# a really sombre day



## johnthomp (Jul 28, 2010)

this morning i went in my shop with me brew and put me radio on as usual giveing it a few slaps to stop the crackling noise from the speakers and chucked a chunk of mild steel up in my classic raglan little john lathe to begin boring out for a new project takeing my time in low box with the variamatic belt drive at low started opening the centre hole up to 20mm nice and steady 
  about 5 minutes into this just heared a really loud bang constant clunking followed by a horrifying grinding sound as i shut the machine down and now first gear doesent work just grinds and theres 20 gear teeth been spat out the bottom of the machine onto the counter 
   i feel as if ive just witnessed the death of a close freind and feel really fed up but i think ill try to find out what went wrong this evening i just hope she can be repaired and tonights strip down will only be open heart surgery and not an autopsy 
   if it is just a case of a couple of gears stripped is it an expensive job to get them remade or reclaim welded and hobbed because i sure as hell cant afford to replace the lathe ill take some photos of my findings to show my progress and fault findings in the hope that someone here may be able to point me in the right direction 
  thanks for reading this thread and any feedback will be more than appreciated 
  john :fan: :'(


----------



## metalmuncher (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi John, I'm sorry to hear what happened to your lathe, I can't help with parts but I know how you feel. Its like something happening to your best mate. The thought of it happening to my myford just doesn't bear thinking about. Hope you can soon find out what went wrong and soon get it sorted. I drop in to your website quite often and find a tip or two I hadn't thought of before, keep up the good work. 
          Regards Keith.


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 28, 2010)

and heres the diagnosis after dismantleing the entire machine i have discovered its the 3 main gears lost teeth and it looks like its happened before i bought it and been botched together sort of its been done in the right method just a half cocked attempt 
  if i go through it in sequence of drive from the motor finishing at the spindle the first gear wich is the smallest has lost 5 teeth this is 1 3/4" dia wich is quite a fair ammount lost the next gear it was running on has lost 6 teeth wich is roughly 5" diametre and the third has lost 1 tooth wich is also 5" diametre 
   the way it looksto have been fixed before is that someone has reclaimed enough metal on the gears with an arc welder to cut new teeth on it 
   then not sent the gear off to be properly hobbed instead theyve filed new teeth into it with god knows what 
   i have a professional engine block welder man with codes liveing over the street who owes me a couple of favours and said he would reclaim the metal as a favour returned 
   i was just wondering would it be expensive to get the gears re hobbed after this has been done or does anyone here in the uk have a mk 1 raglan little john lathe thats not in a museum but preferably being broken for spares 
  i will put pictures on later when my missus gets back due to me being thick i cant get pictures onto fotobucket and i cant set links up neither im sure she will do it if i cook her a nice supper ;D :


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 28, 2010)

well heres how i got on http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/amd47/SDC17499.jpg[/img]]
	

  heres me little beauty 
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/amd47/SDC17503.jpg[/img]]
	

 as i made the first insicion
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/amd47/SDC17508.jpg[/img]]
	

 heres the first and third gears all in one lump wich were complete sods to get out of that houseing (the least of my worries )
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/amd47/SDC17507.jpg[/img]]
	

 and heres the second gear wich sat on top of the other lump with the spindle shaft running through it 
  does it seem possible to repair the teeth on these items or should i start a biblical quest to find someone who can recreate them from scratch 
  im now completely stumped what would you do 
  reguards john


----------



## Blogwitch (Jul 28, 2010)

John,

I really sympathise with you. Having gears go on an old machine is no joke, especially as spares aren't usually readily available.

The first thing to do is find the DP of the gear, search about and ask questions on this and other sites to see if anyone has the info you require.

John Stevenson's site might be a place to start, advertise for spare second hand gears or if not available, info about the headstock gears themselves. Don't get confused with change gears, I know for a fact that your lathe can use two different DP's for change gears, depending if it has a quick change box or not, and they might not be the same DP as the headstock gears.

http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

I have repaired many a gear, and it is usually a fairly easy job, if there is just one or two teeth missing. Where you have a bank of teeth missing, as you have, it becomes more difficult, especially if one repaired gear runs against another one that has been repaired. The slight mismatch starts up a chain reaction that usually means it will fail again sometime in the future, if not straight away.

Once you have the gear information for definite, then you can start to think about doing repairs. 

For the large gear I would suggest either buying a standard gear of the correct DP and tooth count, and machine it and your original so that the new gear can be fitted to the original gear core, or buy the correct cutter and fix a blank around the original core and re cut the gears. This second way might be a lot cheaper if you can find someone to cut it for you.

For the small one, I would buy a gear and do the repair with that, or if you buy a cutter, make a new blank and cut the teeth, then fit it to the original core. For the large one with just one tooth missing, you should get away with a couple of studs profiled to the tooth shape.

Once you start to mess about with heavy heat on gears, you can totally change the properties of the metal, usually for the worse. If replacing the outer ring, I would actually do it with fixings rather than sweating it on. By sweating on, you could end up with high stresses, and it could just crack off. By using fixings, there should be no stresses set up, and it could be removed at a later date for replacement if needed.

I don't know where you live in the UK, but there are a lot of members on here from our small island, and maybe someone fairly local can come to your assistance, if it doesn't cost them anything other than a little of their time.

Bogs


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jul 28, 2010)

I can't help with any advice...but I do feel for you. Those pictures of the gears were upsetting. Best of luck. It doesn't mean much...but I've broken or lost a favorite tool or 'toy' here and there. It's sad.


----------



## Twmaster (Jul 28, 2010)

The problem you are running into is partly why I decided to sell my 100 year old Rivett Precision #8 lathe. There would be much trouble finding replacement parts when I finally broke something. 

I hope your welder friend can help you repair those gears.


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 29, 2010)

now here comes the kick in the teeth 
  i spent all day looking for someone with the bottle to even attempt the task of repairing the gears and would u believe it i found an ex raglan engineer who still repairs and remachines the entire gear by cutting back and reshelling the old one then hobbing it back up i fealt a rather unnerving bowel movement when he hit me with the quote at £100 per cog and i have 3 thats £300 to kick off with :redface2: but they do come back like brand new with a 12 month guarantee Thm:
  now comes the best of the news while i was on this fellas website i thought id just browse through the private machines for sale and hey presto theres an immaculate machine there exactly like the one i got but with all the trimmings and in far better condition than mine for £275 what do i do :noidea: 
   in secret i havent told the missus how much its gonna cost either way but im seriously thinking of getting a small loan off the provident to cover this venture in secret but i really want the new one if i do this how the hell am i gonna hide another lathe or even sneak it past her in the first place :hDe:
  aint it charming :big:  or the third option relies on waiting till i have saved enough money for it then going back to see if its still there but i can put a pretty safe bet on murphys law stateing that as soon as i have the cash for it i wont be able to find anything like my lathe again :wall: 

  reguards john


----------



## tel (Jul 29, 2010)

Just go for it - you can mop up the blood later.


----------



## Kermit (Jul 29, 2010)

'Tis always easier to beg for forgivness, than to pry out permission.

Do it, then say 'sorry'/ 

Kermit


----------



## crankshafter (Jul 29, 2010)

What the heck. A night or two in the separate bedroom is worth it :big: woohoo1
Go for it.
CS


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 29, 2010)

ssshhhhh dont let her know ive got a meeting with the man from the provident on monday :hDe:
  if that fails im just gonna have to try and get an interim payment from me accident claim via my traumatic stress therapist on the grounds of boosting my self worth coz i got him wrapped round me little finger aswell Thm:
  i thought these academic types r supposed to be smart anyway :shrug:


----------



## hopeless (Jul 30, 2010)

Mate do what I do when I need to get something past her ....give her some $$$ and tell her to buy herself something nice then while she is out get the item and put in she, sprinkle oil and grease on it .  When she does see it just tell her its been the for quite a while :big:
If it fails ???well sleeping alone for a few day/weeks ...look at it as r&r. Just hide the knives for a while.
Cheers 
Pete


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 30, 2010)

its not just knives i gotta hide last time i bought anything for that workshop she battered me with the little milk pan in retalliation when she went out i crushed the pan in the 6ton press i just bought and she knows theres only one lathe in there so im buggered for that id have to replace it like for like and hide the old one in the secret basement thingy i built under the shed lol the entrance for that is behind the shed under the cement mixer my little shed is like some kind of bunker at the moment
  but at the moment she knows something is not right with me she keeps asking whats up with me as in her words ( im walking round with a face like a smashed crab)
  ive favourited all the relevant pages on this computer that has anything to do with the lathe and the other ive seen in the hope she will see it my way stickpoke
  you never know i might just get lucky she knows the lathe is broke and what it means to me *knuppel2*
  but if you never hear from me again you atleast know what ive done and what happened :fan:
  reguard john :toilet:


----------



## Ned Ludd (Jul 30, 2010)

If she notices that you have an extra lathe, just tell her you are repairing it for a friend. If she notices it is still there three years later, just tell her he did not want it back. As they say "job done".
Ned


----------



## SAM in LA (Jul 30, 2010)

Ned Ludd  said:
			
		

> If she notices that you have an extra lathe, just tell her you are repairing it for a friend. If she notices it is still there three years later, just tell her he did not want it back. As they say "job done".
> Ned



 :big: My wife is to smart for that to work. :big:

SAM


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 30, 2010)

ive just spent the last 3 hours putting the gearbox back together in such a fashion that it just works in high speed meaning my speed range is now just from 800rpm up to 2250rpm so heres me plan im gonna build a few little engines and flog them to get the money for the new machine and since im on the dole its not as if im short of time to do this now is it might even make a few silencers for ic engines like the one off thing i made and got £20 for on ebay lol its gonna be a mission 
  reguards john :idea:


----------



## Artie (Jul 30, 2010)

Hi John, I think this is your best plan to date.... ;D

I would show the good lady of the house the real problem, do this to raise some funds as you suggest and SHE might suggest spending some money..... they can often surprise us.....

Good luck mate. Ive just finished a major repair on mine last night, it feels good to resurrect a machine. I do a bit of it as almost all my stuff is 'old iron', all nicely made and feels good and REPAIRABLE.

The shaft which along the length of the bed which drives the autofeed wore the housing for the autofeed gear box as the gears tried to spread. Bored the housing, fitted bushes and re cut the gear set. Fired it up last night works a treat.

Good luck mate.

Rob


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 31, 2010)

artie 
  i just got it working last night on high gear but o rebuilding the headstock shaft bearings i decided to get evrything near surgicaly clean then repack all my bearings and moveing parts with VHT lithium grease got from a garage they use it for packing cv joints and wheelbearing houseings 
  started her up for the first time since her little paddy and she was amazeingly quiet and true i still want that other one ive seen its too good to pass up on at that price and ive now discovered its only that cheap due to a broken bracket wich can easily be recast in aluminium or at a push welded back together 
  im off in there now to make a new shim for the screwcutting drive reverse gear that someone made out of soft brass in the past 
  a good chance to butcher a chunk of phosphor bronze for a reasonable cause and to think i nearley weighed me brass offcut bucket in last week for a few quid 
   its true what they say about sods law
  reguards john


----------

