# Ac-dc tig welder



## ausdier (Sep 19, 2012)

woohoo1 WOO HOO woohoo1
My latest new toy, a 200AMP MITECH AC DC TIG ARC INVERTER WELDER.
Thm: Thm: Thm: Thm: Thm: Thm: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Cogsy (Sep 19, 2012)

Congrats! I'm sure it's a excellent machine. I know what all those words say on the control knobs, but I have absolutely no idea what they mean... Think I'll stick to my little gasless mig and clunky old stick welder .


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## kvom (Sep 20, 2012)

Now for the gas.


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## Herbiev (Sep 20, 2012)

A great looking welder but as Kvom mentioned " now for the gas". In Australia BOC gases has a monopoly and can charge and do charge ridiculous prices. The smallest cylinder cost over $100 per year to RENT and over $100 per refill and if you do a bit of welding they don't last long at all. There does not seem to be a cheaper solution for the pensioner/ hobbyist.


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## Dinkum (Sep 20, 2012)

Nice find.  

Regarding gas for hobbyists, apparently you can buy disposable bottles now - so that there isn't a rental cost.   It's probably worth checking out if you don't plan on using much gas.


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## ausdier (Sep 20, 2012)

Weeeeeeeeell I have my own bottle  so rental isn't much of an issue. ;D


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## starbolin (Sep 20, 2012)

Nice looking.  Adequate amps and all the little knobs to twiddle.  Lots of fun ahead for you.


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## ausdier (Sep 21, 2012)

Will post some pictures when I get good.
See you in about a year or so..........Rof}Rof}Rof}


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## Herbiev (Sep 21, 2012)

Who tests and fills your gas bottle?


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## ausdier (Sep 23, 2012)

They are on the exchange program. You just go into the depot and pay for a full bottle of gas, so when they need testing they get done by the parent company.


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## Herbiev (Sep 24, 2012)

Is this exchange program through BOC gas ?


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## Jones (Sep 24, 2012)

I bought my argon bottle from SpeedGas and they do refills for me  no rental costs.


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 24, 2012)

A nice addition to the shop. I dream of having a tig welder but have not made it a priority . I came close to getting a Harbor freight dc only but opted out. 

My gasless wire feed does ok. TIG is so much cleaner and so much more control slower but nicer. And a little more skill to learn. 
you just need to learn to make one tiny puddle then repeat over and over. get a rhythm going sing a song and stick to the beat. 

I learned TIG in USAF tech school stainless steel inconell  magnesium titanium  aluminum  you just need the right settings and the right filler. TIG will do any thin material and any critical root pass. 
Tin


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 24, 2012)

this one looks nice for $850 US but the duty cyle is pretty low


http://www.eastwood.com/tig-welders-eastwood-tig-ac-dc-welder.html
Tin


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## johan jorez (Sep 24, 2012)

hi , 
here in belgium i was pay one time 150 and approx 100 for replacement bottle 
when i dont need no gas annymore i get my 150 back 

greetz


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## winklmj (Sep 25, 2012)

Tin Falcon said:


> this one looks nice for $850 US but the duty cyle is pretty low
> 
> 
> http://www.eastwood.com/tig-welders-eastwood-tig-ac-dc-welder.html
> Tin



I got the Eastwood tig 200 about a month ago. I'm an absolute beginner. Have not overloaded the machine yet--I either dip a tungsten or the torch itself gets too hot first. 

Argon bottle was $175 purchased. Exchange for refills run about $35-40 for a 125cf tank. Found another shop that says $22 for exchange to try next time I'm empty.


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## ausdier (Sep 26, 2012)

I got some zirconiated tungsten electrodes today. A 10 pack of 1mm, 1.6mm and 2.4mm each so I should be good to donate some money to the power company on the weekend.


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## WSMkid (Oct 2, 2012)

Man... At school our linkin all I can Change is DCEN AC DCEP and then amps. I wouldn't have any idea what to do with all thows.  I have been layin down some good lookin stacks on alu and just today I moved to Steel...whole new world!! No one has ever tryed tig (and been good) at school so now that I'm gettin better every one wants to try so now when I'm ready to start  I look down and some one has used all my stock I had cut the day befor and was diggin around with the tungsten... at that point I'm no longer friendly.. 

 Would you care to explain what some of thows adjustments are?

 Thanks 

 GJ


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## ausdier (Oct 3, 2012)

Hi GJ,

I hope these explinations are of some help.

1. Initial slope, time 0-2s. This is for the time it takes to get up to the welding amps that have been set.
2. Peak current, 20-200A. This is for setting the upper limit of power for the weld.
3. Background Current. This is the low-level current needed to maintain the arc.
4. Final slope, time 0-5s. This is the time it takes to stop the arc by reducing the amps down.
5. Arc force. This is more for Stick Welding ( MMA ).
6. Pulse frequency, 1-70Hz. This shapes the weld bead by narrowing the arc cone with increased frequency.
7. AC balance, 10% - 90%. This controls the amount of positive or negative electrode time on the tungsten.
8. Clean width, 20% - 80%. This controls the cleaning of the area that is being welding.( Removal of the oxide )
9. Post flow, time:2-10s. This is the time gas flows at the end of a weld to keep oxygen out of the weld puddle.


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## WSMkid (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank you I didnt know there was so much a person could adjust but all seam so imporant and how could I live with out one!

 Thank you again

 GJ


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 5, 2012)

These controls are about tuning the weld to the metal . Ultimately improves weld quality and productivity. Tig is mostly used for critical weld applications. It is the most expensive of the welding processes mostly due to labor cost. these controls help prevent the need for rework. saves time and materials.
Tin


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## trumpy81 (Oct 5, 2012)

Herbiev said:


> Who tests and fills your gas bottle?



Herbiev, Argon Gas is available from Pony Gas Argon on eBay, they are based in Manly Vale, Sydney. The sellers eBay name is tim9334.

You buy your own cylinder from him and it comes full of argon, for $195.00 AUD. You have to post the bottle back to them for refills. $60.00 AUD to refill the bottle including return postage, which isn't too bad.

The bottle is fairly small, almost the same size as a D size bottle, but it should last quite a while in the home workshop, depending on your welding needs.

I plan to purchase one when my BOC bottle is empty. I'm currently paying approx. $180.00 AUD per year just for the rental 

HTH

*Pony Gas Argon*

*Pony Gas Argon*


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## Steve J (Oct 5, 2012)

Tin,you can convert your 110 wire machine to tig for steel and stainless ( no high frequency ). First of all back out wire and tie it off. then unplug wire feed motor. then swap leads to whip for straight polarity. then remove nozzle and modify gas diffuser. drill and tap on the side for a setscrew to hold the tungsten( this will probably ruin it for wire so make sure you have a spare). then install proper tungsten put it back in gun put on nozzle and its ready. hope i didnt forget anything. Went a school at the lincoln factory and they showed that to us as an unauthorized factory modification.Steve


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## Steve J (Oct 5, 2012)

Forgot one thing. Change over gas to argon. Steve


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## bhowden (Oct 5, 2012)

>>>Convert MIG to TIG

While a skilled welder might be able to demonstrate it, you will be less than happy with the final product.  MIG is constant Voltage so the current control is varied by how fast the wire is fed into the arc.  Faster wire means shorter arc which means more heat.  TIG is a constant Current process so you can have minor variation in arc length without changing the heat of the arc.  Stick is also constant current.  On older welders this was done by saturating the transformer.  With inverters it is all electronic magic now.

Brian


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## ausdier (Oct 6, 2012)

Yay melted some aluminium today.
This is 2mm thick pieces.
A little more practice and more playing with the settings should get better.


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## trumpy81 (Oct 6, 2012)

ausdier, it looks like you're getting the hang of it, just a little too much heat (amps) as attested to by the excessive penetration. Nice bead though, except in a few small spots, I'm guessing that maybe they were the result of repositioning your hand/s during the weld. It's a good idea to do a practice run without actually welding so that you can get an idea of how you will move your hand/s and torch during the weld. It can really pay off on important jobs.

If you haven't found it yet, weldingtipsandtricks.com is a great place to pick up info on TIG welding. Jodie also sells a product called the TIG Finger, which is very useful on big jobs, and has a lot of videos on YouTube.

Above all else, practice practice practice, that's what I do ....


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## ausdier (Oct 6, 2012)

Hey Andy, Yeah I know practice, practice, practice, then practice a bit more.
Each of those runs are only 50 mm long each and done with MIG wire at the moment, I will get around to getting some propper filler soon but had a bit of spare MIG wire left over from some other work that I did reacently.
These are my first ally runs since my TIG course about 10 years ago.
The photos probably are a bit hard to see but the penno only just breaks through from the other side by about 1mm in spots.
Not to bad for a Fitter and Turner.
I got a lot of practice at MIG when I worked as a welder then as a welding supervisor but not TIG, ( That's about to change ).
Already have an order for a battery box, a custom dash, an underbonnet cold air scoop, some camper trailer draws, 2 boats to be fixed and everything I want to do for MEEEEE!!!:wall:


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 6, 2012)

> I got a lot of practice at MIG when I worked as a welder



I had the good fortune of being trained as a machinist welder. by Uncle Sam (USAF  training. ) we trained in oxyacetylene welding  electric arc and tig. Nice labs.
I also did some production Mig welding. our customer thought we had a robot doing the welds. 
Tin


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## MuellerNick (Oct 6, 2012)

> 6. Pulse frequency, 1-70Hz. This shapes the weld bead by narrowing the arc cone with increased frequency.



Pulse frequency is something different than AC-frequency.
The AC-frequency is the one that narrows the arc at higher frequencies (mine goes up to 300 Hz). Works only in AC.

The pulse frequency is just the frequency with what the peak current and the background current alters. This works both for AC and DC mode.
Pulse frequencies above 10 Hz are of very little use. Useful range is 1 to 6 Hz. The pulse also shapes the AC-frequency (if in AC-mode).

If you have pulse, it would be useful if you could adjust the duty cycle.


Nick


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## trumpy81 (Oct 6, 2012)

ausdier, it sounds like you and I have similar experiences. I worked as a production welder (MIG) for a few years but never got the chance to learn TIG. I bought my TIG about 12 months ago but I haven't done too much of anything in the workshop since then. Oh, and I didn't tell the relies or friends about my purchase so I don't have any jobs but my own ... 

I do have quite a few projects in mind, one being a 1965 Triumph motorcycle frame that needs modification and repair. One day, I will actually get it done ...


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## ausdier (Oct 7, 2012)

MuellerNick said:


> Pulse frequency is something different than AC-frequency.
> The AC-frequency is the one that narrows the arc at higher frequencies (mine goes up to 300 Hz). Works only in AC.
> 
> The pulse frequency is just the frequency with what the peak current and the background current alters. This works both for AC and DC mode.
> ...


 
My mistake even though it is called Pulse Frequency I had a better look at the machine and not just the photo and it goes up to 200 Hz which on this machine I am sure controls the weld size.


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## Steve J (Oct 28, 2012)

check home shop machinist issue 2007 bonus issue (volume26 number 7 ) for more info on converting wire welder to tig.


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## Robsmith (Nov 17, 2012)

Jones said:


> I bought my argon bottle from SpeedGas and they do refills for me  no rental costs.


 I asked them about doing the purchase bottle idea with oxy / acetelene as well and they said those bottles can be left outside and rust so become time bombs. no go !


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## Entropy455 (Nov 17, 2012)

Rob, it sounds like someone told you a fib, in order to keep you hooked on the bottle renting scam. I promise you that rental bottles take just as much abuse, or even more abuse, than owner bottles.

US welding gas bottles must be hydrostatically tested every five years. If a bottle has reduced strength from corrosion, or metal fatigue, it will fail hydro &#8211; and the bottle will be removed from service.

Acetylene bottles are low pressure &#8211; about 200 psig is typical. Acetylene bottles are visually inspected by the gas fillers every time the bottle is refilled. The lead plugs are inspected, which are designed to melt and intentionally release the acetylene during a fire &#8211; which is a proven explosion preventative measure. Also, the bottles are submerged in water during the filling process, to keep them cool, because filling Acetyylene bottles produces dangerous heat that must be removed. (Which is more wet than the rain).

US welding bottles are DOT approved, which means they are designed to survive transportation accidents at freeway speeds. Picture a fully loaded gas bottle delivery truck smashing into a bridge support, resulting in welding bottles flying all over the road at freeway speeds. Then the bottles get hit by other cars moving at freeway speeds. This type of accident statistically happens once or twice a year in US &#8211; without issue.

The biggest problem I have with &#8220;owner&#8221; bottles is that when the bottle comes due for hydro, the welding shop makes the customer pay the hydro recertification fees. I&#8217;ll eat the cost every now and then, as we all have to do our part in supporting the economy. However when I exchange bottles, I check the hydro expiration date. If you are accepting a bottle that expires in less than a year, you better use the gas quickly, or be prepared to pay a hydro fee. There is a remote chance that the bottle will actually fail hydro, in which case you eat the replacement cost of the bottle. Thus if you are an occasional gas user, request a different bottle with a more recent hydro certification. If the welding store is unwilling to work with you, find another store. (You know the game).

I have an old oxygen bottle out in the garage where the original hydro stamp is dated 1943, right next to a USN property stamp. I live in a Navy community, and when the old ships are decommissioned, the Navy releases their welding bottles to the public market (they auction them off in bulk to the welding gas companies). It&#8217;s pretty cool. Point being that this bottle has had the crap beat out of it for the past 69 years - 40 of those years by US Navy Sailors - and the bottle is still passing hydro just fine.


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## Robsmith (Nov 18, 2012)

Entropy455 you are in the USA......It's totally different here in Australia. Particularly in the 'nanny state' N.S.W.  I grew up with a dad that was a panel beater (auto body repair man) He taught me all the safety stuff about acetylene and oxy.  NOW I tried to buy the bottles and the speedgas salesman told me that bunk I quoted.  I could agree with the rusty bottom stuff as I've seen bottles partially buried in the dirt from just sitting there for so long. That's what the salesman was talking about.  As for the falling off trucks...this is true. The fire department has deemed that a dropped bottle has to be treated as a volatile explosive.  It happened not too long ago. A small bottle fell off a plumbers truck and skipped down the road. When the fire brigade got there. Along with the police and rescue. They cordoned off a 500 yard area around the bottle. Yes that blocked both double lanes of the road way. The bottle was observed for 8 hours before they sent in a bloke in a flack suit to pick it up. !!!!!
By law and insurance validity I am supposed to keep my oxy acetylene bottles in another shed 50 yards away from the dwelling or workshop.
I said that NSW was a nanny state...you can see why.  You should see some of the road rules and auto construction/modification rules. that's another story. As for buying bottles  Speedgas is THE only one in the country. BOC has the monopoly and they rent the bottles for $14 a month and charge amazing amounts for the gas inside...an E size bottle of argon costs $250.00 for the gas and $168.00 for the bottle plus you gotta lie to them about the storage. OH yes I forgot the transport. You must have a truck with a cradle/cage. You are forbidden to put it in the back of a pick-up or trailer. So there's the delivery charge as well.


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## Entropy455 (Nov 18, 2012)

Things in the US are also slowing moving towards what I&#8217;ve coined as &#8220;the Thoughtless-Thought-Processes.&#8221;

Example: a while back I attempted to transport an empty oxygen bottle (key word: empty) on a Washington State Ferry, and I was ordered to depart the boat. They said I could not transport the oxygen bottle, because it was an unauthorized flammable fuel container. Due note that if it were compressed argon, nitrogen, C02, etc, it would&#8217;ve been ok.

This chaps my butt for several reasons. One, the oxygen bottle is DOT approved, and the Washington State Ferries are advertised as &#8220;An Extension of Washington State&#8217;s Highway System&#8221; &#8211; thus there is no logical reason why the bottle would be any more dangerous on a boat moving 10 mph, than a truck moving70 mph.

The bottle was empty. I even opened the valve for the guy, and the bottle barely made a puff. He said there could still be residual oxygen in the bottle, and that&#8217;s a fire hazard. I laughed and told the guy he better not strike a match, because we&#8217;re currently surrounded by about 21% oxygen. He gave me the deer in the headlights look. . . .

Then I futilely attempted to explain to the guy that oxygen is not classified as a &#8220;combustible fuel&#8221; &#8211; but rather it is oxygen that other materials combust with. He said, &#8220;If I hold a lit match into a stream of oxygen, the oxygen is not going to burn?&#8221; I said that&#8217;s right &#8211; the match will burn at a greater rate, and the excess oxygen will blow right by and be just fine. I got the deer in the headlights look again.

On a positive note, it&#8217;s still legal for me to possess two #5 acetylene bottles out in the garage (I don&#8217;t like running out of gas). I acknowledge that #5 acetylene bottles are illegal in most parts of the world. The vast majority of acetylene accidents happen from improper storage. Acetylene is very unstable under pressure, but it can be stabilized under pressure when dissolved in acetone. The top 1/7 of the bottle is empty space, and if you set the bottle on its side, the acetylene/acetone solution will fill this space and become unstable &#8211; then a small impulse event (like dropping the bottle out of the car) will result in a bottle explosion. That being said, you CAN beat the crap outof an acetylene bottle &#8211; provided the acetylene/acetone solution remains suspended within the 6/7-ths portion of the bottle that&#8217;s filled with fire-brick-type filler (i.e. NEVER ever set or transport an acetylene bottle on its side)

That being said - there are much more dangerous things in this world that are not regulated. Personally, I think Australia has gone off the deep end in its regulation of oxy-acetylene. . . .  Just one man&#8217;s opinion.


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## Entropy455 (Nov 18, 2012)

This is what can happen when you improperly transport a small acetylene bottle &#8211; i.e. laying it on its side. (Source: slcfireinvestigation.com)











These look like new #5 acetylene bottles. Keep them upright! (Source: norriscylinder.com)


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## Entropy455 (Nov 18, 2012)

There is a disproportionate number of people killed every year by running gasoline generators indoors, then are killed by exploding acetylene cylinders - and I mean a disproportionate number! That does not even include deaths by electrocution via improper grounding of generators.

Point being - acetylene bottles, like gasoline generators, are dangerous when misused.

Over-the-top government regulation is not necessarily the best solution, in either case.


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## MuellerNick (Nov 19, 2012)

> This is what can happen when you improperly transport a small acetylene bottle &#8211; i.e. laying it on its side.



No problem with laying them on the side during transport. At least here. They only have to be used upright. And after laying them on the side be kept upright for some hours (number escaped me).


Nick


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## Entropy455 (Nov 19, 2012)

When you set an acetylene bottle on its side, the liquid acetone/acetylene solution will seep into the top portion of the bottle (where it&#8217;s not supposedto be).

If you stand the bottle back up and attempt to use it without enough time for the liquid acetone/acetylene solution to settle back down, you&#8217;ll draw acetone into the regulator, and your oxy-acetylene flame will turn purple. Even under normal use, if you attempt to consume more than 1/7 the bottle&#8217;s volume per hour, the acetylene will not have enough time to disassociate from the acetone - and you&#8217;ll get the same purple flame.

But most importantly - when liquid acetylene/acetone is present within the top of the bottle, the acetylene becomes "sensitive to shock." In the picture below, it is not known whether or not the guy dropped the cylinder while unloading it from the car, or if he simply set it down on the ground a little too hard. Either way, he was blown to bits.  Thus regardless of what your local and state laws might say &#8211; setting an acetylene bottle on its side is dangerous.


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