# casting accidcent



## Maxine (Jul 24, 2011)

I had on safety gear from head to ankle. Goggles and face shield, alumanized nomex hood, jacket and pants, welding gloves and leather sleeves etc. But I was wearing only tennis shoes since it was just going to be a "quick pour". Of course not a single drop of aluminum got on any of my safety gear but as you can see my foot was a different story. I'll spare you pics of my foot. The good news is that the plastic surgeons were able to save all my toes and graft skin back over both the top and bottom of my foot. The lesson I learned was no matter how little of a job you are doing take the extra couple of minutes to put on ALL of the safety gear!


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## JorgensenSteam (Jul 24, 2011)

I have heard some ominous stories about casting spills.

I was using a cutting torch when I was about 16, and had on lace-up hiking boots.
A blob of molten metal went down into my shoe and lodged itself on top of my toes.

I can say from experience that you cannot unlace a boot fast enough when you have a molten blob of metal inside of it.

I had a severe burn between two toes, but I pay attention to my shoes these days.

Glad you saved your foot.
You have certainly saved other people's feet too by posting this warning.

Thanks,

Pat J


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## Paulsv (Jul 24, 2011)

I have a pair of heavy chrome tanned work boots, with a slice out of the top of one boot, to remnd me of the importance of safety gear. My chain saw cut through the heavy leather, was stopped by the steel toe and snagged the top of my sock, but I didn't get a scratch. If I had Ben wearing soft shoes, I'd have cut my foot in half.


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## Ken I (Jul 25, 2011)

I was flame cutting through a heavy conveyor chain and stepped onto a large blob of red hot chain link - it went straight through the soft rubber sole of my trainer and the first thing I knew was when it was burning between the balls of my feet - like Pat said - you can't get the laces off fast enough.

You get my sympathy vote.

Get well soon.

Ken


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## Blue_Rock (Jul 25, 2011)

I think I'd do well for the hot foot stupidity prize. A long time ago when I was young and more stupid, I was arc welding wearing shorts and thongs (flip flops, not the underwear variety) and a bit of slag dropped from the work and lodged between my toes. Needless to say, I did my version of the hot foot dance, kicked off the thong and freed the smouldering lump trapped between my toes. I got a nasty burn and learnt my lesson... it's stictly long pants and leather shoes when welding for me now.


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## bearcar1 (Jul 25, 2011)

Without mentioning names or directing my comments towards any single individual, one would have to be a complete moron to have taken the time to don all of the REQUIRED safety gear only to bypass putting on protective covering for the most likely area to be struck with splashed or overpoured metal. Same can be said for the folks that ride go-fast motorcycles in shorts, no helmet, no shirt, and sandals. Not very smart. When they hit the pavement, and after they stop sliding, there won't be enough of them left to matter much. My father was a blacksmith and a welder for 45 yrs. and he related many stories to me about how the safety equipment he wore did their job and prevented him from harms way on quite a few occasions. Safety first....ALWAYS !!

Jim B.


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## Maxine (Jul 27, 2011)

Actually your feet are no where near the pour when it is happening. The crucible is held on a grasp mounted on the end of a long horizontal pole so that you are always several feet away from the molten aluminum stream.  The mistake I made was after the pour was complete and the crucible set back safe in it's refractory stand I stepped over to shut off the gas to the kiln. While focusing on reaching for the kiln valve I accidentally kicked the stand that held the mold full of cooling but still partially molten aluminum and it sloshed over.

The remainder of your post does not dignify a direct response. I'll simply share this thought; accidents should be shared as painful lessons learned in order to help prevent others from making similar mistakes. Negative comments such as yours simply prevent others from sharing embarrassing mistakes and thus prevent learning which causes further injuries.


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## steamer (Jul 27, 2011)

Maxine,

I wish to thank you for finding the courage to come here and tell your story. It is a lesson that others can follow, and that was brave of you to do.

I appreciate that fact.

Welcome to HMEM , and I hope you get well soon.

Dave
aka "Steamer"


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## JorgensenSteam (Jul 27, 2011)

The safety posts on HMEM have saved me from many a bad accident.

I appreciate very much people sharing safety info such as this.

To me this is the great thing about forums, you can save others from so much grief.

Thanks,

Pat J


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## ddmckee54 (Jul 28, 2011)

It's not just casting that is dangerous, brazing, silver soldering and even soft soldering can be dangerous from a molten drip. Back when I was still young and stupid, as opposed to being much older and hopefully wiser now, I was working as an auto body repairman. I was brazing part of a rocker panel on a '72 Chevy pickup when a drop of brass rolled onto my blue jeans and proceeded burn through my pants and travel down the top of my boot. You would be amazed how fast you can unlace an 8" lace-up steel-toed boot when you have some serious motivation.

We've got to maintain constant awareness of our surroundings, it only takes a fraction of a second for the situation to go from an enjoyable pastime to a disaster. 

Obviously you've learned from this accident and with luck the rest of us will learn from it too.

Don


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## Ken I (Jul 28, 2011)

Most accidents - and we've all had them - often fall into the "I should have seen that coming" category.

There are a zillion ways to screw up and if you know a fraction of them - you are experienced.

Good judgement comes with experience - experience is the outcome of bad judgement.

The purpose of sharing our tales of woe is to help others not do so and to point out that these things really do happen ie get the experience without the bad judgement.

Maxine thanks for the post.

Regards,
      Ken


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## Mosey (Jul 28, 2011)

bearcar1  said:
			
		

> Without mentioning names or directing my comments towards any single individual, one would have to be a complete moron to have taken the time to don all of the REQUIRED safety gear only to bypass putting on protective covering for the most likely area to be struck with splashed or overpoured metal. Same can be said for the folks that ride go-fast motorcycles in shorts, no helmet, no shirt, and sandals. Not very smart. When they hit the pavement, and after they stop sliding, there won't be enough of them left to matter much. My father was a blacksmith and a welder for 45 yrs. and he related many stories to me about how the safety equipment he wore did their job and prevented him from harms way on quite a few occasions. Safety first....ALWAYS !!
> 
> Jim B.


The first time I slid down the pavement in full leathers I thought it was kinda neat. Not a scratch. Except for the faceshield, which was scraped down it's entire length. Guess why I always wear a fullface helmet ever after.


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## coffeebean16 (Jul 28, 2011)

everyone learns lessons, some people do it the hard way. 
thank you for sharing your lesson so i may choose the easy way.

 i was thinking heavy leather boots with a steel to for casting. should i be wearing steel foot covers too?

thanx

dave


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## doubleboost (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi
I have done quite alot of casting (mainly bronze)
Lifting a full crucible from the furnace is the scary bit for me .
It is heavy and directly above your feet .
I wear leather "rigger type boots" with nomex overalls over the top of them .
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4AgCBAfJQ[/ame]
The bigest scare i had was pouring bronze in to a ingot mould the mould was damp it instantly blew molten metal all over me .
Fortunately the protective gear did its job .
Molten metal takes no prisoners at all .
Thanks for posting your acident if it makes one person more aware that would be great 
John


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## doubleboost (Jul 28, 2011)

One thing i forgot to mention is i ALWAYS have a live hose pipe to hand as well as a bucket of water


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## steamer (Jul 28, 2011)

coffeebean16  said:
			
		

> everyone learns lessons, some people do it the hard way.
> thank you for sharing your lesson so i may choose the easy way.
> 
> i was thinking heavy leather boots with a steel to for casting. should i be wearing steel foot covers too?
> ...



I think a layer of nomex under the steel covers and over the boots would be a good idea....dress in layers


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 28, 2011)

do not put a lot of trust in nomex for protection form moltrn metal .it will not burn but it will melt I have a nomex shirt with holes melted in it. Nomex is designed to protect against flash fire . I have a leather apron with a kevlar layer. Nothing against nomex I wear it almost every day . but know the limits. 
Tin


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## steamer (Jul 28, 2011)

fair enough Tin...I still think layers are a good idea here....how about you more experienced foundry types?

What's the way?

Dave


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## coffeebean16 (Jul 29, 2011)

nomex wont sustain combustion on its own under most conditions, but i dont see it being appropriate here. 
i don't think it would do anything useful with molten metal.

as to kevlar i dont see it being any better under this application. according to 
www2.dupont.com/Kevlar/en_US/assets/.../KEVLAR_Technical_Guide.pdf
page 15 of 32 kevlar will not melt but will decompose at between 800 and 1000 degrees F.
the engineering tool box lists the melting point of aluminum at 1220F. 
just something to consider.

i was thinking of the metal overshoes that the construction guys wear when they use the gas powered compactors. that over a heavy leather and kevlar boot with a steel toe. with aluminized leg protection.
dave


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## doubleboost (Jul 29, 2011)

I think the nomex is giving me a false sense of security
Thick leather is the way to go 
It has worked for years
I actually use propper foundry boots 
John


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## steamer (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you Doubleboost and Coffeebean.  We need to share safety information across the board. That is definitely the intent of the first post of this thread. 

Dave


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## bezalel2000 (Jul 29, 2011)

steamer  said:
			
		

> What's the way?
> 
> Dave



Hi Dave, 
I'm certainly not a foundry professional but I have a few years of experience and for my $0.02 worth, I think key is this

1. Use the techniques and setups you would use if you had to be pouring barefoot an naked. ( you wouldn't take any chances if you were ) then
2. Dress like you know your going to get splashed.

Step 2 is only there as a backup for the unexpected holes in the plan developed in step 1. Like forgetting to preheat metal tools and ingot molds Rule#5 or a clear path to the gas shut off valve Rule#2 (thanks for excellent examples, Doubleboost, Maxine, we can all learn from them)

15 Foundry Hot Work Safety Rules
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=15199.0

For my choice of protection - Its hard to beat leather!
 Boots, chaps, coat and gauntlets, all available from welding suppliers.

My Boots I prefer elastic sided since the most likely path of entry is through the soul when I step on a lose spill - and as someone else already said it takes time to unlace a boot.

Safe Casting

Bez


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 29, 2011)

I would say nomex or other flame resistant clothing under leather. My wife has found industrial grade uniform flame retardant jeans in like new condition at thrift stores. These iMHO are appropriate under leather chaps and apron. An non lace boots something you can slip off quick . I would think aluminum shoe covers would be appropriate. I have co workers that have to do work near the furnaces at Alcoa the have to wear shoe covers. 
Tin


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## Herbiev (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks for sharing your experience with us Maxine. As an aussie I have the "she'll be right attitude" and put safety in second place to the excitement of the pour and the end result. As a result of your post I will definately put safety first :bow:


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## Maxine (Jul 31, 2011)

I received a number of real classy PM's from members after my original post. Thank you for those fellas. All of them wished me well in healing and inquired how it was going. In answer to all that asked about the healing process, the answer is fine. My accident was actually on mother's day a year and a half ago. To be blunt honest it took me that long to work up the nerve to post the embarrassing pics and admit the stupid mistake I made by not putting my boots and boot shields on that day. Luckily for me I still have all my toes and have skin everywhere on my foot thanks to a fine plastic surgeon and some amazing technology growing synthetic skin grafts. The foot may be a little bit ugly looking (hey it is just a foot!) but I can walk on it, even hike and jog on it just fine which is all that counts.

Wear your safety gear and wear it every single time, no matter how small and quick the job is going to be. I hope just one injury is saved for someone, somewhere due to learning from my mistake.

Cheers guys,
Maxi


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## steamer (Aug 1, 2011)

Glad your feeling better Maxine!

Dave


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## The Shootist (Sep 13, 2011)

I haven't heard anyone mention the obvious, but cotton and wool both will not melt, nor burn freely, and are much cheaper any easier to find than exotic safety materials.


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## walnotr (Sep 14, 2011)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> An non lace boots something you can slip off quick . I would think aluminum shoe covers would be appropriate. I have co workers that have to do work near the furnaces at Alcoa the have to wear shoe covers.
> Tin



This brings back memories from years back during a welding class. A fellow student was wearing pull on leather boots. While using a cutting torch a large glob of molten steel dropped right down the top of the boot with the same results as related above. He may have been able get the boot off quicker but it didn't stop the injury. In the same class I became aware or the importance of safety glasses while chipping slag off a weld. It popped off, bounced on my cheek and then the safety glasses. My cheek got a burn but my eye was saved. Without the glasses, I'm sure I would have had an injury. I have had other close calls but other than a few scars here and there all my parts are still attached.

Steve C.


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 14, 2011)

> I haven't heard anyone mention the obvious, but cotton and wool both will not melt, nor burn freely, and are much cheaper any easier to find than exotic safety materials.


While street clothes will offer some degree of protection . safety equipment is safety tested and rated for a reason. 
I attended a blacksmithing class a couple weeks ago the on "safety" equipment required was safety glasses. the preferred attire of almost all students and instructors were jeans and a t shirt. Several of the students had either cotton or leather aprons. No one was hurt.

I have personalty had jeans catch fire while doing hot work I have the scar on my ankle to prove it. 
Street clothes while offering some protection are not safety clothes. !!!
While the cost of safety equipment and clothing may seem high it is cheaper that a run to any Emergency room. 
This is why I mention PPE not street clothes for hot work.
Tin


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## Dan Rowe (Sep 14, 2011)

Tin,
Jeans or more proper dungarees were designed as sturdy work clothes NOT street clothes. And yes I have set mine on fire also at the ankle but I was wearing oil field boots so it took me a bit longer to notice but no damage.

You failed to mention what was the foot wear of the blacksmith class. I have a rule that I will not step in a shop with out work boots. I had to follow that rule in Chama NM and did not enter the shops because of my foot gear. I had to file a few acident reports on the ships and one of the FIRST questions was what type of foot gear was worn.

Dan


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## steamboatmodel (Sep 14, 2011)

A sign in a shop i visited one time said 'Learn from others mistakes, you don't live long enough to make them all"
Regards,
Gerald.


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## excalibus (Sep 14, 2011)

Firstly Maxine, Thankyou very much for sharing this incident with us... It reinforces my belief in planning for safety...

To that end, I have not yet built my furnace, but have begun to aquire the safety equipment I feel will be adequate for the job. I know that if I build the furnace first then I will use it even if I have not got all the safety gear I should use (side effect of bein an aussie I guess)....

These are the boots I have purchased off ebay for wearing when I am going to be smelting...

20-299 Oliver Smelter Boot with Metatarsal guard,Velcro closure

  Flame Retardant Full Grain Leather
  SOFTtrac Heavy Duty Dual Density Rubber Sole
  Heat Resistant To 300º Celcius And Resists Exposure To Most Acids And Chemicals
  COMFORT Cushion Impact Absorption System With PORON Reduces Leg And Lower Back Fatigue
  Wide Profile NATUREform Type 1 Steel Toe Cap, With Comfort Liner Toe Bumper Protection Heavy Duty Kevlar Stitching
  Padded Comfort Collar
  METflex Metatarsal Guard For greater protection
  Entire boot dip tested to 970º Celcius (1778º Fahrenheit) in molten aluminum.
  Alcoa Dip Test
  Suitable for industries such as:  FOUNDRIES/SMELTERS 


The fact the whole boot is dip tested in molten aluminium impressed me to be honest... and I know Oliver make good purpose built boots from my experience in the civil construction industry.

The boot looks like a moonboot almost... but no laces, no elastic, it is designed in a way that basically anything splashing on it will run off, it has an extra layer over the front of the foot that goes down to the steel cap - thats what the metatarsal guard is.

The sole is very thick and dual density - as I said it looks like a moon boot and so it should not get a blow through of moten metal through the sole very quickly either...

FWIW these boots retail are not cheap - nearly 300 bucks or something is the RRP, i got them considerably cheaper off ebay and they were listed as BNIB...

As for the rest of my planned gear, I intend to get a full face and head mask, one that goes over the back of the head as well so you wear it like a helmet... 
Leather full neck guard
Welders long sleeve collarless jacket 
Leather chaps to go over the top of the boots
under the leather chaps will be a pair of work pants - I have to wear full heavy cotton or denim at work so those will suffice as they are fire retardant. under the jacket will be a 100% cotton long sleeve shirt.

Leather welders gloves will protect my hands, but they will be cut down to be long enough to go under the jacket with overlap without going halfway up my arm.

All up I do plan to spend somewhere around 500 - 700 on the full safety kit out for smelting... I see it as a small price to pay to make sure I am not going to come to grief should a spill or mould explosion occur, I think spending a about 1 weeks average wages on this equipment is worth every cent because if I have a small incident, It would cost a lot more than that to remedy the situation let alone the lost income in the meantime...

What price do we put on safety I hear people often say in my work industry... I ask them what price do you think you are worth...


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## The Shootist (Nov 15, 2011)

Dip test?

That's fishy...I work in the foundry industry and anything with moisture in it WILL EXPLODE if dipped in molten metal.

I know of foundries that have EMPTIED 2 ton crucibles because some guy dropped a wooden handled hammer into the melt.


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## doubleboost (Nov 15, 2011)

Hi
Glad to hear you are on the mend

Safety gear is very important

But so is common sense
Any moisture will cause molten metal to explode everywear
All tools pokers stirrers skimmers etc must be pre heated
Damp ingot moulds are a favorite cause of problems
All my safety gear came from ebay at very reasonable prices
You cant beat leather for price
Leather rigger type boots are good but need ch apps to prevent hot bits getting inside them
John


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## pcw (Nov 16, 2011)

since i lost my pinky finger i never weare any jewelry like rings or necklaces when working on something.
how come? was drilling a hole in a wall and the drill got caught. the drill somehow hooked itself to a ring i wore and ripped the pinky right off 
when not working i weare rings on all my fingers (i have left) and a necklace. 
Pascal


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## Troutsqueezer (Nov 16, 2011)

Inquiring minds want to know, what is it that you were casting?


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## Maxine (Nov 17, 2011)

An engine block for a V8 build.


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## bezalel2000 (Nov 18, 2011)

Real nosy beggers (like me) want to see a picture ;D 




 th_wwp

Bez


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## Cogsy (Jul 30, 2012)

Hi everyone,
I did a couple of years work as a hot-dip galvaniser so I thought I'd share a bit of info from when I worked with molten metals.
We were issued elastic sided leather steel toed boots, but the constant heat would shrink the leather and the toe would curl up, making them very uncomfortable. Eventually management supplied thick rubber lace-up boots, with steel toes and a nice thin metal plate embedded in the sole to prevent burn-through if (when) you stepped in a puddle of metal.
For clothes, we got heavy cotton long sleeved shirts and pants mostly, which worked reasonably well for light splashes. Leather aprons were technically available but way too restrictive to be able to do the work we were required to do. 
On one occaision we got to trial very expensive 'fireproof' (we were told) shirts. They were heavy, hot and scratchy to wear, but resisted the small splashes better than cotton, however, I was unfortunate enough to receive a much larger than normal splash to the front of my shirt and it actually ignited and sustained the fire. As it refused to be beaten out and there were no fire extinguishers anywhere nearby, I had to rip the furiously burning shirt over my head to get away from the fire. No major injury but the shirt was totally destroyed and I refused to wear another of those.
Minor burns were an almost everyday occurance, major injuries weren't all that rare, and on more than one occaision I had to literally run for my life, so I'm very wary about dealing with molten metal of any kind anymore.
But I do have this weird desire to cast some ali for a project I'm thinking about...
Stay safe.
Regards,
Cogsy.


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## abby (Aug 7, 2012)

bezalel2000 said:


> My Boots I prefer elastic sided since the most likely path of entry is through the soul
> Bez


Faith , a garlic necklace , and a crucifix are the best protection 
Sorry Bez.
Might I just add that a probably overlooked source of moisture is sweat.
After pouring my moulds any surplus metal is poured into an ingot mould , which I always pre-heat near the furnace .
After a busy casting session a drop of sweat fell into one of the ingot cavities.
As the molten brass covered it a large amount was ejected several feet in all directions.
Fortunately no injuries.
Now I am off to do some casting.


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## skyline1 (Aug 7, 2012)

From experience running my own small foundry I have found that thick leather is the way to go head to toe and proper foundry boots mine have steel toecaps steel sole plates and metatarsal guards. They are also guick release with clips on the side and a flap covering the front.

A good substitute, apparently, is the type of armoured boots that motocross rider wear. Although I haven't tried them personally.

Another point that I don't think has been raised is wear a hard had with a full face visor. I have personally had a small blob of molten iron ricochet off the roof and land on my head. I came to no harm but without a hard hat I would have had singed hair at the very least and possibly quite a bad burn.

It was said in a previous post that "molten metal takes no prisoners" and indeed it does not, nor do white hot lunps of coke. minor accidents happen in foundries regularly it's the nature of the beast.

The best way to avoid them becoming major ones is get good safety kit and use it. before it costs you an arm and a leg quite literally.

Doing dry runs as someone pointed out is another way of avoiding mishaps I always do. "practice twice, pour once" to paraphrase a common engineering saying.

So even if you do look like Darth Vader's brother and are doing a "tribal dance" around the foundry practising. you will be much better equipped to handle any problems.

As I am sure you foundrymen will agree, it all looks very different when you've got 20Lbs of molten iron "in the pot" about 3 feet away from you on the end of a stick.

Regards Mark


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