# Hall sensor mount



## Gordon (Jul 2, 2020)

Has anyone made a mount bracket for a Hall sensor? I found one on Thingaverse but it is too big for many of the small engine applications. I am not even too sure what a good design would be so I am looking for ideas. I am not familiar enough with 3D design to actually design one.


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## BaronJ (Jul 2, 2020)

Hi Gordon, Guys,

Basically use anything you like to make a mount as long as it is not magnetic, and you must get it the right way up.  In general you could just glue it in place, the wires to the device can often be a problem. They need to be thin enough to solder and thick enough to handle.

A technique that I've used is to solder thin flexible wires to the device leads and then use heat shrink to insulate them.  Use a larger diameter heat shrink over all three (sometimes four) wires to form a single lead.  Terminate the other end as necessary/needed.


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## doc1955 (Jul 2, 2020)

I have a video playlist for the Kerzel that I made a hall mount.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 2, 2020)

I super glue the devise right down to the aluminum surface of the distributor.


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## Gordon (Jul 2, 2020)

I was thinking about something like this but probably without the tab so that it can be mounted in a hole in a bracket or block with a hole in it.


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## BaronJ (Jul 2, 2020)

Hi Gordon,

Attached is a drawing of a typical hall device, there are many that are just a fraction of this size.  Some that I have are four lead switches and are 2.4 mm by 1.2 by 0.75 mm intended for surface mounting onto a PCB.





Dimensions are in mm with max and min values. Just to give you some idea of size. The one in this drawing is 3 mm thick.


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## doc1955 (Jul 2, 2020)

stevehuckss396 said:


> I super glue the devise right down to the aluminum surface of the distributor.


I did that originally on the Little Demon but after haveing some trouble getting them to not fry I ended up cutting a little window and making a tiny bracket to mount them in so I could change them easily and guess what haven't had to change one since I made the bracket lol. Go figure I did that so I didn't have to mess with the timing or anything if I had to change them. No watch next time I run one I'll need to change it lol.


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## rsholl (Jul 3, 2020)

Gordon, it is best to use the plastic holder to insulate the hall from the engine. If your ground to the engine gets corrupted for any reason, the high voltage will try going through the ground wire in the hall sensor. Max voltage on a hall is less than 30 volts. The hall sensor with Futaba connector on our site is shipped in a D-tube which works very well. I think about a 1/4" hole is good to mount it. If you order either length of the mounts in your photo I always send a short and long. In any case, keeping the hall sensor insulated from the engine is your best option.


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## BaronJ (Jul 3, 2020)

Hi Guys,

Since the hall device itself is in a plastic package that is also an insulator. The only way that you can fry one is by allowing the high voltage or current flow from the ignition coil through the actual wires of the device.  

If you are frying them then you have a wiring problem, the most likely is not having a common return path.  Any part of the engine that carries the return voltage or current from the ignition needs to be firmly bonded to the common ground, ie a single point return.

The easiest way to do this is to connect the electrical return to a bolt or screw on the engine itself.


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## Gordon (Jul 3, 2020)

I understand the use and function of the sensor. My problem has always been finding a way to mount the sensor so that it is held next to the magnet. The sensor is small and it is hard to find a robust way to mount it. I have used the D Tube shown by Rsholl which works but you still have to find a way to mount the D Tube. I am not very good at 3D design so I was hoping someone had mad a 3D print which they have used successfully. I have found one on Thingaverse that is close but I would like a change in it so I guess I will have to get back to playing around with the software.


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## doc1955 (Jul 3, 2020)

Gordon said:


> I understand the use and function of the sensor. My problem has always been finding a way to mount the sensor so that it is held next to the magnet. The sensor is small and it is hard to find a robust way to mount it. I have used the D Tube shown by Rsholl which works but you still have to find a way to mount the D Tube. I am not very good at 3D design so I was hoping someone had mad a 3D print which they have used successfully. I have found one on Thingaverse that is close but I would like a change in it so I guess I will have to get back to playing around with the software.


If you sketch something you would like I can put into cad and export an STL file for you. I tinker around in the mornings some times before I start my day lol 
  Some day I need to invest in a 3d printer.


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## BaronJ (Jul 3, 2020)

Hi Gordon, Guys,

That might be instructive !  Post a picture of the engine and where the magnet is or will be located.  That way others can see exactly the issues involved in getting a suitable mounting.


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## Charles Lamont (Jul 3, 2020)

This is an arrangement I have used. The sensor is epoxied to a little brass mounting plate that has a sensor sized rebate cut across it.
The terminal block is home made in delrin and brass with a phenolic cover plate. All the screws are 10-BA. The OD of the aluminium cover is 1-1/16" diameter.


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## Gordon (Jul 4, 2020)

I don't have a specific engine at this point. This is what I found on Thingaverse which I used on a previous engine. It worked but it was really too big and I ended up cutting the mount lugs off and tapping into the body. I had not really thought about epoxying the sensor to a brass or aluminum plate. That would actually work well since the actual mount changes with each application. One of these days I am going to have to get serious about learning 3D cad. I have used 2D cad for years and they say that makes it harder to learn 3D. I have played around with Fusion 360 and Freecad but by the time I need them I have forgotten too much and end up spending hours trying to relearn stuff.


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## iosensor (Jul 4, 2020)

Charles Lamont said:


> View attachment 117579
> 
> 
> This is an arrangement I have used. The sensor is epoxied to a little brass mounting plate that has a sensor sized rebate cut across it.
> The terminal block is home made in delrin and brass with a phenolic cover plate. All the screws are 10-BA. The OD of the aluminium cover is 1-1/16" diameter.




That looks quite nice: lots of work for a little sensor, but it pays!


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## gbritnell (Jul 5, 2020)

Hi Gordon,
I have always used a metal bracket to hold my Hall sensors. On any engine that I had trouble with it wasn't because of the holder but rather a poorly fashioned wire joint. Attached are pictures of the distributor from my flathead engine. There's quite a few of them so I'll have to send them in a couple of postings.
gbritnell


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## gbritnell (Jul 5, 2020)

The remainder of the pictures. The magnet is pressed into the small angle bracket which mounts to the floor of the distributor. The window is cut into the side of the distributor for the bracket to fit into. The bracket is held to the distributor with 0-80 socket head screws. The timing wheel has to be steel. The wall thickness of the timing wheel is .020. The cap is made from black Delrin. The rotor from white only for the reason that it was easier to see. The strap on the rotor is .010 phosphor bronze with the brass end screwed to the rotor. I use a set screw in the rotor for timing. The timing disc also has a set screw so that it can be adjusted for timing. 
gbritnell


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## Peter Twissell (Jul 6, 2020)

It should be noted that it is not a good idea to have ferrous metal parts close to the hall sensor. Even a small screw will have an effect on the magnetic field which the sensor uses to dtect the rotor position and can generate errors. I woud suggest aluminium brackets and stainless screws.


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## BaronJ (Jul 6, 2020)

Hi Peter,

I agree !

But be careful because some stainless steel screws are just as capable of being magnetised as ordinary steel ones.

Actually I warned about anything magnetic in post No:2.


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## Peter Twissell (Jul 6, 2020)

1) I should read through the whole thread before posting.
2) I should have specified austenitic stainless, e.g. 304 or 316.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 6, 2020)

I made my disk that holds the magnets out of steel and the engine runs just fine. Others have made the same part from aluminum with no noticeable difference in performance.


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## Peter Twissell (Jul 6, 2020)

I'm sure there will be plenty who have perfectly satisfactory setups with large lumps of steel around the hall sensor.
My point is that it can have detrimental effects and should be avoided if possible. In automotive applications, we often have no choice and cannot avoid steel flywheels etc. In those cases, extensive testing is carried out and often the controller software had to take account of the effects.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 7, 2020)

Gordon said:


> I don't have a specific engine at this point. This is what I found on Thingaverse which I used on a previous engine. It worked but it was really too big and I ended up cutting the mount lugs off and tapping into the body. I had not really thought about epoxying the sensor to a brass or aluminum plate. That would actually work well since the actual mount changes with each application. One of these days I am going to have to get serious about learning 3D cad. I have used 2D cad for years and they say that makes it harder to learn 3D. I have played around with Fusion 360 and Freecad but by the time I need them I have forgotten too much and end up spending hours trying to relearn stuff.
> 
> 
> View attachment 117593


I have used 2D CAD for many years--believe me, 3D CAD is actually much easier if you get the right CAD.  My son uses Fusion but I tried it and it was more difficult for me to use than to continue with AutoCAD Architectural for mechanical parts.  Yes, it works just fine for mechanical too.  However, I have used many 3D CADs and they are usually much easier to use than 2D--Really!


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## Gordon (Jul 7, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> I have used 2D CAD for many years--believe me, 3D CAD is actually much easier if you get the right CAD.  My son uses Fusion but I tried it and it was more difficult for me to use than to continue with AutoCAD Architectural for mechanical parts.  Yes, it works just fine for mechanical too.  However, I have used many 3D CADs and they are usually much easier to use than 2D--Really!


I suspect that had I been using Autocad I would be better able to transition to 3D. I have been using Visual CADD for 30+ years which uses 2 letter commands instead of menu items. It is primarily a drafting program. It enters values in x/y coordinates. For example I can snap to a given point and enter a command like C2 which is a circle defined by radius. It will ask for center point which can be entered as x,y (example 3,2 where it is 3" in x direction and 2" y direction) then it asks for the radius and it produces a circle. You can use the menu but once you learn the commands it is much faster than finding items a couple of items down in the menu. At 80 years old I do not want to spend a lot of time trying to learn an new program for occasional hobby use.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 7, 2020)

Gordon said:


> I suspect that had I been using Autocad I would be better able to transition to 3D. I have been using Visual CADD for 30+ years which uses 2 letter commands instead of menu items. It is primarily a drafting program. It enters values in x/y coordinates. For example I can snap to a given point and enter a command like C2 which is a circle defined by radius. It will ask for center point which can be entered as x,y (example 3,2 where it is 3" in x direction and 2" y direction) then it asks for the radius and it produces a circle. You can use the menu but once you learn the commands it is much faster than finding items a couple of items down in the menu. At 80 years old I do not want to spend a lot of time trying to learn an new program for occasional hobby use.


You don't look 80.  If you can get a copy of Inventor, an old copy, it is exceedingly easy to learn.  Follow the tutorial, learn it in two days or less.


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## Gordon (Jul 8, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> You don't look 80.  If you can get a copy of Inventor, an old copy, it is exceedingly easy to learn.  Follow the tutorial, learn it in two days or less.


The reason that I don't look 80 is because I will not be 80 for three more weeks.

Inventor software situation is interesting. I looked on Amazon and it is super expensive and they only seem to have 2020 version. Prior year versions are no longer available but the description says that it is downloadable in 11 hours on broadband and 433 days on dialup.  Imagine having a dedicated phone line tied up for over a year and then having a power outage on day 432 and starting over. I looked on eBay and there are student copies available for $15 to $25. They state that the sellers are students who are eligible to purchase the student edition but they have not used them so they sell their copy on eBay.


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## mrehmus (Jul 8, 2020)

Try the home version of Alibre's Atom3D. I made the transition from AutoCAD which I had used since version 0.9. Alibre 3D is about 10 X faster than AutoCAD and you can check your design as you go. This is a distributor design I've made for an article in the upcoming issue of the magazine. Note that the parts can all be printed or machined with manual tools .                                                                                  



.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 8, 2020)

Gordon said:


> The reason that I don't look 80 is because I will not be 80 for three more weeks.
> 
> Inventor software situation is interesting. I looked on Amazon and it is super expensive and they only seem to have 2020 version. Prior year versions are no longer available but the description says that it is downloadable in 11 hours on broadband and 433 days on dialup.  Imagine having a dedicated phone line tied up for over a year and then having a power outage on day 432 and starting over. I looked on eBay and there are student copies available for $15 to $25. They state that the sellers are students who are eligible to purchase the student edition but they have not used them so they sell their copy on eBay.


I use a very old Inventor, I thimk it is version 6.  It is really great, not perfect but does great stuff.  I thimk I will try to find the Alibre that Mrehmus mentions above.  

Mrehmus:  Is that Alibre free software?  One of the probs with older software is that microsux slowly evolves as it bloats and the older stuff doesn't operate right anymore.


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## mrehmus (Jul 8, 2020)

No, the software is around $150 and sometimes for sale for $100. It is not perfect software but I've been making models and drawings with it for 15 years since I started the magazine.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 8, 2020)

Gordon said:


> The reason that I don't look 80 is because I will not be 80 for three more weeks.
> 
> Inventor software situation is interesting. I looked on Amazon and it is super expensive and they only seem to have 2020 version. Prior year versions are no longer available but the description says that it is downloadable in 11 hours on broadband and 433 days on dialup.  Imagine having a dedicated phone line tied up for over a year and then having a power outage on day 432 and starting over. I looked on eBay and there are student copies available for $15 to $25. They state that the sellers are students who are eligible to purchase the student edition but they have not used them so they sell their copy on eBay.


I'm dislexic, did you say 08?  I'm 17.  I lookt up Alibre's 3D.  It lisenses for 200$US which is really a good deal, it is perpetual, you can -put it 9on more than one computer but the liscence code is only good for one computer at a time.  Mrehmus says sometimes it goes on sale.  I wonders if they give senior discounts.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 8, 2020)

mrehmus said:


> No, the software is around $150 and sometimes for sale for $100. It is not perfect software but I've been making models and drawings with it for 15 years since I started the magazine.


R u able to get updates or are you still using the orignial from 15 years ago?  Maybe a newer version would be more powerful.


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## mrehmus (Jul 8, 2020)

If you really want to step up to the 3D plate and are a student or veteran (US & Canada, maybe others) you can get a 1-year license for the full Solidworks for $20. You have to buy another $20 license after that year.
I'm either too old or too lazy to learn another program since Alibre does everything I want (even though the support fee is $465 a year for the top-end version) which I have.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 8, 2020)

mrehmus said:


> If you really want to step up to the 3D plate and are a student or veteran (US & Canada, maybe others) you can get a 1-year license for the full Solidworks for $20. You have to buy another $20 license after that year.
> I'm either too old or too lazy to learn another program since Alibre does everything I want (even though the support fee is $465 a year for the top-end version) which I have.


I've used Solidworks professionally, it is really easy and powerful.  Maybe I will go to school in Astronomy (want to make a couple mirrors for telescopes) and get the Solidworks for 20$.  Thanx for the heads up.


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## mrehmus (Jul 8, 2020)

BTW, for low-speed engines, we tend to use a reed switch. Almost impossible to break, they don't need much of a magnetic field and they don't need power like the Hall Effect Sensor so there are only 2 wires to hook up. For farm-style engines, we just solder a wire to one end of the switch and solder the other end to the tip of a 1/16" brass tube. The second wire is actually the tube and it is connected at the other end to the ground on the electronics.
You can get 50 of them for about $5.


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## BaronJ (Jul 9, 2020)

Hi Guys,

In a former life I designed and used to use reed switches to make blown bulb detectors for motor car lights.


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## Peter Twissell (Jul 10, 2020)

Reed switches are a useful alternative when high frequency switching is not important. I've recently designed a system using reed switches for control of active aero devices in a supercar. Some consider them to be primative, but they are reliable and provide options not available with electronic sensors.


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