# PMR BLR-2 Horizontal Boiler



## PaulG (Feb 21, 2010)

Hello All,

I finished my little PMR 5Bi engine, if it runs it will need a boiler, if it doesn't run I still want one. I purchased this kit around two years ago so I would have something to do after retirement. I have never silver soldered anything before, thought about getting some pipe fittings to practice on. I have a couple of friend that do related work, HVAC & plumber. I hope that I might be able to look to you all for help, if I cant search the info I need. I have been involved with boilers my entire life, from age 8 ... 59... boilers 10hp to 1500HP. And that doesn't mean squat when it comes to building a safe one, even if it's small. My 2 cents of that!!! 

http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/product.php?productid=3112&cat=7&page=1







Some of you guys have probably have seen this before, Me, age 8.










Paul


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## gbritnell (Feb 21, 2010)

Hi Paul, my advice is go to the local home supplier or hardware store and pick up a couple of copper fittings and practice on them. The most important thing is that the joints are clean and fluxed then start adding the heat. When the flux turns clear touch the silver solder to it and then start moving away. You will see the solder follow the heat. At some point touch the solder again to keep enough on the joint.
gbritnell


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## zeeprogrammer (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm very interested in this project. Lots of details please! ;D


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## vlmarshall (Feb 21, 2010)

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Paul, my advice is go to the local home supplier or hardware store and pick up a couple of copper fittings and practice on them.



That's a great idea. Cheap and plentiful copper pieces with no risk of wrecking the parts you've got lots of time invested in. :bow:


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## bearcar1 (Feb 21, 2010)

Cute lad in the hard hat, what happened? :big: That is one tall draught chimney, due no doubt to the proximity to the trees and the hillside. What's inside the shed? I have two of those boiler kits and I have to say they are nice but a lot of work. The rivet holes and cinching is what takes a lot of the time. You will require a fair mount of heat to get the solder to flow when the shell is all built up, that's a lot of copper to keep hot. Best of luck.

BC1
Jim


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## Paul_C (Feb 22, 2010)

The silver solder that comes with the PMR kits applies more like a plumbing solder. It's lower temperature and free flowing. MAPP gas would probably be enough, a small turbo torch is all I used for their solder. I recently completed the BLR-1 and it was a fun project. I used Harris #15 for the threaded bushings and that required an oxygen/acetylene torch but used their solder for the rest. It ain't pretty but I hydro tested it to over 140#. I made a new base and used parts from a Coleman propane/butane camping stove for the burner. It's for a model boat my father is currently building.


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## cfellows (Feb 22, 2010)

I see you have one of their 8M V-twin double acting oscillators. I love that little engine but can't bring myself to part with $150 for the kit. Wish someone offered the rough castings for a better price. I've been working on my own plans for one for some time now. I love the reversing feature and the fact that all the plumbing is hidden in the frame and cylinder supports.

Chuck


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## zeeprogrammer (Feb 22, 2010)

Nice detail on that boiler.
I wouldn't mind seeing more pics of it and the engine.


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## PaulG (Feb 22, 2010)

Hello All,

I have to figure out how to Quote a single line of text.



			
				gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Paul, my advice is go to the local home supplier or hardware store and pick up a couple of copper fittings and practice on them. The most important thing is that the joints are clean and fluxed then start adding the heat. When the flux turns clear touch the silver solder to it and then start moving away. You will see the solder follow the heat. At some point touch the solder again to keep enough on the joint.
> gbritnell



Thanks, that's I what did today, and found a "mini boiler". I bought the 6" piece over a year ago.











More on that six incher later.



			
				bearcar1  said:
			
		

> Cute lad in the hard hat, what happened? :big: That is one tall draught chimney, due no doubt to the proximity to the trees and the hillside. What's inside the shed? I have two of those boiler kits and I have to say they are nice but a lot of work. The rivet holes and cinching is what takes a lot of the time. You will require a fair mount of heat to get the solder to flow when the shell is all built up, that's a lot of copper to keep hot. Best of luck.
> 
> BC1
> Jim



Jim, The kid got old, fatter & bald. The sheds housed a sawmill, I wish I could relive those days.



			
				Paul_C  said:
			
		

> The silver solder that comes with the PMR kits applies more like a plumbing solder. It's lower temperature and free flowing. MAPP gas would probably be enough, a small turbo torch is all I used for their solder. I recently completed the BLR-1 and it was a fun project. I used Harris #15 for the threaded bushings and that required an oxygen/acetylene torch but used their solder for the rest. It ain't pretty but I hydro tested it to over 140#. I made a new base and used parts from a Coleman propane/butane camping stove for the burner. It's for a model boat my father is currently building.



Yes, I was experimenting a little yesterday, the solder that came with the kit melts around 430f. I consider that caulking.

I read, somewhere, cant find it now. Someone discussing this boiler kit. The guy was told that he did not need to install rivets, just solder it ??? I hope he did not use the kit solder!!! 

Nice looking boiler Paul_C, Hmmm, looks like your a little higher up the food chain, PaulG 


*GWRdriver*... if you drop in, I would appreciate your thoughts on using that 6" L pipe for the K.N. Harris boiler #1 pg. 148. I purchased .250" phosphor-bronze rods for stays and .125" C110 copper sheet for the heads.  Thanks in advance.

Paul


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## GWRdriver (Feb 22, 2010)

PaulG  said:
			
		

> *GWRdriver*... if you drop in, . . . .


Paul,
I'm out of town at the moment but I will be where I can look at the Harris design tomorrow . . . and you are right to consider soft solder to be caulking, and some of us really don't like to admit that.


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## Paul_C (Feb 23, 2010)

No intentions on hijacking this thread.



> I see you have one of their 8M V-twin double acting oscillators. I love that little engine but can't bring myself to part with $150 for the kit. Wish someone offered the rough castings for a better price. I've been working on my own plans for one for some time now. I love the reversing feature and the fact that all the plumbing is hidden in the frame and cylinder supports.



It's a nice little engine. Should have plenty of power for a 36" boat. Only question is if the boiler is up to the task. The esbit tablets didn't have the heat or longevity so the need for an alternative fuel source. Chuck, I don't know if a kit is a good thing or bad thing sometimes. I've had this equipment around for 20 years and recently my father asked me if I could do the machine work. Sure, why not. Got me back into the hobby after a long abstinence. Funny thing is after spending a day building the feedwater pump I found out you could purchase it assembled for another 25 bucks. Old school thought was if you could purchase it cheaper than the time making it then buy it. But I built it to much tighter tolerances than in the prints and enjoyed myself so it was worth the time. As for the 8M, really not much machine work that would be needed if it were a casting kit. The cylinders are a hard anodized aluminum and it's something most home machinists couldn't do. 



			
				zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Nice detail on that boiler.
> I wouldn't mind seeing more pics of it and the engine.



I'm pretty much finished the project and now that I'm figuring out this forum I may do a quick write up. Got plenty of pics. Old habits were garage, grease and gasoline in the summer, electronics indoors where it's warm in the winter. But this year I had to press on to finish the project while my father was busy gluing wood in Florida. Now that I'm pretty much finished I want to get back out there with the propane heaters.

And to PaulG, You can do it. At first without considering anything when asked to build a boiler I said to my father no problem. Then when I opened the box I thought to myself, what the hell did I get myself into. I worked my way through a few problems and now if I were to do it again it would be several times easier. One of the most apprehensive parts was the riveting because several people on other forums said it was difficult and I didn't want to have to remove a defective one. Turned out to be really easy, swagging the tubes over gave me more difficulty and I had to make a different set of swagging tools than shown in the prints. Although I consider the boiler I built rather ugly compared to some of the other gems I've seen I'm not worried about it popping. I agree with you about the kit solder, no way I would want to use it without mechanical fastening. Worked great on the riveted joints but from experience I prefer a hard silver solder for joints that aren't mechanically fastened.


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## PaulG (Feb 23, 2010)

Paul_C,

No problem, all information is welcome  Is your boat project RC? I don't know why I haven't built or bought a boat, as I have an 1.5 acre lake/pond right out side my shop. I use to fly fixed wing behind the lake, too many trees. fly heli off the concrete, best of both, trees & water ;D







I think a write up on your work is a great idea!!! please do. A couple quick questions if I may.

What type of drills did you use? and did you anneal the rivets first?

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 23, 2010)

GWRdriver  said:
			
		

> Paul,
> I'm out of town at the moment but I will be where I can look at the Harris design tomorrow . . . and you are right to consider soft solder to be caulking, and some of us really don't like to admit that.



Hey, Thanks  No hurry... I have a lot to learn before that one. 

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 23, 2010)

Hello

Yesterday I closely inspected all kit parts, only found one defect that I missed two years ago. One door hinge Lug is missing, not broken off, just void, QC at factory. See Pic. Should be an easy fix.






Paul


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## bearcar1 (Feb 23, 2010)

Paul, may I suggest a phone call to PMR regarding your defective casting. Those folks are quite helpful and I would bet they would send out a new piece to you as a replacement for free. I had some minor defects as well and in a conversation while I was ordering other things from them the person I was speaking to volunteered on his own to do the replacement without my having to ask. I was stunned (and happy) at that level of customer service. If you think that you can do the repair so be it but it would be worth a quick call anyway.

BC1
Jim


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## cobra428 (Feb 23, 2010)

I built his guy about 4 years ago. Fun project, so I bought the horizontal and never started. BC1 is correct about PMR...good bunch of folks 






Tony


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## Paul_C (Feb 23, 2010)

I agree with Jim, I hear their customer service is excellent. They promptly answered all the questions my father had when trying to decide which combination of boiler and engine to use. 

That's nice looking Tony. I believe I've seen it on the web somewhere. I see you have the sight glass on the left.

Paul, I just finished resizing a bunch of pics and will start a new thread soon. I used standard high speed twist drills. I didn't dress them special like you have to for brass. The rivets are plenty soft so they don't have to be annealed. It only takes two or three medium blows to set them.

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 23, 2010)

Jim, Tony, & Paul

Man, I am so darn hard headed, I don't know why, but I will look at fixing it out of Al. or brass, without damaging the casting. If I cant, I will contact PMR. I am not in anyway putting down PMR. They have great products, sometimes things just slip by. Thanks for the Info.

PaulG


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## GWRdriver (Feb 23, 2010)

PaulG  said:
			
		

> I am so darn hard headed, . . . . but I will look at fixing it out of Al. or brass, without damaging the casting.


Paul,
I would fix this one also, it's relatively easy if you have a lathe and 4-jaw chuck, and while I was at it I'd go ahead and file the other one off and fix that one too.  I'd use a piece of flat steel strip and make up a couple of hinge halves with a threaded spigot.


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## cobra428 (Feb 24, 2010)

PaulG,
When I got home from work last night I ran over to see if mine where all there. I'm OK
Looks like GW has a good idea!
Tony


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## PaulG (Mar 3, 2010)

Hello All,

GW, thanks that should work well.

Tony, have you started construction yet?

I have been practicing Silver soldering & Copper forming. I bought a few fittings, Tee & couplings. I split the couplings then annealed & flattened them for heads. Turned two quick formers out of aluminum. The heat required using 45% Safety-Silv was a lot more than I expected, for what I considered a small part entrapped between a V of bricks. With two propane torches and some help from the oxy/ac set, success. I used spa/pool Ph down
(Sodium bisulfate) for the pickle, it worked very well, cost was $8.00  ½ cup in three gallons of water.






















Paul


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## PaulG (Mar 11, 2010)

Hello All,

Well, I have been goofing off a lot, not getting much accomplished. So, this is it. I made the rivet setting tools and finally got them dialed in on the steam dome, not a good place to practice, tool marks are visible. I am able to install them now, without leaving marks. I annealed them after the first one, helped a lot.








The shell was a little shorter than the template, I just cut it in half and moved it down a little. Center punched all hole locations & drilled.

















I am getting lazy, didnt feel like setting up to cut the radius on the stack base, did the same thing with the firebox casting. Then bored the base.











Ran at 30RPM, around three minutes to complete.











I set the smoke box door clearances & drilled the pin holes.






Paul


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## zeeprogrammer (Mar 11, 2010)

Steam dome looks great to me.
Looking forward to seeing more.


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## 4156df (Mar 11, 2010)

Paul,
I REALLY like the look of your steam dome, particulary the bottom flange. Can you share a little on how you formed it?
Dennis


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## JMI (Mar 11, 2010)

Here is a build log to a PM Research vertical boiler.

http://www.mysidewheeler.com/pmsboiler1.htm

You may find it helpful. I assume it is very similar to the horizontal one.
One of these days I plan to tackle one or the other.

Good luck!

Jim


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## PaulG (Mar 11, 2010)

Zee, Dennis, Jim Thanks

Dennis, the dome comes flanged in the kit. I will need to form one for the six inch boiler at a later date, looks like fun!!!

Jim, thanks for posting Kens link, I ran across it sometime ago, then lost the bookmark. Ken does nice build logs. 

Paul


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## PaulG (Mar 30, 2010)

Hello All

I took a little break to go toy shopping. Bought this to double stack Quads & Snowmobiles in the garage and move machines in the shop.






I finally got around to installing the steam dome and the tube sheets. The rivets are all in, tubes & stays next, then solder.











Paul


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## slick95 (Apr 29, 2010)

Hey Paul,

How is the Boiler Build going? I just purchased the same and following along on your build was my inspiration. 

Jeff


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## PaulG (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi Jeff

Not much progress on my part, yard work... I did manage to make the flaring tools and install the tubes without cracking any. The tubes were annealed first. I am going on a little road trip, seven western states. I hope to resume construction around late May.

Paul


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## Deanofid (Apr 29, 2010)

Gee, those look really good, Paul.
Did you use both ends of the flaring tool to get the tubes formed like that? The beveled end first, then the flat end to press them down?
However you did it, I want to know. It's neat!

Dean


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## slick95 (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks for the update Paul,

I'm with Dean, the flared tubes came out real nice...how to do that? ???

Have a great trip and look forward to your continued build progress...

Jeff


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## Kermit (Apr 29, 2010)

I thought I had it figured out. (How he flared and flattened the tube). With the threaded rod and shaped nuts. Flared one end and right angled press on the other. Now that you ask the question. I have to question my perceptions of his process as well.

 ???  What?

Kermit  :bow:


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## PaulG (Apr 29, 2010)

Dean, Jeff & Kermit

Thanks for your comments. Your both right. I flared both end at the same time with the bevels facing in, then reversed the nuts & rolled them flat. 

Paul


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## Deanofid (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks Paul. That really is something for me to write down. 
Handy tool you made, and maybe good for other stuff, too.

Dean


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