# morse taper



## itowbig (Mar 11, 2015)

i was thinking about making some 2mt morse tapers with slits so as to hold drill bits instead of using a drill chuck. to save space on my little 7x10 lathe
i was looking through ebay an saw some morse tapers with slits in them and though why would this not work for holding regular drill bits.
now im not talking about holding every size drill bit out there just a few radom ones that i would be using say 5/16 3/8ths ect. ive bean googling for a while and all i come up with is drill chucks and mt drill shanks ect.


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## Charles Lamont (Mar 11, 2015)

What you should look for is a morse taper 'collet', eg here:

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/Morse-Taper-Collets


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## itowbig (Mar 12, 2015)

Charles Lamont said:


> What you should look for is a morse taper 'collet', eg here:
> 
> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/Morse-Taper-Collets



AWWWW i see Thank you. ill google these


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## kiwi2 (Mar 12, 2015)

If you have a morse taper in your headstock these can be used instead of the three jaw chuck to give more accurate work holding.
My lathe has a #3 morse taper in the headstock so I use a #3 to #2 liner and the #2 collets.
 Regards,
Alan C.


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## bazmak (Mar 12, 2015)

you can buy an ER collet chuck with MT and a set of collets these will hold a full range of drills.Not expensive and more usefull


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## Swifty (Mar 12, 2015)

Sid, if you are going to use the collets in your tailstock, you will need some method of tightening them, like a draw bar.

Paul.


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## goldstar31 (Mar 12, 2015)

bazmak said:


> you can buy an ER collet chuck with MT and a set of collets these will hold a full range of drills.Not expensive and more usefull


Yes Barry, I agree- and disagree. I have three sets of collets. One homemade, one from Myford and as you mention, an ER set. I've also a set for my Unimat clone and my 8mm watchmaker's lathe.

But I have a set of solid no2MT blanks( or were) that take various centre drills, With a draw bar- as Speedy recommends. Again, these solid ones have many uses. I have a set of No1's with abrasive wheels for a T&C grinder and an odd variant with a welded on  disc with a sweep face square tool to use the bigger lathe as a miller. None of them are original ideas and the last should really have THREE spaces for various radius cuts.
Martin Cleeve suggestion. When, I forget.

Dead useful ideas- thank you for raising the matter

Norman


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## itowbig (Mar 12, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Sid, if you are going to use the collets in your tailstock, you will need some method of tightening them, like a draw bar.
> 
> Paul.


yup thought about that as well but was hoping they would hold from just pressure being applied  . im just trying to make more space on my 7x10 with out too much exspence and if i can make the parts with same lathe , better for me.


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## Swifty (Mar 12, 2015)

Sid, I doubt very much if they would hold like you want. I understand what you mean, but it's asking a lot, you would have to hammer the front of the taper into the tailstock in order to close the collet.

Paul.


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## bazmak (Mar 13, 2015)

MT collets wont work without a drawbar


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## Gedeon Spilett (Mar 13, 2015)

I do have MT3 collets, very comfortable with the mill and the lathe, the shortest overhang you can find.  for the same reason I also have a MT2 set for the rotary table that I cannot use on the tailstock, no easy to extract, unless you have a small  threaded part to fill the gap of the tenon...


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## itowbig (Mar 13, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Sid, I doubt very much if they would hold like you want. I understand what you mean, but it's asking a lot, you would have to hammer the front of the taper into the tailstock in order to close the collet.
> 
> Paul.


well i was thinking . so now ill have to figger out some thing else. 
maybe i can find a tail stock on ebay cheap and cut it down an modify it for a draw bar type thingy. not needed right away but was just getting more info for latter on if an when i might need extra room.
Thanks for replys


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## goldstar31 (Mar 13, 2015)

itowbig said:


> well i was thinking . so now ill have to figger out some thing else.
> maybe i can find a tail stock on ebay cheap and cut it down an modify it for a draw bar type thingy. not needed right away but was just getting more info for latter on if an when i might need extra room.
> Thanks for replys


 
Might I ask 'Why?' when you could obviously bore your existing tailstock to take a draw bar.

What baffles me is how you are going to make No2 Morse taper collets.
With my lathe( a Myford Super7B) I have two possibilities. One is to use the top slide and the other, putting a rear mounted taper turning attachment on and disconnect the boring table. The math(s) is simple enough- a 10" sine bar and a 0.250" off set or a 5" sine and 0.125" off set. 
That's what Morse did- until someone mucked it up. However, I had a 9 x20 as a 9180 and the top slide traverse was too short and there was no way that I could( or would) fit a taper turning attachment.

There are lots of ( to me) silly off set tools that go into the tailstock that leave me baffled. 

Then if you have made the collet- how are you going to split it?

I once saw a slitting saw that was trying to do this- and it broke- and nearly finished more than one of us off.

Respectfully, why and how?

Cheers

Norman


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## XD351 (Mar 13, 2015)

I wonder if it would be possible to make a morse taper collet that uses a closing nut like an ER collet ?
That way you could machine a short thread on the end of the tailstock barrel and make a nut to fit.
You would close the collet in the same manner as an ER collet but eject it by winding the barrel back into the tailstock housing as you would to eject  a centre etc.

Or you could make some MT holders for your drill bits and either use grub screws to hold them in or braze/ silver solder them in the holders.


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## rodw (Mar 13, 2015)

goldstar31 said:


> Might I ask 'Why?' when you could obviously bore your existing tailstock to take a draw bar.
> 
> What baffles me is how you are going to make No2 Morse taper collets.
> With my lathe( a Myford Super7B) I have two possibilities. One is to use the top slide and the other, putting a rear mounted taper turning attachment on and disconnect the boring table. The math(s) is simple enough- a 10" sine bar and a 0.250" off set or a 5" sine and 0.125" off set.
> ...



Here's my solution to making Morse Tapers.





















Nice and simple way to set the compound angle with good results. Your tailstock is aligned right?


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## goldstar31 (Mar 13, 2015)

Nice Rod but there are such things as Internal tapers as well. 
I do my 'male' ones on the tool and cutter grinder- between centres. Of course, I have a finishing No2 Mt but not a roughing one. to do 'female' ones.

The trickierer part is boring hardened female centres. So far, I can't manage them on my home workshop kit. Any ideas because I have a Thomas Dividing head and want to put in a Thomas Small Boring Head to do ball handles. I risk galling the present set up with a detachable but soft spindle.

Regards and thanks for showing your very accomplished set up

Norman


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## rodw (Mar 13, 2015)

goldstar31 said:


> Nice Rod but there are such things as Internal tapers as well.
> I do my 'male' ones on the tool and cutter grinder- between centres. Of course, I have a finishing No2 Mt but not a roughing one. to do 'female' ones.
> 
> The trickierer part is boring hardened female centres. So far, I can't manage them on my home workshop kit. Any ideas because I have a Thomas Dividing head and want to put in a Thomas Small Boring Head to do ball handles. I risk galling the present set up with a detachable but soft spindle.
> ...




Norman, thanks, I happened to do a search the other day on eBay for MT3 reamer and some kits are surprisingly inexpensive. Here's an MT2 one with both reamers for <$25

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MT2-No-2-Morse-Taper-Reamer-Set-Number-two-/291299916617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item43d2d3fb49

I think I'd go this way down the track. It's not something you'd use very often so I think the Chinese tool would be OK for me.


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## goldstar31 (Mar 13, 2015)

Rod
       Great information but I wonder about things here in Little England. There really are some horrendous prices here. Mine is getting somewhat blunt and I don't have an air spindle. 

I don't think that UK tool suppliers want us model engineers and especially wizenned old farts like me.

Nice to read something that is new here. 

My thanks

Norman


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## petertha (Mar 13, 2015)

bazmak said:


> you can buy an ER collet chuck with MT and a set of collets these will hold a full range of drills.Not expensive and more usefull


 
I was wondering about the same thing. ER collet holders are available with MT shanks, but I'm not clear - would the arbors not also require the tang (or whatever the flat portion is called on end) to resist torque & prevent spinning? Is that what you guys are referring to about a drawbar required like on a mill?


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## kf2qd (Mar 13, 2015)

Morse taper drill holders used to be around. The drill bits had flats on the end and each drill required a different morse taper holder.


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## rodw (Mar 14, 2015)

goldstar31 said:


> Rod
> Great information but I wonder about things here in Little England. There really are some horrendous prices here. Mine is getting somewhat blunt and I don't have an air spindle.
> 
> I don't think that UK tool suppliers want us model engineers and especially wizenned old farts like me.
> ...



Norman, thanks. The listing I posted said they ship worldwide. You'll probably also find the same supplier on ebay.com. 

Petertha, the two lathes I have had don't have tangs so it is just the friction in the MT3 tailstock holding in the  drill chuck so if you  seat it firmly, it should hold.


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## goldstar31 (Mar 14, 2015)

rodw said:


> Norman, thanks. The listing I posted said they ship worldwide. You'll probably also find the same supplier on ebay.com.


 
It's difficult to cope with what additional charges and hassle might arrive. VAT( Value added Tax), Customs, Exchange surcharges on money conversions) Really, I have enough hassle having Spanish properties and also travelling extensively into Europe itself.

Now, the Chinese here are wanting  me to go back to HongKong which I love.

I'm supposed to be retired:hDe: Chance is a fine thing.

Norman


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## vederstein (Mar 14, 2015)

I was scanning though this topic and had a thought.  All this talk about collets and modifications.  Why not just get on Ebay or Craigslist and purchase a longer lathe.

Even Little Machine Shop sells longer beds to upgrade your lathe.

Just a thought.

...Ved.


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## itowbig (Mar 14, 2015)

i had a bigger lathe . but due to illness and finances i had to sell everything to keep me alive. now im starting over again and want small equipment so i can move it around by my self. i dont mind smaller equipment . i just need to learn how to get around some issues with smaller equipment. and some of them issues are working on longer stuff or drilling with longer bits. 
hey everybody could have a full fledge machine shop with all the big boys ,but when your broke an cant lift stuff like when i was a lad (er superman) haha. 
i like smaller lathes . stuff i do could and can be made on smaller equipment. 
it's just gunna require more thinking , witch is ok for me. At least my brain will be busy hahahahahahahaha


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## MachineTom (Mar 14, 2015)

I have some of these, They are called split collets. They can be purchased to fit anu drill, number, letter metric, fractional. There is no drawbar needed, however you need to have a tang slot in the tailstock quill, to avoid spinning on larger sizes, The trick that makes them work is there is a depth stop in the collet, so the drill puts all its force into the collet body to hold it in, and of course the grip increases at the same time.b I have both mt-1 and mt-2 body size a range of sizes. The sizes are mostly tap drill sizes,  To lock them into the TS, I just whack a piece of stock against the collet one or two shots is all. 

PM me if you would like some Cheap.


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## MachineTom (Mar 15, 2015)

A couple of photos, mt-1 and my-2







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## itowbig (Mar 15, 2015)

those are what ive seen witch gave me the idea in the first place.


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## Niels Abildgaard (Mar 16, 2015)

What is the diameter of the tailstock quill and can you thread the nose for 10- 20 mm?


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## itowbig (Mar 16, 2015)

Niels Abildgaard said:


> What is the diameter of the tailstock quill and can you thread the nose for 10- 20 mm?



1 i dont know . 2 probably have not thought about that. im just looking for a simple idea for holding drill bits at the tail stock saving as much space as i can, so as to drill longer stock. no real big deal i can set up drill press and drill . but it would be easyer to do it all on the lathe while its chucked up.  im leaning on buying a tail stock and modifying that for my needs then make my own morse taper thingys as i need them. im mean after all i do have a lathe might as well make tools as i need them , right.


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