# Quick change toolposts---again



## Brian Rupnow (Dec 17, 2010)

I just measured my lathe, and from the center of the chuck down to the top of the compound rest (where my present toolholder sets on) is 0.9". The lathe is listed as a "10 x 18" lathe" by BusyBee tools. I just heard that my radial engine article has been published in The Home Shop Machinist magazine, so---Found Money!!!! I may purchase a good quick change toolpost, and I haven't got a clue as to what size/type I need. Can someone shed some light on this please.---I may order it from "Little Machine Shop".----Brian


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## steamer (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi Brian,

My "center height" at the compound is 1" ...and my Aloris AXA wedge clone fits perfect.  I think you would be fine with that. There is plenty of travel. I'll take a photo so you can see for yourself.

You'll need to turn up a nut for it though.

Dave


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 17, 2010)

The thru bolt on my toolholder is 0.390" diameter which translates roughly to 10mm dia. and there is a locking lever/nut that screws onto the top of it.


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## kcmillin (Dec 17, 2010)

Brian, Congratulations on the publication!!!

When I bought my Lathe (Second Hand) It came with a QC toolpost, brand new still in the box. He never got around to milling the T-Nut. (Because I bought his mill too :big

Anyway, the lathe is a 10" Grizz and the QC toolpost is an AXA 200. I think they advertise this as 10" Swing on the low end. 

Well, once I milled the T-nut and got her installed I had a horrible realization that I could not get the "Tool" low enough, and subsequently had to mill a 1/4" off the bottom of each tool holder so I could get the tool to the proper height.

I do like the Extra "Beef" it gives the machine though.

Kel


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 17, 2010)

KCMillin---Thats exactly the horrible realization I'm trying to avoid!!!


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## kcmillin (Dec 17, 2010)

Brian, It was not too bad milling the tool holders down, just something I did not want to do to a brand new tool. The AXA 100 series should fit no problem.

Does your lathe have a t-nut in the compound to hold the toolpost? 

I think the kits come with a piece of steel with a threaded hole which you have to machine to fit your lathe. If you do not have the t-slot, than I think you will need to make a sleeve to fit your toolpost bolt, and use a flanged hex bolt to hold it down instead of the lever system the turret has, but I am sure that would work too.

I am just thinking out loud now. 

Kel


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 18, 2010)

As steamer said: 
I think axa or 100 size should work fine for you. 

I have an AXA on my 9" south bend tool height 1" with a 3/8 bit installed and I can still lower the tool holder about a 1/4 inch. 

Aloris tool post sizes posted here. 
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p2-3.pdf
Tin


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 18, 2010)

This is what my topslide looks like from above (with the old toolpost and handle setting in the background) and from underneath where the head of the bolt sets. That cavity for the bolt head is 0.640" wide x 1.042" long x 0.159" deep and the thru hole for the bolt is 0.410" dia.--And I just realized that I have a 0.100" spacer in there betwen the two peices, so the center distance from the center of the chuck down to where my toolpost sets would be 1" if I take that home made spacer out.


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## kcmillin (Dec 18, 2010)

Brian, that should work. 

You might have to machine a longer bolt (depending on how tall the QCTP is)

Also, a sleeve might be required if the bolt is smaller than the one that comes with the QCTP. 

The bolt that came with my 200 series is quite a bit larger than the one on your lathe. The nut on the top is 1". 

If I were you, I would go with the 100 series. My mini lathe is setup close to how yours is with one exception. Instead of a slotted hole for a bolt in the compound, there is a threaded hole.

Again, this is all just a guess, I do not know what comes with every QCTP kit.

There might even be one that is specifically made for your lathe.

Kel


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## steamer (Dec 18, 2010)

Hi Brian,

Here you go.






The holder is a 250-107 which I believe is a 5/8" holder. The bottom is 1/4" from the top of the compound.

Sorry about the chips...... :-[

Dave


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## Stan (Dec 19, 2010)

kcmilin has mixed up his numbers. QCTP are identified as series #100, 200, 300 and 400 which correspond to AXA, BXA,CXA and DXA

For a 10" lathe use a series 100 or AXA. 

That size on a 10" lathe should allow the use of tool bits from 1/4" to 1/2" square without using shims or machining the tool holder. The vertical adjustment on the tool holder will compensate for the different sizes.

 My Aloris tool holders are .450" to the bottom of the tool slot so you might not be able to use 1/2" tools on your lathe (.450 + .500) if your lathe center is just .900" above the compound. Import tool holders may vary slightly in that dimension.


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 19, 2010)

Stan: Phase II recommends the 100 size for 9"-12" swing and 200 for 10" -15" 
http://www.phase2plus.com/details.asp?pr=QUICK_CHANGE_TOOL_POST&id=51
bottom line is you need to read the dimensions and see if it really fits your lathe. 
I used my axa on my 7 x 10 for a while before I got the south bend .I bought the cut down compound. then I changed over to a A2Z CNC scaled down aluminum job on the mini lathe.
I do think we are all in agreement that the AXA - 100 series is what Brian needs. 
Tin


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## kcmillin (Dec 19, 2010)

Stan  said:
			
		

> kcmilin has mixed up his numbers. QCTP are identified as series #100, 200, 300 and 400 which correspond to AXA, BXA,CXA and DXA



Ahhhh, I should do a little research before I open my mouth. :noidea:

 I thought AXA was just what they all were called. I think you can get the Jist of what I was saying though.

Kel

PS, my QCTP has "200-250" etched on it.


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 19, 2010)

Aloris brand uses AXA, BXA, CXA etc to designate sizes. Phase II brand uses 100, 200 ,300 to designate theirs. axa and 100 are interchangeable. the knockoffs may uses either designation. I have used Chinese 100 on my Aloris axa. I had to take a couple to the belt sander to make them fit but no big deal. The only downside I see to the import tool holders is the set screws are junk. but that is an easy upgrade. 
The only down side to Aloris is the price. Top notch Made in New Jersey USA. 
Tin


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## jpeter (Dec 19, 2010)

Everyone's talking about buying one but I made the one laid out in Home Shop Machinist a few years ago, Jan/Feb 2008. It works really well and I had the fun of making it. It fits perfectly on my 11 inch Sheldon lathe.


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## shred (Dec 19, 2010)

2nd the rec for an AXA / 100-size QCTP. I've got both and the 200 / BXA is too big for a 10" lathe unless it's a really hefty lathe.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 24, 2010)

Hurray!!! My Christmas present from George Bulliss over at Home Shop Machinist showed up in the mail today. I'll be ordering a qctp on Tuesday.


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## steamer (Dec 24, 2010)

Your gonna be happier than a tornado in a trailer park!....... ;D

Dave


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 5, 2011)

I just received notice that my quick change toolpost is in at the post office-----But I can't pick it up untill after 5:00 PM.---Looking foreward to this----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 5, 2011)

So here's what was in the box. Two tool holders, a cut off blade holder, a knurling tool and a boring tool holder. The boring tool holder is for a 3/4" shank boring tool with a split bushing in it to accept 5/8" shank boring bars. This will be a problem, because the boring tools I have that fit my boring head on the mill are all 1/2" shank.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 5, 2011)

The main thru-bolt is a monster, at 0.558" dia. the plate it screws into is 2.24" x 2.519" x 1/2" thick. I can only assume that I will have to open up the existing 0.410 dia. hole in my topslide to about 0.568 to give a bit of clearance. The existing 0.640" x 1.042" slot in the underside of my topslide will have to be opened up, probably to at least 0.750" wide x 1.042" long, and the plate milled down to 0.874" square to fit fit into the slot.--I just tested the plate with a hacksaw, and its soft, so that shouldn't be a problem.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 5, 2011)

At a very quick glance with the new QCTP just setting in place, it looks like the height will be about perfect. Keep in mind that I have a 0.100 spacer under my topslide right now, so the whole topslide including the quick change toolpost will set down another 0.100" when the spacer is removed.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 5, 2011)

Will post more tomorrow. Its looking good so far.---Brian


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## ironman (Jan 5, 2011)

Brian, somebody probably makes a sleeve 5/8 to 1/2 to use 1/2 inch dia Boring bars. I made mine from 5/8 Drill Rod. Step Drilled it to 1/2 dia. then slit it. Works fine. Also did one to tahe my 3/8 boring bar. ironman


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## steamer (Jan 5, 2011)

Additionlly, you could put a sleeve in the tool post and use a small clamp bolt....just a thought.


Dave


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## rklopp (Jan 6, 2011)

I hold 1/2" boring bars in the V of the BXA2 type tool block rather than trying to sleeve down the boring bar holder. The latter is probably a more rigid setup, but my way works OK for what I do. Will a 1/2" bar fit in the V of your #2 holder?


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 6, 2011)

I have opened up the hole through my toplide to suit the diameter of the new centerbolt and milled the slot larger for the new nut. Unfortunately, my topslide has a round, 0.189" deep counterbore on the far side which means I could only go about 0.025" deeper with the recess for the nut, as I didn't want to thin down the web of material between the two recesses enough to weaken it. The recess for the nut is only 0.183" deep now, and thats not enough to hold a threaded connection. What I will do is mill the plate down to that thickness, put a good 45 degree chamfer on the head of the centerbolt and weld it all around the plate. The threaded connection will keep it square and true, and the weld will keep the threads from pulling out under stress.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 6, 2011)

There isn't very much left of that 2" x 1/2' plate, but what there is left is a good fit into the recess prepared for it. I caught about 3 threads of the post, and welded all the way around it.---It shouldn't pull out!!! I can still remove the plate and post if I want to.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 6, 2011)

Looks good Brian. That should hold together and stand up to normal clamping pressure.

I had the impression that your lathe was the Busy-bee Emco clone 9x20. Looking at the tool post it seems that you have the Prazi clone? 10x18, is that correct?

Was just curios. Never saw a full shot of your lathe.

-MB


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 6, 2011)

Its the Busybee B2227L  10 x 18. I don't know what it may be a clone of.----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 6, 2011)

So there we are--All buttoned up and finished. The fit seems fine, as far as tool height is concerned. I will obviously have to do some playing around with it untill I get a feel for adjustment, etcetera, but the installation went fine.


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## Groomengineering (Jan 7, 2011)

Looks good Brian. Thm: I bet you'll love it. The only problem is you can never have enough holders.  Gives you something to do between projects though......

Cheers

Jeff


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## kjk (Jan 7, 2011)

Interesting Thread Brian. I have the same lathe and may do something similar.

Is the stop assembly on your lathe which appears in that last photo your own design? Did you post a build thread on it?


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 7, 2011)

And what would any new tool report be worth without some feedback as to what it cost and how well it worked? The quick change toolpost and holder set that I bought at Little Machine Shop was item #2280, and retailed for $155.00. I see on the invoice a $5.00 charge for handling?? and a $27.95 charge for shipping---Now we're up to $187.95, and when I picked it up at the post office I got to pay $26.00 for the privelage of being a Canadian citizen (taxes).----So----Call it a round $214.00 my cost. The tools seem very well made, from steel, not aluminum, and a very nice black oxide finish on all of the non mating surfaces. The holders are not hardened, as I checked with a hacksaw---(more on that later.)
The holders are 2.95" long, with 4 set screws each to clamp the cutting tool. The slot to hold the tool is 0.553" wide, and 0.445" deep, so they would hold a 1/2" square shank tool, but are perfect for a 3/8" square cutting tool. With a 3/8" square cutting tool in the holder, I can lower the holder untill the tip of the cutting tool is about 0.247 below the center of my chuck, so probably a 1/2" square tool would fit but you would have very little downward adjustment left. The two toolholders are great. The cut-off tool holder slot is 0.546" wide x 0.192 deep, and seems to hold my 1/2" x 1/8" cut off tool just fine. It has a sliding wedge type affair to clamp the cutting tool in place, and it works---I cut off a peice of 1/2" diameter steel just to test it. The knurling tool seems to be functionally useless, as its the type where you have to use the compound rest crossfeed to push it into the work to create the knurl.---However, the good news is that it already has a 0.553" wide x .445" deep slot half the length of itself, with 2 setscrews. I tested it with my hacksaw and its soft, so probably I will cut the knurling end off it, mill the slot all the way through, and add two more set screws to make a third tool holder. My old "squeeze type" knurler had a rectangular shank .409 thick x 0.625" deep---A quick trip over to the mill and the 0.625" was quickly reduced to 0.530" so it would fit into one of the new toolholders. I didn't do any testing of the boring tool holder, as I will have to make a split bushing to hold my 1/2" shank boring tools. What I didn't realize untill right now are the trade offs involved with a quick change toolpost as opposed to the other type which came on my lathe. With my old holder, you had to mess around with different thicknesses of shims to get the cutting tool set at the correct height----BUT--- You could loosen off the handle without a wrench and rotate the whole toolpost to easily achieve whatever angle of contact the tool had with the peice being turned, then lock it in place again via the handle---No wrench required. With the new Quick Change Toolpost, its exactly the opposite. Tool height adjustment is very quick and easy, but to change the aspect of tool to workpeice, you need a wrench to loosen off the toolpost bolt in order to rotate it into the proper position, then again the wrench is required to lock it in place. Only time will tell how much of an agravation that is going tobe. So, there you have it. My first tool review of 2011.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 7, 2011)

Woodguy  said:
			
		

> Interesting Thread Brian. I have the same lathe and may do something similar.
> 
> Is the stop assembly on your lathe which appears in that last photo your own design? Did you post a build thread on it?


Yes, and Yes--There is a thread SOMEWHERE on this forum showing the step by step procedure to build it. It works great.----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 7, 2011)

Alls well that ends well----I made up a split bushing from a peice of 3/4" dia. mild steel round bar, 3" long, then drilled and remed it to 1/2" inside dia. I split one side full length on the bandsaw and put it into the boring tool holder. It grips my 1/2" shank boring bars just fine-----I bored out an existing hole in a peice of stock to see if the tool stayed aligned and didn't turn in the holder, but its as steady as a rock.


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## shred (Jan 7, 2011)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Tool height adjustment is very quick and easy, but to change the aspect of tool to workpeice, you need a wrench to loosen off the toolpost bolt in order to rotate it into the proper position, then again the wrench is required to lock it in place. Only time will tell how much of an agravation that is going tobe.


I keep a socket and driver handy (make from 1/2" steel square stock unless you have a spare ratchet) to adjust my toolpost, though prefer to keep it square to the compound as much as possible.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 7, 2011)

Brian, here's another idea. I saw it used somewhere on the internet.

Cut a cheap ratchet down to about 3" to 4", or use a stubby ratchet. 

This will allow you to keep it out of the way, but in place and handy! :idea:

-MB


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## swilliams (Jan 7, 2011)

MB, you can also buy fancy handles to do that job. E.g.

http://www.monroeengineering.com/adjustable_handles/page002.htm

You can get ones with female thread, rather than the male thread shown in the link.

The handle is spring loaded. To adjust it you lift it up, then it freely rotates, when you let the spring pull it back down it locks in position. The Australian company Hercus used to have them as part of the standard arrangement on their lathes at one point. They were good handles.

Steve


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 8, 2011)

This may not be the perfect solution to the wrench requirement for turning the direction the toolpost is facing, but it comes darn close. I had an old set of 3/8" drive sockets that I inherited from my dad. I took the 3/4" socket, which fits the nut on top of my toolpost, and drilled the center out to 0.570", to clear the post, made up a handle out of 5/8" steel stock, and welded them together. Now the handle lives "in place" all the time, and doesn't bounce off nor flop around, it clears everything, and if I want to, I can lift it off and hang it up somewhere.


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## doubleboost (Jan 8, 2011)

I use the same tool post on my boxford this is what i ended up with









I also softened some large tools i had and machined them to fit the tool post


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## tel (Jan 8, 2011)

WARNING - TOOL ENVY!!!!

I'd kill for that Boxford!


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## Blogwitch (Jan 8, 2011)

Can anyone explain to me why everyone seems not to have their compound slide square to the cross slide, and why, if you grind up your tools to the correct angles or use tipped tooling, do you always swing your QCTP around the place rather than being perfectly square to the job, as Doubleboost shows on his lathe, which the tools are designed to be used at.

I use my compound a lot for taking accurate cuts off a face, or turning stepped shoulders in conjunction with a saddle stop, which you can't do, without resorting to calculations of angles.

The only time mine goes off square is when I am either taper turning or thread cutting, or when I require very fine feeds for toolpost grinding. So really I don't need the extra handle on top that everyone seems to crave for. I just use a normal spanner on the nut on the rare occasion it is called for.

It might just be me, but you seem to be losing one half of your quickly set accurate settings by moving things around so much, and you are also not presenting the cutting tools to the job at the correct angles. Maybe that is why there is a plethora of people having troubles with such things as parting off and bad surface finishes, or even just getting down to accurate sizes.

Or is it being done because you don't grind up the correct tools for the job in the first place, and are trying to make one tool do the job of several?

This has baffled me for many years why so many people do it this way.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 8, 2011)

Bogs---In days of old, (when I was about 15 years old) in "metal shop" at school, we were taught to have the top slide set at about 30 degrees swing to the right of the bottom slide. I have no particular idea why.---And you are absolutely correct----When set that way, the tool is not even close to being in the correct rotational aspect to the workpeice, so to compensate for that fact, one must then rotate the toolholder. About the only thing I can say in favour of having it set that way, is that it gains you a great deal more clearance from the tailstock, if the bed of your lathe is not a long one.


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 8, 2011)

> we were taught to have the top slide set at about 30 degrees swing to the right of the bottom slide.


The 29 1/2 degree angle is for threading. 
IIRC if you set the compound at 10 degrees 1 thou on the compound will advance the tool .0001 this comes in handy for doing precision pistons and bores for Stirling engines etc. 
Tin


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## doc1955 (Jan 8, 2011)

Correct Tin!! 
 It is so that in threading or single pointing when you advance tool into material you only cut on the leading edge of tool. This will result in a much stronger thread and not a torn thread. I also use the 10 degree for when I'm trying to hold very tight tolerance an parts.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 8, 2011)

There is a big thread on topslide angles over on "that other site" right now. it seems that the north american way is what I have been taught all those years ago, and the reason is mainly the "default" position for thread cutting.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=45736


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 8, 2011)

I just finished turning the knurling tool that comes with the "kit" into a third tool holder. That material, whatever the toolholders is made of---can be cut with HSS tooling, but its tougher than whalebone.--I cut the end with the knurling wheels off with my bandsaw. I should have had carbide endmills to cut the slot through all the way----My 3/8" HSS endmill needs to go for sharpening now. I ended up having to carbide drill the holes through for two additional set screws, and fortunately I had a brand new M8-1.5 tap. so---I have a third lathe cutting tool holder now. If I'd known how difficult it was going to be to mill and drill the existing one I might have started with a fresh peice of 1018/1020 mild steel and made the whole thing.-Aw well, what the heck---wife and grand daughter have went to the show to see a kids movie. I didn't have anything else to amuse myself with this evening anyways.


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## jpeter (Jan 9, 2011)

Regarding the angle of the tool holder, I like it at 30 degrees for the following; the knobs don't get in the way of each other and for facing, an advance of 1 unit of the compound moves you 1/2 unit closer to the headstock. Its the old Pythagorean theorem thing.


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## Saskford (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for starting this thread Brian.
I have been thinking of adding a quick change tool post to my lathe which is the same as yours, but I am not as brave as you when it comes to modifying the existing parts. From what you have seen, would it be possible to modify a longer bolt to match the way the existing one mounts and then make a collar to adapt it to the new tool post? You mentioned having to use a wrench now to adjust it. Would it be possible to make an adjusting handle like your original one? 
Gary


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 10, 2011)

Gary---I ran this post over on "that other website" and some folks have done exactly what you are talking about. Jump over and have a look.---Brian
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=45701


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## kjk (Jan 10, 2011)

Would this do the trick? http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3712&category=


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## Saskford (Jan 12, 2011)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Gary---I ran this post over on "that other website" and some folks have done exactly what you are talking about. Jump over and have a look.---Brian
> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=45701


Thanks for the link Brian, that is exactly what I was thinking of.
Gary


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## Saskford (Jan 12, 2011)

Woodguy  said:
			
		

> Would this do the trick? http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3712&category=


It might do the job but they say it is for the 9" lathe so it may not be long enough for a 10".
Gary


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## kjk (Jan 12, 2011)

I have the BusyBee 10x18 and when I posted the link I had not checked the thread on the toolpost bolt. It isn't 8mm - it is 10mm.

If you wanted to make such an adapter I suppose you could do it as the AXA used 9/16.


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## steamer (Jan 13, 2011)

HI Brian,

Glad its all working out with the toolpost.

I leave my compound at 30 degrees but I leave my AXA square to the spindle axis.

I never have to set a threading tool square....just put it in the holder, get it on center of the bar and drop it in.

I too don't like the knurl, but interstingly enough they are removeable on mine and I have some better quality knurls that I could use...

Dave


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## caddy (Jan 13, 2011)

Brian:
Put me down as a staunch supporter of the Aloris AXA. I've been using mine for many years and have never had a problem of any kind with it. The biggest negative I can think of is the initial cost.
Caddy


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 19, 2011)

Just a quick follow up post on this qctp. It takes a bit of getting used to, and as someone pointed out, you can never have enough tool holders. The other day I made the finger screws for attaching the battery leads to my kerzel engine. This involved turning a diameter, knurling, turning a taper, and using a cut off tool. Three tool changes in all with two "toolholder angle" changes. It was a pure pleasure to use. The nice thing about it is that once a tool is set up at the correct height in the holder, and locked, you never have to monkey around with spacers again, no matter how many times you change that tool, untill the time comes when you have to remove the tool from its specific holder to resharpen it. I really like the tool, and though it is not a definite must for the hobby machinist, it certainly removes a lot of the friggery and set-up each time a tool is changed.


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## Saskford (Jan 19, 2011)

Brian
Have you checked out the tool holders at this place?
http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php
At $8 each the price is right.
Gary


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