# Old School Automation



## rake60 (Jan 12, 2012)

Way back in 1978 I got my very first _"machinist"_ job as a production machine operator.

I ran secondary machines. 
That is to say, we did the finish machine work that the automatic machines couldn't do.

Today a CNC machine changes tool and takes them to the work piece.
In 1978 the machine took the work piece to the tools.

The machines of choice were multi-spindle automatic screw machines.
You load the spindle feed tubes with 20 foot long bars of steel.
The machine would index those tubes and spindles around to each position where a tool
or set of tools would perform its designated operation.
The final position would cut the finished part off.

I happened a video of a 6 spindle automatic screw machine in use on YouTube.
It looks pretty old fashioned today, but they sure made a lot of parts in their day!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om613Cfp0Ag[/ame]

Micro switches, relays, die heads, tapping heads, fine thread adjusting screws.....
You needed to be part machinist, part electrician, part plumber, part mechanic
and a little bit of magician wouldn't hurt. 

In some strange way, I kind of miss those old automatic screw machines. 

Rick


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## Stan (Jan 12, 2012)

I never saw one of those but I'm thinking the next step up from that must have been the pegboard programmed lathe. In the early seventies I used to do service calls on a lathe that had two turrets and hundreds of relays The operator programmed it by putting pins in a big pegboard. I knew nothing about the operation, just had to fix the electronics.


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## maverick (Jan 12, 2012)

Those multi spindle machines are fun to watch. Imagine the noise of 6 in a row all running valve bodies made of inch and a half hex brass.
  Even making a fairly complex part, the cycle time was only 10 to 15 seconds! CNCs can't touch them. The big problem is setup time,
  usually 2-3 shifts as well as custom ground form tools and cams. Also the runs took weeks, can't remember the quantities but there 
  were pallet loads of parts. This doesn't happen anymore with just in time inventory.


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## Ken I (Jan 13, 2012)

Rick,
    I used to run a shop full of such things, multi and single spindle as well as sliding head autos - Wickman, Index, Traub, Bechler, Tornos etc. etc. I used to design the cam sets for them.

Ahh the good old days - those machine will still knock the spots off an NC on most jobs - but in todays day and age of quick changeovers, small batches and flexibility are as outdated as the dinosaur.

Many shops still use them but minimum order quantities are thousands. There are of course now NC multis as well.

I saw a custom built 5 spinde multi at Timken bearings UK that had a spindle capacity of 8" - a monster used for turning bearing rings from tube stock - damn thing was the size of a house.

Ken


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## rake60 (Jan 13, 2012)

I can remember one part that everybody in the plant hated to see on the schedule. 

It was made from hex stock in an eight spindle machine.
When you had eight 20 foot lengths of hex stock spinning and rattling around in 
the feed tubes it could be hard to stay focused.

They had one machine that had only four spindles.
It could run up to 5" diameter material. 
The mechanization that indexed the feed tubes and spindles was a heavy weight on a 
chain. A few times every shift, two men had to hand crank that weight back up about
5 feet. Those were days of working for a paycheck!

There was a running joke about that machine.
_"There are only two of these machines left in the world. The other one in in a museum."_ :

Rick


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## Teza (Jan 21, 2012)

Hi Rick

There is a shop running a whole shed full of those machines near me, making hydraulic fittings. Their scrap bin is a Candy shop of bar ends 12L14 and such ;D
Terry


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## rake60 (Jan 21, 2012)

Swarfdweller  said:
			
		

> Hi Rick
> 
> There is a shop running a whole shed full of those machines near me, making hydraulic fittings. Their scrap bin is a Candy shop of bar ends 12L14 and such ;D
> Terry



Terry you have a gold mine there! Thm:

Rick


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## Bill Gruby (Feb 1, 2012)

Just found this thread and it sure brings back memories. I repaired and serviced New Britains and Acme Grigleys for 30 years. Some of the Acme Gridley Machines were marked Property of the Brooklyn Navy Yard. LOL We had Ac.e Gridleys up to 10 inch. All New Britains were 1 inch 60s. Also had Brown & Sharpe "00". Boy Howdy those were the days. They are still running them at GM in Sandusky Ohio. We ran them till the GM Plant here in Bristol closed the doors in 1995.

 Thanks for the memories.

 "Billy G" :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## rake60 (Feb 1, 2012)

Bill a few of the old screw machine in the plant I worked at in the 1970's still had 
brass tags that read "Property of US Navy" attached to them.

Rick


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## Bill Gruby (Feb 1, 2012)

Rick -- You got me thinking so I went digging in my old stuff from GM. Can't believe I still had these. LOL Got them for Cincinatti Centerless Grinders also. If I look hard enough I made a belt buckle from a brass identification plate. LOL

 "Billy G"


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## Ken I (Feb 2, 2012)

Back in the day it was quite common for the military to pay for the machinery as part of the contracted price.

They could move the machinery to another supplier if they were not happy with your work or contractural performance.

Typically at the end of contract these machines could be purchased at write down value which was a steal.

The navy / whatever didn't really want them back but sometimes the contract would simply stop due to obsolesence and the machines if relatively new would go back - I'm betting there are numerous machines sitting in military storage somewhere.

Ken


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## rake60 (Feb 2, 2012)

I can remember seeing that brass "Property of US Navy" on a machine at another 
machine shop I used to work for.

It was a big old Rockford slotter identical to this one.






It had a hydraulically driven ram, and was used there for cutting big internal keyways.

The vertical boring mill that I was running at the time was right next to that slotter so
I got to watch in in action every day. Even at that time, it was an archaic machine.

The most impressive job I ever saw it turn out was a 3.002" +.002/-.000 wide X 
1.500" +.015/-.000" deep keyway cut in a gear hub that was 24" long.
It took 4 days for the operator to cut that keyway complete and to specs.

That machine did not have a clapper head on the ram so there was no mechanical relief on the tool
as it came back up after each cutting pass. The machinist had to grind his own tools to fit the need 
out of plain old High Speed Tool Steel blanks.

Too little relief and the tool would drag heavily on the up stroke ripping up the sides. 
If there was too much relief the cutting edge to burn up or chip.

I have had the genuine pleasure to work with some true master machinists over the past 30 years.
I'm still amazed by accuracy they could squeeze out of some very tired old machines. 

The old school technology can still works with an old school operator at the controls.

Rick


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## Mo deller (Feb 3, 2012)

Back in the 80's during a spell of unemployment I did a 6 month capstan setting/operating course and got to programme a Ward plugboard machine. Great fun. 

Peter.


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## Dirtfan1981 (Feb 3, 2012)

Well I'm new to the site but came acros this thread.  I am a multi spindle operation, repair,setup guy alittle bit everything on acme gridley 6 and 8 spindle from 9/16 to 2 5/8. I love it to death. We run brass so cycle times are from 2.5 sec per part. Amazed at the amount of thoughts that went in to these machines back in the day. We used to have a 51 mod new britian with world war tag.


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