# Poor Man's Dividing Head



## gus (Jun 21, 2013)

As I am at the far end of the supply line,some items are hard to buy. Some USA/UK vendors will not ship to Singapore.Small gears are hard to get. So make your own that is D.I.Y. To D.I.Y. gears I must DIY
Dividing Head which cost a bomb to DHL in from LMS.

Dividing Head ------a poor copy of Harold Hall's DH.

See attached foto of Harold Hall's DH and plans.

The finished DH will end as  "no look alike" Harold's DH.

Material came from the scrap or left-over bins. Mini Chuck bought while shopping in HongKong. The Hex Bolt came from nuts& bolts shop at dollar a piece.

Local Time now 8:00 am Friday 21st June  2013.


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## gus (Jun 21, 2013)

Been working hard. Darling wife advised -----" Outside Activities". Haze now at 400 PSI. So work at home.


Local Time : 12 noon  June 21 2013.
Turn hex bolt to make chuck arbor. SAE Grade 5 Bolts cuts very well at 600 rpm with HSS cutter and Tapmatic 
Tapping Oil. No drawings just a cartoon sketch.
By noon finished the chuck arbor and assembled.No reworks.All dimensions on the dot. 
See foto.


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## gus (Jun 21, 2013)

Start work at 1pm. Cut 1 1/2" Square bar to length for DH Column. When you have a BandSaw,cutting is 
a pleasure w/o panting away dragging a manual hacksaw. Cut nearest scribe lines to minimise waste.
Fotos shows a bandsaw cut v/s a manual hacksaw cut. 
The Makita Portable Bandsaw made vertical and stationary was a good shop investment.

Rough Mill cuts both ends in no time. Been using roughing mills at my last job.But they used to come no smaller than 1 " back in the 90s. Found 12 mm mills from "richontools". Normal 4F mills do not cut well on the sides.
Japanese Roughing Mills gives a medium finish but this Chinese Roughing Mill requires a rework with standard mill for better finish.


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## gus (Jun 21, 2013)

5PM.
Been working smart and fast with no rejects or rework.
DH completed and assembled. A Chinese Orbital Sander helped polish uo the DH column.

Poor Man's Dividing Head done, Please take a look at the blank dividing plate  aka poor man's D.Plate.
What is left now is the arbor for the gear cutter. Looks like come next week,gear cutting lesson cum
practice will begin.
Been a very productive day.The 400+ Haze did not bother me too much.


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## gus (Jun 21, 2013)

Here is a better shot of the DH at different angle. Hopefully this DH will help Gus cut good gears.


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## ZipSnipe (Jun 21, 2013)

Looks great Gus, is that a 2 inch chuck? or maybe where your at its in millimeter equivlent?

Also are you using a gear for divisions or will you drill holes and make a dividing plate for it?


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## cfellows (Jun 21, 2013)

That oughta do the job.  Nice work.

Chuck


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## ShedBoy (Jun 21, 2013)

WOW! great work Gus. Should be twisting gears out in no time.

Brock


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 21, 2013)

Amazing stuff Gus. There is something very significant about doing the worlds shortest project on the years longest day!!! I have sweat enough blood cutting my own gears that I have developed a "fair" working knowledge of gear cutting, although mine are 24DP.  If you have any questions, I can probably help.---Brian


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## gus (Jun 21, 2013)

ShedBoy said:


> WOW! great work Gus. Should be twisting gears out in no time.
> 
> Brock




Hi Brock,
You may be right. Your advice is J.I.T. Will take precaution to avoid gear blank
pulled out or bent. For this good reason I bought a Sakai ML360 mini lathe that came with a 3 " chuck. The 84mm chuck is made of steel.There are cheapy chucks sold made of aluminium.

Relax.I am only cutting Module 0.8 gears.

Will 25t gear and DH when job gets done.


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## gus (Jun 21, 2013)

ZipSnipe said:


> Looks great Gus, is that a 2 inch chuck? or maybe where your at its in millimeter equivlent?
> 
> Also are you using a gear for divisions or will you drill holes and make a dividing plate for it?




Hi ZipSnipe.

Chuck is 64mm. Will be using an existing 50T gear as divider to cut a 25T
dividing plate.Same exercise is to train Gus to cut gear.


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## Shawn (Jun 21, 2013)

Hi Gus, I think you misunderstood Brock, he was saying you will be able to make lots of gears in no time. He was just using slang terminology. 

Shawn

Edit: the DH looks awesome : )


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## AussieJimG (Jun 21, 2013)

Gus, you are an inspiration!!

Jim


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## gus (Jun 22, 2013)

Shawn said:


> Hi Gus, I think you misunderstood Brock, he was saying you will be able to make lots of gears in no time. He was just using slang terminology.
> 
> Shawn
> 
> Edit: the DH looks awesome : )



Hi Shawn,

No offence meant. 

Gus is Chinese speaking/educated. English is second language.The way we speak English in Singapore can be hard to comprehend.
Poor China students come to Singapore to brush their English and ended up speaking "Singlish".The Singapore Goverment is trying hard to get us to speak good English.

Spent some time working in Kentucky,USA. Had a hard time too understanding the locals. The Kentuckians are very friendly.They mistook Gus as Japanese. Some even spoke Japanese to me. I had a hrad time trying hard no to embarass these nice country folks. Oh .I love their country ham and potatato skins.

Have heard of reports of jobs pulled out of 64 mm chucks. Just took a good hard look at the DH. A tail stock is a must to prevent deflection.Though I may take a very cautious approach just cutting one groove or tooth.

Did have a hard time years back in Australia. The "Ozz" English can be hard to comprehend.After so many holidays there,Gus can speak bit Ozenglish.


Regards,

Gus Teng.


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## gus (Jun 22, 2013)

Another productive morning. Used a discarded Grade 8 blank hex bolt to make the gear cutter arbor as per "Bush Engineering Plans/sketch.The hex head was hard to skim down to 27mm. Fortunately the shank was not to hard to skim down to 12mm. 
Arbor completed and assembled by 12 noon.
Have yet to figure out the dividing plate and stops.
See fotos.


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## Hopper (Jun 22, 2013)

gus said:


> See attached foto of Harold Hall's DH and plans.



Looks like an interesting project.
Which of Harold's books is that? His milling book, or the workshop projects book?


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## moya034 (Jun 22, 2013)

Gus, I really enjoy your work. Particularly because certain things for you are hard to get and you are good at getting the job done despite the circumstances. Also, I'm amazed how fast you work too!


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## aarggh (Jun 22, 2013)

gus said:


> Did have a hard time years back in Australia. The &quot;Ozz&quot; English can be hard to comprehend.After so many holidays there,Gus can speak bit Ozenglish.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> ...



 That's alright Gus, even I find others here in OZ hard to follow sometimes mate!  cheers, Ian


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## gus (Jun 22, 2013)

AussieJimG said:


> Gus, you are an inspiration!!
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim,

A D.Head cost a bomb. Since I am only cutting very small Metric Module 0.8  gears .See no point in buying a US$400 Dividing Head from LMS.

A bit more work to do before the 25T pinion gear can materialise.

A gear tooth engaging device is next to make. See foto of W.I.P. at 6pm today with the haze still raging. Darling wife does not want hubby killed by the bad haze now hovering at 150-----200 PSI(Particle Standard Index).
Still very unhealthy.

 Had two very productive days.

Tomorrow fishing. Been very dry.Expect water to be pristine and fish aplenty
and hungry.


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## aarggh (Jun 22, 2013)

She cares Gus! That's always a good sign mate!

cheers, Ian


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## ShedBoy (Jun 22, 2013)

Shawn said:


> Hi Gus, I think you misunderstood Brock, he was saying you will be able to make lots of gears in no time. He was just using slang terminology.
> 
> Shawn
> 
> Edit: the DH looks awesome : )


Your right Shawn just a turn of phrase. I was amazed at how easy gear cutting is.

I am sure you will prosper Gus.

Brock


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## gus (Jun 23, 2013)

Hopper said:


> Looks like an interesting project.
> Which of Harold's books is that? His milling book, or the workshop projects book?



Hi Hopper,

The "Milling,A Complete Course was used a reference but I took short cut and substituted to suit my requirement and urgency. In fact ,I found all Harold's books to be very useful.


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 23, 2013)

> -a poor copy of Harold Hall's DH.



Why do you say a poor copy? Interesting to see what Harold's comments are. He does stop in from time to time looks good to me. 
Tin


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## gus (Jun 23, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> Why do you say a poor copy? Interesting to see what Harold's comments are. He does stop in from time to time looks good to me.
> Tin



Hi Tin,

I have deviated from Harold Hall's drawings. Harold could hardly recognise this D.Head other the split clamps. Need to have a DH up and going quick and fast.
Used the band saw to slit column. Couldn't believe Gus can saw straight and tidy. A circular slit saw would take ages.:wall::wall:

Hopefully I can cut  the pinion gear tomorrow.


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## OrangeAlpine (Jun 23, 2013)

Gus, don't feel bad about not understanding the Kentucky language.  Some of it is rather obscure.  I was raised among Kentuckians and consider myself fluent in their language, but sometimes hear a dialect that gives me problems.

I swear some of them speak a totally different language.  Dad thought maybe it was Welch.  He might be right.

Bill


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## gus (Jun 24, 2013)

OrangeAlpine said:


> Gus, don't feel bad about not understanding the Kentucky language.  Some of it is rather obscure.  I was raised among Kentuckians and consider myself fluent in their language, but sometimes hear a dialect that gives me problems.
> 
> I swear some of them speak a totally different language.  Dad thought maybe it was Welch.  He might be right.
> 
> Bill




Hi Bill,
I spent some time on and off at the Ingersoll-Rand Small Compressor plant,Campbellsville.Till today I failed to say "Thirteen" correctly in their dialect. Every one on the shop floor would laugh at poor Gus who can't get it right. But I got "Garbage" sound right. Thirteen not done yet. Pehaps I did not eat enough "Country ham".
But Country Ham makes me very thirsty. Was planning to fly to Louisville and drive over to C'ville to see some old friends and bosses. Trying to make a few more  $$$$  to buy air tickets. Missed Crappy fishing.Missed the $6 per barrel country apples.Missed the yard sales.

Best Regards,

Gus Teng.


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## gus (Jun 24, 2013)

At long last,the D Head is 100% done. Index arm and pin done.Will teach myself to cut gears tomorrow.Hopefully the gear cutter is just like the endmill.Will use sample gear as dividing plate.
Will be success or disastrous castrophy.:wall:
See fotos.

Will cheat wee bit.Use aluminium to teat D.H. structural strength and 
clamping force of 64mm chuck. Try hard not to take too ambitous cut depth and feed rate.


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## gus (Jun 25, 2013)

Happily,installed D.Head on to Mill to cut my very first pinion. No way.I need a tail stock centre to hold on to gear blank to secure and prevent same from bending and twisting out the 64mm chuck.
Start work to rush build a tail stock centre with whatever material available from leftovers or scrap bin.
By 6 pm tail stock 99% done except tidying up.
Tomorrow will ''D'' day-------setup to cut pinion. See fotos---------cheapy tail stock center.


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## rodw (Jun 25, 2013)

gus said:


> Happily,installed D.Head on to Mill to cut my very first pinion. No way.I need a tail stock centre to hold on to gear blank to secure and prevent same from bending and twisting out the 64mm chuck.
> Start work to rush build a tail stock centre with whatever material available from leftovers or scrap bin.
> By 6 pm tail stock 99% done except tidying up.
> Tomorrow will ''D'' day-------setup to cut pinion. See fotos---------cheapy tail stock center.



Very interesting to see this come together for you Gus! I was watching Youtube the other day and the guy was cutting his gear on a mandrel between centres. Might be one more thing you need to make...


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## gus (Jun 26, 2013)

rodw said:


> Very interesting to see this come together for you Gus! I was watching Youtube the other day and the guy was cutting his gear on a mandrel between centres. Might be one more thing you need to make...



Hi Rod,

Been practicing gear cutting. Second attempt was good and I have a perfect pinion gear done for "Webster" Going on to cut the Cam Gear.

SOS.  SOS. I cannot post fotos. Is something wrong?


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## ConductorX (Jun 26, 2013)

Gus, 

You really do nice work for the limited space you have. I think you do a good job with your English skills as well. In my current job I work with people from all over the world. I find the best thing for me is to listen carefully and ask questions to clarify. I grew up in Kentucky near Fort Knox. My father is from Mississippi and my mother from Louisiana. What a combination of good food, Cajun and Country dishes.

Take care, "G"


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## CrashedAgain (Jun 26, 2013)

There is also an excellent "poor mans" dividing head design in the June/July 2010 issue of Machinist Workshop magazine. It is called the "Modular Dividning Head" because various accessories can be added to it. A worm indexing module is featured in the Oct/Nov 2010 issue of the same magazine. I believe it is easier to build and more versatile than any other design but I am perhaps prejudiced as I designed it. It is shown here (complete with the worm indexing attachment) set up on a 7 x 12 mini lathe to cut a spur gear using a shop made flycutter.


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## radial1951 (Jun 26, 2013)

gus said:


> .... Mini Chuck bought while shopping in HongKong...



Gus, That's great work, I like your style. KISS and get the job done! Could you try posting the pic of your DH gear cutting set up again? That would be interesting.

Do you remember where in HK you bought the 3-jaw chuck and rough cost? One like that might be handy if it's reasonably accurate...

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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## Stub Mandrel (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi Gus,

I'm impressed by your dividing head. It has some interesting points in common with mine, although mine is bit too slender and I use my rotary table for most dividing work instead!

Regards

Neil


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## gus (Jun 27, 2013)

radial1951 said:


> Gus, That's great work, I like your style. KISS and get the job done! Could you try posting the pic of your DH gear cutting set up again? That would be interesting.
> 
> Do you remember where in HK you bought the 3-jaw chuck and rough cost? One like that might be handy if it's reasonably accurate...
> 
> ...



Hi Ross,

Bought it somewhere along Canton Street,Kowloon for S$60.
Concentricity not too bad. Best to have gear at Tail Stock Centre end as this would give best concentricity.


Regards,

Gus Teng.


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## gus (Jun 27, 2013)

Stub Mandrel said:


> Hi Gus,
> 
> I'm impressed by your dividing head. It has some interesting points in common with mine, although mine is bit too slender and I use my rotary table for most dividing work instead!
> 
> ...




Hi Neil,

Plan to add on a worm& wheel and dividing plate to make DH capable of cutting bigger gear tooth range. Also planning to cut the worm inhouse. Japanese Worm and wheel cost we S$50 but worth the quality.
 Been watching worms being cut in YouTube. Hope it is really that easy.
Now figuring out how to cut 40 tooth worm and best O.D.to arrive at 40 T.

Regards,

Gus.


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## gus (Jun 27, 2013)

ConductorX said:


> Gus,
> 
> You really do nice work for the limited space you have. I think you do a good job with your English skills as well. In my current job I work with people from all over the world. I find the best thing for me is to listen carefully and ask questions to clarify. I grew up in Kentucky near Fort Knox. My father is from Mississippi and my mother from Louisiana. What a combination of good food, Cajun and Country dishes.
> 
> Take care, "G"



Hi ConductorX,
Been to Fort Knox 1988 and was very impressed by the antique military equipment,weapons,tanks and helicopters etc etc. 

Saddam Hussein's tank was very big but he lost the war and his life. Was acting as chaperon to a bunch of Chinese Engineers training at Ingersoll-Rand Campbellsvile Plant. Took them to Fort Knox.Oh.They were busy taking fotos and I guess this was "Spying". Been told,way back in the 1980s,they were vetted for suitabllity and loyalty to the "Party" for selection to go USA for training. They were told to look out for US/Taiwan spies,agents and be wary. Gus was suspected of being potential Taiwanese spy.Ha Ha. Twenty years later I was told sheepishly.Ha Ha.

My first two years with Ingersoll-Rand Singapore was murder. Had hard time
understanding my American Bosses and Aussie Bosses and they too with my Singlish written/spoken.Life been interesting.

The Chinese too had a hard time with my spoken Chinese which is heavily
accented with Spore Chinese accent. After thirty years with them,Gus got
questioned-------How come I speak with North Chinese Accent.Spent four weeks in the China AeroSpace Institute working on very high pressure air compressors. Have to speak like them thru the nose and curled tongues. Gus till today cannot shake off this accent. Ha Ha. 

Spent time in India too. Working life with Ingersoll-Rand been interesting.Meeting many nationalities.

Regards,

Gus Teng.


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## gus (Jun 27, 2013)

Here are the fotos which I could not post earlier.At last my second spur gear since the very first cut 52 years ago. 
The aluminium gear looks good and I hope it runs good too. The JapaneseBrass Gear is for comparison. Same will be used with "Webster" now named Webby.
Still have two weeks of work to complete "Webby".


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## radial1951 (Jun 27, 2013)

gus said:


> Hi Ross,
> Bought it somewhere along Canton Street,Kowloon for S$60.
> Concentricity not too bad. Best to have gear at Tail Stock Centre end as this would give best concentricity.
> Regards,
> Gus Teng.



What a coincidence, last week I was 2 streets East of there in Shanghai St with a mate. We found a nice little engineering tool shop, a pleasant surprise for that area. My mate bought a couple of ER collets he needed to complete his set.

What great yarns you can tell about your working life. Very interesting. 

Just thinking about the gears I have cut...  I have read lots of books, M.E. magazines and various forums, but don't recall seeing climb milling mentioned. I have always got the best finish, especially on aluminium, by climb milling with a light cut, only a thou or two, for the final cut to size with a fine feed (and sharp cutter). I've cut quite a few gears and always semi-finish all teeth first, allow to cool if needed, then index and climb mill through every tooth space for the final size. It can also induce less vibration if the set up is not as rigid as it should be. Just a thought...

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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## Stub Mandrel (Jun 28, 2013)

HI Gus,

I made my worm & wheel in two stages. First cut two matching worm gears one to use and the other one couple of thou oversize and in silver steel (drill rod). Cut some teeth in the silver steel one and harden & temper it to make a cutter. 

Using a thin cutter (maybe a slitting saw) rough out the teeth in the worm wheel blank, at the helix angle. Now mount the worm gear blank so it can rotate freely and feed it into the cutter you made. This will take more pressure than you expect because the teeth on the cutter aren't relieved.

Tip - use free cutting (leaded) brass for the worm wheel otherwise you can end up with an extra tooth (don't ask how I know this).

For ordinary gears I cut in one pass with the cutter working normally, and then run back in the climb milling direction which puts the polish on them.

I use home made single point cutters.

Neil


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 28, 2013)

Amazing stuff, Gus.--You are doing very very good. ----Brian


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## CrashedAgain (Jun 29, 2013)

Nice gearbox, Stub Mandrel. 
What's it for?
How did you make the splines?


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## vcutajar (Jun 29, 2013)

Very nice gears Gus.  

Vince


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## cfellows (Jun 30, 2013)

Nice work on the dividing head, Gus.  I admire folks who can make nice things out of spares they have laying around the shop.  I try to do that as much as I can.

Chuck


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## gus (Jun 30, 2013)

radial1951 said:


> What a coincidence, last week I was 2 streets East of there in Shanghai St with a mate. We found a nice little engineering tool shop, a pleasant surprise for that area. My mate bought a couple of ER collets he needed to complete his set.
> 
> What great yarns you can tell about your working life. Very interesting.
> 
> ...



Hi Radial,
Climb Milling is a new term to Gus. Guesed that is down cut in British as taught by the Engilish Workshop Instructors that came to teach trade school way back in the 50s and 60s including the De Lasalle Brothers.

Just discovered down cutting aluminium in the final last thin cut with Tapmatic gives a fantastic finish.

As for the gear cutting,I got so engrossed and did not remember using up cut or down cut.

Will cut the cam today with the DIY Rotary Table. Same table will be reworked for further improvment. And the handwheel graduated.. A new hand wheel will be made.

Thanks for the support and listening to my yarn spinning. When my scout master used the term--------''spinning yarns'',  he got me running to the dictionary looking up spinning and yarns and got very confused. What has campfire gathering/singing scout songs got to do with spinning cotton/wool???
Ha Ha The Scout Master was a volunteer from the Bristish Air Force based in Colonial Singapore in the 1950s. Here goes my yarn spinning again.

Regards,

Gus. 

Fishing last sunday not so good but landed 2 fish.Rain water dampens fish bites in the Straits of Singapore.:wall::wall:


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 1, 2013)

Nice work Gus and lots of great photos too!  You've got me inspired to try gear cutting.Thm:

Cheers,
Phil


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## Stub Mandrel (Jul 1, 2013)

Hey Gus,

I always thought fishermen were the experts at 'spinning a yarn' about the 'one that hot away'! I don't suppose you get confused when spinning a lure? ;-)

@CrashedAgain the gearbox is for the 1/4 scale Forson Model F tractor which increasingly feels like a retirement project (maybe 2029???) The splines were cut with a 'Stan Bray' slotting tool (see his book in the Workshop Practice Series) but I cheated by fitting bronze bushes to the sliding gears to fit the O/D of the shafts so the bottom of the slots between the splines can be an easy fit on the shaft.

Neil


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## gus (Jul 1, 2013)

Stub Mandrel said:


> Hey Gus,
> 
> I always thought fishermen were the experts at 'spinning a yarn' about the 'one that hot away'! I don't suppose you get confused when spinning a lure? ;-)
> 
> ...




Hi Neil,
Too many big ones got away.Nearly all fishermen are yarn spinners.
Gus is totally hopeless with lures. But a mate taught me to use mini 10 gramme metal jigs. Caught some fish with this jig but they can cost S$20 for a sure fire jig. When the fish won,we lost S$20. Good jig and good bye fish.
It is true the cheap jigs don't work so well.

Neap tide this weekend and different species to go after.

Took a bunch of "high hoper" friends fishing last Sunday and how do you explain to them.They caught nothing and Gus landed 4 whoppers.
Tried explaining to them,their rods were to light and hard to spot cast to look for fish.  None want a return match. Ha Ha ha:wall::wall:


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## rodw (Jul 2, 2013)

Gus, do you have any fish up there that eat wood? 

A friend at work makes fishing lures as a hobby and I gave him some nice Queensland Maple timber and he said he would make me a lure from the timber I gave him.

So now I have this masterpiece here and have no idea what to do with it. I asked him what sort of fish it would catch and he told me it would be one that eats wood!





The photo I took with my phone does not do it justice!


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## gus (Jul 2, 2013)

rodw said:


> Gus, do you have any fish up there that eat wood?
> 
> A friend at work makes fishing lures as a hobby and I gave him some nice Queensland Maple timber and he said he would make me a lure from the timber I gave him.
> 
> ...




When you see the sea boiling with bait fish,cast this lure and give a series jerks.If the biggies are there they will slam on the lure. Be prepared for hell of a fight. I have seen it and done it but I lost the expensive lure and my pride & ego.:wall::wall::wall:


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## gus (Jul 2, 2013)

Philjoe5 said:


> Nice work Gus and lots of great photos too!  You've got me inspired to try gear cutting.Thm:
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil



Hi Phil,

The Module 0.8 and 1 gear cutters from CTC cost US$25 per set of eight.

The D.Head and Tail stock Centre were left overs. The China mini chuck was the most expensive----------S$80 as compared with the leftovers.
Word of advice.The chuck concentricity is not world best and you need the tail stock centre and mandrel to centralise.

Am looking forward to cut some more gears for other pr0jects. The mini Traction Steam Engine require a gear train refit. For now traction engine runs
too fast and temperamental.

Also planning to upgrade D.H. with worm&wheel and divider plate as per Harold Hall's prints.Will post WIP progress.

Next week Gus in Osaka,Japan shopping at the TokyuHands Hobby Shop.
Both the Fishing Equipment Shop and TokyuHands will do severe damage to my bank account.


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## Goldflash (Jul 2, 2013)

Gus I am Envious of you going to Tokyuhands 
The first time I went there I thought I had woken up in a disneyland for hobbyists. 
I could have spent a small fortune there. 
Next time I ever go there I will make sure I am alone and have plenty of money.
Ralph


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## jwcnc1911 (Jul 2, 2013)

OrangeAlpine said:


> Gus, don't feel bad about not understanding the Kentucky language.  Some of it is rather obscure.  I was raised among Kentuckians and consider myself fluent in their language, but sometimes hear a dialect that gives me problems.
> 
> I swear some of them speak a totally different language.  Dad thought maybe it was Welch.  He might be right.
> 
> Bill



HAHAHAHA!  Ever been to Louisiana?  I swear, that's not the King's English.


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## gus (Jul 3, 2013)

CrashedAgain said:


> Nice gearbox, Stub Mandrel.
> What's it for?
> How did you make the splines?



Hi CrashedAgain,
The splines were accidental byproduct of test cut on the aluminium bar. Purpose was to test the entire setup.


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## gus (Jul 3, 2013)

Goldflash said:


> Gus I am Envious of you going to Tokyuhands
> The first time I went there I thought I had woken up in a disneyland for hobbyists.
> I could have spent a small fortune there.
> Next time I ever go there I will make sure I am alone and have plenty of money.
> Ralph




Hi Ralph,

You are correct. One can spend a fortune at TokyuHands. This trip will buy no Module 0.8 and 1.0 gears since I have the CTC gear cutters and the Dividing Head and can cut my very own gears. 
 The Chinese Handtools are of very high quality and only slightly cheaper than the Japanese make.
Hopefully Gus won't go broke since he has bought most of his wants/needs.
The Nachi Twist Drills are very good buys.
Carpentry tools too are of high quality.Bought some Wood Planers and they cut very well and far superior to the Chinese make.

Will post my trip to TokyuHands.


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## Stub Mandrel (Jul 3, 2013)

I'm not sure what's fasionable in the UK now, but I used to blow plenty of money on lures, but the cheaper ones always worked best - especially simple the bent metal ones and the plain coloured feathers used for mackrel! Bringing in three mackrel on a light spinning rod and then cooking them over a smoking fire within a few minutes 

I have some ancient plug lures my brother made somewhere (he uses balsa for floating lures) - I never used them I couldn't bear losing something he made like that!

I'll see if I can find one to photograph.

Neil


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 3, 2013)

Gus,
I'm waiting for the involute 1 cutters from CTC tools.  Here's my setup"





The tailstock was made from a block of aluminum.  There's a dead center in it.  The slitting saw won't cut gears but it's there so I can check setup clearances.  The gear blanks will slip on the keyed arbor for  cutting.  The arbor will be shortened once I get the cutters and can check clearances.

Thanks for the "Gus' Gear Making" tutorial

Cheers,
Phil


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## CrashedAgain (Jul 3, 2013)

gus said:


> The Module 0.8 and 1 gear cutters from CTC cost US$25 per set of eight.



$25 for the set!!! Wow. Best price I can find is $136 on ebay.

If I could get them for that price maybe I would.....

No, probably I wouldn't. I just like "made it myself" too much.....like the flycutter cutting the gear in the photo of my dividing head above.


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 3, 2013)

I think Gus meant $125...I hope so 'cause that's what I just paid for a set from the same vendor!!!  

Gus, did you give the guys at CTC Tools some of your fresh fish for that discount??

Phil


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## CrashedAgain (Jul 3, 2013)

Gus, I have sent you a private message.......


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## robcas631 (Jul 3, 2013)

Excellent job!


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## gus (Jul 3, 2013)

Hi Phil,
Looks good.You beat me hands down in the competition---------Cheapest and nastiest dead centre!!!!.
You also have a Rolls-Royce Dividing Head. Plan to copy and make LMS D.H. using my own DIY worm and wheel.
Will be tough to keep to a small gear box housing with Scrap Material on hand.

My DIY Gear cutting took a long time to happen. Need a pinion gear for the timing gear chain badly and USA /UK vendors won't ship to Singapore.


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 3, 2013)

Gus, 



> Looks good.You beat me hands down in the competition



Not true.  You've made gears, I haven't.  

But you definitely got me going in the right direction.  I kept putting gear making off because involute gear cutters in the US tend to run about $45 each, so a set of 8 = $360.  But the CTC set of 8 = $125, so that's a good place to start learning how to make gears.  Thanks for the tip to CTC Tools

Cheers,
Phil


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## gus (Jul 4, 2013)

Philjoe5 said:


> I think Gus meant $125...I hope so 'cause that's what I just paid for a set from the same vendor!!!
> 
> Gus, did you give the guys at CTC Tools some of your fresh fish for that discount??
> 
> Phil




Sorry Guys,

Just checked CTC  Bill and its $74 per set for the Module 0.8 and $85.50 for the Module 1.


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## gus (Jul 4, 2013)

Philjoe5 said:


> Gus,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Please post the very first good gear. Watch the cut depth. I cheated.Measured a gear sample. Blunt or very sharp tooth means depth error. I am still working out depth calculation. I am wondering tooth height equals O.D.--Pitch Diameter???.


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 4, 2013)

Gus,
This is what I know so far:

 [FONT=&quot]To find diametrical pitch, DP  [/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]DP = # teeth in a gear + 2 ÷ Outside diameter[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Then I found this equation:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Depth of cut = 2.157/DP[/FONT]



  [FONT=&quot]I did the following calculation for one of the module 1 change gears for the G0602 lathe:[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]52T gear has an OD of 2.120&#8221;[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Diammetrical Pitch = 54/2.120 = 25.47[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Depth of cut = 2.157/25.47 = 0.0847&#8221; which agrees with the cut on the video[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


I watched a video of a guy on youtube cutting a module 1 gear which requires a depth of cut of 0.085".  He did it in one pass.  Seems like a hefty cut.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRmQpSGUAY8[/ame]

Is that how you cut your gear?



> Please post the very first good gear



Ah, the teacher wants to know if the student has learned his lesson

Cheers,
Phil


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## radial1951 (Jul 4, 2013)

gus said:


> ....I am still working out depth calculation. I am wondering tooth height equals O.D.--Pitch Diameter???.



Hey Gus, Below is a drawing showing the tooth proportions for Module System metric gears. (DP system inch gears have a different depth ie  2.157/DP)

The whole depth of tooth is 2.25 x m (The 0.25m is the extra depth at the bottom of the tooth space to give clearance for the teeth of the mating gear)

So, if m = 0.8 , then depth = 2.25 x 0.8 = 1.8mm (this gives 0.2mm extra depth for the clearance)

BUT be careful!! All of this assumes every dimension on the gear blank and cutter profile are PERFECT. And that includes concentricity to the bore.

If the cutter profile is correct, then the ONLY thing that really matters is the Pitch Diameter, because that determines the tooth thickness and the size of the gap between the teeth.

If you cut a whisker too deep, the teeth will be a bit thin, but the gear will still work ok, just a bit more backlash (you need a little anyway).

Keep having fun and posting, this is interesting.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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## gus (Jul 5, 2013)

radial1951 said:


> Hey Gus, Below is a drawing showing the tooth proportions for Module System metric gears. (DP system inch gears have a different depth ie  2.157/DP)
> 
> The whole depth of tooth is 2.25 x m (The 0.25m is the extra depth at the bottom of the tooth space to give clearance for the teeth of the mating gear)
> 
> ...



Hi Ross,

Thanks for the formula. I did messed and gear tooth was razor sharp but the second and final turned out OK. However the cut pinion is Module 0.8 and the big purchased gear was Module 0.75 but meshing turned out OK.


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 12, 2013)

OK Gus.  As promised, my first 2 gears, one steel one aluminum (for practice)






Thanks for the help

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 12, 2013)

This must be international gear day!!! I just made a set for my engine.---Brian


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## AussieJimG (Jul 12, 2013)

Those gears look pretty good Phil, did you use your rotary table or the borrowed one?

Jim


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 12, 2013)

Hi Jim,
Thanks.  Pics can be a bit deceiving.  The tooth profile is a little off because I didn't have the cutter height set at dead center.  

When I began making the 60T gears to go with these 30T gears I set the cutter properly and got a good profile.  But when I was cutting the 55th tooth, my rotary table 2 degree ring moved when the table didn't:wall:.  That caused me to bugger the gear 

To answer your question, yes the rotab was used to make these gears and when it's adjusted properly should work just fine.  I'll give it another try this weekend.

It's a challenge.  I don't know if my first set of gears are useable.  When I make their 60T mates I could try them out but I'm still on the learning curve.

It was good talking to you the other night.  When I can unfocus from the gear making I'll check out skype.

Cheers,
Phil


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## gus (Jul 12, 2013)

Hi Phil,

Looks good and far better looking than my very first gear which had sharp tooth. It is true plus and minus a whisker the gear profile will look odd.

Confession:
Bought 20t  30t  40t  50t 60t  gears to be used as dividers to save all the trouble of making divider plate. Trying hard to stay away from TokyuHands.I have too many hobbies and they have too many items that Gus wants to buy to satisfy his greed not his need.:wall:


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## workshopman (Jul 14, 2013)

Having arrived home from a three week holiday to the inevitable pile of correspondence and other items to attend to I eventually came to the June project of the month news letter and spotted the Poor man's dividing head which took my attention.

 Looking this up, I found Gus that you were again making your own version of one of my designs, last time I think the boring head. I must say the dividing head is looking good. For me, I get as much encouragement by someone adapting my designs to suit purpose, or to use available materials, as I do if someone follows my drawings exactly.

 The thread is rather long so I have not found the time to study it in depth, but I did notice you commented that you would need to make a tailstock for making pinions. As I have not seen a picture of a tailstock I am not sure if you have made it. If not, then you may be interested in my method which I have used very successfully.  I am not sure how to post a photograph so have added it to a blank page on my web site, here. 

The only explanation needed is that the hole must be a close fit on the pinion blank and the slot on the side of the bar is made when cutting the first gear space.

 To see the reason for me cutting pinions see here

 If I may digress may I also mention my latest addition to my website. This is  major update on my rather unconventional quick change lathe tool holders.  

 Harold Hall


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## gus (Jul 15, 2013)

workshopman said:


> Having arrived home from a three week holiday to the inevitable pile of correspondence and other items to attend to I eventually came to the June project of the month news letter and spotted the Poor man's dividing head which took my attention.
> 
> Looking this up, I found Gus that you were again making your own version of one of my designs, last time I think the boring head. I must say the dividing head is looking good. For me, I get as much encouragement by someone adapting my designs to suit purpose, or to use available materials, as I do if someone follows my drawings exactly.
> 
> ...



Hi Harold,
Thanks for the support and kind advice. You are my revered "Sensei" and Gus a very non-conforming(or non-compliant) disciple. For this Gus would get evicted out of ShaoLin Martial Art Temple,China. Every time I need some help,I would run to your books for reference. I had to make do with surplus material. Plan to make the DH with Dividing Plates.

P.S. Took up ShaoLin Martial Ar tfor 3 1/2 years and learnt nothing but became physically and mentally fit to scrape thru the local part-time,night HND Engineering Diploma Course in the 1960s.
Just came back from Osaka,Japan and bought spent too much at the TokyuHands Hobby Supermarket where they sell every thing for every hobbies.


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## Stub Mandrel (Jul 16, 2013)

Harold Hall - the only man in the world who lets his wife's friend use his dividing head to make cakes! ;-)

Neil


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## gus (Jul 17, 2013)

Hi Gurus,

Dividing Head totally completed with dividing plate/gears good for 20--------60T.
Bought the gears from TokyuHands,Osaka,Japan and they cost an arm and a leg.Number of teeth stamped on gear.
In the long run, will save money cutting DIY gears. Making the DIY Dividing Plates for a bigger
range of gear tooth will challenging. 
Need some tips how to make own conventional Dividing Plates. Will be cutting a gear train to run Sakai Spindle speed at 50----150 rpm to cut threads.
Also need some advice how to I.D. Module no.


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## Philjoe5 (Jul 17, 2013)

Gus,
A calculation for module number is:

(Number of teeth + 2) divided by the outside diameter in millimeters

Your dividing head looks good.

Cheers,
Phil


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## workshopman (Jul 18, 2013)

I think Neil we should explain your comments about my wife's friend.

For an explanation, see here http://www.homews.co.uk/page504.html

Harold Hall


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## gus (Jul 18, 2013)

Stub Mandrel said:


> HI Gus,
> 
> I made my worm & wheel in two stages. First cut two matching worm gears one to use and the other one couple of thou oversize and in silver steel (drill rod). Cut some teeth in the silver steel one and harden & temper it to make a cutter.
> 
> ...



Hi Neil,
Sorry for this late reply. The gear box is fantastic. 
Neil has raised the bar and we will a tough time to catch up.
I am all set to cut 20   30  40  50  60t gears with my not so cheap dividing gears/plate. Planning to cut worm and wheel soon as the slow speed gear train arrive from Korea. Meanwhile I may figure out making my own to jump start. The HMEM is a great and friendly forum with helpful members.
"70" young man recovering from the "6 day shop till we drop" holiday in Osaka. Now finishing up the petrol fuel tank for ''Webbie".


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## gus (Jul 18, 2013)

workshopman said:


> I think Neil we should explain your comments about my wife's friend.
> 
> For an explanation, see here http://www.homews.co.uk/page504.html
> 
> Harold Hall




Hi Harold,

So many hobbies,he must have a clock with 48 hours and that is not fair.Ha ha. Where can I buy a clock with 96 hours per day. For now Gus has eight past times-----boating,fishing,rod building,machining,travel,food,net surfing,aeromodelling. etc. and not enough time.:wall::wall: Ha Ha. Keeps me very busy. Gus not a rich man but he has just enough $$$ for his too many hobbies. Machine shop keeps me busy.


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## radial1951 (Jul 25, 2013)

gus said:


> Gus not a rich man but he has just enough $$$ for his too many hobbies. Machine shop keeps me busy.



GUS! Oh no, someone changed your avatar! Hang on, how do we know it's really you? Could be a spy!

Is that one of those pump-up plastic fish? Ha, you've been caught cheatin' again...

Yeah I know, we should see the one that got away...

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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## Alchymist (Jul 25, 2013)

gus said:


> Hi Harold,
> 
> So many hobbies,he must have a clock with 48 hours and that is not fair.Ha ha. Where can I buy a clock with 96 hours per day. For now Gus has eight past times-----boating,fishing,rod building,machining,travel,food,net surfing,aeromodelling. etc. and not enough time.:wall::wall: Ha Ha. Keeps me very busy. Gus not a rich man but he has just enough $$$ for his too many hobbies. Machine shop keeps me busy.



Too much hobby, not enough time or $$$ here..... but then there never is. :toilet:


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## gus (Jul 25, 2013)

radial1951 said:


> GUS! Oh no, someone changed your avatar! Hang on, how do we know it's really you? Could be a spy!
> 
> Is that one of those pump-up plastic fish? Ha, you've been caught cheatin' again...
> 
> ...



Hi Ross,

Relax. I did it. Landed this 4 kg Sea Bass aka Barramundi last month.Gave me a very good fight on 15 lb line. Three fishos could not finish eating the tail portion. The other two mates were jealous,envious,boiling mad,murderous and threatening to throw Gus into the sea.:wall::wall::wall: Bought them dinner at the Marina to reconcile.:hDe::hDe::hDe: Took them back to same spot--------no Barras!!

I goofed again. OK If the dry spell continues over this week end,will be great fishing at my secret spots which made into F.A.D.s aka fish attracting devices. The other boats don't get to see my catch as I would come back early and catch inside Eskies.


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## rodw (Jul 26, 2013)

Gus in our country when we catch fish inside Eskies, we catch brown trout.... Um beer bottles. Is that what you mean? 

I have never been much of a fisherman growing up in the near desert but I don't mind fishing for brown trout


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## gus (Jul 26, 2013)

rodw said:


> Gus in our country when we catch fish inside Eskies, we catch brown trout.... Um beer bottles. Is that what you mean?
> 
> I have never been much of a fisherman growing up in the near desert but I don't mind fishing for brown trout



Hi Rod,

Where about are you located?

Next trip to visit my siblings,could drop by to see Rod and his by now famous
machine shop,fish for beer and trout. Have never done trout fishing.

The bandsaw was a real asset. The Webbie wood bases were done by the Makita BandSaw with little left to trim off as Gus is getting pretty good at sawing on the line.

See you.

See you.


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