# Bazmak-Making the acute tool sharpening system



## bazmak

Just started my next project.I like the look of the acute system and with
information gleaned from Utube etc have sufficient info to make my version
However to play fair with Eccentric Engineering I have bought a set of drgs
for $35.Have made a start with the table as drgs have not yet arrived
Table calls for 150mm sq x 4mm m/s so I used 165mm sq x 5 thk S/S
4 brkts were fabbed from 25x3 angle and 3mm plt,Spacers 25dia alum
M6 allthread S/S screws and although I have ordered a few knobs and clamps
from China I also made 2 ms lever arm screws.Table works well.Now waiting for the drgs before deciding how far to go with the pantograph arm etc and what
changes if any to make.As usual flying by the seat of my 

pants


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## BaronJ

Hi Bazmak,

I wonder if you have seen this

Link <synthetica.eng.uci.edu/mechanicaldesign101/Kempe-Straight-Line.pdf>

I found it very informative !


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## bazmak

I am a total novice but I need to look at buying a suitable grinding wheel
On ebay I have seen a 150dia x 25mm wide diamond lapidary wheel
Would this be suitable for light dressing of hss and carbide end mills etc
What grit would be suitable ?.I need to to remove a wheel and guard from my bench grinder and check what size I can physically fit.Any advise would be appreciated Regards barry


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## bazmak

Weekend is here so hopefully the drgs will arrive tomorrow.Meanwhile I have ordered a 150d x 25w lapidary wheel 240g from china and will also order a 150dia cup wheel say 180g and try to setup both sides of the grinder
I want to set up to simply sharpen drills single facet small sizes I have an er 32 collet set which I can try but I think will be too large so I have in mind to buy
an er16/20 collet set and make a square holder.I think this is a useful thread
for both old (very skilled engs) and young newbies.I think I am in the middle somewhere.Most of us are still learning so please input anything of interest
I liked your post and photo showing the cup wheel setup BARON anymore?


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## joco-nz

Very interested in this bazmak.   I have a similar ryobi grinder but with the belt sander on the right hand side.

I have been toying with how to do do a better rest for the wheel side, even looking seriously at the setup described by Harold Hall in "Milling - A complete course" from the Workshop Practice Series #35.

What you are creating looks rather interesting and perhaps a little less involved than Harold's design.


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## BaronJ

Hi Baz,

I did a full build thread on another forum, unfortunately some of the pictures have gone AWAL.  The cup wheel is a CBN, 100 mm one with a 20 mm bore and a 5 mm wide face 3 mm thick.  It cost me about £10 from China.  See  <www.banggood.com>  I'll see if I can find the PN later.  Here it is.

*1 x 100mm Diamond Grinding Wheel Cup 180 Grit Cutter Grinder for Carbide Metal (966954) £9.06

Notice that it describes it as "Diamond"  But it isn't.  A Diamond one would be much more.

I used a motor from an old tumble dryer salvaged from the local scrapyard.  From memory the dryer wasn't very old.  I found out much later why I think that it had been scrapped.  The drive shaft end had been sheared off.


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## bazmak

Drawings not yet arrived .Dont know exactly where I'm going yet its all 
in my head.I plan to make the pantograph arm and guide rail so will look at
a tool holder to fit the rail.Will try and fit my er32 collet block even though I feel it may be too large.The block is 40mm sq and the nut 50mm dia so I machined a piece of angle to a nice sliding fit for the block and raised 5mm to clear the nut.I then made a shaped end plate drilled and tapped  ME
5.5mm x 40 tpi.Made and fitted a brass adjusting screw but this was too slack so added a m3 grub screw with a nylon plug to tension the screw Looks and works well.Next step is to make a swivel plate to fit the intended guide rail
and mount the holder.Will have to wait and see its all in my

 head


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## goldstar31

My copy of the drawings makes no provision for a collet chuck. The shown holder is from a block of 25mm MS Square. 

So my thoughts( it's -1C here and freezing fog!), that I use either a Myford collet set or something with a 'Myford' set up.

Looking at 'Baron's' so called diamond disk, I have something similar but finer to hone tools after grinding. It came from Chronos  and lives on the fabricated Stent.

I've been Grandchildren-y German Markets and Chinese lantern displays in Leeds but the holders for tools is either 25mm square or 25mm round. 

So Barry might I mention this to remind myself as well to think about necessary alterations. I have a LOT of half inch lathe tooling and cutters of 1/2" mainly.

Hope that your drawings and my post to you finally arrive

Norman


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## bazmak

Hi Norman,have you watched the various videos on the acute system on Utube
It shows an er16 collet holder for small dias,im hoping the er32 works for
some items if not I might buy a smaller collet set.The er16 is only $30
and its simple to make a dedicated square block.Nut is only $4.Next job is to make the guide rail


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## goldstar31

Hi Barry

When and if Santa Claus finally calls at your door, you should have the drawings for the Brooks tool and cutter grinder which John Moran has mentioned. Whilst the rest of the drawings are of interest etc, the tool holder is a direct crib of the Quorn holder .

Believe me, I have one on my Quorn but obviously the Quorn runs on round bar whereas you will see the Brooks has a flat base. The rest is direct Chaddock.--as you will see- fingers crossed!

Sadly, I am still 'tied up' with a house sale and really little time to enjoy the simple pleasures of U tubes and whatever.

Meantime, it's bl**** cold at -1C and the dogs are frozen to the lamp posts. Never eat yellow snow

Norm


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## BaronJ

Nice pictures Baz,  Put a spring over the screw to give it some tension.  Or try a nylon screw.
With care your ER32 Collet chuck should be OK.  I had to cut the collet holder down and drill it out to take 10 mm diameter work.
Though I'm considering a sleeve to take 12 and 13 mm work.


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## bazmak

To tension the screw I fitted a 3mm grubscrew and dropped a small piece of nylon down before fitting the grubscrew.Its fairly standard practice for me and works well.Its the male equivalent of a nyloc nut


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## BaronJ

I'll have to try that trick, its something that I hadn't heard of before now.


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## bazmak

I have described it many times before.I have used it to tension dial 
rings on lathes and mills etc to replace the little springs that get lost
Using a knurled nut it can be used as a lock/release and easily adjusted
regards barry


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## bazmak

A couple of hours and I have made the adjustable fence/guide
Then the drgs arrived,a nice ring binder with easy to read details and dims etc
Nothing untoward with what I have already made.Will proceed with my
ideas to try and fit the er32 collet block and slide assy.At a later stage I will
probably make the pantograph arm etc all as per drg.Just to see how it all works.My assembly can be easily replaced with the acute system and both used with the table.One item with the table shows heavy clamping washers fitted with O rings,may give it a try to see the difference between the clamping effect with the heavy brass washers I have fitted


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## goldstar31

I'm delighted to know that the drawings have finally arrived and note the progress already.

For my version of events, I am stuck with supply problems amongst other problems. It looks like being unable to bend the brackets for the stand as my sheet steel supply is 4mm and I might have to weld. 

As Baz reports, it is straightforward construction.

For my side of things, despite the tremendous help from Baron, my posting of photos is still impossible.

Ah!!!!!!!! nut thanks to both 

Norman


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## bazmak

More successful progress .Made 2 swivel discs 60d x 9 thk each morticed
The lower one to fit the adjustable guide and the top one to accept the 
tool block holder.Made and fitted a tenon to the tool holder with a pin 
to locate in a slot in the upper disc.This gives a nom 8mm movement
for clearing the tool from the grinding wheel when rotating the collet block
Things seem to be working out now I need a grinding wheel to see what I can do .TBC   Regards barry


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## bazmak

While waiting for lots of items from china I decided to set up as best I 
could in order to sort out any problems.Lots of snagging I think
I have a 75mm diamond cup wheel for which I made adaptors and fitted to the grinder.With the table and grinder setout on a timber bourd I played with heights and locations before trying my first test.An old 10mm dia drill with
badley worn /ground end.Totally useless. Achieved a semblance of setup
and after gashing the secondary angle by hand on my old grinder I proceeded
to sharpen .All worked well the drill point looks good and drills well.All angles were guestimated.Lots of niggles and minor design changes will be made when all
my parts arrive from china.Next step is to start grinding lots of small drills ,single facet with the setup as is.Will try and get better photos,will try an LED light for the closeups


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## goldstar31

Now that Santa Klaus has arrived, you have access to the classic Quorn articles where Professor Chaddock does the 4 and 6 facet grinding. Unquestionably, he is an interesting read. There's a bit about grinding using ordinary wheels. 

As far as the Acute system, I am still wondering how 'the little rounding ' of the end of a lathe tool can be done. For my part- open to criticism- is to use one of my little fine diamond wheels to do this( like your present set up with a 3" wheel)

As I write, I'm open to criticism or correction. 

Regards

Norman


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## Niels Abildgaard

bazmak said:


> I have a 75mm diamond cup wheel for which I made adaptors and fitted to the grinder.With the table and grinder setout on a timber bourd I played with heights and locations before trying my first test.An old 10mm dia drill with
> badley worn /ground end.Totally useless.



Some shops  consider diamond wheel for HSS bad taste.


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## goldstar31

Niels Abildgaard said:


> Some shops consider diamond wheel for HSS bad taste.


 
Can't we give this 'affinity of carbon thing to iron' a rest? My knowledge of such matters has been trundled out since Sparey wrote about  a pinch of diamond dust in the Amateurs Lathe way back - in the 1940's.

Frankly, it is something for those who have little to do but be contentious.
At the worst, a diamond disk whether it wears out  or not is a matter of very small change. I spent more than a disk on a curry last night- and we all know how a curry behaves next morning:hDe:

Quite bluntly, if this is all that one's mind should be focussed, people should be pitied or laughed at.

In practical terms in what is NOT a factory but a HOME workshop, it will be far cheaper than going out and buying a series of abrasive wheels as an alternative. 

Lets get on with the real practicalities- and avoid the ethereal views of a minority

And a Merry Christmas to All our readers

Norm


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## bazmak

Don't know what you mean by bad taste Niels,if you mean its not recognised engineering then I say do what suits and so far its far superior to a stone wheel
both on HSS and Carbide.Less wear and trueing of the wheel and far more accurate.I wont tell anyone if you dont


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## Niels Abildgaard

Hello Bazmak

Some of my friends make a living from sharpening and change stone/wheel for carbide or HSS.I have a diamond wheel on a grinder used for modifying square carbide and nothing else and then a silizium carbide stone on another grinder that sharpens both HSS and carbide.Electric motors/grinders are cheaper than good grinding wheels.


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## Blogwitch

Baz,

When you do a lot of HSS sharpening and reshaping on a diamond wheel, the wheel will tend to clog. I used to do a lot of HSS reshaping at work, a lot more use than you will be doing, and the diamond surface impregnated wheels would only last about a month or so before being thrown away because of clogged areas on the wheels.

But for general purpose home use where it is only occasionally used, then I don't think you will come across any major problems, except for the bonding on the wheel wearing to a stage where you have to trim it true again. That should be one of your major concerns

That is why I suggested a throw away diamond lapping plate clamped to the side of a normal 6" wheel. One of those should last at least a year for both types of material before being thrown, and no truing up needed. What you are spending on your one wheel would most probably buy enough lapping plates to last for a few years.

But anyway, you have gone for your own system so for the types of wheels you are using, for HSS, you should be using a CBN grinding wheel and for carbide, a diamond wheel, so maybe buy one of each and swap over when the material for sharpening changes.

John


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## Foozer

bazmak said:


> Made 2 swivel discs 60d x 9 thk each mortised The lower one to fit the adjustable guide and the top one to accept the tool block holder.



Now that's perty - Like that mortise bit, only have to hold it down, rather than *cough* hold it down 'And' against the fence like the contraption I made . . .


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## bazmak

Niels and blogwitch,you are both correct and I bow to your superior wisdom/experience,However I am just playing about my only aim
is sharpen/resurrect a few old drills and hopefully put an edge to a few
endmills.As with the gearcutting its just a learning curve,trial and error
One thought to combine the 2 would be to cut a small rack and pinion
and fit to maybe a small mill table for the X axis feed ?


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## bazmak

Did anybody spot the error with my last post.I was using the wrong side of
the wheel and grinding the drills etc on the upstroke.However I am still playing
about and finding problems in order to improve with design changes
I had 5 thou play on the toolholder tenon so made a new one in brass
slightly larger section and a much better fit.I made a new Guide fence
more robust and machined as dovetail to make it captive on the fence
Also graduated the lower disc etc .Lots more to do as problems surface
but so far have sharpended a no of drills and a couple of end mills 2 and 4
flutes . Coming good


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## goldstar31

Barry, grinding on the 'upstroke' creates an 'arris' or 'wire' which is the desiderata in the world of woodworkers and in my humble opinion no bad thing. I can recall my late father removing the arris from his hollow ground cut throat razors after stropping on a leather belt which had been impregnated with corroded lead by the palm of his hand. However-- however, a play in a tool and cutter grinder _might_ make the cutting edge rounded by the upstroke method. This is when the old microscope which ALL good machinists has as part and parcel their being. My 7 year old grandson is getting his  first for Christmas!

A good old shufti-scope can be a boon. Me, I have a pair of surgeon's binoculars! So carry on- there is a precedent to confound the old wife's tales.
Cheers

Norm


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## BaronJ

Hi Baz,

Nice work !.  I'm keeping out of the diamond V HSS argument 

I've used carbide router bits for all sorts of applications and in general they work very well particularly on brasses and bronze.

As far as grinding the drill from the wrong side of the wheel, you will get a harrage which ever way you do it.  I have a strip of an old leather belt that I use to remove it, indeed I've been known to strop chisels in the palm of my hand, which is just me being too lazy to find the bit of leather that is hiding somewhere on the bench.


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## goldstar31

BaronJ said:


> Hi Baz,
> 
> Nice work !. I'm keeping out of the diamond V HSS argument
> 
> .


 
I'm even in some doubt whether anyone reads the post anyway.


'A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still'

As one of the three Goldstars left from my days with the Royal Flying Corps-

Nil illigitimi Carborundum , Per Ardua Asbestos and sic blether

Norm

 Not a bony-----------------Just to keep in context bought two lots of 'fawkandles' for my future Eccentrics


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## bazmak

The small arris may be considered beneficial to some woodworking tools
ie a scraper,but the main problem in grinding on the upstroke is that the grinding tries to lift the tool.The small amount of play in the slides is 
the bigger problem.I am now happy with the toolholder mortise/tenon
but the dovetail slide has about 2 thou.Will try to fit grubscrews and nylon plugs to tension the slide


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## goldstar31

I can understand the problem. Why not use one of these epoxy resins like Devcon or even a metal based car body filler to take up the slack.

My saddle wear  on my Myford is actually Turcite-d. It was applied  professionally when the bed was slideways ground.

It's another idea

Cheers

Norman


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## bazmak

Lots of bits and bobs ordered from china.First to arrive was a 6"dia x 1" wide
diamond wheel.It ran out of true and the various plastic adaptors were a joke
so I mad an alum adaptor now runs true but out of balance,due I think
to 
not having similar weight wheels on each end of the grinder.Still playing
Also improved the dovetail slide and the table locking h

andles


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## goldstar31

Morning Baz! I'm impressed. My progress report mentions that I  have a 1" wide CBN wheel which is drilled to presumably balance things.
I bought enough alloy levers for the job but apart from some rough cutting out of sheet metal, that is it. Other family and Christmas commitments looming, are two reasons.

I noticed 'en passant' that someone was discussing a gadget to balance wheels. Maybe someone can trace it. I'm afraid that I have too many other things 'that MUST be done.

Meantime, I'm enjoying your reports

Norm


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## bazmak

Lots of playing about to do but if anyone has any advise on balancing 
then please post


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## BaronJ

Hello Baz,

One way of getting an idea of where and how much a wheel is out of balance is to sit it on a pin point at its very centre and mark with a felt tip the heavy point.  Then use balls of clay or plasticine to balance it. Weigh the clay and drill a hole of equivelent weight in one of the clamp washers. Place the clamp washer with the hole nearest the heavy spot.  With a bit of fiddling you should be able to get quite close to balance.

If you machine a disc with a raised plug to fit the wheel with a small dimple in the centre on the other side so that you can sit it all on a point.  I've used a scriber clamped in the vice to do this in the past.

If you think that the other end of the grinder is causing trouble, then take the wheels off and run the motor without any.  I would be more inclined to suggest that it may be the actual rotor in the motor that could be the cause, or possibly a bad bearing.

I have a three phase motor that vibrates far more than it should due to a bit of cooling blade that has broken off the rotor casting at one end.  This really needs to be dynamically re-balanced, but I haven't got the kit to do it.


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## bazmak

Thank you for your thoughts Baron.The grinder itself runs true even 
with the small cup wheel on one end.Replacing the original wheel on the opposite side may help,but I summize I will have to balance the wheel
Looked at Utube with the wheel rolling on the a pair of knife edges but 
my thoughts are it may be easier in the lathe between centres.Also instead of drilling a no of holes to lighten the heavy side it will probably be better/more aspthetic to fix small weights to the light side.TBC


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## bazmak

more progress.The new wheel was way out of balance.I had planned to set
up between centres in the lathe,but the grinder itself was very free wheeling
and after a couple of test spins it was obvious where the heavy spot was
Drilled and tapped M4 and fitted a screw and a couple of nuts.Not enough
so made a couple of brass washers.Much improved but now too much
All good now I know the min/max so will play about some more
The eccentric system has a 25x3 flat guide rail slotted with a top hat section for a sliding stop.Now I have made the rail as a dovetail it was easy to make
a stop without slotting the rail.Rome wasn't built in a day and a house is built
brick by brick.Getting there TBC


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## BaronJ

Gd Morning Baz,

Looking good.
I like the way you have done that stop.

Fine on the way that you have done the balance.  As long as it runs smoothly without vibration that's good.


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## Foozer

Don't know Dad - Just my two cents here - -Thinking drilling some lightening holes in the wheel clamp washers (purposely out of balance) then static balance - - I just use a little dab of non-harding gasket sealant to hold to sorta hold the pieces together on a shaft - adjust the clamp(s) till the wheel stops stopping at the same spot . . . Witness mark and back to the grinder it goes - Seems to work...

Drilling a hole in the wheel is akin to drilling a hole in a bell, just doesn't have the same ring tone to it . .


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## bazmak

Drilling holes in a stone wheel is forboden so like your idea,however
my diamond wheel is mounted on a plastic/aluminium wheel so drilling
the wheel itself makes sense


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## Foozer

Found my *cough* Hi-Tek balance device - Long as the wheel was off- had to add a little weight . .


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## stragenmitsuko

Niels Abildgaard said:


> Some shops  consider diamond wheel for HSS bad taste.



I learned toolgrinding from a guy who spent his entire carreer grinding tools in a woodworking factory . You know , the kind of guy with a grey dust coat , a butt of cigarette in his mouth , and a cup of coffee on the corner of the bench . 

He thought me how to sharpen carbide sawblades , drill bits , endmills , wood cutters , knives .... And it all seemed so friggin easy when he demonstrated it 

Back on topic : 
This man told me never to use diamond wheels for  carbon steel or hss . 
Supposedly the carbon in the steel would do something to the diamond , wich is also carbon , and destroy it in no time . 
I've always listened to his advice and use the diamond wheels exclusivly for carbide . 

btw he also said never to breathe the carbide/diamond grinding dust . 
 Would be very dangerous . Don't know if it's true or not , but once again I carefully listened to his advice . Extraction  unit ON  , alway's ! 

Pat


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## bazmak

All very sound advice especially to someone who is grinding 8 hrs a day
5 days week for many years.However the advise can be tempered down
for the amount of grinding some of us do.So I will keep playing about
with the small amount I do.At the age of 70 I am not too worried  about
developing diamondtosis.One point I would like to hear comments on
is the comment about the carbon in HSS destroying the diamond carbon
Anyone with technical knowledge please comment.If it is correct then what 
sort of time scale ??.If its hrs then I am stuffed,if its years then not to worry


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## goldstar31

Baz,
I'm not going into a long discourse of all our yesterdays.

Yesterday, I was watching 'How it's made' a Canadian program and watched a firm making end mills using diamond cutters and cooled with 'liquid'. I assume something water based. The machines were making HSS tools and carbides

Again, going back, I recall using a diamond tool grinder lubricated with oil. I was a 'manure' student at the local college.

Regards

Norm


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## bazmak

Hi Norman,dont think I will worry too much.Just spent a few hrs in the shed
but its warming up for xmas,hi 90s last few days.Couple more parcels from china.I now have 75,100 and 125mm dia diamond cup wheels and the 150x25
std wheel so made alum adaptors for all 3 and balanced the 150dia to a reasonable std.The grinder has a LH thread and RH on the other side which makes it difficult to tighten up the wheels,so first job was to set up in the mill
and machine a couple of flats each side for a spanner.Works a treat
After playing about with locations and heights etc on a board I decided to 
mount the main wheel on the RH side and the 125 cup wheel to the LH
I made and fitted a baseplt for mounting the table on and a grinder mounting table from scrap 70mm rhs and 25x3 angle.Starting to look good but things will slow over Xmas,and a merry one to you all


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## goldstar31

Hi Baz

My Christmas social events calendar( ?) has ground activities in the shed to a frightening halt. 
Last year, it went into orbit with an invite to Hong Kong and onto Fiji.
Who knows what Monday will bring from my Chinese connections this time. Oz is only 17 hours away now. 

Meantime, I'm enjoying your posts. So I wish you and the rest of the fora, my sincerest good wishes for the Christ's Mass and for a constructive New Year

Norm


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## tomrux

Hey Baz
Any chance you can give me a link for where you have got the diamond wheels from. I have a universal cutter grinder. I can get limited wheels from Hare and Forbes but a better assortment and perhaps better prices might be handy.
TIA

Cheers
Tom R


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## bazmak

Hi Tom,just search diamond cup wheel for grinding.They are very cheap on Ebay from china ave $15 each with free postage.I had to pay $80 for
the 6"x1" wheel.Only took 7 days


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## stragenmitsuko

Baz could you upload some pictures of the diamond wheels ? 

Pat


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## bazmak

Yes can do ,will be when next in the shed.Have guests for Xmas so may be in a few days


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## bazmak

Well Xmas and new year over,family gone home and after a few days of 40o c
today I managed a couple of hours in the shed.I have ordered lots of smaller
cheaper items from China which have started to arrive.
The ER32 collets are ok for the larger drills and end mills but a bit larger for the smaller stuff.I purchased a 12 piece set of ER16 collets and a couple of nuts for $30 and have on order a ER16 collet chuck and nut with 16dia x 100mm lg spindle for $15.This can be used in the mill gripped in the 
R8 x 16mm collet which will give me more reach/clearance for small mills/drills
I also made a 40mm sq /Er16 collet block to use in the acute system
I made it 40mm sq for now to fit the existing housing.Later if need be I machine it down to suit to the pantograph


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## bazmak

Photos for Pat of the diamond cup wheels ave $15 each and adequate for the job.Im still playing with the the overall setup regards heights and locations of the unit and table prior to making a dedicated stand.At the moment I am concentrating
on drill sharpening and I am not happy with the current setup
The 40mm collet blocks raises the drill too high above the table and although the current setup may work well for end mills its too involved for simple drill sharpening.Will go back to the basic table and redesign a simple fixture for drills.The 40mm sq collet block is too large for the smaller drills so will reduce size with a more simple fixture at nom 30o (near enough to give me 118/120o
angle


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## tomrux

Mate how did you take a pic tomorrow?

reckon you could give me a pic of tomorrows lotto numbers?

Tom R


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## bazmak

Never noticed that,depends on which side of the international date line you live
I will tell you the nos ,can you buy the tickets


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## goldstar31

bazmak said:


> Never noticed that,depends on which side of the international date line you live


 


 I've just sold a date palm.   My late wife planted it in the septic tank. :fan: It seemed quite happy. We were getting our own back

:toilet:

life's a lottery, I suppose

N


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## goldstar31

On a more serious note, I'm wondering about this ER16 thing and doing small drills. To date( not that again), I never have been able to recover small drills. I'm a bit confused( normal for me) about the grit size. 

I've been using the CBN wheel - with 160 grit and no way am I getting satisfactory results  below- say 6mm.

Comments will be appreciated

Norm


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## bazmak

I would use a much finer grit as very little matl needs to be removed
I also plan to use a single facet grind,havent decided on the angle yet
Still to played about with.If my memory serves me when I used to hand grind
twist drills years ago and I was quite good anything above 5mm was lightly ground by eye and then the back relieved (2nd Facet) As the drills got smaller
then a single facet between say 5 and 15 o was ground and below 2mm it
 was more luck than good judgement.I have lots of playing to do just for fun
will keep you informed.Meanwhile I have just purchaced a few quality drills
from 3 to 8mm as  test pieces


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## Blogwitch

Norman,

As Baz has stated, if you are just resharpening, then grit sizes need to be rather small to obtain decent results.

I have been using diamond wheels for a few years, and my roughest is 1200 grit, in both wheels and laps.

More depends on the direction of cut (grind), it is best if the grind is at right angles to the cutting face, especially if grinding or lapping tungsten, go across the cutting face and the edge is very liable to chip away in quick order.

John


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## BaronJ

Hi Baz,

In order to get the drill cutting edge and any facets exactly in the right place the tip of the drill should fall on the centre line of the wheel face and the point at which the drill is pivoted to create the primary and secondary facets.

The pictures might help explaining what I'm getting at.  However if you are only bothering doing a conical grind then treat this as for information only.







I've just noticed that the word "Table" in the picture should say "Drill".   These are from my notes when making John Moran's 4 - 6 Facet Drill Sharpener.


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## goldstar31

I am probably wandering but actually there seems to be no difference between a drill and an end mill. All that varies is the angle of the pointy end. In an end mill it is probably minus 1degree whilst in a drill it can be 118 degree positive.

However, he says 'waving his wooden leg aloft' the angles remain at  say 5 degrees and 15-20 degrees and - and the lips are -as Baron says' on' or as I have it 'just below centre line' 

A lathe tool normally cuts with the cutting part - as I've said. 

There isn't a fat lot between a end mill, slot drill or a twist drill - or a boring bar. 

I proved this a long time ago by replacing a conventional boring bar bit with a slot drill and using a boring bar bit as a lathe tool.

Yes?????

Norm


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## BaronJ

Hi Norman,

I agree ! Essentially there is little difference. End mills and slot drills, as far as the tip is concerned are as you say -1 or 2 degrees with 10 to 15 degrees back rake, and depending upon whether they are centre cutting or not, one edge is offset.  The flutes however are a different issue because the tool has to be not only rotated along its axis but has to be kept accurately positioned along the rotational axis of a cylindrical grinding wheel in order to sharpen them.

The rake behind the flute cutting edge is not a flat surface but is slighly hollow, in addition sharpening the flutes reduces the diameter a little, so you can no longer rely on the cutter width.


----------



## goldstar31

BaronJ said:


> Hi Norman,
> 
> 
> The rake behind the flute cutting edge is not a flat surface but is slighly hollow, in addition sharpening the flutes reduces the diameter a little, so you can no longer rely on the cutter width.


 
As with a conventional tap or reamer?

Having 'pronounced', I wonder whether this Acute thing will do reamers and such. It's hard enough without  an air spindle on such things as Quorns, Stents and Clarksons. 

Yes?

Norm


----------



## bazmak

In answer to your question Norman I have found reamers very easy to do
The only part to grind is the chamfered end,its very easy to do
and makes a big difference.As for grinding the flutes on end mills 
then for most people its a no no without the dedicated 
high quality grinder.Reamers again can be done if the od  is 
reduced to an accurate known dia.But the flutes don't do any cutting only polishing/honing ,its the front chamfered corner that does all the cutting
I have recently bought some cheap and nasty reamers from china
but they do work well and are ground with a long lead in which looks
odd but does work at centralizing the reamer.No good for blind holes
But when I remember the many tens of thousands of different tap,drills,reamers,plug gauges etc that my company stocked then its not possible for us home engineers to have 5% of that


----------



## bazmak

A little progress.Started making a dedicated fixture for twist drills
I like the dovetail slide rail so working from that I made a dovetail
slide block dedicated at 118o.I machine the er16 collet block down from 40mm sq to 30mm sq and milled a slot to accept it.Now to tidy a few loose ends
and work out an adjustable stop etc.It has become more stable now the tool height has been reduced


----------



## stragenmitsuko

Thx for the pictures , the wheels seem to be good quality . 
I'll have a look on ebay . 
For an average of 15$ there's little risk involved . 

I have a clarkson t&c grinder , a very rare MKIII , and I'm hoping to build a fixture to sharpen carbide tipped saws . So I'm gonna need a cup wheel , and a "flat washer" shaped one . 
Don't know the exact shape in english . Dish maybe ?  

Pat


----------



## bazmak

https://youtu.be/5U9UBxjLpMo
The collet and block works well,HOWEVER after all the years when items can be LH or RH how
many times have we made them the wrong way. 50/50 I agree but its like the jam side of your
toast falling face down.I thought about lh and rh before starting the holder,decided it didn't apply
And carried on.Wrong.Thought I could solve it by changing the wheels around on the grinder and 
turning the grinder around.OK till I started to sharpen a drill and realised the table would have to be 
tilted up and you cant see the cutting edge.So when the hot weather has eased off and I get my
head into gear I will make another with a few changes to improve the existing.The brass stop is fitted at the front
but I would prefer it at the rear etc etc


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Baz,

Just tilt the table down.  You are going to clamp the tool holder and arrange for it to be moved in very small increments.  So does it matter if you cant see the cutting edge.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86494&stc=1&d=1484222254

As you can see from the picture, this is how I did mine. of course being able to lift the toolholder off the table helps if you really need to look at the drill tip.


----------



## goldstar31

I've been prattling on  'ad nauseum' or since Pontius was a pilot about a black felt tipped marker and a dental mirror.

From time to time, I also prattle on about microscopes. There should be a queue at Specsavers but probably people can't find the way to a branch.


----------



## bazmak

Hi Baron,i assume from your photo that the whole table slides  side to side
on the grooved nylon wheels.I have also ordered an er 16 collet chuck
on a 16mm dia spindle which could slide in a housing rather than a collet block
and take me in the same direction as you.With regards to my problem I 
have tried grinding with the table tilted up and I am not happy with it
I will make a new slide and beef it up slightly so I can fit a feed screw
alongside with the stop at the front and the knurled feedscrew to the rear
I am only playing about and that's half the fun for me.But looking at your photo
another avenue will be a sq block reamed 16dia and my new clollet chuck fitted
the fine adjustment can then be fitted to the 16 dia spindle.I would have
to fit a keyway to spindle to give a sliding fit and stop it revolving


----------



## goldstar31

Baz

You may be interested in something called the Kennet. No longer available as part finished castings from Ivan Law but a very detailed description is in Lathes.co.uk.

It may is quite a straightforward construction and slides on cast iron- the castings. It may suggest alternatives.

I have one, incidentally.

Norm


----------



## bazmak

Thanks Norm.We oldies have to keep a finger on the pulse.Ours that is
I checked thru the info you sent me but cant find anything.It will take me 2 lifetimes to go thru it all.Then looked at the link you sent me.Brilliant
Great info on the Kennet with lovely photos.Maybe get some ideas
The site looks great so I have made a shortcut to explore on rainy days
Today is one by the way.2 days of 40oc and today 40mm of rain
Great it means I can get in the shed


----------



## goldstar31

If you recall the books by Arnold Throp of Dore Engineering, you know the Dore Westbury mill too, he had a Quorn and also a Kennet.
Yonks back, I nattered with him at a show as he had both on a stand.

He found the old Kennet a great deal quicker for routine work.

Clears throat, I also have Quorn and clears throat another bit, I also have a Stent. The Stent wasn't made by me, it was fabricated from mild steel sections.

Anyway, I'm delighted to read of your progress. Keep it up, please

Norm

Weather???? It is 0C and the earlier gale has taken out my fencing -around the rest home for old wearies.

Again, there are spring tides and Newcastle Quayside has barricades to try to exclude the River Tyne.

I've been spreading Tiger Balm on my arthritic hands. Oh, and lots of alcohol if the ointment doesn't work.
Hiccups 
N


----------



## bazmak

Weather cooled down and rain most of the day so I spent a few hours
remaking the slide I finished yesterday.Feel much better for it








The new slide seems to work better,so on to the next stage


----------



## BaronJ

bazmak said:


> Hi Baron, I assume from your photo that the whole table slides side to side on the grooved nylon wheels.



Yes it does. The wheels are actually turned a couple of mm off centre, so that they can be adusted for clearance. However if I was doing it again I would make slipper blocks from brass or bronze, because the nylon is quite coarse and grips the table plate more than I care for.



> I have also ordered an er 16 collet chuck on a 16mm dia spindle which could slide in a housing rather than a collet block and take me in the same direction as you.



Be aware that you might have to open up the bore of the collet body in order to get a 10 mm drill down its full length.  The collet body on mine was very hard and I had to modify a masonary drill in order to open it up.



> With regards to my problem I have tried grinding with the table tilted up and I am not happy with it I will make a new slide and beef it up slightly so I can fit a feed screw alongside with the stop at the front and the knurled feedscrew to the rear.



I thought that from your video you had an adjustable stop at the front. So tilting the table down shouldn't be a problem for setting how much to take off the drill tip. f you want to examine the drill lips, just slide the tool block back off.  You would have to turn the tool block 180 degrees to do the other lip.



> I am only playing about and that's half the fun for me. But looking at your photo another avenue will be a sq block reamed 16dia and my new clollet chuck fitted the fine adjustment can then be fitted to the 16 dia spindle.I would have to fit a keyway to spindle to give a sliding fit and stop it revolving.



I pressed a 2mm dia steel pin into the back of my tool block and fitted a collar with a semicircular slot milled into it.  A thumbscrew locks it in place on the collet body.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86514&stc=1&d=1484309401

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86515&stc=1&d=1484309401

As you can see it is just a steel dowel pin.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86516&stc=1&d=1484309551

The slot was milled using a 2.5 mm carbide router bit, intended for routing PCB slots.


----------



## bazmak

Thanks for your input Baron,can you give me more details
on how the pin and semi circular slot work. Regards barry


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Barry,

The first picture shows the collar that controls how far the collet rotates.  The pin in the tool block protrudes about 3/8th on an inch (10 mm)  The slot in the collar is about 11 mm deep. As long as the collar can go flush with the rear of the tool block, it isn't at all critical.  The thumbscrew simply locks the collar onto the collet body. 

Though you won't notice it but the pin should be 180 degrees further round.  I hadn't noticed that when rotating the collet, the thumbscrew goes under the toolholder rather than over.  Minor detail since when the thumbscrew is tightened it doesn't foul the mounting plate.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86523&stc=1&d=1484389993http:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86524&stc=1&d=1484389993http:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86525&stc=1&d=1484389993

This last picture shows the assembly along with the adjusting screw, which is M3 X 0.5 complete with a spring to apply tension so it doesn't move with any vibration.

The thumbscrew in the toolholder body simply locks the collet body from moving whilst grinding the drill.  The whole lot sits on two 3 mm dowels pressed into the base and locate in the baseplate.  There are three holes in the baseplate allowing 118 and 125 degree sharpening angles, the front hole being used as the pivot point.

FWIW the piece of brass bar that the toolblock is sat on, is only superglued to it, very much an experiment to see if it would be secure.  Up to now it hasn't come loose.


----------



## bazmak

Started to make the pantograph arm.Basic engineering so wont go into detail
The only thing I did differently was,
The 4 flat links were MS with ms hex hd sets made to go thru nylon bushes
I made the links from brass,fitted a nut to some M4 hx sock cap screws
and then machined them into precision shouldered bolts.The cap hd is now 2mm thick and the arms pivot on the shoulder brass on steel no nylon bushes
For Normans info I only have a hacksaw so all the 40/50 dia discs were cut fro plate and turned down in the lathe.Next to make a couple of fileing buttons
and finish the arms to size


----------



## bazmak




----------



## goldstar31

bazmak said:


> For Normans info I only have a hacksaw so all the 40/50 dia discs were cut fro plate and turned down in the lathe.Next to make a couple of fileing buttons
> and finish the arms to size


 
'You are a better man than I am, Gunga Din' 

Seriously, I'm trying to recover from a spot of Montezuma's Revenge  but have almost finished installing my little lathe in the warm. 

What intrigues me is your reference to 'Buttons' and neither of us are writing about the  Cinderella pantomime, are we?

Carry on Baz!

Regards from 

a rather improved old man


----------



## bazmak

The biggest dia silver steel I have is 3/8" but I need 10/11mm dia
Intend to find a spare drill and make 2 buttons from the shank and then harden up.Done it before,works ok and 15mm or so off the drill wont 
spoil it.The only brass I could get was 1/2 x1/8" but it needs to be 10mm 
wide.May make it 
a touch wider say 11mm Nice little exercise,drgs are good.Will see how it all works.You were correct the 180g wheels are too coarse looks like a ploughed field under a loupe.Just arrived from china 3 x 6" diamond discs hope to fit on the end of the 6 x 1" diamond wheel.300,600 and 3000g for polishing the tools
will keep you posted. Regards barry


----------



## goldstar31

Hi Barry
Whilst trying to sort out a lot of things, along with the BSO thing for John, I came across an interesting old discussion in Home Shop Machinist about Sharpening Carbide  Scraper Blades . It was 2005 but it is still accessible on the 'net. I'm involved!

Again, in the same file, I came across comparative references to diamond pastes and grit sizes. One- there are lots- was called Sharpening made easy and gave usable lists from various firms etc. Not in my download to you in the past.

Sadly, I'm still in this dreadful  time warp of having to get my aged head around 'money' and death.
Cheers

N


----------



## Blogwitch

No need for any more research Norman, it has been totally solved.

John


----------



## bazmak

Just arrived from china 3 no 6" dia diamond discs.I made an alun adaptor and fitted the 240 g to the side of the 150 dia wheel.The plt was
 2mm big so ran my angle grinder over the corner.Looks promising so will do the other 2 as well 240,600 and 3000g


----------



## bazmak

Made 2 buttons from an old 1/2"drill and hardened.Finished the 4 brass arms to size and assembled.I try to avoid using hardened buttons as they wear
heavily on files,but decided to on this occation


----------



## bazmak

Short video of the pantograph arm assy  [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLj0COOXcEU[/ame]


----------



## Blogwitch

You are doing a great job on that Baz, proves that you don't need the complete kit from them.

Are those the diamond laps that I suggested to you some time ago?

I find they are really good and very cheap, throw away after they become worn or clogged, without water cleaning and cooling you should get at least a year, maybe two. Maybe you could just have a water cup and brush to paint the surface as you are using them.

John


----------



## goldstar31

I thought that Baz was writing about tool makers' buttons. 

Never mind- back to the old people's home

N


----------



## bazmak

Yes John they are the diamond discs you recommended Thanks they are a good buy and ideal for what I need
Although I am diversifying from this thread its all connected and others may find interesting.Having problems with balancing the 6"x1" diamond wheel
so checked the diamond face for concentric.The face was 4 thou out but the edge was 12 thou out.Decided to try and improve it before attempting to balance,lot of work as the pictures show,trying to hold 6' dia true to face and edge when my biggest chuck is only 5".And after all that I can honestly say
there was NO improvement,however I did find it easier to balance and is just 
about acceptable.Next is to finish the pantograph arm
Also I have been playing about with grinder and table orientations on 
a base board.My 3 main working positions are now finalized
1- Left hand side of grinder (face of cupwheel)
2-Right hand side of grinder(face of diamond disc)
3-Front right hand side (face of 6"x1" grinding wheel)
Rather than the grinder being fixed and the table able to move to 3 posns
I think it may better to fix the table position and rotate the grinder so
will look at making a steel frame hopefully to suit


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Barry,

Looking good.  I like the idea of using the diamond laps secured to the outside of the wheel like that.

I've also noted the way you have tried to balance the wheel.  Trueing it up the way you have should really have been done first.  I've attached a picture with some notes that I hope might help you understand what is going on.

Appologies if I'm preaching to the choir.  It is a fair few years since I did anything with dynamic balancing.  In those days it was LVDT's now its accelerometers, but the principles are the same.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86794&stc=1&d=1485513953


----------



## bazmak

yes trueing the wheel first did make it easier for balancing.Fitting cap screws thru the wheel web does tend to balance evenly both sides.I also thought maybe heavier weights to the outer rim both sides may give a flywheel effect and reduce proportionally the weight diff/out out of balance.If for instance I fit full circ weights to both sides of the web and then drill/reduce weight to balance up
Food for thought


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Barry,

Putting full circle discs on both sides will strengthen the wheel web and increase the rotating mass conciderably.  That may or may not help with the out of balance vibration depending upon how bad the original out of balance is.  Get the wheel as close to balanced as you can first.  It might pay you to visit a car tyre place and get a hold of some of the self adhesive lead weights that they use to balance alloy wheels.  If they are the same as in the UK they will come in different sizes with the weight marked on them.

If you feel like experimenting with dynamic balanceing the attached picture will show you a basic method.  What the drawing doesn't say is that the strobe should be triggered from the peak output of the LDVT.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86803&stc=1&d=1485600605

The output from the LDVT will increase with increasing out of balance.  This technique was used from about the 60's and improved in later years by the use of strain gauges and accelerometers.  As far as I know these are still used today, though computerisation has allowed more intense analysis.

HTH.

NOTE: The drawing is a modified redraw from work that I did in the late 60's.


----------



## goldstar31

I might be stealing Baz's thunder, if so I apologise.

We Brits have a couple of European( German?) firms who are making British supermarkets think. They are Aldi and Lidl. Of course, they are also 'across Europe'  and elsewhere. 

The latest offer which takes my fancy is next Sunday's offer of a Parkside Disc Sander for £29.99. There is a cheapish drilling machine etc but 'Got one'! from them already.

I've no wish for a sanding machine for wood but it seems to have great possibilities for honing cutting tools- if, and I say if, one acquires diamond pastes instead of the intended sandpaper.

What it seems to come with is guides to create and maintain angles. With tongue in cheek, the nearest equivalent is on sale as a Kennet for a mere £400+ . I think that I know what it is all about as-- I have a Kennet

Cheers

Norm


----------



## bazmak

Hi Norm,go for it .I would buy one and fit the diamond lap/discs
for honing the tools .Don't need much HP.I have fitted one to the face of
my grinding wheel and it works well.I bought 3 nos 6"dia x 1.8 steel thk
240,600 and 3000G they are only about $12 each


----------



## goldstar31

Hi Baz. Thanks but I have already done diamond disk thing- years ago but your suggestion for others is commendable. 

Earlier today, I was studying the comments on Scraping in Home Shop Machinist which is worth a look. It is not exactly where you are at- or me, but it is all good stuff.

Really going off at a tangent, Lidl's drilling machine at about £70 could be cannibalised fairly easily. I was looking at my George Thomas stuff and something similar was added to a Myford by a Mr Jim Batchelor of Leeds. Oddly, I got one of those altered 3 jaw chucks which is drilled for dividing and a detent came along with ML10. 

Might spend a bit more of 'the children's inheritance' and buy one as kit of parts!

Isn't it fun?

Regards

N


----------



## bazmak

Working on 2 fronts at the moment
1-the eccentric system pantograph etc as per drgs
2-A mounting frame for the grinder and table positions
I made a simple frame that although not ideal mounts the grinder
and allows the table to quickly fix in 3 locations,but still playing about
now back to the tool holders etc


----------



## stragenmitsuko

wonderfull , much better then the wooden blocks and table setup . 

Just thinking out loud now ,  how about adding a couple of say 50mm tubes to the central column to make a dust extraction . 

I also like your  dovetail fence setup . 



Pat


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Barry,

Love the frame.  Neat being able to swap grinder ends without faffing about.

Thinking about getting some of those lapping discs myself.


----------



## bazmak

More work on the tool head.Made the adjustable guide plate and a std
25mm sq toolholder.Made a blank insert collet ready to accept the
ER16 collet chuck when it arrives.Waiting to check the spindle is 10mm dia
before I bore out the holder.Made a new guide rail to drg.Can use the end clamps I made for my version.Still to make the moveable stop and varios
bits and bobs then I will test drive and hopefully do a video


----------



## b4dyc

Nice job on those little arm pivot screws.
Like you I made all of mine from the plan book.
The little screws and plastic bushes were a real PITA to make and mine do not look any where near as good as yours 
I didnt make a collet tool holder but did make the square holders by milling a slot in the body and silver soldering a flat piece back over. Then turned to size.
Just need to make a box for mine now.


----------



## bazmak

Nice to hear someone else has made this.Yes I too did not like the screws and plastic bushes,so I deleted the plastic bushes and made the arms from brass
As I said I made the screws by machining cap heads down to make shouldered
studs/bolts.Still a pain in the butt but they look and work well.I made the collet for the ER16 chuck first,but have in mind to make a u block for clamping pieces of high speed steel,just like one side of the lathe 4 way toolpost.Could also make
a sg broached piece by fabricating in 2 and silver soldering back together
Early days yet.Also thinking of a V,ed block to set drills at the correct oriention for simple sharpening. Regards barry


----------



## Stieglitz

Hi Bazmak,
               Was thinking about buying the kit,but instead I'll follow your build.
Allen.


----------



## bazmak

Hot weather has died down so more progress.Lots going on at themoment
and attacking on many fronts.For the eccentric system I made an ER16
collet chuck with 16mm spindle and 25mm sq head to fit the tool holder direct
Yet to try it out.I have been jumping about trying to come with a simple drill 
grinding fixture.I did successfully sharpen my first drill but lots of niggles to iron out.I made a swing table with V groove at 30o and adjusting screw etc
The mounting brkt is not rigid enough and the posn is difficult to judge
to produce the correct  back clearance on the swing so lots of trial and error
The swing is supposed to grind the drill in one movement,or locating the swing
in 2 posns to give me 2 facet grind.Will keep playing about and see where we get. Regards Barryhttp://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u664/bazmak47/drill%20jig%2001_zpssfyrf2uo.jpg


----------



## goldstar31

Baz

Very interesting so far. I confess to having 'never got very far'. The trouble - or one of the troubles which I have encountered is having to try to get the drill reset for the second lip. Others might add their experiences- which might be of mutual assistance.

I've run into 'interchangeability' problems with my two Myfords.  The spigot hole is different on the ML10 to the Super7B.
Again, the Standard 4 way tool post for the ML10 will not admit larger tools than 1/4" but these will not centre!

Indeed it IS the so called correct one.  Damn and blast!

Regards

Norm


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Barry,

Unless my eyes deceive me, the drill angle with the drill lips horizontal and grinding with drill tail below the wheel centre will result in the rake going in the wrong direction.  On the other hand if the drill lips are vertical, how are you ensuring that the drill lips are the same length ?


----------



## BaronJ

Morning Norman,

Part of the problem is that you are grinding on a curved surface.  The angle changes as you move above or below the wheel centre line. This means that you have to be able to constrain the position of the drill in several directions at once.  It is very much easier to use a flat surface and a fixed angle, then you only have to ensure that you can rotate the drill by 180 degrees accurately.  Feed ceases to be a problem because once set for one lip the other is ground at the same setting.


----------



## bazmak

Yes,lots of problems to solve.With the drill on the angle shown the 
lip is touched to the wheel and swung up to grind the relief therefore the drill lip must be slightly lower than centreline of the wheel.The drill is then turned thru 180o to grind the other lip.With the drill located by the adjusting screw the 2 lips can be ground equally.I have also made the hinged table reversible so the 30o approach angle can be reversed and the drill ground on the downswing.Tricky buts keeps me occupied.Now I have the eccentric and the collet chuck I may try some endmills


----------



## b4dyc

The ER16 system looks a good idea. Why didn't I do that instead of making all the holders  
I suppose for us, half the fun is in the making and the other half in the using. 
When I ground my first few end mills I couldnt help think to myself that it was all worth while. I would put up with poor finishes and slow cutting rates rather than buy more cutters.
As for drill sharpening, If you want to look at the drill grinding rest that I made, it can be seen on youtube here ==>  [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GWCS-qLYnw[/ame]

Plans and extra pictures are linked to a drop box account for downloading.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GWCS-qLYnw"][/ame]


----------



## bazmak

Well I have tried my system and not very impressed.Will now try the acute system and the er16 collet to grind a drill.Chose an old 10mm (the largest size the collet will hold).With this larger size of drill I found it easier to hand grind
the back relief/secondary facet as I remember the old timers teaching me as a lad.Still fairly simple on this size of drill.I then set the eccentric system after 
nudging a few n
minor niggles.I had to turn some relief on the collet nut.
I was pleasantly surprised the drill looked reasonable and cut really well
Will now work down in sizes and adjust the method t

o suit as we go


----------



## bazmak

I decided to sharpen a couple of end mills using the cup wheel
First thing was to redrill and reposition the table towards the front of the grinder
After a little messing about I came to the following conclusions
The acute system using the ER16 collet works well with sizes up to 10dia
With a holder for 12 dia and a collar for 16dia mounting direct it also works well
For 20 dia endmills I have to use my system with the ER32 collet block
The er32 collet block also works well down to 12 dia so using the 2 systems I can grind any size up 20mm dia
With this in mind I sharpened 2 x 20dia end mills both 2 and 4 flute so far I
am happy,its fiddly and tricky but should become easier with use.Next will go thru all my HSS endmills and try a regrind on  badly chipped/worn ones.First I have to make the holder for 12dia and the sq collar for the 16 Also need to set up my small set 
diamond discs to gash the centre out of the centre of each end mill

dia


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Barry,

Looking good. Nice edges on that slot drill.  Its the flutes that are hard to do


----------



## bazmak

thanks Baron,no intension of doing flutes just trying to get more life from my cutters.I have a cheap set of 2 and 4 flute endmills next step is to try to grind all of them.Getting there


----------



## goldstar31

Ah! Flutes-- and spiral ones at that! 

Years ago, someone gave me a taper turning attachment apparently specific for grinding flutes and such things as Morse taper shanks and sic blether. It was rusty then - and more rusty now. 

I've looked at it several times and thought that the 1" round steel would come in handy. 

Don't get me wrong, I possibly have most of the necessary gadgets on my Clarkson but getting a gift of an air spindle is too much to expect-- and rather difficult to make- on  home workshop  equipment.

Probably a wallet spanner would be a more worthwhile acquisition :hDe:

Norm


----------



## Blogwitch

The main problem with grinding the flutes on any cutting tool is that you usually end up with a non standard cutter.

OK if you want a special sized reamer (D-bits can do that job) or milling cutter, but other than that, they are as much use as a lead balloon, they require a lot of extra calculations and measuring (and getting them re-marked up) if you are going to use them.

Better to do as Baz is doing, just extending the life of normal cutters.

I had to look at that way of doing things before I purchased my small 12" cube dedicated milling cutter sharpener instead of a large T&G grinder with all it's complicated setup tools, I decided it just wasn't worth the extra effort to grind flutes of milling cutters.

As Norm said, a wallet spanner sorted mine out.


John


----------



## bazmak

I made a 25mm sq collar for the 16dia cutters
A 25 sq toolholder for 12mm cutters
The er16 collet holder does 1mm to 10mm
and the er32 collet holder does 20mm max down
Ready to start a sharpening production line but it might have to wait awhile
as I am expecting my DRO delivery and that will take priority.see my thread


----------



## goldstar31

As a younger and uncouth generation would say 'Very Tasty'

My progress has been marred- yet again. I fixed the 4 way ML10 turret onto the lathe only to find that it wouldn't accept anything more than about 6mm. It was a full 1/8th 'out' and if I was to get it to fit, I had to machine it down-- but there was a spring peg for the ratchet in the way.  Fished out my never used OEM turret on the Super 7 and guess what- it was the same .

Given time( ?) I might get the Acute thing built

Merde


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## bazmak

When I first bought the mill I bought a cheap boxed set of HSS end mill
containing 5 each of 2 and 4 flute end mills.With little use on mild steel
they quickly lost there edge or chipped.They worked well in alum,brass and CI
so I kept them in reserve and when cutting mild steel I used carbide to rough out with a light final cut to square out the corners.This exercise is to try and refurb as many as I can
I bought a cheap set of small diamond Dremel style wheels and set up in the lathe to grind the centre relief by hand and eye.Works well on the small end mills but too thin for the larger ones
Using the eccentric and my systems I proceeded to grind all sizes.Partial success.The 6mm 4 flute were unsuccessful due to my poor eyesight and the fact that they were well worn.The 2 flute was partial successful
It became easier as the endmill size increased.Where possible I will now buy
larger 2 flute carbide slotcutters/endmills and accept the 6mm and smaller as throwaway.I will limit the use of larger HSS for special occations etc and use mainly 2 flute.The eccentric system is now finished and works OK with a couple of extra tool holders to be made as required


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## Stieglitz

Hi Bazmak, Great job thanks for sharing.
Allen.


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## stragenmitsuko

Nice work and it was great to see the system evolve . 
Thx for sharing indeed . 
Pat


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## goldstar31

Hi Baz( et al)

I've been looking for resin- resin. Old fashioned stuff to stick on abrasive discs.  Eventually found a local branch- where earlier bought a CBN wheel. There is a lecture on tool grinding but I'm destined for the dentists chair.

So in a roundabout way, the tool firm is selling stuff from a firm called Veritas. Oddly, they have a tool rest and grinding jig 600321 which is the basis( or so it seems)  of the Acute grinding system. Veritas is international with outlets in Oz amongst other places.

Nope, the firm here is out of stock but thought you( and others) might be interested!

Regards

Norm


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## goldstar31

Years ago  mine 'went' when two winter storms removed the roof from my workshop.

I've missed it and a complete replacement   has com from Eccentric Engineerings.

It's a nice tool

and

More Anon

Norman


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