# Machinist's Workshop magazine.



## Twmaster (Nov 2, 2009)

Moderator: Please move this if you feel another forum would be appropriate. 

What do you think of Machinist's Workshop magazine?

While poking about on the Intartubes today I discovered that Home Shop Machinist magazine has a sister publication called Machinist's Workshop. They claim it's geared toward newbie machinists and features shorter projects. I find that appealing. I've never liked HSM. Every issue I've picked up I've regretted buying. Even the advertisements were so-so.

So,  is WM more of the same or worthwhile? 

Thanks.


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## applescotty (Nov 2, 2009)

I used to subscribe to both HSM and MW. I finally let me subscription lapse last year. I did keep my subscription to Live Steam. At the time, at least, it seemed like there was more machining content in Live Steam than there was in either HSM or MW. For the around $60 that the two cost each year, I decided I'd be happier spending the money buying machining related books. I think if you're a general garage tinkerer, they're probably more interesting. If you're more interested in model engineering, and specifically model engines, I don't think they're worth it.

Scott


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## black85vette (Nov 2, 2009)

I have not subscribed to any magazine in years (not even Corvette) because I find very few articles all that useful. I will buy one from time to time because a lot of vendors have good ads and I find new vendors that way. I think a company that can pay for advertising is more likely to be stable than one that just puts up a web page or sells only on eBay. Fortunately I have several book stores near here that have all the magazines on the rack and comfortable chairs nearby. They don't mind customers sitting and looking through books and magazines. So I pop in and scan through the magazines and see if there is a project or article I like and then buy just that issue. I also put my $$ into good books rather than magazines.


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## Cedge (Nov 2, 2009)

I subscribed to both, for a while, but finally let my Machinist Workshop subscription lapse. I still receive HSM and enjoy it, but the Machinist Workshop magazine has moved toward gun smithing to such a level that I lost interest. Just my personal opinion.

Steve


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 2, 2009)

_At the time, at least, it seemed like there was more machining content in Live Steam than there was in either HSM or MW_ ----I'm doing my best to change that!!! ;D ;D ;D


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## Lew Hartswick (Nov 2, 2009)

For many years (starting in I think 98) I got both (back then MW was Projects in Metal) finally after the "lawn edger" fiasco I let the MW drop and have just gotten 
my notice of "last issue unless I renew immediately" for HSM. Thinking seriously 
of letting it lapse. May just offer the entire collection for bids since I havent re-read
any of them in years. I seem to just collect magazines.  
  ...lew...


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## mklotz (Nov 2, 2009)

Both magazines have declined terribly over the years. Where once were ingenious articles for building tooling and models, now we have endless natterings about improving Chinese machinery, building stuff that any decent amateur machinist doesn't need a print to build, and a lot of niche gun-smithing with no applicability outside the intended firearm.

I keep subscribing in the fond hope that things will turn around but I doubt it. George Buliss, the new editor, seems as distant from the readership as his predecessor, Neil Knopf. I wonder if George even has a shop. 

The magazines seem to sell for their face value so one isn't losing that much by subscribing except perhaps one's hope for the mechanical arts in America.


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## Twmaster (Nov 2, 2009)

From the responses it seems pretty clear to me.... I'll spend my beans on books. Perhaps some old Rudy K. stuff....

What a shame. The MW magazine sounds like it would have been good for my tastes....

Thanks a bunch for the input.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 2, 2009)

I superscribe to Home shop machinist. I usually pick up copies of Machinist workshop and digital machinist at cabin fever. While getting others input is good you should judge for yourself. If you go to Village Press' web site you can sign up for a free no obligation copy of any of the magazines. Or pick up a copy at the local Barnes and noble etc and read through. 

And for those that do not like it maybe we should try to improve the magazine buy sending input to the editors and submitting articles for print. IMHO the editors of these mags are struggling to find out what we really want and to find quality articles. 
I am guilty as well I am not good at filling out surveys and have been asked to submit article for print I have done neither. 
Tin


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## mklotz (Nov 2, 2009)

The Home Shop Machinist forum has existed for many years. If the editors were truly interested in determining what the readers want, they would read their own forum. Instead they ignore it while they write feel-good, pablum-esque editorials and the forum degenerates into a bandstand for redneck politics and off-topic yahoos who lack a life.

There have been literally hundreds of magazine-worthy projects detailed on the forum. As far as I can remember, not one of them has shown up in the magazine.

No, their magazines are just another revenue stream, written by and, it seems now, for, MBAs who fancy themselves shadetree mechanics.


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## Twmaster (Nov 2, 2009)

Marv and Tin,

You both make good points. I am not enough of a 'machinist' to be worthy of a magazine post. I've never been asked to participate in a poll or survey from them either.

I tried to find a link for a free issue of MW. None ot be found. (Unless I'm missing the obvious)

The HSM forums really are as bad as Marv mentions. Gawd. If I had only them as an online resource/community I'd take up knitting...

I have complained more than once to the moderators of their forums. Needless to say that has gone into the ether...

I was hoping MW was a departure from HSM. I guess it's the same drek all wrapped up in a different cover... Pity. Their (monetary) loss.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 2, 2009)

Marv---With all due respect, I have to take exception to what you say. I have had a number of conversations with George Bulliss of HSM, and he is a "real" guy. He does read the forums, and it was him that suggested I put my beam engine article (which I posted on their website as well as this one) in their magazine for publication. George was a mechanical cad designer before he took up the editors seat on HSM. Mind you, I don't have a long history with model engineering magazines of any kind, (although I do have a few hundred "Hot-rod" magazines stashed around my house). From conversations that I have had with George, it seems that they have a hard time getting "publish worthy" articles from people. I know from personal experience that they pay well and promptly, and I will have more of my work published there in future.-----Brian


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## mklotz (Nov 2, 2009)

Brian, you're welcome to your opinion, of course.

I'm judging him by his (in)actions and his writings and I'll stick by what I wrote.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one.


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## Cedge (Nov 2, 2009)

Tin
It's not like the gun smithing thing hasn't been addressed. In a recent issue, one of the letters to the editor addressed this very subject and the response from the powers that be was a "we know best" tone that really put me off. Especially since I'd already just about decided to let the rag go by the wayside for that very same reason.

I've got no ax to grind with Village press. In fact I have purchased several excellent books from them. However, I'm a regular on this board because of the prevailing atmosphere of the HSM forum. I still read on their board from, time to time, but I don't post there. I've had tremendous fun sharing my builds, here, but simply have no desire to post them on the other board. I'd rather not have to put up with all the negative energy. 

Don't get me wrong. There are a huge number of very friendly folks who visit and post on HSM. I enjoy reading their comments and even consider some of them to be top notch resources. Unfortunately they seem to get overshadowed by a minority.

Steve


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## rake60 (Nov 2, 2009)

Any magazine is a for profit, business venture.
They are driven by the sponsors and advertisers who support
them. Their content is a direct reflection of that influence.

Home hobby machining is a dying diversion at best.
It is easily overshadowed by the need to turn a profit.
I have no bad thoughts toward the editors of either of those
publications. They are doing a great job from a business perspective.
They may be slowly drifting away from the original intent of the
magazines but they do need to make money, and they are.

Rick


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## bentprop (Nov 2, 2009)

I have read Hsm until the club let their sub lapse,and I have to say I don't miss it.
Having said that,any magazine is only as good as it's contributors,and I think that's where the problem lies.There are are only so many gadgets you will build before the desire for something more substantial raises the bar.The writing and photography to an acceptable standard is just too much for the average joe model engineer/hsm'er/whatever.
I find the same problem seems to be occurring with Model Engineers Workshop.
I used to look forward to reading that,but find less and less of interest to me.CNC is all well and good,but highly technical descriptions of CNC software is not why people buy a model engineering mag.Probably the same problem,not enough quality model related articles being submitted.I know I couldn't write a decent article if my life depended on it.


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## deverett (Nov 5, 2009)

applescotty  said:
			
		

> ... I think if you're a general garage tinkerer, they're probably more interesting. If you're more interested in model engineering, and specifically model engines, I don't think they're worth it.
> Scott


You've hit the nail on the head with that bit, Scott.

I subscribed to both, for a while, but finally let my Machinist Workshop subscription lapse. I still receive HSM and enjoy it, but the Machinist Workshop magazine has moved toward gun smithing to such a level that I lost interest. Just my personal opinion.

Steve

My sentiments exactly, Steve.

When my subscription is up, I will let it lapse.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## John S (Nov 5, 2009)

Just who do these magazines cater for ?
Can't say about MW as I have never seen a copy but just because a magazine has a title does it have to stick rigidly to it.

Take Model Engineers Workshop because it has model in it does everything have to be model related ?
I don't build models but still take the magazine, the first 10 of my friends that come to mind [ probably my only 10  ] all have workshop and none build models but have workshop to support a different hobby like vintage cars and bikes.

Is there a vintage car / bike workshop magazine ? No and if there was it probably wouldn't survive.

From talking with the last two editors of MEW I was told that the copies of MEW with bikes and cars on the cover outsold the issues in the same period with things like dividing heads on the cover.

Lets face it you must be a sad bastard to be able to recognise a universal dividing head on the cover of a magazine in W H Smith / Borders from 10 paces :

If MW has moved more to gun smithing then perhaps it's because sales have pointed that it's the way to go ?

One thing I have noticed is that interests change and a magazine I filed away after deciding that only two articles were worth reading gets resurrected in later years to follow up on other articles that were not of interest at the time.

I personally like the HSM forum as it's more like life, if I go out to meet people I like a turn of subjects to discuss even some that are not machining related. I used to attend a loacl model engineering club but unless you were building a steam loco or wanted to talk about steam loco's then no one was interested in talking with you.

John S.


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## Deanofid (Nov 5, 2009)

I guess you had to know what HSM was like in the good days. Joe Rice knew how to run a magazine for hobby machinists. Neil Knopf was enamored with computers, and the magazine started showing it. 

The publisher sent me a free sample this month trying to get me to re-up after quitting the mag several years ago. 
I see the new editor has none of the instincts that Joe Rice had. Six pages on how to hook up a variable speed that you can get from ebay. Another half dozen about how to attach a light to your mill.  Another bunch of pages to a project that is basically the same as one published some years back. 
There was one somewhat interesting article on adapting a collet closer. 
Rice would not have published work that had been put up elsewhere, and I think he would have limited the "how to plug in wires" write up to a few paragraphs. It's really gone down hill, and it's too bad. It was excellent at one time.


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## capjak (Nov 5, 2009)

I just tried unsuccessfully to buy three books from this company. When I got to the checkout page, it asked me to sign in. I tried all of the variations of my emasil and password without success. The site wants my account number from my subscription address but of course that is long gone. When I tried to send a message requesting my password and login name it asked for information that I don't know. There is no phone number listed. I guess that they aren't interested in my business.


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## Deanofid (Nov 5, 2009)

Capjak;
Their number is 1-800-447-7367 in the USA. Others call 231-946-3712.

Dean


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## Twmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I just got back from the local Barnes & Noble. I bought HSM and Machinist's Workshop. I'm hoping to be surprised by MW. However, it has a gunsmithing job as the cover photo. :'(

I'll report my impressions after I get to give them a look-see.


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## cfellows (Nov 5, 2009)

Times are definitely changing. I do suspect that there are a declining number of contributors to the magazines. Rudy Kouhoupt, Philip Duclose, and Frank McClean authored regular articles for these mags and they have all passed on. And I'm sure there are others that don't come to mind. I still like to find the magazines in my mailbox and look through them with anticipation, but have to agree that the good articles are fewer and farther between. However, I'll continue to subscribe for those few good articles that make my day.

Chuck


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## Twmaster (Nov 6, 2009)

Just looked through both HSM and MW magazines purchased this evening at Barnes & Noble.

HSM was what I was expecting. Somewhat disappointing. Although I did find a couple of interesting articles that I will go back and read completely. Found some interesting adverts too.

MW, Like HSM had a lot of stuff I have zero interest in. The gunsmithing articles (2 of them) were skipped over. I did find an article or two I will also go back and read in detail. 

Not sure I can say I'd subscribe to either. Perhaps after I look them over in depth I'll feel more strongly one way or other.

I also went to the home page for their live steam magazine and requested my free copy. We'll see what I think of that once I get the chance to look it over.

While looking at these two mags it sure does seem like they could indeed benefit from submissions from us home shop types. 

Maybe one of us is the next Rudy K. or Phil Duclose....


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## John S (Nov 6, 2009)

Unfortunately magazines go in cycles, when they first come out they have oodles of content to work on, lets face it they are writing on a blank page, as they progress that content gets used up and there now becomes a void.

Nothing is new in engineering except materials and electronics, everything that can be invented has been done 100 tears ago and rehashing will always come round again.

MEW is going thru the same boat because they have spun the best off Model Engineer, their core selection of authors is dying off and it's these people who get credit for trawling back issues and ideas and putting them into print.

New authors have a hard act to follow with little new content.

The only salvation a magazine has is to get new authors from the ranks who will shape the next cycle of the mag.

John S.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 6, 2009)

I have subscribed to both HSM and MW for 4 yrs. now and will continue to do so. Granted, the older issues from back when the gurus were still alive were better than the new ones but they still have value to me. You can't take the internet on the "throne" with you now can you?  (Well, you _can_ but it's not near as comfortable.

The really good articles are fewer and farther between but they are there. I'm not particularly interested in the gunsmithing articles in MW but to me their authors as a whole are meticulous, very experienced machinists, good writers and photographers. Many of the techniques shown are transferable to what I'm trying to do in my shop. If nothing else, they showed me that I'm not even _close_ to being ready to do do a bit of 'smithing for pay like I daydreamed about a couple years ago.

I also feel like I am supporting the hobby and the HSM BBS by subscribing to them. I tend to do that for whatever hobby I'm consumed with at the time.


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## Bernd (Nov 6, 2009)

Here's a challenge for you that are complaining about the contents of MW & HSM.

Come up with 6 articles for each magazine you think the membership on HMEM would be most ecstatic about and would want to make them get a subscription.

And by the way your deadline is Friday Nov. 6, 2009 at midnight. Good luck.

Regards,
Bernd


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## Alan J. Richer (Nov 6, 2009)

Got to ask - does anyone have any idea what their publication rates are for articles? Got plenty of stuff photographed up and content easy to write, but wouldn't give it away...

          Alan


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## georgeseal (Nov 6, 2009)

I subscribe to all three HSM, MW, DM

I read every artical. A gun smith write-up may contain how to radius a firing pin. I think how to radius a push rod for a IC engine.

Look at these articals as general knowledge not limited to what the author has wrote


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## applescotty (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: the old authors passing on.

I wonder if some of the folks today who otherwise would have submitted articles to the magazine instead find fulfillment posting their projects on internet forums. Those authors of the past that were good were certainly not motivated solely by the money they received. I'm sure it was helpful, but they did it for their love of the hobby and of teaching others. If they could have been posting on forums instead of writing articles, maybe we wouldn't have seen their names in the magazine....

Scott


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## Twmaster (Nov 6, 2009)

applescotty  said:
			
		

> I wonder if some of the folks today who otherwise would have submitted articles to the magazine instead find fulfillment posting their projects on internet forums. Those authors of the past that were good were certainly not motivated solely by the money they received. I'm sure it was helpful, but they did it for their love of the hobby and of teaching others. If they could have been posting on forums instead of writing articles, maybe we wouldn't have seen their names in the magazine....



I would not be shocked if this was indeed the case. With the proliferation of forum sites like this for just about every conceivable hobby it's bound to get a share of what may have been printed. 

These sites offer the author an immediate venue to display one's work as opposed to waiting months for a magazine article to hit the stands.


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## Twmaster (Nov 6, 2009)

Alan J. Richer  said:
			
		

> Got to ask - does anyone have any idea what their publication rates are for articles? Got plenty of stuff photographed up and content easy to write, but wouldn't give it away...



Alan, According to http://www.wordhustler.com/publications/5899/The-Home-Shop-Machinist.html HSM pays between $40 and $70 for a submission.


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## alanganes (Nov 6, 2009)

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> Alan, According to http://www.wordhustler.com/publications/5899/The-Home-Shop-Machinist.html HSM pays between $40 and $70 for a submission.



Just to clarify, that is $40-$70 per published page, not per submission. I don't recall all the details but they also pay some additional per photo, and extra if you supply finished drawings. You can email them to request a copy of their "authors guidelines", it will outline all of the details.


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## John S (Nov 6, 2009)

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> I would not be shocked if this was indeed the case. With the proliferation of forum sites like this for just about every conceivable hobby it's bound to get a share of what may have been printed.
> 
> These sites offer the author an immediate venue to display one's work as opposed to waiting months for a magazine article to hit the stands.



Add to that when you publish on a forum you get the choice how it's presented and laid out and not cut to fit the cloth.

John S.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 7, 2009)

For those interestes in a trial Issue of hsm or mw look here

not easy to find

http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/home?noredirect=true
Tin


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 8, 2009)

Apparently, the number of article submissions is on the rise. I've corresponded with HSM/MW editor George B. quite a bit lately on the 2 articles I'm sending him and he says all the issues are finalized (as far as articles go) all the way out to the Fall of next year!

He is a _very_ helpful and encouraging editor and responds to emails quickly. He uses Solidworks for all the beautiful drawings you see in the mags. In just a few emails with file attachments, we were able to work out which file type made my old version of TurboCAD Pro 3D drawings compatible with SW and he assured me I'd get acknowledgement (and the pay) for the CAD work.

I don't know what they pay for CAD drawings but if it's anything close to what I used to get in the model aircraft mags, it's worth the trouble. Not a huge amount but enough to buy a few toys now & then. ;D


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