# Jim builds his second v-8



## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

Seems like its time to build another v-8. The last one and the only other one I've built runs well but is missing some features I'd like it to have. It's shy a cooling system, water pump and a lube system. You ask why I just don't add these items. Well I want it running cuz I often start it just to hear it run and too, I like to show it off and I can't do that if it's torn down. It seems like a lot of work building a second v-8 but I'm retired and have to do something with my time, so why not.


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

The plan was started December 10, 2010. I wanted it to be smaller than the first. This v-8 as designed will have a 3/4 bore and matching stroke. The first part I decided to make was the crank. I started making chips around Xmas. I got the crank generally complete. Here's some pics of the progress. This pic shows me blanking out the crank by clamping it in a t-slot groove. What you can't see is flats I've milled on each end which I used for indexing the blank while standing it up in the vise for drilling. I'm milling away as much material as reasonable.





Notice the 5 centerbores in the end. The hidden end has similar centerbores.


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm still milling. I got about 4 hours into blanking out the crank.




You might notice a few notches on the clamps. I hope none of you do that.




Still milling.




Pretty much blanked out.


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

Its time to mount it in the lathe. I first placed a piece of bar in the chuck and turned a live center. I have a live center that fits in the spindle taper but I like the chuck idea cuz I think its more accurate, less likely to wobble.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I rough in the main first.




Next I turned the throw pins to final size. The tool looks like a parting tool and it is but its been ground to more resemble a turning tool. The corners have been broken. Having a chamfer in the corners strengthens the crank. I'll releave the rods to allow for the chamfer.


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 1, 2011)

Nice work, but why would you want feathers on a V8??


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

Gotta check out the throw pin diameters. I got lucky, they're all on the money. These are 5/16 - 0.002 to 0.003. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Got all the bearings turned. I kept the mains 7/16 exactly. I want to use standard bushing for mains.


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

Regarding feathers, damn good question. I'm gonna feather my features. What was I thinking.


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

It's time to stylize the end throws so here I am, back at the mills.







Got one end done.


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

Getting close to finished. Time to check out the work.



The center main is within a thou. That's close enough for government work.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



This is the final product until I get the block done. Took me about 14 hours.


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## gbritnell (Feb 1, 2011)

Hi Jim
Very nice work on the crank. What are you using for steel? It looks like it cuts pretty nicely. It's good to see someone else does stepping off with a ball mill. Are you working from a drawing or just freelancing it?
George


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## jpeter (Feb 1, 2011)

George, it's 12L14 steel. I've ruined too many tools to use strange steel. Not freehanding, Its all been planned out. Did I understand your question? Thanks for the question. BTW, we're due for 12 inches of snow here tonight. That'll keep me in the shop for a day or two.


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## kustomkb (Feb 1, 2011)

Nice work Jim!

I've been itchin' to try a V-8, I'll be following along closely.


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## metalmad (Feb 1, 2011)

Hi jim
V8's rule ;D
Pete


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## T70MkIII (Feb 2, 2011)

Great to see another V8 build, Jim. Great looking crank, and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.


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## Rivergypsy (Feb 2, 2011)

Yup, lovely work - keep it up!


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## jpeter (Feb 2, 2011)

I've made a few more parts but I've got a lot yet to make. In this series I'm going to showcase making the heads. Keep in mind there are two to make. I'm only showing pictures for one. The head is about 4-1/2 inches long and the combustion chambers are 1-1/16 apart, center to center. The bore measures 3/4 dia. The first picture shows me pocketing out the combustion chambers. They were tricky cuz I had to include a wall to provide for the 1/4-32 sparkplug. BTW, for another project I bought a bunch of them from a local autoparts company, Advance Auto Parts, for $12.50 ea. Had to order them. Took a day.





 Next, I'm spot drilling holes for the pushrods. These heads sure have lots of holes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Here I'm drilling the holes for the pushrods.





I noticed in the pic the head bolt holes are already drilled. I must have missed taking a picture of that process. The head bolts are symetrical arranged so 2 cylinders share one common bolt.

Here's the combustion chamber side with all the holes drilled, sans plug holes.


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## jpeter (Feb 3, 2011)

The process of counterboring the head bolts is not shown in any pictures but in the next picture you can see it's been done. I used a standard design but home made counter bore. The pilot on the end of the counterbore helps me control the depth. I did it in my drill press. It this picture I'm surfacing the top surfaces. I'm using a 1/2 inch ball end mill, shooting for sclape height of 0.0005. The ball end mill provides the fillet. Surfacing the faces works well cuz I don't have a lota luck using the sine plate. I don't own a set of gage blocks.





Here's another view.


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## jpeter (Feb 3, 2011)

Back to the combustion chamber side.
 I cleaned up the site for the valves. The top side of the head is parallel to the top of the combustion chamber so bolting the head down to the top side gets the combustion chamber roof angled correctly. My plan is to cut the seat right in the aluminum. I've done this before. It works well for me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Here I'm reaming the holes for the guides, 0.250.


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## jpeter (Feb 3, 2011)

I need intake passageways. Notice I bolted the head to an angle block. The proper angle came from cad drawings. I created a workplane through the passageway centerlines. Then created a block such that the workplane was parallel to solid jaw of the vise. Then, no matter how I turn the head in the vise the workplane is always vertical. At least, thats the plan. Seems to work. 




I need some sparkplug holes too. For spotting soft metal like aluminum or brass I often spot with a pointed, hardened piece of drill rod. I outta buy some spotting drills.




Here's another picture of me using a homemade angle block. Hard to see here but I'm drilling an exhaust passage.


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## LongRat (Feb 3, 2011)

Great stuff.
What are you using for path generation? The combustion chambers in particular look very nice.


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## gbritnell (Feb 3, 2011)

Hi Jim,
Did I understand you correct, you bought 1/4-32 spark plugs from the local auto parts store?
George


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## jpeter (Feb 3, 2011)

Got a pair. Put some valves in just for fun. I'm trying to keep the valve stems short so the covers don't have to be too tall yet I need room for the springs, spring covers and the guide washer base needs room too. When ever I used c-clips for valve retainers I've recessed them in the cover to kinda trap them in. Notice I didn't do that here. Anyone had any experience with non-trapped c-clips popping off?
 Hey George, NGK 1/4-32 plugs from Advance Auto Parts for $14 ea. a couple of years ago. They had to order them. It took a day.


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## jpeter (Feb 3, 2011)

Regarding the plug price. I noticed I posted a couple of different prices. The truth is I don't actually remember what I paid other than the price was under $15 ea. I've bought lots of them, maybe 25 over the last few years.


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## jpeter (Feb 5, 2011)

Hey, I'm still working on the heads. Seems like itnever ends. Here's a picture showing a few valve guides. These were turned from 5/16 brass on my Sheldon w56 lathe.




Also shown are the springs I intend to use; 0.023 wire. I plan to cut them in half. Bought them off e-bay.
Need some spring cap too.




Didn't have the proper size bore for the caps so I cnc'd the bore. That helpe me control the depth too. Shown is the fixture I built to hold them while I pocketed them out. Worked well.


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## bronson (Feb 5, 2011)

Looking really good. Loving all the pics that you are taking. Always enjoy the mini v8 builds.


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## jpeter (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks, I enjoy the feedback.


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## jpeter (Feb 6, 2011)

This is a screen shot profile of my head plan. I could have printed a jpg image but the camera was handy so I just took a shot of the screen.




Here I'm making some rocker arms. I've got 8 holes so I'll have 8 rockers.




I'm going to have to drill and tap each rocker for a set screw for setting the valve lash. In this pic I'm fashioning a fixture to hold the rocker for the drilling operation.


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 6, 2011)

Very Cool! Does this engine have a name yet?


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## jpeter (Feb 6, 2011)

No name yet but I'm open for suggestions.
 You know, you were the guy who said I messed up when I didn't document the the first build. Hopefully I'm I doing a better job on this one. I must admit its fun.


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 7, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> No name yet but I'm open for suggestions.
> You know, you were the guy who said I messed up when I didn't document the the first build. Hopefully I'm I doing a better job on this one. I must admit its fun.




Did I really say "messed up"?

I didn't call you names did I? Haahahaha!!!

I'll see you Wednesday. Also bought a 1/16 parting blade today.


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## jpeter (Feb 8, 2011)

Every v8 needs a cam. It was time to start that daunting project. After a period of time with pencil and paper stressing the few brain cells I've left I booted the computer and layed it out. The following picture is a screen shot of the cam with the lobes surfaced. 




I next had to create some tool paths. Here's a second screen shot showing essentially the same view but showing tool paths for surfacing the lobes.


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## jpeter (Feb 8, 2011)

I find the cam is less likely to warp if I blank it out first. I like turning these kind of projects between centers but the cam is quit wimpy for that work so I chucked it in a collet. I'm using a 1/16 parting blade. 

BTW, the collet chuck was a previous project. I made the nose piece from solid bar. I had some work involved getting it accurately tapered. During the project I bought a cheap tapered sleeve to convert into a nose piece but what I found was the one I was making was a better fit than the Chinese one. The drawbar, not shown or course, was made from a piece of 1 inch black iron pipe. This collet chuck is the greatest addition I ever made for my lathe.

 I made the tool post too. It from Home Shop Machinist plans from a few years ago. It's an excellent design, works really well and was easy to build. Here's the cam getting blanked out from 3/8 round bar.


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## coopertje (Feb 9, 2011)

Hi Jim,

Compliments for the build, looks very good! I hope in future to be able to generate 3D milling paths too, for now I do all in the 2D world. 

I like your collet holder, and planning to make one myself too. About the drawbar, did you use any bearing on the end? In my idea a pressure bearing will make it a lot more easy to tighten the collet in the main spindle of the lathe. I am curious to learn about your experiance.

Keep the progress coming, its a pleasure to read.

Regards Jeroen


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## jpeter (Feb 9, 2011)

For a bearing I used a brass coupling and two pieces of pipe. I locktited the threads. I could have used a steel coupling and brass washer. If I was to do it again I'd use a brass bushing instead of a coupling cuz the pipes don't remain straight in the coupling giving me some out-of-balance condition from the wobble. I had a 5 or 6 inch pulley laying around I used for a hand wheel. I don't have any trouble tightening it up enough. Not including the collets I got under $10.00 into it. Runout is pretty small if I'm careful when I seat the nose piece. It's hard to measure runout cuz collets are not always perfect and chips get under stuff more than you'd think but if I'm really careful I can measure under a thou.


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## LongRat (Feb 9, 2011)

I'm looking forward to seeing a pic of those toolpaths being run on your mill - I assume in 4th axis mode. Planning to grind cams individually in the XY plane myself, then secure onto a plain shaft with set screws.


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## agmachado (Feb 9, 2011)

Hello Jim!

First, Is very cool your job and your design !!!

I have some doubts...

What CAD program do you use ?

What is the diameter of the intake and exhaust valves ?

The diameter of the cylinder is 3/8", correct ? That is less of the one centimeter... that is very crazy!  But very, very cool !!!

Thank you for share your project with us!

Alexandre


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## coopertje (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for the explenation Jim! I will see what I can find layin around in the scrapboxes and give it a try. 

Regards Jeroen


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## 2CYL4STROKE (Feb 10, 2011)

Hi Jim 

I see that you using mastercam I have X2 Mr2 also


Jani


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## jpeter (Feb 10, 2011)

This engine is a little bigger than 3/8 bore. Its a square engine 3/4 inch bore and 3/4 stroke. The cylinders are 1.0625 inches apart and the block is going to be made from 2.5 inch square aluminum. The block length is going to be slightly less than 5 inches. Regarding the valves, they mic out at 0.270.


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## jpeter (Feb 10, 2011)

Back to work on the cam. I clamped a block on the mill table, then milled a groove along the x axis for a saddle for mounting the cam blank. Then, I drilled the cam blank at the 5 bearing sites for 4-40 screws to bolt the blank down. I find it important to hold the blank straight while I'm machining it. These bolts and holes also index it when I do the other side. To machine the bottom half I just unbolt it, rotate it a half turn and bolt it back down. I don't expect the holes to effect the bearings much.


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## jpeter (Feb 10, 2011)

Milling the top side.





It's been flipped.




Here I'm milling the bottom side. I don't know where the remaining two screws are. I'll surly get them in by the time I get that far. It takes about an hour to mill a side. This is the third try for this cam. I was having trouble getting the sides to register. The trouble turned out to be my cheap 3/16 collet had the hole off center such that the cutter was running out by .007. I bought a new American made collet and my troubles cleared up.


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## jpeter (Feb 10, 2011)

So regarding the bearings and lobes its pretty much done.


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 10, 2011)

Show Off!!!

Jim had the camshaft at the meeting last night. I got to hold it and rub it and I think at one point I hugged it. It really is as nice as it looks in the pictures. 

Hats off!!


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## jpeter (Feb 10, 2011)

Wow!
Steve, you're too kind.


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## LongRat (Feb 11, 2011)

Fantastic, I have never seen a cam made that way. Great method.


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## nfk (Feb 11, 2011)

Peter, that`s a weird way of making a cam!
I love it!
Did you made it by hand or with CNC?

Cheers,
Norberto


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## jpeter (Feb 11, 2011)

LongRat  said:
			
		

> Fantastic, I have never seen a cam made that way. Great method.



I don't think anyone else has either. Maybe I'll start a new fad. Thanks for the compliment.


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## jpeter (Feb 11, 2011)

CNC'd it. I think thou if you could draw it you could read the g code and do it manually. I'd take some time though. If you knew the math you could generate the coordinates with a spread sheet and do it manually that way too.


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## jpeter (Mar 6, 2011)

Its hard to accomplish much while traveling in Florida. The wife and I took a trip to watch the space shuttle launch. We heard a radio story about Discovery launching for the last time and decided to back the motorhome out of the garage and head south to see it. What a spectacular event to view from up close. I suggest everyone who can catch one these last few last launches. The 80 to 85 degree days were nice too.

Anyway, I've gotten back home to more important stuff, the v8 build. It was time to make some cylinders. I first turned 8 blanks from cast iron purchased from McMaster-Carr.


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## jpeter (Mar 6, 2011)

After parting off the slugs I chucked them in a collet and faced the rim to the right thickness, 0.0312. Turned the flange to the proper diameter too, 1 inch.


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## jpeter (Mar 6, 2011)

I drilled each slug to provide clearance boring bar.
Boring is next.


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## jpeter (Mar 7, 2011)

I've got the boring bar set up. I'm trying to hit 0.745.


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## jpeter (Mar 7, 2011)

Here we go. These cylinders came off the lathe at nominal 0.745 but with a 0.001 taper and some out of roundness. I think I squeezed them a little too tight in the collet. I must add, I made the collet adaptor nose piece. It runs true too but I'm beginning to wonder is it's truly round. I outta check that.


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## jpeter (Mar 7, 2011)

If I had a Sunnen hone I'd hone these cylinders but I don't so I'm going to lap them. Here is a picture of my home made 3/4 lap. 




Next is a picture of the lap being adjusted. In the background is my small hole gage style of hole gage I use to determin the condition of the cylinder. 




I'm at the drill press lapping like a puppy. I once acquired a three gallon pail of 120 grit clover compound so its what I use. Each session removes maybe 0.0002 from the diameter so just to get out the taper will take 10 adjustments of the lap. Its gonna take some time to complete all 8. BTW, the drillpress table came with all those extra holes.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 7, 2011)

I was wondering why cast iron? Are you going to use cast iron pistons? Iron/Iron is a good combo. 

I usually use steel liner/aluminum piston. I like the aluminum piston because it reduces the reciprocating mass. I'll gab at ya Wednesday.


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## jpeter (Mar 7, 2011)

Hey Steve, good question. I like cast cuz its easy to machine and lap and it holds oil well. Steel would be good too. Maybe 12l14? Basically I've always used cast and never acturally considered any other materials. Maybe I should. I'll be there Wed..


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 8, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Hey Steve, good question. I like cast cuz its easy to machine and lap and it holds oil well. Steel would be good too. Maybe 12l14? Basically I've always used cast and never acturally considered any other materials. Maybe I should. I'll be there Wed..




I'll bring my block. I used 12L14 and the finish is awesome. You can try it on the next V8! ;D


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## mu38&Bg# (Mar 8, 2011)

Is there a reason (bar doesn't fit through spindle?) you didn't machine the liner in one setup from bar and cut it off? It seems this would prevent any issues with squeezing the liner and alignment a second operation might bring?

Looking great!!


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## jpeter (Mar 8, 2011)

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> Is there a reason (bar doesn't fit through spindle?) you didn't machine the liner in one setup from bar and cut it off? It seems this would prevent any issues with squeezing the liner and alignment a second operation might bring?



Mainly, I don't like drilling and boring blind holes. I wasn't too terribly concerned about concentricity, the major purpose of not unchucking the bar between operations. 

Your point though is a good one.

 The bar was about 2 ft long and when I was turning the outside of the sleeve I could feel some shake in the lathe. I'm wondering if the outside of the sleeve is out of round because of the imbalance during the turning of the outside. If that were the case, squeezing the sleeve in the collet would transfer that out of roundness to the inside during the boring. I'm only talking about a few tenths.


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## mu38&Bg# (Mar 8, 2011)

It's just me then. I'm not scared of boring blind holes anymore. I just bored two sets of holes 1.5", 1.9" diameter 5.5" deep, and .433" diameter 2.5" deep. Parting a thin wall like that is a cakewalk as well.

I use a spindle spider if the bar is long enough.


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## jpeter (Mar 8, 2011)

Spindle spider, whats that like? Is that like a bushing with a set screw or something to keep the stock centered?.


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## mu38&Bg# (Mar 8, 2011)

Yes, 3-4 screws typically.


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## jpeter (Mar 10, 2011)

hey Guys, do me a favor and check out my buddy's cute little 4-stroke. It's on youtube.
here's the link. Give him some hits and see a fine little one lunger in the deal. Pay attention to the knife and fork rocker arrangement. If you have a good connection view it in HD.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXwa49PLX7Y[/ame]


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## jpeter (Mar 11, 2011)

I got started on the block. The block is 2-1/2 square by about 4-3/4 long. I used 2-1/2 inch square stock and first had to square up the ends. I c-clamped it to an angle block and then dialed all the sides to make sure the block was vertical.


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## jpeter (Mar 11, 2011)

Because so many features are related to the cam position I decided to next drill the cam tunnel. Drilling a hole that deep has always been a challenge for me. I posted a querry on the forum about how to drill a deep hole straight and true. I got a lot of guesses but not much qualified real help. I googled the question and found whats referred to as a d-bit. Apparently it's the original gun drill. They're easy to make so I made one, drilled a test hole and was shocked at the results. I drilled a test hole in a 5 inch block with my homemade d-bit and got a hole that was accurate, straight and exited where it was supposed to. Try it, you'll like it. Just google d bit.
I drilled for the cam using the same setup I used for finishing the end.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 11, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Because so many features are relaed to the cam position I decided to next drill the cam tunnel. Drilling a hole that deep has always been a challenge for me. I posted a querry on the forum about how to drill a deep hole straight and true. I got a lot of guesses but not much qualified real help. I googled the question and found whats referred to as a d-bit. Apparently it's the original gun drill. They're easy to make so I made one, drilled a test hole and was shocked at the results. I drilled a test hole in a 5 inch block with my homemade d-bit and got a hole that was accurate, straight and exited where it was supposed to. Try it, you'll like it. Just google d bit.



I know this one is a little smaller than the victory. How long is the block on this one?


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## jpeter (Mar 11, 2011)

4-3/4 long. I missed you at the meeting. Heard you have the croup. Get well soon.


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## jpeter (Mar 11, 2011)

Next job was to lay the block on its side and drill a million holes, tappet, cylinder and head bolt holes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Notice I finished the deck. Turns out the block of aluminum isn't exactly 2.5 inches square and the sides aren't real flat either so I took care of that problem.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 12, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> 4-3/4 long. I missed you at the meeting. Heard you have the croup. Get well soon.



Didn't get out of the doctors office until 7:30-8:00 so I would have been late. Didn't wan't to pass it along so i just stayed home. Helping a friend today so hoping for some garage time tomorrow.


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## jpeter (Mar 12, 2011)

Making Progress.
Notice I've got a little mess up on #1 cylinder. I doubt it'll hurt anything.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 13, 2011)

Looks good so far!


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## jpeter (Mar 14, 2011)

I had the misfortune of breaking off a tap in one of the head bolt holes. I did this on the last engine block too and at that time after the initial shock, heart attack, had to find a way to extract it. Looking for a way I ran across the homebuilt EDM at this web site, http://pico-systems.com/edm.html. I built the system from electronic stuff I had in the junk box and burned out the tap in short time. I made a tool from brass rod, insulated it with tape and chucked it in my CNC mill. I used the CNC control to plunge the burner through the broken 4-40 tap. 

So I resurrected the electronics, made a brass stylus, and went to burning. I've tried different fluids for edm fluid and found for this small project WD-40 works very well. I built a coffer around the hole to contain the fluid with modeling clay. Then I powered up the system. I set the machine such that a dead short drew 4 amps on the meter (around 30 volts) then tried to maintain the feed rate so the current hovered around 2 amps. An occasional blast of wd-40 kept the current flowing at the proper rate. I set the downfeed at 0.06 inches/minute but from time to time had to lift the tool to break a short. I burned out the broken tap in about 10 minutes. The threads were still good.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 15, 2011)

OH Buddy!!

You should have never told me you have an EDM!!!


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## Lakc (Mar 15, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> OH Buddy!!
> 
> You should have never told me you have an EDM!!!


ROAD TRIP!!! ;D
Just joking. I have been in search of some alum to try the chemical tap removal process myself. Due to the scarcity of chain grocery stores in SE Michigan and it not being canning season, I have not had much luck so far. I picked up a spiral 2 flute tap and dont expect to ever break that one, well worth the $13 from McMaster.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 15, 2011)

Lakc  said:
			
		

> dont expect to ever break that one




Famous last words!


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## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

Building one is not to hard. Attached is a picture of mine setting in its storage place. Most any analog amp meter that goes to 5 amps will work. The big 50 watt resister could be replaced with automotive light bulbs. I used a motor starting capacitor from an old motor I already had and I had the variac although any source of dc volts most likely would work. You maybe could use a DC welder. I used a bridge rectifier from Radio Shack because the Variac outputs AC. 




Just for fun I burned a 1/8 inch hole in a file.




And, I used a single strand from stranded copper wire to burn a hole through the shank of a #50 drll. I lost the drill before I got pictures.


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## Lakc (Mar 15, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Famous last words!


Indeed, but I was firmly knocking on wood when I typed that P)

It is amazing as it lifts two long spirals of chip out of the hole. I tend to break all my 4-40 taps via clogging. I get greedy and try to finish the bottom of the hole without backing out that last time, and when I am removing the tap it breaks. Strictly bad practice on my part.



			
				jpeter said:
			
		

> Building one is not to hard. Attached is a picture of mine setting in its storage place. Most any analog amp meter that goes to 5 amps will work. The big 50 watt resister could be replaced with automotive light bulbs. I used a motor starting capacitor from an old motor I already had and I had the variac although any source of dc volts most likely would work.


That looks very interesting. I think I have the circuitry plan in one of my strictly IC issues. Different mode of thought, however, one project at a time.


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## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

Well I got back to the block. Here's a picture of me CNCing a cylinder hole.




I just had to, I bolted the heads on just to see how it looked.


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## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

Have to make room for the crank so I turned it bottom side up and started milling the crankcase.




I made some progress. I used a .25 solid carbide cutter and surfaced all the inside surfaces. The first cavity starts 3/8 back from the front, the webs for the 3 center bearings are 1/4 wide, and the rear bearing width is yet to be determined so its wider than need be. If I can cut helical spiral cam gears I'll move the distributor forward and some to the right cuz there's more room on the right side. If I have to use bevel gears the distributor will have to be mounted furthur back to avoid the #8 exhaust valve.

 While I had it clamped up I milled slots into the camshaft tunnel for oil and used a 1/2 inch ball end mill to mill the block for the main bearings.


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## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

I made 5 main bearing caps. I drilled for the bolt holes using this setup.





The caps are held in place with 4-40 cap screws. To keep the caps aligned I bushed each hole with 1/8 drill rod bushings. I countered the holes in the blocks the same as the holes in the caps. The bushings are held in the cap side with LockTite. These bushings are pretty thin and fragle.


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## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

Here I'm making main bearings. I milled a piece of bearing bronze flat down the center line then placed 2 pieces of such back to back to form a bar again and mounted the combination in the lathe chuck, drilled it, reamed it, turned it and parted to length. I then spent 20 minutes searching the shop floor for the pieces after they flew off. I then owned 2 bearing shells. The next parting job was done in a paper cup. Below is a picture of the shells being parted off. Some solder them together first. I just chucked em. Seemed to work. I overheard Steve mention that's how he did it. In the past I've CNC'd them from plate. This worked better.


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## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's a picture of the block with the main caps and shell locktite'd in place. I'm pretty pleased with it.




Next is a picture of the crank in place with one of the caps removed.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 15, 2011)

I used to solder the 2 pieces together but I didn't see the point so I tried it without and it works fine. Just mark it somehow before you part it off so it can go back together correctly. And boy do they fly.

At the rate you are moving, you should pass my progress by months end.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> At the rate you are moving, you should pass my progress by months end.



It helps when it's your only job.

BTW, I noted last year the Red Wing Black Birds returned on March 10th. I see this year they're late, they returned on the 12th. I'm gonna mark em tardy and dock em some bird seed.


----------



## Lakc (Mar 15, 2011)

Serious drool factor there. I had thought about using drill bushings in other places, but saw the prices at McMaster and dropped that idea quickly. They dont even have thinwall bushings like that, where did you get them from? I was thinking about making them from W1, but have not made anything with enough power to walk the caps yet.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 15, 2011)

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Serious drool factor there. I had thought about using drill bushings in other places, but saw the prices at McMaster and dropped that idea quickly. They dont even have thinwall bushings like that, where did you get them from? I was thinking about making them from W1, but have not made anything with enough power to walk the caps yet.


Probably overkill but I didn't want them walking around while line boring the bearings. Anyway, I chucked a piece of 1/8 drill rod in the lathe, 5c collet chuck, and drilled it with the correct size 4-40 body drill (I forgot the size but I think 0.104 dia). I then parted them off. Grind your parting tool with a slight angle so you get a sharp finish on the right side, stick a wire in the hole before parting so when they pop off they end up on the wire and your done.

 The hard part for me is getting the holes in the cap accurately spaced with the holes in the block. The DRO comes in handy for jobs like this.

Thanks for the question.


----------



## agmachado (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi Jim,

Very nice your job! 

Please, what is the bearing width in the crankshaft ?

Thanks,

Alexandre


----------



## jpeter (Mar 16, 2011)

Alexandre Machado  said:
			
		

> Hi Jim,
> 
> Very nice your job!
> 
> ...



The bearings are 1/4 wide and 7/16 inch dia. the shells are 1/2 od and of course 7/16 id. The two end bearings are bushings and the three center bearings are shells. The rear end bearing will eventually be replaced with a flanged for thrust. The temporary bushing placed in the rear position was to help with the line boring job.
Thanks for the question.


----------



## agmachado (Mar 16, 2011)

Thank you Jim for your informations!

I think very cool this type project! In really, I love model internal combustion engines with multi-cylinders. 

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## jpeter (Mar 17, 2011)

At the rear of the v8 there's more room on the right side. I really want to use helical distributor gears to allow me to offset the distributor to the right of the cam and forward. Helical spiral gears also provide me the opportunity to extend the distributor drive down into the crankcase to maybe drive an oil pump. So today was the day to see if I could make spiral helical gears of 3/8 OD. My plan was to first make spur gears of the required size to prove out the tool and process. I'd like to show you a picture of the tool making program but due to a power failure in the area I lost it before I had a chance to save it so I'll just tell you about my procress. 

I made the cutter by first using a feature of the program to generate a profile of the gear. I designed it with an even number of teeth so my spindex could index the cutting process. I copyed the shape of the space between two teeth to generate the profile for the cutter. Using that profile I revolved a surface around the center line. I then stood a short piece of drill rod vertical in the milling vise and CNC'd the surface on the end of the rod. I next layed the rod horizontal and milled it half away for a distance. This picture might make it more clear. Keep in mind, this cutter is chippedat the tip. It worked well though for quite a while.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 17, 2011)

The next step was to use the tool in the spindex to machine some teeth. This picture shows the process after I turned the spindex 45 degrees for helical gears but you get to see my spindex and setup. I intended to make a second pair of gears for pictures but for reasons which I'll explain later I don't have those pictues. 




So after all that I milled a couple of spur gears. They really mesh smoothly.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 17, 2011)

I then slid the spindex 45 degrees and machined a couple of spiral gears. Now I know the tool should follow the helix. I don't have a 4th axis and what with the gear width being only 1/4 inch or so I decided to give it a try. I must say I was extremely pleased with the way the gears meshed. I made a test setup by drilling 2 right angle offset holes in a block and driving the gears for a while. Unfortunately I stressed them too much and stripped them. I'm gonna make another pair. 

Then we had a general power failure and when the power came back on my mill electronics was toasted. I think I'm done for a while.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Mar 17, 2011)

Are you only making one of these engines or two?

You know I have a birthday coming up! At the rate you are moving It should be done in time.


----------



## agmachado (Mar 17, 2011)

Hi Jim,

Very cool!

But... how do you specified the geometry for make the cutter tool ?

For example:

The crankshaft and camshaft... we know that the camshaft need to rotate once for every two laps of the crankshaft. So... there is also a distance between both and the diameter of each gear depends of size and geometry of the teeth... okay ?

Maybe would be better ask... How define the geometry of the teeth...

There is better some form to understand this ?

Thank you,

Alexandre


----------



## Lakc (Mar 17, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Now I know the tool should follow the helix. I don't have a 4th axis and what with the gear width being only 1/4 inch or so I decided to give it a try. I must say I was extremely pleased with the way the gears meshed.



I had always thought thats how it worked, as thats always been the most confusing part of it for me. Thanks for posting that. 


> Then we had a general power failure and when the power came back on my mill electronics was toasted. I think I'm done for a while.


Thats been happening quite a lot around here lately.  Sorry about the mill electronics.



			
				Alexandre Machado  said:
			
		

> There is better some form to understand this ?



Not wanting to thread hijack, but go here: http://www.modelenginenews.org/
On the menu bar on the left, expand the resources tab and click on How to ?, follow that to skew gears. 


But Jim, by all means, please expand on your methods. For this type of complicated machining, the more explanations the better the chances of something sinking in.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 17, 2011)

Alexandre Machado  said:
			
		

> Hi Jim,
> 
> Very cool!
> 
> ...


The gears in previous post are to drive the distributor from the cam. To answer your question though, I designed the distance between the crank centerline and the cam centerline 1 inch. That being the case, the pitch diameter of the crank spur gear needs to be 0.666... inches and the gear on the cam needs a pitch diameter of 0.666..X2 or 1.333... inches. Profile? I have a computer program to create the desired profiles. There are way though to do it manally. The tooth profile is close to an arc so cutters can be shaped with an end mill or a fly cutter of the proper size and will work well enough.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 17, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Are you only making one of these engines or two?
> 
> You know I have a birthday coming up! At the rate you are moving It should be done in time.


You're the guy who makes 2 or more at a time. You're ahead of me and you're making 3, with blowers and carburetors yet. I'm in a hurry cuz I'm an old man and starting to realize I have only limited time left.  And besides, I have to get done before the Japanese neutrons arrives.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Mar 17, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> You're ahead of me and you're making 3, with blowers and carburetors yet.



I'm only making 2. I figured somebody would have a birthday coming up. Oh yeah, it's me!


----------



## agmachado (Mar 17, 2011)

Okay Jim!

I understand... What's the computer program that you use for this? Is not a common CAD program, correct ?

Jeff, thank you too! I found the informations.

Alexandre


----------



## jpeter (Mar 19, 2011)

So I'm told necessity is the mother of invention. I think it worked out here cuz I needed to get my mill back running. After a little trouble shooting I found one of the low power power supplies had taken a dump. I ordered a new power supply off ebay but but who knows how long it will be getting here. What I did today was hook up an old ATX computer supply in temporary fashion. Here's a picture of the lash up. It's work'n. I'm happy. My insurance man said he'd buy me a new one but I haven't yet decided if my soul could stand the required dishonesty. Involved would be lying to him about not being able to find anyone able to fix it. A new drive though full of Gecko drives would be nice. We'll see.


----------



## Lakc (Mar 19, 2011)

The PC power supply has soo many uses. :bow:


----------



## LongRat (Mar 20, 2011)

Alexandre Machado  said:
			
		

> Okay Jim!
> 
> I understand... What's the computer program that you use for this? Is not a common CAD program, correct ?
> 
> ...



Alexandre, I don't know what Jim is using but take a look at Geardxf. I have found it very useful - good free program: http://www.forestmoon.com/Software/GearDXF/.

Jim, just out of interest what drives are you using for your mill currently? Mine's been running for 6+ years on Gecko G201s so I certainly would recommend Geckos, they are great.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 20, 2011)

LongRat  said:
			
		

> Alexandre, I don't know what Jim is using but take a look at Geardxf. I have found it very useful - good free program: http://www.forestmoon.com/Software/GearDXF/.
> 
> Lots of programs generate gear profiles. Autocad Inventor will do it, SolidWorks too, and Mastercam. Google Gearotic Motion. It's demo version is free.
> 
> Jim, just out of interest what drives are you using for your mill currently? Mine's been running for 6+ years on Gecko G201s so I certainly would recommend Geckos, they are great.



I've got an old Camtronics servo drive circa 1999. It was built before Gecko was invented. Camtronics is still around, they're a good outfit with which to do business and this drive works well. There current drives use Geckos. I would like to go to Gecko drives for only one reason. When I power this drive up the motors glitch a few thousands of an inch. Therefore, if I'm in the middle of a project I generally leave the drive on if I have to leave or else I have to be careful to leave a datum point I can get back to. I understand Geckos don't do that. Anyway, I've got lots of ways to spend a thousand dollars and a new servo drive at this moment is not on the top of the list .


----------



## LongRat (Mar 20, 2011)

The G201 stepper drives I use do that jumping - it is because the motors mechanically drop into the closest step when you power them down, and if the 'on' command requires them to go to a microstep position you will jump to it. If you power down on a full step you don't get this - but you never know if you are on a step or not so it doesn't help. You would either have to have repeatable home switches or re-reference against your vice/part etc. probably as you currently are doing.
Having said that I am not sure if the servo drives behave the same way. The latest G320X is awesome and only $121 each if you can re-use you existing power supplies that is not an expensive option.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 20, 2011)

LongRat  said:
			
		

> Having said that I am not sure if the servo drives behave the same way. The latest G320X is awesome and only $121 each if you can re-use you existing power supplies that is not an expensive option.


 
Good point. If I made changes I change out the motors to 1100 oz-in servo motors. They're available for a couple of hundred each. I currently have 600 oz-in Aztec (spelling) motors. I'd change the drivers to Gecko's latest servo driver with a 90 volt power supply. I'd be a happy man. I'd like faster rapids cuz currently I only get about 25 in/min on the x and y and 9 on z. That being said, the BP will do a lot of nice work. For example, I circular interpolated the holes for the v8 cylinders and they're round as being reamed.


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## jpeter (Mar 25, 2011)

I've been busy but not in the shop. I finally got back to it. I made a couple of helical spiral gears to drive the distributor and decided I needed to test them out. I made a setup to run them for a while. I ran them for an hour without any noticeable wear. This setup also gave me an opportunity to measure the center to center distance.


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## jpeter (Mar 25, 2011)

Before I could drill the block for the distributor I had to lay out its position in the cad program. I could now do that because I now know the spacing required for the gears. Here's a picture of the layout.


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 25, 2011)

I hope to learn how to cut gears some day. Good job!


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## jpeter (Mar 25, 2011)

You know, they run well but don't look all that good. I know a guy who has a gear reduced servo motor laying around so today I ask him if I could use it. He gave it to me. I'm gonna set it up on a fourth axis with it. I only have three outputs but I think I can use y output for driving A. I can't think of a need for y when I'm cutting gears. All I'll need is x, z and the rotational axis, I think. Maybe I can make some better looking ones.


----------



## jpeter (Mar 25, 2011)

So I drilled the block for the distributor. It's 15 degrees off of vertical.




I made a distributor shaft and stuck it in the hole.


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## jpeter (Mar 25, 2011)

Next project, make some timing gears. Here I'm cutting spokes in 1/16 brass sheet. Look closely you'll see teeth cut on the right side near the clamp. I cut one side, then reclamp and cut the other. I bore the center hole in the same setup so I don't loose my center. Having the center in the center is pretty important when making gears.





A fellow need a pinion too.






so here's they are, all ready to be installed.


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## jpeter (Mar 25, 2011)

Another picture after the installation.


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## agmachado (Mar 25, 2011)

Hi Jim,

Very, very cool!!! :bow:

Cheers,

Alexandre


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## bronson (Mar 25, 2011)

The engine is looking great, can't wait to see and heard it run. Your work is really awesome.


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## jpeter (Mar 26, 2011)

Although the helical distributor drive gears worked ok I wasn't pleased with the looks. Today I made a new pair. One is the real deal. The second is only for a test pinion. The real one will have to be cut in the camshaft. I haven't yet cut the cam to length so I'll have to wait to cut that gear. Here's a picture of the finished pair. they work really well. When installed in the block they turn really smoothly.


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## jpeter (Mar 26, 2011)

I don't own a rotary table but I do have a spare gear drive servo motor. I machined a coupler to attach the 3/8 stock to the end of this motor. The coupler is seen in the movie. I made a support to hold the stock near the end being machined, also obvious in the movie. I programmed the a axis drive motor so a distance of 1 gave me exactly 1 rovolution. I wrote a program that plunged the z then advanced the x axis .5 inches while rotating the A axis 1/2 turn. That math returned a 45 degree helix, just what I wanted. I took three passes for each of the 8 teeth. First pass was 0.020 deep, second pass was 0.060 and a final pass 0.081 deep. The final depth came from a gear formula book, the same place from where the tooth form came. Well anyway, here's a movie of it all happening.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm finally getting back to the project. Gonna start off with a question: How much space do I need between the cylinder and block wall for a water jacket? I have only 0.032 space between the cylinder wall and the block. Is this enough or do I need to find more? I know water can flow through that area but the block won't hold much volume. And too, how far down in the block should the water jacket go below the cylinder top? The motor has 3/4 dia pistons and 3/4 stroke. Any information about this subject would be appreciated.


----------



## awJCKDup (Apr 11, 2011)

Jpeter, I was just looking at the pic of the timing gears being milled---What size endmill was Used? 
Thanks John


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## stevehuckss396 (Apr 11, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I'm finally getting back to the project. Gonna start off with a question: How much space do I need between the cylinder and block wall for a water jacket? I have only 0.032 space between the cylinder wall and the block. Is this enough or do I need to find more? I know water can flow through that area but the block won't hold much volume. And too, how far down in the block should the water jacket go below the cylinder top? The motor has 3/4 dia pistons and 3/4 stroke. Any information about this subject would be appreciated.



My water jackets are .100 larger so .050 all the way around. The jacket starts .250 down and is .500 tall. If you want to look at the drawing I will have the full set there Wednesday.

If you need more room you could always go with a smaller bore and then groove the outside of the liner.


----------



## Lakc (Apr 11, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I'm finally getting back to the project. Gonna start off with a question: How much space do I need between the cylinder and block wall for a water jacket? I have only 0.032 space between the cylinder wall and the block. Is this enough or do I need to find more? I know water can flow through that area but the block won't hold much volume.



I would think along the lines of how much water can you ultimately move, then figgure out how much space is needed to not impede the flow.



> And too, how far down in the block should the water jacket go below the cylinder top? The motor has 3/4 dia pistons and 3/4 stroke. Any information about this subject would be appreciated.



Full size practice of late only keeps water around the top 25% or so of the cylinder for iron liners in a aluminum block. At our scales, we need all that just for head bolt thread engagement. I would jacket the rest as deep as I dared, but most of the convection will be from liner--deck--coolant rather then liner--coolant.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 11, 2011)

awJCKDup  said:
			
		

> Jpeter, I was just looking at the pic of the timing gears being milled---What size endmill was Used?
> Thanks John


If you're asking about the gear cut from 1/16 plate I rough cut first with a 1/8 end mill then followed up with a 1/16 end mill. I don't recall what I used on the spokes. The same sequence was used on the pinion.


			
				Lakc  said:
			
		

> I would think along the lines of how much water can you ultimately move, then figgure out how much space is needed to not impede the flow.
> 
> Full size practice of late only keeps water around the top 25% or so of the cylinder for iron liners in a aluminum block. At our scales, we need all that just for head bolt thread engagement. I would jacket the rest as deep as I dared, but most of the convection will be from liner--deck--coolant rather then liner--coolant.


For a long time was thinking of pocketing in from the side for the waterjacket, then putting a cover over the opening. Then, like what you're saying, I got thinking the water needs to be up near the top of the cylinder. Cutting in from the side below the head bolts would keep the jacket and water well below the top and not cool the cylinders up where they need to be cooled. I machined my sleeves with a 1/16 flange on top. I think I'll use half that, 1/32, for water space. My sleeves have 1/16 walls. I might turn half that away too. Between the two I'll have a 1/16 space for water. What do you think?


----------



## awJCKDup (Apr 11, 2011)

Yep, that's what I was curious about---Thanks and keep up the good work.
John


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## jpeter (Apr 12, 2011)

Got started again. Had a google redirect virus on my laptop. Really hosed it up. It got me sidetracked for a while. Last couple of days I made some parts for the distributor. Here's a picture of the stem.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 12, 2011)

Next step was to make the housing. I milled most of it. Here's a picture of the base being milled to shape from the bottom. Its got ears for bolting down the cap so I had to mill it in two stages. I used a 1/4 dia, 4 flute cutter.





Here's another picture of the milling out of the top side. It's being held down by the ears. I had a crash here. I didn't allow for the height of the clamp and ran the cutter into the clamp. Broke the cutter in half and almost milled the clamp in half. The cutter was double ended. Now I have two single ended cutters. The cutter in the picture is not the same one but the clamp is. Notice the gouge in the clamp.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 12, 2011)

Well, I got the distributor stem and base pressed together. The tap is 2-56. 
Everything seems to fit well. I coated the parts with locktite before the pressing.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 12, 2011)

Got started on the cap. I used the same program I used on the last 1 inch distributor I made. Some time ago I picked up a block of Delrin. I'm machining the cap from this black Delrin. It machines well. I contoured the perimeter using a 3/16 flat end mill, roughed the top with an 1/8 ball end mill and finished it with a 1/16 ball end mill. When milling with bits as small as 1/16 I over speed the spindle by running the VFD up to 80. It seems to help.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 12, 2011)

This is the finished product, ready for wires.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 12, 2011)

The distributor needs a steel shutter for rotating the spark. The shutter also controls the endplay in the shaft. Here I'm machining the shutter from a piece of 1/4 inch steel plate. Gotta go slow when machining settl with small tools. I'm feeding at a rate of 1 inch per minute. If I remember it's cutting multipal passes 0.1 deep. Interestlingly, the cam program created a glitch by substituting a g3 word when it should have been g2. This isn't the first time this has happened. Good thing Mach 3 has the tool path screen. I've found if the tool path screen doesn't look right I better be checking the program.






Here's the finished product. The shaft is 3mm dia. Why the odd size, I had the bearings.






Here's a pic of the cam with the gears attached and milled.


----------



## trumpy81 (Apr 13, 2011)

GDay All,

I have a really silly question to ask.

Should the distributor/cam gear ratio be 1:1 or should it be 2:1? Or to put it another way, should the distributor rotate at crank speed or cam speed?

The old grey matter is getting a bit fuzzy these days.

jpeter, I have been watching your progress for a while now and I am very impressed with your work. I'm looking forward to the completion of this excellent engine and I'm hoping that one day I will be able to produce something like this also.

Keep up the good work Thm:


----------



## jpeter (Apr 13, 2011)

Trumpy, the ratio is 1:1. The distributor turns the same speed as the cam. Certain models have the distributor attached directly to the cam. The cam turns half the speed of the crank, 2:1.
Thanks for the fine comments.


----------



## trumpy81 (Apr 13, 2011)

GDay All,

jpeter, thanks for that. I was thinking about how much easier it would be to use a hall effect sensor, reading the crank position as opposed to setting up a distributor as you have done, and for some reason I confused myself, I just couldn't remember what speed the distributor should be running at.

My biggest issue is how scary it is to cut the drive gears for the cam/distributor as you have done.

Any chance of sharing the g-code you used to cut them? I know it won't fit my setup, but I might be able to get a better understanding of how to cut them.


----------



## Chaffe (Apr 14, 2011)

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> GDay All,
> 
> jpeter, thanks for that. I was thinking about how much easier it would be to use a hall effect sensor, reading the crank position as opposed to setting up a distributor as you have done,


Hi, even with a hall sensor you would still nedd to differentiate which one of the eight cylinders is firing at any one time, so the need for a distributor is still present, hope this helps


----------



## trumpy81 (Apr 14, 2011)

Chaffe  said:
			
		

> Hi, even with a hall sensor you would still nedd to differentiate which one of the eight cylinders is firing at any one time, so the need for a distributor is still present, hope this helps



I should have mentioned multiple coils etc. Of course that is not very practical or cost effective. I am simply exploring ways to achieve the same thing.

Using Glow Plugs would be a solution but then you'd have to maintain a fairly high idle speed to keep them lit.

I guess I will just have to cut those gears :big:


----------



## jpeter (Apr 14, 2011)

Regarding the gears, miter gears I think are the most commonly used gears for driving the distributor. I just wanted to be different. Firing 8 different coils would create its own set of problems such as how to find room for 8 different hall effect switches in a 1 inch diameter distributor. 
As simple as it seems hall effect switched electronic ignitions are not all that trouble free either. They come with their own set of problems, much having to do with having to arrange the switching device so close to the high tension part of the distributor. A 1 inch dia distributor provides such a small space. You've got a cap and rotor, magnets shutter for timing, hall sensor, wires resistors zener diodes, etc, all in a small pill bottle sized space only 1 inch tall. And besides all that it, what with sparks jumping and the engine running right near by it gets hot as hell. Do a search on hall effect ignitions and you find em not all that easy to keep workn'.
Thanks for the question. It provided me a chance to spout a little about a troublesome issue.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's th gear cutting code. Keep in mind, the rotary axis is Y and Y1 on my machine means 1 full turn. As an example, Y.5 translates to 1/2 turn of the rotary axis. Most mill define the rotary axis as A. In my case I unplug the y motor and plug the cables into the rotary drive. After the program completes I then need to reset y to zero before restarting for the next tooth. I'd make the reset to zero in code. Iif I knew how I would. I'd also like to know how to program the code so it'd run 8 times then quit.
I know, clear as mud.

code:
g90 g1f.5 
g0z.1 
x0 
z0
y0
g1z-.02
x-.5y-.5
g0z.1
x0y-.1
z0y0
g1f1
g0z.1
x0
z0y0
g1z-.06
x-.5y-.5

g0z.1
x0y-.1
z0y0

g1f1
g0z.1
x0
z0y0
g1z-.081
x-.5y-.5

g0z.1
x0y.125

z0

m30
%


----------



## trumpy81 (Apr 14, 2011)

GDay All,

jpeter, thanks for sharing the code. I was expecting something really complex but it turns out its not that hard at all.

I've rewritten your code to cut 8 teeth non stop then exit, well at least I hope I have :big:

I've added the files to this post.

Use the un-commented file for a TEST run first. Let me know if you find any errors with it. I can't test it here because it's set up for your machine.

It shouldn't be too hard to rewrite it to suit my machine setup though, again, thank you! :bow: 

View attachment 45deg Helix Gear - Commented.nc


View attachment 45deg Helix Gear - Un-Commented.nc


----------



## jpeter (Apr 16, 2011)

Hey Trumpy, thanks for the code. If I was gonna do it again though I think I'd use g91 more. By using g91 I could cut all 8 teeth by just copying the code and pasting it 8 times. My wish though is to learn how to add a for-next loop or to increment a variable to run the loop 8 times and then end the program. There's got to be a way.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 16, 2011)

Today was the day to cut in water jackets. I counterbored the cylinders 5/8 deep then cut channels between them. The water is going to enter low in the front and exit high in the back through a channel not yet cut. I intend to drill a Channel parallel to but above the camshaft to just before the distributor shaft. From there I'll branch to the left and right rear cylinder water jacket. Wish me luck. This block is getting so many holes in it it'll most likely collapse in the vise. I had dreamed of returning the water through a channel in each head but there's just no room in the heads for a channel. Damn, a design oversite i guess.


----------



## trumpy81 (Apr 17, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Hey Trumpy, thanks for the code. If I was gonna do it again though I think I'd use g91 more. By using g91 I could cut all 8 teeth by just copying the code and pasting it 8 times. My wish though is to learn how to add a for-next loop or to increment a variable to run the loop 8 times and then end the program. There's got to be a way.



GDay All,

jpeter, I don't know about for-next loops, but I do know you can add a subroutine and then call it during the execution of the code. Unfortunately, I'm still not sure how it actually works and from the code that I've seen, it differs greatly from one controller to the next. For that reason I tend to code without it, that way I can use the code on just about any controller, should the need arise.

Looking at your latest pics, I'm guessing that this is going to be a flat head, side valve engine?

It looks great whatever it is :big: And I'm totally jealous because you're actually doing it and I'm still dreaming :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Apr 17, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> My wish though is to learn how to add a for-next loop or to increment a variable to run the loop 8 times and then end the program. There's got to be a way.




Check into the M98 command


"M98 P100"

This line will jump to sub routine 100


This would be sub 100

"O100
command
command
command
M99"

The first line is the letter O and the number 100


----------



## jpeter (Apr 17, 2011)

Thanks guys for code info. I think macro would be the way to go. if I was making gears or splines with lots of teeth I'd have to get some type of loop working. Its too time consuming to repeat 100 lines of code when a macro or loop of some type would do.

About the engine design, style, type: Its gonna be an overhead valve v8. the picture shows the cylinder holes in which I'll insert sleeves, picture coming.


----------



## coopertje (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi jpeter,

First off all compliments for your build, its looks fantasticband the finishing on your parts is very nice.   :bow:

In addition to the M98 there is a trick to move for example the rotary table inside the sub rotine. When you enter the subrotine you switch to the relative distance mode G91. Then move the rotary table for the desired amount and in the next line switch back to absolute disctance mode with G90 to the rest of the rotine code.

I will check how to repeat a rotine for x times, cannot find it now.

Regards Jeroen


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## coopertje (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi jpeter,

To repeat a command you can put the letter L behind the gcode. In the example of Steve it would look like

M98 P100 L8

Where 8 is the number of repetition.

Good luck, regards Jeroen


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## agmachado (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi Jim,

I love that !!!

th_wwp

Cheers,

Alexandre


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## jpeter (Apr 18, 2011)

Got in some shoptime yesterday. Worked on installing some sleeves. Haven't yet decided how I'm gonna return water to the radiator. Still thinking about that. It'd been nice if I'd planned water passages when I was designing the heads. Seems to have been an oversite. I hate it when that happens.


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## Chaffe (Apr 18, 2011)

Looking good jim, what are you using to seal the bottom of the liners from the oil in the sump? loctite or similar?


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## kustomkb (Apr 18, 2011)

Really nice work Jim!


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## jpeter (Apr 18, 2011)

Chaffe  said:
			
		

> Looking good jim, what are you using to seal the bottom of the liners from the oil in the sump? loctite or similar?


I'm thinking loctite but open for suggestions. Hey, thanks for the comments guys.


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## kcmillin (Apr 18, 2011)

Jim, I used locktite with an interference fit between the liner and block. I tested it with a vacuum pump, it held a vacuum for a few hours before I took it off. I have yet to test it since I ran the engine, and it has yet to see water, so I cannot be certain it will work, but I am confident.

Great work BTW, this is turning out to be quite the little engine. The way your water jackets are open to the bottom of the head is great, this should aid in the cooling of the head a little bit I would think.

Kel


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## jpeter (Apr 18, 2011)

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Jim, I used locktite with an interference fit between the liner and block. I tested it with a vacuum pump, it held a vacuum for a few hours before I took it off. I have yet to test it since I ran the engine, and it has yet to see water, so I cannot be certain it will work, but I am confident.
> 
> Kel



Yeah, I happend across Conley some time back, maker of the Conley V8s. I ask him then how he sealed his engines and he said, "Loctite." I've got the fit such that I need to push the sleeves in with thumb pressure so Loctite outta work. I might loosen the fit a little yet. I don't want to chance distorting the sleeves after working so hard to lap them round.
 Thanks for the comment.


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## stevehuckss396 (Apr 18, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I ask him then how he sealed his engines and he said, "Loctite."



Hi Jim!

Try the green loc-tite. It is thinner than the red and will creep into tighter spots. I painted both mating surfaces with a Q-tip after cleaning with brake cleaner. Should do ya! 

If you can wait another month the Loc-tite rep should be at the meeting next month.


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## jpeter (Apr 18, 2011)

Hey Steve, thanks for the tip. Wait a month, I don't think so. 

My plan for tomorrow is to get on the cad tube and try to design an intake manifold that incorporates a water return passage from the back cylinders to center front. I think I can take water up throuh the head into the intake manifold. Gonna be tough but I'm gonna try it. What do you think of that idea?


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Apr 18, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Hey Steve, thanks for the tip. Wait a month, I don't think so.
> 
> My plan for tomorrow is to get on the cad tube and try to design an intake manifold that incorporates a water return passage from the back cylinders to center front. I think I can take water up throuh the head into the intake manifold. Gonna be tough but I'm gonna try it. What do you think of that idea?



What about some tubing in the lifter area under the intake manifold? Come out the block and use a tee fitting to head back to the front.


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## jpeter (Apr 18, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> What about some tubing in the lifter area under the intake manifold? Come out the block and use a tee fitting to head back to the front.


Thats a good idea too.


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## Drei (Apr 19, 2011)

hi,

does anyone know from where i could buy materials like the cold rolled steel used for the cranckshaft etc. im looking for a site which could ship to Malta.

Thanks
Drei


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## Swede (Apr 19, 2011)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Yeah, I happend across Conley some time back, maker of the Conley V8s. I ask him then how he sealed his engines and he said, "Loctite." I've got the fit such that I need to push the sleeves in with thumb pressure so Loctite outta work. I might loosen the fit a little yet. I don't want to chance distorting the sleeves after working so hard to lap them round.
> Thanks for the comment.



Got to agree on the loctite. The "sleeve" formulation is great stuff, but does count on having clearance between the head and the liner, or whatever two surfaces need to be secured. It's pretty disturbing to generate intentional clearances of 0.001" or more, but less clearance and there's no seal or bond.

Really nice work! Thanks for posting.


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## Chaffe (Apr 20, 2011)

Drei  said:
			
		

> hi,
> 
> does anyone know from where i could buy materials like the cold rolled steel used for the cranckshaft etc. im looking for a site which could ship to Malta.
> 
> ...


ebay is a good place, ebay uk may ship to malta


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## stevehuckss396 (Aug 18, 2011)

Hello Jim!

Just wondering if there is any progress on the little V8.


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## jpeter (Dec 1, 2011)

Well, I think I laid off long enough. A couple of weeks ago I decided to get back to the v8. I've been walking in circles for some time trying to deal with the thin heads and how to route the cooling system water back to the radiator. Seems the only good way was to make new heads. So that's what I'm gonna do. Of course to avoid the spark plugs and all the other features of the heads by the exhaust manifold I decided to make the exhaust header first. I first drafted up the head and manifold. Then I mocked up exhaust outlets on an aluminum block, screwed on the flanges for the manifold, bent up some 1/4 od stainless tube into a header, milled some flanges, then bolted the flanges onto the block. Here's how they look on the screen. As of yet the head is only in the computer.


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## steamer (Dec 1, 2011)

+1 for loctite cylindrical bonder. The old 620 or the more modern 680.

It's not coming out with out a torch......that's no exageration.

I have several 6 HP ultra precision spindles running in various far east countries 24/7 with the motor rotors put on with 680 and nothing else....my calculations state that the rotor would need a 80 TON press to be removed based on a 4000 psi shear strength....It would take about 450F to break the bond.

Dave


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## jpeter (Dec 1, 2011)

I bent up some 1/4 od stainless tube and silver soldered it to the flanges which, by-the-way, were screwed to a block with 2-56 cap screws. before bending I filled the tube with soft solder. I'm sure better materials exist but I had the soft solder. The bending die has a 0.450 diameter so the bends have a 0.225 radius. I think with spring back and all they're more like 0.25 radius. For a bending die I grooved a 1 inch dia. rod the proper depth by placing the rod in my spindex and hand feeding a 1/4 inch ball end mill until I had the desired depth. I think I took 2 passes. I widened the slot 0.002 and made another pass. The shoe is flat with a 1/8 radius to match the tube. The bends are easy. Getting the bend in the right spot is the hard part. Here's one side. Needs polish. Now I need a mirror image for the other side.


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## jpeter (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks for the info on the locktite. No doubt that's what I'll be using. A company rep was going to give a lecture at the club meeting on Locktite, with lots of free samples but he's yet to show up. I'm still waiting.


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## steamer (Dec 1, 2011)

Try this

http://store.fiberinstrumentsales.com/files/33289.pdf


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## jpeter (Dec 16, 2011)

Had to make a couple of heads. First I machined the combustion chambers.





Finished that and drilled some holes too.


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## jpeter (Dec 16, 2011)

I flipped the head over next and milled the top surfaces. 





Got that done.


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## jpeter (Dec 16, 2011)

Missed photographing cutting it out. Drill and tapped some holes for spark plugs, exhaust manifold and rocker supports. Milled and bolted on some rocker supports, exhaust pipes and added a spark plug for the photo. Got 4 extra holes too. Gonna have to plug them cuz they go directly into a 5/32 water passage drilled from front to back. The idea is to have cooling water enter the front of the block, circulate around the sleeves, exit the block into the head where it travels through the head to exit into the intake manifold at the front of the engine.


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## stevehuckss396 (Dec 16, 2011)

Pictures dont do justice. Looked better Wed night when i got to hold it!!!!!!!!!!!


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## /// (Dec 16, 2011)

Oh boy! Another thread I have missed. 

Jim, love those headers, nice work!

Now I'm off to read this thread from start to end ;D


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## jpeter (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words. You guys are too nice.


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## jpeter (Jan 27, 2012)

The build's been going slow but I have made some slight progress. Below is a picture of the water pump housing with the impellor. I've got no pictures of the base. The water pump base incorporates the timing gear cover and the lip seal I intend to use on the front of the crank shaft. 






Here's the pump attached to the base. The base is attached to the front of the engine. The big hole in the base through which the crank extends is to provide for a 3/4 od lip oil seal.






Notice too, I've got the oil pan in place. Below is a better picture of the oil pan.






So far so good.


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## Jeremy_BP (Jan 28, 2012)

Looking really nice. I can't wait to hear it run.
Also, I noticed your drawing textbook in the background. I use the same one!


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## agmachado (Jan 28, 2012)

Jim,

Very cool... :bow:

Cheers,

Alexandre


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## jpeter (Jan 29, 2012)

Jeremy_BP  said:
			
		

> Looking really nice. I can't wait to hear it run.
> Also, I noticed your drawing textbook in the background. I use the same one!



Yeah, that book's been around for a while.


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## jpeter (Jan 30, 2012)

Spent time today in the shop. Finished the front and rear motor mounts. Raised the front up 1/8 inch higher than the back. Going to level the carbs, 2 carbs I think. Outta look nice that way, don't you think.





Regarding the book comment, this photo includes another one of my favorites, Technical Drawing by Giesecke, Mitchell and Sepncer. Its been around a while but I still refer to it. Maybe I'm showing my age, eh.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 30, 2012)

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Raised the front up 1/8 inch higher than the back. Going to level the carbs, 2 I think. Outta look nice that way, don't you think.



That thing would look good upside down.


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## jpeter (Feb 10, 2012)

I've been working on the intake manifold. Here's a short video of the mill running. (These are videos. You need to click on them to play)




Well the mill ran until this piece came out.



Next I made a cover for the tunnel. I don't yet know where I'm putting the carbs so I spotted them but didn't drill for them. The engines setting in its stand is 1/8 inch higher in the front so I beveled the top of the tunnel cover cover to level the carburetors. 
I screwed on the tunnel cover. I hope you like my music. I'm gonna have to learn to hold my ipad horiontal too when videoing.


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## jpeter (Feb 19, 2012)

I needed 16 valve guides. I've standardized on 1/8 inch valve stems but GB in recent posts suggested 3/32 inch stems for engines of the size I'm making is a better choice so that's what I've settled on here. My standard procedure was to turn the outside of the guide and then carefully spot drill the center and carefully drill and ream for the stem. I have a seat cutter. The process involved pressing in the guide then using the guided seat cutter to cut the seat in the head. Well, seating the valves has always been a tedious process. I was worried about how effective a seat cutter guiding on a pin so small, 3/32, would work. My plan was to try to make valves guides that had the stem hole and perimeter dead nuts concentric, then guide the seat cutter on the reamed hole in the head. Is that going to work? We'll see. 

I checked some previously made guides for runout only to find most had at least 0.010. I needed a lot better. Here's a short video showing me checking a valve guide for runout. This ones about 0.003 out. It's not bad but not good enough.


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## jpeter (Feb 19, 2012)

I changed the process. First I cut the stock to length, next I spot drilled and drilled the hole, then reamed the hole to final size. I then turned a steel tapered mandrel on to which I mounted the blanked out guide.






I mounted the blank on the mandrel and turned it to about 0.005 oversized.


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## jpeter (Feb 19, 2012)

I found when they came off the steel mandrel they were still not concentric thus the reason for turning them oversized. Next, I mounted them on a brass mandrel and turned them to final sized. 






They came out quite concentric. Here's a video of a testing of a typical guide.





I think they'll work.

As an aside, here's a picture of my collet storage device. Obviously it's a 5 gallon plastic bucket that's been drilled full of holes with a hole saw.






The days in the shop I've learned something are good days.


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## gbritnell (Feb 19, 2012)

Jim, your engine is coming along great. It's hard to believe that your were getting that much runout with your first machining operation on the guides. With a center drilled hole almost to the diameter of your following drill it should have been pretty darn close. I'm glad at least mounting them on a mandrel solved the problem.
George


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## jpeter (Feb 19, 2012)

Yeah, I was surprised too. I never really checked them cuz I thought they'd have been a lot closer. I thought I could tell by the vibration/wobble when the drill was running off center. Not so I guess.


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## jpeter (Oct 31, 2012)

It's fall and time to get back to the shop. By looking at the date on the last entry I've not worked on the v8 since February. Well here we go. I needed some rods so I made a few yesterday. Here's what I ended up with. BTW, 2-56 screws.

Got a piston in the picture too. Finished that some time ago but have yet to turn it to final dia./length and cut the ring grooves so its a ways from being done. Notice though how I pocketed the inside.


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## jpeter (Nov 12, 2012)

Made some rings. Gonna take a few, 2 compression and 1 oil ring for each cylinder plus some spares. Need to clieve and heat treat'em. Some oil rings are yet to be turned. Made from cast iron. Wish me luck.


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## jpeter (Nov 12, 2012)

Steve, going to the meeting Wed?


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## AssassinXCV (Nov 12, 2012)

jpeter said:


> Notice the 5 centerbores in the end. The hidden end has similar centerbores.





jpeter said:


> Its time to mount it in the lathe. I first placed a piece of bar in the chuck and turned a live center. I have a live center that fits in the spindle taper but I like the chuck idea cuz I think its more accurate, less likely to wobble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I haven't been following this build, but will sure enough browse through the rest of the excellent progress achieved with this engine.

Curious to know how you were able to form the 5 centerbores on _both_ ends of the crankshaft. How did you align it such to have the paired centerbores opposite of one another yet parallel along the axis?

Ian


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## jpeter (Nov 13, 2012)

"Curious to know how you were able to form the 5 centerbores on _both_ ends of the crankshaft. How did you align it such to have the paired centerbores opposite of one another yet parallel along the axis?"
 Thanks for the question. Answer is that within reason they don't need to be aligned cuz any misalignment gets turned out. To get them close though I first clamped  the bar on the mill table and milled a flat on each end of the bar. I then stood the bar in the mill vise with the flat against the solid jaw, dialed in the center and center drilled the spots, flipped the bar end for end and did it again. Yeah, the bar was sticking up 6 inches.


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## stevehuckss396 (Nov 13, 2012)

jpeter said:


> Steve, going to the meeting Wed?


 

Yes I plan to be there. Nothing to show but I hope to have the garage cleaned up and get back to biz real soon.


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## AssassinXCV (Nov 16, 2012)

jpeter said:


> "Curious to know how you were able to form the 5 centerbores on _both_ ends of the crankshaft. How did you align it such to have the paired centerbores opposite of one another yet parallel along the axis?"
> Thanks for the question. Answer is that _*within reason they don't need to be aligned cuz any misalignment gets turned out*_. To get them close though I first clamped  the bar on the mill table and milled a flat on each end of the bar. *I then stood the bar in the mill vise with the flat against the solid jaw*, dialed in the center and center drilled the spots, flipped the bar end for end and did it again. Yeah, the bar was sticking up 6 inches.



Not sure how that would be ok. Wouldn't the crankpins be slightly off then? Wouldn't that then cause the pistons to be in the incorrect position in relation to each other? or is there a decent tolerance for engines?

Wow, that really does sound effective. Having that flat spot would prevent it from rotating out of position when flipping it end over end. Ingenious!


Ian


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## jpeter (Nov 16, 2012)

AssassinXCV said:


> Not sure how that would be ok. Wouldn't the crankpins be slightly off then? Wouldn't that then cause the pistons to be in the incorrect position in relation to each other? or is there a decent tolerance for engines?
> 
> Wow, that really does sound effective. Having that flat spot would prevent it from rotating out of position when flipping it end over end. Ingenious!


 
Keep in mind, once centered between two center spots any throw pins turned will be on that centerline. The throw plates are slightly off but they get faced in the same operation so that brings them back on. I like to  finish the mains last  because I find having the 5 mains lined up is critical so any previous minor bending or warping gets turned out as a final operaton. Slight misalignments of the throws can be tolerated. 
There's been lots of discussions on how to make mult-cylinder cranks. Its a tough project and lots of methods have been suggested. My method for sure  is not the only workable solution but I will say if done carefully it gets the job done. For me the biggest advantage is using milling to remove most of the excess metal. I've tried lathing the whole thing. That's an exercise in frustration, at least for me. I've tried building up cranks from side plates and silver solder too. I've got single cylinder engines running that way. But with multi's,it's too tough for me to get the mains straight cuz the heat warps everything.

I'm open to other opinions. I'd be fun to hear other's experiences.


----------



## jpeter (Nov 17, 2012)

I've got to split the rings before heat treat. Clieving compression rings is easy but I'm bewildered about slitting the oil rings. Seems the oil rings don't clieve to neatly. Any suggestions?


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Nov 17, 2012)

jpeter said:


> I've got to split the rings before heat treat. Clieving compression rings is easy but I'm bewildered about slitting the oil rings. Seems the oil rings don't clieve to neatly. Any suggestions?


 

KBC tool has slitting/slotting saw blades as thin as .008 if you want to try to cut one


----------



## jpeter (Dec 20, 2012)

Sorry for the delay. Been busy. 
Got back to the rings. Decided to turn the oil rings and cleive them first then fixture them up to reduce the center.


----------



## jpeter (Dec 20, 2012)

Here's a pick of me drilling the oil holes. I found a #60 drill was hard to keep in the center of the groove so I ground the shank end into a spade bit, gripped it close to the chuck. it worked well.


----------



## jpeter (Dec 20, 2012)

Doing the heat treat. The thickness of the plate is important, about 1/8 inch. Turn the steel slightly dull red, remove the torch and let the ring cool for a minute or so. Getting it too hot is bad for warpage. To size the gap I grind it with a Dremel disc. I've tried filing them but end up too often breaking them. Place the tool in a vise, open the ring so the disc is in the gap and touch it to the wheel. Works well.


----------



## jpeter (Dec 20, 2012)

Ahh, found the switch to editor mode. So here's a cylinder. Got the o-ring groove and o-ring in place. I used extra soft o-rings from McMaster-Carr. The plan is to seal the water jacket from the crankcase. Haven't yet tested it for leaks. I grease them up with Vaseline and slide the sleeve in. Seems to work.








The cut in the block upper right of the right sleeve is where the water passes up into the head. The head has a hole drilled full length taking the water back to the front of the head then into the intake manifold. The next post will show the intake in place with the goose neck screwed on.


----------



## jpeter (Dec 20, 2012)

Here's a pic showing the way the intake mates up with the heads. Notice the plug in the lower right end of the head. The water passage is blocked off by that plug. Water turns just inside the end of the head and routes up through the manifold and out the goose neck. The goose neck pipe was machined in two halves then glued together with J&B weld, which was then glued to the base flange. The pipe extends into the flange all the way to the manifold. The pipe id is 3/16 inch. The left head has the same passage. The flange screws are 2-56.


----------



## jpeter (Dec 20, 2012)

This this is a picture of the gear cover/water pump base. The hole in the center is the water intake into the pump. The left and right holes are pump outlets directly to the block. 




Here the pump is mounted. Hope it works. I'm worried about my shaft seal. Couldn't afford a seal for an 1/8 inch shaft so I drilled a length of teflon rod for a seal. We'll see.


----------



## jpeter (Dec 20, 2012)

I like this picture. Its a recent shot of the bottom end. It shows the bearing shells and the shaft tunnel. Look in the tunnel and you can see where the tappets will be contacting the cam. I used a ball end mill to mill the pockets for the crank. To save time I used a rather large scallop height. A finer surface would make for better pictures. I should have cleaned it for the picture. Its covered with Vaseline from sliding in the sleeves. Never the less, I like it.


----------



## agmachado (Dec 20, 2012)

Hi,

Very nice your progress...

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## smartrobert (Dec 21, 2012)

It's unbelievable. Thanks.

Robert


----------



## jpeter (Dec 26, 2012)

I needed to test the water pump and check for leaks. Had no leaks in the block but did where the intake attaches to the heads. Working to seal that now. Here's a video of the pump pumping. I think its pumping well and the seal's not leaking.


----------



## jpeter (Dec 29, 2012)

Well, ran the pump a couple of hours and everything is sealed. The block was leaking. Mistakenly I had installed an early version of a head gasket which contained a design error. The pump seal also leaked and needed a redesign. Originally I was relying on a Delrin sleeve to seal the shaft. That didn't work. I redesigned the sleeve to incorporate a flange which mated with the back of the impeller. I kept the joint tight with spring pressure from a short piece of 1/8" silicone tubing. I originally intented to use a bellville washer for this service but I didn't have one and the tubing was laying there. I tried it. It worked. No leaks now. Here's a photo of the drawing of the pump so you can see the layout. Looks like I failed to label the ball bearing in the front of the housing. Oh well. BTW, the bearing pocked isn't as deep as the drawing shows.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 29, 2012)

Nice work Jim!


----------



## jpeter (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm making plans for the electronic ignition. Most of my engines use an automotive coil but for thisone I want something smaller. I've seen pictures of modified weed wacker coils which looks to me like a primary winding has been added by applying some windings around the exposed core. Anybody know anything about doing this,like the number of turns, wire gage and voltage to apply to this mash up. Sure looks like a solution if its doable.


----------



## canadianhorsepower (Jan 2, 2013)

jpeter said:


> I'm making plans for the electronic ignition. Most of my engines use an automotive coil but for thisone I want something smaller. I've seen pictures of modified weed wacker coils which looks to me like a primary winding has been added by applying some windings around the exposed core. Anybody know anything about doing this,like the number of turns, wire gage and voltage to apply to this mash up. Sure looks like a solution if its doable.


I think you will love this link,all you can think of and more
http://www.cncengines.com/ic.html

cheers


----------



## gbritnell (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi Jim,
This is the distributor on my 302 engine. It has a cap that I originally go from Bruce Satra but now are being sold by S&S. It has a Hall trigger type ignition and you can see by the picture my Hall is mounted on the outside of the distributor body. I use a couple of different ignitions for it, one is a Jerry Howell type and the other is from S&S. They both work fine. 
gbritnell


----------



## jpeter (Jan 2, 2013)

Nice looking distributor George. I've got the electronics developed. I like your idea of putting the hall effect sensor outboard. I've generally mounted mine inside the distributor thus been troubled overheating it. I've gotten by by using sensors designed to take higher ambient heat. Been using my circuit for other engines but they all involve using a large automotive coil. What I want to do is find a physically smaller coil. I found a link for an aftermarket motorcycle coil I think I'm gonna try. Cost is about $12 plus shipping. I did a search in the forum for ignition coils and this link came up. It looks good. Here's a picture of my distributor. All the parts were machined by me. The design has been working for a couple of years on a v8. I was going to say the one in the avatar but I see its not in the avatar. I wonder where it went.


----------



## jpeter (Jan 5, 2013)

Press in some seals. Front seal is in the timing gear cover. The rear seal is pressed in a special flanged ring which bolts on to the rear of the engine with 4  2-56 cap screws. Here's a couple of pictures.
Front seal installed:




Rear seal installed:




Need a rear cam tunnel cover. I guess I'll do that next. Looks too like I need to reset the date on my camera.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 5, 2013)

Looks great!  I'm jelous. Can't seem to get any shop time.


----------



## J. Tranter (Jan 5, 2013)

What did you use for the seals or where did you get them please?


----------



## jpeter (Jan 5, 2013)

Seals came from McMaster Carr. Search for seals. The double spring and single spring ones. Rear is 0.5x1, front is 0.375x0.75. 
Thanks for asking.
 Hey Steve, progress is slow but recently steady. Shop time gets tough for me in the summer.


----------



## jpeter (May 10, 2013)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnWk2udR96k[/ame]
I've been away from the Forum for a while. I have made some progress. Here's a video of the first run. It needs some tweaking but it's showing some possibilities.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (May 10, 2013)

looks like a science experiment.    great job bud.


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## jpeter (May 10, 2013)

Yeah, needs a lot of clean-up. Had it looking somewhat nice for the names show but hadn't yet run it enough. Got no splashers on the rod caps yet so I've been running it on pre-mix. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow. Won't rev well yet either. Got some trouble in the distributor cap too cuz a cylinder or two doesn't fire dependably. I can see the spark through the plug caps and often cylinder 7 will just not fire. In the video you can see a puff of smoke from time to time when it misfires. Idles really slow though and starts well. I like that. Overheats after 7 minutes, on radiator too. I'm hoping breaking in will cure that quirk.


----------



## jpeter (May 13, 2013)

Well, here it is again. I was running it on premix but now dippers have been added to the rod caps, oil has been added to the crankcase, the headers have been bolted on, fuel is straight camp fuel. I've run about 10 tanks through it, each taking about 6 minutes. It doesn't smoke and I haven't yet had to add oil (10-40). I placed some aluminum sheets in the water tank to aid cooling and run a small fan too. Its getting better all the time. One nice feature of straight fuel is I can now breath and see the other side of the shop. I empty a full 6 minute tank without over heating but a quick refuel and restart will heat it over the limit. The radiator is built but it's kinda fragile so I'm saving it during break-in. It cools about like the pop can. I may need a larger one.
You ever have this trouble: I can't seem to work on it cuz I'm always running it.
Check out the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKvdJIRc6AQ&feature=youtu.be


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## Maxine (May 13, 2013)

Nice job!  It sounds great.


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## stevehuckss396 (May 13, 2013)

Awesome Jim!  Bring it to the next meeting or better yet, the Maker Faire.


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## jpeter (May 13, 2013)

Thanks guys, Steve, you have any overheating issues with the Demon?


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## jwcnc1911 (May 13, 2013)

Man that's fantastic!  It's idling like a Chevy 396!


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## stevehuckss396 (May 14, 2013)

jpeter said:


> Thanks guys, Steve, you have any overheating issues with the Demon?






Yes I do. I just have that small radiator so it heats up real fast. I think if I dod the same thing you do with the can I could get about the same time as you. ^ minutes is pretty darn good in my book.


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## stevehuckss396 (May 14, 2013)

couldn't edit. This is what i meant

Yes I do. I just have that small radiator so it heats up real fast. I think if I did the same thing you do with the can I could get about the same time as you. 6 minutes is pretty darn good in my book.


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## jpeter (May 14, 2013)

My hope was to be able to idle it forever. Not happening yet. Some builders at the shows have huge radiators, way to big for scale (heater cores maybe). Your Demon radiator looks really appropriately sized for scale. I thought mine was somewhat large but not too bad but I'm leaning towards making it bigger. I think thicker wouldn't too seriously hurt the scale looks . I'm also thinking I'd like to find a way to make really thin aluminum fins and lots of them like a commercial radiator, with aluminum tubes too. Chime in folks and tell me how to do it.


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## Art K (May 14, 2013)

Hey guys
Correct me if I'm wrong but those things have virtually no cooling in the head where the heat is produced so 6-7 minutes is quite good.
Art


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## jpeter (May 14, 2013)

Not so Art. My heads have a 5/32 water passage running lengthwise full length. Water enters the heads from the back of the block then exits through the intake manifold to the radiator.


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## enfieldbullet (May 15, 2013)

the aluminum tubes radiator with thins can be done.

you can solder the thins on. would take some time, but then again everything in this hobby does.

perhaps beer cans for thins?

btw, nice engine! i love it.


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## Swifty (May 15, 2013)

The scale radiator would look better with the engine, is it possible to have a larger radiator on the ground that can be plugged in for longer runs ?

Paul.


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## Art K (May 15, 2013)

Hi,
Yes .156 is some coolant passage but without a multi part head with a pocket over the combustion chamber you don't have anything near the scale coolant surface area. Yea Yea I know lots of big words. Probably a year ago Jan. we were in Akron, PA visiting the in-laws and I went to Cabin Fever. A guy I got chatting with had built Ron's Offy. I asked him why I never heard them run more than a minute or two. He says see this radiator hose, yea, when I see bubbles in the hose its starting to overheat. Yes it has cooling but not enough, made perfect sense when he said it but hadn't occurred to me beforehand. You probably get 80% of your cooling from the block.
I don't know what you used for a temp. gauge but I like it, another thing I wouldn't have thought of. you knew the exact temp and how long it took to reach. My next engine will be water cooled so I will keep that in mind.
Art


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## gbritnell (May 15, 2013)

Hi Jim,
As you are finding out these little engines make much more heat than you would think. The only way to cool them is to add more water and cooling surface. The only way to do that is to use an oversized radiator. As we have talked about many times there are just some things you can't scale down and one of them happens to be the cooling. When I designed my engines I wanted to have a somewhat scale radiator just like you but soon found that it won't happen. The only thing I could say would be to use the small rad in front of the engine and put a larger one in a base under the engine so it would be somewhat hidden. The next issue is getting enough air through whatever type of rad you use. The fans are also scaled so they don't move enough air. The only cure for this is to make an oversized fan and overdrive it so that it will move more air, and shroud the fan.


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## smpstech (May 16, 2013)

http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-mcr120-quiet-radiator.html

These are used in watercooled computer setups. They are a bit large (this one is 5" x 6.2" according to the website,) but would probably provide ample cooling to allow the engine to idle for quite a while. I'm not sure how the positioning of the barbs would effect you. They are both at the top, as is almost all computer water cooling radiators, so you may have a problem feeding the pump.  

If you buy into the idea of electric fans, the radiator already has holes setup to mount a standard 120mm fan such as:

http://www.xoxide.com/yate-loon-highspeed-120.html


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## stevehuckss396 (May 16, 2013)

jpeter said:


> My hope was to be able to idle it forever. Not happening yet. Some builders at the shows have huge radiators, way to big for scale (heater cores maybe). Your Demon radiator looks really appropriately sized for scale. I thought mine was somewhat large but not too bad but I'm leaning towards making it bigger. I think thicker wouldn't too seriously hurt the scale looks . I'm also thinking I'd like to find a way to make really thin aluminum fins and lots of them like a commercial radiator, with aluminum tubes too. Chime in folks and tell me how to do it.





Well!!

If you build a box under your engine like mine you could plum your cooling thru the engine and a small radiator. Then have it go into the box where there are tons of tubes, fins, and fans. Model engine builder mag has an article about building small radiators using real radiators and cutting them up into desireable size pieces and fitting new tanks. I could fit 3 rows of radiator fin with computer fans between them if I wanted.


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## johnny1320 (May 16, 2013)

First I have to say I am very impressed with the work on this sight, as for cooling how about using a heat exchanger with dry ice or regular ice for that matter. It could be plumbed on the inlet side of the engine.


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## jpeter (May 17, 2013)

You can see by the picture I've temporarily added the radiator. I used a small fan too to move air through the radiator. I ran it for 15 minutes with the temperature stable about 85 degrees C. I thought the idle was a little fast  then so I slowed it down some and not long after started making steam. Idle is important to me so maybe I'll try increasing the pump speed some. A little bigger pulley on the crank should do it. Hey, 15 minutes is a great improvement from where I started. (6 min.) Progress comes for me at least in small steps.
 I'm looking for opinions.


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## Art K (May 17, 2013)

Hi Jim,
I'm glad to see that you got it to run for 15 minutes at a stable temp, maybe I was wrong about not having enough cooling area in the head. I had an uh hu moment of agreement when you said try speeding up the pump a bit. Excellent build. What are you using for a thermostat? that is a great idea.
Art


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## metalmad (May 17, 2013)

Hi Jim
Inspirational Video on the V8
Looking at your coil the positve and negitve  seem to be connected, is this a opitical illusion ?
Im afraid I dont know a lot about ignition systems and always have trouble remembering how I did it last time :fan:
Pete


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## jpeter (May 17, 2013)

Regarding the thermostat question: I've got none. I've got a thermometer though. Its an old school glass Celsius job. The bulb will just slip down the fill hole in the radiator. 
Regarding the ignition question: The wires are not joined, I used a piece of silicon zip cord from the electronics unit to the coil. You know how zip cord wires run parallel to each other. In the picture they looked joined but they just come together at the back of the coil. The hall effect sensor is in the distributor. Notice the radio-control aileron extension wire from the back of the engine to the ignition electronics. The board is hanging off the coil peeking out on the left side of the picture. The green wire is there just to hold the control wire away from the exhaust header.
 BTW, for you using hall effect sensors I found an application sheet showing how to bullet proof hall effect sensors in ignition setups. It works. I've had sparks flying off everything and this ignition still works. I'm still using the first hall effect sensor I started with. I've got a basket full of dead hall sensors from previous ignition board setups.


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## metalmad (May 17, 2013)

Hi Jim
I am thinking Hall effect at the moment but as you may have guessed dont know much about it :fan:
Would love a link to that aplication sheet 
Thanks Pete


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## jpeter (May 18, 2013)

Interested in hardening a hall effect sensor, check out the picture. It works.


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## jpeter (Jun 14, 2013)

Bad day in Jim's shop. I'm not sure if it's totaled but close.
It got running really poorly so I ran a compression test and found the front 2 cylinders to have about 40psi while the back 2 came up to 75psi or so. Middle cylinders all tested somewhere in the middle. Curious to find the cause of the deviation I removed a head and found the front pistons to have 1/8 inch less stroke than 7 and 8. That's when I removed the pan to discover disaster. Something went bad wrong with the oil system.

I think I need a beer. Ouch!

 Check out the crank throws. They all look about the same.



Rods all look like this.


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## Lakc (Jun 14, 2013)

Looks like a little bit of work to do there, what were the rods made out of?


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## stevehuckss396 (Jun 14, 2013)

That sucks!


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## metalmad (Jun 14, 2013)

Bad Luck Jeff
Looks like a complete lubrication brakedown.
Hope it does not take too long to get her running again.
Pete


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## jpeter (Jun 14, 2013)

Lakc said:


> Looks like a little bit of work to do there, what were the rods made out of?


 
Aluminum. 
Think maybe the sleeves, pistons and rings are ok. 

I got an earlier v8 I've been running for a long while, 5 gallons of fuel or more. It's built the same way and running nicely. Always ran it though on premix. On this one I depended on the splash system. Gotta rethink my that. Pretty convinced my dipstick was giving false readings. Foolproof as it is I think oil was getting up in the tube and showing oil when there was none. It went south pretty quickly. Read oil in the pan up to the mark but I disassembled it carefully to see what was really in it and the actual amount was pretty low, aluminum mud mostly.


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## jpeter (Jun 14, 2013)

stevehuckss396 said:


> That sucks!


 
You betcha.:wall:


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## Lakc (Jun 14, 2013)

Usually the rods are 70 series aluminum. I asked because it looked like the wear I had seen on some mushy aluminum I used once. 
If the crankpins lived that skinny then clean them up and modify the print for the replacement rods. Nobody will know but us and we wont tell


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## jpeter (Jun 14, 2013)

Lakc said:


> Usually the rods are 70 series aluminum. I asked because it looked like the wear I had seen on some mushy aluminum I used once.
> If the crankpins lived that skinny then clean them up and modify the print for the replacement rods. Nobody will know but us and we wont tell


 
Good idea. Rods were from plate I picked up at the scrap yard. I don't really know the analyses.  I outta pick up some better material for the second run.


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## smpstech (Jun 14, 2013)

Were there any bearings on those big ends? I would think some bronze oilite bearings might help prevent any disasters like this from happening in the future.


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## jpeter (Jun 14, 2013)

smpstech said:


> Were there any bearings on those big ends? I would think some bronze oilite bearings might help prevent any disasters like this from happening in the future.


 
Bronze bushings and shells on the mains.


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## Spoonman (Jun 15, 2013)

Man what a shame it ate itself, still though Iam absolutely gobsmacked at the detail and work gone into it...... simply amazing work.


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## Art K (Jun 16, 2013)

Jim,
I was gone for the weekend and came back to find this:wall:, it sucks. I remember back when I was a kid it was me and my brothers responsibility to keep the cars full of oil. My dad would wonder why the oil light was going on around corners and up hills, checked the oil when he got home and it was 3 quarts low. Needless to say we filled it immediately no matter the time. Time for a new oil level gauge.
Art


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## John Rus (Jun 17, 2013)

Man that must hurt! I feel for ya.

Instead of a beer how about a cheap or free local car/air show, that will brighten your day. Just came from a local airshow and I can't tell you the aviation hangover I'm having (In a very good way.)!

Cheers,
John.


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## jpeter (Jul 1, 2013)

Fix'n up the old crank. Gonna have to make some non-standard bushings.


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## jpeter (Jul 1, 2013)

Got all bearing surfaces resurfaced. I have a Dumore toolpost grinder. I have a hard time finding wheels large enough to do a crank so I've resigned to using cut-off wheels designed for angle grinders. The one I used on this job is an A46 grit 1/16 inch wide. I dress it of course with a diamond dresser. I belt the grinder to spin it about 8,000 rpm. That might involve a #3 & 4 pulley but then again maybe not. Anyway, it's a slick way to get a nice finish on a wear surface.


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## jwcnc1911 (Jul 1, 2013)

WOW at that right there!  How much are you taking per pass?


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## Lakc (Jul 1, 2013)

Very pretty.

Finding the right size wheel is difficult, best possible size I have found is 7"x 1/4". Then I need to build the crankshaft grinder around that size. 

You seem to be doing excellent work with what you have, however.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 1, 2013)

jpeter said:


> Fix'n up the old crank. Gonna have to make some non-standard bushings.




It's your design so I think what you meant was you were going to have to use the other standard bearings.


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## jpeter (Jul 1, 2013)

jwcnc1911 said:


> WOW at that right there!  How much are you taking per pass?


For a rough pass I infeed about 0.005 pretty darn slow, maybe 10 seconds. I hand feed really slow too so it's time consuming. I sneak in a thou or two for the finish pass. I then make a pass or two with no infeed to let it "spark out."


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## jwcnc1911 (Jul 1, 2013)

jpeter said:


> For a rough pass I infeed about 0.005 pretty darn slow, maybe 10 seconds. I hand feed really slow too so it's time consuming. I sneak in a thou or two for the finish pass. I then make a pass or two with no infeed to let it "spark out."



That's a hefty cut on a grinder... but the wheel is very narrow.


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## jpeter (Jul 1, 2013)

Lakc said:


> Very pretty.
> 
> Finding the right size wheel is difficult, best possible size I have found is 7"x 1/4". Then I need to build the crankshaft grinder around that size.
> 
> You seem to be doing excellent work with what you have, however.


 
Doubt I have enough power and speed reduction for a wheel that large. At work I had a tool and cutter grinder that used 7 inch wheels. My spindle is 3/8 inch dia. I made a bushing 3/8 to 7/8 for the cut-off wheels. I think 4 inch wheels max it out.

0.005 is a heavy cut maybe too heavy but the machine seems to take it well enough and yeah, the wheel is thin. I'm sure that helps a lot too. Don't knock it till you try it.


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## Lakc (Jul 2, 2013)

I have never done any machine grinding so I am no authority. You seem to be getting along well with what you have. 

When I come up with a pair of chucks and a copy of machine tool reconditioning, I will be ready to put something on paper, but a dedicated crankshaft grinder could probably get some use in this area. 

What rpm are you spinning the crankshaft at?


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## jpeter (Jul 2, 2013)

Lakc said:


> ...What rpm are you spinning the crankshaft at?


 
I spin it slow as I can go, in reverse too. I have a Sheldon with variable speed drive. I think 150 rpm would be close. I misled you on the depth cuz my lathe cross feed reads in diameters. I really cut only 2.5 mill dp but reduce the diameter by 5 thou. That's quite a difference when grinding.


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## Art K (Jul 2, 2013)

Jim,
That sure looks better than the last photo of the crankshaft I saw, seems to me if .005 was all you had to reduce the diameter you came out lucky. Good work.
Art


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## Goldflash (Jul 3, 2013)

Had a look at your connecting rods. 
Maybe you should look at making connecting rods with a dipper as per the photo of a Kohler Industrial Engine Rod 
These are splash lubricated and the dipper flings the oil up into the upper crankcase 
Some dippers are drilled to direct oil onto the big end bearing


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## jpeter (Jul 3, 2013)

Art K said:


> Jim,
> That sure looks better than the last photo of the crankshaft I saw, seems to me if .005 was all you had to reduce the diameter you came out lucky. Good work.
> Art


  Nah, I went down to 9/32 from what was 5/16. Some earlier quote I said I was grinding 0.005 per pass. What I should have said was I reduced the diameter 0.005 per pass. I took lots of passes, more on some journals than others. Took the mains down from 7/16 to 13/32. The bushing in the rear main has flanges for thrust. The front main is a straight bushing and the 3 center ones are split. Got those 3 yet to do.


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## jpeter (Jul 3, 2013)

Goldflash said:


> Had a look at your connecting rods.
> Maybe you should look at making connecting rods with a dipper as per the photo of a Kohler Industrial Engine Rod
> These are splash lubricated and the dipper flings the oil up into the upper crankcase
> Some dippers are drilled to direct oil onto the big end bearing


 
No doubt the dipper works but in my case the oil pan's not deep enough. I've been thinking about remaking the oil pan. Currently it's like an automotive one with a deep reservoir on the rear. I'd like to stick with that design. Still thinking about that.

No doubt everyone knows this but me:
 I recently had to drill a 1/8 square hole an inch deep. EDM is such a project for me I hate to set up for it. In an emergency I can burn out taps and such but setting up is such a project. After walking in circles for a day or two a knowledgeable friend said use a wobble broach. I googled one to see what it was, made one from tool steel 3 inches long, hardened it and used it. I offset  the lathe tailstock 0.050 to create the wobble. Took a minute or so to square out a previously drilled pilot hole. Try it sometime. Interested? I'll gladly supply more details.


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## jpeter (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm wanting to make an oil pump. Gonna drive it off a gear off the cam, same gear from which I drive the distributor. Thought a gear pump would be the way to go but after looking at some designs it seems auto motors use what's commonly called a gerotor pump. Anybody ever make one of those? Can they be made accurately enough by a Sunday machinist to actually work? Just wondering.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 6, 2013)

jpeter said:


> I'm wanting to make an oil pump. Gonna drive it off a gear off the cam, same gear from which I drive the distributor. Thought a gear pump would be the way to go but after looking at some designs it seems auto motors use what's commonly called a gerotor pump. Anybody ever make one of those? Can they be made accurately enough by a Sunday machinist to actually work? Just wondering.



Just build a gear pump jimbo! Auto makers used them for years and they work well. Even high volume performance pumps are gear pumps.


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## Lakc (Jul 6, 2013)

jpeter said:


> I'm wanting to make an oil pump. Gonna drive it off a gear off the cam, same gear from which I drive the distributor. Thought a gear pump would be the way to go but after looking at some designs it seems auto motors use what's commonly called a gerotor pump. Anybody ever make one of those? Can they be made accurately enough by a Sunday machinist to actually work? Just wondering.



Gerotor pumps require internal gearcutting or making a broach. So I guess it depends on which Sunday machinist you are. 
Regular spur gears make an effective pump, and would be much easier. Not as much volume to work with, but it will move some oil.





Dont do it like I did unless you have a surface grinder and a way to accurately bore holes to perfect depth's.


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## mu38&Bg# (Jul 6, 2013)

In small sizes a gear pump still flows a lot of oil. I wanted to add a sump oil system to an RC four stroke engine and did the math on volume flow, and even with some very small gears the volume was several times what I wanted. i haven't looked closely at gerotor design, but with CNC I think it would be practical to make in the home shop. At the size you're talking about it may not be easy.

I don't remember the engine being designed for pressure oiling. What will you do with the oil, jets?

Greg


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## jpeter (Jul 6, 2013)

dieselpilot said:


> In small sizes a gear pump still flows a lot of oil. I wanted to add a sump oil system to an RC four stroke engine and did the math on volume flow, and even with some very small gears the volume was several times what I wanted. i haven't looked closely at gerotor design, but with CNC I think it would be practical to make in the home shop. At the size you're talking about it may not be easy.
> 
> I don't remember the engine being designed for pressure oiling. What will you do with the oil, jets?
> 
> Greg


 I've had tougher projects. I'm still thinking about it. I think I can do it.


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## Lakc (Jul 6, 2013)

Just remember that work dont come for free. All that oil pumping will add drag to the engine.


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## CNC-Joe (Jul 6, 2013)

AWESOME WORK, Jim !!!

Very innovative machining methods, too!

Sure glad to be part of the same metalworking group as you, so I can drool over your engines (( If I can yank them out of Steve Huck's hands, that is ))


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## jpeter (Jul 13, 2013)

CNC-Joe said:


> AWESOME WORK, Jim !!!
> 
> Very innovative machining methods, too!
> 
> Sure glad to be part of the same metalworking group as you, so I can drool over your engines (( If I can yank them out of Steve Huck's hands, that is ))


 
Thanks, wondered who you were. Now I know.


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## jpeter (Jul 13, 2013)

Lakc said:


> Gerotor pumps require internal gearcutting or making a broach. So I guess it depends on which Sunday machinist you are.
> Regular spur gears make an effective pump, and would be much easier. Not as much volume to work with, but it will move some oil.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Great picture. That helps a lot. That's pretty much like what I'm going to do.


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## Lakc (Jul 13, 2013)

jpeter said:


> Great picture. That helps a lot. That's pretty much like what I'm going to do.


Its pretty simple in principle, and a good exercise in practice, because any excess in clearance, or inaccuracy in pitch circle, and it just plain wont work.


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## jpeter (Jul 28, 2013)

Had a bad day at the Detroit Maker Faire. The V8 took a dump in the first 5 sec run.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 28, 2013)

Holy smokes theres no wonder why you couldn't turn it over. It didn't look that bad when I saw it. Guess I should have looked a little closer.


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## starnovice (Jul 28, 2013)

Sorry for you loss, Jim.  Why does it always have to happen in public???


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## Lakc (Jul 28, 2013)

That fix should involve far less work then the last one. Like my son in law, running through a puddle (lake!) on outer drive in the torrential rainstorms two weeks ago, you pretty much only bend rods by hydrostatic lock. Too much fuel or a coolant leak? 
At least you only have to fix one rod, I get to put a whole engine in a Stratus.


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## jpeter (Jul 29, 2013)

Lakc said:


> That fix should involve far less work then the last one. Like my son in law, running through a puddle (lake!) on outer drive in the torrential rainstorms two weeks ago, you pretty much only bend rods by hydrostatic lock. Too much fuel or a coolant leak?
> At least you only have to fix one rod, I get to put a whole engine in a Stratus.


Pretty convinced the cap came off. Then when the crank came back around it smacked the rod. Could have broke the cylinder. Glad the flywheel came loose. Got lucky. Not gonna be too hard to fix. Not real happy with the play in all the rods. Might just make all new ones. First time the v8's been open since built 3 years ago. Should have inspected it a time or two.


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## jpeter (Nov 20, 2013)

Well cool weather's here so I got back into the shop for the New Victory. Ground the crank, made new rods, redesigned the cam and recut it. I need to show videos and photos of how that was done. Developed a pretty slick method, for me at least, of cnc'n the cam. Finally got it running. Had lots of trouble with the ignition system but seem to have them solved. Anyway, here's a video of a good run. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67qPi0Yfpxo[/ame]

By noting the dipstick popping up and down I think I need more venting in the crankcase. Maybe what I really need is less blow-by. I liked when the mounting screw pulled out causing it to jump around a little. Don't you think it gave the video some life? Comments appreciated.


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## Art K (Nov 20, 2013)

Jim,
I have to admit the gear pump looks much easier, it's good to see it in running condition again.
Greg can you expound a bit on the formulas for figuring volume of flow for gear pumps?
Art


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## jpeter (Nov 22, 2013)

I was planning to go with the gear pump but after contemplating all the plumbing and pump drive mechanism needed  the splash system looked quicker. Found though putting dippers on v8 rods more challenging than expected. Keep in mind the splash dippers on the caps of a v8 don't come straight down into the pan. I had to spend some time on the cad system developing the caps, interference and all to deal with you know.


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## jpeter (Nov 30, 2013)

It was running great until I loomed the ignition wires together. Must be getting lots of crossfire. Removed the loom, separated the wires and it returned to running well. I'm using 1/8 in. od test lead wire for ignition wire. It a little big too. If I could find smaller dia. wire, 22 gauge maybe, with a higher voltage rating 20kv maybe, I'd try it. Anyone know what's best for my purpose? My current plan is to make some cable spacers to keep the individual wires separated but would rather place them in a loom. Help!


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## stevehuckss396 (Nov 30, 2013)

Hello Jim!

I use a 10KV wire that is .094 diameter. I loom them without problems. Get it from S/S engineering at http://cncengines.com/ic.html

Scroll down almost to the bottom.


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## jpeter (Nov 30, 2013)

stevehuckss396 said:


> Hello Jim!
> 
> I use a 10KV wire that is .094 diameter. I loom them without problems. Get it from S/S engineering at http://cncengines.com/ic.html
> 
> Scroll down almost to the bottom.


 
 Thanks Steve, I'll check it out.


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## stevehuckss396 (Nov 30, 2013)

If you are in a hurry I have about 20 feet here in the garage. I will be in the garage all day tomorrow. You can take what you need and replace mine when your order shows up.


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## jpeter (Nov 30, 2013)

stevehuckss396 said:


> If you are in a hurry I have about 20 feet here in the garage. I will be in the garage all day tomorrow. You can take what you need and replace mine when your order shows up.



Crossfire might be more from induction than insulation so I'm not too sure changing the wires will help much. Hopefully, some readers will offer some incite.
Thanks though for the fine offer. If the drive wasn't so long I do it. More than wire though I'd like to see your shop. Anyway, I think that trip will have to wait. I've got lots yet to do so its not like I'm stopped. Like I need make a base, air cleaner, seal up some leaks, get the electronics in the base and make a gas tank. I used the carb from the Victory so I'm going to have to do something about a carburetor.
Interestingly, I improved the ignition lots by including a 20k resistor in the coil HT wire. Don't understand why it helps but it does. Anyway, if I don't bundle the sparkplug wires it'll idle at a tick and rev like a Demon, oops, race engine. If I do it'll idle like crap and won't rev at all. Doesn't smoke too bad but does some. Its smoking less as the run time builds. Running it in my shop though is killing me. Need to vent it somehow I guess. I'll have to add that to the list.
Thanks again for the offer.


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## jpeter (Apr 8, 2014)

Well, I've been away from the forum for a while.
 Got back to the v8 and think I've gone about as far with it as I'm going to. My first v8 I named Victory. This one I named Ultimate Victory because it tested me to the max. It runs really well. It'll idle all day and not heat up. As expected, the more it gets broken in the cooler it runs. (pretty typical). I've tried several home brewed carburetors and found none of them perform up to the level of the OS so I think my next project is going to be the development of my own carburetor just so I can say I designed one. I intend to display/run  the UV at NAMES in Detroit later this month. Hope to see some of you there. Be sure to mention you saw it on the forum. It's hard not to run it every day, you know how it is when they're new. Hope I don't blow a rod or something before the show. Thanks for following. Sorry for the gap.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li-jH8XNZFY[/ame]


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