# Motocycle engine design



## Mitchg07261995 (Feb 21, 2015)

After lots of research and dissapointment that vintage bike replicas can be purchased, but no one makes the old single cylinder engines from the early 1900's I have desired to design and build my own engine based on an engine design that I found, the engine I am basing mine off of was designed in 1906, it is 450cc and 3.5 hp, my engine will be 1 liter, have a 4" bore and a 5" stroke, I have designed a few of the components, a crankcase half, crank disk and the cylinder 
Here is what I have so far in the design process
http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg2_zps0438fa6f.jpg
http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg3_zps7ff91071.jpg
http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg4_zps6f1c483f.jpg


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## barnesrickw (Feb 22, 2015)

The Muskegon Motorcycle Club has some early 1900's bikes, and one of the members that I know of is a machinist.  If you would like a link and see if they can help, I will be happy to provide.


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## BronxFigs (Feb 22, 2015)

On the MadModder Forum/Project Logs, OKTomT builds a vintage, single and  twin-cylinder motorcycle/bike engine based on a 1906 design.  The build tutorials are very interesting, insightful, and loaded with links and information.  You may already be familiar with Tom's work, and designs, and it's a good place to start.

Also, somewhere on You-Tube, I've seen a scaled-up version of the "Hoglet" mounted onto a motor bike.  A quick search will show "Hoglet" engines built with a closed crankcase...just scale it, and build it with a single-cylinder.  Easier said than done, but it's an option.

Frank


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## Swifty (Feb 22, 2015)

Wow, that's going to be a big 1000cc single cylinder engine.

Paul.


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## Mitchg07261995 (Feb 22, 2015)

BronxFigs said:


> On the MadModder Forum/Project Logs, OKTomT builds a vintage, single and  twin-cylinder motorcycle/bike engine based on a 1906 design.  The build tutorials are very interesting, insightful, and loaded with links and information.  You may already be familiar with Tom's work, and designs, and it's a good place to start.
> 
> Also, somewhere on You-Tube, I've seen a scaled-up version of the "Hoglet" mounted onto a motor bike.  A quick search will show "Hoglet" engines built with a closed crankcase...just scale it, and build it with a single-cylinder.  Easier said than done, but it's an option.
> 
> Frank


 
That's the exact engine and bike I'm basing my design off of


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## Mitchg07261995 (Feb 22, 2015)

barnesrickw said:


> The Muskegon Motorcycle Club has some early 1900's bikes, and one of the members that I know of is a machinist.  If you would like a link and see if they can help, I will be happy to provide.



A link would be awesome  I have a lathe at home that I can use to make some of the smaller parts like the piston, valves and bushings but I need to find someone who I can pay to make the larger parts because my lathe is way to small for them


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## charlesfitton (Feb 22, 2015)

I was lucky to get a set of the first 12 editions of Model Engineer magazine. They cover the build details of two different engines...


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## BronxFigs (Feb 22, 2015)

Mitchg....et al.

There is a gent named Elden DuRand who makes gas engines from scrap steel, weldments, borrowed parts, etc.....and, plenty of skill.  Not exactly motorcycle engines, but some of the machining techniques that he uses for his engine builds can be employed when fabricating _any_ engines, be they, motorcycle, stationary, etc.

Check out: "ELDEN'S ENGINES"  ..... I wish he was my neighbor!!!!


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## velocette (Feb 22, 2015)

Hi
Had a quick look at the photo's and what jumped out was the crank arrangement.
With this setup and with no additional flywheel this would be completely out of balance.
A bit more research is required.
Just an observation on my part I am sure that other contributors to this forum can offer useful help to get this project up and running.
Can only add to the advice to look at  the "Mad Modder" posting.

Eric


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## TorontoBuilder (Feb 22, 2015)

Mitchg07261995 said:


> After lots of research and dissapointment that vintage bike replicas can be purchased, but no one makes the old single cylinder engines from the early 1900's I have desired to design and build my own engine based on an engine design that I found, the engine I am basing mine off of was designed in 1906, it is 450cc and 3.5 hp, my engine will be 1 liter, have a 4" bore and a 5" stroke, I have designed a few of the components, a crankcase half, crank disk and the cylinder
> Here is what I have so far in the design process
> http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg2_zps0438fa6f.jpg
> http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg3_zps7ff91071.jpg
> http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg4_zps6f1c483f.jpg



Thats great, I've wanted to have a vintage motorcycle for years and came to the conclusion I'd have to build my own and try to get it approved to ride on the road. I'd be very happy with 450cc.


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## Theclockworks (Feb 22, 2015)

I think you are getting a little carried away with the size of engine 1000cc single ? What bore and stroke are you thinking of ,I would say you would be saving yourself a lot of tears by sticking to say 500/600cc but that's just my humble opinion.


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## chrisinestes (Feb 22, 2015)

Mitchg07261995 said:


> After lots of research and dissapointment that vintage bike replicas can be purchased, but no one makes the old single cylinder engines from the early 1900's I have desired to design and build my own engine based on an engine design that I found, the engine I am basing mine off of was designed in 1906, it is 450cc and 3.5 hp, my engine will be 1 liter, have a 4" bore and a 5" stroke, I have designed a few of the components, a crankcase half, crank disk and the cylinder
> Here is what I have so far in the design process
> http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg2_zps0438fa6f.jpg
> http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg3_zps7ff91071.jpg
> http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y522/Mitchell_Geiger/imagejpg4_zps6f1c483f.jpg


 
When you get that done you'll have to ride that up to Estes Park and show it off.

Chris


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## Barnbikes (Feb 22, 2015)

I am the middle of designing a bicycle engine using a 1100cc VW Bug cylinder.

Will be watching.


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## barnesrickw (Feb 22, 2015)

The name of the machinist at the motorcycle club is Adam.  I forget his last name.  Here is a link, and a picture of one of their antique bikes. http://www.muskegonmotorcycleclub.com/
View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1424656575.908942.jpg


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## dodursley (Feb 16, 2016)

In the midst of browsing about hot bulb engine I found these posts, so this info may be useful, although a but dated.
Model Engineer published a series of articles on the construcion of  motorcycles in 1901 to 1904(volumes 4 to 8 ). There were reprints of  these issues in bound form in UK some 15 ? years ago.The motor bicycle  went on past my most recent one ( vol 8 ) but the motor tricycle is  complete. The volumes do appear on UK ebay occasionally.
a list of the index of automotive articles is attached (hopefully) which you may find useful 

View attachment ME vol 1-60 automotive.xls


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## 1dbweldor (Feb 20, 2016)

As far as the piston goes you might come out money ahead to contract the piston to another company. I used to take the 500 Yamaha singles to 748. The first few I would machine the piston from billet, worked pretty good but not quite what I was looking for. I sent prints to Venolia for a quote and ended up purchasing from then on out. They would make whatever you want for reasonable money. You can spend more time on other things more important and end up with a much better piston than what you can make. They make their parts with better material, more precise machining, and not to mention the heat treat is a lot better. That's what they do. Just something to consider. Good luck on your build.


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## Mitchg07261995 (Feb 21, 2016)

We'll a lot has happened since my last post. I was homeless for almost half of last year and moved to Minnesota in July, I got married and am currently working a crappy job until I find something at a factory or a local machine shop. 
Since last year, I've lost all my drawings but have downloaded a cad cam called onshape for my iPad mini, and have been redesigning my crankcase for the board track racer on there. I've still got a couple kinks to work out with the software so I can finish my drawing, but I will be posting my current progress in the design process and build on here. 

One awesome thing this cam allows for is you to choose your material for the part and it will tell you how much said part will weigh XD


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## Mitchg07261995 (Feb 21, 2016)

Here's what i have so far, 
Material for the crankcase will be 4130. 
I'm planning on producing 3-4 complete board track racers, one for me, one for my father in law, one to display and one to sell. I've got a cousin that will help me do the welding to produce the frames, I just need to find someone to help machine that parts. I might just have to look into, venolia, thanks for the suggestion 1dbweldor


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## Mitchg07261995 (Feb 21, 2016)

Mitchg07261995 said:


> Here's what i have so far,
> Material for the crankcase will be 4130.
> I'm planning on producing 3-4 complete board track racers, one for me, one for my father in law, one to display and one to sell. I've got a cousin that will help me do the welding to produce the frames, I just need to find someone to help machine that parts. I might just have to look into, venolia, thanks for the suggestion 1dbweldor


zx
Does anyone have a suggestion on where I can find some 1.625 steel tubing for the frame?


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 21, 2016)

1-5/8 tubing is a popular size for roll cage's. Maybe you can get some pieces if there is a race shop somewhere near you.


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## Chiptosser (Feb 21, 2016)

If you look for aircraft suppliers, FBO's, race shops. I know there are rally racers, in your area. 
You really don't need cromemoly for your frames,but if it is easier to find.
DOM, (drawn over mandrel) will have plenty of strength for your use.


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## napoleonb (Feb 21, 2016)

Perhaps you've already visited this website, if not you're in for a treat!
http://flashbackfab.com/excelsior-project-paul-brodie/


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## Chiptosser (Feb 22, 2016)

Are you sure that you want to make the crankcase, with 4130??


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## Goldflash (Feb 22, 2016)

You just have to watch this 
Home Built Engine in a Harley Hummer . Looks like a full size Hoglet Engine ( almost )    
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-708khmH3vY[/ame]


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## Mitchg07261995 (Feb 23, 2016)

I designed the crank disks the other night, the book mentions that they should weigh close to 24lbs for the pair, but with the given dimensions my cad software is telling me they will weigh 12-13lbs for the pair? 
I wonder if he just scaled the drawings for a hoglet to a larger size? 
Is there another material other than 4130 that you guys would suggest?


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## 1dbweldor (Feb 24, 2016)

The best places to buy tubing is Ryerson and Marmon Keystone. I've spent a small fortune at both through the years. Myself for a motorcycle frame I would use Chromoly 4130. Reason being stronger than DOM and not much more in price. I was always looking for performance and speed as well as handling, with that being said, the lighter weight would be your friend. The stronger material is easier to keep a clean look as well as a compact structure. On your frame design keep your tubing in compression as much as possible.
 The preferred material for the cases is aluminum. 6061 T651 would be a good start, and easily found. Another would be 2024 T6, this A/C grade and a little pricey but you could heat treat if needed.
 I hope this helps and good luck on your build.


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