# anyone interested in a radial team buid



## chrispare (Aug 15, 2011)

Wondering if there would be anyone interested in a 3 or 5 cylinder radial engine, was thinking maybe an air powered one.

Anyone interested??

chris


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## stevehuckss396 (Aug 15, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> Wondering if there would be anyone interested in a 3 or 5 cylinder radial engine, was thinking maybe an air powered one.
> 
> Anyone interested??
> 
> chris




What were you thinking? I did a team build that went real well (TB4) so I would be willing to do it again. Who's design would we be using?


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## maverick (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd be up for a team build. How about Chuck Fellows 3 cylinder radial? It's a good looking engine. 
I have easy access to material and some spare time. 

Regards,
Mike


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## chrispare (Aug 15, 2011)

wasnt really sure as to what radial I dont have any plans.
I Thought that if there was a set of plans floating around that it would be a nice challange for a team , and that is why i was thinking of a 3 or 5 cylinder to keep the parts list down a little.


is there a link to the (Chuck Fellows 3 cylinder radial) or pics ??

Any ideas as what ony to do (if enough interest)


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## maverick (Aug 16, 2011)

Chris,
Chuck has a thread on his engine in the finished projects section, but there are no drawings.
Plans are available for Rudy's radial 5. Do you want a compressed air engine or an I.C.?
Does anyone else have any interest or suggestions?


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## cfellows (Aug 16, 2011)

Just saw this thread. I'm in the process of revising the valve system on my radial. I'm getting ride of the push rods and overhead ball bearing valves. I'm replacing them with a rotary tube valve like I used on my 4 cylinder opposed. It will be much simpler and more reliable.

Chuck


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## maverick (Aug 17, 2011)

Chuck,
 Will the plans for the revised version be posted? I guess we're looking for options for a
 possible team build of a radial type.

 Mike


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## t_ottoboni (Aug 17, 2011)

I'd love to join a team build! But since I'm in Brazil I think it'll be a little difficult to participate. :-\
If you guys are still in need of someone to join, I'm here! ;D


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## cfellows (Aug 17, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> Chuck,
> Will the plans for the revised version be posted? I guess we're looking for options for a
> possible team build of a radial type.
> 
> Mike



I guess I'll see how it turns out before I commit to supplying any drawings.

Chuck


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## maverick (Aug 17, 2011)

Chuck,
 That sounds like the prudent thing to do. If this next team build chooses another engine 
 I'd like to build a copy of your 3 cyl. just for the way it sounds.

 Regards,
 Mike


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## chrispare (Aug 23, 2011)

i.c would be super cool but I would settel with air power if it was a 5 cyl.

Anyone have a blueprint of one they would like built?


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 23, 2011)

This link will get a complete set of plans for the five cylinder radial that I built and published plans for in "The Home Shop Machinist" magazine. There is also a video of it running on Youtube under the heading "Brians Radial Engine Running".-----Brian
http://www.mediafire.com/?uzhvza0ywmn
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuB7YPVqKC4[/ame]
And here is a link to the original build thread.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6305.0


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 27, 2011)

chuck the radial proposed is air powered . I think three cylinder would be plenty of challenge. And three people would be making cylinder piston sets. IMHO KISS is the by word for team builds. 
Tin


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## rleete (Aug 27, 2011)

How about Elmer's #11, as built by Metal Butcher? Here's his finished pics thread: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4364.0 

We wouldn't have to copy it exactly, but I really like his version of the cylinders and heads.


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## chrispare (Aug 27, 2011)

Ok I think that an air powered radial is going to be the choice, now it's which one?
I will take a good look at the elmers. 

So how many we got interested in this build?
As I think that may be a deciding factor on which radial would be chosen.


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## stevehuckss396 (Aug 27, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> Ok I think that an air powered radial is going to be the choice, now it's which one?
> I will take a good look at the elmers.
> 
> So how many we got interested in this build?
> As I think that may be a deciding factor on which radial would be chosen.



I think we should wait for chucks redesign but what ever you choose, I'm in!


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 27, 2011)

the way it has been done in the past
1) assemble a team 
2) elect a captain
3) vote on a plan
4)The captain breaks down the parts to workable pieces based on team size and plan set. 
5) Each member pick his or her parts.
6) parts are made
7) addresses are exchanged 
7) . parts mailed. 
or something like that
IIRC on TB 5 the captain volunteered himself and proposed a plan set the team formed around that. 
and probably nothing wrong with reversing steps 2 and 3. 
The goal is to have fun learn and build an engine. the espri di corp on team one was exemplary ten guys twelve engines. 
Tin


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## maverick (Aug 27, 2011)

I'd be happy to help on a 3 cylinder air powered radial TBD. I've got a few engines under my belt,
the latest being Jerry Howell's Miser. 

Regards,
Mike


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## Path (Aug 29, 2011)

*I also would like to be part of TB 6 (?). 


Pat H.*


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## maverick (Aug 29, 2011)

Looks like several are interested. Anybody want to drive the boat?


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## chrispare (Aug 29, 2011)

I can drive a boat, 
and will if needed


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## pcw (Aug 30, 2011)

i would like be in the teambuild. i have to say though i have only limited tools to make parts. im just a beginner in model engine building. i can make simple parts though, or supply round stock for crankshaft and such. so maybe a easier engine would be better, up to you all to decide. ask me anything bout what i could make.
Pascal


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## t_ottoboni (Aug 30, 2011)

I would like to join too, if possible! ;D


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## dalem9 (Aug 30, 2011)

I would like to join your build team if you will have me . Dale


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## maverick (Aug 30, 2011)

Any other ideas on what to build? Engines mentioned so far are Rudys radial 5 although a three cylinder 
seems favored, Elmers #11, Chuck Fellows radial ( no plans so far, but maybe if we beg). There is also a 
potty 3 cyl. in the downloads section. As these engines have considerably more parts then previous 
team builds, a few more team members may be necessary. Following Tin Falcons post, this may be slightly
ahead of sequence but is something to think about. 

Regards,
Mike


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## cfellows (Sep 1, 2011)

I've thought about this a bit and I think for a team build you would want drawings that are tried and true, especially for something as complicated as a radial. Keep in mind that I've only built the one engine and I kind of made it up as I went along. I'm not a draftsman and I would be making the drawings from the completed engine. While any drawings I provide might be OK for a single person building the engine, I would not recommend trying a team build from them.

Thx for the consideration...
Chuck


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## awJCKDup (Sep 1, 2011)

Chuck, if you do make the plans available, I for one would be interested, I really liked the original version with the push rods and all.
John


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## chrispare (Sep 2, 2011)

The potty 3cyl looks to be quite nice.
What do others think,suggest??


So so far we got... 

chrispare..ontario 
stevehuckss396.. MI USA
maverick.. ??
rleete..NY USA
aermotor8..??
path..??
dalem9..??
Plus.. pcw in the Netherlands, and T_ottoboni in Brazil 
joe d... montreal Ont.


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## joe d (Sep 2, 2011)

Hi

If you are short-handed and need another player I would be happy to join up! I've participated in three team build here,
one worked great, one took ages to get the parts done and out to the team (and I still haven't got that one running...)
and one the IC build that petered out... (I've got 16 mostly complete governor assy's for Kerzel hit&miss engines..
that could keep me building for a long time!). Being an eternal optimist, I'm ready to go again.

Cheers, Joe


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## Path (Sep 2, 2011)

*Chrispare,

I finally found the plans for the Potty Three Cylinder Radial, by Stewart Hart.

Looks good and there is one being built by TuxMan at 
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=14321.msg147433#msg147433
so we can follow along as we build. 

So I vote for this one. However, the others look good also. 

The plans are in Metric ... so do we convert? If so maybe we can find those plans
or I will consider converting (if there is a checker) in Solidworks.

Other considerations?

Pat H.*


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## maverick (Sep 2, 2011)

Pats observations are good. The potty 3 cyl. does look nice and the drawings are well done. With 9 people showing interest, it should break up the work nicely.


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## Steve_Withnell (Sep 2, 2011)

"Re: anyone interested in a radial team build"

Not until I get rid of the day job 

I'd be interested to know how the logistics work though...

I did start the design of a three cylinder radial 4 stroke glo motor, that's something else on the to do list! Mind you it is pretty ugly compared to some of the engines here...



Steve


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## maverick (Sep 2, 2011)

An interesting bit of information about the potty 3 cyl. According to the builders notes on the drawing, 
most of the metric dimensions given convert to imperial fraction sizes. This should simplify things a bit. 

Mike


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 2, 2011)

I think the best way to do this is to have someone convert all the parts and make new drawings. Alot of work but it could be done.

Is there something else out there already in imperial.

Elmers #11 is in imperial but would need some creative liberty to the cylinder builder to spiff the up some.


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 2, 2011)

I know this was mentioned before but one way of transposing (not converting) is make 1mm equal to 1/16 which effectively scales up a bit or equal 1/32 witch makes a smaller engine. the nice thing about this method is stock size comes out even. 
Just a thought. Someone would have to transpose hardware to get everyone on the same page. 
Tin


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 2, 2011)

I just looked at the roster and noticed that some are from Canada and possibly other parts of the world. The dimensions on the print may be native to some builders. The way I see it is the US builders can just suck it up and work in mm's for this one. Should'nt be a big deal because my measuring devices have a little button that changes to metric. I'm all in on the Potty.

Can I make the master and slave rods? How many units are we making?


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## chrispare (Sep 2, 2011)

Steve it looks like there would be 10 but that is not comfirmed so we need a show of NAMES (Im not sure of the format of team builds but do we build an extra one to donate for shows)

I dont have any problem of you doing the rods.
As I would like to do the bearing housing with bearings (I can source them out pretty cheap) If that is ok with everyone.

Also who are we appointing team captain on this one??

chris

Oh one more thing,, with the digital world now I myself can work in both metric and standard.


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## t_ottoboni (Sep 2, 2011)

Although we use metric in Brazil, I have no problem converting inches to mm and making parts as close as possible to inches dimmensions! 
What I think it is important is to decide one plan and stick with it, no matter if imperial or metric. Also I vote for Potty too! A very nice engine!


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 2, 2011)

Well Chris . . . . this was your idea so you should drive the bus here. PM Tin Falcon as he has done a few of these builds. He could tell you the best way to do this thing.


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## Path (Sep 2, 2011)

Chris....

Looks like you have been chosen. 

I would like to make the drawings ... in Solidworks with* dual dimensions*.
Metric would the primary units with imperial second. That would gives the best of both worlds.
If okay I will start today with the Item 18 - Crank Case (I see there is already a small issue with it! :-[)


I'm thinking about doing the #4-Cylinders with #7-Liners and #9-Pistons (since close mating issues).


Pat H.


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 2, 2011)

> do we build an extra one to donate for shows)


If you look through the older TB posts you will see the basics. 
TB one the idea was one extra for show and one to auction to benefit a charity. 
we ended up with only one extra because one guy had to quit for heath reasons we decided all who helped buid deserved and engine.
So figure one extra if someone has a good reason to bow out than all are covered all all who start complete the task then the team decides how to hand the spare engine. 
Tin


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## chrispare (Sep 2, 2011)

Path if making the drawings in solidworks will not be much of a problem then go for it,Im sure it would be appreated.


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## chrispare (Sep 2, 2011)

chrispare..ontario ........................bearing housing with bearings #13,#14,#15 spacer
stevehuckss396.. MI USA.............con rods #2,#17
maverick..colorado,usa.................#10 flywheel #11 nut #12 collett
rleete..NY USA
aermotor8..??
path..usa...................................#6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons
dalem9..??.................................#4 cylinder head #5 cylinder boss #3 air tubes
pcw in the Netherlands.................wood bases #24 studs,nits,screws
T_ottoboni in Brazil......................#1 steam chest cover #20 steam chest
joe d... montreal Ont.....................#21port flange#22 orbital valve #23 breather 

If all want in thats 11 engines, with one extra for shows.

So we need someone for parts. 
#6 cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons (need 3 people)
#16 cankshaft #19 return crank
#18 crankcase


That sound about right???


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## Path (Sep 3, 2011)

Chris ...

Almost right ...

I was starting the drawing for #18 Crank Case.

Building #4 Cylinder, #7 Liners and possibly #9 Pistons.


Pat H.


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 3, 2011)

You may want to do the cylinders and pistons in sets. then have three guys do them. so each guy is doing 11 each piston/cylinder .
tin


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## dalem9 (Sep 3, 2011)

How do I sine up for the part I am to make Dale


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## Path (Sep 3, 2011)

Tin,

Agreed ... I was thinking about making them in sets of three.
I would make say 3 sets (9 total for 3 Radials), someone else would do some similar.

But we will have to be in close contact with the Crank Case and Main Bearing builders 
due to the tight mounting and other issues.

It's late so I gotta go ...


Pat H.


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## chrispare (Sep 3, 2011)

dalem9  said:
			
		

> How do I sine up for the part I am to make Dale



You just let me know what it is you want to do (if its not taken)

chris


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## SBWHART (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi Guys

Its a great surprise and honer that you've chosen the potty three cylinder for a team build, I wish you all a great success.

By way of background to the engine, its based on Edger T Westbury's Cygnet Royal Engine, you can still buy casting kits for his engine. I did a fair bit of redesign:- cylinders, crank, crankcase, con rods and a few more bits to make it look more interesting and easy-er to make from bar stock.

Room is tight in the crank case so you'll have to be careful to work on the plus side.

I also used cast iron for the cylinder liners and pistons you may change it to steel and aluminium without any effect on function.

I don't really know how team builds work, particularly with interfacing the parts together what with the mix of people with different levels of skill and equipment, so could I suggest that the screwed holes for fixing the parts together are left unmachined, so that that can be drilled through on final assembly that way you won't have a problem with holes lining up. 

Ther's a complete build log on madmodder at http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2317.0

I also had the build published in Model Engineer Vol 206 No 4397

I'll be sending PatH my drawings so he can do his convertion thing.

I will be more than happy to help with problems just give me a PM

Sound like a fun project

I hope you all enjoy it

Cheers

Stew


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 3, 2011)

sbwhart  said:
			
		

> could I suggest that the screwed holes for fixing the parts together are left unmachined, so that that can be drilled through on final assembly that way you won't have a problem with holes lining up.



I would rather the drawings have dimensions with tolerances. I think an important part of this build would be for the part maker to finish the entire part to plan, to make the part to size and within tolerance. If the person who makes the crankcase hits his numbers and the person who makes the front cover hits his number, the parts will fit. 

The point of the team build is to have a person concentrate on making a part to spec. The person makes multiples of the same part so it is much easier to get them within tolerance. The reward is a running engine of your own. 

I think all parts should be finished 100%


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## t_ottoboni (Sep 3, 2011)

Can I be in charge of making parts #1 steam chest cover #20 steam chest?
If you guys think #1 and #20 is too little job for one person, I can make more parts, no problem!


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## maverick (Sep 3, 2011)

Hello all,
I'd like to do #10-flywheel, #11-nut and #12-collet. I agree with steve in that the parts should be finished as
much as possible. Makers of tightly fitting parts may have to compare notes for best results.
Chrispare- I have added my location to my posts. Elizabeth, Colorado is on the high plains SE of Denver.
I also have good milling capability and could take on another part or two if needed.

Regards,
Mike


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## dalem9 (Sep 3, 2011)

Chris For some reason I can not find the plans for this build .Sorry no sleep can do funny things to you.Dale


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## maverick (Sep 3, 2011)

Dale,
Plans are in the downloads section on page 12.


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## dalem9 (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks I will look Dale


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## dalem9 (Sep 3, 2011)

I can make Parts 4,and 5 Thanks If this is o.k. Dale


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## dalem9 (Sep 3, 2011)

I can also make part #3. I have some 3l16 brass tube,so who ever is making the cyl. can let me know if this is o.k. Dale


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## dalem9 (Sep 3, 2011)

After looking at the plans a sesond time we better stay with 1/8 Dale


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## chrispare (Sep 3, 2011)

T_ottoboni, if you would like to take more We will need 3 members to #6 cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons. 


I agree with Steve that all parts should be completed. Of course there will have to be some comunication between members (thats how friendships begin)

Mike(maveric) also if you would like to take on more go for it


( who was going to do the crankcase? )


chris


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## maverick (Sep 3, 2011)

Chris,
 I'll let the rest of the team members pick thier parts and see what else needs done. As to the cylinders, 
note 1. on the drawing says the cast iron liner can be dispenced with using an unlined aluminum cylinder.
This would save some work and should run fine. Just a thought.

Regards,
Mike

P.S. Thanks for driving the bus, a karma point for you.


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## chrispare (Sep 3, 2011)

As long as all the cylinders are made the same it dosnt need to be cast


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## joe d (Sep 3, 2011)

Chris

I'll do #s 21,22, & 23. I'm not equipped for screw cutting, so studs & nuts would have to be
done with a tap & die, which I can do if we're converting to non-metric....

Joe


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## t_ottoboni (Sep 3, 2011)

Could the cylinder liners be made with trunk shocks tube? They're pretty smoth ans polished inside, and the one I have here are 16mm inside. I believe that would be possible to get more of the same dimension.


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## pcw (Sep 4, 2011)

what i can make. let me think. oak wood base plate with hand engaved serie number on brass plate? throw in all needed nuts and bolts?
my machining skills are limited at the moment. mini lathe i have is still not in working order 
Pascal


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 4, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> note 1. on the drawing says the cast iron liner can be dispenced with using an unlined aluminum cylinder.
> This would save some work and should run fine. Just a thought.




If the piston is aluminum an unlined cylinder would be a bad idea. The cylinders for TB4 had a brass tube pressed into the bore for an aluminum piston. Maybe a liner from some 12L14 would be a good idea.


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## chrispare (Sep 4, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> If the piston is aluminum an unlined cylinder would be a bad idea. The cylinders for TB4 had a brass tube pressed into the bore for an aluminum piston. Maybe a liner from some 12L14 would be a good idea.



I do agree with the alum on alum is bad


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## chrispare (Sep 4, 2011)

pcw  said:
			
		

> what i can make. let me think. oak wood base plate with hand engaved serie number on brass plate? throw in all needed nuts and bolts?
> my machining skills are limited at the moment. mini lathe i have is still not in working order
> Pascal



You got it, and hope you get that lathe fixed. Its no good just sitin there.


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## pcw (Sep 4, 2011)

how many baseplates, what size and how many bolts and nuts in total? and ill go get to it to make the bases and get enough bolts and nuts to send out.
what text prefered on tagplate? serie numbers?
Pascal


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## chrispare (Sep 4, 2011)

pcw  said:
			
		

> how many baseplates, what size and how many bolts and nuts in total? and ill go get to it to make the bases and get enough bolts and nuts to send out.
> what text prefered on tagplate? serie numbers?
> Pascal




The plans call for, M3 dome nuts and washers(36),  M3 studding (12in)
so mutiply that by the number if engines thats what we need.

As for the bases< I dont know about anyone else but I am good with whatever you decide.

We need ti give it a few more days do see how many members we got on this build and then we can get on our way.

Chris


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## pcw (Sep 4, 2011)

we are going to build one extra for auction right? thinking of making sort of certificate for that one with names of all builders? just an idea maybe. 
i'll get all nuts, washers and enough threaded rod for all engines than, least i can do since i cannot realy machine something at the moment. so that will all be covered.
Pascal


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## SBWHART (Sep 4, 2011)

pcw  said:
			
		

> how many baseplates, what size and



My base is 130mm * 120mm * 18mm

Stew


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 4, 2011)

Do we have enough people to make this build work?

If so, I think we just need a list of who is in, what each is making, and a count of how many engines we are making. As soon as that is settled I will start collecting the materials and start making parts.


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## chrispare (Sep 4, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Do we have enough people to make this build work?
> 
> If so, I think we just need a list of who is in, what each is making, and a count of how many engines we are making. As soon as that is settled I will start collecting the materials and start making parts.




just waiting for rleete..NY USA aermotor8..??  to comfirm, lets give them a few days then we'll figure out what still needs to be done.

So far this is what we got...

chrispare..ontario ........................bearing housing with bearings #13,#14,#15 spacer
stevehuckss396.. MI USA.............#18 crankcase
maverick..colorado,usa.................#10 flywheel #11 nut #12 collett, con rods #2,#17
path..usa...................................#6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons
dalem9..??.................................#4 cylinder head #5 cylinder boss #3 air tubes
pcw in the Netherlands.................wood bases #24 studs,nits,screws
T_ottoboni in Brazil......................#1 steam chest cover #6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons
joe d... montreal Ont.....................#20 steam chest #21port flange#22 orbital valve 

If all want in thats 11 engines, with one extra for shows.

So we need someone for parts. 
#6 cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons (need 1 more member)
#16 cankshaft #19 return crank
#23 breather

chris


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 4, 2011)

Looking good Chris . Just remember to remind folks how many copies of each part they need to make. and most people make a couple extra just make sure they get enough good ones. 
Tin


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 4, 2011)

Ok Chris. I will gear up for 12 sets of rods. As soon as we get the green light I will start shopping for material.


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## chrispare (Sep 4, 2011)

I was figuring on 12 engines (10 members ,1 for HMEM and 1 for auction)
 I know it is alot of work and if it is too much we can cut off the auction one.

chris


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 4, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> I was figuring on 12 engines (10 members ,1 for HMEM and 1 for auction)
> I know it is alot of work and if it is too much we can cut off the auction one.
> 
> chris



TB4 we let HMEM show it for a year at shows and then auction it. If that happens you can put on extra bodys and we make 14. Does that sound right?


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## Path (Sep 4, 2011)

Update on drawings and other issues ..


I'm almost finished #18 Crank Case drawing.

I had a few questions so I emailed Stewart and he was very helpful.

We need to decide what to use for the M2 & M3 screws. Finding the matching metric screws
and taps with the same pitch may be a bit of a problem. Taps are in the $15 and up range. 

So we should consider using 2-56 and 4-48, if someone will look into this so I can get back
on the drawings I sure would appreciate it. I haven't look into "8BA" thing yet. Once a decision is made 
I can change the drawings.

Also, Stewart suggested that we use long screws (cut the heads off) as they are much cheaper than the rods. 

Does anyone know Solidworks? I'm having a little trouble with some of the views.

The next drawing will be item #14 Main Bearing Housing this should be much easier and 
will start the assembly process.

Later,


Pat H.


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## chrispare (Sep 4, 2011)

I know a little in solidworks, post or pm what you are having troubles with.


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## t_ottoboni (Sep 4, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> Update on drawings and other issues ..
> 
> 
> I'm almost finished #18 Crank Case drawing.
> ...



Hi Pat, I can help you a little with solidworks. PM me with anything you want!
Since I'm doing parts 20 and 21, I can drill the parts for either imperial or metric (they don't have any threads on them). So feel free to draw the plans with the best choice for the others to build ( We don't want a guy to buy a set of taps just to build one model)

About the liners: Could I use trunk shocks for them? They're perfect for this (chrome inside and 16mm bore), and i can buy many of them, so I could be one of the 3 person needed for cylinders, liners and pistons (i could do 12 of each, in total of 4 groups of cylinders)!


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## SBWHART (Sep 5, 2011)

Hi Guys

The manufacture of the crankcase can be simplyfied if you can drop on some 1 3/4" hax bar, failing that it will have to be 2" dia stuff.

Stew


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## pcw (Sep 5, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> Update on drawings and other issues ..
> 
> 
> I'm almost finished #18 Crank Case drawing.
> ...



i will suply all nuts, washers and threaded rod for the engines. if i know who will assemble all engines, i can send in m3 tap too since the are bit cheaper here. cant see use of m2 in drawing, am i missing something?
Pascal


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 5, 2011)

pcw  said:
			
		

> if i know who will assemble all engines,



When the parts were finished for TB4 we had a list of addresses for all members. I sent my parts directly to the other builders. When all my parts showed up I assembled my own engine. That's part of the fun.


Chris

1-3/4 hex bar is $50 a foot plus shipping. I live less than 10 miles from 4 major metal suppliers. If you want to change my part to the crankcase I can probibly get the best price and avoid shipping. Unless someone already has a piece on hand.


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## chrispare (Sep 5, 2011)

t_ottoboni  said:
			
		

> --------Since I'm doing parts 20 and 21, --------
> 
> I think that part 20,21,22 should be kept togeather ifthats alright wth you guys.
> 
> ...


If it will work and the others are ok with it so am I
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the parts were finished for TB4 we had a list of addresses for all members. I sent my parts directly to the other builders. When all my parts showed up I assembled my own engine. That's part of the fun.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes thats how we should dothisbuid well, When assembleing it nice to see ho the other parts were machined,as well as undertandin te engine design.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Chris

1-3/4 hex bar is $50 a foot plus shipping. I live less than 10 miles from 4 major metal suppliers. If you want to change my part to the crankcase I can probibly get the best price and avoid shipping. Unless someone already has a piece on hand. 

So I can change you to the crankcase? and take you off the rods?


----------



## maverick (Sep 5, 2011)

I may have hex stock for the crankcases and most certianly have 2" round. I'll have to check at the shop tomorrow.
The stock I'm using for the flywheels is leftover from TB5, So I could do the crankcases as well.
I also have the metric taps so we can build to print.

Regards,
Mike


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 5, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> So I can change you to the crankcase? and take you off the rods?



Yep! I'll do the crankcases. I should be able to make 15 Pcs from a 2 foot piece. I'll see about getting some tomorrow.


----------



## pcw (Sep 5, 2011)

I will start on 12 oak baseplates and think of nice brass plate to go with it. what will be best, send to each builder one of them, or send them to one central member?
ill go get the nuts and washers to send out with them. 
first team build for me, i am all excited, hope you are all too. lets make it a good one 
Pascal


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 5, 2011)

pcw  said:
			
		

> I will start on 12 oak baseplates and think of nice brass plate to go with it.



Pascal, wait until everything is finalized and Chris waves the green flag. We may end up with 13 or 14 and you dont want to go back for a few more once your half done.


----------



## Path (Sep 5, 2011)

> About the liners: Could I use trunk shocks for them? They're perfect for this (chrome inside and 16mm bore), and i can buy many of them, so I could be one of the 3 person needed for cylinders, liners and pistons (i could do 12 of each, in total of 4 groups of cylinders)!



I don't have any issues with using truck shocks if it is okay to have an Aluminum Piston against a Chrome wall?? ???
However ... You will need to change the piston diameter to match the 16mm bore and the Gudgio (item #8). My pistons/liners would not be changed. And, I guess that would be okay. But the OD of the liner can't be changed (the wall thickness from 1.585 to 1.525 to me is okay) as that would require a change to the Crank Case opening and that would be too much of a change.



> i will suply all nuts, washers and threaded rod for the engines. if i know who will assemble all engines, i can send in m3 tap too since the are bit cheaper here. cant see use of m2 in drawing, am i missing something?
> Pascal



The M2 is used on the Crank Case pg 3 zone B4, those holes mount item #21 Port Flange which uses the 8BA Counter Sunk Screws.

Thanks for the offer for the M3 tap, I think I can find a fellow machinist that has a set. 




Pat H.


----------



## rleete (Sep 5, 2011)

Sorry, late to the party as usual. Computer virus messed up the machine bad enough to require a total wipe of the drive and reload of the OS.

I'm running short on time these days, so I will have to bow out of the build. Hope you guys have a successful team effort, and look forward to seeing the results posted.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 5, 2011)

How would you guys feel about a brass crankcase? I have a 2" bar of brass out in the garage. I gave $20 for it many years ago. Beats spending $100 for aluminum hex and would look cool as hell polished?


----------



## Path (Sep 5, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> How would you guys feel about a brass crankcase? I have a 2" bar of brass out in the garage. I gave $20 for it many years ago. Beats spending $100 for aluminum hex and would look cool as hell polished?




Great ... go for it! :big:


Pat H.


----------



## maverick (Sep 5, 2011)

Steve,brass would look great and contrast nicley with the aluminum cyinders. Chris, are the connecting rods back on the list?
 If so, I'd like to take care of them as well as the flywheels.

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## chrispare (Sep 5, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Yep! I'll do the crankcases. I should be able to make 15 Pcs from a 2 foot piece. I'll see about getting some tomorrow.



I too think that polished brass would look sweet!!


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 5, 2011)

Well we lost 2 today. Any idea where we are right now Chris as far as who is doing what and how many more we need to get started?


----------



## warranator (Sep 5, 2011)

Hey guys I am interested in this build but I live in Australia, will this be a problem? Do you have enough people on this build? I cannot find the plans, can someone please post the link.

If I was involved, small pieces with big quantities would suite me as I would do them on a cnc repetition machine..


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 5, 2011)

in the download at top left ,at the bottem of the page that comes up is down loads then on page 12 Dale


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## t_ottoboni (Sep 5, 2011)

If nobody else shows up to join this TB, I could do the remaining set of #6 cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons. So Path would do one set (11 of each part) and I would the other two sets (22 of each part). 
I'm SO excited to start this Team Build!

How is the metric/imperial decision going?


----------



## chrispare (Sep 5, 2011)

chrispare..ontario .....................bearing housing with bearings #13,#14,#15 spacer
stevehuckss396.. MI USA.......#18 crankcase
maverick..colorado,usa............#10 flywheel #11 nut #12 collett, con rods #2,#17
path..usa.............................#6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons
dalem9..??............................#4 cylinder head #5 cylinder boss #3 air tubes
pcw in the Netherlands...........wood bases #24 studs,nits,screws
T_ottoboni in Brazil................#1 steam chest cover #6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons
joe d... montreal Ont...............#20 steam chest #21port flange#22 orbital valve 


			
				warranator  said:
			
		

> Hey guys I am interested in this build but I live in Australia, will this be a problem? Do you have enough people on this build? I cannot find the plans, can someone please post the link.
> 
> If I was involved, small pieces with big quantities would suite me as I would do them on a cnc repetition machine..


could you do the crankshaft and return crank??



			
				t_ottoboni  said:
			
		

> If nobody else shows up to join this TB, I could do the remaining set of #6 cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons. So Path would do one set (11 of each part) and I would the other two sets (22 of each part).
> I'm SO excited to start this Team Build!
> 
> How is the metric/imperial decision going?



If you guys could do that we can start the build real soon!!

Ok so we now have 9 members,, so lets do 10 engines ,1 extra to go to any shows for a year then auction it off to go to a chairity (My daughter has Cystic Fibrosis so my vote would be for that one)

we still need a few more parts done,                                Steve will you do a breather with the crankcase?

So we just need 
#6 cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons (need 1 more member)
#16 cankshaft #19 return crank

Any more ideas?

Just a little more time then we can get to it.
Then once your done the parts all can pm me your snail mail and I will make a list and pm it out to all members, or you can mail me the parts and I will mail to all members its up to you.

So to clairify we will do 9 engines to the list above, does it look right tall of you?
Am I missing anything?


----------



## warranator (Sep 5, 2011)

Not sure if it is me but I don't seem to see a set of plans/dwgs, just a pic of the motor. Potty three cylinder radial in downloads.


----------



## warranator (Sep 6, 2011)

Ok. Have the plans now, they wouldn't download with google chrome for some reason.


----------



## warranator (Sep 6, 2011)

****....Can see why no one volunteered to do the crank shafts. I reckon I could give them a go. Few questions though.

1) Does anyone have a picture of this crank finished, it's easier to visualize. 
2) What do the holes do?
3) What is the length of the crank journal? 

The crank return looks easy enough but I can't picture it, would prefer to see a pic of it if possible.


----------



## SBWHART (Sep 6, 2011)

Answer to warrentor ?

1) Does anyone have a picture of this crank finished, it's easier to visualize. 







2) What do the holes do?

The holes are oil feeds to the bearings

3) What is the length of the crank journal? 

19mm


The crank return looks easy enough but I can't picture it, would prefer to see a pic of it if possible.






It fit here locating on the drive flats on the crank







The crank and the return crank have a couple of features that are critical to the engine timing, their function is not obviouse so I'll explain:- the crank has two flats to drive the return crank, the orientation of these flats is important. The return crank has a small 3mm dia pin that drives the orbital valve if you look at the drawing note it's position to the rest of the crank this position is important to time the engine.

If you look back in the thread there is a link to the engine build on madmodder.

Stew


----------



## maverick (Sep 6, 2011)

Thanks for the pictures Stew. I'm making the con rods and it 's always nice to get an eyeball 
on the part. The drawings are very tidy and easy to read, just one question so far. Is there a thread 
on the end of the crankshaft for the flywheel nut?

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## SBWHART (Sep 6, 2011)

? Is there a thread on the end of the crankshaft for the flywheel nut?

Yes M8

Stew


----------



## chrispare (Sep 6, 2011)

Ok so Warranator will do the crank and return crank
and if path and T_ottoboni split the #6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons we can get on with this.

It looks like we will do 10 engines.

If were all good say ok and we'll get going.


chris


----------



## maverick (Sep 6, 2011)

Thanks Stew, I couldn't find it on the print. Stands to reason it should match the nut.
 Team-I'll start on the connecting rods first. The bushing stock will be here this week. What is 
Our time line on this build? How about fast enough to keep it interesting but not so fast to take away the fun.

Regards,
Mike


----------



## joe d (Sep 6, 2011)

Chris:

I'm good with ten. Lets get going!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 6, 2011)

Sounds good to me lets go .I will make 10 of #3-4-5. The show begins Thanks Dale


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 6, 2011)

10 crankcases coming right up. I will start this weekend.


----------



## Path (Sep 6, 2011)

I know everyone is probably very anxious to start making chips ... I know I am.
But we need to pause a moment (actually a day or so) and go over a few potentially issues.
I feel that we need get these out of the way before starting rather than having surprises after a build.

I'm almost finished with the drawings. Once I finish a drawing, I then insert into an assembly drawing to see how it fits with the other parts.

I would like some more time to finish this part of the project ... but I need a day or so. 
Stew has been very helpful and quick in response to my questions and I don't think I will have too many more ... but let's be the safe side.


Comments...


Pat


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 6, 2011)

I'm good with that Path. When you have the drawings ready we should all build off your plans so everybody works from the same drawings.


----------



## t_ottoboni (Sep 6, 2011)

I'm OK with making 5 sets of #9 pistons, #7 liners and #6 cylinders (total of 15 of each part) plus #1 Steam chest cover (10 parts)

Path is right about taking it more slowly now, so I'll wait for this final plans to start making chips ;D
The only thing I'll start right now is look for the materials needed for those parts!

Very nice to see how this Team Build is going on!


----------



## warranator (Sep 6, 2011)

Thanks for the pics. 

Yeah all good on my side to make the crank and and crank return. The drawings do not have tolerances. Will they be added to the updated edition.?


----------



## warranator (Sep 6, 2011)

Oh just to be clear 10 off crank and 10 off crank return and maybe a couple spare as the machine will just spit them out anyway once set.


----------



## chrispare (Sep 6, 2011)

Ok Path heres the whole team waitin on you ( no pressure)lol
It all sounds good to me,
What kind of time line ,well I think that before Christmas is a good one. That leaves 4 months BUT LETS SHOOT FOR NOVEMBER (what you think?)

chris


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 6, 2011)

Parts in the mail by November 30th

I think we should send the parts directly to the other builders. To send them to a person who would then send them again just doesn't make sense.


----------



## chrispare (Sep 6, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Parts in the mail by November 30th
> 
> I think we should send the parts directly to the other builders. To send them to a person who would then send them again just doesn't make sense.



Agreed. 3months should be plenty. 

I forgot to mention that I ordered a bunch of bearings today, they should be here by Thursday so when get them I will give an accurate measurement of the inside ( mate for the crank)


----------



## warranator (Sep 6, 2011)

November 30th sounds like a long time but I guess most or all of you are making these parts manually. 30th November is fine with me..


----------



## t_ottoboni (Sep 6, 2011)

November 30th is fine for me! But I'll do my best to send the parts as soon as possible!


----------



## warranator (Sep 6, 2011)

With regards to the bearing id, no worries mate.


----------



## maverick (Sep 7, 2011)

OK, Team Build 6 is off and running. I know Pat is working on drawings so I'll busy myself with bushings and gathering material
for a few days. November will be here soon enough. Good luck Guys.

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## pcw (Sep 7, 2011)

quote: 
Ok so we now have 9 members,, so lets do 10 engines ,1 extra to go to any shows for a year then auction it off to go to a chairity (My daughter has Cystic Fibrosis so my vote would be for that one)

sounds perfect charity to me.

ill make 10 oak base plates and make sure all are send out with the right amount of nuts and bolts. on bottom i'm thinking of writing the link to this site? (i'm open for options and thought ) ill make brass plates with serienumbers. 001 should be the one for auction i think (some sort of certificate for that one too?), rest send out randomly?
Pascal


----------



## chrispare (Sep 7, 2011)

[/quote]

ill make 10 oak base plates and make sure all are send out with the right amount of nuts and bolts. on bottom i'm thinking of writing the link to this site? (i'm open for options and thought ) ill make brass plates with serienumbers. 001 should be the one for auction i think (some sort of certificate for that one too?), rest send out randomly?
Pascal

[/quote]

I like the serieal number Idea as well as having this sites address on it . It would be nice to have the team build # on it as part of the serial# too.

I went and got the material today so when we get those updated drawings im ready.

chris

Anyone know what number Team build this is??


----------



## maverick (Sep 7, 2011)

Chris,
 This is team build #6. I also like the serial numbered plaques. If everyone agrees, I can mark the face of the flywheel with " HMEM - Team Build 6 - 2011" or what ever you can suggest. Just a thought.

Regards,
Mike


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 7, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> Chris,
> This is team build #6. I also like the serial numbered plaques. If everyone agrees, I can mark the face of the flywheel with " HMEM - Team Build 6 - 2011" or what ever you can suggest. Just a thought.
> 
> Regards,
> Mike



I like the idea. I stamped tb4 on the top of the cylinder block.


----------



## pcw (Sep 8, 2011)

think it would look nice to put "hmem TB6 2011" on the flywheel.
i go on with the serienumbers plaques, all agree on no1 for the auction engine and rest randomly? 
for the no1 engine ill make brass plate under the base with short text that its build by people from all over the world, stating its build to raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research and link to this forum? let me know what you think 
Pascal


----------



## chrispare (Sep 8, 2011)

pcw  said:
			
		

> think it would look nice to put "hmem TB6 2011" on the flywheel.
> i go on with the serienumbers plaques, all agree on no1 for the auction engine and rest randomly?
> for the no1 engine ill make brass plate under the base with short text that its build by people from all over the world, stating its build to raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research and link to this forum? let me know what you think
> Pascal




Can't wait to see it, sounds perfect.

Path how are those drawing comin along?

Chris


----------



## maverick (Sep 8, 2011)

Pascal,
 My wife is in the respiratory care field and works with cystis fibrosis patients.
I think the plaque is a fine idea.

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 8, 2011)

Sounds good to me Dale


----------



## pcw (Sep 8, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> Pascal,
> My wife is in the respiratory care field and works with cystis fibrosis patients.
> I think the plaque is a fine idea.
> 
> ...



Chris came up with this charity. believe his daughter has cystic fibrosis. to me, sounds perfect cause for me. think others agree since i didnt hear any disagree 
stinks having bad lungs. lost part of a lung due to a accident when i was 17. iron bar went straight through my chest/lung, missing my heart by an inch. isnt the same by far, but still. thats why it sounds good to me, i dont have much problems with my remaining lung now, legs/feet are totaly different story 
Pascal


----------



## Path (Sep 8, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> Chris,
> This is team build #6. I also like the serial numbered plaques. If everyone agrees, I can mark the face of the flywheel with " HMEM - Team Build 6 - 2011" or what ever you can suggest. Just a thought.
> 
> Regards,
> Mike



I like it. 




			
				pcw  said:
			
		

> think it would look nice to put "hmem TB6 2011" on the flywheel.
> i go on with the serienumbers plaques, all agree on no1 for the auction engine and rest randomly?
> for the no1 engine ill make brass plate under the base with short text that its build by people from all over the world, stating its build to raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research and link to this forum? let me know what you think
> Pascal



Agreed ... 


Pat H


----------



## Path (Sep 8, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> Path how are those drawing comin along?
> 
> Chris




Chris ...
Okay a short status on the drawings.

About 95% complete as of noon my time today 9/8/11. 

Most of what is left just needs to be touched up a bit. Others I need to figure out how to do ... small stuff of no real consequence,
like the decorative parts of the flywheel ... basic is done but not those curved cutouts. I will pick those up later, when there is more time.

There are things about the drawing format the I don't care for ... but I'm not going to take the time now (again later) to try and change them.

The next step ... I plan going through each drawing to be sure I haven't made any errors. I caught most of them during the assembly process, so that should be easy. I will also look for things that are on Stew's drawings that I didn't include. Other unknown issues that will crop up and we know that Murphy is lurking somewhere in the wind. ???

Later today (I hope) I will post the findings so that we start a discussion on how to proceed ...


Later,

Pat H


----------



## warranator (Sep 8, 2011)

CF charity sounds good to me.


----------



## chrispare (Sep 9, 2011)

The bearings came in today, 
The measurements are 9.6mm or .377in where the crank goes through

Chris


----------



## Path (Sep 10, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> The bearings came in today,
> The measurements are 9.6mm or .377in where the crank goes through
> 
> Chris




Chris ...

Wow .. who makes those bearings. If that ID is correct it will make the Crank very sloppy!

I downloaded a McMaster Carr bearing which has an ID of 0.375" +0.000 to -0.003. The -0.003 is still way too much.

Looked at another bearing (NSK) and it is spec'd at 0.0003 or so. Need to look into that in more detail.


Pat H.


----------



## Path (Sep 10, 2011)

Drawing update ...

Done ... well almost ... still have the Breather (#23) to do and a few minor adjustments here and there, but ready to go.

Nearly 30 drawings in all. One part per page, makes them nice and big, most have a of scale 2:1.


Recall that I said these drawings would provide both metric and imperial numbers and they do. But no tolerances ... Stew's 
drawings are for modelers, not for production nor 9 different vendors (us in this case). To provide tolerances would require a
complete redesign ... not for us.

Issues:

*1. Crank Case (#18)* ...

Probably the most critical part of all. Most other parts mount on this part. Holes must placed as shown 
just right or the mating part won't fit. Some parts have the same dimension as the mating part ... for example; the Main Bearing Housing ... 
has a insert diameter of 31.75mm the Crank Case also 31.75mm. The Cylinder Liner is wider then the CC. How to handle this and other parts like it
needs to be resolved before starting. This would not be an issue when a single person is making it as they could easy modify as required along the way.

There are 3 M2 threaded holes that are used to mount the Port Flange. Stew reports that he ended up using what he had on hand ...the smallest countersunk screws that he had ... the 8BA has major diameter of 2.2mm with a pitch of 0.43mm. We might want to change it to imperial 2-56 flat head and mail the 3 screws with the CC.

Needs the holes for the stand.


*2. Crank Shaft (#16)* ... 

It doesn't line up with the Return Crank slot. Just a tad lower ... maybe not a big deal if all other parts are right on ... but if not built in our favor it might have to be slimmed down at the slot. We'll see.


*3. Port Flange (#21) ...*

The total length of the part needs to be changed from 9.54mm to 8mm. Otherwise it sticks inside the Crank Case too far ... the Return Crank won't be position correctly. 

*4. Slave Rod (#17) ...
*
The dim 11.91mm should be 12.02mm , believe this a math error.

*5. Return Crank (#19) ...*

The radius is 25.4mm but the distance from the bottom to the top is given 
as 25.4mm this should be 25.17.

*6. Cylinder Liner (#7) ...*

If built per print the Crank Shaft may hit the Liner .. may have to trim down the 15.88mm radius.

*7. Slave Rods(#17) and Master Rod (#2) ...*

The Center Lines and width dimensions are very important to be maintained. They line up 
the 3 Cylinders. The accumulative total will play a key role the location of the 3 pistons. If
too short they will be sloppy, too big it will bind the piston. 

* 8. Spacer (#15) ...*

The nominal width is 2mm, if built to print needs to be trimmed to 1.2mm. This lines up the top piston and its rod to the Crank Shaft.
Which is depend on the Crank Case Housing wall thickness and the location of the bearing.

*9. Bearing (#15) ...*

So far the ID is too far from the Crank Shaft diameter ... this needs to be looked at before the parts are built.



That's it for now.

I need to just figure out the best way to make the drawing available ... what format.

I will out of town till Sunday night ...so I won't be able to answer any questions after 
say 9:00am my time Saturday until Sunday night after 9:00pm.



Pat H.


----------



## chrispare (Sep 10, 2011)

I measured again with a differeng caliper and they are right on 9.53-9.55

I think that the battery is going in my other guage oops.

I would say fix those problems however looks best as you have all the drawings in front of you (not to mention that you seem to know what you are doing) HAHA

CHRIS


----------



## dsquire (Sep 10, 2011)

Gentleman

First off, good luck with the team build. May everyone hit the numbers dead on with all the pieces fitting perfectly.

I would be very hesitant to start the team build from a new drawing that has a lot of changes or questions on it. If an engine has already been built from the drawing exactly as drawn then it would be OK. This would check out the drawing as being OK.

If it was being built as 10 engines in one shop you might get away with it because you would have the parts to test fit and could make changes on the fly if need be. If it is built as 10 engines in 9 different shops around the world then the chance of parts not fitting are too great. I have worked as design draftsman for too many years and know what is likely to happen in the above scenario. 

"_There are 3 M2 threaded holes that are used to mount the Port Flange_." You have mentioned that they might be changed to a 2-56 imperial thread. My advice would be to keep them as a metric thread. Change the size if need be, redesign if need be but please don't mix threads on an international build like this. Can you imagine the frustration of taking something apart and having to find a replacement screw (imperial) when all the rest are metric. Don't cause your kids or grand-kids to use foul language.

Please don't take this as criticism. It is not meant that way but as a means of helping to avoid a possible problem before it becomes one. I will be following along as the build progresses. :bow:

Cheers 

Don


----------



## chrispare (Sep 10, 2011)

Don, I think that part of the challange of a team build is getting a running engine built from different people and different shops.(weather from new plans or old ones)

All I can say is bring on the challange, 

chris


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 12, 2011)

#5 all made just have to polish them.I can now stand up for about 20 to 30 minutes at a time .Doing good, Doc. would proabily kill me if he know .Dale


----------



## Path (Sep 12, 2011)

Don

I do agree with Chris ... it will be a challenge, but as long as we work together the job will come together.

I really don't expect to have all the parts I receive fit together. I will need to do some tweaking here and there ... but that is what modeler's do ... tweak and find ways to get the parts to fit.

Although there are both imperial and metric threads in the design it probably would be a good idea to keep that one metric.
Maybe someone else should comment.


Thanks for your comments,


Pat H.


----------



## Path (Sep 12, 2011)

Well the drawings are ready.

Anyone know how to get them in a good format.

I will email Stew to get his thoughts.


Pat H


----------



## dreeves (Sep 12, 2011)

Path, Im not in this build but would like to built the engine. If possible could I get a copy of the drawings you did? I think a good way to share the prints with the build team would be a PDF file.

Dave


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 12, 2011)

pdf works for me Thanks Dale


----------



## chrispare (Sep 12, 2011)

Your using solidworks, save it as a dwg file (dwg viewer is free to download) 
I use solidworks so you can send me the original file if you like.


----------



## t_ottoboni (Sep 12, 2011)

I would like the solidworks files too! 
The pdf drawings would be better for everyone to follow the exact plans, as they're easy to view, print and download.


----------



## Path (Sep 13, 2011)

*Okay .. PDF it is.*  Will try post them so everyone has access. 

Working on that now ... hope to have it done today (or tomorrow since Murphy been getting in the way). 
Also since the team will be using them I will maintain a revision log so that users will know the status of any changes. 


Any additional comments on the items a few threads back?

Should hear from Stew soon.


Pat H.


----------



## DTANNER (Sep 14, 2011)

;D Yea I would love to be part of a team build it does not matter what type of engine please let me know. Although my status says newbie. I have been machining for about 4 years an I have acess to a completemachine shop at the college that Iattended for my degree.


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 14, 2011)

Chris this is ok with me i have all of #5 made and I made extra just for this reason .Dale


----------



## pcw (Sep 14, 2011)

got wood?

well i have. made 10 baseplates out of solid oak. made it from a piece of oak that i had for years. will post up some pics tomorow. still thinking what to finish them with. oil or varnish, not decided yet. or do you guys want them untreated?
now of to get some brass plates for the serienumbers, and get the screws sorted 
Pascal


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 14, 2011)

pcw what ever you decide is fine with me Dale


----------



## maverick (Sep 14, 2011)

Pascal,
 There will be lube oil getting on the base occasionally so an oil resistant finish 
would be best.

 Mike


----------



## pcw (Sep 15, 2011)

quick pic of the bases. cut and handsanded from old oak floorboard.







pascal


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## Path (Sep 15, 2011)

I have been having problems emailing attachments to Stew. ??? So we thought it would be appropriate to post a sample drawing here so that he could review the format.

Stew ... I have been getting your emails, so you can either post them here, email or PM me your thoughts.

This sample drawing represents what each drawing will contain ... those items in the squares.
The only thing missing (but will be included) is a revision and document date.
Also I don't know if I should include my name. 

There are about 30 drawings (one of each part, except item 24) and one drawing will include a Material List, much like yours.
Each drawing is a single page except the Crank Case, due to its complexity it has 3 pages.

Once set I will get them in PDF format so that everyone who wants one can just download it.


Other comments are also welcomed. 


Pat H


----------



## Path (Sep 15, 2011)

pascal ...


Nice  

Pat H.


----------



## chrispare (Sep 15, 2011)

bases lookin good, as are the drawings.


----------



## SBWHART (Sep 15, 2011)

Drawaing looks good

 ;D

Stew


----------



## pcw (Sep 15, 2011)

nice drawings. makes my think i have to start to get back into AutoCad/inventor again................
pascal


----------



## Path (Sep 15, 2011)

Steve ...


Since you are machine the Crankcase I thought you might answer the following:

The 2mm and 3mm tapped holes ... what size tap do you plan on using?
What should the clearance holes size be (3.15 or 3.3)?

The 9.46 mm hole for the Port Flange (9.53) ... the drawing needs to be changed.
Do you want to make that hole larger say 9.54, so that the Port Flange will slip in?

The holes for the Liners .. will you make those a little larger say 19.06? 
The hole for the Main Bearing Housing is at 31.75 maybe this should be 31.76 for slip fit?

Any thoughts about the mounting holes for the aluminum stand?

With this input I can change the drawing. 


If anyone has thoughts on these issues and other items please let us know.

There are other fit issues ... if you can review them I will incorporate them in to drawings.


Thanks,


Pat H.


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 15, 2011)

Pat on the cylinder liner part # 7 the inside dia. is 15.88 mm .Then on the cylinder head part #4 the insert has a 15 mm Dia.too, seeing that we are not going to be able to test fit there parts should I not make this smaller and if so by how much. Thanks for your time Dale


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 15, 2011)

Chris What is the final number of engines we are going to build ?Thanks Dale


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 15, 2011)

I AM SORRY , That's 15.88 mm on part # 4 .Dale


----------



## chrispare (Sep 15, 2011)

dalem9  said:
			
		

> Chris What is the final number of engines we are going to build ?Thanks Dale



chrispare..ontario .....................bearing housing with bearings #13,#14,#15 spacer
Dtanner...............................#18 crankcase
maverick..colorado,usa............#10 flywheel #11 nut #12 collett, con rods #2,#17
path..usa.............................#6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons
dalem9..??............................#4 cylinder head #5 cylinder boss #3 air tubes
pcw in the Netherlands...........wood bases #24 studs,nits,screws
T_ottoboni in Brazil................#1 steam chest cover #6cylinder #7 liners #9 pistons
joe d... montreal Ont...............#20 steam chest #21port flange#22 orbital valve 
warrantor.............................crankshaft and return crank

so we are doing 10 engines.


----------



## Path (Sep 15, 2011)

Dale,

In this case I don't think it will matter. The piston does not reach that location, in fact it's about 4mm
lower when at TDC. There is no tight fit required. So I would change the Cylinder Boss diameter to 15.87mm, I will do that in the drawing now. 
If it turns out that it won't fit it would be easy for the builder to file away a little or turn down the liner
.02mm or so at that inside edge.

Thanks for the question,


Pat H


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi I will try .02 mm is .0006 thousands imp.I don't thing my old machines wiil let me keep that tolerance ,but I will try. Dale


----------



## Path (Sep 15, 2011)

Dale,

How about 15.85mm (.03mm)? If you are less than 15.85 that will be okay. 




Pat


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 15, 2011)

sounds good there is also no mearsure for the lower bolt holes down from the center line in the head part #4 ,unless you have caught that on the new plams Dale


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 15, 2011)

I found it 12.7 mm I know I would fined it once I posted the question .Dale


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Sep 15, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> Steve ...
> 
> 
> Since you are machine the Crankcase I thought you might answer the following:




Hate to do this to you guy's but i'm out of the build. I have been working 2 hours from home and just found out today that i'm up there for 8 to 10 weeks longer. With driving 4 hours a day and working 10 that leaves me no time for anything. The job was supposed to end today and I thought life would resume normal hours. This stinks because I really like these team builds.

Again I'm really sorry.


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 15, 2011)

Chris Dtanner has ask to join us maybe he will be interested in doing steve's parts .Just a throught. Post # 148 Thanks Dale


----------



## chrispare (Sep 15, 2011)

just sent him a pm hope he sees it

Thats too bad steve but work has got to come first i guess..
Hopefully you can get in on the next one


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 16, 2011)

Chris I got ahold ot tanner .He is going to look at the plans and get back with me .Thanks Dale


----------



## chrispare (Sep 16, 2011)

Good news dtanner is going to take steves place, so welcome. 

Path how are those plans coming along? 

Chris


----------



## maverick (Sep 16, 2011)

Welcome to the team dtanner.
 Pat, I'm ready to make the con-rods. Can I use the original plans or will the new plans be different. I am already 
changing the big end bushing OD from 10mm to 3/8 inch due to available stock. Of course the ID will remain the same.
I plan to ream the little end ID to .001 clearance on the 4mm wrist pin. I'm watching my grandson this weekend,
so no chips till Monday. Thanks for all the work on the drawings, the steam chest drawing looks great.

Regards,
Mike


----------



## Path (Sep 17, 2011)

Chris ...

Drawing update ...

Ready to do the PDF conversion then upload to site.
This should take place Saturday or Sunday. 

Murphy has only caused a few delays but I'm stilling moving forward.

*Dtanner* ... welcome to the team. There has been a few Crankcase drawing changes.
Mainly opening a few holes a little.
Have you had a chance to read through these posts? There are few questions about the 
Crankcase that needs to be answered. And then the drawing will be updated. I still plan on 
uploading them this weekend and then make changes as needed.


*Mike ...*
Great to hear about your changes ... any thoughts on the Crank Shaft end?



Pat H.


----------



## maverick (Sep 17, 2011)

Pat,
 The crankshaft (big) end will be reamed to .251 or one thou clearance on the 6.35mm crank throw.
 Luckily, I have about 50 .251 reamers that were in a auction lot. Just have to find the sharp ones.
 Looking forward to seeing the drawings. I've done a lot of CAM work but my CAD drawings all look like
 the wrong way example in the book.

 Mike


----------



## DTANNER (Sep 17, 2011)

HI all  Yea I done my best to read through all the posts looks like iwill be a little behind by the time I get to see the prints but that is okay. If all goes well I should get about 5 hours a day to work on this crankcase. So we are doing this is metric : not done alot of metric work but all of our DRO's have both so I should be ok and so do my hand tools.

I have looked at the part in the few vids that I have seen and it does not appear to be difficult just time consumming but fun I love a challenge.


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 17, 2011)

Hi Tanner I'm glad you decide to come along . Dale


----------



## Path (Sep 18, 2011)

Drawing update...

*The drawings are available in PDF format. * 

Still working on:
3000  Top assembly
3008  3011 M8 Nut (simple)
3013  Bearings (just a copy of an existing drawing like McMaster)
Added 3023 Breather
3024  Nut & Washers etc (haven't figure out how to do this yet ... even if required)

The 3000 is almost done so it will be first, then M8, Bearings.

I been having some difficulty in learning how to upload the pdfs so for now 
*PM me and I will send them*. _*But I guess I need your email address*_.  

I will also send a copy of Stew's pdf so that you can compare them if needed.


As you report changes I will update the drawing and post when they are ready.
Some drawing still have fit issues that I thought I would leave until later. 


But the Crank Case (3018) has been adjusted.
Still need the thread sizes that will be used.

That's it for now.


Pat H.


----------



## chrispare (Sep 20, 2011)

Pat, I had a chance to look at the drawings, they are well done you must of put in some time on them.

I will hopefully get some shop time in tonight and put them to use.

Very well done and thanky you


----------



## Path (Sep 20, 2011)

Chris ...

Thanks ...it was a lot of work, but I learned a lot about SW and Stewart's Radial.


I have drawings 3000, 3011, 3013 and 3023 nearly done so I will be e-mailing those today.

Hope to get to my assignment this week. 



Pat


----------



## chrispare (Sep 25, 2011)

Well I hope its so quies in here because were all horking hard?

I have got out in the shop for a few hours the last few days, I have 10 blanks cut and am starting to turn down to sizes. Its gonna be a buisy week over here but I am going to try to get some me time and work on them some more.

How is everyone else doing?
Any problems?

Chris


----------



## joe d (Sep 25, 2011)

Well,

I'm still waiting for the brown truck to show up with the material I had to order.... it's allegedly in Concord, Ontario as of yesterday
and should be at my door Tuesday AM. At least, got to tidy up the shop a little, and make the Boss happy by cutting the grass.

Joe


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 27, 2011)

Well When you are the busiest every thing goes wrong .Bearing went out of my mill .There was no way to lub. them .So I put in the new bearings and added a grease fitting , should worked great right ,wrong I filled the cavity with the grease and when I turned the machine on ,the lower bearing sucked out the grease and throw it erery were, yea everywere ,so I made a holder for a seal and put it all together,we will see if everything works in the morning.then maybe I can get some parts made for us . Night all Dale


----------



## maverick (Sep 27, 2011)

Sounds like the headstock bearing on my 11 inch delta lathe, I watched a line of grease form on the wall behind it
 before I noticed the line forming on my shirt. I hope the seal sorts it out.

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## DTANNER (Sep 28, 2011)

Got the Aluminum for the crankcases today will start makinging the blanks tomarrow. Will take some pictures along the way to show my progress. Was hoping my instructors would find another person to do the pick up work that we get in from the public, well was hoping ;D. Will try to give some kind of timeline by next week.

Dan


----------



## dalem9 (Sep 29, 2011)

Well back to making chips , what a battle ,Grease seals make a lot of heat rubbing on the shaft.Guess I'am going to just have to deal with it .Finely got all the grease cleaned up .I will be ready to make heads tommrow,if nothing else goes wrong . Night All. Dale


----------



## chrispare (Oct 4, 2011)

So I have been working a little on my parts,making some progress but having alot of trouble with my lathe.


----------



## joe d (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi guys...

I'm very happy to report that I started making parts today!

I'll keep you all advised as they progress.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## maverick (Oct 4, 2011)

Hello Team,
 Con rod bushings are finished and will be final reamed after press fitting in place. 
 Master rods in progress, slave rods to follow. I thought about doing them all at once, but decided
 to do masters first as they are easier, symmetrical and lower quantity. The process will be well refined
 for the second batch. Material for the flywheels is on hand and will have to wait for the rods.
 Thanks to all for the updates and the added incentive they bring.

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## warranator (Oct 6, 2011)

I have the job of making the crank shaft. Does anybody have any objection to me making the crank in 2 pieces? I will make the main part of the crank first and then make the crank pin second and then press them together, I will then mill the flats.


----------



## Path (Oct 7, 2011)

Warranator,

My two concerns ... would the two pieces be parallel and stay together?


Pat


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 7, 2011)

Head are about 50% done , seal came on screw yep grease all over again . Haveing fun . Dale


----------



## SBWHART (Oct 7, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> Warranator,
> 
> My two concerns ... would the two pieces be parallel and stay together?
> 
> ...



Making the crank in one peice can be a real son of a B**** I know some one who did it thats why I went for the two piece if you make a little sleave to it on the crank with a hole through it to fit the pin, and press in through the hole it will go together square.

Stew


----------



## t_ottoboni (Oct 7, 2011)

In part #1 Steam Chest Cover, the 1/4" - 36TPI really need to be this thread? It's been a pain to find this tap here!
I could use MF6 (6mm x 0,5mm) or (6mm x 0,75mm) or even 1/4" - 28TPI
What do you guys think?

And what finish do you want in them? Sandblasted or mirror polished? ;D


----------



## warranator (Oct 7, 2011)

I will play around with technics to make sure the pin is pressed in straight. 

I might even spot weld it after pressing in, will have to see if it distorts anything, i can grind the weld 
clean afterwards, will do some experimenting.


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 7, 2011)

I would prefur polished .Thread does not matter to me. Thanks Dale


----------



## joe d (Oct 7, 2011)

t_ottoboni  said:
			
		

> In part #1 Steam Chest Cover, the 1/4" - 36TPI really need to be this thread? It's been a pain to find this tap here!
> I could use MF6 (6mm x 0,5mm) or (6mm x 0,75mm) or even 1/4" - 28TPI
> What do you guys think?
> 
> And what finish do you want in them? Sandblasted or mirror polished? ;D



As to that 1/4 -36..... I'd be happy if we could change it to 1/4-28 , and the same on part #20, the steam chest
then the inlet and outlet would have the same thread. (As I am having no luck sourcing a 1/4 - 36 ME tap locally....)

Opinions?

Joe


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 8, 2011)

Hi all, Heads are all machined ,will sand and polished in the next day or two.It has been a real battle for me .but I have learned alot. As I said I have not had any training ,but high school metal shop. Tell later Dale


----------



## chrispare (Oct 8, 2011)

I everyone would like to pm me thier mailing address I will put a list togeather and give it to everyone.

thanks 
     Chris


----------



## warranator (Oct 9, 2011)

Can someone tell me which way the motor runs cw or anti cw. Was thinking of cutting a thread on the crank pin and tapping the crank and screwing them together instead of pressing. Making the 2 parts on a cnc would guarantee they would screw together parallel. Any thoughts?


----------



## maverick (Oct 9, 2011)

The pin will have to have a shoulder to register with a counterbore in the crank.
It shouldn't matter which direction it rotates if the thread is tightened with a bit of loctite.


----------



## warranator (Oct 9, 2011)

Yeah my thoughts were the same. Will write the program tonight and should start in the morning. Will post a video when it is up and running.


----------



## SBWHART (Oct 10, 2011)

Direction of rotation is governed by which side of the centre line the pin is in the crank, as drawn it will go clockwise.

As aside if you swap the air feed over to the exhoust it will also run in reverse, but slightly slower.

Stew


----------



## warranator (Oct 10, 2011)

Can someone give me the exact size of the bearing id for the crank shaft. Thought I saw it some where in this thread but cannot find it. I can turn the shaft to a precise size so I would like to do it right so we have no slop and not to tight. 

Also the crank pin I am turning to 6.35mm as I read in an earlier post the holes for the conrods were getting reamed a bee's dick bigger than 6.35mm. Ok with this.

Part is just about fully programmed and proto made from brass.


----------



## Path (Oct 10, 2011)

warranator  said:
			
		

> Can someone give me the exact size of the bearing id for the crank shaft. Thought I saw it some where in this thread but cannot find it. I can turn the shaft to a precise size so I would like to do it right so we have no slop and not to tight.




Try thread number 137 and drawing 3013.

Also check thread 134 and 136 item #9.
I suspect that the ID is .375 but hope that Chris could tell us the brand of bearings then we could check the tolerances.

I would like to see 9.535 that we we can remove material if necessary. 
Or any possibility of getting a bearing??


Pat


----------



## chrispare (Oct 11, 2011)

the bearing inside is .375 in
It is made by KML 1604-zz


----------



## warranator (Oct 11, 2011)

As promised here is a video of the crank shaft being machined out of brass so you can see what is happening, of course the real ones will be made out of steel but I will be using coolant which will obstruct view. Also some pics.

http://photobucket.com/teambuildradial

Use this link for video

http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums...on=view&current=video-2011-10-12-10-33-01.mp4


----------



## Path (Oct 12, 2011)

Wow .... now that's nice!  


Thanks for sharing,

Pat


----------



## pcw (Oct 12, 2011)

that is a great video. i am just little bit jaleous now.
Pascal


----------



## maverick (Oct 13, 2011)

URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/256/1000113v.jpg/]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/URL]

 That is a bunch of con-rods. A few more bushings then on to the flywheels.

 Mike


----------



## Path (Oct 13, 2011)

Looking good .... :bow:

I guess I should get some photos of my cylinders just to keep up
with the rest of the team! I have 16 that are ready for the holes/tubes and 
outside contour... then the liners and pistons.

Will try to get pictures today/tomorrow.

I will be using 3mm -.5 pitch for the top threads ... okay  


Pat


----------



## warranator (Oct 13, 2011)

And then it was steel. Made 15 all up. Still need to do the crank pin and the crank returns. 

Maverick: I think I read some where you were reaming the big end of the conrod to 6mm? If so I will turn the crank pins to 5.99mm.


----------



## maverick (Oct 14, 2011)

Warranator,
  The big end was reamed .251 and is slightly undersize. A .250 pin is a nice sliding fit
 and a .251 won't fit. I recommend making the throw .2500. The small end was reamed 
 .158 and seems undersize as well. I guess the bronze is not very free cutting. The cranks
 look great and the vid was fun to watch.

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 14, 2011)

a picture


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 14, 2011)

another picture


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi Parts 3,4,5 are all done and ready to be mailed. When I get the addresses I will mail them . Dale


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 16, 2011)

Parts for engine # 3,4,5


----------



## chrispare (Oct 16, 2011)

Looking good fellas.

Please remember to PM ME YOUR ADDRESS ( for mailing the parts)
thank you to those that have already.


----------



## maverick (Oct 17, 2011)

Dale, Those heads look great. It's amazing how big the pile of parts is
 for this build.

  Regards,
  Mike


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 17, 2011)

Thanks Mike appreciate the comment. Dale


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 17, 2011)

Chris Is there a gaskit that needs to be made for this head ? If so please let me know. Thanks Dale


----------



## DTANNER (Oct 17, 2011)

Hey Path,

I need to get that crankcase drawing from you did you send it this week end. I am in the shop atm and can start working on them if I can get another copy of it. I looked this morning and there was nothing there let me know which address that you are sending it to I may be looking at the wrong email.

That you for your time in this matter.

Dan tanner


----------



## pcw (Oct 17, 2011)

ordered the domenuts needed for the engine today. still waiting on my brass for the tag.
Pascal


----------



## Path (Oct 17, 2011)

DTANNER  said:
			
		

> I need to get that crankcase drawing from you did you send it this week end. I am in the shop atm and can start working on them if I can get another copy of it. I looked this morning and there was nothing there let me know which address that you are sending it to I may be looking at the wrong email.
> 
> Dan tanner



Dan ...

I've been sending them to [email protected] as requested in your email dated 9/18/11.
So far you should have 4 emails dated 9/18/11, 9/20/11, 9/20/11 and 10/13/11.

If you can't find them let me know I'll be glad to resend them ...


Pat


----------



## warranator (Oct 20, 2011)

Crank shafts done plus a few extra's.


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 20, 2011)

Boy they look great !Can hardly wait too see every thing all put together.Wonderful job.Dale


----------



## chrispare (Oct 20, 2011)

they look pretty good..

Im just waiting for one more address then ill pm you all the list.


----------



## warranator (Oct 20, 2011)

Crank return proto in brass done on the CNC.


----------



## Path (Oct 21, 2011)

Warranator,

Really looks nice! :bow: :bow:

Have any pictures or action on the return crank?


Pat


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 21, 2011)

Looks great ! Very very nice . Dale


----------



## warranator (Oct 21, 2011)

Will post a video next week of the return crank being machined.

I have question: Does the return crank and the crank line up when they fit together? Are the 2 shafts 4.17mm (return crank) and the 9.525mm (main crank shaft) supposed to be in line with each other when put together? If they are supposed to line up then I need to adjust the part so they match up as I don't think they do, I only looked by eye but it looks out.


----------



## SBWHART (Oct 21, 2011)

The main crank drives the return crank, the position of the flats on the main crank and the little drive pin on the return crank is important as this governs the timing of the engine, the drive pin is slightly off set, this is shown on my drawings.

Stew


----------



## warranator (Oct 21, 2011)

Sorry realised I put 4.17 instead of 7.17mm in previous post.

Ok.....I understand how critical the position of the slot and the little drive pin are on the return crank and they are spot on. What I am asking is: The centre line between the 2 shafts 7.17mm (return crank) and the 9.525mm (main crank), must they be in line? Not sure if you can see in the pick but they don't seem to be in line.


----------



## Path (Oct 21, 2011)

warranator  said:
			
		

> I have question: Does the return crank and the crank line up when they fit together? Are the 2 shafts 4.17mm (return crank) and the 9.525mm (main crank shaft) supposed to be in line with each other when put together? If they are supposed to line up then I need to adjust the part so they match up as I don't think they do, I only looked by eye but it looks out.



Warranator,

I hope you are referring to the 7.14mm dimension (instead of 4.17mm, which I can't find)! ;D

There is an interference issue with the Return Crank Slot and the Crank.

See post #136. Repeated here:

_The Crank ...
It doesn't line up with the Return Crank slot. Just a tad lower ... maybe not a big deal if all other parts are right on ... but if not built in our favor it might have to be slimmed down at the slot. We'll see._

When the rest of the assembly is assembled the Center Line of the Crank (bearing shaft) and the Return Crank Shaft (7.14mm) will be in line.

The issue is that the slotted shaft (6.35mm) will not seat in the Return Crank slot. That because the Center Line offset is not quite enough.
How much interference will depend on all the other actual center lines.

My thought on the solution is to leave your parts as is and let the team fix the issue themselves since they will know exactly how much material needs to be removed at the flat end of the Crank Shaft. I would use a 4 jaw chuck and turn it down until it fit ... but not disturbing the flats.


Now a question for you ...

In the picture of the Return Crank ... it looks like the bottom of the slot is not at the perimeter of the 7.14mm shaft ... or is it?


It's late .. I hope I have answered your question .. if not I can go into more detail tomorrow.



Pat H.


----------



## warranator (Oct 21, 2011)

No the slot is not at the perimeter of the 7.14 slot. This is what I was wondering. I could modify the bottom of the return crank slot radius so they both fit perfect. 
I would rather modify my part( the return crank slot) so they fit, I have not started producing the parts yet only the proto out of brass. I can make the slot deeper towards the 7.17mm dia shaft, not widen the slot just deeper. 
Will this be ok?


----------



## SBWHART (Oct 21, 2011)

> No the slot is not at the perimeter of the 7.14 slot. This is what I was wondering. I could modify the bottom of the return crank slot radius so they both fit perfect.



I think this is what I did, just squared the slot off a bit with a file.

They should be on the same centre line.

Stew


----------



## Path (Oct 21, 2011)

I would not make the slot any deeper than what the print calls for. The bottom should be on the same plane 
as the 7.14 shaft.

But it would make it easier if you could square the radius a little.
If using an end mill ... square it up with a 3mm. The Crank Shaft will fit
better and not so much filing. Also I would not try for a perfect fit ... there are lot of other parts
that will change the center line of these parts.

That's my thought .. but it is up to you as they are your parts. 

Those Return Cranks really look nice ... anxious to see how they are made .... 

Pat


----------



## maverick (Oct 21, 2011)

That crank and crank return are too nice to put inside where they won't show.


----------



## warranator (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks Maverick. I will square the radius at the bottom with an end mill mounted in the x axis live tool, don't know why I didn't think of this in the first place.


----------



## joe d (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi 

Well, with a minor detour to clean a bunch of silt off the shop floor (recent downpour overwhelmed the storm drains, I had 
6" of well silted water in the shop, at least it drained quickly afterwards, but I'll be sweeping up dust for the next 10 years I think)
got done the steam chests;

Turned, bored, parted off, on the rotary table for the hole circle, drilled and tapped the outlet hole in the mill.






The hole for the outlet is tapped 1/4 - 28 NF, I had asked earlier if anybody would object to this, nobody said no, so there you are!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## maverick (Oct 25, 2011)

They look great Joe, quite a pile of parts. I think 1/4-28 is just fine. A 36 pitch would be too fussy

 and the slightly smaller potential ID will not even be noticed. As for my bit, the con rods are finished

 and the collets are in process. I'll post some pics of the proposed engraving so I can get an idea 

 of what everyone thinks.


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 25, 2011)

Looks great Joe  Ever thing is looking so good on this build , am glad to be a part of this . Dale                                                   Any info on the addresses yet ?


----------



## Path (Oct 25, 2011)

Joe,

Great looking parts.

This team build is coming along very nice.  

Hope you can get your shop back into shape.

Pat


----------



## chrispare (Oct 25, 2011)

I have all addresses but dtanner.
If you like I will mail the list out and send his when I get it,
Yah thats what ill do pms be sent soon


----------



## chrispare (Oct 25, 2011)

Did i miss anyone???


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi who are we to send the extra motor parts to .The one to be sold .Thanks Dale


----------



## warranator (Oct 26, 2011)

All parts finished. 
I made the 3mm pin for the crank return out of 316 Stainless steel. Milled the slot out as far as it could go without touching the 7.14mm shaft but the crank still doesn't quite line up so the crank pin will have to be filed slightly, if I had foreseen this I would have milled the crank pin when I was making them but it is not a huge issue. 
Really enjoyed being a part of this build, looking forward to receiving the parts so I can assemble the whole motor and looking forward to the next team build also. 











Here is the video of the crank return getting machined out of brass.

http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums...d/?action=view&current=Pottycrankreturn-1.mp4


----------



## Path (Oct 26, 2011)

Nice Job ... :bow: :bow:


Pat


----------



## warranator (Oct 26, 2011)

Just wanted to say all the other parts shown in this thread look great. I can appreciate parts made old school way and have had my fair share of making parts that way before I new how to program CNC machines.

Will start posting parts next week Wednesday.


----------



## pcw (Oct 26, 2011)

ty for the adress list. i will start sending out bases and screws somewhere during next week.


----------



## chrispare (Oct 26, 2011)

Unless someone has a beter Idea, Ship the tenth part to me and I will assemble the motor. Then will send it to either the One wh will attend the most shows or we ill just auction it off and I will ship.

OR any other idea??


chris


----------



## warranator (Oct 26, 2011)

That suites me fine.


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 26, 2011)

Fine with me too. Dale


----------



## Path (Oct 26, 2011)

Chris,

Sounds like a good plan. 


By the way, if you have sent out the addresses via email I have not yet received them.


Pat


----------



## t_ottoboni (Oct 28, 2011)

Just got a few parts done:
10 Steam chest cover
15 Cylinder Liners

Will post pics soon!

Next: 15 Cylinders and 15 Pistons ;D


----------



## maverick (Oct 28, 2011)

Tarik,
  Glad to see you're making good progress, I've got quite a pile of parts built also.
  These motors we are building should be very nice.

  Regards,
  Mike


----------



## chrispare (Oct 31, 2011)

Ok so November is upon us, Are we ready to mail out??

How is the progress? 

chris


----------



## pcw (Oct 31, 2011)

i got wood and got screwed so yes i will be sending them out soon.
still nowt on the plaques though  had the being engraved by a friend, but he messed them up somehow so i have to make new ones


----------



## Path (Nov 1, 2011)

The Cylinders are almost done ... need to machine the 10 degree slope and clean up a bit.

Now about the pistons ... I would like to make them out of something other than Cast Iron.
Cast Iron is so messy, I was able to clean the lathe but would not like it in my CNC mill.

What would be a good alternative? 12L14, Bronze or maybe Aluminum or even 303. 8)

Should be able to get them out next week.  

*Chris* ... got the addresses ... thanks. Who is making item #8 the Gudgion?



Pat


----------



## chrispare (Nov 1, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> The Cylinders are almost done ... need to machine the 10 degree slope and clean up a bit.
> 
> Now about the pistons ... I would like to make them out of something other than Cast Iron.
> Cast Iron is so messy, I was able to clean the lathe but would not like it in my CNC mill.
> ...



I take it that you are refering to the pin that holdes the piston to the rods?
It was over looked on my part so if you wanted to do them with the pistons ?


----------



## bezalel2000 (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi Pat



			
				Path  said:
			
		

> Now about the pistons ... I would like to make them out of something other than Cast Iron.
> Cast Iron is so messy, I was able to clean the lathe but would not like it in my CNC mill.
> 
> What would be a good alternative? Pat



you could give A thought to using ZA27 Alloy for the pistons - excelant low friction bearing on steel. 

Bez


----------



## Path (Nov 1, 2011)

*Chris ...*

Sure ... I will make 15 for the 5 sets (Cylinders, Liners and Pistons). 

The balance ... hopefully T_Ottoboni will make. 

*Bez ...*

Thanks for the suggestion.
AZ27 really looks to be much better. But so far I haven't been able to find a source.
I did find some ingots but I don't do castings! : :


A friend of mine says Aluminum will work just fine for this application, but I 
think I will won't use that. I'll see if I have enough 12L14 or Bronze since I have both in stock.


Pat


----------



## Path (Nov 1, 2011)

*Mike ...*


Did you ream the 4mm hole for the Con Rods?

I'm making the Wrist Pin (#8). I'm thinking about getting some 4mm Drill Rod (A2) which 
has a tolerance of .013mm.

Pat


----------



## maverick (Nov 1, 2011)

I did ream the hole 4mm which is .1575 in. A .157 gage pin fits nice and smooth, a .158 pin will not fit.

 I have no 4mm pins or drill rod to check the fit. I can send your set of rods to you to check the fit if you

 want. I'm busy with customers work at the moment and hope to

 get to the flywheels by the end of the week. 

 Regards,
 Mike


----------



## Path (Nov 1, 2011)

Mike ..

That would be great.  

I guess you have my address.

Thanks,

Pat


----------



## bezalel2000 (Nov 2, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> *Chris ...*
> 
> *Bez ...*
> 
> ...



Hi Pat

Wish I could find someone round here that would sell me a couple of ingots of ZA27.
a 700 kg pallet is the smallest batch on offer.

So I have to mix my own. At least I know whats in the brew  :big:

Bez


----------



## Path (Nov 3, 2011)

*Stew ...*

I am almost finished with the Cylinder assembly   and started looking at the Piston/Con Rod assembly. 

It looks like the Con Rods will not fit into the Piston  ??? . The 9.46mm square and the 3mm radius cause an interference.

In looking at your build log reply #112 picture 3 ... it looks like the square is larger and the radius is outside the square.

Can you take look and maybe comment on what was changed? 

My thoughts would be to increase the 9.46 square a little (the amount to be determined) and machine a radius at the four corners ... in short 
follow the picture. 

*T_ottonic* ... I would hold off making your Pistons until this is resolved. 


Thanks Stew  


Pat


----------



## SBWHART (Nov 3, 2011)

OK Pat got your message I'll have a look through my stuff, and get back.

Stew


----------



## SBWHART (Nov 3, 2011)

Ok Pat had a look through my stuff and rewound my memory banks.

It looks like I did what you are suggesting :-



> My thoughts would be to increase the 9.46 square a little (the amount to be determined) and machine a radius at the four corners ... in short
> follow the picture.














I can also remember adding a small radius to the end of the con rods.

I tend to work to a fit and don't always capture what I did, for a one off this won't matter but for a multiple build it does:- ask Mr Ford.

Hope this helps

Bin following along and its a real impressive what you guys are doing.

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Stew


----------



## maverick (Nov 3, 2011)

Pat, A set of con rods are going out to you today.


----------



## Path (Nov 3, 2011)

*Stew ...*

Thanks for your input ... I also don't always document my project changes! ;D

I will do a few drawings changes to see what needs to be done ... getting 
my Con Rods in a few days. That way I will be able to test them out.


*Mike ...*

Thanks for sending them ... looking forward to trying them out. 


Pat


----------



## warranator (Nov 3, 2011)

Is it possible to get an update on what parts have been made and what we are waiting for.


----------



## t_ottoboni (Nov 3, 2011)

warranator  said:
			
		

> Is it possible to get an update on what parts have been made and what we are waiting for.



I have:
10 Steam chest cover - 100% complete
15 Cylinder Liners - 100% complete
15 Cylinders - 60% complete
15 Pistons - 20% complete (production halted for plan review)


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 3, 2011)

Parts 3-4-5 Are done , Plan on mailing tommorw or monday. Dale


----------



## Path (Nov 3, 2011)

*t_ottoboni ...*

Wow you are really moving along. 8)

What material are you using for the pistons. I'm still undecided. :-\

I've made some progress on the Piston / Con Rods issue. Once I get Con Rods I will 
make a few Pistons to see if the assembly goes together without too much filing. 
Hopefully the issue will be resolved early next week. 

Can you pick up the Wrist Pin ... need 15 but should be easy to make? I'll be doing 15 to match my 15
Pistons.


Pat


----------



## warranator (Nov 3, 2011)

10 crank shaft 100%
10 return crank 100%

Was supposed to mail them on Wednesday just past but will mail on Monday 7 November.


----------



## t_ottoboni (Nov 3, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> *t_ottoboni ...*
> 
> Wow you are really moving along. 8)
> 
> ...



I was planning to use cast iron for the pistons, the same i used for the liners. Is there any problem using the same material for both? If so, I think I could use aluminum or brass (maybe fosforous bronze too).
For the wrist pin, is it ok if i use shafts scavenged from old printers? They would be like 3.95mm, so they'll slide nicely in reamed holes in the con rods.


----------



## warranator (Nov 3, 2011)

I would prefer aluminium pistons. The shafts from the old printers would probably work quite well.


----------



## maverick (Nov 3, 2011)

10 sets connecting rods - 100 % complete
 10 collets - 40 % done
 10 flywheels - material cut up

  Have been busy with 2 large projects for work, one ships tomorrow morning and the other Monday.
  Will finish the collets then start on flywheels. I don't want my machining to drag into the holidays 
  as there are gifts to make for family, including a new grandson. Now I just need some ideas, got any?


----------



## joe d (Nov 4, 2011)

10 steam chests: 100% done
  10 port flanges:  material on the bench
  10 orbital valves: did 4 in steel, turned out like crap, so switched and am now doing them in cast
              iron, 1 done, looking way better

There will be a small delay, as I am leaving town tonight for 7 days....

Joe


----------



## Path (Nov 4, 2011)

t_ottoboni  said:
			
		

> I was planning to use cast iron for the pistons, the same i used for the liners. Is there any problem using the same material for both? If so, I think I could use aluminum or brass (maybe fosforous bronze too).
> For the wrist pin, is it ok if i use shafts scavenged from old printers? They would be like 3.95mm, so they'll slide nicely in reamed holes in the con rods.



Actually Cast Iron is called out for the Liner and Piston, I guess they make a good combination. I'm only changing the Piston material due to the mess the Cast Iron causes. I also scavenge parts from discarded machines ... not knowing what the material is ... you will have to decide. The size, however (3.95mm), may be a problem. A bit loose for the Con Rods and pin won't want to stay in the Piston it may rub against the Liner. You could ream the Piston to 3.95mm or maybe a little Loctite applied during final assemble. In any event try it out and see what works. 


Pat


----------



## chrispare (Nov 4, 2011)

I am about 80% on the bearing case.

Does anyone know what is suppose to go into the m5 hole. I am assumine that it is for oiling or a vent. Any ideas?


----------



## SBWHART (Nov 4, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> Does anyone know what is suppose to go into the m5 hole. I am assumine that it is for oiling or a vent. Any ideas?



Its for oiling, I made a small oiling cup just to tidy things off.

I also made a small brass tube to screw into the exhaust, again just to tidy things up.

I'll have a look to see if i've got a picture, my engines packed up ready to go to London for an exhibition.

Stew

Her you go







You can see the bits I added.

Stew


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 4, 2011)

Thats the frist picture of our build that i've seen .Sure looks nice ! Thanks Dale


----------



## Path (Nov 4, 2011)

Thought I would post a few pictures ...


Here is where it all started ... 2" x 8' Aluminum stock ... cut so that I could make 3 cylinders at time.






Turned it down to about 1.8" then cut in 3 pieces (this should look familiar see Stew's build log).





Here are 18 future Cylinders 3 extras





All 18 with the .75" hole for the Liner





Machining the fins OD using a cutoff blade ... last cut .002 or less. Using a maderal.







Jumping ahead a little. This chunk of Aluminum was milled down about .1" while in the vise.
This insures that the Cylinders are perpendicular to the spindle. The bottom was machine
on the lathe so it is also be perpendicular the hole. The Co-axial was used to find the center to set
G54, G55 and G56 XY locations on the CNC. The XY was adjusted for zero deflection while the 
spindle was turning at about 50 RPMs. Once done the tops caps were installed to provide the hold down
force while machining the top sides. This operation Drilled, Taped and formed the rectangular top.






Ready to push that start button ...





After about 4 minutes this is what you get ...






To be continued ... I have about 6 more pictures that I will post later.


Pat


----------



## Path (Nov 5, 2011)

Continuing on ...


After repeating it 6 times I have all 16 ... if you look carefully you can see that I lost 2 Cylinders to 
dumb mistakes. Now I have only 1 spare. :





I repeated the process for the bottom. Using a different fixture.





Here all 16 ready for the Liners.






Measured each Cylinder and turned down the Liners OD so that I would have about a .001" - .002" interference fit.





I heated the Cylinder just enough so that the Liner would drop in ... if not I added a little pressure.  
Using Loctite 680 for sure tight fit.





Another fixture to mill the 10 degree slope ...





Finally these only need a little dressing and they are ready to go. 






Each Cylinder was then honed for a smooth finish.

That's it for now. Hope to get the Pistons done early next week.


Pat


----------



## SBWHART (Nov 5, 2011)

Wow Pat that was a neat bit of machining, I always marvel at the capability of CNC and the guys who work them.

Stew


----------



## maverick (Nov 6, 2011)

Pat, those cylinders look great! It's quite impressive how much work everyone has been doing on this build. What kind of mill 

 did you use to profile the cylinders? Nice fixturing also.


----------



## Path (Nov 6, 2011)

*Stew ...*

Thanks ... Yes CNC is nice to work with  , but I still do a lot with the manual.

*Mike ...*

Thanks... I have a Haas TM-2p with Rigid Taping, Wired for 4th axis, high flow cooling pump, programmable nozzle and 10 tool ATC.
Sure would like to get the 4 axis ... maybe someday.
I'm thinking I might use it for pistons ... we'll see.


Now the good stuff ...

Received your con-rods ... fantastic job :bow:. Looks like they went for a nice tumble. Very nice finish. Thm:

I ordered and received some 4mm drill rod. After a little rod finishing they fit nicely.
With a little run in they will work perfect.

I have a plan for the pistons ... hope to get to it Monday. Just need to figure out a holding method.
Then do a few samples to see how the Con-Rods will fit. Then ... make them.

Will keep you posted...

*Again ... Thanks guys.*  


Pat


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 7, 2011)

Parts 3-4-5 were mailed today . Dale


----------



## Path (Nov 7, 2011)

Dale,

Looking forward to getting them.

Thanks,

Pat


----------



## warranator (Nov 8, 2011)

Yes also looking forward to getting them. 

Crank shaft and crank return were posted today except for Otoboni, I have sent him a pm with regards to his address.


----------



## Path (Nov 9, 2011)

*Dale*,
Got your parts today ... very nice. 

Fits perfect. Thm:

Nice touch with the extra tubing and a picture of the builder (I guess :big.

Thanks, 

Pat


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks Pat I am not sure how the tubing is going to fit so I thought it would be wise to include extra. That was some shipping they were mailed monday afternoon . Dale


----------



## pcw (Nov 11, 2011)

got the heads and tubing today. looks very nice. ty Dale
Pascal


----------



## Path (Nov 11, 2011)

*About the Piston and Con Rods ....*



			
				Path  said:
			
		

> *Stew ...*
> ....
> My thoughts would be to increase the 9.46 square a little (the amount to be determined) and machine a radius at the four corners ... in short
> follow the picture.
> ....



See reply #268 for additional information.

I was able to test the Piston and Con Rods today and I have changed the 9.46mm square hole to 9.86mm with a 1.50mm radius.
This allows a little wiggle room for the Con Rods. So far no other changes have been made for that assembly.

However, you may need to file a small radius on the Con Rods during assemble for a better fit due to varying part dimensions. You'll have to decide that.
I haven't tested at the assembly level yet, but it should work. It looks good using the CAD.

*T-ottoboni (or anyone else)* ... If you like I can send a new Piston Drawing #3009 Rev B.


I started to build a fixture to machine the 9.86 hole and Wrist Pin hole for the Piston ... hope to have it mid week.  


Pat


----------



## t_ottoboni (Nov 11, 2011)

Path, can you e-mail me the new drawings?
Thanks a lot!


----------



## Path (Nov 12, 2011)

On its way  


Pat


----------



## maverick (Nov 12, 2011)

Pat, Please send the updated piston drawing, I may be able to add the radius on the rest of the conrods.

 Work on the flywheels is going slow but steady.


----------



## Path (Nov 12, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> Pat, Please send the updated piston drawing, I may be able to add the radius on the rest of the conrods.
> 
> ...




Will do ... expect it tomorrow (Sunday as I'm out the door).

I haven't changed the Con Rods drawing as it may not be necessary. Unless you want me too ... then I will!  

Pat


----------



## maverick (Nov 12, 2011)

Pat,
 One more item, the angle on the collet and flywheel is 10 degrees included on Stew's drawing
 and 10 degrees per side on the redraw. I'm going to make the parts 10 degrees included and we 
 can touch up the drawing later.


----------



## Path (Nov 13, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> Pat,
> One more item, the angle on the collet and flywheel is 10 degrees included on Stew's drawing
> and 10 degrees per side on the redraw. I'm going to make the parts 10 degrees included and we
> can touch up the drawing later.



Good catch ... sending the drawings: Piston, Collet and Flywheel. 


Thanks

Pat


----------



## maverick (Nov 13, 2011)

Pat, Thanks for the drawings. Collets are finished, more work needed on the flywheels. Where do the con rods need radiused 
 to clear the pistons?


----------



## Path (Nov 14, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> Pat, Thanks for the drawings. Collets are finished, more work needed on the flywheels. Where do the con rods need radiused
> to clear the pistons?



Actually, they fit with the changes made to the Piston. 
I'm inclined to leave it up to the builder if a radius is needed. I'll know more in the next few
days. But we may not know for sure until we try to assemble the engine. 

Will keep you posted.

Thanks,

Pat


----------



## warranator (Nov 15, 2011)

Ottoboni, your parts were posted on Monday.


----------



## chrispare (Nov 16, 2011)

So I am just about done here, How are we doing on the Nov deadline?

The only one I havent seen any report on is Dtanner (how you doing)

Cant wait to see everyons pieces.


----------



## pcw (Nov 17, 2011)

i try my best to send all my stuff out. wooden bases, the screws the nuts and threaded rod. the engraver messed up the brass plaques so they wont be included in the first shippings but i will send them out later on if thats ok with everyone.
pascal


----------



## t_ottoboni (Nov 17, 2011)

Warranator
Thanks a lot! 

Pascal
That's OK to me if you take a little longer to ship all together: it will save you on shipping costs


I'm trying my best to meet the deadline but with so many tests at the end of this semester I may not be able to finish in november. If so, sure I'll finish and ship everything by december.


----------



## maverick (Nov 17, 2011)

Parts update,
 Con rods - complete
 collets - complete 
 flywheels - rough turned
 Crankshft nut - not started

 Warranator, What 8mm thread pitch is on the crank, 1.00 or 1.25? 
 I'm making the nuts last so no hurry.


----------



## Path (Nov 17, 2011)

Cylinders and Liners ... done. 

By the way ... the holes for the tubes are about .120" but the tubes OD are 
.125" (as expected) I opened mine up to .125" so now they slip through.
Should do them all that way or leave it to the builders? It's very easy to do just looking for 
a preference. ??? ???

Pistons ... just haven't figured out the holding fixture yet. :-\
Wrist Pin ... have material just need to do it. No problem. 


Will meet the deadline ... looking to finish sooner.  


Pat


----------



## warranator (Nov 17, 2011)

Maverick: You should receive the crank in time to make the nuts but if not the thread is a standard M8x1.25mm.

Dalem9: Received your parts in the mail yesterday, very nice job ;D


----------



## maverick (Nov 18, 2011)

Warranator: Received the crank, it looks great. The test nut I made fits fine so it's off to
 the lathe to make the real ones.

 To PCW and t_ottoboni: If it would save you money on the shipping bill, Send your parts to me
 and I will distribute them along with My parts. Sorry warranator, I thought of this too late to include you.


----------



## joe d (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi guys

Got the orbital valves done, leaves me just the port flanges to do, so I don't anticipate 
any problems finishing before the end of the month...







I received Dale's parts, they look really good!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## warranator (Nov 18, 2011)

Nice work Joe.


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 20, 2011)

Hi All How is this engine going to be lubricated. Thanks Dale


----------



## SBWHART (Nov 20, 2011)

It just needs a few squirts of oil into the crank case, not too much as you get an hydraulic lock, and a little between the bearings again not too much.

Stew


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks Stew Dale


----------



## joe d (Nov 22, 2011)

A query to whoever knows....

 I'm a little lost trying to figure out what to do with the mounting holes in the port flanges 
(part No 21): the drawing calls out a countersink for a 2mm flat head screw 8BA clearance,
I'm figuring that this attaches directly to the crankcase, where the presumably mating holes
are called out as M2. ???

So: what is the size of the clearance hole actually needed? (and if it is M? or ?BA could somebody
PLEASE translate that to an actual measurement? It would also be good to know what is the 
angle of the countersink required  for these new to me fasteners)

Cheers, Joe


----------



## maverick (Nov 22, 2011)

Joe,
 A good clearance size for the 2mm screw is 2.1mm to 2.2mm, Countersink angle is 90 degrees
 and c'sink size is about 4.5 mm. The reference to 8BA is from Stew's original drawing.

 regards,
 Mike


----------



## joe d (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks, Mike!

Joe


----------



## warranator (Nov 23, 2011)

Has anyone else received the crank set? Has anyone else posted any parts out yet?


----------



## Path (Nov 23, 2011)

warranator  said:
			
		

> Has anyone else received the crank set? Has anyone else posted any parts out yet?



I got mine ... looking good. :bow:


Pat

By the way any comments.. ???


			
				Path  said:
			
		

> ... the holes for the tubes are about .120" but the tubes OD are
> .125" (as expected) I opened mine up to .125" so now they slip through.
> Should do them all that way or leave it to the builders? It's very easy to do just looking for
> a preference. ??? ???


----------



## warranator (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't mind opening mine up or you can do it if you are doing them anyway.


----------



## pcw (Nov 24, 2011)

warranator  said:
			
		

> Has anyone else received the crank set? Has anyone else posted any parts out yet?



yeah got the crank and return. looking very good.


----------



## maverick (Nov 24, 2011)

Got the crank and return, very nice job. I double checked the rods and found some burrs in the big end , a quick swipe with a reamer 
 and they fit great. Confirmed the fit of the collet and nut as well. Trying to finish the flywheels.

 Happy Thanksgiving all.
 Mike


----------



## chrispare (Nov 24, 2011)

I recieved my crank today and they look Great 

I am just puttung some finishing touches on the bearing cases and will then mail them next week.

Now I have been trying to contact dtanner with no luck. Has anyone heard from him??

Chris


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 24, 2011)

No Chris I have not heard from Tanner . Sure hope nothing has happen to him .Dale


----------



## warranator (Nov 24, 2011)

What was dtanner supposed to make? Maybe we can share his job out.


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 24, 2011)

I beleive the motor block . Dale


----------



## chrispare (Nov 27, 2011)

Yes he was to do the crankcase.


----------



## chrispare (Nov 29, 2011)

Well I have still not got a reply so as per a suggestion from another,

I am going to OPEN up the spot for the crankcase if someone out there would like to come aboard. (Unless someone already on the build has an objection)

If you would like to join please speak up now.


Chris


----------



## warranator (Nov 29, 2011)

I second this suggestion. If anybody out there is interested in making the crankcase for the 3 cylinder radial potty then please feel free to join our team build. As far as it looks this is the only part missing so you will come in at a good time knowing everything else has been made or being made.

Plans are in the download section on page 12.


----------



## joe d (Nov 30, 2011)

Got the crank set in the mail yesterday, looking good!

I have another question regarding the mounting screws for the port flange:
I have had exactly NO luck attempting to get a 90ocountersink
in the greater Montreal area... since the crankcases have not been made yet
can we change this to a 2-56, and I`ll include the screws with the flanges..

Joe


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 30, 2011)

Home from the u.p. . also have the crank set nice job . Dale


----------



## Path (Nov 30, 2011)

joe d  said:
			
		

> ....
> I have another question regarding the mounting screws for the port flange:
> I have had exactly NO luck attempting to get a 90ocountersink
> in the greater Montreal area... since the crankcases have not been made yet
> ...




Sounds like a plan.

Would the 2-56 have a head angle of 82 degrees and length of 1/4" ? 
McMaster Carr #91771A104



Pat


----------



## ninefinger (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi Chris,

I took a look at the drawings and I should be able to make the crankcase. My only question is - have the others mailed their parts out already? If so how does this work out for a late commer to the party?




			
				chrispare  said:
			
		

> If you would like to join please speak up now.
> 
> Chris


----------



## warranator (Nov 30, 2011)

I think only two people have sent out their parts (warranator and dale), would have to get confirmation from the other guys. I made a couple of extra parts so I have another set I could post out and I would think Dale has also got an extra set of his parts.


----------



## chrispare (Nov 30, 2011)

for the few that have already mailed out if a newcomer was to come in hopefully they would be able to make another. Hopefully they will chime in here


----------



## joe d (Nov 30, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> Would the 2-56 have a head angle of 82 degrees and length of 1/4" ?
> McMaster Carr #91771A104
> 
> Pat



I get mine from Microfasteners, but yes, those would be the dimensions. Any preference as to
stainless, black oxide, slotted head or phillips?

Haven't mailed any parts yet, not finished the flanges as I was awaiting a decision on the 
countersink. 

Joe


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 30, 2011)

Yes Chris I do have more Parts .Just let me know were to mail them when the time comes. Welcome Mike . Dale


----------



## joe d (Nov 30, 2011)

And a progress report

Here's the flange without counter sinks....






and what the steam chest, flange, and orbital valve look like all together:





Mike: welcome to the team!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 30, 2011)

Looks good Joe . Thanks Dale


----------



## ninefinger (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi guys,

Looking forward to joining this group - I just want to give DTanner a last chance to speak up and keep his spot. Meanwhile I don't mind getting prepared to make the crankcase. Can somebody tell me if the drawings on page 12 of the downloads are the same as what you are working from? I thought I read that PATH redid the drawings? If so can a copy be sent to me?

Thanks guys - looking forward to this (I was on the fence when you were organizing and BAM! next time I checked in all the spots were taken...too slow)

Mike


----------



## maverick (Dec 1, 2011)

Greetings Mike,
 That's very considerate of you to give DTanner a chance to respond, and I hope all is well with him. I'm sure the team is glad to
 have someone to make the crankcases. PATH did a great job of redrawing the original metric prints and they should be available
 from him. Welcome to the team, You can never have too many Mikes.

 Regards,
 Maverick 
 A.K.A. Mike


----------



## Path (Dec 1, 2011)

Mike R

 wEc1 to the team. 


PM me with your email address and I will send you all the drawings I have thus far.

More later  


Pat


----------



## warranator (Dec 1, 2011)

Welcome aboard Mike.

Nice job Joe.


----------



## Path (Dec 1, 2011)

*Joe,*
Very nice looking parts ... this is going to be one nice looking and operational engine. :bow:



			
				joe d  said:
			
		

> ....
> Any preference as to stainless, black oxide, slotted head or phillips?
> ....
> 
> Joe



I prefer SS phillips for the flange screw (that's because I have a bunch! )


*Update *... well I was hoping to get the pistons out today.
But my setup didn't work so I scrapped out 4 pistons at stage one. 
Couldn't even get off the ground. :wall:

So I'm resetting up and will try again :idea: ... this just can't be that hard. 


*Mike * your drawings will be emailed in a few hours, need to update them a little.


Pat


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi All,

Ok, I've received the drawings from PATH (excellent work Pat - very easy to read now), so I'm on the same page as you guys.

There is some discussion on changing the M2 screws that attach the port flange (21) to the crankcase to 2-56. I have no problem doing that.
PATH also suggested I *not* drill those holes and that everybody use the port flange as a drill guide as the tolerance for being out on a countersink is far less than if it were a simple shoulder. Opinions on leaving those three-M2 (now 2-56) holes undrilled / tapped? I will be doing the "portal view" operations on my CNC mill but that does not guarantee that I'm not off some small amount due to setup error (I'll need to get the center of the hole the port flange sit in) 

Just to let everyone know - I will do my best to work at a good pace on this but I'm expecting it to take me 2-3 weeks to complete, ie I may be using time off between Christmas and New years to finish up. Hopefully not and I'm done before then but I could end up travelling for work for a few days and that really eats into the shop time.

Mike


----------



## joe d (Dec 1, 2011)

Mike Ross  said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> 
> T
> ...



Mike:

I really like that idea, that way all the flanges will fit perfectly and it will look like I'm some sort of machinist! :big:

Cheers, Joe


----------



## dalem9 (Dec 1, 2011)

Sounds good to me Joe . Glad to have you come along for the ride . Dale


----------



## chrispare (Dec 1, 2011)

yes that all sounds good, and as for taking a few weeks to finnish well thats the least anyone could expect. So were a little off the hoped for completion date its not the end of the world.

Oh and welcome aboard,lets see if we can build a potty!

chris
(I will pm all your address too)


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 5, 2011)

Guys,

I wrote an e-mail to Daniel Tanner at his Yahoo address last week when I was looking to join. I received a response yesterday from his e-mail written by a friend of his. Rather than paraphrase here it is:

Mr. Ross,
My name is Robert, I am a close friend of Daniel and he provided me with the information needed to acess his account. He recently suffer a serious heart conditoin and was in the hospital for the past month. He is back at home and is doing well but it would be best to have someone else replace him. He said to let you know that he is extremely embarresd that he can not complete the project he was so looking forward to it. If there is anything else that I can do for you just sned and email to this address I will be checking it for him every few days.

Sincerely, 
Robert

Needless to say that I have responded that there is absolutely no cause for embarrassment and our thoughts are with him, wishing him a speedy recovery.

regards,

Mike


----------



## maverick (Dec 5, 2011)

Mike,
 Thanks for your efforts in contacting Mr. Tanner, it was a very nice gesture. I'm sure we all feel better
 knowing he is recovering and approves of be replaced. Once again, welcome to the team.

 Regards,
 the other Mike


----------



## Path (Dec 5, 2011)

*Mike R.*

Second the thanks for contacting him and for the information ... glad to hear that Dan is progressing well. Thm:

Hope that he will be part of a team in the future.


Pat


----------



## pcw (Dec 5, 2011)

make a good recovery 

so we still build a engine for Mr Tanner too? plus one extra for the guy that jumped in to replace Mr Tanner?


----------



## warranator (Dec 5, 2011)

Yeah, I am ok with that. Hope Daniel makes a full recovery.


----------



## chrispare (Dec 5, 2011)

ok rather than haveing to make an extra piece we can use the auction parts for Mike (if that makes it easier)
That way we can still send tanner the parts 

Is that a good Idea?

I do hope tanner recovers ok

Chris


----------



## dalem9 (Dec 5, 2011)

Chris Sounds good .So far every on has an extra part so we may be able to do both . Guess we will have to wait and see now everyone is doing on their parts and go from there. Thank everyone I am sure Tanner will be very happy . Dale


----------



## maverick (Dec 5, 2011)

Chris, That sound OK to me. I have extras of conrods and collets and have 12 flywheel blanks, although
 1 or 2 may turn into setup pieces. I will be away from the shop till sunday but will try to check in.

 Mike


----------



## warranator (Dec 5, 2011)

I made extra parts so I don't mind doing both. 

Chris I still need to send you the auction part that I forgot about.


----------



## joe d (Dec 5, 2011)

Sorry to hear of Daniel's troubles.

I have 11 of each of my parts, and I think that sending a set to Daniel would be a very nice thing to do indeed.

Joe


----------



## Path (Dec 5, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> ok rather than haveing to make an extra piece we can use the auction parts for Mike (if that makes it easier)
> That way we can still send tanner the parts
> 
> Is that a good Idea?
> ...




I like the idea of sending Tanner the auction piece.
Again hope for his speedy recovery.


Pat


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm ok with whatever is decided by everybody else and the team Captain.

I got started on making my parts. Here is the first batch of 5 crank case blanks after parting down most of the way and finishing the cut on the bandsaw.
I had to start from a round bar and machine it to hex as the local supplier did not have hex in stock and I didn't want to wait...
How many engines are being built anyways - I've lost track is it 10 or 11? I'll make my next batch 6 and hope I don't bugger one of them..

Mike


----------



## warranator (Dec 5, 2011)

Nice to see a start on these parts Mike. I am of the understanding that we originally were making 10 motors with one of them being an auction item but with Daniel we have pretty much all decided that we will make an extra one for him so it now makes it 11. I could be wrong so maybe we can get some clarification from the rest of the group.


----------



## chrispare (Dec 6, 2011)

It was originally 10 ,so now with the added one ite 11


----------



## joe d (Dec 8, 2011)

Hi Guys

with the exceptions of Mike Ross (need your address, Mike!) and Pascal (sent you a PM) 
 my parts went out in the mail this morning.

Joe


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 8, 2011)

Hi Joe,

I sent a PM to Chris Pare with my address - I will PM you my address separately too - I just don't have any of your addresses yet - but then again I don't have any finished pieces to send out either so no worries there...

I did get a bit of time in the shop last night and "hexified" (I think I just made up that word) a second chunk of round bar so I can take down that setup on the mill and move on to actually machining features on the blanks.

Here's a picture of the setup I was using to mill the bar into hex - I am a total amateur so this is the way I cam up with given the tools I have available - constructive criticism welcome BTW. This was for roughing - I then finished up with the fly cutter.

Mike


----------



## Path (Dec 8, 2011)

*Mike R*.


Nice start Thm: ... glad your posting pictures of your progress. Love those pictures. 

No criticism here. 

Are you following Stew's build?

Pat


----------



## chrispare (Dec 8, 2011)

sorry ive been buisy these last few days ill send all mikes address now.
Ok sent the list did you get it?

Mike your progress is great!

chris


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 8, 2011)

Got the address list thanks Chirs. 

Well I've probably scrapped one blank already but I'll use it as a setup piece for the required operations.  I'll describe how I screwed up later :
Just means I'll be making another one for me later...

Mike


----------



## Path (Dec 9, 2011)

Stew,

I'm matching the pistons to the cylinders and was wondering how tight of
a fit should they be.

Maybe a slip fit where just a little pushing is enough or tighter.

Maybe a drop fit where no push is required ... just drops though.

Anyway maybe you could give me some idea what kind of a fit for this engine.


Thanks,

Pat


----------



## SBWHART (Dec 9, 2011)

Pat

Maybe a slip fit where just a little pushing is enough  

Thats just the fit you want

I've been following the build along you guys are doing a superb Job

And its real nice of you to put an engine together for Tanner, it will cheer him up no end and help get him over his illness.

Stew


----------



## chrispare (Dec 9, 2011)

Ok I was going to make another piece for Tanner but my machine is down again 

So Hopefully noone has made the extra piece and well give him the auction motor (if thats ok)

Is everyone ok with that?

Also I have just recently started a new job that has stopped me from finishing my pieces,, I know we set the date for November and with the recent set backs I think we push that date to no longer than January (Mike if you need longer I understand)

What you'all think??


----------



## dalem9 (Dec 9, 2011)

THat is o.k. with me Chris . Dale


----------



## joe d (Dec 10, 2011)

Chris

I've already mailed my parts to D Tanner..... perhaps remind me what part you're making:
I could no doubt whip up a one off for myself, and you can still send one to Dan that way.

Joe


----------



## Path (Dec 11, 2011)

Okay ... parts are all made and I'm ready to send them. woohoo1

Since I made 5 set of Cylinders, Liners, Pistons and Wrist Pins I will be sending those to:

Chris     Qty 2 (one for him other for Auction or Tanner)
Mike Ross  Qty 1 (to help for fitting to Crankcase)
Maverick  Qty 1 (random selection).


and one for me. 


*Mike Ross* PM me (and Chris) your address.

I expect that these will go out Monday. 


Pat


----------



## chrispare (Dec 11, 2011)

When I get home to me computer I will send out a updated mailing list. 

Joe I am doing the bearing block, I will see If I can make one on my little lathe ( I have never used it, it's a old unimat I picked up. 
I will let you know if it works out.


----------



## Path (Dec 13, 2011)

Here is what I'm sending ... 







Each piston is matched to a cylinder as follows:

Using the picture above as a reference.

A set number (1-5) is on the liner at about 3 o'clock. All three cylinders in your set will have the same number.
The 3 pistons that belong to that set will have the same number on the inside skirt (the 20 degree cut).

There is a second number (1-3) on top of the cylinder at about 12 o'clock ... 
the matching piston will have the same number on its top.


In a few cases I found that some pistons are interchangeable, but during machining they were 
matched so I just followed through using that system.

This might help during your assembly. 

Later,

Pat


----------



## chrispare (Dec 13, 2011)

Hey they look great, cant wait to get this motor togeather!!


----------



## dalem9 (Dec 13, 2011)

Mike your parts #3-4-5 went out today . Thanks Dale


----------



## warranator (Dec 13, 2011)

Just my 2c worth. I think dalem9 and myself should have got preference over who gets sent the parts first as we have sent ours out already and they have been received. Not sure how it has been done in the past but that makes sense to me. I agree mikeross could do with a set to match up the crank case but then we should have been next in line. Just my 2c worth. If anyone thinks this post is out of line please speak up, this is my first team build and am not sure of the process.


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 13, 2011)

Well, some progress to report - good and bad and some questions...

Good.
My cnc converted mill is behaving quite nicely and lets me do some of these repetitive tasks quite nicely - just setup a stop on the vise, pop in the part and press go. So I've got the 4 attaching screw holes figured out, the 2 steam transfer holes and the cylinder hole so I can go into mass production on those - rinse and repeat 3 times per case.

Questions: the drawing calls up M3 holes for all the holes on the cylinder side of the case. 1) looking at Stew drawings the steam transfer holes are 3mm so that is what I'm going by 2)the threaded M3 holes - what thread pitch? I just looked in my tap set and I've got M3x0.5 and M3x0.6. Is this my choice and should I be supplying the hardware for these?

Bad.
the piece in the photo is scrap due to bone headed machining on my part and my lathe being crap (I know a poor machinist blames his tools blah blah blah) 
My tool post keeps moving on me no matter how tight I make it and I kept loosing track of where I was - so I ended up boring the inside too deep by quite a lot. You can just see in the picture the steam transfer holes breaking through 
So I need to tune up the lathe a bit before I do that operation again - I know what is wrong - just need to fix it.....

Next question - for the 0.375" hole on the back of the case - any opinions on the tolerance for it? I ask cause I have a reamer that is supposed to be 0.375 but when I used it I ended up with a hole closer to .378" Is this operator error? I had left quite a bit of material there - maybe too much? The alternative is I use a boring bar to sneak up on the diameter but that will take a lot longer (BTW I am planning on doing this hole and the front 1.250" hole in the same setup for concentricity purposes.)

Thanks guys,

Mike


----------



## Path (Dec 13, 2011)

Warren

Actually, I think you made a good point. 

Last time (TB 4) we didn't have two people making the same part so when I was done I just sent everyone their parts.

But in this case when I was finished, I thought about who to send to ... ???
I thought the Mike could use a set since the crankcase is critical for mounting. We agree.

After that ... well I put all the names in a jar and had my wife pull them ... thought that would be fair. 8)

Since Chris name came up I put him down next.

dalem9 was next ... (we agree) oops Maverick was next << Edit

So I had good intentions ... just missed by one.


However ... I still have a chance to make good. I went to the Post Office on Monday but it was just too crowded. Tuesday couldn't get there,
I will try again Wednesday (tomorrow). I can take one of the two for Chris ( T_ottoboni would send the extra) and send it to you ... I have no problem doing that ....   

Just need some input ...




Pat


----------



## Path (Dec 13, 2011)

Mike Ross  said:
			
		

> ....
> Questions: the drawing calls up M3 holes for all the holes on the cylinder side of the case. 1) looking at Stew drawings the steam transfer holes are 3mm so that is what I'm going by 2)the threaded M3 holes - what thread pitch? I just looked in my tap set and I've got M3x0.5 and M3x0.6. Is this my choice and should I be supplying the hardware for these?
> 
> .....
> ...




In my very *quick* look it seems that M3x 0.5 is the one I can find the easiest ... but don't know about other parts of the world.
As far as I know pcw is providing the screws etc. 

*Oh forgot to mention ... I used 0.5 for the cylinder! <<<edit*  

As far as the diameter of the .375 hole ... joe_d is making the part (port flange dia is given .3752") goes into that hole, maybe he can get a measurement of his to you or for that matter anyone who has one. I gave the hole size of .3758" just so it would fit. So we are close, I would think that the .378" would work. 


As far as why is the reamer cutting a .378" hole?
What are you using to ream (mill, lathe) and what is the hole size prior to the reaming, finally speed of reamer?
Another thing ... are you reaming right after the drilling or coming back later to re-locate the hole then reaming?


By the way the 1.250" the bearing housing is also 1.250" so maybe a tad larger would in order! 



Good questions ... answer these now will prevent problems later.  


Pat


----------



## joe d (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi

Re the port flange: that .3752 dimension was left large by a few thou, figured that it would be nice for
the ultimate builder to be able to "custom fit" it to its' mating hole. One or two of them may have ended up 
a few thou smaller during clean-up. As I've already received the crank
assembly, I tried out the fit of the crank return shaft through the port flange. Turns out to be VERY 
tight, so a bit of polishing will be needed there as well. That hole was drilled, but not reamed as I 
don't have a reamer of the needed size. One could take a skim pass with a boring tool once it is installed,
if it turns out to be necessary. 

Cheers, Joe.


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 14, 2011)

OK, I'll do a few more test cuts with the reamer to see what happens if I leave more or less material for it to cut, I'll try and get it down to .376 but sounds like it should be ok as is. I'm doing this operation in the lathe with the reamer held in a collet in the tail stock.

I'll tap the holes M3x0.5 - looking around that does seem to be far more common that the M3x0.6

Just to be sure - PCW - did you supply hardware for these attachment points? If so what thread?
Mike


----------



## pcw (Dec 15, 2011)

the m3 threaded rods ill be sending out soon is M3 0.5
Pascal


----------



## chrispare (Dec 15, 2011)

Recieved your pieces today Joe,, Verry nice indeed


As a side note My pieces are ready to go (hopefully saturday they will be off)

Chris


----------



## chrispare (Dec 17, 2011)

My parts have made it to the mail today. 

You should be getting them in the next week or two with the holidays in there.

Chris


----------



## dalem9 (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks Chris And MERRY CHRISTMAS Dale


----------



## Path (Dec 18, 2011)

Chris,

Looking forward to getting them. woohoo1

Everyone .... Have a great holiday and a safe New Year. 

Pat


----------



## warranator (Dec 20, 2011)

Received your parts in the mail Joe, very nice.


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 21, 2011)

Dale,

Received your parts in the mail - very nice work!

I also got in about 2 hours of shop time - just enough to get all the parts finished to length, so not too much progress but forward motion all the same. Now its just a matter of putting holes all over these pieces!

Mike


----------



## maverick (Dec 22, 2011)

Received Joe's and Pat's parts, very nice looking bits. My parts are progressing. Con rods, collets and nuts
 are finished. Flywheels are half done, will work on them today.

 Mike


----------



## maverick (Dec 23, 2011)

Getting closer. Expect to ship all parts next week.


----------



## Path (Dec 23, 2011)

*Xmas came early ... got my parts from Joe ... nice! * Thm:

*Maverick ...The flywheels look terrific; the engraving ... nice touch!* Thm:


Pat


----------



## maverick (Dec 29, 2011)

Chris's part,the bearing housing showed up today. I slid the crank through the bearings and tried the collet and flywheel next.
 Less than 1.5mm of thread is showing past the flywheel. Barely enough to get the nut on.
 A quick check with a scale shows all parts to print. More precise measurements will be taken tomorrow. I'm not sure how to proceed,
 any suggestions? Shortening the collet and the "snout" on the flywheel would gain some additional thread engagement. I haven't sent
 any parts yet so mods are possible.


----------



## Path (Dec 29, 2011)

maverick,

According to my SW drawings there should be .109" (2.77mm) available space for the nut.

Since you measured about 1.5mm we are looking for about .049" (1.27mm). 
What is the thickness of the spacer (item #15) that Chris provided?

During assembly the spacer is trimmed down to about 1.5mm (.059").
So any wider would reduce the space for the nut.

Pat H.


----------



## maverick (Dec 29, 2011)

It appears that the collet will close up slightly when the nut is tightend and allow the FW to move a bit 
 farther thus exposing more thread. Still not 2.77mm but closer. This is with a 1mm spacer. It may be    
 necessary to tweak each individual assembly.
   Checking the fit of the wrist pins to the connecting rod revealed some undersized bushings. The .158 
 reamer didn't always make a .158 hole. I'll use a #21 reamer which is .159, a .0015 clearance should
 work. Barring any changes to the FW-collet assembly, the parts will be shipped tomorrow.

 Mike


----------



## dalem9 (Dec 29, 2011)

Chris And Joe Got your parts today Very nice . Dale


----------



## Path (Dec 29, 2011)

maverick  said:
			
		

> It appears that the collet will close up slightly when the nut is tightend and allow the FW to move a bit
> farther thus exposing more thread. Still not 2.77mm but closer. This is with a 1mm spacer. It may be
> necessary to tweak each individual assembly.
> Checking the fit of the wrist pins to the connecting rod revealed some undersized bushings. The .158
> ...




Mike, 

I received my parts from Chris today ... my spacer is about .5mm.
They should be about 1.5mm or so. Yes we trim them down depending on the rest of the assembly.


About the wrist pin ... at first mine would not go into the reamed piston or the bearing. I gently dressed up the entrance ... then with a little 
pressure the wrist pin slid into the piston and then the bearing. My wrist pins do not move on the piston but allows the piston to swivel on the rods without increasing the bearing hole size. 


Great that the parts will be shipped tomorrow ... looking forward to getting them.  


Pat H.


----------



## ninefinger (Dec 29, 2011)

Received bearing housing, thanks Chris.

Made some progress on the crankcases. Finished the main bore and counter bore and return crank bore, then got my program sorted out to do all the cylinder side features (cylinder hole, steam ports, mounting holes) - now just to load the parts and press go a few times...more progress expected tomorrow ;D

Mike


----------



## Path (Dec 30, 2011)

*Chris,*

Received your parts today ... thanks. :bow:
Looks like we are closing in on putting it all together. 

Thanks again! 


Pat


----------



## maverick (Dec 30, 2011)

Hello team,
 My parts are in the mail. I got a cramp from filling out all the customs forms.

 A happy and prosperous new year to all.
 Mike


----------



## warranator (Dec 30, 2011)

Chris

Received your parts, very nice work.


----------



## ninefinger (Jan 2, 2012)

Happy new year all,

I made some good progress on my parts over the last couple of days. Attached is a photo of where it stands now.

Just have to drill the breather hole, tap it, and tap all the other 240 or so M3 holes....auto reversing tapping head should help with those..

I cheated just a little on the rear steam passages - seeing as the timing is controlled by the rotary valve and the port flange I used a 1/8" ball end mill to make the ports (0.125") versus the 0.098" called out.

* need to get a 3/8x32 tap or make one as I don't have that size. Making one will be hard as I just sold my lathe in anticipation of getting a new one (or new to me...) - just means a small delay while I wait for it (the tap that is) to come in. The new lathe is as of yet undecided..

BTW who is making the breather - if not made yet we could maybe change the thread to 3/8-24 which I do have a tap for...

Mike


----------



## dalem9 (Jan 2, 2012)

Looks real nice Mike ! Dale


----------



## chrispare (Jan 3, 2012)

Mike I dont think anyone was doing a breather, so you could leave the hole untapped for each to do on assembly or,?

It is looking real nice so far, great job!
Chris


----------



## maverick (Jan 3, 2012)

Mike,
 I second Chris's suggestion, just leave it untapped and each team member make their own breather. I think the mount is 
 going to be handled the same way. Good progress on the crankcases, did You Mill or turn the interior?

 Regards,
 Maverick


----------



## SBWHART (Jan 3, 2012)

Build going great guys, 

All you need for the breather is a small hole in the crank case, the brass cap is just to make it look fancy.

Stew


----------



## Path (Jan 3, 2012)

Mike

Yep ... that's the way to go .. untapped is fine with me. 

The crankcase looks terrific. 


Pat H.


----------



## ninefinger (Jan 3, 2012)

Alright, I'll drill it for tapping 3/8" (need to look it up..) and leave it untapped.

Maverick - I ended up turning the interior bore with a boring bar. I tried using a boring bar in the boring head on the mil but there was far too much chatter for my liking (mostly due to the plain carbide boring bars I have for it) so I switched back to the lathe and put on the old 4 way tool post to get the job done, with a HSS boring bar. I also tried a quick grinding of an end mill to achieve the undercut but again the neck ends up too small and chatter resulted - maybe if I had a proper woodruff key cutter or T-slot cutter with enough clearance I might have been able to mill it.

Mike


----------



## Path (Jan 3, 2012)

*More parts ...*

Got my Flywheel, Collect and the big brass Nut. Thm: Thm:

Thanks Maverick .. great looking parts, especially the engraving on the flywheel.

Kit is almost complete ... just need the Crankcase from Mike Ross which is almost done and the Steam Chest Cover,
then I can start the assembly process.  

Pat H.


----------



## chrispare (Jan 3, 2012)

So what parts are we still working on? And how are they coming along?

chris


----------



## dalem9 (Jan 3, 2012)

maverick got your parts today , great job . Dale


----------



## ninefinger (Jan 4, 2012)

Pat - received the cylinders, pistons and wrist pins today - Great job!
Joe - received the steam chest, orbital valve and port flange - excellent as well!

No shop time tonight (dead tired from playing hockey = guaranteed to make a mistake!) but I did play with the new toys that came in and put them together a bit for fun (sorry about the pic quality - camera is dead tired too - it needs batteries)

Mike


----------



## maverick (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks for the mockup pics. It's really starting to look like an engine.

  Maverick


----------



## warranator (Jan 5, 2012)

Would just like to confirm with everyone. Is the auction model still going ahead? I don't mind either way.


----------



## t_ottoboni (Jan 5, 2012)

Got the parts from Dalem9, Joe D and Warrantor.
VERY nice parts from you guys! My congrats! =)

Sorry for the delay about my parts, but I've been very busy in the past month with final tests... I'm almost done here! Running as fast as I can!


----------



## maverick (Jan 5, 2012)

Warranator,
  Good question, I was wondering the same thing. I have an extra set of parts for the auction model
  if needed and was going to send them to Chris but I got sidetracked and only sent his set. The auction model
  would be a good thing if we can swing it.

  Regards,
  Maverick


----------



## chrispare (Jan 5, 2012)

the last i remember we were going to go ahead with the auction model. But It is not totally up to me.

that mock up looks pretty good


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## maverick (Jan 5, 2012)

If anyone has extra parts for an auction engine, chime in and then we can figure out
  what to do next. 

    Different topic, what's a good way to seal the copper tubes to the cylinder?

   Maverick


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## Path (Jan 5, 2012)

maverick  said:
			
		

> If anyone has extra parts for an auction engine, chime in and then we can figure out
> what to do next.
> 
> Different topic, what's a good way to seal the copper tubes to the cylinder?
> ...




I sent my extra parts to Chris, either can be used for the auction unit or Dtanner.
Don't have any more parts though.


*Maverick *... I plan on expanding the tubes ends into the cylinder holes using a small press. If needed 
will add a little Loctite to fill the gaps.


Pat H


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## ninefinger (Jan 8, 2012)

Well $#@%^&*!  I've slowly been whittling down the number of good parts I am making - now down to 6 that are not fatally flawed or cosmetically challenged! I should be able to send out the 6 good ones very soon - just need to 
1) put in the breather hole 
2) tap the M3 holes unless someone wants to do that themselves - I just received my tapping head and its going to take some figuring out. 
3) I think it was agreed to leave the 2-56 holes not drilled for the port flange and the assembler is to drill and tap themselves.

I do have 3 more parts that have what I would call cosmetic "features" added to them. If I were building for just myself they might be acceptable but as I'm building for others I don't feel right sending them out.
A) this is the best one - I added a few extra dots through inattention - I think that if this face was either used for the bottom to mount the engine or had a fancy name plate bolted on it would be perfectly fine
B) my drill bit wasn't seated all the way and it dragged across the face of the part, then as it was still bent missed the pilot hole... as can be seen its barely visible once a cylinder is mounted.
C) did this yesterday - buried a drill in there good! Its not just broken - its "pressed in" and I don't have anything to get it out. Lets just say this boo boo was preventable :-[

Mike


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## chrispare (Jan 9, 2012)

Mike if one of the cosmetically challanged parts will still work fine then I dont mind taking it at all. Instead of you making a new one. I also dont mind haveing to tap the holes.

You are doing a fine job too, They look great

Chris


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## maverick (Jan 9, 2012)

Mike,
 I agree with Chris, the "cosmetically challenged " parts will work fine. The part with the drill stuck in it 
 could be saved with a plug, either pressed, screwed or welded. Way too much work in them now to
 toss out.


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## dalem9 (Jan 9, 2012)

Mike that's fine with me to . Also you can yet the broken drill out with alum yes the cooking kind . Just mix it with water and boil in a non steel pan and it will eat it up . Yes it really does work .I will take the one with the broken drill ,I will get it out . Thanks Dale


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## SBWHART (Jan 9, 2012)

You can assembly the one with the extra dots with the dots side down covered by the base mounting.

Looking good for completion

Stew


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## Groomengineering (Jan 9, 2012)

Pre-buggered parts... I love it! :bow: If I could get some of those it would save me loads of time buggering them up myself! :big: :big: :big:

But seriously, very nice build guys! Thm: Can't wait to hear them running.

Cheers

Jeff


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## maverick (Jan 9, 2012)

Groom,
 Why let someone else have all the fun of buggering up your parts.
 If you haven't got the hang of it keep trying. If that don't work I'll show you some ways
 to do it more efficiently, in batches even.

 Maverick


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## ninefinger (Jan 9, 2012)

Hi Guys,

Thanks Chris and Dale for the offers to take the cosmetically challenged (pre buggered) parts. 

I haven't given up on the one with the broken drill, it's just that I know I could spend days trying to get it out (been there done that) as there is no clearance between the flutes of the drill and the base material. So using Alum or whatnot for chemically removing it, the chemical is only acting on the top surface  very slow going doing that. An EDM would make quick work of it, and then yes, I would put a plug in it and redrill  it will again be mostly hidden by the steam chest so for the final assembly cosmetically it won't show. I thought of drilling it out from the inside - but the hole is outside the 1.25" front opening....

Dale if you don't have access to an EDM I don't think its coming out unless you have allot of time - if you still want it let me know:

As to how it happened  well my excitement got the best of me.I received my new auto reversing tapping head and wanted to try it out. Well I didn't have the right arbor to mount it on (different order form different vendor) but it was the same taper as the arbor for my drill chuckwell after trying it just once and realising I needed to finish all the holes first I switched back the drill chuck onto the arbor. Guess I didn't seat it right and tight when it went back on.

This part would be funny if it didn't happen to me  drilling the hole the chuck came off the arbor as the machine was half done the peck drilling cycle  so it quickly stopped rotating then progressively got pounded in as the cycle continued until I could find the stop button ( a few seconds is a lifetime watching this happen) which was too late as the machine had moved sideways to the next hole and broken the bit  the retract was not high enough to clear the tapper. I wasnt watching as closely (I was only a few feet away) as before as this was the 8th time Id run that sequence so I knew the sequence was good  just wasnt expecting that particular problem!
So anyways I have effectively bonded HSS and aluminum together with a new process I think I've invented - peck pounding 
I have to check and see if there is a G code for hammer and nail...

I should be putting this post in the Mistakes, Blunders and Boo Boos thread or humor thread instead of here..

Mike


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## dalem9 (Jan 9, 2012)

Mike yes I agree it will take alot of time with the alum,so if you want to edm it out that would be great . If you can't it is stall ok with me . I have lots of time . Thanks Dale


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## warranator (Jan 9, 2012)

Maverick- Received your parts today, very nice.

Chris- Your other crank set for the auction model will be in the
post tomorrow.

Mike Ross- Your crank set will also be posted tomorrow. I am also not fussed
about getting a cosmetically challenged part, if everything fits and it works then
that is fine.


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## joe d (Jan 10, 2012)

maverick: Got your parts today. (it's nice to come home from work and have a package waiting)
Nice work!

Joe


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## chrispare (Jan 11, 2012)

maverick you parts look great!

these piee are coming togeaher


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## t_ottoboni (Jan 14, 2012)

chrispare, got your bearing housing here here! Very nice!

Updating:
Steam Chest Cover: complete
Cylinders: need polishing
Pistons: Need to drill for gudgeon pin and mill the inside corners for con rod clearance
Gudgeon Pins: 0% (doesn't take a lot of time to make)

Working hard on them this weekend (sorry for the delay, guys... I'm not as fast as most of you to make parts that works and fit each other hehehe)


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## ninefinger (Jan 14, 2012)

Guys,

So as to not cause any more delay I think I will box up and ship out the crankcases as they stand - ie drilled but not tapped M3x.5, and WITHOUT the breather hole drilled either - I see this as letting the final builder have some freedom in choosing how to implement the breather hole. Also - my M3 taps haven't shown up yet and I don't have the practice with the tapping head yet...don;t want to bugger more parts....

It seems that most nights I have more computer time than shop time these days. I've learned a hard lesson in the past about operating machinery when I'm tired and that is one rule I don't intend to break. Lastly - I'm doing this as work is getting busy again and I'll be travelling starting on Monday so I don't want to delay anybody anymore - I realize that this is a fairly critical piece of the engine! 

PS - Maverick - received your parts - very nicely done!

Mike


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## dalem9 (Jan 14, 2012)

Mike this soundes good to me . Thanks Dale


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## Path (Jan 15, 2012)

Mike,


Sounds like a plan ... looking forward to your part.

Thanks,

Pat H.


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## warranator (Jan 15, 2012)

Yeah sounds good to me.


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## SBWHART (Jan 25, 2012)

This as gone a bit quite.

Or is it a bit like a duck:-------------- lots of paddling under the water

 :big: :big: :big: :big:

Stew


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## maverick (Jan 25, 2012)

Glad you're still looking in Stew. Everyone on the team has a pretty good pile of parts and 
 we're waiting patiently for the few remaining bits, meanwhile there is some fitting and finishing to do.

 Maverick


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## Path (Jan 25, 2012)

*I've been busy watching your new build ...


*
Pat H.


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## t_ottoboni (Jan 26, 2012)

Parts 99,9% done!
I just need to round the cylinder's edges and give a final polish on them!
Will ship them on saturday! Sorry for the delay! :-[


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## chrispare (Jan 27, 2012)

I got a PM from t_ottoboni wanting to know who still need cylinders and pistons?

So please post if you have no recieved any yet

Thank you
Chris


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## joe d (Jan 27, 2012)

Hi

As of yet, I have not received these parts.


Joe


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## dalem9 (Jan 27, 2012)

Hi I still need cylinders yet Dale Thanks


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## warranator (Jan 29, 2012)

I also need cylinders.


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## Path (Jan 30, 2012)

t_ottoboni sent me more parts ... only need one more to start the assembly process. Thm:
Getting closer 8)

Looking forward for it and thanks for the update. 

Pat H.


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## dalem9 (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks T-otto for the note looking forward to receiving your parts . Have the wood bases and the bolts been sent Or are these now up to use to get . Thanks all Dale


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## pcw (Jan 31, 2012)

wood bases and m3 nuts/threaded rod will go out asap. 
bit strugling with my health last few weeks. fell of me bike (the one with pedals and muscle power) and fractured 4 ribs, collar bone and dislocated shoulder.   
Pascal


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## maverick (Jan 31, 2012)

OUCH! Hope you heal up quickly.

 Maverick


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## Path (Jan 31, 2012)

My gosh ... does that include a bit of a tumble down rocky mountain side?
Good thing you were wearing a helmet (you were ... right?) stickpoke

Get well soon.
Probably should stay off a bike for a while. 

Were you racing?


Pat H.


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## pcw (Jan 31, 2012)

i always knew it, my wife disagrees. but anything with two wheels should have a engine in it 
it's all very painfull, but it will heal up. went with the bike to get some small groceries. dont realy recall what happend, but bike threw me off and i fell on the edge of the sidewalk. is about 10 cm high conrete edge. 
no bycycle's for me now for a while. tire me down anyway, i need something that burns fuell to move forward.
pascal

ps, i don't have piston/cilinders yet


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## dalem9 (Jan 31, 2012)

Hope you get feeling better soon . God be with you. Dale


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## dalem9 (Feb 6, 2012)

Hi Tarik Got your parts today ,nice work .Thanks for the key chain . Dale


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## joe d (Feb 6, 2012)

Tarik:

I got your parts today as well. They came out really nicely, I like how you did the inside of the pistons.
Thanks for the key chain as well!

Cheers, JOe


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## rleete (Feb 6, 2012)

Pics?


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## dalem9 (Feb 9, 2012)

Has any one heard anything from Tanner , and how is he doing . Thanks Dale


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## Path (Feb 9, 2012)

Nope ... been very quiet. Just hoping the parts are in the mail. :shrug:


Pat H.


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## ninefinger (Feb 11, 2012)

Hi guys,

parts are done and will hit the mail Sunday or Monday. Sorry about the delay - travel caught up with me and kept me out of the shop before I could finish up. 

I'll post a picture or 2 tomorrow.

Mike


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## Path (Feb 12, 2012)

t_ottoboni ... got your part. Nice job. :bow:

Also nice key chain ... 

Down to one part and looks like Mike will be sending it Monday. 
Should have it in a couple of weeks. Thm:

Thanks for the update.


Pat H.


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## chrispare (Feb 21, 2012)

So got the crankcase today and it looks pretty good 
Just a few notes, I think you may have forgotten to deill a few holes (see pic)
Also a few of the parts need a bit of tweeking to fit properly (and we all were expecting that, its part of the build)

Just waiting on the bases and hardware  and this thing will be togeather! so excited!

Here is a few spoiler pics.
note the crank has been filed a little so that is dosnt bind when togeather.


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## joe d (Feb 22, 2012)

ME TOO! ME TOO! Got a crankcase in the mail yesterday.... woohoo1

Nice job, Mike. Getting anxious to start putting this together.

Joe


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## pcw (Feb 24, 2012)

i am recovering bit slowly from the fall with the bike. developed pneumonia but that's almost fought with the meds now. ill get the bases and screws out within two-three weeks now. i am very sorry bout the delay, i hate keeping others waiting.
Pascal


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## Path (Feb 24, 2012)

pcw  said:
			
		

> i am recovering bit slowly from the fall with the bike. developed pneumonia but that's almost fought with the meds now. ill get the bases and screws out within two-three weeks now. i am very sorry bout the delay, i hate keeping others waiting.
> Pascal




Not to worry ... take care of yourself.

The parts can wait but your body won't ... gets lots of rest and you can finish them up when you are able. 


Pat H.


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## maverick (Feb 25, 2012)

The crankcase arrived yesterday and I couldn't help stacking on as many parts as would stay put. Starting to think 
 about a mount, anyone have an idea?

 Maverick


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## dalem9 (Feb 27, 2012)

Well Guy's it run's . Thanks to all for all the work on the parts . Dale


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## joe d (Feb 27, 2012)

Dale

How can you do this to us?    stickpoke Where's the PHOTOs Man! :big:

glad to hear that you've got a runner.

cheers, Joe


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## ninefinger (Feb 27, 2012)

Guys,

As Chris pointed out I didn't drill the three holes for the port flange - as per Pats reccomendation that the final assembler mark them out just incase as the tolerance for the countersunk holes to line up the port flange would be really tight.

Also -* don't forget to drill a breather hole for the crankcase*. I didn't put one in at all to leave it to the builders imagination on where / what to use as a breather (no one is supplying the breather cap shown in the drawings).

Dale - where are the pictures? th_wwp I was scrounging in my bin of assorted screws last night and I finally found enough M3 screws to put it together but I needed to go to bed after that...

Mike


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## dalem9 (Feb 27, 2012)

Here's some picture's Dale


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## warranator (Mar 14, 2012)

Has everyone received their crank cases yet? I am still waiting. Does anybody know what is happening to the bases? Are we making those ourselves.


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## Path (Mar 14, 2012)

warranator  said:
			
		

> Has everyone received their crank cases yet? I am still waiting. Does anybody know what is happening to the bases? Are we making those ourselves.



I received mine some time ago ... I was under the impression that all crankcases were sent out. 
I wonder if the mail system mess up. ???

I haven't had much time to do anything with my collection of parts. 

I guess the base will be sent when Pascal is up to it.
No one was assigned the base so it is something each of can design and build, shouldn't be too hard.

Hope you get your parts soon. 


Pat H.


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## maverick (Mar 29, 2012)

I've just about got the pile of parts assembeled into an engine and was wondering if anyone has come up with
  a novel idea to mount it to the base? An air supply line with valve will be next.

  Maverick


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## dalem9 (Apr 15, 2012)

Hi Sorry to inform you with bad news .Pascal has passed away he was to have made the bases and supply the screw for our engines . My my best to his family and friends . Dale


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## warranator (Apr 15, 2012)

There has been a fair bit of bad luck during this build. RIP Pascal.


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## ninefinger (May 21, 2012)

I've managed to get my engine to run - how many others have so far? Here is a video of it - the sound and picture quality aren't great but I'll work on those skills later...

[ame]http://youtu.be/WZHkIj9Rhsg[/ame]

It runs but leaks a lot of air past the valve, a little less when the air is admitted through the rear port versus the side port.

I got mine to run after allot of fine tuning. The rotary valve is way to touchy for my liking. I had it too tight when I first put it together - the motor would barely turn over with the valve in place. This is from memory and may be wrong but: I think I lapped the valve on a surface plate but took off a tiny bit too much and it ran but leaked badly - wouldn't self start and the air would run right through the valve / steam chest to the exhaust port without ever going to the cylinders. Then I took off the steam chest and skimmed it by as small a cut as I could take with my baby lathe and tried again, removed then lapped the steam chest until I got it to be just barely too tight to allow for brake in. I may have had to do something about the 3 small 2-56 screws holing the valve plate to the crankcase - I may have lapped the whole thing as an assembly (valve plate and crankcase) to get rid of a couple of high spots, and I may have opened up the countersinks for those 3 screws to let the screw sit down a touch more...

It runs OK now and self starts in forward or reverse most times (except when the video camera is out!) but I think the valve needs a better seal (maybe a groove on the face on both sides for a Teflon o-ring or similar - ie slippery but slightly compliant.) Otherwise I think it needs too much oil for those surfaces to slide and not leak.

I think I will hook up a proper intake and exhaust line to quiet it down some too - its really very quiet without all that air leaking by...
Thanks to everyone on this build - it was fun and a great learning experience.

Mike


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## maverick (May 22, 2012)

Great job Mike, nice looking engine. And thanks for the valve tuning info, it will be needed. What kind of 
  fasteners are you using? How about the mount, any ideas?

  Regards,
  Mike


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## Path (May 22, 2012)

Great video and thanks for sharing your tune ups .

Hope to get back to mine soon. Will post when done.


Pat H.


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## Blogwitch (May 22, 2012)

Just as a matter of interest to you guys, by fitting one of my simple swap over control valves you can get fwd/rev and full speed control.

There are no drawings for the basic valve, except in my 'Paddleducks' engine build manual. But I am sure someone has a copy to get a few dimensions off. You just have to shape and pipe to fit.

This is my original Cygnet Royal build (which your engine is derived from) showing the control valve.














John


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## maverick (May 22, 2012)

Thanks for the tip Bogs. I think compressed air engines need at the very least a decent throttle valve
 just to make them presentable. Your control valve is just the ticket to give some nice detail and 
 functionality to an engine. I've yet to make the base for mine but will be sure to make space for the valve
 when I do. Hopefully it will help give my engine that well finished look that Yours always seem to have. 

 Regards,
 Mike


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## ninefinger (May 22, 2012)

maverick  said:
			
		

> What kind of fasteners are you using? How about the mount, any ideas?
> 
> Regards,
> Mike



Mike,

I scrounged up a whole pile of M3 x.5 screws that I salvaged from scrap PC's and the like (my brother does metal recycling and always has things he's found for me to have a look at - its amazing what some people throw out!). I tried to match the color of the screws - stainless on the cylinder heads, black for the cylinder to crankcase and front bearing mount. I didn't have enough of either so I ended up with a mismatched set of screws on the front. For the steam chest I got supper lucky and had 8 long M3 screws - slot head but they work (only needed 6  ).

For a base I'm thinking of something dark to offset the aluminum and brass - it just so happens I have a board of Peruvian black walnut (I bought it long ago and don't remember - It says eruvian walnut on it - likely the P has been chopped off). 
For the stand I think I'll attach to the front bearing housings three lower attaching screws with maybe a milled chunk of aluminum to complement the rest of the engine.
I like Bogs throttle - I was thinking of something similar - but I'll align it axially with the engine center line to make it appear as a designed in part as opposed to the afterthought it is going to be!
1st I need to get my lathe wired in properly so I can make some parts, that is going to cost me as much as the lathe in the end...

Mike


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## t_ottoboni (Jun 2, 2012)

Hi guys!

I just finished assembling the engine! I spend quite a bit of time to adjust the clearance between the valve and steam chest cover. It runs great even at 5 psi! The base is made of Muiracatiara, a brazillian tropical wood that tends to get a reddish color with time.
This is truly a priceless model!

Thanks a lot guys!


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## maverick (Jun 3, 2012)

Tarik, Your engine looks fantastic. The base and mount are very classy. Could You show how the mount is attached?
  Still cutting gaskets and finding hardware for mine. It shouldn't be too long till it's running.

  Regards,
  Maverick


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## joe d (Jun 3, 2012)

Tarik

That looks great! Like that piece of wood too. Mine is still sitting in a box under the bench,
where it will stay until at least September, in two weeks I`m out of here for 70+ days of
reserve service... so am now concentrating of getting the honey-do`s done before I go.

Joe


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## t_ottoboni (Jun 9, 2012)

Maverick: to attach the mount to the crankcase I drilled and tapped and M6 hole in the bottom of the crankcase. The brass mount has a threaded end in the top. In it´s bottom, there´s a M6 hole, and I secure it with an M6 screw from the bottom of the wooden base.


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## warranator (Jul 23, 2012)

A couple of pics with the mount I made.


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## ninefinger (Jul 25, 2012)

OK, just finished with putting mine on a stand.  I think that wraps it up for me.  I was planning on a reversing valve but I have other projects I want to get to first.

Thanks again everyone.

Mike Ross (aka ninefinger)


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## mrspoom (Nov 14, 2012)

I'm new to the site and was wondering what a "team Build" is?


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## rleete (Nov 14, 2012)

Team builds are where each person makes one or more parts, and then sends them to either the group leader, or each member.  So, buy making multiple copies of a part, you each end up with all the parts for a complete engine.  Ideally, there are enough members that everyone makes a single part, and everyone gets a working engine.  Sometimes they make an extra to sell to support the site, or to present to the site owner.


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## mrspoom (Nov 15, 2012)

I would be interested in a team build!


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