# Not a Coomber! Now a Laminar Flow



## Foozer (Nov 16, 2011)

Seeing Arnold cruising along on his latest build got me thinking. Not always a good thing.
Building the comber model is a tad over my skill level but like the motion of it. Did a sketchy look at to see if I could, with what i have, do something similar.

Dont know what its called but the dirty animation seems to show that it will work. If I start now I should be done in about a year  Flywheel spins, cylinder spins on offset axis, piston connects to flywheel and it should go round de round. Haven't seen anything like it, but then me new at this stuff.

Anyone know what the heck this type of configuration is?

Robert


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## GailInNM (Nov 16, 2011)

Robert:
I think this is the same but no name associated with it.
http://www.animatedengines.com/revcyl.shtml

Here are a bunch of rotary engines that you might look through and find something on it.
http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/rotaryengines/rotaryeng.htm

Gail in NM


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## Foozer (Nov 16, 2011)

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Robert:
> I think this is the same but no name associated with it.
> http://www.animatedengines.com/revcyl.shtml
> 
> Gail in NM



Thats it, much better animation than mine. Now the winter project is afoot.

Thanks

Robert


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## arnoldb (Nov 16, 2011)

Go Robert ;D

Nice project choice Thm: - I'll definitely be following along.

And I don't think a coomber is below your skill level; you're plenty capable of building one.

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Blogwitch (Nov 16, 2011)

Robert, and anyone else interested in this design.

On Bill Reichart's site (now run by his widow) is shown what he called the Gyro engine. It works on the same principle you are looking at.

Click on the very first picture along the top if this link doesn't take you to a description of it, and it will take you to a few details about it.

http://www.billreichart.com/engines.shtml#epi

I bought the plans a fair while ago now, meaning to make one similar one day, and the main issue appears to be the rotary valve that the cylinder rotates around (or inside).


John


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## Foozer (Nov 16, 2011)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Robert, and anyone else interested in this design.
> 
> the main issue appears to be the rotary valve that the cylinder rotates around (or inside).
> 
> John



There's a working model, thanks. Haven't worked it out, but was thinking something along valving similar to what an Elbow Engine, oscillator engine uses. Should keep me busy for a while.

Robert


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## BillTodd (Nov 17, 2011)

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Robert:
> I think this is the same but no name associated with it.
> http://www.animatedengines.com/revcyl.shtml
> 
> ...



Just a note: Doug has moved his site to http://www.douglas-self.com/ the older site is still up and running but is no longer being updated.

Bill


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## Foozer (Nov 22, 2011)

Nothing much, figured out how to cut the flywheel web, really do need to get a mill.

Got the jig sketched up for mounting and moving the web around to get the lathe to make the cuts I want. It'll only be as good as the effort i put in to locate the index holes.

Found if I post, then I do a bit quicker, thats my story and I'm sticking to it

Sketch of the jig and one of web in place for a cut, all has to fit within a 6 inch envelope. 

Now to turn that into metal.

Robert


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## Foozer (Nov 28, 2011)

Turned a sketch into a piece of metal and it even looks like what I drew up. 

Must of been the "Make a Plan" before cutting that did it, thats a new one for me.

Took some care in making the jig, planned out and followed the order of cuts and now I have a flywheel web. One thing did not look into enough and its a oh well, was thinking of using some brass sch 40 pipe for the rim. Ah the 3 inch stuff has an id of 3.06 +/- so cutting a web from 3 inch stock just ain't gonna work. Well still have a few pieces of round solid brass, guess if I'm careful i'll still have a usable yet smaller dia piece left.

Pic of the plan, making the jig, cutting the piece and finally the end result. One down unknown to go.

Seems to be a theme I have going,  curvy, curvy is good.

Robert


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## arnoldb (Nov 29, 2011)

> Seems to be a theme I have going,  curvy, curvy is good.


Always ;D 

Good going Robert  Thm: - not idle at all, are you!
Is that brass or bronze ? - anyways, that bit of round metal is worth quite a bit more than the note ;D

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Foozer (Dec 16, 2011)

One thing I'll never do again, well until I use up the brass stock, is to chain drill. BLAH!
Tried a hole saw, nada. Chain drilled a piece of round to get a hunk for the flywheel rim, cleaned up, and its a wonder the poor little 109 is still alive and kicking after all the fuss she put up.

With a soda in one hand and a large newly found hammer in the other I ended up with what will be the rim. After all that fussing with the rim decided the first version of the web was just to plain, so conjured up another design. This time I think I got a tad bored  Ah but this time set a couple roll pins to ensure the jig stays put during the various cuttings. Shall see what the next few days bring.

If I knew what I was doing wouldn't be nearly as fun

Robert


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## Foozer (Dec 21, 2011)

So after the chain drilling fun had to make up a nicer web design. Jig v1 failed, the sorta milling attachment for the lathe doesn't have enough travel for the v1 layout, cured it with v2. Same design just a bit of relocating the part to fit within the envelope. 

After some 28 or so operations ended up with, well, least I know the jig is good. Not enough meat left on the web for durability. No biggie, with a good jig in hand, I can always make another, which of course shall be done over the next few days. Tis what happens when your not watching the dials close enough 

Robert


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## Foozer (Dec 23, 2011)

And so another blank drilled up to become a web is afoot. Holes all 'bout bored to size less the stage to which nipping out the piece is in order. Not doing so creates an unwanted projectile I'd rather not play with today. Have the web standing off the faceplate so the hacksaw blade can do its job. The ah, nip on me thumb is what happens when, well holding the part in hand and letting loose the hacksaw of destruction perhaps was not the best idea.

After a bit in the deburr one each web with a bit more meat to it. Now to bore the center for a bearing and set the rim

A completely TLAR type of flywheel

Robert


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## arnoldb (Dec 24, 2011)

;D Some progress!

I agree Robert, That Looks About Right :bow: - well, except for that nip on the thumb that is 

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Foozer (Dec 24, 2011)

Wont be the last finger nip either. This web shape might work Ok. The first design had 6 good contact points whereas this one only has the 3. Gonna have to be a good tight fit for it to stay. Need to find some dry ice for the web cool to fit this one together, maybe. Guess is that a 0.006+/- diff in dia should give a good and solid fitup. Will know in a few days


Robert


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## arnoldb (Dec 24, 2011)

Robert, may I be so bold as to suggest that you go for less of a press fit ? - 6 thou is likely to collapse the web... 2-3 thou should be plenty to hold it permanently.
Just a thought... 

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Foozer (Dec 24, 2011)

arnoldb  said:
			
		

> Robert, may I be so bold as to suggest that you go for less of a press fit ? - 6 thou is likely to collapse the web... 2-3 thou should be plenty to hold it permanently.
> Just a thought...
> 
> Kind regards, Arnold



Bold is good,  I'll shoot for 3. Think I used 3 thou on the flywheel to the Elbow Eng, it has a lot more surface contact and sure stays put.

Bold is good, I'm just guessing most of the time.

Flipping little thumb nip sure smarts like the dickens, silly thing 

Robert


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## Foozer (Dec 26, 2011)

Someday's. . . Was boring the hole, didn't matter how many times I checked it, still ended up a tad to big. Bearing ended up as a fall thru rather then a push in. What to do, make a new web?, nothing new to learn in that. Ok, want to make the hole a tad smaller, do remember reading about knurling used to upset the metal. No knurl wheel, got a lighter tho. Took the little striker wheel from a lighter, slipped it on a piece of stock and ran it thru the hole. Worked, upset the material enough to take the bearing back to a push in state, once Loctite'd in she be good to go.

Off to look up and order me a couple of them for real type of knurl wheels. Good band aid fixer and I do need band aids. So from error I learn another little tid bit.

Robert


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## arnoldb (Dec 26, 2011)

Innovative recovery Robert Thm:



> Flipping little thumb nip sure smarts like the dickens, silly thing



Wonder what reminded you that that lighter wheel is knurled ??? ;D

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Foozer (Dec 28, 2011)

arnoldb  said:
			
		

> Wonder what reminded you that that lighter wheel is knurled ??? ;D
> 
> Kind regards, Arnold



Didn't think I had hollered that loud when I thwaped it

Got bored, that or take this old 109 cough cough lathe and chuck it into the sea, I'll go with bored for now. Thought I would try a bit of powder coating.

Looked for the simplest way I could find and came across the fishing lure, fluid bed method. Dug up a couple of cans, lower one is the air chamber which connects to the upper via glued together plastic lids. Most of the inner diameter was removed, a coffee filter placed over the opened bottom of the upper container and things snapped and taped together. Some air applied and the powder just sorta bubbles like easy boil water.

The coating is from Eastwood and is a Cast Iron type finish. Stuck a booboo piece in the toaster oven at 350 for a while to heat up. Gave it a dip, swish and shake in the fluid bed, back into the oven for 30 minutes at 350 degrees and ended up with. . . TADA.

Course for a real part, a spot that wont show afterwards is in order for an attach point

Finish actually has a casting look to it, I like it, easy peasy.

Robert


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## Foozer (Dec 31, 2011)

Flywheel mostly complete, really winging it here. Put the web into the rim, somewhere 'round 3-4 thou difference in diameters. Heated (actually read the directions this time) the assembly and gave it the dip, swirl and shake in the fluid bed. Liked the first one better, part was cooler so the powder kinda stuck to the piece rather than melt upon contact. This has a thicker coat, but its all good.

After its cure time and cool off I trimmed up the rim. Now on to the next piece.

Robert


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## Foozer (Jan 30, 2012)

Took a left turn from a revolving cylinder, went to a Laminar flow, had that Airpot piece calling to me. Wanted something that did not require air to run. Getting this to run is a story to itself.

Thought I'd get fancy and add a spinner to the flywheel. The inner set of spokes are on a separate bearing, now I gotta chuckle, for a spinner to work it seems that it needs to be on the same shaft as the flywheel. This is not, both the flywheel and spinner are located to a solid shaft via ball bearings, a Duh moment. . . Kids says I was having too much fun cutting out the pieces all of the same pattern to notice the booboo. Something will come up to get the effect.

As to this thing running. I can get it to tick over but just barely, takes way to much heat. Thinking the chamber volume at TDC is too large in that when it draws in the hot air it becomes too dilute. Tomorrow I plan to make a plug to reduce the cylinder volume at TDC and see if that helps. 

Seen plenty of samples run off a candle so know it can be done.

This model got me to play with powder coating (fluid bed method) Its interesting.

Robert


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## lazylathe (Jan 30, 2012)

That looks very cool Robert!

Kind of like the one i built a while ago, only better!!! ;D

From the looks of it your steel wool seems to be loosely packed in the tube.
I packed mine in quite solidly into the bottom of the tube.
Used 0000 steel wool as the regenerator.
About 4 inches in length.

I tried a lot of various options and the lightly packed option did not work for me.

Try it, you may be surprised!
They are quite easy to get running!

Andrew


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## Foozer (Jan 30, 2012)

Took the Airpot piston out, tis quite a gizmo indeed. Has a one way valve built into the piston to release the air from the cylinder as the piston travels to TDC.

Holds a vacuum well e'nuff, but no pressure. Might just be a bit of a reason this thing is being fussy. A dab of JBWeld and in a few hours shall test the pudding.

Robert


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## lazylathe (Jan 30, 2012)

Yours is different to mine!

Hopefully a dab of JBWeld in the hole will seal it up nicely!

Andrew


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## Foozer (Jan 30, 2012)

lazylathe  said:
			
		

> Yours is different to mine!
> 
> Hopefully a dab of JBWeld in the hole will seal it up nicely!
> 
> Andrew



Know in a few hours. Then to see how that change differs, then to try different wool packing as you suggested. 

Robert


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## Foozer (Jan 31, 2012)

Sealed the piston valve and now it has a tick, wheres that hammer. Tried different packings, not much change. Tomorrow another day to play with it, in the mean time a short vid of it ticking over. Not 'nuff light for the camera so is a bit redish.

Robert


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHzUAREZqdQ[/ame]


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## arnoldb (Jan 31, 2012)

;D It's a runner! Well done Robert Thm:

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Foozer (Jan 31, 2012)

arnoldb  said:
			
		

> ;D It's a runner! Well done Robert Thm:
> 
> Kind regards, Arnold



I gotta kill that ticking tho. Found it, the con-rod attaches to the piston via a ball and socket mount, socket being a piece of rubber locked in with a metal cap. I extended the con-rod by cutting the con-rod and slipped a piece of brass tube over it. There is just a bit of play in the ball and socket mount and the brass tube just kisses it. All loctite'd in now, have to see if I can slip a cushion in there to stop the tick.

If I wanted a slow runner I got it. But its all good fun

Now to finish it up

Robert


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## lazylathe (Jan 31, 2012)

Very cool!!!
Congratulations!!! ;D

Mine also makes the ticking noise...
I suppose i could also loctite the ball and socket and put in a small joint in the con rod.

Love the look of the flywheel!
I know a lot of work went into that one!

Andrew


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## Foozer (Feb 6, 2012)

Gonna call it done. If I keep playing with it something will break.

Tried different grades of packing to see what change in speed would result. From coarse (100 rpm) to finer thats in it now (175 rpm) not a lot of change. Volume of test tube seems to have a greater effect. If the packing on this one is closer to the restrictor it wont run at all. Much nicer to run off spirits, no, blah! soot.

Video coming

Robert


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## lazylathe (Feb 6, 2012)

Tick, tick, tick, tick....etc!!! :big:
Turns into background noise after an hour or so!

I like the stand you made for it!
Did you include that into your build log?

Andrew


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## Foozer (Feb 6, 2012)

lazylathe  said:
			
		

> Tick, tick, tick, tick....etc!!! :big:
> Turns into background noise after an hour or so!
> 
> I like the stand you made for it!
> ...



Burner only holds nuff fuel for about 15 minutes of run time. Starts out slow then speeds up after a couple minutes, then after a few more settles down to a good and steady 160 +/- rpm.

Base is just a piece of floor tile, carbide bit drilled the mount holes thru. Now to find the camera for a video and see if I can get the flywheel spinner to function.

Robert


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