# Homemade DRO...maybe...sort of...



## zeeprogrammer

First off...I know next to nothing about a DRO. By that I mean, the features and usage of those boxes with the 7-segment displays, buttons, and nifty functions.

Second...this may not go anywhere but it has a better chance of making it if I post it. In any case, it will be slow going.

My hope is to build and install a DRO system for my X2 mini-mill and my mini-lathe.
There's been a few threads on this...so it's not new...but I hope someone finds this thread interesting and/or entertaining.

The system is based on the DRO-350... http://www.shumatech.com/

The 350 is obsolete but you can still get parts, and more importantly, PCBs.

I went to Mouser and Digi-Key and bought all the components except for the PIC processor, enclosures, cables, and of course, PCB. I also didn't get the required number of switches. I intend to use something I'm already familiar with or have access to because of my work. Initially I was going to use perfboard. But I found the costs for board, wirewrap wire, and wirewrap sockets have gone way up since I played with this stuff some years ago. I stayed awake all night thinking about all the hand wiring that would be required (I want to build two of these)...so I went ahead and bought the PCB(s) from a place that services these systems. I can connect my own processor to the PIC holes. I still need to think about cabling and enclosures.

As I mentioned, I'm building two of these. One for the mill and one for the lathe. They will not have all the nifty features of a real DRO system. I just want to be able to see the relative distance, be able to zero out, and perhaps change scale (mm/in). Having said that...the system can easily be added to. I suspect I'll keep a communication port to a PC so I can also do some software enhancing from there.

While you can simply look at the display on the caliper, I'm thinking that will be difficult to do in some cases. There's also the possibility of coolant and I need to ensure the system is covered. You can also get remote displays for the caliper but I didn't want to buy a bunch of these. Besides, I wanted the flexibility and potential that the DRO system affords.

The electronics and software will be a piece of cake for me. It's how I make my living. The rest of the system is a different story...

As many of you know, the system uses cheap digital calipers for inputs. So the real challenge for me is going to be modifying the caliper (metal-wise) and mounting them. The mill will need 3 and I'm thinking the lathe will also require 3 (one for the tailstock).

Here's a pic of the caliper we're talking about...







So it was time to play...

I started with an angle grinder to knock off the pointy bits. I've never used an angle grinder before. ;D And while it was somewhat successful...the cherry red glow should have been a clue. The scale bubbled up near the end.

So I went to the dremel. That went pretty easily! This shot shows the display pulled off. The caliper at top shows the back. You have to peel the label off and undo the screws.






And so I continued...

I knocked off the rest of the pointy bits with the dremel. I now need a new cutting wheel for the dremel...it got worn nearly down to the shaft. At this rate I'll need 5 more.

Here's a pic of what's left sitting on top of the tailstock.






Now I need to figure out how to mount it so that no damage will occur when in use. Also want to protect against coolant.

A couple of things I noticed...the display went a little nuts. Seemed to work fine in my hand...but not on the tailstock. It could be that it's too loose sitting there, it could be residue from the grinding, or it could be an electrical issue. I read somewhere that the electronics' positive is connected to the metal caliper itself...so some insulation may be required. (Note: The actual values on the scale - I cut both ends off - are not important. The electronics reads everything relatively.)

So there's the start...tips, suggestions, well-wishes are welcome.

I got tired of waiting for that guy who owes me beer (you know the one) and have procured a supply. Nor do any of you need to worry about your snacks...I got that too...and you can't have any. :big: Not even going to tell you what they are.


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## Twmaster

I've seen more than a few folks do similar things with a caliper. I have a similar caliper I bought at H-F for $10 on sale. I plan to hack it up.

I got lucky and scored a used 24" scale for very cheap at the last metalworker club flea market. It needs to be cut off too...

Also, I have the PCB and overlay for a DRO350 I'd like to sell. Contact me via PM or email if you have interest.


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## Noitoen

The problem with home made DRO for me is the scales. I can treat any signal and display it on a lcd using Pic micros but my lathe and mill are to big for the calliper type scales. I've installed a cheap calliper on my mill's Z axis but the travel is small.

Optimum Maschinnen have a magnetic strip type scale but I can't get any information about the pick-up for these.


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## zeeprogrammer

Thanks Mike.

Noitoen...yeah scale size could be an issue. I managed to find a very affordable 12" scale that I think will work perfectly for the mill's X. I have a set of 6" calipers that should work for the mill's Y, as well as the lathe's cross-slide and compound. They may even have to be shortened.

I have no plans to mount a scale for the lathe's carriage. But we'll see.

The bigger issue will be the mill's Z. I think the 6" is too short now that I extended the mill's travel.


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## rudydubya

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> ... well-wishes are welcome ...



Zee, I wish you well. ;D Good luck and be assured I'll be following your progress with interest. What kind of cutoff disk or wheel did you use with your Dremel? 

Rudy


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## Noitoen

The sensor I was talking about is from these guys http://www.sikoproducts.com/MS100_1/part/MS100/1 

The magnetic tape is sold by the metre. I've installed a readout from Optimum on a machine and works fine. I've tried to capture the signals between the MS100/1 sensor and the readout display with no success. Tried to get an application note for an amplifier from Siko but no response. If you can get something from them it would be great. They have other sensors that give "treated" signals but the price is too high.


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## zeeprogrammer

... well-wishes are welcome ...



			
				rudydubya  said:
			
		

> Zee, I wish you well.



Ha! I knew it would be someone. But from a home state...even better.

If I'm identifying the wheel correctly from the literature that came with the box...it's just called a 'cut-off wheel'. I can't remember the diameter now. But I have to admit to some confusion. I'm looking at the pictures of the cutting wheel and none of them match the thickness. But I can't find anything else that matches either. Cut well though.

I'm wondering if it was actually a grinding/sharpening wheel? No idea if this pamphlet shows all of the bits that you can get.

But thanks to you Rudy, I've been sitting here reading this thing and getting all excited. I think I'm going to like this tool. ;D


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## zeeprogrammer

Noitoen,

Looks like a pretty interesting sensor. Good for long distance or even odd shaped applications...but seems more work than the caliper since you have to make something to carry the sensor. Seems particularly interesting for measuring a round turning object.

I tried looking at some of the user documentation but when it takes more than a couple of minutes to transfer...especially from a vendor...I give up and move on. If they make it difficult to get information...then I'm less interested.

Thanks!


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## Blogwitch

Carl,

I went the route you are taking a few years ago on my previous mill.

Even though these digiverns are a cheapy variety, they do need to be treated with respect when it comes to chopping them about. Your problem might be on reassembly, and you haven't got the correct pressure on the phos bronze wiper strip that runs along the edge of the main scale bit. They can be a bit fiddly to get back into the correct position and adjusted up.

Over the years, I found this was the most common area for failure, especially when you were half way thru a job. You need to get that wiper adjusted so that it doesn't lock the unit up, but still allow a good clean contact. The other main area of failure is the carbon pick up strips on the back of the display itself, especially thru condensation, you will get spurious readouts on the display. That requires a rather delicate strip down job of the whole display unit and the tracks very carefully cleaned down with methylated spirits.

Using digiverns and read heads of this design is fine, but I found that were rather unreliable at the best of times, even when well protected. Eventually, after about 3 years, and having many spare heads to swap over at a couple of minutes notice, I gave up on them and went to glass scale versions. After spending copious amounts of money replacing the scales, it worked out cheaper and less frustrating in the long run to swap over.

Don't get me wrong, they are a relatively cheap method of getting a DRO system, and they do work accurately most of the time. But this type of scale, no matter what anyone tells you, is not designed to work in the environment you will be putting it into, especially if you use suds as well. 
The only reason they manufacture the scales in all lengths is because people still think they can get a good working system from them, and the manufacturers will continue to produce anything if it makes them money, whether it is fit for purpose or not.

I do still use one of this type on the quill Z axis of my mill, but only because it is out of the way of all the nasties, plus I have done away with the battery problems (another thing that needs to be addressed) by running it on a small power supply that a friend very kindly made for me.

That is just the way it didn't really work for me, it just might be OK for yourself.

BTW, when mounting it onto the tailstock, you really need to get something on there to compensate for the twisting motion of the barrel. I would suggest a double ended ball joint available from most model shops.

Blogs


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## black85vette

Should be an interesting project Zee. I have looked at several approaches to this myself. I can't get my head around spending $350 for a mill and $750 for the dang DRO!!! I will chip in if I have anything to add.


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## zeeprogrammer

Blogs...thank you!

I did notice the wiper strip. At one point I was moving the display back and forth and it peeped out. I had meant to mention that in my post.

If they worked for you for 3 years...then given my own production rate...I should be good for 10 or 15. :big: But seriously, thanks for the heads up...it's not something I want to frustrate me and take away from the enjoyment.

As for the battery...yes...power will be provided by the main system...no batteries should be needed.

I'm looking for success...if this turns out to be a failure but teaches some one else...then it's still a success. Does that make sense?

Your warning about the twist of tailstock barrel....I didn't notice any twisting when I cranked either direction...but I can rotate the barrel by, call it 1/2 a mm, by hand. I don't understand the issue though. If you get the opportunity I'd appreciate any additional information. Thanks.

Thanks Rick! That's exactly it...half again as much for the equipment is just way too high.


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## deere_x475guy

Hey Zee I built one of these back about 2004 and sold it with the dove tail column mill I put it on. The calipers as scales are very touchy. You might want to think about going with the glass scales.


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## 1hand

Whats up Zee.

The way I mounted mine scales with the angle iron really protects it from swarf and coolant. I'm really happy with the way they function.


Matt


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## ozzie46

Zee, on the twisting of the tailstock barrel. It will put the scale in a bind and give inaccurate readings. I've run into this on the Z axis of my drill/mill. I will be doing as Blogs suggest soon. 

 Ron


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## zeeprogrammer

Hey Bob...that's the 2nd...no..third reference to glass scales I've seen. Guess I need to find out what that means. ;D

Matt...yep...in fact I ordered some angle iron...er...aluminum...just for that reason.

Ron...I have to admit I still don't understand. I may have to wait and see what happens when/if I mount this thing. I don't even know what blogs meant by 'double ended ball joint'....I'm just a softie! But I/we will get there!

Thanks all. The gating factor will be when the PCBs get here. I had to send a check so the turn-around time is a little lengthy.


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## 1hand

Zee,
I know you seen my thread, but for others: Here they are all covered up and protected from the nastys.

matt


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## zeeprogrammer

Yeah...I think it was your thread that got me ordering some angle.

Thanks.

Pssst...next time put a link in to your stuff! ;D


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## ozzie46

Zee, double ended ball joints are used on the rotor heads on RC helicopters for the control linkages for the pitch and collective. Look up a picture of a RC helicopter at Tower Hobbies.com and it should become clear. 

 As to the twisting problem I don't know any other way of saying it. Maybe Blogs will chime in tomorrow. As he is in Britain he's probably asleep now. I know he could give you a better answer.

 Ron


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## 1hand

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=7354.0

Heres a link to a homemade DRO set-up. I hear the author is a heck of a guy............ :


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## cfellows

Good Thread, Zee! I've been trying to justify some kind o DRO for my mill/drill but just can't see spending $500 or more for one. It's one of those things I'd really like to have, but at the prices they command, they're just not worth it to me. Funny, I've always kind of thought that any tool I really wanted was worth the price. Guess I just don't want it that bad. I'll be interested in seeing how yours turns out.

By the way, was it hard to cut the bits off that first caliper? I bought one for less than $10, including shipping, wanting to make a height gauge out of it, but it's so darn neat, I'm using it as my primary caliper now!

Chuck


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## zeeprogrammer

Thanks Ron.

1hand...you're right about that author. That thread attracted some excellent repliers too.

Thanks Chuck. Actually no...I was surprised how easy it was with the dremel. Well...the angle grinder too. Remember...I have no experience with an angle grinder and precious little with a dremel (I had an old one for year). I think heat control was a lot easier with the dremel but that might be because it was smaller and by that time I was looking for it.


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## Blogwitch

Carl,

Sorry I confused you somewhat.

When I said twist, it should have read tailstock ram rotation.

Even a very small amount of that rotation transferred to the rigidly mounted digi head could twist and distort it out of working.

What I suggested was going to the model shop and purchasing a couple of control arm ball ends and joining them together with a little threaded rod, as shown in the pic below. 

Even though you will get microscopic out of alignment reading as the ram turns, I doubt it would even show up on your scale.

I did do a very fancy setup for the glass scale version on my lathe, but again, I had to come up with a slip joint that would compensate for ram rotation. You never know, you might eventually, one day, need to mount a glass scale to your tailstock.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1938.0

I hope it is now clearer.

Blogs


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## ke7hr

Zee,

Have you looked at the DRO section on the CDCO tools website? They have displays for the scales and calipers. They also have photos of the glass scale DRO units.

Building a DRO system does look like fun, but buying the built parts, programmed, might be easier - leaving time to build engines!


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## Blogwitch

To compliment this article, which is about drilling to accurate depths, I thought I would let you know about a little proggy in Marv's collection, that makes drilling holes more accurately to depth much simpler, by calculating how much extra depth you should add to take into account for the angled drill bit tip.

It is called DALLOW.ZIP. Which I used regularly until I recently converted over to a 64 bit machine, and now it refuses to run. But we can't expect Marv to cater for all eventualities. But it is well worth downloading and using if you use a 32 bit machine.

http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/#shop

I've now got to go back to pencil and paper


Blogs


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## don-tucker

Here's my contribution 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It enables me to take it of easily when not wanted,works well.
Don


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## Majorstrain

Thm:
Nice Idea Don.
That just led to thinking about using a switchable magnetic base to hold the scale and a magnet on the end of the scale arm to attach to the carriage.
Quick, easy and removable.

Picture when the temp in the shed drops below 45°C

Cheers,
Phil


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## don-tucker

The trouble with that Phil is that it would be inclined to move when you least expect it,I wanted to drill a hole in the end for an allen screw,but couldn't drill the scale,didnt have a stellite drill.
Don


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## Majorstrain

8:30pm now and 28deg C



> The trouble with that Phil is that it would be inclined to move when you least expect it



You were spot on Don, I tried some 5x5x20mm rare earth magnets and they did allow the scale to shift.
I was able to get around that problem by the method in the pictures. 





The grove in the DI base holds well and the other end is pinched in the cheap DTI base.















It's not intended to be a fixed solution and only gives a longer range than my 30mm DI all be it one less decimal place in accuracy.

Sorry for the side track Zee, and thanks for the DRO350 info. I'll be onto that soon.

Cheers
Phil


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## don-tucker

Thats crafty Phil.Put a drop of oil in that headstock please. ;D
don


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## Majorstrain

don-tucker  said:
			
		

> Thats crafty Phil.Put a drop of oil in that headstock please. ;D
> don



Will do, and a bit more than a drop. Rof}


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## zeeprogrammer

I don't sleep well in the first place...but last night was terrible. At first, every time I woke up, I was thinking..."Oh. That's what Blogs meant.". Then I started worrying that I hacked off too much...how am I going to mount it? Ah well.

Thanks Blogs. And thanks for the pics. To the hobby shop! ;D Also thanks for the link to Marv's programs.

ke7hr...thanks. Assembly shouldn't take very long. The enclosures and cables might be a different story. As for programming...the biggest hurdle will be acquiring the data stream but I have some source code to help.

Great contribution Don. Thank you.

No worries Phil. That's also a great contribution.

Before any one says it...mounting should have been addressed before hacking...ah well. But hey...cheap caliper...cheap lesson.

So...mounting the caliper. That's going to take some thought. I think the existing holes used to mount the display to the caliper won't work. The holes to be drilled and tapped in the tailstock just seem too small. They're on the order of 1/16.


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## black85vette

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> As for programming...the biggest hurdle will be acquiring the data stream but I have some source code to help.



Zee; Are you using the DRO350 or your own solution?


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## zeeprogrammer

black85vette  said:
			
		

> Zee; Are you using the DRO350 or your own solution?



The only thing I'm planning on doing at this point is to display the relative position of an axis.

Converting the signal to position looks pretty easy. I'm going to use the PCB of a DRO350 to hold the electronics...but the only electronics from the DRO350 I intend to use are the 7-segment displays, their drivers, and the analog switches and op-amps for the signals from the calipers. I won't be using the PIC and therefore not its software. However, I think I have the software and can look at it for reference if needed. I won't be installing all the buttons. I can do that later should it become desirable. I just want power, mm/inch, and zero.

As for a processor...I haven't really looked but it's also straight forward...just some GPIO. I've seen some applications where a UART is used but it's not strictly necessary. The signals can be bit-banged. Because of my work I have a number of options from old evaluation boards. A Cypress PSoC, a TI 470, and an ST STM32 Coretex.

I'm favoring the ST simply because it's the processor I'm currently on at work. The other reason is that it supports USB. While my box computer supports RS232, my laptop does not.

One other thing I did was to order an LED/phototransistor pair (reflective). With that, and the same board, I intend to put together a tachometer for the spindles...and maybe an engine. ;D


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## max corrigan

Zee this is my version of a DRO this is on a myford lathe i only use it on final cuts only, where some accuracy is needed it fits on the tailstock and also the saddle, using the same modified caliper it fits onto the lathe very easily and is a handy mod
I drilled the caliper with a stellite? drill and as Marv i think suggested, take the battery after use to prolong it's life been using this set-up for about a year now with no problems at all, well worth doing

Max....


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## Noitoen

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> how am I going to mount it? Ah well.



The way I mounted mine was gluing with epoxy a 5 mm piece of aluminium bar with a threaded hole on the back of the body, taking care not to cover the tiny screws on the calliper's back. In the front of the scale I milled a slotted 4x8 mm hole to aid in the alignment, but my calliper was made of plastic.

If you sharpen a "good quality" concrete drill, you can drill a hole in the calliper's tip. 
Once I was able to drill out a 12mm broken tap from a cylinder head with a properly sharpened concrete drill.


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## zeeprogrammer

Thanks Max and Helder.

One possibility I'm considering is to make a plate that will mount to the tailstock and then mount the caliper's slidey part to the plate.

In any case...the lesson here (I'm so terrible at lessons) is not to modify anything until you have to. In my case I started hacking before I had figured out the complete solution. But gee...it was my first time and I got carried away. ;D


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## Kermit

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> In my case I started hacking before I had figured out the complete solution. But gee...it was my first time and I got carried away. ;D



That's NOT how you're supposed to do it?  ???

 ;D  I've just always assumed that was how everybody's 'stuff' got done 8)  Figure out most of what you're doing and what you want as a result. Then close your eyes. Wade in. Start swinging.  Try not to bleed on it. Cuss alot if you want it done quicker. And smile when you're done.  If that doesn't work. Rethink it. Then do it the same way at least one more time before changing  



Hard headed and consistent,
Kermit


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## zeeprogrammer

Ah...thanks Kermit. I really wanted to hear that. Seriously...helps a lot. ;D


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## cfellows

Ahhh, Zee, if I were a girl I'd be weak in the knees from all your talk of GPIO, UART's, and bit banging!   Seriously, wish I had half of your knowledge of digital electronics.

Chuck


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## JimN

I agree with Kermit, and if all else fails, form a committe to study the problem. More than once the committe has been made up of Me, Myself and I to sit around and drink coffee and study the problem.

JimN


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## deere_x475guy

JimN  said:
			
		

> I agree with Kermit, and if all else fails, form a committe to study the problem. More than once the committe has been made up of Me, Myself and I to sit around and drink coffee and study the problem.
> 
> JimN



Very well said Jim....hang in there Zee... ;D


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## Majorstrain

JimN  said:
			
		

> I agree with Kermit, and if all else fails, form a committe to study the problem. More than once the committe has been made up of Me, Myself and I to sit around and drink coffee and study the problem.
> 
> JimN


Too true. I fully agree.
and if the meeting extends to after 5pm (or something to do with the sun and the yard arm ;D) you can move the meeting to the smoking room and partake of some fine cognac and cigars. 
Then there is no stopping the flow of plausible solutions :big:.
 :noidea:
Cheers Zee,
Phil


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## zeeprogrammer

Thanks all. 90% of my problems are about confidence. You all help a lot. The other 10% is lack of knowledge. ;D hm...you all help a lot there too!


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## zeeprogrammer

Blogwitch  said:
			
		

> a little proggy in Marv's collection...by calculating how much extra depth you should add to take into account for the angled drill bit tip.
> 
> It is called DALLOW.ZIP. Which I used regularly until I recently converted over to a 64 bit machine, and now it refuses to run.



Just to add some clarification...or perhaps confusion...

I suspect the program was written in a 16-bit world. The 64-bit machines will run 32-bit programs, but not 16-bit programs. This is a real bummer as I haven't been able to run the original DOOM on my laptop. ;D

Marv provides the source file as well. For grins I took a run at recompiling the file using Visual Studio 2005 for a console app. It appears the program uses a function that I'm not familiar. The function is used to input parameters for use by the program. For this program it would be easy enough to use command line parameters...but that's a bit more work than I want right now.

I thought I'd read about some one converting these programs...or maybe it was some one who was developing a similar tool set?

Hm...drat...now it's got me thinking...


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## zeeprogrammer

I investigated the twist/rotation of the tailstock quill.

There is sufficient backlash to give an error on the order of +/-.0003" Not an issue in my mind. Particularly since all force will be directed towards one end and the caliper should show any change.

More important was the point that this rotation could cause undue stress on the caliper and/or tailstock. However, the springy bit in the holder that applies pressure to the side of the scale seems to give much more than that. In other words, it should take up any change. I can't imagine that any change in accuracy would be noticeable by me.

I think I've worked out how to mount the caliper to the tailstock. It should just be a matter of a little dremel work to make two slots on the caliper and then two tapped holes in the tailstock.

Mounting the scale to the quill will be based on using a collar. Many thanks to Max for his picture. I would've simply used a set screw but his method avoids the possibility of damaging the quill.

Geesh...this is like typing an email to someone...I almost ended with 'Best Regards'.


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## Foozer

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I think I've worked out how to mount the caliper to the tailstock. It should just be a matter of a little dremel work to make two slots on the caliper and then two tapped holes in the tailstock.




Following, too cold outside for much else. Drilling holes in yer machine? That's the one task I always cringe at. Never fails that after the deed is done a better method pops up. 

Just a waiting to see how it turns out. 

Robert


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## zeeprogrammer

Robert! I was just wondering about you last night.



			
				Foozer  said:
			
		

> Drilling holes in yer machine? That's the one task I always cringe at. Never fails that after the deed is done a better method pops up.



Exactly the worry. Well...that and ruining the job in the first place.


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## fdew

I am another of the many using these inexpensive calipers for a DRO 
A couple of notes.
I thought long and hard about two common problems. The caliper I can afford is not long enough. How do I connect both ends in a stress free way.
I solved these by connecting just one end. That way I can use a caliper with a range as long as most of my projects but not as long as the travel of my machine. Also when I don't need it, it is not moving. 
I connect the other end, by pushing on it with my thumb.
http://lbpinc.com/x.jpg

I have learned that if you let it fill up with chips they will get inside and it will stop working. The good news is that they are easy to take apart, and the head from a cheep 6 in can be fitted to the more expensive 12 in. that you let chips into.

Making the assembly easy to remove, means that when you are just making chips and don't need it (roughing out a one piece crank shaft) you will remove it. Removing it is the easiest way to keep it clean. 

Frank


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## Foozer

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Robert! I was just wondering about you last night.
> 
> Exactly the worry. Well...that and ruining the job in the first place.



I'm a still breathing, too chilly out for nut and bolt work so the reading of Plato and chasing the bride around the house keeps me busy.

You've got the hookup from caliper to read out down to which I'll be waiting for the final solution. Only query that nags me is what happens if the tail stock ram is over extended? Only know my own boat anchor lathe and the over extension frees the ram allowing it to spin. Would sure make a pretzel of the caliper in a hurry.

But then, yours probably has a positive stop to prevent such an occurrence and this old worry wart is a fretting over nothing.

That motor of yours sure turned out nice. A beam engine I see coming up 

Robert


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## zeeprogrammer

Frank. Thanks for the post. I've wondered that myself. And I need to think about making the caliper easy to remove...your point is good that the less time there doing nothing...then the longer it should last.

Robert...yeah I need to do a beam engine some time. Absolutely.


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## zeeprogrammer

Went by Home Depot today and got some cut-off wheels for the Dremel. It's now obvious that the wheel I was using was a grinding stone. Still haven't found it in the literature that came with the tool...but no matter...we continue.

I am bothered a little by the fact that the cut-off wheels came 20 in a container. That kind of tells me that I'll be going through them too.

Did I mention that this was the first time I've done this kind of thing? That I used a full face-shield? That I tried to blow off the dust but ended up fogging the entire thing?

The scary part was that the face shield wasn't any more uncomfortable than my glasses. At one point I thought I was wearing it...but I wasn't.

Got most of the electronics today. Realized I had ordered just 16 and 20 pin sockets cause I can put 8 pin parts in 16 pin sockets and so on. Works fine for perfboard...but since I'm getting the PCBs...oops. Well I can cut them...hm....cut...cutoff...wheels...hm.


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## shred

Yeah, the little dremel cutoff wheels do like to break, so stay off the plane of the cut as much as possible. They really don't like bending at all.


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## Twmaster

Zee looking at how you work I don't think 20 is enough.... Hope Lowe's or Home Despot isn't far away!


----------



## ozzie46

Zee, If you got the black cutoff wheels they are fragile and won't last long. They make reinforced cutoff wheels for the dremel that are very good. I use them all the time for cutting music wire and shorting screws and the like. They are reinforced with fiberglass I think and I have never shattered one. I have read they last longer if you use a coolant never tried it as they seem to last fairly well, for me at least, without it.

  I use them instead off a hacksaw for cutting drill rod and round stock up to about 1/2.

 Ron


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> Zee looking at how you work I don't think 20 is enough.... Hope Lowe's or Home Despot isn't far away!



Ow! Ow ow. Ow.

It has occurred to me that it might be cheaper if I simply moved next door to one. :big:

Ron...these are brown...well...dark brown. I think the hobby shop has a better selection of Dremel stuff. I'll check there. I checked the Dremel site (something I should have already done) and I see what you're talking about. Thanks.


----------



## mklotz

> Marv provides the source file as well. For grins I took a run at recompiling the file using Visual Studio 2005 for a console app. It appears the program uses a function that I'm not familiar. The function is used to input parameters for use by the program. For this program it would be easy enough to use command line parameters...but that's a bit more work than I want right now.



The input function (vin) was written by me and is included in the code via my personal library. Folks who are interested in porting the programs can obtain the source for that function and others from me.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

mklotz  said:
			
		

> The input function (vin) was written by me and is included in the code via my personal library.



Ah! I was wondering about that the other night. You had mentioned a library before.

I had searched for non-standard headers but missed the reference to MWK.LIB.

Do you know if anyone has actually ported your programs?

It sounds like both the LIB and the source for it is only available directly from you...not your site. Correct?

Hadn't seen you for a few days...I hope the holidays have been good for you and your family.


----------



## mklotz

I've been gone a while. My wife dragged me off to Palm Springs for a few days. Picture a town composed of golf courses with streets named "Bob Hope Drive" and "Gerald Ford Avenue". Very high silliness level but the desert weather was fantastic. Stopped in Indio (self-described date capital of the country) and had date milk shakes. I asked about date wine but the yokel behind the counter just looked confused.

I've had literally scores of folks request permission to convert my programs to whatever the current brain-damaged GUI is (real men use a command line) and, despite my provision of whatever source code they need, not one has ever got beyond converting one or two programs. No one has ever started a web site offering all the converted programs as they've promised. I guess that once they appreciate the amount of time involved in converting and then proofing that much code plus the fact that it's almost all math they quickly find more interesting things to do.

Yes, you're right. None of the library source is on the site. If you want it, you can obtain it from me. My guess was that anyone doing a port would have no need for the utility routines and would write their own to fit their GUI interface.


----------



## bentprop

Zee,the Dremel cut-off wheels will last a little longer if you coat them with thin superglue BEFORE use.Just run it over the whole surface,both sides,and let dry.They will still break if you twist them,but quite often,I have to replace a wheel because it's got too small to cut anything!I coat 3 or4 at a time,so there's always one ready to go.
If you're like me,and get the cheap superglue,you'll find it's usually a bit thicker.Just ball up a piece of paper,and spread glue over the surface of the wheel.Let dry,then do the other side.
It takes a lot less time to do,than to describe it :big:
Happy New Year to one and all.


----------



## Blogwitch

Marv,

I have been using your little proggies for ages now, and they have made my life a lot simpler.

I used to do some programming many moons ago, but only when it was on 8 bit machines, and as you know, I am a nuts and bolts man, and all the relearning would be very difficult for me as the grey matter is starting to flag a little.

If I had known I would be losing so many of my resources by moving over to 64 bit, not just your programs, I wouldn't have bothered. But like everything else, you only look for the benefits to be gained when spending fairly large amounts of cash on an upgrade, and I am a little loathe to spend even more getting a 32 bit notebook to go into my shop (no room for a desktop machine) at this time.

Most of the work can be done with paper and pencil, but your little programs took all the hard work out of it.

Many thanks for times I have been able to use them to good effect.

You don't realise how useful something is, until your don't have the use of it any more.


Carl, just a bit of advice.

Go for the simplest method you can think of to do a job, and still have it being reliable. What isn't there can't go wrong.

Don't worry over drilling holes in hard stuff, make a clamp out of soft stuff and join onto that. See C-o-C.
If you can't get it clamped tight enough, just assemble the whole lot with a touch of superglue or Loctite, I will guarantee that they won't come apart.
You should even be able to join onto what you have left of your digivern.


Blogs


----------



## mklotz

John,

Thanks for the kind words.

You may want to Google for 64 bit DOS emulators. Given the amount of DOS code that was written, there must be somebody out there addressing the problem.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

mklotz  said:
			
		

> You may want to Google for 64 bit DOS emulators. Given the amount of DOS code that was written, there must be somebody out there addressing the problem.



I'll be interested too. I've done some searching but haven't found anything yet. I'll try asking at work too...lots of gamers there.

Thanks for the tip bentprop!

Blogs...thanks. I had a similar solution but you saved me a hole. I was going to mount the caliper with two screws....one should be sufficient.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Small update...

Got the collar bored and fitted to the quill of the tailstock with a 6-32 to tighten it.

That's when I realized (and Blogs was trying to tell me) that a small rotation in the quill translates to larger and larger distances as you move away from center. Hee. 

Well...we'll keep going and see what's up. It can always be redone.

Pics will be coming. But without an M&M, DEAN!, there'll be no help with scale.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Okay...I have some 'rubbish' to post.

Simple project for most...lot's of fun for some...

Took a piece of 3/8 x 1 1/2 x something and cut about 1 3/4 off. Squared it up and milled it down to 1/4. Then drilled and bored it to fit the tailstock's quill.







Drilled for a 6-32 thread from the bottom and tapped it far enough to get well past the center of the hole. Then milled from the other end and drilled for clearance to just past center of the hole. Then hacksawed the split.






Then milled the top notch for the scale, drilled and tapped the hole for the clamp. Got a piece of steel (that crummy 1018) of 1/8 by 1/2 and milled to 1/8 by 1/4. Drilled a hole. Milled off about .02 from the side so I'd have a little fulcrum on the end.






For now I just double-stick taped the caliper down to see how things would go. I still have to mount it properly. In thinking about what Blogs said...I may be able to make a clamp that fits around the back of the tailstock and holds the caliper down. I wouldn't have to drill anything into the tailstock then.

Here's a short vid...





Dean..."rubbish is and rubbish does". :big:

No...I have no idea what that means.


----------



## Majorstrain

Hey Zee,
It was great to see your face in the video. Now I know what you look like. Rof} Rof}

Cheers
Phil


----------



## vlmarshall

Y'know, Zeep... Looking at that first picture... a block of aluminum, with a hole in it...





			
				zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

>



Did you ever imagine, ten months ago, that you'd ever make anything so complex? ;D


Nice work. Keep it up.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Thanks Phil.

Now see Vernon. This is why you're still on 'the list'. ;D

But yeah...10 months ago...it would have been a

hacksaw,
a hand drill,
a drill bit,
and some unknown bit of metal.

But now! This took:

6061 T6 Aluminum,
a bandsaw,
some cutting oil,
a mill,
a vise,
a lathe,
a 4-jaw chuck,
parallel bars,
an edge finder,
a boring bar,
a center drill,
a drill bit,
a center punch,
calipers,
height gauge,
surface block,
collets,
end mills,
drill chuck,
tailstock,
QCTP,
a square,
boring bar holder,
deburrer,
.....

And for what? A hole?!
What have you people done to me?! :big:


----------



## Twmaster

Gee Zee... What part of a locomotive is that???

Shhesh... All that stuff to make one part? All you need is:

hacksaw,
a hand drill,
a drill bit


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Rof} Rof}

Gosh darn it. I'm taking my marbles and going home. :big:
Hey...who stole my marbles?


----------



## vlmarshall

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Gosh darn it. I'm taking my marbles and going home. :big:
> Hey...who stole my marbles?



Ah ha! A ball-turning attachment is in someone's future. ;D


----------



## Twmaster

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Ah ha! A ball-turning attachment is in someone's future. ;D



coffee -> everywhere.

Damn you Vernon! You owe me a roll of paper towels!:rant:


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Found a dos emulator for my Vista 64 and was able to run one of Marv's programs.

www.dosbox.com

Now...can it run DOOM?

[EDIT: It does but I don't have sound. No matter. This game wasted a significant amount of my life. I don't want to get hooked again.]

[EDIT: It helps to turn the speakers on. :wall: ]


----------



## vlmarshall

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> Damn you Vernon! You owe me a roll of paper towels!:rant:



Hahahahaha...my day is complete. ;D


----------



## Twmaster

Zee you have not played Doom until you've run it on an SGI Indigo 2 with Maximum Impact graphics under IRIX.

Vernon... Are you going to make me wait for my paper towels as long as you've made Zee wait for his beer?


----------



## CMS

DOOM, what a great game. Along with Quake and not to forget Wolfenstein.


----------



## vlmarshall

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> Vernon... Are you going to make me wait for my paper towels as long as you've made Zee wait for his beer?



I sent Zeep a paper model of a Guinness... http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5349.0
I could send you a paper model of a paper towel...but you KNOW what that'd look like. ;D


----------



## winklmj

Quick--somebody buy one of these and report back:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/0-6-Digital-Fractional-Horizontal-Vertical-Remote-Scale/T21577






Can you yank off the 6" scale and replace it with something longer. I'd like to see what connector is hidden underneath that black-box on the scale. 3 of them on the mill would be nice.


----------



## black85vette

winklmj  said:
			
		

> Quick--somebody buy one of these and report back:
> 
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/0-6-Digital-Fractional-Horizontal-Vertical-Remote-Scale/T21577
> 
> Can you yank off the 6" scale and replace it with something longer. I'd like to see what connector is hidden underneath that black-box on the scale. 3 of them on the mill would be nice.



Just ordered one. At $24 I will find some use for it!  I will post when I get it. Thanks for the heads up. Thm:


----------



## Twmaster

Holy cow. And here I am holding onto every last penny so I can afford to move...

Head -> Desk. Repeat.


----------



## cfellows

I just ordered 2 of them. Looks my mill might have a DRO in its near future!

Chuck


----------



## 1hand

That's a heck of a good price. If you can put a longer scale in it some how, would be great. My 18" scale for my lathe w/o the display was better than a $100. Nice find gentlemen. As usual a day late and $1 short.............

Matt


----------



## DICKEYBIRD

Hey Zee, I bumped into your thread a little late and this may not be any help but here's how I did a similar project. http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2156.0

Like you, I tossed & turned at night but the solution I came up with is working great!


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Thanks Milton.

As for the rest of you...lovely....I get to investing in something...and someone has to point out some alternatives that cause you to pause. :big: But aha! I will be able to add features and goodies!!! Like a tachometer!

When last we left our hero...he'd ordered some parts.

Went ahead and used the sockets. Trimmed some off with the Dremel (makes a difference if you use a cut off wheel instead of a grinder!). That went well.

Here's the bare PCBs and packages of parts...







And here we have some nearly completed boards...






I haven't used the soldering iron for a long long time. Ah the smell of melting solder and the occasional toasted digit. Brought back many memories...

Soldering a hole I hadn't put a part in it.
Miscounting and not soldering a hole.
Solder bridges.
Is that plus? Or minus?
Where the heck is pin 1?
Oh no...an LED...is the longer leg the cathode? Or the anode? What the heck is an anode?

Almost didn't realize that some parts go on the other side.

Now that I see it, I'll probably go ahead and spring for some of the connectors. Still have loads to do. In particular...getting a processor hooked up.

On that note...I woke up the other night realizing that my favorite processor wasn't going to do the job. I forgot how power voltages have changed over time. 5V vs 3.3V. But I think I have another processor that will do.

We leave our hero slightly perplexed.


----------



## JimM

Looks like you're making progress Zee !

What's the blue pyramid shaped thing next to the cutters in your pic?

Cheers

Jim


----------



## Noitoen

JimM  said:
			
		

> What's the blue pyramid shaped thing next to the cutters in your pic?



That's a neat resistor bending jig.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Yep...a lead bender (or former)...also works for diodes.


----------



## black85vette

Looking good Zee. Be interested to see your processor solution / implementation.


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Zee, your soldering iron, bender jig and solder sucker all take me back to my formative years. I've still got the same Weller station as the one you show here. It still works although the plug from the iron wants to keep sliding out of the socket. I'll bet you are using the PTA7 tip too, huh? 

The rule used to be that all LED's had the long leg as positive (anode) and the flatted side of the body (look close) was negative (cathode) to match the flat line that gets drawn on a schematic (triangle with a tangent straight line) but then someone came out with some LED's where the long leg was negative and blew the whole convention out the window. Ah, but that was a long time ago...... I don't know where the convention stands today but I'm guessing it depends on whether they are made in China or not.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Rick...I think I'll try the Cypress CY8C29466. I've used it in the past and have the evaluation board for it. It turns out to have the same package outline as the PIC. I mean, it fits the 2x14 pin outline on the board! A couple of 2x7 sockets will fit end-to-end and I can easily remove the processor. A little trace cutting and wiring...and I think I'll be good. The part works from 3.3 to 5.25 and most of the pins are configurable. I shouldn't need a crystal either. 8 traces to cut and 7 of those get rewired. I can even hook up a connector and be able to program in situ if I want to or not bother with 2 of the pins. I haven't looked at the reset function yet but if I have to push a button to start it...that's no biggie.

Trout...Your memory is better than mine. I have no idea about the tip...but it came with the iron. Last night I remembered that the T1-3/4 LEDs have a flat on them. If I remember correctly that's the negative side...the little bar in the diode symbol. Of course, these little LEDs don't have a flat...but the length of the lead clues me in. Doesn't really matter...I'll temporarily install one and see if it lights up...if it doesn't...I'll try the other way.

Gee..this could open a can of worms...which way does the current flow? Seems like I remember the engineer and the technician differ on this. For the engineer, the current flowed in the direction of the diode's symbol (arrow) but the technician would say it flows the other way. And what about them holes? If the electron is moving right...then the hole is moving left. It's been a long time. :big: Well let's just leave that lie.


----------



## Noitoen

Hi, Zee

Remember the magnetic dro sensor from the beginning of the thread that I couldn't get the information from the manufacturer? I got hold of a sensor, a piece of magnetic tape and I'm going to "reverse engineer" the system. I've taken some measurements and what I found so far is that the sensor are composed of and array of hall sensors that give a 2 phase like sine wave output. A close look at the display module revealed, apart from the microprocessor, a precision quad op-amp and a double comparator so, each scale outputs to the micro 2 analog and 2 digital signals. I've copied this amplifier and when I receive the parts I've ordered, I'm going to mount the sensor and strip on the micro mill's table and figure out the signals.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Just a quickie post...

Found another pin I missed soldering...either eyesight or I can't count anymore (which might help Dean with the M&Ms).

Also...found I'd put a switch in the wrong place. I could remap it but decided to desolder and move it. Always a risk of lifting a pad...but I was lucky ;D.

Slow progress...mainly disappointed that I haven't been able to keep up with everyones' threads.

Been doing a little programming too...but also slow. Work is starting to eat up hours and since I program at work...I'm somewhat burned out.


----------



## hobby

Hi Zee, another of my many hobbies is electronics.

No IC's just plain good ole discrete transistor circuits.

Now a days, the cathode being the negative side of the diode is the shorter lead on a LED.
Also they have a flat on the lens to denote neg. term. 

Just like the electrolytic capacitors have the neg. side shorter lead.

Electron current from neg. to pos. But your just pulling our leg on that one. :big:

Conventional current from more positive potential to lesser positive.

NPN = collector more positive than base, reversed biased, and base more positive than emitter, forward biased. silicon transitor 

PNP the exact opposite...

Vbe = 0.6 - 0.7v. 

I'm just getting carried away, having fun with this post.

Any way just thought I would throw this in here for fun...

Looks like yur board is coming a long nice.
You;ll have it up and running in no time...


----------



## Maryak

Hobby,

Glad your having fun :bow:

I didn't understand a word of it; but that's not at all suprising. :-\ 

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## hobby

yeh, I know what ya mean.

I think the only part that makes any sense is when I wrote, " HI Zee",

after that it all becomes a bunch of jarble... Rof}


----------



## Deanofid

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Just a quickie post...
> 
> Found another pin I missed soldering...either eyesight or I can't count anymore (which might help Dean with the M&Ms).



Wha... huh? Did I hear my name mentioned along side the magic candies? 

I dunno anything about what's going on in this thread. "I know nothing... nothing" when it comes to all that 'lektronikal jibber-jabber, so I'm just looking at all the pretty pictures and listening for the mention of the sacred ovoid.

Good luck, Zee.

Dean


----------



## zeeprogrammer

hobby  said:
			
		

> Electron current from neg. to pos. But your just pulling our leg on that one.



Ha! Cheater..you got specific with the 'electron'. You're quite right, 'electron current' flows from neg to pos. But that's not how I was taught...I was taught 'current' flows from pos to neg. I was taught the 'hole' approach. :big:



			
				Maryak  said:
			
		

> Glad your having fun



Fun? Not really. It's made me remember why I wanted a hobby significantly different from my day job. Building the DRO is on my list of "I'll never do that again"...along with plastering wallboard and drinking rum.

I want this done so I can get back to machining and responding to everybody's threads.

Yeah...just finished soldering 8 wires to the wrong pins. Phoo.


----------



## hobby

Yeh but remember, the whole approach to the ,"hole approach" has to do with semiconductors only, once you get away from them thingies, the holes just don't add up anymore.

But pos. to neg. (conventional current flow, is the best way to understand signal generation, and amplification), I think the only time I use the cheating (electron) method is when I'm playing with the PNP transistors, and bias resistors.

But other than that conventional current (pos to neg.) rules... 

--------
"Building the DRO is on my list of "I'll never do that again"
-----------
I guess that means your not going to go into business building these and selling them to the rest of us in this group. :big:
--------------------

Looking forward to seeing your board in action...

Really I need to get back to my projects, I'm getting pulled away reading all these great posts, from these superb craftsman, with exceptional craftsmanship...

This is the freindliest forum out there. 
Everybody is really nice, and helpful,
 in answering replies, unlike some other forums out there.


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Zee, while you're sidelined there for awhile I thought I would throw this into the mix albeit a little off topic:

Many people think that electricity is electrons flowing at the speed of light but electrons actually flow quite slowly, at speeds on the order of centimeters per minute. And in AC circuits the electrons don't really flow at all, instead they sit in place and vibrate. It's the energy in the circuit which flows fast, not the electrons. 

Metals are always full of movable electrons. In a simple circuit, all of the wires are totally packed full of electrons all the time. And when a battery or generator pumps the electrons at one point in the circuit, electrons in the entire loop of the circuit are forced to flow, and energy spreads almost instantly throughout the entire circuit. This happens even though the electrons move very slowly. 

To aid your understanding, imagine a large wheel. If you give it a spin, the entire wheel moves as a unit, and this is how you transmit mechanical energy almost instantly to all parts of the wheel's rim. But notice that the wheel itself didn't move very fast. The material of the wheel is like the electrons in a wire. Electrical energy is like the "jerk", the mechanical energy wave which you sent to all parts of the wheel when you gave it a spin. Mechanical energy moves incredibly quickly to all parts of the wheel, but the wheel's atoms didn't have to travel rapidly in order for this to happen. 

-Trout


----------



## mklotz

Another way to think about it is to imagine the wire as a hose filled with tightly packed BBs (the electrons). If I push more BBs into one end of the hose, BBs will fall out of the other end at the same rate as they are pushed in. All the BBs move, but not nearly as fast as the input BBs *appear* to arrive at the output end of the hose.


----------



## marcel

this is something Caliper2PC project :





http://www.caliper2pc.de/index.html


----------



## hobby

Whoops, I CORRECTED my first post up above where I said the LED has a long lead for the neg. side.

I use LED's all the time for indicators to let me see the circuits working in the different stages. I don't know how I gave the wrong anser.... 

The neg. term. of an LED has a SHORTER lead, and a flat on the lens to denote the cathode.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

hobby  said:
			
		

> I guess that means your not going to go into business building these and selling them to the rest of us in this group.



You are correct sir.



			
				hobby  said:
			
		

> This is the freindliest forum out there.
> Everybody is really nice, and helpful,



You are, once again, correct sir. :big:



			
				Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> Many people think that electricity is electrons flowing at the speed of light but electrons actually flow quite slowly, at speeds on the order of centimeters per minute.





			
				mklotz  said:
			
		

> Another way to think about it is to imagine the wire as a hose filled with tightly packed BBs (the electrons). If I push more BBs into one end of the hose, BBs will fall out of the other end at the same rate as they are pushed in. All the BBs move, but not nearly as fast as the input BBs *appear* to arrive at the output end of the hose.



And not in an orderly manner. They're bouncing around, back and forth. Not an orderly movement. Like a bunch of drunks trying to get out of a bar...

Vielen Dank Marcel...I didn't know 'TAKT' meant clock. Your link took me on an interesting trip.

hobby...yeah that's what I remember...at least for the T1-3/4 package...the smaller ones don't have flats...and it was the flats I used to key the position.

So...

Not a lot of progress...got the boards wired up. Programmed a processor for some basic tests.

Connected a wall wart. The good news is that nothing smoked. 5V on the parts that are supposed to have 5V...1.5V on the parts that are supposed to have 1.5V.

But nothing else. No lights. No equivalent "Hello World". Might be time to borrow a scope from work.

Some bit of good news...I came across a bunch of stand-offs I had. I'll probably mount the board to a sheet of something and use a piece of plexi for the front...just mask it off so I can see the display but hide the fantastic wiring job I did. ;D

About here is where you say..."Humph...is that all?"


----------



## websterz

Humph...is that all?


----------



## zeeprogrammer

websterz  said:
			
		

> Humph...is that all?



 Rof} Rof} Rof}

That was great. Thanks.

Yeah...great forum...great people. ;D


----------



## black85vette

No smoke is good news. Thm: Lights coming on even better. ;D


----------



## ksouers

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> The good news is that nothing smoked.



Good, all the magic smoke stayed in the little boxes.



			
				zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> But nothing else. No lights.



Did you break the magic mirrors?


----------



## zeeprogrammer

It's been slow...too much going on...but I've made some progress...

A little tip of the hat to the forum...and a special message to that fellow we all know about...

Hope you enjoy...





Next up...connecting to a digital caliper and reading it....


----------



## black85vette

Rof} Rof} Rof} Rof} Rof} 

Great video as usual! Always encouraging to see the lights come on. Congrats!!  Thm:


----------



## Noitoen

Now I don't understand ??? Are you building a DRO or is it a RSS monitor? :-[


----------



## Foozer

Nothing better than "Shiny Things" to start the day out right.

looking good


Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Thanks Rick.

Noitoen...no way...sounds too much like work. But on that note...using alpha was just for fun and test...from here out it should be digits only...unless I need to give that one a guy another poke.

Robert! You've been more active lately. Is it getting warmer? Or has the house gotten colder so the workshop relatively warmer? ;D


----------



## Foozer

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Robert! You've been more active lately. Is it getting warmer? Or has the house gotten colder so the workshop relatively warmer? ;D



House colder, knew I needed to cut more wood but this "Hobby" was much more fun.

Keep trying to convince the Bride to let me use the spare room as a shop, something about her hands on hips, tapping foot and raised eyebrow responce that I should just avoid pushing further


----------



## vlmarshall

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> It's been slow...too much going on...but I've made some progress...
> Next up...connecting to a digital caliper and reading it....



Sorry to see you're having so much trouble with it! That looks like a serious malfunction.
Good luck. ;D


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Oh. Sound quality that poor? Monitor too dirty? Check your speakers and clean the screen. But here...maybe this will help in case that 'fellow' has the same problem...

*bEEr!
PAy UP
U rAt!*

Allow me to translate...

BEER! PAY UP. YOU RAT!

If he still has questions he can reach me at 555-8728

And if you're wondering...

2nd letter of first 8
3rd letter of 7
1st letter of 2
1st letter of last 8

And no, it's not IVTE...look at your phone. ;D


----------



## Deanofid

Just translating from the way my daughter sends me emails from her portable phone.
(She's way too old to be typing like that).
This is it, right;

"You are a T" ? 

What kinda "T". Mr. T? 

I'm sure this is some kind of secret message and I'm going to get a prize of some sort. 
Right, Zee?


Ehh. I toldja 'letroniks confused me...

Naed

Oh! gr8 vid, btw, lol.


----------



## Twmaster

ROTFL LOLAPIMP!

There ya go Dean....


----------



## Deanofid

Mike, I don't think I want to know what the last few capital letters there mean. 
My daughter never sent me anything like that!

DW


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## SAM in LA

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> ROTFL LOLAPIMP!
> 
> There ya go Dean....



I put LOLAPIMP into BING and it only came back with 2 links, and neither was a solution.


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## black85vette

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> I put LOLAPIMP into BING and it only came back with 2 links, and neither was a solution.



One place to find stuff like that is the Urban Dictionary

www.urbandictionary.com

laughing out loud and peeing in my pants


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## zeeprogrammer

sigh...

TUV PQRS ABS TUV
8   7   2   8
2nd 3rd  1st  1st

"u rat"

I'm starting to think there's more than one.

And yeah...I have to admit I had to google LOLAPIMP myself. I couldn't bring myself to ask my kids...I couldn't take the chance I'd be embarrassed. I do enough of that here. ;D...and at work...and in public...rats.


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## zeeprogrammer

Brought a scope home for the weekend...here's a shot of what the clock and data lines look like from the caliper. A bit noisy but filterable. I'll add a capacitor anyway.







The first burst of 24 clocks is the position relative to zero (that you set). The second burst is the position relative to an absolute zero that gets set when the caliper powers up.

Trapped at home!!! Here's a shot of today's snow...


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## zeeprogrammer

Got the tach hooked up over the weekend and could see the change in signal on the scope when I changed lathe speed. But I don't have the timer right so the display isn't showing the correct speed.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to set this little project aside for a while. Pressure at work has increased to the point that doing more embedded programming when I get home is the last thing I want to do. Struggling to get workshop time as it is...and my judgment is suffering.

Can't wait for the trials to be over. In June!!!

It'd be different if the job were eating pizza (I can eat that for every meal of every day)...or curry!!! Curry!!! Oh man I love curry...you guys in the UK have it great!

See what I mean about judgment?


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## Deanofid

Ya had me at pizza.


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## zeeprogrammer

Last post here was Feb 10.

Finally got my package of parts yesterday...ordered in February.

Includes connectors, capacitors, caps for the buttons...and the more important bridge rectifiers and transistors for the lathe/mill (which I didn't need as it turned out).

Order was delayed cause I stupidly said to wait until all parts were available. Was waiting for the caps for the buttons.

Then delayed again because, in the meantime, a fraud alert was put on the credit card and the card canceled. Had to give them the new information.

"Does this mean I'm back on the DRO?" you ask?

No. Work is such that doing any programming when I get home is the last thing I want to do.

"Then why the post?" you ask?

To remind myself it's still hanging around....that or to move it up a page.

Yeah yeah. You all already know I can be rank about that. :big:


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## 4156df

Zee,
I had forgotten about this thread. Nearly crapped when I scrolled and saw the snow photo. Then I realized that was in Feb, not today.
Dennis


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## T70MkIII

Zee - I'll bring this up a page or two.

I assume you are going to power the calipers from the Shumatech board. Are you going to put a capacitor across the caliper battery terminals? If so, what value are you going to use? I've seen 4.7uF up to 100uF mentioned elsewhere but no rationale given for the particular choice. I was wondering if you've calculated something more specific. 

Without knowing any electronic theory I would have thought the higher value would filter better, up to a limit.


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## zeeprogrammer

4156df  said:
			
		

> I had forgotten about this thread.



I was trying to.



			
				T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> I assume you are going to power the calipers from the Shumatech board. Are you going to put a capacitor across the caliper battery terminals? If so, what value are you going to use? I've seen 4.7uF up to 100uF mentioned elsewhere but no rationale given for the particular choice. I was wondering if you've calculated something more specific.



Hi 70MkIII. I have to admit I'm not sure I'm going to take this any further. If you've been reading the thread...it involves a little too much of the kind of stuff I do for a living. And therefore not real relaxing. ;D Some other people (Trout for one) have come up with DROs that I think are more to my liking. A bit more money maybe...but simpler to install and use. I don't need the fancy stuff the Shumatech provides. I just want to see a display of my position.

But to answer your question...I haven't done any calculations at all. I was going by what Shumatech and other have used. If I recall correctly, the higher value is better. 100uF sounds right but I haven't checked.

Darn. You made me read the thread some. It talks about my stuff at work going to trial in June. Nope. Now it's September. It's a long summer.

Thanks for looking in.


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## T70MkIII

Thanks, Zee - I asked because I have a 350 winging its way towards me, so I've been re-reading all the threads I can find. If I hadn't picked it up so cheaply on eBay (I don't need the other functionality either, but this is a pre-built PCB) I would have probably gone the other way myself - so to speak. I'll whip up some cables, grab some cheap calipers and give it a whirl.

Best of luck with the other DRO solution. It looks like a good one too.


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## johnthomp

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Carl,
> 
> I went the route you are taking a few years ago on my previous mill.
> 
> Even though these digiverns are a cheapy variety, they do need to be treated with respect when it comes to chopping them about. Your problem might be on reassembly, and you haven't got the correct pressure on the phos bronze wiper strip that runs along the edge of the main scale bit. They can be a bit fiddly to get back into the correct position and adjusted up.
> 
> Over the years, I found this was the most common area for failure, especially when you were half way thru a job. You need to get that wiper adjusted so that it doesn't lock the unit up, but still allow a good clean contact. The other main area of failure is the carbon pick up strips on the back of the display itself, especially thru condensation, you will get spurious readouts on the display. That requires a rather delicate strip down job of the whole display unit and the tracks very carefully cleaned down with methylated spirits.
> 
> Using digiverns and read heads of this design is fine, but I found that were rather unreliable at the best of times, even when well protected. Eventually, after about 3 years, and having many spare heads to swap over at a couple of minutes notice, I gave up on them and went to glass scale versions. After spending copious amounts of money replacing the scales, it worked out cheaper and less frustrating in the long run to swap over.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, they are a relatively cheap method of getting a DRO system, and they do work accurately most of the time. But this type of scale, no matter what anyone tells you, is not designed to work in the environment you will be putting it into, especially if you use suds as well.
> The only reason they manufacture the scales in all lengths is because people still think they can get a good working system from them, and the manufacturers will continue to produce anything if it makes them money, whether it is fit for purpose or not.
> 
> I do still use one of this type on the quill Z axis of my mill, but only because it is out of the way of all the nasties, plus I have done away with the battery problems (another thing that needs to be addressed) by running it on a small power supply that a friend very kindly made for me.
> 
> That is just the way it didn't really work for me, it just might be OK for yourself.
> 
> BTW, when mounting it onto the tailstock, you really need to get something on there to compensate for the twisting motion of the barrel. I would suggest a double ended ball joint available from most model shops.
> 
> Blogs


  sorry for butting in here fellas but the dj world can help with cleaning the tiny carbon strips on digital readout components i used to be a dj and had at one point serious trouble with fag ash ruining my crossfaders switches and sliders and evry time they failed would be during a live performance i used to strip them down clean them up with meths and rebuild the mixer unit during live performances and who says us men cant multitask it was a well known party showoff trick i had doing all that but still playing a flawless 2 hour set 
    i later discovered an aerosol chemical for cleaning electronic switches wich became affectionaly known as crossfader in a can and i think its still available on
 HTFR.com they mainly deal with evrything a dj could need but some things they supply have a multitude of tasks and capabilities for anything


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## T70MkIII

Thanks for the tip, John.


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