# Kerzel a'la Tel



## tel (Nov 30, 2010)

I haven't posted much on this build, as I didn't want to intrude too much on Brian's excellent coverage of his build, but as Brian's version enters its final few struggles to completion I thought I might just give a few progress shots now & then.

The last couple of wet days has finally allowed me to get a little bit of progress in - it now sports a crankshaft, oilers on the mains and the cylinder liner. Very pleased with the crakshaft - went down the Loctite/pins road with this one and it seems to have come out very well indeed. Stuck with CI for the liner - I don't think a tiny bit of rust in the hopper will bother me, if anything it will help seal any little leaks if my Loctite bond is less than perfect.


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## metalmad (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi Tel
will be following along as the hit n miss engines are among my favorite (today at least 
looking great so far 
cheers Pete


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 30, 2010)

Looks really good Tel.---Looks really familiar!!!! At the rate I'm going with my valve sealing issues, you may be running before I am.----Brian


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## kustomkb (Nov 30, 2010)

Looking good Tel! Keep it coming.


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## Troutsqueezer (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm glad to see a mini-boom in the building of hit & miss engines lately, it will help me as I progress with mine (back burner temporarily).

Did you make the gears Tel?

That's a nice start, I like the oil cups.


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## tel (Nov 30, 2010)

Thanks blokes, it's coming along slowly but surely.

Yeah Dennis - I cut those gears from CI. Kerzel's drawings give details of the gears in 32DP and 48DP - I have cutters for neither, but I do have 40DP cutters, which luckily fall half way between his, allowing me to do a set at 25/50 with the same outside dimensions as his 20/40 and 30/60 ones.


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## Artie (Nov 30, 2010)

That looks the ticket! Did you cut those on the shaper or the mill? Thats a skill I really want to tackle soon..... Well done bloke... looking forward to seeing it running in your collection of goodies...


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## Artie (Nov 30, 2010)

stoopid me.. you had the 40dp cutter... must have been the mill.....


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## tel (Dec 5, 2010)

Creeping right along


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## metalmad (Dec 5, 2010)

Hi Tel
looking great so far


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## tel (Dec 9, 2010)

Both flywheels are milled out now, and the cosmetic work well undedr way but I needed a break from eating all that cast iron dust, so yesterday I had a play with making a couple of sparkplugs - something I've never done before.

This morning I was able to scab the coil out of an old Briggs motor and set up a test rig - happy happy joy joy! Both plugs produce a nice fat spark. The larger plug is 5/16 x 32 tpi, more or less to Kerzel's general dimensions but it looked a bit out of proportion to me, hence the smaller one 1/4 x 40 tpi.


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## metalmad (Dec 9, 2010)

Hi Tel
plugs look good 
have u started on the head yet?
Pete


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## tel (Dec 9, 2010)

Not yet, probably tomorrow - Mrs Tel permitting! :-[


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## bearcar1 (Dec 9, 2010)

You're way out ahead of me on your build Tel, but believe me when I say, I'm right there with you in spirit. You have my full attention. I also like your smaller version of the plug and am anxious to see it actually in the head. Are you planning to use valve cages as in Brian R's interpretation of this engine or follow what D. Kerzel spelled out in his drawings?

G'day

BC1
Jim


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## arnoldb (Dec 9, 2010)

Coming along nicely Tel!

"eating all that cast iron dust" - at least you can skip on the spinach next time 'round 

Regards, Arnold


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## tel (Dec 9, 2010)

Thanks blokes - I'm really enjoying the bit of time I can put into this build - it's something of uncharted waters for me!



> Are you planning to use valve cages as in Brian R's interpretation of this engine or follow what D. Kerzel spelled out in his drawings?



I'm keeping my options open Jim, but MkI head (ci) will be machined direct, a'la Kerzel - things get a bit busy in that little head and you need all the room you can get. Another reason for the smaller plug.


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## bearcar1 (Dec 9, 2010)

Uncharted waters indeed Tel. This was to be my first venture into the unknown I.C.world but things got sidetracked. However, I have been watching with great interest to see how certain aspects of this one are tackled. That head is certainly "busy", that is for sure, I have the head in mine drilled for a 1/4" plug thread but have yet to cut the threads in it. The jury is still out for me on the valve cage thing, although it may come down to using them if the original design and my skill sets don't co-operate well with each other. :big:

Regards

BC1
Jim


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## tel (Dec 9, 2010)

I wonder how long you have to be in this game before you stop doing stoopid things? Obviously 30 odd years is not long enough!

1.The embryo head.




2. And the one I didn't bugger up.




3. The problem.




4. Just for you Jim


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## kustomkb (Dec 10, 2010)

Hey Tel, looking good. Sorry about the bugger. It's funny how we can get tunnel vision, know it doesn't feel right and only when it jumps right in our faces, do we realize.

I really like being able to see the grain of the material you have there.


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## tel (Dec 10, 2010)

Stoopid, stoopid me mate, I set up the mill and then forgot to lock the head to the colomn, dinni. All is not lost, I'll salvage that rooned one by making a flat belt drive pulley out of it.


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## metalmad (Dec 10, 2010)

yes kustom it really has a bulletproof look to it, doesn't it 
I like it too


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## fcheslop (Dec 10, 2010)

Know the feeling maybe that's why my scrap box keeps growing.Best of luck with the build its on my to do list
Best wishes Frazer


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## tel (Dec 11, 2010)

;D I know the feeling, but I kept this one out of the scrap box.

'Tel suits action to words'

sorry about the fuzzy pic - batteries are getting down.


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 11, 2010)

Get some batteries Tel. We need more pics and a video.


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## ozzie46 (Dec 11, 2010)

Looking good Tel.


 Ron


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## Artie (Dec 11, 2010)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Get some batteries Tel. We need more pics and a video.



Oh Zee, thats soooo funny.... Ive had the honour to visit Tels empire a little while ago.. and I want to 'Tell' you of the journey... 

The Big Fella met me at the town square (isnt Macca's car park every towns square?) and from there I followed him out to his lair.... this took some 3 hours 19 minutes and required negotiating several flooded creek crossings, 2 guarded gates (triple pad locked), switchbacks and 3 point turn hairpins, mountain crests which (if you loooked closely) were guarded by (obviously) trained killer 'Roos.

Upion arrival I was made to park in an open paddock some distance from the Villa while I and my car were scanned electronically for illicite substance and (most probably) weapons of mass destruction, happily, Just like with George W, none were found..

Only then was I permitted to view some of the 'state secret' undergoings... many of which (but not all) have been displayed here.. In fact you have only seen a part of the 'great mans' offerings...ask him.. he might oblige... a very nice steam loco sitting on tracks caught my eye....

Point is... if he's out of batteries.... it may well be a looooong time afore he gets fresh ones..... :big:


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## metalmad (Dec 11, 2010)

HI Tel 
u need me to put a couple of batterys in the mail?
im only up the track a bit ;D
Pete


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## tel (Dec 12, 2010)

She'll be right thanks mate - it's only a five day camel ride into town - when the creeks go down!


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## bearcar1 (Dec 12, 2010)

'Tis nice to see the proper geometry used on that belt pulley, Tel old buddy. It aggravates me no end to see pulleys that have been made with no crown on them whatsoever. As far as the seemingly harse conditions in the area, maybe it's time to move out of the slums and over to the other side of the mountain :big: :big: :big:


BC1
Jim B.


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## tel (Dec 15, 2010)

The other side of the mountain? :hDe: Thar be dragones!

Divererted from the main build again to play with doing a carby - a nice change from the CI. Pretty much straight to the Kerzel drawing, with a little air cleaner added. Inspired by Brian's ant, erm efforts, I rigged up a rough and ready test - with the mixture screw open 1 1/2 turns light breathe pressure will lift kerosine up a 5" tube and dispense it as a fine spray.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 15, 2010)

Looks very elegant Tel---show me a picture of the taper on your needle valve please. Did you read the part in my Kerzel post where I warn you about the rotation of your engine? If you make it rotate the same way as Ronald the Kiwi did, it unscrews the stub shaft which the cam gear rides on and both the gear and the cam will fall off in operation.---brian


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## tel (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks Brian. Yes I did see that about the direction of rotation, and have been pondering the matter, you solution could well be the best way, as that shaft needs to be removed to do anything with the cam/timing. Bit hesitant to put loctite in there for that reason.

The other thing that did occur was to make the end a shouldered bolt, with a nut on the inside and a locking screw going down from the top of the bearing block. I'll let you know what I end up going with.

I'll get a pic of the needle when daylight is upon us - 3am is not a good time for that sort of activity, Mrs Tel tends to get grumpy.


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## tel (Dec 15, 2010)

AS promised Brian - nothing fancy, just a bit of 8BA all thread 'had at' with a file - might need some refinement later, but the initial breath tests indicate it is ok, with a reasonable working range.

I'll post it over on your thread as well


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks Tel---Looks a lot like what I have only I didn't use a spring.


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## tel (Dec 16, 2010)

... and finished it off with a nicer twiddly bit!


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## bearcar1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Outstanding Tel. I like the decorative flair that you incorporated into a generally mundane and box-ish looking piece. That mesh screen invokes memories of a distant past college life. You do know that you might get stopped at the border on suspicion if you tried to take your engine out of the country don't you? :big:

BC1
Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2010)

TEL--when you built that carb, did you solder the two main peices together or loctite them? I soldered mine, and had problems---thought afterwards that probably loctite would have been sufficient.


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## tel (Dec 16, 2010)

The 'bottom; section is a press fit, with a tiny smear of retainer where it comes thru at the top. Hope it works out OK, but I could forsee problems with silver soldering it. Perhaps a bit of soft solder would suffice.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2010)

Sorry to keep asking you all these questions---what diameter did you make the bleed hole that bleeds gasoline out into the air stream?---Brian


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## tel (Dec 16, 2010)

1mm (0.039") mate, same as the orifice for the needle.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2010)

Yep, thats what I did too.---Thanks


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## Deanofid (Dec 16, 2010)

All looking good, Tel. The little carb is a nice clean looking unit. I like your 'bug screen' there. 
Makes it look the business!


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## tel (Jan 3, 2011)

Well I haven't been completely idle over the Christmas break - here's where I'm up to now.





It's getting a bit busy in there already, so, like Brian, I have more or less decided to move the points to the 'off' side, not least because then I can arrange for independent adjustment of the exhaust and spark timing.





Unlike Brian, tho', I have decided to incorporate a second set of timing gears so I can get back to a spark per cycle. With this in mind I cut a second set of gears today.


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## steamer (Jan 3, 2011)

Looking good Tel. I am really liking these builds.

Dave


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## ozzie46 (Jan 3, 2011)

Won't be long now, will it Tel?

 Looks great. 

 Ron


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 3, 2011)

Tel---I think you are doing an outstanding job on the Kerzel engine. As you have seen, mine does run, but not yet the way I want it to. I am very happy with the engine as a "total package", and many of the troubles I've had are more the result of my "amateur machinist" abilities, rather than any basic flaw in the engine design. I give you my best wishes that when you go to fire it up the first time that it runs and runs well.----Brian


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## tel (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks blokes, this IC business has been a rather sharp learning curve for me, but I have high hopes - things are looking promising!


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## ToniTD1490 (Jan 3, 2011)

Nice work, "master". Could you put any pics how do you cut the gears?

ToniTD


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## tel (Jan 3, 2011)

I'll try Toni, the mill is still set up to do them, so if I get a chance I'll turn another blank and cut a spare.


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## cfellows (Jan 3, 2011)

Nice work, Tel. Now your getting close to the "Heart Thumping" part of the build!

Chuck


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## tel (Jan 3, 2011)

;D Yes indeed - it's stirring already!


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## tel (Jan 3, 2011)

OK, Toni, and anyone else that might be interested - here's some shots.

There is not really a lot to see with gear cutting, the whole process is just repetition and relies on a good, solid set-up and some sort of procedure or order.

First, select a bit of stuff for the blank, turn the boss, face it, drill and ream for the bore.





Turn it end for end in the chuck and bring it down to the calculated outside diameter -i n this case 50t x 40 dp = 50 + 2 / 40 = 52/40 = 50 12/40 = 1 3/10" a handy 1.3" 





If you need/want a shallow clearance boss on the face, now is the time to cut it.





Then set the blank on a mandrel and set it for centre height and depth of cut - I have omitted these steps as the mill was already set for this particular gear.





The dividing device uses is my handy, home made 'Harold Hall' simple dividing head.





The first gap is cut





and if all appears to be well, the indexing & cutting continues. Here we are cutting a 50t gear using a 50 master, so it's just every tooth. At a bit over a quarter of the way around the teeth heave into view.





Over half way now





not many to go! 





All cut, when the last gap is cut, index back into what was the first space, if the tool cuts air you will know that nothing has moved and all should be well - if not, swear and scream for a while, toss the part in the bin and go back to square one.





And here it is (b/right) with the two I cut yesterday.





Talk about fate, or coincidence, or karma ..... while I was setting up for that last shot a bloke arrived that needs two little brass gears doing - you guessed it 40dp x 25t, how lucky can he be!


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## hobby (Jan 3, 2011)

Thankyou for taking the time to put together that great instructional, on gearing.


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## doc1955 (Jan 3, 2011)

Nice Tel! Very Nice! That's a nice set up for gear cutting and a nice set of gears! :bow:
You have a very nice lookin engine there looking forward to hearing it come to life!


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## tel (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks blokes. Just a little postscript to the other set of gears I mentioned, then we can move on.

As I needed two identical gears this time, a dual 'time-saver' blank was prepared.





And cut as before





then parted off and cleaned up. Sorry about the quality of thes pic - the light was fast going when I took 'em.


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## tel (Jan 12, 2011)

Not a lot of visual difference this update, but just to keep all y'awl in the loop.

The second set of timing gears has been installed.





Rocker arm (tappet) and bracket made and fitted - still needs some final shaping and finishing.





Two overall views as of today. Now to figure out what I'm doing about points.


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## kustomkb (Jan 13, 2011)

Looking good Tel!

Won't be long now eh? like I said before, the grain showing through on your stock looks awesome.

Slick dividing head too!


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## metalmad (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi tel
as usual you have inspired me.
I love the extra gear train, but I hope the extra drag of the twin gear train will not make it hard to get it missing ?
After being being flooded in the other day I started on a my own Kerzel using as much as possable bits of scrap.
I had promised myself not to start any new projects until I got a better vise for my mill,but i was isolated for a couple of days and the metal called.


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## tel (Jan 13, 2011)

Thm: ONYA MM, nice to see another one underway. This one is almost entirely out of scrap material, so it can be done. There is almost no drag at all on either of the gear trains, I did spend a bit of time getting them pretty right and they run very freely with next to no backlash. 

At the moment I am experimenting with a Honeywell microswitch in place of the points, although I will probably go back and make points at some stage. The microswitch, again, operates with virtually no friction, so I'm living in hope.


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## T70MkIII (Jan 14, 2011)

Looking great, Tel. I've thought about building the Harold Hall myself...


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 14, 2011)

Tel---I haven't seen you mention it, but how is the compression? Are your valves sealing okay?---God, I hope they are!!!!----Brian


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## tel (Jan 14, 2011)

There's compression there Brian, the piston bounces back from it about a third of the way into the compression stroke with a light flick of the flywheel. I still have to fiddle with the spring on the inlet valve tho' - sans spring the valve sucks in perfectly, with spring it barely flickers, so a coil or two off the spring, methinks. The valves bedded down without any real problems, but, in the event, I couldn't find my closely guarded old double tin of compound, was stuck with using the fine end of a new tin of 'Pep' - worked that down until all trace of grittiness had disappeared then finished up with Brasso.


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## tel (Jan 14, 2011)

Did some experimenting yesterday and all indications are that the microswitch will work, and it doesn't look too badly out of place on the engine, so I'll go with that for the time being.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 14, 2011)

tel  said:
			
		

> There's compression there Brian, the piston bounces back from it about a third of the way into the compression stroke with a light flick of the flywheel. I still have to fiddle with the spring on the inlet valve tho' - sans spring the valve sucks in perfectly, with spring it barely flickers, so a coil or two off the spring, methinks. The valves bedded down without any real problems, but, in the event, I couldn't find my closely guarded old double tin of compound, was stuck with using the fine end of a new tin of 'Pep' - worked that down until all trace of grittiness had disappeared then finished up with Brasso.



All I can say is---You must have led a cleaner life than me!!!!---Or something!!! ;D ;D ;D


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## tel (Jan 14, 2011)

;D The proof of the pudding will be in the eating, mate, and we ain't et yet!


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## cfellows (Jan 14, 2011)

Tel, the microswitch will work for a while, but most likely will fail before long if you're just using a standard coil and condenser system. The contacts in those microswitches aren't designed to handle the current and voltage spikes that occur in this kind of ignition circuit.

But, the engine does look very nice. Let's hope it starts right up for you!

Chuck


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## tel (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks Chuck, the microswitch is really just a temporary measure until I can get some suitable materials to make proper points, AND I have a jar full of 'em, if it fails fairly quickly.


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## tel (Jan 16, 2011)

Meanwhile, a start on the fuel tank.





And a little flight of fancy, one of those little details that, IMHO, make a model.


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## metalmad (Jan 16, 2011)

Hi Tel
you must be getting close now?
looking forward to the event !!


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## doc1955 (Jan 16, 2011)

Lookin nice Tel!
I like the tank sweeet!


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## tel (Jan 17, 2011)

'Best laid plans and so forth' dept.

As much as I liked the tank tucked in under the head like that, it suddenly dawned that it will be trying to occupy the same space as the muffler, so it has to move - probably to somewhere like this for the time being.


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## Blogwitch (Jan 17, 2011)

A very nice no nonsense build there Tel, I am sure you will have no problems getting it to run.

With regards to what Chuck says about microswitches.

If they are not abused (say too much movement on the button) they should give between 2 & 3 million operations before falling apart.

So if the engine runs at 2k, half that for a 4 stroke, at the lower limit of 2 million operations, that should give you 2000 minutes (just over 33 hours) of continuous operation before it needs replacing, that is of course if Chuck's burnt away points don't getchya first.

So to my mind, more than enough to be getting on with.

Best of luck with it.


Bogs


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## steam5 (Jan 17, 2011)

Its a great build Tel. I have to have a good look at that engine


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## tel (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks blokes, I'm pretty pleased with it so far. And yes Bogs, I like my engines to have a plain, workaday sort of look to 'em - just a matter of taste I guess


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 17, 2011)

I like it with the tank away too.
It's an interesting item and should be seen.


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## bearcar1 (Jan 17, 2011)

Tel, I've always admired your work. Always utilitarian looking as well as functional. That tank filler neck is a fine example of what I am talking about. I like it! Thm: I have been pondering (that is armchair engineering daydreaming) about incorporating the fuel tank inside the mounting plinth as in some full sized engines, but alas, it is just something else to hope to do. Man I can't wait to hear this one fire off, it's getting so close. I'm really going to be watching when you go to make your own set of points (to plan?).

regards
BC1
Jim


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## doc1955 (Jan 17, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I like it with the tank away too.
> It's an interesting item and should be seen.


I agree I like that tank it is a really nice looking piece no matter where you place it.


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## tel (Jan 17, 2011)

Blocks bolted to the base board and tank strapped down.





A little oopsy when locating the second end of the second strap, but I can live with that.


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## arnoldb (Jan 19, 2011)

Thm: ;D

Regards, Arnold


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 20, 2011)

Tel--I am passing the Kerzel torch to you. I have done everything I can think of to mine, and I'm about 95% happy with the way the build turned out. From the looks of things, you will be ready to start yours soon, and I am REALLY looking foreward to a video.---Brian


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## tel (Jan 22, 2011)

And now the 'fun' begins. Had a session with it today - lashed up a rough ignition 'system' with a Briggs coil and a few odds and ends. No luck so far, but it was interesting nevertheless. I think I've got the timing pretty close, it is getting fuel and I _seem_ to have enough compression, certainly have enough vacuum. Tried for quite a while but couldn't get it to cough. Methinks I'll have to do a better ignition set-up before anything happens. 

Got some proper 1/8" spark plug wire on order - that might help.

In the meantime I might make a start on the bits for the governor.


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## gbritnell (Jan 22, 2011)

Hi Tel,
Have you actually checked for spark? I have tried to use magneto type coils in the past, running them on 6 or 12 volts without much luck. It seems like the magneto puts out a lot more voltage to operate the coils properly. 
gbritnell


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## tel (Jan 22, 2011)

Well yes George, in a way. I've tested the set-up with another plug (external) and there is spark to it, but whether it is happening inside the engine is another matter. I'm using a car battery charger as the power source at the moment, and can see no real change in the spark by switching from 12v to 6v, and the amp meter is showing the cut-off when the switch circuit opens. 

Truth is, I haven't really given a lot of thought to the ignition as I've been focused on the engine build, but it is now to the point where I will have to decide on what to use for the finished product - 'fraid it's an area I don't know much about. Any advice/words of wisdom appreciated!


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## arnoldb (Jan 22, 2011)

> ...car battery charger as the power source...



Can you try a real battery Tel ? - maybe borrow the ute's for a couple of minutes...

98% of car battery chargers I've encountered only rectifies incoming AC, with no "smoothing" at all. Without going into the techie details, you're at a severe disadvantage by just using the battery charger, as it does not necessarily have the instantaneous oomph required to fire the coil for a good spark, especially in a higher pressure environment such as inside the cylinder. 

Kind regards, Arnold


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## putputman (Jan 22, 2011)

Tel, is there any chance you can get your hands on an old Model T Ford buzz coil. They work very well on these old hit & miss engines. I use a 6V battery on mine. I think some people use 8V for more zapp.


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## swilliams (Jan 22, 2011)

Here's a couple of thoughts on how things work as I understand them. I'm not suggesting any direct practical action that should be taken as a consequence of this. Just having a basic idea of how it works can be very helpful when trouble shooting.

The function of the capacitor (often called a condenser in the automotive business) is to prolong the life of the points, not to improve the spark. It stops the points from arcing.

From a black box point of view the coil works like this. The voltage induced across the secondary winding is proportional to how fast the current changes in the primary. When the points open the current in the primary drops very rapidly, inducing a large voltage across the secondary. That large voltage makes the spark. The spark comes solely from the energy which has been stored in the coil. The energy in the coil is proportional to the square of the current through the primary just before opening the points. 

It is quite correct to discuss the coil in terms of a collapsing magnetic field. That involves more detail about what is happening inside the coil and is more advanced than the black box description given above.

As to whether the capacitor could effectively smooth out the rough power supply, as suggested by Pat, and thus improve things, I have no idea.

my 2c

Steve


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## RICHARDDV (Jan 22, 2011)

http://www.lindsaybks.com/arch/spark/index.html

 try this for a buzz box unit. it is a 6 volt model t type coil made from a phelon magneto coil from a tecumseh engine ignition. looks good and also works very well .  richard valentine


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## bearcar1 (Jan 22, 2011)

A coil is not a storage device of energy, a capacitor is. The only two influences upon a coil that will increase its 'firepower', is either an increase of input voltage on the primary side of the circuit, and/or, by altering the number of winding turns of the secondary side of the device itself. The condenser (capacitor) in the circuit is for reducing any arcing across the points when they transition from closed to open. 

BC1 
Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 22, 2011)

Tel--There are many ignition systems out there, and they have some marvelous small electronic packages now. These are however relatively expensive---and if they don't work, there is almost no way to test or repair them. I stuck with an automobile points, condenser, coil, and 12 volt battery because thats what I know. I made my own sparkplug, just to see if I could, and it worked---some of the time. Trouble was, I was never shure if my problems getting my engine to run were caused by my sparkplug, or something else. Thats why I finally bought a "factory made" sparkplug. My theory about building an I.C. engine was that the more "unknowns" that I had to deal with, the less chance I had of getting the engine to run.----Brian


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## doc1955 (Jan 22, 2011)

I believe Pat is spot on with his description of the condenser function.


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## swilliams (Jan 22, 2011)

Pat: I largely agree with what you say and don't wish to quibble.

I think you will find that in the Kettering ignition, things are arranged such that all the energy that ends up in the spark comes from the coil. I also think you will find that increasing the capacitance will increase the sustain of the spark, without changing it's energy significantly. The capacitor doesn't speed up the collapse, it slows it down, see http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html
Of course these statements are made by ignoring the detrimental effect on the spark due to arcing. It's probably fair to assume that arcing slows the collapse and it certainly reduces the energy going to the spark plug. In this way the capacitor may indirectly speed up the collapse.

Sorry for getting off topic. I sincerely don't wish to quibble, Tel I promise not to pollute your fine thread with anymore inane theoretical nonsense.

Steve


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## tel (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks for the input everyone, plenty of food for though there while I rummage through my vast collection of junque looking for components.


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## kustomkb (Jan 23, 2011)

Your engine looks fantastic Tel, I hope you get it sorted in short order.


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## tel (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks Kevin, so do I, but it will be a case of 'hasten slowly' I think, while I get me 'ead around the ignition.


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## doc1955 (Jan 23, 2011)

I have confidence in you. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out and going. It is a nice looking piece of work!


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 23, 2011)

Tel--Here is a helpfull suggestion for you that has nothing to do with ignition points. I found this engine was such a touchy beastie to get running smoothly, that I must have had that damned "Kerzel lever" on and off about a hundred times. That lever is normally held in place by a .094" diameter pin. I took a peice of .125 steel rod about 3" long and turned 3/4" on the end of it down to .094" dia. with a slight angled lead to make insertion easy. The 3/4" is long enough to keep the pin from jumping out of place when the engine does start to run. This way it was very quick and easy to remove the pin and the "Kerzel arm" to get the engine running smoothly in non hit and miss mode. I liked it so much that this morning I took one of my old brass governor balls and threaded it onto the end of the rod as a permanent fixture. Now I can easily run the engine in conventional mode or in "hit and miss" mode. You will also see that I cut that extended "thumb" off the "Kerzel lever"---It served no practical purpose, and I found that the face of the thumb would ride against the cam follower support and create a "feed back drag" on the brass sliding spool. If you don't fully understand that bit, you will when you get your governors functioning.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 23, 2011)

I may be singing to the choir here, as I don't know how much experience you have with i.c. engines, but---a good place to start with the valve timing is to rotate the engine in the direction it would normally run untill its almost at bottom dead center coming off the power stroke. At 15 degrees before bottom dead center, the valve cam-lobe should just be starting to contact the roller bearing that is attached to the end of the push rod assembly. The ignition timing should be set up so that the points open to generate a spark at the sparkplug about 10 degrees before the piston reaches top dead center on the compression stroke. These are "starting points" only, but assuming everything else is kosher, your engine should start and run at those settings.---Brian


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## tel (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks Brian, I might have to advance the spark a little bit then as I have it 'firing' (or set to) almost right on TDC. Think the exhaust is about right tho'.

I like the idea of the slop oin in the kerzel arm - I'll be doing that for sure.


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## tel (Feb 10, 2011)

OK, just an update. Still held up for some ignition parts - might 'ave to bite the bullet an b.. b.... b... buy some! Meanwhile some more bits n pieces have been added

1. Flyweights - one spring very obviously had a mishap and has to be redone.





2. The bobbin and yoke from the inside





3. Muffler





4. Wasn't real happy with the original oiler I did, with the plastic 'glass', so got hold of some of these 2ml perfume sample bottles





5. And turned one into a bit of oiler





6. New oiler





7. And had a play with decals for the tank





Watch this space.


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## metalmad (Feb 10, 2011)

Hi Tel 
looking good now
love the trendy decal ;D
Pete


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## bearcar1 (Feb 10, 2011)

quote: 4. Wasn't real happy with the original oiler I did, with the plastic 'glass', so got hold of some of these 2ml perfume sample bottles...


I'll bet all the blokes down at Gunny's were just thrilled when you came in after that :big: 

Looking good Tel' old buddy, when will we see it running? and I do hope you haven't had to go through all that crappy weather that we keep hearing about on the news.

BC1
Jim


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## tel (Feb 10, 2011)

> I'll bet all the blokes down at Gunny's were just thrilled when you came in after that



 Rof} Rof}

Thanks blokes.

Those decals are probably not the finished product, I'd like to come up with something a little more 'Olde Worlde', but I was keen to have a play with the inkjet paper. ;D


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## SignalFailure (Feb 10, 2011)

Only just caught up with this one mate, great stuff :bow: (even if there's no steam involved :big


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## tel (Feb 10, 2011)

Rof} Yeah, I've gone over to the _*DARK SIDE!*_


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## Troutsqueezer (Feb 11, 2011)

There are a few of us over here Tel. So far, it's too dark to tell what the heck we are doing! Well, maybe for me. May I suggest Trout Green for a color?

I see this is also a capacitor and inductor instruction thread. 

Trout's explanation, feel free to not read. :big:

The capacitor helps to protect the points by limiting voltage across the contacts, so the contacts themselves won't spark. It also forms a bit of a resonant circuit with the coil, and that way enhances the spark. 

The coil is charged when the points close. The actual spark is generated when the breaker contacts open. The abrupt change in current will cause a very large voltage to be produced. This produces a very short, very high voltage spike. Of course, the change in current is on the primary side, but because the primary and secondary coils have a large mutual inductance you get a spike on the order of 100 or more volts on the primary, and 10000 volts on the secondary.

It's as simple as that. Or is it....


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## tel (Feb 11, 2011)

scratch.gif

Trout green eh? With a red lateral line?


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## Troutsqueezer (Feb 11, 2011)

Ooo - there's a nice trout to squeeze, right there, my friend! Who's squeezing that one? Z'at you?

Turns out, that is about the right shade of green judging from MB's paint job and that would be a "hell yah" on the red stripe.


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## tel (Mar 11, 2011)

Well, its been a while, but finally a little more to report. Those who have been following Pete's Kerzel build will know I started the regulator arm yesterday - and made a hash of it! Took some remedial action this morning, silver soldered a lump on to the cylinder end and re-shaped it. Doesn't bear much resemblance to the arm as drawn, but it's the shape it needs to be. Still needs a little refining.

Well, that's just about all of it I think, apart from the ignition, which is still hanging me up.


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## metalmad (Mar 11, 2011)

Hi Tel
that lock out looks like its strong enougth 
mine seems a little flimsy in retrospect
I notice on yours you have gone for a different angle on the lever to the cam follower.
I presume to make the disengage easy?
Im worried now my lever will like it too much in the engaged position to let the springs pull it out 
Pete


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## tel (Mar 11, 2011)

Yeah Pete, I've left a little wriggle room for reshaping, but the idea was to minimise friction there. Didn't matter what I did, the arm made to the drawing went nowhere near fitting properly, hence the change. I can whittle it down a bit more once I see what's what.


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## bearcar1 (Mar 11, 2011)

Tel, ol' buddy, I'm glad to see you back in the saddle again on this build after a short hiatus. That pesky lockout arm or "Kerzel lever" as Brian tagged it seems to be a real bearcat to get the angles cut suitably on. I'm watching both you and Pete in your efforts to get another set of these engines made and in doing so will be able to have witnessed all of the snafus that occurred along the road or at least get a pretty good idea of what/how to do something in order to avoid trouble. Well done. 

BC1
Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 11, 2011)

Kerzels drawing only bears a slight resemblance to what is actually needed there. I messed with that damn thing for a week and remade it twice, then cut the end of it before I could get it to work right.---Brian


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## tel (Mar 11, 2011)

You got that right Brian, although looking at the angle mine is sitting on I think I'll have to refine the shape a bit, which will mean making another one. Ah well, it's only metal!


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## Brian Rupnow (May 19, 2011)

Tel---What ever happened to your Kerzel build. I've been waiting months now for you two guys from down under to have running engines. Pete has a runner, although he didn't show much of it before embarking on another project, but I want to know what happened to yours. You were very, very close the last few times you posted.----Brian


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## Dave G (May 19, 2011)

Hi Tel, 
 I'm enjoying watching you build the Kerzel, seems like a popular engine to build. I haven't built one but I have built other hit-miss engines. One of the things I like to do is put a 5 degree angle on the lockout arm and a matching angle on the latch that it acts upon.
 I got this from working with firearms, The trigger and sear of a firearm have a 5 degree angle on them to keep them seated to each other under spring pressure. This helps keep the trigger in place when a firearm is dropped or jarred. I have built my engines with this in mind, The angle on the latch will keep the lockout arm seated into the latch with spring pressure from the exhaust valve spring. When the governor tries to unlatch the lockout arm from the latch it will only do so if the lockout arm moves completely away from the latch. If it only moves a little bit and not enough to unlatch the valve spring pressure will reseat the lockout arm completely. This seems to give a more positive unlatching when needed. My engines will normally only fire one time before the governor holds the exhaust valve open. This is something I have incorporated into my engine designs and it has always worked well for me. Dave


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## Troutsqueezer (May 20, 2011)

stickpoke


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## tel (May 20, 2011)

;D I have been quiet, haven't I! Truth is in recent weeks I haven't had much of a chance to think about it, let alone do anything. Heavy frosts, short days, a busy lambing season (100+ of the little buggers so far and probably as many to come) and the annual spend-every-spare-minute-getting-firewood ritual have pretty much conspired to keep me out of the workshop, and when I do get in there it's usually to do something for somebody else!

I will get there, and I am determined not to start another engine until that one runs. Pete has had success with his, and has posted several vids of it going, and is now powering on through his next build - kind of makes me feel old and doddery.

Yeah Dave, you will enjoy the build when you get to it - I most certainly did! Like you, I have put a little angle on the arm/latch - again a'la the angle on a sear, which tends to make the pieces ride into engagement rather than out of it. 

Watch this space - the fat lady ain't sung yet!


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## Artie (Oct 3, 2011)

Howdy Tel ole mate, wondering where you are up to with this? You should be nearly finished chopping firewood (although thats not so certain considering the area you live).

Work and other issues have conspired to make me take a break from destroying metal (and I've taken on another project which doesnt require much machine shop time) but i did run up some parts on the mill the other day....

I thinks its quite acceptable to haev several projects on the go at one time, allows the mind to 'exercise' some.....

Cheers mate.


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## tel (Oct 4, 2011)

Yo Artie - no progress at all I fear - it's been a long, hard winter and I've done nothing in the workshop at all for some time - hopefully things will start to warm up soon and I can get back to that and arf a dozen other outstanding projects!


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