# Werowance attempts Myfordboys traction engine



## werowance (Mar 4, 2021)

I just received my castings and instructions for Myfordboys traction engine.

not that i am experienced with machining castings but to my untrained eye they appear to be very good quality. 
the blueprints are the type i like with only 1 or 2 parts per page with multiple view points of each part that need multiple views.

downside to me is that the fasteners are all BA and not standard (standard to me anyway) and some of the metal types i do not understand.  for an example (which i do understand) is it calls for "silver steel"  to me in the USA that is "Drill Rod" but for another piece it calls for "BMS" which i am assuming some sort of just regular steel but i dont know...

at any rate,  firs questions are:

1. does there exist some sort of chart that would recomend substitutions for BA thread to standard theads?  something like 4ba = recomended substitution is 4-40 threads?
2. what is "BMS" metal?
3. any good sources for (edited out size ) copper tube for the boiler in the USA? i do understand tube not pipe (we dont want a seam running the length of it that could split open)

other than that it seems pretty straight forward at first glance of the prints.  im sure ill have plenty of questions once i get started but im just now at the reading and sourcing materials point right now


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## fcheslop (Mar 4, 2021)

BMS= Bright Mild Steel= EN3B
Ive attached a thread chart
Not sure what size domestic/industrial plumbing pipe available in the USA over here it would be a metric size at 54mm.
Good luck
cheers
frazer


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## werowance (Mar 4, 2021)

Thank you fcheslop.  Bright Mild Steel - would that be like 12L14 leaded steel? or what would that be called in the US?


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## fcheslop (Mar 4, 2021)

SAE1021


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## werowance (Mar 4, 2021)

oh, that seems to be generic cold rolled steel pretty much would that be correct?  the parts its going into don't seem to need to be anything special but would like to learn the lingo a bit better


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## fcheslop (Mar 4, 2021)

Would have thought soo its just a general mild steel no added lead
We have a Black mild steel and a Bright just to confuse matters
Did you buy his gears as they are very cheap?
Keep well


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## werowance (Mar 4, 2021)

no i have not.  i sort of enjoy making my own gears,  that said i have ruined several gears on other builds before i got a pair of suitable ones.   but in the end i may have to purchase his but thats a good ways off for me just yet.


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## fcheslop (Mar 4, 2021)

Some more info on the site in the link
Just use google if needed to translate
I like cutting my own gears but will admit to having the odd 64and a 1/2 toothed one
Steam45 - Presentation - engine


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## werowance (Mar 5, 2021)

post deleted because it gave to many of the sizes in the plans


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## fcheslop (Mar 5, 2021)

Add double wall to the ID
What is the designed safe working pressure? of the boiler?


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## werowance (Mar 5, 2021)

post deleted because it gave to much information on the size of the boiler in the plans


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## fcheslop (Mar 5, 2021)

Glad you have it sorted
The thicker tube maybe an advantage when fitting the smoke box rivets
2inch 20 swg is still available not that it matters
cheers


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## werowance (Mar 8, 2021)

still sourcing some of the materials.  on the bushes for the safety valve, steam pipe etc on the boiler it calls for "bronze" without secifying any alloy for that.  i understand that brass would "leech" and is not considered good for boilers.  so my question is what alloy or type of bronze am i looking for?  i see phosphor bronze,  aluminum bronze, silicon bronze,  bearing bronze etc.  and none of its cheap either.  so what alloy would you all recomend for those bushes?


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## fcheslop (Mar 8, 2021)

Phosphor Bronze. NOT SAE 660 or any containing lead


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## werowance (Mar 8, 2021)

well,  c510 bronze on some sites dont show it contains lead at all but then some say it might contain .05% lead as its limit of lead but its nominal composition is 0% lead
then i find (and i know its not phosphorus) 655 silicon bronze.  no lead and recomended for marine and high corosion environments.  

would either of these work ok?


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## fcheslop (Mar 8, 2021)

PB102 is the UK spec for the one I have used I think? I tend to just ask m-machine for some bronze to make boiler bushes
Some of the grades dont silver solder well. The leaded ones are poor although most may have a very small lead content. The Aluminium Bronze grades are difficult and some times impossible to silver solder or at least thats my experience 

PB102CW451KC51000DEF STAN 02-838NES 838ISO CuSn5
*Mechanical Properties (specification minima 18mm to 40mm dia)*


Tensile Strength                         460N/mm²0.2% Proof Stress                       380N/mm²Elongation                                 12%


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## werowance (Mar 8, 2021)

ok, PB102 is c510 in the USA.  PB102 also "can" contain up to .02% lead but nominal on it is also 0% same as c510.  thank you so much for that info.


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## fcheslop (Mar 8, 2021)

Good luck with the build
I keep looking at it as a simple build or the Wells traction engine. The Myfordboy one to my mind looks a little more realistic
Keep well


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## miss_emma_jade (Mar 9, 2021)

theres a lot more work in the myfordboy engine. its very nice tho


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## werowance (Mar 9, 2021)

it does seem like a lot of work.  his prints do not include instructions however he has a complete build guide on utube from start to finish and some things look like it might be a major challenge for me.  that said - cutting cams the first time was a major challenge as well but with enough help and hand holding from folks here i was able to do it and looking back its not that bad now that i have done it.


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## kjk (Mar 9, 2021)

Specified        US Alternative                 Metric

2 BA              10 - 32                           M5 x 0.8
4 BA               6 – 40,6-32                   M4 x 0.7
5 BA               5 - 40
6 BA               4 – 48,4-40                   M3 x 0.5
8 BA               2 – 56                           M2.5 x 0.45
7/32 x 40          12 – 28                       M5 x 0.8
1/4 x 32             1/4 – 28                     M6 x 1.0
3/8 x 32             3/8 – 24                     M10 x 1.5


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## werowance (Mar 17, 2021)

i was asking myfordboy about maybe getting a pdf set of the plans so i could just print each page as i needed them thus not destroying the originals with oil, dykem and other gunk in the shop as i dont have a coppier at home.  when he responded he also added that i should not post pictures of the plans here and my initial response was is all i posted was the cover sheet which doesnt give dimensions ( i was hasty and defensive on my response and i should not have been) but as i re-read my posts i did give a few dimensions as i was looking for stock.  i dont believe i gave enough away for anyone to build by but i have edited as much as i can to remove any dimensions from this thread.

i dont think asking for substitutes for ba threads count as i didnt give any real measurements so i left that.

at any rate sorry for doing that and understand why he would not want me to do that.

now on to the rest of it.

some of my material has arrived.  the tube i had to make some inserts for both ends so i could turn it on the lathe to cut to length (and to keep the ends square)  i first turned a piece of scrap cast aluminum from a casting learning experience.  the left over aluminum poured into a muffin tin.  i turned that ingot into a plug and center drilled it and super glued it into one end of the tube.  then on the chuck side i took a piece of roll bar tubing and turned it down until it would go into the tube and superglued that one in.   i dont own pipe centers for the tail stock and didnt want to deform the tube on the chuck side is why i did it this way.  used a parting tool on both sides and everything came out well.  used heat to get rid of the glue.












forming the boiler ends just as myfordboy's and many other boiler builders public videos show by taking a form and beating the copper sheet over it to make what looks like a pipe cap but that fits on the inside of the tube.  i dont have any pics but its slowly getting to shape.  lot of heat and then beat then repeat going on with that.


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## stanstocker (Mar 18, 2021)

Because with the dimensions given on his website nobody could ever figure out some of the rough sizes of material needed.  After all, nobody has ever created a model from a limited number of photographs and drawings in the history of model engineering...

I understand not wanting detailed plan pics posted, but sizes of rough stock needed is hardly secret information.  I was actually thinking about seeing how much it would cost to ship to the US, but now I'm not sure if I want anything to do with the guy.  If anything, your thread is promoting his offerings.  Was he a jerk or just not real supportive?


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## Rockingdodge (Mar 18, 2021)

Umm just to knock this on its head, Myfordboy is not a jerk, just protective of his income. I've dealt with him on many occasions and he is a pleasant guy who will help if he can.


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## stanstocker (Mar 18, 2021)

Okie Dokie then.  It just seemed a bit extreme to expect someone to take down posts asking for sources of material in North America and giving rough sizes.  That makes the thread less useful for those who might want to follow along.  His youtube videos of the build certainly show more details than anything seen on this thread so far.

I certainly wouldn't expect him to want the plans posted one sheet at a time along with the machining steps.  Not wanting PDF's out there makes sense, they have a tendency to become dispersed!


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## werowance (Mar 18, 2021)

he was certainly not a jerk,  I was the jerk. or at least I was short with my reply to him.  I was just writing to say why I removed my dimensions and edited the posts.  at any rate myfordboy was nice and said for me to ask any question to him I wanted no matter how "daft" it was.  

anyhow,  sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like he was a jerk or anything.  I just felt bad about what I had done and that my reply to him was a little short.  

thanks all.


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## kjk (Mar 18, 2021)

I've dealt with Myfordboy on many occasions. I've had many castings from him, all of which were of excellent quality and machined very well.  I've also asked numerous questions regarding his models and always received a prompt response. I can't imagine him refusing any reasonable request.

As for a pdf copy of plans - just photocopy whatever it is you are currently working on and when you have marked it up or soaked it in oil to the point it can't be used any longer - just make another one. 

Stanstocker: By the way, numerous models have been built from a limited number of photographs. It is done all the time.


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## werowance (Mar 18, 2021)

problem is i dont have a coppier at home,  (working from home most of the time right now due to covid)  but ill get by work and scan it in and make some coppies soon enough just for my own use.  in the mean time ill just have to be carefull with them.

hope the thread doesnt get turned sideways on copying others work.  i should have been more carefull and myfordboy was not in anyway wrong or mean to me.  nuff said i hope.

update on the build:
Last night i finished heating and beating one of the end caps.  still need to trim it up a bit in the lathe.  i thought the copper was going to fold in on itself but in the end it decided to stretch and form the way it should have.  probably because im using thicker copper than called for would be my guess.  but still turned out acceptable. ill try to get a photo of it once i clean it up a bit.


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## Bob Wild (Mar 18, 2021)

I built this traction engine. As others have said, Myfordboy is really helpful and answered all my queries and explained any details I was unsure of. 
Bob


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## donnie1932 (Mar 18, 2021)

My first post so hope I get it right.  I built this tractor a few years back and found it to be a great project.  Myfordboy was great to work with and his casting
have been very good.  One thing I had trouble finding was the ceramic material for the burner.  I  have some left over so if you need it you are welcome to it.
Pm me if interested and by the way enjoy following your builds.


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## Jasonb (Mar 19, 2021)

No copier, take photo with camera or phone and print it.


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## werowance (Mar 22, 2021)

Jason - got some coppies now,  but take a photo with phone and print it.  now that is a good idea.  wish i had thought of that sooner.  

Donnie,  thats awesome,  but only if you let me pay you for the ceramic material - ill pm you.

got the boiler end plates done.  still waiting on some misc stock before i assemble the boiler and then some taps and dies that i ordered - decided i would just buy a BA tap and die set.  its coming from India.

and last but not least.  i normally use harris "stay silv" silver solder.  the real stuff not plumbers type solder which they sell the plumbers type of solder as "stay Bright"  but is there any other brands that might have slightly lower melting points than the "Stay SILV" from harris?  and i guess i should say in the USA.  shipping from over seas seams to take a long time.


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## Sprocket (Mar 22, 2021)

Check the Harris website. I've been using Safety-Silv 56, which I think is their lowest melt point. The alloys with less silver actually melt at higher temps.
I don't know about other manufacturers, this was available locally and I've stuck with it.
Safety-Silv® 56 | The Harris Products Group 
Doug


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## Jasonb (Mar 23, 2021)

The Safety-Silv 56 is very close to the 55% solder that we use here as the main solder for boiler work so go with that. I would avoid the Phosphor containing Stay-Silv for boilers

I think the Harris Black flux is their version of our Tenacity flux which does not get exhausted so quickly making it good for the longer heating time a boiler or any large item may need


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## werowance (Mar 23, 2021)

have not seen the safety silve 56 but i will take a look.   black flux?  was kinda curious about the flux as the stay silv flux looks very similar to borax or similar suspended in water or other wetting agent.  and does tend to glass then burn up before the braze wire wants to wet and flow.  ill have to see if i can get some to try


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## werowance (Mar 23, 2021)

so im at a big old hold on the project due to not having material and tooling i need. its mostly on order (not all of it yet) guess im used to using scrap material and "close enough" on the alloys.   that said im not risking it on the boiler so i am ordering the proper  alloys and such for that.  afterwords i can fall back to "close enough" and use whatever alloy scrap and cuttoffs i have. my tap and die kit from india still shows "tracking inforation received"  but ive seen that before and dont get another update untill its actually in my mail box so hopefully i will have it soon.

i usually like to see a picture of something when i check updates on others builds so here is the most up to date one i have.  looking forward to sharing better progress soon.

on the pic below.  i have seen Brian R and some others speak about using citric acid for the "pickle" and as luck would have it, i decided to go by Rural King as i was doing other things such as copies and low and behold they had "Ms. Wages" citric acid for canning.  so i bought a bottle.  came in the same plastic bottle as you might get  season salt of pepper corns or something.  i mixed a little with some distilled water and dipped the ends in for about 7 or 10 mins per side as i did other things.  

now its certainly not at the ready to braze state but look at how quickly it worked on the copper.
vinigar / salt that i normally use would take about an hour and that assuming i heated it to almost boiling before starting.  the citric acid was about 50 to 60 deg F when i dipped it in.  whatever the un heated garage temp was.  at any rate it was done just to see if and how well it work.  looks very promising as a "pickle"


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 24, 2021)

werowance--You were asking about my fan. If you go thru my post on the vertical I.C.  that I am currently working on, there is lots of information on it about how I built the fan. I made the fan twice, The first time from some ratty old pitted 0.050" stock I had silver soldered to a separate hub. The process worked okay but it looked bad because of all the pitting. I made it a second time from some 1 3/4" diameter steel that I had, only I made the blades 1/16" thick and turned the hub as part of the blades. I printed out a paper pattern, glued it to the steel, and made the saw cuts from the o.d. in as far as the hub with my bandsaw. The blades were then twisted 30 degrees one at a time while holding the fan in my vice.----Brian


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## werowance (Mar 31, 2021)

just a small update.  not much but.  1. my taps and dies still do not show shipped from India,  2. my new silver braze harris safety silver 56 and "black flux" has arrived.  i have been using safety 46 from harris so am anxious to try the 56 which as recomended in above posts as well as by harris it should melt at a slightly lower temp. (fingers crossed and can wait to test).

but while i wait on those taps and dies i wanted to share some info that i have learned as well as maybe an open discussion on alloys and such and what they are called from around the world. and some of these may have an impact on my build so this is why im posting as well as to possibly help others who may search on the diffrences

so....

1. silver steel - in USA i have learned its called drill rod (learned that one a long time ago).  silver steal sounds so much cooler though.  but in USA drill rod comes in W1 and O1 meaning oil hardening and water hardening..  i go with oil because im told O1 can for the most part withstand water or oil where water (W1) is "ok" with water but it also likes oil better. in other words both O and W like oil best ? i use used motor oil in 5 gal bucket to quench my drll rod in.
please jump in on this and make changes or suggestions like wiki page.

2. "BMS" had never heard that one but bright mild steel. again sounds so much cooler than the USA equivelant.  which seems to be plain old cold rolled steel.  doesnt bright mild steel sound better than cold rolled ? but dont take this post as for sure.  just what im learning and like above feel free to recomend. i also understand there is a dark mild steel which again feel free to expand on but i understand that to be hot rolled steel - usuallly a little more slag on it but in my experience very little difference.  both are not my favorite alloys of steel to work with but again they cut and are common.

3. phosporus bronze. - now this one i can see as not neceserlily being a direct one but evidently it is common in the UK and other countries (and maybe in the USA and im a newb and didnt know) to all it nothing but "phsophorus bronze" but that means no lead and the same thing in the USA is called c510.   agrivating stuff to cut and work with .  hard but gummy and gets hot quick.  360 brass in comparrison is awesome.  but is slightly easier than mild steel to cut but not by much.  does not like to drill very welll.  in comparrison i have a ebay special (dirt cheap find)"log" of 3 inch by about 2 foot long log of "bronze" that looked like it had been a door stop for 75 years.  that is gummy but cuts and drills well.  suspect its leaded and is used for fly wheels so far only.

so folks if anyone is in the mood to do general discussion while i wait on those taps please chime in and add on to the "equivelents" whether its on the USA side or from your countries side.  this isnt which is better but where i look at many engines built from all over the world but the termanolgy for the alloys dont always "translate" that well so to help others and me (which i already have most of my material) chime in and maybe some others can benefit. or maybe ill learn another new cool term just like silver steel.


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## werowance (Apr 22, 2021)

believe it or not i am still waiting on my taps and dies.  next week ebay will let me file a claim if i have not received them.  in the mean time i have worked on a few things that i do not need them for yet.  i bored the front casting, machined the bungs for the site glass and preasure relief valve and started on the cylinider.  its been a slow start for me on this one.....


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## werowance (Apr 22, 2021)

one more


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## werowance (Apr 27, 2021)

This Finally arrived.


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## timo_gross (Apr 27, 2021)

Rockingdodge said:


> Umm just to knock this on its head, Myfordboy is not a jerk, just protective of his income. I've dealt with him on many occasions and he is a pleasant guy who will help if he can.


I ordered castings for the myfordboy steam engine some time ago. I think it has a similar cylinder and valve as the traction engine. I do not remember the exact cost, but I thought it was reasonable and making it worked out fine ( if compressed air counts  ). Pdf-files always multipy and spread fast.
I consider myself a happy customer, all good. I think it is a good beginner project because it is not overly complicated, comes with good drawings and video instructions.

 Thread dimensions I changed to metric.


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## werowance (Apr 27, 2021)

i to am a happy customer (refering to myfordboy) and wish i had worded things differently on those posts so as to not have stirred all that up.  

Those taps and Dies were from ebay / India (not myfordboy) and took for ever to come in.  i could have ordered from China and gotten them much quicker.  usually tools i get from India arrive very quickly.  but not in this case.  
hopefully i can start moving along more quickly now that i have those.


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## werowance (May 12, 2021)

slow progress.  

got the cylinder made and lapped to a nice shiny finish on the inside


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## awake (May 13, 2021)

fcheslop said:


> Some more info on the site in the link
> Just use google if needed to translate
> I like cutting my own gears but will admit to having the odd 64and a 1/2 toothed one
> Steam45 - Presentation - engine


I have not found a use for a 64.5 tooth gear, but a 63.5 tooth gear is perfect for translating between metric and imperial threads on the lathe!


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## awake (May 13, 2021)

werowance said:


> This Finally arrived.
> 
> View attachment 124922


How's the quality on these?


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## werowance (May 14, 2021)

so so just by looking at them.   i have not used them as of yet.  putting in the garden,  just replaced all windows in my home and just a ton of other things going on.


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## awake (May 14, 2021)

werowance said:


> so so just by looking at them.   i have not used them as of yet.  putting in the garden,  just replaced all windows in my home and just a ton of other things going on.


I hear that! My shop time has been limited both by job and by garden and home, and when I have gotten in the shop the time has been consumed by other projects, leaving my latest model engine stranded for many months now. Someday ...


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## werowance (Jun 1, 2021)

just a little bit more done.  finished the hornplate studs and made several BA nuts .  
ill trim the studs to be right once i actually mount the hornplates.  they are extra long and also if you notice i tapered the tip alot to make it easy to start the die on them so that end will be cut off later on

just about got everything done to start brazing up the boiler.


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## werowance (Jun 11, 2021)

question,  i used super glue to hold one of the end caps in the tube so i could drill all the holes and tap the hornplate stud holes.  i then used a torch to heat and burn off the glue.  after that i used a wire brush, steel wool fine sand paper etc to clean things back up.  i also ran the tap back through the horn plate stud holes.  the small parts and end cap i put in a jar with acetone in it to soak over night.  had some dykem to remove and such.  also thought it might help get rid of any super glue residue.

but that question is - is there anything i should soak all the parts in to be sure i am rid of that super glue residue?  i heated it to a dull red to burn it off.  will the acetone bath take care of any burned super glue residue?  im more worried about the stud holes/threads having residue in them - cant really get steel wool in them and i dont think the tap would clean the treads completely.  

once i feel everything is clean then ill pickle in a citric acid bath until it looks ready to braze.


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## werowance (Jun 21, 2021)

got the boiler all brazed up.
Jasonb you were right the safetysilv 56 with black flux was easier to use.
on the first about half of the boiler i used a large propane torch.  but i had a large mapp gas torch that was given to me along with a large bottle of gas about 1/4 full so i used that and a huge difference with mapp gas.  ive used oxy accetalene with a jewelers torch before and have to be carefull not to melt parts,  propane is just a tadd bit to cold and hard to get it flowing but mapp gas was just right.  would recomend that for silver brazing.

Whiteout correction fluid works great at keeping the solder out of the threaded areas and where you dont want it to go.

i need to build a preasure tester like myfordboy did using a spray bottle but not sure of 2 things.

1.  will this air tank presure gauge pictured below work? 
2. how the heck did he get the copper line in the spray tip of the bottle and it ever hold?  i may email myfordboy directly and ask that one but if anyone has suggestions im open.


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## fcheslop (Jun 21, 2021)

He probably uses a Goodall valve. The 16mm loco guys use them a lot





						My version of a Goodall boiler top up valve.
					

Hi,                                                       I hope the photographs show how the valve was constructed if there are any questions please ask.  I followed the drawings and used a 1/4"x 40tpi when I should have used 1/4" BSF!     Regards Tony.




					www.homemodelenginemachinist.com


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## Jasonb (Jun 21, 2021)

I'd be a bit worried about the solder joint around that end bush and the flat plate, does not look like the solder has flowed anywhere near as well as it did on the end plates you soldered previously. Should be an even small fillet all round with no gaps or thick bits of solder that have not flowed completely. looks like tube got upto temp but bosses and plate were a bit cold.

Valve will be OK for a rough idea of pressure.


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## werowance (Jun 21, 2021)

it did flow into the bushes,  and into the inside,  jsut didnt fill the gap where the sides of the bushes are flat and the tube is round.  looking from the inside though which you cant see, it flowed pretty good.

on the engine mount,  it flowed into and around the 2 screws holding it on,  also on the inside 2 rings of solder were put on the protruding screws like washers and brazed first which coated the entire screw and flowed outward onto the pipe from the inside,  on the outside i just flowed some to make sure the 2 screws got coated as well the rest ran down the side of the pipe.

what i tried to do is braze bushes, studs and screws holding the engine pad from inside first using rings of solder.  once all that was done i cleaned everything again and did the end caps and tried to flow a little more from the outside.

and the end caps were brazed from outside only


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## bobden72 (Jun 22, 2021)

werowance said:


> got the boiler all brazed up.
> Jasonb you were right the safetysilv 56 with black flux was easier to use.
> on the first about half of the boiler i used a large propane torch.  but i had a large mapp gas torch that was given to me along with a large bottle of gas about 1/4 full so i used that and a huge difference with mapp gas.  ive used oxy accetalene with a jewelers torch before and have to be carefull not to melt parts,  propane is just a tadd bit to cold and hard to get it flowing but mapp gas was just right.  would recomend that for silver brazing.
> 
> ...


Looks like a fine bit of silver soldering, well done.


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## Jasonb (Jun 22, 2021)

Fare enough if it's just cosmetic on the outside but that was all I could see in the photos.

Has the design been altered from what Myfordboy shows on his videos as your first image seems to show a central stay and there is no sign of the flue tube? Your questing about the test gauge would seem to also suggest that you did not need to test the flue before building it into the boiler so has something changed?


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## werowance (Jun 22, 2021)

he has altered the plans from his original build videos eliminating the flue and replacing it with the stay.

here is the video with information on that on his youtube site.

Simple Steam The Myfordboy Traction Engine Part 20 Improved Burner - YouTube 

also i did some more cleanup on the boiler and checked closer on those joints,  everything looks good.  it just didnt fill in the gap reall good.  but where it actually touches to the pipe it flowed good.  guess what im trying to compare to is that it didnt fill the gap like you would with caulk say when replacing a window seal or putting in new counter tops.   so there is that visible gap but it did seal.  really hard for me to put in words.   

any rate got started on the preasure test rig.  myfordboy used a very similar rig that fsheslop showed in his post above.  so im working on that now.


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## CFLBob (Jun 22, 2021)

werowance said:


> i need to build a preasure tester like myfordboy did using a spray bottle but not sure of 2 things.
> 
> 1. will this air tank presure gauge pictured below work?
> 2. how the heck did he get the copper line in the spray tip of the bottle and it ever hold? i may email myfordboy directly and ask that one but if anyone has suggestions im open.



I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but a way to pressure test is with a slide in fitting on a pump with a pressure gauge on it.  I don't know what they're called but they're sold with bike tire pumps.  Bike tire pumps, the manual kind, go up to over 150 PSI.  The only tricky part is there are a couple of valve types that are different sizes and pumps, too.  Found this picture at Walmart.  I don't own one, no connections to their sales, yada yada.  



I have a Ryobi tire pump for the cars, bikes and whatever else and it came with one of those.  It goes up to 150 psi, too. 

Of course, as a guy with a machine shop, you could make something like that out of brass or a handy piece of scrap and use the pump to check how well it holds pressure.


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## werowance (Jun 23, 2021)

Bob thanks for showing that but in this case i want to use the squirt bottle with water to preasure the boiler.  for one reason is that some folks also use this same bottle as a boiler feed pump so you dont have to cool down and de preasure the boiler to fill it up.  with this pump you can fill it while under preasure so it doesnt take as long to come back up to temp.

Myfordboy has some videos of doing this as well.  he also used the same rig to test the boiler for leaks.

Myfordboy shared this photo of his setup and gave me permission to post the phot.

first photo is his setup  note there is a schrader tire valve inline between the green cap and the gauge

second photo is my start showing the parts as they were / cutout and some machining.

what i used was a long bolt in brass tire valve like a tractor / trailer big rig would use,  i cut the bolt in part off and threaded that end.  the end where the valve stem cap would go i put it in the lathe and cut it down to get rid of the cap threads.  i then made a sleeve with a lip on it so the spray bottle cap would hold it in the nozzle.  

next i have to make a T block for the gauge and this valve to screw in,  then on the output i will solder some copper tube to it.


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## CFLBob (Jun 23, 2021)

What you're doing is way more impressive.  I'm amazed you can get enough pressure out of one those plastic sprayers.


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## werowance (Jun 23, 2021)

actually i am as well.  but seeing others do it,  it must work.  i guess its just a brief burst of preassure and then the schrader valve keeps the back preasure off the bottle.  i really dont know but im going to give it a shot.


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## fcheslop (Jun 23, 2021)

With a decent spray bottle eg Hozelock   or similar you can get some decent pressures .My set up will go to nigh on 160+ psi
Try and find thinner walled silicone tubing as it goes through the boiler bushing easier or at least on my 1/4x40 ones
The fishing guys use some nice silicone tubing thats ideal for what Ive no idea


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2021)

well i had a terrible time getting the end cap to seal.  the bushes sealed just fine but the 1 end cap started with an ever so slight leak around the stay rod.  i mean just maybe a bead of sweat like on a cold soda would be like after 30 mins.  wasnt even enough to run down and drip but i decided to "fix" it.  and thats where everythig went down hill.  after reflowing that i had a million leaks around the edges of that end cap.  i would pickle and braze again. over and over.  i finally ran some of the smallest dia silver wire i had around the inside through one of the busing holes and used a dental pic to form it around the lip of the cap from the inside,  thinned down some flux with alchohol and swished that around. finally i got a good seal.

i now have a ton of silver braze all over the sides of the boiler to grind, file, sand etc to get rid of.  im considering trashing this one and starting over.  im not sure.

but it pass's the preasure test for over an hour.  i may have lost a pound of presure and the only leak i could find was actually where the gauge screwed into the tblock for the preasure testing setup.  boiler was nice and dry.

i have someone wanting me to "spin" some brass sheet to replicate a part on some piece of antique equipment.  i have no experience at it but im going to make the tool post for it and give it a shot with some aluminum sheet for learning.  point is ill have to set this project on the side as i stand to make a decent check if i can spin the sheet metal.


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## CFLBob (Jul 9, 2021)

Persistence in action.  Nothing can beat the combination of persistence and determination.


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## werowance (Sep 2, 2021)

getting back to the traction engine this week.  made 2 end caps that i still need to drill for the screws, 1 piston (thats dykem on it that you see on it), and then cut a block brass off the parent stock to make the valve chest out of or valve assembly or valve whatchamacallit thingy.  i switched my combo lathe over for milling last night and started squaring up the valve block, then will slot and cross drill the piston rod and last i will use my rotary table to drill and tap the cylinder covers.   that valve block i really believe is going to take me a while.  myfordboy makes it look soooo easy on his videos.  wish i had that kind of tallent.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 2, 2021)

Werowance--I was thinking of you this morning, wondering where you had gone. Glad to see that you are still involved and making progress.---Brian


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## werowance (Jan 7, 2022)

i am still working on this one.  i made the valve block and finished up some more of the engine parts.  been making screws and studs the past few days.  then i have ran into a problem.  the vale block was made from as advertised "scrap brass bar" i got cheap on ebay.   its really bronze.  no problem bronze should be just fine in my opinion.   but it cuts like crap and the reall issue i have been having is that i cant get it to easily flow regular soft solder.   

yesterday i soldered the valve block to the cylinder (like myfordboy shows in his youtube  videos) and had very bad results.  so tonight i de-soldered it and while the solder still hot i used an air hose to blow the solder off then i used some solder wick braid and cleaned it up more.  then back in the pickle for a little while (not long enough but will put back in when i have time to leave it long enough)   thing is that this bronze just doesnt want to flow solder no matter how clean it is.

is there a trick to soldering bronze?  i have soldered other unknown alloys of bronze easily before.  maybe  im just being un patient or something this go round.

at anyrate ill get some pics of the recessed screws i made.  right happy with those as i have never made recessed screws before.


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## Caster (Jan 7, 2022)

I think you may have a bit of aluminium bronze there which unfortunaly cannot be soldered.


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## werowance (Jan 7, 2022)

well shoot.  is there any way to eyeball tell if its aluminnum bronze?  i was able to silver braze 2 pieces of it together if that makes any difference.  that was 2 messed up spacers that i cut to thin so i silver brazed the together and then cut back down to make one of the spacers out of.  but soft plumbers solder just rolls off of it much like it was a piece of aluminum so you very well may be right.


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## Caster (Jan 7, 2022)

If you were able to silver solder the bar OK then maybe it is not al bronze.
Could it be you are getting the metal too hot so the flux becomes spent. My favoite flux is Bakers fluid.
You could try on another part with the flux you have. Cut off a small bit of solder and place on the joint and gently heat until it melts.


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## werowance (Jan 7, 2022)

i may be getting it to hot, ive tried normal plumbers soldering paste with plumbers solder as well as trying harris stay brite with the harris solder (which i used on my upshur engine cylinder to bronze base plate with good results) 

the parts are in the pickle right now (viniagar and kosher salt as i am out of citric acid) once it looks good and rosey red color im going to try regular electronics solder as a test to tin it.


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## dnalot (Jan 7, 2022)

I do some casting and I get bronze propellers, and other marine fittings from a boat repair yard. Most are aluminum bronze. You can tell if its aluminum bronze  because it is slightly magnetic. Very slightly, clean and polish the area to be tested. 

Mark T


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## Steamchick (Jan 8, 2022)

Werowance, I have recently changed from zinc-based soldering of aluminium to some 95% aluminium rods (Cheap from China!). They solder aluminium really well - flux free - so if they do that with aluminium, they may just work on aluminium bronze?
Back in the 1970s, I worked on Aluminium busbars... MIG welded aluminium mostly. But in some instances, we needed to convert from Al to Copper, or steel. Most of the "conversion plates" that we welded to the aluminium assemblies were made by explosion bonding an aluminium plate to a chemically cleaned copper or steel block. (I think some may have been "friction welded"?). But a (cost saving) development proved that the application of MIG-welder-applied aluminium onto a copper surface could give the required mechanical and electrical and durability properties, as the MIG arc "abraded and eroded" the "foreign" material surface so the aluminium spray (from the arc) could adhere to the "foreign" surface. NOT a weld, but an effective friction bonded joint for electrical purposes. Possibly wire brushing (stainless steel wire brush required) the molten aluminium soldering rod onto the surface of the Aluiminium bronze will "tin" the surface, then 2 "tinned" surfaces can be brought together and the aluminium solder melted and allowed to fuse and cool to form the require joint? I may have a bit of Al-Brz. to try... as soon as I get some "experimental time"!
K2


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## werowance (Jan 12, 2022)

finally got it..  i silver brazed it and that worked good.  here are some pics.  the studs are not cut to length and i need to make some nuts and washer for them.  also a pic of one of the screws i made for it.  that screw i didnt use cause the underside of the head is a bit rough and i made extras so i just used the best ones of the batch.


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