# Newbie and the Cylinder



## Foozer (Jun 30, 2009)

Trying another motor sub assembly, never made one of these so only one way to find out. Can I do it with only the Boat Anchor lathe I have

Idea on paper, be a steam chest of sorts also after I tackle this part







Looks easy enough 0.375 bore for a 0.750 stroke
Have had trouble working from the outside in, bore hole ends up off center, so this time drilled/reamed the hole first, turned down a piece of stock with a slight taper to it and wedged the soon to be cylinder upon it. Turned the outer profile and, well it works.






For the tail section of the assembly needed a slot cut so used one of those cross slide little home made V-Block thingies to hold part and used a Dremel router bit in the lathe chuck, cranked the lathe up about 4000 rpm and achieved the slot cutting. (clamp removed for photo)






Use the soft jaws, really like that tool, gave it a little bore on the jaws to hold the tail section and reamed the innards to clean up and size the innards.

The slot is 0.250 so the inner bearing surface for the piston rod will be 0.312. Should be able to see the workings while maintaining enough meat for the sliding bearing.

Have to cut the cylinder head, some bearings and connecting rod clevis fitting. Biggest challenge which could trash the whole thing is drilling the holes to that will be for the stud & nuts aimed to hold it all together.

Its all just practice, finding out what I can and cant do with what I have

Robert


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## hitandmissman (Jun 30, 2009)

Looks like that turned out real nice. Plus gave me another idea to try out. Thanks.


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## Foozer (Jun 30, 2009)

hitandmissman  said:
			
		

> Looks like that turned out real nice. Plus gave me another idea to try out. Thanks.



Hope its successful for you


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## Foozer (Jun 30, 2009)

Few cups of coffee, feed the chickens and back to turning some parts.

So I've got the basic cylinder and tailpiece done






Time for the Cylinder head. Just a little piece of brass where the soft jaw chuck really helps out. Using the same bore jaws to fit part as the other two pieces it allows the soon to be cylinder head worked up close. Got it turned down and profiled.






Using the rocker post sans the rocker holds the bit securely giving better results over the QCTP for in close work. Turned out a partial piston/rod and now its time for the tiny sleeve bearings and rod clevis portion.






Off course I dropped and dinged the tailshaft, piston rod looks bent in photo, must be the light. Made two of the piston/rod pieces. That AL gets a little springy at the smaller dia 0.187. too big (0.010) a cut and, another one for the "Shelf of Shame"

Next up, bearings and clevis. Saving the drilling of hole for last. Scrap or not scrap, that is the question this newbie has yet to encounter


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## arnoldb (Jun 30, 2009)

That's looking good Robert Thm:

Looks like you discovered a new optical illusion, unless that's been brought on by the "hot sauce" 

Regards, Arnold


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## Foozer (Jul 1, 2009)

The smaller the part the longer it takes, I'm gonna need more "Hot sauce"

Task was to make the piston rod bearing for the tailstock. Got a piece of bearing bronze and thoroughly trashed the first attempt. 'Nuff to say that attempt now resides somewhere in the neighbors yard. The piece is supposed to be 0.375" long by 0.313" dia with a 0.187" hole in it. Also to have a flange 0.016" thick by 0.425" dia. Lesson, Dont finish the flange first and expect to have enough material for the chuck to hold while facing the other end.

So after the second attempt, a little bushing in the freezer and tailstock heated to 350 degrees it just popped in slicker than Goose Doo.
The mating side of the cylinder was also relieved an amount equal to the bushing so that when assembled the bushing will be captured. Sure its more than needed but as long as I am figuring out how to cut stuff, what the heck.

So not a big deal here Just a little piece of the puzzle. Got to do some math to figure exactly how long the connecting rod is to be, another day another task






Robert


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 1, 2009)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> 'Nuff to say that attempt now resides somewhere in the neighbors yard.



Is that where you keep your 'Wall of Learnings'? Or do you have more than 1?

How does the cylinder attach to the tailstock? Or does it? That is, does something press the two together?

Thanks.


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## Foozer (Jul 1, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Is that where you keep your 'Wall of Learnings'? Or do you have more than 1?
> 
> How does the cylinder attach to the tailstock? Or does it? That is, does something press the two together?
> 
> Thanks.



Neighbor, well its a ten acre piece that the county just bought. Dont know what they be building, but anything I can do to help them out  Got some larger pieces I'd like to throw at em to acknowledge all the dust they been raising lately

"Wall of Learning?" Got to go up the "Stairs of Stumbles" to view that one.

Idea was to use thru studs outside the cylinder with nuts. May have taken a big bite of the apple, drilling those holes, that's where a mill table would sure make it easier. Just have to see what develops in the "Darkroom of ideas"


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 1, 2009)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> Got to go up the "Stairs of Stumbles"



 Rof}



			
				Foozer  said:
			
		

> see what develops in the "Darkroom of ideas"



 Rof} Rof}

Thanks. I'll have to remember these next time I'm in the 'Basement of Despair'.


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## Foozer (Jul 1, 2009)

From the Barn of Boo Boo's another one goes upon the Shelf of Shame

Someone forgot to check the tailstock alignment, same someone only measured the connecting rod diameter at one point. Tapered connecting rod just aint gonna work to sliding thru the bushing.

After getting the tailstock lined on center, real PIA when tightening the hold down moves it farther than the correction amount, at least got the shaft to 0.188 overall give or take 0.0005. Best this ol AA109 is gonna do. Also decided to fancy it up and made a piston out of bearing bronze. Threaded the end 10/24, dab of Loctite and put a tapped round of bronze on it.Turned the whole assembly at one time, once in the lathe, I'm not moving it till its done.

I see why the hard solder route is favored, turning small dia is, well that torch is looking a lot more practical every day.

Still have a bit of sizing to do on the piston, taking a break for the brides sake before hitting the sandpaper to final stage.


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## Foozer (Jul 2, 2009)

Piston finished, turned all the piston material extra down to a final length of 0.200. Probably a tad on the long side for a double action cylinder but wanted to ensure a thread or two was still left on the shaft to hold the piston to the rod. Leaves me 0.050 clearance at each end of travel.






And the obligatory "Pop" test
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3-EzIDM515o&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3-EzIDM515o&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Couple more pieces to do, like a steam chest of some sort, and this cylinder assembly is done.

I should quit fooling around and actually make something


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 2, 2009)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> I should quit fooling around and actually make something



Oo. Oo. An opportunity. Nah. I'll be nice.

Very nice Robert. Thanks for posting the 'pop' video. Helps to see/hear it rather than be told what it should do. (Mine didn't even wheeze.)

Do I have this right?...Connecting rod is threaded on one end and a bronze piston is threaded onto it? If so...can the piston unthread itself?


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## Foozer (Jul 2, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Oo. Oo. An opportunity. Nah. I'll be nice.



Shy are we?



> Very nice Robert. Thanks for posting the 'pop' video. Helps to see/hear it rather than be told what it should do. (Mine didn't even wheeze.)



Had you in mind so as long as I had a good popper in hand, might as well hear what the "Pop" sound is.


> Do I have this right?...Connecting rod is threaded on one end and a bronze piston is threaded onto it? If so...can the piston unthread itself?



Your right it is threaded. Took a center punch and made a couple prick marks on the rods thread to give em a slight deformation (buggered em up a bit) A drop of Loctite and it should be more than able to withstand any tenancy to un-thread it self. Dozen different ways to achieve the end, most require smaller pieces that start to get all to fuzzy and fiddly for me to deal with


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## Foozer (Jul 3, 2009)

So thanks to ZEE and the thread on indicators, thought I'd give it a try on setting up to drill a hole. Normally for this I'd just skim the face of the soft jaw and bring the cross slide attachment up to it flush to square it off. Took the longer route, set a piece of 1 inch tool stock 6 inch long in the jig and used the indicator to set the jig square. Locked the slide down, removed any extraneous bit and called it good. Actually overkill here, the play in this lathe makes for no real difference in final result.






Mounted the piece to be drilled, the sliding bushing for the piston rod that sets into the tail shaft and drilled two holes. One undersized for the 0.125 connecting rod pin and another about 0.063 which will help secure the bearing to the shaft once the final position is established.

Even used a bit of soda can as chaffing material . . .






So far this exercise looks like this. Actually moves free enough throughout its travel. Small bit of binding but a final work with some 600 paper ought to clear that up.






Still stalling on drilling the head bolt holes


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 3, 2009)

Looking good.
How does air/steam get in/out?


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## Foozer (Jul 3, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Looking good.
> How does air/steam get in/out?



Haven't a clue, yet. Just know it will require some itty bitty holes being drilled. A steam chest to hold the valving of some sort made. You know, balance big ideas against lack of ability. 

Next phase is to drill the head bolt holes, hoping I left enough room for 2-56, dont want to go smaller.

Robert


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## Foozer (Jul 4, 2009)

Finally drilled them itty bitty holes that will accept studs with 2-56 nuts at each end. Loose fit 0.096 and I sure hope that's right. Just made it on the tailstock end. I sorta over cut the recess so the bolt holes break out into it a bit. But they are evenly spaced so i could say "Designed it that way! Yup"

Well now to find some stock to make the studs out of, and a 100 mile (160km) trip to get a 2-56 die, or two, or three.


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## bentprop (Jul 4, 2009)

Nice work so far,Foozer.
Just a thought,you can get 2-56 threaded stud in any shop that sells RC airplane stuff.It's used for attaching clevises to pushrods.Might save you a long trip?
Regards.Hans.


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## Seanol (Jul 4, 2009)

Foozer,
I hear you on the tailstock alignment.

Looking good though. What type of engine is it?

Sean


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## Foozer (Jul 4, 2009)

bentprop  said:
			
		

> Nice work so far,Foozer.
> Just a thought,you can get 2-56 threaded stud in any shop that sells RC airplane stuff.It's used for attaching clevises to pushrods.Might save you a long trip?
> Regards.Hans.



Thanks for that tip, I'll find a shop around somewhere. I'm out in the boondocks north of Seattle. The drive's not so bad if I time it to miss the rush hour jams.



> Foozer,
> I hear you on the tailstock alignment.
> 
> Looking good though. What type of engine is it?
> ...



Thanks, 
Haven't a clue actually. I've never done this sort of stuff, kinda learning as I go along. Just sort of an exercise to find out what I can and cant do with no talent and the tools I have. A drill press and an old small lathe. 

I'd get laugh'd out of Dodge if I posted how I drilled the itty bitty holes

Keeps me hopping


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 4, 2009)

Looks good.
Is there room for the nuts on the tailstock?

'wazzit' engine?
'clueless' engine?
'dunno' engine?
'wannabe' engine?
'itsan' engine?

I like the last one. But start with 'gonbe' engine.


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## Foozer (Jul 4, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Looks good.
> Is there room for the nuts on the tailstock?



Gets cold on the east coast does it? 



> 'wazzit' engine?
> 'clueless' engine?
> 'dunno' engine?
> 'wannabe' engine?
> ...



delusional engine . . .

But, returning like a squirrel checking to see if there is room. That's where a piloted counter bore would be called for. Cut reliefs into the tailstock, be a nice feature, I'm not gonna try it, nothing firm enough to hold (don't say it) those tolerances.

Robert


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## bearcar1 (Jul 4, 2009)

"Gets cold on the East Coast does it?......"  Rof} Rof}

BC1
Jim


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## Foozer (Jul 10, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Looking good.
> How does air/steam get in/out?



Think I figured it out, going for as simple as possible. Sliding piston, cutaway view. Air enters from top and travels along cavity running thru the chest. Each end of chest has hole running to cylinder. Piston has a close fit journal at each end that covers/uncovers the ports. Piston moves forward and allows air to enter forward port (front side of cylinder) while letting air out of the backside of cylinder. Air will just exit thru the gap between the piston shaft and chest end holes. Not very elegant but should be functional. Trick is going to making it work. Small pieces BLAH! Chest is/will be about 1 inch long and 1/2 inch wide.

Drawing it up as I go along. Kinda how can I make it work with the stone axe and flint knive I currently have available.


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 10, 2009)

The chest is no bigger than the clamps we're making?

Where is cylinder in relation to chest? (It may be obvious but I'm still learning how these things work.)


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## Foozer (Jul 10, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> The chest is no bigger than the clamps we're making?



Yup, just 'bout the same size. 

Where is cylinder in relation to chest? (It may be obvious but I'm still learning how these things work.)
[/quote]

On top of cylinder

First crack at it show's plan is flawed, not design but procedure for making. Started with a block and drilled the hole for the piston. BUZZ, making the long 0.300 radius cut so it can match the outside of the cylinder is problematic.
Going to try and drill/bore the radius first, slit the block in half, then size it to fit

Also and I have read this somewhere, drilling deep holes tends to cause the bit to skew. It did, it does, about 10 thousands on the exit side. So will attack it from each end, hopefully meeting in the middle.

Will do some today, will post a pic of what i get. also have to work on car, change the tranny I blew up  Easy 4-5 hour job that I stretch into days and weeks.

Thinking round over for the chest too, there is that word again 

Robert


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## Foozer (Jul 11, 2009)

Started anew on the steam chest. Hunk of hex stock, used a milling attachment on the lathe to face of both ends with a fly cutter, located and drilled the piston valve hole (undersize for now) located and drilled a hole 0.500 inch that will end up being the mating surface to the cylinder 0.600 inch. All that perty straightforward, HMM a few months ago I'd never of said that.

Then the fun began, hunk of stock with an off center hole that needs to be bored out. Got a 4 jaw but, well it and I dont always see eye to eye, so went the 3 jaw and shim route. Lots of shims later and the hole is bored to size. So with some diddling you can offset bore with a 3 jaw. I stay well to the right of the chuck tho, just in case, but there are two points of contact per jaw so they stay put. 

Pushed the cylinder in to test the fit, slide in easy enough but now its stuck, guess its a good fit  Lots of material to yet remove, so far its a looking like a keeper


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## Seanol (Jul 11, 2009)

Foozer,
You can make the radius with a boring head. Put your block in the vise towards one side and line up the spindle on that side and center the y axis on your block. Put in a boring head and adjust for the radius you want.

Hope that makes sense?

Sean


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## Foozer (Jul 11, 2009)

Seanol  said:
			
		

> Foozer,
> You can make the radius with a boring head. Put your block in the vise towards one side and line up the spindle on that side and center the y axis on your block. Put in a boring head and adjust for the radius you want.
> 
> Hope that makes sense?
> ...



Makes perfect sense, no boring head tho  Really should get some more tooling, it would make some task go quicker. I'm retired and sort of like the challenge of using whats at hand, dinking around with the DTI, pencil and paper for 30 minutes to achieve the end result this time wasn't so bad. 

A boring head is a good investment tho, not to make me a better mechanic but to make the process easier. No amount of tooling is of itself going to improve any talent I may or may not have, need to better grasp the process flow then acquire the tools to ease that flow.

If that makes sense? Like this piece of the puzzle, I drew it out, first crack at it picked the wrong point of reference, this time I'm using the larger radius that encompasses the cylinder and will work out from there. Figure if all the dimensions are based on a known good point, then they too should be good.

You asked 

Tip well taken, thanks

Robert


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## bearcar1 (Jul 11, 2009)

Fooz', you never cease to amaze me. I'm am always interested to see what it is that you have 'brewing' when it comes to making do with the tools at hand. Remarkable really, and you make it interesting to watch as well. This is going to be one very sharp project when completed, I can't wait to see it.  ;D

BC1
Jim


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## Foozer (Jul 11, 2009)

bearcar1  said:
			
		

> be one very sharp project when completed, I can't wait to see it. ;D
> 
> BC1
> Jim



Sharp is right, cut my finger sliding the cylinder out from the chest piece 

I'm sorta wondering what it will end up as myself

Thanks for the kind words

Robert


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## Foozer (Jul 12, 2009)

Well the hard part done, those long (1 inch) through holes in the chest. Drill a little, back it out, clear the chips, drill a little, back it out, clear the chips, drill a little . . .

Managed not to break a bit. Sort of a trial fit up. Stills seems a bit heavy on the eye, Have to find what can be removed to ease the visual.


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## Foozer (Jul 15, 2009)

And here I thought drilling small long holes was a challenge, color me silly.

Made the piston valve for this steam chest, 0.188 dia, so the smaller the dia of the part, the smaller the cutting tools, having sharp cutting tools, adherence to having the tool on center, taking light cuts and in general more patience than a cat at the gopher hole is required.

But got er done and so of course while taking those repetitive cuts I began to wonder just how much of a reduction in shaft diameter is required to allow for smooth air flow. the entry/exit ports are 0.074 dia so I just reduced the shaft dia by half the port dia (ok 0.040) thinking that enough clearance should then exist to not be a restriction while maintaining as much shaft material as possible.

Too much thinking? back to OOH Shinny Things

So to date its starting to come together, left the stub on the end till I figure a means to operate it


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 15, 2009)

Looking good Robert.
I know very little about steam and haven't been able to get it in my head how it works. I'm very interested in the next step.


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