# NORMAN (Goldstar 31) new sieg C4 lathe tips



## bazmak (Jul 25, 2017)

I have opened this thread on behalf of Norm.for anybody to give advise or answer questions specifically on the Sieg Sc4. This can be confirmed by Norm
Please supply basic spec for it Norm aon i will try to dig up some past photos and repost


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## goldstar31 (Jul 25, 2017)

Initially, Thanks Barry

The spec plate is as follows
SIEGC4
Year 2007
Motor 230V 50Hz 1.8HO
Output 1.3HP
Spindle speed 100-2000rpm
Swing over bed 210mm
Centre distance 450mm
Spindle taper 3MT
Tail Stock 2MT

Spindle clearance 20mm
Max tool size 10 x 10mm
Crosslide travel 100mm
Dia of chuck 100mm
Tail stock ram 40mm
Feedrate 0.045/0.125mm
Metric threads 0.25 - 3mm
Imperial threads 8 - 56 TPI
size 1000 x 550 x 400mm
Weight 94KG

Apart from being white and( hush) a bit cleaner all that is different is the Sieg DRO's.
I now have the faceplate and the 100mm 3 jaw
on order is the single replacement DRO and a 1000mm 4 jaw independent  and a fixed steady

I've just stripped the QCTP, saddle and whatever. Summing up- no perceptual wear but once cleaned I have to test the ability to face

And so on. Oh, off set centres, boring heads, rotary tables, dividing heads down to -well, GHT standard.

Probably, ignoring two Myford, a Unimat clone, a watchmakers lathe and  a crate of tool and cutter grinders, a 6 x4 saw and a mill drill, probably that is more or less it. Digressing, Migs and Arcs and silver soldering tackle 

So really, just what most guys have acquired . 

Does this help, please?

The rest of the swag is ER25 collets, 3 vertical slides( Myford), centres, running centres, drill chucks(galore),  die holders,  holders, slotting attachment, vee thing and assorted vices of all sizes, 3 Potts milling spindles, test bars, dial gauges, magnetic stands, clock gauges down to 2 tenths imperial blocks,


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## bazmak (Jul 26, 2017)

My suggestion for chuck fixings Norm


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## goldstar31 (Jul 26, 2017)

G'Morning Barry

Point taken and I have a 20mm gap between the lathe headstock body and the spindle flange.
Too early in the day for post/deliveries etc but had a good natter with a friend who, like you, is interested in my so called progress. 

He's got two Super7b's full and also a Harrison as he is building a traction engine. 

In this troubled World, it is nice to find nice people

Thank You

Norm


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## goldstar31 (Jul 29, 2017)

Lost my original post--SORRY

N


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## goldstar31 (Jul 29, 2017)

Start Again!!!

Since Barry's helpful notes, I have been able to replace the defunct DRO on the saddle with a spare. £50 and a right so and so to adjust but it is done.

Again, on a shopping spree, I have a faceplate, a 4 jaw independent chuck and an adaptor to take my existing ER25 collets.

A further rummage has traced the adapter to utilise my No2MT stuff in the No3 MT spindle.

So all is well apart from thanking Barry!


Norm


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 10, 2018)

I know its an old thread but what DRO did you replace?  Digital ReadOut?


goldstar31 said:


> Start Again!!!
> 
> Since Barry's helpful notes, I have been able to replace the defunct DRO on the saddle with a spare. £50 and a right so and so to adjust but it is done.
> 
> ...


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## goldstar31 (Feb 10, 2018)

I initially replaced the longditunal (sp?)one and after a bit of a lay off- 'flu, holidays and winter, I found that the crosslide battery was exhausted but couldn't replace it with a SR44 battery-- and the plastic holder had been snapped.

So I can get a replacement, the cost is £50 and I'm loathe to part with that for a 'bit of plastic'. My thoughts are to make a new battery holder from cheap car bodge. 

As far as I can see, there is always the risk of separating the wiring 

strap from the little circuit board.  Indeed, guilty as charged!

Regards

Norm


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 10, 2018)

I have a spare DRO that no longer works.  The battery holder is in perfect shape tho.  I'm not sure how much is would cost to ship it to you if you are interested.  
Actually, I am wondering if you have the old style or the new style DRO's?  Is it silver of black casing?


goldstar31 said:


> I initially replaced the longditunal (sp?)one and after a bit of a lay off- 'flu, holidays and winter, I found that the crosslide battery was exhausted but couldn't replace it with a SR44 battery-- and the plastic holder had been snapped.
> 
> So I can get a replacement, the cost is £50 and I'm loathe to part with that for a 'bit of plastic'. My thoughts are to make a new battery holder from cheap car bodge.
> 
> ...


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 10, 2018)

Is this thread just for questions on the SC4 or can I also post mods to the SC4 here or should I start a new thread.  I'd Love to see more threads on the SC4 !


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## bazmak (Feb 11, 2018)

Anything on the Sc4 gratefully accepted


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## goldstar31 (Feb 11, 2018)

Perhaps Barry could change the title for others who are interested.  

I don't think that I will be alone in  looking forward to any valuable contributions on these machines

Cheers and thanks

Norman


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## bazmak (Feb 11, 2018)

As yet i have not done many mods except carriage lock and stop
Havent needed any or even adjusted slides etc I just use it
Ideal upgrade by sieg would be to get rid of the main drive
disengage and fit backgears for more torque.Also add tumbler reverse gears
for reversing the leadscrew.I would certainly upgrade


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## goldstar31 (Feb 11, 2018)

bazmak said:


> As yet i have not done many mods except carriage lock and stop
> Havent needed any or even adjusted slides etc I just use it
> Ideal upgrade by sieg would be to get rid of the main drive
> disengage and fit backgears for more torque.Also add tumbler reverse gears
> for reversing the leadscrew.I would certainly upgrade



I've adjusted my slides for the saddle and intend to alter the central gib screw to lock the saddle . Alternatively, I would add a couple more gib screws.

These will have to be made and  as I am unhappy about the pointed ends, it will be a job to make better stuff on the-- new-- tool and cutter grinder.:hDe:

As for adding a reverse etc, this should be feasible to do 'in house' as the 918/920( Mine was a 9180) in the past. Mine was supposed to have its slowest speed as 100 rpm which was too damned quick for me but it was actually 130rpm.

Clearly, there is a LOT of room for improvement.

As an aside, Barry, there is a lot of information from the pen of Martin Cleeve about both a gearbox and , of course, his dog clutch. It could be utilized?


Meantime, more snow and ice and therefore little enthusiasm

Norm


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## goldstar31 (Feb 11, 2018)

BucksMachinist said:


> I have a spare DRO that no longer works.  The battery holder is in perfect shape tho.  I'm not sure how much is would cost to ship it to you if you are interested.
> Actually, I am wondering if you have the old style or the new style DRO's?  Is it silver of black casing?



Both casings are sort of silver which I assume is the latest version.

Might I thank you for the generous offer of a spare battery holder but with living alone as an old, deaf widower, I have enormous problems with postal deliveries.

Failing a home made battery holder, I can buy a complete unit again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Following my comments to Barry( Bazmak), I might add a request for additional metric gears. Laughingly, I have full sets of Imperial gear cutters-- mumble, mumble!

Regards and thanks to both

N


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## goldstar31 (Feb 11, 2018)

deleted post


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## goldstar31 (Feb 11, 2018)

Unable to Delete after son's test


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 13, 2018)

Awesome. I have made a lot of mods to my lathe so I have a lot to share.   Im currently modifying the compound rest. My compound rest is slightly different from yours.   I have the modified version from Little Machine Shop.   The T slots are eliminated  and a step is machine in to the top of the slide  to accept the AXA tool post.   It works well but you cannot rotate compound past a certain degree if you were machining away from the chuck. Im taking pictures of the mods and Ill post them here to explain further 


bazmak said:


> Anything on the Sc4 gratefully accepted


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 13, 2018)

I am unsure of what you mean by getting rid of the main drive disengage ?   Its probably because this is my first lathe and have no previous experience on any other machine.  Wouldnt it be easier to change the belt drive ratio ?  
Ive never ran into an issue yet where I felt the lathe needed more torque.  Actually I shouldnt say that, I have had one instance where I wished it had more torque.  I was facing a piece of square 4.5 x 4.5 01 tool steel and the motor was working hard and taking deep interupted cuts.  I later discovered that I was using the wrong tool to face the part.  It was my fault, being somewhat new to the lathe.  
One thing I wish it did better was the motor breaking especially when threading.  It stops super fast with the 4 3 jaw chuck but with my 5C Collett Chuck and my 5 4 jaw independent Chuck it takes a little more time.  I have been wondering if there is away to increase the braking.  I dont know if its possible but I also have been considering fabricating a brake for the spindle using a bicycle disc brake and a foot pedal.  It could fit inside the headstock.  


bazmak said:


> As yet i have not done many mods except carriage lock and stop
> Havent needed any or even adjusted slides etc I just use it
> Ideal upgrade by sieg would be to get rid of the main drive
> disengage and fit backgears for more torque.Also add tumbler reverse gears
> for reversing the leadscrew.I would certainly upgrade


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 13, 2018)

Im going to apologize in advance for all the questions I have for you!   
The gib screw that you intend to modify, it it on the operators side or the back side ?

What is the 918/920 and 9180 number stand for?  Is it a particular series or model number or production number for the lathe?

Mine rungs at 100 rpm as verified by a separate hall effect sensor I have.  
As I stated above in the other post, cant we just cahange the ratio of the drive belt/pulleys?  If we can will the rpm readout be off or does this machine get its signal from a preprogrammed setting?

Lastly, could you show me where to find this info on the gearbox and dogclutch f from Marting Cleeve?  

Again, sorry for all of the questions.  I am eager to learn more about these machines and want to absorb anything I can find as there isnt much info on the web on the SC4.  If there is, then I just dont know where to find it or how to search for it.  



goldstar31 said:


> I've adjusted my slides for the saddle and intend to alter the central gib screw to lock the saddle . Alternatively, I would add a couple more gib screws.
> 
> These will have to be made and  as I am unhappy about the pointed ends, it will be a job to make better stuff on the-- new-- tool and cutter grinder.:hDe:
> 
> ...


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## bazmak (Feb 13, 2018)

Hi Buck,can you post some photos of your lathe.The 918 ref is i believe from Warco and it may not be identical to the sieg C4.The large knob at the front disengages the drive to the chuck for when/if you are using the milling attachment.
When i say more torque i mean at the lowest speed about 100rpm the variable speed motor bogs down easily under load and its not slow enough for screw cutting. A hi/lo gear system would be good in lieu of the disengage. Tumbler reverse gears would be also good to reverse the leadscrew for LH threads etc


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## JCSteam (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm interested in your brake idea, I suppose something could be rigged up similar to a spindle handle with the disc mounted to the expanding mandrel instead of the handle. Maybe a multi tool with both options. 

Disc brakes from bikes would be extremely sufficient at stopping the lathe spindle even with a large piece in the chuck. (I've had enough times over the handle bars on my push bike to know that one). I dont however know what would happen to the lathe, wether long term use could damage something like the electronics board, trying to pump power to the motor while it's not turning due to the disc brake been applied. As an emergency brake I like the idea, but im sure there are other means.


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## goldstar31 (Feb 13, 2018)

BucksMachinist said:


> Im going to apologize in advance for all the questions I have for you!
> The gib screw that you intend to modify, it it on the operators side or the back side ?
> 
> What is the 918/920 and 9180 number stand for?  Is it a particular series or model number or production number for the lathe?
> ...



The three gib screws are on the rear of the slide of the saddle. So it is quite sensible to interspace 2 between them.

The 918/920 is  for  yet another 'Chinese' lathe that swings 9" and has either 18 or 20" between centers.  However, it has a gear box- a bit clumsy but a gearbox. nevertheless. As it comes in the box, it has both chucks, a faceplate and both steadies as well as the ability to cut metric and imperial threads-- a bit too fast for me.

So Martin Cleeve. He had a ML4 beloved of JC Steam and did a lot of improvements which featured in Model Engineer and one was a dog clutch which appears both in Model Engineer and later in his excellent book 'Screwcutting in the Lathe' and this is still in print!

The gearbox mentioned is because the old Myford ML4 never had a gearbox and  when Cleeve got fed up swopping cogs he made an outrider gear box which was published a long time ago in Model Engineer.

On the subject of the newer( then ML7) Cleeve appears to be unable to purchase a full blown ML7 but persuaded to get Myford to sell him a part machine so that he could use fast and loose pulleys drive a big 1HP motor but also a 1/3rd one.

What isn't so well known( now) is that he utilized lots of fabrications to make  bits for both lathes and descriptions appeared in both Model Engineer and later in Engineering in Miniature. 

We - that is Jim Early and myself tried to put this work on the 'net after Cleeves death but ran into copyright problems  with the new masters of Model Engineer 

Alas Brother Jim has reached the Grand Lodge above and I'm near enough the journey at almost 88 now to continue.

However, I hope that this information might be constructive.

So there you have it 
Kind Regards

Norman


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## JCSteam (Feb 13, 2018)

Beloved??? Cursed sworn at and very nearly belted with a hammer lol Norm I think the beloved is too strong a word 

However the overdrive that Norm mentions is a clever device and would be able to be fitted as an add on to the sieg lathe with a modified cover, and an extra pulley added lower in the gear chain, an expanding mandrel that fits into the end of the spindle and carries a pulley, which can be engaged and disengaged by a quick slip of a vee belt. 

Have a look here for the article of screw cutting in the lathe.
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/news/article/martin-cleeve's-screwcutting-clutch/20508


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 14, 2018)

JCSteam, youre absolutely right. I didnt think about the electronic break.   I wonder if it will be of any harm to the electronics or the motor.   I do not know enough about electronics to rig up a switch that would deactivate the electronic braking while the disc brake is applied. 
 As far as any drawings or components go, I dont have any yet. I got the idea from a machinist or hobby forum, Im not sure which one it was, Ill have to look and post it here. Also ChrisB257 has two YouTube videos on adding a Bicycle disc brake to his lathe.   He has an older lathe though.  



JCSteam said:


> I'm interested in your brake idea, I suppose something could be rigged up similar to a spindle handle with the disc mounted to the expanding mandrel instead of the handle. Maybe a multi tool with both options.
> 
> Disc brakes from bikes would be extremely sufficient at stopping the lathe spindle even with a large piece in the chuck. (I've had enough times over the handle bars on my push bike to know that one). I dont however know what would happen to the lathe, wether long term use could damage something like the electronics board, trying to pump power to the motor while it's not turning due to the disc brake been applied. As an emergency brake I like the idea, but im sure there are other means.


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 14, 2018)

I will try and post some pictures tonight.   Being Valentine's Day, I might get in trouble with the Girlfriend tho!!  It&#8217;s a little machine shop part number 3595.   



bazmak said:


> Hi Buck,can you post some photos of your lathe.The 918 ref is i believe from Warco and it may not be identical to the sieg C4.The large knob at the front disengages the drive to the chuck for when/if you are using the milling attachment.
> When i say more torque i mean at the lowest speed about 100rpm the variable speed motor bogs down easily under load and its not slow enough for screw cutting. A hi/lo gear system would be good in lieu of the disengage. Tumbler reverse gears would be also good to reverse the leadscrew for LH threads etc


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## goldstar31 (Feb 14, 2018)

As far as I can deduce, the 918/920 is  not listed by Warco or Chester Hobby any more. 

 I can assure you that it is/was NOT a Sieg C4 lathe.

I'm now trying to browse the USA market

Regards

N


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 14, 2018)

That you for answering my questions.  Some of it I have never heard of.  I am going to start searching the web for these other lathes and people you speak of.  Sorry for my last post.  It was a bit hard to read which I just realized now.  I was trying to respond to you on my cell phone and it didnt work out so well!  
I do agree that more gib screws need to be added to the saddle.  I will eventually add more gib screws to the cross slide and the compound.  
There is a youtube video by dans-hobbies on change gears for the Chinese lathes.  In the video he makes a new and improved bango for the change gears.  He then added a set of gears to it so that he can more quickly switch between gear setups.  While its not as fast as a gear box it is a little quicker.  The lathe he has I believe is the next size of but most of the components are identical.  


goldstar31 said:


> The three gib screws are on the rear of the slide of the saddle. So it is quite sensible to interspace 2 between them.
> 
> The 918/920 is  for  yet another 'Chinese' lathe that swings 9" and has either 18 or 20" between centers.  However, it has a gear box- a bit clumsy but a gearbox. nevertheless. As it comes in the box, it has both chucks, a faceplate and both steadies as well as the ability to cut metric and imperial threads-- a bit too fast for me.
> 
> ...


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## goldstar31 (Feb 14, 2018)

I still have a "Pelman-istic' Memory and Chester Machine Tools has/had a  Chester920 manual and-- it is still on the internet.

Again both Grizzly and Harbor Freight SOLD them .

I hope that this helps

Cheers

N


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## BucksMachinist (Feb 14, 2018)

Wow!  You guys have given me so much information!  At the moment I need to get back to making a new spindle pulley for my Sieg X2 mill with a treadmill motor.  I will read all of this and post back here.  I almost torn between working on the lathe/mill or reading up on this new found info!  Thanks!  



JCSteam said:


> Beloved??? Cursed sworn at and very nearly belted with a hammer lol Norm I think the beloved is too strong a word
> 
> However the overdrive that Norm mentions is a clever device and would be able to be fitted as an add on to the sieg lathe with a modified cover, and an extra pulley added lower in the gear chain, an expanding mandrel that fits into the end of the spindle and carries a pulley, which can be engaged and disengaged by a quick slip of a vee belt.
> 
> ...


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## BucksMachinist (Apr 8, 2018)

I just added 3 additional gib screws to my SC4 lathe compound to make a total of 7 gibs screws.  I also added 2 thrust bearings to my modified leadscrew housing.  Its not all finished yet.  I have to trim the gib screws and I am not sure if I want to put a point on the end or a dog-point.  I also have to put a marker on the housing for the dial mark.  I just tore apart the cross-slide and am adding 4 gib screws for a total of 7 as well.  I&#8221;ll have pics of it hopefully tomorrow.  If you notice I have a bell crank on the cross-slide and a handwheel on the compound.  I cant decide which one I like better.  I am leaning towards the bell cranks for fine feeding be the handwheel traverses so much quicker and smoother.  If I can add a rotating handle to the bell cranks then I&#8217;ll stick with them.  I also want to get rid of the nylon locking nuts that hold the bell cranks on.   They rip the skin right off of your knuckles!  I have been thinking about making flush mounted nuts like are found on the south Bend lathe bell cranks


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## goldstar31 (Apr 8, 2018)

As you will appreciate, I also  advised readers of yet another source of SiegSC4 information. In fact, all 152 pages of the stuff and so far, it has all been a wasted effort on my part. Seemingly, no one but perhaps a trio can be minded to comment.
It becomes yet another "Love' s Labour Lost' and sensibly, I've moved on. I hope that you will find a solution to your 'gib' problem.

Briefly, I hit yet another gib problem but this time on my recently acquired Deckel clone Asiatic Tool and Cutter grinder- with one of yet again a miserable piece of 'cost cutting'. 
I cannot see me having the patience of constantly  readjusting gibs when changing the various useful functions available on this otherwise invaluable machine. 

Quite simply, I don't really want to 'go into print'  yet again.

So that is it?

Regards

Norm


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## BucksMachinist (Apr 8, 2018)

I&#8217;m sorry, what 152 pages of Sieg SC4 information?  Maybe I do not see the link

Robin Renzetti on youtube has started a series of videos (well one video so far) on fixing and improving the Grizzly tool and cutter grinder (Deckel clone).  I&#8217;d Love to get one of these


goldstar31 said:


> As you will appreciate, I also  advised readers of yet another source of SiegSC4 information. In fact, all 152 pages of the stuff and so far, it has all been a wasted effort on my part. Seemingly, no one but perhaps a trio can be minded to comment.
> It becomes yet another "Love' s Labour Lost' and sensibly, I've moved on. I hope that you will find a solution to your 'gib' problem.
> 
> Briefly, I hit yet another gib problem but this time on my recently acquired Deckel clone Asiatic Tool and Cutter grinder- with one of yet again a miserable piece of 'cost cutting'.
> ...


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## goldstar31 (Aug 21, 2018)

After some problems- health, holidays and  a rather impossible jam up on my SiegC4, I have traced and partially cured the problems. which are  no more that 'seized' bits because the lathe is 2007 and no one has removed old grease and whatever has accumulated since then.  A judicious hammer in the offending places.

Everything now works provided I can do a sort of 'double de-clutch' which I learned on a 1935 Morris 8!

So the autumn /winter fogs and mists have returned and I fancy a milling facility-- in the WARM!

So has anyone tried one or other of the 2 milling attachments on the SiegC4 or SC4- assuming they are much or a muchness?

I simply do not have room in my little study for anything else. but to go 'vertically'--- onwards and upwards- Per Ardua Asbestos and that sort of thing.

For those who haven't read earlier but I am not short of the other accessories such as in 2 and 3 Morse taper.
Any comments please?


Norm


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## goldstar31 (Aug 22, 2018)

I have now  purchases, taken delivery, assembled and am now commissioning the smaller of the two milling attachments. Seemingly, if I stick to 10mm mills etc and a 20mm face mill that all will be well.

So 3 more things will emerge. The first is to add more gibscrews, the second is to add the subtable to take a miscellany of things like rotary tables, dividing heads and  a variety of vices- one of which is a rather ancient turret job  which is capable of holding all sorts of diameters. The third is to add a selection of variously threaded draw bars.

I might make a pump to blow cows into a spherical shape

It seems to be the latest thing- if you believe some!

Norm


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