# Hardware Store Boiler



## IronHorse

I needed a "shop Boiler" to power my steam models. I found these plans on this site and I started to build it a few weeks ago. Most of the parts I got from local hardware stores. I only had to "fire-up" the lathe to make the Safety valve. Today I gave it a test, only pressurized it to 5 Psi, appears to work OK, I will do some more tests next week. 













Before I put the heat to it, I did a Hydraulic Test to 80Psi. I only intend it to run it at 15 - 20 Psi. Next I hooked it up to the air line and set the safety valve to 15Psi

Here is the setup I used:











I still have to make a base for it and also a bracket for the steam pipe valve. 

Here is a video of the test, sorry no sound:





Overall it was a fun project and the hardest part was finding all the fittings.

IRONHOURSE


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## BobWarfield

Looks like a fun little project!

BW


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## Brass_Machine

Neat! Where did you get the plans from? This site?

Eric


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## Kludge

IronHorse  said:
			
		

> I needed a "shop Boiler" to power my steam models. I found these plans on this site



Ooooh, where? That looks like a seriously cool boiler that would go well with some of my creations. 

Eric, with a little trim, wouldn't it do nicely with some of the Neo-Victorian engines? 

Best regards,

Kludge


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## sparky961

Nice, clean-looking project there.

Tell me, did you also find something to buy/modify for the base, or is that your own creation?

Thanks from another Canuck...

-Sparky


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## IronHorse

The plans are on this site somewhere. They where a few pages from a 60"s Popular Machanics mag. I think they called it a pipe boiler

The base in the video is just a couple of fire bricks. I will stop at my metal guy soon and pick up a slab of 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2" plate. Mabe I will try some "engine Turning" on it.


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## Circlip

Sorry to pea on your fire Ironhorse, or lucky I did, DON'T rely on PTFE tape to make a good seal on your heater coil to the " boiler " bottom connections, It's gonna burn and leak, the burner not only heats the watertube, but also the bottom of the boiler. The basic design is a watertube boiler but originally made from copper on this side of the pond but with Silver soldered connections. Don't confuse strength with safety.
 Regards Ian.


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## Kludge

IronHorse  said:
			
		

> The plans are on this site somewhere. They where a few pages from a 60"s Popular Machanics mag. I think they called it a pipe boiler



Found it: 

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2098.msg17438#msg17438

For those who may be excited by such things ... 

Best regards,

kludge


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## Circlip

" Prop the burner on a block of wood "
 Yep, I've got some 60's super-regen radio gear that I'm going to put into a scale twin gas turbined model of the SR71!
 Regards Ian.


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## Kludge

Circlip  said:
			
		

> " Prop the burner on a block of wood "



It looks like IronHorse ignored that particular bit and went right for something a little more appropriate.



> Yep, I've got some 60's super-regen radio gear that I'm going to put into a scale twin gas turbined model of the SR71!



Those regens were cool! My first R/C rig was a Babcock regen running rudder-only initially then rudder and elevator (two positions, fly a bit nose up or crash - never could get the up position to work right). After that, it was a semiconductor (again a regen) and a smaller homemade rudder & elevator dual escapement (fly, ride the edge of a stall, or crash). When a particularly sadistic CBer decided "fun" was defined as blipping on channel to make the airplane do weird things, I moved to the 6m ham band and started over. Oh, and I bought some larger engines. 

Anyway, getting back ... He probably didn't line the housing with asbestos either as shown in one of the drawings. I don't think we can get it on this side of the ponds (two since I'm out in the Pacific.) 

Best regards,

Kludge ... who will be building this boiler but not quite as described ...


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## Circlip

Sandy's version of a boiler in the free download plans is MUCH safer Kludge, think how inconvenient it is for your loved ones to visit the ER.
 Regards Ian
PS our super regen stuff had the same crash bits built in.


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## Kludge

Circlip  said:
			
		

> Sandy's version of a boiler in the free download plans is MUCH safer



Already snared for my permanent collection of snared plans. 



> think how inconvenient it is for your loved ones to visit the ER.



Noelle is my only family* and she can't leave where she is for medical reasons. We each know that being in the ER and sometimes being an inpatient is part of the drill for both of us so the best news is _not_ having anyone call us because that indicates that it has gotten to living will seriousness.

This isn't to say we don't worry and want a Full Report once the situation is cleared or that prayer isn't also part of the process. Faith is a large part of both our lives - kind of goes with the territory of being a retired minister and a minister's daughter. 

With that, though, is a promise I made to Noelle that I will _never_ leave her. (Natural causes isn't included - nothing I can do about that.) I will never break a Noelle-promise or, as I like to say it, she's stuck with the old fart who loves spoiling her without mercy. As a result, I'm prone to be overcautious about a lot of things. Well, I am now. My somewhat checkered past is full of examples where the only reason I stayed alive is blind luck and the firm belief as a youth that I was immortal. 



> PS our super regen stuff had the same crash bits built in.



This is part of a little known conspiracy between the various manufacturers to increase sales. What is considered by the model airplane community as an incidental contact with the ground at speed is actually built into every airplane, engine, propellor and radio (and a few other bits) so one or another fails at some random and often undetectable manner causing the pilot to go out and buy replacements. 

Replacement equipment is, of course, more advanced and costly (to buy, not to make) than what crashed in the first place which is how we got from the old valve-type Babcock et al equipment to the multi-channel digital radios used today (and corresponding "improvements" in other parts of the hobby as well.)

Which leads me to the question of "What in the world possessed me to buy the plans for an airplane that requires _two_ 8-channel radios to fly?"

BEst regards,

KLudge


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## IronHorse

Thanks for your comments on my boiler, and thanks for the suggestion to remove the PTF tape. I take safety very seriously, when I run this thing I have a heavy coat on, full face shield and welding gloves. I would think that at 7Psi the boiler is not going to burst but a line or fitting may fail, and I think I am protected against that. I am more worried about running my collection of antique steam toys once or twice a year.

Down the road there is a bunch of guys that run steam trains on tracks, I will stop by and try to mooch some "boiler sealer" to replace the PTF

I made the fire box a little wider than was shown in the plans, and Asbestos is impossible to get in Canada so I made a inner heat shield to protect the BBQ paint job.

Here is a video of the boiler powering my PM-2 engine:


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## Brass_Machine

Very cool. Thanks for the video. I do like seeing engines run on steam. I pull moy small boiler out at least once a month.

Eric


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## Kludge

Circlip  said:
			
		

> Sandy's version of a boiler in the free download plans



I forgot to ask ... 

The ceramic burners mentioned in both the horizontal and vertical boilers ... what are they and where can they be acquired without raising too much suspicion?

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Bernd

Kludge  said:
			
		

> I forgot to ask ...
> 
> The ceramic burners mentioned in both the horizontal and vertical boilers ... what are they and where can they be acquired without raising too much suspicion?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Kludge



I found several in a gas heater bought at the local home improvement store. They have ceramic burners. I haven't used one for the purpose of a burner, but I'm sure they can be converted. I also want to try a catalytic converter from a car. I took out the insides of one. It can be cut with a metal hack saw into small slices. So here we have two sources. Can't vouch for either since I haven't tried them but I bet they would work.

Regards,
Bernd


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## Kludge

RE: ceramic burners ... 



			
				Bernd  said:
			
		

> I found several in a gas heater bought at the local home improvement store.
> /quote]
> 
> Oh, dear. I need to do some online shopping then since heaters aren't common items in Hawaii. (Neither are firebrick or furnace cement, as I've quickly discovered. This puts a damper on building a small furnace for ... well, much of anything.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also want to try a catalytic converter from a car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, that I can get. I just have to remember to ask my neighbor across the hall about it. He's a local mechanic and can get all sorts of interesting things.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Kludge
Click to expand...


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## Bogstandard

The ceramic burner from a normal household gas fire is of no use for making ones for burners, they are a hard pottery type of ceramic. You need the ceramic elements out of portable calor gas heaters. It is a very soft and lightweight material that can be cut with a knife. It looks like square based pyramids with a hole at the bottom of each edge of the pyramid. The flame produced doesn't get very large, and the pyramids actually glow red hot, that is what gives the radiant heat for warming up the boiler.

I think I gave someone the link for the Polly Model Engineering catalogue download, they can be bought from there in small sheets. A sheet should make about six burner elements of the larger size. I used to turn (very carefully) circular ones for my boilers.

This is what a ceramic burner for a boiler looks like. They can be square or oblong shape as well.

http://www.maccsteam.com/Burners/Burners.html

Hope this has cleared a few things up (or made everyone even more confused)

John


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## Bernd

Bogs's,

After looking at that link for the burners I took a close look at the portable one I have in the basement. Here's a pic of the burner side. It's natural gas.






Here's a close up of the material.






Looks like the same stuff, almost. It may be harder than the model burners but I think it could be cut with a diamond coated saw.

I figured if one was found tossed out by the curb it might be useful for a burner. :-\

Regards,
Bernd


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## Kludge

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Hope this has cleared a few things up (or made everyone even more confused)



Well, yes. The confusion is even more clear now. ;D

I downloaded Polly Engineering's catalog and found the sheets you mentioned. I found a lot of other good things as well as a result, my wallet seems to have found a new best friend. *sigh*

I'm trying to remember where I saw piping elbows and flanges and other detail items for use with boiler & steam engine plumbing but it's just not happening. I may not be able to build anything substantial right now but I can align my quackers for the glorious day I have my shop back in operation ... which is why the Polly Engineering catalog is so dangerous. 

Thanks for the info, John.

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Bogstandard

Bernd,

Try pushing a sewing needle into it in an area that won't be noticed.

If it goes into it like it was similar to oasis block (a very closed cell foam) then it can be used. 
If it is very difficult or impossible to push in, sorry, it can't be used.

The reason for the difference is that household or town gas has different calorific value than propane or butane. So with the bottled gas, the harder one doesn't glow like the softer one.

Unless of course you want to run your boiler from the domestic gas supply. But the pipe would have to be mighty long if you want to sail a boat.

Kludge,

American sites seem to have a better selection of cast pipe fittings like elbows and flanges than the UK ones. So if you look carefully at a lot of English made engines, they have bent pipes rather than cast elbows. If we do need them, we are expected to make our own. Also it seems, the US makers tend to use larger pipes than we normally use. 1/8" and 5/32" are our standard sizes.

Bogs


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## Kludge

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> American sites seem to have a better selection of cast pipe fittings like elbows and flanges than the UK ones.



That's interesting. Some of the most beautiful and detailed engines I've seen came from the UK and I figured all the nifty stuff would be over there. This news brings about a total paradigm shift! 

I've found some nice cast fittings that can be silver soldered to the "piping" to look like cast iron makeups at http://www.livesteam.com/ but thus far, no flanges or flanged fittings. This I find somewhat distressing since it indicates I might have to *horror of horrors* actually _make_ them. 



> If we do need them, we are expected to make our own.



Oh. Well. In that case ... 



> Also it seems, the US makers tend to use larger pipes than we normally use. 1/8" and 5/32" are our standard sizes.



Well, lets see ... pressure is in pounds per square inch (over here; the rest of the world does it differently) so if you add more square inches (or at least parts of them), you should have more pressure, right? The fact that this also goes through water at a rather prodigious rate is just an incidental inconvenience. ;D

As a side issue, I will likely build one of these boilers - with some changes like silver soldering a lot and answering some other safety concerns - but I also expect to buy my "get serious" boiler (or boilers) since the discussion here has made me extremely wary of making one and I do have that promise to Noelle taking priority over my abilities or lack thereof. There are places I will push my abilities as much as I can. That ain't one of them.

Best regards,

Cautious Kludge


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## mklotz

PM Research sells trees of model pipe fittings in various sizes. 

http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/home.php?cat=39

I've used them on my model boiler and they look very nice. It's a bit tedious to drill and tap them but worth the effort for the improvement in appearance.


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## Bogstandard

Marv,

Just had a quick look around that site. I can't believe how much they charge for copper tube. I have just bought a 10 metre (33ft) length of 1/8" annealed copper tube. That cost about £12 ($24). Larger sizes are about the same ratio. I search for annealed copper brake pipe. Much cheaper than model engineering sites.

I did like those 1/8" cast bronze sets of fittings. They are just not available over here as far as I know. The larger sizes are generally not needed. Shame they don't do 5/32".

John


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## mklotz

One goes to the ME sites to get things one can't obtain elsewhere. They're never the best price for stock stuff like tubing, pipe, fasteners, etc..


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## Kludge

mklotz  said:
			
		

> PM Research sells trees of model pipe fittings in various sizes.



Cool! Thanks for this. They are lovely!



> It's a bit tedious to drill and tap them but worth the effort for the improvement in appearance.



Drill is good. It's kind of necessary actually if anything's going to flow through it by some means other than magic or a particularly unique application of quantum coupling which I don't think would work anyway. 

Tap I'm not so sure about. I'm more likely to silver solder instead even though the effect isn't quite the same. (Or do both, come to think of it.) Any exposed threads on the tubing would be covered with lagging - which I haven't yet found again after I found it once before and mislaid the bookmark, at which I'm really quite good :-[ - for those sections that are lagged so they wouldn't actually have to be threaded anyway. 

I'm still looking for flanges for things like attaching to steam chests and the like. Also, I remember seeing flanged valves here and there (to make them easier to remove/replace in the prototypes?) and other fittings. Even with 6-8 (rather tiny) bolts holding them together, I can't see them being good for much more than 15-20 psi before something really bad happens. (Ian, any thoughts on this?)

John, I'm thinking 1/8" for the plumbing for most of my engines. A few places around the boilers may be bigger but that's things like safety valves et al. Small tubing with the safeties set in the 12-15 psi range should aughta be about right for all except the hugest of them. In that case, I'll have to bump up to larger tubing with the safeties left alone.

The air operated engines will use larger tubing but they don't count for this. They're more "Kludge Gone Wild" enignes for entertainment purposes only.

Speaking of plumbing, is there any reason the tubing under the boiler has to be coiled? I had the idea that laying it flat like the cooling tubing on a locomotive air compressor laid over on its side with the cool end lower than the hot end would work nicely as well. Heat would be applied evenly the length of the tubing from a source that can heat the full length evenly and the whole thing could be isolated from the boiler so it's not directly heated quite so much.

This was a middle of the night demon-fighter idea so probably has more holes in it than any of several varieties of Swiss cheese but I would be interested in comments.

Best regards,

Kludge ... after another sleepless night


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## Bernd

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Bernd,
> 
> Try pushing a sewing needle into it in an area that won't be noticed.
> 
> If it goes into it like it was similar to oasis block (a very closed cell foam) then it can be used.
> If it is very difficult or impossible to push in, sorry, it can't be used.
> 
> The reason for the difference is that household or town gas has different calorific value than propane or butane. So with the bottled gas, the harder one doesn't glow like the softer one.



That stuff is harder than dried cement. Guess it can't be used. Did learn something here too. 

Thanks John.

Bernd


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## Dhow Nunda wallah

I'm a complete novice to model steam, so pardon me if I've got the wrong idea but...
Is the ceramic used mainly as a wick for alcohol burners, or is it a radiant element?

If the former, pumice works just fine and shouldn't be too hard to get hold of even in the supermarket.
Maybe Kludge could pick it up around Kilauea? 
I've even used pumice to burn kero, oil, diesel etc.


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## Bogstandard

Kludge,

This is how I make pipe to engine flanges.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=527.0

John


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## mklotz

> I did like those 1/8" cast bronze sets of fittings. They are just not available over here as far as I know. The larger sizes are generally not needed. Shame they don't do 5/32".



John,

I just now went out into the Garaj Mahal and measured two of the trees I have. The nominal 1/4" has an OD of 0.33". The smaller, nominal 3/16, measure 0.27". I'm sure you could drill the latter to take 5/32 (0.156") tubing. They're cheap enough that ordering a few trees to play with won't break your budget - after that new shop we know you're really a secret millionaire.

I've attached a picture of some of the plumbing on my boiler. It uses the 1/4" for the larger pipe and the 3/16" for the smaller.


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## Bogstandard

Marv,

They really do give an engine an 'authentic' look.

I will have to get onto PM to see if they accept PayPal and get a load shipped over.

Millionaire - phooey!!. 

But in another way, I am the richest man in the world, good friends and aquaintances are worth their weight in gold.

John


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## Kludge

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> This is how I make pipe to engine flanges.



Kewl! And I like the terminology; it kind of fits. 

While I was thinking more of round flanges, these look lovely and certainly are doable. One thing I was struck by (again) was your explanation of how it's done. I don't know if you have "instructor" in your credentials but if not, you should. Everything was easy to follow without a whole bunch of techie jargon and was enjoyable to read. Further, it's typical of how you explain things, more "over a cuppa" rather than classroom which is fantastic for newbies.

Once again, marvelously done :bow:

Best regards,

Kludge


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## mklotz

John,

If they don't accept Paypal, let me know and I'll order what you want. Maybe we can do some sort of exchange - pipe fittings + beer coupons or ? for some MTP or ME taps.


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## Kludge

Dhow Nunda wallah  said:
			
		

> Maybe Kludge could pick it up around Kilauea?



Heh, heh, heh ... if I could get close enough but it's on a completely different island. Besides, dealing with Pele can be hazardous on a good day. Removing anything she doesn't want removed can cause even the best day become something that makes Hell a resort by comparison for the poor fool who upset her. 

But the idea of using pumice as a wick sounds like a cool way to get an evenly distributed fire under things that need to be made hot. hmmm ... 

BEst regards,

KLudge


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## Kludge

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> I will have to get onto PM to see if they accept PayPal and get a load shipped over.



They probably do since they do eBay, but they also say they have a UK dealer which may be a gooder thing for you.



> But in another way, I am the richest man in the world, good friends and aquaintances are worth their weight in gold.



"A man's worth isn't measured by the gold he has but by the friends he keeps." I can't remember who said that the people here definitely make anyone wealthy beyond imagination.

Best regards,

KLudge


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## Bogstandard

Kludge,

Thanks for the info.

BTW, I don't class myself as an expert in anything, just a layman with a bit of experience. So if I use layman's language, it gets the info over so that almost anyone can understand.


Marv,

MTP taps in this country require a second mortgage to purchase them, but ME are very reasonable.

I will see how I get on, and I just might take you up on your very kind offer.

John


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## mklotz

More expensive than this ?...

http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/home.php?cat=315

I had the idea (obviously wrong) that with all the model engineering going on in the scepter'd Isle, they'd be lying around on the ground for the picking up.


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## CrewCab

mklotz  said:
			
		

> More expensive than this ?...



just a nad's  .............. *MTP Taps*

CC


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## mklotz

John Stevenson is always remarking that things over there cost the same as over here, except the pound is worth two dollars! I guess he's right.


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## CrewCab

That's about right for as long as I can remember Marv ................ which is quite a lot of years ???

CC


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## Kludge

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> BTW, I don't class myself as an expert in anything, just a layman with a bit of experience. So if I use layman's language, it gets the info over so that almost anyone can understand.



And? Clear, concise, easy to understand and relaxed. I really do think we need to encourage you to write a book - an assemblage of things like that as they come up for ... well, just about anyone interested in model machining.

Of course, all the folks here get autographed copies. ;D

Best regards,

kludge


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## Bogstandard

Kludge,

Been there, got the t-shirt. In fact you have posted on the back end of the resurrection of the old post.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=615.0

John


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## Kludge

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Been there, got the t-shirt.



Whoa! We have t-shirts here too? 



> In fact you have posted on the back end of the resurrection of the old post.



I've downloaded those pages and marveled at the language. The design too but the language meant a lot. Both in school learning how to be an aircraft mechanic and later a ME, then spending part of my career working at a college (I did a little teaching but mostly I was one of those evil & much hated admin critters), I learned that language meant a lot. That you're a lay person with experience seems to be a magic combination because you do have the experience to make things and the language skills to make it a lot easier for complete morons like me understand how to do the same thing. Thankfully, the vast majority of folks here are significantly more intelligent so if I understand what you're saying/doing, anyone can. 

So, a compromise? No book but make the explanations like the one how you did the flanges available as a download in some form or another? They're already written so there's no real extra effort and collecting them will be a lot easier that doing a copy/paste/convert to PDF. (Er, wait. Can I admit to doing that?)

BEst regards,

Kludge


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## Circlip

Sorry for no reaction on the flange question Kludge, nothing wrong with them providing the mating faces don't resemble a plowed field, or better still they do but with a suitable gasket material between them. Have also seen flared ends on pipes of model steam fittings, like car brake pipe ends, the instructions for the HSB state this on the leader to the heater coil. You could use straight tubes for the water tubes, but what the designer has done it to try to get as much heat extraction from the blowlamp flame - Flash steam boilers are coiled tube - normally, if you can call flash steam normal.
 Just a thought John and Marv. If you both set small bank accounts on opposite sides of the pond, you could send each other "" Presents "" An oppo of mine in a "Far eastern" country does this. A matter of mutual trust, but Hey, can't see a problem with you two, OH buns, ANYBODY on this site, although SOMEONES reference to Yorkshiremen has created an entry "In Zee Book" (Think his name begins with D )
 You learn something new every day, never heard of the taper taps and dies for ME sizes before, seems a contradiction in our sizes for the problem of locking a taper. Seen the NPTF threads in proper engineering, but they can be machine cut, just never come across them in our sizes.
 Regards Ian.


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## Bogstandard

Ian,

Really, as far as I am aware, MTP are only used by the die hards who require perfection in authenticity, replicating tapered pipe fittings, I suppose if they were made more available here, like ME taps and dies, people would start to use them. But as it is, most people are like yourself, and have never heard of them. I only knew about them because I was nosey one time at a model engineering display, and asked how the chap had made such nice, compact fittings (as usual, once you get these chaps going, they tell you their life history, but I did learn a bit about tapered taps and dies in the modelling world).
I would also suspect they produce a much better seal over a shorter screw in distance because of the taper.

Maybe Marv can enlighten us a little more.

John


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## mklotz

I don't think I can provide much in the way of enlightenment.

One almost never sees them called out on this side of the pond except in the case of plans derived from British sources or model designers who cut their teeth on back issues of "Model Engineer".

As Bogs indicated, their main application is to provide good sealing, just as in full-size practice. The engine I'm working on right now calls out MTP for removable oiling bungs in the top cylinder covers. If I had the tap and die, I'd make them as per plan. Lacking the tackle I will probably do something different or ignore them completely since the boiler already has a displacement oiler.

Another application is for commercially supplied accessories, e.g., safety valves, gauges, etc.. Some of the older vendors used to supply these with preformed MTP threads. However, this practice seems to be waning.

With the advent of modern sealants, the need for MTP is reduced although in an application where the part must be oft removed and replaced they still make sense, I suppose.


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## Kludge

Circlip  said:
			
		

> Sorry for no reaction on the flange question Kludge, nothing wrong with them providing the mating faces don't resemble a plowed field, or better still they do but with a suitable gasket material between them.



I like gaskets anyway. I winder if cutting very shallow concentric rings on the mating surfaces so they kind of mesh together might not help them seal. Hmmm ... something to consider ... 



> You could use straight tubes for the water tubes, but what the designer has done it to try to get as much heat extraction from the blowlamp flame - Flash steam boilers are coiled tube - normally, if you can call flash steam normal.



They're kind of like the flash water heaters we used on boats - well, some used. There was no tank but taking a shower burned a lot more propane than it was worth.

I'm looking at something like an alcohol burner under the length of the tubing which might not heat as fast but I _think_ would be a lot more efficient. The tubing would be made so it's always climbing cold end to hot end which would make it look almost like a road with a bunch of switchbacks on it and it should be enough to raise the 15 pounds or so pressure I want. 

Thanks for your thoughts, Ian. I appreciate them.

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Kludge

mklotz  said:
			
		

> I don't think I can provide much in the way of enlightenment.



So much for Zen. :big:



> As Bogs indicated, their main application is to provide good sealing, just as in full-size practice.



But then, in addition to that, there is the occasional fool like me who thinks they just look good. The taps and dies are expensive but what price aesthetics? 



> Another application is for commercially supplied accessories, e.g., safety valves, gauges, etc..



Ummm ... who might still have these? 

My steam engines may be somewhat fanciful (and a few totally implausable) but I like how these look. Yes, it's purely aesthetics rather than practicality or being a purist who is looking for that last bit of autheticity, but they're purty and bright and shiny and like that there. Besides, where would neo-Victorian engines be without proper plumbing? 

BEst regards,

Kludge


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## Dhow Nunda wallah

Kludge, you're a man after my own heart.

"I like gaskets anyway. I winder if cutting very shallow concentric rings on the mating surfaces so they kind of mesh together might not help them seal. Hmmm ... something to consider .."

Call em gramophone flanges here. At least in the industrial environment in which I were dragged up.
Twas my thought to make some kind of form tool for the folly upon which I have embarked, in order to seal the flanges with oiled paper gaskets.

A true gramophone flange actually has concentric grooves rather than a single spiral.
Then again, perhaps at scale, a spiral would do?
I'm looking at 3 cyl, 54 stroke, 36 bore.
Just another reason to finish the power crossfeed on the 9x20.

Slainte, Lin


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## mklotz

Kludge  said:
			
		

> My steam engines may be somewhat fanciful (and a few totally implausable) but I like how these look. ...



So, when are we going to see some pictures of these engines?


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## Dhow Nunda wallah

Mine Marv?
I can't even export DXFs yet 

Got it fairly firmly in mind though.
Until I get to bed, and the design changes again


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## Kludge

mklotz  said:
			
		

> So, when are we going to see some pictures of these engines?



As soon as I get my shop in proper running order again, however in a fit of absolute desperation I may try to create one using the Clisby and whatever I can turnip for materials. I think I can do that on the little bitty table I'm using to sort and put away my speshul hand tools. It should be a testament to it's capabilities too. Or lack thereof.

BEst regards,

Kludge the Frustrated


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## BobWarfield

Why Kludge, surely you must realize that Kludge is more than a name. It is a verb and a way of doing things.

You must simply "kludge" an engine together!

Cheers,

BW


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## Kludge

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> Why Kludge, surely you must realize that Kludge is more than a name. It is a verb and a way of doing things.



It's also a noun often but not always preceded by words I don't use. :-[

However, the verb form is how I got this nickname. It's more often seen without the 'd' but after many attempts by any number of people to "correct" it, I have retained the 'd' and wear it proudly. I think I should file it down someday, though. It tends to itch now and then. ;D



> You must simply "kludge" an engine together!



That's pretty much what I have in mind but this gives me an excuse to try out the Clisby as well. Two stones, one bird ... pretty clever, no?

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Kludge

Several people have mentioned things in this thread like the MPT taps & dies, already made valves and such threaded for MPT and an assortment of other wonderfulness. I know where I can get fitting castings and the taps/dies for them but not the valves et al which would be really nice to find. Anyone have any pointers/URLs/etc?

Now, for the nice people in the UK ... 

I'm not sure I understand when ME hardware is preferable vs BA hardware vs any of a number of other choices. Actually, I'm sure I don't understand even just a tiny itsy bitsy bit. I know that "preferable" has been stated as a matter of choice but I don't understand how they all came about and what they're intended to be used for. This isn't to say I'm going to run out and buy a full set of anything (I'd be more likely to do so on line. ) but having some understanding of this would be nice. 

Or stated another way, I'm very curious. ;D

BEst regards,

Kludge


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## Circlip

Ok Kludge, over here in Limeyland, WE invented Model engineering, so WE decided on thread sizes just to p3ss the rest of the world off cos at THAT time we could! OK? :big: :big: :big:
 Seribously though, the constant pitch sizes were judged to be the most effective fixings to fasten the materials we were using together. Consider tapping into sheet copper with the"Bigger" size threads, and then look at BA sizes. In BA,the pitch is a function of the diameter, so on that basis, what pitch for a 3/8" dia for a safety valve? A mate in Malaysia is using some oddball metric sizes-11mm x 1mm pitch and various others, but thats due to availability of threading tackle out there, or not, in the case of ME sizes.
 Best Regards  Ian.


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## Kludge

Circlip  said:
			
		

> Ok Kludge, over here in Limeyland, WE invented Model engineering, so WE decided on thread sizes just to p3ss the rest of the world off cos at THAT time we could! OK?



Why am I not surprised? :big:



> Seribously though, the constant pitch sizes were judged to be the most effective fixings to fasten the materials we were using together. Consider tapping into sheet copper with the"Bigger" size threads, and then look at BA sizes.



Okay, I'm strange (for a yank) but I kind of like the idea of using ME threaded hardware. Maybe I'm more a traditionalist than I want to admit to being? :-\



> A mate in Malaysia is using some oddball metric sizes-11mm x 1mm pitch and various others, but thats due to availability of threading tackle out there, or not, in the case of ME sizes.



Watchmaker's lathes use odd threads for the drawbars & collets. I run into oddball diameters & thread pitches here and there, mostly in time pieces & cameras. For the lathes, I need to find someone who will cut one-off taps and dies for me so I can maintain the threads on mine plus make new accessories as needed. For the rest ... I do what I can.

Is this the fun part?

Best regards,

Kludge


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