# Round headed bolts



## Captain Jerry (May 22, 2011)

Help

My son-in-law insists on using adjustable wrenches and when that fails resorts to a pipe wrench. After all the corners are gone, he comes to me for help. I guess he is to old to train properly.

Does anybody have a good method of dealing with buggered bolt heads (7/8") that does not involve welding?

Does anybody have a good method of dealing with a hard headed son-in-law that does not involve shooting?

Jerry


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## Brian Rupnow (May 22, 2011)

Possibly drill and tap with a left handed tap, then screw in a grade 8 left hand thread bolt to back out the buggered round head bolt. As for the son in law---If he's old enough to make things involving nuts and bolts and still untrained, there is no hope for him.


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## PhillyVa (May 22, 2011)

Jerry,
Use a baseball bat... :big: it's a lot quieter, :big: then he might hear you when you ask "come to me before you touch anything"...it will be a lot easier on you...he...he...he

Regards

Philly


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## Captain Jerry (May 22, 2011)

Brian

That would work but its Sunday and left handed taps and bolts are hard to find.

He is 48 and its probably too late. Got two blades changed on a three bladed mower. One to go! He was using a 3 foot pipe with the pipe wrench before he gave up so it won't be easy. The other two bolts aren't pretty either!

Thanks
Jerry


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## maverick (May 22, 2011)

Jerry- I've seen a set of sockets with internal teeth kind of like an easy out, at harbor frieght IIRC. Worth a shot
anyway. Don't mean to brag but my son-in-law is turning out pretty well.

Mike


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## PhillyVa (May 22, 2011)

Jerry,

On tough moving bolts like that I use a Mapps or propane tourch to heat it real hot and then spray penitrating oil on...that will beak the rust on the threads loose and some oil will lube the threads. You may have to do it a couple of times if not done (hot enough) correctly.

Philly


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## Captain Jerry (May 22, 2011)

Thanks Maverick, Ive seen the external EZouts but I don't think I ever saw one big enough and besides, it's Sunday. I keep saying its Sunday to remind myself to watch my language.

OK, I'm gathering up my tools:

Torch
Penetrating oil
Baseball bat

Anything else?

Jerry


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## Tin Falcon (May 22, 2011)

Gee lets thinks here 7/8 bolt head just bigger than supplied in most standard wench sets the ones i have anyway. My guess is he does not have the proper sized wrench or socket. and is either too cheap or lazy to buy the right tool so resorts to the good old fitzall ethnic socket set.
 I have bought my son proper tools for Christmas since he has been about five. A couple years ago I got him a nice deal on a full basic set of sears tools on a black Friday special IIRC $250 dollar set for $160 or something like that. last year a couple sets of gear wrenches. he is pretty good with mechanical stuff. 

So here is my suggestion help him get the proper tools for the job. take him shopping,give a give card buy him some tools for birthday Christmas etc get your daughter involved if needed . 

Buy yourself one of these. You could could call it an attitude adjusting tool AKA dead blow hammer these are great as they are designed not to bounce back when striking a hard object. Threaten to use it if he fails to use the proper tool in the future. problem solved. 






Tin 
PS you said this is on a Mower? is it a left handed thread holding the blade on and he tried turning it the wrong way . 
Maybe an operator head space adjusting tool is in order? Oh yea you said you have the BB bat. LOL.
tin


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## Foozer (May 22, 2011)

Sounds like a couple of new spindles coming up. Changing the blades on my mower is a task i dislike much for the reason your experiencing. I got one of those HF electric impact guns with sized socket just for that purpose. Mine on held on with a nut to the spindle(s)


Robert


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## bearcar1 (May 22, 2011)

A three foot pipe over the handle of a pipe wrench is some pretty serious leverage. And the bolt, round head and all still won't come loose? He may be turning the bolt ion the wrong direction to remove. (left handed thread?) That or that fastener hasn't seen daylight for a long, long, time and is rusted itself to the spindle. If the blade bar itself can be held firmly from moving, the application of heat until the bolt head itself is as close to glowing as possible (some intense localized heat) and then allowed to cool down to ambient temperature should free up the seized fastener. That is if it wasn't cross threaded in the first place, which from the sounds of things with your SIL, could be a distinct possibility. Best of luck, and I'll be watching the papers for any mysterious deaths in your area ;D :big:


BC1
Jim


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## Captain Jerry (May 22, 2011)

Its off!

I went into his garage. He has a full set of Craftsman box/end wrenches up to 1" but its too late now. As I said, he insists on adjustable wrenches.

So I made a wrench out of a piece of 2" x 1/4" x 36" steel. Drilled a hex pattern of 1/4" holes and milled out the inner hex to be slightly undersize to the bolt head. Then used a file to bring it to a very close undersize fit and then used a BIG hammer to drive it over the bolt.  Of course before doing this, I heated, hammered, and penetrated the bejesus out of it. Once I got my improvised wrench over it, the battle was won.

Its Sunday. I'm icing down the beer and heating up the grill. Its gonna be a great day!

Jerry


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## MachineTom (May 22, 2011)

Good Show Dad, here's a old time fixer for rounded heads. Best results are with steel shim stock, but in the woods a soda can will work. A 6 point socket, or 6 point wrench, lay shim stock, thin pieces .002-.004 across the bolt head, position socket linied up with flats, with BFH, drive socket onto bolt, loosen bolt. Fine points learned, lay the shim across the two BEST flats, a few strong wacks on the head of the bolt will help loosen stuck bolts, do not jerk on the wrench when doing this, use a cheater if you need to. In this case if it were mine, I'd blow the head of the bolts off with a cutting torch, remove the mower blade and the bolt will most likely come out with vise grips, a saw would be slower but effective as well.


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## kcmillin (May 22, 2011)

I know you already accomplished this, but I though I would share the method I use for rounded bolts.

I take a dremel cut off wheel and cut a slot in the top of the head, for a flat screwdriver, then proceed to remove the bolt with a screwdriver. pretty simple, though you would need a big screwdriver for a 7/8" bolt.

Kel


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## bentprop (May 22, 2011)

A method bush mechanics use is to get a cold chisel and a hammer,and tap on the side of the bolt till you've got a moderately deep gash,then tap the bolt in the unscrewing direction.This will of course require a new bolt to re-install the item,but you shouldn't reuse a dud anyway.


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## Captain Jerry (May 22, 2011)

Machine Tom

That's a good solution and I had thought of it, but since I don't have any shim stock, I gave up the thought. For some reason, I never think of soda cans as a substitute. It may have worked but this bolt was pretty round. I don't think I could have identified the best set of flats.


Kel

I have a big screwdriver but I don't think I could turn it. For smaller stuff I can usually get a pair of vise grips on it.

Jerry


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## krv3000 (May 22, 2011)

HI well this is my tip file or grind Wat remans of the bolt Head round in shape with a bit of a taper IE bigger at the bottom and thinner at the top get a nut the same sises or bigger drill out the nut to fit over the remans of the old bolt just enuf for you to hammer it home on the taper then you can ether brass braise the nut on or set to with a stick welder or MiG with stick or MiG set up on hi to get a good weld leev to cool and the old bolt shod cum out wit no problems


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## steamer (May 22, 2011)

Thanks for the Tip Kevin.

I know I've rounded over plenty of hex bolts, and then grabbed the vice grips.

This would work better!


Dave


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## Ned Ludd (May 22, 2011)

Hi Guys,
When faced with a rusted bolt and you do get it to move DON'T go yippee and try to continue to turn it if it is still reluctant to move freely. It is better to work it backwards and forwards, while applying lube. till it starts to move more in the un-do direction. Quite often you get the bolt to move a little then it seizes and the head shears off, but working back and fore really helps.
This is the voice of experience speaking here. 
Ned


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## Brian Rupnow (May 22, 2011)

Damn---Somehow I'm always late for the party!!! When I seen the title of your post, what came to mind was round headed carriage bolts. Its only after reading all the subsequent posts that I realized you meant "Hex head bolts with the corners rounded off".----Gotta be an age related thing-------


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## steamer (May 22, 2011)

Ned Ludd  said:
			
		

> Hi Guys,
> When faced with a rusted bolt and you do get it to move DON'T go yippee and try to continue to turn it if it is still reluctant to move freely. It is better to work it backwards and forwards, while applying lube. till it starts to move more in the un-do direction. Quite often you get the bolt to move a little then it seizes and the head shears off, but working back and fore really helps.
> This is the voice of experience speaking here.
> Ned




....hmmm...about that point I get the "Blue" wrench out... ;D

Dave


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## Herbiev (May 22, 2011)

4" angle grinder. Grind head off. Tap stud out, install new bolt and find good hiding spot for adjusable wrenches ;D


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## dsquire (May 23, 2011)

Herbiev  said:
			
		

> 4" angle grinder. Grind head off. Tap stud out, install new bolt and find good hiding spot for adjusable wrenches ;D



hmm, hows that work for blind holes?

Cheers 

Don


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## Arnak (May 23, 2011)

Hi Captain Jerry,

You've had plenty of advice on how to remove the bolt but here's some to stop him doing it in the first place. 

First, tell him that you are not going to help him the next time he uses an adjustable wrench! *club*

You will need to stick to that threat as if each time he does damage a bolt head he knows that all he has to do is come to you to fix it, so there is no incentive to use the correct tool. 

Once he realises that you mean what you say and he has to fix it himself or pay someone to fix it for him he'll get the message eventually. :redface2:

Arnak


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## Herbiev (May 23, 2011)

Hi Don. For blind holes where no welding allowed an EZ Out would be my weapon of choice. And still hide the adjustables. :big:


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## dsquire (May 23, 2011)

Herbiev 

Yes , I have had to use a few EZee Out's in my day as well when you are running out of options. You don't have to hide the adjustable, you just have to know when to use it and when not to use it.

Cheers 

Don


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## Captain Jerry (May 23, 2011)

Arnak

You have no idea just how deep the hardness is on this head. Not the bolt head. The son-in-law head. He is a horse trainer, not a mechanic. Last month he asked me to look at a tractor out at the his training center. He has 34 thorobreds in training and it is a very busy and active operation.

The tractor is a Montana (Chinese made) with a front loader attachment. There are a number of bolts holding it on but the primary support is by three bolts on each side at the bottom of the lift cylinder bracket that go through a spacer plate and into the transmission case. On one side, all of the bolts were sheared off even with the case. 

I pulled one of the bolts of of the opposite side to check for size and left to gather tools and supplies, including EZ outs. I was gone for two hours.

When I got back, the tractor was being used to load a mixture of wood chips and manure into the dump truck. Damn those Chinese transmission cases are tough.

I got the broken bolts out and replaced without much trouble using the EZ out. The bolts were the metric equivalent of a grade 8 and approx 2 1/2" long but the broken pieces were only about 1" long. I figured that they had worked loose and worked out about 1/2" before they sheared off.

On the other hand, he knows horses. We went to the track at Tampa where he had a couple of horses running. It was Kentucky Derby day and we could place a legal bet at the track. I know nothing about horses so I followed his lead and placed a complicated bet that included a trifecta with Animal Kingdom at the top.

I had started with a 10 dollar bet on the local races and following his lead had hit big on the last two races at Tampa. I put the whole thing on the Animal Kingdom bet and the long odds made the payoff big.

I'm sure he tells all his horse trainer buddies how little his father-in-law know and how he had to take care of me at the track.

It all works out.

Jerry


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## maverick (May 23, 2011)

You're right Jerry, some are skilled with mechanical things and some have skills in other areas. And if your lucky, 
you also have skills in keeping peace in the family.

Regards,
Mike


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## lordedmond (May 23, 2011)

OT for the current problem of machine abuse

I friend at work long ago recalled that his wife, to enable the washing machine to empty faster used to pull out the filter , well a button when down and jammed the pump , so he fixed it , this happened twice the third time he when into the workshop and got the required tools and plonked them on the washer " you broke it you fix it " , well the washing piled up and up , but she did fix it in the end , guess what the pump never got blocked again.


You have shown him how to fix it next time give him your patent tool and wait , when his grass is waist high and he get grief from his SWMBO he will fix it 


Stuart


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## Captain Jerry (May 23, 2011)

Truth is, I'm retired with very little pressure on my time and I love a challenge, especially a mechanical challenge. Next time it will be something else and I'll get into it.

When I was cruising (on the sailboat, not the streets) the two most common topics at a get together were fishing and fixing. Cruising has been described as "repairing your boat in exotic places with minimum resources".
I still miss it!

Jerry


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## Russel (May 23, 2011)

Herbiev  said:
			
		

> [...] and find good hiding spot for adjusable wrenches ;D



No need to hide them, just open the jaws as wide as they go and weld them there.


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## picclock (May 23, 2011)

Had a similar problem bolt and cut a slot in it with an angle grinder, as kcmillin suggested. But then I milled a piece of 500mmx40x6mm steel to the slot thickness in the centre to fit the slot. Because I was pulling and pushing at either end of the bar all the force was exerted at the centre of rotation, the bolt, which then reluctantly unscrewed.

Remember using a 12 foot length length of iron pipe on a socket set with my back against the wall and both feet pushing - remarkably the second socket didn't split ;D

picclock


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## MachineTom (May 23, 2011)

It's funny reading the suggestions for getting this bolt out. I guess we all don't fully grasp what we read at times, before we engage our typing fingers. The device is a mower, and the bolt has a 7/8" head for a 9/16 shank bolt (I assume) or could be a 7/8" shank then a 1 3/8 head. In either case a screwdriver slot is a bit off the mark, to remove such a bolt. An Eas-out will not move a torqued down bolt of any size, they are used to remove broken bolts, meaning zero torque on the threads from tightening. 

Just LOL thinking of a screwdriver on a bolt that was round off with an adjustable wrench, no flaiming intent.


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## kherseth (May 23, 2011)

I HATE rusted/stuck/round bolts!!

When changing engine in my trackday car, i also wanted to change the differential. Turns out those bolts had been rusting the last 20years so all 4(!!) snapped with very little force, really annoying having 4 stuck bolts, under a car with no means of lifting the car up. Luckily, this being a trackday car, minor technical details does not matter, so i got the angle grinder and cut myself a big hole in the trunk. Cut away the welded nuts and replaced with normal nuts, guess it works good as i have not crashed yet 

I know you could get a screw extraction set containing some very hard steel rods(i think they are squared), you drill a hole, hammer in a rod and use a special tool to grip it. I never used it, but they say it works great, if the rods handle the force, break it and you`ll have some serious problems.


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## tel (May 23, 2011)

> In either case a screwdriver slot is a bit off the mark, to remove such a bolt. An Eas-out will not move a torqued down bolt of any size, they are used to remove broken bolts, meaning zero torque on the threads from tightening.



Surely tho', unless the bolt/stud has bottomed out, removing the head will release the torque?


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## Tin Falcon (May 23, 2011)

in my day job scale mechanic I am often tasked to remove bolts that have been in a while. often out in the weather.
a socket and breaker bar are my friend as is PB blaster and plenty of never seize when things are put back together. when we are doing demo work on a truck scale and replacing the whole thing tactics are a bit different w do not fuss with 1 1/2 nuts and 3/4 studs they get torched clean with the concrete.
Tin


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## Swede (Jun 2, 2011)

Heck, it's not always the younger folk (sons-in-law) that do stuff like this... my FATHER in law showed up one day in their RV, and he mentioned he was having some sort of issue with an aluminum window trim piece. So I come home from work, walk through my shop, and my eye is instantly drawn to my _brand new 8" bench grinder._

The wheel looked like it was aluminum, not aluminum oxide. He had ground his aluminum piece to size on my bench grinder. The wheel was 100% loaded. I cried in a secret, quiet place for a while...


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