# Diamond tool usage ??



## sourdoughsmitty (Dec 30, 2009)

hi guys , 
Just a question here ,has anyone used the "diamond '" tool advertised in hsm ?
thanx smitty


----------



## b.lindsey (Dec 30, 2009)

Smitty,
I have had one for several years now and use it on my Sherline. I like it and it works quite well, though it isn't a one tool does all kind of thing. Works well for facing and longitudinal cuts though I usually have to adjust the angle somewhat when switching from one to the other. It is a well made holder with the benefit that the cutting tools are nothing more than square blanks in the appropriate size for the holder. The main benefit is that with the supplied fixture, reshapening is relatively easy and foolproof. They are a bit pricey but overall i give it a thumbs up. 

Hope that helps

Bill


----------



## Cedge (Dec 30, 2009)

Smitty
I made my own and it worked great. As Bill said, it's not an all to end all tool, but there are places where I'd reach for it first. It does allow for some pretty aggressive turning, while offering a beautiful finish cut on the return travel. I'm not too sure I'd buy it at the prices I've seen on line, but having spent only about $1.50 in scrap metal, it's been a pretty nice tool to have around.

Steve


----------



## sourdoughsmitty (Dec 31, 2009)

HI guys,
Thanx for the in put as to making one sounds interesting would need the sketches on this as well as the sharpening guide I presume too ,after watching the video it seems to center around this item quite a bit
thanx smitty


----------



## MikeR C (Dec 31, 2009)

I bought a Bay-Com "diamond" tool holder quite a while back, it uses standard 1/4" HSS bits, for an Atlas lathe and now have it in a quick change holder for a 9X19 Grizzly. As commented above it doesn't do everything but I find myself reaching for it more often than any other tool. It is expensive, but, every once and a while I just bite the bullet and spend what it costs and hope for the best. In my opinion it was money well spent.
If you do some searching for "tangential tool holder" you will find references to this type of tool. There are several "shop made" ones out there and some would probably be better than the Bay-Com, and certainly are cheaper. I have seen some that hold two bits at a time which would be very handy. I bought mine a long time ago and wasn't looking at the machine forums at that time (my loss!)
The biggest obstacle to getting one for me was deciding if it was worth the rather high price they were asking, and in retrospect, to me it was. The following are some observations on the Bay-Com holder that may help you decide:

When the tool is rotated just right the angle of the point is less than 90 so it will turn and face at the same time. This makes turning to a 90 degree shoulder a no brainer.
You can cut a new bit in half and sharpen both ends of both pieces and have four sharp cutting ends in a very short time, I find I will switch instead of working with a dull bit.
If the bit is rolled in the sharpening fixture 180 when you swap ends it puts the points on opposite corners, this lets you put two different radiuses on the points. This is very easy with a diamond stone, you round of the length of the bit so the radius stays the same everytime you sharpen it.
Sharpening it is very fast, no need to finish "just one more cut".
Essentially no skill needed for sharpening it, and very fast once the initial sharpening is done, you decide whether this is good or bad 
The angles generated will cut most materials pretty good, not as good as a purpose sharpened bit, but for most things, good enough.
If you have a wreck and hit the chuck jaws or overrun a cut (this has NEVER happened to me  ) it will generally force the bit down in the holder and cause less damage.

Some of the cons:
It is designed to cut towards the chuck, you can sometimes get it adjusted to cut towards the tailstock but it is not designed for that. Really depends on how long your workpiece is. This would be a consideration if deciding to make one (make a left and a right, or one that holds two bits).
It can be set to turn and face at the same setting but does a slightly better job if you rotate it so the cutting edge is at right angles to the cut, it just depends on what you are trying to do, some times I move it and sometimes I don't.
The cutting angles provided are not perfect for all materials, like all all things where "one size fits all" it doesn't fit anybody perfect. I do "flatten" the top of the point when cutting brass but that is by hand, the sharpener fixture does not do that automatically.
It is not suitable for making form tools. (other than radiusing the point)

In my opinion, I use it all the time and if it disappeared today, I would fork out the cash and order one tomorrow. it is a very convenient general purpose tool and I like it very much. I realize this is kinda long, so I hope it is worth reading.

Thx
MikeR C


----------



## shred (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks for the review. One question though.. Every time somebody brings up the diamond toolholder, one of the features is "you can face and turn with the same tool". I've been putting regular tools at an angle to do that for years. Is there something I'm not getting about how the diamond TH does it?


----------



## Richard1 (Dec 31, 2009)

Mine was bought out of Melbourne Australia many years ago, I don't remember the make. It takes standard 1/4 HSS toolbits. As others have said it will turn and face at the same setting (6 degrees towards the chuck in my case) The tools are easy to sharpen, I don't know about the suitability of cutting angles for all metals but mine has been cutting 316 stainless everyday for the last 5 or 10 years, I'd be totally lost without it.


----------



## steamer (Jan 1, 2010)

Shred,

I think its the fact that you only have to grind the end of the tool and your able to turn and face is the major attraction.

JMO

Dave


----------



## vlmarshall (Jan 1, 2010)

Ok, 9 posts and no photo or link? ;D I want to SEE this thing, so I know what everyone's talking about. :big:


----------



## Majorstrain (Jan 1, 2010)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Ok, 9 posts and no photo or link? ;D I want to SEE this thing, so I know what everyone's talking about. :big:



Your wish in my command
http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=18

love the video, staight out of the 60's and 70's mold, right down to the music. :big:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAPrkC7Q-Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAPrkC7Q-Q[/ame]

Cheers
Phil

ps. not linked to them in any way, just did a Google search


----------



## vlmarshall (Jan 1, 2010)

Thank you...and, wow.  Not at all what I was imagining.
I see it'll hold round tools too, has anyone tried it with carbide?
Now I want one. ;D


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 1, 2010)

Ok vern heres your pic. IIRC These have been discussed here before they are also called tangential tool holders



> The Diamond Tool Holder was originally developed in Australia by Des Burke in 1985 and manufactured by him until 2006. At the age of 80 Des finally hung up his production overalls to spend more time in his shed on hobby engineering .
> 
> Since Des started the Diamond Tool Holder many thousands have been sold across the world, the majority in Australia and the USA where our distributor, Bay-Com, handle our sales.


 the tool was realy developed in the late 1800s by smith and coventry and is referenced in Paul Hasllucks book Metal working
Metal working
tin


----------



## Noitoen (Jan 1, 2010)

When you said diamond I thought about the "diamond" insert from a 1200 mm concrete cutting saw blade that I was given by a friend :big: Tried to grind it but the grind stone looked like butter. Must make a tool to try it on the lathe since it cuts through steel reinforced concrete like it's made of wood.


----------



## vlmarshall (Jan 1, 2010)

Yeah, when I first saw the thread title I was thinking "diamond"... nice for cutting something that's way up on the Rockwell scale, but not so good for interrupted cuts. ;D
Then, I imagined diamond-shaped carbide inserts... nothing unusual there, until you all started talking about HSS inserts and the difficulty of facing.

NOW I see. Great idea, I think it'd work well, especially for someone I know that hates grinding tools.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 1, 2010)

> Yeah, when I first saw the thread title I was thinking "diamond"... nice for cutting something that's way up on the Rockwell scale, but not so good for interrupted cuts. Grin


Well those can be had too for a price
http://www.diamondtool.com/turntool.html
Tin


----------



## JimM (Jan 1, 2010)

Don't know what the availability of 'Model Engineering Workshop' is worldwide but in the Autumn2009 edition (no 156) there is an article about making one of these tangential tool holders


----------



## Deanofid (Jan 1, 2010)

Mike RC, thanks for the review. And, Richard1, thanks for your comments on cutting 316 with this tool.

I've thought about one of these for years, but the price always seemed a bit out of line for a single HSS tool holder. Maybe it's not. 

Dean


----------



## fgleich (Feb 20, 2010)

Here's one Gadgetbuilder made for his QCTP:

http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/ToolHolders.html

just scroll down til you see tangential tool holder. He also made a sharpening jig for the bit.


----------

