# ML4 setup



## JCSteam

Been a while since I visited this forum.

I've been busy with the kids, but I've also been hard at work

Having got the lathe in the shed I then went to see how far out the tail stock was, it needs some fine tuning. * 

So a shopping list. - belt for drive, a spanner to fit the bolts on the gibs, and x8 M8 nuts bolts washers 

Time to set it up properly


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## JCSteam

How do I embed photos to the page??

Managed to load from my mobile, sorry about the top three photos


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## JCSteam

Done a little more in between looking after the kids.*

This is my first attempt at setting up a tool in the tool post and shimming it to the correct height, sorry poor lighting so pics aren't great, need to shed some light on the situation. **

This was one method to check, using the jaws of the 4 jaw to check it's alignment as the cross slide was fed across it's face. I think it's either spot on or just above centre. Will find out when the chuck starts spinning. *(The jaws are not clamped tight against one another, not even touching).*

Everything has been given an oil over too. And is a lot smoother now.*


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## JCSteam

Hi, just found a few issues with the lathe. First one that there appeared to be a tight spot on the top slide. This was just over around 1/2" of travel. I slackened the gibs off and it was still there until the gibs were so loose that top slide rocked back and forth. Ive traced it to the bolt that secures the top slide to the cross slide.  When I slackened this off the binding disappeared completely. And felt the movement whilst I retightened it. Should I be worried about this as surely that means that the casting for the top slide is been bent, thus the cross slide cannot be level??? Or am I just been a brute when I tighten the bolts up???


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## goldstar31

Perhaps you continue to be wandering from the accepted norms of machine tool practice.

Do you actually know if your lathe will cut metal? I am putting the next question of accuracy into a pigeon hole for another time.

Have the wheels turned? Again, your earlier post suggests that you have oiled it( and yourself) but as one excellent poster has suggested, do you now know where every nut and bolt is- and secondly, what does it do? 

Returning to lathes, it is necessary to follow Baz's column and he know PRECISELY what his lathe will do. Regarding the present question, might I ask you whether this point where the top slide sticks of whether you determined this by cranking the handle or did you removed the feed nut and feed screw assembly?  Did you remove ALL the gunge and oil and adjust the gibs for smooth operation using the feel of your hands pushing the slide up and down and feeling for an even tightness ?Continuing  the quest for answers, if the slide fails to provide an even slide, have you blued  the non gibbed side and looked for 'something which is high or worn convex or concave?
If there is a problem, what remedial steps have you done or propose? Again, once you are sure that the working face of the gib is OK, Is the gib itself beyond reproach? If it is not flat or worn, what steps have you or what do you propose to correct the error?

Once you have got things right, you can blue one face  and offer it to some essentially flat 'reference' like a piece of thick plate glass or granite headstone  or whatever. Again, you scrape and blue and scrape and blue till the whole thing is flattish- and then you start to either blow your brains out or determine the spots of contact per square inch .  Then you tackle the next part and you don't forget the arris raised by the tool holding bot- or dare I say it- tee bolt?

My old battered lathe with the paint missing off or not on? Oh, yes, it's flat.

Something to think about- which applies to all old lathes regardless of cost and size.

Cheers


Norm


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## JCSteam

Thanks for your reply Norm. When I bought the lathe it all turned freely and no binding. Though there was a lot of gunge and old oil on the bed and slides. I sprayed the whole machine with WD40, and wiped it down with a rag. Making sure not to spray the pulleys. I took the top slide and gib out again wiping these down. And wiped the top slide casting that bolts to the cross slide. I wiped the top surface of the cross slide bed down and removed this by fully unscrewing. Then pulling off the last 1/4", looking at both the threads they looked in good condition and also looked at the nuts they screw into cleaning these out with a tooth brush and more wD40. I didn't go as far as the saddle but I checked the half nuts engage and also traverse the saddle, using the dial indicator to make sure the thread was in the right place. I reassembled in reverse order using slide oil given to me by stilldrilling (david) adjusting the gibs so as they moved easily with as little sideways movement as possible. Oiling and using slide oil on the mating surfaces. The motor was also tested to ensure it runs. I cleaned over the chuck and spindle the same removing the jaws in order and cleaning out the gunk and metal chips that were in there before replacing in the correct seqence. 

My issue has come around 2 months after all this, I adjusted the clamp for the top slide turning it so it sits at a slight angle into the lathe. The tight spot was at 90 degrees to an imaginary centre line between the two top bolt once past this point it turned freely again. Once I slackened the Larger of the two clamp bolts the tight spot had disappeared. (It was only about 3 degrees of movement on the bolt)

I haven't done any scraping of surfaces as I want to be able to bolt the lathe down and take measurements to make sure what I do makes improvements.


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## JCSteam

Here's some pics of the cross slide and top slide. I decided i would use Norms suggestion for setting the gibs up by hand feel first. 

Any suggestions on removing these two screws for the apron? They've been chewed up before, and putting a screwdriver (of the right size) to them doesnt do nothing. But I'd like to get them off to inspect the half nuts and give them a good clean too. 

I know that very soon I will have to sort the surfaces out, but I haven't the means to do that currently. So I'll persevere with the shoddy set up, trying to set everything up nice and neat.

Out of interest what is the thread on the grub screws as they are missing any locking nuts, both top and cross slide.


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## JCSteam

Ok engage red face!  :wall:

After stopping the top slide and cross slide assembly off the top of the lathe, I took it apart tonight to see what was binding. After reassembly the same thing happened again. So backed off the Larger of the two nuts securing the top slide. And it turned freely. I nipped it up again and binding. I happened to look over to the other side where the nut was. Funny how a hex shaped nut can make all the difference. It also explains why the top slide suddenly went slack, the day after adjusting the gibs. The edge of the nut was making contact with the top slide casting. When I had adjusted the gibs I must have adjusted them against the corner if the nut. I had moved the top slide to a different angle to play with set up. The edge of the nut must not have made any contact. So the top slide suddenly was very slack. 

Funny how it's always the simple things! And new part to make on the list. A bolt with a smaller head so it doesn't make contact with the top slide. At least I may get some practice at screw cutting lol.


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## bazmak

I was going to say that if it only happened in one spot check for
outside interference such as that nut,before stripping down
No need to be red faced it happens to us all.My comment would
be that from the photos the cross slide seems in bad condition
Try cleaning up with a smooth file,emery and maybe a scraper
Polish up the mating parts of the dovetail and gibbs with wet/dry
and wd40 in the direction of travel.I think we appreciate you are a newcomer
with little tooling or facilities so simple /inexpensive things are the way to go
for now.As Norm says,a good clean and check free movement before getting
the lathe running.The sooner the better,then the problems start to surface
If you can turn a piece of mild steel then your halfway there.First job might be to skim your dead centres if their soft and machine a little clearance on that nut.Keep posting your
problems and we will help you sort them out.Remember that photos speak
a thousand words.Dont worry about a red face.I cringe when i remember
to the first time i tried top up the oil in a car,thru the dipstick hole ???


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## goldstar31

After our phone discussion last night, I've also had a look at your photos and extra questions.
Guessing about the grub screws, I would hazard a guess that they will be 2BA. These don't come cheap to replace. The rest of small threads will probably be in BSF sizes.  Mine are!

Looking at the top slide suggests that the ways were 'fine milled' rather than fine milled and then hand scraped. Following Baz's comments, I often use a 600g diamond sharpening 'stone' to remove Arris's where threads and nuts have ragged.  I've been cutting tee nuts for the Sieg and these come off the 6 x4 saw rather raggy. I should change the blade but-BUT?

As to removing the saddle etc, you can use these extractors which are on sale today at either Aldi or Lidl but remember that you must have new bolts to replace them.

Thanks for the 'natter'

Norm


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## JCSteam

Now the tea and nicotine has kicked in I can make a legible response lol. 

Baz the reason that I came across the issue of the top slide was because I was setting the top slide up in different positions to work out how to turn the taper on the dead centres. So I could set a test bar up and level the lathe, on studding and nuts. Moving it around from it's normal position showed up the issue of it catching. 

Norm was a pleasure to have a chat with you last night, and I think I have some 2BA nuts if not I'll ask on another forum for some only need x8 shame really as I could have got some from where I worked. But that's out the question now lol failing that a 2ba tap is only £2-3, hex stock to fit in the 3 jaw is a few quid. So I can get them made up. 

Someone on the Mamod forums suggested instead of making completely new nut and bolt for the top slide to just file or turn the part down to the required size so it fits under the top slide casting. Think that'll work for me


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## JCSteam

goldstar31 said:


> Guessing about the grub screws, I would hazard a guess that they will be 2BA. These don't come cheap to replace. The rest of small threads will probably be in BSF sizes.  Mine are!
> 
> Thanks for the 'natter'
> 
> Norm



Well we will see if you are correct. X8 2BA nuts winging their way to me in the next week from a friend on the Mamod forum. 

Baz you said to keep posting. I'll warn you all now I like to batter and post a lot. In 2 years on the Mamod forums I've racked up nearly 10,000 posts.....you have been warned lol


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## bazmak

Try to keep any questions or problems simple with photos Norm is very learned
and helpful but his answers sometimes like puzzles and you sometimes have to
work them out.Always puts a smile on my face now i am used to him.I would
consider retapping the 2ba say M5 and use comm. available cap screws,after all
its a cheap working home lathe not a museum piece.Of the old school i have no 
qualms about changing screw sizes.Only on models that requ hex hds do i stick to original
Norm,do you mean to say that you have filled a worn way with plastic
and it solved the problem ??


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## goldstar31

I learned when I was teaching and supervising( from being a 17 Year old) to make an explanation correct but induce a bit of head scratching. I was taught by a very astute but naughty old boss from being a child leaving an almost non existent war time school to where I am today. 70 years have passed- my old top clerk never forgot how much I taught him and laughingly, he went on to marry my top audio typist - in a completely different world. 

If you leave things to discover, the student learns. If you make it easy, the student will forget and ask the same damn fool question again and again.

One of the greatest authorities on locomotive valve gear wrote to me as follows:


'Please find enclosed the books which intrigued you. In spite of making this definitive information, I still see questions in magazines like************* asking the same old things--- and getting the same silly answers'

And so to answer Baz.

It now possible to get plastics which can be loaded with all sorts of goodies from sawdust to metal and ceramics. Loctite, Devcon, Turcite and so on are the medium to replace worn parts on machine tools. I simply understood liquid epoxies and mixed it with some with iron fillings.
I think that I did an accelerated gel and waited for it all to set rock hard and quietly scraped the excess off and I had a new bearing surface.

Recently, I had my Super 7B slideways ground but a professional machine restorer Turcited the worn saddle thus savings either having to scrap the lathe or at best, buy a new saddle casting and have it machined.

It's a topic well documented now and worth reading up.

OK?

Cheers

Norm


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## JCSteam

I have much to learn, I am well aware of that. I"'ll try and keep things simple, can't always promise as I tend to overcomplivatr things for myself if no one else. 

If they turn out they aren't already 2BA, then I'll tap them larger and buy some hex head bolts from wilko, turn the end to a point and bish bash bosh all's good. 

I know that resins can be quite stiff. But even filled with another material I can see it been able to twist and flex. 

I was actually looking at your thread Baz and the cross slide you made the gib for. Surely would be able to make a vertical slide using the cross slide as a a reference


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## fcheslop

Hi Jon, for now I would embrace the KISS principal until you gain a wee bit of working knowledge
The compound slide could either be done away with or locked up to get rid of play at this stage of the game'
There has already been some very good advice given but as a tyro you need to balance what is achievable to you 
Im not the most proficient of posters but one problem that needs addressing sooner or later is to dowel the gibs instead of relying on the adjusting screws to hold the gib in place a problem that Myford never did learn to overcome and a job I need to do shortly again 
best wishes


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## JCSteam

fcheslop said:


> Hi Jon, for now I would embrace the KISS principal until you gain a wee bit of working knowledge
> The compound slide could either be done away with or locked up to get rid of play at this stage of the game'
> There has already been some very good advice given but as a tyro you need to balance what is achievable to you
> Im not the most proficient of posters but one problem that needs addressing sooner or later is to dowel the gibs instead of relying on the adjusting screws to hold the gib in place a problem that Myford never did learn to overcome and a job I need to do shortly again
> best wishes



 You are quite right, it could be locked up for my needs at the moment. 

I'm just trying to get a feel for what the machine feels like during movement, so I can distinguish between normal operation or vibration when the lathes making chips. If that makes sense. 

I have to ask you to describe what you mean by the gibs. I was looking at getting some lock nuts for the adjusters which will stop vibration movement. They are dome shaped which locate into the holes in the back of the gib. Other than that im afraid youve lost me what you mean


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## fcheslop

The gib strips are held in place by the dimples formed or drilled for the adjusting screws its possible under certain conditions for them to move
To prevent this it is better to drill and dowel them into position
I find on my machine when using the rear tool post for parting say 50mm it will cause the cross slide to become a little tight .This is due to the gib strip moving
I cured this on other myfords by dowelling the gib to the slide. Iv just been to lazy to do the job on the current machine.again its a mod mentioned in the book previously mentioned . Although Myfords are a reasonable machine like most they are not without problems and Iv worked on a few as a hobby machinist and a service engineer for some well known makes before I went to the dark side making coffee for a living 
cheers


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## bazmak

As i previuosly stated in the past i milled flats over the dimples to position and hold the gibb.Also gives the the adjusting screws a flat face to push on
On my last post i just spotted thru the screw holes into the gibb a couple
of mm and ground the screws at 120o to suit the drill point.I find this more
than adequate for the small bench lathes.
I can only emphasise that the important part is to have the gibbs the full area
of the diamond to prevent rock and help capture the gibb.Its a while since 
i owned a Myford so cant visualize the amount of adjustment.All i can say
is if its more than 10 thou i would make a new one.
I did an early post where i used the compound to make a vertical slide on the
mini lathe,but dont know if it would work on the ML4
Thanks Norm i will take your word,there is a lot inovative new designs out there
I remember when my wife had a dental implant and i asked the size of the screw thread as he used a mini torque wrench to tighten it up


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## Blogwitch

Having repaired, restored and rebuilt one of these lathes for my own use many years ago, and it is still going strong in my friends small workshop, you really need some help to do it correctly, and to bring it up to modern day specs, like having an instinctive saddle travel handle where you don't turn it the wrong way and punch the tool into the chuck, plus a lot more speeds available..

Someone with a good strong lathe and mill (plus maybe a surface grinder) should be able to restore your parts to like new, and to help you set up the machine for optimal performance.

Even fully rebuilt and restored, the machine only really has value to yourself, as it would be worth hardly anything on the open market, so what you need to do is get it done so that your lathe will last you for many years so that you get the enjoyment from it..

Playing about with it without knowing exactly what is needed will only cause you heartache over time.

I am sure that there will be someone in your area that is competent to do the precision jobs for you at very little cost or even free. Most people will give their time freely, but traveling and materials do cost money.

If I am still around in a couple of months or three, and you are still not up to scratch,  then I would be willing to do most of the difficult machining work for you.

Read this old post as it contains some good info on nose threads for the ML4.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=97030

John


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## JCSteam

Hi John, thanks for the link, I'm on that site too as it happens 

My nose is different to the ones mentioned though. It has a 3/4" x 9TPI whitworth nose. Not the 1.1/2" mentioned on the other site. I was looking at trying to identify it as I was looking to buying a collet chuck and a few collets. One that fits to a back plate than uses a taper. So needed to identify the thread on it. As it happens the lathe came with a tap just this size, and seems good condition. So at least I won't need to buy one of those.


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## bazmak

If its std 3/4"W then buy a couple of hex nuts (coupling nuts may be better).Weld one to a plate
screw on the lathe and turn to any fitting you want.A good start
would be 80dia with a 55mm spigot drilled to suit cheap chucks
etc for the sieg 7x series of lathes


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## JCSteam

That's a good simple idea cheers


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## JCSteam

Hello, how do I adjust the slop in the lead screw. I have had a read and it says to tighten the nut. However there isn't anything to tighten against, just a single nut. Any ideas please on how to tighten this up??

There is a lot more wear on the moving surfaces than I thought, i will use some wet and dry paper to try and smooth the dovetails out. Can the paper be glued onto the mating surface??


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## goldstar31

JCSteam said:


> There is a lot more wear on the moving surfaces than I thought, i will use some wet and dry paper to try and smooth the dovetails out. Can the paper be glued onto the mating surface??


 
I think that you need someone with a BIG milling machine in preparation to scraping the bed  to a known reference When I did a ML7 bed and Super 7 one in the past, I had them 'blancharded ' on a Lumsden grinder. This enables a straight edge to be scraped to the new known reference. Then, and only then should the other dovetails be addressed. Not with wet and dry . 

I've done it but airy fairy techniques are recipes for disaster.  

It took the late David Lammas a week to do an early ML and then he tackled the new feed screws

Regards

Norm


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## JCSteam

Cripes what have I got myself into

I don't have funds to out source this job. The lathe may be rested up a while for now. 

On another note here's a link I found which shows what can be done. May keep a hold of that tumble gear after all now I know where it can be fitted. 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford-ml2-rebuild/


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## fcheslop

http://neme-s.org/Model_Engineer_Files/Overhaul-a Lathe.pdf

http://totallyscrewedmachineshop.com/documents/Navy-Machinery-Repairman.pdf

http://www.****************.com/threads/bed-wear-and-what-to-do-about-it.34100/


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## JCSteam

Thank you Frazer i always love some bedtime reading


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## fcheslop

A little hard going but one of the best free books
https://archive.org/details/MachineToolReconditioningEdwardF.Connelly
Sleep tight


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## JCSteam

I've just nearly got my head around the one about the scraping, will have to read it a few more times before it sinks in! This is why I like you tube better, I'm a visual learner, more than a book worm. For example setting the cross slide to parralel to the spindle. It took me three attempts of reading through the description before it clicked what he was on about. A demonstration of these practices and It'ld click within seconds. Also must remember that concave setting on the cross slide. Seems a very good idea that. Anyway back to the night light, wish I had a night cap lol. 

I must say I'm a little daunted by all this and the idea that my fairly unskilled hands will be attacking (not the right word, but couldn't think of a better way to put it) the lathes precision. Hopefully to increase it. Reading through the second link you posted has made it quite clear what Norman has said, and the reasons why. So cheers, now where's me night cap


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## Wizard69

The art of scraping in ways is certainly easier to learn watching somebody.   However the two basic concepts, generating flat surfaces and marying parts to those surfaces should be easy to grasp.   That is the basics if you add understanding which surfaces need to be parallel to each other you can fit up just about anything with hand tools and a reference surface.  

I like to say it isn't hard but it is a skill that develops with practice and time.    It wasn't uncommon to take a trainee, throw him a piece of cast iron and have him scrape it flat. 

As for your lathe why do you believe it is worn out?   It certainly could be as it is an old machine but it could also be out of adjustment with gibs loose.   Frankly if you are new to the craft i wouldn't become too obsessed with a lathe rebuild if it is at all serviceable.  Even a new lathe will require you to learn how to adjust it and work with backlash.  

In a nit shell you can start to improve your skills on even a fairly worn out lathe.    Further by using the lathe you will discover which areas are in greater demand of remediation.  


JCSteam said:


> I've just nearly got my head around the one about the scraping, will have to read it a few more times before it sinks in! This is why I like you tube better, I'm a visual learner, more than a book worm. For example setting the cross slide to parralel to the spindle. It took me three attempts of reading through the description before it clicked what he was on about. A demonstration of these practices and It'ld click within seconds. Also must remember that concave setting on the cross slide. Seems a very good idea that. Anyway back to the night light, wish I had a night cap lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I must say I'm a little daunted by all this and the idea that my fairly unskilled hands will be attacking (not the right word, but couldn't think of a better way to put it) the lathes precision. Hopefully to increase it. Reading through the second link you posted has made it quite clear what Norman has said, and the reasons why. So cheers, now where's me night cap


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## TonyM

Quote: Wizard69 - I like to say it isn't hard but it is a skill that develops with practice and time. It wasn't uncommon to take a trainee, throw him a piece of cast iron and have him scrape it flat. Quote:

I remember my first jobs as an apprentice in the mid 60's was to make a cold chisel and a flat scraper. We were then told to take a 4'' length of 1'' round bar and make it square. First chisel it to a square bar. leave one side a chisel finish, one side a rough file finish, one a fine file finish and the last scraped.  Surprising how quickly we learned to take a few short cuts.


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## JCSteam

Thank you for your replies. I have reassembled the lathe. Tightened everything up so it doesn't wobble. It's a bit stiff, but will move without excess force. Put it this way it's not as tight as that jar of jam you can't open lol.

On another note, I've also been to a couple of car boot sales today, and continuing the theme of tools for not a high out lay. Came back with this little lot. Grand total was £23.90. 

It includes a Rothenburge small torch, 4" Vise, 2 tins of gas, two file, (or scraping) handles, a box for some of the more used taper drills and reamers, (will be easier for me to find), a large hammer with a rounded head, and a few clamping fixtures. One which I think will be handy to hold the pipes in line when soldering the Mamod copper pipes to the engine frame.


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## DJP

One looks like the support arm for a dial gauge. You'll need this for your lathe.


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## JCSteam

DJP said:


> One looks like the support arm for a dial gauge. You'll need this for your lathe.



That's why I chucked this in the bag. It's home made and pretty bent. So at the very least will be useful scrap, but might be useful in setting stuff in the chuck??? Though at the moment I've just used the cutting tool, and veniers to measure the gap, rudemetry and not the best way to do it. But the veniers showed that it was 0.001" out. So within 0.002" concentric. I've seen a magnetic dial indicator for around £14 on ebay, so I'll be buying one of those.


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## JCSteam

*Back Gear*

Just so I'm clear on how to use the back gear on my ML4,  sequence should go as thus, (please correct any inaccurate opperation).....

1. Unscrew the grub screw from the three pulleys
2. Rotate the bull gear so that you can see down the grub screw hole to the spindle
3. Rotate spindle until you see the machined flat on the spindle.
4. Screw grub screw into hole to locate the bull gear to spindle. 
5.undo the securing nut on the cam lever, and back gears
6. Bring gears into mesh using the cam lever.
7. Lock the securing nut up.

Am i correct in that the pulley and the first gear of the back gears are as one unit? Press fit or pinned together?


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## Cogsy

Looks to be a clamp for a retort stand in there as well. I've never considered using them as clamps at home but they'd work well. I'll keep an eye out at the next lab clean-out and maybe pick some up.


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## goldstar31

I've just had my attention drawn to the latest Lidl offer for a reciprocating branch saw- for under £30.
OK, it is different to mine  but recently mine has had  smoke coming out of it= and still works.
So move a little and there is correspondence on Madmodder site re the possibility of using it as a scraper.  Sort of putting two and two together, whatever can be achieved, it's a great tool.  I felled a row of over tall leylandii with it.  you get the idea? There is a lot of talk about scraping and it's hard work-- and the proper machines are dead pricey.

I'll leave it for those who are going down that route.

Somewhere else, I'm trying to find a place to brag about my new toy:hDe:

Regards

N


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## JCSteam

Been a busy bee today, despite been let down by a company in Stockton for my chuck key for the Jacobs chuck. I went and bought some M8 threaded rod, large washers and some M8 nuts to fix the lathe to the bench. 

Will post some pics and description of what and why after I've done a drug and alcohol test for a new job I'm going for.


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## goldstar31

JCSteam said:


> Been a busy bee today, despite been let down by a company in Stockton for my chuck key for the Jacobs chuck. I went and bought some M8 threaded rod, large washers and some M8 nuts to fix the lathe to the bench.


 
Try Screwfix for a single key  or Toolstation who sells a 4 ended chuck key. Cheap/Cheapish

Try and buy or reject!


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## JCSteam

I was told that ordinary chuck keys won't fit as the locating hole and the teeth have various off sets. Anyway I'll come back to that one, I complained to their customer services, the attendant didn't even offer to get me one into store for me to collect. Instead opting to send me elsewhere, not good business sense, especially since they don't stock it, though at least they did ring another store to ask if they had one they could transfer for me. 

Also drug alcohol test, what an undignified way to get a job. I passed off course, looking forward to a beer now lol. It's official I've joined the grumpy man in the shed club lol.

On a brighter note I took the trip to screw fix and got me the M8 nuts, washers, and threaded bar to bolt my lathe down. I started with the motor and big 1/4" bracket assembly for it. First measured off the frame to make sure that it was square to the bench. And there was clearance at the back to allow air flow all the way around the motor, this is when I found another oil cup, that I hadn't seen yet. Once square took a black marker pen and coloured in where the holes were, then moved the big lump out the way. I took an 8mm drill bit and drilled through the holes with a hand drill, making sure to keep the hole square to the worktop. Once all four were done a quick wipe down and placed the big lump back over the holes. 

Then I started work cutting the threaded rod to suitable pieces, I forgot to make sure there was a nut on the first bit of bar, to correct the thread after cutting. So after the first one was made threaded a few on the other clean uncut side, and mounted the bar in my drill, reversing the drill and holding the nuts, fed them down the 90cm length easily. Who wants to be twiddling their nuts when there's work to do. 

The studs ware made up with two nuts locked against one another, and a washer, worktop, then big lump, then washer and nut. Once all four were cut in the new (or old) vise they were tapped into place through the drilled holes using the new hammer. Once all was checked for square these were tightened up.


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## JCSteam

With the motor brackets now fixed firmly, (forgot to say was double checked after tightening). My attention turned to fixing the lathe down. Since I wanted to make sure that I could adjust any turning taper in the casting, I set up the lathe same as the motor bracket, though to ensure that the belt ran true a spirit level was used as a straight edge from the pulley on the lay shaft to the pulley on the lathe. The position again marked in permanent marker from the feet and drilled through. The studs were made a little longer this time, to allow a second nut and washer to fit under the feet of the lathe so I could level it up. Then once all four studs were in place I brought the lathe back into the shed to rest on the washers and nuts. Some mucking about with the nuts and a spirit level has got it reasonably close. I don't have an incliometer meter so a bubble is the best I could do, will be dialed in better once I have a dial indicator, and test bar. The lathe been raised also makes for clearing swarf easier, the bed casting has a hole in the middle under the chuck, if it was fixed solid to the bench then retrieving the chips and swarf is going to be a bit of a bugger.

Anyhow the lathe is set up just need a belt now, the power cable has been run down the back under the worktop and will be mounted to an on off button and a big stop button right by my leg so if anything bad happens I can wack it with my leg or right hand. 

Also a piece of wood will be screwed all the way around the back of the bench so that nothing finds a new home down the back of the unit and worktop


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## JCSteam

Also heres the motor and lump up and running

https://youtu.be/wNuXgXxrkCI


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## bazmak

Looking at the slide photos you posted,it would be a waste of time
trying to scrape it.The best you can achieve is to file and emery paper
You should get it to a working standard easily.But dont go overboard
trying to get it to a rolls royce standard.An earlier question was how remove the slotted screws.I would get a good ground close fitting screwdriver to 
the slot and with grips on the screwdriver turn as hard as you can and at the same time tap gentle the top of the screwdriver and use wd40.There are commercial impact screwdrivers available but expensive


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## Cogsy

bazmak said:


> .There are commercial impact screwdrivers available but expensive


 
I've had success with the cheapy impact drivers from auto shops over the years. Last one cost me all of about $8. I only ever replace them when I lose the tips.


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## JCSteam

Thanks Baz, I did see this on eBay. 

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-Ml4-Lathe-Bed-/232470958686?nav=WATCHING

I didn't know whether it would be a waste of money, as the machine would need complete rebuild as your mini lathe you made. I think best to get the machine running learn some skills, when I can afford it buy an ML7 or ML10 lathe, happen to know a gent with an ML10 that may be persuaded to part with it.  Just need to save some cash first, so may as well play around on this and see what can be made. As said above if nothing else I can learn the techniques even if my precision is frustratingly no existent.

Also Al, Baz, I think I posted I'd managed to get them undone? Cleaned out all the junk in the half nuts and reassembled.


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## JCSteam

Well belt from RDG turned up this morning impressed at their service. Free postage and delivered next day 

5minutes later belt fitted to lathe, no adjustment of the motor bracket just sized to length and clipped it on. No time to test it as in the last 15minutes fitted the belt to lathe, cleaned myself up, and ironed my shirt and trousers for another interview with a possible start date to the end of this week. Oh and typed this message


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## JCSteam

I'M MAKING CHIPS**

Well all is well, started messing around with the lathe, switched it on and started to make chips, video of me messing around with it will be posted tonight. But I have to go out now to meet a fellow machinist. So video will have to wait, for now here's a humble effort from me.


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## JCSteam

10 points to who can tell me what I did wrong with this little piece. The evidence is there on the face. 

Or rather what was wrong with my set up?


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## JCSteam

Here's the boring vid promised before, at least it's running and will continue playing with it, if I'm doing owt wrong that you see in the vid let me know, (The jars of oil beneath the motor isn't a good idea I know, neither are sleeves, will try harder next time, at least I had my goggles on) 

https://youtube/4LuntbdjQwU

(How do I embed videos, I've done it once and now I've forgotten)


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## Cogsy

JCSteam said:


> (How do I embed videos, I've done it once and now I've forgotten)


 
Just copy and paste the youtube link, as you've done, but you need the link without youtube split (youtu.be) like this :hhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LuntbdjQwU&feature=youtu.be - note, I've added and extra 'h' to the front of that link so it doesn't display the video.

I skipped through the video as I don't have a lot of time this morning, but I cringed at around 4:30 when you reached over the spinning lathe. This is incredibly dangerous, way more so because you had long, loose sleeves. It would have been very easy to snag one of those spinning bolts and, although it probably wouldn't have killed you, you would have been in a world of hurt and potentially permanently damaged. Please take care not to do that again.

The other thing I noted, although I have never had a Myford, was the tiny cutting depths you were applying. Even on my small Chinese 7X machine I would be taking much more aggressive cuts than that. Not sure if I missed what you were trying to achieve or there was some reason for the light cuts.


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## JCSteam

Thanks Al, long sleeves over a spinning chuck, will address that, it's something I should have thought of at the time and I've critasized myself about on another thread, on the Mamod forums. The small cuts and low speed were because I literally didn't know what to expect so started slow, making sure nothing was going to go bang on me and break. I'll be taking heavier cuts today when I get a chance to play with it. (With rolled up sleeves)


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## goldstar31

Nice to know that the wheels have actually revolved and metal has been turned.

I'm rather glad that you erred on small cuts and put the part securely in the 3 jaw 'for safety'

Again, you might try to place the front edge of your tool to cut a wider 'bite' rather than using the tip which is perhaps screwcutting.

Comment--- I erred exactly with my SiegC4.   One never knows and bits can come out of 'between centres' if care is not taken.

Happy machining

N


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## JCSteam

I'll be starting a steam engine project soon, after a bit more playing around, and getting used to the lathe. 

Thread here:- http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?p=297158#post297158


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## bazmak

I also assumed the light cuts etc were initial fear of the unknown
with a new unfamiliar lathe. As you practice more you will keep
taking deeper cuts and faster feeds etc until you know its capacity
then you can wind back to what suits you.Ever lathe is different
Also concentrate on the tool form and sharpness,it makes a big difference


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## JCSteam

Thanks Baz, I've been going a lot harder with it today, machining brass, had a jagged edge to face off, so took light cuts while I could hear the work hitting the tip, once I heard a continuous sound, and the tip was in constant conmection with the work piece, I fed it in a bit faster, and took deeper cuts. Also the angle of the toolpost has been moves so it's now facing much better, as seen in the other thread. A video will be posted shortly showing my scrap bits and plans for them. I also drilled with the tool post today though that didn't go so well as if mucked up earlier trying to be smart, and jumped forward a step. I've explained it on the other thread so won't go into detail again


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## JCSteam

Well whilst I was turning the shaft to make into a piston I thought I'd measure what taper if any the lathe was turning. I took a few skim cuts the full length, the brass was around 3" long and turned down to 1/4". I measured it at the furthest edge then the one closest to the chuck. It measured a discrepancy of just 0.002" with my verniers. So considering I haven't set it up properly yet with a test bar. I don't think that's too bad


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## bazmak

With only 6mm dia you may be getting flex.centre one end and support
before turning.Even then 2 thou over 3" is not bad


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## JCSteam

I certainly did have flex, initially taking very heavy cuts to thin it down to 1/4" from 3/8", when I was close I measured the tip and the piece closest to the chuck, it was nearly 80thou out. So backed it off and took 5thou cuts to get rid of the taper, took a while using the leadscrew as feed, once I was close and the bit closest to the chuck started cutting again I measured again and was 30thou out, so then backed if off to 2 thou cuts eventually a skim cut to get it to size.


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## bazmak

centre drill and tailstock support is a must for smaller diameters


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## JCSteam

I didn't have the room to fit the tool between the end and a dead centre, I now understand what a half dead Center is used for


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## JCSteam

Well until I get a grinder sorted in busy doing nothing today, since i got sent home, (another story, annoyed) i decided to give a few parts a new coat of paint. Degreased, and polished, then figured out how I was going to paint them. All done with a small tipped brush to allow me more control over where the paint was going.

On the gears especially this helped a lot, a little tricky to hold some of the parts though whilst painting as for example the clamp is painted nearly all around, used the bolt for adjustment screwed the other way in to allow it to be held whilst I got all around it. On all the parts I made sure not to touch the mating surfaces with the brush, where I did slip, the paint was removed immediately so as not to interfere with the fit of the components. Just a bit more running and polishing to do on other parts now and reassemble.*

At least if it looks pretty I might get around to sorting some of the other issues too, whilst these parts are disassembled I'll be making drawings of parts such as the bearings, and gear holders for the change gears. You never know when you might need them. And once back together will be a pain to strip out again to measure so might as well do it now.*


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## bazmak

Looking great.Doing it this way gives immense satisfaction BUT MORE IMPORTANT it gets you familiar with all the working parts and the confidence
to strip down and reassemble. Like the colour


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## JCSteam

Thank Baz, it was a toss up between blue or red as I have surplus of these colours. Red means danger so I decided to go blue as I like blue a lot more.

A little disappointed with the result, the paint was mixed well but after a night in the shed is still tacky, (it was cold last night though, and the shed isn't insulated). 

Question:- I've baked paint on in the oven before, gets rid of the solvents that stop it curing. (The missus is at work so I can get away with it) Can I bake cast iron in the oven on a low heat say 50°c or do I risk cracking a casting? The gears aren't a problem but the tailstock has two steel bolts still in it, and the expansion of the indifferent metals has me worried. 

Am I better to just leave the parts in the house for a day and wait for them to cure at ambient temperature? Save risking my tailstock from possibly cracking?


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## ShopShoe

I don't know exactly how your paint will react if you try to dry it in the oven, but in situations like this I usually have enough other things to clean up that there is time for the paint to air-dry while I attack those other things. If you just can get away with having the parts inside in the warm house that may help you enough.

Good Luck,

--ShopShoe


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## bazmak

If the wife is out then use her hair dryer.Once the castings are warmed
they stay warm for quite a while.No chance of cracking at low temps
I had the same problem a few days ago.Still tacky after 24 hrs but i 
was patient and found something else to do.The 2nd 24 hrs fixed the 
problem.Nice and dry but not fully cured for another 24 hrs


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## JCSteam

Well I can be an impatient fellow, and I've only got a small amount for space to work in, so at the moment the parts for the change gears and the tailstock are filling the space I'd need to strip down something else and paint that. 

The parts were put in the oven on the lowest setting for an hour, I haven't opened the oven up yet to see the results, one because I've got mucky hands and two because I didn't want to induce a cold shock yo the parts, I know I'm probably been over cautious but rather that than bugger up the tailstock. Or crack a gear. 

As for finish in the oven well see in around another hour when I'm back from the shops. A lot of the time when paint is tacky it's the solvents that haven't evaporated that cause them to be tacky, so a warm 50° should have evaporated the solvents. Just got to remember to take them out before the missus finds them making tea lol


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## JCSteam

Only problem is now I can see me wanting to strip the whole thing down to repaint, but I'll settle for now just repainting and refurbishing the accessories like the traveling and fixed steady. Need to make a bolt too for the traveling steady think it's 1/4" BSW but will have to go back over my postings as I've forgotten now.


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## Cogsy

JCSteam said:


> and two because I didn't want to induce a cold shock yo the parts, I know I'm probably been over cautious but rather that than bugger up the tailstock. Or crack a gear.


 
Definitely being a bit overcautious here. To set your mind at ease, my shed gets well over 50 degrees C in summer and parts are regularly 'cold shocked' with water dripping off me (to stay in the shed at these temps for any worthwhile length of time you need to saturate your shirt and stand in front of a fan). At these low temperature variations there is no risk at all of cracking.


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## goldstar31

Probably JC is being a 'windy' and coming from a so called temperate climate we see very few dogs frozen to lampposts or road tar melting on the streets of Darlington. 

What is important, said me postulating as usual, is machining old castings that distort as if by magic. I recall somewhat bitterly of carefully boring an original Westbury mill drill headstock and being 'ever so clever' in boring the brute to 'plus and minus nowt' and then cutting it so that it would clamp on the pillar. The bugger warped and I had to scrape it by hand to fit again. Dear old Ned never squeaked about that in his 'words and music' on its construction. 

And would be Quorn builders, if you get down to the plus 3 thous or less, cutting can release all sorts of stresses. Incidentally, do people actually make Quorns any more? 

Clears throat:hDe:

N


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## JCSteam

All I sometimes wish we had a little more of that sort of wether over here. But knowing us British we'd only moan about the weather lol. 

However I'm pleased to report that no damage was sustained in the drying of the paint.


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## JCSteam

After some messing around today I have got the lathe to turn a steel bar with 1 thou taper over 3" I'd like to get this down further, but will have to wait on the arrival of some measuring tools, a micrometer, and dial indicator. To name but a few. 

I realised today that my tailstock is well out, when I brought it in line to the end of the work and located it in the Centre hole it visable moved the bar, when turned it gave me a 40 thou taper. There was an article about setting up the tailstock, can anyone help please? Or bullet point the steps to set up the tailstock, I got it close before the repaint, but I'd like to do it right and do it once than having to repeat myself again and again in the hope that it may be correct.


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## Blogwitch

You will find that almost every time you slacken off the tailstock, it will move to a different position. This is a common fault with flat bed lathes, there is nothing to hold then in sync with the bed..

I find that the use of one of these really speeds things up and makes the job a lot easier.

http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/Centering-Indicator-Set---Metric-AMA_MT_607_4905TD.html#SID=85


John


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## goldstar31

My 'flat bed' Myford ML10 and Super7B both have brass setting plates at the rear of their tailstocks. 

Could you have accidentally painted over them  on yours?

Not 'accurate' but nigh enough for pit work'

N


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## JCSteam

goldstar31 said:


> My 'flat bed' Myford ML10 and Super7B both have brass setting plates at the rear of their tailstocks.
> 
> Could you have accidentally painted over them  on yours?
> 
> Not 'accurate' but nigh enough for pit work'
> 
> N



I don't think I painted over any brass at the rear of the tailstock, however, I've just remembered the last owner did a modification to the tailstock and set a bolt with a sliding plate to the bottom of it, this can be used to set a reasonable centre, the rest I'll have to do with a dial....

John that looks a real handy piece of kit, and I'll keep that in mind, though I can't spend that much on a single tool at the moment, I'm on a very tight budget, till I get a more permanent job sorted. Definitely a future buy though!


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## JCSteam

Call me daft, but is it possible to mill up a fixing plate for the rear of the tailstock, instead of the cast iron bracket, with the two prongs, an "L" shaped bracket, that has the lower part milled with a dovetail (60° ???), and the two holes drilled one for adjustment, the other for the clamping handle. It would give more of a bite on the ways plus give a straight edge for lining up the tailstock, the gib strip could then be used to just take the play out of it, what steel would be best so as to avoid a harder metal onto the cast iron deforming it, or would it be better to mill it from cast iron??


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## goldstar31

Jon

It's more than 50 years since I played with a 'pre7' Myford and of course, it normally had the poppet removed so that Northumbrian small pipe chanters could be drilled dead parallel over 13". Later, I messed on with a Zyto which was near enough a early ML.

You can or should I say I could align with cutting and comparing the diameters of two disks at the end of a crude test bar but prior to getting a clock gauge you could have a bit of a lark with a child's laser much in the same way as 'Geometer's Microscope on the Lathe series of articles.

Incidentally, what's an NVQ? My late wife got one for playing jazz bari sax -in a former mortuary! 

I suppose that it takes all sorts

N


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## JCSteam

Norm I quite like that idea, I have a laser level that has a magnetic base, it could be set a top of the spindle of the tailstock and trued up showing vertical and horizontal planes at 90° to each other. Position on the spindle would be the key, but would get close enough to start testing with, that along with the ruler between two points I could save myself £60 for now in any case....... 

Definition of NVQ:- The NVQ is a work based qualification which recognises the skills and knowledge a person needs to do a job. The candidate needs to demonstrate and prove their competency in their chosen role or career path

Sound like your late wife could play, if she received an NVQ in saxaphone


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## goldstar31

Of course, like Confucius, you could try it the other way and point the laser through the headstock spindle onto the point of a centre in the tailstock.

It would not solve the inherent fragile tailstock but it is worth a go. With a set of clear plastic graticules and prisms, you could check your alignment of your car as an encore. 

N


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## JCSteam

goldstar31 said:


> Of course, like Confucius, you could try it the other way and point the laser through the headstock spindle onto the point of a centre in the tailstock.
> 
> It would not solve the inherent fragile tailstock but it is worth a go. With a set of clear plastic graticules and prisms, you could check your alignment of your car as an encore.
> 
> N



True, though the car can be left as it just went through the MOT with just two bulbs. Cheapest MOT I've ever had on a car 

I couldn't mount the laser level the other way around, would need a small (ie 3/8") pencil laser, mount it in the end of the spindle and it would have a straight line all the way through the middle of the axle.


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## bazmak

I think a laser would be a waste of time,not accurate enough.You would be better by eye with a loupe. Can you fit push/pull screws for front to back 
you would have to shim for vertical.A fe photos as a reminder what i did 
to my small sieg.Also give us a few photos so we can make comments
If you have flat ways can you fix a central plate to the u,side to keep the setting when you have obtained it


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## goldstar31

bazmak said:


> I think a laser would be a waste of time,not accurate enough.You would be better by eye with a loupe.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> When I DID my City and Guilds some 30+ years ago, we used a laser alignment jig. Alan Robinson- Repair of Vehicle Bodies- Gateshead Tech- Thatcham and all that. Presumably we can do better than that but we were told that our alignment techniques adopted were better than some manufacturers used- on the production line.
> 
> As for machine tools, the laser accuracy obtainable is phenomenal-- and EXPENSIVE.
> 
> For us more lowly mortals, I recall Peter Rawlinson writing in Model Engineer and making peep holes in children's cheap lasers. Somewhere in my filing system, there is a pass to use a computer program by a Mike Trethewey(Sp?) but 'he's gawn alas like a youth too soon'.
> 
> Now I have to settle for a laser on my cheap jack saw bench and my jigsaw in the wood butchery department.
> 
> I rest my case- as it is heavy!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Norm
> 
> 
> 
> Added
> 
> 
> CentreCam but probably wasn't a laser:wall:


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## JCSteam

Hello guys, here's some pictures of the tailstock so you can see what adjustment is there, as mentioned there is an inherent flaw in that there is no mating surface to reference the tailstock. 

The rough sketch I did was for a new plate for the rear, instead of one that's only 4.5cm wide, it could be the same length as the tailstock casting, giving more stability, for even more accuracy, holes drilled and tapped, and fitted with a tie rod adjustment system would be able to hold the setup more accurately in position each time. I will still need a new gib strip for the front, so my thoughts are to make a plate for the back on which alignment can be roughed out, then the gib strip at the front failed in to fully align the tailstock. Does anyone think this will work or am I over complicating it.

Baz the ways are unfortunately not machined in the middle, it's just the rough casting so wouldn't line up properly each time, unless the middle portion was also milled out.


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## goldstar31

It appears to be solvable with a corollary of the 5th Proposition of Euclid. 

It should be noted that I have earlier spoken of this gentleman!

N


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## JCSteam

I be-cleeve you have Norm 

I know there's an article on setting it up somewhere, just havent got the article yet, though impressed at getting my lathe to turn to within a thou, just got to get rid of that last thou. A little more setting up and checking, (without a tailstock for now).


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## bazmak

if you can get to 1 thou then be happy.That last thou is difficult and you cant hold it.On small cheap,old benchlathes dont try to obtain accuracy to Nth degree.You are for ever chasing your tail


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## JCSteam

bazmak said:


> if you can get to 1 thou then be happy.That last thou is difficult and you cant hold it.On small cheap,old benchlathes dont try to obtain accuracy to Nth degree.*You are for ever chasing your tail[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Yep that's the issue I'm trying to sort next!


----------



## JCSteam

An explaination of how to set up a tailstock from Brian Wood.

*Setting the tailstock alignment on an ML 4 lathe*
Ideally the method needs a 1MT test bar, the actual diameter of the plain parallel section is not important other than being a minimum of 3/8 inches. Also needed is a decent three jaw chuck with self aligning jaws, one that can be really trusted for true centreing. And finally, a sensitive DTI mounted on a magnetic stand.
Fit the chuck to the spindle nose and fit the test bar to the tailstock barrel. Slacken all the soleplate screws on the tailstock and the clamp used for gripping the bed
Slide the tailstock so that the test bar enters the chuck as close to the section just beyond the M/T taper that can be reached over the saddle and gently close the chuck jaws to grip the bar. A decent bar is hard enough to resist any marking from the jaws, but neither do they want closing up hard.
The tailstock barrel and headstock spindle should now be correctly aligned with each other. Set the DTI up off the cross slide, offer it up to the exposed section of the bar and zero it. 
It is now a question of tightening the tailstock sole plate screws to avoid straining the alignment just achieved and testing that by easing the chuck jaws to watch for bar flexure on the DTI. Repeat the alignment procedure if necessary until satisfied with the result. Finally, test the effect of the tailstock clamp to check for DTI movement when that is clamped.
Some notional movement may be inevitable with this final test, in which case it might be helpful to note by how much.
For putting on a taper turning offset to the tailstock in future, a short dead centre turned to fit a tool hole in a boring head fitted into the tailstock barrel is probably a lot easier to work with than upsetting the alignment achieved above.
In the absence of a test bar, a fair substitute can be made with either a long Morse taper drill or machine reamer. They should not be slender in cross section; at least 3/8 inch diameter is suggested.
i.	Myford themselves would have used a production line aid to simplify setting up these lathes; it was very probably a hardened bar, perhaps 12 inches or so in length, with Morse tapers on both ends so that socket to socket alignment was made. In use, the headstock would have been aligned to the bed first and then bolted down, followed by the tail stock soleplate setting. Any over height tailstock would have had the top surface of the soleplate scraped to fit; low versions would have been shimmed. 

Brian Wood 2016 

Thanks Brian &#128521;


----------



## JCSteam

I have gone about it another way, and I've a video which demonstrated the frustration in setting it up. In that there are three items that can all influence the angle of the tailstock. 

So I put a piece of rust in the three jaw and mounted up a R/H cutting tool, I set the compound over as far as I could and turned a point onto the bar, this makes a reference point for center hieght, and eliminates if there is wear in the taper of the spindle. 

Once a point was turned the tailstock received a MT1 dead centre. Since all tools will have a taper connection to this part then it seems logical that if there is wear in the tailstock then this must be taken into account. A reamer in the chuck would be a better idea but im not that brave yet, or confident about it's alignment.

The tailstock is brought upto the chuck, as far as it'll go, then the quill extended to meet the other point on the turned bar. 

Horizontally I look good so proceed to make adjustments to the gun slide, making sure everything else is locked up, (be sure if your tightening the gibs the the clamp has opposite force applied. Ie screwing in the adjuster, will mean you have to loosen the clamp, and visa versa.

With a 6inch ruler between centers, the ruler tells you which direction the tailstock gibs need to go. To adjust the gibs make sure the bolt on top is slackened slightly to allow movement, and tightened back up after before proceeding to make adjustment to the other screw. Once you are happy that the tailstock is centred, move the tailstock up the bed, and extend the quill as far as you can, low and behold a different reading, and frustration en sues, what I did was adjust half of the difference of the duller with one screw, then the other half with the second screw. If your lucky when you move it back to the first position you'll be darn close to level, I was using the dovetail on my saddle to determine where I needed to be, and the whole thing was done by eye.

Video will be uploaded to YouTube and posted later today, just to give some insight to the daft design.


----------



## JCSteam

Here's the frustration of the ML4's tailstock

https://youtu.be/RIclNqCD50w


----------



## JCSteam




----------



## JCSteam

Done a few bits today, things that have been bugging me. Firstly the dials would not rotate, on the feed screws for the cross slide and the top slide, so instead of dialing in a dimention I was adding subtracting ECT. Which was a bit of a pain.*

I disassembled it and cleaned the parts before lubricating with light oil, the metal washers were firstly rubbed on some fine wet and dry with oil, then on a stone to remove any sharp edges.*

The parts were reassembled as above all recieving *a light dose of oil to stop corrosion. A small flat blade screw driver was inserted to the rear of the dial so the nut could be done up. The tension on the dial, (or resistance for turning), is adjusted by how tight this nut is. The handle was then screwed back on and the same was done for the cross slide.

Story of the apron and lead screw to follow....


----------



## JCSteam

I had removed the shims that were under the lead screw bracket at the change gear end, by them been there it meant that the alignment of the change gears and the lead screw was been thrown out. Plus it looked ugly and I didn't like it.*

Once all was cleaned back up and the grime removed. The bracket was bolted back in place.*

The disadvantage of this was that now the lead screw didn't line up with the half nuts and was pulling the lead screw 80thou from centre, not good for a smooth gear train.*

I loosened the screws off the saddle which hold the apron in place, cleaned the underside of any muck, and remounted the apron. Just this adjustment halfed the amount of deflection on the lead screw to 40thou. I began to think how I could make this better, and I thought to shim one side of the apron to tilt it into the lead screw. I started with one of the shims removed from the bracket. This was 16thou. By mounting this to the outer edge it tilted the apron at the bottom into the lathe. This removed all of the deflection on the lead screw. But the lead screw jammed and was stiff to turn.*

Next came good old beer can. Beer cans are made of 5thou thick metal and make for a great packing material. Two strips were cut. And mounted under the edge as before. This gave a deflection of just 15thou, but the leadscrews was free to turn when the half nuts were engaged.*

You can just see the two 5mm strips of beer can under that saddle. The deflection now reads 15thou, but since it's so smooth the length of the bed I'll leave it alone.

It did however present another problem in that the gaurd for the lead screw now touched the rack, so that was removed and the offending edges that touched filed off.*


----------



## JCSteam

I also tried a rudemetary way of aligning the tailstock. Using one of the largest taper drills i have, (think it's 7/8") mounted in the tailstock. The quill was extended out as far as I could and the gib adjusters loosened off. The drill was fed as far into the chuck as I could get it, and the jaws nipped up, not locked tight just nipped up. Then the gib was brought to mate with the ways and tightened, the clamp at the rear was then loosely tightened. Just enough to give some pressure to the rear. The adjusters were then tightened up making sure the whole setup wasn't moving, and locked into place. I've yet to check it's alignment, but the quill by eye looks to be perfectly parralel to the ways. The worn gib strip is also sitting nice and flat against the ways, whereas before it was slightly tilted.


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## goldstar31

I've been looking at your feed screw dials and wonder whether the engraved '80' was the limit-- and didn't go further to say 100 or 125?

If it is 80, it's wrong because there is no commercial thread which will give 80 divisions.  The nearest, correct me if I'm wrong, is 12 which approximately 83.5 divisions- and not 80.

Ho Ho?


Norm


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## JCSteam

Nope your not wrong Norm, the thread is 12TPI, which doesn't equate to a 1thou increments in practice. I was already made aware of this when I bought the machine. 

It will never be accurate to tenths of thou, as there is inaccuracy built into the machine. It even tells you so in the manual that came with the machine new, which means that one full turn of the handle =0.0833 of an inch. As the dials are indexed to 80 divisions, then each division is actually 0.001041" which when taking a cut means that 0.002082" is removed. Not a terrible problem but once aware of it, it can be compensated for.

I plan to fit a DRO on the cross slide for this purpose. Just a simple vernier gauge and some bracketry that will allow quick removal if needed. 

Jon


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## JCSteam

I've seen the offerings of RDG tools for small oilers which would fit my lathe and cost less than £2 each.

I thought about buying them and then thought I've got some brass and Ali I might as well make some, I'm wondering what size the hole needs to be at the bottom for the oil to drip into the bearing surfaces. Or would a piece of cotton wool (the type for knitting) work as a wick to allow a drip fed oil system? I have four large ones to make for the headstock and layshaft, and three smaller ones for the lead screw and saddle handle. These will be simple cup oilers not the fancy tap ones.

Thoughts please??*


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## goldstar31

You should specify the wickers for basket cases . 

woohoo1

N



.


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## Blogwitch

Jon,

Check and then double check the size of hole that the lubricator will go into if you are going to make your own.. 
On early machines with a small oil cup I think it was 2BA and on later with the sight glass, 1/8 BSP.

Whatever wick or hole size you use, make sure that the wick is a fairly tight fit as the head is a total loss oil system, and if things are too loose, the oil will be gone in no time, you need to make the oil last at least a couple of hours.

John


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## bazmak

I agree with what you say John however my reasoning would be thus
If the small oil cup is filled say daily prior to lathe use then its not relevant
how long it takes to lose the oil.Once its gone then then the moving parts are lubricated and will stay thus for the rest of the day.Then repeat the following day.I regularly used a guillotine with a piped hand pump system.First thing every morning 2 pumps and that was it till the next day.Same with the lathe
that small cup will be enough for one day


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## goldstar31

The history of the ML series of lathes suggests that Myford was no different than all the many lathe sellers in the 1930's and who obviously had to produce lathes- at a price. We know from publications from highly authorative writers like Sparey that one of the dominant features in his Amateurs Lathe book that much concerns making new spindles.  Again we know that one way of taking up wear was to remove the shims on single clamped cast iron headstocks - and note the adverts for brazed up headstocks! Things improved somewhat with the introduction of phosphor bronze bearings but the records in Model Engineer show that Cleeve replaced the bearings on his ML4 - on an Annual Basis! He and many others noted that Myford had changed the bearings after the war to available lead indium bearings from Glacier-- along with hardened spindles that-- err, couldn't be machines easily.  They were lubricated not by silly little oilers that were a relict of penny farthing push  bikes but by bloody big sight glass drip feeders. They are still being supplied by RDG amongst others.  The ML7 was a light year improvement  but there were more available and better ball races which were even imported at vast risk in the bellies of Mosquito bombers. I recall that such steel even in the 1960's that things were so short that wheel bearings were made with half cages and attempts were made to utilise plastics.  I knocked wheel bearings out and replaced them  on an annual basis on my tuned Mini Cooper! The Myford Super 7 lathe  came with a relatively massive bronze front bearing and spindle lubricated with NUTO 32 oil which was only SAE32 hydraulic oil.  The remaining spindle bearings were  opposed ball races and lubricated with SAE 30 motor oil.

But and I have done my homework carefully as possible, the 7" swing Myford lathe is doing no more than what the earlier machines attempted- and as I have said- were inadequate for the tasks  which remain unchanged.

Today, Myford as we knew it is no more. Whatever the full reasons were for its demise, it cannot compete with other competitors. Today people are deluding themselves in failing to accept just how overwhelming today's completion is.

As far as I am concerned, history teaches many things but is best experienced from the comfort of one's arm chair. 

It in a workshop?  Get real!


Norm


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## JCSteam

Two interesting thoughts on the type of oiler, drip fed verses all in one, what I have been doing up until press is filling the cups before starting, and then letting the oil disappear, I have been topping them up after around an hour or so. I believe I'm over oiling them so have been looking for alternative cups. Which might not be so difficult to make but also provide a drip fed system. 

I came across a video of a cup with a tube running up the middle to the top of the oil cup. Instead of a wick as most would have, it uses an uncoated steel wire which provides a drip of oil every minute or so. 

As for size of hole. There are several sizes, headstock is a plain hole, 1/4" no thread. The other oilers on the lead screw ECT have a small 3/16" hole, then a tapered edge, the lay shaft having a threaded hole that's not been measured yet.

Jon


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## Blogwitch

Do not worry about over oiling.
My machines drip oil all over the place, it is the machine that does the cutting, not the oil (or discoloured paintwork).
£20 worth of oil a year is less expensive than hundreds of pounds of machine wear.

John


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## fcheslop

If the wall behind the lathe and the bench below it isnt splattered with oil you arnt using enough
In one of the toolrooms of a factory there used to be a shaping machine (remember those) the oilers were simple open pot type with a spring steel pin one end was tapered to adjust oil flow the other end was triangular and sat inside the pot with a push fit and you simply pulled it up for more oil pushed it in for less .Guess it was an ell cheapo way of making adjustable oilers. I think Senfits Poppin uses the same idea the drawings are on the John Tom site
cheers


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## JCSteam

Thanks John, and Frazer, like I said apart from a bit of mess, over oiling won't damage the lathe. Even just making larger reservoir cups with a lid will be an improvement. RDG sell little oil cups with a lid that will be suitable but I fancy making them, (Just a start of a long journey repairing and doing up the lathe). I'll check out the website and see what I find.


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## JCSteam

Frazer I recently saw a shaper at a guys that I went to see last week. Could be very handy for certain tooling.


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## fcheslop

They are a handy bit of kit if a little slow
Although for me I simply dont need  one as once the Rider is finished I dont think I will ever build anything that merits having one . Im returning back to my  boat building steam and maybe a Stirling engined one .Then I will have covered land sea and air
cheers


----------



## goldstar31

Jon

I see Malcolm Butler in Ashington is advertising a early ML for spares for £50 on HomeWorkshop. co uk site.

Cheers

N


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## JCSteam

Well I made a start on some oil cups for the headstock today, that's after I'd adjusted the grubscrews on the headstock, (butt clenching after all the warnings, but following Norms post above, I felt I may have a back up if things went belly up). 

With the three jaw chuck mounted I started to turn brass, but the tools had too much top rake, had two dig ins, and then it flew out the chuck, so abandoned brass for now. While turning the brass I had heard clunks, and the finish wasn't brilliant, like the work was jumping. I knew the brass was in the chuck tight, and wasn't taking heavy cuts. I decided it was time to look at what was causing the knock.

I held the 3 jaw with both hands firm and lifted upward, CLUNK, tried again same result. I got a flat bladed screw driver and tentatively went to screw the grub screws that adjust the tension. They were loose, so I nipped them up to just passed where they started to grip, I've now noted their position so will become part of my daily start up procedure of the lathe, when oiling the pots, checking the position  of the screws. 

Anyhow Aluminium what a lovely material to machine, like cutting through butter. Will post some pics tomorrow when I've finished the oil pots for the headstock, nice shiny Ali.


----------



## goldstar31

Interesting! I was having a spot of deja-vu, and thought that it was about time that Jon got around to some proper tool grinding  and scribbled a note about a crap piece of junk in the form of Malbenbut's advert. 

With a £20 or so for a cheap 6" double ended grinder  and a few bits of studding and MBB's box of spare Myford  parts, it would be possible to knock up and rather versatile tool and cutter grinder- not really unlike the Stent which I have. Apart from the exotica which can also be done, one could conceivably make  'flat top tools' suitable for brass

And then I noted that it was only 4AM-- and went back to bed. 

Interesting - perhaps?

N


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## JCSteam

I'll get around to the grinder, and some HSS blanks.

I actually thought that the sales ad yould written about was to do with spares for the lathe, saddle top slide compound ect. There in a lot better Nick on his machine than mine. 

We're you meaning to build a grinder from the lathe parts?


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## fcheslop

Jon, for brass you only need to grind side and face no top rake required and I use the same for alloy 
cheers


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## goldstar31

JCSteam said:


> Were you meaning to build a grinder from the lathe parts?


 
Why not? Or if you wanted, you could change this to being a dividing head:hDe:

Before rushing off to pen yet another question, you should check what was written. 

If you stop and think it is surprising what happens. My bits from my Quorn fit the Kennet and the bits from one of my dividing heads fits the mill and also goes onto the Clarkson and All the tapers fit lathes and mills and tool and cutter grinders. And , of course, the 'new' Sieg S4 lathe takes the vertical slide which was a left over from my Zyto which probably was an inferior to the ML4-- and so ad infinitum .

Always remember that the greatest unexplored part of this world is generally to be found under one's hat.

Cheers and that


Norm


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## JCSteam

fcheslop said:


> Jon, for brass you only need to grind side and face no top rake required and I use the same for alloy
> cheers



Yes I know, the tool really didn't have much top rake on it, just a quick touch of the grinder. 

The issue was the headstock bearings, causing the spindle to jump, this put the tool below center hieght, which lead to the brass walking up the tool, leading to the dig in.

After I'd tightened the grub screws and the movement was gone from the spindle the work turned lovely. In Ali anyway, thought I'd give up on brass for the day.


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## JCSteam

Norm interesting thoughts, (as always), if you just spelled it out for me sometimes would be a lot easier. I like the idea of a dividing head, and vertical slide. Wouldn't need too much adaption would it


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## fcheslop

Well those bearings must be like an a+++se in a pot hmmm


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## JCSteam

I'll let you have a look over it when you come around. Once I'd tightened the grubs up there was no movement of the spindle. Worried at how they had come loose enough for them to cause so much movement.


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## goldstar31

Please refrain from 'Shouting'


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## fcheslop

shouting whos shouting eh though he was writing big so older members like me could read it
Lets try and get this sorted asap or its just going to become frustrating to say the least
Next week m-machine so I will have a couple of hours spare re mail youre tel no 
cheers


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## JCSteam

Sorry I had written the response and it looked tiny writing so I had enlarged it a little. Obviously too much. Sorry!

I've sent you my number in a previous message, I'll get the measurements you asked for over to you today. After I finish work


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## goldstar31

JCSteam said:


> Norm interesting thoughts, (as always), if you just spelled it out for me sometimes would be a lot easier. I like the idea of a dividing head, and vertical slide. Wouldn't need too much adaption would it


 
As far as I can see it, one simply follows someone like Geo Thomas in his 'Workshop Techniques' to have adapt a casting with a 65 tooth bullwheel to do more than the simple 5 and 13. Mine has the two wormwheels a la GHT but that's GHT! You NEED the book.  
As for vertical slides from top slides, it is simply adding a block of square metal and getting a vertical of 90 degrees.


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## fcheslop

Jon, the reason the bearings became loose is probably the peelable shims are missing at least two people have mentioned it as the reason for the cracking problem
Measure the gap with feeler gauges and either leave them in or sort a shim out it may save some heartache later on. Put simply the adjusting screw has nowt to nip down on and comes loose or some heavy handed so and so over tightens shortly followed by the infamous cracked headstock 
Just my two penneth take it or leave it
cheers


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## goldstar31

fcheslop said:


> Jon, the reason the bearings became loose is probably the peelable shims are missing at least two people have mentioned it as the reason for the cracking problem
> Measure the gap with feeler gauges and either leave them in or sort a shim out it may save some heartache later on. Put simply the adjusting screw has nowt to nip down on and comes loose or some heavy handed so and so over tightens shortly followed by the infamous cracked headstock
> Just my two penneth take it or leave it
> cheers


 
Fraser might be right and so might I ! Frankly, Jon has failed to - yet again- to give people who may be able to help sufficient information about HIS lathe.
If the lathe is an older version, it will have a single clamp to each journalwhereas, if it is more recent( Errr, uhmm) it will have two bolts to hold down each of the split bearings. or a single bearing at each journal

If there is wear, and Fraser's single bolt arrangement is found, the only safe way to take up the wear is by fitting a slightly thicker spindle and the other obvious result might be 'Crack' and end the story!
Alternatively, if my thoughts are correct, the bearings can either be replaced or built up from reticulated tin salvaged from scrap crankshafts for one cheap way.

Frankly, I'm getting weary of the possibility of upsetting other helpful people because of someone else's refusal to give proper information.

I'm ready to simply ignore the problem and tackle more rewarding challenges.

Norm


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## JCSteam

First attempt at making an oil cup, hasn't gone so well, removed 7thou too much from the end that goes into the headstock so it's a loose fit. Not good! Will try again, though this one has at least sorted out what steps I need to take and what order, so the next two will be quicker. 

Could have sworn I'd taken more photos, steps I took were to face off the large end of the blank, the turn the outside so I had a good finish, thi was then spot drilled, then drilled with a 7mm bit then stepped upto the large taper drill you can see in the photo bellow. This has a tapered point to it and left a nice changer to the edge no need to bore it. 

The blank was then turned and trued up in the 3jaw, needed packing one side to run concentric with what I had turned on the outside, I stepped the edges turning the nub on the end to what i thought was final diameter, and then proceeded to turn a cone on the end towards the nub. This was then drilled with a 1mm drill bit.


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## JCSteam

Sorry you feel that way Norm.


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## JCSteam

Guys I'm sorry for been thick, (it's become apparent to me recently), when you were all on about peelable shims missing, I thought you were meaning that the shims should have been fitted between the bearings, and the casting. Having had some conference with Frazer, I think I'm now on the same page as the rest of you, (I'm a visual learner, than a written word learner). 

So these peelable shims should be fitted at the front of the lathe, in the void between the bolt that clamps the casting down. Both at the chuck and change gear end. 

To answer the questions yes the peelable shims are missing, the lathe is the older type with just one bolt per bearing to tighten them. Yes this is an early lathe headstock that can go crack and never be the same again. 

Again sorry for been slow on the uptake. Shims will be made up to fit into the void


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## Blogwitch

Jon,

I too am feeling the way Norm is, very little info supplied.

To me you are trying to run before you can walk.

Your first issue HAS TO BE the headstock, but because you haven't supplied a single photo taken from above, so we just can't categorize or identify it correctly.. If you don't get the headstock sorted first, you are just pi**ing against the wind with everything else you are trying.

I could get you many photos of what it should look like and how I fixed things as it is still easily available to me, but without help from yourself, why should I bother?

John


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## JCSteam

Sorry everyone! 

I thought I'd suppied as much info as I could but it seems I'm mistaken. 

These photos have all been posted to the thread, if you needed something more specific, or from a different angle it would have been nice to be asked such. 

Yes I'm a beginner, which comes with it a lack of understanding, both with terminology and with the layout and what info is needed to gauge a true diagnosis of the problems that I have/haven't got with my lathe. 

It's worth pointing out I feel at this time I'm struggling financially, having been through 2jobs already this year, and now been paid minimum, having my monthly income decrease by a third. I am short on time, having 5 kids to look after over the weekends, and a two year old full time. All this means I'm left with a basic set up at best, a kitchen base unit, and worktop that I got from freegal, a rickety shed I've repaired best I can and levelled on recycled slate roofing. Using an electric extension lead to provide power to the shed. 

It can be deduced that experience I value greatly, means to rectify issues are slim. Time to work in the shed sometime none existant!

If you can't bear with me then I probably shouldn't be here. 

All these photos below have been posted on this thread.


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## JCSteam

Please forgive me if I'm out of line, but while turning the oil pot, I turned it round in the chuck and it was running out of concentric, I packed one of the jaws with a piece of Pepsi can and got it running true, to machine the lower part of the pot. No one told me I should do it that way, I know it isn't correct, but it's a fix until I have the means to try and true the run out of the chuck up properly. 

The worn saddle was causing issues because small bits of brass and steel chips, were getting underneath the saddle, and causing it jam up, or become stiff when in use. Again a Pepsi can cut to the width of the bed, and a screw put into the middle of the bed, in the hole for fastening the traveling steady, I have an improvised chip tray that means that most of the chips end up away from the ways. Yes the correct way would be to skim bed and saddle, and shim the saddle, do I have means or money to do that no! 

I am improvising and finding solutions to what i can within my means. They aren't the correct way to achieve a lathe that's pin point accurate, but this lathe is older than my dad by half my age. Do i expect it to be precision? Nope not really!

Anyhow I'm off to play with a traction engine at the weekend, it may renew my enthusiasm!


----------



## bazmak

Carry on as you are your doing fine. Its not your lack of knowledge/experience/
 or finances are niggling people its just the lack of information.Everybody will bend over backwards with help/advice but give us plenty of photos and ask questions no matter how daft. Regards Barry


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## fcheslop

Jon, Im sure as a collective you will get the help and information you need.
The frustration I feel is coming from the fact we are just going round in circles and working a wee bit blind at the moment
From my limited experience its a matter of approaching the job in a methodical method not jumping from pillar to post , Firstly take a deep breath and start again with the basics .
I know this hobby is  at times expensive exercise and like others here I started with very little as I never had more than a few pennies to scratch my a^^se so youre not alone in that respect,
Although its now common to see shops full of kit at the end of the day what they produce may not be that much different from what canbe made in a basic shop yes it will take longer with more challenges but it still canbe done, 
Concerning making the oil pots like any part ask a bunch of machinist how to do summit and you will get as many different answers as there is machinists amateur or otherwise
I would have simply turned a pin to fit the drilled hole glued the part on then machined the outside shape


----------



## goldstar31

Frankly, I have to agree with Frazer about jumping from pillar to post and I would continue with the disbelief in you wanting to spend time and effort on what could only be described as lunacy in wanting to continue to be part of the legion of lost causes and make oil cups when your efforts - to work properly. should be channelled into getting your lathe  to do something. There are multitudes of 'oilers' on scrap bikes and cars as well as old electric motors. I've got a half horse motor which plugs away at 2880 rpm on my old £100 Clarkson and I think that I oiled it when I got it- but maybe, I forgot! I've got a car screaming for a service. It's probably a worth a damned sight more than all my workshop but it has only done less than 10,000 miles since new and who cares if the lights sort of flash like Blackpool Illuminations? There are a thousand reasons for my car to stop but the oil smells all right and it is up to the dip stick marker- I think.

As for your old Myford, I would make sure that before I go off into the Museum of White Elephants, whether my lathe spindle is held properly or is wandering about like some lost soul. It's run a hell of a lot of revolutions since heaven knows when but we know or assume that parts of your lathe which have done far less mileage are in need of TLC or knackered in old parlance. 

I'd be scratching what is left of my white hairs on how to cure a possible worn spindle or worn bearings or BOTH.

I 've got several books which are nearly as ancient as your lathe and me that describe how the author made a -wait for it laddie, stand freezing- a new oversize lathe mandrel. 

When that little lot came part of my life, I had the spindle chromed and ground. 

I might have married a close relative to the real Alice in Wonderland but neither of us believed a word of it about fairies or Mad Hatters. You have to face the real cruel world but people are here to help you-- but only if you help yourself.

Lecture over- face the problem or go down whimpering.

N


----------



## JCSteam

Well I had a friend come around today to look over the lathe and check wear.
The bearings in the headstock of mine is simply a bronze split bearing turned OD and ID to fit the spindle and the headstock casting. This is a later modification by a previous owner, as the casting will have had to be bored out to fit this type of bearing. There is a slot along it's length of around 2mm which is lined up with the split of the casting. The bolts tighten down on the casting an thus the bearings and close the bearing around the spindle, the grubscrews used to put pressure on the top of the bearing giving even pressure. The spindle was measured too and was 1thou less than an inch all the way around. Which at least means the spindle isn't bent, or worn oval. Reassembled, the play was then adjusted out. The bearings are worn and will need replacement when funds allow, but are serviceable at the minute.

The gibs have been tightened to take out any play, though new ones could do with making in the future.
The major issue found is the tailstock, the bore is worn, giving 8thou play of movement. Which means that drilling a hole would be a precarious operation, this can be reduced by nipping the spindle lock, but still doesn't irradicate the movement, just lessens it. I've had the fix explained to me, so I'll try it one day with some assistance. The end is bored to take a sleeve, then the sleeve turned to fit the spindle and the new bore in the tailstock.

It's not great but any drilled holes I'll need to remember to nip the spindle lock on a little to take the play out. Until it's sorted that is. Funds at the minute are limited, so may be some months before I can fix all the issues, but it is now levelled and dailed in as accurately as possible, to within a thou, even on the tailstock.
This was done with a test bar between centers and a dial indicator. The test bar at one point been within 1 micron accuracy, a little more these days after a lot of use and years. After all my frustration trying different methods two adjustments and it was within 1thou. The designer of the tailstock been blasted by my Frazer for its naff design, and lack of register to bed.
A big Thank You to Frazer*for taking the time out his day to come and tune my lathe up and identify what is good and what isnt, and where money needs spending.

As it stands it'll make occilators happily all day long. Something more sophisticated or with more precision *needing less than 1thou, then I might struggle due to some of the issues on the lathe. But overall for a lathe from the 40's which has seen use by amateurs, and now another one. It will suffice till the callings of larger more refined engines call.*

I'd like to say thank you to all those that have posted in this thread willing to offer me advice, and help, I'm sorry if updates haven't been forthcoming. Here's to making occilators


----------



## ShopShoe

JCSteam,

I'm sorry that your tailstock is so bad, but as you said you now know how to work around it.

I would like to suggest (or re-suggest, as the case may be) that in your learning and improving process it might be time to look more at boring bars as they can help you tremendously in making good, round, straight holes.

Keep posting, I'm following.

Good Luck,

--ShopShoe


----------



## JCSteam

Thanks Shoe shop, I'll post a picture when I get home of the voting bars I have, most are round and not mounted to the tool post, some are. Some are for internal thread cutting. 

I will get there eventually, I'm off to make shims up from brass and tin can today. Now i have a measurement of the bearing gap needed. Bought two feeler gauges for less than £6 so I could measure it.


----------



## Blogwitch

Use soda cans for your shims for rough setting and put baco foil (0.001") in a sandwich for fine tuning.

John


----------



## goldstar31

Myford's used to sell laminated shims which were multiples of 2 thous and stuck together with probably 'hot glue'.

The holes and shapes were probably punched out using the way that locomotive leaf springs in steel strip or Tufnol were prepared.

It's a great way to start over thick and remove the shims with a penknife or Stanley knife.


It's merely a development of what John has wisely suggested earlier.

The old blacksmith's used to call the tools 'Bob  and Aunty'. I'll leave it there.

Norm


----------



## fcheslop

Hi Jon, glad I was of some help
To put the matter to bed 
as expected the bed does has a wee bit of wear and tear but lets be honest you aint going to find a 40+ year old machine without a bit of wear
The tailstock does indeed need a wee bit of work and I think like others who have been around old machines for most of our lives we expect such things and John covered in great detail how to carry out this fix on his old Atlas lathe from memory
The headstock mandrel was in surprisingly good condition although the bearings have a small amount of oval as expected
Despite the machine looks with the extra tapped holes here and sundry I was very surprised by the machine overall condition
Again I was surprised how well it measured up for its age. I know it could do with more machining than I can do due to the lack of kit but I dont see why with a bit of care it wont produce decent parts for you 
So now its time for you to begin that rather large learning curve and Im sure as a collective people will help .
Remember baby steps first ,watch and learn its all part of the fun as is the wall of shame were the dead parts and muck up live.Despite what the experts say Im sure they all have that why did I do that moment I know I have
Well time I disappeared back into my shell
kind regards


----------



## goldstar31

If you recall I sent you quite a bit of information and following Frasers's examination, you could go for something simple but very useful on which to base further projects. 

'Cleeve' in his excellent series suggested how to make things out of bits of steel, joined with bolts . I made up a 4 way turret which only requires 3 bits of square steel and a rear tool post which will also hold items -in the absence of a milling machine. Both items can be done on a lathe only.  A bit of drilling and tapping but using metric fasteners instead of dearer imperial stuff.

Then you could make a swing tool holder to do lots more than the boring for which the design was designed.
I've got one and if I can get 'round tuit' I have the drawings and bits for the retracting Screwcutting version. Again, just blocks and no mill required. 

Comments please on a £5 note, would be welcomed as I am an impoverished old pensioner:hDe:

Norm


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## fcheslop

Hey Norm at least youve got a pension Iv got nowt so give the donations to me as Im in need .Strange me and money have always been strangers our lass recons its made round to go round but she dont spend hers 
Its already fitted with a 4 way post so thats one thing Jon wont need to worry about although today the 4 way post is part of history I still like them that is until I knock my hand on a sharp tool I much prefered the Lammas 3 way post
kind regard
FraZer  no idea why the Z rather than the S although the S maybe lowlands


----------



## JCSteam

Thanks all. Today I made this video. They say a picture paints a thousand words, so I guess a video reveals far more. 

This is part one, part two to follow, (maybe a few hours time with my connection). Hopefully it should show what has/hasn't been done and what I intend to do going forward.

https://youtu.be/aH6WqtDHq5k


----------



## JCSteam

fcheslop said:


> Hey Norm at least youve got a pension Iv got nowt so give the donations to me as Im in need



Frazer, I'm sure you had a payment off me a while ago when  you fixed some Mamod wheels for me and got them to run better than any I've seen. Hoped you enjoyed that tipple. It was certainly more than any £5 bob note.


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## fcheslop

I remember that wee tipple well.
You must remember that mamods have nothing to do with models they are simply toys and they burn youre fingers and set fire to carpets or is that just my misspent youth 
As Iv said its time for me to go back into my shell and sign off but wish you well with youre endeavours and you know where to find me should you need to
kind regards
frazer


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## JCSteam

goldstar31 said:


> If you recall I sent you quite a bit of information and following Frasers's examination, you could go for something simple but very useful on which to base further projects.
> 
> Comments please on a £5 note, would be welcomed as I am an impoverished old pensioner:hDe:
> 
> Norm



 I do recall the info you sent me, I need to get through that. It was a lot to read through considering I'm not much of a big reader. 

Norm next time I'll sort you a fiver, though I think at the moment I want to make my first steam engine. Just a little occilator, I've already showed Frazer my plans, so the rest of you may have to wait and see.


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## goldstar31

Pity about the pension thing- having regretted and regretted retiring 32 years ago, I should have retired far earlier!

Baz did a Lammas thing a few months ago and here.  It was in the ChrisHeapy website but I can't find the site now. 

Apologies about the spelling of Frazer. When I had a Bhutt and Bhein north of the Highland Line, my neighbour came from 'the fishin' at Frazerburgh. Reminds me, I have a fish supper in Oban shortly. 

Slange

Norm


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## Blogwitch

Chris Heapy site

http://nsa.kpu-m.ac.jp/gijutu/kousaku/easyweb.easynet.co.uk/chrish/projects.htm


John


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## JCSteam

Thanks for the link, off for a browse.


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## goldstar31

Thanks John. I'm sure that Jon and a lot of others will appreciate the information therein.

I think that Heapy's mandrel hand(r)el in metric for my new lathe will be worth the doing of.  I don't really fancy the abject terror of the Sieg's so called lowest speed.

Cheers----Gawn Orff Audit-ting a Counts

Norm

PS My hilarity stems from someone last eve,  winding me up by claiming that I look like some even more aged Royal git.- sorry- personage!


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## fcheslop

Hi Jon,, good luck with the little wobbler
So Norms doing an Ebeneezer and counting his sovereigns and crowns whilst poor we Bob is hand cranking the Sieg to keep warm
Cheers


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## goldstar31

Thinking of the gaffes of my more famous look a like

'So   what you do with your little wobblers in those little wooden sheds?'

:wall:

N


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## JCSteam

Get them working of course, and shaking their thing.

https://youtu.be/b456Wre2hpk


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## JCSteam

Part 2 of the video update

https://youtu.be/URI1968J2k0


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