# Gas Engine Plans from Germany



## BronxFigs (May 10, 2013)

Looking for the drawings/construction article for: 

Hubert Schilling V-2 model, air-cooled, gas engine.

Also,  the Hubert Shilling, single-cylinder air-cooled, gas engine

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I have written to a builder of the V-2, and I was told that VTH-Verlag sold the plans online.  I cannot find them, and I can't read/speak German.  I'm lost....HELP!

Willing to trade drawings that I have for drafts of these engines.  

Thanks for any help.


Frank


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## schilpr (May 10, 2013)

Try this page http://shop.vth.de/bauplane-frasteile.html?cat=14

Don't know exactly what you are looking for but I like this one 
http://shop.vth.de/bauplane-frasteile/6-zylinder-reihenmotor.html

Is this it? http://shop.vth.de/bauplane-frasteile/2-zylinder-v-dampfmaschine.html

Or this one: http://shop.vth.de/bauplane-frasteile/20-ccm-v-motor.html

Another http://shop.vth.de/bauplane-frasteile/2-zylinder-v-motor.html

and here http://shop.vth.de/bauplane-frasteile/v2-50.html


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## DPowell (May 10, 2013)

If that one doesn't pan out, try this;

http://www.cad-jung-shop.de/epages/62479729.sf/en_GB/ObjectPath=/Shops/62479729/Categories/Bauplane

Doug


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## BronxFigs (May 10, 2013)

schilpr and DPowell...YES!!!!!  I hit pay dirt!  

Thank you... thank you.... thank you.....

*schilpr:*  Your link that starts with the word "another" (the 5th link listed).....has the engine designed by H. Schilling.  I could not find this engine when I looked.  The only German I know comes from watching old WW11 movies..."The Guns of Navarone"...and all I really know is "schnell"...hardly enough words to look for some engine drawings. Now, with your help my  search is over.

However, There's some very interesting designs on that other link provided by *DPowell* also.

I got some shopping and ordering to do.

Thanks for the very quick answers and your considerations.  Much appreciated.

Frank


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## /// (May 10, 2013)

BronxFigs said:


> .... and I can't read/speak German.  I'm lost....HELP!



Google does a pretty good job of translating whole pages.
Here is the translated version of the 'Another' page, Schilpr's 5th link:
http://translate.google.com.au/tran...de/bauplane-frasteile/2-zylinder-v-motor.html


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## BronxFigs (May 11, 2013)

/// Simon:

Had no idea that the whole page could be translated.  Thanks.  I noticed the the reviews for the drawings.  Not rated too highly.  Too bad some essential parts are missing from the drawings like cam timing, and piston specs.  How does a company sell incomplete plans?  How do I machine the missing pieces?  

Very appreciative that you posted this information.  

Frank


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## aonemarine (May 11, 2013)

Personally, I enjoy trying to read plans in different languages. The missing parts shouldnt be hard to figure out, but as said, they should have been included.


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## BronxFigs (May 11, 2013)

I tried ordering, or attempted to order from the VTH-Verlag site, and clicked on the Google translation.  Up to this point, all was fine.  Then I clicked on the shopping cart to start ordering, and....back to the German again.  I had no idea how to get a translated ordering page, or how to change my order.  I could understand nothing.  So...I have to ask a friend for some help.  There might be a way around this, but I can barely use a computer.

I'll get those plans, one way, or another.

Frank


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## schilpr (May 11, 2013)

Frank, let me know if you need help, translation or anything else. 

I have an address in the Netherlands in case they don't ship to your location.


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## BronxFigs (May 12, 2013)

schilpr:

Just got out of bed this morning, - ( 7:22 AM NYC time) - and just read your generous offer.  This very morning, a little later on, I will be visiting a friend who has a wife that can read German, and I will ask her to order all the plans for me.  I *will* get those plans.

Thanks for all your help.  I will probably need the forum members to help me figure out how to machine the missing parts for this V-2 engine.  I know the plans are incomplete, but it's been built, so, it can be done.

Best regards,


Frank


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## BronxFigs (May 12, 2013)

The saga continues.  Just came back after driving 80 miles to get a translation, and to order the Schilling plans.  To my disgust, I found out the they don't mail to the USA....  

So now I know why schilpr included his last sentence in post #9.  

Plans can't be shipped to the USA?????  I mean, really...give me a break.

Frank


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## Art K (May 12, 2013)

Frank,
Look at post #9 maybe you can mail them to schilpr, and he can send them on?
Art


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## BronxFigs (May 13, 2013)

Thanks to Art K... and for schlpr's generous offer to help.

I do have an alternative.  I have friends who will be in Zurich in early July.  They will place an order these V-2 drafts, and some other plans, for me, and have them mailed to their Zurich address.  They will bring  back the drawings when they return to The States.  So, _eventually,_ I will get these plans.  

I sure hope that good things come to those who wait.

Frank

Check:  :  Verbrennenmotoren BilderV2...modellmotoren Linde....Bilder V-2 for a photo-build and video of this engine.


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## aarggh (May 13, 2013)

BronxFigs said:


> The saga continues.  Just came back after driving 80 miles to get a translation, and to order the Schilling plans.  To my disgust, I found out the they don't mail to the USA....
> 
> So now I know why schilpr included his last sentence in post #9.
> 
> ...



Maybe he figured the US was too small a market, you know, not many people that build engines! 

At least you've got a way to get them now!

cheers, Ian


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## BronxFigs (May 13, 2013)

UPDATE:  The plot thickens....

Less than 5 minutes ago. I received an e-mail from this German company.  If I read their e-mail correctly, I _will_ be able to have the V-2 drawings mailed to me, here, in The States.   

I will try placing an order, again....

Much too difficult a process just to get some technical drawings for an engine...in my opinion.  But hey, that's just me.


Frank


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## Jasonb (May 13, 2013)

Quite a few european companies only set their websites up for postage within the EU mostly for tax calculations, an e-mail usually gets a quote for postage to other parts of the world.

I have also had it when ordering from the states so don't just blame the europeans for example, $160 postage if bought via the website, $12.95 if done via e-mail.

J


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## Bastelmike (May 13, 2013)

Hi Frank,

if You still haveproblems with the German language, email or PM to me. I probably can help.

Mike


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## mu38&Bg# (May 13, 2013)

Ordering from Germany is not the easiest. Send an email in English. You will get a response, as most speak English or have somebody working that does. They accept paypal, So I'm sure they can come up with a way to process your order. I've emailed companies for quotes and promptly received responses.

Greg


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## BronxFigs (May 13, 2013)

Thank you for all, the kind help, and suggestions.

This is the first time I ever attempted to order from a European country, and had no idea of what I getting myself into.  In any event, I have a way of getting the site translated, and, placing an order.  It may be cheaper to have the plans sent  to Zurich, where they will be brought back to the US by some friends of mine.  My friends have a home in Zurich, and they are going there in early, July, for a vacation holiday.  

Trust me....I will get those plans one way, or, another.

Frank


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## BronxFigs (May 17, 2013)

The next chapter in this ridiculous story:

I had e-mailed this "VTH-Verlag" company, and asked if the drawings were available, and if they could be sent to the USA.  The notified me and essentially said "yes".    Since the check-out page on their site is only in German  - no translations - I had to drive another 80 miles, round trip, so that a friend could order the plans for me.  She speaks and reads German.  Again, on the check-out page, you must give a mailing address, and there is no provision to type in "USA".  The site will NOT accept this option, and there's no way to override the choices.  So the company's e-mail, says "yes, we will mail drawings to the USA", and the check-out page says, "no".  Just more contradictions, frustrations, and more aggravation.

At this point, high pressure steam shot out of my ears, and  I was tempted to send this "VTH-Verlag" another e-mail, but this time, containing a special Bronx version, suggesting where they can stick the plans...but my friends came to the rescue and said that they would have the plans mailed to their Switzerland address, and deliver the plans to me when they returned home from their July vacation.

So eventually, I think, maybe, I'm almost sure, I will get the plans, sometime in July....that's if the plans are in stock, and everything goes as expected.  I'll keep my fingers crossed.  But it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

Frank


PS:  My thanks to all those forum members who generously, offered to help me.


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## gbritnell (May 17, 2013)

Hi Frank,
What is it you're planning on doing with the engine? By that I mean is it for a flying model or just to build a V twin? If it's the later I have good complete drawings for a V twin that has the complete build article on this forum. 
gbritnell


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## canadianhorsepower (May 17, 2013)

Hi Gbritnell



> I have good complete drawings for a V twin that has the complete build article on this forum


 
are these plans like a HOG engine do you have the link to that post
I'm interested

cheers


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## gbritnell (May 17, 2013)

Hi Luc,
Here's the link to the build.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/90-degree-v-twin-engine-6167/
gbritnell


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## gbritnell (May 17, 2013)

Hi again Luc,
Here is a video taken by someone else at a local antique engine show.
[ame]http://youtu.be/FTtyO_voUU0[/ame]
gbritnell


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## canadianhorsepower (May 17, 2013)

Thanks awsome work as usual
what are the procedures to follow to get a set of plans 

thanks


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## gbritnell (May 17, 2013)

Hi Luc,
Contact me offline at: [email protected] and I'll give you the particulars about the drawing set. 
Thanks,
George


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## BronxFigs (May 17, 2013)

Thanks to all my forum friends for offering suggestions, plans, links, etc.  I am aware of the other choices for a V-Twin engine, ans I am a big fan of both the Britnell, and the Hoglett V-2 engines.  I watch the videos all the time.

The Schilling, V-2 caught my eye because it looked like a simpler, and more easily machined, engine to build.  My machining skills are stuck in "basic" mode, and I figured that I would start with an engine that doesn't require complicated gearing, camshafts, cams, push-rods, valving, lifters, etc.  I also uses timing belts for the 2:1 reduction of shaft speed, like the Nemett-"Lynx".

In any event, the plans were ordered, and I also ordered a model engine book, written in German, that show pictures of other European model engines, including the Schilling, Single-Cylinder.  Both the V-2, and Single Cylinder are air-cooled.  No radiators, water pumps, etc. to build either.  Besides, I like looking at pictures.

The drawings will be in my hands by mid-July...I hope.   Stay tuned.   I still need suggestions for the cam timing specs. and the pistons, which I learned, were left out of the drawings.  

This engine better be worth all this time, and trouble.


Thanks again,


Frank


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## Jasonb (May 17, 2013)

I would have thought the Schillins with its four overhead camshafts was more complicated than a pushrod Hoglets single camshaft and cutting five toothed pullies is no easier than two timing gears


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## BronxFigs (May 17, 2013)

Wow....I thought I would be able to order some toothed pulleys, and belts from a company like Stock Drive Products.  The cams...if too complicated for my skill level, I will just do another engine, or get help from some friends.  I have the "Hoglett", and the "Lynx" plans as an alternative.  At least I'll have the Schilling V-2 drawings when I need them.


Frank


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## Jasonb (May 18, 2013)

You may well be able to order the pullies but then again you could also order the gears from the likes of Boston gear, I expect they will have metric pullies as well as imperial.

I would have said that an imperial engine would be easier for a beginner in the states as there is no changing of fixings or modification of holes/shafts to suit stock imperial sizes rather than have to machine imperial down to the metric sizes on the drawing

J


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## jschmuck (May 18, 2013)

Is this the same Hubert Schilling V-2 engine? If so, it appears that this site supports a USA or Canada shipping option. You can also select english for the website language. Will try later this weekend to order through them and will let you know how it went. Best regards to all.
http://www.cad-jung-shop.de/epages/62479729.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62479729/Products/00-Z0002-0


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## Jasonb (May 18, 2013)

No not the same engine the one Frank is looking at is Overhead valves with a timing belt not a single cam with pushrods though there are a lot of other similarities.


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## BronxFigs (May 19, 2013)

jschmuck....

Thanks for the link.  This is the same site that was noted in post No. 3.  I will be ordering plans from this company also.  I'm thinking of ordering the V-6.  It looks like an extended version on the V-2.  I wonder if I could make a V-2 from the V-6 plans?  These two engines look very similarly constructed.  The Schilling V-2, however,  is different.

Too bad I had already placed an order with VHT-Verlag.  But no matter...I like having plenty of drawings in the "archives" from which to choose the next project.


Frank


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## John Rus (May 19, 2013)

V6? Why not a V8! 

http://www.cad-jung-shop.de/epages/62479729.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62479729/Products/00-Z0008-0

John.


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## BronxFigs (May 19, 2013)

John

Why?   Look at those OH camshafts....plural....as in "two"    They look too difficult!  At my skill level, I'll be lucky to machine, one.  I have very serious doubts about making two.  Then, there's eight of everything else.  The V-6 "looks" like the V-2, and I will start with the V-Twin first, then work myself up the the V-6....maybe.  

Time is also a factor.  I will be using someone else's shop, machines, tooling,  and will only be working on these engines when the shop is available.  My friend, (who owns the shop) is in the middle of building a triple-compound, launch engine, and is also putting the finishing touches on a steam train, scaled like the old Cagney.  It's so big he has it on a modified, hydraulic, car-lift.  So, I have many limitations, and my schedule depends on him.   I no longer have my own, personal shop.  If I set-up a machine to make a part, I have to finish that part, on that day.  That's a PIA.  I can't/won't leave without returning the lathe, mill, etc. back into a  usable condition, just  in case he needs his tools to machine a part for himself.  There's also clean-up time factored into this equation.  Machining is all set ups, and, clean ups, and slowly removing any metal that's not needed.  Time consuming when you are a guest in someone's shop. 

But before I make the first chips fly, I will cut my teeth on a far simpler engine build than a V-8.   I have a V-4 Flame-Licker in mind.  I saw an engine on You-Tube that I'd like to try first, before any gas engine build.  No fuel mixers, camshafts, wires, spark-plugs, carbs. etc.  Simple, like me.

By the way, (stupid question coming....) is there a "distributor" involved with these V-2 thru V-8 engines?  I don't see one.  Do these engines work off some kind of sensors that trip a spark across the plugs?  Are these glow-plug engines?  

Educate me, please.



Frank


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## John Rus (May 21, 2013)

My original post and intent was by no means trying to compare a V2 to a V6 or V8, the latter two are much more involved than the V2.

To put it another way, by the time I felt confident enough (brave enough) to tackle a V6 I would rather build a V8 by far. As for the extra two cylinders (and everything that goes with it) the main work will be; to setup, figure out the bugs, figure out how to machine it, ect.  Once that is done it will not take as much time to machine the 2 other ( or more) parts once you have the setup figured out.

As for the overhead CAM don't look at it with the skills you have now (this is not a project for the inexperienced) but when you do have the skills and hopefully the tools to undertake such a project. Like I said this is future V6 vs V8 comparison not a present comparison.

John.


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## BronxFigs (May 21, 2013)

John Rus...

Happy to read not only all your comments, and suggestions, but the comments from all the other members as well.  

Your points a well received, and in fact you suggest things that I are very logical.  The main reason for ordering the V-6 engine was that it was an expansion of the V-2 configuration.  The V-8 looks like  a differently designed engine.  With the V-6, I had a choice of either making just two cylinders, or, the whole 6 cylinders....so, two engines for the price of a one set of drawings.  The company e-mailed me and confirmed that the V-6 is the V-2 engine, with four more cylinders.  I'm not experienced enough to know if I could do a V-2 from the V-8 plans.  Probably could, but I just don't know.  Either way, these engines will be in my future.

I still can't yet "think" like a machinist, and everything at this point, is confusing, and requires me to devote lots of hours of thinking about what I need to do, what tools do I need, etc. to make some engine parts.  My more experienced machinist friend, just looks at the drawings, and says...."OK....no problems....here's what has to be done".    Then, some hours later, we have the parts.  Not me. not yet.

When the plans are mailed, they will eventually go into my "archives"  where I file drawings for "Engine Builds for the Future".  

Check out the website: CAD-Modelltechnik-Jung.  Not only do they have very nicely designed model engines, and, drawings, but also list parts for their line of engines.  

Thanks for all the input from the forum members.  I need it, and appreciate the interest.


Frank


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## John Rus (May 21, 2013)

No problem! I am not a machinist but have been working with my Dad in construction and woodworking since I was 9, I have to follow blueprints all the time which many times are nothing more than a rough sketch and 'you figure out the rest'.  One thing I noticed about metalworking is that much of the same principles apply to both metal and woodworking and I relate to it very quickly, I even have thought of building a V8 for my first project but restrain mostly because of time constraints more anything else. But I will construct one make no mistake!

Personally I would save me some math and get the engine that I want than hack an existing plan if I don't have to.

Cheers ,
John.


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## canadianhorsepower (May 21, 2013)

Hi, I did purchasse a set of plans for Gbritnell for the V TWIN
very nice and well documented. Thm:


I have no problem sugesting them to other builders


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## BronxFigs (May 22, 2013)

Still trying to confirm the orders for drawings from both VHT-Verlag, and CAD-Modelltechnik-Jung.  Paid through Pay-Pal, and still, I have problems, with exchange rates, VAT, added/hidden tariffs, and other EU crap.  Nothing but E-mails to and from Germany for the last two days asking for information already provided with original order.  

I never ordered any drawings from Germany before.  I hope all this nonsense is not a typical experience.  These web-sites were not user friendly, and I finally had to get help from someone who can read and speak German just to place a order, and I still have problems even though I have provided them with the correct information, account numbers, etc.

Will this have a happy ending?  The final chapter will yet be written.  Just, too much work.


Frank


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## BronxFigs (May 30, 2013)

So finally....the plans from CAD-Modelltechnik-Jung were delivered today, in fact, just a few minutes ago. 

I was very surprised that the parts listings, etc. were "translated" into English.  Now I have to find out the American equivalents for all the alloys called for in the drawings.  I think "silver-steel" is drill rod, but I'm not sure. 

Is there a place on this forum that lists American equivalents for European alloys?  

The drawings are quality prints, and very clearly presented.  I bought the 90 degree, V-6 glow-plug engine.  At least I have the drawings, but this particular engine build will be in the future...when I have more skills.

Happy ending.

Frank


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## Jasonb (May 31, 2013)

Yes Silver Steel is drill rod

Google is your best bet to find out the metal specs I suspect most will be 6082 or 6081 with the conrods in 2014.

Just type something like "AlSi1MgMn equivalent" into google


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## BronxFigs (May 31, 2013)

Yes...JasonB:

I noticed they call for specific alloy  _formulas, and, name the elements used to make that alloy._  Is this a common practice on drawings from Europe?  

I will Google the designations, as you suggest.  Thanks for the tip.




Frank


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## Jasonb (May 31, 2013)

Depends on the part of Europe, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, UK all have their own "standard" that may be quoted, yours is most liekly the DIN standard which does go some way to telling you how the metal is made up rather than a string of numbers.

J


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## BronxFigs (May 31, 2013)

Yes, I also see that DIN qualification.  I learn something new everyday.  

Bottom line, are these alloys available in the USA?  My guess would be, yes...but it might involve a search.


Frank


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## Jasonb (May 31, 2013)

Should be available either exact or close enough for our needs.


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