# New mill and lathe.



## froudeg490 (Jul 4, 2022)

My Taig II is a great little lathe and I plan on keeping it for very small parts. For larger projects I added a bigger lathe and a mill.

I just finished building the benches. I haven't used them yet, but they spin up OK and the DROs work very well. 

It took me a very long time to decide what size of machines to buy. So far I'm happy with the fit and finish.


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## minh-thanh (Jul 5, 2022)

Great machines !


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## trlvn (Jul 5, 2022)

AIUI, your Weiss lathe is virtually identical to the machines sold by Precision Matthews, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, Busybee (in Canada), Warco (in the UK), and others.  I'm not familiar with Weiss though.  Did you buy direct from them?  What led you to choose them other the others?

BTW, the Precision Matthews manual was far superior to the one that came with my recently-purchased Busybee (Craftex CX706 model).  Do you have a link to the Weiss manual.

Craig


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## froudeg490 (Jul 5, 2022)

trlvn said:


> AIUI, your Weiss lathe is virtually identical to the machines sold by Precision Matthews, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, Busybee (in Canada), Warco (in the UK), and others.  I'm not familiar with Weiss though.  Did you buy direct from them?  What led you to choose them other the others?
> 
> BTW, the Precision Matthews manual was far superior to the one that came with my recently-purchased Busybee (Craftex CX706 model).  Do you have a link to the Weiss manual.
> 
> Craig



Craig,

I originally planned on getting both machines from Precision Matthews, but they were out of stock. I live in Arizona and the shipping would have been $400. I purchased both machines from Toolots. They are in California and shipping was free. I also had a 5% off coupon.

I looked at similar machines from Grizzly and Little Machine Shop, but the Weiss machines were less expensive.

The PM lathe comes with more accessories and it looks like the chuck attachment method is more convenient. I suspect after sales and technical support will be better.

Both machines were shipped about 2 days after placing the order. I received a tracking number and the delivery driver called ahead. I did have to pay $75 for the liftgate service. No damage to either machine.

Machined surfaces were coated with a light coat of machine oil. So far, no complaints.

I purchased a 5" independent 4 jaw chuck from Vevor. My first turning job will be to make an adapter.

I'll see if I can find a link to the manuals.

Phil


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## trlvn (Jul 5, 2022)

Hi Phil:

Maybe your Weiss machines are delivered in better condition than my Busybee but I think they are all built by the same factory/factories in China.  I found a fair bit of grit mixed with dirty oil on the internals of mine.  So far, I've disassembled, cleaned, lubed and reassembled the compound, cross-slide, tail stock, 3-jaw chuck, and 4-jaw chuck.  I recently bought the gear oil for the headstock and apron but haven't had a go at that yet.  

Do your chucks have the same mount as mine?






The bolts pull the chuck onto a tapered mount.  The large end of the opening on the chuck is just about 50mm.  BTW, my 3-jaw goes on and off the lathe very easily.  But with the 4-jaw, I have to use the nuts to pull the chuck onto the mating taper.  To remove it, I need to bump it with a brass hammer (several times) to get it to come free.  I haven't tested the fit of the face plate yet.

Since I'm yammering, I found a fun accessory for storing the change gears.  A free design is available on Thingiverse and a local guy on Kijiji agreed to print it for a few dollars:






It is actually designed for the Precision Matthews 10 inch lathe but it works perfectly for the my gears.  The empty slots are the gears that are currently on the lathe.

Craig


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## froudeg490 (Jul 5, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Hi Phil:
> 
> Maybe your Weiss machines are delivered in better condition than my Busybee but I think they are all built by the same factory/factories in China.  I found a fair bit of grit mixed with dirty oil on the internals of mine.  So far, I've disassembled, cleaned, lubed and reassembled the compound, cross-slide, tail stock, 3-jaw chuck, and 4-jaw chuck.  I recently bought the gear oil for the headstock and apron but haven't had a go at that yet.
> 
> ...



Hi Craig,

I took apart the tailstock, toolpost and compound and they were fairly clean. I will probably disassemble more and lube etc. I'm waiting for the material to arrive to make the 4 jaw chuck adapter.

The chuck is attached with 3ea 8mm studs. The registration pilot is 52mm. 

I like the change gear holder. I have a 3D printer, so I'll have a go at printing one.

Phil


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## animal12 (Jul 5, 2022)

You may want to take the chuck apart . Every chuck I have bought & seen that came from over the left ocean had a bunch of grit & swarf  inside . Have you gotten all the twist out of the lathe bed ?
animal


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## froudeg490 (Jul 6, 2022)

I haven't taken the chucks apart yet, but it's on my to do list. Definitely a good suggestion.

I haven't leveled the bed yet. I still need to decide on the final location for both machines.
It will be interesting to see how it works out. It's something that I haven't done before. The lathes that I used during my apprenticeship had probably been leveled sometime in the 50s....

Phil


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## animal12 (Jul 6, 2022)

Do you have , or have access to a good machinist level ? Be prepared to spend some time on the process . I couldn't believe how much time I spent moving the level back & forth up & down the lathe bed . Through some good fortune I have 3 Starrett levels now ! Cut the time in half ! Good Luck 
animal


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## timo_gross (Jul 6, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Hi Phil:
> ... but I think they are all built by the same factory/factories in China .....


Haha do not let yourself be fooled by "the same factory" myth.
Imagine: Feeding your favorate lady at the first date vs. feeding the neighbours cat. ( All coming from same kitchen in USA? )  

Greetings Timo


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## pete (Jul 6, 2022)

My Weiss branded lathe was ordered and shipped from Quebec. And there are or were Weiss labled machines in a few parts of Europe. For at least mine and I believe the Warco 280V, PM 1127 and LB models they all seem to be built in Nanjing China. That said, and while they might be from the same factory, there's various non stock or usual features some of the tool dealers just don't bother to list. MT 3 tail stocks as just one example where most list there's with MT 2. Now there's also various spindle nose designs from what seem to be quite rare threaded, then the studs and nuts and up to the proper D1-3. Just because a dealer lists the lathe with only certain features doesn't mean others aren't available as long as your willing to special order and wait for it to be built and shipped with the next order because that's what I did. I dunno, maybe not all dealers would be willing to do so. Mine was.

These machine tool factory's are now much like the North American automotive factory's from the 1950's - 80's. They'll have an available option list and with business the way it is in China, will build some of the quality, grinding etc up or down to meet your out the door price point. Grizzly has mentioned quite a few times in the past having there own limited staff at some of the machine tool manufacturers as there in place QC for final acceptance the tool would meet there minimum standards. Looking just like is *not *the same thing as being exactly the same. Some models of the PM lathes have feed rod clutches instead of the rudimentary shear pin all the rest seem to have. Superficially then yes they all look to be the same until you start to look a bit closer. I'd also suggest it's fairly safe to assume the lower volume dealers with lower price points might get some of the lesser or close to out of spec parts that the high volume dealers don't, or in Grizzly's case there own QC reps ensure they get the better parts and assembled machines. It's simple business economics at that point.  That also might answer why some lower priced machines have more part or electrical issues mentioned on these forums than other more established dealers do for what looks to be the very same machine. Since we don't know for sure were all mostly guessing. But I'd rather make mine with more logic based guesses.


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## stanstocker (Jul 6, 2022)

Hi Folks,

I knew a gent, now gone, who imported tooling.  He told me that he could buy stuff made from the same looking castings from the same factory at differing price points.  The 50 cents per pound stuff was the bottom of the barrel, poor casting quality, roughly machined, ungraded hardware, paint over sand, all the stuff that gives Chinese machines a bad name.  The dollar a pound stuff was OK, typically usable with minimal tweaking and replacing hardware, in some cases a good value.  The three dollar a pound stuff had the best castings, well machined, better hardware, tighter tolerances, upgraded electricals if any, usually pretty darn good to excellent.  A catalog photo of three machines or accessories at these three price points could lead you to think they were the same machine.  Hard to tell gold from gold paint in a small photo sometimes 

This was probably 20 years ago, from what I've seen at Cabin Fever and at a few dealers it appears that there are either higher end / lower end manufacturers using similar to identical designs and raw parts, or at least some factories still build at varying quality levels to meet customer requirements.

Some folks want a 115 piece drill bit set for $19.99, some folks wouldn't want those bits anywhere in their shops.

Cheers,
Stan


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## stanstocker (Jul 6, 2022)

froudeg490 said:


> My Taig II is a great little lathe and I plan on keeping it for very small parts. For larger projects I added a bigger lathe and a mill.
> 
> I just finished building the benches. I haven't used them yet, but they spin up OK and the DROs work very well.
> 
> It took me a very long time to decide what size of machines to buy. So far I'm happy with the fit and finish.




Where or where are my manners today?  Congratulations on your new machines.  I hope you get a lot of pleasure from them.

Cheers,
Stan


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## trlvn (Jul 6, 2022)

froudeg490 said:


> The chuck is attached with 3ea 8mm studs. The registration pilot is 52mm.


Does this "pilot" taper at all?  Mine has a slight taper.  So far, I haven't found the details of taper.  I'm toying with the idea of a collet chuck so I'd need to be able to make something with a good fit.

Craig


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## packrat (Jul 6, 2022)

I think blondihacks uses a lathe of that size, watch her videos on youtube she is good....


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## Bentwings (Jul 6, 2022)

trlvn said:


> AIUI, your Weiss lathe is virtually identical to the machines sold by Precision Matthews, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, Busybee (in Canada), Warco (in the UK), and others.  I'm not familiar with Weiss though.  Did you buy direct from them?  What led you to choose them other the others?
> 
> BTW, the Precision Matthews manual was far superior to the one that came with my recently-purchased Busybee (Craftex CX706 model).  Do you have a link to the Weiss manual.
> I’m green with envy. Congratulations. . Time to get you Hogson 18 cyl radial engine plans .
> ...


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## mccreamark (Jul 6, 2022)

I had the Weiss 8inch lathe(sold it) pretty good, and I still have the Optimum version of your mill (excellent), I cnced it 12 years ago, it still surprises me how well it runs. I have refused a few generous offers for it. Good luck with your new machines.

Mark


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## william_b_noble (Jul 6, 2022)

a friend of mine who died a couple of years ago was good friends with Chris, the owner of little machineshop dot com.  he examined several of the items of tooling rather carefully, helped evaluate the prototypes from China and designed new parts for some of them.  His last purchase of a machine was a mini-mill - he redesigned the drawbar and a few other parts.  I have scanned a lot of his material and posted it on OWWM.org, including his planns for a tramming tool.   I think the comments up-thread about you get what you pay for are salient - even with tools like a micrometer - you can get harbor freight, Shars, and SPI, all made in China.  and you can feel the difference as soon as you turn the dial - same with dial calipers.  My friend must have bought 40 or 50 calipers from harbor freight when they were on sale, I'm still getting rid of them, they are OK but they are not Mitutoyo quality.  So (here's a hint for you) save up for a bit if you need to and look for one of the Mitutoyo solar powered calipers, mine say code no. 500-491, model CD-S6"CP.  I got mine used, they have a cal sticker that says next cal due 3-9-07.  I have some gauge blocks, so I checked it at varous extensions and with just a little care, I'm accurate and repeatable to less than 1/2 thousandth of an inch, if I practice with a gauge block that is near the size I want to measure, then I can get that to about 2 tenths.  That's beyond my machining skill


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## animal12 (Jul 6, 2022)

Pawn shops are sometimes a good source for precision tools at a good price . I bought a Mitutoyo 1" digital mic for $30.00 at one . Went back to the same one last week & came home with a Starrett Last Word indicator set & a Fowler 3" ratchet thimble mic for $ 25 .00 for the pair , The caliper still has 2 months till its due for its next calibration . The Starrett & the Fowler are past due . I cary a few standards in my glove box . You never know when you may need one . 
I know that DroPros carries the Weiss mills & lathes & from what i have heard in the past Weiss is one of the companies that pays the extra $$$$ at the factories to get the better quality machines .


			Weiss Lathes
		

animal


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## william_b_noble (Jul 7, 2022)

if you actually want micrometers and last word type indicators you can message me - my experience is that pawn shops are usually (not always) pretty aware of what they are selling.  I'm still trying to dig out from under a giant pile of stuff from my friend's estate, I just reached to my right and picked up a Gem 222 which is a little less expensive than a Last Word (no less accurate though) with a blemish on the crystal -  sigh - so much stuff .....

lesson: stuff can own you - my friend lost that battle, I'm fighting it.


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## animal12 (Jul 7, 2022)

Im looking for a set of gage blocks & a coaxial indicator . Let me know what you have 
animal


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## froudeg490 (Jul 7, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Does this "pilot" taper at all?  Mine has a slight taper.  So far, I haven't found the details of taper.  I'm toying with the idea of a collet chuck so I'd need to be able to make something with a good fit.
> 
> Craig



Craig,

No, the registration detail appears to be parallel. 

Phil


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## froudeg490 (Jul 7, 2022)

packrat said:


> I think blondihacks uses a lathe of that size, watch her videos on youtube she is good....



Agreed. Great videos. She has the PM version. They are almost identical.


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## ajoeiam (Jul 7, 2022)

william_b_noble said:


> if you actually want micrometers and last word type indicators you can message me - my experience is that pawn shops are usually (not always) pretty aware of what they are selling.  I'm still trying to dig out from under a giant pile of stuff from my friend's estate, I just reached to my right and picked up a Gem 222 which is a little less expensive than a Last Word (no less accurate though) with a blemish on the crystal -  sigh - so much stuff .....
> 
> lesson: stuff can own you - my friend lost that battle, I'm fighting it.



Hm - -- a list of what all you're trying to move would be useful - - -imo anyway.


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## trlvn (Jul 7, 2022)

ajoeiam said:


> Hm - -- a list of what all you're trying to move would be useful - - -imo anyway.


He's been listing stuff for ages on OWWM.org.  Try this search for samples:



			Old Woodworking Machines - Search
		


Craig


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## ajoeiam (Jul 7, 2022)

trlvn said:


> He's been listing stuff for ages on OWWM.org.  Try this search for samples:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmm - - - thanks.
I've found posts but no real 'listings' of stuff. 
Even the parts bins have some serious value! (imo)

OK - - - maybe he will respond here (???).


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## KellisRJ (Jul 7, 2022)

Congratulations! Lots of fun ahead. 


pete said:


> Grizzly has mentioned quite a few times in the past having there own limited staff at some of the machine tool manufacturers as there in place QC for final acceptance the tool would meet there minimum standards.



I have remembered this from literally decades ago when Grizzly first started production in Taiwan. Another part is a culture of "It's up to you to catch me." And little argument if caught. But if you don't have QC on site, by the time the container gets across the water it's too late. This was reinforced to me  when I read that is is still common for a Chinese consumer to have a box opened and the device plugged in to prove it works. Not so different from what went on with mail-order in the US in the 18th century.   

I wish you many happy hours.

Ron


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## william_b_noble (Jul 7, 2022)

_OK - - - maybe he will respond here (???)._

Me?  I list some things on OWWM in a forum called BYOD**, I list some stuff on ebay, and sometimes people call me.  I use the same user name everywhere, e.g. william_b_noble.  I have some items on my web site (wbnoble.com) but I rarely update that.  I have one of these Deni-Tool things remaining, the other photos are of the DeVoe estate - some of you may have known Bob - a gentleman, a master machinist and a really major collector and accumulator (in a good way), I'm sure that an overflight with a magnetometer will show the before/after difference - for your reference, that large Zubal lathe sold for $2300, accessories for it brought on the far side of 30 grand - nobody would buy the lathe with acessories at 20 grand.  it's all so weird.  There came a point where my objective was to keep items out of the dumpster - I didn't succeed 100%, there was probably 30 grand of stuff left behind that I'm sure went into a dumpster, plus 2 40 ft containers with 6 lathes, a shaper, and bla bla bla.... I think that was all abandoned.    my objective is to get my life back before this stuff takes it over .... (much of the estate photo stuff is gone now but some remains)

** note that most of the OWWM forums don't appear  unless you join.


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## william_b_noble (Jul 7, 2022)

animal12 said:


> Im looking for a set of gage blocks & a coaxial indicator . Let me know what you have
> animal


I had two coaxial indicators, they are gone now - I can post Bob's plans for making one with a pair of inexpensive dial indicators, if that will help you.

as for gauge blocks, I have two sets, I can't get either to wring together, that's a disappointment - one is B&S, the other might be lufkin, I don't remember - I think I want to keep a set just for checking calibration of stuff


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## animal12 (Jul 8, 2022)

Yea , I'd like to see those plans . Just for kicks what you want got the  the non B&S set , how many pieces is the set .
Wher in the US ? 
Northern CA here
animal


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## william_b_noble (Jul 8, 2022)

Southern CA  the non B&S set is new and unused, all the pieces aw wrapped in oiled paper, etc ... $75.  I put it aside for myself but following my rule that "things can own you", if I find I really need one I can buy a set.


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## william_b_noble (Jul 8, 2022)

here are some scans from papers from the DeVoe estate, I haven't found plans for the coaxial indicator


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## william_b_noble (Jul 8, 2022)

and some scans for some kind of model - I have a box full of mixed parts and another of not so mixed parts ... may have something to do with this - Bob D always wanted to build the models he bought, but he spent all the remaining years of his life organizing his stuff... there's a lesson there for us all.


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## ajoeiam (Jul 8, 2022)

william_b_noble said:


> _OK - - - maybe he will respond here (???)._
> 
> Me?  I list some things on OWWM in a forum called BYOD**, I list some stuff on ebay, and sometimes people call me.  I use the same user name everywhere, e.g. william_b_noble.  I have some items on my web site (wbnoble.com) but I rarely update that.  I have one of these Deni-Tool things remaining, the other photos are of the DeVoe estate - some of you may have known Bob - a gentleman, a master machinist and a really major collector and accumulator (in a good way), I'm sure that an overflight with a magnetometer will show the before/after difference - for your reference, that large Zubal lathe sold for $2300, accessories for it brought on the far side of 30 grand - nobody would buy the lathe with acessories at 20 grand.  it's all so weird.  There came a point where my objective was to keep items out of the dumpster - I didn't succeed 100%, there was probably 30 grand of stuff left behind that I'm sure went into a dumpster, plus 2 40 ft containers with 6 lathes, a shaper, and bla bla bla.... I think that was all abandoned.    my objective is to get my life back before this stuff takes it over .... (much of the estate photo stuff is gone now but some remains)
> 
> ** note that most of the OWWM forums don't appear  unless you join.


well - - - for me then its a case of being in the right place at the wrong time 

Curious as to what accessories brought a total of $30k - - please.

The forum is not terribly accessible then. 
I looked yesterday as suggested by others and found very little. 
I am actively trying to minimize my browse time on the web - - - - have far too many things happening to want to increase time spent on the intersweb that 'may be useful sometimes' and I'm already here - - - one such site is enough to scratch that itch - - -imo anyway.


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## william_b_noble (Jul 8, 2022)

what brought 30K?  a few dozen chucks incluidng quite a few Bison set-true, Aloris tool holders, collet sets, MT, Jarno & B&S reamers, mostly.  I priced new items at 1/2 of new.  used items at 20 to 50% below ebay. the $ went to the estate.  there were a few things that were $$ including a Kingway scraping guide (not part of the lathe of course), and a lot of new or great condition measuring tools (indical, for example, mitutoyo, starret, B&S, Lufkin, Fowler, Helios....)

as for finding little - okay, I understand that.  If I wanted to be in the retail tool business, I'd rent a warehose and quit my day job.  I don't want to do that, I enjoy restoring, even selling restored or repaired things but I despise accounting, and I have better things to do with my time.  if this was a real business and not my way of getting a few tools "for free", I'd setup a complete inventory system, hire staff and all that.  it's not going to happen - as you will find with many who have hobbies like this, you have to meet us where we are, not where you want us to be.  I"m happy to help people, I'm happy to accept help too, but like you, there are some things I choose not to do.


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## animal12 (Jul 8, 2022)

Thanks on the gage blocks , I found a new set in my budget from Shars .
thanks again
animal


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## william_b_noble (Jul 8, 2022)

Excellent, Shars is a good quality Chinese brand.  What kind of project will you use thos accuracy for?


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## animal12 (Jul 8, 2022)

They can be used for different sizes of standards & for verifying height of parts to name a few . animal


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## animal12 (Jul 8, 2022)

animal12 said:


> They can be used for different sizes of standards & for verifying height of parts to name a few . animal


This will be my first experience dealing with Shars . I found shopping from their Ebay store they seem to have better prices than in their cataloges & they don't jack you as much for freight on some items . But I don't get how they do it . Look at the shipping differences here . Gage blocks SHARS 81 PCS GRADE B GAGE GAUGE BLOCK SET NIST CERTIFICATE M}  | eBay $ 17.00 freight . Angle block set SHARS PRECISION GROUND ANGLE BLOCK SET 12 PCS NEW R[  | eBay
freight $ 24.80 . The gage blocks are a larger & heavier set to ship but the freight is less . I don't get it  ?
animal


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## william_b_noble (Jul 8, 2022)

here are some more scans from the devoe estate, one of the files is too large so it didn't upload


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## william_b_noble (Jul 11, 2022)

since I can't find the plans, I probably scanned them some time ago, here is the essence as a sketch - the radius is a "nice" match for the dial indicators, the spacing should be symmetrical, 3 or 4 inches to each side of the center - easy to make on a mill and a hand saw - bore the vertical holes to size, bore the two radiuses to make the nice curve, saw the rest with a saw, slit the ends, drill and tap the two holes, press in the dowel pin (you can use drill rod of course) and you are done.


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## Bazzer (Jul 22, 2022)

pete said:


> My Weiss branded lathe was ordered and shipped from Quebec. And there are or were Weiss labled machines in a few parts of Europe. For at least mine and I believe the Warco 280V, PM 1127 and LB models they all seem to be built in Nanjing China. That said, and while they might be from the same factory, there's various non stock or usual features some of the tool dealers just don't bother to list. MT 3 tail stocks as just one example where most list there's with MT 2. Now there's also various spindle nose designs from what seem to be quite rare threaded, then the studs and nuts and up to the proper D1-3. Just because a dealer lists the lathe with only certain features doesn't mean others aren't available as long as your willing to special order and wait for it to be built and shipped with the next order because that's what I did. I dunno, maybe not all dealers would be willing to do so. Mine was.
> 
> These machine tool factory's are now much like the North American automotive factory's from the 1950's - 80's. They'll have an available option list and with business the way it is in China, will build some of the quality, grinding etc up or down to meet your out the door price point. Grizzly has mentioned quite a few times in the past having there own limited staff at some of the machine tool manufacturers as there in place QC for final acceptance the tool would meet there minimum standards. Looking just like is *not *the same thing as being exactly the same. Some models of the PM lathes have feed rod clutches instead of the rudimentary shear pin all the rest seem to have. Superficially then yes they all look to be the same until you start to look a bit closer. I'd also suggest it's fairly safe to assume the lower volume dealers with lower price points might get some of the lesser or close to out of spec parts that the high volume dealers don't, or in Grizzly's case there own QC reps ensure they get the better parts and assembled machines. It's simple business economics at that point.  That also might answer why some lower priced machines have more part or electrical issues mentioned on these forums than other more established dealers do for what looks to be the very same machine. Since we don't know for sure were all mostly guessing. But I'd rather make mine with more logic based guesses.


I would give a resident customer QC person in a Chinese factory little chance of over ruling the Chinese production manager on any QC issue, the Chinese factory would rail road the QC guy and too much trouble and their visa would be withdrawn.


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## trlvn (Jul 23, 2022)

Bazzer said:


> I would give a resident customer QC person in a Chinese factory little chance of over ruling the Chinese production manager on any QC issue, the Chinese factory would rail road the QC guy and too much trouble and their visa would be withdrawn.


Um, the factory will only get paid for their work if the QC person agrees that the product meets the agreed-upon metrics.  

If the QC person hasn't signed off, the purchasing company is not going to accept the shipment.

Either way, the factory doesn't get paid without the QC approval.  How do you see that putting the factory in a position of power?

Craig


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