# Luck of the Dumpster



## vederstein (Oct 5, 2016)

I was back in the machine shop at my workplace and in the scrap bin I found eight ball screw slides.  The longest has about a 23" stroke.

I asked my boss, and he let me take them.

After some investigation, they've been sitting on a shelf for years and they just decided to scrap them.

I don't know what I'm going to do with them, but SCORE!!!!!

...Ved.


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## Ratshooter (Oct 5, 2016)

In the time honored tradition of the Home Shop Machinist board, let me be the first to award you with the "You Suck" honor!

Regards, Tim


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## DICKEYBIRD (Oct 6, 2016)

Geez, you suck so bad, the world barometric pressure just plunged downward.

(Congrats on a huge stroke of luck!)


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## Journeyman (Oct 6, 2016)

Definitely jealous!! Looks like you are half way to a nice CNC router there..

Good Luck
John


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## DICKEYBIRD (Oct 6, 2016)

vederstein said:


> I don't know what I'm going to do with them,


Looking at that photo of your shop, you're going to have trouble finding a spot to store at least 3 of those.  I have the perfect spot to store them: under my ol' all-thread rod equipped router!


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## vederstein (Oct 6, 2016)

Thanks for ribbing....

I think I'll probably make a CNC router.  I'm not a woodworker, but my brother and brother in law are.  I'll probably give it to one of them when done.  It'll be a nice winter/spring project.

Going this route will ease my wife's mind for a while.  I was going to get a 3D printer and get set up for an aluminum lost wax foundry.  (But I have _*no* _experience with casting).

That will use up probably four slides (2 Y-axis, 1 X-axis, 1 Z-axis).

As for the remainder, I see a CNC or Ardunio controlled bubble machine for the 2017 Maker Faire season.

...Ved.


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## vederstein (Nov 13, 2016)

Following are some pics of the progress I've made using these slides to build a CNC router.

If there's interest, I can continue posting.  If not, I can stop.  It's no big deal to me.

Anyway, except for the 4" aluminum channel and wood I purchased for the Y-axis slide mounting, I'm building this thing with materials I have laying around and without any plans.  It's just kind of falling together as I go.  (I'm amazed at the quantity of aluminium barstock I've accumulated.  Some of this stuff I didn't even know I had).

Onto the pictures:


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 14, 2016)

vederstein said:


> Following are some pics of the progress I've made using these slides to build a CNC router.
> 
> If there's interest, I can continue posting.  If not, I can stop.  It's no big deal to me.


Heck yes there's interest!  Keep it coming.  I need to see lots of CNC construction at the moment to keep me motivated.  I'm itching to move forward with the upgrades to my router but my neighbor/buddy & his company have other plans.  They give me little machining jobs now & then but this latest batch is taking up all my nights & weekends.  Oh well, gotta make hay while the sun shines.  I can use the extra income to buy more toys!


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## Journeyman (Nov 14, 2016)

You will want to keep it!! Routers are not for wood alone. If built rigid enough and fitted with a cheapo 2.2kW water cooled spidle it will happily munch it's way through aluminium.
Keep posting 
John


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## vederstein (Nov 18, 2016)

The past few days have been productive.

First I drilled/tapped the blocks which will mount the X-axis rail.
The to see my progress, I C-clamped the X-axis in place.

Later I'll transfer punch the mounting holes in the slide to the blocks.  Then I'll drill/tap the blocks to mount the rail permanently.


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## vederstein (Nov 18, 2016)

For a change of pace, I started work on the electronics.

I purchased the largest junction box enclosure I could fine at Lowes.  Unfortunately what looked big in the store wasn't so big with all the components I needed to install...


Two 36vdc / 10 amp power supplies
Four stepper motor drivers
One Arduino Uno with a screw shield
Terminal screw block
Power Switch
The box is deep, so I made a two layer box.  Please don't laugh at the pictures, I'm not an electrician, but at least I did apply labels to the wires...


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 19, 2016)

No laughing here Robert, looks great to me.

Man, that X-axis ain't lacking for power!  Two manly drivers and 2 manly stepper motors.  You could add a log-splitter attachment on that!

Just kidding, it looks great.  When you get it up & making chips I'd like to hear a report on how well those drivers work for you, I'll be purchasing 3 myself before too long.

So you're using the Uno instead of a dedicated PC & Mach or LinuxCNC?  Man, that's way above my tiny knowledge level!  I'll be interested to see how that system is implemented.


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## vederstein (Nov 19, 2016)

I purchased I four axis kit from Long's Motor Ebay shop.  When I bought them it was $259.  Now it's $300.  It's only been about five weeks difference.

I have a Seig X2 mini-mill that I converted to CNC running linuxCNC.  I'm going Ardunio here so anyone can install the software on their computer/laptop and run the machine.  The Bcnc software spoon feeds G-code to the Arduino which is running GRBL.  It connects via usb, so no antiquated parallel port is necessary.

..Ved.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 19, 2016)

vederstein said:


> ....so no antiquated parallel port is necessary.


Hey, I resemble that remark!  Parallel ports on all 3 of my machines.

I do envy your grasp of Linux.  I'd have PathPilot on my lathe in an instant if I could but alas, it's not gonna happen unless a Linux wizard moves in next door.


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## vederstein (Nov 19, 2016)

I didn't know there was a software called Path Pilot.  Upon some research, it's a fork of LinuxCNC.  As far as I can tell, it's the LinuxCNC back end with a PCI card instead of the parallel port and a new front end (gui).  As such, it's subject to the GPL v2 open source licensing.  That means Tormach _must_ make the source code available.

Apparently they're meeting the requirements of the license without really supporting the open source goal of the license.  You have to make a request in writing to Tormach then they will send you the code.  For them it's not in their interest to openly divulge their intellectual "property."  But then the code base _never was_ their property in the first place.  If I remember correctly, LinuxCNC started as a government research project.

Also, if it's the conversational programming you crave, LinuxCNC has that too with the NGCGUI addon.  The addon has mill, lathe, and probing applications for it.  Hell, I've written a couple myself (a teardrop shape and routine to mill a true ellipse).

So based on what I've read and viewed, I don't see a big advantage to Path Pilot over LinuxCNC.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

...Ved.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 20, 2016)

vederstein said:


> So based on what I've read and viewed, I don't see a big advantage to Path Pilot over LinuxCNC.


Thanks very much for the detailed explanation.  My interest in Path Pilot came about through watching YouTube videos of it in action.  It looked so much easier (to me) than LinuxCNC and I thought there was a possibility of an easy installer.  With my meager computer skills, Path Pilot sounded like a way to sneak into the Linux world without the pain but alas, tisn't so.  I had tried running Linux on my little Denford mill long ago using the standalone CD but it may as well have been Cyrillic.  I got the main Linux GUI going & ran the tests but everything was way over my head when it came to making steppers actually work.

At 2 weeks shy of turning 69 years old, a completely new way of computing just ain't possible; but I _can_ watch you & other wizards having fun with Linux!  Don't get me wrong, I'm making plenty of great parts with Mach, I just have to put up with some "features."


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## vederstein (Nov 20, 2016)

Starting on the Z-axis slide:

First was to make a plate to adapt the X-Axis carriage to the Z-Axis frame.  Note that I added several extra holes in the plate.  This allows adjustment of the Z-axis height.

The reason is that unlike many CNC routers I've seen on the Internet, I purposely kept the distance between the table and the X-axis slide shallow, about 7 inches.  The reason is threefold:


The longer the side arms, the more deflection there will be in the final system.
The slide has a 4 or 5 inch stroke, so I really didn't need much.
I was somewhat limited by the material I had laying around.  I could have added about 3-4 more inches, but see number 1.
Once the Z-axis was mounted, I started an adaptor plate to mount the Z-axis motor to the slide.  The motor is way big for this slide, so I'll turn down the amperage to limit the motor.

...Ved.


​


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 22, 2016)

I really like your adjustable Z-axis mount idea, thanks!  One of the uses I've planned for mine is to mount up my Tap-Matic clone tapping head to tap lotsa holes on occasion.  After seeing yours, I think I'll make mine with several Z-mount positions with locating dowels for repeatability.  One location for the milling spindle, one for the router & another for the tapping head chucked in the mill spindle.:thumbup:


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## vederstein (Dec 2, 2016)

With the recent U.S. holidays, I haven't made as much progress that I normally would have.  But there's been some progress none the less...

First I bored a 4" diameter piece of roundstock to mount the router I'm going to use as a spindle.  It will eventually become a split ring clamp, but I haven't gotten that far.

Second, any project of this size and complexity will eventually involve things that just aren't enjoyable.  I've hit that point.  I'm no fan of soldering wires, but its just one of those things that must be done.  Unfortunately, there's a lot more soldering still to do...

...Ved.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Dec 2, 2016)

Yup, soldering those little XLR pins is not my idea of fun!  When I get to that point on mine, I'm going to try these; I think these are easier to work with although a little pricier.  The clones aren't bad price wise: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-Speako...913974?hash=item3d2a5f9bf6:g:EzwAAOSwWF5XLn1n


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## vederstein (Dec 3, 2016)

Continuing on with the spindle mount...

The clamp ring is kind of a mini-project in itself given the number of steps it takes to make this thing.  Also,  I've stated in previous threads:  SLITTING SAWS SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!!!

Note the upper screws are far too long.  They're just what I have laying around.  I'll get the correct length when I get to the hardware store.

Onto the pictures....


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## DICKEYBIRD (Dec 4, 2016)

vederstein said:


> Continuing on with the spindle mount...
> 
> The clamp ring is kind of a mini-project in itself given the number of steps it takes to make this thing.  Also,  I've stated in previous threads:  SLITTING SAWS SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!!!
> 
> ...


Nice work Ved; you're gettin' closer & closer to making CNC routed chips every day!  I know what you mean about mini-projects; it seems like every step of my projects lately involves the making (or buying) of a new tool or fixture.

Is that a 3 jaw chuck on your mill?  How'd you accomplish that?

I got tired of running to the screw supply house every few weeks a couple years ago so I bought a crap-load of the longest ones of each size that were threaded all the way to the head.  I made this thing I call the "Screw Chopper" from a cheap HF angle grinder.  I use it all the time & it sure saves gas & time going out for screws!


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## vederstein (Dec 4, 2016)

I have a 2" three jaw Bison chuck.  The end is threaded 1/2-20.  I made an arbor for it so I can use a 5/8" R-8 collet to mount it.  My mill is a round column mill/drill.  So sometimes I'm starved for Z-axis clearance.  When in a jam I use the chuck.  If I just move the head up or down I lose my X and Y positioning.

As for this job, my mill head was a bit too high and I didn't have enough Z-axis to reach the ring centerline so I used the Bison to gain an extra 1-1/2" of Z-axis.

...Ved.


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## vederstein (Dec 10, 2016)

Continuing on with the router build:

I had come to decision time.  It may sound odd, but I had to consider what side is the front.

If you go to the Probotix website, the CNC routers they have for sale (they have dual Y-axis motors like the one I'm building does) have the motors facing the operator.  I don't know why they chose this, but it has the advantage of running less length of cable.  On the other hand it places the motors in a position where they could get bumped.  In my research, the most I've seen have the motors in the same orientation as the Probotix: at the front.

I decided to put my motors on at the rear of the machine.  I think this will help keep crud and debris out of the moving components since most of the milling will be done towards the front where it's easier for the operator to access.

So I re-oriented the machine.  I also moved the X-axis gantry to gain an extra three inches in Y-Axis travel.

I also think this will make the operator's side less cluttered after I install the electrical connectors and E-stop button.

...Ved.


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## vederstein (Dec 10, 2016)

After re-orienting the gantry, it was time to install the drag chain.

Again, this was done without any plans, I just placed the chains where it seems logical and went at it, making brackets as I went.

I'm getting excited that I may have this thing running under its own power soon!!!

...Ved.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Dec 11, 2016)

Lookin' good Ved; it won't be long now!  That drag chain looks great; did you find a reasonably priced source for it?  I saw somewhere that a fellow 3d printed his own snap-together links.  Must be nice!

Looking at your bridge, can you still add a couple triangulated braces in the Y-direction to reduce flexing on heavy cuts?  I guess it would help in the X-direction as well but that'd mean at least 2 extra rail trucks and would reduce the travel.

Anyhoo, make sure & post up some video when the time comes!


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## vederstein (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks,

The drag chain came from an e-bay store:   http://www.ebay.com/itm/322232081490?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Hell, most of the components I've had to buy for this project came from ebay.

If necessary, I can add more support, but I want to see how it cuts before putting more weight into this thing.  The ball screw slides are quite heavy and at this point, I don't even know how I'm going to get the machine off the saw horses it's sitting on.

So, does anyone know how much deflection is typical for a CNC router?  Obviously less is better, but there must be some acceptable level or these things would be 2000# blocks on cast iron.

...Ved.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Dec 11, 2016)

Great price on the drag chain, thanks for the link!

All you need for a bunch of added rigidity is to put a diagonal aluminum brace between each y-axis vertical member & the cross-beam.  Doesn't need to be big & heavy, just enough to do the job.  With those big honking steppers, you don't have to worry about a little more weight.:thumbup:


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## vederstein (Dec 18, 2016)

Continuing on with the router build....

Cables!  Cables!  Cables! More Cables!!!!!

I figured out that thus far I've had to make 76 solder connections and I really haven't started the home sensor and E-stop wiring yet.

I partially disassembled the machine to modify a panel through which the electrical connectors are attached.  The material is too thick for the connecters, so I added a pocket.

I was able to actually get the thing powered up.  I made three wiring mistakes which I corrected at the control box.

I can move the machine in manual mode and it will take G-codes individually, but the BCNC software won't run a proper cutting program.  I think it's because BCNC spoon feeds GRBL way too fast.  Has anyone had the same issue and know how to fix it?

That's all for now....

...Ved.


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## vederstein (Dec 23, 2016)

I was able to do some initial cuts today.  After a little bit of a learning curve and inverting my Y-axis, I present the following video....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9nCpI2enQ[/ame]

I still need to receive switches for the homing sensors and the E-stop.  Sometimes shipping just takes a while.

...Ved.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Dec 23, 2016)

Nice job Ved; you got that project going very quick!:thumbup:  Is that under Arduino control?


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## vederstein (Dec 24, 2016)

Yes,

It's running the Arduino as the GRBL motion controller.  The bCNC software is the front end (G-code sender to GRBL).  When I get some time, I'm going to see if its rigid enough to do light cuts on aluminium.

I finally realized why most CNC routers have the motors to the front, it  maximizes the Y-axis travel.  As it is now, the router head will pass  over the end of the work area making about 1-1/4 inches of travel  useless.

I considered making some brackets to gain back that distance, but on  reflection I'll leave it.  This overhang will allow me to re-square the  X-axis when the two Y-axis motors inevitably get out of sync.

They won't go out of sync from the controller: they run off the same  step and direction pulse.  They'll get out of sync if someone (or thing)  bumps the gantry too hard moving one side but not the other.

(I had a picture of the overhang, but there's something wrong with the website and I keep getting an "upload failed" error.  Sorry.

...Ved.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Dec 24, 2016)

vederstein said:


> Yes, It's running the Arduino as the GRBL motion controller.  The bCNC software is the front end (G-code sender to GRBL).  When I get some time, I'm going to see if its rigid enough to do light cuts on aluminium.


That's amazing stuff to me; it was hard enough for me to learn how to use Mach.  Seeing what you fellows that really understand computers are able to accomplish never ceases to amaze me.

I think it will do better than you think in aluminum.  You'll just have to get your feeds & speeds adjusted to suit _your _machine & not worry about the blinding speeds & metal hogging feats that seem to obsess everyone.  After all, the goal is to make cool stuff, not to fill up one's shop with chips in 5 minutes!


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## vederstein (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks for the praise, but I'm not really doing anything novel.  I'm standing on the shoulders of those that actually wrote and maintain the GRBL and bCNC projects.  I just read up on it and put the components together.  Those people in the open source community are the real innovators on this project. 

I am an industrial machine designer/engineer, so guess I have a technical leg up than most when it comes to machine integration, but I'm no programmer.

As for the chips, I can attest at this time it makes a hell of a lot of wood dust.  

Thanks,

...Ved.


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## peter2uat (Feb 16, 2017)

Great idea, will copy this as soon as my interest in the 3D-printer thing diminishes ;-)
I love seeing you all doing impossible (for me) things!
Peter


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