# The Fowler 16 n.h.p Single Cyl Ploughing Engine



## Tinkerer58 (May 22, 2012)

Hi every one hope you're all doing well in chip land.
I wonder if anyone can help. I have a collection of old Model Engineer magazines and I'm just putting together a a book with some interesting plans and instructions for various models that were published many years ago. This one is a Fowler Ploughing Engine 16 n.h.p. single cylinder. The plans and build instruction were by John Haining and were published in the above mag. between December 1980 and June 1982. But guess what I have one part missing and it is part XV which would have been published in February 1982. Does any have a copy of this that may be able to scan it for me so I can complete the set of plans and build instructions. I have scanned mine at 400dpi using settings for glossy photo settings and they come out like they have just come from the printers in JPG format and then I turn it into a pdf file. Works a treat, saves having the old mags damaged and greasy cause there is a lot great info in them and I don't wanna to loose that. Your help would be greatly appreciated. If your missing any info I'm happy to help if I have it. I'll put a list together of complete projects when I'm finished. Thanks for all your help in advance.


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## Tin Falcon (May 22, 2012)

> I have a collection of old Model Engineer magazines and I'm just putting together a a book with some interesting plans and instructions for various models that were published many years ago...... The plans and build instruction were by John Haining and were published in the above mag. between December 1980 and June 1982.



Sounds like copyright infringement to me. better check the laws and rules of this board before proceeding.
Tin


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## Tinkerer58 (May 22, 2012)

I'm not doing this to publish it or sell it, just so I got info on my pc and can print the plans and instructions out for my own use as I want to keep the mags filed away without getting damaged. It's the same as photo copying pages from a book for personal use in you're own workshop. No copyright infringements there as far as I know.


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## Jasonb (May 22, 2012)

But anyone copying the missing article and sending it to you will not be copying for their own private use so could infringe copyright.

J


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## Tinkerer58 (May 22, 2012)

You may have a point there, didn't think of that. Just wonder after 30years if it would still be a problem though if you're not doing it for financial gain and if no back issues going back that far are not available, than what is a man to do???? A bit hard to build something and get it working with bits missing.


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## mu38&Bg# (May 22, 2012)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-Engin...442258401?pt=UK_Magazines&hash=item53ec0863e1

Books and magazines are extremely easy to find on the internet these days. With in demand out of print books, the only thing to watch out for is to make sure you're getting an original not some unauthorized reprint, if the price is too good to be true it certainly is.

Greg


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## JorgensenSteam (May 22, 2012)

If you have ever published a build article in a magazine, or tried to publish an article in a magazine, you will find that the entire process of designing an engine, creating the drawings, verifying the drawings, working up the text part, doing the machining, taking the photos, and then corresponding with the magazine editor for a long time, is extremely time consuming.

The publisher has all of their expenses and overhead also, and so in order for us to keep getting good magazine articles, it is important that the publisher be able to make the money they need to stay in business.

If everyone scans and trades/swaps/sells the magazine articles, then the publishers will be driven out of business in very short order.

I have a large number of scanned magazines, but I have enough respect for the system not to distribute them since that would not be in the best interest of the hobby in general, not to mention it would be illegal. The scans are handy for my own use, especially when I want to read while traveling.

Yes it certainly is tempting to distribute scans, but I would encourage anyone wanting back issues to buy them legitimately from the magazine publishers.
It s not that expensive to buy a few issues.
I have done it, and it is very convenient.


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## Tinkerer58 (May 22, 2012)

Please I think some of you have misunderstood me, and I would like to make it clear that I'm not wanting to infringe on copyrights, I do NOT want to sell or distribute the information, it is for my own personal use in my home workshop. The other reason is I want to be able to enlarge certain details of the drawings as my eyesight is not what it used to be, and it's easier to use a printed sheet rather than have 12 or more magazine issues floating around getting ripped and dirty loosing the information I have collected over many years. 
I thank you for all your help and input and totally agree that we would not want to jeoperdise the businesses of these wonderful magazines and the ppl who put in so much effort so we can continue our hobby, and spend our time in our sheds out of our wives hair. As we all do I just took the path of least resistance LOL. Thanks for putting back on the correct one.
Thank you so much for the link they actually have both the issues I'm looking for.


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## Tin Falcon (May 23, 2012)

Thank you for clarifying. I probably should have asked intent use of information rather that assuming intent to disturbed. 
I too have occasionally made shop copies for personal shop use. I made some copies of the large format Rudy K prints at one point it included digital copies. The next time I saw Rudy I gave him a CD with the digital copies on. He smiled and gave me an addition set of prints for my trouble. 


Tin


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## Groomengineering (May 23, 2012)

I usually scan printed plans into pdf's on my shop computer. Much harder to lose or get all oily, plus the zoom feature really helps my poor old eyes. ;D

Cheers

Jeff


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## Tinkerer58 (May 24, 2012)

No probs Tin, it was probably my Aussie English, and sitting up at night after a hard days work when I should have been gettin some beauty sleep (of which I will need a lot of to get it to work, maybe a comma would help LOL).
I have a computer ready to go into the shop also but have to erase some junk of it first so it can be all mine with all the good stuff on it. (no not girly pics LOL they'd be a bit hard to model in metal, would make an interesting challange though and it wouldn't nag either)


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## Tin Falcon (May 24, 2012)

Well I was reading your post before breakfast ,before the morning coffee was finished. such is life on the internet. Sometimes communication has to be clarified. It is all worked out no ruffed feathers, all resectfull , all good. 
as far as replicating scale models of the female figure I am sure it could be done in clay and cast in bronze. but a little aside from the focus here. 
Tin


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## Dr Jo (May 25, 2012)

For interest: under UK Copyright law (Copyright, Patents and Designs Act 1988), and I believe most other international copyright laws, there is a "fair dealing" clause. Which allows for copying for the following purposes:

a, for private study or research,
b, criticism and review
c, to report current events. 

As to how much can be copied the saying is "it all depends" but the overridding consideration is that it must be fair, i.e. it must not unfairly exploit the rights of the copyright owner. In certain circumstances, copying of the whole of a work may be fair dealing, but not if copying is just more convenient than going to a shop and buying or ordering the work, or if it is just cheaper to copy than to buy. 
---
It would seem to me that what Tinker is looking for would fit clearly under the first provision of for "private study" and the article was published under the jurastriction of the Uk law. I believe the copyright on this design is now held by Neil Tyler: http://darbysavage.blogspot.co.uk/p/gallery.html

Jo


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## Jasonb (May 25, 2012)

I don't Think Neil has the rights to that engine its only the BB1 that he definately does as he's the only one selling drawings and parts.

Brunell sell the K5 (16nhp) engine so some rights may lie with them.

I think some of the wording in Tinkers first post made it seem like he wanted the missing bits and was then going to share all he had with others.

J

PS Tinker, did you get my PM?


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## Dr Jo (May 27, 2012)

Blackgates Engineering back in 2006 were also selling the drawings and castings for the 16NHP engine. 

I can only say good things about Blackgates , I am sure they would dig out the patterns if someone wanted one. 

Jo


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## Jasonb (May 27, 2012)

They still do but only a very limited number of castings.

J


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## collbee (May 31, 2012)

Lol,

Maybe not the right place to post this but............ on the subject of photocopying:

This, to me, had been a practical exercise in interpretation and ongoing warfare, on a daily basis for over ten years.

These were the guidelines I used as I remember them at the time .............................

Under the Australian Educational, research, and private usage privilages - there are certain priorities that may be used for photocopying material. 

For Books and Chapters:

 One chapter or 10% of the pages is allowable. More can be copied if the work is out of print and cannot be obtained in a reasonable time at an ordinary commercial price.

Only one chapter from the published book can be online at any one time.



For Periodical/Magazine articles:

 One article from an issue of a print or electronic periodical can be copied. Multiple articles from an issue can be copied if they are on the same narrow subject.

Hard copy format images and diagrams can be copied and communicated, if they have not been separately published at any time.



Under the Australian provision of "Fair Dealing" for research and study :

10% of the total number of pages or words (if the work is not paginated) or one chapter of the work, whichever is greatest may be copied.


 You may be able to copy more than 10% or 1 chapter under certain circumstances which follow.

One article from a journal issue, magazine or newspaper. You may have two or more articles from the same issue if they are for the same research or course of study.

If you wish to copy other types of material or more than 10% or 1 chapter of textual material, you must consider if your use is "fair and reasonable" under the following conditions: 

why you are copying the work
the nature of the work
the possibility of obtaining a copy within a reasonable time at an ordinary commercial price
the effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the work
if only part of the work is copied, the amount and substantiality of the part in relation to the whole work.

The provision only applies to material being copied for your own research and study. You do not need to be enrolled in a formal course of study, Fair Dealing for research and study also applies to self-directed study and research. 

Hope this adds to the confusion  ........
Collbee.


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