# Sieg X1, Crap or gold?



## Oystein LB (Sep 14, 2011)

New in this forum!

Live in Norway, so far far away!
Teengarer whit big plans, in Railroad scratchbuilding!

Going to school in mechanics and electrodynamics.
Thinking to be a Precision mechanic.

So to my question, Are this machine somthing to go whit, or crap?

http://www.siegind.com/product.php?id=10

Have somone a bether suggestion?

Need to be in Europe.
z


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## lazylathe (Sep 14, 2011)

In my humble opinion it is a bit small.
But if you search the forum you will see that a lot of amazing work has been done on these machines!

I will always go for a machine that is a bit bigger than you think you will need.
That way if you decide to head in another direction you will have the adjustability and not need to upgrade the machine.

The bottom line as always is your budget.
Buy the best you can afford and then learn to use the machine to the best of your abilities.

You can always sell it at a later date and upgrade too.

Good luck!!

Andrew


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 14, 2011)

What are you looking for in a machine.
if you can deal with the humble capabilities of this machine it may work for you. 
how big is your budget and remember rule of thumb tooling will cost about the same as the machine.
what size is your shop space. do you have a heated garage or a closet or kitchen table to work on.
this machine you are looking at is very portable. but the work envelope small. I have a friend that does fantastic work he just scales everything down to fit his machines. He has Sherline machinery. 
typically the small machines are made fast and assembled fast. you the end user will have to disassemble it remove burrs remove chips and gunk reassemble and adjust you may have to make a few parts and may have to install some upgrades. 
I personally started with an x-2.
the Taig and Sherline machines are about the same size but better made in usa quality. But these may be out of reach budget wise for a teen in Europe. 
Welcome to the board. Good luck with your decision and we are hear to help.
Tin


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## Captain Jerry (Sep 14, 2011)

These are good machines within their limited range of travel. As with any machine you will need to learn a lot about set up and adjustment. I have assembled and adjusted both an X1 and an X2 and I don't find any real difference in quality. The X2 has a tilting column and I wish it didn't. That tilt mechanism is a major factor in the column flex that dogs the X2. I never tilt it, I see no reason to tilt it and a lot of effort has gone into reducing the flex and eliminating the need to re-tram. The rigid column of the X1 required some shims to get it trammed but after that it was not a problem. The X-Y table design and adjustment are virtually the same and rigidity is equal but the X-1 has less travel.  The Y axis travel is very different. On the X1, large movement is made with a lead screw and is slower than the Rack and Pinion of the X2 but is much more precise and I never had the head creep down on the X1. The X1 has a quill mounted spindle which is used for fine adjustment and for drilling. It is a much better drilling machine than the X2 which requires you to muve the head up and down the dovetail column with rack and pinion. You must maintain the gib adjustment carefully on the X2 to get smooth travel. On the other hand the quill travel on the X1 is very small (about 1"). You can still move the head up and down with the lead screw to achieve greater hole depth. The biggest drawback with the X1 is the same as with all small mills, you will have a hard time finding a really good vise that will fit. I relied more on clamping to the table with the X1 which increased set up time greatly.

I have never owned or used a Shereline or Taig machine but owners do amazingly precise work with them but there has also been a lot of fine work accomplished on the Unimat S-100 and its cousins. Whatever you have, you will learn to make it work.

Jerry


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## Oystein LB (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks for the help so fare!

This is the best fore smaller work:

http://www.cowells.com/vmm.htm

Smal but good!

The best vile be to bay somthing from her:

https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/index.php?showCategories&cPath=0&

And the work i will do is small! I dont need to have somthing bigger.


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 15, 2011)

the seig machines have good bones. General a little help with the fit and finish and they do a good job. you seem to be content and intent on a tiny machine. If that is the case the little x1 should do well for you. you can certainly higher quality for higher prices. IMHO the seig line offers a good bang for the buck, pound, euro etc. 

proxxon out of Germany offers some nice micro tools . they have a couple of choices in bench top mills the FF230 small @17 kg
and the mf 70  @7kg
Tin


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## waynes world (Sep 16, 2011)

to be honest with you i had a hobbymat md65 and very nice machine acurate as well but it does not take long to out grow them and then your looking for more capacity in a machine.

more ideal to hang back from rushing in to buy a machine that wont be capable of many of the tasks you will want to do . so realy put good thoughts to what your aiming to do and prospective projects in the future, as they say bigger is better. 

wayne


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## HS93 (Sep 16, 2011)

I Had a X1 for about 5 years and they are great, the long bed version is much better than the X2 because it has a quill that moves as the X2 only has the whole head that moves that's about 20 kilo's lifted by a small hand wheel with very Little assistance,the UK X1 has a tilting head that I never used in all the time i had it they can also be converted to cnc, the parts are very cheap and you can handle quite big projects as long as you plan and take it easy , I put the belt drive kit on it after a few years as I use it at 3 am some time I never broke a gear, great machine , I have just changed it for a WM14 from warco in the UK , the X1 has someadvantages one is that the wm14 has a front overhang and I find it difficult to see small cutters but with the X1 it was fine, as with all machines you buy for the size of jobs you have in mind. the arco uro X2 has gone over to the long bed X1 for the X and Y slides and base.


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## Trizza (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm another user of the X1 - in my case, Arc Euro Trade's Super X1L. This one has an extended X & Y axis and a tilting column. It has more travel than the standard X2, in a lighter, cheaper machine. Of course it has less power, so you have to take it slower. As HS93 says, Arc's X2 now uses the table from the SX1L - the difference there is only in the column and head. Those are definitely beefier than the X1.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X1L-Mill

I've had it a few months now and I'm happy with it so far. I haven't got it completely adjusted to my satisfaction yet. I'm very surprised as to how quiet it actually is - I've used it and my lathe (Arc Euro Super C3 - I REALLY like this machine!) at 4am quite a few times with my wife sleeping in the next room. I've been thinking of modifying it to use a more powerful brushless motor on a belt drive.

No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. Shipping costs to Finland were quite reasonable, I thought.


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## Troutsqueezer (Sep 18, 2011)

As for the OP's Subject question, "Crap or Gold?" Neither. Few things in life are defined that sharply. It is what you make it.


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## ironman (Sep 18, 2011)

Trout, I don't know if that would qualify for a Karma or not but that is so true. Thm: Thm:

I have had an X1 since 2005 and did a lot of "TLC" on it and broke a few plastic gears before I realized how important feed/speed is but I use it every day and it does all I ask it to do.

BTW Trout, I bought me 3 of those iGaging remote scales for the X,Y and Z. You still like them?

Ray


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## Troutsqueezer (Sep 18, 2011)

Hey Ray,

I still like the iGaging scales, a lot. They still have the original batteries and I use them frequently. Someone once posted that they can be inaccurate over a certain distance so I checked all of mine with dial indicators and all three of them are right on the money for the full length of travel. You can't find a better deal for that small amount of money, IMO.


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