# Drill Sharpeners



## kiwi2 (Jun 1, 2016)

Hi,
     Has anyone out there tried one of these drill sharpeners. Do they work? It's listed as a Hafco EDBD-13 (D070). I'm not very good at hand sharpening drills and I'm fed up with struggling with blunt ones.
I bought an Eccentric Engineering kitset endmill sharpener which I managed to put together and my end mills are now sharp and a joy to use. I'd like my drills to be the same.
Regards,
Alan C.


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## RonGinger (Jun 1, 2016)

Thanks for the tip on the  Eccentric Engineering sharpening system- its quite and interesting device.

It should be possible to do a 4 facet sharpening of drills on the device. It would require a chuck to hold the drill- I see he offers an ER collet holder- that ought to do a large range of drills.

I bought one of the cheaper Drill Doctor units and returned it- it sharpens by just driving the bit against the wheel with no way to sweep it across- that left grinder tracks across the drill bit- kind of like a serrated knife edge. This unit looks like it does the same thing.


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## goldstar31 (Jun 1, 2016)

I bought the 'plans' and would agree about the concept. Unfortunately, there were no kits available in the UK- at that time.
As far as I can judge- I may be wrong though- there is no facility to hone tools.

Regards

Norman


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## XD351 (Jun 1, 2016)

Yes i have one , it is ok but i found it did not grind drills smaller than 4 or 5 mm equally but that may be an issue with the set up or the collet system they use . You set up the drill in the finger collet using the setting station on the left then transfer to the grinding station and as you  push in you rotate then remove rotate 180 deg then repeat . The more expensive unit Hafco sell uses ER type collets so much more accurat but much more expensive 
I never got around to playing with it as I bought it to sharpen drills for friends that usually butcher them , i do mine on either my T&C grinder or the Harold Hall designed grinder rest which 
allows me to do four facet sharpening .
I regard drills under 3mm or 1/8 as consumable as it is not worth (to me anyway ) fiddling around with them .


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## purpleknif (Jun 1, 2016)

I looked at a "Drill Doctor" and realized I could buy a lot of drills for $120 .


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## goldstar31 (Jun 1, 2016)

My usual setup is a bit 'hybrid' because I have an old Mk1 Clarkson but my two main lathes are ancient Myford's- a S7B and aML10 and therefore I have both ER collets and Myfords which fit my Vertex BSO dividing head which has a Myford nose and takes No2Morse tapers as well.
So I can interchange the lot onto my mill drill.  

I suspect that it all has to do with being born in a thunderstorm a mere 86 years ago. However, it works for me.

Cheers


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 1, 2016)

IMHO  drill sharpeners  that really work and do a good job are rare and expensive. 
hand grinding works but takes practice finesse etc. 
I have one of the older DD500 drill doctors It does the job. 
A new top of the line drill doctor will run about $ 120 -15 depending on where you buy . 

The tormek db 22 attachment is nice but  it is $280 and you need the electric wet stone to use it with.


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## kiwi2 (Jun 2, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like I would be better off practicing sharpening them by hand.
As far as the eccentric engineering sharpener is concerned, I would have the following comments.
1) The kitset isn't all that cheap but I have trouble sourcing small the amounts of steel required to make one from the plans. If you can source bright square stock and plate I would have a go at making one with the plans.
2) The amount of work required to construct it isn't trivial - I'd put it at about the same as making a medium difficulty engine.
3) The sharpener works brilliantly for sharpening HSS lathe tools accurately - particularly 60 and 55 degree threading tools.
4) Sharpening end mills takes a bit of practice. I can grind the primary and secondary angles OK but getting the gashing angle (which is the one which forms the centre of the tool) right is a bit beyond me. (See the video on the eccentric engineering website for an explanation of these terms). I get around this by grinding out the centre of the tool and rely on the cutting edges on the outside of the tool. It means I can't plunge the tool into the work like a drill but I've never done that anyway - I always come in from the side.
I must say I'm a fan of Eccentric Engineering. Before I got his diamond tool holder I was not keen on turning steel as I was no good at grinding the tools properly but the diamond tool holder is a doddle to use and makes turning steel as easy as brass. If you use a piece of round tool steel instead of square you can also get a really smooth finish on wood as well.

Regards,
Alan C.


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 2, 2016)

Doesn't the EE jig do drill bits as well  ???

Tin


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## gus (Jun 2, 2016)

Old fashion hand grinding of twist drills is not that difficult to pickup. There are many YouTube videos on twist drill grinding. I was taught drill grinding in Trade School.


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## mcostello (Jun 2, 2016)

Just to let You know what is possible, I worked in a screw machine shop for a few years. We hand sharpened drill bits all the time. I could sharpen them and get them to cut to around .002-.003 oversize. I could not get them any closer than that. I had a young coworker that could get them to .001 over, sometimes took several tries, sometimes got it on the first try.


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## kiwi2 (Jun 2, 2016)

Hi Tin,
           As it stands at the moment the EE sharpener isn't set up to sharpen drills. The EE website says an attachment to allow drills to be sharpened using the 4 facet method is under development but isn't available yet. I don't understand enough about the method to come up with something myself.
Regards,
Alan C.


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## goldstar31 (Jun 2, 2016)

Perhaps John Moran's GadgetBuilder.com site will give rather more clues. Anyway, a cheap drill chuck as a substitute for collets might suffice. If you think about it, it is for holding drills.

Cheers

N


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## Hopper (Jun 3, 2016)

"Old fashion hand grinding of twist drills is not that difficult to  pickup. There are many YouTube videos on twist drill grinding. I was  taught drill grinding in Trade School. 
               __________________
Gus,the Happy Boat-Fisherman and Happy Machinist.
(Jack of all Trades and Master of None)"

^^^^^ What 'e said.
Every 16-year-old first-year apprentice can sharpen a drill bit correctly. It is not a difficult skill to learn. Perhaps easier to learn firsthand from someone else rather that out of a book or off a video, but still not rocket science.

It may be helpful to get a drill gauge, a piece of sheet metal with the angle of the required cutting edge cut into it, with small graduations to help you get the two cutting edges equal length. 

You can always have a try at sharpening a few larger drills then post pics on here and some of the old hands can give you advice on how you are doing. The closest you can get to firsthand one-on-one instruction.

For drill under about 2mm or 1/16", they can be sharpened easily on a simple oil stone on the bench. There are various drawings available on the net for small, easy to make fixtures that you clamp the drill into  and then rub the whole block up an ddown  your oil stone to sharpen the small drill to a four facet point. 

The number one shortfall I see with beginners sharpening drills is not grinding enough clearance onto the surface behind the cutting edge. This is the number one barrier to easy drilling. No clearance, no cutting. Just rubbing on the flat face. 
So it pays to grind a bit of extra clearance on the "land" like the below pic at angle B




Here is all you need to get started on grinding your own.


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## kiwi2 (Jun 3, 2016)

Hi Hopper,
                  I did a workshop technology course over 20 years ago and was shown how to grind a drill. I got to be just good enough to pass the test but never got good enough to be happy with the results. Could be because I was over 40 and not a 16 year old apprentice.
I agree with your comment about clearance behind the cutting edge. A couple of months ago I bought a 16mm countersink drill from the local hardware store for $15. I thought it was good and cheap until I tried it and found it had zero clearance and was only any good for polishing the edge of the hole I was trying to chamfer. I was only half right when I thought it was good and cheap.
Regards,
Alan C.


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## Swifty (Jun 3, 2016)

For those that have worked for a living in the metal trades, sharpening drills correctly is a necessary skill, honed over many years. But for the home workshop guy that has not had a lot of exposure, it is often a mystery. If you keep a new drill handy and use that as an example when trying to sharpen drills, it will help a lot. Once you have an understanding of the correct angles necessary, it should all make sense. After that it's only a matter of getting both flutes the same so it won't cut too much oversize. I use to sharpen drill from .020" to 3" dia. by hand, but these days I have trouble seeing small drills to regrind them, and the biggest drill that I have now is 1 1/4"dia.

I haven't used any type of electrical drill sharpener at all, so I have no idea how good or bad they are.

Paul.


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## mcostello (Jun 3, 2016)

One thing never mentioned about sharpening drills is that it is really easy to get the first edge perfect. Then it goes pear shaped when You try to make a second edge to match.:fan:


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 3, 2016)

I too learned to free had sharpening drill bits and lathe tools in trade school. At the tender age of 36. 

I guess the bottom line is either pay in time by learning to sharpen freehand  or pay in money to get a  sharpening rig of some sort. 
the drill doctors and the tormek do take time as well and some finesse but I do like the results.
Back in the day WWII  the apprentices had to make there own drill sharpening gage 1/8 steel plate . It was done with layout tools a hack saw files and emery paper to finish.


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## gus (Jun 4, 2016)

mcostello said:


> Just to let You know what is possible, I worked in a screw machine shop for a few years. We hand sharpened drill bits all the time. I could sharpen them and get them to cut to around .002-.003 oversize. I could not get them any closer than that. I had a young coworker that could get them to .001 over, sometimes took several tries, sometimes got it on the first try.




Hi Costello,
Well said. Not too many of us left with CNC Lathes. We were trained in those good old days to hand grind by our meisters. I was taught in Trade School in the early 60s. As long as the drill cuts, we have succeeded and next would be both edges must cut and produce chips. To drill point dead center and both angles equal would a bit of time to achieve.


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## gus (Jun 4, 2016)

purpleknif said:


> I looked at a "Drill Doctor" and realized I could buy a lot of drills for $120 .




US$120 is big money. Good drills will last and last. With good drill care,its not too often you have to grind unless if you have a critical job and broken drills in the job is not preferred. 
Watch the cheapy M.I.C. aka Made in China Drills. The so called TIN Coated Drills are not that great.


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## gus (Jun 4, 2016)

Hopper said:


> "Old fashion hand grinding of twist drills is not that difficult to  pickup. There are many YouTube videos on twist drill grinding. I was  taught drill grinding in Trade School.
> __________________
> Gus,the Happy Boat-Fisherman and Happy Machinist.
> (Jack of all Trades and Master of None)"
> ...



Hi Hopper,

The drill bits issued to us from the Trade School tool counter were in a bad shape. Instructor passed and saw Gus shaking his head at a 1/2'' drill ,walked over and asked if I would like to learn drill grinding. After two sessions and dozen attempts,I was pretty good or rather passable. From there, it became my job to grind worn drills. I did not pick web thinning till later life. After trade school,I went on to study Mechanical Engineering and from there did not do any serious machining.


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 4, 2016)

For those who are interested I am attaching  the link to the Tormek DB22 sharpening jig manual..  FYI I am using mine on a german engineered Scheppach 2500 that is about half the cost of a tormek. Reading it it may seem complicated.  But one you understand the steps it goes quite easily and does not take long to sharpen a drill. And lot of good sharpening advice. 

Tormek DB-22 Manual .pdf
Tin


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## mcostello (Jun 4, 2016)

These were not CNC machines, all Brown and Sharp Automatics. The skill is worth developing as it aids in other areas, such as tool bit grinding.


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## kiwi2 (Jun 5, 2016)

Hi All,
          Thanks for all the helpful comments. It's a shame that the Hafco model I was looking at seems to have received the thumbs down - at a bit over $100 it would have been worth it if it worked.
I think at some stage I'll try to get my head around the four facet method and see if I can come up with a jig for the Eccentric Engineering sharpening system.
Regards,
Alan C.


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## Wizard69 (Jun 5, 2016)

kiwi2 said:


> Hi All,
> Thanks for all the helpful comments. It's a shame that the Hafco model I was looking at seems to have received the thumbs down - at a bit over $100 it would have been worth it if it worked.
> I think at some stage I'll try to get my head around the four facet method and see if I can come up with a jig for the Eccentric Engineering sharpening system.
> Regards,
> Alan C.




If you look around there are a couple, maybe more, sites with sections focused four and six facet grinds.  Ultimately what would be a good idea is to build a tool grinder of some sort.   There are lots of options that have been developed by the model engineering community.


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 5, 2016)

If you google 4 facet drill sharpener you will find lots of pics. 






This site has lots of info  the grinder was a build in the Home Shop machinist mag. 

http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/DrillSharp.html
You may also want to look at harold halls page. 

http://www.homews.co.uk/page354.html






And here is a simple jig that is basically hand sharpening but is based on the 4 facet method. 
Looks easy!! 

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=6480.0

tin


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## kiwi2 (Jun 6, 2016)

Thanks for the links Tin. Do you know what the primary and secondary angles are for a 4 facet drill? I think I can see how to use the Eccentric Engineering sharpening system to sharpen twist drills. It's already set up to grind 2 different relief angles.
Regards,
Alan C.


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 6, 2016)

The several links have good diagrams .  Do not remember off hand IIRC primary is the cutting angle secondary is relief. 
Tin


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## XD351 (Jun 6, 2016)

Have a look at Harold Halls website  - homews.co.uk .
He has some good info on drill sharpening especially four facet .
Primary angle is  8 - 10 deg  secondary around 25 deg but will need to be adjusted to get the chisel edges to line up correctly as you will see from Harold 's website.

It still pays to be able to sharpen drills freehand though as there will come a time where  you just want to touch up a drill and don't want to stuff around setting up a grinding jig .
If you look around on ebay or similar and pick up some old cheap drills to use for test subjects say  3/8 (10mm)  5/16 (8mm) and 1/4 (6mm) then arm yourself with with a little knowledge you may find it is easier than you think .
You don't need fancy gauges for tip angles just use two hex nuts clamped together this gives 120 deg which is close enough to 118 deg to get you by.
If you check your work against a new drill you can compare tip and relief angles etc and make adjustments .
If you mount up some scrap aluminium in your drill press or mill and try your newly ground bit you can see if both flutes are cutting  etc .
I never worry if the hole is a little oversize as i never rely on any drill to size a hole accurately , if i want dead on size and perfectly round i either drill then bore or drill and ream .
The worst thing is if a drill is incorrectly sharpened it will tend to drill triangle shaped holes and it would be just a case of inspecting and regrinding the offending flute .


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## goldstar31 (Jun 7, 2016)

I think that I have found a Reliance drill jig. I probably got it with a heap of other stuff- and promptly forgot it existed.
What remains of my memory, there was once one attached to a Quorn T&C in Model Engineer- but no more.

Despite finding loads of waffle, I cannot find that anyone a set of proper instructions for it. Can anyone help please?

A note is necessary as mine has a welded 'stop' which was done by 'A.N. Other'

Thank you

Norman


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## goldstar31 (Jun 7, 2016)

Since Charles Lamont's kind offer of assistance, I have come across yet another jig. This time it seems that it could be made in the home workshop out of bits of aluminium etc.

Meantime, I have a date in HongKong - for Dinner and then onto Fiji.

Can't say that life at 86 is boring:hDe:

Cheers and thanks

Norman


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