# Using thin parallels



## SBWHART (Nov 22, 2009)

When you need to work close up to the jaws of your vice the parallels can get in the way, so you use thin parallels but these can be a pain to keep in place, so simply slip a coil spring between the parallels to keep then up against the jaws:- like this







Cheers

Stew


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## ttrikalin (Nov 22, 2009)

Nice pointers 

both of you!

tom


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## BAH101 (Nov 22, 2009)

A styrofoam peanut work great too.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 22, 2009)

As far as thin parallels I scrounge steel packing strap and cut to 4' long pieces works for me.
Tin


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## LADmachining (Nov 22, 2009)

Excellent tip Stew - thanks!

This one will definitely come in handy.....

Anthony


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## ttrikalin (Nov 22, 2009)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> There's a guy on here that uses some strange orange foam to hold his parallels apart. I'm not mentioning any names, but his initials are Z.P... ;D



Hmmm.... who could that be... who could that be...


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 22, 2009)

Works well enough but I don't recommend it for at least 3 reasons...

1 Swarf gets into it (not necessarily a bad thing)
2 Soaks up oil (not necessarily a bad thing)
3 Upsets the kids (a pretty bad thing)


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## ttrikalin (Nov 22, 2009)

:big: :big: :big: :big: :big:

Tell me, is this for real or are you pulling our leg?????


tom


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## mklotz (Nov 22, 2009)

If you're a real professional, you use one of these...

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=12576867&PMT4NO=74883644

OTOH, if you don't have $85 lying around, put a drop of cutting oil on the parallel and stick it to the vise jaw. Capillarity is your friend and your parallels will never rust.

Steel banding tape works (as does those stainless stiffeners from worn-out windshield wiper blades) but Zee's urethane foam works the best for me because it doesn't "sproing" out of the jaws at inopportune times.


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## doc1955 (Nov 22, 2009)

Very good tip Stew.
I use this tip on not only thin but all parallels to keep them in place.
Works like a charm only thing if you are drilling on milling a through slot be carful not to hit your spring. :


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## Metal Butcher (Nov 22, 2009)

I have used packing peanuts and springs. These all work well.

Another good way is double sided tape. I use it if I'm doing an identical operation on numerous pieces that require repetitive opening and closing of the vises jaws..

Cutter clearance problems, swarf creep, springs that pop out, compression loss in packing material, All these little issues that can pop up are eliminated.

-MB


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## ChooChooMike (Nov 23, 2009)

BAH101  said:
			
		

> A styrofoam peanut work great too.


Dang, why didn't I think of that !! I've got plenty of those peanuts laying around 

Thanks for the tip


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## rcplanebuilder (Nov 24, 2009)

[Razzing]

OK, I hope you guys are up for a little razzing today....! :big:

Every hobby/career/venue has a few things quirks that drive a guy crazy. lol. 

Being into model airplanes, I find people will spend 30 hours, and 4 times as much money, making something, or will use something totally inferior and lame, even when there is a product that is reasonably priced, and performs flawlessly. And it drives you crazy watching it...lol. :big:  That whole, lead a horse to water dealio...lol. 

For example: R/C model airplane quirk.... A guys spends 1000 hours and $2000 dollars building a museum scale airplane. And he won't buy the $600 dollar engine that runs good, and he modifies a weed whacker engine that he got for $2 at a yard sale, with inevitable results...lol  Come ooooon man! ...OR, they will buy the most expensive engine, and put the cheapest fuel and glow plugs they can find into it.... 

I'm a builder, and I'm guilty too, but there are some things that just don't size up to the real deal...

This one has driven me nuts for 20 years! I've seen hand made wavey holders, zig-zag holders, V-holders, and sets of holders that take up 3 drawers in the tool box! I've now seen packing peanuts, old foam, and springs bound to shoot you in the face when least expecting it.... lmao.... :big:

I don't know how many people I've shown these to over the years, and EVERYBODY things they are SOOOOO COOOL!... But, NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY EVER buys them, because their packing peanuts, and cardboard, and clay, and bubble gum works just fine!  

I've never even seen ANYBODY who owns them besides ME! 





I can zip from 1/4 inch to 7 1/2 inches and never touch the parallels! I can open and close the vice, swap parts, and run 6000 tapped holes, and never touch the parallels. I can clamp a part on the one inch sides, and rotate it to the 6 inch sides and never, ever, touch the parallels. 

Granted, once Kurt bought the patent, the price doubled, but they are worth every penny! I mean, if you can spend thousands on a mill, and many hundreds on a Kurt vice, you really SHOULD buy the one thing that makes life this much easier! Even if you bought a vice at a yard sale... Come OOOON, at least make it easy to use, at ANY opening width!!! lol. 

But, by all means, don't stop, because I get some realllly good belly laughs out of this topic. I have for years, and will for years, of that I have no doubt!  :big: :big: :big:

Please, continue! This is some funny shizznik! lol

Stubborn! ;D

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=12576867&PMT4NO=74976517

[/razzing]

Cheers!


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## Metal Butcher (Nov 24, 2009)

rcplanebuilder.

[razzing back]

All the previos posters presented their idea of a viable solution.

Why use your creativity and imagination to solve a simple set up issue?

Spend (waste) your time browsing catalogs and ordering ridiculously over priced gizzmo's!

Let me know if you run out of ways to spend (waste) your money.

I gladly except donations.

Heck, I might even buy, and use that gizzmo if YOU pay for it! :big:

-MB


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## BobWarfield (Nov 24, 2009)

$85?

Oh come on. Someone make a similar gadget in their shop. You know you want to!

Cheers,

BW


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## ksouers (Nov 24, 2009)

I've found that a small dab of grease or drop of oil works just fine.

And it sure doesn't cost $85 USD!!


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## shred (Nov 24, 2009)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> $85?
> 
> Oh come on. Someone make a similar gadget in their shop. You know you want to!
> 
> ...


I've considered it.. I've got lots of old 1911 recoil springs around, but I don't yet need one often enough to go to the trouble of making one.


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## mklotz (Nov 24, 2009)

As Kevin (and I) pointed out earlier, all you need is a drop of oil and let capillarity do the job for you - plus, your vise and parallels will never rust.

If there's such a category as Yuppie-required machinery, the Kurt parallel holder falls squarely in the middle, right between the combination welder-espresso machine and the designer denim aprons.


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## black85vette (Nov 24, 2009)

Don't know what all the fuss is about. I have always managed to keep my parallels in place cheaply.


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## BobWarfield (Nov 24, 2009)

shred  said:
			
		

> I've considered it.. I've got lots of old 1911 recoil springs around, but I don't yet need one often enough to go to the trouble of making one.



There you go. 1911 recoil springs would be perfect for it!

Cheers,

BW


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## rcplanebuilder (Nov 25, 2009)

:big:

Seeeeee. They are "Sissy tools". lmao. 

Make no mistake. Macguyver has nothing on me, and I am the king of thrift, and love the innovative how to's. 

There is of course a difference between mills being used for a hobby and one that is being used for production, and production tooling. 

I actually only use 1/64" parallels, it's all I own. And I do a lot of put and take parts through the mill. I also use <gasp> coolant! lol. I'm pretty sure a few drops of oil isn't going to hold parallels in place when I am running 800 parts with 3000 drilled holes and 1600 tapped holes , and I have 2 flood coolant nozzles flushing chips through the cross holes. But I can appreciate the simplicity and logic of that, for those who are not using their mill in that fashion. 

As a business item, it really is part of the vice. I can't have chips getting behind, nor beneath the parallels. These things suck the parallels up tight to the back, and down tight to the bottom, so tight that you can't get chips stuck on top, behind, or beneath them. You can also brush out chips from between the jaws, blow out chips with air from between the jaws, and even flood them out with coolant, and still never touch the parallels, or get a chip stuck. 

The economics of them? Well, if you are only making toys as a hobby with the mill, they are pricey I suppose. When you are running a business, the math goes like this. (they were made by SPI, and were like $43 when I bought them in '96 BTW) ...I just packaged up an order for $80 in parts before I sat down here. So, if I bought a set today, they were paid for in one order of 2 items, and will last a lifetime, and make my life easier from this day on... Could I make a set of those telescoping keepers in the time it took me to make those parts I just sold, which are laid out for fast production, on and assembly line? Not hardly. Would the materials be cheaper? Nope. So, for what it cost me to make 2 business items, in time and labor, they are paid for, ...forever, nothing but asset, ...and then I get to write them off too.  

Kinda like justifying a Tap-matic, powered cross slide, and a DRO... For business, or for pleasure? I am now setting up for a job with 3,200 drilled holes, and 1,600 tapped holes. They won't fail once, and I won't scrap a single part from chips under, behind, or on top of the parallels, and they won't float away with the flush coolant. :big: It all comes down to "how many items do I have to sell to pay for the luxury item?" ...In this case it was "One"... Case closed. lol. 

But, I still have to say... When I am not making parts for money, and it's all _*play time *_on the mill, would they be worth it? I can't live without them, they are simply a part of the vice. Hell yeah they are still worth it! If nothing else, make some as a fun project, you won't regret it, especially if you have a whole set of 1/64" parallels, you'll never use anything else. Set 'em and forget em... Trust me ;D. 

I know, I know.... Big business, small business, employee, employer, hobbyist, it doesn't matter. They are "Sissy tools"... :big:

And no, you can't borrow them! 

I have to go make parts now...lol. No more fun and games tonight... (And yes, I do wish I had a Mazak 6200Y for some of my parts, but that's for sissies, lol)

http://www.maidenusammp.com 

Cheers.


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## SKIPRAT (Nov 25, 2009)

Hi All

For what it is worth may i have my say! i thought the purpose of this forum was to share ideas about home metal machining and building model engines and help each other by sharing ideas and in particularly as to how to get round problems arising from about how to do a certain thing .May i quote " There are many roads to Rome " we all have our own way of carrying out operations! its a case of what works for you. I have had quite a few years in industry machining for a living and only wish i have got the machinery i used to have at my disposal in those days but i have not so and there is as i have found out recently there is a difference between HOBBY and PRODUCTION requirements as i have now got to to do the best with what i have using my skills and whatever is available and i have still got to make my first engine 
enough said!!

Cheers Paul


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## BobWarfield (Nov 25, 2009)

Well I'm just an old tool hound who loves the gadgets. Might make one if I get 'round to it. Probably wouldn't splurge for one. Not having much problem keeping the parallels in place at the end of the day.

Cheers,

BW


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## Lew Hartswick (Nov 25, 2009)

SKIPRAT  said:
			
		

> Hi All
> 
> For what it is worth may i have my say! i thought the purpose of this forum was to share ideas about home metal machining and building model engines
> Cheers Paul....
> (snip)



 I agree. The referred post would look right at home on P M site by the owner. 
  ...lew...


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## rog/tn (Nov 29, 2009)

: Why didn't I think of that??
This forum continues to amaze me with it's ingenuity and simplicity.
My thin parallel problem is solved.
Thanks guys :bow:
rog


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## phlegmatic (Dec 15, 2009)

actually I have never had problems with parallels comming off due to coolant? And I nver used more than oil under them? Someting wrong with me?

Also I want to say I agree SKIPRAT, this forum is for the type of metal workers I adore most; the kind that thinks and works hard out of a problem, intead of buying himself a solution like Industry does these days. In the old days when energy was more expensive ppl generally had to be more inventive and thrifty even industry, thats why I love old stuff so much!


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## Blogwitch (Dec 15, 2009)

I have watched this post from the very beginning, when Stew first posted the spring idea. In fact I use that method at times, and it is perfectly satisfactory.

Ok, it might not be the way you like to do it, but if it helps one person to get a job done, then it is a very valid and useful post.

Instead, everyone butted in with 'you shouldn't do it that way, but this way, because it is better'. 

If your way is so much better, then raise your own post about it rather than spoiling someone elses, and making the person feel like horses a**e.

Surely posting is about helping and showing what we do, not contradiction, which seems to be the way with other sites that we all know of.

I will most probably get my b***s chewed off for putting all this in a post, but please, support each other rather than having a pi**ing contest every time something like this comes up.

I honestly think everyone involved should be making personal apologies to Stew for the way you have carried on throughout this post. 

I am sure Stew won't be so quick to give out little tips like this in the future, all because of the way this one turned out.

Your loss, not his.

Blogs


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## Cedge (Dec 15, 2009)

RCbuilder....
We're downright proud your going to be occupied with all those thousands of holes, but this board is a hobby board. Your production rates are less important to most of us than tits on a boar hog. The PM board might be impressed with, both, your gainful professional employment status and your belittling tone, but here it soon gets one at the top of everyones "S- list".

Stew....
Sorry..... I missed this thread until it got a bit out of hand.

Bogs....
Your danglers are quite safe. Thanks for the backup.

Steve


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## Cedge (Dec 15, 2009)

The majority of my work tends to be done using non-ferrous metals. I gained control over my parallels with small magnets on the ends of my vice jaws. It does make for a bit of a mess if I forget them when I switch to cast iron....(grin)

Steve


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## steamer (Dec 15, 2009)

Hey Stew,

Pay no never mind.  MY VN12 mill,60 years young, keeps its parallels in place with the oil too!..dripping from the geared head seals....works great!..(Im not kidding)...and WE make engines...not some sissy thing like sheet metal ski's and plane wheel chocks.

Great Tip Stew!  Thanks for sharing! A karma for your troubles 


Dave


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## BobWarfield (Dec 15, 2009)

Be of good cheer, folks, for 'tis the season. 

Not only that, but if you really want a set of fancy parallel separators, Enco has them in the latest Hot Deals catalog for $39.95. 

If you can scrape together enough stuff to make a $99 order (after all, 'tis the season and you just tell SWMBO to wrap whatever gets delivered to the door 'cause you'll love it when you open it), use HLD99 for free shipping and SAVETEN for 10% off.

Cheers,

BW


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## SBWHART (Dec 16, 2009)

That OK Chaps

I've been quite intregued by the debate the thread stimulated, we all have our own ways of doing things, and its nice to see them aired, and in the airing we all learn something to file away for use when then time comes.

Cheers

Stew


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## rklopp (Dec 19, 2009)

I scored a NIB 6" Kurt parallel keeper on eBay for less than half price . Upon receipt, I found that the hard jaws on my Taiwanese 6" Kurt clone won't fit between the spring tubes :-[. Doh! I guess I'll have to try to hard mill the jaws shorter. Yech :wall:! Maybe a better approach is to get some Kurt hard jaws, making my 50% off bargain into a 200% expensive lesson :'(. At least the keepers will work with the soft jaws in my collection.


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## vlmarshall (Dec 19, 2009)

How hard would it be to make two new connecting strips of longer length? Anything special about them?


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## rklopp (Dec 19, 2009)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> How hard would it be to make two new connecting strips of longer length? Anything special about them?



I'm not sure, but I think the strips are permanently attached to the tubes. It kind of defeats the purpose of buying ready-made if I have to take time to make the blxxdy thing work. Lesson learned...one of many, many, many.


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