# Help with lathe-mill decision



## Tom(ID) (May 6, 2009)

I have been snooping around on this site and see that some people have 3 in 1 machines. I have almost no experience with machining and haven't actually found room for a new machine but I saw a thread where folks were advising a young man to buy a lathe first. I don't think I would have room for a separate mill. SO.. does the mill head on a lathe - mill combo get in the way? I saw one post where Lugnut said he took his mill off and liked it better. I talked to the guy who sold me a scale engine and he said I would hate a combo machine. For a beginner learning machining and making small projects with serious space limitaions what do you guys think? I would probably go with a G056 Grizzly or similar.


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## Metal Butcher (May 6, 2009)

Your question is really tough to answer. You are the only one that can make the right decision. I considered a combo machine vs individual machines before my final decisions to go with separate machines. The lower cost of a small combo machine was very a tempting choice. I think one of the main reasons I decided on individual machines was the limited size of the milling table on a combo.

I was also steered away by others that said a combo machine did neither very well.
There have been vast improvements in combo machines over the years, that disqualify the old belief that they are limited in there usefulness. Today there are more inexpensive choices and much better quality imports available than ever before, in both types of machines.

It might be a good idea to look into the tooling costs, options, and any limitations before committing to either choice.

A mini mill and mini lathe would take up very little room and might be a good place to start.
Many owners of these smaller size machines would not give them up for anything else, and they produce first-class-award winning work.

I have an Asian made 9X20, and an Asian 1 hp mill/drill imported by Enco. I am very pleased with there performance.Both of which sometime seem a bit to small or a bit to large for the size of work (hobby) I do. However, this is only a perception on my part that never stopped me from achieving my goals. 

My machines are a big part of me now, and I considered them to be an extension of my body and mind. I get upset at the thought of loosing one, or the ability to use one, before my time.

Whatever your choose, I hope you enjoy it for a long time, and maybe for the rest of you life! 

-Mb


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## Metal Butcher (May 6, 2009)

I just took a look at the machine you have in mind. Very nice! Not at all what I'm remember about a combo (Its been a long time since I looked).

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-w-Milling-Attachment/G0516

If you go with that choice (and it is a nice choice) You could always add a separate mill later if you desire. I doesn't seem to be much more money than the price of a lathe alone

-MB.


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## rake60 (May 6, 2009)

Welcome to HMEM Tom(ID)!

The 3 in 1 machines can do just about everything.
The problem is, they don't do any of those things very well...

Take your time and shop around.
Check your local eBay and craigslist ads.
For the cost of a new 3 in 1 you can buy a slightly used
small lathe and milling machine.

Rick


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## zeeprogrammer (May 6, 2009)

I faced the same decision 3 months ago...and if you say you have almost no experience...I had none...zilch...zero. Unless seeing machines counts. I went with two separate machines...mainly for two reasons...1) I'm always bothered when something is designed to do a lot of different things. Any one part fails...and you may end up with nothing to do while you wait to fix it. 2) I heard that it's easier to go between two machines than to do the setups on one. I haven't used a combo so I don't know. (But going back to my earlier statement about experience...I probably don't know anyway.)

I've really liked having two machines. As you've noticed...the other considerations are cost and space. The cost difference wasn't enough for me (I bought a mini-lathe and mini-mill...thinking I'll start small until I know for sure. Well I'm sure now.) As for space...it's amazing what can be done. If you like, take a look at my shop in the 'welcome' area. It's a corner in the basement. (Sorry...I haven't learned to do links yet.)

Hope this helps.


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## Maryak (May 7, 2009)

Tom(ID),

Welcome to our forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







			
				rake60  said:
			
		

> The 3 in 1 machines can do just about everything.
> The problem is, they don't do any of those things very well...
> 
> Take your time and shop around.
> ...



IMHO you would be better following Rick's advise. 

A friend of mine bought one and has been frustrated at almost every turn because to change from one to another of the available functions usually means tearing down setups and then resetting setups, if you get my drift.

In the end it's each to their own and good luck with whatever you choose.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Tom(ID) (May 7, 2009)

Thanks for all the advise. I think I know now why my friend told me that I would hate a 3 in 1. He told me that you have to reset everything but that was before I found this site and did alot of reading. When I was in the Navy (many moons ago) I was in the machins shop for a while and at night to kill time I would go down to the shop and fool with the lathe. We had sections of old brass landing craft propeller shaft which I converted into small jars with lids. I think I did pretty good except for the final finish. I didn't ask for help because I figured someone would decide I wasn't authorized to be using the lathe although I seem to remember someone showing me how to grind a tool. This morning I was out in the garage measuring for more space for a lathe.
Tom


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## Foozer (May 7, 2009)

Tom(ID)  said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the advise. I think I know now why my friend told me that I would hate a 3 in 1. He told me that you have to reset everything . . . This morning I was out in the garage measuring for more space for a lathe.
> Tom



The drill press I use, one day its drilling wood, next its metal, at times I'll brave it and pop in a fly cutter to ease up some metal surface (not the best of ideas). Point is, as has been said, nothing begins to become the itch you cant scratch as having to redo setups trying to use equipment for multiple task. A lathe and a mill are as biscuits and gravy. Two separate and distinct items, used together its a wonder, but in a single package, sounds like the makings of a gooey mess.


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## Tom(ID) (May 7, 2009)

Whn I was in HF one day I was looking at milling machines. Actually I look at them everytime I go I since the store is not near by but I remember wondering what the difference is in a milling/drill and a heavy duty drill press? You said you do it but shouldn't. Why? Remember I have never used a mill.
Tom


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## Maryak (May 7, 2009)

Tom,

The head which carries the quill in a mill/drill is designed to handle the heavy side forces involved in the milling operation. A drilling machine, (even a heavy duty one), is only designed to handle the axial loads imposed whilst drilling. There are usually no controllable X and Y axes on a drilling table, and they are always present on a milling table.

Hope this helps. ??? ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## Foozer (May 7, 2009)

Tom(ID)  said:
			
		

> Whn I was in HF one day I was looking at milling machines. Actually I look at them everytime I go I since the store is not near by but I remember wondering what the difference is in a milling/drill and a heavy duty drill press? You said you do it but shouldn't. Why? Remember I have never used a mill.
> Tom



As another post points out, drill press is designed for vertical loads only. Mine, a HF heavy has no provision to lock the arbor in place (draw bar) It can and has come loose when side loads were applied. Even with a good chuck, paid as much for the chuck as the whole press, run out is still an issue. 

Mill is designed for side loads and has a method to lock the tooling in place, mill can be used like a drill press, but a drill press normally shouldn't be used as a mill. I don't have a mill either and I'm not going to run out and get one just yet. There is plenty to learn with lathe work that keeps the mind busy. As the proficiency increases the additional cost of a mill becomes lessoned. And remember its not just the cost of the machine itself, the associated tooling can add up quickly.

Ok 'nuff rambling, just have fun


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## fdew (May 7, 2009)

I knew a great machinist once who showed me a 1.5 in cube of steel, He explained that it was 1.5 in to within .001 in in every direction. I was impressed, then he explained that as his final exam as a mechanist in the British navy he had made it with a hacksaw and a file.

My point is that you can do good work with anything if you are good and you are patient, But do you want to? A little bit bigger machine will be stiffer so you can take deeper cuts, and or get a better finish. A separate mill will have room to clamp parts when you don't want to use a vice. Even if I had to build some sort of flip over bench that would present either my lathe or my mill, I would want separate machines.

Frank


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## prof65 (May 12, 2009)

Hi all, my first post on this great forum, I love it.

Tom,

three years ago I bought the same mill-lathe combo linked above; mine come from Germany, its brand is Knuth. Both machines, like most other on the market, are a Sieg C6 lathe with a Sieg X2 mill/drill column on the bed.

The only weak point (IMHO) of this machine is the table, it's only 9.5" x 4.25", but if you work on small piece 99% of the time (like me) this is not a problem.

Don't worry about set-up for milling or turning; with a bit of practice and a couple of tricks I can change from mill to lathe in a minute, and from lathe to mill in a couple of minutes. You don't need to remove mill column, chuck or tailstock, just exchange lathe toolpost with mill table/vice. I do it daily.

If you will gain more space for your work in the future, you can simply buy a X2 X-Y table as spare part from Sieg and mount the mill column on it; you will have a fully-functional C6 lathe plus a fully-functional X2 mill/drill without waste of money.

If you want more info/advices/pictures about this machine feel free to ask... if you can understand my poor English  (I'm studing... once a week I leave my lathe alone :'( and go to my English course).

Best Regards

Roberto


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## rake60 (May 12, 2009)

Welcome to HMEM Roberto.

Rick


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## sparky961 (May 12, 2009)

As the owner of a B2229 combo from Busy Bee Tools (Canada), also available from Grizzly under another number... I can say that this machine has let me do things I'd never have been able to do before. The lathe portion of the machine is much more useful than the mill portion, however. The main drawback being the lack of a column/knee adjustment.

I have a 6" riser block that needs to be set up for 90% of milling jobs, and then there's only a very small area to work with. Not to mention that it's virtually impossible to make a rigid setup.... or I have yet to learn how with my available resources.

The amount of space it takes up is ok, but this hobby is not for the extremely space challenged. You need room for material, tooling, bench space, machines....

If I were to do it over, I'd prefer two separate machines.

-Sparky


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## Tom(ID) (May 13, 2009)

I have been having second thoughts about the combo unit. I am looking at a small or mini lathe.


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