# Free plans for a larger, simpler, beam engine



## Brian Rupnow

I love Elmers engines, and I love the concept of all the moving mechanisms on a beam type engine.--That being said, after building one of Elmers basic wobblers, I find them, well,--tiny!!! They work, and they work very well, but for new amateur machinists like myself, its almost micro machining. I want a beam engine that is larger, and somewhat simpler to build, and one for which a kit is not needed. I want the parts to be large enough that I can machine them without a magnifying glass, and I want all the parts to be made from bar stock. So--I have taken Elmers beam engine, scaled it up to twice the size Elmer had in mind, and I am doing up a complete set of plans which I will post here. Many of the peices will be simplified, and if someone wants to take any of the parts and fancy them up a bit, that is perfectly fine with me. Stick around, and as I get the plans completed, they will be posted here with full dimensions and material specifications.--Brian


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## malcolmt

Brian  :bow:
Excellent thinking, I will look forwards to your progress. Thank you for sharing this with us.

Kind regards

Malcolm


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## Philjoe5

Brian,
Good for you, excellent idea! :bow: I am in the same frame of mind. I dislike running a tap into metal and trying to imagine that I'm cutting threads (like 2-56). I just did a 1.5x scaleup of a Ray HasBrouck design but I won't post my plans since he's still selling them. But it was a straightforward scaleup - just multiply everything by 1.5x and improvise when necessary. I'm looking forward to your results.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow

Definately a work in progress as we speak. I'm on holidays and its rained all damn week!!! Might as well do something I enjoy--(you'd think I would get enough design work the other 50 weeks of the year). I love this 3D software (Solidworks) and steam engines, so---


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## SignalFailure

If anyone wants Elmer's Beam scaled up by about 1.75x and converted to metric I can supply the plans (I haven't got round to building it yet though!).


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## SmoggyTurnip

Can someone tell me what the advantage of the beam is? I never understood why the beam was used. Why not just connect the piston to the crank with a connecting rod - you have to connect the beam with a connecting rod. Please educate me?


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## Brian Rupnow

SmoggyTurnip  said:
			
		

> Can someone tell me what the advantage of the beam is? I never understood why the beam was used. Why not just connect the piston to the crank with a connecting rod - you have to connect the beam with a connecting rod. Please educate me?


The beam type engines didn't originally turn a wheel. Instead of a wheel, the end of the beam was connected to a plunger in a pipe that pumped water out of the coal mines in Wales. I expect that the wheel was added at a later stage to get rotary motion, as the design of steam engines evolved. Eventually, somebody had the same thought you did, and the beam was done away with.


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## SmoggyTurnip

Well that makes sense! Thanks alot.


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## kvom

Watt's original engine was a beam style mine pump.


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## malcolmt

SignalFailure  said:
			
		

> If anyone wants Elmer's Beam scaled up by about 1.75x and converted to metric I can supply the plans (I haven't got round to building it yet though!).



That would be great. i have been considering this engine for some time.  :bow:

Kind regards

Malcolm


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## CrewCab

Brian and Signal Failure :bow: ................ could be just what my old eyes have been waiting for 

Thanks to you both 

CC


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## bretk

Nice Idea! I too will have my printer at the ready! ;D


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay Guys--Wife has taken grand daughter to the zoo today, so I spent the whole day clickin' and pickin'. The solid model is done, scaled up 50% from Elmers original plan, and simplified for NewBee machinists. You can't see it on the forum, but I can actually make the engine run on my computer, thanks to the magic of Solidworks software. I will be adding detail drawings over the next few days. there are a total of 46 parts in this machine, and 32 of those are "different" parts.


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## Brian Rupnow

First drawing--Let me know if you can read these okay.


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## Brian Rupnow

SECOND DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

THIRD DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

FOURTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

If anyone decides to build this engine, please let me know. I plan on starting it myself, soon as I get all the drawings posted.---Brian


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## CrewCab

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Let me know if you can read these okay.



Drawings are coming through just fine Brian, Cheers 

CC


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## Brian Rupnow

FIFTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

Wife just got home from the Toronto zoo, where she spent the day with 4 year old grand daughter Hannah. A great time was had by all, but Hannah was a bit dissapointed that they didn't have dinosaurs.


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## CrewCab

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Hannah was a bit dissapointed that they didn't have dinosaurs.



There's your next metalwork project then Brian  ........... can't have a disappointed Granddaughter at any cost  

CC


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## Brian Rupnow

SIXTH DRAWING (and dinosaurs are a bit beyond even me--- ;D ;D ;D)


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## Brian Rupnow

SEVENTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

EIGHTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

NINTH DRAWING


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## Dick L.

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> If anyone decides to build this engine, please let me know. I plan on starting it myself, soon as I get all the drawings posted.---Brian



Brian, I'm in on TB2and TB3 but I always liked the beam engine so as time allows I will do one and post my progress.
 Thanks for sharing!
             Dick


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## Brian Rupnow

TENTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

ELEVENTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

TWELFTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

THIRTEENTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

FOURTEENTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

FIFTEENTH DRAWING


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## Brian Rupnow

SIXTEENTH


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## Brian Rupnow

SEVENTEENTH


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## Brian Rupnow

PICTURE REMOVED---DESIGNER HAD BRAIN FART AND POSTED SAME DRAWING TWICE!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

NINETEEN


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY-ONE


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY TWO


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY THREE


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY FOUR


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY FIVE


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY SIX


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY SEVEN


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY EIGHT


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## Bogstandard

Hi Brian,

Just caught up with this post, nice drawings, am just getting them all.

I have noticed 17 & 18 are the same, is there one missing or just overcounted?

John


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## Brian Rupnow

TWENTY NINE


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## Brian Rupnow

THIRTY


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## Brian Rupnow

THIRTY ONE


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## b.lindsey

Very nice drawings Brian...that was always one of my favorites of Elmer's designs. Just curious, what are you using for CAD software?

Bill


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## Brian Rupnow

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> I love Elmers engines, and I love the concept of all the moving mechanisms on a beam type engine.--That being said, after building one of Elmers basic wobblers, I find them, well,--tiny!!! They work, and they work very well, but for new amateur machinists like myself, its almost micro machining. I want a beam engine that is larger, and somewhat simpler to build, and one for which a kit is not needed. I want the parts to be large enough that I can machine them without a magnifying glass, and I want all the parts to be made from bar stock. So--I have taken Elmers beam engine, scaled it up to twice the size Elmer had in mind, and I am doing up a complete set of plans which I will post here. Many of the peices will be simplified, and if someone wants to take any of the parts and fancy them up a bit, that is perfectly fine with me. Stick around, and as I get the plans completed, they will be posted here with full dimensions and material specifications.--Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

wlindiii  said:
			
		

> Very nice drawings Brian...that was always one of my favorites of Elmer's designs. Just curious, what are you using for CAD software?
> 
> Bill



SOLIDWORKS


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## Brian Rupnow

BASE DRAWING


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## shred

Very cool. I can whack 'em all into a PDF if you want.


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## Brian Rupnow

Yes Shred, please do.---Brian


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## CrewCab

Brian you've obviously put a heck of a lot of work into these plans.......... Thank you :bow: very clear and well detailed.

I'm currently making a list of materials required to have a go at this, seems like I need a lot :wall: , ebay is calling methinks.

It all looks do-able from my point of view, but one question ........ to you and all the gang really, any tips on how to bend the eccentric rod accurately.

Cheers

CC


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## Brian Rupnow

CrewCab  said:
			
		

> Brian you've obviously put a heck of a lot of work into these plans.......... Thank you :bow: very clear and well detailed.
> 
> I'm currently making a list of materials required to have a go at this, seems like I need a lot :wall: , ebay is calling methinks.
> 
> It all looks do-able from my point of view, but one question ........ to you and all the gang really, any tips on how to bend the eccentric rod accurately.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> CC



You cold probably get fancy and build a bending jig, but for a one of, its easier to hammer, tape measure, and eyeball it..


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## CrewCab

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> hammer, tape measure, and eyeball it..



That I can manage 

CC


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## shred

I threw the pages into a PDF. This one needs some clean up and a nice title page, but it's a one-stop shop download. Somebody please check all the pages are there-- I'm also open to any page order ideas.

I ran over the attachment limit (it's about 5MB), so here's a link to it on my web site

http://www.shred2.net/~shred/metal/BriansEBeam.pdf


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## Brian Rupnow

Shred---I was fooling around with Mediafire, a free hosting site, and was able to save them as a .pdf zip file, available for download. Thank you for your work , now there are 2 places to download from.---Brian
http://www.mediafire.com/?bexmifnnjlu


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## Brian Rupnow

This is a test to see if I can upload a .pdf file on here. 

View attachment FULL ASSEMBLY.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

Darn---Wish I'd known that the first time around.--Oh well, Ya live, Ya learn!!!


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## Bogstandard

Brian,

For the eccentric rod, I personally wouldn't bother, just tweak to fit when you come to assembly.

If you want to prebend it, you will need two bits of plate half the thickness of the offset. Tape one either side of the rod, with one end of the plate in line with where the bend starts. pop it into a vice and tighten. If the rod is fairly soft, you should end up somewhere near. If not, put thicker plates in and bend until you have your required offset.

See grotty sketch

Bogs


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## zeusrekning

Brian,
Can't you save your drawings in solidworks directly as PDF files? I just noticed this a couple weeks ago. The prints come out much cleaner than when saved as a jpg.Save as then select pdf.
Tim


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## CrewCab

Brian, 
Your pdf files are coming through fine, nice and clear 8)




			
				Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> See grotty sketch



I get the picture though .............. Cheers John 

CC


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## GailInNM

Brian,
Thanks for posting all the great drawings. :bow: I have downloaded,printed and put them in a comb binder. Now I am going over them a little bit. I might even build one before it's over. I normally work in smaller scale, but this is a nice intermediate size that you have chosen. The PDF prints better here, but the JPG's are quite easy to read.
Are you planning to build one soon? 
Gail in NM,USA


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## SignalFailure

Great work Brian! :bow: 

Can we have a metric version please? ;D 
(j/k)


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## Brian Rupnow

Gail--I am on holidays untill the end of next week. As soon as I go back to work, I am going to start building this one. I really hope that a number of people will build this engine and post their progress here.--Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

SignalFailure  said:
			
		

> Great work Brian! :bow:
> 
> Can we have a metric version please? ;D
> (j/k)



Actually, a metric version is only a mouse click away with my software---it will change all the dimensions on a drawing automatically if I ask it to. I may do a metric version if there is enough interest.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Gail--I went back and added the missing dimensions to the cylinder drawing.---Brian


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## tel

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Gail--I am on holidays untill the end of next week. As soon as I go back to work, I am going to start building this one. I really hope that a number of people will build this engine and post their progress here.--Brian



I intend to make one, if only all these people would stop posting good tooling ideas that I 'ave to make.


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## itowbig

brain many many thanks i like the bigger ones. im very new to this great hobby and those smallish engines are hard for me. i thank you very much.


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## SignalFailure

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Actually, a metric version is only a mouse click away with my software---it will change all the dimensions on a drawing automatically if I ask it to. I may do a metric version if there is enough interest.---Brian



Yup, but a program that would convert imperial drawings to 'sensible' metric sizes would be even better ;D


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## laddy

Thank you!!


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## Brian Rupnow

Adam--Sorry, I didn't post the drawings in CAD format, as I work in 3D solidworks, and most people don't have that software.----Brian.


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## old_bones

Many thanks to Brian Rupnow and oldboatguy for the inspiration to build my own beam engine. I made mine about 2-1/2 times larger than the original from Elmers engines. I also used MDF to make some of the frame parts. It runs great and Im pleased with the results. I plan to replace some of the frame parts with turned walnut to give it a more finished look when I get some time. 

Thanks again and keep the ideas coming.


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## fdew

I just found this thread and this forum. I was searching for a beam engine plan.
I like your engine. I would like to play with the model and see if I can convert it to a Watts link model like this
http://www.animatedengines.com/watt.shtml
I am a SolidWorks user. Would you be willing to share your model?
Once finished I would of course share my changes.

If you are willing would you contact me at [email protected]

Thanks


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## ariz

hello to all of you!
I just registered myself a few minutes ago to post my question, but first I wish to compliment with you for this great forum, and with Brian Rupnow for his wonderful work!
and sorry for my english, that isn't so good. I'm italian

well, I'm new to this hobby and this one was my first project in making a steam engine (and making an engine too).
I completed the engine yesterday (after a couple of months, working in the week end), and everything goes right but the piston stroke, that is too long.
the engine can't work in this way, because the beam linkage try to push (or pull) the piston over its capacity
so I'm thinking to short the lever on the crankshaft, to correct for this error, but I'm wondering where I miss to hit right results

anyone completed this engine? I would like to know your experience

thank you


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## ksouers

Hello, ariz.
Welcome to HMEM. You're English is fine.

I'm not familiar with this engine, but I'd start by double checking all the critical measurements. Perhaps the crank throw is too big or the beam isn't equal on both ends. I suppose also the piston could be a bit too long, or maybe the cylinder a bit short. These are just guesses on my part.


Best of luck,
Kevin


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## Maryak

Ariz,

Welcome to our forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Sorry I cannot help with your beam engine stroke but I think those who can will need more detail. ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## kvom

On mine, both the connecting rod and the piston rod are threaded, allowing adjustments on either end. That said, the total length of the stroke will be equal to the length of the crank * 2. Adjustment of the piston rod or connecting rod merely change the range that the piston travels. As long as your crank matches the drawing, I suspect that your problem is the piston hitting the cylinder head or the bottom of the bore, and in either case you can adjust easiest via the piston rod.


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## ariz

thank you for the answers
I double-checked all the critical measures and I found several little errors
but all these little errors make a great error 
the problem was that I'm not familiar with inch measures, because here in Italy we works with metric
so I used my electronic digital vernier caliper (wich converts from one system to the other one) to measure the pieces, working 'in metric' in my mental process
obviously I made several little adjustment, and this is the result!
well, I'll made another crank, more accurate, hoping to solve the problem

just another question for kvom: when finished, does this engine work with compressed air?
do you have a pic of your engine to publish here? :bow:
I'm very curios now about this engine

thank you again


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## kvom

Yes, engine does work on compressed air. My build thread is here: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2850.0

Pics and a video at the end.

I hope to see yours working soon.


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## ariz

it wooooooorks!!! it does run!!!!!!!!

what an emotion, to see it running on compressed air for the first time...
I didn't believe to my eyes

it runs very smoothly, on high and low rpm

thanks a lot to Brian Rupnow for his fantastic plans, to kvom for his support and to all of you for this great forum



well, what can I do now?
hummm... I need another good project to work on


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## Maryak

Ariz,

Congratulations on a successful build. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Brian Rupnow

Ariz---Congratulations on your build. If you have any video of it running, we would all love to see it.---Brian Rupnow


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## ariz

thank all of you

I'm sorry, but I have to organize me to make a video... my cam seems to have some problems
hope to do it in the next days

for now I'll post some pics of the engine. it is my very first engine, so it could be not so perfect in every detail, but I hope to get better results with time and experience
















and this is my poor shed






the mill is the common X2, while the lathe is a very old Boley
it can be seen also here: http://www.cauzzi.it/boley/index.htm


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## Brian Rupnow

Ariz--A beautifull job. Thank you for posting the pictures. It always makes me feel very good when someone uses the plans that I post.---Brian


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## rake60

Great build ariz!

I gotta love the lathe!
70 years old + and still earning it's keep.
I don't want to derail this thread so please do a new thread about it 
on the tools board. I have lots of questions to ask about it!

Rick


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## deere_x475guy

Ariz, looks great.

Brian I just printed out the PDF and put it in the binder. I have all the materials but the brass for the cylinder. I think this will be my next build.


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## deere_x475guy

shred  said:
			
		

> I threw the pages into a PDF. This one needs some clean up and a nice title page, but it's a one-stop shop download. Somebody please check all the pages are there-- I'm also open to any page order ideas.
> 
> I ran over the attachment limit (it's about 5MB), so here's a link to it on my web site
> 
> http://www.shred2.net/~shred/metal/BriansEBeam.pdf



Hi gang does anyone know if the link above that I just downloaded is the latest and greatest. I thought I read that some cylinder dimensions were added later but now I can't find the darn thread. Maybe I was on some drugs or something.. :


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## Brian Rupnow

All the drawings are there. I made them. Just check and make certain that the thread in the piston and on the piston rod read 5-40. If you see any problems, please let me know right away so I can correct them.---Brian


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## deere_x475guy

Thanks Brian, I want to at least get the base done this weekend. It will be 1/2 inch because I don't think I have any 5/8ths.


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## RobWilson

Hi Brian is it possible for you to post the solid model file
Thanks Rob.


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## Brian Rupnow

This link should get you to an ftp site download of all the solid models  ---Brian
http://www.mediafire.com/file/xcay4zted5m/SOLIDWRKS MODELS AND DRGS-BEAM ENGINE.ip


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## RobWilson

Many thanks Brian, GREAT WORK ;D
Rob


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## beeswax721

Brian,very nice set of plans,cant wait to get started.


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## ariz

hi!
my video cam is definitely gone, so I tried to make some movies with the photo camera
but they are short and quality is very low
also because I was 'controluce' - in front of the light... a discussion with my son didn't convinced him that we were in a wrong place :-\

however, here they are

<embed src="http://www.cauzzi.it/ftp/MVI_0027.avi" autoplay="false" hidden="false" loop="false" type="application/mediaplayer" wmode="transparent" width="350" heigth="425"></embed>

<embed src="http://www.cauzzi.it/ftp/MVI_0028.avi" autoplay="false" hidden="false" loop="false" type="application/mediaplayer" wmode="transparent" width="350" heigth="425"></embed>

<embed src="http://www.cauzzi.it/ftp/MVI_0029.avi" autoplay="false" hidden="false" loop="false" type="application/mediaplayer" wmode="transparent" width="350" heigth="425"></embed>

they are *.avi files... is OK or I have to convert them to mpeg?


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## Brian Rupnow

Ariz--Very, very nice. Congratulations. I love it when people build from my plans and things work out so well.---Brian


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## deere_x475guy

Ariz, nice job on the build, congratulations. I do have one guestion. On Brians plans part #14 is the piston rod guide and I didn't see that on your build. Did you do this intentionally? It appeared you had drilled the hole for it but never used it. I was thinking about eliminating this part also but questioned if it was actually needed. Looks like yours if running great without it.


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## Brian Rupnow

Without the piston rod guide, the action of the link at the top will try to kick the piston rod sideways, and cause rapid wear of the cylinder head where the rod passes though it. This will let air pressure escape around the piston rod. Probably not such a big deal on these little engines, but on a bigger engine that was actually required to do some work this could really affect the efficiency of the engine. Go ahead and use the piston rod guide, but open the hole up a few thou. so that the rod doesn't bind over the length of its travel.---Brian


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## deere_x475guy

Thanks Brian, for various reasons I haven't started on the engine yet. I will keep your recommmendation in mind when I build it.


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## deadin

Brian,
I have the flywheel and the eccentric made and went to make the other bits and I may be going blind, but I can't seem to locate where the specs for the crank and flywheel shaft are in the plans.
I suppose I could guess at it, but I would rather not. ;D 

BTW, I just completed your Hit/Miss. (almost! the little fiddly bits in the governor are driving me nuts) 
It runs like a champ!! 

Dean


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## Brian Rupnow

Dean---Maybe I just totally screwed the pooch and forgot to put that sheet in the plans. Here it is--- 

View attachment SUB ASSEMBLY OF CRANKSHAFT.PDF


View attachment SUB ASSEMBLY OF CRANKSHAFT.PDF


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## deadin

That's it!!  Thank you, thank you :bow:. :bow:


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## Brian Rupnow

Back in 2008 when I built this engine, I posted a link to a video of it running. Over the years I have had numerous people email me from all over the world, telling me they would love to see a video of it running---But somehow Photobucket lost the video and the link no longer works. Today I made a new video of the engine running, and its a great video---Only problem is that since it has been 4 years since I built it, some of the brain cells have died, and in the video I say that it is 1 1/2 scale. Thats not right---It is twice the scale of Elmer Verbourgs original design.---Enjoy!!!


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## mnay

Brian,
thanks for sharing you efforts with us.  I am sure many will be built.
I like bigger models too, nothing smaller than a 4-40 thread.
Mike


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## lennardhme

Many thanks Brian. I would certainly like the dimensions in metric pleeese!
Leonard


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## Brian Rupnow

lennardhme said:


> Many thanks Brian. I would certainly like the dimensions in metric pleeese!
> Leonard


Leonard---Multiply all the inch dimensions by 25.4!!!---Brian


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## peatrich

The difficulty with multiplying by 25.4 comes when I try to find a 3.175mm drill amongst my tools. Drill conversion seems, to a newby like me, to be virtually impossible. The 'numbered' drill sizes mean nothing to me as I have a garage full of metric tools and don't know the equivalents


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## mygrizzly1022

Peatrich... have a look here handy chart   http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/DecEquiv.php

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/NumberDrillSize.php   and if you dig a little deeper into the site a letter dril chart is there as well....rbt


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## peatrich

Excellent - thank you


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## lennardhme

Brian, 
I have all the conversion charts but its not simply a matter of multiplying by 25.4. All my tooling is metric & my builds are very slow due to having to convert hole, bush, drill, reamer sizes etc, & ensure the matching parts fit. 
Unfortunately I'm too old to be learning a cad program let alone the time to use it - much rather be doing a build. I envy those that can knock up a set of drawings as you have done, & thanks for that.
Leonard


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## Brian Rupnow

lennardhme--I know its a bugger, trying to convert from British Imperial to Metric or vice versa. I'm a design engineer, and all I learned in school was British Imperial, feet and inches. I went to work in 1965 and used it daily untill about 1974, when the decree came down that Canada is going Metric. It was 5 years before anybody in Canada knew how long anything was, how much anything weighed, or what the temperature was outside. Many still don't!!! To complicate matters, USA, our biggest, closest, trading partner didn't go Metric. You can't buy metric steel in Canada, without paying a really big premium. Metric tooling still costs much more than Imperial tooling. Bah!!! Humbug!!! It sucks brother, but thats the way life is.


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## lennardhme

Yep, but it keeps the old brain ticking over. After all this time in Oz. we are still only half metric. Buy a piece of wood & it will be 19mm [3/4"]  x  1.7meters [for instance]
I'll spend a few weeks doing the conversions.
thanks - let you know when its running.


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## oasanti

Hi, excellent place to share information. Other possibility to convert inch to mm is (as i read many time ago) multiplying  for 32, not 25,4. You scale up the proyect 25% but the operation and numbers are easyer to get. 1/8" x 25,4 = 3,175 mm, or 1/8" x 32 = 4 mm (32/8),  1/16" x 25,4 = 1,5875 mm or 1/16" x 32= 2 mm (32/16). Sorry for my english, I´m from Argentina


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## lennardhme

Oasanti,
Nothing wrong with your English at all & your conversions are even better.
thanks for that,
cheers,
leonard


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## TNvolute

Excellent tip Oasanti.  I'm new to the forum but have been in machining a long time and that is a new one for me.  Thank you and your English is MUCH better than my Spanish!

-Jerry


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## ccstudent

this is awesome. thank you brian!!! everything is so clear and very well laid out for us newbies. when i get back to california in december i might have to try this at my buddies house!


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## incawannabe

when converting from millimeters to inches i always multiply the metric# by .03937 and have never been disappointed  as an example 22.013mmx.03937=.86665".   works every time


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## TNvolute

I just type 25.4 into my scientific calculator, hit the reciprocal (1/x) button and store the result  which is the constant that shown above carried out to more decimal places.  After that, I type in the mm dimension x MR (memory recall) = and get the result which I round to the precision needed.  Takes longer to tell than do but cuts down a lot of button pressing.  You can just divide 1 by 25.4 and store the result in a dollar store calculator that has memory and accomplish the same thing.  Of course, I have several scientific calculators that I bought at the dollar store, amazing!


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## RonP

Hi Brian,  I am getting back to modelling again after our earthquakes and would love to build your Bem engine. Can you advise where I can source metric plans for it please. I have tried other sources but no luck as yet.
Thanks Brian.
Cheers
Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow

RonP said:


> Hi Brian,  I am getting back to modelling again after our earthquakes and would love to build your Bem engine. Can you advise where I can source metric plans for it please. I have tried other sources but no luck as yet.
> Thanks Brian.
> Cheers
> Ron


 Sorry guy---I don't have metric plans.


----------



## bazmak

YES PLEASE Signal Failure i would love a set of plans,whats the best way to obtain the plans. BAZMAK


----------



## avbates

Me too please
Regards
Tony


----------



## Chriske

Brian Rupnow said:


> This link should get you to an ftp site download of all the solid models  ---Brian
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/xcay4zted5m/SOLIDWRKS MODELS AND DRGS-BEAM ENGINE.ip



Hey Brian,

Could you convert this assembly to STEP or STP format.
My CAD program failed to open your files.

Thanks

Chris


----------



## RonP

Hello, yes I would appreciate a copy of your updated plans.
Cheers
Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Go back and take a look at post #61---A link to all the drawings as pdf files is there.  There is also a link to the solid models and drawings in Solidworks in post #127 above. I do not have the plans in metric. I am not going to save them in some other format. If you seriously want them in some other 3D format, then download the pdf files and create your own solid models from them. That way you will be able to generate drawings in either British Imperial or metric.----Brian


----------



## Laveolus

Hi, Brian -
Just joined the forum, having just yesterday completed building your beam engine - which I hasten to add actually works! Very satisfying to make something just from the drawings (even though they're in Imperial). Just a couple of observations:
a) The cylinder does need a cover to mask off the holes that feed the air / steam through to the cylinder from the valve chamber. It also needs some depth to accommodate a feed pipe.
b) Slight change - I added a brass insert to the centre bearing on the beam to improve wear properties. OK, it isn't gong to run continuously for years on end, but still, it's not that difficult to do. 
c) Some notes on timing would be appreciated, although I did manage to get it running using soemwhat empirical methods. Yes, I guessed at it, then twiddled for maximum oomph.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




d) I did change all the screws to metric. 2-56 becomes M3;  #10 converts nicely to 5mm, and 1/4" becomes M6.
I may get to work with AutoCAD and produce some metric drawings for the folk who work outside of the US.
Thank you very much for your drawings. It was fun making the engine! A rather fuzzy photo is attached.
Eric


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Laveolus---Glad to see that it worked for you.---Brian


----------



## RonP

Hi Laveolus, thank you for your interesting resume of your build of Brian's beam engine. I couldn't find your photo and would appreciate a copy if you may. I am working on other projects bur I do plan to build this one - it looks just fine. Thank you, Ron


----------



## Laveolus

Hi, Ron -
It was certainly fun making that engine, especially as I worked entirely from the set of drawings, and no notes so that I was able to figure out how to set things up and machine the parts. That's the fun part - figuring things out. Although I live in California, I am actually British, so I tend to work in metric. One of the most annoying characteristics of the Imperial system (at least as practiced by Americans) is to have several measurement systems on the go simultaneously - like fractional (ugh) and decimal inches, and not even to mention the stupid system they use for drills (numbers, letters and fractional). As it turned out, the quick method was to work in the original Imperial, but convert all the screws to metric.
I don't kno what happened to the photo. It's probably related to the 'manage attachments' thingy, so I fear it's gone wandering off into the vast hinterland of the internet, all alone and uncared for. I shall try again. Apologies for the fuzzy photo, but it does give an idea of how the engine finishes up. I ended up making the flywheel out of brass - at great expense. The online metal supplier that I use is very good, but the minimum length of 5" dia brass was 1", so I had to get creative and saw it in half. That was an interesting excercise in itself! Now I need another engine with a 5" flywheel...


----------



## kiwi2

Hi Brian,
              I'm not sure I'm following the right procedure to ask you a question in this thread but here goes. I've managed to make the flywheel and the beam assemblies and am now ready to start on the cylinder. I think I've got my head around how the valve works but I'm a bit confused about the two 2mm holes connecting the valve cylinder to the main cylinder. Are these blocked off between the valve cylinder and the outside? If they aren't, wouldn't the air just vent to atmosphere rather than acting on the main piston? I'm assuming the air is introduced via the .188" hole into the valve cylinder and that the .125" hole into the side of the valve cylinder is the exhaust for the upward stroke and that the open top of the cylinder acts as the exhaust for the downward stroke. Sorry if I appear a bit ignorant but this is the first engine I've made apart from a wobbler type.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Kiwi2---I had to get the engine down off the shelf and have a look. Its been a few years since I built this engine.Your assumptions are all correct. You can see the plugs I silver soldered into the outside of the cyl. body in this picture.---Brian


----------



## Laveolus

When  built my version, I made a cover for these ports, which also gave me enough thickness to drill & tap an inlet hole to supply the incoming air. You can just see the supply pipe on the photo above. Not that I don't trust my silver soldering, of course! It's a nice engine, and a good size, too.
Eric


----------



## jwcnc1911

Brian,

I like your design and your drawings!  I am accustomed to reading very complicated prints and I prefer to do one part per page.  I often have to split prints up to make it easier to read.  Simplicity is prime for people who are new, inexperienced or just a little slower.


----------



## kiwi2

Thanks Brian and Eric - the information is much appreciated.
 I used to silver solder everything myself but have been having a play with flux cored tin/lead solder for parts that don't require the strength of silver solder. It's a lot easier to use and by applying the liquid flux with a toothpick I can accurately control where the solder goes. I reckon that for most purposes (such as plugging the valve cylinder) it works just as well. It's a lot cheaper too.
Regards,
Alan


----------



## kiwi2

Hi,
    Here are a couple of pictures of my version of the beam engine. I couldn't source any 5/8" aluminium plate for the base but I did have some 1/16" brass plate so I made a mahogany base and attached the various engine components to the brass sheet which was inlaid into the wood. Apart from anything else I like the look of brass and mahogany together. I then had to raise the level of all the components and add the bearing block behind the piston assembley to hold the axle for the valve rockers. I didn't install the piston rod support as I didn't think I could get the hole lined up accurately enough not to hinder the operation of the piston. The hole would need to be a close sliding fit for it to make any difference and the thought of positioning it exactly in line with the piston rod hole in the cylinder head put me off it. If I had to have the piston rod support I would solder it to the top of the cylinder head and run a reamer through the two holes to ensure they were in line. As it turns out, the support doesn't seem to be needed for the engine to run.
I had a lot of trouble with the flywheel. It is made of steel and during the final dressing it started to sing in the lathe. This vibration gave the rubbish finish you can see on the flywheel. I tried all sorts of things to get a decent finish (fine cuts, deep cuts, high speeds, low speeds) but nothing seemed to make a difference. Oddly, it's only the front side that it happened on. The other side is fine. I have recently sourced a heap of  130mm x 5mm brass bar ($10/kg from a scrap dealer). I'm in the process of making a flywheel from this by soldering two pieces together which is going quite well.
The engine runs well at about 5psi and developes a respectable torque at 15psi so I am quite pleased with its operation. I've set the piston to be at its mid point when the valve is at its extreme i.e. they are 90 degrees apart. Is this correct? This is the most complicated engine I have made so far and I'm looking forward to starting a new project.


----------



## elefant_man

I don't know if any one is still interested but please find MM conversion of the plans at the link below they are zipped and PDF format.

I normally lurk about and don't post but saw that a while ago people were asking for metric plans for this. So in the interest of giving back I took 15 mins of my time to convert them for people.

I even had to register to post the link 

I have only converted the dimensions so all the threads etc are as they were and I have not changed the spec of any of the parts so the dimensions might seem a little precise like 48.26mm instead of 1.9" etc.

If there are any problems with the conversion let me know and I will address any issues.

This looks a great little engine and I may have a go myself if I ever get the time. The OP did a great job with the model and drawings.

http://www.01space.co.uk/STEAMENGINE/BEAM TYPE STEAM ENGINE MM CONVERTED.zip


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Elefant_man--Thank you for the metric conversion. I am the original poster, and from what I am able to tell, this engine has now been built in just about every major country around the globe.----Brian


----------



## Laveolus

Strangely enough, I went the other route and worked to the original drawings in Imperial, but converted the threads to metric. As it happens, the metric sizes are pretty close to the Imperial sizes, although I used drill & tap tables to get a closer fit when drilling. So, I found that 2-56 becomes M3 x 0.5; 10-24 becomes M5 x 0.7 and 1/4-20 becomes M6 x 1.0.
Other changes I made were to make phosphor bronze bearing sleeves for the flywheel / crank assembly. They're secured by M4 set screws, which can be removed to reveal oiling ports for the bearings.
The great thing about this engine is that it's big. Don't need o be a watchmaker to build it, but it's still within the capabilities of very modestly sized lathes and mills - although I have to admit to having a 5" 4-jaw chuck for my little 7x10 Harbor Freight lathe.
Eric


----------



## wagnmkr

I am brand new to small engine building and this forum.  I have decided to have a go at this one as my first steam type engine. Thanks Brian, for the plans and all the help you have given folks with their builds.

Cheers,

Tom


----------



## motoseeya

I am trying to build this engine I don't have any brass so I'm using aluminum and steel I hope it will work, If it does I will order some brass and remake those parts it has been fun so far and a good learning experience.


----------



## motoseeya

O ps I want to thank you for plans. I can't do those small builds my eyes ant that good any more  just to old need big things.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Motoseeya--I hear you, my friend. That was why I took old Elmer's plans and blew them up. I find it almost impossible to work with things much smaller than what you see on the plans I made.---Brian


----------



## motoseeya

does any body know if someone has done a bigger grasshopper in larger plans I would like to try that one I love to watch all the moveing parts.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Motoseeya--If you want to build a larger engine, with lots of visible moving parts, try this one. It has everything you are looking for plus a download link to all of the plans.---Brian
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/overcrank-single-cylinder-engine-14770/


----------



## motoseeya

Thanks for info on engines and I got my beam going and it runs good it's my first build did a vid but can't get it on site but I wanted to thank again for plans.;D yes it's ear to ear


----------



## Walltoddj

Thanks for all the work you put into the drawings and posting them for all of to use. I've started doing my drawings in Acad and found it's easier to use both dim english/metric the biggest problem is to not get over complicated so that it's hard to see what you need without getting confused. Keep up the good work.

Todd


----------



## md_zaid

Hello everybody! Just discovered this forum and I couldn't help but sign up for it. It is so awesome. And Brian's plans caught my eye. I wish to build this engine out of timber. I am a newbie in this fieldi(first year student for undergraduate degree). Any tips from you guys would be very helpful. And one more thing, can anybody explain me the mechanism of exhaust in there plans?


----------



## rayaline

please help me to find a mini v8 engine model plan... please... please help me on my project... please..


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Rayaline---The person you need to talk to is Steven (or Stephen) Hucks. He sells a complete set of small V8 plans. He posts on this forum, or just Google his name to get in touch with him.


----------



## bazmak

Hi Brian, i have gone as far as i can with lathe mods so would like to start a model.I have choosen the beam engine for exactly the same original reasons
as you.Due to very limited supply of matls in this neck of the woods i may have to tweak a few things,but thats half the fun.As to upscaling and thread sizes etc. As an apprentice in the early 60s one project for the apprentice school
was to build a half size metric replica of one of the company products a breadwrapping machine.The basic formula was to divide by 2 and then up/down
size to suit stock matls,screws and tooling.Sounds simple but is it . ? Same still applies.My last loco i used mainlly std metric screws but imperial for ME pipe fittings.Not the ideal way but you have to use whats available.I remember
ordering a 10 BA tap and special hex HDS only to break the tap at the first try
Now its metric sock hds.Hope i can print off your drawings and make a start
MANY THANKS Bazmak


----------



## bazmak

Hi Brian, and everybody,i have just started this project and downloaded
the set of plans and filed them nice and neat in a ring binder
I am making a number of changes for cost and availability etc of matls and
tooling etc.All threads will be metric and matls what i can source with a no of design/dim changes if all goes well will start a thread under Bazmak and will
keep in touch with this thread.Got the missing drg Brian thanks
Regards barry


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Good luck Bazmak--People all over the world have downloaded the plans and built that engine.--Brian


----------



## GKNIPP

Can someone please direct me to the PDFs for this engine.  I've gone through the downloads section 3 times and I'm finding everything but.  Thank you in advance


----------



## Brian Rupnow

GKNIPP---Send me your "real" email address and I will send you the complete set of files.---Brian   [email protected]


----------



## Swifty

They are also available here http://www.shred2.net/~shred/metal/BriansEBeam.pdf

Paul.


----------



## GKNIPP

Thank you for the prompt responses.  Brian, I just love your CAD work as well as your machining abilities.  Currently I'm putting together the materials, fasteners, etc... for your latest creation, hit-n-miss with governor.


----------



## Cogsy

The Rupnow Hit and Miss is a fun engine to build and runs a dream. I'll be following your build log if you do one.


----------



## Theclockworks

SignalFailure said:


> If anyone wants Elmer's Beam scaled up by about 1.75x and converted to metric I can supply the plans (I haven't got round to building it yet though!).



I to would like to build this scaled up beam.


----------



## rc87woody

Not finished yet. I’m working on it in my free time.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I started this thread 12 years ago, and people are still building from it. It was so long ago that I had to look at the date on the drawings to see what year the plans were drawn in.


----------



## stragenmitsuko

Thank you for also posting the solidworks model . 
I'm about to start to learn solidworks and this 'll give me something to study . 

Been a 2d designer all my life ( a'cad , draftsight ... ). But now , it's time I started learning 
something new wich can hopefully be used to 3d print patterns for castings and maybe 
to generate g code for a cnc router . 

pat


----------



## rc87woody




----------



## goldstar31

Brian Rupnow said:


> The beam type engines didn't originally turn a wheel. Instead of a wheel, the end of the beam was connected to a plunger in a pipe that pumped water out of the coal mines in Wales. I expect that the wheel was added at a later stage to get rotary motion, as the design of steam engines evolved. Eventually, somebody had the same thought you did, and the beam was done away with.



Wales? No not really.  
Tin mining was England's important export from pre-  Roman times. We had a Bronze Age long before this.
The problem was the flooding of the Cornish tin mines as miners dug deeper.  The copper mines in North Wales stopped as the little boys who were the miners hit salt water.
As for coal mining, THREE inventors- Stephenson, Hedley and Hackworth were born  in the same area around Wylam on the River Tyne. So was I- no matter! but again it was water flooding down both hillsides and obviously exacerbated by the Great Whinsill Dyke or fault on which Hadrian's Roman Wall was built much earlier.

When I did my commercial studies, we discussed Maudsley and his slide rest which revolutionises machining and our lecturer quipped about leaking pistons from bad bores and stuffed with the foreman's felt hat. 

As for coal mining, I live on what were the coal seams.  The bungalow is on a concrete 'float' which is more than can be said for the 'family castle'- which was undermined mined for coal- and fell down.
Somehow in the family history is the information on  a painting of the first steam engine crossing the Border Bridge between  England and Scotland. It's not quite true as Berwick on Tweed is now in England but is still at war with either Germany or Russia. 
The painting?  I have it


Norman


----------



## Richard Hed

goldstar31 said:


> Wales? No not really.
> Tin mining was England's important export from pre-  Roman times. We had a Bronze Age long before this.
> The problem was the flooding of the Cornish tin mines as miners dug deeper.  The copper mines in North Wales stopped as the little boys who were the miners hit salt water.
> As for coal mining, THREE inventors- Stephenson, Hedley and Hackworth were born  in the same area around Wylam on the River Tyne. So was I- no matter! but again it was water flooding down both hillsides and obviously exacerbated by the Great Whinsill Dyke or fault on which Hadrian's Roman Wall was built much earlier.
> 
> When I did my commercial studies, we discussed Maudsley and his slide rest which revolutionises machining and our lecturer quipped about leaking pistons from bad bores and stuffed with the foreman's felt hat.
> 
> As for coal mining, I live on what were the coal seams.  The bungalow is on a concrete 'float' which is more than can be said for the 'family castle'- which was undermined mined for coal- and fell down.
> Somehow in the family history is the information on  a painting of the first steam engine crossing the Border Bridge between  England and Scotland. It's not quite true as Berwick on Tweed is now in England but is still at war with either Germany or Russia.
> The painting?  I have it
> 
> 
> Norman


That's very interesting.  Can you explain more about this:  It's not quite true as Berwick on Tweed is now in England but is still at war with either Germany or Russia. 

When you say "Cornish" I thot you were talking about Cornwall which is in South of England, correct?  But the rest of your post you are talkking about much further north, Hadrians Wall is North of Yorkshire, right?  Apparently Cornish refers to some place else than I Always thot.


----------



## goldstar31

Cornwall is actually West and was as I said the scene of tin mining from ancient times. Richard Trevithic is your man if interested. 
I live in Newcastle upon Tyne which was the border in Roman times and separated the Picts and Scots- from civilisation
But the border changed MANY times and there was a Roman border- in what is Lowland Scotland. It was a turf one whereas the wall buikt by Emoeror Hardian was essentially of stone. In fact the Four Foot eight and a half inch railway gauge is the Roman chariot wheel width copied by the Wylam engineers
Berwick on Tweed was 'no mans land'  We taught the Wild West 'cattle rustling', The Norsemen or Vikings cam and taught 'rape and pillage'. The Moss troopers taught us how to distill whisky.
So Berwick changed its boundaries and when Britain declared war( as it often did), the signatories were England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland( all of it) and Berwick on Tweed.  When peace was finally signed, it  was 'back in England- and forgotten about.
One of our greatest writers was Sir Walter Scott who wrote the Border Ballads.  One of ballads w ent something like this 'Lock the dorr Lariston, Lion, Lion of Liddesdale' and sort of finishes 'England shall many a day, tell of the boody fray, when the Blue Bonnets came over the Border. My late wife was a 'Liddell' and so surprisingly was 'Alice in Wonderland'. 

So there you have a very potted version. I could go on about the. druids and 'cup and ring' markings. 
I was sort of brought up amongst Bronze Age skeletons- and my village was the scene  of the first steam turbine.
Laughingly, I was a National Park warden for Northumberland and a founder of the first civilan mountain 
rescue team. 

Enough for one day?


----------



## BaronJ

[QUOTE="Richard Hed, 
When you say "Cornish" I thought you were talking about Cornwall which is in South of England, correct?  But the rest of your post you are talkking about much further north, Hadrians Wall is North of Yorkshire, right?  Apparently Cornish refers to some place else than I Always thot.
[/QUOTE]

Hi Richard,
Cornwall is about as far west as you can get in the UK but its also about as far south as well.  Norman lives a bit further north of me up in Newcastle.  I believe he is one of the few Haggis wranglers left.


----------



## justisla

goldstar31 said:


> Cornwall is actually West and was as I said the scene of tin mining from ancient times. Richard Trevithic is your man if interested.
> I live in Newcastle upon Tyne which was the border in Roman times and separated the Picts and Scots- from civilisation
> But the border changed MANY times and there was a Roman border- in what is Lowland Scotland. It was a turf one whereas the wall buikt by Emoeror Hardian was essentially of stone. In fact the Four Foot eight and a half inch railway gauge is the Roman chariot wheel width copied by the Wylam engineers
> Berwick on Tweed was 'no mans land'  We taught the Wild West 'cattle rustling', The Norsemen or Vikings cam and taught 'rape and pillage'. The Moss troopers taught us how to distill whisky.
> So Berwick changed its boundaries and when Britain declared war( as it often did), the signatories were England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland( all of it) and Berwick on Tweed.  When peace was finally signed, it  was 'back in England- and forgotten about.
> One of our greatest writers was Sir Walter Scott who wrote the Border Ballads.  One of ballads w ent something like this 'Lock the dorr Lariston, Lion, Lion of Liddesdale' and sort of finishes 'England shall many a day, tell of the boody fray, when the Blue Bonnets came over the Border. My late wife was a 'Liddell' and so surprisingly was 'Alice in Wonderland'.
> 
> So there you have a very potted version. I could go on about the. druids and 'cup and ring' markings.
> I was sort of brought up amongst Bronze Age skeletons- and my village was the scene  of the first steam turbine.
> Laughingly, I was a National Park warden for Northumberland and a founder of the first civilan mountain
> rescue team.
> 
> Enough for one day?


40 years ago one of our joiners- Les Huit left to become a National Park warden for Northumberland & was a keen mountaineer.
But perhaps we can go off thread for a second & may i ask if you know what it was that my late mother (who was borne in Berwick) Called a "Puffy Dunta". The salmon fishermen used to catch them in the nets off the shad in the mouth of the Tweed.
Can you also tell me if you know where in the north part of Northumberland there are some "domes" about 6 ft high rather like eggs. A group of them. Each one big enough for one or two people. My wife & I came upon them once & when we wanted to go back & have a decent look we could not find the place. No one seems to know of them.
PM me if you know please as the Mods might get a bit upset about the thread drift.


----------



## goldstar31

BaronJ said:


> Hi Richard,
> Cornwall is about as far west as you can get in the UK but its also about as far south as well.  Norman lives a bit further north of me up in Newcastle.  I believe he is one of the few Haggis wranglers left.



I'm going off Ron Callender's book on gold ming.  AhaH, John! 
 According to him, gold is found roughly on the 3 degree WEST line. So that includes Cornwall( as you say) but into Welsh Wales- look you, boyoh, where the Queen's wedding ring was mined, into Argyll  , up into 
The Grampians where I used to breed haggis- and these have two legs shorter than the others so they can run around mountains without  losing height, and up into the Black Isle, north of the Loch Ness  Monster.  We sort of passed Killwining and apparently there was gold found whilst Edinburgh Royal Infirmary was built.  Not far from the Roslyn Chapel,Knights Templar, The Apprentice's Stone--- and Dan Brown.

Apart from a teeny bit of artistic licence, it's all true. WE had a house North  of the Highland Line. My  wife 's ashes are scattered looking into the Lairig Ghru or as you Sassenachs would have it, the Foreboding Way.
Slange Va

Norman


----------



## goldstar31

justisla said:


> PM me if you know please as the Mods might get a bit upset about the thread drift.


Huit?  More likely to be 'Hewitt'  This is basalt and granite country. Cheviot is the remains of a very old volcano.

So I've. found 12 pages of stuff.  Will PM

Cheers

N


----------



## fcheslop

Hi Norm, It was Russia although the story is false
I remember the ship yards in Berwick 
I though sheep south of the border looked worried not short legged
My family had a few distant relatives who met a grizzly end .A misunderstanding over sheep, cows and women they borrowed from the English
*Last night a wind from Lammermoor came roaring
up the glen
With the tramp of trooping horses and the laugh of
reckless men 

And struck a mailed hand on the gate and cried in
rebel glee: 

 "Come forth.  Come forth, my Borderer, and ride the
March with me!"*​
cùm gu math agus sàbhailte  or something like that Im struggling to remember ,My grandfather would only speek the old language and you got a thick ear if you used english


----------



## HennieL

goldstar31 said:


> ...The problem was the flooding of the Cornish tin mines as miners dug deeper.  The copper mines in North Wales stopped as the little boys who were the miners hit salt water.



Some interesting info - there is a huge Cornish Beam Pump outside a little town called Okiep in north-western South Africa that was built by Cornish miners in 1881, that I had the pleasure of exploring (believed to be the only one still in existance in the southern hemisphere...). Okiep is on the edge of the Namib desert, and it was established as a mining town after copper was discovered in the area. Although the area is very barren, the miners encountered a heavy flow of underground water, and this beam pump was built to de-water the mine to keep it from flooding.

This pump is massive - standing four stories high, with an additional two stories basement underground. I unfortunately cannot find the photos that I took during my visit, but found some of the same pump on the internet.

Here is the pump building with part of the beam visible:





And this is a small part of the engine inside the building - the single cylinder is probably 2m in diameter, and just visible between the two vertical black pipes




And a schematic of the pump:





Brian,

Thanks for your design - I downloaded the drawings, and plan to build it as my second or third engine, once I've "wet my toes" on a simpler one to start with.


----------



## Richard Hed

goldstar31 said:


> Cornwall is actually West and was as I said the scene of tin mining from ancient times. Richard Trevithic is your man if interested.
> I live in Newcastle upon Tyne which was the border in Roman times and separated the Picts and Scots- from civilisation
> But the border changed MANY times and there was a Roman border- in what is Lowland Scotland. It was a turf one whereas the wall buikt by Emoeror Hardian was essentially of stone. In fact the Four Foot eight and a half inch railway gauge is the Roman chariot wheel width copied by the Wylam engineers
> Berwick on Tweed was 'no mans land'  We taught the Wild West 'cattle rustling', The Norsemen or Vikings cam and taught 'rape and pillage'. The Moss troopers taught us how to distill whisky.
> So Berwick changed its boundaries and when Britain declared war( as it often did), the signatories were England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland( all of it) and Berwick on Tweed.  When peace was finally signed, it  was 'back in England- and forgotten about.
> One of our greatest writers was Sir Walter Scott who wrote the Border Ballads.  One of ballads w ent something like this 'Lock the dorr Lariston, Lion, Lion of Liddesdale' and sort of finishes 'England shall many a day, tell of the boody fray, when the Blue Bonnets came over the Border. My late wife was a 'Liddell' and so surprisingly was 'Alice in Wonderland'.
> 
> So there you have a very potted version. I could go on about the. druids and 'cup and ring' markings.
> I was sort of brought up amongst Bronze Age skeletons- and my village was the scene  of the first steam turbine.
> Laughingly, I was a National Park warden for Northumberland and a founder of the first civilan mountain
> rescue team.
> 
> Enough for one day?


Actually, No.  This is very interesting stuff to me, I love anthropology, history, culture, astronomy, steam engines and a whole lot more.  In the USA we get a bit of fake history, the true history is hidden very deeply becasue the powers that be, definitely, do not want the people to know what really happened--we might sharpen our pitchforks and make up a few thousand rounds of ammo.  The true history of America is very chilling and other history?  what?  No such thing.


----------



## rc87woody

Anyone have a video link that works if this engine running? The links here are old and don’t work anymore. Lol


----------



## Richard Hed

rc87woody said:


> Anyone have a video link that works if this engine running? The links here are old and don’t work anymore. Lol




and Naturally, Keiths:

many others. NOt sure whichone you want


----------



## goldstar31

For those who are intersted in such things, there is a stone circle- smaller than Stonehenge at Duddo, Berwick on Tweed.

W e haven't wandered too much as the discovery of the Megalithic Yard by Alexander Thoms.  It. was calculated from the Planet Venus at various stone sites and done on the summer and winter solstices.
I read it all up in Masonic studies but that shouldn't put others off.


----------



## benkeller3

SignalFailure said:


> If anyone wants Elmer's Beam scaled up by about 1.75x and converted to metric I can supply the plans (I haven't got round to building it yet though!).


Wow. I would like to maybe get started with this one if you could send to to me.
Thx


----------



## Richard Hed

SignalFailure said:


> If anyone wants Elmer's Beam scaled up by about 1.75x and converted to metric I can supply the plans (I haven't got round to building it yet though!).


I'm interested too, however, I have a really lot of irons in the fire and a lot on my plate at the moment, but progress is made a bit at a time.


----------



## Richard Hed

BaronJ said:


> [QUOTE="Richard Hed,
> When you say "Cornish" I thought you were talking about Cornwall which is in South of England, correct?  But the rest of your post you are talkking about much further north, Hadrians Wall is North of Yorkshire, right?  Apparently Cornish refers to some place else than I Always thot.



Hi Richard,
Cornwall is about as far west as you can get in the UK but its also about as far south as well.  Norman lives a bit further north of me up in Newcastle.  I believe he is one of the few Haggis wranglers left. 
[/QUOTE]
I lookt on the map and found Cornwall is a county not a city.  I thot it was a city about halfway to London on the map.  So does the word Cornish refer to Cornwall or is it a different place?  I have English friends int the Philippines (don't call them "British", they get upset) and they tell me all kinds of storys bout England unless they are from Scotland.  It always surprises me to find such divisions in such a small place as Britain.  (British Columbia is about 10 times larger than Britain, at the same approximate latitude, and has about 5-6 million peeps in it, most in Vancouver.)  In the USA, we are a bit provincial but not anything like Britain or the continent.  We are more sectional than provincial but I find Europe and Britain to be more provincial.  Am I tooting too much smoke?  It IS legal here after all!   LOL


----------



## BaronJ

rc87woody said:


> Anyone have a video link that works if this engine running? The links here are old and don’t work anymore. Lol



There is a similar engine and pump at Blists Hill Telford.  I understand that it is steamed occasionally but I've not been there to see it in steam.


----------



## BaronJ

Hi Richard,

Cornish tends to refer to the people of Cornwall, or a product produced in Cornwall or by the Cornish people.

Like the famous Cornish and delicious pasty !  Traditionally a savory meal at one end and a sweet or pudding at the other.  The pressed bead around the bottom edge being the place where it would be held and identifying which way up it should be.

The idea was that in the dark, a Cornish tin miner would be able to have a meal in the mine without poisoning himself from the arsenic that would be on his fingers, by eating down to the bead on the rim and then throwing the rim away for the rats that often infested the mines.

Actually "Arsenic " was a much sought after byproduct of tin mining in those days.


----------



## goldstar31

Again in the 'Good Old Days' Anti- fouling paints for ships contained 99% arsenic.  It came in wooden barrels and was made up in Dunston. Gateshead.  One comedian doubted what it was, wet his fingers and dipped then into the open barrel- and sucked them
Big panic, this was part of a large local factory and a quick phone call to the University.
All was well, it would take 'a lot' to do any damage.

Fast forward to my climbing days where I read that it was usual for Tibetans to consume some arsenic.

Apparently( my memory ain't what it it used to be) signs of the substance appear in one's hair.

Back to gold again, John???
My dear old wife long gone found a source of gold- in the rotten teeth which she had extracted.
Melted the bits, centrifugally cast them( No flies on my Missus) and made into cosmetic ingots.
Wouldn't assay as it was alloyed with platinum.

I keep prattling on about dental amalgam- and get nowhere
Back to my Myford and jet washing the patio- no together of course !

N


----------



## rrocky

Theclockworks said:


> I to would like to build this scaled up beam.


Hi I would like a copy of the beam engine also thank you Peter ([email protected])


----------



## Steamchick

Hi All,
Lots of mitherings, ditherings and wanderings in this thread, but very interesting...
Perhaps I can add some musings.
I was taught that the first successful beam engines were the Newcomen "Atmospheric steam" engines, that didn't have these new fangled wheel things, as "pumps needed to go up and down" (say it in a rolling Cornish - or similar). So Newcomen made his pump engines in buildings - like the South African building - with the pump outside - as that's where all the water should be... The simple action was to fill the cylinder with steam - beneath the piston - from the boiler as the pump-rod dropped, and the weight of the pump-rod forced the pump piston to push the water to the surface. The Pump-rod and pump piston were then lifted up again by the steam condensing - inside the cylinder from a squirt of cold water - thus allowing the atmospheric pressure on the outside of the engine piston to push it down, lifting the Pump-rod on the other end of the beam, so the weight can pump water on the next stroke. Actually, this was the stroke of genius, as it is the first well recorded successful use of steam as an engine. 





						Animated Engines - Newcomen Atmospheric
					

Animated illustration and description of the Newcomen atmospheric engine.



					www.animatedengines.com
				



_Thomas Newcomen, The Prehistory of the Steam Engine_ L. T. C. Rolt, David and Charles Limited, 1963 is a highly recommended read. (I must get it!).
Watt plagiarised many ideas from others and came up with a workable low-pressure beam engine, with tremendous help and support from Thomas Boulton. Many different designs followed, mostly to get-around patents - which were used to restrict knowledge to the most profitable benefit of the originator's sponsor. (all sponsors need their payback - nothing has changed since Egyptians set the rules of society!)
Trevethick followed, by the use of High pressure steam, later Stephenson and Timothy Hackworth made Steam Locomotives a real business, and a part of modern day transport history.
The first engine is really Hero's turbine, the Aeolipile described by Hero of Alexandria : "a Greek mathematician and engineer who was active in his native city of Alexandria, Roman Egypt" *ca.10 – ca.70 AD*. But this appears to have no practical application, other than a demonstration of the "power from steam".
There are earlier references to Egyptian door-opening engines connected to steam boilers, - which were probably atmospheric engines like Newcomen's, directly acting on a lever so turn rotate the door on its hinges. (The whole mechanism being under the floor of the door opening). If it was successful, maybe there would have been other uses for the engine? - or other records? - even if no archaeological remains somewhere. Possibly many records of Hero and others were lost if they were in the Library of Alexandria, when it was burnt down. But Ancient Egyptian records were carved in stone on Temple walls. 
Enough of my musings: But a post-script: I am a direct descendant of the Chickens of the North-East of England who worked with George Stevenson (as Engineers from Ryton, driving Pumping engines in Mines, later, on Locomotives), Robert Stevenson and Timothy Hackworth (both on locomotives on the Stockton and Darlington railway - through railways to London and on to the railways to Liverpool and North Wales from London). 
So much history, yet so little I know!


----------



## goldstar31

Steamchick said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 
> ******* with George Stevenson (as Engineers from Ryton, driving Pumping engines in Mines, later, on Locomotives), Robert Stevenson and Timothy Hackworth (both on locomotives on the Stockton and Darlington railway - through railways to London and on to the railways to Liverpool and North Wales from London).
> So much history, yet so little I know!



Nope.  George Stephenson  was born in Wylam- along with Hedley and Hackworth. As far as I can gather he had no connection with Ryton which was, at that time in County. Durham. It is now in Tyne and Wear.
What was in Ryton was the experiments of Charles Algernon Parsons who lived there.
Wylam was in Nortumberland. Whether it is now in Tyne and Wear- I  don't know.
To confuse your musings- you can throw a stone from what was and possibly still is, the Parish of Ryton to Stephenson's Cottage-- but the rarely tidal at that point River Tyne is between!
There was a pump at Clara-vale Colliery which was part of Stella Coal Company and the foreman electrician was Isaac Palmer who married my Aunt Mary.  My father was one of the blacksmiths and was a farrier with the pit ponies for Stella Coal Colliery.
You see I went to Ryton Intermediate Council School until I was 14- then the normal school leaving age.

As for Hero, his invention was the first jet engine. There is a toss up whether the first of modern jets. The Italians were certainly there too and I recall the experiments using coal by Lorin and Babst.

There is a tiny bit of Ryton on the North bank of the Tyne. It was accessible by ferry from Ryton Willows.
Again, the Blaydon Races were never held in Blaydon- it was held in Ryton at the bend called Cromwell- who also crossed there.


----------



## gunner312

benkeller3 said:


> Wow. I would like to maybe get started with this one if you could send to to me.
> Thx


Me too, I've always wanted to build a beam engine.


----------



## Richard Hed

BaronJ said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> Cornish tends to refer to the people of Cornwall, or a product produced in Cornwall or by the Cornish people.
> 
> Like the famous Cornish and delicious pasty !  Traditionally a savory meal at one end and a sweet or pudding at the other.  The pressed bead around the bottom edge being the place where it would be held and identifying which way up it should be.
> 
> The idea was that in the dark, a Cornish tin miner would be able to have a meal in the mine without poisoning himself from the arsenic that would be on his fingers, by eating down to the bead on the rim and then throwing the rim away for the rats that often infested the mines.
> 
> Actually "Arsenic " was a much sought after byproduct of tin mining in those days.


Those titbits are always soooo interestink.  And thankyew for those titbits.  Send more.  BTW, did you get the files?  Can you use them?  Let me know and I will send more or A-CADs if you wish.


----------



## Richard Hed

goldstar31 said:


> I'm going off Ron Callender's book on gold ming.  AhaH, John!
> According to him, gold is found roughly on the 3 degree WEST line. So that includes Cornwall( as you say) but into Welsh Wales- look you, boyoh, where the Queen's wedding ring was mined, into Argyll  , up into
> The Grampians where I used to breed haggis- and these have two legs shorter than the others so they can run around mountains without  losing height, and up into the Black Isle, north of the Loch Ness  Monster.  We sort of passed Killwining and apparently there was gold found whilst Edinburgh Royal Infirmary was built.  Not far from the Roslyn Chapel,Knights Templar, The Apprentice's Stone--- and Dan Brown.
> 
> Apart from a teeny bit of artistic licence, it's all true. WE had a house North  of the Highland Line. My  wife 's ashes are scattered looking into the Lairig Ghru or as you Sassenachs would have it, the Foreboding Way.
> Slange Va
> 
> Norman


I heard this story about the Haggis with the mountain legs tried to go home when winter came.  they turned around on the mountain and couldn't stand upright, went tumbling down the mountain and all died in the rocks below.  Can you tell me if this is true?


----------



## goldstar31

Richard Hed said:


> I heard this story about the Haggis with the mountain legs tried to go home when winter came.  they turned around on the mountain and couldn't stand upright, went tumbling down the mountain and all died in the rocks below.  Can you tell me if this is true?



I trained mine to walk in an anticlockwise direction. You can't have dead animiles cluttering up the mountains and frightening the Long Grey Man of Ben MacDhuie. Think of the Kelpies.

I once had a discussion with a French Professor of England about the origins of the haggis.
Then I let him into the secrets of the Grande Alliance with les Grenouilles. Then we got into a serious discussion about English wheeling the wings of his Delahaye car.  He had a pair of Hotckiss ones. None of the tatty American stuff.  Jean Claude B had 'classe'  He used to swop me  5 litres of good red wine from the Loire for the the same 140 SAE oil which was unobtainable in la Belle France.

Icidentally, 'haggis' is actually a French word.

Ca Va?

Norman


----------



## Richard Hed

goldstar31 said:


> I trained mine to walk in an anticlockwise direction. You can't have dead animiles cluttering up the mountains and frightening the Long Grey Man of Ben MacDhuie. Think of the Kelpies.
> 
> I once had a discussion with a French Professor of England about the origins of the haggis.
> Then I let him into the secrets of the Grande Alliance with les Grenouilles. Then we got into a serious discussion about English wheeling the wings of his Delahaye car.  He had a pair of Hotckiss ones. None of the tatty American stuff.  Jean Claude B had 'classe'  He used to swop me  5 litres of good red wine from the Loire for the the same 140 SAE oil which was unobtainable in la Belle France.
> 
> Icidentally, 'haggis' is actually a French word.
> 
> Ca Va?
> 
> Norman


Har har har, that is funny, but except for the haggis that you trained and the oil wine trade, I haven't got a clue as to what you sed.


----------



## BaronJ

Richard Hed said:


> Those titbits are always soooo interestink.  And thankyew for those titbits.  Send more.  BTW, did you get the files?  Can you use them?  Let me know and I will send more or A-CADs if you wish.



Hi Richard,
I replied to you this morning !
But yes I did get the files.  See my reply.

I was never very good at history, in fact at school I hated it. The teachers at that time had their favorites and I wasn't one of them.  It was the same with metalwork, I could never do anything right !  The result was I wasn't allowed to touch the lathe or any of the machines, so I got myself transferred to woodwork, at least that way I got to use the lathes and other machines in there.

Sorry, I had to add this edit because I understood the Scottish folk law that Norman eluded too.  But I'll let him explain.  ROFL.


----------



## goldstar31

Richard Hed said:


> Har har har, that is funny, but except for the haggis that you trained and the oil wine trade, I haven't got a clue as to what you sed.



For many years France and Scotland  were closely allied. Bonnie Prince Charlie and the '45'. Relations between England and Scotland were rarely happy hence this Berwick on Tweed thing.
We had the Virgin Queen Elizabeth and Mary Queen of Scots at hammer and tongs and that was the time of the Tudors-  Henry the 8th and that. It wasn't until Elizabeth  died that  James the 6th of Scotland  took the English throne and became James the 1st.  This is 2020 and Scotland still wants independence!
It's a bit like France and Spain today. 
Some of the places mentioned earlier are from the Gaelic. I had property in the Scottish Highland in the Savoie district of France and in the Balearic Islands of Spain. This is Catalonia and wants to leave the poor regions of Spain.


----------



## Richard Hed

BaronJ said:


> Hi Richard,
> I replied to you this morning !
> But yes I did get the files.  See my reply.
> 
> I was never very good at history, in fact at school I hated it. The teachers at that time had their favorites and I wasn't one of them.  It was the same with metalwork, I could never do anything right !  The result was I wasn't allowed to touch the lathe or any of the machines, so I got myself transferred to woodwork, at least that way I got to use the lathes and other machines in there.
> 
> Sorry, I had to add this edit because I understood the Scottish folk law that Norman eluded too.  But I'll let him explain.  ROFL.


I hated hystery and other subjects too, but as an adult (not me, I'm just 12 years old), I realize that hystery is quite a mystery and very interestink.  the problem with the schools is that they are trying to get conformallity in peeps to be factory workers.  Real hystery is quite different -- for instance, we are taught that RE Lee is the greatest general of the Civil War, in fact, that is just propaganda for the losing side, sort of an easy let down.  Truth is that Ulysses (one of MY heroes) NEVER lost a single battle!  NOt one.  However, there are two that he did not win either--they were ties.  Also, Ulysses captured THREE intact armies.  No-one else did such a feat and certainly REL should have captured at least ONE army, but he did not.  The only other person to actually capture a complete army was a southern general in Alabama or thereabouts of 12,000 men.  Ulysses first capture was Fort Donelson with 15,000 men.  His next capture was the pivotal importance of Vicksburg on July 4th 1863 of 35,000 men--one day after the overshadowing Gettysburg fiasco.  (General Eisenhower said Lee should have been fired for that, but look who's talking--Eisenhower should have fire Mongomery!)  His last capture was Lee at Appomatox of 65000 men.

The worst indictment against Lee was his own beliefs:  Lee believed in Union, he believed slavery was a sin and should be done away with, he believed Virginia should stay in the Union--what kind of man could he be?  A traitor to himself, a traitor to his own beliefs.  He should have been fired after Gettysburg, it is my belief that Longstreet should have been put in command.  Certainly Longstreet could have handled Gettysburg better.  Oddly enough (He was best man at Ulysses' wedding), Longstreet embraced the decision of the war after it ended, became a republican (how loathesome that would be in THIS day.)  And workt for Ulysses in some government capacity.


----------



## goldstar31

I've been to the USA but never went to Gettysburg as I lost the address


----------



## Richard Hed

goldstar31 said:


> I've been to the USA but never went to Gettysburg as I lost the address


Very funni.  I live on the Left Coast, in the Soviet of Washington.  I would like to see it, but realistically, I thimk gettysburg is QUITE overrated -- the best place would most likely be Chickamauga/Chatanooga, the least importance given to a VERY important battle.  Peeps have all heard of Vicksburg and Gettysburg and Antietam and Shiloh, but Chatanooga/Chickamauga was CLEARLY a very important battle, one in which General Rosecrans initially kikt the heck out of Braxton Bragger at Chatanooga but in which Bragg nearly wiped out Rosecrans at Chickamauga.  There were 35000 casualties (kilt and wounded and captured).  George Thomas, a southerner fighting for the Union, did not get routed, he earned the name "the Rock of Chickamauga" for his good work exactly as stonewall Jackson had earned his sobriquet.  Over all, there were Several major battles as important or possibly MORE important than Gettysburg.  they are Vicksburg, Chattanooga, Antietam.  also, in importance and death toll was Shiloh.  Ulysses had to come to the rescue at Chattanooga, relieving Rosecrans and putting Thomas in command.  It's more complicated than that, but it's one of those things us Armchair Generals (I'm General Hed, or better yet, the Hed General) thimk we could have done better.  Chattanooga was starving to death as Ulysses came to the rescue.  He IMMEDIATELY fixt the starvation problem which seems to us ridiculous that the commanding generals could not have done for themselves.  It seems that Ulysses was simply CHARMED as from the moment he took over (he was suffering from an accident and a NEAR broken leg in which he had to be lifted onto his horse and carried over rough hills).  He took the place by a lot of fortuitous accidents, providence.  BTW, he never got a single bullet or shrapnel wound, but he had a couple wounds from horse falls.  It is HE who really ended slavery and HE who helped to stop the second civil war which very few people have even heard about.

Also of very high importance was Sherman's March but that is not a battle as such, but a "Campaign".


----------



## rc87woody

BaronJ said:


> There is a similar engine and pump at Blists Hill Telford.  I understand that it is steamed occasionally but I've not been there to see it in steam.


That doesn’t help.


----------



## rc87woody

Did anyone ever scale this up more? Any files or plans for it?


----------



## Richard Hed

Richard Hed said:


> Very funni.  I live on the Left Coast, in the Soviet of Washington.  I would like to see it, but realistically, I thimk gettysburg is QUITE overrated -- the best place would most likely be Chickamauga/Chatanooga, the least importance given to a VERY important battle.  Peeps have all heard of Vicksburg and Gettysburg and Antietam and Shiloh, but Chatanooga/Chickamauga was CLEARLY a very important battle, one in which General Rosecrans initially kikt the heck out of Braxton Bragger at Chatanooga but in which Bragg nearly wiped out Rosecrans at Chickamauga.  There were 35000 casualties (kilt and wounded and captured).  George Thomas, a southerner fighting for the Union, did not get routed, he earned the name "the Rock of Chickamauga" for his good work exactly as stonewall Jackson had earned his sobriquet.  Over all, there were Several major battles as important or possibly MORE important than Gettysburg.  they are Vicksburg, Chattanooga, Antietam.  also, in importance and death toll was Shiloh.  Ulysses had to come to the rescue at Chattanooga, relieving Rosecrans and putting Thomas in command.  It's more complicated than that, but it's one of those things us Armchair Generals (I'm General Hed, or better yet, the Hed General) thimk we could have done better.  Chattanooga was starving to death as Ulysses came to the rescue.  He IMMEDIATELY fixt the starvation problem which seems to us ridiculous that the commanding generals could not have done for themselves.  It seems that Ulysses was simply CHARMED as from the moment he took over (he was suffering from an accident and a NEAR broken leg in which he had to be lifted onto his horse and carried over rough hills).  He took the place by a lot of fortuitous accidents, providence.  BTW, he never got a single bullet or shrapnel wound, but he had a couple wounds from horse falls.  It is HE who really ended slavery and HE who helped to stop the second civil war which very few people have even heard about.
> 
> Also of very high importance was Sherman's March but that is not a battle as such, but a "Campaign".


I was recently looking at a steam engine that powered the "monitor".  It was really an odd engine.  Someone had built it recently, would like to know more.  I'd like to see what the "Virginia"  (we know that as the Merrimac) was powered by.


----------



## Canyonman

Yes Sir! I would like a set of plans please


----------



## Richard Hed

USS Monitor engine
		


This is the "Monitor" engine.  It's pretty cool in my opinion

I was looking on line for the monitor and found this:



			https://www.packratworkshop.com/libmain.htm
		


Probably, someone has already reported this site, but there is lots of goo stuff on it


----------



## Larry G.

Rich Carlstedt built a model of the engine.








						Rich Carlstedt and the ultimate USS <em>Monitor</em> steam engine model
					

Come hear a special guest lecture by national award-winning model maker and engineer Richard “Rich” Carlstedt on how USS <em>Monitor</em>'s amazing main steam engine worked.




					www.marinersmuseum.org


----------



## Richard Carlstedt

Thank You Larry for the post
My recently updated ( 4 months)  and improved website is here

*


			Home
		

*
and for an animated view of Monitor's  Piston ( 1861) action go here:

http://www.stationarysteam.com/linked/rich_s__monitor_motion_video_from_sw.mp4 

And to see an animation of John Ericsson's original (1858) concept of a "Vibrating Lever Engine"  (which is not a "Side lever Engine") go here:




			http://www.stationarysteam.com/linked/patent_engine_assembly_2-10.mp4
		


Drawings will be forthcoming , stay tuned 
Rich


----------



## davidyat

*Brian,
   I've started on your "Larger Simple Beam Engine". With my skill level, turning the square required for the column is bothering me. My question, can the column be made from 3 pieces, silver soldered together? The square at the bottom looks to be decorative, not rather functional, so I can make it out of round stock if I want to. Next make the column without the clevis end. Then make the clevis end and screw, bolt or silver solder it to the column. I would make the clevis end slightly larger than finished dimension and after attaching it to the column, machine it square to the column and to final dimensions. Thanks in advance.
Grasshopper*


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Make it any way that suits you. Just don't change any of the links or pivot points, or it isn't going to work.---Brian


----------



## davidyat

*Brian,
   Thanks for the advice. Yes, I will make sure your dimensions are machined to the prints.
Grasshopper*


----------



## davidyat

*Brian,
   I've finished the valve, bored the piston and valve holes on the cylinder. I'm getting ready to bore the air inlets on the side. After boring the two 0.080 inch holes through the valve hole to the cylinder bore, do I need to somehow fill in the hole on the outside of the valve hole? Or it doesn't matter. And the 0.125 hole on the bottom to the valve hole, is it there just to relieve pressure on the down stroke of the valve? 
Grasshopper*


----------



## davidyat

*Brian,
   Never mind getting back to me. I found Post #134 and #135 of this thread that answered all my questions.
Grasshopper*


----------



## ron4vt

Greetings Gentlemen, for those whom wish more details, I've just browsed the Internet and came across a few images depicting the Monitor engine main arrangement. It is indeed an ingenious design for that era. Ron


----------



## davidyat

*Brian,
   On the beam engine, you advise to use toothpaste on the valve for lapping. I've used toothpaste in the past when I was building plastic model cars to smooth out a paint job. Do you suggest gel or white toothpaste and about what grit is it?
Grasshopper*


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I've given up on the toothpaste as a lapping compound. Now I use 600 grit lapping compound. It is about 10 times faster than toothpaste. You can buy a small jar of it that will last for the rest of your life.  I believe it is finely ground aluminum oxide in a base of heavy grease or wax. Do not buy automotive valve grinding compound, it is far too course for model engines.---Brian


----------



## davidyat

*Thanks for the reply Brian. I do have a container of 800 grit lapping compound and like you said, it will last for the rest of my life.
Grasshopper*


----------



## Steamchick

Toothpaste contains calcium oxide - chalk dust - as far as I know.... Yes it is abrasive, as it is intended to erode deposits on teeth - made of Calcium compounds. But not to be harder than teeth, otherwise it would damage the enamel surface that is the hard protective layer of the tooth. Maybe there is a dentist can tell us more? ( OR correct me?). It scratches plastic visors of motorcycles. I learned that back in the 1970s! But cleans glass well, and I think was an ingredient of Windolene (pink) liquid? As to lining iron or steel, I suspect it simply lubricates and the metal to metal does the linishing. Carborundum is effective at grinding off the peaks and crests from machining. But actually leaves grooves the size of the particles in the grinding paste.. These grooves hold the oil to prevent seizures when running. Too small can be as bad as too coarse I think? But my tribology comes from a week spent with a doctor of tribology, so I am not an expert.
The size of the oil molecule should be smaller than the finest lapping groove for it all to work... I think? Please correct  me if I am "rump before brain"?
K2


----------



## Steamchick

Lining should read linishing, but smell checker beat me again!
K2


----------



## Steamchick

I was taught the 40 micron min diametrical clearance for the gap between crank journal and bearing face was to permit the oil molecules to roll through the gap on the loaded side of the nearing and allow flow of oil through the slack side so fresh oil is ready for the next revolution. Not sure of the size of oil molecule . .. anyone know?
K2


----------



## Cogsy

Steamchick said:


> Toothpaste contains calcium oxide - chalk dust - as far as I know.... Yes it is abrasive, as it is intended to erode deposits on teeth - made of Calcium compounds. But not to be harder than teeth, otherwise it would damage the enamel surface that is the hard protective layer of the tooth.


Toothpaste abrasives take many forms, surprisingly even hard compounds like aluminium oxides. Don't brush your teeth too vigorously or for too long or you remove too much enamel.


----------



## Cogsy

Steamchick said:


> I was taught the 40 micron min diametrical clearance for the gap between crank journal and bearing face was to permit the oil molecules to roll through the gap on the loaded side of the nearing and allow flow of oil through the slack side so fresh oil is ready for the next revolution. Not sure of the size of oil molecule . .. anyone know?
> K2


Tiny, nowhere near the micron size but in the Angstrom range. With a molecular weight around 500g/mol then each molecule weighs around 0.0000000000000000000008 grams - that should give you an idea of the size


----------



## Steamchick

ron4vt said:


> Greetings Gentlemen, I've found a few images depicting the Monitor engine main arrangement. It is indeed an ingenious design for that era. Ron


Thanks Ron, I couldn't see the engine well enough in those draing prints, but is it an Horizontal opposed piston design - ends of rods connected to a crank arrangement via levers, the crank being directly onto the screw shaft? 
  - shows it nicely!
Aso:


			https://modelengineeringwebsite.com/USS_Monitor_engine_build_1.html
		

.
I think somewhere I have some British "Naval" engine designs? = The Trunk engine? combined the poiston and cross-head in the piston to make the engine more compact: see attached.
I think the 19th century - and especially wartime - encouraged ingenuity. 
In my experience of 20/21st c industry, ingenuity was "too risky" for management... so the Ingenious Engineers (not I - not that clever) were kept away from free thinking... tweaking and developing existing "good sellers" was what we were told we were paid to do... 
(Curious, the skilled Machine shop machinists were called "maintenance engineers" - and earned a bit less than the "office engineers - many chartered" - who in turn earned less than the Production machinists who drove CNC machines - programmed by someone else! - Something to do with "agreed pay levels for traditional skills" versus "negotiable new skills" - according to the union... On a personal note, I could never achieve the earnings as an engineer that Production shift workers could achieve! - Yet had to have a degree or equivalent qualification and had a "3-months notice" compared to their "1 week/1 month"? due to "difficulty of replacement". - And never having been promoted was told that I was "too valuable doing the engineering" to promote! - Wierd? Maybe they meant I was rubbish? - But we all got made redundant on the same terms at the drop of a hat! I still managed 43 years as an engineer, after a degree and 5 years part-time machine shop work while at school. "51 years" work may be short by some standards but retirement is great! - I get to discuss engineering and machining with you lot!).
Keep happy! 
K2


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## Chiptosser

This is a very superb model!  I have seen it a number of times.   As I followed his build over the years , he would have it at the N.AM.E.S. shows, in the different stages of build.  I need to find my pictures of the progress that he made over the years.


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## davidyat

*Brian,
   I could use your help on the Lower Valve Lever-2 of the Larger Simple Beam Engine. I've included a BAD rendering of the lever but I'm sure you'll get the idea. I have no knowledge of CAD and do not have CNC on my machines. Everything is manual. Is it possible, after you see the rendering, for you to give me the dimensions of X and Y distances? It's a slow build for me as I've made a few mistakes and had to make parts over again. 
Thanks,
Grasshopper



*


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## Brian Rupnow




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## davidyat

*Thanks Brian, this will help immensely.
Grasshopper*


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## davidyat

*I can see a light at the end of the tunnel for this project. Some parts do have a little binding and I'd rather have that than sloppy loose. Binding can be lapped away. I'm getting ready to finish the air valve and my brain just can't get around something. Where are the exhaust ports supposed to be? Anyway, here are a couple of pics of my progress. Yes, I did make a plate for the front of the cylinder to keep most of the air where it should be. And I did make a mistake when I ordered the base plate. Ordered 3/8 instead of 5/8 thickness. But decided to work around this and so far I believe it will work.
Grasshopper*


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## Brian Rupnow

There is a hole right at the base of the square cylinder. It goes from outside into the round hole that the valve rod slides in. The exhaust comes out there.


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## davidyat

*Thanks*


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## davidyat

Brian,
   I have been away from machining for a while. If you don't have your head in it, you WILL make mistakes. I took some time to build some 1/8 scale race cars and road cars. Anyway, I've been looking at getting back to finishing the beam engine. All the parts are done and I'm dry fitting the parts and figuring out where the tight areas are to loosen them up a bit. My question, what is the distance the air valve rises and falls? I'm coming up with an average of 0.313 inch. Is this in the ball park?
Grasshopper


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## Brian Rupnow

David, it's been 10 years or so since I built that engine. I just got it down off the shelf and measured the travel, and it is 0.433".---Brian


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## davidyat

Looks like I may have to re-make some parts. Thanks,
Grasshopper


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## Philzy

I’m having trouble finding one of the drawings. It has to be here because so many of you have made the parts. It’s listed as part #7, sub-assembly of crankshaft. Could someone point me to the page/drawing I’m obviously overlooking.


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## Brian Rupnow




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## Philzy

Brian Rupnow said:


>


Thank you, sir.


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## LorenOtto

Brian Rupnow said:


>


Brian, I just stumbled on this thread and watched from the beginning. You are incredible with your life time support of your projects.  My hat is off to you.


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## Brian Rupnow

Loren--I get  lot of joy from doing this.---Brian


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## mnay

I just saw this thread.  I started this same engine a couple of years ago at x 3 scale with a few changes.  Work on it stopped when we moved to a new house.   I hope to get back to it in a couple of months.


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## tevans9129

Hello Brian, Just a note to thank you for sharing the beam engine plans, very much appreciated. I have only built a PM #3 but really like the looks of your plans for my second attempt. I am trying to build it with materials that I have on hand so there are a number of mods, some by design and some because of mistakes but the process is enjoyable and educational.

My present problem is trying to come up with an answer for the flywheel as I do not have any stock that large, 4 inches is the largest that 
I have. I am wondering about placing the wheel on the outside of the bearing and perhaps making it .5 to .625 in width. Would that be a bad idea?

Ted


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## Brian Rupnow

Tevans--flywheels are tricky---most of the work they do is done with the outer diameter of the wheel.  Making  flywheel smaller in diameter but thicker won't really give you the same results as you get with the larger diameter.---Brian


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## Richard Hed

Brian Rupnow said:


> Tevans--flywheels are tricky---most of the work they do is done with the outer diameter of the wheel.  Making  flywheel smaller in diameter but thicker won't really give you the same results as you get with the larger diameter.---Brian


That's right.  I have inserted a photo -- the middle equation, I thimpfks, is the correct one.  A flywheel will be an approximate cylinder.  So the moment of I goes up with the square of the radius given the mass of the ring stays constant.


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## PeterDRG

elefant_man said:


> I don't know if any one is still interested but please find MM conversion of the plans at the link below they are zipped and PDF format.
> 
> 
> I have only converted the dimensions so all the threads etc are as they were and I have not changed the spec of any of the parts so the dimensions might seem a little precise like 48.26mm instead of 1.9" etc.
> 
> If there are any problems with the conversion let me know and I will address any issues.
> 
> This looks a great little engine and I may have a go myself if I ever get the time. The OP did a great job with the model and drawings.
> 
> http://www.01space.co.uk/STEAMENGINE/BEAM TYPE STEAM ENGINE MM CONVERTED.zip


This link no longer works (404). Does anyone have the file and could forward it to me ? Pretty Please ?


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## PeterDRG

PeterDRG said:


> This link no longer works (404). Does anyone have the file and could forward it to me ? Pretty Please ?


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## Harpanet13

PeterDRG said:


> Here you go


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## PeterDRG

Brilliant ! Thank you very much.


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## Johnjo

Brian Rupnow said:


> View attachment 30687


Really liking the drawings Brian, will be giving it a go.


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