# Window sash weight cast iron



## Philjoe5 (Dec 20, 2007)

After reading a number of posts here and elsewhere about using old sash weights as a source of cast iron I picked up a few from a local building salvage store. They are about 12" long and maybe 1.5 inch diameter. I thought I'd slice off the end of one to see if they were solid iron or filled with cement. The bandsaw cut through about 1/8" and then stopped cutting. The blade just runs over the metal but doesn't cut it. Did I maybe dull the blade cutting through the skin or what?


----------



## Cedge (Dec 20, 2007)

Phil
That outer skin is diabolically tough and can dull a blade fast. I've got a dozen sash weights inbound, as we speak. When they arrive, I intend to skin them with a surface grinder before they go near my other tools...LOL Bogster recommends scoring and breaking them with a hammer. I'll have to give his method a shot before commenting.

It's harder to find these little buggers than I'd have thought. I missed some made of brass on Ebay ,recently, thinking I'd see more later.... Wrong!!!

Steve


----------



## lugnut (Dec 20, 2007)

If you live near Coblesskill New York here is 20 window weights for $5
http://cgi.ebay.com/16-WINDOW-WEIGH...ryZ63520QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Merry Christmas
Mel


----------



## 1Kenny (Dec 20, 2007)

Been looking for sash weights too. I put out some feelers out to my mechanic friends, behold, one of the guys replaced some windows in his cabin far up in the mountains and has a few from the old windows that he kept. He said he would bring them to me on his next trip down. Free.

Phil,

Sounds like it ate the blade.

I have been wondering if the skin could be cut off with a carbide bit in the mill, then cut it with a saw.

Kenny


----------



## Mcgyver (Dec 20, 2007)

I wouldn't bother with them. They are notorious for having brutally hard chill spots that will wreck tooling in an instant. same with barbells. you may get lucky, and I'm all for being cheap, but I'd rather buy the durabar that machines like butter than new bandsaw blades and end mills.


----------



## gilessim (Dec 20, 2007)

The problem with sash weights and often cast iron bar (even good quality cast bar!) is that when they are taken out of the "mould" , they are often laid out on a cooler surface to cool down ,and as a consequence they can develop a hard spot all along the side that touches the cooler resting place, this can often be more than .100",once you get through it you should be ok but cross drilling ,unless you take the skin off, can be a pain. I have a length of 35mm bronze (very new and bearing quality so they told me!) that I used to make a bearing for a friend the other day and this also made the telltale "tick tick tick" on the lathe when I turned it down,once I got through the offending skin, everything went fine!.

Use your own ground hss tools instead of indexable ones, that way you don't end up throwing expensive tips away!


Giles


----------



## wareagle (Dec 20, 2007)

I have had my eye out for some sash weights for a couple of months now. Hard to find to say the least! For the effort in locating them, it may very well be worth spending the money to get "new" materal. :-\


----------



## Philjoe5 (Dec 20, 2007)

I removed the bandsaw blade. The teeth have almost flat "points". Let's see, $5 weight + $15 saw blade = $20. Enco sells durabar for about $15 in this diameter. Plus I'm sure I'd lose a lathe toolbit or two so I'm cutting my losses . Anyone wanna buy some window weights. One has a slight blemish (looks like a saw kerf) :. Actually they're not for sale...they'll make excellent fishing sinkers someday, ;D


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 21, 2007)

Phil: 
 I have a few sash weights I have experimented with. do not wast time with the band saw. just score the skin and pop apart. I cut about 1/16 to 1/8 deep with a cut-off wheel on a 4in grinder all the way around just enough to get a good stress groove. Then set on the edge of the anvil one whack with a 2lb hammer and is was cut.I used the hardy on the anvil with good success as well. Think wedge. My band saw will and has cut through 3" cast iron bar stock but not needed for the window weights. cast iron is brittle use it to your advantage.
Tin


----------



## gilessim (Dec 21, 2007)

I keep trying to praise the advantages of a 4.5" grinder over a bandsaw (I don't have a bandsaw!) I don't know if you can get very thin cut off discs in the states (1-1.5mm thick) but they are fantastic!, you can cut ANYTHING! with them, if you have a good hand, also very squarely, try 'em!

Giles


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 22, 2007)

IIRC the US equivalent is the .040 inch cut off wheels.
abrasive wheels can be handy I have used the dremel more than once to cut HSS bits
Tin


----------



## SignalFailure (Jan 2, 2008)

Someone gave me a sash weight as I needed some cast iron for the cylinder on my long-term project. We could hardly touch the thing using an industrial strength Harrison lathe at the club even when leaning on the tool so there's no wayh I could cut it on my mini-lathe! AFAIK it's still in the scrap box :


----------



## RonC (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce Satra confesses to having probably originated the sash weight debacle through a comment made in a very early SIC. He has recanted and now says it was the stupidest thing he ever wrote. Sash weights don't even make good boat anchors. 

The only substitute for good, fine grained, centrifugally cast CI is "pultruded" CI. That said, a MEN reader in Norway claims to have machined good pistons out of a Fiat cam shaft using the metal between the cams and bearing surfaces. 

I've used CI valve guides cut up and turned down to make crankshaft bearings--they machined beautifully, but had to be mounted on a mandrel between centers to make the bore concentric with the outer diameter. They would make lousy pistons though, for obvious reasons ;-)

rc


----------



## mklotz (Jan 2, 2008)

ISTR that places like Home Depot used to sell pipe plugs made of cast iron. Do they still? If so, they might be a convenient, though probably not cheapest, source for a small piece.


----------



## shred (Jan 2, 2008)

Pipe plugs and barbell weights (the other often-suggested small-qty local supply) are pretty low quality CI-- a fair bit of junk in each but would probably work. A friend in the plumbing business says the recent batches of CI pipe fittings from China have had a bad problem with random pinhole leaks as well. He has had to refinish a couple floors because of it.


----------



## lugnut (Jan 2, 2008)

A cast iron window weight has to be the very lowest grade of material on the planet. Why would anyone risk tearing up a mill or lathe for 50-Cent piece of crap? You can buy good quality CI from most metal suppliers for a couple of bucks. Like some here said there are much better places to scrounge CI if you feel you need Cheap. 
Mel


----------



## Bogstandard (Jan 3, 2008)

This topic has been discussed a lot before, mainly after the site was first started, and I started my posts on building engines from scrap.
I personally have never had any trouble with sash weights during the years I have been using them, and the most recent engines using them for cylinders and pistons are still working perfectly, particularly the twin flame licker, which just will not run if bad materials and tolerances are used.
The last 3 to 4 inches at the opposite end to the loop should be cut off and thrown away, that is where all the dross collects. 
The rest is perfectly useable, if you know how to handle it. If you don't, you should go down the route of the metal supplier and buy at the £ or $ per inch prices. 
But please don't discount it just because you don't have the knack to work it. I have great trouble sometimes working in stainless, mainly because mine comes from unknown sources, but it would cause an uproar if I turned round and said 'don't use stainless, it is crap to work with'. That is my personal problem, other people work it just like working brass, eventually I will crack it, and be happy with the results.
Just send them all to me, and I will be happy to accept it as long as it costs me nothing, it will save me having to drag myself around the scrap yards or window manufacturers to find them, and I will have enough to finish off all the cast iron cylindered engines I have stored up in my mind.

John


----------



## Cedge (Jan 3, 2008)

John
What are you doing to get through the tough outer skin of the weights? Pickling, grinding, or cutting from the fresh end with a tool?

Steve


----------



## Bogstandard (Jan 3, 2008)

Steve,
The tipped parting tool that I have (and it is a real monster of a tool, it takes no prisoners) will part it off as though it was brass. But as not many people have such a thing, and I didn't until a couple of years back. What I used to do then was just score around it with an angle grinder to just under the skin, and drop it on the floor a couple of times, if that didn't work I would persuade it with a small sledge.
Once you have it apart it is then dead easy, just put a fairly deep cut on with a sharp hss tool (tc tools are a bit blunt for this job unless you trim them up with a diamond) to get under the skin (around 0.050") at the broken end and it will just fall off as you go along. As far as I can remember I end up with about 1 3/16" diam bar by about 12" long (but I normally break them into 3" or 4" long slugs before taking the skin off).
I also have a 9" angle grinder that I bought a holder for, that turns it into a cut off grinder, and in the summer I normally have a session cutting up outside, just to annoy the rat a**ed neighbours I have, I usually wait until they put their washing out as well. It is a bit too dusty and noisy to use indoors.

John


----------



## Cedge (Jan 3, 2008)

Colder than hell in the shop, but I took a minute to chuck up one of the weights I have to see what my small lathe could do. I used a cheap brazed carbide cutter, from Harbor freight, with a nice sharp corner and it easily sank right on through the tough outer crust. Once that was accomplished, the outer coating scaled off with no problems at all. Looks like I'll have about 1.5 inches in diameter and about 10- 12 inches of good usable stock per weight. If this holds true, I'll have about 11 or 12 feet of very cheap CI when I'm done. The only bad metal, so far, is in the area at the butt end, where John already mentioned the dross would have collected. Pretty nasty stuff down there.


Not at all unhappy with this experiment 
Steve


----------



## Bogstandard (Jan 3, 2008)

Steve,

Was it worth the effort?

Please reply honestly ;D

John


----------



## Cedge (Jan 3, 2008)

John
I'll let you know after I've scaled off all 12...LOL

Steve


----------



## Cedge (Jan 8, 2008)

Received a call from a local fire restoration contractor, that I know, this morning. I'd recently mentioned looking for sash weights and he said he'd keep on eye open. He informed that he had 11 free sash weights in his office for me if i still wanted them. I drove down to get them. 

One look and I fully understood the reluctance of a couple of posters to try using this material. These poor weights look like swiss cheese afflicted with bed sores. LOTS of large voids and air pockets. I now know for sure that there are major differences in quality among them. I recently bought 12 weights from a fellow that were nice clean wonderfully solid pieces of CI. I scaled them back by about 3/16 diameter and the rest is good usable metal. These latest weights are likely to yield only small flats if they are even usable at all. Truthfully, they could just as easily wind up in the trash.

Moral of the story is don't offhandedly discount using old sash weights, but check them closely to make sure they are solid well made pieces before dragging them home. It doesn't take a genius to spot the difference.... trust me....LOL Just another fine example of several varied experiences producing diametric opinions.... and all of them correct. 

Steve


----------



## dwentz (Jan 8, 2008)

I have played around with a few of these. Snap an end off by scoring it with a grinder. Then start your cut from the broken off end. The hard outer skin pops off. If you have a touch one, cut in a little more. The idea is to ge the skin to break off. This has worked for me, in the past.


Dale


----------

