# 'TUBAL CAIN'



## Jeff02

I have just received a copy of Building the Stuart No.9 written by Tubal Cain. I have also learned he has quite a name in the Model Machinist world.
Just wondering how many know the significance of the name, as for myself Im a 32nd Scottish Right.


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## tel

Don't know about the US, but in the UK and Oz Tubal Cain (Tom Walshaw) is well known, as is the origin of the name.

Old Tubal Cain was a man of might
In the days when the Earth was young;
By the fierce red light of his furnace bright
The strokes of his hammer rung;
And he lifted high his brawny hand
On the iron glowing clear,
Till the sparks rushed out in scarlet showers
And he fashioned the sword and spear.
And he sang "Hurra for the handiwork!
Hurra for the spear and sword!
Hurra for the hand that shall wield them well,
For he shall be king and lord!"


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## Deanofid

We know Tubal Cain in the US too. Most people who've been into model engineering for a while
have seen something by him, or have reference to him in various other publications from other authors.
Tubal Cain = Tom Walshaw here, too.

The origin of the name comes from the Bible, and is a simple, short mention in a section of genealogies.
He's noted as the son of a certain person, and that he knew metal work.

There is also a faker on You Tube who has kiped the name, and plainly passes himself off as the 
proper Tubal Cain, (the well known author). 

Dean


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## GordTopps

Tubalcain is a character mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, in Genesis 4:22. He was a descendant of Cain, the son of Lamech and Zillah, and the brother of Naamah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubal-cain

There is a guy on youtube goes by this name but he is not THE Tom Walshaw (just uses that alias)

Regards
Gordy


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## Jeff02

I think I saw a YouTube clip of him grinding lath bits.


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## Rod Cole

He was a very cunning worker in metal~


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## XD351

If you are reading a book by tubal cain it is Tom Walshaw , if you saw him on youtube it is Lyle peterson  aka mrpete222.


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## Rod Cole

I know the one from Lodge


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## Hopper

For many many years I always thought the name meant something about raising Cain with model boiler tubes. Doh!

I'm sure Mr Pete in the USA was blissfully unaware of Tom Walshaw's nom-de-plume when he took the Bible's first metalworker for his own net handle.  Why would anyone in America know anything about books published in England?


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## a41capt

Rod Cole said:


> I know the one from Lodge


The first artificer in metals, Brother of  Jubal, the inventor of music, an account of both of whom you will find in the fourth chapter of the Book of Genesis...

You mean that one?


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## Rod Cole

He's the one, I recall a story of him doing a lot of casting in a desert~


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## WOB

The original Tubal Cain's books were quite common in hobbyist metal working supplier catalogs in the USA starting in the early 80's because there were no other such books available.    Metal working as a hobby was basically invented by the Brit "model engineers" .  

The first imposter I heard about was on rec.crafts.metalworking many years ago.  He posted like an old-timer Brit expert.  Silly me, I thought he was the real Tubal Cain and emailed him to thank him for the books as they had helped me a lot getting started in the hobby.    He later admitted that he was not the real Tubal Cain and claimed to have adopted the name in "honor" of Tom Walshaw.   Pure BS.    He shortly thereafter quit using the name.

WOB


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## Rod Cole

10 to 15 years ago I picked up a "Mary" kit from Reeves, along with his book on building the it. When I saw the you-tube guy I knew it wasn't the same. The interesting part is figuring out who the Biblical guy was, seems to be a mythical god from just about every culture that fits the picture~


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## goldstar31

Rod Cole said:


> . The interesting part is figuring out who the Biblical guy was, seems to be a mythical god from just about every culture that fits the picture~



And more intriguing is Hiram Abiff


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## a41capt

goldstar31 said:


> And more intriguing is Hiram Abiff


Yep, there’s just something about a widow's son that makes 'em damn interesting. 

You must be a traveling man too, huh Rod? You’ll have to let my Brothers and I buy you dinner if you’re out Flagstaff AZ way on the first Thursday of the month.

WBLA,
John W
PM/DDGM
AZ F&AM


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## goldstar31

a41capt said:


> Yep, there’s just something about a widow's son that makes 'em damn interesting.
> 
> You must be a traveling man too, huh Rod? You’ll have to let my Brothers and I buy you dinner if you’re out Flagstaff AZ way on the first Thursday of the month.
> 
> WBLA,
> John W
> PM/DDGM
> AZ F&AM



Well, from the abbreviations and the whatever, I guess that you have occupied the Chair of Solomon- and possibly a Grand Master.
Presumably, this is an invitation to join as a guest in a festive board????

So I'm a PProvGPurs and oddly in a Oriental Lodge-- amongst other things.

So Fraternal Greetings and Every Good Wish.


Norman


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## a41capt

goldstar31 said:


> Well, from the abbreviations and the whatever, I guess that you have occupied the Chair of Solomon- and possibly a Grand Master.
> Presumably, this is an invitation to join as a guest in a festive board????
> 
> So I'm a PProvGPurs and oddly in a Oriental Lodge-- amongst other things.
> 
> So Fraternal Greetings and Every Good Wish.
> 
> 
> Norman


Sorry for the missed name Norman! Yep, you hit it on the head, ascendedto the East, currently serving the Grand Line as District Deputy Grand Master.

C'mon out and visit. We put on a great feed!

John


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## goldstar31

Oh W/Bro John but I'm an ancient Brit of almost 89 years now.  The cost of insuring  me is quite astronomical.

I 'made it to HongKong which has a delightful HQ under the joint English, Scottish and Irish  Constitutions and then on to  Fiji but old age, ill health and whatever do take their toll.

But back to KS, HKT and HA, It is quite a fascinating topic in the RA.   Being lowly in the pecking order, I do get invites to accompany Grand Lodge and Grand Chapter 'worthies' and enjoy every minute. As a widower now, I have the delight of a Grand Lodge and Chapter mate across the road from me especially as his wife makes me apple tarts. 

Oh and festive boards!  We have a regular Chinese New Year meeting with some 150-200 of us and tuck in to  the usual 15 to 20 courses. Isn't it a lovely way to contribute to charity and really enjoy ourselves too?

So mote it be

Norman


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## GrahamJTaylor49

To all my Brothers, I'm a Past Master of a craft Lodge in the UK and a current Master of a Mark lodge. Also a member of the Dorset Masonic Bikers Association. I have a collection of model engineering books by "Tubal Cain" and at the moment have a Stuart Turner Major beam engine and a 1" Maclaren road locomotive in the process of assembly. There are a couple of model engineers in my lodge and we sit and chew the fat at the festive board. I'm now 70 and starting to feel my age so I have installed central heating in my workshop. I can do without cold lathe chucks and milling fixtures. 
Anyway, back to play, can't decide what to do today, golf, engineering, photography, clay shooting or should I just sit here with my ritual book for the meeting on Monday.
Yours,
Sincerely and Fraternally


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## Rod Cole

a41capt said:


> Yep, there’s just something about a widow's son that makes 'em damn interesting.
> 
> You must be a traveling man too, huh Rod? You’ll have to let my Brothers and I buy you dinner if you’re out Flagstaff AZ way on the first Thursday of the month.
> 
> WBLA,
> John W
> PM/DDGM
> AZ F&AM


       Yes, headed east, and found my way to become PM Delta #153 Maine, we have an exceptional Lodge for a very small town. Half way between my house and Lodge we have what has been rated as the Number One Beer Bar in the world, "Ebenezers".


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## KellisRJ

Hopper said:


> For many many years I always thought the name meant something about raising Cain with model boiler tubes. Doh!
> 
> I'm sure Mr Pete in the USA was blissfully unaware of Tom Walshaw's nom-de-plume when he took the Bible's first metalworker for his own net handle.  Why would anyone in America know anything about books published in England?


Nope. Mr. Pete in a video acknowledges he isn't the Tom Walshaw "Tubal Cain" though, sorry, I can't recall which one or why he decided to use the name. I'm pretty sure it was one of, if not, the first. Perhaps it was simply the Biblical reference to metal working.


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## a41capt

GrahamJTaylor49 said:


> To all my Brothers, I'm a Past Master of a craft Lodge in the UK and a current Master of a Mark lodge. Also a member of the Dorset Masonic Bikers Association. I have a collection of model engineering books by "Tubal Cain" and at the moment have a Stuart Turner Major beam engine and a 1" Maclaren road locomotive in the process of assembly. There are a couple of model engineers in my lodge and we sit and chew the fat at the festive board. I'm now 70 and starting to feel my age so I have installed central heating in my workshop. I can do without cold lathe chucks and milling fixtures.
> Anyway, back to play, can't decide what to do today, golf, engineering, photography, clay shooting or should I just sit here with my ritual book for the meeting on Monday.
> Yours,
> Sincerely and Fraternally



WB Graham,

That locomotive sure sounds like a great project! I can’t say I blame you for passing on the ritual book if you’ve got clays to shoot today.  It’s my day to drive the 90 miles to Phoenix, Arizona to watch my grandson play American football, so no shop work today, even though I’m in the middle finishing my metal work on a Mauser conversion to .25-06 for a new deer hunting rifle for my upcoming deer hunt.  I’ve had to set aside my Moria fan project until I can complete the rifle, but you can bet I’ll be back to model engineering as soon as it’s completed!

WBLA,
John W
Camp Verde, Arizona, USA


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## a41capt

Rod Cole said:


> Yes, headed east, and found my way to become PM Delta #153 Maine, we have an exceptional Lodge for a very small town. Half way between my house and Lodge we have what has been rated as the Number One Beer Bar in the world, "Ebenezers".


WB Rod,
Of all the things I’ve had to quit over the years, I miss beer the most!

John W
PM Flagstaff Lodge No. 7
Flagstaff, AZ


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## stragenmitsuko

"Nope. Mr. Pete in a video acknowledges he isn't the Tom Walshaw "Tubal Cain"

Yes I've seen that video to . 
He mentions a british gentlemen who wrote several books , and then says offcourse that isn't me , that is another tubalcain


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## Rod Cole

a41capt said:


> WB Rod,
> Of all the things I’ve had to quit over the years, I miss beer the most!
> 
> John W
> PM Flagstaff Lodge No. 7
> Flagstaff, AZ


I had to give it up too, faulty liver, but once or twice a year I come real close to making a fool of myself and get some of the good stuff at that place. It's expensive, but you never run out of new ones to try!


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## a41capt

Mr. Pete's videos have some very useful information for newbies like me, there’s always something new to learn about this hobby!

Sometimes they get a bit long in description, but he has to level the playing field and reach out to the inexperienced as well as the seasoned.

He is, after all, a retired shop teacher and very much used to instruction.


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## goldstar31

a41capt said:


> Mr. Pete's videos have some very useful information for newbies like me, there’s always something new to learn about this hobby!



Three knocks---  Worshipful Master, there is a report! 

You have a PM


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## wce4

Mr Pete222 or also know as tubalcain has very useful information on his videos on YouTube , there’s always something new to learn about this and all other hobby's and I enjoy his stile of teaching. 
Mr. Pete in several videos acknowledges he isn't the Tom Walshaw "Tubal Cain" and also explains where the name tubalcain came from, for the biblical handicap. (“_Tubalcain_” in the KJV)


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## john_reese

I don't think he has progressed from being a school shop teacher.  I unsubscribed from his channel.


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## Mike Hart

I've learned a lot from Mr. Pete222. No one is perfect, but he is knowledgeable and is quite capable of imparting the knowledge to me and probably a great many other people as well. I'm grateful for his efforts and his incredible volume of work.   I've been a mechanic for many years and have come to machine work and engine building late in life. I'm almost 72 and it is most gratifying to learn new stuff. I purchased a 12" Grizzly lathe and have so far built a Stirling cycle engine and a 4 stroke hit and miss from an old air compressor. Great fun! I belong to an antique engine club, The North Florida Antique Engine Association, and exhibit my stuff at engine shows a lot. We have a show coming up the weekend of April 4,5, and 6 at the Stephen Foster State Park in White Springs, Fl. If you live anywhere within driving distance, come check it out. You could not find a friendlier bunch of guys. They are tremendously skilled and knowledgeable and helpful.


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## kevclar

John Reese,
Please point us to your “progressive” machinist’s Youtube channel. We are all ready to learn something new.
Regards


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## goldstar31

kevclar said:


> John Reese,
> Please point us to your “progressive” machinist’s Youtube channel. We are all ready to learn something new.
> Regards



Compared to the English greats such as Tom Walshaw, George Thomas and Prof Dennis Chaddock, he's sort of 'average'

Get a copy of the Quorn,  the Model Engineers Workshop and  Workshop Techniques a or any of Walshaw 'engine books are see what it is all about. 

I'm om my second copy of MEWM having worn the other one out.  Many years back, I made a Quorn. To use the words of the Prophet--------Argh!!!!!!!!

Norm

NB I visited an even older  guy than me.  He'd made almost all Thomas's stuff, had a highly developed Stent tool and cutter grinder- way beyond even the Quorn.  I was simply introducing him to the delights of Pure Lard Oil and brought some conventional cutting fluid as a comparison.  That sort of thing. 

We are still learning

Regards

Norm


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## XD351

I watch mrpete but found the “ that lazy machinist “ channel even better .


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## john_reese

kevclar, 

Thatlazymachinist
Abom 79
Build Something Cool
Clickspring
Comp Edge X
Dan Gelbart
Doubleboost
Home Metalworking Workshop
Joe Pieczynski   (really great)
Kieth Fenner
Mr PragmaticLee
Myfordboy
Oxtoolco
Pierre's Garage.
Stefan Gotteswinter  (really great)
Surbaban Tool
The joy of Precision
Toms Techniques
This Old Tony
ROBRENZ (very advanced)


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## Kenny Broomfield

I like MyFordBoy but really wish he would talk in his videos. There are times i would like more explanation than what he does with the sub titles. There fore i don't watch him as much as others.


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## Kenny Broomfield

What about Keith Appleton. I enjoy his model engineering videos a lot. I guess that is why I still like Tubal Cain because that is one of his focus. Most of those other guys that you mention that I am familiar with rarely dabble with true model engineering as I like it.


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## john_reese

Kenny Broomfield said:


> I like MyFordBoy but really wish he would talk in his videos.


Olfoundryman is very good and he narrates.


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## XD351

For model engineering or making models Emmas spare room machine shop is another channel i like . For general machining interests there is machineNZ , chirpy’s tinkering, cam at battler ,the recreational machinist ,Bruce whitham, Randy Richard in the shop and tommy gun machining .
Another is Mrcrispin but he seems to have gone awol for the moment .
For blacksmith stuff i like this channel   https://www.youtube.com/user/torbjornahman
For those trying to learn arduino i like Paul mcworter , he is the guy that got me addicted to arduino - damn you Paul ! 
Then there is a pile of channels i watch for 3D printing , electronics and fishing .


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## kquiggle

john_reese  - That's a nice list, I'm familiar with a lot of them, but there are some new to me I will have to check out. I hope this post is not going too far off topic, but I appreciate the other channel mentions also, if anybody else would care to chip in.

If you have a favorite channel (or channels) I would appreciate a link, brief description, and why you like it; but please keep it machining related only.

For my own short list of youtube channels go to the link below and scroll down to Youtube Channels:

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/useful-links#videos

The list needs to be updated, which I will do in the next little while  . . .


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## jdurnya

Mr Pete is great..

i like this guy too  https://www.youtube.com/c/RaptorMachineToolCo


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## Rod Cole

I find all these you-tube guys very interesting & valuable, however it's too easy to spend too much time dreaming (watching)!! What would be handy is an index here with a listing of issues we run into, and you-tube videos listed as solutions for same~


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## Kenny Broomfield

Now that is a beautiful idea Rod.


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## kquiggle

Don't forget you can search youtube if you are looking for a specific machine, method, etc. It's far from foolproof; I've used it more than a few time to try to find a video I watched before (but couldn't quite remember where) - sometimes I find it sometimes not. But I have also used it to search for specific methods or machines with a pretty good success rate.

Rod - an index of the type you suggest would be very useful. While it's not quite what you suggest, I have been compiling a list of "useful links" along similar lines for some time. Mostly it is links to web pages, but I have also included some links to videos. For anyone interested the list is posted here:

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/useful-links


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## paulrayner

this guy is good-
*no23mk2*
*also this one but he hasn't posted in a while-*
*MrCrispin*


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## Kenny Broomfield

Thanks. Just subscribed to the no23mk2 guy. He looks interesting.


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## oilmac

Guys, I am intrigued by the amount of experts you all are mentioning, some good others not so, Myfordboy, all i can say is the following, My old foreman moulder would have been last seen  chasing him through  Glasgow south ,into Glasgow Central and then Glasgow east holding a long rammer to shove up his posterior, He did not suffer fools gladly!  Many years ago approx  the mid to late 1950 era my hero whose writings put me very much on sound tracks was a prolific writer in The Model Engineer namely Edgar T Westbury, At this present time I am working on one of his designs  The Unicorn Engine, He also did a series on The Model Engineer Beam Engine, His methodology was at the time  geared around a period in British history when the average model engineer did not have a lot of spare cash 
  Edgar T WEstbury was actually  Warrent Officer Edgar T Westbury ex Royal Navy , an engine room artificer 1st. class , who rose from the position of a stoker to officer grade , By all accounts he rose from very humble beginnings, He was a wizard with small internal combustion engine design, He also designed a small steam plant for charging batteries  for radio transmission behind enemy lines in the jungle in the 1939-46 era they were silent , and the whole caboodle could be packed inside its boiler , the size of a pressure cooker and would be carried by a paratrooper during parashute drops.  -- An all time great!


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## Kenny Broomfield

I am guessing that you are not a fan of Myfordboy? I am curious as to why? I am not trained in the arts that he does. As I said i also don't watch him much, prefer those that speak more. But I am curious as to why you don't like him.


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## goldstar31

Did this small generator ever see active service- and if so where is there an example please?


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## deverett

During WW2,  Stuart Turner made a portable generator set based around their Sirius engine and presumably one of their own design boilers.  The whole was packed into a wooden box and easily portable.  Existing examples come up from time to time at auction sales, including eBay.
These generating sets were used in Norway, but that doesn't mean they weren't used in other theatres of war.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## Myian

I am no expert so cannot give a definitive answer to the skills shown by Myfordboy. However he appears to produce some excellent work and I like the fact that he does not possess all of the professional equipment that you might think are necessary and finds some interesting ways of working without these. I would be interested to hear constructive criticism where improvements could be made to inform others. 

Ian with very limited kit in the UK.


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## PSP

"_My old foreman moulder would have been last seen chasing him through Glasgow south ,into Glasgow Central and then Glasgow east holding a long rammer to shove up his posterior_."
I too have seen this sort of behaviour in Glasgow.  A place best avoided, in my opinion.
Andy


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## oilmac

PSP said:


> "_My old foreman moulder would have been last seen chasing him through Glasgow south ,into Glasgow Central and then Glasgow east holding a long rammer to shove up his posterior_."
> I too have seen this sort of behaviour in Glasgow.  A place best avoided, in my opinion.
> Andy


  My old foreman moulder was the nicest kindest man one could have met, a gentleman in every sense, Who led his men by example, He did not countenance shoddy work, If your mould was not finished to perfection heaven help you! The Glasgow folk of my era were the most highly skilled and generous I have ever come across (By the way I am not a Glaswegian) Just proud to have in the past worked there.  Oil Mac.


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## KellisRJ

deverett said:


> During WW2,  Stuart Turner made a portable generator set based around their Sirius engine and presumably one of their own design boilers.  The whole was packed into a wooden box and easily portable.  Existing examples come up from time to time at auction sales, including eBay.
> These generating sets were used in Norway, but that doesn't mean they weren't used in other theatres of war.
> 
> Dave
> The Emerald Isle


https://www.stationroadsteam.com/stuart-mk814-generating-set-stock-code-3952/


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