# Die Filer



## kiwi2 (Oct 8, 2015)

Hi,
    I came across a die filer here:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bM3Jhy_3TU[/ame] at about 4'30" in. 
It looks to be really useful. It struck me that rather than driving the file from below, it might be possible to use an old sewing machine and drive it from the top. The old Singers were built like a brick outhouse so should have the required rigidity. They seem to be available for $50 or so.
Has anyone tried this?
Regards,
Alan C.


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## goldstar31 (Oct 8, 2015)

Actually, there is or was a lot of information on using old/now worthless sewing machines in Model Engineer.

Having said all that, modern jig saws are probably easier/and probably cheaper to convert. 

As a hint to myself, I wonder whether I should dump my old Model Engineer /Workshop files- nobody seems to use the information any more

Norman


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## charlesfitton (Oct 8, 2015)

As a hint to myself, I wonder whether I should dump my old Model Engineer /Workshop files- nobody seems to use the information any more

Norman[/QUOTE]


WHOA THERE! I pick up vintage ME magazines wherever I can. I have great respect for what these (guys) did in the early days, with practically nothing. I can spend far too much time browsing.

f


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## barnesrickw (Oct 8, 2015)

Great video.  Now I have the urge to fix up that 50 year old jig saw my grandfather gave me when I was a kid.


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## Wizard69 (Oct 12, 2015)

kiwi2 said:


> Hi,
> I came across a die filer here:
> >>deleted link<<. at about 4'30" in.



That looks like a Metal Lathe Accessories filer.  It is a kit built machine that is fairly popular.  


> It looks to be really useful. It struck me that rather than driving the file from below, it might be possible to use an old sewing machine and drive it from the top.


These days the big challenge is finding the actual files that go into a die filer.  Not many are made anymore.  

As for driving from the top it might not be that bad of an idea and would allow the use of normal files.    


> The old Singers were built like a brick outhouse so should have the required rigidity. They seem to be available for $50 or so.
> Has anyone tried this?
> Regards,
> Alan C.




Many of the old sewing machines are rather worn out so may require a bit of TLC.   That isn't the big problem though as the quil on sewing machines isn't robust enough for file mounting.  Of course that can be dealt with in a machine shop.


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## Blogwitch (Oct 12, 2015)

Die filers are a thing of the past with modern day machining and edm machines, but for use in a home workshop, they are ideal, saving hours of usually painfully sore fingers.

As already mentioned, sewing machines aren't really up to the job if you are cutting anything other that thin non ferrous materials.

Files are still available, at a price, but it is easy enough to grind a tang on the hard end of a normal file so then it can be held the correct way in the file holder. Parallel round chainsaw files are a very cheap alternative to round ones, but all the other specialist shapes really do need to be purpose made ones.













I am lucky that my die filer has all it's bits, including the overhead tensioning unit that allows me to use very fine files or even saw blades






John


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## kiwi2 (Oct 15, 2015)

Hi,

      Thanks for all the comments.
 I'm in the process of selling off my old EMCO lathe/mill combination at the moment and have ordered a Sieg SX2.7 mill and SC4 lathe which should arrive towards the end of November.
Once I have that out of the way I think I'll have a crack at converting an old sewing machine.
If I do I'll post updates as I go.

Alan C.


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## canadianhorsepower (Oct 15, 2015)

Blogwitch said:


> Die filers are a thing of the past with modern day machining and edm machines, but for use in a home workshop, they are ideal, saving hours of usually painfully sore fingers.
> 
> As already mentioned, sewing machines aren't really up to the job if you are cutting anything other that thin non ferrous materials.
> 
> ...




Any Idea wher can I get some files like this

cheers


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## tomrux (Oct 15, 2015)

falcon tools list them but better be sitting down when you go look.

Tom R


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## barnesrickw (Oct 15, 2015)

Can they be made out of regular files?


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## Blogwitch (Oct 16, 2015)

B,
As I stated in my above post, you can grind a holding arbor onto the bottom of a normal file and then grind the normal tang off. You have to do this as a proper die filer cuts on the downwards stroke, being pulled from below.
You will be lucky if you can use anything larger than a 3/8" and 1/4"smallest width or diameter file, and really, unless you have the tensioning fixture (as in my pictures) you won't be able to use smaller files or blades because they will easily snap off without it if you put a little too much pressure on them.
Again, as stated above, chainsaw files work very well, but really, you need to obtain a few of the correct files so that you can get into tight corners.

I have found that the most useful ones are the Pippin, Half Round, 3 Square and Pillar plus a few round chainsaw files of different sizes will allow you to shape and get into almost anything.

Hope this helps

John

Files obtainable from

http://www.artcotools.com/parallel-machine-file-type-b.html (these also do half sets at a good price)

http://www.falcontool.com/Section-1/Parallel-Machine-Files

http://www.fedfile.com/parallel.htm

And for a full set (works out cheaper if you need  the lot)

http://www.msdiscount.com/columnar.aspx?cat_id=5958&referer=&sessioncookieset&referer=http%3A//www.wentztech.com/metalworking/equipment/die-filer/&compidcookieset


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## Wizard69 (Oct 17, 2015)

tomrux said:


> falcon tools list them but better be sitting down when you go look.
> 
> Tom R




Yikes!    I was sitting down when I looked and just about fell off my chair.       The nice thing is they had burrs and mounted wheels at reasonable prices.


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## Blogwitch (Oct 17, 2015)

Why do people's anal sphincters twitch when they have to spend money on some tooling, are they expecting a supplier to provide something for nothing? Would those people who do moan give something away for nothing? I know I don't complain, but on the other hand, I have also given away thousands of pounds worth of machinery and tooling to appreciative modellers, but never to those who moan about prices.

If you want some sort of machinery or tooling, then you have to pay the going rate, otherwise just forget about it and do without.

I have had to do without for most of my life, making do and buying second hand when I could afford it, but I never complained about a suppliers prices if they were reasonable. Only now can I afford to buy anything I like (and I don't believe in credit), so please, think before asking questions, people try their hardest to give decent and accurate answers, only to have the answers poo-pooed because they were not down to a price they expected.

If you want to be able to afford such items, then give up drinking, smoking or whatever so you can afford the prices the suppliers demand.

I do hope you get the message, if you want something that badly, and can't afford it, you have to do without somewhere else so you can.

John


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## 10K Pete (Oct 17, 2015)

I just looked at those Falcon files and the prices are right in line for any
decent file.

Thanks for a source as I had just about given up finding new ones!!

Pete


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## kiwi2 (Oct 18, 2015)

Hi,
     Here is a link to the website of the guy who posted the video at the start of this thread. It describes his die filer which he made from a kit of castings.
http://www.clickspringprojects.com/die-filer-or-bench-filing-machine.html 

 He says:

"Andy also gives clear instructions on how to make the parallel machine  files, from common hand files. Parallel machine files of the correct  size and cut are not available in my area, and hard to find worldwide,  so this is important."

This may be of interest to those of you looking for files.

Regards,
Alan C.


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## cfellows (Oct 18, 2015)

Rather than use a sewing machine, how about using a saber saw for a top mount machine?  I saw one somewhere but don't remember where...

Chuck


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## Blogwitch (Oct 18, 2015)

Chuck,

With regards to home made machines from other machines.

You only have to look at a normal sewing machine, and notice that it has a very slim power shaft, 1/2" at most because they only have to transmit the power in one direction with no side loads, only end loads.
If you are going to be using swiss files, then fine, you may get away with it, but for real use you need that large spindle because of the side loads that are imposed upon it.

The spindle on mine is about 1.5" diameter running in PB plain bearings, and I think that almost all are about this size or larger to withstand the cutting forces. My machine must now be well over 50 years old, and shows no sign of wear at all. 

John


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## Dunc1 (Oct 27, 2015)

Harold Hall wrote a die-filer construction article for Model Engineers' Workshop.
The entire article is here: http://www.homews.co.uk/page475.html

On this page http://www.homews.co.uk/page497.html he has a few very useful tips about adapting hand files to his machine.


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## kiwi2 (Nov 26, 2015)

Hi All,
            I managed to pick up an old Singer sewing machine. After a fierce bidding war I got it for $2. There's a guy here who buys old the Singers mounted on tables with cast iron legs, takes off the machine, puts a nice top on the table and sells the tables which are apparently popular with interior decorators. He then sells off the machines.
I've stripped off all the extraneous bits and I now have just the flywheel/pulley, crankshaft, eccentric and the oscillating shaft. There's another shaft alongside it which, when they are connected with a toolmakers clamp (see picture) go up and down nicely together.
I've heard the expression "operating like a sewing machine" but pulling this one apart makes me appreciate just how nicely these things were made. Very impressive workmanship.
Anyway, my eventual aim is to make a mount which will attach to both shafts (to spread the load) and to attach the files to it so they are beyond the end of the machine. Unfortunately I have got rid of my old lathe/mill and there seems to be a holdup in my new lathe and mill arriving.
In the meantime I thought I would try to get the motor and drive sorted out. I would like to make it a variable speed drive so I've been thinking of using a stepper motor. I was thinking of perhaps a 100Watt (about 1/8HP) device. I'm prepared to spend a bit on a motor and controller as I could possibly use it on other things as well.
The trouble is I'm pretty ignorant about these devices. Is a stepper motor the right device to use to get a variable speed drive or should I be looking at a DC motor.
Any suggestions/advice would be gratefully received.
Regards,
Alan C.


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