# Scuderi engine



## ariz (Aug 17, 2009)

hello!
well, I'm not sure that this is the right section to post, because I'm not one that takes photos and documents every step of the building
there are here some fellows that are very good in this: it come to mind Maryak, but many others take the photocam in the shop for every occurrence
however, at times I'll post my progresses, but (moderator) feel free to move the thread

after 2 steam engine I wanted to try an IC engine, and after a bit of searching I chose the Scuderi engine
I found it on the Jan Ridders web site http://heetgasmodelbouw.ridders.nu/index.htm
it is also on a web site of 'strange' engines, but I can't remember the address

the scuderi engine is a four stroke engine with 2 cylinders, one to compress the air/fuel (without valves, it has a ball with a spring to control the flow) and the second that is a normal 4 stroke cylinder, with 2 valves and a spark plug.
to me it seems a sort of a supercharged engine, but nobody refer to it in this way

Jan Ridder is a good fellow, he send the plans to everyone on request, for free

I started the built a couple of weeks ago, and here there are the pics of the 2 cylinders with heads and pistons












I have a lot of small ball bearings and so I went with 2 of these instead to buy 2 new ball bearings of the correct size: mine are a bit greater in thickness and protrude a bit. I'll fix this later

and as always I can't find cast iron to build the cylinders and pistons: can you guess what I used instead?

oh yes, titanium ;D I fear that I'll have to fix (read re-make) also these pieces, I don't know how titanium will react to the heat of the power cylinder


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## NickG (Aug 17, 2009)

Ariz,

This is an interesting engine, I remember watching it unfold as Jan developed it. Not sure about the titanium, at least your piston and cyl is the same material so should be ok. Time will tell! Good luck.

Nick


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## Maryak (Aug 17, 2009)

Ariz,

Nice start on your IC engine. :bow:

Thanks for the honourable mention.

Best Regards
Bob


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## GailInNM (Aug 17, 2009)

Ariz,
This is the right place for your thread.
Regardless of the level of detail, a lot of us will be following it with interest.
Just do what ever you are comfortable with.

For those not familiar with the Scuderi engine, the link below will take them directly to Jan's Scuderi page, and the second link will take you to a photo of his prototype engine. On the Scuderi page there are more photos and a link to his video of his engine running.

http://heetgasmodelbouw.ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_scuderi_viertakt/scuderi_frameset.htm
http://heetgasmodelbouw.ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_scuderi_viertakt/finalefoto3.jpg

Looking forward to the successful completion of your new project. 
Thanks for taking us along for the ride.

Gail in NM


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## ariz (Sep 27, 2009)

well, it's about one month from while I was writing in the 'break room' the post 'a bad moment', so is time to restore my habits and go on with the engine

not many parts, but there are some pics

first the 2 heads (one with valves and one without)
















the edge of the head isn't ruined, it's only swarf
but there is a part that needs a bit of adjustment, if you watch under the valve, the seat has the signs of the counterbore and must be polished
these pieces were built a month ago, before the many disasters that occurred
here there is one of them: a perfect part ruined with a too strong silver soldering session (too much heat, parts deformed...)






the other pieces that I destroyed were the 2 crankshafts, so this weekend I rebuild them. the pics show the jigs that I built to work the parts between centers, the setup and the finished crankshafts (to be polished)































I made the 2 vertical mounting plates too, but I forgot to take pics
ok, it isn't a great return, only few parts, but it is a start, isn't it?


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## gbritnell (Sep 27, 2009)

I noticed in the picture of your head with the valves installed that the seat area was all chattered. Unless you were planning on doing something else with the seat it won't seal like that. It needs to be perfectly smooth and concentric with the valve. 
gbritnell


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## ariz (Sep 27, 2009)

thanks gbrittnel for the suggestion
I knew that the seat can't seal in this way
what do you suggest to solve the problem?
I thinked to put a few abrasive on the upper side of the valve and move it around from its stem till the seat was levelled
but it seems a long process ;D


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## Paolo (Sep 27, 2009)

Hi ariz
Well done! Nice start on your engine..
Paolo


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## Bluechip (Sep 27, 2009)

Ariz

Not quite sure if this is appropriate, but, if you cut the valve seat with a countersink, ie, the 90 deg. multi-edge type, they cause chatter anyway. 

I stopped using them some years ago. This type is better for most applications ..

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21819&name=countersink&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0

They are fairly common, no need to get from above ..

But, BEWARE, some countersinks are 82 deg. included angle.

You can even make your own.

Of course, if you didn't use a countersink ... ignore this  ;D

Dave


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 27, 2009)

More than a start Ariz. Glad you're back at it.
Looking forward to more.
I have a lot to learn and this thread is helping.


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## arnoldb (Sep 28, 2009)

Hi Ariz - glad to see you're posting again 

The parts look good so far  Thm: - I'm sure you'll build a good engine !

Kind regards, Arnold


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## ariz (Sep 28, 2009)

thank you my friends, your support is always important for me 



bluechip, good suggestion on those chatter-free countersinks


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## ariz (Sep 29, 2009)

little work on the 2 vertical plates

after having drilled several holes of different diameter, time to enlarge 3 + 3 holes from 13 to 26 mm to accept the ball bearings
I did it with the boring head: speed 180 rpm, cut about 1,2 mm x pass (50/1000 inch); HSS tool






this is the final result on the first plate; tomorrow the second. the marks on the plate were there when I bought it, I need to find some way to mask them






cheers


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## NickG (Oct 1, 2009)

This is looking great. I love Jan's engines. Will have to make one, there are a couple on my list of projects!


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## ariz (Oct 6, 2009)

when I was young (very young, 13 years old) there was a mechanic near me, and I passed many time in his shop watching at every thing he was doing
I remember the manner he used to adapt new valves in their seat when replacing old valves
so I tried to do the same: applied some abrasive paste on the seat and moving the valve from the steam with my manual battery powered drill, with great care because I don't want to flex the valve's steam
it seems to work, but I need a more aggressive abrasive to finish them (I had only a very light water based abrasive paste at home). here some pics
















then I mounted the cylinders with heads onto the vertical plate and the base, to see how it may appears











this is the horrible air reservoir that goes on the compression cylinder, after the catastrophic silver soldering session 






obviously I have made another one, hope to don't repeat the same errors :-X






in this engine there are so many threaded pieces that I didn't want to change from tailstock drill chuck to the home made dies holder every time, and I found that using the drill chuck to help in maintaining the die perpendicular to the piece is very useful (but it isn't a my idea, I saw it somewhere, maybe here also)











tomorrow I'll try to silver solder the new air reservoir: if I'll fail again, I'll leave this hobby forever 

 :big: :big: :big: no no, it's impossible, I was joking


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## RobWilson (Oct 6, 2009)

LOOKING GREAT Ariz :bow: :bow: :bow:
Very interesting build, the engine is on my long list of things to build ;D

Regards Rob Thm:


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## vlmarshall (Oct 6, 2009)

Looking good. 
When you're lapping valves, hop the valve off the seat every few revolutions; this'll let the lapping paste shift around a bit and avoid cutting grooves in the valve or seat.


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## zeeprogrammer (Oct 6, 2009)

You scared me there ariz. Very glad you were joking.
Looking very good.
Best of luck on the next round of silver soldering.


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## crankshafter (Oct 7, 2009)

Hi ariz.
Nice work. A tip regarding the valve seats: Do not make them so vide: easier to lap easier to have them seal  
CS


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## ariz (Oct 7, 2009)

thank you all for your kindly words and suggestions

today I tried to silver solder the air reservoir again, and this time the work is good, the soldered part is almost invisible
the other pieces for now are only threaded, I think to fix them with some loctite without to solder them






I discovered, while taking the pic, that I made an error on the head of the compression cylinder: the inlet isn't at right hand, but on the left
so I have to remake it. fortunately, of both heads, this one is the simpliest ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Oct 7, 2009)

Congratulations on the silver soldering ariz.
(I'll need some of your support when I get around to doing silver soldering myself.)


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## ariz (Dec 28, 2009)

well, I'm here again, after much time, with some new pieces of the scuderi engine
they are the results of several weeks (or months!?) of work
I don't know why, but I'm more slow now then when I was a newbee (ok, I'm still a newbe, with more practise  )
perhaps I now look for a better result and I do prefer to discard a piece that doesn't fit well instead to try to correct/fix it

there are 3 tooth belt cog wheels that synchronize, by the mean of the tooth belt, distribution, ignition and the movement of the 2 pistons
I bought a ruled rod of aluminum and bilt the 3 cog wheels







here there are the 2 plates with the roller bearings in seat






with the shafts






and with part of the distribution system: the guiding block for the pushing rods and for the rockers that push the intake and exhaust valves (sorry for the poor pics)
















on the opposite plate the situation is more complex 

there are many tensioning wheels for the tooth belt: these 2 first






and another that originally was this one











but I discovered that the ruled rod that I had bought was too small in diameter, and the tooth belt remained loosened. so that tensioning wheel must be replaced.
this time I decided to make it in a single piece of aluminum
















but the belt was loosened again and after several mods (aesthetically not very satisfactory) the problem was solved in this way






here the belt is mounted for a test with provisional shafts











while here the 2 plates are mounted on the base with their own shafts and the tooth belt is properly tensioned: everything seems to turn well and without any effort











the great disk of brass on the lower right is the cam disk for ignition

now I can return to work on the outside  to complete the fuel system, the vapour carb and several other parts that have to be made
and I have to conceive a way to give the ignition at the spark plug, and to build the spark plug too...
I guess that I'm still far to the end of this build ;D


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## NickG (Dec 28, 2009)

Fantastic progress Ariz. That looks a complicated beast but you are onto a winner now. :bow:

Thanks for the update.

Nick


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 28, 2009)

Welcome back Ariz. Thanks for the update. Looking good!


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## gbritnell (Dec 28, 2009)

Hi Ariz, glad to see you back. Your engine is coming along great. It looks like you have the valve seat finish worked out. If the size was a little smaller (seat area) it would be easier to get a good seal.
gbritnell


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## Deanofid (Dec 29, 2009)

Excellent, Ariz. Glad to see you back with this engine. 



> perhaps I now look for a better result and I do prefer to discard a piece that doesn't fit well instead to try to correct/fix it



Again, excellent!

Dean


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## ariz (Jan 6, 2010)

time to bore the head of the power cylinder for the spark plug
it has an angle of 15° and following your suggestions (particularly the Mklotz one) I bought this set






here the setup











the finished bore






but, speaking of the CRS syndrome  , when I mounted the head for a test I noticed that the spark plug bore was in the wrong syde of the head :'( :'( :'(






anyway, some other pics
















waiting for a solution to this mistake, I thinked to build the fuel tank, a cylinder of brass that is about 40 mm in diameter and 80 mm long
using my greatest drill bit, 34 mm






after some turning, the finished cylinder ready for the next steps






I have already silver soldered the air intake tube to the fuel tank, but didn't take pics yet

thank you for viewing


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## NickG (Jan 6, 2010)

Looking fantastic ariz, can't be far off a run! :bow:


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## arnoldb (Jan 6, 2010)

Good going Ariz - looking forward to more 

And I like your cutting fluid feed Thm: 

Regards, Arnold


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## kustomkb (Jan 6, 2010)

very nice work!! It is looking great.


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## Deanofid (Jan 6, 2010)

I hope you can find a solution to the spark plug problem, Ariz! Even with that "little" problem, the engine is looking great. Nice work, for sure.

Dean


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## Deferr (Jan 6, 2010)

This build just might get me into building an IC engine next. It has also inspired me that I'm not the only one to remake parts. Great Work!!!


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## ariz (Jan 7, 2010)

thanks to everybody

I have completed the fuel tank (well, it is a 'vapour carburator')
time to think at the ignition system now :











but I have a doubt: can the plexyglass resist the gasoline?


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## NickG (Jan 9, 2010)

I presume you don't need a clear end in the tank, is it just for effect or to see when the thing is running out and that you don't over fill it?

Nice work Ariz by the looks of what other people of done, hopefully, the "vapour carb" can take a lot of heartache out of it!

Nick


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## kvom (Jan 9, 2010)

Great progress! Following along.


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## cfellows (Jan 9, 2010)

A lot of nice work has gone into this engine. Very interesting project.

Chuck


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## ksouers (Jan 9, 2010)

Great work, ariz.

Can't wait to see this one running. It's going to be a treat, I'll bet.


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## Deanofid (Jan 9, 2010)

I must have missed your fuel tank post the other day, Ariz. Very attractive!

Dean


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## Maryak (Jan 10, 2010)

Ariz,

You make beautiful parts and engines. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## ariz (Jan 11, 2010)

thank you mates, all of you :-*

I found on ebay an old coil with points and condenser from a motorbike and am waiting for them to arrive (hope that they work again!)

I'm looking for the gbritnell's thread about making a spark plug, but can't find it ???


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## GailInNM (Jan 11, 2010)

> I'm looking for the gbritnell's thread about making a spark plug, but can't find it



http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5653.msg59768#msg59768

Gail in NM


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## ariz (Jan 12, 2010)

thank you Gail


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## ariz (Jan 14, 2010)

well, yesterday I made the spark plug per gbritnell's instructions
so, there aren't pics of that, it's worth to see the original one (gbritnell's thread) 

the spark plug isn't finished jet and the pic is bad, but here it is








but I'm here also to post *a question*
at this point I have a coil with capacitor and points, these:






I thinked to connect a 6V battery to the coil (it has 2 plugs + the high voltage one) and then connect the other plug to ground with the points between (and the condenser too)

something like this:






but the label on the coil reads that it's an AC coil (alternate current)
so, what can I do? is it possible to connect it to a battery (DC current) or not?

I have another 6V coil too, more recent that the old one that is up, but it has 4 wires + ground + high voltage, so there aren't possibilities for me to know how it can be connected :-\







any thought? thank you


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## GOOFY063 (Jan 14, 2010)

nice work, looking forward to seeing it run ;D
goofy063


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## NickG (Jan 14, 2010)

Ariz,

Your diagram looks fine to me. Stupid question but are you sure AC is not the make of the coil? Surely it's a car coil so should just run off a battery, a car alternator must produce a dc surely despite the name?! Am a bit confused myself now!

I'm 99% sure that coil will work. Can't help you on the smaller modern one though

Nick


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## cobra428 (Jan 14, 2010)

Sure it's not the brand AC Delco
IGN runs on DC

http://www.acdelco.com/index.jsp

Tony


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## GailInNM (Jan 14, 2010)

Ariz,
I think the others probably have it right that the AC is part of the brand name or part number.

The Test lamp in your circuit may give you a problem. When the points open the collapsing magnetic field of the coil will charge the capacitor to about 400 volts. Then this 400 volt discharge through the coil is what gives you the high voltage. The test lamp may load the 400 volt build up enough that you will not get the desired high voltage or if it is a LED+resistor the LED will probably get destroyed. 

Gail in NM


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## ariz (Jan 23, 2010)

well, I have almost finished the engine, the only missing part is the ignition system

here there are some pics














































I tried to mount the coil and buttons that I had, but they didn't worked
now I have bought an ignition system from hemingway kit: it has an hall effect sensor and a little circuit board that amplifies the signal of the sensor and triggers the coil
but it isn't arrived yet, so I'm stopped now
as soon as the ignition system arrives I'll try the engine to see if it runs or not...


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## Maryak (Jan 23, 2010)

Ariz,

Looks superb. :bow:

How long to the running video. ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## Deanofid (Jan 23, 2010)

It looks terrific, Ariz. A very good contrast between the different metals, not to mention an interesting design. 
Here's hoping you have a runner soon!

Dean


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## Seanol (Jan 24, 2010)

Ariz,
That is beautiful! I love the timing belt!

Can't wait to see it run.

Sean


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## doc1955 (Jan 24, 2010)

I have to agree that is beautiful :bow: 
Can't wait to see it running.


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## ariz (Jan 24, 2010)

thank you mates, I too am impatient to see if it runs or not

Jan Ridders, the designer of the engine, says that there are several critical points to observe in the timing sequence and also the spark has to occour in a very narrow range

the scuderi isn't really a four stroke engine, because the spark occours every revolution, like in a two stroke engine
but it has inlet and exhaust valves like a four stroke
it is a three stroke engine :big: 

however, I'm waiting for the kit to arrive from 'hemingway kits', GB
after having paid I received only an email that confirmed the payment, nothing about the time of delivery and so on :-\


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 24, 2010)

Wow ariz. Nice looking engine. Very nice. I look forward to the video!


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## rudydubya (Jan 24, 2010)

Great work ariz. And I've also been very impressed with your photography all during your build. Nicely done. We're all looking forward to the video.

Rudy


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## joe d (Jan 24, 2010)

That looks really fine, Ariz. I've been following along, and am anxious to see it running too!

Cheers, Joe


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## ariz (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm in a hurry, but I want to report the kindly behavior of Kirk Burwell of Hemingway kits

the ignition kit that I ordered some days ago arrived this morning, and in the afternoon I started to assemble the kit

for some unknown reason (@#&!ç*) I broke the hall effect sensor and so I emailed to Kirk to order a new one

he has replyed that he will send a replacement sensor tomorrow and that no money is required! 

I'm very happy with this vendor now and wanted to let you know it (excuse my english, it's late and I'm tired)


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## Deanofid (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks for letting us know about Mr. Burwell's good service, Ariz. 
By the way, you don't need to make any apologies for your English! 

Dean


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## cobra428 (Jan 27, 2010)

Ariz,
Very Very Nice
I can't wait for the vid either :bow: :bow: :bow:

Tony


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## NickG (Jan 27, 2010)

Ariz,

Sounds like you got good service from there. Good luck with the kit this time. Do you need to use a heat sink when soldering the sensor etc?

Nick

ps can't wait to see this running either!


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## ariz (Feb 28, 2010)

hi friends

unfortunately I'm here only to report that all my attempts to get the engine running are miserably failed :-

as I mentioned in another post, I was unable to solve the problem with the TIM-6 ignition system, probably I damaged the coil leaving the system in an 'open' state (or whatever is called: as when the breacker points are open) and I never saw it working

so I bought an ignition system from Apache, a CDI system this time
it costs less than the TIM-6 + coil, and it worked immediately
the spark, also with the plug that I built by myself, was nice and strong

at this point I was enough optimist and I started to believe that a running engine was near to be seen

I spent several time to check the timing of the engine, a very critical point for the designer J. Ridders







but today I surrendered myself: I'm not able to get this engine to run
*so I declare finished this build, and I enumerate it as a complete failure* 
it was fun to build anyway, and surely I learned a lot, but it doesn't run :-

here there are the pics of my last attempts, today afternoon:
















now I will spent some time in the shop to make tools and reorganize the shop, and after that I will start the build of a simple IC engine (plans by Ron's modelenginenews.org)
probably the Scuderi was not the ideal choice for my first IC engine: another lesson learned, be humble, be humble, be humble and go ahead step by step


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## ksouers (Feb 28, 2010)

Ariz,
Sorry to hear things are not working well.

Perhaps just setting this project aside for awhile will help to rethink what is happening with this engine. Glad to hear you plan another project, perhaps that will give you some insight to get the Scuderi running.


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## kendo (Feb 28, 2010)

HI Ariz,
      Its not a complete failure at all, Its still a great build and a beautiful
      looking engine.
      You Never know, if you leave it or a while and go back to it,you may
      get it running some time in the future. You just need a break from it 
      that's all.
      I'm pleased to hear its not put you off future builds.

           Best Regards

                       Ken


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## Philjoe5 (Feb 28, 2010)

Hi Ariz,
I'm with Ken and Kevin. You've built a nice looking engine plus you shared your efforts with us so a karma to you. Many (most, all ?) of us have had similar engine builds that just refuse to run. With experience or just talking to other modelers you may gain some insight and get it to run yet,

Cheers,
Phil


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## cfellows (Feb 28, 2010)

Ariz, I don't see any air mixer in the fuel line? Do you have a mixer between the tank and the engine to allow the introduction of air? That type of tank requires extra air since the mixture coming straight from the tank is too rich.

Chuck


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## Maryak (Feb 28, 2010)

Ariz,

Listen to Chuck, :bow: and it's a beautiful piece of machining. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## zeeprogrammer (Feb 28, 2010)

I'm glad others have chimed in...

My immediate thought was that it is NOT a complete failure. Not only have you learned a lot....but you gave the opportunity to learn to others as well. Thank you.

It's a great looking engine...and I'd place a bet that you'll return to it....in some form or another.

I'm very happy you will 'go ahead step by step'.


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## Longboy (Feb 28, 2010)

...........Dead and burried I don't think so! This is just a time to stand back and refresh oneself. You put so much time into these puppys and when ready for the premier they sit in silence. You get madder and madder to the point of overlooking something simple to something deeper and become reluctant to disassemble and rework the problem cause "it'll take me a month to get there". Maybe its the fundamentals, where TDC, fuel, spark, and a free turning flywheel stopped holding hands.   So take your break Ariz, there are no time limits here, no shows to run it to. As you clean up around the shop Scuderi will be there, you will glance at it, it will be on your mind :-\.............and thats where we want it, where the solutions are     Dave.


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## arnoldb (Mar 1, 2010)

Ariz, I agree with what others have said before. 
This is a very good build you did :bow:; 
Take some time out and do some other projects and then come back to this one to get it running!

Kind regards, Arnold


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## SAM in LA (Mar 1, 2010)

Ariz,

You made a fine looking engine.

Step back, take a deep breath, think about it and I believe that you will get your engine running sometime in the future.

This is supposed to be fun, no deadlines.

SAM


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## putputman (Mar 1, 2010)

Ariz, that looks like a very complicated engine so it is not too surprising that there would be problems getting the timing, fuel, etc. to all work together in the end. You have come too far to declare it a failure. If it was easy, there would be a lot more of those engines on this site. Yours is the first one I have seen.
Sleep on this one for awhile and you might be surprised when you wake up with the solution.


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## ariz (Mar 1, 2010)

thank you very much, all you: ksouers, ken, phil, chuck, bob, carl, dave, arnold, sam and arv

your words of encouragement are important for me, and I may agree that the build isn't a complete failure
I'll follow your suggestions and I'll take a break, working around the shop to fix and improve many little things that can do the future jobs to be more pleasant and easy
something here and there that I had never had the time to repair or improve

then I'll take a deep breath and start the build of a new engine

in the meanwhile, when the scuderi will look at me (or the opposite?), may be that a new idea, or just a new feeling, can bring me to the solution
thank you again

chuck, there is an air mixer between the fuel thank and the cylinder, but in these pics it is covered. but your comment was very useful anyway, I didn't think that the mixture was too rich


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## Tad Wicks (Mar 1, 2010)

I hope you don't give up now, you are almost there. It took two years to build my hit or miss and a year to make it run, It had fuel, it had compression and it had spark, obviously not in the right quantities or at the right time, it would not run, and almost went in the trash more than once, I guess it brought out the stubborn in me. I was finally successful and you will be also, hang in there, it will be worth it. Tad


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## Blogwitch (Mar 1, 2010)

Ariz,

I have had this happen to me in the past. I think it is a combination of all the work you have put into it, then at the very end it won't run. Then the frustration sets in, and you won't have a chance in hell of getting it running in that state of mind.

Put it on a back burner for a while, and when you have a spare hour or two, just go thru it all very logically, starting from the very beginning of the setup.

You should find you will have a lot more success. 
I still have on my shelf the last ever ic engine I built, and even though it runs, I just can't bring myself to finish off the cooling system.

You are not the first to be in this situation, and you definitely will not be the last.

Lovely build BTW.


Blogs


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## NickG (Mar 4, 2010)

Ariz,

listen to all these people speaking from experience. I've had 2 engines that were difficult to get to run now but i got there in the end with both of them - keep at it.

Nick


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## ariz (Mar 5, 2010)

thanks fellows

well, I'll try to get it to run, but not now...

there is a time for every thing. the time for the scuderi isn't arrived jet ;D


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