# I finally have a Lathe Project...



## ConductorX (Mar 12, 2013)

or a Project Lathe...

I just made a deal with a friend of mine to get an old lathe he has.  The lathe itself will be a project and I hope to drive everyone batty with questions.

Starting with.  What kind is it?  What size? What else can anyone tell me about it.  I will be picking it up next week and posting more photos as I go along.

Thanks in advance.






















I see many hours with a wire brush ahead of me.

"G"


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## ronkh (Mar 12, 2013)

http://search.mywebsearch.com/myweb...yxExWm02irKLG+5Gs6kzt4yPxegrfc0D&ord=8&ct=AR&

Hi.

You might be able to find your answer on the above link, though it does look like a capstan.
If you are not sure then Tony should be able to tell you if you were to email him with a pic.
He has helped me out before.
Good luck with your cleaning and painting!

Kind regards,

Ron.


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## ConductorX (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks for the very useful link.

Hopefully it has a serial number on the parts or some kind of Id to help me start.  I would get old and gray (wait too late for that) searching all of those pictures.

"G"


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## ozzie46 (Mar 12, 2013)

It looks like it has been in a fire. If it has babbit bearings they may have melted.

 Good luck on the restoration. Sorry, I don't know what kind of lathe it is.

  Ron


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## kvom (Mar 12, 2013)

Looks as if it has good capabilities if it runs and the ways are in good shape.

The saddle has a milling attachment which can be useful.  Also has a taper attachment.  The round chuck lying on the bench near the headstock appears to be a Jacobsen rubberflex, a collet system.  The collets come up on eBay from time to time.  Also has the steady rest and the tailstock, in addition to the turret.


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## gmiller (Mar 12, 2013)

G
I am envious, it looks like it will be a fun project. Good luck.
Greg


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## ConductorX (Mar 12, 2013)

ozzie46 said:


> It looks like it has been in a fire. If it has babbit bearings they may have melted.
> 
> Good luck on the restoration. Sorry, I don't know what kind of lathe it is.
> 
> Ron



It was in a building that burned but supposedly only had paint damage, it has been sitting in another warehouse for a very long time.

I have a machinist friend that happens to make his own babbit bearings.

I'll know more once I pick it up.

Thanks Ron


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## Wizard69 (Mar 12, 2013)

ConductorX said:


> It was in a building that burned but supposedly only had paint damage, it has been sitting in another warehouse for a very long time.
> 
> I have a machinist friend that happens to make his own babbit bearings.
> 
> ...



I'd be more worried about any ball / roller bearings it might have.    It wouldn't take much heat to damage such bearings.  

I does look like it should clean up nicely.   Yes a lot of work but it also looks like you are getting a very capable machine.


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## ian99 (Mar 14, 2013)

Rockwell Delta 11"


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## lennardhme (Mar 14, 2013)

Love the backdrop sign in pic. 3
I wondered what a watchmakers lathe looked like.


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## ConductorX (Mar 15, 2013)

lennardhme said:


> Love the backdrop sign in pic. 3
> I wondered what a watchmakers lathe looked like.


 
The guy with the lathe is a friend from my VW Club.  He has a reported warehouse chock full of goodies, but he only brings a very select crowd there.  I noticed two old gas pumps in the back ground also.  It has been reported there is all kinds of goodies in there like that government warehouse #13.

"G"


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## ConductorX (Mar 15, 2013)

ian99 said:


> Rockwell Delta 11"


 
Ian,

Thanks much.  Do you have one of these lathes?  I looked it up and it seems to be very well built.  Looks like I will be able to get parts and manuals for it as well.






"G"


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## ian99 (Mar 15, 2013)

Gary,
  No, I have never owned one, but I did see one a few years ago. The flat top and on/off switch are quite characteristic of the breed.
  From the look of the VWs on your site, you clearly like a challenge and I think you have one with this lathe. Never mind the fire damage and the potential of warped beds, anything with capstans indicate heavy industrial usage in my book.

  Good luck Gunga Din.

  Ian


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## Rivergypsy (Mar 15, 2013)

I did think Boxford with the flat top, but not 100%.

I may be joining this thread soon as I've just been given a Chipmaster in need of TLC...


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## ConductorX (Mar 15, 2013)

I am not an expert on restoring lathes, but I do enjoy a challenge.

"G"


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## McLarenross (Mar 21, 2013)

Yep defiantly a Rockwell 11". You seem to have found one will every single factory option and attachment available! Congrats on that as a lot of those things are hard to find and very expensive when/if found. I know cause I have  one with none of the accessories. Your lathe is a very good home shop lathe. It has a L00 spindle with 1.4" bore. Yours is an older model with the crank wheel for the variable Reeves drive system. The lathe looks like it sat in the weather for a long time and rusted up pretty good. Oil everything very good and start going through things one piece at a time to clean them up. The best resource for information I have found for these lathes is the Rockwell 11" Yahoo Group that exists for them.  If you have any questions please feel free to shoot me an e-mail at [email protected]. Of if ya decide you wanna get rid of any of those accessories..... ;D;D


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## Todd... (Mar 21, 2013)

it looks like the rockwell i learned on in school.  nicely built machine in my opinion.  the one i had used was worn out but still held tolerances if you knew how to work around them. since it was in a fire i would take the thing apart all the way down to peices, check everything out including the hardware and bearings.  replace what is needed from wear or fire damage and have a nice machine


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## ConductorX (Mar 21, 2013)

McLarenross and Todd,
Thanks for the good words.  I joined the Yahoo group already.

I will pick up the lathe tomorrow and then start taking photos and trying to identify all of the parts and pieces that are coming with it.

"G"


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## ZipSnipe (Mar 21, 2013)

Congrats!!!  I was at ACME Surplus in Sanford Florida today and they have the same one in there just not burnt or rusty. I just glanced at it as I was gathering materials for a project and didn't have time to drool over it.


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## ConductorX (Mar 23, 2013)

I picked up the lathe yesterday.  It is a Rockwell 11 x 36.  I was surprised to find that it isn't totally frozen.  The headstock and most parts won't move or turn.  The turret slide works.  All of the indicator dials are intact and legible.  I have to build a new cabinet for the base.  The old one is totally rotten.  It came with some interesting parts that I need people to help me identify.

Serial number: 117-8954





Turret Extended:  (6 heads)





Adjustment screws?





Taper attachment??





Tool Holders





Boring Bars??





????





Dogs





4 - Jaw Chuck





Tail Stock





Steady Rest





Rest ???





Tool holder:





Adjustable Tool Holder?





Faceplate





Some kind of chuck with insides missing:





I think I have overloaded the forum with photos.

One last thing.  I cleaned up part of the ways with a scotch brite and some WD-40





"G"


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## aarggh (Mar 23, 2013)

That looks a fair bit work in front of you there, what is the best way for you to remove the rust without pitting or further damaging the surface?

cheers, Ian


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## kf2qd (Mar 23, 2013)

Looks like smoke damage not fire and heat damage.


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## ConductorX (Mar 24, 2013)

I cleaned that spot on the ways with only a green scotch brite and some elbow grease.  I rather not use a rust converter like naval jelly or the like.  The ways and certain other parts should be shiny.  The rough cast areas I plan to wire brush with power tools and then repaint.  I mainly need advice,  Should I take it down to component parts?  That is how I restore cars, even to the point of drilling out spot welds to get a rust inside heater channels an such.

The heat damage was to the aluminum plates that have the settings stamped on them they were melted away.  Also in the cabinet is a variable speed drive system that had aluminum parts that melted away.  I think a variable speed DC drive will easily replace that part.

If you tell me what those parts are with the question marks that would help a bunch.

"G"


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## Swifty (Mar 24, 2013)

Pic 3: depth stops for turret
Pic 4: taper turning attachment
Pic 6: boring bars
Pic 7: adjustable turret style stop for saddle
Pic 12: travelling steady
Pic 14: milling attachment 

Paul.


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## chipenter (Mar 24, 2013)

At least yours is all there mine was missing feed screw and gibb strips , I have also restored cars M G s , strip it down as you would a car into boxes or trays and do one thing at a time , you will have to check the alignment anyway and lathes are heavy ,


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## tomo (Mar 24, 2013)

That's not a bad a bad looking lathe! Just a bit of tlc.


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## McLarenross (Mar 25, 2013)

Wow man. You've got your work cut out for ya. Should be a fun project. If the lathe got hot enough to melt the aluminum pulleys in the drive system I would be very afraid of the heat treatment of the ways and whether it had warped them or not. If the head stock is frozen up your probably gonna need bearings which arent cheap. I would also suggest a full tear down to its smallest components and thoroughly clean and inspect every single part for heat damage.


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## ConductorX (Mar 25, 2013)

Swifty said:


> Pic 3: depth stops for turret
> Pic 4: taper turning attachment
> Pic 6: boring bars
> Pic 7: adjustable turret style stop for saddle
> ...


 
Taper turning seems to be an important skill.  I will have to see and understand how that works.  I assume there is some adjustment there to cause the cutting tool to travel at a constant angle to the part you are turning.

A traveling steady would be attached to the carriage to support turning a shaft?

I think I can see how the milling attachment would work in pic #14.  I could put an end mill in the lathe chuck.  Then attach the part to that tool to do the milling.  Is that correct?

Thanks for the info, I plan to keep you posted as things progess.  Right now I am waiting on my shop to be delivered and installed.  It isn't even here yet.

"G"


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## Swifty (Mar 25, 2013)

Haven't used a taper turning attachment since trade school over 40 years ago. But as I recall, they can be adjusted for a limited range of degrees. Yes, the travelling steady is fixed to the carriage to support thin work right near the cutting tool, I can't recall ever having to use one, although every lathe seems to be supplied with one. Never used a milling attachment on a lathe, but if you do a search on this you will find plenty of advice. I have always had a milling machine, but there are plenty of members that do use the attachment.

Paul.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 25, 2013)

the some kind of chuck with center missing I believe is a Jacobs chuck. The inside is tapered and a rubber collet with steel inserts  goes inside. they come in various sizes and usually in sets. 
I have never used them but a place i worked had them. 

It has been a little while since I used my taper attachment. IIRC one end is calibrated in degrees the other in inches per foot taper. you disengage the cross slide screw lock in the taper attachment and the taper attachment moves the cross slide as you move the carriage in the z axis or longitudinal. 
they are nice for machining Morse tapers . the lines get you close. then you either set up a finished taper to copy and indicate in the last bit or use a taper gage of some sort and do the die and try method. And you can measure the taper per inch with layout lines and a mic.
Tin


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## kquiggle (Mar 25, 2013)

Looks like a fun project ahead of you - better get yourself a barrel of elbow grease.

I think the part you have labeled "Adjustable Tool Holder" is a milling attachment that bolts onto the cross slide. I look forward to seeing comments from other people on this forum who know more than I do.


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## Ryker Carruthers (Mar 25, 2013)

I have a 16" south bend that had the same thing happen to it. It is an older one, 1922, so all the babbit was melted out but we do that for the steam engine so no biggie. Also something you may want to try is electrolysis to remove rust. I talked to a good friend about cleaning the ways and he said you basicly cant hurt them unless you try to. He said fine bristled wire wheel or a wetstone will do great


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## ConductorX (Mar 25, 2013)

Ryker Carruthers said:


> I have a 16" south bend that had the same thing happen to it. It is an older one, 1922, so all the babbit was melted out but we do that for the steam engine so no biggie. Also something you may want to try is electrolysis to remove rust. I talked to a good friend about cleaning the ways and he said you basicly cant hurt them unless you try to. He said fine bristled wire wheel or a wetstone will do great



Good news about the ways.  I plan to remove all of the parts bolted to the ways and check them with a straight edge for warping. If they pass then I will continue to restore the lathe.

It doesn't have babbit bearings that I can find.  I found this drawing of the head stock.  It has two tapered roller bearings opposed to each other and a set of ball bearings on the outboard end.  My fear is these bearings are damaged and no more are in captivity.







I will keep everyone posted.

"G"


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## IrnHed (Mar 26, 2013)

I found that truck repair places know where to find old &/or obsolete parts.  They're really helpful if they know what you're up to.  Seem to love model engines & things to decorate their walls.  

Speaking of which, any luck getting the "Watch Repairs" sign?  Be a good inside joke on the wall

IrnHed


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## ConductorX (Mar 26, 2013)

I'll have to ask about that sign.  The warehouse where the lathe was stored is chock-a-block full of old signs, gas pumps, a Packard car, a 75' Harley and a farm sprayer.  The sprayer is on a wood wagon with steel wheels, a wood tank, pump and a hit and miss engine to operate the pump.  I did ask for permission to photograph it once restoration starts.

"G"


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## Todd... (Mar 26, 2013)

the unkown chuck is a jacobs rubber flex, unsure of size but you are missing the collets that go in the middle, wich are steel bands held together by rubber.  supposed to work pretty well from what i hear and the collets are readily available new or used.


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## Meldonmech (Mar 28, 2013)

Hi Ron, 
              I have restored a few machine tools, and would suggest that if possible break down into units, and completely restore each including painting. When you see a completed unit it will inspire you to go on to complete the next one. To completely clean the whole lathe this size, can make you feel you are getting nowhere. 
                                Good Luck with the project    David


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## kvom (Mar 28, 2013)

I have a rubberflex chuck and collets.  They are useful for sizes for which my 5c collets don't work, and each collet has a fairly wide  size range.  They are particularly useful for holding material that is threaded or knurled;  I cut a strip of thin metal from a soda can to wrap around the work and insert the covered part into the collet.

The taper attachment works as Tin says.  You need to disengage the cross slide screw (usually a bolt head for this somewhere on the cross slide itself) and lock the taper attachment itself to the ways (on my lathe that's a separate piece).  Then when the carriage is moved the angled slide forces the tool in or out.  Setting the slide angle can be a bit of a challenge.  With a DRO, use two DIs to measure the X and Y coords as you move the carriage in the direction you intend to cut (always measure this way to eliminate backlash in the screw).  The ratio of the two readings give you the tangent of the slide angle.  On some lathes you can use a sine bar or angle bar between the slide and the ways to set the angle, and in any case a protractor will get you pretty close.

For duplicating a taper such as a Morse, you can check the the taper to be duplicated in headstock, and then adjust until a DI attached to the carriage and touching the taper does change as you move the carriage.  It's finicky any way you go.


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## ConductorX (Mar 29, 2013)

OK so this weekend I want to remove the head stock, carriage and the turret.  I can see the bolts for the head stock and turret.  

The carriage appears to have some allen head screws that would seperate the main parts.









Also two bolts that attach the taper tool to the carriage.





Any thing else I need to find or look for?

Thanks much,
Gary


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## rhitee93 (Mar 29, 2013)

You have a great project there!  I redid a WWII era South Bend 10L a few years ago.  I tore it down to the last nut and bolt, and would highly recommend that approach.  Not only can you get everything as clean as the day it left the factory, but by the time you get it put back together, you will know the lathe very well, and maintaining it will be a breeze.

I used a hot Trisodium phosphate bath to strip most of my parts.  I had a plastic 55-gallon drum with no top.  I suspended a 5-gallon bucket heater in the drum to get it up to about 150F and put my parts in.  The TSP will take off every bit of grease as well as the old paint.  Yo will have to scrub a bit, but you can get the parts very clean, and ready for paint.

I reassembled my lathe in the position it is in today.  I just don't have any way to move the thing when it is in one piece.

Good luck, and please keep posting pics of your progress


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## kquiggle (Mar 29, 2013)

This may be too obvious a suggestion, but: Take lots of pictures!

Take pictures before you take something apart, so if you get stuck putting things back together you'll have something to refer to.

Take pictures before and after cleaning, and then after painting (when painting is appropriate).

There have been a few times when I have dived into restoring something and then regretted later that I didn't have "before and after" pictures.

And I know everyone on this forum will enjoy seeing the pics.



ConductorX said:


> or a Project Lathe...
> 
> I just made a deal with a friend of mine to get an old lathe he has.  The lathe itself will be a project and I hope to drive everyone batty with questions.
> 
> ...


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## gmiller (Mar 29, 2013)

"G"
Thanks for the pictures. I will be anxious to see the finished project. Keep us posted. 
Greg


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## ConductorX (Mar 31, 2013)

I jumped right in and started with the headstock.  The three jaw chuck came off so easy I was totally surprised.
I did manage to completely disassemble the entire lathe.










Actually all of the bolts came out very easy.  I soaked the entire late down with PB Blaster last week.  I photographed every bolt just about.  These bolts are too long to remove from the opening unless both bolts are completely free of the casting.





Once the four bolts were out the headstock came right off.





More to come... Happy Easter everyone.
"G"


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 31, 2013)

you are scarring me seeing the parts siting on the ways . protect those ways from getting chipped hard steel against hard steel can chip. 
get a piece of wood make a tray. Sorry pet peeve of mine. 
Tin


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## kquiggle (Mar 31, 2013)

Nice! Keep those pictures coming.


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## ConductorX (Mar 31, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> you are scarring me seeing the parts siting on the ways . protect those ways from getting chipped hard steel against hard steel can chip.
> get a piece of wood make a tray. Sorry pet peeve of mine.
> Tin



I told you I needed guidance.  Of course I did not drop or get rough with any parts near the ways.  A tray is a good idea.  Thanks,

"G"


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## ConductorX (Mar 31, 2013)

The Turret was held on with four allen head bolts.  The first two came out very easy and the second two required me to remove the upper carriage.  You can see those two bolts in the second photo.









The allen wrench is just too big.





I removed the two plates on either side of the carriage.




The carriage easily lifted right off.  I did not try to remove hexagonal block that holds the tools from the carriage.  That is for another day.





Now you can see the under side of the carriage.





and the top of the turret plate under the carriage.





Now I removed the last two allen bolts.




Old debris stored under the turret.





More to come when I tackle the carriage.
"G"


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 31, 2013)

> Of course I did not drop or get rough with any parts near the ways.



your ways look like the are in good shape just trying to help you keep them that way. when you get the lathe done or maybe before make a wood cradle for your chucks. that way there is something to catch the chuck when removing it. and  on a long bed lathe it is tempting to sit stuff on the ways behind the tail stock hence the wood tray idea. 

This was also a pet peeve of a former co worker. All of my dealings with him have not been positive  but he did teach respect for machines especially the ways. They are the heart and skeleton of a machine tool. 

My lathe spent the first 67 years of its life teaching engineering students at the University of Pennsylvania and has been helping in my hobby shop for 9. there are very few dings on the ways yes a few one of which was my fault. I slipped with a hack saw. Ouch that hurt. If you do get a ding take a oil stone and knock down the high edges off the crater leave the low area to hold extra oil. 
Tin


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## ConductorX (Apr 1, 2013)

Last but not least is the carriage and related parts.  

The gear box is driven by the head stock and has two levers used in combination to select various threads. (I am making a SWAG here.)
It only has two bolts, I removed the gears already to get the headstock off.





This end stop only had a big nut / bolt underneath and easily came off.









I started taking bolts out of the saddle.





Some allen head bolts just won't co-operate.  I used my vise grips and the allen wrench to get this one out.  Neither tool would do it alone.





This allen bolt would not come out.  Turning the wrench only ruined the bolt.  I will have to come up with a new plan for this one.  I am thinking of using my welding machine and welding a nut to the head then removing it with a wrench.  The heat should also convince it to break free.





After much frustration I managed to remove the saddle with the taper attachment still attached.  I also removed the apron with the gear box and lead screw still attached.





Finally after all of that I removed the supports from each end of the ways.  The ways are still too heavy for me to pick up alone.  Looks like this week I'll be buying an engine lift so I can move the ways indoors with the rest of the lathe parts.









That is all for now.  Hopefully my shop will be built next week and I will be ready to start my restoration.

"G"


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## Lockstocknbarrel (Apr 9, 2013)

This may help and inspire you .
One for sale on eBay lots of pictures.
Regards Dave.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROCKWELL-CA...h=item1e753a516e&ssPageName=RSS:B:SHOP:US:101


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