# TB4  Build



## Tin Falcon (Dec 19, 2010)

In the process of Eric trying to resurrect the TB3 project there has been interest by newbies to get involved this is a good thing. 
The other thing that was brought up was the possibility of a beginner engine with a small team say 5 people. 
so here are some thoughts :
Goal #1 Have fun 
Goal #2 Each team member have a complete set of parts to assemble and engine. 
Goal #3 get less experience builders involved. 
Goal #4 Keep it simple I suggest http://npmccabe.tripod.com/mccaberunner.htm
Goal #5 Keep cost down to this end limit team to continental US
Goal #6 Keep it open we can do TB4a TB4 b TB4c if needed. 
Goal #7 time limit 2 months. 
Eric and Pat not trying to take over here but guide. I can Coordinate a team if needed I have two runners built so can offer experience and guidance. 
And some of these Ideas were from pat I can not take all the credit. 

The McCabe Runner It is a simple one sheet pan set available for download. 
A couple of the parts can be made with hand tools and a bit of skill. 
There are only about ten parts. 
IIRC no tiny screws to tap or thread. 
Mostly aluminum parts. 
Here is a pic of my first Mcabe runner. I built a second from acylic. 





I used brass for the fly wheels and pivot plate but aluminum would work fine. I made a steel sleeve in an aluminum block. 


Parts breakdown :
1) base *Brassmachine*
2) cylinder block piston pair and wrist pin : *Steve Hucks* 
3) fly Wheels 2 per engine,Shaft *Groomengineering*
4) bearing carrier and rocker arm :*Crispare*
5) con rods, valve and rocker arm shaft. *Pat H *

I suggest 6 engines in case someone has to drop out with health issues and a sub needs to step in all involved still has an engine . If some just quits no engine for them but life sometime throws stuff out of our control. If there is an extra at the end the team can decide how it it is used museum display, roving show engine sold for charity whatever. 
Pat this could be the team build lite you are looking for not an IC but a great little runner. If tolerances are kept good it should run immediately upon completion. 
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 24, 2010)

Once again looks like I left Y'all speechless. 
Is any one interested in building this engine as a beginner team build. ?

Eric(Brass Machine) or pat J if you want to take the reins as a team captain let me know. ? 
Like I said have built two of these am willing to make it happen if there are enough ( 5) interested folk.
This is a forum lets discuss this please. 
I posted this 5 days ago I am surprised that we have had no reposes
if there is interest I will post the design changes I made on this build.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Dec 24, 2010)

I think this would be a good start for the folks that have no experience building an engine. Then we can move on and finish TB3.

I am willing to jump in and help.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 24, 2010)

Well, Maybe some people are a bit leary because most team builds are destin to fail. I know of 4 or 5 builds that were never completed and 25 year friendships were ended.

I would not be apposed to making a part if the quantity stays reasonable and the people participating wouldn't mind me "customizing" the part some. Nothing wild but if I were to do the flywheels I would need to add some spokes or something.

Goal #3 was the reason I did not post. Not that I'm some master engine builder but I do have some time in. I suspect the reason for doing something like this is for beginners to get there feet wet and still come out with a working engine. I didn't want to interfere with that.

Count Me In if "Senior Members" are welcome


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 24, 2010)

*Steve:* You could be anchor man on a build . 
Goal 3 is to get newbies involved. But it may be hard to find a newbie confident enough to build the block and piston combo.
Goal 6 is to keep it open to interested folk. 
in the original concept post for TBs a 3 month build time is stated as is an elected team captain. we can do this if folks want to . We have a proposed plan we just need a willing team. 
Customization is encouraged TB1 came out great because of it. 
Like I said copies 6 of each part. There are two fly wheels but very simple ones. 
IIRc it took about 1 month to build the second one . I have done engines in a week but I find it hard to find that groove these days. 


*Eric:* so you are stepping in as /nominating yourself for team captain ??
Like I said I am willing to be on the side lines as a coach adviser. 
Tin


----------



## Groomengineering (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm in Tin.

A "Runner" would be a fun engine to build, and a lot less intimidating than some.

Vettes EZ would be another fun one. ;D

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 25, 2010)

Eric and jeff what parts you want to make ?? 
All : do we want to stick with full scale or make a bit smaller half maybe 3/4 size???
Tin


----------



## chrispare (Dec 25, 2010)

I would be interested in joining this when it happens

chris


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 25, 2010)

I see I am going to make the cylinder block. I have downloaded the drawings. 

Can I make the blocks in aluminum and then sleeve the cylinder with some brass or bronze? I did not see a material called out for the piston so I think an aluminum piston in a brass sleeve would be good. K&S makes hard brass tubing and the ID is .373. The .370 piston would be a good fit still. Of course I would have the sleeves pressed and ready to go. Just need the piston to be +0.00 / -.002


I think full scale would cause less confusion but I am game for anything down to 1/4 scale.

How would you guy's feel about some engraving on the cylinder block? Something like..

HMEM 
TB4
2011


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 25, 2010)

> I would be interested in joining this when it happens


trying to make it happen download the print and pick what parts you want to do.
 I have an assignment breakdown at the top of the thread.
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 25, 2010)

Pat: looks like we have 4 builders so far so almost have a team for the runner are you in on this one. If you want, finish up those plans and lets get another team going if you want. 
Tin


----------



## chrispare (Dec 25, 2010)

Ok Ill do the bearing carrier and rocker arm.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 25, 2010)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> Ok Ill do the bearing carrier and rocker arm.



Atta boy Chris! We just need 3 more. As soon as the roster is full I'll go get a stick of aluminum and get these things done!


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 25, 2010)

Eric and groomsengineering need to pick there parts and then one more
Tin


----------



## GailInNM (Dec 25, 2010)

Tin,
I don't really want in on this build as it should be for beginners/novices to do according to your plan.

I do however have a box of 2 inch diameter blanks of 12L14 that are saw cut at 0.275 or so and will finish up at 0.265. This is just under the 0.28 thickness of the flywheel drawing, but sure won't hurt anything far as operation of the engine. I will be glad to donate a dozen + a couple of spares if someone needs them to do the flywheels.

Gail in NM


----------



## Groomengineering (Dec 25, 2010)

Hey Tin, I can do the flywheels and shaft. Is steel ok for the flywheels?

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Brass_Machine (Dec 26, 2010)

Hiya Tin,

Good sidelined for the holidays. If you don't mind running it, they would be great. I will finish with TB3 after 4 (and maybe 5) gets off the ground. This way some of us can get some experience before jumping on TB3. If you are too busy, I will take the lead.


Part - whatever is left


Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm going to take a leap and ass/u/me this thing is a go. I have the days between christmas and new year off and I don't want to waste them. I am going to move forward with my parts and hope this gets off the ground. Tomorrow I will go get my material and start cutting and slashing.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 26, 2010)

*Gail :*thanks for the option on the material . 
*Jeff: *Steel will be good to excellent I would be sending Gail a PM if in your shoes. 12L14 is Ideal for this will probably need paint but that is fine. 
*Eric:* I can will run this one but prefer not to build . can pinch hit if NEEDED.
Bases and a few small parts left. 
*All: *We need one more team member to fill this out please. 
*I hand: *You in on this one?
Tin Falcon


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 26, 2010)

FYI on my second one I used bicycle spokes for the valve rod and added a bit of teflon for the valve button. the valve timing rod again was bicycle spoke cut and threaded and a brass piece tapped to fit a nice way of doing it and allows for a little length 
the adjustment. pivot for the rocker arm 3/8 brass and a groove for a e clip made If I can find them I can provide e- clips for the build. I think hex would be good for the pivot. 
here is my second runner version I call Claire (French for Clear) 




Oh you can also see I used cherry for the base instead of aluminum . and IIRC just slightly larger than the original print . 

Tin


----------



## Brass_Machine (Dec 26, 2010)

Tin, you lead. I will build 

What ever part is left I will do. Save me for last...


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 26, 2010)

Ok folks need one more participant to step in .
Tin


----------



## Path (Dec 26, 2010)

Tin,

Are you sure .... this is my first TB. 


Pat H.


----------



## 1hand (Dec 26, 2010)

I can do the base?

Matt


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 26, 2010)

*Pat H: *The parts left are 4 simple ones. you would get the group.
look at the print. Give an answer.
Do you have a lathe? 
I think we can get you through it.
Tin 
*1Hand * fine with me but Eric said he wanted to build but did not put dibs on parts. 
Tin


----------



## Path (Dec 26, 2010)

Tin,

As I see it that leaves the following parts:

Rocker Arm Shaft ... will do.
Valve Push Rod ... will do with questions. 
Valve ... will do with more questions.
Connecting Rod ... will do with a question.

Yes, I have a lathe and a mill. I like making parts from SS303, Brass, Bronze and of course Aluminum. 


Pat H.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 26, 2010)

Pat H you are in for the parts, The con rods on the prints are a bit crude. I made the piston con rod from a flat strip of metal drilled holes and added some shape. the valve con rod was a bicycle spoke and a threaded block with a hole in it . 
These parts allow for some creativity . 
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 26, 2010)

I can redraw any part with Alibre for clarity. and redraw my mod for anyone on the team. 
In tb1 Giles put a nice og edge on the bases this is a real nice touch if the base builder wants to do it. 
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 26, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> I can redraw any part with Alibre for clarity. and redraw my mod for anyone on the team.
> In tb1 Giles put a nice og edge on the bases this is a real nice touch if the base builder wants to do it.
> Tin



I think if the base builder wants to change material, I could live with that. Wood or clear lexan would be cool as would be Corian.


----------



## 1hand (Dec 26, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> *Pat H: *The parts left are 4 simple ones. you would get the group.
> look at the print. Give an answer.
> Do you have a lathe?
> I think we can get you through it.
> ...



That's fine. I got a seat on TB5. I didn't do an actual count on builders here, I just chimed in if needed.

Matt


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 26, 2010)

*1Hand: *No problem you are on standby as a substitute.
* Brass machine:* You Have the bases.
*All:* Team is full 
Gentlemen gather your material. start your machines and go!!!
opps mist pasted
corrected now
Tin


----------



## Brass_Machine (Dec 26, 2010)

If 1hand wants in, I will step down. ;D no problems there 

Eric


----------



## 1hand (Dec 26, 2010)

Eric,

I'm already on the TB5, you go ahead build. I was just posting in case you where short a builder.
I'll be plenty busy with the other build.


Thanks and Good Luck
Matt


----------



## Groomengineering (Dec 27, 2010)

Hi all, just been looking the plans over and there seems to be some definite clearance issues. .005" on the piston, .007" on the crank, .010" on the valve.... Seems a little excessive to me. Not sure if these were intended or just typos (like the 1" long crankshaft ??? ). Just a heads-up ;D

GailInNM is donating the blanks for the flywheels, so a big Thank You Very Much and a karma to Gail! th_wav

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 27, 2010)

There are some minor errors on the prints Those clearances could be tightened up a bit. IIRC this was designed as a quick and easy build for a college class. 
I am also wondering if the rocker arm (plate should be made by the same guy as the valve arm and valve. basically trade the rocker arm (plate) and the piston con rod.
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 27, 2010)

Groomengineering  said:
			
		

> Hi all, just been looking the plans over and there seems to be some definite clearance issues. .005" on the piston, .007" on the crank, .010" on the valve.... Seems a little excessive to me.



I was going to tighten up the piston to -.0015 / -.002


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 27, 2010)

Well I got out and got over to Speedy Metal today. Cut off 6 pieces of stock and started making cylinder blocks.









Started out milling the ends and getting the blocks to size. They are .004 under in width already. I plan on sanding down the sides to get them looking better so they will be about 10 under when i'm finished.







I decided to spot and drill the cross hole first and then the hole in the center of the cylinder can be drilled to meet it. I was nervous that if I waited, the drill would wander going thru after the cylinder port was there.







After that I spot and drilled the mounting holes on the bottom and then forgot to take pictures. Trust me they are drilled.







Then I spot drilled, drilled the cylinder, and then drilled the port thru to the cross hole.












Then while the part is still centered on the chuck, I parted off the piece of brass tubing, cleaned up the ends, and scuffed up the OD of the tubing. Then I put a coat of loc-tite on the tubing and used the nose of the chuck to send it home.

















Tomorrow when the loc-tite does it's thing, I will run a tap into the holes in the bottom and we can call them done. Hoping to get some time tomorrow to do some pistons.


----------



## chrispare (Dec 27, 2010)

holey crap steve your fast
I got the rocker arms just about done just need to shine them up a bit, the bearing block I have to get some material for so it will be next week for that.

chris


----------



## Path (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm about to start making the *Rocker Arm Shafts*. 

*Chris* sent me a PM about the Rocker Arms ... noting the following changes:

Thickness was .060" now is .125" ... good to know, thanks.  
Additionally the holes are .150" ... with the option of making them larger.
For now that's okay ... but what size drill (reamer) did you use for the Rocker Arm Shaft. 
I plan on making the through arm shaft about .005" .002" or so smaller (.148"). *<<< edit*

I can either make the shaft out of 360 Brass 7/16" round or 3/8" Hex any preference?

I will be using an e-clip so the groove for that will start at .125" + .005" .003" or so. *<<< edit*

The thread portion will be reduced from .400" to .350" so that it will not protrude through the base which is .375".



For the *Valve* I see that the hole size is .185" I will enlarge the Valve diameter from .175" to 180".



Don't know about the connecting rod or the valve push rod ... later on those. ???


*Tin* ... you mentioned about mod drawing being available ... can a set be sent?

If there any issues or comments please let me know. 


Thanks,

Pat H. (path)


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 27, 2010)

I have been watching videos of the runner on youtube. The air line attaches to the cylinder block on the outboard side. Do I need to add some threads or something so an air line can be attached?


----------



## chrispare (Dec 27, 2010)

the holes were drilled with a #25 drill which is .149 in after drilled there .150


----------



## Path (Dec 27, 2010)

Chris,

Thanks  

Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 27, 2010)

Hey guys, on these cylinders, do we want a brushed finish or a polished mirror finish?

I am also considering engraving "HMEM   TB4  2011" on the top of the cylinder block about .150 high letters. What do you guys think?


----------



## Path (Dec 28, 2010)

I like the *Brush* look ... 

Engraving ... absolutely, you may start a trend! :big:


Pat H.


----------



## chrispare (Dec 28, 2010)

engraving would be good and brushed or plished it dosnt matter itll look good either way


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 28, 2010)

Engraved with a fine brush finish it is!


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 28, 2010)

The cylinder blocks are complete. The blocks still have some dings and dents in them but they look pretty good. If you want them perfect you can mill a few thou off and repolish when you get them. I will keep the worst one for myself and send the best one for the engine for charity.







I started to make pistons but realized I need a saw to cut the slot in the bottom. KBC is closed until after the holidays so i'm dead in the water until the 3rd.






How is everybody else coming along?


----------



## 1hand (Dec 28, 2010)

Nice! Thm:


Great Idea :big:

Matt


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 28, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Great Idea :big:



What's a great Idea?


----------



## Brass_Machine (Dec 28, 2010)

Those look very nice Steve! Excellent work.

Eric


----------



## 1hand (Dec 28, 2010)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> What's a great Idea?



Useing the drill chuck as a press.

"sorry I must of earsed the whole quote when trying to just get the pic to come up"

Matt


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 28, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Useing the drill chuck as a press.
> 
> "sorry I must of earsed the whole quote when trying to just get the pic to come up"
> 
> Matt



I only do that if it a very light press.


----------



## chrispare (Dec 28, 2010)

I just need to clead up the rocker arms and their done,also have to wait until the local supply guy is open on the 3rd to get some material for the bearing block.
chris


----------



## Path (Dec 28, 2010)

Steve,

Those are a really nice set of Blocks. 

I making some drawings to see that the Valve, Rocker Arm and Block, etc line up.
Of course I'm having a little trouble, but should be able to work it out soon. ???
Then I will be able to make the Rocker Arm Shafts.

The Valve Push Rod and Connecting Rod are a big question for me on how to make them. ???

I also noted your request to change the hole size for the Connecting Rod from .031" to a #66 drill (.033").

Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 29, 2010)

Path  said:
			
		

> The Valve Push Rod and Connecting Rod are a big question for me on how to make them. ???



If it were me, I think i would make a jig from a piece of plate or hard wood and 2 pegs of the correct dimention to bend the rod around. Also the jig could help in getting the hole in the correct spot in the connecting rod. Nothing fancy, it only has to last for 6 pieces.

The drawings do not help much so perhaps Tin can get you the CtoC dimention for the connecting rod and valve rod dimentions from his engine so a proper fixture can be made. This way you will have the best chance of getting 6 identical parts of each.


----------



## Groomengineering (Dec 29, 2010)

Hi all!

Steve, great work on the block! And quick too... 

Pat H, I'm planning on making some cheese-head stripper bolts for the crank throws (see attached). They should work with the wire loop rods as per plan, or rod ends ala Tin's Claire. A little classier than SHCS's at any rate. ;D Let me know if this causes a problem.

Brush/sanded finish for flywheels? 

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 29, 2010)

Good to see things moving forward and good communications. Pat H the rods pictured are straight forward but crude. my first runner I made the valve push rod from a piece of coat hangar. and the valve from brass. turned then bent. 
Like I said the second one Clair I used bicycle spokes for the valve and valve push rod . This makes for a nice clean look. 
also the bearing carrier I used aluminum square tube for the part with and aluminum plug for build one build two has a solid plexi bearing block. I did use bronze hat bushing on both . I do not have a drawing other than the original but can do an or a pair of as built. I have been out of town a bit for work but have some time to breath now . 
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 29, 2010)

Groomengineering  said:
			
		

> Brush/sanded finish for flywheels?



Sounds good to me Jeff. I used 320 grit if you want to try to match the finish on the cylinder blocks.


----------



## Path (Dec 30, 2010)

*Steve,*

Yes, I also think a fixture/jig would work ... once the correct dimensions are found.
I'm still working on that aspect. The Connecting Rod is probably okay, it's the Valve Push Rod that needs work.
I do like the way Tin did his Clair using thread ends.

*Jeff ...*

I really like the cheese-head stripper bolts ... that will add some real class to the engine.
My only concern is the .130" dimension. That would require that outside edge of the fly wheels to be very
precise in their location with respect to the center lines of the piston and the Valve Push Rod to the Rocker Arm hole. 
Certainly doable but more difficult. Of course the Valve Push Rod could be bent a bit to allow for any misalignment.
So if the .130" is too tight what would a good number be? 
I'm looking into this also ... but I see that the drawing is incorrect. The Bearing Carrier and the note on the length of the 
dowel pin (1") versus the 1.2" for the Bearing Carrier are in conflict. I plan on reverse engineering to see what is the desirable dimension.

My guess would be that .130" be increased to say ... .180 - .200". I think I could provide a better guess after I do the drawings.

I also like the Brush look.


*Tin...*

Really like the looks of your Clair ... nice job. 

As you probably know the Rocker Arms are done ... however, the thickness was increased to .125" from .060".
Not a problem at all. I decided to see what height adjustment might be needed. That's where my problems began ...

The Valve hole center line and the Rocker Arm hole do not line up when the valve is in the mid position. It's off to
the side about .067". So in short I'm trying to work that issue and the above mentioned one.

Hope to have some answers in the next couple of days. I can post drawings if you wish.
Can you provide additional details on your Clair (pictures and maybe a few dimensions on the above mentioned issues)? That would be very helpful.



Lastly ... I'm wondering if I'm overdoing this ... maybe it's easier than I'm making it. But on other hand I can't provide usable parts if 
I don't know what I'm making.


Later,

Pat H.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 30, 2010)

Pat I will pullout my two runners and the print and take a look .

Ok I pulled out my runner and Clair these are my interpretations of this design. I have a habit of not totally following prints or plans. 
The runner design has quite a bit of play in the valve linkage. And I feel there is quite a bit of room for interpretation and creativity. 

here are more pics

the valve rod is a piece of bicycle spoke bent with a dog leg think throttle linkage on a lawn mower engine. then a piece of Teflon pressed on the valve is a little rounded on the sides almost like a ball with parts cut off. 
from to view the valve is pretty centered in the hole from the end the valve rod sags a good 1//6 of an inch maybe more. 
Claire runs like a champ though I can run it on breath power. 




















Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 30, 2010)

and a couple shots of my piston con rods flat metal with holes and tapered with a file. 












Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 30, 2010)

Perfect alignment is not needed for this engine but we do need to be careful with parts rubbing and interfering with each other. 
And a note jumping ahead you will need a little locktite for assembly or one or another screw will back out and it will fall apart. 
Also we will need to feed this thing I made barb connectors from brass hex. I can provide details. I generally use aquarium hose to run air. This engine will run in either direction . it is just a matter of how the timing is set.
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 30, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Also we will need to feed this thing I made barb connectors from brass hex. I can provide details. I generally use aquarium hose to run air. This engine will run in either direction . it is just a matter of how the timing is set.



I posted a while back about possible threads in the outboard side of the block. Let me know and i will modify


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 30, 2010)

I used 5/16 brass hex with a 1/4- 20 thread for both of mine. and 1/4 barb 3/16 would probably work as well.
the one I measured that is on the runner is a .220 barb. 
here is a sketch of the fittings suggested for TB1 these were 4-40 thread. 

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1726.0
Tin


----------



## mklotz (Dec 30, 2010)

You don't need barbs at all if you use the silicone aquarium tubing. It's "sticky" enough to grip a 3/16" smooth brass fitting at the low pressures needed for these small engines. In addition, a 3/16" rod can be directly threaded 10-32 - no need to turn it down.

This is the arrangement I use for all my small engines and it works well.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 31, 2010)

Is everyone clear now ?? do you need any more help or info?? 
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm good!!


----------



## Path (Dec 31, 2010)

I have finished (well almost) the drawings ... I have several requests:

The *axle should be 2.000"* long ....

*Jeff *... one of the screws the *.130" should be .380"* the other screw should be *.135"*.

With these changes the rods will line up very good.

I will go over the reasons why a little later as we are about to leave for a while. 

And have a few more issues (minor) ...


Thanks,

Pat H


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 1, 2011)

How do folks want to handle shipping parts . 
Option 1 round robing send 1 set of parts to each of the the other folks send out 4-5 small packages receive same. 
or sent all parts to one person and that person makes all kits and ships them to team members. 
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 1, 2011)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> How do folks want to handle shipping parts .



I think it would be cheapest to just ship the parts directly to each member. Why ship them twice? I would have no problem giving my address to the other 4 members.


----------



## chrispare (Jan 1, 2011)

I agree steve im cool with that.

chris


----------



## Path (Jan 2, 2011)

Tin,

I also agree ...ship to each member.

Also ... thanks a bunch for the photos they where a great help. 

Plan to post the drawing in the next couple of hours ... I have to figure out how to do that. ???
Alone with the reasons for the drawing change request.



Pat H.


----------



## Path (Jan 2, 2011)

Finally able to get the drawings posted. :big:

The first drawing is just what the assembly will look like in the Trimetric view.

For the Connecting Rod I'm using 1/16" brass material with a .201" hole for the Fly Wheel and a .033" hole for the piston.
The Valve Push Rod is a two piece assembly ... the rod portion is a .094" rod that will be screwed into the a block that 
attaches to the Fly Wheel. (Note that the drawing shows the Valve Push Rod parallel to the Base ... actually it will be at an angle.)
This will be the adjustment to position the valve at mid-stroke, when the piston is at TDC. The top of the Rocker Arm will
be near the center line of the Fly Wheels. The Valve rod will have to be be bent lightly. 







The next drawing is the top view and shows the dimensions that I have asked to be changed.

So that other parts do not need any changes (Base, Bearing Carrier and Block) the Axle needs to be 2.000",
this gives a nice symmetrical look for the Fly Wheels and Bearing Carrier. The Valve Push Rod will only stick out a little.









Concerns:

With the Piston at TDC there is a gap of about .027" to the end of cylinder hole (1.252") ... is that okay ... too much or too little? This can
be changed by moving the .033" hole ... easy to do.

The holes for the two rods on the Rocker Arm might be too big ... not sure will have to wait and see.


One possible solution to these variables would be to send me one set of parts, then I would make my parts based on what I got.
Once I made them and get the unit to function I would then send my made parts out to each of you.

What do you think?

Later,


Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 3, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> For the Connecting Rod I'm using 1/16" brass material with a .201" hole for the Fly Wheel and a .033" hole for the piston.





If we are going to use brass instead of wire for the rod, could we increase the hole size to avoid breaking bits? I have .0625 drill rod. I have to drill .375 deep so it could save me a few drill bits.

Let me know


----------



## Path (Jan 3, 2011)

*Steve,*

Sure .. that's a great idea. The width of the Connecting Rod at the piston will .140" so that
leaves .038" on each side ... should be no problem. 

So I will change the hole size from .033" (#66 drill) to .0635" (#52 drill) for the Piston Wrist Pin.

Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 3, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> *Steve,*
> 
> Sure .. that's a great idea. The width of the Connecting Rod at the piston will .140" so that
> leaves .038" on each side ... should be no problem.
> ...


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 5, 2011)

Well that's it for me folks!!

My parts are done. I'm going to leave the cylinder block alone as far as the air fitting goes. That one is up to the individual. The pistons are finished and the wrist pins are started in the hole they get pressed in. I figured if I press them in the hole, they wont get lost in the mail. I'm going to send them out as soon as I get a mailing list.

Cheers!

Steve Huck


----------



## chrispare (Jan 5, 2011)

I have almost got the bearing block finnished as well just need to drill some holes
and tap one.

How is everyone else doing with thier stuff???


----------



## Path (Jan 6, 2011)

This is great ...  

Should I PM my address so that you can start sending parts?

Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 6, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> This is great ...
> 
> Should I PM my address so that you can start sending parts?
> 
> Pat H.



I PM'ed Tin. I assume he will collect all our addresses and then send them to everybody once he has them all.

Tin?


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 6, 2011)

you can PM addresses to me i will put a list together then forward them to the team
Tin


----------



## Path (Jan 7, 2011)

Tin,


PMed my address last night.


Pat H.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 8, 2011)

I received addresses from all but brass_machine. I have sent a PM to all on the team. I used BMs address from the TB1 list. 
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 8, 2011)

If folks want I can assemble engine six and display along side my other engines at shows with due credit given. I generally do about 4 - 5 shows a year Cabin Fever NEMES and 2-3 at Rough and Tumble. Yall are doing the work so you decide what happens with the extra engine. 
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 8, 2011)

I say Tin does the assembly and shows it for 1 season. At the end of this year we auction it off here at HMEM and donate the money to the charity of tin's choice. He is the captain.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Jan 8, 2011)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> I received addresses from all but brass_machine. I have sent a PM to all on the team. I used BMs address from the TB1 list.
> Tin



That is the correct address 

Thanks Tin!


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 8, 2011)

I sent out the corrected name.
Tin


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 8, 2011)

I did'nt even notice the fake name.


----------



## chrispare (Jan 10, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I say Tin does the assembly and shows it for 1 season. At the end of this year we auction it off here at HMEM and donate the money to the charity of tin's choice. He is the captain.



that is a good idea,I agree


----------



## Path (Jan 10, 2011)

Sounds good to me ...  


Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 10, 2011)

Gentlemen! Your parts are on the way!!


----------



## Path (Jan 13, 2011)

*Steve,


Got your parts ... came in the mail today! 

Looking good. Thm: Thm:
*

Pat H


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 15, 2011)

Tin also wrote me that his parts arrived. What did you think of the engraving?


----------



## Brass_Machine (Jan 15, 2011)

Haven't gotten the parts yet  Will let you know as soon as I do.

Eric


----------



## chrispare (Jan 15, 2011)

ok i sent my pieces off the threaded hole is 14/20
hope they are done to a good enough quality


----------



## Brass_Machine (Jan 15, 2011)

I am waiting on the aluminum to arrive for the bases. Should be here in a few days and I can knock these out.

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine (Jan 15, 2011)

Got my cylinder today Steve. That looks the bees knees! :bow: VERY happy with it.

On a side note, thinking of playing with the edge on the base. Maybe rounding it over like the 1st TB engine. I have a bunch of router bits. May play with them tomorrow or Monday on some scrap and see how it turns out. Anyone have an opinion on this?

Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 16, 2011)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Got my cylinder today Steve. That looks the bees knees! :bow: VERY happy with it.
> 
> On a side note, thinking of playing with the edge on the base. Maybe rounding it over like the 1st TB engine. I have a bunch of router bits. May play with them tomorrow or Monday on some scrap and see how it turns out. Anyone have an opinion on this?
> 
> Eric



I like the idea. I have never built anything to original plans. Put your personal touch on it!!


----------



## Brass_Machine (Jan 20, 2011)

Aluminum has arrived. I hope to get some time this weekend.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Jan 24, 2011)

On the bases... Do we have a preference on the counter bore? I am doing mine for socket cap screws instead of flat head screws. Anyone else want them that way?

Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 24, 2011)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> On the bases... Do we have a preference on the counter bore? I am doing mine for socket cap screws instead of flat head screws. Anyone else want them that way?
> 
> Eric




I do, I do!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jan 24, 2011)

Recieved my rocker arm and bearing carrier today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Brass_Machine (Jan 24, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Recieved my rocker arm and bearing carrier today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Got mine too! Very nice!

Eric


----------



## Path (Jan 25, 2011)

*Me too!!

Super nice. 


Eric ...

The socket cap screws works for me! 

Pat H.*


----------



## Groomengineering (Jan 25, 2011)

I have also received the parts from Chris and Steve. Thanks guys, they look great! Thm:

The flywheels are done, I just need to make up the stripper bolts. Hope to get them done and sent out by the end of the week.







Eric, socket heads are fine with me. 

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## chrispare (Jan 25, 2011)

i dont know if i mentiond that the hole is tapped for 1/4 20
chris


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, I got the 4 of the 6 bases cut to size last night. While working on the fourth base, the Y axis handle on my mill suddenly got tight, then froze. Froze as in it felt like the gib was tightened to the max. Haven't had a chance to take it apart yet to see what it is...

Needless to say, I was hoping to get them out this weekend... I don't think that will be happening. Let's hope it is something minor

Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Feb 1, 2011)

That sucks! I hope it's something easy to fix.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 5, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> That sucks! I hope it's something easy to fix.



Well, due to a kind gentleman on another board, I should have the replacement parts to fix my mill next week. So I will be back on track soon.

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 6, 2011)

Thinking about doing a satin type finish on the bases. I really don't like to polish... Anyone want a satin finish?


----------



## Path (Feb 6, 2011)

Eric,

Actually I perfer a satine or even a brush finish ... go for it. 

It will look great. :bow:


Pat H


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Feb 6, 2011)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Thinking about doing a satin type finish on the bases. I really don't like to polish... Anyone want a satin finish?



I do I do!!

Use 320 grit and they will match the finish on the cylinders.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Feb 6, 2011)

> Use 320 grit and they will match the finish on the cylinders.


Areed
Tin


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 6, 2011)

Well... with the broken mill (Y axis has been cobbled back together while I await parts), I got some work done on the bases. Almost done. Took forever with Y axis out of kilter (still works... just painful). Most of the finishing is done. They have already been hit with 220 grit paper. They look pretty good.

I have to make an order at Mcmaster for some low profile 10-24 socket cap bolts to fit and finish the sanding.

Should be shipping shortly.

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 14, 2011)

Got the bolts today. Will package and ship the bases out tomorrow!

Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Feb 14, 2011)

Thank you!! I look forward to getting mine!!



How we doing on the con rods and flywheels?


----------



## Groomengineering (Feb 14, 2011)

Flywheels are done. Going in the mail tomorrow. ;D

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Path (Feb 15, 2011)

I need the Base, Fly Wheel and Shaft, as soon as I get them I will build the Connecting Rods, Valve and Rocker Arm Shaft
for the perfect fit.  

If I get them by this weekend, I will start the build Monday otherwise the same day I get them ... the base is the important part.



Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Feb 15, 2011)

Path  said:
			
		

> I need the Base, Fly Wheel and Shaft, as soon as I get them I will build the Connecting Rods, Valve and Rocker Arm Shaft
> for the perfect fit.
> 
> If I get them by this weekend, I will start the build Monday otherwise the same day I get them ... the base is the important part.
> ...




Very Good!!

Thanks for the update.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 15, 2011)

I didn't get a chance to finish packing them last night. Will do it tonight and take to the 24hr self serve kiosk.

Should have them fairly soon I would think

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 16, 2011)

Bases are on their way!

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 17, 2011)

Got my flywheels today!

Look very nice. 

Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Feb 17, 2011)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Got my flywheels today!
> 
> Look very nice.
> 
> Eric



Received mine also!!


----------



## kanvelchoudhary (Feb 17, 2011)

i will be doing this.. all alone.. can i spare a hour or two for something like this.


----------



## Groomengineering (Feb 19, 2011)

Received my base today! It's starting to look like something! ;D

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 22, 2011)

I just realized there is a mistake on the bases! I counter bored the wrong side... so the base is kind of transposed. 

Doh! Sorry... I think it will still work. If not, I can redo them...

Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Feb 23, 2011)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> I just realized there is a mistake on the bases! I counter bored the wrong side... so the base is kind of transposed.
> 
> Doh! Sorry... I think it will still work. If not, I can redo them...
> 
> Eric



Cant we just flip the little triangle cam thingy upside down and have a "left handed" engine?


----------



## Brass_Machine (Feb 23, 2011)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Cant we just flip the little triangle cam thingy upside down and have a "left handed" engine?



I think we can. I don't see why not :big:


----------



## Tin Falcon (Feb 23, 2011)

my original runner is left handed. No problem Eric. No mistakes just design changes . we will just have to tap the opposite side for the air fitting. 
Tin


----------



## Path (Mar 5, 2011)

Well it's done  :big: :big: ... if I hadn't come down with some kind of virus it would have been finished a week ago. 

The photo below shows what parts I made ...notice that there are a few new ones. 

A few notes on the parts:
I have attached an e-clip to keep the Rocker Arm on the Rocker Arm Shaft.
I used .081" Brass Rod for the Valve Assembly and Valve Push Rod. The Push Rod has 2-56 threads to provide a means to adjust the valve location. Also a 2-56 nut to lock down the adjustment.
The Valve itself is Bronze that was soft soldered to the Brass Rod.

The small tab that connects the Valve Assembly to the Rocker Arm serves two purposes. Keeps the assembly parallel to the base which prevents the valve from jamming inside the Block plus it reduces the slop so it runs smoother. During running it never came apart so I didn't provide any means to keep it in place.

During my testing and adjustments the Flywheels kept moving out of position so I made some Bronze Bushings to keep them in place. Really makes a big difference. They are about .1 thick.








Finally assembly notes:
Notice the Rocker Arm position ... the longer side (.912" hole distance) is perpendicular to the Block.

The Valve Assembly and the Valve Push Rod were tested on my unit so that only minor adjustments would be required.

The Valve Push Rod will come out of the Rocker Arm at High RPM (say above 15 psi) with a sudden air removal. If done slowly it stays in place. You may want to provide a means to prevent that (bending or something like that). I will probably drill a small hole in the rod and put a small pin in it.

One more thing ... when I first tried to run ... ran terrible until I oiled it with 30 weight oil. Now so nice!  
Also I usually have to give a little push to start ... depends on the position of the Flywheels.








All that is left ... mail the parts. I need to find a way to package the parts so that they don't get bent. Maybe a small box will do.
Hope to do this Monday.


If you have any question let me know! Have fun!  


Pat H.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Mar 5, 2011)

Parts look great!

Can't wait to get them.


----------



## Groomengineering (Mar 5, 2011)

Nice looking bits Pat!  Thm:

I was worried about the side to side movement of the crank also. In a moment of reckless modification the other night I cut down a piece of 3/16" ID thinwall brass tubing to just fit between the flywheels. I bored out the hole in the upright to take the tubing, and I'll locktite it in place when everything is aligned. Funny, I didn't even think about spacer bushings. oh:

As to the valve push rod, what about a Z bend on the end? Might be easier than drilling for a pin.

Fine tuning is half the fun (and usually most of the work... :big: )

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## Path (Mar 7, 2011)

*Parts are on their way ... *:big: :big:

All 5 boxes!

Thanks for the compliments.

Jeff .. yes a Z bend would work just fine 

Have fun guys ... and let us know how things work out. 


Pat H.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Mar 7, 2011)

Oooh Can't wait. Looking forward to this.

Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks again Pat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Mar 10, 2011)

This sucks!! 

Just got a box of pieces and parts in the mail. I am sick as a dog and can't go out in the garage and play with my engine!!


----------



## Brass_Machine (Mar 10, 2011)

Got a box of parts today! Will do some assembly tomorrow.

Many thanks to all!

Eric


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 12, 2011)

Got my box of parts as well
thanks 
Tin


----------



## bearcar1 (Mar 12, 2011)

Heya Steve, I hope that you aren't down with anything real serious and begin feeling better in the next 12 hours. 

BC1
Jim


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Mar 12, 2011)

bearcar1  said:
			
		

> Heya Steve, I hope that you aren't down with anything real serious and begin feeling better in the next 12 hours.
> 
> BC1
> Jim



I hit bottom Wednesday. Much better now. Might putts in the garage tomorrow, but nothing big.


----------



## Groomengineering (Mar 16, 2011)

We have a runner² (or running runner, or whatever..).  woohoo1







Hopefully a movie soon if I can get a hold of a decent camera. It's been great working with you guys and I can't wait to see the rest running! Thm: th_wav 

Cheers

Jeff


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Mar 19, 2011)

We have another running runner!!

I put everything together today. I remember hearing that the piston and valve rod needed to be 90 degrees out of phase so I set the flywheels. I stuck the air gun into the hole where the fitting would go and it took right off!

I was thinking about cutting some spokes into the flywheels and fancying it up a little. Well I'm not going to do that. I'm going to leave it the way it is. Everything fit together real well and I want people to see it the way it was built. 

Thanks to the other builders. This was a cool experience. If another team build comes up, you guy's just starting out would be crazy not to take advantage of it. For a few hours in the shop and 15 bucks worth of material, I have another treasure for the table at NAMES.


----------



## NickG (Mar 21, 2011)

Looks like a pretty successful team build to me :bow:


----------



## chrispare (Apr 2, 2011)

This was a very succesfull team build.

I finally had a chance to put my parts togeather and it runs pretty good.

Thank you all of those who have participated in this project.


chris


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Apr 2, 2011)

chrispare  said:
			
		

> This was a very succesfull team build.




This got me wondering, Do we have 6 running engines?


----------



## Path (Apr 2, 2011)

*Mine runs ...!!  


Pat H*


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Apr 2, 2011)

I just scanned the thread and the only 2 who have not reported a running engine are Brass_Machine and Tin Falcon.

Have one or both of you assembled your engines? Would be cool to get 100% on this thing.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Apr 2, 2011)

Hiya Steve,

Not yet. Got busy really quickly. I will try to piece it together tomorrow.

Eric


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 3, 2011)

things have been crazy at work . A small company and one of the techs just left for another job. So extra duties for me. and my helper son. Last weekend was a road trip to a museum grand opening left the house around 5 am Sat and back around midnight on Sunday . Hope plan on getting the engine together soon. At least by the spring steam up at kinzer Mid may.
Tin


----------

