# Curved Spoke Flywheel (lots of pictures)



## Powder keg (Nov 10, 2007)

WARNING - BEFORE GOING ANY FURTHER, PART OF THIS POST IS ABOUT USING MOLTEN OR HOT METAL. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW ALL THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS AND CORRECT PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT THAT THIS ENTAILS, AND YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO FOLLOW ALL THE CORRECT PROCEDURES WHEN HANDLING MOLTEN OR HOT METALS, DO NOT TRY ANY OF THE HOT METAL PROCEDURES MENTIONED IN THIS POST. THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THIS POST MIGHT NOT BE CORRECT, IT IS UP TO YOURSELF TO FAMILIARISE YOURSELF WITH THE CORRECT ONES.
NO-ONE ON THIS SITE CAN BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF YOUR ACTIONS IF YOU HURT YOURSELF.

THIS WARNING WAS ADDED BY ADMINISTRATION OF THIS SITE. 



While I'm going to school, I'm trying to take advantage of what is there. They have the full blown version of Mastercam and some neat machines. I've always admired those gorgeous flywheels with unique spokes. I decided to design and machine my own. This flywheel is 5.125" in diameter. I'm going to try and make one that is 3.0625 next week with the same drawing. 

Here is the flywheel appearing out of the wood. 






I'm a little deeper now. The spokes are starting to appear. This is still in rough cutting mode. I am taking .125" deep X .125" wide cuts with a .250" Dia. ball end mill. 





Here the finish passes are started. There are many back and forth movements! I think only .025" was left overall for cleanup. 





Here is an overall view.





After this was done I mirrored the image and made the reverse so I would have a 2 part pattern. It took 3 hours to machine the 2 half's. I'll post some more pictures soon. 

I would be interested in seeing any pictures of unique flywheels. 

Later, Wes


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## 1Kenny (Nov 10, 2007)

Thanks for showing that Wes,

I will be lurking as you go.  

Can you show us images during the pour?

Kenny


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## Cedge (Nov 10, 2007)

Wes... 
You get this those things perfected and I'll be one of the first guys interested in maybe purchasing some of them. 5.5 and 3.5 inch are good sizes and cast iron would be a huge plus, although cast aluminum or brass would certainly still excite a few of us.

Steve


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## Powder keg (Nov 10, 2007)

I started sanding the toolmarks out of this pattern today. I'll drill it for some alignment pins then finish sanding and sealing. 

Would 3.5" be better than 3"? At school all I have to do is rescale the drawing. I'm planing on trying this next week. The hard part will be getting it off the double sided tape:O)

I'd be glad to go through the process I go through to cast stuff. I can't wait to see what this looks like in brass.


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## Cedge (Nov 10, 2007)

Wes the sizes you've chosen will work fine. Just give enough leeway for machining them.

Steve


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## Powder keg (Nov 12, 2007)

I have all the sanding done and I'm putting polyurethane on it tonight. I'll try and cast a couple up on Wednesday evening? I'll also post some more pictures. Are you wanting just the poring or the whole molding process?

Wes


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## 1Kenny (Nov 12, 2007)

Heck, I like seeing as much as you can show us. It is interesting.

Are you doing this at CSI?

Kenny


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## Powder keg (Nov 12, 2007)

The college coarse to learn how to run CNC's is through CSI at the Twin falls High School. I do the casting here at home. I've built my whole foundry from the ground up. I made a muller to prepare the sand. I built an awsome molding bench. The furnace was built by, U guessed it, ME:O) I also built the propane burner that gets everything so hot. I'll post pictures  

Later, Wes


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## 1Kenny (Nov 12, 2007)

That would be great Wes.

I spent a night (slept in my car) in Burley when I was 20. Was stationed at the air base in Mountain Home.

Kenny


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## Powder keg (Nov 14, 2007)

Been Busy. Last night at school I machined the small pattern. Half of it needs to be re-made. One of the little spokes broke. 





To make a casting I lay the first half of the pattern face down and place the flask over it. 





I then place a screen over the flask and screen the sand next to the pattern to be sure there are no blemishes on the surface from a clump. 





I'll pack that down tight. Flip it over and you end up with this. 





I'll place the other half of the pattern on the side stuck in the sand.





Here the top half of the flask is placed over the bottom. You can see my guide, lines that I scribbled into the sand. The white powder is parting dust. It keeps the sand from sticking to things and itself. 





Here are the two halfs. The sprue is cut. The runners and gates are cut. I've blown out everything so it's all clean. 





A close up of the bottom half.





Here I am in the dark, with little safety gear, getting ready to pore. ( Don't do this! Danger!)





Poring.





I'll post the results later. They turned out fairly well though. I did have a small gas bubble in a couple of them though. nothing to make them not usable. Hope this helps.


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## 1Kenny (Nov 15, 2007)

This is great Wes,

You should get an A+ in your class.

Kenny


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## compound driver (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi Wes
Very nice work! Just a word to the wise make your spokes a bit thicker on the outside of the disk.
When I cast mine i go 50% over on the spokes to allow fetteling and to give a little more pudden should the wheel hit a sudden stop.

Cheers kevin


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## rake60 (Nov 15, 2007)

Very nicely illustrated tutorial Wes.

Pattern to casting to finished item is a real treat!
Not many of us will ever be able to do that.

We will be watching for more progress Pics.

Rick


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## Powder keg (Nov 17, 2007)

Here are the Aluminum flywheels that I cast. They came out pretty good. There are a couple of small pits near the center. But they should work OK.





Here is what happens when you run out of Propane and you can't get your bronze hot enough. They are going to be re melted today. 






I love how the brass looks and feels.

I'm not familiar with the word Fetteling? I presume it has to do with the cleaning up of the castings?

Wes


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## Bogstandard (Nov 17, 2007)

It is in fact Fettling - as described when googled - To knock or rub excess material off the edges of (a casting or piece of pottery).
In the UK, at the foundry, it means cleaning up of a metal casting.
Where I come from, very close to the Staffordshire potteries, it means cleaning up the edges of the blank pottery and getting everything smooth before painting or glazing.
In other words, making it look presentable.

John


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## Powder keg (Nov 17, 2007)

Thanks John.

I went out and got some more Propane and I'm trying those bronze ones again. I'll post some pictures.

Wes


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## DICKEYBIRD (Nov 17, 2007)

Hoo-ahh Wes, awesome thread!  I have a large folder of favorites saved with many of the websites that show how to build the freon jug furnaces and how to do casting, etc but haven't had the cujones to actually do it...yet.  I have access to a lot of scrap aluminum castings & forgings at work and it kills me to see it hauled off to the scrapyard for a few $$.  Sigh, one of these days!

I did machine myself a hammer mold last weekend and casted (is casted the past tense of cast?) myself a 1 lb. collet-knocking hammer ala the official Bogstandard approved method.  I bought a Harbor Freight propane weed burner on sale to melt the lead and got my 1st taste of (low temperature) casting.  I loved it!

One thing though, those night shots of yours really show how bloody hot the stuff is.  It gives me the willies looking at your bare arms and face.  I think I'd hafta put a clear lense in an old welding helmet to protect the face (and beard  )and wear at least a long-sleeve leather welding jacket or sumthin'.  You may not be a klutz and accident-prone like me though. :roll:

Milton


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## cfellows (Nov 17, 2007)

How much hotter do you need to get bronze (brass) for pouring?  Aside from the heat, what else is different from casting aluminum?

Chuck


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## Bogstandard (Nov 18, 2007)

Dickey,
How did your hammer turn out?

John


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## Powder keg (Nov 18, 2007)

Aluminum is Easy!!! You shouldn't be afraid to try it Milton. What's the worst that could happen? You might mess up a part? I do it all the time. These Flywheels are kicking my butt. I can't seem to get a bronze one to turn out.

See What I mean?





I'm pretty sure I'm just not hot enough. I finished my pyrometer and I'll be able to tell for sure how hot I'm getting. One good thing though is they don't have any voids in them. I cut them apart for remelting and they looked good on the inside.





Aluminum pores at around 1100 degrees and Bronze pores at around 2200 degrees. 
Keep your fingers crossed....


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## Powder keg (Nov 18, 2007)

I've been pouring bronze way to cold. Probably around 1950 Degrees, guessing buy how things looked? I used my homemade pyrometer and today I poured at 2200 degrees F. and it turned out much better, I think. I'll have to wait an hour or so to see for sure. See how the bronze ran up and out the vent holes. It's never done that before. This picture was taken a minute or so after the pour and you can still see it glowing red.These had to turn out...







To be continued....


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## Powder keg (Nov 18, 2007)

They turned out great!!! I'm glad I finished my Pyrometer today.





I'm thinking of building a pattern for a fancy finger engine to run this flywheel. To Fancy for a finger engine? Maybe, But who cares. It will be fun!


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## rake60 (Nov 18, 2007)

Very nice results Wes!

Thanks again for sharing your progress with us and walking us through
your triumphs as well as the not so perfect castings.
We can all learn from someone who is so willing to show their whole 
process.
Many times the only things we see are the finished, perfect parts, when 
we all know that those parts may not have been made on the first attempt.

Excellent Thread!!!!
Perhaps the best we've seen to date.

Rick


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## 1Kenny (Nov 18, 2007)

Wes,

That will look nice on any engine.

Kenny


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## compound driver (Nov 19, 2007)

Hi Wes
I have to echo the words a few posts back about the bare arms and face. get yourself a chrome leather jacket and a full face shield! 
I used to work next door to a foundry as did my brother. late one night a pile of scrap was dropped into the blast sadly it had some moisture on it. The result was a blow up and a guy running round covered in molten steel he died a slow painful death. 

Molten metal can and will bite you take the precautions so you dont need a year or so of having your ass grafted to your arms! 

Dramatic yes but but so is even a small accident in a foundry. We all have a duty to pass on good safe working practice to others.

That aside nice flywheels.

Cheers kevin


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## tmuir (Nov 19, 2007)

Love those flywheels.
Maybe one day in the future (a long way in the future) I will try some casting.

I must admit I have a full face shield and I wear that even when soft soldering as I have been known to knock parts just after soldering them and although a spot of molten tin and lead won't be life threatening it still hurts when it lands on your face.

As the age old saying goes 'Better to be safe than sorry'.

Keep up the great work and keep posting those pictures.


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## Powder keg (Nov 19, 2007)

Picked up a Face shield, leather sleeves and a full length leather apron today:O) These should come in handy.

Now I need to come up with a casting just as neat for a base for my treadle engine. 

Later, Wes


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## 1Kenny (Nov 19, 2007)

Good deal Wes,

Don't want you to burn up. 

I have a pair of full arm gloves for hot work.

Kenny


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## compound driver (Nov 20, 2007)

Hi Wes
pig your bronze first and then recast with the pigs. On the first smelt as the pot comes to temperature plunge a dime size bit of pure aluminium to the bottom of the pot. Doing this will draw a lot of crap n muck out of the pot and allow you to remove it as slag from the top of teh melt. the pigs you get will be better to work and give a nicer cast the second smelt.
Pigging is very important especialy with dirty bronze. Beware as you plunge the aluminum you will get a flair so dont be over the pot. 

Most of what I do now is iron but I do still cast bearing blocks in gunmetal. My capacity is 50lbs of iron and 30lbs in bronze/brass. You look to have a good setup.

Do you use bentonite in your sand? or oil? Also looks like your using beach sand rather than sand stone sand (both get called green sand). If you are have a go at getting good sandstone flour it really is teh best for detail.

Cheers kevin


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## cfellows (Nov 20, 2007)

compound driver said:
			
		

> Hi Wes
> pig your bronze first and then recast with the pigs. On the first smelt as the pot comes to temperature plunge a dime size bit of pure aluminium to the bottom of the pot. Doing this will draw a lot of crap n muck out of the pot and allow you to remove it as slag from the top of teh melt.
> Cheers kevin



Kevin,

Does plunging the piece of aluminum cause the impurities to rise to the surface?  How long does it take?

Thx...
Chuck


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## cfellows (Nov 20, 2007)

Does anyone know how casting brass differs from casting bronze?

Chuck


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## shred (Nov 20, 2007)

cfellows said:
			
		

> Does anyone know how casting brass differs from casting bronze?
> 
> Chuck


As I understand it (I've not tried it, but have been reading up on it), brasses have a higher melting temperature and can lose zinc during the peocess, whereas some of the bronzes (silicon bronze for one) melt easier and don't lose zinc in the process.  Silicon bronze ends up harder to machine though.


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## Lew Hartswick (Nov 20, 2007)

I always though Brass was Copper - Zinc  while Bronze is Copper - Tin 
(sometimes with other things added as in Silicon)
   ...lew...


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## compound driver (Nov 21, 2007)

HI brass and bronze are much the same to cast with the exception that brass must be pigged with out exception or youl end up with slag in the brass. Zinc is lost but not with one or two melts. A plug of aluminum plunged will help the slag n muck to come to the surface.

Bronze tends to flow a little less easily but fills a hole nicely all the same. 

Cheers kevin


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## Powder keg (Nov 21, 2007)

Chuck, I think Brass and bronze are about the same to cast. As far as ramming up the patterns and things like that I have found no difference. I'm planing on trying some of these in yellow Brass also.

Here is a picture of a 3" and 4" pattern that have machined. 





I have a couple others planed.


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## wareagle (Nov 21, 2007)

It looks like you are getting it down.  Be careful, you may end up supplying all of us with flywheels.  :wink:  Thanks for taking the time to share all of this with us.


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## Powder keg (Nov 30, 2007)

Here is a fuzzy picture of my new design. I'm excieted about this one. I really like how it turned out. 






These are a bit over 4" and 6" in diameter. I'll try and get them cast soon.

Later, Wes


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## tattoomike68 (Nov 30, 2007)

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> Here is a fuzzy picture of my new design. I'm excieted about this one. I really like how it turned out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice, having a cnc really lets you make some sweet stuff.


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## Mcgyver (Dec 12, 2007)

Wes, just notice this thread. great work and thanks for documenting it all. the 4" single curve is my favorite.  So, are you in te flywheel business yet  . Sorry to sound like nanny, but please get some safety goggles, it would be bad if something sputtered on the pour


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## Powder keg (Dec 12, 2007)

I'm planing on selling them. I just need to finish up some stuff around here first. 

I have a new face shield, leather sleeves, and a full length leather apron to wear now. Thanks for calling me on that:O) I'll take a picture of my new gettup when the chance presents itself.

Wes


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## wareagle (Dec 12, 2007)

Wes, your designs are looking great! Not something you see normally, and that adds character to the display. As has been said, thanks for sharing the information.


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## cfellows (Dec 12, 2007)

I'm inspired to build a small CNC Routing machine, maybe something up to about 12" x 12" working area (I'm constrained more by shop space than by cost).  My motivation is more curiosity and desire to learn than any actual need of such a thing. However, it would be nice to be able to make patterns such as those shown in this thread and make castings out of aluminum or zinc/aluminum alloy.

Chuck


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## Cedge (Dec 12, 2007)

Chuck
I'm caught up in the same curiosity. I've been offered a bench top CNC mill at an attractive price but I'm just saving my jujubes for a bit longer before deciding whether to bite the bullet and got there. Just what I need... another learning curve to negotiate...LOL.

Steve


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## DICKEYBIRD (Dec 13, 2007)

Hey Chuck & Steve, I have a simple CNC router and posted a few pics over in the Photos forum if ya'll are interested. (Didn't want to hijack this thread about casting.)


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## Capt Turk (Dec 13, 2007)

Ahhhh...... bunch of sissies worrying about a little burn now and then.  The 75 year old man that stick welded most of the hull of my 42' tugboat welded the whole thing, overhead included, wearing nothing but a bathing suit, flipflops, one glove, and a shield. 
I know "I'm" not that tough ;D but got enough scars from welding burns to show I ain't a skeerd a gett'n burnt. ;D

If ya gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough!!! ;D ;D

Capt Turk


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