# Treadle Finger Engine



## Lamachina58 (Jan 18, 2012)

*Treadle Finger Engine*
I've drawn this model up in solidworks as a CNC project for the students in our CNC course at the University of Montana Helena College of Technology.
Our goal is to manually program most of the parts using G-code. 
I've based the design off many I found on HMEM and links from other users build threads. Any suggestions would be appreciated! 
One tool we use that is extremely helpful is a small program called NCPlot. It is a simple program that helps you visualize the toolpaths as you write the code. This allows us to proof our programs and free up our machines.
I will post photos as we go!





Treadle Finger Engine
Enjoy!
Tom


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## willburrrr2003 (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks for sharing this cool little engine, I will have to build one soon  

Regards,

  Will R.


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## GailInNM (Jan 18, 2012)

Tom,
It will be a nice project as it does not require anything extra tom make it run. Sure beats making the small brass hammer as a project.

One suggestion. If there is not enough room between the treadle and the base with the treadle in its down position for a generous clearance for a fat finger, then relieve the base so there is not a pinch point. A lot of energy is stored in even a small rotating flywheel. It can easily put enough pressure to cause the loss of a finger nail. and can happen to kids if all ages. 

Gail in NM


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## Blogwitch (Jan 18, 2012)

Tom,

You might already know, but other people might not, for very smooth operation, there is a critical bit when it comes to making these engines, and that is the relationship between position of the pivot points (on the height) and the length of the conrod.

I have put a small C-o-C at the end to show you what I mean.

I have forgotten how many of these I have made over the years

John.


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## Lamachina58 (Jan 20, 2012)

Well Gail, that is a really good point, back to the drawing board and John, double back to the drawing board! I really appreciate the input! I don't want a student project that doesn't work.


And yes this is way more fun than the classic punch and brass hammer projects!


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## Blogwitch (Jan 20, 2012)

If you want a real fancy one, put another treadle, crank and conrod on the other side of the flywheel, operating at 180 degs to each other, so you use two fingers.

They reckon they are very difficult to keep running.


John


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## dgjessing (Jan 20, 2012)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> If you want a real fancy one, put another treadle, crank and conrod on the other side of the flywheel, operating at 180 degs to each other, so you use two fingers.



I was thinking about 90 degs.,so it will never get "stuck" at TDC or BDC ;D


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## Blogwitch (Jan 20, 2012)

Dave,

Putting two at 90 degs apart would be masochism. At 180, you stand a chance, as when one is coming up, the other is going down the same amount, if turned into sound, flip--equal beat--flop, at 90, it wouldn't be an instinctive movement, quick flip-flop-pause-quick flip flop. Flip equals right hand treadle, flop equals left hand (or other way around, depends on direction of flywheel). :big: :big:

You need to imagine what the treadles would be doing.


John


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## Lamachina58 (Jan 24, 2012)

I took the suggestions in to consideration and came up with some changes.
 If we get through this we can consider the double treadle. Take a look.





and..


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## b.lindsey (Jan 24, 2012)

I like it Tom....very nice lines. Am pondering doing something similar for our machine shop lab here rather than the usual projects noted. Best of luck with this...maybe you can post some student made engines in time.

Regards,
Bill


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## Blogwitch (Jan 24, 2012)

Just from looking at it Tom, it looks correct, mind you I couldn't tell if the first one you designed was incorrect, wrong view angle.

I am not saying that you have to have these ratios, but they are the ones I came up with and followed, and I never had trouble running them, except for one which had a lightweight flywheel, because children were to use it, but even that was OK when it got going.

Here's a couple that I made and gave away (as I normally do), made to that formula I showed.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezOawsPXMns[/ame]


John


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## Lamachina58 (Jan 24, 2012)

John,
This video is perfect to share! Thanks. The dimensions I had were off from your suggestions and I've adjusted it accordingly.
I have a question though. 
Last week I designed a trials motorcycle footpeg for a company in England and the customer said in one e mail "make it bogstandard!" . I google it but he didn't clarify what that really means.
Confused in Montana.


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## Blogwitch (Jan 24, 2012)

It means, just normal, nothing special, the same as everything else.

John


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## mklotz (Jan 24, 2012)

John,

Perhaps you need to explain what "bog" means in colloquial, British English.


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## Blogwitch (Jan 24, 2012)

Bog (slang) not marsh as in boggy ground = water closet, toilet, crapper (original inventors surname) and any other name you can think of.


John


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## Lamachina58 (Jan 24, 2012)

Maybe he hopes the footpeg will become the industry standard. It is not plain, S.S., investment cast etc.
What is Bog?


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## Blogwitch (Jan 28, 2012)

Rooting thru my archives, I actually found a video of a finger engine I made for a little competition we held on here.

Only hand tools were allowed, and the build must include some part of a wire coathanger.

This really does prove that finger engines can be made out of almost anything and will run if you get the pivots in the correct positions, and run well.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxk4_pTyRug[/ame]

This one is still sitting in the back of my shop and even though the green wood has now fully dried out and the lashings have gone a little slack, it still runs well.

Maybe I should plant it and see if I get a finger engine tree.


John


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## mklotz (Jan 28, 2012)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Maybe I should plant it and see if I get a finger engine tree.



Chuckle.


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## Lamachina58 (Jan 30, 2012)

That is awesome! Really fun.


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## Lamachina58 (Feb 3, 2012)

We are well on our way (my cnc class) to making 15 treadle engines. Students are programming all of these parts with G Code, no cheatin with Gibbscam or MasterCAM yet!
Here is a base and column finished today.






I assigned 70 pages of reading and was informed it is SuperBowl weekend. I didn't know that but too bad, machining comes first!


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## b.lindsey (Feb 3, 2012)

That's looking great so far Tom. But really now....70 pages of reading vs. the super bowl?? I think we know which will win that battle. If your students are anything like mine they have the smarts and the energy, but still lack the discipline and passion all too often. I look forward to seeing more of their progress though and would like to talk some offline about your CNC program as we are rapidly moving in that direction here and have some decisions to make.

Keep up the good work!!

Bill


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## Lamachina58 (Feb 16, 2012)

The students have been making a lot of progress and you may realize that as a CNC project we will do things a little different than you might at home but I encourage thinking for themselves and even allow treading down the wrong path in the name of "teachable moments" as they say in education!

Milling the flywheel after blanking it out on the lathe...will it run true?






Milling the crankarm with plenty of waste.






Print markups. These are programmed manually in G code.






Milling the small pivot.






A small pivot finished.






And the Crash Cup goes too....
Mistakes go in the cup and occasionally further. Even my name is on it! Imagine how the cup got it's name? A student got all the way to turning out the inside and it caught severing the cup at the narrowest part of the stem! Needless to say it rang it's way all the way accross the shop floor. This is the students second and sucessful try.
The students want to build an engine of the crashed parts, to set the bar real low for next years crop.


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## Lamachina58 (Feb 27, 2012)

Much progress has been made and many engines are finishing up nicely!
This is one of several completed today. This has been a fun and challenging project that incorporated many machining processes. Thanks to Bogs for hints on the layout too, I know I need to make the lever a bit longer as the cycle is quite quick and hard to master. I touted it as a "stress reliever" but it has proven anything but.
Test fitting components





The first finished engine! These were completely programmed manually in G code and done entirely on cnc machinery.






And today we have another:


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## flyingtractors1 (Feb 28, 2012)

Nice job, Tom. I'm sure that your students (and you) are highly motivated to learn and having great fun. I've enjoyed reading the various "Finger Engine" threads on this forum and am still playing with the concept ranging from the very basic using only simple tools, as with my "Treadle Wheel Grinder" - posted in this forum, to my "Rail Road Trolley" employing a geared system , to my "Miniature Lathe" employing more elaborate systems and somewhat more sophisticated construction procedure (both also posted). I am still captivated by the endless possibilities and learning opportunities that such projects provide and continue to explore the concepts. I applaud you for providing exceptionally well designed measures to motivate students to want to learn and enjoy developing skills that will serve them forever. That is exactly how we instill that quality which not only draws youngsters to our hobby but ensures that we remain leaders in the global industry and markets. Thank you, and keep up the good job that you are doing. Ralph


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## Blogwitch (Feb 28, 2012)

Tom,

Very nice clean lines you have achieved there. I'm sure they run as well as they look.

I am not an advocate of CNC for home shops, just my personal view, but if your efforts lead to new metal workers coming into industry, then I am all for it.

Well done


John


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## Lamachina58 (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks Ralph and John! I like projects that become something if not useful then interesting.

John, I agree nothing about this couldn't be done manually but for a CNC curriculum I am proud to say we spend a full year in manual machining before going in to CNC and I require 30 hours of manual mill and 30 on lathes each semester while in CNC. I believe practice reinforces all of the skills manual machining teaches you as you apply them to CNC. In reality most of our graduates do end up on manual machines and need those skills. Boeing is a major employer and tells us to not change a thing. You would think they would stress CNC operator training but not so.

Also we often run a project like this in the manual class too, our cannon was a great one last year and one student ground every form tool with a Dremel and fiber cut off disk. You could not tell his from the CNC barells. 

Thanks for the advice!


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## steamboatmodel (Feb 28, 2012)

Lamachina58  said:
			
		

> Thanks Ralph and John! I like projects that become something if not useful then interesting.
> 
> John, I agree nothing about this couldn't be done manually but for a CNC curriculum I am proud to say we spend a full year in manual machining before going in to CNC and I require 30 hours of manual mill and 30 on lathes each semester while in CNC. I believe practice reinforces all of the skills manual machining teaches you as you apply them to CNC. In reality most of our graduates do end up on manual machines and need those skills. Boeing is a major employer and tells us to not change a thing. You would think they would stress CNC operator training but not so.
> 
> ...


I am glad to hear that someone is attempting to train CNC personal with manual and G code experience. When I took my CNC training we only had a six week manual machining course, and only one semester out of three emphasized manual G code programing. The last semester was on a program that I found out later was only used by the very largest companies, and while a great program I never ran across it once out in industry. I will you and your students well.
Regards,
Gerald 
Retired CNC Technician.


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## Lamachina58 (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks Gerald.
We are setting up to do a production run of 40 "engines" and I will post that too.
I will get our prints together and post them to HMEM's plans too.


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## Rexer (Apr 2, 2012)

Heres one running.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK91xZSwdO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK91xZSwdO4[/ame]


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## Lamachina58 (Apr 4, 2012)

The story continues with progress on our 40 engine build!

The students have programmed all of the components in G Code (manually) and made fixtures, soft jaws and all of the proceedures. They have been running the parts in our Haas cnc machines over the past two weeks as a production run.

Here is assembly





Another view of final run in and testing.





They all run beautifully!


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## miner49r (Apr 4, 2012)

Good going Teach.


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## Blogwitch (Apr 4, 2012)

Tom,

Very nicely done indeed.

Design, manufacture and assembly, quality control (hopefully) to working finished product.

Those youths have been shown the basics of mass production manufacturing, perfect.

You really do have a lot of bucks worth sitting on that bench, going by the number of people who have wanted to buy one of mine, at silly money.


John


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## Lamachina58 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks guys and John we all pondered the value last night when we locked up! These will be gifts to the Presidents, Dean's and adviser's of each of our state's Universities next week. 
The materials and tooling were all donated by B&G Machine out of Philadelphia which really helped us a ton. I have four weeks left and wonder what we can do next!
By then we should be able to put a nice set of prints in the Downloads too.
Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions!


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## Lamachina58 (Apr 5, 2012)

The World's Fastest Thumb Engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_fmD8p7DgE&feature=player_detailpage[/youtube]


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## lazylathe (Apr 5, 2012)

Looks like all the students had a great time with this project! ;D

And all of them successful! Thm:

Andrew


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## b.lindsey (Apr 5, 2012)

What a fine collection of engines!! Love the speed shot too :big:

Bill


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## Lamachina58 (Apr 5, 2012)

Here we go! Finished, tested and running!











Here is the class of 2012!


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## flyingtractors1 (Apr 5, 2012)

Nicely done. What a wonderful collection! And the gifting idea is PR Genius - a superb marketing and promotional move that will surely bring good will to your program and to your school. I am proud of you all. Four weeks left and wonder what to do next? A logical progression might be to challenge students to think of this beautifully done model as introductory and design the next generation engine - the improved model - next year's model - a variation - an adaptation - etc. You might even encourage them to develop a marketing or advertising program that would bring more positive recognition to the program through a media publication. You have built more than engines here. You have created an industry worthy of high recognition. Way to go. Ralph


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## tony_m_baker (Jun 23, 2014)

Thank you. I have been scouring the internet for this.


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