# Is the X2 the machine for me



## JimM (Jan 7, 2009)

Hi all

I'm brand new to model engines, machining and the forum too   Although I've owned an Atlas 10" lathe for 6 months I've never actually used it but plan on doing so in the very near future - probably starting out with Stuart 10V or similar.

I was going to just get a vertical slide to use on the lathe but time I've bought that plus adapters etc it makes more sense to flash the cash from the start and buy a dedicated milling machine. I've had a read around and think that an X2 is probably going to be the best compromise (size and price are both right) but will I regret not spending the extra for an X3 

As I'm totally new I'm not sure how my interest will develop, but at present the small stationary engines are what grab me. 

Suppose it's bit like how long is a piece of string but at what stage will I outgrow the X2 or to put it another way can X2 owners give examples of what they haven't been able to do on their machines ? Is it jsut a case that the X3 can handle larger workpieces or is there more to it than that ? 

It's a bit of a Catch22 - I don't want to spend the extra if I'm not likely to use the capacity but I also don't want to have to upgrade in a few months if the X2 won't cut it and pay twice for a machine

Lastly I've seen lots of posts that suggest you have to strip down and rebuild the X2 straight out of the box - is there a guide to doing this anywhere.

Cheers

Jim


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## rake60 (Jan 7, 2009)

Mr. Frank J. Hoose, Jr. has a very good review of the X2 on his Mini Lathe web site.
*Homier Mini-Mill Review*
It tells how to unpack and properly clean the new machine.

Rick


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## Philjoe5 (Jan 7, 2009)

Welcome Jim. I started out with the X2 and did a lot of work with it. It is limited in the amount of room you will have especially in the "z" axis, but there are many creative ways to deal with this limitation. Over a year ago I upgraded to the X3. The X3 has more room in all 3 axes and additionally the added mass can give better finishes. I still use both mills - X3 for removing lots of material on larger workpieces, X2 for smaller stuff. If I could only have one mill, hands down it would be the X3. It has smoother controls, better fit and finish. If you can manage the extra size/weight/cost go for the X3. If not, get the X2 to have a mill. Also check out the yahoo group for minimills (Grizmill I think). Lots of info there too. Good luck and start making those chips

Cheers,
Phil


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## Cedge (Jan 7, 2009)

Jim
Having run the X2 mill for 3 years and then upgrading to the SX3, maybe I can shed some light. Yes... the X2 is what is "affectionately" known as a "kit machine". You will find yourself tweaking it and perhaps even modifying it to fit your needs. That being said, it is a very usable little devil when operated within its capabilities.

Positives....
Inexpensive, therefore less painful if you decide you aren't having fun and have to take a loss.
Small enough to move about as needed
once tuned it's pretty darned accurate
Easy to modify
Takes newbie abuse well

Negatives...
The very devil to maintain tram accurately, but it can be done.
Limited to making relatively light cuts
Heavy cuts will teach you the meaning of chatter.
Small work envelope
Small enough to move about....(grin)
Noisy Gear drive is best modified to a belt drive 

If you think you are going to get seriously hooked, you might want to consider the X3 or SX3. Much heavier, and a more rigid machines which allow for heavier cuts, when needed, without any machine complaints. The over all machine is a much better "out of the crate" experience, with little or no serious tweaking required. Tram it, adjus the gibs and you're pretty much off to the races. I'm happily sold on this machine, in case you didn't notice.

I don't regret learning on the X2 mill but had I known the difference the X3 would make, (they weren't around when I bought the X2) I'd have been up for buying one the moment they were available. The X2 taught me a lot about feeds, speeds and even the art of compensation, but it never made me regret owning it.

Steve


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## lugnut (Jan 7, 2009)

Jim, I can't say much more than repeat what Steve has said. I lucked out and picked up a nearly new used X3 and then was able to sell my X2 for all most as much as I paid for it. My machines are the only two milling machines I've ever seen operated so I can't compare them to the other machines available. Frank Hoose also has a review on the SX3 and X3 machines at http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/X3rvw/X3.htm well worth reading. 
I will never be sorry I upgraded to the X3. One thing I will add is that I don't think you can beat the Grizzly machine and for sure I like the R8 spindle over the MT3. 
Go get one! Either is better than none.
Mel


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## Dunc (Jan 7, 2009)

For another look at the X3 (or a very close equivalent, I think) there is an article in Model Engineers' Workshop, Dec 2008


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## T70MkIII (Jan 7, 2009)

I have an X2 (still in the box). I have never used a mill before, and I think this will be a good one to learn on. There is plenty of info on setup and upgrades on the www.


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## BillH (Jan 7, 2009)

A milling machine is a tool where bigger is truly better. The X3 only costs a little bit more than an X2, everyone who had an X2 then switched to the X3 say the difference is amazing. In a few days I will let you know what it is like upgrading from an X1 to an X3. You can get away better on a small lathe than you could with a mill.


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## Cedge (Jan 7, 2009)

Bill
You really are in for a treat.

Steve


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## Brass_Machine (Jan 7, 2009)

Nothing wrong with the X2. I have had mine for a couple of years now and have put it through it's paces. But like everyone else, I am going to upgrade to either the X3 or larger.

I am going to keep my X2 as well. It is getting a CNC conversion shortly.

Either one you can't go wrong with.

Eric


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## BobWarfield (Jan 8, 2009)

All those Sieg mills seems like very nice machines to me. And I sure have seen some gorgeous work come out of them. 

Every time I get to feeling uppity towards X2's (I have a great big Industrial Hobbies mill), I go look at some of those projects the guys around here build and it humbles me (for a little while, grin).

I don't think there is anything you can't do if you want. That's not to say the bigger mill isn't even more goodness.

My biggest inspiration around the X2 to date has been from Hossmachine, who has a built a complete CNC vertical machine center complete with a rotary toolchanger around one:

http://www.hossmachine.info/

Talk about humbling!

Cheers,

BW


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## BillH (Jan 13, 2009)

My Sieg X3 is home, plugged in, threw in a 3/8 2 flute endmill, some aluminum, and cut away! It is a little nicer than the X1. It was a little noisy making a 1/2" deep slot in a single pass with the 3/8 endmill in 6061, think that was just because the chips were getting stuck between the work and the endmill. It'll do, It'll do.


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## Cedge (Jan 13, 2009)

Bill
I've got a 4 flute 3/8 end mill that is solidly coated with 6061, from doing the same test...LOL . The machine was up to it but I'll never get the melted aluminum out of those flutes.

Steve


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## Maryak (Jan 13, 2009)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> I've got a 4 flute 3/8 end mill that is solidly coated with 6061



I thought every one who mills Alu has one of those 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








Sorry Steve just couldn't help myself.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Cedge (Jan 13, 2009)

Bob
They do.... that they do...LOL

Steve


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## shred (Jan 13, 2009)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> Bill
> I've got a 4 flute 3/8 end mill that is solidly coated with 6061, from doing the same test...LOL . The machine was up to it but I'll never get the melted aluminum out of those flutes.
> 
> Steve


Spring-loaded center punch. It gets the chunks of AL out, but the mill's only marginally more useful since it will clog again faster.


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## dwentz (Jan 13, 2009)

I cut my teeth on a X2, and recently found the mill I was looking for a Clausing 8520. I am keeping the X2, but if you can swing it financially I would go for the largest mill you can afford or have room for. I have low ceilings 6 foot 3 inches in my shop, so a bridgeport will not fit, but the Clausing fits just fine and can be broken down into smaller (lighter) pieces. I chose the X2 because it was a good match for the Taig lathe that I had at the time. I have out grown both, but keep them around for the smaller stuff. Its nice to have 2 more more of each machines at times.

Dale


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## JimM (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice guys, from the sounds of it the X2 is a great little machine but the consensus would appear to be if I can stretch to something bigger than to go for that. I'm going to ring round a couple of suppliers (thanks Firebird and CrewCab for the pointers) and see if I can get a good deal on an X3 

Cheers

Jim


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## BillH (Jan 14, 2009)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> Bill
> I've got a 4 flute 3/8 end mill that is solidly coated with 6061, from doing the same test...LOL . The machine was up to it but I'll never get the melted aluminum out of those flutes.
> 
> Steve


I sprayed wd40 on the endmill, for some reason it is not clogged up. I also ran the mill as fast as it could possibly go on this test.


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