# DoAll Bandsaw for Brian



## Brian Rupnow (Aug 29, 2021)

Friday I drove to Toronto and bought a DoAll bandsaw and a new VFD to drive it from a used machinery dealer. It fit nicely into my F150 pickup truck, and with many tie down straps it rode happily 100 km. from Toronto to my house in Barrie. It is HUGE compared to my old bandsaw, and the tricky part was getting it offloaded from my truck. I had a really bad experience with machinery movers when I bought my lathe five years ago. I had unloaded it from my truck and called the movers. Two giant men came, moved my lathe in about fifteen minutes, and charged me $500. NOT going to do that ever again. So---Today I spent an hour welding up a machine specific device to attach to the end of my engine hoist and unloaded it by myself. Everything went fine, I didn't get hurt, I didn't damage anything on the machine, and it's in my garage. It's 90 degrees outside, and my digital camera fogged up instantly when I took it outside to take pictures. I don't know a lot about this machine yet, but the place I bought it from did turn it on and show me that it did work on three phase. I will post more about it as I learn more about it myself.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 29, 2021)

First question---The new saw has wheels 1.010" wide x 16" diameter, and the blade on it was 1/2" wide. Can I safely run 3/4" wide blades on it. I don't cut curves, and the 3/4" wide blades are what I have always ran on my smaller converted wood cutting bandsaw.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 29, 2021)

My wife took some pictures with her phone camera. Bloody thing works better than my digital camera!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 29, 2021)

After scrambling around unloading the machine from my pickup truck, I finally got wound down enough to look for the model number. It is a model 1612-U with 16" wheels. Although many places like ebay are trying to sell manuals for these machines, I found a manual for this machine put out by the USA army that seems to be free. My new VFD is being shipped to me on Monday or Tuesday, and I have to figure out how to wire it up and get the machine running. There definitely is a connection between the blade guides and the width of blade that can be used. I need to buy a new blade, but have to research this more ---I don't want to buy a bi-metal blade that won't run on this machine because it is too wide.


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## Chiptosser (Aug 29, 2021)

you'll love it,  looks like a 16"     Mine is a military model from Canada,  came from Ingelis (spel)  they made appliances.


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## cds4byu (Aug 30, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> My new VFD is being shipped to me on Monday or Tuesday, and I have to figure out how to wire it up and get the machine running.


Brian, if you haven't done a VFD conversion yet, I'd be happy to help you with it.  Basically, you need to run the VFD output directly to the motor, and connect all the controls in the saw to the DC control inputs of the VFD.

Carl


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## almega (Aug 30, 2021)

Nice looking machine. Yes you can use wider blades, probably up to 1" to 1-1/2" as long as the blade guides will adjust to accommodate. I had an old Boice Crane band saw with 20" x 1" wheels and tires and I used to use 1-1/2" blades to resaw figured wood for marquetry projects that I did in my misspent youth. Never had a problem as the guides are what impacts the blade alignment at the point of the work piece nor did I have any problems with excess stress on the blades due to the wheel over lap. Do be sure you have clearance in the enclosure so you don't contact that and cut a hole in it.


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## Gordon (Aug 30, 2021)

Interesting. With this conversation on Brian's saw I took another look at mine and discovered that the saw is two years older than I am. Saw built in 1938. The fact that it is still working says something about how well the saw was made.  

I have only ever used 1/2" blades. If another size is used you are supposed to change the guides.


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## almega (Aug 30, 2021)

Gordon said:


> If another size is used you are supposed to change the guides.


I am not so sure about changing the guides so much as resetting their adjustment. That is all I ever had to do with mine and I used blades from 1/8" up to 1-1/2". Perhaps your saw is different and a complete change is needed, though I would think most manufacturers would design their equipment to be somewhat flexible in that area.


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## Gordon (Aug 30, 2021)

almega said:


> I am not so sure about changing the guides so much as resetting their adjustment. That is all I ever had to do with mine and I used blades from 1/8" up to 1-1/2". Perhaps your saw is different and a complete change is needed, though I would think most manufacturers would design their equipment to be somewhat flexible in that area.


The parts list shows different guides for different blade width. This is the hardened friction guide which is set at 45° to the blade. I have always used 1/2" blades and the guides which I have never changed are marked for 3/8". I am not sure how critical this is. I suspect that a lot of saws are being run with different blade width without changing the guides. The guides seem to be rather expensive at about $20 each and four are required. I am sure that most folks here would just make their own.


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## almega (Aug 30, 2021)

My saw actually had bearings as guides with one on each side that could be adjusted for blade thickness and moved forward and back to keep clear of the teeth. There was a third bearing that was at the rear of the blade to prevent it moving back when pressure was applied to make a cut to keep the blade from drifting back to the point where the teeth could contact the side guide bearings and that bearing could be moved forward and back to accommodate varying blade widths.


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## Gordon (Aug 30, 2021)

This is what is on my saw and what is shown in the parts manual. There are other aftermarket blade guides that I have seen.


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## almega (Aug 30, 2021)

Gordon - I see what you mean. There is no adjustability on your guide so you have no choice but to use different guides when you change blades. Mine was similar to this Rockwell set up with one below the table and one above that was adjustable up and down to accommodate material thickness.





						Sawblade.com Product Detail
					

Custom Welded Band Saw Blades online, Buy direct and save up to 30% on Bandsaw blades for Metal and Wood




					www.sawblade.com


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 30, 2021)

Gordon---My saw has the same set up, but I think the bearing is seized up on mine. I am still in "finding things out" mode here.---Brian


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## Gordon (Aug 30, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Gordon---My saw has the same set up, but I think the bearing is seized up on mine. I am still in "finding things out" mode here.---Brian


My bearing failed so I just put a new standard bearing in. Apparently the original uses as standard bearing with a hardened cap over the bearing. Mine did not have a cap as least when it failed. The bearing I used has been installed for a couple of years and I have a spare so I will probably be OK. Others apparently have made a cap.

FYI The guide is .500 wide x 2 7/16 lg x .510 thk for 5/8 blade and .620 thk for 3/4 blade. They should be fairly easy to make from tool steel.


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## SpringHollow (Aug 30, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> My wife took some pictures with her phone camera. Bloody thing works better than my digital camera!!




You never told us you were a wizard capable of levitating your machines with your red magic wand!


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## almega (Aug 30, 2021)

He must be a wizard because he seems to have worked his magic on his wife to allow him to make all these fancy purchases.


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## trlvn (Aug 30, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> It is HUGE compared to my old bandsaw


Just curious what you had before and why you were looking to upsize?

Craig


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 30, 2021)

trlvn---my old bandsaw is a 16" wood cutting bandsaw which I have modified to cut metal by adding a third jackshaft and pulleys to, so it will run slower. It works, and works very well, but if you "lean on" the metal at all, the belts slip. I've been going to tighten the belts up for the last three months, but never got to it. I got a surprise engineering design job with about two weeks work in it, so decided to take my "windfall" money and buy a real metal cutting bandsaw.


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## awake (Aug 30, 2021)

cds4byu said:


> Brian, if you haven't done a VFD conversion yet, I'd be happy to help you with it.  Basically, you need to run the VFD output directly to the motor, and connect all the controls in the saw to the DC control inputs of the VFD.
> 
> Carl


If I am seeing correctly, there is a blade welder on this machine. Would that need 3-phase, or would it run off of single-phase?


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## jkimberln (Aug 30, 2021)

I think the blade welder current is generated at fairly low voltage through a transformer.  Unless that transformer is wound for three phase and says so, it probably runs off single phase.  But even if it does run off three phase, I wouldn't want to run it off a VFD.  A rotary converter would probably be OK.  As far as I know, the output of a VFD should never be switched on or off while the input is hot.


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## Chiptosser (Aug 30, 2021)

Why would you want a VFD for this saw??
I has a manual variable speed .
Most of the Doall welders are 200-240v


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## jkimberln (Aug 30, 2021)

You would want a VFD if you didn't have 3 phase in your shop and the machine motor was three phase.  The VFD is the cheapest way to achieve 3  phase from single phase.  So you set the manual variable speed at max and use the the logic circuit in the VFD to turn the machine on and off and vary the speed.


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## Chiptosser (Aug 31, 2021)

You can think of it that way.  In that situation the motor is put under the highest starting load. That defeats the mechanical advantage of starting at a lower speed with the variable speed pulleys. For single use motors, a Phazpak unit is cheaper than a VFD.
Two wires to connect.


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## L98fiero (Aug 31, 2021)

Chiptosser said:


> You can think of it that way.  In that situation the motor is put under the highest starting load. That defeats the mechanical advantage of starting at a lower speed with the variable speed pulleys. For single use motors, a Phazpak unit is cheaper than a VFD.
> Two wires to connect.


Hard to tell from their website but aren't the Phazpak units just start capacitors? If that's the case, while that would probably be fine for home use, the driven motor will only produce about 2/3 of the stated horsepower,


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## trlvn (Aug 31, 2021)

L98fiero said:


> Hard to tell from their website but aren't the Phazpak units just start capacitors? If that's the case, while that would probably be fine for home use, the driven motor will only produce about 2/3 of the stated horsepower,


You are exactly right.  If you search for "static phase converter", there are several suppliers of such equipment.  The description from North American Phase Converters website, as an example, says:



> A static phase converter is used to generate 3 phase power during the starting of a motor.  A static phase converter consists of one or more start capacitors and a start relay.  The start capacitors produce electricity across the third winding of a motor during start up, once the motor is up to speed these capacitors are disconnected from the motor winding.  The motor load is now running on just the two single phase lines of power (in essence, the motor is single phasing).  There is at least a 1/3 power loss of the motor horsepower.
> 
> Designed for:  Light and medium starting and running motors.











						Static Phase Converters
					

Static Phase Converters   A static phase converter is used to generate 3 phase power during the starting of a motor.  A static phase converter consists of one or more start capacitors and a start relay.  The start capacitors produce electricity across the third winding of a motor during start up,




					www.northamericaphaseconverters.com
				




McMaster-Carr offers a variety of units.  USD 196.55 for a 1-3 horsepower unit, for instance.









						McMaster-Carr
					

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




					www.mcmaster.com
				




For a rough comparison, McMaster wants USD 683.86 for a 2HP VFD








						McMaster-Carr
					

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




					www.mcmaster.com
				




Craig


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## OrangeAlpine (Aug 31, 2021)

I have two Ebay VFD's and find them to be a great value.  Easy to install and work remarkably well.  The preset values work and the soft starts are terrific.

Bill


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## trlvn (Aug 31, 2021)

BTW, on another forum that I follow, a fellow has been restoring and adding a VFD to a DoAll bandsaw.  Albeit is somewhat larger model:



			100 dollar DoAll bandsaw - Old Woodworking Machines
		


Craig


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## Peter Murphy (Aug 31, 2021)

Nice Purchase Brian. If you lookup Steve Summers he recently did a series of videos on restoring a DoAll Band saw like yours. He did make up some new guides. 
Cheers Peter from Oz


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## awake (Aug 31, 2021)

jkimberln said:


> You would want a VFD if you didn't have 3 phase in your shop and the machine motor was three phase.  The VFD is the cheapest way to achieve 3  phase from single phase.  So you set the manual variable speed at max and use the the logic circuit in the VFD to turn the machine on and off and vary the speed.



Cheapest? Maybe not. I put together a rotary phase converter to run my 2hp Bridgeport for a total cost of around $40 - and most of that was for the twist-lock plug and receptacle!

Of course, to do something for that sort of price, one has to have a free or nearly free 3-phase motor of suitable size on hand. I picked up a 3hp 3-phase motor out of the scrap bin; it had been scrapped because the front bell housing was cracked and split. I used a couple of clamps to hold it together and tested the motor - the bearings were a bit noisy, but overall it ran fine. So I tig-brazed the bell housing back together, and have been using it for many years now as the heart of my RPC.

One could stop there, just using a spare motor and starting it using a rope - but of course I wanted more convenience. I talked with a neighbor who does HVAC work and was granted unlimited access to his scrap pile, full of transformers and contactors and capacitors - I was able to get everything I needed to put together a starting circuit and balancing capacitors, and the only thing I had to add was a couple of push-button momentary switches (a few dollars from Amazon) and, as mentioned, the twist-lock plug and receptacle (maybe $25? $30? something like that).

I built an enclosure out of scrap plywood, and voila - my RPC has been working flawlessly for many years now.


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## JLaning427 (Aug 31, 2021)

I don’t know about your part of the world, but in the US, a VFD is a reasonably cheap way to run a 3 phase motor on Single phase.  A VFD capable of 3hp is available on Amazon for $88.  I have one running a 3hp  KV24 bandsaw.  You get soft starts and the ability to vary speed with the touch of a button.   I have a switch set up to hit 60hz and 30hz (half speed).  If I need slower or faster I crank the mech variable speed up or down.  Or change ranges low range for ferous metals, high range for wood and non-ferous metals.  And yes, it probably cost more than a junk 3ph idler motor and some capacitors, but it was pretty close to plug and play.

James


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 31, 2021)

After almost a full days work, the bandsaw is in its home position. Far more work there than simply unloading it from my truck. It's amazing what one old man with a lot of rope, a garden tractor, and a rockbar stolen from the Faraday uranium mines 50 years ago can accomplish. In the pictures you will see some of the remaining garage sale stuff that has yet to go. My wife has told me that I can have one bay of the garage for my equipment, but By God she wants a full bay left for her Honda in the wintertime.----Yes Dear!!!---. This saw has a really nice guide or fence on the tabletop. I'm sure that will come in very handy. My VFD came today, and after a very quick look I decided that it was out of my league, so I called a friend who is an electrical guy and he is going to come over and wire it for me.


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## stragenmitsuko (Sep 1, 2021)

VFD's are defintly the way to go . 
The softstart , the slope down , the breaking options; not to mention the rpm controll  .... unbeatable . 
I have 3 phase in my shop , we even have 3*380V in europe and still I rewired most of 
my machines to use a a 3phase in - 3 phase out vfd .

Very nice bandsaw  

Pat


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## IC-man (Sep 1, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> After almost a full days work, the bandsaw is in its home position. Far more work there than simply unloading it from my truck. It's amazing what one old man with a lot of rope, a garden tractor, and a rockbar stolen from the Faraday uranium mines 50 years ago can accomplish. In the pictures you will see some of the remaining garage sale stuff that has yet to go. My wife has told me that I can have one bay of the garage for my equipment, but By God she wants a full bay left for her Honda in the wintertime.----Yes Dear!!!---. This saw has a really nice guide or fence on the tabletop. I'm sure that will come in very handy. My VFD came today, and after a very quick look I decided that it was out of my league, so I called a friend who is an electrical guy and he is going to come over and wire it for me.


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## IC-man (Sep 1, 2021)

My dad used to say "give me a fulcrum point and a long enough lever and i will move the earth.


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## ajoeiam (Sep 1, 2021)

IC-man said:


> My dad used to say "give me a fulcrum point and a long enough lever and i will move the earth.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm - - - dad was quoting Archimedes . . .


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## Gordon (Sep 1, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> After almost a full days work, the bandsaw is in its home position. Far more work there than simply unloading it from my truck. It's amazing what one old man with a lot of rope, a garden tractor, and a rockbar stolen from the Faraday uranium mines 50 years ago can accomplish. In the pictures you will see some of the remaining garage sale stuff that has yet to go. My wife has told me that I can have one bay of the garage for my equipment, but By God she wants a full bay left for her Honda in the wintertime.----Yes Dear!!!---. This saw has a really nice guide or fence on the tabletop. I'm sure that will come in very handy. My VFD came today, and after a very quick look I decided that it was out of my league, so I called a friend who is an electrical guy and he is going to come over and wire it for me.


Do you have 220 volt at that location? I would have thought that placing where the old saw is located would have put it near the 220 volt used by the welder.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2021)

I can't put the new saw on that side of the garage because it is too big, and would stick out into the area my wife needs to park her car in during the winter.


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## comstock-friend (Sep 1, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> First question---The new saw has wheels 1.010" wide x 16" diameter, and the blade on it was 1/2" wide. Can I safely run 3/4" wide blades on it. I don't cut curves, and the 3/4" wide blades are what I have always ran on my smaller converted wood cutting bandsaw.



The chart on the front lists all the blade widths, materials, and speeds and feeds. And if like the bigger DoAll's, the guides for the other blade widths are in a rack inside the blade cover. But you know all this by now I hope.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2021)

Comestock Friend---I just ran out to the garage and looked, but no luck!!! No blade guides in there.---Brian


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## comstock-friend (Sep 1, 2021)

Brian, is the rack inside? Maybe the smaller saws are not so well equipped... (Beautiful saw by the way!)


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## Gordon (Sep 1, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> I can't put the new saw on that side of the garage because it is too big, and would stick out into the area my wife needs to park her car in during the winter.


I suppose that if it comes down to the saw or the wife you probably are better off sticking with the wife. If your wife is like mine it would be difficult to find another one who would put up with metal shavings tracked into the house. holes burned in your clothes and permanently stained hands.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2021)

Gordon---My wife is great. She knows I love my machine shop stuff, and doesn't get too excited when I buy machine shop related things.--I had the other version of a wife for 14 years, but she ran off with an auto mechanic.--Best thing that ever happened to me.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2021)

This is a rather crummy picture of a segment of 3/4" blade from my small bandsaw held in place in the guides of the DoALL saw. It fits between the angled guides and the back of it is up against the bearing. If I ran a blade this width with no other changes, all I can see happening is that the blade will not run exactly centered on the 16" band wheels. If I take the DoAll blade guide assembly apart, there might even be room to move the bearing farther back x 1/8", so the blade can run centered on the 16" band wheels.


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## Gordon (Sep 1, 2021)

The rear wheel does not move. the guides are just different thickness. As far as I can determine the guide thickness for 1/4=.165 thk; 5/16=.235 thk; 3/8=.265 thk; ; 1/2=.375 thk; 5/8=.510 thk; 3/4=.620 thk. Profile is the same for all of them. They are just hardened tool steel. I doubt that a slight variation on thickness would matter much. You can probably find somebody with a machine shop who could make you some.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2021)

Having a closer look at this blade guide, the angled fingers are stamped 1/2". Notice however, that the ball bearing is setting about 3/16" proud of the cast housing. The bearing on my saw is seized up, so I have to remove and possibly replace it. It will be interesting to see if that bearing can be moved farther into the cast housing.


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## Gordon (Sep 1, 2021)

Mine is a 1/4 ID x 3/4 OD cartridge bearing and the axle is a press fit in the bearing and the housing. Originally there is a cap over the face of the bearing. Your saw is quite a bit newer than mine so yours may be different.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2021)

A little more information--With the saw guides removed, I have a better look at the bearing. The blade doesn't ride against the face of the bearing. It rides against the face of a mushroom headed hardened steel stub shaft which fits into the bearing.  No snap rings are visible, but it looks to me like that thing on the back side is just a cap that should be removeable? The bearing is not seized up after all. It rotates freely.  I may just put it all back together and put it back on the saw. I have come to a decision about the saw blade. I am going to go with a 1/2" wide blade. I will get a bi-metal  blade with 5-8 staggered tooth pattern. I want to see the saw run successfully before I try something like a different blade size. Who knows? Maybe the 1/2" blade will do everything I want it to.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2021)

Figuring things out as I roll along----My little 16" wood cutting bandsaw had a 3/4" wide wood cutting blade on it when I bought it. I added a shaft and pulleys to slow the blade down, and then after seeing how quickly it ran thru ordinary metal cutting blades, I switched to bi-metal blades. With a 3/4" wide blade, you really can't cut curves. That's okay, I never really wanted to cut curves. 99% of my cuts were simple straight cuts. Now this new to me DoAll saw is not called a "bandsaw". It says right on it that it is a "contour saw".---Maybe that should have made me stop and think, but damn, it has two pulleys and a saw band on it, so to me, that's a bandsaw. After two or three days of "faffing about", I now understand why it had a 1/2" sawblade on it.---To cut contours---DUH---Oh well, I'll try it with a 1/2" bi metal blade and see if I'm happy with the results. Maybe it will be fine. If it isn't fine, then it seems that I can make it fine by fiddling with the blade guides and putting a 3/4" blade on it. Here I am, 75 years old, worked in engineering all my life, and never knew that there was such a thing as a "Contour Saw". Life never ceases to amaze me!!!


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## Steamchick (Sep 2, 2021)

I have a standard hacksaw and right arm that cuts contours - like it or not... Maybe I should have been a saw-bones instead of an engineer, as they don't make straight cuts either. 
But as my Dad put it: the engineer tells the proper guy what he wants, not how to do it, then walks away so the guy can produce what is wanted, without any conflict between how he did it and how the engineer thought it should be done.... Worked well for me most of the time...


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## L98fiero (Sep 2, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> With a 3/4" wide blade, you really can't cut curves. That's okay, I never really wanted to cut curves. 99% of my cuts were simple straight cuts. Now this new to me DoAll saw is not called a "bandsaw". It says right on it that it is a "contour saw".


Your 3/4" blade will cut a radius, albeit a fairly large one, here's an indication of what a given blade should cut. That is from a woodworking site so your blades may be a bit different as, I think, the set on the teeth is wider for metal cutting blades, on my Baxter roll-in type saw they list the radius for a 3/4 inch blade as 4".


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## willray (Sep 3, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Here I am, 75 years old, worked in engineering all my life, and never knew that there was such a thing as a "Contour Saw". Life never ceases to amaze me!!!



You should check out what DoAll was up to, when they were really serious about the contour-saw thing.  This thread on PracticalMachinist is a good resource:

Contour bandsaws - what does that mean?

Their lineup included full-power feed for the table, and a special "steering" device to help you drive a part through complex curves while maintaining consistent feed pressure.  The welder on your saw isn't there so that you can make your own blades, it's there so that you can break your blade, put it through a hole drilled in the work, and re-weld it for cutting completely-closed internal curves.

There's also - and I think these are still available - bands with literal metal-cutting file segments on the outside surface, so that you could run the thing as a giant die filer.

You've got one beast of a saw.


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## JLaning427 (Sep 3, 2021)

DoAll certainly was a big name and often leader in the industry.  

And yes, that's exactly why the welder is on the machine!  

Their band filer is certainly a unique piece of equipment.  I have read of people converting band filers to band saws.  But I have serious doubts that band files could be run on a normal bandsaw without significant modifications, assuming you could find them for reasonable money.  Guides and a backup / platen system for the files would be necessary additions, as well as removing the existing blade guides.  Probably not worth the trouble.  I think there is a reason we don't see these in production anymore.  Abrasive belts have come a long way.....

James


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## willray (Sep 3, 2021)

JLaning427 said:


> I have serious doubts that band files could be run on a normal bandsaw without significant modifications, assuming you could find them for reasonable money.



I'm pretty sure my Zephyr is able to run either normal blades or band files.  I will admit to it being a completely unfounded assumption on my part that other DoAll  models were convertible!  Might not be proper to call the Zephyr a "normal bandsaw" though  

Will


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2021)

There is no joy in Mudville---My electrical friend who has really impressive skills came to my house this morning at 9:30 and proceeded to wire up my VFD. While he was doing his wiring thing, I decided on a mounting location and mounted the VFD on the saw.  After a whole lot of wire pulling and connecting, he hit the start button on the VFD, and the 3 phase motor started running.---but---the VFD was showing a "trip" light. The VFD was shut down, everything was checked, and the start button was pushed again. This time the VFD came to life, but the motor didn't start, and the "trip" light on the VFD came on again. Everything was checked, then re-checked, then checked again.---No Dice. The instruction booklet which came with the VFD acknowledged that yes, there was a "trip" light, but failed to mention what to do about it, nor exactly what it meant. Finally at 3:00 my friend had to leave and go home, with both of us scratching our heads and the saw still not functioning.  I don't really need the saw right now, because I still have my smaller converted wood bandsaw. In a total crunch, I can take the two horsepower single phase motor of my old power hacksaw and run the DoAll saw with it---if I have to. Still, a rather disappointing way to end the day. My friend will do some research on Tuesday when everything is open again, and hopefully come up with an answer.


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## Gordon (Sep 5, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> There is no joy in Mudville---My electrical friend who has really impressive skills came to my house this morning at 9:30 and proceeded to wire up my VFD. While he was doing his wiring thing, I decided on a mounting location and mounted the VFD on the saw.  After a whole lot of wire pulling and connecting, he hit the start button on the VFD, and the 3 phase motor started running.---but---the VFD was showing a "trip" light. The VFD was shut down, everything was checked, and the start button was pushed again. This time the VFD came to life, but the motor didn't start, and the "trip" light on the VFD came on again. Everything was checked, then re-checked, then checked again.---No Dice. The instruction booklet which came with the VFD acknowledged that yes, there was a "trip" light, but failed to mention what to do about it, nor exactly what it meant. Finally at 3:00 my friend had to leave and go home, with both of us scratching our heads and the saw still not functioning.  I don't really need the saw right now, because I still have my smaller converted wood bandsaw. In a total crunch, I can take the two horsepower single phase motor of my old power hacksaw and run the DoAll saw with it---if I have to. Still, a rather disappointing way to end the day. My friend will do some research on Tuesday when everything is open again, and hopefully come up with an answer.


I am sure that your electrical friend has checked but the motor has to be connected internally for 220 volts. Most industrial equipment is wired for 440 volt so the motor has to be changed also.


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## JLaning427 (Sep 5, 2021)

Oh, no!  Well that isn't much fun..

I will second what Gordon said, confirm that the motor is wired (in the junction box physically on the motor) for 208/240 not 440/460/480.  Usually there will be 12 wires that need to be reconnected in the correct arrangement.

And obviously you need to confirm it really is a 3 phase motor, and that someone didn't swap it for a single phase motor somewhere in the saw's life.

Also, the drive needs to be connected directly to the motor. Which means bypassing the contactor / motor starter that would have been factory installed in the machine.  If there is anything in between the motor and the drive, it won't work right.

Additionally, you may need to look at various settings in the drive.  Like number of poles and such, but usually it'll start and try to run with those kinds of settings mismatched, just won't run quite perfect.

If you've already done all that stuff, then we will need to ponder what else could be wrong.

James


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2021)

Wiring up VFD's is beyond my skill set. When I went to Toronto to buy the saw, the man selling the saw plugged it into what he said was 220 volt 3 phase, and the saw ran nicely. I'm sure that we can get it all sorted out Tuesday.


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## JLaning427 (Sep 5, 2021)

Well, if you have seen it run, you should be ok.

Really, the trick to wiring up a VFD is that the motor needs to be wired directly to the VFD.  No switches, no motor starter, do not pass go, do not collect $200, connect it directly to the VFD.  

Which means wiring up the 3 phase side (output) is actually pretty easy.  3 phases and ground, direct from the VFD to the motor (terminal blocks or wire nuts are ok).  

The input side of the VFD is pretty straightforward (220V is 2 hots and a ground).  And it sounds like you might be ok there already, as it powered up.

Controls is a bit more exciting (or painful, depending on how you feel about electricity), but you can usually just use the buttons on the front of the VFD during setup. 

James


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## trlvn (Sep 5, 2021)

Gordon said:


> I am sure that your electrical friend has checked but the motor has to be connected internally for 220 volts. Most industrial equipment is wired for 440 volt so the motor has to be changed also.



220, 440, 380, 550...it is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates!  You never know what you're going to find!!






Larger industrial 3 phase equipment in Canada is more likely to be 550/575/600 volts, 60 hertz.  But there are lots of other variants out there:









						Complete list: Three-phase electric power (voltages/frequencies) - World Standards
					

This is a chart which provides an overview of the three-phase voltages and frequencies in use in all countries around the world.




					www.worldstandards.eu
				




Standards are so good that we just seem to want lots of them!

Craig


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## Harglo (Sep 6, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Wiring up VFD's is beyond my skill set. When I went to Toronto to buy the saw, the man selling the saw plugged it into what he said was 220 volt 3 phase, and the saw ran nicely. I'm sure that we can get it all sorted out Tuesday.


Brian
Just some thoughts. Once you get running. Make sure the switching is -first turn switch from the 220 single phase wall source. Then the saw motor run/stop must be controlled by the key pad or remote. To turn on an off the saw motor just form the wall source will in time wipe out the FVD. I have near the same saw the star up current is hi as needs to the variable speed parts working. Haven't read earlier posts but what is the saws HP an the rating FVD HP? Leaving the power from the wall switch on to the FVD doesn't hert any thing infact some would stay is good to keep capacitor's charged. I have 7 fvds in my shop but have a hard time understanding the lack of straight forward info from them.
Harvey


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## ajoeiam (Sep 6, 2021)

trlvn said:


> 220, 440, 380, 550...it is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates!  You never know what you're going to find!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The cartoon - - - - scarily correct!!!!!!!! 
Every update of most standards seems to cause a LOT more issues.
(I think it makes the developers happy - - - in inverse relation to the number of issues - - - grin!)

The comment regarding large industrial equipment in Canada is likely true in eastern Canada. 
In oilfield country - - - not so much.


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## solarenergyadventures (Sep 6, 2021)

Hi all, Have you checked whether the motor needs to be wired in "star" or "delta" for the VFD you are using? That could set a fault. Also you want the motor and the VFD to be close together because long wire runs can set up weird harmonics that do bad things.  I hope that helps. Cheers and good luck.


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## stragenmitsuko (Sep 6, 2021)

If it's a 380-220 volt motor , it should be wired in delta . 
If it's a 110-220 volt it needs to be wired in star . 
If it's a 600-400 volt motor it can't be used in this application .

The vfd's 3 output terminals have to be wired directly to the motor without any switches , relay's ,thermal protection or whatever and with the shortest possible wiring .  I usually locate the vfd next to or on even on the motor . 

All controls like start stop reverse and rpm  should be handled by the vfd either on the vfd control panel or by external wiring .

Pat


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## Gordon (Sep 6, 2021)

Brian: I blame you for all of my wasted time. My DoAll saw was just fine until you started looking at yours. I discovered that my blade guides were wrong and have been wrong for the last 10 years. I had guides for a 3/8 wide blade and I always use a 1/2" blade. Obviously once I discovered that I had to fix that immediately so I ended up making new guides. Obviously it follows that it is your fault.   

Actually now the blade does run truer and hopefully I will not end up twisting the blades.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 9, 2021)

Question of the day is about bandsaw blades. On my smaller converted wood cutting saw, I found that the best blade was 3/4" wide bi-metallic with a 5-8 tooth configuration. My new DoAll saw takes a 120" x 1/2" blade and I can get it in bi-metallic, but the tooth configuration is only available in 10-14 and 8-12. I cut mild steel and/or aluminum from 1/8" thick up to 2" thick, with the most cutting done on 1/2"+/- steel or aluminum. Which tooth configuration would you suggest?---Brian


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## L98fiero (Sep 9, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Question of the day is about bandsaw blades. On my smaller converted wood cutting saw, I found that the best blade was 3/4" wide bi-metallic with a 5-8 tooth configuration. My new DoAll saw takes a 120" x 1/2" blade and I can get it in bi-metallic, but the tooth configuration is only available in 10-14 and 8-12. I cut mild steel and/or aluminum from 1/8" thick up to 2" thick, with the most cutting done on 1/2"+/- steel or aluminum. Which tooth configuration would you suggest?---Brian


The general idea on selecting blades is you always want at least 2 teeth in the cut at any time so the best suggestion is both, when you're contouring 1/8 or even 1/4 plate you'll need the 10-14 but with the 2" stock you'll want a much more coarse tooth pattern that has a larger gullet to accommodate the chips. FWIW, there are 1/2 x 18 tpi bi-metal blades listed in a catalog I have for thinner stock as well. In case you don't already have one, a wax stick is a good idea to keep the blade lubricated, too.


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## Gordon (Sep 9, 2021)

I have always used 14 tooth. Anything with fewer teeth ends up ripping out teeth when I cut anything thin. Rule is at least three teeth in the part during the cut. I have never used the bimetal blades. You may want to just use a straight blade to try it out. They are much cheaper and the problem is tearing out teeth and the bimetal blade is going to tear out teeth. I have seldom replaced a blade because it was worn out. Maybe I am just too careless.


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## comstock-friend (Sep 9, 2021)

stragenmitsuko said:


> If it's a 380-220 volt motor , it should be wired in delta .
> If it's a 110-220 volt it needs to be wired in star .
> If it's a 600-400 volt motor it can't be used in this application .



In the USA, the most commonly found three phase motor will be dual voltage 230/460. My company built anti-terrorist barriers and shipped them to pretty much every capital city in the world. We usually got by with about 5 basic motors for the hydraulic power units. The 230/460 motors for 60 hertz are quite content to operate on 220/380 50 hertz. The occasional single phase 120/240 60 Hz, or 220 50 Hz, and of course 600V 60Hz for Canada.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 9, 2021)

No joy again today with getting the saw to run. My electrical wizard has been in touch with the manufacturers/trouble-shooters for this VFD, and thought he would have success today, but it didn't happen. Now I wait for more phone calls, before seeing if I have a bad VFD, or a bad motor, or just general bad. I seen the motor run when I bought it at the used machinery place. I seen it run once very briefly here. I did find out where I can buy a bi-metallic 1/2" x 0.025" x 120" x 6-10 pitch blade locally, so have ordered one.---I do have a 2 HP electric motor, 110 volt that I can use on the bandsaw if all else fails, but I'd really rather use the motor that came with the saw.


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## Gordon (Sep 9, 2021)

Brian:
Just FYI I just looked at my saw and the motor has been changed. It is a 3/4 HP 120 volt motor. I have never had a problem with it stalling or even slowing the motor. I would think that as long as you are going to be only running it at low speed you would not have a problem with a similar motor. Where you need more power is when you are cutting something requiring high speed.


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## trlvn (Sep 9, 2021)

R&D Bandsaws in Brampton, ON offer both bi-metal and "Carbon flexible back" blades in variety of widths and tooth patterns.  You can buy coil material and weld your own or have them make the size you need.  They are super knowledgable about woodworking use and I assume they have similar expertise for metal cutting applications:









						Bandsaw Blades Archives - R&D Bandsaws
					

Bandsaw Blades Archives - R&D Bandsaws | Bandsaw blades




					tufftooth.com
				




Their order desk is at  1-800-461-3895

Craig


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 9, 2021)

My middle son works for Fastenall in town, and they sell made to length bandsaw blades. I ordered a blade from them today.


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## ajoeiam (Sep 10, 2021)

Gordon said:


> I have always used 14 tooth. Anything with fewer teeth ends up ripping out teeth when I cut anything thin. Rule is at least three teeth in the part during the cut. I have never used the bimetal blades. You may want to just use a straight blade to try it out. They are much cheaper and the problem is tearing out teeth and the bimetal blade is going to tear out teeth. I have seldom replaced a blade because it was worn out. Maybe I am just too careless.


Hmmmmmmmmmm - - - and why are you asking one (!!!!!!!!!!!) blade to do all the work. 
Its not that hard to change blades. 
One should have at least 3 blades in stock/use!
One for the bigger material being cut. 
One for the most common material size being cut. 
One for thin material cutting. 
With good break in and careful use you can be a LOT of life out of a blade. 
(Its going to save you money having the different blades!!!)


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## JLaning427 (Sep 10, 2021)

ajoeiam makes a great point.

I don't think too many of us would use a crosscut saw to rip with, or a 4 flute end mill on aluminum, or put with a 9 iron.  All could be made to work,, but we'd rather pick the best "horse for the course", right?  Why treat your bandsaw any different?

Having multiple blade choices (both TPI and width) is desirable.  Narrow blades (1/8"?) for intricate work.  1/2" blades for general purpose work.  Maybe 3/4" or 1" blades for straight cuts through thick material.  And a variety of pitches.  Ripping or resawing thick wood (the saw can do it, although you may not have a need) will require 1 to 2 TPI.  Thin sheet metal you'll likely want 18 to 24 TPI.  And there are applications in between.

Once you get the saw running, and I am sorry to  hear you are still having issues, you will need to get or make guides for all the blade widths you want / need.  Anf source the blades you need most.  And get proficient at changing blades.  And learn how to trifold a bandsaw blade.

James


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## willray (Sep 10, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Now I wait for more phone calls, before seeing if I have a bad VFD, or a bad motor



If your electrical wizard has some motor start caps laying around, suggest that he isolate the motor and wire it up with an impromptu self-starting-static type "phase converter", just to see if it spins up.  Couple caps, some 10ga jumpers and some spade terminals would do it.  Walk that configuration around all 3 input legs on the motor to make sure that each is working properly.  Don't even bother trying to figure out how to make the start caps drop out, just don't let it run for more than a second to make sure that it spins.

Also - just in the name of sometimes it's the stupid stuff... I have, somewhere in vague memory, a recollection of a Chinese POS VFD that ran the front interface off of line-to-ground voltage (like some old ranges and dryers), rather than line-to-line voltage.  It's not possible that your 220V circuit to your VFD is half-tripped at the breaker box, is it?


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## awake (Sep 11, 2021)

willray said:


> If your electrical wizard has some motor start caps laying around, suggest that he isolate the motor and wire it up with an impromptu self-starting-static type "phase converter", just to see if it spins up.  Couple caps, some 10ga jumpers and some spade terminals would do it.  Walk that configuration around all 3 input legs on the motor to make sure that each is working properly.  Don't even bother trying to figure out how to make the start caps drop out, just don't let it run for more than a second to make sure that it spins.
> 
> Also - just in the name of sometimes it's the stupid stuff... I have, somewhere in vague memory, a recollection of a Chinese POS VFD that ran the front interface off of line-to-ground voltage (like some old ranges and dryers), rather than line-to-line voltage.  It's not possible that your 220V circuit to your VFD is half-tripped at the breaker box, is it?



I had a similar thought, but even more basic - before I built my RPC, I tested a lot of 3-phase motors simply by wiring up two legs on a switch, putting a rope on a pulley and spinning the motor, then hitting the switch. Crude, but cheap, and generally pretty easy. You do sometimes have to reverse the direction of the start-up spin ...

But I think it is time to make the offer that I keep making, that no one ever seems to take me up on: if you will ship everything to me, I will gladly check it out and get it all working, then ship it back. No cost to you except for paying for the shipping (which should be minor, right??). But I have to mention that it may take me several years before I have a chance to get it packed up and sent back to you. Not that I'll be using it during that time. Certainly not. But of course, out of a sense of responsibility I will need to test it periodically. If it so happens that I use some of my projects to conduct the testing, that is merely coincidental ...


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 13, 2021)

Today my electrical wizard showed up, but this time he brought with him the three phase motor from his bandsaw. He hooked it up to my VFD, and it worked like a charm. This lead to farther examination of the motor on my bandsaw, and we discovered that it was absolutely "seized up"!!---This is really weird, because the saw ran at the place I bought it from, and it ran for about 15 seconds when we first hooked it up to the VFD at my place. I called the used machinery place in Toronto and told him what was happening, and asked if he had another 1 hp 1750 rpm 3-phase motor, and that if he did I would bring my motor down to Toronto and exchange it. He hummed and hawed a little and said that he wasn't sure, but he would look this afternoon and call me back. In the meantime, I'm going to try to find out what is involved in changing the bearings in the motor that came with the saw.


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## Gordon (Sep 13, 2021)

If you are going to change the motor anyway why not just change it for a 120 volt single phase and forget the VFD. A used 1 HP singled phase should not cost any more than what you paid for the VFD.


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## willray (Sep 13, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Today my electrical wizard showed up, but this time he brought with him the three phase motor from his bandsaw. He hooked it up to my VFD, and it worked like a charm. This lead to farther examination of the motor on my bandsaw, and we discovered that it was absolutely "seized up"!!



It would take an impressive bearing failure to go from running without making horrible noises, to completely seized instantly.  While that can't be ruled out, if it's not a TEFC or other sealed-unit motor, the first thing I'd look at would be for some bit of swarf that got dislodged during your move that made its way where it ought not, and has, for example, wedged between the rotor and stator.   Could be as easy as popping the end bells and blowing the thing out...


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 13, 2021)

I just checked with my local bearing supply house, and they have the bearings for my motor in stock for $12.75 each. I've watched a couple of Youtube videos on changing motor bearings, and it looks pretty darn simple. I will wait and see if the company I bought the used bandsaw from is going to replace the motor ---if they do I will drive to Toronto and exchange it. If they don't I will change the bearings on my current seized motor.---wilray---If you are right I will discover it when I disassemble the motor to get the old bearings off.


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## payner (Sep 13, 2021)

Brian . Do you know what bearing numbers you need , I have a fairly large supply of bearings .
Bill


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 13, 2021)

Talked to Canadian Bearings and the bearings are 1605 with rubber seals. Only $12.75 each.


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## payner (Sep 13, 2021)

I don't have any 1605's , sorry about that .
Bill


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 13, 2021)

This is turning into a very strange voyage. The motor was seized--I could not turn the pulley by hand. I just separated the three main segments of the motor, and the bearings are fine!! There are no score nor gouge marks on the stator nor on the windings. Everything in the motor is filthy dirty, like you would expect to see on an old used motor. I will blow all the dirt out with compressed air, then inspect and reassemble, watching for the motor shaft to start binding again.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 13, 2021)

Curiosity killed the cat.---I had to tear that motor down to it's four main components and see what in heck was going on. As I expected, it was very filthy inside full of dirt that's been collecting since 1960 when that model was built.---but---I seen nothing inside that motor that would explain why it was seized. I washed away all the dirt, blew everything dry, then greased the bearings and reassembled it. Now the shaft turns with no effort at all. I checked the stator and the field windings for damage, but there was none. I was going to wire the motor up and try it now, but I simply ran out of gas and had to quit for the day.---That happens when you're seventy five. Ah well, I'll give it hell tomorrow!!!


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## Ghosty (Sep 13, 2021)

Brian, it could just have been all the dirt that was in there, got knocked loose in the move and the little run you did was enough for it to lock up the motor, I have had it happen before in an old table saw I bought.
Cheers
Andrew


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## stragenmitsuko (Sep 14, 2021)

Indeed , most likely some piece of dirt got knocked loose during transport and acted as a wedge somehow and seized the motor . 
Brian I'm kinda surprised that a handy fellow like you at your age has never taken a motor apart .


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## trlvn (Sep 14, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Talked to Canadian Bearings and the bearings are 1605 with rubber seals. Only $12.75 each.


How are the bearings in the saw itself?  Any crunchiness when turning by hand?

Craig


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 14, 2021)

This is the first three phase motor I have dealt with. It is amazingly different inside, no commutator nor brushes. It came apart fine, though terribly dirty inside, and seized up tight.. It went back together very easily, and thoroughly cleaned and totally freed up. I seen nothing that would have made it seize up, and there were no broken fins nor score marks inside the engine.


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## payner (Sep 14, 2021)

Brian . I noticed a small oil cup on the intermediate shaft for the speed reducer directly above the motor , maybe see if there are any others in there that may need a drop of oil .
Bill


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 14, 2021)

Will do Bill. --- And we all lived happily ever after!! I tore the motor down, washed away 60 years of accumulated dirt, inspected everything, greased the bearings, and reassembled it. It runs like a race horse. I never did see anything that looked like it might have jambed in there. Motor is back on saw, and works beautifully. VFD is doing everything it was supposed to. HURRAY!!!


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## payner (Sep 14, 2021)

Brian . Way to go on your first 3 phase re and re , congratulations.
Bill


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## animal12 (Sep 14, 2021)

If you have anyone that has a bandsaw welder in your area , you should look into the price of a roll of blade . Alot of times a rool will cost you what you might pay for 3-5 made blades
animal


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## Ghosty (Sep 14, 2021)

Brian, It would have just been the dust, It would have balled up between the armature and stator, there is not much clearance between the two, it would have been disturbed when removing and in disassembly
Cheers
Andrew


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## propclock (Sep 15, 2021)

Yea! Love a happy ending! Thanks for sharing.


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## Courierdog (Sep 16, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Will do Bill. --- And we all lived happily ever after!! I tore the motor down, washed away 60 years of accumulated dirt, inspected everything, greased the bearings, and reassembled it. It runs like a race horse. I never did see anything that looked like it might have jambed in there. Motor is back on saw, and works beautifully. VFD is doing everything it was supposed to. HURRAY!!!


Brian: this is good news, enjoy your latest toy and pass on the '_*Cutting*_" Experience. Ha Ha Sounds like you struck Gold.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 17, 2021)

Yeahhhhh---I just cut my first piece of metal with my new bandsaw!!! Picked up a new blade at lunchtime, rushed home and installed it, and immediately grabbed a piece of mild steel and cut it. It works like a charm. I am so impressed.---Now I can sell my smaller, converted wood bandsaw that I added a jackshaft and a couple more pulleys to to slow the blade down for cutting metal for $200. It works really well, but you can't lean on the feed to heavily or the belt drive slips a little bit.


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## Courierdog (Sep 17, 2021)

Brian: Right one with the "Cutting" remarks. Such Great News for you.


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## payner (Sep 18, 2021)

Brian. Good job , I bet that was a fun experience.
Bill


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 18, 2021)

I have really big hands and fingers. The VFD for my bandsaw has a whole bunch of programing buttons on it that I never want to touch, as well as the on and off buttons, a dial to select saw speed, and a read out. Today I made a shield that covers up all of the buttons that are not on/off switches, and has a window in it for me to see the read out display, and left me access to the dial. Saw is working good, and I don't ever want to accidently press a button that changes anything in the programming.


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## Gordon (Sep 18, 2021)

Do you set the speed with the VFD or are just using the mechanical VS sheaves?


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 18, 2021)

Gordon--I don't know yet. I only want to access two speeds. One for cutting steel at 175 fpm blade speed, and one for cutting aluminum at 875 fpm blade speed. The red read out on the VFD is directly related to RPM, so I would like to set it from the VFD. I put new batteries in my hand held laser/tachometer to get a reading on what rpm the band wheels are turning at, but I can't get it to take a reading. Perhaps the band wheels are turning too slowly for it.


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## Gordon (Sep 18, 2021)

You should be able to put a mark on the blade and time it. The blade is 10 ft long so you can calculate the speed. I have put a remote rheostat and seperate switch on one I have on my lathe and mill.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 18, 2021)

That's a good idea, and I never thought of that. The blade is exactly 120" long. I have a hand held laser/tachometer but it's not working right. It's like everything else that runs on batteries and only gets used once or twice a year. Even with new batteries there is something screwy about it. I just checked on the price of the old style tachometers with a rubber contact wheel, and the prices they are listed at are way beyond what I would pay for something so seldom used. I think my wife has a stop watch, so maybe a mark on the blade and a stop watch will get me to where  want.


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## Gordon (Sep 18, 2021)

Just time something like 10 cycles and you will be close enough. Everything is proportional so once you know the speed at say 500 rpm you also know that it is twice that at 1000 rpm.


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## L98fiero (Sep 19, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> That's a good idea, and I never thought of that. The blade is exactly 120" long. I have a hand held laser/tachometer but it's not working right. It's like everything else that runs on batteries and only gets used once or twice a year. Even with new batteries there is something screwy about it. I just checked on the price of the old style tachometers with a rubber contact wheel, and the prices they are listed at are way beyond what I would pay for something so seldom used. I think my wife has a stop watch, so maybe a mark on the blade and a stop watch will get me to where  want.


If the tach uses reflective strips or light/dark variations just paint a ring of light/dark sections with 5, 10 or more divisions then divide the results by that number.


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## JLaning427 (Sep 19, 2021)

If you are up for an electrical adventure, most VFD's have the ability to switch between a couple (sometimes as many as 5 or 6) preset speeds.  You could set presets for 50 to 100 fpm (for tool steel), 175 fpm, and 875 fpm in low range.  

Does that saw have a hi / low transmission?   If so, you might want to figure out a good wood setting (~3000 fpm) too.  

Congrats on getting it running.  A bit of an adventure it was.

James


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 19, 2021)

Today was spent rearranging things in the garage and cleaning and rerouting air lines. I am going to sell my small metal cutting bandsaw and an enormous old power hacksaw that I made about 50 years ago when I was doing a lot of wrought iron railing, and my dewatering manifold for my air compressor. My machinists equipment has spilled over into my main garage to the point that I am taking flak from "She who parks her car in the garage". I'm tired tonight, but the garage is a lot cleaner and more organized.---Brian


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## Courierdog (Sep 20, 2021)

Yes! She who must be obeyed must also approve.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2021)

Yayyyyyy!!!--I sold my old wood-cutting bandsaw which I added a shaft and pulleys to so it would cut metal for $200, and last night I sold my 50 year old power hacksaw for $100. This frees up considerable room in my main garage (On the side where I used to park my hot-rod), and leaves lots of room on my wife's side of the garage to park her Honda. I have just had two weeks of not making anything, and I'm enjoying the break. I'm still doing a bit of machine design for an old customer, and right now that seems to be enough to fill up my time.---Brian


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## trlvn (Oct 28, 2021)

I wish I'd had an opportunity at the power hacksaw...if it was functional at all, $100 was a steal! The bandsaw at $200 was also a heck of a bargain.

Craig


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## MRA (Oct 29, 2021)

Hey Brian - how much slower did you run your old bandsaw, for metal?   
cheers
Mark


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## Dopy (Oct 29, 2021)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Yayyyyyy!!!--I sold my old wood-cutting bandsaw which I added a shaft and pulleys to so it would cut metal for $200, and last night I sold my 50 year old power hacksaw for $100. This frees up considerable room in my main garage (On the side where I used to park my hot-rod), and leaves lots of room on my wife's side of the garage to park her Honda. I have just had two weeks of not making anything, and I'm enjoying the break. I'm still doing a bit of machine design for an old customer, and right now that seems to be enough to fill up my time.---Brian


Hi.....i'm a newbee to this forum.  This is my first time writing..
I have a Craftex 601......and my spindle gets really hot after a few minuteß at high speed.....can only hold it for 2 seconds.
Any ideas??
Tony  (that much older and dumber Tony)


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## ShopShoe (Oct 29, 2021)

Brian,

I know you don't like electrical and electronic adventures, but does your VFD have the capability for adding remote buttons? If I was in your situation and had that ability I would probably add a remote control box with great big industrial buttons.

(File the above in the "check this out" file or the other round file as you see fit)

Posted with encouragement and best intentions,

--ShopShoe


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## payner (Oct 29, 2021)

Brian . Good job on freeing up some of that valuable floor space .
Bill


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## ajoeiam (Oct 29, 2021)

Dopy said:


> Hi.....i'm a newbee to this forum.  This is my first time writing..
> I have a Craftex 601......and my spindle gets really hot after a few minuteß at high speed.....can only hold it for 2 seconds.
> Any ideas??
> Tony  (that much older and dumber Tony)



I'd be checking my bearings for starters. 
Could be the electric motor overheating too but that I'd love for some input from some that are more into electric motors than I. 
IIRC 85 C is a max for electric motor internal temperatures before degredation starts. 
I think I'd want it lower than 70 C myself. 
My hands may be desensitized from grabbing far too many hot pieces but I can handle 70 C for more than 2 seconds.


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## ajoeiam (Oct 29, 2021)

payner said:


> Brian . Good job on freeing up some of that valuable floor space .
> Bill





ajoeiam said:


> I'd be checking my bearings for starters.
> Could be the electric motor overheating too but that I'd love for some input from some that are more into electric motors than I.
> IIRC 85 C is a max for electric motor internal temperatures before degredation starts.
> I think I'd want it lower than 70 C myself.
> My hands may be desensitized from grabbing far too many hot pieces but I can handle 70 C for more than 2 seconds.




A friend of mine has used some ingenious solutions to mazimize his floor space. 
A lot of machines swivel so when not in use they are parallel to the wall - - - and swung out for use. 
So his smallish bandsaw (might be a 7 x 9) only takes some couple feet of floor space from the wall when not in use. 
His swivel is bolted to the wall and is very easy to use. 
Some tools are a lot more difficult to shrink the footprint on (lathes, mills and the like!) especially when they need to be accurately leveled. 

HTH


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2021)

MRA---150 foot per minute blade speed.


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