# EMCO Compact 5 any good?



## Pete92 (Sep 22, 2013)

Hello,
Is this machine any good for turning mainly brass and mild steel. And can it be converted to run from a laptop? 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190903191045&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
Cheers,
Pete


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 22, 2013)

From what i understand these are fien machines.



> And can it be converted to run from a laptop?



The question here is the condition of the original controller and programming. 

There seems to be a debate and often differing opinions on how much of the original contrals can and should be kept in tact.  Some prefer the vintage original controls other wish to modernize the controls and run from a pc or laptop.

To run completely from a lap top you will need a control program say mach 3 .
$175  and a smooth stepper motion cotroller eithernet version IIRC $200 and a controller  G540 $299  and a power supply about $50. 

So to run from a modern lap top you pretty much need to bypass the original controls. 


It may be possible to write g code on a laptop and transfer to the original controller. via a cable do not know.

Tin


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## DICKEYBIRD (Sep 22, 2013)

Check this out.  http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/th...-interface-with-linuxcnc-(no-interface-mods-)  You'd have to be very fluent in Linux to do it this way but it's certainly the least expensive route.  Cool stuff!


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## Pete92 (Sep 23, 2013)

Thanks for the advice guys. The machine is now mine. Im picking it up on wednesday! 
Does anywhere produce a small auto tool changer that i could fit to it?

Cheers,

Pete


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## rcfreak177 (Sep 23, 2013)

Sure do.

 That specific machine has an Auto Tool Changer as an option when purchased new, keep an eye out on Ebay and you might be lucky enough to find one. they do tend to go quick when they pop up and generally go for around $500USD





I am sure you will be happy with the performance of the machine. I have an Emco 120P which is a bit bigger than the compact 5. Must be the best small cnc lathe I have ever used as far as being rigid and accurate.

Good luck and be sure to post a video one you have it all up and running,

Edit: By the way I did see a question of whether the tape deck works or not on the Ebay listing.
If you should find it does not I have a working unit and also 6 new tapes to suit if you need them
they are fairly hard to get. Feel free to PM me if you want them at any stage.

Baz.


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## dman (Sep 23, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> From what i understand these are fien machines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you often dont need external hardware with linuxcnc like you do with mach. depends on the motherboard. also there are many motherboards that are in the $80 range with built in cpu like the atom series and amd apu that can run on a low power, inexpensive pico psu, have ample power and have built in parallel ports or headers. the g540 is a great option. i agree with that. but you can also build up some linisteppers from kits on a machine that small. the hal on linux cnc might take a bit to figure out but you don't need to be linux fluent. linux installs easier than windows and the gui is strait forward, it's not linux that makes linux cnc difficult! you don't need to know shell commands or navigate the file tree structure to set it up. the hal is a part of linux cnc and you will need to do a lot of reading for that. you may be able to find a hal for the stock stepper drivers, or a common stepper driver such as a g540 though....

laptops are not linux cnc friendly... there is an alernative... it costs $80 (you still still may need a gecko drive or a couple linisteppers if the existing drives are weird.) it runs on any of the popular OS's, windows, linux,, mac, bsd, whatever... it's called RTstepper. and it's the path i'd recommend for a beginner that wants a SIMPLE modern control but it wont control the tool changer as far as i know. RTstepper is just the most basic features and is derived from linux cnc but replaces the complicated but flexible bits that make it so adaptable with a simple pre setup hardware device that works over usb and outputs parllel. it's literally the easiest way to modernize the machine, but you wont find as much support as for mach. it's not nearly as popular. 

as far as using the stock computer but losing the tape drive and feeding it with a laptop... well if it's a standard parallel or serial port you may be able to do that. i'm not that savy on old computers but i seem to remember there being a way to print out text files as the recieving computer needs them. i don't know if the lathe has internal memory that the program gets uploaded to in advance or if it reads small sections of tape as things run but either way it should be "possible" if you get some pictures of the port and any info on the communication protocol..  this might be doable through some simple command prompt on a windows machine (just like running DOS) as well as anything that runs a terminal shell (linux, mac, bsd)

linistepper (cheap and QUIET and not as fragile as things from china)
http://www.piclist.com/techref/io/stepper/linistep/LiniV2_bld.htm

more pricey but totally worth it as they are indestructable
http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives/g540.html

rt stepper (easy!!! and cheap, runs on any existing computer you may have laying around, even a raspberry pi!)
http://www.ecklersoft.com/

linux cnc (harder but completely free)
http://www.linuxcnc.org/

edit: i just want to emphisize you don't need linux fluentcy for linux cnc, but you need to learn about the software itself. it's not entirely plug and play but it looks like there is a good link above on this. i don't know if rtstepper or mach can do the 4-phase drive, so they will obviously be a bigger investment, but i think it would be easy to program an arduino or pic of some kind to convert quadrature or step/direction over to 4 phase which could save some money over a drive replacement.


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## xpylonracer (Sep 23, 2013)

If the original control system is working OK you will find MFI editor program helpful, it is a free code editor that suits the Emco machines and is available at http://www.mikesfreeinterface.com/
If your machine doesn't have an RS232 socket at the rear then you will not be able to link to a computer for downloading/uploading programs. Even in this case you will find MFI useful for writing and simulating programs to check axis movements before cutting metal.
Join the Yahoo Group "Emco lathes", information in the files section on upgrading the original control panel to provide remote computer control.
Rgds, Emgee


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## Pete92 (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks for all the help. Ill will get some photos up of it tomorrow. I dont know if it has the RS232 connection on the back yet. 

How would I be able to check if the tape deck works or not? 

May sound a stupid question. But how hard is it to build a ATC and fit it to the machine?

Cheers,

Pete


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 24, 2013)

> Thanks for all the help. Ill will get some photos up of it tomorrow. I dont know if it has the RS232 connection on the back yet.




Its likely rs 232 is a common protocall.




> How would I be able to check if the tape deck works or not?



program in some simple G code and see if the machine will run it. 



> May sound a stupid question. But how hard is it to build a ATC and fit it to the machine?



Not a stupid question at all. There is a step by step thread  on how to build on on this forum. fairly involved machining and requires an stepper motor to run. but a pallet style tool holder is fairly easy. no motor or programming just tool offsets. 
Tin


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## caddy (Sep 24, 2013)

Emco PC 5
FWIW, I have an old laptop computer that has the original PC 5 software in it. If any one is interested, please reply. I don't want a ton of money for it, just what I have in it.


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## dman (Sep 24, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> Its likely rs 232 is a common protocall.
> 
> Not a stupid question at all. There is a step by step thread  on how to build on on this forum. fairly involved machining and requires an stepper motor to run. but a pallet style tool holder is fairly easy. no motor or programming just tool offsets.
> Tin



yeah tool changers are over rated. i ran omni turn lathes at one place and they had a vertical gang tables. much easier to program and faster cycle times by far. they are especially useful for short part lengths were tool stickout can be the same as the part length and they are all equal in length. you can use all boring tools and turn with the boring tool by reversing the spindle rotation or having both left and right handed tools. the only real disadvantage is that if you need to support the part with the tailstock you are probably limited to just 2 tools.


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## Pete92 (Sep 25, 2013)

Well I had a nice run over to the lakes this afternoon. Here are a few pictures. 

I cannot see an RS232 connector on it anywhere? 

It all seems to run okay. Its programmed in incremental coordinates. Is there anyway of programming in Absoutle? And how are tool offsets inputted? 

I could do with a Programming manual for this. Does anyone know where I can get hold of one? 

Cheers,

Pete


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## skyline1 (Sep 25, 2013)

Hi Pete

It's a pity I'm too far away from you in Gloucestershire 

Picking up an EMCO 5 for  600 quid is a real bargain !

It seems all the servos work  if you can move the x and z axis 

I am not a CNC man But I do have a good deal of experience with Control systems and have done CNC retrofits on the past (long time ago though )

It is possible to retrofit your machine with a new controller as Tin suggests but I would need at least a manual or details of the stepper motors and drivers to advise further

If the motor drives are separate from the controller, as in large CNC machines, it is fairly easy to do so by using a small P.C. a breakout unit, and suitable software, such as MACH3 again along the lines Tin suggests.

If however the motor controls are integrated within the main controller it is much more difficult,

I do not know the electrical details of this particular machine so please P.M. me with any drawings you may have, I will try to assist you as best I can

G28 is return to home on Fanucs

switching between absolute and relative I can't remember one of the CNC chaps will be able to help 
Regards Mark


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## Pete92 (Sep 25, 2013)

I ran a short program in it earlier and it seemed to be moving fine. Though incremental programming takes a bit of getting used to. 

I think for feasibility of use it has to be 'modernised'. But I don't exactly know where to start. So any advise on that would be great. 

I found this thread: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...s-80-rebuild-emco-compact-5-cnc-lathe-193493/

The only bit im not keen on is the state of the control board when its finished. But it shows the control panels inside the machine for your reference Mark.

Cheers,

Pete


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## dman (Sep 25, 2013)

Pete92 said:


> I ran a short program in it earlier and it seemed to be moving fine. Though incremental programming takes a bit of getting used to.
> 
> I think for feasibility of use it has to be 'modernised'. But I don't exactly know where to start. So any advise on that would be great.
> 
> ...



normally g-90 for absolute g91 for incremental but i don't know if it follows that standard

as far as modernizing the macine, linux cnc, although not user friendly in the aspect of setting up the HAL is capable of running the stock stepper boards. check dickybirds post on the first page. if following a tutorial and playing with a text editor sounds like things you can do then a $150 purpose built PC and maybe an optically coupled breakout board for circuit protection might be all you need. (not all over the counter PC's are suitable for linux cnc. you need a parallel port with a suitable control chip but there are many $60-$80 motherboard+cpus that work. but if you have a free pci slot you can get a $70 mesa fpga i/o card instead.. the mesa card is actually the best route).

as far as "easier" solutions. replacing the stepper boards and using RTstepper or the more popular Mach 3. are options.


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 25, 2013)

you should be able to switch from absolute to incremental with g code  
the same thing using MM or inch mode some of the g codes are modal and act as switches. 
Tin


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## RonGinger (Sep 25, 2013)

I converted an EMCO 5 to run mach3 a couple years ago. The stepper motors are a strange hybrid type and will not run with a regular stepper driver. They are also very wimpy. I replaced the motors and threw out everything electronic. Actually I sold a few of the boards and parts on ebay.

Mine had a tool changer. It was operated by a DC motor that turned the holder until a ratchet dropped in, then is reversed at a low power and backed up until the ratchet locked up. The motor then just stalled with the power on but reduced to a low value. I removed that motor and used a stepper. 

In the end I found it to  small to use even for model parts so I sold it. There is a ready market for them, guys do seem to like them


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