# Whats up with HMEM?



## stevehuckss396 (Dec 30, 2013)

If you click to go to the home page there is a flood of information about alternative energy and free energy devices. This is supposed to be a forum for people who want to build engines. If I were to find the home page before knowing what goes on around here I would leave and never look back. Is that where this forum is heading? Whats the rub?


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 30, 2013)

I see what you mean. I agree it is not the focus here . It appears someone submitted a bunch of articles about an off topic subject.
Maybe Austin can shed some light on the subject. 
Tin


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## canadianhorsepower (Dec 30, 2013)

> I see what you mean. I agree it is not the focus here . It appears someone submitted a bunch of articles  *AND MONEY* about an off topic subject.
> Maybe Austin can shed some light on the subject.
> Tin


 that would be nice


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## John Rus (Dec 30, 2013)

Indeed, I would like some of those articles to be removed.

John.


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## Till (Dec 31, 2013)

This is annoying, dispels new members and will ruin the community sooner or later.


 Please remove this *article* from the main page.


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## charlesfitton (Dec 31, 2013)

It's not real?

 I'm shocked...


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## ShopShoe (Dec 31, 2013)

Swifty posted 12-16-2013:

"What's happened to the project of the month, we haven't had a new one since 3rd of October."

Paul.

--

Austin posted 12-18-2013:

"Dropped the ball, sorry about that. 

We will be changing format in the new year. We have gone through a few revisions, but I would like a more community oriented one."

--

The thread was "No new project" here in The Break Room.

--

Seems I am not alone in my concern. "... a more community oriented..."  Great Buzzwords. What is the "community?" I think it is home machining and hobby engine making and modeling and topics related to those things, although I would not argue against most posts I have seen here, even if off-topic.

If HMEM is being re-molded and re-branded to fit into a concept of a community that is too far afield from hobby machining and learning about the tools and techniques that support it I am afraid that more of us will move on.

All in all, we have a great bunch of members here and one of the best mentoring groups online. Thanks to the great work of all the Moderators who have kept the the spirit of courtesy alive here and  thanks that we don't have too much of the OT ranting and blatant personal-agenda-pushing that we see elsewhere. No one likes to be flamed and I am glad that that is kept to a minimum.

I have been especially grateful that some of the most truly skilled members here have been genuinely helpful to those of us who are
attempting to learn and become better, even if it seems to take forever.

I understand the need to pay the bills and that most media nowadays needs to create an audience to deliver to the advertiser in exchange for revenue.

Rant off. No offense meant but concern to be noted.

In friendly spirit of cooperation as far as I can attempt. Best wishes for the new year. 

--ShopShoe


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## Philipintexas (Dec 31, 2013)

It's like everything on the internet, sooner or later it devolves into advertising $$.


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## Niels Abildgaard (Dec 31, 2013)

Where?

and a happy new Year to all


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## stevehuckss396 (Dec 31, 2013)

Niels Abildgaard said:


> Where?
> 
> and a happy new Year to all



Home page

Click home instead of forum.


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## Sshire (Dec 31, 2013)

Caution: Rant follows

I agree that the forum has changed. When I started this hobby 2 ½ years ago, HMEM was my school.
I asked a LOT of newbie questions and was always given an answer without making me feel like an idiot.  If I followed a build and didnt understand the setup, the technique or the tooling - I asked and was answered.

The change that I see is not in the answers. Any question here usually gets a good, informative response. The change is that very few questions are asked. Either everyone has so much experience that they know everything or only a very, very small percentage of the people here are actually building (or have ever built) an engine.

It seems that the largest number of questions were previously about Works in Progress. 
Chuck Fellowes latest build  has had over 7,000 views and only 47 responses. I havent looked, but Im sure that many arent questions, but rather in the Nice part, Chuck category.
River Gypsy has a great engine in current work in progress with nearly 11,000 views and only 56 replies. PhilJoes new build? over 12,000 views and a whopping 141 replies.

I believe that this is one of the reasons that John Moore (Bogstandard), who taught many of us how to do so much of what we do with small engines, left the group to start MEM. There are many more who have abandoned ship.

I agree that if I were a new person, who was interested in what we do and happened on the current home page, Id move on without digging deeper.

I know that business is business, but the HMEM business is based on free content from members who willingly do so to help less-experienced folks. Doing a build thread with pictures takes a lot of time that could be used in the shop, with family or whatever. The business is built on our effort.

Personally, I hate the homepage. If I needed to gasify something or go solar, Id find a forum for those issues. This is NOT how we should be presented and if some things dont change, Ill probably go the way of Bogs.

End Of Rant


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## RonGinger (Dec 31, 2013)

Use Firefox with the ad-blocker addon. I dont see any ads on any page.


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## stevehuckss396 (Dec 31, 2013)

RonGinger said:


> Use Firefox with the ad-blocker addon. I dont see any ads on any page.




Hello Ron! 

It's not ads. It's actual content on the home page. It's not my forum so I have no say in what it contains. I was just asking so I could find out if that is the direction the forum is going. I hear rumor that there will be some changes made for the new year and wonder if this is just the start of that. Will the forum focus on model engines or will it expand to include builds of any kind.


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## t.l.a.r. eng (Dec 31, 2013)

I almost left after the last water down changes took effect, seems we lost a lot of the more advanced engine guys.

 I agree with stevehucks396, if we blend in non "engine" builds, looses the fabric of what this sight was about. :fan:


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## Nerdz (Dec 31, 2013)

As a new member, I'd really hate to see this forum go down the tube. Its happened elsewhere on the net (Im a former member of a really well known PC modding/Tweaking forum) and would hate to see such a knowledge base lost. 

If alt energy is where this is going, why not make a sister site and leave this site alone?


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## Kaleb (Dec 31, 2013)

To be fair to these articles, all but the most recent of them are ideas that are perfectly sound, at least in theory.


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## stevehuckss396 (Dec 31, 2013)

Kaleb said:


> To be fair to these articles, all but the most recent of them are ideas that are perfectly sound, at least in theory.




This is true but the sign does say "A worldwide hobby community dedicated to machinist built model engines".


Look, I don't care one way or the other. Like I said before, It's not my forum. But there are signs of change and rumors of things to come. I brought this up because I just wanted to know what's going on. Just wondering.


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## John Rus (Dec 31, 2013)

Nerdz said:


> If alt energy is where this is going, why not make a sister site and leave this site alone?


 
Well for one I don't think that's going to happen and I don't want that to happen else the knoledge base of people will be lost due to comepletely different interests. I'm sure there are more apropriate forums out there to post alternitave energy and if not make one, no need to post this kind of stuff on a hobby forum.

We aren't interested in wind mill's or magnet motors for powering your house, we are interested in completely non-usefull, time gobeling, noisy, smelly, oily, small, finiky at times, unreiable at times, MODEL ENGINES and things DIRECTELY related to the subject. I still can't beleive some people don't get that....:shrug:

Oh well back to the drawing board,
John.


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## stevehuckss396 (Dec 31, 2013)

John Rus said:


> finiky at times, unreliable at times,




Only when there is a lot of people watching.


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## idahoan (Dec 31, 2013)

Would be interesting to see what Austin has to say; I thought he was the one picking these articles although I also agree that they don't belong here.

Dave


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## dreeves (Dec 31, 2013)

I find it funny that Austin has not said a word yet 2 pages of posts. I would think he would be more active with comments

Dave


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## Rivergypsy (Jan 1, 2014)

Sshire - many thanks for your kind comments, and to be honest both I and others have thought the same thing. MEM here we go, perhaps...


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## Rivergypsy (Jan 1, 2014)

Sshire - many thanks for your kind comments, and to be honest both I and others have thought the same thing. MEM here we go, perhaps...


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## doc1955 (Jan 1, 2014)

That is the reason I keep my posting here to a minimum. Back when I first joined this site was great but after the change I seen what was on the horizon and didn't like what I seen. I post my builds on other sites now where things are more to the hobby that brought us all together in the first place.


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## kd0afk (Jan 1, 2014)

I use hmem on mobile and when I get a notification of a new post to a subscribed thread I click on it and it NEVER goes straight to the new post. It takes me to the home screen.


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## kuhncw (Jan 1, 2014)

I never see the homepage as the icon I put on my screen takes me straight to the forum, so I missed the alternative energy posts.   All the posts are by one fellow, last time I looked.  I suspect Austin will catch up with this and they will be soon gone.  I doubt this is a trend or a change in HMEM.  Austin has probably been busy with the holidays.

I enjoy this group a lot and feel a lot of good information is passed back and forth on engines, machine tools, and tooling.  There are some great builds going on and I see quite a few questions pop up.  

Regards,

Chuck


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## Swifty (Jan 1, 2014)

I did a google search on Benjamin Roussey, the author of the offending articles. He seems to be a serial article poster, there were other forums that he has flooded with articles, he appears to be a writer that wants to get his name in print.

Where are you Austin? The site will be flooded with these articles soon.

Paul.


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## terrywerm (Jan 1, 2014)

I always thought that a submitted article had to be approved before it appeared on the home page or in the articles section. If that is correct, then Austin has already approved the alternative energy articles. If that is the case I wish to officially voice my disapproval.


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## idahoan (Jan 1, 2014)

I was quite honored when my build showed up on the home page; but now I guess all one has to do is spam the site with a bunch of unrelated crap to get there! I was under the impression that these articles or posts were selected by a person who had a clue; I guess that is not the case.

Dave


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## ozzie46 (Jan 2, 2014)

Add me to the disgusted and disapproval list. This is not model engine building.

 Ron


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## rythmnbls (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm in agreement with whats been said, the articles are off topic for this forum, they also lack content and detail. I don't understand their presence at all.

Steve.


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## RonGinger (Jan 2, 2014)

I think some of you need to lighten up a bit. This is just like the flame war that almost killed this site a couple years ago.

First, no one has to read the home page- I didn't even know it was there until this thread started. I have a bookmark to the forum page and go there directly. If you don't like the home page threads just don't read them.

Second this group has two parts to its name- model engine is one, but home machinist is the other. There are guys here that build things that are not model engines. One of my best model friends also built a wind turbine for his home. Brians marble machine and sawmill are not engines but sure were good topics to follow. Chucks Arduino rotary table and CNC conversion are not engines either. We have lots of interests and ability to build interesting things beside model engines.

I really would hate to see this evolve like the one that split this group a year or so ago. In my view both this group and the spin off are weaker than the whole was before it. Relax, take a deep breath and read a topic you enjoy, there are many here to choose from.


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## ozzie46 (Jan 2, 2014)

Sorry Ron, we will have agree to disagree on this.

Ron


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## Till (Jan 2, 2014)

The article promoting dubious plans for a perpetuum mobile was removed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I don't mind articles about wind turbines or biomass gasification.


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## BaronJ (Jan 2, 2014)

Till said:


> The article promoting dubious plans for a perpetuum mobile was removed.



Its about time !


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## Swifty (Jan 2, 2014)

The latest article about a tin can sterling engine has been directly copied from another Internet site.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Tin-Can-Stirling-Engine/?ALLSTEPS

Paul.


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## Swifty (Jan 2, 2014)

Technical Articles & Write-Ups

Every article must be original and not posted anywhere else before or after submitting it here.

A few example topics of an article; product reviews, DIY and tutorials (starting flying, how do I _______?, building your own ______), industry news and events, competition reports. These are not suggestions for articles but rather to give you a feel for the category of articles we are looking for.

Article Requirements

1. Article must be on the subject of model engine machining.
2. Article has to be original and written by you.
3. Article must contain at least 3 high-resolution photographs.
4. Article must be a minimum of 500 words.

To submit your article create a new thread in the following forum:
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f50/

ANY ARTICLE AND IMAGES YOU SUBMIT THAT WE USE AND GIVE AN UPGRADED MEMBERSHIP FOR BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF HOMEMODELENGINEMACHINIST.COM.

We will evaluate and moderate the article if needed and if we choose to use it then it will go live in the Article forum.

If your Article goes live then you will receive a free one-year upgraded membership. More information here; 
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/payments.php


The above terms about submitting articles were written by Austin, the newer articles do not follow these rules. Over to you now Austin.

Paul.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 2, 2014)

Ok fellows, lets bring it down a notch. I'm not saying anything wrong is being done here and I also don't feel like complaining about anything because it's none of my business what Austin or the moderators do. The only reason I started this thread was to find out what the deal was and what the future of the forum is. If the future is to expand the forum into other areas that's what it will be. I was just wondering. I figured Austin would chime in with some insite and this thread would fade into nothing.

Let's all sit back, have a few frosty mug fulls and wait for the information or explanation before we assume the worst.

Deep breaths.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 2, 2014)

[quoteIf the future is to expand the forum into other areas that's what it will be. I was just wondering. I figured Austin would chime in with some insite and this thread would fade into nothing.
][/quote]
I agree with you 100% when someone post something with out a perfect or close to perfect introduction  all the moderators enjoy jumping on his head
and tell him to introduce himself and we all kind of agree it's the introduction to this group.
Now we have a lonesome person dumping **** on this cite and no one from the administration says anything .....................where are you
we had that dumm twit sharing all kind of ****( sory for my slang ) anf he was kick out in 24 hrs and now it's ok come on this is unreal
Steve you did the proper thing wondering what was going on with a forum that you like......................sad to see that administration are not looking at it with the same point of view!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jwcnc1911 (Jan 2, 2014)

For the most part I have noticed much more "clutter" lately.

At this point in this thread I find it unusual that Austin has not chimed in.


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## terrywerm (Jan 2, 2014)

A little bit of quick research on Mr. Roussey shows that he is a young fellow that is trying to develop his professional writing career. I've got a $10 bill in my pocket that says that he posted here only to claim that it is a site where he has been published. If anyone checks out his claim, the articles are here to back it up. If one reads the articles carefully, however, it is quickly evident that there are many spelling and grammar mistakes present, and it becomes obvious that Mr Roussey is not a very good writer to begin with. When one considers that he plagiarized most (if not all) of his articles, it becomes obvious why he cannot obtain the employment he desires as a writer.

So, for the most part, his articles are not about engines, nor are they about hobby machining or hobbies or machining of any kind for that matter. As Swifty pointed out, his article about the Tin Can Stirling engine was copied directly from the Instructables site, and then only in part, rendering the article useless. Same thing for the wind turbine article. I am intimately familiar with the steps and processes involved with building that particular turbine, and that article is also incomplete and worthless in the manner in which it is posted here. It is my opinion that this fellow is simply using space here to promote his career. That is what sites like LinkIn and Monster are for, but not this one. 

I don't offer much here in the way of articles or posts, but when I do have something to post here, it is my own material and is also directly relevant to the subject matter that is the basis for this forum. Forum administrators allowing someone to post stolen articles here while claiming them as his own is just as wrong as stealing them to begin with. 

Rant off.


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## terrywerm (Jan 2, 2014)

Take a look at this link: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/write-for-us/

It may explain what brought Mr. Roussey here in the first place.


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## BaronJ (Jan 3, 2014)

Hi Guys,

I've not been around here too long, so let me express my feelings !  
When I joined I was asked to agree to a set of rules.  I'm sure that we all were !   That set of rules I expect to apply to all.  Without doubt those rules have been breached and as members of these forums we surely have the right to expect that the moderators enforce these rules in a fair and just manner.  If those rules have changed or been modified then the membership should be informed as a matter of course.

As far as the perpetual motion/over unity scam is concerned most if not all the members of these forums wouldn't fall for it.  But it lowers the integrity of the forum by allowing it, the forum, to be used in this way.


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## Swifty (Jan 3, 2014)

I checked other forums that Bemjamin Roussey posts articles on, these include forums on biplanes, keeping chickens, goats and wine making. He seems to be an expert in all manner of things, funny enough, all the other forums use the same layout as HMEM, perhaps they are all owned by the same group.

Paul.


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## Admin (Jan 3, 2014)

dreeves said:


> I find it funny that Austin has not said a word yet 2 pages of posts. I would think he would be more active with comments
> 
> Dave





Swifty said:


> I did a google search on Benjamin Roussey, the author of the offending articles. He seems to be a serial article poster, there were other forums that he has flooded with articles, he appears to be a writer that wants to get his name in print.
> 
> Where are you Austin? The site will be flooded with these articles soon.
> 
> Paul.





idahoan said:


> I was quite honored when my build showed up on the home page; but now I guess all one has to do is spam the site with a bunch of unrelated crap to get there! I was under the impression that these articles or posts were selected by a person who had a clue; I guess that is not the case.
> 
> Dave





terrywerm said:


> Take a look at this link: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/write-for-us/
> 
> It may explain what brought Mr. Roussey here in the first place.



For the record I rarely find myself in off topic sections, that's the reason for my lack of response. 

Thanks you for bringing the article issue with Benjamin to my attention, it will be corrected. 

So here's the deal. For months now I have asked for members to contribute to article writing. I've not gotten to many results. I think that as HMEM moves into the future articles are going to be one of the features that defines us, especially for newcomers. One of the issues outlined in this thread is that we are not seeing a ton of newcomers, and I think to promote the hobby to newcomers we need an easy intro so to speak. 

I brought in a team of writers to help jump start the program. If you see incorrect info please alert me to it. Sending me a pm or posting it in announcements and support would be the best option. 

Sorry again for being late to the thread.


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## Walltoddj (Jan 3, 2014)

Swifty said:


> Technical Articles & Write-Ups
> 
> Every article must be original and not posted anywhere else before or after submitting it here.
> 
> ...



I have a problem with the fact it can only be submitted here at which point you can't use it in other groups. I have my own prints and photos of a Vari-drive conversion for a Bridgeport mill but I won't put it here alone I have other groups that it maybe useful to as well as a mag Model Engine Builders. So now everybody misses out on something they may want to use. So you may want to rethink this??
Todd


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## Admin (Jan 3, 2014)

It has to be that way or we get penalized from Google as does the other site you post it to. The almighty google does not like duplicate content. 

To be clear, these writers are to help jump start the program. Them being here has already brought more attention to the feature than my months and months of promotion.


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## Walltoddj (Jan 3, 2014)

Austin said:


> It has to be that way or we get penalized from Google as does the other site you post it to. The almighty google does not like duplicate content.
> 
> To be clear, these writers are to help jump start the program. Them being here has already brought more attention to the feature than my months and months of promotion.



I don't buy that I've goggle a lot of things and found more than one of them, heck how do you think I found you!!! People join this groups for the knowledge not all people think the same and you can learn a lot from others as well as they can from you, that's why most of us are in multiple sites and groups to learn!


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## Swifty (Jan 3, 2014)

Austin, I'm fine with bringing in writers, but I feel that they should have some degree of knowledge about the subject they are writing about. One of the articles was almost a direct copy from another on the net, I'm not on a witch hunt, but Benjamin Roussey has written articles about the following,
Home Improvments,
RC aircraft,
Finance,
Gaming,
Survival,
Tech Resources,
Smart phone tips,
Children's health,
Pigs,
Goats,
Beer,
Wine,
Biplanes

I gave up looking after that. He is without doubt a well educated man, but it cannot be possible to be proficient in all these articles he writes about. To post articles about model engines and associated items, a bit of experience in the field is necessary.

I have a few ideas for more articles and will endeavour to get moving on them. Where are all you other budding writers, there must be others on this forum who can put a few words together and post an article.

Paul


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## Philjoe5 (Jan 3, 2014)

I find it interesting that "team of writers" are needed to attract newcomers.  Most of the 15000+ members joined this group because a bunch of writers of every skill level described in often elegant detail how they were making parts for engines, or showed engines they made, or tools of general interest.

The key is - the doers were active here.  

Bring in a team of writers who haven't used a lathe, milling machine or haven't made an engine and :toilet:

I've seen this episode unfold so often in my working life it seems inevitable it will happen here.  That's really sad

Phil


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## Admin (Jan 3, 2014)

Walltoddj said:


> I don't buy that I've goggle a lot of things and found more than one of them, heck how do you think I found you!!! People join this groups for the knowledge not all people think the same and you can learn a lot from others as well as they can from you, that's why most of us are in multiple sites and groups to learn!



Of course, piracy is rampant, but it does affect the value to search engines as it causes a conflict in ranking it. 

It's something to be seen from the eyes of a programmer. 



Swifty said:


> Austin, I'm fine with bringing in writers, but I feel that they should have some degree of knowledge about the subject they are writing about. One of the articles was almost a direct copy from another on the net, I'm not on a witch hunt, but Benjamin Roussey has written articles about the following,
> Home Improvments,
> RC aircraft,
> Finance,
> ...



He has been stopped. I won't stand for plagiarism.

Know how hard it is to find qualified writers? There's you guys, and you guys. I mean really, the amount of time and attention, knowledge, practice and theory is all here, and all in you, and I just want a way to introduce it to new members coming on and trying to figure out how to get started.

Send me an article Paul. I would be happy to publish it and I'm sure it will be ages ahead of anything a professional writer will provide.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 3, 2014)

> I have a few ideas for more articles and will endeavour to get moving on them. Where are all you other budding writers, there must be others on this forum who can put a few words together and post an article.


 
 Hi Paul 
 I would like to do some articles but I don't think that as writers we would be protected to opinions that 
 would simply get me all fired up
 Some time a simple difference in opinion are experience did cause a few good arguments on this site
 and no I'm not in for that kind of stuff or auguments.....
 But all I can say is what I post is 100% real with the experience I had doing that kind of stuff and not trying
 to impress anyone or side track anyone.
 I personaly think that with 51 certificate 5 diplomas 10 years at the university  and 1 millions of experiment
 gives me a good back ground to write a article.
 but putting my head on a block of wood........... no thanks
 If writers would be protected to piss poor comment fine.... like when you buy a book do you write the author
 back saying you dont agree...NO the same thing should happen here
 and thats my 2 cents 
 AND I STICK TO IT:fan:
 cheers


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## barnesrickw (Jan 3, 2014)

If you break down an informative article or book, the smallest section is usually the hypothesis, or opinion.  After that comes attempts to pre-answer criticism of the readers by submitting your data, etc.  In a peer reviewed paper, the next step is to have your work scrutinized, harshly. While in college, I had to write and present many of these on the subject go Geology.  The panel of professors enjoyed ripping the work of students to shreds.  So I understand Paul's point all too well, but understand it's also part of the process.  Good part here is no failing grade after.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 3, 2014)

Every article must be original and not posted anywhere else before or after submitting it here.

ANY ARTICLE AND IMAGES YOU SUBMIT THAT WE USE AND GIVE AN UPGRADED MEMBERSHIP FOR BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF HOMEMODELENGINEMACHINIST.COM.


I think this is the problem right here Austin. There is a lot of work involved in writing a good article. Think about it from the model builders point of view. Why would I go through all that trouble just to give it away. If i'm going to do all that work It will be with the intention of helping others build models. With that in mind, I would want to spread it around to all the forums I visit to give the best chance of it getting found. Given the choice I think I would prefer to post it on 3 or 4 forums and not here than to post it here and nowhere else. That way nobody owns it and it can keep spreading. I think qualified people might be shying away because they don't want the work to be exclusive to here. We are a group that believes that knowledge should be shared freely in the spirit that we all achieve the same goals, running engines. That group extends far beyond HMEM.


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## Walltoddj (Jan 3, 2014)

stevehuckss396 said:


> Every article must be original and not posted anywhere else before or after submitting it here.
> 
> ANY ARTICLE AND IMAGES YOU SUBMIT THAT WE USE AND GIVE AN UPGRADED MEMBERSHIP FOR BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF HOMEMODELENGINEMACHINIST.COM.
> 
> ...



Thanks I think you understand what I'm saying if I did it's to help others if not why waste the time and energy to photo, draw, and write about what you did??


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## Admin (Jan 3, 2014)

stevehuckss396 said:


> Every article must be original and not posted anywhere else before or after submitting it here.
> 
> ANY ARTICLE AND IMAGES YOU SUBMIT THAT WE USE AND GIVE AN UPGRADED MEMBERSHIP FOR BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF HOMEMODELENGINEMACHINIST.COM.
> 
> ...



I do understand this group and the knowledge extends far beyond HMEM, and I too agree knowledge should be accessed freely, that's why HMEM is free. 

If you don't want to write under the current circumstances, what circumstances would you write under? 

I appreciate the dialogue on this. I've been trying for many months to get you guys interested and I've had few takers. The articles from Brian and Swifty are superb. Here they are in case anyone missed them.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/entries/cutting-mitre-gears.html

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/entries/Grandpa-Lights-the-Woodstove.html

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/entries/Ghosts-in-the-Forest-Steam-Engine-Tales.html


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## gmac (Jan 3, 2014)

Austin;
I can only speak as a newbie to this machining/model engineering HOBBY, but I guess that makes me part of your target audience. I signed up for HMEM Version 1.0 NOT because it had/will have polished, well written articles; but because it very obviously had many highly skilled machinists and modelers who were passionate about the hobby and very obviously wanted to help others learn and share the passion.

And they are here not to simply write about what they do - I've had people I didn't know send me tools, parts and knowledge free gratis - pure kindness, so it has very little to do with submitting articles.

This in no way should be seen to lessen the value of contributions that Steve and the many others here, have worked hard to document then generously SHARED. These types of people are my mentors. But it doesn't take only polished articles to make this site valuable (my kind of value at least), it's been many, many, many small bits of help and guidance from these big contributors and those sitting in the shadows who've PM'd quietly to help me.

When HMEM Version 2.0 was implemented I put it on a watch status and became less active. It used to be my main site for this hobby but that changed. As Steve has said, I too try to be active on many sites, and prefer those that are inhabited by those who share. When I started seeing what appeared to me to be a new form of advertising of material not related to this forum I was ready to pull the plug.

You may have been better off to have posted to the members with your concerns about the poor response to the request for written material, then outlined a plan to address it. The approach you used seems to have blindsided many and given the wrong impression.

This was a place to get help and see the artistry and craftsmanship of people who wanted to raise others who were passionate to the same level. I hope it remains so.

I realize you have a tough task with HMEM and hope you can keep it on target.

Cheers Garry


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 3, 2014)

Austin said:


> If you don't want to write under the current circumstances, what circumstances would you write under?
> [/url]



That my work remains mine. If you need to own it for me to post it then I most likely won't post it. You can host it with my permission but you can't own it.


This one is in the download bin. I doubt any of the new guy's know it's there but it cannot be used because it was posted on 2 other sites. Good material about the hobby bumped for a free energy device. This one could actually help someone build a model engine. 

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/downloads/files/Offset_turning_the_camshaft.pdf


It's not hard to understand why the actual builder on this site are not getting that warm fuzzy feeling.


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## Swifty (Jan 4, 2014)

Austin, I'm as keen as you to see this site go from strength to strength, but with the stipulation that any articles remain the property of HMEM is a bit of a put off. Why do we need an article section when we already have a download section without these restrictions. 

Luc, I see what you mean about being criticised on any article that you submit. The problem is that the article may be your interpretation of how to do things, but not to everyone's liking. This means that the articles would have to be fairly soft in their content, or just an article of basic interest. 

As an example only, you cannot say that coil and point ignition is the only way to do things and that electronic ignition is rubbish, you will get so many people argue against this. It may be best to say that you prefer coil and point ignition over electronic.

You have obviously had a very good education, there must be some articles in you somewhere that you can share, I failed high school, only have 3 certificates for topping various years at trade school, and after a 4 year apprenticeship, have a piece of paper telling people that I am a qualified fitter and Machinist. The real learning comes from experience, and it's this experience that is needed to be shared with others.

Paul.


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## ausdier (Jan 4, 2014)

Austin said:


> I do understand this group and the knowledge extends far beyond HMEM, and I too agree knowledge should be accessed freely, that's why HMEM is free.


 
Just a quick question from me.
With a paid suscription you get more space, bigger avatar, no MOBILE advertising? etc, but I am wondering about point 8.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/faq.php?faq=supporting#faq_supportingmembership
Access to Private Forums, so does this mean unless you pay, you won't be able to get into a section that will probably hold all the more attractive articles or builds etc that will be the",
"*ANY ARTICLE AND IMAGES YOU SUBMIT THAT WE USE AND GIVE AN UPGRADED MEMBERSHIP FOR BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF HOMEMODELENGINEMACHINIST.COM.*
Just asking.


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## abby (Jan 4, 2014)

I guess what is actually getting up the contributors noses is the fact that any forum is only made successful by it's members posts which are freely donated  for the kudos gained , lets face it we all have egos and enjoy praise .
Without these contributions the forum is worthless , just a lot of dubious advertising and a few often unanswered requests for help.
The only other reason for anyone posting a "good" article is financial incentive.
Model making magazines pay for good articles and any attempt to change a free forum to a profit making magazine format and then claim ownership of the articles is doomed to failure because this is actually insulting the skilled , intelligent and experienced contributors.
We all know that the web is vast and it is impossible to prevent piracy and plagiarism , there have been whole threads posted on certain forums , simply copied and pasted from elsewhere so paying for articles could be difficult to police but that is the owners concern not the contributors.
I am always amazed that forums have a "no advertising " policy which appears to target contributors only.
The rule is vigorously enforced on some forums , even to the extent of members reporting such posts.
I operate a small  3D design and lost wax casting service , I design and manufacture parts for models , mainly steam locomotives , if I post an article I expect free reign to make it clear that any castings used in said article are available for sale.
Quid pro etc.
This is not intended as criticism but more a statement of fact as like a good many members I have spent several years searching for good forums , even setting up my own .
Most seem to fade away gradually as the contributors leave and what is left is a board where the same few people post the same answers over and over again to the same questions posed by someone who joined today and will never post again , or equally annoying the reply that starts " well I don't really know but "
Dan.


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## BaronJ (Jan 4, 2014)

Austin said:


> It has to be that way or we get penalized from Google as does the other site you post it to. The almighty google does not like duplicate content.



Google likes to own the content produced by others...  Just look at all the "Out of Copyright" books that have been scanned and are no longer available as downloadable !

I have things that I could post that may be of interest to members here and elsewhere, but I am not going to allow my work to be taken and be prevented from been used by me or others that I might give copies to.

I wonder whether something like the GPL would be useful in ensuring that our work would be and remain in the public domain.


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## Till (Jan 4, 2014)

stevehuckss396 said:


> That my work remains mine.


 

 I'm not into the details of american copyright. But in Germany and many other countries, the becomes property of xyz formula does not apply anyway.
 The artist can grant some kind of unlimited and exclusive license (insert correct term here ), but the work remains property of the artist.


  In terms of usability this is obviously the same (it's out of your reach as soon as you hand it in), but granting a license sounds much more generous of course.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2014)

ausdier said:


> Just a quick question from me.
> With a paid suscription you get more space, bigger avatar, no MOBILE advertising? etc, but I am wondering about point 8.
> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/faq.php?faq=supporting#faq_supportingmembership
> Access to Private Forums, so does this mean unless you pay, you won't be able to get into a section that will probably hold all the more attractive articles or builds etc that will be the",
> ...



Nope, if I set it up (which I haven't due to lack of interest) it's an off topic section for members. No technical content is posted to it. 

You guys understand I'm not an evil corporate drone looking to undermine information on the net, nor am I looking to publish the material in any other way aside from on site and the front page? 

That's how I'm being treated, like I have some sort of subversive goal to hoard content, when I'm just trying to get some stuff on the front page.

The information is free, always has been. Want to sell me an article? I'd love to see it, but as in all things capitalist and American, if I buy it I'm going to use it. This is the staple of our economy.

If you submit an article to a magazine, online trade  publication, a newspaper, they are going to do the same thing.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 4, 2014)

Austin

I have submitted articles to model engine magazines and have been published. They paid me a few hundred bucks (which was donated to charity) and I also retained ownership of the content of that article. All i'm saying is having to give up ownership of work is what's stopping most people from contributing.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2014)

Can I get you to send me a copy of their paper work so I can see how they do it?


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 4, 2014)

Austin said:


> Can I get you to send me a copy of their paper work so I can see how they do it?



I don't have a copy of the agreement anymore. It was all done over the computer. The basic agreement was that I still own the content and could not post it elsewhere for one year. Point being I still own it. Model engineer and Model engine Builder were both similar agreements. Maybe drop a line to Mike Rhemus at MEB or David Clark at ME and see if they can help.


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 4, 2014)

> If you submit an article to a magazine, online trade publication, a newspaper, they are going to do the same thing.



I spoke with George Bullis  a few years ago about submitting articles.He is  editor of Home Shop machinist , projects in Metal and Digital Machinist. They too struggle to get quality pertinent submissions. 
I may have a copy of the guidelines in the other computer will have to look . They pay IIRC $150 -$ 200 for first North American publishing rights. the author maintains copyright . and can sell plans or whatever after the magazine article has been released. IIRC village press also gives a handful of the magazine issue(s)to the author before normal distribution. and if the article is republished later in book format the author gets a couple copies of the book. 

I think Steve is right you will not find many willing to write a quality article and give away the copyrights for what amounts to  compensation equal to one hours pay .(edited the current value of an annual membership is $20.00 US)

Also I think if you sent an email to any of the magazine publishers with an introduction they will likely send current author guidelines. 
Tin


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## ausdier (Jan 4, 2014)

G'day Austin,
Please accept my apologies if my post was perceived as trying to portray you as an evil corporate drone. lol good analogy, no, not at all.
I suppose there is a bit of paranoia about what you are trying to do, and both sides need to be able to understand the position of each other.
I am sure there are people who may believe that you are an evil corporate drone (promise that is the last time I will use that) but in reality any and all websites cost money to maintain and the bigger a site gets, the more money it takes.
People need to be able to understand that a little bit of advertising helps keep this site alive for all and it keeps all past posts alive for all as well.
Otherwise all peoples hard work disappears into the great web abyss and by hard work it can be as simple as spending 20min typing out what they have done and putting it to some pictures.
To this extent if a site also tries to protect its foothold in a particular market by trying to keep content, exclusive to it, then it is no different to a retail shop that does deals with a supplier to only supply to them so they can then say they wont be beaten on a product they sell, because they are the only ones who sell that item.
OK, so if people are scared that Austin is one day going to produce a Best of HMEM book or CD/DVD and use what they have supplied, then dont post, easy.
Post somewhere else and then see it put onto a Chinese site with no consideration at all, which we have all seen before.
But then dont ***** if he tries to get this sort of content from other places to try and attract new people from other fields and then unfortunately gets content that may have been posted somewhere else.
It was said that after a quick search it was found that the original offending articles were taken from somewhere else, who here also did a search or does searches on all posts?
Out of the thousands of people on this site, one person raised the concerns, (Well done Steve), then when Austin was made aware of this fact it was removed and I would be sure that other person were talked to about their work as well.
If you have made it this far, my rant is nearly over. J
The concept of limited time before posting to another forum is probably the best idea that has come out of this so far ( in my opinion ) and is no different if you sell a business, you sign to say you wont just start another same business and steal all your past customers.
I suppose when it all comes down to it there needs to be a certain level of trust by all parties, owner, members and outside sources, that everyone is going to do the right thing.
Then if there are things that are of concern, they might be better served in a more private forum (PM) first and then if things dont pan out, there can be a more public discussion.
No one can keep all the people happy all the time, but if we work together and find solutions rather than just criticise then we can and will keep what is a great forum, GREAT.
OK all typed out now shall rest my 2 fingers, lets all take a deep breath and make this work for all our sakes.
PS: I have not been paid for this rant and have not posted anywhere else. LOL (sorry my stupid humour)
Cheers.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2014)

Thank you for that. 

I'm contacting other publishers to see how they handle it. I will let you guys know of any changes I make.

Thanks for talking this out guys!


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 4, 2014)

Lesson learned here. While us admins are all powerful and may have the ability to make members disappear we are not all knowing or ever present. I feel the assumption was made that Austin knew of this thread and of the OT articles. 
Please in the future if someone has a major concern about the direction of this forum please  pm Austin and myself rather than assuming we know of the problem. As I have said before all views are encouraged as long as presented in an intelligent respectful manner.
Tin Falcon


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## Paulsv (Jan 4, 2014)

Austin said:


> He has been stopped. I won't stand for plagiarism.



And yet the offending articles are all still there when I sign on......??????


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## BaronJ (Jan 4, 2014)

Just to add to what Ausdier said.  I've written a number of articles which have been published in various magazines.  In every case I own and hold conditional copyright.  Note "Conditional".  Where I've been paid, there is usually a time limit to my being able to submit the same article to another publication.  Six or twelve months usually.   During this time the magazine can do whatever it likes with that work except pass it on to a third party.

Where I've been commissioned to produce an article, that article in its entirety belongs to the magazine.  In other words they are the owners lock stock & barrel.  The fees paid are also commensurate with their ownership and may also have been negotiated over and above their normal rates.

The other situation is where an article has been produced specifically as an advertisement for a product or a service by me as an advertiser.  This type of submission remains entirely mine and in some cases I have had to pay to have it included in the publication.

I hope that these notes help.

Behavior as seen by those large corporates with deep pockets act as a big disincentive to those of us that see public domain works disappear  only to be regurgitated as for purchase.


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## Rivergypsy (Jan 4, 2014)

I just keep seeing that builds other than IC get neglected, which doesn't happen on Model Engine Maker. HMEM could change to HMICEM, and I could just follow my urge to MEM...


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## terrywerm (Jan 4, 2014)

There is a set of recurring themes and actions on just about every forum I have ever been a member of, including this one. I am not trying to be critical of ANYONE here, but instead am trying to be constructive and point out a few things that may or may not be apparent.

In so many cases a forum owner wants to increase membership. This helps to generate revenue in many cases, through ad views. On one forum I belong to the owner simply wants to be able to say that his forum is the biggest, therefore it must be the best. In other words, there are as many reasons for increasing membership as there are forums.

Lately the big push has been for articles. Not just here, but on a few other forums as well. The common perception being that good articles will draw more members. 

First, the articles need to be GOOD. The ones that were posted by Brian and Swifty were all very good. I found them to be enjoyable and interesting.

Second, the articles need to be RELEVANT. The alternative energy articles were anything but.

Articles need to be COMPLETE. They all need an opening, a body, and a closing. The articles from Mr. Roussey do not meet these criteria.

Articles need to use proper grammar and spelling. This is a no brainer.

I am glad to see that the content ownership and copyright issues are being re-examined. This used to be my favorite forum, but has not been for several months due to the copyright issues. I poke my head in here from time to time, but I do not make it a priority. I find myself coming here to glean ideas but I offer little because, like others, I wish to share my experiences, thoughts, plans, ideas, and knowledge with others in more than one forum. What I have to offer is not so good that keeping my participation limited to one forum will draw members to that one forum. I am not famous, and I don't want to be. I don't even care if I get kudos for the things that I do or that I offer. I present them so that others can benefit from them whether or not they ever thank me or give me an 'attaboy'. 

When attempting to increase membership, one must remember that this forum caters to a very limited group of hobbyists. Stamp collectors won't come here. Neither will coin collectors or bike riders. There are only so many people in the entire world that have an interest in making model engines, whether they be steam, air, solar, IC, vacuum, or Stirling. 

Large memberships also tend to create less quality and more quantity. Nothing against the new folks here - believe me!!  But, as the forum grows, the percentage of posts that deal with the same old questions increases dramatically. I am not complaining, it is simply the nature of the beast. There may be more good quality threads also, but the perception is that there are fewer of them in relation to the higher number of basic questions that are posted. 

To get away from that, we create and post articles, so that people can read up on the basics or on what they are looking for without re-asking the same old questions. The problem starts when people decide that they don't want to read a bunch of seemingly irrelevant stuff just to get at a little bit of meat and potatoes. So, they post a new thread asking a question that has been asked a thousand times before. It's quick, it's easy, and they get direct answers to a direct question. Even searching old threads is not as easy as asking a direct question and then waiting for a pointed answer. In short, this very format is it's own worst enemy.

Oh, and worrying about what Google says is baloney. Who the hell died and made Google the god of the internet anyway?? Consider these two scenarios:
1. Pay more attention to Google, and less attention to what the members say. Result: members fade away but the now empty forum is easily found in a Google search. With no members, there is no forum no matter what Google says.
2. Pay attention to members and ignore Google. Result: Members participate and feel valued. Google could care less. Forum lives happily ever after.

I believe (and this is just my opinion) that if the admins and mods follow a 
QUALITY before QUANTITY ideology that the membership numbers will take care of themselves. Maybe we should be looking at the number of active members, not just the total number.

Like I said earlier, I am simply offering some food for thought and am not personally criticizing anyone. Everything here is my opinion, and some folks may not agree with everything I said. Like Austin said, "Thanks for talking this out".  I am also happy to see this being handled in a very good way and I only wanted to bring up some points that may have been overlooked.


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## dicej32 (Jan 5, 2014)

My opinion is everybody is missing the point here. When Austin bought this forum he did it for one reason. To make money. How? It's called Internet Marketing. Which by the way is why Google is god. The basic premise is you create or buy a website/forum/blog which attracts large amounts of people. Traffic is the key. All those ads you see come from where? You guessed it, Google. This forum has a huge potential for revenue due to the large amount of registered users. Sort of a captive audience if you will. Plus he gets a nice big old email list to go with it. Those off topic articles you're seeing? It's called Article Marketing. It's function is to attract people to the forum. You search Google for let's say energy generation and now a link to HMEM pops up. When the person clicks on the link he ends up on the forum where he gets to see all those ads too. The more eyes the merrier. The ultimate goal is to get the highest ranking in the google search engine as possible. Google returns results in order of ranking which unfortunately Internet Marketing basically manipulates. So the higher your sites ranking, the more it appears on the first page of Google results, the more traffic to the site, the more ads get seen, etc.

All that being said, does that make Austin a bad person? Not at all. He's a business man. He's watching out for his business. He's not a model engineer and he doesn't pretend to be one. So you can take from this forum what you want. You can participate and get the information you need while ignoring all the ads/articles etc. that are not relevant. Just realize this is not a labor of love; it's a business.

JR


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## abby (Jan 5, 2014)

JR it is very obvious from your post that infact it is you who have  "missed the point" , have you read the previous posts ? Do you really  think anyone needs a lesson in internet marketing ? 
It is posts such as yours , which ignore what has already been written and then go on to state the obvious that are part of forum decline.
Of  course you are entitled to an opinion , but lets have something that  states a sensible point of view that has perhaps been overlooked or not  given a decent airing.
Most importantly read and understand before banging away at the keyboard , and ask yourself "how much have I contributed and how much have I taken" then you might get the point and be in a position to write with some relevancy.


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 5, 2014)

> My opinion is everybody is missing the point here


There are many points here many perspectives. 
This place started as a friendly place for people to learn to build model engines. That is the focus of this forum. If articles is a new internet focus and a better way of teaching the new members and a more efficient way of presenting information I am all for it.
 Austin represents a company called group builders . So the focus is to manage the forums in such a way as to generate revenue at the same time building the individual subjected focused group or on-line community.  We also need to realize the forum is now just a part of the on line community. Articles are in the process of development, there is a place to post photos show off engines post videos and a download section to access various plans etc. 


> All that being said, does that make Austin a bad person? Not at all. He's a business man. He's watching out for his business. He's not a model engineer and he doesn't pretend to be one
> Just realize this is not a labor of love; it's a business.



Many of us here remember when this forum was a labor of love. And We rather liked it that way. There was no concern of our e-mails addresses or posts being sold for profit. There was no concern of our children seeing ads for inappropriate content like mail order brides. 
That being said we also know that there have been improvements that have been funded by advertising dollars. more band width. more data storage space and 24 hour professional software and hardware support.  


There is very much of a ying and yang here . If one focuses only on the bottom line and revenue and ignores the need of the community the residence will move elsewhere and the neighborhood will go downhill. A few new will move in but we would be faced with a large urban renewal project or a big empty lot Like has happened to many US factories. 

Focus only on growing the community and we will indeed grow but there needs to be funds to pay salaries maintain upgrade hardware etc etc. there would be no community without a server and all it take to maintain and grow. 
And yes that takes money and money comes from internet marketing. 
Focus on one point of view and this community will fail.

Tin falcon


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## Admin (Jan 5, 2014)

> You can participate and get the information you need while ignoring all the ads/articles etc. that are not relevant. Just realize this is not a labor of love; it's a business.



It can be both. That's why I'm on at 6:49 AM on a Sunday.  

And to address why the articles was still there, I was having someone review it. It has been taken down.


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## ozzie46 (Jan 5, 2014)

Austin said:


> It can be both. That's why I'm on at 6:49 AM on a Sunday.
> 
> And to address why the articles was still there, I was having someone review it. It has been taken down.



  Articles still there as of 6:15 am Mountain time.

 Ron


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 5, 2014)

> It can be both. That's why I'm on at 6:49 AM on a Sunday.



Good point!
we are looking forward to seeing your first engine build. You have the best resource on the net to learn from. 

There have been many good points brought up in this thread, While many of us grew with the old not for profit forum I think the focus needs to be to move forward for the mutual benefit of Group builders and the HMEM community. 
A diamond is a beautiful thing there are many facets. The facets need to be balanced and properly proportioned . If to much effort is put on one facet the adjacent facets get smaller and the diamond looses value . 
Tin
PS I am still seeing the OT articles on the home page as well.


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## BaronJ (Jan 5, 2014)

dicej32 said:


> My opinion is everybody is missing the point here. When Austin bought this forum he did it for one reason. To make money. How? It's called Internet Marketing.
> JR



What is good for the goose is also good for the gander !

I've no objection to anybody making money, after all its what makes the world go round.

However if I give freely the benefit of my knowledge,  experience, skills etc.  I expect that to remain so.  Not to be taken and packaged as a for sale item.


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 5, 2014)

Austin: 
IMHO some  the best writers on the subject of Model engineering are already here. 

Dare I say this but if you gave lifetime premium membership in exchange for 6 Months exclusive first publishing rights.  and the Author keeps  copyright for future use you might get some interest. 
Current active members would benefit from premium membership and you would get needed quality articles. You could potential get hundreds of articles with no cash outlay. And you would have a good base group of lifetime members. 
Tin


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## Admin (Jan 5, 2014)

ozzie46 said:


> Articles still there as of 6:15 am Mountain time.
> 
> Ron



Some of the articles will remain. I stopped the writer, and the plagiarized article was removed. 



Tin Falcon said:


> Good point!
> we are looking forward to seeing your first engine build. You have the best resource on the net to learn from.
> 
> There have been many good points brought up in this thread, While many of us grew with the old not for profit forum I think the focus needs to be to move forward for the mutual benefit of Group builders and the HMEM community.
> ...



Which ones are you guys considering OT? If you can let me know I will review them.

I'm hoping to start my sterling engine in the near future. I think that's going to be my jumping off point. 



BaronJ said:


> What is good for the goose is also good for the gander !
> 
> I've no objection to anybody making money, after all its what makes the world go round.
> 
> However if I give freely the benefit of my knowledge,  experience, skills etc.  I expect that to remain so.  Not to be taken and packaged as a for sale item.



That's not what's happening here. I'm offering compensation in exchange for the articles. I'm buying the articles submitted. 



Tin Falcon said:


> Austin:
> IMHO some  the best writers on the subject of Model engineering are already here.
> 
> Dare I say this but if you gave lifetime premium membership in exchange for 6 Months exclusive first publishing rights.  and the Author keeps  copyright for future use you might get some interest.
> ...



I agree, that's why I tapped members to try and write, but got very few articles and even less feedback. 

I'm going to contact some publishers and see how they are doing it. I have some friends in the industry who may be able to help, but I really like your idea too!


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## ozzie46 (Jan 5, 2014)

Two articles relating to "biomass Gasifiers" and "building a windmill turbine.


Ron


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 5, 2014)

Austin 



> Which ones are you guys considering OT? If you can let me know I will review them.



The first five are IMHO OT.




> I'm hoping to start my sterling engine in the near future. I think that's going to be my jumping off point.



Good to hear you are jumping into the hobby but the general consensus is start on a Air /steam engine the tolerances are a whole lot more forgiving. 



> That's not what's happening here. I'm offering compensation in exchange for the articles. I'm buying the articles submitted.





> I agree, that's why I tapped members to try and write, but got very few articles and even less feedback.




IMHO there are two problems the compensation offered is too low and  you expected the author to abandon all rights to his or her work. 
Increase compensation and expect limited rights to the work and I think you will get more response. 

I think no one here had the nerve to say in public that you offer of compensation was insanely low.



> I'm going to contact some publishers and see how they are doing it. I have some friends in the industry who may be able to help, but I really like your idea too!



I think you will find that my proposal is on the low end of customary compensation. I am trying to look on both sides of the coin here . Some fair compensation to the authors . There ability to retain copyright.  And you not having to put out large amount of cash up front to generate articles. 
This will obliviously only work on a one per member basis . In the future when articles come in and generate revenue then there should be cash to fairly compensate for second and third..... articles .
Tin


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## Rivergypsy (Jan 5, 2014)

It may be to make money, not that
a shared love of a subject should be, but that's life I guess; but this place has changed for the worse without a doubt. And that's without the ads. There are some lovely people here; don't get me wrong, but it's not what it used to be.


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## RonGinger (Jan 5, 2014)

The whole idea of articles is new to me. As I said earlier I never knew they were on this site until this thread started. I dont see how articles will help pull people to a forum. I read forums to see what other guys are doing, and as kind of a 'club chat' I feel I know many of the guys here like I do guys in my local club.

I think of many of these threads as articles, particularly the build logs. Other than the somewhat choppy text, with the interspersed 'good job' notes and some questions they make great articles. I have always thought someone with good writing skill should take these long threads and edit them into an article. There are many- maybe a hundred or more, great articles right here, just waiting for a good editor to clean them into articles. But that, of course, gets us back to the copyright and ownership issues.

Is the problem that Google doesn't see the content of the forum so doesn't index them?

How about this. We point out a few threads or build logs that would make nice. on topic, articles. Austin pays a writer/editor to take all the notes and edit them into a nice article. The original author gets a payment, and it seems to me, based on publishing in a hobby mag, that he ought to get maybe $200-$500. He still owns his original thread, and could do as he please, but since Austin paid to have the edited version, then he gets rights to use them.

Remember, a copyright refers to the exact words in a document. Anyone can take that document and re-write using different words and he owns the copyright to the revision. A copyright protects the exact words, not the thought.


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## hobby (Jan 5, 2014)

I used to look at forums as just a get together for hobbyists in there field of interest to share, things in that interest, so I too was very disaapointed with this site, to the point that I personally complained about all the advertizings, bla bla bla....

But JR, has made the point very clear to me, in his post #76, I see this forum in a whole new light now, and I have no reason to put out my complain thread about excessive advertizing anymore, on any forums, that I have the privaledge to frequent, also TIN, made some very great points and suggestions, about this sight to back up the whole reality of how these forums actually work, and the very carefull stategies needed to keep forums working smoothly.

Austin, it would be great to have you join in with us, to help make it a labor of love for the forum as the much needed business aspect of it, as you build your engines,.

I must say I really am not qualified to speak out on this manner, of labor of love for engine building, as a lot of my build threads on this forum has more to do with the enjoyment of machining parts to build mechanical models of nonengine projects, in metal as the prime material, then just building engines alone.

Thanks again Austin, JR, and TIN, for making it clear and to the point of how these forums actually work.
&#12288;

RON sorry I posted after your very good post that deserves some attention to read, but I posted and yours came up before mine.


&#12288;
&#12288;


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## BaronJ (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi Austin,

     Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by *BaronJ* 

 
_What is good for the goose is also good for the gander !

I've no objection to anybody making money, after all its what makes the world go round.

However if I give freely the benefit of my knowledge,  experience,  skills etc.  I expect that to remain so.  Not to be taken and packaged  as a for sale item._

That's not what's happening here. I'm offering compensation in exchange for the articles. I'm buying the articles submitted.
[/quote]

What I was getting at was how information given freely here and elsewhere has/is been/being taken and packaged by third parties then sold.

I apologize if my comment inferred otherwise.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 5, 2014)

It's sad in one way to see this flaring up the way it is,
SPECIALLY AFTER AUSTIN, TIN, are joining in to try to fix the issue here.
I ean like give them a few minutes to trun around and fixe what members don't like
and that is beeing applied in all your surounding.

Did you know that your working for a companie, "name what ever you want,"
while at work and you manage to improve production or a tool are what ever improvement
you want to talk about IT"S NOT YOUR'SE It belong to the companie........ no questions ask.
Ive been a Grand Master Tech for GM for over 20 years. when I found an improvement of
anykind , or changing the tutorial on how to replace a parts, Sure GM was giving me a bonus
but the IDEA was and is still there's .
Even today as an Electro-Mechanical-Engineering-Robotic-Professor any developement, paper work,
or what ever belongs to the college and it's a sign contract.

As for those *****ing about not ENGINE MODELLING FORUM.... well if' it's beeing posted by a very active
member can help us in our machinist ability (Rfellows ardruino's table is one of them Brian's ball machine)
only to name a few are not side tracking our hobby but simply open our brains to new idea 

hey guys   take  a few *beer**beer**beer*  and we are to early in 2014 to argue

 let Austin and Tin do their job now that they have many inputs on things
 that members don't like

 cheers


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## Rivergypsy (Jan 5, 2014)

Give it a rest CH; they're here when they need to be, not when we them want them to be. That's $$$ not a good forum


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## Walltoddj (Jan 5, 2014)

RonGinger said:


> Is the problem that Google doesn't see the content of the forum so doesn't index them?
> 
> 
> How about this. We point out a few threads or build logs that would make nice. on topic, articles. Austin pays a writer/editor to take all the notes and edit them into a nice article. The original author gets a payment, and it seems to me, based on publishing in a hobby mag, that he ought to get maybe $200-$500. He still owns his original thread, and could do as he please, but since Austin paid to have the edited version, then he gets rights to use them.
> ...


As I said before google is a crock and yes they do index the forum post maybe not all but some example is Copperhead Steam Roller if you google it it shows up.

Most are not looking to copyright just to get it out there so it can be used by the members, but I do agree we need a way to stop others from selling what we did for a profit!!


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 5, 2014)

> Give it a rest CH; they're here when they need to be, not when we them want them to be. That's $$$ not a good forum


 and that's a good thing that what boss do they show up when they are needed fixe the problem then vanish,

what are you expecting????? have a nice day emails every day from them 
or:noidea::noidea: come on guys give us a reason to argue about something.

 just curious when everything goes good at home, do you spank your wife with a broom to start an argument  (hope not) well they do the same here:wall:

 I never had the chance to see any BOSS walking in the shop and yelling
*HEY something to cry about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

*i'm sure I won't see that eather*


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 5, 2014)

> It's sad in one way to see this flaring up the way it is,
> SPECIALLY AFTER AUSTIN, TIN, are joining in to try to fix the issue here.
> I ean like give them a few minutes to trun around and fixe what members don't like
> and that is beeing applied in all your surounding.


Thanks Ch you are right. I really think now that concerns are in the open Austin is listening and there will be some positive changes but they will not happen instantly. Austin need to do some research An I expect confer with his staff.  But I do think thing will change for the better of all. 



> Give it a rest CH; they're here when they need to be, not when we them want them to be. That's $$$ not a good forum



RG : I do think your statement is unfair. IMHO Austin  does his best to be involved he is here at all hours as he sees fit. And realize he has a dozen or so forums to check in on .
I am also on here at all hours of the day and night as I see fit. We are not at your beckon call.We do have lives. 
Tin


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## Swifty (Jan 5, 2014)

Luc, your quite correct in saying if you develop an idea or an improvement for a company that you are working for, its their property. You are being paid a wage from that company for your work, a small bonus is their appreciation.

When I retired, I did some contract design and development work for a door company for a new security shutter for shopping malls. I charged them for every hour of my work, and all the designs, methods, etc became their property. I was approached a short time later by an opposition company wanting me to do the same thing, on the same product. I refused to do this, as im sure that they only wanted me to hand over the design drawings to them. The original company had paid me for all the development time and I wasnt about to undermine them. Sorry, were getting a bit off topic.

Paul.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 5, 2014)

> The original company had paid me for all the development time and I wasnt about to undermine them. Sorry, were getting a bit off topic.


 Hi Paul this is not off topic THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN TOPICS

 cheers

 Luc


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## Anko (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi
As i'm not longer an active member (just watch some building threads and stuff), I´m not sure if i'm well placed here to post an opinion on this matter, I will do, if you feel that is out of place or does not hit the issue, please ignore it, or some moderator please erase it.

I think, that the base problem of the forum, is not the ads for advertising, is something with the morale of participating in a profit forum.

For the older users, there is a feeling attached to this forum, because of the wonderful it was before, much like a family. Older and experienced users were always watching for us the newbies and newcomers, congratulating us for our achievements, and encouraging us in not so lucky times. I feel it too in my short time before the transition of ownership.

Thing is, first of all, we have to accept the motion that the forum will NOT be the same as before (I'm not saying that is bad or better now), and this is natural, in order to survive, things must evolve: this forum was great, and bigger and bigger every day, in some point it was not able to maintain itself out of charity.

So now, beside that the forum remains almost the same (I deactivate the ads and haven't seen one then), there all kinds of issues, problems and discontent about anything.

The morality problem? we share knowledge, ideas, pictures and all for free, just for the fun and enjoyment of seeing great engines threads, smooth running engines, and help other tho archive these goals.

Some people dont feel right about it, because out of his enthusiasm, some people are making money, its like work for free. The time and work to make a post is relevant: writing, redacting, upload pictures, answers and ask questions to other users, and if your native language is not English, then spell check to make sure that at least somebody could understand the basic idea. Making a post could consume and hour or more easy, and for the people with time problems, posting in the forum instead of playing in the shop is a sacrifice, but just for the joy of sharing, they do it anyway.

But now, out of this joy and good will, someone is taking advantage, than, most of the people don't feel good about it. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Doest not mather if Austin changes the color of the forum to a more blueish one, or the font from Arial to Arial Narrow. A complain thread will come up, and afther endless discution, will end with the issue topic of copyrigth and profit.

That being said, this forum will not improve until a few facts are clear to all:

-The forum will not be the same as before.
-Naturally for web evolution, this is a forum for profit. and will remain so.

For the users that they joy in this hobby is so, that they dont care about the copyright or profit, my congratulations! you are the people that is keeping the forum alive!

For the other users, you will have to decide if you live with the facts listed above, or not, the intermediate state has only accomplished a slow and problematic transition.

For Austin, he is not the evil dictator that have ruined the forum, he is just a person that their job is to maintain the community happy, ensure high traffic, and user expansion. Its not fair that all the guilt goes to him. If the forum were not bought, then at some point it will have died, because of the inability of sustain itself, better have some that nothing.

Austin: It will be better IMO if you discuss first your plans for the forum, strategy and proyections before you implement it, that way anybody will not feel offended, or taken by surprise with changes, and also that way all users can contribute, making any changes something positive, and sparing complain threads.

I hope to not have offended anybody, is just my opinion.

Saludos


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 5, 2014)

Annko: IMHO well stated especially coming from someone that English is a second language. 

Apple corporation started with a couple guys building computers in a garage. 
Growth most often necessitates change . Bigger facilities require more income to maintain.

This forum was one mans Idea and experiment it grew to the point where it needed bigger home and more funds to maintain. 

It will never be what it was but it can be excellent  grow and thrive. 

Lets all work towards improvement. Lets see more creative ideas and maybe a few less complaints. 
Tin


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 5, 2014)

> Hi
> As i'm not longer an active member (just watch some building threads and stuff),


 
 and why not????????????????? funny not an active member, but you ***** about it,
 sound like my neibour's girl friend


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## Anko (Jan 5, 2014)

> and why not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I said that if someone feel offended, or see that my post is out of place, that please ignore it.

Yet you pass judgment on me, as your neighbor girlfriend... I got it, if you dont participate, then stay off. pretty clear.

I was part of this forum before as I´m now, the fact that I do not post new threads anymore does not automated deleted my account, see?

I watch the forum every day, seeing its evolution and of course enjoying its content, thats a passive role, but still I feel a part of it.​ 
But, thank Canadian Horsepower, you gave me one more reason to stay not active.


Pd: Thank TIN for the kind words.

Saludos


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## Walltoddj (Jan 5, 2014)

Well said Anko we are all not as young as we us to be, I hope the day never comes that I can use my tools but that day we'll come for all!! As they say if I'd known I was going to live this long I'd have taken better care of myself!


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## Nerdz (Jan 5, 2014)

If it helps any, and As a Relative newbie, I actually found this place through google. It kept coming up in the search results. However, it wasnt because of articles. It was more for the forum content itself. Usually my assumption is, that if something keeps coming up in search results, it is a good knowledge base. 

With what Ive seen here, Im pretty correct, but I could also be the result of marketing.


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## ironman (Jan 5, 2014)

After a long absence, I have come back to something new and saddening.  Upon arrival, I thought I must have gone to a different site.  Lots of strange stuff.

I am just passing through but I hope everything works out.  Later

Ray


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## Art K (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm with Chris. I ran across this forum while searching for something else on Google. I felt I ran into a gold mine, I appreciate the wisdom and insight from folks here. I used to lurk and slowly became more involved, you might say more invested. I admit I do lurk on other sites but when I sit down at the computer the mouse just moves to bookmarks and HMEM. Maybe for me it's easy to like it just the way it is because I wasn't involved back in the day, I never had to walk seven miles to school uphill both ways. Relax, and have a home brew.
Art


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## hobby (Jan 6, 2014)

Anko, 
my congradulations to you to post a very good and thought provocative post, I don't think you offended anybody, because we are all mature adults, we need good input as what you have given us, thanks for posting some good information to help us understand better how to go with the changes that the forum must undergo.

We really could use you as an active member again, you have a lot to contribute to this hobby.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 6, 2014)

> I got it, if you dont participate, then stay off. pretty clear.


 
 people sure like to interpret things that I NEVER SAID
 and then they sound like the victim  .....................
 is that how it work to get attention ??


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 6, 2014)

Guys settle breath relax.
Remember all are welcome here who want to learn about model engine building and show respect. 
Sometimes listening or in this case reading is the most important involvement. 
The reader is here learning and informed with what is happening here. 
And when you do post try to make other feel welcome. I know a little friendly banter can sometimes misinterpreted

I think the focus here needs to be how to Generate quality articles that educatete and attract new members. 
I know these are a new concept new to me as well.  But think about it how many tines have folks come on the forum to ask how do I perform this very basic machining task or make this part common to all or most engines. You can fill in the blank or use your imagination here. And of course this topic has been discussed a dozen times before. 
Will well written well organized well cataloged articles new folks can search and read up on some of the basics. Then ask questions based on a basic knowledge of the subject. 
So easier to learn for the new folk and less frustration from guys who have been here since the beginning of creation(of this forum) .
Tin


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## Admin (Jan 6, 2014)

I've closed this thread as it's degenerated from it's original purpose. 

I have heard your complaints, and I appreciate them. I am working towards a solution that will work for all of us. 

I will let you guys know when I implement a new system, but till then if you have any questions please contact me directly through pm. 

I really appreciate everyone's insight and look forward to releasing a program you will all be interested in participating in.


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