# 5C versus ER32 Collet Blocks



## Blogwitch (Mar 23, 2012)

John Stevenson has been showing his new design of ER32 machining blocks on a few sites, and seeing as I managed to obtain a pair today, I thought I would show them on here first.

As most of you most probably know, this is the normal method of quickly machining flats on the ends of bars, but you will only be able to use them if you also use 5C collets.








John S has designed a pair of blocks for use with ER32 collets, as a lot of people now use these as standard on their machinery, so it is good economics to use those rather than having to buy 5C as well.







As you can see, the block is drilled all the way through, so long pieces can be held to have flats machined on or cross holes drilled across their end.
The main block is a lot shorter than the other set, but these new ones also have the threads protruding from the end, so for OAL it is swings and roundabouts on that score.







By having the main blocks much shorter, they sit very nice and square in an upright position on it's back face. This is a 6" vice, and the main block sits fully down into the vice and the collet nut sits above the vice jaws. By using a backstop, holes in the end of bars can easily be drilled in any combination you can configure with these blocks.







Talking about backstops, because the nut is larger than the main block, you can use that as a front stop by pressing it against the side of the chuck jaws. One thing less to worry about.







So these are the blocks, and in the short time I have had them, I gave them a good check over and they really are exceptionally well made.
Rather than having to buy them as a set, you can buy each one individually. Also, because the person buying them will also normally have their own collet nut, they are not supplied, so keeping the cost down, but they are available if needed.







So where can you get them from?

The usual place, about the only retail company doing any R&D to see what we really want, and making them available to the masses.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collet-Fixtures



John


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## vcutajar (Mar 23, 2012)

John

Thanks for the review of this new product from arceurotrade. I want a pair.

Unfortunately, the cost of a pair and the cost of delivery to where I live are basically the same. So I guess I will have to live without them until I have a desperate need for them (or I come and live in the UK).

Still, a handly bit of tooling to have.

Vince


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## fcheslop (Mar 23, 2012)

Hi John,thanks for the review just spent my pocket money :big:
Best wishes Frazer


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## doubleboost (Mar 23, 2012)

Hi
I have recently made a couple of these holders
http://www.metalworkingfun.com/showthread.php?tid=113
The time involved make the Arc Euro ones a very good offer
Mine have been very usefull
John


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## Blogwitch (Mar 23, 2012)

John,

When I look at tooling, and want maybe to make it myself, I always look to see if it is really worth my while. Sometimes, tooling just isn't available, so I have to make it myself.
In this case, to buy the materials to produce a tough tool after heat treatment, and to grind them to exact size afterwards, like these are, and spend a couple of hours machining one up, it just isn't cost effective for me to do, so I just buy them.

The cost of these are only the same as if I was charging myself for one hours work, so in my case, it is a no brainer, but I know some people are on a tight budget, so in those cases, making your own out of a bit of unknown is their only option, and I really respect that because a few years ago I was in the same situation.

Some people have a love of making tools, and yours are a very good example, so good on you mate, keep it up.


John


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## Paulsv (Mar 24, 2012)

Bogs, thanks for the review. I ordered a set this morning, as I have er 32 collets. Always wanted collet blocks, but didn't want to have to buy all new collets. I have a nice roller bearing collet nut from Maritool to use with them. Shipping to the US was 19 pounds, but they knock off the VAT (or part of it anyway) so the total was 44 pounds, or a little over 55 bucks. A set of 5C blocks goes for about 45 bucks plus shipping in the US, so the cost was about the same. I can't figure out why someone didn't start making these long ago!


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## Blogwitch (Mar 24, 2012)

Paul,

I'm glad you liked the bit of a write up. I didn't do it to get extra sales for Arc, but to show the members on here that there is at least one company trying to satisfy our needs for new and useful tooling, like you have said, it should have been done ages ago.

In fact on other sites, people are asking for an ER25 version, and Ketan, the owner of Arc, has promised that one will now soon be in the pipeline. Try asking Grizzly or Shars to do that for you, and I could guess their reply.

I'm sure that when you receive yours, you will be as happy with the quality, as I am with mine, and maybe think that they were not too expensive after all.

My 5C ones will now relegated to only being used for square, or bar that is larger than the ones ER collets can hold.

BTW, I also use those ball raced nuts, great aren't they? They really do make my life a lot easier as I can't grip too well any more, I can almost tighten up by hand with enough pressure to start cutting, they really help me when changing cutters, I don't need three hands any more, one to hold the cutter, one for the nut and one for the drawbar, I can just spin the nut on and the cutter is tightly gripped.


John


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## vcutajar (Mar 24, 2012)

Paul

After your post and seeing that the delivery to the US was 19 pounds, I went again to the arceurotrade site to see if I made a mistake.

Well, the set costs 30 pounds and delivery to another country in Europe (Malta) is 29.81 pounds. Go figure. Could never understand how the postage works.

I will still remain a loyal customer with them, because they have good products, but will only buy if the price (including delivery) is cost effective or I am desperate for the item.

Vince


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## Blogwitch (Mar 24, 2012)

Vince,

I think you will find that it isn't Arc's fault for the high cost of postage, but the mail system itself.

I know for a fact that Arc have bent over backwards to get their postage rates lower, but you can't expect them to make a loss on selling something when the the fault isn't theirs.

It might be that the postal services charge more to get to your area of the world because there is less mail going to your island, whereas a lot more goes to the US, so the postal rates will be lower, purely because of volume discounts amongst the postal services.


John


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## vcutajar (Mar 24, 2012)

John

I am not blaming ARC at all and as you said I am sure they will do their utmost to keep their customers happy. I have been and will remain a customer with them but due to the cost of delivery sometimes it not worth it.

I would tend to blame Royal Mail as they have a monopoly of the route (UK to Malta). We have three London flights daily in Winter and in Summer they double and each flight carries lots of mail. I know because I see it. Sometimes in Summer mail has to be left behind because the planes run out of space.

Many big sellers in the UK have started using land freight to mainland Europe to keep the delivery costs down but unfortunately for us we are not in mainland Europe but smack in the middle of the Mediterranean and we get nearly all our deliveries thanks to Royal Mail.

I guess that's island life living at the southern edge of Europe.

Vince


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## Swede (Mar 26, 2012)

For those who have never used these sorts of blocks, they are _hugely _useful, whether ER or 5C. Everything from creating flats to simply doing work on the end face. I use these vs. a set of V-blocks... I think they hold better.

Very handy to center work beneath a mill spindle. If the block measures 1.500" across the flats, then you know the center is at 0.750", and a simple edge finder on the block works great. Assuming the block is accurately ground, of course.

If the ER version is too expensive, a set of 5C with 3 or 4 of the more usual collet sizes is a good investment.


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## Ketan Swali (Mar 26, 2012)

vcutajar  said:
			
		

> John
> 
> I am not blaming ARC at all and as you said I am sure they will do their utmost to keep their customers happy. I have been and will remain a customer with them but due to the cost of delivery sometimes it not worth it.
> 
> ...



Vince, 

I agree that it is unfortunate that the shipping costs to Malta are so high. Only a slightly different note, what I also find amazing is that most of the Workshop Practice Series books are printed in Malta, and the publisher finds it cheaper to get them printed in Malta then in the U.K.!. Only problem is that delivery times for these books are always very long. 

Ketan at ARC.


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## wongster (Mar 26, 2012)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> BTW, I also use those ball raced nuts, great aren't they? They really do make my life a lot easier as I can't grip too well any more, I can almost tighten up by hand with enough pressure to start cutting, they really help me when changing cutters, I don't need three hands any more, one to hold the cutter, one for the nut and one for the drawbar, I can just spin the nut on and the cutter is tightly gripped.
> 
> John



Hello John,

I just put a set of the square and hex ER32 Collet Blocks in the cart but couldn't find the ball raced nut mentioned. May I know where did you purchased yours? 

Regards,
Wong

Edit: Found it with google. Yahoo turned out nothing on the first few pages.


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## kvom (Mar 26, 2012)

Swede  said:
			
		

> For those who have never used these sorts of blocks, they are _hugely _useful, whether ER or 5C. Everything from creating flats to simply doing work on the end face. I use these vs. a set of V-blocks... I think they hold better.


The 5C blocks are my first choice too for holding round stock in the mill vise.


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## Don1966 (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks for the preview of the blocks. I did order a set of ER32, the shipping cost is high about 37 euros to ship to the states, but I figured it would be worth it to have a set.

Don


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## Blogwitch (Mar 27, 2012)

For anyone looking for ball raced nuts (ER ones that is ;D), I get them from here, but they are usually limited in quantities held, so you have to wait until they are shown again and get them quick.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Gloster-To...b=8801468&_sid=26428065&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

They do have some real bargains at times, I just picked this up (they only had the one), at least 130 pounds cheaper than normal or anywhere else, in one place 500 pounds cheaper, for exactly the same thing.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220984348065&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:1123


John


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## vcutajar (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks for the tip John. Never encountered that shop before.

Vince


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## shred (Mar 27, 2012)

I have long stuck a straight-shank ER holder in a 5C collet in a block to hold odd sizes my 5C set doesn't go to and this will be much handier. However I'm not tooled up on ER-32... get one now or wait for the 25... hmm... ???


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## mklotz (Mar 27, 2012)

Don't overlook the possibility of making your own collet blocks. I made a cylindrical one with a base clamp that allows it to be clamped horizontally or vertically in the mill vise. Twenty-four holes turn it into a very handy miniature dividing head.






All sorts of miniature engine parts have been made on this rig.


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## hmember (Apr 2, 2012)

Marv, I like that idea :bow: And 24 divisions gives quite the flexibility. Have you detailed the construction of this somewhere? I'd like to make one, a 5C version. I'd think that a picture or two of the parts separated would do the job.

Thanks kindly.


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## mklotz (Apr 2, 2012)

hmember  said:
			
		

> Marv, I like that idea :bow: And 24 divisions gives quite the flexibility. Have you detailed the construction of this somewhere? I'd like to make one, a 5C version. I'd think that a picture or two of the parts separated would do the job.



I haven't described its construction here. I'll have to dig it out, take some photos and start a new thread - I don't want to intrude any further into Bogs'.

Edit: See descriptive post at:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=18213.0


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## Mayhem (Jun 28, 2012)

I had been toying with the idea of buying a set of 5C collets and blocks, as ER32 collet blocks didn't exist. Boy am I glad that I saw that Arc make them. 

Of course, they are out of stock as you all bought them! I'm hoping they will have more soon, as my Mum is visiting friends in the UK in September, so shipping will be much cheaper (more money for tooling and beer ;D )


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## Groomengineering (Jun 28, 2012)

Hi all, just a quick heads up on "cheap and cheerful" 5c collet blocks. I used my square block for the first time the other day to carve a piece of brass rod into a connecting rod. After a bit of machining things started to look odd. After a bit of scratch.gif and measuring it turns out my 'square' block is actually a rectangle. :wall: It's about 0.008" wider one way than the other. It's still usable, but defeats a good bit of the advantages of using it. I haven't measured the hex block yet, but I don't have high hopes.

Cheers

Jeff


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## mp409mm (Sep 3, 2013)

vcutajar said:


> John
> 
> Thanks for the review of this new product from arceurotrade. I want a pair.
> 
> ...


 
True, I have the same problem, so I wait until I visit UK and bring them back with me.


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## petertha (Sep 3, 2013)

Groomengineering said:


> After a bit of scratch.gif and measuring it turns out my 'square' block is actually a rectangle. :wall: It's about 0.008" wider one way than the other. It's still usable, but defeats a good bit of the advantages of using it.


 
I'll trade you. My Asian knockoff block was ground square in section within a thou, but the collet hole was off center >0.010". Different screw-up, same end result.


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