# Gear cutter holder



## wesley (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi all need to get a set of Involute gear cutters ,the ones l am looking at have a 22mm bore an key way slot.
What l need is a kind person out there to send me some diamensions of a tool holder ie from where the taper starts to the end ,so need thread length/nut /spacers and how long is the key,sorry to be a pain , but have to make my own as the mill has a NT 41 taper and if you can find one then l would have to save for the next ten years for it ,so have to go the shop made way,hope this makes sence.
      wes:hDe:


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## BaronJ (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi Wesley,

I'm not sure that I understand what you are asking !  The gear cutters have a parallel bore, and I assume that you have some method of holding a straight shank.  So it becomes a simple turning job to make a tool holder and a suitable slot drill for making the keyway, though I must admit that I don't use it, I've not had a cutter slip whilst cutting.


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## restore49 (Dec 16, 2017)

There is a Web site that lists the dimensions for all the different tapers - hope you have a taper attachment . The cutter end is simply a shaft with a nut and a pin driven in to engage the slot in the cutter.


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## DJP (Dec 16, 2017)

This sounds like an horizontal mill cutter holder. They should be available in various tapers. My old Burke mill had a Browne and Sharp taper for example. If you visit a small machine shop I'll bet they have some in the junk bin.


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## bazmak (Dec 16, 2017)

A little more info would be good If its for a horizontal mill then the cutter with 22mm bore will be too small for the arbor shaft ??
I bought an R8  face cutter for my mill and deailed an adaptor to clamp and keyway as the arbor had a 22mm spigot.2 tools for the price of 0ne.If you intend to make the whole arbor,dont you have an existing one to measure ??


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## goldstar31 (Dec 16, 2017)

bazmak said:


> A little more info would be good If its for a horizontal mill then the cutter with 22mm bore will be too small for the arbor shaft ??


 
I'm in agreement with Barry because MY quite large selection of gear cutters have a 1" bore.

If I'm right, one is stamped VAP which probably suggests a modestly important firm called Vickers Armstrong's, Scotswood or Elswick I know not.

Supplier ESC Ltd- no less!

But Heigh Ho, eh?
Norm


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## xpylonracer (Dec 17, 2017)

Some European made cutters for Emco were MOD type with 16mm bore, this applies to cutters up to 1.5 MOD.

xpylonracer


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## ThomasSK (Dec 17, 2017)

22mm is common for module (metric) cutters in the range 1-3M.  DP cutter (Imperial) have different bore sizes, altough some comming from china has metric bores. Quite nice for us who don't do much imperial, and don't want to stock a set of holders for those as well.

16mm bore cutters are used in the range 0.5-0.8M. Proxxon in germany has a simple holder (par no 24 425) for those fairly cheap, that can be replicated fairly easy. A picture  of it can be found a bit down on this page: http://micro-machine-shop.com/gears.htm

It easy to make a holder like the proxxon, or you can use a appropriate shell mill holder, by modifiying one of the driving dogs, and making a spacer to go on the end to hold it in place. 

Thomas.


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## Mechanicboy (Dec 17, 2017)

ThomasSK said:


> 22mm is common for module (metric) cutters in the range 1-3M.  DP cutter (Imperial) have different bore sizes, altough some comming from china has metric bores. Quite nice for us who don't do much imperial, and don't want to stock a set of holders for those as well.
> 
> Thomas.




Not all module gear cutter has 22 mm/16 mm diameter bore. Modul 1, Modul 0,75 and Modul 0,5 has 1" diameter bore. See this link who has 1" diameter bore in module gear cutter.

https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/INVOLUTE_GEAR_CUTTERS__SET_S_AND_INDIVIDUAL_.html 

Better to make own milling arbor to fit the gearcutter and fasten on ER32 collet or similiar collet.


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## ThomasSK (Dec 17, 2017)

Mechanicboy said:


> Not all module gear cutter has 22 mm/16 mm diameter bore. Modul 1, Modul 0,75 and Modul 0,5 has 1" diameter bore. See this link who has 1" diameter bore in module gear cutter.



Actualy, there is a DIN standard (EU norm) for those holes, DIN 58410 if I remember correctly. And that standard being of German orgin, I'm willing to bet there isn't a inch in it anywhere. A interesting thing is that former sovjet cutters also seems to follow this standard. Those cutters can be found on the surplus market, and are of better quality than similar priced chinese cutters.

That said, making the arbor to fit the cutter is the only reasonable approach if one wants to get something made with them.


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## Mechanicboy (Dec 17, 2017)

ThomasSK said:


> A interesting thing is that former sovjet cutters also seems to follow this standard. Those cutters can be found on the surplus market, and are of better quality than similar priced chinese cutters.



I has the set of gear cutter 0,8 module with 16 mm diameter bore, made in former Soviet. Steel is of good quality. 

The standard was GOST/&#1043;&#1054;&#1057;&#1058;.  GOST standards were originally developed by the government of the Soviet Union as part of its national standardization strategy. The word GOST (Russian: &#1043;&#1054;&#1057;&#1058 is an acronym for gosudarstvennyy standart (Russian: &#1075;&#1086;&#1089;&#1091;&#1076;&#1072;&#1088;&#1089;&#1090;&#1074;&#1077;&#1085;&#1085;&#1099;&#1081; &#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;&#1076;&#1072;&#1088;&#1090, which means state standard.

They are now administered by the Euro-Asian Council for Standardization, Metrology and Certification (EASC), a standards organization chartered by the Commonwealth of Independent States.

When i was in Ukraine, there was not inches in caliper ruler, steel ruler etc, millimetre only. When i told father-in-law about inches (he worked in Dnepr motorcycle factory/KMZ in 13 year) , he never knew about imperial measurements.


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## wesley (Dec 17, 2017)

Thanks for the replys, yes l am not very clear,my mill takes a nt41 taper tool holder,for milling l use a clarkson holder,but want to make up some holders for gear cutting and slitting saw work,l no that the gear cutters fit on a parallel shaft with a key,what l was after was the dimension of the spacers ie width and how long is the threaded bit on the shaft and the length of the complete parallel shaft that like a shop made holder, my cutters wont be here for a few weeks and was hoping to get the holder made in advance ,hope this makes more sence,and l may as well make a holder to take 1" bore cutters at the same time.As for getting hold of a tooll holder with the taper l need is not easy,did find one but the cost they wanted for it was just dam silly.
        thanks wes


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## Mechanicboy (Dec 17, 2017)

wesley said:


> no that the gear cutters fit on a parallel shaft with a key,what l was after was the dimension of the spacers ie width and how long is the threaded bit on the shaft and the length of the complete parallel shaft that like a shop made holder, my cutters



Wesley, the length of nut is not critical. I used the standard nut M8 to hold the milling cutter who has 16 mm shaft. No key on shaft. For a big cutter, the key is necessary. See at my homemade milling machine.. 

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcG9Eoyf9aI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcG9Eoyf9aI[/ame]


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## wesley (Dec 17, 2017)

Great machine you have made there,very good work ,can se what you mean now,will make some blanks with the taper l need then finish off when l have the cutters to hand,many thanks


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## Wizard69 (Dec 17, 2017)

Isn't that pretty much up to you?    It isn't uncommon on such arbors to have a number of spacer rings to accomodate various cutter thicknesses.   There isn't much difference here between a slitting saw arbor and an arbor for a gear cutter.   Generally for a vertical mill you keep the arbors short for reasons of deflection yet it is a good idea to have flexibility in length to achieve clearances.  

In a nut shell your question is hard to deal with as any answer will be correct sonetime!!   Even the discussions about the keyway are variable though i would suggest a properly sized key is an advantage.  



wesley said:


> Thanks for the replys, yes l am not very clear,my mill takes a nt41 taper tool holder,for milling l use a clarkson holder,but want to make up some holders for gear cutting and slitting saw work,l no that the gear cutters fit on a parallel shaft with a key,what l was after was the dimension of the spacers ie width and how long is the threaded bit on the shaft and the length of the complete parallel shaft that like a shop made holder, my cutters wont be here for a few weeks and was hoping to get the holder made in advance ,hope this makes more sence,and l may as well make a holder to take 1" bore cutters at the same time.As for getting hold of a tooll holder with the taper l need is not easy,did find one but the cost they wanted for it was just dam silly.
> 
> thanks wes


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## wesley (Dec 18, 2017)

well thanks every body,to be honest l hope l have not been a pain here over this subject,making the holder am clear about now ,as for the gear cutters well went and looked at past posts on gear cutting etc and have come to the thinking that l am on the wrong track,metric gear cutting set wont do me any good,so have stopped the order , the gears that l want to make are of 48 dp and with the amount that l am wanting to cut , l may as well make my own cutter set  or l may be better off cutting them with a single point fly cutter that a lot on here seem to favour for the shallow 48 dp gear set up,dam have a lot to learn,but will get there.
          wes


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## RM-MN (Dec 18, 2017)

Have you considered using this approach?  Read through the thread in the first link, then the second.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=27221

http://www.helicron.net/workshop/gearcutting/gear_cutter/


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## kiwi2 (Dec 19, 2017)

Hi, 
    Here are some pictures of the holder I made for 22mm gear cutters. Sorry for the quality - my phone is not great at closeups. I made it by brazing a short length of 5/8" (16mm) steel to a piece of 1 1/4" (32mm) steel. The 22mm section which fits into the cutter needs to be strictly in line with the 5/8" section or the cutter won't cut with all it's teeth. I made sure of this by holding the 5/8" section in a collet that I knew to be running true. If you don't have this, it's better to start with a longer length of 1 1/4" steel and turn both the 16mm and 22mm sections between cenres to ensure they are concentric. The 22mm section needs to be a snug fit in the cutter so it would be best to wait till you have the cutter before making the holder.
With the forces encountered on our small mills, I've never had a problem with the cutter spinning in the holder even though I haven't provided a keyway.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Alan C.


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## kiwi2 (Dec 19, 2017)

Sorry,
         I forgot to say that the 5/8" section is held in a collet on the mill.


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## wesley (Dec 19, 2017)

Great pictures very helpful,and to baron who has helped me with the gear cutter and made my mind a lot clearer on this subject now,with this forum l dont feel that l am on my own,yes l have a lot to learn ,but you make make easier .
            many thanks to you all.
          wes


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## bazmak (Dec 19, 2017)

Just a stab in the dark,but is it possible to make an adaptor for your
spindle mount to take R8 or MT then you fit a larger selection of 
tooling available cheaply for those more common fitting


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## bazmak (Dec 19, 2017)

Just had a quick look on the net and the NT40 taper seems to be
a simple 16.26o taper to 1 3/4" large diameter with a drawbar
Plenty of meat to machine out for an R8 or MT. I remember many
years ago making such adators for various tooling It should not be too difficult
An interesting exercise maybe


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## BaronJ (Dec 20, 2017)

Hi Guys, Barry,

I've searched the net for "NT41" taper tool holders, I'm not even sure that they exist, but "NT40" are very common !  I seem to recall seeing an "NT40" tool holder adaptor with an "R8" socket, there was a modified drawbar that went right through the adaptor.

I did recommend to Wesley that he took his tool holder to a local engineering firm and ask them to have a look, or even borrow an "NT40" one to try on his machine.


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