# John Deere Engine



## cfellows (May 10, 2008)

I've started another engine. I'm redoing the John Deere model that shows up on my posts. The original engine, powered by air, never worked the way I'd like, so I sold it. The crank throws were 90 degrees apart and it "fired" twice on each revolution. The exhaust was a hole at the bottom of each cylinder and the only the intake valve was operated by the cam.

My new engine will also have a cam operated input valve, but the exhaust will be through the sliding exhaust piston I originated. Also, the cam will operate at half the speed of the crank, so it will sound like true four stroke operation. Here's some pictures of my start:

This is the beginning of the crank. I've got it mounted between centers and driven by a machinist clamp.







Here's another picture. You can see the slits I cut parallel to the crank to relieve stress in the cold formed steel.






Here you can see the holes that are required for the three centers needed to turn the two connecting rod journals and the main crank journal.






Here, I've cut off the excess pieces and am getting ready to turn the crank journals.






This is the finished crank and the block with the cylinders bored and honed. The bore is a little over 3/4" and the stroke will be 7/8"






More to come...
Chuck


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## bretk (May 10, 2008)

Chuck,

 Thanks for starting this post, I have always been interested in doing an IC engine but always a bit afraid of the complexity as opposed to the "simple" steam engine.

Watching with Intrest , Bret


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## rake60 (May 10, 2008)

You have my attention Chuck.

I'm looking forward to seeing the progress.

Rick


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## chuck foster (May 10, 2008)

looking good chuck 8) ...........just like rick i will be watching this one.

hows the three cylinder fairbanks coming 
chuck (the other chuck)


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## cfellows (May 10, 2008)

bretk  said:
			
		

> Chuck,
> 
> Thanks for starting this post, I have always been interested in doing an IC engine but always a bit afraid of the complexity as opposed to the "simple" steam engine.
> 
> Watching with Intrest , Bret



Hope I didn't mislead you, Bret. This will be a compressed air powered engine that will simulate IC operation.

Chuck


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## cfellows (May 12, 2008)

Probably most of the group won't find this picture too exciting, but it does represent, by far, the largest silver soldering job I've ever done, and I'm quite pleased with the results. I probably used more solder than I needed to, but I did get a good, solid bond all the way around. This is the crankcase for my John Deere engine, by the way.

I started by cleaning the surfaces completely, then coating both surfaces with flux. Then I clamped the flat end into the bench vise and set the square tubing down on top of it. I placed a 3/8" piece of solder on the bottom plate next to each of the four sides of the square tubing. Then, I used my ox-acetylene torch to heat the plate from the bottom. I got each edge, in turn, red hot and when that piece of solder melted, then I went to the next on, and so on. Really worked a lot slicker than I would have imagined. 

Now, what's the best way to remove the black coloration?


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## cfellows (May 13, 2008)

Here's another picture of the crankcase, a lot closer to being finished. I had to mill all the sides square, so that took care of the discoloration from soldering.






The holes in each end of the crankcase are 1.25" diameter. They are spaced .875" from the bottom and the back of the crankcase as pictured.


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## kuhncw (May 13, 2008)

Nice job on the crankcase, Chuck. I'm enjoying the photos of your Deere build.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


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## Alphawolf45 (May 13, 2008)

Why the first several pictures not showing up for me , just a red X?
.
 I want to see picture or drawing of what this build 'sposed to look like when finished.How big will it be?
.
 That silver solder job turned out very nice..I'da boogered it up fo'sure. :bow:


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## cfellows (May 13, 2008)

Oops, I moved them to new directory on Photobucket. Will fix that in a bit.


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## cfellows (May 13, 2008)

Here are some drawings of the cylinder and the head showing how the valving will work.

This is the exhaust stroke. As long as the inlet (ball bearing) valve is closed, the spring will hold the sliding piston valve (blue) in the position shown. This allows the air to enter and exit the cylinder through the exhaust port.






Here is the power stroke. When the rocker arm pushed down on the straight rod, the end of the straight rod, which is rounded, pushes laterally on the ball bearing causing it to open. This lets in the high pressure compressed air which, in turn, pushes the sliding pistong upward, exposing the cylinder port to the inlet and simultaneously closing off the exhaust port.






This valve arrangement will work equally well for 2 stroke, 4 stroke, 6 stroke, or hit n miss operation.

Chuck


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## Brass_Machine (May 13, 2008)

Nice job Chuck. I like how the crankcase is coming out.

Eric


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## bretk (May 13, 2008)

Chuck,

 Thanks for de-mystifying the valving ! :bow:

-Bret


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## CallMeAL (May 13, 2008)

Nice pictures and diagrams. Intersting valve arrangement, I am looking forward to future reports.


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## gilessim (May 14, 2008)

Nice work there Chuck, looking good!, now I can see how you worked out the Halo valve system, nice diagrams ,very helpful!

Giles


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## cfellows (May 14, 2008)

gilessim  said:
			
		

> Nice work there Chuck, looking good!, now I can see how you worked out the Halo valve system, nice diagrams ,very helpful!
> 
> Giles



I've not actually seen drawings or a description of the Halo valve system. However, looking at pictures of the Halo, I think my intake valve using the ball bearing is similar. The exhaust system on my engine, using the sliding piston valve, is my own design.

Chuck


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## Bogstandard (May 14, 2008)

And I can confirm, a great design.

Lookin' real good Chuck.

John


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## BobWarfield (May 14, 2008)

Nice work!

I've got to do some silver soldering on a project one of these days. Long ago I used to make some jewelry silversmithing, so I know it isn't too hard. Did some lost wax casting too.

I don't know if you guys have seen John Bentley's site (The "Engineman") but he accomplishes a lot via silver solder in the way of making what look like complex castings. Flywheels and machine bases seem to be a staple and they come out looking great from an assemblage of bar stock pieces.

Cheers,

BW


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## cfellows (May 14, 2008)

Got some more machining done on the cylinder block tonight. The cylinder block is 2" wide, 1.25" thick, and 1.75" tall. The milled slot is 1/8" deep and 1/2" wide. I'm a little concerned that I've gotten the crankcase material a little too thin. May have to silver solder a piece onto the cylinder side of the crankcase so I have a little more meat to screw the cylinder block to.


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## cfellows (May 16, 2008)

More progress tonight. I finished the crankshaft bearing housings (is that what you call them?) tonight. The one on the right is domed as it will be the flywheel side. The other side is flat since that will be the camshaft gear side. The ball bearing races are 1/2" OD and 1/4" ID.

Flywheel Side





Cam Gear Side






























The Bearing Housings will be attached to the crankcase with screws into threaded holes





Chuck


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## Bogstandard (May 16, 2008)

Chuck,

That is really looking remarkably good.

If I was you, I wouldn't worry about the thin skin that the cylinders are going to mount to. If you have room, just put a tapped backing plate on the inside of the crankcase, to sandwich the case between the cylinder block and backplate. The strength will then come from the joints and curvatures in the crankcase itself. You might have to open up the access hole a little to let you get the backplate inside. Or maybe two tapped strips if you can't get the hole big enough. Just a suggestion by the way. Don't want you ruining all your great work with a slip of a blowtorch, trying to get the plate a bit thicker.

John


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## cfellows (May 16, 2008)

Thanks, John! Since space inside the crankcase is going to be kind of tight, I'm thinking I'll just use nuts on the inside. The skin, which is .045" thick, should be thick enough since this will be powered by compressed air and will be a slow runner.

Chuck


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## cfellows (May 20, 2008)

A little more progress. I got the pistons turned down to size... still have to hollow them out and drill holes for the wrist pins. Also finished making the connecting rods tonight.







Chuck


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## cfellows (Jun 1, 2008)

I finished the design of the head and started cutting metal again today. This engine will have an overhead valve, similar to the JD engine which is my avatar. However, since the valving is quite different, the internals of the head will also be different.

Normally I drill the exhaust port which contains the sliding piston valve dead center on the poppet valve assembly. However, since this will be an overhead valve, the valve push rod would interfere with the exhaust manifold and pipe. Therefore, I moved the exhaust port in toward the center, out of the way of the push rod. The exhaust port hole, which is 3/16" diameter, enters the valve assembly hole tangentially, overlapping enough to create an opening into the valve assembly hole. You can kind of see the half moon shaped hole where in the accompanying pictures. 











In this picture you can see the two exhaust ports which will come out the top of the head in the assembled engine.






And finally, this shows the two holes on the opposite face which will let air into and out of the cylinder.






I will be using 3/16 hardened stainless steel balls for the sliding valves instead of my usual piston shape. My thought is that as the ball passes over the hole into the cylinder, some of the air will pass around the ball and out through the exhaust, adding a little extra pop when it "fires".

Chuck


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## chuck foster (Jun 1, 2008)

looking good chuck 8) ;D

can't wait to see some video of it running.

chuck


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## cfellows (Jun 1, 2008)

chuck foster  said:
			
		

> looking good chuck 8) ;D
> 
> can't wait to see some video of it running.



Thanks, Chuck. What's the story on the v-twin engine you have as an avatar?

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jun 1, 2008)

I'm going to try something different on the cam gears to avoid a big cam gear. I'm going to use a double reduction gear set, the first being 3:4 ratio and the second being 2:3 for an overall ratio of 1:2. 

By the way, I figured out a way to have a cam concentric with the crankshaft, but running at one half the speed, without planetary gears. Use a double reduction gear set, primary driving gear of 14 teeth on the crank, primary driven gear of 21 teeth, secondary driving gear of 15 teeth, and final driven gear, free spinning on the crankshaft, of 20 teeth. I figured this out for a radial engine design.

Only problem is, in a 3 cylinder radial, the cam has to rotate in the opposite direction of crank and with this set up, both cam and crank rotate in the same direction. 

Chuck


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## Brass_Machine (Jun 1, 2008)

Chuck... That is looking great. You gots skillz!




			
				cfellows  said:
			
		

> Thanks, Chuck. What's the story on the v-twin engine you have as an avatar?
> 
> Chuck



Yeah... I wanna know too!

Eric


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## chuck foster (Jun 2, 2008)

gee whizz i thought i could sneak in a new avatar and it would go unnoticed for a day or two  :big:

will i finished the standby engine that was mentioned on here and i have been watching the build progress of mr fellows
john deere engine and the drawings for his hit and miss style engine. so with that in mind i thought i just have to try
building one! ;D

i have always wanted a vee twin of some kind so that is what i started on saturday morning.
it has 3/4" bores and the stroke will be 1 1/8" and the crank rotates on ball bearings.




to be honest at this point i'm not sure if it will be a compressed air engine or a gas engine ???
it will most likely be a compressed air engine but one never knows.

if it works ok on air i might just try turning the v8 block i have into an air engine as well.

i think i will use a small pin on the top of the piston to lift the check ball in the cylinder head (to allow the compressed air in to the cylinder).

well thats the story on the avatar pic.

thanks for the intrest, i will start another post to show the progress if anyone would like to see the build .

chuck


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## Brass_Machine (Jun 3, 2008)

chuck foster  said:
			
		

> gee whizz i thought i could sneak in a new avatar and it would go unnoticed for a day or two  :big:
> 
> ....
> 
> ...



Hey Chuck... Nothing gets by us ;D

Please start a new thread on this engine. I for one would be very interested in seeing it.

Thanks
Eric


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## cfellows (Jun 3, 2008)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Hey Chuck... Nothing gets by us ;D
> 
> Please start a new thread on this engine. I for one would be very interested in seeing it.
> 
> ...



I second that! A V-twin running on compressed air is also on my list of to-build engines!

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jun 5, 2008)

Some more progress this evening. I got started on the overhead valve assemblies. Although this engine uses the same basic principle as the horizontal single, it has the overhead valve which complicates things some. Here is what they look like in the head (sans screws).






Here they are outside the head. You can see the 1/8" hole that ports the high pressure air into the passage in the head when the valve is open. The valve will be made from 1/4" drill rod and the valve stem will be 3/32" in diameter. The groove is for an o-ring, or more specifically, buna quad-rings, to keep the high pressure air contained when the valve is closed.






The valve assemblies are held in the head by 2-56 socket head cap screws.

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jun 8, 2008)

Thought I'd post a few more picture so folks wouldn't think I've been slack all weekend! ;D 

I pretty much finished up the head and the valve assemblies. Next I expect to tackle the camshaft, timing gears, and rocker arm assemblies.





















I think it needs a larger flywheel. This one, at 3", seems a bit small. I'm thinking 3.25" or even 3.5" diameter.

Chuck


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## bretk (Jun 8, 2008)

Chuck,

Lookin' good! I think 3.25 might do'er juust fine! :big: That overhead valve is really nice, what a great piece of imagineering Walt Disney would have been proud. ;D

-Bret


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## cfellows (Jun 9, 2008)

I love it when a plan comes together! To make a bigger flywheel, I cut a 5/8" long piece of steel tube that was about 3.5" in diameter and about .050" smaller than the flywheel I had made. I bored out the inside of the tube to about .010" smaller than my flywheel, to a depth about the thickness of the flywheel. I then heated it until it turned blue, then dropped the existing flywheel into the ring. Very close fit, so when it cools, it should be nice and tight.

Here's a pic taken just a few minutes after I dropped they flywheel into the ring. I used an expanding mandrel for a handle.






When I face it off, it will look like all one piece.


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## bretk (Jun 12, 2008)

Chuck,

 That looks great, That is exactly what we did when we renewed the steel tires on our steam locomotive.

-Bret


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## cfellows (Jun 23, 2008)

Got a little more work done on the JD engine. Installed the Camshaft bearings and the valve lifter guides (Brass). I also finished the primary timing gear. I made it from 9 tooth, 24 pitch pinion wire from Stock Drive Products. I made a hub for it, turned down part of the gear and pressed it into the hub. Pinion wire is basically a pinion gear that can be ordered in 12", 24" or longer lengths. You simply cut of the amount you need for your gear, bore a hole through it, and figure out how you are going to attach it to the shaft. I will use a set screw in the collar.






Chuck


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## Brass_Machine (Jun 23, 2008)

Looking good Chuck. I am really digging this JD engine. Keep it coming!

Eric


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## lathe nut (Jun 26, 2008)

Chuck, been doing copy and past in a Word Document, got all the picture and the write up when you are doing I am going to do one, thanks for sharing how about even more pictures while you are milling on or on the lathe, thanks so much, Lathe Nut


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## chiliviking (Jun 26, 2008)

This is an amazing piece of work. I am in awe of the genius of the folks on this board. Keep the photo's coming.


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## rake60 (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm loving the progess reports Chuck!

Keep them coming!

Rick


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## cfellows (Jul 23, 2008)

I've been making a little more progress. Here are some pictures of the mostly assembled engine:






















Once I get it running, I'll take it apart and paint it.

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jul 23, 2008)

I've been working on the air regulation design for several months now. The pistons on this engine are 180 degrees apart and operate in four stroke mode. This means that the engine fires twice in pretty quick succession then coasts for a full revolution before firing again.

The problem with a single valve to regulate the air is this. When the first piston fires, it uses up most of the pressure that has built up during the previous full revolution. When the second piston fires, there is no pressure left because its all been used up by the first piston. This wouldn't be a problem where all the pistons fire at even intervals during the cycles.

To get around the problem, I decided to use two regulators, one for each cylinder. That way, when one piston "fires", it won't use up all the press from the other side. At least that's the theory. Still got some work to do to get it running.

These regulators were made from 1/4" tee's with compression fittings. I drilled out the long side, then soldered in a brass rod which had been step drilled and threaded. The single leg of each tee will connect to the air inlet on the engine and the end opposite the control shaft will go to the high pressure air supply.


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## lugnut (Jul 24, 2008)

Very Very nice Chuck, that is one very nice little engine. Can't wait to see and here it run. Thanks for sharing it with us. Who do you buy your Pinion wire from?
Mel


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## cfellows (Jul 24, 2008)

lugnut  said:
			
		

> Who do you buy your Pinion wire from?
> Mel



Stock Drive Products - https://sdp-si.com/eStore/ 

They also have a large selection of gears and sprockets and will sell in small volumes.

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jul 27, 2008)

Well, here's a preview of the almost finished engine running. I still have to take it apart and finish painting it. I also need to figure out how to get the aspect ratio right on the video. Anybody got any ideas on that?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Hcl9L9wlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Hcl9L9wlY[/ame]

Chuck


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## ksouers (Jul 27, 2008)

That's a nice smooth running engine there, Chuck.
Nice job. It even sounds like an old JD "putt-putt" motor


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## Powder keg (Jul 27, 2008)

Great show Chuck! Runs real good. 

Wes


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## Brass_Machine (Jul 27, 2008)

Wait...

Is this a compressed air engine?? For some reason I thought it was going to be IC. Maybe it was the JD influence.

Very cool build. Even cool now!

Eric


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## Bogstandard (Jul 28, 2008)

As usual Chuck,

Great runner and looker.

A wonderful job.

John


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## GailInNM (Jul 28, 2008)

Very nice Chuck. Great looking and great sound. 
If you put a load on it and crank the pressure up I would bet that it would sound just like a "Poppin Johnny" working in the field. Sounds like one heading out to work now, and that's a great sound. 
Congratulations on a well thought out design and implementation. 
Gail in NM,USA


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## rake60 (Jul 28, 2008)

Being an antique engine collector as well as a hobby builder, I'm at a loss
for words here!

That is one fantastic engine Chuck! :bow:

Rick


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## cfellows (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks for all the kind words, folks. Still have some parts to finish and paint to apply, but I'm already thinking about my next engine. I'm kind of liking the idea of an Anzani radial that runs on compressed air... or maybe a 3 cylinder fairbanks look-alike...


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## CrewCab (Jul 28, 2008)

Chuck .............. just brilliant .............  8)  :bow:

CC


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## bretk (Jul 28, 2008)

Chuck,

Absolutely Fabulous! Very Nice Looks, Sound and a great runner too ;D :bow:

-Bret


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## Cedge (Jul 28, 2008)

Chuck
Having been around those old B model John Deeres, it sounds as if you scaled its sound down, right along with the physical size. All that's missing is the signature random backfire that the bigger B model always seemed to enjoy. Excellent work!!!

Steve


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## Alphawolf45 (Jul 28, 2008)

The video is unfortunately dark ..You will make another video? I'd like to see in from the ends with better light....But she sounds sweet dont she? You punched that one out quick.


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## lathe nut (Jul 28, 2008)

Chuck, love it and what a great job that is a lot of time that you have in it, I have been copy and posting, now I will go back a look, it there enough information on what you have already posted to make one from them or is there more needed, Love it, thanks for letting us see and learn, Lathe Nut


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## Brass_Machine (Jul 28, 2008)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the kind words, folks. Still have some parts to finish and paint to apply, but I'm already thinking about my next engine. I'm kind of liking the idea of an Anzani radial that runs on compressed air... or maybe a 3 cylinder fairbanks look-alike...



Anzani radial? Yer killing me Chuck. :big:


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## cfellows (Jul 29, 2008)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Anzani radial? Yer killing me Chuck. :big:



Might be a little beyond my abilities unless I want to make some castings!

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jul 30, 2008)

I painted and reassembled the engine. Here are a few still photos. I'll do another video later in the week.





































Chuck


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## NickG (Jul 30, 2008)

It's superb, just love the way it runs and the sound!


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## dave e (Jul 30, 2008)

Way purty. Congrats.

Dave


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## ronm (Jul 30, 2008)

I've been a JD mechanic for 35 years, & I have no idea what the hell an aspect ratio is... ...but I like the engine..sounds like a John Deere...good work.


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## cfellows (Jul 31, 2008)

ronm  said:
			
		

> I've been a JD mechanic for 35 years, & I have no idea what the hell an aspect ratio is... ...but I like the engine..sounds like a John Deere...good work.



Thanks, Ron. The video was shot in a wider format, but when I loaded it on my computer it made the video narrower than it should be. It basically makes everything look skinnier than it really is.

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks again, everyone for the compliments.

Chuck


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## Divided He ad (Jul 31, 2008)

Wow...... That really does sound like the real deal ;D Looks mighty fine too.

I saw your engine running and read the name and it sparked off the memory of the vid' I took last month, I hope you don't mind Chuck, I think this will show just how well your sound is to the real one! (the only difference... Yours doesn't miss fire  )

[ame]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz8MeyvmB9o[/ame]


I had never seen this type of engine before so I loved the sound and took a couple of photo's etc... Then you made a miniature one.... Fantastic ;D 




Ralph.


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## ronm (Jul 31, 2008)

Nice unstyled D, Ralph...I have to say, the ol' gent fueling it while it's running would get a severe warning from the safety police at our show-that's a no-no...


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## Divided He ad (Jul 31, 2008)

A no-no... Your not kiddin... You should have seen the flames coming out of the inlet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    
I was trying to get a good movie of the flames and then he just happily climbed up and starting fueling!! 
Hey he owns it, if he feels happy doing that I wasn't about to try to stop him... These Welsh farmer types can be pretty phlemy when they snarl at you in their native tounge  

I really did like the engine, got 2 stills of it too. 


Ralph.


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## putputman (Mar 4, 2009)

Hi Chuck, I have watched & listened to your JD video several times.
A couple days ago I was at a friends house when he had someone plowing snow for him. He was plowing with an older JD. As I watched and listened to that old JD, I thought of your engine. Today I watched your video again and you hit that sound right on. It is really a distinct sound.

I would like to try to build your engine. Do you have any plans or prints that you would be willing to share?


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## chuck foster (Mar 4, 2009)

yet again another great engine chuck :bow: Thm:

chuck


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 4, 2009)

Great looking job Chuck as my nic my imply I am a big JD fan. But I don't see any video links...did I miss something?


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## Maryak (Mar 4, 2009)

Chuck,

Beautiful engine :bow: :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Paolo (Mar 5, 2009)

Chuck,
Beautiful engine
Best regards
Paolo


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## rleete (Mar 5, 2009)

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Great looking job Chuck as my nic my imply I am a big JD fan. But I don't see any video links...did I miss something?



Previous page.


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## cfellows (Mar 5, 2009)

putputman  said:
			
		

> I would like to try to build your engine. Do you have any plans or prints that you would be willing to share?



I don't have a formal set of drawings for this engine, but might be able to pull together some of my working drawings.

The old John Deere engines, were two cylinder horizontal inline designs. To greatly reduce vibration, the crankshaft throws are 180 degrees apart. Since the engine is four-stroke in operation, the engine fires twice, at 180 degree intervals, during 1 revolution, then coasts during the entire second revolution. This is what causes the syncopated sound when the engine is running. Here is the Youtube video of my engine running:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Hcl9L9wlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Hcl9L9wlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Hcl9L9wlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Hcl9L9wlY[/ame]

Other tractors and engines that use the same two cylinder firing pattern are the Waterloo Boy:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9u-aRxrsHY&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9u-aRxrsHY&feature=related[/ame]

Rumely Oil Pull: 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUgUTyfiWU&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoUgUTyfiWU&feature=related[/ame]

The two cylinder Lister engine (Video is a Lister Clone): 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxaX74yHlg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxaX74yHlg[/ame]

And a rare old tractor called the Pull Sleve (love this one):

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfOh29_np4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfOh29_np4[/ame]

I'm sure there are a number of others, but these are the main ones that I've found.

Chuck


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## dreeves (Mar 5, 2009)

Chuck,

Looking good. You are making it to easy for everyone. I had to make the engine with a few pictures and a few drawing you provided me.

Here is my engine


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## cfellows (Mar 5, 2009)

Hey, Dave, that's looking good. Looks more like the first JD engine I built (My Avatar). I see that you put the timing gears inside the crankcase - I like that. I'm a little puzzled by the valve arrangement. What are those brass tubes coming out the side of the valve assembly? It looks like you are using a sliding piston exhaust valve arrangement. Where is the exhaust?

Chuck


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## dreeves (Mar 5, 2009)

Chuck, yes I am using the slide valve. The exhaust comes out between the cylinders. You shouls be able to see the holre on the top of teh cylinder,.The the tubes that are on the side of the heads are the airtubes to get air to the valve. I did not want to make it that way but there is little room in the head. I am going to remake the head to use the ball type you are using. I will try to post a picture of the head so you can see the way I made things.


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## dreeves (Mar 5, 2009)

Here is how I made the Head. 









The cad shot shows the head cut along the center of the intake and the exhaus. The left head part shows the rear section of the head which holds the slide valve. The bottom was pluged after the valve and spring were installed. 

the right one is the intake which lives in the front half of the head. The holes go to the center of the two secondary heads which hold the valve. The valve opens and lets the air behind the valve and into that tube that chuck asked about. the second picture shows the setup so you can see how little room there is in the head. there are 22 holes are in the head.


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## cfellows (Mar 5, 2009)

Dave, 

Hopefully you'll agree "Better late than never"! Here are some drawings of the head on my last JD Engine. The 3d view only shows one side. The other side is a mirror image.







Drawing:






These things are hard to visualize and even harder to draw. By the way, My engine uses a 3/16" ball bearing for the slave valve. It also only has 1 hole into the cylinder, not 2.

I'll draw up the valve assembly next, although you can probably imagine how it works.

Chuck


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## te_gui (Mar 6, 2009)

I have some additional info on one of the tractors in your videos. The bottom one is a Sampson Sieve Grip. That one is a single cylinder version, they also made a 4 cylinder a little later on. That old boy driving the tractor (Bill), his dad bought it new and they farmed with it around Chico, CA. Bill now is in his 90s and needs a little help starting it, but once its going he is off. He has sold the tractor to my good buddy Buzz Stetler. The agreement is that Buzz bought it but Bill keeps it until he dies or is tired of playing with it. If Buzz dies first, Bill keeps the tractor and the money. Bill didnt tell Buzz til after the deal went down that his parents both lived til over 100. We had a good laugh over that one.

Im not a John Deere expert, but I thought the early ones had the crank throws at 90 degrees? I know the Rumely's are 180 apart, have worked on a few of them.


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## cfellows (Mar 6, 2009)

te_gui  said:
			
		

> I have some additional info on one of the tractors in your videos. The bottom one is a Sampson Sieve Grip. That one is a single cylinder version, they also made a 4 cylinder a little later on. That old boy driving the tractor (Bill), his dad bought it new and they farmed with it around Chico, CA. Bill now is in his 90s and needs a little help starting it, but once its going he is off. He has sold the tractor to my good buddy Buzz Stetler. The agreement is that Buzz bought it but Bill keeps it until he dies or is tired of playing with it. If Buzz dies first, Bill keeps the tractor and the money. Bill didnt tell Buzz til after the deal went down that his parents both lived til over 100. We had a good laugh over that one.
> 
> Im not a John Deere expert, but I thought the early ones had the crank throws at 90 degrees? I know the Rumely's are 180 apart, have worked on a few of them.



Thanks for that information on the Sampson Sieve Grip. I hadn't been able to find any other information on it. Now that you tell me it's a single cylinder, it's more obvkous by listening to the video again. Neat old tractor!

The John Deere is indeed 180 degrees apart, just like the Rumely and the Waterloo Boy's. Sure wish I had the space (and the extra money) for an old John Deere D. Love those old tractors.

Chuck


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## putputman (Mar 20, 2009)

I finally finished my copy of "Chuck Fellows John Deere". I am really tickled with it and love the John Deere sound. It actually sounds better in the shop than on the video. I am using a little Sony digital camera and the sounds distorts somewhat.

I want to thank Chuck for the photos and sketches.


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## cfellows (Mar 20, 2009)

Dang! Looks and sounds real good. Did you put an air balancing control between the two cylinders?

Chuck


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## 90LX_Notch (Mar 20, 2009)

Congrats putputman. Nice job!


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## BMyers (Mar 20, 2009)

NICE ! :bow:


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## putputman (Mar 20, 2009)

Chuck, I thought I would try a large air supply right up to the valves, so I run two 1/4 copper tubes on the bottom. It seems to work OK.


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## itowbig (Mar 21, 2009)

love that. sounds great


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## Maryak (Mar 21, 2009)

Fantastic. :bow: :bow: :bow:

Love the sound - If the video is distorted it must be really great in the flesh.

Best Regards
Bob


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## radfordc (Mar 29, 2009)

Chuck, I'm very interested in your engine. Enough so that I'm trying to draw up a set of plans so that I can try to build one. I'm confused about the valve operation. On page 1 you posted drawings of your valve system. On page 3 you show pictures of the overhead valve assembly. I can't seem to make sense of how it works....I understand the drawings, but the pictures seem to show something completely different?

Charlie


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## cfellows (Mar 29, 2009)

Charlie, you are right, in the end, I didn't use the valves in the drawings, but rather defaulted to my previously used poppet valves. 

I've got some other pictures and drawings I can scare up.

Chuck


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## kuhncw (Mar 29, 2009)

I'll be looking forward to your additional drawings and photos as well.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


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## cfellows (Mar 29, 2009)

Here is a drawing of the valve assembly. Two of these required.


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## cfellows (Mar 29, 2009)

This is a picture of the head from the top. The valve assemblies fit into the two large holes. The hole in the side of the valve assemblies matches up with the interference holes from the exhaust holes, which you can see coming out the side of the picture.


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## cfellows (Mar 29, 2009)

Here are pictures of the head from the bottom (cylinder) side. The holes in the face of the head lead from the cylinder into the exhaust holes. 
Refer to the drawings in Reply #80 of this thread for some drawings of the head only.

I'll try to get some detail drawings of the head and the valve operation in the next couple of days.

Chuck


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## cfellows (Mar 30, 2009)

OK, Here's the drawings of the head:


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## radfordc (Mar 30, 2009)

OK, now I see! That poppet valve works exactly backwards to the way that I was thinking. A ball bearing and spring fit into the exhaust passage, right.

Charlie


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## radfordc (Apr 6, 2009)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> I'm going to try something different on the cam gears to avoid a big cam gear. I'm going to use a double reduction gear set, the first being 3:4 ratio and the second being 2:3 for an overall ratio of 1:2.
> Chuck



Chuck, looking at the gears, it seems that as long as the pinon gear and the cam gear have a ratio of 1:2 it doesn't matter how many teeth the middle gear has...it's just an idler. I'm looking for the best source of gears. SDP has the right gears, but the prices aren't so nice.

I milled the crankcase from a solid block of aluminum this weekend. It looked like an aluminum snow storm in the shop! I then made the camshaft. I machined each cam separately and soldered them to a 1/8" drill rod shaft. How much lift did you build into your cams? I've got .090" now, but the cam profile looks wrong. The angle of the cam against the pushrod looks too steep. I've either got to make the cam diameter larger or lower the lift.

Charlie


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## cfellows (Apr 6, 2009)

Charlie,

You're right, the number of teeth on the idler gear is irrelevant. I used 24 pitch, 9 tooth pinion wire for the primary gear which I bought from SDP. This is a 12" length of pinion gear with no center hole. You cut of the length you need and bore your own center hole.  I cut mine long, then turned down a shoulder for a set screw. The cam gear is an 18 tooth which I made myself.

A lift of .090" is about right. The rise, dwell, and fall aren't critical, although faster is better. Did you make lifters for the push rods to sit in? The lifters, as I recall, are 3/8" (maybe 5/16") diameter where they contact the cam and are shouldered down to 3/16" where they pass through the guides in the crankcase.

Let me know if that doesn't answer your questions... (lookin forward to pictures!)

Chuck


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## radfordc (Apr 7, 2009)

It looks like I can use the cheap 48 pitch spur gears from one of the R/C car suppliers. I'm looking at a 17 tooth pinon and a 34 tooth cam gear with an idler of the right size to fit between. These gears seem to have about the right diameters to fit.

I had not given proper thought to needing lifters for the pushrods. I was thinking of just polishing the ends of the pushrods to run directly on the cam. Obviously, that's not a great idea. I will make up a set of lifters.

I will post a picture of what I have so far. I'm a long way from done. I started on the crankshaft last night. I cut out the crankshaft blank from a 1.5" diameter steel rod...that was a chore. Hope I don't mess up when turning the crank as I don't want to have to do that again!

Charlie


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## cfellows (Apr 7, 2009)

If that's a 1 1/2" diameter round rod, you're going to have a lot of swarf by the time you get a crankshaft carved out of it.  I used a piece of cold rolled steel, 1.25" x 3/8" for my crank. But, if that's what you've got on hand, that's what you use!

Chuck


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## radfordc (Apr 7, 2009)

Here is where I was two days ago. Tonight I did screw up the crankshaft so I'm starting over on that.


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## cfellows (Apr 8, 2009)

Nice work. Sorry about the crankshaft... they can be ornery! 

Chuck


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## radfordc (Apr 9, 2009)

OK, that's better!


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## cfellows (Apr 9, 2009)

Now you're cookin'! The crank is the trickiest part.

Chuck


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## radfordc (Apr 10, 2009)

What's strange is that I messed up the first crank and still don't know what I did wrong?

Instead of turning the rod journals between centers, I used an offset holding fixture (see picture attached). I drilled the offset hole exactly .437" off center...equal to the crank throw. When I started cutting the journal I found that the throw was much less than it was supposed to be...on the order of .250-.300". Afterward I went back and tried checking my setup and couldn't figure out what I did wrong as the test piece came out correct.

On the second crank I turned between centers and all came out as expected.

Charlie


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## radfordc (Apr 10, 2009)

Finished the bearing mounts.


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## cfellows (Apr 11, 2009)

Nice progress. Did you use CNC to mill out the block? You did a nice job.

Chuck


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## radfordc (Apr 11, 2009)

No CNC here, unfortunately. I used a drill to remove most of the material and then a 1/2" end mill to finish. I have DRO's on the mill which make it much easier to sneak up on a measurement.

Charlie


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## cfellows (Apr 11, 2009)

radfordc  said:
			
		

> No CNC here, unfortunately. I used a drill to remove most of the material and then a 1/2" end mill to finish. I have DRO's on the mill which make it much easier to sneak up on a measurement.
> 
> Charlie



Gotta get DRO on my mill! I keep thinking about it, but have just kept putting it off!


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## radfordc (Apr 11, 2009)

With the amount of backlash in my mill I wouldn't be able to work without the DROs. I bought digital quills from an ebay seller and mounted them myself. I think the cost for two quills (8" and 6") was only about $60 or so.


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## radfordc (Apr 12, 2009)

A little more accomplished today.


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## radfordc (Apr 16, 2009)

Completed the head, pistons, and rods.


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## cfellows (Apr 16, 2009)

Did you figure out where all the holes go?

Chuck


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## radfordc (Apr 17, 2009)

Yes. After you posted the info on the valve it all started making sense. I did goof up on the head the first time, but the second one turned out perfect.

Charlie


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## radfordc (Apr 19, 2009)

Some guys on another thread asked me to post the drawing I made of this engine. Its in the plans section.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (Apr 20, 2009)

radfordc  said:
			
		

> Some guys on another thread asked me to post the drawing I made of this engine. Its in the plans section.
> 
> Charlie



Hats off to Charlie. :bow:

Charlie, thank you for taking the time to provide drawings for a guy like me that doesn't have the necessary drafting skills or computer programs. With out this information building can be very difficult, and I imagine most builders would just scrap the project. 

I was able to down load-and-print the plans. 

 -MB


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## radfordc (Apr 22, 2009)

Finally got back to doing some work on the engine. After the NAMES show I had "honey do's" until tonight. The flywheel is finished.

Charlie


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## radfordc (Apr 27, 2009)

More work done this week. Got most of the fiddley bits done. The gears were purchased for $3 each from an R/C car supplier.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (Apr 27, 2009)

The motor is taking shape and looking good! :bow:

Can you give specific details on the gear train, and will you add this information later to the plans uploaded in repository?

Thanks. -MB


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## radfordc (Apr 28, 2009)

The gears were purchased from RC Hobbies Online http: //www.rchobbies.org/

They are Robinson Racing Products 48 pitch gears: http://www.robinsonracing.com/catalog/48pitchpinion.html

I used 17, 25, and 34 tooth gears.  Part# RRP1034, RRP1025, RRP1017

Once I finished the engine I will update the plans "as built" and include the gear info.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (Apr 28, 2009)

radfordc  said:
			
		

> The gears were purchased from RC Hobbies Online http: //www.rchobbies.org/
> 
> They are Robinson Racing Products 48 pitch gears: http://www.robinsonracing.com/catalog/48pitchpinion.html
> 
> ...



Thanks for the gear information Charlie. I will patiently wait for you final updates.

-MB


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## putputman (May 2, 2009)

Nice looking engine Charlie. Looking forward to the video and hearing that familiar JD sound. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## Metal Butcher (May 2, 2009)

Yea! It's looking mighty fine Charlie!
 :bow :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

As soon as you give the O.K. I'll start building mine.

-MB


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## cfellows (May 2, 2009)

Very nice work, Charlie. If she runs as great as she looks, it ought to be a winner!

By they way, did you install o-rings on the valve assemblies?

Chuck


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## radfordc (May 2, 2009)

Yes, I used the o-rings as you showed.


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## radfordc (May 2, 2009)

I posted the updated plans in the "Plans" section.



			
				Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Yea! It's looking mighty fine Charlie!
> :bow :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
> 
> As soon as you give the O.K. I'll start building mine.
> ...


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## radfordc (May 4, 2009)

She runs! I got the new engine running yesterday. I was having trouble getting the o-rings sealed. Turns out that I was cutting the o-ring when installing the valve in the head. I had to put a chamfer on the edge of the hole in the head so that the ring could get started properly.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (May 4, 2009)

radfordc  said:
			
		

> She runs! I got the new engine running yesterday. I was having trouble getting the o-rings sealed. Turns out that I was cutting the o-ring when installing the valve in the head. I had to put a chamfer on the edge of the hole in the head so that the ring could get started properly.
> 
> Charlie



Hip-hip-hooray! Hip-hip-hooray!

Congratulations on your success!

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

-MB


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## cfellows (May 4, 2009)

Glad to hear it Charlie... Congratulations.

By the way, are you running it with a pressure regulator or just limiting the amount of air with a ball valve or some such?

One problem I had with this engine was the fact that the two cylinders "fire" in quick succession, followed by a full revolution in between. When the first piston "fires", it uses up all the air in the line between the engine and the pressure regulating valve. There isn't much time for pressure to build back up before the second piston "fires". This results in uneven powere between the two cylinders, and also, uneven sound.

I overcame this on my engine by building a separate control valve for each cylinder so I could adjust the pressure to each cylinder independently. I just made simple needle valves with a slotted screw to adjust them. Once you get the pressure balanced between the two, you can then vary the engine speed with the main control valve without readjusting the balancing valves.

Chuck


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## radfordc (May 4, 2009)

No, I took the "easy" way out and just made the air supply tubes as large as possible to provide adequate volumn of air to the cylinders. However, I do notice the difference in sound between the two cylinders.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (May 4, 2009)

Would adjusting (restricting) the valve opening on the primary cylinder via the rocker adjusting screw do the trick?

I was thinking about tying that, or using a drilled plug (removable) on the primary side intake.

-MB


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## cfellows (May 4, 2009)

You can adjust the inlet valves to balance the pressure, but it doesn't seem to work as well, in my opinion. Your idea of a restricter plug might work well. You'd have to experiment with different size openings in it.

Chuck


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## radfordc (May 4, 2009)

Chuck, how much air pressure does your engine operate on? Mine just ticks over with 20 psi.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (May 4, 2009)

Hi Charlie. I know your question is directed towards Chuck. Being the designer he is defiantly more qualified than I to give you the correct answer. Your posted question reminded me I had a similar situation that might be worth mentioning. They are somewhat different in design, and that may-or-may not be significant.


Quote from one of my posts in My modified built of "Chucks Single":
The 3/4" long .020" exhaust valve spring was too stiff and required 20 psi to run the motor. I switched it to a ½ long .020" spring and it ran on 5 psi. Still not satisfied I tried a 3/4" long .016 spring and it ran on 2 psi! A motor that runs on low pressure is my goal and to me indicates a successful build. After a 15 minute break-in period it now runs well on 1psi every time.

The difference between the .020 wire 3/4" spring and the .016 wire 3/4" spring was about 19 psi for the motor to run. 
However, it could be something all together different

-MB


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## cfellows (May 5, 2009)

radfordc  said:
			
		

> Chuck, how much air pressure does your engine operate on? Mine just ticks over with 20 psi.
> 
> Charlie



Unfortunately, the engine is packed away since we are in the midst of selling our house. 

I usually control the engine speed with a simple ball valve rather than a pressure regulator, so I don't really know the minimum PSI required to run it. I do know that the springs are ball point pen springs which are .016" wire and 3/4" long, same as MB's.

Chuck


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## radfordc (May 5, 2009)

My engine uses a ball point pen spring cut in half. Each spring is approximately 1/2" long. Don't you need alot more than a couple of psi of air to get the "poppin' john" sound?


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## Metal Butcher (May 5, 2009)

radfordc  said:
			
		

> My engine uses a ball point pen spring cut in half. Each spring is approximately 1/2" long. Don't you need alot more than a couple of psi of air to get the "poppin' john" sound?



I think that the sound (popping) was the same just louder with the stiffer springs on my build of "Chuck's Single". I was more interested in smooth-and-slow running at a very low pressure. It would stand to reason that the "John Deere" "tone" would be the same regardless of spring pressure, and that lower pressure would only have an effect on "Volume".

I haven't looked over the valving arrangement on the"John Deere" to see how it differs from the "Single". I'm kind of at a loss as to how it works. I am considering the the valve design used on the "single" for the JD. There's that "Butcher" in me again, trying to run my build! ;D

-MB


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## cfellows (May 5, 2009)

The valve assembly in the horizontal single and the JD engine are functionally the same. Adapting it to an overhead valve arrangment for the JD engine was actually a lot of extra work. I just did that to come as close to the original JD engine in appearance as I could. Plus, overhead valves and rocker arms add to the visual appeal of the engine running.

The L-head arrangment of the horizontal single is a lot simpler to build since it does away with rocker arm assemblies and the o-ring.

As far as sound goes, you'll get more sound if you use a volume limiting valve, like a ball valve. The pressure starts out high, then drops rapidly after the intake valve opens. My theory is that this more closely emulates the operation of an IC engine.


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## Bill Mc (May 5, 2009)

Hi Chuck

I want to get my two cents worth in here. I personally and on behalf of our other members would like to thank you VERY MUCH for sharing and assisting our other members to duplicate YOUR John Deere engine after your hard work of designing and experiencing the pain of modifying and correcting the problems you encountered on the way to the conclusion of the building of this, a mighty fine engine. This is truly an unselfish deed on your part and shows your love of the hobby and towards your "fellow" (if I may use this term Chuck) man. I say this knowing that I myself will never gain enough experience to build this particular project. However I am gaining a wealth of knowledge and learning just seeing and following how these operations are carried out. You can be sure I will be watchfull for more of your projects. - Yours Truly - Billmc


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## cfellows (May 5, 2009)

Thanks, Bill. Knowing that others are looking and learning is gratifying. 

I also know how much I appreciate seeing and learning from what others are doing. The imagination and talent of people, particularly in model engineering, never ceases to amaze me!

Chuck


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## radfordc (May 8, 2009)

Definitely green!


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## Metal Butcher (May 8, 2009)

Charlie, really, really :bow: Nice! 

Defiantly green.

Glad to see you got the painting done.

Looks like your ready to start another build.

What will it be......

-MB


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## radfordc (May 9, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/v/_0Ea4kzZwYM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## Maryak (May 9, 2009)

Charlie,

Very nice indeed :bow: :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Metal Butcher (May 9, 2009)

Charlie, super nice to see your John Deere running! :bow:

I can only imagine how good you must feel watching it run. 8)

Its also very exciting for me, since I'm building the same motor.  ;D

Its running very smooth on your bench without any mounting or base. Amazing, its obviously a well balanced motor. 

In the fist half of the video it seems you have it running at a slow to moderate pace. Can you tell me what the air pressure was? A slow runner is good and always my goal.

-MB


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## radfordc (May 9, 2009)

I had the air regulator set to 50 psi, but the pressure at the engine was something less. 20 psi is about the least pressure it will run on. There are enough air leaks in the engine to be sure the working pressure is less than shown on the gauge.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (May 9, 2009)

radfordc  said:
			
		

> I had the air regulator set to 50 psi, but the pressure at the engine was something less. 20 psi is about the least pressure it will run on. There are enough air leaks in the engine to be sure the working pressure is less than shown on the gauge.
> 
> Charlie


I have a suggestion for sealing up an engine that your probably already aware of.

I usually put a thin coat of RTV silicone gasket compound on mating parts during final assembly. Its great stuff. It holds on well to seal things up and peels off easily if-and-when things need to come apart.

I bought a tube at Harbor Freight for about $2. Its available in a red and black color.

Thought I would mention this sealing method in case it could benefit someone.

Here's what to look for: http://proseal.supergluecorp.com/80726.html

I guess I'll be using the red! :big:

-MB


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## cfellows (May 10, 2009)

The hardest part of the engine to seal up are the valve assemblies. The o-ring does a decent job if the groove is cut right. The groove needs to be a couple of thousandths shallower and about .006" wider than the thickness of the o-ring. It also helps to use oil or a thin grease around the o-ring.

I unpacked my JD engine tonight and checked a few things out. Using a pressure regulator, it does take about 50 psi to run it slowly. I verified that the slave valve springs were as I described earlier. I also checked the valve timing and dwell. The rocker arm makes contact with the valve stem right at top dead center. The valves are open for the full stroke and close right at bottom dead center.

I also ran the engine using a simple ball valve to regulate the air flow. The pressure was 110 PSI from the compressor. The exhaust note using a ball valve at full pressure is somewhat louder and sharper. It's also possible to get the engine to run slower with the ball valve than with the pressure regulator. My theory is that the pressure is higher when the inlet valve first opens then quickly drops as the air flow is restricted. The higher initial pressure overcomes the slave valve spring more readily and the drop in pressure lets the engine run slower. Anybody have any other ideas about this?

I do have a new video of it running that I will upload later.

Chuck


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## radfordc (May 10, 2009)

I kept having trouble getting one valve to seal and I always found the o-ring had been cut. I finally realized that the hole drilled for the ball valve that intersects the hole for the poppet valve was the culprit. The sharp edge was shaving off part of the o-ring.

Charlie


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## Metal Butcher (May 10, 2009)

Let me start by apologizing for all the toes I'm about to step on.

I worked with O-rings (and quad rings) for about 15 years. This gave me first hand knowledge and experience using these little critters. They are used in a variety of applications to produce inexpensive and effective seals. There development and existence is largely based on a need to control production costs. There usage spans from a small shaft seals all the way to there use on space shuttles.

They can be-and-are used effectively in model engineering applications. And I do not discourage their use. Most sealing areas on the small motors built by members of this forum do not require a seal of any type. And when an area does require sealing an RTV silicone gasket compound is another proper and effective solution. When I built "Chucks Single" I sealed the valve body to the cylinder head using the RTV compound. I could have used two O-rings on opposite ends of the valve body to seal it effectivly.

The precision grooves, surface finishes and diameters required for proper O-ring seals could be somewhat tedious for beginners like me using manual machines. And will add a complication to the machining of certain parts. Consider the effort required to machine two grooves for sealing the cylinder head/block on a twin cylinder motor vs spreading a thin layer of gasket compound, or cutting a paper gasket.

I hope this post reaches at least a few beginners and helps them to understand that there are many ways to archive a goal. And that making changes to engines designed by others to suite their skill level or desire is worth considering, and something I feel worth encouraging.

-MB


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## cfellows (May 10, 2009)

Hey MB,

I agree that in many modeling applications, an o-ring is probably overkill. However, in this particular application, I could think of no other way to get an effective seal.

The problem isn't in keeping the air from escaping around the valve assembly flange. Rather, it's to keep the air from leaking from the air inlet chamber to the port which leads to the cylinder and exhaust. There is only a small length of the bottom of the valve assembly between these two openings and an o-ring seemed like the only practical solution.


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## Metal Butcher (May 10, 2009)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Hey MB,
> 
> I agree that in many modeling applications, an o-ring is probably overkill. However, in this particular application, I could think of no other way to get an effective seal.
> 
> The problem isn't in keeping the air from escaping around the valve assembly flange. Rather, it's to keep the air from leaking from the air inlet chamber to the port which leads to the cylinder and exhaust. There is only a small length of the bottom of the valve assembly between these two openings and an o-ring seemed like the only practical solution.



Hi Chuck. I don't consider O-rings to be over-kill, they are simply one of the standard industrial approaches to creating a cost effective seal in production environments. I understand where the sealing areas are on the "Deere" head. If a very thin layer is used it would minimize its creep up the valve body creating a clean up around the flange. In theory the contact area of the RTV need not be greater than the contact area of the O-ring. As a mater of fact RTV is specified as an additional precaution under certain conditions by certain manufacturers, and added as an assembly top coat on O-rings. The reason being that a specific surface finish is required for an O-ring to seal. With RTV the surface finish is not a factor.

I don't disagree with your use of O-rings on your build.

I could use a Quad Ring coated with RTV! Now thats over-kill! ;D

-MB


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## radfordc (May 10, 2009)

When I finally ruined my 6th o-ring I got fed up and decided to try something else. I turned a piece of delrin plastic to .375 OD and drilled and reamed to .250 ID. I parted off a piece of this tube .063 wide. I then sliced through this plastic ring at an angle. I slipped the ring into the o-ring groove and with alot of effort got it installed in the head. It sealed as well or better than the o-ring. I just hope I don't need to remove the valve body again.

Charlie


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## johnmcc69 (Mar 6, 2019)

An oldie but a goodie & one of my favorite Fellows designs.

 I am looking at creating a complete detailed drawing set of this engine & would like any input from anyone here who has built this engine or anyone who can add any constructive input to help me out.

 Back in 2008 or 2009, "Radfordc" & some other members here contributed some drawings, pics, & info that have allowed me to complete a detailed 3D model of this engine & would like to complete the detail drawings of it so I can share them here.

 I have contacted Chuck about doing these drawings after we created the drawings of the Maudslay engine, & he has given me his authorization to complete & share these drawings.

 I look forward to your input & am excited about the project,

 John


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## davidyat (Mar 7, 2019)

Looking forward to drawings on this engine. I have booked marked this thread to come back when drawings are available. Hope I can make one.
Grasshopper


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## fcheslop (Mar 10, 2019)

Sadly Mr Fellows has passed away
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8916.msg196945/topicseen.html#new


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## davidyat (Mar 10, 2019)

RIP Chuck. I made the Cirrus V-8 Compressed Air Engine that Chuck designed. When I made a modification, Chuck steered me in the right direction. I will forever be in his debt. I dedicate my building to him.
Grasshopper


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## Cogsy (Mar 11, 2019)

Sad news indeed. He will be greatly missed. RIP Chuck.


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## twobobbwana (Mar 11, 2019)

RIP Chuck you really inspired me with your Rong Fu 30 cnc conversion.

Hope mine turns out as good. 

Wherever you end up I hope they appreciate having a handy machinist around.


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