# What is the best paint for an old machine restoration.



## Buchanan

The heading says it all.  I am restoring an old Acorn tools  Shaper  and want to repaint it as best possible. 
I need a good  paint that will resist oil and also stick to the old casting filler. I would like to brush it on as well as spray, with a final cut and buff to get a good polished paint surface.  Here are a few photos of the regrinding of the ways. I have reground all the sideways, as most were only milled.















   Finally I will scrape them for oil retention.  Having a 1 meter surface grinder at work as a luxury. A machine rebuild makes one appreciate accuracy in 3 dimensions.


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## Charles Lamont

Tractol ?


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## Buchanan

Thanks.  It seems like good old enamels stick best. I  was wondering how good the two pack paints were,  and, if polyurethanes or epoxy's were best.


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## Wizard69

You likely already know this but do realize that old paints and fillers, on old machine tools have a very high probability for lead.   So you will not want to have young people around when refinishing the paint.   Clean up is important too.

Unfortunately machine tools are a tough environment for paints.   If you want better life than what a rattle can from the local hardware store can offer you will need to be willing to spend on pro quality paints suitable for machine tools.   In that regard you have two basic choices, Urethane and Epoxies.   The rational thing to do is to visit some local paint supply stores and get a handle on what they offer.

One example of a high performance "paint" is "Imron" from Dupont used in the transportation industry.   Now that is a highly specialized coating system that probably isn't amendable to DIY usage.    Rustoleum sells an Epoxy Mastic paint to the industry that is probably better suited to DIY.   Try this page: https://www.rustoleum.com/pages/industrial/resources/product-specs/.     Generally what you will run into is the better the coating the more difficult to apply.   Imron is slightly notorious in this regard requiring special equipment.


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## DJP

If your shop is in a  high humidity area consider cold galvanizing (zinc) on clean steel surfaces. If it's good enough for the Navy it should provide protection for exposed steel. A top coat of any metal paint should be sufficient and personally I wouldn't worry too much about a perfect automotive gloss finish. You will soon enough be touching up chips once the machine gets used.


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## Anatol

I'm a fan of hammerite - it just looks right. 
Marine paints are tough, and increasingly, not-so-toxic. Marine enamels make house paint seem like kids watercolors.  Awlgrip is a super tough two-part urethane. Use a good metal primer under. Again, marine paints are tough, but expensive.


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## Buchanan

Thanks for all the information.   I would like this to be a display piece, I don't think it will ever work. So, yes I would like a good polished gloss.  I am leaning toward a 2 pack polyurethane.


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## jhillwig

I went to Sherwin Williams and they recommended a paint for restoring my bridgeport.  It was an epoxy I believe.  Whatever it was it worked great.


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## LSAGuy

If you use a two part urethane paint be sure to have a good personal air supply. No mask will filter the isocyanates in the paint. More than one auto or airplane painter has died from cyanide poisoning.


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## JC54

What a lot of us in the auto trade didn't know at the time was that isocyanates can be absorbed through the skin.. Either stay away from them or be very VERY careful. I know of 2 friends in the trade who had serious problems in later life due to using these paints???? John


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## Anatol

isocyanates - ugh! I hate to think of all the poisonous things I've inhaled or have got in through skin, etc ! Resins, solvents... All those miracle materials seem to turn out to have dire qualities. Now the evidence is in about BPA  - that's in just about everything  and now PTFE (Teflon).


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## Timehunter

I rebuild a lot of old machinery and the paint is going to get messed up and stuff caked on it  and worn and chipped, etc...
    no matter how clean you keep it. 
That is if you use it...…
So to settle on one color to keep a little order in life I settled on Battleship Gray.
I went and got a good quality gallon of oil based enamel for metal mixed up and took it home and divided it into quart cans.
While you are at it... a couple gallons of reducer for cleaning and thinning plus some hardener to make it cure a little faster.
You could also put a clear coat on top if you want for a little extra protection.
No need in spending a lot of money on exotic paints it you are going to use it....
But if just a show piece......what the hey...…..


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## Buchanan

After all the input I think i Imay change my mind and use good old enamel like they used to in the old days.  

If i don't use the machine it will look good any way and if I use it , there are no problems anyway.


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## rennkafer

I'm with Timehunter on this, for both of my recent machine overhauls (~1903 Steptoe shaper and 2J Bridgeport) I used Rustoleum Industrial Smoke Gray.  I plan to use the machines and being able to easily get paint for touchup's and not having to deal with the temperamental nature of two part paint sold me.

Before and after on the shaper...
View media item 1434View media item 1435View media item 1433View media item 1436


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## MRA

>  After all the input I think I may change my mind and use good old enamel like they used to in the old days. 

This seems a good place to try to tie down the difference between household oil-based paints (which thin with white spirit or turps substitute) and 'enamel paint' - like that sold in tiny pots for model builders - which also thins with white spirit or turps substitute!  (Mineral spirits USA, Shellite in Australia, so Google tells me).  It seems if it thins with the same stuff, it ought to be the same stuff.  Well, it seems like that to me.  

I painted my lathe a very tasteful shade of National Trust Green (UK readers will get it) because I found some house paint in B&Q on the cheap.  Then the wife saw it and all my supplies got used up on windows, front door...   It's OK but a bit soft for a machine, and I'd really need to clean it and do it again one day soon.


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## Charles Lamont

The more durable machinery enamels, such as the Tractol I mentioned  earlier, and I think Hammerite, seem to be require xylene thinners.


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## MRA

Yes, Hammerite thins with acetone or 'cellulose thinners' and is much, much quicker drying than white-spirit based paint.


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## WOB

Hammerite is apparently a lacquer which means it will always be susceptible to removal by acetone, xylene, MEK, lacquer thinner, etc.    Oil based enamels once cured, resist such solvents much better and allow use of them in cleaning up machine and cutting oil stains that accumulate on machine surfaces.

WOB


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## Buchanan

I have used a spirit based enamel before. The results were rather nice . The color was Heritage Green.  that was in South Africa in the late 90's . I left the engine behind when we left the country. The enamel had the right look about it. I must have put on 8 coats in the end.


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## Naiveambition

I would second epoxy paint.  I recently painted a project with sliding surfaces  and still no scratches or chips yet.  On the plus side is it will already be shiny after spraying , that is very comparable to polished paint. 

The one I used was from lauers custom weaponry found at midway.com This purpose is for gun finishes, with a high oil resistance, but could easily adapt to the machine environment.     But I will say it is expensive as most good epoxy paints are.   
When I was younger they painted a silo at work and the overspray coated a lot of the cars, with a 30 yr warranty it was extremely hard to get the specks off without damaging underlying paint.


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## Inflight

I live in California, so choices are very limited but I have had excellent long term results using Ellis Hy-Lux (solvent based) paints for machine restoration.  Works best sprayed (cheap HVLP gun is fine).  It can be wet-sanded, rubbed and buffed for that smooth & glossy, factory style finish.


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## Rockingdodge

Try Tractol Paints, I used these when restoring a 1938 Denham Junior lathe. First an acid primer coat then undercoat and topcoat, all brushed on, doesn't chip and looks good.


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## jdurnya

to spend all that time dis-assembling / cleaning / repairing   use a good quality catalyzed urethane   and the matching etching primer if you do it right you will end up with a automotive grade finish that will be extremely durable 

its not cheap  and you will have to use protection to handle and spray it but its definitely worth it


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## Wizard69

Anatol said:


> isocyanates - ugh! I hate to think of all the poisonous things I've inhaled or have got in through skin, etc ! Resins, solvents... All those miracle materials seem to turn out to have dire qualities. Now the evidence is in about BPA  - that's in just about everything  and now PTFE (Teflon).


Well some of this stuff is massive over reaction to sometimes questionable science.   You feed a lab rat a constant diet of toxins and the rat will most certainly die.  In the same regard alcohol can likewise be deadly if drank to excess but on average it can be seen as a positive by most people.

isocyanates are in fact very dangerous especially with exposure over time.   This has lead to manufactures refactoring formulas for their paints.   Imron for example has gone through many revisions over the years.   That doesn't make it safe but it can be considered "safer".

This is why I suggested going to a pro paint store and talking to coating professionals.    This way you can get up to date information on best practices with a specific paint.   Sometimes we end up hearing information that might have been true decades ago but isn't current when seen against current products.   This doesn't imply that everything is safe out there, however a pro paint store can guide you to products suitable for low end equipment.


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## Wizard69

Another possibility that fits in nicely with model engineering is to consider some of the powder cost systems out there.   There are very low cost options to apply it and a repurposed oven can be used to cure.  Unfortunately I haven't used such materials myself so any knowledge about durability comes from using items coated with the powder coat.

Now obviously you will not put a machine frame of any size into a repurposed oven.   So you would have to limit use to places where it would make sense.   Guards and brackets, especially if contrasting colors are desired are good places to use the material.   Also high wear items like handles, knobs and so forth are a good place for powder coating.

The nice thing about powder coating is that it can be used to put very high quality finishes on your models and display items.   In other words it is a good process to have "in house".


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## DJP

If the purpose of the restoration is to have a show quality machine that is for display then automotive paints would be my choice. I restored and sprayed cars in the past and automotive enamel with the correct temperature reducer produces very good results. However, if this machine is older and to be used again in a dirty and rough environment then a simple brush on metal paint (rust paint) is perfect. You don't need to be careful and invest a lot of prep time to keep it looking good.

My thoughts for consideration.


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## Charles Lamont

Ah, but I want the best of both worlds, a smooth glossy quality finish that I can abuse for the next 20 years.


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## alcostich

Years ago I brushed  porch and deck enamel on by Bridgeport Round-ram. Prior to that, even more years ago I brushed the same on my SouthBend lathe and Atlas 7B shaper. All have held up well to years of abuse.


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## chrsbrbnk

there's a hardener available for several  implement  enamels    that have hug in pretty well on my steam tractor


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## MrMetric

Be aware that some of the hardener type paints are cyanoacrylate based paint.  The MSDS on these can be a bit scary.... You can absorb stuff through your skin and mucous membranes.  A charcoal filter will not remove the harmful vapors, so the best way to use them is to cover up and use a full supplied air facemask.  I believe a lot of these paints are for cars and are fairly expensive.  The one I used once dried *rock* hard, but had surprisingly good durability and fill qualities.  It was a little too shiny for my tastes but overall the results were actually pretty good.

Disclaimer... I'm basing a lot of the safety side on the MSDS and with my talking to the factory.


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## Lisa_Clark

Well, I am answering to this 2 years old post because I found something interesting. I researched on this topic I need to restore one of my classic sewing machine. And gradually could found a lot of information about machine painting. 

When you are going to paint a metal body, you need to be very specific in choosing the paint. I would suggest epoxy primer or acrylic Urethane for heavy machines. Mypaintsprayer posted a beautiful blog regarding types of paint, where you can check which paint is appropriate for your paint job.
Like wise different paint enamels and rust preventive paints are also useful to paint old machines. When you are going to restore an old machine. It involves several process such as:

1. Disassemble the parts
2. Removing the old paint from the machine
3. Treating the rust properly 
4. Reconstructing the precision surfaces by scarping and etc
5.  Prepping the surface for painting
6. The final painting
7. Assemble the parts

Thanks


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## Anatol

As a survivor of a cancer whose causes are strongly correlated to VOC exposure, as a long time environmentalist, but also as someone who has a lot of experience with marine paints, urethanes, epoxies and other nasties, I offer the following.
1. True marine paints are as tough as they come. You can walk a herd of cattle over two part urethanes and hardly see a scratch.
2. Where I come from, there are such stringent controls on VOCs that you can't buy paint thinners. But, knowing the history of synthetic chemicals (from DDT to BPA) I know its a history of 'innocent till proven guilty', and often you only find out they're guilty 20 year later when you get cancer or lung disease or your kids have issues. So I tend to be a bit conservative, I don't trust that in 20 years, we won't learn that stuff has been leeching out of the latex paint that's on the outsides insides of our houses.
3. I like hammerite. I love that old-time dappled look, its just the thing for old iron.


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## KellisRJ

Lisa_Clark said:


> Well, I am answering to this 2 years old post because I found something interesting. I researched on this topic I need to restore one of my classic sewing machine. And gradually could found a lot of information about machine painting



Hi Lisa. I refurbished machines for years, and slowly culling my heard as a move is pending and I honestly spend more time now making chips. What machine are you working on? I have a 201-1 & a 15-91 that I need to get off the floor and finished . . .  wish I had the skills to do a 66 bobbin carrier!

Ron


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## KellisRJ

Anatol said:


> As a survivor of a cancer whose causes are strongly correlated to VOC exposure, as a long time environmentalist, but also as someone who has a lot of experience with marine paints, urethanes, epoxies and other nasties, I offer the following.
> . . .
> 3. I like hammerite. I love that old-time dappled look, its just the thing for old iron.



For what it's worth, my sympathies. At 17 I was a know nothing and consider myself just darn fortunate that I wasn't permentally damaged as a painter's "helper" with a bandanna painting a PBY with two part urethane. Or keytone poisoning from splashing MEK around like it was water . . . . I find it amazing how it's still considered "OK" to slowly poison people because the same math/statistics they use to create the stuff are inadequate to prove harm.

Oh, on the old Singers it's often called a crackle or "Godzilla" finish.

R


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## SmithDoor

Buchanan said:


> The heading says it all.  I am restoring an old Acorn tools  Shaper  and want to repaint it as best possible.
> I need a good  paint that will resist oil and also stick to the old casting filler. I would like to brush it on as well as spray, with a final cut and buff to get a good polished paint surface.  Here are a few photos of the regrinding of the ways. I have reground all the sideways, as most were only milled.View attachment 104362
> View attachment 104362
> View attachment 104363
> View attachment 104364
> View attachment 104365
> Finally I will scrape them for oil retention.  Having a 1 meter surface grinder at work as a luxury. A machine rebuild makes one appreciate accuracy in 3 dimensions.


I have automotive paint.
I like oil base but good luck buying it California.

Dave


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## 57mm_M18

Does anyone know what was used as a plaster on the surface of the castings before painting?


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## goldstar31

57mm_M18 said:


> Does anyone know what was used as a plaster on the surface of the castings before painting?


Possibly boiled linseed oil and whiting.


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## 57mm_M18

goldstar31 said:


> Possibly boiled linseed oil and whiting.


Ahhh-yes,  This would get hard and could be smoothed to provide a paint ready surface.  Do you know if they added lamp black to the mixture and what the purpose of that would be.


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## goldstar31

Lamp black if you have read Charles Dickens , he sold it as iron stove polish.   Grate Expectations

I would add cobalt napthenate as driers

 Never thought that I could crack an old joke like that

Regards

Norman


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## SmithDoor

Use machinery dealers use automotive filler it works great. They buy it one gallon cans but just buy by tube from the auto parts store.

China likes spackle bad choice
Dave




57mm_M18 said:


> Does anyone know what was used as a plaster on the surface of the castings before painting?


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## 57mm_M18

goldstar31 said:


> Lamp black if you have read Charles Dickens , he sold it as iron stove polish.   Grate Expectations
> 
> I would add cobalt napthenate as driers
> 
> Never thought that I could crack an old joke like that
> 
> Regards
> 
> Norman



Thank you Norman.  I have wondered about this surface finish ever since I had to clean and repaint my first mill some 58 years ago.

I love the old joke crack.

Charlie


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## l.dullum

A friend in the hot-rod fraternity told me that they use J-B Weld to smooth out engine block casting surface defects before painting.  I have used this on model engine castings to great effect.  I don't know about obtaining large quantities for machine castings and the like.  Auto body primer works well, as it contains lots of filler to smooth out rough surfaces.  Plan on a few coats, wet-sanding in between with 320 Wet-or Dry, to get a really nice surface finish.

Larry


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## almega

Definitely enjoyed the Dickens reference.  Good one!


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## Anatol

Norman
This reminds me - when I was a kid, I was taught a recipe for aquarium putty using linseed oil, whiting, and 'white lead'. Mixed it up in my hands, it worked but I surely got a good serving of lead 
I still don't know what 'whiting' is. Calcium carbonate?
Lamp Black - yeah, so much oil in it. Probably gave off some nasty fumes when the stove got hot.

Dave- auto filler, like bonds - polyester resin with ...whatever junk you can find, cement powder, etc. Going that route,  I'd use epoxy with a fine, relatively inert mineral filler - plaster power might work. Problem is, when it sets, seining it is like sanding bricks - it wears our abrasives. Fumed silica is bette and its thixotropic. Glass or phenolic microbaloons are good for bigger hole and they sand well.

M18- I guess adhesion is important, so degreasing would be key


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## goldstar31

Anatol


It is calcium  carbonate or in old fashioned parlance 'lime wash' made heated up limestone in kilns

I've used it in Spain on my villa walls to save money but then I said 'What the Hell 'and the new huge drums of oil bound paints/wall coverings were available. It's probably where  I learned to scrape.

Now how much titanium dioxide went in to the brew is anyone's guess but safer than using white lead which was also the bane of people's lives. I recall as  boy 'lead burners' as a job.

What most people fail to realise is the cheap fillers used to bulk out resins.  Some of the grey coatings are 'slate dust'

I think that I'm right in the above. The years - many have passed and all that I'm really left with is the company dividends from a huge conglomeration of paint, plastics and chemicals. The other side is pharmaceuticals and packaging. 

By Jove how the money rolls in- rolls in


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## Cogsy

Anatol said:


> Fumed silica is bette and its thixotropic. Glass or phenolic microbaloons are good for bigger hole and they sand well.



I don't know much about filler materials but I'm curious as to what advantage there is using a thixotropic fluid? Is it just ease of application?


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## Anatol

Cogsy said:


> I don't know much about filler materials but I'm curious as to what advantage there is using a thixotropic fluid? Is it just ease of application?



Hi Cogsy
thixotropic fillers like fumed silica are great when working vertical - it doesn't flow (down). I once made the mistake of mixing glass microbaloons and fumed silica - the microballoons behave like ball bearings, so the whole lot flowed down in an ugly mess that looked like porridge. (I got that off before it set). Ditto for working overhead, drips of epoxy in the eye, face, hair are never welcome.


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## Mike Ginn

I am building a Wyvern and am thinking of lightly sand (glass) blasting the brass and steel components to give consistent finish.  Maybe with some clear matt spray to protect.  Does anyone have a view on this process?  Any comments would be appreciated.  Thanks.  Mike


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## Cogsy

Anatol said:


> Hi Cogsy
> thixotropic fillers like fumed silica are great when working vertical - it doesn't flow (down). I once made the mistake of mixing glass microbaloons and fumed silica - the microballoons behave like ball bearings, so the whole lot flowed down in an ugly mess that looked like porridge. (I got that off before it set). Ditto for working overhead, drips of epoxy in the eye, face, hair are never welcome.


Ah, so it's not really the thixotrophic nature that you're interested in but the high viscosity then? I was imagining some 'special' application benefits or something.


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## Anatol

Cogsy said:


> Ah, so it's not really the thixotrophic nature that you're interested in but the high viscosity then? I was imagining some 'special' application benefits or something.


you may be right, I've heard the term used in reference to epoxy filled with fumed silica, but it may not be thixotropic in the strict sense, just viscous. There is online some discussion of truly thixotropic paint, advantage being it flows off the brush/spray but then gels when not moving. Come to think of it, cement and plaster do this too.


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## Anatol

Mike Ginn said:


> I am building a Wyvern and am thinking of lightly sand (glass) blasting the brass and steel components to give consistent finish.  Maybe with some clear matt spray to protect.  Does anyone have a view on this process?  Any comments would be appreciated.  Thanks.  Mike


any kind of blasting with hard media will create a finley pocked surface, great tor taking primer, terrible if you want to polish or plate.


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## Cogsy

Anatol said:


> you may be right, I've heard the term used in reference to epoxy filled with fumed silica, but it may not be thixotropic in the strict sense, just viscous. There is online some discussion of truly thixotropic paint, advantage being it flows off the brush/spray but then gels when not moving. Come to think of it, cement and plaster do this too.



Many fluids are shear-thinning, and as you say many paints and slurries certainly are. Some things, like toothpaste or canned whipped cream, are Bingham plastics which flow under shear but almost solidify as soon as shear is removed and retain their surface features. Truly thixotropic fluids have a time-dependent increase in viscosity such that there is not a sudden or instantaneous increase in viscosity as soon as shear is removed. I believe stirred yoghurt has this property where the shear created by stirring reduces viscosity and upon ceasing the stirring the yoghurt takes a measurable few seconds to slowly return to its thickened state.

So long-story-short, I was wondering if the filler somehow flowed into crevices or something before returning to the fully viscous state. Just some idle curiosity...


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## Anatol

Cogsy
thanks, I've learned a lot about the subtlties of thixotropicity (?) in this thread
"I was wondering if the filler somehow flowed into crevices or something before returning to the fully viscous state"
Nah, I think its just goopy. 
"Truly thixotropic fluids have a time-dependent increase in viscosity such that there is not a sudden or instantaneous increase in viscosity as soon as shear is removed."
this is the opposite of the famous cornstarch and water nonewtonian fluid effect...

I guess that's antithixotropic
When I was a kid I hung out with geomorphologists, one of who was 'famous' for naming the quality of mudslides to suddenly liquify. He called it "Lottle", based on the rhyme 'be careful with the ketchup bottle, first none comes but then a lottle'. It sounds like Ogden Nash. Turns out the original was by Richard Willard Armour . 
Now, what was that about steam engines?


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## bazmak

I have refurbished a no of Myford lathes and found epoxy enamel straight off the shelf at the local
hardware store to be the best and easiest.Can be handled after 24hrs but takes a no of days to fully cure/harden
Sure there are better more exotic paints and if you have the equipment and funds etc will do a better job
But for what most of us home workshop engineers want good old epoxy enamel is great


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## Cogsy

Anatol said:


> I guess that's antithixotropic
> 
> [snip]
> 
> When I was a kid I hung out with geomorphologists, one of who was 'famous' for naming the quality of mudslides to suddenly liquify. He called it "Lottle", based on the rhyme 'be careful with the ketchup bottle, first none comes but then a lottle'. It sounds like Ogden Nash. Turns out the original was by Richard Willard Armour .



'Antithixotropic' fluids are called rheopectic fluids (shear-thickening) and there is very few of them, starch and water being the most famous. Most fluids are non-Newtonian but the vast majority are shear-thinning. This is why when you hit the bottom of your ketchup bottle hard enough, you introduce enough shear to momentarily liquefy the contents and flood your plate. Perhaps the most famous shear-thinning fluid after ketchup/tomato sauce is quicksand (although it's also a very important property of blood).

And yes, back to the engines seems appropriate.


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## MrMetric

I thought the sideline was really quite interesting.  I learned a bit more about painting than I expected.  That said, I have to admit that I'm almost more confused now than when I first started reading this thread a few years ago.  I'm considering painting a machine and I am not sure *what* to use now.  I really want to understand more about the acrylics and such.  I'd like something durable, but I don't want to kill myself in the process.

Separately, painting engines is an area where I should look around HMEM to see what useful posts exist. I don't recall any, but I'm *sure* they exist.  Generally speaking, I am guessing it is the cast engines that will probably have the most angst for people.  I know it is that way for me... I'm wondering how others prep... Body filler, no filler, paint type, etc...


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## ajoeiam

Wizard69 said:


> You likely already know this but do realize that old paints and fillers, on old machine tools have a very high probability for lead.   So you will not want to have young people around when refinishing the paint.   Clean up is important too.
> 
> Unfortunately machine tools are a tough environment for paints.   If you want better life than what a rattle can from the local hardware store can offer you will need to be willing to spend on pro quality paints suitable for machine tools.   In that regard you have two basic choices, Urethane and Epoxies.   The rational thing to do is to visit some local paint supply stores and get a handle on what they offer.
> 
> One example of a high performance "paint" is "Imron" from Dupont used in the transportation industry.   Now that is a highly specialized coating system that probably isn't amendable to DIY usage.    Rustoleum sells an Epoxy Mastic paint to the industry that is probably better suited to DIY.   Try this page: https://www.rustoleum.com/pages/industrial/resources/product-specs/.     Generally what you will run into is the better the coating the more difficult to apply.   Imron is slightly notorious in this regard requiring special equipment.



Meant as feedback on your information. 
Your email is actually (IMO) quite recent but Rustoleum has changed its website and so the link comes up as a 404 (page unknown/unavailable). 
Wondering if a way of reducing that for readers at some point in the future might be to actually attach the page(s). 
So I tried using Rustoleum's web contact form - - - - seems like the Recaptcha is in an infinite loop. 
Next tried a phone call to their Canuckistani support division (they are open at 08.05 CST!!(09.05 their time)) only to find out that the Industrial support system is somewhat new to them - - - end result - - - - no advice as to products. 
Seems like the web has devolved to a pretty pictures kind of thing - - - well - - - - it 'was' useful for a while. 

So I have some more digging to find 'good' product.
(Thanks for the tips!!!!!!!)


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## Wizard69

ajoeiam said:


> Meant as feedback on your information.
> Your email is actually (IMO) quite recent but Rustoleum has changed its website and so the link comes up as a 404 (page unknown/unavailable).
> Wondering if a way of reducing that for readers at some point in the future might be to actually attach the page(s).
> So I tried using Rustoleum's web contact form - - - - seems like the Recaptcha is in an infinite loop.
> Next tried a phone call to their Canuckistani support division (they are open at 08.05 CST!!(09.05 their time)) only to find out that the Industrial support system is somewhat new to them - - - end result - - - - no advice as to products.
> Seems like the web has devolved to a pretty pictures kind of thing - - - well - - - - it 'was' useful for a while.
> 
> So I have some more digging to find 'good' product.
> (Thanks for the tips!!!!!!!)


Sadly these days many companies don't understand the web and its importance to communicating with its customers.   Links like I provided should be good for basically forever.   Even if the product is discontinued, the web page should be updated to say that.

As for finding a "good product" I still think for most people the best bet is to visit a local paint store that handles more than house paint.   Hopeful the guy behind the counter will have more knowledge about what he can easily get and maybe more important it easy to use for a DIY project.   Even with 2 part paints there is a wide variety of types and and even within the types or brands, formulation very.    Most of the formulation changes have been made to make products safer.    Safer however is not safe which is the reason to go to a good paint supplier as hopefully they can outfit you properly for safety.


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## Charles Lamont

Wizard69 said:


> I still think for most people the best bet is to visit a local paint store that handles more than house paint.


AFAIK There is no such thing in the UK


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## goldstar31

Charles Lamont said:


> AFAIK There is no such thing in the UK


If there is a demand for a product and there is a willingness to pay for it, there will always be someone to fill that need. 
Some( a lot of years ago) I had a Myford Super7B slideways ground and sensibly I asked where 'they ' got their paint.  I was informed that theirs came from a firm in Tyneside - which quite bluntly was and is the scene of tons and tonnes of paint and finishes being manufactured. As I have said, I'm a shareholder - and doing quite well- Thank you.The machine tool business, ship building and whatever have gone--- bluntly arse over tit.
There is, however , quality paints available from such places as ships chandler's where one can buy and relieve your purse of substantial sums of money. Again, I have chipped that horrid bilious green Myford paint on my present Myford and will either take a sample of paint to be matched at the local Halfords or do what others are doing-- and buying on the 'net. The 'net is where I will have to pay a collection and delivery charge when I put my order in o feed my shivered frame tomorrow. Today, - I hope hat some nive young man will deliver a sort of backplate for my other lathe and will have received the custumary delivery payment of 50p for his services.

This- and I am trying to keep abreast of things is the 'way of things.
My father in law 'made paint' for his 50 workmen to apply on all the railway stuff from the Border at Berwick o Tweed down to York and now his great grandson is organising  a fleet of drivers to deliver paint or whatever-- and receive the customary money for delivery.
Nothing has changed- apart from Lagonda car to a top of the range Mercedes still with the same numberplate. There is still a breed of people who are unwilling or unable to pay for things.
In this case- their hobby.
Nothing has changed!


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## tim9lives

JC54 said:


> What a lot of us in the auto trade didn't know at the time was that isocyanates can be absorbed through the skin.. Either stay away from them or be very VERY careful. I know of 2 friends in the trade who had serious problems in later life due to using these paints???? John


I remember it like it was yesterday. The Auto Body Painter at the Ford dealership dropped down and every one thought he was having a heart attack. He was painting a car using Imron Paint and he was wearing a double cartridge respirator filter, but it obviously wasn’t enough. EMS rushed him to the hospital and he recovered but it turns out that the the paint fumes is what got him. This was an experienced guy about 36 years old. 
   So yeah, those two part paints can be very bad for your health when sprayed. I haven’t used Irmon since that day... and that was over 30 years ago.


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