# Myford ML7, New lathe and I have questions.



## Orjan72 (Aug 2, 2010)

Just before the holidays I visited a client at their offices and after the meeting we got a tour of the premises including the warehouse and the small workshop. As it turns out it contained a rather large Colchester lathe and a substantial mill. I got talking to one of the owners and as it also turned out he had an old Myford. I blurted out the question if he would want to sell it as it was stored on a pallet high up on a shelf. He did and without knowing the model, age or condition I bid 300 £ (NOK 3000,-). He accepted and a couple of days ago I picked it up.

It seems to be a 1966 ML7, with Norton quickchange box, clutch and a bit of equipment. 4 jaw, 2 x 3 jaw, faceplate, vertical swivel slide with minivice, quickchange toolpost (4 way), original oildrip feeders as far as I can tell and 2 oilguns. Bits and bobs include T nuts of various lenghts, dogs but no change gears.

I know very little of Myford lathes and have never operated one. My other lathe is a Weiss 280vf and is a bit different than the "new" addition.

The lathe clearly needs a bit of TLC and restoration.
- A bit of play in the cross slide, coming from a missing spacer (or the need for one) in the feedscrew.
- Cant get the chuck of, because I don't know how ;-). Any tips?
- Rewiring of the 3 fase motor and testing.
- Belt shield for motorbelt is not fastened.
- maybe new handles on the topslide, cross slide etc.

The bedway seems ok, but I have little knowledge of how to evaluate it.
The saddle gets a little bit tighter towards the tailstock, but that would probably be normal.

I'll include a few photos for your evaluation, please feel free to comment and give advice. I don't want to ruin a classic.
BTW, I have never seen a ML7 with Norton gearbox and clutch, anyone else?

Sorry about the quality of the pics, phonecam not very good I'm afraid.
Orjan


----------



## arnoldb (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi Orjan

 ;D Looks like you got yourself a good one - though it does appear to have worked a bit. The clutch is rare, but I have one myself, and it is a true pleasure to use. Most likely, the change wheels have all been installed in the quick-change gearbox - man am I envious of that one!

What do you mean by "Play in the cross slide" ? - do you mean it can wiggle around, or is it play when you turn the feedscrew (excessive backlash)

The chuck unscrews; it has a normal right-hand thread that engages a register on the spindle. You'll have to lock the spindle; unfortunately the ML7 does not have a feature to do this. Don't be tempted to put the lathe into back gear to lock the spindle; seeing as how long this machine was idle, the chuck is most likely gummed onto the spindle tightly, so you could break the gear trying to unscrew it. The best option is to make a "spindle crank" - an arm that fits into the spindle from the left and locks in place so you can keep hold of the spindle on that side. Get a thick round bar you can cross-drill for a tommy bar - and after cross-drilling it, clamp it in the chuck. Then you can use the hand crank and tommy bar in combination to loosen the chuck. I happened to notice that it's the original Burnerd chuck as well.

 ;D Nothing wrong with the original handles ;D - except that you cannot zero them.

The saddle getting tighter toward the tailstock is normal for a Myford that's seen a bit of use, as you correctly surmised.

If you have more questions, fire away 

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## mklotz (Aug 2, 2010)

Removing the chuck...

Arnold has given you excellent advice. I would only add that you might want to put some good penetrating oil onto the chuck-spindle interface and let it sit for a day or two to assist in the loosening. It wouldn't hurt to heat the chuck gently while this is happening. A 100 watt light bulb placed under the chuck should work nicely.

Here in the USA, the brand of penetrating oil I would recommend is something called "Kroil". Since you're in Norway (and thanks for telling us where you are located), Kroil may not be available locally. Ask around locally at shops that do mechanical repairs. They may be able to recommend a local brand. Or perhaps some of our European members can chime in with a recommendation.


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi Arnold and mklotz, thanks for the reply!

I'm glad I didn't try to force the chuck off in frustration, I'll try your way instead  

Went over the lathe one more time ( It's sooo much fun going over a new machine :-[ )

Play in the cross slide: Unless I tighten up the gib it can wiggle about. When the gib is tight ( too tight), feeding in is jerky. I inspected the underside of the slide and discovered that the feedscrew has so much backlash that it contacts with the dial on the handle. The dial disc is warped and that gives the jerky movement. It is the dialindicator disk that "drives" the slide. Looking at the underside it looks like it is possible to shim the leadscrew on the handle side to avoid this. What do you think? New top slide?

The only problem I see with the Tommybar is that the bar will rotate in the jaws of the chuck. It already did that when I tried to lock the spindle by holding together the belt with the drive connected. I had an extender for a socket wrench in the chuck, connected to a Big socket wrench. Even when just squeezing the belts together and rotating the wrench it slipped... I don't want to overload the chuck when I tighten it... I'll try it though, maybe a softer metall in the chuck will provide more grip for it.

The handles are fine, for looking at , they have a very rough feel when using them. Not that I have delicate hands or anything... :

In the tailstock I found a brass roundbar with an bend in it, for releasing the tool held in the morse taper by giving it a whack. I suspect it was not the original way of doing it?

If the changewheels are in the gearbox, good place for them! ;D

I got the octagonal stand with raiserblocks and the reverse/forward switch. I haven't got 3 fase in the basement and thought of using a frequency converter. That way I can keep the motor. Do you have any experience with frequency converters on lathes?

You're right it is a burnerd chuck on the spindle, in fact the individual 4 jaw is also Bernerd ( I think the slimline one) and there is a second 3 jaw Burnerd that is mounted on a backing plate. The one on the lathe is mounted directly on the spindle.

Ill need new belts though, looks like I have to dismantle the driveshaft/spindle thingy to get it done, will that require new bearings you think? Also the oildrip cups are clogged, at least the one close to the spindle. will have to spray some WD40 and get it clean before adding oil. Might do that before the new belts if the bearings have to come off then anyway...

As I already said, I have another lathe and the Myford was bought at a bit of whim, Do you think the price I paid was ok? I might sell it on later ( though I doubt it, Imperial threads and all... ;D).

All the best, Orjan


----------



## arnoldb (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi Orjan.

Like Marv said, spray the spindle liberally with penetrating oil - at the back where the chuck meets the spindle (that's the register part) and also open the chuck; you'll see where the spindle nose stops inside of the chuck. Spray it in there as well. Then let it rest for a while.
From the sounds of your attempts at removal with the socket wrench extender - that's not surprising; normally those extenders are hardened and smooth, so will just cause damage to the chuck jaws. Normal CRS would be better - or if you can find a bit, some unhardened hex steel gripped on the flats. If you can find a piece just small enough to get into the hole in the chuck body that would be best, as the chuck jaws would be clamping on their full length. 

I don't think you need a new cross slide. From what you describe the feed nut is pretty worn and the feed screw might possibly be slightly bent. If there is a knock to the dial, that will also cause some binding; a shim/spacer could help there. You can buy new feed nuts from Myford - and as much as I love my old "girl", you had better be sitting down when getting prices. The upside is that it IS a good quality bit of kit ;D If you're not in a hurry, one of my to-do projects is making a new nut, feedscrew, and zero-able handle for my ML7's cross slide - that might be a couple of months in coming though.

My lathe's a year older than I am - 1971 vintage - but all the handles are smooth as silk to turn, so I think you may have quite a bit of dirt in yours. A complete strip-down and clean, and then re-assembly with good oil sounds like its called for ;D - a bit of work, but it will be worth it!

 :big: I have a bit of brass lying on my lathe to tap the accessories out of the tailstock; apparently this is common practice as I have not seen much mentioned about this either 

Unfortunately, I have no practical experience with frequency converters, so I can't provide any tangible input on that score.

You can't get "new" bearings as such for the ML7; yours will still have the original Babbit bearings - with some shims in the headstock. The only option for new bearings for the ML7 costs more than you paid for your lathe - check here

You can use a linked belt to replace the old headstock belt; I did this using a "Fenner" belt, and while it is slightly more noisy, it works well. At least you don't have to disassemble the headstock to put on the new belt. Speak up if you want a photo  . 

As to the clogged oilers - are they really clogged or just set incorrectly? You might want to try and fill them with some very thin evaporative solvent (lacquer thinners springs to mind) to dissolve any old oil and start a free flow through the bearings. Then wait a couple of days for the thinners to evaporate thoroughly and fill with oil again.

As to the price, well, for what you have you got a good deal as far as I'm concerned. Just the QC gearbox is worth your price as far as I'm concerned.

If you're prepared to put a bit of TLC into her, she might just surprise you ;D

Regards, Arnold


----------



## mklotz (Aug 2, 2010)

> Ill need new belts though, looks like I have to dismantle the driveshaft/spindle thingy to get it done...



If you're going to tear it down to do a full refurbishment and/or install new headstock bearings, then by all means install new belts when you do that.

OTOH, if you don't get into that deeply, be aware that segmented belts are sold, e.g.,

http://www.mcmaster.com/#v-belts/=88dkjm

and they can be fitted without disassembling the spindle.


----------



## Niels Abildgaard (Aug 2, 2010)

The cheapest way to remove chuck is to separate chuck from backlplate and turn backplate to swarf.
A new is cheap and easy to fit to chuck.


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi Niels, 
A good idea, but the chuck in question is mounted directly onto the spindle with no use of a backplate.
I have another 3 jaw with backplate, but it is already off the lathe.

Orjan


----------



## tel (Aug 2, 2010)

That Norton box sounds clumsy and dangerous - you'd better pull it off and sent it to me for safe keeping! No charge, just another Public Service!


----------



## cidrontmg (Aug 2, 2010)

Niels Abildgaard  said:
			
		

> The cheapest way to remove chuck is to separate chuck from backlplate and turn backplate to swarf.
> A new is cheap and easy to fit to chuck.



Well, it´s not very clear from the images, but I think this chuck doesn´t have a backplate. The chuck base is tapped for the Myford spindle nose (1-1/8" x 12tpi). I have one of those, a Pratt Burnerd Grip-Thru, stamped "Specially made for Myford ML7 lathe". But there are lots of chucks of other makes that directly screw to the Myford spindle nose. 

Fenner belting, changewheels (if you really must have some ;D), metric conversion kits, etc., not original Myford, but good enough, see http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/MYFORD_LATHE_USERS_NEW1.html
Standard disclaimers, just a satisfied client.
I have a Super 7, a lot older than your or Arnold´s, still going strong.

About the motor - I read you don´t have 3 phase in the basement - would that mean that you have 3 phase upstairs? Just run a cable (=let an electrician install a socket in the basement). Far cheaper than a freq. converter, and no hassle. True 3 phase is always preferable to an imitated one, and it won´t load just the one phase, where there might be other things connected, that don´t like the "garbage" the converters put on that phase. My motor is also 3 phase, I´ve seen machinery running with converters, and I wouldn´t change.


----------



## johnthomp (Aug 2, 2010)

soak the threads in WD40 its up there with the best of em as far as penetrating oil goes and in the chuck id put a large gauge hex bar in there and grab that with a big ring end spanner with a heavy section tube over that for extra leverage i have the same problem with my burnerd chuck its a complete swine to get off
  reguards john


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 3, 2010)

tel  said:
			
		

> That Norton box sounds clumsy and dangerous - you'd better pull it off and sent it to me for safe keeping! No charge, just another Public Service!



Clumsy and unsafe you say? Well we can't have that now, can we. It'll be in the mail shortly. 

And they say there are no more decent people in the world, just goes to show..

Orjan
 :big:


----------



## lordedmond (Aug 3, 2010)

As a Myford user ( I live a stone throw from the factory)  

as to the chuck hold the belts as you have done with a brass bar griped in the chuck clout the bar with a decent hammer put some rag one the bed if you like ( and do not spin it on when replacing it AND put some thin oil on the thread )

cross slide   you can get replacement dials that will zero , the end float ( not nut lash ) is removed by snugging up the dial and locking with the hand. note new nuts and shafts are available

the norton gear box runs at £600 second hand if you can get one 

fill with oil to the plug on the end  note these lathes are incontinent and will leak oil from every orifice 

the shims in the bearings are shim packs and look solid but are able to be peeled off in 2 thou steps


the main shaft uses nuto 32 or dte light do not use motor oil 

as to the clutch look after it as the shoes in it were from a moped front brake and are no longer made ( the new ones are cone clutches )


Arcurotrade have a mod for the cross slide that installs a bearing and two thrust races very worth while.



BTW have one of the new big bore Myford lathe look at the site myford.com for the prices and a lot of info

Stuart


----------



## Niels Abildgaard (Aug 3, 2010)

I had forgotten the integral thread in Myford chuck.Had a Myford one myself 40 years ago so my advice is to sell it to somebody who do not know Boxfords and buy two of these


----------



## deverett (Aug 4, 2010)

Hemmingway also do some useful modification kits for the Myford lathes. Have a look at the Poly-v mod if you are thinking of stripping your headstock.

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Myford_Series_7_and_10_Upgrades.html

For reference to the cross slide modification, have a look at 

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/MYF001/index.html

Myfords supplied new with a gearbox did not normally come with change wheels.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


----------



## Niels Abildgaard (Aug 4, 2010)

If You do not feel like dismantlig headstock and You need a new belt,please look at picture.
The belt is called Power Twist and four feet was around 20 dollars on E-bay USA.
A frequency converter and You have the best drive system possible.


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 5, 2010)

Arnold B, mklotz, steamdave, johnthomp, cidrontmg, Niels Abildgaard and lordedmond; thanks for taking the time to help and suggest improvements. I have checked out the links and foresee a frantic ordering session online ;D (sorry for not answering individually, but I haven't been online on a pc, just an Ipod. The Ipod Touch is great for checking tips on the site when I'm in the workshop as I don't have a pc there).

I took the advice of Arnold B and adopted it to my style of using what I have handy instead of going out buying hex bar. I used a 10mm Allen key and a 10 mm spanner with a pipe as extender. I had sprayed the chuck inside and out with WD40 as suggested, left it for a day and wouldn't you know, It came off without a hitch. see pics.

I inspected the spindle and it looks VERY nice. Threads all good. After a good clean and lubrication I test fitted the 4 jaw and it slipped on very easily. 

I have given the renovation of the lathe some thought, I will probably go for segmented belts, the poly V looks tempting but will have to wait. The cross slide will be modified to the plans of arceurotrade.co.uk.
The whole saddle, slides combo will be dismantled and thoroughly cleaned and lubed.
Oilchange for the gearbox after a thorough cleaning of all gears in the quadrant as well as the spindle gears. 
oil drips to be cleaned and refilled with oil.
Lathe and cabinet to be painted.
I will look into getting 3 fase into the basement. I do not know if the house is suppiled with 3 fase, but a lot of houses in Norway are and if it is I will install an outlet. If not I will use a frequency converter. The motor stays.

Have I missed anything? Please let me know if you have an idea that I should Include in my plan!

All the best,
Orjan


----------



## arnoldb (Aug 5, 2010)

Glad you came right Orjan ;D

 You missed the cleaning-the-tailstock-part... - Oh yes, and making chips!

Regards, Arnold


----------



## don-tucker (Aug 5, 2010)

Just my two penneth on segmented belts,when I bought my ML7 it had segmented belts and I could not get them to stop slipping,once I changed to endless the problem was gone,I know other people have had success with them but that was my experience.
Well worth the trouble of removing the spindle.
Don


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi don-tucker,

Valuable tip!
I might rethink the belt issue, as removing the spindle also would give me a possibility to evaluate the bearings etc.
Ill ponder on it a bit, thanks for the tip. 

Orjan


----------



## lordedmond (Aug 5, 2010)

Orjan72  said:
			
		

> Hi don-tucker,
> 
> Valuable tip!
> I might rethink the belt issue, as removing the spindle also would give me a possibility to evaluate the bearings etc.
> ...



i will say one word poly belt opps that was two ;D


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 5, 2010)

lordedmond  said:
			
		

> i will say one word poly belt opps that was two ;D



Oh no, now you've done it.....    :noidea:

I'm trying to be sensible here people, taking it one step at a time, getting the dear old girl up and running, making chips and most of all avoiding giving in to spending far too much money on something I bought on a whim (read: without permission from missus...)  *club*:big:

Seriously though, I think you are right, but it involves a bit more machining then I'm up for right now. The great thing is that even if I get linked belts now, in a year or two I can still convert to poly.

Orjan


----------



## lordedmond (Aug 5, 2010)

the reason for my cryptic post is that I had a old ML7 , it use to eat belts due to the oil ,I too have tried the twist loc belt and to had the slippage problem
 ( others have had more luck)

since I shelled out for one of the new ones over a year ago the poly belt look like new no slipping silent running , couple the poly belt mod with a 3 phase motor with VFD inverter you are golden 

do not use RPM over the 600 or so that it is now because the babbits will not like it , the new machines rev to 3000rpm in two ranges with back gear on the lower range only 


Stuart


----------



## Niels Abildgaard (Aug 5, 2010)

If You use Power twist belt You have to observe the very small arrows that indicates normal running direction.
There is a small difference and how do i know?Apart from that I think they must be work of a genious.


----------



## Ned Ludd (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi Orjan,
You can keep the motor and use an inverter, you just have to modify the internal wiring. I suspect your motor is too old to be dual voltage, but a couple of hours of fun with a soldering iron, some heat shrink sleeving, a goodly length of thread and some insulating varnish will see you up and running, oh and add an inverter to the list.

An inverter is usually cheaper than a converter and is certainly quieter. If you are going to use an inverter for speed control, go for an 'advanced vector control' type. 
If you a only going to use it to supply three phase and use the original belt swapping to give different turning speeds then the cheaper type would do. The cheaper ones work fine in the 40-60 hertz upwards range, but they lack power low down. 

I made the mistake of getting an entry level inverter for my Myford Super7B, but with that experience I got a better one for my other lathe. Having said that, I would not be without my inverter powered Myford for all the tea in China, especially as I only drink Coffee. ;D Once you have had variable speed you will be reluctant to give it up.
Going back to the quieter bit I mentioned above, one of my two converters used to drive me mad (only a short journey that one) with the noisy "Kerchunk" every time I started the motor. . the other one used to Hum noisily, which was a constant irritation. My inverters are much quieter and the lathe motors seem to run more sweetly too. 
Ned


----------



## njl (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi Orjan,

I use a transwave rotary convertor for my three phase machines. You just connect one side to the mains and it makes 415V three phase at the outlet. Just wire it in and your good to go. It does make a noise as it has a running motor. But it can work several three phase machines at the same time which I was told some of the electronic jobbies can't. I have three phases of mains coming into my premises but with each phase terminating in different buildings, the cost the electricity company wanted to terminate the missing two phase to the work shop was extortionate, (for what was effectively two bits of wire through a wall and two extra electricity meters.) which is why I went the convertor route. I've been very happy with transwave kit.

Nick


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 8, 2010)

Hi Ned and njl, I got an inverter from a friend, capable of variable speed. I'll post specs and image shortly. I never connected something like this and I'm clueless when it comes to 3 fase ( or electricity in general, its all magic to me ;D). wish me luck! (I'll consult someone mastering the dark art of electricity before plugging anything into the mains)

Orjan


----------



## Orjan72 (Aug 21, 2010)

Had a look at the cross slide. It had too much play due to worn out bushing. I made a new one (Ø12mmx2mm) out of brass, cleaned,lubed and mounted. Tight like a tiger 
The original bushing was a nylon something or other and completely mashed.
Maybe later I will remake it in teflon as I'm making a part for a boat that involves a teflon bushing.

I will try the linked belt, It will allow me to get the lathe up and running and then later decide if I will convert to poly. Me and my girl are thinking of building a workshop next year with separate metal and wood workrooms (she is an arts and crafts teacher). Then I will probably get more of a system going as well as some heat in the winter. A good incentive to make the poly conversion :big:

I have not got any further on the 3 fase motor other then it is an Euromoto and is capable of 220-380V. The inverter I got is a fairly serious bit of kit and I think it will do nicely (until my mate wants it back  ) By then the new workshop is hopefully complete with 3 fase outlet.


----------

