# For John Rus & Buchanan (V12 in the works)



## Draw-Tech (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi Guys

Just to let you know I started to design this monster.

Jack 

View attachment 12_Cylinder_Engine.pdf


View attachment 12_Cylinder_Engine1.pdf


View attachment 12_Cylinder_Engine2.pdf


View attachment 12_Cylinder_Engine3.pdf


View attachment 12_Cylinder_Engine4.pdf


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## John Rus (Jul 10, 2013)

That is totally awesome! Your designe (and others) have made me start drawing my own V16! Yes I know it's a huge undertaking but I don't plan on making this my first engine or project so I'm not in any hurry.

The specks are going to be as follows,

V16.
Four stroke.
Duel overhead cam.
Super charged.

Carburated (mabye fuel injected later on).
1" bore and stroke.
Crossplane crank.
Liquid cooled.
Spark ignition.
Regular gasoline.

But I still would love to see your V12!!! I had the hardest time deciding between the two and settled for the V16 simply because it's much less common.

Sorry if I hyjacked the thread, I couldn't help myself.

Cheers,
John.


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey John

Your right it's a huge undertaking, keep me up on your progress. I'll post again soon. I'm still debating Dual overhead cams or conventional type, overhead is easier , but adjustment is limited to being able to add or remove shims, where rockers are infinitely adjustable. So what should I choose? any feedback?????????

Jack


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## John Rus (Jul 11, 2013)

I went with DOHC over OHV because of it's lower inertia, simpler to create four valves per cylinder (not a big deal for me), greater design flexability, machinist friend thought it was more reliable, and the pulleys give me an chance to embelish a bit. It also give me the ability to implement variable valve phasing.

Edit.

My progress so far, con rods, lower crank case, cylinder block. Working on the crank right now.

I'm drafting by hand right now and will finalize in CAD later.

Cheers,
John.


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## BronxFigs (Jul 11, 2013)

Gentlemen...

Very interesting to read that some "new" designs will eventually be introduced to the Modeling community.  Looking forward to seeing them.

Wish someone with designing talents would go backwards in time and do a 1916 King-Bugatti U-16 Aero engine....basically two banks of straight 8s, connected to a common output shaft, and sharing a common crankcase.  Nice engine, with that "retro" look, and certainly, different.  Doesn't have to be an exact copy, but should have that old-fashioned look.  Hint, hint.....


Frank


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## John Rus (Jul 11, 2013)

That would be an interesting design, I have my hands full at the moment but someone else with a design itch want to have a crack at it?

John.


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## BronxFigs (Jul 11, 2013)

John....

Yes, you do have your hands full.  Can't wait to see your concepts "on paper".

Maybe someone with designer talents will get an itch for a vintage Aero engine, and do the King-Bugatti U-16.  The "Cirrus" is just about played out by now.


Frank


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 11, 2013)

I have been thinking about a V16 myself. Other than the distributor being huge, i like the design. I have a V8 version running so I am sure it will work.







The problem with the Bugatti is, who has one we can measure up? It's not easy to get access to a bugatti.


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## BronxFigs (Jul 11, 2013)

Steve:

Your designs are first-class...always.

King-Bugatti....you are right.  Not too many exist, and I think there is one on display either in Ohio, or The Smithsonian Museum.  But, surely drawings exist in some archive, company records, etc.  Aren't drawings kept on file somewhere?  Just speculation on my part.

Frank


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## jwcnc1911 (Jul 12, 2013)

Steve...

Have I missed the build thread on that inline 8?  I don't seem to be able to find it with the search function.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 12, 2013)

BronxFigs said:


> Steve:
> 
> Your designs are first-class...always.
> 
> ...



Yes drawings exist. The bugatti Trust makes any existing drawings available. When I checked years ago it was 5 bucks a page and the T50 was over 200 pages. I'll be at the smithsonian next week. i'll look around.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 12, 2013)

jwcnc1911 said:


> Steve...
> 
> Have I missed the build thread on that inline 8?  I don't seem to be able to find it with the search function.



http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/straight-8-a-7451/


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## BronxFigs (Jul 12, 2013)

Steve...

OUCH!  Now I know why there are no/few model, King-Bugatti engines.  But my thoughts were not to replicate the engine exactly, but to replicate the "look" of the engine.  

I could envision that  the good designers on this forum, with computer-CAD skills, could come up with something resembling this unique-looking engine if they were so inclined.

It's not important.  It was only just a whim, and thinking-in-print on my part.  We all dream.


Frank


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 12, 2013)

BronxFigs said:


> Steve...
> 
> OUCH!  Now I know why there are no/few model, King-Bugatti engines.  But my thoughts were not to replicate the engine exactly, but to replicate the "look" of the engine.
> 
> ...



I'm not trying to talk you out of it. All you would need is access to the engine and a tape measure and pad of paper. The trouble is getting access to one. A one time stop would not even come close. You would need to measure many times because you always seem to miss something. I think it's a great idea I just don't know if you can gain access to such a rare engine.


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## BronxFigs (Jul 12, 2013)

I love looking at vintage Aero engines, old machinery, and unconventional designs, etc.  The Bugatti was just another of those engines that caught my eye, because of the way it looked.  

It is a monumental undertaking to design engine models, and I thank you guys for all the great designs that you conceive, and then, build.

Sorry to steer into this territory, instead of focusing on the subject of this thread.  My apologies.


Frank


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## Till (Jul 12, 2013)

@Frank: You might want to have a look at the German book "Zima - Ungewöhnliche Motoren" (Vogel Buchverlag) translates to "ununsual engines" by Professor Zima (rip). He collected information, pictures and scetches of many unusual internal combustion engines and does some analysis on why most of them failed to succeed on the long term. It's so fascinating you actually will learn bits n pieces of German


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 12, 2013)

hi Guys

have been monitoring your threads. found some pics http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...z7gUcP4Asq5ywH0wIGIDQ&ved=0CDoQ9QEwAQ&dur=374

maybe some day looks pretty complicated 

Jack


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## Art K (Jul 12, 2013)

Here I thought this was the King Bugatti.



This is at the ACD Museum in Auburn Indiana.
Art


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 12, 2013)

Nice Pic, looks like two cranks to a PTO at rear, will save photo, anymore views would be great.

Jack


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## BronxFigs (Jul 12, 2013)

That's the engine....  Unconventional, to say the least.  

Probably a nightmare to machine _as an accurate replica._  Surely, you guys could "uncomplicate" this engine...if so inclined.  I wish I had 1/100th of the designing skills, and critical thinking, as the posters on this thread.  All I can do is buy drawings. : (

Thanks for the eye-candy.

Frank


@ Till:   Thanks for the book title and description.  It sounds like an interesting "read".


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 12, 2013)

Hey Frank

As soon as I finish my V12, I'm going to take a shot at it, would be nice if I can get a look at the sides. I added a few pics at the top of this thread.

Jack


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## Art K (Jul 12, 2013)

Hi all,
Unfortunately my side views are blurry. Jack has the link in post 17 that brings up a side view. If I understand correctly it was designed as an aircraft engine during WWI. don't think it was mass produced.
Art


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## John Rus (Jul 13, 2013)

It sure is faster to draw in CAD than manual drafting!

I am drawing about 1 to 2 parts everytime I sit down just can't do it every day.

Your progress is fantastic! Keep it up.

Edit, I didn't realise this thread is already three pages long! So if it seems my last post is a little out of touch you know why.

Cheers,
John.


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## BronxFigs (Jul 13, 2013)

Wow!  Interesting news to read.  The King-Bugatti is a real beauty.... so is the Lockhart Stutz Black Hawk 1928 engine, the Liberty-12, and, some of the Curtiss V Aero engines.  Not Bugatti-ish, but still pretty to look at, and, single-crank designs.

Love the thread subject and looking forward to seeing the new engines being designed by the talented forum members.


Frank


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 13, 2013)

Hey all

Check out this site.
http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19200007000

Jack 

View attachment The U.pdf


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## BronxFigs (Jul 13, 2013)

Jack, et al.:

After reading all the specs. on this engine it is just an engineering marvel that they could be conceived and built, but then, just as amazingly, not used!  How do you take all these man-hours to design something, and then drop the whole project before the engine is perfected?  It must have cost, God knows what kind of money, to make these engines....engineers, designers, tooling, machining, testing, etc.  I guess a lot of people had plenty of work to do in those days.

Please keep us informed about YOUR engines that are being designed.  That was then, and, this is now.

Frank


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## Buchanan (Jul 13, 2013)

I have missed what was going on here for a while. 
This set of design is looking real cool Draw-Tec.
How much of you drawing could go straight to a cam program. 
I am almost ready to test my CNC mill conversian.

Buchanan


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 13, 2013)

Hi Buchanan

I think about 80 to 90% of the milling could be done on CNC, might cost a little more for the conversion to dxf format. Moving right along with the V 12

Jack 

View attachment 12_Cylinder_Engine5.pdf


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## Buchanan (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks Draw Tec. 

I will keep waiting. I think I have a lot to learn abour CNC. 
I have been cutting metal for 32 years but there is so much new in CNC.

Buchanan


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 14, 2013)

Hi Buchanan

If you like I can send you one of the small parts in dxf format or iges, step to practice with.

Jack


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## Buchanan (Jul 14, 2013)

Draw-Tec. 

Give me a few moments to finish my mill and i will take you up on your offer.

Thanks 

Buchanan


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## BronxFigs (Jul 23, 2013)

Nothing further with this V12 project?



Frank


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## Draw-Tech (Jul 24, 2013)

Hi Frank

Check new thread on plans page.


Jack


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