# A stone steam engine



## Majorstrain (Jan 1, 2010)

What better time than the start of a new decade to go back to the stone age. ;D

Well the tools have arrived and it's time to make a start.
Diamond polishing pads, assorted burs in different grades, small drills and a cup wheel all diamond coated. The hones I had already.

Here are the raw materials and the tools that I think will get the job done.







Disregard the beam engine, I'm still rapped at finishing my first engine. ;D

I polished up a piece that was cut down the middle to see what it would look like. not a mirror finish yet but not bad for 10minutes work.

I will be attempting to make John Tom's rocking engine out of granite. 
http://www.john-tom.com/MyPlans/SteamPlans3/RockingSteamEngine/ROCKING%20STEAM%20ENGINEs.pdf

SBWHART and Foozer along with others have already made some fine examples of these engines. 
If you want to check out their threads, here are the links

SBWHART's
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5461.0
Foozer's
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5485.0

The granite is surplus from an unrelated job and is from outback Australia. 1225 meters is the depth it was cored from.

Cheers,
Phil


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## tmuir (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm very much looking forward to following this build.


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## steamer (Jan 1, 2010)

OK I'll bite.....where did you come up with the idea of a granite engine?

Very ingenious!
Inquiring minds want to know....

Dave


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## Majorstrain (Jan 1, 2010)

steamer  said:
			
		

> OK I'll bite.....where did you come up with the idea of a granite engine?
> 
> Very ingenious!
> Inquiring minds want to know....
> ...



Tmuir dared me, and I bit. Rof}



			
				tmuir  said:
			
		

> Now theres a set up you don't often see.
> But go one, make a granite engine. :big:



Vernon is responsible for the name it will have when complete, (following the ship naming convention - nameless until launched) and through that the leaning towards a rocking engine rather than a wobbler. It just suits the medium.


			
				Vernon  said:
			
		

> Phil puts the ROCK in Rocker engines! ;D



This is where it all started - http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=7111.msg75916#msg75916

Cheers
Phil


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## vlmarshall (Jan 1, 2010)

Haha! I'm so glad to see this project getting started! :bow:I think this will be a fun thread to follow. ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 1, 2010)

This is great. A definite must see on YouTube.


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## Majorstrain (Jan 2, 2010)

Well the mill is all dressed up with no where to go. :big: 
I used some 500mm wide paint drop sheet that has tape pre-attached to one edge to dress her up for this dance.






And I started squaring up one end of the 50mm core. 

I'm using a home made cutter that is just a cheap diamond cut off blade from Bunnings and backed it with a piece of aluminium to stop it flexing. It's then mounted in my silting saw arbor.






If I had got my act together earlier today, I should have cut the end roughly square with the blade in the angle grinder. oh: Half way through now so no big deal.

The mill is running at 250 rpm with a slow feed and a 0.25mm depth of cut.
I'm tacking it slow so I don't have to use water with this setup.


Cheers
Phil


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## Majorstrain (Jan 2, 2010)

Done!, That's one end squared away.
Only took an hour and a half. ;D






Nice little moonscape happening there.

I think I'll start on the flywheel first, something easy.

Till tomorrow, cheers
Phil


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## ksouers (Jan 2, 2010)

I didn't know you were also going to use a granite vise and v-blocks ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 2, 2010)

It begins. This is cool.


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## tmuir (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm sorry I dared you to do this, but I am looking forward to the results.


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## Majorstrain (Jan 2, 2010)

ksouers said:
			
		

> I didn't know you were also going to use a granite vise and v-blocks ;D



It certainly looks that way ;D The vise is all wrapped up but the V block is in the dust. I figured it would be easy enough to clean.



			
				zeeprogrammer said:
			
		

> It begins. This is cool.



Thanks Zee, I'm just sitting here wondering how I will manage a 0.5mm piston face. ??? I'll give it a go but I think it will end up being brass rather than granite. 



			
				tmuir said:
			
		

> I'm sorry I dared you to do this, but I am looking forward to the results.



Don't be sorry Tony, I'm into odd or wacky projects. I'm glad you did. 


On A side note, I miss Knudge's posts. He had some really cool idea's and projects going on.

Tomorrow arvo I'll mount up the rotary table and get into the flywheel.

Cheers,
Phil


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## vlmarshall (Jan 2, 2010)

Majorstrain  said:
			
		

> Thanks Zee, I'm just sitting here wondering how I will manage a 0.5mm piston face. ??? I'll give it a go but I think it will end up being brass rather than granite.



Don't sweat it, even METAL engines use dissimilar materials on sliding faces. A sliver of Talc or Mica should do the trick. ;D

Ah, this engine is exciting already... and it's just a cylindrical lump.

Edit: Ok, not Mica... I was thinking of oscillating engines' cylinder backplate. ;D


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## rake60 (Jan 2, 2010)

I like your cover up job on the mill.
I hadn't even considered how abrasive that dust 
would be when you first proposed this build.

Great thread!

Rick


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## Kermit (Jan 2, 2010)

Hey Phil, did you consider putting the extension hose of a vacuum up near the cutting action to reduce the amount of 'stuff' that is layered on everything?

It is a trick I have used alot with many different tools. Never gets everything but sure does reduce the volume to something managable.

I'll be looking forward to seeing this engine running. Good Luck with it,
Kermit


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## itowbig (Jan 2, 2010)

tmuir  said:
			
		

> I'm sorry I dared you to do this, but I am looking forward to the results.



ya ya ya u know u wanted to see somebody build it so just admit it. :big:
i too am looking forward to this build and will be watching very close. :bow:


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## Majorstrain (Jan 3, 2010)

Vernon said:
			
		

> A sliver of Talc or Mica should do the trick. ;D


Iv'e never seen talc not in it's powder form. I'll have to do a Google and check it out. 
I might give slate a go if I can get my hands on some.
Good suggestions Vernon, Thanks

Cheers Rick, I'm surprised at how fine the dust is.



			
				Kermit said:
			
		

> Hey Phil, did you consider putting the extension hose of a vacuum up near the cutting action to reduce the amount of 'stuff' that is layered on everything?


I considered it, but didn't because of the noise at night. After seeing the fine dust that just would not settle, i'm going to have to. 
Thanks for the reminder Kermit.



			
				itowbig said:
			
		

> ya ya ya u know u wanted to see somebody build it so just admit it. :big:
> i too am looking forward to this build and will be watching very close. :bow:


Yep Sid, there might be more than one closet stone mansion here. :big:

Cheers
Phil


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## Noitoen (Jan 3, 2010)

Majorstrain  said:
			
		

> Iv'e never seen talc not in it's powder form. I'll have to do a Google and check it out.



You could cast a talc piston :hDe: mix it up with some "glue" and use a mould with some pressure to make it compact and then "machine" it Thm:


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## Majorstrain (Jan 3, 2010)

Noitoen said:
			
		

> You could cast a talc piston :hDe: mix it up with some "glue" and use a mould with some pressure to make it compact and then "machine" it Thm:



Now there's an idea Noitoen Thm:, but instead of talc I just happen to have a good supply of granite dust. ;D


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## Noitoen (Jan 3, 2010)

Now a bit "of topic", here in Portugal, land of fine "Italian" marble (they extract it from our quarries, ship to Italy and sell the finished product as Italian.....but never mind), many stone shops have a huge box like mould and deposit cleaned "left overs" from stone and when the mould is full, they mix some drums of epoxy or polyester resin and fill the mould. The result is a big block of stone that is cut in slices and after some polish come out with spectacular effects.


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## steamer (Jan 3, 2010)

There are some quiet vacuums out there......but pricey! th_confused0052

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...milyName=Fein+Turbo+III+Variable+Speed+Vacuum

Dave


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## tel (Jan 3, 2010)

There's any amount of talc lying about here - used to be a talc mine in our front paddock.


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## Majorstrain (Jan 3, 2010)

Noitoen said:
			
		

> Now a bit "of topic", here in Portugal, land of fine "Italian" marble (they extract it from our quarries, ship to Italy and sell the finished product as Italian.....but never mind), many stone shops have a huge box like mould and deposit cleaned "left overs" from stone and when the mould is full, they mix some drums of epoxy or polyester resin and fill the mould. The result is a big block of stone that is cut in slices and after some polish come out with spectacular effects.



NO worries Helder, We could talk about stone aeroplanes in this thread and we'd still be smack on topic.
That epoxy method might come in handy for making a display base for the engine. I't will depend how sick of stone I am when I finish :big: 
A bit of marble in the build would be a nice touch as well. I have an old contact that works for a head stone company here in Perth, I'll have to drop in and see if I can get some bits for the engine. 

There must be some gag about not being caught dead in her shop, but I'll leave that for when I'm more awake. Rof}



			
				steamer said:
			
		

> There are some quiet vacuums out there......but pricey! th_confused0052
> http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...milyName=Fein+Turbo+III+Variable+Speed+Vacuum
> Dave



Dam Dave, and that's US prices. I'd hate to see what it costs here in Oz.
I pressed the old wood (wash my mouth out *club*) extraction system into service. It's a 2hp twin bag system that is plumbed around the shed in 100mm storm water pipe. 
The system works on low pressure, high volume suction as opposed to the shop vac which is high pressure, low volume. 
For metal it's no good, but for dust she works a treat.
It's not much noisier than the mill and less so than when I am using the cut off blade shown in the pic. I'm glad I saved some granite dust, because there in none any to be found now. 
Thm: Thanks again Kermit for the reminder.









			
				tel said:
			
		

> There's any amount of talc lying about here - used to be a talc mine in our front paddock.



I'd be interested to see a bit in it's natural habitat Tel, could I trouble you for a pic sometime?

Well this is how much I got done tonight.

I parted off the fly wheel with the diamond slitting saw. It's 50mm across and 7mm thick.






I gave it a bit of a hit with 1200 wet and dry and then the buffing disk to see how it would come out.






You can see two dull patches on the right and left sides, The disk is not flat and it dips down on the edges. It's caused by flex in my home made cutter setup, that cuts more at the start and finish of the cut.
I started work on an adapter for the diamond cup grinding wheel to make it fit the slitting saw arbor.

The drill bits are diamond coated twist drills and the small one is 1.1mm, the other is 2.5mm

I hope you all have a comfortable seat and a good book, It's going to be a slow build.
Cheers
Phil

I'm going to have to change my avitar to the Flintstones soon. Rof}


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## NickG (Jan 4, 2010)

This is absolutely crazy but how can anyone not watch it! :bow:


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## Majorstrain (Jan 6, 2010)

Not much to show for the last few days, 
Work is interrupting things even though I'm on holidays and the wifes kitchen is not finishing it's self. :hDe: Time to hide :toilet:

Oh well, the only progress I made was to turn a bush for the diamond cup wheel to fit the R8 slitting saw arbor.












Maybe I'll steal some time on the weekend.

Cheers
Phil


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## bearcar1 (Jan 6, 2010)

Think of the bright side here Major, when you are all finished with this, you will have become an expert in the field of kitchen countertops. :big: :big: :big:

You're an animal man, but I gotta say, this is going to very interesting to watch as the project unfolds. :bow:

regards

BC1
Jim


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## Majorstrain (Jan 8, 2010)

bearcar1 said:
			
		

> Think of the bright side here Major, when you are all finished with this, you will have become an expert in the field of kitchen countertops. :big: :big: :big:



I hope not, I can think of better ways to drive myself mad. Rof}
Thanks for your support Jim.

Well I put the cup disc to work and the result was better than expected. 
The disc is 600 grit and although fine, it removes material beautifully leaving a ready to polish surface. There is also no flex so the resultant surface is true and flat. 
I am very happy. ;D






Drilling holes how ever is a diferent story entirly. :wall:
The problem can be equated to trying to drill a hole with an end mill rather than a slot drill. :wall: Unless there is a diamond right in the center and then good coverage all the way out to the edge, the bit will not penetrate at all. 
I went through 10 different drills and burs with partial success before I found one that would do the job reliably, but the diameter of this bur is 4.5mm. That will be too big for some of the holes coming up in the cylinder. *bang* Thankfully I did get the center hole drilled with a 2.5mm burr before the :fan:.










Enlarging the pilot holes to 7mm with a drum shaped burr.






The top only needs a very light skim to sharpen up the hole edges,






The underside is a different story, even with very light pressure at break through depth the underside blowout is huge. 
This material is not very forgiving at all.






No great problem on the flywheel as I had 3mm of extra meat. It has cleaned up nicely and is spot on the 4.77 mm thickness required.
Next time I'll use some packing to minimize blowout.

I'm now just making a fixture to hold the flywheel while I bring the circumference down to size. 
More later.

Cheers
Phil


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## Noitoen (Jan 9, 2010)

You can use regular concrete drills for the job. All you have to do is to grind a clean scraping/cutting edge on the "diamond" tip. With slow speed and oil you can drill into a regular ball bearing with one of those.


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## Majorstrain (Jan 9, 2010)

Cool, thanks for the tip Helder.

Cheers
Phil


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## Blogwitch (Jan 9, 2010)

Phil,

I have tried all ways to use those diamond coated things to get a good hole, and as you have found out, they are non too successful. They are really designed for cutting thru glass or tiles. These people also do all the diamond polishing pads as well, at very reaonable prices. So you should be able to get good finshes to the project in hand.

http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

But you might have better luck with these types. The spear drill bits, if you catch them just as they break thru, you could turn the job up the other way and open out the hole from the breakthru side.

http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_34

As already mentioned, you can grind up normal masonry bits to a standard drill bit profile, and they work rather well. I had better breakthru results when I put a flat on the leading edge, as you do for drilling brass.

These types of drills are readily available under the name of hard plate drills, and are very reasonable for cost. This is in the UK, but you might find them listed somewhere local to you.

http://www.leofixings.com/fixings-products_Drill+Bits_Hardplate+TCT+Tipped+Drill+Bits-10-132.html

Just a few things to have in your arsenal that might solve a few of your amazing problems to come.

I can thoroughly recommend Richon tools BTW, some of their other items such as diamond 6" laps and ali backing plates, and the flexible shaft drilling end piece have allowed me to design new machines for my shop that just wouldn't have been cost effective before. I'm just in the process of making them.

http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_9&products_id=215
http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45&products_id=797
http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=44&products_id=735


Blogs


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## Majorstrain (Jan 9, 2010)

Wow, Thanks Blogs :bow:
Richontools has great prices and they do metric ball nose mills for the cheapest price I have seen.  Thm: Thanks again for the link.
Getting tools from the UK is no hassle, I prefer it to the US these days.

No progress on the steam engine today, but plenty on the laminating together a jarrah bench top for the kitchen. 
The timber was cut and planed 6 years ago, and has been "seasoning" since if you know what I mean :, It was second hand and 20 years old when I got. 
SHMBO has the thumb screws on now, as she is tired or the "tempoary" MDF bench tops. (already replaced them once) :hDe:

Cheers,
Phil


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## ozzie46 (Jan 9, 2010)

Why not put a sacrificial piece of granite under neath it like wood workers do with wood when drilling to reduce the break out/ tear out? 

 Ron


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## Blogwitch (Jan 9, 2010)

Glad to have been of help Phil.

Their other cutters, the two and four flute ones, are perfectly acceptable as well, not to the very highest standards, but the cost of them, including the tungsten ones, put them into the realms of true disposable cutters. I have a complete set of their round nosed cutters, and they are certainly well worth the money and cut very well indeed.

I was tipped off about the Richon site by another modeller when I was searching for small imperial cutters, and ever since, I have placed an order each month, as I find more items I can use in the shop.


Blogs


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## shred (Jan 9, 2010)

Blogwitch  said:
			
		

> Glad to have been of help Phil.
> 
> Their other cutters, the two and four flute ones, are perfectly acceptable as well, not to the very highest standards, but the cost of them, including the tungsten ones, put them into the realms of true disposable cutters. I have a complete set of their round nosed cutters, and they are certainly well worth the money and cut very well indeed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review Blogs... Those prices makes a set of metric cutters a lot less painful and they've got lots of decent-looking diamond tools for stone/glass work.


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## Majorstrain (Jan 25, 2010)

Got a little bit of time tonight between completing the Jarrah kitchen bench top and starting the over head cupboards.

I had stripped all the gear off the mill to do some more core samples for work, and didn't feel like putting it all back again just to clean up the edge of the flywheel. Yep I'm a lazy bugger. :
I slung an old fitted double bed sheet over the table and the column to keep everything covered.

I was going to hold the fixture I had made for spinning the flywheel on the mill table with a clamp or such, but then I remembered I had some 5x5x20mm rare earth magnets. 





They worked really well for holding the fixture in place while I turned the flywheel against the cup disc by hand.






Fear not, the sheet was further away than it looks in the picture and the disc is a smooth 600 grit. :hDe:






I used a few more magnets to hold the V block in place while I put a 45° chamfer on the edges.






After that I used some 40um and then some 0.5um diamond lapping compound to finish the sides of the flywheel. After a quick buff it looks alright.






There will be a bit more of a break before the next installment. Probably the cylinder block.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Noitoen (Jan 25, 2010)

One you can use to get those holes "polished" is to use some clear varnish. If you sand one of those plastic watch faces to remove the scratches with some fine sandpaper, the varnish will make it nice an transparent again so maybe it will also work on stone.


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## thayer (Jan 25, 2010)

I've done the same with a wipe of thin epoxy. Worked great for places that weren't getting a close inspection.

Thayer


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## Majorstrain (Jan 25, 2010)

Noitoen  said:
			
		

> One you can use to get those holes "polished" is to use some clear varnish. If you sand one of those plastic watch faces to remove the scratches with some fine sandpaper, the varnish will make it nice an transparent again so maybe it will also work on stone.





			
				thayer  said:
			
		

> I've done the same with a wipe of thin epoxy. Worked great for places that weren't getting a close inspection.



Thanks Noitoen and Thayer, That's just the information I needed. :bow: :bow:
I had noticed how the finish looked perfect when it was wet, but I didn't put two and two together.

Cheers
Phil


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## Noitoen (Jan 26, 2010)

Just remembered another detail I've seen at our local stone works. When they are polishing the also use a small torch to heat the stone a little to rub some wax on it. You should try these techniques on some scrap pieces to see the result.


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