# PC based DRO?



## Rivergypsy (Apr 3, 2013)

Just something that I've been pondering, but does anybody know of a PC based DRO system, please?

I've found Yadro on the net, but the boards are out of stock, but I keep wondering how feasible it is to build one myself. 

The other option would be something Arduino based. I've found one of these that works through an Android phone, but I'd be loathe to leave one of these next to flying swarf.

Any help or pointers gratefully recieved! 

Cheers
Dave


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## microcraft (Apr 3, 2013)

Android (or "Smartphones") have indeed become a big fixture of our lives.  However, I don't think they are yet up to the task of being a DRO display.  Imagine being in the middle of a tight tolerance cut and the phone rings 

I like the idea of dedicated devices for certain tasks and your PC Based DRO would fit the bill.


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## dman (Apr 3, 2013)

http://www.shumatech.com/web/products/dro-550/construction

this could be fun... also the source code may help you/someone write a dro application for a pc if you are set on the pc thing. you'll need to know how to read different encoders. also you could probably just use cnc software on a pc if it has support for different encoders.


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## n4zou (Apr 3, 2013)

microcraft said:


> Android (or "Smartphones") have indeed become a big fixture of our lives.  However, I don't think they are yet up to the task of being a DRO display.  Imagine being in the middle of a tight tolerance cut and the phone rings
> 
> I like the idea of dedicated devices for certain tasks and your PC Based DRO would fit the bill.



New Android Tablets can be found for less than $100 now. This makes them suitable for use as dedicated devices. 
*Do-it-yourself DRO with Arduino and Android *


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## lohring (Apr 3, 2013)

I built a YARDRO.  It needs a really old laptop with a serial connection, but the programming is open source.  I'm not sure the hardware is available any more.

Lohring Miller


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## dnalot (Apr 3, 2013)

You might look at Artsoft's Mach 3 cnc controller software. It is made to be used by almost any hardware and can be configured a 100.000 different ways. You can also make your own custom screen layout. I have used it since I built my CnC machine 13 years ago. It was version Mach 1 and I only paid $100, with a lifetime free upgrade. 

What do you plan to use for position senders?


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## Teus (Apr 3, 2013)

And then there is also *Caliper2PC*.


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## jgedde (Apr 3, 2013)

n4zou said:


> New Android Tablets can be found for less than $100 now. This makes them suitable for use as dedicated devices.
> *Do-it-yourself DRO with Arduino and Android *


 

That's slick!  I want one!

John


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## ycroosh (Apr 4, 2013)

John,
That's the old version. The new version is even slicker and easier to build  
On a serious note, I've been using Android tablet for a DRO for over a year now and a PC before that. (I built the first version in late 2011 when I first got the mini mill) and it's been pretty stable. I had more trouble with the scales being sensitive to noise and ground loops than with the tablet itself. 

Thank you
Yuriy


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## Rivergypsy (Apr 4, 2013)

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your feedback on this 

I'd planned on using quadrature scales, and also a rotary encoder on the lathe spindle for angular display for live tooling use, and switchable to rpm for general use. 

The Arduino solution looks neat, and i already have one of them, but I do like to get hot swarf pinging around, so I'd like the display to be pretty robust. The Shumtech again looks neat, but it's out of stock at the mo, so I'll give them a chase up.

If I went the Mach3 route, is it likely to confuse it if it has no motors connected?

Sorry for what may be dumb questions, but i'm a lot more comfortable with mechanics than electronics... 

Many thanks
Dave


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## zoltan (Jun 18, 2013)

I just went with the Android DRO route using my old phone, and I'm really quite happy with the result. It's easy to use, and easy to upgrade if I want to.

http://benchtopmachineshop.blogspot.com/2013/06/android-dro.html


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## jwcnc1911 (Jun 18, 2013)

Oh this is awesome!

I think an old 7" tablet would be perfect!

  I literally was just about to order the 3 axis kit from Techno:

http://www.star-techno.com/INFO.HTM

I'm more into do it myself any way.  I'll have to dig deeper into this... a portable DRO screen.  That'd be easy to do upclose work with tiny tools... lay it right by the vise and move in close.  Don't even say anything about safety... we all do it.


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## ZipSnipe (Jun 18, 2013)

Careful do not clik that link in post #11 , something weird just happened to my pc , I am running virus scans now!!!


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## zoltan (Jun 18, 2013)

ZipSnipe said:


> Careful do not clik that link in post #11 , something weird just happened to my pc , I am running virus scans now!!!


That's my link, and there's nothing wrong with it. It goes to my blog on blogspot and it doesn't even have ads. If something weird happened to your PC, it wasn't from my link.


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## ZipSnipe (Jun 18, 2013)

Yep sorry Zoltan, it might have been from the sight before yours, just adware so nothing serious, I will try the link again here in a sec once my last scan is complete.

Its been a while since I have come across a malware site that basically takes over your browser and thats what I thought I was encountering when I hit your link.


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## ZipSnipe (Jun 18, 2013)

Link is good loads fine, better safe than sorry.   So please accept my apologies for the false alarm zoltan.


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## zoltan (Jun 22, 2013)

Just finished packaging up the Android DRO, and I'm really quite pleased with how it turned out:
http://benchtopmachineshop.blogspot.com/2013/06/packaging-my-android-dro.html


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## Rivergypsy (Jun 22, 2013)

Nice work, Zoltan! I've got a Kindle Fire here with a duff USB port that I think I'll try and ressurect for this


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## ZipSnipe (Jun 22, 2013)

So your 3 axis will plug into the box and then into your pc or tablet?

Looks good!!!


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## zoltan (Jun 22, 2013)

The three axis plug into the box, and the box communicates with my Android phone or tablet via Bluetooth. There is no direct connection between the box and phone/tablet, and the phone/tablet needs to have Bluetooth capability. The cable coming out of the box is for power only. The app is written for Android 3.0 or greater, so I don't see it working with a PC.


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## zoltan (Jun 22, 2013)

The Bluetooth is also nice because you can move the display around wherever you want without wires getting in the way.


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## jwcnc1911 (Jun 22, 2013)

Zoltan, thanks for your help!  I've order all the components!  I'll be in a pretty awesome DRO for less than $300!


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## ycroosh (Jun 22, 2013)

zoltan said:


> The three axis plug into the box, and the box communicates with my Android phone or tablet via Bluetooth. There is no direct connection between the box and phone/tablet, and the phone/tablet needs to have Bluetooth capability. The cable coming out of the box is for power only. The app is written for Android 3.0 or greater, so I don't see it working with a PC.



The Android version doesn't indeed work with a PC but if a PC version is desirable I can post my initial prototype that works with Windows. 
(it doesn't have much functionality [yet, I guess])

Thank you
Yuriy


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## zoltan (Jun 23, 2013)

jwcnc1911 said:


> Zoltan, thanks for your help!  I've order all the components!  I'll be in a pretty awesome DRO for less than $300!


Agreed. You'll also be able to browse the web, watch movies, and listen to music on it. How many other DROs can do that?


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## /// (Jun 23, 2013)

I was looking at Android DRO a few months back. I couldn't decide in which 7" tablet to buy.
Was thinking about a Nexus7 32GB, which I could use for other things too(reading PDF's in bed etc) but it is pretty pricey, so decided to think about it some more.
Thinking now I might just buy a cheapie $100 7" tablet and get this done.

Hope Yuri makes some updates soon, has been a while. Having all the features of a good DRO (PCD etc) would be awesome.


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## ycroosh (Jun 24, 2013)

/// said:


> I was looking at Android DRO a few months back. I couldn't decide in which 7" tablet to buy.
> Was thinking about a Nexus7 32GB, which I could use for other things too(reading PDF's in bed etc) but it is pretty pricey, so decided to think about it some more.
> Thinking now I might just buy a cheapie $100 7" tablet and get this done.
> 
> Hope Yuri makes some updates soon, has been a while. Having all the features of a good DRO (PCD etc) would be awesome.



Simon,
I'm still working on it. For some reason for the last 3-4 years March-May turn out to be crazy busy (work, home, school etc.), so I get little or no time for play in Spring. 
Based on the feedback and my own usage I want to add some features ASAP:

USB support (for some reason this has been #1 feature request)
Tool offset functionality
Hole circle/hole pattern functions
Multiple encoders per axis (my new mill now has a quill...  )
More UI settings (number of digits before/after the dot, font size etc.)

Don't know if I can pull this off and test in a month but I'm hoping to at least have it ready for beta testing in 2-3 weeks...

Thank you
Yuriy


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## /// (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi Yuriy, great news.
Please don't take my previous comment as criticism, I know exactly how it feels to have no play time


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## Rivergypsy (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi Yuriy,

Can I add one more suggestion, please? One thing I really do want on my lathe is to add a spindle encoder, and have the DRO able to display either rpm or angular position from it... 

Fingers crossed,
Dave


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## jwcnc1911 (Jun 24, 2013)

ycroosh said:


> Simon,
> I'm still working on it. For some reason for the last 3-4 years March-May turn out to be crazy busy (work, home, school etc.), so I get little or no time for play in Spring.
> Based on the feedback and my own usage I want to add some features ASAP:
> 
> ...



You read my mind!  I'm hoping to start setting min up in a few weeks when all of my stuff comes in.  I still have a laptop issue to sort which is primary as it earns me money.  I'm glad to see you on here... I've been watching your blog.  Would you mind if i pm you about other features?


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## zoltan (Jun 24, 2013)

A feed rate display would be really nice, especially for those of us without power feed.

A "nearing zero" warning might also be nice.


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## ycroosh (Jun 24, 2013)

zoltan said:


> A feed rate display would be really nice, especially for those of us without power feed.
> 
> A "nearing zero" warning might also be nice.



OK, since you guys went there ... 

First of all, I've been working (on and off) on a separate version for the lathe. (I got a "new" lathe a few months ago and already mounted the gauges on the bed and cross slide). There are a few things that I want to add that don't make sense on the mill UI, so a separate version or at least a way to switch the interface is a must. 
Two things I *really* want on the lathe DRO is a function to compensate for the compound rest angle and a tachometer. Having a  "nearing zero" warning wouldn't hurt either. (mill or lathe)


On the hardware side I'm probably going to move away from Arduino to an ARM Based board. Arduino doesn't have enough "horse power" to handle 4-5 quadrature inputs (3 or 4 scales and a tachometer) unless you move up to "Due" or at least "Mega". (Even Mega is struggling with 4 Chinese calipers though). 
There is a good chance the "heavy duty" version of the controller will run on Netduino or FEZ Cerb40 board. Those are a bit more expensive ($30-$60) but are still DIY-friendly. I have both of those (on my kitchen counter) waiting for their turn  If they end up working semi-decently, adding the extra displays to the UI is no big deal.

In any case, than you for the feedback and suggestions. I will keep you posted as those things are added.


Thank you
Yuriy


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## ycroosh (Jun 24, 2013)

jwcnc1911 said:


> You read my mind!  I'm hoping to start setting min up in a few weeks when all of my stuff comes in.  I still have a laptop issue to sort which is primary as it earns me money.  I'm glad to see you on here... I've been watching your blog.  Would you mind if i pm you about other features?



Not at all.


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## ycroosh (Jul 13, 2013)

ycroosh said:


> Not at all.



I know this is an older post but just in case people come across it in future...

I finally got around to spending some time on the project (and the blog). I know that the information has been all over the place and (judging from the emails I get) people were getting a bit frustrated. I put together a page that gathers the relevant info in one place here: http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html. 
Additionally I was able to finish two detailed construction guides: one for the Arduino version and one for the [much cheaper] MSP430 version. 

I hope this will make life easier for people trying to build this DRO.

Thank you
Yuriy


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## Rivergypsy (Jul 19, 2013)

Hi Yuriy

Just a quick brain pick, please, but I can't get my kindle fire on to google play, so is there another route for downloading your for, please?

Thanks,
Dave


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## ycroosh (Jul 19, 2013)

Rivergypsy said:


> Hi Yuriy
> 
> Just a quick brain pick, please, but I can't get my kindle fire on to google play, so is there another route for downloading your for, please?
> 
> ...



Dave,
There is a link to the current "APK" file on the DRO Project Downloads page. You should be able to install it following this guide:
http://www.technipages.com/kindle-fire-how-to-install-apk-files.html (I don't have a Kindle fire, so can't relly "confirm or deny" that the guide is accurate). 

Thank you
Yuriy

P.S. If you installed your Arduino sketch before yesterday, please grab the new version while you're at it... there was a small bug in V. 2.1


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## proff11 (Jul 28, 2013)

Hello guys:
Check out my old files page; everything is there for an old PC type DRO.

http://www.angelfire.com/az2/proff/files.html

Paul Jones
www.cnconabudget.com


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## proff11 (Jul 30, 2013)

Plus, I have the manual and two worked examples. Sorry, I forgot to mention that before. If there's any interest, I can scan the manual to *PDF.


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## pkastagehand (Sep 6, 2013)

Hi Yuriy,

On your website you mention problems with an ARM type processor based unit.  I presume that would mean Raspberry Pi might not be a good choice since it is based on the ARM?  At 35 or so bucks and running linux which I've been trying to learn/mess with I wondered about it as a DRO reader...  maybe I need to rethink and go with Arduino or the TI MSP...

Paul


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## ycroosh (Sep 6, 2013)

pkastagehand said:


> Hi Yuriy,
> 
> On your website you mention problems with an ARM type processor based unit.  I presume that would mean Raspberry Pi might not be a good choice since it is based on the ARM?  At 35 or so bucks and running linux which I've been trying to learn/mess with I wondered about it as a DRO reader...  maybe I need to rethink and go with Arduino or the TI MSP...
> 
> Paul



Paul,
The problem with ARM micro controllers is the added complexity. Since I intended the project to be community-friendly I had to be mindful of the technical skill level of the "target audience". Arduino software is relatively easy to set up and use compared to GNU tool chain with Eclipse etc., With that said, I had to switch to ARM for the "mixed scale" version because MSP430 was simply not fast/flexible enough to read glass scales.
I haven't had time to play with Raspberry PI that much (have one sitting in my MCU box) but I imagine that you will have issues with timing, unless all you intend to use is iGaging scales. In that case it's up to you  I will definitely be a good learning exercise. Compared to the Arduino or MSP430, Raspberry PI is a super-computer 

Thank you
Yuriy


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## pkastagehand (Sep 6, 2013)

Well, I haven't investigated this too deeply yet so options are still open.  I did put Model B Pi on my wishlist for inexpensive Christmas giving in case wife or any of the kids is looking for something for me.  

Is there source code out there for what's been done so far in terms of reading/displaying?  I know I would have to figure out how to compile and what includes I would need, etc.

Also, being a newb in terms of DRO, is there a primer/FAQ on the types of slides and pros/cons, etc.?  The iGauge slides are glass you say?

Thanks for all the help from everyone who has contributed to this thread.

Paul


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## ycroosh (Sep 7, 2013)

pkastagehand said:


> Well, I haven't investigated this too deeply yet so options are still open.  I did put Model B Pi on my wishlist for inexpensive Christmas giving in case wife or any of the kids is looking for something for me.
> 
> Is there source code out there for what's been done so far in terms of reading/displaying?  I know I would have to figure out how to compile and what includes I would need, etc.
> 
> ...



Paul,
All of my source code is available (linked from the site) but it won't help you much. The display is Adnroid-specific and is written in Java. Reading iGaging scales is brain-dead easy compared to any other scales and is as simple as looping 21 times while toggling the clock and reading the data line on the low edge. The other scales are MUCH more difficult. I've gotten a semi-working prototype but it's horribly unstable. I'm working a newer version that uses a more powerful MCU and will post the details once it's 'stable'. 

There is no good primer on reading the scales. Take a look at these posts:

Harbor Freight Caliper Data Format
Mixed Linear Scale DRO with MSP430 Launchpad
Reading Grizzly iGaging DRO Scales with Arduino

This might give you a bit of "food for thought". 
Glass scales are a completely different animal. They add another level of complexity because unlike the caliper-like scales, it's 100% to keep track of position. If you miss clicks with iGaging scales, 1/25th of a second later you can re-read the position. With glass scales, if you miss a pulse, your position will be off from that point on. At 20000 pulses per inch. At one inch per second you have a a bit over microsecond to process each scale's input and get ready for the next one.

Regards
Yuriy


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## Wizard69 (Sep 7, 2013)

ycroosh said:


> This might give you a bit of "food for thought".
> Glass scales are a completely different animal. They add another level of complexity because unlike the caliper-like scales, it's 100% to keep track of position. If you miss clicks with iGaging scales, 1/25th of a second later you can re-read the position. With glass scales, if you miss a pulse, your position will be off from that point on. At 20000 pulses per inch. At one inch per second you have a a bit over microsecond to process each scale's input and get ready for the next one.
> 
> Regards
> Yuriy



For quadrature encoded scales or encoders you might want to consider the use of interface chips to reduce the CPU burden.   Yeah this adds an additional expenses and makes for a more difficult board layout.  Or go with a CPU chip with a more advanced counter timer facility.  Here are some links if you aren't familiar with the hardware out there:

http://www.usdigital.com/products/interfaces/ics/LFLS7083
http://www.usdigital.com/products/interfaces/ics/LFLS7183-S
http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/m...cts/integrated_circuits/decoder_ic/hctl-2022/
http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/m.../integrated_circuits/decoder_ic/hctl-2032-sc/
http://www.ichaus.de/keyword/i/o ics
http://www.boondog.com/tutorials/mouse/hctl2000.pdf

There are actually many more varying in complexity and cost.   Also don't forget that the likes of Texas Instruments and Micro Chip PIC which have many embedded ICs with built in quadrature decoders.     Knowing that these sorts of hardware solutions add costs, below you will find some links to different solutions to solve the quadrature interface issue.  

http://www.engr.mun.ca/~nick/eng5951/Optical Encoder.ppt
http://www.rocketnumbernine.com/2010/03/06/decoding-a-rotary-encoder
http://www.robotshop.com/ca/pdf/rbsum05-wheel-encoder-spec.pdf.    (Nicely drawn truth table here with this your most efficient code can be realized)
http://forums.parallax.com/showthre...-pasm-code-for-a-gray-code-quadrature-encoder
http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~jfr/embeddedctrls/files/Lab2_W09.pdf
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=62118.  (Long thread from one frustrated implementer)
http://makeatronics.blogspot.com/2013/02/efficiently-reading-quadrature-with.html
http://www.circuitsathome.com/mcu/reading-rotary-encoder-on-arduino/

Those might help.   There is actually a better site out there someplace that describes the use of the truth tale described in item 3 above.    I can't find that site so maybe these will help.   In any event getting a CPU to read one quadrature input reliably is a job in and of itself, o do three or more is a bit of a reliability stretch if you ask me.   Even the use of simple chips that convert the signals to count & direction or to up and down signals greatly simplify things

One option of course is chips with hardware support for quadrature signals.   This can be had either with specialized hardware or enhanced counter modules.  If you really want to do an all software solution consider a Parallax Propeller chip.   

Best of luck.


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## pkastagehand (Sep 12, 2013)

Can iGage slides be shortened?  My mill (U.S. Burke Millrite) y feed is about 9 inches.  I only see 6 and 12 inch slides...too short or too long.  I don't see a measurement for the over all length but I'm worried the 12 inches might not even fit; might hang out too far in front to be safe.

Similarly the table x feed is around 20 inches but the slides are 24 inches although I think the slide would fit within the table size simply leaving some unused slide at each end.

Paul


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## ycroosh (Sep 12, 2013)

pkastagehand said:


> Can iGage slides be shortened?  My mill (U.S. Burke Millrite) y feed is about 9 inches.  I only see 6 and 12 inch slides...too short or too long.  I don't see a measurement for the over all length but I'm worried the 12 inches might not even fit; might hang out too far in front to be safe.
> 
> Similarly the table x feed is around 20 inches but the slides are 24 inches although I think the slide would fit within the table size simply leaving some unused slide at each end.
> 
> Paul



Yes, quite easily. I cut mine on the mill, but beware of the fiberglass PCB (the black strip on top) that will dull an end mill in a hurry.

Thank you
Yuriy


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## rkadrmas (Nov 5, 2013)

ycroosh said:


> Paul,
> The problem with ARM micro controllers is the added complexity. Since I intended the project to be community-friendly I had to be mindful of the technical skill level of the "target audience". Arduino software is relatively easy to set up and use compared to GNU tool chain with Eclipse etc., With that said, I had to switch to ARM for the "mixed scale" version because MSP430 was simply not fast/flexible enough to read glass scales.
> I haven't had time to play with Raspberry PI that much (have one sitting in my MCU box) but I imagine that you will have issues with timing, unless all you intend to use is iGaging scales. In that case it's up to you  I will definitely be a good learning exercise. Compared to the Arduino or MSP430, Raspberry PI is a super-computer
> 
> ...




One option may be to use the Maple board which has an ST Micro ARM M3 and the arduino format.  I have some of these for a project but have not used them yet.  I have done several designs using the ST Micro ARM chip.

http://leaflabs.com/devices/maple/
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10664
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/leaf-maple-cortex-m3-p-670.html


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## ycroosh (Nov 6, 2013)

rkadrmas said:


> One option may be to use the Maple board which has an ST Micro ARM M3 and the arduino format.  I have some of these for a project but have not used them yet.  I have done several designs using the ST Micro ARM chip.
> 
> http://leaflabs.com/devices/maple/
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10664
> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/leaf-maple-cortex-m3-p-670.html



I'm almost done with the new version of MSP430 firmware and so far the MCU handles four scales of any type pretty well. Four quadrature encoders (two glass scales and two rotary encoders in my case) pose no issues even when I moved them by had at "warp speeds". The real bottkeneck is UART, actually. 
If I were to switch to ARM (which I probably will), there is a number of cheaper options. TI's Tiva (formerly Stellaris) and STM Discovery boards sell for well under $20 shipped. The (very) first version of the DRO used STM32VL Discovery and that MCU was able to handle scales, 3 displays (7-segment), keypad and more. 

Thank you
Yuriy


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## Teus (Nov 16, 2013)

Just ran into this one:

Mdro PC digital readout

Software free to download and evaluate in demo mode without interface.

Someone any experiance with this one?


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## pkastagehand (Jun 2, 2014)

Hi Yuiry,

I have been busy but finally acquired an Uno (Arduino) and shield and assembled my reisistors, etc. and put together the interface.  I get readings for x, y and z in the serial monitor with the Uno hooked through USB to my laptop.  So that all seems to work.  I did the mini USB breakout boards.  Have yet to encase it...

I still don't have a tablet with bluetooth and while I could go buy one I wondered if anything was happening on the USB idea?  And would that run on any device running Java or would it still have to be Android powered?  I'm thinking I've got an old Dell laptop that could become my dedicated DRO device if I can USB to it.

Paul


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## zoltan (Oct 27, 2014)

The mill just received a tachometer courtesy of TouchDRO:
http://benchtopmachineshop.blogspot.com/2014/10/mill-arduino-dro-tachometer.html

Also, the lathe received the TouchDRO treatment as well:
http://benchtopmachineshop.blogspot.com/2014/10/lathe-arduino-touchdro.html


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