# triangle non dead center compound or simple steam engine



## jon skorepa (May 26, 2011)

does any one have plans or good photos i think i would like try to make one. i am wondering about the triangle to get the geometry correct. thank you for any help. jon


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## Tin Falcon (May 26, 2011)

Jon:
 not sure what you are asking here. 
first of all and introduction would be nice . tell us a bit about yourself your shop an your interest in model engine building. 

Tin


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## steamer (May 26, 2011)

Hi Jon,

I know what your talking about.  Paul Jacobs has a casting set for one in Home Shop Machinist or perhaps it was Live Steam. If you go to those sites, and scan through, you'll find the issues and be able to get a copy.

Dave


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## ruzzie (May 26, 2011)

This might be what your after

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=3923.0

http://knowledgepublications.com/vehicles/Steam_and_Stirling_2_detail.htm about 1/2 way down

Cheers 
Paul


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## Jasonb (May 27, 2011)

Anthony Mount also described one in Engineering In Miniature which will have the drawings in. Bruce Engineering sell the casting kit and separate drawings.

Jason


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## jon skorepa (May 27, 2011)

tin falcon and all i have been interested in steam engines since childhood my grandfather grew up in the age when steam ruled. he was an operating,hoisting,and stationary engineer, three tickets. now i am retired and want to build a steam engine,mono tube boiler and find a cast off boat that is repairable to install the power plant along with a kitchens rudder their by no need for reversing link.a friend and i have access to an under used old machine shop we own welding gear and have access to a nice wood shop.thank you for the help.


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## steamer (May 27, 2011)

Hey Jon,

Been there!  ;D

Let me know How I can help!

Dave


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## EMARCH55 (Feb 9, 2012)

I built one you want pix


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## moconnor (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello All,

*EMARCH55*-- Please post the pictures of your NDC-1 build. Besides myself, I am certain many others would love to see them.

A few months ago, I e-mailed Paul Jacobs hoping to buy a set of castings for this engine. Here is his reply:

Hello Mike,

Sorry, but the NDC castings are no longer available. Sales died a long time ago and I let my stock run out. Now I don't even know where all the patterns are. It's really a shame because I think it is one of my best models.

Paul

It really is too bad, because I think that his NDC-1 is a very beautiful model and is quite different from the usual subject that is modeled.

In the *"Steam & Stirling Book 2"*, Mr Jacob's drawings for the engine are published for machining his kit of castings. Therefore, as-cast details are not dimensioned. The most important information that is missing are the internal details of the as-cast steam porting in the cylinder block. There appears to be enough detail and dimensions given to be able to build the model from barstock fabrications if the porting details were known. Unfortunately, I don't have the expertise to fill-in the blanks regarding these missing details as I am a newcomer to this type (steam) of model building. However, if anyone who has built this engine can provide some photos or details of the internal porting, it would be much appreciated.

Also, if anyone has a set of these castings tucked away in a cupboard that they would like to sell, please let me know.

Regards,
Mike


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## EMARCH55 (Feb 11, 2012)

I will take pix and figure out how to send them
the engine not from castings but from picture,
there are no plans but I could make some.


Earl


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## moconnor (Feb 12, 2012)

Hello,

For anyone who may be interested in building a model of the Musgrave Non-Dead Center Engine and was frustrated by the lack of internal steam porting details in Paul Jacob's plans which were published in 'Steam & Stirling Book 2', there was a series of articles published in Model Engineer a few years ago that show the internal details of the cylinder head.

From what I found after doing some looking yesterday, a German craftsman, Lothar Matrian, has a very nice kit of castings available for the same Musgrave engine. His contact information (from the M.E article: E-Mail [email protected]) This is from the 2009 article. It is the kit that was documented in M.E. by Karl Konrad. These are the issues:

"Musgrave Non-Dead Center Engine" by Karl Konrad

Part 1 M.E. Vol.202 No.4350 24 April - 7 May 2009
Part 2 M.E. Vol.202 No.4352 22 May - 4 June 2009
Part 3 M.E. Vol.202 No.4354 19 June - 2 July 2009

On the second page (p.513) of the article in Part 1, there is a cross section of the engine that shows the internal details of the steam porting. This was modeled from the actual engine that exists, the only one of this type at The Northern Mill Engine Society Collection at the Bolton Steam Museum (UK). Photos of this engine and a video clip of it running is available from www.nmes.org

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9fng1xc4cI&list=UU_eZd10BW0fwbIU-D6VWQvA&index=9&feature=plcp[/ame]

The engine that was scaled by Paul Jacobs in 1992 from a photograph of the large scale model at the Science Museum in London (that is attributed to John Musgrave, 1843) is very similar to the current Lothar Matrian kit of castings with the main difference being a larger cast base incorporating the outboard support. The Matrian kit looks to be extremely high quality brass castings and from the examples of his work that I have read about on the web, I would expect them to be nothing less than that. His work is simply amazing.

The drawing details of the individual components are not shown in the article, other than the cross sections that I mentioned. I also read that the drawing for the Matrian kit are not available separately, although that information was second hand as I have not e-mailed him for kit information as yet. However, with the internal details of the Musgrave engine cylinder head from the M.E. article and the Paul Jacobs drawings in the 'Steam & Stirling Book 2', there should be enough information available to build a fabricated version of the Musgrave engine.

I can't show any of the photos of the M.E. articles that I found because they are all copyright protected. However, if you subscribe to Model Engineer, you can view the digital version of the back issues mentioned above on their website. http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/

The digital issues of M.E. go back to August of 2001 and the issues of M.E.W. or Model Engineers Workshop go all the way back to the beginning of issue #1. It is a great resource and access is included with the price of the annual subscription.

I did find a photo of the poster that is displayed next to the engine at the Science Museum in London.

Regards,
Mike


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