# Inexpensive DRO from Grizzly



## cfellows (Jan 12, 2010)

Got my 2 DRO's from Grizzly today. Thought I'd post a few pictures and brief description. These look like they'll be perfect for my Mill/Drill.

The cable is about 52" long. It has what looks like a USB plug on the readout end and is hardwired into the slider on the scale. You can probably use this with another scale, but you would need a separate wire.

According to the box, this a readout for a router lift, router table & planer. It comes with 4 pieces for mounting brackets and a plastic foot which slides onto the bottom of the readout for mountong on a flat, horizontal surface. There are the slotted holes in the back of the readout as well as two recessed magnets for mounting. Overall length of the scale, including the mounting feet is about 11". One interesting note is that the read, in the inch mode, displays both decimal and fractional values. The fraction can be set to 32nds, 64ths, or 128ths. Let me know if you have any questions.





























http://www.grizzly.com/products/0-6-Digital-Fractional-Horizontal-Vertical-Remote-Scale/T21577
Chuck


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## black85vette (Jan 12, 2010)

Got mine today also Chuck. One of the questions was if you could use it with one of the longer scales. I will not be able to answer that but can give some information. The sensor part slides along a scale that is .160" x .784" (4mm x 20mm).  It has some embedded material that the sensors read.  I have included a close up of them. I don't have any thing like this but for some of you who have some other DRO scales see if this sensor might fit on one that is longer.

It may just be a matter of time. If this sells they should follow up with longer ones.


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## Twmaster (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks for the info guys. That strip should be capacitive. I want to buy two of those but I'm in th emiddle of a move so I need all the cash and truck space I can get. I'm going to start tearing my workshop down Thursday. I hate moving.


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## slick95 (Jan 12, 2010)

Great find Chuck 

I have a Micro Mark mini mill that I just need to have the Z axis on DRO. You think this would work out?

_Thanks..._
Jeff


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## Diy89 (Jan 12, 2010)

With a quick google of the company, their website lists one that is 10" long. Another quick google turned up only one other vendor, Eagle America, who sells the 6 but no listing for the 10.


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## around (Jan 12, 2010)

Just in case you have not seen it, here is the link to the SHUMATECH DIY DROs:

http://www.shumatech.com/web/products/dro-350

I built a DRO-350 for my Grizzly 0619 Mill/drill. I purchased the PCB from one of the suppliers and went from there. There is a great support group on YAHOO Groups if you run into problems.

My 0619 has a Z axis indicator already that was easily attached to the DRO. I purchased the standard Chinese scales from an E-Bay supplier and then mounted them on the x,y axis.

I have been very happy with the results. Great for drilling bolt hole patterns!

Cheers,

Adrian


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 12, 2010)

Adrian!

Welcome to the forum.

I'm in the middle (or maybe closer to beginning) of putting a DRO 350 together for my mill and lathe.

Tell us some more about yourself and what you're up to.


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## Hilmar (Jan 12, 2010)

I wonder if they sell the" Read Out " separate?
Hilmar


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## cfellows (Jan 12, 2010)

Hilmar  said:
			
		

> I wonder if they sell the" Read Out " separate?
> Hilmar



I've seen the readouts separate, but none cheaper than $69 on Ebay. For $23 & some change, you can by this unit, throw the scale away, and still have a bargain.



			
				slick95  said:
			
		

> Great find Chuck
> 
> I have a Micro Mark mini mill that I just need to have the Z axis on DRO. You think this would work out?
> 
> ...



I'd like to take credit, but I didn't find this. It was pointed out by winklmj over here:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=7539.0



			
				around  said:
			
		

> Just in case you have not seen it, here is the link to the SHUMATECH DIY DROs:
> 
> http://www.shumatech.com/web/products/dro-350
> 
> ...



I've been considering the Shumatech, but at $59 for two of these from Grizzly, I didn't consider for long. All I'm really interested in is the milling table position on my mill. Don't need the fancy bits that the Shumatech and others like it offer. Also, it's easier to hide $59 from the Chief Financial Officer than $159 + scales for the Shumatech. 

Chuck


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## cfellows (Jan 12, 2010)

slick95  said:
			
		

> Great find Chuck
> 
> I have a Micro Mark mini mill that I just need to have the Z axis on DRO. You think this would work out?
> 
> ...



This unit is probably too long for the z axis on the mini mill. The scale is 11" long. For a minimill, I would consider something like this with integral readout.

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-100mm-VERT-DIGITAL-QUILL-DRO-KIT-BRIDGEPORT-READOUT_W0QQitemZ310123837415QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4834d237e7

Chuck


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## black85vette (Jan 12, 2010)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> I've seen the readouts separate, but none cheaper than $69 on Ebay. For $23 & some change, you can by this unit, throw the scale away, and still have a bargain. Chuck



Don't think this will work as a display for other units. The remote displays and DRO units use a serial interface coming off the display unit (brain) attached to the scale. On this unit the remote display has all the smarts and the output of the scale appears to be raw sensor reads going to the brain. Not 100% sure of this yet. Need to get up the nerve to disassemble my new unit and put the signals on an O'scope.


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## Hilmar (Jan 12, 2010)

Chuck
    I have three Digital scales on my X2 Mini Mill. 
 Two H8134 s 12" total length 16" for the X and Z axis
 and one H8133 8" total length 12"  for the Y axis 
 All three are from Grizzly. They fit fine. The read out is integral for all three.
 That is why the solo question
 Hilmar


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## websterz (Jan 12, 2010)

Dagnabbit...something else I have to buy!! ;D

What's the power source?


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## shred (Jan 12, 2010)

Man, I jumped on that a day late and now mine's back ordered a month... 

I'm plotting to use it as a tailstock DRO to replace my now-flaking out calipers.


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## websterz (Jan 13, 2010)

shred  said:
			
		

> Man, I jumped on that a day late and now mine's back ordered a month...
> 
> I'm plotting to use it as a tailstock DRO to replace my now-flaking out calipers.



I ordered 2 of them a few hours ago...I probably snatched them out from under you.  :big:

It's funny the power we collectively wield over a company's inventory in a situation like this.


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## JimM (Jan 13, 2010)

They look great and a fantastic price too

Especially like the fact that it looks like they display the fractional measurement as well as the decimal !

Guarantee if they ever start to sell them over here though (I'm in the UK) that the price won't be half as good !!


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## slick95 (Jan 13, 2010)

Got two of them on the way . Will use for the mill table then figure out what to do for the quill. 

Thanks
Jeff


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## black85vette (Jan 13, 2010)

The price is not as good but American Eagle sells them also. $49 I think.


Websterz; power is two CR2032 3v lithium batteries. Should last longer than the digital calipers.


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## websterz (Jan 13, 2010)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> The price is not as good but American Eagle sells them also. $49 I think.
> 
> 
> Websterz; power is two CR2032 3v lithium batteries. Should last longer than the digital calipers.



6 volt wall warts are easy to come by. :big:


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## shred (Jan 13, 2010)

websterz  said:
			
		

> I ordered 2 of them a few hours ago...I probably snatched them out from under you.  :big:
> 
> It's funny the power we collectively wield over a company's inventory in a situation like this.



Naah, I ordered them a day or two after the original posting... got a 'back ordered until Feb 2010' e-mail in return.

Today I get a "Your order has shipped" e-mail.  ??? ???

hopefully not a return then


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## Powder keg (Jan 13, 2010)

Could the scale on thses be shortened? The travel on my mill's spindle is three inches I think.

Thanks,


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## Twmaster (Jan 13, 2010)

Should be not a huge issue to shorten. You'll need a cut off wheel to do a quick clean job.


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## websterz (Jan 14, 2010)

I got a shipping confirmation on my two today. Supposed to be here early next week. ;D


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## SAM in LA (Jan 14, 2010)

Grizzly sent me an email saying they just received a shipment today and I should get mine early next week.


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## black85vette (Jan 14, 2010)

Diy89  said:
			
		

> With a quick google of the company, their website lists one that is 10" long. Another quick google turned up only one other vendor, Eagle America, who sells the 6 but no listing for the 10.



Not sure if we can actually influence this or not. I went over to Grizzly's website and sent an email to their customer service department asking if they could carry the 10" scale also. Got a reply that the suggestion was forwarded. How about EVERYONE send them a note and ask for it?

See update


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## black85vette (Jan 15, 2010)

Here is the deal with the 10" scale directly from iGaging the distributor;

_Hi Rick,

Thanks for the email. 
1. For 10", it is still under development and it will not be avaiable for at least another 3 months. _


So, it is on its way but not available yet.


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## websterz (Jan 15, 2010)

Can't wait for that one to hit the shelf. That will be just about perfect for the x2's z-axis.


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## black85vette (Jan 16, 2010)

I have been emailing the distributor and may have an option. He says he can have the rails (with no display) cut to order and would consider a minimum order to produce them. I have no price yet but my first question is "how long"?  I know the 10" would work on my x2 just fine. That is 10" of measured TRAVEL, the scale is longer than that by 4 inches to allow for the sliding part and end mounts. So for this to be useful for the most people what is the longest scale (travel) needed for X3 or other import mills?

Biggest question: is there even any interest in longer scales to bother with this? Let me know what you think.


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## Seanol (Jan 16, 2010)

I have a 6 x 26 and would be interested in something longer for the x axis, maybe 20". 

10" for the y is more than enough.


Thank you for hunting down this information. This may be a way to get a DRO past SWMBO!

Sean


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## cfellows (Jan 16, 2010)

I could use a 20" length. I wonder if we could cut these to length ourselves, if we bulk ordered on standard size? That brings up another question. 

Is one end any different than the other? How does the electronics in the slider know which end is which?

Chuck


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## websterz (Jan 16, 2010)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> I have been emailing the distributor and may have an option. He says he can have the rails (with no display) cut to order and would consider a minimum order to produce them. I have no price yet but my first question is "how long"? I know the 10" would work on my x2 just fine. That is 10" of measured TRAVEL, the scale is longer than that by 4 inches to allow for the sliding part and end mounts. So for this to be useful for the most people what is the longest scale (travel) needed for X3 or other import mills?
> 
> Biggest question: is there even any interest in longer scales to bother with this? Let me know what you think.



I'd love to have a 10 or 12 inch rail for my mil column!


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## Powder keg (Jan 16, 2010)

I ordered one yesterday. I'm planing on shortening it for the quill on my mill. I'll take pictures\o/


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## black85vette (Jan 16, 2010)

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> I ordered one yesterday. I'm planing on shortening it for the quill on my mill. I'll take pictures\o/



Give us an update when you shorten it. Should be no issue but it will be nice to hear from some one with first hand knowledge.


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## black85vette (Jan 16, 2010)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Is one end any different than the other? How does the electronics in the slider know which end is which?
> Chuck



Chuck you got me curious so I pulled the scale out and stuck it in the other way.  Does not make a difference. Works the same either way.


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## cfellows (Jan 16, 2010)

I tried reading through this website which describes how the chinese scales work...

http://www.yadro.de/digital-scale/working.html

I have to confess, I haven't a clue how these things work. If one end of the scale is just like the other, how does the slider know where it is when you turn it off, then back on? Even if you move the slider while the unit is off.

Chuck


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## black85vette (Jan 18, 2010)

Easy so far. Got the first scale mounted without any great effort.  Ended up just mounting it to the frame of the X2. Then put a vertical bracket on the back of the sensor and made a spacer to fill the gap to the table. I cut the end off the rear scale mount to let the rail stick through. The frame gets kind of rounded towards the back so I wanted the mount closer to the front. Since I have not cut the rail I drilled a new mounting hole near the bottom where I could get to it. Ran it the table back and forth a couple of times to adjust the height of the mounts and eliminate any binding.  Appears to work well.

One note of caution if someone else mounts like this. The top screw securing the sensor to the bed is fairly low and you run the risk of drilling right into the dovetail if you aren't watching.  You can use a longer bracket on the back of the sensor and put the screw higher or you can just be careful.


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## Troutsqueezer (Jan 19, 2010)

black85vette, 

Glad to see you're paving the way for this. Thanks for taking the trouble to document. As soon as you get the X axis done, I'll probably put in my order for a couple, or three. 

My thanks to Chuck as well. 

-Trout


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## shred (Jan 19, 2010)

I got mine yesterday and it looks like it'll be a good fit on the 12x36 tailstock. The reader head was a little looser fit than I'd like, so there may be some backlash and error in there, but for things like tailstock use it should be fine.


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## Noitoen (Jan 19, 2010)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> How does the slider know where it is when you turn it off, then back on? Even if you move the slider while the unit is off.



It doesn't "loose" position because when you turn it off the only part that goes off is the display. The sensor is made off little strips that make one plate of a capacitor and read the other plates that's in the scale. If you make a long circuit board with the pattern shown you could get a much longer scale (the problem would be the precision of such board's dimensions)

To prove the power issue, remove the battery, move the scale and put the battery back on. You will see that it didn't change the reading.


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## websterz (Jan 19, 2010)

The 2 I ordered last week came in today. I want to like them, I really do, but they just aren't working out for the X axis on my x2.  I figured by utilizing the center of the table more than the ends I could get acceptable travel for the kind of work I do. The scale really needs to be mounted on the front of the table, otherwise it eats up precious Y axis travel and there's not any to spare. The problems with the front of the table are many, and I have gotten past nearly all of them, except for the locking lever. There's just no way I can see to work around it and leaving it off is not an option. I am going to shelve the units for now and wait for the 10" scale to be made available. I'll be happy then.


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## black85vette (Jan 19, 2010)

Need some help here. I posted earlier in this thread but did not get an answer.  We may not be able to get longer scales for these quickly.  Could those of you who have digital scales (not the calipers) measure the scale rail and see if any of them have the following dimensions:

Scale is .160" x .784" (4mm x 20mm)

It may be worthwhile to buy both and still come out ahead for a remote readout.


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## shred (Jan 19, 2010)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> Need some help here. I posted earlier in this thread but did not get an answer. We may not be able to get longer scales for these quickly. Could those of you who have digital scales (not the calipers) measure the scale rail and see if any of them have the following dimensions:
> 
> Scale is .160" x .784" (4mm x 20mm)
> 
> It may be worthwhile to buy both and still come out ahead for a remote readout.


Mine mics at 4.04mmx20.01mm, though there are a couple different heights on the rail.


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## websterz (Jan 19, 2010)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> Don't think this will work as a display for other units. The remote displays and DRO units use a serial interface coming off the display unit (brain) attached to the scale. On this unit the remote display has all the smarts and the output of the scale appears to be raw sensor reads going to the brain. Not 100% sure of this yet. Need to get up the nerve to disassemble my new unit and put the signals on an O'scope.



I am thinking in the interim, while we wait for word on the longer scales, that we ought to investigate the possibility of feeding data to the display unit from a digital caliper. There's bound to be a way to wire it up...right?


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## shred (Jan 19, 2010)

The display connector appears to be a USB mini-B connector, though I very much suspect it isn't talking USB. It supplies power as well, so if it'll run a caliper, that could be very cool.


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## black85vette (Jan 20, 2010)

shred  said:
			
		

> Mine mics at 4.04mmx20.01mm, though there are a couple different heights on the rail.



I think that may be the same size. I didn't measure all that accurately. What brand and where did it come from?


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## shred (Jan 20, 2010)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> I think that may be the same size. I didn't measure all that accurately. What brand and where did it come from?


It's the Grizz one.. I think I've tossed the box, but it was some sort of "happy fun router lift measure company" in a yellow box; same as the first post in the thread.


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## black85vette (Jan 20, 2010)

Got the second one done and working. Made some brackets out of aluminum channel cut down to make 90 degree angle pieces. Made it pretty simple. Just 3 brackets.  I started by clamping everything in place and verified the fit and checked for interference. Drilled 4 holes for the scale brackets. Made the bracket to keep the sensor in place and just used the hole where the pointer was to hold it. Drilled a hole in the bracket for the lock on the front. That was about it.


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## 1hand (Jan 20, 2010)

Looking good! Will speed up operations for sure. Nice for the, measure twice, cut once saying. ;D


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## Noitoen (Jan 21, 2010)

Looks good but you should have mounted the scale thin side up. Since the main problem with these scales is moist and debri build up there would be less surface exposed.


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## black85vette (Jan 21, 2010)

Noitoen  said:
			
		

> Looks good but you should have mounted the scale thin side up. Since the main problem with these scales is moist and debri build up there would be less surface exposed.



I tried several times to do this and could not get it to fit without hitting something. It is too tall. It either hit the vise or if lower hit the lock.  I think this will need a plastic sheet over it anyway to keep swarf out of the works.


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## black85vette (Jan 22, 2010)

Interesting news. I have been emailing the company that produces the DigiMag and got an email today asking my opinion. He says:

"Please advice which size is popular between 10" & 12" and 30" & 32".  We need add 2 size on the production line of DigiMAG ASAP and offer to all of distributors in April, 2010."

Thought I would throw this out for input from the forum. My thought would be to go 12" and 24". Don't know many desktop mills that need more than 24" of travel and the bigger / expensive mills would justify a higher cost more feature packed DRO system.

At any rate it appears the demand is there and they are going to try to respond to it. Tell me what your thoughts are.


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## Powder keg (Jan 22, 2010)

12-24" I'd buy them\o/


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## GOOFY063 (Jan 22, 2010)

12 / 24 for me
GOOFY063


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## Foozer (Jan 22, 2010)

12 / 24

Robert


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## black85vette (Jan 22, 2010)

websterz  said:
			
		

> I am thinking in the interim, while we wait for word on the longer scales, that we ought to investigate the possibility of feeding data to the display unit from a digital caliper. There's bound to be a way to wire it up...right?



No. I got curious about this and opened up a digital caliper and also one of the remote displays and looked at the data signals on my scope. Entirely different format. The calipers, as is well documented, sends bursts of serial data with the exact position of the scale. The new DRO gets information from its sensor that just gives "change of position" information. It just reports which direction and how much it has moved. The display unit keeps track of where the sensor is and handles the zero and abs functions.


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## winklmj (Jan 22, 2010)

12/24 is good for me too.


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## Troutsqueezer (Jan 22, 2010)

12/24


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## cfellows (Jan 22, 2010)

Assuming I can cut it, 12 or 24 works for me. Don't need both.

Chuck


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## websterz (Jan 22, 2010)

12-24 here too. Thanks for keeping after them on this deal Rick! :bow:


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## black85vette (Jan 22, 2010)

Got another email and thanks to your input he is now planning to add a 12", 24", and 32". He also confirms they can be cut down to any length without a problem.


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## black85vette (Jan 22, 2010)

Decided to make a place for the displays. Just used some scrap angle stock and made a bracket at the top of the upright then bolted some .125" steel 3"x8" to it. Displays have magnets and just stick to it.


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## SAM in LA (Feb 2, 2010)

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> Grizzly sent me an email saying they just received a shipment today and I should get mine early next week.



I finally received my order this afternoon, 2/2/2010.

It seems to me that Grizzly's email and phone support folks tell you whatever it takes to make you happy, even it is not the truth.

I plan on trying a couple of ideas I have to mount these on my lathe tomorrow.


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## websterz (Feb 2, 2010)

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> ...It seems to me that Grizzly's email and phone support folks tell you whatever it takes to make you happy, even it is not the truth...



<SARCASM>Nawwwwwwwww.....surely not!!</SARCASM>


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## Lykle (Feb 3, 2010)

Hi All,

I have installed these scales approx the same way Blackvette did.
They are light, easy to cut and easy to mount. 

There are a few points I need to mention.
There is some hysteresis, when moving the table very slowly it looks like the display is "sticking" and then releases and shows the proper numbers again. 
The magnets of the display are very flimsy and are not mounted strongly, you can easily push them into the housing. 
The cables are a bit of a mess unless you bundle them very carefully.
The buttons on one of my displays do not work properly. I can't switch off the power and if it managed to switch off, all I need to do is to look at it and it will switch back on.

Having said all that, I couldn't live without em.

Lykle


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## black85vette (Feb 3, 2010)

Lykle  said:
			
		

> There is some hysteresis, when moving the table very slowly it looks like the display is "sticking" and then releases and shows the proper numbers again.
> 
> The magnets of the display are very flimsy and are not mounted strongly, you can easily push them into the housing.
> 
> The buttons on one of my displays do not work properly. I can't switch off the power and if it managed to switch off, all I need to do is to look at it and it will switch back on.



Have not noticed any of the "sticking". Mine seem to track well. I will watch more closely and see if I notice anything.

Agree, the magnets are not mounted well. Just glued in from the inside.

The power off is not a big deal. The unit does not really turn off anyway. It just turns the display off. The circuitry continues to function.  I think I would still contact Grizzly and get a replacement. Might as well have everything working right.

Overall I am pleased with mine.  I don't expect them to function like the high dollar units and find that they do just what I wanted.  I have added some swarf protection and need to get some pics posted.

Thanks for the report on cutting. I think you are the first to actually do that.


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## SAM in LA (Feb 3, 2010)

websterz  said:
			
		

> <SARCASM>Nawwwwwwwww.....surely not!!</SARCASM>



It irritates me when a vendor lies to you about ship dates, or anything else.

I placed my order Jan 12. On Jan 14, I was on the phone with them and the gal tells me that the warehouse manager said my order was being processed to be shipped on Jan 15. I even have an email from them saying it will ship on or around Jan 18.

I call on Jan 22 and the gal tells me that they received the DRO's and my order was being shipped.

My order was finally shipped on Jan 25.

If a vendor is out of stock, they should just tell me, don't lie.

Sorry about the rant, I'll get off my soapbox.

:wall: :redface2:


SAM


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## epwrangler (Apr 10, 2011)

Since so much time has passed maybe few will see this but after Reading the earlier posts I ordered two 12" and one 6" from grizzly for my 2x. I would upload pictures but being new have not figured how yet. This has been a relative easy project to do. I used one 12" as Z and one for X. The 6" is the Y.


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## winklmj (Aug 26, 2011)

Well after over a year I finally got around to mounting my X and Y scales (did the Z almost immediately). There mounted similar to how BlackVette did his. The problem now is what to do for the X-axis table lock. The scale is pretty much in the way so I'm looking for ideas around it. The hole is not blocked but there's very little room for my fat fingers now. For now I've replaced the lever with a SHCS and use a long ball-end wrench to adjust it (pain).

Options?

1) Move the lock to the far right gib screw hole. Wondering how much this will affect the stability of the table.
2) Extend the lever to get it out from under the scale. But room is limited between the Y-axis handwheel. So...
3) Move the Y-axis handwheel out further along with 2) above.
4) I was thinking of some kind of cam or screw activated device that could be accessed from the rightside.

Any other options? What have others tried?


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## TroyO (Aug 26, 2011)

I used a SHCS one hole over from the centered spot. I "pointed" the end like a regular gib screw, and I use an allen wrench to lock it down. There's just enough clearance for it to be tightened over the arc of the handwheel.

(This may double post... image was too big the first time.)


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## winklmj (Aug 26, 2011)

Moving over one or two holes would definitely help and I may try that just to gain a little easier access.

Daydreaming at work today I came up with this idea (drawn in psuedo-crap-o-cad). 

The yellow bit is just a free-floating piece of brass rod that would go through the current lever-lock hole and press on the gib. The rest is just some brackets and pivots and levers to apply pressure to the brass rod.

Someone build it, document dimensions, and post up how it works


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## Troutsqueezer (Aug 27, 2011)

You can mount it on the rear of the table. You'll give up about an inch of Y travel unless you remove it when that extra inch is required. I haven't needed the extra travel yet.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9163.0


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## Herbiev (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi all. I went straight to the Grizzly web site and filled out the order for 2 DRO's. (a real bargain as in Australia they are $89.00 ea) When I proceeded to check out I noticed that to ship outside the U.S. a $200.00 min. order applies. Could anyone suggest a way around this little problem ?
Tia
Herbie


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 27, 2011)

1) save up your $ and order $200 + worth of stuff you need . 
2) Buy $ 200 + worth of dros and offer the ones you do not need on e-bay or whatever. 
3) find other folks in your area and combine an order to meet the minimum. 
4) See if one of the guys here preferably one that lives near a grizzly is willing to act as an agent. buy them for you and ship them to you . if you do pay pal that could make things relatively simple. 
5) come visit the USA and visit the grizzly show room and buy them . 
Tin


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## Herbiev (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks tin. Option 5 is the go. Just got to convince the leader of the opposition she needs a holiday ;D


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## Jochen (Aug 27, 2011)

Read this: http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v424-0160/new_products


Jochen


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## blibecap (Aug 29, 2011)

I am new to this site but I added a post to this forum earlier today. Did it get lost or was it deleted? If it was deleted please send me a P.M. so I don't re-post it again. 

Thanks 
Bill


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 30, 2011)

PM sent
Tin


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## mgbrv8 (Aug 30, 2011)

http://www.grizzly.com/products/ite...ce=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=T21577


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