# The Boxford Files



## CrewCab

Some of you might have noticed from another thread that this hunk of "old iron" 








is about to take up residence in my workshop 


 this lathe could well be older than me  ........... certainly takes me back to my schoolboy machining days ;D

I'd been thinking of changing the little 9"x20" to a British version ......... mainly to gain a little more mass and to have the benefit of a gearbox and power feeds. I'd been looking at a lot of Myfords (which seem to command very high prices) but a big thank you to Bogsie :bow: for putting me onto the trail of the Boxfords, they seem a lot more machine and can be had at more sensible prices.


Any way, it's a Boxford AUD Mk2, which is a clone of the 9" Southbend for our American listeners 

Spot the similarities






There is a wealth of information about these on the web but some of it is a little conflicting, the AUD is the model "A" (Screwcutting Gearbox and Power feeds in both directions) with UD ....... UnderDrive, the motor is in the base / cabinet. The total weight is over 600lbs so that's the first hurdle. 

Transporting it home should be OK, it can be loaded into my van with a fork lift, at my end we can have the use of an engine lift to get it out ......... but ........... to get it into the workshop it has to go through 2 x single doorways up 2 steps, then down one step, so methinks dismantling it may be the best way forward.

In principle it seems straightforward, but two points concern me a little .............. 

_"1) If the lathe has a gearbox, leave it in place - and try not to remove a lathe from an under-drive stand; a compound was used to stop coolant getting into the wrong places and effectively sticks the lathe down; once broken the hardened sealer has to be chipped off and the joint remade.
2) Apparently the drive belt is continuous and will need to be cut." _

So ......... does anyone out there actually have experience of taking one of these apart .......... or ...........am I going to be the HMEM Guinea Pig  :

CC


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## wareagle

Congrats! It looks to me like you have yourself a real gem there!

My wheels are turning here... Do you have to make any corners once you get inside, or is it a straight shot to the shop? I have a possible idea for you that might help move the machine. If you can get the lathe off of the stand, you might be able to build a skid for the lathe and use that for the move. Let me know your situation and I'll draw up a quick sketch.


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## Jasonb

I recently got a Warco 280VF which weighs about 190kg, as the engine crane would not fit through my side gate I bolted the lathe to some 2" thick timber and then used several bits of 2" PVC pressure pipe to roll it round the back to the workshop, scaffold pole would probably be a bit better as even the thick wall of the pressure pipe was giving a bit.

Jason


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## John S

Wow,
I never read those warnings :-\

First off on the two I have moved for others if there was any sealant it had long gone and in any case silicone is a far better modern sealant that the gorilla snot they had years ago.

Drive belt, one has link belt so that was easy to split. on the other I took the countershaft of it's plumber bearing and slipped the belt off leaving it dangling from the lathe headstock. 
Once apart everything was moved on a small pallet and pump up truck and then re-erected with the trusty folding crane.

Two good men can do this without the pump up truck and crane.

.


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## CrewCab

Thanks guys, the lathe weighs 276Kg / 608lbs so it's a tad lardy, I suspect the cabinet itself is fairly substantial ...... weight wise :

Stripping it down might not be a bad idea anyway but if I can get it straight into the workshop first that would be nice.

Access is .......... through side door of house (up 2 steps) into utility room, 90o Right Turn, straight on for 10 feet, (and it's only 3 feet wide), down 1 step (only 2") into workshop, straight on for 12 feet then rotate 90o to position on back wall.
I'll fire up Crap-O-Cad and do a sketch ;D

CC


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## CrewCab

Cheers John, sounds like it's quite do-able then, must admit I thought silicone would be the material of choice, I suppose it depends on the year of manufacture ............ I'll try and find out once I get the serial number.

Dave


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## John S

If it's anything like Harrison's used it's more like that old Boss White they glued apprentices to steam pipes with.
Dries like concrete and you need a welders chipping hammer or a Kango to get off.


Up a step, thru a door 10 feet to the right etc.
Sounds a doddle. if you can't get it onto a trolly or such like don't bother with rollers they are a total waste of time, you spend more time poking the band things under then a little.

Get 2 lengths of 1/2 round bar or 3/4" black angle, vee uppermost, drop these down like tram rials and just push the machine along the rails.
The point contact will allow it to move as if on rollers and you can go 8 to 10 feet at a time, if you have to go up or down steps use two planks with shorter pieces of bar on them.

Once you have used this method you will never go back to rollers and bits of tube.

Me and Ower Gert put this into position one Sunday morning before church using only 4 lengths of 1" angle, a 3 foot pry bar and 17 cups of coffee.
The roller wasn't in the chuck at the time 






.


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## pete

JASONB: Not trying to hijack this thread, but I was very interested to hear you own a WARCO 280vf, I'm currantly talking to WARCO about importing one of these lathes into canada so if it wouldn't be too much trouble could you please tell me how well you like this lathe, overall accuracy, dislikes, ect.
Pete


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## CrewCab

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> Me and Ower Gert put this into position one Sunday morning before church using only 4 lengths of 1" angle, a 3 foot pry bar and 17 cups of coffee.



I'd have thought more coffee would have been required 

Blimey John, your swarf collection probably weighs more than my lathe 8)

CC


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## CrewCab

W/E

Map to Workshop ;D

CC


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## malcolmt

Hi there
AS an ex plumber i can tell you of the easiest way to remove Boss White and most other old pipe sealants................................ heat with a blow lamp, Just hotter than warm usually works a treat you can also remake or stop a leak with this method. Just don't try it on pipes that contain flammable liquids. Actually an electric paint stripper would do equally well.

Kind regards

Malcolm


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## wareagle

My thoughts on the move are to leave the lathe and stand intact. The only problem this will present is the it will be top heavy!

Two people could do the job, but to play it safe I'd have a third. I think that I would place the whole unit on a sheet of plywood that is not but a slight bid larger than the footprint of the machine, and attach it with some method (screws, bolts, straps,etc). Once you have it on a flat surface, you will be able to move it around without too much trouble. Use some small diameter plastic pipe (PVC here in the states) cut into lengths about 3" wider than the width of the machine as rollers and once the lathe is on the floor you can easily roll it where you need it to go. Have enough rollers on hand that the machine will be on three or four at all times. Just place one in front of the machine as you are moving it along. If your floor is fragile, use a couple of sheets of paneling or Masonite to protect the floor. Move one sheet in front of the other until you clear the area needing protection. Also know that there will not be enough strength in the plywood to hold the weight of the machine, but this will give you a safety margin in case things go awry.

Bring your lathe to your first doorway, and then pick it up with a hoist (assuming one can fit there; if not, then you might look at breaking the cabinet and lathe apart for the move) and set it up on some blocks that are of the same height as you kitchen floor. Place your rollers under it and move it into the kitchen and prepare for the turn. I think I would have the heavy end go in first.

The turn will be some careful persuasion to the unit to get it to slide on the pipes. Be mindful that you don't want to tip the unit, and this will be the most likely place it will happen. Once you have the machine turned the direction you need, then move it across the kitchen floor until you reach you next step. Again, have the heavy end in the direction of travel.

The 2" drop shouldn't be a huge deal, but be cautions as this is where it can run away from you. Let the lathe roll out over the drop off as far as you can to reach the balance point, and then gently let it rock down to a waiting pipe and continue forward. Stop the unit when the back side reaches the drop off. If you have the light end of the machine, then maybe two people can let it down slowly to keep from having an abrupt drop.

Once you have it on the shop floor, you are well on the way. Move it to you location, and get it close to the area you would like it to set. If yo can get your lift in the area, then do so. Remove the unit from the plywood by picking the unit up, or sliding it off (if you are sliding it off, watch the tip over hazard!) and set it down on the floor where it needs to be.


I have moved my lathe in much the same fashion, and it worked very well. I have a 13x40 and it weights around 1300lbs.  I did use PVC pipe in 3/4" diameter, and I didn't have any issue with it trying to collapse. And I did it with only one other person, my wife. 

As with any big move like this, have a back up plan no matter what you decide to do. Think the whole operation through, look for the snags and try to avoid them before you have your machine sitting in the middle of the kitchen! Have a contingency in place for each step of the operation (i.e. making the turn) and make sure you have the tools/materials on hand to implement the plan should you need to.

Keep safety a priority, and watch for pinch points and never let yourself get between the machine's direction of travel and an immovable surface. Whom ever you have to help, give a thorough briefing on the operation before you start, and this will make things run much smoother. It will also prepare the help for the possible hazards and they will know better of what to watch for during the move.


I hope that all makes sense! If not, then I can elaborate or make a few sketches.

Congrats on the lathe and I am looking forward to seeing some parts come off of it!

W/E


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## dparker

CC: This may sound very simplistic, but how about making a cardboard cutout of the foot print of the lathe, hand wheels and all, and then walk it through the hallway to practice which way you will turn to make the corner. If it is tight, this may save time when you actually get it into the house, you will know which direction to go at the 90* corner instead or trying and finding out the other way might have been easier.
Good Luck---don


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## Stan

First off, let me me say that you have acquired a fine lathe. I bought a new Boxford about 1970 but I think it was an older model than yours. The dealer delivered it to my shop (commercial building) so I didn't have to move it. However, it is a South Bend clone and I have moved two of those several times. A lathe is top heavy and tipping one over can be disastrous to the lathe and to the human body that it falls on.

I moved a 10 x 24 Logan underdrive into my basement shop this summer by myself, except for help with the bed. This trip was up steps 30" to the main floor, down the hall, turn to go down the stairs with a right angle turn half way down, then immediate turn at the bottom through a door. This is also an 800 pound lathe and I would not consider moving it by hand in one piece in confined areas.

I have a detached garage, so I took the lathe apart and did the cleanup in the garage before moving it into the house. Everything on a lathe is easy to take apart and put back together. I take everything off a lathe except for the headstock on the bed. Every piece can then me moved on a cheap two wheel dolly. On the underdrive model, you have to pull the spindle out to change the belt, but to move it, you only have to remove the countershaft. I removed everything from the underdrive pedestal to clean and check the components and make it light enough to move by myself. Two men can move that pedestal with the drive still inside if you have a dolly. An alternative to the cheap (made in China) rubber tired dolly is to rent an appliance moving dolly which has tie down straps and stair climbing tracks.

If you and your friend are capable of man handling 800 pounds, then just pick it up and carry it into the shop.


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## CrewCab

Stan, now I've got the serial number it looks like it was made in early 1971 ,<edited to read> "1972", anyway should have it home shortly than I'll eventually decide on which method to go with to get it into place.

Right, while I'm here ;D

I'm getting to grips with the single point threading and to be fair I believe most of my stuff will probably be metric ......... but ......... there will be some imperial threads I would like to be able to cut definitely 8, 12 and 20 tpi ......... does anyone know what teeth gears I'm gonna need .......... I am reading up about it slowly, but the sinking in is taking a while  

CC


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## Bogstandard

Dave,

There has been a bit of a discussion going on about such a thing, and until all the results are in, you might be on your own a bit. 

Marvelous Marv and his accompanying proggies might be the two main things to hire for your assault on it.

Personally, I would give Tony Griffiths a call to see if he has a decent manual that includes the screwcutting setups for your machine. If he does, it will be worth its weight in gold to you.

Tony Griffiths Phone: 01298-871633 (from overseas: **44-1298-871633) 

John


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## Maryak

Crewcab,

Don't know much about Boxford lathes but the gears required for threading are a function of the lead of the lead screw so first up, what is the lead of your lead screw and is it imperial or metric? my guess would be imperial either 6 or 8 tpi (threads per inch).

Attached, (I hope), are some charts for the gears required from 4-10 tpi leadscrews.

Hope this helps.



View attachment Changegears.pdf


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## John S

Well looking the picture of your lathe you do have a metric gearbox model because the gate is on the left.
Imperial gearboxes had the gate on the right.

This gearbox uses a 3mm pitch lead screw.

So you need the following gears, 38, 40, 44, 52, 56 and a 135/127 compound and follow this chart.






.


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## Maryak

Thanks for sorting me out John and I hope I have not muddied the water sorry crewcab but free advise is sometimes worth exactly what you paid for it.


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## John S

Forgot to add the screw cutting dial on these metric machines are quite special as they have 5 marks, not equally spaced lettered A thru E.
They also have two gears on the bottom, a 20 and a 21. There is a mounting block with two holes on it so you can position it to line up with either gear 1 or 2.

Most metric threads are on the gear 1 - 20 teeth, the 21 tooth one is used for 4.5, 3.5, 1.75, 0.70, 0.45, and 0.35 pitches.
It's easiest to just use the A mark for all pitches, less confusing.

When doing imperial threads you leave the 1/2 nuts closed.

.


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## CrewCab

Thank you all Gentlemen :bow:

I do believe some of it is starting to penetrate my cranium ??? .............. John S ........... I (at last) perceive why a threading dial indicator is not often fitted on a metric lathe after reading *this* (bottom of page, final sentence), 

..... which leads me to another question, why is my "Metric" 9"x20" fitted with a TDI, with 8 Divisions .............. and at last the penny drops even further ......... in relation to John (BS)'s post :-[ ............ and earlier discussions 

Anyway back to the Boxford, John (S) ........... I've eventually realised your last reply is in relation to a "TDI" for a metric Boxford, which also explains why an imperial one is about £30 and a metric one about 4x that price.

OK .......... it's late and I've done reading about metric and imperial threads for tonight as my head is hurting : ....., think I'll go watch some "Tat" on the TV for half an hour whilst my brain slows down. Anyway, ....... last thing for now guys ........ anyone have a link to a picture showing the gearing set up using the compound gear.

Cheers     ................... and Maryak ............ your advice is most welcome anytime 


CC


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## Maryak

Crewcab,

Gear trains an explanation - hope this helps :


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## bentprop

CC,from what I have been told,the problem with removing the lathe from it's stand is that it throws out the alignment settings.And unless you or someone you know can reset it for you,it's supposed to be not a fun thing to have to do.
As for actually moving it,I used the services of 4 burly chaps,and a set of 3 machinery skates,the front one being steerable.Some hire companies have those for rent.
Mind you,I see there are a couple of steps to negotiate,which means the skates are probably not that much use.To get across the steps,you'd probably need a thick sheet of ply,and preferably a sheet of steel or something to avoid gouging the ply.Also some stout rope to stop it sliding away when going down.
Anyway,it's a nice solid looking lathe,if it's in even reasonable condition,i'm sure you wouldn't regret it.Regards.Hans.


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## John S

Crewcab,
I have 3 lathes that are used all the time depending on jobs, size and whether they are metric or imperial. I know this sounds grand but I do have to earn a living at it.

All 3 have thread dials, the CVA which is the British equivalent of the Monarch 10EE has it built in the but the other two are 'normal' mounted ones and can be swung clear.

I use the dial on the CVA because screwcutting imperial threads is the easiest setup you can do and at one time this lathe wasn't easy to reverse the way it was wired up originally [ now changed ]

The other two lathes, big TOS that does imperial and metric although it's an imperial machine, and the all metric TOS have the thread dials swung clear as it's too much of a pain to use them and I reverse back with the 1/2 nuts always engaged.
This way there is never no chance of pickup error and the majority of threads are usually only short ones, enough for a nut and washer.

One interesting fact on the small TOS is that forward and revers are on oil bath clutches inside the headstock and reverse is 1.3333 times faster that forward which speed the job up when reversing.

I don't know if that was the designers idea ? but the main use I have for reverse if winding back out of a thread.

I have great regard for the East European designs, they tend to get neglected but they really put some effort into their designs and builds.

I have a Russian tool room lathe here with virtually no markings, just Made in USSR and HS1020 for a model.
This translates to 5" centre hight, 10" swing by 20" between centres. Same size as CC's Boxford, only main difference is it weights 1.9 metric tonnes  
Three horsepower 3~ motor driving a 24 speed pre-selector gearbox, pressure oiling to the headstock and it won't start first thing in a morning until 20 seconds have elapsed so it can pump the oil round.
The base and the bed is all one casting, built like a brick shithouse you could air drop it on Bosnia and it would still hold 2 tenths. 

I don't use this at the moment as it's earmarked for a CNC conversion but this lathe doesn't have any provision for a thread dial but it can instantly reverse.

.


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## Stan

> CC,from what I have been told,the problem with removing the lathe from it's stand is that it throws out the alignment settings.And unless you or someone you know can reset it for you,it's supposed to be not a fun thing to have to do.



The stand has nothing to do with lathe alignment. This type of lathe can be bought on a cabinet base, chip pan on legs or the bare lathe to bolt down to a wooden bench.

Any time a lathe is moved (even inches) it will require a re-level or realignment (your term). Removing the headstock from the bed may cause a problem because it may have been shimmed and if you lose the shims or their location you have a major project to align the headstock. Everything else on the lathe involves gib adjusting belt tensions etc which are routine.

An added advantage of dismantelling to move gives you an opportunity to examine for wear and damage before you spend the time to level and adjust.

There are many bulletin board threads reporting on the good quality of import precision levels.


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## CrewCab

Stan  said:
			
		

> If you and your friend are capable of man handling 800 pounds, then just pick it up and carry it into the shop.



Funnily enough ..................... ;D ...... it wasn't anywhere near as hard as I thought 

CC


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## Twinsquirrel

Looks like it was made for that spot CC......A big Borat "high-five" to you


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## CrewCab

The Boxford is only a few inches longer than the 9"x20" so a bit of joinery at the weekend should see it all in place ........... that is unless SWMBO has other plans 

Inverter is on it's way, however the one thing I am lacking is a toolpost + mounting bolt & Tee Nut, that's something I do need before I can make a few chips and see if the change has been worthwhile ??? .......... plus it's a "bit full" in here with the "extra" lathe and the three swarf magnets  :

CC


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## CrewCab

John (S) ............... I found an interesting thread on an (almost the same) lathe ............ the tdi (shown below) looks even more complicated with three available gears ............ think I'll just take threading one step at a time, I don't want to push my luck with my first foray into the "Dark Art's" 

Maryak .............. thanks for the piccy's .............. it's a lot clearer now 

OK Guys ............. another "Brain Teaser" ........... once I fit the inverter the speed range available will be 1 - 3000 rpm,  ........... though I doubt 3k will ever be used, as is the norm (apparently) with these gizmo's it's soft start but it can act as an "instant" electronic brake and/or reverse direction almost instantly (so I'm told)  ................ now the 9"x20" has a grub screw to lock the chuck in position, even though I cant stop or reverse it "instantly" ............ there is a distinct possibility of the Boxford chuck coming loose if I'm not on mi' toes here so ...............  do I need to drill the chuck back plates and lathe spindle to accept a locking screw?

CC


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## John S

CC,
Be careful fitting the Invertor as regards stopping, They are programmable down to a fraction of a second and you can even fit braking resistors to stop them dead but as you have realised you have a threaded spindle.
If used carefully there should be no problems.
Another thing to bear in mind is that using a fast programmed stop on an invertor will often case a fault trip and require a reset, something that gets bloody tedious, setting the stop to about 1-1/2 to 2 seconds will usually keep you clear of this problem.

Fitting a grub screw to bear on the register isn't a good idea as it can throw the backplate off. What Myfords do on their new Conny Sewer lathe is to machine a vee groove on the register.
The backplate then has a hole thats drilled and tapped for a grub screw but it only just breaks thru into the inside bore.
A pointed grub screw fits into this and locks at the bottom of the hole, the pointy bit is deep enough to poke thru and fit into the register groove but not make contact.

The idea isn't to hold it but to stop it coming off if it does come loose.

Interesting thread dial, my TOS is similar but has three changeable gears and two double sided dials and you swap over as needed. One side for each gear and the last side just has one mark on it.

.


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## CrewCab

Thanks John, 

Go easy mind ............  ;D ........... on a scale of 1 to 10 my mechanical engineering experience is around 0.35, while yours is about 11 ......... terms like "indexable" and "register" caused me sleepless nights 3 months ago  ......... but I think I'm a little more "up to speed" now ........... I did say "little" .......... but I'm working on it ;D

Thanks for all your help 

CC


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## John S

Just thought, That Russian toolroom lathe is the same size as a Boxford and it came with a 4 turret toolpost that I replaced with one of my own designs as I have three lathes all with the same design post and they can swap holders between all 3 machines making life easier.

If it's any use I can look it out if I still have it and take a pic,
I feel sure it must be in a cupboard or rack in the Jabba, I'll see if I can't find it and if so you are welcome to it and I can throw it in the Donald when I go to Warwick.

.


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## CrewCab

All contributions gratefully received John 

CC


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## CrewCab

Anyway ............. for all you guys n' gal's following this absolutely riveting thread and contemplating moving a heavy lathe  ............ don't worry ............ it's no big deal 

The move went much easier than anticipated, Wareagle, you were right 3/4" plywood worked very well 8) .......... I cut a piece about the same size as the lathe and walked it through "the route" ........... Don :bow: spot on tip mate  , then we "plonked" it on the ply and just hauled it into place .......... believe it or not the 2" step down was the most awkward bit .......... because it had a rubber draught excluder in the threshold : ......... but we won in the end ....... 

We had 3 people on hand but my son and I moved it ............. he did have the heavy end mind ......... but ........ he's 25, 6'-4" and 18 stone ............ he deserves the heavy end ;D


Thanks to all that have contributed, it has all been very helpful gang ......... :bow:

CC


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## steamer

Glad to hear the move went well.

When I got the Logan home with the help of my then 83 Year old dad and his 1 ton truck and equipment trailer, I was always amazed at what he could move with the simplest of tools....He muscled that 1100 pound lathe around just fine with a pinch bar and some rollers...quick as you please.  Wasn't even breathing hard.

Dave


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## ksouers

CC,
Congrats on getting that piece of iron in it's rightful spot!
Well done.


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## John S

CC,
At great personal expense and risk to life and limb I dug this out tonight.






4" square, 2" high with the centre screw, will this fit or is it too big ?

.


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## CrewCab

Looking promising John 8)

From the top of the compound slide to the centreline of the lathe is 25mm (1")

CC


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## wareagle

CC, congrats on your successful move. It is always nice when things go your way! Glad it was easier than anticipated and hope you enjoy your new lathe!!


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## John S

Base is 7/16" thick but it would surface grind down to 3/8" without loss of strength giving you the chance to use 5/8" tooling.


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## Stan

That should work fine but I doubt you will really want to grind the base so you can use 5/8" bits. You will probably be using 3/8" bits with a 3/16" shim under them on a 9" lathe. I had a mate for that tool holder on a 10" South Bend before I changed to a Aloris type tool holder.


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## steamer

CrewCab,

If you can manage it, I would go with an Aloris Clone.  Wedge type AXA

They are very verisitile and quite ridgid to say nothing of easily adjustable

Dave


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## CrewCab

Guys thanks for all the help  :bow:

Given a little time I will upgrade it to a qctp, I've got one on the 9" x 20" with about a dozen holders, but it's a nad's small for the Boxford, and in the short term that has to stay in place so ......... 


...........  I'm looking for something to use ........... John, I don't have any facilities for surface grinding so I'll take it as comes if that's OK .......... thanks.


Stan / Dave ............ is *The sort you mean*

CC


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## Stan

The one on ebay is a piston type rather than a wedge type. The piston type is slightly cheaper and according to the BBS there seems to many satisfied users. I have a genuine Aloris wedge type on my lathe now but the one I put on the South Bend was a piston type and it worked fine. The experts say the tool holder alignment is less precise on the piston type but it was not a problem for me.

I made tool holders out of 6061 aluminum many years ago and they have stood up well. Besides, if I am sneaking up as close to the chuck as possible and touch a jaw there is no damage to the lathe and minimal damage to the tool holder. I do have a steel holder for a cut-off tool and for a boring bar, where there is a lot more stress on the holder.

Edit: The AXA size (used on 9" to 12" lathe) will take a 1/2" tool bit but you can't take advantage of that size with the horsepower you have. The nice part of this type of tool post is you can use any size tool bit without shims by adjusting the holder on the post. A 3/8" tool bit blank is cheaper than 1/2", quicker to grind to shape and plenty big for a 9" lathe.


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## Divided He ad

Glad to see you got that there machine in the shop CC. 

I've not been ignoring you .... just for some reason didn't see this post till now!!.... too many late nights me thinks! :-\


I'll be interested on your views on the performance of the beast. ;D




Ralph.


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## John S

CC,
No problem I'll waft the bottom off on the grinder and throw it in the truck tomorrow so i will have it at Warwick, if I don't do that I'll forget it.
That holder you pointed out is the 100 series holder and is a tad small at 2-1/2" you will probably be better off with the 200 series

I might even have one of these sets somewhere brand new in a box, Stuff tends to breed during winter because of the dark nights.
I can remember buying one for a CNC conversion but finished up using a 6 station rotary changer, give me a couple of days to get the grey matter in place, it gets harder.

True story, 
About two years ago this truck pulls up and the driver says I have a lathe for you.
"Where from?"
"From our depot"

"No I mean where has the lathe come from ? "

"Dunno, just told to deliver it here"

So went out and there is this old Myford ML7 on a big steel stand made out of a electrical junction box, I mean a BIG junction box. So lifted it off, nothing to sign, no paper work and truck leaves.

I think s??t I can't remember buying that, close look and it basically worn out but I don't restore machines so it can't be a job. Cut the stand up for scrap and throw the lathe in the Jabba so it must still be in there ?? ?????

Bought a Denford CNC off ebay the other month, the picture clearly shown it standing on a patch of floor about 10 foot square.
When I get it home some bastard had pinched the 10 foot square of floor 'cause I can't find it, now I'm struggling for somewhere to put it.

.


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## steamer

CC,

Regarding the tool post ...What Stan said! ( thanks Stan)

I have an AXA wedge type clone on my 2 HP Logan 12" x 39.

I have successfully taken some serious near full power cuts with this post and it took it well.

Personally, and I have no data to confirm this, I think the wedge type should be stiffer.

...The qualifier being, as you know, opinions are like back sides....everyone has one ;D

Dave


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## Stan

I may have made a serious error (one track mind) when the original post was about a 9" lathe and I automatically thought of a 9" North American size (British 4.5"). If in fact this is a British 9" (swings 18") then an Aloris AXA (100 series) is much too small. That size lathe is at the 400 series level. See the MSC page of Aloris tool posts and the recommended lathe size. (If you look at the prices, you will see why people buy import clones.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000069994951


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## CrewCab

Stan  said:
			
		

> If in fact this is a British 9" (swings 18")



 :big: 

Don't worry Stan it is 9" North American size, (British 4.5") 8) 

CC


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## Stan

The comments were obviously a little 'tongue in cheek' and I hope no one takes offense.


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## steamer

None taken or implied! ;D

Dave


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## CrewCab

Stan  said:
			
		

> I hope no one takes offense.



Only if you insist :big:






Anyway ................ on with the saga :

Inverter arrived yesterday so this afternoon I've been "wiring things up" .............. after a little :wall: coupled with a few well chosen words things began to fall into place and we now have "rotation" ................. 

***************** The Beast Lives *****************​*

anyway, it runs quietly and smoothly at lower speeds, at higher speeds it's "surging" ..... by hand everything turns over quite easily so I don't know if it's a motor problem (it did get very hot at high speed) or if it's my pathetic efforts at programming the inverter ??? ....... a degree in computer science would help ............. anyone wanting to download the manual so you can have a laugh at what I'm trying to do :big: ............... Click here ............ for now I'm just letting it spin at low speed ................ It's all had a good oiling and to be fair I don't think it's run for many a year 

Next step ............... some sort of toolpost so I can at least try turning, if only using a toothpick ;D

CC
*


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## wareagle

CC, PM sent.


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## CrewCab

wareagle  said:
			
		

> CC, PM sent.



:bow:


and replied 8)

CC


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## John S

CC, Did you swap the motor wiring over from star to delta to run on 240 volts ?


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## CrewCab

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> CC, Did you swap the motor wiring over from star to delta to run on 240 volts ?



OK where's the "WHOOSH" ............ / Over My Head ................ Smiley 


errrrrrrrrr ................. John .................. I've read the instruction book so many times I cam probaly recite it backwards in French ??? ...............but ................... it appears I've missed something :fan:

 CC


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## CrewCab

OK ...... now I've stopped slapping mi'self with a wet Halibut  ............


... John,

Red ........... "A" ............... T1
Yellow......... "B" ................ T2
Blue ........... "C" ................ T3 

Everything spun up, but in the wrong direction so I then reversed Red and Yellow ........... and it spins the right way, but Torque is "conspicuous by it's absence" ???

Does this help or do I need to take the motor out again and look at the wiring to the terminals ................ btw ........... I've turned it off 

CC


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## John S

That's why it's getting hot.

Heres what the inside of a 440 volt motor looks like.







You have all three connector strips linking the star point and each 440 v wire goes on to each one.

Now here is how the links have to be connected to go onto 240 volt 3 phase.






I'll read thru the manual and list the best settings for this application.

Just spotted your last post whist poking the keys.
torque is absent as you are only supplying 1/3 of the current.

Swap the motor links over and then try it but I'll see if we can't get some better settings or at least safer ones.

Off to read the manual.

We used to make ink mixing machines at one stage, like a food mixer on steroids, Just a big 3 phase motor on 240 v with VFD to get variable speed, driving a paddle.
over the years we must have sold close to 200 of these with all different kinds of invertor depending on who was offering the best deal, so I know my way round these.


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## CrewCab

John, 

I've just spent a couple of minutes comparing the wiring configurations, which don't change do they&#160; ??? ........... then I eventually spotted the links&#160; :wall:&#160; .............. just colour me "stupid"&#160; 

Thanks

CC


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## CrewCab

Does this help ???


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## John S

****, you have the older Brookes Gryphon ? motor with the start point buried in the windings.
These are not designed to run on 240 volt single phase.
Two alternatives.
[1] Get local rewind company to bring the start point out as 3 wires or 
[2] get a more modern motor that has links.

Got loads of motors kicking about but none under 1 Hp unless you can get this one to fit.







 ;D Just kidding. 

Anyway I have no way of getting a motor to you short of the Warwick show and I dare say you want to get running before then. Maybe you can scrounge one, usually 3 phase motors can be had quite cheaply.


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## CrewCab

Just my luck :wall:

John, you have mail 

CC


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## CrewCab

OK, looks like I've now got the wiring sorted, or I should have later on today, so .......... on ............. with the show ....... 

I've managed to rig up a little toolpost and the lathe sure turns aluminium nicely ............. and it made short work of a little CRS bar as well 8) 

CC


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## CrewCab

As pointed out by JS&#160; ??? I appear to have a wiring issue&#160; ............. rather than press on and perhaps&#160; do mi'self serious damage, I have engaged a professional electrician to sort this out ............ it took about an hour and I now have a lathe with very serious torque, for what it cost&#160; (&#163;30) I am very happy.&#160; So .............. you lot out there ............ Please, if you need to wire up your Lathe or Mill or whatever, call in the professionals.

&#160; CC


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## ksouers

Way to go, CC.
Congrats on having a runner  ;D


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## CrewCab

Right chaps .......... just to muddy the water a little more ......... ??? ............. look what's popped up on *e*(vil)*bay* 

Just click on the happy chappie below 

>> ;D <<

............. I'm not bidding 

CC


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## ksouers

CC,
Now that you have that fine piece of British Iron up and running, and with the info supplied by John S. regarding gear cutting, you could make one of those things yourself.


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## CrewCab

ksouers  said:
			
		

> you could make one of those things yourself.



 ............... seen any flying pigs recently 
...............  OK I'm game .......... and I'll send anything needing milling over to you so you can give that old American iron a bit of a workout :big:  :big:

Cheers Kevin, nice thought but I feel more practice on my part is required first, John's post on gear cutting is dam good though, certainly one for me to file for future reference.

Back to the Boxford Metric TDI though .............. somewhere I found a picture of a real one ..... the 3 cogged version that is .......... now if I can just find where I've filed it

 ???

CC


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## CrewCab

Found it 






Not something that crops up on eblag every week 


for comparison this is the "alleged" Metric Boxford TDI .............







CC


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## John S

Funny thing is the Boxford book lists the metric one with two gears and they even publish a chart in the end cover to tell you which gears to use. ?

But this other one has 3 gears.

If you fancy making the 2 gear model then your lathe has a 3mm leadscrew which is as near as damn it 8 tpi.
I can blank a couple of 8tpi worms out on the hobber at 20 and 21 teeth next time I/'m doing some worm wheels for Ower Gert if you want.


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## CrewCab

Mmmm .......... sounds worth a try, many thanks John.

CC


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## dampy

Little did I know but Boxford as a company are still up and running, I thought they went out of business years ago, among other machinery they also produce CNC machinery for schools, industry ect.


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## CrewCab

dampy  said:
			
		

> they also produce CNC machinery for schools, industry ect.



Very nice it is too, but I dread to think how much a new CNC machine is 

CC


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## ksouers

Hey CC,

Got a new vise for the X2.

Wha'dya think?







(I really shouldn't be allowed in the shop after a long day at work...)


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## wareagle

ksouers, I think your choice of vise is a bit small for the machine. You will probably destroy the vise when using it with the X2.  :big: ;D


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## CrewCab

ksouers  said:
			
		

> Hey CC,
> 
> Got a new vise for the X2.
> 
> Wha'dya think?



Think you've killed the poor lil' mite ;D

CC


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## CrewCab

Not had a lot of time in the shop at all recently,  ............. but managed an hour or so today so had a play with the lathe ......... having chucked a 1/2" bar, with a live centre at the opposite end ................about 8" overall ............. I took a light skim off the bar and then dug out a micrometer .............. then dug (very) deep into the old memories to remember how to read a micrometer   


anyway ............. difference _turned_ out (no pun intended :wall: ) to be 0.03mm ............ which my calculations tell me is just over a thou on the diameter 8)














 so I'm adjusting nothing ............... I can live with that no prob's ;D






unfortunately it probably means any future errors in turning can't be blamed on the equipment ???

CC


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## ksouers

That's not bad at all, Dave. My C2 tapers about .005 over the same length.

Sounds like a keeper ;D


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## CrewCab

Well as it's a quiet night I'll just update you lot with what I'm doing ............. fitting a new chuck ................ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ............ OK hardly a hard task by general standards but don't forget I'm coming back to this after a 40 year break ............ and even then it was schoolboy stuff so I've not fitted a chuck before, well, not before last week anyway. And I went really slowly at the latter end but still managed to take a nad's too much off the spigot  ......... only a couple of thou but, it certainly wasn't an interference fit ............. so ............... 


What I have realised is I don't have anything capable of accurate measurement (95mm dia), my micrometers are 1" and 2" (25/50mm) and digital callipers certainly don't cut it ............ so ............ tonight I've taken the spigot a couple of mm deeper and not quite as narrow, over the last hour I've taken a further 2 thou off the spigot diameter in very small stages (about 6 cuts) and it seems to be almost there ............ so the backplate is in the freezer and the chuck is in the oven .............. and now for the "pop quiz" 

I know Chicken is 20mins a lb + 20 mins over, but how long do you cook a 4lb steel 3 jaw chuck for  ...........  ;D :big: ;D


I'll stick at it lads, if I miss it this time though, duck; cos' a 5" chuck could be winging it's way thro' the computer screen ???

CC


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## Maryak

CC,

Hope you have success with the spigot coz the duck will take less time per lb than the chicken. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




You'll get there.

Best Regards
Bob


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## wareagle

Well, the heat transfer through metal is at a much different rate than through chicken. The problem with bare metals is that they tend to not absorb heat efficiently. Smooth and shiny means that it will take more to get it heated up than a painted metal will. 

I am assuming you want it to heat soak (meaning heated evenly throughout), so I think I would let it heat for at least an hour, if not longer. One thing is for sure, it won't get any hotter than what the oven is!


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## CrewCab

Maryak  said:
			
		

> the duck will take less time per lb than the chicken.



Cheers Bob .......... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 CC


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## CrewCab

W/E ............ the Oven is on low, the Freezer is on .............. errrrrrrrrr .................. Freeze 


and in 3 mins they will have been in for an hour, 


OK Chuck ............ Round 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




CC


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## CrewCab

Round 3 in about an hour ???

CC


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## dsquire

CrewCab

Leave chicken or duck in the oven for too long and it burns. That won't be a problem with steel. If it does burn, you better check your oven! 

cheers

Don


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## CrewCab

Don, I just hope the oven has a better life expectancy than the toaster ;D

CC


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## dsquire

CrewCab

Ya got that one right!

Cheers

Don


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## CrewCab

Right, Chuck fits and to be sure it's tight ;D 

another very tedious session taking "dust" off with each skim, but, for the sake of the couple of hours it's taken compared to howmany hours use it will get I think that's a fair trade off.

OK nothing very exciting guys but for us beginners it's a big step .................using a 6mm ground bar, run out seems to be around about 1 thou (0.001") so I think that's pretty fair for a first OK, third attempt :

CC


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## CrewCab

I was wrong, checked the run out again this morning and to be fair you could see it by eye .............. it was miles off .......... about 3/4mm (30thou +) .................. no idea how I managed to measure almost no run out last night, either the drill rod I used was "happily" bent the correct amount or mi' old eyes just had had enough ???

Anyway, obviously that amount of run out is not "good" ???

Sorry if this is simple stuff gang, but when I was looking to start up again a few months back "simple stuff" was hard to find, so if this helps at least one new convert then I think it's worth while.

There was something fundamental wrong somewhere, after much soul searching, chastising the chuck, (with words your unlikely to hear in Church) and of course (for the Monty Python Fans) beating it with a twig ;D  eventually I realised the backplate was not screwing completely onto the spindle :wall: ............. that would be not "registering" I believe ....... :fan:

OK Toys were out of the window by this stage, for Gawd's sake if I can't get a chuck to fit how an I ever going to rival some of the wonderful creations on here ............ so short version ...........

Bored out the backplate register by about (almost nothing), backplate then screwed on correctly, refaced it ........ to the tune of "Swoosh".Swoosh","Swoosh" ........... godammit how far out was that ??? ............... back to yesterday's stage of taking a nad's at a time off the spigot till I felt it was a good fit, eventually got the dam thing with a maximum runout at about .11mm (3thou) .......... and then thought ............. I can improve on this  ............. famous last words ............. next skim gave nearly 7thou run out  ............ at this stage I'm thinking of taking up flower arranging 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Back to the drawing board, light skim of everything, and I mean light, wire wool might have taken more off ........... clean all the mating surfaces and blow off with an air line, bolt on chuck, still tight and needs to be pulled up with the mounting bolts ............ (don't even ask about separating it by the way) still 6thou run out ........... unbolt, rotate 60degrees, re-tighten etc ........... 6 thou out .............. and once more ............... 





It's a metric gauge and I make that "pretty good" ;D a nad's over 0.1mm or around about 1/2thou; anyway, I'm just pleased I've sorted it at bloomin last ;D

At last ........... I'm a happy bunny again .............. on with the show ............. (really I'm off for a lie down), I've got a 5" 4jaw to deal with yet :

CC


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## wareagle

CC, stay at it buddy! You'll get 'er done! It may take a little "beating it into submission" but you'll have a darned fine lathe when you are finished!


----------



## CrewCab

The lathe really is just fine W/E ............... I just worry about the operator :

 CC


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## Divided He ad

Flowery tw*ts!! That's the branch beating bit Chief  

 :big: You remember all that scary fun I had with my chuck? I know how you feel!

Bet your relieved now that it's running true though? 

And a 4 jaw to do as well.... Good job your hair's already turning grey 




Good luck..... So how soon do we see your second engine?? (not trying to hurry you.... Much  )



Ralph.


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## jonnie

Hi

This thread is old but no harm in replying as others may still read it.

I read this thread before purchasing my boxford, I had exactly the same concerns regards moving the machine into my workshop.

In the end I did not risk unbolting the headstock, all the talk of the mastic and how hard it could be to remove put me off.

I did remove the tailstock.

Then...note the two holes in the photo (first post in this thread) the holes are just underneath the tray in the cabinet and are visible in the photo. They go right through the cabinet.

All you need is steel bar that will fit through and is a little longer than the cabinet is wide, then you have four carrying handles.

Then find four reasonably strong folk and away you go.

Jon


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## jonnie

Does anyone have a good source of information regards dismantling and re-assembling the cross-slide and carriage?

This may sound very naive but I still havent figured how to dismantle the cross slide, mine has a little bit of roughness in the action which I can 'feel' is down to the thread or the nut in which it turns - I would just like to take it apart and check it out.

I would like to dismantle, inspect and possibly renew parts if that is possible.

I was hoping for a book along the lines of restoring a boxford ( TUD in my case ).

Thanks
Jon


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## Omnimill

jonnie said:


> Hi
> 
> This thread is old but no harm in replying as others may still read it.
> 
> I read this thread before purchasing my boxford, I had exactly the same concerns regards moving the machine into my workshop.
> 
> In the end I did not risk unbolting the headstock, all the talk of the mastic and how hard it could be to remove put me off.
> 
> I did remove the tailstock.
> 
> Then...note the two holes in the photo (first post in this thread) the holes are just underneath the tray in the cabinet and are visible in the photo. They go right through the cabinet.
> 
> All you need is steel bar that will fit through and is a little longer than the cabinet is wide, then you have four carrying handles.
> 
> Then find four reasonably strong folk and away you go.
> 
> Jon



Yep, we did that at work many years ago with two Boxfords!


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## Boxfordian

Rather partial to a boxford myself


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