# Harbor freight - Grizzly - Enco Tools



## Cliff (May 5, 2009)

I was wondering which tool company sells the better quality tools for the price. I thought I would get you guy's opinion on the subject. I am getting ready to buy a few things and am having trouble deciding which is the best buy for the money. Cliff


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## kennyd (May 5, 2009)

Of the three choices listed here is the way I would list them from OK to worst for machine tools like Mills, Lathes, ect.:

1. Grizzly
2. Enco
3. HF

Now for hand tools/machine tooling I would swap #1 and 2, but HF is ALWAYS on the bottom of the list for me ;D

This is just my opinion-It may be worth what you paid for it


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## shred (May 5, 2009)

I suspect they sell at roughly the same price/quality ratio (I have tools from all 3), so pick where you want to be... it really depends on the tool and intended use.


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## rake60 (May 5, 2009)

The hobby scale machine tools sold by these three companies are all Seig.
They come from the same plant but are painted different colors.

If you buy from Enco you'll pay the highest price and get a blue machine.
Enco always throws in something to make it look better.
(i.e. they add a reverse tumbler to the Seig 9 X 20 lathe.)

Grizzly is the middle in price.
You will get a green or cream colored paint on the machine.
If you expect customer service, Grizzly is the way to go!

HF is the less expensive option. 
Same machines, but the paint color may vary from day to day.
You'd get better customer support at McDonalds.

There is a 4th option.
Cummins Tool is now know as *Tools NOW*
They are the least expensive seller of the Seig machines.
If you require customer service your_ *"SOL"*_

Rick


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## Stan (May 5, 2009)

Quote "better quality tools for the price...............best buy for the money." unquote

Those two quotes hit the target. If the cheapest tools will do what you want then it is the best buy. If you want better quality tools then it is a different story. If one tool costs 50% more can you expect it to be 50% better quality? If both tools were made in the same factory, were they made to the same spec? 

Personally, I think when you buy import tools from a discount mail order source, you pay your money and take a
 chance. All three firms mentioned sell some brand name quality tools. Then you have to decide if customer service is worth more money.

If you planning to make major purchases then you need to get advice on specific models from people using that model. There is a big variance price and quality on tools from the Far East, just as there is in tools made in the USA.


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## densue (May 5, 2009)

I have a saig/HF mini lathe and a Saig/HF micro mill. I've heard that all the equipment is from the same distributor. you should ask around to those you know for endorsements. I have had no problem with the lathe and mill I have. Once you get to know the units you have purchased then you can work well with them, you just need to get in tune with it. In my profession, I have worked with junk and over used Bridgeports to super sophisticated Fadal CNC's with feed rates over 200ipm, It comes down to "you have to live with what you have". I am satisfied with the HF machines. I suggest if you want support?, then go to Littlemachineshop.com, they have all the parts you could ever want and need.

Dennis


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## lathe nut (May 5, 2009)

My Dealing with HF and the two lathes, (2) 7X10's one A 14X40 and the gear head mill 7032, very pleased and have had no problems with them, just my dealing, I might have been lucky, Lathe Nut


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## shred (May 6, 2009)

"it's all made in the same plant", but... Apple laptops and HP laptops (and Dells and Lenovos and...) are made in the same plant too (not the lathe plant, however)

Whatever the buyer specifies (and QC's) is what they get. I think some tool things are off-the-rack same, and some are not. I played with a Grizzly 12x36 lathe and HF 12x36 and while both were usable and appeared very similar, there was a noticeable difference between the two, yet other things seem identical except for the price or color.


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## Tin Falcon (May 6, 2009)

Do not forget to add Micromark to the mix www.micromark.com/
I have Grizzly and Micromark. equipment.
Keep in mind most od the litle seig machines are shipped as a pre assembed kit that need some fit finnish and adjustment help. Also most folks end up adding one or several upgrades to make the machine more user friendly. 
Littlemachine shop is a great aftermarket OEM source for supporting these tool. LMS buys directly from Seig and have visited the factory.
Tin


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## Cliff (May 6, 2009)

I want to thank everybody on your opinion on buying tool's I have been leaning towards Grizzly and Enco. I had never heard of Micromark but I ordered a catalog and can't wait to drool over it again thanks Cliff.


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## Marinesteam (May 7, 2009)

HF and Grizzly may be made in the same factory but they are worlds apart in fit and finish.

The 9x20 lathe is a good example. I had a chance to see a 9x20 just after un-crateing at HF and a Grizzly 9x20 which a friend had just purchased. If you carefully compare the two units side-byside (or nearly) you can see what I mean. It has been said on several groups that Grizzly has there own QC in the chinese factories and that all of their reject go to other vendors. I can believe that. THe HF unit was made from the same castings but was finished for [email protected] as compared to the Griz.

Regardless of what others may say (I don't think they have compared units side-by-side) the Grizzly machines are finished to much higher standards than the HF units. The HF machines look like they just pulled 'em out of the sand and painted before crating.

All chinese made machines need to have some level of cleanup before using, the cheaper ones like the 9x20s and the 7x bandsaw more so. But I want to make parts on my machines not spend time fixing machine problems so it was well worth the extra $$ to get a machine that functions out of the box. I traded up on my 9x20 and the 12x36 only required a wipe down before using.

I currently own several Grizz machines and am very happy with them.

12x36 gunsmith lathe
mini-knee mill
7x bandsaw

marinesteam


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## 10K Pete (May 7, 2009)

I've been looking at the Sieg mills from the various suppliers and have come to learn that
there is a difference in the lead screw pitches. The Grizzly has 10 tpi screws but the HF
unit has 16 tpi screws.

So the Grizzly dials are .100" per turn but the HF dials are .0623" per turn.

I suppose a woodworker would want 1/16" dials but I sure as heck don't!

The MicroMark machine is decimal, not fractional, plus MicroMark sells retro-fit kits for
those that want to covert their fractional mills to decimal mills.

Pete


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## rake60 (May 8, 2009)

With the milling machines you also need to consider the spindle taper.
Using the X2 as an example, the Harbor Freight offering has an R8 taper
and the Grizzly has an MT#3 Morse Taper.
There are more tooling choices available for the R8 taper.

Rick


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## cobra428 (May 8, 2009)

Cliff,
If you live somewhere near the east coast and are interested, I have a HF 8x12 lathe with a Phase II hobby QCTP with extra holders, 4" 3 and 4 jaw ind, face plate, delta work light added on, back splash, all gearing and extra cog belt plus ?? MT3 spindle and MT2 TS. I used it for a year and its in great shape and a good machine. All the play bugs are out. I needed to up grade to a bigger lathe 10x22 Griz. I'd be willing to meet half way to save on shipping. $550 takes it. Email me directly if interested.
Thanks
Tony


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## Cliff (May 9, 2009)

Hey Tony

Thanks for your offer if I lived close to the east coast I would very much think about taking you up on your offer but I live in southeastern Colo. ( Pueblo ) I have a HF lathe that I think is about the size of the one you have and also I have a Smithy three in one machine but due to health issues I could use either one but my health is getting better and I am going to start doing something I am planing on making a QCTH for my HF lathe along with some other stuff ( I know you could probably buy the thing's I want to make cheaper but then you wouldn't have the fun of making it ) again thanks for the offer .Cliff.


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