# Tee nuts/studs from scratch



## JCSteam (Aug 23, 2017)

Hi, can anyone give me some ideas on making Tee nuts for the lathe and faceplate. 

I'm thinking to start with a square piece of steel in the chuck the same dimension as the width of the tee at the widest point. Then machine of the two mating faces that will run in the grooves, by holding the steel length ways in the 4 jaw. 

Then turn the steel rectangle parralel to the bed to reduce to a round shaft that will fit into the narrower section in the tee grooves. Then just turn the rest to a suitable size for the thread I'll use. 

I'm just working on the theory of making tooling at the moment so no measurements as this will be measured from the ML4 lathe. I was going to use a metric thread M8 or M10 which ever is closer to the final diameter of the narrower grooves in the cross slide. But I'm wondering if there's a better thread like BSW that would enable me to nip it up quicker with less turning of the spanner?


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## bazmak (Aug 23, 2017)

One way is to start with a piece of sq steel,hold in the 4 jaw,drill and tap
and turn a round spigot to fit the slot,both dims do not need to be sq
The lower section of the T slot can be sq or rect. the top can be round
If you have a mill then you can mill a length of T and cut to length

One other way is to turn a top hat section with a large dia then file or mill
2 flats
Keep the tapped hole,screw size at least 2mm smaller that the width of the top slot
so you dont brea thru.IE for a 12mm slot i use 10 or 8 or 6 screws or special as reqd
LET me know the size of the T slot


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## Wizard69 (Aug 23, 2017)

Are we talking T nuts or T bolts here?   I ask because it sounds like you are making T bolts.



JCSteam said:


> Hi, can anyone give me some ideas on making Tee nuts for the lathe and faceplate.


For T-nuts I prefer to start with some bare stock at least as wide as the bottom part of the T slot.   Put it in a vise mill the shoulders and drill the holes to be taped.    You might want to avoid power tapping though as you don't want good threads going all the way through the T-Nuts.   In the vise you should be able to handle a piece long enough to give you 4 -5 nuts, probably a lot more for small T-nuts.      After all the holes are drilled and tapped cut off the individual nuts.


> I'm thinking to start with a square piece of steel in the chuck the same dimension as the width of the tee at the widest point. Then machine of the two mating faces that will run in the grooves, by holding the steel length ways in the 4 jaw.
> 
> Then turn the steel rectangle parralel to the bed to reduce to a round shaft that will fit into the narrower section in the tee grooves. Then just turn the rest to a suitable size for the thread I'll use.


I'm having problems following because it sounds like you are talking about T-Bolts here.


> I'm just working on the theory of making tooling at the moment so no measurements as this will be measured from the ML4 lathe. I was going to use a metric thread M8 or M10 which ever is closer to the final diameter of the narrower grooves in the cross slide. But I'm wondering if there's a better thread like BSW that would enable me to nip it up quicker with less turning of the spanner?


The thread pitch you use is up to you.   I would tend to avoid extremely high pitched threads, leaning towards fine pitches.   Yes fine pitch thread increase the need to spin the nuts but that can be addressed by having plenty of stud lengths.

I might suggest that you think about thread sizes a bit as you want to avoid a proliferation of shaft diameters for fixturing bolts and hardware.   The interesting thing here is that I'm currently working on clamps and parts for use on a Mini Pallet.   In this case I went with 1/4-28 as it is the same thread size as on a tool post I have and is just a bit beefier than the 10-32 some use.    For full size needs I'd probably stick with 1/2" or 12 mm, if of course they fit the machine properly.

In any event the idea here is to avoid duplication of diameters and trying to make your investment widely applicable to the machinery you have.   It also pays to make sure commercial products available locally are compatible unless you plan on making everything yourself.   The big issue here being good quality heavy nuts.


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## JCSteam (Aug 23, 2017)

Wizard69 thank you for your response, in depth though I am afraid I am intending in making most if the tooling myself. In my view clamps, especially bolts don't need to be perfect. I am looking to bolts as opposed to nuts, as these wi&#314;l be easy to move between clamping surface. The faceplate of the ml4 had the same width as the tee nut holes in the cross slide. 

I know I'm switching between the two ideas here, (nuts a tee bolts) but I want to see which is the better option. £50 For a full clamping set or make them custom to me For less than a couple of quid and adjust to suit.


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## JCSteam (Aug 23, 2017)

bazmak said:


> One way is to start with a piece of sq steel,hold in the 4 jaw,drill and tap
> and turn a round spigot to fit the slot,both dims do not need to be sq
> The lower section of the T slot can be sq or rect. the top can be round
> If you have a mill then you can mill a length of T and cut to length
> ...



I think you explained my method there but without machining the flats I have an old Myford ML4 lathe, and a 6x4' shed! I have no budget for tooling a DTI at £15 is a big investment lol. (The lathe motor and tooling cost me £300 remember ). Machining tee nuts, or bolts is my option. The lathe is the only tool I'll ever need I heard somewhere. So I need to put that to practice lol


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## ShopShoe (Aug 24, 2017)

Everyone has provided information already, but MrPete also has a video on this subject:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAnXgxZ16m8[/ame]

--ShopShoe


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## goldstar31 (Aug 24, 2017)

All that I have is a black rectangle in Windows7 Professional but found 'something' with  on Apple about a Bridgeport which JC Steam and I do not possess. 

Whether Mr Pete even knows what a Myford - of any sort is a matter of some conjecture.  So let us be clear about information  from someone who has presently two Myfords and has overhauled a pre-War Myford ML. What the number is is merely academic because the tee slots are non standard. Moreover, there has been a continued risk that in the event of a 'big bang' the tee slots can fracture and a tee bolt literally torn out. For those who might have eventually aspired to read Cleeves Screwcutting in the Lathe might notice that his ML7 has a very non standard saddle. Cleeve, despite his professionalism, experienced a Big Dig in - and wrote about it in Model Engineer.
Even without such an experience, incorrect procedures risk distorting the saddle top or boring table. My first Super 7B  incidentally from Darlington was warped by the previous owner! To describe just how difficult it was to hand scrape it back beggars belief!

I must leave my somewhat acerbic comments for JC Steam to meditate on.

Yesterday, I was discussing Myford Tee Bolts with the owner of two new-ish Super7B's and an almost virginal 'Bridgy' and his considered opinion was -- to buy correct nuts. As a  sort of post script, my new set are awaiting the time when they will fix a vertical slide- ex Myford onto the Sieg4. Once I make the tee nuts for the Sieg-- I hasten to add.

Norm


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## JCSteam (Aug 24, 2017)

Hi Norm, are you saying that the best method is to use Nuts and studs over bolts so as to create a weak point for in the event of a dig in. 

Norm makes a good point, although the video is informative, the lack of such a machine means that I am left to make these on the lathe only. 

So the method in the original post is the only way I can think to make the bolts.


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## DJP (Aug 24, 2017)

Buy the clamping set that fits. It's a one time investment that when spread over centuries is miniscule. The clamping set will come with enough different sizes that you can quickly create a jig to suit the work piece. Unless you are doing receptive work you will always be creating custom hold down clamps that seldom get used again.


Just some thoughts for your consideration.


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## goldstar31 (Aug 24, 2017)

Possibly the 'best' answer is to buy- and in a variety of lengths to suit whatever purpose which comes along. Failing this, I would go for getting a copy of George Thomas's Model Engineers Workshop Manual and follow his pedantic diatribe on Setting Up aids. Again, I would arm myself with the Martin Cleeve article from Model Engineer. There are other ways but between Cleeve and Thomas, you get a fair apprenticeship which despite the cost will amply repay your outlay. As for so called Myford tee bolts, I would use 7/8ths round  mild steel and I would still work in BSF. The reason is that you are using a very Imperial lathe whilst I, for my sins, is hybridising between the two.
Again, I might be slicing 16mm square, tapping 7 mm and then tapping 8mm ISO and slicing and fitting stainless steel 8mm studding but I am a Certified Welder ( or was) and double Distinctions in City And Guilds and can silver solder or Mig. You have yet to gain such experiences- but will. 

Sadly, I'm in one of those Catch22 positions because of Old Age and Infirmary and am paying more than 3 times the cost of your lathe for annual car insurance and that is with a limit of only 2000 miles per annum. In other words, I cannot get to Darlington to see you.
I'm not moaning but merely explaining.

So follow existing and soundly tested Model engineering techniques. 

My best wishes

Norm


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## JCSteam (Aug 24, 2017)

Thanks Norm, I would love you to come visit, but fully understand I might be free next weekend, armed with two new back tyres for the motor, (bloody cost me £110) I could come to you instead if you like.  

I'll go with what you say about keeping it all imperial. 

These nuts/bolts, clamps are basically just to gain some experience using the lathe. Also to learn some techniques for clamping different lumps to the cross slide. As I said if I'm out on my measuring this won't make too much difference For what they are intended for. There was a flycutter that came with the lathe, but one of the cutting tips need remaking. As it's snapped in half. I want to try this out by mounting something in the clamps and taking facing cuts to see how accurate the tool is. Before i invest in an MT2 flycutter that is. No point buying what you already got


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## goldstar31 (Aug 24, 2017)

At present, I have a new shed which is going to receive external wood cladding tomorrow and hopefully will be lined. Then I have to install a ring main- before I put all my junk/tools etc back on shelves which I have yet to make-- did I hear 'LOL'?

Then- I have to do a far more time consuming task in trying to clear up the continuing problems of my late wife's and mine 'estate'
At the present, it is already almost exactly two years since my wife died and it is no way settled yet. 

Probably the easiest and quickest way is to take a break and perhaps shove a tool and cutter grinder into the back of my little car and some hss lathe tools. Then, later, I would welcome your visit. I fancy re-installing the ML10 which is fairly close to your ML4 in the new workshop and you could 'have a go' 

I'm really looking forward to being in a position to having spare time to devote to a hobby and have someone to share the experience.

Meantime, we both have phones?

Best wishes

Norm


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## bmac2 (Aug 24, 2017)

JCSteam said:


> I think you explained my method there but without machining the flats I have an old Myford ML4 lathe, and a 6x4' shed! I have no budget for tooling a DTI at £15 is a big investment lol. (The lathe motor and tooling cost me £300 remember ). Machining tee nuts, or bolts is my option. The lathe is the only tool I'll ever need I heard somewhere. So I need to put that to practice lol



Hi JC
The Top Hat style Bazmak mentioned using round stock is the fastest and easiest way to make T nuts without a mill. Ive made dozens of these for on my ML7. Just tap the hole, machine down the Top Hat to fit the depth and width to your slot, part it off, file the flats and repeat.


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## goldstar31 (Aug 25, 2017)

Within its limited context, I agree but my very salutary 'aide memoire' is the bottom of a mark 1 Myford Super 7top slide where the round spigot is only 2/3rds remaining. Whichever way one looks at it, it is rather an expensive situation and the probable conclusion of a model engineering hobby! I have no idea who the unfortunate was, I merely received it as part of a bit to salvage the top instead of making a Radford fixed top slide. Again, I have a Super 7 B where many of the gears were stripped and lacking new spares on the shelf had to be replaced 'in house' JC Steam will have the opportunity to see things for himself rather than a 'correspondence course'

Oddly, in my present changeover towards a bigger shed, I came across a 'Tee bar'- no, not the beloved meat hooks of some ski resorts where they catch the pockets of ski pants and things become somewhat frost bitten. This tee bar actually had TWO 1/4" BSF tappings and went with a rear parting tool holder which had 'belt and braces of a whole 3/8th Myford type holding down bolt.

In the likely event of a dig in, the parting blade( one of two) would break- which is a damned sight cheaper than a new steel boring table( or worse)

So how was this miserable but useful thing made? It was probably held in either a three chunks of steel bolted into a pillar which requires no milling or lump of steel firmly bolted to the boring table with the bolts located inside rather than Jerry rigged.
There is nothing new in all this, every model engineer had a thing like steel or iron block to pepper with holes-- or do they? Surprisingly they are just as good as a mill or a vertical slide - with its almost obligatory Myford vice.

'Nuff said? My coffee is getting cold.

Regards

Norm


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## Wizard69 (Aug 25, 2017)

Obviously if you have the time making the components yourself is a good approach.   It is also a good bit of practice.

I mentioned buying T-Bolts because many of them on the market are forged and of pretty high quality.   Even so they are inexpensive compared to going the full monty and heat treating your own t-bolts.   

The reality is you don't need heat treated high strength bolts in the home shop anyways.   As for making your own there are probably dozens of ways to do this and likely depends upon the tools you have available.   I'd probably do all the turning first and then do the shoulders in a collet block.



JCSteam said:


> Wizard69 thank you for your response, in depth though I am afraid I am intending in making most if the tooling myself. In my view clamps, especially bolts don't need to be perfect. I am looking to bolts as opposed to nuts, as these wi&#314;l be easy to move between clamping surface. The faceplate of the ml4 had the same width as the tee nut holes in the cross slide.
> 
> I know I'm switching between the two ideas here, (nuts a tee bolts) but I want to see which is the better option. £50 For a full clamping set or make them custom to me For less than a couple of quid and adjust to suit.


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## ShopShoe (Aug 25, 2017)

Sorry, I missed or forgot the lathe-only part of the request. However, there is a point in the video where tapping the T-nut to prevent running the bolt or stud in too deep is discussed.

Norm, I always appreciate your input, especially when you focus on making do with what you've got. Sometimes we forget that there are many ways to do everything.

I do want to learn what JCsteam does, as I like to see people move forward at all skill levels. (And Norm, I am patiently waiting for you to get your shed and your MySieg up and running.)

Regards to all,

--ShopShoe


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## abby (Aug 25, 2017)

Couldn't be bothered to read most of this but if you are making T-bolts and have a good heat source (oxy acetylene is perfect) I cut my bar to length and then holding the piece in my vice I heat the last half inch or so until it is as hot as I can get it them whack it with a hammer ............this is called up-setting , especially if you hit your hand !
A little practice and it is easy to forge enough of the bar to turn the T and file away the surplus.
Dan.


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## goldstar31 (Aug 25, 2017)

Unfortunately, neither JCS nor I have Oxy. There are problems in not only cost but in house insurance. Long time since I heard 'up-setting' and 'etteling' and using a Bob and Aunty.  I presume that I was the little boy who being a virgin was delegated to urinate in the quenching water.  Can one still buy fustians and brass two foot folding rules beloved of country blacksmiths and farriers?

Do they still generate their own acetylene from calcium carbide.  We used to collect unused bits,  stick them in lemonade bottles  , urinate  and play cork guns. One , the village idiot, tried it on a screw top bottle.

Just thought or so

Norm


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## Niels Abildgaard (Aug 25, 2017)

bmac2 said:


> Hi JC
> The Top Hat style Bazmak mentioned using round stock is the fastest and easiest way to make T nuts without a mill. Ive made dozens of these for on my ML7. Just tap the hole, machine down the Top Hat to fit the depth and width to your slot, part it off, file the flats and repeat.



My last versions are easier yet.
But I have a very good parting off system.


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## bazmak (Aug 25, 2017)

Thats the way i made them before i got the mill Niels
Now i mill as a length of T section drill and tap and cut
to length etc. If you worry about the contact area and breaking the
T slot then i make them longer.If it will fit then you can have one long one with a no of tapped holes.Personally i dont think there is much risk
with low powered chinese bench lathes and the home workshop
Heavy industry yes HT everything etc etc


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## Hopper (Aug 25, 2017)

Or there is the quick and dirty way - always the preferred method in my shop! - and use coach bolts with the heads ground down on the bench grinder to suit. Not sure about Myford sizes but 5/16" coach bolts, the ones with round domed heads and a square section between head and shank, are a pretty good fit on my Drummond. You may have to go a size smaller on the Myford. The square is a good fit in the narrow part of the T slot, some may need the slightest touch on the bench grinder to move back and forth freely. 

The coach bolt can be set in the three jaw and the top of the domed head machined down flat until it is just less than the depth of the wide section of the T slot. Finally the round domed head has two flats ground on it on the bench grinder until that part of the head is a free sliding fit in the wide section of the T slot. 

I've been using this " temporary" measure for years while I wait to get around to making proper T nuts. Never any problems. 

I have also found that standard Metric sized T nuts available cheap cheap on the interwebs fit Drummond and Myford sized T slots with a very minimal lick on the bench grinder on the bottom face and the two sides that fit inside the wide part of the T.

Myford today does not seem to sell Imperial sized T bolts and nuts, except a couple of the longer sizes that would be leftover old stock. They sell instead Metric replacements. M6 threads instead of 1/4". Sign of the times I guess.


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## JCSteam (Aug 25, 2017)

Thanks Hopper that's exactly my kind of tempory idea too using the coach bolts but thought I'd be fround upon for even suggesting an idea like that. Coach bolts are cheap enough and would suffice for now. Most even come with a handy square nut too lol


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## JCSteam (Aug 25, 2017)

ShopShoe said:


> Sorry, I missed or forgot the lathe-only part of the request. However, there is a point in the video where tapping the T-nut to prevent running the bolt or stud in too deep is discussed.
> 
> I do want to learn what JCsteam does, as I like to see people move forward at all skill levels. (And Norm, I am patiently waiting for you to get your shed and your MySieg up and running.)
> 
> ...



No worries, if you missed my introduction, I found myself out of work, and had this crazy idea that with a lathe I'd be able to make stuff to sell. However spent that long looking for a job never got sorted with the lathe. I've only recently moved and repaired the old shed. And now I'm trying to assess what I'd need to be able to make something useful, when I figure out what useful is. I have a faceplate with clamps but no bolts to secure anything to it. I also want to get a angle plate so I can mill in the machine again I'd need some form of tee nut or bots to secure the angle plate. Hence the start of the thread. I saw the bit about the tapered hole to avoid the bolts going through to you cross slide.


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## fcheslop (Aug 27, 2017)

Tee nuts and bolts could be simply turned from stock and the flats done with that rather old and often forgotten tool a FILE 
As most of my generation we were taught to file to within a thou or so and if you failed it was a thick ear along with some words I still use to this day when things go wrong
If you got it wrong again it was punishment duties in my case hand sawing clock frames for teh gaffers contraband jobs
If you buy any books the one Norm mentions should be top of the list it has been a very good source of info over the years
cheers


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## Wizard69 (Aug 27, 2017)

ShopShoe said:


> Everyone has provided information already, but MrPete also has a video on this subject:
> 
> --ShopShoe



This is the method I've used many times for T-Nuts at work.

By the way MrPete does a good job with his videos, I try to watch one or more a week.   I like that he stresses that T-Nuts don't have to be precision pieces but then goes to hit tolerance right on the money.   The point is many a T-Nut has been made with lathe and file or simply adjusted to fit with a file.  Many a home shop is pretty thin on machinery so not every tool component needs to be held to tenths of an inch to be usable.


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## goldstar31 (Aug 28, 2017)

Of course this is all part of a hobby and some diversions from the real world are to be expected.

On my workdesk I have 4 1" long proper Myford tee nuts and the cost was either a lot  or not a lot but I paid less than £6 for them inclusive of postage, packing and V-ery A-wful T-ax for mine from RDG Tools who is Myford's successor

a retired accountant--- ooops- sorry!

Norm


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## JCSteam (Aug 28, 2017)

goldstar31 said:


> Of course this is all part of a hobby and some diversions from the real world are to be expected.
> 
> On my workdesk I have 4 1" long proper Myford tee nuts and the cost was either a lot  or not a lot but I paid less than £6 for them inclusive of postage, packing and V-ery A-wful T-ax for mine from RDG Tools who is Myford's successor
> 
> ...



Norman I always thought of it as V-ague A-dditions to T-otal.

Thanks for all your help everyone, at least I know I could practice making these. If I don't hit precision first time it will not be a loss.


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## Wizard69 (Aug 28, 2017)

JCSteam said:


> Norman I always thought of it as V-ague A-dditions to T-otal.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your help everyone, at least I know I could practice making these. If I don't hit precision first time it will not be a loss.




The key here is that you only really need precision in one place.   That would be the shoulders that bear on the underside of the T-slot.    It should be rather easy to keep these surfaces in the same plane on lathe cut T nuts or bolts.   What you want here is that the nut or bolt bear evenly on both the left and right sides of the slots.  

On T-nuts the tolerance can be a bit looser than on a T-bolt as slop in the threads allow some tilt of the nut.   In any event don't get stressed out on precision, forged T-bolts are often left as forged with only the critical surfaces cleaned up.  As noted by suggestions above these don't have to be perfect to get the job done.  

The other reality you may run into is that sometimes your buts and bolts are pulling up against as casted surfaces, so again excessive precision does you no good.


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## goldstar31 (Aug 28, 2017)

It should be  re-iterated that the 'Myford' slots are milled out with a tee slot cutter and whilst there is no problem which arises from an uneven casting, there is precious little 'meat'/ thickness up to the top of the boring table - or even the vertical slide. So it is reasonably safe when part to be held is flat  and of a large area, trouble arises when two long bolts hold down things like castings.

As I have experienced, the boring table can either be bowed or snapped. I have a broken circular tee slot spigot on a top slide of a Super7B which was victim of someone not heeding sound guidance. Cleeve who wrote Screwcutting in the Lathe experienced the slot breakage and replaced his broken boring table in Steel( by Myford itself)

I'm repeating myself but the point must be made

Norm


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## JCSteam (Aug 28, 2017)

Thank you wizard and Norm. After talking with Norm the other night, I have an idea how I can block the metal to be machined. And Norm makes a good point on making sure it is all clamped and the load is evenly spaced. It looks like T nuts are the way to go, and try get them as accurate as possible. 

This question came about because looking through what was sold with the lathe I had a faceplate and clamps but nothing to secure them. Similarly there was the cross slide which had the tee grooves, so my assumption was that there's no point in making things twice and if possible make fixings compatible with both. 

During this thread I have already realised there's going to have to be a steep learning curve, plus a lot of reading and digesting of information. 

It does appear that these will be a good starting project. As I'll be using a lot of techniques new to me that most of you take as second nature. For example feeding the crosslide by hand, clamping stock bar to the cross slide securely and evenly spaced, and in line with where I want to cut. 

Learnt a lot from this thread alone so thank you to all that's contributed


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## kwoodhands (Aug 28, 2017)

I would buy the clamping set. You can also buy separate sizes of studs and T-nuts if needed. I have made T nuts from aluminum stock for lighter duty applications. I hold a Dial Indicator with a T-nut on the mill instead of a magnetic base which often gets in my way. Another use for the light duty T-nuts is to hold a lever valve on a compressed air line to cool the cutter on the mill.
I imagine you do not have a mill yet. Though it is possible to mill with your lathe it is not practical for inexpensive tooling like t-nuts. 
mike


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## JCSteam (Aug 28, 2017)

Thanks Mike, nope no mill, a rough list of tooling I own. 
Lathe, faceplate x2, clamps, lathe dog, 4" 4jaw, 3"3 jaw, 3"4jaw hand tightened, various tapered drills, a couple of tapered reamers, lots of taps and a few dies, (some worn some ok), lots of HSS boring bars, cutting tools. Set of rough cut files, small fine cut files, general screwdrivers, and also a 1-13mm drill set. Not a lot for my £300 eh? 

If you ain't gathered yet I'm a poor machinist, lacking knowledge and funds. But one thing I always have is enthusiasm, I got loads of that lol.


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## bmac2 (Aug 28, 2017)

Hey JC in some ways youre in luck. Looks like back in the 50s no one had any money. Just lots of enthusiasm and a willingness to develop a skill (sorry no APP for IOS or Android) A lot of people were turning to books like the ones David Gingery and others wrote to make their own metal working machines. To me DIY or shop made tooling just means lighter cuts and slower feed rates. 
In June 1957 Science and Mechanics ran this article for a lathe milling attaching from cold-rolled flat bar. I was very close to starting one before I found a used mini mill cheap. 

View attachment Science and Mechanics lathe-milling-attach.pdf


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## goldstar31 (Aug 29, 2017)

bmac2 said:


> In June 1957 Science and Mechanics ran this article for a lathe milling attaching from cold-rolled flat bar. I was very close to starting one before I found a used mini mill cheap.


 
Just to expand the subject. L C Mason was the Tractor bloke and also wrote several books, one of which was  Building the Small Lathe. Again, he wrote screeds of stuff on machining in Model Engineer.

Very readable, very accomplished.

I recall reading his bit in ME on how to set a lathe tool to give a fine finish--- without hitting the proper centre height of the tool.

JC MUST read him and many other contributors

N


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## perko7 (Oct 20, 2017)

I had to make some T-nuts for a vertical slide. No access to milling machine and unable to buy some the right size. Used some square stock the same width as the base of the slot. Took me not more than about an hour of hacksawing and filing to make 4 nuts. Worth it for the opportunity to improve my filing technique, but now that i've done it i'll be using the vertical slide and some milling cutters in the lathe if i have to do it again.


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