# Hercus Model AR lathe



## Shikyo (Jul 9, 2013)

I found this ad on the Craigslist.
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/tls/3920411713.html
How much is a Hercus AR lathe worth providing there is nothing missing nor broken? By searching online, I have learned that it was a clone of 9" South Bend lathe and made in Australia. The seller asking for $2500 for the lathe, a Rockwell band saw and an Ashina bench-top drill press. I think the latter of two combined probably worth $400 or so. Is the lathe worth $2000? If the seller take a best offer, I don't mind paying a fair price for them, however, I don't want to insult the seller by too low offer.
Is it a good lathe? Could I fix it with South Bend lathe parts?


I am a Japanese and I am aware of the quality of the Ashina DP and I also checked selling prices of those at Yahoo Auction site. Those have been sold regularly for around 10000 ~ 20000 Yen, that is $100 to 200.


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## jack620 (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi,

Serial number 9874 was built in 1965.  I recently bought a late 80s Hercus 260 ATM in Australia for $2400. I think $2000 is too much for that lathe. Many South Bend parts will fit the Hercus. I guess it would be worth about the same as a SB9 of similar age in similar condition?

Here is a Forum specially for Hercus lathes:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f189/

Regards,
Chris


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## Kaleb (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm running a 1950 Hercus model A, and I reckon they're great machines. So my opinion would be go for it, especially since it's a roller bearing model, which means you could get those higher speeds for running carbide if you change the pulleys on the primary drive from the motor. (Mine's a plain bearing model) I'd also be considering the accessories in what I would pay for it. I'd suggest asking for some more photos of those, as they can be worth quite a bit too, particularly things like a taper turning attachment or vertical slide.


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## clivel (Jul 10, 2013)

I have been looking for a used lathe in the Vancouver area for a while so I regularly monitor Craigslist. The occasional bargain does come up, but when they do, they seem to sell very, very quickly and then the listing is removed.

But in many cases such as this, the sellers seem to be completely out of touch with reality with the prices they ask, one then sees these same overpriced machines re-listed week after week. For example a SB 9a that was regularly listed for a few months at $1500 until a few weeks ago, it was not in great shape and only came with a 3 jaw chuck, I imagine he either gave up or eventually accepted a realistic offer. But the most outlandish price I have seen in a long time is the Myford Super 7 http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/bnc/tls/3918227231.html currently listed at $6800 (albeit with a small Atlas mill).

Anyway although the Hercus is a South Bend clone, and many SB parts may fit the Hercus, given the choice in North America I would rather go for a SB simply because one would be assured of obtaining compatible parts should the need arise.

But, if I had $2500 to spend on a lathe right now, I would seriously consider http://www.busybeetools.com/products/METAL-LATHE-10IN.-X22IN.-WITH-DIGITAL-READOUT.html and still have a few hundred dollars change to put towards a mill.
Clive


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## Iggsy (Jul 10, 2013)

I think $2K is too much as well. I think around the $1K mark would be better. I paid $800 for my Hercus 260.


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## Shikyo (Jul 10, 2013)

Hello Jack620
Thank you. I posted the same at the Woodworking forum.


Since I haven't done any metal working before, I am not sure myself what I should look for in lathe. Wanting something small and affordable I also have been checking
the local Craigslist for the last several months. I know Busy Bee sells 10x22 with variable speed for $1850 and Grizzly sells similar lathe with a slightly larger spindle bore 
for $1600, although I don't spend that much money if I can avoid it. This coming weekend we three (wife and daughter) are planning to go to Seattle for three days, I am thinking of going to Grizzly on the way back home. (No, they don't know what I am thinking of.)
I probably should try to offer $1000 for the Hercus lathe before I go to Seattle.
Grizzly also sells South Bend 8K lathe for $2260. It doesn't come with a 4-jaw chuck, steady and follow rests etc. so it probably would cost around $3000 in total.

My blog.
http://sawadashikyo.blogspot.ca/


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## clivel (Jul 10, 2013)

Hi Shikyo,
The Grizzly 10" may have a larger spindle bore than the BusyBee, but the BusyBee lathe has the advantage of both a reversible feed and an automatic cross feed, both of which I personally think would be an advantage (but to be honest I am pretty much a novice  as well).
The owner of Grizzly now owns the South Bend name, and is selling Chinese made lathes such as the 8K under the SB name. These are supposedly of better quality than other Chinese made machines, but even then I doubt that the huge price disparity is warranted.
Clive


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## Shikyo (Jul 10, 2013)

"a reversible feed and an automatic cross feed, "
I need some help on this features.


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## jack620 (Jul 10, 2013)

Shikyo,

Look up Mrpete222 on YouTube. He has lots of videos about Southbend lathes. I think he also has a video on what to look for in a used south bend.


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## Hopper (Jul 10, 2013)

Shikyo said:


> Is it a good lathe? Could I fix it with South Bend lathe parts?
> .



Yes. The Hercus was a very good quality lathe in its day.
But it depends on how much wear and how it has been treated since it was made many years ago.
The Hercus was the standard lathe used in schools, technical colleges and apprentice training centre. I spent the first year of my toolmaking apprenticeship in the training centre, mostly using Hercus lathes and the Bridgeport mill.

I always found the Hercus to be well made, good material, good design (thanks to Southbend!) and having also used a Southbend in later years, I would say the Hercus is every bit as good as a SB.

But I have no idea what its worth in your part of the world. Around here I recently turned one down that was for sale for $1200 with the original stand/catch tray. It was too worn, had seen lots and lots of use. But others in really good condition with accessories could bring $2,000 maybe. Maybe. An old scrappy one is on eBay Australia right now with only one bid of $200 so far.


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## clivel (Jul 11, 2013)

Shikyo said:


> "a reversible feed and an automatic cross feed, "
> I need some help on this features.


As I said I am still much of a novice myself, so if my explanations are not completely correct, hopefully someone will jump in and correct me:

On both the Grizzly and the Busy Bee the the lathe saddle can be automatically traversed under power from right to left for screw cutting or for a constant feed. In addition, the Busy Bee also has a lever which allows one to reverse the feed direction so that the saddle can also be moved automatically from left to right as well. Without a reversible feed this must be done manually.

The automatic cross feed applies the power feed to the cross slide, moving the tool in and out under power rather than manually.
Clive


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## GWRdriver (Jul 11, 2013)

Many years ago I became aware there was such a thing as the Hercus Lathe, and equal to or better than South Bend for considerably less money including shipping from Oz, so I contacted company to inquire about importing one.  I received a response from the president of the company telling me they would be more than happy to ship me a lathe, but I would need to place the order through their USA distributor in South Carolina.  I contacted the USA distributor and was told in a matter of fact way that  "We don't have one, we haven't imported one yet, we don't have plans the import one, and we won't import one for you."  Well alrighty then.


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## Shikyo (Jul 11, 2013)

Hi Clivel
Thank you for explaining features.


I checked prices of South Bend 9 lhttp://for-sale.yakaz.com/south-bend-9-inch-latheathe and foud majority of them are listed for under $1000,
although I see occasionally very high prices.
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-power-tools-Southbend-9-Lathe-W0QQAdIdZ502307048

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...-x-24-BED-POWER-CROSS-FEED-W0QQAdIdZ500822665

I was hoping to go to Grizzly store and bring something back, however, I found the store doesn't open on Saturday nor Sunday. Since we now can  bring back $800 worth things without paying taxes, I was excited thinking of getting something expensive from Grizzly.

I now have more time to keep eye on the Hercus on Craigslist and study more about Busy Bee's lathe.


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## Hopper (Jul 12, 2013)

GWRdriver said:


> Many years ago I became aware there was such a thing as the Hercus Lathe, and equal to or better than South Bend for considerably less money including shipping from Oz, so I contacted company to inquire about importing one.  I received a response from the president of the company telling me they would be more than happy to ship me a lathe, but I would need to place the order through their USA distributor in South Carolina.  I contacted the USA distributor and was told in a matter of fact way that  "We don't have one, we haven't imported one yet, we don't have plans the import one, and we won't import one for you."  Well alrighty then.



I wonder how much South Bend was paying the distributor?


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## clivel (Jul 15, 2013)

Hi Shikyo,
It seems that the price of used machinery on the East coast - both the US and Canada is much more reasonable than on the West coast, I guess that there was much more industry in the East, leading to a larger supply of used machines, so one can't really judge prices here by Ontario prices.

Have you seen this: http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/tls/3935899816.html
A milling machine and Atlas 12x36 lathe for $2000. Perhaps the seller would be amenable to selling them separately so you maybe be able to get the lathe for a reasonable price. The lathe looks to be in good condition and on what appears to be a factory stand.
Clive


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## Shikyo (Jul 16, 2013)

Hi clivelYa, I saw it, and I thought the lathe was to large for me. There is another one for $1200, however, it is even bigger. I would have bought if the lathe were a little smaller, since I probably would want a mill soon. There was also a Grizzly lathe for $500. I contacted the seller yesterday and was told it had been sold. I thought you might have bought it. I saw the Hercus lathe last night and gave him an offer.


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## jack620 (Jul 16, 2013)

Shikyo,
Good luck with your offer. They are a great lathe if in good condition. I recently fitted a VFD to my Hercus and it's one of the best modifications you can make. I haven't had to change the belt positions since the VFD was fitted.
Chris


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## Shikyo (Jul 17, 2013)

I got a counter offer of $1500 against my original offer of $1200 for the lathe and drill press.
He wants me to take the band saw also. I don't need another BS since I have gotten already two. I also have a floor type drill press, however, I am interested in the DP. since the brand has been considered as the Japanese best. I haven't gotten hardly any tools classified "the best". except a wood lathe, Oneway 2436 in my garage.


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## clivel (Jul 17, 2013)

Hi Shikyo,
Given the current market in Vancouver, I think that $1500 for the lathe even without the drill press although not cheap, is not excessive. You may do better if you wanted to wait, but it could take months for a better deal to come up. I am of course assuming that it is in reasonable condition and comes with at least a 3 jaw & a 4 jaw chuck, etc.

The $500 Grizzly wasn't bought by me, I didn't even see the listing , reasonably priced machines seem to be sold very very quickly and the listings are then removed.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jul 17, 2013)

clivel said:


> Hi Shikyo,
> The Grizzly 10" may have a larger spindle bore than the BusyBee, but the BusyBee lathe


they are made by the same company and have same specs
Grisly lathe G0750G
Busy Bee CT 043N and there are two more company
that sells the same product with different mane plate
I had a real SB 9x??? and have had other Grisly and "now" the CT043N and others I even had a Rivet lathe all I can say is if you take the time to set them up properly you can't tell the difference as far as work produce.
Better quality only the bearing quality on a lathe can bump it up by many hundred's of dollars.
As a 40years old experience model making I cant tell the difference


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## Shikyo (Jul 17, 2013)

Hi canadianhorsepower

Thank you for replying. I have some more qustions.

Which one do you recommend?
*A Chinese 10x22 lathe with either 8 speeds or VFD for $1300 to $1900.
*South Bend copy Hercus AR lathe for $1000.

I became a member here, thinking I want to make engines sometime soon.

I will make sure I will not pay more than $1000 for the Hercus and a 3-jaw and 4-jaw are included. Are there any Hercus specific items should be included in the package? Did it come with loose gears? Steady and follow rests are important to have?

Thank you


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## Shikyo (Jul 19, 2013)

Thank you everybodyI decided not to purchase the Hercus lathe.
The seller insists $1500 for the lathe, drill press and band saw without motor.
I told him a motor for the band saw will cost $150 or more, so his band saw has hardly any value,
however, he still wants $1500 and nbo.
I figured he basically wants $1300 for the lathe alone
I am now thinking of a Chinese lathe with VFD.
Does anyone know when Busy Bee goes on sale sometime soon?


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## canadianhorsepower (Jul 19, 2013)

Does anyone know when Busy Bee goes on sale sometime soon?[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> I had one of those and AWSOME loved it
> 
> 
> http://www.busybeetools.com/products/METAL-LATHE-13IN.-X-24IN.-WITH-STAND.html


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