# Marble lifting automation



## Brian Rupnow (Oct 5, 2013)

I have finally decided what I will build next. I want something new and different to run with one on my many model engines. I haven't been able to find any full sized machinery to replicate, but I have become fascinated by "marble machines" on Youtube. There are some fascinating marble lifting devices shown there. Of course they are mostly made of wood, and perhaps just a little crude by machinists standards, but have some brilliant thought put into the mechanisms themselves. So---Since imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I have decided to try my hand at building a marble lifting automation machine in metal. Of course, one of the first things I have to do is to figure out just HOW some of these things actually work.--So--It begins with some "Crap-o-cad" sketches to first get a handle on the idea---


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 5, 2013)

Having roughed out an idea, after watching a Youtube video twenty times to see what is actually happening, and making a preliminary sketch, I then move to Solidworks, where I can create it in 3D to some kind of "scale", and see how the parts would go together, and what sizes of material I would use to make the components.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 5, 2013)

Of course it helps a great deal to then be able to animate things and see if they are going to behave in the way that I anticipated. The dark blue "marble" is shown in all of the different motions---In reality it would enter from the top left hole, be transported down and around the sliding red block cavity, ad then be shoved up through a second hole in the overhead blue part and into a clear glass vertical tube and be accumulated there, prevented from falling back down the tube by the grey sliding component. At this stage of the game, I don't have to make the animation any clearer than it is.--This is not nearly so much about a flawless animation as it is about getting all of the motions clear in my head.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 5, 2013)

There!! I think I got it.--My goodness, there is an amazing amount of inter-related geometry to get everything doing what it's supposed to!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 6, 2013)

The next step is to convert everything into plate and angle sizes that are readily available and add appropriate threaded holes and counterbores. There is still a bit more work before I am ready to pull detail drawings from it. That crank with the green handle, is going to become a 1/2" shaft supported in  some form of bearing with a 5" diameter pulley on it, that can be driven by an o-ring drive belt from one of my engines.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 6, 2013)

These devices are very interesting, as they harken to the mechanical automation of the first half of the twentieth century, prior to PLC's and electronic controls. I have worked on hundreds of automated machines as part of what I do professionally, but I've had very little to do with this type of automation. I would like to build this machine in "modules" that are essentially a stand alone piece of machinery that can operate totally on its own (driven by some form of engine of course), but can also be expanded into part of a greater complex of machines. The problem seems to be that you mustn't "paint yourself into a corner" drive-wise.  Whatever type of motive force operates the first machine must be of some type that can be "extended" to drive the other machines in the complex. Although it would be possible to use a "line shaft" to operate individual machines, this type of machinery generally didn't. Machine A fed power on to machine B which in turn fed power on to machine C and so on--. The other plus is that instead of having to build a very complex 500 hour machine, it can be built in much smaller segments as in blocks of "50 hour" machines that still can be operated on their own.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 6, 2013)

There--That's almost enough for one day.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 6, 2013)

I have an absolutely amazing collection of ,umm, errr, well I guess you'd call it junk!!! I always buy a bit more material than I need whenever I get involved in a project. After five years, and countless projects, its time to start cleaning out my stockpile. Its all short ends, offcuts, bits and pieces, but I just hate to throw any of it away. Perhaps this project will let me get rid of some stuff instead of adding to it.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 6, 2013)

All right!!--Hang on tight!!! Here we go---


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 6, 2013)

Sometimes you eat the bear--Sometimes the bear eats you!!! I was feeling very proud of myself for just finishing the first two pieces of the marble machine. Then I noticed that the drawing called for 3/16" reamed holes and I had put in 1/4" reamed holes. Well POOP!! Nah, its okay--I'm the designer. I can get away with that. I'll just make the mating part 1/4" diameter.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 6, 2013)

I think I'll go here next. I'm not sure about the snap ring groove size. I'll have to buy some snap rings and check it.


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## Swifty (Oct 7, 2013)

You can google charts that will give you all the required sizes for snap rings to fit on the shaft.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 7, 2013)

Swifty--I've got burned on that before. The snap rings they stock at my local "nuts and bolts" store don't always match whats in the charts. I find it much safer to have the snap rings in my hands before I cut the grooves for them.


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## vascon2196 (Oct 7, 2013)

Very cool Brian...I eat this Kinematic stuff right up.

Looking forward to seeing this through.


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## ddmckee54 (Oct 7, 2013)

I've always wondered what a metal marble pump would look like.  Guess I'm going to find out.

Don


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## wagnmkr (Oct 7, 2013)

I will be watching this as well. I feel another Rupnow Wonder in the air. Methinks I need to work faster on my projects!

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 7, 2013)

wagnmkr said:


> I will be watching this as well. I feel another Rupnow Wonder in the air. Methinks I need to work faster on my projects!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom


Are you home from your holiday already? Hope you had a good time. I need someone else to start posting a "Rupnow Engine" build.---Many of the people who first stepped up to build one have kind of faded away!!!


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## wagnmkr (Oct 7, 2013)

Hi Brian,

Yup, time goes by way too fast when one is having fun! I got home last night.

I am going this week I hope to get some of the material I need. I want to do the air cooled version, but so far I can't find a supplier for cast iron for the head.

I need to tweak my machinery a tad and hopefully I will be at it next week. It will be a slow build though as I have no idea what I am doing.

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 7, 2013)

Every day--a little bit. Not too much tonight. After 9 hours on the computer designing a new machine for a customer I don't have much energy left. I whittled out 2 links and found some 1/4" cold rolled. I'm too tired to start grinding a cutting tool for e-clip grooves, so I'll leave that for tomorrow night.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 7, 2013)

*It will be a slow build though as I have no idea what I am doing.*
Never admit that !!-----


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## wagnmkr (Oct 8, 2013)

OK ... I am a whiz at this stuff and the engine will be running later today

Cheers

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 8, 2013)

I just checked the junk box, and I found a piece big enough to make this if I can plug a couple of holes. Don't know WHO the darn fool was that went and drilled holes in all my good scrap-----


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 8, 2013)

Well, that's tonights bite of the elephant. I have a formula for fixing holes in the pieces I want to use. It goes like this--Turn plug .001 to .002 oversize from hole, coat plug with Red Loctite, get big "Turtle Killer" hammer, run out to anvil and --KERBLAM!!! Hole is gone!!! If you have good eyes you might be able to see the outline of the plugs. There are two of them.


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## ddmckee54 (Oct 9, 2013)

You should have made the plugs out of brass, then you could have claimed that they were bling.  Now everybody knows they're just plugs.

Don


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 9, 2013)

A rooty tooty toot and a riggy jiggy jig and the parts start piling up!! Now I have to figure out a way to hold a hacksaw blade in my axa tool holder to cut some e-clip grooves on the lathe---


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 9, 2013)

Well Dang!!! Why didn't somebody tell me how easy this was?-Wait!!---Maybe they did---!!!! This is a really hokey set up, kinda like running with a pointed stick---but it worked great. I put what I considered a reasonable cutting edge with about 10 degrees clearance rake on the hacksaw blade, squeezed it in behind a short piece of cutting tool and ran the screw thats on the far end of the holder down onto a double thickness of hacksaw blade so it wouldn't slip backwards. Cut the dandiest e-clip groove you ever seen. Don't try this without adult help----Don't try this at home---Yada Yada Yada--


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## canadianhorsepower (Oct 9, 2013)

what is that parting off tool doing 
simply for the pictures


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2013)

canadianhorsepower said:


> what is that parting off tool doing
> simply for the pictures


Luc--Look at post #11 in this thread.


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## canadianhorsepower (Oct 10, 2013)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Luc--Look at post #11 in this thread.


 
Brian --- I figure that one out but what did you do whit
the hacksaw blade that e clip was purchase 

Btw I finally got my new motor installed on my lathe. It spin so fast
compare to the other one that I had to change my belt position on the pulley.
Ive be making chips for two days no glitch nothing 
so tomorrows plan is to install my milling and smaller lathe behind my big one and finish the Rupnow motor after I had my share of down time 
and I see the other guys running there's


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2013)

Not one of my better digital photographs, but--That whole e-clip and welded link thing went very well. I had put a .030 x 45 degree bevel on the side of the link arms that was to receive the "weld"--actually silver solder, and a .040 x 45 degree chamfer on the head of the 1/4" round cold rolled. That way when everything is ground flush, I still have lots of silver solder in the joint.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2013)

Luc--Perhaps the picture explains it better. Those in the picture are e-clips. They don't need snap ring pliers to install them, they just push on. To remove them, wedge the corner of a screwdriver between the shaft and one of the inner "notches" in the e-clip, and you can pop it right off. And for a 1/4" shaft, you buy a 1/4" e-clip. The place where you buy them have a chart to tell you width and depth of slot that you are required to put in the shaft.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2013)

Oh Yeah!!! I like this!!--Its starting to look like one of those old time killer catapults they used to knock down castle walls----


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2013)

Yesterday I was told, on another forum, that this build log was  not welcome, because it isn't an engine. I don't see very many responses on this forum either, so perhaps this is not the type of model building that people want to see. If you look at this build log, say hello, give me a heads up. I find this type of thing as intriguing as model engines, but perhaps I have it wrong.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2013)

I think I'll go here now, because I'm getting a bunch of little pieces that need to attach to something bigger so I don't lose them all----


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## wagnmkr (Oct 10, 2013)

Brian, I for one am fascinated by this type of thing and I am watching the progress.

Cheers

Tom


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## Jyman (Oct 10, 2013)

Brian, I'm watching it because I love the marble machines. They are always interesting to watch.  And if you wanted you could get them to fall onto a water wheel that turns a drive shaft. Then you could call it an engine I guess. 
Can't wait to see it run, 
Jonathan


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## Omnimill (Oct 10, 2013)

:big:Stop talking and get on with the build Brian! :big:


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## hobby (Oct 10, 2013)

Brian, I'd rather watch the progress builds of non engine projects, that deal with mechanical movements, (kinematic machines), because for me its interesting to see the linkages, and joints and fittings required to get some outstanding mechanical movements.

There is a lot of design thinking that goes into mechanical models, and its very inspiring to watch your design ideas come to life, starting from just a piece of paper, with design constraints as a list, to the stages of actual drawings and finally the build itself.

Your build blogs are extremely enjoyable to watch and be inspired by.

Keep up the great designs.


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## ddmckee54 (Oct 10, 2013)

Build on young man, build on.  Besides they apparently have a very narrow opinion of what an engine is.  Remember that catapults, trebuchets, onagers and battering rams were called 'siege engines".  Tell them to look up the definition of an engine - a machine that converts energy into mechanical force or motion.  Yup, you got that covered - definitely an engine.

Don


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## AussieJimG (Oct 10, 2013)

hobby said:


> Brian,
> 
> There is a lot of design thinking that goes into mechanical models, and its very inspiring to watch your design ideas come to life, starting from just a piece of paper, with design constraints as a list, to the stages of actual drawings and finally the build itself.
> 
> ...



I'll go along with that!

Sheesh ... some people need to get out more.

Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2013)

Ready---Aim----Holy Crow--I'd hate to be on the receiving end of that ball bearing!! Actually, the arm is just about at the elevation where the ball bearing topples out from gravity. Its plain that if I want the ball to stay in the pocket until the arm is vertical, I'm going to have to put a neodymium magnet in the bottom of the pocket.


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## Swifty (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm following along Brian, any machining project is fine by me.

Paul.


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## Swifty (Oct 11, 2013)

Just read all the posts on the other site, some people seem to be really anal about engines only. Funny enough, there are other postings about building dividing heads, rotary tables etc which are definitely not engines.

Paul.


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## Smithers (Oct 11, 2013)

Hi Brian,

Yet another fascinating build from the Rupnow stables.

Andrew


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## Omnimill (Oct 11, 2013)

Swifty said:


> Just read all the posts on the other site, some people seem to be really anal about engines only. Funny enough, there are other postings about building dividing heads, rotary tables etc which are definitely not engines.
> 
> Paul.



It's just one Mod on the other site who has a problem with Brian's project. Don't know why, as you say loads of non engine stuff on there


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## danstir (Oct 11, 2013)

Another vote for continuing, I have always enjoyed your posts!


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## ddmckee54 (Oct 11, 2013)

Brian:

About the pocket, from what I have seen about marble machines that transport a marble vertically, the pcoket is not just a semi-circular depression, it is deep enough and angled so that gravity holds the marble in place until the arm or whatever reaches it maximum position.  You might have a hard time getting the magnet size and location tuned to release the bearing at the right position every time, but gravity will always have the same effect.  That being said I think you can probably still save the part you already have made, just modify the pocket.

Don


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## ShopShoe (Oct 11, 2013)

Brian,

Late to it, but YES: anything you design and build is interesting to me. I especially like your free description of the whole process and drawings made available.

Rant: If "appropriate" is defined too narrowly, then we're all building the same thing as if it were a kit without learning anything new.

I'm in this hobby for problem solving and thinking "outside the box."

Keep it up and good luck,

--ShopShoe


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## krankie frankie (Oct 11, 2013)

I did your beam engine a couple of years ago it was fun to build and runs nicely. I always enjoyed your stuff so keep on keeping on.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 11, 2013)

Thanks for the support guys. Sometimes when something like this happens, I start thinking "Is it them or is it me!!!!"


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 11, 2013)

Where to go next?? I have decided that the big green baseplate shown in one of the assembly posts (post #7) earlier in the thread is going to morph into a 2 1/2" wide x 11 1/4" long piece of flatbar. That is big enough to hold all of the other components, and makes the assembly a true "stand alone" unit. All it needs is a clear lexan riser tube and a return ramp to get the marbles back down to the lifter/pitching arm. I probably won't be doing something that simple, but it always is nice to have something designed as a mostly complete "module" that contains 99% of all the bits and pieces, and can be added to other "modules" at a later date.--Brian


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## Maxx (Oct 11, 2013)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Thanks for the support guys. Sometimes when something like this happens, I start thinking "Is it them or is it me!!!!"


It's you!............ Just kidding! ;D
You can bet that whoever is complaining would most likely be posting "their" build of one.
Carry on young man.


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## jwcnc1911 (Oct 11, 2013)

Brian, let's start a marble machines powered by model engines forum 

We'll call it HMMPBME, short for Home Marble Machines Powered by Model Engines.  We'll dog any one actually building an engine as the focus will be marble machines.


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## AlanHaisley (Oct 12, 2013)

Keep going, Brian. Linkages are good - besides it's going to give you something to drive with one of your engines. Hmm, could two engines be used backwards through a differential to power it if one didn't have enough oomph?
Alan


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 12, 2013)

Keep your heads down boys!! As soon as I get some dry powder for this thing--KABLOOOY!!! I got up early this morning and made the base before Momma got up. Now she's up, and I have to go get involved in the "Big house Slick up"--Kids and Grandkids and spouses and friends are coming for Thanksgiving tomorrow and Mommas back isn't real good, so I get the vacuuming duties.


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## Shopguy (Oct 12, 2013)

Brian,
I'm another who is always interested in your projects and applaud the fact that you make the effort and take the time to post on this forum.  While I personally might never built a marble automation there is always something to be learned from seeing what you and others are doing. Over the past five years that I have been following this forum there have been many things and ideas that have contributed to my continuing education.
True this forum is for those making model engines but and that's a big but there is a lot more to it than cranks,valves and pistons. Learning about process is important also.   A case in point your description of using a hacksaw blade, ground, as a cutter for e clip grooves may be useful for someone who has never needed to cut a really narrow groove in a shaft.
Don't let the purists discourage you, there will always be those who will criticize. Sometimes I think it's just because they can.  I don't necessarily agree with every thing that is posted on this forum or any other for that matter, but in most cases my opinion isn't going to make a bit of difference. For some folks especially those just getting started in the hobby such criticism could well put them right off contributing, which just isn't right.
That said, I'm following this your latest build with interest. 
I will get down off my soap box now.
Keep it going brother.
Ernie


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 12, 2013)

After my vacuuming duties, and my lawn cutting duties, I stole a couple more hours and machined the hold downs for the slider base. No excitement there, just milling and adding counter-bored holes. With all of the bolts tightened down, the slider still slides, so I must have got the clearances about where I wanted them to be. One thing I'm beginning to see is that I may need to put a gear drive on this thing rather than a simple o-ring drive. O-rings make great drive belts for this model engineering stuff, but they really won't transmit very much torque. They just slip. I think I'm going to change the pulley shown in the model for a spur gear about 4 1/2" in diameter and drive it with a 3/4" diameter pinion on a jackshaft. I will put the o-ring pulley on the jack shaft. I went around to all the motorcycle and ATV repair shops yesterday, trying to mooch any old spur gears, but no luck. I can cut my own spur gear, but I would rather have found a "ready made" set. I did get an electric motor armature with a 1/2" diameter helical end on it and a matching 1.5" diameter helical gear, but there isn't enough reduction in that, so I'll save it for a future project.


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## Tinkerer58 (Oct 12, 2013)

I follow your builds here Brian seeing it isn't welcome on the other site. I have let my thoughts be know over there regarding your build and it is as follows:
_"Let us look at all this logically, all engines were built and developed to do work. What is the point of building an engine to just sit there and make noise and blow smoke. It is much more interesting to show them doing all sorts of work. Engines were developed to power machinery, and move vehicles so what is wrong with people posting items that are accessories to the engines made.
It is all pretty childish not to allow him to continue his build here. I thing some people who are opposed to it need to get a life and stop dragging others down into their miserable small minded world. Now that's my *****, like it or lump it I call a spade a spade and if it upsets anyone tough luck. You will always know where you stand with me, it's the Aussie in me."_


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## AussieJimG (Oct 13, 2013)

I am here as well  and I am following, learning and enjoying as I have each of your builds

I think anything that a (model) engineer builds is an engine. That includes fire engines, traction engines (I note that someone is building one of those on the other site), steam engines, engines of war and so on.

Some threads I follow, some I don't. But I don't feel called upon to demand that those I don't like be removed. And I object when someone else does. It spoils the cameraderie that I value.

It's a bit like breaking wind in a lift.

So good onya Brian, press on regardless.

Jim


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## AlanHaisley (Oct 13, 2013)

Brian,
Perhaps if the arm were reshaped like this it could hold the marble longer?
Alan


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 13, 2013)

Alan--it probably would, but the "catchers mitt" end has to have the capability of being loaded when horizontal. I think a magnet will be my answer. The other thing I'm not sure of, and won't know until I get the machine built, is just how rapidly that arm whips up to its hi position. The ball may not have time to fall out!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 13, 2013)

For what its worth--I sat pondering this mechanism today, and thinking that something wasn't quite right. I know it will work mechanically, that wasn't it. I went back to Youtube and watched a dozen similar marble lifting mechanisms. Then suddenly it hit me!!--Although my mechanism might work flawlessly, there was absolutely nothing to prevent the marble from falling out either side of the two pieces of angle that it sets between. I kicked this dog around for a while, not wanting to have to get into a major redesign. The solution I came up with was to reduce the center section of crankshaft from 1/2" diameter to 3/8" diameter, and put a couple of 1/16" "shields" on, one on each side of the angles, with 7/16" slots in them to let the crank slide in. The "marble" shown in red, can't get out through the 7/16" slot in the side shields (transparent yellow). I may have to slot the bottom of the shield to get it around the crankshaft, or I may just leave the bottom of the slope open--the marble never gets down to the bottom anyways.


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## RonGinger (Oct 14, 2013)

I am missing something here- how is a marble going to get into the pocket on the lifting arm- the part you called a catchers mitt? I see that the green angles will shift side to side, picking up a ball from the slot in the blue part, then pushing it out of the hole in the blue part. Thats not really a lift, it does pick one ball off the end of a line in the slot and push  it up, so its more of a 'one at a time' gate.

I do enjoy your posts, keep them coming.


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## AlanHaisley (Oct 14, 2013)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Alan--it probably would, but the "catchers mitt" end has to have the capability of being loaded when horizontal. I think a magnet will be my answer. The other thing I'm not sure of, and won't know until I get the machine built, is just how rapidly that arm whips up to its hi position. The ball may not have time to fall out!!!


 
Hmm...
Perhaps an autoloading trebushet

:hDe: Alan

As an Alternative to redesigning the sides to hold the marble, could the lifting block work with a slight hollow in its upper surface? It probably needs to be slight, since too much will jam the marbles.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 14, 2013)

Ron--In its simplest form, a clear lexan tube is attached to the top of the dark blue horizontal top bar directly above the hole. The tube is rigid and 6" tall. The balls accumulate in the tube as they are pushed thru the hole in the top of the dark blue tube. A spiral ramp leads from the top of the lexan tube around in a curve to end at a point just off the "catchers mitt". A spring loaded "stop gate" prevents marbles from running out until the descending "catchers mitt" pushed the spring loaded "stop gate" DOWN OUT OF THE WAY TO LET ONE BALL ESCAPE FROM THE RAMP INTO THE CATCHERS MITT. AS THE ARM SWINGS UP, THE SPRING LOADED STOP GATE POPS BACK UP AND PREVENTS ANYMORE BALLS FROM RUNNING OUT. DAMN I HATE CAPS LOCKS!!! That explains this one module, in its simplest form. In a more complex form the ramp from the top of the clear tubes leads the ball to other gravity influenced automation before it finally returns to the "catchers mitt.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 14, 2013)

AlanHaisley said:


> Hmm...
> Perhaps an autoloading trebushet
> 
> :hDe: Alan
> ...


 Alan--I thought about that, but sometimes there may be more than one ball in the stack.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 14, 2013)

Yes, I know. Its looking stranger and stranger---but so far its all good, haven't made anything backwards yet. I have the two angles that trap the bronze slider that makes everything go round and round, and the back bearing support, which also holds the overhead dark blue piece with the holes for the marbles in it.


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## ddmckee54 (Oct 14, 2013)

OOOOH - I'm really beginning to like the magnet idea now.  You can really go Rube Goldberg on us and make a trip hammer that knocks the ball out of the lifting arm when the arm is at the top of it's stroke.  Or maybe make it look like a boot and have it kick the ball out.  

We've got enough guys with crazy ideas and you're good enough, we'll get you entered in the annual Rube Goldberg comnpetion yet.

Don


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## Omnimill (Oct 14, 2013)

You've made a monster Brian ... Keep going!


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## wagnmkr (Oct 14, 2013)

Why oh why do I get the feeling that this is going to end up being REALLY awesome?

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 14, 2013)

And that girls and boys, is the front bearing support. I didn't have a piece of 1/2" cold rolled shaft to stick in the bearing supports, so I stuck one of my "sharpie" pens in the bearings. When the real crankshaft (maybe I should call it an offset shaft) gets in there, it will have a 3/4" offset "throw" riding in a brass slider block between those angles. That's what will make things go back and forth.


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## MCRIPPPer (Oct 15, 2013)

cool! looks like it might actually need a pretty powerful engine to run it.

are you planning to make it power an awesome marble track as well?


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 15, 2013)

This is going to require a fair bit of torque to drive it---thus the reduction gears shown.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 15, 2013)

Tonight I machined the brass slider block that fits on the "throw" of the crankshaft and rides between the two angles to make them slide back and forth as the crankshaft revolves. I used the old connecting rod trick, where-as I split the block of brass, bolted the two pieces back together, and then drilled and reamed on the split line. That lets me assemble it around the crankshaft. In the first picture the brass is upside down, so you can see the six #4-40 bolts which are countersunk in the one half and drilled and tapped in the other half. The second picture shows the piece of brass flipped over, so you can see the plain top that contacts the "marbles".


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 15, 2013)

MCRIPPPer said:


> cool! looks like it might actually need a pretty powerful engine to run it.
> 
> are you planning to make it power an awesome marble track as well?


Yes, I think I can guarantee "awesome" if I can make this very first part work.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 16, 2013)

The video pretty well says it all. Its just going 25 times faster than it will when I get the proper gearing on it.


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## wagnmkr (Oct 16, 2013)

Brian, now you just need a large basket about 50 feet away from that machine to catch the marbles

Looking good so far ...

Cheers,

Tom


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## AussieJimG (Oct 17, 2013)

The world's first magazine loaded automatic Trebuchet; it would have been a winner in ancient times.

Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 17, 2013)

Tonights bite of the elephant was that vertical piece of 1" x 1/4" with the two holes at the top. The next step will be the 1" square horizontal piece with the holes in it for the marbles to enter and exit. (It shows up as transparent blue in the 3D model.) I really don't know what to expect with it, because in spite of the wonders of 3D cad, there are some things you just can't tell about until you make it and see. I hope it goes as well as all the rest of it has so far. I'm not going to invest any times making gears until I'm sure it is going to work.--Speaking of gears, in the background you can see the armature with the helical gear cut into the 1/2" diameter end and the 1.5" diameter helical gear it mates with. I scrounged the pair out of a scrap bin at the local "fix-it" shop. I haven't has time to see if the material is too hard to bore for a center hole or not.


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## canadianhorsepower (Oct 17, 2013)

hey Brian Nice work quiet to 
I did solve my drill issue (like a loose canon ball for speed)
got a router speed controller for router at Busy Bee
Perfect


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 19, 2013)

IT WORKS!!! --ITS AWESOME!!! I have to go now and do husbandly things for the rest of the day, but I just put a fist-full of 11/16" diameter ball bearings thru the mechanism while turning the crankshaft slowly with a pair of vice grips, and it worked perfectly.


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## AussieJimG (Oct 19, 2013)

Woopee! Congratulations Brian, another triumph.

Jim


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## vascon2196 (Oct 19, 2013)

Awesome...looking forward to seeing it in action!

Chris


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 19, 2013)

Okay---A bit more about my successful test run. As I said in an earlier post, there are some things that no matter how well they are modelled in 3D, you still can't tell if they are going to work until you make the real part and "try it and see". I had no worries about the marble (actually an 11/16" diameter ball bearing) on the entering side of the escapement. All the marble had to do was fall down the hole. Gravity has seldom failed me!! It was on the other side, where the marble is pushed up thru the hole that had me worried. There isn't a lot of clearance on something like this, and I was worried that the marble would jam between the orbiting block on the crankshaft and the edge of the hole on the underside. The theoretical "intersection point" between the centerline of the escape hole on the underside of the top piece with the holes in it and the center of the orbiting block looked to me like it was going to be too tight and cause a jam, so I took my best guess and offset the intersection point .040" when I drilled the escape hole through the top piece. After finishing the top piece and bolting it in place, I dropped a marble into the entry side, and slowly rotated the crankshaft with the vice grips. Of course, the first thing that happened was that the "marble" fell out the open side of the twin angles and landed on my foot!!! (That is what the yellow side pieces in the latest 3D model are intended to prevent.) I tried again, only this time I held my thumb and finger over the open sides so the marble couldn't escape, and kept rotating the handle---and out popped the marble on the discharge side, slick as a whistle. I was so pleased that I fed 5 or 6 more marbles through, and nothing jammed up. I hunted around this evening and found some .045" stainless that I've been saving for years, and tomorrow morning I will make the side shields and bolt them in place. Once I get everything operating smoothly, I will post a video of the hand cranked version, before I get real serious about gears to make a reduction unit so the device can be driven be one of my i.c. engines.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2013)

We have good news to report on the marble moving front. The side shields do work to keep the marbles from falling out thru the sides, and with just the right combination of magnets glued into the back side of the pitching arm, the marble doesn't drop out before its supposed to. Nothing seems to jam or bind, and the speed you see things running at in this video is far more representative of the speed the machine will run at when powered by one of my i.c engines.


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## wagnmkr (Oct 20, 2013)

Errr ... Brian ... did you count how many marbles went on the floor? Beee Careful where you are walking!

Excellent job so far. I can see your gadget is going to be subject to all sorts of add ons in the future.

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2013)

It seems that PhotoBucket is once again screwing around with their website. It used to be when you posted a video, that the first "frame" of each video had "sprocket drive" holes along each side like old 8mm movie film. That way you knew it was a video when somebody posted it. Then they made the first frame look like an ordinary picture and nobody knew if it actually was a video or not. Now it seems, you only get the link to post, with no picture at all. Damn, I wish they would leave things alone!!! EDIT--EDIT--It seems they have fixed the problem now!!!


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## AussieJimG (Oct 20, 2013)

I am not a big fan of Photobucket, it takes so looong to load complared with YouTube.

Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2013)

Since I have been unable to find a satisfactory "ready made" gear to suit me, my next step may be to create the orange colored 108 tooth gear. The gear is a 24DP spur gear which I can make with the cutters I have. It is 4.5" pitch diameter, and with the rotary table and divider plates I have, it will require me to use 15 holes on an 18 tooth divider plate.--Yes, there is less than 3.33 degrees between the teeth and my rotary table is a 90:1 ratio.--That's going to make for a LOT of cranking. I like the look of the gear which I have modelled.--Rather than a solid plate hub, which is the easiest way to go, I think I will make the center section a built up weldment from steel and shrink the brass gear to the outside of it. Not because it will work any better, but because it will look better and presents a bit of a challenge.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2013)

AussieJimG said:


> I am not a big fan of Photobucket, it takes so looong to load complared with YouTube.
> 
> Jim


 
I don't mind putting my finished videos up on Youtube, but I always do a few "in process" videos and would rather have them up on Photobucket. I have a paid subscription to Photobucket. Someday when I get old and poor and no longer wish to pay the subscription,  thousand of videos and pictures are going to disappear off my posts.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2013)

It looks like there may be as much work in this gear as there was in the rest of the machine----


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2013)

It seems that the winds of change (or maybe members opinions) are blowing through the forum that told me two weeks ago that my marble machine build was not welcome there. Today they have posted a new policy about what gets displayed on their website, and my build is now welcome there. I am happy about that, because the site in question is one of the premier model engine building sites in the world, and it makes me very happy to now be accepted there, warts and all.---Brian


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## wagnmkr (Oct 20, 2013)

I am glad to hear they have changed their minds Brian.

Have you ever thought that if the marbles final destination was at the top of a tower and then they fell into a large water wheel affair with some very low gearing, your machine might be able to be self propelled and perpetual once you started it.

Cheers

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2013)

Tom--I've thought about selling the Brooklyn Bridge and Beach Front Property in Arizona too----


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 21, 2013)

I may not do any machining tonight. I meant to go down to my steel supplier today and pick up some cold rolled to start the hub for my built up gear, but after working 9 hours on my current design contract, I don't have much energy left and the steel supplier is closed now anyways. That's okay. I just downloaded Stephen King's latest novel onto my e-reader. Maybe tonight I'll just set in my big chair and let old Steve horrify me!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 22, 2013)

So---Here is the beginning to my 108 tooth gear. I only need a couple of inches of the 1 1/4" cold rolled but I bought a foot, because it will always get used. The 660 bronze which will become the actual gear was a "short" that was laying in the "shorts rack" and the steel pipe which will become the outer rim that the bronze gear attaches to is a piece of 4130 that just happened to be the right size.


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## wagnmkr (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm watching the built up gear with interest as I want to eventually make some built up flywheels using the same principle.

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 22, 2013)

This project is going to involve some rather "intense" machining (for me anyways). The diameters involved are right on the ragged edge of what my lathe chuck can open to and hold. This is the first step, boring and facing the 4130 steel "rim". I am using the "reverse jaws" in the chuck. When I locked the work up in the 3 jaw chuck, I used a 1/8" parallel between the back side of the work and each chuck jaw, so that I could run the boring bar in far enough for a complete "clean up" of the bore without my boring tool hitting the chuck jaws. The parallels were, of course, removed before I fired up the lathe. Now I have a "witness face" which is perfectly square to the bore.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 22, 2013)

Same-o  Same-o, only this time with the 660 bronze. The o.d of that bronze as it sets is 4.820". I have a note written on the wall over the lathe that says "Largest diameter I can hold with the reverse jaws is 5.25", so I am approaching the envelope. That's all the turning that I have to do until after the steel hub, rim, and spokes are welded together. Next thing I have to do is set up the rotary table to drill holes in the rim and hub every 60 degrees.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 22, 2013)

And this is where I will be going the next time I get a spurt of energy!!!


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## ddmckee54 (Oct 23, 2013)

Yup, you are well on your way to having a fully automated marble pump.

Don


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 23, 2013)

Tonight was rotary table night. I put a divider plate on so I could turn EXACTLY 60 degrees between each hole. First I drilled the 1 1/4" cold rolled that will become the hub for the gear. The 6 holes in it will be tapped. Then without moving my set-up I was able to mount the outer rim and drill 6 holes with a 3/16" diameter drill and then counterbore with a 3/8" endmill.  The plan is to thread the end of my six 3/16" diameter "spokes" on one end and put them thru the 3/16" holes in the outer rim, screw them into the hub, then cut them off flush with the rim outer diameter, assemble everything in a jig, and then mig weld the end of the spokes. That is what the 3/8" counterbore is for, to fill up with mig weld. Will it work?--I have no idea. After everything is welded in a jig, I will mount the 1 1/4" hub (which is left extra long at about 3") back into the lathe and turn the outer diameter of the rim to a proper fit to go into the inside the bronze that will have the gear teeth cut into it. I have drilled the holes 5/16" in from the face of the hub and the outer rim so I will be able to "clean up" the faces in my lathe.


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## pkastagehand (Oct 23, 2013)

A little off track of what you're doing Brian but have you seen the Great Ball Contraptions that show up at Lego conventions?  Search for GBC or Great Ball Contraption on youtube and other places.  Lots of ideas if you ever want to try another.  Some of them pretty crazy.

Paul


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 24, 2013)

Paul--I've only seen the wooden ones on Youtube. I don't think I want to make a career out of this one. Probably only a couple of lifting devices and return chutes. I know there are some monsters out there.---Brian


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## ddmckee54 (Oct 24, 2013)

Silly question about the jig for welding up the spokes of the wheel. Won't the 6 spokes self center the rim, or is the jig to keep the rim centered despite the welding stresses?

Don


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 24, 2013)

In theory the 6 spokes should keep everything centered. I have been burned by theoretical "should be's" enough times in the past that I will build a jig.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 24, 2013)

This is very interesting!!! I may go into business making ships wheels. And as far as the comment that was made by someone who said "That hub will be self centering."--Nah, not even close. I am going to have to set the hub up in the lathe chuck and using my dial indicator, chase the outer rim around by tapping it until its close to being concentric, before I make up a jig for welding.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 25, 2013)

Whenever somebody hears "Build a Jig" they automatically think of something complex. It isn't always that way. My jig for welding the gear was made from a piece of 1/2" aluminum plate. A 1/2" hole was drilled on center, a 1 3/8" counterbore .150" deep. and the outer edge turned away to leave a "spigot" that was the exact size of the inner ring diameter x 0.150 deep. I took a piece of 1/2" cold rolled steel about 2" long, drilled and tapped a 1/4"-20 hole in the end of it, then inserted it in the 1/2" bore in the end of my "hub" and cross pinned it there with a 1/8" spring pin. I set it up so that about 5/16" of the 1/2" rod extended past the face of my hub. That allowed me to set the entire built up pulley in the jig, run a 1/4" bolt thru a washer and thru the jig plate from the back side, and tighten the hub in place against the face of the 1 3/8" counterbore. The  1 3/8" counterbore was clearance on the hub o.d. because the actual locating was done by the 1/2" cold rolled. Then an assortment of welding clamps and c-clamps were used to clamp the outer rim tight against the jig.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 25, 2013)

And this is how the welding went---In the second picture down, you can see the 1/8" spring pin which was holding the 1/2" diameter cold rolled in the hole in my hub.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 25, 2013)

The welds were ground flush with my big stationary belt sander, then the welded up construction was put back in my lathe, the o.d turned to the correct diameter, and the bronze rim pressed and loctited in place. Then a few more cuts on the outer diameter of the bronze brought it down to the correct o.d. for a 108 tooth gear, and a couple of facing cuts to blend the exposed face.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 25, 2013)

Of course, I still have the other side to contend with, and to do that I will put a longer piece of 1/2" cold rolled into the center of the hub, put the spring pin back in place, and then hold onto the 1/2" cold rolled to face the other side.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 25, 2013)

The game plan has changed a little bit. I noticed when I was facing the 4130 outer rim and holding the hub in my 3 jaw chuck that I was getting some bad chatter. I think that may be related to the fact that the six 3/16" spokes have a certain amount of "springiness" to them. Now that I have a good face and shoulder on the built up part, I can put the reverse jaws in my chuck and hold onto the outside diameter to "face" the other side. Its late here now, and I won't do any actual machining until tomorrow, but this should give me a sturdier, less "springy" set up. I am leaving the hub as long as it is so I have something to hold onto with the chuck on my rotary table when I go to cut the gear teeth.


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## Cogsy (Oct 25, 2013)

Brian - How well did the O.D. turn with the weld points? I know you ground them flush first, but I assume you had to machine them at least a little to true up the OD. I've never tried to machine welds as I thought they'd be too hard for HSS tools.

On another note, I had to take one of my daughters on a school excursion yesterday, to a science-y place, where they had several 'marble lifting devices' although scaled up to use bowling balls and croquet balls. Very cool to watch and was a highly popular activity with all the visitors. I can see many more additions to your machine in the future.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2013)

Cogsy--I use 0.023" diameter fluxless wire in my mig welder. It seems to machine about the same as mild steel. Marble lifting machines are not really my "thing", but they do have a lot of unique and very intriguing mechanical components to them. I can see where one could get started on a simple one and end up making a career of it.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2013)

My clear lexan tube arrived this week, so now I have to machine a saddle for it to attach it to the top of the machine where the marbles are expelled. They will accumulate in the clear lexan tube before spilling out the top to cruise down a ramp.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2013)

I never had a single doubt
The marbles would go up the spout
I'm only half way done my friend--
I've yet to get them down again!!!


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## vascon2196 (Oct 26, 2013)

Looking awesome!


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2013)

The fickle finger of fate was waiting for me this morning!! I didn't feel like any major machining, so I had a big shop clean-up and then decided to set-up for cutting my 108 tooth gear. My mill table lacks about 3/8" of travel to fit the set-up in. My next resort will be to move everything to the outermost T-slot in the mill table. This creates a bit of a problem, because the hole spacing on my rotary table is such that the bolt nearest to me will have to hang out in the air. I guess that's why I have hold down (toe) clamps. Now I will go try and move everything over and see what happens.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2013)

I'm not sure if I'm being rewarded for living a good clean life, or being punished for things I have done in the past. I was able to move everything out to the outer T-slot, and it fits. I only have 1/16" clearance between the top of the bronze gear and the underside of my mills head, but a miss is as good as a mile!!! I had to modify the end of a toe clamp to get it in under the chuck and still clear everything, but its in there, and its tightened down. I still have one bolt thru the rotary table housing engaged with the center T-slot. I thin k I'm just about ready to start cutting teeth----All 108 of them!!!


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## Scott_M (Oct 27, 2013)

Brian 
Aren't worried about the same "springiness" from the spokes causing a problem here ?
Is the gear tooth minor diameter bigger than that 3 jaw ? Can you move directly to the chuck ?

Scott


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2013)

Now that, my friends, is one HUGE gear. Huge by model makers standards at any rate. The outer diameter is 4.583", and its the biggest blank that will fit into my milling machine. 108 teeth, 4.5" pitch diameter. It didn't really take as long to cut as I thought it would---maybe about 1 hour total. When I got to the point where I fed it through the cutter and didn't hear anything actually cutting, I breathed a huge sigh of relief. I have this deep seated horror of getting all the way around on a gear and then starting to cut away the teeth that are already cut.--It happens!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2013)

Scott_M said:


> Brian
> Aren't worried about the same "springiness" from the spokes causing a problem here ?
> Is the gear tooth minor diameter bigger than that 3 jaw ? Can you move directly to the chuck ?
> 
> Scott


Scott--It was springy. I could feel it during the cut. In fact, I held the outer side of the gear with my fingers while cutting to dampen some of the harmonic vibrations. It doesn't seem to have affected the quality of the teeth though.---Brian


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## bb218 (Oct 28, 2013)

I have been lurking in the background, now you got me wanting to make one of these.  I have never cut a gear I know one way they spec gear drawings is with diameter over pins, how did you set the depth you cut on your gear ?   Nice work by the way.   Mike


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2013)

bb218 said:


> I have been lurking in the background, now you got me wanting to make one of these. I have never cut a gear I know one way they spec gear drawings is with diameter over pins, how did you set the depth you cut on your gear ? Nice work by the way. Mike


There are gear cutting charts available on the internet that give all the information you need. You have to know what diametral pitch your cutters are and what angle, either 14.5 degrees or 20 degrees.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2013)

So what do you do for an encore, once you have made the largest gear you can make on your mill??---Well of course---Then you turn around and you make the smallest. Okay--Its not quite the smallest. The small one shown here is a 15 tooth. I can actually make one smaller, a 14 tooth. This one wasn't quite so heart stopping as the big one. None of that so many turns and so many holes stuff. It was just 6 full turns of the handle between each cut. I still use the divider plates though. I do want these gears to mesh when I get finished here!!! That small gear is integral with the shaft. The o.d. of the gear is 0.708", so I turned both ends of a 3/4" shaft down to .437 and turned the center to 0.708 and then cut the teeth right on the shaft. Strangely enough, the cold rolled steel cut easier than the bronze, but I didn't have any vibration to contend with like I did when I cut the big gear. The spokes made the cutting of the big gear very "springy" while I was cutting.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2013)

bb218--Maybe I didn't answer that very clearly. Once I get the cutter set at exactly the center height of the gear to be cut, I advance the table towards the cutter (not running) until I can just feel it pinch a piece of paper held between a cutter tooth and the side of the gear blank. Then I wind the table to the left until the blank is clear of the cutter and advance my mill table towards the cutter .089". That tooth depth is a constant for 24 diametral pitch gears with a 14.5 degree pressure angle. Once that .089" is set, I just wind the table back and forth, cutting full depth each time and advancing the rotary table by a predetermined angle each time I do it to cut the next tooth on the blank.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2013)

Tonight we will make an attempt at the countershaft mount. (That's the yellow piece) behind the 15 tooth gear.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2013)

I got this far and gave it up for the night. Bandsaw blade is dull as a hoe!!! I try to get a year out of the bi-metallic blades, but invariably I end up trying to cut something that's hard as the devils horn, and I don't know about it until I've knocked all the "sharp" off the teeth. ----And it generally happens about 2 weeks after I've bought the new blade. Blades aren't cheap!! I pay about $50 each at BusyBee, and that's imported stuff. Maybe this weekend I'll buy a blade.


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## bb218 (Oct 30, 2013)

> --Maybe I didn't answer that very clearly. Once I get the cutter set at exactly the center height of the gear to be cut, I advance the table towards the cutter (not running) until I can just feel it pinch a piece of paper held between a cutter tooth and the side of the gear blank. Then I wind the table to the left until the blank is clear of the cutter and advance my mill table towards the cutter .089". That tooth depth is a constant for 24 diametral pitch gears with a 14.5 degree pressure angle. Once that .089" is set, I just wind the table back and forth, cutting full depth each time and advancing the rotary table by a predetermined angle each time I do it to cut the next tooth on the blank.


__________________

Thanks that is how I assumed you would do it,   Mike


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 30, 2013)

There isn't too much I can say about this shot. The gears mesh the way I had hoped they would, and My Goodness --There's a lot of work in that new piece which supports the shaft with the small gear on it!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 30, 2013)

I found out today that there is a place in Brampton, Ontario that will make up a bimetal blade to order, and they are actually cheaper than BusyBee. They explained to me that their bimetal blades are a 14-10 tooth combination, with one inch of blade cut with 10 teeth per inch and 1" of blade cut with 14 teeth per inch, alternating over the full length of the blade. They claim longer blade life and easier cutting. The 93" blade in bimetal at BusyBee is $55.00 plus 13% tax. The blade from Tuff-tooth costs $50.06 including tax and shipping. I'll give a report on whether or not the blade works well.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 1, 2013)

My new blade came in today and I installed it on my bandsaw this evening. It is the same thickness (.036") as the blades from BusyBee and the same width, at 3/4". I cut a piece of 1" aluminum with it, and although its hard to be totally subjective about it, it seems to cut much faster than the old blade did.---of course like I said in my earlier post, the old blade was painfully dull. The price came in at a total of $51.65, which is $10.50 cheaper than BusyBee, delivered right to my mailbox. The name of the company in Brampton is R &D Bandsaws. The "Tufftooth" must be the name for their bimetal blades.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 2, 2013)

Now that my gear cutting is out of the way, it's time to put a pulley on that shaft that has the small gear carved on it. I am not sure of the torque requirements on this machine, so I have decided to use a flat belt drive on it, similar to the one on my sawmill. That way I don't have to be concerned with slippage like you get with an o-ring drive. Flat belts are a bear to wander off the pulley, so I will put a couple of 1/8" high flanges on the edges to keep the belt on. I went down to my metal supplier this morning and paid $10 for a 6" length of 5" x 1" aluminum, which will become the pulley over the next couple of weeks.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 2, 2013)

Well, I made a start on the pulley today. Short form goes like this.--Buy flatbar--Lay out circle with old drafting compass--Cut off everything that isn't part of the circle with bandsaw--Clamp plate between live tailstock center and chuck jaws and knock off most of the remaining corners--clamp in 3 jaw chuck, and away we go!!! Every time I hollow out the face on a pulley like this I seem to do it a different way. Most reliable way it seems is to make a series of plunge cuts at 90 degrees to the face with an old cut-off tool that I have ground to a long tapering point, close to the center hub. After enough plunge cuts side by side, I take it to the finished depth and wide enough to get a boring tool into what has now become a circular slot, and then use the boring tool to make successive passes towards the outer rim. Probably there are better ways to do this, but it works for me. Tomorrow if I have any ambition I'll flip it around in the chuck and do the other side.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 3, 2013)

As my friend Mr. Dundee  once said--"Now *this* is a pulley!!! I still have to put the six holes in it. They don't actually do anything, other than make it more visible that the pulley is really turning. These are not critical holes in any way, so I may just lay them out, pop an indent with the center punch, and take them out to my big old drill press in the garage to drill.--Still, rather a pig of a thing to hold onto while drilling 1" diameter holes thru the 1/4" web.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 3, 2013)

My holes are in, but Jeez, what a dance!! I ended up using toe clamps to clamp the pulley to the mill table, then for each hole it was--put the chuck in, with a homemade "pointer" and run the table around until the pointer was on center of my "punch" marks. Take the "pointer" out of the chuck and put a 3/8" drill in. Drill thru, remove the 3/8" drill and put in a half inch drill and drill thru. Remove chuck, put in 3/4" endmill and mill thru the web. Remove the 3/4" endmill and put a 7/8" endmill and mill thru the hub. Remove the 7/8" endmill and put a 1" endmill in and finally mill thru to end up with a 1" hole. Then repeat 5 times. My mill is not a tower of power!!! Anything much over 1/2" diameter and it blows the glass fuse. The glass fuses are $3 each and you can't buy them anywhere on Sunday. I do keep spares around, but try not to blow them if I can help it. Oh well, job is done, and the holes look good. Now I can move on to one of the more interesting parts.


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## Lawijt (Nov 3, 2013)

Amazing work Brian. What tool did you use too turn that pulley out?? If I try that I have a lot of shatter....


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 4, 2013)

Lawjit--I use this rather evil looking modified cut off tool.--The right hand end. I plunge straight into the face at 90 degrees as close to the hub as possible---that's where the surface speed of the rotating part is lowest. You can't plunge too deep, probably a maximum of .020". then back out and shift over the width of the blade and plunge again. Keep doing that until you have a groove .020" deep x about 3/8" wide. Then go back and repeat. Keep doing this until you have reached the full depth you want, or very close to it. Then use a conventional boring tool that will fit into this trench and taking .015 depth of cut, cut from the center "circular trench" you have created towards the outer diameter of what the counterbore will be. Once you have the counterbore fully formed, put a conventional tool into the tool holder and do a very light clean up pass to get rid of any ridges or chatter marks.


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## gus (Nov 5, 2013)

Brian Rupnow said:


> My new blade came in today and I installed it on my bandsaw this evening. It is the same thickness (.036") as the blades from BusyBee and the same width, at 3/4". I cut a piece of 1" aluminum with it, and although its hard to be totally subjective about it, it seems to cut much faster than the old blade did.---of course like I said in my earlier post, the old blade was painfully dull. The price came in at a total of $51.65, which is $10.50 cheaper than BusyBee, delivered right to my mailbox. The name of the company in Brampton is R &D Bandsaws. The "Tufftooth" must be the name for their bimetal blades.



Hi Brian, 
Makita sells two version for cutting steel. The non-bimetal blades have very short steel cutting life. Cut a Grade 5 fastener and the bandsaw will never cut straight again. This blades come in a box of three pcs. Paid the same price as yours for the bimetal.Still cutting on the scribed lines with easy hand guiding.
Will cut Gov Body for your H&M tomorrow. As for mitre gear cutting. My Impatience killed three gears, :hDe:


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 5, 2013)

I've been terribly busy with real work, so this machine has taken a back seat lately. The next thing I do is going to be interesting though. I have to have a "chute" filled with "marbles" so that when the pitching arm lowers to horizontal, a marble will load into it, under the influence of gravity. However, since there will be more than one "marble" in the chute, I have to have a spring operated "stop-gate" which prevents the other marbles from running out onto the floor when the pitching arm is up away from horizontal. I have some ideas how I will do this--the stop gate will be opened by the downward movement of the pitching arm, which is powered down as well as up.


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## bb218 (Nov 6, 2013)

Why don't you have only one marble in the chute so it drops an new one each cycle ?  As long as the marble gets down the chute before or at the same time as the arm gets down to load it.   Mike


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## Lawijt (Nov 7, 2013)

Hi Brian , thanks for the explanation & the pictures. I wil try too grind it also like you did.

Barry


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## crueby (Nov 7, 2013)

Being an adult can be much more fun (as long as you act like a kid still!). When I was young I had to pick up the marbles and put them in the top of the chute myself!  

Looking great - can't wait to see what marble marvels it does next.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 11, 2013)

On Friday, I finished a fairly large design contract, (Large for an old semi-retired poop like me, anyways.). That gave me this past weekend to play with my marble machine. I have reached the conclusion that there is as much work, or possibly even more to a machine like this than there is to a model engine. The trick with these things isn't making them work. That's pretty straightforward. But making them work CONSISTENTLY---That's where the devil is hiding!!! At any rate, I have futzed away at this thing until I am ready to make a short video of the operation. I still have no firm ideas for the return part of the equation, but that will come with time. So---Here is a video of the state we are at currently.


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## vascon2196 (Nov 11, 2013)

Very cool Brian...very cool.


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## stevehuckss396 (Nov 11, 2013)

How hard would it be to make the balls come out the top of the tube and go down one of those tracks made from a pair of wires and recycle back to the point of pick up.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 11, 2013)

Steve--That would be TOO easy. I kind of want the balls to do something rather mind boggling as they make their way back down to the load ramp. If you google "marble machine-youtube" you will see some absolutely amazing  devices that the marbles animate under the influence of gravity.---Brian


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## Cogsy (Nov 11, 2013)

Very cool machine so far. How about making the balls perform some work on the way back down? I'm thinking like a water-wheel but using marbles. My mind keeps picturing a little flag with the Rupnow logo popping up from somewhere as a ball passes too .


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 21, 2013)

I haven't done any more since I took the video on the 11-Nov, because I've been sick!!! Not sick enough to lay down and die, but not well enough to feel like doing anything. I am assuming its some kind of flue (at least hoping that's what it is.) I have laid around and read books until my eyeballs are fried, I have wandered in and out of my little machine shop two dozen times, but don't have enough gumption to machine anything. I have done a few of the Solidworks tutorials on sheet-metal, which is a rather confusing part of Solidworks which I really don't use often, and consequently I'm not very good at using it. I THINK I have a new design contract coming up next week, and hope sincerely that by next week I am back to my (usually) good health, because there is some travel involved. My good wife has just quit one job 25 miles away, and immediately got a new job teaching at a local college about 1 mile away, so she is disgustingly happy, while I am moaning about the place, wishing I would either get better soon, or die very quickly, with the emphasis on "Get better soon!!! This is just a post to let you all know that I am still on the planet, with hopes that I will be back on this project before Christmas.---Brian


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## wagnmkr (Nov 21, 2013)

Brian, I for one hope you get well soon. I have been the same as you for a couple of weeks ... not bad enough to want to pop my clogs, but no enthusiasm whatsoever. I don't even feel like looking at engine plans.

As far as your marble machine goes ... make the marbles perform some kind of work on the way down ... or ... install yet another elevator to increase the height ... and then make them do work on the way down. Powering a wheel with a huge mechanical advantage that would power the machine so it could be perpetual ... now I got myself thinking ... no sleep tonight!

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 21, 2013)

No Tom--I'm not into perpetual motion. Too much entropy around for that. Although I could go absolutely nuts with add ons, I am going to keep it simple. Right now the plan is to discharge into a round "saucer" with a depressed center with a hole in it, and MAYBE a brass handbell that gets rang on the way down. ---Brian


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## Path (Nov 22, 2013)

Brian,

Get well real soon ... but be sure that you okay to start back making chips. Too soon and you will be back wandering your shop. I know ... I've been there. 

That applies to you also Tom.!!

Pat H


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## AussieJimG (Nov 23, 2013)

I'll second Pat: I hope both of you recover quickly.

Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2013)

Today I'm feeling more like a living member of the human race, and I've uploaded my 2012 edition of Solidworks and finally gotten it sorted out, so Hey!!--Lets do a little more design. When my marble comes out the top of the Lexan tube, I want it to follow two paths, alternating between them each time. To do that, one needs to have a flip-flop gate. The flip flop gate is activated by the weight of the marble falling through it. I don't know exactly where those discharge tubes are going yet, but I do have a couple of small cast brass bells that I would like to incorporate!!!


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## vascon2196 (Nov 23, 2013)

Brian...the bell is a good idea..especially since you already have them. Our students made a marble machine several years ago that uses "The Easy Button" from Staples. At the end when the marble drops on top of the button it says "that was easy".

But it wasn't easy when they were building it!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2013)

Well, that's a days work!! Not very big pieces, but progress, none the less. I made the flip-flop gate, the shroud which bolts to one side of it to keep the marble from escaping, and the carrier plate which the flip-flop gate pivots on. That carrier plate also has two holes bored in it that are on a 5 degree angle down. The two pieces of 1" brass tube are the tubes which will be eventually used for marble tracks, but they have to be cut to length and have holes cut in for the marbles to enter from the side, out of the flip-flop gate. I changed the design from what I had modelled and posted in the last post, to simplify fabrication. Maybe tomorrow I will make the final piece which the carrier plate bolts to and is supported by the top of the Lexan tube.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2013)

This is a blowup of the revised flip flop gate. As each marble escapes from the top of the green fixture on top of the Lexan tube, it will flip the gate to the opposite side. I had to watch a lot of Youtube videos to figure out what was actually happening there. The marble won't roll out the wrong end of the 1" diameter tube because the tube is angled down 5 degrees from horizontal towards the end I want the marble to come out of.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 25, 2013)

"Amazing" is a word that often gets overused.--And yet--I find it rather amazing how this flip flop gate works!! In the pictures you can see the 3/4" hole cut in the brass tubes to let the marble into one tube or the other, depending on whether the gate is "flipped" or "flopped". I destroyed another big industrial bearing this morning to come up with another dozen "marbles" --which are actually 11/16" diameter bearing balls. This gave me enough that I could keep loading the balls into the "load ramp" as I hand cranked the big pulley. The balls rise up in the tube, and each time one discharges, it hits on whichever side of the pointed ramp is offset from center, depending on which way the gate is tipped. As it rolls down that side, the weight of the marble tips the gate in the opposite direction so that the next marble will hit the other side of the pointed ramp and tip the gate in the other direction. Perhaps its true "Small things amuse small minds"!!  That probably says something about me, but I'm having fun!!!


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## crueby (Nov 25, 2013)

I love the flip-flop gate. Put in enough of them, and you can build a computer! The worlds heaviest, loudest computer.... but the most fun to watch.   

Any ideas on what the rest of it is going to do, or is it growing on its own? All sorts of things it could do - play music, operate catapults, turn on your other engines, chase the cat....


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 25, 2013)

Crueby--I salute your understanding of these machines!!! Right now, its kind of growing on its own. I do have two small bronze handbells that have different tones that may find their way into the mix.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2013)

I had to machine a reducer shim to install in the very top of the fitting that discharges the marble out the spout to the flip flop gate. Since the i.d. of the Lexan tube was 3/4". I step bored that top piece 1" to fit over the tube and 3/4" to line up with the inside of the tube. This worked fine but---the marbles are only 11/16" diameter. the very top marble would roll towards the back side of the vertical hole and stay there, going out backwards over the open top instead of rolling foreword out the spout. The brass shim which is .080 thick at the widest part tapering to 0" at the end of each arm does the trick quite nicely and forces the topmost marble foreword so that it rolls out the spout as intended. The brass shim is Loctited in place.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2013)

So after a full day of reconfiguring the gate which releases marbles one at a time to the pitching arm, we are far enough along to make a video showing the flip-flop gate in operation. I just spied a nice concave wooden salad bowl upstairs in the kitchen, but when I asked my wife if I could have it to add to the marble machine, my wife was quite indignant, and said that she has had that wooden salad bowl longer than she has me!!! I guess maybe I'll go have a look at Walmart----


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## gus (Nov 26, 2013)

Hi Brian,

Great machine to built but Gus has three engines to finish up. Plus the Nemett-Lynx to begin in March 2014.
Will have to KIV the marble machine.:wall:

Weather now cooler with some rainfall.Fishing been good. Trust weather at your end OK.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2013)

Gus--Now we have about 3" of snow. A bit early, but not unreasonably so. I wouldn't really suggest that anyone build a marble machine. I'm doing it because I am tired of building engines, and I wanted something a bit challenging. It certainly is DIFFERENT, and  its a bit of fun. I wish I could have come up with something else to build a scale model of that is more based on a real machine, but since I couldn't think of anything, the marble machine is going ahead. I don't feel under any great pressure to finish it like I do when I build an engine. Thanks for having a look.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 28, 2013)

I convinced my good wife that she should buy a new set of wooden salad bowls. This means that I get one of the four existing ones to add to my crazy machine. I sorted through my odd bits of 2" round aluminum, and found that by joining 3 of them together I can generate a heavy walled tube to fit under the wooden bowl. A piece of 1/4" aluminum plate will make a bell support for one of my bronze handbells, and a bit of 1/8" steel and some .094 dia. wire can be combined to make a bell clapper. Now the deal is, ---the ball rolls out the spout on one side of the flip flop gate, picks up some velocity from the 5 degree gradient, and discharges into the wooden bowl at one side, where it rolls in ever diminishing circles until, like the famed hoo-hoo bird it disappears up its own---no no--wait.--I mean until it falls down the hole thru the center of the bowl and down through the 3/4" hole drilled through the center of the 2" diameter aluminum. On the way down, the ball bearing strikes the clapper, causing it to rotate on its axle and ring the bell. The ball bearing then discharges from the bottom of the tube, lands in a ball track (which I have yet to make) and finds it's way back to the load ramp for the pitching arm.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 1, 2013)

I've got the bowl, I've mounted the bell---now all I need is a slot in the pedestal the bowl is setting on and to fabricate a clapper. This is very much "make it up as I go along", but even so I like to model this stuff first. It saves me a lot of remaking parts and beating my head on the wall!!!


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## gus (Dec 2, 2013)

Good idea. Will sound like the Jackpot Machines ringing at Las Vegas!!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 2, 2013)

Nice thought Gus!!!


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## Swifty (Dec 10, 2013)

How is it progressing Brian, haven't had any new posts for a few days. Hope that your OK, or are you out there shovelling snow all the time?

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 10, 2013)

Swifty, I've been sick. I picked up some kind of nasty virus in early November, and it won't let go of me. I haven't been sick enough to lay down and die, but not felt well enough to play machinist. Hopefully, I will get back into the swing of things soon. Thanks for asking .----Brian


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## Path (Dec 10, 2013)

Brian,

Sorry to hear that you are sick.
Get well soon ... I always look forward to your postings.

Happy Holidays 


Pat H


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## Swifty (Dec 10, 2013)

Get well soon Brian, I look forward to your postings. I had a bad cold that lasted a couple of weeks before the main symptoms wore off, now 3 weeks further on I still have a cough that I can't quite shake.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2013)

I'm finding it difficult to maintain interest in this project. Last week I was diagnosed with pneumonia and put on a course of antibiotics. I don't feel sick enough to lay down and die, but I don't feel well enough to be playing in my machine shop either. I have been looking with a great deal of interest at the opposed piston engine built and posted about by Gail from New Mexico over on "Model Engine Maker".  It is an outstanding design, and it appeals to me. I might build a "Rupnow" version of that engine in the coming year, and yet I don't want to get involved in "Model Engine Plagiarism" either. I don't have any "real" design work for paying customers at the moment, so I've been spending my days reading paperbacks and trolling the internet.--Living like this is getting old, rapidly, but until I feel better I don't have that many options.---Brian


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## AussieJimG (Dec 16, 2013)

It's cold and you are sick and the world sucks. But the cold will go and all over the world people like me have fingers crossed that you will soon be feeling better.

So get well soon and have a good Xmas.

Jim


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## Path (Dec 16, 2013)

Take care ... hope to see you on line soon. Have a great Holiday .

By the way ...* I am working* on your engine.
Just have a lot of interruptions and few other issues. 


Pat H


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2013)

Thanks AusieJimG and Path and Swifty. I am looking forward to feeling like making chips again. It is very unusual for me to be idle for so long.---Brian


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## krankie frankie (Dec 16, 2013)

Take a few days off, and I hope you are feeling better soon. Happy holidays to you and all your family.

krankie frankie


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## Cogsy (Dec 16, 2013)

Hope you get better soon Brian. Being sick is no fun at all and I sympathise with being bored as well. Had 5 days laid up with a drip in my arm recently, broken jaw, split finger and a few other issues (all separate complaints at different times over the last few months). Once you're over the initial pain, boredom is the worst thing, and the TV gets old real quick.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 17, 2013)

Jeez Cogsy--Sounds like you've been in a brawl at the local bar!!! No wonder you haven't been doing a lot of machining!!!---Brian


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