# New type of tool  holder.



## wm460 (Jan 25, 2010)

Some one one a penturning forum gave me this link.

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/

I was wondering if these are any good?
Has any one used these/
What was the verdict.

Thanks Mark.


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## bentprop (Jan 25, 2010)

It's not actually a new idea,but those who have used one seem to be quite happy with it.
It would be relatively simple to make your own,in fact,I believe someone on this forum did do so.


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## JimM (Jan 25, 2010)

There was a thread on these toolholders here

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=7578.0

HTH

Jim


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## New_Guy (Jan 25, 2010)

that guy had a great site i was always skeptical about those holders but after looking at it cutting i think ill have to get one myself 

i wonder if the maker is one this site or on U-Bute ???


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## phlegmatic (Jan 26, 2010)

Good thing about them is that they are indexable. If one made a tool to set it at the same height every time, one could take it out ot the holder and sharpen it, then get it back exactly right each time! Ive got to get one! 

Anyone tried them on Sherline or other compacts? Seems one can reach better with this if mounted upsidedown in the compound tool rest? Ive been struggling with a way to use the compound for threading with a 29° feed? Tolbits need to be ground to very odd shapes. If this has the right bend it would solve my prob!


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## Donrecardo (Jan 26, 2010)

I had one of these tool holders for xmas from SHMBO

Its the best present she ever bought me . I wouldnt be without it now.

I always used indexable tools with replaceable tips as I never learned how to sharpen HSS
and I could never get a really fine cut with the indexable tips . Now using the little shapening jig
that came with the tool I can get consistant , repeatable sharp edges in seconds . and fine cuts are a breeze.
You can even screw cut with them 

Don


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## IanN (Jan 29, 2010)

Hi,

This method of tool holding is a well established engineering practice. Usually referred to as a "tangential tool holder" the idea has been around for many years. Renaming the concept as the "diamond tool holder" is just some clever marketing on the part of the company concerned who are trying to imply that it is a revolutionary new idea that they have come up with (note the use of the term "developed" rather than "designed" and the fact that it is not possible to patent the concept).

Unfortunately, as the company avoids using the term "tangential tool holder" much of the information about the technique is not noticed by people interested in the idea - do a search for lathe tools and processes using the term "tangential tool" and you will find much more information. A lot of the sites found may be of limited use to the home user (but still interesting) as much of the tooling for CNC and commercial thread chasers use this technique.

Ian.


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## Richard1 (Jan 29, 2010)

I bought one of these from the original manufacturer Des Burke about 1994 or just a bit later. It cost significantly less than Eccentric Engineering are charging and is still in daily use mostly cutting 316 stainless but has been used on everything including 01, M3, nylon, lucite, brass, bronze, copper, mild steel, aluminium, titanium and various metals unknown. The only problem I had with mine was that the tool post had to be turned 6 degrees towards the headstock to get the right cutting angles. This was no problem for Des as he had a tool post that indexed in 6 degree steps but it annoyed me using it on a Dickinson Tool holder. It may have been changed sometime in the last 15 years or so. This eventually got so annoying to me that i welded a 6 degree wedge to the side of the tool shank to wedge it sidewards in the tool holder and returned the quick change tool post to right angles to the bed. I think I have a drawing of Des's tool post somewhere if anyone is interested.


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## Paolo (Jan 29, 2010)

Hi Richard...
I did my own using pictures as a refer...but I'm curious to have a drawing of yours..
Thanks
Best regrads
Paolo


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## CrewCab (Jan 29, 2010)

I know a few of the guys have successfully made these, one link is above, Cedge also did a good write up on one if I recall ......... 

Ahhhhhhhhhhh ........ *Here it is*

Have a read guys, it's interesting 8)

CC


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## chucketn (Jan 30, 2010)

How about one of the folks that have made one doing a step by step for noobs like me? I'd love to make one for my 7x for the standard tool holder. or even a block/Norman style holder. Don't have a QCTP. I've read this whole thread, Gagetbuilders description, seen Paterson's interpretation, etc. I just got my X2 HF mill and have no idea how to set up for making the tool holder or the grinding fixture. If I was wealthy, I'd buy it, but $80-$100 for one tool is too rich for my blood.
Bogs, I know you're lurking somewhere, how 'bout it. You have done some really great "How to's".

Chuck in E. TN


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## New_Guy (Jan 31, 2010)

mate setting angles is dead easy once your shown how... i second the idea of a tutorial if anyone is inspired to have a go at making one of these tools a thread would be most appreciated


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## Richard1 (Jan 31, 2010)

Hi Paolo,

I'm measuring mine slowly and will try to draw it up for you. Seems to have some odd angles in it but as I just got a sine bar yesterday it will be a good first job for it. I am not the worlds greatest draftsman so it will take time. If I can work out how to make it I am intending to make a mirror image one for cutting towards the tailstock


Richard


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## crankshafter (Jan 31, 2010)

Hi guys.
Here is a couple of links to tangential toolholders.
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=29818
http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/ToolHolders.html.
More to find if google.
CS


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## Paulsv (Jan 31, 2010)

If you go to that Model Engineer website (http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=29818) and click on "Extra" in the menu line at the top, you can view a sample issue of the Model Engineer Workshop magazine, which happens to be issue 156, which has, on page 12, drawings for a tangential toolholder and tool grinding jig, and some comments on making one. Not the greatest design, especially of the grinding jig, but it should give plenty of ideas.


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## Paolo (Jan 31, 2010)

Hi Richard..Thanks in advance... 
Best regards
Paolo


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## wm460 (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks for your answers every one, I would love to make one but as I haven't got any tooling yet guess I will buy one.


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## Omnimill (Feb 17, 2010)

I've not tried it yet with the toolholder I made (using the MEW plans) but you can use round HSS for finishing cuts as well apparently.

Vic.


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## Twmaster (Feb 18, 2010)

Kinda funny. The price with shipping from the shop in OZ to the US is A$135 (~US$120) the dealer in the states charges US$140 plus shipping.

This looks interesting. I've heard others that have this rave about the thing.


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## Omnimill (Feb 19, 2010)

I've not used mine too much yet so for what it's worth :-\ This type of tool is quite interesting and seems to work well enough but I'm not sure thats enough to get one unless you have trouble grinding conventional tools. For newbies it's great as sharpening with a jig is a breeze and the cost of HSS for it is low - I chose 3/16" HSS but some even use 1/8". Another downside is that they aren't (I'm told) any good for intermittent cuts as the lock screw can't prevent the cutter being "hammered" down during cutting. I'm glad I made one and will no doubt use it, but not sure the commercial ones are being sold at a good enough price. Oh, one other benefit if you have a four way toolpost rather than a QR, it's quick and easy to set the centre (cutting) height.

Vic.


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## Twmaster (Feb 19, 2010)

The video for the diamond brand tool shows it doing an intermittent cut. Of course I have no idea how well that holds up to the hammering. 

I'm going to make one of these once I get my workshop set up after my move.


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## Omnimill (Feb 19, 2010)

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> The video for the diamond brand tool shows it doing an intermittent cut. Of course I have no idea how well that holds up to the hammering.
> 
> I'm going to make one of these once I get my workshop set up after my move.



Oh, well it may be that the Diamond brand tool has better clamping? I've not tried an intermittent cut with mine but would be (pleasantly) surprised if it did hold up! 

Vic.


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## GWRdriver (Feb 19, 2010)

Twmaster  said:
			
		

> Kinda funny. The price with shipping from the shop in OZ to the US is . . .US$120, the dealer in the states charges US$140 plus shipping.


There are several possible scenarios one needs to consider . . . . The US dealer may need to charge that much in order to recoup losses from dealing with US buyers who ordered from Oz but when something goes wrong they go straight to the US "dealer" for satisfaction. . . . The US dealer may not be getting a discount - not probable, but certainly possible, and their markup looks to be about 15%. If you have ever imported goods for resale you would know that 15% won't come close to covering the basic costs of doing business. Another way to look at it is from the convenience perspective, if you're making money with your toolholder and you need another one or two (or parts) you can get it in a couple of days rather than 3-5 weeks (or more.) Then of course there is the other possibility . . . the US dealer and the mfg have entered into an international trade conspiracy for the sole purpose of picking the pockets of the poor US home shop machinist. :

I have one of these toolholders but I can't make full use of it due to the size of my compound and the location of the lantern toolpost. The diamond tool shank isn't quite long enough to allow me to locate put bit where it needs to be for anything near the chuck face. Extending the shank introduces too much overhang so I have to use it in an indexing toolpost which I don't really prefer. Otherwise, when I've been able to use it, it does just fine.

PS - Count yourselves lucky, when I got mine . . . as a part of a barter with a chum in Oz, there was only one source option. The mfg would absolutely not ship the product to individuals in the USA, you were required to order from their US dealer.


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## Twmaster (Feb 19, 2010)

I vote conspiracy!


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