# Piston or Wedge QCTP??



## lazylathe (Oct 27, 2011)

Hi All,

Shopping around for an AXA QCTP for the South Bend.
There are two options here, either the Piston type or the Wedge type.

What are the advantages of one over the other?
I have a wedge one on my Myford and it works quite well.
Never seen or used the piston type so i am a bit in the dark on this one.

Any help and ifo appreciated!

Andrew


----------



## kvom (Oct 27, 2011)

http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=89634


----------



## steamer (Oct 27, 2011)

A piston type has a eccentric driven ram that comes out axially behind the tool holder to lock the holder to the dovetail.  Because there is nothing to bias the holder axially, it does not repeat real well...but if your not doing alot of repeatitive work, it won't matter much.  I personally think they are not as stiff as a wedge.

A wedge tool post has a wedge that travels in a vertical direction within the rear dovetail and in so doing so eliminates the space between the post and the holder. Because it pulls the holder in on the front dovetail which is fixed to the post, they repeat very well.  Alorus advertizes better than .0002" repeatability at the end of a long boring bar....

I have a AXA wedge post of Asian decent on my 12" Logan Powermatic.  I have buried a 5/8" tool 3/8" DOC , .005" /rev and taken a turning cut with a .25" radius tool at 300 rpm with a piece of 12L14 mounted in a 10" 4 jaw chuck and backed up by a tailstock center....just because I could.  ...like buttah!

The post held up very well.....my vote is to save your sheckels and get the wedge post.....worth it.

Just my opinion...worth exactly what you paid for it.....


Dave


----------



## lazylathe (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks guys!! ;D

Wedge it is then!!! ;D

Mine will also hail from the far east!

Andrew


----------



## doc1955 (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm partial to this one. It was one of my first projects in my home shop.


----------



## steamer (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes! a copy of the Hardinge tool post!

I made one too for my Atlas back when...but it was too small for the Logan so when I sold the Atlas it went with it.

Wish I still had it though for the Waltham.......






Dave


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 27, 2011)

Dave I beleive I have a motor tightener for this lathe if you can use it is yours .Also think I have a collect closer for it too. Dale


----------



## steamer (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks anyway Dale...but the old girl is long gone...sold it about 6 years ago now....

Dave


----------



## steamer (Oct 27, 2011)

Is the collet closer for a 3C collet?

...wonding if it would fit on a SB 9"

Dave


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 28, 2011)

I am not sure I will try to fined it and see.I'll let you know .Dale


----------



## lazylathe (Nov 1, 2011)

I see Enco has Phase 2 QCTP on sale!!
Regular price 4332.98 on sale for $185.95!

This is a 6 piece set.
Does it sound like a good deal?

Or would a chinese one do the job just as well?

Andrew


----------



## GOOFY063 (Nov 1, 2011)

it took a few months but i picked up a axa wedge type, phase II with holders(6 piece +1 aloris) off ebay for less than a $100.


----------



## kvom (Nov 1, 2011)

AFAIK Phase II products are chinese. My rotab is a phase II and it's pretty good, but a drill chuck arbor of theirs was crappy. It's hard to beat Aloris if you can afford it. My toolpost is a AXA knockoff piston model and works OK. However, the chinese tool holders I got with it are poor quality/fit. I've since replaced them with a mixture of Aloris and Yausa holders.


----------



## pete (Nov 1, 2011)

Andrew,
A bit of advice? 
What you buy today may not end up all that useful later on. If you have full intensions of doing machining as a hobby long term, Then it's a real good idea to preplan for that. Most people end up after a certain ammount of time adding DROs to their equipment. If you buy a decent accurate DRO, You'll want tooling that's repetable when doing parts. Anything you can add to ensure that repetabilty is a good idea. I'd buy the wedge system and Phase 2 for the minimum quality. Maybe it's a fairly unknown technique with DROs and hobby machining? But the ability to index your tooling projection so that each tool has exactly the same zero depth is really useful. Simplified? All tools and quick change tool holders would machine a shaft to the exact or as close as possible to the same diameter according to the same DRO readings. That's certainly not possible for every lathe tool. But when it is, It's far faster to set up what tooling you can that's pre set to a zero condition, For as and when your building multiple parts to the same dimensions. Your DRO would have to be fairly high quality and repetable accuracy to use that technique. But a decent accurate two axis lathe DRO really isn't all that expensive. Just one more opinion and your thoughts may vary.

Obviously presetting your tools can be done with normal accurate lathe dials and a good QCTP system too. Real high end DROs like Newalls come with a tool numbering system. This saves pre setting your tools, But the projection still needs to be measured and verified under cutting conditions then minor adjustments get made till the tool agrees with the DRO.

Pete


----------



## dalem9 (Nov 1, 2011)

Andrew I have a phase 11 And I love it .So nice to be able to change things quickly .Dale


----------



## Swede (Nov 6, 2011)

I like the notion of a used Aloris, Dorian, or Yuasa wedge tool post, and the cheaper individual tool holders purchased new from Shars or similar. The $15 U.S. Chinese holders work fine, and the more you have, the merrier. One thing that can be done to improve them is to replace the low-quality (and very soft) set screws in them with higher quality fasteners.


----------



## Florian (Nov 6, 2011)

lazylathe  said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> Shopping around for an AXA QCTP for the South Bend.
> There are two options here, either the Piston type or the Wedge type.
> Andrew



Hey Andrew

What about a *Multifix-Toolpost*? 
I really like them (have ordered one for my Schaublin) because you can rotate the tool holder by 9° without ever loosening the main body. 

There are different qualities with those Multifix QCTP's (Chinese stuff and also German Products) but they all work quite well. 

Cheers Florian


----------

