# Trivet Engine?



## Tony Bird (Nov 5, 2015)

Hi,

Yesterday I lost a filling; today I went to the dentist.  To get to the dentist from the car park I have to pass a charity shop; being a little ahead of time I went in and bought a very rare four legged trivet.  I assume the 'tri' bit means three? 
I spent the afternoon in the shed.  I had already bought a pair of candle sticks from another charity shop while away on holiday a few weeks ago.  I often buy them as their stems and bases can come in handy for the ornamental part of models.  So I decided to see if I could make anything of the trivet and candle sticks.

Trivet as bought.





The candle sticks.





The feet of the trivet weren't flat.





So the legs were heated and bent so their feet were flat.








The candle sticks were taken apart.





The candle sticks were turned into columns and bolted to the trivet to support an axle.





This is the general idea.








The flywheel came from another charity shop purchase of a model cannon.  I have no other bits yet but perhaps other visits to charity shops will provide them?

Regards Tony.


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## IceFyre13th (Nov 5, 2015)

This is going to be very cool!!!


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## Tony Bird (Nov 9, 2015)

Hi,

I found some photographs of where the flywheel came from.  Another charity shop purchase.

The model cannon as bought; brass barrel the rest cast iron.





Alas one of the cast iron wheels was chilled so I ended up with only one usable wheel which I made into a flywheel by removing every other spoke.





The cannon ended up with plastic wheels.





I think I will make some bearings for the top of the columns.  Then perhaps some more bits from a charity shop.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Nov 9, 2015)

Hi,

Today I made some bearings for the top of the columns.








A couple of oil cups can be made and that's it until something to make an engine from crops up.

Regards Tony.


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## 10K Pete (Nov 10, 2015)

Some people see 'stuff'. Tony sees engines!! I love it!!

:idea::idea:

Pete


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## Tony Bird (Nov 13, 2015)

Hi,

I had a little time before I start on a new project so I decided to get as far as I can with the model.  The bearing columns have been pined to locate them and oil cups have been made and fitted.








Some time in the foreseeable future other parts to complete the engine will be found.

Regards Tony.


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## modeng2000 (Nov 14, 2015)

Tony's creations remind me of Roland Emmett's machines.
http://millenniumpointblog.org.uk/explore-rowland-emmetts-wonderful-world/

John


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## Tony Bird (Nov 21, 2015)

Hi,

I have yet to find any further bits to add to the Trivet engine.  However I did come across a piece of a bronze bearing which could be used to add a little mass to the flywheel.

Unfortunately it was just too big!





So some sums were done and a piece was cut out of the ring.





The ring was annealed and bent inwards.





After cleaning the joint it was hard soldered together.





The now complete ring was then machined.








A step to located the flywheel in the ring was turned.





With the ring Loctited to the flywheel it was trued.





As the heavier flywheel looks on the Trivet.





I think I might reduce the thickness of the new rim but only after I see how the rest turns out.

Regards Tony.


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## toolznthings (Nov 21, 2015)

Some clever thinking and work ! Looks neat.

Brian


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## Tony Bird (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi,

Today I found an old brass pipe fitting, which I have started to make into some pulleys; one of which will be used on the trivet engine.

The brass pipe fitting.





Partially machined and as can be seen the bore isn't very concentric.





Ready for parting off with a step machined for the boss.





The section of pipe made three pulley rims a test piece to see how thick they would turn out and some swarf.





At the end of play today I had cut out a boss with piercing saw.





To feel I had done something to the engine itself I painted the flywheel.





Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Nov 23, 2015)

Hi,

Today I thought I would finish the pulley and that would be it as far as the engine went with the bits that I had.  I have mentioned that one the types of engine that the model might end up like was a Half Beam Engine.  I have never made an engine of that configuration so it would be a little more interesting to make.   For this I will need something to make the beam out of as well as something to support it.  Well I found the support; legs from another trivet!

Donor trivet. 





It took a lot of heat to get the solder to melt that held the legs onto the top.





I think the legs were castings which had then been hand turned between centres to clean them up; possibly somewhere like India.





The shortest of the legs was turned first and had holes drilled then tapped in both ends.  The other legs were turned to the same length as the first. Then cleaned up along their length.









The base for the bearings for the end of the beam was cut out of the back door of a clock.








This is how the engine looks at this moment with the columns and bearing base fitted along with the finished pulley.











I am fairly sure that I have no other bits in stock that will allow me to do further work on this model.  We have a railway exhibition at the NEC in the Midlands this coming weekend so I should get on with preparing the layout for it.  I doubt I will find anything there that will allow me to do any work on the model in the near future.

Regards Tony.


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## Twizseven (Nov 23, 2015)

Tony,

I've got to admit I do admire the way you can just develop an engine in your head from relatively random pieces of metal.  Do you actually plan what it will look like, or just make a component from whatever you have just found.

Following with great interest.

Colin


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## Tony Bird (Nov 24, 2015)

Hi Colin,

*Do you actually plan what it will look like, or just make a component from whatever you have just found.*

I think mostly I see some thing like say a trivet and think it could be used as the bed plate of a model engine that might have been made in the late 1800's.  It would be fairly easy to design and make the flywheel cylinders etcetera from scratch but it is a bit more fun trying to find and use bits that had a previous life.  I really don't know how it will turn out other than it is likely to be like a half beam engine.  To that end I will have to do a drawing to work out height and length of the beam which will give me an idea of what stroke I could use.  So now I have to find some more possible components which might make it a totally different engine to what I am thinking of at the moment.

I was recently told:  Tony. 'You find solutions and then invent problems for them'.  My wife agreed and I didn't understand!

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi,

I have found some material to make the beam from and I have decided to copy the main bearing stands that were made from candlesticks for the beam support.  I did find another candle stick that I could use but I think it will look better if the bearing stands look the same.

Photographs so far of the beam being made.











Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 2, 2015)

Hi,

Today I made the support for the end of the beam.  It is a bit shorter than the main bearing support but of a similar style. 

First some hexagonal brass was turned to the correct height and shoulders turned on it to the finished diameter of the supports top and bottom.  A threaded plug centre was fitted into the threaded hole made for the bearing.  A nut was used as a holding point on the other end of the support which has a 0 BA thread.





The support was roughed out using a fixed tool.





The compound tool holder was removed from the saddle and a 'T' rest fitted.





A hand graver was then used to finish the support.





The work piece was turned around to finish its base.





The finished support with its bearing fitted.





The support with beam fitted to the engine.








SWBO hasn't missed the cutlery yet.

Regards Tony.


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## 10K Pete (Dec 2, 2015)

Now Tony, you didnt' make that beam from knife handles did you?

Naughty, naughty.*knuppel2*

Pete


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## Tony Bird (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi Pete,

*Now Tony, you didn't' make that beam from knife handles did you?*

Yes!  The idea did come from the cutlery draw but the knifes came from a charity shop at 20p each which has added substantially to the cost of the engine with now stands at £9.38 paid in charity shops. 

Oddly the knives purchased are know as bead edge design which is similar to the ones we do use.

Regards Tony.


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## 10K Pete (Dec 3, 2015)

Dang, that's getting to be a very expensive engine!

Rof}

Pete


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## Tony Bird (Dec 4, 2015)

Hi,

Other than making the big and small ends for the connecting rod and piston rod I can do little more until material for the cylinder arrives.  However I have made the first drawing for the engine to work out the connecting rod length and the stroke when the type of cylinder is decided on.  I have cleaned the trivet up a bit using citric acid to get rid of the staining caused by annealing the legs to get the trivet to stand flat.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 4, 2015)

Hi,

Today I made the big ends and their oil pots.










Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 10, 2015)

Hi,

I haven't had time to go out and visit charity shops for something to make a cylinder from.  It is more likely that I will come across something suitable when I am not looking for it.

I thought the model would look more balanced if it had a pulley on both sides of it so I used the part of the pipe joint that had been turned to check the thickness the joint could be made to make one.

Another clock case door was sacrificed.





















Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Dec 16, 2015)

Tony,
Again you amaze me - such imagination.  I just can't wait to see the final results.  I am sure they will be quite audacious!  Thanks for sharing, I will be following.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 16, 2015)

Hi,

I haven't so far found anything to make a cylinder from I think it is unlikely this side of Christmas.  However while it town I visited a second hand/antique shop and spent £2 on a brass castor.





The castor was taken apart and cleaned up. The wheel is 40 mm in diameter and will make a pulley with very little effort and I am sure the clevis will come in useful to.





The hole in the wheel has been trued and made 3/16" in diameter and a grub screw fitted.





There is no use for either part at the moment so it has only been painted with etching primer.

Regards Tony.


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## Foozer (Dec 16, 2015)

Sticking my chin out to get a tap - Just can't get the eye from focusing upon the beam of first impression - The utilitarian shape seems out of place. All the other pieces flow like music and then it's that flat note of the beam . . .


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## Tony Bird (Dec 17, 2015)

Hi,

*Sticking my chin out to get a tap - Just can't get the eye from focusing upon the beam of first impression - The utilitarian shape seems out of place. All the other pieces flow like music and then it's that flat note of the beam . . .*

Yes it would be good to find a serpentine piece of brass to replace the pair of knives as the beam, which I think/hope will look better painted green.  Using the knives allows me to position the connect rod and piston rod.  Maybe something will turn up but finding something to make a cylinder from would be nice to.

Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Dec 17, 2015)

Methinks I need to check out more thrift shops here in USA!  Yet another cool find Tony I know you will find a use for it.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 17, 2015)

Hi,

Still no luck with anything to make a cylinder out of.  I took SWMBO into town to get the bus to London to visit the latest granddaughter for a few days.  On my way home I visited a couple of charity shops and might have found the connecting rod at a cost of £0.25 I can just afford not to use it. 

I think it is a candle snuffer.





Taken apart.





Fitted; it is too long but could easily be shortened.





Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 18, 2015)

Hi,

The candle snuffer handle has been used for a connecting rod.  It looks a bit heavy; but is screwed in place so can easily be replaced if something better comes along.  Having a connecting rod allows a big end to be made.

Drawing? And a roughed out piece of rectangular brass block.





Drilling securing screws in the block.





Splinting block using a parting tool.





Both parts of big end screwed together and crank centre centre drilled.





Big end drilled, reamed and shouldered.





Centre for connecting rod.





Hole drilled and tapped for connecting rod and a shoulder turned.





Finished big end.





Big end on axle.





Connecting rod fitted.








Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Dec 19, 2015)

Tony.
Fascinating!  One question why did you use parting tool to split the big end block?  Wouldn't a saw have worked better?  Thanks for sharing.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 19, 2015)

Hi David,

The block was already set up in the lathe so it was split by parting.  It could had been sawn but in either case the faces would need machining so they mated.

I worked on making a crank shaft today.  As most of the model is brass I decided to make the crank webs from brass.

First the section of the axle to be removed was partially cut through.





Then a piece of brass that has had a previous use was cut into make the crank webs.





The pieces cut were machined to the same size using a shellac chuck.








The machined pieces were drilled while together for the axle and crank pin. then Loctited and pined to them to make the crank shaft.





Shoulders were turned on the crank webs.





Using the previously sawn slots part of the axle was removed.








The model except for the beam which has been painted was assembled.








Assuming the paint on the beam dries hard enough overnight I can check if everything still lines up tomorrow.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 20, 2015)

Hi,

Today the engine was assembled as far as it has progressed; before the now painted beam was fitted the connecting rod was finished by making and fitting a oil pot to the big end.





Because the beam has no counter balance as a conventional beam engine does the flywheel was lightened by drilling holes in line with the crank throw to make it a bit more in balance..





The big end and crank.





As the assembled engine looks.










I think the paint has improved the look of the beam.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Dec 20, 2015)

Hi,

A short video of the engine so far being turned over by hand.

https://youtu.be/X3F5T10Ns68


Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Dec 20, 2015)

Tony,
You make it look so easy!  I am glued to the computer screen waiting for the next episode!  The little video also shows the potential of this creation.  
Thanks for sharing, David


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## Tony Bird (Dec 24, 2015)

Hi,

As yet nothing has been found to make a cylinder out of and nothing is likely to come up until the New Year.  The beam its connecting rod and the crank throw are quite heavy and I was wondering how this would effect the engine's performance especially at low speed.  So I decided to try and balance out these weights by reducing the weight on one side of the flywheel and adding weight to the other.  First more holes were drilled in the rim of the flywheel and a counter balance to the other.





The counter balance is removable but will be painted if it is found necessary.

The brass sides were cut from the remaining clock case back





And to add weight a piece of lead was put between the spokes.





The engines assembled.





Have a Great Christmas and a Healthy New Year.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Jan 3, 2016)

Hi,

I did a bit of work on the Trivet engine today making the eccentric and a cylinder support.  I hope the photographs show how they were made.  Starting with the eccentric sheath made from hex brass.

















The cylinder support is made from some brass'T' section with an extra piece of brass hard soldered to the vertical part.





The eccentric itself  is made from some recycled steel; a half shaft I think.











As the engine looks to date.








Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Jan 4, 2016)

Tony,
It is slowly getting there.  I hope you find that cylinder material soon!
Once again thanks for the machining instruction.  I had never thought of making the eccentric with hex material.
DW


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## Tony Bird (Jan 4, 2016)

Hi David,

*I had never thought of making the eccentric with hex material.
*

I often use hexagonal brass rod to make eccentrics but up until now after drilling any holes required I have always turned them round.  I just thought the eccentric would look a little different being left hexagonal.

I have now gone as far as I can without starting on the cylinder.  The piston stroke is 50 mm so I will need something about 65/70 mm to make a cylinder.  But if nothing turns up I will fabricate a cylinder.  Today I made an oscillating valve to fit to the cylinder support.  This required a bit of a drawing, so having found the pencil case, I came up with the following.





The valve has an minimum operating angle of 34 degrees, which the eccentric should manage OK.

I had intended to use a 4 oz. brass weight to make the valve.





Then a bit of a disaster the brass was only a case it was lead filled!  You would never have guessed just looking at it.





Found another piece of new brass and made the valve.  The steam slots  were milled using a rotary table.  The cylinder support has been drilled with steam passageways.





This is as far as I can get without a cylinder.





I suspect fabrication will be the way to go, I cannot even think of something that could be used to make a cylinder from, it really needs to be brass.

Regards Tony.


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## ShopShoe (Jan 5, 2016)

Tony,

Perhaps an old table lamp or light fixture. I got some good solid brass from a 1930-era desk lamp that was mostly brass, but painted over.

Or perhaps brass or bronze from an old faucet or valve.

--ShopShoe


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## Tony Bird (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi ShopShoe,

Many thanks for the ideas but I have done a few sketches of the overall size of a cylinder that could be used on the Trivet engine, having done some sums the largest realistic bore can only be 12 mm ( 1/2") the stroke of 50 mm is already set.  So the engine will be 50 mm stroke with a 12 mm bore (2"x 1/2").  I have decided to go along the fabricated cylinder route.  There are a couple of reasons one I don't think that it is likely that something 65/70 mm long suitable for a cylinder will be found in the near future and in a few weeks we take our annual Winter break and when we return I have several projects for other people to do.

So this morning while cogitating about the cylinder I made the fulcrum pin/bearing for the oscillating valve.  It uses a small brass wing nut that has been in my assorted nut and bolt box for as long as I can remember.  I knew there would be a use for it.  The spot marks on the support signify when the valve is closed centre and the outer the minimum movement for the valve to be fully open in each direction.





Having decide on the fabricated route I checked on what materials I had to make the cylinder with.  I came up with a piece of thick wall brass tube for the cylinder itself and some hexagonal brass for the other bits of the cylinder.





It was a bit disappointing to find that the bore of the tube was a little over 1/2" in diameter however it was a bonus!  A piece of K&S brass tube with an ID of 1/2" is a slide fit in the bore so it could be used as a liner.  So it saves having to get a good finish on a long 1/2" bore and my 1/2" reamer is getting to the end of its life.  I even managed to find a 1/2" '0' ring.





So it is pencil sharpening time to see what can be done with the materials available.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi,

Having made the decision to fabricate the cylinder I retired to the drawing office for a bit.





Having made a working drawing it was back to the workshop to cut metal first the hexagonal rod was cut to length.





The the ends of the hexagonal rod were faced to length before centre drilling followed by a 18 mm drill.








The short length of remaining hexagonal rod received similar treatment but a smaller size hole which was also bored and made round before parting off and faced.











Little had to be done to the cylinder tube just cut it to length and shoulder its ends to take the brass washers previously made.





The brass washes were hard soldered to the tube.





After an afternoons work we have a brass bobbin and a hexagonal rod with a hole through it.





Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi,

Today I continued making the cylinder and fitting it to the engine.  An aluminium plug with a hole the size of the piston rod was used to line the cylinder up with the beam.  I hope the the photo graphs show how the cylinder was made.  Any question please ask.

The Hexagonal brass tube was cut to make the base of the cylinder.















The base was soldered to the cylinder tube and machined.





Steam passageways were drilled.








The cylinder fitted to the engine.











As of 5.00 pm this evening.  There is still quite a bit to do fit the K&S brass tube liner, cylinder covers and piston have to be made and the valve connected to its actuating rod.  Some pipes will need to be fitted to the port block/cylinder support and some tidying up of screws etc.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi,

A video of the part complete engine being turned over by an electric drill.

https://youtu.be/FT9Q4Gmv4N0

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Jan 7, 2016)

Hi,
A lot of what I have achieved today is cosmetic.

The holes cut in the trivet were cleaned up.





The base of the cylinder/valve support was thinned a bit and was cut to match the trivet.





Steam and exhaust pipes were fitted.





A valve rod was made and fitted.





This is how the engine looks at the end of work today with all the screws cut to length and blackened.








Only the cylinder to finish with covers and piston.  A liner still has to be fitted.

Regards Tony.


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## Tony Bird (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi,

A video of testing the valve gear action.

https://youtu.be/7raw-igyICA

Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Jan 8, 2016)

Tony,
How is the cylinder attached to its support?  Is it free to move on the large central depression?  If so what ensures that the steam ports remain aligned?
Thanks again for sharing, this is quite a project - fascinating how you fabricated the cylinder and its base.
David


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## Tony Bird (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi David,

*How is the cylinder attached to its support? Is it free to move on the large central depression? If so what ensures that the steam ports remain aligned?
*

The cylinder is an oscillating cylinder that doesn't move much and shares the same trunion as the oscillating valve.  The cylinder has to move to allow for the shallow arc scribed by the beam, if it didn't move; parallel motion, a coupling rod or the like would need to be used to stop the piston rod jamming in the cylinder.  As the cylinder moves very little the holes in the cylinder and port block don't really get out of line. 


Today only had a few hours in the shed.  The K&S brass tube liner was fitted in the cylinder and the steam/exhaust slot milled in the ends of the cylinder.  An oil pot was fitted to the valve rod and the bottom cylinder cover made.

Milling steam/exhaust slots in the cylinder.





Lapping the cylinder bore.





Lapped bore.





Parting off the cylinder cover.





Cosmetic work on the cylinder cover.





Cylinder cover fitted.





Valve rod oil pot.





Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Jan 9, 2016)

Tony,
Thanks for the cylinder attachment information.  I thought the cylinder was moving a little on the video, just could not think why it would be an oscillator with a rotary valve.  Now it is clear.  
Once again thank you.....


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## Tony Bird (Jan 9, 2016)

Hi,

I did a bit more cosmetic work on the engine.  The cylinder looked a little plain so some bands have been fitted to it.









The top cylinder cover has been made.

First the inside was machined with a spigot to allow the other side to be machined.





With the other side machined the spigot was removed.





This is how the engine now looks.








Only the piston and gaskets to make and if the engine doesn't need to much tweaking it might get to run on air tomorrow.

Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Jan 10, 2016)

I'll be waiting and watching!th_wwpDavid


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## Tony Bird (Jan 10, 2016)

Hi David,

I'll be waiting and watching!


Not quite up to your Wild Life photographs but:

Here we are finished; text and video to follow when it has been down loaded.

Regards Tony.


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## 10K Pete (Jan 10, 2016)

Tony you're amazing! It's beautiful.

Pete


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## Tony Bird (Jan 11, 2016)

Hi,

Well the Trivet engine is finished!  It didn't need much tweaking after I had found that I had managed to fit the oscillating valve 90 degrees out!

Gaskets made and fitted





The piston was roughed out.





The piston was then fitted on its rod for finishing by hand turning.





Piston with its '0' ring fitted in cylinder.





The packing for the piston rod is PTFE plumbers tape wound up using a drill and fitted around the rod before twisting again.  The twisted tape is then wound around the rod and compressed by the glad nut.











The finished product.





It will be a couple of weeks before the models steam test as I don't like heating the cylinders too soon after they have been painted.

Test the 0 fitted to the piston.

https://youtu.be/sRgLuB-ljsk

The finished engine running on air.

https://youtu.be/2R-6Z4QnZ94

Well another project tomorrow.

Regards Tony.


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## Cymro77 (Jan 11, 2016)

Tony,
A triumph!th_wav 
You also just gave me another new trick.  I always have trouble with the valve and cylinder packing - the rolled up plumbers teflon tape is brilliant.  Will be using it on the 10H I am currently restoring.  Thanks once again for sharing not only your wonderful creativity but also your knowledge of machining and fettling.
David

p.s. Great pictures and Video - sound track is ot bad either.  The 1812 might be a better conclusion.


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## Tony Bird (Jan 18, 2016)

Hi,

Having given the paint on the Trivet engine a week or more to cure the engine had its first run on steam this morning.








A photograph I forgot to include earlier: because the oscillating valve is so large it was lapped to a near mirror finish to reduce friction.






I am quite pleased with the performance of the engine; to turn over slowly on air it requires about 5 psi and a steam boiler needs about 25 psi to give the same result as air.  I have never made a Half Beam engine before and if I make another I will try and balance the weight of the beam and the connecting rod more accurately so the engine would work more slowly.  The power required lifting the beam and its weight&#8217;s help on the down stroke means at low speed the action becomes lumpy, a bigger flywheel would help.

Regards Tony.

Forgot the video I made as the boiler ran out of gas! Video at:

https://youtu.be/p8zFU1iXWxQ


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## Charles Lamont (Jan 19, 2016)

Next Project: you are wasting that vase as a chimney, it clearly wants to be a "bottle" engine:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/remark/pages/Temp/images/bottleeng.jpg


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## Tony Bird (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi Charles,

*Next Project: you are wasting that vase as a chimney, it clearly wants to be a "bottle" engine:*

A good idea!  Very tempting.

Regards Tony.


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