# Making morton m5 engine cylinders



## royal-corsair (May 8, 2016)

I'm looking for someone to make me some morton m5 engine cylinders from t6 billet aluminum stock.
attached is a print and cad drawings.
need 5 or 7 cylinders.

here are some examples i've found.
http://www.littlelocos.com/littlelocos_web_page_005.htm 
































View attachment CYLINDER.zip


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## royal-corsair (May 16, 2016)

strange how not one single person has responded or offered to lend me a hand.


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## Swifty (May 17, 2016)

For a model engine maker to make them for his own use is one thing, to make them for someone else and charge them for the many hours spent making them would not be an option for the end user. The cost would be prohibitive.

Paul.


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## Richard1 (May 17, 2016)

My break even price is about £20 / hour and there will be lots of hours in that job + material + freight. 

I can't at present guess at the time required as although I have made plenty of complicated things I have never made anything like that cylinder so for me it would be a make it and see job.

Having had a look at the 3D model there seem to be some bits in the finning around the inlet and exhaust ports that can't be machined as there is no way to get to them. I think if you want the part exactly as modelled then you are looking at lost wax casting.

Where are you?

I believe as Swifty says the cost would be prohibitive.


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## gbritnell (May 17, 2016)

I think nobody replied because of the enormity of the project. As has been stated the time really can't be calculated until the first one is done and this would involve all the fixtures to complete it. The cylinders shown in the link you attached aren't the same as what you show pictures of. On them the rocker posts are screw on pieces. It looks to me like the pictures you posted show that the cylinders were done with a CNC machine. That's not saying that they couldn't be done by hand but here again it's a lot of time. 
Let me ask what your intentions are, to build a Morton with them? If so how are you going to machined the other pieces? 
gbritnell


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## RonGinger (May 18, 2016)

Many years ago in STRICTLY IC magazine there was a series on building a wax mold for making investment cast M5 cylinders. I think the author was Bruce Satra, but I may have that wrong. I believe after making the mold he did offer castings for sale for a while, but  he may have passed on by now. Sorry for my vagueness- I remember the main story but not the details.


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## gbritnell (May 18, 2016)

You're correct Ron. Bruce did have a website where he sold parts for the Morton but sadly he's gone and I haven't heard if it was taken over or not. 
gbritnell


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## Richard1 (May 18, 2016)

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/11629052-super-morton-m5-bruce-satra.html

Last post on this list was a month ago, they are looking for people interested in building this engine and they have the molds and tooling so MAY be able to help with cylinder castings.

Worth asking them anyway.


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## petertha (May 18, 2016)

Richard1 said:


> ... they are looking for people interested in building this engine and they have the molds and tooling so MAY be able to help with cylinder castings..


 
You found the link I was thinking of but couldn't recall where. I would think procuring castings would be significantly less expensive over what is probably a multi-axis CNC job + related fixtures for bar stock equivalent. 

Not sure if this is relevant ballpark $$, but these two vendors supply limited pre-made parts relating to their own plans/designs. Your Morton example is even more specialized & complex because its integrated cylinder + head + rocker perch + other features all rolled up into one part vs. separately assembled components. 

http://www.engineman.de/?wpsc_product_category=9-zylinder-sternmotor&lang=en
http://www.cad-jung-shop.de/epages/62479729.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62479729/Categories/%22Bauteile%20f%C3%BCr%20Modellmotore%22


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## Mechanicboy (May 18, 2016)

Nice work at cylinders from bar stock of aluminium, but not cheap in electric consumption for home machinist, price of material before create to a product, an a lot hours of working.

There are two thing to think if the engine is used in the model airplane:
1. Cylinder made of aluminium bar stock is more strong against crash.
2. Cast cylinder of aluminium is brittle and knock off if crashed.

To be honest, i never seen the model airplane with Morton M5.


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## royal-corsair (May 18, 2016)

RonGinger said:


> Many years ago in STRICTLY IC magazine there was a series on building a wax mold for making investment cast M5 cylinders. I think the author was Bruce Satra, but I may have that wrong. I believe after making the mold he did offer castings for sale for a while, but  he may have passed on by now. Sorry for my vagueness- I remember the main story but not the details.



you are correct, Bruce has passed on. the link in a post below leads to my account on Rcuniverse.
Bruce's close friend and care taker Mike White was given the molds for the M1, and m5 as well as m2. However, Bruce had sent the cylinder die to another individual to be re-made because when he made the super 7, he modified the original cylinder mold so intake and exhaust ports could either be off side of cylinder or face rearward. If building an original m5 this would ruin everything. However this individual with the cylinder die has yet to do anything and now claims that Bruce gave it to him as a gift and it is unclear if he wishes to aid in producing castings.


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## royal-corsair (May 18, 2016)

gbritnell said:


> I think nobody replied because of the enormity of the project. As has been stated the time really can't be calculated until the first one is done and this would involve all the fixtures to complete it. The cylinders shown in the link you attached aren't the same as what you show pictures of. On them the rocker posts are screw on pieces. It looks to me like the pictures you posted show that the cylinders were done with a CNC machine. That's not saying that they couldn't be done by hand but here again it's a lot of time.
> Let me ask what your intentions are, to build a Morton with them? If so how are you going to machined the other pieces?
> gbritnell



Hello Mr. Bitnell, i met you at the NAMES show this year and admired the 5 cylinder radial engine ou made which resembled the m5, I would prefer to replace all the crankcase castings with parts machined from billet aluminum. However, I comprehend fully well that this too is costly as are castings, I figured the cylinder would be the most time consuming so I started there.


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## royal-corsair (May 18, 2016)

Richard1 said:


> http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/11629052-super-morton-m5-bruce-satra.html
> 
> Last post on this list was a month ago, they are looking for people interested in building this engine and they have the molds and tooling so MAY be able to help with cylinder castings.
> 
> Worth asking them anyway.



that link goes to my account on Rcuniverse.


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## royal-corsair (Jul 17, 2016)

My business partner Mike White has gotten thevernal engineering site up and running, parts are available. www.vernalengineering.com


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## gbritnell (Jul 17, 2016)

Hi royal-corsair,
I went to the link for the website and read all the material. It's great to see the engine revived. I had some conversation with Bruce Satra over the years and he seemed like a great guy. I even bought some of his distributor caps way back when. 
Although mine is based on the Morton drawings there's not much the same. If anything I have done could help you please don't hesitate to contact me. 
I talked to so many people at NAMES this year what with the Sherline award and all so hopefully we were able to talk a little. 
gbritnell


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## jacobball2000 (Mar 4, 2022)

Any one knows what the id of the crank case is?


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## jacobball2000 (Mar 4, 2022)

royal-corsair said:


> My business partner Mike White has gotten thevernal engineering site up and running, parts are available. www.vernalengineering.com


page dead


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## Richard Carlstedt (Mar 4, 2022)

Morton original was 1.625"
Sigler's revision drawing which Bruce Satra used is 1.620 "

Rich


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## jacobball2000 (Mar 5, 2022)

looks a lot bigger than an inch and 9/16


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 5, 2022)

1-5/8


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