# Building #52, Elmers RVTW



## Metal Butcher (Dec 26, 2009)

With the completion of my double build of Elmer's #14 its time to start another. The model I picked is Elmer's #52 Reversible Vertical Twin Wobbler (RVTW). I down loaded the plans and took a quick look at the materials on hand. Looks like I have enough scrap for the project. I can slice up some brass and aluminum pepperonis to make square if need be. This makes today my official starting date.

"The Cylinders are double acting and self starting". Music to my ears. Could turn out to be another one or two pounder!

Tomorrow I'll clean up the shop a bit, and start gathering tools and materials need to take my first cuts. But first I need to vacuum up the house a bit. Seems that some aluminum chips grew tiny wings and migrated out side there "allowed territory" to be noticed by "Honey."My first picture/post should be in a day or two. 

Feel free to post a picture, if your done... or grab a hunk of metal, and join in with the fun! That sorta rhymes :big:

Plans; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmers_Engines_4/files/

-MB


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## lathe nut (Dec 26, 2009)

Metal Butcher, I am excit me, you start machining and I start copy and paste, going to have me a place soon where I can machine in the heat in the winter and the cool in the summer, my wife is going to let me have the storage room that is next to our carport with the house all under one roof, its 6X24 and she got the 3,200 square foot house, she said that is a good deal for me, Yes Dear, cleaning it out and doing a paint job, going to be nice to be inside, Lathe Nut


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## cfellows (Dec 26, 2009)

Man, you are on a roll! Are you going to work your way through all of em?  :big:

Chuck


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## Metal Butcher (Dec 26, 2009)

lathe nut  said:
			
		

> Metal Butcher, I am excit me, you start machining and I start copy and paste, going to have me a place soon where I can machine in the heat in the winter and the cool in the summer, my wife is going to let me have the storage room that is next to our carport with the house all under one roof, its 6X24 and she got the 3,200 square foot house, she said that is a good deal for me, Yes Dear, cleaning it out and doing a paint job, going to be nice to be inside, Lathe Nut



Sounds like you couldn't ask for a better trade, as long as you can occasionally visit the other half of the house.

6x24 you say! That will be a very, very big shop!

If you can install a phone, couch, refrigerator, and toilet you will have more available shop time! Sort of a home away from home!

Make an agreement that every one cleans their own half! ( I got talked into cleaning outside my "territory" today! :big:

-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Dec 26, 2009)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Man, you are on a roll! Are you going to work your way through all of em? :big:
> 
> Chuck



Hi Chuck.

I don't have any set plans. Remember me building two of your designs in the winter last year.

I still would like to build a few more of Elmer's Engines, but I can switch direction on a whim.

There are so many models out there, and on this forum, that I doubt any one could build them all in a short time.

But I'll keep trying! :big:


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 27, 2009)

Looking forward to the build MB.



			
				Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Make an agreement that every one cleans their own half! ( I got talked into cleaning outside my "territory" today!



'Territory'? You lucky. I've been told I have a rental...with no lease.


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## Metal Butcher (Dec 29, 2009)

#1 To start off my project I marked out a 1/2" 6061 aluminum plate and band saw cut the oversize rough blanks. I would have preferred using a harder material for the column but my choices are limited by my current supply on hand. In many of his plans Elmer suggests a "fixture grade" of aluminum, and I suspect that 6061 does not qualify.







#2 After roughing out the pieces their four edges were sized and squared using an end mill.






#3 All the pieces were planed flat on both sides using a fly cutter. In the picture below the reason for this step can be clearly seen. After a .002" cut the areas indicated with a marker were not even touched. It took another .002 cut to achieve a flat surface. All of the plates made were planed level on both sides. This is a critical step that's needed to assure that all subsequent parts bolt together with a high degree of precision needed for smooth assembly and running.






#4 The picture below shows the major structural components of the build ready for the next machining steps. The two small blocks in the upper right corner will become the bearing blocks that support the crank shaft.






#5 The cylinders will be cut from the 1" x 3/4" brass rectangle. I changed my mind and will not be using the 3/4' X 3/4" brass bar shown below. The upper and lower cylinder heads will be made as a build-up of lathe turned pieces assembled to a 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" base plate. The lower heads will need to be very precise or the piston will bind. It will be interesting to see if I can make this ideal work.





#6 Here I'm sizing the block of brass that will become the two cylinders. These will also be made as a build-up of the cylinders and separate 1/4" pivots. The blocks were sized to 1- 5/16" long 3/4" wide, and .7813 deep.(not shown)






#7 I cut the cylinder heads 3/4" + .030" long, from 3/4" wide by 1/8" thick brass rectangle scrap. In the picture below the cut ends are being milled down to 3/4" in length.






#8 As you can see there will be a lot of filing to bring these pieces up to a presentable state. I made two extra blanks just in case, and due to the precisely located 1/2" hole they will need to become the basis of my build up attempt. Again, it will be interesting to see if my idea will work.






#9 The picture below is not necessarily related to this build. It shows a drilling fixture I made for 3/16" bronze pipe fittings. When I went to assemble my last build (Elmer's #14) I found out I didn't have a "tee" that was needed and the few elbows on hand were not drilled and tapped. I finished the fittings using my old unreliable eye-ball method along with the wrong fitting jus as a temporary way to finish my build. Then it dawned on me that I never machined up the fixture that was recommended by bearcar1 in answer to a thread I post quite a while back.

Thank you bearcar! :bow:
For posting the help that I needed to make a fixture to machine 3/16" elbows, tee's, crosses and unions. The project slipped my mind till last Saturday, and today I made the fixture just prior to this post. My fixture is made from rectangular stock for use in the mill. Its a great idea for a fixture, and it should work perfectly.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4479.0






-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 1, 2010)

#10 To finish up the milling on the base I started by roughing out the crank shaft pocket with a 1/2" end mill. This first operation was eye balled up to about .030 inside the scribed lines. 






#11 Using a 1/4" end mill the pocket was finished using the calibrated hand wheels to move the milling table to calculated co-ordinates. The accuracy of the openings size came out much better than previos work done using an eye-ball method.






#12 Milling out the four 45 degree clearance cut outs for the piston rods was very easy. I remembered the jig I made to simplify milling identical corners on the bearing blocks of a previos build. After I using an edge finder to zero out on the front edge of the 'base', I exchanged it for a 3/8" end mill and moved it the distance shown on the plan. After setting the correct cutter height and locking the quill, It was a simple cut-flip-cut to finish all four openings.






#13 To cut the profiles on two sides of the base I set the end mill at the proper height and moved it in the width specified in the plan. It was a simple matter of cut-rotate-cut. To get a nice finish using only one cut I went slow and used aluminum cutting fluid.






#14 The picture below shows the 'base' with all the milling finished. After I drill all the necessary holes, and after a little file and sandpaper work, it will be ready for paint or polish.






#15 The 'retainer' will be made as a build up. I will add the bosses needed to hold the cylinder retaining screw, spring, and ball. Below the picture shows it milled out and ready for the next step.






#16 The final milling step was to add a little detail to the plain rectangular look the 'retainer'. I used a corner rounding end mill to add a radius on its upper and lower sides. The front and back will be left flat for the addition of the bosses. In the plans the 'retainer' is made as one piece by turning it up in the lathe, which gave its sides a large radius.






-MB


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 1, 2010)

Looking great. Finally had a chance to find a picture of the engine. That's going to be nice.

'aluminum cutting fluid'...I hadn't heard that mentioned before...what's the brand name so I can learn about it?

Thanks


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## ksouers (Jan 1, 2010)

Holy Cow, MB! You're really moving right along on this.


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## Deanofid (Jan 1, 2010)

Going along well, MB. That rounding bit makes a nice job of the corners.
I see your milling machine is "that color" too! You're dedicated!
; )


Zee, "aluminum cutting fluid"; Don't know what MB uses, but one of the few things that WD-40 is actually good for, IMO. On some of the gummy types, it helps keep the end mill flutes from plugging. Tap Magic works pretty well, but WD seems to do quite well.


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## tel (Jan 1, 2010)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Looking great. Finally had a chance to find a picture of the engine. That's going to be nice.
> 
> 'aluminum cutting fluid'...I hadn't heard that mentioned before...what's the brand name so I can learn about it?
> 
> Thanks



Yeah, WD40 works, or just plain old kerosene (lamp oil) (paraffin to you Poms)


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 1, 2010)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Looking great. Finally had a chance to find a picture of the engine. That's going to be nice.
> 
> 'aluminum cutting fluid'...I hadn't heard that mentioned before...what's the brand name so I can learn about it?
> 
> Thanks



Hi Zee. The aluminum cutting fluid I used is called Tapmatic dual action #2 cutting fluid for aluminum. Its made by Tapmatic corp. It does work and helps to get a smoother finish on aluminum. It may have been replaced with a safer formula, but not as good from what I hear. 

When I tap aluminum I use Tap Magic tapping (cutting) fluid. It made by Steco Corp. Its no longer available so I treat my supply like gold, and use it one small drop at a time when I tap small blind holes in aluminum. 

Here's a link that may have answers to any questions you may have.

http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/cuttingfluids_pg/LPS_CuttingFluid.html

-MB


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks MB. I've heard of Tap Magic but hadn't gone looking. I didn't know there were various types. Thanks again.


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## Deanofid (Jan 2, 2010)

MB, and Zee, Tap Magic is still made by the same company. They changed it slightly about 10-12 years ago to get rid of the ozone depleting chem it contained. We used it by the gallon at a shop where I worked during the time they made the change.  There was a difference in the new formulation, but it didn't change our production or tool life that I could tell, so I kept using it, and still do today. It's here;

http://www.tapmagic.com/

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-2007&PMPXNO=940681&PARTPG=INLMK32

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-2011&PMPXNO=940682&PARTPG=INLMK32

Either of the two in the Enco links seem to work the same, for my use, at least. 

Dean


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 2, 2010)

Dean, Zee, and every body else, I remember when the formula change came. In that era I was adding tools and would visit two machine shop suppliers on a weekly basis. I got to talk to a lot of customers and sales people on a regular basis. The general consensus at that time was that the 'new' Tap Magic for 'aluminum' fell short in performance, and as a result sales plummeted to the point were they stopped carrying Tap Magic for 'Aluminum' altogether. I don't think that Enco carries it to this day. They carry Tap magic 'cutting', Tap Magic 'Pro', but no Tap Magic 'for aluminum'. Quite a while back I ran out of the 'old' formula for aluminum. I tried the 'new' Tap Magic for 'aluminum' and didn't like it at all compared to the original formula. Afterward I started using the 'old' formulation of Tapmatic #2 cutting fluid or aluminum as a replacement. Recently I got an unopened can of the 'original' formula of Tap Magic for 'Aluminum' and I just love the way it works. I mentioned in my previos post that its no longer available, meaning the 'old original' formula. The old Tap Magic is much better than The 'old' formula Tapmatic #2 for aluminum, which was better than the 'new' Tap Magic for Aluminum. I should mention that I have not tried the regular 'Tap Magic', or the 'Tap Magic Pro' and assume that they are not specifically marketed for use on aluminum, but may work well in their targeted area of general use.

The Mention of a "cutting fluid for Aluminum" in my previos 'build post' was a calculated move to bring to light that the use of cutting fluids can and does make a difference in finish quality. Granted, we all have our own favorite products.

Discussing which product or brand is better, is like discussing which brand or type of 'alcohol delivery system' is better, especially if we already had a few! Every one has a favorite, opinions vary and change from year to year, sometimes from drink to drink. The only constant and recurring event is the 'sought after' result of over-consumption. ;D 

However, when we are in the shop, and using cutting fluid for its intended purpose, in most cases just a 'drop' will do. 

-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 3, 2010)

#17 For today's build post I made the drill jig. They are a very handy and accurate way of locating the port holes on the cylinders and face of the column.






#18 Using a stop block set up in the mill vise, a 5/8" recess ('under cut') was milled .020 deep on the pivot face side of each cylinder. On the opposite side I milled the 'dimple' .020 deep using a 3/16 ball end mill. Elmer specified .010 for the 'under cut' and no specification for the ball 'dimple'.






#19 Since I'm making the cylinders as a build-up, 1/4" pivot pins were needed and cut to length. The cylinders were drilled and reamed to a depth that left the pivot pins 7/32" proud of the cylinders face. After fluxing, the pins were pushed in and popped right back out! So, I drilled holes down the center of where the piston bores will be drilled to meet the pivot pin bore. This passage will release the trapped air, and any build up of pressure created during the soldering process.






#20 After the cylinders cooled down they were drilled and reamed for the 1/2" bore.






#21 To make the lower cylinder 'heads' a build-up I drilled and reamed them 3/8" to match the diameter of the boss that will be tapped for the 'packnut'. With the mill all set up for the holes I decided to also drill the upper 'heads' for an added decorative boss.






#22 Below is a picture of how the upper 'heads' will look. The decorative 'caps' are a light press fit. During final assembly loc-tite will be used to assure a more permanent and air tight fit.






#23 To make the 'boss' for the lower 'head' assembly's, the packing nuts were turned up from 1/4" brass hex stock and threaded 1/4-20. I did not drill and ream the thru 1/8" hole for the piston rod. After turning up and tapping the 3/8" stock for the lower 'boss', I put some graphite packing string into the pack nut hole and tightened up the nut with the addition of low strength blue loc-tite. After a curing period the 1/8" hole for the piston rod was drilled and reamed thru both parts, and then cut off using a parting tool.






#24 The picture below shows one lower 'head' assembly finished and pressed together temporarily.






#25 All of the upper and lower cylinder 'head' bolt holes were drilled and tapped for 2-56 screws. Sometimes this part becomes a little bit repetitious and leads to boredom. I fight the tendency to rush this process, which can lead to tap breakage.






#26 Below is the final picture in this post. I drilled and tapped the pistons for the specified 5-40 thread, and then counter bored them .125" by .125" deep using a reamer. Before completely parting off the pistons I shut down the lathe, backed out the parting tool, and hand polished off the corner burrs with 1200 grit sand paper. The pistons fit very well, and are between .0005 and .0007 smaller than the cylinder bores. 






Did someone say, "break time!" ;D 

-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 5, 2010)

#27 To make the piston rod ends, 1/4" thick brass stock was sized to height for both halves of the ends using an end mill. The length of the stock was long enough to make duplicate pieces. 






#28 I squared one end first, and then scribed a line for over size cut off using the band saw. The saw cut end will be milled square later, and to exact length along with the other three halves that will make up the piston rod ends.






#29 After cutting out the two corners on the larger halve of the piston rod ends with an end mill, all the holes were drilled for screw clearance or tapping. The 1/8" piston rod hole, and the 1/4" crank pin hole were finished by reaming.






#30 The 'bearings' that were milled to dimension in an earlier post were drilled and tapped for the 4-40 screws that will hold them to the 'base'.






#31 The picture below shows the profile's being milled with a 1/2" corner rounding end mill. I was planing (plan A) on just a slight round-over on the corners, but I didn't like the way they looked. I went with more of a profile (plan B) that ended cutting into the tapped hold down holes. I have to either remake the 'bearing' block and drill to shallower depth, or fill in the exposed holes.






#32 Since aluminum 'bearing' blocks would wear out quickly, I drilled and reamed them for 3/8" diameter (Enco #325-7480) slithered bronze bushings (Oilites). They are also 3/8" long, which is greater than the 5/16" width of the bearing' blocks. They will be pressed in and adjusted to eliminate the "thin spacer" or "thin washer" that Elmer specifies in many of his plans. I use over length bushings habitually on most of my builds since I don't have any of these "thin spacers," whatever that may be.






Has anyone started to build one of these?

-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 7, 2010)

#33 For today's post I built the crankshaft. The first step was to turn down stock that the three crank disc's would be cut from. I chose aluminum since a good supply of 1-1/2" round bar stock is on hand. I chucked it up in the lathe and center drilled for a tail stock live center due to its length. After machining the O.D. I drilled and reamed the central 1/4" hole all the way through and faced the end. I removed it from the chuck and cut off the larger 1-1/32 disc in the band saw. After returning the stock to the lathe the two smaller disc's were faced and then cut off with a parting tool. All three discs are faced on one side and will be faced from the other side to exact length after the crank pin holes are drilled.

The reason that I removed the stock from the chuck, and cut off the longer piece first, and in the band saw, was that I felt it was sticking out of chuck to far for parting off safely. I marked it first so that it could be returned to its exact position. I checked it for run- out with my dial indicator before proceeding with the facing and cut- off of the smaller discs.






#34 To accurately drill the crank pin holes through all three discs, a simple holding fixture would do the trick. After clamping a scrap block in the mill's vice, I faced it flat to insure that its face would be perpendicular to the mill's spindle axis. With the hand wheels zeroed out I drilled and reamed a 1/4" through hole. This will allow the disc's to be individually bolted "faced side" down to drill and ream all three disc's. After shifting the tables X axis .375" both thinner disc's were drilled and reamed. The thicker center disc was drilled and reamed last to insure accuracy. After its first hole was drilled and reamed, the table was shifted back to zero on the X axis, and then shifted .375" on the Y axis to drill its second hole in one set up. I used a precision .250" rod threaded on both end to accurately locate and hold down the work pieces during the drilling and reaming operations. The 90 degree offset on the crank throw has me scratching my head. I keep thinking that maybe I should have changed it to 180. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I guess that a four jaw chuck, along with a proper lay out of the hole locations would also do the trick, if I had one.






#35 The picture below shows the crank pin holes being drilled and reamed to the finished size. Afterward they were returned to the lathe for final facing and sizing.






#36 To assemble the crank I used a different sequence than the one that Elmer suggests. For step one I installed the main shaft into the larger center disc with Loc-tite and let it cure. In step two I added one out side disc and Loc-tited it to the center shaft only, and used the short crank pin for line up only, while spacing it away from the center disc with space blocks.








#37 After the Loc-tite cured on the first out side disc, the same procedure was followed on the second disc. In the picture below you can see that the crank pin is not in place an can be moved about freely while the second disc sets up. After all three discs cured and became one with the center shaft, the two crank pins were removed and installed with Loc-tite. The white smudge in the picture below is a piece of paper towel used to absorb excess Loc-tite on the center shaft. I didn't want my space blocks to become a permanent part of my crank shaft assembly. ;D






#38 The final but scary step is to hack saw out the center shaft between the crank throw webs. Its a good idea to protect the crank pins with several layers of tape or whatever is deemed appropriate during the sawing. On my first attempt of this type of crank shaft, the saw broke through and landed on the crank pin creating a unwanted cut.

I offset the crank to allow for a possible 1/2" wide flywheel on one side, while reducing the other side to a 1/8" protrusion out side of the bearing. With a light aluminum crank I might want to add a fly wheel. In the plan the shaft is centered and the protrusion on two sides seems a bit small for the addition of any thing other than a thin pulley.

After a little bit of filling to clean up the saw cut ends, the crank is masked and ready for paint.






Did you notice that I left out the expansion pins? I'm getting a little brave! :big:

-MB


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## lathe nut (Jan 7, 2010)

Nice work, thanks for the pictures and description, Lathe Nut


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## cfellows (Jan 7, 2010)

Nice work, MB. When you use loctite, how close a fit is the hole to the shaft?

Chuck


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 7, 2010)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Nice work, MB. When you use loctite, how close a fit is the hole to the shaft?
> 
> Chuck



Hi Chuck. I honestly can't accurately measure a 1/4" hole, but I used a .250" precision ground s.s. rod on this crank and reamed the holes with a .250" reamer which gave me a snug sliding fit. I usually get a light press fit, but it seems that on aluminum the reamers go just a little more over than on brass or steel. But I would venture to say the gap was less than .001" in this particular build up.

From what I understand Loctite will fill and seal a much larger gap, but a good close fit is nice for a good line up between the parts.

I see that you got back to the 4 cylinder build that you shelved last year. I was hoping that you would get back to it. I would like to build one along the same lines someday.

-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 9, 2010)

#39 I made the spring retaining 'screws' from standard 360 brass hex. I machined the three diameters using my simple DRO system. Its has adjustable rods that make contact with two fixed position 0-1" AGD group-2 dial indicators. The "Dial Readout" set up cost me less than $20 including a few scrap blocks of aluminum and the two steel rods.







#40 After I threaded them 1/4-40 I cut them off with a parting tool. The picture below shows the 'springs' and '3/16 ball' bearings that will press and hold the cylinders against the column. I'll be using .180 x .020 x .626 springs on hand. I got these from Enco (part # 240-0561). They are a smaller wire diameter, but longer than what's specified in the plans. If I notice any cylinder lift or leakage I can go up to the next (heavier) wire size.






#41 I made the 'cylinder retainer' as a build up of three parts. The two screw bosses were machined to a .3755 diameter by 3/8" long. Prior to cut off in the lathe they were tapped 1/4-40.






#42 I drilled and reamed the ends of the 'retainer' .375 for a light press fit, and assembled the three pieces with the addition of Loc-tite. The sides of the 'cylinder retainer were clearance drilled #32, and countersunk for the two 4-40 flat head screws that will hold it to the 'column'.






#43 I finished up the previously milled 'base' by drilling all the necessary holes. The four corner clearance holes were reduced to #32 drill for the 4-40 screws that will be used to mount the engine on a wooden base. I was puzzled by the 1/8" holes indicated in the plans. Maybe that's a correct size for wood screws?

I didn't get much done today. I got together with my biker buddies for our monthly breakfast-get-together. Were a tough old bunch of bad @ss bikers, that brake for squirrels and never go over the speed limit. :big:






-MB


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## tel (Jan 11, 2010)

> The 90 degree offset on the crank throw has me scratching my head. I keep thinking that maybe I should have changed it to 180. Any one have any thoughts on this?



If you do this the engine will not be self starting. With the cranks at 90° one side of one piston is always under steam admission, thus the vast majority of twin cylinder engines (and locomotives) are set up this way.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks Tel. The self starting issue crossed my mind, but I wasn't sure. I dismissed the idea because my Open Column Twin is self starting and the crank pins are 180 degrees apart.

 Could it be that the engine stops every time in an optimum position to self start?

I feel that the 90 degree offset will throw the engine off balance considerably. And it may have been a good idea to change that to 180 since my engine will probably never be used in a launch or other application where a self start is desirable.

-MB


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## tel (Jan 11, 2010)

The balance is less of an issue than you might think, unless you are running at high speed. Elmer does try to address the issue somewhat by drilling that 3/16" hole through the centre crank web, between the two crank journals.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 11, 2010)

tel  said:
			
		

> The balance is less of an issue than you might think, unless you are running at high speed. Elmer does try to address the issue somewhat by drilling that 3/16" hole through the centre crank web, between the two crank journals.



Since my crank shaft is made up of mostly light aluminum, I didn't bother with the drilled counter balance hole. However, I did think about drilling a 1/4" 'through hole' in the larger center crank disc opposite the piston rod journals, and installing a heavy brass rod with Loc-tite.

Its an idea that might have worked, but without weighing the parts to determine if it would work I decided against it.

-MB


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## tel (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't think it would make a lot of difference either way. My crankshaft (when I get to it) will be all steel, but even so I don't think I'll bother with the hole.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

#44 I didn't get much done. To much time was spent one choosing a chucks ,machining their back plates and cleaning up the mess along with a few other time consuming odds and ends.

I drilled the face ports on the 'column' using the drilling 'jig' provided in Elmer's plans. After spotting with the 1/16" drill, the 'jig' was removed to allow an easier escape for the chips. This method allows for a simple but precise way of locating the ports.






#45 To speed up the milling of the first two steps on the 'column', I cut out the excess with my band saw. Milling all of it out would have taken longer, and left an avalanche of aluminum chips to clean up.






#46 The final milling of the lower end of the 'column' will be done later and after the opening for the crankshaft is bored out.






#47 I prepared the 'column' for mounting in a four jaw chuck by placing tape where the face of the jaws will touch, and by gluing (spray adhesive) brass strips were the tips of the jaws will contact the workpiece tightly to hold it rigidly in place.






#48 The set-up below wouldn't work. The two side jaws contact each other on the first step of the jaws before contacting the work piece.






#49 The same set-up as the picture above, just a different camera angle to show the problem. Only two jaws are in contact with the work piece. It doesn't seem safe to proceed with the drilling and subsequent borring.






#50 By reversing three of the jaws to their inside configuration I was able to reach the work piece on all four sides. This leaves one jaw in its outside configuration.






#51 The picture below is the same set-up as picture #50, just a different camera angle.

I'm afraid to start boring out the opening by drilling a 1/2" starter hole.
 With the face of only one jaw contacting the work piece (from behind) on a perpendicular plane to the spindle axis, There is a serious concern that the unsupported work piece could shift backwards.

I'm at a stand still with this set up and can't bring myself to start drilling.





-MB


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## mklotz (Jan 16, 2010)

Two remarks...

Think of making yourself a spider to go behind the workpiece. An appropriately sized slice of aluminum irrigation pipe or similar cut to the distance between the back of the workpiece and the front of the chuck should do the trick. You can (temporarily) glue it to the workpiece for peace of mind but, since it's trapped by the four jaws, it can't really go anywhere. 

If you decide to not use a spider, this may be one of the few occasions where step drilling is a good idea. By drilling in small increments you will minimize the force exerted on the workpiece.

Personally, I would make the spider. If you do, save it in a box labeled "spiders". You'll probably use it again in the future and you'll make more spiders during your career.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi Marv. My senses tell me that the spider is probably the safest way to go. It would however be totally custom to this odd offset piece, I think.

I thought about plunging in the starter hole with an end mill, and stopping periodically to check for a shift in the work piece.

I need to take another look at this situation before making any decision I might regret.

 Thanks. 

-MB


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## mklotz (Jan 16, 2010)

It will take you probably 15 minutes to make the spider. How long will it take to remake the engine standard? Even if you decide to throw it away after using it, it's still worth making it for the insurance value.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> It will take you probably 15 minutes to make the spider. How long will it take to remake the engine standard? Even if you decide to throw it away after using it, it's still worth making it for the insurance value.



I agree with you on all points. And I would recommend that any one facing this situation do exactly what you recommended.

That 4-jaw chuck just opened up a whole new dimension. No need for me to get creative on parts that need to be machined in a four jaw chuck. :big:

Thanks again.

-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 16, 2010)

MB;

Couple Questions for ya.........Do you see a real need for the 4" 4jaw with having the 6"?
All I have is the fine one that came with my lathe. Now with starting my build, looks like it could really come in handy.

Next, I see that you had to make a few solder joints, and am wondering what sort of torch you use?

Oh by the way, Nice job!!

Matt


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

I wasn't sure that the 4" would be adequate, and guess what! My first time use of a four jaw required the 6". The 6" is really big and heavy, so I'll use the 4" when that's all I need. I just checked the 4" and it will close down on two sides of a 1/8" rod, and with all four on a 3/16" rod. The valve lever on my current build is 1/8" x 3/16" and hopefully it will close down on it. If not the 1/8" sides will need shimming. I can't check the 6" at the moment since its tied up till tomorrow, but I believe the larger jaws don't close down as small as the 4".

If you get one, than I would say the 6" is the way to go. If the quality is acceptable you can always order the additional smaller 4" if you feel a need. There is no discount on shipping since the sellers can't throw it in the same package and add a pound or two in shipping cost to you bill. 

This is assuming the 'Shars' brand is your choice. There's a lot of brands and sellers out there to choose from.

Having a usable independent four jaw chuck is really a must, in my opinion.

-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 16, 2010)

Did you get your 4 jaws from that place in OH?


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

Sorry I forgot to mention that I use a standard Bernzomatic propane torch for soft 'Soldering'. I have been successful using it to 'silver braze' on very small pieces that will get 'red' hot. Although for 'silver brazing' an oxygen/acetylene setup is the way to go.

-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Did you get your 4 jaws from that place in OH?



Yes, Ohio was the way to go for me. Its a 'Shars', same as the other two sellers. Study the pictures closely. The shipping will be different for you because of the shipping point. Mine made a 35 mile trip across town in a UPS truck. No pick ups allowed. Most of these guys don't want to be bothered, or don't want anyone to see their Mickey Mouse operation. ;D

-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 16, 2010)

What you think of this Idea...........Getting a 6" 4jaw and instead of the 4" get a 3" 5c 4jaw chuck. Being I have the 5c on the lathe now. Would the 3" be useless do to its size for most of the Elmer's engines? I thought it would be nice for them lathe to mill transfers. I already have a 5c Indexer for the mill. Wouldn't have to re chuck and would save me an additional back plate to make.


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## 1hand (Jan 16, 2010)

Or.................... get the cheap 4" 4jaw and the 4" 5c mounting blank from my buddy there at CDCO for $36 and be set.


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## dreeves (Jan 16, 2010)

Great job so far. Here are pictures of the one I made several years ago.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> What you think of this Idea...........Getting a 6" 4jaw and instead of the 4" get a 3" 5c 4jaw chuck. Being I have the 5c on the lathe now. Would the 3" be useless do to its size for most of the Elmer's engines? I thought it would be nice for them lathe to mill transfers. I already have a 5c Indexer for the mill. Wouldn't have to re chuck and would save me an additional back plate to make.



Getting a 6" four jaw is probably a good idea. Have you tried to use the factory supplied four jaw lately? ;D

Do you mean to mount a chuck into a chuck? Sounds a little chucked up. You could transfer the collet from the lathe chuck to the 5C Spindex by un-chucking and re-chucking. 

You won't save any time during lathe to mill transfers, you would still have to un-chuck and re-chuck the chuck! Say that real fast three times. 

If its square work, then the 'vise will suffice!' Kinda rhymes don't it? If you decided to add a 4" 4-jaw later the back plate is only $18 from LMS. 

Got collet blocks? Oh no, here we go! 

Slow down, were gonna run otta money here!

-MBI

-MBII

oops, meds are wearing off, again. :big:


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

Dreeves, That's a real beauty! :bow:

 You made a lot more changes than you'll see on mine.

Wish you would have posted earlier so I could have 'borrowed' some of your ideas. ;D

Super job. Thanks for posting the pictures.

-MB


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## dreeves (Jan 16, 2010)

Your doing a great job keep it up.


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## 1hand (Jan 16, 2010)

Sorry to clutter your build page, but what I was getting at is.......say you got a square part and you need to turn a boss on one end. So you put it in the 4jaw on the lathe. now you got drill and tap a circle bolt pattern on the boss you just turned, so you then take the 4jaw 5c collet chuck out of the lathe tansfer it to your 5c mount on the mill. The piece stays mounted in the 4jaw that you carefully had all centered up while it was in the lathe. your 5c mount was all centered up in the mill a head of time, so you tighten the collet chuck down, move your off set and start drilling. 

This is kinda what I was referring to.

Matt

see how I wear myself out!!


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 16, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Sorry to clutter your build page, but what I was getting at is.......say you got a square part and you need to turn a boss on one end. So you put it in the 4jaw on the lathe. now you go to drill and tap a circle bolt pattern on the boss you just turned, so you then take the 4jaw 5c collet chuck out of the lathe transfer it to your 5c mount on the mill. The piece stays mounted in the 4jaw that you carefully had all centered up while it was in the lathe. your 5c mount was all centered up in the mill a head of time, so you tighten the collet chuck down, move your off set and start drilling.
> 
> This is kinda what I was referring to.
> 
> ...



Matt,Your not cluttering anything up. I'm interested in learning how to machine and the four jaw chuck and other issues are becoming a very important part of my engine project. Seeing that you have very similar needs along with having an identical lathe allows use to knock around ideas and solutions to fulfill present and future needs.

I think I understand what your saying about transferring the square work from the lathe to the mill. I would transfer the square work to the mill vise and zero out on its edges to drill the bolt pattern on the round lathe turned part of it. If you have a vertical indexer on the mill the idea should work well. I have a horizontal 5C spin fixture that won't work for a 'face on' bolt pattern. I've seen the 5C collet chuck your talking about and never understood how it could be used beneficially other than the ability to chuck up an odd size for mounting in a spindex. As far as anything like chuck being too small or to big was just proven to me with the need for a 6" four jaw. I imagine most would have said its a little big, but remember our lathes are a 9" swing short bed. If I had bought a 4" or 5' 4-jaw I would have been in trouble today, as a matter of fact if the piece were a 1/4" longer I would have needed to exceeded the 6" chucks listed capacity to make it work. Then the only other choice would have been a more tedious boring of the hole in the mill.

-MB

The bottom line is that the 6" 4-jaw is a necessity that works and fits our lathes.


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## 1hand (Jan 16, 2010)

Right, I have both the 5c indexer and the vertical/horz. mount also. I guess my biggest concern is trying to rotate odd shape pieces on the mill. I guess another avenue to go would be turn a plate with a spindle that matches my lathe to fit on my RT. That way I could use the 4jaws, 3jaws, and 5C chucks on both the lathe and mill just by spinning them off and spinning them back on. Then instead of having two of each chucks and separate back mounting plates every thing would be interchangeable with each other.

So my next Question issssssssss...............Will our lathes turn a M39x4 Thread?


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## 1hand (Jan 17, 2010)

If you think I freak show yet..................






Here I need to rotate on both axis's using the same reference point. Where if I had a chuck I could remove from machine to machine staying spot on would of been easier.

Matt


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 17, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Right, I have both the 5c indexer and the vertical/horz. mount also. I guess my biggest concern is trying to rotate odd shape pieces on the mill. I guess another avenue to go would be turn a plate with a spindle that matches my lathe to fit on my RT. That way I could use the 4jaws, 3jaws, and 5C chucks on both the lathe and mill just by spinning them off and spinning them back on. Then instead of having two of each chucks and separate back mounting plates every thing would be interchangeable with each other.
> 
> So my next Question issssssssss...............Will our lathes turn a M39x4 Thread?



That's a set-up that's crossed my mind. It would be much easier then machining individual flat back plates that could be bolted to the RT. My lathe spindle is 1-1/2"-8 thread.

One thing at a time. I got an idea! Why not get your 6" 4 jaw and back plate ordered, and start your #332 build project. Add tooling, other chucks, and fixtures when you need them, or when you need to take a break away from your build?

-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 17, 2010)

OK


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 17, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> If you think I freak show yet..................
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What the he..!

I feel a headache coming on.


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## 1hand (Jan 17, 2010)

I Know.................I should lay off on the Mountian Dew. woohoo1


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 18, 2010)

#52 The picture above looks like an attempt at breeding rotary tables. Havin any luck? :big:

The picture below was staged after the fact. I forgot to take a picture and lightly re-chucked the part to shoot the picture. After 'picture guy' posted the pics I realized I forgot to re-install a rectangular saw cut backing piece that was used between the work piece and the face of the chuck to assure that the work piece wouldn't shift backwards during the drilling and subsequent boring of the clearance opening for the crankshaft.

My new 4-jaw chuck worked flawlessly, and proved to be a wise addition for my lathe. I'm so glad I mustered up the courage to buy, and learn how to use one. Its hard for me to believe how simple it is to dial in a work piece to within a few tenths.






#53 After boring out the crank shaft opening, the out side profile was cut at a 45 degree angle. I like to alter plans to suit my taste, and the elimination of the curved profile was planed before I started this build. All that's left to do on the 'column' is to mill out the 1/8" slot for the 'Lever'. 






#54 I assembled the three structural pieces to see if every thing lines up, and all is well.






#55 The valve started out as a stock oversize (length wise) piece of square 1/4" brass bar. I milled out the opening for the 'Lever', and drilled the port holes first to simplify these steps while the valve material was still square.






#56 To turn the cylindrical parts of the 'Valve' my 4" chuck was installed. To remove the 6'' four jaw and replace it with the 4" took only two minutes. To dial in the workpiece within a 'tenth' took only a few more minutes. I still can't believe how easy this is, and I find the process relaxing and enjoyable.

A few years back I bought two of the indicator seen in the picture. At the start of my machining season back in November I looked at the tools in my collection and saw the cute little indicators in their fitted blue boxes. I thought to myself "why did I buy these", since I never had a use for them.






#57 After machining the two diameters I drilled the port hole from the threaded end to connect the two previously drilled cross port holes. I threaded the end for the 3/16" nut that was made up earlier along in the build. After checking all the measurements I parted off the 'valve'.

When I went to test fit it in the 'column' the ports didn't line up when the valve was pulled up against the stop nut! When it was pushed in against the square lever side, those ports lined up perfectly. After looking over the drawing under magnification it became apparent that the section I threaded was supposed to be cut- off, and the threaded section stopped at 1-7/32" and not the 1-5/16 dimension I followed in the lower drawing. The absence of the center drilled detail in the lower drawing threw me off! The fix was quick and simple. I reduced the diameter in the proposed area with a file, and carefully threaded for the nut to reach the 1-7/32" dimension. Then I cut off the excess threaded area with an Exacto Saw. It turned out well and left no evidence of the mishap. As they say, 'All is well that ends well."

In the picture below you can see that the nut is farther away from the port holes than the square section for the 'lever'. I didn't notice this until the pictures were uploaded earlier in the day. I went back down to the shop for the test fitting to see what the problem was, and fixed the problem with out any need to start all over again.






-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 18, 2010)

Some real progress today I see. Your getting me hooked on them 4 jaws. How many Thou. you take per pass on the crank opening when its mounted like that?

Nice work, Matt


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 18, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Some real progress today I see. Your getting me hooked on them 4 jaws. How many Thou. you take per pass on the crank opening when its mounted like that?
> 
> Nice work, Matt



It was mounted with a scrap aluminum rectangular block that fit between all four jaws, and was between the work piece and the face of the chuck. I went through both pieces with a 5/8" center cutting end mill and finished up with a HSS cutter. I used the power feed lever and cut in .020" per pass, which opens up the hole .040" per pass. The column is easy to machine T-6061 aluminum. I took it easy since the replacement for the 'column' would not be that easy.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 20, 2010)

#58 I used a piece of 'hard brass' to make the valve 'lever' due to my concern that the turned handle on top might be on the weak side due to its small diameter. In the past I had difficulty clamping 1/8" and thinner work pieces that couldn't be supported with the 1/8" parallels that I have. So I when ordered my chuck back plates I added ultra thin 1/32" parallels that George Britnell recommended when I mentioned the problem that I was having, with clamping up thin parts in my mill vise. I'm glad I ordered this set as they seem to be a 'must have' when building these small engines.

Thanks George!






#59 Below is the set of ultra thin 1/32" parallels. I'm going to get a lot of use out of these due to their small 1/16" increments in height.






#60 After milling the 'lever' to 1/8" x 3/16" x 3", the slot for the 'levers' pivot pin was milled out using a 1/16" end mill. I shimmed the 'lever' on all four sides to keep from marring it in the 4" four jaw chuck, and dialed it in on center to turn the handle area using various angles on the small profile cutters on hand. After removing it from the chuck a couple of hand twists with emery paper was all that it needed.






#61 I cut up my last piece of wood to make the base, and the base for a single cylinder engine. Time to order some more wood since all that I have is 'left overs' that are to small for the size engines I like to build. All that's left is to finish up all the pieces with files and sand paper, a little paint and polish, and then on to the final assembly. 






-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 20, 2010)

MB, 

Are them 3" or 6" parallels? Your lever and Wooden base turned out perfect. Can't wait to hear it sing to us. Sounds like that isn't to far away.

Nice job as always, Matt


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## ksouers (Jan 20, 2010)

Moving right along there, MB!

How did you like using the 1/16 inch end mill? 2 or 4 flute?


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 20, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> MB,
> 
> Are them 3" or 6" parallels? Your lever and Wooden base turned out perfect. Can't wait to hear it sing to us. Sounds like that isn't to far away.
> 
> Nice job as always, Matt



Matt, their 6" paralells. I didn't know they made 3". My vise is a 4", so the 6" hang out a bit. On the upside I keep dropping them and damaging the ends that stick out side the jaws,so it doesn't really matter.

Thanks, should be singing in a day or two. Running would be O.K. too! ;D

-MB


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 20, 2010)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> Moving right along there, MB!
> 
> How did you like using the 1/16 inch end mill? 2 or 4 flute?



The first time I used a 1/16" end mill I was tense to say the least more like petrified. I thought it was tiny. This time I got shook up halfway into the first cut thinking that it was too big to be the right size, I use a magnifier.

I used an inexpensive import from India, HSS, center cutting, four flute, double end, and 3/16' shank.

I go dead slow and cut .025" deep per pass in brass. On the valve lever five 3/8" long passes took about 30 seconds each. If I'm boxed in, like on a 'slide valve', I stick a straw in my mouth to clear the chips.

-MB


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## ksouers (Jan 20, 2010)

Hey, that's a neat trick with the straw. I could have used that today.

You're braver than me with that .025 DOC, I was doing .005 and thought I was pushing it when I went to .010.
I do the dead slow, too. I got pretty nervous the first time I saw the end mill bend


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 20, 2010)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> Hey, that's a neat trick with the straw. I could have used that today.
> 
> You're braver than me with that .025 DOC, I was doing .005 and thought I was pushing it when I went to .010.
> I do the dead slow, too. I got pretty nervous the first time I saw the end mill bend



That bending is no good! It throws the cut off at a right angle to the cutters path by a few thou, or so. Go slower, the bend says so. ;D

-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 20, 2010)

MB,

I first tried to cut some splines with a 1/16 4 flute end mill. It took all of 7 Min's to break 2 $16 end mills. That's when I discovered A thing call a Slitting Saw...........Live and learn, costly at times.. ;D

I have some 3" parallels but their 1/8". I can see where them thinner ones would be nice for the tiny stuff.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 20, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> MB,
> 
> I first tried to cut some splines with a 1/16 4 flute end mill. It took all of 7 Min's to break 2 $16 end mills. That's when I discovered A thing call a Slitting Saw...........Live and learn, costly at times.. ;D
> 
> I have some 3" parallels but their 1/8". I can see where them thinner ones would be nice for the tiny stuff.



Maybe you went to fast, or to deep? That will cause a problem! ;D

I was thinking about using my slitting saw, but decide to use the end mill instead. More set up time on the slitting saw than the end mill since the piece was already set up after drilling the hole for the valve pin. Its actually wasn't much of a cut for the end mill.

Put those thin ones on your 'priority' wish list. There's some good deals on E-Bay for about $23, I think.

-MB


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## ksouers (Jan 20, 2010)

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> That bending is no good! It throws the cut off at a right angle to the cutters path by a few thou, or so. Go slower, the bend says so. ;D
> 
> -MB



Yeah, when I saw it bend I backed off. Nuttin' but slow for those things, for sure. ;D


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 21, 2010)

#62 Finally, the project is done! I got side tracked quite a bit, and so it took longer than I originally anticipated. This was my slowest build to date. And It took 26 days from start to finish. Below are the final pictures of my modified version of Elmer's #52 Reversible Vertical Twin Wobbler. Thanks for your patients and support.






#63




#64




#65





#66 The video below was supposed to be a test. But I liked it well enough to post. My previos videos all have an orange cast and are generally out of focus. Not knowing anything about cameras I thought the 'video mode' would auto focus. On good advice from Dean (Deanofid) and help from my 'picture guy' I found and adjusted the 'white balance' that eliminated the orange cast, and overall improved the video quality. I hope you enjoy the video. Thanks for the advice Dean!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWGjAAH2hWQ[/ame]

-MB


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## 1hand (Jan 21, 2010)

You where busy this morning I see! Real nice runner there. Like the contrast of the paint, brass, and alum.
The lever turned out great, and very functional I see.

Congratulations, and job well done!! ;D

Matt


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## mklotz (Jan 21, 2010)

Beautiful work, MB. I particularly like the subdued paint you use on your models. It looks suitably machinery-like, yet very tasteful. (I'm of the school who thinks engines should not be shiny - buffers are for jewelers.)


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## Troutsqueezer (Jan 21, 2010)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Beautiful work, MB. I particularly like the subdued paint you use on your models. It looks suitably machinery-like, yet very tasteful. (I'm of the school who thinks engines should not be shiny - buffers are for jewelers.)



Hey, I resemble that remark! What comedian was it who used to say that? 

I can it see both ways. I used to love going to the Autorama (car show) and checking out the hot rods with their glorious shiny engines but I also like the mix of paint and metal grain look that MB uses. 

MB, you're a virtual machine yourself, cranking them out like the parts were off-the-shelf. Nice job. I'm still working on the Open column twin...


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## gbritnell (Jan 21, 2010)

Outstanding job Rick!! You're going to have to get off that, Oh shucks I just hack metal routine. Your work is up there with the big boys now. I agree with Marv, I like the finish on your engines and this one is real classy.
George


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## rake60 (Jan 21, 2010)

Beautiful runner MB!

I like the "real machine" look of it as well.

Rick


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## ksouers (Jan 21, 2010)

Great job, MB!

I like the way that runs. Very clean.

I also like the looks, another one for the "industrial" look.


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## BigBore (Jan 21, 2010)

I am in awe of the magic of these build threads. As a completely "metal ignernt" beginner, all I can say is wow, and thanks for the inspiration, sincerely!

Ed


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## Deanofid (Jan 21, 2010)

It looks just great, Rick, and runs like a top! 
Good machining, an appropriate amount of finish work, and proof of life make this one another winner.
Well done. Well done.

The vid quality is better too, but I miss the Doors. ; )

Dean


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 21, 2010)

Was just cruising through the posts...haven't had nearly as much time to play as I'd like...but your video stopped me cold.

Very nice. Beautiful. And what everyone said about the finish.


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## joe d (Jan 21, 2010)

Hi Rick

Another beauty! I still really like that ship-side gray :big:

Congrats,

Joe


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 21, 2010)

Wow! I'm overwhelmed by all the wonderful responses to my finished build, and I don't know what to say. ???

1hand, mklotz, Troutsqueezer, gbritnell, rake60, ksouers, BigBore, Deanofid, zeeprogramer, and joe d.

I really appreciate all the support and inspiration you have given.
With out this forum and members like you, I would not be progressing the way I have since joining. It seems that displaying my engines on this forum inspires me to try harder to improve the quality of my work. 

Thank you for your support! :bow:

-MB


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## tel (Jan 21, 2010)

Nice job MB, very tidy indeed


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## Maryak (Jan 22, 2010)

MB,

Another masterpiece. :bow: I wanted to say something original about your paint and finish style but everyone beat me to it. It's unique and absolutely complements you machine work - patent it before some downunder nerd copies it, (well they would if they could machine that well). 

Best Regards
Bob


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## 1hand (Jan 22, 2010)

Whats Next Chief............?


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## cfellows (Jan 22, 2010)

Another gorgeous build! You just keep getting better and better.

Chuck


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## kvom (Jan 22, 2010)

Another nice one. You'll have a complete Elmer collection pretty soon.


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 22, 2010)

Thank you, tel, Maryak, 1hand, cfellows, and kvom. :bow: 

I appreciate all your fine compliments and support!

1hand, to answer your question, I don't know what my next build will be. I need a day or two to regroup by cleaning up myself and the shop. I need to order wood, nuts, bolts, springs, bushings, and other such things. And to try remembering the things I forgot. I took a close look at myself in the mirror today, and WOW!, my face could use a good milling, and a hair cut would be nice too. Maybe I'll get them all cut! I look like a Werewolf! :big:

-MB


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## Seanol (Jan 22, 2010)

Way to go MB!

Looks awesome as always.

Looking forward to your next serialized build,

Sean


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## arnoldb (Jan 23, 2010)

Very nice job indeed MB; certainly no butchering in the completed job :bow: :bow:

Regards, Arnold


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