# Workshop Damp/humidity



## djh82uk (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi Guys

I recently built a new shed for my workshop (mill, lathe etc) and I have a problem with condensation, the mill gets soaking wet (bigger, always cold).

Now the shed is of wooden construction and lined with mdf and the humidity at the moment is 80% (been raining for last few weeks) and the mill is wet, I oil it regulalry but the oil emuslifies and it still rust.

it's really annoying as it's a new mill.  My old workshop was badly built and made of corrugated steel but I never had this issue.

Now do i need to better insulate it?  or do I need more airflow?

I bought a de-humidifier that seems to be useless, it only pulls water out of the air if the temp is above 15C, but is 5C atm.

Any advice?

Regards

DJH


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## lensman57 (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi ,

You have my sympathy, my work shop is in my loft but all my machines are small, Taig, sherline and a sieg X1 . A couple of months ago I bought a Myford Ml7 of 1949 vintage and due weight and size I  had to put it in my garage that has a metal roof with tons of gaps. It is always like raining on the inside of the garage and if I dont soak the lathe in oil and cover it then it won't last very long. I live in the north west of England and it is wet, cold and damp even during most of the English summer.

Regards,

A.G


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## djh82uk (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeh im in south wales, I just don't get why I did not have this issue in the old workshop, where it was always cold and drafty, which is what makes me wonder wether I need more ventilation.


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## OrangeAlpine (Dec 30, 2012)

Try using wax.  I use canning wax.  It is harder to apply, but does not emulsify and lasts longer.  

Our moisture problems do not compare to yours, but I have found it is much more effective to adjust the temperature than moisture.  That means heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer.  The air conditioning is much more effective at removing water than a dehumidifier, which, in the summer, just made the place hot.  First steps are to stop airflow and insulate.

My father had a lathe set up in a barn, the air movement was incredible.  So was the rust.

Good luck.

Bill


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## djh82uk (Dec 30, 2012)

yeh ive ordered a tube heater, low wattage but should help raise the temp a bit.

Thanks

DJH


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## Ed T (Dec 30, 2012)

I don't know what kind of mill you have, so this may not be applicable. You might try putting an incandescent lamp inside the base which will warm up the whole machine and keep the condensation down. Throwing a blanket or tarp over the whole thing will help too. This is a symptomatic solution until you figure out what's really going on with ventilation etc.


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## djh82uk (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeh thats a nice idea, I was trying to think how I could gently heat the machine, I have a Weiss WMD25.

My main concern with insulating and heating is wether that promotes mould what with it being a wooden shed.

Thanks

DJH


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## GWRdriver (Dec 30, 2012)

djh,
I can't know exactly what your conditions are, or if this will make a difference under the circumstances (although it can't do any harm.)  What many folks (including myself) use in cold and/or humid spaces is a small fan to circulate air within the space.  It need be only a small one, just enough to keep the air continuously moving about, and this will do as much as anything short of active dehumidification to inhibit the formation of condensation.

As for rust inhibitors, conventional "oil" just won't get the job done in the long run, as you have seen.  What is needed is a water-displacing penetrating preservative.  There are several to choose from, none are all that costly, and a large aerosol can will last quite a long time.  The I've used longest is called "CRC 336", but I also have some Starrett M-1, and another no-name product.


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## djh82uk (Dec 30, 2012)

Thanks

I will get a small fan up & running and see how it helps.  I was thinking I may need ventilation, but yeh perhaps I just need airflow, fairly sure I have an osscilating fan around here somehwhere.

Thanks

DJH


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## sssfox (Dec 30, 2012)

I have some of my equipment in an unheated garage and I have the same problem as you.  I found that if I cover the cast iron stuff with flannel sheets, it keeps the precipitation away while allowing the air to circulate.  I haven't had any rust issues for the past 10 years since I started doing that.

I don't know how my situation compares to yours, though.  I live on Tampa Bay in Florida, so most of my issues deal with moderate temperatures.  We only occasionally get to freezing.

Also, lately, I have had difficulty finding regular flannel sheets.  Most of them now come in a set of two with one being fitted, so it has elastic around the ends.  Come to think of it, that may not be a bad idea.


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## rcfreak177 (Dec 30, 2012)

Try this.

Its bloody good stuff.

http://www.crcind.com.au/soft-seal-corrosion-inhibitor


Baz


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## don-tucker (Dec 31, 2012)

Im from S.Wales and have the same problem,but find covering everything and large lumps of metal such as chucks are best put away in cupboards ect,but it is a constant battle,as soon as I oil everything up I need to use it.Flannel sheets sound a good idea if you can get them now.
Don


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## Goldflash (Dec 31, 2012)

I have the same problem with my old shed that gets the odd leak when it rains hard .  I found the best cover for the lathe is an old towel that has been used for mopping up spilt oil cleaning the lathe bed etc and giving the lathe a good spray with CRC or WD40 when I have finished using it. In fact I spray all my tools with it. When I need to use the lathe I always give it a good clean and lubricate all the grease points with a mixture of Graphite grease and engine oil mixed together ( Myford Super 7 ) and give it a good spray with CRC after use. It seems to work. The Lathe is about 50 years old now and still works well.


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## srgtherasta (Dec 31, 2012)

I have two small tube /greenhouse heaters, only 60w each. Under each machine bed mill/lathe. they dont warm the shed but there enough to keep the damp off them. You can get them on ebay for a few quid each. I live in n ireland so know yoour pain.


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## tonyr (Dec 31, 2012)

Hello
I also have the problem of damp in my workshop.
I couldn't stop my machines from rusting.
I now use a product called SteelGard, it is from a company called Vapor-Tek they are based in Bolton. 
You can find them on the internet.
It is a clear thin liquid so it doesn't affect you using the machines.
I applied it to my machines about 18 months ago and I haven't had any rust since.

Regards

Tonyr


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## Banjoe (Dec 31, 2012)

The cause of your soggy equipment is the high humidity condensing on cold surfaces. We need to reduce the humidity, raise the temperature of your equipment, or some combination of both.

If it's raining outdoors, adding ventilation won't solve your problem as it will just draw in more of that humid air that will end up condensing on the coldest surfaces in your workshop. Your idea of using a dehumidifier is spot on but the low room temperatures defeat the proper operation.

 Sounds like your workshop is unheated so it likely gets quite cool overnight. This results in all the metal work reaching the same low temperatures. Being wonderful heat transfer surfaces, these machines will then gladly allow condensation of all that pleasant moisture all day long. 


The easy fix is to just heat your workshop but I'm thinking that isn't a realistic option. Your next best option may be to keep the surfaces of your equipment above the point of condensation. You aren't looking at large heaters if you can 'tent' the equipment in small enclosures that trap the heat in a compact volume. A cupboard/closet type structure or a suitable tenting/shower curtain will provide the trapped volume needed. The heater wouldn't need to be very large as all you're looking for is to raise the equipment temperature above the condensation point so all that moisture will head somewhere else for a condensation party. 

Another option is to just bring all your equipment to bed with you - but this may not go over well with the household. 

Good luck

Joe


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## n4zou (Dec 31, 2012)

I had the same condensation problem with my lathe and mill. The fix was simple. Stop by a thrift store and purchase some old blankets and/or quilts. Moving blankets will also work. Put a 40 watt light on a lower part of the machine and cover the machine with a blanket and/or quilt. Depending on the size of your machine you many need two or more covers. The light will provide a small amount of heat and the blankets will insulate the machine so it will always be slightly warmer than the air in the shop. The machinery will stay nice and dry. If you don't want to use a light bulb or you can't buy incandescent  bulbs that have been banned in some places you can use water pipe heat cable. You'll need to glue it to the base of the machine so it's in contact with the metal and you need a small amount of insulation that will cover the strip insuring the heat is transferred to the machine. You still need to cover the machine with your old blankets and/or quilts.


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## djh82uk (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks guys, ive bought a bed sheet to try on the mill, I have a tube heater on it's way, im wondering if I can wall mount it behind the mill and have the mill pushed up against it?

I will also look into ways to coat it as above. and a small fan to circulate air.  Hopefully with all that something will resolve it.

I guess I need some wooden draws or something for all the tooling aswell.  really hoping to get started on a webster engine in there soon 

Once I replace everything that was lost in the move (verniers, micrometers etc  )

Thanks again
DJH


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## sssfox (Dec 31, 2012)

You may want to try only one thing at a time.  That way, you will know if something is working or not.

The heater should work fine as long as the heat gets under the sheet.

Make sure you are using non-detergent oil.  Detergent oil attracts moisture, so it will make the problem worse.


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## LongRat (Dec 31, 2012)

The reason your dehumidifier doesn't work is because it is probably a refrigerant type.  I use a dessicant dehmidifier over the cold months and never have a rust problem.  These are not sensitive to low temperatures.  Mine is made by Meaco.  They are also far smaller than most, which is important for me as my workshop is small.


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## djh82uk (Dec 31, 2012)

Hiya

I think this is a peltier type, do you mean the crystal ones?

Thanks

DJH


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## chipenter (Dec 31, 2012)

I to have problem with rust tried oil but that just made my hands dirty , been using waxoil spread a small amount with a tissue over the mill table , and clean off all ferrous swarf , and put as much tooling in drawers and boxes as possible , my mill is to close to the door to move it requires a major redesign and change round .


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## Banjoe (Dec 31, 2012)

That light bulb idea is pretty sharp as it provides a nice small heater at very little cost. 

I don't see the dehumidifier working in this particular application unless your workshop is very well vapour sealed and can keep the excessive outdoor moisture levels from finding a way in. Any leakage that the dehumidifier can grab will end up on the cold machine surfaces and you'll be back in condensate trouble again.

Keep us up to speed and let us know how you get this serious problem sorted.

Joe


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## robcas631 (Dec 31, 2012)

Is your workshop enclosed? Meaning completely weather free?


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## robcas631 (Dec 31, 2012)

Short of temperature variations.....water, air tight......within reason?


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## djh82uk (Dec 31, 2012)

I would say so yeh, it's one of these but have clad the inside walls with MDF and used outdoor silicon stuff to seal most joints.

It's one of these


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## mikegw1961 (Jan 1, 2013)

Tonyr

Do you know where I could purchase some SteelGard as I have looked on the Internet and cannot find a stockist 

Regards

Mike W


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## tonyr (Jan 1, 2013)

Mike
Look up Vapor-Tek on the Internet.
They are very helpful if you call them, they will post it out to you.
I think you can get it In 1 litre tins.
Regards
Tony


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## Banjoe (Jan 1, 2013)

djh82uk - you've sent me on a search for material specs on MDF and I found this site:

www.spanogroup.be/upload/docs/MDF-manual ENG LOW RES.pdf

On Page 15, they classify high humidity installations such as kitchens, bathrooms, and unheated garages.

Do you have any vapour barrier/insulation under the MDF?
Same material and installation method on the ceiling?
Floor? Poured concrete or wood structure above the ground?


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## djh82uk (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi Banjoe, I should have given more info.

Floor is made from T&G boards sat on top of pressure treated bearers on top of gravel.  Walls are T&G boards with MDF sheets screwed to the inside (for warmth and somewhere to fit the plug sockets).

Ceiling is OSB fibre sheet covered with roofing felt.  The roof is the worst part I think and may upgrade it in the future.

Thanks

DJH


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 1, 2013)

this may be a crazy question but do have insulation with vapor barrier. 

Tin


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## djh82uk (Jan 1, 2013)

Hiya, no insulation, and not sure I could do anything now as the workbenches are fitted to the inside of the shed.  There is just a weed/damp canvas below the gravel.  it's never sitting in water and has airflow beneath it.

I did not insulate it as it gets warm very quickly and stays warm for a while, im guessing because of the mdf inner skin (air being fairly good insulator etc)

Thanks

DJH


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 1, 2013)

a plastic sheet under the shed should be your first order of business..
Tin


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## Banjoe (Jan 1, 2013)

You're thinking that the roof is the worst part but it may be the best vapour barrier surface of your workshop. Checking on the characteristics of MDF, there seems to be very little impermeability built into this material so water vapour will transfer through it quite easily. There are also the gaps between the sections that give moisture even more opportunities to join up with your beautiful machines.

Sitting over soaking ground is another major invitation to dampness to come join the party. Door and window seals I expect aren't the same quality as on the main house so there will be water contributions around these necessary holes in your walls. 

To stop, or at least substantially reduce moisture entering from the damp outdoors will require the installation of impervious surfaces on the walls, floors, and potentially ceiling. Doors and window gaskets/seals would also be needed to reduce these contributions. At the end of all this work and expense, there will still be very high humidity levels in your shop and this will result in the same condensation issues you're seeing on your favourite machinery. 

I live in a location that gets quite cold in the winter (the middle of Canada) so insulation & vapour barriers are standard construction features to keep moisture transfer from freezing inside walls and causing serious problems. The good thing about our winters is that there is almost no moisture left in outdoor air so we don't get the cold damp issues during the winter (but we do get to shovel our rain). The cold/damp days are quite few so we don't see your issues for many days of the year 

I'm still leaning to raising the temperature of your equipment above the point of condensation. If you can't go with heating the entire workshop, the suggestion of tenting & light bulb heating is an excellent and economical way to reduce and hopefully entirely eliminate your problem. If the bulbs don't have the capacity to maintain needed temperatures, you will need to increase the heater size until the needed temperature is achieved. 

Another long shot option is to convert your bedroom to a new workshop but I expect if you even suggest this, you may find yourself sleeping in your workshop, so let's just keep this idea between ourselves. 

Joe


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## djh82uk (Jan 1, 2013)

Yeh im afraid all tools are limited to to the shed .

I understand sealing the shed would be an advantage but I just do not have the funds for it.  The floorboards are sealed with spirit based treatment and the water just runs off it like wax, as is the outer shell.  Would it help to seal the inside floor with a thick glossy floor paint?

I am going to try a tube heater in contact with the mill and see how that goes to begin with, as well as covering the machines when not in use.

Now that the shed is built, I see no easy way to further seal it.  Pretty much every structural join is sealed with silicon and it does retain heat very well and I never feel any drafts etc.

DJH


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## Banjoe (Jan 1, 2013)

DJH -  I would suggest that you give up trying to seal your workshop. The cost and time isn't worth it as the results of a retrofit won't meet your needs of a significantly vapour sealed building. I have to suggest that you go with the equipment heating option to keep your friends moisture free and living happily ever after. 

You didn't mention insulation in your building description. Is there anything installed in the walls/floor/roof in the way of insulation?

I'm still trying to imagine a long cool damp winter and I'm not sure how it would measure up against our bitter cold & dry winters. After 50 years of parking outside, I've just built a garage so I can park indoors for the winter. No heat yet but have 6" of fibreglass and 2" of styrofoam insulation on the walls along with the absolutely necessary 6 mil vapour barrier. Have installed in floor heating tubing but don't have the boiler installed yet. 

But enough about me, we still need to get your machine lineup in order and happy again. I expect you have sufficient electrical power in the workshop for any level of electric heat. Have you tried the light bulb trick yet?


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## djh82uk (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi banjoe, powers not an issue, I have 16 & 32A outlets.  I have bought this which should be here any day now, im going to wall mount it behind the mill so that the vertical column rests against it and will see how it goes, otherwise I will try the lightbulb idea.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120934837655?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Im also covering the machine with a blanket.  I do not have any insulation but it really holds heat rather well.  it is 4 degrees in there right now, 10 mins with the heater on and it will hit 20 and stay above 10 for 2-3 hours.

Thanks

DJH


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## Banjoe (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi DHJ,

I didn't see heating capacity in the information so checked other sites listing the same heater. It appears that you're looking at 135 watts, which is a bit better than a 1000 watt bulb and likely safer and longer lasting than a light bulb installation. 

With your heat trapping blanket and this little heater, that pesky moisture will have to find another cold host to condense on. 

Although working with blankets and heaters and such will give you a few more challenges in the workshop, it should also end your condensing issues. 

Keep us up to speed so we can celebrate your success and hopefully resolve this same problem in other workshops. 

Joe


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## djh82uk (Jan 3, 2013)

Thanks Guys, as soon as the heater turns up I will give it a go and if it works employ the same methods with the lathe, bandsaw etc

Thanks

DJH


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## Banjoe (Jan 4, 2013)

Best of luck on this approach. The insulating value of your machine shop doesn't reflect the moisture impermeability of the structure. Two entirely difference activities are taking place to upset your mechanical friends. I don't see you getting an effective moisture barrier in place without some pretty expensive rework of your exterior surfaces so I'd let the building breath all the moisture it wants.....as long as it doesn't end up collecting on critical items

Your band of machine friends need good treatment and you're taking them down the road to a better life. You've taken a very positive and cost effective approach to managing condensation on your friends. 

Keep us up to speed so that we can learn from your experience or help you continue further on the path to machine happiness.

Joe


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## Borris (Jan 4, 2013)

Dear Members:

I found this product on the internet:

*Zerust®* - Rust protection and corrosion prevention products are available in a variety of forms including capsules, covers, draw liners and bags. Choose the option that best fits your needs. 


*All Zerust® products operate on the same basic principle* -- to create an invisible barrier of corrosion-blocking molecules around your valuable metal item. Exposed metal surfaces protected with *Zerust products* benefit from a *long-lasting shield against rust, tarnish, and corrosion.*

Does anyone have any experience using this product to protect a Lathe or a Milling Machine?

Steve


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## djh82uk (Jan 5, 2013)

Well I have installed the heater, it' sgets a little hotter than I would like but you can hold your hand on it for a little while, kinda like the side of a boiled kettle.

Will give it a few days and see how it goes.

Thanks

DJH


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## RManley (Jan 5, 2013)

I filled all the gaps in with rockwool or alike.  Haven't had any issue with rust as it slows the spikes in temperature change.  Im located in the midlands so have the same weather as you and have no heater.  Before christmas it was -5 during the night and 8 during the day and saw no moisture at all.  I will improve it further by adding a second layer to the windows when I get a chance.     





Rob.


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## Banjoe (Jan 5, 2013)

RManley - nice work going on and there should be no temperature problems. 

Are you installing some vapour barrier before the finished wall surface goes on?


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## Borris (Jan 6, 2013)

djh82uk said:


> Well I have installed the heater, it' sgets a little hotter than I would like but you can hold your hand on it for a little while, kinda like the side of a boiled kettle.
> 
> Will give it a few days and see how it goes.
> 
> ...


DJH:

What type of cover did you use on your machine after you installed the tube heater?  Let us know how this works for you. 

Regards,

Steve


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## djh82uk (Jan 7, 2013)

Hiya

I just used a standard fitted bed sheet (asda smartprice £2 odd), and between that and the heater i have not had any condensation since.

The machine still feels cold to touch but maybe it's past the threshold, it is currently 11C and 87% humidity in there

Thanks

DJH


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## djh82uk (Jan 8, 2013)

Hi Guys

Just a quick update, ive been in to check the mill as it's been raining all day, it's 12 degrees in there and 87% humidity and the mill is bone dry and only slightly chilly to touch so it seems to be working great.  Also the heater no longer seems so hot to touch as I guess it is being drawn into the mill.

they sell the heaters in 1 foot long lengths (60W) which I think i will try for the lathe (7x12)

Thanks

DJH


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## robcas631 (Jan 8, 2013)

If it is sealed from the weather why not try a dehumidifier? It also creates heat.


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## metalmudler (Jan 9, 2013)

Hi, 
One thing to maybe watch for with high humidity and warm temps in a sealed shed is mold.MDF seems to be a bit like a petri dish.I once had an uncoated mdf shelving completley covered with mold.I wonder if there is anything suitable to wipe over to prevent mold spore attacks? 
Just a thought.


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## djh82uk (Jan 9, 2013)

Hi Rob, I have a peltier type de-humidifer but it only pulls water out of the air if the temp is above 10-15 degrees

Metal Mudler, that is my next problem, more so on the particle board roof where I have noticed small spots of mold (circa 2mm dia).  I was wondering wether painting it would be a good idea, or even just clear laquer/varnish?

Thanks

DJH


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## Alchymist (Jan 9, 2013)

djh82uk said:


> Hi Rob, I have a peltier type de-humidifer but it only pulls water out of the air if the temp is above 10-15 degrees
> 
> Metal Mudler, that is my next problem, more so on the particle board roof where I have noticed small spots of mold (circa 2mm dia).  I was wondering wether painting it would be a good idea, or even just clear laquer/varnish?
> 
> ...



Mildewcide paints:

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d...858,d.dmQ&fp=315b47759d0dad9d&biw=853&bih=436


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## djh82uk (Jan 9, 2013)

Thats really great, I will look into getting some and giving it a go


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## TorontoBuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

Hi DJH,

This is a very interesting thread on a subject right up my alley... and one that I have had similar experiences with. I am a building scientist/designer and I have over 20 years experience in moisture management and mitigation.

My father-in-law has half of his shop in a covered carport area which he enclosed, my business partner has his shop in his detached garage and much of my own equipment has been kept and used in an attached garage. Our spring and fall are very close in climate to the south of wales in the winter. 

You need to take a multiple strategy approach to dealing with moisture issues. If you allow the shed environment to be at equilibrium with the exterior environment it is a formula for disaster, over time most of the strategies discussed on this thread so far will fail to provide long term protection of your equipment.

The trick is to provide minimal control over the interior environment that is sufficient to bring the temperature and relative humidity within a range that will result in a dewpoint well below the temperature at which the equipment is normally maintained. So you need to provide some humidity control, and some temperature control.

It would be cost prohibitive to provide a major retrofit of your shed, however some minor low cost detailing can be very effective at managing the moisture infiltration. Some of which is due to vapour drive, especially from the floor system over the gravel pad upon which the shed sits. This type of construction is extremely susceptible to moisture vapour drive from the ground upwards into the structure. A simple moisture barrier will fix this. You don't need expensive paint, just look for a moisture barrier rated latex primer. Do the walls as well then finish with another coat of regular paint to protect the primer from wear. 

Next address the moisture load that enters the shed from air infiltration... simply check that the shed is well caulked, and providing good weatherstripping on the doors and windows. If you don't slow the infiltration of moisture from outside the shed dehumidification will not help since the moisture load from outside air leaking into the shed will exceed the small capacity of the typical dehumidifier. So if you cannot slow air leakage do not bother with the dehumidifier.

However, I doubt this alone will provide totally adequate protection... because on rainy days the humidity and temperature combination will likely result in much of your equipment being at or below the dew point. 

It is great that you are heating the equipment. Radiant heat is the best way to heat since it heats the mass of equipment directly and most efficiently... electric baseboard does not provide true radiant heating since it relies mostly on creating convection air currents to circulate the heat. Infra-red tube style heaters are best for a shop environment and cover a lot of territory.

I don't think you have enough heat to maintain the temp of your equipment above the dew point for those days colder than 12° C, even in the conditions you describe where the mill feels warm and you cannot feel moisture on the equipment, there is a high risk. 

See image 1...

You will see from the chart that the RH is too high resulting in a dew point that is too high and potential risk for metal corrosion. To provide adequate protection you need more heat into the equipment and lower humidity both.  

Circulation helps by helping evaporate any slight condensation there may be, so covering equipment will impede evaporation when you have some radiant heating. Some air movement is good if it doesn't cost too much to operate. 

I did a heat loss calculation for my attached garage and determined that I needed to use two 1.5 KW ceramic radiant heaters with a small fans inside to heat the garage to about 10° C, which is the temperature I need to maintain to lower my RH and dew point enough to prevent condensation for my conditions. I had a plug in power monitor and the heaters averaged about 24kWh a day, which over the course of the heating season cost me over $280 a year to operate. My space was small and attached to my home on three sides and designed to resist moisture infiltration so I had far less moisture to worry about. 

My friend with a 20' x 20' detached wood frame garage built in the 1950s required 5.5 KW of heating and therefore uses a natural gas fired infra-red tube heater in order to protect his equipment. The capital costs were higher but the operating costs were far less. Electricity would cost him $1500 a season, while gas only costs him $800. 

Of course, my friend uses his shop all the time, and doesn't heat above 15° C. Given his costs he chose to insulate half the space recently and uses tarps to seal off the other half which he doesn't use. 

Image two shows the minimum safe level to avoid metal corrosion at 12°, while image 3 shows the minimum safe conditions at 5° C. Image 4 shows the threshold between a safe level and unsafe level of RH... 56%RH is safe, but 58% crosses into unsafe territory... risk of corrosion.

Oh and yes do coat all surfaces of your equipment with a preservative designed specifically for protection from moisture... good suggestions have already been given here, so I wont add to this.


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## TorontoBuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

here is missing Image 4


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## djh82uk (Jan 10, 2013)

Hi Toronto Builder,

thanks for such an informative post.

I will look into the primer for the floor/walls and anti-mould paint for the ceiling.  There are no windows in the building but think I can improve the double door area.  The only issue I have is heating as I can see that costing me a fair bit, but if needs doing then so be it.

Do you mean this type of heater?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-IWMH2003-Infrared-Quartz-Heater-Wall-Mounting-2000W-230V-Heaters-Inf-/310435348401?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D130467636087%26ps%3D54


Thanks

DJH


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## TorontoBuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

DJH, you're welcome on the help... 

Yes that is a true radiant style heater. 

I don't know how large your shed is but I'd guess 8' x 10' or so?  I'd think that the heater you have there may have an output greater than what you need. You don't need to make the space habitable for people, just tools. 

Check out the following page of the Sealey Catalog... Sealey Catalogue - Heaters Page 2

I'd recommend model IWMH1809R - High Efficiency Carbon Fibre Infrared Wall Heater 1800W/230V. If you need more shop lighting the next model up (IWMH1809LR) comes with LED lights as well. They are on sale so your ebay seller is not the best deal try to find another Sealey dealer who will pass along the sale price.

Slightly less output... offers remote control as well as three output levels. Most times you will likely have it on low. Monitor the shed conditions to see at what temps you may need to turn the unit to a higher output. You should buy a cheap battery operated thermometer/humidistat for under £5 that way you can check a dewpoint calculator to assess the risk of condensation.

 Click to view Thermometer/Humidistat for sale at Amazon UK


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## TorontoBuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

Sealey Catalogue - Heaters Page 2


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## djh82uk (Jan 10, 2013)

yeh it is 8' x 16'

Thanks

DJH


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## metalmudler (Jan 10, 2013)

DJH,
The stuff i used is a paint additive called "VC175 tropical strength mold killer"

heres the link

http://www.floodaustralia.net/products/anti_mould/VC175.php

Trust me,it works.
I have treated a mold ridden and prone room with this and its been 5 years so far and there is not even a single sign of its return.
Yes it is Australian,no i am not just trying to help flog a product.


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## djh82uk (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks

I found it available in the uk for anyone else with my problem:

http://www.promain.co.uk/product/Owatrol_VC175_Tropical_Strength_Mould_Killer_id4207


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## metalmudler (Jan 12, 2013)

Yep,thats the stuff m8. I believe they have stockists in most parts all around the world.
Im pretty sure you will be impressed if you use it.
Well,i hope all goes well for you.I was going to say good luck with all that,but you wont need luck if you use this stuff..   

Paul


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## petep (Jan 12, 2013)

I can sympathise, coming from Tasmania. I recently built a (fully insulated) workshop inside my shed, painted the walls with enamel paint (to seal the moisture coming through the walls), laid vinyl on the floor (to seal moisture coming through the concrete) and purchased a decent/expensive dehumidifier. Initially I purchased a 'cheap' dehumidifier which was useless. All in all, I now have a dry/moisture free workshop.


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## peatrich (Jan 12, 2013)

I live in the UK and use ACF50 spray on my motorcycle to prevent metal corrosion and on the electrics.  Most bikers who use it rave about it. I found it also works on my ML7 that I keep in a detached garage that gets so damp a piece of paper left on the bench overnight goes soft. I am not connected with the ACF50 firm.
kind regards
Peter


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## peterw51 (Jan 12, 2013)

I had damp problems in my shed/workshop & I was getting some signs of rust on my machines so I installed a dehumidifier, this not only lifts the temp up a little and also cured the damp problem completely.


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## robcas631 (Jan 20, 2013)

Did I not say obtain a dehumidifier?


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## djh82uk (Jan 20, 2013)

Hi Rob, I do have a dehumidifer but it does not work below 15 degrees C, it is currently 1 degree in there.  Do you mean the compressor type?  As I don't think I can afford one at the moment.  I think my next step is to paint the floor so that it acts more like a vapour barrier, and then seal the doors a bit better.  Once I can get it better sealed i will revisit the dehumidifer option.

We had one in our house for a while after some flodding and I could hear the damn thing all over the house, I will need to get a quieter one than that as we live in a cul-de-sac and sound travels a bit too easily.

Thanks

DJH


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## djh82uk (Jan 20, 2013)

Also, anyone have any reccomendations for floor paint/primer that will act as a vapour barrier?

Thanks

DJH


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## TorontoBuilder (Jan 21, 2013)

Hi DJH,

I am sorry Britain doesn't have a vapour barrier paint standard or certification or market plainly marked vapour barrier paints, which would have made it easy for you...

Obviously, alkyd oil based paints are great barriers but lousy to clean up and have VOCs which will linger in such a small space long after painted. An alkyd garage concrete floor paint would be a good choice, another awful to clean but durable non-slip option are epoxy floor finishes with texture made just for garage and shop floor. 

On the easy cleanup side of things you have your emulsion paints, or what we in North America call latex. They come in two bases, the first is vinyl which is not very durable on floors and not moisture vapour resistant... so forget cheap basic emulsion paints... 

The next are emulsions based on 100% acrylic resins. They are more durable and water resistant. Two coats of a 100% acrylic emulsion paint should work just fine for you...  throw in some sanded grout mix into the paint and stir well. Apply with a roller and you should have decent non-slip characteristics as well.


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## Herbiev (Jan 21, 2013)

I am interested in these dehumidifiers but not sure if they would work in my situation   
http://pbckt.com/pe.Rj6gnV
In the summer it's ok but in winter with gale force winds the salt air is a real pain. 
Any advice welcome.


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## djh82uk (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks Toronto, will have a search and see what I can find over here.  I found one or two but they were £120 per pot.  I will look for the acrylic resin type.

Thanks Again


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## TorontoBuilder (Jan 21, 2013)

Glad to help out..

p.s. what you are looking for is exterior acrylic latex house paint. Look for 100% acrylic paint and not a blend. It shouldn't cost more than £30 a pot.


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## djh82uk (Jan 21, 2013)

Hmm, i found this thats quite cheap?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grey-HEAV...Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item5887a4f45b


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## TorontoBuilder (Jan 21, 2013)

That will work fine... nice price too.


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## fnation (Jan 26, 2013)

I think you will need to heat the space I have the same problem with my motorcycle. Its in a unheated shed.


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