# VW or Porsche Boxer Engine Plans?



## davidyat (Mar 1, 2019)

I have a love for VW type engines. I still have a 1967 VW Beetle as a driver for me. I learned my mechanic skills on my original 67 VW and have torn apart and rebuilt many VW engines. Are there any plans for model VW or boxer type engines out there? My first 
VW was totaled and this is an exact clone of my first VW that I found on eBay. When the
weather here in Indianapolis is nice, this is my driver these days.
Grasshopper


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## SailplaneDriver (Jun 9, 2019)

Keep me posted on your search. I too have been looking for plans but without success. I went to a local Porsche repair shop and started measuring a torn down 911 engine and may start down the road of designing a 1/4 scale but it will have to wait until I finish the L'il Demon V8.


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## ICEpeter (Jun 9, 2019)

Gentlemen,
I have a full set of a Brian Perkins VW boxer engine design comprising 19 hard copy pages. Please send private message if interested.

Peter J.


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## davidyat (Jun 9, 2019)

Peter, I’m at [email protected]

Let me know how I can acquire a set of from you.

Thanks,

Grasshopper


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## oldboy (Jun 9, 2019)

Hi all,
I to would be interested is building a VW Boxer engine, in the past I have owned both VW beetle's and 356 Porches during
My younger days, including a early 911 but these are all past memories now.

I would be quite happy to meet any costs, I am in Australia, that you would occur for copying and postage or transferring to a memory stick, which would be cheaper to send, or as a PDF.

Thankyou 
Barry


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## canadianhorsepower (Jun 10, 2019)

ICEpeter said:


> Gentlemen,
> I have a full set of a Brian Perkins VW boxer engine design comprising 19 hard copy pages. Please send private message if interested.
> 
> Peter J.


I would like to acquire a set of plans.
ny email is [email protected]
thanks


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## petertha (Jun 10, 2019)

Some info here but can't speak to drawings or plans
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8985.0
http://www.enginehistory.org/ModelEngines/Perkins/BP75/perkins_bp_75.shtml
https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=138852

re Porche
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/...yle-modeling-the-porsche-904-and-917-engines/


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## Donrecardo (Jun 11, 2019)

ICEpeter said:


> Gentlemen,
> I have a full set of a Brian Perkins VW boxer engine design comprising 19 hard copy pages. Please send private message if interested.
> 
> Peter J.


I cant find a PM button ?   but would be very interested if you could email me a copy of the plans, [email protected]


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## alcostich (Jun 11, 2019)

I, too, would be interested is the Brian Perkins VW boxer engine design.

Thanks.

Alan


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## toolingjim (Jun 11, 2019)

ICEpeter said:


> Gentlemen,
> I have a full set of a Brian Perkins VW boxer engine design comprising 19 hard copy pages. Please send private message if interested.
> 
> Peter J.





ICEpeter said:


> Gentlemen,
> I have a full set of a Brian Perkins VW boxer engine design comprising 19 hard copy pages. Please send private message if interested.
> 
> Peter J.


 I would also be interested in acquiring a set of your VW engine plans if you are making copies available. I too cannot find a PM option. Perhaps I haven't posted enough.

Jim


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## Cogsy (Jun 11, 2019)

Guys - Having a brief search online, it appears these plans may be subject to copyright (at least I cannot find where they are in the public domain). From another site : "_serialized in Model Engineer, starting 4th February 2005 and ending 27th May_". Unless these plans are free to copy, then they should not be copied and shared. It's a breach of forum rules to do so, but more than that, it hurts our hobby and reduces the likelihood of future designs/plans being produced (it's also illegal as well, of course). Please don't share copyrighted material here or anywhere else.


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## ICEpeter (Jun 12, 2019)

Hello all who were interested in the VW plans I have in my possession. In a nod to Cogsy's post, I am withdrawing my offer to share the VW plans I have with all the interested people that contacted me. I agree with Cogsy, when there are forum rules, they need to be respected. Thank you.

Peter J.


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## SailplaneDriver (Jun 13, 2019)

Does anyone know where the plans were published and if they are available from a proper source?


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## petertha (Jun 13, 2019)

I screen grabbed keyword hit = 'volkswagen' by Perkins. Not sure how you go about ordering the mags themselves. Let us know if  you pursue & have an answer. I've heard different opinions of Model Engineer back issues - digital only vs. hardcopy but maybe that's a function of era.
http://www.itech.net.au/modelengineer/me_response.php


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## ICEpeter (Jun 13, 2019)

Hello Sailplane driver,
You may try this email address that I used in my communication with Brian Perkins in 2005 when I purchased my set of plans from him. This email may be obsolete but its worth a try.
[email protected]
It is with deep regrets to report that Brian Perkins passed away this past April.

Peter J.


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## davidyat (Jun 28, 2019)

To everyone looking for the VW Boxer plans from Model Engineer. I did my searching and research and was able to get the 8 issues of Model Engineer that has the plans for the VW engine.Here's what you're looking for:
Model Engineer Magazine for year 2005
Volume 194 : Issue 4240 Feb 4 - 17
                         Issue 4241  Feb 18 - Mar 3
                         Issue 4242  Mar 4 -  17
                         Issue 4243  Mar 18 - 31
                         Issue 4244  Apr  1 - 14
                         Issue 4245  Apr 15 - 28
                         Issue 4246  Apr 29 - May 12
                         Issue 4247  May 13 - 26
I was able to find 7 of the issues on eBay and the last one on a British website for magazine back issues.
Grasshopper


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## DPowell (Jun 28, 2019)

Hello davidyat,
Just started purchasing these issues of Model Engineer myself. My understanding was that the VW engine build appeared in the even numbered issues 4240-4248. Can you confirm or do I need to buy them all in that range?

Thanks,
Doug


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## oldboy (Jun 28, 2019)

Thank you for the list.  No to find the issues.

Barry


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## limewood (Jun 29, 2019)

DPowell said:


> Hello davidyat,
> Just started purchasing these issues of Model Engineer myself. My understanding was that the VW engine build appeared in the even numbered issues 4240-4248. Can you confirm or do I need to buy them all in that range?
> 
> Thanks,
> Doug


I can confirm.
The series starts in Issue 4240 with the crankshaft and finishes up in Issue 4248 with the carburettor.
Six parts, even numbered issues only.


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## davidyat (Jun 29, 2019)

Well, I'll find out when I start receiving my issues. This is from Cogsy up above:
"_serialized in Model Engineer, starting 4th February 2005 and ending 27th May_"
And from limewood above:

starts in Issue 4240 with the crankshaft and finishes up in Issue 4248 with the carburettor.
Six parts
If limewood is right starting with 4240 and ending with 4248 (even number issues), then issue 4240, 4242, 4244, 4246 and 4248 adds up to 5 issues not 6.
So like I said, I'll wait until I get my 8 issues and report to all as to what I've received.
Grasshopper


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## Stichnz (Jun 29, 2019)

davidyat said:


> I have a love for VW type engines. I still have a 1967 VW Beetle as a driver for me. I learned my mechanic skills on my original 67 VW and have torn apart and rebuilt many VW engines. Are there any plans for model VW or boxer type engines out there? My first
> VW was totaled and this is an exact clone of my first VW that I found on eBay. When the
> weather here in Indianapolis is nice, this is my driver these days.
> Grasshopper
> ...


The Model Engineer is the mag that I got my plans from . The VW is a great engine to build not too challenging and a good runner.
Stich NZ


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## Dr Jo (Jun 30, 2019)

If you know anyone with an ME subscription all of the magazines you are looking for are available in the on-line archive. The individual pages can be printed off as pdfs.

Jo


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## davidyat (Jul 12, 2019)

I've started to receive the Model Engineer issues for the VW Boxer engine. It looks like Limewood is correct. I currently have issues 4240, 4243, 4245 and 4246. The even numbered issues have VW plans and the odd ones do not.


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## e.picler (Jul 12, 2019)

Hi David!
Where do buy the magazines? I'm really interested on this engine.

Thanks,

Edi


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## davidyat (Jul 12, 2019)

I started my research by typing in the URL line:

Model Engineer Vol. 194 Issue 4240 to 4248

One site I found: http://recycledmags.co.uk/shop/modelling-magazines/2005-model-engineer-magazine/

Model Engineer is a UK / English published magazine. Your only hope is to keep searching the URL and eBay until they show up. I still am looking for Vol. 194 Issue 4248. Don't know if I'll ever find it.
Grasshopper


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## davidyat (Jul 12, 2019)

I would like to start a conversation on this copyright controversy concerning the VW Boxer plans. And I'm asking Cosgy to comment on this. OK, I have found 4 of the 5 issues of the Model Engineer magazine with the VW plans. I purchased the magazine issues and I own them. Are you saying I can't copy the plans for my personal use? I paid for the magazines so I own them. According to Cogsy, if you can't find the magazines to purchase and 97 other people have them and won't sell the magazines to you, then you're out of luck to build a VW Boxer unless you can find someone to sell their magazine copies to you? This doesn't sound logical. OK, then, how about I copy the plans from my purchased magazines, then sell my magazines to someone for 1 penny + postage. They now own them, make copies of the plans and sell the magazines back to me for a penny plus postage. Do you see how silly and absurd this sounds? I'm sure copyright's are there to protect the originator of the plans from someone who copies the plans and charges money for them. But if I copy the plans from "my" issue and just give them to my neighbor, who's a machinist and don't charge any money for the copies, did I just break the law? The issues are out of print and if no issues exist in the world, are we all out of luck on building a VW Boxer engine? I just looked at the publisher's page. It states, "The Publisher's written consent must be obtained before any part of this publication may be reproduced in any form whatsoever, including photocopiers, and information retrieval systems". OK, I'm going to e-mail the publishers of Model Engineer and ask them for permission to copy the plans and just give them to any one who asks for them. Just pay for the postage. I don't want any money for the plans.
Grasshopper


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## oldboy (Jul 12, 2019)

Very interested in the reply.  Maybe someone with interlectural property law knowledge may like to offer comments

Barry


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## Cogsy (Jul 13, 2019)

First up - I'm not a lawyer and my comments are my personal understanding and opinions only, gleaned from a reasonable amount of online research.

Now, most copyrights are covered under 'fair use' and would likely allow for personal copies (such as backups or working documents) to be made if you have a legal right to the original (as in you currently own the original magazine and you want workshop copies of the plans). If you were to give or sell the magazine to anyone, for any price, you no longer own the right to use that material and the copies you made are no longer legal for you to possess and you must dispose of them. Similarly, if your neighbour makes copies from the magazines he purchased from you (which is legal) and then sells the magazines back to you, he now needs to dispose of his copies as he now has no legal right to own them.

If you make a copy of the copyrighted plans and give them to anyone, regardless of that persons' usage of the plans, yes, you are breaking the law.

A lot of plan sets, as mentioned previously, only allow for one engine to be produced from each plan set. This means that if you buy a set of plans with this condition, then build an engine from them, you are breaking the law if you then on-sell the plans to another person. I have no idea what the exact terms the magazine was sold under so not sure if this applies to this publication, but it is a common clause on many plan sets.

What most people seem to have issues with is the 'but it's out of print' bit. Categorically YES, copyright still exists after the item in question goes out of print and extends for a very long time (it varies somewhat depending on the media type and the date it was produced). People seem to be concerned that access to such items is going to be lost (and it may well be lost) and consider they're not hurting anyone by breaking the copyright on such an item. Now consider the recent case of Ron Colonna's Offy book/plans. This book is out of print and (as far as I know) will likely never be reprinted, so some builders decided to disregard copyright law and try and copy/share the plans, obviously thinking they weren't hurting anyone. As it turns out, Ron was in the process of producing an electronic version of this material and would have suffered substantial loss if his plans has been disseminated to the public domain. 

We simply cannot know what the current copyright holders of these "obsolete" plans have in mind, now or in the future. They may be lost forever, or stored for future use, or possibly being compiled into a new publication. We don't own these copyrights and we cannot make decisions on what is to happen with them just to satisfy our own selfish desires. Surely no-one here would attempt to breach the copyright and share one of the plans designers such as Brian Rupnow or George Britnell sell so why are the rights of these unknown copyright holders not held to the same standard?

My suggestion - if there's so much interested in the plans for this engine, then there's an opportunity for someone to create a high quality, original plan set for this engine and sell it themselves. Now if that sounds like a lot of work or just too difficult (which I wouldn't disagree with) then consider how ethical it is to steal the existing product from the person who did do the work.


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## davidyat (Jul 13, 2019)

This is from Model Engine Maker. "Last month we lost a fellow Model engine maker and ICEBG member Brian Perkins". The post is dated April 4, 2019. Brian is the creator of the VW plans. I have already sent an e-mail to Model Engineer Magazine in the UK, asking for permission to copy the plans. I will try to contact the Brian Perkins estate in England, also, to see if I can get permission. There must be some way for all the modelers here to get these plans "legally" so they can build the engine. I just don't know how. I will always respect the rules of this forum and would NEVER do anything unethical. I just think it's so sad that someone who wants to build a model like this, can't, because they are unable to obtain the plans. If I get any more information on this problem, I will let everyone know.
Grasshopper


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## Rotormac (Jul 13, 2019)

My understanding of copyright is that publishing plans (as in ME) puts them in the public domain.
Open to correction here,
Rotormac.


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## Dr Jo (Jul 13, 2019)

The owners of the ME magazine will have purchased the publishing rights from Brian and if you photocopy their magazine or copy and extract the drawings from their article you are breeching their copyright.

I don't recall Brian actually publishing any of his plans as large drawings separately from the mags. The copyright of those drawings would be held by his estate (son) and goes for 70 years....

Jo

P.S. ME mags were selling at £1 per volume at the last show I went to.


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## davidyat (Jul 13, 2019)

Responding to Dr. Jo. Since ME has the rights to Brian's plans now, I have sent an e-mail to them requesting permission to copy and share (not sell) the plans with others. I will keep everyone informed if and when I get permission from Model Engineer Magazine.
Grasshopper


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## Rotormac (Jul 13, 2019)

also, copyright usually does not preclude the construction of one item for personal use, usually it's to prevent commercial exploitation.  If the plans were sold as plans then it's a different matter.


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## Dr Jo (Jul 13, 2019)

You also should be aware than many people who publish their designs through ME mags miss out a couple of the parts I do not necessarily blame the original designers…  

Jo


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## Cogsy (Jul 14, 2019)

Rotormac said:


> My understanding of copyright is that publishing plans (as in ME) puts them in the public domain.
> Open to correction here,
> Rotormac.



Definitely not. Things can be disseminated in print, or electronically, without losing copyright. The easiest way to think about this is if we applied your method in terms of music - as soon a song is played once on the radio then if it becomes public domain people can freely record it and share it online. Obviously this is not the case. Copyrights are specifically designed such that copyright owners can distribute their materials with protection from illegal copying, this is exactly what they were created for.


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## Cogsy (Jul 14, 2019)

davidyat said:


> I just think it's so sad that someone who wants to build a model like this, can't, because they are unable to obtain the plans.



If you get official permission, from the actual copyright holder, then all will be well. I know it's frustrating but it's certainly possible these plans are lost and will never be available again. 

I fear the plans and castings for the Peewee and Pacifier V4's may suffer the same fate, with the copyright holder passing away last year. Unless someone from his family make an effort to do something with the copyrights and patterns they will simply disappear, which will be very sad indeed. I have a legal copy of the Peewee plans, which I'm working on my castings from, so I will have made the one engine that these plans entitle me to make. Of course I'll retain the plans in case I need to remake parts in the future (and for my records) but I will not be able to pass them along to other potential builders. 

This is the same situation you have found the VW plans in. It's possible that the copyright will never be exercised again but it's also possible that the new copyright holder will decide to do something with them at some later date. You yourself have proven that these plans still have some value in that people are seeking to obtain them. This inherent value is what the copyright protects.


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## Stichnz (Jul 14, 2019)

I see that Hemingway Kits UK have the Whittle v8 drawings and building instructions listed on the site ,£30.
Stich nz


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## Rod46 (Jul 14, 2019)

Stichnz said:


> I see that Hemingway Kits UK have the Whittle v8 drawings and building instructions listed on the site ,£30.
> Stich nz



I have these plans and am currently going through them to produce 3D Cad drawings, hopefully to build the engine in the near future.


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## Rod46 (Jul 14, 2019)

Rod46 said:


> I have these plans and am currently going through them to produce 3D Cad drawings, hopefully to build the engine in the near future.


Oh there is nothing missing from these drawings.


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## Rod46 (Jul 14, 2019)

Cogsy said:


> If you get official permission, from the actual copyright holder, then all will be well. I know it's frustrating but it's certainly possible these plans are lost and will never be available again.
> 
> I fear the plans and castings for the Peewee and Pacifier V4's may suffer the same fate, with the copyright holder passing away last year. Unless someone from his family make an effort to do something with the copyrights and patterns they will simply disappear, which will be very sad indeed. I have a legal copy of the Peewee plans, which I'm working on my castings from, so I will have made the one engine that these plans entitle me to make. Of course I'll retain the plans in case I need to remake parts in the future (and for my records) but I will not be able to pass them along to other potential builders.
> 
> This is the same situation you have found the VW plans in. It's possible that the copyright will never be exercised again but it's also possible that the new copyright holder will decide to do something with them at some later date. You yourself have proven that these plans still have some value in that people are seeking to obtain them. This inherent value is what the copyright protects.


Does’nt the copyright pass to the next member of the family, if there are any to succeed, until the copyright period has run out. I thought i’d read that in the copyright laws at sometime. But could be mistaken, have to take another look at sometime.


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## Rod46 (Jul 14, 2019)

Ah have now read an earlier post by Dr Jo and he already said this was the case.


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## Cogsy (Jul 14, 2019)

Rod46 said:


> Does’nt the copyright pass to the next member of the family, if there are any to succeed, until the copyright period has run out. I thought i’d read that in the copyright laws at sometime. But could be mistaken, have to take another look at sometime.



They certainly do, but the issue is whether the new copyright owner actually wants to do anything with the copyright or not (or if they even know it exists). If they just ignore it for whatever reason (don't think it's worth it, can't deal with it, just too hard, etc.) then access may well be lost. Some copyright holders, when they know the end is coming, make arrangements within the community to keep plans/castings available but in the case of an unexpected event it often falls to the family to sort it - and if they're anything like my family they may have absolutely no knowledge of the hobby or even about any copyrights they now own.


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## Rod46 (Jul 15, 2019)

I find the copyright thing interesting as regards the model industry. For instance as a aircraft modeller I have built a number of scale aircraft over the years, so by definition I am constantly copying somebody else’s designs, just in a smaller size. As copyright as far as I understand also applies to form, i.e. shape, if I then sell the design of my model am I breaking copyright law. 
  In the case of this particular engine it’s a small copy of a VW Boxer engine, in fact in the article Brian states he sat down with the Haynes manual in front of him and drew this engine. And it is clearly probably 90% a small VW Boxer, copied from the Haynes manual. So at what point does it become your design with a right to copyright, when you clearly have copied somebody else’s design with just a few modifications.
    So as I am now redrawing this engine and will probably make a few mods on the way can I rightfully or morally claim it now as my design with the right to copyright protection. I must stress I would not do this I would probably offer the drawings for free but it’s an interesting subject.

Rod


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## Rod46 (Jul 15, 2019)

Crankcase of VW Boxer, Righthand finshed Left not quite bu






 t I'm nursing a sore throat runny nose and spliting head for last day or two so not feeling like doing much at the moment.


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## Cogsy (Jul 15, 2019)

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I think it's certainly possible that if you were making and selling model aircraft that were good copies of actual aircraft, then technically the full-size aircraft manufacturers may have been able to pursue a copyright claim against you. Possibly that's why (at least when I was involved in RC aeromodelling) there were so few commercial scale kits available except for the really old designs (P51, Spitfire, Pitts Special, etc.). In practice though, I would guess a small operation would likely fly under the radar of an entity such as Boeing.

As far as the engines go, it may be a similar situation, where VW may have a case against the plan builder if the engine appears similar, if they desire to take action. Whether this would be successful or not is irrelevant to us. As far as we are concerned, the model plan designer has contributed a large amount of work, not just to sketch and dimension an existing design, but also incorporating the myriad of changes required to be able to produce a working model. Anyone simply drawing out a full-size engine and rescaling (say to 1/4 size) will run into all sorts of problems with material strengths/fastener sizes/feature sizing/etc. This design work is the hard bit and not many people have the ability or desire to undertake such a project. This is what their copyright protects and the rarity of these people in our community is why we need to respect those copyrights so they, and others in the future, will continue to make the effort to produce plans for us.

So, finally, if you're redrawing/designing from an original VW engine or a service manual or original blueprints or something like that, there should be no problem with you offering your drawings (as far as the model community goes). However, if you're simply redrawing an existing model engine plan set, then it's fine for your own use but would be breaching copyright if you distribute it. In this case, you have not added anything substantial to the body of work, and even if you were you are making a derivative work from an existing copyrighted work. Copyright certainly exists in this case and must be respected.


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## Rod46 (Jul 15, 2019)

Thanks Cogsy this is my first ic engine but I have built a few gas turbines in the past and have been in engineering most of my life, both model and industrial, I’m well into my 70’s now. So choosing materials and fastenings etc. not to much of a problem. This will probably run alongside a couple of other projects I have at the moment so no hurry here. But as this will be based on Brian’s but with a few mods I shall respect the forums rules and post no further drawings of the engine. My mags were purchased from Model Engineer at the time of there publication, just didn’t see it as a project at the time.
So could you please remove the previous post thanks.


I seem to remember a case some years ago, probably about 10 or so, when a RC kit manufacturer released a scale kit of then quite a recent aircraft. A few weeks later another kit manufacturer released a kit of the same model in the same scale. Needless to say the first manufacturer immediately waved the copyright infringement flag. If I remember on the grounds that internally formers and wing ribs etc. appeared to be in the same locations as theirs. During the case the lawyer for the second manufacturer raised the question as to wether the first manufacturer had sought permission from the aircraft manufacturer to produce their kit if not how could they pursue for infringement when they themselves appear to have infringed copyright. What the outcome was I don’t know it all went quite after that.

Rod


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## Cogsy (Jul 16, 2019)

That copyright fight sounds just like what I was thinking - the full-size manufacturer hadn't been bothered about a little company making a model but the modelling company was protecting their design work in the kit. These days though, I would expect the full-size companies to be a bit more defensive of their products as well. Seems to be a  lot of money in licensing products.

As far as your drawings you posted - they're undimensioned renderings which doesn't violate any copyright at all and look to be quite interesting. You can continue to post shots like that no problem at all (and I'd be interested in seeing them) just stay away from dimensioned plans and you'll be fine.


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## davidyat (Jul 16, 2019)

At this point on this blog, I'm sorry I ever started it.
Grasshopper


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## johnmcc69 (Jul 16, 2019)

Grasshopper,
 Don't be sorry you "started it". It's not only the bigger companies trying to protect their investments, but more importantly (IMHO) the smaller companies. Things like patents & copyrights protect "the little fish" from being eatin' by the "Bigger Fish". There are a lot of brilliant people out there (most of them on this site. , 

 I feel the pain of losing old designs & it is sad. But..there are some dedicated modelers (rod46 & others) that will pursue these designs & probably improve on them.

 So....it's good to talk this out & clear the air. & like I said, it's not all about the multi-million $ companies.

 Happy modeling,

 John


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 16, 2019)

David.

If there is an engine that is really hard for you to see go, be the guy that takes it on. Research the engine, even buy a scrap one and get out the tape measure. If you "do the work" then you become the protected little fish. You can then build one, prove it's a good design, and sell the drawings to others who would like to build one. No worries about copyrights, you can do whatever you want with the material. Just because someone does a drawing set for a big block chevy doesn't mean you can't also as long as it is truly done my you.

Here's another thing to think about. If there is a kit or drawing set that you like, don't wait. Buy the castings or get those drawings. Every engine that is offered today has an expiration date and nobody knows what that date is. When the author's time is up, it's up. Get them while you can.


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## davidyat (Jul 17, 2019)

Thanks for the positive reinforcement.
Grasshopper


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## Rod46 (Jul 21, 2019)

Done a bit more.


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## davidyat (Jul 21, 2019)

Rod46,

   Just out of curiosity, why are you CAD drawing a VW engine? As Cogsy says, if you don't put dimensions in it, you're all right. I love your work. If you put in your own dimensions, aren't these drawings your own to do with as you please? I've gotten the first 4 issues of Model Engineer with Brian Perkins' VW engine plans. I'm a little underwhelmed at what I see. Not much there. Seems like each issue has about 1 1/2 pages of text and 1 1/2 pages of drawings. I'll evaluate my interest in making Brian's model. If I don't want to make it, I'll just put the issues up for sale here. If somehow, you end up with a legal set of plans for the VW, then I would see about getting a set from you.
Grasshopper


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## Rod46 (Jul 21, 2019)

Not sure if I’ll build it yet. I fancied building an ic engine because I have’nt built one before, done a few gas turbines, and I have a couple of other projects on the go so this wouldn’t be yet anyway. Also much of it would be on cnc, not all, so cad drawings are useful. Yes this part of it is relatively simple but there is quite a bit more to it with pistons conrods cams crankshaft etc. etc. These are taken from Brian’s drawings so no I wouldn’t just dimension them and pass them off as mine. 3D drawings help visualise things a bit better as well and to be honest don’t take that long to do these days. Just doing these when I get a bit of time now and again and thought some may be interested. I have all five issues the fifth is only the carburettor. I used to take ME regularly but not these days.

Rod


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## davidyat (Jul 21, 2019)

Thanks. And your CAD drawing, to me, are works of art. I love how you are using color as they make the drawings really stand out.
Grasshopper


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## DPowell (Jul 21, 2019)

I have 4 of the 5 issues of Model Engineer related to this build and I agree, there was a lot if information left on the table. It really should have been described as a 4 cylinder boxer and not as a VW. That in itself would have eliminated the need for the previous copyright discussion. Those of us that want to build a scale VW engine will need to start from scratch if we want to include things like a distributor and cooling fan.
The real challange will be building a set of Weber 48IDA carbs in 1/4 scale.


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## Rod46 (Jul 21, 2019)

Grasshopper if I was drawing these sectional views 30 or 40 years ago it would have been a few days work but these were done in a few hours at most that’s why I don’t mind doing them now. As far as colours on the sectional views are concerned the cad/cam program does this automatically no need for my intervention unless I want to of course. These are done in Fusion 360 which if you are a hobbiest is free to use, and includes up to 5 axis machining cam as well.

DPowell I agree with what you say it should have been called just a 4 cylinder boxer. I think Brian just called it that because that’s where his inspiration came from, but it really is just a basic boxer. To turn it into a scale VW engine would require a lot more design and work. But that’s why I considered building it because it wasn’t to complicated for a first I.C. engine, and at about 1/3 scale wasn’t to small. However I am considering a few alterations to make it look a bit more like a VW without over complicating it. But we’ll see how it goes. Edit oh you have to bare in mind Brian wanted this for a model aircraft so things like cooling fans weren’t relevant and as usual weight is always a consideration with aircraft, although I think quit a bit of weight could be shed from this engine.

Rod


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## Rod46 (Jul 21, 2019)

Grasshopper I should perhaps add that I select the colours and material types for each of the components but when you create a sectional view you can leave the colour of the hatching to the cad if you wish, and it does it very well as you can see. And it takes just a few seconds to create a section of your model at any cross section or angle of cross section you choose all quick and very easy. But as always with 3D cad it can be a bit of a learning curve at first.

Rod


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## johnmcc69 (Jul 21, 2019)

That's really nice work Rod. Will you continue with the rest of the design? Doesn't matter if it's VW, Porsche, whatever. 

 John


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## corrad (Jul 23, 2019)

ICEpeter said:


> Gentlemen,
> I have a full set of a Brian Perkins VW boxer engine design comprising 19 hard copy pages. Please send private message if interested.
> 
> Peter J.


Hi Peter J,  I am interested in obtaining the said set of plans /drawings. Please contact me on [email protected]


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## davidyat (Jul 24, 2019)

Corrad,

   I highly suggest you go back to page 1 and read this whole blog. I didn't know I'd learn a lot about copyright laws. To be legal, you have to OWN the magazine, have permission from the magazine publisher or have permission from Brian Perkins, to make a copy for yourself to make this model. Brian has passed away in March of this year. According to Cogsy, if you purchase the Magazine Set (5 issues), you can make copies so you can make ONE model. And after you make your model and IF you sell your magazine set, you have to destroy your copies of the plans as you don't have the issues in your possession. That's how I interpret the legality of this issue. With that being said, after I received all my issues, to me, the plans are lacking and I probably won't be making this model. As a side note, I found a NON working, plastic resin VW engine kit that really looks good and I think I'll get this model just to have it sitting on my desk. Here's the web site for The Weedub:
http://www.theweedub.com/
Grasshopper


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## mu38&Bg# (Jul 24, 2019)

There is nothing in copyright law stating that only one unit can be built from a plan in the US. That would be the same as saying you can only cook each recipe once from a recipe book. Or you can only read a book once. You guys must be kidding. A casting set is the best practical means to limit production to a single unit if that is the authors intent.

https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/matters/matters-9509.html

"One limitation on the copyright on engineering drawings is that it does not, in general, give the copyright owner the right to prevent a third party from creating a utilitarian object in accordance with the drawing so long as no unauthorized reproductions of the drawings are made. For example, engineering drawings relating to a highway sign could not be copied without violation of the copyright, but the copyright would not be infringed by a third party constructing a sign in accordance with the drawings. Part of the rationale for this approach is that the copyright system is a registration system that requires merely compliance with the formalities of the statute in order to obtain a copyright. Unlike patent applications, obtaining a copyright does not involve a rigorous investigation of prior art and an examination of the utility, novelty, and unobviousness of the work with respect to the prior art. An author merely needs to have a nominal amount of uniqueness to obtain a copyright. As a result of the differences in these two systems, it was not deemed desirable to give the equivalent of patent protection through the copyright."


If you want people to support the hobby, just say so. Sending some money to repay someone who put a significant amount of time into producing something of value is a fair way of thanking them and could incentivize them to produce more. Being honest and direct will go much further than boilerplate or unenforceable agreements.


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## davidyat (Jul 24, 2019)

dieselpilot,
  I cut and pasted this from Cogsy's response on page 2 of this blog:

"Now, most copyrights are covered under 'fair use' and would likely allow for personal copies (such as backups or working documents) to be made if you have a legal right to the original (as in you currently own the original magazine and you want workshop copies of the plans). If you were to give or sell the magazine to anyone, for any price, you no longer own the right to use that material and the copies you made are no longer legal for you to possess and you must dispose of them."
And also this:
"A lot of plan sets, as mentioned previously, only allow for one engine to be produced from each plan set. This means that if you buy a set of plans with this condition, then build an engine from them, you are breaking the law if you then on-sell the plans to another person."
Please comment on his responses.
Grasshopper


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 24, 2019)

dieselpilot said:


> There is nothing in copyright law stating that only one unit can be built from a plan in the US.



That is correct but it is a condition stated in many drawing sets and the VW plans may be one of them. Most people put that condition in to prevent the buyer from building many copies for sale. If you want to sell 100 engines you would need to pay the amount that 100 sets of drawings would cost to the author. Then of course you would need to build the engines. If that condition is not stated in the drawings then you can build as many as you want. Most also have a provision to allow copies for shop use. My drawings had that language on page 2. If you purchase the drawings you are agreeing to the terms on page 2. If you don't agree then simply pass and purchase something else. 

I think that might have been a condition set up by the magazine and not from copyright law.


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## Cogsy (Jul 24, 2019)

+1 on what Steve said and also, as I stated in the piece of quoted text that got snipped out of that quote, I don't know if there is any such condition in the magazine but I mentioned it because many other plans sets have that condition and it's worth noting. I never meant that this condition was somehow incorporated into copyright law.

+1 on the sentiment from dieselpilot too - support the hobby and be honest and fair. In my mind there's no amount of 'want' that can justify breaking copyright.


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## mu38&Bg# (Jul 24, 2019)

Cogsy said:


> Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I think it's certainly possible that if you were making and selling model aircraft that were good copies of actual aircraft, then technically the full-size aircraft manufacturers may have been able to pursue a copyright claim against you. Possibly that's why (at least when I was involved in RC aeromodelling) there were so few commercial scale kits available except for the really old designs (P51, Spitfire, Pitts Special, etc.). In practice though, I would guess a small operation would likely fly under the radar of an entity such as Boeing.



Copyrights don't apply if you are drawing a small version of a something. Though it's possible Chapter 13 applies to scale models.https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap13.html  What does apply though is trademark. Nobody will let you use their name to market your model. You can design a Dreamliner model, but not use the name. I don't know how much they charge or if they do, but they will come after you. This did happen with Boeing in the RC industry about 15 years ago. In some cases people did get licensed, and I don't think the fee's were ridiculous and the benefits as I understood were excellent(think like accurate outline drawings, etc.).


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## davidyat (Jul 25, 2019)

To reiterate from my earlier post, this is from the publisher's page of Model Engineer Magazine, "The Publisher's written consent must be obtained before any part of this publication may be reproduced  in any form whatsoever, including photocopiers and information retrieval systems". I wrote to them and am still waiting for a response.
Grasshopper


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## cds4byu (Jul 25, 2019)

If you want to design your own VW replica engine, you might want to look at this thread on TheSamba.  It has very detailed photos of an engine rebuild; I'm pretty sure you can at least estimate the dimensions closely enough to get a reasonable model replica.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451260

Carl


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## Jasonb (Jul 26, 2019)

As I replied on ME forum you will need the permission of Myimemedia to copy and and circulate the articles and drawings as they appeared in the mag. You can copy pages from a mag in your possession for personal use only eg a copy to take into the workshop rather than damage the original magazine.

Now that I know Brian is no longer with us it is unlikely that you could track down his family and get permission from them to copy the original drawings if they even know of their whereabouts.

All is not lost, by taking out a digital subscription via ME's own site you will get access to the digital archive for one year which goes back far enough to include these articles. Again you can print of pages for personal use only

Back issues can be picked up cheaply in the UK but may be harder to find elsewhere, SIC back issues may be easier to find in the US.

It is worth pointing out that Brian's engine was loosely based on the aero version of the VW boxer so will need altering if you want it to resemble a car engine and redetailing if you want a scale replica rather something that was practical to use in a flying model aircraft.

Jason
(Moderator ME Forum)


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## Rod46 (Jul 26, 2019)

Jason your right it is LOOSLEY based on the VW. Reading Brian’s explanation in the mag I would say he did it the same as I probably. That is he scanned a sectional drawing from the Haynes manual imported it as a jpeg into his Cad program scaled it to his required size and basically just traced it from there making a few required adjustments on the way. Quit simple really but still requires some input of time but no where near as much as designing it from scratch. Apart from bore size being a little under most of the engine block is very close to 1/3. When all is said and done the VW boxer is a very basic engine wether real or scale and Brian’s is even more basic because of its intended use in a model aircraft using glow plugs as opposed to spark ignition etc. He did obviously run the engine but we have no idea how successful it was in the Colibri. I’m still not sure wether to build this yet as I have seen a couple of others that look interesting but would require a bit more  work obviously.

Rod


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## davidyat (Aug 5, 2019)

I got somewhat a response from Model Engineer magazine. It was from their forum. It reads:
Posting:
The copyright in the plans now belongs to his estate, presumably his family.
Copies may be available through Sarik Hobbies even if not listed on their website.
Neil.

I did check out the Sarik hobby website. They have a lot of plans for sale. I didn't see the VW plans listed and e-mailed them a request to see if the actually have the plans available. I'll keep you posted. Here is the Sarik website:
https://www.sarikhobbies.com/model-engineer-builder/
Grasshopper


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## petertha (Aug 6, 2019)

I tried entering their search box with VW, Volkswagen, Brian... no hits. Hopefully the response will she some illumination for you folks.

Not related to the VW quest, but I noticed some other engine plans people often inquire about.
https://www.sarikhobbies.com/produc...ng-railway-plans/internal-combustion-engines/


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## davidyat (Oct 2, 2019)

I've decided not to build the VW Boxer from Model Engineer. Instead I'm building a model from Australia called WeeDub. I bought one from this website, http://www.theweedub.com/
If anyone is interested in buying the 5 Model Engineer issues with the VW build, you can make me an offer at [email protected]
Grasshopper


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## ALCO-jim (Oct 3, 2019)

Hi Grasshopper -

I've been tempted to buy one of those WeeDub model engines.  I'm looking forward to hearing your review of that model.

    - Jimi -


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## OldToad (Oct 3, 2019)

Hi, am I correct that this is a pre fabricated kit that is none functioning


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## Shopgeezer (Oct 4, 2019)

The web site states that these are only models, not running engines. Might be possible to use some parts (like the VW valve covers) on a running engine.


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## Jasonb (Oct 5, 2019)

Cast resin kit with a bit of wire and photo etch for detail, The resin produces good detail without the need for injection mould dies so ideal for small volume production. display only

http://www.theweedub.com/page3.htm


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## petertha (Oct 5, 2019)

This sure brings back memories of my first car a '69 Karmann Ghia. I bought it for 800$ which cleaned by account & over time turned it into something nicer. Looked exactly like this one.
https://www.erclassics.com/volkswagen-karmann-ghia-1969-v6345/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Karmann_Ghia
The nice thing was you could just add displacement power by bolting on bigger jugs, +/- a few other countermeasures to keep it together LOL. I think mine was 1300 cc stock upgraded to 2000 cc. There were so many cool hop-up parts available, particularly west coast US vendors. But I was a starving student at the time.

Maybe I should have kept it. OTOH, I didn't define 'what kind' of memories. I was probably the only guy scraping the INSIDE of his windshield on cold Canadian winter days. It had a gas (as in gasoline) burning heater which made your left leg nice & hot but little else. I could only run it in 5 minute intervals before it started to huff like a steam locomotive. Windshield squirter was hooked up to spare tire pressure. Funny how things like this are always more humorous after the fact. But I digress...

Production of that kit is no small undertaking. Some background.
http://www.scaleautomag.com/how-to-models/2017/12/model-volkswagen-engine


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## davidyat (Oct 21, 2019)

The VW engine plans that I have are up for sale on eBay. Look for VW Engine Plans From Model Engineer Magazine. I've decided not to build it. The issues are in very good shape.
Grasshopper


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## e.picler (Oct 21, 2019)

Hi David!
I search for that but did not showed up.

TKS,

Edi


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## davidyat (Oct 21, 2019)

Thanks for letting me know. I just re-made the eBay listing. If this URL still doesn't work, let me know:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202804838217
Grasshopper


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## e.picler (Oct 21, 2019)

Hi David!
I now found it but, the E-bay says that does not send to Brazil.
I'm interested on those magazines. Could you sell it directly to me?

Thanks,
Edi


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## davidyat (Oct 22, 2019)

E.Picler,
   I'm sorry, but they have been sold to a gentleman here in the US. The only thing I can tell you is that I have the first 3 issues of 5 for the build left.
Grasshopper.


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