# Grinding HSS tools



## Tinkerer58 (Jul 10, 2013)

I have read a number of conflicting thoughts on grinding your own HSS tools all relating to over heating the HSS during the grinding process stating that it ruins the tool. To avoid this I am considering using my other grinder that I use for sharpening wood turning chisels. It has an ali oxide wheel that has a water bath under it to keep the wheel wet. I was going to modify it and make a suitable tool rest. The water bath should prevent the HSS from over heating. I would love to know your experiences and thoughts please.
I just hope this subject doesn't set the cat among the pigeons as it looks like it has potential for heated debates. Sorry about the pun LOL.


----------



## Swifty (Jul 10, 2013)

Should work well, most of the bench grinders that we use to grind our HSS toolbits have to also do day to day grinding of everything else. The grinder that you propose to use is dedicated to grinding hardened tool steel.

Paul.


----------



## Hopper (Jul 10, 2013)

Been grinding HSS toolbits on ordinary bench grinders for 40 years or more at home and at work and never a problem. Usually keep a tin of water next to the grinder and when you feel the toolbit getting hot on your fingers, dip it in water and swish it around a bit.


----------



## Tinkerer58 (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm just wondering the problems some are experiencing is to do with the crap Chinese and Indian stuff we tend to get a lot of here. Every foreigner that lands on our shores want to start a business importing their crap from their home country, seen an Indian run shop selling cooking pots, I think they were made from re-enforced tin bloody foil with with brass gilding on handles, absolute sht at premium prices.


----------



## Mainer (Jul 10, 2013)

If it's decent HSS you will have to work really hard to anneal it. HSS's big advantage over carbon steel is "high red hardness," i.e. even if it gets hot it won't anneal. Annealing HSS requires a temperature-controlled oven and a specific heating-cooling cycle. You won't come close to what is required by grinding it.

In other words, don't worry about it.


----------



## Swifty (Jul 10, 2013)

As tinkerer58 already owns the water cooled grinder, there is no loss in trying it out. I believe that most of the wood turning chisels are made from carbon tool steel, hence the care needed when grinding them. Made my late father a HSS tipped wood turning chisel years ago, really held an edge well.

Paul.


----------



## gus (Jul 10, 2013)

Hopper said:


> Been grinding HSS toolbits on ordinary bench grinders for 40 years or more at home and at work and never a problem. Usually keep a tin of water next to the grinder and when you feel the toolbit getting hot on your fingers, dip it in water and swish it around a bit.




Hi Tinkerer,
I agree with Hopper. Been grinding HSS till it turned blue and yet cut OK.
Been doing this as a 18 year old lad doing his Trade School in 1961.
Been using the Chinese HSS. They are not too bad though not as good as Swedish HSS. Too cool faster between grinding,I use cold water with ice cubes thrown in.
Now started using HSS inserts from Warner,USA.They are good stuff and worth every cent paid for though very expensive.


----------



## Paulsv (Jul 10, 2013)

If your water-bath grinder is anything like the Tormek grinder I use for my woodworking tools, it'll take all day to grind a lathe tool from a blank.  It is a slow moving wheel, with, at its roughest, a 220 grit finish.  I can use it to touch up an edge, but it is too slow for any shaping.  The little bit you can take off in a reasonable amount of time with it could be done on a bench grinder in a lot less time than it takes for the steel to heat up.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 10, 2013)

Hmmm I  would say there are a number of factors in keeping tools cool when grinding. 

M-2 tool steel is the standard.
added cobalt  helps with red hardness  but is also harder to grind. 
Quality of the steel - in general a name brand better than Chines import. 


The wheel 
IMHO norton is the standard for brand. 
I expect less from imports from asia.  
Gray alox is a general purpose wheel and the least desirable for HSS
but gray alox works fine .
I used import gray wheels for  years. 

White wheels are made for HSS and not terribly pricey.

The latest and greatest but IIRC 2-3 times the price is the new blue wheels designed to keep the tool cool and last 3x as long as a white wheel.

Green wheels  are for carbide .

wheel binder one does not need to worry about this just read above. 

wheel grit. Rough with a course grit like 40- 60  and finish wit 100-120 then stone with a oil stone. 

IIRC all whet stone grinders I have seen are for fine finishing  at low rpm fine stone and water cooled. Some have a second high speed roughing stone.

So advice buy the best tooling and grinding wheels you can afford. 

Will Chinese tools ground on a Chinese gray wheel work ? yes of course. will a Chicago Latrobe tooling or blanks from Warner tool  ground on a Norton blue wheel work better . Again yes of course but also expect to put out several times the cash. 


What I  use? I used import gray wheels for 12 years. that is what came on my jet grinder. IIRC about a year ago upgraded to white Norton wheel. 
Vast improvement but one needs to keep other famy members for uing them for general grinding. DAMHIKT
Bits I use everything from Chinese import to top america brands. 

If I had to pick one vendor for HSS it would be the Warner Company Latrobe PA. My favorite but more money than imports. 
Tin


----------



## gus (Jul 10, 2013)

A freshly ground HSS cutter will not give a good finish.Diamond honing file removes the rough
edges and sharpens to razor sharpness.
Together with dobbs of Tapmatic Tapping Fluid.at 600 rpm,1---3 thou depth cut and fine feed,I get good surface finish even if material is SAE Grade 5 Bars. 

Just bought a couple of Japanese Diamond Honing Files from TokyuHands,Osaka,Japan.TokyuHands is fatal to my pocket if I hang around too long. Just bought some quality four facet Nachi Drill bits.


----------



## lennardhme (Jul 10, 2013)

I use a bench grinder to shape the bit, then my wetstone Tormek to finish & sharpen. Dont need to hone as you wont get a sharper finish [ a boon on smaller lathes & for a top finish ] repeateable, & removes the min. of material.
Wouldnt use anything else.


----------



## robcas631 (Jul 10, 2013)

Well said Tin


----------



## n4zou (Jul 10, 2013)

The trick is never allowing the tool to turn any colour while you are grinding it. Grind a moment and then plunge cool it in water. Don't get in a hurry and take it slow and easy. If you do give it some colour while you are grinding it you'll need to grind that colour away as that coloured metal will not cut properly. Free hand grinding tool bits is an art that must be learned through practice and experience. While I was in trade school we were given 1/2" square, hot rolled steel which we ground into tool bits. If you ground it properly it would cut aluminium as well as real HSS bits would cut steel. We would grind our hot rolled "tool" bits and then cut aluminium with them. After the instructor certified our ability to grind tools we received real HSS tool blanks to use from then own. To this very day I still use hot rolled steel for cutting aluminium instead of HSS steel for several reasons. It cuts just fine, it costs a lot less, and it's so much easier and faster to grind than HSS.


----------



## Tinkerer58 (Jul 10, 2013)

Thank you guys for all the input it's really appreciated. The wet grinder does have a smaller grey wheel that runs at higher speed, the large white wheel is run through a gearbox. So with a few tool rest mods I'll use the grey to shape the tools and white to finish. I'll have a play with it all to see which gives the best results. I have noticed that the HSS from India is just crap, the Chinese is far supperior, but obviously US, European, JAP and Aussie HSS is just soo much better. They just seem to keep their edge longer.


----------



## gus (Jul 11, 2013)

Hi Lennard,

A wetstone is a good idea. Diamond files will wear off. Please advise wetstone vendor.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 11, 2013)

Gus I believe Lenard is using one of these he will have to tell you the model. 
the Japaneses water stones are dear at $250 each but with care should out last the operator.  

IMHO Sharpening supplies.com offer good value and ships fast htis is the place I purchased my Norton white stones. 







Tormek Sharpenter
This one pictured is about $380 plus shipping. 

Tin


----------



## cidrontmg (Jul 11, 2013)

Hi Gus, the Tormek sharpener is top quality, Swedish and pricey,  but there's also a German Scheppach "wet whetstoner", at
http://www.scheppach.com/en/produkt...-2500/backPID/werkstatt.html?cHash=cc0c7f0e79


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 11, 2013)

sears has the 8" version for $124 wtih free shipping to the lower 48  i expect. not bad. 

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00935878000P?sid=IMx20120601x002000-Tools-active
Tin


----------



## Niceonetidy (Jul 12, 2013)

I have been told by a commercial grinding house where I get special form tools that you can get hss steel very hot, but never quench. Aparantly it's not recommended for some reason.

Then fine finish the edge using an Arkansas stone.  They are super hard, and very fine grit


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 12, 2013)

The idea is to keep the tool cool while grinding through the methods that were listed. getting it hot then quenching can shock the metal.  

we do not want to get it that hot. like others have said hold in your bear hand when it start to get warm cool the tool.

Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 12, 2013)

Sears has the tiger 2500 model as well for $208 bigger wheel  10" and 3 times the power. 1/4 hp motor as apposed to the 1/12 hp. 
Tin


----------



## lennardhme (Jul 12, 2013)

Gus, Im in Oz.  Retailers are Hare & Forbes, Total Tools or CarbaTec.
Mine is a Tormek but there are others available. It will sharpen everything from a pin to an axe & various jigs are available. Would make an interesting shop exercise making the jigs. I have had mine for over 30 years - purchased before I got into hobby metal machining, & in that time I am on to my third stone [ used commercially ] so not a cost consideration. I would reccomend them to anyone. Not cheap but my favourite tool & has saved a lot of anxt over the years. I always know my edge tools are sharp, & that makes fo easy working.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 12, 2013)

I could say you guys are a bad influence . But that would not really be fair. I have thought about a wet stone grinder for a long time . and this thread has inspired me to order one. I ordered the Scheppach  10'' Wet Grinder/Sharpener System from sears.com . seemed to be the best overall value . Grizzly has a copy that is $30 dollars cheaper but when you add shipping and a tool clamp(included in the one I purchased) the over all cost would be higher so I am getting a German product cheaper than a Chinese one, go figure. My intent for this is more for knives and other edges but I expert I will use it for lathe and shaper tools as well. 

So for $212 delivered including tax and shipping to my house  (38 lb package ) do not think it too bad. 






Olli: Thanks for the info do not remember seeing the Scheppach brand before. And now have one on the way.
Tin


----------



## Hopper (Jul 12, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> we do not want to get it that hot. like others have said hold in your bear hand when it start to get warm cool the tool.
> 
> Tin



Which raises the question of how are people holding HSS bits when they are getting them red hot on the grinder? 
Gloves should never be worn when using a pedestal grinder or similar, as the fabric or leather of the glove can get caught between the wheel and the tool rest and drag your fingers into the wheel.

Grind bare handed and you will have no trouble with overheated HSS as it will require dipping in water regularly just to hold the stuff.


----------



## cfellows (Jul 13, 2013)

I use a 2" x 48" belt grinder with aluminum oxide grit to sharpen my HSS bits.  I take it slow and dip the tool in water frequently but the belt grinder cuts pretty fast.  A lot easier to set the angle against a flat belt surface than a curved wheel.

Chuck


----------



## gus (Jul 13, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> Gus I believe Lenard is using one of these he will have to tell you the model.
> the Japaneses water stones are dear at $250 each but with care should out last the operator.
> 
> IMHO Sharpening supplies.com offer good value and ships fast htis is the place I purchased my Norton white stones.
> ...



Hi Tin,
Went shopping for Sashimi Knives for my son. Found a Japanese Wet Stone Grinder and it cost a bomb--------US$600. Foto show a mall selling nothing but kitchen equipment. Sashimi Knives sells for 300-------300,000 yen.
All bonafide Sashimi Chefs must have one very expensive knife to measure to class.:wall::wall::wall:Bought my son a cheapy version at 7,000 yen.

Your captioned sharpener looks very tempting and I am drooling. No budget for now.Will have to work hard to make some returns on next portfolio of shares.Will K.I.V.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 13, 2013)

Well Gus as you may have noticed I ordered the Scheppach  10"  
about a third of what you are talking 
for $600 you had better get a Japanese water stone installed  top end motor and bearings and a sliver plated angle gage and yes gold plated contacts on the switch. 


the one I orders has a 250 mm alox wheel 250 grit a 200 mm leather hone wheel 
1/4 hp continuous duty motor . seems to be a good middle of the road machine and German made. 
Guess will have to do tool review when it arrives.
Looking at the pictures again the one I purchased and the grizzly look an awful lot a like. So is this German manufacturing or German engineering ?  the good thing is it appears the jigs are pretty standard and the jet, grizzly tormek and Scheppach  all use the same jigs. and likely wheels and other parts interchangeable to some extent. HMM



Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 13, 2013)

Here is the Hare and Forbes link for the above mentioned grinder. 

TiGer-2500-Wet-Stone-Grinder-250-x-50mm/35610/ $319 AUD including tax.
I want not looking for this link but since I found it thought maybe someone down under would appreciate it. 

Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 13, 2013)

Gus: My wife purchased me one of these  a couple years ago at the local Aldi food store.





now I can keep it sharp.Mine dos not have the japanese lettering on the handle. 
Tin


----------



## gus (Jul 13, 2013)

Hi Tin,
Sashimi was a very difficult cuisine to accept and like.As kids we were so ingrained about eating only cooked and raw food is
bad. My first mouth was like torture.Forced to eat raw fish.When dipped into sushi sauce laced with wasabi,it tasted good and different. The Japanese are so fanatically religious on their Sashimi Food Culture. Been watching them fillet and cut fish into smaller edible pieces.A Sashimi serving is so well done with minimal herbs.
Sashimi knifes are also religiously made with very fine grain steel. Sharpening is done by specialists at the Tsujiki Fish Market.The fish vendors have no time to sharpen knifes.Was at same market three years to spy/learn sharpening knifes.

 Here is my son's Sashimi Knife. Bought the cheapest--------6000 yen US$60. The edge is razor sharp.Knife seems bit too long(300mm) but right length to cut sashimi at one sliding stroke.

Today is our last day and tomorrow we go home.:wall::wall: There is a very nice looking 100mm Mitu Digital Caliper to look at.And the price is right.


----------



## lennardhme (Jul 13, 2013)

The power of the pen Tin.
I do hope the Scheppach is as good as the Tormek.  Look forward to your review.
I dont have any experience with the Scheppach grinder, but do have a Scheppach thicknesser which has given excellent service.
My woodworking equipment from a previous life gets good use again now as I like to incorporate wood into my engine models - handles, bases, framing  etc.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 13, 2013)

well at half the price of the tormek I expect some differences. I expect this to be at least well engineered. many of my power tools are DeWAlt they are imports but well engineered and well made. 
The next question is how bad to I need the tool holder set for knives axes etc. 
they seem to all be about the same price for a basic set $70. the IPB(Ilusrated parts breakdown)shows plain hat bushing bearings for the shaft but for 100 rpm use that should be fine. and if it gets used an hour a day on average I would be surprised. 
Tin


----------



## Charles Lamont (Jul 14, 2013)

Hopper said:


> Grind bare handed and you will have no trouble with overheated HSS as it will require dipping in water regularly just to hold the stuff.



I have seen the advice that it does not matter if you turn hss blue or even hotter and that you should grind it agressively. When it gets too hot to hold, pliers were recommended. But NOT to dip it in water as this causes microscopic cracking. It should be allowed to air cool (I suppose until you can hold it anyway). I have been bold enough to try this technique occasionally, and it seems to be OK, but I don't really like it.


----------



## gus (Jul 15, 2013)

lennardhme said:


> Gus, Im in Oz.  Retailers are Hare & Forbes, Total Tools or CarbaTec.
> Mine is a Tormek but there are others available. It will sharpen everything from a pin to an axe & various jigs are available. Would make an interesting shop exercise making the jigs. I have had mine for over 30 years - purchased before I got into hobby metal machining, & in that time I am on to my third stone [ used commercially ] so not a cost consideration. I would reccomend them to anyone. Not cheap but my favourite tool & has saved a lot of anxt over the years. I always know my edge tools are sharp, & that makes fo easy working.



Hi Lennard,

I visit my daughter in Glenhuntly,Melbourne and sister in Hornsby,Sydney every year.
Please advise names of vendors nearby these cities. Have not seen in Bunnings.If it is not too heavy will buy one and fly home with it. I dabble in carpentry as a young kid watching my uncles in their carpentry shop hand making furnitures.Till today I can't cut straight lines.Now cheating with a Makita bandsaw.


----------



## Tinkerer58 (Jul 17, 2013)

This is the grinder I have, it has gearbox so got the fast dry wheel and the large wet wheel running at much reduced speeds.


----------



## gus (Jul 17, 2013)

No budget to buy Tormek or the very expensive Japanese eqv,bought these diamond hone files and make do to hone HSS
for fine finishing cuts with Tapmatic Oil.. :hDe:
A DIY wet stone grinder will take up too much space.:wall:


----------



## Tinkerer58 (Jul 17, 2013)

That's easily solved Gus, get a bigger shed so you'll have room for that grinder you're dreaming of.


----------



## Sshire (Jul 17, 2013)

I originally used a 6" grinder with Norton wheels (don't remember what grit wheel but it was coarse) and it was fine. It did seem to take a bit of time, especially when removing a lot of metal for the trepanning bits.
Coincidentally, my HF 1" belt grinder decided that it had done enough and stopped working. No amount of fiddling would revive it. As I consider most HF stuff to be disposable (IIRC, with coupons, sales, etc. it was about $25) I was going to get another when i started reading about the Kalamazoo 1"x42" belt grinder made in the USA. Their standard motor is a Baldor.
Apparently, most of the knife makers use it exclusively and love it.
Mr. UPS arrived with it yesterday. Based on the knife making guys recommendations, I had ordered some Norton Norox (some ceramic-abrasive blend) belts in 60 and 120 grits and a few Trizact belts in 220 and 400 grit.
Fired it up late last night. I'm sold and finished with the bench grinder for tool bits. The 60 grit Norox removes HSS at an amazing rate. It seems that I can hold the bit longer before io have to cool it. 
Took a .25" bit from start to a thin trepanning bit in less than 5 minutes including a belt change to the 220 belt)
Mark me as amazed and a satisfied customer. I was contemplating replacing the HF bench grinder with a 6" Baldor. No need now.


----------



## Sshire (Jul 17, 2013)

Wait. I forgot to add this. When I was doing wood, I bought a Tormak wet grinder for chisel and plane irons. Its been sitting under its yellow Tormak dust cover since I caught this metal affliction. After reading all of the posts here I'm going to fill the trough and try using it (in fine grade wheel mode) 
to give a final honing to the belt-sanded bits. May even go completely around the bend and finish with the leather stopping wheel on the Tormak.
I'll report.


----------



## gus (Jul 17, 2013)

Tinkerer58 said:


> That's easily solved Gus, get a bigger shed so you'll have room for that grinder you're dreaming of.



Hi Tinkerer,

I have a better idea. Buy the house next to my sister's in Thornleigh,Sydney.It has a 2 car garage.Now to look for money. Make money from the market.That will be a cool A$600,000 minimum. If I park the car outside then I have a two car size machineshop.Sweet dreams.

Convert the Bosch Bench Grinder to take a worm/wheel gear box to take the water stone. Gear box will be DIY. Another sweet dream. 

So many options to look at acquiring a want and not a need.


----------



## Tinkerer58 (Jul 17, 2013)

Well Gus think of it this way, moving to Aussie would be good for you, good fishing, very mild winters and you wouldn't freeze your nuts and bolts off when in your shop during winter. No snow to worry about or rusty tools. We're happy to have you here Gus.


----------



## Swifty (Jul 18, 2013)

Hi Gus, don't try to hold your breath while trying to make money from trading, tried day trading for a while, it's hard work and very risky. I have a garage about 2 1/2 car size, workshop takes up about 1 1/2 car spaces, junk takes up the rest. Maybe we should get together when you visit your daughter next time, I don't live far away.

Paul.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 18, 2013)

Tinker: hope these threads and the comments have helped you. that grinder  should do well for finish grinding and touch up sharpening .

Stan Will be interesting the results of your tormek testing. 


All  I started a new thread entitled 10" wet grinder as a place to post the review of my new Scheppach grinder. Anyone using a wet grinder can post comments their as well.   Stan mentioned fine grain mode.  I feel this should be explained . an available accessories for the wet grinders is a stone grader. it will clean the stone  and refresh the 220 -250 grit.  the flip side literally, smooths the stone breaks down the grit and causes the wet stone to act like a 1000 grit stone and make much smoother cuts. This mode change is microscopic and does not put excessive wear on the stone. From what I have read a mirror finish on a cutting edge lasts longer  than one with tiny scratches. 

Tin


----------



## gus (Jul 18, 2013)

Tinkerer58 said:


> Well Gus think of it this way, moving to Aussie would be good for you, good fishing, very mild winters and you wouldn't freeze your nuts and bolts off when in your shop during winter. No snow to worry about or rusty tools. We're happy to have you here Gus.



Hi Tinkerer,

Thanks. Will be a pipe dream.Gus is going 70 in3 weeks. Got to strectch the
$$$.


----------



## gus (Jul 18, 2013)

Swifty said:


> Hi Gus, don't try to hold your breath while trying to make money from trading, tried day trading for a while, it's hard work and very risky. I have a garage about 2 1/2 car size, workshop takes up about 1 1/2 car spaces, junk takes up the rest. Maybe we should get together when you visit your daughter next time, I don't live far away.
> 
> Paul.




Hi Paul,

Planning a trip in December .Will see Paul and his machine shop and perhaps the toy shops for hobby machinist. See you mate!!!

Took many years to get smart. Been burnt.I go for the 5----6% dividends which better than the 3/4 % bank interest.Been a good season.Got off in time.Now is buy season.
There is literally no tax on capital appreciation. But there is a very minimal GST on the trading fees.Trading fees and GST adds up to 1/2 %.There is also no tax on some selected dividends. Take home is 99.5 %.


----------



## Sshire (Jul 18, 2013)

As a character-building experience, I ground a right hand turning tool this morning. I don't use these, I've gone completely to Warner HSS insert tooling, but thought it might be interesting. 
I walked right past the bench grinder without a glance, put a 60 grit Norox Ceramic belt on the 1"x42" machine and had the bit ground in under 2 minutes. Switched to a fine (A45 or A36) grit Trizact belt. These numbers bear no resemblance to grit sizes. IIRC, they are 400 and 220 equivalents or the other way around.
Mirror surfaces in under a minute. Moved the bit over to the Tormak honing wheel with honing compound and had a razor sharp bit.
Made some test cuts in 6061 and it looks as good as my Warner HSS.
Experiment over. The belt sander was better than the bench grinder ever was, but without wheel dressing, constantly changing diameters, etc.
Looking thru some ancient posts, I came across a link that Tin had posted about the South Bend Toolbit Grinding Jig. Looks like a useful holder for grinding. Someone makes a knockoff for about $90.00. All along, there was something familiar about it. Then it hit me. Square 5C collet and square collet block. Remove the locating set screw from the block and you have the infinite angle South Bend grinding jig. 
Thank you.  PM me and I'll let you know where to send the money.


----------



## Swifty (Jul 18, 2013)

Hi Stan, I have just received a 3/8 square 5 C collet from the US, I intend to use it in my tool and cutter grinder for grinding toolbits. Did a quick test and was very happy with the results, allows me to grind any relief angles that I want. Will also allow me to grind grooving tools with ease.

Paul.


----------



## Sshire (Jul 19, 2013)

Never having used a T&C grinder, I'm curious. Does it have an actual holder for 5C collets?


----------



## Swifty (Jul 19, 2013)

Hi Stan, Yes the type of cutter grinder that I have has a spindle that takes 5C collets. Will see if I can find a picture of the type.

Paul.


----------



## Swifty (Jul 19, 2013)

Here is a link to the cutter grinder that I have, it has a great air spindle that takes 5C collets
http://www.cuttermasters.com/portfolio/cuttermaster/

Paul.


----------



## cidrontmg (Jul 19, 2013)

CUTTERMASTER Tool and Cutter Grinder Accessories
To purchase, call us at (800) 417-2171 or (613) 523 7753
CM-01	CUTTERMASTER Tool & Cutter Grinder complete with air bearing fixture, work area lighting, 5&#8243; cup aluminum oxide wheel & air filter	$3,475.00 *Supplies limited

Good grief. Instead of buying my new drills, slot drills, end mills, etc., whatever could be sharpened, but at the instant the tool has an inkling for being not 100% (=somewhat dull), I junk the bit, and buy new and the best, $3475 will cover easily for the rest of my life for tools. Sharpening is a very good thing, and sharp tools are a joy to work. But if I bought new (rec. price) a German/Chinese OPTI D 240 x 500 G lathe, &#8364;1559, and a German/Chinese OPTI BF 16 Vario mill, &#8364;969, I'd still available some &#8364;120 to spend some "needs", instead of Cuttermaster...


----------



## Swifty (Jul 19, 2013)

I got my cuttermaster in a trade for some work that I did. The original owner had not used it for a long time and it was sitting on a shelf getting dusty.

Olli, you were complaining about the new price of a cuttermaster, a lot of people have Bridgeport mills, but if you look at their new price, no one would buy them. Have a look around at the used market like everyone else.

Paul.


----------



## gus (Jul 19, 2013)

Hi Guys,
This "Wet Grinder" forum is very infectious/epidemic and I am kicking myself for missing out the Japanese Quality Grinder.:wall:


----------



## Wizard69 (Jul 24, 2013)

gus said:


> No budget to buy Tormek or the very expensive Japanese eqv,bought these diamond hone files and make do to hone HSS
> for fine finishing cuts with Tapmatic Oil.. :hDe:
> A DIY wet stone grinder will take up too much space.:wall:



Make a grinding attachment for your lathe.   That way you can run the wheel at any reasonable speed.  Put a tube of water under the wheel and you can wet grind.


----------



## Wizard69 (Jul 24, 2013)

One other thing, when rough shaping high speed steel consider using cut off wheels in a die grinder to remove bulk material.   They cut extremely fast without putting a lot of heat into the steel.   You still need a grinder solution to get to final form.   This approach can save a huge amount of time  if a lot of material removal is required.  

As for belt grinding I can recommend that approach also.  The common 6" grinder isn't always the best tool for the job.


----------



## robcas631 (Jul 24, 2013)

Tinkerer58 said:


> I'm just wondering the problems some are experiencing is to do with the crap Chinese and Indian stuff we tend to get a lot of here. Every foreigner that lands on our shores want to start a business importing their crap from their home country, seen an Indian run shop selling cooking pots, I think they were made from re-enforced tin bloody foil with with brass gilding on handles, absolute sht at premium prices.


 
I believe each machine has "quirks" that must be dealt with by the operator.


----------



## robcas631 (Jul 24, 2013)

Very cool Gus!


----------



## ruzzie (Jul 24, 2013)

Here is my tool grinding attachment I made for my stent T&C grinder.
I have nearly finished the adaptor for holding round stock eg endmill, slotdrills, dee bits.

Cheers
Paul


----------



## Tinkerer58 (Jul 24, 2013)

Nice work Ruzz


----------



## don-tucker (Jul 25, 2013)

Hopper said:


> Been grinding HSS toolbits on ordinary bench grinders for 40 years or more at home and at work and never a problem. Usually keep a tin of water next to the grinder and when you feel the toolbit getting hot on your fingers, dip it in water and swish it around a bit.



Agree 100% I have been doing the same for about 60 years,
Don


----------



## Engineeringtech (Jul 29, 2013)

I do all my toolbit grinding offhand, with a cheap Craftsman bench grinder.   You can see if you overheat the edge.  It will turn blue.   All you have to do is cool the part down, and grind off the blue portion.   I dunk the toolbit in water quite a bit.  

On the grinder wheels...  You never want to have a really hard matrix, especially for rough cutting toolbits.   The oxide might be hard,  but you want it imbedded in a relatively soft matrix, so that as the abrasive particles get dull, they fall off the wheel, revealing new, sharp grit.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 29, 2013)

So you are jumping in and giving advice. OK . So how about posting an introduction in the welcome sub fora . Tell us a bit about yourself, your background your home shop and tools and your interest in model engine  building. 
Tin


----------



## Engineeringtech (Jul 30, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> So you are jumping in and giving advice. OK . So how about posting an introduction in the welcome sub fora . Tell us a bit about yourself, your background your home shop and tools and your interest in model engine  building.
> Tin



Tin,

I left an introduction.    I'm not able to come to the forum that often.  Hope people don't mind if I throw an idea out there, and then leave for a few weeks or longer.


----------

