# Briggs & Stratton 6S - A Beginnig



## b.lindsey

Well some of the first chips have been made on a new project, a half scale model of a 1950's B & S 6S engine. I picked up the full size engine in non-working condition at a swap a year or so back. It was missing the gas tank, carb, and air filter and from the outset I wish to thank rake60 for his generosity in loaning these three items to me to make drawings from.

Though several other parts have been drawn so far, I started making chips with the air filter assembly. The body and cap were finished today with one additional part of the assembly to go (the cartridge to hold the filter media) which in the model version will be made as a separate piece.

Below are some pictures of the two parts noted above.

#1 The top side of the air filter cover
#2 Hollowing out the underside of the cover


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## b.lindsey

The main body of the air filter was next. These 4 photos show the initial lathe steps to form the lower step of the filter body and hollowing out the inside:


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## zeeprogrammer

Great start!

I can't remember if you talked about this elsewhere..but is there a pic or drawing of the complete engine? Sorry for my impatience to know what it is.


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## b.lindsey

The final three pictures show the mill work and RT work to add some additional internal relief and the finished parts separately and together.


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## b.lindsey

Zee, I had mentioned it in an earlier post on the half scale OPV engine and Rick was good enough to post a picture of the 6S there. I hope this links to that post, if not I will try again. 

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5438.msg60539#msg60539

Bill


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## rake60

I'm impressed already Bill!
Beautiful reproduction on the air cleaner body! :bow:
Please keep us updated as you go.

Rick


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## zeeprogrammer

Ah! Thanks Bill. I guess my memory isn't totally shot. ;D
Smaller than I'd thought. Looking forward to more.


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## NickG

Bill, 

This looks like a really interesting project, will be watching it unfold!

Nick!


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## b.lindsey

Made a little more progress today as I found a piece of stock that would work well for the starter hub. A few pictures follow.


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## b.lindsey

Shown here is the addition of the slot for the rope pull and the finished hub. Next up will be the final piece of the air filter and then the flywheel.


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## b.lindsey

One last post for today. While I was thinking of it I took a picture of the original full size parts with the half scale parts next to them. Maybe this will give a better idea of relative sizes.


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## ozzie46

Very nice work. Eagerly awaiting more.


  Ron


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## 4156df

Bill,
This is really going to be interesting! Very nice work.
Dennis


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## Bill Mc

Hi Bill

This is a SUPER project you are building. I love your photos with the original part and your manufactured half scale part beside it. I will be following your post with keen interest. Keep up the good work and good luck with your project. I too would be interested in a set of plans whenever they are finalized. - Billmc


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## b.lindsey

Thanks to all for the comments even though there is a LONG way to go!! I will continue to take pictures of both the set-ups and the full size and scale parts as each is completed. Although several other parts are drawn, I am still trying to determine the best way to make some of them, especially if the original was a stamping like the main shroud, gas tank etc. The journey should be fun and I hope interesting for others to follow.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Not as much progress the last week or so...mainly just finishing the insert (filter media holder) for the air filter. A few pictures of that are below:


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## Kermit

I like the look and size of that little chuck riding in your rotary table. Is it a morse taper one? And where did you purchase it?


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## b.lindsey

The air filter is probably a gross overkill of what is needed but am trying to stay as true to the original as possible. The pics below show how it should work...the top lips of the insert will seal against the air filter cap leaving a gap for air to enter and flow down between the OD of the insert and the ID of the filter body. It will enter the bottom of the insert through the 8 holes and up through the filter and then back down the center bore of the insert via the 4 angled holes and into the carb. Not sure what to use for filter media yet :-\. The only other progress is the pull starter cord and handle. Some 1/8" nylon cord and a short piece of 5/8 dowel rod were used for that...no pic yet as the handle is being varnished now. Next up is the flywheel and i'm ready to begin on it now.


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## b.lindsey

Kermit, its the standard Sherline 3 jaw for the lathe....3/4"-16 threaded mount IIRC. There is a threaded hole in the RT and an adapter for mounting the chuck to the RT. As shown, the RT is also mounted to an angle table.

Bill


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## Krown Kustoms

That looks good,
I have an old motor that looks like that attached to an old saw table I will have t look again to see what kind it is.
-B-


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## b.lindsey

Progress is still slow but at least in a forward direction. Since last posting I found some appropriately sized nylon cord and a dowel rod to make the pull start...somewhat larger than half scale only because I can't scale my hand and fingers down. Also the flywheel has been started. I had to recess the back side on the mill in order to chuck internally as the 3 inch round brass blank was too large to be chucked on the OD in the Sherline. With that done however, the front side recess could be machined with a 5 degree angle from the center to the outer portion of the web as can be seen in the compound setting. Still a ways ro go...complrting the back side recess to its final depth, cuting all the fins, and tapering the bore which will match a mating taper on the crankshaft. A few pictures follow


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## arnoldb

That's a grand job you're doing there Bill :bow:

Regards, Arnold


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## b.lindsey

Thanks, Arnold. Is isn't coming along as rapidly as I had hoped but only due to lack of time. That little thing that occupies 8-5 (more like 6:30-5 these days) gets in the way, but whats a guy to do...unfortunately modeling doesn't pay the bills. :big: :big:

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Last weekend was spent at the annual Cotton Ginning Days Festival here in NC among lots of antique engines and tractors so no shop time until this weekend. I did manage to finish the flywheel though...all 32 fins with each cut taking 8 passes of .050" each. A few pictures of the set up and finished flywheel are included below.


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## Bill Mc

Hi Bill - That engine will look so real that Briggs & Stratton will sue you for a PATENT INFRINGEMENT Ha-Ha


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## rake60

Being an antique Briggs Engine collector I do know a few things about them.
On the back face for every flywheel there are two small round depressions.
One has a two digit number in it. That is the year the engine was manufactured.
(ie. 57 = 1957). The other depression has a letter in it to identify the month
it was manufactured. (ie. A=January, B=February, C=March), etc.

If your flywheel showed 09 and whatever letter for the final month
any Briggs collector would notice it.

Beautiful progress Bill!!! 

Rick


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for the info Rick. I am sure I have seen the depressions but don't recall the number/letter or didn't know what it was at the time. I would like to know the year of manufacture so will check that as soon as I get home tonight. I am thinking its early 50's based on looking up the serial number shortly after i bought the engine but that was a while back. Hey, maybe i should add the same year/month code to the model as well or is that carrying things too far ? :big: :big:

Bill


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## rake60

They will look just like this:






That flywheel was cast in May of 1955.

Rick


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## b.lindsey

Rick, I looked tonight and they do look just as you show in the picture and what I see is 51 and A so I assume that would be January of 1951. I did notice however that the 5 looks more like a 2 turned upside down...have you ever seen that before?

Bill


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## rake60

Yes I have seen that. The 6 and 9 were the same die pressed into 
the sand. If all of the 5's were in use an inverted 2 would be close
enough. They never thought about those numbers meaning anything
60 years later. It was just production control for the day.

Rick


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## b.lindsey

Rick, this is getting the cart way before the horse I know but thought you would know the answer. The 6S I have (though mostly devoid of paint) does have some remnants red coloring. The air filter you graciously loaned me was also red. But the picture of the 6S you had restored and posted in another thread was painted black. Was there a standard B & S color scheme in the early 50's or was that left up to the industrial end users like lawn mower manufacturers, etc. Just curious and thinking ahead....way ahead  

Bill


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## cfellows

Nice work, Bill! Very nice flywheel.

Chuck


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## rake60

Briggs manufactured a total of 984,394 units of the model 6S in the time
frame of June 1949 until July of 1957. Since those dates are after 1945 
they couldn't have had military uses, you can rule out the olive drab color
scheme. From there things get complicated. Briggs supplied engines to many
final users. Most of the engines were painted Briggs signature black.
Engines that were sold for use on Troybuilt or Toro machines were painted red.
John Deere also made home lawn and garden products at that time. 
Those Briggs engines received a final coat of JD green paint.

If you paint it black, red *or* green, you will be historically accurate.

Rick


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## Deanofid

It's all looking good, Bill. Nice job on the flywheel!
Following along with interest here.

Dean


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Chuck...am hoping progroess will speed up some from now until the end of the year.

Rick...thanks so much for the info. I was hoping that the black was among the choices. Depending on how it all turns out, I may even leave things in their natural metalic state for a while but too early to be considering that yet. 

I hope to get a start on the crankcase base/oil pan this weekend. The more I look at the part and drawing the more I think it should be built up from several pieces and silver soldered together to preserve the look of the original casting. The same will likely be true for the crankcase/cylinder which is all one casting in the original.

BIll


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## b.lindsey

Finally got a few chips made on the base/oil pan. Had to find a suitable piece of steel and then found an error in the drawing so had to correct that before beginning. The blank has been machined to the overall dimensions and most of the holes have been located and drilled. As the picture below shows, there is still a lot of carving out to do...the two angles on the nose, the inside cavity, and the oil drain plug section on the other end. Contrary to the last post, I am planning on making the whole part out of one piece. There should be some porgress in the next few days.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Today during lunch I managed to mill one of the two angles on the nose of the basr/oil pan and drill and tap the holes for the oil level check hole and the oil drain hole. 

Tonight at home I reworked a standard 5/16-18 hex cap screw to be used as the cap for the oil level check hole. The non scale ID marks on the head of the screw were faced off, the hex distance across the flats reduced to the half scale dimension, and the length reduced (see photo 2).

The the oil drain plug was made from a short length of brass, threaded 1/4-28 and the end squared off per the prototype design. These are shown in photo 3.


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## b.lindsey

The last two photos show the additional progress to the base itself and the two plugs installed where they will ultimately fit. As can be seen from last nights photo showing the full size base/oil pan, there is still work to be done...milling out the interior portion, milling the narrower angle on the nose and forming the profiles of the oil level check hole and oil drain hole on the opposite end from the angled nose.


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## GailInNM

Things are looking very nice, Bill.

Twenty five years or so ago I saw a standoff scale of a B&S engine in about 1/3 scale at a tractor show in Kansas. I think it was a composite of several different models to make it easier to build. He ran it for several hours at the show. Very steady runner. I always lusted after that engine, although at the time I did not have the skill, time or tools to build it.

Your build may have some influence on one my next builds. It's not fair for you to bring up such old fond memories.

Gail in NM


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## b.lindsey

Gail,
Old memories are one of the things that drew me to this particular engine. When I was around 6 or 7 or so, my granddad had a reel type lawnmower with a similar if not identical Briggs engine and when we would visit on lazy Spring or Summer Sunday afternoons I would beg him to let me try to start it. Figuring the chances of me actually doing it were pretty slim he would set it out in the yard and let me go at it. Well the day finally came when a pull of the starter rope brought the engine to life and I was thrilled as the rest of the family sitting on the back porch turned to look and share in this (to me) monumental event. The downside was that noone had ever told me how to turn it off once it started, though I had seen my dad and granddad push the little metal thingy against the spark plug to ground it (though preferably with one's' shoe or the wooden handle of of the pull cord). Needless to say, the finer points of grounding the plug escaped me and I simply used my finger instead, whereupon I got that shock that some 50 years later I still haven't forgotten !! No harm done, and a good lesson learned... obviously it didn't deter me from a love of all things mechanical, but that was my introduction to the B & S 6S.


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## b.lindsey

Another late lunch session got some of the relief done on the back side of the base. A 1/4" ball end mill was used to make the basic "L" cuts on either side and the remaining stock was removed with a regular end mill. The resulting fillet gives more or a cast look and better matches the prototype. The same method will be used for the remaining angles on the nose and the inside cavity as well. A couple of pictures of todays progress follow.


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## b.lindsey

Nearly done now with the base. Just some additional inside machining to finish off the wall thickness of the angled nose, some radius profiling on the back end and rounding the mounting pads on the bottom. Picture of where it is now follow. I hope to have this part finished tomorrow and then a little bead blasting on Monday at work and it should be replicate the original as closely as possible.

Bill


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## rake60

Bill I was wondering how that oil sump base could possibly be modeled.
Now I know! Beautiful work on this project.

Rick


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Rick. It seems that every part presents some unique challenges, even the gas tank and main engine (flywheel) shroud have several and varying radiused edges which all blend together so well in the original die stamped parts. Not sure how I am going to model them yet myself. It does give me a new respect for how and how well they did things back in the early 50's. Somebody had to make the dies even then and withoug the aid of of CNC, plastics or 3D modeling!! Then again, if it was easy it wouldn't be as much fun. Meanwhile...if you have any ideas for the main body casting, I'm all ears. scratch.gif

Bill


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## NickG

Bill, beautiful work again. 

I liked the story about your introduction to the briggs and straton, I have similar memories of a suffolk punch lawnmower, again, at my granddads place. I was hooked on engines of all kinds since then! I got into stationary engines before model engineering, buying a few little things like a villiers mk 10 and a petter which I never got running. I've always liked the idea of modelling a lister D or similar, they have very clean lines which should make it not quite as tricky. I'm yet to do an I.C. engine but it's not far down my list of projects.

Nice photography and write up too.

Nick


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## b.lindsey

Nick,
Thanks for the comments. Haven't made much progress this week as work got in the way. This is my first foray in the IC arena and its probably a stretch in terms of ignition systems, rings, timing gears, etc. Fortunately there is good advice here and some local help too. Just last night i was visiting with a member of out local antiques engine club, who is also the designer of the model "Snow" engine mentioned elsewhere on the forum...what an inspiration. Anyway, I'll keep plugging away so please be patient.

Bill


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## Deanofid

Shoot. I missed the new batch of pictures a few days ago. Really nice work on that oil sump! A fine machining job.

Dean


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## b.lindsey

Its been a busy month since my last post on the B&S 6S. Finishing up the Fall semester at the university, including taking a Solidworks class myself unfortunately hasn't left much shop time for the little Briggs. But at last the base/oil pan is finished, and during the Christmas break I will be working on the piston, conrod, rings, and CI cylinder liner. A few pictures of the finished base are shown below and more of the next few parts will be forthcoming shortly.


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## vlmarshall

Great stuff. I like watching this little Briggs come together. ;D


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Vernon, just wish I had more to show lately.A lot of the last few weeks has been spent making a vessel for one of the faculty's research projects. It will be used for ultrasonic testing of things like jet fuel under high heat conditions across a .050" gap while pressurized with notrogen gas. I don't understand it all, but has to do with monitoring what goes on in a jet engine or rocket exhaust nozzle where internal sensors would be vaporized while ultrasonic sensors can work from the outside of the nozzle. I just make what they ask for...in this case solid 316 stainless, 4 in diameter. The center section is also 4" long with a 2" bore. Sorry to digress but thought it turned out well, especially for stainless. The pressurization valves and ports have yet to be determined. Heat will be provided by an external band heater fitting over the OD of the vessel with temps up to 400 degrees C.


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## NickG

Bill, thanks for showing your latest work - really impressive.

Nick


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## Diy89

Wow, that's nice for stainless..... 

What a cylinder it would make for an engine....


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## b.lindsey

After a couple of false starts on the piston and some results I wasn.t happy with, I think the third time was the charm. Though not every aspect of the machining was photographed...like turning the final OD of .998"...most of the other steps are shown below. Photo 1 shows drilling the cross hole for the wrist pin once the blank had been faced on the bottom end. Photo 2 shows milling out the relief on the inside for the con rod. To get the pocket perpendicular to the wrist pin hole I had inserted a 1/4" rod through the cross hole and indicated off of that as the x-axis was traversed. That's the reason for using the rotary table shown in the pic, to rotate until the inserted rod was parallel to the x-axis. Photo 3 shows counterboring the bottom skirt of the piston.

 After this was done the piston was reversed in the lathe chuck and the top end faced until the final length of the piston was achieved as show in picure 4.


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## b.lindsey

After the above operations, the piston (still in the lathe chuck) was transferred back to the rotary table on the mill and a slitting saw was used to cut the piston ring grooves as shown in Photos 1 and 2. A third wider groove was also cut which will be fitted with a perforated ring to allow oil to bleed through the piston to lube the cylinder wall as per the prototype.

Regards,
Bill


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## b.lindsey

The final few pictures show the mostly finished piston alongside the prototype piston and the wrist pins for each. I am thinking the wrist pin will be fixed to the wrist pin cross hole with set screws or 1/16" spring pins whereas the original used circular wire clips at both ends of the wrist pin. Final method yet to be decided.

Bill


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## Deanofid

It's always good to see a new post on this engine, Bill. The piston looks just dandy.

I've turned piston ring grooves in the lathe. Interesting method using the slitting saw and RT. It looks like a pretty good way to make very thin grooves. 
Thanks for the pics.

Dean


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## vlmarshall

This is great! Another enjoyable update. ;D


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## b.lindsey

Short update today...got started on the cast iron cylinder liner. In photo 1 the ends had been faced to the final overall length and had started turning the OD from the 1.625" stock diameter to the 1.250" required, leaving a flange on what will be the top end of the liner. The second photo shows the liner reversed in the chuck to bring the flange diameter down to 1.375" and thinning it to a width of .125" Finally, with the flange again chucked in the lathe chuck the dial test indicator we used to make sure it was running true before drilling an initial bore of 1/4" in preparation for boring and honing to size. Not much but progress just the same.


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## slick95

Great up date Bill,

Looking forward to more progress. Super project   

Jeff


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## gbritnell

Hi Bill, I applaud you fellows making somewhat bigger parts on small equipment like the Sherline. One of my first lathes was a Unimat. Although it stretched the capabilities of the small machine I did make some bigger pieces. It looks like you're making some steady progress on the engine. How is the cylinder going to attach to the crancase?
gbritnell


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for the comments Jeff and gbrit. The small equipment does take patience for sure and not everything will or even can be done with it on this project.
.
Gbrit....in the original the cylinder and crankcase are all one casting. I hope to do the same though it will be machined out of aluminum...hence the cast iron cylinder liner. That is going to be a challenge to say the least and i keep looking at the crankcase/cylinder and hoping for some epiphany as to doing it. I think it will take some degree of fabricating combined with machinig.

I have a few progress pictures I will post below on the liner, one smaller brass plate, and the cylinder head.

Regards,

Bill


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## b.lindsey

one of the first parts I drew was the thin curved sheet metal piece that wraps around the cylinder fins and to which the engines name plate was attached. Shown below is the drawing itself glued to a piece of .015 brass. 3M makes a spray adhesive which works very well for this and can be later cleaned off with thinner. As can be seen the top section still need to be cut/sanded/filed to the lines of the drawing, then the mounting tab will be bent, and once the cylinder is finished the brass will be curved to fit it.


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## b.lindsey

A little progress on the cylinder liner, but i admit this was drilled out to 7/8" on the bigger 13 x 40 lathe at work. The final 1/8" will be bored on the Sherline and then honed to final size.


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## b.lindsey

I have begun drawing the rather irregular shaped cylinder head with its various angles and radiused curves. One method I have found helpful is to measure and sketch as closely as possibly the overall outline of the part at half scale which is the scale of the model itself. Then print the outline at 2:1, or the size of the full size engine part which can then be placed on the drawing for comparison. So far this has worked for the main engine shroud (sorry no pics of that) and most recently for the cylinder head, shown below. The same procedure was used after these pics and after the addition of the bolt holes in the cylinder head drawing.


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## NickG

Good progress, that head looks awkward, well impossible to me but can't wait to see it emerge!

Nick


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Nick. The head shouldn't be too bad, though the underside (not pictured yet) may be the hardest part. As you can tell I am working on the various parts which will connect the the crankcase first. That way it will be easier I hope to transfer the hole patterns to the drawing of the crankcase. This engine would be an ideal one for a set of castings, just wish i had the skills and equipment to pursue that. 

At any rate, back to finishing the cylinder liner for now, then the piston rings and getting that all to fit. The next two items will be the connecting rod and the cylinder head.


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## kendo

Hi Bill 
    Only just found this post, don't know how i missed it.took a while to read
    it all but I'm glad i did. really really looking forward to the rest of the build.
    This is one post I'm going to bookmark.
    You are doing a fantastic job, hope the the rest of the build goes well for 
    you.
                Ken


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Ken,

I wish it were going faster but the day job keeps getting in the way...lol. Still making some slow but steady progress however.

Bill


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## E Chris

Hi Bill,

Great work, the air cleaner and starter cup look fine. Last year at NAMES a fellow across from our table had a B&S well under way. I think it is half scale and in steel (wow!). Unfortunately I didn't get his name but I thought you might like to see a couple of photos. The Briggs and Stratton 5 and 6S's have always been a favorite of mine. I have a 5S and would like to follow in your foot steps someday. I can see no big problem in modeling one of these, except of course, the magneto. Keep up the great work, I will be anxiously watching the build.











Chris


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## rake60

WOW is right! That is a beautiful modeling of a Briggs Model Y block.
I have restored a couple of them.






Did you happen top ask him how he made the fins in the cylinder area of
the block? Have you come up with any thoughts on how to approach that Bill?

Rick


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## E Chris

Hello everyone,

Unfortunately, Rick, I never got a chance to talk to the fellow. Hopefully he will be at NAMES in April and I will be sure and talk to him and get some photos.

Chris


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for the pics Chris. The block will be the most intricate part and I hope I can do as much justice to it as that fellow has. Thanks for the full size pic too Rick.

Not to disappoint you Chris, but I am planning on using a Hall effect sensor and coil for the ignition. My thinking is that it will be more fool proof but that's still down the road a ways. I have thought of including "dummy" components (condenser, points, etc) just for looks, though with the engine shroud on they would never be seen. Choices, choices... :-\


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## b.lindsey

Rick, I just noticed your question as to the fins. The 6S would seem to be a little easier than this y block in that there is not a finned passageway between the cylinder and the area where the valve stems come up from the crankcase. There is some contour to the fin outline meaning varying depths as it traces the periphery of the cylinder, but I still think this can be done with a slitting/slotting saw and rotart table set-up. Would be ideal for CNC but since I will be doing it manually, I will just have to work out the various depths as the crankcase/cylinder is rotated around. What worries me far more is the part of the crankcase which houses the larger gear driving the cams. I will try to take some pics tonight to illustrate both of these points.

Bill


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## Philjoe5

Bill,
I just picked up this work in progress and read all the posts on your project. Your work is beautiful and the pictures are great. Thanks for your efforts in sharing your work with us. :bow:

Cheers,
Phil


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Phil for the comments and for looking at the thread. I took a few pictures of the full size crankcase tonight just for comparison to the y block crankcase shown. The fins still look a little easier than on the y block, but how to make the rounded "bulge" which houses the larger cam gear has me scratching my head This is one of those cases where i just keep staring at it and eventually something will dawn on me. Fortunately I have plenty of other parts to make until that happens.


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## rake60

Bill I apologize for my constant breaking in on your build here, but being
a Briggs collector I can't help myself. :-[ 

Was there anything on that pin that is sticking out of the back of that crankcase?
The 6S is rarer than the 5S. Lever and Kick Start models are even rarer!

This is a Lever Start 5S that I bought for $25 as a basket case on a 1951 Eclipse Rocket
reel mower.






After a total restoration of the engine and the mower it would start on the first
pull and even cut grass!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFtplyxQfRw[/ame]

I ended up selling that restored mower at auction for a tidy profit.

I appoligize again for my drifting here but the lever start engines are quite rare
and I can see no other reason for that pin being where it is. It's kind of exciting to
see from a collectors point of view.

Rick


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## b.lindsey

Rick,
Please don't apologize...your contributions have been invaluable certainly to me and I think to the thread also...so as the HMEM guru on Briggs, by all means keep the comments and observations coming. As I noted at the outset, this engine was also a basket case I picked up at our old engine club's swap meet for 20-25 dollars mainly because I liked the lines of it and it had most of the parts intact....less the gas tank, carb, and air filter as you already know. 

As to your question, I wondered what that thingy was for myself...there was nothing attached to it when i bought the engine. I had assumed it may be some sort of motor mount though I have no idea what the engine had previously been used on. The "thingy," whatever it is is on the pulley side of the crankcase and the opposite side had the conventional starter hub for a rope pull. Is it possible that any of these engines could have had both a rope start AND a kick start?

As to the model...I got that off of the nameplate...and earlier you had helped me determine the manufacturing date based on the flywheel markings. If it would help to know the serial number I think I can still make it out on the nameplate. Sorry I can't be of more help here but again, please don't be shy about chiming in at anytime. I would love to know as much as i can about this little guy. 

Bill


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## rake60

The flywheel marking indicate the date that flywheel was cast.
The serial number would give the units manufacture date. They are 
usually pretty close. This is the serial number chart for the 6S.
The number in each box shows the last unit manufactured that month.






Rick


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## b.lindsey

Rick,
As the photo shows, the serial number is 248954 which would put the engine mfg. date in Feb of 1951. Although it doesn.t show unless you blow the photo up it is indeed a model 6S. Maybe the type #701054 gives some additional information that you would know about. Now you have me very curious as to what thet thingy is sticking out on the pulley side of the crankcase ???

Bill


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## rake60

There just may be an answer to that in the Type Number.
I don't know the code to the Type Numbers, but Briggs might.
I have already sent off an email to them, we'll see what they
come up with. They are usually as helpful and they can be when
it involves their antique engines.

While I was searching my archives to see if I had that number code list
I found a couple of old Briggs photos that I had forgotten about.

*1919 to 1924.
Fourth floor of the Wheel Motor Plant.*




*
Briggs Plant during WW1.
These Gals are actually making grenade housings.
A single cylinder engine with one heck of a power output! *




Those snazzy jumpsuits were issued by the Defense Department because
the felt the Victorian dresses of the day would be too dangerous in a machine 
shop.

OK, I'm drifting again...
We'll see what Briggs come up with on the Type Number.

Rick


----------



## Philjoe5

Rick, Bill,
Thanks for bringing the historical perspective into the picture. It's interesting to me. You can't help but admire the manufacturing heritage of any of our engine models as you get into building them. My current build happens to be UK based but all the same you have to admire those folks for what they accomplished without (forgive me) computers. :

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## RICHARDDV

The Briggs engine numbers determine how the engine is built.

   The model number is listed first and on the earlier models consist of displacement and cylinder block configuration and on later models indicate displacement, block configuration, starter equipment, type of carb, and electrical equipment. 
   The type number is the number assigned to a specific customer requirement.
   The code number is a quality control telling date of manufacture, shift etc. 
   If you need to obtain any parts for your engine , the parts dealer needs all of these numbers to correctly supply your parts. 
   If you need further specifics I would be glad to get my service manual and post the complete chart.   richard


----------



## RICHARDDV

The pin sticking out of the back of the crankcase is the pivot for the optional kick starter.  richard


----------



## rake60

Richard that information is 100% correct for Briggs engines that were built after 1964.
Prior to 1964 there were no Code Numbers, and the Type Number identified configurations
specific to that particular engine. 

If you like Briggs manuals, do you have this one?







My copy is a bit worse for wear, but it covers the older models and numbering systems
quite well.

I have done a little more research on the 6S starters.
I haven't seen any kick start options, but I did find a parts listing for a lever starter.






I am thinking more every day that engine may have been a lever start design.
We will see if Briggs can confirm that.

Rick


----------



## RICHARDDV

I have a WS series Briggs 5/8 hp 2 inch bore and stroke, that was used on washing machines and other similar apps and it was equipped with a kick starter when I got it. The kick starter was mounted on the pto shaft and the starter clutch had a 2 "? vee pulley mounted on the clutch assy. The kick pedal was bolted on the larger gear segment pointing the opposite direction and mounted on the pin on the back of the engine block. It has a ccw rotation and a spraybar barb w/ a detached fuel tank. Unfortunately the kick starter has been misplaced since I obtained it in the early 60's. I do have the vintage service manual as well as the 6 inch thick dealer parts bench manual  richard


----------



## b.lindsey

Rick, Richard
Thanks so much for this additinal information. Rick...the only real guide I have looked at is the online manual for Briggs 6S's found at their website: http://www.briggsandstratton.com/pdf/owners_manual/100/Model 6S-Domestic.pdf

I hadn't noticed it before but on page 11 they show the same two drawings (and others) you includued in your post. So apparently there either was a lever start or an option to include it. That probably answers the question as to what the pin on the crankcase is. Now I have to wonder if this engine was ever so equipped ???.

The factory pics are amazing...and yeah...victorian dresses in a machine shop...definitely not a good combination, especially with line shaft driven machines as illustraded.

Thanks again for taking the time to research this, and if you hear anything back from Briggs, I would enjoy knowing.

Bill


----------



## rake60

This is getting interesting for me on the antique end.
Richard, I have never heard of a Briggs Model WS. Do you have any photos, or
links to where more information on it can be found?
I have restored several Model WM and WMB's This one turned out exceptionally nice
and it too ended up going to auction. I was a little shocked when the bidding ended 
on it. It was dressed out to be a collectors show piece and the collectors wanted it
on that given day.






I do have an abbreviated story of that restoration on my personal webpages at:
http://home.comcast.net/~rake60/wmb_restoration.htm 

Nothing from Briggs yet Bill.
It usually takes about three days.

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Rick, 
Nicely documented story on that restoration. Now I am going to have to seriously think about restoring this 6S : if I can find the parts I need. Not to rob your trade secrets or anything, but can you suggest any likely outlets for such parts? The bearings, gears and valves all seem to be in decent shape. As you already know it is missing the gas tank, carb, and air filter. In addition it needs the Magneto coil, a new set of rings, and probably a muffler.

Bill


----------



## rake60

Other than the Crankshaft and connecting rod, the parts from a Briggs 5S
are interchangeable with the 6S parts. Keep a watch on eBay.
A complete non-running 5S engine will usually go for $20 to $50.

John Smith has an eBay store that has a constantly changing inventory
of both new and used Briggs parts. He goes by _*briggsnut*_ there.

Buzz Trabbic also maintains and eBay store under the name _*lots-a-junk*_.

If none of those can turn anything up, I can email you a list of nine other
people who buy and sell antique Briggs parts.

If you do decide to do that restoration. I want pictures! 

I have only restored one 6S. That restoration is documented as well on my 
personal pages. http://home.comcast.net/~rake60/1951_briggs_model_6s.htm

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Thsnks Rick,
I will begin checking those out for the parts I need. Based on your restoration pictures which are great by the way, I would say the basic iron of my 6S is in pretty good shape. I can only hope it would turn out as well as yours have!! For now though I need to get back to making chips on the half scale model. Thanks for all your help.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Here's a short update...still not a lot of time in the shop but minor progress on other fronts. I was trying to figure a way to scale down the serial#/oiling instructions label and make it as exact as possible. A little time with MS-Word (well more than a little) and then printing at various size percentages yielded the results shown below. The first pic is of the original label (from an earlier post). The second shot is the cylinder fin cover it will fit onto and finally a shot of the printed label. The actual size is 1.4" x 1.3" Off in a bit to have the printed label laminated at the office supply store and then to Lowes to see if I can fine some tinyl brass tacks or similar to use as rivets to attach the laminated label to the cover.


----------



## b.lindsey

Meanwhile I ordered a few pieces of brass and aluminum needed for the next parts. The gas tank will be machined from two pieces of brass and then joined together. Overall it will end up about 3.75" wide, 2.50" tall, and roughly 1.125" deep excluding the cap. There's gonna be more chips that material remaining but it seemed the best way to do it. Also shown is the aluminum piece that will become the cylinder head. Plan on doing some roughing machining on this today and tomorrow. I still need to finish boring the cylinder liner and honing it to size so that is on the weekend agenda as well.


----------



## NickG

This is really looking the business. Never seen anything quite like it, nice work
 :bow:


----------



## b.lindsey

The trip to Office Depot and the Home improvemt store worked out well as I found some brass plated round head nails of a perfect size. Trimmed the laminated label to width and finished cutting and filing the brass cover, then marked the 4 corner locations for the makeshift rivets. The rivets were inserted through the label and brass piece and cut off leaving just enough to pein over on the back side. The top and bottom extra laminate was trimmed to the top and bottom edges. Finally the cover was carefully curved to the approximate profile of the original and the top tab bent to the 90 degrees required.


----------



## HYTECH

Awsome job wlindiii!! seeingyour keys I must ask. What kind of hyundai do you drive?


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks HYTECH. Its a SantaFe Limited AWD which I love!! The only problem I have had is a recurring air bag light which they have tried to fix on 4 occasions now and it still happens so i prety much ignore it now. Any ideas? 

Bill


----------



## HYTECH

look on your receipts and give me the trouble codes they should be "Btrashx" then I can see if there is any common problems. You can access all the Shop Manuals and TSBs at www.hmaservice.com free signup with Email address. PM me your Vin and I can look up and see what they repaired.

that "Btrashx" is supose to be somthing like B2137 I used 4 Xs to show the format but the forum changed it.
Jasen


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## Deanofid

That cover came out very nice, Bill. 
Glad to see another new post. I like this project!

Dean


----------



## rake60

Beautiful work Bill!

By the way, I did hear back from Briggs.
The original engine you have there was equipped with a lever starter.

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Rick. Guess I will have to ad that little stud sticking out of the crankcase then but the lever start (which would be a very nice addition) will have to be a later addition. Still lots of parts to make yet. I finished dimensioning the cylinder head drawing and revampred the gas tank drawing a little yesterday. Thanks so much for checking on that though and passing the info. along!!

Bill


----------



## NickG

Bill, that really looks the part, it's brilliant!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Nick...Hope to have more to show in the next day or so.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Here are fa few pictures on the progress of the gas tank. The original was die stamped as a top and bottom half and them seam welded together. Not practical for a one off so I am machining it out of brass in two halves with a brass spacer between them to simulate the flanges on the original that were seam welded. The top and bottom halves have been roughed out but the corner and edge rounding has yet to be done. The wall thickness will obviously be thicker than the original but the outside dimensions will match the original and I hope will give it a nice scale appearance. I am planning on soldering the three pieces together once all the final contouring and rounding is finished.



View attachment Gas-Tank-001a.jpg








View attachment Gas-Tank-004a.jpg


View attachment Gas-Tank-005a.jpg


----------



## b.lindsey

Here are the last two pictures for now. Still looks a little rough but getting there.


View attachment Gas-Tank-006a.jpg


View attachment Gas-Tank-007a.jpg


----------



## cobra428

wlindiii,
I went to a trophy place and had a plate engraved. $5.00 I gave it a light coat of clear polyu






Tony


----------



## b.lindsey

Tony,
That plate looks very nice and I would certainly consider that as a nameplate for the final project like adding it to the base or something. I was after duplicating the plate on the full size engine verbatim...didn't count the actual words but somewhere around 100 or so all reduced to a 1.4" x 1.3" square. Some of the fonts sizes were 6pt and then reduced to 40% of that in the printed copy. Not sure how small a print these engravers can manage. Some of it I can't even read without a magnifying glass. Not sure either with that word count that they would do it for $5.00. I do appreciate the suggestion though.

Bill


----------



## arnoldb

Good going Bill - the gas tank is looking great so far ;D

Regards, Arnold


----------



## cobra428

Bill,
"The Made in the USA" at the bottom is very small. Magnification required. My placard is about 1 x .75 inches.
I gave the engraver an ACAD DXF file and he just brough it in to his software. It's nice to know for some future project.

Tony


----------



## b.lindsey

One more picture to add and that is the full size tank next to the half scale one in progress. It shows all the corner rounding and edge rounding that still has to be done. The extension for the gas tank cap and the cap will need to be turned from brass too. The internal threading of the cap might be a little tricky or more likely one of those times the lathe chuck is just turned by hand as there is only about 1 1/4 threads in the cap itself. Today at least i do want to get the corners rounded on both the top and bottom halves of the tank.


----------



## b.lindsey

with 8 corners to round I made up a quick and dirty locating ring to match the inside radius of the tank halves snd screwed it to the threaded center of the rotary table with a sacrificial scrap part as shown in photo 1. Each tank corner could then be located on the ring and clamped down to mill the outside corner radius as in photo 2,
After a little surface finishing its beginning to look a little more like the prototype.


----------



## Deanofid

It's getting there in good fashion, Bill. Very nice.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Here are some updated pics of the gas tank. As much of the edge rounding as possible was done with a corner rounding end mill, but the rest had to be roughed out with the Dremel, then lots of hand filing and sanding to blend the contours and eliminate the machine marks, and finally buffing as I have noted in another thread today (re: New Toy). I coming along slowly but steadily and so far am pleased with the results. Working on the filler extension and cap now and then will be ready to solder it all up.


----------



## Deanofid

Really nice, Bill. Very much the image of the full sized item.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean,
I hope when all is said and done it will be a reasonable facsimile orf the original from an appearance standpoint. Funny thing is that it is almost impossible to scale the already thin wall thicknesses of the original, so I have opted instead to preserve the outside appearance...but in doing so, and in using brass...its going to be probably as heavy as the full size tank if not heavier! As the .pdf below shows there is still a lot of material left on the inside and in the walls.



View attachment BS6S-Gas Tank.pdf


----------



## b.lindsey

Gas Tank is finished excapt for the soldering which I will get done this week and hope like crazy it doesn't mess up the work that has gone itno it thus far. Last night and this morning I made the filler extension and gas cap which makes it look more like what it is. Now on to the cylinder head !!


----------



## Deanofid

Yeah, it looks like a little Briggs gas tank, Bill. Very good.
I watch for your posts on this build. Can't help thinking this will be one of the
coolest engines made here, when it's done.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Dean,
Thanks again for the kind comments, you and Rick both have been an inspiration for keeping the post going. I know others are looking and i can appreciate that it isn't the fastest build going but the feedback is much appreciated. By the way i have looked at your web page and its quite impressive too!

Bill


----------



## Speedy

very impressive


----------



## slick95

Very nice work Bill,  

Look forward to your progress...

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Speedy and Jeff,
Thanks for the comments and for taking a look at the build.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

After a small misstep last night, I got a start on the cylinder head after work today. The blank was roughed out and the basic hole pattern drilled. Hopefully tomorrow I can get the spotfacing done at each hole location.At this point just trying to get something done each day.


----------



## NickG

Looks perfect!


----------



## b.lindsey

Just a smidge of progress today...milling down to the various heights of where the head bolts will meet the head to hold it to the cylinder block. Nothing special there...the fins will come next.

Bill


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## Deanofid

Yes, I can see a head in there, just waiting to come out.
I'm sure you're the guy to find it, Bill!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Nick...not sure about perfect but thanks....you should have seen the one i screwed up the previous evening...fortunately I was just starting on it...but hey, its making a nice paperweight.

Dean...thanks for the vote of confidence...I'll try to coax it out somehow 

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

A little backtracking today. The starter hub was one of the earlier parts finished and needed the wire mesh screen formed to fit around it. I had some fine mesh stainless screen but finally got around to making a forming tool...nothing elaborate, just a piece of nylon machined to the correct sizes. The pics below were taken after the fact but the procedure was the same. A template was cut out and glued to the s.s. wire mesh. Cutting the OD was no problem but the .688" ID proved too small for scissors or snips. I finally got a small hole through it and then used the dremel to grind out the ID to the template lines. Four little snips allowed the resulting inner sections to be bent (sort of) with an aluminum plunger as shown in photo 3. Some additional hand bending was required to get the bend to near 90 degrees. The dashed lines on the template are the bend lines byt the way.


----------



## b.lindsey

After the inner tabs were formed the outer rim had to be formed. The other side of the forming tool was used for this and the inner tabs helped a lot to hold it in position. The outer rim was all formed by hand bending and some tapping around the entire edge with a small ball pein hammer. Even then, a little more hand forming was required after removal. To my surprise the wire held together well and didn't even offer to unweave itself. As shown in the last photo the inner and outer diameters seem to be acceptably concentric. For size reference the OD of the finished screen is 2 inches.
It should be a snug fit to the starter hub and I am still deciding how to attach it permanently to the hub, though that won't be done until later as things begin to go together.

I'll try to take a pic tonight of it fitted to the hub.

EDIT: one of the photos had to be reduced in size...so the reference to the last picture refers to the middle picture below.


----------



## b.lindsey

OK...I jusy couldn't help fitting these few parts together as they will eventually fit. Another little loose end tied and I am happy with the results. Here are a few pics of the starter hub (with its dress on) and her big sister. The mesh on the model is a bit finer that the original (even scaled by half) but it was available. Guess I will just have to find some quarter scale debris to keep out of the flywheel


----------



## rake60

Amazing work Bill!  :bow:

I sit here thinking, how could he possibly model the next part.
Then you show it! I am totally watching for more!

Rick


----------



## slick95

Very nice Bill   

Looking forward to the next part also...

Jeff


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Wow.
I guess I hadn't been keeping up. I was enjoying the last few posts and ended up going back to the start of the thread. It's a great thread...some very nice work here.
Very enjoyable Bill...very nice stuff.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Rick and Jeff.The more I get done, the more I can see it in my head ...there's still a long way to go though, a lot more parts to make, and challenges ahead, but its been a fun journey so far and the most ambitious project I have attempted. Thanks to all for the interest and to you Rick for your shared knowledge and Briggs expertise!!

A quick question to other IC modelers. As I look ahead to the con rod which is already drawn, would aluminum be sufficient from a material standpoint or should I consider something stronger like bronze. If aluminum is acceptable, should it have bronze sleeves for the wrist pin and crank or would just the aluminum suffice?

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Zee...I have been following your 0-4-0 thread with great interest also.

Bill


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## Deanofid

This looks great, Bill. Every step you make is very well done.

The con-rod;
I don't know the bore and stroke on your engine, nor it's expected rpm. One I made uses an aluminum rod and a plain bearing on the rod big end. It has a bore of 3/4" and a stroke of 1" and splash lube. I think it only turns at around 1000 rpm, though.  It has quite a few hours on it for a small engine. Probably 15-20. I took the crankcase cover off a few months back just to have a look at things, and couldn't detect any wear in the bottom rod bearing.

George Britnell can probably tell you all you need to know about what to use, material wise. Maybe PM him, if he doesn't chime in here.

Dean


----------



## GailInNM

Looking good, Bill.

At the wrist pin, below most of the commercial model airplane engines below about 0.4 CID just used hard aluminum, like 2024, for conrod with no insert. Above that bronze bearings started to show up. 

With the limited amount of running that a display/show model gets, I think a 2024 conrod would be fine. You probably wont be trying to get the ultimate amount of power out of it either like working engines. I think that I did sleeve one wrist pin bearing on a 1 inch bore engine, but that is probably because I had a suitable bearing on hand. I have never built any high performance larger engines. The wrist pin needs to be well polished and case hardening is an advantage. Dowel pin works well if a suitable one is available.

Gail in NM


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for the advice guys. As info. both the bore and stroke are 1.00". As I figure it that puts the displacement somewhere around .785 cu. in. I see this as being used only for display purposes and even then at idle rpm's more ofthe than not, though I would expect it to run at over 1000 rpm at times. The original engine manual showed HP ratings at 2200, 2700, and 3200 rpm but again I don't expect to run it at anything near those speeds as a rule. 

It will have splash lubrication just as the original did as there is a small "finger" attached to the bottom end of the con rod which dips into the oil in the base and "flings" it within the crankcase on each revolution.

I am planning on using a dowel pin for the wrist pin Gail for the reasons you mention and fortunately that scales down to a 1/4" so that shouldn't be a problem. Since the piston is aluminum also, I do want to make sure the wrist pin is well fixed in the piston and not free to turn since I can see that wearing out the wrist pin bore rather rapidly. The original con rod was cast and then machined with oil grooves at least on the crank shaft end but I can't tell if it was cast from aluminum or possibly magnesium. 

If George doesn't chim in here I will give him a shout too.

Thanks again.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Today was the annual Swap Meet for our local antique engine club and I was on a quest to see if I could find some of the missing parts for the full size 6S I am modleing from. I didn't find parts per se, but I did find two more 6S's...with most if not all of the missing parts I need intact. Both had good carbs, decent air filters, and non-leaking gas tanks.

The pictures below show the front and back side of each. The one in the first two pictures is missing its nameplate and muffler but I did see it run briefly so it is in near running condition and the bearings feel fine too....no slop in them. Of the two, this one is grimier but in this case I think that is good because its "innards" probably haven't dried out as much, At least the exhaust valve as view through the missing muffler port still seems oily.

The second one (pictures 3 & 4) isn't in as good a shape and the bearings have some significant wear, but the air filter was more of the type I am modeling and it has the better gas tank too. It also had a nameplate and going from the serial number it was manufactured around May-June of 1952 or about 18 months later than the 6S I am modeling.

Hopefully between the three I can come up with one working engine that can be restored and be displayed side by side with the half scale model.


----------



## b.lindsey

When I got the new additions home and compared them to the crankcase I already had I noticed that the second one pictured above, the one with the nameplate had the oil drain plug on the opposite end of the base. I am wondering and hoping that Rick or other Briggs fans can shed some light on this. Otherwise all the castings appear to be identical. The other question I have is that the engine without the nameplate (pics 1 & 2 above) has an extra little cover extending from the top of the flywheel cover up over part of the cylinder head fins. Since I can't date this one (missing nameplate) I was wondering when this change was made? Any help would be muchly appreciated.

Bill


----------



## rake60

That is interesting Bill.
I have never seen a 6S with the oil drain on the point end of the base.
It may have been a special arrangement to better suit a customers application. 
You can still date it with the stamping in the back face of the flywheel.

Nice score! Thm:

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Yes Rick, I recall the flywheel method thanks to you, just didn't break them down that far yet, but i will to check that and the points as well. I did discover an extra little diverter blade inside the flywheel cover which seems to divert more air to the cylinder head when the throttle is more open...at least that wahat it looks like to me. Another part to model  scratch.gif

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Back to the model today with some work on the top side of the cylinder head. The top rounded profile was also machined on the rotary table. There's still some clean up to do around the bolt hole bolsters and then the entire underside to machine as well but that will have to wait for another day.


----------



## Speedy

looking goood! 
I personally love all these builds done on the smaller sherline/taig equipment.
this briggs is going to look top notch when completed.


----------



## chuck foster

years ago i thought about building a model of the briggs my dad had on his tiller but he wouldn't let me take it apart to measure all the parts.
now years later i see this build and it got me thinking about building one my self..................so i phoned dad about the tiller engine and he said he through it out 2 or 3 years ago :rant:

oh well i guess for now i will have to just follow this build and watch it unfold Thm:

keep up the good GREAT work th_wav

chuck


----------



## metalmad

looking fantastic
can not wait till first pop
cheers pete.


----------



## b.lindsey

Speedy...I can't say everything has been done on the benchtop equipment but probably 90% so far. The other 10% could have been done on the Sherlines but would have been more tedious in some cases. The only thing that required a more sizeable mill was the gas tank where some larger end mills were used.

Chuck...maybe you can find a non running engine at a local small engine repair shop...or if you aren't in too big a hurry, I will have a set of plans finished by the end of the build. I expect I have considerably more time in drawing and measuring that in actually making chips. Thanks for the vote of confidence though!!

Pete... the further i get into it them more impatient I become for that first pop too. Lets just hope its a pop rather than a fizzle!!


----------



## b.lindsey

Progress this week has been a little slow but still some progress was made. The joining ring for the upper and lower halves of the gas tank was made and today I got the tank soldered together and cleaned up from that process. While checking it for any leaks I measured the capacity which was 3 oz. Now that its finished, it will be put away for a while.


----------



## b.lindsey

After the tank was finished (which took quite a while) I went back to the cylinder head. The rotary table was used to mill the recesses in the underside of the head. Then on the top side, the perimeter of each bolster for the bolt heads was milled down to the depth of the fins. For each of these the rotary table had to be centered, the the particular hole location centered on the RT, and then the milling work. With 9 hole locations and using a 1/16" end mill this took a while. Tomorrow I will finish cleaning up the fins with a 3/32" end mill now that there is a little more clearance around each bolt location. Two of the fins also need to be lowered in height to match the prototype. A little more radius work on the back side and connecting the valve recesses with the piston recess (on an angle again per the prototype) and the majority of the head will be completed. This has turned out to be a fairly intricate part with lots of different set-ups. I keep thinking how much easier some of these parts would be if starting out with a casting instead of bar stock. Maybe that will be a project for another time. All in all i am pleased with it so far and just hope I don't kill it in the final few operations. A few pictures follow.


----------



## rake60

Being an Antique Briggs engine collector I can recognize every piece as being 
authentic. 

Keep them coming Bill! :bow:

May I offer another challenge?
I have this Briggs Model Y with a Serial number of 117494.
That would indicate a manufacture date of February 1935.






In a perfectly restored condition, at auction, it would bring about half the cost
of a new 9 X 20 lathe. In it's current condition, if it were to be modeled, I would 
consider a lower price. Like maybe shipping costs.  *(It IS heavy!)* 

Just something to consider.

Rick


----------



## Deanofid

Wow, Bill. You've made quite a bit of progress since my last check on your build. I missed one of the cylinder head posts, but am back up to speed!
The head is coming along very nice. The fuel tank is simply beautiful. Would be a shame to paint it!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Rick....as if the 6S isn't challenge enough!! :big: If I am successful with the 6S then the "Y" would be a nice project for sure. Wouldn't it be even harder to find any missing parts though? Not to mention finding and restoring a "big brother" to run alonside the 1/2 scale "Y" as I now hope to do with the 6S. ;D Is yours in decent enough shape to be able to dismantle for scaling purposes. Though the 6S project has a ways to go, if it gets to the point of your needing to make that "Y" disappear then give me a shout.

Dean...I have had the same thought...I am not sure I could bring myself to paint the model once finished. In my head I still see it as a polished brass, aluminum, steel, stainless, etc. which I think would be perfectly ok. What I have considered is maybe painting just the flywheel cover a nice shiny black and leave the rest in its present state. I will have a better idea once enough pieces are made to start doing some sub-assemblies. 

Thanks to you both for following along and offering your support!


----------



## kendo

Hi Bill
     I've been in the background for a while, but still keeping an eye on things
     from the start. what can i say fella, you are doing a fantastic job, and 
     such a brilliant write up, really enjoying following this post, gotta take my
     hat of to you buddy.

                       Ken


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Ken, its nice to know others have an interest in the project. Hope to have a little more to post later today.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

It doesn't look like an afternoons work but most of the refinements to the head were done. Still left is lowering the height of two of the fins, blending the two different depths of the valve recesses and piston recess. rounding the edges of the fins, and doing something to eliminate some of the machine marks. Hopfully these will be finished shortly. This part has worn me down and I am ready to move on to something else for a while. I did order the 6-32 hex head bolts today that will eventually connect the head to the crankcase.


----------



## Deanofid

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> This part has worn me down and I am ready to move on to something else for a while.



I'll bet. There's a lot of work in it.
You need some lathe work for a change of pace, Bill.

Works for me!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

My sentiments exactly Dean !! Lathe?? Whats a lathe? Actually I have a few lathe items to do next...finish the cylinder liner bore and hone it, make the piston rings, thanks to some helpful advice from Doug Kelly (designer of the Snow Tandem model), and the little muffler which should be straightforward. After that then the connecting rod so the mill wont feel too deserted.


----------



## slick95

Moving right along Bill,

Keep at it, I always look forward to your updates...   

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Jeff. I'm not happy with this part yet but its mainly cosmetic at this point so it will get there. I think it will look better with the spark plug and bolt heads in place even if only for a photo op...lol.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Bill, I think the lathe gets a guy back to "normal". Kind of does for me, at least.
I look at the lathe as my best gal. The mill is more like my sister. I love it, but we fuss at each other sometimes. Kind of demanding now and then, and quite opinionated. 

That's my anthropomorphizing for the day.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Well said Dean...I knew when I saw your pic in the Men and their Machines thread there was an anthropomorphiz-er in there somewhere ;D. Actually My first thought was that it looked like a photo of an author you might find on the back flyleaf of a book cover. Very dignified and "Faulkner-esque" sitting out there on the veranda, even if you aren't a southerner :big:

Anyway, the mill and I had indeed had a fuss and a few choice words. After two days of rotary table/dial test indicator/mill work... the %^&*$ 3/32 end mill decided to dig in on the LAST radius cut. Fortunately it wasn't too bad and just a cosmetic defect but I was still ticked off!! And then somewhere in the grand scheme of creation there came into being JB Weld, which in my opinion is far and away better then duct tape for just about anything. But the downside was that i had to look at the defect for 24 hours while the stuff fully cured before making the cut again. Also fortunate is that it is on the intake valve side of the head cover, less heat than the exhaust side I hope, and on the underside where no one will ever see it. But I still know it is there :-[. If you look closely at the last photo above you can see the blemish in the lower left hand corner. So.....yes....I need some normalcy for a short spell anyway.

Which leads me to a question on materials.....

Was thinking of making the muffler out of stainless but then thought about it being screwed into an aluminum block (different rates of expansion, dis-similar metals in a hot and chemically charged area with exhaust gases, etc.) What do you IC guys think of that? Would another material choice be more appropriate? Or there is the possibility of using stainless for the muffler and aluminum for the 10-15 degree elbow that connects it to the block, but then there is still the muffler/elbow connection. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.


Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Its been a few days and the head is pretty much finished. Couldn't help but see how it lookes with the plug and bolts in place. Aside from that I got the cylinder liner bore finished and honed. After finding a suitable piece of stainless for the outer muffler casing work has begun on it as well as the inner core. Pictures of the muffler will be forthconing shortly. Below are a couple of the finished head and lined bore.


----------



## Deanofid

That head is a beauty, Bill. Sure looks good!
What did you use to round over the very corners of the fins so nice?

Dean


----------



## slick95

Great finish work on the cylinder head, Bill :bow: :bow: :bow:

Looks super with the plug and bolts. 

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean,
I just used a flat needle file and then some 320 grit sandpaper. There isn't enough clearence between the fin tops and the surface of the head for much else. On top of that the front two fins are lower in height as per the prototype. Still a bit unhappy with a few remaining tool marks so I may try bead blasting the top of the head or just paint the head with some hi temp glossy black engine paint. Thanks for checking in. I am enjoying your build thread too!!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Jeff, you snuck in a post as I was writing. I appreciate your support and didn.t want you to think i was ignoring it at all.

Bill


----------



## joe d

Bill

I've been following along from the beginning without saying much, but just have to pipe up and say WOW. That's looking really good.
Looking forward to more!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Joe....Hope you will stay tuned....I am hoping to have some progress pictures on the muffler by this evening.

Bill


----------



## IronHorse

Great job you are doing on this engine. I have always wanted to do a 1/2 scale model of my Johnson Ironhorse, but I think I will wait until I get a couple of simpler IC engines under my belt.

IronHorse


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks IronHorse. This is my first IC so I am having to learn a new mindset for some things, even though the basic machining processes are similar. I probably should have picked something simpler, but what the heck...I think it will be an interesting model once done, and hopefully interesting to others.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

OK guys...please allow me one last couple of pics of the cylinder head. I bead blasted the top side this morning and am finally happy with the results. The remaining tool marks had been driving me crazy, but now I think the matte finish from the blasting makes it look even more like a casting. Now I can more on without this nagging me from the completed parts shelf. I promise this will be it on this part.


----------



## Deanofid

Well, if it was bothering you, I'm glad you got it taken care of, Bill. : )
You're right, it really does look good, and even better than before, although I was already impressed the way it was!

Very nice.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

I found another piece of stainless for the outer part of the muffler...already had a piece for the inner core. I am working on the inner core first. The octagonal hole pattern will be copied on the other end as well and matches closely the pattern in the prototype. As best as I can tell without disecting the full size muffler, the exhaust gasses will enter the end shown below (the threads are for the elbow that will attach it to the exhaust port on the crankcase). Since ther is no through hole the gasses will be forced out through the holes and into the void between the core and outer casing...travel along this void to the exit end and then be forced through matching holes into the exit end of the core and finally out. I am hoping the stainless will hold up well over time.


----------



## slick95

Good going Bill 

I like to see the comparison pictures between the big and little engine parts.

Keep up the build...lots of fun!!!

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Jeff. When I get a little closer on the muffler I will post another big and little picture.


----------



## slick95

Heck Bill,

I just scrolled up (missed it before)and saw the pictures of the bead blasted head. Now that looks Great!   

What a cool engine this is forming into...

Jeff


----------



## lee9966

This is a fantastic build, I love seeing the comparison of model and full size parts. ;D


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for following along Jeff and Lee. I will continue with the comparison pictures as additional parts are done. I should be finished with the muffler tonight except for silver soldering it together so please check back for that. 

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

With the exception of soldering it together, making the elbow, the the square locking nut, the muffler is finished. All in all this was a straightforward and fun part to make. A few pictures follow:


----------



## b.lindsey

Here are a few size reference and comparison pictures:


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## Deanofid

I like this build so much. That's just really nice work you did on the muffler, Bill. Looks great!

I see you used stainless for it, and on your Sherline, too. It looks like the tangential tool worked very well.
What type of stainless are you using? 

Dean


----------



## slick95

Really nice Bill. Finish looks very smooth.

And of course the comparison pictures top it off. This build continues to get more and more interesting.

Jeff


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## b.lindsey

Dean, I know the core tube is 316 stainless. The outer shell material was a scrap piece i had but most likely 316 as well. I must confess that a lot of the rough machining was done at work on a JET 13 x 40 lathe, including drilling the core from both sides ( 3/8 on one side and letter Q on the other for a 3/8-24 tapped hole) and drilling a 7/16" through the blank for the outer shells. My Sherline tailstock chuck can't handle more than a 1/4" drill. All the other work was done on the Sherline though...boring out the shells, finishing the OD on both shell halves, and making the overlapping joint in the middle. The tangential toolholder works very well even on stainless, and i use it a lot! For boring, i use an A.R. Warner boring bar with HSS inserts I picked up at Cabin Fever a few years ago. They make some nice stuff!!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Jeff...the comparison pic was at your request . I was pleased with the finish and with the stainless, this little guy should outlive me!!

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Just some finish up work on the muffler this morning, didn't go as well as planned. That little elbow fitting game me fits. After three (or was it four) attempts to bend it and distorting it beyond use in the process I finally tried cutting almost through it with a Dremel cut-off disk and soldering it. The little square keeper nut went better. This afternoon and tomorrow I hope to get a start on the connecting rod.


----------



## b.lindsey

Here's the finished bits and final sub-assembly.


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## Speedy

WOW Bill.
great job! 
 :bow:


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Speedy. Here are a few pics of today's work, not too much but got a start on the connecting rod. Looks like it gonna be another tedious part!


----------



## Deanofid

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> Looks like it gonna be another tedious part!



From the looks of your previous progress, Bill, I think you're just the man for the job.
Looking good thus far!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean, actually your work on the Duplex got me inspired to begin on the Con Rod. Just hope I can do half as good a job as you've bone thus far. Anxiously awaiting your further progress too!!

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Not much to show after a week but still some progress on the con rod. As I suspected this is one tedious part and todays work felt more like carving than machining. The angle table came in very handy for tapering the side edges from .500 down to .250 (well one side is done in the last pic below). After getting this far today, i hung it up before making a non-fixable error. It still looks a little rough but is taking on the shape of the original gradually.


----------



## Deanofid

Rods, arms, and linkages are often pretty intricate and time consuming unless you're just making one of the flat kind with a couple of holes in it. I can see the time you've put into this already, Bill. It has a number of different shapes and angles for a small part. Good going!

I think some filing buttons will come in handy for your finish work.

Thanks for the new pics!

Dean


----------



## ksouers

The parts are looking great, Bill. Obviously you are putting much effort into the details, much more than I have the patience for. One would be hard pressed to tell the difference without a size reference.


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Kevin. Based on todays pictures, you are being overly kind, I'll try to get some better ones tomorrow after some more work. It would have been easy to simplify this part since it will never be seen, but then that defeats the goal I began with of making it as true to the original as my capabilities allow. Anyway, thanks for the kind words and the confidence.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

A little more work this morning and its slowly taking shape. Still need to hollow out the side walls, chamfer the crank hole, add the oil groove and do some rounding on the cap piece and then it will be down to filing and sanding to make it look more finished. Bead blasting on the non-running areas might be just the trick too. At least it can cover up some microscopic "sins".


----------



## rake60

I'm totally enjoying the step by step progress updates here Bill.

Please keep them coming!

Rick


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Rick, glad you are still checking in to keep me straight .

Still got that "Y" ?? At this rate I might be wanting it in a year or so ;D ;D

Bill


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## rake60

Oh Yeah!

The Y is still here. 
When you are ready for it let me know. 
I'd be more than happy to donate it to a modeling effort.

Rick


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## slick95

Yeah Bill,

Enjoy the picture updates   

You're making progress...

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Today I got the side reliefs milled into the con rod but had to make a small fixture first to hold it steady Tomorrow I hope to get the rounding done on the cap and a few other finish details like narrowing the wrist pin end. So far it has been left at the .500 width to match the crank end to facilitate keeping things flat in various set-uos. Not a lot of progress I know...if I could just figure out how to keep the grass from growing and needing mowing it would help!!


----------



## slick95

I hate that grass...wish I could afford to Pave the yard 

Con Rod looking great Bill...

Jeff


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Jeff. Hmmmm....paving huh? Not sure the neighbors would appreciate that. Maybe some astroturf...now there's an idea ;D

Bill


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## Deanofid

It's gettin' there, Bill. Lots of setups in that one!

A few gallons of kerosene will take care that silly lawn.. "Gee honey, the grass just up and died!"

Happy spraying.

Dean


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## zeeprogrammer

Well the con-rod hooked me again.
I had to go through the entire thread and re-enjoy the pictures and excellent work.
The detail and photos are awesome.
Thanks.

Oh...a small apology...I ran across my own post and was aghast to see I'd called you by a different name. I've corrected that.

As for astro-turfing a yard...I've seen it done. But to be fair...I think the guy was tired of mowing a 45 degree slope.


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for the nice comments zee. I am still following your nice build as well. As for the yard, I have no excuse...its pretty flat, darn it! Now as for the name thing...I think I recall noticing that but figured it was just a slip so no apology needed. Heck, I'm just happy anyone is interested!!


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## b.lindsey

I think the only thing that got lost in the server transition were the pics below that I posted yesterday and a couple of responses to other's posts.

The first pic is of the con rod fitted temporarily to the piston and the second is a 3D model of the flywheel cover I hope to rapid prototype prior to machining the actual piece.

In response to arnold's post (which apparently is lost too), thanks for the encouragement.

In response to gbritnell's post (also lost), I like the idea of the teflon buttons for the wrist pin and will keep that in mind if plan 1 doesn't work out. I had found some 1/4" internal retaining rings at Lowe's the other week and hace a very small cutter to make the grooves for them so am hoping to try that approach first, mainly because it more closely duplicates the prototype which had spring wire retainers at both ends of the wrist pin. Will post progress on that as it is done.

I apologize if I am leaving anyone out here and thanks to all who are following the thread.


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## 4156df

Having had one of these engines as a kid, I know what all the parts look like. I keep thinking there's no way you can fabricate this or that part and you always prove me wrong! Great work! Now I'm thinking there's no way you're going to build that shroud. Can't wait for you to show us how it's done.
Dennis


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Dennis....I have a lot of head scratching sessions too, or just sitting and staring at parts hoping for something to dawn on me which it usually doesn't :big: Such is the case with the shroud as well. I had thought about trying it out of sheet brass but to get all the proper radii, soldering it up wont work. Then I though about an english wheel perhaps..."gee honey...I need this little wheel thingy to make this part"...nah, that wouldn't get too far either. My present thinking is to just machine it from solid aluminum. The thickness won't be to scale but the exterior appearance should be close. Still can't help but think how nice a bright shiney brass shroud would look but without actually die stamping it i just don't see a way to do that.


----------



## 4156df

Have you considered making a wood forming block and forming brass over that? It'd take a lot of annealing steps though.
Dennis


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## b.lindsey

I did think about that Dennis, but i can machine it from a chunk of aluminum about as fast as making the wood forming block. Keep in mind that the overall dimensions are only 5.188" top to bottom and 3.75" wide at the widest portion. Part of the reason for making a rapid prototype of it is to just look at it in 3D form rather than from the 2D drawing. And for now its just a one off also. I do appreciate the suggestion though as I certainly don't have all the answers by any means.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

I did manage to get the shroud on the RP machine and have added a few pics below for size comparison...one with the obligatory M&M (its even blue for you zee). It may take a lot of whittling but I still think its quite doable out of solid aluminum.


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## arnoldb

Hi Bill - thanks for mentioning the missing post.

Have you considered making the shroud from 2 separate brass plates - soldered together ? - Silver solder would be best...
Just a thought, as it looks like that should be doable as well - one "strip" with rounded corners and bent into a "U" shape, and the other plate for the top and back...

Whittling the ally would work as well 

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Arnold,
That was my first thought actually, my concern was that the corners would not be beefy enough to come back and radius them to scale. I even though of adding an quarter round piece of brass (on the inside) where the side and top joins which would allow additional material for radiusing the joint later on...but whittling from a solid still seems to me to be easier and preferrable in the long run.

Got to admit even the plastic RP model is a cute little bugger...when i get home tonight I want to see how it looks fitted over the flywheel, starter hub and screen.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Just a quick shot of the temporary shroud shown with the flywheel and starter hub.Whether by design or luck the mesh screen on the starter hub fits perfectly in the shroud opening.


----------



## rake60

*I don't know how you do it, but this thread just keeps getting better!*

How you can replicate those parts has me amazed!

Please keep the updates coming.

Rick


----------



## Deanofid

That mock up looks so good, Bill. I will be very interesting to see how you cut up the metal part.
I'd be tempted to use the RP piece. It came out nice.

Does the prototype-er work like a router/plotter type machine, putting layers of material down to form the piece?

Dean


----------



## kustomkb

Some pretty slick parts your turning out Bill.

I've really been enjoying your progress.

Thanks.


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Rick, but in case you didn't notice the shroud is just a temporary replica. The actual part will be of aluminum and hopefully come out as well as the 3D printed part. Truth is the RP part would probably work just fine and a rather large headache would be out of the way, but then if someone wanted to build one, they would be out of luck unless they had a printer handy. This week I have been keeping both of our printers at the school running 24 hours a day with senior design projects. Truly amazing machines...they can make anything you can draw. As info, the shroud took just under 3 hours to run, not instant by any means but definitely quicker than it will take to make the permanent part.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Kustom, progress is a relative term and I wish it were going faster, but now that the semester is nearly over, I should have a little more time to devote to the B&S.

Dean, you are correct....our machines slice a part into .010" layers and then lay down am extruded strand of plastic along the contour for that individual layer. In every case any outer and inner perimeters are laid down first and then filled in between to complete the layer, all computer controlled. Multiple parts can be made at once but each layer has to be completed for every part before subsequent layers can begin.

Another reson for not using the RP part is that I'm not sure it can stand the heat and/or vibration over extended periods of time.

Bill


----------



## mu38&Bg#

The durability of an RP part depends on the method and material used to produce it. Years ago they were making intake manifolds for engines in SLA machines and running them under the hoods of cars. 10 years ago I had a 2" diameter fan rotor made by the FDM process as described above in ABS and I've run it at over 60,000 RPM. Today they are using lasers to sinter powdered metal into parts virtually as good as cast or machined.

Fun stuff, but costly. I would expect a quote for a part like that shroud to be 200-300USD using FDM.


----------



## b.lindsey

Dieselpilot,
As you noted, this was done by the FDM method in ABS. With 3.5 cu.in. of material used, the direct cost would be around $20-25 but of course that doesn't include overhead for the machine, maintenance, etc. Even if it could be done commercially for $100, that's a bit pricey and would turn folks away I am sure. That is the main reason I want to replicate it by more conventional means.

Bill


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Absolutely. If it were me, I'd make it in fiberglass and epoxy.


----------



## Rustkolector

Many years ago there was a group of model builders that built a dozen or so Briggs and Stratton model FH engines in half scale from patterns made by Norm Brockelsby. I have only seen one of these engines, but I remember that the air shroud on the model FH was made of cast brass. It was a very true likeness of the original shroud, but obviously was made thicker due to the casting process. Unless you looked closely, or tapped on the shroud it was hard to tell it was cast. The external finish was polished smooth. Your mockup shroud method could be revised to make a good lost wax type casting pattern. Brass foundries are not usually hard to find. Good ones are a bit harder to find. 

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Jeff, that is also a good idea and you are correct that the FDM RP method can readily be used forcasting patterns with minimal changes to the 3D models for draft, shrinkage, etc. This entire engine lends itself to castings and at some point I may look into that but then there would have to be a market for it too to make it worthwhile. Meanwhile, as time permits I am developing 3D drawings as well as the 2D working drawings. Thanks to you and others for all the ideas!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Several hours today were spent doing some very light milling and a lot of hand filing to finish up the con rod, wrist pin retainers, and final reaming/countersinking/oil groove cutting in the split crank pin hole. Picture 1 shows the whole sub-assembly. Picture 2 shows the additional contouring (mostly filed) on the lower end of the con rod. Picture 3 shows the teeny internal retaining ring installed on one side of the wrist pin. Finally Picture 4 shown the size of the cutter abd the remaining retaining ring.


----------



## b.lindsey

Monday I want to bead blast the con rod as a final finishing step but now on to other things. Tomorrow I hope to start on the rings for the piston and maybe the small oil flicker arm and keeper that fit on the lower end of the con rod so the whole sub-assembly can be finished. One other picture for today and that is of all the bits and pieces done thus far.


----------



## Deanofid

Oh, the con rod ended up really nice, Bill. The factory guys have nothing on you!

Nice 'family' shot.

Dean


----------



## Maryak

Bill,

The piston and conrod are works of art. :bow: Not to mention the whole engine. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## b.lindsey

Dean and Bob,
Thanks for checking in. The "family" shot still looks a little sparse but still growing at least. 

Bill


----------



## Speedy

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> Monday I want to bead blast the con rod as a final finishing step but now on to other things. Tomorrow I hope to start on the rings for the piston and maybe the small oil flicker arm and keeper that fit on the lower end of the con rod so the whole sub-assembly can be finished. One other picture for today and that is of all the bits and pieces done thus far.



hi Bill that is a great shot! 
following with great interest.
Michael :bow:


----------



## Noitoen

:idea:To make the shroud out of thin aluminium :hDe:, you could use the temporary part to cast a male/female mould out of epoxy and then press a thin sheet of aluminium. Not the whole part, just the curved back side, then a rim around would finish it off with some soft aluminium solder discussed somewhere else in this site. scratch.gif


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Speedy, I did blast the con rod today and it looks ever better now i think.

Noitoen...I think at a minimum, the shroud needs to be 1/16" thick...that might form well enough, especially the soft aluminum sheet stock, but would have to factor in the time and cost of making the epoxy mold halves and making the solder joints still worries me some as far as getting all the edges rounded properly. I am sure with some practice the overall approach might work well, but it might take a few attempts to get there. I am too much a perfectionist, especially on a part that visible. Thanks for suggesting the idea though.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Its been a few days and nothing new to report really since I have been out of town for 4 days and thus, no shop time  I did tak a few shots of the piston and con rod after bead blasting though and include them here. Now that I'm back, i will be finishing up the oil splashing finger for the con rod and starting on the shroud this week. I have a lot of catching up to do on many of the other threads too.

Thanks for looking in.


----------



## 4156df

Bill,

The bead blast is just the right touch. It's a shame to have to hide this part inside the crankcase. Maybe you need to sneak in a viewing port. 

Dennis

P.S. The two center pops reminded me of my Dad, gone for many years. He taught me to always mark the cap and rod with a center punch so they'd go back together in the same orientation. Funny how little things can take you back.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dennis. I know it will be hidden but at least I will know whats inside. Even with a viewport I'm not sure much could be seen as there will be a lot of oil splashing around in the crankcase, but its a thought anyway. I still like nice shiney parts but for some the bead blaster has worked very well in replicating a nice cast look...most notable the cylinder head and the con rod.

Thanks for checking in. I am hopeful that over the summer, progress will accelerate.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

It's a work of art, Bill. Craftsmanship, even if hidden inside a crankcase, is still craftsmanship.
Someday, we will all be gone, and some museum fellow will be taking this apart to clean it. He's going to see that the inside is just as nice as the outside and he'll think to himself, "This guy did nice work!".

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean, 
Actually I think I should be taking lessons from you but if someday, someone were to say that, I can certainly think of worse epitaphs. For now...I am just happy to have gotten this far without too many major scrap box additions :big: 

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Had some good shop time today and tackled the piston rings using a no heat treat method which Doug Kelly (Snow Tandem Engine) told me about and uses exclusively now. This was my first attempt at making rings so there was more than a fair amount of nervousness. I roughed out the OD and ID of the short piece of cast iron on the big lathe at work...could have been done on the Sherline but would have taken a lot longer. The final finishing cuts were made on the Sherline however, bringing the OD to the bore size of 1.000" + .030 and the ID to about .875"

After that Iparted off 2 sets of rings (hoping that would be enough). Each set has 2 compression rings and 1 oil ring. This is shown in photos 1 and 2 below. Next a .030 slottint saw was used to cut a gap in each ring as shown in photo 3.


----------



## b.lindsey

With the ring blanks done, a simple fixture was made so that the gap could be closed and held closed between the two halves of the fixture. A shoulder was turned on the chucked side of the fixture to hold the ring approximately centered while the OD was turned to the 1.000" bore size. This is shown in the photos below.


----------



## b.lindsey

After turning the OD, releasing the holding pressure of the fixture allows the ring to spring back open, but the ID still has to be machined. The next step of this method, and no doubt others, is to make a sleeve that the rings will very snugly fit into, again holding the gap closed meaning that the ID of the sleeve matches the OD if the rings at 1.000" The original bore of the ring blanks was apprx. .875" and the final ID needed was .902" Since the 2 compression rings are .040" thick and the oil ring is .094 thick, the sleeve was turned to the 1.000"diameter for a depth of only .094" leaving a slight internal shoulder to act as a back stop and very fine cuts were taken since only the snugness of the fit was holding the rings in the sleeve. In this case it worked well and the rings didn't even try to slip inside the sleeve. Both the fixture and the sleeve were made of aluminum. The first two photos show the sleeve and the third photo shows one of the finished rings...after 320 grit paper was used with some elbow grease to bring the final ring thickness to the required .040" (or .094" for the oil ring).


----------



## b.lindsey

I would like to say that the whole process went without a hitch and it pretty much did, but one of the compression rings was killed while turning the OD. I think insufficient pressure allowed the gap to open slightly and the tool bit grabbed it and the sudden stress snapped it. A second compression ring broke during installation on the piston, likely due to some overeagerness on my part. I was happy I had cut the two extras since I ended up needing them. Other than that I breathed a huge sigh of relief when the third ring finally snapped into place on the piston. The three installed rings are shown in photo 1. The other three photos show the piston fitted into the cast iron cylinder liner and I was very pleased with the fit. Obviously it will need some running in to seat the rings and to better lap in the cylinder bore, but for now the piston slides in the liner (with a good coating of oil) with what seems a "just right" amount of friction.

Thanks for checking in.


----------



## Deanofid

Just like the full sized example. Excellent work, Bill, and great work in writing it up, too.
Sure is looking good.  (And still marveling at that fabulous piston rod.)

Dean


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Beautiful. And like Dean said...great posts.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Zee...and Dean too. Hope you are seeing the light at the end of that mulch tunnel zee, I'm anxious to see more of your little engine too...its looking great so far.

Bill


----------



## arnoldb

Great work Bill - this engine will be a little beauty! I like your way of cold-forming of the rings.

Regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold. Obvioiusly if this engine were going to be run for thousands of hours, this method might not be the best, but for model use and ease of making the rings, Doug swears by this method now. I guess if they ever do wear out, I'll just make some new ones. 

I did forget to mention in the earlier posts...the oil ring still has to be drilled in 8 places as does the oil ring groove in the piston to allow oil to pass from the crankcase through the piston and oil ring to the cylinder wall.

Bill


----------



## mu38&Bg#

I like this method to make rings. Thanks for posting. I'm going to try it. Did you put a groove in the oil ring face? The project looks excellent.


----------



## b.lindsey

Greg, I did not...mainly due to concern over weakening the already thin ring prior to "stretching" it in order to get it over the piston and into the groove. Same reason as to not drilling the holes in advance. I plan on drilling the holes with the ring on the piston in a similar fixture to the one used for finishing the ring ID. I may try to come up with something else along that same line to put a shallow groove in it as well. That would definitely make the oil flow more evenly. Good observation though and if you have any suggestions and experiences along this line I am all ears . I am wondering just how effective the oil ring will be and whether that is typical for other model IC engines.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Also along the lines of lubrication the little "finger" thingy which attaches to the bottom of the con rod to thrash the oil about on each revolution was made yesterday and is shown in the top two photos below. Actually the B & S service manual calls this a "dipper" which makes sense i suppose. The two socket head cap screws which have been used thus far will be replaced with hex cap screws as soon as i order them and make a thin brass "keeper" as in the prototype to supposedly keep them from loosening under opperating conditions. That should be a real trick to make out of some .009" brass shim stock. The last pic is a very rouched out block from which the main crankcase is to be fabricated.


----------



## tel

The whole thing is a remarkable piece of work Bill, I've delved into the innards of quite a few Briggs' in my time, and your parts appear to be indistinguishable.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for the kind words Tel. Looks are one thing and have been one of my goals from the start...I just hope the darn thing will work and that looming question is still a ways out there. Way too much time to end up with a static model for sure!! 

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Static model?
Why would you think such a thing, Bill?
You're making it just like an engine, so, it will do just like and engine, 'cause it is one!
That's how it works.

I remember the first time I saw the dipper on a B&S engine. I couldn't figure what on earth it was for.
Was about 10 at the time. Dad explained it to me, and then put the engine back together...

This will run, Bill. The way you're going, you won't have any trouble with the mechanicals. Carb might
be hard to scale, but you'll get it!

Dean


----------



## rake60

Beautiful scale reproduction of the connecting rod Bill! :bow:

An NOS, "New Old Stock" connecting rod for that engine sells for 
somewhere between $25 and $55 USD.

If you'll make them, I'll sell them!

I know it isn't about a profit for you and I have no interest in any
personal, monetary gains here. 

I'm just pointing out........ 

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks again Dean for the vote of confidence. I couldn't ever be satisfied until it does work. Mostly i have concerns since this is my first IC engine and I have no idea how forgiving the mechanicals can be as compared to the compressed air/stirling engines I am far more familiar with. Another concern is the greater forces acting on and in the components from a wear standpoint. Far different that a few psi of air pressure I would imagine. 

The carb doesn't worry me much from a modeling standpoint. Whether the modeled version will actually work as well I don't know yet, but I don't know why it shouldn't as long as it will siphon from the tank.

Don't worry, I have no plans on giving up or giving in whatever it takes. After all, its just getting to the fun stage!!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Rick, given the amount of time in that part (from bar stock) even $55 would be a losing proposition. Now if it could be done from a casting like the original,about 95% of the machining could be eliminated.

Too bad there isn't a NOS half scale con rod out there, I would have given a pretty penny for one of those :big:

Bill


----------



## joe d

Bill

Can't add anything to the carburetor discussion, as I know next to nothing about it... so I will address something I do know:

This project is outstanding! Still following happily along.

Thanks, Joe


----------



## b.lindsey

Joe, thanks so much for folowing along and for your kind comments.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

After a short haitus, have been able to spend a little time in the shop though its been miserably hot and humid. While drawing work continues on the main housing, I have done some minor layout work on the plate that fits on the flywheel side of the housing and to which the shroud (flywheel cover) will be attached. Unfortunately this proved to be a bit large for the Sherline and my 4" RT so the RT work will have to wait until tomorrow at work on the full size mill and 10" RT. Meanwhile there is a small aluminum cover that fits to this plate beneath the flywheel which covers the points and condenser in the full size engine. This was a nice little job for the Sherline lathe and was fairly straightforward, hence no machining photos. The photos below, show the layout of the plate, front and back views of the small inner cover with the original part, and how it will eventually fit into the scheme of things. I hope to pick the pace back up so for those following along, thanks for your patience.


----------



## slick95

Good to see ya back at it Bill...

I was thinking about your build yesterday and thought of pinging you but you beat me too it.

Jeff


----------



## Deanofid

Yes, it's good to see you got more shop time, Bill. The new parts look good, as always!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Jeff and Dean. Shop time got curtailed this afternoon as we have had tickets for months for the Charlotte presentation of the musical "Wicked," and that was a most pleasant diversion. I'll be back at it tomorrow getting the rough outline of the plate cut out. Thanks for checking in!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Just a couple of progress pictures on the cover plate. Its roughed out and hope to get the mounting holes and other cutouts done today. The top pic shows cutting the top arc where the top of the flywheel cover will fit near the head cover. The second pic is after cutting the bottom radius and pasting the template to the aluminum as a rough guide, hopefully so I don't do something dumb. ;D


----------



## b.lindsey

Does anyone know of a good source for small oil seals in quantities of under 10 pieces? Will be needing to seal against a shaft size of 7/16" and an OD in the neighborhood of 5/8". Or would a simple o-ring suffice? The 7/16" shaft size seems to be the problem...the usual sources like McMaster have 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" and then jump up to 1/2"

Bill


----------



## 1Kenny

Hi Bill,

Try Aircraft Spruce.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?query=an6227&searchsubmit=Search&search=1

The part number is AN6227B-9 o-ring 7/16 id and 5/8 od.

Kenny


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Kenny. Given that it is just a splash lubrication system, an o-ring may be all thats needed. I had been looking for a lip type seal and found them in 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" and 1/2" but no 7/16"

Bill


----------



## rklopp

An O-ring will not survive long as a high-speed rotating seal unless the squeeze is nil. Otherwise, there's too much frictional heat. I was surprised to find that my Aciera mill uses an O-ring as the seal for the spindle nose. However, there is no radial squeeze on the O-ring, and the spindle is grease lubricated, so the seal has an easy time keeping lube in. Mostly it's to keep dirt out.


----------



## kustomkb

Just got caught up.


Super nice work Bill !!


----------



## GailInNM

NAPA has some 7/16 seals, but most of them are about 7/8 OD.

<http://catalog2.genpt.com/catviewer...29786&Nao=30&Ne=1000000&Ns=P_LongDescription>

They have one that has a shaft size of 0.433 with a smaller OD near 5/8 if you have any flexability in that range.

That being said, I have a simple o-ring seal on an air feed on an CNC lathe that has about 1500 hours on it and it is just starting to leak a little bit now. Minimum compression on the o-ring and 80 psi of lubricated air that it is sealing. It is 5/8 ID but I don't remember how much compression I used. It ran a little bit warm for the first hour or so of operation then settled down. I have never pulled it apart to check it. Nominal RPM that I run at is 3200.

Gail in NM


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks rklopp,Kustom, and Gail. There is some design flexibility in this area but I am leaning to the o-ring idea at the moment with minimal pressure on the shaft. There will be a drain hole between the outer end of the bushing and the seal so any oil that comes through the bushing should drain back into the crankcase. There also appears to be a vent from the crankcase to the inside of the valve pushrod enclosure to minimize any pressure buildup inside the crankcase (see photo). I have also noted on the cover for this area that there is a small slit venting this chamber to the outside. Hmmmm...the plot thickens as they say.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Bill, I looked around for seals but didn't find them in 7/16 x 5/8". If you can fudge a little,
this place has metric in 12 x 16 mm, (about .472" x .630").  You'd have to make your crankshaft dia a little larger, but the OD is very close. Don't know how many you have to buy from them:
http://www.epm.com/pg23.htm

If that metric size will do, SKF also shows them, and NAPA sells SKF seals. You could buy just one!

SKF also makes 7/16 x 11/16". Just a 1/16" larger on the OD than you are asking about. Can you make the seal bore that much larger? They are a stock SKF p.n. Oh, 1/8" thick.
Check out this page. Punch in .438 for the ID and it will give you all the standard p.n.'s for that size shaft.
http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/popup_parts_lookup_457010.htm

Dean


----------



## Jared

Beautiful work!

Check this page out out. http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catalog.do?e=2&c=3256

I found one that was pretty darn close. .624" OD, .437" ID x .125" wide.


----------



## rake60

That is the crankcase breather in your photo Bill.
It is just a very simple little check valve.

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for the resources Jared amd Dean. Between the two sites I think I can find something that will work. 

Rick, thanks for the clarification also.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

A wee bit of progress on the plate. The larger circle in the center bottom remains to be bored out depending on what i decide on or can find in the way of bushings/bearings/seals. The studs for mounting the breaker/condenser cover (from previous post) and the studs for mounting the coil will be added separately. Even though the coil will not be used I am planning on making a fake one for appearance pusposes only. Thanks for checking in.


----------



## arnoldb

You are cracking along very well on this engine now Bill - great work! :bow:

Regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold....seems like a snail's pace to me, especially compared to some here, but doing what I can, when i can.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Wow, you had a lot of milling passes to make on that part, Bill. 
You might not think it's going very fast, but every piece you do has a lot
of work in it!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

You are right Dean. I wish they didn't show as much but I can liive with it since it will all be hidden anyway. I was anxious to get home and try fitting things together just to make sure there weren't any major screwups. So far so good. Of course I'm still using the RP produced cover for now Here's a few pics of the fitting session. More tomorrow and over the weekend after I do something with that pesky green stuff growing in the yard. :big: Thanks to all who are following along.

Bill

Edit: Not sure why the first pic looks so squatty ??


----------



## Deanofid

Bill, I didn't mean anything bad about the milling lines. I just mean that they showed you had to do a 
great deal of cutting to get the piece into shape.

Maybe the 'squatty' shot is just some slight angle of the camera when the pic was made.
Lets just hope that doesn't stick as some kind of nick name!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

I knew you didn't mean it in a bad way Dean. Once again the bead blaster kind of evened things out but its hard to fool the camera !! There is some additional work to be done yet on the plate, but i hope to start today on getting the main housing block squared up and flycut to its overall required dimensions.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

On the back of the plate there is a thingy that holds the flywheel side bushing and aligns it with the opening in the crankcase. It has two tapered reinforcing ribs and a third one that is not tapered so as to catch the internal oil splash and direct it down through a hole to the ID of the bushing to lubricate it. Other than some basic turning to bring the brass down to size, it was mostly a matter of lots of rotary table work. The bore was left about .010" indersized to be fit to the bushing when it arrives. The oil hole will also wait until the bushing is installed. The bushing will extend slightly beyond the base of this part and insert into the bolster on the plate itself (see previous posts) to maintain alighnemt and this part will be attached to the plate via fasteners. This will no doubt be clearer when the parts can be assembled. Anyway here are a few pictures of this small but critical part.


----------



## b.lindsey

The final two pictures show the tapered ribs and the non-tapered rib which will catch and divert the oil splash. I still have to part it off from thr stock piece of brass. Thanks for checking in !


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Nice.
Interesting too. Even though my experience is pretty limited...I don't see setups like that very often. Always amazes me what people can do.


----------



## Deanofid

That's an interesting piece for a roundy-round thingy. I'll have to wait until you put it in the engine
to see what you described. Lot of work in it! Nicely done, as always, Bill.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Zee and Dean,

I know the description is hard to follow, I will post a pic of the full size one tonight, where it's located and how it fits into the crankcase...just didn't have them handy when these photos were taken.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Here is a photo of the full size crankcase and the back of the cover plate. The bushing holder/oil catcher piece in my last post will be a slip fit into the large opening on the side of the crankcase, just as it is in the prototype. I hope this clarifies my rather poor word description earlier...something about a picture being worth a thousand words  ;D


----------



## arnoldb

Bill, that last "thingy" you made is a seriously neat piece of work :bow:

How did you set your RT to the angle ? - I'm very curious, as some ideas I have in mind will also require a setup like that. So far, the best idea that's popped into my head is to make a swivel plate to do it...

Regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Arnold,
It doesn't show well in the pictures so hopefully those below will show it better. The RT is mounted to an angle plate which I got from Sherline as shown in photo 1. It comes with a 3/4-16 adapter so that the lathe chuck can be screwed directly to it. It also comes predrilled with the hold down patterns for the RT and the mill vise with or without its rotating base. The RT is shown in the second photo similar to the way it was set up for making this "thingy" part. Certainly you could make an angle plate or buy others on the market but one  of the things I appreciate most about Sherline is the integration of all of the accessories. In this case I could turn the diameter of the part on the lathe, mill out the pockets between the ribs and angle cut two of the three ribs without ever having to remove the stock from the chuck. That can be a huge advantage at times when concentricity must be maintained and when you don't wish to re-indicate a part in the lathe chuck for further operations.

Hope this answers your question.


----------



## Deanofid

Thanks for the extra pic, Bill. Wasn't your word description. I just have a hard time visualizing at times.
Sometimes, I just need to see a thing to make it come to life. Sometimes, gotta lay hands on it!

Dean


----------



## arnoldb

Thanks very much for the explanation and the extra photo Bill  - MUCH appreciated!

Another tooling project for my long "to build list" then :big:

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Its been way too hot in the garage to spend much time there but a few little odds and ends got done. The bushing holder got parted off and finished to the correct length, the mounting studs to attach the breaker/condenser cover to the plate were made and installed and these parts were trial fitted as shown below. I got the bushings ordered on Friday from McMaster, and the shaft seals ordered from Allied which was recommended a page or so back. I was surprised they accepted such a small order but so far so good. The bushings should arrive early in the week so the final boring of the holder and the bolster in the plate can be finished and these parts permanently attached. Between sweat sessions more drawing got done, thankfully inside in the AC Thats about it for now.


----------



## b.lindsey

Here are the front and back shots of the prototype and model. There are still a few details left on the model but nothing too tedious, Thanks for checking in.


----------



## b.lindsey

The bushings arrived Tuesday which allowed finishing uo the hole in the plate (photo 1) and the bushing holder (photos 2 & 3). Since the close fit of the bushing holder OD into the side of the crankcase will maintain alignment of the bushing, it was critical that the OD and bore for the bushing be concentric, hence the 4 jaw was used to center the slightly undersized ID to within .001 total runout vefore enlarging it to the correct OD of the bushing. Is that confusing enough? Mayve the pictures will help. The third picture shows the bushing pressed into the holder.


----------



## b.lindsey

With this done, some of the other detail work could be completed on the plate. Photo 1 shows the drillking of one of the two bolsters that will provide the anchors for holding the flywheel cover (shroud) onto the plate assembly.

Photo 2 shows the rather unusual setup used to mill the angle on the upper back side of the plate per the prototype which will direct the airflow to the fins on the upper part of the crankcase.

Photo 3 shows drilling the bushing holder through to the ID of the bushing. Since this part of the holder will be on the inside of the crankcase, the hole will allow some of the splash oil to seep into the bushing ID and lubricate the crankshaft as it runs in the bushing.

Photo 4 shows this in closer detail.


----------



## b.lindsey

The bushing extends 1/8" beyond the flat side of the holder and mates with the bore in the plate to locate the holder relative to the plate. Once these two parts were assembled and the holder oriented with the oil hole to the top, three clearance holes were drilled through the plate and bushing holder for 2-56 SHCS's secured with nuts on the opposite side. This is shown in photos 1 & 2. Photo 2 also shows the bushing extending the 1/8" into the bore on the plate. The remaining portion of the bore in the plate will hold the lips seal when these arrive.

Photos 3 & 4 show the front (outer) face of the plate assembly and the back (inner) face with bushing holder attached.


----------



## Deanofid

First rate workmanship (again), Bill. Thanks for the continuing write-up, and
the new batch of pics. This is one of my favorite builds here!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean. Things have come to the point where its going to be necessary to start in on the crankcase and crankshaft, so some of these various parts will have something to hang on to or off of or whatever.

As a side note I fiddled around with the two old 6S's I picked up at the swap meet a few months back. I swapped a few parts around to get the semi-running one configured most like the one I am modeling from, picked the best gas tank of the two and cleaned it out well, swapped the suction tube to one with a cleaner filter screen, and changed the air filter to the style of the modeled one, drained the oil and refilled the sump then gave it a go.

One thing I didn't have was a proper pull cord so i used the one I had made for the model which worked...kinda....for a while anyway.

The end result was that I did get it to run, so I now have a running 6S albeit a composite of parts from three engines. Now it needs a good clean up and a new paint job and a half scale model to sit beside it.

I may hit up Lowes this morning and see if I can find some larger cord for the pull start. 

Thanks to all who are following the build...and a Happy 4th of July too!!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Most of the long weekend was spent getting the grime off the full size Briggs engine and starting to paint some of the parts. All I needed and didn't have was a new length of spark plug wire and a new muffler. Left work early today to run by a local lawn mower repair shop I remembered from 8-10 years back...wasn't even sure they were still in business, but sure enough there they were. Interesting visit to say the least....98 degrees today and not an air conditioned in sight. The garage area was filled to the gills with various lawn mowers, etc. and the front office looked like a tornado had gone through it. I did manage to step over a few boxes to get to a display that had a few air filters and such for more current Briggs engines, but also 5 or 6 mufflers just like I was looking for. The bubble pack on the card had so much dust on it the muffler looked almost a brass color. Actually it was painted with gray primer as i found out. So i asked the guy at the counter if they had any spark plug wire with "real" wire inside and he said he didn't think so, but one of the other guys mentioned he thought there was a spool of it on a bottom shelf. Climbing over a few boxes himself, sure enough he found it under some more dust, so I got 2 feet for $2.00 a foot which seemed reasonable. The muffler wasn't priced and he couldn't find a price in the compiter burried under reams of ancient paperwork but one of them seemed to have a smudged price of $6.25 which worked for him so I figured that was fair enough. Add to that a package of 3 flywheel keys for $2.99 and I got out for under $15.00...all in all a good afternoon's work. You gotta love old places like this...they have what you need if they can only find it.

Anyway the painting is nearly complete, so reassembly can continue tomorrow, then back to the model!

Bill


----------



## rake60

Hummm.
Did they happen to have any old Briggs engines laying around?

If you have a spark, enough compression to to blow your thumb off the spark plug
hole and a clean carb, don't be surprised if that old 6S starts up on the second or
third pull. They're tough old engines.

Shutting it down is the fun part. Pushing that grounded metal tab against the top
of the spark plug works fine if you don't flinch. If you don't make positive contact 
it will light up your life! 

Those old magnetos can throw lightning!

This was a Briggs 5S magneto test. The crankshaft was being turned with a 
cordless hand drill set at screw driving speed.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5XMncDe924[/ame]

_*I use the toe of my well insulated running shoe to push that kill tab*_. 

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Rick,
I didn't see any, but only got a glance back into the workshop area. I suspect with enough time one could uncover all sorts of things there :big:

I think I started off this thread or a related one with the still vivid memory of being "lit up" when I got my granddad's mower started (actually it looked a lot like that eclipse that you posted several pages back) and then didn't know how to stop it correctly at least.Funny how that has now come full circle some 50 years later. I am looking forward to getting this restored one running well again. Can I ask what you usually mount them on for display/running purposes? I was thinking of maybe a skid or something. Also if it is to be run at times, does it need some kind of load? Maybe something like a small squirrel cage fan? 

Bill


----------



## rake60

My display platforms were based on what I expected the auction prices to bring.

The Briggs 5S was much more common than your 6S so it got a simple oak skid.






Then I got my hands on a 1940 Briggs WMB Washing Machine Engine.
It was a little rough when I got it.






I knew it would go for a good bit more than the 5S when fully restored, so I 
put a little more effort into it's display stand. Brass plaque and all!  :
The oak to build the base cost more than all of the parts required for
the restoration, but I got that money back and more.






The engines don't really need a load to run well. They will purr along 
nicely without having to work. I figure they've earned an easy living for
surviving this long. 

There I go hijacking your thread again.

I AM loving seeing an old Briggs engine being modeled.
Amazing work! :bow:

Rick


----------



## joe d

Bill

Still following along and much enjoying your thread, notwithstanding the guilt you are laying on me... there's a 1953 5S hiding under my workbench patiently waiting for me to get off my duff and pay it some attention!

Looking forward to your next installment.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Rick and Joe. The latest issue on the restoration is that after getting it back together I have no spark. The magneto WAS working last weekend and despite handling it very carefully, and wiring things back correctly...nothing. I have checkekd continuity of the new wire, the plug, the points, etc. all to no avail. 

Rick I like the skid you did for the 5S...that is similar to what I was thinking. I'm not planning on auctioning it off, just more for display purposes.

Thanks for checking in...I'll be getting back to the model shortly but want to get this spark issue resolved if possible.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Short update today...the seals arrived yesterday and look just as i expected. Other than that have been trying to finalize the drawings for both the crankcase and crankshaft before making chips and scrapping some larger chunks of metal. Work, this blasted heat wave, and fiddling with the full size 6S have slowed me down temporarily.


----------



## tel

> Shutting it down is the fun part. Pushing that grounded metal tab against the top
> of the spark plug works fine if you don't flinch. If you don't make positive contact
> it will light up your life! Cheesy



 ;D ;D Which is the reason I always stomp on 'em with my (rubber soled) boot!

Nice progress Bill, I'm looking forward to your treatment of the crankcase!


----------



## TuxMan

Bill

I just read this entire thread. Thank you for letting me ride along with you on this project. Your craftsmanship is outstanding. I am learning a great deal watching you attack each new challenge.

Keep up the good work

Eric


----------



## Maryak

rake60  said:
			
		

> Hummm.
> Those old magnetos can throw lightning!
> Rick



As part of my education, I was introduced to the underworld of crab pot raiding. Naturally this is done under cover of darkness and preferably on a wild and woolly night. 

On one such night, soaked to the skin with nary a crab in the boat, we returned to the creek and small jetty.

The boat had an old single banger belt start Blaxland Pup and was direct drive to the prop with no reverse. My partner in crime judged the moment to perfection.............."Right Bob shut her down." I thrust my hand into the half cabin and my oilskin attached itself to the sparkplug on top of the engine. The carburettor was on the front of the cylinder. Everytime she fired, so did I......Never got near the carby. We proceeded under the jetty at a steady 8 knots and the tide was just right to remove the half cabin from our trusty craft slightly before we hit the creek bank. The sudden stop freed me and my oilskin as I went forward almost as fast as the cabin went backward.

I can attest with a great deal of feeling just how much punch a magneto has.

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Tel and Eric. Funny story Bob...whatever the circumstances, I think all of us remember that first encounter with a magneto's punch and it's usually vivid enough to keep us from doing it again. 

By the way, I did get the spark back on the old 6S, now trying to clear up a few paint issues and it'll be ready to start again so I can work on the carb adjustments some.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Heading out this afternoon on a vacation cruise from Venice, Italy to Barcelona, Spain with stops in Croatia, Greece, Albania, western Italy (Rome and Florence) and Marseille, France. I will miss my daily visits to HMEM, but hope to return relaxed and ready to press on with the little 6S project. 

Bill


----------



## larry1

Bill,congratulation on your vacation, very envious of you, have a grand time. Ihave really enjoyed your build, thanks for taking the time, to put it on the screen, larry


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Larry,

Even though there won't be any progress for the next 2 weeks, I didn't want anyone thinking it was due to lack of interest. This trip has been in the works since last summer...all together 14 family members will be going so it should be fun.

Thanks to you and all that have followed along. As the governor of California said (easier than typing his last name)in on of his movies (Terminator maybe?)...

"I'll be back !!"

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Have fun, Bill! See ya when ya get back.

Dean


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Have fun Bill. Sounds like a fantastic trip.
Take pictures. ;D
And I already wish I were there.


----------



## b.lindsey

Well after almost getting back to normal from the +6 hour time difference while on vacation, this past Sat thru Tues i had a business trip to Portland OR (-3 hours) so things have been a little slow getting cranked back up. This weekend should see a start on the crankshaft and crankcase, assuming the heat lets up a bit. In the meantime, I did get a few gaskets made. There should only be a few more small ones to make, one for the valve breather cover, one for the air filter, and one for the gas tank/carb interface. Its good to be back home and hopefully progress will be back on track shortly.


----------



## 4156df

Bill,
Glad you're back.
Dennis


----------



## Deanofid

Welcome back, Bill.
Nice work on the gaskets. They look like factory parts!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Well I have been back but gaining some traction as far as progress has been slow it seems with classes starting back this past monday. Anyway, before I fall totally off the cliff here is some "token" progress on the crankcase. OK...so its only getting it down to the overall size thus far...terribly exciting I know. Though not that large it still requires a full size mill so am having to work on it intermittently at work. On the Sherline front at home, I will be starting the various parts for the carbureator shortly. Due to its odd and very irregular shape its going to have to be build up from various pieces to make it look original but still very doable on the small mill and lathe.

With the busy summer almost behind things should begin to settle down some...not to mention the grass not growing as fast and the cooler weather which allows more enjoyable shop time.


----------



## Deanofid

> and the cooler weather which allows more enjoyable shop time



Amen, brother! I get a lot more done in the cold or cool months. Summer heat is 
hard on a fat man, (like me).
Glad you got to make some chips. Thanks for the update!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Made lots and lots of chips Dean..I dug out the 6 inch swath fly cutter I used to use to rough out mold bases and it saves time but throws chips about 10 feet away.in several directions. I'll have to sweep and vacuum those up in the morning before labs begin.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Have gotten a bit more done on the crankcase when work allows. The flywheel side was bored and drilled to accept the cover plate and then tapped for the 5-40 hex cap screws as shown in photos 1 & 2 below. Photo 3 shows the crankcase block with the plate attached and sitting on the base/oil pan. As can be seen there is a lot more whittling to be done yet to find a crankcase in that aluminum block. Photo 4 shows a closer view of the plate mounting with the points/condenser cover removed. Not a lot but still some progress.


----------



## kustomkb

Looking really good Bill!

Some serious whittling indeed, Looking forward to seeing it.


----------



## b.lindsey

The last two photos show the plate with the cover re-installed, and I couldn't help but place the cylinder head on top just to imagine how it might look. As noted previously this is having to be done on the large mill at work. A lot of time at home has been spent finishing the drawings for the carburator. Already there are some 16-17 separate pieces that will (I hope) fit together to look much like the original with 3-4 more components yet to draw. More on that though over the weekend.


----------



## Deanofid

Always glad to see more on this one, Bill. 
You're right! More whittling to do, for sure, but after seeing how much you've
done on this build so far, it's sure to be an outstanding job.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for checking in Kevin. With any luck I will at least get the cylinder bored out for the cylinder liner tomorrow and get the liner shrink fit into it this weekend.

Thank you too Dean. The exterior contours of the crankcase don't worry me as much as hollowing out the inside...all kinds of surprises lurking in there . Even when not making chips though, working on the drawings is a big help in planning things out.


----------



## ozzie46

Looks good Bill. You're doing an incredible job.


 Ron


----------



## b.lindsey

During lunch today, I managed to bore and counterbore the crankcase block for the cylinder liner. Over the weekend I will heat the block, freeze the liner and hope it falls in smoothly and then equalizes to a good tight fit which should withstand engine operating temps somewhere between 250-300 degrees F. That's the theory anyway with thanks to Doug Kelley for his advice on this. The 2nd picture also shows the full size carburetor which I will be working on overr the long holiday weekend.

Ron, thanks for your comments too !


----------



## rklopp

Bill
I have a few recommendations for your shrink fit. First, machine a reduced diameter at the base of the liner to help you get it started straight. Second, make up a plug gauge to check the true diameter of the bore in the block and find out the true level of interference, find any taper, etc.. Shrink fits are no place for errors associated with comparing, say, telescoping gauge readings for the female part and direct micrometer readings for the male part. Third, consider assembling upside down with the liner supported on a loose-fitting iron or steel mandrel that is chilled along with the liner. Grab the cold mandrel with the liner sitting on it in your bench vise, then drop the hot block down over top of it. The extra chilled mass of the mandrel will help keep the liner from warming too quickly and seizing. Finally, calculate how much delta temperature you need to get lots of clearance. I would avoid heating the aluminum more than 400 deg F.
RKlopp


----------



## b.lindsey

RK, thanks for the advice. As it is calculated. the block bore is .0025" undersized. At 350 degrees F for the block and 30 degrees for the liner, that will give a clearance of .0014". Conversely, if the mated pair is operating at 300 degrees the aluminum will expand more than the liner but there would still be an interference fit of .0008" which should be more than sufficient. I suspect that 300 degrees is excessive as an operating temp for short runs, meaning the interference would likely remain at .001" or slightly more. There is also a chamfer on the bottom of the liner which should help it start in straight. I understand your idea of placing the block over the liner, but I feel I can have better control holding the frozen liner than the HOT block. It will be much easier to see and locate the liner over the bored block as well with the block oriented upright. I'll let you know how it works out.


----------



## rklopp

I would be scared to try this with only 0.0014 clearance during assembly. I am afraid the relatively thin liner will heat very quickly against the comparatively massive block, and ...bye bye clearance. Been there done that more times than I care to recount. I think you would be fine with a couple tenths interference at engine operating temperature. That liner is not going anywhere. I would reduce the current interference accordingly.


----------



## Deanofid

Bill, another route for this cylinder liner fitting would be to go with High Strength Sleeve Retainer, made
by Permatex. This is exactly the application this stuff is made for. It's also good up to 400°f. 
It will give you some breathing room when it comes to shrink fit clearances for this piece. You could 
make it an easy push fit, and rest easy about the thing getting forever stuck pressed just halfway
into the cylinder.

NAPA stores sell it.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Hmmmmm....well I didn't get to these posts before giving it a try. The wife had taters baking when I got home so I stuck the block in the over with them...350 degrees on convection so good air movement. Put the liner in the freezer at the same time. Couple of hours later, after dinner, I get the block out, set it on a heat proof cutting board, quickly got the liner from the freezer and gave it a try. Was a little tight but a little wiggling to line it up and it literally fell right in. Rest assured though, I was ready to pull it out quickly if anything hadn't felt right...but it was all over in less than 5 seconds. Letting the block cool is gonna take a little longer. I'm bettin this thing is in there for keeps. Photo below. I do appreciate all the input though !! The only other thing i need to check is that the piston fit is still as good and as smooth as it was before in the loose liner.


----------



## Deanofid

Well, you have it done then! Good going, Bill. That's the way I did it for the Vacuum engine, too,
with oven and deep freeze. I thought the Sleeve Locker would make it less nerve wracking, but 
you've got it knocked!
Hope you enjoyed the taters.  ;D

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean, the taters were fine but the grilled ribeyes were even better ;D

BTW, the cylinder still fits the piston like a glove.


----------



## rklopp

:bow: Glad to hear the shrink went well!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks RK. Might have been just lucky, but I did breathe a sigh of relief when it fell in. You were right on one thing...it sure didn't take long for the liner to heat up.


----------



## b.lindsey

What a perfect almost Fall day today, mid 80's and low humidity...perfect for being out in the shop. Here though, I just have access to the Sherline equipment but that is perfect for getting started on the carburetor. Due to the irregular shape, the carb will be built up of numerous individual parts, soldered or threaded together. I started off turning the taper for the main body, then turned it around to drill the two bores of 3/16" and 1/4" which meet at the point where the butterfly valve body will go. This is shown in photos 1 & 2. Photo 3 shows milling out the 5/16" hole for the valve body after drilling a pilot hole first. I was worried about this step because there isn't much meat left on either side of the hole and while i half expected a mangled mess and a do-over, a very slow feed avoided that. Photo 4 shows milling the body on the outer end down to where the bore begins. A small end mill was used to open up this hole into the carb body before using the boring head to make the .250" radius on the end nearest the chuck. This flat is where the air filter seat will mate up with the carb body.


----------



## b.lindsey

Next up was the cylindrical part that the butterfly (for lack of a better term) valve will fit into and rotate to give more or less air/fuel mixture to the engine. Didn't take any in process pics of that since it was pretty straight forward. This does have a 3/16" opening on one side and a 1/4" opening on the other to mate with the two identical bores in the main carb body piece. I drilled/bored/reamed it to .250" which will be the OD of the butterfly whatchamacallit thingy that will fit into it. For now its just a snug fit into the carb body and the shank of a 1/4" drill bit was used to align it as shown in the second photo. The last pic gives some idea of size for this sub-assembly. Now onto the air filter seat...mainly some relaxing lathe work.


----------



## b.lindsey

Just as a reference, the below .pdf file will give some indication of where this is headed...lots of itty bitty parts and no idea yet that it will even work. If not at least it will make for an interesting paperweight :big:

Thanks for checking in.



View attachment BS6S-Carb4.pdf


----------



## Deanofid

Hey, you've made a $75 kazoo, Bill!  

Just kidding. Looks great so far!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Hey Dean....I knew it looked familiar and you hit it on the head...a kazoo. Gosh hadn't thought of those in years...senior year in high school to be exact...The Headland High School Senior Marching Kazoo Band...or something like that. Longer ago than I care to admit but back then we thought it was great fun...another and far more innocent time unfortunately. 

More pics coming up shortly...


----------



## b.lindsey

The afternoon was still young so I figured I'd take a stab at the air filter seat. Ended up being as much mill work with the rotary table as lathe work but my luck is running good this weekend so what the heck. I think the pictures are pretty self explanatory so I won't comment. Besides it after 5PM now and time for my daily ration of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale...or wine...or better yet....

Oh and please no comments about this thing now looking like some sort of drug paraphenalia...after all this is a family type forum...more in tune with M&M's, Noids, Kazoos, etc. ;D


----------



## b.lindsey

And the last two...for now. Hmmmm....not much space there between the air filter and valve body, but neither is there much on the prototype engine. If need be I can round the bottom of the air filter housing a bit more and gain some there.

Happy Labor Day to those who will be celebrating it!!


----------



## b.lindsey

Couple more pieces of the carb puzzle are done...mainly the riser stud for attaching the air filter and the three pieces which make up the choke mechanism which will attach to the back of the the air filter support as shown in photo 1.


----------



## Deanofid

Somehow I missed three posts in a row, Bill. Sorry about that, chief!
These assemblies are all looking very good. You're really doing some nice work here.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean, you didn't miss much ...small steps on a few small parts...but still plodding forward at least. I had ordered a new hose set for a Smith Little Torch I have had for years but not used for quite a while. Those poor old hoses had gotten so brittle they would just snap anywhere you bent them too much. Will be installing the new hoses today and have also ordered some .031 silver solder from the outfit zee had mentioned a while back in his 0-4-0 thread. Once a few more little bits are done I will attempt to get them all soldered together as well as a few other things like the two halves of the muffler. Meanwhile I am hoping to get some more carving done on the crankcase as well.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Slightly off topic but I did get the new hoses installed on the Little Torch. Relatively easy process too. Now I just need to get an adapter for my acetylene regulator so as to be able to use in on an MC size tank which will be for home use. Hopefully the silver solder will come in in the next day or so as well. Will be back working on other parts for the carburetor this weekend.


----------



## b.lindsey

Nit much to show today...had that pesky grass to cut AGAIN but managed to get the mounting plate for the carb/engine attachment done though I am not totally happy with it yet so may redo it for the third time to improve on the indentions on the three sides as shown. The end result wont be noticably different from the one shown, just better done.


----------



## b.lindsey

Good news, bad news. In addition ro the new hoses on the little torch I have been cleaning up the cart I got from Dad and repainting it. Went by National Welders yesterday after work and got the adapter needed for the regulator to fit on the smaller MC size acetylene tank and full tanks of oxygen and acetylene. Put it all back together this evening to check things out and danged if the oxy tank wasn't empty...must have been a bad valve or something. Another trip tomorrow to exchange it for a really "full" one. Anyway this is what it will look like...didn't take a before shot but it is an impprovement!


----------



## b.lindsey

Update on the empty Oxy tank. Didn't get off work in time to go by yesterday but did today. Met the guy on the loading dock with a long face about how I got the tank on Tuesday (receipt in hand), and a sad story about how anxious I was to try it out only to find it didn't have a breath of oxygen in it. He said they would gladly exchange the tank and even tested the new one for pressure. Meanwhile I told him I needed to go inside to pick up a couple of things like a little wrench for that square valve stem on MC acetylene tanks ($1.00) and a new high pressure gage for my acetylene regulator ($10.93). So I am there checking out and the guy says that'll be $1.18 ???. I said you must have forgot to add in the gage and he kindly replied "we will throw that in for your trouble in having to come back by." I thanked him profusely and said I wasn't looking for a freebie and he said not to worry. Once again there are a few companies out there that still believe in GOOD customer service. In this case it was the local National Welders branch. I gave him a dollar and a quarter, told him not to bother with the $.07 change, bid him and his collegues a pleasant evening and scedaddled out of there before they came to their senses. Anyway its up and running now, but still waiting on that silver solder and flux to arrive....e-mailed them today but no answer yet.

Three cheers for the guys at National Welders though!!!

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

That's a nice sized torch 'n bottle set for a small home shop, Bill. Glad to hear the welding supply
boys treated you right, too. An empty bottle gets by the filling place once in a while. I've had it
happen too. 
Sounds like some nice fellows working at your place.

Dean


----------



## ChooChooMike

Bill,

FABULOUS JOB THUS FAR !!! I have Sherline equipment too, but it's not seen much use since I got the lathe & mill over 5 years ago. Now I've got some serious incentive to get busy after seeing all your great work on these desktop machines !! :bow: :bow:

+1 on karma/applaud !!

I'm watching all your work with great interest 

Mike


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Mike, I have enjoyed my Sherline equipment for many years now and find it perfect for many smaller jobs and some bigger jobs as well. I was hoping to get some soldering done this weekend but STILL no silver solder yet. I called them this afternoon...said it was shipped on 9/7 from MA via UPS ground...should have been here by the 10th...its now the 17th. They tried tracking it but somehow it didn't show up in "big browns" database. Hmmmmmm....its either really really lost or never got shipped. They promised to let me know something on Monday....we'll see what happens. Guess I will just keep plugging along on other parts for the carb over the weekend. Thanks for checking in...now get that lathe and mill dusted off and make some chips :big:

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

A few more little bits and pieces for the carb and a remake of the mounting flange (third time was the charm). The needle valve is just a 2-56 SS SHCS modified on the pointed end. The other parts are all part of that sub-assembly except for the mixing vane which was a part of the prototype. I wasn't going to make that but had a piece of 1/4" wide by ,032" thick brass and figured What the heck....two adjustable wrenches and a 180 degree twist and it worked just fine. It slid right into the larger end of the carb body which is also 1/4" dia. A little tacking with some silver solder and it should be there to stay. Now on to the main butterfly valve and the mounting plate and it should be nearly done and reacy to be soldered together...and the bigger test...to see it there is any chance it will work ???


----------



## b.lindsey

Just a final picture of how the vane was twisted.


----------



## GailInNM

Bill,
You sure are making a lot of fine looking little bits. I am sure enjoying following along.
Gail in NM


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Gail, it seems like the more little bits I get done, the more there are. Like so many of the other parts, the prototype carb was a potmetal casting pretty much in one or just a few pieces with little machining to do. Sure makes a difference trying to build it up in pieces but the challenge is fun all the same.

Bill


----------



## arnoldb

You're making some beautiful progress Bill :bow:
Not far to go now Thm:

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold...I think I should give you the prize for optimism today though. Some progress yes, but a long way yet to go. Just in the few parts I made over the weekend I changed several things so that will require updating the drawings to reflect those changes. Now theres the crankcase to finish, valves and cams to make, crankshaft...oh and the internal gears too.If I only had more time 

Thanks for checking in and for the encouragement though. It does help.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

You're doing a fine job on the carb, Bill. Not only the parts on the outside, but making things
for the inside that others won't know are there. Great modeling work!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean. I did hear from the silver solder source yesterday via a UPS tracking notice. Apparently they had never shipped it back on Sept 7th for whatever reason. Scheduled to arrive tomorrow finally. I did fire up the LIttle Torch last evening with one of the finer tips (one of the ones with a synthetic ruby insert and a hole dia. of .011"). I am hoping the pinpoint flame will work well on some of the small joints that will be required in sticking all the little pieces together. If I need more widespread heat then I have larger tips for that too, just dont' want to be soldering in the middle and have the previously soldered end fall off but we'll see how it goes. I am thinking the .031 dia. silver solder should make that easier too.

Thanks for checking in.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Today I finally got some silver soldering done, I started on the bigger (relatively speaking) muffler by soldering the central pipe to one of the outer body halves. Then the joint where the two body halves mate was soldered making a nice solid assembly. A little scotchbrite while turning the muffler in the lathe chuck cleaned it up nicely too. The results are shown in the three photos below.


----------



## b.lindsey

Then it was on to the carb parts. First the slide for the choke plate was attached to the air filter support with a short piece of brass drilled and screwed to both parts to hold them aligned and level. This is shown in photo 1. After that the air filter support was soldered to the carb body and the vertical center tube (for the butterfly valve was soldered to the body also. Then came the horizontal piece for the needle valve, followed by the mounting plate and the mixer vane inside the body. I didn't take pics of these but by the end the whole thing looked pretty nasty with flux and discoloration. I didn't have any picklimg solution but after an initial scrubbing with a toothbrush, hot water and soap I dunked the assembly in some bottle lemon juice which worked pretty well actually adter some additional scrubbing. Finally I buffed the whole thing on the little Foredom buffer...see pictures 2 & 3.


----------



## b.lindsey

The last three pictures show things sort of put together with the air filter, an end view showing the mixer vane, and finally with the needle valve installed.


----------



## b.lindsey

Its still not finished...still have the butterfly valve to make, the bottom support to attach it to the gas tank, and a few angled bracing pieces just to give it a more realistiv look. Thanks for checking in.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Your hard soldering turned out great, Bill. Especially on the muffler, which would have been easy
to have it run all over the place!
It looks like the lemon juice did okay, too. I've never tried this, but maybe vinegar would too. I just 
use ascorbic acid you can get at the health food store, in the vitamin C section. Like vinegar or lemon,
it won't hurt your skin, so you can put your fingers in it and scrub parts with someone else's toothbrush.

Thanks for the new pics and update!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean,
I didn't think of the vinegar and have some of that (though I prefer the smell of lemon juice to vinegar any day). I will check at the health food store for some ascorbic acid also. Personally I don't darken the doors of those places, but for modeling work I will make an exception :big:

Thanks for the comments. Hope to get a little more done today.

Bill


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Nice soldering job Bill.
I've been pretty busy lately and not posting much...but I've been following along.
It's very nice work.

A little something for scale (toothbrush doesn't count ;D) would be a big help for me.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Zee. I saw in the ShoutBox that you had been under the weather. Hope you are feeling better. I'll post something for a size reference. Sometimes I do...just forgot to this time since most of the parts had been posted previously.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Have been looking for a 4-40 wingnut to attach the air filter to its base via the threaded stud and haven't had much luck finding just one or two. While at Lowe's this morning I did find a nice 6-32 stainless wingnut sooooo....a little hard solder in the 6-32 threads and a quick re-drill and re-tap and presto...a 4-40 wingnut that isn't too bad off scale. The last two pictures are as requested by Zee for some size comparison. The little red guy is a gummy bear (sorry...was out of M&M's) and the last one is some old guys hand 

Edit for Dean: I had remade the little elbow piece for the muffler since the original was soft soldered and I wasn't too confident that it would hold up under the exhaust heat. Anyway after hard soldering the new one along with the wingnut I tried cleaning them in vinegar instead of lemon juice. I have to say it worked significantly faster than the lemon juice.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Those kinds of scales always make me hungry. ;D

Nice job on the wing-nut. Nice tip too.


----------



## b.lindsey

Me too Zee...unfortunately the gummy bear met with a quick demise shortly after the pic was taken :big:

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Nice wingnut work, Bill. The assembly shot with the fuel tank looks sooo good! Any B&S guy would 
recognize it! 
Thanks for letting us know about the vinegar, too. I thought it may work.
The way I found out that ascorbic acid was available at health food stores came from a search for chems
to make my own photo developing chemicals. Ascorbic is an ingredient for those, too.




			
				b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> Me too Zee...unfortunately the gummy bear met with a quick demise shortly after the pic was taken :big:
> 
> Bill



Oh nooo! I didn't realize this thread would turn to carnage and mayhem.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Dean, 
Funny you should mention photography. Back in the OLD days when I was the photographer for the high school paper I did all my own darkroom work (B&W only). As I was trying out the vinegar today it dawned on me that the "fixer" bath (IIRC) was acidic and dirt cheap too. I made it by the gallons!! Probably hard to find these days what with digital and all. And it didn't smell as bad as vinegar either!

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Yes, some fixer has that smell, but what really smells of strong vinegar is the stop bath.
And I'll betcha stop bath would work well as a pickle, too!

You can still get the same good old chems from Kodak. Dektol, D-76, thiosulphate fix, indicator stop, 
and all that.
Even Diafine and Rodinal are still being made. I still use them!


----------



## joe d

Bill

This is really looking good.

I do hope that we won't be seeing headlines reading "Local Model Engine Builder Jailed for out-of-season Bear hunting...." :big:

Joe


----------



## NickG

Looks excellent Bill, nice job on the silver soldering.

Nick


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Joe and Nick. Hmmmm...apparently the choice of gummy bears as a size reference leaves something to be desired as far as political correctness. Better replenish the stock of M&M's soon I suppose :big:

Thanks for checking in guys!!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Since the last post I have made and attached the mounting plate that attaches the carb to the gas tank and mounted it to the carb, and today got the butterfly valve pretty much completed with the exception of the short arm where the throttle control cable will attach. A few pictures are attached of the valve and carb assembly as it looks now.


----------



## b.lindsey

The last two pictures show the carb assy now screwed to the gas tank without and with the air filter. The base of the air filter did have to be modified slightly to clear the top of the butterfly valve cap.


----------



## cfellows

Wow, very impressive. Gives me a whole new appreciation for those parts. 

Chuck


----------



## Deanofid

As Chuck said, very impressive, Bill! Just the fuel tank and carb could be exhibited as
a project in itself. Great work!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Chuck. Sometimes it feels like a project within itself but I will press on...determined to get this little Briggs finished and running alongside its big sister. Just wish I could retire and spend more time with it and the long list of other projects I want to get started on at some point.

Thanks as always for checking in to both of you!!

Bill


----------



## kustomkb

That really is a project unto itself. A real fine piece of jewelery you have made. Er, scratch that, jewelry doesn't do anything!

Very nice.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Kevin, 
I'm not so sure this sub-assembly will do anything either....yet. I do know it will hold liquid without leaking, but whether the little carb will suck it up out of the tank remains to be seen. 

Bill


----------



## t.l.a.r. eng

Outstanding build! I am amazed at the progress and dedication. 

Have you considered putting the check valve in the end of the fuel pick-up pipe?
It would have a major affect on the way the engine starts and runs. A small brass foot and tiny stainless ball should work like the original. You could even add the screen like the originals.
I don't remember if the earlier engines used the check valve, but I know the later ones did. It keeps the fuel in close proximity to the main needle valve so the fuel doesn't run [drain back] away from the valve between intake pulses.
Just my .02 and not worth a whole lot more than that.
Gary


----------



## b.lindsey

Gary,
Yes that is something yet to be added to the bottom of the pick-up tube and I agree with you, it should help the performance....now ...any ideas on finding a 1/16" OD SS Ball?? I am not sure when they began adding this but the prototype I am working from does have it. so that would be around 1950-51. Thanks for the observation and suggestion!!

Bill


----------



## mklotz

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> now ...any ideas on finding a 1/16" OD SS Ball??



Ball-point pen, perhaps?


----------



## b.lindsey

That's a thought Marv. I will try to dig one out, clean it and measure it. I am sure I could buy some from McMaster but only need one so would rather not go that route yet if I don't have too. Thanks!!

Bill


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Bill,
I'm sure I have a .0625 stainless ball in my stash. I'll look and let you know. If I do I'll drop it in the mail for you. Personally I don't think you'll need it. I have never used one on my hit and miss engines and they draw fuel from farther away than yours will.
On another note, having gone through the carburetor maze, I would try a very simple carb that is known to work before using your beautiful replica. The reason being that I have scaled down several carbs from full sized engines and haven't had much luck with them. The physics just doesn't scale down well.
gbritnell


----------



## Deanofid

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> now ...any ideas on finding a 1/16" OD SS Ball??
> Bill



Bill, I have some. They are actually in metric sizes. I have 1.5mm and 1.7mm. So, .059" or .067".
Let me know if you can use either of those and I can send you a couple, or a couple of each.

I keep a few different sizes on hand for various camera repairs. They're used as detent balls.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for the offer Dean. Taking Marv's advice I took the roller ball out of a ball point pen yesterday (actually 3 of them having lost the first two...geeze they are small) but hung on to one at last. It measures .040" dia and may work...just need to draw up what and how I want to do for the check valve arrangement. If the .040" ball doesn't work I may take you up on your gracious offer. Thanks!!!

Bill


----------



## swilliams

Hi Bill

I've been reading your detailed description on making the rings way back on page 16
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6014.225

I think it's really good and plan on doing similar for my engine soon. BTW I'm really impressed with your great build and what you are able to do with your little machines.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Steve, I was certainly pleased with the results as a total newbie making rings. No more than most of these engines run, the lack of heat treating shouldn't be a problem and as I noted back in that post, the fellow that told me about the method now swears by it and has MUCH more experience than I do. I would still make some extras...just in case. Even though I was amazed at their ability to stretch over the OD of the piston, cast iron is still a brittle material. 

Bill


----------



## swilliams

Thanks Bill

The tip about making some extra rings is a good one. I think I would have over looked that one if you hadn't brought it up

Steve


----------



## b.lindsey

Minor update...Have started back to work on the crankcase...nothing major but gettiing it gradually down to size. Hope to be able to get some work done over the weekend. In the first two photos, the width was reduced on the oil filler end, just some straightforward milling.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next 3 photos show facing off the flywheel side of the crankcase by .031" leaving a small raised circle where the outer plate will attach. Photo 1 shows using the coax indicator to canter on the mounting hole. Then the rotary table was used to mill away the material on that face with the exception of the mounting flange, hence the circular tooling marks.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Just managing to peek in the forum once in a while...

Nice stuff Bill. So you went with the blue M&M? I see them a lot on this forum. It tells me all you guys like the reds, greens, and yellows. Not surprising...we all like the shinier ones.

I'm always surprised by the smallness and detail of your work. Very nice.


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## b.lindsey

Hey Zee, checking in every so often is about all I have managed too of late. Things have been waaaaaayyyyy to busy at work lately. I just need to get back to doing a little something every day and the ptogress will manage itself. Thanks for checking in though.

Bill


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## Deanofid

We all get busy, Bill. Sometimes the projects have to wait. Looks like you made a good bit of progress 
on this last bit, though. I liked the part shown next to your print. Gives us a good idea of what's what!

Dean


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## b.lindsey

All too true Dean! What with teaching the "Machine Shop Practices" course, co-teaching the two lab sections for the same course, and making sure all the other labs are set up properly...the days go by fast. But I love it all and feel so fortunate to be able to say that. Still...a little more fun time would be nice  I do hope however, to get some further whittling on the crankcase done this week, starting today. I am getting antsy now to see the shape of the crankcase emerge from that block of aluminum.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Time for a brief update since its been a couple of weeks. Chip making has slowed considerably for the moment as it became apparent that to go any further on the engine block would reguire completing the design and drawings for the internal components, especially the crankshaft gear and the one piece cam gear/shaft/cams. These too had to be scaled down and being a newcomer to making gears I am slower at this though I must say learning a lot in the process. This all had to be done to figure the center distance between the two gears and therefore the location of the cam shaft in the crankcase, which effects the location of the valves, etc. etc. Anyway I did get a start on the cam shaft this weekend as shown in the below photos. As per the original this is being made from cast iron though the crankshaft gear will likely be steel. Complicating this somewhat (for me at least) is the roughly 25 degree angle that the teeth of the gears are cut on. I am assuming this was done for noise reduction in the prototype but whatever the reason I am going to try to use the same angle in the model. I have the cutters in hand and am working out the set-up for doing this on the Sherline mill. As the two gears are 18 & 36 teeth, the rotary table, mounted on an angle plate I am hoping will suffice as long as I can make it rigid enough. Since the cams are timed to the gear teeth on the cam shaft they will be cut after the gear is cut. I think all the angles have been figured correctly per the prototype but only time will tell. The tappets will be made from drill rod and hardened. At times these details get to be mind boggling!! Hopefully I will have more progress to post in the next few days.













View attachment BS6S.pdf


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## arnoldb

Bill, your engine's coming along great :bow: 

Regards, Arnold


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## b.lindsey

Arnold, thanks for checking in. I went back yesterday and re-read your thread on the elbow engine too after seeing the pictures you posted recently in the finished projects section. That is one of the most elegant interpretations of the elbow that I have seen. Its somewhere on my to d0 list and when i do get to it I can' only hope it turns out as nice as yours.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Got more done on the cam gear today. Photo 1 shows the blank after the lathe work was done Photos 2,3 and four show the set-up on the mill using the angle plate, rotary table and gear cutter mounted in a modified slotting saw arbor. The teeth are being cut ar a 25 degree angle as per the original. I am happy so far with the results thoug the final test will be how it meshes with the 18 tooth gear which has to be cut now for the crankshaft. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## b.lindsey

The last four pictures for today show the cam gear after the teeth were cut and next to the prototype. The cam lobes still need to be milled but that will wait until the crank gear is cut to make sure the two gears mesh correctly at the calculated center distance. I have also left the angle plate/rotary table set-up just as it is so the teeth angles will be the same. Since this is the first gear I have ever cut I can only hope the calculations were all done correctly. I checked them over and over on paper and with CAD but not confident enough yet to cut the cam lobes until I actually see the gears working together as they should. A simple fixture will be made to simulate their relative positions in the crankcase.


----------



## kustomkb

Looking really good Bill!

All the best with the test fit.


----------



## steamer

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> I have also left the angle plate/rotary table set-up just as it is so the teeth angles will be the same. ...



Hi Bill,

I think the helix angle has to be opposite for the crank gear.....I think.... ???

Might want to check that for sure.

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Dave,
Yes you are right. What I should have said was that I am leaving the 25 degree angle set on the angle plate and leaving the rotary table attached as it is. If I then turn the angle plate around facing to the right rather than the left and still cut the teeth from the back side, then the helix angle should be reversed. Great observation on your part though and I very much appreciate the warning. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

As Dave pointed out, the helix angle of the crankshaft gear has to be opposite to that of the cam gear. To achieve this the angle plate and rotary table were just turned around 180 degrees from the way they were when cutting the cam gear. This is shown in photo 1. The18 tooth crankshaft gear was then cut. A simple fixture was made with a 3/16" post for the cam gear and a 7/16" post for the crank gear spaced .964" center to center which is the calculated center distance for the gears. After a little deburring of the teeth on the crank gear (1018 steel) and filing the tooth points of both gears by a few thousandths they were checked on the fixture with good results..no apparent interference and little if any slop in the mesh of the gears. Finally I could take a breath again!! The fixture is shown in photo 2 with both gears. Photo 3 shown the gears alone with the obligatory M&M for size reference. Finally, if it posts, is a short video of the gears turning on the fixture. The .964 center distance will now be used to locate the cam gear axis in the crankcase relative to the crankshaft. 
















View attachment Cam Gear.wmv


----------



## gbritnell

Boy the gears really came out nice. I had reservations about the straight teeth but in the video it looks like there's no problem at all. I think I might have opted to press the cam into the gear just in case something happens to one of the lobes, then the whole thing would need to be made over. 
Are you doing any work on the block? I can't wait to see this thing come to life. 
Very nice work so far.
gbritnell


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks George. Lets hope nothing happens while cutting the cam lobes. Once I reference and mark the location of the timing mark on the cam gear, all of the angles for cutting the lobes have already been worked out and drawn up. As always some patience (especially with the Sherline equipment) and thinking before cutting will hopefully avoid such problems.

As for the block, nothing has been done recently other than what has been posted already. Several things needed to wait on the successful completion of the cam and crank gears. Their positions in the block (the crankshaft location has alread been machined into the block) determine the locations of the valves, etc. Now I think I am at a point where block progress can continue and I am excited about that too and it will make this collection of stray parts look much more like an engine.

If nothing else I have a newfound respect for how Briggs turned out tens of thousands of these and similar engines in the 40's and 50's. Its such a simple looking engine...very basic and no frills...until you get into it and try to duplicate that simplicity. 

Thanks for checking in...more on the block soon

Bill


----------



## swilliams

Very nice job on making the helical gears Bill :bow:


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## steamer

Great Job Bill!

Can't wait for the cam!

Dave


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Steve and Dave. For a first go at making gears I have to admit I was pleased with the outcome as it had been one of the things I was worried about doing. Now I'm all smiles and will have them run in well just from spinning them 'round on the fixture before they ever see the inside of the block. 

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

That is definitely a 'wow' thing, Bill, cutting gears like these as your very first ones!
They look lovely the way I see 'em. Great work!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean. Still haven't had the time to work on the cam lobes yet but am hoping to do that tonight. One of the "optional" projects which our students can choose to do in the machine shop lab here at the university is an 18 tooth spur gear done out of aluminum. I have been teaching the theory as part of the lecture part of the course...the various formulae, use of dividing head, etc. but being honest with them I have had to say that I had never cut a gear before. If nothing else, that monkey if off my back now ;D

Bill


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## b.lindsey

The Big Brown Truck delivered a few goodies today...some O2 drill rod for the crankshaft and valves and tappets and through pin for the cam gear, 1/4-28 LH tap and die for threading the flywheel end of the crankshaft and making the locking nut, and some .037 and .045 music wire for the intake and exhaust springs. Which leads me to a question for the IC guys that make their own valve springs. I need the ID of both springs to be .312" How much undersized should the mandrel be for winding the springs in order to achieve the correct ID needed. The music wire is still pretty stiff even in these smaller sizes so I am sure it will tend to spring back some over the OD of the mandrel. Is this just a trial and error thing or are there any guidelines out there for this. The springs will be identical except for the wire guages. With a pound of each size wire on hand there is definitely material for error if needed but am hoping someone can give some guidance here.

Thanks,

Bill


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## Deanofid

Bill, I have a couple of articles in the Tips and Tricks section for making springs. I've made a gob of them
and find it to be a bit of a trial and error thing to get them the exact diameter you want. I think Marv put
a program in one of those two threads that helps to figure mandrel sizes, though. Have a look:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8253.0

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8258.0

These tell how to make extension and compression springs, and also easy heat treating for them. Your music wire will make springs you can use just as they are, but they will last longer and perform better
through high cycle counts if you heat treat them. It's easy.

Oh, second link shows compression springs, but you might want to have a look at both threads, as the
basics are laid out in the first.

Dean


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## BlakeMcKee

Where do you get your material from Bill? There is this place called metal express that I found here in Charlotte but I was wondering if you get it from somewhere local, and cheaper? Your engine looks good, keep it up. Looking forward to your future post! Thanks.

- Blake.


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## b.lindsey

Dean, thanks for the links, I will look at both of them. I have access to a small heat treat furnace at work that may come in handy too and plan on using it for the tappets at least. If I have any further questions I will ask. Thanks again!!

Blake, I have used Metal Express yes and i use them a lot for school as well. They have been a good supplier generally though not necessarily the cheapest. There is also a good scrapyard up near Harrisburg but you have to kind of look around or ask for what you want. For things like drill rod, I usually use MSC. The stuff I got today I ordered yesterday and it shipped ground from PA and still arrived today. Other than that I have lots of brass and aluminum that I have collected over the years from doing mold work


----------



## b.lindsey

Dean,

Those were both wonderful tutorials and I have downloaded Marv's MANDREL program as well. As soon as I get back from a Thanksgiving trip to Atlanta I will get started on making the wire guide since both spprings will be from wire larger than .025". Certainly looks very do-able as does the heat treating process for the wound springs. As noted above, with a pound of each size wire there is plenty of practice material until I get it right. Thanks for pointing me to these posts written with your usual clarity. Another adventur to look forward to now 

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

The semester here is finally over (except for grading final exams) so things have quieted down enough to squeeze in a little shop time. First up were the inlet and exhaust valve springs depicted below. Thanks again to Dean for his great tutorials and to Marv for the MANDREL program which both helped a lot. Just a few pictures for now before I fall off the board completely, but there will be more shortly as the valves and tappets take shape and now that I can get back to finishing up the camshaft too.

Nothing too exciting, but the first three pictures show the mandrel as the spring is started and finished and once the mandrel is removed from the chuck. The last picture shows the finished springs (except to Dean's recommended heat treating which I will do). Didn't have an M&M handy but the ID of the springs is .312 and both are .635-.645" tall. The inlet spring is .037" music wire (on the left) and the exhaust spring is .045" music wire (right).


----------



## NickG

Wow, those worked out perfect :bow:


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## kustomkb

Those springs turned out real pro Bill.

How much spring back did you get when comparing the ID to the mandrel size? Did you have washers on the capscrew for tensioning the wire or just use it to deflect against?


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Nick and Kustom. The calculated mandrel sizes were .264" and .270" so i compromised and made one mandres of.267" dia. I was shooting for an ID of .312" and the results came out at .310 and .315" close enough i think. According to Dean they may shrink a little after stress relieving them so one should be dead on and the other slightly small, but I can adjust the diameter of the spring retainer to account for that. As for the music wire guide, I just screwed a 10-24 SHCS into a piece of 3/8 square aluminum and used it as a deflector...tensioning was done by holding on to the wire tightly with my hand and it seemed to work out ok. Might be a different matter with heavier wire though. I have them in the oven now so we'll see what happens in a couple of hours. If one or both dont measure up I have plenty more wire to try again. So far there isn't much smell from the oven which is good since the wife is sitting nearby at the kitchen table.


----------



## Deanofid

They look great, Bill! Your diameters came out really close, too. I have Marv's program downloaded, but haven't got around to using it yet. From your post it sounds like it's just the ticket for calculating this.

When I do my heat treating, the smell I mentioned comes from the steel wool the springs are wrapped with. It has a trace of oil on it to keep it from rusting. Could be one of those good smells to a man, but not so nice to a lady. 

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

After baking the springs for an hour at 450 degrees F and allowing rhem to cool slowly, the ID shrunk by about .003"-.005" and the length by about .010" With a few minor adjustments to one of the spring keepers the final dimensions should still be fine. Figuring that the springs will be compressed somewhere around .100" once installed and that the cam lift will be .125 (less valve clearance), the final compressed length will be .400" give or take a few thousandths. Both springs will fully compress to between .300 to .332 so neither will "bottom out" but i want to recheck all this on the drawings tomorrow morning. In unwraping the springs inside the steel wool inside the outer foil wrap, the steel wool appeared more brownish, and given the lack of any smell, maybe there wasn't any residual oil on the steel wool. The springs darkened slightly but the ends of both appeared slightly blueish. Don't know if that is normal or not but I have fully compressed both numerous times and they spring back to the post baked length consistently, so I am hoping they are good to go.


----------



## cl350rr

Nice work on the springs


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## b.lindsey

Today I did a little more machining to one end of the crankcase. This is the end where the carb, muffler, etc, will eventually attach. There was a good bit of aluminum to remove and I took it slow not wanting to make an error at this point (or hopefully any point for that matter). The first two pictures just show some of the metal removal. Pictures 3 and 4 show the roughed out end of the crankcase. The last picture also shows the cylinder head in its approximate position.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next two pictures show the crankcase next to the prototype. The protrusion will be machined later to form the rounded outer housing for the camgear. This can be seen in the prototype. Some of the width of the protrusion will go away when the various profiles of the back side of the crankcase are done.


----------



## b.lindsey

The crankcase work needed to be done on the full size mill at work, but since it went pretty well I was feeling brave enough to try and finish up the camgear on the Sherline at home this evening. This meant cutting the lobes, and rounding the rest of each lobe's profile and drilling the two oil holes. Starting with the RT set on zero, the four angles for the flats of each lobe had already been figured so it was just as matter of setting the RT to the correct angle and milling the flats to the proper depth. This is shown in picture 1. That being done the rest of each lobe aside from the flats and the high point needed to be rounded. This was also done on the mill with the same set-up by rotatung the lobes 5 degrees at a time to remove the remaining excess material. This is shown in photos 2 and 3 and worked well with minimal filing needed to finish rounding things out.


----------



## b.lindsey

In the last two pictures the oil holes are drilled to lubricate the camgear as it runs on its fixed axle and the finished camgear shown next to the prototype. I still need to file the transition from the flats to the peak points of each lobe, but this shouldn't take much. That's it for the moment...thanks for looking. More machining will be done on the crankcase tomorrow. Now that final exams are over, the machine shop is quiet enough to allow for some concentration.


----------



## b.lindsey

For whatever its worth, the attached .pdf file shows the angles for the flats and how they were derived as well as the various positions of the RT.  

View attachment Camshaft.pdf


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## arnoldb

Bill, You're making excellent progress - and great looking parts :bow:

Regards, Arnold


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for checking in Arnold. Here is a little more progress on the crankcase...mostly just outting the angles on the base to match the oilpan and drilling the holes where the crankcase attaches to the oilpan. More and more metal is turning into chips...theres gotta be a crankcase in there somewhere ;D


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## steamer

Damn Sexy!......This is a great build

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## Deanofid

Quite a lot of work done in these last posts, Bill. A lot of swarf to make from the crankcase yet, but it's getting there. Springs look good, and sounds like things worked out just fine.
Thanks for the new pics and words!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean...and you're right...a lot more swarf to go on the crankcase both inside and out, and that will have to wait till Monday. Meanwhile, at home the Sherlines saw some more duty tonight with some work on the two ends of what will be the built up crankshaft. Picture 1 shows the flywheel end. The 1/4-28 left hand threads had already been cut and in this picture the taper is being turned which will mate to the same taper in the flywheel. Photo 2 shows the business end being turned down as in the prototype where a pulley would be added. In photo 3 the shaft was moved to the mill to cut a 3/32 wide by 3/64 deep keyseat. The last photo shows the two shafts separated by a space where the webs and crank will go. Also shown is the 7/16" hex nut (also with LH threads) which will hold the flywheel and starter hub onto this end of the crankshaft. That's it for today. This weekend I will be woriking on the valves, tappets, and spring retainers, which are all of a size perfect for the Sherline.


----------



## swilliams

Great work on the Crankcase Bill, looks like the semester ending frees up some valuable shop time for you.

Cheers
Steve


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## zeeprogrammer

Those gears are awesome. The springs too.
Very nice work Bill.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Steve and Zee. Yep...no more grading homework or tests or setting up labs for the next month but it will all start again in early January and with many of the senior design project teams needing shop time to make their prototypes, it will be super busy...but its also one of the best parts of the job!!

Zee, nice to see you checking in from time to time. I miss your posts, your humor, and seeing your projects too. How's the shop coming?? Can you see all your tools yet? :big:

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

This morning was spent in my little corner of the garage with the space heater keeping things more or less tolerable. Started out making a bushing for one end of the crankcase as it was easier to do this than try to machine it into the crankcase base directly. A gasket, washer, and 10-32 hex cap screw will cover the hole and secure this end to the oil pan (Photo's 1 & 2). Then one of the two tappets was turned from O2 drill rod as shown in photo 3. Another one of these will have to be made and both will need to be hardened.


----------



## b.lindsey

With those done, I got both of the valve spring keepers (retainers) made. These were pretty straightforward (just small). This is shown in the 3 photos below, with the last photo showing one of them fitted to the valve spring.


----------



## b.lindsey

The only other progress was finishing up the flywheel nut just for cosmetic reasons (Photo 1) and making the small stud which will stick out of the back side of the crankcase. On the prototype, this was the attachment point for the lever start mechanism. Unfotunately I don't have the lever so unless or until I find one to model, the little 6S will just be lacking that attachment. I'm hoping the rope pull start will work just as well. Anyway, the stud is shown among the other parts already mentioned in Photo 2. Doesn't look like much for for 5-6 hours of work but its progress none the less. One more tappet and two valves to go.


----------



## Deanofid

Seems like the same thing I always say, Bill, but it's all looking good. I like how the little spring keepers turned out. Just perfect.
I see you have the degree graduated swivel top slide accessory for your Sherline. Sure looks a lot handier than turning the headstock like I used to do with my old Sherline. Nice set up.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Going back to my first post today, I noted that the bushing needed a cover and a 10-32 hex cap screw. I had a small piece of stainlrss about the right size and knocked that out as shown in photo 1. The 10-32 SHCS just didn't get it so I decided to make a half scale one to duplicate the original screw shown in photo 2. In cutting the hex on the first one the end mill slipped and dug in, so a do-over was required and turned out better. The cover with the remake of the OEM type screw is shown in the last photo.

That's it fir today...I promise.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks again Dean. The compound accessory comes in handy at times. It has one drawback though. Depending on the angle set there are times when the thickness and width of the swivel plate can interfere with the chuck and not allow working as close to the chuck as might be desired. Its not a huge problem, but it is an inconvenience at times.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

This morning I took a little time just to take an inventory of where things stand. The first picture below was from back in May. The second picture is today with everything done thus far along with the now restored full size engine that the model is patterend after. It doesn't look like a lot I know but considering the carb has some 15 parts making it up, as well as learning how to make gears and springs, and with some recent progress on the crankcase and crankshaft parts... not to mention work, travels over the summer, new grandbaby and such, all in all I am ok with where things stand. It never promised to be a fast project anyway, and the drawings have been done and completed for the most part as each part was made.

Couldn't help but piece some of the sub-assemblies together as much as possible as shown in the last two photos. The more it takes shape the more inspired I get to keep the progress going now. Actually finishing up the crankcase and crankshaft is about all that stands between loose parts and assembly. Hopefully early 2011 will see the little 6S running.

Thanks to all of you that have followed along!!


----------



## Deanofid

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> It doesn't look like a lot I know but...



No Bill. It looks like a lot. It looks pretty much like a full sized tear down to me!  Thm:


----------



## swilliams

What Dean said. That's some impressive modeling Bill :bow::bow:


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## NickG

Blimey - somebody has been busy!  it looks amazing! :bow:


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks to each of you for having a look. Yesterday wasn't quite as productive however. Was working on the second tappet and killed two of them before finally getting the stem diameter close enough to be happy with. I have found that even O2 drill rod once your get it down to .125" dia will deflect even with a sharp cutting bit and light cuts. That's only with a stem length of 3/4" and working as close to the chuck as possible. I am rethinking the valves now, given the discussion in another thread about 1 vs. 2 piece valves. I may try to do them in 2 pieces and use 1/8 drill rod for the stems which need to be almost 2" long. Another thought is to use 1/8" ejector pin cut-offs from my days in injection molding. These are nitrided and end up somewhere between case hardened and through hardened, but the OD is polished and consistent. Over the years I have used these extensively for shafts since their outer hardness prevents marks from set screws and such. I will ponder on that today. Either was I am now leaning to a two piece design.

Bill


----------



## swilliams

Interesting Bill

I also had some trouble with deflection when I made my exhaust valve (1/8" stem, stainless). I think it ended up with about a 1 thou fish belly after several super light cuts, and I decided that I could live with that. Another way you could attack the problem would be to rig up some sort of rough traveling steady with an 1/8 I.D. bush. I still have the inlet valve to do, I might experiment with clamping a bit of brass plate with suitable hole drilled and reamed through it onto one of the fingers on my traveling steady. That things been sitting around for way too many years without being used  

How are you thinking of joining the stem to the head? Silver solder or something else?

Cheers
Steve


----------



## b.lindsey

Steve, my thought was to join the valve head and stem using silver solder. I looked last night and I do have some 1/8" Drill rod for the stems, and the head will also be drill rod. I am planning on soldering a cylindrical "blank" head to the stem, silver soldering on the underside, and then chucking the 1/8" stem in a collet to finish machining the head thickness, diameter, side angles. etc. I drew up a little soldering fixture which will allow the stem to push through the head about .250" and locate into a reamed hole. Then there will be a counterbore for the head "blank" also. This should allow the two pieces to be as close to perpendicular as possible for the soldering. The excess drill rod which will be sticking out the top of the valve will be machined away while machining the final valve head thickness. Since the soldering will be on the underside of the head, machining the top side should result in the seam between the stem and the head being virtually invisible. Since the valves in the prototype were not hardened (unlike the tappets), the valves won't have to be heat treated so there is no risk of the silver soldered joint coming loose. Given the discussion in another thread on valve head temps. the silver solder should be good to over 1000 degrees F, and with limited running, I doubt it will ever see such temps anyway. even on the exhaust side.


----------



## swilliams

Sounds like a good plan Bill. It will be interesting to see how it turns out, should be good


----------



## b.lindsey

Hopefully, I get started on this tonight Steve. I'll post pics of how it goes. Its the consistency of the drill rod that attractes me to this change of plans. I agree with you that anything within a thou or so will no doubt work and I am proceeding on that assumption with the tappets since they will require heat treating (doing that today in fact). For both the valves and tappets I am going to make some test holes...reamed to .124.125. and .126 to see which fit seems the best.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

This morning I fired up the heat treat furnace and let it come up to 1450 deg. F (photo 1). The two tappets were put in until they came up to temp. (see photo 2), they are so small it didn't take long) and then quenched in oil at around 150 deg F. Photo 3 shows the results, minimal scaling which flakes off easily. The end of each stem will need to be ground off slightly to get to the final length so I took a file to the ends and sure enough they are hard ! I'm cooling the furnace down now to the tempering temp. of 400 deg. F but once it gets up to 1450 degreed it takes a while to cool down that much. The stems measure between .125 and .126" on both so some further (and probably tedious) work will be needed to get them just under .125" Maybe some 600 grit paper followed by some clover compound I'm thinking to get a nice on size and semi-polished surface on the stems.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Bill,
I have found that whenever I harden drill rod it grows a little. I can't say what the percentage is to a given cross section but when I make tools from .375 drill rod it ends up just under .376. Usually I use a fine emery paper backed by a nice flat mill file and polish it down what I need. 
gbritnell


----------



## b.lindsey

Gb, Its hard to say...it didn't seem to shrink any and if anything it probebly grew .0002-.0003" There is still some very slight variation along each piece and between pieces, but the main thing is there is enough there to polish it downto fit nicely in a .125 reamed hole. Between the springs shrinking and the tappets growing, it tends to confuse a fellow :big:

It going to be a bit of a trick to hold these little parts with thin heads in order to size/polish the stems. Only thought I had was making a quick little fixture to seat the head into in the lathe chuck and then press on the stem with the tailstock center...any thoughts??

Using a good flat file as a backing for the emery paper in a good idea, and one I hadn't thought of so will give that a try

Bill


----------



## swilliams

Looks good Bill. Your idea of how to hold them sounds good to me. Another way would be to bore a small recess in the end of a bit of aluminum and stick them on with super glue. A little bit of heat or perhaps a few taps with a hammer will then get them off. 

Steve


----------



## b.lindsey

Last night I gave the two piece valves a try with unacceprable results. It wasn't the theory or the design that was bad, just on these small parts I got too much heat on them too quickly. Too much heat is as bad or worse than too little heat when silver soldering. Not wanting to give up on the idea, I made two more sets of components this afternoon (photo 1). The little fixture worked well enough. Photo 2 shows the valve stem and valve head blank fitted together in the fixture with a small amount of flux applied to the area of the joint. Last night I tried applying the solder after the parts were heated (or overheated as the case was). Today I tried a different approach, making a small solder ring to fit over the stem and against the head blank as shown in the third photo. The "Little Torch" was more than adequate for this job and today I actually held the heat down (photo 4) and the combination of these changes produced a much better result.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next photo shows the results of the soldering... a nice fillet of solder all around the stem and flowing out onto the undersside of the head also. In the last photo, I had cleaned up the underside with a small radiused bit leaving a more machined fillet but leaving enough solder to keep the joint strong...or so I hope. Tomorrow I will finish maching the heads, shortening the stems to the required length, and drilling a hole for the 1/16" pin which will secure the spring keeper to the stem.

Happy Holidays!!


----------



## Deanofid

Nice write-up and pictures as always, Bill. 
I notice there have been a few recent builds with folks using two piece valves. I'm curious about this. I've only made mine as single piece. Is there a reason for the two piece items?


----------



## b.lindsey

Dean,
In my case the valve stems were going to be about 1.700" long and I had originally designed them with some extra length on the end for a center drill and tailstock support. One of the few problems I have with the Sherline lathe is that without a tailstock extender, the tee slots on the crosslide are such that if the tool post is in the slot nearest the chuck, there isn't enough travel of the tailstock barrel to cover the width of the crossslide. With the toolpost closest to the tailstock then the left side of the crosslide will tangle with the chuck more easily. They make an extender for the tailstock but its one accessory I haven't bought yet. In this case though I had the piece of 1/8 drill rod...all nice and ground and polished and straight, which the stems need to be. As I had noted in a previous post the valves will not need to be heat treated so the silver solder will not be compromised by that...though I will heat up the bottom end of the stems and quench them to add some hardness there where they will engage the tappets. Finally the only pulling on the soldered joint should be from the valve springs which shouldn't be anywhere near enough force to strain the soldered joint. If it hadn't been for my failure on the first attempt, the whole process for making both valves should have been quicker that turning them from a solid piece, especially considering that the turned stems would have needed some extra time to polish them and work out any slight variations in diameter. Basically I think this two part process is a little more foolproof for the average guy like me, but ultimately time will tell.

Bill


----------



## swilliams

They seem to have worked out nicely Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Steve, A few more sips of coffee and I'm headed out to the shop to try and finish them up. Pics to follow.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

The valves are pretty well finished now I think. After reducing the head thickness to .075" plus a thousandth or two to allow for removing the machine marks on the top of the heads, the 45 degree angle was cut. The combination of the collet adapter and the little compound angle attachment for the Sherline worked very well for this operation as shown in photo 1. Then the two dimples in the top of each valve (I assume this was used to spin the valves in the seating process in the prototype but if not maybe someone can enlighten me) were made using just the lead-in tip of a #1 center drill to a depth of .040". (Photo 2) This was done more for appearance in the model so as to match the full sixze valves. The third picture shows drilling the 1/16" holes in each stem where a 1/16" x .250 pin will slide in to hold the spring keeper onto the stem. The drilling is shown in photo 3 and the assembled valve/spring/keeper/pin is shown in the last photo.


----------



## b.lindsey

Another view of the assembled valves from the bottom side and then shown with one of the full size ones. The stems on the model valves have been left long for now until the assembly phase when they will be ground to the correct length based on the valve clearance required once the camshaftr, tappets, and valves are installed and after the valves are seated in the head.


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## Deanofid

Thanks for your thoughts and explanation regarding the valves, Bill. They sure came out nice, and looking just like their larger cousin. 

Dean


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean, so far I am pleased with the results. Now I am pondering what to do about valve cages. The prototype engine with its cast iron crankcase just had straight reamed holes for the valves and tappets both, but I don't think that will work too well with an aluninum block. The valves might be ok but the tappets will have some side foces working on them when the cams come around, so something harder will be needed. I am thinking either a bronze liner or perhaps even a cylindrical drill bushing which would last two lifetimes, if I can find one with a small enough OD.

Merry Christmas everyone!!

Bill


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## Deanofid

Or maybe use cast iron for the guides, Bill. Pretty easy to machine, and worked for the prototype, too. Should last a long time.


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## b.lindsey

Simple, elegant, and goes back to the prototype too as you say. The machinability would be a plus too...I like it!!

Bill


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## swilliams

The valves came out well Bill. Nice job


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for having a look Steve. Before heading out to be with family yesterday afternoon, I had a few hours in the shop and got the tappets finished up and looking shiney again after the heat treating. Both of them are a nice slip fit in a .125" reamed hole now which is what I was after. Some fine emery paper backed with a flat file as gbritnell had suggested earlier worked very well though in the hardened state, material removal was very slow. Fortunately not much had to be removed...maybe .0005 or so.


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## arnoldb

The valves and tappets really came out well Bill Thm:

Kind regards, Arnold


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold, sorry I haven't replied sooner. I did get a start on the center part of the crankshaft which will be cast iron. The first few steps are shown in the pictures below. I wasn't happy with the bore though...but didn't have another piece of CI at home last week so had to wait until yesterday to cut another piece at work. Will be working on that this week but the first steps will be the same. I want it to be a light shrink fit so things will stay in place for pinning. Anyway I will post further pics as progress is made.

As an aside, I had thought about ordering a piece of 1.5" OD cast iron which I could have gotten last week. Metal Express wanted $47 for a 12" piece. Checked MSC and found the same thing for $17. Couldn't believe the difference!!!


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## b.lindsey

Meanwhile...since I was castiron-less I did manage to draw up a few other fiddly parts, some of which had already been made and some that hadn't. One that hadn't was the little keeper that fits over the removable part of the con rod to keep the bolts from backing out. Once the bolts are installed the edges of the wider tabs are bent up to press against the flats of the bolt heads. I am not planning on relying on this alone...its more for appearance (which noone will ever see) but I trimmed, sanded,filed that out this morning from a paper template sticky glued to a piece of .009 brass shim stock. I think it came out ok but will check the fit on the con rod tonight. The third picture shows where it will fit.


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## GailInNM

Your progress is sure looking nice Bill.
The attention to detail, both seen and unseen is great.
I follow every post you make on this engine, but don't reply often.
Thanks for the postings.

On cast iron, Enco has 1-1/2 for about $13.50/ft. I use quite a bit of CI, so I use it to fill in orders if I need to to get to one of Enco free shipping offers. Makes it inexpensive to work with. When you look for it on their web site, it is listed as "gray iron". 

Gail in NM


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Gail, and thanks for the info on ENCO too. I do get their flyers (seems like one every week or two). Here at the school I but a lot from MSC since they give us good pricing and are an approved vendor, etc. so I often look to them first but as you point out there are other sources out there. We do a good bit of business with Metal Express too mainly because they have a local warehouse,and usually their prices are at least aceptable, but 3X to 4X the price for a piece of CI is just unreasonable.

Thanks for following along...I know it seems VERY slow at times... but I really am gaining on it...can see the light at the end of the tunnel now...just hope it ain't a train :big:

Regards,

Bill


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## joe d

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> I know it seems VERY slow at times...



Bill: It's not a race..... :big: Been following from the start, and have been very much enjoying your project. 
Keep on keeping on 

Cheers, Joe


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## b.lindsey

Thanks for the encouragement Joe, and for following along!!

Bill


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## tel

I"m constantly being blown away by your attention to detail Bill - it's a wonder B&S haven't made you a serious offer.


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## b.lindsey

Tel, thanks for the kind words. If the project turns out well, as I hope and expect it to, I have wondered what their reaction might be...not from a job standpoint (after all this is a 60 year old engine)...but if it were to become a published project or the plans offered, it obviously contains their trademarked name. Something to ponder at least. I can't imagine B&S being upset but I would much rather have their approval or support or even endorsement if it were to get to that point. For now I'll just keep plodding along.

Bill


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## Deanofid

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> ...its more for appearance (which noone will ever see)..



That says a good deal about you as a workman, Bill! Details make a difference.

About being slow, or the time it takes between posts, it just seems to make every new post all the more welcome, to me. I watch for this build.
Thanks for updating the thread, and for the good pics.

Dean


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## steamer

Bill,

We all do this as a hobby, a labor of love.  Take your time....Don't look back on your finished engine and say...gee I wish I took the time to do......

Dave


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Steamer...wise words too. I think for all of us this is a labor of love, whatever our skill levels are. Whether I am looking at the work of an accomplished craftsman and sharing in the complexity of a design or execution of it, or sharing in the pride of a newcomer (I hate the word newbie) completing a first runner, the sharing is always real and that is at the core of this community. For that I am greatful to all of you!!

I tried the little keeper this evening and it fit perfectly (rather be lucky than good)!!

Here are a couple of pics of where and how it attaches to the con rod. The SHCS will be replaced as soon as i shorten a cap screw to fit in that blind hole.

Thanks to all who are following along!!

Edit: Obviously I didn't bend the tabs up to engage the hex head. This is kind of a one use part so that will wait until the FINAL final assembly stage.


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## swilliams

Looks great Bill. Reminds me of a big end coming undone in my dads outboard when I was fishing with him and in my teens. Engine went from flat out to a dead stop real quick.


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## b.lindsey

Here's to hoping that won't happen here. Talk about a long face....lol


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## ozzie46

I'll second what Dean and Steamer have already said. I really look forward to your updates. Take all the time you need it just makes it better.

 Ron


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## steamer

Boy I'll tell ya..that sure looks like a bunch of Briggs I tore apart as a kid.... ;D

Dave


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## b.lindsey

Thanks guys, and I mean that sincerely. The fact that it reminds you of the real thing makes all the attention to the details worth every bit of the extra time it takes.


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## arnoldb

Bill, :bow: :bow: - and What the others said!

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Deanofid

Looks line new old stock, Bill. Fantastic!


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Arnold. One of the other things I played around with last week was trying to photoetch the nameplate/oiling instructions on a piece of brass rather than using the laminated printed version shown much earlier in this thread. Special thanks to James Peach who was kind enough to steer me in the direction of some supplies and techniques and has also followed the build thread. There is definitely a learning curve, at least at this small scale and there were many frustrating attempts that failed miserably but the result shown below is reasonably acceptable. I truly doubt that anyone will read the nameplate anyway so from a foot or so away it looks pretty good. Just a quick walkthrough...the image is first laser copied onto the photoresist film in reverse...and yes even knowing better, I managed to forget that step once or twice. That is shown in photo 1. Then the image side of the film is placed on the brass (in this case) plate and literally ironed onto it. This is where the frustration comes in...finding just the right temperature and time to get the image to transfer completely. Some kind of commercial hot press would be ideal but a bit pricey for a one off project. Anyway photo 2 shows one of the better transfers. I also found out that the surface preparation of the brass is very critical as well... steel wool or a brillo pad with soap worked even better...to get any oil or oxidation off of the surface of the metal. Then into the ferric chloride for about 15-20 minutes, scrub off the photoresist image, and what i ended up with is shown in photo 3. After squaring things up, and getting the overall size down to what I wanted, I masked the etched part and bead blasted a 1/8" border all around to end up with what is shown in photo 4. Sorry the photos aren't better but the actual size of the printed part is 1.15" wide x 1.375" tall. With an eye loupe, a surprising amount of it can be read, particularly the Briggs name and address, the model #, type, and serial number. After that the oiling instructions are somewhat iffy...some of the words can be made out but others not. Those smaller letters are only about .015-.-20 tall. It has been a fun learning experience and though not perfected totally, I still think it will look better than the laminated printed version. 

Thanks again for all the help James!!


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## swilliams

That looks great Bill. In some ways the imperfections make it seem a little more realistic, kinda like it's been cast. This is going to be really something when you finish :bow: :bow:


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## Noitoen

The most important is the "cleanliness" of the brass. When you clean the plate scrub it with a kitchen scrubber using hot water and soap and gloves. Do not touch it with your fingers. I use a laser printer and transparency film and iron it on covered with a couple of layers of cloth not to melt the film. Let it cool completely an the film will peel off nicely. Don't forget to cover the back of the plate with some regular spray paint to insulate it.


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Noitoen. Most of those tips were included in the film manufacturer's "how to" instructions but it still took a little practice to see just how critical they were. I also found the correct iron temp was critical and some of the early efforts just didn't have enough heat to transfer to the brass. One other thing I found was that the ironing needs to be done on a hard surface, not on the soft top ironing board itself. I ended up using a piece of 1/2" thick board ... this seems to give much better and more even contact during the ironing process.

I found a good clear black and white image of the B&S diamond logo yesterday which I want to try also for possible addition to the main shroud where B&S used a decal. Unfortunately as I'm sure rake60 and other Briggs collectors will note, this logo is the one Briggs used up until 1945 or so, prior to the 1950's but the differences are pretty small...the main one being the use of the word "Motors" rather than the later "Engines." As shown below I want to try it in the original form and in "reverse" to see which will come out better. In these images, the black postions will NOT be etched and the white portions will be. More to come...

Steve, thanks for your comments too. The original nameplate seems to be screen printed onto an aluminum plate with the model #, type#, and serial # later stamped into the appropriate places. Though with age it still is pretty rough looking so maybe I can claim that my imperfections were done on purpose to simulate 60 years of aging :big:


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## steamer

Hi Bill,

I don't want to go OT, but do you have a commercial "Kit" to do that photoetching?

I can think of severel places where I would like to do that.

Dave


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## b.lindsey

Dave, I will pass on the information that was given to me. The etching film (actually intended for making printed circuit boards) came from http://www.techniks.com/. It is their PnP Blue. They also show how to instructions on their site. I got the ferric chloride from www.micromark.com though I was told the electronic places like Radio Shack may have it too. Altogether I innvested like $50 in the film and chemicals and have plenty to play around with. The trick with the film (learned this the hard way too) is to put as many images on it as you can since you can't rerun it through the laser printed more than once and expect good results. So I learned to do that then cut the images apart in case repeated attempts were needed...which in my case they were... ;D. I does require a laser printer...ink jet won't do it.

It sounds like Noitoen may have used overhead projector transparency film instead which might be cheaper but haven't tried that.

As for something to do the etching in, I picked up a cheapy food storage container with a good locking lid at the grocery store. Same for brillo pads, rubber kitchen gloves, etc.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Well it is snowing here in NC which means that virtually EVERYTHING is shut down including the university (nice way to start the first day of the Spring semester...ugh!). Got a little done over the weekend on the B&S diamond logo nameplate shown below and as a diversion a little woodwork done on the base for the engine also shown below. So....since i will have a little extra time on my hands today I may work on the base a little more...sanding, glueing, drilling the mounting holes, etc. Other than that, plan on staying warm inside and working on the drawings some. The nameplate actually looks better than in the picture due to lighting and shadows. It will be cut, and filed right down to the outer border of the diamond for later attachment to whatever I decide to use for the shroud...still pondering on that.


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## b.lindsey

More work on the base on this leisurely snow day...got a big pot of 15 bean soup with country ham chunks simmering on the stove...life is good !!

I did get the radii on the underside of both runners sanded as well as the flat surfaces. Before glueing the cross pieces to the runners, I chamfered the bottom edges inside and out just slightly to soften the lines just a little, then glued it together, clamped it all up and waited. Once unclamped, more sanding, especially the joint areas, and chamfered all the top edges as well, including the cross pieces which form the "U" on each end and between them where they form the boxed in area in the middle. I think it looks better with the beveled edges than in the last pic in the previous post. The last picture shows the engine oil pan/base where it will fit on the wooden base. Two of the mounting holes (in one cross piece) were already drilled before assembly. The holes in the other cross piece will be added later in case the thing swells some from staining and polyurethane finish. The base is red oak which I use for all my engine bases along with a golden pecan stain just for consistency. Guess I am too much a creature of habit, at least in these things. On to the staining now...and the soup too 

Thanks for checking in.


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## steamer

Thanks Bill!

I am thinking of redoing my gage dials, that should work


You continue to amaze me with your craftsmanship...Well Done!

Dave


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## NickG

Wow, a master of wood work as well! It looks spot on, but it's a good job - you can't have anything letting that engine down. The whole thing is fantastic it deserves to start and run perfectly first time! :bow:

Nick


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Dave, I hope the information helps. Thank you too Nick, maybe in my wildest dreams that would happen but I am not holding my breath. If it cranks up in the first 50 tries I'll be happy!!!

Bill


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## kcraig51

I'm new to this forum and have been looking at the build on this engine. I've been a machinist and small engine mechanic for 25 yrs and all I can say is WOW! I cannot believe my eyes. Especially the tank and carb. Absolutely amazing. I'll will be following this thread like a hawk. I can't wait to see it completed. You have GOT to put out a book, DVD, or something about it!  :bow:
Keith


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## b.lindsey

Hi Keith and first of all welcome to the forum. I am sure with your experience you will be able to jump right in with your own projects and contribute in other ways too. That's the great thing about HMEM, when we get stuck on something, there is usually somebody to help out or offer useful advice. That has certainly been the case with this project.

There will at least be a set of plans based on what I have done once it is finished. Actually those have been done concurrently along with the build but there is still a ways to go.

Again, thanks for looking and welcome to HMEM. It would be helpful if you would add a brief bio of your interests and experiences in the welcome section so everyone can get to know you.

Bill


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## kustomkb

Everything you have made looks superb Bill!

Great progress. It will sure be a treat to see it all come together.


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Kevin, we are still snowed in here again today so i should get a little more shop time in once i get it warmed up a bit. I need to get back on the crankshaft.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Well not to beat this to death but the base is now stained and i like the contrast it brought out in the grains. Applying the polyurethane finish will have to wait for warmer weather or I will have to do it at work. Doing it inside at home won't fly


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## joe d

Bill

Looking good, that brown stuff.... Have you tried the water-based varathane yet?
Dry to touch in an hour, re-coat after 4 hours, virtually odourless. I've been using it for a couple of 
years now, and recommend it. Goes on looking like milk, but clears as it dries. Seems to take about the same amount of re-coating to get a smooth finish, with light fine sanding in-between.

Joe


----------



## b.lindsey

Joe, no I haven't tried it yet but will check into it at the local home improvement center. Is it strictly a brush on product or is it available in a spray can too? My brushing skills leave something to be desired. If not I guess I could always use a paint sprayer or airbrush if its thin enough. Thanks for the tip, will definitely look for it.

Bill


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## joe d

Hi Bill

I've never seen it in a spray can, but on the other hand, I've never looked ;D

It's a really watery consistency, would think it would spray OK with an airbrush.
 I use the throw-away foam brushes, one per coat, don't have any particular issues with 
brush marks, runny enough stuff that it self-levels.

This is what it looks like on some oak:





Joe


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## Rustkolector

Bill,
One minor point for those wanting to photo etch brass. Regular 360 brass, that is most frequently found, is not ideal for photo etching. It has a relatively high zinc content that does not produce the cleanest etch. Commercial photo etching companies use a brass known as "commercial brass", or 220 brass. It has a lower zinc content and is reddish in color. If you can find it in the size you need, I have found that it does produce a better result than 360 brass. 

Warming up the ferric chloride solution to about 130F, and keeping it circulating speeds things up also, and reduces undercutting of small letters. Nice work!

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks again Joe, Hopefully when all this "white" stuff gets off the roads I can get by Lowes and check it out. The only possible concern I might have would be its resistance to gas or oil.

Jeff, thanks for that information. The instructions did not mention heating up the ferric chloride and I suspect you are correct as to my using 360 brass. IIRC the .015" sheet stock I used came from micro-mark without any particular identification so it could well be 360. I though about trying it on some copper sheet since the process is largely intended for etching circuit boards. May still try that just to experiment some along with your heating and circulation suggestions. 

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Finally got to resume work on the center portion of the crankshaft. Had to remake the blank since the bore on the original one was slightly too big. This time I was happier with the results and the shafts sould be a press or slight shrink fit. Anyway, after this backtracking, I put the blank on the mill, centered it and put a small center drill mark the required offset distance for the crankpin. Then I centered the mark in the 4 jaw which was a stretch on the little Sherline but it worked (photo 1). Rather than turning it in the lathe I opted to use the RT set up vertically with the RT tailstock for added support and rough milled the width and depth until the crankpin was within about .040" of the .375 diameter required (photo 2). Then back to the lathe with RH and LH turning tools to get the OD closer (photo 3). Now its a matter of finishing the pin diameter and fitting it to the bore of the connecting. There is still more profiling to do after that but I think the hardest part is done.


----------



## Deanofid

Pretty good sized job for your Sherlines, Bill. Not many guys can say they built a Briggs and Stratton on Sherline equipment. Things are coming along very well!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean. It pretty well maxed out the mill and lathe both for a standard type set-up. I have seen some way-out-there set-ups done on Sherline equipment but when a larger machine makes more sense then that is what I use. Even so, in the end I would guess that somewhere between 60-70% will have been done on the small machines.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Just a quick update on the logo nameplate shown a few posts back. It has now been cut down and filed down to the edge of the outer border. Turned out well I think, even better from a foot or so away. Not sure where or how or if I will use it yet. It may end up going on the wooden base instead. I am thinking about trying another avenue also based on the mylar decals I got for the restored full size engine. While those may have been screen printed, has anyone tried laser printing on adhesive backed Mylar (polyester) film and if so what stock did you use. The only thing I have found so far is the clear Avery labels for laser printing, but am afraid they may come out too translucent. They are however, polyester film based whereas all the while labels seem to be paper. The experimenting continues....


----------



## ddmckee54

Try your local hobby shop, you'll want to get decal paper. You should be able to get either white or clear decal paper. They should also be able to tell you how to use the paper and seal your decal so it won't run or smear when you try to use it.

Long time lurker,
Don


----------



## b.lindsey

Hi Don and thanks. I am familiar with the regular wet transfer decal paper and fixative sprays, but was hoping to find something more durable and slightly thicker. Then again back in the 40's and 50's before the vinyl/plastics/stick-on revolution, even B&S may have used wet transfer decals for their logo, where it wasn't subject to much heat. I appreciate the input in any case!!

Bill


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## arnoldb

Bill - Great job ;D

If you're using a laser printer for your transfers, make sure you set it to darken the output on the paper if you can; it'll add more toner making for an easier and better sticking transfer.
The ferric chloride works a treat - but in years gone by during PCB making, I found that you can actually mix it too strong and get severe undercutting very quickly. When etching, keep the solution moving; that I found pretty much essential back then for good results. 2 Namibian cents worth, so you get less than US$0.003 

Kind regards, Arnold


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## b.lindsey

Definitely worth the price Arnold and more too! I did keep it agitated but did not heat it as Jeff had suggested. Since the film is more like transparency sheets I did set the printer for transparencies, but not sure what that did to the toner thickness. Now with all these tips you guys are gonna make me start all over :big: Worst case I will file them away for future reference. Thanks to all for the suggestions, there may be others interested in trying this also and your input can only help.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

More work yesterday on the crank...back to the lathe to bring the crankpin closer to the needed .375" diameter with some gradual and careful filing and smoothing with 400 grit paper. Once it was close I used the DTI to check for roundness (photo 1) and a bit surprisingly I found a couple of high spots. With the lathe off I used the 400 grit paper just on the high spots (similar to buffing the toe of a shoe during a shoeshine) and kept rechecking until the pin was round to within about .0005" (photo2). Then the conrod was fit around it and checked for a nice running fit. There were still a couple of binding points (due to the bore of the conrod rather than the pin, so I worked put a dab of "very fine clover compound in the conrod bore, reassembled it and worked it round and round (not under power) until things leveled out (photo 3). After cleaning, oiling and reassembling again the fit seems as close as I am able to get it. This area should get more than enough lubrication under running conditions. With that step done I could  finallly part of the crank web and go back to the 3 jaw chuck to bring the whole thing down to the required width and then turn the bearing surfaces on either end as shown in the final picture. Today I will work more on the webs, forming the counterbalance portions opposite the crankpin and narrowing the arms from the pin down to where the counterbalance portion begins. Hope to have more progress to show later.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Sorry I haven't been keeping up as much as I'd like to.

I like the nameplate. I've thought about what I'd do for that once I get around to making bases or feeling proud enough of my work. No laser printer here so at some point I'll have to investigate alternatives.

Your base looks good too. Well...everything looks good. You do real good work.


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Zee...I have been following your Spinster project too and enjoying that. I'm glad things are back to a more normal situation in your shop too.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

More great progress, Bill. Seeing the con-rod on the crank, it looks so 'full sized'. Such a good build.


----------



## swilliams

Love the pictures of the crank on the Sherline Bill. Amazing what those little machines can do.

Steve


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Steve. I spent all afternoon and evening in the shop dead set on getting the crankshaft done and I am there except for pinning it together and some bead blasting on the crank to blend out some machining, filing and burr grinfing marks and to make it look more like a casting which the original definitely is. The four pictures in this post show the steps for thinning the crank arms, further reducing their width under the bearing surfaces on each end and finally reducing their side to side thickness... hopefully the pictures make it clearer than my poor description.


----------



## b.lindsey

Next came the assembly and putting in the two separate shafts that had been made previously. Not much here to describe so I'll just show the resulrs along with the prototype crankshaft.


----------



## ttrikalin

pretty neat!

I will be spending some time reading this thread tonite, it's been a while since I last followed it... 

A fellow sherliner, I see? 

take care, 

tom in MA


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for looking in again Tom. Lastly for tonight, I wanted to see that the whole thing would look like with the piston and con rod attached. Again no description necessary. This part is one of the one's I was most worried about reproducing faithfully to the original, and its not a perfect match but i think it does have much of the same character as the prototype so all in all i am happy with and happy to be done with it.


----------



## wareagle

Bill, I haven't jumped in here until now. First, all I can say is "WOW!" Excellent craftsmanship on the little B&S.  :bow:

Secondly, I have sat here this evening for the last hour going over this entire thread and want to say thanks for bringing us along on the journey. Threads like this are an inspiration to me many of us on this board. So, thanks for taking the time to document the progress.

I have a small engine project I started quite a while back, and life worked its way between me and the ability to finish it up. Time is a precious commodity, and I have had very little of it during the past couple of years. As soon as I finish typing this reply, I am off to the man cave to see exactly where I left off. Who knows, there might be a few chips flying this evening!

Best regards,
Casey


----------



## b.lindsey

Wareagle, thanks so mich for the kind words and for taking YOUR time to go through the thread. As you can tell, this project has had a more than a few starts and stops as well...so I know how much of a premium time for hobbies can be at times, So here's to making more chips and more time in the man cave... and I look forward to seeing what you've been up to also.

Regards,
Bill


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## Deanofid

Bill, your new pics for today... Wow. Like Casey said, inspirational, and in so many ways. 
I follow a number of threads and read the forum every day. I don't get to post as much lately, simply from being well and happily busy. I always try to hit this thread, though, and watch for new postings here.
I expect the finished engine to be as extraordinary as your work here, and I'm sure it will be!

The crank, rod, and piston all together for their family shot is great!

Dean


----------



## NickG

Just echoing what Dean said, it's a work of art just like the rest of the engine. You'll need to make another though to display next to it as it's such a shame that won't be seen tucked away inside the crankcase! :big:

Nick


----------



## rake60

Beautiful craftsmanship Bill! :bow

Rick


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## b.lindsey

Dean, Nick, and Rick...thanks for the kind words. Never one to leave things alone, before bead blasting the crank today I decided that the upper end of the crank arms near the crankpin needed to be rounded more like the prototype which was done on the belt sander at work...its a better match now as shown in the photo compared to those i posted yesterday, I have to order the taper pins and reamer but will lay this aside now and get back to the crankcase which is the last major part...hard to believe. That light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.


----------



## krv3000

HI all i can say is beautiful work


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## NickG

Crankshaft Porn!


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Nick....I think.... :big:


----------



## b.lindsey

One thing left to do on the flywheel was to taper its bore to match that of the crankshaft. After missing the mark while trying to do this on the flywheel itself, I bored it out to .500 and remachine a bushing instead which was Loctited into the flywheel. This is probably how it should have been done in the first place but time will tell. The set-up for machining the bushing taper is shown in photo 1. In order for the two taper to fit as closely as possible the crankshafe was mounted in the lathe chuck and the flywheel held against it. Several applications of some very fine Clover compound with cleaning in between each seemed to seat the tapers well with little to no wobble in the flysheel (photo 2). The last two pictures are of the crankshaft in position through the mounting plate which holds the oilite bushing that supports the flywheel side of the crankshaft. An identical bushing will be mounted in the crankcase to support the other side of the crankshaft.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next pictures are still of the whole sub-assembly..it was just too tempting to see how it was all going to fit together. The 6/0 taper pins and reamer arrived so today i hope to get the crankshaft all pinned together but more on that later.

Thanks for having a look.


----------



## arnoldb

Simply STUNNING Bill :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold. So far its fitting together nicely...as few little issues here and there but nothing too bad yet.

Bill


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## Deanofid

Thanks for the new pics, Bill. It looks fantastic!


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Every time I pop in here I have to say to myself...impressive, beautiful, excellent craftmanship...I usually end up muttering 'sheesh...someday I can do that'.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Zee. Zee, I am a firm believer in the notion that once the basic skills are mastered (which you have accomplished), the rest is just a matter of chaining more steps or more set-ups together to do more complex things. Experience comes into play in helping plan ahead, seeing one or two or three steps down the road, remembering what worked before and what didn't,maybe avoiding a few mistakes (which I still make plenty of), or maybe doing things a bit faster (all evidence in this build log to the contrary) ;D The point is just keep after it...you CAN do it!!

That said, I had a fun time pinning the crankshaft together this afternoon...NOT!! It all went well just slowly. The thing about taper pins unlike straight dowel pins is that the deeper you ream the more surface area there is to ream due to the taper angle. I center drilled the crank arms, drilled through slowly with a 1/16" drill the enlarged each hole halfway through with a #51 drill (.067") which made the reaming go a little easier. The straight flute taper pin reamer is for hand use so I put it in a small drill chuck and turned it by hand in order to feel it better. Every 4-5 rounds I took it out, cleaned the flutes, and dipped it in some dark thread cutting oil for lubrication.An hour or so later I had both holes reamedjust to where the taper pins would fit all the way through. This is shown in the photos below. Photo 1 shows the drilling set-up, photo 2 the two drilled holes, photo 3 the reamer just coming through and photo 4 the entry side of the holes with the right hand hole alre3ady reamed


----------



## b.lindsey

The last three photos for now show the first pin kisy peeling out of the small end of the hole, both pins from the entry side, and lastly the small size of the reamer itself...doesn't look like 30+ dollars does it, but thankfully it survuved. The pins still need to be loctited in and the excess cut off from the entry side, and I still have to pin the crank gear to the shaft but need to locate it more precisely first and make a timing mark on that side of the crank. That will be another day though!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for checking in Pat...but the saga continues. When I tried to fit the original shroud (the white cover) over the crank/flywheel/starter hub, there was interference between the front of the flywheel and the inner front side of the shroud  That was easy enough to fix...just changed the Solidworks file and ran another RP model which worked fine. Actually the newer dimensions are closer to the prototype and this was at least a minor change. The results of the new one are shown in the photo. Yesterday morning I was going to attempt to fit the crankshaft/plate/shroud assembly into the crankcase and DRATS!!! the major OD of the crankshaft is 1.438 and the hole through the crankcase is 1.375" ....hmmm that ain't gonna work!! No doubt in the early design work on the crankcase I used a little design liscense trying to be conservative but at the same time not looking far enough down the road and seeing this roadblock. Since the holes for mounting the plate to the crankcase have already been drilled and the mounting ring already cut into the face of the crankcase (see photo 2) the options were/are as follows:

1)Enlarge the hole in the crankcase to 1.438" - possible, but that leaves too little material on the inside of the four mounting holes. This would also mean remaking the ring on the back of the plate which fits into this hole. Not a great option.

2) Cut down the center part of the crankshaft to 1.375" - also not a good option since that would basically eliminate the small shoulder above the crank pin. I did consider taking the full 1/16" in diameter from just the counterweights, but then the whole crank is not symmetrical and the weight may in fact be needed.

3) Remaking the crankcase/plate/mounting ring - not a chance 

4) Enlarge the crankcase bore to 1.425" and shave a mere .006-.007" off of the OD of the crankshaft - This leaves a little more material on the inside edge of the mounting holes and keeps the symmetry and crankpin shoulder of the crankshaft. It will still require remaking the mounting ring on the back of the plate but that is a pretty minor penalty for this lack of foresight. So this is the direction I am going to try...stay tuned


----------



## b.lindsey

Am hoping to get started on the correction to the crankcase today. Meanwhile I figured I would need something on the wooden base to house all the ignition components (planning to use the CDI ignition from S/S Machine & Engr.) so more of the brown stuff to make a little box for that. It looks HUGE in the pictures but in reality it is only 3" high x 5" long x 3" deep. Once the rest of the engine is sitting on the base it shouldn't look quite as disproportional. Anyway, here are a few pics of that.


----------



## NickG

Wow, got brown stuff envy now! Is that glued together or some sort of lap joint similar to frame? :bow:

Nick


----------



## b.lindsey

Hi Nick, the box is just held together with butt joints and glue, sorry, no fancy dovetails or lap joints. All it has to do is look decent and hold together. Wouldn't want it to detract from the engine once its in place now would I?  :big:

Bill


----------



## arnoldb

True eye-candy every time I check in Bill :bow:

Sorry to hear about the crank clearance; I'm sure you'll soon have that sorted out though!

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## Deanofid

That skid and box are going to look great with the engine, Bill.  Thm:


----------



## joe d

Bill

Looking good. So: what did you finally use for the finish?

Joe


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for looking in Arnold, Dean and Pat. Joe I tried the Varethane using foam brushes and it seemed to work out very well. In the pictures of the box above it had only been stained at that point. I also did the finishing at work where it could be left in a warmer environment overnight as well.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Hasn't been a productive week and had to be in Houston for 4 days as well, but have managed to get back to where I was. The crankcase opening was bored out and a new bushing retainer was made to fit the larger hole. The crank diameter was reduced just enough to fit the new hole...checked it this time before assuming....duh! Anyway now back to the crankcase so I can start hanging the various components off of it so it will start looking like the engine it is supposed to be.


----------



## steamer

Geeez Bill that's looking Awesome!.....I'm digging this build for sure.

When and If you get plans together ....I'll be in line.

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dave, and yes theere are plans,but still being finalized as the build progresses.

Bill


----------



## steamer

Ya know bill...I can still smell the rank oil on the inside of that old briggs when I too it apart some 30..mumbble mumble mumble years ago......I bet I took it apart and put it together about 15 times ....just to say I could....cool build!

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Dave, my Dad used to bring home old air compressors and i would do the same thing,,,take them apart and put them back together over and over. I was probably 7 or 8 at the time so I guess something "took."

As for this evenings post. I did get a start on the backside of the crankcase, locating and milling to depth (how much they will stick out) the various bolsters on that side of the crankcase. Then I scribed a few lines more to indicate where NOT to mill away material...mostly where the angled webs willl be located. Figured this would be a good idea sine i've already tried to kill this thing off once. :big: Not too much to show yet but a couple of pics none the less.


----------



## b.lindsey

Switching sides of the crankcase I began milling our the area where the tappets and valve stems meet...whatever one might call that area. Its tough to get much machine time as all the senior engineering students have been working diligently on the prototypes for their projects and that has priority as it should. But small steps are better than none so the crankcase if lighter by a half ounce or so anyway. (photo 1).

I have also been working on the idea of printing decals on 3M clear permanent adhexive label stock. I found some with full 8 1/2 x 11 sheets and since they can only be run through the printer once I laid out a whole sheet of 6 sets so if it does work I will have some to play with ans see how durable they are, etc. These were all done in AutoCAD, two of them fit on the air cleaner (one on top and one on the side) and the other is the logo decal that will fit on the shroud. They print fine in color on regular paper but I don't know yet if they will print well on the clear stock, and how opaque they will be. In any event its been a fun little diversion while waiting on some machine time. I will try printing them on the label stock tonight so keeping my fingers crossed : The sheet layont is shown in the .pdf file by the way.








View attachment B&S Decal Layout1 (1).pdf


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Bill,
Seeing the two pieces together brings a question to mind. Are you going to make the fins tapered as on the full sized engine? If so you could probably rough them out and then go back in with a small tapered end mill to finish them up.
George


----------



## b.lindsey

Good observation George and a good question too. The answer is probably a little bit of a cop out... but the plan is to use a 1/8" face width slotting saw and doing all of the fin work on the rotary table with everything referenced from the center of the cylinder, and leaving approx. .100" of aluminum around the cast iron liner on all sides (more properly the three finned sides) at the full depth of the fins. At half scale, I think the visible difference will be minor, plus the fact that the shroud covers one side of the fins, and what I am calling the cylinder shield (the wrap around part where the name plate attaches) will cover the front and pulley side of the fins for all practical purposes. In this case its more a matter of how I think I can most accurately machine the fins, and clamping the crankcase vertically on the rotary table is well within my comfort level, though even then it will be done slowly. Lastly I have to say that my skills are not up to yours as the work you have done on your tranny case is stunning to say the least :bow: 

The attached .pdf shows the relative fin thickness vs. 1/8 spacing between fins. What I may do for appearance sake is to round the outer edges of the fins once they are cut to better match the appearance of the original. I am certainly open to other suggestions though.

Bill 

View attachment BS6S Crankcase1 (1).pdf


----------



## b.lindsey

Even though the label package was labeled for inkjet printers (all I could find), I printed it on the color laser and it seemed to work fine. The whole page (six sers of labels) is shown in photo 1. Photos 2,3 and 4 show them applied where they would be on the prototype. A little more care in trimming and applying the one to the top of the air cleaner would have resulted in a better application but thats why I have 6 sets to play with . Overall the opacity is good, and there wasn't any smearing as might be the case with ink jet printing especially if wet. I'll play with them a couple of days to make sure they stick well and such, but now that the template is done, even if they needed replacing periodically its no big deal. All in all this was a good trial and the clarity of the lettering came out very well. Thanks for checking in.


----------



## b.lindsey

Here's one last picture of the shroud and air cleaner together.


----------



## steamer

That is really looking great Bill.  Keep it up !

 :bow:


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks steamer. I was really pleased with how the "decals" came out. Its a technique I will definitely be using again assuming they hold up well. The only downside is that you can't just make one small decal...actually I could have put a lot more on that one sheet.

Bill


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## ddmckee54

If you haven't sealed the decals yet the first time you get oil or just about any other liquid on them you'll probably end up with a mess. The usual sealing method would be to shoot them with several very light coats of clear lacquer with plenty of drying time between coats. Then apply a medium wet coat to even out the finish of the decal. Apply your decals, shoot a clear coat over everything and as long as you're careful with your engine the finish should outlast us.

Don


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Don, I do plan on trying (within reason) to use and abuse them to see what will happen....water, oil, greasy fingers, etc. Fortunately none of them will be in areas that are subject to much of that but i still want to know. If it makes a mess as you suspect then your suggestions may be helpful in prolonging their life. The base materail of the film in polyester acording to 3M.

Bill


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## Deanofid

Those look really good, Bill. Very real.


----------



## b.lindsey

One of the small tasks that had gone undone was adding the locating dowel pins to the base/oil pan to locate it relative to the bottom of the crankcase at assembly as was done on the prototype. First I continued the shallow holes that had been put in earlier all the way through the base and reamed them for a 1/8" dowel pin. ( photo 1) Then the base and crankcase were fastened together, inverted, so the hole locations could be transferred into the bottom of the crankcase as shown in photo 2 (sorry it isn't clearer). Photo 3 shows the holes in the bottom of the crankcase. With this done the dowel pins were loctite'd into the base flush with the bottom (photo 4).


----------



## b.lindsey

Finally the last photo shows the base and crankcase fitting together with the help of the locating pins. All that's needed is the gasket between them. Another minor, but necessary task out of the way now.


----------



## b.lindsey

Things have been hopping at work...not so much model work as the senior design students working on their projects. Unlike prior years, some of these guys actually show up at 7 AM to get started reather than at noon or 3 PM and then expecting me to hang here with them until 9 or 10 at night. That ain't happening!! (Note to self: Buy some Red Bull stock! I think these kids are living off the stuff!!) Anyway the B&S project, mainly the crankcase at this point has been relegated to 15-30 minutes here and there as one of the knee mills is open...but better some progress than none. Also some work has been done on the governor. The 4 pictures below show that bit of progress so far. Now I need to solder some brass tube to the bottom of the bracket and along the bottom of the vane to act as a hinge. Not sure how functional it will actually be, but it will look the part at least. 

The bracket is made from .009" brass stock. As was done on a few other parts, a paper template was glued to the brass and the central bend made by pressing it between two pieces of angle (photo 1). Once bent, the other contours were cut out with scissors, and filed or Dremel'ed to the template lines until it looked like photo 2. There is a little bit of a "U" shape on the small tab at the bottom to give it a little more strength...i hope!! The bracket will fit at the top of the plate (screw holes yet to be done) and shown in photo 3. Finally the vane was cut out the same way but out of .016 brass. and sanded to the template lines on the small belt sander.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next three pictures show some of the progress on the crankcase, mainly carving out the inside enough to get the crankshaft in. Its going to need a little more relief for the crankshaft to spin freely in the crankcase but as soon as that gets done I can press the bushing in the back side and hope like crazy everything lines up well so the crankshaft spins freely.

The good news is that Spring Break is next week so I should get some early morning time or lunchtime in on the mill.

As always, thanks for taking a look.


----------



## Deanofid

Still watching, Bill, and enjoying all of it.

Dean


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## b.lindsey

Hi Dean,
I know there hasn't been much to watch lately, but the support is still very much appreciated. More soon I promise.

Bill


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## ozzie46

I don't say much but when ever this thread comes up i"m alookin and absorbin .

 Ron


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Ron, your lookin' and interest, even if quiet is appreciated also! 

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

I managed to get a good hour or so of shop time yesterday afternoon and made further progress on getting the inside of the crankcase milled out at least enough for the crankshaft to fit and rotate inside it. Its still far from done but compared to the previoius post a good amount of chips were removed. Today will be the test to see how well things line up after the other bushing is pressed into place. Hope to have an update on that later.


----------



## b.lindsey

The trial fitting of the crankshaft into the crankcase with both sleeve bearings went as well or better than expected. There was some slight binding but some oil and attaching an old Sherline 3 jaw chuck to the pulley side of the crankshaft allowed the shaft to be turned with minimal effort by hand. After a few minutes it had already become easier to turn and I think a little more running in by hand will correct this even more. I want it to spin freely but still want what feels like a good running fit. The attachment of the piston and con rod (photo 1) didn't add any addition binding at all other than the friction of the rings in the cylinder. I do need to finish carving out the inner walls of the crankcakse though as the con rod cap hits against one of the ends. I wanted to see how things were looking though before removing too much metal that can't be added back! Photo 2 is just one of those "see how it's gonna look" shots that keep me motivated. The last photo is just from the top of the cylinder looking down at the piston. So far, so good....will get back to the crankcase on Monday. Over the rest of the weekend I am going to try and finish up the governor.


----------



## ozzie46

Looks real good Bill. What are you using to hog out the inside of the crank case? It looks pretty deep. Do they make end mills that long? 

  Ron


----------



## Deanofid

Thanks for the assembly pics, Bill. That was a LOT of metal to remove inside the crankcase, and things
are really looking good. I enjoy following this build.

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Ron and Dean. I think all of the "hogging" was done in steps using a 3/8" end mill with a 3/8" shank. As long as the deeper cuts don't exceed the outermost dimensions of the shallower cuts things are fine...the shank may rub a bit but it doesn't hurt anything. They do make long reach end mills but I didn't feel it necessary to buy one for just that purpose. I am almost getting to the point where I have to look back through the thread myself to remember how something was done, especially some of the earlier perts that i haven't touched in a while.

Bill


----------



## NickG

Bill,

Keep doing those "see how it's gonna look" shots, I do that too but there's certainly no worry with yours how it's gonna look! :bow:

Nick


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Nick...I will try to keep doing that. Its been raining here all day so it was a good day to stay out in the shop working on finishing up the governor. Photo 1 shows the 3 main pieces after the addition of the 1/8"OD x 1/16" ID tubes to both the bracket and vane. Photo 2 shows the lever arm...1/16" brass threaded 0-80 long enought to pass through the vane tube (photo3). For now the vane will be captured by 2 0-80 nuts, one on either side of the vane (see following post).


----------



## b.lindsey

These last two photos show the governor mechanism attached to the plate and in the two extreme positions of its travel. A couple of issues...one is the narrow pivot tube on the bracket. I am worried about its strength so may go back and add a small piece of brass to act as a gusset. The other is the ability of the two 0-80 hex nuts to hold the vane securely enough to keep it from rotating on the lever arm. Maybe some washers and/or semi-permanent loctite will keep that from happening, if it becomes an issue at all. The worst case would be to just silver solder the vane to the lever arm once its final position relative to the lever arm is determined from the throttle linkage, etc.

One problem is that the vane is a little wide and wants to interfere with the inside face of the shroud but that can be fixed by sanding a little off the width, just enough to provide the needed clearance.


----------



## arnoldb

More great stuff Bill :bow: - You're now really getting to the nitty gritty parts!

 ;D I always love to check in on your thread!

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold. I can see the finish line at least. There are still a few challenges ahead but for now finishing this crankcase is the biggest and last major hurdle.

Bill


----------



## BillC

Fantastic project! For some reason I thought an NC mill would be needed for this sort of project but you prove that theory wrong!! This is great work and a very enjoyable building sequence....!!!!

BillC


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Bill. 

Obviously CNC would be a nice trick on the crankcase and head both, but alas...I only work in the manual mode :big: Even better would be a casting set for this engine, but there is a certain appeal to seeing how much like the original I can make it without the advantages of either castings or CNC. If you really want to be amazed with what can be done manually, check out George's thread (gbritnell) on his transmission and the work he did carving out the housing!! 

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Got a couple of the minor issues fixed today. First the back wall of the crankcase was machined to its final nominal thickness to see if it was enough to keep the con rod from hitting against is and thankfully it was but by a very narrow margin...probaly on the order of .010-.015" but it should be enougn (shown in photo 1). Second the width of the governor vane was reduced to provide clearance with the inner wall of the shroud. Fortunately this worked out well too and its free as a bird now as shown in photos 2 and 3 and if I can get it to work the very short vid clip.

Edit: the clip file may not open by itself but is playable with Windows Media Player.  
















View attachment Governor.wmv


----------



## b.lindsey

Didn't have a whole lot of time today but did manage to drill and tap the mounting areas for both the carb/gas tank/air filter assembly, and the muffler. This is the first time I have been able to actually hang the off of the crankcase. A few more trial assembly pics follow. Hopefully more progress tomorrow.


----------



## NickG

Wow, absolutely incredible! :bow:


----------



## gbritnell

With all the pieces together like that it must be driving you nuts to get it finished. I know I can't wait to see the first pop from this engine.
Boy that thing sure looks great. 
George


----------



## Deanofid

Seeing the new assembly pics is pretty exciting, Bill. I know you have things to do yet, but it's really something to look at!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Nick, George, and Dean. I wish I had progress to report today but things at work were too budy....students working during Spring break...imagine that!!

Also had a lathe breakdown and had to track down and order the part to fix that problem. I did comandeer as mill for the day but had to actually do some other work on it...drats. Well there is always tomorrow 

Dean, there is a good bit to do yet but yes, I am getting excited myself too.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

The only thing I got done today was to drill and ream the cross hole for the axel pin for the camshaft. The location of that is critical so I wanted to get it done before losing any of the reference edges needed to locate it. This is shown in photo 1.

This evening on the Sherline I worked on making a pulley for the opposite end of the crankshaft. The procedure worked well but I think I erred in scaling it down from a "C" cross section v-belt when I should have use probably an "A" cross section. I will see how it looks with the crankcase but I think it will be a little large and out of proportion. Worst case if I remake it is I will have a useable spare. The little compounf came in handy for this. Some of the steps are also shown below.


----------



## b.lindsey

I will still broach the keyway tomorrow and then decide how it looks, but for now i'm leaning toward remaking it scaled for the smaller section v-belt.


----------



## swilliams

Having not looked in for a while, I must say how impressive the whole thing is looking. Really nice Bill

Steve


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for having a look Steve. I won't get anything done today due to other committments, but I have decided to remake the pulley and should knock that out tomorrow...then back to the crankcase on Monday.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Just a quick update on the pulleys. Both are finished and useable but looking at them both on the crankshaft in relation to the crankcase, I still think the smaller scaled down "A" cross section v-belt version looks more proportional. The hub sizes are the same but the OD's and widths of the "v" parts differ. The larger on is 1.25" OD while the smaller one is 1.00" OD. Both are shown in the photos below.

Bill


----------



## Spurry

Brilliant job, Bill. FWIW, I think the second one looks better.

Pete


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Pete, I'll just chalk the first one up to a senior moment, or judgement lapse, or practice part or something ;D. 

Bill


----------



## BillC

Bill,

Are you going to use the "vacu-jet" carburetor? With diaphram pump?

The real thing works really good - but is the normally the most common reason alone for most B&S engines to refuse to start....

This project is very interesting, cannot wait until you are ready to crank it up! :bow:

BillC


----------



## b.lindsey

Bill,
I am not sure if they were calling it the vacu-jet back then or not. It does not have a diaphram pump. It does have the manual slide choke and a straight suction tube going down from the carb into the tank with a small check valve. I remain concerned that the carb may turn out to be an issue though I patterened it as closely as possible to the original. I am planning on doing some testing here shortly to see how well it will lift fuel from the tank but for now it remains a rather huge question mark!!

Bill


----------



## BillC

Bill,

The issue was the changing volume of the fuel tank and the amount of lift (vacuum) that the crankcase vacuum could exert on the column of fuel, and then the efficiency of the check valve responsible for holding that volume of fuel. A full fuel tank was mandatory for starting. Once started all was good and there was ample increased crankcase vacuum with the crankcase check/filter system that was used. And that is where my memory goes....I know that B&S had trouble with the initial designs of the lift type (top tank) fuel delivery systems and used the Vacuu-jet with rubber flapper check valves and a diaphram lift pump to decrease the dependency on just the crankcase vacuum on starting. The diaphram and checks are a vacuum (increasing) differential membrane for the initial lifting of fuel and of course for a continued supply as the tank fuel volume dropped away from the available 'lift' vacuum of the crankcase.

B&S engines (and other small engine manufacturers) were a key element in the mechanization of the small family modern era, most especially with the average small plot land owner having the ability to turn some soil for the production of a food garden. Sometimes, the efficient give way to the popular. I have a deep love for these small engine manufacturers and their great contribution to our society. Though, seem inconsequential today where a box of milk in the grocery store cooler is its origin.

A carburetor with these small engines is usually the most trying and exasperating portion of making a successful 'scale' engine. My hope is that you will overcome this small portion and most important phase.... Best of luck (with) your skill to you, Bill

BillC


----------



## BillC

Only trying to help Bill.....don't intend to discourage at all....basically just sharing a thought and what I remember from working on small engines.

BillC


----------



## b.lindsey

Bill, I appreciate all the input I can get. I was doing some online research yesterday after your initial post and apparently these problems were pretty common. I haven't made the check valve yet but as you noted, it will need to seal well to keep the gas in the tube from seeping back down at least until the engine is running. The other good point that you made as well as seeing it elsewhere is to start with the tank full to minimize the lift reguired. That is easy enough to do. My main concern is how well the whole carb is sealed, meaning drawing air in through the air filter and past the venturi without leaks from other places. The only obvious one I am aware of is the choke slide, but it seems fairly tight thus far. The other concern is whether or not there will be enough venturi effect to actually work in a scaled down version. All questions that remain to be answered for now, but I remain hopeful that all will work as planned or can be modified to work with minimal changes. With something like 20 odd paprts to the carb, I really hope not to have to do any major mods...lol.

Bill


----------



## Rustkolector

Bill,
As you know, model engine displacement doesn't scale down from a prototype engine. As a result, the air flow of a model engine doesn't scale either. So designing a model carb using true venturi effect for fuel lift could be a real exercise. I suggest that you not worry about venturi effect, and go for an air flow restriction that will give you the needed fuel lift. Use the choke (since it is easily adjustable) as a restrictor to get it running well with the widest opening that allows the engine to run well. Then calulate the optimum choke opening area, and make a corresponding restricting orifice that you can put under the air cleaner. The choke can then be used carefully for cold starting. The same fuel draw should be available from either a properly sized venturi, or a properly sized restriction orifice. The latter is much easier. 

Jeff


----------



## b.lindsey

Jeff, good point and one that should be easy enough to check/implement using the choke first as you suggest. A restrictor under the air filter should be an easy thing to do as well. Not having worked with IC engines before, much less a scaled down version of an existing design, I am more than open to all ideas...so thanks for this one.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

A few more little steps on the crankcase. First the inside area has been pretty well hollowed out leaving a lot more clearance for things now. Photos 1 & 2 show this with the crankshaft and the axel pin for the camshaft both in place. The other task finished was to get the enclosed area where the tappets and valve stems meet milled out to final depth. Its a little hard to see (photo 3) but there is a ridge running down the center of this cavity where I still have to drill and tap for a 5-40 stud which will hold the cover on.


----------



## b.lindsey

I finally got around to making the small check valve for the bottom of the gas pick-up tube. The body is 1/4" dia brass turned down to 1/8. the through hole is .035" and the top .250" is counterdrilled to the 1/16" dia of the picl up tube. The tube was then inserted into the check valve 3/16" leaving a small gap for the check ball to work in. The ball was robbed from a ball point pen and is about .040" in dia. As noted the through bore of the check valve and the ID of the tube are both .035 so the ball should remain captured in the gap. In the third picture below I inserted a solid 1/16" rod and tapped it to try and make a seat in the bottom of the valve body.


----------



## b.lindsey

At the same time I played around with the carb some, applying some moderate suction the the outlet end with the pick up tube immersed in water. This was done with the choke both closed off and open. To my great surprise in both cases water was sucked into and through the carb with a noticable difference between the open and closed choke positions. How this will translate based on the vacuum generated by the intake stroke of the piston remains to be seen, but it still seems to be a good sign for the moment. 

Bill


----------



## BillC

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> At the same time I played around with the carb some, applying some moderate suction the the outlet end with the pick up tube immersed in water. This was done with the choke both closed off and open. To my great surprise in both cases water was sucked into and through the carb with a noticable difference between the open and closed choke positions. How this will translate based on the vacuum generated by the intake stroke of the piston remains to be seen, but it still seems to be a good sign for the moment.
> 
> Bill



That sounds very promising. Water is so much heavier than gasoline - larger molecule - so the fuel should respond much easier to the vacuum that you describe. Darn shame you couldn't find a plastic or an aluminum ball for your check ball.

When you first start your engine it will suffer from ring leak-by until the they seat. After the rings seat in, the carburetor will need to be leaned out and at that time you will know for sure that your system is a success. The most trying time with these little engines is the initial starting and adjusting to run steadily and respond correctly to the carb. I usually start a new engine on a carburetor that has known characteristics, but it's just as much fun to make her go with the 'stock' carb. Sounds like you're on the right track!

We have faith!

BillC


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for the vote of confidence Bill. Since the suction was being applied by yours truly, I hesitated to try it with gas :big:

I did try blowing and sucking on the check valve end of the pick up tube with again, a noticable difference in air flow. I'm not sure it seals perfectly but it is providing some checking action. Now i'm not even sure it will be needed but it looks more original and I don't see that it can hurt anything and may help. Geeze that ball is small too...took me three pens to hang on to this one and I about lost it a couple of times today.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

A resourceful way to salvage a tiny ball, Bill. That's got to be one of the smallest shop made
check valves I've seen made here. 

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Hey Dean, as I recall it was Marv that suggested that so I credit him with the idea. Anyone have a clus as to what they are made of? If it happens to be stainless then eventual rusting or corrosion wouldn't be a problem. After the water test maybe I should put a drop of oil in it just as a precaution.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

This morning I wanted to check how the con rod and crankshaft were fitting into the now hollowed out case, especially now that the camshaft axle is in place. There was MAJOR interference between the axel and con rod cap and the camshaft would only add to it once installed. So with some major head-scratching and wondering how I could be THAT far off, i took the restored 6S off its base, turned it over and in one of those ah-ha (how stupid can you be) moments, found out that I have had the piston and con rod backwards in previoius fit-ups and in my head as well. The first picture below is one i previously posted showing the wrong orientation. The second one taken today shows the correct orientation. The conrod cap does clear the axel now as shown in the third photo, but just barely. A little milling off on that side of the conrod opposite the oil splash finger should take care of that even with the added diameter of the camshaft. Even in the original engine this is a very close fit. The other thing I noticed was the reason for the flat releived area just on one side of the conrod on the crank end (on the upper right in picture 4). As it turns out that flat provides just enough clearance for the intake cam lobe as it rotates into the path of the con rod every other revolution. Fortunately it had been modeled true to the original, but I am only now realizing why. 

That being said, I will accept my dumb spell knowing that the fits are still ok with the one minor modification noted, and with an even greater respect for the B&S engineers who designed this visually "simple" engine with all its hidden complexities in the days when drafting boards and pen and ink ruled and when CAD referred only to someone with less than gentlemanly tendencies.


----------



## Deanofid

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> and with an even greater respect for the B&S engineers who designed this visually "simple" engine with all its hidden complexities in the days when drafting boards and pen and ink ruled and when CAD referred only to someone with less than gentlemanly tendencies.



Even more amazing, the same kind of fellows designed things like the P51 Mustang using the same pen and ink, and they did it in a matter of months.

Glad you got your unforeseen problem figured out, Bill!


----------



## walnotr

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Even more amazing, the same kind of fellows designed things like the P51 Mustang using the same pen and ink, and they did it in a matter of months.
> 
> Glad you got your unforeseen problem figured out, Bill!



Not to mention the P-38! It just goes to show that throwing enough well organized engineers at a problem can get it solved pretty quickly. Ditto the moon shots.

Steve C.


----------



## b.lindsey

I apologizr for the lack of recent progress. As I have noted before this is just a busy time of year at the school...lots of rapid prototyping jobs, work in the machine shop, and so forth for all the projects going on. Its fun to watch, with only 5 weeks to go until all the senior projects are due to be finished, many of the groups are at that "oh $hi*" moment. All the components they have ordered have arrived with the greatest expectation that things will fit together perfectly and then oops ???, it looked good on paper but the reality is another story. That's what learning is all about though. Anyway, i found a few minutes today to remove a few chips of alumiunum from the crankcase. The first two are of the front of the engine. The gap is where the case necks down above the main case and below where the fins begin. The third picture is the back side, i needed to outline the tappet/valve stem cage so I can work on the cover over the weekend. I hope to have some more progress to report tomorrow or Friday. It seems to come in spurts.


----------



## BillC

Oh yes, the fins. That is going to look cool.... :bow:

BillC


----------



## b.lindsey

It should look something like this from the back side 

View attachment BS6S Crankcase3 (1).pdf


----------



## kustomkb

Awesome work Bill! It's coming together beautifully.


----------



## b.lindsey

Things are still crazy busy at work with the end of the semester only two weeks away so progress for me has been slow, but I did manage to knock out the little valve cavity cover which will fit onto the back of the crankcase. Its an odd shaped piece and the original was obviously stamped whereas mine had to be fabricated. Its not especially critical and some of the contours and bends may have to be adjusted slightly at assembly but all in all its a reasonable facsimile of the original I think. This was try number two by the way as I wasn't at all happy with the first attempt. The pictures should be pretty self explanatory I think. After milling out the basic shape from 1/8" aluminum sheet the angled surfaces were milled with the help of the Sherline angle plate and vise as shown in photo 1. Photo 2 shows the mounting hole (center) and the smaller hole (left) for any crankcase pressure to escape to the outside via the breather which will be inside the valve cavity. There is a small bent tab along the top edge so a dremel cut off wheel was used to slit that area (photo3) and the vise used to bend the tab back (photo 4).


----------



## b.lindsey

The small exit hood which again was stamped on the original part as can be seen in the last photo had to be fabricated from a small round of aluminum, bored out and then cut at the same angle as the face of the cover (photo 1). This took some sanding/filing to bring it down to a proper sized "fingernail" as shown in photo 2 sitting atop an M&M. Finally I attached it to the cover with some JB weld and will leave it to sit overnight to cure. Then I will bead blast the whole thing again. The last photo shows the model part next to the full size stamping. If not exact, it is close enough I think both from a cosmetic and functional standpoint.


----------



## Deanofid

Looks pretty darn close to me, Bill. When you round the corners an little and with the bead blasting,
it should measure up just fine. 
I can see quite a bit of time in that little thing!

Dean


----------



## metalmad

How nice is that 
Pete


----------



## b.lindsey

Good point Dean. The corners will be rounded though when I fit it up finally. The raised lip around the valve cavity will need to be rounded also but they will need to be done together to match up. A little careful filing should take care of that detail. Thanks to you and Pete both for checking in.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

After curing overnight, the JB Weld seems to have provided a good bond so here are just a few follow up pics of the finished cover (less corner rounding). It does show some of the odd angles and curves though as this is more than just a 2 dimensional cover and for some reason (more likely a mental block on my part), it gave me fits trying to draw it in a front/top/side view format.


----------



## joe d

Bill

I'm running out of superlatives when I look at your work on this.
Very much enjoying following along!

Joe


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Joe...I just appreciate your following along. On the other hand, I am sometime at a loss for @$&%* words while doing it, especially when I have a senior moment...lol!!

Bill


----------



## arnoldb

Bill, ;D :bow: Thm:

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

A couple of little bits done today as well as some CAD work on the crankcase breather parts. Not a lot but made the stud and nut for the valve cover as shown below. The last picture shows where the cover will fit although until I get more of the top of the crankcase machined it won't fit flush yet. Happy Easter everyone... hope the Easter Bunny finds your shop ;D


----------



## b.lindsey

Things are still going slowly as our seniors are all going full tilt to complete their senior design projects by next Friday for the big EXPO here on campus. After that its exam week and then the Summer so things won't be quite so hectic. In the meantime I have finished the three little pieces needed for the crankcase breather...the spring, body and seal. The body was turned from a small piece of bronze i had (photo 1) and the 3/16" nipple was then cut leaving two fingers which will extend into the hole between the valve chamber and the inside of the crankcase. These appear to be just to keep it aligned over the hole. The three parts are shown in photo 2. The upper end of the spring rests against the lower side of the threaded stud which secures the valve chamber cover on. Photo 3 shows the parts next to the original and photo 4 showns the assembly next to its big sister. I had thought about using gasket material for the seal (the black part in the pictures), but then found a piece of delrin that I used instead. If it ends up getting too hot and sticking or melting, the I can come back and replace it later...maybe by then I can get a little shim stock punch set I have been looking at for a while when it goes on sale next. Thats it for the moment, though I have gotten the 1/8" face width slotting saw needed for making the fins.


----------



## BillC

The M&M adds flavor.... Remember the old days when a set of points had a little capsule with them? I always thought it was pretty nice of those folks to include a pill to calm you nerves while you were replacing your points..... :big: I wonder if anyone really did that?

You're doing some grand stuff here Bill! It's a pretty little engine too. It's ideal too being air cooled with the B&S cooling fan. This is a little jewel.

BillC


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Bill. Well in this case, the little orange pill met with a quick demise after i took the pictures, not for nerves, just pure enjoyment :big:

Thanks for checking in.

Bill


----------



## Chaffe

Absolutly amazing, watching every step of this. cant wait to see it run!


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Chaffe. Today in a little spare time, I cut out, drilled and bent the Oil Splash Shield that fits just inside the valve cavity under the cover. I am assuming its purpose is to let any excess crankcase pressure out via the small vent in the cover, without letting out any oil that may accumulate in the cavity. Nothing much to show in making it but a couple of pics are included, one next to the full size one and one where it will fit on the crankcase. I had hoped to make it out of some blue tempered spring steel shim stock (.010" thick) but didn't have any handy and wasn't going to pay 8 or 14 dollars for a small piece plus shipping when i only needed a small bit. Opted for some .009" brass shin stock I had on hand.


----------



## the engineer

in the time i have been watching this thread i have been amazed and thrilled to see this little gem evolving many thanks
 i have built the three horse version of the later engine(1970  1980) into parallel and 180degree twins
my loving wife un beknowing to me sent a photo to the briggs motorsport depot and later on she presented me with a signed letter from mr fred stratton himself of which i prize dearly
i suggest that you should do the same your work is so impressive i am sure they would respond also
once again many thanks cant wait to see more
regards john


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks John. I do plan on contacting them once it is up and running if only to make sure there would be no problem in offering the plans for the model since it obviously bears their name and hopefully a striking resemblance to their engine as well. I can well imagine that the letter from Mr. Stratton is certainly one ofo your prized posessions!!! Have you posted pictures of your "twins" previously? Would love to see them.

Regards,
Bill


----------



## steamer

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> Thanks Fred. I do plan on contacting them once it is up and running if only to make sure there would be no problem in offering the plans for the model since it obviously bears their name and hopefully a striking resemblance to their engine as well. I can well imagine that the letter from Mr. Stratton is certainly one ofo your prized posessions!!! Have you posted pictures of your "twins" previously? Would love to see them.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill




I very much doubt that B&S would find issue Bill.  It would never compete with their product, and If I were them would welcome the free publicity from the model itself.  It WILL get looked at! ;D

More like have them pay you ....like a sponsership on the side of a race car.

Dave


----------



## the engineer

yes i hope if i have done this right this will show the link
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8353.msg88859#msg88859


----------



## b.lindsey

John, I apologize for getting you name wrong in the previous post, no idea where I got Fred from...senior moment i suppose. Anyway I corrected it. That is some nice work on those twins and the link worked fine. Thanks for sharing the photos!!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Back to work on the crankcase now that students are done with the semester. The first thing I wanted to do was to work on the side opposite the flywheel to do all the relief work leaving the raised areas and reinforcing webs remaining. Got a start on that today as shown in the photo's below. I will post more as things begin coming into focus from the remaining excess auimunum.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

A little more carving out on the crankcase mainly to get rid of some larger amounts of material to make the subsequent rotary table work a bit easier for a smaller endmill. Both some additional rotary table work and setting up some angles will be needed to rully define the round bolsters and webs. More to follow later.

Bill


----------



## BillC

You have nerves of steel!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Bill...I ain't kil't it yet at least, but that's why I wanted to wait until I had some uninterrupted time to do most of this more detailed work. It's certainly not up to gbritnel's standards but its coming along and I think will smooth out rather nicely once done. A few more pictures of this afternoon's work follow. Some of the reinforcing webs still look rough because I have so far only machined up close. The only one that is finished is the one running from the crankshaft bushing up to the lever start stud bolster in the upper right. More tomorrow.


----------



## arnoldb

:bow: :bow: Awesome job Bill ! ;D

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## Deanofid

You must have a nicely sized pile of chips from all that, Bill. It's looking good!


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold and Dean. There was a decent pile of chips but the crankcase looks larger in the pics than it is. This is the part I was not looking forward to but am pleased so far...too many intersecting radii, fillets, etc. I hope to finish up this face tomorrow, then on to some straight line milling on the other sides, in preparation for the non-symmetric shaped top of the case where the fins will be cut. Thanks for checking in.

Bill


----------



## JakeHalstrom

Great Briggs engine restoration projects going on there. On the subject of blocks here is a Briggs model NP block I have: https://sites.google.com/site/briggsnpblock/


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Bill,
You know there's an engine lurking under all that aluminum. You just have to plot your course and keep chipping away at it. Before you know it it will pop out of there. 
Great work on all the parts. 
George


----------



## steamer

No rush and no worries Bill.  One step at a time.

Looking great!

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks George and Dave. My goal is to have the block finished by the end of next week. With each chip that comes off though it is begining to look more and more like the original which is good at least.

Jake, that NP block is similar in so many ways...only the pulley shafe side differs substantially. It seems B&S made fairly gradual changes in the evolution of this basic design. That one you have pictured looks to be in like new condition.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Got a little more done today still on the same side. Smoothed out some of the webs to the proper thickness and milled up towards the head just to the point where the fins will stop. More tomorrow I hope.


----------



## kustomkb

Some pretty nice sculpting there Bill.

Keep it up!


----------



## b.lindsey

This weekwnd I made the valve cagesfrom a couple of 4" long pieces of oilite bearing bronze I have had for at least 10 years. Don't even remember now why I bought it, but this seemed a good use for it. Not much to describe as to the fabrication but there are some pictures below as well as of the finished parts assembled with the valves, springs and keepers. There is enough movement in the intake assembly but the exhaust side may need some minor spring adjustment (shortening) to be sure it has the needed 1/16" of travel without bottoming out the spring with some safety factor.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next two are of the vavle seat area and the two completed assemblies.


----------



## b.lindsey

Despite attending a 3 day seminar last week I did manage to get a little done on the crankcase on the flywheel side again. The more I get done the more nerve wracking it is so I spent some of the weekend looking at the drawings and double or triple checking dimentions. The strategy now is to work on one specific area each day...whatever I can get done during lunch or before the day starts. Had hoped to get it complete last week but it wasn't to be.


----------



## steamer

One step at a time Bill!  There's no need to rush here...

Dave


----------



## ShedBoy

Absolutely stunning crancase so far. I still get nervous doing real basic jobs. That is mint


----------



## rklopp

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> This weekwnd I made the valve cagesfrom a couple of 4" long pieces of oilite bearing bronze I have had for at least 10 years.


I think of oilite bronze as the porous oil-filled stuff. Is that what you used? Just askin'


----------



## Chaffe

rklopp  said:
			
		

> I think of oilite bronze as the porous oil-filled stuff. Is that what you used? Just askin'


thats right, ive used it for bushes before, it is wet with oil when you machine it, especially if it gets warm!, im guessing there are various grades though? not sure how this will affect the seal on the valve seat though? Great stuff thus far though, im am watching with great pleasure.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks to all for the comments. Yes it is the oil filled bronze, basically oilite bushing stock and when it gets warm it does indeed "sweat" some oil. That was the main reason I used it, because the lower portion that the valve stems ride in get little lubrication otherwise. I am doubting it will affect the valve seal very much. On the intake side the gas air mixture should disolve it and burn it off in the cylinder. On the exhaust side I can't imagine the minute amount of oil causing a problem beyond the normal residue contained in the exhaust gasses. Time will tell though. The wall is so thin up there that there can't be that much oil to weep out ...or at least that is my thinking.

Bill


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Bill,
Having never used sintered bronze bearing material for valve cages I'm certainly not one to qualify it but I have used and machined the material over the years. My question is given the manufacturing process of sintering, small particles fused together with air spaces between, I just wonder how the valve seat area will seal and hold up both initially and over a period of time. I would have thought that a bearing bronze like 
SAE 660 would be more than adequate. Just my 2 cents worth.
gbritnell


----------



## b.lindsey

Hey George, you may well be right. I have some bearing bronze too so I may try making one out of that and then compare the valve seat area to the oilite.My concer was focused more on the valve stem wear but as you and others have pointed out in numerous threads, the valve seat is the more critical area and if that doesn't work the wear is a moot point anyway 

At least those pieces of "oilite" won't be sitting there tempting me anymore...lol

Regards,
Bill


----------



## rklopp

I have found oilite to be quite abrasive when machined. I think it is due to copper-tin intermetallic particles formed during sintering. I made my Upshur twin valve cages from silicon bronze, which is way harder than oilite or SAE 660 bearing bronze.


----------



## Chaffe

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> At least those pieces of "oilite" won't be sitting there tempting me anymore...lol
> 
> Regards,
> Bill


exactly, get them used up!


----------



## b.lindsey

Progress has still been slow in the last week or so getting ready for some rather major renovations to the lab areas at work which has required packing up and emptying out some 6 rooms. Not fun but necessary. On the plus side new equipment has started to come in, 2 mills and one lath so far. Hoping to get two more mills by mid month which will finish out the machine shop lab with 6 mills and 3 13x40 lathes, in addition to the surface grinder, mig and tig welders, and other assorted sheet metal gear. 

The back side of the crankcase is all but finished with the exception of putting the angles on the three reinforcing webs. I am headed out of town today until sunday, but come monday work will commence on the head portion of the crankcase, giving it that triangular shape along the back edge, and then cutting the fins and boring out for the valve cages and mounting holes for the cylinder head. Sounds like a lot but the set-ups will be similar for both shaping and cutting the fins. A couple of pictures follow. At least it is beginning to look more and more like the original and the upcoming work on th eupper portion should amplify that even more.

I did order and have received a piece of SAE660 bronze for remaking the valve cages which will also be done as soon as i return.


----------



## arnoldb

:bow: Looks great Bill ;D

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## steamer

Looking Great Bill!

I would advise against using Oilite for valve cages. I used it once in a feed pump bushing. What I found was that due to the porosity, it was ...well....POROUS!....water pumped right through it with a 1/16" was section. I would imagine air would move even easier.

The 660 bronze was the better choice ......I think anyway.


Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Yet a little more progress on the crankcase, in this installment the reinforcing ribs have been angled and smoothed out and that side of the crankcase has been lightly bead blasted to remove the layout dye and to begin removing some of the machining marks. The balance of this work will wait until the top section and fins are cut in order to give the whole part more of a casting look. I knew this was going to be a bugger when I started and it hasn't disappointed, but amazingly enough I still haven't killed it yet and its looking more and more like the original as well. Here are a few pictures from this latest progress.


----------



## Deanofid

Sure looks the part, Bill. Hope you get some more time in the shop. I'm waiting to see the fins done here, and that's going to completely change things appearance-wise. 

Dean


----------



## metalmad

looks fantastic :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Metal.  Shop time (read work duties) has been the problem still but easing off somewhat. Not all bad though...yesterday a colleauge and I traveled over to western NC to visit one of the GE Aviation plants where all of the compressor and turbine stage discs are made for their entire line of commercial jet engines. Row after row of vertical CNC lathes...CMM and manual inspection stations...two broaching lines where the dovetails are broached into the discs for holding the actual blades in place. A CNC deburring/chamfering machine after the broaching is done. And all of this is done in solid titanium for the compressor discs or Inconel and other high temp materials for the hot end turbine discs. Scraping a 50 pound chunk of titanium for an out of spec disc would tend to get costly...fortunately it doesn't happen often. The only aluminum I saw was for making the nose cone at the very front of the engines, where they paint the spiral do-dad that you can see as a jet comes in to he ramp and the engines spin down. Needless to say, they look MUCH bigger being turned than they do looking out the gate window at the airport !


----------



## steamer

Bill 

That is looking positively awesome....and though walking through the GE plant is cool, I'm ever more content watching the progress on this little honey.....great job and keep it coming! ;D

Dave


----------



## Noitoen

The engine has been hiding in that chunk of metal all the time. The trick is to just remove the excess metal :big: and what a great job you're doing


----------



## cfellows

Dang, Bill, you're really doing a nice job on that cankcase. Can't for the life of me see how you managed to whittle that jewell out of that chunk of aluminum.

Chuck


----------



## b.lindsey

In carving out the top of the crankcase the center of the radius is offset by 1/16" from the center of the cylinder bore. In order to locate this closely I made a plug for the bore and used a center drill to mark this offset location. While still in the same orientation on the mill, I machined a flat along the opposite side which was used to orient the plug correctly. This is shown in photo 1 using a square to orient the flat perpendicular to the still square front of the crankcase. The plug was then taped to keep it from rotating. Photo 2 shows the crankcase on the rotary table which had been centered with the spindle. The center drill was then used to locate the case the required 1/16" to the left while keeping the right edge as parallel to the "y" axis as possible. Once the crankcase was clamped down a dial indicator (not shown was used to adjust the RT until the right edge was perfectly parallel to the "y" table axis, then resetting the RT witness mark to the nearest degree which happened to be 1 degree. From then on it was just a matter of removing metal to the desired radius. Photo 3 shows the end of this process.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next three photos are just from various angles once the machining was done.


----------



## steamer

Man that's looking sweet!

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

The final three shots are after removing the crankcase from the RT and shown with the cylinder head in place. Finally its starting to look even more like its big sister!! Tomorrow I will cut the spaces between the fins and finish rounding the area around the lower cylinder (beneath the fins). All of that work will be located from the center of the bore making set-up a little easier.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for looking in Dave, I know its been a while since I posted any progress, not from lack of interest, just that pesky little thing called work!! :big:

Bill


----------



## metalmad

Hi Bill
I love your work :bow: :bow:
Pete


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Pete, I hope to have more to show later today.

Bill


----------



## Lesmo

Hi Bill

Was saying earlier to Larry (American LaFrance steam fire pumper)

(That is the problem with this forum, there are so many distractions, (although I hesitate to call interesting projects a problem) its a wonder anyone gets anything done) 

I lost over 2 hours this morning catching up with his build from the start (impressive), then had a little shop time. Came in for a quick sandwich and cuppa, opened the laptop and clicked on your project, which even flicking through quickly, I picked up a good tip from one of your pictures. This evening I will make a start at page one, as I am very impressed with what little I have seen so far.

I must discipline myself not to login to HMEM during the day otherwise my small project may not be complete until the Christmas turkey has been eaten  ;D

Cheers Les   :bow:


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for having a look Les. Just out of curiosity, what was the tip you picked up?

I usually keep HMEM open on a browser tab and check in when I have a few minutes...even then, I agree, it is hard to keep up with everything...so many great builds going on here!!!

Regards,
Bill


----------



## Lesmo

It was your use of clamping blocks, img 0604 on page 46. I have not had cause to use the any but the small end of the range, and have not seen that combination used before. It is now tucked away for future use. 

You can guarantee there are many other tips I will pick up as I progress through your build as I have only just scratched the surface yet.

Cheers Les


----------



## b.lindsey

I had a good chunk of time during the day so I could concentrate on cutting the fins or rather the spaces between them. Each of the 6 spaces has a straight cit along each side and a round cut around the nose of the crankcase. The mill was set on the lowest pulley speed and in low range so the rpm for the 1/8" wide x 2" dia. slotting saw was 80. I wasn't sure how much cut to take each pass so started at around .030 but by the last groove .050 worked fine and sped things up a bit. A few pictures follow.


----------



## b.lindsey

I started rounding the area under the bottom fin around the nose of the crankcase but ran into a clearance issue so will have to complete that after the 4th with a larger dia saw. The last two photos show the crankcase alongside the full size one. There is still some delicate milling to do on the back side where the carb and muffler attach as well as drilling for the head bolts and valve guides, bet even so the family resemblance is beginning to show now I think. Thanks for having a look.


----------



## GailInNM

Bill,
It just keeps getting better and better. Amazing workmanship.  Thm: Thm:
Gail in NM


----------



## ozzie46

Remarkable, absolutely remarkable!!  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


  Ron


----------



## b.lindsey

Gail and Ron...thanks to both of you for the kind words.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

Like Gail says, better and better! Looks fantastic, Bill. 
Not only a great build thread, but a lot of good instruction for the guys reading it.
Still watching. In it for the long haul, for sure! : )

Dean


----------



## arnoldb

Looks GREAT Bill :bow: :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## zeeprogrammer

I'm happy to catch up on this project (and I know there are many others to catch up on too)

I'm thinking it would be great to have a pic of 'these are all the parts so far'.

It would be amazing.


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dean and Arnold for your ongoing support of this project. Zee...I was thinking just this morinng that it has been a long time since I have seen you. I know work has been keeping you busy but thanks for checking in. I will see what I can do about taking a new "family" portrait. Good to have you back...you have been missed!!

Bill


----------



## Chaffe

That is looking ace! Are you going to attemp to machine the detail around the valve stem? that would prove very testing indeed!


----------



## b.lindsey

Chaffe, I am assuming that you are referring to the areas where the muffler and carb attach to the back side. I am planning to replocate that detail as well as removing more metal under the carb mount area and shortening the fins on the flywheel side as shown in the last picture posted. Some of this relief is needed so other parts can fit.

Bill


----------



## Chaffe

yes, exactly that, you have some pateince!


----------



## b.lindsey

Chaffe, I will try to work on that detail tomorrow, didn.t have a lot of time today but did at least get the lower fin on the pulley side cut off, angled and pretty well blended into the web that angles up to it. See the pictures below.


----------



## steamer

Take your time....DON'T RUSH NOW!

This is the point when parts get trashed.......knock on wood

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Perish the thought Dave!! I don.t even want to think about that scenario. The old adage about measuring twice and cutting once has now morphed into measure two dozen times and cut slowly and carefully and in very small steps...lol. 

Thanks for checking in.

Bill


----------



## rake60

Amazing progress Bill! 

From day 1 of this build I was wondering how you could possibly cut the fins.

When the original engines were made, the Briggs engineers had to make a mold to 
pour those odd shapes. They were working with wax that could be melted off for
a re-try if things didn't go quite to plan.

I'll say it again, AMAZING!  :bow:

Rick


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Rick, as you know the original fins were tapered slightly. I didn't go quite that far...as I'm sure they did that in the patterns for some draft. I think though that once I round the outer edges of the fins slightly they will look very close to the cast original.  As I have said before, with each step, I have more and more respect for the B&S engineers back in the 40's and 50's !!!

Bill


----------



## cfellows

Looking great, Bill! I admire your patience and attention to detail. Next maybe you could build a 2X model??

Chuck


----------



## b.lindsey

Well Chuck...2X would put it back to the original size...so I think I will just let the restored 6S from which this one was modeled suffice for that. Maybe some other versions of Briggs engines though at half scale. I am certainly not a Briggs expert like Rick and others, but it seems that a lot of the components didn't change too drastically...more the blocks, carbs, air filter shapes, etc. so it wouldn't be nearly as daunting I don't think as starting from scratch. Then too, I already have a couple of projects I am anxious to get on to once this one is finished.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Over the course of Friday and this weekend I managed to round the area under the fins on the front of the crankcase (except for the remaining ledge as shown in the first photo. That is going to require setting the rotary table upright and finishing it off with a ball nose end mill (hopefully tomorrow). The other thing was the raised mounting areas for both the carb and muffler. The results are shown in the next three photos. Overall this came out ok and as shown will be largely hidden by the carb and muffler anyway. Even so they are there as true to the original as practical.


----------



## steamer

Looking great Bill!

You keep whittling...I'll keep watching! ;D

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Really, really, really nice!!


----------



## gbritnell

Exquisite!!!!! Thm:


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Dave, Steve, and George. Still plugging away but making progress. The other issue has been trying to draw and dimension the crankcase to the point where the drawings are useable without looking too "busy." That seems to take as much time or more than the actual machining. Thank you all for having a look and congratulations to each of you for your ongoing or recently completed (George) projects. They have all been an inspiration to me!!

Bill


----------



## arnoldb

:bow: :bow: Really nice work Bill...

Kind regards, Arnold
(At a loss for new adjectives to use )


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold, just the fact that you and others look in is very gratifying...so thanks for that.

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

A couple more small things checked off the list...the gasket for the carb mount (photo 1), rounding the fins on the pulley side of the crankcase (photoo 2), and shortening the fins on the flywheel side of the crankcase (photos 3 & 4). Tomorrow I want to get the cylinder head mounting bolt holes drilled in the top of the crankcase.


----------



## kustomkb

Man, is that ever nice! 

Beautiful work Bill.


----------



## Deanofid

Awright, fess up, Bill. You actually work the night shift at Briggs & Stratton, right?  ;D
 Thm:


----------



## metalmad

just gets better and better Bill :bow: :bow:
Pete


----------



## b.lindsey

Kevin and Pete thanks for the nice words....much appreciated.
Dean...if that were true and at the pace I am going, B & S would have been broke years ago  :big: But Rome wasn't built in a day...or so someone said long ago...lol

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Today I carefully lined up the head on the cylinder and sort of locked it in place with some tape long enough to transfer the 6 hole locations to the top of the crankcase (photo 1). Then after drilling and tapping I was pleasantly surprised at how well the holes lined up. Nothing much to show really. Photos 2 & 3 just show two views of the head bolted to the crankcase. Another check mark ticked off and on to some more stock removal in the area of the carb mount.

Photo 2 makes it look like the sides of the fins are all chewed up. What is actually showing are the machine marks on the top of the fins from the slotting saw and the way the lighting hits them.


----------



## Deanofid

A compression test is not far off now! Exciting.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

That just looks so good (as in excellent).


----------



## b.lindsey

Dean...there are a few more details before that happens but its definitaly closer thanit was.

Zee...I haven't forgotten about taking a new family pic of all the parts so far. Maybe I will get to that tomorrow.

Bill


----------



## the engineer

i never get tired of checking the progress that will be one sweet little engine


----------



## kvom

the engineer  said:
			
		

> i never get tired of checking the progress that will be one sweet little engine



me 2 :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

kvom  said:
			
		

> me 2 :bow:



me 3


----------



## b.lindsey

engineer, kvom and steve...thanks to you all for taking a look. The weekend was rather busy with my granddaughter's first birthday and taking care of that pesky green stuff which surrounds the house, but should get back to a few more details today. There is some additional work on the top of the crankcase that needs to be done to more closely resemble the original and I pondered that some this weekend and then had to transfer those thoughts to the drawing. Hopefully though there will be some pictures this afternoon.

Thanks again for your interest in this project!!

Bill


----------



## b.lindsey

Some more detail work was accomplished on the head this week. The pictures should be pretty self explabatory i think, and it more closely resembles the actual cylinder to crankcase contact area of the original.


----------



## steamer

In the immortal words of Randy Savage.....OOOOOOOOOOH YEAAAAAA!

 ;D


----------



## arnoldb

Just keeps on looking better Bill :bow: :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks steamer and Arnold. A weel or more back Zee had asked for a new "family" shot of all the parts which are shown below. Actually this represents virtually all of the components and/or sub-assemblies so its mostly a matter now of finishing up the crankcase and moving on to final fitting and assembly.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Beautiful. Thanks for the shot. That is awesome work and it's always good to see everything at a glance that goes into it.


----------



## mu38&Bg#

That looks great!


----------



## ozzie46

Beautiful!! :bow: :bow:

 Can almost hear it run. 

 Ron


----------



## t.l.a.r. eng

Looks awsome! 

Like the scale starting handle and cord, nice touch!

What are you going to use for ignition?


----------



## Deanofid

Ahhh, I remember the day when there was only one part to show us! What an accomplishment.


----------



## steamer

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Ahhh, I remember the day when there was only one part to show us! What an accomplishment.



Isn't it!
 :bow: :bow:


Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks guys...more than anything I admire your patience for hanging in there with me over what has been a loooong time i know. As to the scale starting handle and cord...the length of the cord will have to be reduced at some point as its obviously way to long now. Guess that may depend on how easily it starts though or if that is even the best way to start it. 

The ignition system will be the one from S/S Machine & Engineering. The box on the wooden base will house the electronics, batteries, etc. and the hall sensor and magnet will be mounted on the plate and back of the flywheel respectively. Will likely order that this week so its headed this way.

Bill


----------



## kvom

If you finish by 9/6 you'll beat the 2 year barrier; can't wait to see the video of it running.


----------



## ChooChooMike

WOW !! Feels like I just started watching your build a few weeks ago ! It's been 1-1/2 years in the making :bow: :bow:


----------



## NickG

Bill,

I've been a bit quiet lately but just thought I'd chime in with another wow, every component it just so good, when you start the final build it will be just like assembling a real engine if you know what I mean - model ones are usually simplified to some degree but it's amazing to see such a good replica being built.

This is actually one of the few topics I'm watching now on HMEM, it takes up too much time and never have time to do anything of my own! So to you and everyone else that takes the time to do the write ups well done, it's not as trivial as some may think, it takes time.

Can't wait to see and hear it running!

 :bow:


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks guys! Yes its been a long time i know...not that the build if that complex, just too many things seem to get in the way at times, not that they are all bad of course. But it is getting closer I promise. The support here has been invaluable and I am thankful for all that have followed along and posted comment, suggestons and questions.

More to follow soon.

Bill


----------



## kcraig51

WOW! I can't believe it. I haven't checked your progress in awhile. Man that looks awesome! This may have been covered in an earlier post, but how are you going to install the magnets in the flywheel so it will be timed? What about the coil? Are you planning on making one?


----------



## b.lindsey

Craig, I will be using a CDI system with a hall effect sensor rather than the original magneto system. Am on vacation this week so more progress will be posted next week.


----------



## Chaffe

Any updates on this one?


----------



## b.lindsey

Chaffe,
Wish I had more to report...since returning from vacation things at work have had to take precedence unfortunately. The lab renovations which were to be finished by Aug 15 and now looking more like Sept 19 or later. Meanwhile school is back in full session for the last two weeks as well. Will be getting some smallet things done over the long weekend but still have a couple of things to finish up on the crankcase before assembly can begin. The project is very much alive and well, and I thank you for asking.

Bill


----------



## Deanofid

We're still hanging in with you, Bill!


----------



## the engineer

any news on this member and the build


----------



## b.lindsey

With apologies to those of you that have been following the build. As previously reported work and other duties have been consuming virtually all my time of late but the good news is that the light at the end of the tunnel is visible again, renovations are complete and most things are back finally in their old or newly renovated places, including the four new mills and one additional 13x40 lathe in the schools machine shop and it really looks good. I have not been posting much but have been trying to keep up with numerous threads as time permits. The little Briggs is inching its way back to the front burner again as this busy semester comes to a close. My duties next semester will focus more on the prototyping phases of many senior design projects which bodes well for much additional shop time both in supervising their shop time and setting aside some for myself as well. The project is still very much alive and well and the final push to completion is nearly at hand. Thanks to all of you that have checked and I hope you will bear with me.

Regards,
Bill


----------



## the engineer

yay good to hear all is well 
regards john


----------



## b.lindsey

Finally some time to get back on this and begin the push to the end. The pictures below show the drilling and reaming for the valve cages (photos 1 & 2) and below that the coaxial holes for the tappet guides (photo 3). Photo 4 shows connecting the bores of the inlet and exhaust ports to the holes where the valve cages will be.


----------



## b.lindsey

Following that in the next two photos, an undercut had to be machined into the outer wall of one crankcase end to provide clearance for the bolt head. Though not shown this was also done on the full size engine crankcase casting for the same reason. Finally for today, the last picture shows the crankcase breather assembly in place after a hole was located and drilled from the underside of the crankcase cavity. Now If I can just stop losing that pesky little spring!!


----------



## ShedBoy

Looking forward to seeing this one run. Outstanding work as usual :bow: :bow:
Brock


----------



## krv3000

its getting their


----------



## stevehuckss396

I'm glad your still at it. I really like looking in on this thread.


----------



## Deanofid

Still with you, Bill. Always good to see this one pop up.


----------



## steamer

Ditto!

Dave


----------



## the engineer

big smile to see this thread working again


----------



## arnoldb

;D Good going Bill!

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## b.lindsey

One of the last major and worrysome tasks on the crankcase is done now and that was carving our the inside area where the camshaft and gear fit. This was pretty inaccessible and largely at a right angle to the bottom opening. And the last thing I wanted to do was break through somewhere especially at this point. Anyway, with a LOT of Dremel work trial fits it got done and just need a bit of polishing up to smooth things out some. Getting closer now!!


----------



## b.lindsey

I think the last item on the crankcase has been done now and that was to finish rounding and blending in the radiused contours from each side of the lower cylunder arounf to the front. That setup is shown in photo 1 below and the results in photo 2. After that all of the machined surfaces I didn't want to be bead blased were masked off as shown in photos 3 & 4 and then a thorough bead blasting of the rest of the outer crankcase. Its not perfect by any means but from a foot or more away most of the minor imperfections tend to disappear.


----------



## b.lindsey

After bead blasting the finished (I hope) crankcase appears as shown in the following four photos. Then a good dunking in some mineral spirits to brush off any residual fine blast media and it should be about ready to start assembly.


----------



## ShedBoy

:bow: :bow: :bow:
That looks great to me. I pulled apart a 30? year old full size version of this engine and was amazed to see that the crank and cam had no bearings or bushes, just ran in aluminium. No wear at all just a severely scored bored and piston. I wonder what type of alloy they used? I do know it is going in the furnace one day.

Brock


----------



## stevehuckss396

Just want to say what a great job you did on the block. Looks real good!


----------



## Deanofid

That looks fantastic, Bill. Extra good!!


----------



## metalmad

Ive never seen a brigs look this good :big:
Top Job Pete


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Shed, Steve, Dean and Pete. There are a few belmiishes here and there but most will be covered up by other things...carb, gas tank, shroud, etc. Mostly now its a matter of finishing up on a few things...like drilling holes through the piston and oil ring, adding a linkage piece to the carb butterfly valve, and then making sure thing just fit with clearance to run. I noticed yesterday that the connecting rod wasn't clearing the center of the camshaft but it turns out that I inadvertently forgot to thin that diameter from .350 down to the .310 called for. I still have to round out the cam lobes too but all of this is the more fun minor stuff. Once these things are done I can fit it all up with gaskets, check compression and work on connecting the ignition system. 

A quick question to any of you IC guys...what weight of oil should be used in these scale size engines. This one just has a splash type system within the lower crankcase, and basically the little finger on the bottom of the connecting rod is what splashes it about on each revolution.

Bill


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Bill,
I use a straight weight 30 in my engines, both splash and pressure although a synthetic might be better, the same as it is in a full sized engine.
I don't think it's really critical. Remember it's not like we have to go out in the snow and cold to start them up. :big:
gbritnell


----------



## steamer

I'm with metalmad!  Needs some Briggs black paint and a whole bunch of dried grass clippings! ;D

just kidding Bill...


That is a work of art Bill! Man I am so honored you have taken us along for this ride....can't wait for the first run! :bow:

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks for the info George. And Dave thanks for the kind words. After the lengthy and frustrating haitus on this project, I am ready to press on to the end now and hope to get a lot done over the Christmas break. Keep your fingers crossed that it will run !!! 

Bill


----------



## joe d

Bill

I'm happy to add my congratulations on the progress to date, I've been following along all the way
and have been enjoying it. Dave (Steamer) is right, it really won't look like a Briggs until
it's all gummed up with old oil and dead grass  (at least, it would look like mine)

Great work, looking forward to the first run.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## steamer

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info George. And Dave thanks for the kind words. After the lengthy and frustrating hiatus on this project, I am ready to press on to the end now and hope to get a lot done over the Christmas break. Keep your fingers crossed that it will run !!!
> 
> Bill



It is a forgone conclusion that sometime in the very near future we all will have a bouncing baby Briggs as a nephew!....he looks like a boy anyway ;D
I have complete faith!

Dave


----------



## b.lindsey

Though it doesn't look like a lot of progress, I spent all morning fitting the various inner workings together, checking fits and clearances, etc. As shown in the first photo below there isn't much room when teh connecting rod passes by the cam shaft but a bit of minor modifications and everything clears now, and I am happy with the minimal end play of the crankshaft as well. Hopefully this afternoon and tomorrow I can get the valve train installed and double check timing. and the valve action and such. Another 4-5 hours closer at least.


----------



## b.lindsey

Assembly has finally begun with a good full day in the shop today and another hopefully tomorrow. There are still a few little bits to make or add here and there but the basic frame is iready to start adding parts to. Picture 1 shows the bushings extenfing slightly down into the crankcase to guide the motion of the tappets. Picture 2 the pin for what would be a lever start affixed into the crankcase, pictures 3 & 4 show a backtracking item done today adding the 8 #60 holes through the oil ring and into the wrist pin cavity for lubrication.


----------



## b.lindsey

The next three pictures show the valves, spring, keepers and pins installed in what is a rather small space for my somewhat pudgy fingers. The cavity measures 1.25" wide x .625: high and the springs needed to be almost fully compressed in order to slip the pins into the valve stems to hold the keepers. Pictures 2 & 3 show the crankcase witrh the valves installed along with the piston and after checking for the correct opening and closing of the valves relative to the pistons position. More to follow later tonight or in the morning.


----------



## stevehuckss396

It's really starting to come together. Looking good!


----------



## steamer

Looks like the engine off my Mini-bike some 35 years ago,,,, :big:


After It got burned up and just as I rebuilt it....... :big:


Dave


----------



## gbritnell

Darn, that thing is sweet, Bill.
gbritnell


----------



## krv3000

ooooo i cud juts look at the piston all day never mind the engine :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## swilliams

Haven't checked in for some time, but looks super impressive as always Bill

Steve


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks guys for checking in. Here are a few more pictures from last night that I'm just getting posted.Now that the crankshaft is installed semi-permanently, I added the oil seals to both sides (pictures 1 & 2), the pulley (picture 3), and the faux points and condenser cover (behind the flywheel) along with the flywheel and starter hub (picture 4).


----------



## b.lindsey

The last two from last night show the reinstallation of the breather assembly and the small brass baffle. More to come today.


----------



## NickG

Beautiful! Have been waiting for this moment! :bow:


----------



## b.lindsey

Thanks Nick. Last two pictures for today. First is of the governor assembly attached, and second one is of the valve cover installed. Need to do a little finish work on the cylinder head tomorrow and then it should be ready to test compression.The gas tank/carb and muffler are ready to hang on to the block so if the compression tests out ok the last bit will be installing the ignition system (mainly locating and mounting the hall sensor behind the back edge of the fluwheel) and setting timing.


----------



## rake60

I have been collecting and restoring antique Briggs engines for 2 decades now.

Many parts have become impossible to find.
Truth is, my home hobby machine shop was assembled to make the parts I needed
but couldn't find for my restorations. The model engine building thing came along later.

Bill I recognize every part you have made.
If this model thing doesn't work out and you can make those parts full scale, I have a list
of fellow restorers who are looking for parts!  

Beautiful craftsmanship on every detail! Thm:

_(I still have the 1930's Briggs Model Y in the basement)_ 

Rick


----------



## Deanofid

It's really great watching this one go together, Bill. It's been my favorite thread for a good long while,
and now that it's looking like it will be done soon, I know I'll miss it.
When it fires up, I'll be wishing it could be POM again. It's definitely top grade!

Dean


----------



## b.lindsey

Rick and Dean, thanks so much to both of you for your help and support throughout. I just feel bad that it has taken so long but other equally pleasurable things have needed to take a front seat at times, including a second grandbaby (and first grandson) Davis Daniel Fry this past Nov 25. Proud grandpa pictures below if I may hijack the thread for one post ;D Lindsey Page back in Oct during Cotton Ginning Days Festival and Davis on his birthday.


----------



## b.lindsey

And a P.S. for Rick... If this one runs without too many issues...I am still definitely interested in the Model "Y".


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## b.lindsey

So.....being new to IC and such...could some of you experienced IC'ers tell me if the pictured set up will work for compression testing? I found a nylon "hook up" set at the local auto parts store that had the tubing, and several assorted 1/8 NPT and 1/4 NPT ends, tubing ferrules, etc. one of which fits the back connector on the gage and one of which I turned down and rethreaded to the 1/4-32 spark plug thread size. So if I conect the spark plug end into the cylinder head as shown (with teflon tape) and check the compression stroke and hold it at TDC, will this give me useful information. If so I can order a gage in the 0-30 or 0-60 psi range for better resolution. If not then I am only out about $7.99 for the hook-up set. Any thoughts appreciated.


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## gbritnell

Hi Bill,
A compression check is usually done by having the engine turn over through several compression strokes to get peak compression. This eliminates and false readings from leakage. For this you need some type of check valve in the line to hold the compression. The next problem is the check valve needs to be right at the end of the line (near the head) so that the extra volume from the line doesn't add to the combustion chamber volume. I made a checker for my small engines but I can't tell you if the readings were good or not. They always seemed to be much lower than what is required for combustion (35-45 lbs.) so I quit checking them and just used seat-of-the-pants checking. Turn it over and if it felt like it was bumping against compression then it must be good. 
gbritnell


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## b.lindsey

George, thanks for the info. and that makes sense as far as determining peak compression. I was wondering too though if building compression during one compression stroke and seing how fast the leakage occurs might say anything as to valve seating, ring bypass, etc. Just an idle question more out of ignorance than anything.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

One of the other "leftover" things that needed to be done was contouring the underside of the cylinder head to blend in the .125" deep pockets around the valve heads with the .0625 deep recess over the cylinder. After much careful filing, dremel-ing, and then last night using a felt buff with clover compound, it looks more like it should. I fit the gasket on and attached the head to the cylinder and turned it over a few times. The valves need a little more seating or lapping in but the rings seem to be ok since after removing the head and placing my hand over just the cylinder i was getting good compression. Will be working on the valve seating today and this evening and once that is resolved, assembly can proceed.


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## b.lindsey

Getting closer now....as it turned out the valve seating wasn't the issue, the intake valve had some interference with the cylinder head and was sticking open, which doesn't do much for compression obviously. A little more work of the underside of the head on the intake side to add clearance for the valve and some additional cosmetic blending and polishing due to above problem and wanting the transition from the valve areas to the cylinder area as smooth as possible. and it was ready to try again. This did the trick and as George noted a few posts back I could feel the compression and if i spun the flywheel fast enough it would "bounce" back once it neared TDC on the compression stroke. Obviously there could be numerous problems...will it actually suck gas up the dip tube from the tank? Are the rings sealing well enough? Will the carburetor work? Etc, etc. But at least aside from making one more bolt, a spring from the governor to the butterfly valve, and some sort of throttling method the fabrication work is finally done. Today and this weekend I will be working on the ignition system, timing, etc. A few pictures of everything put together follow. I can almost smell the exhaust fumes already...


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## NickG

It is mind bogglingly good! Amazing achievement :bow:


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## dalem9

Wonderful work You should be very proud . Dale


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## gbritnell

Bill,
I don't know what else to say but beautiful job my friend. It has taken a long time but well worth the time and effort.
gbritnell


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## ozzie46

Absolutely amazing!! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

  As George has said there isn't anything else that I can say to express myself adequately.

 Thanks for the journey. It has been an incredible ride. I have picked up so many little tid bits of techniques along the way. Thank you.


 Ron


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## arnoldb

Bill, that little beauty is simply gorgeous assembled up :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Your build is a prime example of true model engineering from inception to finish :bow:

Now then, when's the fuel hitting the tank ? ;D

Kind regards, Arnold


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## dreeves

What A build :bow: . I have been following it from the start. All I can say is we want a video

Dave


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## b.lindsey

Gentlemen, thanks to all of you for the nice comments. If all goes well then the weekend should put things very near a first attempt trial so I'll report more when that happens but its a lot closer than when things started off now more than 2 years ago. I did put together an 8 minute or so montage of pictures throughout the build which was kind of fun for me....call it the reader's digest version of these 50+ pages in pictures. When the time comes though, there will most definitely be a video. Needless to say I will b e one happy camper when this thing runs!!

For any interested, the video can be seen here: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwdmxqZnvSw


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## krv3000

HI well that is brill well dun you  :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## flyingtractors1

WOW, Bill !!! I just saw your video on Youtube. OH MY GOODNESS! I am Amazed - Blown away! Your work of mechanical art reminded me of the story about Michael Angelo when asked how could he sculpt such a beautiful elephant. His response was, " First - find a block of marble, then remove all the parts that don't look like an elephant." I have followed your build and praise you thoroughly.  :bow:  :bow:  :bow: Congratulations! And thanks for sharing. Ralph


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## Deanofid

Gee, it's beautiful, Bill. A real masterpiece. Yes, I want to see it run, but I could just look at the pictures all day!

Dean


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## 90LX_Notch

Bill-

This has been a great build. I can't wait to see it run. :bow: :bow: :bow:

-Bob


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## Swede

Magnificent!!!  :bow:


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## kcraig51

I haven't check on your progress lately. Again WOW is all I can say. The crankshaft just blows my mind. I've been a machinist and small engine tech for 25 yrs. I've never seen such a well done model (I should say piece of art). I can't imagine the amount of patience it's taken on this project. I would have threw up my hands and quit long ago. Thanks for sharing the build!


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## vcutajar

That slideshow on utube was just amazing. th_confused0052


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## b.lindsey

Again guys, thanks for all the nice comments. Made a little progress over the weekend on the ignition system. The spark plug clip and ground connector both had to be soldered to the respective leads and shrink tubing applied (photo 1). Then a cutout in the bottom of the ignition box was made to allow for routing of the spark and ground wires and the hall sensor connector with the hope of keeping all the wires somewhat neat and hidden (photo 2). The wires extending out of the top of the box are for charging the batteries and the on/off switch and will normally just be kept inside the box though I think I will make a small "L" bracked to mount the switch to the inside of the box above the batteries. Finally (photo 3) the hall sensor and it's plastic housing were mounted to the plate with silicone adhesive which seems to have worked well. The leads from the hall sensor will be routed along the plate and inside the shroud and exit through a slot near the bottom of the shroud again for asthetic reasons. Just want to make sure there isn't a chance for it contact the flywheel which would not be good!! This evening I will drill the back side of the flywheel to accept the small 1/8" dia. magnet. The the ignition system can be tested and timing set. Thanks for checking in.


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## metalmad

Absolutely awe inspiring :bow:
Can not wait for first pop
Pete


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## b.lindsey

Not a lot to report today, I did get the second bolt made last evening for holding the crankcase to the base which is a bit of a trick to install. The small relief just above the mounting tab on the front of the crankcase proved to be necessary as it was on the original engine. I have been scrounging around for a compass (the magnetic type) in oder to determine the south pole of the magnet which actuates the hall sensor. One of the professors here at work came to the rescue so tonight the magnet can be installed into the flywheel with the correct orientation and the system cautiously checked out. More to come but getting closer.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Semi-short update on progress. The back side of the flywheel was drilled and the magnet mounted flush with the back surface (photo 1). Meanwhile the slow process of routing the hall sensor wiring harness down along the inside of the plate behind the flywheel was done in several steps, tacking it to the plate with silicone in three places (photo 2). A small slot near the bottom of the shroud will let the wires exit hopefully without looking too bad. Along with the ignition system I also bought the timing tester which shows via LED and buzzer when the hall effect sensor "trips" as the magnet passes. Photo 3 shows this at the point where the LED switched on though it may be hard to tell that. The good news is that everything seems to be working properly thus far. Again, while waiting for the RTV silicone to "dry" I made a small angle bracket for the ignition on/ofof switch and mounted it to the side of the box (photo 4).


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## b.lindsey

Lastly for now...I tried to neaten up the inside of the box some, covering the battery cast with a layer of foam and putting two layers of foam under neath the ignition module. The wire lengths are still a bit long but can be coiled up and zip tied later to neaten thing up even more. The only pigtail that should be needed on a regular basis is the lead to the battery charger. This is shown in the last photo. On now to checking to make sure there is spark and getting the timing set.


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## vcutajar

Bill

Nearly there. Looking forward to see it running.

Vince


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## b.lindsey

Yep, getting close Vince....and as a short post script...it does have spark so that means the ignition system is fully functioning!!!

Bill


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## Deanofid

Great news on the spark, Bill. Now for the pop!


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## steamer

Oh goodie goodie goodie goodie!..... ;D


Dave


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## krv3000

oooo its all most ther


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## b.lindsey

One last picture of the shroud with its attachment bolts and the cutout lower down for the hall sensor leads to exit and a little better routing of the ground wire and spark plug cable. I hope this evening to add some oil to the crancase, wet the tank, and see what happens initially. Certainly not expecting a perfect trial but we'll see what happens.


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## kustomkb

All the best with tonight's trial Bill.

Outstanding craftsmanship. It looks really great!


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## steamer

Good Luck Bill!

Dave


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## GailInNM

To paraphrase a certain motel advertisement-
"I'll leave the computer on" and listen for pops.
Lovely work.
Gail in NM


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## dgjessing

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> ... and listen for pops.



I can hear it already! What a great project :bow:


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## b.lindsey

Update from last night...mostly good. There were pops...several sustained pops for maybe 5 seconds...so that is the good news. I am now 100% confident this thing is gonna run...followed by semi-huge smile and very huge sigh of relief. The ignition system seems to work perfectly, there is good compression, and if anything my earlier concerns as to the ability of the carb to suck fuel up from the gas tank through the dip tube and deliver it with air to the cylinder were totally unfounded. If anything it does that too well, and what few short bursts there were had the needle valve open only a half turn or so. More will need to be done on that and finding just the right starting and run settings, and its still too soon to tell how well the carb will throttle the engine but all the basics are there....spark, fuel, compression, etc.

The only real downside was that I had loctited the crankshaft gear onto the crankshaft hoping this would hold it steady until the valve timing was "proven," but this was not the case. While it didn't actually break loose, it did rotate some, enough to mess up the valve timing, which resulted in some slight interference also between the connecting rod and one of the cam lobes. This will be taken care of today by pinning the gear to the shaft as was the intent all along, and polishing up the con rod a bit. Due to several late changes in the con rod for clearance purposes (aside from the above problem), I will in all probability remake it though the present one is fully functional and tests will continue with it.

The enginie is now in parts again pending these changes, with reassembly tonight and with hopes of a more sustained run.


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## b.lindsey

As a side note, with a pulley on one end of the crankshaft and the starter hub on the flywheel side, it pretty much falls to the scale starter rope wound around the starter hub and pulled as in the old days to turn the engine over for starting. This I think just adds to the scale appeal of the model, but it does require that the LH nut be torqued well. Once that was done though I had no problems with the nut and starter hub wanting to loosen from the pull cord. At present there is no key between the flywheel and shaft, as this would make ignition timing changes almost impossible, but once all that is figured out and settled on, this may be added. For now the taper in the flywheel bore and the matching taper on the shaft are holding well and more than sufficient for the continuation of tests and fine tuning.

All in all it was a long and if not totally successful night, one that still has me pumped up and eager to cross the finish line.

Thanks to all for the comments, wishes, and for checking in.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

one final comment...if things go well tonight I will try to post at least a short video, but as luck would have it, I will be traveling on business from Sat afternoon through Tuesday and will have time to make a better video once I return. After 2+ years, whats a couple of days though right? :big:


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## arnoldb

Thm: Thm: ;D



> I am now 100% confident this thing is gonna run...


So were we Bill - all along!

Kind regards, Arnold


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## steamer

Ditto! Waiting patiently.....ok not really patiently ;D

Dave


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## ozzie46

Eagerly awaiting the sounds of combustion. ;D

  Ron


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## b.lindsey

Thanks Arnold, Dave and Ron....from what i heard all too briefly its going to make a sweet putt-putt sound at idle anyway.

Bill


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## b.lindsey

Its alive, its alive!!! Will try do make and post a video after dinner even if crude for now.


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## metalmad

Congrats on first pop Bill :bow:
hanging out for the Video :big:
Pete


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## ShedBoy

Nice one
Brock


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## krv3000

Congrats well dun you I have enjoyed this build 5 **** to you   regards bob


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## stevehuckss396

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> Its alive, its alive!!! Will try do make and post a video after dinner even if crude for now.



Don't worry about it! I got video of the absolute first run of both my V4 and V8. They smoke like crazy and bearly run but I post them anyway. I do it because I'm excited but I also think people should see that first runs are not pretty. That way they won't think something is wrong when they start theirs for the first time.


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## vcutajar

Great news Bill. I know how it feels when a long running project comes to a successful end. It's time to enjoy seeing your creation do its thing.

Vince


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## 90LX_Notch

Bill-

Congrats!!!

I can't wait to see the video!

-Bob


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## b.lindsey

Here you go...its a little rough yet but it is going round and round on its own. The garage isn't great for sound either but I still have to get ready for travel tomorrow so this will have to do for now. More once I get back on Tuesday. Thanks for all your patience and needless to say i am happy with the results especially for the first sustained run. There is no throttle linkage yet so thats what im fiddling with at times in the video. And the carb is far more sensitive that I had expected...there will need to be some more fine tuning on that... the needle valve was barely open at all for these runs and it still seems as if its too rich.

Bill

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5w-t4-sM8A[/ame]


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## GailInNM

That's great Bill.
Your short trip is going to seem like a month as you wait to get back to play.
 :bow: :bow:
Gail in NM


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## joe d

Bill

That was great! I've enjoyed the whole thing from the start. :bow: :bow: :bow:

Cheers, Joe


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## 90LX_Notch

Bill-

Beyond cool. The first engine I ever rebuilt was a small B&S like that in Intro to Auto Shop back in high school. Your engine is priceless. Well worth the wait.

-Bob


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## rake60

*That Is Drop Dead Gorgeous Bill!* :bow:

It starts on the second pull? That's GREAT!!!!!

The REAL old cast iron Briggs engines are usually cold blooded buggers.
They can be tough to start but once they warm up they'll run all day.

If you have a problem getting them to that point, it's probably because 
you're using the right words when you talk to them. 
Ask me how I know that. I can send you the list of necessary words but 
your email server may block or refuse it.  

Beautiful build!
Thanks for taking us along for the ride!

Rick


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## chuck foster

excellent build and engine :bow: :bow:

chuck


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## Maxine

Fantastic!


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## Deanofid

After watching this thread for over two years, it was SO WORTH IT! Congrats, Bill!
Gee, sounds just like a little Briggs, too.  ;D
Wonderful!


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## steamer

Bill 

What can I say man but congratulations and a well done!

She's beautiful!

That's masters status with me.....dream it and then, make it happen!

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

Dave


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## rklopp

Beautiful! Congratulations. You should be proud.


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## NickG

Absolutely fantastic Bill :bow: Not that I expected anything less watching the way you have gone through this project. I'm always amazed with stuff like this, that it actually sounds like the real thing!

 :bow:


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## swilliams

Great to see it going Bill, that really is a very impressive build


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## gbritnell

The final results are excellent. We have all followed the journey waiting for this day. On top of being an outstanding build it is unique in the world of model engines. I'm hoping for your sake that it has enough flywheel to get the rpm down but I have found that when you scale an engine down the centrifugal action of a scale wheel just doesn't have enough inertia at slower speeds. 
Once again, outstanding build. :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## ozzie46

Yipppeeeee!!!. The sweet sounds of my youth.  woohoo1 woohoo1 th_wav th_wav th_wav th_wav

The sore arms from pulling the rope. :redface2: :redface2: :redface2: The rope breaking and me falling down.  :rant: :rant:

 On second thought I sure liked them wind up starters when they came out. Thm:


 Ron


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## b.lindsey

Many thanks to all for following along on this build and for your support along the way. There remain a few things to do yet like a throttle mechanism, seeing how things wear in after a few hours of run time (meaning I hope it won't self destruct), and as george mentioned, working towards a lower idle speed too. I think the flywheel, being an almost solid chunk of brass will have enough inertia, the issue for new seems more a problem of controlling the butterfly valve and needle valve. Playing around with the timing may help the lower end too, will just have to see in the coming week.

Again thanks to all of you for the comments. If nothing else I do hope it represents a unique model that many of us have ties to from our youth or from collecting and restoring older Briggs engines.

Bill


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## kvom

Echoing the rest of the comments here. Great job! Karma point for you. :bow:


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## dsquire

Bill

I think every one else has used up all the words of praise already. I fully agree with every one of them. Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder while you created this masterpiece. :bow: :bow:

Cheers 

Don


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## the engineer

from a briggs master service tech thanks its been wondeful following on this build great to hear it run 
many thanks for letting us share 
its the sort of build i dont feel like sitting under my bench howling about my feeble efforts and seeing the toils and troubles along the way makes it all the more at home with us
 well done 
 now for the opposed twin version?


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## ShopShoe

Phenomenol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I enjoyed all your posts on this one. Thank you for sharing it all with comments along the way

--ShopShoe


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## jonesie

this is is a fine piece of workmanship, something to be real proud off. also enjoyed hearing it run, fine job. jonesie


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## kustomkb

Congratulations Bill!

A fine piece of model engineering which sounds just like the real thing.


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## zeeprogrammer

Awesome Bill.
I'm really happy to see this after my being away so long.
Absolutely beautiful work.
Congratulations!


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