# milling machine choice, what mill do you have for small engine building



## oldncrusty (May 11, 2011)

Im looking for opinions, pics, of your milling machine,
as you know i was earlier asking about a lathe, and bought a 9inch SB, that ive taken apart to the nuts and bolts,
to re-furbish, scrub,scrape, degrease, and re-paint,
im having a ball,
my goal is to get a Lathe,milling machine again, and start building small engines, again, after a 4 yr withdrall,
I once bought an old 645 index mill i restored, but sadly its gone now, and ive no room for a large mill,
I know going from a large mill to a small mill will be an experiance,,

so,
tell me what type of mill/mini-mill, you have,
ive 550.00 saved on selling a RC helo, and am going to buy a mini-mill G8689, 624.00 or save for another two months
and buy the G0704, at 1089.00
if i go with the mini, i can buy tooling sooner,
if i go with the 07, itl take longer to get tooled up,

so
for building engines,
talk to me,
I downloaded the plans for the pump-jack, and have my Odds and ends engine ready to be finished,

thanks
john


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## bentprop (May 11, 2011)

Many people make beautiful engines on small machines.However,if you ever intend to branch out into making your own tooling,or perhaps larger models,you may need the extra capacity of a larger machine.
I have a ZAY7045 mill-drill,which is more than big enough for model engines,but I bought it originally to build a 5" gauge loco.I've given up on the locos,but the mill is still very handy for removing large amounts of metal in a short time.
A smaller machine would force you to make lighter cuts,so would take longer.
Time is not so much of an issue i suppose,but the bigger the machine,the more rigid it will be.And rigid machines don't break so many end mills.(famous last words :big.
Here's a pic of a 45 type:http://image.made-in-china.com/4f0j...ng-Machine-ZAY7032FG-ZAY7040FG-ZAY7045FG-.jpg
Personally,I would say,bigger is better,and tooling costs for a bigger machine are not necessarily higher.
The old story,I guess,ya pays yer money,an ya takes yer choice.


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## gbritnell (May 12, 2011)

Hi John,
The only thing that I can recommend for sure it to buy a machine with a knee. It's not that you can't do good work with other types (round column) but it sure makes it easier to use when going between different tools. When I bought mine many years ago I was constrained by money and used machinery wasn't as prevalent as it is today so that is what I bought and made it work. Nowadays there is so much to choose from and can be had, in some cases, quite reasonably. 
gbritnell


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## Omnimill (May 12, 2011)

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> The only thing that I can recommend for sure it to buy a machine with a knee.



Agreed, I bought one of these: http://www.warco.co.uk/VMC-Turret-Mill-C7DAEB08E0.aspx

Vic.


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## Paulsv (May 12, 2011)

Omnimill  said:
			
		

> Agreed, I bought one of these: http://www.warco.co.uk/VMC-Turret-Mill-C7DAEB08E0.aspx
> 
> Vic.



I'm curious. I have heard a lot of people advise others in favor of a knee mill. I can understand the advantqge over a round column mill, but what is the advantage over a dovetailed column mill, like the X2 or X3, or the Grizzly G0704? Is it just that knee mills are bigger / heavier?


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## Bernd (May 12, 2011)

John,

I have the the Mini G8689. I changed the lead screws from 16tpi to 20tpi. I don't like that the whole head with spindle assembly travels up and down. I like a seperate spindle travel. Which the mini dosen't have. I fixed that problem by getting a used Bridgeport, which I have room for. :big:

If I had to do it over again I would look at the G0619. Might be a bit more money, but you'd get some nice fetures with it. It has an R8 spindle so tooling shouldn't be to bad to get or make.

Just my 2¢.

Bernd


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## Omnimill (May 12, 2011)

Paulsv  said:
			
		

> I'm curious. I have heard a lot of people advise others in favor of a knee mill. I can understand the advantqge over a round column mill, but what is the advantage over a dovetailed column mill, like the X2 or X3, or the Grizzly G0704? Is it just that knee mills are bigger / heavier?



I expect Dovetailed mills are fine, in fact I considered the X3 myself but decided it was not heavy enough for the intended use. Knee mills are of industrial rather than hobby design and have stood the test of time. All this is fine though, it depends how much space you have and how deep your pockets are! I spent about twice what I wanted on getting a mill :-[

Vic.


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## oldncrusty (May 12, 2011)

as much as i would love to have a knee mill, i dont have the space nor the cash for one,
hence my statement about the mini-mill or the 07,,as these are the two im looking at,
and the 07 would have to be taken off the stand, and placed on the bench,,
yes id go for the larger one up from the 07,
, but its a matter of cash-not-flowing,
Im working on my bench now, for the 9inch SB and a mill, as i have to sit while working,

I was more looking for opinions on mills the size ive stated, not the bigger ones, as i know
what a nice 645 index mill is like, i know ill miss the weight and capability,
but time has changed things, all but the desire to still
Make-things

thank you all
j


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## Troutsqueezer (May 12, 2011)

Do you have a space you can get a fork lift into? If not, do you have a football team you can invite over? I don't, several reasons why I didn't buy a big mill. 

I only have a wooden shed with wooden stairs that lead up to it. Yes, it does look out over a beautiful valley and is a peaceful place to be but that doesn't help my machining any, only my outlook on machining.  I can see those steps collapsing and a big mill landing right on my toe as I write this. I'm not sure those 2 x 8 floor joists would hold either. 

For the following reasons (among others), I would recommend the Harbor Freight mini mill. 

You can pick it up and move it anywhere any time you want. 

It makes parts to an accuracy of at least .001". 

Are you in a hurry to make parts? I'm not, small bites of metal at a time is just dandy. 

I've never broken an end mill. Not even close. Even when I didn't know how to use it and kept climb milling, bringing the machine to a sudden halt. 

Are you made of money? Me neither. The price was just right. 

Got a 18 wheeler? Me neither. Just went down to Harbor Freight and threw it in the back of the Prius. 

Do you think that support, advice and upgrades might be important to something like this? You'll find groups and websites dedicated to this machine and parts galore.

Taking these things into consideration and also the fact that this mill will churn out most anything you need for model engines with hardly any frustration, it seems a good choice, to me anyway.

Later, if you find that you would like to step up, you can sell the mini mill in one afternoon on Craigslist. How do I know? Just try to find one for sale and if you do, see how long it lasts. 

For your first machine, how do you beat that?

-Trout


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## Paulsv (May 12, 2011)

I looked for a long time at X2's and X3's and similar sized mills, and ended up getting the G0704. I am very impressed with it so far. I would have liked a bridgeport, but had no room for it, and didn't want to have to refurbish an older machine. The larger table travels were a big consideration for me, and I have been pleasantly surprised by the rigidity for its size. I considered something a little bigger, but the 0704 was about as big as I wanted to have to hump down into my basement shop, and i felt it was plenty big for the model engines I planned to build. It can easily hold a 4 or 5 inch vise, and a 6 inch rotary table. That seems to be a nice size for model engine building, although there are people on this site and others who do amazing work on the X2 as well. For a lot of info on the 0704, check this site:

www.bf20.com


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## Twmaster (May 12, 2011)

Crusty...

Buy the biggest machine you can afford and deal with physically. I have a Taig Micro Mill and love the thing. Unfortunately I have outgrown a small mill. 

Just something to consider.


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## oldncrusty (May 12, 2011)

troutsqueezer,,lol,, I love it,,,,

I live in a 24ft 5th wheel,,lol,,,hence my wanting small but good,,the door is only 20 inches wide,
Luckily, my girlfriend is letting me use her garage, the back half,,7'x3' so its still a small space
as she has to get her car in there,,
and,,if i end up back in that camper,,i want to take my toys with me,,
i lost a 645 mill, and a 12x36 lathe on the last one,,couldent get them in my camper,,lol,,,

thanks for the link,
im heading in the G07 direction,,
I can take it apart and move it comfortably if i have to,
if i have to, lathe on one side, mill on the other,,in the camper,,cool, for me, its size and weight,
ive been RV,ing it, since my axident 5yrs ago, so life is good,
watch out for that shed, dont crack a joice or its gonna hurt,

and im in no hurry, at 51 and in my shape,
life is just a clock ticking the days away,


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## Tin Falcon (May 12, 2011)

Old crusty: 
 The what machine to buy question is one that had been tossed around the block a few times. I think the ultimate answer is very individual and personal. I saw an index mill for sale a couple weeks ago. but passed on it . 
I started out with a Grizzly 7 x 10 lathe, then got a belt/disk sander and a bench band saw later a horizontal band saw. and then a 9" SB a couple years ago I added a 7" sharper. I guy that lives on a farm has a loaded and a large truck will be able hand big stuff where a guy that live in an apartment has a basement shop with limited access or like you live in an rv will have different perspective. 
Sounds like trout put some good things out there to think about. 
If you are looking at small but good you may want to look into the Littlemachineshop or micromark x-2 Mini a bit more money but the size and weight are about the same but larger motor and belt drive. Also the Taig and sherlines have good reps and are made in USA. 
Tin


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## jpeter (May 12, 2011)

A friend makes most of his stuff in his Sherline shop. He's got a mill and lathe. It's light but accurate. He takes his time and gets it done. Here's a link to one of his engines.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXwa49PLX7Y[/ame]


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## Deanofid (May 12, 2011)

I have three lathes, but only one mill. It's a Taig. I've made a LOT of engines and tooling. It's accurate
out of the box, and stays that way. I've never broken an end mill because of the lack of rigidity. It's plenty rigid, and everything on it is made to last. If a mill that size fits the work envelope you have planned, you will not do any better. It'll fit in your camper, too.


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## Paulsv (May 12, 2011)

With a small workspace like that, I would look at the x2. The G0704 has a table that is almost 2 feet wide, with handles that hang out 5 or 6 inches each side, and 19 inches of X travel. So if you are going to leave any room for your hands to turn the handles, you need a space about 5 feet wide to use the full travel.


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## shred (May 14, 2011)

I love my 8x36 Millrite (2/3rd-size Bridgeport), but it is overkill for small engines by a long way and requires pallet-jack and engine-hoist to move. I did several engines on a Taig and it did just fine. The learnings you get from running a smaller mill will transfer over if you ever do decide to get a bigger one and the little ones can be re-sold pretty easily as lots more people are looking for one than a 3000 lb monster.


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