# Are we the fringe?



## 90LX_Notch (Apr 2, 2012)

Is it just my experience, or are we some sort of fringe group? 

When ever I show people my engines or what I'm working on they just don't seem interested. No one has ever asked to see my shop. No one really wants to know how the engines are made. I think this hobby is just so far beyond the scope of what most people can do that they can't appreciate it at all.

For example- My brother in law was over this past weekend. I showed him my current work in progress (GailInNM's Lobo Pup Twin). The one thing that he was amazed at was that I made the spring on the carb. The simplest part of the whole thing!  :wall: Forget about the crankcase or any of the machined parts of the carb. "You mean you made that spring. How did you do that?" Then as I started to explain it to him, he turned his attention to another conversation that was going on. 

Thank God for the members of HMEM!


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## kustomkb (Apr 2, 2012)

It does seem that most don't or can't appreciate the time and skill that goes into an engine.

Maybe it's the fear of the unknown or something.

I showed my wife's, friends, husband a running vacuum engine which had a highly polished flywheel, he used the blade of a knife against the flywheel to see if he could slow it down!?? I thought to myself, I don't think we can be friends...

When I hear "ya, but what does it do?" the conversation is over.


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## steamer (Apr 2, 2012)

YUP!

Most people don't "get the joke" .  I'm an engineer, and most of these guys get it...but beyond that......"deer in the headlights!"

That's OK....WE don't need that..and those that do "get the joke"....make up for those that don't!

Dave


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## moconnor (Apr 2, 2012)

Hello Guys,

My wife is a law professor and I used to be really nervous whenever I would have to attend social events or award ceremonies, etc.. The first few times I just kept to myself, followed the good wife around and did a lot of nodding and smiling. She wasn't real pleased with me, but I didn't really think that I would have anything in common with her colleagues. Now I am proud to be a machinist and an instructor as it was what I always wanted to do. I just assumed that no one would be interested.

One night, one of my wife's good friends from work started a conversation and was intent on finding out what I do for a living. He is a lawyer, so he has the questioning thing down pretty well. Anyway, he was fascinated when I described my shop and the projects that I am working on. Come to find out that his grandfather had a lathe in his basement and that he inherited all of his measuring tools. After that conversation, it was easy! More times than not, there is some connection to a relative who is or was a machinist and now my wife is having to drag me out of these things. Last summer, I was at a wedding of one of my wife's closest friends in Minneapolis and we were talking to one of her colleagues at the reception and the women suggested that we go have dinner sometime. Again I am thinking, what am I going to talk about with a Harvard Law Professor? Turns out, this one has his own machine shop in his basement too! It was a good night.

So lately I have had the exact opposite experience than those that have posted previously. Not sure if it has been luck or good fortune, but I don't dread these social interactions anymore. Talking about our hobby is important, especially to young people. We should all be advocates of any hobby that could encourage someone to become interested in metal working and machining. Back when I was kid, the thing that got me interested in this hobby or even the possibility of having my own lathe someday occurred when I was about ten years old. My Dad was dropping off his new hydroplane at the pin striper, who was also a antique car guy and I was tagging along as usual. I noticed a 6" Atlas lathe on the back bench and asked him about it. He went in the house and came back out with a Stuart 10V that was just beautiful and he explained how his Dad made that on the little Atlas lathe. Because he took the time to show a curious kid his lathe and some models, he opened a door of possibilities that I never knew existed. We should all endeavor to take the time to encourage people to join our ranks and show them that this is indeed possible.

Regards,
Mike


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## Captain Jerry (Apr 2, 2012)

It is hard to imagine how anyone can exist without an understanding and appreciation of mechanical things but they do exist. Some of them even seem happy.

Jerry


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## JorgensenSteam (Apr 2, 2012)

The general public does seem awefully far removed from things technical, probably a situation exacerbated by the fact that so much industry has migrated to China.

One of my wife's relatives is a retired lawyer, but does woodworking, and so is familiar with working with things. Most others are interested, but don't really have a concept of metal working, or a clue as to why anyone would do it.

The hardware stores are dumbing down everything, and they are more about making fashion statements out of your house, much to my wife's delight, instead of the old taps, dies, fasteners, etc. one use to see in a hardware store.

Generally, I think the hobby is prohibitively expensive for young people to get into, and it has a long learning curve. I am not sure if the next generation will pick up the torch or not. I don't see many young people in the photos at the shows.

People who design engines seem to be even more rare. Generally people don't want to talk about design, just the build aspects of an engine.

I started to look at this hobby seriously a few years ago when I inheirited my Dad's equipment, and I assumed that everyone just built steam engines from scratch like my Dad did. I have been surprised by how few do that.

I was glad to find HMEM, and have tried to leave a paper trail of what I have learned on the internet, so the younger generation can follow.

I think one way to lure some youngsters into the hobby would be through 3D modeling, since you don't need the initial expense of a machine shop, but could still design and virtually build and run engines. It would be easier to transition into building engines if you had made them first with a modeling program.


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## pmerritt (Apr 2, 2012)

As a full time academic researcher in the biological sciences, I get the blank stare on both the work and hobby fronts. I can kill a conversation like no other! 

My father-in-law spent some time as a machinist in his youth and seems to appreciate the work that goes into engine making, though he shows little interest in my shop. My father seems genuinely impressed and has a nice woodworking shop but also shows little interest in the shop. I do have one friend, also an academician, who has a machine shop in his basement, but our interests are quite different and we don't stay in touch very well. 

Colleagues, forget it. They are clueless. I agree with Jerry and have a hard time understanding blissful ignorance on matters technical/mechanical. As others have said, thank goodness for HMEM!

Peter


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## MachineTom (Apr 2, 2012)

I find that so few people I know ever work with their hands, and brains at the same time. My son inlaw works with his hands, but the brain seems to not be engaged when doing so. Each year I hire a couple of the neighbors kids to help me clean the shop. I must first teach them how a broom works. None have asked what does this machine do, what do you make etc. The next door neighbor is a truck mechanic, but his son has no interest at all in mechanical things.


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## steamer (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey Mike,

Ya know, every once in a while I get a kid at a show or such events that just amazes me.

One hot August afternoon, I was in the begining of the 1/2 hour run on "Sabino" as Volunteer Engineer. Talk about a cross section of people....we would get all types. Those who really were interested in Sabino and her engine room and those that were'nt. 

One dad looked at his son and said "Imagine being so hard up that you have to shovel coal for a living!" :rant: I thought the Chief was going blow a pipe on that one. :big:

One day this one boy about 9 comes up to the railing over the engine room and says. very politely...."Excuse me Sir?....May I ask you a question?"  ( OK how many of you have been called "Sir" by a 9 year old kid lately?)  

His diction and sentence structure were impeccable...as were his manners....he really got my attention....he proceeded to ask me some simple questions about how the engine operated and why I was doing what I was doing....but then he continued.....from there every question was carefully constructed from my previous answer.....I mean this kids gears were spinning!  After about 20 minutes, he knew how the engine worked, what most of the valves did, what the firing tools were used for , where we bought our coal and what the bell code was!...with no intervention or assistance of any kind from a parent.  

OK...I look around and there leaning against the forward bulkhead about 15 feet away was what was obviously this kids Dad....between the smile on his face and the degree by which his chest was sticking out...it was obvious! :big:

Awesome kid....it was a "makes ya believe there is hope for humanity" kind of encounter.


So be kind, and don't be afraid to "let them in" because...3 out of 10 at least are WAY worth the trip for sure!

They're out there!

Dave


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## PerryRT (Apr 2, 2012)

I think I would go with "subculture", not "fringe". 

The average media-soaked human these days doesn't have any appreciation for the process of how things come to be. They just arrive at the door (FedEx overnight) and are used until they break, then discarded and upgraded. This is a big difference from what I've come to call the "first DIY movement" in the 1940's and 1950's. Back then, it was assumed that if you wanted something, you might have to build it from scratch, possibly assemble it, you would definitely maintain it, and certainly repair it. Today, my 18 month old cellphone is considered two or three generations obsolete, with no replacement parts available. However, there has also been a resurgance of interest in the last ... five years? decade? ... in "artisinal crafts". I've seen it in cooking, in electronics, and here as well. Some people are becoming more interested in *process* than the end result. Try a search on "the maker movement" sometime. They're out there!

My wife, incidentally, refers to this as "tool critical mass" - in other words, I now have acquired enough tools to at least take a pretty decent swing at repairing most basic problems I'm going to run into. (Either that, or she suspects I may explode someday...)

Now, the problem specific to our hobby is what economists call "barriers to entry". By the time you get equipped for a variety machining, you're probably a thousand dollars into the hobby (or more!), and (in the absence of a mentor or helper/co-dependent) that's frustrating for a lot of folks, I'm sure. For that reason, I suspect that the numbers of home shop machinists will always remain smaller than, say, electronic hobbists, or woodworkers. But it's not just us making stuff out there, and I honestly think that the membership in our hobby is likely to stabilize and grow in the next 20 years. 

The Internet is a double-edged sword. While studies have said that it causes a measurable change in the way brains process information (and not for the better) it also allows people to gather based not on location, but interest. I can find more information about machining processes (for free) here than probably any apprentice could fifty years ago. So hang in there, I suspect it will get better!


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## Mosey (Apr 2, 2012)

I recently hired a neighborhood kid (15 years old, 6'-2")to help me move my machines around in the shop and clean up some trash. He cuts wood, mows lawns, and races toy monster trucks and go-karts after school. When he came into the shop and saw the machines, he almost hurt himself falling down. He wanted to know about everything, and respectfully asked.
There's hope. And I will gladly teach him what I know.


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## flyingtractors1 (Apr 2, 2012)

We may well be a fringe group or subculture - And well on the way to extinction due in part to the fact that our culture has "progressed" from an industrial to an informational based society. It is hard to find much of anything made in USA these days, while "so much industry has migrated to China", India and other places. Our shops and factories just aren't doing it anymore - except for the Japanese cars that we build here, And our schools are, in large part, closing down their Industrial Arts course offerings and auctioning off their equipment for pennies on the dollar - and having trouble finding buyers. Our hobby / industry appears to be headed the way of the blacksmith trade. We in the hobby aren't doing enough to promote it either - even with forums like ours. We tend to isolate ourselves concentrating on our incredible high level projects searching for and getting well deserved accolades from each other and typically fialing to acknowledge the efforts and interests of beginners. Our behaviors are typically more exclussive than inclussive, and we wonder why youngsters - newbies of all ages become disheartened and pursue other interests. Maybe if we took greater interest in those who would emulate us, our interests would survive eminent extinction and even reverse the apparent trend.


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## Andy (Apr 2, 2012)

If we are a fringe group or subculture then that is OK with me and I'm glad to be part of it. Rather that than belong to the mainstream of people who, as Kurt Vonnegut observed many years ago 'can't put the screw cap back on a jar without crossing the threads' (or words to that effect). From my dealings with people this would seem to be true.

I think of this often when I've just got that 'inner glow' having repaired something easily for a few pounds (or nothing) instead of buying a new one for £100 or more.


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## mu38&Bg# (Apr 2, 2012)

This might put things into perspective. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...matic-change-education-economy-135944654.html

In 1940 24% of working people were involved in manufacturing. Today, there are 3 times as many people working but only 10% are involved in manufacturing. There are roughly the same umber of people working in manufacturing as there was 70 years ago.


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## Smifffy (Apr 2, 2012)

My experiences are a bit more positive. 

Most (not all!) of my friends or my wife's friends husbands (mouthfull!) have been given a tour of my workshop and shown my loco. Pretty much all were interested in what I am building and my machine tools and most do ask me every now and then how I am progressing. Like wise with colleagues at work.

I did have a carpenter come and do some work for me a couple of years back, but neither he or his mate showed any interest in my workshop, which really did surprise me.

Smifffy


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## Foozer (Apr 2, 2012)

With 10,000 of us old ferts turning 65 per day now, This Fringe group should be picking up some Steam



Robert


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## tel (Apr 2, 2012)

It's also a matter of location. Living in a rural area there is probably more interest around here (especially when 'they' want something done) than there would be if I was stuck in the 'burbs somewhere.


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## rake60 (Apr 2, 2012)

It is a fringe thing because most people just don't understand what it takes.

Most people have become members of the disposable goods mentality.
If you need or break something, go to WalMart and buy a new one!
Make one?_ *WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT? 
*_
Nobody seems to realize that somebody DID make it in the first place.

The blind spot is not in limited to machining.
I read a post from an animal rights activist condemning hunters.
_*"Some hunters say they hunt for meat. They should buy their meat at a grocery
grocery store where no animals are harmed as modern, civilized people do." *_

Uh... Yeah....

Rick


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## 90LX_Notch (Apr 2, 2012)

This topic has taken a few interesting turns.  My original post was about how no one ever expresses much of an interest in my engines. I have pictures on my phone of engines in different stages of machining that I try to show people when I talk about our hobby. Not many are interested. Which brings us back to being on the fringe.

Since it came up, how do you promote something that people don't seem overly interested in? Forget the costs or mentoring. If they don't see the cool factor in making a working engine, how would you get them involved in the hobby? Obviously, something like Steve's "Little Demon" V8 will get people's attention. But, we are not all at that build level. (But I am working my way there. Step by step.)


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## Maryak (Apr 2, 2012)

I guess every hobby, sport, pastime etc. is the fringe to those who have no interest in it.

For those of us who were/are professionally trained and who worked/work in mechanical engineering the phrase "Busman's Holiday" springs to mind.

The glazed looks we get are probably equal to the glazed looks we give to those with pastimes in which we have no interest.

Best Regards
Bob


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## JorgensenSteam (Apr 2, 2012)

The younger generation seems to have been ruined on video games, iphones, and the internet.

When I was a kid, we did not have a working TV (tubes always burnt out), and the president's proposal of sending a man to the moon and returning him safely seemed like a wonderful idea, but a fairy tale for sure.

Many of my best toys were made from sticks of wood, baling wire, tin cans, cardboard boxes, and anything else we could scrounge up and tie together.

Imagination was the key then.
With the information overload from the internet, there is no hope for imagination, it all comes from the internet and movies now.

How do you get young people interested in building engines?
Take away their cell phone, electronic games, internet, computers, TV's, etc. and put them in a garage with some metal and machine tools.

Walla...


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## GWRdriver (Apr 2, 2012)

90LX_Notch  said:
			
		

> This . . . has taken a few interesting turns.


Let me throw another turn at you . . . If we would all let go of the need to have someone else validate us, that is recognize, understand, praise, value, etc, what we do, then the whole notion of "being" anything (such as a fringe element) goes away. What you ask when you want someone to recognize and admire what you do is ask for validation, for them to tell you you are doing the right thing and doing it well. The problem with external validation is that first, in the end you are the one who decides for yourself if you are doing the right thing, you decide if you are "fringe" or not, and beyond that no one is obligated to provide you with validation, so as often as not the quest for external validation only leads to frustration and disappointment. Kind of like you are feeling now.

Now having said all that gobbledy-gook, do we all from time to time want and need to be appreciated, validated, for special skills and accomplishments and what we have chosen to do? Yes of course. The problem is, it may not come and the only option is to pat yourself on the back and take silent satisfaction in what you've done.

I would prefer not to call ourselves a fringe group, or something similar, rather I often refer to model engineering and what we do as a "*highly specialize technical pursuit*" which is exactly what it is and that being the case not everyone, in fact a relatively small percentile, in the grand scheme of things are capable of it. The disinterest and diversion some of you see (which I experience regularly) isn't actually disinterest . . . it's that they have no clue what you are doing and the skills required, and rather than admit that although educated, skilled, and accomplished in other areas, in this area they are entirely clueless and incapable and can't bring themselves to admit it.

I do agree that as the throw-away mentality becomes more pervasive there will be less and less understanding of what we do and why.


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## gmac (Apr 2, 2012)

My view is a little different - I figure the right people wander in and hang around. The wrong one's quickly disappear. With a lot of my hobbies/interests I've seen so much ruined by the desire to promote/expand/popularize and suddenly people are showing up to be fashionable/be seen with the right crowd/make a profit etc. Those passionate about the subject end up having to go farther into the woods and build their own fort (remember when kids built those) :big:. Just pulling the cat's wiskers guys ;D

P.S. this is a great fort!

Cheers Garry


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## steamer (Apr 2, 2012)

Ruthie





			
				GWRdriver  said:
			
		

> Let me throw another turn at you . . . If we would all let go of the need to have someone else validate us, that is recognize, understand, praise, value, etc, what we do, then the whole notion of "being" anything (such as a fringe element) goes away. What you ask when you want someone to recognize and admire what you do is ask for validation, for them to tell you you are doing the right thing and doing it well. The problem with external validation is that first, in the end you are the one who decides for yourself if you are doing the right thing, you decide if you are "fringe" or not, and beyond that no one is obligated to provide you with validation, so as often as not the quest for external validation only leads to frustration disappointment. Kind of like you are feeling now.
> 
> Now having said all that gobbledy-gook, do we all from time to time want and need to be appreciated, validated, for special skills and accomplishments and what we have chosen to do? Yes of course. The problem is, it may not come and the only option is to pat yourself on the back and take silent satisfaction in what you've done.
> 
> I would prefer not to call ourselves a fringe group, or something similar, rather I often refer to model engineering and what we do as a "*highly specialize technical pursuit*" which is exactly what it is and that being the case not everyone, in fact a relatively small percentile, in the grand scheme of things are capable of it. The disinterest and diversion some of you see (which I experience regularly) isn't actually disinterest . . . it's that they have no clue what you are doing and the skills required, and rather than admit that although educated, skilled, and accomplished in other areas, in this area they are entirely clueless and incapable!





Truth!


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## panofish (Apr 2, 2012)

Machinists, Woodworkers, craftsmen, mechanics, do it yourselfers... 
all are decreasing in this age of A.D.D., instant gratification, technology dependent... yet mechanically inept period.

Most people I know can't fix a leaky faucet, much less craft something.
There are still many mechanically inclined folks out there... it's just that the numbers are shrinking relative to decades past.

Thank goodness for the internet, because I don't have anyone in my circles that shares my passions... or do I... I live near Grand Blanc, Michigan BTW.


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## 90LX_Notch (Apr 2, 2012)

GWRdriver- You are correct to a point. But I want to share my passion for this hobby. I love it so much and it sucks that I can't find like minded people around me. The guys around here are into drinking beer and watching sports; that's about it. The fringe notion is that what we do is so far removed from people's scope that they can't appreciate it. Yet they are amazed at a guy who can do something with a ball on a TV screen.


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## Captain Jerry (Apr 2, 2012)

I can usually find something to talk about with anyone. I love fishing and that covers a lot of people. I used to play golf and that works with some. Cooking and eating is almost universal so with those few topics I can get around most parties. But if I want to be left alone to contemplate my glass of (gin,bourbon,scotch) its easy to say something like "I was at the scrapyard this morning and .............."

Jerry


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## Foozer (Apr 3, 2012)

"If we would all let go of the need to have someone else validate us,"

Nothing gets the "Bride" out of my hair quicker than holding up some piece of turned metal, and with ear to ear grin say "Look what I can Do!"

Validation is a wonderful thing

Robert


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## steamer (Apr 3, 2012)

I gotta say I agree with you GMAC.  We just need to do what we need to do....the right flock with congregate eventually.

Dave


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## Ken I (Apr 3, 2012)

Maryak  said:
			
		

> I guess every hobby, sport, pastime etc. is the fringe to those who have no interest in it.



Minority perhaps ?...

I get much the same thing as most of my hobbies are "fringe"

I restore old jukeboxes and valve amplifiers - you take a valve amp into a modern electronics shop and they wave a crucifix at you and scatter garlic as you are ushered out - dismissed as a dangerous nut ("Theres over 600VDC in there - it can kill you you know !"

I think that might also have something to do with it - we have become so safety conscious (no problem with that) that "dangerous" hobbies like operating "heavy machinery" and working with high voltages are just not something that one should do for recreational purposes.

Besides it looks like "work".

So instead they climb mountains, jump out of aeroplanes etc. etc.

Much safer.

Ken


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## oilmac (Apr 3, 2012)

If this is The Fringe, Bring it on ! Nowadays i have folk all around me, who in this day & age are totally de-skilled, Many homes i know do not even have a screwdriver or a hammer, come to think on it many folks could not "Hammer a nail into a loaf of bread if they tried" 
 Gone by and large is the era of self sufficiency As well as that has gone the heavy engineering instinct which made the western world countries unique This was lost due to todays worship at the shrine of mammon

 Saying all that the world would be a very boring place if every one was only interested in metal bashing, It takes all sorts, Although how i miss folks i could look up to many years ago, like my old technical drawing teacher Mr Brown, &the other many craftsmen i have acquainted in my three score &ten + years on earth

 My workshop is my peaceful retreat Now where did i put my screwdriver ? ???


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## Foozer (Apr 3, 2012)

If this is The Fringe, 
Subject got me to take my little Lamina Flow engine over to a Buds house.
Requires no air or Steam so is good to do a "Show and Tell"

My "Treasure" apparently is but another's "ain't that cute" you spent how much on tools to make that? why thats Brew money buddy.
Course his kids thought it was fascinating, they couldn't figure out how it works.

Kids are the ones to get involved

Robert


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## Blue_Rock (Apr 4, 2012)

Interesting questions and observations Notch. I get what you are saying about wanting to share your passion for your hobby but I suppose that home model engine machining is very much a niche pursuit. I guess the majority of people struggle to understand how machines work and also dont have much of an interest in mechanical devices as long as the car and lawn mower work then all is good.

Im 50 years old and when I was a kid, it was little different than today regarding interest in mechanical oriented hobbies. Most kids did not have an interest in any of my hobbies, such as metal and woodwork, they would rather hang out, chase girls, play sport etc.

Like you, the majority of my friends and acquaintances are not at all interested in my hobby, they would rather talk sport, have a few drinks or shoot the breeze if not all at the same time.

So I suppose not much has changed as they have aged, except that there is maybe a bit less doing and a bit more watching and talking.

A very positive thing that has happened over the intervening years is the advent of the Internet that has facilitated the growth places like ours where new communities can flourish. Where like-minded people can hang out, share experiences and show their stuff to those who will appreciate it.

If you are lucky enough to have a model engineers club in your region, then I suppose that could be a way to meet like-minded people and talk about machines, have a few drinks or shoot the breeze


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## ConductorX (Apr 4, 2012)

I have always been mechanical. My first jobs were always related to mechanical things. I worked in a plastic bottle plant keeping the machines running making milk bottles and bleach bottles. I worked as a compressor operator, then mechanic (5000 HP compressor with 9 throws). Later I learned the secrets of keeping the magic smoke in wires and pneumatic instruments. 

I have several friends that don't have any kind of hobby or interest other than the next TV show or sporting event. I feel it is thier loss not mine. I am always learning and always exploring new things. That is how I ended up here looking for new challenges. 

I may never achieve the creation of the beautiful engines that are done here but I am sure I will learn something new.

"G"


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## Dave G (Apr 4, 2012)

Fringe?   Different, absolutely. In the last 2 months I have fixed both the washing machine and the clothes dryer after they both refused to do their job. Both fixes were minor and the machines work fine now. On both instances, my better half thought it was an opportunity to add some debt to the credit card and some pretty new appliances to the home. Well Cheapo Dave, as I'm known to my wifes coworkers, put a stop to that. 

I think it has something to do with accomplishments. I get a kick out of fixing something that others would have scrapped and returning it to usefullness. This is something I have done since childhood. My father would drag anything home for me to fix that he could get for free. I owe him a great deal for seeing this in me as a youngster and for channeling my talents. Plus he didn't ever have to buy a lawnmower. We always had a spare or 2. 

I received a Tool&Die apprenticeship at 19 yrs old and was thrown into a world of individuals that had more knowledge than I could absorb. I worked with guys that had built top fuel dragsters, sextants, telescopes, etc. A challenge was greated with eagerness just for the learning experience by most. 

It disheartens me to see that people don't take an interest in mechanical things anymore. When people ask me how I got to know so much, I just tell them I pay attention and leave it at that. I once had an older gentleman tell me the radial engine I had on display on my table at an engine show couldn't have been made by me, it just wasn't possible in his mind that an individual in his garage could do something like that. I just laughed and he went on his way. I have also met some very interesting and great people while displaying my engines so all is not lost. 

My motivation for displaying my engines is to generate some interest in the mechanical trades for the younger generation. A few years ago I had a fellow who owns his own machine shop tell me that the reason that he choose the carrer path that he did was because when he was a teenager and was into fast cars as I was at the time also, and he used to hang around my shop that he always wanted to do the things I could do. 

You probably won't reach everybody, in fact you might not reach many, but if you reach that one person and spark that interest then it has all been worthwhile. I will continue to display my engines and fix whatever comes my way as that is who I am, Cheapo Dave


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## Captain Jerry (Apr 4, 2012)

I know I'm not the oldest guy on here so maybe some of you remember the shortages of WWII. Anything that broke, had to be fixed. All scrap metal had already gone to the war effort, so something to fix it with had to be taken from something else. 

My dad was not an engineer by trade or training but he kept things working. I remember him saying "The guy that made this thing isn't any smarter than me." One thing that I learned from him at the time is that most things don't really need all the screws that are in them. If he needed a screw to fix something, he could find one doing a less important job and re-assign it.

I knew I had gained some measure of respect when he let me pull apart the engine of his 1953 Olds Rocket 88 to remove the hydraulic lifters and replace the two bad ones. He could afford to take it to the shop but it was summer and I was out of school. I was 16 yrs old and the car had to be running in two days for his turn in the car pool. I had it running in plenty of time and he never even asked me if I had any problems.

Genetics are a bit of a crap shoot but I think I scored pretty good.

Jerry


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## Sshire (Apr 4, 2012)

I sent a few pictures of my current project (Elmer's 13) to my brother and my nephew. 
My brother's "fringe" activity is bowl turning. (Tried that once; the bowl blank flew off the lathe and whizzed past my head. End of bowl turning). I got an email back with 15 questions about the engine. I sent him the drawings.
My nephew is an engineer with Rockwell. When I ask what he does I get "we blow things up."
He wanted to know how the valve timing works. Sent him the drawings also. Apparently not much got done at Rockwell the next day because his team was fascinated by the whole concept of small engines. They had no idea that people do this. Might have hooked a whole group of people on our "fringe" activities. 
Just lucky I guess.

Best
Stan


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## don-tucker (Apr 5, 2012)

I can relate to all that has been said,someone in work said to me" what's so good about making things" needless to say he worked in the office,told him if we were not making things he wouldn't have a job.
There are very few who take an interest in what I do,and I grab anyone who dares to even mention engineering,I have a friend who is a model engineer and my older brother ,who taught me all I know and that is it really,except this wonderfull forum.
This hobby has made me want to take apart and repair anything that half needs attending to,the down side is that my conversation is very limited,as you can probably tell.
Don


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## Tin Falcon (Apr 5, 2012)

Jerry I am inspired by your story. I have never been one to dive deep into auto repair. starters alertanors brakes yes. enginine work not as much. My son broke the timing belt on his truck . He works with me full time and tore into it evenings and finished on saterday. 
Tin


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## Ken I (Apr 5, 2012)

don-tucker  said:
			
		

> This hobby has made me want to take apart and repair anything



I particularly enjoy repairing "sealed units" - generally gets the comment "how did you do that, its a sealed unit !"

My answer is invariably "What man can put together, he can render asunder."

The sermon usually ends there with a glazed over look of bovine indifference.

Ahh well.

Ken


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## steamer (Apr 5, 2012)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Jerry I am inspired by your story. I have never been one to dive deep into auto repair. starters alertanors brakes yes. enginine work not as much. My son broke the timing belt on his truck . He works with me full time and tore into it evenings and finished on saterday.
> Tin



Hey Tin,
Yes it's very inspiring....I was always amazed at how my Dad could tear apart and rebuild anything automotive...and I have done some fairly major work on a long line of clunker cars....however, it'll wear off...and there is usually a "terminal event" that does it!  My event was putting a head gasket on Dodge Omni on the sidewalk on a rough street in Worcester Mass, in January when it was about 5 below zero, and 12" of snow on the ground...The towing cost was more than I could afford.

The novelty wore off!....I can remember this now 25 years on like it was yesterday.....and it makes me shudder!

My auto repairs now are just a phone call away!... 8)  Hello Larry?..... :big:
The best news is Larry's son is taking over his business.... ;D


Dave


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## Brass_Machine (Apr 5, 2012)

Sshire  said:
			
		

> I sent a few pictures of my current project (Elmer's 13) to my brother and my nephew.
> My brother's "fringe" activity is bowl turning. (Tried that once; the bowl blank flew off the lathe and whizzed past my head. End of bowl turning). I got an email back with 15 questions about the engine. I sent him the drawings.
> My nephew is an engineer with Rockwell. When I ask what he does I get "we blow things up."
> He wanted to know how the valve timing works. Sent him the drawings also. Apparently not much got done at Rockwell the next day because his team was fascinated by the whole concept of small engines. They had no idea that people do this. Might have hooked a whole group of people on our "fringe" activities.
> ...



I gave my brother in-law one of Elmer's engines. It sits on his desk at work... he works with a bunch of engineers. Same story, the day he brought it in, nothing got done. When they are in his office, it is always in someones hands.

Ha!

Eric


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## Tin Falcon (Apr 5, 2012)

Maybe I have a stubborn streak. A couple of years ago probably in July on a Friday afternoon I was ready to leave work and head home. All my co workers had left the office/shop. I turn the key and nada. no work no start. I could have borrowed a work vehicle to get home .I could have had the car towed , my insurance covers it but no . I tear out the starter borrow a work van to run and buy a new one and put the new one in in the parking lot. 
then a while back my wife tells me about a friend whos car will not start . It it is the church parking lot . Sunday of a three day weekend my son and I do another parking lot fix. 
A couple of weeks ago my son and out changed out the radiator on my car. 
Tin


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## zeeprogrammer (Apr 5, 2012)

Those who don't understand...provide the opportunity for us to teach and help.

Many of those not interested in our hobby have hobbies we're not interested in.
Those people are in other fringes.

Vive la Fringe!

Hmmm...makes me think about spending an hour or so at an elementary school.
Take an engine and some tools.
Influence them when they're young.

Yeah...that's what happened to us.


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## Dave G (Apr 5, 2012)

I think Zeeprogrammers right. Influencing when young is of the utmost importance. Just be careful, I grew up near a major east/west road that led to a vocational school. The school covered 3 counties and most of the students drove to school. This was in the late sixties and early seventies and everyone had a musclecar it seemed in those days. On any given day before and after school they would stop at the railroad crossing behind our house and pair up. I can remember those days like they were yesterday. Loud exhaust, screeching tires and power shifts. Dad would curse them everytime but I loved it, I think dad knew I loved every second of it and he tried hard to keep me from fast cars with no success. 

My first engine was a West Bend 2 stroke lawnmower engine. I was probably around 10 yrs old or so and my dad and I were tromping around an old scrap yard one day and I found a stack of brand new mowers that were being scrapped. I don't remember how much they cost but 4 mowers followed me home that day. The exhaust had no muffler and exited below the mower deck. Well without the mower deck attached these things were loud. I lost track of where those engines got to over the years and they were just a distant memory of all the fun they brought me until 2 yrs ago. I was at an engine show and found an engine just like the ones I used to have and once again I had another West Bend to have fun with. I will be saving this one for a grandson. It will come with hearing protection though. 

As I look back at my youth, I have fond memories of the grownups that would take the time to help me with whatever I was working on at the time. A father, neighbor, father's friends. Other people have memories of playing ball in their youth, I remember all the lawnmowers, rototillers, go karts, bicycles that I fixed. My parents did force me to play baseball one summer though and I embarressed them so badly that they never again mentioned ball sports to me. 

I think when we share our hobby with people and especially the young ones we unknowingly become mentors, someone that is looked up to without knowing it. I don't know how many of the people I looked up to as a lad knew how much they influenced me but they did and in a big way. No, we won't reach everyone with our art but the ones we do reach will never forget it and it may enrich their life in ways that you will never know. Dave


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## cfellows (Apr 6, 2012)

Dave G  said:
			
		

> Fringe?  Different, absolutely. In the last 2 months I have fixed both the washing machine and the clothes dryer after they both refused to do their job. Both fixes were minor and the machines work fine now. On both instances, my better half thought it was an opportunity to add some debt to the credit card and some pretty new appliances to the home. Well Cheapo Dave, as I'm known to my wifes coworkers, put a stop to that.
> 
> ... Stuff Deleted



Dave, my story is just the opposite of yours. My wife is the cheapskate and is always asking me to fix things. I'm the one who says, "Why don't you just go buy a new one, I have other things I'd rather be doing!" Every time one of the grand kids breaks a toy, she'll drag it home and get me to fix it. For a long time, she was volunteering me to build and fix things for her friends, but I managed to put a stop to that! 

I have to admit, I do get a kick out of seeing the big grin on her face when I magically manage to bring something back to life with little or no expense! 

Chuck


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## sunworksco (Apr 6, 2012)

I have an unusual but happy situation with my fiancé.
She wants to use my shop tools and help me build projects.
Her entire family members are artisans , so it is in her blood.


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## panofish (Apr 6, 2012)

giovanni  said:
			
		

> I have an unusual but happy situation with my fiancé.
> She wants to use my shop tools and help me build projects.
> Her entire family members are artisans , so it is in her blood.



wow, sounds like a dream come true to a fellow machinist.


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## Maryak (Apr 6, 2012)

Tin,

I have some knuckle busting recollections of fixing, (with my dad), my own auto not so mobile mistakes to fixing with my son his auto not so mobile mistakes...........must be in the genes. :

Best Regards
Bob


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## Tin Falcon (Apr 6, 2012)

My wife is pretty understanding of my hobby, the day I purchased my South bend 9" she is actually the one suggesting we take a drive to the tool dealers . She actually spotted the lathe before i did and helped me select it. 
she attends engine shows and helps explain our creations. 
I have gotten more than a few strange looks about the pink Corian heart shaped wobbler on my display. Kind of feminine isn't it? comments. Then I explain that it was my wife's engine. She came up with the idea we corroborated on the design and she made most of the parts with help and guidance . I ask them how many wives get in the shop and make there own engine? then the tune changes. 

My son also has his own wobbler. He an I went to a high school in Pennsylvania a couple years ago and set up a display in the schools machine shop. the purpose was to help the instructor promote interest in the machining course. 
for those who have not seen Rosey.






Tin


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