# Tig Welder



## 1hand (Dec 5, 2011)

Hello All,

I looking to pick some of you tig welding pros out there. As some of you know I've been working on a prosthetic wrist and tools over the last few years. I have my quick change wrist right where I want it, but my wrenches need a little help. I've been milling a slot in an aluminium blank and inserting the tool, then using 2 set screws to hold the wrench in the holder. What I've found out in the last 2 weeks as working as a mechanic for 10hrs a day, using these wrenches exclusively, is that they loosen up after a bit and move some.






What I want to do is get a way from the aluminium blank and use a stainless steel bolt tig welded to the wrench.

Question is what kind of tig welder would I need for this? Could I get away with one that operates on 110volt?
What sort of gas would I need? 

Matt


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## jslocomb (Dec 5, 2011)

You might get away with a little 110 volt dc tig. You might have to pre-heat a little. Argon would be my gas of choice.

All that said .... a plain ole buzz box and stainless rod would work just fine.


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## Maryak (Dec 6, 2011)

If you just want to glue them together MMA will do the job.

If you want a slick no mess, no splatter charlie finish then TIG and the gas is Argon which in Oz is pretty pricy.

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob


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## ShedBoy (Dec 6, 2011)

If you don't have a tig already Weldall rods will be the cheapest and easiest to get the job done. Really good for joining dissimilar metals and can be made to look quite pretty with no grinding. Google Weldall Rods you will find them nearby.

Brock


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## shred (Dec 6, 2011)

I got one of the little DC-only TIGs a month or so ago. After going through 2 40 cu-ft tanks of Argon putting down practice beads and welding rough stuff together I'm slowly getting the hang of it-- it's not a quick-learning thing. I have to crank mine pretty much all the way up (140 amps) to do anything useful with 3/16 or 1/4" steel plate. I don't know if the 110v units will go that high. Are you planning to make a TIG-torch-hand attachment? TIG is pretty much two-hands-and-foot type operation (the cheap TIGs don't all come with foot pedals, but have a button on the torch or lift-start).


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## 1hand (Dec 6, 2011)

shred  said:
			
		

> I got one of the little DC-only TIGs a month or so ago. After going through 2 40 cu-ft tanks of Argon putting down practice beads and welding rough stuff together I'm slowly getting the hang of it-- it's not a quick-learning thing. I have to crank mine pretty much all the way up (140 amps) to do anything useful with 3/16 or 1/4" steel plate. I don't know if the 110v units will go that high. Are you planning to make a TIG-torch-hand attachment? TIG is pretty much two-hands-and-foot type operation (the cheap TIGs don't all come with foot pedals, but have a button on the torch or lift-start).



Ya I talked to a salesman today at work bout my deal. He did the math on the materials I'll be working with and I need something up around 200 to 225 amps to get done what I want. Might be able to get by with a 175, but will have to bevel and preheat. So that means getting a 220v plug-in in the shop. I have laid down well over a pallet or 2 of 40# spools of wire MIG welding in the last 20 years, but only puddled a couple stainless tubes together with TIG, and didn't use fill rod. I'm right handed, so the torch will go there. I figure I'll run the rod out of my clamping hook on the left. It will be a learning experience for sure. 

I would rather just MIG them together, but its such a small area of a work envelope, that on the smaller wrenches the MIG nozzle is twice as wide as the area being welded. That and they need to be pretty for my customers.


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## aheg1220 (Dec 6, 2011)

JB-Weld or other metal epoxies are always an option. Same with brazing.


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## RonGinger (Dec 6, 2011)

> As some of you know I've been working on a prosthetic wrist and tools over the last few years.



Would you care to elaborate some on this? From what I can figure you have been developing a prosthetic had for yourself. This just amazes me, and Id like to understand how you are doing it, what control you have with it, etc.

I hope this is not to personal a question, but It really amazes me that you re doing this. Maybe you could open a topic on this?


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## steamer (Dec 6, 2011)

I think thats a great idea Ron, if Matt is willing.  We'll leave that up to you Matt as long as Marv and Chuck don't mind.

Dave


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## 1hand (Dec 6, 2011)

Hey thanks guys!

Here Ron there is bits and pieces of the story through out this thread
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=7936.0

A few different attachment vids




http://s1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd366/midwestprocad/?action=view&current=DSCN1325.mp4
If you click on albums off the video site you can see other pics.

Necessity is the mother of all invention
Matt ;D


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## jonesie (Dec 7, 2011)

matt my hat is off to you for the idea and work. i would be careful that the welds do not become to hard and brittle, causing one to break off,causing further injury.again nice work and good luck. jonesie


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## Entropy455 (Dec 7, 2011)

TIG welding does not require as much current as MIG welding.

To TIG weld a stainless steel bolt to a carbon steel wrench, youll likely need somewhere between 110 and 140 amps current (DC Electrode Negative), with 2% throated tungsten electrode. Youll need 100% argon shielding gas, set for about 25-CFH (depending on the cup-size). The filler electrode should be 309L, which is specifically designed for joining carbon steels to austenitic stainless steels.

Make sure that you have proper ventilation, as you do not want to breathe chromium vapors.

Clean parts with soap and water prior to welding. Do not use spray cleaners.


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## velocette (Dec 7, 2011)

Hi this is my two pennies worth on welding stainless to Carbon-chrom vanadium steels 

GRIND OFF ANY CHROMIUM PLATING IN THE WELD AREA This can lead to an EXTREMELY BRITTLE weld

Preheat and slow cooling will improve ductility 

Stainless is very pretty looking but can suffer from 'Galling " on threads with constant use.

I make the assumption that you will fabricate new adapters for this project 

Quote from Self (((Assumption is the Mother of all Misunderstanding)))

An alternative would be to use a "Chromium Vanadium Tool Steel" it can be machined relatively easily 

Another option is to use a "Flux Coated Silver Brazing Rod" suitable for "Stainless Steel" You local welding supplier would be the best adviser on this as terminology for this process varies widely 

My hat goes of to you Matt this post is an inspiration to us all with your "Can Do" attitude to getting things done 

Hoping to be of some use Eric


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## 1hand (Dec 7, 2011)

Entropy455  said:
			
		

> TIG welding does not require as much current as MIG welding.
> 
> To TIG weld a stainless steel bolt to a carbon steel wrench, youll likely need somewhere between 110 and 140 amps current (DC Electrode Negative), with 2% throated tungsten electrode. Youll need 100% argon shielding gas, set for about 25-CFH (depending on the cup-size). The filler electrode should be 309L, which is specifically designed for joining carbon steels to austenitic stainless steels.
> 
> ...



Your thinking I can get away with a 150amp 110v unit?


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## 1hand (Dec 7, 2011)

velocette  said:
			
		

> Hi this is my two pennies worth on welding stainless to Carbon-chrom vanadium steels
> 
> GRIND OFF ANY CHROMIUM PLATING IN THE WELD AREA This can lead to an EXTREMELY BRITTLE weld
> 
> ...



Thanks Eric,

The wrench is cut off, then it will be welded on top on of a 1/2-20 X 1/2" long SS bolt. Then this is threaded into a SS bushing that goes in and out of my Quick change wrist end. So once the tool is threaded into the bushing, that's it for using them threads. A one time deal. Hope this makes sense.

Matt


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## 1hand (Dec 7, 2011)

jonesie  said:
			
		

> matt my hat is off to you for the idea and work. i would be careful that the welds do not become to hard and brittle, causing one to break off,causing further injury.again nice work and good luck. jonesie



Thanks Bud!


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## 1hand (Dec 7, 2011)

velocette  said:
			
		

> Hi this is my two pennies worth on welding stainless to Carbon-chrom vanadium steels
> 
> GRIND OFF ANY CHROMIUM PLATING IN THE WELD AREA This can lead to an EXTREMELY BRITTLE weld
> 
> ...



Preheat both bolt and wrench? How hot? Will my propane turbo torch heat enough for this? Weld it when its hot then cool?


Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 7, 2011)

Matt a turbu torch would be fine but an old oven is a wonderful thing . pre heat to about 400 degrees do the weld and then pop the next one out of the oven. 
post heat will relieve streses as well. 
tin


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## Entropy455 (Dec 7, 2011)

Chrome Vanadium is often classified as medium carbon tool steel (0.55 to 0.65% carbon content). It is heat treatable, and can achieve a hardness of between 35 and 59 on the Rockwell C-scale, depending on temper. It is a great steel for making wrenches.

Chrome Vanadium steel contains small amounts of chromium (0.80 to 1.1 percent), which is similar to that of typical chrome-molly steels. If need to weld Chrome Vanadium steel to itself, or to ordinary mild steel, 70S, 80S or 100S filler material will work fine.

The chrome content of typical 304 stainless however is between 18 and 20 percent. The problem here is that if you attempt to weld 304 stainless steel to Chrome Vanadium steel using 70S filler rod, the chromium will migrate out of the 304 and into both the 70S' lattice structure, and also into the Chrome Vanadium's lattice structure. This causes the stainless to lose appreciable strength. It will be brittle, and very susceptible to corrosion along the heat affected zone.

To combat this, you use 309L filler rod, which has over 35% chromium, and 14% nickel. The high nickel content, together with the excessively high chromium content, will work to stabilize the 304 base material during welding operations. It saturates the weld joint with high levels of chromium, which is required for successfully welding stainless steels to carbon steels.

Thus if you're welding a Chrome Vanadium wrench to a regular steel fastener, with 70S filler material, you would certainly want to remove the chrome plating to prevent weld contamination. However when joining a 304 bolt (20% chromium), using 309L filler rod (that contains over 35% chromium), Im not sure that a thin layer of chrome on the wrench is going to cause problems.

I suppose it could weaken the toe of the weld. . . .? I would recommend taking the Pepsi Challenge. Weld a 304 bolt to one side of a Chrome Vanadium wrench with 309L rod, without removing the chrome plating - then weld a 304 bolt to the other side with 309L rod, with the chrome plating ground away. Then clamp the wrench in a vise, and beat the crap out of it with a 5 pound hammer. If the weld joint with the chrome plating fails first, then you know to remove the chrome before welding. Im thinking you will not see an appreciable difference in strength, if any difference at all.

If the wrench was electroplated in copper and/or zinc prior to chroming, all bets are off. . . .


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## 1hand (Dec 7, 2011)

The bolts I have are 18-8, if that makes a difference.

You think a 150amp 110v unit will work if I do a small bevel on the wrench and pre heat?


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 7, 2011)

Matt: In my area some of the welding supply houses have a demo try before you buy area. If you take a few pieces in You should be able to try some equipment. the other option is local vo tech night school.
Tin


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## 1hand (Dec 7, 2011)

I guess a question I have is... does a $750 200 amp welder on 110 volt welder set at 175amp weld the same as a $2500 225amp 220v welder set at 175amp? I understand that I may only have a 20% duty cycle with the $750 one, but really my welds are only going to be 3/4" long at the most.

Matt


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## Entropy455 (Dec 7, 2011)

Question  is there a reason you are leaning towards 110 volt machine? Do you not have 240 volts available in your shop? If you have a breaker panel, with two open spaces - a short run of 6-2 wire with a 50-amp breaker and outlet will run virtually all smaller 240-volt MIG, TIG, SMAW, etc, welding machines. The larger machines (over 50 amperes supply current) are usually hard-wired - unless you purchase very expensive high-amperage industrial outlets and plugs.

I would not recommend purchasing any type of 110 volt welding machine. I own a 110 volt MIG welder, and I cant stand it. It is only good for welding thin sheet metal. If you try and accomplish a multi-pass weld on thicker steel, the joints are cold, and they fail when stressed. There simply is not enough heat for adequate penetration. I am probably going to sell my 110 volt MIG, and purchase a Lincoln 255XT, and set it up for dual-shield.

My TIG welder is a Lincoln 275. It will crank out 2 to 340 amps. It requires a 150-amp 240-volt breaker. For the majority of mild steel welding, I set the upper current limit on the machine to about 180 amperes, and I will run as low as 60 amps for thin stuff, up to 150 amps for thicker stuff. You must remember that TIG is not a high-penetration process. Its a slow process, which requires multiple and multiple of passes for any type of significant weld buildup. If you try to make a large weld beads (the size of US dimes) on mild steel with a TIG torch, the arc will boil out and spatter the metal  thus its really only good for small and delicate low-production work. For TIG welding aluminum, I normally run between 220 and 250 amperes. I have only occasionally dipped into the 300 amp range of the machine, when welding cast aluminum. If you desire to weld aluminum, you need a TIG welder that will do AC also, and is capable of at least 250 amperes. If you go smaller, you will be disappointed.

That being said  IF you only desire to weld steel and/or stainless steel (DC only, which means no aluminum), the new solid-state TIG welders that run on 110-volt will accomplish the task nicely.


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## 1hand (Dec 7, 2011)

No I don't have a 220 plugin in my shop. My shop is in the basement next to our breaker box and a window, but figure I better weld out in the garage which would be a little more PITA to get a 220 plugin to. If I have any heavy welding to do I just take it to work and do it there. I need a welder at home just for this prosthetic wrench deal.

Not a name brand, but what do you think of the #'s on this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Eastwoo...70564139477?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item56475809d5


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## Entropy455 (Dec 8, 2011)

I have never heard of the Eastwood brand - - - ever. . . 

I've met some of the best welders in the word. The only TIG machines they use are Miller and Lincoln. Miller and Lincoln are both top-notch brands, and both companies stand by their products. Replacement parts are readily available, and reasonably priced.

If I were in your shoes, I would keep an eye on craigslist for a used Miller or Lincoln.

http://www.weldingmart.com/maxstar-150-stl.html

Or if you want to purchase new, I would recommend the above machine over the Eastwood.

In answering your earlier question, 18-8 stainless is very similar to 304 stainless  with regard to chemical makeup, and welding properties. They are both austenitic stainless steel.


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## S3MIH3MI (Dec 8, 2011)

1hand  said:
			
		

> No I don't have a 220 plugin in my shop. My shop is in the basement next to our breaker box and a window, but figure I better weld out in the garage which would be a little more PITA to get a 220 plugin to. If I have any heavy welding to do I just take it to work and do it there. I need a welder at home just for this prosthetic wrench deal.
> 
> Not a name brand, but what do you think of the #'s on this one?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Eastwoo...70564139477?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item56475809d5



I weld in my basement shop. Mig welding for the last 5 years and tig welding for over a year. All you need is a vent/fan. Tig welding is very clean compared to mig or any other type of welding.

And before you spend the money on a brand name. Inverter type welders are less then half the size and weight of the standard welders but cost twice as much when it comes to the 2 main brands. Check out Everlast, they are made in china but have a local distributor both in the USA and Canada. They offer a 5 year warranty and great tech support as well as a forum. They will ship to your door Via UPS. 
I have went through 2 of the larger tanks of argon and have had no issues. Mind you the first tank was all practice...LOL

Good luck

Forgot the link. http://www.everlastgenerators.com/


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## S3MIH3MI (Dec 8, 2011)

I was thinking.....
Have you ever thought of adapting an ER16 collet assembly to thread into your swivel mount. If you did something like that, you could then turn almost anything down to 3/8" or less with a 1/2" shoulder. Then modify the collet nut with a ring so you don't need a wrench to change tools.

This guy made his own holder for a lathe.


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## Ken I (Dec 8, 2011)

1010011010 - The mark of the beast in binary ? - a 29A Hex on you sir.

What on earth is S3MIH3MI or is it just arbitary ?

Ken


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## S3MIH3MI (Dec 8, 2011)

Ken I  said:
			
		

> 1010011010 - The mark of the beast in binary ? - a 29A Hex on you sir.
> 
> What on earth is S3MIH3MI or is it just arbitary ?
> 
> Ken



LOL
I was born the 26 day of the 6 month of the 66 th year.
My street address is 1666.

Semi Hemi............ I drive a 2010 1500 dodge with a hemi...lol


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## Ken I (Dec 8, 2011)

O.K. Got it - kinda obvious really. After the binary 666 I thought there might be something to it but couldn't figure it out.

Back on topic - don't ever buy a "lift start" / "scratch start" TIG get the HF start.
I had a lift start and hated it with a passion - I was relieved when it was stolen = then bought HF start.

Ken


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## 1hand (Dec 8, 2011)

Was talking to a guy at work about my dilemma, and he said that his brother has a couple year old Lincoln Precision TIG 185 that he wants to get rid of. So after work I went to look at it, and it has only welded one rear quarter panel on his old GTO that he restored. It still has 2000psi of argon in the first tank that's ever been on it. Comes with a really nice cart that he built with over sized casters and wheels also has storage drawer in the bottom for the foot pedal and cables. This welder is like brand new, no scratches or dings. Would easy pass for a brand new unit. At $600 less than a new Precision 175 without the cart and regulator and 3/4 tank of gas, and a half ass approval from my wife, think I'll be picking it up after work tomorrow. ;D

Matt


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## 1hand (Dec 8, 2011)

S3MIH3MI  said:
			
		

> I was thinking.....
> Have you ever thought of adapting an ER16 collet assembly to thread into your swivel mount. If you did something like that, you could then turn almost anything down to 3/8" or less with a 1/2" shoulder. Then modify the collet nut with a ring so you don't need a wrench to change tools.
> 
> This guy made his own holder for a lathe.



Cool Idea! I retro fit existing Prosthetic quick change tool holders into my wrist. The bushing that threads on to the wrench or what ever tool has a small spring in the end, and when you push the the button on the quick change the tool pops out. I Incorporated this into my wrists because people that already prosthetics out there use this quick change. Now my tools and wrist will work with their existing prosthetics. I figure it didn't pay to reinvent the wheel so to speak. 

Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 9, 2011)

Matt sounds like a good deal on the lincoln. 

If you have a place to work in your basement near a window and your breaker that should be Ideal.
Should be easy to hook up a 220 outlet and a vent hood. 
A range hood from home depot or lows should work fine $60 -70 and if they have a dent/bent one cheaper. 
tin


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## 1hand (Dec 9, 2011)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Matt sounds like a good deal on the lincoln.
> 
> If you have a place to work in your basement near a window and your breaker that should be Ideal.
> Should be easy to hook up a 220 outlet and a vent hood.
> ...



That's a great Idea! Thanks.


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## 1hand (Dec 11, 2011)

Well I was able to go and pick up my welder today ;D











As I said I don't have a 220v plug-in yet in the basement nor the garage. On the way home I remembered that my generator has a 220v plug-in on it. Its only a 5000/6250 watt with a 30amp breaker, but I thought it would be worth a try.






Made an adapter for the plug-in and gave it a try. Set the welder at 140amps attempted my first ever TIG welding try.











At 140 amps the generator grunted a little bit, but it turned the wrench and the bolt bright orange while welding.

Matt


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## Noitoen (Dec 11, 2011)

Is the welder of the inverter type? If so, avoid using a generator. The powerfactor of these machines play havoc on the power line and the generator's electronic regulator thus, generating high voltage spikes that destroy the welder. To run a inverter type welder on a generator this should have at least 3 or 4 times the capacity of the welder.


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## 1hand (Dec 11, 2011)

Noitoen  said:
			
		

> Is the welder of the inverter type? If so, avoid using a generator. The powerfactor of these machines play havoc on the power line and the generator's electronic regulator thus, generating high voltage spikes that destroy the welder. To run a inverter type welder on a generator this should have at least 3 or 4 times the capacity of the welder.



No it is not an inverter type.

Matt


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## Entropy455 (Dec 12, 2011)

Money well spent.

And very nice looking welds for someone just learning to TIG weld.

You will be very happy with that machine.

The only thing left, is to install a breaker and outlet in your basement.

And remember - just because there's very little smoke when TIG welding, doesn't mean that the vapors are safe. You'll want good ventilation. . . .


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## 1hand (Dec 12, 2011)

Entropy455  said:
			
		

> Money well spent.
> 
> And very nice looking welds for someone just learning to TIG weld.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the great information!!!! Had a guy stop tonight and he is going to install a 60amp breaker and run 6-wire out to my garage next week. ;D I'm starting to out grow my basement shop and some day I would like to add a big mill and lathe to the mix, so having 220v out there will be good idea in the long run I think.

Working on a small 36x42 welding table out of some scrap from work, so by the time that's done I should have juice out there also. Ordered filler rod, some consumables, an arc cable/holder, and a auto darkening helmet. "Merry Christmas Me" :big:


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## Ken I (Dec 13, 2011)

Those autodarkening helmets are fast but not lightspeed fast - they protect you from the UV but you still get momentarilly flash blinded in the split second it takes to darken.

You learn to do a slow blink as you strike the arc - when you open your eyes the helmet has darkened.

Just a tip - 2c

Great looking welds & welder by the way.

Ken


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## 1hand (Dec 13, 2011)

Ken I  said:
			
		

> Those autodarkening helmets are fast but not lightspeed fast - they protect you from the UV but you still get momentarilly flash blinded in the split second it takes to darken.
> 
> You learn to do a slow blink as you strike the arc - when you open your eyes the helmet has darkened.
> 
> ...



Thanks Ken,

I have been using one at work since 1991. They are lighting fast now compared to when speed glass first came out back then! Many , many, many rolls of wire looking through one. Maybe that's why I'm half blind now :big:


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## 1hand (Dec 18, 2011)

Here is the "FREE" welding table I made from scrap. Waiting for 4" casters to show up, then a little buff with the wire wheel and a squirt of paint and it will be ready. Still haven't decided on a shelf in it yet. Maybe a rod to hang C-clamps and such.





Matt


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## Omnimill (Dec 18, 2011)

Nice looking TIG unit, I'd love one of those! Great looking first weld Matt. Don't forget to wear a mask when grinding Thoriated electrodes:

http://www.ehow.com/way_5923096_use-welding-rods-containing-thorium.html

Vic.


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## 1hand (Dec 21, 2011)

We got Juice! ;D





Here is my new parts pre-heater. Will go up to 450deg.





Matt


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