# 220V single phase motor install and wiring



## steamer

Hello all,

I am putting a new motor in my VN-12 mill.

2 HP single phase 220 volt.

The old starter wiring and blocks are shot...50+ years old

I am starting pretty much from scratch

The mill uses 220V 4 wire ( L1, L2, N, and ground)

It also has a 120 volt X axis feed motor that I am rewiring the controls for.

I could use the advice from some of you sagged electrical veterans.

I need soup to nuts here.....

The new motor is 7 wire with an internal thermal overload.

Any help would be appreciated!

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

Post a photo of the name plate and any diagram you may have. Sometimes there are wiring diagrams in the peckerhead (little junction box on the motor). The more info the better.


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## steamer

This would be the high voltage side, on the right

7P2 is the brown line and is the thermal overload wire....which appears to be isolated in this application.

I need this broken down for dummies here....so be gentle.... :

Dave

Dave


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## Dan Rowe

Dave,
If you have a 220 4 wire supply the colors should be black red white and green. Which are hot hot neutral and ground in that order. 

The voltage should be 220 between red and black and 120 from red or black to neutral and ground.

The red and black are L1 and L2 sp they go to the high voltage combination which leaves one wire not connected to anything.

The 120 circuit can be made with either red or black and white and green goes to the motor frame.

Is there a motor controller in the circuit or a simple on off switch?

Dan


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## stevehuckss396

I assume the mill has a drum switch for forward and reverse. Does the switch have a similar drawing?

We are off to a pretty good start.


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## steamer

Hi Dan,

I read and understand all you have said.

That part I know....What controls I need to put in between is the tougher nut to solve...no experience here.

Dave


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## steamer

I have a new drum switch which I purchased from MSC.

I don't have anything else to speak of.  ALL NEW!

The drum switch is a ACI CB0170034PL2.

As I see it I need 5 wires coming out of the motor.

I spent some time with a ohm meter on the switch and I can't get it figured out so it works.  What I want ...really...is to have a completely dead motor with the drum switch in the off position ( no hot legs)
I would like to keep it as simple as possible, but I am afraid I need a relay.

I am hoping you guys can set me straight.
I'll try to get a diagram for the drum switch...got to get my son down for the night.....

Dave


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## steamer

Hi Dan,

The mill is reversing, and I very rarely do use it in reverse. I would like to keep that feature.

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

There should be some sort of paperwork with the new switch. See if you can dig it up and i'll check back tomorrow after work and see if I can draw something up if someone hasn't come up with something for you.


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## steamer

Hi Guys...I'll get the diagram after work...Thanks Guys!

Dave


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## jpeter

sounds like the drum switch is for reversing 3-phase.


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## Stan

Your concern about having both legs switched in the OFF position is valid. Many common drum switches only switch one leg when on 240 volt single phase.

With multiple responders (maybe all equally qualified) these threads can become very confused since there may be more than one way to do the wiring correctly.


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## stevehuckss396

Stan  said:
			
		

> Your concern about having both legs switched in the OFF position is valid.



It would only create an unsafe condition when you are working on the power. Most mills have a disconnect switch mounted on the back to disconnect all hot legs when servicing the mill. Aside from the drum switch you should have a service disconnect as well.


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## steamer

Here it is,

Steve, your comments are well stated. I have a plug wired to a wall box currently, as I run both mills with this source.  I simply unplug the mill I don't want and plug in the mill I do.  I am going to buy a clam shell lock out to keep the kids out...( Mostly my son...)

But saying that, as long as the motor is grounded , I should be just fine.

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

let me look at this tomorrow with a clear head and draw something up.


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## steamer

Thanks Steve!

Dave


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## Dan Rowe

Hi Dave,
I got rid of a few of my posts that mostly said what Steve said so all the diagrams are on the same page.

I have never seen that style of diagram so I can not say for sure how it works. It looks like it is a three stage or rotor switch. My take on the first stage is both sets of contacts 1 & 2 and set 3 & 4 are closed in both the REV and FWD positions and open in the off position.

The other two stages are for the reverse function. This is the section that I can not figure and would need a ohm meter logic check for the switch.

The diagram seams to be the standard NEMA terminals which do not quite match your motor. T1 and T2 are the run windings and 8 and 12 are the start windings with a cutout switch at 10.

I would check the ohm readings for contacts 5,6,7 & 8 on stage 2 and contacts 9-12 on stage 3 at all three switch positions to insure that I had a proper understanding of the logic in the diagram.

I hope this helps a bit maybe some one else has seen that type of diagram before.

Dan


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## stevehuckss396

Based on the 2 photos and the fact that you want it wired for high voltage here is what I come up with. This wiring scheme breaks both hot legs BTW. 

Somebody please check me fore I am human. I am 99.995% sure.

Jump 
3 to 5
5 to 7
9 to 11
6 to 10
8 to 12

Hook wire # to terminal #
L2 to 1
T4 to 2
L1 to 3
T1 to 4
T5 to 6
T8 to 8
T2 to 9
T3 to 11


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## steamer

Thanks to All!

The switch is open and I can get to the jumpers....at least it looks like it to me.

I can take a photo and post....I'll do that tonight

Thanks again!

Dave


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## Dan Rowe

Hi Dave,

I do not even know if the switch has jumpers or not but I suspect if jumpers are used they can be moved so the switch can be used for different logic.

I worked out that the x means a closed set of contacts so the ohm meter check should be quick. I attached a .pdf drawing with the contacts drawn in the FWD and REV positions with Steve's method. I jumpered T2 and T3 in the pecker head so only 5 conductors are needed between the switch and the motor.

This site indicates that L2 and T8 is CW and L2 and T5 is CCW so the rotation so rotation needs to be checked.
http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/motor_connection_diagrams.htm

Sorry about the basic first response but you did say soup to nuts explaination.

Dan

Edit: Here is the diagram for the cheeper drum switch in the MSC catalog, now I see that Dave made a good choice.
http://www.industrial-electronics.com/motor_control/3h_Reversing-Motors-Drum-Switch.html 

View attachment DRUM%2520SWITCH%5B1%5D[1].pdf


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## stevehuckss396

How we doing Steamer? Did you get the motor running in both directions?


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## steamer

Hi Steve,

No not yet, I've been working a lot of hours.....by this weekend though!

I want to thank all of you for your help and assistance! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> 
> No not yet, I've been working a lot of hours.....by this weekend though!
> 
> I want to thank all of you for your help and assistance! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
> 
> Dave



You are welcome!


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## Dan Rowe

Hi Dave,

If the switch has jumpers there is no reason to move them. The switch is designed for the purpose you are using it for, we just need to modify the advice to fit the facts.

Dan


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## steamer

Hi Dan,

I'll try to post some pictures tonight of the switch....

Dave


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## steamer

Here ya go...Thankyou for your efforts everyone!.....I'm glad we're all working together to get this accomplished.

Dave


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## Dan Rowe

Hi Dave,
It not quite as easy to tell what terminals are jumpered in the photos because I can not rotate the dang things. If you can verify that the jumpers are the same as the ACI diagram you posted there should be a solution.

As this is a brand new switch if it needs to be modifyed to meet the specs listed in the MSC catalog there should have been documentation with the switch to explain this fact.

Dan


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## steamer

Pat, Dan And Steve,

Thanks you for your support!...I'll try to ohm the thing out and report

Dan, as far as doc's ...what you see is what I got!.... ???Sorry...

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

Pat J  said:
			
		

> check me on this guys



Same thing only easier

Remove Jumper from L2 - 7

Line 1 to Terminal L1
Line 2 to Terminal L2
Wire T1 to Term T1
Wire T4 to Term T2
Wire T5 to Term 6
Wire T8 to Term 10
Wire T2 to Term 7
Wire T3 to Term 11
All other jumpers remain.


Did I Win?

Just double checked and this should do it. OK, somebody check me!!


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## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Same thing only easier
> 
> Remove Jumper from L2 - 7
> 
> Line 1 to Terminal L1
> Line 2 to Terminal L2
> Wire T1 to Term T1
> Wire T4 to Term T2
> Wire T5 to Term 6
> Wire T8 to Term 10
> Wire T2 to Term 7
> Wire T3 to Term 11
> All other jumpers remain.
> 
> 
> Did I Win?





I can assure you all, the person who is winning here is me!

THANKS STEVE!

Dave


I'll ohm it out....Mama's got an errand for Papa to do first....

Dave


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## Dan Rowe

Dave,
Just list the sets of terminals that connected metal strips or jumpers.

I have a hard time with it being a factory defect straight out of the box but it does happen.

Maybe everone has better eyes than me but i can not say for certian that the strips of metal that run vertically from drum to drum are jumpers or not. They might have another purpose and not comnnect the terminals.

I will send my answer tomorrow when the beer fog clears.

Dan


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## stevehuckss396

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Same thing only easier
> 
> Remove Jumper from L2 - 7
> 
> Line 1 to Terminal L1
> Line 2 to Terminal L2
> Wire T1 to Term T1
> Wire T4 to Term T2
> Wire T5 to Term 6
> Wire T8 to Term 10
> Wire T2 to Term 7
> Wire T3 to Term 11
> All other jumpers remain.
> 
> 
> Did I Win?
> 
> Just double checked and this should do it. OK, somebody check me!!


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## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> I'll ohm it out



Ohm Schome, Turn it on you sissy!!!  Hahhahahaha!

I can almost hear Bob Farr's voice right now!!

I don't think that will be necessary. Just remove the jumper, hook every thing up, look at it again to be sure, and then try it.


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## steamer

;D

Ohh don't even go there.... Rof}

It checks out Steve....However, I was wondering

If I tied T8 and T2 together at the peckerhead and route them to 10

I can save a wire and more importantly use the 12/6 cable I already have ;D

( l love using that word in a sentence...Peckerhead....a noun, a verb...Uhummm I digress)

My meter says everything is open with the scheme with the switch in the off position.

I get
L1 to L1
L2 to L2
T1 to T1
T3 to 7
T8/T2 to 10
T5 to 6
T4 to T2






I'm learning new stuff all time!

Dave


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## steamer

Thanks again Guys and a special one to Steve!

You are da man!

Dave


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## steamer

Hi Pat,

third post this thread...in the picture on the motor housing, for high voltage


What am I missing here...???.....Damn just when I thought I understood.


Ohh everything above the top line is the motor....by the way.and it should say T8 not just 8...sorry Mechanical guys shouldn't do wiring....

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> What am I missing here...???.....Damn just when I thought I understood.



T5 and T8 have to be isolated because they get swapped to go in reverse. Follow Pat and tie T2 and T3 together in the pecker head and take them to 7 or 11.


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## steamer

I have a closed circuit between switch terminal 7 and 10 with the selector in forward.....These two are open in "OFF" and "REVERSE".

I think I'm right.........

Dave

Nevermind I got your post......mmmmmm....some noodling to understand is required.....

So Am I just reading the motor incorrectly?  Is the nomenclature refering to the switch terminals and not the motor terminals?

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> I have a closed circuit between switch terminal 7 and 10 with the selector in forward.....These two are open in "OFF" and "REVERSE".
> 
> I think I'm right.........
> 
> Dave



Take a peek at my second drawing in reply #34 and you can see that T2 and T3 are permanently connected on the switch and T8 is off by itself.


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## steamer

Doooh!!

Got it..

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

Pat J  said:
			
		

> In Steve's diagram, the motor terminals are listed at the top and bottom.
> 
> The switch terminals are in the middle, and the switch terminal T1 label should read 2, and the switch is terminal T2 should be labeled 4.



They should be but in the diagram for the switch and the stickers on the switch in the photo's show them labled as I drew them. There is no 1, 2, 3, or 4. I labled them on the drawing the same as they are so there would be no confusion for Dave at hook up time.


Dave, I got to hit the sack. I am more than confident that if you follow the drawing in #34 and tie T2 and T3 together and send them to 7 or 11, you will have a good result. Don't forget to remove that one jumper also.

Cheers! 

Steve


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## steamer

I am confident too Steve....

Thanks to all....I'll hit the sack too.

Dave


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## Dan Rowe

Dave and all,

I am not so willing to abandon the instruction sheet that came with a brand NEW switch and start modifying it. I figure that the engineers that made the switch and drawing know what they are doing.

Anyway after reviewing the photos of the switch Dave posted I could see that terminals 8 & 6 and 12 & 10 were jumpered in photo 2. The third photo shows that L2, 7 and 11 are jumpered. The last photo shows that L1, 5 and 9 are jumpered.

That is exactly what the ACI diagram shows for jumpers. Here is my version of the switch drawn in all 3 positions with the contacts open or closed as in the ACI diagram.






The only other thing shown on the ACI diagram is the main windings connected to T1 and T2 and the Aux. winding is connected to 8 and 12.


I could not locate a motor diagram on the web to explain the terminal markings of a dual voltage capacitor start single phase motor so I checked my school book from the sailor factory. I redrew the drawing and added "peckerhead" as just like Dave it makes me laugh to type it.






Now we have knowledge of the motor terminal markings except for the overload protector.
Here is my answer based on my research of the subject.





Cheers Dan


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## stevehuckss396

Dan

If you look at the nameplate for Steamers motor you will see that L2 should never be hooked to anything except T4 for both forward and reverse. The jumper from L2 to 7 has to come out or you will permanently connect it to T2 and T3 and god knows what else when switched to forward or reverse.

That switch can be modified to work with MANY types of motor when connected properly.


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## Dan Rowe

Steve,
Just as there is more than one way to wire a switch there is more than one way to wire a motor. L1 and L2 are red and black and interchangable.

From Hubert there are two ways to reverse a single phase motor reverse the main windings or reverse the starting windings. In this case the far ends of the main windings are T1 and T4 we can reverse them to reverse the motor or reverse the start windings at T8 and T5.

The motor needs to be checked to see if it agrees with Hubert which is simple T1 and T2 should be half of the main winding and T3 and T4 should be the other half so they should have the exact same resistance. A similar magitude of resistance should be found on T8 and T5 for the start windings. When T3 and T2 are jumpered in the peckerhead the resistance between T1 and T4 should be exactly double the half main winding resistance.

My answer is based on my belief that the motor internals match Fig 5-9. If this is not the case then my answer will not work.
Dan


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## steamer

OK guys,,, I don't mind disagreement....as Pat's tag line stated, I think it makes the synapse's fire a little harder for a little longer...

That said....lets be cool, calm and collected about all this shall we?
I have really enjoyed the team effort thus far. I have found it very rewarding.

Dan, Your efforts are obviously and evidentally generous!, and your convictions are pure no doubt. I thank you very much for your hard effort. That was a lot of drawing,posting, and prose.  I do appreciate it! :bow:

That said, please don't feel singled out, as my following comments are to the general public, not just you.

I personally ohm'd out the diagram that Steve provided, with the jumper removed per his instructions and I agree that his scheme works, and I am satisfied that the switch is completely open with my switch off ,wired to my motor. I will not vouch for any other motor or wiring scheme for anyone else.

I checked all other combinations for shorts or opens that would contradict the diagram provided. I found none.

That said, It is now MY responsibility to VERIFY this via what ever other test deemed required and or prudent to prove that I have a safe work environment for myself. THE RESPONSIBILITY IS NO ONE ELESES.

If anything is wrong from here on in, it's MY problem and no one Else's!

I would further point out to anyone else reading this thread, that this applies to you also. YOU are responsible for YOUR actions regarding wiring motors, hangliding, feeding pigeons or what have you!

Your mileage may vary, professional driver on closed course...yada yada yada. ;D


A warm and sincere Thankyou to Dan, Pat, and Steve, you guys make this such a great forum, and why I come here just about everyday.


Sincerely,

Steamer


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## Stan

Here is my quote from Post #11

With multiple responders (maybe all equally qualified) these threads can become very confused since there may be more than one way to do the wiring correctly.


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## Maryak

Thanks Pat J :bow: :bow:

"Let's Be CAREFUL Out There"

Best Regards
Bob


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## steamer

Yoo Steve!


Works great Buddy! Thankyou! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Dave


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## Dan Rowe

Dave,
I am glad it worked I never doubted Steve's solution. 

It was a fun intellectual exercise for me as I had to know why the switch came set up the way it was. Designers of switch gears think in millions of units and look for the most efficient solution which seems to be a 4-wire solution.

Information on the internet is handy and free but there is a lot of garbage represented as fact.

I highly recommend the book I mentioned for electrical motors of any type. My copy is a bit worn from many trips in the bottom of my sea bag. If you have ever packed a sea bag more than once you will know that it has to be a useful book to be included. It is the only engineering book that I would always pack.

I checked the internet for a new copy and found several other books by Charlie Hubert that are not on my shelf, and the updated version of the Electrical Bible for the US maritime industry has a 2002 date on it and the used price is about $100. It is now on my wish list.

Charlie Hubert is one of the brightest men I have ever met personally. I had the enjoyment of being his student. If he is still with us he is really old now because he was in his late 50's or older when I was at Kings Point.

I have to describe him and tell a story or two about him. He is a slender frame man with a full head of white hair. He wore a standard white oxford shirt with a different bow tie every day. His manner was very youthful and jolly. You almost expected that his bow tie would just start spinning at any moment. He would walk into the room with no notes and lecture and field questions off the top of his head. I never saw him stumped or even heard any story of him ever being stumped by a question. I asked him several and never got him. He asked me a few and I did not have answers. Once he called on me to ask if I had any questions and when I said that I did not his response was "Why not?" to which I had only a lame "I don't know." The last time I saw him I had been sailing a few years. He was writing a new book and he asked me if I had seen anything that should be included in the book and again I only had a lame answer.

He gave fair tests but you needed to know the material. There was always a lot of stress at KP and tests and especially finals were the pits. Charlie had a way to defuse this a bit. He would give helpful hints from Uncle Charlie. The rules were simple. You had to have something on the paper to where you got stuck. He would look over the work, add the next step in red, and take off the points he thought the clue was worth. I never had to use the service but at least once I should have because I got the treasured laughing zero. The laughing zero was reserved for a really good effort but TOTALLY wrong.

Dan


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## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Yoo Steve!
> Works great Buddy! Thankyou! :bow: :bow: :bow:




Great to hear!! Now for the hard part. Make sure you have all the wiring in pipe and in boxes. Make it neat tidy. If you look thru the clutter you can see that I have a switch that serves as a service disconnect for the phase converter and the mill. The junction box contains the capacitors for the phase converter and the converter sits on rubber pads to keep the noise down and keep it in one place. 

I guess the point of all the rambling is, NO EXPOSED WIRES!! 

Now you can get back to the fun stuff!!!!


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## steamer

It is Alive!

With all the features I was looking for.....now for the high speed spindle!

Thanks guys!


Dave


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