# Yet another QCTP thread (BXA on AL320G)



## rodw

You guys must get sick of seeing these sort of posts, but here is another one!

Hare & Forbes wanted AUD $500 for a QCTP (I think it is a Dickson Style). The salesman reckons no one bothers to buy it as it is a major job to fit it to the AL320G that has a tool post like this:







I had seen several ways to fit a QCTP to this style of compound, Brian replaced the post (which I did not want to do to a new lathe), There is a two piece sleeve on Youtube, and I worked out yet another way. But in the end I found it was a lot simpler than I thought it might be by following the hollow bolt approach.

The post has a ground 12mm shoulder at the base, thins out to 10.8mm and ends in a M10 thread at the top. The top of the post is well below the top of the QCTP.

I got the BXA tool post from CTC tools in Hong Kong and it arrived in a week from finalising the order. When I looked at it, the post was 15.5mm in diameter and rattled around a bit in a 16mm hole. Off I went to my mates at the bolt shop and got a 16mm mild steel bolt (4.8 grade) with 100 mm of shank above the thread and a nice big high tensile washer. Once again, the blt had a bit of a layer of silt on it from the floods 2 years ago which washed off, but the price is right. While I was there, I spotted a range of extra long drill bits so I grabbed an 8.5mm one.

I had to go out last night but I managed to lop the thread off in the bandsaw,  face it to length and drill the 8.5mm hole right through from one end before we had to depart. So far so good. You could actually make this a blind hole but I played safe so that I would not get into trouble with chip buildup making this part. The bolt is 15.8mm in diameter, so it is a lot nicer fit than the BXA's supplied post.






Anyway, after work tonight, I got stuck into it. First ater getting some good advice from this forum, I widened the hole to 29/64" for about 41 mm (plus the drill tip)






Chamfered the edge with a countersink






And reamed it to 12mm which christened my with my super high quality (not) eBay reamer set.






Thanks guys, this worked perfectly!.

The next step was to tap the hole above the reamed section to M10. I knew I would have to sink the tap in as far as it could go and decided to buy a set of M10 taps so I could work up to a bottoming tap to get as many threads as possible without running too many risks.






Initially, I had a bit of trouble holding the chuck and turn the tap until I worked out to stick the toolpost back on and hold the chuck with a lathe tool.






And I kept threading until I ran out room to hold the tap.






That's it guys, Jobs done! 






You can see the finish of the bolt is not the best after its dunking in flood waters but no one will know.







This shot shows the detail inside, the 12mm reamed section followed by the M10 threaded section.






I found this a really easy project and it was nice for nothing to go wrong






I found I can finger tighten it right up and finish it off with a spanner so I was happy with my accuracy.

The compound has a nice spring loaded pin that acts as a detent for the  original tool post which has four holes at every 90 degrees and I was thinking I would be able to mill these into the base of the BXA. However, this pin caught on the slots for the wedges so I removed it and just squared the post with a set square. 

The AL320G is sold as a lathe suited for 12mm (1/2") tooling but has a massive toolpost hat can easily accept 16mm tooling. However, I found that the raised platform on the compound means you can't drop a 16mm tool low enough to be dead on centre. It is about 1mm high on the factory toolpost and the BXA is similar, aybe about 0.7mm too high. I wondered if this had been done deliberately by Hare and Forbes to make you pay another $1k for a lathe that can take 16mm tooling! Maybe if I was Brian, I would just mill the platform off the compound!

I think the BXA is the right size tool post for a lathe of this size. However, if you wanted to use 16mm tools, I think it would be just a matter of milling 1mm off the base of your tool holders. I think I will stick to 12mm tooling.






I did a couple of quick test cuts after aligning two tools to the tailstock and they were bang on first time.

I can't believe how much easier everything has become on my (much) bigger lathe! (And that's before I have used my new QCTP!)


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## trumpy81

Rod, you could always MILL the bottom of the tool post itself 

Nice Job!!. Who supplies your Nuts & Bolts? My local Nut & Bolt supplier has gone 'Trade Only' so I need a new supplier.


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## toolroom

Rod,
Good job! The bolt is refered to as a "Chicago Bolt." Smithy sells them for $3.50 for the AXA holders, albeit, they are much shorter. I've got one! Yours, however is much nicer looking, and should last a whole lot longer.
Dinkin'


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## rodw

trumpy81 said:


> Rod, you could always MILL the bottom of the tool post itself
> 
> Nice Job!!. Who supplies your Nuts & Bolts? My local Nut & Bolt supplier has gone 'Trade Only' so I need a new supplier.



Thanks, the tool holder needs to move down further as it is the tool holder itself that limits travel against the compound, so the tool holder needs to be milled to get clearance. The more I think of it, I am sure this lathe is sold as a 16mm machine elsewhere in the world and the compound platform is deliberate to put this its place among a range of tools from Hafco/ Hare and Forbes.

As regards bolts, that is my experience too. I deal with Lightning Bolts at Archerfield. They have gone the same way too. Fortunately, with my body lift kits, I have an account with them and I try to always buy full boxes so they tolerate me when I need to go looking for just one or two. They did me an awesome deal last year on my 200 amp Mig welder. It was too good to pass up even though it was a lot bigger than I wanted it to be. The darn thing weighs 90kg!


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## rodw

toolroom said:


> Rod,
> Good job! The bolt is refered to as a "Chicago Bolt." Smithy sells them for $3.50 for the AXA holders, albeit, they are much shorter. I've got one! Yours, however is much nicer looking, and should last a whole lot longer.
> Dinkin'



Thanks toolroom, I did not know Smithy sold them, my last machine was a Smithy Midas 1220 and I have ordered parts from them. I did fit a small QCTP to it but all I had to do was make up a sleeve and buy a domed nut to make it look pretty!

I did find one link where somebody had made one like mine and I had thought of the idea as well, I was thinking the weakness of the design was that the column has a gap at the bottom which might not be the best strength wise. This could be fixed with a two part design, but I am very happy with it now it is done and it was certainly the easiest to make.


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## trumpy81

rodw said:


> They did me an awesome deal last year on my 200 amp Mig welder. It was too good to pass up even though it was a lot bigger than I wanted it to be. The darn thing weighs 90kg!



Yeah, I was eying off your Mig earlier, thinking ... how can I distract him ... lol

I have an old DUE Mig that is rusting away in the shed. It needs a new potentiometer and the price of argon mix + bottle is too costly these days, so I haven't bothered fixing it.

I have the TIG welder and the argon for that in a G cylinder is costly enough. When this bottle is empty I intended to buy my own cylinder off eBay.


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## rodw

trumpy81 said:


> Yeah, I was eying off your Mig earlier, thinking ... how can I distract him ... lol
> 
> I have an old DUE Mig that is rusting away in the shed. It needs a new potentiometer and the price of argon mix + bottle is too costly these days, so I haven't bothered fixing it.
> 
> I have the TIG welder and the argon for that in a G cylinder is costly enough. When this bottle is empty I intended to buy my own cylinder off eBay.



I know the feeling. I got another handset with a telfon liner, small spool of wire and the feed rollers to do Aluminium but I have baulked at another bottle myself! I've got another project around the house that would see heaps of ally welding but I have no idea if I can do it and it is expensive to find out I can't!


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## lennardhme

Rod - thats a nice job.
I purchased one of these lathes at H&F pre Christmas sale & am very pleased with it. I got an identical QCTP at the same time which worked out cheaper than a CTC tools one which they had on special a month or so ago -  postage was the killer.
I machined a 16mm thick piece of cast iron to fit on the cross slide & removed the compound altogether for the time being while I work out how to fit a 4 bolt system - the cheesy two bolt threads have stripped already, but I havent been able to come up with a good mod for this type of compound yet. Any ideas?
Much stiffer without the compound off, so I will probably only put that on when threading, tapering etc.
thanks, & a great mod.
leonard


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## rodw

lennardhme said:


> Rod - thats a nice job.
> I purchased one of these lathes at H&F pre Christmas sale & am very pleased with it. I got an identical QCTP at the same time which worked out cheaper than a CTC tools one which they had on special a month or so ago -  postage was the killer.
> I machined a 16mm thick piece of cast iron to fit on the cross slide & removed the compound altogether for the time being while I work out how to fit a 4 bolt system - the cheesy two bolt threads have stripped already, but I havent been able to come up with a good mod for this type of compound yet. Any ideas?
> Much stiffer without the compound off, so I will probably only put that on when threading, tapering etc.
> thanks, & a great mod.
> leonard



Leonard, thanks for the compliment. The salesman showed me a totally different toolpost which was recommended for this lathe. I have no idea why as it would have taken a week to fit. It is a shame they did not show me yours, I would have bought it as it would have worked out similar in cost.

I have seen people make new cross slides with some T slots in them (sometimes with a separate area to mount the compound and I am pretty sure people on this forum were talking about a cast iron cross slide blank that is available in the US, not sure if it would fit our lathe. Maybe take a couple of pics and ask a question of the forum.


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## rodw

ADDENDUM

Leonard, try these for inspiration
http://www.projectsinmetal.com/forum/general-discussion/square-four-bolt-compound-mount-for-the-g0602/

http://www.projectsinmetal.com/forum/general-discussion/some-thoughts-on-improving-tool-flex-when-parting/


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## lennardhme

Many thanks Rod - they are useful leads.
I'll see if I can start another thread & post a pic. but I try to avoid this as I'm only on dial up & it takes forever.
I am making another CI plate that I'd planned to machine T slots into for in line boring & may be able to incorporate your bolt mod for the compound. Means a little bit of changing but only 4 or 6 screws so would'nt take long.
After that I'll be looking to see if I can get a set of change wheels for Imperial threads.
Great little lathe apart from the weak compound & no T slots on the cross slide.
thanks again,
Leonard


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## rodw

lennardhme said:


> Many thanks Rod - they are useful leads.
> I'll see if I can start another thread & post a pic. but I try to avoid this as I'm only on dial up & it takes forever.
> I am making another CI plate that I'd planned to machine T slots into for in line boring & may be able to incorporate your bolt mod for the compound. Means a little bit of changing but only 4 or 6 screws so would'nt take long.
> After that I'll be looking to see if I can get a set of change wheels for Imperial threads.
> Great little lathe apart from the weak compound & no T slots on the cross slide.
> thanks again,
> Leonard



Leonard, am I missing something here? I am sure the imperial change whels were included with mine. All of the change gear tables show imperial as well  but I am trying to stick with Metric having been sold on the SI system many years ago.

The other weakness of this lathe, which I have now got my head around is that the tail stock can move if not clamped tightly enough. I think it was my own fault for not adjusting up the locking lever correctly when I cleaned it all up but if turning a long part, I will make sure the top nut is also tightened down. I think I have got this nailed now!

As for cross slide and compound weaknesses, I have yet to find them becasue it is several levels of magnitude more rigid than my last lathe!

The manual is terrible, there is a much better one at Bolton Tools http://www.boltonhardware.com/images/pdf/cq9332.pdf


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## robcas631

Great job Rod!


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## lennardhme

No you havent missed a thing Rod. Mine is a AL250G, identical specs to your lathe except metric only gearing. Imp. threading is something I'll have a look at when time permits - I have another lathe that does both. In Oz its probably a good idea for you to go metric, although its difficult to find 2mm taps. Small stuff I use BA anyway. I dont have an issue with the cross slide design, just the compound strength. I was impressed with the accuracy & finish on this lathe, expected to be doing cleanup & mods for several months but have found no issues apart from the compound. I did have to adjust the tailstock lever to a more vertical position to make it easier to lock, but this was only a 2 min. job & more of a personal preference than a design problem.
Best of luck with your new lathe,
cheers,
Leonard


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## rodw

lennardhme said:


> No you havent missed a thing Rod. Mine is a AL250G, identical specs to your lathe except metric only gearing.
> Leonard



Now I understand. I looked at the AL250G. It is not identical to mine. I think they come from different suppliers. The main difference is that on your lathe, the threading is metric only and gearbox driven. On mine, the threading is selected by pick gears. Also mine has a power cross feed which the AL250G does not. I like that as I do a lot of facing.

I considered both and figured once I added a 4 jaw chuck, the price difference was not much between them so I went with the larger chuck and bigger swing.

I am not sure if you will be able to teach your lathe to cut imperial threads so keep your other lathe, but it never ceases to amaze me what people can achieve on this forum.


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## wolfye

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!

I bought the QCTP yesterday on sale for $160.00 from H&F. I'd seen your post on fitting one of these to an AL320G and was confident that I could do likewise.

This morning I went down to my local bolt shop and picked up a mild steel M16 bolt with a 100mm shank and went to work using your instructions.

I could not have been happier and it fits like a bought one.

Should we ever meet, I will most certainly shout you a beer!


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## rodw

wolfye said:


> You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!
> 
> Should we ever meet, I will most certainly shout you a beer!



Thanks Wolfye, I'm always open for a beer

Here's another mod I did to the toolpost to finish off this thread. I went down to Supercheap and bought a cheap spanner to fit the 16mm bolt and hacked it up. I made a washer out of some 25mm dia scrap because I dd not have one handy to suit the M10 bolt.






Then I tapped the hole at the head of the bolt which I had drilled right through at the correct diameter for an M10 thread when I made the toolpost.

And now I have a quick release when adjusting the angle of the Toolpost.






The spanner clears the release lever nicely.

I think this is a good way to go because you can move the lever around to any angle and quickly remove it if it is getting in the road (which it does for some operations). Generally, I just leave it finger tight.

I'm really at a loss to understand why H&F recommend a much more expensive QCTP for this lathe when fitting the BXA s so easy!


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## gus

Here's one more QCTP. DIY this from surplus bar stocks. The Red Knobs cost a fair bit. Bought it for the Red Colour which is striking. The mini-lathe is too small to take any commercial QCTP.
The landed cost in Singapore would hurt my pocket.


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## wolfye

This has been fantastic and great to work with! Much faster to change tools.
The only problem I have now is when knurling that the pressure on the tool can turn the toolpost.
Cheers!


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## simister

wolfye said:


> You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!
> 
> I bought the QCTP yesterday on sale for $160.00 from H&F. I'd seen your post on fitting one of these to an AL320G and was confident that I could do likewise.
> 
> This morning I went down to my local bolt shop and picked up a mild steel M16 bolt with a 100mm shank and went to work using your instructions.
> 
> I could not have been happier and it fits like a bought one.
> 
> Should we ever meet, I will most certainly shout you a beer!



Hi, I am also looking at a QCTP for the Al-320. Is the tool post you purchased from Hare Forbes the "Order Code: L292" for about $200?

John


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## rodw

simister said:


> Hi, I am also looking at a QCTP for the Al-320. Is the tool post you purchased from Hare Forbes the "Order Code: L292" for about $200?
> 
> John



John, I am really annoyed at H&F because they don't list this QCTP for the AL250G. They tried to sell me another much more expensive item that would have been so hard to fit, even the salesman said don't bother.

But tonight just for you, I took my tablet out to my shed and compared the numbers on the photos for all the tool holders on their site for the L292 and they are exactly the same as mine which I sourced from CTC ex Hong Kong. So yes, buy it!

You will find thought the tool holders, tooling  and inserts are a lot cheaper through CTC. I used to save up and spend about $500 at a time. One $800 order including $300 freight would have been $2500+ through H&F.


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## simister

Rod, Thanks for going to the trouble of checking that out for me. Yes, I notice on the AL-320 that H&F only list a QCTP (QA-150 - L295) for $495.00. I think this is the expensive QCTP that you are referring to. I will go for the the L292 at $200 as you suggested. 

Also, thanks for the tip on CTC.

John


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## Blogwitch

I am wondering why people always want to swing their toolposts around and so require to have a quick release on the holding nut?
If your cutting tool is the correct one for the job and has the correct angles on it, then the toolpost should be perfectly square to the spindle to get optimum cutting.
There are only two times I would want to swing my toolpost, and that is when I am single point thread cutting using the half angle method, or if I am working very close to the tailstock and need to hold a tool at the back of the toolpost, so I swing the toolpost through 90 degs. Both times it only takes a few seconds to find the right spanner.

John


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## tomrux

Um no. I am always swinging my tool post (as opposed to the top slide) I can perform a number of operations with the one tool just by adjusting the tool post slightly. Facing left an right, turning left or right. an working into a shoulder.
when turning tapers with the top slide it gets even more important to be able to adjust what the tool is doing by moving the tool post leavin the top slide set so that a corresponding taper can be turned on the next work piece and they will match exactly.

Tom R


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## rodw

simister said:


> Rod, Thanks for going to the trouble of checking that out for me. Yes, I notice on the AL-320 that H&F only list a QCTP (QA-150 - L295) for $495.00. I think this is the expensive QCTP that you are referring to. I will go for the the L292 at $200 as you suggested.
> 
> Also, thanks for the tip on CTC.
> 
> John



Sound like the one they recommend. I think because the lathe is sold as being for 12mm tooling. I've kept with 12mm as I had it for my last lathe. I have a couple of 16mm tools and they work fine on this toolpost. I thought I might need to machine something off the bottom of the holders but so far so good!

The massive 25mm boring bar I got from CTC that fits the BXA holder is absolutely awesome! SO rigid!

I rarely turn my toolpost but it is handy to have the spanner there. I used to do it a fair bit to chamfer after facing but now I use a 45 degree neutral tool. Sometimes I remove it if its in the way as the bolt holding it on is only finger tight. I usually align it using a small set square against the back face.


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## XD351

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum but have been reading your thread with interest as i have an AL320 also and am about to fit the exact same QCTP  from CTC to it.
I also have an AL250G that already has the same QCTP fitted and i must say it has been a revelation compared to the QCTP i purchased from H&F at considerable cost many years ago which now resides in a drawer somewhere until i find a use for it.
The CTC unit looks a little chunky on the AL250G but works well and i do like the wedge lock system.
The old unit had a tee bolt arrangement that was tightened with a funny sort of L shaped socket wrench/ spanner and getting that damned tee bolt into the slot on the back of the tool holder was a real pain- i actually had to  take to the slot on a few tool holders with a die grinder and a stone to get them to fit and guess what ! The damned tee bolts are different thicknesses so now two of the holders will only lock on one side of the tool post.
 There is a similar unit available on EBAY here in Australia but it is a piston lock type and not compatible with the CTC unit although the numbers on the side are the same.
It is approx twice the cost of the CTC unit but you need to take into account the freight cost from China -  it is insured though so you could expect to pay more for that.
So in the long run it pays to order a lot in one go as the cost of shipping did not seem linear to the cost of the gear , it seems to go in steps with weight being the deciding factor but there seems to be a reasonable sized window between each level.
So now i run the same unit on two of my lathes but with different tooling ( from H&F) so i can interchange between the two machines and only have to adjust the centre height accordingly.

Disclaimer: I have no association with any of the above mentioned suppliers other than being a customer - happy or otherwise.
If you want the name of the EBAY supplier send me a PM or do a search on the EBAY site ( Australia)  for QCTP - can't vouch for the quality though !

I noticed in the pictures of the AL320 compound slide that the area on the square boss that the tool post sits on is that it is flat , mine has a circular spigot around the tool post mounting bolt - did you machine yours off or did it not have one ? 

Regards ..
Ian


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## simister

rodw said:


> Sound like the one they recommend. I think because the lathe is sold as being for 12mm tooling. I've kept with 12mm as I had it for my last lathe. I have a couple of 16mm tools and they work fine on this toolpost. I thought I might need to machine something off the bottom of the holders but so far so good!
> 
> The massive 25mm boring bar I got from CTC that fits the BXA holder is absolutely awesome! SO rigid!
> 
> I rarely turn my toolpost but it is handy to have the spanner there. I used to do it a fair bit to chamfer after facing but now I use a 45 degree neutral tool. Sometimes I remove it if its in the way as the bolt holding it on is only finger tight. I usually align it using a small set square against the back face.



Rod,

I was just looking on the CTC website at the QCTP. Did you purchase the 250-200 BXA at $180.00? Is that the same as Hare Forbes sell?

John


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## rodw

simister said:


> Rod,
> 
> I was just looking on the CTC website at the QCTP. Did you purchase the 250-200 BXA at $180.00? Is that the same as Hare Forbes sell?
> 
> John



John, yes, I did not check the numeric code but the BXA is the one I ordered. They are heavy so H&F is better priced. I think CTC now list the tool holders separately. They cost me $20 or so at CTC which is a lot better than H&F. Back then there was no listing so I'd add a Paypal Note with my payment and he'd add them on to my order and send me a Paypal invoice.


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## simister

rodw said:


> John, yes, I did not check the numeric code but the BXA is the one I ordered. They are heavy so H&F is better priced. I think CTC now list the tool holders separately. They cost me $20 or so at CTC which is a lot better than H&F. Back then there was no listing so I'd add a Paypal Note with my payment and he'd add them on to my order and send me a Paypal invoice.



All sounds good. I will go for the H&F QCTP. I will certainly use CTC for tools that aren't too heavy - they look very competitive in comparison with H&F.

 Thanks for your advice Rod.

John


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## ///

I realise everyone here has gone for the Aloris style AXA and BXA tool posts, but as the Dickson/Dixon style has been mentioned a few times I thought I'd just post a warning for anyone that may consider them in future:

The H&F Dickson style holders are NOT interchangeable with Dickson style from other vendors!!
The Dickson style is very popular in the UK on Myford and Boxford machines, I also use the Dickson S0 size on my Sieg SC4.
Out of interest, I took one of my holders to H&F just to see if it would fit their QA-100 tool post and no.... there was a massive difference in the fit even though the overall dimensions are almost identical.

This means anyone buying a H&F/TM(Tool Master) Dickson type will be stuck with only having H&F/TM holders available to suit at greatly inflated pricing.

From reports in various forums, the Myford, Bison and Soba branded Dickson types ARE interchangeable and the holders are available for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of those at H&F.

Unfortunately the QA-140 piston type(BXA, 250-200) is too large for the SC4, as is the AXA (250-100) from CTC.
It's a shame that CTC don't have the 0XA (250-000) size as this suits 7" and 8" machines. The only option for these is LMS and Tormach, with killer shipping.


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## simister

rodw said:


> Sound like the one they recommend. I think because the lathe is sold as being for 12mm tooling. I've kept with 12mm as I had it for my last lathe. I have a couple of 16mm tools and they work fine on this toolpost. I thought I might need to machine something off the bottom of the holders but so far so good!
> 
> The massive 25mm boring bar I got from CTC that fits the BXA holder is absolutely awesome! SO rigid!
> 
> I rarely turn my toolpost but it is handy to have the spanner there. I used to do it a fair bit to chamfer after facing but now I use a 45 degree neutral tool. Sometimes I remove it if its in the way as the bolt holding it on is only finger tight. I usually align it using a small set square against the back face.



Hi Rod,

I get the 320 delivered next week. I was waiting for the H&F sales. 

I have purchased the bolt for the QCTP. However, I would like to know what length of shank you ended up with. I was wondering if I need extra length on the 10 mm tap to be able to reach far enough.  I haven't got the lathe here at the moment so I am not able to check it.

Thanks John


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## rodw

simister said:


> Hi Rod,
> 
> I get the 320 delivered next week. I was waiting for the H&F sales.
> 
> I have purchased the bolt for the QCTP. However, I would like to know what length of shank you ended up with. I was wondering if I need extra length on the 10 mm tap to be able to reach far enough.  I haven't got the lathe here at the moment so I am not able to check it.
> 
> Thanks John



John,  I just measured things for you. The 16mm shank is about 94.5mm long. The large hole  in the bolt is 48mm long and the stud on the 320 is 69mm long and the M10 thread is 29mm long.

An ordinary M10 tap is about 70mm long to the square shank. So a bottoming tap will cut a thread long enough if you screw it in as far as you can so the square shank is part way in the hole.  I had a long  shank drill bit and i drilled the bolt M10 right through but it was not necessary to go right through. An ordinary drill bit will drill far enough from the head end to meet the larger hole.

My bolt got tapped from both ends when I added the ring spanner later on.


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## simister

Hi Rod,

That's great, thanks for going to that trouble for me. 

I have ordered some 10 mm taps from CTC Tools and I have already got the bolt.  I am hoping to get the lathe delivered on Thursday. I will start the modification to QCTP as soon as I receive the taps. I will let you know when I have finished.

I appreciate your help.   John


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## simister

rodw said:


> John,  I just measured things for you. The 16mm shank is about 94.5mm long. The large hole  in the bolt is 48mm long and the stud on the 320 is 69mm long and the M10 thread is 29mm long.
> 
> An ordinary M10 tap is about 70mm long to the square shank. So a bottoming tap will cut a thread long enough if you screw it in as far as you can so the square shank is part way in the hole.  I had a long  shank drill bit and i drilled the bolt M10 right through but it was not necessary to go right through. An ordinary drill bit will drill far enough from the head end to meet the larger hole.
> 
> My bolt got tapped from both ends when I added the ring spanner later on.



HI Rob,

I have now received the Al-320 and ready to unpack and move into my workshop.  I was reading the manual regarding the headstock and wondered what type of oil you are using to top up and change when required? 

I have read that you can use hydraulic tractor oil. I have some of this oil, however, I thought I would check first to see if it is ok to use.

Regards, John


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## Swifty

Hi John, hydraulic oil is fine for use in head stocks and the saddle as well.

Paul.


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## rodw

Swifty said:


> Hi John, hydraulic oil is fine for use in head stocks and the saddle as well.
> 
> Paul.



X2 Hare and Forbes sell it for that purpose as well. My lathe has been running it in the headstock and all over the ways since new as my filler bung broke and it dropped the oil on day 1.


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## simister

OK great, Thanks guys


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## simister

Hi Rod,

I finally got the lathe up and running. I made the QCTP chicago bolt today and it turned out great.  

Thanks for your help and posting your experience. Simple to make and does the job perfect.

John


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## timoxx4

rodw said:


> You guys must get sick of seeing these sort of posts, but here is another one!
> 
> Hare & Forbes wanted AUD $500 for a QCTP (I think it is a Dickson Style). The salesman reckons no one bothers to buy it as it is a major job to fit it to the AL320G that has a tool post like this:


 
Hi Rod,

I have the same lathe and want to do this to mine as well but its different than yours ? Here are some pictures of it but I don't know if the QCTP will fit as it has a shoulder attached to the top of the X/slide where the QCTP would go ? Dose that QCTP of yours have a hole in the bottom of it that would fit over this shoulder thing ?


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## rodw

What is the diameter of the boss? If it is 16mm or less, the QCTP will fit over it, if not, it looks like you have an exercise with a 4 jaw chuck to bore the recess in the QCTP holder. From what I've heard, they are hardened on the outside but once you get through that, they'll machine OK.


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## timoxx4

Its 24mm. Do you think there is enough room inside the QCTP for this to be bored out ? I don't suppose you can take a picture of the bottom of your QCTP so I could see what it looks like ? Or take it apart to see what room might be inside for a 24mm hole ?   That would be a great help if you can ?

Cheers.


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## rodw

timoxx4 said:


> Its 24mm. Do you think there is enough room inside the QCTP for this to be bored out ? I don't suppose you can take a picture of the bottom of your QCTP so I could see what it looks like ? Or take it apart to see what room might be inside for a 24mm hole ?   That would be a great help if you can ?
> 
> Cheers.



I think you could get away with it. Here is the base and it has a 25mm or so threaded hole.





This screws in from a slotted top on the top side




I think you could shorten the treaded post but I did not dissassemnle anything to check. I have had it apart before and it is tricky to put back together but it is doable.


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## Journeyman

Timoxx4 - Found a picture (attachment) of my AXA type 100 which shows what is inside.  Basically there is a central tube that holds the QCTP together. The  bore in mine is 14mm but the larger BXA type 200 has a bore of 16mm. The  tube isn't that thick so I doubt if you could machine it out to 24mm.  If you want to take yours apart the end of the tube is a left hand  thread.

I had a similar problem on my Warco WM250 (UK) and ended up machining the boss. You can see details on my site - Fitting a QCTP 

Good luck
John


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## rodw

Journeyman said:


> Timoxx4 - Found a picture (attachment) of my AXA type 100 which shows what is inside.  Basically there is a central tube that holds the QCTP together. The  bore in mine is 14mm but the larger BXA type 200 has a bore of 16mm. The  tube isn't that thick so I doubt if you could machine it out to 24mm.  If you want to take yours apart the end of the tube is a left hand  thread.
> 
> I had a similar problem on my Warco WM250 (UK) and ended up machining the boss. You can see details on my site - Fitting a QCTP
> 
> Good luck
> John



That is actually quite different to the mechanism in mine. With mine turning the slotted head withdrew the centre shaft from a thread at the bottom So the column is a single part.


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## timoxx4

Thanks for the pictures. That helps a lot.

Hmm looks like I might have to cut my boss down I think. If I bored out the bottom hole on the QCTP it would pretty much wipe out that entire threaded portion on the bottom.

Only problem now is I need a tool post in the lathe to machine down the boss but cant because the piece with the boss on it will be in the lathe chuck :wall:

Also if I machine the boss down to 16mm to fit inside the QCTP it would be very thin in the walls as the hole in the boss where the original bolt sticks out of is 14mm. So the cast boss would only have 1mm thick walls left ?

I am not real sure what to do now? I didn't want to remove the boss completely as I think it would add a lot of support to the tool post. And I would also like the option of being able to go back to the original tool post if need bee.

Any ideas ?


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## timoxx4

rodw said:


> That is actually quite different to the mechanism in mine. With mine turning the slotted head withdrew the centre shaft from a thread at the bottom So the column is a single part.


 
It should be the same I think. The two pieces might just have been stuck together when they came out but the slotted head piece should turn inside the scroll piece so must be 2 pieces or it wouldent work.


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## Journeyman

Timoxx4 said - "_Only problem now is I need a tool post in the lathe to machine down the  boss but cant because the piece with the boss on it will be in the lathe  chuck_





"

Yes that's exactly the problem I had and I ended up making a new tool post that fitted directly to the cross-slide. I also ended up with a very thin boss 14mm dia with an M12 thread down the middle but more by luck than judgement the cast iron didn't crack. You are right about the slotted head piece it goes down the centre of the actuating mechanism which rotates around it, as you say it wouldn't work if it was all one bit. The thread or ramp that makes it work is a three start left hand acme thread that pushes the wedges down to clamp the tool holders.

The boss on your lathe doesn't look as high as mine was perhaps you could make a really thick washer about 60mm dia to fit over the boss and fit the QCTP on top of that if the vertical height allows the tool to come down to centre height!

John


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## rodw

I think timoxx4 was right and I was wrong. Mine is the same.

The other alternative is to look at the reccommended tool post for this lathe.
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L295

It is a very good bit of gear and I think from memory it already has a recess cut into the base. Shame about the price!

I think if you made a spacer so the tool post sat above the boss it would be too high for most tooling.

I've got 1 or 2 16mm tools and they just fit in at centre height, mostly I use 12mm.


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## timoxx4

Wow, yeah $500+ is a bit out of my range for a tool post. Looks like it would fit straight on though. Tool holders are a bit pricy also for it.

Yeah I try to use all 12mm tooling with my lathe also. It would be interesting to see if they might sell just the cross slide part for this machine and I could have one to machine all I like and not worry about ?


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## rodw

They will sell parts as a mate bought a spindle so he could build a CNC lathe.

The otber alternative would be to make your own crossslide. I've thought about that a couple of times. I'd probably use Cast Iron which you can get from George Weston. They cut to size.


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## timoxx4

rodw said:


> The otber alternative would be to make your own crossslide. I've thought about that a couple of times. I'd probably use Cast Iron which you can get from George Weston. They cut to size.


 
Yeah well that could be a possibility. One like John's only bolted with T-nuts to the carousel maybe ?


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## ronboult

Hi Rod
Saw your post on adapting a BXA to your new lathe and it gave me confidence to tackle mine. Just bought a Sieg Runmaster 330x 1000 lathe and it had a old style toolpost with a insert post. No T slot in the compound like American machinery.




It had a european post similar to yours. The shaft was 16mm but the Boss at the bottom was 25mm and had to go. Decided to make a new post from scratch.




When I removed the compound it was obvious that the post was a press fit with a roll pin to stop rotation




I pressed it out and machined a new one. Luckily I still have my old Sieg SC4. Started with a 40x140mm piece of 12L14 and my little lathe was required to remove most of it. Single pointed the 16mm thread. The 25mm boss is now shorter and does not protrude above the top of the compound allowing the QCTP to sit down on top of the compound.




New Phase II BXA in place



Cheers
Ron


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## rodw

Ron, looks great. It amazing how much interest this post about a really simple modification I did ages ago has inspired others to have a go.


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## timoxx4

Still yet to do mine. Just waiting on the lathe parts from Hare & Forbes so I can machine the boss down on the compound slide. 12 weeks for the new parts to arrive so I have a bit of a wait. 

Damn you Ron you had it easy. lol I wish my boss was like that.


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## ronboult

Hi timoxx4

Sorry if your situation is more difficult than mine. If it was my lathe I would remove the compound to see how the actual post is attached under the compound. Then just mount the compound on the mill and mill off the centre boss. I assume the larger boss is flat on top since that is what the original Toolpost mounted on. I wouldn't worry too much over making an irreversible change to your compound because once you mount your QCTP you will never want to go back. After the small boss is gone making a new 16mm post is a breeze
Cheers and goodluck
Ron


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## canadianhorsepower

ronboult said:


> Hi timoxx4
> 
> Then just mount the compound on the mill and mill off the centre boss. I assume the larger boss is flat on top since that is what the original T



thats what I had to do on mine 
much more rigid also


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## joco-nz

Following in Rod's footsteps on my own AL320G.

Started with a big ass bolt, way larger than it needed to be but it did provide some turning experience that for a newbie was/is much needed.




Bolt fits nicely with very little slop.



Length is about bang on and once the washer is on the top it will be perfect.



Next step will be mounting and then we are away. :thumbup:


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## Quickxb

Another Al 320G QCTP convert here, thanks to Rod. Only thing that sH^t$ me is that the tool post can only take 1 holder at a time. Sort of defeats the purpose just a tad, referring to the one mentioned in the thread obviously. Anyway thanks Rod it was an exercise worth doing, I can still change tools much faster and have more versatility with what type and size tools I use.


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