# Team Design 1 - Cam Grinding Fixture



## wareagle (Sep 28, 2008)

This thread has been started for the interested members to start the design of cam grinding fixture in response to this *thead*.

Sharpen those pencils and warm up those 'puters!

DISCLAIMER: The design(s) produced within this thread will be a joint effort between those members who wish to participate. Keep in mind that if you chose to follow any design herein that you do so at your own risk. HMEM is not liable nor responsible for verification of this/(these) design(s). In other words, the design(s) is/(are) unproven and may or may not be fully evaluated and tested for operation. Your desicion to build any of the designs herein indicates that you fully understand that the design(s) is/(are) not evaluated and proven, nor certified by a professional engineer.


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## steamer (Sep 28, 2008)

Well,

I like the rocking beam versions as they are simple to get your head around.

I think cam followers are critical. They must match in geometry, if not scale with the followers used in the engine in question. but they can be very simple.

I think a few follower rests are in order also.  Simple things, not complicated.

We should think about being able to grind crankshafts too. That would be helpful.

The big question is the spindle. There are several designs around on the web, most have been done in industry several thousand times, so article copywrite aside, the spindle designs are not patented.

Mr. Stevenson...this inversed one of which you speak...could you sketch that up for the group?

10-1 reduction will help for making a master as errors in the master will be reduced 10 fold on the cam. But I am concerned that the average Joe who is not up on cam design may have trouble making anything other than the cam he/she wants at a larger scale.

Additionally, 10-1 may result in a piece of equipment that is rather large ( maybe not). I am concerned that the average HMEM members machines may not handle it.  We should decide on how large parts can be.


OK all....and there are others right?  What say you?

Dave


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## John S (Sep 28, 2008)

Who's this Mr Stevenson ? 

The 10" figure was just mentioned as being the one used on this model.
Cam follows are critical. Its no good having a sharp vee pointer following the pattern if the can has a radiused follower of it stuffs the geometry up.

I did a dirty sketch some while ago when I was explaining it to someone else, I'll check some old backups.

The spindle on this one was just an old Myford spindle running in two oilite bushings, it only has to run at 100 rpm I don't feel the spindle will be a problem unless you mean the grinding spindle ? The one on this machine was a commercial cartridge spindle mounted in two plumber type castings.


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## steamer (Sep 28, 2008)

Hi John

Yes I was thinking of the grinding spindle. I agree the work spindle doesn't need to be sophisticated, but the grinding spindle needs to be pretty good to get good results. That means we're probably talking preloaded bearings and such. Not trivial.

Dave


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## BobWarfield (Sep 28, 2008)

I tried a 10:1 reduction model on my CAD program and it seemed unweildy big. Here is the geometry sketched out for a 4:1 model:







Imagine an arm the pivots from the pivot point shown. The pattern is at the far end, with a tracking wheel to follow it's contour. The wheel can be a bearing or other smooth tracking stylus. The model camshaft and grinding wheel are positioned at an appropriate distance based on how much it is desired to scale down the pattern. I've shown 1/2 and 1/4 scale positions here. Certainly things could also be scaled up to allow even more reduction.

In operation, the pattern and model camshaft are rotated at exactly the same speed while the grinder wheel takes its cuts. It is likely helpful to put the tracking wheel on a fine screw to control the depth of cut. The rotation of the camshafts can be managed with by hand crank or by a slow speed motor.

The whole affair can sit as shown with gravity holding the tracking wheel against the pattern, or it could be stood up vertical and a spring used. 

For a spindle, there are lots of choices that aren't terribly expensive. A Little Machine Shop toolpost grinder would work great, for example. I am partial to the idea of designing it to stand upright so it can simply be used with a bench grinder. I suppose one could make a spindle for it if desired, but it seems unneccesary for something used as seldom as a cam grinder.

Best,

BW


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## wareagle (Sep 28, 2008)

I'll drop my $.02 worth... And that's about all it's worth! :big: And this will be a fun mind grinder!!

My thoughts for this design is to keep it simple and straight forward so the average home machinist could tackle it using _as was said _ hobby sized equipment. If the machining could be kept to lathe and drill press work that would be even better. Use off the shelf components and keep the base and frame work easily adaptable for changes. 

The inverted cam follower sounds very intriguing. I could see where setting up the follower with that design would be easier (maybe) to cut the master. If the design follows the normal route, then maybe an old automotive can lobe could be used as a master. Which gets me thinking I might have an old camshaft somewhere out of a small block Chevy. If I can locate it, maybe I can cut the individual lobes from it to use as master lobes. There'd be 16. And I only need one....

As far as designing it in mind for grinding crankshafts... I think that raises the complexity considerably. Maybe not, but I can see it doubling or more the amount of work to construct.


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## BobWarfield (Sep 29, 2008)

Here are some sketches of a grinder meant to be used with the tool grinders most of us have. The wheel is dressed to an angle because we need to approach it from an angle to get clearance.











This one is about 10" high and gives a 5:1 reduction from the pattern. Pattern and model camshaft are held between centers with lathe dogs. The brown framework pivots on the shaft at bottom to describe the arc. A follow on the fixed blue support tracks the pattern and moves the frame closer or further from the wheel according to the pattern's profile. There is a motor mounted on the pivot frame to drive the pattern and master at the same speeds.

This cam grinder could be built with drill press and lathe, but it would be easier with a mill. It's only a sketch, and there is a lot of detail missing. We first need to decide what format cam grinder to build. 

Cheers,

BW


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## carbide_burner (Sep 29, 2008)

> As far as designing it in mind for grinding crankshafts... I think that raises the complexity considerably. Maybe not, but I can see it doubling or more the amount of work to construct.



Agree. Why would one want to grind a crank by copying a master? I've never seen or heard of this being done (or am I misinformed?) All you need is to be able to offset the mains so that the big-end is concentric with the spindle - like they do it in 1:1 

Got some qeustions, but I don't want to go O.T. I'll keep 'em for another time!


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## John S (Sep 29, 2008)

Still looking for the damn sketch.
The inverse pattern worked by replacing the follower on the plate by a scriber mounted at 90 degrees. A layer of tape was wrapped round the grinding wheel and the cam you wanted to follow was mounted on the headstock spindle.

Turn the drive motor by hand and it scribed the bit in the middle you had to cut out. Mine used 6" wheels and when they were worn to 5 - 3/4" they went on the bench grinder as this also affected the geometry but I am talking about copying cams for Manx Nortons etc which are probably a lot more critical.

Also I have probably misled you on the 10:1 ratio as the OD of the blank isn't critical only that it's round so you get an accurate base circle, the bit that's removed works out the ratio and it's got to be based on centre of the headstock to centre of pivot : size of cam or along those lines.

Really need this sketch. If I can't find it tonight I'll do another one, it far simpler than what has been sketched so far.

As regards a grinding spindle a bench grinder with work done on the bearing housings for float, although that's not critical but most important is the wheel mounting, balance and dressing should work OK.

I was given a very cheap 12 UKP grinder a while ago, not very powerful and only used for touching up HSS bits but when new this thing was dead smooth and would have made a good spindle. It's OK now but does vibrate but then again it's a shop tool, if I spent some time and a new wheel and probably a flywheel on the other end it would make a good grinder.
My cam grinder used steel bars for the pivoting bed and other bits, good cheap and sturdy given it will probably only have to do something like 6" to 8" long pieces max.

More later.


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## carbide_burner (Sep 29, 2008)

I've been toying with ideas the whole morning!! (distracting me from what I SHOULD be busy with  )
I am thinking of ideas to keep the design and construction as simple as possible, as I don't think I would use it often enough to spend major cash and time on a dedicated grinding machine.

I am thinking along the line of making a fixture that will fit on the lathe. The cam blank should go in the machine chuck, with the other end supported in the tailstock. This already ensures accurate and solid job setup.
With the compound slide removed, the grinding fixture should now fit on the cross slide. The fixture should obviously include the master cam, with the master cam shaft driven from the chuck by whatever means: toothed belt, chain or whatever is lying around. One thing my mind is still stuck on is to get the drive to the master cam. - keeping in mind that the saddle must be moved to get from the one cam to the next. Spline shaft?? or a shaft with at least a keyway in that can slide through the master cam drive??

The grinding fixture should be lockable in a fixed position, so that one will be able to use it for a shaft grinder, controlling the cut size with the cross slide.

Only drawback I can foresee is ugly grinding dust on the machine bed, but I for one am perfectly willing to strip off the saddle for a proper cleandown after a grinding job. Like I said before, I don't foresee using something like this too often. (even if you use it once on every engine you build, it still isn't too often!!) 

Ideas anyone?

I'll mock up a drawing when I get time (doubt if that's gonna happen  )


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## Mcgyver (Sep 29, 2008)

Bob, I'm surprised you're not all over something like this
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30633

A good start might be a review of existing designs; whats good about them and what's not.

you;re going to need a spindle. Bench grinder won't do. I has poor quality bearings and will leave a brutal finish. dremels and other such devices might be moderately better, but they're still a poor grinding spindle. I think you have to make one; maybe a preload with belleville washers or something like the quorn? at least with a light grinding spindle you can use a spring preload and don't have to buy matched bearings....still, as Dave says, not trivial. otoh, what about good tool making is?

You also need a precise way to index, but that could via template you cut with a dividing head.

personally, I'd make it free stand, keep the grinding grit well away from the lathe. I had a lathe once that was used a lot for grinding, not pretty. 

I've made cams using the lowest tech method possible, working out the math to get the Z height for each part of a revolution and then milling the cam. you get a whole bunch of facets that are so small the blend together with one swipe of the smoothest of files. case harden and emery and you're done. Still, a cam grinder is a great addition to the IC engine builders shop


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## John S (Sep 29, 2008)

Carbide,
Here's what I make up for drive shafts, never seen it before but it's that simple someone must have thought of it before me.






Just a socket with the 3/8" or 1/2" square bit cut off and pushed and brazed into the end of a tube.
Piece of hex bar selected to fit the socket [ or the other way round  ]

Same part in pieces to show build up.






Made loads of these for special machines at odd times.

John S.


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## BobWarfield (Sep 29, 2008)

Mcgyver  said:
			
		

> Bob, I'm surprised you're not all over something like this
> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30633



Nah, that's an awful lot of work to go to unless you're going to R&D a whole line of IC engines!

I would cut the blanks on CNC mill, however. 

I'm not too worried about my tool grinder. It runs very smooth and has demonstrated a nice ground finish before. Ought to work at least as well as faceting the cam on a mill. With that said, I've seen anough write ups on these Harbor Freight grinders to know that many probably are not operating that well. I got lucky on this one I guess. 

BTW, here is a picture of a cam grinder very similar to what I'm proposing: http://www.mysterelly.com/IMAGES/CamGrinder_Detail0037alg.jpg

He really did use a bunch grinder and not even a Tool Grinder! Some aspects of that design are pretty nice.

Here's another CNCZone thread on cam grinding: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3549

Swede (of the 5Bears site) makes a lot of engines and uses a hand cranked rig with his bench grinder as he mentions in that thread.

While we're on the subject of CNC, one could employ principles similar to the sketch I've given to eliminate the need for a model. It's a matter of mounting the model camshaft in a way so that it's rotation is properly synchronized to the motion of the mill table (not hard with a stepper motor for Mach 3 to control it), providing some form or fashion of grinding wheel at the spindle, and making the model camshaft springloaded so that the pressure on the cut varies as the mill is moving through it's cycle. If the springload doesn't turn you on it's also possible to just go very slowly with minimal depth of cut to get there: advance a thou, make a couple passes, advance another thou, etc..

A little Sieg CNC mill such as John works with ought to do the job very nicely and be every bit as sophisticated as the CNCZone project linked to. Plus you'd have a nice little CNC mill when you're done fooling with camshafts.

For the grinding spindle, I'd be prone to wanting to hang something like a toolpost grinder so the wheel is at right angles to the spindle. Or, if you have a surface grinder, you could likely place the Sieg rig right on the grinder and go from there.

Something like that is more the way I'd approach the problem in my own shop, but that's just my nutty CNC fetish at work. Simpler ways abound!

Best,

BW


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## Mcgyver (Sep 29, 2008)

well certainly Swede knows what he's doing, so maybe it will work. 



> Ought to work at least as well as faceting the cam on a mill.



I don;t think I'd posted a pic of the results, ??? maybe I'm wrong  

anyway, have it, i look forward to seeing your cams roll off the production line


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## steamer (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi guys,

You've been busy!.. I like what you guys have gotten to.

Pesky job thing is taking my time.....I'll post a bit tonight

Dave


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## steamer (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi All.

I have read through what you guys dug up. There are some great ideas in there. I am glad you are all scouring your resources as this will help settle a spec. We can get out of feasabilty and into design.

BW you appear to have taken the bit and started running..Great!. I like your sketch and is the type of sketches we should be doing at this time
I think we need to get our ideas down and work out what we need. ( requirements)

From reading your posts I gathered the following

KISS is the word of the day ( Keep it simple....)

From what I read, CNC is not required, which I agree with as the amount of times I will be grinding cams will probably be relatively small

We need to keep the overall size as small as practicable for our members with small lathes/mills.
What do you think guys, what is the longest camshaft anyone will be grinding? 6" long? ( another question)

There appears to be some drive towards utilizing an existing grinder if possible. If we can adapt the design to an existing spindle, that would certainly be convienent. Should there be a spindle design for those who can"t do that? ( Thats a question too)

BW. That picture you posted shows a very simple fixture. It would appear that the cam just has a larger base circle than the one being ground. That is convienent from the perspective that you not locked into a reduction ratio.  You just grind until you get the base circle diameter you want and stop. Very convienent.

It would appear that the ground cam has a proportionally smaller nose radius than the master, though that could just be the way the camera is angled. Additionally, the follower should have the same radius as the grinding wheel,( I think) That isn't that difficult but it is important.

I was also reading the CNC site. The comment that cam geometry is important should not be under stressed. I have seen a couple of model designs with flat flanks and that is not good. Very poor dynamic events with a flat flanked cam. From this, it is clear that the master/master follower must have good geometry.

BW, This is the arm with 10/1 reduction that I was thinking of. The pivot is in the corner, the cam 1/2" above it and the master 5" away from the pivot. This would give 10/1 reduction and keep the arm shrort. This may also allow the vast array of clutter surrounding the master to be away from a grinding wheel.
....All it is is one more sketch to the pile.....let's keep brainstorming...which is what we are doing right now. 

Warms Regards,

Dave


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## wareagle (Sep 30, 2008)

In any engine, the camshaft is the brain. It tells the valves when to open, how far to open, and long to stay open. There are other things to consider with cam lobe geometry, and that is to have the profile such that the valve train will become disconnected, in other words the tappets are leaving the surface of the cam lobe (spring pressures, lift, duration, RPMs, etc. all play a role in this phenominon as well, but let's focus on the cam itself). This can spell disaster if the conditions are right. The dynamics of cylinder fill, fluid pressures (air/fuel, steam, etc.), timing, displacement, intake and exhaust runner volumes, along with other design features of the engine can effect how a cam is best ground geometrically as well. For the purposes of this exercise, let's stay on track with the fixture design, and we can worry about the lobe geometry later. It truly is a science all by itself.

*steamer* has brought up a valid point in that we really need to have a target. A set of specs of sorts. With the different ideas we have here, this could very easily turn into a pair of designs, if not more. Like the saying goes, there's as many different ways of skinning the cat as there is people doing the skinning.

So, let's pick some design criteria (which has been started; let's just settle on some of the ideas, if you have more, throw them out here!) and let's get to working on a design. Once we come up with the specs, then we can put that into a post or even better, a document for future reference.


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## MadKad (Oct 1, 2008)

Hi

sorry I got confussed from the other thread :big: I didnt relise this was a full machine, does any one know if there is any vid's on one working so I can get some ideas on how these work?

Thanks,

Karl.


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## steamer (Oct 1, 2008)

Hi guys,

Quick post

Heres a little more of the idea I had....sorry been busy around here.






The pivots are at the bottom and are outboard.

A pair of pulleys are to the left with the master cam in the back and the model cam in the foreground using the arms I showed in the previous post. 
From the viewpoint of the grinding wheel

Lots more to flesh out, but it is the concept I am trying to convey.


Dave


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## wareagle (Oct 1, 2008)

I am having trouble getting my head around the angled design. Would the master came be an inverted profile? I guess it would depend on where you place the follower. Okay, never-mind. I answered my own question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




From what I see of this sketch, if the arms were flipped over with the angle pointing down rather than up, then the weight of the fixture would put the pressure on the grinding stone and cam blank. A "normal profile" master would lift the cam blank off of the wheel in this fashion. Flip the arms back to the above orientation, and you could use an inverted master. This of course assumes that the follower is below the axis of the fixture arms and we're letting Sir Isaac Newton provide our elbow grease.

Any thoughts??


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## steamer (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi W/E,

The stationary follower would be above the master cam. The replicated cam would be ground against the vertical face of the grinding wheel. First blush would be to mount the cam grinding fixture on my baldor style import tool grinder located on the tilt table set into the mitre fence slot.







The rig would be spring loaded against the master cam follower with an adjustment screw to allow for feeding the work in slowly.

Anybody out there?

Dave


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## Jones (Oct 4, 2008)

Would it be better to have the master cam and cam stationary (well... they still rotate) and have the follower and grinding head pivot up and down? I'd imagine it would be easier to design and build.


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## steamer (Oct 4, 2008)

We can add that concept to the pile. Sure why not.

I am still looking to create a spec. We should be discussing the differant design points.

Sorry....Designing something can be a lot of work 

Dave


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## wareagle (Oct 4, 2008)

I agree on the need for specs. If we don't have a target, then how do we aim? :-\

Do we want to focus on a single design? Or two? 
Do we want a fixture that would be usable with an existing bench grinder? 
What size cams do we need to allow for? 
On the master cam, do we want to use an inverted master lobe?
How do we control the master and blank rotation? Motor or by hand?
Do we use the wieght of the fixture to self feed, or do we use springs or weights?
What is the most narrow lobe we wish to cut without interfering with an adjacent lobe?

These are the questions that are rolling around in my head. Are there anymore to add to the mix?


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## steamer (Oct 4, 2008)

Minimum width of the ground cam is critical. A bench grinder might be used here for a narrow cam but will need to be dressed accordingly.  Alternatively, grinding on the perifory of the wheel would allow use of a dish wheel which are readily available.

Dave


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## John S (Oct 4, 2008)

Sorry I have been so long but I was looking for the sketch I made of the cam grinder, never did find it.
I was sure I scanned it in to send to someone but can't find a jpg anywhere on 2 hard drives.

I only have the one picture of the cam grinder as shown and unfortunatly it doesn't show the cam end.
So I did this tonight, very rough and it needs some explanation as some drive parts are not shown.
First the cam grinder again to save going back.






now the drawing.






What is not shown is the drive from the motor to the inverse master cam which on the original was by two pairs of large pulleys just visible to get the speed of the blank down to about 100 rpm.

From the inverse cam there was a chain drive, again just visible to the spindle running at 1:1 to keep it all in time.

The radius of the follower has to be the same as the radius of the tappet, the master cam has to be the same diameter as the grinding wheel and the distance from the pivot shaft to the spindle has to be the same as the distance from the pivot shaft to the master cam shaft

I personally think the inverse master is an easier way to go as regards preparing as all you have to worry about is the sticky up portion of the cam.


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## steamer (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi John! 

Nice to hear from you. Tell me more about the inverse cam? Is there a mathmatical approuch to laying that out? That math should be part of the design in the end.

Is it easier to machine? I would appear to be a radius cut on a cylinder, and that is certainly simplier than a master cam, but I suspect there is other things going on there.

Warm Regards,

Dave


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## John S (Oct 5, 2008)

The master cam isn't as easy as just machining a radius into a cylinder although for some simple engines it wouldn't be far off, that's just my crappy drawing.

In the days when we were doing this, mid to late 1970's we had no CAD and it was all the hard way.

There were two methods we used, copy and development.
Copy was reasonable easy in that a known good cam was fitted up to the spindle, the master cam [ MC from now on ] was packed in or out and the follower replaced by a scriber.

Keeping the copy cam in contact with the wheel the whole lot was revolved one rev to scribe a mark on the MC which was then removed to be cut and filed into shape, we used alloy plate from 1/8" to 1/4" depending on what was to hand.

In the development method this was used where we had no cam or wanted to try a profile from another cam onto ours.
Many of the cams were welded up with Stellite and then reground to another shape.

This was done by drawing a set of radial lines every 5 degrees and the opening and closing points marked.
Then diameters were laid off for lift at every 5 degrees and a line blended thru them. pic below:

This was the whole idea of working on larger master cams as it didn't get so cluttered and like a pantograph any errors were reduced by the scale factor.
If you are working on say a 6" wheel and the MC is 6" but you are grinding a 1/2" cam you are working at a 12:1 ratio
so any slight errors get canceled out 12:1






This MC blank has to be laid out as a 6" cam, not a large cam with a small lobe, this way everything stays in scale and the same MC can be used on any size cam provided that the profile is what is needed.

The cutout looks funny with it being the inverse but the data is exactly the same as if you drawn a proper cam and did the same as regards lines every 5 degrees and circles. You can even get the same data with a known cam and a degree plate and dial gauge.

The 4 central holes I missed out of the original drawing and these are so you can move the MC in relation to the camshaft being made so you can do multi cylinder engines.

Today with CAD and even CNC what we did years ago is a damn sight easier. The system does work, the original cam grinder did countless numbers of cams and the racing miles done by these engines must run into the tens of thousands given the average racing bike in the Isle of Man does about 1200 miles in race week including practice.


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## steamer (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi John,

Ahhh! OK Understood.

How difficult do you think it would be to document the layout procedure for that inverse cam?
I think we are going to have to explain that to the average Joe.

I like the index being part of the master.  That makes for a simple design.

12/1 is a great reduction ratio.  Definitely makes the master less critical.

Sometime during the day today, I'll start putting the concepts and comments given into a spreadsheet to keep track and organize. Then maybe we can have a group poll as to what features are more important than others.

Maybe from there we can set a concept in firm oatmeal ;D

Dave


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## John S (Oct 5, 2008)

Dave, or anyone?
Do you have a drawing of a model cam with some form of data?
If so can you post it or links to it and I'll do a worked example.
.


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## steamer (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi John,

I have several sets of plans for a few model engines.  I am going to go through them because I want to look at diameter and width requirements. I have a few items on the "honeydo" and my kids soccer game today.  Sometime later today. I will post the spread sheet with the max and min of these.  That should cover most applications.

Dave


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## Jones (Oct 5, 2008)

Hey all,

I was thinking about something more like this. I really like the idea of having the cam's stationary and the grinder head moving up and down (This model is just like a quick sketch, its not that great and it's not completely to scale. Also, haven't added the motor mount or drive belt so it's just floating there : )


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## kustomkb (Oct 5, 2008)

This is a really nice thread, Thanks to all.

What kind of grinder would be floating up and down? Pneumatic?


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## steamer (Oct 6, 2008)

Hi Jones, 

Thanks for sharing that!
I understand. That is an inversion of the designs we have been talking about. As we are brainstorming, can you expound on your reasons of doing it that way?  Does it make the unit easier to make or use fewer parts...or smaller parts....easier to set up....?  

By the way...
When you brainstorm, it's pie in the sky, and there are no wrong or right answers.  It's an exercise in creativity to get as many ideas down on paper as you can.  

Critical and deliberate thought comes later after *WE* pick one idea to design and build.

Warm Regards,

Dave


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## MadKad (Oct 6, 2008)

I want to come up with a disign, I kind of have some ideas, but need to see a vid of one that some one has made, I will see if any ideas are on youtube


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## Jones (Oct 6, 2008)

Hi Dave,

I just thought of this idea because it's the first thing I think of when I think 'cam grinder' or 'crankshaft grinder'. I think it might be a bit stronger this way, and less liable to twist than the moving camshaft design. I could be completely wrong, I've never built anything like this, but it seems that this one could be made easier to build.
However, I can see that with the original design proposed it would be easier to get the 12:1 reduction on the cams than on this design.

I found a pic of a cam grinder which has already been built which looks very similar to the model I made:





Im interested to hear everyone's opinions on the two different designs, and new ideas.


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## steamer (Oct 6, 2008)

Great Post Jones,

Now thats what WE are looking for....."heres what I think and why" Perfect!

It sure gets the juices going!

By the way, the base of that machine appears to be a table saw top.  I think there was a right up in HSM on a cam grinder that used a table saw top.

The arm appears to be a miter saw arm maybe?

Thanks! Let's keep the thread and information flowing in.  We can pick the best parts of it all and design our own.

Dave


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## wareagle (Oct 6, 2008)

Here's a thought regarding the picture that Jones has posted... Instead of having the master cam near the cam blank, why not have the master cam behind the pivot point? This would allow for altering the ratio between the master and blank more so than a design similar to this. 

I like the stationary base and the rigidity it offers. The drawback I see to it is the weight and possibly the final size the machine would be. This might make it hard to work with in the HS environment, and storage of the unit will certainly need to be considered as well. Thoughts??

I really think that when we are done with this project, we will have the best design for a cam grinder suitable for use in the HS.


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## steamer (Oct 6, 2008)

Hi W/E,

What the "back pivot" design that Jones published brings is the ability to swing the wheel up out of the way for inspection and measurement.  Look how much room you have to get a set of mics in or even mount and indicator stand.  I think a "monolithic" flat base has some advantages too from the perspective that it's easier to measure flatness, parallelism and run out from a qualified surface. However, I don't think we need one as big as a saw table.

Something maybe 12" x 18" would be about the right size. How about an import black granite surface plate?
Drill some holes and bond in some steel inserts with epoxy.  It's done in industry all the time.
www.landis-us.com, www.nanotechsys.com, for instance.

......more for the pile of ideas ;D


Dave


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## wareagle (Oct 6, 2008)

I think we are getting some great thoughts here. Let's get a few more then hash out a set of specs. My thought is we aren't too far from deciding on a design and firing up the old 'puters.


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## steamer (Oct 6, 2008)

MadKad,

How did you make out? Did you sketch up your idea?

We would like to see any and all! ;D

Dave


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## dparker (Oct 6, 2008)

Hello All: Here is a slightly different view of the same grinder shown by Jones as seen at the 2006 GEARS show. It may help you see the side of the shafts and how they are driven.





 I too am interested in this but have never seen one in action and probably will never need one but----maybe someday------the desire is there to make a multi-cylinder engine but drive is not so hot for such a long project.
I wish you luck in your endeavors and will be watching with interest.
don


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## John S (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks for that last pic.
I guessed it was driven by a geared motor.
Now I'm not trying to be funny but that machine in the pic is so simple and well laid out that most people shown be able to make something like this with only their own sketches.
.


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## steamer (Oct 7, 2008)

The best designs are those that you look at and say........(&*^# ,I can do that!

Dave


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## MadKad (Oct 7, 2008)

steamer  said:
			
		

> MadKad,
> 
> How did you make out? Did you sketch up your idea?
> 
> ...



I have been really thinking into this and really the only idea I can really come up with would be using a jig/profile idea that can be adjusted like some have been done in the designs up there.

I am just really trying to think if my idea would work, if I think it will I will try and cad the design up


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## crankshafter (Oct 13, 2008)

Hello everybody.
Is there anyone doing progress on consruction of the camshaft grinder.
Let us see some drawings ;D 
CS


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## crankshafter (Oct 20, 2008)

Steamer. MadKad. Wareagel & the rest.
Is there any progress on the Cam Grinding Fixture plans ???
Been some kind of quiet on this topic for some time  please show us something if you have done progress.
ok ok ok I'll go back to my Upshure's Twin- plans for the rest of the evening :big:

CS


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## wareagle (Oct 20, 2008)

No, I haven't accomplished much on the design. Have had too many other irons in the fire recently.

Anyone else??


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## steamer (Oct 21, 2008)

W/E and all,

ditto..............

I'll get back to it in a bit.........other priorities


Dave


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## wareagle (Nov 15, 2008)

Pulling this one out of the heap...

Anyone still interested in taking this on??


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## jimmybondi (Nov 16, 2008)

i'm still on it - but very "unsimilar"

i try to made a all2one grinder 

cylindrical, cone and (very) (un-)cylindrical - and as i'm very automated - it has to be CNC 
(i'ld like to grind several different cams in one setup also as cranks)

at the moment i'm sketching on the basics and don't want to urge myself into a "dead end"

another guy brough me into embarrassment as he say that such universal should also
support surface grind  (not very large grind area - maybe 2" by 5")


Frank

if anyone is interested in my "work" can take a look to this PDF:
http://irc.global-radio.ch/img/Rundschleife/Baugruppe.pdf


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## Metal Mickey (Nov 16, 2008)

I am interested in this issue as i have at least one cam for a 4cylinder engine next year and possibly 2 others later on next year so a cam grinding fixture is high on my list of to do's.....


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## wareagle (Nov 16, 2008)

We are coming into a bad time of the year to get thing rolling... My time will sporadic, but anyone else for making this thing go??


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