# Modding a Spindex



## Bogstandard (Aug 18, 2008)

Before I start on this post, I will mention that this was done to a brand new spindex, and the unit as purchased was perfectly good for what it is intended to do. I did the modifications purely to make it easier for me to set up on the mill and to allow it to be used in my vice.

Basically, what I am going to do is make the base of the unit smaller to allow if to fit in my vice jaws, and to fit a bar onto the bottom to allow it to be dropped into one of the t-slots on the mill bed, clamp down and be ready for use without having to level it all up first.

This is what one looks like when it falls apart, with a bit of help from me.
The only difference with this one, is that it has been modified for the retailer to accept both 5c and ER32 collets.








Because I want to fit this without having to check for levels, I needed a datum to work with. The only component that fits the bill is the unit's spindle. Get this level with the table and square to the already checked for squareness t-slots, and work from that.
In a previous post from my workshop rebuild, I made some brass bar that was a nice push fit into the t-slots. I cut it into two, and put them into the table slots, as shown. Then pushed a matched pair of v-blocks against the slot blocks, and popped the spindle into the v's.
While the spindle was in this position, I carefully checked for runout along the top.







Then against the side face. Everything was spot on.
I now had the datum I could work to. So the main casting was assembled onto the spindle upside down and everything was clamped up, making sure the spindle was down into the v's and the v's were against the slot blocks. The spindle was then clamped down. The main casting was then jacked and clamped in position, plus they were adjusted so that when a circular tram was done on the base, everything was in the right position and level.







The base was skimmed with a 3 thou cut using a fly cutter, just to give me a guaranteed square and level face in relation to the spindle.







If you squint and look at the area in the middle on the circle, it shows the fly cutting machining pattern. If you can see both fwds and back cutting patterns overlapping, that is a sure sign your tramming for the head is spot on.
Lesson over, get on with the job. I had a piece of BMS bar that fitted perfectly into the slots on the table. A slot was cut into the base, exactly the same width as the bar (and slots).







The bar was fitted into the groove, to check there was no side play.







Bar was clamped, drilled and counterbored. The base casting was drilled and tapped to match the holes on the location bar.
Everything was cleaned up and the bar screwed into its final position.







I machined the bar to a thickness of about 1/4" protruding above the baseplate, and rounded over the edges. This ensured it will fit nicely into the table slots, without getting itself jammed on the bits of rough stuff or machining marks in the slots.
That was the location bit sorted, now for getting it so that it fits in my vice. Front to back was no problem as that was under the 4" (plus a bit) my vice jaws open, side to side was the problem, so I decided to remove 1/2" from each side face to get me within easy fitting limits.







The location bar needed to be cleaned up on the ends anyhow, so I took a skim off both casting end faces at the same time. Because I had set up the datum on the spindle, all cuts on the base will be perfectly square to the said spindle, so why not get everything done at the same time. 







The side faces then had the 1/2" removed from either side.
Now is the time to find out if my setup and machining is out of wack.
A good clean down and basic assembly of the unit. This was then clamped to the table (no hand detectable side play in the slots). A collet and bar was fitted and the whole lot trammed up.







Half a thou runout along the top face, from the collet to about 4" out.







Along the side face, for the same checking distance, just over 1.5 thou. I expected this because of the minor imperfections in the table slots. I am very happy to work with those sorts of tolerances, in the knowledge I could most probably only have got that close using a manual setup anyway. To have it as a drop in and clamp, no further checking, grins all round.







Now for a few mods that I thought necessary.
Firstly, the main disc isn't locked onto the main spindle, so a bit of rough machining could cause it to move out of register as the spindle rotated inside the disc. I did a quick check, hoping to put a small locking pin between the two, the disc was soft enough, but the spindle was too hard to drill. So I assembled the disc, spindle and locking collar using Loctite engineering adhesive. That, hopefully, should prevent anything untowards happening.
The next little mod was to drill a lubrication hole and cup into the casting. Just to put a drop of thin oil in, and keep everything turning smoothly.
I am a bit of a stickler in that things should be right. The little Chinese chap that had stamped the indicator mark to show angle position, was either cross eyed or he had a bit too much rice wine the night before, because it was showing a couple of degrees out. I just machined out the old mark and popped one of my own on there in the correct position.







Back end.







Front end.






Job done, pleased with the results, and it showed that my machine was accurate enough.

Happy bunny John


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## GailInNM (Aug 18, 2008)

John,
As you noted in another thread, I am a REALLY old f**t, so my Spindex is also older than yours, about 35 years older. I modified mine in much the same way as your did yours and the greatly improves the operation, ease and pleasure in using it. So I do recommend that others follow your directions and clean theirs up to make them more serviceable. It is time well spent. Thanks for doing the tutorial. 

One very simple additional modification that I did to mine was to add a 0.010 thick PTFE (Teflon) washer on the drawbar. It just slides on the drawbar and goes between the drawbar handle/knob and the spindle. It makes it much easier to tighten and loosen the collet by reducing the friction. If an appropriate thrust bearing ever falls into my bearing box I will probably put it in, but the PTFE does a good job so I won't go to much effort to change it.

Gail in NM,USA


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## John S (Aug 18, 2008)

These spindexers do lend them selves to being modded as they are really cheap and well made items.

Here's mine that has seen many other mads as well.






.


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## zeusrekning (Aug 18, 2008)

John I'm glad you posted this. I would recommend doing exactly what Bog has done the way he has done. This should be like removing the cosmolene after purchasing a new machine. It is a little bit of a chore to do and to do accurately but is very worth it.
Glad to see you are more patient than I John.
Tim


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## Loose nut (Aug 18, 2008)

I just bought the exact same one two weeks ago, so this will be on my projects list.

These articles are becoming better than you can get in HSM or Model Engineer magazines, forums like this will become the magazines of tomorrow.


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## ksouers (Aug 19, 2008)

John,
Very nice tutorial, thanks for posting it. Well planned and executed.

I especially appreciate the detail you provided. Breaking down a job as you did to basic operations really helps us that don't have as much experience at such things.


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## SmoggyTurnip (Aug 19, 2008)

Nice job Bogs.

I am just wondering about using the runout as a test of the setup.
Wouldn't the runout be determined by the quality of the tool rather than the alignment to the table.

Lets say you had the spindex at a 45 degree angle to the table - would the runout be any different?


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## Bogstandard (Aug 19, 2008)

Smogs,

The way I did it was to use the outside face of the mandrel as the datum, so because I had machined to that, in theory the unit will be square in all areas. As you say the bits inside the mandrel I had no control over, and have to rely on the manufacturer to do a good job. To verify that I will have to put a selection of different collets and bar sizes into the spindle to verify that my machining is spot on. But because these units are not built to be a high precision item, I think the tolerances that I encountered are well within its expected operating range, and I would be very pleased if it stays within these measured tolerances. Also remember, the max readings mentioned were about four inches from the collet. The closer you work to the collet, the smaller the error is.

Anyway, many thanks to all who have commented.

This is no super duper modern upgrade, as Gail said, it is an old technique. But because I was carrying it out on a piece of my equipment, I thought I would catalogue it, and show how I did it. The articles from many years ago used to say (accompanied by one pic of the finished article) machine a groove in the base and put a bit of bar the same width as the slots into the groove. Not very instructive at all. Maybe now it is a bit clearer as to why and how it is done.

No more modifying or machining for a while, I am trying to get into the wife's good books (grovelling), by putting tiles down in the living room and hall. So that will take me at least 3 or 4 days.

John


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## ksouers (Aug 19, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> No more modifying or machining for a while, I am trying to get into the wife's good books (grovelling), by putting tiles down in the living room and hall. So that will take me at least 3 or 4 days.



Hmm, I think we now know why you were banned from painting the shop.

Or at least the true cost of the new machinery...


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## Bogstandard (Aug 19, 2008)

Kevin,

Money has never been cause for dispute in my household, what is my wife's is also mine, and mine is mine.

In fact the dispute was caused by myself.

I was caught red handed in my shop, when I had been banned for the day because of my health issues. So all my own fault. One for going in the shop, and two, getting caught. Even the dog was on her side, he didn't inform me she had just got back from shopping like he normally does.

Bogs


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## ksouers (Aug 19, 2008)

Ah, your household sounds much like my own.

I have heart problems, two heart attacks and a minor stroke in my history. My wife is relentless in making me eat properly and won't allow certain activity when the temperature is too high, frequent in summertime.

I hope you understand I was trying to be humorous.

As for the true cost of things...
We keep separate bank accounts plus a joint account for the household that gets funded from each of us once a month. Our money is our money, hers is hers and mine is mine. However, when I spend my money on hobbies there must be an "in kind" expenditure around the house, usually in the form of honey-do's. Thus my attempt at humor, for me the cost of new tools is the money plus remodeling the loo.


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## CrewCab (Aug 19, 2008)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> for me the cost of new tools is the money plus remodeling the loo.



Thank God for that  8)  I'm glad to see it's not just me ;D

CC


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## BobWarfield (Aug 20, 2008)

Just like keying a vise!

Do you all key you vises as well?

Best,

BW


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## Bogstandard (Aug 20, 2008)

Bob,

I haven't done any of my vices, but I will be doing it on my RT's, and the dividing head is already done.
The reason being, when it is keyed on, they are within my acceptable limits, but I like to have my vice spot on, with no tolerance. So I just clock that up every time.

John


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## Bill Mc (Aug 18, 2009)

Hi Bogstandard - Thanks for this post. I have purchased the exact same 5C Spin Indexer while it was on sale at Busy Bee Tools just in case I decide to attempt to cut my own gears in the future with a flycutter setup. I will File this post away for future reference. This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back to HMEM almost daily as a learning tool. You guys are great! - Billmc


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## vlmarshall (Aug 18, 2009)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> Do you all key your vises as well?



No, I don't like a key sticking out of the bottom of a vise, as I don't always want a vise square to the table, and I wouldn't trust the key to keep the vise square anyway. So, as long as I've got the DTI out, I'll start from scratch.


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