# Shop lights



## Gordon

Does anyone have input on shop lights? I currently have tube fluorescent lights but they seem to have a flickering problem after a time. I am wondering about LED lights. I am talking about ceiling fixtures, not individual machine lights. There seem to be quite a variety of fixtures ranging from $20 to $150. What could I replace my 4 foot and 8 foot fixtures with and is it worth it? Also what do LED light do to true color?


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## michael-au

Hi
I have changed all the fluorescent tube lights in my workshop for LED tubes, no flickering and heaps brighter

Michael


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## Gordon

Can the standard 4 foot fluorescence bulbs just be replaced by LED bulbs? I did not realize that. I will have to take a look. One problem is that most of the shop lights are 8 foot.


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## rlukens

https://images.homedepot-static.com...7a5/svn/ge-lamp-accessories-18305-64_1000.jpg
I replaced all my fluorescent fixtures with a keyless fixtures and LED bulbs... cheap and effective.


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## Gordon

It looks like I can purchase a retrofit kit for the 8 foot fixtures to replace the two 8 foot bulbs with four 4 foot bulbs. Amazon has the kit for about $9+$5 shipping. Some of the bulbs state that you do not need a ballast and others seem to indicate that a ballast is required. Kind of confusing. I will talk to my electrician friend on Saturday.


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## RonGinger

There are two types of 4ft LED tubes. One is a direct plug in and still uses the old ballast. It only works with certain ballasts. The other requires a simple re-wire of the fixture. I didnt know the difference so wound up with both types in my shop. I bought a few first to test, then when I got the rest I found out about the difference.

In any case I really like the LEDs. I got the bright white and to my old eyes they make things much easier to see. I have also switched all the task specific lights to LEDs.

Get tie ones that require the re-wire, no point in keeping old ballasts around.


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## bobs7-62steamair

This past year I replaced all my 4' flourscent lights with 4' LED fixtures from Wal Mart at $35 each, Wow What a difference, better lighting, no flickering, no bulb replacement/disposal issues, less energy consumed. Fantastic to say the least!


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## Gordon

Thanks all. Looks like the answer is to purchase a retrofit kit for the 8 foot and then either just replace the bulbs with the ones requiring a ballast in the 4 foot or rewire them. I have three 8 foot and two 4 foot. I will probably just replace them as they burn out or start to flicker.


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## Wizard69

Hi Gordon;

My shop is basement based at the moment.   When i moved the basement had two 60 watt bulbs on each side.   As you can imagine pretty worthless for old eyes.  

Over the years i replaced those with various 4 foot fixtures.  Frankly in placed i had to do this twice as i underestimated the light required for some work.  

About three tears ago i started to replace failed fixtures with LED tubes.   This is relatively easy on a 4' fixture.  I used the LED tubes that require ballast removal.  As noted above the other type only work with certain ballasts.  In my case with many fixtures purchased over time, it wasn't worth figuring out which ballast would work.  

So if you go with what is called a ballast bypass LED bulb you will find yourself having to remove the old ballast and wire the fixture as the instructions say.  This is not a big deal if you are somewhat familiar with  electrical wiring.  It might be 5-10 minutes per fixture.   Then you just plug the bulb in, power up and you have bright lite.  

Now about those bulbs.   First the come in various color temperatures actually i believe there are three different color temperatures.   I chose day light.   

In any event these bulbs are very bright.   In many locations i replaced two fluorescent bulbs with one.   Each fixture though is wired to support two bulbs.    Im very pleased with the light output.   

I would take the time to figure out if current lighting is good enough.   If you are working on the light it is a good time to correct any dark spots in the shop.   This especially over a work bench or stationary tool.  

Now all of that being said id be careful to look at the condition of your fixtures because the reality is some fixture can be had pretty cheap if you catch a sale.  Ive replaced a few ceiling fixtures in the house with new LED fixtures and have gotten excellent results from round and square units.   Im pretty sure such fixture would work well in a shop.  You can also find unitized 4 ft LED fixtures on sale at competitive prices. 

I suspect that some of these discounted fixture are the result of discontinued items.  

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that LED bulb replacement makes sense in most cases.   However if you need to change the lighting layout or have really old fixtures you might want to consider alternative fixtures.  Either way you wont be disappointed.  


Gordon said:


> It looks like I can purchase a retrofit kit for the 8 foot fixtures to replace the two 8 foot bulbs with four 4 foot bulbs. Amazon has the kit for about $9+$5 shipping. Some of the bulbs state that you do not need a ballast and others seem to indicate that a ballast is required. Kind of confusing. I will talk to my electrician friend on Saturday.


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## Wizard69

Gordon said:


> Thanks all. Looks like the answer is to purchase a retrofit kit for the 8 foot and then either just replace the bulbs with the ones requiring a ballast in the 4 foot or rewire them. I have three 8 foot and two 4 foot. I will probably just replace them as they burn out or start to flicker.




If it was me id use the ballast bypass bulbs.  This especially in the 4 ft fixtures.  In the 8 ft fixtures you may have no choice but to go the bypass route.   

Even so id look closely at the cost of complete fixture replacement. By the time you add up the cost of the bulbs and adapter kit new fixtures will be very closely priced.


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## DJP

Mounting tube lamps to create a continuous line of light will provide the best coverage as the distance from the bulbs is not as critical for loss. 1/d instead of 1/d squared I think is the math. Long strings of lighting are the best.


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## velocette

Hi
LED tube replacements is the way to go for better and cheaper lighting. Removed the ballasts and joined the two feeder wires. Removed the starters and replaced them with the Fuse Link Starters supplied with the LED Tubes. No point in leaving the ballast  installed using power to no advantage.   

Eric


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## Gordon

Latest update on this. I ordered the retrofit kit from Home Depot for the 8 foot lights. After doing more investigation I found out that the replacement LED lights were only going to produce about half the light that the existing lights will produce. Kind of confusing because the florescent lights are rated in watts and the LED lights are rated in lumens. Once I did some conversion I decided that this was not a good plan. The salesman who I talked to at Home Depot knew about what bulbs to use but did not know about the light output. I called HD and tried to cancel the order but I was told that it could not be canceled in spite of the fact that it was not shipping until 4/12. I just got an email from HD that they were sorry that they could not ship my order because the item was not available. Looks like at least that part worked out even though they had already charged my credit card.

The LED lights operate cheaper but if it takes twice as many lights it is not a good fix.

My 8 foot lights are F96/T12 High Output which give about 8300 lumens and the 4 foot LED give about 3300 lumens.  

Heads up for others looking at this. Look at the actual light output not just the operating cost. If you are replacing 4 foot standard florescence fixtures it probably is a good move.


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## Journeyman

It is worth remembering that fluorescent tubes lose brightness quite quickly, very noticeable when replacing just one tube and the others are a few years old. Another point is that whilst the LED tubes may seem lower output they are in fact directional in that the light goes down so none wasted lighting the ceiling. That is because the tubes are basically LED strips stuck to a flat plate and enclosed in a plastic tube. You can do without the tube and just buy the LED's in reels with a self adhesive backing. Just stick wherever you need them. The tapes can be bent, cut and joined they have one LED about every 50mm. You use a connecter to join the strips or connect to the 12v power feed. The tubes have the power supply added at one end to create the 12v - Just a thought!

** Amazon UK Link **

John


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## ShopShoe

FWIW,

Regarding the directionality  of the LEDs, I saw this last year and it might be worth considering:

https://youtu.be/55VGKmVHQ64

I myself have also been using (and liking) the 8-ft. fluorescents, but I may consider the LEDs in the future. I also have a lot of the 4-footers, so there is probably someplace to start converting.

--ShopShoe


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## Gordon

Directionality is probably more of a factor in larger shops. My shop main working area is about 20' x 20' with an 8' ceiling so I am generally right under a light when I am working. I like the idea of using less electricity for lighting but if it requires twice as many fixtures to accomplish the same brightness it is not really a good solution. I have two 4' fixtures, one directly over the mill and one at the cutoff bandsaw. In addition I have goose neck type lights with LED bulbs directly shining on the work area at the individual machines.  

I am satisfied with the present lighting but I was looking for more efficiency and less electrical usage. I think that at this point I will try just replacing the tubes in the 4' light over the mill with LED and see how that goes.

At 78 having a bulb which lasts 40 years is not a big plus. I am not too likely to live long enough to actually offset the cost of conversion. 




ShopShoe said:


> FWIW,
> 
> Regarding the directionality  of the LEDs, I saw this last year and it might be worth considering:
> 
> https://youtu.be/55VGKmVHQ64
> 
> I myself have also been using (and liking) the 8-ft. fluorescents, but I may consider the LEDs in the future. I also have a lot of the 4-footers, so there is probably someplace to start converting.
> 
> --ShopShoe


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## Cogsy

About 3 weeks ago I replaced the standard 4 foot twin tube flouro in my kitchen with a twin tube 3800 lumen LED fixture. The difference in brightness is astonishing, even taking in to account the way fluorescent tubes dim over their lifespan, the kitchen has never been this bright (and no longer will I have the issue of dimming tubes to deal with). When the funds allow I'll be replacing all the fixtures in the shed with the same type.


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## deverett

Cogsy said:


> About 3 weeks ago I replaced the standard 4 foot twin tube flouro in my kitchen with a twin tube 3800 lumen LED fixture. The difference in brightness is astonishing, even taking in to account the way fluorescent tubes dim over their lifespan, the kitchen has never been this bright (and no longer will I have the issue of dimming tubes to deal with). When the funds allow I'll be replacing all the fixtures in the shed with the same type.



Just curious, Cogsy.  What colour LED did you go for? A quick look and I see Cool White, Daylight or Warm White variations.  I wonder whether there is any benefit in selecting a particular colour for a particular room.  As an example, would cool white be a bit harsh in some places?

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## Wizard69

Dave
I went with daylight in the hopes that colors would look similar to natural lighting.   So far (partial conversion) it seems to be working out well.    If you want to do photography the light output (color temp) matters, at least in the days of film it did.   So photography is another consideration.  


deverett said:


> Just curious, Cogsy.  What colour LED did you go for? A quick look and I see Cool White, Daylight or Warm White variations.  I wonder whether there is any benefit in selecting a particular colour for a particular room.  As an example, would cool white be a bit harsh in some places?
> 
> Dave
> The Emerald Isle





Another thing that people should know is that LED's do dim over time.   At least in some cases life span is based on the LED dimming to 80%.   Considering that some of these bulbs are rated for 50,000 hours that is a very long time.


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## Cogsy

I went with the only colour they had in stock which was the "cool white". It's fine for the kitchen and is a very stark white, probably way too harsh for a living room, etc. but would be great in the shed. Quoted lifespan on these tubes was 30,000 hours.


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## blueywa

I replaced all my shed flouro's.
Bought 4ft LED tubes from bunnies, they came with a 'false' starter and its definitely plug n play.
No flicker,and saves a few dollars in running costs.


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## deverett

Thanks Cogsy.  
I wondered about the harshness of cool white but in my workshop I only have a small north facing window, so the cool white might be OK when it comes time to change from the fluorescent tubes.
On the rare warm, windless days, I open the  roller door to let in more light (my workshop is a single garage).

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## blueywa

My shed/workshop is freestanding in my backyard.
The gable roof faces east-west so I get the sunlight coming up in the east and down in the west.
It is clad with corrugated sheeting, but I installed a few transparent 'Polycarbonate sheets' as well.
This allows daylight in even on overcast days, and so I don't need lighting until night time.
The transparent sheets do let the heat in as well, so on the 40 celcious days I use shade cloth under them.
The shade cloth is stapled into lightweight wooden frames which I made to suit.
All that aside, the LED's I use are 'daylight' rated and having the 'false starter' means there is no need to worry about ballasts etc. it just replaces the old starter, so power goes direct to LED tube giving instant start up and as said before zero flicker.
I have two banks of ceiling mounted lights, and since switching to LED's I only need to turn on one bank.
And being rated at 30 thousands plus hours I recon they should do the job for a while.. :thumbup:


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## bobs7-62steamair

Gordon said:


> Does anyone have input on shop lights? I currently have tube fluorescent lights but they seem to have a flickering problem after a time. I am wondering about LED lights. I am talking about ceiling fixtures, not individual machine lights. There seem to be quite a variety of fixtures ranging from $20 to $150. What could I replace my 4 foot and 8 foot fixtures with and is it worth it? Also what do LED light do to true color?


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## bobs7-62steamair

Have Replaced all my Fluoro lights with 4 Ft LED's, FANTASTIC improvement in lighting quantity and quality. Not sure what the color is but they are quantum leaps better than any fluro tube light I ever used. Ava locally at SAMS and WALMART in the $35 to $39 range for a 4 foot unit. Of course they consume much less power and will probably last the rest of my lifetime. Probably the best overall improvement I ever made to my shop!


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## tim9lives

https://www.hyperikon.com/products/led-shop-lights/
Amazon has them for 59.00 each. I couldn’t be happier with these shop lights.


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## bbutcher85

I replaced some 4 foot fluorescent bulbs with cheap ($5 ea from E-bay) LED bulbs. I shopped around and found bulbs that produce  1584 lumens. Although this is less than the old fluorescent ones (2850 initial), the LED lamps are directional and the light goes where it is wanted. The fluorescent lamps and reflectors waste some of their light. Visually the LEDs are at least as bright as the old lamps.
The LED lamps are direct wire, meaning eliminate the ballast. After a few months, they started to strobe (flicker does not describe it). At first they would flash for a few minutes and then stay on, but it got worse and eventually they would be off more than on. It turns out these LED lamps have an electronic driver board to convert the 110 AC to about 72 Volts DC. The driver board can be easily accessed by sliding one end pin assembly off the LED bulb.There are three electrolytic capacitors on the board, and at least one of them was degrading. I purchased 100 of each size from Mouser electronics and replaced all three which solved the problem. It may come back since even the new capacitors are rated for 5,000 hours. The LEDs may last 50,000 hours, but the driver electronics will probably not last that long. Easy fix and cost only about $0.35 to fix each lamp.


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## LSAGuy

I've had the same experience with LED's. Amazingly bright, especially when compared side by side with fluorescents. Costco has two LED bulbs for $14.99 so every time I go I pick up a couple of boxes (I have 10 hanging lights in the work section of my hangar). Really made my paint booth brighter. Now if they could just do the painting for me, too. :-}


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## DJP

Many decades ago I converted outdoor incandescent bulbs at our yacht club from AC to DC. On rural AC the bulbs burnt out quickly but on DC they would last for 10 to 20 years. The reason that I mention this is that my conversion was from 120VAC to 75VDC and it was accomplished by a single diode in the neutral line. Half wave rectified DC reduced the light output but the bulbs would last a very long time. I also know the issue of capacitor failure in miniature electronics. A swollen capacitor is the first thing to look for as their life is limited. If you have an inexpensive LED tube that can be used for testing, try a simple diode in series to see if the resulting DC component will operate the lamp. When sized correctly diodes last a long long time too.

Just sharing some experience that may be useful again.


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## oldchadders

Gordon said:


> Does anyone have input on shop lights? I currently have tube fluorescent lights but they seem to have a flickering problem after a time. I am wondering about LED lights. I am talking about ceiling fixtures, not individual machine lights. There seem to be quite a variety of fixtures ranging from $20 to $150. What could I replace my 4 foot and 8 foot fixtures with and is it worth it? Also what do LED light do to true color?



You could use "high Frequency" flourescents which look identical to normal ones but run ant a higher frequency, thus no visible flicker. These also have the benefit that they do not cause rotting machinery to be stationary - you need a hf fitting with hf tubes.


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## oldchadders

DJP said:


> Many decades ago I converted outdoor incandescent bulbs at our yacht club from AC to DC. On rural AC the bulbs burnt out quickly but on DC they would last for 10 to 20 years. The reason that I mention this is that my conversion was from 120VAC to 75VDC and it was accomplished by a single diode in the neutral line. Half wave rectified DC reduced the light output but the bulbs would last a very long time. I also know the issue of capacitor failure in miniature electronics. A swollen capacitor is the first thing to look for as their life is limited. If you have an inexpensive LED tube that can be used for testing, try a simple diode in series to see if the resulting DC component will operate the lamp. When sized correctly diodes last a long long time too.
> 
> Just sharing some experience that may be useful again.


 The reason that the bulbs last longer is because they are dissipating less power, as they are only working on half of the ac cycle. The thing that really kills incandescent bulbs is the surge when they are switched on from cold. The ideal power supply would be smooth dc, ie not simply rectified ac, but more like a battery supply.


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## Em14

I did quite a bit of 'internet" research before I made the jump to LED change from flouresecent to LED in our closet!  Then I ordered the kit with bulbs and when it arrived was amazed at how easy the conversion was.  Since I'm very Senior, I don't think I will out live the LEDs .... I have gotten quite good at changing out the #*XXXX ballast as they never last very long.  Therefore I almost had a Parade to bury the Closets' Ballast!  Even the Devil would not come get it!  Now I'm a Happy and well lit Camper!  Just belive what the instruction say and be careful how you handle those sharpe edges on the fixture!
Leo


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## DJP

oldchadders said:


> The reason that the bulbs last longer is because they are dissipating less power, as they are only working on half of the ac cycle. The thing that really kills incandescent bulbs is the surge when they are switched on from cold. The ideal power supply would be smooth dc, ie not simply rectified ac, but more like a battery supply.


Agreed, as the original Edison bulb running on pure battery DC is still burning in a NYC museum. However, the practical (low cost) solution to timer controlled lighting was to use a diode with a screw base that could be mounted directly on the neutral bus of a panel box. That change to DC for all lamps on that circuit saved huge costs in bulbs, labour and safety. 

My curiosity is whether such a simple change would power LED lamps and remove the weakness of a miniature power supply.


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## cuhlik

I bought 25 T-12 LED bulbs (4ft) for $119 on eBay.  Search for "4 Foot T8 Bulbs 18w LED Tube Light Lamp Single-End".  These connect directly to 120vac.  You need to remove the existing ballast.  But the result is at least 50% more light and roughly 2/3 the power, instant on at all temperatures, and no flickering.  I'm never going back!


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## tjwal

I wired up a bunch of sockets like #2, and use BR30 LEDs.  I found the sockets at a Reno re-use store.  I replaced 3 x 4 tube fixtures with about 20 fixtures.  There’s lots of light but the ceiling is pretty busy. lol. . New cost would be about $6 Canadian per light, counting material I already had it was closer to $4.  

Led tubes look interesting but they’re still a bit rare and pricy at the local stores.


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## rmd55

Two things about lighting.  1. The color of the light makes a difference in the apparent brightness of the light.   The shorter wave length of the cool white, more blue, appears brighter than a warm white white more yellow or daylight.  I have 3800 lum T8's in my shop and just put up a cool white led at 3300 lum .   It appears almost twice as bright as the T8.  2.  Your high output flor uses more watts to put out those 8300 lums.  High output fixtures have different ballasts that have higher watt ratings to run the high output bulbs there are also Very High Output bulbs.


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## madmike

heres my 2 tenths regarding led lights. i purchased 1 led single strip  complete fixture- 16.95 @ rural king.  lit up the area above my dpm mill so well i couldnt see the screen without placing a visor over the top of the display. i figured i knew something about lumens ,i was wrong . these lights put out a cleaner brighter light than high output floros . i bought 20 more replaced all my shop lights,even 8 footers . my electric bill went down 52.00 a month!!!! the work areas are like standing in sunlight .. these even have a plug in the sides,and dont buy the double rows they cost more but appeared the same output to me..


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## madmike

this is a added comment regarding the leds, ive had old ballasts melt and catch fire,makes you nervous even if your building is  block.. ive worked at many shops with the old tubes pain in the a$$ ,and i even tried the high bay lights real costly to operate even on 208v, id say throw em on the scrap heap takes the bulbs to a haz recycling center...


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## adolfgalland

I also have been replacing fluorescents as they die with 4 foot LED units. I am buying Smart Electrician brand from Menards. Mine are the single unit with 4200 lumens and 4000k bright white which is in the mid range between warm and daylight.
I am very happy with them and when on sale they are a good deal.       Gary


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## wolframore

I have had LED light fixtures in my garage for a couple years now.  I will never go back!  The light never needs a "warm up" period in the winter and never gets hot in the summer.    They use less power and produce more light!  I want more of them!  The fixtures are becoming an inexpensive thing now.  It's cheaper to replace the fixture than to mess with bulbs and rewiring your old fluorescent ballasts.


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## stuartblack

I bought a cool white light for the kitchen and found although was crisp light I couldnt tell if meat was cooked. It looked raw. I changed to warm white was not crisp but I could see if the meat was cooked. If it was me ide try both warm and cool white. Perhaps cool is best in one spot and warm in another. ?


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## boxersatheart

Watch for a sale at your local Sams CLub....  Got my 4 foot LED shop lights for $25 each!  They come with all cords and such and can be ganged up to ten in a single row!  BRIGHT!!!!!!!


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## Anatol

once upon a time there were no fluro tubes. Shop lighting was big bulbs in those (now fashionable) 'industrial' shades. Tubes have the advantage of not casting strong shadows, but flicker can be dangerous in shop. Maybe the days of tubes are over. Not sure I'd pay a premium to buy leds that are remanufactured to fit onto tube housings.  If your tubes are getting old, or if setting up a new shop, I'd look at newer led options. I bought some amazing 110v COB floods on Amazon for $5 each, (COB is the led technology that looks like  a patch of yellow pollen). These things are amazing (Chinese of course) -  small (about 5"x5"), light, cool, efficient, bright and will probably last forever. They install with one screw - and a couple of wire nuts or such.


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## harborfreight8x12

Hi.  FWIW, I have tried the LED 4' lights from Sams Club and love them.  Just plug and play.  I have also been confused and tried the replacement bulbs for existing florescent lights, both the ballast and re-wire types.  I most definately prefer the re-wire ballast by-pass type simply because it's dangerous to keep an old ballast as I have had them catch fire.  Now, I would never go with the LED bulbs that keep the ballast.
Kind regards, Al


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## lemelman

I'm in UK and have just replaced the six 6ft florescent tubes with LEDs which I purchased from  Lampshoponline. The price was much better than anywhere else I could find, and fitting was straightforward. I just had to remove all the florescent starter stuff and wire just one end to the input mains cable. The tubes are powered from one end only  - the pins at the other end are only for support. I removed all wiring from the support end.
The difference is very noticeable; instant start, no flickering, reduced running costs, and more light. Well worth the effort.


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## terryp

Changed my shop lights to LED last winter when I got tired of dim flickering lights in a cold shop. Went with the direct wire variety that does away with the noisy ballast. Love the instant and silent bright light, cheaper to run, too. I see it's been a few months since your post but got mine from "1000bulbs". Terry


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## bobs7-62steamair

bobs7-62steamair said:


> This past year I replaced all my 4' flourscent lights with 4' LED fixtures from Wal Mart at $35 each, Wow What a difference, better lighting, no flickering, no bulb replacement/disposal issues, less energy consumed. Fantastic to say the least!



For those of you having access to Sam's they currently sell Honeywell 4 ft LED shop light fixtures for $29.95, just installed 4 of these for my 225 Sq Ft shop addition for fantastic and economical lighting!


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## Charles Lamont

We have just moved house. The last van, with my worksop contents arrives tomorrow. The worksop will be in a double garage currently with two 5ft fittings. So from the lighting point of view I can start from scratch. With what?


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## DJP

You should plan to build continuous strings of lighting placed as necessary for your shop layout. A line or string of 4 foot tubes provides the best light distibution.


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## mu38&Bg#

Fwiw, cheap chinaco LED tube replacements are just that. The drivers and/or LED are absolute garbage. Out of 4 tubes bought a few years ago, two are dead. One had LEDs die until it wouldn't run any longer. The other has a bad driver. More recently I bought tube replacements made by Hyperikon (direct wire/ballast bypass) and these so far have been OK. Those cheap COB lights are also terrible. This time I'm going to try real LED drivers and real name brand Citizen LED COBs. The cost will exceed the junk by a long shot, but it should actually last. Brand sometimes isn't even a factor as some products just slap a name brand onto this junk. I need to replace a light in a CNC machine that must be water proof. There are plenty of automotive lights on Amazon, but look at the reviews, all of them, leak or die within a year, even those carrying brand names like Hella. As the Edison base CFL in the house died off(long before their rated time), I replaced them with Cree LED. Much to my disappointment, I now have several dead Cree LED 40W replacements, which didn't even last as long as the CFL. One day they'll have this stuff sorted.

Watch a few of these  He has several video about LED quality.


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## Apprentice707

I have replaced all the fluorescent tubes in my UK workshop with LED tubes I bought from Aldi about 18 months ago. They have proved reliable and effective so far and have cut my running costs. The numerous task lights I have around the place have also been replaced with LED bulbs bought from various suppliers around the UK via the internet. Again so far so good, I have also bought bulbs direct from the Far East, but alas some of these have failed due I believe to poor quality control and final inspection. I find the best bulbs for task lighting is the "Pineapple" type with lots of LEDs on them and always buy the Cool White type of light. 
Unfortunately my eyesight is not what it used to be so I need all the light I can get for close up work as I am sure many others do!!!
A Merry Xmas to all and a Prosperous and Healthy New Year


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## mecanotrain

Hello from France,
Ditto for me in my french workshop (also bought at ALDI) 
 Merry Xmas to all.
Roger


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## CFLBob

dieselpilot said:


> As the Edison base CFL in the house died off(long before their rated time), I replaced them with Cree LED. Much to my disappointment, I now have several dead Cree LED 40W replacements, which didn't even last as long as the CFL.



A few years ago, I put a Cree light in my kitchen.  A ceiling fixture, one of those "Par 30" bulbs (40?)  When it died, I went to Cree's website and found they say they should last 25,000 hours.  I didn't have receipt or anything, but I had a pretty good idea when I replaced it.  Did some calculator work and figured it had to have less than 18,000 hours.  

So I sent them an email.  Didn't ask for anything other than information: tell me what I have to do to get that lifetime.  

The next day they replied asking for my address to send me a replacement bulb.


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## Cogsy

That's good service , especially if it lasted 18000 hours - that's roughly 2 & 1/2 years of constant of continuous 24/7 operation! From memory my LED tubes were marked with a 30,000 hour life but if they get half that I'll be happy. Even at 40 hours per week (which I don't do anywhere near in the shed) that should get me around 8 years. More importantly for me is that they switch on instantly, don't have any visible flicker, don't make any noise and (most importantly) are so much brighter than the fluorescent tubes they replaced. I'll never buy another fluoro again.


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## jdurnya

I found some nice LED Lighting for my shop on amazon...


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## Wizard69

Just a bit of an update, I had one corner of my shop basement with either no lighting at all or one four foot fluorescent fixture.  Needless to say that corner was dark!    This summer I got funds together to upgrade the lighting in this corner.  

What I went with was Lithonia Lighting’s “7” LED Versi Lite” in the 4000K color temp.   I put these on 48” centers amounting to 8 fixtures (two rows).  Since these are small round fixtures installation was very easy.  

I’m extremely happy with the light output.   The light coverage is very even.  I still have a few other fluorescent fixtures that should be replaced with new fixtures.  I will most likely go the Versi Lite route.  Especially in this case as there is all sorts of plumbing and facilities stuff to route around. 

The whole array of lights only draws about 5.6 amps which is outstanding considering the light coverage I’m getting.


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## Rod Cole

I read somewhere, and more than in one place, that over time LED take your eyes out. If I remember right it was something about the "blue" light in the spectrum being put out by the LEDs. I'm no expert on LEDs just something I read that, if true might be worth looking into for


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## petertha

I was getting close to taking the plunge, but read the reviews on this particular LED bulb & requisite ballast. Now I'm not so certain. I wonder if its a function of manufacturer or vintage of florescents or..?

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ph...nt-fit-daylight-5000k-energy-star-/1000837301


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## DJP

At our local COSTCO they sell reading glasses in multipacks. One selection is to compensate for blue spectrum light from computer screens. They essentially are light amber glass so there must be a problem for people who spend long periods at a computer screen. I know that LED bulbs can be purchased with a warmer spectrum of light but that doesn't apply to computer or phone.

The message therefore is to limit your time in a workshop if you have with blue spectrum LED lighting.


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## Cogsy

I can't see the home depot link for some reason (they've got my ISP blocked) but I assume from DJP's comment there's something about blue light exposure in the reviews. We are exposed to far more intense blue light from the suns' rays than any LED and currently there is no evidence to suggest blue light from LEDs cause any issue at all, be it circadian disruption or macular degeneration. General lighting LEDs have an advantage that they don't emit any UV light either, which can't be said for fluoro's or even CFL's (although again, the intensity is very low). There are quite a few companies trying to exploit the perceived threat with special lenses, filters, etc. but the evidence is that we have nothing to worry about. It feels a lot like the whole 'cell phones will give us all brain tumors' panic in the early 2000's.

Edit to add: If you're still concerned, consider that you're not looking directly at the lighting in your shop/house most of the time, but your LED/LCD computer monitors or TV's are emitting the same blue light and you're staring right at the thing whenever you're using it and from a much closer distance (light follows the inverse square law so double the distance reduces the intensity to 1/4). If you were going to limit exposure then you'd start with your screens (again, not necessary though).


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## Apprentice707

I replaced the main lighting in my basement workshop a couple of years back with LED tubes purchased from Aldi wow they certainly made a big difference, brighter more economical and no maintenance (Yet). I have also fitted all my machine lights with either LED bulbs or small security type lights, these work very well too.

In addition to the above, I have a selection of task lighting ie anglepoise type lights I have converted to LEDs and these help my old eyes no end.

The lights in my home are also predominately LED's and again work well with a noticeable reduction in my electric bill. I encountered some problems with dimmer circuits so I retained the halogen bulbs and since they are not used a lot don't feel guilty about their power consumption. 

On the subject of electric bills, I recently changed my tariff and knocked 17% from my monthly payment. I recommend that everyone reviews their payments annually, any savings help with the cost of model engineering these days (Maybe the subject of another  forum???)

Cheers

B


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## kquiggle

I recently replaced the old (barely working) tube fluorescent light in my garage workshop. I had been planning to put in better lighting anyway, but when the old light became unreliable I took the plunge and bought a set of four "linkable" LED workshop lights. What a difference! The garage now has bright (but not too bright) even lighting and I don't feel like I'm working in a cave any more. I recommend getting the linkable feature - makes it super easy to install a bunch of lights without having to worry about installing additional sockets or stringing extension cords.


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## Frederik

I looked for years at a computerscreen which is made of many tiny ledlights, without eyeprotection. (Type of computerscreen sunglasses. Expensive ? yes)
Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...
In other words Cogsy, you are wrong. (And I am not going to debate you, so don`t get angry or defensive, what you say is just incorrect.)

Led lights produce such a powerfull intense bright light that they will essentially blind you after a few years.
I didn`t believe it either in the beginning, I was young, what could happen right?
Now I am crying and your not, YET...

DO NOT INSTALL LED LIGHTS !!!!!! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR EYES !!!!
Yes it is more expensive in electricity if you install regular lightbulbs but at least you will be able to see in a couple of years.

Let me remind you that the regular lightbulbs are also bad for your eyes, but to a lesser degree.
You could break the intensity of the light of the regular lightbulbs by using a filter.
Don`t even bother filtering the leds, just throw them out !!

The best lightbulbs are still the old ones which they do not make anymore, you know, the ones with the tiny coiled wire in them.
Or better yet, use candles. 
I am kidding.

I hope you are reading this because you are about to **** up your life...


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## Cogsy

Frederik said:


> I looked for years at a computerscreen which is made of many tiny ledlights, without eyeprotection. (Type of computerscreen sunglasses. Expensive ? yes)
> Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
> Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...
> In other words Cogsy, you are wrong. (And I am not going to debate you, so don`t get angry or defensive, what you say is just incorrect.)
> 
> Led lights produce such a powerfull intense bright light that they will essentially blind you after a few years.
> I didn`t believe it either in the beginning, I was young, what could happen right?
> Now I am crying and your not, YET...
> 
> DO NOT INSTALL LED LIGHTS !!!!!! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR EYES !!!!



Frederik,
You may well have eye issues AND you may have used computer screens for years, BUT correlation does not equal causation. Undoubtedly you have also been consuming water for many years, using correlation, we could guess something in the water has affected your vision (or, more likely, it could simply be genetics, a disease, etc.). One anecdotal event, without any evidence at all, is not how science works. Many studies have been conducted on this topic and, so far, there is no evidence to suggest LED illumination is detrimental to vision or eye health. In the UK, it is actually against the law for medical practitioners to even suggest that blue light exposure is a cause of eye/vision problems.

Again, the sun emits light of far greater intensity (across the entire spectrum) than LED's do but we are not all blind from exposure to sunlight. Your recommendation (simple, energy hungry, filament globes) also emit intense light covering the entire visible spectrum as well as large amounts of IR and smaller amounts of UV to boot. UV light is even more energetic than blue light and is the stuff that causes sunburn. You really want to limit your exposure to UV light - again, normal utility LED's do not emit UV light and produce very little IR as well.



Frederik said:


> Let me remind you that the regular lightbulbs are also bad for your eyes, but to a lesser degree.
> You could break the intensity of the light of the regular lightbulbs by using a filter.



You could also just close your eyes or switch the light off but that sort of defeats the purpose of lighting at all don't you think?


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## Rotormac

Frederik,
 If uyou've been looking at computer screens for many years, it's most unlikely that they were LED.  A desktop screen was - until relatively recently - a CRT (no LEDs) and most all laptops were LCD (no LEDs). So, if your eyesight has been affected by something, it's very unlikely to have been LEDs but I've been wrong before.


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## Rotormac

Also, most cars today (but not all) have LED sidelights or indicators.  Very few have LED headlights.


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## Jennifer Edwards

I guess I’ll add my two cents. 

I am a retired systems architect who stared at computer screens for forty years. 

Yes in the beginning when they were white CRT’s they were quite annoying. However when they switched to LED’s it was a godsend! Nice bright high contrast light with no bother.

I do not doubt that the gentleman has a real debilitating issue with light but I imagine that any direct source of light over time would have had the same effect on him.

Over my four decades of constant exposure to computer screens I was very concerned that I could be causing damage to my eyes. During that time I contacted both eye surgeons and clinical researchers who studied the long term effects of exposure to CRT and later LCD screens light a number of times.

I always received the same answer: that there is no damage to vision from long term exposure to computer screens.

They however almost always mentioned that eye fatigue from any close up work can and will occur and recommended to take a break and focus on something at a distance now and then throughout the workday.

The researchers I contacted were either conducting research or had already published their results. I can tell you these guys wanted nothing more then to prove eye damage from long term computer use. It was the reason they set off on that path.

Just my two cents worth.

Btw for those forty years I missed working in machine shops which was how I paid for my education, and why I took up model engineering as my hobby.


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## CFLBob

I'm going to echo Jenny.  I almost posted this last night, but thought maybe I shouldn't just jump in.

Frederik, I feel for you because I'm sure you're experiencing something, but whatever it is doesn't apply to everyone.  I stared at LED computer monitors all day at work for as long as they were available (rough guess - '06?).  There were days I only spent a few hours looking at a monitor but there were days I spent 10 hours.  My wife and I were early adopters of LED lights in our home and I switched to LED monitors at home years ago.  I have four LED 60 W equivalent bulbs over my head (and this LED monitor), one or two of which have been there since 2012.  LEDs have slipped into almost every room of our house, including replacing halogen lights that I thought were irreplaceable.   As shop lights have failed due to the ballasts going bad, I've replaced them with LED lights, and the area where I do most work has had a measurable improvement in the light around the tools.  

In short, I have LED lights everywhere around me and I've never had the eye issues you describe - or any other eye issues.  Nor has anyone else.  You're the first person I've come across with a story like this. 

I'm not saying I don't believe you.  The thing I'd like to know is what's the difference between your eyes and mine?  I assume you've seen a doctor for this, what did they say?  How can someone tell if they're going to react like you or like me?  

There are people reading this now who are going to wonder if LEDs are safe for them.  They aren't for you but they are for me.  How can they tell?


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## John Antliff

Part of growing old is "that our eyes grow dim".  It is part of the aging process.  At the age of 60 years old you will need 100 times more light to see the same detail that you observed when at the age of 16 years old!   I also spent, during 42 years in the computer industry,  a fair proportion of that time staring at screens, green CRT ones at the beginning, then orange CRT ones followed by black on white and white on black and then finally LCD screens.  The major improvement for me was the lack of flicker that occurred when CRT screens were replaced by LCD ones.  Apart from presbyopia (hardening of the lens) which requires me to wear glasses for reading/close work and the reduction in light stimulation, my eyesight is still good.   Unfortunately my workshop does not benefit from any natural light and I rely on old fluorescents which are slowly dying and I will be investigating LED alternatives assuming the budget will support that.


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## deverett

Frederik said:


> Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
> Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...



For night driving, yellow glasses are probably more effective than sunglasses to reduce glare from on-coming vehicles.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## justintime

Frederik said:


> I looked for years at a computerscreen which is made of many tiny ledlights, without eyeprotection. (Type of computerscreen sunglasses. Expensive ? yes)
> Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
> Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...
> In other words Cogsy, you are wrong. (And I am not going to debate you, so don`t get angry or defensive, what you say is just incorrect.)
> 
> Led lights produce such a powerfull intense bright light that they will essentially blind you after a few years.
> I didn`t believe it either in the beginning, I was young, what could happen right?
> Now I am crying and your not, YET...
> 
> DO NOT INSTALL LED LIGHTS !!!!!! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR EYES !!!!
> Yes it is more expensive in electricity if you install regular lightbulbs but at least you will be able to see in a couple of years.
> 
> Let me remind you that the regular lightbulbs are also bad for your eyes, but to a lesser degree.
> You could break the intensity of the light of the regular lightbulbs by using a filter.
> Don`t even bother filtering the leds, just throw them out !!
> 
> The best lightbulbs are still the old ones which they do not make anymore, you know, the ones with the tiny coiled wire in them.
> Or better yet, use candles.
> I am kidding.
> 
> I hope you are reading this because you are about to **** up your life...


Sorry to hear of your eye problems.  You need to get over your delusions and find a new Eye Doctor !


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## bruedney

John Antliff said:


> Unfortunately my workshop does not benefit from any natural light and I rely on old fluorescents which are slowly dying and I will be investigating LED alternatives assuming the budget will support that.


Hi John
I got 10 x 4' LED units from Aliexpress for just on $NZ200 - they seem pretty good but I have only installed 2 of them so far.
Bruce


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## WOB

Rotormac said:


> Frederik,
> If uyou've been looking at computer screens for many years, it's most unlikely that they were LED.  A desktop screen was - until relatively recently - a CRT (no LEDs) and most all laptops were LCD (no LEDs). So, if your eyesight has been affected by something, it's very unlikely to have been LEDs but I've been wrong before.


Samsung is working on a micro LED TV display that uses a single LED for each pixel.    Obviously, the same tech will be offered for computer monitors when it finally comes to market.   Currently, I believe all consumer grade monitors are LCD with CCFL or LEDs as the backlight.

WOB


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## goldstar31

I am not an eye specialist but over the past few hours ( Yes I have been jabbed for macular degeneration and this is ongoing ) and at the mercy of a large eye hospital, age is a factor and prior to all this, I had both cataracts removed etc.

If you suffer from bright oncoming  lights whilst driving, the obvious thing is to seek professional advice.


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## arvidj

WOB said:


> Samsung is working on a micro LED TV display that uses a single LED for each pixel.    Obviously, the same tech will be offered for computer monitors when it finally comes to market.   Currently, I believe all consumer grade monitors are LCD with CCFL or LEDs as the backlight.
> 
> WOB


OLED is another option for true a LED monitor or TV.  I have an OLED TV but all of my monitors are LCD with CCFL backlighting. I don't think any of them are LCD with LED backlighting.

I think the "LED screen" confusion comes from the marketing departments. When the switch from CCFL backlighting to LED backlighting took place the marketing department ... not to be confused with the 'describe the technology accurately department' ... put LED Monitor in big letters on the outside of the box. In reality it was the same LCD technology monitor they had before with different back light technology. If you changed the light in the kitchen from CCFL or incandescent to LED the marketing department would claim you now have an LED stove and refrigerator because the light shining on it came from an LED rather than whatever it was before ... and as such the $100 increase in price of the appliances is justified.   

Sorry for the rant ...
Arvid


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## ARUP

LEDs are safe. Light is light no matter what emits it. Even the sun will destroy your functional vision if you 'stare' at it long enough because the sun emits a lot of light with lot of 'amps' behind it. That's the only analogy I can think to use. So... for those who are having problems and think it is due to LED use... go see a doctor and get your eyes examined and tested properly. I have a doctorate and know what I'm discussing, here!


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## Wizard69

There is a way to damage ones eyes with high intensity LED's but you will not find them in video monitors.   This article highlights some issues: https://www.photonics.com/Articles/High-Power_LEDs_Pose_Safety_Hazards/a28351 but unfortunately dives into the "blue is bad" nonsense.   High intensity LED's of any wavelength can damage the eyes in the same way any other high intensity light source can.   

The big problem with high intensity LED's is that they are for the most part point sources of very high intensity light that can then be focused into a vary small spot in the eye.    What is important to note here is that these are high intensity LED's which are not the same as back light LED's in a LCD screen.   

Having a used these high intensity solutions in vision and metrology systems at work I can attest to just how bright high intensity LED's are if you are caught off guard.  In home lighting fixtures the leds are normally softened by some sort of diffuser to avoid that point source risk.

So the thing here is to try to separate the real issues from the questionable science that floats about the net.    Just like any other risk form bright lights the safest thing to do is to not look at the source.    You wouldn't look at a welders arc, a movie projector;s bulb, the sun or other bright lights so why would anybody look at an LED?


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## Cogsy

Wizard69 said:


> There is a way to damage ones eyes with high intensity LED's but you will not find them in video monitors.   This article highlights some issues: https://www.photonics.com/Articles/High-Power_LEDs_Pose_Safety_Hazards/a28351 but unfortunately dives into the "blue is bad" nonsense



Not only does it support the "blue is bad" position, it claims the 'formal' range of this damaging spectrum is defined as the "*300- to 700-nm range*" which covers virtually the entire (human) visible spectrum (our eyes can detect in the range of 380 - 740 nm). This is an absurd statement and is directly equivalent to saying "any visible light is damaging to our eyes". It goes on to make further preposterous claims and even suggests some equivalence between lasers and LEDs in terms of danger. They even make reference to potential thermal hazards of long wavelengths emitted by LEDs, so they are suggesting infrared being emitted by high intensity LEDs is thermally damaging to our eyes! It boggles the mind to imagine how hot an LED would have to be running to essentially 'cook' our eyeballs (remember we detect infrared radiation as the 'hot' sensation we feel whenever we get close to an emitter like a hot stove or fire).



Wizard69 said:


> The big problem with high intensity LED's is that they are for the most part point sources of very high intensity light that can then be focused into a vary small spot in the eye.



This 'point source' issue could only possibly be a problem with LEDs (due to their low total power output) if the entirety of the light being emitted was focused on the retina. As the light emitted is multi-directional, unlike a laser, you would have to place the LED virtually touching your eyeball to capture most of the light being emitted. As you move the LED away from your eye, more of the light is missing your eyes and not being collected. 

The way our eyes work is to focus all the light being received into a spot on the retina so an image is resolved. When this focusing process is not occurring on our retina we can't see clearly and we need to wear corrective lenses to correct this focus and let us see properly. There is nothing special about the size of an LED allowing it to be focused to a single spot on our retinas.



Wizard69 said:


> So the thing here is to try to separate the real issues from the questionable science that floats about the net.    Just like any other risk form bright lights the safest thing to do is to not look at the source.    You wouldn't look at a welders arc, a movie projector;s bulb, the sun or other bright lights so why would anybody look at an LED?



If you're interested in the science behind an issue, the best research option is to read journal articles in peer reviewed literature. Google Scholar is a great place to start (https://scholar.google.com/) but be aware not all journals are created equal - you need to evaluate the reputation of a journal even when it claims to be peer reviewed. The internet being what it is (namely driven by the almighty advertising dollar) clicks are currency and so much of what is written is simply to try and garner traffic. The article you've linked to is a great example of sensationalist misinformation that exists simply to make money.


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## MrMetric

I don't know about the whole high intensity thing hurting your eyes (I don't make it a habit of staring at the sun or my lights!) but.... I converted from florescent to LED a year ago and, boy, what a difference! So much brighter, no buzzing, and much much smaller footprint.  I used one retrofit bulb because of some logistics, but otherwise just FreeCycled all of my new/used bulbs and fixtures.  It only cost me about $75 on Amazon for the Barilla brand (think that is what it is) with two runs of LEDs.  The only thing I don't like is that I really wanted a translucent cover but they only had a transparent one.  So I can see the individual LEDs.  The lights are also cooler than I would have preferred, which probably gives me more of that much maligned blue color. However, I'm not sure I really buy into that.  Just me though....


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## tornitore45

> Light is light no matter what emits it


Well there is "white" constant light, like emitted by the sun and than there is monochromatic light that may or may not be pulsed.  Then there is LED fake white light obtained by exciting a mixture of Phosphors with UV light.  Then there is fake LED white light with an intensity modulation (Current ripple = Light Flicker) of various frequency and intensity. 
A poorly designed LED light can be very annoying and damaging, a well designed LED light can be a good solution to indoor lighting.


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## jack620

I just replaced twelve 36W 120cm/4ft flouro tubes in my workshop with 16W Osram LED tubes in daylight colour (6500K). I don't feel they are any brighter, but I prefer the colour to the old warm white tubes.


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## Wizard69

Hi Cogsy;

Little late responding.


Cogsy said:


> Not only does it support the "blue is bad" position, it claims the 'formal' range of this damaging spectrum is defined as the "*300- to 700-nm range*" which covers virtually the entire (human) visible spectrum (our eyes can detect in the range of 380 - 740 nm).


This is why I specifically mentioned that they dived into the blue is bad nonsense.


> This is an absurd statement and is directly equivalent to saying "any visible light is damaging to our eyes".


Here in lies the problem wave length doesn't really matter, if the intensity is high enough you can get damage.   If not damage, temporary blindness or disorientation.   I've actually have had exposure to very high intensity 'RED' LED's and can attest to how bright those little guys can be.    However what many need to understand here is that these are not consumer grade light sources.


> It goes on to make further preposterous claims and even suggests some equivalence between lasers and LEDs in terms of danger.


Even old fashion light sources like halogen projector bulbs can damage the eyes.   This especially in the case of shielded bulbs that don't have UV filtering.   


> They even make reference to potential thermal hazards of long wavelengths emitted by LEDs, so they are suggesting infrared being emitted by high intensity LEDs is thermally damaging to our eyes! It boggles the mind to imagine how hot an LED would have to be running to essentially 'cook' our eyeballs (remember we detect infrared radiation as the 'hot' sensation we feel whenever we get close to an emitter like a hot stove or fire).


The problem here is that you can make any wavelength of light a hazard by suitably concentrating it.    


> This 'point source' issue could only possibly be a problem with LEDs (due to their low total power output) if the entirety of the light being emitted was focused on the retina. As the light emitted is multi-directional, unlike a laser, you would have to place the LED virtually touching your eyeball to capture most of the light being emitted. As you move the LED away from your eye, more of the light is missing your eyes and not being collected.


Interestingly this point source issue has been brought up in other articles which unfortunately I could not find when I posted this one.   In any event there is certianly a distance issue here as the eye has to be at a distance from the point source to create a point or illumination on the retina.


> The way our eyes work is to focus all the light being received into a spot on the retina so an image is resolved. When this focusing process is not occurring on our retina we can't see clearly and we need to wear corrective lenses to correct this focus and let us see properly. There is nothing special about the size of an LED allowing it to be focused to a single spot on our retinas.


It is true that there is nothing special about an LED but there is nothing special about a filament in an old fashion light bulb.   There is a difference though in that the light isn't as multi directional as you think.   In either case looking at and trying to focus on such light generators is not a good thing to do.   I have to believe that your know this and hopefully everybody in this forum does also.


> If you're interested in the science behind an issue, the best research option is to read journal articles in peer reviewed literature. Google Scholar is a great place to start (https://scholar.google.com/) but be aware not all journals are created equal -


I've actually have read a lot about this and stand by what I've said.   Any damage that is going to happen is going to happen because you have an extremely intense light source and that such sources be they an LED, and old fashion bulb, Welders arc or whatever is not good for you to look at directly.


> you need to evaluate the reputation of a journal even when it claims to be peer reviewed. The internet being what it is (namely driven by the almighty advertising dollar) clicks are currency and so much of what is written is simply to try and garner traffic. The article you've linked to is a great example of sensationalist misinformation that exists simply to make money.



Err no!   It is poorly written that is for sure and likely is gleaning information from research they don't understand, but the main point is that correct.   That is very high intensity light sources can be very bad for you.

The problem is people really don't understand what very high intensity light sources are!!!!   Beyond that trying to explain the the inverse square law is sometime futile.   However in this hobby I think it is important to get people to respect high intensity light sources if they ever have an opportunity to work on one.   Care should be taken for example in installing and adjusting a bulb in a profile projector or the like.

Further what is important here is to realize there is a huge difference between a high intensity light source and a video monitor or even LED lighting.   LED lighting solves the problem or a high intensity source by the use of diffusers.   

By the way LED's themselves are very interesting to read about.   There are many approaches to getting the light out of the LED.   This shapes the light projected from the LED which is why you can't really compare them to multi directional light sources like fluorescent or filament bulbs.   LED's may not be lasers but they are also not homogeneous in the way  that they perform.


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## Cogsy

Wizard69 said:


> Little late responding.
> .


Hi Wizard,
I'm not going to address your post point-by-point, and certainly not going to go through the thermodynamics as to why a 3W, 5W or even higher wattage LED can't thermally damage your eye, or go through the difference between (even 'high' intensity) LED light and narrow-band, phased LASER light emission, but instead I'm just going to elaborate on where I'm coming from on this topic. I have a degree in Physics and I'm currently doing post-grad research into ocular biophysics, which is likely to evolve into my PhD thesis topic. Without trying to be arrogant, I do assume that I have a little better background and understanding of this area than a layman, although I'm certainly not a world authority. If/where I am wrong I'm more than happy to be corrected, but the unreviewed site/article you originally linked to is very poor quality and is talking a large amount of bunk.

LEDs' can be very bright, and as a general rule, if the brightness of any light source feels unpleasant, then don't look at it. As far as damaging your eyes from an LED in the manners described in that article - completely unsupported/ utter garbage.


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## bobden72

I am with you all the way Al well said.  Down with scare mungers.


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