# Sieg Miller



## don-tucker (Feb 13, 2010)

Thinking of buying a Sieg x2 miller,which is best ,a No 3 MT or R-8 spindle,what do you guys think of these machines.i would like to go to the x3 but funds don't allow.
Looking forward to your thoughts
Don


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## Twmaster (Feb 13, 2010)

R8. Much more tooling to be had.


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## Cedge (Feb 13, 2010)

Having used both.... R8 wins here


Steve


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## don-tucker (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks lads
Don


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## gmac (Feb 13, 2010)

While we're on the subject... 

I have an X2 with the MT spindle. Is conversion to R8 as simple as replacing the spindle and a pair of bearings?

Cheers
Garry


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## black85vette (Feb 13, 2010)

Another practical reason on the R8. You do not have to tighten down an R8 as much because it does not use the draw bar tension to hold the tool. It uses a set screw against a flat on the end mill. On the MT3 you really have to torque it down to get it to grip the end mill so that it won't slip.

So far I just have 2 R8 end mill holders. I have them for the 3/8ths and 1/2 inch shank tools.

Ditto on more tools being available.


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## ksouers (Feb 13, 2010)

Don,

Actually, it kind of depends on what part of the world you are in. Here in the US R8 is the hands-down winner, no doubt. There is much more tooling available, both new and second hand, and it is cheaper.

However, there are places where R8 tooling is hard to get and MT3 is more easily available. Check the catalogs of your local vendors and compare prices and availability. You may find one has the edge.

Both my mills, an X2 and a knee mill, are R8. I only need one tool I can use in either machine.


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## Maryak (Feb 13, 2010)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> Don,
> 
> Actually, it kind of depends on what part of the world you are in. Here in the US R8 is the hands-down winner, no doubt. There is much more tooling available, both new and second hand, and it is cheaper.
> 
> ...



Kevin,

How right you are. :bow: :bow: My mill and lathe are MT3 and so my arbors are MT3 and tooling can be swapped from machine to machine. In Oz there is a good selection of MT3 tooling.

Best Regards
Bob


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## rake60 (Feb 13, 2010)

Mine has an R8 spindle because tooling for it is more accessible here.

Garry, that is an interesting question.
When you compare the parts lists and exploded views of the Harbor Freight X2
that comes with the R8 spindle to the same parts list and views of the Grizzly X2
with the MT3 spindle, they are identical. The spindle bearings are the same in both
of those parts lists. *(REF #123 - Ball Bearing 80206)*
The left hand thread spindle nut and relevant spacers also appear to all be the same.

A conversion may require nothing more than an R8 spindle and a draw bar.

Rick


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## gmac (Feb 14, 2010)

Thanks Rick! 
I'll dig a little farther (mine is a BusyBee X2 so things may be different). I ended up with an R8 shank arbor when I purchased a boring head on sale. That started me thinking about moving to an R8 setup.
Cheers
Garry


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## pete (Feb 14, 2010)

Gmac,
Go for the R8, You won't regret it, No more pounding on the drawbar to release the tooling, A simple tap will work. This is far easier on the spindle bearings, Plus as said, For this area, R8 has far more selection and is a bit cheaper.(Edit) Plus if you ever buy a larger mill it will more than likely have a R8 taper.

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Feb 14, 2010)

Garry,

The main difference between an R8 and a MT is that the angle of a MT taper is classed as a self gripping taper whereas the R8 is not.

This means that a MT taper will give the same grip on a tool for less drawbar pressure when you compare the two.

That is why you have to use more pressure on the MT taper to split the tapers apart and is the reason R8 has become so popular. With R8, usually a slight tap on the drawbar will release it, whereas with MT, a lot of force is usually required to split the taper.

At one time, not too far in the distant past, R8 was still classed almost as an industrial taper and the model fraternity mainly used MT3. Nowadays, R8 is starting to become the norm for larger home shop machinery, and so tooling for R8 is becoming more widely available, and for people swapping over to R8 machinery, MT adapters are available so that old MT tooling can still be used, although there is considerable throat depth loss.

For someone that is just coming into the machining game or is upgrading their machinery, if it was myself, R8 would have to be the way to go if the choice was there, purely for the lack of stress when it comes to changing tooling.

I haven't had to cast any lead hammers since I swapped my mill over, that has an R8 taper.


Blogs


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## gmac (Feb 14, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys. Now to find an R8 spindle for an X2... preferably on the Canadian side of the border... ;D

Cheers
Garry


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## rake60 (Feb 14, 2010)

I may have been mistaken in my thoughts of the spindles being 
the same. While the bearings are the same in both machines the 
spindle OD fits are very different.

This is a replacement _*R8 Spindle*_ and a replacement _*MT3 Spindle*_.
There are very clear differences between the two. 

Rick


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## pete (Feb 14, 2010)

Gary,
The only place I know of is Little Machine Shop, I'm sure you already know this. I will say LMS are VERY good to deal with, I've made 3 or 4 orders with them and have had zero problems.

Pete


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## Twmaster (Feb 14, 2010)

LMS is a good bunch. I would email and ask them what parts would be needed. I'll be they already know that answer.


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## gmac (Feb 14, 2010)

And again thanks guys. Looks to me like the lower bearing changes ID but the upper remains the same. Not sure if the difference in length is problematic. As Twmaster says an e-mail to LMS should clear things up. Pete - I've never dealt with LMS but from the comments on this forum there seems no reason not to. I'd planned on getting their belt drive conversion anyway.

We resume regular programming - apologies to Don for the hijack!

Garry


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## pete (Feb 14, 2010)

Don,
Yeah me too, Sorry for the hijack.

Pete


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## don-tucker (Feb 16, 2010)

I have decided to wait for the SX2 to be available here,with the bigger brushless motor,belt drive and I think I noticed better leadscrew nuts it will be worth the extra.What do tou think?
Don


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## don-tucker (Feb 16, 2010)

What a downer,Axminster won't have stock till April,how about this one http://www.warco.co.uk/Mini-Mill-Drill-EBFC17B0BF.aspx 
Bigger motor and table than the X2
Don


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## gmac (Feb 16, 2010)

Just to close out my hijack : For those who are interested;

I e-mailed LMS about the issue of MT3 to R8 conversion. Chris Wood's reply was to the point;

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/1625

Now I feel like a dumb mass - more like a ....

Garry


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## Twmaster (Feb 17, 2010)

Well.. Imagine that...


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## don-tucker (Feb 17, 2010)

No Comments on the sieg SX2 mill,I would have thought you guys across the pond would have them by now.
Don


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## rake60 (Feb 17, 2010)

The SX2 hasn't shown up in the Grizzly or Harbor Freight catalogs here yet.
_*Axminster Tool Centre*_ is advertising them in the UK. They are "temporary 
out of stock" there as well. 

Rick


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