# Never,ever give up!



## Stephen12 (Dec 16, 2012)

I am busy building Jan Ridders single cylinder flame eater for a beginners project. I spent a total of 2 days just doing the cylinder with the grooves (Many will say that is easy). Easy if you know how to grind HSS, easy if you know what feeds and speeds to use. 
I have worked for the last 20 years on CNC machines and carbide inserts, so grinding HSS is a new to me.
So my comment is just this ,,,,,,Even though I struggled and spent 2 days on 1 part I enjoyed it  . I said to myself this part will be made and I ground that HSS again and again. Tested it again and again.

I eventually did it :fan:. Never give up and enjoy the hobby.

Ps - A bad day doing a hobby you enjoy (As long as it only costs time) is better than a good day at the office.


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## ShedBoy (Dec 16, 2012)

Quite a few changes moving from carbide to HSS, at least you did have to make it twice or more. I hope you get just as much enjoyment from the rest of the engine.

Brock


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## SmithDoor (Dec 16, 2012)

I have use  carbide and HSS If I am working for a shop carbide is great.
In my home shop HSS is the best price been using HSS for 40 years save the carbide for some hard. 

Dave


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 16, 2012)

IMHO learning to grind HSS is a basic skill to be learned by all machinists. I do understand why industrial cnc applications favor carbide insets. I was trained by the USAF as a maintenance machinist. Part of my schooling was learning to grind HSS by hand . We had to do a practice learning piece using mild steel. but all the cutters were HSS and if they were dull we had to touch them up/regrind. 
Tin


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## Propforward (Dec 16, 2012)

One thing I had never done was grind my own HSS bits, until very recently. I found a very nice tutorial from Sherline that talks you through making a cutting bit from an HSS blank. This matter of fact and straightforward guide was really helpful. I am sure it has been referenced on this site before.

http://www.sherline.com/grinding.htm

This was the key for me to start getting reasonable finishes - and just making this one simple, fairly multi purpose tool totally transformed what I was doing. I should have listened to my Dad when he told me not to bother with the carbide bits. I see those as more useful in production machine shops. Really every machinist needs to know how to make HSS bits. I also bought an oilstone to hone the edges, and a quick hone of the tool on there each machining session helps a lot.

I must say, the "Never give up" mantra is definitely important - I have moade most parts on my current project more than once. 

But, now the lathe is more than just a tool for making model engines, it is now useful in my other hobbies too. Yesterday I made some parts to repair my little snow plow and also one of my motorcycles. What a useful tool it is to have around.


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## goldstar31 (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm someone who almost hates 'carbide'. OK, my father and I used the stuff in the last war--- and all that but it doesn't suit someone who has a little lathe which has to do all sorts of things- at all times.  If you want a factory  to make a thousand items- fine- bash on and play carbide and CNC.

So years ago I built a Quorn tool and cutter grinder. It sorts the the sheep out from the goats-- and that is before the damned thing is finished! Since then, I've made a lot but basicly I have an old battered Clarkson and something called Kennet which does the everyday requiremets of lathe tools.

Having said all that, the test of a good lathe tool is to see the reflection of your dirty thumb nail on the cutting face or make a little furrow in your nail.

So I've read a load of bollocks about tools and the best  is by a guy called Conrad Hoffman and it is called Advanced Tool Sharpening. It describes just how a lathe tool is created and goes on to make a tool which will hone a lathe tool to perfection with a simple little tool. I don't agree with him about using some abrasive paper because I can't find any in the UK.

So I go back to where he copied his design which was an ancient old Brit called Holzapffel who made something called a Goniostat or Goniometer.

Seriously-- and if you want the best- it's Holzapffel. His books are still are 'on the net' and for free.

Since most of the Clown Princes of Europe are no more( he sold lathes to them!), there has been something called 'diamond dust or paste' and it is dead cheap.That is the stuff.

So dig out the newer Mr Hoffman and see how it is done.


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## Mainer (Dec 17, 2012)

Another good book on lathe tool geometry and sharpening is The Design and Use of Cutting Tools, by Leo J. StClair. 350+ pages on primarily lathe toolbits.

One basic thing he recommends is getting one of those pivot-arm protractors so you can measure the angles and get them correct. The angles matter for cutting efficiency and tool life, and virtually everybody is really bad at estimating the angles accurately.


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## SmithDoor (Dec 18, 2012)

If you need a chart on tool bit I have upload a chart I used in my shop. I place it over the grinders in the shop. 
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist...-lathe-milling-machines-and-shop-use-266.html 
Name: 1tool-bit-shraping.pdf

Dave


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## wildun (Feb 14, 2013)

I use both HSS and carbide on my old home workshop lathe, and I find that when I need to have a smooth (albeit dull) finish when I need to remove only a couple of thou that HSS is the safest way to go, using slow speeds and feeds and plenty of cutting oil.
However, on more rigid modern lathes (which I once made a living from) and you need to make a profit by removing heaps of material at high speeds, then carbide is essential.
Now that I am retired I have accumulated quite a pile of used carbide inserts which I can braze or otherwise attach to steel shanks, grind them just like HSS with a positive rake or whatever shape takes my fancy on a green stone!
Horses for courses, - they are both useful!


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 15, 2013)

A good book on intern archives



http://archive.org/details/CuttingToolsForMetalMachining

and this one by Machinery press

http://archive.org/details/latheplanertools00newyrich
Tin


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 15, 2013)

We had some good comments about tool grinding and that is good. This thread goes deeper .Patience & perseverance is likely  some of the hardest skills to learn. 
we sometimes forget we ALL have a lot to learn about machining and this hobby. 
some folk come here with nothing more that a dream to build an engine. Others come with decades of professional experience and a few with decades of hobby experience. 
I have a little of each. some have read my bio here or on other boards but in a nut shell  I started my third part time military career in the NJ Air National guard as a machinist welder in 1996 I was sent to school for the summer of "97  and in  2001 went to my first Cabin Fever Show. purchased a couple of PM Research kits and started in the hobby. I started exhibiting at shows in 2003. 
My learning curve is trying to push myself into the CNC part of the hobby. I did run a cnc lathe for about a year in a civilian shop. 
I have retro fitted a couple of small machines. 

 Programming and set up a little different.  Also my current job seems to leave little time and energy for the fun stuff. I still do shows. And I enjoy writing here. but need to get back to building engines. 

As my USAF sheet metal instructor used to say "Press on"
Tin


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## Hopper (Feb 19, 2013)

Best book I have seen for HSS tool sharpening specifically for small home hobby lathes is "The Amateur's Lathe" by LH Sparey. It is still in print and available cheap.
He uses angles and rakes quite different from what I learned in industry on bigger, sturdier lathes and blow me down if they don't work a treat on my little 3-1/2 Drummond. Well worth investing in.


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