# 1886 Benz



## Tom T (Oct 21, 2009)

I've started my winter project. But I have held off posting anything because my projects sure do start off ugly. I am building a full scale 1886 Benz. I have the original patten and some really good pictures but no actual blue prints. What I basically know about this is it has a 3.5" bore, and a 6" stroke. It has a total engine weight of 220 pounds and creates 3/4 hp at 400 rpm. Here are a few pictures of the progress so far. If work stays slow this project should move along pretty fast. If I don't make to many mistakes along the way. The preview post does not work. So this could be a mess.  Tom T   
Here is a picture of a reproduction I got off the net. 





Here are some of the parts that make up the crank case.








Here it is after welding and lots of grinding.


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## Metal Mickey (Oct 21, 2009)

I wish you well with this project and am looking forward to seeing progress. Its certainly ambitious and what an end product! Will you be doing all your own castings? Good luck MM


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## nemt (Oct 21, 2009)

Hello Tom,
This is a challenging project.
A modelengineer colleague here in Holland has build one some years ago. It ran very good. Because of storage problems he had t sell the car. Now some Mercedes dealer has it in his showroom.
The builder now is left with a scale model 1 : 8 witch is a runner as well. Maybe the modell you got from the net is his???
Good luck with your build.
Nemt


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## Krown Kustoms (Oct 21, 2009)

Wow!
I dont think I have ever seen anybody fabricate a part to look cast that looks that good.
How long did it take?
-B-


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## rake60 (Oct 21, 2009)

You HAVE to take us along on this ride Tom!

That is a beautiful engine that I would love to see the 
step by step progress going.

Rick


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## lazylathe (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi Tom,

Looks fantastic!

Maybe this will help, some pics at the end!
http://home.arcor.de/carsten.popp/DE_00037435_A.pdf

Andrew


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## Artie (Oct 21, 2009)

lazylathe  said:
			
		

> Hi Tom,
> 
> Looks fantastic!
> 
> ...



Firstly Tom, that is an awesome start! Good luck Ill be watching with interest (much!). Secondly, Lazy, man that is a great find. If I were Tom and I didnt have much to work with, you would be my hero right about now. Good post mate.... :bow:


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## RonGinger (Oct 21, 2009)

That photo looks like the one at the Owls Head Transportation Museum in Maine. Do you know if it is, or is there another replica around?


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## cfellows (Oct 21, 2009)

Wow, Tom, I'm impressed. I've been looking longingly at the Henry Ford Quadricycle. Mostly just the engine.

Wish you the best on this project. 

Chuck


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## Tom T (Oct 21, 2009)

MM--- I am not using any castings. I am going to fabricate them and weld and grind. 

Krown Kustoms--- So far about a week off and on. 2 days of that was grinding. 

Lazylathe---- That is the exact drawings I have. But thanks for them anyway. 

RonGinger--- Don't know if that is the one from Maine or not. There are some replicas in the UK. A company there made about 15 of them. 

cfellows-- you should build the ford and we will have a race.  Thm:

Rick--- Will try to keep everything documented and updated.    Thanks for this wonderful site. Tom


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## Tom T (Oct 21, 2009)

Here are a few more pics. This is the parts that make up the cylinder. The 2 rings are welded to the larger tube to make the jug. The liner will slide down in it and seal with an o-ring in the bottom.




This is what it looks like now all assembled




This is after the welding


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## Deanofid (Oct 22, 2009)

That's a beautiful engine in the first picture, Tom, and from the looks of things you're off to a fine start. All your grinding time on the crankcase was well spent. It's impressive!

Does this engine have a spark plug? I'm almost sure I've seen one somewhere, but if I remember right, it had a hot igniter. Is yours the same?

Hope you keep us updated on this build! 

Dean


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## cfellows (Oct 22, 2009)

Nice pictures, Tom. I'm really impressed with the work you did on the cylinder. Looks like a cast iron liner? How did you bore it and get it so smooth?

Chuck


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## Tom T (Oct 22, 2009)

Dean I will be using a sparkplug and buzz coil like the original engine had.

Chuck the liner is a piece of d.o.m. tube with a flange welded on . I have built liners like this for other engines and had no problems. If it gives me trouble I will bore it out and press in a cast iron sleeve.

This is a picture of the cylinder head it was made in two pieces so I could hollow out the coolent passages. The valves are mounted on the outside of the head, intake is a slide valve and exhaust poppet . 




This shows the engine assembled and brings you up to where I am at on this engine. Next will be the flywheel. Tom


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## RobWilson (Oct 22, 2009)

Hi Tom 

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: VERY NICE , i do like your fabrication work ;D ,,,,,,, whats your plans for the fly wheel ?and what diameter is it ?

Regards Rob


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## nkalbrr (Oct 22, 2009)

words cannot express what you are undertaking :big:


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## cfellows (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm really impressed, Tom. Can't wait to see how you do the flywheel!

Chuck


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## Tom T (Nov 6, 2009)

Thank you for your comments.
Rob its 26 inch od.
nkalbrr you made me stop and think [ not good ]
I made some progress.The spokes were cut from 2x.75 flat bar and corners cut at 45 then put in this jig , heated red hot and bent. I found this jig in my scrap pile. I made it for a flywheel I built last summer I am glad I didn't hall it off.





This shows the 8 parts that make the flywheel




This shows it being held together by set screws in the inner outer ring at this point the hub was tack welded.




Here it is after welding and grinding.




       continued on the next post  Tom


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## Tom T (Nov 6, 2009)

Weld was added to the outside of the spokes then mounted on a rotary table and cut to fit the inner outer ring. This helped keep it true.




The inner outer ring was then installed and tacked to run true. Then removed for welding. 




This shows the flywheel after the inner outer ring was welded on, remounted on the rotary table, trued up, then polished.




This shows the flywheel after the outer ring had been installed and welded to the inner ring. At this point it was milled true.
 This sure would of been easier with a big lathe.


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## cfellows (Nov 6, 2009)

Well, Tom. I see the pictures, but I'm still not sure how you did it. Very impressive! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Chuck


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## RobWilson (Nov 7, 2009)

Hi Tom 

 th_wav th_confused0052 That's is some very impressive work ,,please keep the photos coming Thm: great build

Regards Rob


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## Tom T (Nov 7, 2009)

Thanks guys.
 Here it is after milling and grinding still need to bore the hub.


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## RobWilson (Nov 7, 2009)

VERY VERY NICE Tom :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
its a shame to paint it :big:,,, how many hours do you have in the fly wheel ?

Regards Rob


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## cfellows (Nov 7, 2009)

Tom, that flywheel is really a beauty! I assume you will bore the hub with your milling machine? How will you get it accurately centered and perpendicular so there's no wobble?

Also, where did you get the outside ring?

Chuck


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## arnoldb (Nov 7, 2009)

That's excellent work Tom :bow: :bow:
Regards, Arnold


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## ariz (Nov 8, 2009)

great, impressive work   :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## Tom T (Nov 8, 2009)

Thanks guys.
Rob about 50 hrs.
Chuck, I mounted the flywheel on the rotary table and put a dial indicator on the outer ring and adjusted it to run true with the rotation of the rotary table.Then I put a small end mill in the spindle and made a light cut in the hub by rotating the rotary table this gave me a place to line the spindle up with that was true with the outer ring. The outer rings I had rolled by a shop in okc.


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## Maryak (Nov 9, 2009)

Tom,

Great job on the flywheel. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## lazylathe (Nov 9, 2009)

Amazing work Tom! :bow:

What i want to know is this:

How many people does it take to lift your rotary table???
It looks HUGE!!!! 

Andrew


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## Tom T (Nov 9, 2009)

Thanks guys .
Andrew It takes 6 guys to pick up the rotary table, and 3 guys to push the milling machine under it :big:
But I use a cherry picker to pick it up. Don't usually have 9 guys around here at one time.  :big:
 The only reason I have this beast is I found it at a garage sale for 100.00. When I put this on the mill I like to 
make sure I am not gonna need it anymore before I remove it. I am gonna need to make the cam lobes and thought I 
would try Chucks way.


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## cfellows (Nov 9, 2009)

Gosh, that engine looks nice. I'm very envious!

Chuck


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## Deanofid (Nov 9, 2009)

Wow. It just keeps getting better and better, Tom. Really nice work!
Hard to imagine all the effort you've put into it already.

Dean


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## RobWilson (Nov 10, 2009)

GREAT WORK OF ART Tom  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Regards Rob


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## Jack B (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi Tom That flywheel is great. I like the story about getting the rotary table at a garage sale. They are my favorie place to shop. You are doing a great job on your project. Thanks for shareing it.
                                Jack


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## Tom T (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks I made some more progress. I built the cam and gear carrier it looks like a simple part but it took a while to get it lined up with the pinion. The shafts are just for testing fit. Still need to do some finsh work on it. Tom


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## cfellows (Nov 15, 2009)

Sure wish I had your energy and enthusiasm, Tom. This build is going very nicely. Gonna be a beauty.

Chuck


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## Deanofid (Nov 15, 2009)

That's a serious big cam lobe! Healthy looking gears too. They really grew 'em big in the old days!
I don't know what more to say about your work, Tom. You're a real craftsman. Thanks again for sharing.


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## Tom T (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks Chuck

Deanofide I appreciate your opinion because I thought the cam and the gear were to small. They must be just right then. :big:
Here are some pictures of the valves. The slide valve was made in 3 pieces, adapter, carrier, and cover. The ports haven't been drilled yet. I was wondering about port shape? Do you think round or square? The slide valve linkage is pinned to the outside of the cam lobe and is always moving. Not like a poppet. This could make it tough to time.  ???


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## Powder keg (Nov 22, 2009)

That is going to be an Awesome looking engine!!! Love the weld and grind job you are doing!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

Wes


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## Tom T (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks Wes I disassembled this engine to do some finish work to the parts. Drilled a oil pasage down the sleeve to lube the piston and wrist pin, filled the water jacket with water and had to fix two pin holes in my mig weld. I think stick welding would have been a better choice. After I drilled the oil hole in the piston I pick up the rod to drill a hole through the wrist pin end of it that's when I realized I had made a mistake on the piston :wall: Do you see it?? Tom


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## Powder keg (Dec 13, 2009)

Lit me look for my book on the 1886 benz and I'll get back with you) is it the oiler drilled crooked?


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## Tom T (Dec 13, 2009)

No Power Keg the slide valve mounts at a angle the mistake is on the piston .I cant believe I did that scratch.gif


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## gbritnell (Dec 13, 2009)

Tom, great work! People ask me "isn't it hard to work on all those small parts?" I tell them it's not bad at all. I think it's harder or should I say more work to build something like what you're doing. Not so much the machining, it just requires bigger machines but all the grinding and shaping of the parts. Making everything look like a casting requires loads of extra work. This project is going to be something when it's complete.
gbritnell


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## Powder keg (Dec 13, 2009)

The engine is on its side. So the oil hole should be in line with the wrist pin? Or in the wrist pin?

Did I win?)


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## Tom T (Dec 13, 2009)

Gbritnell thanks I think the small engines are harder to build and make run right . you have built some really nice stuff.

Power keg you win th_wav and you are right about the fix.          Thanks Tom


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## gmac (Dec 13, 2009)

Tom;
You've taken on quite the challenge - and by the looks of it doing very well. Nice work!

I wanted to ask if you had found drawings somewhere or are working exclusively from the one patent application document you referenced? Build as you go? I need a project to re-learn CAD/Solidmodeling and a 1/3rd version of this engine might be the ticket. Although I've found many (similar) photo's of the engine to help reverse engineer it, the only drawings I've seen so far are the patents documents.

Any idea how the exhaust valve functions? There seems to be a linkage to the exhaust port area but no photo's to identify how it's operated. 

Keep at it - we're all enjoying this build!

Garry


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## Tom T (Dec 14, 2009)

Thanks Garry All I have is the patent document and some pictures I found on the net, none of the pictures show the exhaust valve so i just built what i thought would work . Here are some pictures if you look hard you can see what I built. Tom


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## ariz (Dec 14, 2009)

indeed a great work :bow:

thanks for sharing it Tom


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## RobWilson (Dec 14, 2009)

out standing Tom :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Rob


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## rake60 (Dec 14, 2009)

Beautiful build Tom! :bow:

Rick


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## gmac (Dec 14, 2009)

Tom 
Thanks for the additional photo's. Looks to me as though you've hit the proportions bang on. It really looks the part. So are you planing to build the opposed twin they built for trucks once this one's running?  :big:

Cheers
Garry


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## 1hand (Dec 14, 2009)

Wow what a cool build!!


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## cfellows (Dec 14, 2009)

Tom, that is one beautiful engine and your workmanship is awe inspiring. I'm totally impressed!

Chuck


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## Maryak (Dec 15, 2009)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Tom, that is one beautiful engine and your workmanship is awe inspiring. I'm totally impressed!
> 
> Chuck



Me too. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## rustranch (Dec 15, 2009)

Wow one way cool project. Make me want to just give up on anything to post.


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## gbritnell (Dec 15, 2009)

That thing is to use a term 'drop dead gorgeous'!!! I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said. It's a shame that it would have to be painted, covering up all that hand work. The first time it pops will be the final reward for all that craftsmanship.
gbritnell


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## Tom T (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks guys for your generous post. :bow:
Garry I don't know what my project is next. I have thought about the first motorcycle, full size??? 
Rustranch never give up and post, post, post,
Ok its time to quit goofing around and get on with the show. I got it running. I the first video I had the timing set at TDC I think it was ready to get on down the road. In the second video I retarded the timing and got it to settle down, still need to build a carb, and the cooling tank. but it was a good feeling to here it run Tom


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## Deanofid (Dec 15, 2009)

I was cheering from my computer desk, Tom! 
What a lovely sound. What a terrific build!
Just chuffing along, and not even an carb yet. That's just great.

Dean


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## 2CYL4STROKE (Dec 15, 2009)

Funny sound Like sneezing


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## Artie (Dec 15, 2009)

hey ya! You hafta be near dead not to get a buzz out of seeing that. Just great mate, just great :bow:

Artie


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 15, 2009)

That was great!


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## rake60 (Dec 15, 2009)

That is a treat to see running Tom! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Rick


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## steamer (Dec 15, 2009)

Gotta love the fuel injection system! ;D :big:


That's AWESOME! Great work!

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## myrickman (Dec 18, 2009)

Awesome piece of engineering, Tom. Watching it run certainly starched my jeans!


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## Tom T (Dec 21, 2009)

Thanks I'm glade you enjoyed it.
I built a simple mixer with air adjustment 
for the fuel system and got it running a little better .





Had to build a cone for the bottom of the coolent tank this was a first for me but it came out ok .




 A little press work.




and ta da a cone




 You can see the cone on the bottom of the tank in this video.


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## Deanofid (Dec 21, 2009)

What a work of art, Tom. It's hard to express proper admiration for this engine.
"Fabulous" would be a start. 
Thanks a lot for sharing it with us.

Dean


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## 1Kenny (Jan 13, 2010)

That is looking and sounding great, Tom. I am just bumping this up.

Kenny


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## gbritnell (Jan 13, 2010)

I know it's been said many different ways but this is truly a magnificent build and to see it running so nicely is icing on the cake.
gbritnell


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## Tom T (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks guys I have made a little more progress. Here are some pictures .Tom


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## ref1ection (Feb 2, 2010)

An incredible amount of effort and well worth it. Can't wait to see the driving video.

Ray


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## gmac (Feb 2, 2010)

Understatement of the year;
"I have made a little more progress"
Tom, I didn't realize you were building then entire car! I'm going to love watching this ...
Careful though....Jay Leno may be phoning soon to talk price... :big:

Great work Tom.

Cheers
Garry


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## Tom T (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks Ray, Garry
Just a couple more pictures.
This shows how I made the seat spring support bracket.




and here it is with the floor boards.


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## ariz (Feb 27, 2010)

so, you're building the whole car, not only the engine 

it's a tremendous project, not many people would attempt such a difficult task :bow:


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## Tom T (Feb 27, 2010)

Ariz yes the whole car and it coming along nicely . but the wood and upholstery has slowed the progress. Here are some more pictures. Tom


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## AlanHaisley (Feb 27, 2010)

Tom,

It is such a joy to follow this build adventure. Thank you.

Alan


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 27, 2010)

Nice work coming together. 
Tin


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## dsquire (Feb 27, 2010)

Tom

This is really starting to shape up nicely. It is nice to see how you went about bending up the seat spring/support. You are doing a great job on this car. Thanks for letting us ride along. :bow:

Cheers 

Don


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## rustranch (Mar 7, 2010)

Ive been following the build of this project with much excitement. Its caused me to conduct more than one search for information and review the few videos on YouTube. Ive been wondering about the carburetor and ignition. Hum I havent found much on brakes either. Still makes me want one. After all Ive seen I cant wait to see the build process of the large spoke wheels and tires. From where I see you its all down hill now. Im awe struck by your talent and vision.


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## Tom T (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks Rustranch. The original engine used a vapor carb. I built a simple mixer with air adjustment you can see it in this thread futher back. I will take some pictures of the ignition and post them. Here are some pictures of the primary drive and the brake band.

The belt pulley on the left is a idler and is where the drive belt rides when the shift lever is in neutral. The pulley on the right is bolted directly to the diff. and is where the drive belt rides when the lever is in drive . The brake band also rides on this pulley and is applied by pulling the lever back past neutral.




This shows the drive belt in drive and the brake band. Tom


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## rustranch (Mar 9, 2010)

Well youve answered another question about a differential. Looks similar to a surplus one Ive looked at to use for a sidewalk battery powered car for grandkids. Lets see a brake band on a drum. Somewhat like Henry Ford used on the Model Ts. So Im guessing the brakes and drive belt controls are interlinked to the lever. Hum another item Ford copied in his Model T. His level was interlinked for Drive, Neutral and what is sometimes called a Hill Holder Brake. From what Ive seen in the video of other Benz models it works similar. Ok in some of the pictures of other replicas people have built of this Benz vehicles Ive noticed a different size rear sprocket on some of them. Must have been hill climbing gearing option they copied. Just kiding. Also been wondering about the steering controls. I look forward to seeing how you replicate it.


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## Tom T (Mar 20, 2010)

Rustranch you are right about the lever. I am working on the rack and pinion steering and will post on that soon.

I went to a swap meet at Chickasha OK yesterday to look for more engines and stuff they powered and found a 1886 Benz on display.
 The car belong to Mcpherson College in KS they were recruiting for students for their auto restoration course.The caretaker said I could take all the measurements and pictures I needed and I did but its a little to late :shrug: Here are a couple of videos I took. Tom


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## AlanHaisley (Mar 20, 2010)

Great videos. The engine by itself would be a remarkable project. Building the whole thing leaves me speachless.

Alan :bow:


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## Tom T (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks Alan
Made some more progress.Here is a few more pictures. Tom


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## cobra428 (Mar 31, 2010)

Very Nice Tom,
But aren't you suppose to wear goggles and one of these backwards? ;D


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## Tom T (Mar 31, 2010)

Cobra the proper hat would be a Derby and I have one for the special occasion. I don't know about the goggles but I may wish I had some when i get hit in the eye by a bug at the blistering speed of 8mph ;D


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## cfellows (Mar 31, 2010)

Well, Tom, your level of progress on this project is just staggering. My hat is certainly off to you!

Chuck


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## potman (Apr 1, 2010)

I love the twin exhaust pipes in the first photo, 
but are they really needed for a single cylinder engine?   ;D

Or are those really rocket boosters for the steep hills?  

Seriously, great project. I'm enjoying it immensely and
would love to see you driving it in the holiday parades.

Thanks for taking the time to share with us.

earl...


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## rustranch (Apr 1, 2010)

Ive greatly enjoyed following this evolving project. So away back in the story you might have stated where you got the beveled gears you used in the timing and I missed it. So were they purchased, adapted from something else or built in the shop. So when you get time Im sure everyone is wondering about the construction of the wheels. So what are you going to use for the tire.


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## Tom T (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks guys
Chuck I picked a big winter project thinking work would be slow and it would give me something to do but I worked all winter and on top of that I decided I needed more room so I poured concrete for a bigger shop. so I have been busy.
Earl dual exhaust thats funny.
Rustranch The gears are from Boston Gear. The rear wheels I was lucky to find my brother was using them for yard art.I just could not figure out how i was going to build them. After i got these wheels I saw the Benz at Chickasaw and could see how they where built so I may go back and build them. The wheels do not run true and I see no way to fix them.The info.on the tire will be in the next post, lets build a front wheel first.

The first step was to build a ring roller and drill some spoke holes in a piece of 1 inch chanel iron and try it out.


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## Maryak (Apr 7, 2010)

Tom T  said:
			
		

> Cobra the proper hat would be a Derby and I have one for the special occasion. I don't know about the goggles but I may wish I had some when i get hit in the eye by a bug at the blistering speed of 8mph ;D



Tom this is simply fantastic. :bow: :bow: :bow: I take my hat off to you, (Ratting Cap backwards with goggles, Derby with muffler and not forgetting the Deerstalker).

Best Regards
Bob


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## ariz (Apr 7, 2010)

_"The first step was to build a ring roller and drill some spoke holes in a piece of 1 inch chanel iron and try it out."_

not only you're building an extremely difficult engine in real scale, but in the same easy way you build everything that is needed along the way

incredible :bow:


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## Deanofid (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm still amazed at all this, Tom. I thought you'd done a life's work when you got the engine done. 
Great stuff!

Dean


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## Tom T (Apr 7, 2010)

Thanks Ariz , Deanofid .  It took less time to build the ring roller then it would have taken to have the ring rolled by a shop in town. 
 Here is a picture of spoke holes being drilled and taped. The mill head is tramed at 7* the rim holes were also drilled a 7*




The spokes were threaded on one end and a head was formed on the other by placing them in a die, heated and forged to the shape of the die. The die was made so that when put in a vice it held the spoke tight . sorry about the bad pictures. The hole in the die and rim were drilled with a center drill to get the bevel.








Here is a picture of the wheel assembled and the tire.




Here is a close up of the end of the tire .The tire is held on to the rim with two wires ran through the two holes in the tire pulled tight and welded this requires a special tool.


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## Kermit (Apr 7, 2010)

Tom T  said:
			
		

> The first step was to build a ring roller and drill some spoke holes in a piece of 1 inch chanel iron and try it out.



Oh please, oh please. Tell us that you haven't built all this and achieved these results in a mere 3 days?  


I'm amazed at the amount of work you do, and the massive amount of work not even shown. 

 :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:
Kermit


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## Tom T (Apr 27, 2010)

Kermit I think it took 3.5 days :big:
 I have made some more progress got the front end done then I took it all apart and painted it an resembled.


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## gbritnell (Apr 27, 2010)

Man, that thing is gorgeous!!!!!
gbritnell


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## rake60 (Apr 27, 2010)

You are building a very sought after replica there Tom.

Everybody knows I am an auction geek.

Give _*THIS*_ a look.
The pre-auction estimate was $50,000 to $70,000 USD.
With the economy being what it is, that replica sold for a rather
disappointing $46,200 USD. Still not a bad price!

The average auction price for a replica as detailed as your own 
can be seen _*HERE*_.
Pretty impressive numbers there.

I believe your build is at the high end there.
Beautiful work!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Rick


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## Tom T (May 4, 2010)

Thanks Rick your post gave me that little push I needed to go ahead finish this up. :big:
It's still needs a little work but it is show time and the show won't wait.
Here is a picture of it in the sun for the first time loaded up and ready to go. Headed to Pawnee OK show may 7.8.9. Tom


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## Deanofid (May 4, 2010)

It's fabulous, Tom. I loved the first half when you built the engine, and thought that was the completed project in the first months of your build. Then you go on to build the complete full scale automobile! It's so beautiful. I love just looking at it. 

About six months for one man to build a whole car.. What a builder you are!

Dean


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## Maryak (May 4, 2010)

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> It's fabulous, Tom. I loved the first half when you built the engine, and thought that was the completed project in the first months of your build. Then you go on to build the complete full scale automobile! It's so beautiful. I love just looking at it.
> 
> About six months for one man to build a whole car.. What a builder you are!
> 
> Dean



I'm with Dean. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## rake60 (May 4, 2010)

Tom T  said:
			
		

> Thanks Rick your post gave me that little push I needed to go ahead finish this up. :big:



GREAT!
So, I'll broker the auction listing for, Oh, Lets say 20%?
LOL

*Beautiful Project Tom!* :bow: :bow: :bow:

Rick


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## slick95 (May 4, 2010)

What a BEAUTY Tom :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

After the show maybe a video for us?

Outstanding work and thanks for sharing...

Jeff


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## IronHorse (May 4, 2010)

Truly amazing :bow: It would take me more then a life time to build that ;D

IronHorse


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## cfellows (May 4, 2010)

Wow, Tom. That really turned out nice. That will be one tough act to follow!

Chuck


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## Royal Viking (May 5, 2010)

Truely Impressive!


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## kvom (May 5, 2010)

I am officially nominating this for June POM ;D  :bow:


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## Deanofid (May 5, 2010)

kvom  said:
			
		

> I am officially nominating this for June POM ;D  :bow:



If someone doesn't beat you to it!!

Dean


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## New_Guy (May 5, 2010)

ok havent chimed into this thread but wow your build is truly inspiring and well im lost for words  thank you for taking your time to share this wonderful build with us :bow:


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## ksouers (May 5, 2010)

Tom,
She's a beauty for sure! No doubt you will grab all the attention in the local parades.


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## Bill Mc (May 12, 2010)

Hi Tom - Thanks for sharing your build here with us at HMEM. I can only think of two things to say. FANTASTIC BUILD and what a TALENTED person you are. Many kudos to you. Enjoy the ride! - Bill Mc


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## Southwell (May 12, 2010)

I was lucky enough to get to see Tom's car last week. It is not only beautiful but it starts effortlessly and runs great. It is very impressive! 
Don


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## bigbud (May 14, 2010)

This "Bud's" for you, *beer* !!!


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## deere_x475guy (Jun 5, 2010)

......Speachless....... :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## Tom T (Jun 5, 2010)

I would like to say a big THANK YOU to Don dsquie for nominating me and to all who supported me with with their encouraging posts . 
 The Benz was a big hit at the show. Here are a couple of pictures I took at the show. I have not driven the car yet. The new drive belt slips on the pulley even with belt dressing so I am going to gear it down some more and try that, if that dosen't work I may try a leather belt. I have been busy doing all the things that I put off for the last eight months and have not done a thing to the benz since the last pictures were posted . Tom


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## steamer (Jun 10, 2010)

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> ......Speachless....... :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:



....best comment I can muster too!  Awesome! th_confused0052


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## ChooChooMike (Jun 11, 2010)

WOW !! I've been absent for the last coupla mos, but was following this build earlier !!

Agree with steamer !! th_confused0052 :bow: :bow: x 100 !!

Mike


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## Tom T (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks again guy it is really nice to log in here and see my Benz on the top of the page.
 I have be busy working on my new shop but found a little time today to take the Benz for its first test drive and was pleased with the results. Here is a video of me driving it in the new shop. If you follow the photo bucket link back to my new home page you can see all most 300 pictures and videos of this build. Tom


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## SAM in LA (Jun 27, 2010)

Tom,

That is one awesome horseless carriage you have built.

In its day I am willing to bet it made children cry and women faint when they saw it coming down the road.

SAM


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## bearcar1 (Jun 27, 2010)

All that is missing is the duster coat and a set of goggles! :big: What a truly maginificent machine Tom. BRAVO!!! :bow:


BC1
Jim


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## cfellows (Jun 27, 2010)

Tom, that's a real nice collection of pictures and videos you put together. Thanks for sharing a lot of good information with us. By the way, how did you fasten the cylinder sleeve inside the water jacket?

Thx...
Chuck

Edit: I just saw the part where you used an o-ring on the bottom. Guess the cylinder is just a sliding fit into the water jacket and not permanently fixed? Also, did you use an o-ring on the top of the sleeve as well?


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## Tom T (Jun 27, 2010)

Thanks guys
Chuck the top of the cylinder has a flange on it and the head holds it in place the head gasket seals it off. No oring on the top. I have not ran the engine long enough to bring the coolent to a boil so I don't know how well this will hold up. Tom


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## shred (Jun 27, 2010)

That's awesome. 

I bet you could have hours of fun with the DMV and department of transportation with that.

"Yeah, I'm here for my driving test... "


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## rustranch (Jul 31, 2010)

So does the incoming air pull through the tank and bubble up from the bottom through the gas, to create more vapors? I'm wondering about the valve that controls the amount of air entering the tank. I also was wondering just how or where are the point arranged. I've seen a picture or two that I think I've found the cam it drives off. Also wondering about what kind of weld you did to attach the flange to the DOM tubing that is now the cylinder liner? I'm still amazed at the scope of your talents. Greatly enjoyed the videos. So did you have to change the gearing ratios to get it going. I know you wrote about that might happen. Take care.


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## Tom T (Aug 3, 2010)

rustranch my engine uses a simple mixer like used on old hit and miss engines. The points ride directly on the cam lobe and are mounted so the timing can be adjusted while the engine is running. If you look at some of the pictures I posted you can see a little lever sticking out beside the right cam bearing this is used to adjust the timing. The flange was beveled and then mig welded to the liner. I change the front sprocket from 17 to 12 teeth but I think its still to fast when I build new rear wheels I will put bigger sprockets on the back. If you need pictures taken of any parts just let me know. Tom


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## rustranch (Aug 11, 2010)

OK I didnt see much on the crank build up in your picture collection. So I've looked closely at some of your pictures. I'm guessing you welded the journals to the throws on the crank then ground down the welds. How did you grind the welds on the inside of the throws? There gone I can't see anything showing they were there? I think I found the points cam and method you build to adjust the point timing. How far does it move and what method did you use to make a friction fit to keep it in place with all the engine vibration. Another wonder I have is what were the snap rings around the Tabasco bottle used for? What did you do to keep the iron/steel from rusting during the build. It sure is shinny and pruty, I'm impressed. I have other questions but am running out of time tonight.


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## Davide970 (Aug 16, 2010)

Semplicemente FANTASTICA..... :bow:


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## rustranch (Aug 18, 2010)

OK I've studied the photo sequence on Photobucket on construction of the head. I remember you posting about hollowing out the head for coolant passages. For the life of me I can't figure out how the coolant gets from the head to the rest of the engine.


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## Tom T (Aug 22, 2010)

Rustranch  The crankshaft was the fist part I built and I didn't take any pictures of it other than the one of the parts that were welded together. The rod journal was welded on the outside and the main journal welded on the inside, a large grinding disc was used to grind the main journal welds.
I used a snap ring with a wave washer behind it to hold the timing disc in place.
I was trying to cut the end off of the bottle to make drip oilers out of them but they keep cracking and I thought the snap rings might help but it didn't and after about 6 tries I let it rest 
The iron/ steel is kept oiled but is starting to rust . I plan on painting this winter.
There are two holes drilled at the top and bottom of the head to allow the coolent in and out. no picture taken.
Here is a video of my son out for a drive at the Winfield KA. show Tom


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## rustranch (Oct 23, 2010)

I was just looking at one or your videos and I noticed that you changed the rear sprockets. Where did you come up with spoked sprockets that size. Most of the larger one I see are solid. Ok course I only hang out at Tractor Supply with a limited selection. The engine seems to like the new gearing listening to its chuf chuf rhythm. So at one of the fall tractor shows you need to look around for a ol buggie step to add to this rig. Might make it easier to get in and out. In studying some of the old pictures and art work of the originals some have them and some don't. Hum maybe it was an option. I dont' think anyone could have stopped by Western Auto for dress up accessories ha ha. Seems to have been on all the Nr3 models. Although it is a much taller vehicle with 49 inch rear tires and the body above a frame with some springs. I guess the height was stately so the driver could look down on the little folks. So are you planning on painting the engine this winter as you mentioned? If you are open to suggestions I would go with a darker red or maybe maroon but with gold pin stripe details. Once again your talent is outstanding and this rig show it and you look like you are having a lot of fun. I'm envious.


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## Tom T (Oct 26, 2010)

Rustranch Thank you. The sprockets were solid I cut the spokes in them. It does need a step and I have a buggy step I got at one of the shows just can't find the time to put it on. I don't know if I am going to paint it or not most people say not to paint it, if i do it will be dark red. I would like to take the engine apart to see how it is holding up. I had to change the valve housing to head gaskets to copper the paper gaskets burnt out other the that it has ran well. Here is a photo and two videos taken at a couple of shows. Tom


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## dsquire (Oct 26, 2010)

Tom

Those are some great video shots there Tom. It is a good thing that you don't have an overdrive gear in it or you would be getting a few speeding tickets. ha ha. You sure look like you are having fun. Keep on enjoying the Benz. :bow: :bow:

Cheers 

Don


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## oldgascar (Dec 20, 2010)

Tom, did you make drawings of the engine ? If so I would love to get a copy. I am willing to pay.

Thanks

Bob


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## cl350rr (Dec 20, 2010)

that has got to be the coolest thing I have ever seen that someone made from scratch...

absolutely in shock.

R


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## Tom T (Dec 20, 2010)

Bob 
no plains or drawings. But lots of pictures if you go to my photobucket site. 
Here is one more picture I took the outher day I think it the best so far. Tom


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## oldgascar (Dec 21, 2010)

Tom, 

Do you plan on having the car in any shows this spring or summer? If possible, I would like to visit to see the car. Would you allow me to take some measurements from your car? Your car is so awsome, I want to build one I will print all the pics you posted and will study them . I Built a replica car over the past few years with a Briggs engine and a tranny from a riding lawnmower, but it doesn't hold a candle to your beautiful Benz. Your new picture is the best yet.

Bob


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## vascon2196 (Aug 21, 2012)

Hi Tom,

Amazing....simply amazing!

Long story short I plan on building the Ford Quadricycle and am looking for an approximate estimate for raw materials, purchased parts, etc.

Would you be willing to share a cost on building your beauty?

It will give me enough to submit a budget.

Thank you!


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## d-m (Aug 21, 2012)

I had all but forgotten about this build I was really glad to see it surface again I reread the entire post. My hat is off to you Tom simply outstanding work, you are a vary talented individual. 
Dave


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## Tom T (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks Dave and vascon,

vascon, I don't have a breakdown of cost or even a total. There is a guy on the yahoo horseless carriage builders group that built a quad and I believe he would gladly help you. He goes by the name stu martyn. you can join the group it is HCRBUILDERSGROUP.

If this does not work for you you could make a parts list and maybe the guys on here and I could help you figure out the cost of them. Or I could figure out a rough estimate of what it cost me. But you can not tell my wife what it cost.      thanks again Tom


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## hilij (Mar 29, 2013)

Hi Tom T I am John Hili from Malta at the moment I am in the process of building the Ford Quadricycle and afterwards I am interested in building the Benz. As for machining I have a fully equipped workshop. The only problem I see is the bevel gears can you please tell me were you bought them? As for your Benz I must say you did a great job!!!


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## marcin-242 (Apr 9, 2013)

This is a four-stroke engine?


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## Tom T (Apr 9, 2013)

Marcin  yes this engine is 4 stroke.

Hilij  I will try to find the gear info.


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## marcin-242 (Apr 19, 2013)

Hello, I have one question. what is the ratio of the transmission angle of the flywheel? Dimensions modes. Thank you for your reply.


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## hilij (Apr 20, 2013)

Anybody can tell me were I can find a set of drawings for the BENZ 1886.


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## Tom T (Apr 21, 2013)

Marcin    I am not sure what your needing. Is it the stroke of the crankshaft that your wanting.  

Hilij  I have no plans  I gave all my notes to a guy and he  may try to put some together  if he does I will post them here .


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## hilij (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks Tom T, I am not in a hurry, at the moment I am working on Ford's First engine and at the same time I am preparing all the materials and part to make Fords Quadricycle, That is apart from taking care of my collection of 117 stationary engines))


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## vascon2196 (Apr 28, 2013)

I just finished my (second) "First Ford Engine"...just in case you run into any problems. And I'm building a Quadricycle too!


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## hilij (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks for your offer, if I get stuck I will come back to you. I have just ordered a set of drawings from George De Angelis for the Ford Quadricycle.


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## brimin (Apr 15, 2018)

Tom T. Firstly...an amazing project. I cannot however see the photos. Do you have a single document I could obtain to be used to build my own?


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## Ken Brunskill (Jun 2, 2020)

If any one is still looking at this thread, I am 81 and will be moving to a Sr. Residence in the next 4 years, so I want to build an Benz engine scale to equal a 4" Flywheel. To that end I am using (and learning) Solidworks to do the design, still a set of plans would be very helpful. Anyone know of a source?


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## stevehuckss396 (Jun 2, 2020)

There is someone on this forum goes by the name * gg89220. PM him and see if he can tell you where he got his drawings.*


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## Richard Hed (Jun 3, 2020)

vascon2196 said:


> I just finished my (second) "First Ford Engine"...just in case you run into any problems. And I'm building a Quadricycle too!


Just so you know:  "A good craftsman never blames his tools" -- I blame MY krappy little Enco for crappy workmanship.  I have to be extremely cautious with this tool, and even then, the stuff comes out not so hot.  I am used to using much larger lathes which hold their tolerances to 1/2 thou without blinking an eye.


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