# PM Research Inc. 5BI



## n4zou (Apr 11, 2011)

I traded about an hour of shop time for a new in the box PM Research Inc. 5BI casting kit. The guy I got it from told me he ordered it in March of 1990. He told me he attempted to build a smaller steam engine kit and scraped the cylinder. That put him off doing this kit and put it away. Subsequently he sold the machinery his farther had passed to him. I purchased a Rockwell Drill Press from him so that is how he came to know me and my little shop. 

This 5BI is cast of all red bronze. I looked at the PM-R site and discovered this kit all bronze kit is no longer sold. The current 5BI is a mix of bronze, cast iron, and aluminium. Due to the economy I'm covered up with work from people wanting parts made for stuff they would have scrapped out just a few years ago. Machining this kit may take some time. 
I'm uploading a couple of pictures of the kit before I remove the parts from the box and start working on them.


----------



## b.lindsey (Apr 11, 2011)

They used to do that with all of their kits and I have an all bronze 5B also in the box though probably not quite that old. Its on my list to do but not for a while yet... needs a bit more aging i think :big:

Bill


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 11, 2011)

A few years ago when the price of copper went crazy they went from all bronze casting kits to bronze and cast Iron . I have a 3b kit from IIRC 2000 as well as a 2B that I machined and display. They were purchased at the same time from Blue ridge machine. 
I have since purchased a dynamo and a 3bi kit. I want to do the bronze up and leave it natural and do up the bI kit paint it and do a clear cylinder. 
Tin


----------



## bearcar1 (Apr 11, 2011)

N4, it's too bad your friend did not pursue getting a replacement part from PMR. They are terrific to deal with in those terms. I've done the 5B1 and have another set of the bronze casting sets in the cabinet. I like the quality of their casting sets, they are almost too perfect and do not require a great deal of material removal most times. The hardest step to perform on that engine I think is drilling the holes for the main bearing caps. The holes are in such close proximity to the casting body it requires an extra long drill bit. One can be purchased to perform the job but with some patience and a bit of silver solder, a small brass coupler, and a length of steel rod, one can be made to suit without a lot of hassle. Other than that, it was a delight to machine. 

BC1
Jim


----------



## n4zou (Apr 12, 2011)

I got a little extra time today so I've officially started making chips.
I chucked the frame in the 4-jaw chuck. I used a 1/2 drill to hold the top of the frame centred deep in the chuck as I trued up the base. I faced off the base to size and then ran that 1/2 drill through the hole in the top of the frame to clean it up. I then marked the frame with a sharpie where jaw #1 was clamped. I then loosened jaws # 1 and 2 and removed the frame flipping it around. I then aligned the mark on the frame with jaw # 3 and tightened it up with jaws # 1 and 2 with the machined base flat on the chuck face. The hole in the top of the frame perfectly aligned with drill bit, yea! Everything depends on getting that first cut perfect as everything else must align perfectly with it. I used a large centre drill to prepare the hole for the live centre. I then turned the shoulder at the top of the frame just enough to clean it up. I then put my steady rest on the shoulder and oiled it. I'm now ready to bore out the frame. At this point I was going to take a picture and discovered my battery needed to be recharged. Oh well, thats how it goes. At least I got one picture out of it before it quit.
This picture was taken just before I started making chips. I'll take a picture of two in the morning and post it later.


----------



## DOC123 (Apr 13, 2011)

Very nice to see. I'm in the process of finishing the more modern version of this engine with Only a few more bits to go. I agree with the comment about drilling the holes for the main bearing caps. I milled the surfaces flat and superglued the caps in place. I then drilled them from below making little holes in the base in the process. I plan on using the holes to mount the frame on the base.
Good luck with the build.


----------



## n4zou (Apr 14, 2011)

I finished up the Lathe work on the frame today. No issues encountered at all. 

First picture shows cleaning up the top shoulder leaving it oversized just a little so I can make a finish cut on it after boring. The reason for this? My steady rest will be used on it of course!

Second picture shows the steady rest in position and ready to bore it out. 

Third picture: All turning and boring is finished and I've set the lathe up to mark the centre line of the bore.
Due to the bottle shape of the frame there is no flat surface that corresponds with the bore. Scribing lines on the frame provides an easy way to setup the mill by chucking a scribe in the drill chuck and aligning the part in the vice by using the lines as reference points. 

Fourth picture shows the alignment lines.


----------



## ileed (Apr 15, 2011)

FWIW

It wasn't easy, but I built this model on Sherline equipment.


----------



## n4zou (Apr 19, 2011)

I've run into a problem. I 'found' a void in the cylinder casting. No way to fix this as it extends into the cylinder bore. I'm going to contact PM-R and see if they will provide a replacement. I could fix it with JB Weld but PM-R really should send me a replacement cylinder. I could very well find another void should I continue machining this one as the bronze was not at the proper temperature when this one was cast.


----------



## Swede (Apr 19, 2011)

I understand it's irritating, but wouldn't this void be concealed, and not hinder the functionality of the engine?

Regardless, if you can get a replacement, that'd be better. Good luck with it.


----------



## rleete (Apr 19, 2011)

PMR is very good about replacement parts, from my experience. I didn't even get the kit from them directly, but through an ebay vendor. They replaced the defective part (same problem, voids) immediately.


----------



## ChooChooMike (Apr 19, 2011)

Ditto on PMR about replacing parts - I trashed a cylinder end-cap for the 2A wobbler. They replaced it very quickly !

Mike


----------



## slkride (Apr 19, 2011)

I have a bronze 5BI also in the box awaiting. will be following your build closely good luck

                                                         Tom


----------



## n4zou (Apr 20, 2011)

My first message to PM-R came back as undeliverable-WTF? I used the contact page on the PM-R contact page. I just filled out the form again to ask about a replacement once more. If this one comes back undeliverable again I'll resort to calling them on the phone. If I end up not getting a replacement I'll use bar stock and machine a new cylinder myself. 
I went to Enco last night an ordered some shop tools and while there added a #50 6" Aircraft drill for the crank shaft caps. The distance from the caps to the top of the frame is 4" so it'll be perfect and will make drilling the caps and frame much easier.


----------



## bearcar1 (Apr 20, 2011)

Hang in in there N4 about contacting PMR, they DO take care of their customers and in short order. I'm sure that the returned email message was due to a spelling error in the address line or something simple. They are still around I'm sure so do not be discouraged. Besides, without seeing what the inside of that casting looks like, a bit of silver solder will fill that defect and once it gets machined to clean the excess it would be hard to distinguish any sort of flaw existed. 

BC1
Jim


----------



## n4zou (Apr 21, 2011)

Another returned undeliverable message and no one is answering the phone. I guess I'll wait until this holiday season is over. Perhaps they shutdown for Passover? Who knows! You would think the messaging system would at least work. I had been thinking about ordering a 4CI but obviously that's not going to happen now. If they can't maintain a simple message system or an answering machine............


----------



## b.lindsey (Apr 21, 2011)

From my experience with them it doesn't sound typical at all. I am wondering if that part of the country possibly suffered some of the same storms that rampaged through the southeast and mid atlantic states last weekend. Some areas in the Carolinas are just not getting power back on. If so, that would explain a lot.

Bill


----------



## n4zou (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm going to ignore the void. I faced that end of the cylinder a little more and just barely isolated the void from the bore. I flipped the cylinder over and machined the other end. I clamped my 4" precision vice on the mill, aligned it, and clamped it down. Here is a photo of the cylinder clamped in the vice with a precision square and a bubble level I used to get the part setup properly before machining it.


----------



## n4zou (Apr 23, 2011)

Finished the cylinder except drilling and taping the holes for the cover. I can't do that until I finish the cover.


----------



## n4zou (May 3, 2011)

Piston done, Slide done, Inside cylinder cap ready for drilling and taping 2 holes for the gland nut, base fly cut, and the flywheel turned, and I centre drilled both ends of the crankshaft. I started to turn the pulley and found my 3 and 4 jaw chucks were too big to hold it and turn the outside diameter. I subsequently turned a shaft and and made a drive dog for it. I went ahead and drilled the 5/16 hole and faced the boss. I then chucked up a 3/8 rod, centre drilled and turned it down to 5/16 -.002 and threaded it 5/16-18. The dog was made from 1/2 key stock using my mill. I drilled a 5/16 hole on one end and a 3/8 hole on the other. I then cut a 1/4 X 1" slot for a 1/4-20 bolt. I then drilled and taped both ends for 1/4-28 set screws. I drilled through and tapped into the slot so two set screws hold firm on the crank shaft and the shaft I made to turn the pulley. Below are pictures of the parts I've finished so far and the pulley ready to be turned. The dog will also be used to turn the crank shaft between centres. Live centre on one end and then I'll chuck and turn a peace of 3/8 rod to 60 degrees which will become the dead centre. This will guarantee both sides of the crank shaft will be perfectly concentric.


----------



## n4zou (May 7, 2011)

Threading 3/32 rods for 3-48. 
My chuck is too large to properly hold such a small rod. I had no problem turning and threading the 1/8" piston/slide rod (except for my lathe seizing up but that's another story). I got around this 'small problem' by making a soft jaw from aluminium hex rod. I chucked up a small peace of the alum rod facing, centre drilling, and drilling through with a 3/32 drill. After marking the side so I could return it to the same position I removed it and using a worn hacksaw blade I cut a slit right to the 3/32 hole. I then aligned the the soft jaw in the chuck, inserting the 3/32 rod, and firmly tightened the chuck down on the soft jaw. It firmly held the 3/32 rod so I proceeded to thread it. The result is shown below. 

Lathe seizure story here: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=14426.0


----------



## Jtrain (May 8, 2011)

I also got a 5BI kit a few weeks ago. Very interesting to see and read how others work on it. I now have an idea where to start, but how, I'm not sure, because my lathe has a 5 inch chuck. Also finding out what I need for tooling and accessories, now for sure I'll have to order a four jaw chuck, plus many other items.


----------



## n4zou (May 8, 2011)

If your inventive you can do everything you need to do with just a 3 jaw chuck. I've used shims between one or two jaws to get square or odd shaped parts properly aligned in a 3 jaw chuck. It's time consuming and really slows things down but it can be done. I survived without a 4 jaw chuck in my youth when I was just starting out with a worn out South Bend Lathe and a (slightly damaged) Bridgeport vertical mill. A fork lift had ran into the left hand side of the table and broken the handle and the brass lead screw nut within. I made a new lead screw nut and did without the left side handle. Both of them were headed to the scrap yard so I purchased them for scrap metal prices. I vividly remember when I got a contract that would pay me enough to buy a new Taiwan Lathe with all the goodies including a 4 jaw chuck and a face plate. I was able to purchase a new vertical mill as well with a discount. I still have them. When I retired I took them with me. That's been over 30 years ago. Anyway, just take your time and and figure things out as you go. 
Having a 4 jaw chuck is a worthwhile investment if you plan on doing more projects in the future.


----------



## n4zou (May 19, 2011)

I've been volunteering here in Alabama with Tornado damage mitigation. It's been a while sense I've had time to work on the 5BI due to this. Today I got to open the box on my new vice and use it. It's a 2 piece 6" model H2992 from Grizzly. This vice is going to make my mill setup and operation so much easier! No more time consuming setup time with a dial indicator. Just use a machinist square ageist the table and vice face and clamp it down. I checked it with an indicator the first time and I was within .0005 across the 6 inch face. It'll be easy to setup angel cuts as well. This is without installing keys in the slots provided. I simply do not need them. You must make your own keys for this vice if you want them. The specs said the vice jaws measured 2 1/4 X 6 inches but when I opened the box I found the jaws were 3 X 6 inches. Sweet! This is a really heavy duty vice too. Much better than the 4" vice I've been using for 30+ years. I paid over $300 for it way back then. Anyway; I completed the Eccentric and started working on the frame too. I cut the crank shaft bearing faces smooth and parallel and then flipped the frame upside down vertical to mill the bosses for crankshaft.


----------



## n4zou (May 21, 2011)

I started working on the rod today. They did not leave much meat to work with. The crankshaft end should be .250 thick. They just gave me .032 over that. The other end is already at .240 which is what is called for on the drawing. I ended up using a file and fitting it by hand. 

I'm still loving my new vice. I had a walk-in job which required my precision vice. I put my precision vice in my new vice and did the job in less time than would have required taking my old vice off the mill and clamping the precision vice on the mill and indicating it in before starting that job.


----------



## n4zou (May 24, 2011)

I cut the valve slide bosses so I could drill and tap the frame for the crankshaft bearing caps. Drilling the holes with a #50 aircraft drill was easy but tapping them was tough. I had to make a tiny wrench to turn the tap. This was a slow and tedious operation. I was so worried about breaking the tap but I got away with it. I used a 1/8 Woodruff key cutter to cut the recess for the drill. This worked out perfectly.


----------



## n4zou (May 27, 2011)

I drilled and reamed the frame and pillow blocks for the crank shaft. I then turned both ends of the crank shaft between centres. I chucked a 3/8" shaft cut a 60 degree point for use as the dead centre. I used my live centre for the other end of the shaft, of course. I used the dog engaged with a chuck jaw I made for this job. Turning the ends was no big deal. I turned both ends to .313 then used some fine sandpaper and polished them to .312. I ran into a setup problem when turning the crankshaft throw. My 8 inch 4 jaw chuck was too big for this tiny crankshaft. What I did to fix this problem was chuck the dog I made to turn the pulley and crankshaft and use it to hold the crankshaft. This worked out perfectly. If you do not have a 4 jaw chuck you could clamp a similar dog to a face plate and then turn the crankshaft throw. The first thing I did was centre the 5/16 hole in the dog using an indicator. After getting it within .0005 I put a 1" dial indicator against the jaw that would be moved .437 for the proper offset throw. I then moved it .437 and tightened the apposing jaw. I then double checked the offset using a dial calliper measuring between the point of the live centre and end of the crankshaft. I was dead on. I then proceeded to turn the crankshaft throw. I worked slow taking no more than .010 cuts. I fiddled around with it for at least a hour being very careful. Some would say I was being overly careful but the last thing I wanted to do was break it and have half a crankshaft lodged in my head. Everything worked out so I proceeded to put the crankshaft in the frame. It was a little tight but after spinning the crankshaft in a drill press chuck while holding the frame after less than a minute of break in turning it freed up nicely.


----------



## n4zou (Jun 5, 2011)

I worked on machining the small parts and finished them. Now I'm using my rotary table to drill 4 #50 holes in a 1" BC for mounting the cylinder to the frame. For whatever reason I'm getting an error when attempting to post pictures. Oh well! Sorry but it's not my fault.......


----------



## n4zou (Jun 8, 2011)

I have completed this engine kit. It runs smooth as any double acting steam engine should. This kit is not for the inexperienced machinist/engine builder! I attempted to post pictures of the completed engine but unfortunately this forum still has an upload problem. This problem has not been corrected for over a week so I guess someone has lost interest in maintaining this forum.


----------



## n4zou (Jun 8, 2011)

I uploaded the pictures of the completed engine to my photo-bucket account so you can view them.


----------



## GailInNM (Jun 8, 2011)

n4zou  said:
			
		

> I attempted to post pictures of the completed engine but unfortunately this forum still has an upload problem. This problem has not been corrected for over a week so I guess someone has lost interest in maintaining this forum.



No interest has been lost on maintaining the forum. The technical administration has been working on it but has not found the source of the problem yet.

As you have found photos stored in an external storage such as Photobucket, Google etc are unaffected so that is a workaround for the moment.

Nice looking engine. Thanks for the posting.

Gail in NM


----------



## lazylathe (Jun 8, 2011)

Engines looks good!

I have a question on finishing the castings though.
Is there a way to get rid of the rough surface?
Is filing it and shaping it the only way to get a smooth surface?
Or is it supposed to be left rough?

Andrew


----------



## n4zou (Jun 8, 2011)

That's up to you! Originally the manufacturer would have painted the rough castings of they are cast iron. If cast of brass like mine that is never going to rust it would have been left alone. Remember that the manufacturer is not going to do any work that is not required to the engines operation. This is the reason I will not paint or polish my engine castings. If you wanted to smooth the castings by hand and paint it you could very well do that. The new 5BI kit has a cast iron frame along with a few other cast iron parts and those should be painted. Personally I would just leave them rough and paint it as this is what the manufacturer would have done. In the end it's a personal choice. If you want to clean up the castings you could start by using a Dremal with sanding disks and work down to hand sanding and polishing them.


----------



## lazylathe (Jun 8, 2011)

Thanks for the info!!!!
Mine are cast bronze, so i may just bead blast it to get a bit of a shine!

Andrew


----------

