# Snow Tandem Engine



## joe d (Nov 13, 2009)

Hi all

A couple of years ago when I was working on the Vertical Single that is my avatar, I had a couple of months to spare while I was waiting for the castings. So, in order to keep myself out of trouble, I started on the Snow Tandem as published in Home Shop Machinist (2006-07). Then I received my castings, and the Snow went into the "Pending" box and has stayed there ever since until now. So, I've dusted off the bits already done and am digging back into this one.

Here's what I had achieved back then: the cylinders, partially finished combustion chambers, partially finished heads, and partially finished pedestals for the cylinders






I note that I've got a lot of cleaning up to do on these parts, my standards for minimum acceptable finish has certainly become higher with experience ( I was entirely a newbie at that point!)

So, I've started now by finishing off the machining of the steel pedestals that hold up the cylinder assemblies:

Milling the decorative relief in the side:





Milling the cut-out top portion:





And here they are:





This is certainly going to be the most complex bit of engineering that I've ever attempted yet, should be a fun ride!

Cheers, Joe


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 13, 2009)

Excellent. We'll enjoy the ride with you. Keep at it!


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## Cedge (Nov 13, 2009)

Joe
I've just buckled my seat belt for this ride. I first saw this engine at Cabin Fever Expo, a couple of years back, and watched it run with a sense of awe. It was far beyond my meager abilities back then but I've always thought it would make a fascinating build. I'm looking forward to having a front row seat as you progress.

Steve


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## tel (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm in as well - did anyone bring popcorn?


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## Captain Jerry (Nov 14, 2009)

Congratulations on a bold undertaking. IMHO anyone who sees this engine and doesn't take a minute to consider the possibility of building it needs a little boost to their imagination. I am really glad to see it underway and I will be following along. Thanks for letting us watch.

Jerry


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## cfellows (Nov 14, 2009)

I agree with Jerry. First time I saw it I thought, "Man, I gotta build one of those"! 

Chuck


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## gld (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi Joe

There is a Yahoo group deicated to the Snow :  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Snowtandemengine/

I done a bulk buy on seals for the group and still have some available. You can contact me thru the group or e-mail direct.

Gary Davison


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## joe d (Nov 14, 2009)

Thanks guys...

I'm in agreement with Jerry & Chuck, how could you see this and not want to try it? Steve: after your last few projects, i think you could do this one standing on your head. Zee: I will have to train you in "foreign" measuring systems, here in Canada we get "Smarties" instead of M&Ms... Tel: What's that popcorn stuff? you're an Aussie, so it's a crate of 4X and goodbye to the arvo, no?

Gary: I in fact got the seals from you two years ago :big: you had offered them on the HSM site.

Cheers, Joe


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## Twmaster (Nov 14, 2009)

Can somebody point me to some photos of this engine? A Google search came up with very little.


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## RobWilson (Nov 14, 2009)

Looking GOOD Joe ;D

Rob


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## twineman (Nov 14, 2009)

I saw a full sized 1912 version of one these engines running at the "Florida Flywheel Antique Engine Club" in Ft. Meade, in 2006 while down there attending the Dayton 500. I was totally amazed at the size of this thing and how smooth it ran with very little noise.

Shortly after I returned home Home Shop Machinist mag published the plans and I decided one day I would build one. In '07 I saw a model running at the Oregon Gears show in Portland OR and that hooked me. I have collected most of the items that I need to start this engine and as soon as I finish the two I am currently working on now the Snow will be next.

Allen


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## joe d (Nov 15, 2009)

Allen: I envy your having seen the full size one. Seeing the model on the cover of HSM magazine caused me to pick up the magazine that I had previously never noticed...
TWMaster: try on youtube, there are (or at least, were)several videos of full sized ones and couple of model ones clearly based on the same plans I'm using.

Having put the last coat of paint on the hallway walls yesterday, I'm now in a Painting-free zone until the spring, so I was able to get some work done in the shop...

Getting stuck in to the combustion chambers, started with drilling and counterboring for the spark plugs. Got lucky here, happened to have the right sized pilot for the right sized counter bore!





Tapped the hole with a brand-new 1/4-32 tap (sure is nice using a new tap!)





And here it is with an NGK ME-8 in place (When I kitted up to build this, I bought sparkplugs, at that time had not seen anywhere instructions on how to build your own)





Here I'm through-boring for the valve cage





And here it is with the valve cage mounting holes drilled and tapped, hanging on by gravity alone where it belongs. Still have to drill clearance holes for the head bolts. This part will have 15 through holes, one of them tapped, and 10 blind-tapped holes. There is four of this part. That's a lot of tapping!





That's all for now, stay tuned!

Joe


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## Deanofid (Nov 15, 2009)

Staying tuned, indeed! 
This is a very interesting engine, (that seems to have a lot of tapped holes!). Looks like it's going along very well.

Joe, in the fourth picture of your first post on this thread, I see what looks like an engine in the back ground, upper right side. What'cha got there?

Dean


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## joe d (Nov 16, 2009)

You've got a good eye there, Dean! That is the first runner I ever built, a '47 Woodson Vertical Single Cylinder (which is my avatar as well). Here's a better view for you:










I built a pair of them, the other one is numbered "1" on the steam chest, but No 2 ran first. They both need a tear-down, cleaning and re-assembly, hooked up the air to them both a few weeks ago and neither one ran.....

Cheers, Joe


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## tel (Nov 16, 2009)

joe d  said:
			
		

> Tel: What's that popcorn stuff? you're an Aussie, so it's a crate of 4X and goodbye to the arvo, no?
> 
> Cheers, Joe



XXXX? Nah we export that to Canada and Pommyland and drink Toohey's Old Black 'ere.


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 16, 2009)

Nice project Joe and nice first runner(s). Yeah...get them running again and show a vid!


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## joe d (Nov 19, 2009)

Hi all

Thanks, DIY. 

Tel: In my corner of Canada, the only Aussie brew we see is Fosters, and it's not even the real stuff, they brew it here..

Zee: started tuning up the Woodsons, video will show up one of these days...

Got a little further along with the Snow, finished the combustion chambers except for cleaning them up, that will happen much later as there is a certain amount(read LOTS) of install-uninstall to go in the build process. Drilled and tapped for the head bolts in one end of one of the cylinders, stuck the combustion chamber and head on to see how it looks. Still have to make the head covers.

Gave up and left the shop after drilling the first hole in the other end of the cylinder, the hole is right on the mark as laid out, so I guess I was cross-eyed when I did the layout as it's out by too much to fudge... so I'll be drilling oversize, tapping & plugging with a bit of threaded rod, and starting over.... happily there is JUST enough room for this (sometimes it pays to be lucky :big

Looks like this on the end I didn't bugger up:





Cheers, Joe


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## joe d (Nov 24, 2009)

Some more progress...

If you look at the top-right hole, you can just see the plug I installed to make up for my cross-eyed layout... drilled oversize, tapped, soldered in a little chunk of threaded rod, stuck the whole thing on a mandrel and indicated it in & faced it off, re-did the layout IN THE RIGHT SPOT and carried on :big:





And here we are to date... all the head bolt holes drilled and tapped, everything stuck together to see what it looks like:





Onwards & upwards...

Joe
(edited to insert the right photo)


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## Cedge (Nov 24, 2009)

Joe....
Things are looking good there. I'm just afraid you're going to infect me with the snow bug before I can get to the projects already ahead of it on my wish list...LOL

Steve


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## joe d (Nov 24, 2009)

Steve

There is NO known cure for projectitus! :big: Sorry 'bout that!

Joe


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## Cedge (Nov 24, 2009)

Joe...
Tell me about it...LOL. I just took the first steps toward getting the needed HSM issues containing the project. I've either got to learn to work faster or I've got to quit looking at these build logs on the forums.

Steve


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## joe d (Nov 24, 2009)

Steve:

After following your Water Pressure build, and the the Victorian, I have NO SYMPATHY for your plight..... you've done the same thing to lots of us! :big: :big:

You've got to get busy with another one, I really enjoyed following along.

Cheers, Joe


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## joe d (Nov 25, 2009)

Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate at this late date....

Got some more done on the cylinder assemblies...

cut out 4 pieces for cylinder head covers, ganged them on a mandrel in a collet and turned them to size all together






Then faced them to print dimension (first time I tried facing by sticking the work on a faceplate with 2-sided tape... it works a treat with light cuts)





I used the cylinder heads as drilling jigs for the head bolt holes in the covers, as I know that they match those in the cylinders, then set them up in the 4-jaw:





and then moved the chuck onto the indexing head (knew that this thing would come in handy) and drilled the bolt circle tapping size, opened up the holes in the cover to clearance size afterwards in the drillpress





Tapped a bunch of 2-56 holes with my effective, if less than pretty tapping guide





and here's one stack in place





The holes in the head and cover for the piston rod and it's bushing are undersized at the moment, I'll bore them to final size using the same setup when I line-bore the cylinder, hopefully this will give me the best chance at concentricity.

Well, that's enough for today!

Cheers All, Joe


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## Deanofid (Nov 25, 2009)

Lots of good looking work here, Joe. 
Looks like that new dividing head you made is working out well!

Dean


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## joe d (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks, Dean. Now that I've used it for something other than drilling hole circles on dividing plates I like the dividing head more as well.....

A little further along...

Bought a flywheel from Debolt, given that I use a Taig lathe there is no possible way I'm turning a flywheel that is over 9" dia in the rough, so I jobbed it out. Came out nice, though. Then I got busy with the collet to hold it on the shaft, turned out to be some sort of mystery metal (thought it CRS) that was absolutely miserable to machine. Burned the edge off several toolbits, it was nasty to drill, and not much nicer to tap. Oh well, it's done...
Here I'm drilling the mounting holes in the drillpress with out removing it from the chuck, then remounted the chuck on the lathe to part it off. Promptly burned the tip off the parting tool, so I hacksawed the son of a gun, and cleaned it up by filing.





Here it is with the flywheel





Also turned the bronze bushings for the piston rods, straightforward turning and parting operation, so I didn't take a picture of the process, 

And now I've moved on to the valve cages: 8 blanks hacksawed out of the parent material





And partway done... bought valves way back when I first kitted up for this engine, only have to trim them a little bit





And that's all for now.

Joe
(edited to remove duplicated photo)


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## Rustkolector (Nov 30, 2009)

Joe,
I suggest that you add two 4-40 threaded holes in the flywheel hub at 180 degrees to push against the end of the hub allowing easier loosening of the flywheel from the hub. A taper lock bushing can get pretty tight. Just make sure when you install the flywheel on the hub, that neither of these two jacking screws are lined up with the split in the hub. 
Jeff


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## joe d (Nov 30, 2009)

Jeff

That is an excellent suggestion. I will do so, and thank you!

Joe


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## joe d (Dec 6, 2009)

more valve cage progress...

having turned one end to size, flipped them over and turned the other end to size leaving a boss for the valve spring





off to the mill to make a flat for the rocker arm bracket, tap drilled in the same setup so the mounting holes would be perpendicular to the face. Have to wait for some taps to arrive, I've only got a starting tap in this size, bottoms out with about 1/4 turn of thread cut...





Flats done, flip 'em over, find centre and drill for the flange, using another one as a spacer in the vise





Drilled and turned exhaust flange being parted off, had to move the steady a bit to clear the parting tool. (all that was to maximize the parts from that piece of stock, so after doing two of them is when i noticed that I had drilled way oversize, by then the stock was short enough that I didn't need the steady anymore.) (and, of course, now don't have enough of the material to do the intake flanges) (Doh!)





And here it is just stuck in place. ( I will silver solder them in place after I've turned the valves to size, as I'm going to chamfer the valve seats using the same setup used for turning the valves so that the angles will match). I'll drill and tap the flanges once they are soldered in place.





Well, that's about all for now!

Cheers, Joe


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## joe d (Dec 10, 2009)

a little further along with the valves....

I had bought some ready-made valves that were oversized for what I need, so popped them in a collet and cut them down to size





Then without changing the set-up for the compound, (except for changing the tool) cut the valve seats





Then off to the mill to cross-drill the valve stems for the keeper pin.... a #59 drill.... smallest I've ever done yet. Cranked up the speed and all went well. The drill chuck is a beat-up looking 1/4" Jacobs that I salvaged from a black and decker drill that I got second hand 35 years ago.... and it runs true!





Here is one valve finished beside one as bought. They are some sort of stainless that has had me nervous about the machining, but the stuff cut like a dream. 





Tested them out using the tried and true "suck it and see" process: put the valves in the cages in the "closed" position, sucked on the hole where the flange will go, and had a perfectly satisfactory "pop" when moving the valve to "open". These things may well work!

Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Dec 10, 2009)

Nice job on the valve and cage, Joe.
Where did you buy ready made valve blanks?

Dean


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## joe d (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks Dean.

Got the valves from Debolt machine, same guys I bought the flywheel from.

Joe


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 11, 2009)

Nicely done.
I would have to think it was more than just satisfying though.


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## joe d (Dec 12, 2009)

Thanks, Zeep! And you're right, it was very satisfying ;D

Inbetween several honeydo's got the flanges silver soldered into place, and have drilled and tapped a couple of them:





things are moving right along!

Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Dec 13, 2009)

Good looking work there, Joe.
(And, thanks for the heads up re: Debolt.)

Dean


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## joe d (Dec 14, 2009)

Thanks, Dean, and you're welcome!

I've finished the valve cages. A lot of stuff going on in these little things. The last thing was the springs, keepers, and pins. Turned some stock down to the required size, through drilled, counterbored with a nice new end mill





Had to open up the counterbore as the endmill was too small, the cut the boss using the parting tool, shifted it over and parted off





here are all the parts for one assembly





and, here they are!





I spent several hours yesterday trying to form the springs myself, but as I don't have a screw-cutting lathe, was working free-hand and this really doesn't work well for compression springs... used up a fair bit of piano wire proving that..... so went out this morning and bought some.

Now, off to shovel some snow out of the drive.

Cheers, Joe


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## Speedy (Dec 15, 2009)

watching in amazement :bow:

you have snow, light dusting here in Toronto.


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## joe d (Dec 15, 2009)

Speedy

We're both better off than Ottawa, white-outs on the 416, multiple car pile-ups northbound, southbound down to one lane while they remove all the cars from the median... I've got a mere couple of inches to move.

Incidentally, congrats on the mill!

Cheers, Joe


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 15, 2009)

It gets more and more interesting.
tel...did you get that popcorn? got any left?


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## crankshafter (Dec 15, 2009)

Hi Joe.
Nice engine that Snow Tandem. Have been following your and others work from day #1  :bow:
Btw: There are so many nice engines under construction for the time being that I have hardly no time to work on my own.
I have had my Hoglet on the shelve more or less for the last month or so, due to moving the shop/ spare-partsdepartment where I work to a new place. But hope we are finished before Christmas.
Crankshafter.


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## Deanofid (Dec 15, 2009)

That's a lot of valve cages gathered together in one place! Good work, Joe.

Dean


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## tel (Dec 15, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> It gets more and more interesting.
> tel...did you get that popcorn? got any left?



I thought you were bringing it Zee - I just brung along the beer!


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## joe d (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks, Zee. Crankshafter: I've been following the hoglet builds with great interest! I'd like to try that one one day, it's the closest to a bike that I'll ever get ;D  Dean: Thanks, and it sure is a lot of them! Tel: don't depend on Zee for the snacks, he'll be bringing you M&Ms instead of popcorn, and then he'll eat them all. And judging by some previous posts in another thread, he gets snarky about his perceived share of the beer.....

Presently plotting and planning the order of machining for the rocker arm brackets, will probably start cutting metal tomorrow.

Cheers All, Joe


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 15, 2009)

joe d  said:
			
		

> don't depend on Zee for the snacks,....he gets snarky about his perceived share of the beer.....



 Rof} Rof} Rof}
Only when it's owed me.


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## joe d (Dec 26, 2009)

Hi all

In between baking cookies and butter tarts and other christmassy stuff, I've snuck in some shop time here and there...got the rocker arm brackets done except for final cleaning up.

Started out by bolting the material on a sacrificial plate on the rotary table to mill the rounded-over end, and then mill the decorative reliefs in the sides






Then in the vise to cut off the excess on one side





milled out the slot that forms the arms, and drilled the mounting holes





Then they got flipped over to cut off the excess material on the other side. You'll notice some quick & dirty filing buttons I made up out of some drill rod, so that I wouldn't mess up the radius on the end when cleaning up the cut with a file. As they only had to last for 8 parts, I didn't harden them





One more cut to make the radius at the bottom of the arms, 





And here we are!





Still some cleanup to do, and then on to rocker arms!

Even better, don't have to be back to work until Tuesday... can you say SHOP TIME ;D

Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Dec 26, 2009)

You do nice work, Joe! 
This seems to be a pretty complicated build, and you just keep plowing through it. Good job!

Dean


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## joe d (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks, Dean.

This is a very busy build indeed, but like anything else, get in and get going and next thing you know you've got another part in the scrapbox so you can do it right the second time :big: :big:

Got back out in the shop after supper and got half of the brackets cleaned up before my fingers gave out with all that sanding and polishing, here's a snap of the where they belong





Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Dec 26, 2009)

joe d  said:
			
		

> Thanks, Dean.
> 
> This is a very busy build indeed, but like anything else, get in and get going and next thing you know you've got another part in the scrapbox so you can do it right the second time :big: :big:
> 
> Cheers, Joe



Har!
Nothing funnier than the truth, Joe. I've got a cruddy cold, and now I have pink cough syrup shooting out my nose. Thanks for that! The laugh did me good.

I really like the looks of this engine. I remember seeing photos of one some years ago in a magazine and thinking "what a neat contraption". (That's a compliment, in every sense of the word.)

Keep up the good work.

Dean


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## vlmarshall (Dec 26, 2009)

Wow, this is really looking good. So many threads, I can't follow them all... I've somehow been missing this one!




			
				joe d  said:
			
		

> Tel: don't depend on Zee for the snacks, he'll be bringing you M&Ms instead of popcorn, and then he'll eat them all. And judging by some previous posts in another thread, he gets snarky about his perceived share of the beer.....


 So true! Well said! Watch that guy. ;D


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## joe d (Dec 30, 2009)

Here I am again....

Dean: it was really the "contraption" look of this thing that appealed to me... all kinds of stuff going on at once, and most of it out in the air where you can see it. Contraption isn't a dirty word to me, I've been building them for years....
Vernon: Thanks for the compliment, and no need for the warning regarding that Zee guy, I think we've all got him figured by now ;D(I've hidden the M&Ms)

on to work: I was going to start the rocker arms, but realized I had used up the stock for them in an unrelated job a while back...so instead I've done the front guard (I presume it's purpose on the original engines was to keep the tourists from being smacked in the head by the end of the piston rod as it reciprocates out the end of the cylinder)

cut some pieces of stock, trued one up in the 4-jaw, gently turned a little segment true and mounted the steady rest, and got busy boring it out





Made up a mandrel for turning the outside (which will also be used for the next part, so worth the little time spent to make it)





here it is after turning is done. The drill chuck is holding a temporary centre that runs in the socket of the screw in the mandrel. This gives me a little room to manoeuvre with the saddle, as the tail stock ram is pretty short. 





The designer suggests cutting the majority of the waste stock out on the band saw. I would, except I don't have a metal cutting band saw. So, several cuts vertically, and several more horizontally, and Robert's yer mum's brother...





In the previous photo and this one, you'll note that I've used the cylinder assembly as the work holder for the part, bolted it to a 1-2-3 block and had all sorts of clamping possibilities.. here I'm cleaning up the saw cuts with a fly cutter





a little polishing here and there, and here it is





That's all for now, Joe


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## cfellows (Dec 30, 2009)

Nice work, Joe. You got that little Taig pretty well tricked out, huh. I keep thinking I really need one of those!

Chuck


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 30, 2009)

Looking good Joe.
Doing those curves with the short cuts and flycutter was a learning for me. Thanks.

Beware the messengers Joe. Beware. ;D


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## Deanofid (Dec 30, 2009)

Now, that's a nicely done job there, Joe. Looks like you thought it out well before you started slingin' metal.

I like the steady rest you made. Looks excellent! I have the stock Taig item, which works fine, but won't take the size piece in your pictures. 
Good to see another guy making the Taig really work. I often think that the guy who makes these machines probably didn't expect them to be used for 3"-4" diameter material, then think, "well, maybe he did".

Keep up the fine work. Pleasure watching you go at it.

Dean


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## joe d (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi guys

Thanks for the kind words

Chuck: I would recommend a Taig, it's done everything I've wanted it to (within the limitations of it's size), I suspect that a Sherline would be as useful in this end of the lathe sizes... and I have the Taig mill as well, so tooling is interchangeable which is a good thing! I've made a few extras for it over the last couple of years which have really expanded what I can do with it.

Zee: Isn't it usually the MESSENGER who needs to be worried?

Dean: This steady is directly the result of realizing that you can't put 3" stock in a steady with 1" capacity... just when I was faced with turning something too big for the stock one, John Stevenson posted a picture on the HSM forum of a huge one he had made for some giant beastie of a lathe he has: so I immediately swiped the basic idea and re-worked it to fit my machine. Thanks, John! The long-term goal is still to fit up some kind of lead screw so I can do threading, I'll get there eventually. There are rumours of Taig making one available, but that almost feels like cheating :big:

The next part is the connector between the two cylinder assemblies, it's pretty much the same deal machining wise as the last part, so I'll limit myself to posting a photo of it when it's done.

Cheers, Joe


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## Twmaster (Dec 31, 2009)

Joe, Taig does have a power feed. However it does not have much (maybe no) option other than the default for thread pitch.

http://www.taigmachines.com/Power_Feed.php


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## joe d (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks for that, Mike. Been a while since I've browsed their site. Does look like it's pretty limited.

Cheers, Joe


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## gmac (Dec 31, 2009)

Joe;
Cheers from the west coast! I suspect you've run across J.R. Bentley's site, but in case not:

http://lathes.jrbentley.com/taig.html

Love what he's done to his Taig. His version of the leadscrew is here;

http://lathes.jrbentley.com/leadscrew.html

He's the first to offer that one would be crazy to copy his dog coupling but the leadscrew is neat all the same. I haven't run across anything in mods that would allow for thread cutting - nothing I'd want to build anyway.

Great work on documenting your builds and thank you for posting. Sorry for the Taig hijack but I love mine too.....good to see it generating complex models.

Garry


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## kvom (Dec 31, 2009)

This is reallyu coming together. Lots of nice technique!  :bow:


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## Deanofid (Jan 1, 2010)

Joe, look up Tony Jeffree on google. He has a Taig set up for cutting threads in the manner of a regular screw cutting lathe. Tumbler, banjo, and all that.

I made a lead screw setup for mine, and made a few false starts at change gear design, but still am not there yet. It's one of those things that keeps getting put off to do other fun stuff. I have the full set of change gears cut and ready, but just haven't thought of a way I like to implement them with my lead screw. It'll get done, someday.

I think I'll copy your copy of John's steady, if you don't mind. I need to make one for the little Atlas, too, so might as well make two of them while/when I get in the mood!

Happy New Year to you. Looking forward to your next post!

Dean


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## joe d (Jan 1, 2010)

Garry: Right back at you from the East! Thanks for the kind comments and the link, I had seen his site before but neglected to book-mark it.

Kvom: Coming from you, I really appreciate that. I've been watching your Halo build... need I say more?

Dean: I've got Jeffree's book... that's what had given me the bug for a leadscrew in the first place! It's still a ways off, but now that I've got a dividing head, I can do gears...

Here's a couple of "as built" pics of the steady, I very quickly abandoned the overly complex roller assemblies for the more usual bearings, other than that I've had no trouble with it, does what it is supposed to do.

A Happy New Year to all!










Cheers, Joe


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## gmac (Jan 1, 2010)

Joe;

What diameter did you settle on for the steady rest ring?

You've done it now; I was on the Home Shop Machinist website looking for the Snow plans! Unfortunately they don't list the Part One back issue as available - I'll have to call them. Has anyone seen plans published elsewhere?

Happy New Year!

Garry


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## Deanofid (Jan 1, 2010)

Thank you for the steady rest pics, Joe.


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## joe d (Jan 1, 2010)

Dean: You're welcome!

Garry: The steady ring is 3.5" OD based on the scientific calculation of that's the dia of the scrap pipe that I had a piece of in my junk box... in this case, it was apparently some gas pipe, it was miserable to cut a chunk off with the Mk 1 hand-operated hacksaw. You could go up to 4" OD with a little room left for fastening over the bed of the lathe. Whatever floats the boat!

Joe


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## squarej (Jan 1, 2010)

I just received my 4 issues with the plans so they had the complete set as of 2 weeks ago. Let me know if they dont have any more available.

Jason


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## joe d (Jan 2, 2010)

Hi all

Next bit done already (I love statutory holidays... )
This is the piece that joins the two cylinder assemblies together. The turning was all done with the same set-ups as the front guard,once that was done bolted the whole thing together and then bolted it down on the mill to cut the openings in the sides






and this is what it looks like in place





Didn't have a really long M&M, so I put in a ruler for scale (sorry, Zee)

Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Jan 2, 2010)

It's looking sooo good, Joe. What a fabulous model.
It's getting big, too. (And thanks for the inches!)

Dean


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## ksouers (Jan 2, 2010)

That's some great work, Joe.
It's great to see work of this size being done on a Taig.


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 2, 2010)

Very nice Joe.
I had to take another tour through the thread.


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## joe d (Jan 2, 2010)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Very nice Joe.
> I had to take another tour through the thread.



Zee: Thanks, but didn't Mom tell you to get busy?

Ksouers & Dean, thanks for looking in, no problem about the inches, I'm an unrepentant Imperial measuring kind of guy.

Joe


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 2, 2010)

Rof} Rof}
That was good.
Leaves the question as to who 'Mom' is.


----------



## Deanofid (Jan 2, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> Ksouers & Dean, thanks for looking in, no problem about the inches, I'm an unrepentant Imperial measuring kind of guy.
> Joe



And why _should_ you be "repentant", hmm?  Carry on, northern neighbor!

Dean


----------



## gbritnell (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi Joe, boy that thing is really starting to look neat. I saw one at NAMES last year and it makes an impressive engine.
gbritnell


----------



## joe d (Jan 4, 2010)

Hi again

Northern neighbour here, carrying on as ordered.... (incidentally Zee, I'm not sure that I want to know if that was a philosophical question or what... )

George; thanks for that.

Got the crosshead done, the last of the big turning operations. Still the same set-ups as the previous two bits, except that it's finished with a taper. 

Turned and bored the flange, turned it around in the chuck and turned the major dia of the taper for it's length and the minor dia for the rest. Bored that end out to near final size at the same time I had just removed the steady when I took this photo. 





set up the compound and turned the taper. If you look closely, you will see a 5 gal pail of swarf in the background... filled that twice doing these three parts!





Then turned it around again in the chuck, cut the internal taper, set it up in the mill (same as before) to cut the side cut-outs, 
and here it is!





Things will slow down back to normal speed now, no more 4 day week-ends for quite a while, dang it.

Joe


----------



## joe d (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi all...


Moved forward with the crankshaft bearings. 

Chopped up the raw stock in the mill





after milling 5 sides for squareness, bored the through hole and started shaping. I don't have any ball-end mills or corner rounding ones, so dug out the woodworking carbide router bits, worked just fine





drilled the mounting holes, then cut one end off to be the second bearing, cleaned everything up, turned some bronze bushings and here we are





Finally got the stock for the rocker arms, so will get stuck into those next. Fairly complex little bits, so it will take a while I suspect. 

Cheers, Joe


----------



## gmac (Jan 11, 2010)

Joe;
With the Taig's what depth of cuts and feed rates have you found best for the carbide router bits and the Mastercraft saw when working with aluminum or brass? Fairly light cuts I assume but how light?
What tooth count was the Mastercraft saw?
Is there an upper limit to the radius on the router bits that you've found - too much cutting edge / not enough power? I.E - how large a router bit have you been able to use?

Cheers
Garry


----------



## Deanofid (Jan 11, 2010)

Doggonnit, I missed your Jan 4th post, somehow. The engine assembly is so impressive, Joe. I love this thing!

Those bearing blocks are really nice. A very pleasing contour to them. The router bit worked well, and you did a good job. 
Have to look into those router bits.

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi Garry

The saw blade is 85mm dia 24 teeth, they stock it as a replacement blade for their laminate trimmer. I run it at around 2k rpm, mounted on a standard Taig arbour I have just under 1.2" of blade before fouling on the arbour. It pretty much lets me know when it's not happy, then I just slow down my feed rate a little. As I don't have power feed, it's hard to quantify: I just crank a little slower. A frequent squirt with WD40 makes it better through aluminium, although it's hard on my shirts.... the biggest issue to date is looking out for the off-cut going flying when you've cut through.

With the core-box router bit (Ball end to the machinist) and the round-over, I ran at around 3k rpm, was taking 20 thou cuts with no trouble conventional milling, this was leaving some chatter marks that came out by just going back (climb milling) with no additional depth put on for the final pass. The 3/8" round-over is the largest I've tried so far, this particular one is over 1" in dia so it's a fair weight of metal behind the cutting edge.  

I'll have to go through the collection of bits in ever increasing size one day just for the heck of it to determine what is the max size I can realistically use. I have quite a few bits in 1/4" shank which snug up nicely in the collet on the mill.

Cheers, Joe

PS Dean: You popped up there while I was typing: thanks.


----------



## gmac (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks Joe.

I notice you're a fellow night owl!!!

I also notice earlier in the post you mention the tailstock reach issue on the Taig lathe - try these; (although I suspect you know, it's just on the too do list!)

http://www.cartertools.com/dead center.html

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/deadcenter/deadcenter.html

Best regards
Garry (off to buy more tooling....)


----------



## joe d (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks, Garry

You're right, I am usually up fairly late. 

Those mods for the lathe just keep on piling up :big:

I need to build the ball turning attachment as well so I can do those nice locking screws too, get rid of all those cap screws, convert the little brass handles on the various feeds to spinning ones, add a lead screw... this thing is going to keep me busy for a long time!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## joe d (Jan 17, 2010)

Well, finally got started on the rocker arms. Happily, there are two holes called out in the same plane, so I could use them for locating virtually everything. Did all the lay-out, drilled the holes, cut out the blanks, and went to work on a sacrificial plate on the mill with a series of tapped holes to hold the parts in the various orientations required. 





you can see the marks left from milling the long sides, and using a .5" end mill for the inside radius. A lot of repetitive motion, and here the are all done with the fixture for now.





Couldn't think of any really good way to hold the parts for milling the sides down to dimension, so did them pretty much hanging out in the air, light cuts and easy feed, and happily, no drama.





and here's where I am so far.





Still got some rounding over to do, cut a slot for the cam follower, drill and tap a hole for the screw that actually moves the valve, and another visit to the fixture for milling some decorative reliefs on the sides.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## squarej (Jan 18, 2010)

Looking nice Joe!

Jason


----------



## joe d (Jan 22, 2010)

Thanks, Jason.

nibbled away at the bits through the week, and have got them done.

Set up the parts again on the mill to do the decorative relief on the sides, luckily, I had a washer that shimmed up the part to the right height without having to do anything else






Then into the vice to drill and tap the hole for the adjusting screw, and milling the slot for the cam roller





Turned, drilled, and parted off the rollers, and parted off some drill rod for the pins, and here's all the parts





Stick'em together:





And here they are where they belong





Starting to look like an engine!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## ksouers (Jan 23, 2010)

Joe,
It's coming right along, it's really looking great.
This looks like it's a fairly large engine. What are the dimensions?


----------



## joe d (Jan 23, 2010)

Thanks, Kevin.

As it stands, its 4'' to the top of the cylinders, the assembly is a bit over 16" long. By the time I add all the other bits, the base will measure 6.25" x 27.5". I need a bigger shelf 

Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jan 23, 2010)

Nice job on those rockers, Joe! They look great. 
Don't take this wrong.. When I first saw the new assembly pic, I thought, "Borg".
It's really an exceptional contraption, (and you know I _still_ mean that in the best way).

Just gets better all the time.

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jan 23, 2010)

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> When I first saw the new assembly pic, I thought, "Borg".
> Dean



In a deep Sci-fi voice, with a flashing LED eyeball, I say: Thanks, Earthling. You have been assimilated.

Joe


----------



## b.lindsey (Jan 23, 2010)

Great progress Joe...it really is looking like an engine now and definitely deserves a larger bookshelf...maybe even a display cabinet of its own!!! Looking forward to your continued posts as this comes together....as the Borg would say, "Resistance is FUTILE!!"

Bill


----------



## gbritnell (Jan 23, 2010)

I think this engine is one of the neatest miniatures out there. The complexity of the linkages makes it a mechanical joy to look at. The work that you're doing is great.
gbritnell


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 24, 2010)

wlindiii  said:
			
		

> .maybe even a display cabinet of its own!!!



Definitely. Looks great.


----------



## joe d (Jan 24, 2010)

Bill, George, and Zee:

Thanks, guys. Feedback is good. Positive feedback is great!

Joe


----------



## joe d (Jan 24, 2010)

Some less complex parts for a change....

made up the parts for the bearing block base. Cleaned up in the mill, hit all six sides with a flycutter, then drilled every thing, counterbored where required, chamfered wheere required, and the did all the tapping





back in the mill to cut some of the waste stock out, once these horizontal cuts were made, "joined the dots" with a wood-worker's coping saw. Got lucky again, the blade broke on the last cut, not the first! Then cleaned up to finish dimension in the mill.





after a bunch of sanding, here it is mocked-up with the flywheel.
(only got as far as 600 grit before the fingers surrendered, so still got a little more to do)





Cheers, Joe


----------



## joe d (Jan 27, 2010)

Moving on, got to the distributor bracket & driver.

Machining the bracket was essentially the same thing as the rocker arm brackets, merely a little bit bigger. Turned a couple of bronze bushings to fit





Then turned the distributor driver, and used a filing guide to file the flats that trigger the points. (Then I cut it off the parent stock with a hacksaw, and faced & drilled the other end)





Here's the various bit for this assembly:





A peek inside the distributor, the points work!





And here it is, with a spare drill bit representing the camshaft





Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jan 28, 2010)

Looks nice all set in place on the bearing block, Joe. 
Where did you get that cute distributor?

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jan 28, 2010)

Hi Dean

Got it from Mike Neal at MJN. I'm not sure if he's still in business, I've read some horror stories regarding trying to get ahold of him lately. If so, too bad, it's a nice piece of kit.

Joe


----------



## kustomkb (Jan 28, 2010)

Very nice work Joe!!

It's looking great!


----------



## joe d (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks, Kevin, all I've got to do now is get you to build a motor-bike frame for it!

Started work on the webs for the crankshaft, some more of the mystery metal that gave me a hard time for the collet for the flywheel. After wearing the edge off virtually every HSS bit I own, trying every combo of feeds & speeds that I could, I surrendered, reground a bunch of bits, tossed the offending bits of metal in the re-cycle, and moved on to the conrod instead (and have since got some perfectly respectable 12L14 for the crankshaft, so will get back to it next)

The plans call for a built-up conrod with some cast iron bits for the ends... picked up a nice chunk of the stuff a long time ago, and had never had call for it before, should have tried it sooner: man o man it sure cuts nice! (ignoring the pervasive black dust ;D)

My little piece of stock: still cutting things with the Mk1 hand driven hacksaw...





The roughed out parts





Setup for rounding over the small-end on the rotary table





Setup in the 4-jaw for drilling and reaming the big end





built a fixture for soldering, fluxed all the joints, put on some silver solder pre-forms, stuck it on the fixture and hit the heat





back in the lathe to finish turning, 





and here it is.





now, back to the crankshaft....

Cheers, Joe


----------



## ksouers (Feb 3, 2010)

Nice looking con rod, Joe. It almost has a Victorian look to it.
Very cool.


----------



## doc1955 (Feb 3, 2010)

Very nice!


----------



## Deanofid (Feb 3, 2010)

Good looking con rod, Joe. It has a nice shape.

I still use a MkI saw for my cutting chores, too.  My hack saw looks _just_ like yours. 
Same mill, same lathe, same hack saw.. I have to go check to see if you're in my shop!

Dean


----------



## joe d (Feb 4, 2010)

Ksouers, Doc, & Dean: thanks, guys. Dean: Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, no? So: who's flattered, me or you? :big: :big: (And, if it's you in MY shop, want to give it a little tidy-up while you're there?)

That hacksaw, and the vise it's next to were in my Dad's workshop as far back as I can remember. I've got one that's 30 years younger, and it doesn't cut worth crap. The Vise lived outside for one entire winter once, that's when the silver primer went on top of the original blue that's now starting to show through. They came out of some hardware store up Brian's way in Barrie Ontario. Good tools up that way!

Joe


----------



## squarej (Feb 4, 2010)

Wow Joe, you are making more progress than I. Fine work Sir.

Jason


----------



## cobra428 (Feb 4, 2010)

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Looks nice all set in place on the bearing block, Joe.
> Where did you get that cute distributor?
> 
> Dean



"Hi Dean

Got it from Mike Neal at MJN. I'm not sure if he's still in business, I've read some horror stories regarding trying to get ahold of him lately. If so, too bad, it's a nice piece of kit.

Joe"

I tried to get a coil from MJN last year and he sent my check back (it didn't bounce, he just didn't want to be bothered)

CNC Machine

http://www.cncengines.com/index.html

Roy said he is going to start carring them

Tony


----------



## joe d (Feb 9, 2010)

Jason: Thanks. Tony: Thanks for the info.

went to work on the crankshaft...cut a couple of lengths of drill rod, and turned & faced & bored a couple of disks of 12L14 for the webs, and then bolted the webs on a sacrificial plate on the mill to cut out the unwanted bits






Cleaned all the bits, assembled them, and silver-soldered them together (and didn't take a picture of that) and the back to the lathe to true it up





Once it was running true, hacksawed out the bit of the crankshaft between the webs, and cleaned up the ends in the mill





Here's the bits:





And mocked up with the drill bit pretending to be a camshaft





Next up will be the brackets for the camshaft, but that will delayed a bit as I'm out of town all next week, and then will have a ridiculous amount of reading to do to catch up on all the posts.....

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Feb 10, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> ... and then will have a ridiculous amount of reading to do to catch up on all the posts.....
> 
> Cheers, Joe



Yeah. It's almost like ya can't do without it, isn't it?

That crank looks great, Joe. Your assembly pictures really show off all your good work!

Dean


----------



## gbritnell (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Joe, excellent documentation and very nice pictures, oh and the work is great too. What Tony said about the distributor caps is correct. Originally they came from Bruce Satra. I had purchased a couple of different configurations years ago. Nice pieces.
George


----------



## putputman (Feb 10, 2010)

Joe, I have been following your post since the beginning and just today it dawned on me what you are building. :noidea: oh:

I saw this marvelous machine at the Western Minnesota Steam Threshers Reunion in Rollag, MN. several years ago. You have tackled one of the most ambitious projects I've seen in a long time.

I have attached a copy of a brochure handed out at the show. It gives a some specs and a little history of how they got the engine.

Really looking forward to seeing yours run. 

View attachment Snow Engine - Rollag.pdf


----------



## joe d (Feb 10, 2010)

Dean, George, and Arv

Thanks for the kind comments. George: my distributor is marked Satra, so I guess Mike Neal was getting them from him?

Arv: Thanks very much for the pamphlet... I envy your having seen the original!

Cheers. Joe


----------



## joe d (Mar 5, 2010)

Well, after a week off on vacation with the Mrs, and a week-end out of town at a friend's farm, I've finally gotten back to work in the shop... 

Got the base plate flycut at a local shop, as it is way bigger than the work envelope of my Taig mill, and didn't want to poke extraneous holes in it for hold-downs in order to do it in stages...





Then milled up the brackets for the camshaft, used the same set-ups again as I had used for the rocker arm brackets, here they are with their bushings and bushing supports, gets assembled with some epoxy





Here they are after glue-up, rounding over, and sanding as far as 600 grit, with a chunk of drill rod for the camshaft,





what it looks like at the crankshaft end of things 





Over all, really starting to look like an engine now!






A few more things to make yet, and then a short pause to make my copy of George Britnell's tubing bender for the plumbing.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Mar 5, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> Over all, really starting to look like an engine now!



Indeed! Looking good.
Nice shot of the crankshaft end of things...I don't think I'd had the opportunity to see that before.


----------



## deere_x475guy (Mar 5, 2010)

Joe, I really enjoy watching your build on this ...nice job!


----------



## Deanofid (Mar 5, 2010)

So glad you're back at this, Joe. It's a truly interesting build, and it seems to be getting "close"!
Looks terrific put together.

Dean


----------



## potman (Mar 6, 2010)

This is a great one Joe. 

I've seen the vid's of the prototype in Rolleg 
but it's going to be a lot of fun to see yours running. 

Any guesses on how many RPM she'll turn?

earl...


----------



## SBWHART (Mar 6, 2010)

Coming along real nice Joe

Have fun

Stew


----------



## ozzie46 (Mar 6, 2010)

Very, very nice Joe. Keep up the good work.


 Ron


----------



## ariz (Mar 6, 2010)

Joe I had never seen your build...
there are so many builds here that sometime I choose to watch one simply by its name: unfortunately 'snow tandem' didn't catch my attention

but now that I have seen it, I admit that I was losing a very nice and interesting engine

you are doing a great job :bow:


----------



## joe d (Mar 7, 2010)

Zee, deere x475guy, Dean:Thanks for looking in.  Earl: Haven't any idea how one would calculate the "expected" (or should that be "hoped for?") rpm... I'm certain there is some clever formula for that, but I will find out the hard way once it running (and I borrow a tach...) Stew & Ron, Thanks... Ariz: Thanks, come on back some time!

Got a little more done this week-end:

Turned and milled some steel for the crosshead





Cut and faced some drill rod for the piston rods, milled faint reliefs on them for setscrews, turned, drilled and tapped a connector





Stuck 'em together to see what it looks like





And here's what the crosshead look like where it belongs:





Still got the cams to do, and then I can decide whether I'm making tools for tubing bending, or making tools for line-boring the cylinders....

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Speedy (Mar 7, 2010)

I applaud you sir :bow:
love the build and your doing great on the smaller machines.


----------



## gbritnell (Mar 7, 2010)

Your workmanship is first rate. This engine is one of the most unique models out there. I have only seen a couple and they always get my attention.
gbritnell


----------



## joe d (Mar 7, 2010)

Speedy: Thanks.  You know the limitations of these sized machines yourself.

George: I'll have to get a bigger hat... coming from you I really appreciate that!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Rustkolector (Mar 8, 2010)

Joe, 
How much do you have to bore out of the cylinders yet?

Jeff


----------



## joe d (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi Jeff

I left them at .995 when I roughed them out, if I was feeling lazy I could just hone them now, the bore is good, and adjust the piston to fit. On the other hand, I feel like I should make the effort to stick to the print....

Joe


----------



## Rustkolector (Mar 9, 2010)

Joe,
I was hoping you could just pin hone out the remainder, but .065" is a lot. That's too bad you have to go through the line boring setup to finish boring, but I guess you don't have much choice since you have all the bolt holes drilled and tapped. Maintaining concentricity and squareness of the cylinder components is important on the Snow, as you no doubt know.

Jeff


----------



## joe d (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi Jeff

yeah, don't really want to go that far undersize. I had also left the hole in the head undersized, and the hole in the piston rod bushing undersized, figured that once I've finished the cylinder bore, without disturbing the workpiece I would mount the heads, finish that bore, install the bushing, finish that bore, and ream them, giving me my best shot at concentricity. May regret it before I'm done, we'll see!

Joe


----------



## Rustkolector (Mar 10, 2010)

Hi Joe,
Sounds like a good plan. Your progress is impressive. Great job!

Jeff


----------



## metalmad (Mar 10, 2010)

Hi Joe
fantastic job
looking forward to seeing it run
cheers Pete


----------



## joe d (Mar 10, 2010)

Jeff and Pete

Thanks to both of you, much appreciated!

Joe


----------



## joe d (Mar 15, 2010)

Well, I'm at one of those points where I need to make tooling to continue with the build. In order to make the tubing bends for intake, exhaust, and coolant, I need a tubing bender...so I need a ball & radius turner to make the tool bits to cut the forming wheels for the bender... so I've built one, posted it over in the "tools" section. 

One short and sweet bit of work to enable line-boring the cylinders: needed a centre for the headstock so I can drive the boring bar between centres (sticking the driven end in the 4-jaw uses up too much real estate)

Trued up a chunk of drill rod in the chuck, faced it off, drilled and tapped 1/4-20, as that is the size of the all-thread that I had in stock, tapered it to match the spindle taper, turned a little aluminum bushing for the other end of the spindle to keep the all-thread draw bar centred, installed it and cut the 60 degree point on it:






Here's all the bits:





and here it is ready for action:





Just got to make up a driving dog and Robert's my Mum's brother.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Mar 15, 2010)

Nice dead center, Joe!

Dean


----------



## joe d (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks, Dean.

The fact that it is essentially identical to the one on your projects page is no doubt mere co-incidence..... :hDe: 

Keep on posting stuff there, I need more projects. No. Really. I need more projects. 

Thanks, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Mar 15, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> Thanks, Dean.
> The fact that it is essentially identical to the one on your projects page is no doubt mere co-incidence.....
> Thanks, Joe



Heck, that's why they're there, Joe. 



			
				joe d  said:
			
		

> I need more projects. No. Really. I need more projects.



Can I interest you in a mill vise...?

No. Really. You'd like it.

Dean


----------



## joe d (Mar 30, 2010)

Well, finished up various tooling side-tracks, and got back to the main event. 

Spent a bit of time to make up a boring bar to line-bore the cylinders:





and a driving dog





and damned near ruined a cylinder assembly as the part shifted during boring... came out with a bore slanting off to the side...I'd bolted a bit of angle to the cross slide, and bolted the cylinder to that, and it was not up to the job.

soooooo after a longish pause for recriminations and practising bad words, went back to the 4 jaw, indicated the thing to pretty much zero runout and finished the job that way. Fixing the boo-boo has left me with a bore that is .0025 bigger than the plans call out, I'll adjust the piston size to fit. 

Once the bore was done, bolted on the head without moving the cylinder and bored the head for the piston rod bushing





Installed the bushing, and the head cover and reamed them to final dimension





And here's the stack-up:





This one got me worried for a little while!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Mar 30, 2010)

Whew! Good save on that cylinder, Joe. Nice to see a new post.

Dean


----------



## joe d (Apr 6, 2010)

Moving along... time for pistons & rings

Chucked up a piece of cast iron, turned it to the required diameter, bored to the required ID, and here I'm about to start parting them off





and here's a pile of rings (I need 4, so I should be good even after breaking some in the installation)





The pistons are held on their rods with two set screws at 90* so I turned them oversized, drilled and tapped for the set screws, and then mounted them on the piston rods to act as an arbor to turn to final size and cut the grooves for the rings





And here you need your x-ray vision to see the all where they belong inside the cylinder. (It's all in there. Trust me.)





Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Apr 6, 2010)

I trust you!
Nice work, Joe. What method did you use to break your rings?

Dean


----------



## joe d (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi Dean

Glad to know that somebody out there trusts me... (cue the sappy music...) Luckily, Sally Fields I'm not!

Broke the rings with some diagonal cutting pliers. The instructions I was following said to use a set of flat-end nippers... after 45 minutes of not finding the one pair I own :wall:, went with plan B! It did raise a slight burr, quickly dealt with.

Query: any advice regarding the heat treating? One plan calls for a fixture and soaking at 450* f for a while, Bob Shores' theory is to just heat the side opposite the break to red and you're done. The only oven available to me is the Mrs' kitchen appliance, so this would require some careful timing ;D

Cheers, Joe


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Apr 6, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> any advice regarding the heat treating? One plan calls for a fixture and soaking at 450* f for a while, Bob Shores' theory is to just heat the side opposite the break to red and you're done. The only oven available to me is the Mrs' kitchen appliance, so this would require some careful timing



I believe it's 475 - 525 Celcius. I cook my rings at 950F for 1 hour and they seem to take a set very well. I did the Bob Shores method for the Peewee and I am not happy with them at all.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Apr 6, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> and here's a pile of rings (I need 4, so I should be good even after breaking some in the installation)



They dont break when you put them on, It's when you try to get them back off!


----------



## joe d (Apr 6, 2010)

Steve:

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to do some shopping around to find a little oven for the shop, no way the kitchen appliance is hitting 400 - 500 Celsius. Haven't tried Shores' method either, might do a couple just for giggles, without firsthand knowledge, it would seem to me that there would be some warping by just heating one spot?

As to breaking them, if there is a way to bust them putting them on, I'll find it! 

Thanks again, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Apr 6, 2010)

I've only done the ring heating process using a torch, but unlike the Shores method, you heat the whole ring. Simple, but it works well, for the few I've made.

Put a square rod in the split of the ring. The rod should be between 1/8 to 3/16" thick, and a few inches long. Position the ring so there is a small space between the edges of the split and one edge of the rod, and clamp it together with a piece of sheet steel or flat bar behind it. There needs to be a small space between the ring and the steel, evenly spaced all the way around. Point the propane torch flame right in the center of the circle of the ring, and watch it until the ring turns red all around. Turn off the torch and let it cool.

I've never had any problems with rings doing it this way. It's something I read in one of the machining magazines years ago, and is the only way I've ever tried. 

Dean


----------



## joe d (Apr 7, 2010)

Dean

This is sounding much more affordable than a heat treating oven...any chance you could whip up a crap-o-cad as I'm not clear on what you are describing... scratch.gif 

Thanks, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Apr 7, 2010)

See if this makes sense, Joe. I never went to school for this stuff, so..


----------



## joe d (Apr 7, 2010)

Dean

Alles klar! Thanks for that, your CoC is neater than mine usually turn out. It was the placement of the steel plate that had me confused (not that that is necessarily difficult to do).

I'll let you know how I get on with it.

Joe


----------



## Rustkolector (Apr 7, 2010)

Joe,
Many Snow builders had trouble with the .060" radial thickness on the rings shown in the plans. The rings were too stiff and would often break in installation. If you use the ring dimensional data created by the Trimble method, you can't go wrong. That data recommends a radial thickness of about .042" -.044". This produces a ring that can be installed and removed many times without fear of breakage. I use a modified Trimble ring fixture for heat treating rings and have always had good results. It uses a round pin for a ring separator, and according to Trimble produces a more round finished ring than using a flat separator. My modification eliminates the fixture cover. Instead, I spread and stack all the rings on the fixture, clamp the rings with the fixture top, then coat the rings with thick (pasty) white silver brazing flux for anti scale protection. I put the ring fixture on a fire brick with another fire brick standing upright immediatelly behind the fixture. I slowly heat to dull red using two hand held propane torches. I keep both torches moving all the time. At the dull red temp of about 1050F, the flux becomes your temperature indicator and turns clear. Hold for a 3-5 minutes. Cover with suitable insulation and let cool slowly. When cool, brush under hot water to remove flux. Rings will be a light gray color, but should have no scale or pitting. This method works very well for me and produces excellent, round, flat piston rings. 

Jeff


----------



## joe d (Apr 28, 2010)

Well, been a while... caught one of the many bugs going around, and have been bloody miserable for most of the last couple of weeks. Actually stayed home from work one day (I HATE wasting a day off work being ill.) Anyhow, went in the shop every day, and most days came right back out again, realizing that running machinery was not going to end well. Slowly starting to get back to normal, so have slowly started to make some progress

Got the honking big chunk of flat ali squared up and drilled here and there for the base plate






Then started on the coolant return manifold, turned the "funnels" that go on the top of the vertical pipes





soft soldered in place





and then soft soldered them on to a longish bit of pipe that runs back to the coolant tank that isn't built yet





Lots to do still, but it's getting there!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Apr 28, 2010)

Sure is looking good, Joe. Glad you got some shop time.
The assembly shot shows the valve gear and other parts to the right of the engine.. you sure have made a lot of parts for this! Great stuff!

Dean


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Apr 28, 2010)

Glad you're coming back up to speed.
Looks great!


----------



## 4156df (Apr 28, 2010)

Joe,
It's definitely looking like an engine, and a fine one at that. Glad you're back at it.
Dennis


----------



## ksouers (Apr 28, 2010)

Looks really nice put together, Joe.

What are the funnels for?


----------



## joe d (Apr 28, 2010)

Thanks, guys.

Dean: once it's done, I'm going to figure out just how many pieces there are!

Kevin: the coolant is pumped into the cylinder assemblies from the bottom, and exits from the top of the assemblies (you can see the "exit" holes on the top of the assemblies, just to the inside of the valve cages, with a pair of 2-56 tapped holes to hold flanges) there will be flanged pipes with two bends that will end just above the funnels so that the coolant will (hopefully) squirt right down into them! I presume that on the original, this was to permit a degree of cooling of the now hot fluid. You'll see 'em pretty soon...

Jeff: apologies for not acknowledging your reply. Having already turned the rings to plan dimensions, I've stuck with them that way for now. If future breakages require new ones, I'll turn some new pistons and go with your advice!

Cheers all, Joe


----------



## Maryak (Apr 30, 2010)

Joe,

I'm late as usual but beautiful work, will be a real stunner when it's finished. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## joe d (Apr 30, 2010)

Cheers, Bob. Thanks for the moral support!

Joe


----------



## joe d (Jun 5, 2010)

Wow...

over a month since there's been anything of note to add here...this is not good. Been side-tracked with some major cleaning up, first the furnace room, this led to cleaning my office/library, which somehow ended up with cleaning the shop. Note to anyone considering cleaning their shop: DON'T! It's really sad to see all that extra floor-space with no machines on it...

Had a few little jobs to do with the woodworking equipment, so went ahead and did the wooden base for the engine while set up for the brown stuff

Here's a nice bit of cherry after getting some edge treatment on the router table (a keen observer will have noted that this table, with a sacrificial melamine top, is usually home to my Taig lathe)





Some inletting on the underside for a TIM6 ignition module, some wiring, and a battery pack stuck in where it's meant to go to check for fit





And here it is with the engine parts sitting on it





Now just have to get some sort of finish on it, probably polyurethane as I have lots of it on hand, and it's fairly durable.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## hopeless (Jun 6, 2010)

tel  said:
			
		

> trashX? Nah we export that to Canada and Pommyland and drink Toohey's Old Black 'ere.



And a nice drop it is too, But I do prefer the coopers version.....its aussie owned still ;D
Pete


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## zeeprogrammer (Jun 6, 2010)

That's a sharp looking display Joe. Very nice.


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## arnoldb (Jun 7, 2010)

Joe, that looks lovely! I like the way you've chosen to hide away the electrics as well :bow:

Regards, Arnold


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## b.lindsey (Jun 7, 2010)

That's a beautiful piece of cherry joe. Not to mention the engine sitting on it  Nice work!!

Bill


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## Deanofid (Jun 7, 2010)

Joe, that electrics pocket is a nice, neat job. I hate to see a good man have to turn to the tree
to get something done, but it sure looks great when he knows what he's doing. It's going to 
make a really nice display! Your beautiful engine looks right at home on it.

Dean


----------



## bearcar1 (Jun 7, 2010)

I dunno Joe, poly'? A better choice would be Linseed or Danish Oil don't you think? It would be a bit more work but in the end that deep hand rubbed finish would compliment that fine engine a treat. Thm:

BC1
Jim


----------



## joe d (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi guys

Pete: you really went way back to find that one... can't hide a beer from an Aussie ;D

Zeep and Arnold and Bill: Thanks

Dean: Been a wood-worker much much longer than I've been a learner machinist, so it's almost cheating :big:

Jim: Just figures that somebody would catch me trying to be lazy...Oil would and will (and now that I've been caught out) be a better finish. Got lots of linseed oil on hand, but the danged stuff takes years to really dry. I've been building a little table out of some more of the same cherry tree, and have been figuring on mixing up a batch of French Polish for it.. might well use some on the engine base too, but will do some research first as to it's sensitivity to oil, coolant, and fuel.

Cheers all, Joe


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## kustomkb (Jun 7, 2010)

Looking good Joe!

can't wait to see her run.


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## Cedge (Jun 7, 2010)

Joe...
Try Tung oil. I've used it for years for refinishing gun stocks and it is a hard, very durable, fast drying finish that also happens to be self leveling.... ie. no brush marks. It's not picky about how it's applied. I've even rubbed it on with my finger and gotten a nice finish. Much more user friendly than linseed oil.

Steve


----------



## joe d (Jun 7, 2010)

Kevin: Thanks. Got any further with the Hog?

Steve: Thanks for the tip, think I'll go with it. I've messed around for years with linseed and shellac, but never yet tried tung oil.

Joe


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## ksouers (Jun 8, 2010)

Joe,
I'll have to second the tung oil. I've used tung and linseed oils on teak for my boat. I much prefer the tung. It dries much quicker than linseed and I think has a slightly deeper finish. After it dries I use a furniture polish that is heavy on beeswax for a little extra UV protection.


----------



## joe d (Jun 11, 2010)

Hi

Having decided to take Steve's and Kevin's advice, here's the base with the first coat of tung oil. Man o man, should have found this stuff a long time ago....thanks for the tip, guys!






This is the other bit of wood-working on the go, I'll finish it with the same stuff. If I ever build a Duclos/Cedge Victorian, this is the table it will sit on!





All out of the same cherry tree, George Washington eat your heart out!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## b.lindsey (Jun 11, 2010)

Beautiful Joe...that cherry tree gave it up for two very fine causes 

Bill


----------



## Cedge (Jun 11, 2010)

Joe....
No need to go to all that trouble.... if you really want a Victorian sitting on that table, just ship it on down here....LOL Beautiful work!! I've not gotten the touch for working with the brown stuff beyond the odd engine base or so.

Glad the tung oil worked out for you. I love the stuff. Very forgiving and the finish is as tough as Rhino hide.

Steve


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## joe d (Jun 17, 2010)

Bill: Thanks! Steve: you'll have to get in line... the Mother in Law was over for supper this evening, and almost left with the table.... both the table and the base for the engine have had numerous coats of oil, and have been declared "done". That so, back (finally) to some engine stuff.

Picked up where I had left off, with plumbing: here are the bits for the exhaust manifold, straightforward turning for the flanges, and used the tubing bender I built a little earlier for the first time for real...





Instead of building some complex jig for soldering, used the engine it's self: first the curved pipes into the flanges





and then the bottom end of the curved pipes into the straight section of the manifold





still got some cleaning up to do, excess flux and a few spots with some wayward solder to remove.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jun 17, 2010)

The exhaust pipes sure came out well, Joe. Very neat and uniform.
Kind of reminds me of headers on a car engine. 

Thanks for the new update. I always like seeing new stuff for this great
looking engine. 

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jul 1, 2010)

Thanks, Dean. Gotta admit that I quite like the "look" too!

Tried out the fit of the exhaust manifold with the coolant return in place, and was not at all pleased, the curved pipes of the manifold were just touching the coolant return pipe.... not visually pleasing at all. so, faffed around for the best part of a week, made new dies for the tubing bender to try to form a tighter curve for the manifold pipe (in several sizes) and used up all the tubing I had on hand with no useful result... so then went with plan B, and put an "s" bend in the coolant inlet and return pipes, and it looks a lot better to me now.
This will change the size of the outlet pipes from the water jacket, no biggie. :idea:

That done, moved on to the fuel intake manifold. First up: cut a little piece off of my secret stash of 1/2" brass..





after a little milling & drilling, cut and bent some tubing, and here are the bits





Again used the engine as the soldering jig





and here's all the plumbing done to date, 





and, couldn't resist sticking it all together to have a look





The fitting in the centre of the intake manifold still needs a bit to hold the carb, I'll make it to fit the carb once I've acquired one...
otherwise in plumbing only got the 4 little bits left to do that return the coolant from the water jacket to the coolant return manifold

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 1, 2010)

Gosh, Joe, that looks very impressive. Almost Duesenberg-like.
It gets more beautiful with every work session.

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks, Dean.

Kevin: (Ksouers) Way back in April you asked this question:



			
				ksouers  said:
			
		

> What are the funnels for?



Well, finally, here's the answer... 
Turned some brass to make flanges





Bent some tubing with the shop-built tubing bender





Here's all the parts together, shaped the flanges by hand with a file, seemed like way too much mucking around to machine it for four pieces whose only critical point is the fit of the tubing 





soldered together, 





And here they are in place. Coolant from the water jacket exits through these assemblies, squirts into the funnels to return to the coolant tank.





Fuel tank or coolant tank next, haven't quite decided...

Cheers, Joe


----------



## kustomkb (Jul 4, 2010)

Man, that's some serious plumbing going on there,

Nice work Joe!

Looks great.


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 4, 2010)

It's quite a water works, Joe. We'll even be able to see the coolant circulating!

Dean


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## SAM in LA (Jul 5, 2010)

Joe,

It looks like you are a great pipe fitter.

How did you expand the ends of the tubing?

Keep up the good work.

Regards,

SAM


----------



## joe d (Jul 5, 2010)

Kevin (KB) and Dean: thanks, guys. Sam: did the flared ends the (to me) easy way, turned some larger stock with an internal and external taper, and soft-soldered them in place. Hmm... flaring tool.... oh no... PROJECTITIS. another one for the list...

Cheers, Joe


----------



## ksouers (Jul 5, 2010)

Joe,
Nice plumbing work. My wife wants a new bathroom, are you for hire?? ;D

Thanks, the funnels work the way I envisioned from your previous description. It should be interesting to see the water dripping into them and the steam rising.


----------



## joe d (Jul 9, 2010)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> Joe,
> Nice plumbing work. My wife wants a new bathroom, are you for hire?? ;D



Kevin: Re-did the bathroom here 7 or 8 years ago... ripped it all out down to the studs, new drywall, plumbing, fixtures etc. I'll be entirely happy if I never have to do this again :big:  Temporarily put the old tub in the garage with the tail pipe over the floor drain, ran some hose from the laundry room so's the missus could have her bath... didn't mention how tempting the automatic door opener was until AFTER the new bathroom was in use : :

now back to an engine...

Got going on the fuel tank assembly. Needed some 1/4" ali angle, only had 1/2" so milled off the extra bit





the base is just a bit of ali with a few holes drilled & tapped, here's where that angle goes, and the start on the cross pieces that will hold up the tank





decided to make some brackets for the u-bolts that will secure the tank. The plans had simply called out bending over a little tab on each side of the cross piece, but that would have been too easy. Set up a piece of ali in the mill, and did everything I could in that set up





then parted them off





a little fussing about with some files, and here we are





Now I need a tank to go on the base, started out by truing up the ends of a bit of tube





and that's where it is at the moment. Not sure how much will get done in the next little while, Number One son is due home on leave from the Navy on Saturday, so shop time will no doubt be curtailed.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## T70MkIII (Jul 9, 2010)

This is one spectacular build Joe - if I can get HSM Vol 25 No 6 (the others are still available as back issues) I'd like to have a go at it. Looking forward to your next progress pictures.


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## b.lindsey (Jul 9, 2010)

It is my understanding that Village Press has a book on the Tandem well along on the way to press. Not sure if it will be hard bound or one of the loose leaf types with the plastic spine, but either way you may want to wait for it to come out as opposed to finding the back issues.

Bill


----------



## T70MkIII (Jul 9, 2010)

Thanks, Bill - I appreciate the heads-up.


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## joe d (Jul 12, 2010)

Managed to get some shop time after all, so got a little further along with the tank..

Turned the end caps





The plans call for one end to made of lucite in order to see the state of the fuel supply. I didn't much care for this idea, so instead I've milled a slot for a rather more discrete fuel gauge





Then started on the bosses for fuel in and fuel out.... they need a radius to match the tank, so set them up on the face plate and not only did two at once, balanced the load on the lathe too!





Once done with the radii, turned them around in the four-jaw, and drilled them through, and added a very slight counterbore, and tapped the filler boss





the fuel out boss was just finished off with a hacksaw and files, but the filler boss got a little turning...made up a quick & dirty mandrel with the matching thread, and cut a taper on it just for the look of it





Here's the state of play tonight: stuck little bits of pipe in the counter-bores in each of the bosses, these will serve to locate the bosses in place on the tank so they won't slide around whilst waiting for the glue to dry, glued a bit of clear Plexiglas in the slot for the fuel gauge, and glued the blind tank end in place.





Still have to drill the holes for the bosses, stick'em in place, and then can locate the other tank end with the slot vertical in relation to the bosses... also have to make the filler cap (again) and (again) as so far there are two failed attempts in the save it for another possible use bin.....

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 12, 2010)

Your fuel tank looks good, Joe. I like what you did for the fuel sight gauge.
What kind of glue do you use to assemble it?

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jul 12, 2010)

Hi Dean

Just using a regular 2-part epoxy. Had some "Quick setting" stuff that I was going to use, but it had already quickly set in the tube...I think Zee sent over some of his "Bumness". 

Joe


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## arnoldb (Jul 12, 2010)

Excellent progress on the plumbing and fuel tank Joe :bow: - keep it coming !

Arnold


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## Deanofid (Jul 12, 2010)

Thanks Joe. I didn't know that stuff was okay to go with fuel. Good to know.

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jul 12, 2010)

hi Dean

I'm rashly taking a little trip down the "Road Of Zee", in that I don't know either if epoxy is good in a fuel-contact environment, I'm "following the instructions". Whatever you do, don't tell Marv : :.....

Joe

PS We'll see how it works out :big:


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## joe d (Jul 13, 2010)

Well, except for the filler cap, fuel tank is finito...

Set up some steel rod in a collet for threading each end 0-80 for u-bolts






glued the bosses in place, the other end of the tank, a bit of cleaning up and assembly, and here we are!





From the other side:






next up: coolant reservoir

Cheers Joe


----------



## T70MkIII (Jul 13, 2010)

Joe, it's really starting to come together now - a work of art.


----------



## joe d (Jul 13, 2010)

Thanks Richard, and a belated thanks to Arnold too, since I neglected to acknowledge your last...

I've been looking at this tank assembly in place and am not altogether happy with the "look" of things, so I'm going to try a wee re-design of the support structure.... piccies WILL follow, stand by to stand by

Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 13, 2010)

The tank looks great, Joe. Will be watching for the new pics of the stand.



			
				joe d  said:
			
		

> fuel tank is finito...



Wow! I didn't know you knew Italian.  Neato!


Dean


----------



## joe d (Jul 14, 2010)

Dean

I lived in Toronto for 5 years as a youngster.... learned a small but useful (if not attempting to converse with an Italian!)amount of Italian whilst cycling by construction sites.. mostly unprintable.

Here's the fuel tank with the MkII stand





from another angle





Like this one better...

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 14, 2010)

> Like this one better...



I do too, Joe. Neatens it up a bit and now it really belongs there.
Very good work.

Dean


----------



## ariz (Jul 14, 2010)

beautiful engine Joe, really better day by day


----------



## Maryak (Jul 14, 2010)

Joe,

Awesome. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## joe d (Jul 19, 2010)

Dean, Ariz, & Bob: Thanks, guys.

Got on with the coolant tank after re-working the fuel tank stand. Started out by truing up some 3" OD ali tube, and then cleaning up the exterior





A straightforward bit of turning and boring for the top





Set up the stock for the base on the rotary table to mill the recess that the tank body sits in





Then used the base-plate as it's own template for locating the mounting holes on the wooden base





Made up the inlet and outlet fittings, a replay of the bits for the fuel tank, so no photo of that, and then stuck it all together with some more two-part epoxy (with my carefully hoarded chunks of cast iron weighing things down while the epoxy sets up)





And here it is where it belongs.





Getting close to the finish line now, only got the coolant pump, cams, carb, and a few oilers left to machine, and then its assembly and start figuring out why it won't run.....

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 20, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> and then its assembly and start figuring out why it won't run.....



Occasionally, I find myself laughing out loud at something on this forum. Thanks for being a 
contributor to that, Joe!  ;D

The tank turned out just great!

Dean


----------



## kustomkb (Jul 21, 2010)

Looking good Joe.

Maybe for the next one you could scale it up a bit;


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jul 21, 2010)

I had no idea there were real engines like that.
Very cool.
Thanks for the pics.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jul 21, 2010)

Any idea what factory the photos were taken in?


----------



## kustomkb (Jul 21, 2010)

Mesta Machine Company, Pittsburgh,

Found it through a link PTsideshow posted;

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9985.0


----------



## joe d (Jul 21, 2010)

Kevin:

I might need something a little bigger than my Taig lathe.....

Cool pics, thanks!

Joe


----------



## ksouers (Jul 21, 2010)

My first thought was "It'd sure have been nice to see a man standing next to it."

Then I saw him, little teeny guy hiding amongst that huge engine


----------



## joe d (Jul 26, 2010)

Hi all

Got started on the coolant pump. The plans called for using a submersible electric pump in the reservoir, didn't much care for that, so after asking a few questions of Rustkollector (Jeff) decided to go with Jerry Howell's magnetic drive pump. Of course, I can't just follow the plans, so there have been a few modifications already... ;D ;D

I didn't have an appropriate piece of round stock, so soldered a temporary spigot on a chunk of my secret stash of 1/2" plate brass, and then turned the spigot so it would run true






Turned it round, reversed it in the chuck and machined off the spigot in the process of hollowing out the piece, then silver brazed it to a piece of flat stock.. (I've been reading a lot of posts about silver soldering lately, so I greatly reduced the amount of silver solder as compared to my previous practice... seem to have gotten it just right. Thanks to all who have been posting tips on this arcane art!)
(and, if you look closely, just behind the firebrick you can see the first one, stuffed it up drilling the bolt circle....)





in the pickle.... looks like I need to top up the supply





Jerry's plans call for a delrin piece threaded into the brass body to hold the impeller in place. I still don't have a thread-cutting lathe, so left the hole in the pump body un-threaded, will also not thread the delrin insert, and will hold it together with this clamping ring





Next up is the impeller, turned the blank with a shoulder on the bottom to facilitate holding it on the rotary table with a strap of spare ali, off-set it to mill the slots, re-centred and drilled the holes for the magnets, after this re-chucked it in the lathe and turned off the shoulder





and here is the delrin piece ready for parting off. First time I've machined this stuff, boy it sure cuts easily with a nice finish. Nice soft non-cut-causing swarf, too 





Made the pulley for the thing, and then added it to the pile of parts that don't fit, so next up will be another one.... and inlet & outlet bits.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 26, 2010)

The pump housing looks neat, Joe. 
So, the holes in the impeller get magnets, and when it's buttoned up inside the housing, and an
external thingy spins it via the magnets? Am I even close?

Dean


----------



## joe d (Jul 26, 2010)

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Am I even close?Dean



Yup. Yer close. Real close. In fact, pretty much right on the mark. :big:

This is one of those "how much of this do I show?" bits, Jerry Howell's plans are still copyright and available for sale....so don't want to go overboard with too much detail, but on the other hand, there are only so many ways to stick an impeller in a housing to move fluids...

Joe.


----------



## Deanofid (Jul 27, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> In fact, pretty much right on the mark. :big:



Wow, how 'bout that. One in a row!

Dean


----------



## hopeless (Jul 27, 2010)

wow they're big. What did they use them for?
cheers 
Pete


----------



## joe d (Aug 1, 2010)

Dean: Better stop now while you're at 100% :big:

Hopeless: The only info I've seen on that has them being used on a pipe-line. Presumably could have been used anywhere one needed low rpm/high torque for long periods?

Got a bit further with the pump:


Turned the driven pulley that in turn moves the impeller. Looks like a real simple part, huh? This danged thing took me three tries: overbored the hole for the bearings in the first one, the tool grabbed the second one out of the 4-jaw and tossed it across the shop leaving un-recoverable dings, the third one came out OK





Then turned the driving pulley, this one worked out first time :





soldered the inlet and outlet to the pump body





made up a mounting bracket, here it is with the rest of the parts





And here they are stuck together.





Still have to test it moving some fluid, and then mount it on the base of the engine.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Deanofid (Aug 2, 2010)

That looks very good, Joe. 
No guesses about anything this time. Don't want to ruin my record!

Dean


----------



## SAM in LA (Aug 2, 2010)

Joe,

Nice looking water pump.

Are you going to perform a pump test and generate the pump curve.

SAM


----------



## joe d (Aug 2, 2010)

Dean: You're still riding at 100% :bow:

Sam: going with the entirely basic empirical "spin it and see if it moves some fluid" type of testing... I've SEEN pump curves on paper, and cheerfully admit that the generation of such an animal is beyond my ken. (And the interpretation thereof as well ??? )

Joe


----------



## Jeff02 (Aug 2, 2010)

Dean, Just to make sure I understand whats going on.
The Delrin is a bearing surface for the pulley which must be made of steel so the magnets in side are attracted to it and turn when the pulley turns. Even close????


----------



## Deanofid (Aug 2, 2010)

Jeff, you'd better ask Joe about that. I don't want to ruin my perfect record!

Dean


----------



## joe d (Aug 2, 2010)

Chicken, Dean? Rof}

Jeff: the pulley is called out as brass or aluminum, as it has a matching array of magnets countersunk in the inside rim to work with the magnets in the impeller. The whole point here to avoid the need for a through shaft with the ensuing sealing problems.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Jeff02 (Aug 2, 2010)

Got it, Magnets on both pieces and No mechanical connection between the two.

Thanks!


----------



## Deanofid (Aug 2, 2010)

Magnets! 
Not chicken, Joe. I know they really do it with mirrors! 
Ya can't fool me..

Dean


----------



## joe d (Aug 4, 2010)

Dean: it's smoke and mirrors. Never forget the smoke....

Got the bench test done on the pump, we have circulation! Here's a very short video thereof...




Here it is stuck in place





And with the flywheel in place. The clearance was dictated by the belt I had on hand.. sometimes ya gits lucky!





the other side





not much left now...

Joe


----------



## SAM in LA (Aug 4, 2010)

Joe,

Your magnetic drive pump is very nice.

For your pump test, see how high the water can be pumped.

The difference in elevation between the suctions liquid level and the height of the discharge liquid will give you the feet of head. 2.31 ft of water head is equal to 1 psi.

You can also measure the volume by pumping from or to a graduated cylinder to determine GPM (gallons per minute) or litres per fortnight. :big:

Regards,

SAM


----------



## joe d (Aug 4, 2010)

Sam

Thanks for that! I had no idea how to quantify the output. Now, of course, I'll have to try that out....

In the video it was running with a 2" drive pulley at 500 rpm. When I increased the speed to a nominal 880 rpm, the output stream was going markedly further with greater pressure... now I can put some numbers on that... thanks again, much appreciated.
This sort of input is why I like this place Thm:

Cheers, Joe


----------



## T70MkIII (Aug 5, 2010)

Great to see the pump working well, Joe. Nice job!


----------



## joe d (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks, Richard.

Needed to tie down the coil next to the pump, so made up a clamp on a foot that screws down on the wooden base





and here's things no longer flopping around





Things are likely to slow down a little bit, as I'm on vacation as of tomorrow evening, and will be in and out of town for the next two weeks. Shop time will happen, just a little intermittently.

Cheers, Joe


----------



## kustomkb (Aug 5, 2010)

So close...

That pump turned out slick!

Have a good vacation.


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## Deanofid (Aug 5, 2010)

Everything's coming together very well, Joe. It's at the point where I don't want to wait, but
have a nice vacation, anyway!  ;D ;D

Hope you enjoy yourself!

Dean


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## larry1 (Aug 5, 2010)

Joe, Have a great vacation,  Ithink you have done a great job on this engine. larry


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## SkyMoCo (Aug 9, 2010)

With Mjnfabrication.com being out of business, where would you get a distributor for the Snow?  Or would you have to go electronic and build your own?


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## joe d (Aug 9, 2010)

Kevin, Dean, & Larry: 

Thanks, Guys! Vacation is going well so far, spent Saturday at a retirement bash for an old Navy buddy, we were Acting Corporals together at Recruit School a very long time ago...going to the Montreal Casino today with the Mother in Law to celebrate her 80th...
will be sneaking in some shop time later whilst bemoaning how much stock I could have gotten if the loot could have been given to the local metal merchants instead :big:

SkyMoCo: A while back, (post 100 of this thread) it was mentioned that Roy was going to start stocking the Satra distributors. I don't know if he has, don't see any mention of them on his site http://www.cncengines.com/index.html you could certainly e-mail his to check it out.

Cheers, Joe


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## joe d (Aug 10, 2010)

have successfully worked in some shop time already:

started with the bases for the oilers; turned a short spigot, threaded it with a die, drilled through 1/16", and turned down the rest and parted them off, threaded the other end in the vice with a die







the caps: drilled & tapped, then counterbored, then shaped the other end and parted off





cut some plastic tubing for the "glasses", a little tip for cutting flexible tubing relatively straight: bung in a bit of stock close to the ID and then cut around with a hobby knife





assembled:





and where they belong:





Cheers, Joe

(and incidentally, broke even at the Casino, and somebody else picked up the lunch tab, so not so bad after all!)


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## SAM in LA (Aug 10, 2010)

Joe,

Very clever using the clear tubing as glass.

SAM


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## Deanofid (Aug 10, 2010)

Excellent tip on cutting the tubing straight, Joe. Thanks!
The oilers look great. Every little step now makes this engine look 
better and better.

Dean


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## joe d (Aug 11, 2010)

Sam & Dean: (sounds like an early sixties pop group....) thanks for looking in.

Got the cams out of the way...

trued up a chunk of steel in the lathe, drilled & reamed for the cam shaft, popped in a temporary dead centre, and cut a little deeper than the minor dia with a parting tool, this way once all the other machining is done, I can can come back and part them off without an interrupted cut





off to the mill to whittle away everything that doesn't look like a cam... used a fly cutter, and rotated the stock a very approximate 10-15 degrees per cut, 





cleaned it up on the belt sander to remove all the little facets left from the milling, and them back in the mill for drilling and tapping for set-screws





then back in the lathe for parting off, easy-peasy to pick up the original parting cuts





and then some fairly finger-numbing cleaning up with numerous ascending grits of sand paper...and ta-dah: some cams!





This thing is soooo close... I've got to make or acquire a carb, make the fitting to attach said carb to the fuel intake manifold, cut 4 gaskets for the coolant outlets, install the fuel line, and.... and..... dang, nothing else left to machine! The rest is all assembly.

(Of course, then the re-making of some parts will no doubt ensue....)

Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Aug 11, 2010)

And another slick trick by Joe! Partially parting the blanks before you profile them is
just plain ol' darn good thinking! 
Thanks again, Joe. Yeah, the cams look great, too!

Dean


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## joe d (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks, Dean.

Now then... whilst pondering carburation options, decided to get busy sticking together the wiring.... since I know essentially squat about engine electrics, this is being instructional...

in other words,,,   HELP!

Here's a pic of the underside, and the base of the distributor





The Ignition board has 9 terminals: 
coil -
6 volt -
engine ground
points
LED -
LED +
spare
6 volt +
coil +

Now then: the coil (Exciter brand) has a red, a black, and a pair of white wires...
the distributor base has 2 terminals...(either side of the points)

So: 
 coil - : is the red or the black? 
 6 volt - : OK, engine ground: OK, 
 Points: two terminals on distributor... ground one to frame and the other one to the PC board terminal ? 
LED -, LED +, Spare: ignore all three,
 6 volt + : OK, 
coil + red or black?

and then the two white leads: am I correct in believing this goes to the centre of the distributor cap? And since there is two, do I just ignore one, or gang them?

Cheers, from the engine electrically challenged Joe


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## gbritnell (Aug 11, 2010)

Joe,
You have one of the last versions of the Exciter coils that had 2 high tension leads (white). They can both be used at the same time for an engine that requires them, other wise ground one of them. (-6volts) The other two wires on the coil are red, coil + terminal and black , coil - terminal. The one marked points goes to the insulated terminal on your points. Engine ground is self explanatory, it goes to the engine frame. The LED terminals are for an LED lamp which is useful for timing purposes. It sounds like you are using a Jerry Howell ignition and an LED is usually included with the set. The LED has 2 leads, the long one is positive and the short one is negative. The one that you call spare is for when or if you would use a Hall trigger instead of the points setup but we'll leave that for another day.
gbritnell


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## joe d (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks, George.

Much clearer now. Only two questions for now: both terminals for the points are insulated on the body of the distributor (Satra) ; so I can just randomly pick one to connect to the PCB and ground the other? As well: does this require high-tension wiring, or will some 22 ga hook-up wire do the trick?

cheers, Joe

(edited to add yet another question....)


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## joe d (Sep 4, 2010)

Vacation's over, the stairwell to the basement has a new coat of paint, and I'm back in the shop...

Masked, primed, and painted all the parts that are supposed to be painted. Slow job, couple of minutes painting, wait a day, repeat...





and here's pretty much all the other bits:





and then started on a carb. I'd been faffing around trying to decide on buying or making one, finally decided to make one.
I'm using the plans from George Britnell's 4 cyl OHV. Started out with the needle valve body, turned one end and threaded, turned it about and same again, and drilled almost through from the end





then turned about again and drilled the jet: had that 4 jaw spinning at 5800 RPM (top speed on this lathe) and it worked OK





Then on to the needle: turned and threaded a bit of brass, drilled through for the needle, and turned down a length to fit inside the valve body, and parted it off with a little bit of threaded portion left





Rigged a tool-holder for my brand-new scissor knurling tool, and knurled a bit of brass rod (hadn't done this since high-school shop class, seems to have worked OK!)





drilled and tapped, and parted off 





stuck a duly sharpened piece of music wire in the holding bit, screwed that into the knurled bit, and silver soldered the whole thing together. Polished up the end, and here we are.





Now into the long week-end, so should see some more progress! 

Cheers, joe


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## Deanofid (Sep 4, 2010)

Good makins, Joe!
I see you broke down and bought something for a change, instead of building
it. Kind of rare for you. So, how do you like it, (the knurler!)? And, where
did you buy it?

Oh, and the tool holder you made for it looks great, BTW.

Dean


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## joe d (Sep 4, 2010)

Hi Dean

Picked up the knurling tool at Busy Bee. It's worked OK so far,tried it on brass and some ali, haven't tried any steel yet. I was in Ottawa for an overnighter during my vacation, which conveniently has a Busy Bee store, Lee Valley Tools, and a Princess Auto... lots of shopping opportunities ;D the thing was on sale, I couldn't help myself. SWMBO was looking over the various iterations of SIEG lathes mentioning how "Too bad they're too big for your shop, Dear", she didn't seem to hear my reply of "room CAN be made". Oh well.

Cheers, Joe


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## b.lindsey (Sep 4, 2010)

Joe, this is an inspiring thread. I had missed the post on making the cams but like that procedure very much. I will only have two to make on my current project but will be giving that a try for sure. Thanks for sharing your techniques.

Bill


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## joe d (Sep 6, 2010)

Bill: Thanks, and you're welcome!

Closing in on the end here... made up the carb body: squared up some ali in the mill, bored, drilled, tapped, turned bosses, taper-turned for venturi, neglected to take any "in progress" photos, so here it is done:





with the dimension established by the body, I could now make the fitting to attach the thing to the manifold, turned, drilled, and bored





soldered it to the the piece that joins the two halves of the intake manifold





and here's all the bits where they belong:





Still have to make the barrel, so, unless I've missed something somewhere, I have got 

ONE PIECE LEFT TO MACHINE woohoo1

Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Sep 6, 2010)

YaHoo!


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## gmac (Sep 6, 2010)

Joe;
Like many others I'm silently following this thread - with my jaw hanging down on the keyboard... :big: Glad to see the finish line is in sight for you, I'm as keen as you to see it run!

I giggled when I saw your table of finished parts - with the "Les Nessman partition tape". Boy I hope you don't have any curious three year old's in your house....I grew up the oldest in a house of six kids so I can spot trouble/fun 20 miles away!!!

Could you tell me what you are using for parting off blades on the Taig - I've picked up a spare Taig tool post to use at the rear, but haven't yet acquired the blade. Any recommendations?

Cheers and good luck on the first run...

Garry


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## gbritnell (Sep 6, 2010)

Hi Joe,
Everything is looking great! It won't be long now and you'll be hearing some music from it. Your thread has been great. I have followed it from the beginning and have learned more than a thing or two from it. 
George


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## joe d (Sep 6, 2010)

Dean: Right back at ya!

Garry: Thanks! I'm the second last of 6, so I know it from the other end... my youngest is 22, so the trouble is of an entirely different order! The parting tool came as is from Lee Valley, but it doesn't seem to be listed in the current catalog. Might be worth calling them, they sometimes have things in the warehouse that aren't listed, for instance, they stock the drive belts for the Taig, but I've never yet seen them listed.. Les Nessman, eh? You rat... now I'll be hearing "WKRP" in my head for weeks :big:

George: Thanks to you as well. Your assistance has been invaluable.

Joe


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## Deanofid (Sep 6, 2010)

joe d  said:
			
		

> now I'll be hearing "WKRP" in my head for weeks :big:



Remember, Les Nessman always had a Bandaid on him somewhere. Always! Wouldn't want him in
my shop. It would be a bloody mess! 

I'm getting ready for you engine music too, Joe. I've really enjoyed this thread from the first post!

Dean


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## joe d (Sep 22, 2010)

Hi all

A little lack-of-success yet report to be going on with... got it all assembled, so far have got spark on all four cylinders, but NO put put put... so, I think that next I've got to make up some kind of adapter to get a pressure gauge on each cylinder to see if I have compression. If that's OK, then I will be soliciting advice as to what else might be the issue...

Here's what it looks like :







Cheers, Joe


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## Deanofid (Sep 23, 2010)

Wow. But you gotta give us more pictures than that, Joe!! 
Ya big tease.

Dean


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## kustomkb (Sep 23, 2010)

That's quite a good looking rig you have built Joe.

Hope ya get it sorted without too much trouble.


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## gbritnell (Sep 23, 2010)

Hi Joe,
It's really hard to get a pressure reading on these little engines. A more realistic idea would be how it feels when you crank it over. If it feels like it has compression, then it does. With the quality of work that you've put into this engine I wouldn't think that compression would be an issue, at least from the cylinder. It's possible that a valve might not be sealing all the way but then I assume you checked them out prior to assembly. Let us know what you find.
George


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## Rustkolector (Sep 23, 2010)

Joe, 
If the flywheel rocks at all when you spin it, you should be good to go. You don't need much compression to get it going. Use Coleman camp fuel with about 5% #10 wt oil. Don't use 2 cycle oil, or automotive gasoline. I don't know anything about your carb, but if the throat diameter is .150" or less, you should be ok. Keep it nearly closed on starting. If the throat is larger, close the throttle until the air going through it makes a "hissing" noise, or just barely open. Any more open, and you likely won't have enough air velocity to vaporize the fuel. This engine seems to do better with a very small carb. Keep the fuel level about .50" under the carb jet elevation. The ignition wire should be rated 5kv or higher. Turn the lights out and look (and listen) for ignition shorts, especially in and around the distributor. Late intake valve opening works well on this engine. As George has said any leaky valves will always cause problems. I vacuum test my valve cages. Pump up to 25" Hg. They should lose vacuum slowly with light oil on the guides. You are at the fun stage. Good luck.

Jeff


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## joe d (Jun 25, 2011)

Wow... haven't reported any progress since last September... I'm proving the theory that 90% of the build is construction, followed by 90% being tweaking (and that the math doesn't work is the least of my issues ;D)

Still haven't heard that magic music yet, it's on carb #3, I've re-built the fuel tank stand to move the level of the fuel below that of the carb, and in the photo, I've just started re-assembly after fitting new pistons that both fit better, and have a tighter tolerance for the ring grooves. 






Now however, things will shudder to a halt again, as of Monday I will be out of town (work) until September.
Don't give up Snow Fans, I will be back!

Cheers, Joe


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## Speedy (Jun 26, 2011)

good to hear from you Joe.
love the update, wish their would be more. 
work hard, but leave some energy for the snow when you get back  8)


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## joe d (Jun 26, 2011)

Michael

Good to hear from you, Bud! If you won't mention how long the Snow is taking, I won't ask any questions about the jeep :big:

Have a good summer,

Joe


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