# Another Boll Aero 1.8



## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 23, 2020)

Hi guys!!

this is my first engine build, i been learning some lathe skills, and last weekend i got a used mill... so i don´t know to much about using it...
Anyway, my metal shop is small and have not a lot of tools, but think have enough for my first building.

i started cutting my Square Alu bar with band saw and facing it in my mill!!!  (first cut made by me ever! ) not very clean, even with slow passes, but, ok for blue dye and make some marks....

Having not a Boring head, i got a 4 jaw chuck that i got last week and fix the body to it... after carefully find a right place to fix my magnetic dial (my lathe is small) i dial my body and find a nice center... so i start with my starting dril, 1/4, 1/2, and a boring tool i made... 

Think is ok as the hole was made in one step, and was well aligned with the body....   

Here the pics...


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 23, 2020)

the boring tool i made seems to work fine!   clean cuts!  i´m happy!

next step: clean the lathe for next move!


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## Tim Wescott (Jul 24, 2020)

Cool!  I look forward to seeing the build.


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## NickP (Jul 24, 2020)

Hi Rodrigo - nice start - I’m following as a fellow beginner


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## awake (Jul 24, 2020)

Rodrigo,

You're off to a good start! That mill should serve you well, but I want to check just to be sure - in the pictures it looks like you are using a drill chuck to hold the endmill. You can sometimes get away with that, but it is not the best or safest practice. I'm guessing that machine has an R8 spindle; if so, a set of R8 collets is inexpensive and widely available, and will do a great job for holding endmills - and will give you much more "head room" to use on your mill. If your mill uses an MT spindle (MT2 or MT3), you can get collets for these as well - not quite as widely available, but not necessarily more expensive.

As for boring using the 4-jaw on the lathe - the downside is that you are limited to the size of piece that you can put in the 4-jaw chuck, and of course it can be a bit of work to get the piece positioned correctly. But once that is done, I think it is easier and can produce better results to bore on the lathe rather than on the mill.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 24, 2020)

awake said:


> Rodrigo,
> 
> You're off to a good start! That mill should serve you well, but I want to check just to be sure - in the pictures it looks like you are using a drill chuck to hold the endmill. You can sometimes get away with that, but it is not the best or safest practice. I'm guessing that machine has an R8 spindle; if so, a set of R8 collets is inexpensive and widely available, and will do a great job for holding endmills - and will give you much more "head room" to use on your mill. If your mill uses an MT spindle (MT2 or MT3), you can get collets for these as well - not quite as widely available, but not necessarily more expensive.
> 
> As for boring using the 4-jaw on the lathe - the downside is that you are limited to the size of piece that you can put in the 4-jaw chuck, and of course it can be a bit of work to get the piece positioned correctly. But once that is done, I think it is easier and can produce better results to bore on the lathe rather than on the mill.


Hi Andy!  

Thanks for write!  
i really don´t know any about the collets or r8 Spindle... the mill came with that chuck mounted and other regular drill chuck, with MT2 taper....   i will unmount the one is on it and maybe you can help me with that....   

.... yes... my lathe is small, and was my first job using a 4 jaw chuck....   toke me about 15 minutes to align the piece and the job must got done at very slow speed as the unbalanced wheel effect was very hi at medium speeds... but think the bore was ok....  
after seeing my bore....  i think i should start with the cylinder bore!  now i don´t have to much material to hold the piece, so 4 wood pieces will be needed for clamp the piece...

Cheeeeers 
Rodrigo 
PS. Sorry for my low knowledge about tools, and as my first language is spanish, somethings i can not find the right name of tools...    still trying to find good sources about Case hardening in spanish, but seems that not a right translate for that...


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## Olli-Matti (Jul 25, 2020)

Hello Rodrigo!
Nice to see you here aswell. You seem to have exactly same interests as I do, thats cool. My father and brother are also quite good guitarists and also like to build instruments as a hobby but for some reason i have not gotten into that. But I will also try my wings as a machinist! Will follow your progress closely and wish you good luck with the build!
The start looks great 
By the way what is that blue stuff and when can one find it? Haven’t bumped into that one before.
Best regards your flying friend
Ollie


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## awake (Jul 25, 2020)

Rodrigo, nothing to be sorry about - the way to learn is to jump in, ask questions, and try things out. And your English is way better than my Spanish!

Case hardening can be done the old-fashioned way, by packing the piece in carbon rich material and heating for an extended time. There are commercial formulations that work faster and easier. The one I've used is called Kasenite; you heat the part to cherry red, dip it / coat it in Kasenite, reheat to cherry red, and then quench in water. I'm not sure how deep the case hardening goes, but it gives a good hard surface.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 25, 2020)

Olli-Matti said:


> Hello Rodrigo!
> Nice to see you here aswell. You seem to have exactly same interests as I do, thats cool. My father and brother are also quite good guitarists and also like to build instruments as a hobby but for some reason i have not gotten into that. But I will also try my wings as a machinist! Will follow your progress closely and wish you good luck with the build!
> The start looks great
> By the way what is that blue stuff and when can one find it? Haven’t bumped into that one before.
> ...


Hi Olli!  yes! agree with you!  same kind of interest!
i just share you via facebook a link for your first lathe steps...    at this point with my Boll, i´m only using my lathe for most all steps, and for sure, all the engine can be build in a lathe if you get an mill slice... by the way!! NICE lathe you got!!!!! 


For the blue dye, i got a mexican brand, but for sure you can find something similar, just look on you ebay as  blue layout fluid, for sure you will find something similar.

any i can help please let me know... 
your friend Rodrigo

PS  please!!!  watch for clickspring channel in youtube! nothing about engines, but the skills and explain of this guy is amazing!!!!!


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 25, 2020)

awake said:


> Rodrigo, nothing to be sorry about - the way to learn is to jump in, ask questions, and try things out. And your English is way better than my Spanish!
> 
> Case hardening can be done the old-fashioned way, by packing the piece in carbon rich material and heating for an extended time. There are commercial formulations that work faster and easier. The one I've used is called Kasenite; you heat the part to cherry red, dip it / coat it in Kasenite, reheat to cherry red, and then quench in water. I'm not sure how deep the case hardening goes, but it gives a good hard surface.


Hi Andy!
Thanks!!  i been watching videos on youtube,   there is something called cherry red, and found a video about what are you talking about!  leather must get burned in a metal case to get nice charcoal, some stuff added, maybe some borax, something to make coquies, and water, heat, and you get a nice hard steel....   
Think this places are great for learning as found very nice people in groups that are glad to help, and that is nice!
Rodrigo


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 25, 2020)

Hi Guys!
some more work done today!
sadly my metal worksop shares same space as my guitar workshop, so i don´t have to many time to spend in the lathe, but, today had not to much clients so i made some work...
i bored the cylinder hole, and found that this could be easier to make FIRST, as the body has already bored for the crankshaft, and the jaws almost have no material to hold...  
Still developing my centering skills, and for sure, i will need to make a new "body" but, Guys! this is fun!!!!
After finish my body, i start my front end case.... but not time to finish it...





i added some wood scrap to protect the body, but will use something harder for the next one.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 26, 2020)

awake said:


> Rodrigo, nothing to be sorry about - the way to learn is to jump in, ask questions, and try things out. And your English is way better than my Spanish!
> 
> Case hardening can be done the old-fashioned way, by packing the piece in carbon rich material and heating for an extended time. There are commercial formulations that work faster and easier. The one I've used is called Kasenite; you heat the part to cherry red, dip it / coat it in Kasenite, reheat to cherry red, and then quench in water. I'm not sure how deep the case hardening goes, but it gives a good hard surface.


I'm sure I'm going to be trying this in the future.  Where would you buy Kasenite?  Internet?


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## Richard Hed (Jul 26, 2020)

Rodrigo Castellanos said:


> Hi Olli!  yes! agree with you!  same kind of interest!
> i just share you via facebook a link for your first lathe steps...    at this point with my Boll, i´m only using my lathe for most all steps, and for sure, all the engine can be build in a lathe if you get an mill slice... by the way!! NICE lathe you got!!!!!
> 
> 
> ...


I've been watching Clickspring quite often. Look at his fantastic "introduction" in this one:  

This is such a quality introduction I almost p*st my pants.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 26, 2020)

Rodrigo Castellanos said:


> Hi Guys!
> some more work done today!
> sadly my metal worksop shares same space as my guitar workshop, so i don´t have to many time to spend in the lathe, but, today had not to much clients so i made some work...
> i bored the cylinder hole, and found that this could be easier to make FIRST, as the body has already bored for the crankshaft, and the jaws almost have no material to hold...
> ...


Rodrigo,
I'M not a nice guy.  But yes, I was about to mention those wood scraps --BAD idea, but then you explained.  Nice progress.


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## awake (Jul 26, 2020)

Rodrigo, you are getting excellent results! Well done. Your experience in careful craftsmanship with making guitars is giving you a head-start on the metal working.

Soft copper or aluminum shims are often used to protect a part from the jaws - these are soft enough to protect, but not as likely to give too much (or splinter apart) the way wood might.


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## awake (Jul 26, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> I'm sure I'm going to be trying this in the future.  Where would you buy Kasenite?  Internet?



Yes, you should be able to find it from various vendors. Here are a couple of the first links that came up:









						CHERRY RED TR-CHER-1 1 lb. Size Jar Surface Hardening Compound Hardening Compound
					

Instant Case Hardening with Cherry Red Surface Hardening Compound. The instant case hardening compound from Cherry Red allows you to instantly case harden your steel parts without the need for any heat treating equipment. You can turn a steel piece into a hardened tool right on your shop floor...




					www.travers.com
				












						KASENIT  Size  Hardening Compound
					

Non-poisonous, non-explosive, and non-flammableApplicationsMay be used on steel, cast, wrought or malleable iron.Just brush on and then heat treat at up to 1,650° for 50 minutes.FeaturesA rapid compound for surface hardening.Up to .020" case depths in 50 minutes.For fine work & very rapid hardening.




					www.travers.com
				




Apparently I was incorrect in putting the "e" on the end - when I did the search I realized it is Kasenit.


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## Shaun free (Jul 27, 2020)

awake said:


> Rodrigo,
> 
> You're off to a good start! That mill should serve you well, but I want to check just to be sure - in the pictures it looks like you are using a drill chuck to hold the endmill. You can sometimes get away with that, but it is not the best or safest practice. I'm guessing that machine has an R8 spindle; if so, a set of R8 collets is inexpensive and widely available, and will do a great job for holding endmills - and will give you much more "head room" to use on your mill. If your mill uses an MT spindle (MT2 or MT3), you can get collets for these as well - not quite as widely available, but not necessarily more expensive.
> 
> As for boring using the 4-jaw on the lathe - the downside is that you are limited to the size of piece that you can put in the 4-jaw chuck, and of course it can be a bit of work to get the piece positioned correctly. But once that is done, I think it is easier and can produce better results to bore on the lathe rather than on the mill.



It will also increase your accuracy. One thing to remember tool life and accuracy is greatly increased with rigidity


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## Tim Wescott (Jul 27, 2020)

awake said:


> Soft copper or aluminum shims are often used to protect a part from the jaws - these are soft enough to protect, but not as likely to give too much (or splinter apart) the way wood might.



And better an accurate part with tool marks than the other way around!

The cheapest source for soft aluminum shim stock is aluminum drink cans.  And, it gives you an excuse to buy beer ("Honey, I'm running down to the store for a case of shim stock!")

I've only got one partial engine build under my belt (a new set of moving parts for a Cox TD 09).  Basically, I just kept going even after I screwed up.  I ended up with an engine that barely ran, and that probably only put in 5000 revolutions between being broken in and worn out -- but it ran!  

And I learned a lot.  Including the fact that you cannot work too hard to get all the lapping compound off of your moving parts before you try running the engine in.


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## Tim Wescott (Jul 27, 2020)

I think if I were faced with your problem of how to hold the crank case after boring the center hole, then I would first check to see if the part would sit firmly enough into the chuck as you've pictured, but without the shims.  If the chuck jaws span the hole, you're probably all right -- but I think that wasn't the case for you.  Just tightening the chuck may fail because you'd need to squeeze pretty tight across not much aluminum.

If it were me, after I cursed myself for not boring the cylinder hole first, I would find two nice flat pieces of stock that would span the holes, and use those in place of the shims.  I'd probably just tighten the chuck against the solid sides of the case, and accept the fact that I may have some tool marks that I'd need to adjust out later.

I've been watching Abom79's YouTube channel a lot lately -- there's a lot of general shop practice, but in the last year or so he's been paying a lot of attention to showing how he does work-holding and setup, which I've found very useful.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 27, 2020)

Tim Wescott said:


> I think if I were faced with your problem of how to hold the crank case after boring the center hole, then I would first check to see if the part would sit firmly enough into the chuck as you've pictured, but without the shims.  If the chuck jaws span the hole, you're probably all right -- but I think that wasn't the case for you.  Just tightening the chuck may fail because you'd need to squeeze pretty tight across not much aluminum.
> 
> If it were me, after I cursed myself for not boring the cylinder hole first, I would find two nice flat pieces of stock that would span the holes, and use those in place of the shims.  I'd probably just tighten the chuck against the solid sides of the case, and accept the fact that I may have some tool marks that I'd need to adjust out later.
> 
> I've been watching Abom79's YouTube channel a lot lately -- there's a lot of general shop practice, but in the last year or so he's been paying a lot of attention to showing how he does work-holding and setup, which I've found very useful.


Hi Tim!
you are right! i went to the metal shop today and got some alu bars for holding my piece, as i think still being better to make the crankshaft bore before the cylinder...    Anyway, i will try to make a new "body" and see if can be more centered the the previous one!.


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## Tim Wescott (Jul 27, 2020)

Remember that the most important thing is that the cylinder bore ends up being at right angles to the crankshaft -- things can be offset up or down or right or left or fore or aft and you can compensate.  The only thing you can't fix is the crankpin trying to pull the piston somewhere it can't go, and that'll happen if they're not square to one another.


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## Steamchick (Jul 28, 2020)

awake said:


> Yes, you should be able to find it from various vendors. Here are a couple of the first links that came up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi, I have used Karen it and it is very good. I was taught as a teenager, in a proper machining and engine refurbishing workshop, with the regional licence for servicing and rebuilding industrial Broome -Wade compressors! The job was case hardening turned shafts for grinding to finished size - using leather wrapped around the shafts, secured with wire and cooked in a wood fire (furnace with lots of draught). That was one of my "Saturday" jobs. Cutting old shoes and boots into strips of leather and wrapping the steel 2 layers thick, bound with wire, then firing to red-heat and quenching. The parts actually ended up in the red hot charcoal before removal from the fire, so probably the charcoal had as much case-hardening effect as the leather? But a fun job for "the boy". I guess you could use the charcoal barbecue nowadays..... burned sausage and burger fat may add an extra something? After a few beers, humans make a suitable cooling fluid for the red-hot parts.. For a bit of nitriding?
Also, for a scriber, or small hand tool, we used sugar. It burned when we dipped red-hot steel into a tin of sugar, but it worked OK. Then this new thing called Kasenit became available.... but the boss bought a tin and decided it was only as useful as coke dust, or sugar. We didn't quantitively analyse the performance of relative hardening methods, but where can you get coke dust nowadays?
In medieval times, blacksmiths used donkey pee for quenching blades and tools to get a better edge. The donkey would be fed only on turnips to get "strong liquor, for a good blade". The nitrogen in ammonia is still used for nitriding, but today we use gaseous ammonia in a furnace. For the small home workshop you can nitride steel by using  case-hardening technique with Nitrogen-rich fertilizer, from your Garden store. But the fumes are toxic, so do it in the open air and avoid the smoke.
Incidentally, you can make a few dummy workpieces, practice your technique, and judge by using your automatic punch as a consistent tool and measuring the size of indentations. Compare un-hardened with hardened material, and the diameter of the pop-mark will give you a rough guide to the effectiveness of your process.
Enjoy.
K


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## Steamchick (Jul 28, 2020)

Again, spell checker has changed Kasenit to Karen it! Aaargh!


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## L98fiero (Jul 28, 2020)

Steamchick said:


> Again, spell checker has changed Kasenit to Karen it! Aaargh!


I was wondering about that!


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## gunner312 (Jul 28, 2020)

Rodrigo Castellanos said:


> Hi guys!!
> 
> this is my first engine build, i been learning some lathe skills, and last weekend i got a used mill... so i don´t know to much about using it...
> Anyway, my metal shop is small and have not a lot of tools, but think have enough for my first building.
> ...





Rodrigo Castellanos said:


> Hi guys!!
> 
> this is my first engine build, i been learning some lathe skills, and last weekend i got a used mill... so i don´t know to much about using it...
> Anyway, my metal shop is small and have not a lot of tools, but think have enough for my first building.
> ...


Looks like a nice little mill. BUT (always a but isn't there?) you need to A: A set of collets for holding the endmills, Drill chucks are for drilling, not milling. B, Get a proper milling vise for holding stock for milling and drilling. The multiple axis vise you have is good for drilling and milling special angles, it isn't the most rigid for work-holding. With any cutting operation, rigidity is the key to clean, accurate cuts. Congratulations on your advancement in the hobby.


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## awake (Jul 28, 2020)

Steamchick said:


> In medieval times, blacksmiths used donkey pee for quenching blades and tools to get a better edge. The donkey would be fed only on turnips to get "strong liquor, for a good blade".



That's a bit of lore that I had not heard before! Hmm ... now I'm wondering what I need to eat for a week or so before nitriding my next part ... should work, right? I don't have a donkey, but some people say I'm a bit of an a--.


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## Richard Hed (Jul 28, 2020)

awake said:


> That's a bit of lore that I had not heard before! Hmm ... now I'm wondering what I need to eat for a week or so before nitriding my next part ... should work, right? I don't have a donkey, but some people say I'm a bit of an a--.


I've heard that people use urine for nitriding before and I can easily believe it too.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 30, 2020)

Hi guys!

Some work done today...  
never used a reamer before... What a nice tool!


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 30, 2020)




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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Jul 30, 2020)




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## Steamchick (Jul 31, 2020)

I have applied some "compost activator" to my garden waste - which may be a source of nitrogen? As a lad, I was taught by a gardener on the local allotment to pee on his compost heap for the nitrogen... Peeing in hedgerows, on trees, or walls, to him was a waste of good fertiliser! But nowadays he would be arrested for telling young boys where to point their privates! - But all we saw were his big cabbages.
Also, pre-20th century, Lye was made by collecting pee and storing for 3 months - then using it as a solution to clean your clothes. A chemical version of Lye is still available - and is probably in your kitchen cupboard now. Any cleaner "with ammonia" is based on Lye, I think? But these are probably liquids, and contain other chemical nasties that you don't want up your nose when quenching red-hot steel!
K


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## awake (Jul 31, 2020)

I'm no chemist, so I may be getting this wrong ...

Ammonia:  NH3
Lye:            NaOH

So the only element in common is some hydrogen. While urine will decompose to ammonia, I don't *think* it will convert to lye, at least not without some additional chemistry to introduce the sodium and get rid of the nitrogen.

As I understand it, lye was traditionally made, not from urine, but from wood ash - "steep" the wood ash in water and drain it.


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## Tim Wescott (Jul 31, 2020)

Not sure what you're thinking vis. lye -- lye is sodium or potassium hydroxide, and is traditionally extracted from wood ashes.

Ammonia develops in well-aged pee, and apparently one of its uses was to clean stuff.

And pee is good in compost, if your compost pile has a lot of fibrous or woody stuff in it.


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## Steamchick (Jul 31, 2020)

Thanks for that. I didn't know lye was sodium hydroxide. Must have got crossed wires when I learned about pee when I was a lad. (More than 1/2 century ago...).


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 6, 2020)

Hi Guys!  
some slow progress done...   
i turn my head, was a very slow process, as carriege seems to really need a stop.... as when i´m parting or grooveing a large pieces, it seems to move, but after holding the wheel with the other hand, i was able to groove and part the head


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## Steamchick (Aug 7, 2020)

Hi, to use as as carriage lock, I disengage the lead-screw at the change wheels, then engage the stationary lead-screw to lock the carriage. Any use? It helps me when parting, etc.
Also, on the cross-slide, I often use a rubber band to hold the setting, in case vibration, gravity on the handle, etc. causes the cut to back-off. Suprising how little extra friction is needed to hold the cut... saves my hand, and any twitches I have, affecting the cut.
(I was driving once with only one hand on the steering wheel, close to a barrier in a narrow gap, when a sudden sneeze caused me to twitch the wheel and scratch some paintwork on the car. Not just #!!*&# all over my face! Embarrassment as well!).
K
K


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## Tim Wescott (Aug 7, 2020)

I'd look hard to see if there's a carriage lock on that thing -- they're easy enough to implement.  If it doesn't have a lock, but does have adjustable gibs, you could always tighten them down for operations like that (ew, ick).


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## Richard Hed (Aug 7, 2020)

Steamchick said:


> Hi, to use as as carriage lock, I disengage the lead-screw at the change wheels, then engage the stationary lead-screw to lock the carriage. Any use? It helps me when parting, etc.
> Also, on the cross-slide, I often use a rubber band to hold the setting, in case vibration, gravity on the handle, etc. causes the cut to back-off. Suprising how little extra friction is needed to hold the cut... saves my hand, and any twitches I have, affecting the cut.
> (I was driving once with only one hand on the steering wheel, close to a barrier in a narrow gap, when a sudden sneeze caused me to twitch the wheel and scratch some paintwork on the car. Not just #!!*&# all over my face! Embarrassment as well!).
> K
> K


Mr. Steam, just what kind of lathe have you got?  Disengage the lead screw at the change gears?  That seems to me to be an AWFUL lot of trouble.  wouldn't it be worth yor time to make a couple carraige stops for the ways?  I found on my enco that the friction stop was on the right side of the carraige.  For years, I thot it was on the left side and it never seemed to work.  One day, out of curiosity, I tried the hex bolt on the right side and VOILA!  it workt.  I would have sworn it was on the left side.  Must have been for some lathe I workt on when employed.  You should be able to make a regular stop for your machine too.  I've seen either a vid or something wherein the person is redoing their stops.  It may have been one of the lesser known Brits who makes a lot of his own tools.  I thimk he is the one I got the idea to make a hand wheel to turn my own lathe.  Couldn't have made internal threads with out it.


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## Steamchick (Aug 9, 2020)

Thanks Richard, but, after cutting a small hole for an allen key that is the lock for securing the change wheel support bar, I simply slacken, then rotate the change wheel support bar, to disengage the drive to the lead screw, then lock again. It's a cheap Chinese lathe, and cheap means things seen on more expensive lathes simply don't  exist on mine. The lathe is a lot quieter with lead screw disengaged when not needed, such as when parting-off.
Thanks for advice,
K


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## Steamchick (Aug 9, 2020)

Ola Rodrigo,
Interesting pictures!
Keep up the good work.
K


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 11, 2020)

Hi guys!

yesterday went to my local steel store and got some 12L14 steel bar for my cylinders... think was hard to turn, but not, turns very nicely!  i even got a 1/2" reamer, but was so long to fit my lathe, so i must finish the bore with my handmade boring tool, think the result is great!  still needs to be polished and "honed".


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## Steamchick (Aug 12, 2020)

Hi Rodrigo, nice bit of machining, but....
I don't  know you background, skills , experience, tooling, etc. So I stand to be corrected by experts, and will learn on the way.
I am an engineer, not a fully trained machinist so may have a different perspective from machinists, but not necessarily wrong.
My ideas, based on a teenage apprenticeship in a machine shop, 43 years as an engineer in industry, including some in engine manufacture. 
All machines have some mis-alignment, no matter how small, and we aim to overcome this with the "correct" set-up , wherever possible. I see you have the workpiece in the chuck, boring from the main slide. Any mis-alignment between the slide and headstock will cause a tapered bore when set-up this way. With a very accurate lathe this should not be a problem, as the taper over a short length of bore should be well within tolerance limits for the part. 
But the theoretical best set-up is to describe a circle with the tool, and progress this circle through the bore. This gives better parallelism of the bore. So when proceeding to your next engine, make a cylinder mount to clamp the cylinder to a datum face, clock this from the chuck to ensure the datum face is truly perpendicular to the axis of the chuck, affix the pre-machined cylinder - which should have allowance for finish boring. Then use a boring tool (mounted in the Mainshaft taper) and progress the tool through the cylinder. This then replicates industrial Boring machines, to give a true circular bore that is parallel and only needs honing to finish.
Enjoy machining!
If anyone wants to teach me the errors of my ways, I'm ready to learn some more!
K


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## Robsmith (Aug 13, 2020)

Steamchick   Does what you wrote mean.    Mount the cylinder on the cross slide and the tool in the chuck then wind the cylinder onto the rotating tool ??


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## Steamchick (Aug 13, 2020)

Yes. If you buy a boring bar holder to fit the mainshaft taper, you'll be able to index the boring bar to engage an appropriate cut. But you will need to pre - drill the cylinder when set on a fixture on the cross-slide (a drill bit in the chuck will do, or held in a collet chuck in the Mainshaft taper).
As you have a Milling machine that will serve as a boring machine also, instead of the lathe. The set-up is probably easier on the vertical mill.
Turn a blank cylinder leaving 1/16 - 1/8th. In to finish bore. Mount vertically on the mill cross slide. Align work to tool quill. Fit boring bar holder, and bar, and index tool to just touch the drilled bore. Adjust the boring bar to apply the cut (say 0.005"). Run the motor at speed for boring the material, and index down the bore to get a true cylindrical bore. Take it out to -0.003" to -0.001" (undersize). Clean-up to size using a hone to develop the fine finish for a bore. All modern engine bores are made that way on dedicated boring bar machines, but a mill can do exactly the same process.
K


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 13, 2020)

Steamchick said:


> Yes. If you buy a boring bar holder to fit the mainshaft taper, you'll be able to index the boring bar to engage an appropriate cut. But you will need to pre - drill the cylinder when set on a fixture on the cross-slide (a drill bit in the chuck will do, or held in a collet chuck in the Mainshaft taper).
> As you have a Milling machine that will serve as a boring machine also, instead of the lathe. The set-up is probably easier on the vertical mill.
> Turn a blank cylinder leaving 1/16 - 1/8th. In to finish bore. Mount vertically on the mill cross slide. Align work to tool quill. Fit boring bar holder, and bar, and index tool to just touch the drilled bore. Adjust the boring bar to apply the cut (say 0.005"). Run the motor at speed for boring the material, and index down the bore to get a true cylindrical bore. Take it out to -0.003" to -0.001" (undersize). Clean-up to size using a hone to develop the fine finish for a bore. All modern engine bores are made that way on dedicated boring bar machines, but a mill can do exactly the same process.
> K


Hi Steamchick!  thanks for your knowledge!  i don´t have a boring head for milling machine,  will get one soon.   I´m not expert about machining, just simple process,  but think this kind of projects are so fun and they call us for learn a lot more! 
Still learning a lot, and watching what tools really will need soon, for sure i will want a DRO for my mill, but i need to buy some other stuff before....


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## Steamchick (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi Rodrigo. For a hundred years or so machinists have not had digital read-outs, so don't waste your money on those before you get all the "hard" tooling you want. Indexing Dials on the slide screws are easy when you have practiced reading them. Also, you must always "check, check, check" with your micrometers or vernier gauges, so is is very good practice to do a proper job, rather than rely on some numbers on a read-out. Machinists take years to learn their trade, so it is an "amateur's mistake" to expect to be able to do it all the right way immediately. Short cuts are only safe when you have expertise to make the judgment. First learn the full process from experts, then you'll be able to decide which process is best, and when you can use short-cuts. Digital read-outs are a bit of a short-cut in that they stop you thinking about the process, including measuring and checking, and you just think of numbers. 
 Money drains quickly when you buy decent tools, so prioritise, so you can do the "making" properly, and invest in tools that will serve you for a lifetime.
Enough of the sermon...
Here's an example from a UK stockist of cheap but usable  tools, I guess from China, so you can see the type of boring bar holder I suggest.
Search for:
Soba 75 mm boring bar head set MT4
Also there are plenty of guides on utube...
Enjoy!

K


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## Tim Wescott (Aug 15, 2020)

Steamchick said:


> ...
> Money drains quickly when you buy decent tools, so prioritise, so you can do the "making" properly, and invest in tools that will serve you for a lifetime.
> ...



Yea verily.  In a production shop, if you're doing a job all the time, it's cost effective to use the very best tool for that job -- because it'll pay for itself over time.

Even in a production shop, though, if you only do a job once in a while (or just once ever) and you can do that job with time and smarts and basic tooling, that's the better way to go.

That Boll Aero is designed to be built with a minimal lathe, and a minimal amount of tooling -- I think that if you find yourself needing every little specialized gizmo on earth to do the job, you may want to reassess what you need vs. what you want, or what you think you need.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 19, 2020)

Hi Guys!

some more work done and finally it starts to look like an engine, anyway, a lot of work is missing.

today i made a template to drill my head, using a screw to hold the head, and 2 holes at 90 degrees and a pin.  seems to work ok... sadly my measurements were wrong and i need to made a new head... the good thing is that mistake obligate me to work on my carrier stop (think is more like a real brake)


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 22, 2020)

Hi Guys!

Well, my first head went bad, as holes were out of measure, so after starting another, i decided to make a carrier stop, and it worked well,  now i can make grooves or parting with confidence... 

so. having 2 heads, i decided to try some anodize, as had trouble with reds in the past, decided to try again (blues and greens seems to be a lot easier to use).

tomorrow will try another gig for make the holes in my new head....


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## lathe nut (Aug 22, 2020)

Thanks for the show and tell, that is a cute little engine, are the plans available for us guys in the US and is there what is called power coating, shows you how much I know, thanks for you time to share, Joe


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## stanstocker (Aug 22, 2020)

The red anodize looks great!  As for the first head going bad, well I'm still on my first head and it doesn't seem as sharp as it used to be


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## Steamchick (Aug 23, 2020)

Tim Wescott said:


> Yea verily.  In a production shop, if you're doing a job all the time, it's cost effective to use the very best tool for that job -- because it'll pay for itself over time.
> 
> Even in a production shop, though, if you only do a job once in a while (or just once ever) and you can do that job with time and smarts and basic tooling, that's the better way to go.
> 
> That Boll Aero is designed to be built with a minimal lathe, and a minimal amount of tooling -- I think that if you find yourself needing every little specialized gizmo on earth to do the job, you may want to reassess what you need vs. what you want, or what you think you need.


Thanks Tim,
I agree. Make do and mend is best for most one-off jobs. But with time, experience and possibly a bit of wisdom or wealth, I have found that the odd tool - like one of these boring tool holders - is just an easier life when I have the job to do. (And retirement is supposed to be a bit easier, isn't it?).
I am currently trying to re-grind the jaws of a 3-jaw chuck that has never been true... maybe time to throw it and get something new? - And my rotary table (Chinese?) seems to have castings make of rubberised iron it is so flexible... I need an old second hand steel one.... Cheap tools bought when that was all I could afford just don't "cut-it", or not where I want it cut!
K


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## stackerjack (Aug 23, 2020)

lathe nut said:


> Thanks for the show and tell, that is a cute little engine, are the plans available for us guys in the US and is there what is called power coating, shows you how much I know, thanks for you time to share, Joe


I do have some plans for the Boll-aero engine. They are as images. There are 25 of them. Here's all of them together, but too small to read properly.


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## dethrow55 (Aug 23, 2020)

here is a set of plans for boll aero 18 .


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## stackerjack (Aug 23, 2020)

stackerjack said:


> I do have some plans for the Boll-aero engine. They are as images. There are 25 of them. Here's all of them together, but too small to read properly.
> View attachment 118822


Another variation on the Boll-Aero engine:


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 24, 2020)

hi guys! 

Well, i made a new head,  holes are now right located but not square....  will give it another try....   some frustration, but think is part of the fun and learn.


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## Richard Hed (Aug 24, 2020)

stackerjack said:


> I do have some plans for the Boll-aero engine. They are as images. There are 25 of them. Here's all of them together, but too small to read properly.
> View attachment 118822


A clean copy can be found in "Elmer's Engines"


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## Tim Wescott (Aug 26, 2020)

If the head bolts aren't quite on a square pattern but it fits in only one position, just make a discrete witness mark and don't let anyone but really good friends reassemble the engine.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 27, 2020)

Hi Guys!
today i made my 3th head and was perfect!   decided tap the gig and use the bolts as a pins, and got a lot better results!

I start to work on my cylinder, having not a lot of tools, decided to use a good eye, rulers, and blades to find the angles and highest spot over the cylinder.  i´m happy with the result, so i start to polish and hone the bore...  my coarse diamond past was 10 microns, so is taking some time, but hope it get done well as is the first time i do... as most of the engine


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## Richard Hed (Aug 27, 2020)

Rodrigo Castellanos said:


> Hi Guys!
> today i made my 3th head and was perfect!   decided tap the gig and use the bolts as a pins, and got a lot better results!
> 
> I start to work on my cylinder, having not a lot of tools, decided to use a good eye, rulers, and blades to find the angles and highest spot over the cylinder.  i´m happy with the result, so i start to polish and hone the bore...  my coarse diamond past was 10 microns, so is taking some time, but hope it get done well as is the first time i do... as most of the engine
> ...


Luv ur techniques.  I always sez, "Machining is making tools to make tools to make a part".


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## SteveT (Aug 28, 2020)

Rodrigo Castellanos said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Well, my first head went bad, as holes were out of measure, so after starting another, i decided to make a carrier stop, and it worked well,  now i can make grooves or parting with confidence...
> 
> ...


Hi Rodrigo
Great job on the anodising. What dye did you use?
I spent some 2 weeks last year experimenting with anodising with mixed results. Part of the problem was not being able to get de smut solution in the UK.
I tried commercial red dye  but the colour was more orange than red and it was very expensive. RIT dye was much better and cheaper but the red fades in direct sunlight. I had test samples outside for several months. Commercial dye kept its colour, RIT red faded after a couple of months. RIT blue and black kept their colour quite well.
Keep chucking
Steve T


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 28, 2020)

SteveT said:


> Hi Rodrigo
> Great job on the anodising. What dye did you use?
> I spent some 2 weeks last year experimenting with anodising with mixed results. Part of the problem was not being able to get de smut solution in the UK.
> I tried commercial red dye  but the colour was more orange than red and it was very expensive. RIT dye was much better and cheaper but the red fades in direct sunlight. I had test samples outside for several months. Commercial dye kept its colour, RIT red faded after a couple of months. RIT blue and black kept their colour quite well.
> ...




Hi Steve!

Thanks!  

As any other part of the hobbies, there is a lot of trial and error,  i been using cloth dyes with good results BUT, they only work fine in the Blue-Green range... Reads are a real pain to use or simple useless....  even black....
I found an Anodizing Company in USA who sells good dyes. 
Anodizing Kits - Anodizing Dyes - Page 1 - Caswell Inc
i still having trouble with gold colors, even with this dye.....   seems to needs to be very precise about time and amps to work... for that head, i use 300mAh for about 80 minutes.

Cheers Rodrigo


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Aug 28, 2020)

Hi Guys!

Some more work done today.... seems to be just a little, but is impressive how long it takes to make some parts!!  i made my carburetor (needle missing) and start to turn my piston....    
i start to lap my cylinder with diamond paste, starting with 10 microns as i don´t have coarse valve paste...  seems to be ok, but once y started the piston...... seems to have a moderated taper....  maybe 0.002" or 0.003" larger at bottom.  

i really don´t know if this engine will run at all, but at least, i know that my tools (lathe and Mill) are in the range for something this size.....   for sure something bigger will be imposible to handle.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Sep 5, 2020)

Hi Guys!

not much progress this week:
i try my first piston and went wrong...  the inner bore was not deep enough, so when i drill the pinhole, the drill hit the top and got some flexibility... so i made a new one...  
and today had a couple hours free so i decided to try my cornod


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## dethrow55 (Sep 6, 2020)

looking good been watching your build.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi guys!

Today i lap my piston and made a little more work over the crankshaft.   just missing some little parts and see if all fits good!


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Sep 10, 2020)

Hi Guys!

Some more work done today!
Finished my crankshaft what i almost put on the thrash, as being made from a bolt, was a little short, but i gave it a try and made the knurled part a little more short as per plan. so i compensate in the prop drive.  it worked!
I even made the contra piston, and cylinder seems to have a nice small tapper, as when install the contra piston from top, it has a nice tight fit and it gets more soft if push it thru the cylinder.... 
having all internal parts done, i assembled the engine to see if all is aligned.... yes!    The piston is a little loose  so i will heat it tomorrow and see if it grows enough....



































so... Missing parts:  Spinner, carb nut, compression screw-tommy bar, and anodize head and spinner.


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Sep 18, 2020)

Hi Guys!

Now we have an engine!  after making 3 heads, 2 pistons, and having a lot of fun, all parts are complete...  not very happy with my compression screw and my drive plate (is very small)  at least, i can feel the engine!  seems to have good compression, after 3 drops of oil in the exhaust and some flips, the contrapiston moves nicely and seems to have no leaks....  
let´s wait until weekend and see if it runs.
Maybe is time to anodize the head and reanodize or make a new spinner.


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## Tim Wescott (Sep 18, 2020)

As to dressing it up -- if it runs, it's pretty, no matter how scratched, dented, lumpy, or asymmetrical.  If it doesn't run, it's a paperweight.  Get it running!  Then make another one with all the lessons learned from this one.


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## Nibby2226 (Sep 19, 2020)

Fingers crossed.  Mine took a long time to start the first time - mainly because I had no experience of starting small model engines.  I added a hex nut on the crank so I could turn it over with a cordless drill.  Eventually, I got a "pop" and the characteristic smell of burnt fuel. A few minutes later, it burst in to life, blue smoke,oil,noise and..... A big grin, first engine built and it runs! (Note all other family members / friends will be completely unimpressed)
I found the following was good...
Back off the compression, close the needle valve then open 1.5 turns, one or two drops of fuel in the exhaust port and be careful not to flood it with fuel.
Good luck


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## dethrow55 (Sep 19, 2020)

nice job well done


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## Rodrigo Castellanos (Sep 20, 2020)

Hi Guys!

today gave it a try.....   and have partial success, starting from small breaths to short bursts....   after 2 hours of flipping, my arm was tired.    
here a video of that...



after unmount the engine to clean it up, i decided to check my internal pressure blowing some air and noticed a good lead in the backplate....  will make some gaskets and see if goes better.


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## Tim Wescott (Sep 20, 2020)

Woot woot!  It runs!  OK -- maybe it only barely runs, but this is your first engine, right?

I'm not a super-duper expert with diesels, but when you get it to the point where it runs _at all_ -- like where you are at about 3:10 -- then it's time to stop messing with the compression and start working the needle valve to see if you can do better.  If it were a glow engine (which I _do_ have experience with) I'd say it was adjusted just a bit too lean, such that multiple flips were getting it primed after a fashion, and then it'd run out that prime.

A bad crankcase seal wouldn't help -- if the leak is just the right size it'd let the thing run but not very fast.  Kinda like it's running in your video, when it's running.


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## scottyp (Sep 20, 2020)

Nice work, I think Tim is on to something and your arm is going to be sore tomorrow!


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## stackerjack (Sep 21, 2020)

An excellent job you've done there, keep at it, I'm sure you'll have it running soon. 
Check your fuel line for air leaks. Is the connection to the spraybar leakproof? Is your fuel filter leaking?
If the fuel tubing is old, it may have become brittle and not sealing properly. Are there any bubbles in your fuel line?
Check your backplate again, and try the new gasket.
Best of luck,
Jack


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## andrewh (Sep 21, 2020)

Hi, Rodrigo
Well done! This must be classed as a triumph!

I an a diesel freak enthusiast for more than 60 years, and your video is so real that I wish I could lean in to help!

As Tim Westcott says, you have the compression almost exactly right, but need to open the needle valve a little till it runs more steadily.

A triumph anyway!
I am delighted that you are using the correct hand to start your engine with!
My habit is to have the prop with a blade at about 8 o clock when it comes to compression, and flip across the bottom of the engine (finishing up well clear of the running prop)
9 x 4 tornado prop?  Good choice.  Generally the larger the better when you are learning the habits and settings for a new engine


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## Nibby2226 (Sep 21, 2020)

Mine was like this - try raising the fuel tank a bit / opening the needle valve gradually it sounds a bit lean.  A leak in the crankcase won't help either as it will reduce the "pull" of fuel in to the carb...


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