# What Mill



## TonyM (Jul 3, 2017)

So I decide that a small mill of some sort is in order. 
The only choice I have is either an attachment to the Warco 240 or a small stand alone. 
I would be grateful for any insight into the pros and cons to help me make a decision.


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## purpleknif (Jul 3, 2017)

I love my XJ9512 From Big Dog Machines. A lot sturdier that an X2 .


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## deverett (Jul 3, 2017)

Your budget and space available are two things that only you can know.

Years ago before the advent of  hobby sized milling machines, the main machine tool was the lathe although shapers were also popular.  All milling was done on the lathe using a vertical slide and many fine models were made with this basic set-up.  With the availability of small milling machines at reasonable cost, more and more hobby machinists invested in one.  

Convenience of use is a big plus.  A milling machine will be a lot more rigid than a vertical slide which means that heavier cuts can be taken, speeding up the job and also a better finish should be obtainable.  There will be a greater working envelope so larger jobs can be accommodated.  It is easy to take the job from the lathe and set it up on the mill leaving the lathe free for a different job; if the milling job is done with a vertical slide, it has to be removed to be able to use the lathe again which means that forward planning of operations could become very important to avoid repeated setting up and braking down of the vertical slide.  It can be done but from a personal point of view having started out with a vertical slide and now owning a vertical mill, I would never go back to the dark ages of having to use a vertical slide for milling jobs.  Many small hobby sized mills are mill-drills so if space is at a premium, the drilling machine (if you have one) could be sacrificed and when sold on this can go towards the cost of the mill.

No doubt others will have different thoughts and relate other benefits for the stand alone mill, but this will give you some initial food for thought.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## bazmak (Jul 3, 2017)

I agree with all the above.I bought the sx2 and it does everything i want
+ its small enough to move around.Done quite a few mods including
DROs,gas strut etc.A beautiful little machine,far superior to a vertical slide
And i got rid of my small bench drill


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## Wizard69 (Jul 3, 2017)

TonyM said:


> So I decide that a small mill of some sort is in order.
> The only choice I have is either an attachment to the Warco 240 or a small stand alone.
> I would be grateful for any insight into the pros and cons to help me make a decision.



Unfortunately I have not gotten a mill for the home shop yet.   At work we have a Bridgeport, which most people don't have space for.   The problem is there is a wide array of smaller than a Bridgeport mills out there so it might help to understand what you mean by a small Stand Alone.   

From my perspective you would want to get the largest mill that can fit in the available space and within budget.    That would give you the flexibility to handle a wide array of projects.    There is however a qualification here, sometimes a mill can be too large if you are focused on ether extremely small.   Palm sized engines, watch making and dozens of other interests really don't need a huge mill.    So you do need to fit the mill to the way you intend to use the mill.

Probably the next thing to consider is to decide if CNC is in your future.   Some mils are more widely adapted than others so if you want to go this route converting one that has had many conversions already done is a good idea.

The Taig is the smallest mill I could suggest to anybody.   After that most of your choices are imported Asian machines from China or Taiwan.   As such you need to look for a local importer of such machinery as the stuff is commonly private labeled.    A local supplier should make getting parts and tooling a bit easier.   In the end though you need to make sure it fits the space you have.


By the way there is one option not many consider anymore, that is making your own milling machine.   It is still a viable solution though it might not save you the money it did in the past.


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## TonyM (Jul 4, 2017)

Thanks guys.
Budget is 800GBP though could stretch it a bit if there is a big difference in value. The machine is purely for model engine work.
The attachment for the warco is not the basic vertical slide but this one.  http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/302975-lathe-milling-attachment-combination-machine.html. The type of mill is SIEG SX2
About 50% price difference so I want to be sure that the benchtop type is worth spending the extra or will the combo perform just as well. 
I suppose what I am really asking is the benchtop mill any more rigid / usable than the turning my Warco240 into a combo. Are there any disadvantages in making the lathe into a combo. 
Space is not a problem as I am lucky enough to have a basement. Although its a good idea for some, Making my own is also out of the question. Its bad enough sourcing materials for modelling let alone machinery.
Purpleknif.   Big dog machines appear to be finished. The website says closed.


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## bazmak (Jul 4, 2017)

Again i would reiterate that a stand alone mill is far superior
If you combo up the lathe you will soon tire of setting up
When you want the lathe you are set up to mill and vice versa
The  sieg sx2 or equivalent is your best bet.And get the fixed column
,i got tired of reading of stiffening plate and epoxy granite mods
to the swivel column


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## Niels Abildgaard (Jul 4, 2017)

This one is the one I bougth and have never regretted neither model or seller:

https://www.hbm-machines.com/produc...etaalfreesmachinesssub/hbm-bf-25-freesmachine

http://i.imgur.com/I0Cvetp.jpg


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## grapegro (Jul 4, 2017)

Hello Tony, I bought an Optimum BL16v and fitted a dro system to it. Beautifully made. Also the BL20v would be worth looking at. They are a German machine but mine was made in Taiwan, the same high quality as the German unit.
Norm


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## deverett (Jul 4, 2017)

grapegro said:


> Hello Tony, I bought an Optimum BL16v and fitted a dro system to it. Beautifully made. Also the BL20v would be worth looking at. They are a German machine but mine was made in Taiwan, the same high quality as the German unit.
> Norm


Well, I hope your Optimum machine is better than my German Wabeco mill.  Most disappointing load of junk I've ever spent my money on.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## Cogsy (Jul 4, 2017)

I have a combo lathe and mill, as well as a stand alone mill. I have never used the mill portion of my lathe, not even once (I got the lathe cheap which is the only reason I got a combo). The amount of parts that include a milling operation in between lathe operations, or vice versa, is huge and I would not like to have to change the setup of the machine every time I switched between lathe and mill. I know it's only a hobby and our time isn't really 'valued' but it would get very tedious, very fast.


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## rodw (Jul 4, 2017)

I honestly did not realise what a terrible machine my 3 in one Lathe/Mill/Drill was until I bought a separate lathe and mill. I bought the Seig SX3 and find it does everything I need. I threw out my drill press to make room for it and have never missed it.


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## Wizard69 (Jul 5, 2017)

TonyM said:


> Thanks guys.
> Budget is 800GBP though could stretch it a bit if there is a big difference in value. The machine is purely for model engine work.
> The attachment for the warco is not the basic vertical slide but this one.  http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/302975-lathe-milling-attachment-combination-machine.html.


You couldn't give me such an attachment!!!    Well maybe if I was free to use it elsewhere but never attached to a lathe like I imagine this one is attached.


> The type of mill is SIEG SX2


Lots of people use that version.    As others have said make sure it is a solid column mill and not one that pivots the whole vertical column.   If you have room and budget do consider the next size up which would be the X3 or the equivalent from other manufactures.   

There are several manufactures that are being imported (at least in the sates) so going SIEG isn't absolutely required.   I'd go with the machine offering the best bang for the buck when it comes time to buy.


> About 50% price difference so I want to be sure that the benchtop type is worth spending the extra or will the combo perform just as well.


Yes it will be worth it.   To start with a lathe doesn't have a suitable milling table but rather a cross slide.   So rigidity and set up freedom take a hike with any milling attachment on any lathe.   Beyond that there is the well known problem of having the machine setup for a milling operation when you need to do something with the lathe.

Consider for example if you get a small indexing head to do gears or whatever.   How would you set that up on a lathes cross slide?    Imagine if that indexing head required the use of a dead center, even for very small work you simply don't have the room.


> I suppose what I am really asking is the benchtop mill any more rigid / usable than the turning my Warco240 into a combo. Are there any disadvantages in making the lathe into a combo.


There are a Ton of disadvantages which is why most people suggest going in another direction.     The only time they might really work out is if somebody shop resided in a closet and even then I'd suggest to them to find the room for a mill.

To look at this another way, A tiny Milling machine like TAIG would be more flexible than a lathe attachment.   


> Space is not a problem as I am lucky enough to have a basement. Although its a good idea for some, Making my own is also out of the question. Its bad enough sourcing materials for modelling let alone machinery.


Yeah, right now that is a practice from the old days and only pursued these days by guys looking for a challenge.    I just offered the idea up due to it  still making sense for some users.    These days a Chinese machine is often seen as a kit of parts anyways so you still end up doing some building/refurb/adjustments.


> Purpleknif.   Big dog machines appear to be finished. The website says closed.


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## TonyM (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks for that Wizard. That really helps. 
It all makes good sense the more I think about it. The saddle is loosely attached to the lathe bed and is quite different to a milling table which is usually dovetails with an adjustable gib strip. 
I had not even thought about setting up an indexing head and centre on a lathe compared to a mill.
I agree about selecting the best bang for buck. I did exactly that with the lathe. Started looking at the mini then the 180 before finally buying the 240 which cost a lot more than originally planned leaving the mill budget a bit tight.


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