# AMA25LV Milling Machine



## Omnimill (Feb 13, 2010)

Still can't decide what Mill to get. :-[ Anyone have any experience of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ee-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1#ht_1478wt_941

Similar price to an X3 but with a bigger table and better travel?!

Vic.


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## Paolo (Feb 13, 2010)

Hi Vic
It seames to be similar to mine...."Optimum Bf 20"...Nice machine...!
Just a little cons...the plastic gear..so you have to be very careful entering on the piece and at right deep...





Best regards
Paolo


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## John S (Feb 13, 2010)

Nice machine, seem well made but two points I am not happy with.
One is the motor drive gear which is either brass or plastic and does shear easily.
Second is the Z feed handle mounted at the top of the column which is tiring to use.

John S.


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## Omnimill (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks for your thoughts Guys. I don't live too far from Warco so I may pay them a visit as they also sell a similar looking range of mills.

Vic.


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## pete (Feb 14, 2010)

Omnimill,
I have that head bolted on the back side of my lathe, Supposedly, It's built by Weiss machine tools in Nanjing China, I found out thru Bigbore that Weiss may just be an office in China and have tools built by manufacturers and badged with their name, John Stevenson may be able to verify this or not. If it were me, I'd buy one with the R8 taper. You'll save money on tooling costs. So far I haven't used mine yet but I also own a Sieg C6 with the mini mill head and the Weiss milling head is light years ahead of the Sieg. This of course is reflected in the extra cost.

Pete


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## Omnimill (Feb 14, 2010)

Apart from the plastic gears it seems that X and Y leadscrews may be plain Metric thread rather than the more usual Acme form? I've seen some reasonable prices on Ballscrews though so maybe that is an option to consider.

Vic.


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## pete (Feb 14, 2010)

Vic,
I don't know for sure but I ordered my lathe and mill with imperial screws, I think? Warco offer this machine with either imperial or metric leadscrews and dials. I was taught imperial measurement in school and I'm getting too old to change now. If? This is a plain non acme screw supplied machine then it would be fairly easy to buy screws and nuts from any good industrial supply and with a bit of lathe and mill work fix that detail But I really doubt it comes with plain screws. Tho I have been wrong before as my wife likes to remind me. Due to costs/size/weight limitations I've had to get and sometimes modify equipment to suit my shop.

Pete


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## Twmaster (Feb 14, 2010)

Any idea who the actual manufacturer is?


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## John S (Feb 14, 2010)

I was under the impression it is Weiss however Syil is saying that Weiss is a trading company.

I can't truthfully comment so won't, other than to say I'd trust Syil as far as I could throw them, they spend far too much time on the web badmouthing everyone else instead of sorting their own support problems out.

However I will ring China tomorrow just to satisfy myself.

John S.


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## pete (Feb 14, 2010)

John,
My info for Weiss being just an office came thru a member here and was in an email from Precision Matthews. They seem to really know their stuff, But??? I'd be interested to know for sure.

Pete


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## NickG (Feb 15, 2010)

Hi Vic,

I bought this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XJ20-Milling-Machine-from-Amadeal-Ltd-Now-in-stock_W0QQitemZ360232523457QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item53df8816c1  about a year and a half ago with another guy from our club. It was quite a bit cheaper than this at the time. The amadeal guy seems good to deal with, the other guy that bought the same machine had problems with his but got good service when he went back to the dealer. I probably had the same problems but couldn't be bothered to go back as I just thought it's cheap and chinese so they are probably all the same. He reckons he got his sorted out though.

Personally, If I was to go back in time, I would have searched around for a good quality, old, second hand machine but that's only because I have the space now. The machine I got had relatively large capacity and doesn't take up that much space on the bench - front to back is pretty compact. It also has a bit of weight behind it and a powerful variable speed motor which is a bit coarse but does the trick. I haven't sheared any gears yet but I probably haven't given it a great deal to do. It's giving me decent results but the quality difference compared to my 45 year old harrison lathe is vast.

Another bad point about mine is the handwheel at the top which john mentioned. Especially difficult to raise the head as it's a lot of weight being lifted. I put one hand under the head to give it a helping hand as it just feels like there's so much strain on the geared handwheel.

The feed screws are also very fine, which allows for getting a good finish but is frustrating at times. I never thought it would bother me but a power feed would be good. A good point though is that it has tapered gip strips and the table can be adjusted to give a very smooth action. In fact, I never even adjusted mine at all, am using it straight from the box.

Some adjustment / setup time, a DRO and a power feed would transform the machine. 

If you are hell bent on going for a new machine I'd probably go for an x3 variant though, they seem more robust and some better features such as having the z travel hand wheel right in front of you.

Nick


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## Omnimill (Feb 15, 2010)

I went to the Warco showroom today and had a look at the WM-18: http://www.warco.co.uk/WM-18-Variable-speed-mill-D98781848F.aspx# and the WM-16: http://www.warco.co.uk/WM16-Variable-Speed-Mill-C06E15C340.aspx.

I had a look under both tables and they looked to have non Acme leadscrews as far as I could tell. They looked well finished and the bigger one seemed quite solid with a good table size. The WM-16 is only just big enough for me so I expect the even smaller tabled X3 will be too small but I reserve judgement until I see one up close. The WM-18 fits the bill, except for the, er bill  it's currently £1,250.00.

Vic.


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## NickG (Feb 17, 2010)

I know somebody that bought this and is very happy with it:
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X3-Mill

Table size and travel doesn't look too bad.

can also get here:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-SIEG-Axminster-SIEG-X3-Mill-Drill-377295.htm

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-SIEG-Axminster-SIEG-X3-Super-Tilt-Head-Mill-Drill-377659.htm

I don't think I'd fancy paying this money for one of these machines to be honest. For a little more you could have this from warco? http://www.warco.co.uk/VMC-Turret-Mill-C7DAEB08E0.aspx


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## Omnimill (Feb 17, 2010)

I think I've looked at most machines now from £800 to £1250, at least on the net. I'm planning on taking a trip to Axminster Tools at High Wycombe to see a few up close as soon as I can. Given how cold it is in the garage I'm not in a desperate rush to buy anything at the moment! I did see this which is very sadly well over budget: http://www.lathes.co.uk/advertphoto/100113sixis/ Nice or what!

Vic.


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## John S (Feb 17, 2010)

Omnimill  said:
			
		

> I did see this which is very sadly well over budget: http://www.lathes.co.uk/advertphoto/100113sixis/ Nice or what!
> 
> Vic.



No quill feed................

John S.


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## Twmaster (Feb 17, 2010)

Have any of you fingered out who made the machine in the OP?


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## John S (Feb 17, 2010)

In a word NO ;D

It's very convoluted, Weiss is a trading company and they sub con to two contractors, these same contractors also sub con to Optimim but Optimum are not strictly a trading house as they do manufacture some parts.

Where it gets sticky is that 'probably' the directors of the sub con houses are the same as Weiss and Optimum.

Very very grey areas.

John S.


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## Twmaster (Feb 17, 2010)

Loverly. Thanks John.


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## Omnimill (Feb 18, 2010)

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> No quill feed................
> 
> John S.



True, but given the quality etc I could live with that! 

Vic.


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## NickG (Feb 19, 2010)

agreed, that was a beauty!


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## Omnimill (Feb 19, 2010)

I went to Axminster Tools today and had a good look at an X3. Quite a nice machine, and perhaps a bit better (as others have said) thought out having the Z motion controlled by a handwheel at the front of the machine. For it's size i was quite impressed with it. I'm just not sure it will be rigid enough. Only real way to tell is to try one I suppose :-\

Vic.


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## xr6t (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi,

I have just purchased the same machine. (See "New Toy")

Here in Australia it is sold as the Optimum BF20L Vario, cost including tax is $1,540 this includes the very well built stand.

I was surprised to see that they have updated the switch panel to a touch pad membrane type, very impressive. The control panel has a the name "Machinetech, Germany" on it.

The only thing that I am now considering is there a conversion kit to change the plastic gears? Although the sales people at Sieg when they were trying to sell me the X3 said that this was not a bad feature, stopped amateurs like me wrecking something in the machine more expensive.

The M10 drawbar is proving to be a problem with tooling, most of the MT2 stuff seems to have 3/8" UNC thread.

Cheers

KenM


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## Maryak (Feb 19, 2010)

xr6t  said:
			
		

> The M10 drawbar is proving to be a problem with tooling, most of the MT2 stuff seems to have 3/8" UNC thread.



Ken,

Some of my tooling has 1/2" thread and some have 3/8 - M10. I got around this by buying threaded rod to match and using 4 nuts, (2 locked to set the length and 2 locked at the top for tightening and undoing the drawbar).

Hope this helps.

Best Regards
Bob


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## xr6t (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for that Bob.

Again the simplest solutions are obscured thru the complications of my brain matter.

Cheers

KenM


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## Omnimill (Feb 20, 2010)

It's a shame there isn't some kind of standard for draw bars. I settled on buying MT3 collets with an M12 drawbar thread on the basis that if I then bought a tool with say M10 or 3/8" Whitworth I could easily open it up to M12 so I only needed the one drawbar. I've only bought one tool that needed this doing so far though - an MT3 flycutter with a 3/8" thread.

Vic.


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## swivelhead (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi
It looks like the AMA25LV is made by Yangzhou Real Bull Machinery Ltd in China.
Supplied in the UK by Amadeal, Chester and a few others, priced around £785 plus
delivery.
Quality of Real Bull machines is as good if not better than many other far east imports. I have a mill and lathe made by them and have had no problems so far.

Tony


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## Twmaster (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for the info Tony. It looks like the same machine is sold here in the US by Grizzly as Model G704 @$950US.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704

I'm looking to buy a new mill/drill once I get situated in my new home. I've pretty much settled on a Rong-Fu type m/d. I'm looking at several models from different vendors.


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## xr6t (Feb 21, 2010)

:bow:Bob (Maryak) Thanks for the tip on the drawbar problem

I had, for me, a great day and am quite chuffed with the success of the operation today. ;D

Whilst not being able to use the two nuts locking technique due to the desighn of the machine, it gave me sufficient idea to make a drawbar anyway. Thm:

Like you suggested, I went to my local hardware store and purchased a length of 3/8" UNC Rod, cut it to match the OEM drawbar, I then machined a piece of steel rod the same dimensions as the bit (not sure what to call it) that rests on the bearing, threaded it to screw down into position and cross drilled it, tapped a thread and inserted a brass screw to stop it going anywhere. Then using the drill chuck in the mill with an end mill, squared off the top for spanner and presto, I can now use the collet set up I bought. 

Thanks again, Karma has gone your way.

KenM


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## Maryak (Feb 21, 2010)

Ken,

Glad it worked for you. 

Best Regards
Bob


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## Florian (Feb 23, 2010)

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> No quill feed................
> 
> John S.



But for these machines you can find milling heads with quill feed. (As this machine is not being provided anymore you will have to look around but once in a while you can find them. 

Florian


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## John S (Feb 23, 2010)

Florian  said:
			
		

> But for these machines you can find milling heads with quill feed. (As this machine is not being provided anymore you will have to look around but once in a while you can find them.
> 
> Florian



So you pay top dollar for a obscure model machine, then wait 10 years to find a part that you may have to pay 1/2 the machine price to obtain?

Sorry not for me, when there are other machines just as universal with more chance of getting old parts.

As an example look at the Tom Senior mill, how many are out there with fixed head quills compared to the movable quill, then compare costs of the machines and the moveable heads just on their own.
I'll bet there are many users of fixed head machines that would like to change but can't due to cost or availability.

Last query is who's to say this machine is in decent condition as regards wear of slides etc?

John S.


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## Blogwitch (Feb 23, 2010)

I have to agree fully with John on his reply.

It is very nice having old iron, but only if you have the cash and means to get it back to original, and keep it there, otherwise you can find that you are fighting with a worn out, substandard machine.

I have been there with an old Myford, and lastly my old well loved Atlas lathe, but it was a struggle over many years getting it up to the specifications that now comes as standard on modern day machines. My new Chinese lathe and mill far outperform my old machines now that I have tweaked them to my own settings.

When it came to what John said about obtaining parts, I spent ages trawling the internet trying to get a replacement head assembly for my Atlas and managed to find one eventually thru a spare parts importer. It was rather expensive by the time it was shipped over from the US.

I was gobsmacked last night as I was reading thru John's website, and came across a chap selling a second hand quick change gearbox for a Myford, for 500 squid (or lots of bucks), you can go out and buy a brand new lathe or miller for around that price. But I suppose someone will buy it, just to complete their jigsaw puzzle, and have a bit of boast factor as well.


Blogs


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## John S (Feb 23, 2010)

Blogs, 
That seems to be the going price on a Myford screwcutting box, bear in mind they are over a thousand pounds new.

then add into this it can't do metric threads so you need a complete new quadrant and set of gears.

Whilst this is set up you loose the fine feed and it takes longer to swap over than just shuffling some gears on a non gearbox model.

When I had my Myford I always wanted one, eventually I found one, fitted, it bought all the extras for it and from that day on I rued the day I'd bought it.

OK a pain to keep swapping gears but a bigger pain to keep swapping from English to metric, to fine feed to a special and back again.

If you only cut imperial and stick to what's in the box then they are good, first time you need something special then you are jumping thru hoops.

John S.


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