# Hoglet build



## Trialnterror (Jun 6, 2016)

I've started the Hoglet I've started on the crank webs.
I've machined everything perfect except the final turn to dia. 
It calls for R1.563 (3.126 dia) I'm at 3.108&#65533;&#65533; 

Question, do you think this is a big issue? Or when I build the rings just adjust them to fit?


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## ozzie46 (Jun 6, 2016)

It's only .018, just leave extra on the rings.

  Ron


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## Trialnterror (Jun 6, 2016)

Crank web complete


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## RManley (Jun 7, 2016)

Got to love a Hoglet build, keep the photos coming 

R


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## Trialnterror (Jun 11, 2016)

Question? When parting off the ring is it best to part right on dimension or leave some material and re-chuck the part and face it to dim? I haven't parted a lot of material?


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## Trialnterror (Jun 11, 2016)

Oh my boring bar is chatter city ? Can't seem to get a smooth cut? I ended up using a endmill ground into a boring bar? (It's hss and the boring bar is carbide is the the issue? Material is  aluminum bronze )

I still have the question above too about parting off the ring?


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## Jasonb (Jun 11, 2016)

Leave a little bit to clean up later, parting tools don't often gove a good finish and can wander a bit


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## Trialnterror (Jun 12, 2016)

Rings done need to find source for gears?


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## Trialnterror (Jun 12, 2016)

When assembling the rings the instructions say "Machine the bronze wheels for 
about 0.003" interference and heat them up to about 450 degrees F&#8232;for maybe an hour to assemble them. There will be some distor- tion and probably a little runout after they cool off, so allow for some finish turning on a mandrel. (Check out Dwight Giles method in Model Engine Builder #8) "

Well I didn't leave extra to put back in the lathe, would it be better to press them in to avoid any distortion? 

Has anyone here assembled these before? (Especially having them to size and assembled them by heating the rings up?)


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## 10K Pete (Jun 12, 2016)

Does it reference to air, or another precision part? Answer that before trying
to hold some tight tolerance.

Pete


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## Jasonb (Jun 13, 2016)

As the webs only make contact at the two ends there is a chance that as the ring cools or the web pressed in you will make the ring slightly oval shaped. 

A lot will depend on how much of an interferance you have left but even if you did not allow for a finish cut at most you will only be taking a couple of thou off if they nee dcleaning up so that much undersize won't be the end of the world.

I pressed mine in to slightly warmed rings.


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## Trialnterror (Jun 13, 2016)

Thanks Jason,
         would you use Loctite by chance also or just interference fit 
         (Guess it couldn't hurt?)


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## Jasonb (Jun 13, 2016)

As you say a little drop won't hurt


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## Trialnterror (Jun 19, 2016)

I posted this on a new thread but I think I should stick to one thread....

How to accurately machine  opposing angles 

I've been machining as a Hobbie for prob 4 years. Everything I have learned has been by watching YouTube/--friends at work--/or forums.
That being said.....

I have done a couple engines a really small vtwin (kerzel I believe designed it) 
A little easy steam engine by Mr.Pete222 and now the Hoglet.

I've successfully made the crank webs and flywheels and have attached them.

I am now building the crank case pieces. I have scoured the Internet and forums for accurately machine angles on the crankcase 21° apart from each other and I find zero zilch nothing. I started with cutting out on the bandsaw roughly the shape of the crankcase which I feel now was a mistake. So I started over with 2 pieces of material which I made the same. I then got my 0-0 and started milling out the sides. My next move is to drill and ream the 1/2" hole then pin the hole stand the parts (both pinned together) vertically on a 21° angle block and/or blocks to make 21° then reference off my 1/2" pin subtract .25 to get center? Then that would be my 0-0? I guess I would have to reference the top of the pin and the side to get accurately 0-0?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## Trialnterror (Jun 19, 2016)

Done with the crank webs/flywheels


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## Jasonb (Jun 19, 2016)

I did mine all on the rotary table, clamped the plate to it drilled & reamed the crank hole at 0-0 then offset everything from there. finally rotated table 21degrees and machined one top then rotated the opposite way to do the other top.

That way you just move 2.094 plus half the dia of the cutter you are using


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## Trialnterror (Jun 19, 2016)

Jason do you have any pictures of your setup on the rotary table?
I like the idea!


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## Jasonb (Jun 19, 2016)

I did mine before I started taking in progress photos but this should give you the idea. It makes things a whole lot easier if the crank hole is central to the rotary table as all sizes can be set from that.

Clock the rotary table below the spindle and zero your handwheels or DRO. Clamp your piece of 1/4" plate in position with some sacrificial packing below. In this position drill & ream the 0.500" and 0.375" holes and also do the three holes for the cam follower bracket. The bottom can also be done by moving the Y-axis 0.938 plus half tool diameter.






Now rotate the table to 21 degrees and cut the first top face finishing with the spindle 2.093 plus half tool dia away in the y-axis. Not shown but also do the top return to leave the edge 1.607" 






Now rotate the table the opposite way to 339degrees (360-21) taking up any backlash and make the same two cuts to complete the other side.






Reposition the clamps one at a time making sure the part does not move, you can use the 3/8" hole if a clamp won't fit at the top. Reset rotary table to 0degrees and just mill the two features at the sides.






If you get it right then when the two top plates are fitted it should look something like this






J


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## 10K Pete (Jun 19, 2016)

Very good, Jason!!

Pete


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## Trialnterror (Jun 19, 2016)

Thank you so much!


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## Trialnterror (Jun 20, 2016)

Rotary table work done for crank case part  kudos to Jason!


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## Trialnterror (Jun 20, 2016)

Rotary table work


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## Trialnterror (Jun 20, 2016)

Milling the top


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## Trialnterror (Jun 20, 2016)

Finished this step now back to vise to drill vertical holes


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## Rozlo (Jun 27, 2016)

Very cool.  I've been looking for the plans for this engine for a long time.  Any chance could get a copy from you.  Oh by the way what type of mill are you using?

Thanks
Bill


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## ozzie46 (Jun 27, 2016)

Contact this web site for Model engine Builder Magazine. They will gladly sell you the back issues with the plans. They are issues 10 and 11

http://www.modelenginebuilder.com/



Ron


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## Jasonb (Jun 28, 2016)

Further to Ozzie46 link if you go to the subscribe tab and then carry on as though you want to subscribe this will take you to where you can buy back issues in digital format.


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## Trialnterror (Jul 1, 2016)

Yes it's only 6 bucks for each issue, I think I ended up paying 24 bucks cause the plans reference articles in #7 and #8 the plans are in issues #10 and #11.
It's good to support the magizine because the have really good information that passes on years of experience from other builders. All in which is invaluable to me! 
Here's where I'm at in the project!

I've built all 4 plates for the crankcase base.


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## Trialnterror (Jul 1, 2016)

Top plates milled at an angle, and I have a 6x26 knee mill with a Newall DRO.


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## Rozlo (Jul 11, 2016)

Thanks
Guys I picked up the subscription and got issue 10 and 11.  But looks like I need to get 7 and 8 now.  I'm gathering up the materials now.  I know a guy here in Ohio that made his a twin cam seen the video but would like to see in person.  He just does not want people over at his shop. 
Thanks Again
Keep up the good work


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 11, 2016)

Maybe you can talk him into showing it at the show in Zanesville this October.


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## Trialnterror (Jul 18, 2016)

Working on cylinders, boy that Cast iron sure is dirty!


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## Trialnterror (Jul 18, 2016)

Ready to turn the taper


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## Rozlo (Jul 19, 2016)

Make sure you cover your ways and cleanup very good once your done.  I seen a trick that Keith Fenner did from Turn Wright Machine (YouTube) is he turn his cutter over and ran it in reverse so the chips would go straight down and could be picked up with a vacuum.  Looking great I cant wait to start mine.

Bill


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## Trialnterror (Jul 30, 2016)

I have the cylinder tapered and it's to the mill for drilling holes.


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## Rozlo (Aug 1, 2016)

Doing a great job.  I subscribed to your YouTube Channel, watching the whole series great work.  Makes we want to start putting mine together.


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## Trialnterror (Aug 22, 2016)

I'm a little stumped on building the cam housing. To get the dim on the angles which are 25° each side, the dim to the top where the angle starts is .947 but there are r.063 on each corner. So to find my dim do I take .947 minus the radius of r.063 to get .884 then move from 0,0 to .884 in the Y direction then move the table 25° and make my cut moving the x axis? 

Long story short I'm trying to find the Y dim from 0,0 to make my 25° cut.


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## Trialnterror (Aug 22, 2016)

And this photos  here


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## Trialnterror (Aug 22, 2016)

Or ? If you take half the distance of the .604 dim(.302) and.947 dim and plug into a triangle calculator ok get .898? 

So would the dim be .898? 

Ugh  headache


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## Jasonb (Aug 22, 2016)

Only the two outer corners are radius 0.063. The radius at the top is .147" with its ctr in the middle of the bolt hole that is 0.800" up. This gives the overall height of 0.947.

If you rotate your table 25 degrees then set the cutting edge of the tool 0.894 from the centre point 0,0 it will meet the 0.147" rad at a tangent.

I actually cut these angles and did the cam follower holes all in one setting with the part mounted on teh jig shown on teh drawings with the rotary table mounted vertically. In this case bottom of tool 0.894" above the pivot point.


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## Trialnterror (Aug 22, 2016)

Now I know that I need to rack my mind on how you came up with that dim. And look at the meanings of tangent

Ps 

THANK YOU


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## Jasonb (Aug 22, 2016)

Don't cut any metal yet, that dim is not right, ned to alter my drawing.

J


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## Jasonb (Aug 22, 2016)

Sorry about that, I drew the engine when I was learning Alibre and just spotted a mistake.

New dimension below of 0.872" I had the slope at 21deg not 25deg.

Also included part of the modeling drawing, I have added a green circle 0.294" dia  (0.147R) and extended one of the slopes with a green line. When that green line just touches the edge of teh circle it is said to be tangental to teh circle.


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## gbritnell (Aug 22, 2016)

I did an AutoCad layout and got the same thing as Jason. 
The drawing is improperly done. You would never dimension to a curved surface from the datum point. The radius from the center of the center hole should have been spelled out (.147) but it would have been just as easy to add the .872 dimension. 
gbritnell 

View attachment HOGLET LAYOUT 2.pdf


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## Trialnterror (Aug 22, 2016)

Thanks I've been racking my brain on that. Now I want to learn how to do this, but I guess it'd be easier to enter it in autocad


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## Trialnterror (Sep 2, 2016)

I'm on a little break while I move my 6x26 mill out and my newly purchased Bridgeport in. I need to find a 30" newall scale though and I'm taking the sino (uniq) 2 axis DRO off and installing my newall DRO 3 axis


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## Trialnterror (Dec 3, 2016)

Half way done with the cam housing, turned down the fixture so I can bore the holes in the housing.


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## Trialnterror (Dec 3, 2016)

Upside down pics:fan: I even rotated this one


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## Cogsy (Dec 3, 2016)

Trialnterror said:


> Upside down pics:fan: I even rotated this one


 
I'm going to guess you're using an iPhone or iPad to take your pics - they are very stubborn as to which way is 'up' for their pictures. Try holding the device so the 'home' button is to the right and your pics should be right way up.


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## Trialnterror (Dec 4, 2016)

Cogsy said:


> I'm going to guess you're using an iPhone or iPad to take your pics - they are very stubborn as to which way is 'up' for their pictures. Try holding the device so the 'home' button is to the right and your pics should be right way up.



Yes both! iPad and iPhone! Thanks I'll do that!

Look at that it wants the home button on the bottom? Weird?


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## Trialnterror (Dec 11, 2016)

I measured the cam housing dim I was off by .020 so....

I've been racking my brain going crazy with the z axis dimensions. I'd move the knee according to the dro to cut a specific dimension and it'd be off .020 some times and others it be on! I tore into the spherosyn
scale and found that the scale was bent which threw the reader head off by .005 so I readjusted the reader head and used my extra 36" scale temporarily to test out the knee and it works perfectly! 

Wow what a headache trying to figure this out! 
Time to try and warranty the scale!

Hopefully now this week I'll get back on the project


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## Trialnterror (Dec 19, 2016)

I have a serious question? I'm trying to redo my cam housing and there are 3 holes @ 1/2" (R.250) how does a machinist go about machining these holes? I was trying to use an 1/2" endmill
And when I go down an inch it's seems ok but the endmill is an inch cutting surface if I go any further the hole goes out of round and at an inch if I put an dowel pin in it isn't exactly 1/2"?

So would you drill 1/64 under 1/2" (31/64?) then ream ? Or are these dim even that critical and a 1/2" drill bit would suffice? 

This seems petty but I struggle with this?


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## Jasonb (Dec 19, 2016)

Can't quite remember how I did mine but probably drilled it out in a couple of stages to 7/16" and then plunged down with a 1/2" 2-flute milling cutter


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## Trialnterror (Dec 19, 2016)

Jasonb said:


> Can't quite remember how I did mine but probably drilled it out in a couple of stages to 7/16" and then plunged down with a 1/2" 2-flute milling cutter



I tried all different kinds of ways and doing this works (7/16" the plung with 1/2" 2 flute)

Along with drilling to 31/64 then ream, all which may be not that critical anyway?


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## Trialnterror (Jan 15, 2017)

Well I finished the cam housing. It's not perfect but it will have to do if I don't move on top the next part I'll never finish. Things I've learned along the way.
1. Pre drill hole then plunge with slot drill (which in US is a two flute endmill from the info I've researched) or with a three flute high angle endmill (which is what I used and it worked well.
2. When finding location of holes on the housing the first dim is laid out, but the second is by degrees (which I've never done before) so example I set up in my small 4" rotary table so I was exactly center then moved to .895 then moved my table to 29°, center drilled, step drilled to 1/64" under 1/4" then reamed 1/4" this worked out great. I was proud of myself for actually doing this! (Hopefully I did it correctly??? )
3. Learned how to cut a radius!
I'll post some pics


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## Trialnterror (Jan 15, 2017)

Here's the cam housing


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## Trialnterror (Jan 15, 2017)

Oh look I kept the home button to the right and the pictures are loaded right side up!!!!:thumbup:


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## Trialnterror (Jan 16, 2017)

Cover for the cam housing


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## Rozlo (Jan 16, 2017)

Very cool.  Ive been following your build on here and YouTube I hope you post some more videos.  Looking great.


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## Trialnterror (Jan 25, 2017)

(I've been searching for 3 days now, I found it a week ago put cannot now.)
I am looking for the dimension to place the mill in the center of the flank radius relative to the rotary table for cutting the camshaft.
I'm going to make two shafts, one three lobe like the drawing shows and this is what I'm asking for the dim on. And the other is a four lobe cam by Clarence (he sent me a drawing although I don't know that flank radius center dim relative to the RT either.

Once I have that dim for the three lobe, is there a set start here for the top lobe say that would be 0° and cut all the way around to XXX° just as an example. Then to start the cut for the next lobe put your rotary table on XXX° then move at 4° increments to XXX° Then on to the third cam start here END here.
I hope all this makes sense. I did search for days...

I need to learn the math to find the center of the flank radius relative to the center of the cam and the 3RD


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## Trialnterror (Jan 25, 2017)

Looks like I found it but it's in metric (scratching head) will it be precise enough if I convert it to inches? http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23303
???


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## Trialnterror (Jan 25, 2017)

Does this look right?


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## Jasonb (Jan 25, 2017)

Flank radius less the base radius will give you how far to offset the work from the spindle.

0.400 - 0.168 = 0.232"

You only really need to move one axis rather than the two in your drawing but it will give the same result as 0.232" is the diagonal distance you get by moving 0.202 and 0.112.

Those metric sizes in the other thread are for a different engine!


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## Trialnterror (Jan 25, 2017)

So if I move the cutter .232 and the swing on the boring head is 0.8" 

Has anyone wrote down start and stop angles for each of the 3 lobes? If not I'm sure I can figure it out..... Hopefully....:/


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## Jasonb (Jan 25, 2017)

I think each cam needs 248.4 degrees of cut so you should be able to work it out from that. teh 0.4 is not worth worrying about so 62 cuts of 4degrees each.


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## Trialnterror (Jan 25, 2017)

Awesome thanks, I should be able to get it, thank you so much for your help and knowledge!


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## Trialnterror (Feb 6, 2017)

Cam built (i cut onto the flat piece of metal to get my swing cutting.8) this is the 3 lobe I plan to build a for lobe.


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## Trialnterror (Feb 6, 2017)

This is how I measure the .8 boring bar swing! You could also use a piece round rod (aluminum)


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## Trialnterror (Feb 7, 2017)

Just curious, the cam came out with lines where each cut was made, does anyone have a idea of what the boring head tool should look like? (The shape of the cutting tool, rounded tip maybe) And maybe what speed to run it at? (For the stress proof metal) if not I'll do more research and see if I can't find it. The surface was not very smooth per say.....


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## Cogsy (Feb 7, 2017)

Trialnterror said:


> Just curious, the cam came out with lines where each cut was made, does anyone have a idea of what the boring head tool should look like? (The shape of the cutting tool, rounded tip maybe) And maybe what speed to run it at? (For the stress proof metal) if not I'll do more research and see if I can't find it. The surface was not very smooth per say.....


 
This is the cam I just made for the Rupnow Vertical using my boring head. I used 12L14 but I've cut 1144 as well and achieved a similar result. The tool was a standard boring bar (as can be seen in the picture) and I would have been turning it somewhere around 500+ RPM. Finish was very good and literally 2 minutes work with a small file to blend the facets and round the transitions. The boring head was set to something like 1-1/2" swing and running backwards - although this is not best practice from what I hear as it can unscrew.


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## Trialnterror (Feb 8, 2017)

I guess the thing I worry about with that type of cutter is when I do my cam it has three lobes and I had to grind part of it off so it wouldn't cut into the lobes above the lobe I'm currently cutting. When I did that it left cut lines. Although I was running the machine at 1000 rpm. I'll do a test tonight on one and slow the speed to 500rpm. I have a different style cutter, like one I believe JasonB posted before. I'll try both and see what kind of finish I get.


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## gg89220 (Feb 9, 2017)

hello
Yes, 3 lobes cut in the mass


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## Trialnterror (Feb 9, 2017)

You saw my question on the youtube! Excellent build sir! I really like your idea of cutting with a keyway cutter.


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## Trialnterror (Feb 11, 2017)

Is it just me or does this drawing try and defy logic? I didn't know you could fit a 2.5" circle in a 2x2" square?


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## Trialnterror (Feb 11, 2017)

Finished the head fixture just need to install pins, pretend the extra hole isn't there! Whoops!!


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## Trialnterror (Feb 12, 2017)

Ordered .342 reamer 

The spark plug is M10x1.0 is this a common spark plug thread size? Before I tap it I'd like to be sure.....


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## Trialnterror (Feb 14, 2017)

.342 reamer came Today


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## oneKone (Feb 14, 2017)

Trialnterror said:


> Ordered .342 reamer
> 
> The spark plug is M10x1.0 is this a common spark plug thread size? Before I tap it I'd like to be sure.....


Yep M10x1 is a common size. I've used them in rc plane engines


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## Ghosty (Feb 15, 2017)

Trialnterror said:


> Ordered .342 reamer
> 
> The spark plug is M10x1.0 is this a common spark plug thread size? Before I tap it I'd like to be sure.....


Yes the M10 X 1 is the size for the NGK CM6 most gas RC aircraft engines or the NGK CMR7H plugs, the later one is for most Zenoah engines in the 26 and 30cc range.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Trialnterror (Feb 18, 2017)

Started machining da head! Next step install in head fixture then do angles!
I've started on the left side, I took a picture of the drawing and used a app to mirror the image. That way I don't get confused when machining da left side!!


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## Trialnterror (Feb 18, 2017)

Took my printer and inverted (mirrored) the image for the left side!


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## Trialnterror (Feb 19, 2017)

I have a question I've been searching for all night!

The spark plug hole shows that it's slotted (7/8" I guess). Now the dim. Is on center by .813   (0, .813 X 30°)

1. Would I.. from center, move to .813 then center drill to mark location?
2. Next move 30° make sure I'm still on center and line my drill bit up with the center drill location I made earlier? Drill thru in a step process until I reach the size of drill required for M10X1 ?
3. Then with a slot drill (7/8"-.875") go to depth of .675" ?
4. Next tap the hole M10X1 ?

I can't think of any other way to get location of the .813 without center drilling while horizontal then move to 30° and then try and line up my mark I just made with the center drill to get location?


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## Piston_Broke (Feb 19, 2017)

A wiggler is a very handy tool for what your doing(if I understand correctly). With the mill running, true up the wiggler and use it to line up the spindle with the layout lines. Be sure to use a center drill or even spotface with an endmill so your drill doesn't wander off down the slope. Cheers!


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## Trialnterror (Feb 20, 2017)

I thought about pinning a piece of aluminum at the base (center)of the triangle(see pictures)
Then pin at 90* to find center of part, zero DRO
Next pull pins and pin at 30* (while keeping pin on center rotate to 30*)
Still on zero should be exactly on dim.


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## Jasonb (Feb 20, 2017)

I also suggested the wiggler in the other thread that you asked in.

If you don't have a wiggler look up "stick pin" which works just as well


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## Trialnterror (Feb 20, 2017)

Thanks (wiggler on the way)


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## Trialnterror (Feb 21, 2017)

I have something that might be interesting?
I was watching Mr.pete222 on YouTube and he was putting a 60* taper on a part so he put his compound at 30*...... 

Now the hoglet for the cylinders says to put a 5* taper on the cylinder....
Since it calls out 5* on one side would this really be called a 10* taper or did I mess up and should of set my compound to  2.5* instead of 5*.....?


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## Jasonb (Feb 21, 2017)

5deg was the correct angle to set your slide at in this case.

If you extended the 5deg line down each side then the "point" they form would be 10degrees and this is termed the "included angle"


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## Trialnterror (Mar 5, 2017)

Have you ever had plans all week to spend time on the weekend in your machine shop to only have your Wife get in the way arrgggg  well always next weekend


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## Trialnterror (Mar 19, 2017)

Finished machining the heads now need the small parts for them


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## Trialnterror (Mar 19, 2017)

Built 2 sets the top ones are off dim. The bottom ones I'm happy with. They need cleaned up now.


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## Trialnterror (Mar 19, 2017)

Now I guess I'll start on the valve guides?


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 19, 2017)

A lot of really nice work so far. Thanks for sharing the pictures.


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## Rozlo (Mar 21, 2017)

Doing fantastic work.  I miss your videos I've watched all of them you have so far.  Great build


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## Trialnterror (Mar 21, 2017)

I'll start with more videos
I also remade the top plates as I wasn't happy with the fit!


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## Trialnterror (Mar 23, 2017)

Cylinder bolt hole circle drilling


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## Rozlo (Mar 24, 2017)

This is an awesome build


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## Trialnterror (Mar 25, 2017)

When making the valve guides and valve it calls for .156"  why? Why not just 5/32? Did the guys that made their engines use .156" or did you do some voodoo and move up to 5/32" .1562?  Does the .2 even matter??? Also the .170" mounting holes instead of .1695"? (#18 ) why the crazy size call out? 

Do I go out n buy the .156 reamer or use the hundreds of 5/32" I have??


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 25, 2017)

The .0002" doesn't matter at all. Go ahead and use your 5/32" reamer.---Brian


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## Trialnterror (Mar 25, 2017)

I stress over the smallest things! Thank you


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## Jasonb (Mar 25, 2017)

It's just the CAD package set to 3 decimal places


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## Trialnterror (Mar 25, 2017)

Valve guides made!


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## petertha (Mar 26, 2017)

Trialnterror said:


> I stress over the smallest things! Thank you


 
As JasonB said, its likely the way the CAD package and/or operator shows the dimensions. But even some high end packages are still kind of buggy in this regard. For example in Solidworks you can select from a wide range of different selectable hole types, mixed units, tap, clearance, dowel... and even specify tolerances which can then be conveyed on the drawing. But when you go to make drawings from the model, it's not that smart to self annotate like #NN numbered drill or X/64". (Longstanding user request, maybe they will get to it one day). It will however spit out the true diameter and apply any specified min/max tolerance and to whatever number of decimal places you desire. 

So what I do on my own drawings is show 4 sig figs so they correlated to my drill chart. And better practice is annotate a note for anything important for clarity, especially mixed SI.IMP dimension drawings - metric bearings hole in an otherwise IMP part for example where your nominal IMP reamers may not work anyway.

Nice engine BTW!

In the end you have to know what the design intent is. Making something +/- 0.0005" is unnecessary for a common bolt hole, but may be vitally important for a clearance or press fit to another part.


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## geo (Mar 26, 2017)

Measure your drill bits or you will get caught


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## Trialnterror (Mar 29, 2017)

Finished the rocker arm supports


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## Trialnterror (Apr 2, 2017)

Making valves, i've built 3 now and my last one was almost perfect. I now know how to make them i.e. Different steps of Processes/setups so they should come out how I want them/to the drawing!


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## Trialnterror (Apr 2, 2017)

I also looked all over for 5/32 E clips and couldn't find them anywhere!!!! Or if I did they wanted allot for them! But....... I found them at the local pep boys! They have a kit that has 25 of them plus a bunch of other sizes and ring clips for like 12 bucks.


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