# gingery metal mill



## Norman (Jul 23, 2010)

I started to make the patterns for the mill a couple of days ago. So far the main bed and the spindle tower are made. I may do some casting in the next couple of days. 
The patterns are made from fiber board there is no grain to worry bout the stuff is easy to cut and sand. I use wood glue and staples to hold the parts together. 
For miss matched parts I use bondo to fix the problems. I paint the parts in water based varnish 2 coats then coat the part in 2 coats of Johnson's paste wax, hand rubbing them for a fairly slick finish.
I made the bases tonight just put the first coat of varnish on, they should be ready to use Saturday, so I'll be doing some casting as long as it don't rain,it never rains here in the Texas panhandle unless you want to go ride the motorcycle or cast metal???? Living in tornado alley can be pretty hair raising at times.
Norman
the base and the spindle patterns.





the spindle pattern is a split pattern. I like casting these it's more fun to see if I can get it out of the sand with out messing it up.


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## Norman (Jul 30, 2010)

Been casting the head stand,the bed, and the 2 base mounts.
I have the steel ways installed on the head stand and the bed along with the bed mounted on the 2 bases. I now need to make the pattern for the spindle head.
 I'll put up a couple of photos at a later date .
Norman


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## T70MkIII (Jul 31, 2010)

Very nice patterns Norman, and I am looking forward to seeing your castings and progress. I started a Gingery Lathe several years ago, but kids and rennovations got in the way.


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## Norman (Jul 31, 2010)

Here's some photos of the mill.
patterns and the parts.














 On the back side the bed has a little flaw where I cut off the pouring gate a small void. I'll not worry about it. I had to cast the head stand 2 times I had a nasty void on the first one at the base of it. I did the small base casting 2 times the first pour, I didn't have enough metal in the pour I did fill the mold but very little metal was in the gate maybe 1", it wasn't real good looking at the bottom of the base . So I redid it, both bases are 1/2" thick instead of 1/4" thick. The reason is, I didn't have 1/4" material to make the patterns and didn't feel like cutting them down to the 1/4" thickness,I did have the 1/2" material so I used the 1/2" MDF instead
they should be a little more stout? 




Now its back to pattern making I need to make the spindle head pattern next.


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## T70MkIII (Jul 31, 2010)

Thanks for posting, Norman - it's coming along brilliantly!


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## Norman (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.
I made the head spindle pattern today. I just put the first coat of varnish on about 10 minutes ago. I use the water based varnish it doesn't smell the big plus is clean up is with water once dry the varnish is water resistant. On this pattern the book calls out for the front part where the spindle goes through to be 4 3/8" wide by 4" tall.
The measurement should be 4 3/8" by 3" if made to the plans then the bottom part of the head spindle will need extra long bolts at least for the one pinch bolt that goes on the bottom. I hope I didn't mess up as I did it 3" instead of 4". Looking at the photos of the mill shows it to be 3" as far as I can tell.
Norman


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## SAM in LA (Aug 1, 2010)

Norman,

For your project to be even more scratch built, you need to grow the trees and mine the ore. :big:

I will be watching your build closely.

SAM


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## Norman (Aug 1, 2010)

Sam That's funny! :big: I am working under the shade of an oak tree as it's pretty warm working in the man cave this time of the year. Don't think that I haven't eyed that tree for some lumber for pattern material!
That poor tree has some of the leaves scorched from the foundry in operation. I also have some scorched grass from the OOOps! ;D when pouring the aluminum.


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## T70MkIII (Aug 2, 2010)

Scorched grass better than scorched concrete! Ask me how I know...


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## Norman (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't have to ask I have first hand experience, patched spot in the drive where I spilled some aluminum , that's when I figured I'd better move it to the grass, good thing, I've had molds leak and a couple of times spilled more liquid metal when pouring excess metal into an ingot mold. The small pitting in the drive is not the bad part of aluminum being spilled, it's the flying liquid aluminum that can hit you after the super heated steam from the concrete throws the metal everywhere.
Its a lot worse than putting a lit firecracker in fresh cow poop and seeing who will not run before it goes off. :big:


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## Norman (Aug 5, 2010)

Here's all of the pattern that have been made for this mill got a few more to make. Bunch of small patterns some patterns get used for multiple parts.















Not pretty but should work fine. I write notes on the patterns to help me remember where things go. I tried using spray primer on one pattern then realized that I was covering up the notes so back to brushing on the varnish.
I'll have to start casting some of these soon.
Norman


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## johnthomp (Aug 6, 2010)

instead of primer why not spray on clear coat car paint to get the smoothe finish im cyrrently trying to make some patterns for brian rupnows flyball governor and a 2" curved spoke flywheel for the twentieth time and this time i havent stuffed it up 
  looking forward to seeing the end result of this thread id love to have one of these machines and be able to say i built it 
  the best of luck with the build 
  john


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## Norman (Aug 6, 2010)

John
I'm using materials that I have on hand trying to get rid of old spray paint and other coatings that will work that have been in the cabinet.
aka being cheap!
The finish on these parts are not real important to me, only where they need a good finish do I take extra care, well sort of. :big: 
 Using home made sand for casting I can't expect a real slick finish at least I don't. My sand is play sand with cat litter for a binder.
I'm going to start casting again today I'll try knocking out the head slide( not sure if that is what its called) of the mill and a couple of hand wheels, parts that are going to be needed to keep plunking on with building. 
 I need to go get some waste oil at my friendly oil changer's store(free oil!) and a little diesel( expensive almost $3.00 a gallon here) for starting the foundry on then its sand pounding time.
thanks for your reply good luck on your project.
Norman


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## Norman (Aug 7, 2010)

Some of the castings I did late yesterday.
Fresh out of the sand. I broke off the little aluminum wires that form from the venting process.









The steel core is still in the part I'll take it out to use on the other half of the spindle slide that I'll be casting soon.




They all turned out good enough to use.


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## johnthomp (Aug 7, 2010)

what play sand im intreagued now on two counts 
 1 do you grind up the kitty litter before adding it to the sand and 2 what raatio do you use in sand to kitty litter its gotta be cleaner than digging sand up from the old foundry near me mums house its full of coal dust i think they used to do pig iron there 
regards john


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## Norman (Aug 7, 2010)

John
The play sand I use is from Walmart about $3.00 for a bag is silica sand I sift it through screen wire. It is pretty clean hardly any pebbles in the bag of sand. This sand is already damp so when I add the water I don't need to use much. I use clumping cat litter its called "Special Kitty" also from walmart this stuff is made from bentonite. I grind it up in a blender and sift out the pebbles and regrind it until its in powder form.
I mix 10 lbs of sand (damp)to 1 lb of litter. I then mix it up dry( remember the sand is damp) then add water to make it sort of feel like brown sugar, let it set for a day and keep it sealed container, then remix it by hand it is then ready for use.
I live in a dry climate so I have to keep the sand in sealed containers or it will dry out completely. I use old ice cream buckets,tupperware container, and bucket that I line with trash bags so I can keep them air tight.


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## johnthomp (Aug 7, 2010)

cheers fella im off to me local shpos in the morning to get me some of this gear with livving on this damp little island we call the uk i dont think theres any danger of the sand drying out so ill store it in me cement mixer its clean enough to mix food in but not for the want of trying and covered up it should be ok out of the way of me daughter coz i dont yet know if kitty litter is harmful to kids who like eating sand th_wtf1
  regards john


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## SAM in LA (Aug 7, 2010)

johnthomp  said:
			
		

> cheers fella im off to me local shpos in the morning to get me some of this gear with livving on this damp little island we call the uk i dont think theres any danger of the sand drying out so ill store it in me cement mixer its clean enough to mix food in but not for the want of trying and covered up it should be ok out of the way of me daughter coz i dont yet know if kitty litter is harmful to kids who like eating sand th_wtf1
> regards john



John,

I would keep it covered up so a cat won't use it.

SAM


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## Norman (Aug 7, 2010)

the parts cleaned up ready for some machining
parts sitting on the mill




back side 




front side 





cleaned up fairly nice.


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## johnthomp (Aug 7, 2010)

haveing heared the old saying the first mill was made without a mill is it possible to build this one without useing a milling machine or am i being daft
regards john


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## Norman (Aug 7, 2010)

yes it's possible. I don't have a milling machine. Only a sears lathe very well worn. I did build the gingery shaper and will be using it to machine the slides on the mill.
Norman


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## 1Kenny (Aug 7, 2010)

Very nice Norman,

This is great that you are showing us how you are making everything.

Kenny


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## Norman (Aug 8, 2010)

Your welcome Kenny


I did some more casting today. these are right out of the sand. One of the castings is ganged up, had a larger flask so I gave it a try. They all turned out good enough to use. The metal must have been hot as the spruce really shrank as it cooled but the cast parts came out fine.
I'm getting low on metal again so I'm going to have to do some looking for more scrap aluminum. I've got enough parts to work on I'll be busy, but I'm going to go to LA, Ca. Tuesday to visit my son so I'll be gone for 10 days so the work on this has come to a screeching halt for a while.
3 casting on this.





all of the casting I did today.





See you guys later!! :big:


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## Paul Erland (Aug 9, 2010)

NIce looking castings. You are getting a pretty nice finish on them.


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## sattawut (Aug 14, 2010)

Very nice patterns Norman, and I am looking forward to seeing your castings and progress. I started a Gingery Lathe several years ago, but kids and rennovations got in the way.


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## larry1 (Aug 14, 2010)

Norman,  Great looking parts,  looking forward to see this mill put together. larry


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## Norman (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm now at the boring of the spindle head. Finished up the slides, hand wheels etc.

I'm using the drive system off of the metal shaper to run the boring bar. I used 1/2" plywood to mount the drive system which is a little on the thin side so the drive system is sagging I'm using my face plate with right angle plates for support under the drive in true red neck fashion. besides this set up is only to get the spindle head bored then it will be taken apart and probably never used again. If I ever need to use the shaper drive again on this I'll make a metal plate to mount the drive.




Quill support with the boring bar




the boring bar bit. instead of using a square bit I'm using a round bit made from drill rod so I don't have to file the boring bar hole square.




looking into the spindle head. I need to make the bore around 1.125"right now its around .875 . the drill rod bit is working good so far.


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## xlchainsaw (Sep 10, 2010)

thanks for the pics.....i have the book on the mill ...after i did my lathe i was more interested in doing lathe work....im quote surprised at how well my aluminium castings are holding up! the only problem ive had is keeping the machine screws tight. so every eighty hours i need to go over it and tighten up!


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## Norman (Sep 10, 2010)

xlchainsaw
Have you tried blue loctite on your bolts? I used blue loctite on the threads for the machine screw on the bed ways. If it don't have lock washers I use the loctite.
 Got more done on the mill after boring the spindle head for the spindle shaft I then bored the spindle for a draw bar.
this is the spindle bearings. I pined them so they can not spin done the way a vw type 1 engine block main bearing are done.




I'm using the shaper's motor drive system to power up the mill's spindle to bore the spindle's draw bar hole.




I removed the bearing in the quill support made a shaft to mount a drill chuck on. Mounted to the quill support I proceed to drill the spindle for the draw bar. The draw bar hole is 3/8" dia. I have to drill half way through then flip the spindle and drill the rest of the way through. So the mill is now being used to make it own parts.
you can see how the drive system is mounted to do both ends of the shaft between these to last photos









With all this done the next order of business is to build the mill's motor drive system. I'm about half done building it as I started making the system last night. 
I'll put up some photos of the motor drive soon.


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## winklmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Nice work.


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## xlchainsaw (Sep 12, 2010)

excellent!!! funny how things go...i havent posted here for a while..... then i find your posts on the shaper and mill .....and then by chance meet a local guy who has made the patterns but never cast the mill or shaper....he had a fall out with our local hobby foundry 6 years ago.  this foundry is next to our groups steam shed and!!!!  it was their refusal to assist me that started me casting!!!!so put two "miss casts" together and ????????????  i dont think i mentioned!! this guy still has his patterns!!!


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## Norman (Sep 22, 2010)

Here is the mill with the transmission completed, I've made a face plate and machined the compound parts on the mill. Had to make a jury rigged tool holder using the quill support as a tool holder. The compound parts are over 6" in dia. my lathe will handle only 6" so the mill is making it's parts.





the compound, I'm working on the tool holder should have if done tonight.









 the transmission frame before mounting the motor, bearings, and sheaves.


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## Norman (Oct 1, 2010)

This is the finished boring bar to get the spindle head to size. With the home made holder and bit.




The spindle head bored to 0.625. I tapped the spindle head for 5/16 fine threads instead of the course threads for the 2 set screws.




 I've since made the face mill pattern and have it cast and finished but no photos yet.
Getting close to the end of building? Gee there's a bunch of things left to make.


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## Norman (Nov 9, 2010)

I finished up the mill
here's some photos

mill is done only part missing is the hand wheel for the tail stand since these pictures were taken the hand wheel has been cast , machined and fitted.




another view




the permanent base is being machined here using the cast aluminum face mill




some of the accessories for the mill





Now on to making tools to use with this mill.I do want to make the dividing head so that probably be the next project. I do need to do some repairs to the furnace as the lid has taken some hits from getting the fire a little to hot a couple of times. The lids opening at the start was 4" in dia it now about 6" so I'll need to redo the lid.
The weather has been getting cooler too so I don't roast while running the furnace
no more 100 degree temp days.
Norman


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## cfellows (Nov 9, 2010)

Very nice work. Lots of good work went into this. Very impressive.

Chuck


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## Norman (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks Chuck for the kind words.
I got around to fixing my sears lathe. It had spit out it's teeth on a gear that is cast as one piece on the drive pulley for running the very low speed back gear. I priced the pulley at a on line parts store the only place I was able to find the right part. Its price was $300.00 way more than I paid for the lathe. So now that I have a home made mill and shaper plus the foundry I figured I would give it a try at making my own gear to fix my lathe, it ain't pretty but it worked out good. Here's the photos of the fix.
the casting for making the gear and for making a fixture for milling the gear with my Gingery mill




I machined the stands in the mill mounted them on a 1/4"x3" cold rolled steel base




using my new g0602 lathe to bore the 3/4" holes for the stand


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## Norman (Nov 18, 2010)

stand is mounted on the mill and start of cutting the gear




Its a crude set up but it worked. I cut a spruce up then using the shaper I cut a 1/4" sq. slot to hold a small 60* carbide cutting tool use as an indexing holder so I could index each tooth. that's the broke gear being used as the index plate for cutting the new gear. the broke gear and the blank are held in place with a 1/4-20 set screw. the mandrel is held in place with 1/4-20 bolts.




the cutter is a round 1/4" drill rod hand ground to the shape of the space between the gears teeth heat treated etc. the mandrel is also home made. 




here's the finished gear I mounted it to the pulley with 3- machine screws and now the small sears lathe is back up and running. I can now run the lathe at 43 rpms just right for threading.
that's how I fixed my broke lathe and didn't spend a small fortune.


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## Norman (Oct 27, 2011)

After building this mill, using it, making it work better, up grades to a 1hp motor (thanks Uncle Norman for the motor!!!) I broke down and bought a Grizzly G0619 metal mill. I've been bitten hard by the machine tool bug ??? I went from a simple cheap metal working tools to costly machines in just 2.5 years. If I could have fitted a larger milling machine in my small shop I would have.
 So for building things I have a 6" sear metal lathe, a Grizzly G0602 modified with reverse tumbler gears and a speed reducer for threading 40 rpms is a bunch easier than the stock 150 rpms. 
 Plus I have the gingery metal mill, shaper, and the dividing head. Also other small table top tools . The foundry started all this craziness. 
The foundry started from me dragging out a old hoover vacuum cleaner out of the dumpster and building a blower from it, I then thought what am I going to do with this? So stay away from dumpster diving the machining bug live in the dumpsters.
 For being retired I'm having a pretty good time! I'm planning a trip to the Missouri Grizzly store tomorrow, I'm visiting my family in Jefferson city, Mo. so it's only about a 2.5 hr drive to Springfield, Mo. The machining tool bug is chewing my wallet!! :big:


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## dalem9 (Oct 27, 2011)

WOW that is nice work ! Everything looks great. Dale


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## woodnut (Oct 27, 2011)

Hi Norman

Wow that's nice work on the mill!! :bow:

I am part way through the Gingery lathe and was thinking of making the mill after. Can I ask how it performed? What would you change or do differently if you were to make one again?

Thanks in advance.

John


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## Norman (Nov 1, 2011)

If I were to make it again or improve it? Make all bearing roller bearing no bushing. The spindle would have some sort of timken tapered roller bearing and adjustable for end play.
 There's no way to adjust out the feed screw backlash, so make that different, maybe with acme feed screws. Use brass for all gibs, I used steel as per the plans, shim stock all brass, I used aluminum foil, pop cans, and those aluminum pans for cooking turkeys in. Hey they were cheap for shim stock. The shim stock I used is ok, but brass probably would be better?

I ended up using a 1 hp. electric motor the smaller motors wouldn't or couldn't turn the spindle at the highest rpms.
Looking back this was a fun project to build. I built the shaper and mill so I could fix my gears on the sears lathe. I preferred spending $300.00 on building the tools to make a $300.00 pulley/ sheave for the sears lathe, that way I learned something plus have 2 machines once done. 
Until starting on the Gingery series I'd never done anything much with my small lathe, nor did I know how. but now that I've built the shaper, mill, and dividing head I'm bitten by the machining bug. I do like to cast metal and machine it into something useful.
I've up graded to a Grizzly G0602 lathe. I designed and built a speed reducer and reverse tumbler gears for my lathe along with small things to make the lathe more user friendly for me. I just in the past 2 weeks bought a Grizzly G0619 mill. It's still in the shipping crate. I called and asked if it was going to go on sale soon they didn't know. A couple of days ago I get a Grizzly flyer about that mill being on sale for $1375.00 instead of $1495.00, of all the rotten luck!! 
 I'm in Missouri now so on the way home, I'm going to pay Grizzly a visit and see if they would maybe give me that discounted price, I'll use the refund if they will to purchase more tools for the mill, they may not do that for me but it won't hurt to ask.
good luck on you build.


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## /// (Nov 1, 2011)

Norman  said:
			
		

> ....
> I just in the past 2 weeks bought a Grizzly G0619 mill. It's still in the shipping crate. I called and asked if it was going to go on sale soon they didn't know. A couple of days ago I get a Grizzly flyer about that mill being on sale for $1375.00 instead of $1495.00, of all the rotten luck!!
> I'm in Missouri now so on the way home, I'm going to pay Grizzly a visit and see if they would maybe give me that discounted price


Surely there is a return/refund policy?
If they don't play-ball, tell them it is still boxed and you will be returning it for a full refund, then returning later to purchase one on sale ;D


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## Norman (Nov 1, 2011)

No I won't do that. The people at Grizzly are very good to deal with. The reason I'm in Missouri is my Mom passed away the day I got my mill. The mill got to Amarillo, Tx. on a Friday the trucking co. called and set up delivery the day before for Monday.
 I wasn't going to be home, I tried to get the trucking co. to deliver the mill that fri. they couldn't, so I went to Amarillo and loaded up the mill and took it home (I did get back the lift gate cost) the trucking co. would hold the mill for only 48 hrs. then send it back, so if I'd let that happen I wouldn't be ordering it again until next week. So maybe it will work out.


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## steamer (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi Norman,

My condolences on your loss, but let me congratulate you on your efforts. It took some heap of gumption to accomplish what you have since July of this year.

I'm glad you learned a ton along the way and shared your effort with us.

 :bow:

Dave


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## Norman (Nov 4, 2011)

I stopped at Grizzly and they DID give me a refund for the sale price so I promptly bought more tools! I have to say that the people at the grizzly store will do their best to please their customers.
My son at the Grizzly store in Missouri.





If I could have fit this mill in my shop this is the one I'd bought.




Loaded up in the truck G0619 mill




out of the truck and in my shop. Just uncrated still in all that nasty grease.


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## /// (Nov 5, 2011)

Thats great news re the refund. Sorry to hear about your mum though 
BTW, my previous post was a suggestion if they would not refund the difference, but they did so two thumbs up for Grizzly Thm: Thm:


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## Norman (Dec 20, 2011)

Well it's been only about 2 months since I bought the G0619 mill. I've built a stand for it out of 2" sq. tubing, I think it turned out pretty good at least for me.
 I've added a couple of things to the mill. One was a clutch for the power feed and the other is a spindle lock both were from a lady named Paula. They worked out really nice. Her post for the clutch is on this forum in the machine modifications thread. I found her spindle lock in the Yahoo forum for the Seig mills.
I broke down a bought a Dro Pros 2axis dro and installed it. All of these mods were well worth the trouble I think. The dro was expensive but sure beats me trying to remember the counts on the dials, I got the magnetic scales dro this was very easy to install but the instructions on how to use the dro don't match up with their videos online, those videos are for their other dros so the dro with the magnetic scales is a little different. I'm still stumbling through learning how to use the manual as there seems to be mistakes on how to use the dro in that manual. So if you get the magnetic scale dro don't buy their dvd it won't be the same on how to enter info or use the magnetic scales dro, I didn't buy their dvd but thought they all came with one but they don't. Well enough rambling.


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