# Rupnow i.c. Engine with governor



## Brian Rupnow

I started thinking about building this engine a couple of months ago and posted it at http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f16/i-may-design-i-c-engine-21117/   I've decided its time to move my thread over to the "A Work in Progress" section of the forum. As usual, when I start thinking I "may" do something, its never very long until I find that I "am" doing it. This build excites me, as I am rather entranced by flyball governors and by hit and miss engines, so what could be better than combining both in one package. I am taking a somewhat "modular" approach to this engine, so it can be built with or without the flyball governor, and as a water cooled version or as an air cooled version. (I am going to supply drawings for both versions). The approach to the crankshaft is somewhat novel, and is based on a 6 cycle engine originally designed by Philip Duclos. This will be an "All ball bearing" engine except for a bushing in the small end of the connecting rod and one in the flyball governor. The 3 ball bearings cost less than a total of $15 Canadian, and the bevel gears driving the flyball governor are $20 each from McMaster Carr. I am hoping to find 10 other people world wide who will build this engine at the same time as I am and post about it. My goal is to make at least one part per week. (There are a total of about 75 parts). All detail drawings will be posted here, and "in process" shots of the parts as I am making them.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

This is the air cooled version.


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## GKNIPP

Boy this looks sweet Brian!!!!  Your talents are priceless.

Greg


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## jwcnc1911

Brian, do you have a plan of attack as to which parts you intend to machine first?  Do you have a BOM yet?  What about power supply?  When are you going to post solids and drawings?  When do you plan to start your one part a week regimen?

I'm digging the design and we can definitely tell your into flyballs lately... Look how big that one is!  After all, this engine was designed primarily for the governor!


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## Jasonb

JW what do you mean by power supply, its an IC engine and supplies its own power? Brian has drawn the points so just connect your favorite coil and away you go.

Brian do you feel teh flyballs will have the force to overcome the friction in that rather tortuous linkage? I guess there is only one way to find out

J


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## jwcnc1911

It will have to have a battery, stator or something...


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## Brian Rupnow

Engine will have a very conventional set of Chrysler ignition points, condenser, 6 or 12 volt coil, and a 6 or 12 volt battery. Fuel will be Naptha gas (Coleman lantern fuel.) The size of the flyballs will be determined using the "suck it and see" basis, although I think the 5/8" balls I have specified should be sufficient based on earlier governors I have built. I will start posting drawings today. I won't be posting models per se' because they have no practical value unless you have 3D cad software to utilize them. What will I machine first?---Well, I have made everything on this engine multiple times, all except for the rather strange crankshaft, so that will probably happen very early in the game. After all, if I can't build the crankshaft, there is no point in making all the other engine parts. First part up will be the baseplate. Second parts will be the sideplates and main bearing caps. Then the crankshaft, in that order. Once we have that much assembly done and have satisfied ourselves that this is a practical method for making a crank (with flywheels which are part of the crankshaft) we will go on with all the rest of the parts.


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## Jasonb

Flywheel/crank combination should work fine its just like a HD engine and similar to whats used on the Hoglet, just yours are a simpler one piece design though no reason a builder could not shrink a weightier bronze rim onto a steel web


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay Guys---Here goes!!! First plate detailed is the baseplates. Don't worry about the 1/8" holes for dowels right now---they will be drilled "in assembly" with sideplates and cylinder head at a later date.


 

View attachment BASE-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Canman

I can't wait to get started on this.


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian, do you the bearing number
I'll pick them up with the material today

And the PDF is not attached


thanks

Luc


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--The bearings are RBI 1605-2rs from Canadian Bearings (distributor) They cost less than $5 each. Specs are 3/8" i.d. x 29/32" o.d. x .312" wide.


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## Brian Rupnow

Houston---We may have a problem---Already!!! In the back of my head I have thought all along that I would bore out the bearing cavities in the sideplates and bearing caps by mounting them on the faceplate of my lathe. However--I just did a quick and nasty layout----My lathe has a 9 3/8" faceplate. It will swing 10 diameter" and clear the bed.---You can see my problem.  However, all is not lost.  I will move the cavity for the bearings flush with the inside of the sideplates and bearing caps and have a 1/16" retainer ridge on the outside of the plates and bearing caps only. That will allow me to bore them on the milling machine. Sure is fun making prototypes!!! New drawings will be posted this evening.


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## Brian Rupnow

However--Not all the news is negative. My bevel gears just arrived, and they are REALY slick!!! Not bad, considering My friend just ordered them yesterday. They are steel.


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## Scott_M

Hi Brian

Very nice design !
On the "Bearing Cavity" why not just bore it straight thru ? Do you want the side lips for appearance reasons ? I am sure the bearing caps will retain the bearing from moving. If it is an appearance issue how about just doing them on the out side, you probably won't see them on the inside anyway. I think I would fit the bearing caps first and then drill and bore the holes. You could even stack the 2 side plates and drill and ream the smaller hole through both and then just counter bore the second one as a second setup.

And forgive me if this was covered or I am just missing it.......what is actuating the intake valve ?  Or does it just get sucked open ?

Scott


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## Brian Rupnow

And two bearing caps.--That should keep some of you out of trouble for the weekend at any rate. I have had to revise this drawing and move the bearing pocket over to one side instead of centered as it was previously. I will make the parts I have detailed myself now, before I detail any more.---Brian


 

View attachment BEARING CAP-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

I have changed the pocket that the bearing sets in on this drawing. No other features were changed.


 

View attachment SIDEPLATE-1-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

I have revised this drawing in the area where the bearing pocket goes. No other features were changed.


 

View attachment SIDEPLATE-2-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

Scott_M said:


> Hi Brian
> 
> Very nice design !
> On the "Bearing Cavity" why not just bore it straight thru ? Do you want the side lips for appearance reasons ? I am sure the bearing caps will retain the bearing from moving. If it is an appearance issue how about just doing them on the out side, you probably won't see them on the inside anyway. I think I would fit the bearing caps first and then drill and bore the holes. You could even stack the 2 side plates and drill and ream the smaller hole through both and then just counter bore the second one as a second setup.
> 
> And forgive me if this was covered or I am just missing it.......what is actuating the intake valve ?  Or does it just get sucked open ?
> 
> Scott


Yes Scott---It just gets "sucked" open. Its what's known as an "atmospheric intake valve." Works fine on slow revving engines. I wanted to have the bearing restrained from any side to side movement, with only very light pressure from the bearing caps, just enough to keep the outer race from spinning, but not enough pressure to deform the outer race. Seeing as I can't do that operation on my lathe, I have decided to modify the drawings so that the retaining "rim" of material is on one side of the plate only. I chose to have it on the outside of the plates to keep the bearings from drifting outwards, and will put a very thin washer between the flywheels and the inner side of the bearing to restrain it from drifting inwards.---Brian


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## jwcnc1911

Brian,

Why not just bore that on the mill?


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## Brian Rupnow

jwcnc1911 said:


> Brian,
> 
> Why not just bore that on the mill?


Read post #14.


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## jwcnc1911

My bad, got to quit reading this on my phone.  Miss too much.

So why do you have to change the feature to make this cut on your mill?

Just curious, I'm not seeing why the feature must be changed.  I would have preferred this cut on the mill anyway.


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## Brian Rupnow

jwcnc1911 said:


> My bad, got to quit reading this on my phone.  Miss too much.
> 
> So why do you have to change the feature to make this cut on your mill?
> 
> Just curious, I'm not seeing why the feature must be changed.  I would have preferred this cut on the mill anyway.


Read post 14.--Look at the picture!!!--To expand on that a bit---Unless you have a very expensive boring head, that lets you set the cutter out farther from center WHILE THE MILL IS RUNNING you can't make the kind of cut I had detailed previously. I have got caught on this one before myself. You have to shut the mill off to adjust the boring head. If the boring head cutter is between two "ridges" of material on each side of the plate, you can't adjust it out farther in the hole, because there is material in the way. You can't withdraw it out of the plate to set the tool out farther or when you go back into the plate you cut one of the ridges away that you wanted to keep. That one is a bit of a head scratcher. You can do it in the lathe however, because you can adjust the boring tool to cut the hole larger by retracting the cross feed while the chuck is spinning. That's why my original plan was to do it in the lathe.


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## jwcnc1911

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=367-2200&PMPXNO=944949&PARTPG=INLMK32 + rotary table.


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## Rivergypsy

Many thanks for the drawings, Brian - Roll on getting my hands on some material on Monday 
A quick question, please - are you allowing 'artistic license', or would you prefer all engines to be a perfect scale copy? Just checking, as I occasionally get the urge to tweak parts as I'm machining them. I'm not saying in the slightest that I don't love your engine, but i just know what I'm like...


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## Brian Rupnow

Rivergypsy said:


> Many thanks for the drawings, Brian - Roll on getting my hands on some material on Monday
> A quick question, please - are you allowing 'artistic license', or would you prefer all engines to be a perfect scale copy? Just checking, as I occasionally get the urge to tweak parts as I'm machining them. I'm not saying in the slightest that I don't love your engine, but i just know what I'm like...


 RiverGypsy--after 48 years as a design engineer for industry, I tend to put more emphasis on functionality rather than on cosmetic appeal, I know that. If you pretty it up some, I won't be offended at all. Just try hopefully to keep most of the major dimensions the same please.---Brian


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## Rivergypsy

Many thanks for your reply Brian - I didn't want to offend you. 

Lol, I'm just an old tart when it comes to engines 

I was thinking of pocketing some of the faces of the side pieces and head to give the appearance of cast in ribs, with radiused corners. What do you think?


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## Brian Rupnow

Got up this morning at 6:30 to a black, thundery looking day. I have orders from headquarters for only one thing today--"Go get a haircut--You're starting to look like a white haired Gollywog!!!"--Yes dear!!! This should leave the rest of the day to make parts. I have the layout dye on some aluminum for my bearing caps, waiting for it to dry. Have to go downtown and buy materials for baseplate and sideplates later this morning.--Will do that when I go to get "ungollywogged". Dye is dry--Have to go and make chips!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

Rivergypsy said:


> Many thanks for your reply Brian - I didn't want to offend you.
> 
> Lol, I'm just an old tart when it comes to engines
> 
> I was thinking of pocketing some of the faces of the side pieces and head to give the appearance of cast in ribs, with radiused corners. What do you think?


Go for it!!!


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## Rivergypsy

Lovely job - I'll get busy on SW first thing Monday. I think the Interact should be free next week too


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## Brian Rupnow

Bearing caps have only two critical features.--The surface which mates with the sideplates and the hole for the bearing. Consequently, if you have one "good edge" to start from, lay them out , cut them out on the bandsaw and clean-up with a file. No need to spend a lot of time with milling them.


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## Brian Rupnow

And so, my darlin's--We 're off to the races. Time to go and get some breakfast now!!!


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> However--Not all the news is negative. My bevel gears just arrived, and they are REALY slick!!! Not bad, considering My friend just ordered them yesterday. They are steel.


 
Hey Brian do you have the specs for the gears  I myght have some at the hobby shop
I will keep design one for the bearing.


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi Brian 
                 I was having a look at all the drawing yesterday
and I'm questionning myself about the crank shaft it self.
The picture shows one nut on each side. Is one of them lh thread
and one rh thread. If not I think we are in hot water:fan:
what do you think. my worry is that one will always get loose


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## Brian Rupnow

Just ran down to my local machine shop/metal supplier and paid $20 for enough material to make a base and sideplates and scooped an old brake disc out of their dumpster to make a tramming tool for my mill someday when I'm really bored.!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

canadianhorsepower said:


> Hi Brian
> I was having a look at all the drawing yesterday
> and I'm questionning myself about the crank shaft it self.
> The picture shows one nut on each side. Is one of them lh thread
> and one rh thread. If not I think we are in hot water:fan:
> what do you think. my worry is that one will always get loose


No, they are both right hand thread. I may modify that cross  shaft and put a flange on one end that connects to the flywheel with four #8 socket head cap screws. The bevel gears are 24 DP X 24 TEETH x 1/4" bore. x 1" Pitch (I will open the bores up to 3/8".)


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## Brian Rupnow

Just ran down to my local machine shop/metal supplier and paid $20 for enough material to make a base and sideplates, two batteries for my digital calipers, and scooped an old brake disc out of their dumpster to make a tramming tool for my mill someday when I'm really bored.!!!


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## canadianhorsepower

> The bevel gears are 24 DP X 24 TEETH x 1/4" bore. x 1" Pitch


 
1inch pitch


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## Cogsy

canadianhorsepower said:


> 1inch pitch


 
PCD or Pitch Diameter I believe.


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## Jasonb

Yet PCD or pitch circle equals Number of teeth divided by DP 24/24 = 1


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## canadianhorsepower

Jasonb said:


> Yet PCD or pitch circle equals Number of teeth divided by DP 24/24 = 1


 
there is more then one type of pitch

then there is the real pitch



> *Pitch nomenclature[edit]*
> 
> *Pitch* is the distance between a point on one tooth and the corresponding point on an adjacent tooth.[5] It is a dimension measured along a line or curve in the transverse, normal, or axial directions. The use of the single word _pitch_ without qualification may be ambiguous, and for this reason it is preferable to use specific designations such as transverse circular pitch, normal base pitch, axial pitch.
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> Circular pitch, _p_ Arc distance along a specified pitch circle or pitch line between corresponding profiles of adjacent teeth.Transverse circular pitch, _p_t Circular pitch in the transverse plane.Normal circular pitch, _p_n, _p_e Circular pitch in the normal plane, and also the length of the arc along the normal pitch helix between helical teeth or threads.Axial pitch, _p_x Linear pitch in an axial plane and in a pitch surface. In helical gears and worms, axial pitch has the same value at all diameters. In gearing of other types, axial pitch may be confined to the pitch surface and may be a circular measurement. The term axial pitch is preferred to the term linear pitch. The axial pitch of a helical worm and the circular pitch of its worm gear are the same.Normal base pitch, _p_N, _p_bn An involute helical gear is the base pitch in the normal plane. It is the normal distance between parallel helical involute surfaces on the plane of action in the normal plane, or is the length of arc on the normal base helix. It is a constant distance in any helical involute gear.Transverse base pitch, _p_b, _p_bt In an involute gear, the pitch on the base circle or along the line of action. Corresponding sides of involute gear teeth are parallel curves, and the base pitch is the constant and fundamental distance between them along a common normal in a transverse plane.Diametral pitch (transverse), _P_d Ratio of the number of teeth to the standard pitch diameter in inches.
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> Main article: Backlash (engineering)


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## Brian Rupnow

The book lists it as being 1" pitch diameter.


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## Jasonb

Yes most suppliers catalogues would list the Pitch dia its the standard way to describe gears  Tooth number-size either DP or MOD - PCD. and common sence would tell you its not the pitch between two teeth.

J


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## GKNIPP

Thank you so much again Brian for sharing your talents and offering these drawings.  Greatly appreciated!!!!


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## canadianhorsepower

Jasonb said:


> Yes most suppliers catalogues would list the Pitch dia its the standard way to describe gears  Tooth number-size either DP or MOD - PCD. and common sence would tell you its not the pitch between two teeth.
> 
> J


 

I know this but "common sense" also tells you not to assume something
that your not sure of. and because I'm putting one together I wanted to be certain. That's why the question was for Brian and NO ONE ELSE


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--Please don't start a row. Jason is only trying to be helpful. Sometimes things get a fit "fuzzed" in translation. Gknipp---Hope you join us all and build one.---Brian


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> Luc--Please don't start a row. Jason is only trying to be helpful. Sometimes things get a fit "fuzzed" in translation. Gknipp---Hope you join us all and build one.---Brian


 
It's not my goal Brian, but being told "common sense" does not belong 
in an answer. Next time I'll PM you instead

cheers


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## Brian Rupnow

Here we have 99% of a base. I am drilling the 1/8" dowel holes in this plate but leaving them .031 undersized. (There is one I couldn't get to because a toe clamp is in the way) . I will assemble the base and sideplates and get everything "squared up" and the bolts tightened, then use these as guide holes to drill thru into the sideplates, then ream them and add 1/8" dowels. I got this far into the build and realized that I didn't have a counterbore tool for a #8 shcs., but a 9/32" end mill is just the right size, so I used it to counterbore the 10 holes. The only missing hole (other than the one where the toe clamp is) is the threaded hole for the governor spring adjuster post. I have decided to drill it after everything is assembled.


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## Brian Rupnow

We have a base!!! After I got all the holes finished, I took it off the mill and turned it over, and what did I see?? A great big nasty scratch right down the middle of the part, about .015" deep. I didn't do it. It was there when I bought the aluminum--I just didn't notice it. Not wanting to do any more machining on the face of the part, I dug out my seldom used belt sander and bullied the scratch into submission. Then a bit of time with my jitterbug sander, and the scratch is gone. While I was down at the metal supplier this morning, I held my breath and asked "How much?" for 8 1/2" of 4" x 3/4" brass.---Flywheels ya know. The counterman looked it up in the big book and said---(Gasp)---$55!!! . I don't know if the Rupnow fortune could take a hit like that or not.---But Damn, polished brass flywheels and flyballs would sure set it off nice!!!.


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## canadianhorsepower

> I held my breath and asked "How much?" for 8 1/2" of 4" x 3/4" brass.---Flywheels ya know. The counterman looked it up in the big book and said---(Gasp)---$55!!! . I don't know if the Rupnow fortune could take a hit like that or not.---But Damn, polished brass flywheels and flyballs would sure set it off nice!!!.
> http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Br...BUM1/ALBUM THREE/BASE003_zpse0906a8a.jpg.html


 
Hey Brian
 arelation of mine have a huge steel fabricator company he probably buys 2 to 3 million a year of stuff, I'll ask him to get me a quote
what if we get 4.250 shaft 2inch long  it but cut on the metal saw after


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--There is one problem with making flywheels from round stock.  I find that to make a flywheel 1" wide, I have to buy a piece of material 2" long so I have something to hold onto in my chuck. I asked about the bar today, will probably ask about the price of round stock on Monday. I haven't got real serious about the flywheels yet, as I have a lot of work to do before I'm ready to make them.


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## ausdier

G'day Brian,
If you have limited round stock, how about you hold one side then face one side and drill the centre.
Then turn it around and bolt it to a mandrel that ten allows you to machine the OD .
Then if you want hold it back in the jaws, face to width and any recess or boss required and bore to size.
Just an idea ?

Also I am just having a bit of fun and I hope you don't mind the picture.
Cheers.


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## Brian Rupnow

ausdier--Looks really good!!!--When do you start a build thread??---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Sasquatch. While I'm waiting for some layout dye to dry, I thought I would modify the crankshaft slightly and put up a new drawing to show what I intend to do. This method of building the crankshaft lets me run a ball bearing on the big end of the con rod. I haven't built a crank like this before, but I understand the overall design is quite commonly used in some motorcycles and snowmobiles.


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## jwcnc1911

ausdier, if you want to add bearings to your render you can get free cad models here:

http://www.skf.com/group/knowledge-...nd-seals-cad-models-general-instructions.html

And here:

http://www.jp.nsk.com/app01/en/ctrg/


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## Brian Rupnow

Ausdier--The bearings are .3125" wide with a .375" center bore and a .9062" outer diameter


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## GKNIPP

The trick to this type of crankshaft  is to get everything aligned just right with no runout or wobble.


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## cheepo45

Nice engine design, Brian. I will add it to my list of engines to build someday! Sorry you had to cut your trip south short. I am good friends with aonemarine and I would have liked to meet you. I enjoy your engine designs and postings. Thanks for your contributions. 
    cheepo45


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## Brian Rupnow

Today I built the two sideplates, tapped all of the holes, and got one sideplate bored, but my old butt is dragging and I think I will leave the other side to be bored tomorrow. If anyone wants to know WHY that 3/16" reamed hole looks so damn big----Its because it IS. I misread the drawing and drilled it 3/16" up from the bottom of the plate instead of the 5/16" the drawing calls for. I caught it before I had torn the set-up down (I was drilling both plates together) so went back and put in a 3/8" hole in the correct place. I will make a brass bushing to go in there and people will think it was supposed to be like that!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

Cheepo45--I'm sorry too. There were a number of people and places that I would have liked to see. Thanks for stopping by and saying Hi.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

I just discovered a mistake. And for once its not mine!!! The bearings that I bought for the crankshaft were supposedly 3/8" inner diameter. After I took the sideplate out of the milling machine and installed the bearing, I went to fit a piece of shaft in the bearing, and Whoa Nellie----The damned bearing is 5/16" i.d.!!! I checked on the bearing website and there is a bearing with the same outer diameter and thickness, with a 3/8" bore, but its a #1606, not a 1605 as they gave me at the bearing supply house. I will be speaking to them, first thing tomorrow morning!!!


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> I just discovered a mistake. And for once its not mine!!! The bearings that I bought for the crankshaft were supposedly 3/8" inner diameter. After I took the sideplate out of the milling machine and installed the bearing, I went to fit a piece of shaft in the bearing, and Whoa Nellie----The damned bearing is 5/16" i.d.!!! I checked on the bearing website and there is a bearing with the same outer diameter and thickness, with a 3/8" bore, but its a #1606, not a 1605 as they gave me at the bearing supply house. I will be speaking to them, first thing tomorrow morning!!!


 

Brian , I would go slow on this one. Why?? you or me got the wrong boxing
not really the wright parts in the box. Here are a few pictures of my bearing and number showing that a 1605 is the proper dimension:wall:


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## Cogsy

Brian Rupnow said:


> Ausdier--The bearings are .3125" wide with a .375" center bore and a .9062" outer diameter


 
I don't know what bearing you've actually got there Luc, the OD doesn't match a 1605 or a 1606. Proper dimensions for a 1606 are as Brian posted, but a 1605 has the same .9062 OD just with a 5/16" bore.

I don't have my imperial bearing books anymore, so I can't identify what you've got, but it's not right.


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## ausdier

Thanks for the links JW, I also like http://www.traceparts.com/
Also thanks Brian but I don't think I have the skill or the machines to make one of these for real so I will live in my virtual world for the time being.
Cheers.


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## Brian Rupnow

Ausdier--Too bad, I wish you could have joined us. I guess Australia's honour is going to be upheld by Cogsy!!!


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## canadianhorsepower

> Luc, the OD doesn't match a 1605 or a 1606. Proper dimensions for a 1606 are as Brian posted, but a 1605 has the same .9062 OD just with a 5/16" bore.


+


Cogsy, 
thanks for bringing the outside diameter to my attention. I was sitting in my office with the second bearing in my hand and mesure it had the prorper OD whent back to the garage and man:wall::wall: OD is not the same after checking the number on the seal it's a 1604 it must be the same pack boy
that boxed Brian's bearing that boxe mine

I'll go and change them for 1606


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## Cogsy

Way to pile on the pressure Brian... 

No worries Luc, I used to sell bearings for many years for large manufacturers (SKF, FAG, NTN, etc) and I have never seen a mispackaged bearing before. Looks like you've got the same sort of luck I do


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## Brian Rupnow

I called my bearing guy this morning, all ready to yell his head off. He said "Very Sorry sir--My mistake. They should have been 1606 bearings. I will call right now and have your proper bearings here this afternoon."  No harm, No foul. Fortunately everything else about the bearing as in o.d. and thickness remain the same. Luc--I'm sorry for giving bad information. I just read off the outside of the box I have setting here on my reference table, not knowing that the bearing was too small. If your bearings are 3/8" i.d. x 5/16" thick and the only difference is the o.d. then just bore the cavity in the sideplates and bearing caps to suit your bearings if you don't want to return them.---Brian


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## canadianhorsepower

> Luc--I'm sorry for giving bad information.


 
Hey Brian 
                 nothing to be sorry about **** happen
and in my case it's even worst cause I have to different bearing
a 1604 in a 1605 box

I guess it's god way of punishing me, I was to lazy to go and pick them up
myself........... sent the wife............ now I still have to go

this his what hobby is all about


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## Brian Rupnow

The base and sideplates are finished all except for some cosmetic work. The cylinder head is "In process" on my milling machine. I went down street for supplies and spent a good chunk of the Rupnow fortune on enough brass to make two flywheels and a piece of 1 1/2" diameter grey cast iron for a cylinder. I was beating myself up badly for spending so much money to build "Toys", but when I got home the phone rang and it was a was a customer calling in a panic wanting me to redesign something for them that wasn't working the way they expected it to. (That is GOOD Karma----)


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## Rivergypsy

Ah thats what we like to see - you just can't beat a nice bit of brass


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## Brian Rupnow

The main frame is finished. All the bolts go in (which is always a good sign). My next thing is going to be the funky crankshaft and flywheels, and I look foreword to it with a mixture of excitement and terror. Exciting because I've never made one like this before, terror for the very same reason. I have to do a bit of research about press fits now. I'm hoping I can buy an undersize reamer for the flywheels and press in the 3/8" cold rolled shafts with no other mechanical lock, other than perhaps a little Loctite which claims to be "for press fits".


----------



## Cogsy

Just curious as to how you will align the flywheels for a press fit? I've been wondering that ever since I pulled apart my first 2 stroke dirt bike, but now I'm REALLY curious.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Cogsy--take a close look at the drawing. The 3/8" shafts press fit into the individual flywheel centers. The bolted piece between the flywheels has a 5/16" end on it which is a "close running fit" into a 5/16" hole in the flywheel. to position it, and a ring of bolts to secure it in place. The other end has a 3/8" center diameter for the con rod bearing, then is turned down to 5/16" diameter which is again a "close running fit" into a 5/16" hole in the other flywheel. First piece of 3/8" crankshaft with flywheel and center stub is held in 3 jaw chuck in lathe. Second piece of crankshaft with flywheel only is held in tailstock mounted chuck. This aligns the two pieces of crankshaft. The headstock chuck is rotated until the 5/16" stub on the center piece is lined up with the hole in the second flywheel. They are SLID together (not pressed) until the 3/8" diameter on the center stub is against the side of the second flywheel. Then a nut is screwd onto the center stub and torqued in place . then assembled crankshaft is removed from both chucks.


----------



## RonGinger

Good luck. I remember helping my son put a crank like that together in a dirt bike. There are many ways it can go together,  only one of which is correct.

 I don't think you need the bolted fitting on one end of the rod shaft. Just make it a press fit into each disk. Press it all together, put it between centers, or running in the main bearings, and with a lead hammer whack it around until it runs true. Thats how we got the dirt bike together- and it was the recommended way in the manual

I think you should plan to make truing cut over the 2 disks after they have been pressed onto the shaft ends. Put the end in a 4 jaw and align it very well, then skim the face and rim of the wheel. Now put the true, flat face of the wheel on the mil table and bore the hole for the pin.

On reamers I got a set of over and under reamers for the major fractions from 1/8 to 1/2 from Wholesale Tool several years ago. I has like .374 and .376 Id guess .001 press fit on the shaft might do the job.

Nice project, and very brave to ask 10 guys to follow you, not knowing if its a  path to success, or falling off the cliff  But I am sure, in the end, you will get there.


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## Brian Rupnow

Ron--I've made it though 67 years without too many "cliffs". In a best case scenario, I will have a lot of fun with this and 10 other guys will have built a new engine. In a worst case scenario I will have 10 very ugly people out there. Of course, I prefer the happy ending. The only thing I haven't built before is the wonky crankshaft in this engine. And even if that ends up being a total "no goer", the engine can still be made operational with a more conventional crankshaft. I wouldn't be so bold as to say I was "Going boldly where no man has gone before", but it has a bit of that feel to it. I know that a lot of people are going to hang back and watch to see if this engine is a success. There is nothing wrong with caution. So far it seems like its only Luc and I who are getting into this.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hey Partner,
                   I started working on plates today will post pictures soon on my thread.
My question is this...... Is the air cool and water cool have same head configuration. according to the pictures of photo bucket it does not. 
For those that worry if your bold:hDe: or me stupid:wall: if everything
and I mean everything is a total lost. It will only create a good reason
to start doing foundry work by melting everything backRof}Rof}Rof}to aluminium stock and start all over.;D


cheers

Luc


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc---The head will be the same for both versions. In the water cooled version, the head bolts actually go into the water reservoir and "squeeze" the rim of the cylinder between the water jacket and the cylinder head. In the air cooled version, the head bolts are tapped directly into the cylinder.


----------



## Canman

I'm 23 so I'm young in the engineering game. I've been in the trade 5 years and hitting "cliffs" is all part of the parcel and I love it. I'm ready and eager to make a start on this engine because its going to be my first one. But I'm on me jolly hols at the mo and can't get started yet . I've always been one to jump in and get something done its how I learn. 
Loving reading this thread, and love the fact that an international community can come together and work together all because one man come up with a fantastic idea. My hat is off to you Brian and your marvellous mind. 

Now roll on Thursday when I can get back to my machinery at home and start making some chips for this marvellous engine.


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## Brian Rupnow

My new (correct) bearings #1606-2RS came in this afternoon, and they fit perfect.


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## canadianhorsepower

Look good, Thmne more question is the rod going to be a 2 pcs or single
and what is the rod bearing number??


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## Brian Rupnow

The rod is a one piece unit and it gets the same bearing as the crankshaft. That is why I am going with the bolt together crankshaft---So I can run a ball bearing on the rod journal. There will probably be a bronze bushing in the small end of the con rod. I just haven't shown it yet.


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## Brian Rupnow

Things will slow down a bit now. I had a call from a customer in trouble yesterday and have to do a panic redesign on some automation equipment. This won't be a lot of work but will tie me up for 2 or 3 days. I ordered an undersized reamer this afternoon to ream a "press fit" hole in the flywheels, as that is where I will be moving to next in this build. The flywheels and crankshaft and con rod are all kind of inbred on this engine, so I will probably be working on all of them at once. I discovered no errors in any of the detail drawings I have posted, but I did notice that the top two bolt holes in the circular array on the cylinder heads is missing, so I will repost that drawing right now.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

I can't figure out how to go back and change an attached pdf file, so I will just repost it here. There were no errors, just a missing dimension.--No, can't do that--there is something screwy with the forum tonight--can't attach a pdf. A jpeg will have to do.


 

View attachment CYLINDER HEAD-RUPNOW.PDF


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## rodw

Brian Rupnow said:


> Ausdier--Too bad, I wish you could have joined us. I guess Australia's honour is going to be upheld by Cogsy!!!



And it will be in good hands I am sure.


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## Cogsy

Thanks for your (misplaced?) confidence in me Rod Thm:

Rest assured Brian, I'm with you. I'm just waiting for some funds to clear so I can order some materials. I don't have anything in stock to start just yet. I fully intend to have my first part finished this week.


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## Brian Rupnow

cogsy---I'm looking foreword to seeing your first post. That will make 2 Canadians, one Englishman and one Aussie building this engine.--This makes all the other nationalities out there either A----Wimps for holding back and not joining us., or B---People wiser than us who are going to set back in the bush and wait to see if this engine is successful!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

View attachment FLYWHEEL-2-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

View attachment FLYWHEEL-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

View attachment FLYWHEEL CENTER SHAFT-1-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

View attachment FLYWHEEL CENTER SHAFT-2-RUPNOW.PDF


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


>


 
Brian; adding all this mass to the crank  your not affraid it's going to jump
all over the place when running


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## Brian Rupnow

Yes Luke, you are probably right. I was trying to keep the flange the same diameter as the o.d. of the con rod. I will do a redesign on that part.---Brian


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## Path

Brian Rupnow said:


> cogsy---I'm looking foreword to seeing your first post. That will make 2 Canadians, one Englishman and one Aussie building this engine.--This makes all the other nationalities out there either A----Wimps for holding back and not joining us., or B---People wiser than us who are going to set back in the bush and wait to see if this engine is successful!!!




Hey ... Don't count me out yet.  I'm just under the weather a bit but will be posting soon. So far I have been only watching as I can't get shop time until I'm fully functional.  
What I have done is taken the Base drawing and modeled it using SW2013, will be doing the same for the two side plates ... probably today.
Hope to be posting Monday next week or sooner.

Pat H.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> Yes Luke, you are probably right. I was trying to keep the flange the same diameter as the o.d. of the con rod. I will do a redesign on that part.---Brian


 
Brian, why not use a simple keyway on the shaft and pully and
a bolt at the end with a washer


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## Brian Rupnow

This drawing has been revised as of 6:30PM on 26-June-2013


 

View attachment SUB ASSY CRANKSHAFT-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

This is a new drawing not posted before.


 

View attachment CRANKSHAFT SPACER-2.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This drawing has been revised 6:56 pm on 26-July-2013


 

View attachment CRANKSHAFT SPACER-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I have reworked the crankshaft drawings and reposted the drawings which were affected. I realize that I could have probably used a crankpin that was turned down and threaded at both ends, and probably have saved some work (maybe a lot of work) in the process. However---I have had problems with that on another engine so this time I am going to the circular array of #5 socket head capscrews. I have lightened the crankpin as much as I dare, and also lightened the aluminum spacers. I know this may seem like a lot of offset rotating mass, but think about the weight in the crank throws on a "typical" crankshaft.---This engine doesn't have any "throws", so the offset weight difference between this crankshaft and one of a more "typical" style is not all that great. If I find that this engine has any issue with "out of balance" (greater than any other hit and miss style engine) then I will drill a few holes in the flywheels themselves to balance things.--That's one thing that you can easily do when you have solid flywheels.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And one lonely piston----


 

View attachment PISTON-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Allright!!! ---I have put out my customers various engineering panic related fires, and now its time to do some serious flywheeling. Damn, I hate it when REAL WORK interferes with my "play work"---but then again, that's how I can afford brass for my flywheels. I am trying to come up with a good plan of attack for these flywheels. Since I am making them from brass bar, I think I will lay out the two flywheels on the bar, then clamp the bar to the table of my mill with a piece of sacrificial aluminum under it. I will then drill and ream the two undersized center holes. This will ensure that the holes are at perfect right angles to the face of the bar in both planes. Then I will remove the bar, saw it in half, turn a slightly undersized center alignment shaft to put through the undersized holes, and clamp the double thickness of bar to my mill table again with a bit of sacrificial aluminum under them, and drill and ream the two .75" offset holes for the crankpin at the same time. Then I will remove them from the table and separate them, saw out the rough 4" diameters on my bandsaw and press in an extra long 3/8" shaft on each one, allowing about 2" of shaft to stick out on the "blank" side of the flywheel. This will give me something to hold onto with the chuck while I turn the o.d. to an exact 4" diameter and do the machining required on the face of each blank. When the metal supplier went to cut a piece of 4" x 3/4" brass flatbar for me, he found that all he had was 4" x 1" flatbar, so he gave it to me for the same price. This means I get to do a clean-up cut on the flat side which has no features. Then I will cut off the "extra long" bit of shaft in the lathe.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

So, what did we learn today?--Today we learned that a reamed hole in aluminum with a .3735 reamer and a .374 cold rolled shaft is not really a press fit. Oh, its not a "push it through with your fingers" fit, but it sure isn't enough interference to hold a flywheel in place on the shaft. Oh, POOP!!! Next thing I will do is try it in brass and see what happens. We live---We learn!!!!


----------



## Jasonb

Brian you can always add a very light Knurl to the shaft to make it grow a bit. Straight knurl is preferable but diamond will do if you only have that pattern wheels


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I may just buy a foot of drill rod, which apparently comes in on size or slightly over. I have lots of options. Will figure it out tomorrow after I ream the brass flywheels.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

As promised, in process shots. This is two flywheels in the very first stage of "becoming"---laid out and center holes reamed to .3735. And the crankshaft pin, standing at one end,  made from 7/8" cold rolled with one end yet to be machined. Fitted this much in today along with half a days engineering work and a trip to the Dairy Queen with 3 grandkids to celebrate the last day of public school for this year.--Yum Yum--


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I picked up a foot of 3/8" drill rod this afternoon, which mikes at .3755. I am very tempted to try the hot/cold shrink fit method. I wasn't going to do that because the heat would ruin the finish on the brass flywheels but if I press the shafts into the rough sawn brass flywheel blanks it will all clean up during the machining process. I may cut my shafts to 2" longer than finished size and leave them in the freezer overnight. If I can stick the two rough turned brass blanks in Momma's cooking oven, or maybe even the barbeque for an hour that should do it. I will press the shafts completely through each flywheel so I have something to mount in the lathe chuck from each side to turn the flywheels. Then I can trim the end off that I don't want. I might have to polish .005 off the end of the shaft that goes thru the ball bearing.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

The crankshaft or "crank pin" and the spacers are finished except for the threads and lightening holes. It is shown here, assembled with the con-rod bearing setting in the center. I'm really not certain whether the lightening holes are needed, or even if they will have any effect at all, but since I have to set up the rotary table anyways to put the threaded holes in the crankpin, its not a big deal to pop in a few extra holes. I'm still chewing on exactly what process I am going to employ for retaining the crankshaft end portions in the flywheels. The heat shrink process has a certain appeal, but knowing what a klutz I am, and the thought of carrying smoking hot brass flywheels from the kitchen oven, across the laminate kitchen floor and down the carpeted staircase and out into my garage where the arbor press lives is pretty damned intimidating.----Mrs. Rupnow can be pretty damned intimidating for that matter, and its her kitchen!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

In his marvelous book, "The shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos", he shows this method of retaining a flywheel to the crankshaft. Unfortunately none of the text shown refers to the picture, but what he says is "After pressing, and just to play safe, drill a 3/32" diameter hole --whose diameter is half in the shaft and half in the flywheel. Press in a roll pin and then cut it flush to the surface."---I don't know if a drill will cut half in brass and half in steel, or if it would try to wander off to the brass side because of less resistance than in the steel shaft.--The crankshaft in the picture is 3/8" diameter, same as mine, but his flywheel is steel, not brass.--What do you think, guys?


----------



## Path

Brian,
I would increase the hole size to .125 then drill using the standard 60* centerdrill probably #1. Also I would off set the hole so that the brass would have say 60% of the roll pin. Finally I would try it out first on some scrap material. 

Pat H.


----------



## Jasonb

I have used the method several times to stop ROTATION of a pressed on part, its not really one to stop latteral movement. The ones I have done mave used solid pins locktited into tight holes.

A drill will wander into the brass but you could plunge cut with an end cutting milling cutter but would not ant to try it at 3/4"

You can see a couple of pins in this shot on the upper gear at 1 & 7 o'clock


----------



## kvom

For the shrink fit there's no need to carry the parts out of the kitchen.  They should slide together, so just assemble directly from oven/freezer.  Arbor press not needed.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Here are the flywheels in the second stage of "becoming". I have sawed the main block of brass in half and put a close fitting alignment dowel through the center holes. Again, I have lain them flat on the milling machine table with a pair of parallels underneath them to protect the mill table from "drill thru". I have cobbled together a hold down strap from some steel flat bar and threaded rod to secure everything in place. I pick up on the end of the alignment dowel to find true center, then offset 0.75" and drill and ream .312 thru both plates. Then while I am still set up, I drill and counterbore for the five #5 socket head capscrews. (But only to a total depth of 7/8". The bar I have is 1", not 3/4" so 1/4" will be machined of the far face of the top block. I didn't want the 5 bolt pattern to appear in the lower flywheel.) The remaining holes in the outer corners which will be sawn off have been drilled and reamed with my new undersized 0.3735 reamer so that I can do some press fit testing on scrap before I get to the real thing.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This was a morning well spent. Its starting to get exciting now!!! Tomorrow I may have a finished crankshaft assembly.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

No more work today!!! Two flywheels in a day is enough for anybody.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Experimentation has shown me that 0.374" cold rolled shaft is a press fit into a .3735 reamed hole, but not really a killer press fit. I was able to press the shafts in using my small manual arbor press. However, with the addition of a bit of green Loctite #648 it fits well enough and tight enough that I was able to chuck the rod in the 3 jaw chuck on my lathe and do the turning required on both flywheels.--With both flywheels, they heated up enough under heavy machining that the Loctite let go and they "spun" on the shaft. Only a very little bit, mind you, but they did spin. As soon as they cooled down they had a good grip again. Part of this was due to the Loctite letting go and part perhaps to the expansion of the brass, although it didn't get THAT hot. You are correct about the drill rod not fitting through the ball bearings. This can very easily be "fixed" by spinning the drill rod at about 600 RPM in my lathe and holding some 220 grit emery paper against it. My plan at the moment is to use the drill rod as my crankshaft ends. I will polish the part which must fit through the bearings and leave the part unpolished which fits into the brass flywheels. This will give me an additional 1 1/2 thou interference over what I currently have. I have to go into one of the manufacturing companies that I provide engineering services for on Tuesday, and they have a small hydraulic press, so I will take my new flywheels and drill rod crankshaft bits over with me and press the shafts into the wheels over there. I may have to take a skim cut off the flat (mating) face of both flywheels after I do this. I really don't want a "wobbly" crankshaft when I get finished.----Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

A second revision has been added to this drawing 30-june 2013. I had the wrong dimension on the bolt circle diameter for the lightening holes.--However the ordinate dimensions locating them were correct.


 

View attachment CRANKSHAFT-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

In keeping with my "one part per day " philosophy, I managed to whittle out a connecting rod today. I think it looks a little goofy with that enormous "big end" on it, but Hey, if you go all ball bearing, that's the way it has to be. I have drilled and tapped all of the holes in the crankpin, and put in all of the lightening holes as per drawings posted. My initial plan was to Loctite the bearing into the big end of the connecting rod, but I'm going to put that idea on hold for the moment. I want to get the cylinder and water jacket made and installed, and see if there are any alignment issues before I do any Loctiting. It is very critical that the crankpin be perfectly square to the central axis of the cylinder, to avoid any tight spots or binding in the crankshaft. Once I have test assembled everything, and see that it runs freely, then I will finish drilling the dowel pin holes in the frame and put dowel pins in, and do any Loctiting I deem necessary.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Now---Before you all jump in to remind me that I haven't made any provision for a cylinder oiler----I know that. I have a plan-----And for anybody building this engine as an air cooled version, I will post the drawing of the air cooled cylinder when you are ready for it.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This is the air cooled cylinder, which is a direct "bolt on" to make the engine air cooled instead of water cooled.


 

View attachment AIR COOLED CYLINDER-RUPNOW.PDF


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian,

 are my eyes cross or if there's a mistake in the drawing
you have two different bolt pattern for the head if it's air cool or water cool?

Cheers


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Luc--The air cooled cylinder is rotated 90 degrees to the right in the drawing, so that the "top" is actually on the right hand side. The bolt pattern is the same as the water cooled version.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Brian ,
this is what happen when you read drawing without glasses Rof}Rof}
I'll be posting pictures later today, bottom plate ,side plate cyl head
bearing cap 

I couldn't get the material on time for the flywheel
cheers


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Great stuff Luc!!! I had the water cooled cylinder drawings posted briefly but I have taken them down because of some "fitment" issued that were showing up. I will repost them after I have built them and resolved any issues. You are safe to go ahead and make the air cooled cylinder.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I was working this morning, machining the cylinder for the water cooled version of this engine, when I had a sudden terrible thought.---What if I can't get an o-ring the size I need? Wife had some serious gardening planned (Great way to celebrate Canada day), so I shut down the lathe and went to play in the garden.  Of course by the time we got finished, I needed a shower, and then I needed a nap--getting old sucks!!! Finally made it down to the computer and looked up 1 1/8" i.d. x 1/8" cross section O-rings, and it is a standard size, #216.-Ah, I knew it was all along. Should never doubt myself!! Anyways, I'm too pooped to do any more machining today. This idea of having a water jacket which seals to the cylinder with an o-ring at each end instead of a press fit has been on my mind for a long time. I used a press fit seal on both the Kerzel and the Odds and Ends hit and miss engines and they worked, and have never leaked. I will build this engine with o-ring seals, and see how well it works. I have every reason to think it will work fine, and if it does, I avoid the craziness of interference fits between the cylinder and water jacket. If it doesn't work as well as I thought, then I will remake either the cylinder or the water jacket and make it a press fit. I will have the cylinder, water jacket and seal ring finished by next weekend, so let me make it and test it before I lead someone down the garden path.


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian,
I'm going air cool, give me your opinion

for one I hate cast:hDe:
I was going to go alu for the piston
SS for the cylinder
and put a press fit aluminium over the sleeve
and the run the fin on it:hDe:


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Luc--Firstly, I think the air cooled cylinder will be a lot less work.  Since this engine is intended to be a "hit and miss", it will draw in enough room temperature air during the "miss" cycles, that it probably doesn't need to be water cooled.-That is what other experienced engine builders have told me, and I believe them. I like the water reservoir style, but that's just a personal thing. Aluminum for the piston should be fine. I have an aluminum piston running in a 316 stainless cylinder on my Kerzel hit and miss engine, and it performs fine using a Viton o-ring. I think many of the long time engine builders really like cast iron for the cylinder and piston because of its high carbon content, which makes it somewhat "self lubricating---which is especially important if you are going to use cast iron rings. With a Viton ring you can use almost any material for piston and cylinder as long as it has a nice smooth finish on the inside of the cylinder. The question of a stainless cylinder with aluminum sleeve fins pressed on---I don't like that so much. Even with a heat conductive copper paste at the joint between the two surfaces, you don't get very good heat transfer. I have a lot of experience with heat transfer between two surfaces, and it just doesn't work efficiently. You can try it and see. If you don't plan on running your engine for long periods of time or under any "load" condition, you MIGHT get away with it. That's the best advice I can give.---Brian


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## Goldflash

Gents , With reference to using Stainless steel for the Liner. I would not use it. On my Sterling Engine I used a stainless steel liner for the power cylinder ( Finned for Air Cooling )  in conjunction with Aluminium Fins as per what Luc is trying to use. The power piston is cast iron. 
The bore was 22 mm and the  piston to bore clearance about .001 inch. 
The Liner was Heat Shrink Fit in Cylinder to get maximum heat transfer and the external surface of the sleeve was fine polished as well as the bore of the cylinder.   
Any dirt or carbon that gets in there will pick up on the stainless and cause problems.
The Cylinder does run hot after a period of time. 
In hindsight I should've used cast iron for the cylinder liner and possibly have turned the complete cylinder out of cast iron as it does tend to be self lubricating.
( I get my Cast Iron from a local foundry and they normally give me the sum off cuts for a 12 pack of beer ) 
Next time I get the Sterling Engine pulled apart I will get the piston Teflon Coated so I can run the sterling engine non lubricated.   
Regards Ralph


----------



## Goldflash

Just some further though with regards to cooling.
In most 4 stroke OHV engines only about 20% of the heat created in the combustion process is dissipated by the cylinder cooling system. 
The cylinder is also partially cooled by the intake cycle and cold gas entering the cylinder and when the piston is at TDC some heat is lost to the crankcase atmosphere. 
The Cylinder Head  however ( overhead valve ) has to do most of the cooling as it also has the exhaust port generating a huge amount of the heat that it has to deal with. 
Maybe some fins milled on the cylinder head would help reduce the heat build up. 
Had a bit of experience in Cogeneration and reclaiming waste heat from big Gas Engines. ie Lube Oil / Engine Jacket Water / Exhaust Gas 
Ralph


----------



## Brian Rupnow

You're going to need a couple of these---


 

View attachment VALVE CAGE-RUPNOW ENGINE.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And these--


 

View attachment VALVE KEEPER-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And one last bit before I have to go out to see a customer---


 

View attachment PUSH ROD GUIDE-RUPNOW.PDF


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi Brian ,
 their are 2 length missing on the valve (see picture)

I decide to go with a meddle bearing on the big rod end, more contact surface


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## Jasonb

You don't need a dimension for either as you have the OD and stem dia plus the angle.

J


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Jasonb said:


> You don't need a dimension for either as you have the OD and stem dia plus the angle.
> 
> J


 
what your saying is to cut at 92 degree till I reach .125 in diameter


----------



## Jasonb

Or just a bit of simple triganometry.

Easiest way is to support the 1/8" end with your tailstock ctr and machine down the 5/16" stock to the required 1/8" dia say 1/4" over length. Then cut your angle before parting off leaving the 0.025" .

You can then hold the valve in a collet or split bush and machine to the correct O/A length removing the centre drioll hole in the process and you don't even need to know what the two lengths in question were.

J


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## Brian Rupnow

Valve reposted with one dimension added.


 

View attachment VALVE -RUPNOW ENGINE.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

And this afternoons workshop adventure brings us--TA-DA--A cast iron cylinder!!! Its not honed nor lapped yet, but that will happen tomorrow morning. I had to work over at a customers factory this morning, and it was close enough to the Hercules o-ring warehouse that I picked up two #216 size O-rings. The black one is just common elastomer, but the brown one which sets closest to the head is Viton. I probably don't need the high heat capacity Viton o-ring, but they are all the same price so I figured I might as well get one. The cylinder is a "close" fit into the counterbore in the head.--that's what's holding it there for the picture. The bolts actually thread into the water reservoir and "squeeze" the cylinder against the head---and yes, there will be a head gasket between the far side of that flange on the cylinder and the cylinder head.


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## jwcnc1911

Man, your making good time on this engine Brian!  Nothing like being responsible for other people's time and money to motivate you, huh?  Looking good.  I can't wait to see it run.  It's been enjoyable up to this point for sure seeing this "independent team build" going down.


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks JWCNC---It always gives me encouragement to see that other people are following my thread.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

I had to do some head scratching to come up with a place to put the cylinder oil cup. I admit--I just plain forgot the darn thing with my initial design. Remember I said I had a plan---Well, there is no reason for the water cooling reservoir to be so long. The last inch of the cylinder farthest from the cylinder head serves no real purpose other than to give a place for the piston to slide in. There is no combustion happening back at that end. However, I like the look of the large water reservoir. To solve my problem of where to put the oil cup, I shortened the water reservoir by 1/16", thickened up the "water jacket retaining ring" by 1/16" to 3/8" thick, and put the oil cup which is 5/16" outside diameter through the center of the retaining ring and the top of the cylinder. Of course, this means I can't really drill the hole for it until the entire engine is assembled, but that's okay. It just gets loctited into place anyways.


----------



## cfellows

You guys might want to consider a built up flywheel like Randall Cox used on his Hoglet motor cycle engine.  It has a steel core inserted into a brass tube section.  You could also use a steep pipe section instead of brass.







It would sure be a lot cheaper than solid brass.  Of course, there is always the option of machining them from solid steel.  12L14 would be nice to work with.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

You are absolutely right Chuck. I am still doing enough outside engineering work to pay for the extra cost of brass, but if I were on any kind of budget, I would have made the flywheels from steel.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

There is a lot of work in this water reservoir. The first stage was getting it squared up and milled to size. Then I set it up in the 4 jaw chuck and drilled through it using successively larger drills in 1/8" increments. When I got up to 1/2" diameter, I could feel the drill thump-thump-thumping on the inner ends of the jaws in the chuck. I held my breath and loosened off the two opposing jaws on the narrow sides of the reservoir, and inserted a 3/8" parallel under the jaw on each side, then VERY carefully close them again with a prayer to the machining gods that I didn't move my set-up. It didn't move, or if it did it didn't move enough to be apparent. I then drilled up to 15/16" with my silver and demmings drills, then switched over to my cheapo carbide tipped boring bars. When I was getting close to final size, I backed my cross slide out in .001 radial increments until the cylinder (which you can see setting up on top of the lathe) just fit. Remember, this isn't a press fit, but I didn't want it sloppy. Tomorrow or perhaps later today I will put in a different boring bar and bore the actual water jacket cavity and the counterbore in the exposed end.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Brian ,can I go electronic  ignition??


----------



## chucketn

Brian,
19 drawings so far, counting the one revision of the sideplate? I want to make sure I have all of them.

Chuck


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## dalem9

Brain use A 3/32 end mill . Dale


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## Brian Rupnow

There comes a time in every job, where you have to stop and ask yourself "How the heck do I do that?" After I put the 1 1/8 bore all the way through the water reservoir, and hogged out the center cavity, I thought "How do I hold this thing to round it off in the rotary table, and at what point do I put the counterbores in each end for the O-rings." After a bit of head scratching, I turned a piece of 1 1/4" aluminum down to 1 1/8" diameter and inserted it through the reservoir, stopping just short of the deepest counterbore in the one end. I dabbed on a bit of green Loctite just to firm everything up, then drilled a clearance hole through the body of the reservoir that will later be machined out, and tapped a 1/4"-20 thread into the round aluminum stock for a 1/4" hex head bolt. This gave me a nice solid "handle" that was concentric to the bore in the reservoir. This in turn let me mount it on the lathe to cut the counterbore, and in the chuck on the rotary table to do the rounding off. I will also hold it in the rotary table chuck when I turn the rotary table 90 degrees to align the hole in the reservoir vertically to put the hole pattern in one end in the mill. Then I will remove the bolt, tap the round aluminum out of the reservoir, and flip the reservoir around the other way to cut the counterbore in the opposite end and to do the second bolt pattern in the opposite end.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

canadianhorsepower said:


> Brian ,can I go electronic  ignition??


 Luc--You most certainly can. I am more comfortable with the old style points ignition, but that's just me. If you are comfortable with electronic ignition, then by all means go for it.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

chucketn said:


> Brian,
> 19 drawings so far, counting the one revision of the sideplate? I want to make sure I have all of them.
> 
> Chuck


Have no fear Chuck---When I get all of the drawings finished I will put them all into a downloadable file as pdf files and post a link to them. That way you won't have to worry about missing any of them.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> Luc--You most certainly can. I am more comfortable with the old style points ignition, but that's just me. If you are comfortable with electronic ignition, then by all means go for it.---Brian


 
Brian I can send you a set up if you whant


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Luc, but I'll stick with what I know. ---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Trust me on this---the picture in no way reflects the amount of work involved in getting this far on the water reservoir!!!! The good news is, that everything fits tight and bolts up perfectly. This is no small feat, as the 8 counterbored holes in the cylinder head and the 8 threaded holes in the water reservoir were all drilled using ordinate dimensions on a mill that has no electronic scales. I'm a little cross eyed tonight from counting turns and partial turns of the dials on my X and Y axis. I still have to put a counterbore for the o-ring and a set of 8 more tapped holes in the end that you can see, and cut away the actual water reservoir down to the water jacket boring around the cylinder. So far---so good. If I don't mess anything up tomorrow the water reservoir will be finished and all that's left to make is the o-ring retainer that bolts onto the end of the reservoir that you can see.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This is all I have for this mornings offerings. I want to finish off that water reservoir this morning and then take my grandkids swimming.----Brian


 

View attachment GOVERNOR BODY.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Good Lord!!! If I had known how much work this water reservoir was going to be-----I'd of probably made it anyways. Bur right now my back and feet are killing me from standing at the mill most of the day. I'm going to take tomorrow off and go to a hotrod show.  I still have to machine a fancy little cover for this one (probably with a round hole in the top) but that's work for another day.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I'm off to a hotrod show today. For once, its not raining this morning, and I'm a bit burned out from machining things. Little engines are great, but they have a tendency to eat up my life when I get involved with one.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Be nice to me today boys, its my birthday!!! Hit the big 67 today.--Todays Ringo Star's birthday too, but he never calls me!!! I spent a lovely day at a "town festival/classic car show" yesterday, and it was great. I really needed a break from machining for a day. I'm up early this morning, so decided to do up the detail for the governor stempost and put it up. I will keep on detailing until goodwife gets up, and MIGHT get the governor arms done too. I have kids and grandkids coming today to celebrate "Poppa's birthday", so probably won't be making any parts today.----Brian


 

View attachment GOVERNOR STEMPOST.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And of course, you're going to need 3 of these, to hang your balls on----


 

View attachment GOVERNOR ARM.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

And the balls themselves---


 

View attachment .625 BRASS BALL-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

I think I have the "Lions share" of the large parts for this engine almost all built. I still have to hone and lap the cylinder, then build a piston to suit it. I am going to (hopefully) get this engine running as a simple 4 cycle engine before  go on to add the governor.


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## Cogsy

Happy Birthday Brian! Hope it's a good one.

Just to let you know I am still here, but some personal and family dilemmas have put me far behind on your build. I did make it into the shed today, and I even managed my first chips on your engine, but many tribulations and no parts yet. Soon though, I promise!


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## Brian Rupnow

Hello Al--Nice to hear from you. I hope your troubles soon resolve themselves. I'm not sure how many people are going to actually have the resolve to build this engine. In the initial flurry and excitement there were about 5 people stepping up, but I'm not seeing too many posts from them. I haven't encountered anything particularly difficult so far, but there is a lot of work in the water jacket if people choose to go that route. I kind of like the look of the air cooled version, and hope someone builds it as well----I think Luc, the French Canadian chap was moving in that direction. Of course, when I build something, I kind of fly at it like a maniac, to the exclusion of almost everything else going on in my life, and I can't really expect others to approach things the same way.---Brian


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## canadianhorsepower

Happy Birthday Brian Thm:
Is it possible all the drawings in PDF
it makes it easier for me to play around with them

Cheers


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## Brian Rupnow

Thank you Luc--All the drawings are done in pdf as well as jpg formats.--Whoops--I contradict myself!! I see that the last 2 or 3 aren't in there as pdf files.--I will go right now and add the pdf files to each drawing posted.---Brian


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## canadianhorsepower

Hey Brian do you have the connecting rod in PDF also?


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--It is up as a pdf back at post #101. I'm curious--What can you do with a pdf that you can't do with a jpg.?


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> Luc--It is up as a pdf back at post #101. I'm curious--What can you do with a pdf that you can't do with a jpg.?


 
Brian, oops I miss it,:fan:
the 2 main reason why I prefer PDF, I use a Dropbox to share all my folders from one computer to another, I can be anywhere in the world and access them. Like any of those program space matter look at the number below

a jpeg takes 347kb of space and 
a pdf takes 110kb and have a paper size to print 17x11 ho I hit print and their is goes
with a JPG I have to find a good % of scale.
I also like keeping all my files together


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Luc--I didn't realize that.


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## Brian Rupnow

And here I am at the hotrod show yesterday!! It was a beautiful summers day (which we've had too few of this year) and a nice venue. Small town festival/carnival/carshow. ---And only about 60 miles from my place. The car is a 1931 model A Ford roadster pickup that I built about 10 years ago, with small block Chev power. I have driven that car down to the street rod nationals in Moncton, New Brunswick, across the new bridge to Prince Edward Island, and around the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton. Its been driven through many of the Northeastern states of USA and almost everywhere worth going in Ontario. Hotrods and drag racing were my lifes hobby up until about 5 years ago, when my arthritis got so bad that I had to switch to a hobby that can mostly be done while standing or sitting--i.e. machining small engines.


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## Canman

Many happy returns sir. I'm still with you on this build I've been getting materials together and have started to make some chips lol. But had to stop as I've had to do some emergency rpairs to my lathe (dammit haha). I'm goin for the Air coold version aswell.
By the way love the car.


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## dalem9

Brain were do I download the plans from . Thanks Dale


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## Brian Rupnow

You start at the beginning of this thread and every where I have posted a detail drawing, you will see a link to a pdf file in the bottom left hand corner of the post. It is in blue color, so you shouldn't be able to miss it.---BRIAN


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## Brian Rupnow

Todays plan is to finish off the cast iron cylinder and hopefully machine a piston to fit it. Many people have asked how I go about this, and so  thought I would post my answers. To accomplish the actual honing, which knocks down any high spots or scratches inside the cylinder, I use a spring loaded 3 stone brake cylinder honing tool which sells for about $20 at Canadian Tire and similar automotive stores. The 3 "arms" are spring loaded outward by the compression spring on the shank of the tool, and by turning the knurled collar, more or less force can be applied to the arms. This tool is held in a variable speed electric drill, and compressed to fit into the cylinder, along with some light oil, then worked from end to end in even strokes, taking care to not let it extend past the front or rear of the cylinder and spring open. I generally do this and count slowly to 50, which seems to be sufficient time to do this size of cylinder in the 3/4" to 1 1/14" diameter range. This particular hone was faulty, and one of the stones come loose while in use. This didn't hurt the cylinder in any way, as the stone stayed located properly in its holder during the honing operation. I will return it to the store today and pick up a new honing tool.


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## Brian Rupnow

I find that when I use a reamer to make the finished bore in a cylinder, it generally comes out pretty well "dead nuts" on the spec of the reamer. The hole in this cylinder was at a diameter of 0.875" immediately after reaming. The honing operation opened it out about another half thou, to .8755" diameter. Since cold rolled steel shafting comes in at about .0005 undersize, this will act as a perfect size lap, about .001" less than the i.d. of the cylinder. I have a package of 600 grit carborundum base lapping compound which I spread onto the cold rolled, then carefully work it fully into the bore of the cylinder. after working the lap in and out by had with a twisting motion, and being certain that it turns freely enough and isn't going to "grab" I put the cold rolled in the 3 jaw chuck on my lathe, and with the lathe on its lowest speed, CAREFULLY hold onto the cylinder with one hand and work it back and forth about 1" linearly as the lathe rotates. If the cylinder tries to :grab" at any tme--LET IT GO!!! We don't want your arm wrapped up in the lathe in any way.


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## Brian Rupnow

Here we have the lap coated with 600 grit oil based carborundum paste, and inserted into the cylinder by hand. It will go rather stiffly at first, but after a few manual passes, will free up considerably. At this point, when it is moving FREELY-we take it over to the lathe.


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## Brian Rupnow

And then we move to the lathe room---


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## Brian Rupnow

A plain old chunk of 6061 aluminum round stock set up in 3 jaw on my lathe, faced on exposed end, and turned to 0.878 with HSS tooling. Then  using a piece of 220 grit emery cloth, brought down in diameter until it just fits a bit snugly into end of cylinder. I will work it back and forth in the cylinder bore with a bit more of that 600 grit carborundum paste when I get to the final stages.


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## kvom

When I honed the bore of my flame eater, I held it in the lathe and moved the hone by hand.  Should be equivalent to the electric drill method.  I would have thought that would be sufficiently smooth to not need the lapping paste.


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## Brian Rupnow

While still in the same set-up, use a 3/4" 2 flute endmill to cut the 3/4" diameter x 1/4" deep recess in the bottom of the piston, cut the ring groove, and part the piston off from its parent stock.--Just before it seperates, give it another light touch with the emery cloth, because both the parting off and the cutting of the ring groove will raise the material on each side of the cut to prevent the piston from going into the cylinder.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well, we're almost there with the piston. We have parted it off and moved it over to the mill vice to plunge cut the slot that the end of the con rod sets in. This set-up wasn't as stable as I would have liked---I' still getting used to my new vice from LittleMachineShop. After plunge cutting the slot, the piston was turned 90 degrees and cross bored for the wrist pin. I always struggle with this operation, because not only does the piston have to set perfectly level in the vice, but the rotation of the center slot has to be exactly at 90 degrees to the centre axis of the wrist pin hole. I generally find a piece of material that is a tight fit in the slot and let it stick out far enough past the end of the piston that I can get a level on it.
Then after drilling and reaming the wrist pin hole, I flip the piston open end up to drill and tap the threads for the wrist pin retaining screw. The piston is finished now, but wait---there is one more critical step. Remember I had emeried the outer diameter of the piston until it would just barely fit into the cylinder. Well, that's not good enough for a running engine. This is the point where you attach the piston to the connecting rod, slather the cylinder bore with some more 600 grit compound, and try to put the piston thru the cylinder. It will stick and bind, and refuse to go all the way through. You have to rotate it, push it in and out slightly, wiggle it a bit, swear a little bit, keep working it back and forth, and eventually it will slide from one end of the cylinder to the other with that beautiful full contact smoothness that you need to feel. Then wash the cylinder, piston, and con rod in some hot soapy water and some varsol to make absolutely shure that all the carborundum paste is out of there, and you have a finished piston!!!


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## Path

Brian ...

Nice work,  been following your progress and modeling it as you go. I'm using your SW models provided and well as the PDFs. Had a setback in my cold  so I've only been doing paper work ... to machine I'll have to get feeling much better.

Have a question ... 

Any chance that you may be ready to post the PDFs for the Cylinder and Waterjacket? 

Had a few others but answered them myself!

Thanks,

Pat H.


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## Brian Rupnow

Alright--I have finished the water cooled cylinder, the water reservoir, and the the water reservoir retaining ring. They were a little more involved than I had first thought they were going to be, but not bad.--Just a lot of hours. --So--Herewith are the associated drawings.---Brian











 

View attachment CYLINDER-RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment WATER JACKET RETAINER-RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment WATER JACKET-RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment RESERVOIR COVER.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

I spent this afternoon pressing out the old 3/8" cold rolled shafts from the flywheels and pressing in the new 3/8" drill rod which will form the end pieces of the crankshaft. I miss-spoke in the video--the drill rod is actually .3755" outer diameter, not .375 as I say. That's why I had to polish it down to .375" everywhere but the area which fits into the brass flywheels. I have assembled everything to check for clearance issues, and there don't appear to be any. I did use some Loctite 648 retaining compound which claims to be for "press fits" on the part of the shaft that engages the flywheel. This is the first time I have had all of the parts together. Its always a bit of a thrill for me when I see everything together for the first time.


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## Brian Rupnow

What to do next??? That's a good question. The really critical things that simply MUST work in concert with one and other are all done.--And they do work, seemingly very well. I have tightened all of the  bolts and Hooray!! Everything still turns freely. I know that I have built everything on the side with the gears on it at least 3 times now. (I was actually "gifted" my first set of gears on my first i.c. engine build, the Webster). I do know that right now, while everything is tightened up and there are no "binds" anywhere in the system would be a good time to finish all of the drilling and dowelling, so that this current assembly is "repeatable". I will probably have everything apart and back together again another two dozen times before the engine is ready to run. This engine was designed to have a spacer washer between the outsides of the flywheels and the inside of the sideframes. They were designed to be equal on both sides, but, invariably they always end up different, due to stack up of tolerances and "a few thou here/a few thou there" machining. Perhaps tomorrow would be a good time to slide some feeler gauges in on each side and determine what thicknesses my two spacer washers must be.


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## Brian Rupnow

Either I'm getting better or else I'm getting luckier!!! I was able to keep both spacers that fit between the flywheels and the outer frames the same at 0.050" wide. If I go strictly by the calculated figures, they should have each been .064" wide, but I knew that my center piece which joins the two flywheels was a tad too long after I pulled it out of the lathe and measured it.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I feel like doing something outrageous today!!! I have been machining like a madman, wanting to work my way through all of the major engine parts before any of the other people building this engine might discover (God forbid) an error in one of my drawings. It seems that the drawings were all okay, and the main portion of the body, crankshaft, con-rod and cylinder all fit together and work well together. I feel that a lot of the "pressure" is off, and today I'm going to machine something for fun. I have this really nasty, crusty, piece of aluminum that I picked up somewhere that has been kicking around in my shop forever. Today this ugly duckling is going to transform itself into a swan---A governor body style swan, as it happens to have all the dimensions required. I may have to stop at some point and take my grand daughters for a swim, but hey, that's okay too!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

The water was COLD!!!Brrrrrr. Its been a very backward spring here, with a lot of rain, but enough high temperatures that the lakes are warm enough for swimming---barely!!! 9 year old grand daughter swims like a fish. 5 Year old granddaughter lies like a rug--Tells everybody she can swim--but she can't. I thought grandpa better get in the lake with her and see where the truth is before some trusting adult buys her line and lets her jump off the end of the dock!! Looks like another winter of swimming lessons for the younger one.--Oh yes---The engine---I got my "one part per day" obligation fulfilled. Turned that ugly block of aluminum from the previous post into a very nice governor body. Damn, I like it when I follow my drawings and everything bolts together the way I intended. Of course, now there will be no rest for me until I get a bushing and shaft made up so I can see how those bevel gears mesh.


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## Brian Rupnow

I have made a somewhat arbitrary decision to make the governor stempost in two pieces. For any of you guys who have larger machines, the drawing posted is fine. For people with small machines like mine, that's just too much steel to be cutting in the scalloped areas. I am going to make the large diameter part with all the fancy work from aluminum, and the actual center that the gear fits on from cold rolled steel, then Loctite them together. I will put up new drawings of the two-piece stempost tomorrow.


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## Brian Rupnow

Check this out!!! This is so neat----


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## Brian Rupnow

As promised yesterday, here is the governor stempost designed as a two part assembly for those of us with snaller machines. When assembled, dimensionally it is identical to the one piece stempost drawing which is already posted.








 

View attachment ASSEMBLY OF 2 PIECE GOVERNOR STEMPOST.PDF


View attachment GOVERNOR STEMPOST-TOP SECTION.PDF


View attachment GOVERNOR STEMPOST--TWO PIECE--STEEL PART.PDF


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian,   man your flying at it good work
            can you supply info were to get the gears from


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## Brian Rupnow

And now we get to the two parts that most often confuse and confound the builders of small i.c. engines--the timing gears!!!





 

View attachment CRANKSHAFT TIMING GEAR-RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment CAMSHAFT GEAR WITH CAM-RUPNOW ENGINE.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

canadianhorsepower said:


> Brian,   man your flying at it good work
> can you supply info were to get the gears from


 
See post #15 for part number. The gears were purchased from McMaster Carr.


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## Brian Rupnow

This is my first step in cutting the steel 15 tooth cam gear. The piece of cold rolled steel is .875" o.d. which fortunately will fit into the body of the chuck which is attached to my rotary table. The end is machined down to .708" diameter which is the finished outer diameter of the gear, x 1/4" wide which is the finished thickness of the gear. The next turn down is to slightly less than 0.521" diameter which is the root diameter of the finished gear. The 1/2" or so of reduced diameter is to allow for "run out" of the gear cutter when I cut each gear tooth. I have drilled and reamed the finish bore of 3/8" to approximately 3/8" depth. The next step is to set it up in the rotary table and start cutting teeth.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

The gears I am going to make are the same as the gears used on the Philip Duclos Odds and Ends engine. I went back in time (Neat how I have my own personal time machine) and copied the sheet of instructions out of my "gear book" for cutting the gears. This is a picture of the calculations I made to set up my mill and rotary table, and to turn the blanks in preperation for cutting the gears. The bits of brass are irrelevant as they are for a different engine.  If anyone has questions, go ahead and ask.


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## starnovice

Brian,
In the plans for the cylinder head in msg 13, you refer to a 1.25 counter bore in the notes for the slot and the valve holes.  I assume this is the counter bore for the cyl but the plans show that as 1.125 +/- .001.  Am I miss reading your plans?

Pat W


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## starnovice

Brian Rupnow said:


> Brian,
> I am looking at making the complete base assembly one Al casting.  The two concerns I have are if I will be able to machine the cyl counterbore and the bores for the crank bearings.  Doing the cyl counter bore will just depend on whether I can fit the casting under the mill spindle, I can figure that out.
> 
> My question is, you left a lip on the outside of the bearings bore, could this be put on the inside so I can bore the casting from the outside?


----------



## Brian Rupnow

starnovice said:


> Brian,
> In the plans for the cylinder head in msg 13, you refer to a 1.25 counter bore in the notes for the slot and the valve holes.  I assume this is the counter bore for the cyl but the plans show that as 1.125 +/- .001.  Am I miss reading your plans?
> 
> Pat W


My mistake Pat---And the first one brought to my attention so far. The bore is 1.125". The note was wrong. I will go back and repost the drawing with that note corrected.


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## Brian Rupnow

Starnovice--The lip at the bearing counterbore could be put on the opposite side to what I have shown without effecting anything. You MIGHT get into an interference issue with the hub of the bevel gear, but then again, you might not. My solid model shows the back side of the bevel gear hub being perfectly in line with the outside of the sideplate.--Of course, you could always shave .010" off the back side of the bevel gear hub if you had to.---Brian


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## starnovice

Thanks Brian, I will draw it up in SW and let you know how it comes out.

Pat W


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## Brian Rupnow

I am reposting this drawing, as the notes which refers to a 1.25" counterbore were incorrect. The counterbore is, in fact, 1.125" as dimensioned. I have deleted the earlier post. The attached .jpg shows only the first sheet. The link to the pdf file will bring up both sheets, although only the notes were changed on the first sheet, nothing else.---Brian 

View attachment CYLINDER HEAD-RUPNOW.PDF


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## starnovice

Brian,
Before pointing out a mistake I meant to first thank you for another great design and build.  It is also very kind of you to try to include other people into your build process.  Thank you very much for all of the hard work.

Pat W


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## canadianhorsepower

starnovice said:


> Brian,
> Before pointing out a mistake I meant to first thank you for another great design and build.  It is also very kind of you to try to include other people into your build process.  Thank you very much for all of the hard work.
> 
> Pat W


 
different person different point of view.:hDe:

I notice that also, but it did look as a counter sunk of .125 in a 1.125 diameter:fan:
those numbers sometime


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## Brian Rupnow

The cam gear---Ah, yes. That could end up being a pig of a different color!! I have all these scraps of 1/4" brass plate laying around, and I try and utilize them whenever/however I can. Now you didn't hear it from me, but---the overall cam profile on these small single cylinder engines is not nearly as critical as some people would have you believe. Oh yes, it has to have the correct general profile, and the sides must be smooth and cut at 90 degrees to the face. You can spend a lot of time with fancy set-ups in rotary tables and on your lathe machining the profiles. --And that's not wrong.--However----There is ANOTHER way. If this starts to sound like blasphemy, cover your ears---You can lay the profile out with your old drafting compass and a steel scale, scribe out the tangent lines, and cut it out with a bandsaw, then file and beltsand "to the line".  Does it work?--Darn right it does. I have used that method on my last two engines, and they run fine. Now the gear itself is a different story. It has to be "dead nuts" as per the gear tables. The hardest part of what I am about to do is to get the reamed hole thru the 1/4" plate which will become a 1/4" wide gear and not have any run-out. If you get it all machined and then find that you have any "run-out" (axis of hole not perfectly square to face of plate in two 90 degree planes)--Then you either have to A--Live with a wobbly gear, or B--Machine both sides until the gear no longer appears to wobble---But then it is less than 1/4" thick. In situations like this, I don't really trust the vice. I clamp the pieces of plate to my mill table with a sacrificial plate underneath it and then drill and ream the center hole. With two 1/4" plates soldered together, the problem only gets worse. However, I've just spent enough time explaining what I am going to do to have actually done the job!!! Onward and upward-----


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## Brian Rupnow

I've been thinkin', Lincoln---Sooner or later I'm going to have to hold that cam gear on a stub arbor to cut the teeth. I have lots of cold rolled "shorts" in my shop. If I drilled and tapped the end of a chunk of 1" cold rolled and "faced" the end of it---Then I could solder the profiled cam to the gear plate, bolt the gear plate to the end of the stub arbor, hold the stub arbor in my lathe to drill and ream the center hole and turn the o.d. of the gear plate to what it should be, then hold the stub arbor in my rotary table chuck to cut the gear teeth. Probably drill and ream undersized holes in both pieces of brass first for an alignment dowel to line the cam up concentric with what will become the center of the gear plate before soldering them together----


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## Brian Rupnow

Don't follow me---I'm lost!! Well, not really. Everything is working out as planned----so far. I'm almost ready to cut the gear, but first I have to determine how to solder that cam to the side of the gear without soldering the 3/16" guide shaft into place. I may just solder the guide in place then cut it off, put the stub arbor back in the lathe and drill it out, then drill and ream to 1/4" finished size. I'm making it up as I go along---


----------



## ozzie46

Brian, use a 3/16th piece of aluminum for the stub arbor. Solder won't stick to it.

  By the way great job as always.


  Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I put flux in the appropriate areas, cut 4 very small pieces of silver solder to set underneath the cam, and removed the socket head capscrews so as not to solder them in place. I cut the 3/16" central locating shaft of flush with the outside of the cam. There is a drilled and reamed 3/16" hole in the center of my stub arbor, and that bit of 3/16" shaft passes thru the cam, the gear blank, and into the hole in the stub arbor to keep everything concentric. I heated the gear blank and the cam with my oxy acetylene torch until I seen liquid solder begin to run out around the edges of the cam. I used a big old screwdriver in my other hand to put some "down force" on the cam to make certain it seated against the face of the gear blank. Its setting out in the garage now cooling off.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

ozzie46 said:


> Brian, use a 3/16th piece of aluminum for the stub arbor. Solder won't stick to it.
> 
> By the way great job as always.
> 
> 
> Ron


Too late Ozzie--and I have tried that, and solder DID stick to it.--Not a good bond, but enough to screw up what I was doing.


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## jwcnc1911

Brian Rupnow said:


> Too late Ozzie--and I have tried that, and solder DID stick to it.--Not a good bond, but enough to screw up what I was doing.



Brian, I've heard that for years... and had the same results as well.


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## ozzie46

I must have had a brain freeze or something.:wall::wall: I was thinking soft solder not silver solder.  

 I thought aluminum melted before silver solder did. Oh well live and learn.

  Ron


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## Brian Rupnow

So there we have it---Two infant gears--They haven't got their teeth yet!!! And honest--I didn't know that piece of crud was stuck in the bore of the cam until after I had taken the picture!!! I didn't get a real warm fuzzy feeling about that silver solder job holding the cam to the face of the gear, so I added some insurance.--A #4-40 shcs tapped into the gear and counterbored in the cam. I had a call from a customer needing a quick and nasty sales drawing sometime tomorrow, so I will do that in the morning, and then hopefully add some teeth to these rascals.


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## Brian Rupnow

YEAHHHHHH  We got gears!!!---


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## starnovice

Darn, you work fast!  Your shop must be well organized, at least for you.  Nice gears.

Pat W


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## Brian Rupnow

Starnovice. My shop is only seven foot square. It has to be well organized!! Its in a corner of my design office. The gears looked good, didn't they!!! Sadly, Ivan Laws I'm not. The gears meshed perfectly for half a revolution of he brass cam gear. The other half had a terrible bind in it. Somehow, in spite of the care I took, some eccentricity crept into that gear---the pitch circle was not concentric with the 1/4" hole in the center. After a host of wild a##ed ideas, I decided the only fix was to put my gear cutting set up back up on the mill table, and starting on the deepest cut space between the gear teeth, work my way all the way round again. That's 90 turns of the crank---3 between each cut. However, that seems to have corrected the problem, and I didn't have to remake the gear, so I guess "All's well that ends well."


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## starnovice

seven foot square -- that makes a real high productivity/sq ft  ratio


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## Brian Rupnow

I have edited this drawing by removing the large radius from the 4 corners of the rod, on 12-july-2013. I have deleted the previous drawing that was posted much earlier in the build. When I assembled my engine it became apparent that the large radius was not needed.


 

View attachment CON-ROD RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hey Brian, 
             is there any way you go on holiday for a week or so, or slow down on your build.:hDe:

I got into this project cause you said one part a week or so. I'm doing an excellent job with your build but DAMM your going so fast at it that all the guys that agreed to follow your build are simply not following.

if the goal was to build a "race build" I would have like to know about it
I would have walk away..............maybe I should, take all the build parts
and re-cycle them. and do something else

please think about it


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--no "race build" was intended. I feel a great responsibility when I ask 10 people to build a new, untried engine with me. I would feel terribly bad if I was the cause of 10 people around the world having to change, modify, or redo parts that I might have made a mistake on when designing them. I want their build experience to be as pain free as possible. That is why I am rushing ahead and building parts to the drawings I have posted, so that if any errors show up I can warn people and make appropriate changes to the drawings before they get started on them. I don't expect people to approach this build with the same speed as I am doing. It is not a competition, and I am not trying to make anyone look bad. I am semi retired, and don't have the obligation of going off to work somewhere each day. This allows me to move foreword at a great pace. I can see that everybody involved with this project is moving foreword at their own speed. This is intended to be a FUN build Luc. It also puts me in a position that if people ask questions about the build, I can give them intelligent answerers based on what I have done---Not guesses. Please stay with the project. You have made a great start, and people are watching your progress.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

This mornings early offering is a push rod guide. Its neither large nor impressive, but it is one more piece. The 3/16" square bar is just stuck in there to see if it would fit okay!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I haven't published anything about the bearing /cam follower on the end of the exhaust valve push-rod before now, because I haven't had a chance to get over to the far end of town where BusyBee Tools are located. I finally got over there this morning, and as I thought, they have router guide bearings that are 1/8" i.d. x 1/4" o.d. x 7/64" thick, 5 to a pack for $10. That's good, considering that I paid $16 for one of similar size three years ago from Canadian bearings.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well there!! That's better.--I was getting sick of looking at that gaping hole in the top of the water reservoir.  Now its time to cut the grass and wash the hotrod to get ready for cruise night.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I am rapidly running out of fun, easy, no-brainer stuff to build. Although the hokey crankshaft seems a bit weird at first, it seems to be easy to make and doesn't appear to have any more run out than the "normal" crankshafts I have built on all my other engines. I really don't want to invest a lot more time in the governor until I convince myself that the engine runs okay in "normal 4 cycle engine" mode. I am going to use the same carb setup that I used on my last hit and miss engine. I guess I will start tomorrow on the rocker arm and the rather strange shaped piece that supports it. Monday I will go buy a set of points and build the support block for them and make an ignition cam. Nobody has asked me yet, but the small gear is not held to the crankshaft by magic---Its cross drilled and anchored with a 1/16" split pin thru it and the crankshaft. Looking at it in hindsight, I had lots of room on either side of the small gear for a hub and setscrews, but even I get locked into paradigms.--That gear worked just fine on the last hit and miss engine I built, which also had a 3/8" crankshaft, so I'll use the same again.--Yeah, right!!! The only problem with a gear this size is that the root diameter of the gear doesn't really leave enough meat for a proper hub and keyway or set screws, and if I increase the size of this gear, then I have to increase the size of the cam gear, and yada yada yada!!! It'll be fine!! Notice how I am skirting around the issue of valve cages and valves.---Its like having a tooth extracted---You put it off for as long as you can---


----------



## aarggh

I'm really enjoying watching this thread Brian, that engines coming along fantastic mate! Very impressive.

cheers, Ian


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## Brian Rupnow

We may not be at 100% detailed yet, but we must be getting close. I think the carb is all that's left to do.





 

View attachment EXHAUST PUSH ROD SUB ASSEMBLY-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

We need a carb to make this thing run---














 

View attachment SUB ASSY-CARBURETOR-RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment SUB ASSY NEEDLE TOP AND NEEDLE.PDF


View attachment CARBURETOR JET--RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment CHECK VALVE FOR CARB-RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment CARBURETOR BODY--RUPNOW.PDF


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## jwcnc1911

Nice Brian!  I bet this carb ends up on other things too.


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## Brian Rupnow

And the only machining that's going to happen here today, is the "Rocker Arm Mount". I don't think "Tricky Bugga" would be an overstatement!!! I did have a last minute change of heart and made the pivot hole .093" diameter instead of the .125 the drawing originally called for. I will fix up the drawings later today or tomorrow.


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## Brian Rupnow

This drawing revised 14-july-2013--Pivot hole diameter was previously .125", HAS CHANGED TO .093".


 

View attachment ROCKER ARM MOUNT-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This drawing revised 14-july 2013--pivot hole diameter was previously .125---has now changed to .093"


 

View attachment ROCKER ARM-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

_NOT GOING TO MACHINE ANYMORE TODAY_--Yeah, I know, Liar Liar Pants on fire!!! Once I got the rocker arm mount machined, I just couldn't help myself. I had to make the rocker arm. And once it was done, how could I live without machining a pushrod. I'm going out on the back deck and drink beer now---


----------



## jwcnc1911

I really like how this looking.  I want to see it with the huge governor on it!

Luc, leave him alone!  I want to see it run!


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## Brian Rupnow

Somehow I think I missed posting this one.


 

View attachment CARB NEEDLE TOP-RUPNOW.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Something I noticed during assembly of the pushrod this afternoon---I was quite emphatic about the overall width of the pushrod with the bearing installed not exceed .244".-I put a big note to that effect on the drawing. My reasoning was that since the cam is only .250" thick, I needed clearance between the face of the bearing and the inner face of the gear. BIG HEADSLAP FOR ME--- If I'm a bit crowded for room, I can always put a .020" or .030" spacer between the cam and the sideframe. This would require a slight counterbore in the outward face of the gear if using a 1/2" shoulderbolt to hold the cam gear in place, but there is lots of room. See, its the finished position of the cam gear that determined where the crankshaft gear gets placed.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

If we plan on making any sparks, we're going to need one of these to go with our Chrysler ignition points.


 

View attachment IGNITION CAM-RUPNOW ENGINE.PDF


----------



## Smithers

Well Brian, I've been lurking around for the last few years watching you and others create superb models, about time I started as well, got room for another aussie for the i.c build? Andrew


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Andrew, I would certainly welcome you to the build. This has proven to be a most interesting engine, and I am closing in on the home stretch of mine. I supposedly have 5 other people around the world who are building this engine with me, but I'm not seeing too many posts from them. Have you built an i.c. engine before?---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This morning I went and bought the ignition points and made the ignition cam and the bracket to install them on the engine . Its very "busy" in that area, but everything does fit. It looks like perhaps the carburetor is up next---


----------



## Brian Rupnow




----------



## Brian Rupnow

Someone emailed me and asked why I didn't show more "set-up" shots rather than just finished parts. When I first started posting 5 years ago, I used to show a lot of "set-up" shots, because everything was new to me and a proper set up was pretty exciting stuff. Now after 5 years of engine building, the set-ups have became such a normal part of the entire machining process that I don't generally do "set-up" shots anymore. At any rate---Here is a set up shot, showing the carb body in the 4 jaw on my lathe. I actually machined the 5/16" diameter using the cut off tool so I would have a good square shoulder where the round transitions into the square section. I have threaded the round part 5/16"-24 and just drilled a .210" hole full length of the part. I will finish it up tomorrow.


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## GKNIPP

Brian, would you please be so kind as to post a PDF of the points cam.  Thank you;

Greg


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## Brian Rupnow

GKNIPP said:


> Brian, would you please be so kind as to post a PDF of the points cam.  Thank you;
> 
> Greg


 
Its up there now Greg. Sorry--I missed it.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I spent the morning making carburetor bits, then drove about 50 miles north of Barrie to Gravenhurst, Ontario for a swim with my granddaughters. It seems insane to drive 50 miles to go for a swim when I live almost within walking distance of Lake Simcoe, but Lake Simcoe is such a cold lake that my arthritis just about kills me for 3 days after I swim in it!!


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## Brian Rupnow

This is the carburetor fully assembled, with the anti-flow back valve in place. Yikes!! I don't think there is anything left to do but valves. That gooberish looking stuff around the hex nut is a little "seal all" that gets applied to either side of the carb body before the jet is tightened into place.


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> This is the carburetor fully assembled, with the anti-flow back valve in place. Yikes!! I don't think there is anything left to do but valves. That gooberish looking stuff around the hex nut is a little "seal all" that gets applied to either side of the carb body before the jet is tightened into place.


 Why not a tiny oring
BTW what did it cost you for the cast for the cylinder??


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## Brian Rupnow

I find that O-rings have a tendency to "squeeze out" when the hex nut is tightened. Remember, there is always a lot of twisting back and forth on that knurled piece at the top that has the needle soldered into it before the engine finally settles in at a "sweet spot" where it no longer needs to be adjusted. The hex nut has to be tight enough to keep the body of the jet from rotating. If it rotates, then the spray hole that faces towards the engine gets turned, and causes problems. I think I paid $5 or $10 for the piece of cast to make the cylinder.--Certainly not more than that.


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## canadianhorsepower

. I think I paid $5 or $10 for the piece of cast to make the cylinder.--Certainly not more than that.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> I was quoted 68.00 this morning, and sure enough the bearing were
> not stock at Busy Bee:fan:


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--Send me a private message with your address and I will mail you a bearing. I have 4 left over. $68 for the cast is absolutely out to lunch!! Grey cast iron is much cheaper than that. Try calling "Speedy Metals" or "Metal Supermarket". I'm not 100% sure, but I think it may also known as "Durabar". Perhaps someone else can jump in and clarify that. The full name of what I buy is "Grey pearlitic cast iron", but none of the guys at the machine shop where  buy it knew about the "pearlitic". They just said "This is the stuff automotive rebuild shops make cylinder liners out of."


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## Brian Rupnow

The next thing to build is the valves and cages, however there is one extremely important step that I must perform before that. Remember all of those undersized dowel holes that were drilled in many of the plates, but not in the mating surface that bolted up to it. Now is the time. Right now, with everything seemingly in perfect alignment, and the engine turning over freely, and all the fasteners tightened down. I will use those undersize holes as "guide holes" and drill and ream thru them for 1/8" dowels that go into both plates. Why???---Because without the dowels, I might never get this engine back into such perfect alignment again. I have built other engines to this stage, and then disassembled them without doweling them first. There is enough "tolerance/clearance" on all of the bolt holes that the engine becomes a total pig when reassembled, with binds popping up in places that ran perfectly free before the engine was taken apart.---Brian


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## jwcnc1911

Brian Rupnow said:


> The next thing to build is the valves and cages, however there is one extremely important step that I must perform before that. Remember all of those undersized dowel holes that were drilled in many of the plates, but not in the mating surface that bolted up to it. Now is the time. Right now, with everything seemingly in perfect alignment, and the engine turning over freely, and all the fasteners tightened down. I will use those undersize holes as "guide holes" and drill and ream thru them for 1/8" dowels that go into both plates. Why???---Because without the dowels, I might never get this engine back into such perfect alignment again. I have built other engines to this stage, and then disassembled them without doweling them first. There is enough "tolerance/clearance" on all of the bolt holes that the engine becomes a total pig when reassembled, with binds popping up in places that ran perfectly free before the engine was taken apart.---Brian




That sounds like wisdom that only real life experience brings!   I've had that issue with hydraulic clamping fixtures and other related things... You never forget those hard learned lessons!  I haven't thought about that in my limited engine making but I'll certainly store that useful tidbit as I have learned this lesson elsewhere!


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## Smithers

Hi Brian, are you using solid dowels or the split "spring" type dowels

Andrew


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## Brian Rupnow

I will probably just use sawn pieces of 1/8" cold rolled steel.


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian,
           I was abble to get some bearing this morning metric 
3x8x4 mm
the plate for the governor are you going to CNC them


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--I don't have any CNC equipment. All my machinery is manual. Heck, I don't even have DRO's on them.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

This is another "in process" shot. I have just finished putting in all of the dowel holes. A word of WARNING!!!  The dowels which go in from the bottom of the baseplate can all be pushed in flush with the bottom of the baseplate. (I drilled and reamed the holes a total of 1" deep for 1" long dowels.) HOWEVER--The dowels that go thru the sideplates into the cylinder head must be left at least 3/16" longer than the hole depth. Why??--Because if you push them in flush, you will never be able to get them out again and you will be unable to remove the cylinder head. If this was a full size industrial machine, the dowels would be larger and have an internal thread so that a dowel puller could be used to remove them. At this scale, however, the dowels are too small in diameter for a threaded puller hole, so they must have enough material setting "proud" of the outer plate to be gripped with a pair of pliers and removed.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

The valve cages are completed and installed, although I haven't drilled the ports in the cylinder head yet that break through into the sides of the valve cages. I stepped out into the back yard to take this picture, and going from my air conditioned shop to 95 degrees F outside immediately made my camera fog up. I will build the valves and drill the ports tomorrow.


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## Brian Rupnow

I just realized I hadn't put up a drawing of the exhaust pipe!!


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## Brian Rupnow

Nothing much left but them nasty old valves. This is where Brian generally falls on his butt!!! I will attempt to start and run the engine without the governor.--That's assuming I can convince the little engine Gods to give me compression tomorrow. I put the Viton ring on the piston today and slid the piston into the cylinder---All kinds of compression on ring alone.


----------



## Smithers

Good luck Brain, hope it's all good

Andrew


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## Lawijt

Almost ready for brooom brooom brooom. Looks great.


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## Brian Rupnow

Both valves are finished now, except for trimming to length and putting an 0.040 cross hole through the ends for a retaining pin. I use 3/8" cold rolled steel, and turn the valve stem down to 0.127" diameter for about the first 5/16", then I record my crossfeed dial setting and turn down another 5/16". I keep doing this until the full length of the stem portion is turned. Turning it in this manner prevents all the deflection you would normally get if you turned down the entire length in successive passes. I set my crossfeed over to the desired angle, and make many small passes at the abrupt shoulder of the turndown until the actual valve "face" is fully formed at the angle I have dialed in. I then use 200 grit emery cloth to bring the stem down to the final .125" size. I have the lathe turning at about 1000 rpm when I do this. This is a very tricky business, because there is no way to measure how much you are taking off with the emery paper, and you DO NOT WANT an undersize valve stem. I generally hold a fold of the paper between my thumb and finger with the "stem" gripped between two abrasive sides and with the lathe turning at 1000 rpm and slide the emery paper back and forth on the stem for a slow count to 20, then shut off the lathe and try the stem for fit into the valve cage hole. I might end up shutting the lathe off and turning it back on a dozen times until the fit is "perfect". I like to leave a three inch (approximate) "handle" on the valve, as seen in the picture, because it gives me something to hold onto when lapping the valve into the seat in the valve cage. I first use some 350 grit oil based lapping compound on the face of the valve and while pressing the valve face against the "seat" I twirl it back and forth with my fingers, about 100 times. Not full rotations, just back and forth, and every 25 "twirls" I move the cylinder head around about 90 degrees with the other hand which is holding it. DO NOT get lapping compound on the valve stem!!! I then repeat the preceding with 400 grit, then one last time with 600 grit. When I am finished and all of the lapping compound is cleaned away with varsol, I hold the valve closed and try to blow through the exhaust pipe or the carb air intake. If you can blow any air at all, then its not lapped properly and the lapping procedure must be repeated. Now I will cut the "handles" off of the valves and drill the cross holes for the retainers.  And Oh Yeah---one last thing. Once the valves are lapped, don't mix them up!! the lapped face is an exact match ONLY to the seat it was lapped in!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Choosing valve springs for these small engines is always kind of a crap shoot. I generally try and get a spring closest in size to whatever I used on the last engine I built. In this instance, the intake valve spring I chose is made from 0.012" diameter wire, has approximately 13 coils per inch when spring is "relaxed" and will just fit over a 3/16" drill. Since there is no cam to operate the intake valve, the spring must be very light to let atmospheric pressure open the valve when required, yet strong enough to close the valve against any friction in the valve guide/cage. Consequently, the valve must move very freely in its guide.  Once the valve is closed and the piston starts to come up on compression stroke, the internal pressure will seat the valve even tighter if everything is working properly. The exhaust valve spring is 0.024" wire diameter with 10 coils per inch when the spring is "relaxed" and it too will just fit over a 3/16" drill. The exhaust valve has a mechanical cam to open it, so the spring can be stronger. In fact, it has to be stronger, because not only does it have to close the valve, but indirectly it also moves the rocker arm and the lifter mechanism, and holds the bearing on the end of the lifter mechanism firmly in contact with the cam. The exhaust valve spring as purchased is 2" long. I will probably cut it in half and start out with a spring 1" long, but that may change depending on the operation of the engine. The intake spring is 1 1/2" long, and I will probably cut it in half as well. I purchased my springs at Brafasco in Barrie. Fastenal is another fastener company that has a selection of springs.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

So that's it for the valves and springs. A good sign is that with the pressure of the springs alone holding the valves in their "seated" position, I am unable to blow any air (lung pressure only) through the exhaust pipe or the carb air inlet. The exhaust valves don't generally give too much trouble, because the stronger spring ensures a pretty good seal. The intake valves though, can be a real bear, trying to find a happy balance between a strong enough spring to seat the valve, but yet weak enough to open under atmospheric pressure.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well, its all back together. No disasters, no surprises. (Well, I was a bit surprised at that blob of green Loctite on the exhaust pipe.--I didn't see that before I took the picture). I have compression. Question is, do I have enough? I haven't timed the valve train nor the ignition yet, but I'm tired. I will save that for tomorrow. The last time I built an engine, a far more experienced fellow than I am said to not worry so much about compression on a new engine. He said to hook up the gas line, hook up the coil, make sure everything is timed properly, and then drive it with an electric motor until it "catches" and begins to fire and run on its own. Once the engine has fired 10 or 20 times, the force of the pressure created by ignition will cause the valves to seat completely. I may try that approach tomorrow.


----------



## Path

th_wav

Pat H.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

NOW---Is the time for everyone who was concerned about me "building too fast" to catch up to me. Everything is built as per the posted drawings. This next stage is the truly dreadful, frustrating part of small engines.---Getting to "First Fire". Once you can get these things to fire, they will invariably run. This is my fifth i.c. engine. I started with a Webster 5 years ago.---Biggest thrill of my life when that thing fired up and ran on its own. Then, emboldened by my success, I built the Kerzel hit and miss engine. I had always heard of "Hit and miss" engines, but until I built the Kerzel, and did a ton of reading, I never really understood what the term implied.  I have posted all of the builds of these engines here on HMEM, and anyone who takes the time to hunt them up and read thru all of the pages can feel the frustration I met getting those engines to run. I built the Atkinson engine just because its such a weird engine, and I wanted to see if I could build one and run it successfully. It does run, but its such an unbalanced temperamental tool of an engine that now I wish I hadn't wasted my time with it. The Odds and Ends hit and miss engine was built with one thought in mind. I wanted an engine of sufficient displacement to run the sawmill I had designed and built. So---All of you brave souls who thought it might be fun to build my latest engine---now you can catch me. I will be out in the main garage pulling out my remaining hair trying to get this engine started.----Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

So far, nothing has been said about setting up the engine to run. I have just went through it all, and while it is still fresh in my mind I will cover it off. First, lets start with the exhaust valve adjustment.  You will see that the push rod mechanism is made in two pieces, with the 1/8" threaded round section  screwed into the end of the 3/16" square section, and locked in place with a jamb nut. After everything is assembled, turn the engine over until the cam follower bearing is on the side of the cam opposite to the high "lobe" end. Adjust the length of the pushrod so that there is about 0.010 of "freeplay" between the end of the pushrod and the recess in the rocker arm, then lock up the jamb nut. This "freeplay" ensures that the valve will not be held open with a consequent loss of compression during the compression cycle of the engine.


----------



## Smithers

Nice work Brian.....can't wait for the video of it running.

Andrew


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Wild and crazy day here yesterday!! Black sky, torrential rain, tornado warnings on all the radio stations with a couple of " Take Cover Immediately---This is Not a Drill" broadcasts. Momma had the grand daughters down in the basement a couple of times when the house started to shake. I kept working in the big garage with the door open---Thought maybe I'd get to visit with Dorothy in Oz!!! Nothing tragic happened. Lost electricity a couple of times, lost internet for most of the day, had a few rotten branches come down on the yard. Have a lot of news to post about the Rupnow Engine today, now that power and internet is restored. Sun is shining, humidity is broken, Granddaughters have fled home to their mom and dad. More posts with pictures, videos, and "how to" articles to follow.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay--First a few still shots and explanations. The first picture is a "good news" shot---The water Reservoir.-I filled it with water before I went to bed---This morning it is still full to the top. This seems to prove that my o-ring seals on the water jacket work fine. Also in this first pic you will see where I chose to mount the condenser. This was a last minute decision, as I hadn't made provision for it on the 3D model. I drilled and tapped the sideplate for one #5-40 unc capscrew. It will not interfere with the "latch" mechanism from the governor. In the second picture you can also see the brass bushings I made and installed in the holes which I put in the wrong place for the governor cross shaft--I drilled them out oversize and Loctited the bushings in place. The hole in those bushings is undersized, and they will be reamed "in situ" when I get to that part of the build. Rather than spend a week disassembling and reassembling the cylinder head to get a "perfect" airtight seal on the valves, I took advice from I believe it was Jim Dunmyer but I could be mistaken and hooked up the engine to an electic motor with a v-belt, wired up the ignition and plumbed the gas tank, and let it run. At first the compression was rather anemic, because even though the valves sealed perfectly with "lung pressure" as covered in previous posts, they leak a bit when subjected to full engine compression. I fiddled with the carb jet until the engine began to fire consistently, and let it run that way for an hour. (I kept squirting #30 oil into the back end of the cylinder occasionally to lubricate the piston and ring, as I haven't yet installed the oil cup for the cylinder.) After an hour of running, the compression during combustion in the cylinder had seated the valves to the point where the compression had improved dramatically. I shut the electric motor off a couple of times, but the mechanical disadvantage was too great. The engine wanted to keep on running, but didn't have enough "oomph" to turn the armature in that old 1/2 HP bale elevator motor.


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## Brian Rupnow

Video of engine firing


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## Canman

That looks and sounds awesome Brian you've done a fantastic job of the engine.

James.


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## canadianhorsepower

Verry nice work Brian anxious of getting mine running
Ill be posting many pics of finish stuff this week end.

While I was watching your video I notice that the spark in your point
is pretty erratic, maybe you should have a look

cheers


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## Brian Rupnow

Here is a set-up shot for Path. In this shot the engine is setting on 123 blocks with the end of the crankshaft held in the vice. It has just been drilled for a 1/8" cross hole to accept a 1/8" diameter x 3/4" long roll pin which my "starter" engages.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

First run of engine---


----------



## Path

Brian Rupnow said:


> Here is a set-up shot for Path. In this shot the engine is setting on 123 blocks with the end of the crankshaft held in the vice. It has just been drilled for a 1/8" cross hole to accept a 1/8" diameter x 3/4" long roll pin which my "starter" engages.



Thanks Brian ... 

Pat H.


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## Smithers

Magnificent Brian, a real credit to you, sounds so sweet.

Andrew


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## Brian Rupnow

Smithers said:


> Magnificent Brian, a real credit to you, sounds so sweet.
> 
> Andrew


I've got a ways to go yet. It has to run pretty well perfect as a normal 4 cycle engine before I can go to the hit and miss version. I am amazed at how much compression it has. Right now its doing something funny that I have to chase down. It starts perfect, runs for about a minute, then staggers and quits. I don't know if its running out of fuel, or getting too much fuel. I am thinking it is carburetor, not spark. Tomorrow morning I will put my store bought Traxxas carburetor on it and if that cures the problem, I'll know there is a problem with the carburetor I designed and built. If that doesn't cure the problem, then I will look at ignition issues. This is always the time consuming part of these small engines.--Getting them to run flawlessly after they are all assembled.


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## Smithers

At least all the hard work is done, time now to pull your hair out fine tuning!

Couple of questions, what type of spark plug are you using and what fuel mix?

Andrew


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## Brian Rupnow

Sparkplug is an NGK CM6---It has M10 x 1 metric thread. I burn Coleman fuel (Naptha gas) with just a dash of 2 stroke oil to keep the piston lubricated.


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## Brian Rupnow

Carburation, ignition, or something else. Yep, that pretty well covers it. I haven't posted the valve timing sequence yet, but I will. My first attempts at starting the engine were semi-successful, but I couldn't get a run of more than 10 seconds duration. I thought "I bet I'm out one gear tooth on the valve timing', so I undone the crank bearing bolts enough to move the gear train one tooth from where it was. That immediately yielded the run you see in the video.


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## Cogsy

Congrats on getting it to run Brian - I never had any doubt that it'd start up nice and easy for you.


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## jwcnc1911

Very nice Brian!  Thanks for taking us along for the ride and further thanks for sharing the design!


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## Brian Rupnow

This morning I am going to cover how to do the valve timing on this engine. We are going to be looking at the non-governor side of this engine, with the flywheels on the right and the cylinder sticking out towards the left. This engine is going to rotate clockwise when viewed like this, and I will tell you why later. Remove the 4 bolts which hold the crankshaft bearing caps on, but do not yet remove the bearing caps themselves.    Rotate the flywheels clockwise until the piston is travelling from top dead center towards bottom dead center. Stop when the piston skirt (which you can easily see) is about 1/8" from its end of outward travel. Using a screwdriver under each flywheel, lift the crankshaft and bearing caps straight up until the gear on the crankshaft clears the gear on the camshaft. Rotate the camshaft gear counter-clockwise by hand until the cam just begins to lift the exhaust valve. You will feel it when the cam actuated pushrod begins to meet the resistance of the spring which holds the exhaust valve closed.) At this point, lower the crankshaft back into place carefully. Make sure that the piston is still about 1/8" from bottom dead center on the downstroke. Rebolt the bearing caps and rotate the crankshaft slowly clockwise. This is a four cycle engine, so the valve will lift only on every second revolution of the crankshaft. As the piston approaches bdc, it will get about 1/8" from the end of travel, and at that time the cam will begin to open the exhaust valve. The piston travels past bdc and begins its exhaust stroke towards tdc, and the valve should fully open and then close just before the exhaust stroke (travelling towards TDC) ends. The piston travels past top dead center and begins what would be the intake stroke. It travels from top dead center to bottom dead center on the intake stroke, with the exhaust valve remaining closed. Then it travels from bottom dead center to top dead center on the compression stroke with the exhaust valve still closed. At top dead center a spark occurs igniting the fuel mixture, and the piston travels towards bottom dead center on the power stroke. Just before it reaches the bottom of its power stroke the exhaust valve begins to open again for the exhaust stroke. Then the sequence repeats itself.--Why do we want it to rotate in this direction---Because unless you have a model aeroplane starter gun, or can always start your engine by hand, you will be using your electric drill as a "starter".--If you rotate things in the opposite direction, the chuck on the drill tends to loosen itself off and your "starter bit" will come loose in the drill chuck!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

To set the ignition timing, rotate the flywheels clockwise (again looking at the engine from the "non-governor side) until the piston is at top dead center. It doesn't matter if its on the exhaust stroke or on the compression stroke. Loosen off the set screw in the ignition cam, and rotate it clockwise until the ignition points just begin to open--(again, you will feel the resistance when the cam contacts the rubbing block on the ignition points.). Lock down the set screw. Now we will get a spark every time the piston is at top dead center. If the piston is on the compression stroke, the spark will ignite the fuel and the engine will fire. If the piston is on the exhaust stroke, the ignition will fire then too, but since there is no fuel to ignite on that stroke, the spark won't effect anything.


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## Brian Rupnow

Assuming that you valves are seating properly, and your piston ring is installed and working, when the piston moves from top dead center to bottom dead center during the intake stroke, a considerable amount of vacuum should be created in the cylinder. This is when your "atmospheric intake valve" is supposed to open. As stated before, this is an extremely "dicey" adjustment. The spring has to be strong enough to close the valve, but light enough to be operated by "vacuum". Now some engine builders will tell you that this judgement call can be made while the engine is being turned over by hand. My experience has been that you can turn the engine over till the cows come home, and never see the damned valve move!! That's part of the reason I like to drive the engine with an electric motor. Make your "best guess" for valve spring length, hook up the electric motor, and let things roll. If you see the valve dancing up and down, you're golden. If the valve doesn't appear to move, remove the valve, cut one coil from the valve spring and reinstall. WARNING--WARNING--Make sure your piston is at top dead center while doing this, or there is a good possibility you will chase the valve out of sight and it will fall into the cylinder, requiring you to disassemble the whole engine to get the valve back.---Don't ask me how I know!!! After removal of one coil, try the electric motor again. Keep on removing one coil at a time until you see that valve start to dance as the motor turns the engine over at a good clip, say about 300 to 400 RPM. Don't expect to see MUCH movement--the valve may only open 1/16" or less, but it does have to open. On the current engine I am building I had to remove either 3 or 4 coils (can't remember which) from the half length spring that I started with before the valve began to move. Also, be aware that the valve stem must slide very freely in its guide, but not so freely that it leaks a lot of air. There are a lot of "judgement calls" involved here, that can only be learned by experience, and paying your dues in frustration..--Of course, it goes without saying that your sparkplug must be installed during this operation.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I have been herding cats all morning, trying to get a good long consistent run from the engine. I have had a couple of good two minute blasts from the engine, and then just as I was about to run in and get my camera, it would die again. /$"%!!! Right now, I have hit the wall for today. Things are very tight in the area where the shoulder bolt holds the cam gear in place, and I have shaved away the head of the shoulder bolt until I can no longer get my Allen wrench to engage the formed drive hole in the end of the shoulder bolt, and I can't get another bolt until tomorrow. The cam gear with the cam on it is 1/2" thick, and the shoulder bolt is 1/2" long under the head. I ended up putting a .020" deep counterbore in the outer face of the cam gear to let the head of the bolt "set in" a bit so it doesn't pinch the cam gear against the sideplate, but right now I am finding that the counterclockwise motion of the cam gear is unscrewing the shoulder bolt because I can't get a good enough grip on the head of the bolt to tighten it. I have been "making do" with a very scary fuel container, so I may rob the fuel tank off the Atkinson until I get this engine sorted out.


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## Brian Rupnow

I have just redesigned the "IGNITION POINTS MOUNTING PLATE"--If you haven't built it already, then don't. I will make the new one tomorrow and mount it, then put up a new drawing.


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## Brian Rupnow

The ignition points bracket has been redesigned and remade. The reason for that is that it completely covered the head of the shoulder bolt which holds the cam gear to the sideplate, and there were simply too many things all trying to occupy the same space. My bad---Sorry 'bout that. What I have done is effectively "rotate" the ignition points counter-clockwise until they completely cleared the head of the shoulder bolt, then made a new bracket to fit that position. It picks up the same holes in the sideplate as the previous bracket did. I have made and installed the new bracket this afternoon, so I am sure it fits alright.








 

View attachment IGNITION POINTS BRACKET-2.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

Sooooo---Lets take stock here. I know of 5 people internationally who have said they intend to build this engine. We have Luc, a fellow Canadian from Ottawa, Canada, Cogsy from Australia, Smithers from Tasmania, Canman from England, and RiverGypsy from (I think) England. Pat H from California USA has expressed interest, but I don't think he has actually started a build. I'm curious---Has anybody built the air cooled cylinder yet? I have built the water cooled version, and although it seems like a lot of machining, it looks good and holds water. I know Luc is making progress, and Cogsy has shown us a pair of nice steel flywheels. Luc--did you find a cheaper source for grey cast iron? Do any of you fellows who are CNCing the parts have assemblies yet? I know that the engine runs now, (which is always a bit of a relief on a new design.) I hope to have mine totally sorted out this week so that I can proceed with the governor part of the build. So far, out of all the parts built, I have only had to redesign one part, the ignition point bracket, and I have posted a new drawing of it and machined and installed the new part on my machine and posted pictures of it in place. Tomorrow when I get another shoulder bolt for the cam gear I have high hopes for a better, longer run.---Brian


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi Brian
just came back from shopping in state Harbur Freight of course
I got some pictures I'll be posting in a few minutes I took picture of a nice ROD for you
As for the material for the cylinder nothing yet, but I'm going to try finding a piece of cast iron pipe, or will simply use CRS for the cyl and aluminium press on it with fins.

I will rename the post to Canadian Horsepower building Brian's engine 
many mates sent me email wondering when I was going to post, simply not following Luc'S build


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## canadianhorsepower

hey here are the pictures of the ROD


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## Swifty

Hi Brian, I have decided to make your engine as well, so that will make 3 Aussies who are making them. I have recently finished making a Lobo Pup Twin Diesel, but have been frustrated over the last couple of weeks trying to get it running. I have shelved it for the time being as I want to get stuck into some machining, which I find therapeutic.

I will be making the air cooled version and changing the fasteners and bearings over to metric sizes. Picked up some material this morning, so will start a build post shortly.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow

Swifty--Good on ya, brother!!! Welcome to the build. May you have great success and a good running engine. If you need any help, just holler.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--I just called Metal Supermarket in Barrie A piece of 2" diameter grey cast iron x 6" long is $11.28. I have also put a call in to Speedy Metals, and they are going to call me back with a price. Where on earth did you get a quote of $68???


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> Luc--I just called Metal Supermarket in Barrie A piece of 2" diameter grey cast iron x 6" long is $11.28. I have also put a call in to Speedy Metals, and they are going to call me back with a price. Where on earth did you get a quote of $68???


 
Brian -- I just called them again "Metal Supermarket" I asked for a 2x6
and it's now 46.00 the excuse is that I have to pay shipping
If Barrie as it in stock can you mail one piece to me COD by mail


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## Brian Rupnow

Yes Luc, I can do that. Let me check a couple of other places first.---Brian--How far are you from downtown Ottawa? I just checked with the Metal Supermarket guy here in Barrie, and he said the price is $11.28 plus tax if I pick it up. He said that if the store in Ottawa has it the price would be the same and no shipping charges if you can pick it up there.


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## Brian Rupnow

Well, for the moment I am stymied!! Engine has good compression, engine has good spark. Valve timing SEEMS to be correct. Have had many short duration runs with Traxxas carb, but nothing that lasts long enough to make me happy. When I had my home built carburetor on the engine, it would start and run good if I choked it, but then die off as if it was starving for fuel. This has got me questioning whether my home brewed carburetor has sufficient venturi effect to lift gas from the tank. I am going to take a break and ponder this issue. I need a break for the rest of today. --And I may have to source a vacuum pump to test the carb's venture effectiveness.


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> This has got me questioning whether my home brewed carburetor has sufficient venturi effect to lift gas


 
I would star by removing the ball inside the check valve
and place a small pieces of making tape to partially block
the inlet part of your card, like a choke


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## Brian Rupnow

Got up this morning and dove back into the fray. Got lots of short duration runs with the store bought Traxxax carb, but nothing that looked like it was going to stay running. Of course I spent the morning tweaking the ignition timing, twiddling the carb jets, changing the valve timing, praying to small engine Gods, trying to remember everything I have ever learned about small i.c. engines. All this time I'm thinking--I have great compression--I've got enough spark to quick fry an elephant--the fuel is brand new---What in Hell is keeping this engine from running??? Finally, I quit, and thought about yesterdays runs with the home brewed carb. The engine would start fine if I choked it with my finger over the carb air intake, but then die out when I took my finger away. This sounds like its not getting enough gas. Now, there is an old trick I learned when I was just a pup to see if the carburetor has enough designed in venturi to suck gas up from the tank. Take the carb off the engine, open the needle valve 3 turns, set the fuel line into a glass of clean water, put the end of the carb that would normally screw into the engine in your mouth, and SUCK FOR ALL YOU'RE WORTH!!! If your carb has sufficient built in venturi, the water from the glass will raise up the fuel line (of course you must have a "see thru" fuel line to observe this.) You will even get a spray of atomized water into your mouth. (That's why you use water, not fuel). I tried this trick with my carb, and NADA---Nothing coming up the fuel line!! How can this possibly be??? I have built this same carb 3 times now and it always worked before!!!--Okay---Lets take off the anti flow back valve--it was just attached with Loctite.---Holy Crow---It works---SPIT---SPIT!!! Damn--That was the trouble all along!! Take off the store bought carb and put my carb back on, minus the anti flow back valve. Engine starts right up and runs like a top. I can't believe it. I shut the engine off, and start it again. I do this 3 or 4 times, then run to get the video camera. Now in the video, the engine isn't running smoothly and sedately. Its galloping a bit. That's because this is not a throttled carburetor, it is adjusted with the main jet needle, and that is the only adjustment on it. Its intended for a hit and miss style engine where the speed is controlled by the hit and miss mechanism. If left unattended, the engine would probably run faster and faster until it self destructed. Now that we have the engine running, seemingly continuously for as long as I want it to, I will tweak the carb a bit more, then proceed with building the governor parts.---Brian


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## starnovice

Was the anti flow back valve on backwards or just interfering with the flow?


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## Brian Rupnow

No, the anti flowback valve was okay. It was more a matter of bad machining on my part. It was supposed to be a fairly snug fit over the fuel inlet on the bottom of the carburetor. Somehow I managed to bore it oversize, and it was a sloppy fit. I thought I could get by with just using a lot of Loctite on it, but obviously it didn't make a good seal, and was sucking air around the sloppy joint.---Brian


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## metalmad

HI Brian 
Congrats on the runner!
Pete


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## Brian Rupnow

And now, back to "Making it up as I go along!!" Since the engine runs, and I feel that some of the pressure is off, I am going to post a few "In Process" shots, just because Pat Hutcheson likes them so much. This afternoon I started the top section of the governor stempost. I had a piece of 2" diameter aluminum about 10" long. The stempost top section has to be 1.55" long, the jaws on the chuck stick out 1" past the face of the chuck, and I needed about 1/2" clearance to keep my lathe tool away from the spinning chuck, so I cut a piece 3" long and mounted it in the chuck. Faced the end, turned 1" of length down to 3/4" diameter, then turned down another 3/4" of length to 1 7/16" diameter. Took it out of the lathe and over to the bandsaw to cut most of the part I didn't need off, then swung it around and put the 3/4" diameter in the lathe chuck, faced the end, drilled and reamed 7/16" thru all, put in a 0.570 counterbore x .674" deep with the boring bar you see in the second picture, then used a file to radius the exposed end like the drawing calls for. Now its time to set up the rotary table on the mill and machine some of the other features.


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## Brian Rupnow

metalmad said:


> HI Brian
> Congrats on the runner!
> Pete


Hi Pete, and thank you for the congratulations. I always figured it would run. The part that is going to be real trick is making it run as a hit and miss with the flyball governor. Keep your fingers crossed for me!!!


----------



## Path

Brian Rupnow said:


> Sooooo---Lets take stock here. I know of 5 people internationally who have said they intend to build this engine. We have Luc, a fellow Canadian from Ottawa, Canada, Cogsy from Australia, Smithers from Tasmania, Canman from England, and RiverGypsy from (I think) England. Pat H from California USA has expressed interest, but I don't think he has actually started a build. I'm curious---Has anybody built the air cooled cylinder yet? I have built the water cooled version, and although it seems like a lot of machining, it looks good and holds water. I know Luc is making progress, and Cogsy has shown us a pair of nice steel flywheels. Luc--did you find a cheaper source for grey cast iron? Do any of you fellows who are CNCing the parts have assemblies yet? I know that the engine runs now, (which is always a bit of a relief on a new design.) I hope to have mine totally sorted out this week so that I can proceed with the governor part of the build. So far, out of all the parts built, I have only had to redesign one part, the ignition point bracket, and I have posted a new drawing of it and machined and installed the new part on my machine and posted pictures of it in place. Tomorrow when I get another shoulder bolt for the cam gear I have high hopes for a better, longer run.---Brian




Brian,
Here's my update ..

Doing much better but not there yet. I did have enough energy to at least clean up the shop last Saturday... getting ready to make some chips. I have the bearings and the stock for the base and the two sides. Modeled the 3 pieces in SW to get the g-code, now fine tuning the program ... getting real close.
I'm building the water cool version.

Pat H.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Pat--I'm really glad you're feeling better. I'm glad that you are going to go ahead with this build. What part of Cali do you live in? 5 years ago my wife and I flew into Reno, rented a car, and drove up around Lake Tahoe to Sacramento, then up through the heart of the "Gold rush of '49" to Downieville, then on up to Eureka. We drove down the coast highway to Napa Valley, spent 4 days in San Francisco, then drove on south to San Louis Obispo, turned and went inland to Bakersfield, then up into the Kern Valley Reserve and out across Death Valley to Las Vegas. All my life I had heard about how beautiful California was, but nothing I had heard prepared me for the reality of it. My God, what a beautiful state.---Of course, it wasn't all on fire when we were there. My only regret is that we didn't go south of Los Angeles and see some of southern California.---Brian


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## ozzie46

Congratulations on another runner Brian. I'm learning loads from your builds.

 Ron


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## Brian Rupnow

Now this is a truly dreadful job. Its only redeeming factor is that it looks nice. But on a manual machine, interrupted cut, no power feed---thump-thumpa-thumpa. However, it DOES look nice!!!


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## Path

Brian Rupnow said:


> Pat--I'm really glad you're feeling better. I'm glad that you are going to go ahead with this build. What part of Cali do you live in? 5 years ago my wife and I flew into Reno, rented a car, and drove up around Lake Tahoe to Sacramento, then up through the heart of the "Gold rush of '49" to Downieville, then on up to Eureka. We drove down the coast highway to Napa Valley, spent 4 days in San Francisco, then drove on south to San Louis Obispo, turned and went inland to Bakersfield, then up into the Kern Valley Reserve and out across Death Valley to Las Vegas. All my life I had heard about how beautiful California was, but nothing I had heard prepared me for the reality of it. My God, what a beautiful state.---Of course, it wasn't all on fire when we were there. My only regret is that we didn't go south of Los Angeles and see some of southern California.---Brian



Brian,

Me too . Nice to be feeling better.

We live in Camarillo (Venture County) which is about 60 miles north of LA, along the 101. When you were in San Luis Obispo you were at the northern edge of Southern California (using the popular used term) ... so you were in Southern California . When we vacation we often visit San Luis and  Monterey Bay ( just north of San Luis) which is about 2 1/2  hour drive north along the coast. Glad to here you enjoyed your visit. 

woohoo1 On your latest find ... now the real fun begins. 

Oh and thanks for the in process pictures.

Pat H.


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## Brian Rupnow

Last set up shot  for today. One more operation to go, and for that I have to turn the rotary table 90 degrees so the centerline of the chuck is horizontal, to drill the pivot holes.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And there we have the final set-up shot of machining the top section of the governor stempost. Also a shot showing it in its final home position. Those are the last set-up shots I will be doing in this build. I am coming right down to the wire in remaining parts to be built, and none of them are complex enough to warrant set-up shots as I build them.


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## Brian Rupnow

Man, we are getting right down to the nitty gritty here. There is a lot of fine tuning required in this governor. I might have a video of the governor operating later today (not on the engine).


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## AussieJimG

Now that's interesting! My latest engine runs but gallops quite badly and the galloping seems to be affected by the level of the temporary fuel container. So I figured that it probably needed a check valve like you have (had) and like I have on one of my previous engines.

Now I dunno.

So I will keep on watching to see what the master diagnostician decides. I am in awe of your ability to solve these problems and just love watching.

Jim


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## jwcnc1911

That governor is looking good.  This is the part im wanting to see.


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## Brian Rupnow

Fun with flyball governors---


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## Brian Rupnow

This is the rod that runs down through the center of the governor. The three arms which have the flyball weights on them act on the head of this rod and force it down against the lever when the flyballs fly out from high revs.


 

View attachment GOVERNOR PUSH ROD-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

A linkage to work with yesterdays governor--


 

View attachment SUB ASSY GOVERNOR LINKAGE-1-RUPNOW.PDF


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## canadianhorsepower

hi Brian do you have the PDF of your last post?


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## Brian Rupnow

You will need one of these to set the spring tension on the governor.


 

View attachment GOV. ADJUSTING SCREW-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

I am detailing these parts from the solid model as I am building them---


 

View attachment GOVERNOR SPRING BALL --RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

And one spring adjusting knob for the governor---


 

View attachment GOV. SPRING ADJUSTING KNOB--RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

I can't believe it!! I only have one part left to make, and that's the latch for the exhaust valve lockout. It seems to me like I've been machining forever, but really its only been about a month. The spring that you see on the adjusting post with the knurled knob is probably not going to be the spring that gets used---Its just on there for the sake of taking the picture. I have also put up a picture of the other side of the engine, so you can see the nose of the pivot shaft sticking out from the sideplate. The lockout latch will fit onto the end of that rod. My 3D software informs me that there are 111 parts in this engine, not counting the fasteners. Tomorrow, or possibly even today, I will make that lockout lever and get the engine running in hit and miss mode ---I HOPE!!!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

The bevel gears---


 

View attachment RushGears_2010_M2424 with set screws.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

This is a short video showing the rotation of the cross shaft that operates the latch which holds the exhaust valve open. I have the latch up on my mill right now, and hope to finish it in the morning. Cross your fingers for me guys.--If I've lived right, I may have a hit and miss engine hitting and missing sometime tomorrow.---Brian


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## canadianhorsepower

It's comming along good
did you buy the brass ball or you machine them yourself?


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## Brian Rupnow

Those were purchased 5/8" brass balls that I robbed off one of my other governors. I don't want to buy more brass balls until I see what size is going to work satisfactorily.


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## gus

Hi Brian,

Basis I got Webbie running tomorrow ,I try very hard not to build your current engine. Temptation
is too great. Most likely succumb. 

Please post video when it is up and running.


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## Brian Rupnow

Time for a break!! I had thought that perhaps the 5/8" balls I used for the governor flyballs might be too light, but I can put that one to bed. They are lots heavy enough. In fact, once that engine starts to fire, its almost impossible to keep them from flying out and engaging the lockout latch immediately. I am probably going to need a stronger spring on that springpost to counteract the "flying out" of the flyballs. I have had the engine running in hit and miss mode this morning, but not consistently enough to make a video. For you fellows wondering where to get brass balls, you can buy them from many online sources, you can make your own, or you can just use a 5/8" length of 5/8" diameter brass or steel rod. They don't have to be round. When I was making up the 3 arms that the governor balls attach to I had a brain wave and tapped them #5-40 and attached the balls with a counterbored socket head capscrew. It has to be counterbored, otherwise the head of the bolt will hit the flywheel on that side.


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## canadianhorsepower

do you have another gear that would recuce the rpm the ball are going at
ek like a smaller gear on the crank and a bigger one on the governor


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## jwcnc1911

Am I the only one that all this brass ball talk is just killing?


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## canadianhorsepower

jwcnc1911 said:


> Am I the only one that all this brass ball talk is just killing?


  what do you mean?


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## Brian Rupnow

canadianhorsepower said:


> do you have another gear that would recuce the rpm the ball are going at
> ek like a smaller gear on the crank and a bigger one on the governor


 No Luc--I want them to go that fast. The faster they go, the smaller they can be. Since this is a prototype, I wasn't sure that 5/8" brass balls would be heavy enough. Now I see that they are of sufficient size, in fact I could probably have gotten away with 1/2" diameter. You will see on engines where the flyballs are geared off the camshaft which runs at half the crankshaft speed, either the balls are much larger or they are geared up from the camshaft to rotate faster. The only real "work" they do is move the latch in and out of the exhaust valve lifter.


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay--After a days playing in the garage trying to find the "sweet spot" for this hit and miss engine to settle in at, I've made a discovery. The "down force" on that center rod in the governor stempost must be pretty damn significant. It has worn a hole almost completely through the brass lever. Of course I've had the spring wound down real tight to keep the latch from making the engine go into its "miss" cycle too soon.  This "downforce" is directly proportional to the weight of the brass balls and the speed at which they are turning. I meant to take a picture of the hole, but didn't notice that the camera was still in video mode, so we now have a little video of it. I may try running it without the brass balls, only with the weight of the lever arms themselves to see what effect that has.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

--Its been a long and somewhat frustrating day. Probably the best thing to do is to silver solder a small ball bearing into the indentation in the brass lever. That would last for a hundred years. I may have to reduce the size of the brass balls from 5/8" to 1/2", or perhaps make them of a lighter material, i.e. aluminum, which should theoretically decrease the downforce on the rod by a factor of three. Today I was chasing other inconsistencies in the engine. Sometimes it starts and runs like gangbusters for as long as I want it to. Other times it doesn't want to start. That shouldn't happen. Unless something is changing, then the engine should start and run the same every time, no matter what. The only thing that should conceivably change is the temperature gradient, and even that shouldn't cause dramatic differences in the engine behaviour. I am lucky, in that the engine has really great compression and the bearings, gears, etcetera all seem to be doing their jobs remarkably well. ---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Good morning, my international engine building friends. After a long day spent in the shop yesterday with my new engine, its time for a report. Take heart--All of the major mechanical components work like a charm. That strange crankshaft/flywheel combination works very well. The single Viton ring give this thing all kinds of good compression. The valves seal very well, but I found that as usual I had both the intake and exhaust springs a bit too long and had to keep trimming them one coil at a time. You do this with the spring on the intake valve until, with  the engine  turning over at a good clip either by a belt driving motor or by your electric drill, you can see the exposed end of the valve start to "dance" as the suction from the intake stroke pulls it open. It won't move much, but it does have to move some.--otherwise your engine can't pull any air or fuel in for combustion. The exhaust valve spring has to be strong enough to hold the cam follower bearing in contact with the cam at all times, but not so strong that it causes undue wear on the face of the cam.--This is more a "seat of the pants" judgement call than anything. There are no clearance issues anywhere on the engine. The new ignition points mounting bracket that I had to design works well, and leaves the head of the shoulder bolt which holds the cam gear in place accessible so that it can be tightened adequately. I have been chasing a gremlin that seems to live in my carburetor, causing the engine to run fine for a while (you seen that in one of the videos I posted) and then without changing anything to not want to start at all. I assure you, this has nothing to do with the design of the engine, and everything to do with my carburetor building abilities. I did discover yesterday that the 5/8" diameter brass governor balls may be too heavy for the application. Don't rush out and buy any 5/8" brass balls at this stage of your build. I like the look of these balls "size wise" but they may end up being made of aluminum--I simply don't know yet. I have to do some more work on the governor mechanism. It works, but the steep angle that the latch mechanism sets on tends to wedge itself in place on the underside of the pushrod and not want to drop out when it should. I have a "fix" for that, and will be posting it this morning. Cheers, and keep up the great work I see being displayed in your posts.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

This is what I mean by the angle of the "latch" being too steep. It swings up into place alright, actuated by the flyball governor, but then when the engine slows down and the latch should drop out and let the valve pushrod resume its normal operation, it can't because it is "trapped" in place by the force exerted by the exhaust valve spring.--Thus the engine just dies out and stops. I have a simple fix in mind, which won't change any of the parts you already have, but will require one more small part being built. I will be posting that part and an explanation of how it works later this morning.


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## Cogsy

I'm sure whatever your fix is will be elegant and simple Brian, I just wanted to let you know that on my Upshur I considered just this problem occuring, so I placed the 'latch' on the pushrod just short of full exhaust valve opening. This means each exhaust cycle in 'miss' mode still slightly opens the exhaust valve further and takes the weight of the spring off the latch. Then when it's ready it just falls out. Just some food for thought on the off chance you hadn't considered it.


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## Brian Rupnow

Al--I had considered that, but I think what I have in mind will work better than what I currently have.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

There--That should do the trick!!! The latch is shown engaged in this picture. When the latch disengages it swings straight down, and there is no "notch" to hold it in place. The L shaped latch extension is bolted to the existing 3/16" square valve lifter rod with two #4-40 socket head capscrews. Fine tuning is accomplished by grinding the end of the horizontal latch rod until it disengages satisfactorily at the correct time.


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## johnny1320

Will the spring pressure from the exhaust valve not hold the arm in place causing it to not disengauge? unless the valve lift is higher than the arm then it will lift it off, or am I missing something?


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## Brian Rupnow

Johnny--You are "sort of" right. The trick is that you don't set the length of the pivoting latch to hold the valve absolutely wide open. ---Maybe about 3/4 or 7/8 open. That way the engine can't develop any compression, so it doesn't fire, and begins to slow down.--However--every time the cam comes around it still "bumps" the cam follower bearing and tries to open the valve all the way. As soon as the engine slows down, the governor spring retracts the flyball arms and the pivoting latch wants to retract out of the way. At the next bump from the cam, the pivoting arm is released and falls back completely away from the L shaped latch. Then the engine can fire again and start the whole process over again.


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## Brian Rupnow

So----Five years ago, when all of this machining business was brand new to me, I built a ball turner. I only ever turned one ball with it (which can be seen on the end of the handle). I did a big write up and post of it on HMEM and now I can't find it. The ball turner has hung on the wall of my shop ever since, never used. Today I decided I would make three 5/8" balls from aluminum for the flyball governor. Damn---I couldn't remember how to set it up. I basically had to set and study on it and try to figure out how to set it up to turn balls instead of elliptical ogives. (Thank you Marv for that fabulous word.) Then when I took the top slide off my lathe to mount it, I see that I was smart enough at the time to trace around the perimeter of it with a scriber to show me where to put it if I ever used it again. Tomorrow I will see if I can make 3 balls.


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## starnovice

Brian,
 Here is a link to your ball turning article.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/ball-turner-mysteries-unveiled-3355/

Pat Wicker


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## Brian Rupnow

Starnovice---Thank you so much for finding that link for me. I spent half an hour looking for it and gave up. I have copied the link and saved it in a file of my projects so I can find it again .---Brian


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## starnovice

just glad to be able to give something back to someone who has given so much to us.

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay--I'm here to tell you---My future as a ball turner is very dim!!! I got one rather ball like part out of 3. Ugly damned things, to say the very least!!! The plan has changed as of right now to use 3 pieces of round 5/8" aluminum x 0.42" long. (That will have the same mass as a 5/8" diameter ball, or at least very close). Once I'm happy with the way the flyball governor works I will buy some 5/8" aluminum balls, as they seem to be a bit beyond my machining abilities.--So---The ball turner goes back up on the wall---this time possibly forever!!!


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## starnovice

The first time I saw one of these ball turners, one of our club members brought it and a ball to a club meeting.  He was peacock proud of the 2 inch ball he had turned until someone asked him why it looked like an egg.


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## Swifty

You have the ball turner, don't give up so easily. I was planning to make my own ball turner when it comes time for me to start on the governor.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow

Paul--If the shipping didn't cost so much from here to Australia, I would send you this ball turner. In a world full of such exciting things to build, the last thing I want to do is drive myself crazy trying to make perfect aluminum balls.---Brian


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## Path

But Brian ... 

They don't have to be perfect .... so what if they are a little egg shape. 
That makes your engine unique ... give it a try. 

Pat H.


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## Brian Rupnow

I haven't ran off---I'm just enjoying a couple of "machining free" days. The thrash to build this engine and prove out my drawings was pretty intense and I needed a break. Tomorrow I will put the new weights on the governor arms and make the latch extension, then see if we can get things into full "hit and miss" mode.---Brian


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## GKNIPP

Hello Brian, would you please post the PDF's of the catch lever and the bevel gears.  I am thinking you forgot to attach them.  Thank you so much;

Greg


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## Brian Rupnow

GKNIPP--If you have been following the thread you will see that in the last couple of days I have changed the catch lever and added a piece for it to engage. This is a change from my original catch lever drawing. I will have to make drawings and save them as pdf files and post them. I will do that right now.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

This is the new "catch lever" as I determined that the earlier design was going to 'hang up" and not release properly. Also shown is the new "latch extension" that the "catch lever" now catches on.





 

View attachment CATCH LEVER FOR HIT AND MISS ACTION--RUPNOW.PDF


View attachment LATCH EXTENSION-RUPNOW ENGINE.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

This is a revised drawing of the valve lifter pushrod assembly. The only change is that I have added two 0.112" diameter clearance holes to the 3/16" square pushrod and removed the "notch" that was originally there for the first "catch lever" design that didn't work out.


 

View attachment EXHAUST PUSH ROD SUB ASSEMBLY-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Swifty

Brian, a couple of days break will renew the mind as well as the body. Always found that if I had a problem designing something, a break away for a short while allowed me to toss around the problem in my mind and then attack it with renewed vigour when I got back to it. Keep up the great work.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Paul. I get so deeply involved in one of these builds that they take over my life. Its fun, its exhilarating, but it eats me up too. I will be back in "machining mode" by tomorrow, and after that (hopefully) we will soon have a runner.---Brian


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## gus

Hi Gurus,
Made my own RT to turn out the governor balls for the American Popcorn Engine.4" RT from LMS or Arceurotrade cost "an arm n leg".
My first trial turned out pheasant eggs. Subsequent results were good enough.I cheated .Called my former machinist for advice. 
See fotos of my DIY RT. And the American Popcorn Engine.

Lessons learnt, Cutter must be centred on the RT table and tool height also.


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## Brian Rupnow

This is the governor with aluminum weights (I can't really call them balls) in place of the 5/8" brass balls. The weights shown have the same mass as 5/8" aluminum round balls would have, and are almost exactly 1/3 the weight of the brass balls. What does this mean in terms of how the governor will work?-Well, for one thing, the resulting "downforce" on the central rod will only be 1/3 what it was before. This means that the adjusting spring will only have to be screwed down to 1/3 of the compression force it needed before to "balance" the governor balls. This in turn means that the friction between the end of the central rod and the brass lever below it should only be 1/3 of what it was before. I am rapidly get into the field of "Try it and see" engineering "  here, so I will post the results after I try this.----Brian


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## Lawijt

Those weights looks also great. It is something other than Always those round balls.


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## Brian Rupnow

Remember the hole that the center shaft on the governor had drilled partway through the brass lever? Well, I scrounged around in my parts bin until I found a .235" dia. bearing ball (okay, it was probably 6mm). I opened the hole in the brass lever until the bearing ball would just drop into place, and silver soldered it into the hole. Bet ya that's not going to be worn away anytime soon!!! Why isn't the hole for the bearing exactly on the center of the radius in the end of the brass bar? That's a real good question. I don't know myself. Put it down to accumulated tolerances, poor machining practice, or just diabolical misfortune. If I have to, I can grind a bit off the end of the center shaft to accommodate the fact that the bearing ball "humps up" a bit above the brass lever.


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## Brian Rupnow

Well--So far, so good. All the new parts of the governor and latch mechanism are built and mostly in place. I have set things up so that when the cam follower is riding at the highest point on the cam there is approximately 1/16" between the new L shaped piece and the aluminum track that guides the 3/16" square lifter rod, and about .020" between the end of the "catch lever" and the L shaped piece. This means that when the latch is in the position shown, the valve can't close all the way, so the engine stays in "miss" mode until the governor slows down and the "catch lever" no longer is forced up into the position shown. The next revolution of the cam moves the 3/16" square rod all the way to fully open, and there is no pressure from the valve spring acting on that "catch lever" so it revolves down out of the way and lets the valve close so the engine can fire again. Jeez, its hard to explain what is happening here. I hope you can understand me.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Hey Guys---I'M ON A CLOUD THIS MORNING!!! Here is the first run in Hit and miss mode. Everything beyond this point is just fine tuning!!!!!!


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## Lawijt

Great Brian. So the balls do the hit & miss??


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## canadianhorsepower

good work Brian Thm:Thm:


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## Path

Way to go Brian ...woohoo1


Pat H.


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## Brian Rupnow

Yes, the lighter balls were the answer. I will try and describe why the heavy brass balls didn't work in this case. For a given amount of speed, a heavy ball will exert more centrifugal force than a lighter ball. You can liken this to swinging a small pebble around on a 24" string, and swinging a large rock around on a 24" string. The large rock, when swung at the same speed as the small pebble, will pull the string much harder. In my situation, the brass balls were trying so hard to fly out away from the stempost at low to medium speeds, that I had to really crank down on the adjuster spring to counteract this force----Because---If the balls fly out too soon, the engine won't develop enough rpm to keep running. I had to put so much pressure on the spring to keep the heavy balls from flying into hit and miss mode as soon as the engine started to turn over, that there was tremendous friction between the end of the vertical rod inside the stempost and the brass lever. The friction was so great that it actually drilled a 3/16" diameter hole half way through the brass lever. This friction fed back directly to the engine and put so much load on the engine that it wouldn't keep running. Now with the much lighter aluminum "balls", all of the friction issues are lessened by a factor of 3, because the aluminum balls are 3 times lighter than the brass balls. I still have some carburetor tricks that I want to try, but I feel that the engine is a success. Although I was certain that the overall design was correct, I had a real underlying worry that maybe I was leading a bunch of good folks down a bad road. I feel very relieved now that I have seen the engine run as in the video, and from here on in, it will be a matter of fine tuning.---Brian


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## Swifty

Great work Brian, can't wait to get mine running, but a bit of a way off yet.

Paul.


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## jwcnc1911

Well done!  Congrats on your success Brian, you must feel like a champ!


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## johnny1320

Great job Brian, Canadian engineering


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## Tarheel

Congratulations Brian ! Another great build.


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## Brian Rupnow

Now that the engine runs, the next stage of course, is to get it to run better. This engine seems to require far too much manual choking (old finger over the air horn trick).--and then it floods very easily. Conventional wisdom dictates that if the bore of a carburetor is too large for the engine, then air passing thru the carburetor body will not have enough velocity to create the venturi effect and lift fuel from the tank properly. I am going to build a smaller bore carb today and see what the results are.


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## gus

Hi Gurus,
My Antique HT Ignition Coil just died of old age. Very doubtful the next antique will last .Just ordered a CDi from cncengines.com. Incidentlty looks identically to the CDI that comes with OS Petrol Engines.
CDI will take a week or so to arrive. Plus I will away in Thailand for a week.CDI will take on contact points. 
Its housekeeping tomorrow.

Hi Brian,
Looking forward to d/l the PDF prints of your engine.


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## Lawijt

Here a very interresting website for ignition systems & a lot of other products.

http://www.justengines.co.uk/index.html

Barry


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## Brian Rupnow

Today I have built a carburetor with a smaller bore, to see if it will make the Rupnow engine a little smoother and not require so much choke. I will install it and make some tests, and if it improves things I will post drawings so you can fabricate it.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Today, for the first time in 6 weeks I have got out of bed wondering "What will I do today".--Actually, it feels surprisingly good!! I don't really have anything left to do on the engine until the electronic ignition kit I ordered from S&S Engineering arrives. That should be an experience, as I have never used one before. The small bore carb I built yesterday didn't make any stunning performance difference, so I have set it aside for now. This engine seems to starve for fuel, then flood easily if choked, and I simply don't know at this point whether it is a carburation issue or a spark issue. I have a tendency to suspect the spark. When I first built the ignition system, consisting of a 12 volt automotive coil, points, and condenser, I had a big fat blue spark at the sparkplug. Now I have a rather anemic looking white spark which still jumps the gap in the plug when the plug is laying out on the engine block, but it looks weak to my eyes. I will post more when I get the electronic ignition sorted out and installed.----Brian


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## Lawijt

Why do you Always working with "contact points" and not with a magnet & a hall sensor?? is it for the looks??

I know that contact points give errors when there is a little oil or grease on them.

Also , when the oil burns not good away , there will be some carbon in the sparkplug. So you will have not a good spark - or a spark on the wrong place.

I know that really good , because I have still my Aprillia 250 RS!! Wrong or bad oil & the engine will stop. Sparkplugs are very....?? Don't know the word in English. Sorry.

Barry


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## Brian Rupnow

Lawjit--Best answer--Because I'm old, and I know old style ignitions. I have purchased a new electronic ignition package and will be trying it out on this engine as soon as I get it.--Actually, I have just started a new thread over on the "Questions and Answers" section of the forum about this very subject.---Brian


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## Lawijt

Indeed Brian , I know they also very good. I have in my collection & very old ROGERS spark engine. But the pressure in the carter push some fuell with oil out the crankshaft. With that old engine there is some wear & there come a little more out. That come on the contact points & that is really burning in. That go really fast.Here a video with the Rogers with a self build electronic ignition system:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5cP2TfKMjA&feature=share&list=UU1BXeMnWzIagQAC7fKYx0_g[/ame]

Just after that I see my brand new car full of oil!! Not a happy Barry.


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## gus

Hi Brian,
Congrats. "Doubting Gussy" now has no more doubts to plunge in to build this engine. Three years ago Australian Model Engineering Magazine had prints for a version too big for my mini lathe and mill.
Your Hit & Miss engine size fits in. 
With the watercooled version,engine could run for hours w/o boiling over.


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay guys--Here is the first of many assembly drawings. The sheet you see here is sheet #1 of a 3 sheet series. The link will get you all 3 sheets as pdf files.---Brian


 

View attachment ASSEMBLY #1-RUPNOW ENGINE.PDF


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## gus

Will put the CDI when it comes in and report on Webbie's performance.

7:30am now and at 9:30am mate comes over to pick me up for the airport to Thailand.
Will shop around the automoblie parts shop looking for brand new HT Ignition Coil.


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## Brian Rupnow

This is the updated drawing of the crankshaft.


 

View attachment SUB ASSY CRANKSHAFT-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

An updated governor assembly---This is a two sheet drawing but there is only one sheet displayed here. The download link will give you both sheets.


 

View attachment GOVERNOR ASSEMBLY--RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

an updated exhaust pushrod assembly--Again, this is a 2 sheet drawing, both sheets show up in the attachment.


 

View attachment EXHAUST PUSH ROD SUB ASSEMBLY-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

The most recent drawing of the large bore carburetor


 

View attachment SUB ASSY-CARBURETOR-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

The most recent assembly of the needle portion of the carburetor.--You may want to wait for my ongoing testing on the small bore carburetor before you make this part.


 

View attachment SUB ASSY NEEDLE TOP AND NEEDLE.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

The most recent check valve assembly drawing (nothing has changed).


 

View attachment CHECK VALVE FOR CARB-RUPNOW.PDF


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## Brian Rupnow

That pretty well covers all of the assembly drawings. I will be pulling all of the pdf files together into an package and posting a link, eventually. I am waiting for my electronic ignition right now, so can't do anything more until it arrives. The engine runs in hit and miss mode as you have all seen in the video I posted. I do have some issues with either carburetion or spark, I'm not certain which at this point. Mechanically, everything seems to be fine, no clearance issued have appeared throughout the build, and the engine turns over very freely with the ball bearings on the crankshaft and connecting rod. If anyone is aware of any missing drawings or information, please let me know.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

And yes, there will be a headgasket. It is the same for both air cooled and water cooled versions of the engine.


 

View attachment TEMPLATE FOR HEAD GASKET.PDF


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## Path

Thanks Brian 

Your drawings look great ... SW sure is nice to work with.

Pat H.


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## Swifty

Thanks Brian for the excellent work on the drawings and design. I had been thinking about a head gasket, but you now have that covered.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow

A bit of knowledge about hit and miss carburetors, as I understand them---
Carburetors for hit and miss engines are a very simple carburetor, consisting of an outer body, a main carburetor central "jet" with an approximate 0.040" hole in it, and a needle valve which varies the amount of fuel allowed to escape from that .040 hole into the air stream. The "suction" required to pull fuel out of that .040" diameter hole into the stream of air flowing thru the main body of the carb is created by the venturi effect in the carburetor. Venturi effect is basically a principle of air movement that says that any time air flowing thru a tube meets a restriction in the tube, a low pressure area will be created at or just behind the obstruction. In the case of a simple hit and miss carburetor, the "'obstruction" that creates the venturi effect is the carburetor jet itself. The low pressure area will be on the engine side of that "obstruction", and that is why the .040" diameter hole faces inward to where the engine is, so that the maximum venturi effect in that area will "suck" the fuel from the carburetor jet.----- Air bleed carburetors are commonly used on engines which have a throttle plate in them. When the throttle opens and venturi induced vacuum drops, the air bleed hole helps keep fuel flowing so the carburetor doesn't stall. Since there is no throttle plate on a hit and miss carburetor, and the hit and miss engine is never ran at an idle, they don't use carburetors with an air bleed hole. Basically, hit and miss carburetors run "wide open" all the time. The speed of the engine is controlled by the strength of the springs that restrain the governors from flying out and preventing the exhaust valve from closing. We want the engine to fire with the largest possible force (carburetor wide open) so that the kinetic energy created will give those big flywheels enough of a "kick" that the engine will immediately fly into miss mode and cycle many times before it fires again.----This is why hit and miss engines have the anti flowback check valve attached directly below the carburetor. The fuel level in the gas tank must be 1/2" to 3/4" below the orifice in the carburetor jet to prevent gravity flooding. When the engine goes into "miss" mode and there is no air being sucked thru the carburetor, the gasoline in the line will immediately fall back to the tank level below the carburetor if there is no check valve. Then when the engine slows enough to fire again, it will have to coast thru one or two more revolutions to let venturi action suck the fuel back up into the carburetor jet. Remember--when the engine is coasting in "miss" mode, the exhaust valve is held open so there is no "suction" created by the piston to suck air in thru the carburetor air inlet, so consequently there is no venturi effect in the carb when the engine is coasting, and no fuel being sucked into the engine.  These extra two revolutions required to get fuel back up from the fuel tank level and actually spraying out of the .040" hole in the jet may slow the flywheels down so much that the engine then just stalls out instead of coasting thru one more compression cycle so it can fire again.


 

View attachment SUB ASSY--CARB AND CHECK VALVE.PDF


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## mikegw1961

Brian
Is there a drawing of the wrist pin as I cannot find it.


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## Brian Rupnow

mikegw1961 said:


> Brian
> Is there a drawing of the wrist pin as I cannot find it.


Its a trick---There is no drawing!!! Many of the plain pieces of cold rolled steel shaft that form pivots, wrist pins, etcetera are not drawn. In the particular part you are asking for, its a piece of 3/16" cold rolled round shaft x 13/16" long.


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## Brian Rupnow

Today my CDI ignition arrived from S&S Engineering. What you see here is what $105 bought me. 4 rechargeable batteries, a case to hold them, a 110Volt adapter to charge them, an on/off switch with 3 sets of leads coming from it, a "black box" that contains the CDI, a Hall effect switch, and  a very small magnet (which is not in the picture, but is represented in the picture beside the Hall effect sensor). I am not sure that I have everything sorted out properly, but will be sending this picture to Roy Sholl the owner of S&S for verification before I blow anything up or burn anything out.  It seems pricey, but consider what I have been using--An automotive 12 volt coil--$50, a set of Chrysler ignition points at $16, a 12 volt condenser at $8, and a 12 volt battery which is not in any way portable at $100 minimum---which all adds up to about $175 and is not portable (easily at any rate). This whole electronic ignition thing is very new to me, and I will try to share what I know and find out with you. As I understand it, the magnet (which I mount in some type of non conductive nylon or plastic) rotates on the crankshaft, and every time it passes the Hall effect sensor (shown just below the picture of the magnet) it causes the Hall effect switch to trigger the CDI and output a spark to the sparkplug.  I will probably try to be clever and mount the Hall effect switch on some kind of rotatable mount so that I can mess around with the timing while the engine is running.---Brian


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## Path

Brain,

Glad you are taking this on  .. another learning experience for both of us and others I'm sure. 
Will be following closely ...

Pat H.


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## Brian Rupnow

Pat---I am rather excited about this. I don't mean to imply by what I am doing that the Rupnow engine won't run satisfactorily with old style ignition points and coil. Its just that I have been wanting to try a CDI ignition for some time now, and this is an opportune time. I do know that the engine runs, as we all seen in the videos I posted, but I have my doubts about the coil and points I am using. If nothing else, this is hopefully going to settle the issue of ignition. If an engine runs, and there are no variables, then it should always start and run much the same, allowing for variations in temperature and fuel. I know beyond doubt that there are no mechanical variables. Having tried the smaller bore carb, and not seeing any real difference in "stability of performance", I will now have a go at the ignition.----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

I just received an email from Roy Sholl, verifying that my wiring set up is correct. Roy does pass along one caveat--DO NOT FIRE THE CDI WITHOUT THE COIL WIRE HOOKED UP TO A SPARKPLUG OR SPARK TESTER. It appears that doing so will fry the CDI and/or the Hall effect sensor.


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## AussieJimG

Brian Rupnow said:


> The "suction" required to pull fuel out of that .040" diameter hole into the stream of air flowing thru the main body of the carb is created by the venturi effect in the carburetor. Venturi effect is basically a principle of air movement that says that any time air flowing thru a tube meets a restriction in the tube, a low pressure area will be created at or just behind the obstruction.



The actual mechanism is of no importance but I was pondering this the other day and came to the conclusion that the "suction" is probably just caused by the piston lowering the pressure in the manifold. The tube does create a restriction and this contributes to the pressure reduction.

I don't think it is a venturi effect.

Putting a finger over the intake increases the "suction" still further when we are pulling fuel up to start the engine.

Of course if I am wrong, I will be sure to be told in short order. Its one way to test a theory.

Jim


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## Brian Rupnow

Jim---Far be it from me to argue with all of the model engine builders who have gone before me. I have always heard it referred to as a function of the venturi effect, both in automotive carburation and model engine carburation. One of the arguments in favour of venturi effect, is that smaller bore carbs create more "suction" at the fuel orifice than larger bore carbs. Why---because the air has to flow thru a small air intake faster than thru a large air intake to fill a given amount of space, and the faster the air flow is, the greater the venturi effect. That is why its such a bad thing to "over carburate" these small engines. If you put too large a carb on them, the slower air movement thru the carb creates less venturi effect, and the mixture becomes too lean for proper ignition.


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> Pat---I am rather excited about this. . Its just that I have been wanting to try a CDI ignition for some time now, Brian


 
Brian- just wondering why  you change your mind When I wrote that I was going CDI and offered to supply you with a unit you said " I prefer to stick with what I know" why are you changing direction???


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## Brian Rupnow

canadianhorsepower said:


> Brian- just wondering why  you change your mind When I wrote that I was going CDI and offered to supply you with a unit you said " I prefer to stick with what I know" why are you changing direction???


Because---I think there may be a problem that I can not properly diagnose with "What I know". I appreciate the fact that you offered me a cdi ignition, it was very kind of you. However, I have essentially zero knowledge base regarding electronic ignitions, and if you had sent me "components", I wouldn't have known what to do with them. I opted to buy a pre-assembled kit from S&S because that takes all the guesswork out of it.


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## Brian Rupnow

Tomorrow I am going to build something I never heard of until today. Roy Sholl warns not to fire the cdi without having the hi tension wire hooked up to a well grounded sparkplug or a "spark tester". There is a picture of a "spark tester" on Roy's web page www.cncengines.com but I'm pretty sure that if I dig around in my shop, I have the material here to build one.


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## Cogsy

Brian - I have next to zero knowledge about these ignitions, but I do have a Chinese version of this setup running successfully on my Upshur model. I used a brass disc on the crankshaft to mount the magnet and it works fine, so I'm not sure you need a non-conductive material, possibly just a non-magnetic material. As you are contemplating, my hall sensor is mounted to a disc as well, which I can loosen and adjust while the engine is running to change the timing. I'm sure you'll have no problems.

Edit to add : The disc my sensor mounts to is also brass.


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## Swifty

Will definitely look at going with a CDI for my engine build. Will have to get a pre assembled kit as I also know almost zero about electronics.

Paul.


----------



## CMS

Brian, I have three engines, all of the hit & miss type that are fired with the electronic ignition systems from Roy Sholl. Two are of the buzz type and one is a single spark and they function nicely. 

Craig


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## Brian Rupnow

I got up this morning and built a "spark tester". Rather than fill up this thread with information about it, I started a separate thread at http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f25/spark-tester-21484/#post228614


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## johnny1320

Brian Rupnow said:


> Jim---Far be it from me to argue with all of the model engine builders who have gone before me. I have always heard it referred to as a function of the venturi effect, both in automotive carburation and model engine carburation. One of the arguments in favour of venturi effect, is that smaller bore carbs create more "suction" at the fuel orifice than larger bore carbs. Why---because the air has to flow thru a small air intake faster than thru a large air intake to fill a given amount of space, and the faster the air flow is, the greater the venturi effect. That is why its such a bad thing to "over carburate" these small engines. If you put too large a carb on them, the slower air movement thru the carb creates less venturi effect, and the mixture becomes too lean for proper ignition.


 
The venturi effect is caused by speeding up the air flow, I am not sure that the smaller opening alone causes this, a venturi has a convergent inlet and a divergent outlet, as the air speeds up through the venturi there is a pressure drop, the fuel is drawn in by the pressure differential. air speeds up pressure drops air slows down pressure increases. So maybe a little taper in on the carb inlet would help? just a thought

John


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## Brian Rupnow

So, after much trepidation and a few long distance phone calls to Roy Sholl in Ohio, I have made my first spark with the CDI. Its all wired up like a plate of spaghetti here on my side reference table, but By God, I have sparks sir!!! On my new super-dooper spark tester even!!! Now for some modelling. It looks like the magnet (which is a tiny thing 1/8" dia. x 1/8" long) can be easily mounted in a disc of aluminum that will set where the ignition cam is currently setting. The Hall effect switch, which comes mounted in a plastic D tube, may require a bit of head scratching. Its simple to mount---Not so simple to mount in a manner which lets it be adjustable to advance or tetard the timing "on the fly".


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## Brian Rupnow

This is not intended as something that others who are building my engine should make. It is what I intend to do to mount the Hall effect switch and magnet on my engine for the cdi ignition. First, the ignition points, mounting bracket bracket and ignition cam are removed. The ignition cam is replaced with a 1.25" dia. x 3/8" thick aluminum disc with the 1/8" diameter x 1/8" long magnet set into the face with Loctite. The Hall effect switch is supplied mounted in a D-tube. The D-tube is epoxied into the light blue aluminum bracket. The light blue aluminum bracket is bolted to the yellow aluminum bracket, which has a round "register" in the far side that extends .050" into the counterbore in the sideplate and bearing cap, and a .400 clearance hole for the crankshaft to pass through. The curved slot is centered on the crankshaft and lines up with one of the existing #8 tapped holes in the sideplate which previously held the points bracket in place. The D-tube clears the magnet in the disc by about .020". The yellow aluminum plate can be rotated 20 degrees right or left to advance or retard the timing while the engine is running, by loosening the one #8 bolt off a bit. The aluminum disc with the magnet will have one set screw to hold its position on the crankshaft, and this will allow the initial "rough" ignition timing.


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## canadianhorsepower

be careful
 were your magnet will be in your green will determine 
your dwell diff RPM diff Dwell


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## gus

Hi Brian & Pat,

Mine should have arrived by the time I get home from Thailand. Will be another experience. 
Musket carry soldier  trying out latest Gatling Gun.Will be fun.


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--If I've done this right, the following is copied from the set-up brochure that I got with my CDI. Notice point #9 about 'dwell" angle". Truthfully, I had to google "dwell angle" to see what it was. It is explained as " The amount of time (measured by the degree of rotation of the distributor cam) the contact points open on a points type ignition system".

*CDI SET UP*



1.  Insulate the HallSensor from the magnet face

2.  InsulateMagnet/Magnets

3.  Magnet gap is notvery important

4.  Magnet size isnot extremely important

5.  FACT &#8211; Ifthe sensor triggers by turning over by hand it will see it at maximum speed.The maximum speed for the CDI is not the sensor and or magnet but the finitetime required to charge the capacitor.

6.   Hall Sensor face and South Pole of magnet &#8211;can also be triggered from back side with North Pole

7.  Good grounding toengine base is important

8.  Firing CDIwithout spark plug attached can    damage Hall Sensors

9.  CDI systems donot have dwell angles

10.       White wire islogic high

11.       Points can beused that are normally closed

12.        CDI can be triggered in several ways

13.        Hall sensors are integrated circuits and arestatic sensitive

14.        Wide voltage range &#8211; 3.8 to 6 volts DC

15.        Compatible with all battery types

16.        Low current draw

17.        Black wire is always ground &#8211; excluding sparkplug wire

18.        Red wire is always battery plus voltage

19.       White wire istrigger signal wire for CDI

20.       Do not mount CDIrigid to frame or base &#8211; my choice is Loctite Stick &#8220;N&#8221; seal or foam top andbottom if mounting inside a box. CDI should not bounce around or be able tovibrate excessively.

21.       Naphtha is thebest solvent to use with Stick &#8220;N&#8221; Seal


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian ----- good luck


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## Brian Rupnow

So what did I do today?? Made the first bracket to mount the Hall effect sensor for my CDI. This is the main bracket which bolts to the side of the engine and is adjustable about 20 degrees in either direction when the engine is running.  In the solid model, it is the yellow coloured bracket. I had a handle left over from something else that didn't work out, so I mounted it on the new bracket. There are a couple of interesting set-up shots for what is basically a flat plate with a round boss on one side. I roughed out the plate, put in the tapped holes and cut the major contours, then drilled and reamed a 7/16" hole. (This is a clearance hole that the 3/8" crankshaft runs thru the center of.) I made up a short 7/16" stub arbor, mounted it in the 7/16" hole and cross drilled it for a 1/8" steel dowel. This gave me something to hold onto with my 3 jaw lathe chuck, and you can see it mounted and mostly turned in the first picture. Then it was over to the rotary table to finish off the areas on the boss that I couldn't do on the lathe and to put the curved slot in it. The third shot shows the plate mounted on the engine, complete with handle. Tomorrow I will build the aluminum disc with the magnet mounted in it and the piece which the Hall effect sensor D-tube epoxies into (which bolts to the plate I made today.


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## Brian Rupnow

I had an attack of "Just one more partitis", so I made the aluminum disc and Loctited the magnet into it.--Funny thing about the magnet---The south pole is supposed to face the Hall effect switch.---Roy made it easy for me, and painted the south pole of the magnet black.---But the black rubs off REAL EASY!!! Damn, I hope I've got that magnet in there the right way!!!---And if you were wondering---There is about .030" clearance between the other side of that aluminum disc and the face of the gears.


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## Brian Rupnow

Lord help us now!!!-I've passed the point of no return!!! The last bracket is made and installed, the D-Tube with the Hall effect switch is epoxied into place. All that's left is to wire everything up. If the gap between the D-tub and the magnet looks like a bit too much, I planned it that way. The aluminum disc which just clears the gears by 0.030" is only held in place by one #10-40 set screw. I can loosen it of and slide it out closer to the D-tube if I need to. I figured it was safer to do it that way rather than hit a target of .020" gap between the magnet and Hall effect D-tube and then run out of room.---Brian


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## canadianhorsepower

hey Brian--- How is your timing going to be change if your rotating
the hall sensor itself. ??
Just using the magnet strength signal??
look good


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc --that bracket which holds the hall effect sensor rotates about the centerline of the crankshaft. It can rotate 20 degrees clockwise or counter clockwise from the position shown. Since it rotates around the same center as the crankshaft, that will position it ahead of or behind the magnet which rotates about the center of the crankshaft also. I sent you the ball-turner this morning.


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## canadianhorsepower

Thanks for the info but still cant picture it in my head

Thanks for the ball turner I'll try to make a good use of it

hopefully I'll be back on my engine next week early I walk beside it everyday
and  tell him not to cryRof}Rof}


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## Brian Rupnow

Aha!!! I must have lived right, and got the magnet in the correct way. The Hall effect does get triggered by the magnet when I turn the engine over, and I get a big fat spark!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay, Guys--I have a bit more knowledge to share on this CDI business. Having read through all of the information on the CD that came with the kit, I have seen the warning repeated numerous times, to NOT ENERGIZE THE HALL EFFECT SENSOR UNLESS THE SPARK HAS A GOOD PATH TO GROUND OR IT WILL FRY THE HALL EFFECT SENSOR AND POSSIBLY THE CDI. Now ya can color me dumb, but I was a bit concerned. The magnet is embedded in the aluminum disc, and the Hall effect sensor is epoxied into place---does this mean I can't even turn my engine over? I was concerned enough that I sent Roy Sholl an email and asked him. Okay---So I was dumb!!! The warning only applies if the power is on. I kind of suspected this, but I wasn't sure, and I have seen a lot of posts about people inadvertently burning out their hall effect sensors. Better to be a bit dumb and ask than burn something out before I even got to use it.


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## Brian Rupnow

I just got home 2 hours ago from a 3 day marathon with wife and two grand daughters. Went to see a live production of "Mary Poppins" at the theater in Grand Bend, Ontario, on the shore of Lake Huron, stayed overnight in London, Ontario, then on to a day at Niagara Falls, spent walking about 300 miles at Marineland, then  a ride on the "Maid of the Mist". Grand daughters enjoyed every minute of it, but I had to lay down for a one hour nap as son as I got home!!! I got up from my nap and took the "Rupnow Engine" out to the test bench, with the new CDI hooked up on it. I took my camera with me "just in case" and turned on the fuel and give it a flip. Engine took off and ran like gangbusters as can be seen in the video. So what does this prove??---Well really, absolutely nothing, other than the fact that the engine will run with old style points or with CDI ignition. The sparkplug doesn't care where it gets its spark, as long as it gets it!!! Now on both of the videos I have posted, running with and without the CDI, the engine has stopped of its own accord. I didn't shut it of. It just up and died, right in the middle of the video. My focus now will be to "tune and tamper", until the engine can set there and run all day, until I shut it off. I will keep you posted as I make continuing progress, but I knew you would be interested in seeing this.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

ALRIGHT!!! WE HAVE 20 MINUTE SUSTAINED RUN!!! Ever since I built this engine, it has behaved as though it was overcarbureted. I built a smaller bore carburetor last week, and tried it on the engine, but didn't see any real difference so I took it off again. The biggest "tell-tale" of an overcarburated engine, is that they are chronically starved for gas. They respond very well to "finger over the air intake" choking, but as soon as it burns the extra gas that was brought in by choking, they stall out and have to be choked again.--and they are very easy to "over-choke" and flood. A smaller bore carb works better because the air has to flow much faster thru a carb with a small "throat" to fill the cylinder when the piston travels from top dead center to bottom dead center. This faster air flow creates more venturi effect at the fuel orifice, and consequently sucks up more fuel, so there is a higher fuel to air ratio than on a large carburetor. They require less manual choking, and consequently are less prone to flooding issues. The reason that it didn't solve my problem last week was, as I suspected, the 12 volt coil I was using was giving intermittent spark. Once I got the CDI on the engine, and the smaller carb, it fired right up and ran for 20 minutes until I shut it off. I am going to post the drawings of the smaller bore carb right now, and the video of the sustained run. I now consider this engine t be a complete success, and will wait anxiously to see some of the other Rupnow Engines that are being built come to life.---Brian Rupnow


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## Brian Rupnow

This is the small bore carb which seems to give me better results with the Rupnow Engine


 

View attachment RUPNOW SMALL BORE CARB ASSEMBLY.PDF


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## Swifty

Runs great Brian, I'm about to order my CDI ignition and some spark plugs. I may get it running without the governor first, then carry on making the rest. I might use the bevel gears that I made in the past, their about the right size. The project that I have in mind for them is a long way in the future, so I can make another set later.

Paul.


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## Cogsy

Congrats Brian. My single biggest worry with this build is the carby. I haven't looked at the drawings at all yet, but I'm concerned about my ability to make it. I'll likely leave it til I've done everything else then cross my fingers and go for it.


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## Brian Rupnow

Cogsy said:


> Congrats Brian. My single biggest worry with this build is the carby. I haven't looked at the drawings at all yet, but I'm concerned about my ability to make it. I'll likely leave it til I've done everything else then cross my fingers and go for it.


Cogsy--It took me less than a day to build the small carburetor. The biggest trick is getting the fuel inlet tube and the needle valve tube lined up to solder them. I recommend making up a one time jig to hold everything in alignment to solder them.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

If I have done this correctly, the following link will get you all of the Rupnow Engine files, both for water cooled and air cooled versions, and both conventional points ignition and CDI ignition.--There are 55 drawings.-Brian Rupnow
http://www.mediafire.com/download/i29m8a48dfd1a86/RUPNOW_ENGINE_FILES.zip


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## wagnmkr

Brian, it was nice to meet you up at the gas and steam show.

Thanks for all you work on this engine. I am going to attempt to build one this winter.

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow

wagnmkr said:


> Brian, it was nice to meet you up at the gas and steam show.
> 
> Thanks for all you work on this engine. I am going to attempt to build one this winter.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom


 And it was very nice to meet you Tom.--Its always nice to be able to put a face with the different members I correspond with.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

So, this is it. I have found that I CAN adjust the speed when the engine is running by turning the governor spring tension knob to put more or less pressure on the compression spring. The more the engine runs, the better it runs. It is a noisy devil, mainly because of the meshing of the 45 degree bevel gears. This is the last video I will post unless I change something on the engine.


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## Path

Sweet success.

Pat H


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## Brian Rupnow

Pat--I feel really good about this. Even though I felt very confident about being able to design a new/different engine, it was a great leap of faith to ask 10 other folks from around the world to join me, before I had even proven my design. There were a couple of times when I had that "Oh God, what have I done??" feeling, especially when I was getting the intermittent firing from the old 12 volt coil, which is very difficult to diagnose. That was the main reason that I went to the CDI ignition.--In general, it either works or else it doesn't work, making it a lot easier to diagnose why an engine won't run consistently. The download link I have posted to the drawings will get the water cooled version, the air cooled version, the version with ignition points, or the version with CDI ignition. The engine is out in my main garage, running away like a trooper, as it has been for the last two hours. This is a happy ending to a summer long story. I expect I will see a lot more "Rupnow engines" built, now that the design has proven to be a success, and the drawings are all free. ----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

I just ordered three 5/8" diameter aluminum balls off e-bay for an outrageous price. They are selling them in lots of 3 and they are tapped 1/4"-20 thru. I don't see the 1/4"-20 thread as being a problem, I will probably fill the threaded hole with JB Weld and then put in a counterbored hole for a #5 shcs. I may paint the balls with some flat finish paint, as there are really weird reflections off the array as it spins, which make it look like its kind of lop sided. (Its not---if I block the light source with my hand, then the array is very consistent in form.) The engine is running so good now, I can't leave it alone. My wife wants to know why I keep disappearing out of the living room and going downstairs to the main garage and running "That noisy thing!!!"


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## Philjoe5

Incredible work Brian.  It took lots of _Cojones_ to do what you did.  Congratulations.

I'd have gone along for the build but I'm starting my first IC and I'm looking at a year + project.  When I'm done maybe I'll start on your design.

Phil


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## Brian Rupnow

Philjoe--The people with the _cojones_ are the ones who jumped on the bandwagon and started to build the "Rupnow Engine" before anyone knew whether it would actually run or not. I don't think I would have done that myself.


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## Philjoe5

Brian,
Given your rep for building things that WILL work, I'd say sure the builders were taking a chance, but the odds were good you'd fix any problems along the way - which you did.  Nicely done.  

Have you run through a tank of gas yet?

Cheers,
Phil


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## Swifty

Be careful Brian that your wife doesn't get jealous of the engine, got to spend some time with her as well.

Paul.


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## Teza

Brian, fantastic journey, loved every bit of it, thank you for your hard work, I have downloaded the plans for future use (have to get started on some of these projects soon, looks like I have more than one retirement worth saved up)
Cheers
Terry


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## danstir

Thanks for the great thread and congratulations on the working engine.


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## Brian Rupnow

As I accumulate more running hours on this engine, one of the nicer things I have observed is that it doesn't leak a drop of water. I didn't THINK it would, with the rubber O-rings at each end of the water reservoir, but of course, one is never really sure until the engine has ran for a while. I never did install the oil cup for the cylinder. I find that running a bit of 2 cycle oil in with the fuel keeps the cylinder/piston lubricated enough, and is far less messy. Since the main bearings and con rod big end are sealed ball bearings, they don't need any oil. The water in the reservoir does get hot. Not so hot that it would scald your finger but definitely hot enough to warm up your lunch (if it was a very small lunch) as they used to do with the full sized hit and miss engines.


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## Swifty

Maybe you can put a tap on the water tank and make a hot drink.

Paul.


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## canadianhorsepower

Swifty said:


> Maybe you can put a tap on the water tank and make a hot drink.
> 
> Paul.


a Rupnow coffee makerRof}Rof}


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## Brian Rupnow

There is a fellow over on the other forum I post on who has been playing with full sized hit and miss engines for years. According to him there was one fellow who attended county fairs and antique engine shows who always prepared a hot lunch by suspending it in a plastic bag in the water tank on his hit and miss engines.


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## gus

Brian Rupnow said:


> Cogsy--It took me less than a day to build the small carburetor. The biggest trick is getting the fuel inlet tube and the needle valve tube lined up to solder them. I recommend making up a one time jig to hold everything in alignment to solder them.---Brian



Hi Brian,

Good tip. This was where I messed up the carb for Webbie. For all future carbs
will use your idea. Please post jig.


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## gus

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the prints which went into my " Brian Rupnow" engine folder. Signed up for the Mac Version of WinZip and was struggling for an hour to get hold of it and d/l your Hit & Miss prints. Still awed by Webbie.Today will be last day with her. Spent too much time spinning her. 
Time to print your engine drawings for serious viewing.Be honest.With my limited skills and machine tools, can Gus succeed in building and running this engine.


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## Swifty

Well I think that your skills are up to a build, no rush, slow and steady gets you there.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow

Gus--There is nothing here more complex than the Webster. If you can make the flywheels, you can make the Rupnow Engine. I will start a separate post for the carburetor soldering jig.---Brian
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f25/carburetor-assembly-jig-21557/


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## Brian Rupnow

Bit of a surprise this morning. I got up early, and thought "I wonder now that everything is working so well, if I should try the larger carburetor again."--You see, that bore of carb works just fine on the Odds and Ends engine which has the same 7/8" cylinder bore. I removed the small carb and put the large carb back on,---and after opening up the needle valve a couple of turns, the engine started up and runs just as well as it did with the smaller carb I built. I don't have any really good explanation for this. I did discover that there was some crud in my fuel tank that was obstructing the fuel flow sometimes, and had cleaned out the tank at some point during the build. It is possible that what I seen as fuel starvation with the large bore carb was simply the fuel line being blocked by crud in the tank. Oh well, all's well that ends well. Now I have a spare carburetor.----Brian


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## nowramfg

You will have to make an engine to suit it now!!!! Great running engine BTW. I hope mine runs half as well!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

nowramfg said:


> You will have to make an engine to suit it now!!!! Great running engine BTW. I hope mine runs half as well!


One of the ironies of small engine building, is that although it is very easy to overcarburate an engine, it is almost impossible to undercarburate them. This is a simplification, and not taking real "work" into consideration, but to have an engine that starts well and runs consistently. It was only by sheerest accident that I found out about the blockage in my fuel line. I am using the "fuel ball" off an antique gas powered iron for my fuel tank. When I change carburetors, I pull the fuel line off the carb and plug the end of the neoprene line with a wooden pencil to stop gas in the tank from flowing out while I change the carb. While I was working I looked down and seen that the pencil had fallen out of the line which was laying on the workbench, but no fuel was flowing out. I thought "How can that be?? I know the tank is full of fuel!" I picked up the line and blew into the end of it, and after I felt something dislodge in the line, I could hear bubbles in the tank. I laid the line back on the tabletop, and fuel began to flow from it. Immediately I knew that there was something in the tank that was intermittently blocking the fuel line. I unbolted the tank from the tabletop, rinsed it out 2 or 3 times with fresh gas, which I then dumped out, and blew everything out with compressed air. After that, I found that both carbs, the large and the small work just fine on this engine.---Brian


----------



## nowramfg

Brian, that reminds me of our experience 4weeks ago. We flipped in a race, and had to replace the tail tank and bladder. The car ran well for 2 laps then went limp. After a few other changes, spark box etc, we gave up on that race night. took car home and found that the new bladder had dispersed crud thru the whole fuel injection system. It is amazing how a 'little crud" can ruin your whole day!
This is our car, a Roush Yates 360c.i. 700HP sprinter. It is driven by a 17 Y.O. who has been racing since he was 5. I just help maintain and race the car with his dad and him every sat night. He/we also race a 600Yamaha Mini Sprint on Friday nights.(I am in 1 of the pics)
The driver has won 8 main events this year alone, 2 Season C'ships, and is leading this year. Total feature wins are around 35 over the past 3 years on dirt.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I originally bought the fuel tank off an old Coleman iron to act as the tank for my Odds and Ends engine, but I never really liked the look of it on there. Today I built a new mount  bracket and put the tank on my Rupnow Engine. I like the looks of it better on this engine.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And for my next amazing stunt---A box to carry the engine around in. Unfortunately, transparent pine is rather hard to get around here, but you can see the general idea in this solid model. The base of the box will be hollow and hold the CDI module and the batteries, while the top of the box (which is shown as transparent) will lift off to display the engine. Since these engines are such dirty little piggies to run for half an hour, the engine will be bolted in place on the bottom section of the box and the whole thing will be wash down capable for clean up. I have started a separate thread for the build of this box. over at http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/engine-transportation-display-box-21574/


----------



## gus

Brian Rupnow said:


> Gus--There is nothing here more complex than the Webster. If you can make the flywheels, you can make the Rupnow Engine. I will start a separate post for the carburetor soldering jig.---Brian
> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f25/carburetor-assembly-jig-21557/




Hi Brian,

Thanks. Looks like my new carb will have perfect needle and nozzle in perfect alignment.Getting my A------- into first gear to get started on Rupnow engine.
After making the Webster,I have gained new experience and confidence to build your engine.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I wonder why we haven't got anybody from USA building this engine? We have Tasmanians, Australians, Englishmen, Singaporeans??, Canadians, but no Americans. Come on Yanks---We need at least one builder from our big neighbour to the south.---Brian


----------



## Path

I'm still here ... been well enough to catch up all the things that didn't get done.
Well ... almost ... that jar just won't get empty, always some to do paper in it.

Actually I have started ... really ...

Base and side frames are rough cut to size.

Will be posting soon.

Pat H.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I am beginning to worry about the 3 aluminum balls I ordered off E-bay. They were shipped on the 13-Aug, supposedly, and now it is the 25-Aug. To give them the benefit of the doubt, snailmail is terribly slow coming here even from inside of Canada, so I will wait another week before I start to shake the trees and make nasty inquiring phone calls. EDIT EDIT--I was finally able to contact ebay, and they have until the 31 Aug to deliver within the timeframe they originally promised.


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## Path

Brian,

Any way that I can obtain the SW models for the CDI version?

Thanks, 


Pat H


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Path said:


> Brian,
> 
> Any way that I can obtain the SW models for the CDI version?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Pat H


Pat---There are only 3 or 4 pieces that are different to make the engine the cdi version. I will try zipping the individual pieces up and emailing them to you.---Brian


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## Path

Thanks Brian,

Got them all and placed them on the top assembly model. 
Looks like we can remove one of the two mounting (for the points bracket),
or maybe move one of them near the center.


Pat H.


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## stevehuckss396

Kind of cool to see updates on 4 of your engines on the same night. You must be one proud papa.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Steve--I AM proud!!! Speaking as an "Old Guy", an observation that I can make is that as you get older, your world gets smaller and smaller. Creating a new engine and seeing it get built internationally is absolutely thrilling. I am really enjoying the responses and seeing this engine "come to life" all over the world. This is the most fun I've had in a long time.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Pat--the adjustable bracket for the hall effect switch picks up the right hand bolt hole that was originally one of the bolt holes for the points bracket. The other hole becomes redundant.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I've got balls!!! That's quite a statement, isn't it. What I meant to say, err---umphhhh----The 5/8" diameter aluminum balls I bought off E-Bay showed up today in the mail. Actually, I'm impressed. They look much better than the balls I tried to make. They have a 1/4-20 blind thread part way through, but I knew that and was expecting it. --I actually thought that the hole went all the way through, so the fact that they don't is a bonus. I think I ended up paying something outrageous, like $26 for the 3 of them, but hey--If you can't make them yourself, then you pay the price!!! I'm too busy playing box-maker right now to do anything with them, but when I get the box finished I will mount these on the engine.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

There!!! We are back to having round balls on the governor. I don't like the look of them as well as I did the brass balls, but they are about 66% lighter than the brass balls, so should work better for the application. I was going to paint them, but I really don't want to.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Maybe somebody can check my math----This engine seems to have astonishing compression, to the point where I can barely turn it over by hand. I just ran a quick and dirty calculation, and it appears that the compression ratio is about 12.5:1---Maybe I've made a mistake. If not, that's an uncommonly high compression ratio for a hit and miss engine.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Brian Rupnow said:


> Maybe somebody can check my math----This engine seems to have astonishing compression, to the point where I can barely turn it over by hand. I just ran a quick and dirty calculation, and it appears that the compression ratio is about 12.5:1---Maybe I've made a mistake. If not, that's an uncommonly high compression ratio for a hit and miss engine.


 
did you just calculate the volume or did
you take exhaust cam in consideration


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I just calculated the combustion chamber volume when the piston was at top dead center and the volume when the piston was at bottom dead center and divided the large number by the small one. From what I can gather after doing a bit of research is that on a flat top piston, my method of calculation is correct.--I'm not sure what Luc is referring to.  I just did a bit of internet prowling, and it seems that compression ratio on original hit and miss engines was from 3.5:1 up to 5:1. This being the case, I have absolutely no idea of what effect the high compression ratio I have calculated will have on this engine. It starts. It runs. Seems to run fine, no pre ignition nor other visible problems. I suppose it is possible that the early engines had such low compression because they didn't have good quality gasoline and because most of these machines were started by hand.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Back when I was initially trying to get my engine started for the first time, without much success, I thought --"Hmmm----Maybe Chuck Fellows was correct, and the sparkplug is too shrouded by metal to fire properly."---I spent a bit of design time attempting to come up with a way to open up the area around the sparkplug quite a lot, without having to make a new cylinder head. I was able to remove a lot of metal from around the sparkplug in the solid model, but then I managed to get the engine running okay, so never bothered with the modification to my engine. Last night after calculating that the current compression ratio is a whopping 12.5:1, I thought---"I wonder what I could do to lower the compression ratio?", and I remembered the modification I had made to the solid model of the cylinder head. As it turns out, that single modification to the cylinder head would serve two functions. It would certainly "unshroud" the sparkplug, and it would drop the compression ratio to 7:1 which is more in line with the compression ratios of the original hit and miss engines.---As of now, I have no intention of making that modification, because the engine runs fine, and I see no need to.--However, if I see at some point in the future that there is a problem with the high compression ratio, it is a fairly simple modification to the existing cylinder head to lower the compression ratio.


 

View attachment CYLINDER HEAD OPENED UP IN SPARKPLUG AREA-RUPNOW.PDF


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## NEL957

Brian
I've enjoyed your build. I do not know for sure, but I believe gasoline 30 years ago was a lot more volatile than it is today. It would clean oil based paint from brushes, today it will not. I don't believe there is any petroleum in it anymore. The compression of the old 1 lungers was low because they did not have starter like we have today. And that was the technology back then. Look at the model "T" it only had 6:1 compression, not like our engines today with much higher compression. 

Again loved your builds.
Nelson Collar


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## Brian Rupnow

I had a little surprise today. All of the internal combustion  engines I have built up to now, ( a total of 5) were test run on either my shop workbench or on the corner of the reference desk in my engineering office.---and they all were bolted down to be test run. Yesterday I finished the "Transportation and Display Case", and this morning I started the Rupnow Engine for its first run. My God, the Display Case base, which the engine is now bolted to, acted like it was possessed. It leapt up and down, shimmied from side to side, and took off travelling across my work bench. I thought for a minute I was going to have to chase it around the garage!!! I had never stopped to think how much unbalanced vibration these hit and miss engines created. I guess my next stop will be the hardware store to search out some anti-vibration feet to attach to the underside of the wooden base. Now I understand why so many of these hit and miss engines are bolted to little wagons with wheels on them. I am assuming the wheels allow the cart to roll back and forth a bit to dampen the vibrations from the engine.


----------



## AussieJimG

All mine run away like that too. I will be watching the "master fixer" solve this problem. You always find a solution and I am always amazed.

Then I will copy (of course)

Jim


----------



## canadianhorsepower

> I am assuming the wheels allow the cart to roll back and forth a bit to dampen the vibrations from the engine.
> http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Br...005/ENGINEBOXFINISHED004_zpsd0b967e3.jpg.html


 
Hi Brian-- It looks good
as for the vibration the Wheel has nothing to do with the dampening
of the vibration.
 the weight does it hall same thing when you bolt it to your workbench
the clamp does not damper the vibration but the weight of the bench does.

I think that if you mount the motor on 4 valve spring you will be able do cancel the vibration using different tension on the spring

I'm back to the build tomorrow check for pictures soon


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I'm going to call this "The Last Post". The engine is finished. The "Transportation and Display" case is finished. The governor has its 5/8" diameter aluminum balls in place, and they seem to work fine. I must say, I am impressed with the electronic ignition. This is a build that has carried me through the summer, and its something new, and a little different. Thank you to all who tuned in, and had a look or something nice to say. I am going to set back now, and hopefully watch as other "Rupnow engines" come to life around the globe. ---Brian Rupnow


----------



## AussieJimG

canadianhorsepower said:


> Hi Brian-- It looks good
> as for the vibration the Wheel has nothing to do with the dampening
> of the vibration.
> the weight does it hall same thing when you bolt it to your workbench
> the clamp does not damper the vibration but the weight of the bench does.
> 
> I think that if you mount the motor on 4 valve spring you will be able do cancel the vibration using different tension on the spring
> 
> I'm back to the build tomorrow check for pictures soon



The mass of the workbench stops the engine from moving. But the wheels work in a different way; they break the 'stiction' that causes the engine to move in one direction. The best example of wheels doing this in on the Trebuchets that the Romans used.

And you can see the full sized engines rocking gently back and forth on their wheels at the shows.

Jim


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I'm having a "What if" moment. I've "improved" the engine as much as I can, in regards to carburation and ignition. (I went back to the small bore carburetor in the end). The only observation that I have, is that this engine floods very easily when you are trying to start it. ---and then it doesn't really clear itself that easily with more cranking, even with the fuel needle fully closed. In its current form, the sparkplug is setting back in a fairly narrow slot in the head. If I milled away the material which is shrouding the sparkplug, as shown in post #472, I wonder if that would help ease the flooding problem. I KNOW it would lower the compression, but I don't think there is any direct "cause and effect" between compression and flooding. Since this is a brand new "one of" engine, I simply don't have anything to compare it to form an opinion. All I can really do is wait until some more of the engines currently being built come "On line" and then compare notes with the builders..


----------



## Cogsy

Looks and runs great Brian. Just wondering why the water in your hopper is orange? Is it anti-corrosive or something similar? I was planning on using a tip I gained from this site and coating all surfaces which will come in contact with water with clear nail polish (the wife kindly donated a bottle but don't tell her). So far my Upshur has had the same hopper full of water for over 2 months and still doesn't show any signs of the ali hopper or cast iron cylinder corroding, but if you know a better way I'm all ears.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Al--The water is clear. The outside of the cast iron cylinder is rusty, and the inside of the aluminum reservoir is shiny.--That makes the water look orange, but it really isn't. I caution against coating the inside of the water reservoir or outside of the cylinder with anything, because it interferes with the heat transfer to the water.---Brian


----------



## Cogsy

Thanks for the explanation Brian. I agree with what you're saying about the heat transfer, it's not something I'd given any thought to at all. Having said that, I doubt I'll ever be really 'working' the engine and I want to avoid corrosion, so I might do it anyway. The beauty of using clear nail polish is that I can tip in a $3 bottle of nail polish remover and get rid of the coating easily if I ever need to. I originally was going to slosh some thick paint around in there as a coating - I'm sure glad I didn't do that!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Cogsy--When I built the Kerzel hit and miss engine, I used a cylinder made from 316 stainless steel. That stuff doesn't rust EVER, but it costs a fortune. I was given a left over piece just big enough to make the cylinder from one of the "real" engineering jobs I put through the local machine shops in Barrie.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I made a mistake.---Back when I calculated the engine compression ratio as being 12.5:1 I forgot to include the volume of the "cave" that the sparkplug sets in in my calculation.--When it is taken into consideration, the compression ratio drops to 7.65:1, which sounds a heck of a lot more reasonable. I haven't made any allowance for the thickness of the headgasket, nor the tip of the sparkplug extending into the combustion chamber, but they won't have any significant effect, in fact one probably comes close to cancelling the other. This makes me a lot more comfortable.---At least, now when I pull up to the gas pumps with my engine, I won't have to select "Hi-Test" gas!!!


----------



## Gurus

Looks really nice and thanks for sharing.


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## Brian Rupnow

Ever since I finished the "Rupnow Engine", it has ran well, but been prone to flooding on first start up. Flooding so badly that it won't clear itself, and requires that the sparkplug be removed and dried off, then reinstalled. I have fiddled and adjusted the timing and the carburetor (which are really the only two adjustments available) until I have decided that the answer to this problem lies elsewhere. The only thing that comes to mind, is that when I designed the cylinder head, due to space constraints, I put a fairly deep pocket in the cylinder head, and installed the sparkplug so that the end of the plug protrudes into the pocket. Now this was fine, as you see in the first picture. What I kind of forgot as I designed this pocket, is that the cylinder will actually cover almost half of it, as seen in the second picture. (I machined up a ring to represent the i.d. and o.d. of the cylinder, to show what I am talking about.)--Today I am going to machine away as much material as is possible from the cylinder head, to try and "unshroud" the end of the sparkplug, in hopes that this will lead to better initial combustion, and get away from the flooding situation. For anyone who is currently building this engine, I don't recommend that you make this change. Let me make the change first on my engine, and see if it improves the situation. If it does, I will post a drawing of how I did the modification to the cylinder head. If it doesn't---well---Perhaps I will take a second look at the gas tank I am using.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

So here we are with the modification made to the head. I used a 1/4" dia. endmill, offset .045" from the vertical centerline of the cyl head and plunge cut to the bottom of the sparkplug pocket. Then I moved over to center and plunge cut again, then .045" to the other side of center and plunge cut again. The cyl. head was mounted at an angle of 12* off horizontal. I tried to leave about .030" of material between the edge of the valve cages and the new hole being plunge cut. Then I used a 3/16" endmill for a final plunge cut on center, to get down a bit farther between the valve cages and give the triangular shape you see. The internal edges of the newly plunged holes were then blended with a Dremel tool and a small stone. It actually opens things up quite a bit. Of course, I won't know until reassembly if this makes any difference to my engine flooding problem or not.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I am VERY pleased to say that the unshrouding of the sparkplug as outlined in the previous posts seems to have made a remarkable difference!!! The engine no longer floods when trying to start it, and the engine runs a lot more evenly and consistently now. I also advanced the spark considerably more than I ever thought I would have to. This is GOOD!!! One more step in Brian's education as regards small i.c. engines. Chuck Fellows--You were right.---What can I say!! So---Anybody out there who is building or considering building this engine, pay heed.---This is a pretty important modification.  I am anxious to put this engine in its new "Transportation and Display" case, and take it around to many of the places that have asked me to bring one of my i.c. engines around and demonstrate it running for them, and I really hate being humiliated when one of my creations refuses to perform for me.---Brian


 

View attachment CYLINDER HEADWITH MODIFIED SPARKPLUG CAVITY.PDF


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## Swifty

Hi Brian, how much advance have you given the spark?

Paul.


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## wagnmkr

Well Done Brian!  Nothing better than thinking through an idea and actually have it work!

Do you think this modification would help the engine run better on the original ignition system?

I downloaded and printed out the plans today and I am thinking of starting an air cooled version when I get back from my vacation in England. 

Cheers,

Tom


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This modification will make the engine run better on any version, air cooled, water cooled, points ignition or electronic ignition. A quick and dirty measurement shows about 20 degrees of advance. Wagonmkr--It would be great if you decide to build the engine. We seem to have lost Smithers, out of Tasmania.---He hasn't posted anything since the 20th of July.--Brian


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## Smithers

Hi Brian,

Bit of time off to deal with work and family commitments, back now. Time to read your posts to see how you and everyone else is going.

Andrew


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## Smithers

Hi again Brian,

Just looked at your last video, amazing job, sounds really sweet, and looks amazing with the governor working, spurred me on to make up for lost time.

Andrew


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## Brian Rupnow

As I said in the other thread, Glad to have you back Smithers. I thought we had lost you.---Brian


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## Lawijt

Hi Brian;

I just looked the movie & see that brown water you was talking about.
I got the same problem with my Little Wonder engine. But now I use coolant for cars & don't have that problem anymore. Is is slightly greasy that product.
You can try it if you want.

Barry


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Lawijt said:


> Hi Brian;
> 
> I just looked the movie & see that brown water you was talking about.
> I got the same problem with my Little Wonder engine. But now I use coolant for cars & don't have that problem anymore. Is is slightly greasy that product.
> You can try it if you want.
> 
> Barry


 See post #481


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## Lawijt

Yes Brian , I read that post. I read in fact you topic very much. Maybe I will try this engine also. But with one hand it is impossible to do machining.
But the coolant for cars provide rusting the cilinder. That is why i replied.

Barry


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## Brian Rupnow

Today we are going to build a muffler. Why?--Just because we can, for one reason. A second good reason is that I now have two or three shirts with circles of sooty oil residue just to the left of my belly button, where the exhaust points directly at me when I am playing with the engine. Mrs. Rupnow is not amused!! Why do all of the holes exit in one 120 degree segment of the circle?--Because that way you can position them so they are all pointed down away from your face. And yes, I did a calculation, and the cross sectional area of the 8 holes is equal to the cross sectional area of the exhaust pipe which the muffler screws onto.--Speaking of that exhaust pipe---the detail drawing only shows a thread on one end, where it screws into the cylinder head. If you do make this muffler, you will have to thread the other end as well.----Brian


 

View attachment MUFFLER.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Lawijt said:


> Yes Brian , I read that post. I read in fact you topic very much. Maybe I will try this engine also. But with one hand it is impossible to do machining.
> But the coolant for cars provide rusting the cilinder. That is why i replied.
> 
> Barry


Okay Barry--thanks for the information. I didn't know you only had one hand.


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## Swifty

Hi Brian, I recall that Barry had a shoulder operation, that's what makes him one handed at the moment.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow

Damn!!! Right after I posted the drawing of the muffler, I was in my shop machining it, when I took a hugely horrible pain in my lower back and side. I shut the lathe off, staggered upstairs, and spent the rest of the day taking Tylenol and laying on a heating pad. I got through the night, but by 10:00 this morning I caved and got my wife to drive me to emergency at the local hospital. I spent the day in the hospital, being shuffled from one room to the next. At 1:00 they gave me a shot of morphine. At 3:00 they gave me a cat scan. At 4:00 they told me I had passed a kidney stone, gave me a prescription for pain killers, and sent me home.--Not something I would want to repeat!!!


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## wagnmkr

Brian, sorry to hear of your pain. Been there ... done that, and I too would not want to do it again.

Glad to hear you are on the mend.

Cheers,

Tom


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## canadianhorsepower

Brian---- glad to see your ok. I had that also but it got stuck:wall::wall:
Maybe I didn't have as much pain ,they put me asleep to remove it.

Good news my shop is back to me again, and ill be laying parts soon
take care


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## Swifty

Glad to hear that your on the mend Brian, as you have indicated, I believe that the pain is very bad with kidney stones.

Paul.


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## Goldflash

My Sympathies, Had Kidney Stones while on a business trip to Pakistan. Felt like my Testicles were being crushed  in a vice while someone has hitting me in the kidneys with a 4 lb hammer. Went to Local 3rd world A&E and got dosed up with morphine after managing to find a clean Syringe and Needle. Got loaded up on coffee to make the kidneys work and passed the stones later in the day to my great relief.


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## Brian Rupnow

Thank you, guys. Luc--I'm glad you will soon be on the project again.--Brian


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## Path

So sorry to hear that, but glad you got through it and wasn't something more serious. Sounds very scary.

Haven't been there ... never done that, and I would not want to do it. 

Have quick recovery.


Pat H


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## Lawijt

I hope you recover fast. Those stone hurt I heard.

Barry


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## Cogsy

You have my sympathies as well. I've heard they're bad but I've never had them, don't want to think about it even...


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## AussieJimG

Sorry to hear of your kidney stone but I am please that it is all over.

Speedy recovery.

Jim


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## gus

Hi Brian,

Speedy recovery. Take care. 

Gus Teng


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This is the muffler that I had partly made when the Pain from Hell hit me last Sunday. I'm still sore, but able to hobble around now--though it still feels like my right testicle may drop off at any moment!!! Does the muffler really muffle?--Well, that's kind of debatable--I think it muffles a little bit. However, more importantly, it directs the oil laden exhaust down towards the base, not onto my shirt or into my face.


----------



## Swifty

I'm suffering the same problem with shirts as you had Brian, I always have to stand to one side to miss anything that comes about of the exhaust. I can see from the picture how much you have advanced the timing, is your aluminium disk that holds the magnet permanently keyed in ?, if not you could just rotate the disk the same amount and bring the Hall sensor holder back to its original position. I realise that having the sensor holder pivoting allows you to change the timing whilst the engine is running.

Paul.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Swifty--You are correct--I can rotate the disc with the magnet--its only positioned by a set screw.---I am still feeling crummy from the weekends adventures, so not much time is being spent playing with little engines.-Brian


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## gus

Brian Rupnow said:


> Luc--You most certainly can. I am more comfortable with the old style points ignition, but that's just me. If you are comfortable with electronic ignition, then by all means go for it.---Brian




Hi Brian,

"70'' young Gus will stay with the Jurassic Ignition for the "Rupnow" Hit & Miss
Engine. Fear of the unknown or just plain stubborn.:hDe:

Cutting the timing gear blanks in an hour's time after clearing mail.


----------



## Swifty

Gus, I thought that you already had the CDI module, or did you use it on your last engine?
I had very little experience with either ignition types, but now I have used the CDI I'm hooked, it's very easy to set up.

Paul.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Gus--Either system will work equally well on the engine.--Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I may have lied!!! I said that the muffler didn't really muffle. Standing up close to the engine, its hard to detect any real difference from the sound it made without the muffler. However, this morning the engine is on an "endurance" run out in the main garage with a full reservoir of water and a full tank of gas, and it does sound quite different from a distance.--(I am setting in my office, one wall away from where the engine is running.) The engine makes a much deeper "Thump" noise when it fires with the muffler on than it did without the muffler.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This morning I got up and decided it was time for the Rupnow Engine to start earning its keep!!!----So-----I put the lazy bugger to work!! I had built the steel ball elevator a few years ago, and I realized that the only video I had of it working was a very poorly focused one, taken with my old digital camera just before it died. I had to build a wooden spacer block to get my cone clutch up high enough to clear the edge of the motor base with the o-ring drive belt, and then put a second o-ring drive belt from the clutch to the ball elevator. I started the engine with the clutch disengaged (sorry--didn't get a picture of that) and once it was warmed up for a couple of minutes I engaged the clutch and the ball elevator started doing its thing. Of course, not knowing whether this was all going to work or not, I wasn't prepared to do any video making. I then had to run into my storage cabinet, hunt down my floodlight, hunt down my camera tripod,  find my digital camera, and set it all up to take this video. In all the excitement, I forgot to show how the clutch engages and disengages, but take my word for it, it really works slick. I will post the link to photobucket and to Youtube, because apparently some folks have trouble viewing photobucket videos.---Brian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlLt1XP9nCc&feature=youtu.be


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## wagnmkr

Well Done Brian!! Watching that video almost makes me want to cancel my holiday to England and get down to work! I did say almost since I would be deeply in this mode :fan: if I cancelled now

Cheers,

Tom


----------



## ShopShoe

Gotta say well done Brian. I've been following along as all the pieces were designed and built and wondered when we'd get to see an engine, the clutch, and one of your "work" devices all running together. 

If my grandsons saw that live they would be asking me how soon I would be building one of those.

Thanks for the ride.

--ShopShoe


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I have had severe lower back pain all week, and have had both a cat scan and an X-ray of my abdomen and lower back. Doctor called me up 2 days ago and sounding fairly ominous, told me there was something unusual on my X-ray, and I better come into his office!!!--Now this is news that you just don't want to hear when you are 67 years old!!! (or at any other age). After 2 days more of pain (compounded with worry), I went to see the Doc yesterday. He had good news/bad news. The good news is, that its just plain old down and dirty arthritis with maybe a pinched nerve. The bad new is---I'M A FREAK!!! Where most people have 5 bones in their lower back, I have SIX!!! Doc told me it was fairly unusual, but he had seen it before. Its not freaky enough that I can run off and join Barnum and Bailey and make some extra money on the weekends. So now I'm off to the physiotherapist for prodding/punching/ultrasound. and maybe acupuncture. Of course, when you think 0f all the truly horrible things it could have been, I guess a go-round with the physiotherapist isn't that bad. I hope she's an eighteen year old blond----.


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## wagnmkr

Brian, I truly hope the physio works and that you have no lasting problem. Bad backs are no fun at all.

Methinks your vision of the physiotherapist may differ when you get there. The last one I had could hold parts to be milled ... with her hands!

Cheers,

Tom


----------



## Cogsy

Hope all goes well Brian. 

Extra bones in your lower back huh? Just a theory, but does your butt wag a bit when you're happy? Just joking mate, have fun at the physio.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Cogsy---I like that!!! Its not my butt that wags when I'm happy----


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Cogsy said:


> Hope all goes well Brian.
> 
> Extra bones in your lower back huh? Just a theory, but does your butt wag a bit when you're happy? Just joking mate, have fun at the physio.


 


cogsy--------------- dog do have a bone in ther......
take Brian I have pictures coming


----------



## Davewild

Good luck at the Physio Brian and hope it not to painful.

Dave


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I have a counter on the site where I store my files that counts how many times an article or set of plans have been downloaded. I checked this morning, and the plans for the Rupnow Engine have been downloaded 101 times since I put the links on this forum and a second forum. I wonder how many will actually get built?


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## Cogsy

At a guess, I'd say loads of them, and for many years to come. It's a great design and from what I've seen, a great runner. Soon I'll know first hand.


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## Brian Rupnow

Al--I'm looking foreword to it. I can't remember--do you plan on running the governor on it? As I have told others, the carb which I give details for depends on the action of the governor to control the engine speed. If you don't have the governor on it when you start it up, the engine will race out of control and possibly self destruct. I can send you plans for a throttlable carb if you are not building the governors, but its a lot more complex than the carb I posted.---Brian


----------



## Cogsy

Thanks for the offer Brian, but I'm already somewhat concerned about building the carb, let alone a more complex one. Seriously though, I will build the governor. There's just something about hitting and missing that I love. I do plan on finishing the engine and running it before I build the governor though. Any tips on keeping it from over revving? I'm thinking I should be able to retard the ignition timing enough to keep it slowed down if necessary.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Cogsy--I don't have any tips, other than if you try to start it, be ready to pull the sparkplug wire off damn quick if it runs away on you. Start with the needle valve unscrewed one full turn. You may be able to set the carb so it runs rich enough to slow it down, or you might be able to mess with the timing to slow it down. When Swifty first started his without the governor it ran away on him and blew up the bearing on the end of the valve lifter mechanism before he could get it shut down..


----------



## gus

Brian Rupnow said:


> Cogsy--I don't have any tips, other than if you try to start it, be ready to pull the sparkplug wire off damn quick if it runs away on you. Start with the needle valve unscrewed one full turn. You may be able to set the carb so it runs rich enough to slow it down, or you might be able to mess with the timing to slow it down. When Swifty first started his without the governor it ran away on him and blew up the bearing on the end of the valve lifter mechanism before he could get it shut down..




Hi Cogsy,
No worries. Hopefully will get my H&M started and running by this Friday.Now mopping up odds and ends. Viton Pistons still not arrived.Will put in C.I.Rings today and run in with cordless drill.
 My Webster engine has got a habit of quitting every time I try to get smart tuning carb. My carb tuning is still lousy.:hDe:

Would be great to see a mini runaway engine. Worked on medium size engines and did not experience runaway engines. But my Senior Diesel Repairman did witness one. It was horrifying and nothing done could stop engine which over speed and ruptured con-rods blew holes in the crankcase and smoke every way in the plant room.


----------



## Swifty

Gus, I witnessed a runaway engine on a diesel four wheel drive, no one had any idea how to stop it, smoke was billowing out the exhaust as the engine ran as fast as it could. Someone eventually took off their tee shirt and blocked off the air inlet which slowed it enough to stall it. Not a very happy owner.

Paul.


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## AussieJimG

THIS is an engine blowup!!!   http://www.i-club.com/forums/bay-area-15/you-just-think-youve-seen-engine-blow-up-before-238978/


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## Swifty

Aussiejim, no doubt that driver was looking for another job straight after that happened. I did manage to break a con rod at the small end in an old diesel patrol that I had, beat the daylights out of the piston and cracked the block.

Paul.


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## Cogsy

AussieJimG said:


> THIS is an engine blowup!!! http://www.i-club.com/forums/bay-area-15/you-just-think-youve-seen-engine-blow-up-before-238978/


 
I'll admit that engine is in need of some maintenance...but this is an engine blow up...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBF6iZfguF0[/ame]


----------



## AussieJimG

Good one Cogsy.

Jim


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## Brian Rupnow

Its cool out in my main garage today, about 16 Celcius---about 62F. I've got a couple of "for pay" engineering jobs on the go right now so I'm working in my office, one wall away from the main garage. I started the "Rupnow Engine" at about 3:30, let it warm up for about 5 minutes, then engaged the clutch and started the ball elevator running. I've been setting in here on the computer working away, but I can hear the engine put--put--whirrrr, put-put--whirrr running out in the garage. I stepped out to have a look at 5:00 and there was a column of steam raising from the water reservoir. It made me laugh, because I can remember back in the 1950's helping  my uncle Jimmy saw slabwood on his buzz saw in the wintertime, and seeing the same column of steam raising from the reservoir on his 3 horsepower hit and miss engine.


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## Brian Rupnow

Put it down to encroaching age, or maybe just plain "worry wartism", but every time that I've been out in the main garage playing with the 'Rupnow Engine" I get upstairs afterwards, and start to wonder--"Did I turn that on/off switch off or not???"  After making one too many "just before bed" trips downstairs to check and make sure the ignition switch was off I called up Roy Sholl and ordered his "ignition light". Wow!!! What a bright little sucker---and it comes with leads that plug into the existing wiring between the switch and the CDI module. It was simply a matter of drilling a .190" hole thru the base, and adding a little "seal all" around the light. I'm impressed!!! And that SHOULD help me remember that yes, the switch was really off when I quit playing!!!


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## fpravenscroft

hello Brian 
           i am going to the Toronto from England  for Christmas and i wonder if you or anyone else could tell me where i might buy the bevel gears (martin 2424) used in your engine as i am accumulating the parts to make one
keep up the good work 
regards
peter


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## Brian Rupnow

I bought the parts through McMaster-Carr in the usa. I'm sure I give the specs and part numbers in my build thread. See post #14 at the beginning of this thread for part numbers and identity..---Brian


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## wagnmkr

Brian, can you tell me if anyone in our area sells concentrated layout dye that you can mix with water or do I need to get a can of the spray stuff?

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow

I buy mine at Varty's tool supply in Barrie. 705-726-0091--They sell it in half pint size and there is a little brush attached to the screw on lid. It comes in deep wine red, or a medium blue. It is a liquid, and it drys fast, lasts forever, washes off with laquer thinners. I also buy my cast iron in Barrie at Barrie Welding 705-726-1444. They have cast iron in round bars and will lop off a few inches or whatever you need.--Prices are reasonable.


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## wagnmkr

Thanks Brian. I found that the local Acklands Grainger sells the stuff too. I will have to come up to Barrie to get some cast iron though as no one down here has it that I have found so far.

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow

wagnmkr said:


> Thanks Brian. I found that the local Acklands Grainger sells the stuff too. I will have to come up to Barrie to get some cast iron though as no one down here has it that I have found so far.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom


If you come up, call ahead--my number is on my web page. I'll bring you to my house for a demo run of the Rupnow Engine.


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## wagnmkr

Will Do Brian.

Another question I have been meaning to ask ... In that super hobby shop in Barrie where you got the gears for your pump engine... they had bevel gears for the rear ends of large, radio controlled cars ... they were steel and looked to be about the right size for the engine. Did you ever look at them for that use?

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow

I never looked at the hobby shop, but what I did was to buy a right angle drill attachment at Canadian Tire. they are quite inexpensive, less than $30 and have a perfect set of right angle bevel gears in them---and you get a free chuck out of the deal.


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## wagnmkr

I will have a look today. I need a small chuck.

Cheers,

Tom


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## Brian Rupnow

Let me correct myself here. I DID take a look at the gears in my right angle drill adapter, and I THOUGHT about using them. However, I thought that at some point down the road I would probably need the right angle drill adapter to do what it was purchased for, so I ordered my bevel gears from McMaster.


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## wagnmkr

Thanks Brian. I'll have a look.

Cheers,

Tom


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## krankie frankie

Crankshaft bearing caps are made push rod guide is made, stock is on order for flywheels and side plates.

frankie


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## Brian Rupnow

Frankie--Please start a post showing us the development of your "Rupnow engine". We are very interested, and we love to see pictures. Right now there are 3 running engines in the world, mine in Canada, Gus' in Singapore and Swifty in Melbourne, Australia. We have recently picked up another new build, Wagonmaker in Lindsay, Ontario. Cogsy from Australia will probably have the next running engine. Luc from Quebec seems to have got lost in a snowstorm.--Where are you located in the world, Frankie?


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## krankie frankie

The material for the base an sides showed up so the project is under way again. One of these days I will put the squeeze on my wife to take and post some pictures. My location is in a northern suburb of Minneapolis Minn.

frankie


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## krankie frankie

I forgot to mention that I always enjoyed your stuff so I will be making your ball machine when this engine gets done, which will not be any time soon given the rate that I proceed on these things. So keep on keeping on.

frankie


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## Path

Brian:

Have a few questions on your valve/valve cage.

Referring to your PDF for the cage dated 13/08/2013:

The inside cut (30 degrees) camfer. Does that matter or can I just drill the .25 at a depth of .282 (as shown) leaving it 42 degrees?

I noticed that the 90* is noted as being important and yet the valve PDF (dated 13/08/2013) says 92*. That seems like it would require a lot more lapping for a good seal ... less lapping if also at 90*.


Thanks,

Pat H.


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## Brian Rupnow

Pat--just drill to a depth of .282 with the 1/4" drill. I didn't put any dimension on what you are calling the angle 30 degrees. That is because the angle shown indicates that the hole is put in there with a drill, not an endmill so there will be some kind of angle there, instead of just a flat bottom. The reason for the two different angles (90 and 92 degrees) is that I want the valve and cage to have a line contact, not two flats running together. It is MUCH easier to get the valve to seal on a line contact, with minimal lapping rather than  a flat on flat configuration. You have to be able to get the valves to seal properly to get the engine to start. With a steel valve and a brass or bronze cage, the line contact will soon become a flat contact after the engine has been started and ran for 20 minutes or so.


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## Path

Thanks Brian ... now back to making chips.


Pat H.


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## canadianhorsepower

> Luc from Quebec seems to have got lost in a snowstorm


 
I'M NOT LOST IN A SNOWSTORM
I'M GOING THRUE CHEMIO TREATMENT AGAIN
THATNKS FOR BEING SO SARCASTIC FOR NO REASON


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## Brian Rupnow

Luc--Sorry that you are ill. You and I seem to rub each other the wrong way, and I apologize for that. I wasn't poking at you because of your illness. Cancer is a truly horrible thing, I lost my father to it, and I know how dreadful you feel going through Chemotherapy. You have my best wishes for remission. I'm not really a religious sort of guy, but I will pray for you tonight.----Brian


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## Swifty

Luc, here's hoping that you can conquer you health problems. I always think that keeping a positive attitude helps a lot in overcoming things like this, will be thinking of you.

Paul.


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## Brian Rupnow

So---lets take stock. Swifty's engine and my engine are completely finished. Gus's engine is very close to being finished. Cogsy is very close with his engine, but has stalled out to undergo some massive housecleaning and rearranging in his workspace. Luc is not feeling well, and I've lost track of his progress for the moment. My two guys in the U.K. have bowed out, and I don't expect them to do any more on their engines. We have a third Canadian, Tom from Lindsay, Ontario just getting his teeth into a build, and two Americans, Pat Hutcheson from California (who I can't convince to post anything about his build), and KrankieFrankie, who is (I think) from Minnesota. If anybody else out there is building a "Rupnow engine', please let us know.--Brian


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## gus

Hi Luc,
You will be in my daily prayers for speedy recovery. A fishing mate came back fishing with me after 12 month treatment and  cured of prostrate cancer.Sure glad to have him back and watching him pull up fish after another every Saturday was a blessing for us.


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## canadianhorsepower

Thanks GUS I'm doing the best I can
Hope it's enough (y)


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## Path

Brian,

Have another question for you or for that matter anyone who has made these parts.

I was studying the Rocker Arm Mounting Bracket, the Rocker Arm and the Exhaust Push Rod as an assembly when I noticed that the Push Rod center line does not match up center of the detente  (.140dia x .031 deep) hole in the Rocker Arm. It's about .032" off. I'm thing about relocating the Push Rod Guide notch about .032" higher thus raising the Push Rod. This change will also place the Push Rod center line in line with the Cam Gear lobe when at 9 o'clock position.

Has anyone noticed this in their assembly? Or maybe it doesn't matter . I'm modeling in SW and there it looks huge! 

Thanks,

Pat H.


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## Brian Rupnow

Pat--The way I designed that was so that the centerline of the push rod would be on the center of the cam gear, and on the centerline of the détente in the rocker arm when the rocker arm was half way between its two extremes of position. For 1/32" difference, I doubt very much that you will see any difference in how the engine runs.


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## Brian Rupnow

So Guys--What's happening? Firstly, Gus!!---Did you get the hit and miss portion of your engine hooked up and operating. Cogsy--I know you were having a run of evil luck getting your engines valves to seal properly.--Did you get ahead of that? Pat Hutcheson--How is your build progressing. I hope its going well, and Jeez, we would really like to see a picture. Luc, I know you will be back to work on your engine when you are feeling better. Chemo really sucks, Big Time. Get better soon. Krankie Franky--Are you still working on the engine or did you give it up?  I just couldn't keep my interest level up high enough on the Marble Machine, so as you all know, I have jumped headfirst into the Opposed Piston engine. Have a great New Years and keep us posted about what's happening with your engines. My aim was to have ten of them up and running around the world, but we seem to be stuck at three!!!


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## Path

Brian,

Thanks for the follow up.

For the last 6 weeks I've been very busy with several customers that need parts right away. So I have working night and day and weekends (Xmas also) just to get them done. 

I think the rush is over for now so I can get back to some real fun. That's playing with your H&M 

I believe I left off honing the cylinder ... guess it will take a few hours just get back into it.

Pictures ... yes I really need to do that. It's just that keeping up a thread is hard ... and hit and miss thing. 

Okay ... tell you what ... I will start a post by Monday January 13, 2014 9:00 am my time.

Oh boy now what have I got myself into ??:hDe:


Pat H


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay Pat--You are accounted for. Now I have to hear from the rest of the guys!!---Brian


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## krankie frankie

Brian
Base is done sides are done fly wheels are done cylinder head is done governor mount will be done tomorrow the little shaft with the 5 holes is done. It would be safe to say that I have done all the easy stuff so next comes the "fiddely bits. 

frankie


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## Brian Rupnow

Good stuff, Krankie Frankie--Where abouts in the world are you located?--Now I have to hear from Cogsy and Gus.


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## krankie frankie

I live in a northern suburb of Minneapolis Minnesota, and yes it does get cold here, not as cold as Canada but cold enough for me.

frankie


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## Brian Rupnow

That's good Frankie.--Have you ever ran into Lucas Davenport?? So with you and Pat H, that makes two Americans building my engine.


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## Brian Rupnow

Path said:


> Brian,
> 
> Thanks for the follow up.
> 
> For the last 6 weeks I've been very busy with several customers that need parts right away. So I have working night and day and weekends (Xmas also) just to get them done.
> 
> I think the rush is over for now so I can get back to some real fun. That's playing with your H&M
> 
> I believe I left off honing the cylinder ... guess it will take a few hours just get back into it.
> 
> Pictures ... yes I really need to do that. It's just that keeping up a thread is hard ... and hit and miss thing.
> 
> Okay ... tell you what ... I will start a post by Monday January 13, 2014 9:00 am my time.
> 
> Oh boy now what have I got myself into ??:hDe:
> 
> 
> Pat H


 
 Wellllllll--it's Monday----


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## krankie frankie

I have not met Lucas Davenport, however my wife speaks of him sometimes.

frankie


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## Brian Rupnow

Frankie--Lucas is one of my favourite fictional policemen, living and working in the Minneapolis area. I hope your engine build is going well.---Brian


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