# SX3 Conversion



## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

Here's the build Thread for the SX3 CNC Conversion.

I've decided to use the Fignoggle Plans for this conversion.

http://www.fignoggle.com/plans/x3cncplans.htm







I will start with building the mounting brackets and such. This will give me time to do some more research and acquire the other components. What I like about the plans, is that it will allow me to go at my own pace, and will still allow me to use my mill in between steps. The option of using the mill manually in the end is also a deciding factor over the Fusion Kit.

For now I'm undecided, but am thinking of just using the stock lead screws for all 3 axis. This will allow me to get the mill up and running faster, and cheaper. As the ball screws can be added later. I think? 

Matt


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 24, 2010)

You are correct. You can always put the ball screws in later. Buy the cheap McMaster Carr screws and nuts. Take all the balls out of the nut and buy some good quality .125 balls (7 bucks a hundred) from a bearing supply like VXB or another source and reload the nut. I had .0005 backlash after the reload.


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## cobra428 (Feb 24, 2010)

1Hand,
I'm curios if you have an idea as to the total cost....servos, controller...etc. I have a 3 axis DRO with SPC outputs and spare P3 computer.

General "ballpark" idea would be fine

Tony


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## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

Tony,

Not a clue yet. Steve would be able to give ya a closer figure than me. I think It really depends on how much of the work you want to do, And the quality of componets you use. I've just put a pencil to this so far:

Aluminum for brackets and motor mounts   $140
Pulleys, belts, zero backlash coupling     $100

                         Total  $240

I'll try to keep a running total through out the build. 

Matt


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## cobra428 (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks Matt,
I already have ACAD to draw the parts with and I could network my 2 computers. I'm thinking that the DRO's I have will be abled to get hook in and save me a little $$.

The plans site only has prices for certain things, well at least as far as I got look.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42827

I don't think they make one for my mill
I might have to do my own engineering

Tony


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## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

I have a DRO set up on my mill. What am I missing? Can I use that some how in this CNC conversion? I really don't know much about any of this. I just trying to pick it up as I go. Kinda of a dare devil I guess. :

Matt

How do you plan on doing the Z axis, without a dovetail column?


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## cobra428 (Feb 24, 2010)

Matt,
My DRO has a "phone" jack that comes from the encoders and another to output it's location (pretty sure about that, I'll have to double check tonight)

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3568

As far as the round colunm. I would hook it to the spindle (6" of motion)

Tony


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## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

I look on the back of my display and didn't see any other hook up's other than the 3 glass scale connections.


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## cobra428 (Feb 24, 2010)

Matt
Your right no other connector. I haven't seen the back of my DRO in a long time. I do come in contact on a daily basis with all kinds of "stuff". I was probably thinking of something else

 ???

Tony


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## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

First Question:

I need to pick out what steppers I'm going to use. So I can make the mounts.

Would this one be good for my SX3?? ???

Nema 34 High Torque stepper motor
1200 oz-in 1/2" shaft with flat, 118mm
It spouse to be water and dust proof ???


Here's a spec sheet 
http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H2120-60-4A-IP65.pdf

Thanks Matt


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 24, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Would this one be good for my SX3?? ???
> Nema 34 High Torque stepper motor
> 1200 oz-in 1/2" shaft with flat, 118mm




How about some Nema 23's at about 300 Oz. Get some that are around 1-3 volt motors. Supply the controller with 24 volt DC. 300Oz motors will toss that machine around like you won't believe.

My 2 pennies

Steve


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 24, 2010)

I used 300 Oz motors for my X-2 You may want to take a look at my x-2 conversion thread. I used a IIRC 36 v keiling power supply with a Gecko 540. Mach 3 for software.
Tin


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## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

I was just going off what the plans said. 34's at around 1000 oz-in.

Steve could you recommend some part numbers from keling on what I should be using?

The Z axis is pretty hefty going up, just want to make sure I got enough torque. And in case like you said about a bigger mill down the road, the possibility of switching what I have over.


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 24, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> I was just going off what the plans said. 34's at around 1000 oz-in.
> the possibility of switching what I have over.



It's hard to predict the future. 1200-1500 will move a bridgport around very good with belt drive. If I were doing a Bridgeport, I would spend the money on the Gecko's.

Don't know what to tell you other than this.

X3 300 Oz with 24 volt
Bridgeport 1200Oz with Gecko 210's and 60-80 volt

We are getting into 2 different animals. Starting to cross the line from hobby machine to very capable production machine. This one has to be your call because the money is going to jump about 5X


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## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm for cheap and whats going to work.

I'm trying to pick up the terminology as I go here, so bare with me.

I just don't understand why the guy that made these plans, would want you to use 1000oz steppers when you can easily get by with 300oz. The plans are geared for 34's. So I would have to reconfigure the mounts for 23's I guess. Do you have to make a special coupler then from 1/4" to 1/2"?


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 24, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> I just don't understand why the guy that made these plans, would want you to use 1000oz steppers when you can easily get by with 300oz. The plans are geared for 34's. So I would have to reconfigure the mounts for 23's I guess. Do you have to make a special coupler then from 1/4" to 1/2"?



If it is geared for 34's, then get 34's. They range from 400-1200Oz.

Jimmy's plans called for 156Oz on the table. We bumped it to 300Oz 

Is the Z axis belt driven or direct drive. Jimmy's is belt driven at 2.5:1. If you are direct drive or geared 1:1 you might need to go with the 906Oz.


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## 1hand (Feb 24, 2010)

Its belt driven with a 30t and 15t. So what ever that ratio is?


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 24, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Its belt driven with a 30t and 15t. So what ever that ratio is?



So at 2:1 you would be applying 2000oz to the screw. That is alot of twist. 

If you are worried Put a 906 on the Z and 400's on X and Y


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## 1hand (Feb 25, 2010)

With a bunch of Google searches, I've came up with a combonation that seems to be working well for the SX3's.

(2) Nema 23 381oz.  "for X & Y"  $100
(1) Nema 34 906oz.  "for Z"     $100
   G540 Geckodrive           $290
   48v/7.3a power supply       $60



                  Total $560


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## 1hand (Feb 25, 2010)

I started the Z axis motor plate today.











2 hours later:









All went pretty well. The DRO worked great for marking out everything, as the plans had all dimensions laid out from two sides. Took most of the day, but then again, I'm no speed demon. Probably could go and purchase this part for $20, but I made it myself, and that's pretty cool too.

Cheers Matt


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 25, 2010)

Looks great. Your in up to your a$$ now!!


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## mnewsholme (Feb 27, 2010)

Im working from basically the same set of plans but for an x3. just wait till you see the hunk of aluminium you need for the x axis motor mount ;D

matt


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## 1hand (Feb 27, 2010)

mnewsholme  said:
			
		

> Im working from basically the same set of plans but for an x3. just wait till you see the hunk of aluminium you need for the x axis motor mount ;D
> 
> matt


Matt;

What are you going to use for X and Y axis steppers? 23's or 34's?

Matt


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## 1hand (Feb 27, 2010)

Steve I've been looking at Mcmaster Carr for the ball screws. Could you give me the part numbers I need? Is it a 5/8 screw? Do I need the round nuts or the square? Doesn't look like the round ones come in 5/8". I thought that beings I'll have everything apart I would put them in right away. By going the way you said, I would be able to afford them right away. Verses the $400 kit version I would have to wait.

Thanks Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 27, 2010)

you may want to look here

http://www.roton.com/Mating_Components.aspx?family=7059321

the McMaster Car # for the ball screw is 5966k26 for the ball screw and 5966K16 for the ball nut.
Tin


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## 1hand (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks Tin;

I need a bit of explanation here. Do I then make a mounting block with the 15/16-16 thread in one end, and then screw that square style ball nut into the mounting block? If so, what holds the ball nut from unthreading when the ball screw is going in that direction? Set screws in from the side?

Thanks Matt


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## 1hand (Feb 28, 2010)

1 other question I have if someone would like to chime in. I only have a lap top, and was wondering what sort of computer I need for the CNC to run Mach, CAM, and a Gecko drive? I thought I read some where that a laptop won't work. I know little to none about computers also, so I'll like to get a plug and play unit as much as possible. So where do I go and What do I get?

Matt


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 28, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Thanks Tin;
> 
> I need a bit of explanation here. Do I then make a mounting block with the 15/16-16 thread in one end, and then screw that square style ball nut into the mounting block? If so, what holds the ball nut from unthreading when the ball screw is going in that direction? Set screws in from the side?
> 
> Thanks Matt



I just tightened the nut well and having the recirc tube on top is best. There wont be much twisting force on the nut. Most of the force will be along the axis as thrust. 
There will be some form of block to screw the nut into. Design so the block wont flex when the screw pulls and pushes on it. I also tried to tuck the nut in so travel would be maximized.


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 28, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> I only have a lap top, and was wondering what sort of computer I need for the CNC to run Mach, CAM, and a Gecko drive? I thought I read some where that a laptop won't work. I know little to none about computers also



I have an old 1.8 gig CPU and XP.

This is right off the mach site.

Mach3 Minimum Requirements:
&#9702;32-bit version of Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7 Operating System
&#9702;1Ghz CPU
&#9702;512MB RAM
&#9702;Non-integrated Video Card with 32MB RAM
&#9702;Basic Computer Skills (ability to copy/rename files, browse directories, etc)
&#9702;Desktop PC (if using the Mach3 Parallel Port Driver - laptops are not supported because the power saving features of the chipsets disrupt the pulse stream, PCMCIA and USB parallel adaptors will *not* work.)


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## mnewsholme (Feb 28, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Matt;
> 
> What are you going to use for X and Y axis steppers? 23's or 34's?
> 
> Matt



im going to stick with nema 34's. 400oz for x and y and probably 8-900 oz for z. doing x and y first so I'll try temporarily fitting one of 400oz motors to z when i build it and seeing how much more power it needs to give a reasonable speed. not a massive price difference between 23's and 34's and I'd prefer to have some power in reserve

Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 28, 2010)

You can buy flanges for the ball nut but they are more than the ball nut. I made my own single point threading. some builders recommend buying the tap. there is a flat side on the ball nut for a set screw I used it. 
I made mounting nuts for my x and y but still have not purchased the ball screws for the mill. . I was going to buy enough for the mill and lathe but now I am doing the litte lathe I can save money I am not going to stuff balll screw into it. 
As far as the laptop Go to the mach 3 site you should be able to find out if your laptop will work. 
If it does go for it if yours will not work off the shelf you have a choice buy another computer or IMHO a better cheaper choice get a smooth stepper. it is an interface that plugs into a laptop USB port then plug the gecko into the smooth stepper. 
Also keep in mind there is a amperage limit (3.5 amps/phase)on the gecko drive make sure your beefy z axis motor does not exceed that limit it may be better to use pulleys and a smaller motor. 
Tin


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## 1hand (Feb 28, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Also keep in mind there is a amperage limit (3.5 amps/phase)on the gecko drive make sure your beefy z axis motor does not exceed that limit it may be better to use pulleys and a smaller motor.
> Tin



Maybe it would just be easier to use a different drive or drivers and stick with the 34's all the way around. A parallel port is a printing port right? So your basic $200 desk top computer would run this right?


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## 1hand (Feb 28, 2010)

Made up the Z axis side brackets today






















Matt


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## 1hand (Feb 28, 2010)

Steve;

I forgot to say thanks for modeling up the ball nut mounts for me. That will really help when I get to figuring that out. 

Thanks Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 2, 2010)

I've been doing some searching on limit switches and Homing switches, and have opened a whole other can of worms. Are they needed or can you use the soft limits in Mach 3 and still be safe?

Matt


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 2, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> I've been doing some searching on limit switches and Homing switches, and have opened a whole other can of worms. Are they needed or can you use the soft limits in Mach 3 and still be safe?
> 
> Matt



I don't use any type of limit. You are going to get 20 different trains of thought on this one but they can be more of a pain than anything.


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## 1hand (Mar 2, 2010)

So what your saying is, I don't "have" to have them to run the machine with Mach 3, and If I'm careful, I shouldn't need them. The soft stops create a bit of protection anyway? Right?


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 2, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> So what your saying is, I don't "have" to have them to run the machine with Mach 3, and If I'm careful, I shouldn't need them.



That is what i'm saying.


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## John S (Mar 2, 2010)

This is what we fit on the X3 and the SX3 on the X and Y, 312 oz in direct driving a 4mm pitch screw.

That square block contains two angular contact bearings and the oldham coupling.






This is the Z mount that bolts onto the existing bottom bearing block, which also has twin angular contacts fitted. the gas strut is thrown away as it's not needed.






Nothing sticks outside the rear cover when fitted.

John S.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 2, 2010)

> Maybe it would just be easier to use a different drive or drivers and stick with the 34's all the way around. A parallel port is a printing port right? So your basic $200 desk top computer would run this right?


 any now end new or decent used machine should do the job the requirements are fairly conservative by today's standards . Look at Mach 3 site for requirements. 

IMHO the easy way to go is the 540. there are other options you can get a breakout board and get individual gecko drive of whatever size you need. I went with the 540 because of ease and value there are cheaper options .
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 2, 2010)

John; thats a very clean and slick set-up!

Tin; I have decieded on the G540. Thanks for your help on that! Will need help when it comes to wiring the motors though I'm sure.,

Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 2, 2010)

if you notice John is using potting boxes AKA radio Shack project boxes $2.29 each to make his connectons. I anm planning on this approach for my current build. If you are not comfortable soldering there is a device called a DB-9 field termination connector that allows wires to be attached to a screw terminal. about $10 each.http://www.winfordeng.com/products/brksd9.php
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 2, 2010)

Tin;

I didn't notice the boxes right away. Thanks for pointing that out for me. I like that Idea, as I would like to convert the lathe later on also using the same driver and computer. I gave my 14yr old son a cheap radio shack soldering iron this weekend, and a toy computer that my 4yr old girl slammed in a closet door, which pinched the little mouse wire in two. Since I started talking about this CNC thing I've gotten his attention. He's really into computers and gaming. I figure It would be a way for him and I to do something together. So he Googled soldering and watch a few short video's and 2 hours later he had the 5 hair sized wires soldered together, heat shrunk, and ready to try out. Low and behold it worked. I am very proud of him for trying something new, and now being my wing man, going into this CNC venture.

Cheers Matt

PS thanks for the link


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## RonGinger (Mar 2, 2010)

On the question of limit switches, there is no need for them, Mach will run happily without them.

I have not put them on my Jet Knee mill, but I did put them on my router. Its really a matter of how clever you want to get.

The soft limits are only useful if you have the machine homed, which means having home switches. Without them Mach will assume HOME is wherever the table is when it boots up. That makes the soft limits a but useless. You can always make it a habit to move the table to some known location, then click the home button and Mach will then base soft limits on that location.

I dont see HOME switches very useful on a mill since every time I start a job I must reference to the work Im about to do. On a lathe I do think home switches are useful. Ive been testing my new lathe for the past week and one test left to do is a repeatability of the home switches.

My first bit of advice is to get the basic motion of the conversion working first, then add things like limits, spindle control, coolant control etc.


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## 1hand (Mar 3, 2010)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I have an old 1.8 gig CPU and XP.
> 
> This is right off the mach site.
> 
> ...



Would this work? or would I have to get some special video card?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-FAST-HP-2-8-G...ZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item35a789048d

Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 3, 2010)

probably need a video card but that should not be a big deal
Tin


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## vlmarshall (Mar 3, 2010)

You'll be spoiled by the G540 and not even know it! ;D When it comes time to power the lathe, buy a pair of G251's, which are the boards inside the G540, and you can use the same Mach settings for both machines' stepper drivers.


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## 1hand (Mar 3, 2010)

I told my wife that if I do these conversions myself, that for the same price of the kit, I could do both the mill and lathe with there own computer and drivers. I was just going to get 2 G540's, I know that I would only be using half of the driver for the lathe, but figure it would be easier than messing with break out boards and such.

Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 3, 2010)

Ah, wiring the breakout board is a breeze, especially after you've gotten experience from the 540.

I guess I should update my "lathe project" thread...


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 3, 2010)

You guys are making me feel gheto for using the same power supply and g540 for the lathe and the mill . I figure I only have 1 computer and 1 copy of mach 3 so why not.
Tin


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## vlmarshall (Mar 3, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> You guys are making me feel gheto for using the same power supply and g540 for the lathe and the mill .



hey, that's why it has DB-9 plugs! Nothing wrong with swapping it. No way I was going to use my Xylotex on a second machine, though. It's bad enough using it for ONE machine. ;D
Besides, it's tucked away in the mill enclosure.


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## 1hand (Mar 3, 2010)

I just don't know what to do ??? :wall: Swapping two wires would be the smart thing "way cheaper". 
When time comes to start ordering "and paying for" I'm sure things and ideas will change. I just like talking "typing" out loud, so to speak. Your opinions and comments are very appreciated, it sure helps me try to make decisions before forking over the bucks.

Matt :big:


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 4, 2010)

IH ther hobby licence allows the use of mach 3 as many machines as you want but one at a time. Having two complete set ups is a good thing . I personaly do not have and extra 500 buck to buy a second computer G540 and power supply. That may come later but not now . I am happy and ecited to have the mooors on my lathe and am looking forward to the wiring soon. yo may want to pend the "extra" money on quick change tooling instead . I drool over the tormach mill QC stuff but pricey. for the sake of easy switching of two axis you could get a couple of the old db9 abc boxes.
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 4, 2010)

Like this http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/DB9-Switches-2-Male-to-1-Female/SWL030A-MMF 

I was wondering about if something existed to allow switching between the two.

If these boxes would work I would be very happy with that setup. Not having to unhook the wires and reroute them each time would be a big plus in my book.

Save the bucks from the seperate drive and computer and put it in to a power drawbar. Boy that would be the cats meow for one handed tool changes. ;D

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 4, 2010)

Way better deal here

http://www.l-com.com/productfamily.aspx?id=929


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 4, 2010)

> Way better deal here
> 
> http://www.l-com.com/productfamily.aspx?id=929


I have purchased L-com products from Allied . Seems like nice stuff Looks like something else to add to my things to oder list. 
A couple of boxes and a few db 9 cables




> Save the bucks from the seperate drive and computer and put it in to a power drawbar. Boy that would be the cats meow for one handed tool changes. Grin


 bob Warfield built one from a harbor freight pheumatic wrench. IIRc it cost about $100 in materials. you do need a compressor to run it. 
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 4, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> and a few db 9 cables
> Tin



Can I use pre made cables?


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## vlmarshall (Mar 4, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Can I use pre made cables?


Sure thing. You'll have to add a resistor between two pins on each cable at the gecko end... or inside the switchbox... hmmm...

 :bow: Those switchboxes are a good idea, just use two, one each for X and Z, and leave Y hooked up to the mill full-time.


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## 1hand (Mar 4, 2010)

a 3.48 resistor right?

Why the X and Z? I thought it would be the X and Y, for they will be the same motors on both the mill and lathe, the Nema 23 381's, and the Z on the mill is going to be a 34.

I didn't know about the pre made db-9 cables, I thought I read some where about grounding one wire when using the Belden 8723 wire. ??? ???


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## 1hand (Mar 4, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> bob Warfield built one from a harbor freight pheumatic wrench. IIRc it cost about $100 in materials. you do need a compressor to run it.
> Tin



Thanks Tin, The plans are on the way. Was depressed when I found out that Tormach Power Drawbar didn't work with the SX3. This is nice and a fraction the cost. Better yet just bought the same air wrench from HB 2 weeks ago. 

Thanks Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 4, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> if you notice John is using potting boxes AKA radio Shack project boxes $2.29 each to make his connections.
> Tin



While playing around with the Mach 3 demo last night, I came a cross the wizards for cutting them db-9 connector holes for the boxes....................ohhhhhhhhhhh.....I cant Wait. :big: :big:


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 4, 2010)

My plan, hopefully this weekend is to put potting boxes on the motors then wire db 9 males to the boxes and put the cs resisters inside the box. If I ever get to the point of taking the lathe on the road for demos i do not have to worry about tripping over or puling out the cable from the box just unplug before moving . 
BTW 1hand mach three comes with the g code to cut the profiles for db-9 and dB 25 connectors. Hndy Huh
Tin


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## vlmarshall (Mar 4, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Why the X and Z? I thought it would be the X and Y, for they will be the same motors on both the mill and lathe, the Nema 23 381's, and the Z on the mill is going to be a 34.



I just said it that way 'cause there's no Y on a lathe. ;D There's no reason you couldn't switch X and Y, and just change the pinouts in Mach3.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 4, 2010)

> Why the X and Z? I thought it would be the X and Y, for they will be the same motors on both the mill and lathe, the Nema 23 381's, and the Z on the mill is going to be a 34.


a lathe uses x for the cross slide axis and Z for longitudinal. 
just put the current set resistors either in the project box on the db 9 connector or if you hard wire to the motor conections you can biuld the resistor into the gecko end of the cable this is what I did on the mill. 
that is the beauty of the gecko you do not have to set it up for one type of motor per axis. It just needs to have the right cs resister when you plug a motor in.
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm sorry, I think I maybe experiencing brain overload. Could someone post a pic or two as to where and how the resistors are installed. 

Sorry, but a pic is worth two nights of typing. "especially with one key at a time"

 ;D Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 4, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, I think I maybe experiencing brain overload. Could someone post a pic or two as to where and how the resistors are installed.
> 
> Sorry, but a pic is worth two nights of typing. "especially with one key at a time"
> 
> ;D Matt



The resistors attach to pins 1 and 5 of the DB-9 cable, anywhere that's convenient. 
http://www.geckodrive.com/upload/G540 REV4 MANUAL.pdf


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 5, 2010)

Matt I feel the pain. Even though this is a second build for me there are still lots to think about. I can problem do more picks this weekend. 
If you have not done so download the manual set up guide and general faq sheets from gecko and do the 540b.xml file also you will need it . I have printed the mach 3 books the gecko guides data sheets for my motors and invoices listing all the little parts and put them in a 3 ring binder.Documentation will come in handy down the road. 
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 7, 2010)

This is a email reply from the guy I ordered the G540 from on using the switch boxes.

1)   They are designed to switch low current signals and may or may not switch all pins. If the connectors used and/or the internal wiring does not support operation up to 3.5A it could cause a problem.
2)   The G540 driver uses resistors to program the motor drive current. You'll have to install the resistors on the cables on the motor side to ensure that the correct programming resistor is switched in.
3)   Accidentally switching stepper motors while the drive is on will damage it.

I already ordered the switch boxes. I don't want to burn up a $300 G540, so I'm stressing now on what to do.

Matt


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## stevehuckss396 (Mar 7, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> I don't want to burn up a $300 G540, so I'm stressing now on what to do.



Why stress out, delete the switch box. Put long enough cords so you can unplug the mill and plug in the lathe. Why take a chance?


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 7, 2010)

I think you are bein fed a diclaimeer by salesman covering his but. 

1) I would not try to switch things hot. Open the box and make sure the wire size /gauge is sufficient and check to make sure all leads switch. 
2) if there is propper resistance from pin 1-5 why does it matter where you put it. sounds like asaleman repeating info he knows nothing about. 
3) Put a hinged Plexiglas cover over the boxes to prevent accidental switching. 



> I already ordered the switch boxes. I don't want to burn up a $300 G540, so I'm stressing now on what to do.


no need to stress not the end of your project just use a bit of prudence and you should be fine. If you are realy worried contact marcus @ Geckco and run it by him. 
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 7, 2010)

He is also worried about the wire size in the premade cables. 26 gage isn't heavy enough for the stepper motors. ??? ???


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 7, 2010)

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
yes you should have 24 gauge for full power. I am only running 1.4 amps so no worries with 26 gauge.
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks Tin;

I will be getting some heavier cables made up.


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## vlmarshall (Mar 7, 2010)

Hang in there, Matt... it'll come together.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 7, 2010)

hang in there matt. I started the mill project about 14 months ago. It is probly more ready to go than I am. I only started the lathe a few weeks ago and things are falling into place. Of corse the lathe is a second project 
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm trying to relax, but second guessing myself is always been my down fall.

Should be a bit like Christmas around here in the next week or so when the brown truck starts showing up.

I haven't ordered a CAD/CAM software yet, I figure I would see what Mach 3 and Lazy Cam with the ad-dons will do for me first. I ordered that with my steppers from Keling as they had Mach 3 for $149.

I spouse my DRO and power feed could get sold now as they won't be much use anymore.


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

No turning back now! 















Removed the table, saddle, and the Z axis drive and lead screw. Ready for the Ball screws and mounts.

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

Got the parts for the power Drawbar today.




Won't get to this til the CNC conversion is done.

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

First of the Electrical parts arrived.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 9, 2010)

Wow things moving forward . the power feed will no longer be needed but read the mach 3 manual you can still use the dro as inputs me thinks. They may still be useful do not list hem on e-bay or Craigs list just yet. 
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

Now the first of many wiring questions.

This is the nema 23 stepper.
http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H2100-35-4B.pdf

This the G540 drive.
https://www.geckodrive.com/upload/G540 REV4 MANUAL.pdf

I want to wire up the little db-9 plug in on the motor.

What I gather is this:

I put the 3.48 resistor across from pin 1 and 5.
I hook the RED wire to pin 6
       Blue wire to pin 7
       Black wire to pin 8
      Green wire to pin 9


Am I close?

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

Now for the Nema 34.

http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H295-43-8B.pdf

I hear from someone that I need to wire this as Bipolar Series.

Would this be right?

Pin 1 and 5 a 3.0 resistor between them
Pin 6 gets Brown wire
Pin 7 gets White wire
Pin 8 gets Blue wire
Pin 9 gets Green

Do I just twist the Red and Yellow wires together?
And the Black and Orange?

Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 9, 2010)

the nema 23 looks right and you definitely need to wire bi-polar series on the 34to keep the amps in the range of the gecko 540
Tin


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## vlmarshall (Mar 9, 2010)

Yep, those are right. Go, man, go!

Wow, that's a big motor.


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## vlmarshall (Mar 9, 2010)

What power supply are you using?


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

This look right?





Does it matter which way the color bands on the resistor face?

I'm going to be using a 48v MeanWell power supply.

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Wow, that's a big motor.



Probably could use it for the spindle drive on a Sherline. :big:

Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 9, 2010)

Yes, your wiring is right for the Nema 23 motors. No, it doesn't matter which way the resistors are. 



Yes, I've thought about a giant stepper for a Sherline spindle motor, especially on the lathe... lots of bottom-end torque, exact speed control, and spindle indexing!


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## 1hand (Mar 9, 2010)

Any Ideas for how to attach the Radio Shack small project boxes to the steppers. "Epoxy"???? ???

Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 9, 2010)

Cable tie 'em for now, until you have time to make a bracket that bolts to the tiny threaded holes on the back end of the stepper?


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## Maryak (Mar 10, 2010)

Guys,

Guess what, I don't understand any of this. :'( I can only look on in envy :bow: and wish all of you, all the best with CNC. 

Maybe one day someone will drag me kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 10, 2010)

> Do I just twist the Red and Yellow wires together?
> And the Black and Orange?


I would use some sort of real connection 
1) twist then solder and insulate w tape or shink tube
2) a terminal block probably overkill
3) a crimp connector



> Any Ideas for how to attach the Radio Shack small project boxes to the steppers. "Epoxy"Huh?? Huh?



I was planning on silicone sealer used silicone latex caulk held in place by wire ties have not cut the ties yet.
A bit of sealant around the wire will keep an possible coolant oil or moisture out of the motor. the reason to use a potting bx. 



> make a bracket that bolts to the tiny threaded holes on the back end of the stepper?


interesting idea.
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 10, 2010)

Maryak  said:
			
		

> Guys,
> 
> Guess what, I don't understand any of this. :'( I can only look on in envy :bow: and wish all of you, all the best with CNC.
> 
> ...



Thanks Bob,

I Know absolutely nothing about CNC. These fine folk are helping me through it though. Baby steps, and a willingness to try something new is why alot of us are here in the first place.

Cheers Matt,


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## kuhncw (Mar 10, 2010)

Matt, where did you find the DB9 connector with the circuit board and screw connections? Looks like a nice item.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


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## 1hand (Mar 10, 2010)

Chuck;

First, let me thankyou for your info post on Soigeneris. Jeffery has been a big help on getting me on track. I am getting my Gecko and power supply from him.

Here's the link for the db-9 connectors:
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=8141

I think there pretty darn handy for us one armed fellers. :big:

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 10, 2010)

Today's goodies include the project boxes, soldering station, and a multimeter.





It's starting to look like there's a NASA project going on around here in the basement. 

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 10, 2010)

Here's a data base for electrical cut out templates.

http://www.purcellbrackets.com/dbcutouts.asp

Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 10, 2010)

Good going Matt and you are teaching the rest of us a thing or two as well. That cutout link could come in handy. 
 Those connectors are great for quick motor testing especially when one does not have a spec sheet. A gender bender along with them comes in handy also. 
Tin


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## kuhncw (Mar 10, 2010)

Matt, I'm glad you found the link to Jeffery Birt helpful. 

Also thanks for the link to the drawings for the DB9 connectors. I'm working on a control box for a Taig lathe I've been converting to CNC. I'm using a G540 also. A DB9 connector looks like a good way to bring in lines from the limit switches, etc.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


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## Kermit (Mar 10, 2010)

You're doing fine so far! And Thank You for the link to the templates. 


Looks like you are a 'natural' at electrical stuff as well,
Kermit


Also, an alternate source for those connectors
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6650089


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## 1hand (Mar 10, 2010)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> Looks like you are a 'natural' at electrical stuff as well,
> Kermit



natural, neutral, positive, ground ???

Really I'm not. I'm just trying to take it slow, and asking a lot of questions.

Thanks for looking in, any pointers are appreciated.

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

Here is the Cheap Ebay refurbished Dell I got to run the Mill and Lathe with the Mach 3.





I will probably just use my laptop with the Dolphin CAD/CAM software, and down load my g-code programs to a flash drive. Then upload on the Dell and run the machines with the Mach 3. This way I can take my laptop with me on the road this summer for work, and at night play with making up parts in CAD and CAM. Then when I get home on the weekends, just upload the stuff and BAM we are making chips. ;D

Matt


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## hudmut (Mar 11, 2010)

Its not very often i show my face on here. but let me say this iv not long done a machine of my own and good god have i hat to pull my socks up there is a lot to take in and a lot to get right. I was lucky my machine was all ready a CNC but even so after striping, painting, rewiring, finding what i need sorting problems out it was a lot of work. Any one how takes on a full machine like your doing needs a pat on the back. I did all my own work worked it all out for my self but i got there and after making a few parts what a pay of just don't think things will be faster they will only be a lot better. So carry on you have my full support and i wish you all the luck i can give and will chip in when ever i can.

Some thing i did learn way back go and chop the wiring loom out of a car it has lots of nice color wire in there and it will help you a lot when fault finding its no fun when you have a box full of black wire and yo need to find a black wire that has just come from 5 more black ones. 

Oh and i have limit switch's there easy to wire and set up but it will be a lot of work to add in. They have been use full when learning how to set a job up they have stopped me over running the machine a few times.


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

I'm about ready to throw in the towel. :wall: Seems that every thing I try has to be difficult. 

I downloaded the Mach 3 on the new computer. I received my email with the License attachments, and saved them to the Mach 3 folder. Went back to Mach 3, and clicked on the Help. It still showes that's its a demo version. ???

What am I missing? I went to the C/ drive and opened the Mach 3 folder and the License Zip files are in that same folder.

Pulling my hair out;
Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 11, 2010)

Your license file is called Mach1Lic.dat , and is in the folder with Mach3.exe?


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

I can not find a folder that says Mach3.exe. The Mach1lic.dat is in the folder with about 100 other Mach folders.
???????????


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## RonGinger (Mar 11, 2010)

You should have a folder called C:\Mach3 In that folder are as you say, about 100 files. Among them is Mach3.exe. Also in there must be your license file, Mach1Lic.dat. It must be the real .dat file, not a .zip file

Have you downloaded the Mach3 Install Guide? It is very well written, and has a good step by step process for installing, checking, and configuring mach.

I hate to say RTFM, but in this case that really is the right answer.


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

So........what do I do? Delete the whole folder and start over?

Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 11, 2010)

No!
 ...can you post a screenshot of the folder the mach1lic.dat file is in?


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## vlmarshall (Mar 11, 2010)

Don't get frustrated man.. it'll get better.
I've been staring at my lathe for two days trying to get the spindle index pulse working...I can SEE it working, but my controller isn't DOING anything about it.


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

this is what we have. 

View attachment web page.bmp


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

heres the top and bottom of the page

Matt 

View attachment top page.bmp


View attachment bottom page.bmp


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## vlmarshall (Mar 11, 2010)

ah yeah, your license file is still Zipped. Unzip it right where you have it.


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

how do you do that?


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## vlmarshall (Mar 11, 2010)

Right-click on it, and you should get a bunch of options, including "Extract Here" or similar. Do that, and it'll pile the contents of that zip into the current location.


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## vlmarshall (Mar 11, 2010)

Hahaha, I'm glad you got it! ;D See, it wasn't so bad. The .exe, though, isn't part of the license. Anyway, it works! How about LazyCAM and all?





95 South did that song first.


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## 1hand (Mar 11, 2010)

I went back and opened all of them, and In the Wizards, it won't let me change any thing in them. They go right back to the default numbers. ??? I go up above to the Help, and I'm still in there as a license person, but it won't let me use them.

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 12, 2010)

Duh..........I figured it out. Gots to press enter after each entry. A mouse click doesn't do it.

Easy fix.

Matt ;D


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## mnewsholme (Mar 12, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Whoop...........there it is. Licensed to Matthew Razink. Thanks a Million.
> 
> *Wonder why there isn't that exe. file in there?*
> 
> ...



the .exe file is there. on the screenshot of the bottom part of the mach3 folder, there's a file called mach3 with a black circle as its icon. Thats the mach3.exe file. windows doesnt display the file extension ( the .exe bit in this case) for some file types.


matt


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## Kermit (Mar 12, 2010)

Hey Matt... Looks like you got the software load whipped.  

If you don't want to use limit switches, you will need a "weak link" in the drive train that will break if driven into a stop under power.  All this was probably covered somewhere in the your readings and researches. The suggestion for multicolored wiring is a smart one. If you use terminal strips that pinch a bare wire between a screw and a metal surface, it will eventually become loose or intermittant. The bare wire should have a ferrule crimped on it, or a lean smooth flow of solder should be applied to the bare wire before bending with needle nose and placing with a right hand lay(clockwise) beneath the screw. If you have a solder gun or iron with 40 watts or more, you should also flow a small amount of solder onto any crimped-on connectors after they are crimped, for complete assurance of a low resistance joint. With the extra thermal mass, using 25 watt solder irons for this operation is futile. leading to long heating times, melting of insulation coverings and blobs of solder that do not 'flow'. 

All this info offered free and unsolicited, because I'm tweeking on strong coffee and can't stop typing.... ;D
Kermit


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## 1hand (Mar 12, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Today's goodies include the project boxes, soldering station, and a multimeter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just picked up a 60watt station, so I should be good to go there.


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## 1hand (Mar 12, 2010)

Here is the Soigeneris control box.





A shot of the G540





Inside houses the MeanWell 320W 48V Power Supply with its own fan.





This control box is built like a tank. I am tickled pink with the craftsmanship of the entire controller.

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 12, 2010)

Here we got the 20 AWG stepper motor cables with the db9's attached.





A db9 connector rigged up for 2 external E-stops, 1 by the Mill, and 1 by the Lathe.





A 3K resistor for the Nema 34.





Some limit switches. Haven't decided yet on them.





Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 12, 2010)

Here is the control center I built today. It's smack dab in between the Mill and the Lathe. The monitor rotates 90deg left and right, so it should work pretty sweet for running both machines. 





Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 12, 2010)

Nice... much better'n my setup.


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## 1hand (Mar 12, 2010)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Nice... much better'n my setup.



Yours works though!! :big:

Do I need to Add anything to the Mach 3 to recognize the G540, or is it just a plug and play?
While I'm waiting for the ball screws, I figure I would hook up the motors on the bench and see if I can make them turn.

Thanks
Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 12, 2010)

> Do I need to Add anything to the Mach 3 to recognize the G540, or is it just a plug and play?


You need to download the 540b.xml file from gecko then copy your mill profile and rename it and set it up to call on the 540b file.
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 13, 2010)

That was the longest 6 hours of my life, but I finally made a stepper move with a stroke of the keyboard........VICTORY. *beer*


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 13, 2010)

Get some sleep
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 13, 2010)

Big yawn!!!


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## 1hand (Mar 16, 2010)

Being the computer is placed in between the two machines, I got something that's a bit more mobile than the key board for jogging.






Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 16, 2010)

1hand  said:
			
		

> Being the computer is placed in between the two machines, I got something that's a bit more mobile than the key board for jogging.



Excellent! I've often wished for something like that... even more now that I've got two machines to run between.


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## 1hand (Mar 16, 2010)

Had a little glitch today. I realized that for the resistors to do any good in the plotting boxes, I need 6 wire leads instead of the 4 lead wire I have. :wall: At lease I caught it now before I smoked something. :shrug:  th_wtf1
So I must be learning something so far :

Oh well, 

Got a few things soldered and wired up today anyway.

















Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 17, 2010)

> Had a little glitch today. I realized that for the resistors to do any good in the plotting boxes, I need 6 wire leads instead of the 4 lead wire I have.


ge why does that sound like deja vu
 ;D
Tin


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## 1hand (Mar 19, 2010)

Some progress:

The Z ballscrew













Of course The Z motor pulley is on backorder

















Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 19, 2010)

X and Y














Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 19, 2010)

Even though I don't have the pulley to finsh the Z axis, I had to play a bit!













Cheers Matt


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## vlmarshall (Mar 19, 2010)

Looking good! :bow:
Having fun yet?


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## ksouers (Mar 19, 2010)

Nice playing there, Matt.

Your machine sounds like how I feel :


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## GailInNM (Mar 19, 2010)

Coming together quickly and nicely, Matt.
Have fun playing.
Gail in NM


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## 1hand (Mar 19, 2010)

This is the most fun I've had since the pigs ate my little brother!!!! :big: 

Matt


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## 1hand (Mar 19, 2010)

Got da call. Back to work on Monday.............Lay off is over!!!!!!!!!!

Matt


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## rake60 (Mar 19, 2010)

Now that is worth celebrating Matt! Thm: 

Great News!

Rick


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## Kermit (Mar 19, 2010)

Sounds like the layoff was only just long enough for this conversion to get done. 

Think it will slow you down any on the conversion? Looks like you have it all done except for icing the cake. 


Congrats on the work situation,
Kermit


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## Maryak (Mar 19, 2010)

Matt,

Great News. ;D

Best Regards
Bob


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## 1hand (Mar 19, 2010)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> Think it will slow you down any on the conversion?
> Kermit



Sounds like the first month or so we will be working locally, so should be able to wrap up a few things up in the basement in the evenings. Then I'll be on the road working a way from home the rest of summer and to our camper at the lake on the weekends with the family, so things will be on hold til after deer season in the fall.

Matt


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## zeeprogrammer (Mar 19, 2010)

Congratulations on the both the conversion and the job Matt.
I'm glad you got the work...you were having too much fun with the conversion. ;D


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 20, 2010)

good to hear you are getting back to work . Make sure you take good notes and write things down . also organize parts and materials . less hassle in the fall when you are tying to remember everything and start over. 
tin


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## 1hand (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks Z and Tin.............

Next comes the lathe. Should be fun now with the aid of the CNC Mill. I really enjoy this kinda stuff. I really don't know much about it, but is very interesting to me. I want to thank all of you that helped me through making this conversion a reality.

Matt


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## 1hand (Aug 15, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> good to hear you are getting back to work . Make sure you take good notes and write things down . also organize parts and materials . less hassle in the fall when you are tying to remember everything and start over.
> tin


Tin
Should of taken your advice a bit more serious. After 5 months of 70+ hour weeks and numerous summer projects, finally got a sunday afternoon in the basement. I think I have forgot way more than I ever learned last winter. I was totally lost down there today...............And where the hell did the bench go. It take a month of sundays to find my way through all the accumulated junk. O well winter is coming and so will another layoff to start over and get the lathe converted and relearn everything I forgot. :noidea:

Matt


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## ksouers (Aug 15, 2010)

Hey Matt!!

Welcome back. Hope they are letting you have a break finally!


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 15, 2010)

> Tin
> Should of taken your advice a bit more serious.


 well I try , and do not think I am perfect or anything close. usually when i give such advice it is because I have fell in the same trap at least a half dozen times myself . Been there done it sweated in the t- shirt after I printed on it. 
Memory is a funny thing ask me what I did last Wednesday and probably cant tell you ask me what i did Sept 10 2001 I can tell you almost by the hour and tell you I had Chinese takeout for supper. Weird 
Well anyway welcome back 
Tin


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