# Stuart Twin Victoria from scratch



## Jack3M (Nov 30, 2017)

I am new here, this is new hobby area of interest for me.  I should also introduce myself here too as this is my first post.  Retired from work as Paramedic and auto mechanic among others.  Hobbies have been scratch built in static tall ships, scratch built radio control aircraft at 1/4 and 1/3 scale.  I fly same and RC heli copters.  Have a recreational shop capable of building guitars from hunks of wood to (hopefully) the ability to smelt my own product and cast my own parts to machine.  I have a 7x12 lathe almost worn out and a new 10x22 lathe along with a mill with DRO.  Added DRO to new lathe myself.  Have built houses, have hunted and eaten mushrooms and am still alive :fan:  Thus I call myself Jack of all trades, master of none.

So the static engine world has me enthralled.  Someday a hit and miss but for now, I want a Stuart Victoria....Twin.  Look, the kit price is just huge and the shipping to the NW USA is a killer.  For the price of a kit I bought a 3-D printer to make my casting plugs.  I have played with sand casting in the past so I am not totally out of it on this.  But I am not particularly techie so I am having to learn very slowly 3-D drawing on a computer.  I can do it faster by hand.  

No pictures yet, only first half of first print is done printing.....the base.  I still have to source some petrobond locally and maybe some kaowool too.  Hoping to get the forge hot enough to do pig iron....which I can source locally and not pay shipping on.  

This will kind of be a build thread as I learn all of this.  A pretty significant undertaking.  I bought the plans from Stuart along with the governor plans.  I am learning how to use Solidworks, 3D printing, serious forging and at home casting, along with learning machining techniques.  (Could have made a career out of machining, what a blast, I dig big time making tools to make something else.

Will follow with pictures soon, I am really bad about taking enough, and I rarely video, tho I do have a few Utubes out there under SpruceSculptures.

Folks, have a day.  Ya'll seem to be a well educated bunch of nice peoples.


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## Jasonb (Nov 30, 2017)

Probably be easier to cut from solid and or fabricate the parts rather than go through the bother of printing, casting and machining. Maybe buy a flywheel casting from one of the US suppliers but the rest is easy enough to make.


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## Jack3M (Nov 30, 2017)

True, but then the project is too easy.  Need all these other challenges to consume winter rains.


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## Rudy (Nov 30, 2017)

Jack, I like your approach. Just finished a Stuart 10V my selves and the chilled castings from Stuart was a disappointment. As it was my first pieces of iron under my new mill and lathe so I was put down a bit. So when you make your own castings, you can probably get this problem under control.
As a starter project I have numerous times read that this kind of engine is a good choice. I don't totally agree. The same amount of times I have seen engines worn (broken) inn for a long time in the lathe in order to turn freely. This is in my mind because of failure to get the cylinder, bottom cylinder cover and the rod supporting slide perfectly in line. Any error in one end gets amplified at one end of the stroke. I have never seen anybody emphasis this phenomena. Therefore, I think it is difficult to make such an engine running smooth. I did a lot of planning ahead and took this into consideration and managed to get it straight. Pay attention to the bottom cylinder plate. I call this the "hart plate" because it determines the result to a high degree. The lathe and mill does not have the accuracy you need, so the work has to be in the machine until critical dimensions are made.
The Victoria is a beautiful machine.. If I make one (or twin) I will cave it out of bar stock. Casting is of cause very interesting..
Please let us have some pics and descriptions along your build.


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## Jack3M (Nov 30, 2017)

Thanks.  I just finished the 10V and my castings did not have any chill problem, they were all excellent.  Sorry that put you off.  I disagree about me being able to control chilling more than a foundry can.  I am just having trouble with my melts and slag and enough heat so....  We shall see.  This is more about doing everything myself that I possibly can to keep the ole squash upstairs occupied.  Retirement isn't fun on so many rainy days.


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## Rudy (Nov 30, 2017)

Glad to hear your castings where ok, because I wanted to build another Stuart. I like them a lot. I assumed when casting at home one could maybe put more effort than speed into the process. However, I have no experience.
I also like to do most my selves, so maybe I will just buy the drawings and machine everything my selves, making it look like castings. That is exactly what I'm about to do now with my newly started project, the Farm Boy hit'n miss engine. Only bar stock, but looks like castings. Lot of machining.


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## Blogwitch (Nov 30, 2017)

Jack,
Have you thought about casting in bronze and Aluminium instead of cast iron?

Using bronze should give you castings that are easier to machine but still plenty good enough for cylinders and standards etc.


John


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## Jack3M (Dec 1, 2017)

John, 
Yes, I have and probably will use plenty of bronze and brass also.  Just some parts really would have a better impact as cast iron.  I am not even that close yet.  My forge needs some modification.....


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## Blogwitch (Dec 1, 2017)

That may be your problem Jack, getting your furnace up to a temperature that will melt cast iron. 

John


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## fcheslop (Dec 2, 2017)

Rudy , Tee Publishing sell a book on building Victoria for around the same price as the Stuart drawings and they are a bit easier to read 
I built one from bar stock but can see the reasons to cast and make patterns for the fun of it
http://www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/stationary-steam-engines/building-the-victoria/
cheers


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## Jack3M (Dec 2, 2017)

Yes, not sure if my furnace will melt iron.  Also silica bronze will accept a patina and is resistant to rust and corrosion.  Also, at least for where I am and how I have to get the product, it is looking like the bronze will be less expensive and hassle.

My 3D printer as been working 16 hours a day since I got it a week ago.  The only part that was too big for the table was the base, cut that in half and it just needs to have the two halves glued together for molding.  I am impressed how well this works.  One could make a whole plastic model this way and assemble.


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## Cogsy (Dec 2, 2017)

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm considering attempting to 3D model one of my engines and printing out a copy in plastic, maybe 1:1 or maybe smaller. Essentially a model of a model. At the very least I'll refine my rudimentary 3D modelling skills a bit.


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## Jack3M (Dec 3, 2017)

Cogsy said:


> . At the very least I'll refine my rudimentary 3D modelling skills a bit.


I must admit my SolidWorks skills are improving very quickly.  Love that program.


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## Jack3M (Dec 3, 2017)

I see "silver steel" in many foreign (Brit) Utubes and such.  No such naming here in USA.  What is it?  Nickel?  Tool steel?


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## Mechanicboy (Dec 3, 2017)

Jack3M said:


> I see "silver steel" in many foreign (Brit) Utubes and such.  No such naming here in USA.  What is it?  Nickel?  Tool steel?



Silver steel = drill rod


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## Jack3M (Dec 5, 2017)

Pictures, I have picture.  This is the majority of the plugs for the first go around.  Coffee cup for ref.


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## Jasonb (Dec 5, 2017)

Nice looking prints. Have you printed them as shown on the drawing as I can't see much of a machining allowance on the surfaces that will need it? Stuart castings are know for being a bit tight in this respect but most other suppliers will give you about 0.100" on all surfaces.

Also if you are not going to burn them out you will need some draft angle and an allowance for the shrinkage of the metal you finally decide on.


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## Jack3M (Dec 5, 2017)

Yes 5% added for shrinkage and draft on necessary.  Actually need to cut the cyls in different plane.


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## Rudy (Dec 5, 2017)

Jack, do I see 90 degree angles against the table? If so the parts will have a hard time getting loose from the sand mold. Slip angles makes it easier.


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## Jack3M (Dec 5, 2017)

No, everything has draft, it is the photo angle.


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## bouch (Dec 6, 2017)

Jack3M said:


> Pictures, I have picture.  This is the majority of the plugs for the first go around.  Coffee cup for ref.



WFIW - I have a complete set of "Victoria" castings, still in the Stuart shrink wrap, aging down in my shop.  I got them for a bargain price at a show 20+ years ago.  If you want photos of the Stuart castings to compare against your work, let me know.


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## Jack3M (Dec 8, 2017)

5% works as a shrinkage factor.  Did a 'test' cast of some bosses yesterday,  First time I have ever used Petrobond.  WELL worth the money, easy to use and does nice job. 

Anyway the pieces were supposed to be 1x13/16 and the are just over those specs leaving enough to machine.  So the parts should all be the appropriate size.  Waiting on Bronze ingots to arrive.


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## Jack3M (Dec 16, 2017)

Having some issues with simple casts of a test item.  Seems parts just don't come out well like the metal (brass) may be solidifying before the entire open space is filled.  Possibly not hot enough on the brass, it isn't smoking yet and I read somewhere it should just be smoking at pour temp.


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## Jack3M (Dec 19, 2017)

Was not sure whether to post here or in the Foundry Forum.  Having a problem with solidification before the mold has filled.  Am using multiple vents, 3 sprues on a 7" flywheel.  Metal cooling before it makes it to the next sprue and then won't take more molten metal.  

I must admit I don't know the temp at which I am pouring.  I just ordered a thermocouple off Amazon due in 2 days.  Anyone know a temp to shoot for with brass and with bronze to cast?

Should I somehow preheat my molds?  Anyone know how if so?


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## WSMkid (Dec 19, 2017)

Those who I've watched on YouTube do preheat. I'm betting you have done some looking but this guy has been having some success with brass and alu. 
A little long winded but not bad. 

 [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20iYekoQUUA[/ame]

Thank you for posting about your trials. I hope to start casting in a year or so once my shop/house is built and I'm settled it. 

Following along in the back row,
GJ


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## Jasonb (Dec 20, 2017)

Depends on the exact type of brass but 1750F would be a guide.

Should not need to preheat your petrobond, if your temp is right the sand in contact with the metal will turn into a black skin and need to be thrown away, sand that is not hardened by the heat can be reused. When I last did any fresh sand was sifted over the pattern to get teh best surface finish and then the older reused stuff used to fill the bulk of the moulding box.


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## WSMkid (Dec 20, 2017)

Sorry, I automatically associated printing with investment casting. 
Still a good video if you need to kill some time. 

GJ


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## Jack3M (Dec 20, 2017)

I don't know the type of brass.  It was 12' rod that I cut up.  The seller did not know the type so I got a good deal.  I suppose I could take the mold and put it in the oven for awhile.  But that is only a few hundred degrees.  Ambient temp for my shop right now is upper 40's to mid 50's

It also looks like I am getting bubbles in the metal on the exterior, but supposedly brass does not need degassing.

So much to learn.  Keeps me going


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## Jack3M (Dec 22, 2017)

My mechanical engineer son was over last night and he feels that the sprues are not large enough, the pour funnel is too small and probably need to change how I am doing this.  Now my problem will be I need a larger crucible to handle the larger amount of metal.


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## Jack3M (Dec 27, 2017)

I have a picture!!!!   


After many failures, I got several parts made today that are usable.  Many things were causing my problems, but I think the most significant was that I was not continuing to heat the melt long enough to get the temp high enough to maintain fluid state during the pour.  

It also helps to have huge spigots, passages, and sprues.  But when it is right you know during the pour.  (Learned that just today).  These look in the photo more rough than they are.  They will work just fine.  Not visibly perfect, but ring true when hit or dropped.

These are bronze/gunmetal.  Once my larger crucible gets here, will try the brass again on the flywheels.


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## Jack3M (Dec 28, 2017)

I guess the photo really doesn't look like much with all the scarf and such.

Learned something new today.  The better the coat of talc/baby powder (with petrobond you can use baby powder) the better the demold of the plug.  Also wiggle the part a bit before pulling.

The plastic (PLA) needs to be as smooth as possible or the chances of a bad pull increase.  I found that using a single sided type blade as a scraper works much better than sandpaper which leaves a fibrous covering.   Using a combination of hands and rammers to pack the sand works better than just ramming.  Hands early on, like on the first packing.

So the new crucible came today.  I need to modify some stuff with the forge to hold it.  I had just been using firebrick, now I do need to use the real forge.  I am pushing the limits of propane with this one.


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## Cogsy (Dec 28, 2017)

If you need your prints super smooth, it may be better to print in ABS then look at acetone vapour polishing them. I've heard you can get very smooth results from that. Myself, I've only just started printing in ABS and it has not been anywhere near as difficult as most online discussions make it out to be. I haven't even contemplated polishing yet though.


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## Jack3M (Dec 29, 2017)

Thanks Al, I did consider that.  I also considered an epoxy dip and drip dry.  Did neither.  Did as above and things are fine.  AND I didn't stink things up with ABS.


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## Jack3M (Dec 29, 2017)

Cool beans, had awesome day.  Didn't like the way my forge burned with such a large crucible, so I made a new one and it is the best one I have ever had.  Melted 8 pounds of brass in 20 minutes with propane burner (Harbor Freight weed burner).  I think using the fire bricks works so much better than anything else I have tried.  The bottle was even starting to show signs of low pressure and I was expecting to have to change out midway.  Not so.  Those bricks cost me about $5 each, took 22 + some other stuff to make.  Best part is, it can be undone and resized to whatever the necessary size is AND be put away in a corner when not casting.



Then I actually had a flywheel turn out.  Will be doing a lot of cleaning up, but it will machine fine.  I waited until the brass was beginning to vaporize before pulling dross and pouring.  (the spigots are 1" diameter.)



Regardless very pleased with the results.  I must say I like the firebrick for kilns better, they are lighter than the type used in fireplaces but are still same size.


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## Jack3M (Dec 31, 2017)

Forgot to show the input end.  The distance the burner is out is critical.  There has to be enough air movement to burn all the propane.  That is a #6 crucible.

Cleaning up the flywheel I found a bad flaw and had to recast it.  Looks like this one is okay.  Also cast one of the bases in bronze.  Got one flaw that I think will not be an issue as it will not be seen due to this being a twin version.

Will post pic of both when the sprues and such are cut off.


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## Jack3M (Jan 1, 2018)

Well don't know if this shows well or not.  Cleaned up a couple faces on the flywheel.  I have pits.  Considering using the TIG and brass rod to fill them, might be easier and more productive than constantly redoing.  I still have to make another base and flywheel regardless.

If I were willing to just paint it, I could fill them no problem with body filler and then paint.  I think the idea of some shiney brass for the outer rim is probably more visually appealing


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## Jack3M (Jan 3, 2018)

I tried filling with the rod and TIG.  It works, but each spot shows as a different color brass, so a no go.  And, it was nasty trying to do this, the zinc would oxidize and make things splatter.


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## Jack3M (Jan 6, 2018)

Cool beans.  I got my flywheels.  Moving to my last large pieces, the cylinders.  These require a core to have the hollow part.  I tried first just using the sand, but kept getting a void inside the cylinder above where the core is.

I guessed it was gasses escaping from the binder and such in the sand, so yesterday I made a core and burned it to a glowing crisp as I melted a bunch of dross/slag that still had quite a bit of metal in it.  

So today I hope to see if this method fixes that problem.  

Also, the tiny parts are really difficult to extract from the sand without damage to the mold.  As one of the provided links was about lost PLA casting I researched that and will be giving that a shot in the next few days.  Going to try using plaster of paris instead of real investment just for a try


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## WSMkid (Jan 6, 2018)

Please document your findings with the lost PLA. I'll be following along. 
Best of luck. 
GJ


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## Jack3M (Jan 6, 2018)

WSMkid said:


> Please document your findings with the lost PLA. I'll be following along.
> Best of luck.
> GJ


Okay will do.


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## Jack3M (Jan 14, 2018)

Been not feeling so well, so not much done, plus the lost PLA mold needs to cure completely before I fire it.

So, made parts and sprues with thin wall, no fill.  Glued them all together in a grouping that would fit in the mold and allow air to escape when the pour occurs.





The gaps have been filled with some CA.  Really unsure how this will do in the burnout.  




Weighed the whole thing and brought up into the living area and placed it near the wood stove.  Next step will be oven at 350 (upside down) when no more weight change.  Then fire it in the forge upside down.

After the burn out, some compressed air to blow out the ashes.  The PLA does turn to a white ash at high temps.

Once these are done the casting part will be completed.


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## Cogsy (Jan 14, 2018)

I'm keen to see how that lost PLA turns out for you as well. I'd like to do it but lack a burn-out oven to use. If it works really well I might have to start working on a plan to get/make one somehow.


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## Jasonb (Jan 15, 2018)

Just be careful how you go when you pour that one as the investment is usually left in the (metal) flask. For safety put in in something like a bucket and lightly pack sand around it just in case it should crack and open up.


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## Jack3M (Jan 18, 2018)

Cogsy,
I don't have a burn out over per se, I will just use the forge.  I have less than $100 into the one in the photo above.


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## Jack3M (Jan 22, 2018)

Well using plaster of Paris was an almost total flop.  Almost because the process does clean out the PLA very well.  Unfortunately, the POP doesn't handle the firing process at all well.  I went to take it out of the furnace and it disintegrated into jillions of pieces.  There were spots tho, that I could see that the PLA was completely gone with no trace of ash.

I need to cast a chunk of bronze for a Southworth Duplex Pump I just screwed up on.  Therefore will give the sand another try.  Need to check a couple stores in Portland to see if they have investment, and wax for between pieces sprues.

This duplex pump is so cool. 
http://www.southworthengines.co.uk/steam-feed-pumps/duplex-steam-pumps/ 
If you order, tell Bob I sent ya.  He was nice enough to GIVE me a set of plans for a Corliss that I can try to work up into Solidworks.  Very old, whispy,  unclear PDF files.  Haven't even begun that project yet.


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## Jack3M (Jan 28, 2018)

In researching for investment powder I have learned that wax and in particular rapid prototype plastics expand enough in the burnout process that they can cause the mold to break into little pieces.  Sounds like what I saw with the plaster of paris.  Any knowledge shared about that would be appreciated.


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## Cogsy (Jan 29, 2018)

Can't comment on wax but I have some experience with PLA from 3D printing. I know PLA expands as it is heated but realistically, if the mold is made with thin enough walls not only will expansion be minimal (with a minimal volume of material to expand) but the walls themselves will be reasonably easy to deform as they are heated and should buckle rather than split the plaster. The stuff gets quite 'plastic' at reasonably low temps too (say 70 C) so it shouldn't be able to expand much before losing its rigidity. Unless the mold is made for high strength with lots of infill I just can't see it happening with PLA.


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## Jack3M (Jan 29, 2018)

Ya I did it with no infill


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## Jack3M (Feb 3, 2018)

Well, at the cost and shipping, investment isn't worth it for this much.  I still need to make the steam chests and covers.  Covers are as simple as sheet, the chests just waste a bunch of metal.  (I have learned once run thru mill or lathe, the chips really will not melt, mostly just make a slag.)  So at that, will progress slowly for now, as I have another steam project going, and spring is coming.  I need to get the bottom of our boat painted before putting back in the slip, no later than the first of next month.  

Be assured, I will update as I go along.  I am almost finished with the other steam project.  Weather will play a big part in how much I get done, the worse the weather, the more that gets done.:fan:


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## Jack3M (Feb 16, 2018)

Made a couple pieces yesterday for this, as I was going to have to switch to the 3-jaw.  With the 4-jaw on for a different project, just made these up quickly from the casting.


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## Jack3M (Feb 23, 2018)

Had some more spare time between, waiting on some parts.  Took out the flywheels and began a more thorough cleanup.  I found them both not to meet MY requirements, so I cut them up and cast them again late yesterday.  Be later today before I pull them.


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## Jack3M (Mar 2, 2018)

New flywheels came out much better.  Keep forgetting photos.  But the first one is cleaning up nicely, will try to remember photo soon


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## Jack3M (Mar 2, 2018)

No matter what, they are still going to be rough.  I guess it will just be the trait of this one.  I have to remember how much I have learned so far regarding this whole casting process.  If I had to do this all over I would give myself more metal to machine off.  I was not generous enough.  Since both flywheels need to be exactly the same, on the same axle, there is still much to do, this being just the first of the two.  

Fishing season is open, just waiting on the salmon to get upriver this far.


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## Jack3M (Mar 9, 2018)

Got them both done and painted sitting on crank drying paint....cold in garage not drying well.


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## Jack3M (Mar 15, 2018)

The week from hell.  About all that pertains to this is the fluke accident that occurred.  Something dropped onto a piece of metal, flipping it up into the mill while it was operating and it busted 2 gears.  That was Monday and it has gone downhill since.  Many other things not pertaining to this stuff so I will not bore you.

I have managed to make a few pieces, lathe work only.  Need to buy some steel stock for several other small pieces.  I am considering buying a pair of cylinders from Stewart, don't have the skill to cast them well


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## Jack3M (Mar 15, 2018)

Well a pair of cylinders will run about $50 for me plus shipping.  Just ordered $100 of steel and cast iron.  This project is beginning to look like it will cost more than a kit would have.  Time will tell.  (Of course I will have left over 'stock' by doing things this way for the next project.)  

Still thinkin on the cyls.  Need to go fishin and think on it.  At least the boat didn't have serious issue, one that can be worked around and not get stranded.

This has been a :fan: week.  Finally looking like things are turning the corner.


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## Jack3M (Mar 28, 2018)

Update, no photos.  Fishing season has commenced, so not doing much.  Have managed to make the steam chests and covers, some load bearing beam things, and milled the bases true.  The bases still need a bunch of filing to clean up before photos.

Of course, still had to fix the mill, which gave me opportunity to lube everything while it was apart.  Made a tramming tool for the head as it had to be moved to do the work.  (That one of Utube that uses a pair of harbor freight dial indicators.) It does make life much easier.  

So maybe some photos next time, not much to see really.


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## Jack3M (Mar 31, 2018)

Picture time of several of the parts, both during and after.  Also decided to print up a plug for the Eccentric arm end so I can cast that, along with 2 parts I didn't realize I needed 4 of instead of 2, so more casting to do too.  




The completed basic steam chest and cover.  As you can see in the next pic, I need to alter the plans as I figured it would be easier to make the 'spigots' by actually using a bush on one end and an O-ring and gland.  (Learned that method on a previous project and I like it very much, plus it looks really cool.)  The upper bush will be reamed along with the other opening so it will be true.




Of course the bases.  Forest Green rattle can, 2 heavy coats.  Light sanding to bring the mounts back out clean.




And the Cylinder heads, the bottoms are mostly made too, I also modified the plans to cut the glands out of bar stock while making the balance of it.  That has not been done yet.  I get a kick out of veering off the plans to make a job look better or make it a lot easier to make it or service it. (Several years in mechanical industry, just not machining.)




Thanks for looking.... I do note the number of visits even for minor posts, so thanks for following.  Makes it worthwhile to take the time to post this stuff, I get so impatient, LOL


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## Jack3M (Apr 2, 2018)

Cylinder base before and after completion of the gland and recess for O-ring.  Also, the cylinders arrived today.  I am glad that I bought them.  The ports are cast in.  Far above my ability for sure.


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## Jack3M (Apr 8, 2018)

Ok fishing over for now.  Been doing a bit here and there, just not posting the photos I took until process was all visible.

First shot is the gland for the cylinder base.  There will be an o-ring and it slides into the base part from the previous post.  Holes for bolts and such I do at the very end once all my parts are built.



Then started working on some of the guts for the steam chest, the slide and it's carrier shaft.  Back side has .093 depth for steam/exhaust passage.  Just solid piece of bronze cast for these.  Took the photo before both were done so only need to post once for this.


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## Mechanicboy (Apr 8, 2018)

Hi, the fit is too sloppy. 

It must be slack free fit (zero play) to keep timing correct but move free in sideways created by pressure of steam. Keep milling pin sharp when milling in bronce + low feeding then all surfaces will be better and true.


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## Jack3M (Apr 9, 2018)

Thanks, I wondered about that.


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## Jack3M (Apr 10, 2018)

In remaking the slide valves again yesterday, it was discovered it was the nut, not the slot that was incorrect size.  But I felt the old ones were shoddy workmanship and redid them with a sharp bit.


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## Mechanicboy (Apr 10, 2018)

First of all: Milling the inside room for exhaust in correct size, then trim the outer side around the valve with correct width. See picture..

Second: Hold the valve on milling table or in precision vice and create grove for valve rod and nut for rod.


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## Jack3M (Apr 11, 2018)

The new and improved, no slop at all.


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## Jack3M (Apr 15, 2018)

Got another piece done.  This one was a 'screwed' up casting, but the other one, which is right, isn't the right diameter inside so I need to make another with a smaller hole.  LOL.


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## Jack3M (Apr 15, 2018)

Was just reflecting on some of the things I have learned so far with this project.  First, the reason I could not figure out the cylinders was because some items are cast in but not shown in the plans.  Glad I bought the cylinders, and could have used the ones I cast in bronze.  It was very difficult to get the casting sand out from the passages.

When casting raw parts, you can have multiple failures in the edges so long as it is to the positive side (or the side that needs to be cleaned up)  of the part.  This includes casting your own bar stock, which is much more cost effective than buying bar stock in bronze...at least for me.  

8BA converts well to 2.0 mm
7BA converts well to 2.5 mm
5 BA converts well to 3.0 mm

Probably doing many things the 'wrong' way.  That is the advantage to not knowing what you are doing.  Having fun, regardless of right or wrong.


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## Runner (Apr 18, 2018)

8BA converts well to 2.0 mm
7BA converts well to 2.5 mm
5 BA converts well to 3.0 mm


I found this also to be the case when I changed all my hex headed BA steel fasteners with stainless hex drive screws on my locomotives. 3.0 mm hex drive screws replaced 6 BA fasteners, it was probably more like the stainless being hard enough to cut a new thread into the brass or gunmetal female thread. Hex drive stainless steel by virtue of the use of an allen key can be nipped up much tighter without fear of shearing off the screw as was the case when just using steel screws.

Brian


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## Jack3M (Apr 18, 2018)

Cyl brackets, two are cast bronze, two are bar stock alum.

Cleaning up the second eccentric strap and machining.




Boring to size after cutting and bolting together.




Done



Done is relative, got holes to drill and such still, polish, etc.


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## Jack3M (Apr 18, 2018)

Got both bearing stands made and a pair of oil cups.  Tried in the crankshaft and smooth silky fit.  

Still need to paint them among other things


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## Jack3M (Apr 21, 2018)

Painted bearings, and the slides for the crossheads.  Those were kind of fun to make.  Spent more time thinking on process than doing.


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## Jack3M (Apr 24, 2018)

LOL, getting pics from phone to computer and deleted half of the ones I wanted to post, got to take them again not.  LOL....COFFEE. More coffee.




Cranks




Not sure what to call this but it was not easy to make.  Albeit it seems/looks easy.  It has different hole sizes on the same plane and it is difficult to keep them both on the same plane, drill bits wander a bit over that full depth, but they work and the holes are for an axle that will never move, so a tight fit is good.  




The top rail for the crosshead slides.  Bottom is just straight forward with comparable holes for mounting.  With oil cup.


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## Jack3M (Apr 24, 2018)

Shuckey darns, I need to remake both of these, going to use bronze now.  It is actually a bearing surface for the shaft that connects to the eccentric and the steam chest shaft.

So started by whacking off a hunk of bronze from the ingot, no need to melt this time....I think I waste more in the melt.


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## Jack3M (Apr 27, 2018)

Okay, been crazy this week.  Bees are swarming.  Caught and lost one bunch.  Hot for here 90 yesterday, real killer after last week in the 50's.  

The only lathe work left is the eccentrics and the connecting rods, which have a double taper, one on each end.  All 4-jaw work, which I have learned not to freak about.  Quite concerned about how to go about this one part tho.  Been thinking on it for awhile.  Since it is unequal sides with the double taper between the ends I am thinking get the taper first with 4 jaw and live center, then mill in the two ends.


Regardless been doing little bits and pieces along with redoing the  whatever it is called.  I prefer do-hickey, but it could be a doo-hickey  whompus.  Whatever. 




Then these, fiddly little bits and glands.  Why two glands in bronze and two in brass?  Well that was what I had, will pair them accordingly on the assembly


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## Jack3M (Apr 29, 2018)

Kept having probs with pictures.  Lost the ones of the eccentrics.  But still have 2 of the con rod.

The con rod was a big worry as mentioned above.  The double taper was a challenge for me, goofed a little on one, but sort of make it look right.  Did not want to have to re-cast a hunk of metal after all this turning.  Lots of waste.

Regardless a pair of pieces were cast that were 10" long, and 1/2x34, milling that down to true 3/8x1/2.  Rounded the center to largest diameter and then tapered from center to each end.  My cross slide isn't marked in single degree increments so I had to guess and that is how the first one got a bit off...

Then the ends were drilled and milled to proper sizes.  There will be a bushing in the one end, which still needs made.  

So now with these done, just need to do the cylinders that I bought, and find some 1/4x1/8 steel, which is proving to be a challenge here locally.   

Pictures.


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## Jack3M (May 1, 2018)

Eccentric sheaves, in place with the specific eccentric as each one is slightly different and for smooth operation they needed to be fitted to each separately.




The cylinders bored and sized.  Note the port INSIDE the cylinder.  They really make nice stuff, Stuart does.  Wish I could cast that well.




And slightly exciting, the assembly begins.  This is the bushing pressed in place with the bolt




Now the base size will have to be figured out and on preliminary inspection, it will be necessary to do a partial mockup with the cylinders and rods and such.  Plus I want to make a governor and install that.  Need to look at those plans now too, maybe I should make those parts as well first?  Pause time me thinks, to figure this out.  Put a lot of work in so far and don't want to screw up now.  Other than decent plywood, I cannot think of a good material for the base.  I do have thin sheets of exotic woods that I can use to cover it with, but the top of the base will look odd in wood.  Considering some diamond plate that is made for models.  It is aluminum, but could be darkened with stain.  I am wide open to suggestions on that folks.  It may look really cool with a railing around the perimeter, made from brass.


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## Jack3M (May 1, 2018)

So to do the mockup to get measurements and ideas about the base, it was necessary to make the governor drive sheave.   Popped that out in a few minutes



Then put everything in place and got the general idea of how things fit together, made sure midlines were correct to visual.  This piece of Paduk has been on the shelf for years since I quit making guitars.  Reluctantly I made sawdust.  (my allergies are nuts now).  

Though not shown it is doweled and glued together and clamped.  Tomorrow it can go thru the drum sander.  Kind of exciting photos.  This encompassed hours of miniscule adjustments.  In looking at the plans for the governor, I think I will make a different mount in the middle between the two halves.

Might be too busy to play tomorrow, so probably nothing.  Looks like a beekeeping day.





In looking at this I see I neglected to take the photos of the pieces of wood that was glued between.  Maybe after sanding.


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## Jack3M (May 3, 2018)

Big day, got lots done, everything went well and fast it seems.  Yesterday was sand the base and varnish it.  Today parts started getting fastened down.  

The two bases were installed with Black countersunk wood phillips head screws.  No if you remember I said one of the bases had a flaw, one of the mounting tabs.  So under the crankshaft bearing a hole was drilled thru the entire base and another of the screws installed.  It was slightly proud and had to modify it a touch to assure clearance.  As it was, that side took shims to bring the bearing base/tower to equal heights to prevent binding on the crankshaft itself as the towers were tightened down.  Towers were installed on 4 mm studs that were made and locktited in.   The shimming process took me several hours to figure out, but once it was there, it is like glass.   Photos regarding this portion.


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## Jack3M (May 3, 2018)

Then this afternoon, many set screw holes were drilled and threaded, these included the Cranks to Crankshaft (Only I bolted them clear thru the shaft) and eccentrics.  Got to thinking I should do up the shafts for the eccentrics while we were at this point, this was the metal I had trouble sourcing, 3/16x1/4.  McMaster Carr killed me on the shipping, such is life.  The bolts I used for that were 2.5 mm if anyone is interested.  (I have had metric tools from way back, hardly own any imperial stuff, so metric it is.

Wasn't sure if the cranks should be 180 apart or the same.  Photos I have seen have them most of the time haphazardly, so the idea of balance seemed appropriate in this case so 180 it is.  Then assembled all that on the crankshaft, lined things up and lightly tightened them down so as to not score the crankshaft too badly at this point.  Not sure if I can upload video here or need to upload somewhere else and link it so will do a different post for that.  But, with all the weight and piston rods and eccentrics dragging it still turns smoothly without a lot of effort, and it isn't lubed yet.


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## Jack3M (May 3, 2018)

The link to motion.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpw1k5mXqcE&feature=youtu.be[/ame]


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## Mechanicboy (May 3, 2018)

Crank at 180 degree will not selfstart when the steam engine has double acting cylinders. Better set crank at 90 degree to selfstart.


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## Jack3M (May 4, 2018)

Hmm, now I know, will modify


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## Jack3M (May 4, 2018)

Uh Oh.  Got a major problem.  In upsizing for shrinkage of the metal, I must have gotten too much.  Stuff isn't fitting according to it's plan size.  I will upload photos later to show some of the issues, but this is going to cause a lot of "modifications" to many parts.  In particular, the bases are too long and too wide.  Everything is off by a small amount, but one thing leads to the next thing and so on.  In particular the bellcrank mount for the steam  chest/eccentric isn't wide enough if made by the plans.  By slotting it works, but need to sleep on this one for a bit.  Not pleased, but I guess the challenge is to make it work out.  Make it look like it is right, only a true expert would know, they would have had to build one to notice the issues.  Kind of upset at this point, don't like effing up.  Don't handle failure well, so got to make it work out.  At this point, self starting is a minor issue.

But, this is the hobby, and my lack of experience.  Learning has been done on this one, that is for sure.  Got to looking at my costs for materials so far and we are beyond the price for a kit, heck just in bronze I have $300 invested.  Here's to hoping shiney and fancy looking distracts from the errs.
:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## Jack3M (May 6, 2018)

Well lets try to put this in perspective.  The rails for the cross slides are too short by about 3/8 of inch.  Those all had to be remade and remounted in the rear only (toward flywheel).  Along with this, the cross slide rails are way too far apart even if mounted too much toward the center, which looks odd.  At this point just a pair of teflon spacers that just so happened to be the right thickness (1/8) for now, can make some bushes later.  Specific issues with the red pentagons(?).

Then the mounts for the cylinders, the brackets, will fit, but not sure exactly how to place yet, as the con rod needs lengthened I think, but not assembled enough to tell for sure.  Need to get the top and bottoms on the cylinders as two holes on each end fit those brackets, so they need to be on the correct plane.


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## Anatol (May 6, 2018)

Wow, thanks for posting step by step, and thanks for being upfront about failures/mistakes, its really helpful.


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## Jack3M (May 6, 2018)

My ego taking a huge hit on this one.  I will finish it.  The goal now is just to see if it will work, much less the appearance issues due to open threaded holes.  

Working on it today, the connecting rod needed 3/4 extra length to get the full stroke.  So involved with figuring, testing, trying, redoing, haven't taken a singe update photo.  

I should move this to boo boos and blunders.  LOL.  :fan:

Thank the Lord I didn't go blindly drilling holes according to the plans, I would really be :wall::hDe: ans saying vast numbers of unprintable words.  Here I really thought I was planning correctly by increasing the 5% in the PLA side of things.  Possibly 1% would have been fine.  These parts are so small the shrinkage is negligible, but add 5% and you got a mess.

I am frustrated, but enjoying the challenge now of trying to make it look as good as possible and work properly.  If the lengths and throws are correct in the end, it should work, and work just fine.  I mean, a cylinder is a cylinder and turning things turn, so long as nothing is out of time or hits, should work.  Let us all learn.


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## Herbiev (May 6, 2018)

Remember that there is no such thing as a failure. We just find options that don't work.


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## Jack3M (May 8, 2018)

I will be darned if it didn't run right out of the chute on air....Just one side.  Was so concerned, just blasted thru all of what was necessary.  Will document for you folks as I do the other half.  There were so many little issues.  One, not related to my casting was the valve slide tho made to specs did not fit correctly and had to modify that, but as you can see, it does run.  

It actually runs pretty slow too, this was the immediate startup as you get a few seconds before the compressor comes on, but I got it down to where the valve was just cracked a smidge and the air compressor was able to keep ahead of it at that speed.  Timing was just eyeballed for first shot.  Heck even the set screws aren't tightened down and locktited yet.  

What a relief. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQbQ4_AsU-Q[/ame]


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## ShopShoe (May 9, 2018)

Jack,

That's a very nice runner, and nice to look at as well. I will be following the other half.

Best of Luck 

--ShopShoe


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## Jack3M (May 9, 2018)

Well after all that excitement yesterday, we shall pick up where things went to :fan:.

We were somewhere around, you got to have the cranks 90 degrees off to be a self starter.  Well, making that hole go all the way thru without screwing up the threads in the crank was the challenge.  Therefore, only enough of the shaft was drilled enough to act as a detent, the end of the bolt was made pointed and as it mounted it slid


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## Jack3M (May 9, 2018)

Moving on to the crossslide rails.  This was the first part that needed to be modified due to the sizing issue.  Initially they were too short and the crossslide itself would hit the stanchions.  These were lengthened by about 3/8 inch and mounted further rearward than plans show, but with the 0.983 throw of the con rod it was perplexing.  Of course at this point, the piston rod itself was too short, so nothing seemed correct.

The plastic bushes were removed from the first side and bushes were made for both out of 3/8 brass.  These lathed up quickly.  The rails were then set in  place and checked for both BDC and TDC alignment.  Just one hole was drilled and threaded at a time to maintain the alignment, using a transfer punch.

And, that is as far as I got yesterday.  But running it was the highlight, and still makes me smile thinking on it.


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## Jack3M (May 10, 2018)

Today's update will be short as about 10 photos are somewhere between phone and my email.  But I did get these of the setup that transfers the Eccentric to the steam chest.  This part isn't long enough and I don't want to cast another chunk of bronze to remake them.  Because of the design, the shaft can be moved toward the eccentric and still have bearing surface and align with the steam chest.

The balance of the day was working on the studs for the cylinder and mounting stuff to that, once I get the photos will update.

Interestingly I learned a new trick, you can use a broken tap to make a bottoming tap by just grinding flat carefully.


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## Jack3M (May 10, 2018)

Ah the rest of the photos showed up.  As mentioned earlier the piston rod needed to be lengthened.  Along with that, at the cross slide end, it was threaded a bit more and a lock nut put on as in messing with the other it was determined that the piston could rotate itself and thusly the shaft would turn.  But this first photo shows the added length, the added threading, the locknut, the piston itself, and the O-Ring.  Follow that with the piston and shaft installed and again a view of the completed eccentric bellcrank setup.


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## Jack3M (May 10, 2018)

That step was followed with just a basic put the cylinder on and get the basic idea where BDC and TDC were best located.  Since the mount holes have been upsized to 3 mm those were the first pair drilled and tapped.  To get them square to the steam chest, two parallels were used, one flush against the valve face, and the other of the proper thickness to align the already drilled holes from the cylinder head.  Marked with a transfer punch and first one drilled and tapped, then the other.  This allowed the head to be held firmly in place to mark the rest of the holes.  Of note, the the piston was in place for the initial marking and drilling to help center in the bore more accurately.  The same was done with the gland packing, along with the O-Ring for the rod, drilled and tapped 2 mm as well as the exhaust port after making the gasket.  Finally the rear mount is attached and trial fit.  The drilling process will be duplicated on the head/top part.


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## Jack3M (May 11, 2018)

Locating the mounts to the base and aligning and checking for proper height.  Seems all 4 of these mounts are wrong, looks like they will need to be remade so they look proper, they are off to one side on both.  But for now, I want to just get it all going and then refit what is necessary.  Not even drilling the base holes for head end on this second cylinder for now, no motion during movement so should be okay for testing purposes.


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## Jack3M (May 11, 2018)

Moving on to the steam chest now, and this is one place a modification was made to the plans as casting in the bump for the end of the shaft sucked.  So, a bushing was made to fit that end of the steam chest.  First the 1/8 hole, then 1/4 for the gland.  Drill and tap the opposite side for the end and of course the gland fastening.  Not hard to do, just time consuming and needs to be accurate.


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## bouch (May 11, 2018)

Jack3M said:


> Wasn't sure if the cranks should be 180 apart or the same.  Photos I have seen have them most of the time haphazardly, so the idea of balance seemed appropriate in this case so 180 it is.  Then assembled all that on the crankshaft, lined things up and lightly tightened them down so as to not score the crankshaft too badly at this point.  Not sure if I can upload video here or need to upload somewhere else and link it so will do a different post for that.  But, with all the weight and piston rods and eccentrics dragging it still turns smoothly without a lot of effort, and it isn't lubed yet.



Nope, 180 is "wrong".

When you have them at 180, both cylinders will be on "dead center" at the same time.  in that case, the engine can't always self-start.

You want them set at 90 degrees to each other.  That way one is at mid-stroke when the other is at dead center.  Applying steam/air and the engine will start running without needed the flywheel to be pushed over by hand.

There's nothing to say you *CAN'T* have it at 180, if that's what you want aesthetically, but they really should be at 90.


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## Jack3M (May 12, 2018)

bouch said:


> Nope, 180 is "wrong".
> 
> When you have them at 180, both cylinders will be on "dead center" at the same time.  in that case, the engine can't always self-start.
> 
> ...


That has been modified and shown in one of the more recent posts.


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## Jack3M (May 12, 2018)

Well this is the ending.  The steam chest was drilled for the mount studs to the cylinder using the top plate to mark and drill slightly oversized holes thru the entire chest.  Then as an assembly transfer punched into one spot on the cylinder, that drilled and tapped (2.5 mm).  Tightened that down so the rest of the holes could be located with the transfer punch.  Balance of holes drilled and threaded.  Assembly left open to set the timing.  

But, the device that creates/holds the bellcrank was so far off I had to make a completely new one.  (I will be re-making another for the other side as well for appearances).  Timing was set, the top put on and the fitting for the intake installed with gasket.  Swapped the air attachment from the cylinder we have seen work and tried out the other side, which probably is better than the first side, it seemed to be able to run slower.  

I don't have a boiler big enough to run this even for 1 minute after seeing how much air it needs to run.  Wouldn't mind hearing from others the size of theirs, currently I have a PMR #2.  

At this point I call my project a successful task.  It is intended to remake the cylinder mounts, slightly differently so they look more appropriate.  Of course some piping, oiler and so on but those are something every steam engine should have.


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## Cogsy (May 12, 2018)

It is pretty! Time for a video at some point I think...


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## bouch (May 13, 2018)

Jack3M said:


> That has been modified and shown in one of the more recent posts.



I'm a bit emabarrased and sorry about that.  I haven't been online for a few weeks, and when I looked at this thread, it showed that post as the last one posted, so I thought I was replying to the latest post in the thread.  Now I look and there are two more pages of posts. Dunno what happened there.


Glad to see that the engine has already finished.  Looks great, nice work, Be proud of what you've done

It makes me want to break my "Single Victoria" out of the S.T. Shrink wrap and start working on it.  (I won't need to finish a few projects first!)


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## Jack3M (May 13, 2018)

Cogsy said:


> It is pretty! Time for a video at some point I think...


I will, need to make an intake manifold, and get a bigger compressor or use an old tank I have as a storage tank.  Thanks


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## Jack3M (May 14, 2018)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S8raBCdrUw&feature=youtu.be[/ame]


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## Herbiev (May 14, 2018)

Great looking engine and a smooth runner. Thanks for sharing.


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## Jack3M (May 24, 2018)

On steam.  Background noise is the propane torch.  With 1" bore and 2" stroke, I am surprised I got as long running as I got, maybe with 2 torches I can get enough heat to keep it going slow?  Worth a try today, later


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## Herbiev (May 24, 2018)

Great work.


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## Cogsy (May 24, 2018)

Very cool indeed.


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