# I love to negotiate....and you should tooLOL



## Cedge (Apr 20, 2008)

Part of my birthday booty was a nice new portable stereo for my shop, to replace the one that finally died. I can't complain... it lasted through more than 20 years of daily use. My wife picked up a new 380 watt unit at Wally World for a "C" note. We put it together only to find that the left bass channel was non existent, so back it went. No hassles and cash in hand, we left the store.

We decided to stop by Circuit City to see what they had. There on the shelf was a Sony 530 watt unit, but the price was a bit more than double what the original purchase was. I figured I'd put some of my toy money with the refund and make the upgrade. Nope... out of stock.

I asked what sort of deal they could make on the display model that I'd been playing with. The girl disappeared and came back with a quote of $150.00 without the box. I said it was a deal if everything was there, including the warranty. She assured me it was, however they soon learned that the remote was missing, along with the instructions. I offered them $100.00 with a warranty and was turned down, but they counter offered with another $20.00 reduction, making it a drop from $209 to $129.00. 

You'd be amazed at how often a big box retail store will negotiate. I've bought high end cameras where they not only applied online specials but added on an in house reduction just to cinch a sale. All it takes is asking the simple question, "is that the best deal we can make?" The camera deal saved me a couple of hundred dollars and the stereo was a nice $80.00 windfall. If you compare the $235.00 price, over at Best Buy, I did even better.

Don't be shy.... I even used this technique with Travers tools and saved several hundred bucks on my recent purchase of the Super X3 milling machine..... enough to pay for the new power feed (well... one of them) some of the tooling upgrades it required.

Yup... I do love to horse trade.

Steve


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## zeusrekning (Apr 20, 2008)

This is something I wish I could do better. I am slowly getting better but I'm still in the bend over and spread em stage of negotion. But at least now I know who to bring along. 
Tim


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## snowman (Apr 21, 2008)

lol

my birthday booty is a little different than yours, but trust me, there are negotiations that go on in order for that to happen as well.

a stereo in the shop sure is a nice addition, i just wish i could remember to shut mine off.


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## BobWarfield (Apr 21, 2008)

snowman  said:
			
		

> a stereo in the shop sure is a nice addition, i just wish i could remember to shut mine off.



I had just gotten all tucked up warm and cozy in bed the other night with a good novel, when all of a sudden I heard the compressor start up downstairs. The wife looked over at me with an irritated frown, I looked back with a hint of pleading, and then I climbed back out into the cold cruel world and wandered down to shut the darned thing off.  

BW


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## Brass_Machine (Apr 22, 2008)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> I had just gotten all tucked up warm and cozy in bed the other night with a good novel, when all of a sudden I heard the compressor start up downstairs. The wife looked over at me with an irritated frown, I looked back with a hint of pleading, and then I climbed back out into the cold cruel world and wandered down to shut the darned thing off.
> 
> BW



I know that look at too well!

Eric


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## Cedge (Apr 22, 2008)

Brass
Don't we all....Don't we all? LOL

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Apr 22, 2008)

I don't have that problem at all, just the opposite.
My little compressor had been in deep storage for about a year, while I built my workshop and got it all settled down. Then I needed the compressor for a job, plugged it in and the damned thing wouldn't start. I spent an hour checking all the electrics out, until I realised it was still full of compressed air. The auto cutout was stopping it working, released the air and away it went.

To get back to Steves original post about being a Scrooge.

I am going to be negotiating soon for all new iron. My trick is to take along catalogues of competitors products, supposedly to compare features. I can guarantee that you come away with a lot of little thrown in extras, vices, collets and maybe a power feed, just to get your custom. Even though you have already made up in your mind that theirs is the product you want.

I did this when I bought my last new car, I got thrown in, a detachable towbar, a full chrome body trim kit, side window deflectors, a rear compartment rubber protector tray plus an upgrade on the radio/cd player, all worth about £500. If they want the sale, they will offer goodies to make it happen. There is always room to negotiate, why should they have all the profit.

John


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## DickDastardly40 (Apr 22, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> I am going to be negotiating soon for all new iron.



John,

I would be interested in your thought processes about how you will replace what you have and which products you are looking at when you get around to casting your new workshop in stone. Are you thinking of buying brand new or new to you? 

I have a few catalogues lying around and sometimes idly browse building a 'fantasy workshop'. I think possibly the major deciding factors in the real world have to be space, budget and intended application. 

It is always nice to spend vicariously by other persons retail therapy.

Al


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## Bogstandard (Apr 22, 2008)

Al,

I am now looking to bring my workshop more up to date, plus allow me to go into a slightly better production setup.

I was looking for machinery that was within my budget to begin with, as I have said before, my workshop has to pay for itself. So armed with a mental wad of cash, I looked for iron that would fulfill my needs, but still be affordable, plus a change in tooling would be required. I also took into account a rough figure what my machinery would bring with all the tooling included.

This is the lathe that I think I will eventually end up with.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/crusader_lathe.htm

My original choice of miller was this.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/626_turret_mill.htm

This is the one I am now contemplating.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/836_turret_mill.htm

I am hoping that I will have about £10K to play with, that includes what I will get for my old machinery. So what is left over will pay for any other bits I need, like a small blast cabinet, power hacksaw and maybe even a new surface grinder, a decent silent compressor, plus of course all the retooling that will be required. But it will mean a complete redesign of my shop, maybe even taking out the partition wall, which will give me another 4ft in length. So my mate will have his work cut out doing all that.

I expect to lose about three months of making while all this is done.

So now you have it, Bogs enters the 21st century. But it will be heartbreaking to see my old iron go, we have been making music together for a long time now. Soon I will be singing a new tune. 
When will all this take place, I have no idea, they haven't got stocks of the machines that I want, but I hope to be making christmas presents on them.

John


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## DickDastardly40 (Apr 22, 2008)

The UK players such as Chester, which are your preference, Warco, Engineers Toolroom et al seem to have similar but slightly different product line ups and features. I'm sure you'll have all the relevant facts to hand as to which is the best deal for your needs before you sign on the dotted line.

The turret mill certainly seems value as it has the DRO included and it is vari-speed.

Your budget seems healthy to me, but I suppose you have to figure reasonable re-tool costs. Are you already 3 phase?

Apropos the thread, have you entered into any negotiations regarding discount for multiple purchases yet?

Questions, questions, questions, sorry for being nosey, no need for answers.

Al


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## Bogstandard (Apr 22, 2008)

Al,

The turret mill will be 240 volt, plus it will have 3 axis DRO. To me 2 axis is a waste of space, the lathe as well, that will have 3 axis. Remember, I will be doing production on these machines, so that will have to be the way I go.

I went to their showroom late last year and they were talking about 'doing a deal' without me even trying, and that was just when I was looking for a lathe and 626 miller. I will be going back with an order for nearly three times as much.
Warco do very similar machines, but not quite up to the same spec and quality of finish. Chester score because they have their own quality control factory in China. Plus they are only 40 mins drive away, so any problems, they are within quick striking range. 
I would recommend them any day, after having had dealings with them since they were in nothing more than a lockup in their old location.

Don't get me wrong, as and when I am ready to start dealing, if the opposition have new models with the same or better specs, I will be looking at them as well.

I am roughly calculating on £2k for tooling. When you consider 25 QCT holders will come to £350-£400, plus a couple of new chucks and backplates, and a full set of metric 5c collets (Warco will be getting that order), it soon goes, and that is just for the lathe. The miller won't be as bad, as what I already have will fit, RT and dividing head, maybe a new vice, it depends on the quality of the one they give with it. I know the quality of the collet set they give with it, I have been using one for many years, and it is very good.

So at the moment I am in limbo. Once they have cleared the decks from the Harrogate show (about July), I will be back to the showroom with my wad, ready to do some dealing.

John


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## rickharris (Apr 22, 2008)

I bought my mini lathe from Chester they seemed very good to deal with - responded well to questions and delivered very promptly. The Chinese lathe was a bit hit and miss in its assembly but a couple of days taking it apart and reassembling more carefully has given me a useful tool.


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## Cedge (Apr 22, 2008)

Rick
Once you've got one of these little Chinese lathes dialed in, it's easy to get attached to them. I've learned what mine will do and what it doesn't like, so it gives me what I ask as long as it's within reason. They aren't for everyone, but for those of us who have tamed them, they become a treat to use.

John
It sounds like your already crowded bolt hole is going to be bursting at the seams when you're done. For me, the negotiation is just part of the fun. I did it as part of my job it for 25 years, so it's just a natural thing. I look forward to following your exploits.

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Apr 22, 2008)

Steve,

It is going to break my heart to get rid of so much.

The problem is, there is such a lot of it out of date now, replaced by electronic gizmos.

To get rid of, 12" high precision vertical micrometer plus matching DTI stand, and a 2ft precision ball bearing height gauge. All metrology instruments. No one wants them any more, but there is some beautiful cast iron in them. I have a set of very high precision Mitutoyo dial bore gauges (3 separate units from I think 1mm to 7mm), again met lab stuff and still available, last time I looked, about £8k. That is just on the surface, goodness knows what is in deep storage.

If it can't be used regularly, it's got to go.

That is called progress.

John


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## Cedge (Apr 22, 2008)

John 
I owned a shop that rebuilt large hydraulic machines and we also maintained a large fleet of semi trailers... those big boxes behind large lorries. The place had a very wide variety of tooling, although we never did any machining in house. When we sold out to another company, they had no use for the stuff, so it went up for auction. 

I managed to grab a number of items for my own use, but 99% of it was sold off. It was a bit like watching old friends leaving for the last time. I'd personally christened all of the tools with my own sweat and blood at various times in the past. Today my peg boards are loaded with things that I may never really get to use again, but I'm hard pressed to get rid of them. The good news is that I do use most of them more than not.

Yup... been there too. A good bottle of brandy might be the order of the day when the old lathe leaves.

Steve


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## DickDastardly40 (Apr 23, 2008)

John

As ever a considered reply to my inconsequential questions, I look forward to seeing the outcome of your spending and the creations they produce.

I hope the next custodians of your treasure look after and use it as you have done. 



			
				Cedge  said:
			
		

> I'd personally christened all of the tools with my own sweat and blood at various times in the past. Today my peg boards are loaded with things that I may never really get to use again, but I'm hard pressed to get rid of them.



Funny how 'things' obtain sentimental value, I have an EPNS tea spoon on my work key ring filched from the wardrooom (officer's mess) which I've had for 20+ years, though that gets used several times a day and is now out of calibration as a small flat has developed on the tip. 

Regarding Blood sweat and tears, I had a 'smoky room' experience whan my first ship was sunk as a torpedo target in the early 1990s. I'd spent 5 years on board keeping it going, making/bodging stuff sometimes with complete seat of the pants engineering, to see it go in one fell swoop; I was quite sad.  

Al


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## Bogstandard (Apr 23, 2008)

Al,

I wouldn't say 'looked after' the machines are covered in oil residue, but mechanically they are kept in perfect condition, one slight glitch and they are put right, no carrying on until there is time, it is fixed on the spot. Except for my tailstock, that is going to be a post on its own, how to get rid of 70 years of wear. It has to be done before it is sold.

I am wondering whether to have people submit their CV's when considering selling my machines. In the right hands they will give a further lifetime of use.

But enough said on this, don't want to hijack Steves post.

John


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## Cedge (Apr 23, 2008)

John
Don't sweat any hijacking... this thread began to far off topic to avoid it...LOL It probably ought to have had a Tool Gloat sub-title added anyway....(grin)

Carry on laddy
Steve


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## Harold Lee (Apr 23, 2008)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> I had just gotten all tucked up warm and cozy in bed the other night with a good novel, when all of a sudden I heard the compressor start up downstairs. The wife looked over at me with an irritated frown, I looked back with a hint of pleading, and then I climbed back out into the cold cruel world and wandered down to shut the darned thing off.
> 
> BW



When I read your post I laughed and read it to my wife. She said "That sounds familiar!" My problem is when it goes off at 3:00AM and wakes us both up. Then I have to decide whether to go down and turn it off or go directly to the dog house :big:

Harold


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## Bogstandard (Apr 23, 2008)

Al, 

Now that Steve has given me free reign in this post.

I carried with me around the world, my original issue 1 pint ceramic tea pisspot mug. On my last posting, six months before discharge, some barsteward drilled a hole in the bottom of it when I left it in the crewroom. After that tea never tasted the same, and I succumbed to coffee instead. 
I even used to use my original issue cutlery when I left the service. But they were lost in a house move, but I think it was my wife being fed up with not having matching cutlery when she laid the table. Again, food never tasted the same.
Funny how we get attached to trivial items.

John


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## Cedge (Apr 23, 2008)

John
I'd be careful about calling The Missus trivial... :fan:...LOL

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Apr 23, 2008)

Steve,

I must put my brain into gear before putting my fingers into action.

Good and bad news by the way, looks like my old lathe is going before I thought it would.

John


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