# My first lathe tool set



## Kermit (Feb 6, 2009)

I had more problems with choosing a set of tools for my lathe than I've ever had deciding anything! There are SO many choices. I stuck with MSC to limit my choices(a little) and finally decided on insert holding tools instead of solid ground HSS. Got enough going on with this new hobby without adding possible flubs from greenhorn grinding jobs on my tools. I wouldn't know where my problems were. The way I was using my tool to cut or the way I had ground the angles. Too many variables! 

Enough talk!












I think 1/2 inch shanks were the proper size judging with the eyeball. Anyone else see something wrong with the height that I don't see?






The final thing that amazed me was the wood they sent as a tool holder. Cheap tool holder for an American company but look at the number and tightness of those growth rings! I haven't seen anything like that in a long time. Old growth forest for sure. Not a fast growing hybrid like you see in the lumber stores these days.






Always shouting it to the world,
Kermit 
(I'm easily entertained ;D


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## Maryak (Feb 7, 2009)

Kermit,

Unless the tool is shown relative to a centre in the headstock or tailstock then its difficult to say if it's correct, over or under.

If it's over - machine a bit off the bottom of the holder.

If its under - shim up to centre height.

Hope this helps ??? ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## rake60 (Feb 7, 2009)

Nice set of tools!

Checking the perfect center is easy.
Chuck up a piece of stock and take a light cut across the face.
If it leaves a high spot at center the tools needs to be milled or shimmed.

*Or NOT...*

O.D. turning tools cut better slightly above center while I.D. tools
cut best slightly below center.

Now the amount of the offset is very much dependent on the material 
being worked.

In other words, there is *NO* perfect answer.
You work with what you have and listen to the clues the material is
giving you. 

Rick


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## Kermit (Feb 7, 2009)

Oh goodness, by eyeball I mean I picked the right shank - 1/2 inch. A 3/8 or 5/8 would have been way off center - to these old eyeballs.

Shimming up the shank of the tool to bring it up to center I understand in concept. When you say "take a bit off the bottom of the holder" do you mean the piece with the hold down bolts around the top? 

How do I take a bit off without a mill?  Asking for a favor at work I suppose could be done. 


Should have the lathe setup on its new bench and ready for me to fumble around and puzzle over by the end of the weekend. Maybe. The youngest is having his twelve birthday party this weekend and has some friends invited for a sleep over. 

Hope the wife can keep 'em corralled while I "play" 


The biggest kid in the house,
Kermit


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## Maryak (Feb 7, 2009)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> Shimming up the shank of the tool to bring it up to center I understand in concept. When you say "take a bit off the bottom of the holder" do you mean the piece with the hold down bolts around the top?



Kermit, when I said holder, I meant the part you are calling the shank.

My terminology:

Part on the lathe with tool clamping bolts - Tool Post

Part in the tool post which holds the tool - Tool Holder

Part on the end of the tool holder which does the cutting - Tool Bit or Tool Insert when using replaceable carbide tips.

To machine the bottom of the tool holder, (if required), hold in 4 jaw chuck as shown below:






No Mill required.

Hope this helps. ???

Best Regards
Bob

EDIT - The best book IMHO for someone starting out is "The Amateurs Lathe" by LH Sparey. ISBN 0-85242-288-1


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 7, 2009)

Kermit nice set of tools and made in USA 
I personally like my Warner sets I deal with the manufacturer directly and his sets come with an insert for each tool and a spare . They are in a plastic box with form fit foam. 
Tin


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## ksouers (Feb 7, 2009)

Kermit,
That looks like a really nice set.

At some point in the near future you might want to consider replacing that four-way with a quick-change tool post. It'll add much great flexibility to your tool holding. There's nothing wrong with the four-way, the quick-change just adds a great deal of convenience.

In the mean time, as long as you are using the four-way, you might want to clamp up a short piece of square stock opposite your tool. It'll stiffen up the tool post a little bit when you lock down your tool holder. I haven't found the four-way to be much good for holding more than one tool anyway. It seems the unused tools eventually interfere with something; headstock, tailstock or worse, my hands.


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 7, 2009)

I second the motion on the QCTP much easier to set tool height.

I like useing a 6" rule to set tool height for turning just pinch the tool between the bit and work and set tool height so rule is vertical.

Remember when possible to set up tools so any deflection pulls the tool away from the work rather than digging in.
Tin


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## Kermit (Feb 7, 2009)

I agree about the QCTP just have a problem with prices on the QCTP. No biggie, just something I have to "plan" for!

As for chucking up anything right now, I think the closeup pics above have you fooled. Here is my Lathe right now.






Next week peeps, next week.
Kermit


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## jack404 (Feb 7, 2009)

1 vote quick change tool post

1 vote The Amateurs Lathe book

QCTP ..LMS sold me mine for my mini lathe and got a locally sold set for the 20" ( hence now buying tools in the US)

love em, both are adjustable height versions so to centre is a few twists at most

Bob,.......   love the CAD 

cheers

jack


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## ksouers (Feb 7, 2009)

Kermit,
You don't necessarily have to BUY a QCTP. You can make one ;D

Gives a chance to work with machine, as well. It's be a little harder with just a lathe but it can be done.


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## Kermit (Feb 7, 2009)

I have thought of the getting a rotating/indexing rig to give me some small amount of horizontal milling capacity on the lathe, but I'm afraid of damaging the bearings in the head with any kind of REAL milling on my new little lathe tool.

I suppose anything can be done given the time and motivation but I have the mill planned for about 1 or two years in the future anyway.   and since time seems to just fly by in eyeblink at my age....... :-\

I'm just so damn eager to get there that I've been deliberately holding myself in check to prevent the overzealous, wreckless, fullspeed ahead atitude that has created nothing but burst ballons of most of my dreams. Determination and planning have a place, but the place is boring, boring, boring if you don't have other things to do. I've got LOTS of other things to do. ;D Too many things to do. :-\  How'm I ever gonna get all that done.  :'(

Opps, I did it again
Kermit


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## itowbig (Feb 7, 2009)

that lathe looks a lot like my lathe. i got qctp and i like them. i also made my own but have to shave some metal off so it works better( a little to thick)


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## Philjoe5 (Feb 7, 2009)

Nice set of tools Kermit. As I recall you own the 9x30 Lathemaster? If so I think with use you'll migrate to the smaller sized toolbits like 3/8" and 1/4". Those sizes give you a little more wiggle room for working in tight areas, especially when working between centers. But for now, you've got chips to make 

Cheers,
Phil


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## TinkerJohn (Feb 8, 2009)

Kermit, 

QCTP all the way! You will never regret it and quickly forget the money spent on it. You and I have the same lathe and youll have to make an adapter for the Phase II or knock off quick change. 

Bob Warfiled has an excellent page on doing just that. Takes about an hour, easy to do, works great and you dont have to modify anything on your lathe. The link is: http://www.cnccookbook.com/MTLatheQCTP.htm

---TinkerJohn---


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## deverett (Feb 11, 2009)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> I haven't found the four-way to be much good for holding more than one tool anyway. It seems the unused tools eventually interfere with something; headstock, tailstock or worse, my hands.



Both my lathes have 4 tool turrets. On the Myford, I made 2 a la GHT - one for steel turning tools, the other for non-ferrous turning tools. Admittedly, I can only get 3 tools in the turrets if I use a facing tool, but don't remember having a problem with interference. I keep any spare tools that I am likely to use with the correct shims, so I don't lose too much time if I have to change tools.

Dave Lammas in ME 1990s described a 3-tool turret to overcome the interference thing (for those that experienced it).

I am not saying the 4 tool turret is better, it is just that I have them fitted and I consider it would be too expensive to buy 2 toolposts and all the required holders. Yes, I could make them, but workshop time is limited and precious.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## BillH (Feb 12, 2009)

Just buy Lathemasters QCTP, it's an AXA style one. It is made for the 8x14, I think the 9x30 has same exact issue as the 8x14?


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## Kermit (Feb 12, 2009)

Enco has the piston and the wedge type "Phase II" QCTP on sale at a pretty good price right now. Lathemasters Tool is unknown to me, I mean as to who makes it. I DO trust him however NOT to sell bunk. Does anyone have a story about the PHASE II brand QCTP?

And what is the issue you speak of Bill? Something about the post it mounts on not fitting the cross-slide member? Or has to be modified? I don't remember(happens a lot lately) 

just a drop in the bucket for the things I need to understand,
Kermit


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## BillH (Feb 12, 2009)

It is a direct fit for the Lathemaster. I have a Phase II AXA on my southbend, the wedge type. Lathemasters is also a wedge, and it is IDENTICAL to the phase II. If you ask me, it is made in the same factory.
The issue is the height of the cross slide, many tools cannot sit low enough to hit the center line, so they removed some metal from the bottom of the tool holders. The 9x30 may not have that problem. 
Just ask Bob about it.


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## Kermit (Feb 12, 2009)

Okay then, I knew I remembered their was "a problem" but that's about all the old memory could tell me... 

Now I just have to decide what else I need in the way of tooling.

I have a little list.

Boring bar set (not import)

Cut off tool(s)

1/4" and 3/4" straight flute reamers  (for starters, I've already got plans for those two)

I'm sure I'm missing something I'll need in the first day or two. :-\

Don't know enough to know what questions to ask at this point. I need to get my hands dirty first I think.

Micrometers - Depth, and taper type I'd need to find a good sale first.


Kermit


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## ksouers (Feb 12, 2009)

Kermit,
Check out Craig's List for tools. Look for estate sales listing machine tools. I've managed to make some great finds this way.


Save some money on the depth mic and make yourself a depth gauge. It's just a wire running through a piece of flat material. Harbor Freight has dial indicators on sale every once in a while for about $10. It's close enough accurate for the work we do. You can make a collar for the DI to measure how long the wire sticks out of the flat, viola, depth mic.

Check out some of Marv's posts about tools he's made. Lots of good stuff.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=985.msg6712#msg6712
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=3859.0

There's lots of great info on making tools here, just search around. 


Kevin


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## mklotz (Feb 13, 2009)

If you want to get obsessive about accuracy with your home-built depth gage, you can build this...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1600.msg11929#msg11929


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## Kermit (Feb 13, 2009)

Thanks Marv, I think the first tool I'll make will be the depth gauge Kevin linked me to.

This place is the greatest waste of time I ever stumbled across, Just Perfect,
Kermit


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## BillH (Feb 13, 2009)

Should buy tooling as you need them. If I was to buy everything I wanted, I'd need a million $$$ Oh wait, make that billions if you throw in the Air Park and collection of WW2 airplanes and a G5...


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## pete (Feb 13, 2009)

If it were me and with a great deal of hind site I'd buget for some how to books. Google TEE PUBLISHING, LINDSAY PUBLICATIONS is another, South bends "how to run a lathe" And south bends "projects book are both very good, The amatures workshop, My personal favorite, George Tomas's "The Model Engineer's Workshop Manual" is very good, simplified explanations for a lot of some what complex machining. Not just the how but the why you should do it this way. All 3 of guy lautards "the machinist bedside reader books are good, Plus the workshop practice series books pertaining to lathe and mill work. None of these books will answer all of your questions but for what you don't understand, Well that's what boards like this one are for. There are no STUPID questions. If you don't know then you don't know.

After you read, ask enough questions you'll get to the point of what you have between your ears will become the most powerfull tool in your shop. Machining can be a very complex hobby and no one will ever know it all. That's what keeps it interesting, There's always something more and new to learn. Try and explain this to some one that has no interest in machining and most get a glazed look in their eye's. If you have to explain it, then they probably won't get it anyway. Have fun and be SAFE. SAFETY GLASSES ALWAYS. I wish you luck, and you sound like the type of person that's going to love this hobby.

Pete


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## kennyd (Feb 13, 2009)

Kermit,

Are they "Made in USA" brand from MSC? About $160 or so?


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## Kermit (Feb 21, 2009)

Sorry kennyd

I have failed to check this thread in a quite a few days!

If I'm understanding your question, Yes. These are the ones of which you speak! They were on sale in a MSC metal working flyer for something like 66 or 67% off. It was a one page flyer and came with another order. 

I came here to add a question about another tool I just got because I don't have any idea what I'll use it for. I didn't have time to give it a good look before getting it. (the price was right).

What I thought was a drill chuck on a 2MT taper mount is something else!! It rotates freely on a bearing just like a live center..  ???  I've had it for about a week now and after a search of books and the like can't find any mention of how or where it might be used, excepting as maybe a work holder of some sort.


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## steamer (Feb 21, 2009)

Sounds like a live tailstock chuck. And item like that is nice for supporting work with no center, or delicate work.

Do you have a picture?. That would help pin down the ID maybe.

Dave


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## Kermit (Feb 21, 2009)

didn't take time to edit or anything. The piece farthest away from the chuck rotates AND fits my 2MT tailstock - So......needle pulling thread....it's a work holder then? Maybe for holding drill bits while REsharpening...?


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## Kermit (Feb 21, 2009)

I found my answer in part right here, today, in another topic.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4220.msg43998#msg43998

Thanks for your order pull up please,

Kermit


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## kennyd (Feb 21, 2009)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> Sorry kennyd
> 
> I have failed to check this thread in a quite a few days!
> 
> If I'm understanding your question, Yes. These are the ones of which you speak! They were on sale in a MSC metal working flyer for something like 66 or 67% off. It was a one page flyer and came with another order.



Thanks Kermit, any chance you have the part # or MCS #?


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## Kermit (Feb 22, 2009)

The website is down this morning so I had to look it up in the BIG book. They ain't kidding either. That's a big book alright.

Page 727

1/2 shank - MSC# 78641081 (Made in USA)  #88510086 (Borite)

I have the Made in USA version.

Kermit


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## kennyd (Feb 22, 2009)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> The website is down this morning so I had to look it up in the BIG book. They ain't kidding either. That's a big book alright.
> 
> Page 727
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for taking the time to post that :bow:


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## Kermit (Apr 10, 2009)

I added to my tooling with some HSS turning tools of the Very small and EXTREMELY small variety. I'm sure someone will correct me as to what is and isn't small when it comes to tooling. 

The Mag Base posable arm and indicator were sold as a pair but the indicator doesn't fit the hole provided in the arm. The hole is already occupying every bit of available space so no chance of enlarging it. I managed to find a solution using an Exacto blade holder. It's a force fit in the hole but will do the job.

I'm proud of the cutoff tool holder and blade. From Lathemasters and by far the best bargain out there now on parting tooling. I'm guessing I'll have to come up with similiar devices to hold my 1/4 and 1/8 inch HSS tool bits.

Also have a set of 3 machinists squares on the way and picked up some reamers and micrometers a few weeks back. Got a drill press and a small 5x7 band saw this month as well. The shop will be full in no time ;D

Kermit



























A prospect for a future engine of the not so small variety.


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## kvom (Apr 10, 2009)

If you want a nice, cheap, convenient depth gauge you could do worse than this one:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=24521746&PMAKA=SM368-7031

Gail put me onto this. Got one last week.


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## Kermit (Apr 10, 2009)

THATS sweet. Thanks kvom.  Even at the standard price its a good deal for a 1 inch indicator.


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## Kermit (Apr 15, 2009)

Corrected pic made. 


DO NOT USE TOP RAKE ON BRASS CUTTING TOOLS

Thanks to the comments below.


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## Kermit (Apr 16, 2009)

Gonna need something to hold these guys.






is my first idea, but during the time it took to post, I think something with less offset would be even better.

Listening for the echo,
Kermit


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## mklotz (Apr 16, 2009)

I don't use a QCTP but on my homemade tool holders, I use a 1/2" slot and just make up L or U-shaped shims for the <1/2" tools. The "arms" of the L or U are sized to bring the tool directly under the hold-down screws.

Don't know but you might want to consider something along those lines.


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## steamer (Apr 17, 2009)

Hey Kermit,

The tools you have pictured sure do have a lot of top rake.

Usually with a brass tool the rake is 0 or even negative, never positive.

Positive rake on brass usually results in grabbing. Pulling the tool into the work....with the result of ripping the part out of the chuck or breaking the tool or both....sometimes this is rapidly followed by a "costume change".... ;D

A tool with rake more along the lines of the one shown for corner breaking would be better for brass.

Especially if you have a QCTP which does not impart any rake to the tool to begin with. 

Your holders will work just fine if your not REALLY hogging stock off...for that make sure your tools are mounted directly in the post and as close to the tool post as possible to maximize rigidity.


Dave


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## Kermit (Apr 18, 2009)

I found the pictures for the tools in a book

here is the books title page.


Books, books books...what'd ya expect from an owl.  

Kermit


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## arnoldb (Apr 18, 2009)

Kermit, it's funny how books disagree... I'm also an Owl (Read a lot  ) and even _worse_ a parrot - I repeat anything ;D

I have to agree with Steamer though, the bit shown in that picture for brass is wrong - brass needs a 0 to negative rake. I also have to "disagree" with the thread cutting tools shown, but this is (pretty much) personal opinion. It will work (well) if the angle is compensated for the rake on the tool (i.e. a very slightly wider angle), otherwise the thread you cut will be at too narrow an angle. More experienced machinists than myself might prove me wrong though 

Regards, Arnold.


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## mklotz (Apr 18, 2009)

The best advice would be to get your lathe set up, grab a fistful of tool blanks, grind some shapes and use them to turn some simple forms. You'll learn more about what works and what doesn't in your first eight hours of turning than you'll likely ever learn from studying old texts. If some of the tools you grind don't work well, regrind them. That's the beauty of HSS.

There's just no substitute for hands-on experience in this hobby.


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## steamer (Apr 18, 2009)

Kermit,

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4329.msg45224#msg45224 

Try this thread....there's an attachment on one of my posts you may find useful.


Dave


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## Kermit (Apr 19, 2009)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> The best advice would be to get your lathe set up, ...
> There's just no substitute for hands-on experience in this hobby.



On THAT note I called my son yesterday and lit a fire of guilt under his lazy butt.  Hopefully he and his roommate and their landlords offspring will all be here this evening to have bench capping party.

The lathe is going to be sat on her throne. I just can't do it with only the wife for help.

(Kermit puts a hand to his ear - He's sure he heard a brass fanfare starting as he typed those words)

Now you poor fools will have to suffer the outrages of my freshly mangled metal objects. I'll be calling them parts, due to lack of experience. 8)


HEY FOOZER - you'er about to be out newbied!
Kermit


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## mklotz (Apr 19, 2009)

Once you get the lathe mounted, you'll want to get it leveled, i.e., un-twisted. This can be a fiddly procedure but don't let it deter you from making some chips and getting some practice. Things don't have to be clinically organized for you to make some practice cuts and get a feel for how things work. Don't let preparation interfere with practice.

Besides, a heavy lathe on a wooden bench is going to deform the bench. Hopefully, not much but enough to matter at the level your micrometer can measure. When you get around to leveling, I would check it every week for a month after the initial setup and every month for a year thereafter. Since it's wood, it might be worth recording the temperature and humidity along with the alignment results to give you a feel for how things are affected by the ambient conditions.

Do you have access to a sensitive machinist's level? If not, you may want to start thinking about where you might borrow one. Since you're in Houston, you may want to connect with the local HSM club

http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/

There's probably someone there who could help you out.


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## Kermit (Apr 19, 2009)

Thank you for the suggestions Marv.

I have a "date" of sorts with a machinist friend of mine from work. He has promised to help me with any alignment issues and after the lathe is mounted I expect I can have him visit me in the coming week sometime.

 ;D


Did I hear someone say "'Bout damn time"? 8) I need to tell her to quit reading over my shoulder 
Kermit


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## mklotz (Apr 19, 2009)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> Did I hear someone say "'Bout damn time"?



I didn't realize I said it that loudly.


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## Kermit (Apr 26, 2009)

And after the long wait.


It will take a 1/4" bite out of this tube of 1018 and has not chattered or shivered. If I go to fast the shavings turn yellow and blue. I think that is telling me to slow down my feed. No coolant just a squirt of wd40 every once in a while when I clean away the little slinky spring coils. Should the metal break and give more/smaller chips vs these infinite coils?

Don't know - but it cuts smooth and quiet. 










Kermit


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## Maryak (Apr 27, 2009)

Kermit,

At last Eh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




With steel, you need to have a chip breaker ground on your tool to get chips rather than long spirals of swarf.

Hope this helps ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## Kermit (May 2, 2009)

Well, after TWO clean ups on the lathe from two cutting sessions.

I have to say...seeing as it has caused no harm and the cutting angle and action remain the same in both...Iprefer the Loooong stringy curls. When I need to clear something away, a light tug from behind pulls ALL of the metal off the cross slide base. When it's time to pick it all up, one big hand full picks up everything but some dusting and odd bits here and there. Easy to get with a throwaway rag! ;D

If its all the same to you fellas, I'm gonna keep making looooong stringy spirals of swarf with this rod of deliciously smooth cutting steel. I had thought it was 1018 like 99% of the odds and ends from work(cutoffs), but am beginning to think this might be something else. Anyone know a quick and easy way to test for leadalloy(12L14?) 

There.  That should be sufficient. (Kermit dusts his hands together and puzzles a new problem) How to cut off the piece from such a loooooong thick wall tube?(I'm really using that looooong word today)  No other answer than to stop putting off putting the bandsaw together. Opened once last month, and upon seeing the huge number of bags of parts and slats of sheet metal, immediately closed back up and set upon the 'todo' shelf. There's a reason for all my procrastination, but I'll not bother anyone with that drivel. 

Time to do what must be done. You're rid of me for now, eh? 

Back with some pics and greasy finger prints then,
Kermit


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## Kermit (May 2, 2009)

Put together successfully. But close inspection revealed a dent and further investigation showed a busted motor run capacitor.

Will get another one come monday. 35uf and 240 VAC was marked on the old one. I've got one in mind good for 320 VAC but only 32 uf... might be just the thing if the fit is right. otherwise will have to jury rig that as well.

 ;D Just the kind of thing this old tech has been missing since turning QC. Lots of cooked up solutions to the problems at hand from the material at hand(or close by at least) Damn the waiting, but free almost never comes with 'fast and easy included ;D


Here ya go













damage


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## Kermit (May 3, 2009)

Okay...........

I just needed another reminder it seems.


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