# My new sub workshop



## Blogwitch (Aug 7, 2016)

A few weeks ago, I purchased off eBay a metal 10ft x 8ft shed, as my 20ft x 9ft concrete workshop is overflowing with machinery and tooling, to such an extent, I can hardly find or do anything in there. Everything for this shed is included except for the 1/2" ply floor.

Yesterday, I started to build it up. The instructions say that it can be built by 2 normal people in about 8 hours, it says nothing about a clapped out, one handed old fart all by himself, so I reckon it will take me about 5 full days (weather and body conditions permitting).

So the first thing to be made was the floor support. This is it, tied to the gate that will be being replaced with this shed, showing the back face to the front garden.







The next part was to assemble the sub frame, this went fairly well as most if it could be done with me sitting on my chair, except for the four corner uprights.






A new day dawns, with me getting all the side panels, screws and plastic washers sorted so that I could crack on. Half way through the side build, it was still rather flimsy in the slight breeze that was blowing.






So this is where I decided I have had enough for today, time for some lunch and a good rest.
All the sides have been erected and it has become a lot more stable.






Because of the weight, this part now needs moving into it's finished position before I can start to assemble the roof.

So tomorrow, I think I will call a few of my mates around to give me a hand.







John


----------



## goldstar31 (Aug 7, 2016)

I'm or thinking about something directly similar. Two points arise- well, three!

The first is sweating. Nothing rude, condensation of metal.  The second is that I'm a 'lung case' and all of 86 but my ground, recdently cleared of overhanging branches of two huge horse chestnut trees is not level.

The third is 'who' supplied the thing, please?

Not bothered about the cost.

And don't do anything to regret working alone

Norman


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 7, 2016)

It's not for the feint hearted Norman, building it by myself is really taking me to my limits, but it is exactly what I need, so I am persevering.

Most don't come with the floor support, they cost extra, but buying a refurbed one from here, they normally do.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301989089678?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Delivered the next day.

John


----------



## Nick Hulme (Aug 13, 2016)

goldstar31 said:


> I'm or thinking about something directly similar. Two points arise- well, three!
> 
> The first is sweating. Nothing rude, condensation



Norman, 
The best approach is to line with wood studding, the same depth as the supporting ribs or a bit thicker, insulate between the studding and then ply line. 
I used Celotex only with no ply for the roof insulation, not only does this stop condensation but it stays cooler on warm days and requires remarkably little heating on the coldest of days, 

 - Nick


----------



## goldstar31 (Aug 13, 2016)

Nick
 Thank you for your valued comments.  I'm going back a long way with bitter experiences of corrugated iron. Again, I recall drops of moisture coming from my daughter's clear plastic roof 'lights' in her kitchen. Incidentally, she has underfloor  heating and double glazing.

Mind you this is the Frozen North( of Leeds)

Cheers

Norman


----------



## Nick Hulme (Aug 14, 2016)

Norman, 
Heating and double glazing usually results in a warm humid house atmosphere which will find any cold points and condense. 
In an insulated shed it's ideal to use a dehumidifier on a timer switch, all it's energy consumption is emitted as heat making it an ideal low level heat source with the advantage of reducing atmospheric moisture at the same time. The issue with minimum functional temperature for dehumidifiers has never been an issue in my insulated shed, it doesn't get that cold, 
Regards, 
Nick


----------



## Charles Lamont (Aug 14, 2016)

Nick Hulme said:


> Norman,
> Heating and double glazing usually results in a warm humid house atmosphere which will find any cold points and condense.
> In an insulated shed it's ideal to use a dehumidifier on a timer switch, all it's energy consumption is emitted as heat making it an ideal low level heat source with the advantage of reducing atmospheric moisture at the same time. The issue with minimum functional temperature for dehumidifiers has never been an issue in my insulated shed, it doesn't get that cold,
> Regards,
> Nick



If the space is a cold one, then a dessicant dehumidifier may work better that a condensing coil type. I have used one  successfully in my shop for the last two (fairly mild) winters. The only problem I have had is that the external drain pipe does not fit very securely onto the water tank.


----------



## Nick Hulme (Aug 14, 2016)

Charles Lamont said:


> If the space is a cold one, then a dessicant dehumidifier may work better that a condensing coil type. I have used one  successfully in my shop for the last two (fairly mild) winters. The only problem I have had is that the external drain pipe does not fit very securely onto the water tank.



Charles, 
If insulated and boarded out these sheds don't get cold easily and the heat output from a dehumidifier will actually warm them up significantly, better to insulate sufficiently as even with all appliances off for a frosty week the interior of mine never hit the dew point ;-) 

 - Nick


----------



## 10K Pete (Aug 14, 2016)

I don't remember the numbers any more but it's just amazing how much R value foam board has! It doesn't take much to do a great job. 2" foam board will handle almost all needs for a small shop.

Pete


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 15, 2016)

I personally am not worried one iota about condensation.
As visitors to my shop will testify, I have had a load of new machinery stored under an open sided lean to against my house that is open to the elements on three sides. Not one bit of corrosion on them at all, some of them have been under there for about four years with no heating. 
The secret is fresh air. Keep the place well ventilated and dry inside and no harm should come to them. This shed has a full ventilation system along the ridge, plus the constant wind through the gap by my house should keep things very dry, with no heating being used. Unlike my sealed and insulated workshop which is kept at a constant temperature above 55 degs F during the winter months by use of an oil filled radiator. If that wasn't used, my machinery would be covered in rust in no time, DAMHIK.
Sorry for being so long keeping you updated on the build. After I had finished the four walls, I had a relapse and had to spend a few days on my stomach while things healed a little.
For the last two days, I have been assembling the roof, and should be ready to be fitted tomorrow or the day after.

John


----------



## 10K Pete (Aug 15, 2016)

John, you are fortunate with your outdoor humidity situation! That's wonderful.
Sorry to hear about the set back and I hope to see some pics of the new shed soon.

Pete


----------



## goldstar31 (Aug 16, 2016)

An update with my thanks to all contributions.

Well, for two winters, I have 'lost the roof' of my workshop which lives in a windtunnel along the side of my bungalow. Last winter, I also lost the coping tiles on the roof peak. All of this is laughingly under trees which are protected by the Council - being listed. They are large, past their sell by date( tell me about it as well) and two, dead/dying huge chestnut and an equally large sycamore had to come down.

It all prompts me to move part of my workshop into the bungalow because I am now sole occupant and really rattling about in it.

Two cars have gone to my children and if the insurance people have their way, the last one is ready to be traded in for an old people's bus pass. So the garage is more or less free

Cheers- well, sort of

Norman


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 16, 2016)

Thanks Pete, only now just mobile again, but have to be very careful as I am away on another driving holiday in a few weeks, this time to Bavaria, so I am taking no chances. If it is too strenuous for me, I will call in outside help.
Notice the chair, ten minutes on, twenty minutes off.

So this is the roofing frame built up. It looks like an easy assembly job, but actually it isn't, as I found out with the walls. The destructions tell you to fit screws into certain places to hold things together, but on further assembly they have to be removed to join something else onto it, with bits falling around you, then is the time you wish you had three hands . They have done the same with this frame, once it is on top of the walls, I have to remove a dozen screws so that they can be fitted through the walls and into this frame.






I was going to sheet it up on the ground, but I reckon it will be much too heavy for both of us to lift up, so when my mate calls again, we will get it on top of the walls, fiddle about getting it screwed up, then my friend can leave me to put the roof sheets on. 

So I now have to wait until I get help.

Norman,
A good friend of mine lost his last parent a few years ago, so rather than being outside in a damp and cold garage, he is converting his spare bungalow bedroom into a workshop. He says he has no family ties now, so he is going  to enjoy what he has left.

I am a little luckier than yourself, I am supported by the services agency (armed forces), and they pay for me to have a new motability car every three years so that I am still mobile, the only thing that costs me is the fuel, everything else comes free of charge, including great insurance, which covers me for all over the EU as long as my head isn't about to fall off. They automatically cover me for all sorts of disabilities as long as I am still capable of driving, and if things get worse, they will even modify the car with gizmos so I can continue driving as long as possible. At this time, getting in and out of it is the main bugbear, but once in, I could easily drive 500 miles, which I did daily on my last trip to Bulgaria..

John


----------



## goldstar31 (Aug 16, 2016)

I feel assured to know that the powers that be are 'looking after you'. I'm still RAFA, 31 Sqd'n Asoc'n and such so we do try to help, Ghurkhas included.  My other 'outfit' is gathering a lot of money towards London's second air ambulance. Again, we more Northern lot are into air ambulance and various cancers. I suppose that is what surviving implies. 

I'm having to miss Bavaria this year. Missus used to play clarinet with her mates to support the local church on the hill. Nothing to do with model engineering. Hope that you have a great time, too.  Lots of slap and tickle?

Meantime
Cheers

Norman


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 17, 2016)

Had my friend Terry come over this morning to get the roof structure fitted.
We first had to drag the walls out onto the driveway and lift the structure into position. This was one job that was impossible for me to carry out by myself.

Within the hour, the structure was fully screwed into position, and my, did it make everything more rigid, it is solid now, and when I eventually get the sheeting on, it will be going nowhere.

So then it was a matter of chipping away some concrete curbing to get the shed perfect into position and it fitted absolutely perfectly in the area I wanted it in. There are no gaps for my little dog to get past and escape into the front garden, where he pesters people walking past the front gates to stroke him, barking like mad if they don't, typical Jack Russell behaviour. 

This is how it looks from my front hard standing. I have just had new super gates fitted to the front, so I had to try it out with the car in position while still being able to swing the gates behind it. Perfect!!!






This is the view from the rear, please excuse the waste bins, they will be moved to a different area when all my other stuff is moved into this workshop.






Now 'JUST' got to get the roof sheets on, fit the vents and trims plus the doors, and fit the internal LED lighting (solar powered), then I can get measured up correctly and get the floor cut to size. 
My friend Terry wanted to carry on, but I just couldn't, and besides, I need to go to see my lady friend, that is much more important than fiddling about with some tin shed.
So I am hoping that sometime next week, those jobs will be finished and I can start to fill it up with all my overspill.


John


----------



## bazmak (Aug 17, 2016)

are u ngto insulate between the floor members before fitting the floor ?
Polystyrene sheets maybe and a plastic membrane .I did something similar years ago,but made the shed to an exact size to fit between the house and the fence.Like the post please continue wit fitting it out etc


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 18, 2016)

Baz,

I will be using no insulation at all, and in fact, rainwater will be able to flow underneath the floor but still drain away with all the other water (slight slope).

There is a reason for it, everything that will be stored in here has already been stored outside, but under direct cover, without any ill effects at all, and I have found that as long as there is a free flow of air through the shed, corrosion shouldn't set in. 
I am worried that if I start to introduce insulation, it might upset that balance.
Ask me again in another year and I will be able to tell you whether my way has worked or not.

Thanks for the question BTW.

John


----------



## bazmak (Aug 18, 2016)

I was thinking more of keeping the timber floor dry.The u,side will absorb moisture etc ??


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 22, 2016)

Sorry I haven't replied before Baz, usual problems, having to lay on my stomach for a few days..

I do understand about the underside of the floor, and I have three ways I can go about it as far as I can do it, my brainpower can only come up with so many.

The first is to buy a very expensive waterproof treated one, it has a layer like plastic on both surfaces and the ply is resin treated all the way through. It is used mainly for trailer floors - Already discounted because of the cost and getting it cut to the right size in time. This shed HAS to be finished within the next two weeks.

The second would be to treat the underside with a rubber cement, similar to underseal you use on car chassis, and I have used this method before to great effect when rebuilding my bathroom about 10 years ago. It was taken up again when my bathroom was converted to a wetroom a few years ago, and nothing had penetrated at all, but it was V-E-R-Y messy to apply and it took many days to dry enough to be handled - still considering, but time constraints are against it.

The third and last one is to stick, using contact adhesive a polythene sheet to the underside of the floor, like you have done. I have never tried this, but in theory, it should work well - still considering.

If you can think of any other method, I would be most grateful and would consider it fully.

There are many ways to skin a feline.

BTW Baz, where the shed is situated, it has like a small wind tunnel effect between  two houses, it blows in there for about 3/4 of the year, and the first place to dry out is just there, so I am hoping that this effect will be the same as I am storing the machinery now, which is in the same area. I have even considered a small wind turbine in the space because of the constant blowing.

John


----------



## John S (Aug 22, 2016)

How tall is that shed John ?
Is it just for storage or working in ?


----------



## ShopShoe (Aug 22, 2016)

Is MARINE plywood available where you are? This is the stuff for building boats and it can be out in all weathers. I have had some things made from it that have lasted outdoors for decades without even paint, although I can't say about how it would work in contact with ground and in your climate.

--ShopShoe


----------



## Nick Hulme (Aug 22, 2016)

I used 18mm Sheathing board in my workshop, it's a good option where outdoor performance is required and is cheaper than marine ply, some of which, in the UK, is not as good as you'd think if you get it wet 

 - Nick


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 22, 2016)

John,

It is only just tall enough for standing in and working towards the ridge, so no work in there, it is mainly just for out of the weather storage. For someone a bit shorter, say 5ft 8ins could work in there. 
I will be disassembling my X2 mill in there though. The bits will be taken into my main shop for the machining and building of the CNC mill. I might use the hydraulic power press in there, but that normally only takes a few minutes, and I can put up with that.

SS,

I will be using marine ply from the off.

Nick,

I am limited to a max of 12mm thick due to the underfloor support and where the flooring has to go under in certain places. I looked at sheathing board but fell down on the side of ply because it is inherently more rigid than sheathing board, so because of the amount of weight that I will be storing on it, that is the only reason for my choice.

A little bit of new news, if it isn't raining, my friend Terry is coming over tomorrow to help get the roof finished, and on Wednesday we are out getting the floor cut to size, us old codgers get a 10% discount at the big hardware store on Wednesdays, so that means the marine ply will be cheaper than normal ply on the other days of the week.

I might be able to afford to eat this week.

John


----------



## Jasonb (Aug 22, 2016)

Which of the sheds are you finding marine ply in John, most tend to stock WBP


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 22, 2016)

Jason,

Stock checked B&Q, where I was going to get it cut to size and found they don't stock it in any nearby stores, so I have to come up with a new plan. What's the use of advertising it if they don't hold stock?
I will take a trip down to our local lumber yard and see what they can come up with.
I can get the ply from other big sheds, but they don't have the cutting facility.

John


----------



## Mark Rand (Aug 23, 2016)

Blogwitch said:


> The first is to buy a very expensive waterproof treated one, it has a layer like plastic on both surfaces and the ply is resin treated all the way through. It is used mainly for trailer floors - Already discounted because of the cost and getting it cut to the right size in time. This shed HAS to be finished within the next two weeks.
> John




If any of the timber merchants near you can do shuttering ply, that's good. That's also resin treaded on both sides.


----------



## Nick Hulme (Aug 23, 2016)

John, 
I only used sheathing board for boarding out the walls, the floor is concrete. When I built the structure I sealed the inner edges of the base to the concrete and no water runs in or through it, 

 - Nick


----------



## django (Aug 23, 2016)

I had one of those sheds a few years ago and found that the metal sheeting to be as thin as a drinks can and the sliding doors and plastic handles a complete joke. I had to seriously strengthen the whole structure and I lined the doors with 3/4" plywood and fitted 2 extra sets of stainless steel angle brackets with high security padlocks just to feel that it was reasonably secure, and I only kept my fishing gear and lawn mower in it and I live in a very low crime area so I hope that you've taken that into account.

Paul


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 23, 2016)

Paul,
I don't have the same concerns as yourself, and by the hundreds of other people who have reviewed them, it seems they don't either. It has become a very strong and rigid structure since part of the roof was put on.

But anyway, everyone has their own opinions.

As for security, and I won't go into large detail. If someone wants to break into it, they will do anyway, but because my house and main workshop, and this shed soon will all be connected to my house alarm system, and it has a bite. I mount extra sirens inside, and if they can withstand the ear bleeding sound, plus a terrier at their heels, they are quite welcome to take away anything they think they can carry.  Do you think you would get far carrying a small partially stripped mill or a 12 ton hydraulic press? Which are about the only things of value that will be in there. 
BTW, only managed to get half the roof on today, still hoping we can get that finished and still pick up the flooring tomorrow.

John


----------



## django (Aug 24, 2016)

That's fine, I was only making you aware of my experience. :thumbup:

Paul


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 24, 2016)

You are quite right to do so Paul, what would the world be like if we all liked and did the same thing, Max Bygraves, Marmite on toast, train spotting.

Yuk!!!

But other people might think differently.

John


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 28, 2016)

Waiting for the weather to become decent coupled with being able to have my friend to come and help me, today we managed to get the roof finished off. It was a little awkward because of the area we had fitted it into, we had to really stretch over and work from the top, as we couldn't access up one side of the shed.
But with a few choice words, everything fitted.












Because we have now reached this stage, I am quite capable to be left on my own to finish things off. Bank holiday tomorrow, so it will have to be Tuesday or Wednesday before I can pick up the floor and fit it. 

Now back on a delayed schedule to have everything stored in there by this weekend. I told you that this would take me more than 8 hours, by the time it is ALL done, nearer to 6 weeks.

John


----------



## Mark Rand (Aug 29, 2016)

It looks a lot bigger from the other side!


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 29, 2016)

As far as I know Mark, it isn't tapered front to back, or the other way around. Maybe an hoptical dillusion.

I was going for the floor for the shed tomorrow, but a large abscess has formed under one of my dental implants, the pain causes tears in the eyes and dangley bits to retract into where they came from, so an emergency trip to the dentist is called for instead. 
I don't fancy going on holiday without my teef, I just hope it can be fixed in time. I had a similar incident last year when I went to Bulgaria, one of my implant tops unscrewed and as I had no tools with me (very tiny allen key and a mini torque wrench) I couldn't put it back in, luckily three others held things in place until I got back. 
A word of warning, don't get implants, I paid L-O-T-S of pennies to have them done, and they have been a pain in the gums ever since. 
I should have kitted out my shop with new machines instead.


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 31, 2016)

Up and out at the crack of dawn with the sparrows this morning and down to my local DIY hardware store.

I was going to fit 15mm OSB board, 8ft x 4ft, but when I got there, I found that they had 12mm exterior ply, which their web site didn't show they stocked, so I bought 3 of those instead.

A few minutes later, I was on my way with the boards cut to the sizes I wanted, FOC, and a 10% wrinkly discount because it was a Wednesday.

Twenty minutes after I got home, the plastic sheet was laid over the stainless steel floor supports and the ready cut sheets were down.

A very nice fit indeed.






The offcuts are perfect for making shelves, so nothing will be going to waste. I won't be fitting shelves in here as I have free standing racking instead.
I won't be fitting the doors until the very end, as we have a lot to move in there over the next few days and they might get in the way.

Now back on schedule.

John


----------



## Blogwitch (Sep 4, 2016)

The final leg.

My friend came around early this morning to help me get the heavy stuff into the shed. Just over an hour and everything I needed to move was moved and put into it's correct position.








Everything fitted exactly.






Only a few more bits to put into plastic containers from in my shop and and put onto the lower shelves.






Job done, except for me to fit the security system and internal lighting.


John


----------

