# Dumb Vise Questions



## Mosey (Dec 18, 2011)

OK, what is the trick to setting up your vise on the mill table so that it is (almost) aligned without using the test indicator?
Do you have tabs on the underside that align with the table slots?
And, even dumber, do you set it up longways on the x axis, or across the table? Do you ever run out of travel and have to reset the vise in the middle of making a piece?
And, even dumber yet, do you have the ram set all the way forward, at the back, or in the middle? Again, have you ever run out of travel in the middle of a piece?


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## 1hand (Dec 18, 2011)

I can answer 2 of the questions....Yes, and Yes.....lol

I think you know which ones I'm referring to :big:

Really bad when your under CNC power!

Matt


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## rustyknife (Dec 18, 2011)

I eyeball the jaws to one of the T slot cuts in the table.  I have only used mine with the jaws parallel to the T-slots... 

You can line it up any way you like, I'm sure there are several ways, I do mine similar to a lathe 4 jaw chuck.

Snug it down a bit, run your test indicator, write down the high and low measurement, add the two together and divide by two, this number is the average. Crank the table back to where the average is, set the indicator at zero, then run the table back and forth tapping lightly on the vise with a soft mallet or deadblow till it all reads zero.

With enough practice you can do it pretty quickly, within a couple minutes.

I once eyeballed the vise to the table within .001. But like I said, that was still only once, and you still have to check it with a test indicator, so it saved very little time.


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## mygrizzly1022 (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi

  For times when close is good enough I lightly grip a carpenters level or similar long straight edge in the vice. The long length provides a good reference for your eye and you may be surprised at how close you can get. Try lining it up this way and then just for fun run your indicator on it and see how close you got. You may be surprised.

Regards Bert


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## portlandron (Dec 19, 2011)

This might do what you want

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ISj3Ad4vBU[/ame]


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## Omnimill (Dec 19, 2011)

Some folks fit pins in the base of their mill vice or machine a slot and bolt a steel strip into it the same width as the table slots. My mill vice has bolt holes rather than slots so I just turned a couple of tubes that are a tight fit into the vice holes with "tails" that project into the table slots. My vice is now within .001" when first fitted on the table.

Vic.


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## shred (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm a big fan of vise keys (and keys on other things-- tailstocks, RT's, indexers, etc), though I wonder why the guy in the video didn't use the existing key slots in the vise. I've made stepped keys for my Kurts and they work well. They're also available commercially if desired.


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## Noitoen (Dec 19, 2011)

The little drilled and tapped key ways next to the mounting holes are supposed to the same job


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## rake60 (Dec 19, 2011)

This is a real Red Neck method of aligning a vice on the mill.

I chuck up a piece of drill rod, or anything that is fairly round in the spindle.
I have even used drill bits chucked upside down.

I snug the vice up but don't tighten it!
Go to one side and crank it into the until a piece of paper can just be pulled between the
vise jaw and the round stock without tearing.
Then go to the other end of the vise and tap it which ever way it needs to do to get the
same resistance when pulling the same piece of paper between the round stock and vise
jaw. Check the first end again to be sure it didn't move. If it did readjust it.
After both ends "feel" the same, tighten the bolts and your are good to go.

It's quick and sloppy but will have the vise set within .002" 

Rick


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## Mosey (Dec 20, 2011)

portlandron  said:
			
		

> This might do what you want
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ISj3Ad4vBU


Wow, I really enjoyed your video! Thanks for taking the time and trouble to show that.
Mosey


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## ttrikalin (Dec 20, 2011)

portlandron  said:
			
		

> This might do what you want
> \[video\]



I do remember John (aka Bogstandard) had a thread on how to key a vise. COuld not find it on quick search... might it be in madmodder? 

take care, 
tom in MA


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## Swede (Jan 3, 2012)

Have to agree that the key slots already in the vise are the way to go. The keys can be purchased or made, and don't even have to be snug in the table slots, so long as you tap the vise so that the keys are firm against one edge.

My Kurt vise with standard factory keys is so reliable that I don't even indicate the vise anymore - on and off the table it goes, and it ends up square to less than 0.000,5" every time. They are a huge time saver.


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## Blogwitch (Jan 3, 2012)

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3586

It pays to read the whole post as other ideas crop up further down.

Starting at the 5th picture down on this post is the same sort of thing done to a spindexer

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2681.0


John


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## IronHorse (Jan 3, 2012)

Since I got my 3" screwless vice, I just drop it on the table, install 1 clamp lightly, use a square against table edge and vise, tighten 1st clamp, install 2nd clamp, re-check. Life is so much easier since I dumped my swivel and round base vices! This vice has being the most usefull tool I have ever bought.


IronHorse


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## MachineTom (Jan 3, 2012)

I wondered at what point during the cutting the slot process, did the guy in the video notice the existing slots all ready for the keys. I have keys installed in the vise, set it in place snug the right hand hold down bolt, twist the vise clockwise and tighten the other, jaws will be within tenths. A long key as he uses, could challenge the ability to get the vise consistently square, as it is 6" long, and could be 3 times more likely to catch on dings, chips etc. the keys are only to locate not to hold the vise. 

For those who have not seen key slots on a vise bottom, there are 2 inline with the jaws, and 2 inline with the screw. Store bought keys are hardened and ground, very accurate. They are stepped the slots in the vise are 3/4, the heads 5/8. Other sizes I'm sure available.


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## dgjessing (Jan 3, 2012)

IronHorse  said:
			
		

> ...I just drop it on the table, install 1 clamp lightly, use a square against table edge and vise, tighten 1st clamp, install 2nd clamp, re-check.



That's the way I do it too - easy!


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## tornitore45 (Jan 4, 2012)

I am with IronHorse, I have a 5" swivel base door stop never used once.
All parts I made so far fits in my 3" toolmaker vise.
Is light and ground square on all surfaces.
I set it with a step-square referenced to the table X.
I check it with a TDI because I am a little anal and never found more than 0.001 off.
A 6mm Allen wrench is all is needed, no swinging that clunky handle.
Of course if you work on full size engine a 3" toolmaker vise may be inadequate but for model work is plenty.


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## Alchymist (Jan 7, 2012)

I have a 4" Palmgren vise mounted to a piece of aluminum plate. The plate has a machined recess to hold the vise, and the plate was machined so that the fixed vice jaw was parallel to the table. The plate is drilled for T nut hold downs and can be positioned in various slots and at an angle if desired. Usually I just throw it on the mill, throw a machinist's square against the plate and the front of the table, and tighten it down.


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## AussieJimG (Jan 7, 2012)

Yep, I have a rail vice that I made in a Tech course a couple of years ago. Just made from CRS and dead simple.

I put it on the mill with a square and every time I have clocked it, it has been within 0.02mm. I added a couple of threaded holes for soft jaws that I could run a cutter over if I needed more accuracy (yes Bogs, you do have influence) but I have not needed them so far.

If I can figure out how to put up a photo I will do it 

Jim


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## Mosey (Jan 7, 2012)

These are great informative answers! So, the consensus is to put an indexing plate or pins or whatever into the bottom of your vise. Drop it onto the table against these locating gadgets and go. Or, grind the sides of your vise square with the jaws and use a square for almost perfect alignment. Or, both.
But, no one has addressed how they set up their mill ram in relation to the table. My ram has 5-1/2" of Y axis travel, and the table has 5" of Y travel. So, do you set the ram so the spindle is over the table at it's rearmost position when the table is also at it's rearmost? This allows you to machine the full width of the table top, but wouldn't it be best to set the ram over the center of the table at the table's center of travel?


Does anyone ever move their ram? When and why?
I ask because I sometimes run out of the ability to machine to the end of a piece in the vise. Obviously dumb.


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## maverick (Jan 7, 2012)

The need to extend or retract the ram pops up occasionally, much more so with smaller mills. For general use keep the work
 area of your vice centered under the spindle. When faced with a larger part, try to balance the extremes of the Y travel with the ram position.
 For even larger parts, divide the work into two zones and complete the operations in the first zone before moving the ram to reach the
 second zone. Be sure to pick a reamed or bored hole close to the zone border to use to re-zero the part. If the mill is equipped with a DRO,
 It is a simple matter move the ram, dial in the hole and enter the coordinates then carry on with zone number two. When moving
 the ram, it is important to zero both axis as the ram slide may not be parallel with the Y axis. This is always true in my shop where the ram 
 is swiveled side to side for various setups. To finish answering your question, go ahead and move it to make the most of your mill.

 Regards,
 Mike


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## MachineTom (Jan 7, 2012)

There is no right spot for the vise, I move it to suit whatever is needed. Since I'm in a wheelschair the usual position is in the slot closest to me, and the ram extended so that when the table is cloest to me the spindle C/L is behind the fixed jaw. This gives good coverage on most setups.

Heres a shot of off the table work, ram all the way out, table all the way in. Just reached


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## Lew Hartswick (Jan 7, 2012)

On the Bridgeports the ram get moved back and forth often, depending on what has
been done before. It get left wherever it was used untill it has to be moved to accomodate
 the job under way. So if it reaches let it alone.  Other wise make it fit the job.
  ...Lew...


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## terryd (Jan 7, 2012)

I have swivelling vice with key slots to match the tee slots on the bed. In order to set the jaws accurately in alignment with the table if I ever move them (rarely) I clamp a ground precision rod (from an old dot matrix printer) in the vice and using parallels which fit the slots, but packed to sit above, I can run a dial test indicator along the rod (dti stand against the parallel) at each end. It's pretty accurate.

To do preliminary set ups now, I use a new iPod Touch app called IsetSquare. It uses the gyroscopes in the iPod to sense turning. The edge of the iPod is set against the front of the table and zeroed, it is then set against a paralell clamped in the vice to compare, it is accurate to 0.1º, ok for initial set up. It is also useful for preliminary setting up work at an angle on the table. Accurate for many jobs but can be checked with more traditional techniques. It can also be used for initial setting of the lathe top slide at a reasonably accurate angle, normal caveats apply.

Best regards

Terry


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