# my attempt at Rupnows imperialized ridders flame eater



## werowance (Apr 4, 2018)

so I wanted to try to make my second engine, I am still learning a lot and am sure I will make plenty of mistakes, (already have). I decided to try Brian Rupnows imperialized plans for Jan Ridders Flame eater since I dont have hardly any metric cutters or drills.

so to start with I found a piece of scrap aluminum to cut the base out of. it was free but had been bandsaw cut on all 4 edges so I had fun squaring it up. came out nice and the holes drilled and tapped just fine

I also want to thank Brian for answering all my stupid questions.  hes been a great help to me so far


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## werowance (Apr 4, 2018)

Next I took some more scrap aluminum and glued 2 plates of the proper thickness together with locktite, allowed to dry over night and then started milling and drilling to shape.  my last project of a pair of kant twist clamps came in very handy to keep then held together.   I wanted them cut in a pair so that the bearing holes would be drilled and reamed together.  I guess you would call it a line bore? at any rate that came out very well in my opinion.  took a little pencil torch to break the locktite bond and they came out in a pair just like I wanted.   also the bearing holes I couldn't have asked for better.  they are a press fit but not extremely tight.  I had to heat the aluminum just a little and had the bearings in the freezer for about 15 mins.  I was able to push them in by hand fairly easy and once they came back to room temp  they were held in place tight and would not budge.  but not so tight as to deform the bearings.


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## werowance (Apr 4, 2018)

next would be the thing that fooled me the most.  the fly wheel.  I really thought it would be the funnest part of the build and easiest.  turns out so far to be the most agrivating.   its my first time cutting bronze and this stuff is gummy like cutting copper.  it wants to dig in and pull and the edges want to roll out.  but this log of bronze was dirt cheap on ebay and I have a lot of it.  

so after cutting off a slice of it in the bandsaw,  I chucked it up on the out side and cut about half the wheel on the lathe.  also center drilled it. leaving the outside slightly large and the inside cuts slightly small.

to make the center hole exactly  the right size for the crank shaft,  I made a dbit out of some of the same rod I cut for the crankshaft (forgot to make pics of the crankshaft build)
I chucked that in the lathe and used a little emory cloth to smothe down the shaft and to also make it ever so slightly smaller so the reamed hole hopefully would be a good tight but still sliding fit.  
and that's what I got.  I could push the crank shaft in but had to give it a little twist with light preasure to get it on the shaft.

after that I turned it around and faced the other side and brought down the outside lip a little closer.  but I just could not hold it in my 3 jaw because I didn't have enough material.  so I made an arbor to hold it and switched to my er32 chuck.  just doing all this took me forever.

once I had both faces cut properly and then I brought down the outside the correct dimension.  left it on the arbor and transferred it to a er32 mounted on my rotary table.  from there I drilled all the holes and then stood the table on its side and drilled / tapped the set screw holes.  

all of this took me at least 2 weeks.  (that's night funtime in the garage 2 weeks-not a full time job 2weeks)   

glad that parts over with


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## werowance (Apr 4, 2018)

I used a piece of old hydraulic ram shaft to make the cylinder supports from.  this stuff cuts pretty easily.  I figured it would be hard as a rock but actually I think it was better than regular cold roled steel.  

not many pics of that but you will see the final product in my next post with all the parts I have so far assembled.


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## werowance (Apr 4, 2018)

and last, some pictures of all I have made so far. I didn't have any pics of the crank shaft, but its made from left over rods from a printer / scanner. not sure of the steel alloy they are but cut easily. the crank face or throw or whatever its called was a piece of 12L14. I was worried about silver soldering to it but the 2 pieces solderd up just fine.

after assembled I have it the spin test - Ridders suggests I think 2 min of free spin as a test of the fly wheel. I came in just short of that 1min 58 seconds. I'm thinking a little more spinning will free it up even more I hope

this is about a months work for me so far so its looking like maybe next Christmas I will have an engine lol.


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 4, 2018)

Werowance--good luck---I'm following.---Brian


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## werowance (Apr 6, 2018)

not much progress.  having some hvac issues at home so very little fun garage time.  but I cut a piece of 303 stainless, faced both ends and barely cut the skin off of it last night.  I thought 303 was supposed to be easy machining stainless.  this is pretty darn hard.  took no time to smoke the cutting fluid using carbide to cut it.  guess I need to slow the chuck speed down some?  feed rate is very slow.


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 6, 2018)

Just a little tip---The engine I built has a 316 SS cylinder. I find that it is just horrible to get it to run. There is a great difference in the thermal conductivity of stainless steel and cast iron. I think perhaps my engine would have ran better with a cast iron cylinder. I have never had a great deal of luck with Jan Ridders designs. They seem to work just fine for him, as he has videos posted of them running. I however have a difficult time getting consistent runners when I build his designs.---Brian


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## werowance (Apr 6, 2018)

well,  I just don't have any C.I.  I really wish I did, it would be much easier to cut.


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## werowance (Apr 11, 2018)

not much done so far  got it drilled and bored out.  tried using my carbide boring tool but it was to flexi and lots of chatter so switched to a homemade 1/2 inch boring bar.  basicly a pice of 1/2 drill rod with a angled cross drill at the end with a set screw in the tip.  the cutting tool is a broken high speed drill ground to shape.  no pictures of that tool.  
I'm up to cutting the cooling fins.  that's not been fun.  my parting tool isn't as wide as the drawing called for,  the drawings said the size was typical so I could have made it slightly different and I wish I had because trying to shave off .014 of the edge of a parting cut makes the carbide insert deflect a lot.   ill have a lot of file work to get these in better shape.

and then last,  the paper towel sticking out the end is the dumbest thing I have done so far.  after I bored it,  I said wonder if my brake hone will actually fit in this bore.  well it did,  so I said lets see what one or 2 passes look like while its there.  well it went thru the other end and expanded.  now I cant get it out until i am ready to unchuck it.  grrrrrr.  what an idiot i am.   so the paper towel is stuffed in there to keep it from flopping around until unchuck time.


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 11, 2018)

Bet ya never had so much fun with your clothes on----


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## werowance (Apr 12, 2018)

finished the fins,  and parted it off last night.   now to make an arbor for it and get it on the rotary table.  
and while I'm thinking about it,  laps -  I have made a few from brass and understand how they work.  but brass is expensive,  aluminum I would think might be to soft and I was thinking I have some 12L14 leaded steel laying around close to size.  what about a lap made of it?  its definitely softer than the stainless the cylinder is made of.  do you think it will be still to hard to expand properly or it might scratch things up to much?


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 12, 2018)

I would stay with an aluminum lap.--Brian


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## Sleddog (Apr 13, 2018)

Picture rotated


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## werowance (Apr 13, 2018)

thank you for doing that


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## JCSteam (Apr 13, 2018)

Following along this build &#55357;&#56842;


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## werowance (Apr 16, 2018)

not much accomplished in the garage this weekend.  tilled, mowed, mulched.  great spring weather Saturday.  even got a little sunburned.  and then back to freezing temps last night.

got the cylinder almost finished honing,  will do that last bit after I cut the intake slot in it to help debur it.  almost finished the arbor to put it on my rotary table.  I hope to have that done tonight.  then fun times for me trying to square up the rotary table.  that will likely take me an hour or more.   I have yet to achieve that trained eye that some seem to have who can sit a vice or rotary table on the slide and have it almost perfect just by eyeballing it.   I'm a little tap on this side,  then another tap on the other and repeat over and over.


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 16, 2018)

Does you rotary table not have the key-slots in the bottom? Any rotary table I've seen has. You simply make a stepped key, half of which into the rotary table base and half of what fits into the slot in your milling table. Use a counterbored shcs to hold the key into the rotary table base permanently. Then you have instant alignment every time you set the rotary table on your mill.


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## werowance (Apr 16, 2018)

it does for verticle (rotary table laying on its back flat with face pointing up but not horizontal.
and on the verticle it only has a place for 1 key on 1 end of it thus it still wiggles to much.  I will double check that tonight to make sure its not just missing a key.  but if memory serves there is only 1 place.   and on vertical also,  there is only 1 bolt hole to mount it down which annoys me as well,   horizontal you have 2 holes 1 on each side.

I wish it were like my compound for my lathe bits.   keyed on both ends.


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## werowance (Apr 17, 2018)

heres all I got done last night.  arbor complete and a washer for the end.

hopefully some cleanup tomorrow.  things are getting nasty


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## werowance (Apr 17, 2018)

now on the subject of laping compound.  here is a picture of what I have in stock.  how do you compare the microns to "grit" ?  is there a chart or something I can cross it over to?


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## werowance (Apr 17, 2018)

just found this chart.  looks like the 28 micron is very close to the 600 grit mark.  would that be correct?


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 17, 2018)

Yes. it is close. I can't remember what diamond grit I used because I only used it once.


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## el gringo (Apr 17, 2018)

A quote I remember Bob Shores using, [ be careful using diamond grit, "diamonds are forever"]

Ray M


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## werowance (Apr 23, 2018)

not much progress this weekend. wind blew down my tv as well as internet communications pole. spent Saturday night putting in a new post and then almost all day Sunday trying to realign my dish to no avail. I did get internet back up but not tv... oh well the Dish man will be here Tuesday to fix that. anyway I did manage to hog down the flat for the intake area of the cylinder. in the pic you will notice I put a verticle flat on the washer as well. when I originally made the washer I realized it didn't have anywhere for my edge finder to hit so I could locate the edge of the cylinder length wise so I cut an edge off that washer for that. and as I mill down I am also milling down the top of the washer. hogged it down till about .010 left to slow cut on. hope to get that tonight. or hey, looks like ill be off work Tuesday all day waiting on the satellite dish person to show up...


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## werowance (Apr 25, 2018)

got the intake slot milled out and the flats for the legs milled.  only have a picture of the flats.

now,  on the hole for the pushrod that must be drilled the length of the cylinder.  I am seeing different ideas out there.  like drilling from each end and putting in a bushing on each side which is something I don't want to do because ill never hit from both sides straight.  so I'm wondering what type of drill bit could I order to make this drill nice and straight and that long?  just looking for recommendations on this one.  my drill is only long enough to reach half way  (and I'm sure theres a "that's what she said" joke in there)


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## werowance (Apr 25, 2018)

had a little more time to think about this,  if I did have to drill half way then flip around, my concern is locating the drill on the opposite end and how I would ever measure it.  id like to drill it the full way if that's the recommended way but if flipping it turns out to be recommended,  then what about a setup like this:
drill the first half while in the rotary table and square to the other cuts and where it really needs to be.  then switch to a milling vice,  insert a scrap of 1/2 aluminum plate.   drill and tap a hole to run a clamping bolt through to hold the cylinder in place.  I will run the bolt through the cylinder and have plenty of side to side room to adjust.  
then move the table over to where the push rod hole should go and drill the correct size hole and insert an alignment pin in.  

put the cylinder with the half length hole drilled on that pin and run the clamp bolt through the center of the cylinder to tighten it down.  this way the pilot pin hole never gets moved and the mill head never gets moved after drilling it.  thus the other end of the cylinder should be properly aligned and can be drill from the other side and meet somewhere in the middle. ?    is that how you would do it if you had to drill both ends?


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 25, 2018)

Check the length of your 1/8" drill. Mine is 2.580" long, and that's long enough to go all the way thru the cylinder in one set-up. That hole is fairly critical. Buy a longer drill if you have to.---Brian


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## werowance (Apr 27, 2018)

ok, bought a new silver and deming drill for the push rod hole. it barely was long enough. only had about a 1/4 inch in the chuck by the time I hit bottom. I would drill a little and then extend the bit in the chuck. holding my breath a lot but it made it through without walking on me. 

also got the holes drilled and tapped for the feet. hopefully this weekend I can finish honing and then laping it. the shcs sticking out of the feet holes were just where I was checking the threads and how deep they would actually go is all.

then materials search again. hoping I have some brass or can locate some cast iron in one of the barns at my moms farm for the piston and valve. I know there is plenty of old window weight sashes but I have learned my lesson on those. they are hard as a rock. carbide doesn't even like to cut them.


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## werowance (May 1, 2018)

would this graphite be suitable for the piston and valve?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-Sti...723524?hash=item28517b3f84:g:VkAAAOSwUg9aiVKI

Carbon rod or Graphite stick is high purity heat resistant tool which made from high density fine grain graphite. It is used for stirring & mixing the molten metal in order to get a proper mix of alloys in Gold, Silver, and Brass. It also used when large amount of molten (Gold, Silver) metal melt in larger crucible with torch, in Gas or electric melting furnace.  
*Feature*


Graphite helps to remove impurities and skin metal surface
It is made from high density fine grain graphite
It can be used with molten metal of gold, silver, brass
Weight: 11.64 Oz (1&#8221
 *Note: Not to be used for platinum metal, graphite will contaminate with platinum.* 
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SKU​Size​JMT-49​5/16&#8221; THICK x 12&#8221; LONG (8 mm x 305 mm)
JMT-50​3/8&#8221; THICK x 12&#8221; LONG (9.5 mm x 305 mm)
JMT-51​5/8&#8221; THICK  x 12&#8221; LONG (15.8 mm x 305 mm)
JMT-52​½&#8221; THICK x 12&#8221; LONG (12 mm x 305 mm)
JMT-53​1&#8221; THICK x 12&#8221; LONG (25 mm x 305 mm)

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## Brian Rupnow (May 1, 2018)

Werowance--the only time I ever got this engine to run was with a cast iron piston, and only when I squirted the piston with WD40. I spent $100 on a 12" length of graphite and made a new piston and valve, and then I couldn't get it to run at all. I think you are better off sticking with a cast iron piston.---Brian


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## werowance (May 1, 2018)

ok,  more materials on order - CI for the piston and valve (thanks Brian),  brass for the rod, etc.

this is where I got to this weekend with it,  almost finished lapping it,  decided to clean it up and assemble it before bed time last night.


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## werowance (May 1, 2018)

while I'm ordering supplies,  I think ill shop for the wick.  I found 1/4 round cotton wick on ebay.  Brian,  is that what I should use given the size of the wick holder?  or should it be larger so as to be tight in the holder?


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## Brian Rupnow (May 1, 2018)

Email me your address and I'll send you down a piece. I have enough 1/4" wick now to last the rest of my life.---Brian


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## werowance (May 1, 2018)

wow, that's very kind of you.  I will pm it to you asap.

I can paypal u for it
thanks


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## Sleddog (May 1, 2018)

Damn Werowamce that&#8217;s very nice looking. Looking forward to seeing it run.


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## Cogsy (May 1, 2018)

That carbon rod is exactly the stuff I bought for mine when I built it. Machines very nicely, even takes a thread, but it makes a huge mess unless you're careful. The thing graphite has going for it, apart from the self lubrication, is its mass, which is far less than cast iron. So in theory your engine should run better with less rotating mass to drive. I think Brian would have got his going with the graphite piston and valve but didn't realise just how finicky these things are when getting them to run. It's easy to be fooled into thinking a part is wrong when it just refuses to run and as an unknown, the graphite is easy to 'blame'. It's cheap enough to grab a stick and have a go, and the CI you've already ordered will certainly come in handy for something else


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## Brian Rupnow (May 3, 2018)

Werowance--I mailed your 1/4" wick out this morning--03-May-2018.---Brian


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## werowance (May 7, 2018)

Thank you Brian,  I really appreciate it.


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## werowance (May 7, 2018)

while I am waiting on my materials orders to come in I switched gears and did a lot of sheet metal work.  - I also made the piece that pulls the valve in and out - its a piece of stainless steel.

now on the sheet metal work, for the burner I was thinking that this engine needed lubrication - virtual lubrication that is.  how to get this I wonder....  well why not incorporate some brass stripper pole.  that should make the engine run better right?  .  but seriously I have this brass pipe for things like bar rail,  crowd control poles etc.  but I'm calling it stripper pole.  i don't want to mill the base out for the recess if i can at all help it so i am making the burner tank shorter to compensate for that.  i cut a piece of the pole and then split it.  heated it and then got it semi flat by hand.  heated again and then off to the 20 ton press with it.  now its really flat.  squared it up and then started breaking the corners over.  once done i silver soldered the seams (yes 2 seams because i bent one corner to long and had a trapezoid shape so i had to cut it to shrink it.)  now with a square i take a piece of scrap copper place that was .125 thick and heat and beat on the anvil till almost the right thickness.  heat and put in the press and that almost removed all the hammer marks.  next the belt sander.  now i have 2 pieces of copper plate the right thickness and all cleaned up.  i hard plumbers solder in the bottom and will do the same with the top when finished.  for the wick tube i will silver solder that in.  my thought is that if i have to mill the recess out on the base place then i will have to remake the sides.  plumbers solder is a lot easier to undo so i wont waste the top and bottom.

for anti skid or to keep the burner from moveing around when running i will use a piece of self adhesive cell phone matt.  like those little stick ons for your car dash.  i used one on my steam engine boiler burner and it works great.  - Moms idea on that one.

here are pics


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## werowance (May 9, 2018)

Brian, I received the wic.  I really appreciate that. 

thanks


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## Brian Rupnow (May 15, 2018)

So--What's happening with this engine. I really hope that you have more success than I did with mine.


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## werowance (May 16, 2018)

not much progress,  I just got the last of my materials order in yesterday.  Hobby metal kits isn't the fastest shipper in the world.  but I did receive exactly what I ordered.  I hope to start on the crank rod tonight.  its raining and I cant do any gardening.

here is the completed alcohol burner and a pic of the pipe I made it from.  

the wic worked well,  I fueled it yesterday with some heet gas antifreeze treetment


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## werowance (May 16, 2018)

Brian, on the connecting rod,  where the bearing goes in.  did you just go width of the actual bearing?  or exactly the width on the plans?  on hole,  I plan to do light press fit like I did on the bearing support but wasn't sure on width


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## Brian Rupnow (May 16, 2018)

I cheated a bit and made the con rod from two pieces silver soldered together. The bearing I got was wider than I had expected, so I made a round piece of brass the same thickness as the length of the bearing and the same outside diameter as the plan calls for. The rest of the con-rod was thinner as per the drawing.  Either way will work fine. I don't like press fits on small stuff. I just bored the hole for a push fit of the bearing and used some 638 Loctite to hold the bearing in place.


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## werowance (May 17, 2018)

Morning,  I didn't get much done last night.  marked out my rod is about it. 
I also plan to 2 piece my rod.  

I plan to use a piece of scrap ali plate,  take a copper or other scrap metal strap across the rod to hold it down kind of like the 2nd picture. then drill both holes through and into the plate,  I will like use an end mill and plunge cut the large bearing hole so as to leave a nice flat bottom hole in the plate.  I will cut the brass bearing part to fit said hole.  I will then remove the rod, cut it out and then put it back on the plate with a pin in the small hole and the brass in the other end and then put the strap back on to hold it down while silver brazing it together.  at least that's my plan.

on a side note,  I really would like to own a decent protractor,  anyone have any recommendations?


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## werowance (May 18, 2018)

not much accomplished last night.  drilled and tapped the ali plate and copper clamp strap to 1/4 x 20 - the most common thread I seem to use and then wouldn't you know it,  I couldn't find a single 1/4 x 20 bolt or screw anywhere.  then I realized,  yep that's the most common fastener I use so I had used all of them.  after about an hour searching everywhere and threw all my bins I gave up and went in the house and got my wifes bits and bobs jar out of the utility drawer and fortunately I found 1 screw and 1 bold that was the right size.  

I used some red lock tight and then strapped it down and clamped it.  probably doesn't need the lock tight but would hate for it to move while drilling it.  once drilled I ll have dowel holes to line it back up

ill remove all the extra clamps before drilling,  leaving just the copper strap to hold it down. they are just there to keep things nice n tight wile the locktight cures.

anyway ill be dropping by the bolts and screw place down the road from my day job at lunch and stocking back up on fasteners.

hope to have a rod and other parts made over the weekend


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## werowance (May 21, 2018)

no much progress this weekend.  just got a rod finished is all


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## werowance (May 21, 2018)

ok, reading the new forum instructions but really cant find how to post a picture properly.  any help?


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## werowance (May 21, 2018)

ok, think I have the picture thing figured out


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## werowance (May 25, 2018)

well, not very much progress this week.  lots of working late and then catching up on home chores to.

I managed to get the crank pin made that the rod rides on.  managed to break a #50 drill in it first, lucily there was enough of the drill sticking out that I got it out, then the 2-56 tap broke off in it,  and again luck was on my side and managed to get it out without mangeling everything.  I really hope to get some funtime in the shop this weekend


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## werowance (May 29, 2018)

got a start on the valve push rod assembly and on the last piece - the adjuster,  I destroyed silver brazing it.  oh well wasn't a lot of material, just a lot of time lost.  I'm going to get my oxy accetaline refilled and use my jewelers tip next go round instead of my large propane burner.

on another note.  the ball bearing for the rod,  I pulled the dust shield out and found that the ring that holds the ball bearings in place is plastic.  do you think I should source another bearing?


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## Brian Rupnow (May 29, 2018)

No, you should be okay. That bearing is a long way from the heat source.--Brian


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## werowance (Jun 1, 2018)

got my oxy acetaline tanks swaped out,  makes a big difference trying to silver solder  so this completes the push rod assembly.  well I might shorten that 2-56 screw just a tad,  and I left the rod I think .300 longer than plans just incase.  but I think I can pretty much call that complete for now.  only 1 more little bitty tiny part to make,  the clevis that the piston rod joins to the piston with.  after that ill start the piston/valve and finish the lap on the cylinder.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 1, 2018)

Got my fingers crossed for you---Brian


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## werowance (Jun 1, 2018)

brian, how did you join your rod to the clevis on your engine?  just a piece of wire or something bent over?  or did you do some sort of peening on the ends or other fancy ways of securing it in place?


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 1, 2018)

If you are talking about the end farthest from the flywheel, I silver soldered the clevis and hub to the end of the 1/8" rod.


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## werowance (Jun 4, 2018)

no I'm talking about where the crank rod connects to the piston.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 5, 2018)

I used a piece of 1/16" diameter cold rolled steel x 0.550" long. The piston skirt keeps it from moving to either side and scoring the cylinder wall. If you can't find 1/16" diameter cold rolled steel you can buy 1/16" diameter steel welding rod.


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## mcdavidr (Jun 6, 2018)

One of these was my first big project on my new lathe and mill. It was a challenge but it turned out pretty well.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 6, 2018)

mcdavidr--Strange question, but did it run?


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## mcdavidr (Jun 6, 2018)

Yes, runs pretty well, tried to post a video but get message its to big.


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## mcdavidr (Jun 6, 2018)

Trimmed video, now says wrong type .mp4


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## mcdavidr (Jun 6, 2018)

Just posted short video to media section, engine_small


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## mcdavidr (Jun 6, 2018)

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/media/engine_small.1370/ 
Sorry don't know much about posting to forums


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## Cogsy (Jun 6, 2018)

mcdavidr said:


> https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/media/engine_small.1370/
> Sorry don't know much about posting to forums


Most people find it easier to upload videos to YouTube and then just paste a link in your post. Normally the video will then show up within your post itself. Entirely up to you though.


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## mcdavidr (Jun 6, 2018)

Thank you for the info, I will have to try that.
 Your engine in the photo looks very well done. I was going to polish mine up but just got involved in another project, maybe one day.


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## mcdavidr (Jun 7, 2018)

Ridders Flame Eater Video
My first attempt to post a YouTube video


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## werowance (Jun 8, 2018)

Nice mcdavidr,  I really need to get back in the shop,  all I have accomplished this week is cut a pice of round stock and put it in the 3 jaw chuck. nothing else.....  but my garden is about caught back up and I almost finished mowing last night so hopefully it wont be much longer, I'm on the last few bits now....


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## mcdavidr (Jun 8, 2018)

Thank you for the compliment. My machines have felt left out lately. I am spending to much time with my recently acquired 3D printer. I have a couple of Ridders coffee cut stirlings about half done I need to finish.


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## mcdavidr (Jun 8, 2018)

When I built mine I tried silver solder, took to much heat. So I tried regular electronics solder. Much easier and much stronger than I had imagined, I have had no joint failures.


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## werowance (Jun 13, 2018)

today I have some encouraging news.  it ran....
if I had to describe it, it was like an EKG heart read out.  almost flat lined after I spun the fly wheel ...then I moved the flame a bit and it started picking up speed to a decent speed.   unfortunately in my haste to grab my phone to video it,  (I use my truck tailgate as a work bench...who doesn't lol)  I caught the corner of the tailgate with my hip and bounced it which almost knocked the burner completely off the base and the engine stoped.  ripped my pants, scraped my hide.....   I could never get it going again.

now some background on what ive been doing the past few days.  I have the cast iron bar for the valve and piston but on ebay I found graphite stir rod in broken condition.  the was only a couple of dollars so I said why not try it first.  this stuff is pourus as all get out. it looks like its cast with lots of air holes in it.  but it machines very easily.  so easily that I actually under cut just a bit so when I lapped it in, it didn't even remove all the machine marks on it.  it did smoothe them down but I think its too undersized.  but hey, I can make lots more with this rod and quickly to.  so I will try graphite again before I switch to cast iron.  you know use the soft stuff for trial and error first so I don't spend so much time machining and lapping in.

the hardest part so far has been the little link that connects the rod to the piston.  it took 7 tries and even on that it still isn't perfect.  for some reason my best tap and die kit would never form threads on the piece.  it would just roll up the steel.  I switched to a cheap harbor freight kit and it cut with no issues.  glad that parts over with.

here are some pics  cast iron bar next to broken graphite rod
and then a pic of the pourus graphite, then a pic of cross drilling that stuborn rod conector.


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## mcdavidr (Jun 13, 2018)

*Congratulations on getting it running! *
Mine is a little finicky to get started, the flame has to be in just the right place and it seems like it has to warm up a bit. Once it gets to the right temp itstarts easily. Your are right about making the piston pivot, a real pain. I made mine out of brass. If you need more graphite try http://beckergraphite.com/. Quality product and reasonably priced.


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## werowance (Jun 13, 2018)

I was warned against graphite,  but I just wanted to see what it machined like,  this engine is also my first bronze machining as well.  but pretty sure this graphite stir rod is no where near "machinable grade" graphite.  so after I use up the last of this stir rod if it still wont go ill switch over to the iron.  I just don't want to wear out my cylinder lapping in iron before I had the chance to try out the graphite and see what it was like.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2018)

Werowance--Congratulations on your successful run.---Brian


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## werowance (Jun 14, 2018)

got to mess around with it last night for about 15 mins or so and did some tests on the piston and valve,  they are definitely to loose,  if I disconnect the push rod for the valve and hold the valve just closed over the intake I can hear the swoosh noise of air rapidly by passing both the piston and valve.  I also get very little vacume affect when the piston is doing intake stroke while holding the valve in closed position.  which is what I figured when I cut to far. 

well, lets hope either I get a lot of yard and garden work done really quick,  or it rains and rains and rains so I have to spend time in the garage     all this work is getting in the way of my fun lol.


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## Cogsy (Jun 14, 2018)

That stirring rod is horrendously porous, as you pointed out. The one I bought off ebay had no evident porosity at all and machined beautifully. It looks like I was just lucky - or maybe that's why the one you got was snapped in the first place - maybe it was a 'second' or part of a dodgy batch.


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## werowance (Jun 15, 2018)

probably,  the other end appears to be a little more solid,  with any luck I will get time this weekend to try and see.  and hey, worse case I do have the cast iron.


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## werowance (Jun 17, 2018)

ok,help please....
1. the piston at top dead center, the top of it falls right about dead center of the intake slot on the cylinder ,  can I get a photo of someones intake slot with piston at top dead center?
2. I originally cut the threads to short for the piston rod connector as well as the valve conector.  thus there is no in between to prevent the valve from sucking shut to soon and creating a vapor lock to soon.  I remade just the valve conector with threads to length but not the piston conector and with that the valve cannot completely close by the adjuster that hits the skirt of the piston to pull the valve shut.   if I move the adjuster enough to make that happen then I don't have enough travel on the valve push rod.

if I use the connectors that are cut flush with the tops of the pison and valve then I do get extended spin time and it tries to run.   I have tried 2 sets of graphite and 1 set of grey cast iron piston and valves.

so if I can see where the piston should be at top dead center and maybe some close ups of the piston and valves with the connecting pins in them it might help.


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## mcdavidr (Jun 17, 2018)

My piston is dead even with the bottom of the port. It is hard to show in the photo. With the piston is at TDC there is only about .020 between valve and piston. The pushrod pulls the valve to completely cover the port about 10 to 20 degs before BDC. If you push the valve closed while the piston is on the down stroke the engine sort of vacuum locks. Hope this helps.


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## Cogsy (Jun 17, 2018)

Mine is set so the piston just creeps into the intake port. I went to a lot of effort to make sure the valve could not be driven open much further than just enough to uncover the entire intake port, and also is only drawn down the bore just enough to fully cover the port when closed. I didn't want to waste power on big movements of the valve. Mine runs (well it did before I let it sit on the shelf and get gummed up with dust) but I have seen others perform better.


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## werowance (Jun 18, 2018)

hmm,  so definitely half way over the intake port is to far.  I measured and remeasured everything and I cant seem to find my mistake.  I'm thinking of shaving the tip of the piston down just a fuzz or shortening the crank rod a little to see if I can get a better line up.

I'm at work and cant experiment with it right now but wonder if reversing the valve and the piston since one is thinner might work out?


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## werowance (Jun 18, 2018)

also,  I tried a little dry film Teflon lubricant (which I have since cleaned back out) but it seemed to actually help.  wonder if it can stand up to the heat?


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## Cogsy (Jun 18, 2018)

I don't think having the piston come up that far is much of an issue myself. It can't hurt anything or build any compression so I wouldn't worry about it. I know when I couldn't get mine to run I looked at every part trying to work out what I'd done wrong and it turned out to be just the flame position, height and cylinder temp. It was so incredibly frustrating that I've never got the courage up to build another one, though I would like to have a go at a poppin one of these days.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 19, 2018)

So what's the real story here? Did you get it to run or not? Mine doesn't work worth a damn, and although it did run long enough for one short video, it never ran again. I think it is a flawed design, because everyone I hear of that has built this engine has a dreadful time getting it to run.---Brian


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## mcdavidr (Jun 19, 2018)

I think the timing is critical on this engine. I quote from Mr Ridders web page
Adjustment of the engine.
As said there is hardly anything to adjust to this engine. The once-only adjustment concerns fixing the striker at the right position of the pusher rod. When this is done right you see the following when turning the fly wheel slowly by hand:
In the utmost right position of the piston: the internal valve is pushed completely over the flame hole in the cylinder with about 1mm overlap. 
In the utmost left position of the piston: the valve is pushed by the cam on the piston so that it opens the flame hole except for the last 1mm. If the engine runs the valve will overshoot so the flame hole will be opened completely then. 
Per these instructions my valve is pushed slightly too far because the port is completely open,  it runs although not as fast as the example on his site. If I remember correctly when I built it the piston was pushing the valve too far and I shortened something. Then I had to adjust the lenght of the pin on the piston end of the actuator rod. The cylinder has to reach some magic temperature before it will start and the flame position must be in right position , but then it plugs right along. 
I think maybe  I’ll drag it out and play with it for a while.


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## Cogsy (Jun 19, 2018)

I got mine to run eventually, but it took a lot of fiddling. I'm tempted to pull it down, clean it up and try and get it going again but it'll probably take as long as it did the first time to figure it out.


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## werowance (Jun 20, 2018)

ok, so had the day off yesterday and I played with the engine most of the day.  I modified the piston fork so that I could screw it in further thus moving the piston back a little.  right now it creeps less than 1 mm past the beginning of the intake hole at tdc and at bdc its just less than 1mm from being flush with the outside edge of the cylinder.  It wants to run (ill be attaching a video) and actually does run for a little bit.  what happens is it gets a vacume lock every once and now kinda like a back fire or something which just makes it want to stop.  I believe this is because I don't have enough threads sticking out past the piston and valve to prevent the valve from sucking shut to soon.

anyway that piston fork was horrible to begin with.  I think I'm on like number 7 or 8 tries on making it right anyway.

let me get this video up to utube


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## werowance (Jun 20, 2018)

oh, and I got some dry graphite lube to.  that actually helps.  but once you spray it, you have to let it dry for a few seconds,  then work the piston and valve back and fourth to distribute it good else it will create a high spot of graphite in  there and drag the piston.  but once you spin it a few times it runs smoother than without it.  and it doesn't soot up or anything when it gets got.


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## werowance (Jun 20, 2018)

here is link


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## Brian Rupnow (Jun 20, 2018)

Well, it does run. You appear to have your wick at least twice as high as is recommended in the original article.--Brian


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## werowance (Jun 20, 2018)

yeah, I experimented with wick height as well,  seems the carbon build up on the tip messes with it. if I cut that off then I can lower it back down and get the same results.   I'm thinking right now that I need to have the 2 threaded tips that meet in the middle to prevent the valve from getting sucked closed to soon done correctly.  that hiccup or backfire as I described earlier is where the valve is getting sucked closed way to soon and if I spin it really fast by hand it will actually stop the engine and reverse direction.

in the video I'm running "Heet" gasline antifreeze however I bought a quart of denatured alcohol at the hardware store and same results and same looking flame with it as well.  the denatured alcohol even says "fuel" on the can.


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## werowance (Jun 20, 2018)

and I also picked up some corded wick instead of braided from my mom (she does curtains and covers couches etc) that she had.  not sure what she used it for but Ill see if the corded wick will work any better or the same.  the corded looks like rolled up fabric instead of braided rope.


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## Cogsy (Jun 20, 2018)

If I remember correctly, spinning it by hand with no flame should produce a 'backfire' like you're talking about - that suggests your fits are good. If it's doing it with flame but only when you spin it really fast it might be the valve bouncing back from its travel stop and closing early.

 To me, it just looks like your flame position needs a little tweaking and it should be good to go. Possibly, the base of the wick is a tiny bit high? It could be there is some cool air being drawn into the bottom of the intake port and messing with it. I'd try with a slightly shorter burner (changing the wick height won't affect the bottom of the wick). And then Just moving the burner around by 0.5mm at a time until you find a sweet spot (that coincides with correct cylinder temp at the time) and it will be off and running. Good luck!


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## werowance (Jun 21, 2018)

thanks Cogsy,  ill give that a try.  on the base of the wick, notice I didn't mill out the base plate for the burner but what I did do is make the burner shorter to compensate and by measurements its actually shorter right now that what it would be if I had milled the recess out in the base plate and made the burner to proper height.  but I can certainly file down the burner wick tube just a tad shorter as a test.


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## werowance (Jun 22, 2018)

ok, so I have a new game plan.  last night I decided to make a new piston rod fork since my current one looks like it was whittled out with my pocket knife.   the new one I will put the cross drill closer to the base/threads and also make the threaded portion longer.  this will give me the ability to adjust  the piston position in the cylinder by screwing the piston fork out until it hits where I want it.  then I will cut the excess threads off after I measure where the valve needs to be, then a dab of locktite and see what we get.

only progress I made last night was turn a piece of mild steel down to the right diameter and called it quits.  hope to get more accomplished this weekend


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## werowance (Jun 27, 2018)

I made the new piston fork (for about the 8th or 9th time) and it turned out just about perfect as I wanted it to be.  I made the fork shorter so that it could screw further into the piston thus giving me piston position adjustment forward or backward as needed in the cylinder.  last night I put it all back together and had it adjusted to where I thought should be,  lit the wick and let it heat the cylinder for about a min.  then I gave it a very light flick just to help circulate the heat and I turned my attention to some paper towels and trash I needed to pick up.  well GOOD news is that that little light flick turned into a very high speed run all on its on.  it was running as fast as if I had spun the flywheel with everything I had.  BAD news is that it only ran about a min and a half.  but it picked up its on speed.  what had happened is that the cylinder evidently was not hot enough and had sucked in enough gunk to build carbon or something in the cylinder.  I could feel the drag on the piston as I tried to start it again.  i disassembled and cleaned everything up with alchohol then blew it out with the air gun and things were free and clean again.

it never tried to run again though.  wife got home with dinner so i gave it up early last night and veged out on the couch with a full stomach and the remote control in hand.   I'm hoping that after i disassemble and clean once again, maybe i didn't get it clean enough or perhaps things are in just a bit of a bind after taking it all appart, that it will run again for me.

I'm using denatured alcohol that even says "fuel" on the can from the hardware store.  burns and smells the same as "heet" fuel line antifreeze did.

one more cool thing i learned making the new fork:  i do not have a slitting saw blade as thick as the piston rod is so was having to make multiple passes to get the fork as wide as needed.  i had the idea of stacking different blades onto my arbor till the right thickness was achieved. this worked wonderful.  my blades have no kerf on the teeth so once stacked and the teeth lined up with the other blade with my finger nail i sinched down the screw on the arbor and i couldn't even see a line where the 2 blades met.  and the width was just perfect and the cut was made with ease.


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## werowance (Jul 2, 2018)

well, I can get a somewhat reliable run from it now using my mothers sewing machine oil.  its some sort of industrial oil she gets in 5 gallon buckets.  its clear, super thin and doesn't smoke.  however it is still just a little to thick,  but this lets me know that my piston/valve to cylinder fit is off since the oil gives the amount of vacume I need to make it run properly.  I think ill hone the cylinder again and also give graphite another try.  ive contacted Becker graphite for a quote for a 1" x 12" stick,  hopefully it wont cost an arm and a leg.

my mom does commercial upholstery and drapes etc.  so she has several industrial size sewing machines,  this is not regular 3 in 1 oil from the hardware store.  wonder what mineral or baby oil would do?  wonder how hot its smoke point is?

(edited) - I said hone but meant "lap" the cylinder again


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 2, 2018)

Be advised--You can not oil graphite pistons. I had my engine running briefly (damned briefly, just long enough to make a short video) with cast iron pistons and light oil squirted into cylinder . I changed over to graphite and it wouldn't run at all.---Brian


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## werowance (Jul 2, 2018)

Brian, just a thought, if this last ditch effort doesn't work,  how much would you charge to redesign it as a finger engine?  just the plans that would re-use as much as possible of whats already there


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 2, 2018)

That is a question I've never been asked. Seeing as you paid me for the drawings and that engine really is a major pain, I would do it for free.--You could save everything except the cylinder and cylinder stands.-Brian


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## werowance (Jul 2, 2018)

Thanks Brian I hope that the re-lap and new pistons will be tighter tolerance and work for me but if not ill be happy to pay you something for your time.  its only fair,

on another note I  just got off the phone with Becker Graphite.  really nice bunch.  they recommended a 12 inch stick of the jc3 rod which is 9.19 each.  cant argue with a price like that.  he said that one was better lubricating and still machinable.   1"x12" for what I'm guessing after tax and shipping will be about 15.00 total  and will ship today.  coming out of IL. so I doubt I have it before the 4th holiday coming up for me but should have it before the weekend.


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## werowance (Jul 2, 2018)

I stand mistaken,  6.69 initial cost for the rod, and it was the jc4 rod not jc3


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 2, 2018)

Werowance--If you decide to go for a finger engine, this is what it will look like. You need a spacer block under the crankshaft supports, plus the finger lever, finger pad, finger lever support shaft and drive link. There are no changes to the base, flywheel, crankshaft nor crank arm. I am sorry that you have had problems with this engine. You are not alone. Just about everyone I have talked to has had problems getting this engine to run. Since you paid me for the set of plans redrawn in imperial units and the engine doesn't perform, I will send drawings of the necessary parts free if you want them.---Brian


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## minh-thanh (Jul 2, 2018)

Hi werowance !
Why change to a finger engine ?
Keep trying hard ....Please try again
unfix it  and inspect each part carefully, one by one, friction, airtight, closed - open valve, flame, and as well as when assembling them together.
flame eater is a engine difficult !!


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## TonyM (Jul 3, 2018)

I have been interested in flame eater / vacuum engines for a while. I guess we have all seen youtube examples of these engines powering pumps, small generators, and vehicles. There are also variable speed engines. 
I know very little about them so I would like to understand why so many people have problems getting these engines to run let alone power anything before I embark on a project I have in mind.
Is there something in the set up / design that these successful model makers know and we don't? Or is it just the nuances of particular engine designs.


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## minh-thanh (Jul 3, 2018)

TonyM !
 "Is there something in the set up / design that these successful model makers know and we don't? Or is it just the nuances of particular engine designs."

Answer your question: Nothing is secret, I am sure !
All information, everything is in the link:
http://ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_ervaringen_tips_happers/ervaringenhappers_frameset.htm
I'm sure you saw it
And some of my experience: after every first test run to adjust the distance, the height of the flame should remove the piston and clean the cylinder, piston . Because when the flames are not correct it will absorb cold air outside and sometimes even gas fuel - when heated - into the cylinder and increase friction, sealing the cylinder and the piston.
  When I did the first one,  I made this mistake. I made a total of four pistons that fit nicely with the dirty cylinder and it got worse.


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## werowance (Jul 3, 2018)

Brian,  that looks nice,  thank you for the redesign.  I am still holding out hope that once I get my tolerances better that it will run more reliably,  you should not be sorry as you definitely warned me about it before I purchased the original plans, and you deserve to be paid for your time (I just cant pay as much as your time is really worth lol)

Tony, I don't think there is anything secret,  a vacume engine by its nature is very low powered and requires very close square / straight fits. 

I believe my issue is just that my cylinder to piston/valve fit is just a little to loose because I can get mine to run and run very well with a little wd-40 however wd-40 burns really quick thus my cylinder soots up as soon as it gets hot which only takes a couple of mins and then its tear down clean and start over.  I cant get a long run because of this.  (not supposed to run any oil what so ever but its the only way I can get mine going)

the reason I believe the wd-40 and other oils I have tried seem to make it work is because it increases the seal around the piston and valve to the point it has enough vacume to run.  after lots of running / cleaning I am starting to see rub patterns in the cylinder which are not completely circular,  I am starting to see slight oval patches in the cylinder that the piston has not rubbed  which indicate not a perfectly (for lack of better description) "square"  its darn close but not perfect so I'm thinking I need to re-lap the cylinder just a tad bit more which is going to require new piston and valve because of it thus I am going back to graphite since its sooo easy and quick to machine, and just because I want to.


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## werowance (Jul 3, 2018)

and while I wait for my graphite I plan to test other oils in hopes of finding a super thin with high smoke / flash point that will work.  the sewing machine oil passes the smoke point but is still just a tad to thick.  wd-40 is thin enough but will smoke or fire up way to soon.  I'm wondering about mineral oil, baby oil or pam cooking spray?  I don't have mineral oil but I do have the others to test with.  we used to use pam cooking spray for gaskets on engines when we raced out at Coeburn,  that way we could re-use the cork gaskets after inspection would tare down the engine to see if we were cheating or not so I'm thinking it may be high temp enough?  the pam kept for example holly carb metering block gaskets from sticking and getting ruined each time you pulled the block to make a jet change.


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## minh-thanh (Jul 3, 2018)

Hi werowance !
I only use the sewing machine oil , but very little oil.
I think you should use cast iron for the piston, because the graphite is easy to wear when the cylinder is not good enough.


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## TonyM (Jul 4, 2018)

Thanks Minh Thanh I have read that before. Although Jan Ridders has made some wonderful engines of all types I have not seen his designs doing any work. They all appear to be so low powered that they cannot perform useful work and can be finicky to get right. 
I was really looking for a reason why some engines appear to be less finicky and provide enough power to drive something. Whereas it seems that other engines are difficult to get running at all. Take this one for example.


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## minh-thanh (Jul 4, 2018)

Hi TonyM !
That is a beautiful engine and effective !
The problem: "I was really looking for a reason why some engines appear to be less finicky and provide enough power to drive something. Whereas it seems that other engines are difficult to get running at all."
I think  the engine use type the slide valve or valve mechanism same type engine in this video is more power because it:
1 / Very little friction
2 / Less force feedback
3 / maybe: Parts are also lighter
4 / Heat exchanger by water


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2018)

WE HAVE SUCCESS   its late so heres the video


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2018)

ignore the fact that it stoped in this video,  thought it was that I blew the flame while smokeing,  i found the nut that holds the rod on the crank laying on the tile.  it had backed all the way off and the rod was running on the screw threads.   also after 5 or 6 full runs I found that the piston and valve started un screwing itslelf from the threads.  I have not lock tighted those as I am supposed to.  but I have ran it many times tonight,  even called my mom she drove up to watch lol.   I am so happy.  I have ran several tanks of alcohol out running it,  just now starting to gum up but still running.  ive gotta go clean the black graphite off me. but I am soooooooo happppyyyyy   it runs reliably....   no power but that's the normal and understood.


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2018)

just in case,  the magic tric is this,   graphite piston an valve,  but don't lap them in.  read another thread on this forum about that just oil alone is to much,  much less 7micron lapping paste.  so I cut them tight  could just get them in the cyinder.  would be enough to bend the piston rod if I tried to spin by flywheel.   then heated cylinder with pencil tourch on the back side so not to gum up the intake hole,  while heating the flywheel turned on its on by gravity.  the stainless cylinder expanded enough to allow the piston to move.   a quick spin proved it was moving to spec.  fired up the burner and she took right off.     

when done I let it cool,  at this point the piston is tight again.  not as tight but wont pass the spin test Jan posts on his web site.  but passes just fine once hot.    

expansion of stainless vs graphite is the reson why...  at least that's what I assume.

but it runs great.  or at least like the others I have seen.  if I move the flame just right it gets a lot faster.


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## mcdavidr (Jul 9, 2018)

Congratulations on your success, your persistence paid off.


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2018)

this video is also the first run on the new piston an valve.  it gets better


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2018)

it had not broke in yet


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2018)

thanks mcdavidr


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## werowance (Jul 9, 2018)

ok, ive gotta calm down and get to bed.  thanks all for putting up with me.


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## Cogsy (Jul 9, 2018)

Congrats on sticking with it and getting it done! Frustrating little things aren't they, but so satisfying when they finally run.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 10, 2018)

Congratulations---Brian


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## werowance (Jul 10, 2018)

i didn't sleep hardly any last night.  wife said I couldn't take the engine to bed with me...

Brian,  if you want to give yours another shot,  ill send you some left over graphite.  make it tight in the cylinder while cold,  then pre heat cylinder before running. seems to make the perfect fit. 

I also re-lapped my cylinder with the aluminum lap to a mirror finish before I made my graphite piston / valve.

thanks
Bryan


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 10, 2018)

Thank you Werowance, but I already have graphite. I am really glad you got your engine to run.---Brain


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## werowance (Jul 10, 2018)

wonder which would be easier,  a fords first engine or a Webster for my first I.C. engine?


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 10, 2018)

By all means, build a Webster!!


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## werowance (Jul 10, 2018)

and I guess technically it wont be my first,  I tried and failed at a bj cicada diesel aero engine a while back.  hopefully my skills have improved since then.


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## el gringo (Jul 10, 2018)

werowance said:


> wonder which would be easier,  a fords first engine or a Webster for my first I.C. engine?


I have built three 'fords first' engines and many  IC and EC engines. I am now building a Webster My suggestion would be the Ford engine first.


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## werowance (Jul 11, 2018)

maybe a little better video of it running again.  also the fancy fluted glass shot bottle is what I plan to use as a alcohol filler bottle.  hope to make a cap with a brass pipe out of it sort of like those fancy cooking oil bottles my wife uses.


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## werowance (Jul 11, 2018)

and here is a video showing how tight the piston is when cold before I pre heated it to take the running video above


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## werowance (Jul 20, 2018)

I felt like the engine needed some accessories,  so I took the cut off end left over from making the ss cylinder and made a stainless funnel to fill the burner and glass shot bottle I am going to use to hold the alcohol.  the shot bottle cap wasn't much to look at so I made a knurled cap for it,  used the original cap and jbwelded it inside the aluminum cap because there was no way I was going to be able to cut threads to match the glass bottle.  I think they both came out nice


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## werowance (Jul 20, 2018)




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## werowance (Jul 20, 2018)

and then next I decided the whole engine needed bling and polish.  thinking back to what first sparked my interest in machining,  it was when I was a kid at the county fair looking at the crafts and such exhibits.  there was this beautiful stainless steel meat tenderizing hammer that a student had made and entered in the fair.  it had diamond milled faces on both sides, knurled handle and the thing that really caught my eye is the sides of the head were "jeweled" at the time I didn't know what those swirls were called but someone told me it was called jeweling,  later I learned it was also called engine turning.  so I thought that I might jewel the base to my engine.  first thing was to polish to mirror finish - and then stop... wait the shine and sparkly things distract me.... once I had it polished now I'm undecided whether to jewel it or to leave it mirror finish.. oh well in the mean time I'm polishing the other parts which just need polishing anyway as the only piece I will jewel if I decide to is the base.   what do you all think?  after seeing that meat hammer I later learned about Amelia airheart and her air plane and saw the engine cowel was jweled,  then later the fire dept visited the school and I saw the aluminum covers jeweled on the truck...  those swirls just kept showing up after I first saw that hammer.

I have read that some profesionals consider jeweling just a way to hide imperfections and don't like it.  what do you all think?


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## Cogsy (Jul 20, 2018)

I think that's a nice polish job on the base that will show every fingerprint and speck of dust really well...Seriously though - you say you've always wanted the engine turned finish, and you're at least halfway there on the base already. Follow your heart.


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## Jamie Barton (Jul 21, 2018)

werowance said:


> finished the fins,  and parted it off last night.   now to make an arbor for it and get it on the rotary table.
> and while I'm thinking about it,  laps -  I have made a few from brass and understand how they work.  but brass is expensive,  aluminum I would think might be to soft and I was thinking I have some 12L14 leaded steel laying around close to size.  what about a lap made of it?  its definitely softer than the stainless the cylinder is made of.  do you think it will be still to hard to expand properly or it might scratch things up to much?
> 
> View attachment 94929



I


werowance said:


> finished the fins,  and parted it off last night.   now to make an arbor for it and get it on the rotary table.
> and while I'm thinking about it,  laps -  I have made a few from brass and understand how they work.  but brass is expensive,  aluminum I would think might be to soft and I was thinking I have some 12L14 leaded steel laying around close to size.  what about a lap made of it?  its definitely softer than the stainless the cylinder is made of.  do you think it will be still to hard to expand properly or it might scratch things up to much?
> 
> View attachment 94929



I lapped my first flame eater with an old broom handle with a slpit and wedges. It worked a treat and I wish I had never sold it.. Coincidently Ibdid the opposite - a metric version of the poppin


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## Jamie Barton (Jul 21, 2018)

werowance said:


> while I'm ordering supplies,  I think ill shop for the wick.  I found 1/4 round cotton wick on ebay.  Brian,  is that what I should use given the size of the wick holder?  or should it be larger so as to be tight in the holder?



I just used an old mop for wicks, I think from the same mop which I chopped up to make my crude lapping tool. I'm a cheapskate but it worked well!


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## werowance (Jul 24, 2018)

well this is going to take forever.  2 afternoons and this is all I have so far.


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## werowance (Jul 24, 2018)

to make the swirls I am using a 3/8 wood dowel with some fine scotch brite pad hot glued to the tip.  I made a cutter for the discs using a piece of drill rod,  got the idea I think from Brian Rupnow cutting gaskets.  I might be wrong on who it was but it was on this forum.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 24, 2018)

Google "Craytex" sticks.---Brian


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## werowance (Jul 24, 2018)

wow,  wish I had known of those sooner.  that would have worked great.  will file this one back for the next time

thanks Brian


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## werowance (Jul 26, 2018)

and still going and going and going.....  .1875 is etched in my brain now  move over pull down,  .1875 over pull down repeat repeat repeat.  but I do like the results.  maybe ill get it done by next week.  averaging about a half inch a night.  but I'm only getting about an hour a night worth of garage time though.....


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## werowance (Aug 5, 2018)

well I'm going to call this one complete, what do you all think?  project of the month material?  hint hint wink wink lol

guess I'm supposed to put this in finished projects now right?

the base is made from some picture frame material I found in my moms workshop, I liked the fancy gold on the sides so she donated it.  the inside of the base is oak wood salvaged and cut down with a fly cutter from an old pallet and then a piece of 1/8 inch aluminum plate between it and the aluminum engine base.  the engine is removable from the base so I can get to the screws on the bottom in order to service the engine.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 5, 2018)

Well Damn!!! That is just beautiful!!! Definitely project of the month quality.---Brian


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## TonyM (Aug 6, 2018)

Certainly is.


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## Cogsy (Aug 6, 2018)

Very pretty indeed. Nice job!


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## Blogwitch (Aug 6, 2018)

Hi W,

In my hayday, engine turning was one of the things I used to do on most of my engines, especially on the dozens of finger engines I made for friends and relatives.

I used to use cratex rubberized bobs, from about 10mm to 25 mm diameter, wearing away on a strip of emery to get to the exact size required for the pattern and after working out the length of lines plus widths I usually work to a 1/2 D forwards by 1/2D sidewards and knock the cratex bobs down to the diameter needed and starting in the exact centre of the shortest edge of the plate.






Many a time it was for more than just one.
I can commiserate with your getting fed up of cutting the pattern, these three took four hours each plus one bob for each piece, but if you want it to look good, taking your time is an absolute must.






These two pictures show the same plate with the light shining at different angles, it is for this reason that engine turning looks so good, it is like having liquid surfaces.













If you want to see engine turning at it's very best, have a real good look around Eamonn Keogh's site, he is very approachable and he gave me many tips on how to do it a long time ago.

http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~eamonn/et/et.htm

Hope this helps

John


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