# Looking for a Mill



## wm460 (Dec 30, 2012)

I am thinking of buying a mill, about the size of a  Sieg X2 or X3 or Sieg Super X3. 
I need the Mill to be available in Aust.
I know everyone always tells you bigger is better but that is about the size I can squeeze in to my shed.

 I would love to hear your pro's and con's of these machines!

Have a great new year.


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## ausdier (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi Mark,
For my 2 cents worth, I would recommend that if you go as big as the X3 then you don't go with the X3Super.
One of my mills is an X3S and I have had a variety of problems with it ( all electronic ), so if I had my time again I would just go for the standard X3.
Cheers.


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## Omnimill (Dec 30, 2012)

Not got one myself but I believe they are quite well regarded.


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 30, 2012)

x-2 I have one I would say the pros are price and portability. 
con a little under powered in original form and the work envelope a bit small . the gib should be replaced for smooth movement of the table. z adjust unpredictable but a dial indicator is an easy workaround. 


x-3 more money and more work rigging to move. probable an easy two man job. but every x-3 owner I have talked to like it and it is a more capable easier to use machine than the x-2. 


Sx-3 no real recommendation either way. IIRC more electronic controls over the x-3. IMHO any machine you bring in the home shop you need to be willing and able to troubleshoot and repair. this board can help with that. 

If you are comfortable with electronics and believe the added features will help you go for the x-3 . If you no nothing about electronics and question the need and benefit of the added electronics stick with a simpler machine.
Tin


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## Omnimill (Dec 30, 2012)

As Tin says, the electronics on some small mills can be an expensive problem to repair. Another thing that can be a problem is stripped (plastic!) gears. There are mods on the net for this as well though. It's very easy to over work these small mills so buy bigger if you can.


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## rcfreak177 (Dec 30, 2012)

I have a SX3,

Been flogging it for 3 years now, never let me down, the only thing I have done is a Fusion cnc kit and 5000 rpm spindle upgrade. the original electronics have been good. Plenty of grunt too.

Hare and forbes is the go if you are in Australia.

They offer a HM45 which looks good as-well, slightly bigger and beefier than the SX3. Also only about 500 bucks more than the SX3

Baz


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## wm460 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks for your replies.
How much area do you need around these mills? 
Looking at the Hare and Forbes Delivery Estimate  is $694 to TC and Alice Springs it is $619, TC is 500km closer to  Brisbane 
The HM-46 they want $898 for the freight  bigger machine bigger footprint??

ausdier, just wondering what you mean by " if you go as big as the X3 " I thought these war a small mill.

Tin Falcon, I don't know much about electronics, My both my big wood lathe and my metal lathes are variable speed , one of my small wood lathe is getting a  variable speed motor very soon, guess I am spoilt this way.

rcfreak177, tell me more about the  Fusion cnc kit and 5000 rpm spindle upgrade.

Thanks again.


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## rodw (Jan 1, 2013)

I've been looking at mills too and have looked at the offerings at Hare and Forbes Brisbane showroom. I have run a tape over the Seig mills and aside from the wider table, they will fit in the same footprint as a pedestal drill press. If space is at a premium, there is no way one if their other mills will fit.

I think the Seig will fit in my space nd if you live in the Alice, I would not get the Super as it has more electronics. You can get CNC kits here http://www.cnckits.com.au/

I have also looked at the DMF42 which is also quite compact but I have not looked at it in the flesh. http://www.shawmachinery.com.au/mills.html from what I could work out, they have a pretty good reputation.


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## SmithDoor (Jan 1, 2013)

I have found the right size mill better The bigger the mill the harder it is to use and the tooling will cost more.
My self I had planer mill 144" down to a Hardinge mill that had a 12" table 
The 12"  Hardinge was fun and low cost. the 144 was not fun and cost a lot to run
I have even had lot of Bridgeports they can still be to big for a small shop
Today I have a small bench mill with SB 9 both does ever thing  I need fits in my small Garge shop with my wife's car. 
FYI ever one is very happy

Dave





wm460 said:


> I am thinking of buying a mill, about the size of a Sieg X2 or X3 or Sieg Super X3.
> I need the Mill to be available in Aust.
> I know everyone always tells you bigger is better but that is about the size I can squeeze in to my shed.
> 
> ...


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## wm460 (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks for your replies.
Looked at those links Rod, that CNC looks interesting but I am not a computer persn.
The DMF42 would be to bigg I'd recokn at 350KG.

Ever heard of the  German Wabeco mills?


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## tomrux (Jan 1, 2013)

The difference in freight costs is cause it will go through Adelaide. yep nucking futz but that is the way **** works.
I have had stuff shipped rom Darwin to Townsville. waited a week and enquired as to where the gear was and when it could be expected to arrive. was told "another ten days or so" your are ****ting me I says. Nup he says all NT freight goes trough SA. Told em well forget it and return the stuff, I wont be here to use it.

Tom R


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## kf2qd (Jan 1, 2013)

If you can swing the X3, go for it. It is worlds more solid that the X2 and slightly bigger. The solid part is what you will really enjoy. I have an X2, and have used an X3 CNC. Worlds different. Added weight helps with stability and the design is much stronger.


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## wm460 (Jan 2, 2013)

Tom that doesn't make sense, just rips the customer off.

Also looking at these, http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...uUaID9vKw9zEDi7QPZb_A&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.aGc 

but the freight will kill it I reckon.


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## rcfreak177 (Jan 2, 2013)

G'day Mark,

Very nice.
I am under the understanding they are of ultra high quality.

There is a dealer in Australia for them.
http://wabeco.com.au/

8500k is big bucks for that same machine if purchased locally though, mind you probably last the time.

PS, nice looking heeler in your profile picture.

Baz


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## SmithDoor (Jan 2, 2013)

They look like they have great mills and lathes
FYI bigger is not allway better just think of your doctor and big

Dave



rcfreak177 said:


> G'day Mark,
> 
> Very nice.
> I am under the understanding they are of ultra high quality.
> ...


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## purpleknif (Jan 2, 2013)

Take a look at the XJ 9512. I absolutely love mine !


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## wm460 (Jan 6, 2013)

rodw said:


> I've been looking at mills too and have looked at the offerings at Hare and Forbes Brisbane showroom. I have run a tape over the Seig mills and aside from the wider table, they will fit in the same footprint as a pedestal drill press. If space is at a premium, there is no way one if their other mills will fit.
> 
> I think the Seig will fit in my space nd if you live in the Alice, I would not get the Super as it has more electronics. You can get CNC kits here http://www.cnckits.com.au/
> 
> I have also looked at the DMF42 which is also quite compact but I have not looked at it in the flesh. http://www.shawmachinery.com.au/mills.html from what I could work out, they have a pretty good reputation.



I have been told that  Hare and Forbes have a 3 day sale in March,  looking at the flyer from their Nov sale there is a $200 savings on these mills.


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## rodw (Jan 7, 2013)

wm460 said:


> I have been told that  Hare and Forbes have a 3 day sale in March,  looking at the flyer from their Nov sale there is a $200 savings on these mills.



That sounds about right. From the November sale which I bought a few bits at, it looked like they put about 10% off everything across the board with more on some items.

Also don't discount some of the South Aust based ebay sellers given your location. I have bought some small bits from this guy but there are a couple of others too http://stores.ebay.com.au/ozmestore1


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## kd0afk (Jan 8, 2013)

I saw where someone built a cast iron scale model of a bridgeport knee mill. I would want mine a little bigger bit this is close.
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/Jordan01.JPG


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## Deanman77 (Jan 10, 2013)

Hi, I'm new to the site - but I wanted to reply to your question regarding mill - "which to buy". I have owned the Grizzly version of the X3 for about 5 years now. Last year completed converting it to a 4 axis cnc running Mach3 and Cambam. So I've used it as a standard mill and as a cnc. The only disadvantage I've found is openings low on the back guard which covers the area the electronics are housed in - chips will find there way in to this area. Other then this easy to fix problem - I love the mill. I've even machined gun parts (very critical to tolerances) . The best modification in my opinion you can add to the X3 is a DRO. The grizzly version of the X3 is a model G0463.

If I can help in any way - please let me know.

Tim


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## wm460 (Jan 16, 2013)

kd0afk said:


> I saw where someone built a cast iron scale model of a bridgeport knee mill. I would want mine a little bigger bit this is close.
> http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/Jordan01.JPG




I would love to have this sitting in my shed.


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## lensman57 (Jan 16, 2013)

Hi to all,

This is totally irelevant to the original OP, but I have an X1 with extended table, a cnc enabled Taig, a Sherline 5400 ~ 2000 and if I had the money right now I'd go with this one below, manufactured between 1950~1960 in about the same place as the now defunct Myfords in Nottingham UK and no longer available. I think it is a dream machine to have.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300846638953?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Regards,


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## wm460 (Jan 20, 2013)

I have just seen the SIEG SUPER X3 is on on sale at Hare and Forbes $220 off, till the end of the month.


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## trumpy81 (Jan 20, 2013)

I don't know about Hare & Forbes in your neck of the woods but I have not had a very positive experience with the Coopers Plains (Brisbane) branch. They don't seem to be interested in the hobbyist at all. I did intend to purchase a HM-46 from them but after my experience with them and their lack of interest (not the only time I have had this response), I ended up buying a TM45FG from Titan Machinery. It's a little bigger than the X3 but well worth the money IMHO. Freight may be a killer, but if you contact Stuart he will get the best deal for you.

So far, I am very happy with the TM45FG, it came with stand, 2 Drill Chucks and arbors (R8 same as Bridgeport), a nice heavy duty swivel Vice, hold down clamp set and ER25 Collet chuck and collets to hold the endmills.  It has auto tapping also which works quite well. 

Also, check out Asset Plant & Machinery in Melbourne, they have a good range of bench mills and their service is excellent. http://www.assetplant.com


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## wm460 (Jan 21, 2013)

Hi Andy, 

The TM45FG looks a nice machine and comes with some nice extras, what would be the minimum space need around it? 
Probably to big for the space I have.

In looking at the Titon milling machines I came across these Titan TM30V Milling Machine but cant find any one that has used them, plenty info on the TM20V
Are they the equivalent to the Sieg X3?

The TM20V Has a Spindle taper: R8 and the TM30V has a Spindle taper: MT3 do you  know why? 


Sent Asset an email just waiting for a reply, going by web site they don't stock smaller machines any more. I bought a 9 X 20 lathe from them a couple years ago.

Cheers, 
Mark.


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## rodw (Jan 21, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> I don't know about Hare & Forbes in your neck of the woods but I have not had a very positive experience with the Coopers Plains (Brisbane) branch. They don't seem to be interested in the hobbyist at all.



Strange, I have had good service from the same branch. They set me up in their computer and every invoice goes against my record so they have the complete history of my business and have even delivered stuff to home when on back order. Don't let my wife see their list!

I have a new lathe AL320G to pick up on the weekend when it comes up from Sydney and the young guy was good to deal with.


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## trumpy81 (Jan 22, 2013)

wm460 said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> The TM45FG looks a nice machine and comes with some nice extras, what would be the minimum space need around it?
> Probably to big for the space I have.
> ...



Mark, if you were drawing a floor plan you would need 1800W x 1500D and the machine is a little less than 1800H or so High. I didn't measure it with the Z-Axis in the fully up position though, I just went by the specs .

You could leave one of the side handles off and limit the table travel a little and squeeze it into 1500W x 1500D on the floor but I would say that would be the absolute minimum. The specs say that I have 500mm X-Axis travel but I would swear there is more than that. More like 500mm each side of center or 1000mm total, but that is a rough guesstimate. I will know for sure when I measure up for the DRO. 

I have no idea why the TM20V and TM30V have different spindles .... R8 would be preferable though. I think the TM30V is about the same size as the X3?? I haven't checked the specs though.

If you have a lathe it might be convenient to have an MT taper? The R8 taper doesn't jam like the MT tapers do and it has a key to prevent rotation, both good things on a mill. 

On the Asset website, I noticed that they had at least one mill under the drill heading, last page in the listing, might be worth another look?

I bought my SM-1022A Lathe from Asset also, and had an excellent response when I told them that some of the change gears were missing. They sent them to me at no cost and generally were very professional and appreciative of my custom.


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## trumpy81 (Jan 22, 2013)

rodw said:


> Strange, I have had good service from the same branch. They set me up in their computer and every invoice goes against my record so they have the complete history of my business and have even delivered stuff to home when on back order. Don't let my wife see their list!
> 
> I have a new lathe AL320G to pick up on the weekend when it comes up from Sydney and the young guy was good to deal with.



Rod, maybe they just don't like bikers?

Just before Xmas 2012 I was online looking to buy the HM-46 but it was showing as out of stock, so I rang 'that' branch and spoke to Dave (Manager). He assured me that they had plenty of stock and he also told me that delivery would be ~$150, considerably more than is quoted on the website.

I agreed to pay the delivery fee and he assured me that he would arrange everything and get back to me. I'm still waiting to hear from him, and yes I gave him my details and yes I have purchased from them before. I bought a T&C Grinder from them not so long ago, so my details were recorded yet again.

This is just the latest incident, there have been many similar incidents in the past. I no longer deal with them. I prefer to give my business to people who appreciate it, even if I am a small fish in a big lake.


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## trumpy81 (Jan 22, 2013)

lensman57 said:


> Hi to all,
> 
> This is totally irelevant to the original OP, but I have an X1 with extended table, a cnc enabled Taig, a Sherline 5400 ~ 2000 and if I had the money right now I'd go with this one below, manufactured between 1950~1960 in about the same place as the now defunct Myfords in Nottingham UK and no longer available. I think it is a dream machine to have.
> 
> ...



I believe MyfordBoy of YouTube fame has a similar machine to that. It's a very capable machine but does lack some vertical travel. Still, I wouldn't complain if it was in my workshop either


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## rodw (Jan 23, 2013)

Not sure if it has ben mentioned yet. The other machine similar size to the X3 (but apparently more robust) I just tracked down is the Titan TM20V. It has an R8 spindle.

I phoned stewart there and have emailed a request for a quote. He has it listed on eBAy but said he does a better price direct as he does not have to cover the fees.

I think it must be  apretty new machine but ther is a video of it on his ebay listing which I can't find again. But his contact numbers are on this page down the bottom http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/TM20V-MILLING-MACHINE/9728/


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## wm460 (Jan 23, 2013)

Cant find the eBay listing for  Titan TM20V.

But looking at .machines4u they have a Titan TM30V do you know what these are like?


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## wm460 (Jan 23, 2013)

Found it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MILLING-...69?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2ec59a07a5


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## djh82uk (Jan 23, 2013)

Hiya

I have an AMA25LV from amadeal in the UK.  This is the same machine as the TM20V I beleive, but likely has some differences.  I am very happy with the machine and is nice and sturdy.  They are rebadged Weiss mills.  I paid extra for a powerfeed and a Sino DRO and it's been a pleasure to work with.  I have also used a Taig Mill, X2 and the standard X3 and I prefer the Weiss/AMA/TM over all of them.  And over here are at least they are generally cheaper.

Although mine came with MT3 taper.

Thanks

DJH


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## rodw (Jan 23, 2013)

Glad you found it Mark, DJH Good feedback if it is the same one. Still waiting for a reply from Titan though. Maybe I got the email wrong. I have seen the power feed unit in overseas listings but not available here.

Mark You could always buy my 3-in-1 which is listed for sale on eBay at the moment. 
Might be a bit far to come and pick up though! Whats 2500 km between friends!


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## trumpy81 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mark, if it's any consolation, I have measured up my machine for the DRO. I plan to order it later this morning. Still haven't decided whether to go with the Meister BOLTS3 (I have a Meister ARC2 on the lathe) or with this one:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251216617269?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

The Axis travels for the TM45FG are as follows:

Y-Axis = 240mm from stop to stop. (Not enough if you ask me )
X-Axis = 550mm from stop to stop. (I'm a little disappointed about that, would have sworn it was more  I guess the 800mm table makes it seem like more.)
Z-Axis = 130mm from stop to stop. (Quill only, the head moves considerably more.)


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## rodw (Jan 24, 2013)

Andy, when I get to adding DRO's I probably would go to the DRO store. However, they Might be cheaper direct, rather than eBay. http://www.thedrostore.com/

Got the TM20V price. $1690, stand $235, shipping $113, optional insurance 2% of the value of goods.

That puts the price $200 under H&F's special pricing they have going this month for a Sx3 and stand. Decisions, decisions! 

Paid for my lathe yesterday, will pick it up today so will see if H&F have a bit more in them while I am spending money with them. I noticed that the Titan only has 50mm quill travel which might be a pain for me if I am ditching my drill press.

Andy, what side of Brissy are you?


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## wm460 (Jan 24, 2013)

rodw said:


> Glad you found it Mark, DJH Good feedback if it is the same one. Still waiting for a reply from Titan though. Maybe I got the email wrong. I have seen the power feed unit in overseas listings but not available here.
> 
> Mark You could always buy my 3-in-1 which is listed for sale on eBay at the moment.
> Might be a bit far to come and pick up though! Whats 2500 km between friends!



Unfortunly the 3-in-1 is way to big for the limited space I have in my shed 

Found this on www.machines4u.com.au

http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/MILL-DRILL-POWER-FEED-240V-no-transformer-needed-/63085/

I just got a couple emails from Titain they are just you tube vidios about a CNC machine.


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## wm460 (Jan 24, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> Mark, if it's any consolation, I have measured up my machine for the DRO. I plan to order it later this morning. Still haven't decided whether to go with the Meister BOLTS3 (I have a Meister ARC2 on the lathe) or with this one:
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251216617269?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
> 
> The Axis travels for the TM45FG are as follows:
> ...




Andy, That is the mob that I bought my DRO for my lathe from, I was thinking of the same for the mill when I get it,so it will not be confusing.

Unfortunaly the TM45FG will be to big for my shed I reckon, will measure up better on weekend.


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## narrowgauger (Jan 24, 2013)

Andy

when buying from Titan ensure that you are completely satisfied with the guarantee to the extent that I would insist on a 24 month guarantee period.  Ask me why I know.

If you are buying a SIEG machine, the mob in Adelaide are by far the best price for the machine & shipping.  $ 850 for the SX2 plus $80 delivery beats the Titan price for the same machine by around $ 300.

Bernard


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## wm460 (Jan 24, 2013)

rodw said:


> Andy, when I get to adding DRO's I probably would go to the DRO store. However, they Might be cheaper direct, rather than eBay. http://www.thedrostore.com/
> 
> Got the TM20V price. $1690, stand $235, shipping $113, optional insurance 2% of the value of goods.
> 
> ...



Rod, did you have a look at the TM30v   it has 80mm quill travel.

H& F should give you a good discount on a mill after what you have spent there/


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## rodw (Jan 24, 2013)

I spoke to stuart at Titan again, he said he has sold X3's in the past and explained the differences. Main ones are bigger gib screws and an enclosed column v's the X3's channel type which is the source of most complaints about stiffness.



wm460 said:


> Rod, did you have a look at the TM30v   it has 80mm quill travel.



I asked Stuart about it and he says he does not bring htem in any more. He did not like the way that they were put together and the motor burned out brushes vs the 20V's brushless that eliminates this.



wm460 said:


> H& F should give you a good discount on a mill after what you have spent there/



That is a conversation I will have later today.


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## rodw (Jan 25, 2013)

Well, after a lot of thought and a conversation with H&F which saved me a few dollars, I dropped in on Chris a few houses down from me as he has a SX3 set up for CNC to get an opinion on the SX3. He was pretty happy with it and told me about somebody in Perth who reinforced the column with a lump of steel but that is not an option for him because the column is full of CNC electronics. I have seen photos somewhere of this mod. He reckoned that it has plenty of power for fairly large tools (1" is no worries). He said he has a new CNC program that does very agressive roughing cuts, the SX3 handles it but it fairly screams! The finish of some of his milled parts looked pretty good. Anyway, after talking to him, I picked up my borrowed a trailer and went back to Hare and Forbes and bought one of these suckers!

H&F tried to load it on my 7'x4' trailer with the lathe but it hung over a few inches and they reckoned the stand was in the same sized crate so I have to go back to pick it up in the morning. It will be a big weekend I think! And I am not back to work until Wednesday!

I decided that having the same MT3 taper on the lathe tailstock and the mill might let me interchange chucks etc between the machines. Also, the SX3 has a longer quill travel (80mm from memory over the Titan's 50mm) which might be an advantage. Local support is also a consideration. I decided that it is unlikely that I will hit the SX3's limits with the stuff I do.

When this thread started, I had no intention of buying a mill but the original strategy I came up with seems to have paid off. My old lathe sells on eBay tomorrow night and it will cover about half of the $2250 I have paid for the mill and stand. the salesman said if I wanted any tooling to see him and he'd make sure I'd get 10% off.


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## trumpy81 (Jan 25, 2013)

rodw said:


> Andy, when I get to adding DRO's I probably would go to the DRO store. However, they Might be cheaper direct, rather than eBay. http://www.thedrostore.com/
> 
> Got the TM20V price. $1690, stand $235, shipping $113, optional insurance 2% of the value of goods.
> 
> ...



Rod, I went with the Meister because the scale dimensions are slightly smaller than those offered by thedroshop and because I already know what to expect from the Meister. I checked both their websites and they didn't seem to offer much of an advantage over their eBay prices. Not enough to squibble about anyhow ... lol

That's not a bad price for the TM20V. Stuart seems to have the shipping prices sorted too. I considered his shipping to be fair at least, IE: no markup on it.

Hit H&F for everything you can get ... lol

I'm on the southside but i did live on the northside for quite a while from the early 80's to late 90's. I had to move down here for work though. At least it's better than Townsville ... lol


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## trumpy81 (Jan 25, 2013)

wm460 said:


> Andy, That is the mob that I bought my DRO for my lathe from, I was thinking of the same for the mill when I get it,so it will not be confusing.
> 
> Unfortunaly the TM45FG will be to big for my shed I reckon, will measure up better on weekend.



Mark that's what I was considering also with the DRO's, so I went with the Meister BOLTS3. It should arrive in a couple of weeks.

Maybe now is a good time for a shed cleanup ... lol It's amazing what you can squeeze in sometimes ... lol

I didn't think I'd have room for the engine crane I had to buy in order to shift the mill ... but I found room 

I had the same problem trying to work out where I would put the mill. It's not in the ideal position but at least I have plenty of clearance around it. It did require a lot of shuffling of stuff and now my 3in1 sheet metal rolls live out in the garden shed 

What I really need is a materials rack,but I have nowhere to put it. At present, I'm tripping over my long stock on the floor and it's driving me nuts. I could cut some of it into shorter lengths but knowing my luck I'd need a piece 50mm longer ... lol


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## trumpy81 (Jan 25, 2013)

narrowgauger said:


> Andy
> 
> when buying from Titan ensure that you are completely satisfied with the guarantee to the extent that I would insist on a 24 month guarantee period.  Ask me why I know.
> 
> ...



Bernard, when buying Chinese made machinery one should not expect good warranty on it. Stuart simply imports them from China and although he is obligated to provide warranty, he certainly has no control over quality.

There have been many horror stories related to Chinese machinery but in this day and age if you want quality you have to pay for it and unfortunately most of the good stuff is well overpriced.

I'd love to have a couple of Okuma CNC machines sitting here, but I guess I'll have to make do with my Sherline CNC machines ... lol


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## rodw (Jan 25, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> I'm on the southside. I had to move down here for work though. At least it's better than Townsville ... lol



I'm also southside at Algester, might run into you one day then.



trumpy81 said:


> What I really need is a materials rack,but I have nowhere to put it. At present, I'm tripping over my long stock on the floor and it's driving me nuts. I could cut some of it into shorter lengths but knowing my luck I'd need a piece 50mm longer ... lol



I got some 50x50 galvanised SHS and welded one up along the side of the shed. Been there for about 18 months and STILL have not put  roof on it that was part of the plan.


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## Cogsy (Jan 25, 2013)

narrowgauger said:


> If you are buying a SIEG machine, the mob in Adelaide are by far the best price for the machine & shipping.  $ 850 for the SX2 plus $80 delivery beats the Titan price for the same machine by around $ 300.


 
But be careful of them. "the mob in Adelaide" I bought my machine off only offer a 30 day warranty...


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## rodw (Jan 26, 2013)

Cogsy said:


> But be careful of them. "the mob in Adelaide" I bought my machine off only offer a 30 day warranty...



I think this is relevant when dealing with Titan too. While they may offer a longer warranty, you are dealing with a one man band without a retail outlet who is setting his prices to get under the others.

So come on guys, stop stuffing around and pick one!







I have to say I am very impressed with the Seig after cleaning it up after lunch today except that they use far to much grease! I did print out the UK instructions on how to prepare one but decided not to go the extremes they do but did pull the back off it so I could clean up the column.






What a day! it took 12 hours to clean up two machines (but I did go to H&F to pick up the mill and its stand). I have not used it yet, still to get it in the shed but at minimum speed, you can't hear it running!

I found out that  you don't need to take the covers off the back like I did because you  can undo 4 screws and pull the back of the column off with all the electronics in it and just leave the cables connected and put it beside the mill.






Look how much kerosene I have used today!


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## trumpy81 (Jan 27, 2013)

rodw said:


> I have to say I am very impressed with the Seig after cleaning it up after lunch today except that they use far to much grease! I did print out the UK instructions on how to prepare one but decided not to go the extremes they do but did pull the back off it so I could clean up the column.



Rod, that is a nice looking mill and lathe you have there. How on earth are you going to squeeze them into that tiny 'shed'?

I'm in Kingston BTW. A stone's throw away ... lol

Your 'shed' is my garden shed ... sheesh ... lol


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## rodw (Jan 28, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> Rod, that is a nice looking mill and lathe you have there. How on earth are you going to squeeze them into that tiny 'shed'?
> 
> I'm in Kingston BTW. A stone's throw away ... lol
> 
> Your 'shed' is my garden shed ... sheesh ... lol



They are both in! And I have used my lathe, bandsaw, welder and mill since squeezing the new gear in and it is all good. 
Only problem is the lathe is a bit too far away from the bench now 

As you can guess, the choice of mills was very easy for me, The Seig was the only one I could squeeze in! The 6" wider table on the  Titan TM20V might have been a deal breaker so in the end, I was not game to risk getting one shipped up to find that out!


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## trumpy81 (Jan 29, 2013)

th_wwp

Rod, the Sieg looks to be a capable mill, you shouldn't have any problems building engines with it. It may require a little more planning though.

Have you thought about CNC'ing the Sieg?


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## rodw (Jan 30, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> th_wwp
> 
> Rod, the Sieg looks to be a capable mill, you shouldn't have any problems building engines with it. It may require a little more planning though.
> 
> Have you thought about CNC'ing the Sieg?



Andy, thanks, I have a neighbour who has gone down this route with the same mill and he has spent $10k on Solidworks software. I have seen the CNC Conversion kits to do it and they come in at $4k

For the last two nights I have played with Alibre Design to design a carriage lock for the lathe and torn my hair out with it. I probably could have made the part by now! I think I will look at Solidworks as well.

So in answer to your question, maybe, but it will be a long time before the coffers refill and I am up to speed with the software side of things.


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## RManley (Jan 30, 2013)

Im pretty pleased with my SX3 but be prepared for bent z axis gibs with miss-matched tapers. And have plenty of shims ready to get the coloulm vetical to the table.  I had to shim it 8 thou on one side!  

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y7c6A6gEBmo

If he can do this on a X2, then anything is possible on the SX3 (Im going to have a go but at a much later date)

Rob.


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## wm460 (Jan 30, 2013)

Congratulations on you new lathe and mill Rod.


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## rodw (Jan 31, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> th_wwp



Trumpy, sorry, I missed this, here you go


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## trumpy81 (Jan 31, 2013)

rodw said:


> Andy, thanks, I have a neighbour who has gone down this route with the same mill and he has spent $10k on Solidworks software. I have seen the CNC Conversion kits to do it and they come in at $4k
> 
> For the last two nights I have played with Alibre Design to design a carriage lock for the lathe and torn my hair out with it. I probably could have made the part by now! I think I will look at Solidworks as well.
> 
> So in answer to your question, maybe, but it will be a long time before the coffers refill and I am up to speed with the software side of things.



Rod, forget SolidWorks. It's a good program and I have used it a few times but it's not worth the money for hobby use. If you were in a business, maybe ...

Stay with Alibre or grab a student copy of Autodesk Inventor (I use Inventor, freeby! PM me for details). Alibre have hobbyist pricing at least. For CAM, take a look at CamBam, it's very capable and relatively cheap too or write your own g-code, it's not that hard, just labourious ... lol

$4K is that for servo's?

You could do it a lot cheaper than that. Skip the ballscrews and nuts, they would be nice but not absolutely necessary. Any backlash can be compensated for with a little extra g-code and Mach3 (or 4 if it ever arrives ... lol)

If you go this route I would recommend you strip the X,Y&Z axis and make sure the gibs and nuts etc. are all in proper order. And because you also have a lathe, there's no reason why you couldn't make your own anti-backlash nuts from Acetal or similar.

Use a Gecko 540 and suitable steppers. It wont be a speed machine, but then it wont wear out as fast either ... lol


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## trumpy81 (Jan 31, 2013)

rodw said:


> Trumpy, sorry, I missed this, here you go



Wow! ... now the Sieg looks positively tiny ... lol Still a nice looking machine though. I like the lathe too, has it got a powered cross slide?

I like the Sieg's Z-axis handle position, much better place for it than on my TM45FG. I've got a garage door opener that should take care of that problem though ... lol


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## rodw (Jan 31, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> Wow! ... now the Sieg looks positively tiny ... lol Still a nice looking machine though. I like the lathe too, has it got a powered cross slide?



Trumpy yes, you can see that it was an easy decision for me which (tiny) mill I purchased. Totally dictated by the room (or lack) of available! It took me weeks trying to work out wher to put things if I upgraded my lathe/mill to separate machines and eventually I stuck my drill press where the Seig is and it fitted!

Yes the AL320G has a power cross slide but still has change gears for threading and one belt to select high and low ranges (each of which have 6 speeds). One thing I have seen is that the longitudinal feed dial is in increments of 0.5mm not the 0.05mm I had on my last machine. Took a while to work this out. When I actually checked it out, each division is actually 1.0mm so I was out by a factor of 20 for a while!  

So do people use the compound if they want fine control? Its dial is in 0.02mm increments. 

That is the driver for my carriage stop project  and I decided to play with Alibre while I was waiting for some more tooling to arrive.

I spent another few hours tearing my hair out with Alibre last night building a simple rectangular piece 24mm x 30mm x 5mm with one hole in it and trying to place it in an assembly and finally worked out how to flip, rotate and mate to another part. The printing features seem to be very poor and the carefully placed dimensions I placed on the original 2D sketch have gone. Without CNC, this will be important for me I think. 20 odd years ago, I designed a house floorplan using 2D CAD which was probably DOS based back then and it was so much easier than this. Hopefully, it will eventually fall into place for me.

I should be able to get an educational license of Solidworks which is about $150 a year but of course there are no guarantees it will make my life easier and you can't get a trial of it.

Thanks for all the info on CNC, It opened a few doors for me but it is well into the future. The $4k kit is a complete bolt on conversion with ball screws so I guess convenience has a price! I think I need to get to understand how to do stuff manually before diving into CNC even though I have done heaps of programming and low level interfacing of computers. I will know where to go when I am ready if I don't just stop at DRO's which is my current plan.


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## rodw (Jan 31, 2013)

rodw said:


> I should be able to get an educational license of Solidworks



.... or a free educational copy of Inventor, thanks for the heads up Trumpy, downloading now...

I wonder how I will go with it tonight.


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## trumpy81 (Jan 31, 2013)

rodw said:


> Trumpy yes, you can see that it was an easy decision for me which (tiny) mill I purchased. Totally dictated by the room (or lack) of available! It took me weeks trying to work out wher to put things if I upgraded my lathe/mill to separate machines and eventually I stuck my drill press where the Seig is and it fitted!



Knowing your shed space, I can fully understand your decision to go with the Sieg. It fits in nicely, actually!



rodw said:


> Yes the AL320G has a power cross slide but still has change gears for threading and one belt to select high and low ranges (each of which have 6 speeds). One thing I have seen is that the longitudinal feed dial is in increments of 0.5mm not the 0.05mm I had on my last machine. Took a while to work this out. When I actually checked it out, each division is actually 1.0mm so I was out by a factor of 20 for a while!
> 
> So do people use the compound if they want fine control? Its dial is in 0.02mm increments.



My lathe is the same Rod, 0.5mm per increment. I have enough space between increments to add 0.1mm lines. I don't know how effective it would be though?

With the DRO it doesn't really matter though 

Using the compound, It depends on what you are machining, but for fine work and small tolerances then yes, use the compound, set at either 90 or 45 degrees. At 45 degrees you will actually halve the input. That can save a few oh-oh moments I tell ya ... lol 



rodw said:


> That is the driver for my carriage stop project  and I decided to play with Alibre while I was waiting for some more tooling to arrive.
> 
> I spent another few hours tearing my hair out with Alibre last night building a simple rectangular piece 24mm x 30mm x 5mm with one hole in it and trying to place it in an assembly and finally worked out how to flip, rotate and mate to another part. The printing features seem to be very poor and the carefully placed dimensions I placed on the original 2D sketch have gone. Without CNC, this will be important for me I think. 20 odd years ago, I designed a house floorplan using 2D CAD which was probably DOS based back then and it was so much easier than this. Hopefully, it will eventually fall into place for me.



With Alibre, you need to stop thinking in terms of CAD drawing and start thinking in terms of shapes. Almost all parts can be broken down into a series of shapes. Alternatively, think of it as a block that you will carve out your part from.

You will find Inventor is similar to Alibre, but much more powerful!



rodw said:


> I should be able to get an educational license of Solidworks which is about $150 a year but of course there are no guarantees it will make my life easier and you can't get a trial of it.



Autodesk had a similar deal for Inventor and when I was at TAFE I was told it would cost the same, $150 per year, but after being given all the relevant data I found I was able to download any Autodesk software for nicks 

Onya Autodesk!



rodw said:


> Thanks for all the info on CNC, It opened a few doors for me but it is well into the future. The $4k kit is a complete bolt on conversion with ball screws so I guess convenience has a price! I think I need to get to understand how to do stuff manually before diving into CNC even though I have done heaps of programming and low level interfacing of computers. I will know where to go when I am ready if I don't just stop at DRO's which is my current plan.



Yeah I'm going the DRO route with the larger machines myself. I have CNC on both Sherlines and I like it, but by the time I get done with the code, most of the time, I could have cut the darn parts by hand!

It comes in handy when you have parts that are difficult to impossible to cut manually though, which is often the case with some of my designs


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## trumpy81 (Jan 31, 2013)

wm460 said:


> Congratulations on you new lathe and mill Rod.



Mark, how's it going with the mill hunting?

Have you been busy with that tape measure yet?


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## rodw (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks Trumpy, the DRO won't be far away. CTC shipped my QCTP and replacement ER32 collets and some more milling tooling today so I should have by next weekend I hope. That's why I have not done much in the shed and have played with software instead. 

I get the whole 3d drawing shape thing, seems pretty easy to draw a shape and then extrude and cut holes etc. I just fought with Alibre with not being able to set guide lines or being able to select the centre of a shape or the ability to key in dimensions to put a hole where i wanted  sometimes. I watched some Inventor tutorials today and it works more like I would have expected so fingers crossed. Pretty generous of Autocad to give software away for education for free. Glad I have a .edu.au email address at work


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## rodw (Feb 1, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> Mark, how's it going with the mill hunting?
> 
> Have you been busy with that tape measure yet?



Mark, If it helps you, in my small space, I put my mill diagonally near the door and because I have a high shelf behind it, there is plenty of room for the cross slide to go under the shelf and out the door if it has to. The shorter table of the Seig in comparison to the Titan is an advantage for me I think!


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## trumpy81 (Feb 1, 2013)

rodw said:


> Thanks Trumpy, the DRO won't be far away. CTC shipped my QCTP and replacement ER32 collets and some more milling tooling today so I should have by next weekend I hope. That's why I have not done much in the shed and have played with software instead.
> 
> I get the whole 3d drawing shape thing, seems pretty easy to draw a shape and then extrude and cut holes etc. I just fought with Alibre with not being able to set guide lines or being able to select the centre of a shape or the ability to key in dimensions to put a hole where i wanted  sometimes. I watched some Inventor tutorials today and it works more like I would have expected so fingers crossed. Pretty generous of Autocad to give software away for education for free. Glad I have a .edu.au email address at work



Rod, my DRO should arrive Wed 06/02/2013, Fedex emailed me yesterday 

It's been a while since I used Alibre, but I remember that it has a similar work flow to Inventor. I did find it a little frustrating because it does things differently to Inventor, but if I had to, I'm sure I could adapt to it.

Solidworks on the other hand, is a completely different kettle of fish. Very powerful program, but I was never comfortable with it's work flow. Everything felt a bit alien to me ... lol

Many folks use it and produce some amazing stuff with it, but I just never really took to it in the same way I took to Inventor. 

Autodesk seem to be pretty savvy. By giving away the software they get free beta testers and reporters. Of course, they mostly ignore our cry's to fix things but hey, we can't complain really ... lol

If I can figure out how, I will send you an invite to join our Google+ Inventor community. We have quite a few members ranging from beginners to full time professionals. It's a great place to ask Inventor related questions and get professional help with it.

I've been using Inventor for over ten years now, still far from being an expert though ... lol

I've added a pic of my Whittle V8 done in Inventor Pro 2013. This is the spark ignition version


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## rodw (Feb 2, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> Rod, my DRO should arrive Wed 06/02/2013, Fedex emailed me yesterday


 
Which one did you get?

STOP PRESS: I made my  longitudinal stop today! Inventor never installed so i gave up on it and tried a demo of Solidworks which I found better than Alibre.

Stuff the software, I just got in and did it after carefully calibrating the eyeometer  to the plans and just reverted to the drawing for the important stuff. Still got to get the right bolt for fine adjustment. This was my first part made on a mill! 

I took some pics but still have to get them up on photobucket.


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## trumpy81 (Feb 2, 2013)

I got the Meister BOLTS3 mostly because I already have a Meister ARC2 on the lathe. All the controls are very similar so I shouldn't have too steep a learning curve on the new DRO. I also found that the advertised scale sizes were slightly smaller than the other brand I was looking at.

Congrats on getting the stop done!

Sometimes it's quicker to get in and get 'er done ... lol

How did the mill perform? Up to your expectations or ?


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## rodw (Feb 2, 2013)

trumpy81 said:


> I got the Meister BOLTS3 mostly because I already have a Meister ARC2 on the lathe. All the controls are very similar so I shouldn't have too steep a learning curve on the new DRO. I also found that the advertised scale sizes were slightly smaller than the other brand I was looking at.
> 
> Congrats on getting the stop done!
> 
> ...



Trumpy, thanks, the lathe DRO is getting closer, maybe in a month or so. The Meister is another option. 

I thought the Seig did a pretty good job considering I was using a chuck to hold the tools. I cut the full length of the end mill (30mm) and the finish was not great, but that was probably a bit ambitious. I think it will easily cut slots 5mm at a time, 1 mm was a walk in the park but 2mm made it work a bit more. My finishing cuts were about 0.5mm. It certainly is a big step up from the milling head on my old lathe.

I like the digital readout on the quill, it was very handy. Also the constant variable speed is great too. I probably could have saved time by using the bandsaw a bit more but I did a trial of the V cut along the way in the piece I milled out for practice. It only takes 1-2 jobs to build confidence now I have had machines for a while. The prospect of fitting a DRO scared the day lights out of me a year ago!


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## trumpy81 (Feb 2, 2013)

Yeah, it's funny how the confidence builds.  You've done a nice job on the stop.


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