# Whats the General Concensus on Unimat SL?



## arborpress (Apr 29, 2013)

I have my eyes on a Unimat SL bed and headstock and I'm thinking I would like to restore it as a fun project to use until I get a bigger lathe. First of all, I understand that they tend to go for quite a bit of money. Is this justified, or is it just an overrated lathe?
I tend to like the idea of being able to replace ways for 25 bucks, and so on. It seems that the smaller parts are relatively cheap, but then again, there isn't much to it. 
Does anybody use a Unimat for building small scale engines? I'd be interested in what you have to say


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## gbritnell (Apr 29, 2013)

When I started in the hobby many years ago I had a Unimat SL. I made quite a few parts on it but it's hard working on something that small. All your tooling needs to be short (drills etc). If I had a choice I would look for something like a Sherline or something similar. 
gbritnell


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## kuhncw (Apr 29, 2013)

I agree with George.   In that size of lathe, a Sherline or Taig will be a much better option and attachments are much more available.

Regards,

Chuck


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## arborpress (Apr 30, 2013)

That makes sense. I looked into the taig and sherline lathes. I still have mixed feelings though. If anything, the taig is definitly more in my price range, I just wish there were used ones available. I'd hate to spend extra money on a brand new lathe that I may grow out of, or not use much, or not like. I'm not sure. I certainly have a lot to think about


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## motmaluk (Apr 30, 2013)

Have you thought of one of the Harbor freight mini lathes?. I bought one a few years back and after some serious "fettling" it became a useful addition to my shop. I use a 1928 Sheldon long bed as a main lathe but the little Harbor freight lathe comes into its own for the small jobs.


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## /// (Apr 30, 2013)

arborpress said:


> If anything, the taig is definitly more in my price range, I just wish there were used ones available.



The lack of available used Taigs and Sherlines is probably a pretty good indication of how much the owners are unwilling to part with them.
For their size, there is no better in the price/performance category.


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## arborpress (Apr 30, 2013)

/// said:


> The lack of available used Taigs and Sherlines is probably a pretty good indication of how much the owners are unwilling to part with them.
> For their size, there is no better in the price/performance category.


Thats a good point.
And I've heard a lot of good things about those harbor freight lathes. It really surprised me, considering all of the sub par experiences I've had with some of their products. Its good to hear that they are generally well liked for small stuff.


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## goldstar31 (Apr 30, 2013)

It is worth looking at what Gerald Wingrove achieved with his SL.

His web site is there and so are his books about what he did.

Again, the Unimat site contains many write ups on what can be achieved. Again, some of the older books are still available to download.

However- and it is a big however; this is a part lathe and probably has zero tooling and missing bits. By the time that one tots up the real cost to get the lathe -all singing and all dancing it may not be such a bargain or even a proposition.

Some years ago, I bought a MJ-189 which is a Unimat 3 clone which came complete with all sorts of goodies including chucks, collets and whatever. 
I bought it ( for old age) and this is part of the subject now for the Raspberry Pi discussion. A year or so ago, someone wanted it and I offered it for a mere £250 which was exactly what I paid. The guy fiddled and twiddled like all good tire kickers, bought it, complained and I handed his money back.

Still there in its box.- virtually as new. Conclusion? Nowhere near in comparison with my last Pultra 1750 complete  with even more goodies.
Nor, and I would affirm, the present lot of alternatives suggested are not in the same league either. Pultra was or is a Smart and Brown- and took us through a war. On the other side, Emco did much the same but not with the Unimat.

Yer pays yer money and yer takes your choice!


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## xpylonracer (Apr 30, 2013)

I have an SL and have made some very useful bits on it, accuracy is down to setting the headstock exactly true to the ways, absolutely parallel turning is possible. Great with small diameters but of course you have to use depths of cut and speeds to suit bot the material and the lathe. I have many accessories with the unit and the whole lot will soon be on sale.
Those who suggest Sheerline are giving sound advice.
Unimat SL are very overpriced and more of a collectors item, BUT you can do most model engineering work with a good set-up, size of parts may be a problem in larger scales.
see my lathe here:http://s1050.photobucket.com/user/xpylonracer/library/Emco Unimat SL lathe?sort=6&page=1
Rgds, Emgee


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## arborpress (Apr 30, 2013)

The Unimats sure are pretty though, arn't they? Just as I began seriously considering buying the Taig basic set, I think I found something a bit more versatile. Nearby is a guy selling a South Bend 9, asking for 200 bucks. I think he thinks it's just some old wood lathe. It appears to have the change gears, countershaft, and lots of accessories so I think I'm gonna jump on that instead of getting a mini for now


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## Wizard69 (Apr 30, 2013)

arborpress said:


> That makes sense. I looked into the taig and sherline lathes. I still have mixed feelings though. If anything, the taig is definitly more in my price range, I just wish there were used ones available. I'd hate to spend extra money on a brand new lathe that I may grow out of, or not use much, or not like. I'm not sure. I certainly have a lot to think about



A micro lathe, watchmakers lathe or what have you, might not be something you will grow out of even if you think your interests tend to larger projects.   I've seen these sorts of lathes in commercial machine shops, they are very useful for the extremely small.   If you are to go this route look at modern approaches like the Sherlines or TAIG's.   Most of the machines mentioned in this thread are of good quality but these two models are well served with parts and after market accessories.


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## Wizard69 (Apr 30, 2013)

arborpress said:


> The Unimats sure are pretty though, arn't they? Just as I began seriously considering buying the Taig basic set, I think I found something a bit more versatile. Nearby is a guy selling a South Bend 9, asking for 200 bucks. I think he thinks it's just some old wood lathe. It appears to have the change gears, countershaft, and lots of accessories so I think I'm gonna jump on that instead of getting a mini for now



Proof positive that some people are very lucky.   At that price the lathe is worth a rebuild if required.   The likely hood though is that it needs nothing more than a clean up.


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## arborpress (Apr 30, 2013)

Wizard69 said:


> Proof positive that some people are very lucky.   At that price the lathe is worth a rebuild if required.   The likely hood though is that it needs nothing more than a clean up.


That's what I'm hoping for!

Edit: I guess I'm not getting a South Bend 9. It is one of my biggest pet peves when someone doesn't delete old Craigslist postings that are no longer available.


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## goldstar31 (May 1, 2013)

arborpress said:


> That's what I'm hoping for!
> 
> Edit: I guess I'm not getting a South Bend 9. It is one of my biggest pet peves when someone doesn't delete old Craigslist postings that are no longer available.


 
Shame- shame because I was going to tell you how to change the ball game because an auxiliary unit such as a Unimat- perhaps incomplete is great on a bigger lathe. I have a thing- or actually two things called 'Potts spindles' which you probably never knew existed.


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## arborpress (May 1, 2013)

goldstar31 said:


> Shame- shame because I was going to tell you how to change the ball game because an auxiliary unit such as a Unimat- perhaps incomplete is great on a bigger lathe. I have a thing- or actually two things called 'Potts spindles' which you probably never knew existed.


So you're saying that if I had a big lathe and at least the headstock of a little one I could build a Potts spindle?


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## goldstar31 (May 1, 2013)

If you have a supplementary spindle/motor as in Unimat headstock you don't need a Potts spindle. It will do exactly what the old timers used such things for.

Suppose you have a engine cylinder in the lathe chuck or faceplate- all bored and parallel and want- as a second operation a set of holding down bolt holes? With a Uni or Potts or whatever, you can leave the lot in situ whilst you drill, tap and whatever, the bolt holes and use the lathe spindle itself as a dividing head.

Thomas wrote in one of his great contributions of how he made a drilling/staking and tapping tool. In a friend of mine's write up, he describes how another worker put the lot on a Myford saddle. 

It's not new or anything as old ornamental turning lathes had these sort of things driven from overhead shafting.

Me, I simply have both Potts spindles- I gave my other one to a mate but I can drill, grind or whatever from the lathe saddle.

Does this make sense to you now?

Norman


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## arborpress (May 1, 2013)

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

I think I'm going to go for the taig. I'm going to buy the basic starter set, get some pullies, and find a treadmill motor and controller.
For a DC variable speed motor, do I still need the stepped pullies, or does the motor have enough torque that I can just go with a single ratio?


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## goldstar31 (May 1, 2013)

Perhaps someone else can answer, please.

I got a story that the Taig was actually an actuator of sorts from some aircraft which someone had re-developed. I'm not bothered one way or another but it made me think.
Today, I'd settle for a lathe with screwcutting abilities if I was wanting to do any boring of model engine cylinders. If you look at some of the other postings here, you will find that there are some very funny questions about reaming and boring that need not have arisen.
I apologise for accidentally running over some sacred cows but I'd be heading for a cheap( ish) and nasty-ish Chinese lathe which comes with both chucks and a faceplate and the ability to take a set of cheap-ish collets and screwcuts and  has  fine feeds under power in both imperial and metric dimensions. 

Not perfect or anywhere near perfect but adequate to make more of its own tooling and goodies without having a coronary or nervous breakdown for the user.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was going to list what eventually ended up on my old battered mangle of a Myford-- and became a little embarrassed.

Go for a 918 or something similar.


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## arborpress (May 1, 2013)

From what I understand, you can get a powered carriage feed for the Taig.


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## kuhncw (May 1, 2013)

Hi ArborPress,

Perhaps you've been out to Nick Carter's site, but I'll list it anyway.  He has a tremendous amount of information regarding Taig lathes and mills on the site.  http://www.cartertools.com/

Regards,

Chuck


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## arborpress (May 2, 2013)

Yes, I've been on his site quite a bit. All of his modifications are very interesting. That's where I got the idea of using a treadmill motor


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## Wizard69 (May 3, 2013)

goldstar31 said:


> Perhaps someone else can answer, please.
> 
> I got a story that the Taig was actually an actuator of sorts from some aircraft which someone had re-developed. I'm not bothered one way or another but it made me think.


There is nothing about the TAIG's design that would imply that.   


> Today, I'd settle for a lathe with screwcutting abilities if I was wanting to do any boring of model engine cylinders. If you look at some of the other postings here, you will find that there are some very funny questions about reaming and boring that need not have arisen.


These days it makes more sense to consider electronic alternatives for feed and screw cutting.  


> I apologise for accidentally running over some sacred cows but I'd be heading for a cheap( ish) and nasty-ish Chinese lathe which comes with both chucks and a faceplate and the ability to take a set of cheap-ish collets and screwcuts and  has  fine feeds under power in both imperial and metric dimensions.


These are certainly acceptable as long as your goals aren't precision machining on very small parts. One of the reasons I see the various Mini lathes as a good long term investment is their utility to make those very small parts.  Even if your model engineering interests tend to larger devices, requiring a larger lathe, the mini lathes can still be useful for making smaller parts.  


> Not perfect or anywhere near perfect but adequate to make more of its own tooling and goodies without having a coronary or nervous breakdown for the user.


Huh?    Every lathe requires some self built tooling to be useful.   Half the effort in building up a shop involves equipping your machinery with the accessories to make it useful.  


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I was going to list what eventually ended up on my old battered mangle of a Myford-- and became a little embarrassed.
> 
> Go for a 918 or something similar.



Or just buy a lathe that fits your interest.


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## goldstar31 (May 4, 2013)

I simply do not know whether the comments above were really aimed at me or for the benefit of the poster. 

I tried to direct my remarks to someone who had informed the rest of us that he had the chance of 'part of a early Unimat' and then 'a possible South Bend'  and such nebulous concepts as a Potts( of which there were three different designs) and so on.

Moving into the realms of 'electronic assistance' to make single models of what was  simple dated machinery was not in my answers.

I can only apologise if I actually failed to grasp the need of the poster.


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## Tin Falcon (May 4, 2013)

I know late in the game .
My brother purchases a uni mat  in about 1974. IMHO nice little lathes and they are hobby lathes so imho very few were heavily used and therefore not worn out. the flip side it seems these old lathes are popular with collector so follks are asking top money like 600 800 for well tooled units in with good original paint.
I found an American l edestal machinex 5 cheap actually a couple of them but they are orphans and you need to make tools or adapters.  

Taig and sherline are made in USA current production and lots of tooling available. 
Tin


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## arborpress (May 8, 2013)

I stumbled upon Clisby Mini machines today. has anybody ever heard of them? Apparently they were in production in the 70s and have resumed production. very cheap, even cheaper than the taig. I believe they are australian. http://www.precisiontools.com.sg/CLISBYMINILATHES.htm

Supposedly, this Clisby fellow is the guy who designed the sherline.


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## /// (May 8, 2013)

Clisby lathes are small..... VERY small.
I seem to remember an announcement years ago on the Clisby website that the family were no longer manufacturing the machines and will only be selling any remaining parts until they are all gone. The website used to list the available parts but is now just a main page.
The family's ebay store has a few parts, def not all tho, not enough to piece together a machine. http://stores.ebay.com.au/Clisby-Products

A couple of links worth reading:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/clisby/
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f13/clisby-lathe-why-kludge-needs-new-glasses-2363/

EDIT:
By the way... on the website you linked to, the Sherline pricelist has not been updated since 2003.
I'm willing to bet the entire website has not been updated in 10 years.


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## arborpress (May 8, 2013)

Ah, good catch


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## Wizard69 (May 8, 2013)

arborpress said:


> I stumbled upon Clisby Mini machines today. has anybody ever heard of them? Apparently they were in production in the 70s and have resumed production. very cheap, even cheaper than the taig. I believe they are australian. http://www.precisiontools.com.sg/CLISBYMINILATHES.htm
> 
> Supposedly, this Clisby fellow is the guy who designed the sherline.



Nope, I have not heard of them.   Sherline has been around for a very long time though so I'd have to look into when they came to market.  

One look at those machines and you quickly realize why they are cheap.   Apparently they come with a 12VDC motor with no power supply.    It might be worth experimenting with if you have money to through away.   Personally I'd go with a more established brand or build my own.


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## clivel (May 8, 2013)

arborpress said:


> Supposedly, this Clisby fellow is the guy who designed the sherline.


There is definitely more than a little truth to that - http://www.sherline.com/sherhist.htm
Also from the same page "Harold Clisby passed away February 12, 2005 at the age of 92."


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## /// (May 8, 2013)

arborpress said:


> ...
> Apparently they were in production in the 70s and have resumed production.
> ...
> Supposedly, this Clisby fellow is the guy who designed the sherline.



Thought I might clarify one point, the 90's Clisby lathes were much smaller than those he produced in the 70's.
The 70's lathes were the progenitor for today's Sherline range. They have changed little except for essential refinements.
Apparently when Clisby produced the lathes they were top quality.
When Ron Sher attempted to mass produce the lathes, problems arose and then when Joe Martin became involved (importing them to the US for sale at Sears) he began fixing those problems for the US stock. Joe ultimately bought the company and manufacturing became an entirely US affair where Joe could maintain quality control.

A brief history of Sherline, from Harold Clisby, to Ron Sher to Joe Martin is on the Sherline website and more in the book "Tabletop Machining"


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