# MB building Upshur Farm Engines.



## Metal Butcher

Hi guys. With vacation over and other duties finished and out of the way, I'm ready and back in the shop. To start off my season I will begin by building 5 versions of I.C. engines designed by the late Hamilton Upshur. After a month of poking around for information and gathering up most of the supplies I'm starting my build's even though their are still a few problems such as the flywheels to overcome. 

I purchased a set of plans from Hamilton's daughter, and when they arrived I knew this was going to be a great project for me. Not only are the hand drawn plans easy on my eyes, they make visualizing each part very simple. I always say that if I can visualize a part in my mind than the rest is easy. Another nice feature of this plan set is that multiple versions can be built, and the plan set include building notes and construction options for parts such as the piston and crank shaft. Below is a list of the building options that I see. 

1) Horizontal water cooled 4 stroke
2) Horizontal water cooled hit-n-miss
3) F Head horizontal 4 stroke
4) F Head horizontal hit-n-miss
5) Horizontal air cooled 4 stroke
6) Horizontal air cooled hit-n-miss
7) Vertical air cooled 4 stroke
8) Vertical air cooled hit-n-miss
9) Vertical F Head 4 stroke
10) Vertical F Head hit-n-miss

You can also build customized versions of any, or all of the above! 
I think you can see why I'm so happy with these plans. Not free ($13.50), but a good value for the money spent 

Upshur Engine Works link: http://hamiltonupshur.tripod.com/

In the picture below, 20 aluminum frame plates for the 5 engines have been rough cut, milled square, and milled to final dimensions.









With snacks on hand, I'm ready for the final inspection of the frame plates. ("Honey" had to go back to the store and buy more candy... twice!) The stuff tastes Really good this year! ;D






-MB


----------



## joe d

You're not wasting any time there, MB. I'll be watching with interest to see the end products.

And now, a SAFETY WARNING. Kit-kats are REALLY REALLY bad for you.

Immediately put them all in a box, and send that box to me for safe disposal. :big:

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Metal Butcher

joe d  said:
			
		

> You're not wasting any time there, MB. I'll be watching with interest to see the end products.
> 
> And now, a SAFETY WARNING. Kit-kats are REALLY REALLY bad for you.
> 
> Immediately put them all in a box, and send that box to me for safe disposal. :big:
> 
> Cheers, Joe



All boxed up and ready to ship! Rof} Rof} Rof}


----------



## 1hand

Only 5 engines at a crack.... Thm:


Will be very interesting for sure. So I can get a idea of the scale, how big are the fly wheels for these engines?


Its good to have you back friend.
Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

1hand  said:
			
		

> Only 5 engines at a crack.... Thm:
> 
> 
> Will be very interesting for sure. So I can get a idea of the scale, how big are the fly wheels for these engines?
> 
> 
> Its good to have you back friend.
> Matt



The picture used in my first post shows a full scale line drawing on a 9" x 11" sheet. I measured 7" from the tip of the spark plug to the end of the flywheel.

The flywheels for all versions are 3-1/2" diameter.

-MB


----------



## cfellows

MB, your projects are always informative and entertaining to follow. I'll be getting some snacks of my own and watch the show!

Chuck


----------



## awJCKDup

MB, I'm looking forward to watching these guys come together.
John


----------



## Royal Viking

Those are some nice plans. The art and style of a good drawing are a pleasure to use.


----------



## Metal Butcher

3) The Upshur plan set shows 2 options for a water cooled cylinder using an easy build up method of construction. I decided to make one from a solid block of 6061 aluminum. The first step was to cut an oversize blank using my 4 x 6 band saw. I lifted the saw head every 1/2" or so to add a few drops of aluminum cutting fluid. The use of a cutting fluid seems to add a lot of life to my blades.






4) Using a fly cutter in the M/D to size and square up the cylinder blank.






5) Two small bolt clearance holes were drilled through, and then the blank was bored for the cylinder liner. The larger of the two bores goes the full length of the blank minus a 1/4" of the smaller bore. This allows for water to get all the way around the cylinder if the cylinder diameter is turned at the smaller diameter except for a 1/4" of the larger end. To prevent rust and corrosion, a 'gas tank sloshing compound' (GTS) will be used on the interior of the water tank/hopper. I have some left over from a motorcycle project that I bought from Bill Hirsch.
http://www.hirschauto.com/products.asp?dept=4






6) I used a 1/2" drill bit to 'hog out' the majority of the hopper opening. This went very fast and reduced the slower process of milling out to the final dimensions. 






7) It was important to set the depth of the milling just above the two through holes for the studs that will be used to mount the cylinder assembly. If I had gone too deep, it would have created a need to re-seal the mounting studs after every dis-assembly.






8) Eight) With all the milling finished and a final inspection, my thoughts turned to a quick and simple method of creating the radius on the bottom of the water hopper. After an idea came to mind I made up a mandrel for a snug fit into the two bores of the hopper. The mandrels exposed ends were both machined to the smaller diameter.






9) After setting the cutter height .002" above the sides, I rotated the work piece roughly 10 degrees and made the first cut (Photo is at 90 degrees.) Then it was a simple matter of 'rotate-and-repeat'. I went as quickly as I could to minimize the boredom, and ended up breaking out in a sweat due to all the cranking involved. 






10) After a little filing and sanding, the end result was a very acceptable radius. 






11) After machining down one end of a cast iron bar to fit a 1" 5-C collet using a three jaw chuck, the bar was mounted in the collet chuck for boring and machining the out side dimensions.






12) With nothing specified in the plans, I decided that adding a 10 degree chamfer would be a good idea that would aid in the installation of a piston with iron ring(s) or O-ring(s). 






13) I added a 'trim bezel' to the opening on the hopper cover. I have mixed feelings about the way it looks, and installed it with a very light press fit just in-case I decide to eliminate the idea.

The cast iron 'cylinder liner' is a press fit, sealed up with red Loc-Tite. All that's needed to complete the assembly is to lap the bore.






It looks like this project might take much longer than last years average build time of two weeks. :

-MB


----------



## gbritnell

Hey Rick,
It looks like you're off to a great start. Personally I like the bezel on the top of the water hopper. I know you like to add your own touches to your work. Let me know if you run into any problems. I have placed a call to the fellow about the flywheels but haven't received an answer yet.
George


----------



## cfellows

Interesting start. I like the way you formed the curve on the hopper, although I'm not sure I have the patience to duplicate it.

Chuck


----------



## kcmillin

Hello Rick, I too like the Bezel Ring, and your method of making the radius on the hopper. It looks Great.

Kel


----------



## Metal Butcher

Thanks George. I already made a thinner bezel with a lower profile based on the hit-n-miss group picture you posted earlier. I like it better than the one I posted in picture #13, it seemed a little too 'beefy'. The new one is also round to stay a little closer to Hamilton's design, although I see a lot of them are square. I'll post a pic at a later date unless 'picture guy' shows up today. I'm hoping for the cast flywheels if your friend is willing to assist. This turning into an interesting project, I just hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew! :

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Hello Rick, I too like the Bezel Ring, and your method of making the radius on the hopper. It looks Great.
> 
> Kel



Thanks Kel. I used the same method of incremental cutting for the first time to produce a cam profile when I built 'Chucks Single'. But instead of using the vise, I used a spindex clone. Its a better method (spindex) since there is a danger in using the vise because of the constant chucking and un-chucking. Also the increments are uniform unless you have a good eye and are lucky. Swarf can creep up under the mandrel during positioning and throw a cut off. I was careful and lucky! A real machinist would cringe at some of my barbaric methods.
 Rof}

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

14) I re-designed the hopper cover bezel and made a new one. After installation I like it much better than the original one posted in picture #13. After pressing it in place I spread a thin bead of JB weld around the outer joint to blend it in with the cover. It looks much better than the bad picture that's showing an odd shadow. All I saw was the image code. Live and learn! Look out 'picture guy'! *knuppel2*






-MB


----------



## 1hand

Love the radius you put on the block. Making it look easy as usual. 

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

Morning Gents. The labor intensive method I used to create the radius on the bottom of the water hopper worked out well. However, there are other ways to achieve the same goal. I came up with a simple idea this morning that would allow the use of my spin fixture to eliminate the manual clamping, rotating, and re-clamping in the mills vise. This would be more accurate than the "eye ball" method I used. :

A slip fit mandrel could be machined up that would fit into the cylinder's bore plus an additional 3/4" to also fit into a 5-C collet. By adding two slits along its length equal to the cylinders length and at 90 degrees, the mandrel could be drilled and reamed for a tapered pin. The opposite end that would slip into the collet could be drilled for a knock out rod to meet the bottom of the tapered pin bore. I have accumulated quite a few 'Tapered Pin Reamers', and tapered pins, always wondering what they could be used for. ???

My morning visit to the "porcelain library" usually gives me plenty of time to have a cigar, let my mind wander, and come up with these ideas! :toilet:

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

14) To make two air cooled cylinders I machined a bar of 1-1/2" diameter cast iron down to 1" and machined the smaller step to .875" to fit the hole that will be bored in its supporting aluminum plate.






15) In the same set up shown in the above picture I drilled a 1/2" hole all the way through.






16) I set up a boring bar and machined the 750" cylinder bore.






17) I machined the cylinders fins using a cut off blade. The correct spacing was achieved by using my dial indicator and carriage mounted travel rod.

Cutting the fins proved to be problematic to say the least! The chatter was incredible! Every thing on the lathe bench ended up on the floor. Most of the swarf also took a hike, and bolts on my tool post started to unscrew. I hung on through the entire ordeal just to finish up the job.

Distraught with this severe set back I gave George (Gbritnell) a call for advice. He immediately offered to help and came right over to see the problem first hand, and to see what needed to be done. After a demonstration of the severe chatter problem George went to work checking out the machine and asking the needed questions to arrive at a solution. Watching Georges speed and accuracy in the checks he performed was inspiring to say the least. 

George suggested a reduction in my spindle speed was in order. It turned out that the speed I thought was the lowest was not. By adding the belt I removed years ago that connected the motor to the smaller clutch pulley, and switching the drive belt back to the clutch The spindle speed was reduced to 130 RPM. Another problem George pointed out was cutter height. I never knew I had to check and adjust cutter height. I use 1/2" cutters and cutter blocks that seemed to give me a good finish on Al and brass. The few times I used a boring bar I set it by eye. George set up blocks on the lathe bed and cross slide and determined the proper cutter height for my machine. After a little shimming, a test on cast iron using the cut-off tool proved that the problem was solved. I learned quite a bit that day, and trully appreciate the time that George spent to help me out. 

Thanks George! Your the best! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:






18) Here are the cylinder's needed for my build project of the 5 Upshur Farm Engines. From left to right. 1) Air cooled horizontal. 2) Air cooled vertical. 3) F-Head vertical. 4) F-Head horizontal. 5) Water cooled horizontal. 






19) Here I'm milling the two grooves I forgot, they cut through the fins are for the cyl and head mounting bolts.






That's all for today folks -MB


----------



## 1hand

MB where you get your cast iron from?
Looks like you get a nice finish on it.

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

1hand  said:
			
		

> MB where you get your cast iron from?
> Looks like you get a nice finish on it.
> 
> Matt



Hi Matt. The cast iron bar came from Enco. I think its listed as Gray Iron class 40. I don't know how it compares to Dura Bar (brand?) Its interesting to machine, reminds me of Rice Crispies. ;D

http://www.dura-bar.com/

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

20) I decided to have a go at making the piston rings. I bored the ID and turned the OD on a cast iron bar (Sorry no pictures, I either forgot to take them or deleted them by accident) and used a parting tool to cut off the rings. A dial indicator and travel rod arrangement was used to get each one the same width. I needed 10 rings for the project, but only enough material to cut 16 rings. I would have liked more as a safety net since cutting then them of was quick and easy. I followed Hamilton's plans that specify the ring blanks to be .003" larger than the bore. The 'X' is pointing to the first one that came off undersized in width by a few thousands.







21) I set the rings off to the side and turned my attention to making the pistons. Nothing out of the ordinary here, just your basic aluminum pistons.






22) To anneal the rings I made a fixture with a rod that would hold the rings open and gaped to the specified amount. The fixture along with the rings were placed in my heat treating furnace. The temperature was brought up to 1000-F and held for just over an hour. Treating them all together in a controlled furnace would assure that the rings would be all good, (or bad). :'( 






23) Before the rings got a good baking, I clamped each ring in my scrap filing/sawing vice and cut the split's with an Ex-acto saw. This gave me the .010" cut specified in the plans.






24) Here the rings are all lined up in tight formation for their trip to a warmer place. The nuts hold them together were snugged up by hand, just in-case one of them were to object and get bent out of shape over the temperature increase! Rof}






25) My easy bake oven. When the temperature dropped down to about 450-F I pulled out the fixture and rings for further cooling. I immediately shut the door and went up stairs to grab a ham-n-cheese sandwich. After wraping it up in foil I pop'd it in the oven. No sense in wasting good heat, besides I was hungry! :big:






26) After the fixture cooled enough to handle with gloves, I removed the rings. They were sanded with #600 to width, and finished up with #1200 sand paper. They would not fit into the cylinder bores until I sanded the gaps out about .003". I pushed each one through its respective bore using the end of the piston, and double checked each gap and adjusted them till they measured .004 using a feeler gauge. After proper gaping they were installed on the pistons and pushed back and forth in the cylinder to make sure there was contact all the way around each ring. All the rings but one were making contact. After pushing it back and forth for quite a while the other ring became polish up (A) but the bad one made contact in just a few spots (rings on (B) show contact all around after being pushed through only twice) I pulled it off (A) and replaced it. The replacement ring showed contact all the way around after pushing it through a dozen times and checking. Problem solved! I took the offending ring (D) and spread it out till it finally bent and then broke in two! That'l teach ya ta mess with me! *knuppel2*






27) This close up (A) shows the top ring in full contact and smooth, and the lower replacement in full contact but still mostly discolored on the working surface. After a few strokes through the bore (B) is showing contact all the way around, as are the three other pistons/rings shown in their respective cylinders. (C) shows the rings left over due to zero breakage. Am I lucky or what!  






It turns out that making piston rings is not difficult at all. Since this was my first attempt, I made mistakes along the way, and I learned a lot. Next time they will turn out much better and with a little less fuss. Thm:

-MB


----------



## GailInNM

Good write up on the rings, MB.
actually a good photos and write ups on every thing. 
Thanks.
Gail in NM


----------



## nfk

You just give me an excellent lesson on rings making :bow:
In my last attempt, i broke about a dozen before finding 6 that fit the cylinder, and then i managed to broke 2 more  

Norberto


----------



## Metal Butcher

28) Making wrist pins is nothing special. I included them in today's post to show the grinding method I use. I started by cutting the pins about .012" to .015" oversize in length. With one chucked up and spinning in my cordless drill, I touch them against a running and well worn fine grit belt. I make light contact with the belt at 45 degrees and sweep to 90 degrees before pulling away. This is done on the unsupported part of the belt. After a few light sweeps the pin is measured, and the process continues on both ends till the target length is reached. With a little practice a pattern of removing .001" per pass aids in getting the length of all the pins plus or minus .001". During the process I keep checking the the ends using a 3/8" radius gauge to match the 3/4" piston and bore.






29) The pins are finished up with 1200 grit paper and touched against a buffing wheel.






30) Below is a blank cut from an aged piece of CRS I had laying around. Some refer to its condition as 'patina', to me its just plain old rust. Rof} 
Hopefully it will become a crank shaft with a bit of machining.






31) After center drilling the ends I scribed the dimensions shown in the plans and turned the rod journal.






32) I cut out the excess material with my band-saw before turning tn the crank journals. I added a slip fit spacer block to keep the crank from collapsing between the centers.






33) Here I'm machining the first side of the crank journal.






34) And their it is all finished up and looking real good. The truth is that its totally useless! While I was finishing up the second side of the journal the finished side started to show a wobble. Apparently the stress in the CRS reared its ugly head and ruined my day. This is not a first time this has happened, but its probably the last time I'll chance this many hours on an attempt using unstable CRS. 






35) On to plan 'B'. To relieve my stress and the stress in the metal I machined another piece of CRS on all four sides. This is the blank I will cut slices from to become the webs in a 'built-up' crank shaft. I will use Loctite and pins for the final assembly. 






36) The blank is ready for slicing.






37) And slicing and slicing.






38) A set up used to get the last slice.






39) And all done. I made an extra pair, and will probably need it with the way this build is going.






40) I milled them to thickness in pairs just to be sure.






41) A group shot of all the members in my 'Freshly Machined Web Club'. :big:






42) The rod holes were drilled and reamed in pairs. Plan 'B' is well on its way.






I'm thinking about making an assembly fixture to minimize the time spent on finishing up the crank assemblies, and to assure they turn out strait and usable. More on that in my next post.

-MB


----------



## zeeprogrammer

I saw you had popped back in a while back. Sorry I hadn't said anything.
I'm glad you're back and I'm looking forward to your builds.
I saw your snack collection.
Decent...but insufficient.
A few years ago the KitKats would have been heresy for me (being a Mars employee at the time)...and having said that...you need some Butterfingers.
(I didn't say that.)


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Hey!!! I've got a crankshaft just like yours.---Made the same way----Just as useless. We should start a "Useless Crankshaft Club".----On the other hand, I kinda don't like the sound of that too much-----Brian


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Superior documenting going on here, MB. I appreciate it all that much more since I'm working on my version of this engine, in between others. Nice going on the rings too. I've popped those pics into my OneNote database for future ref. 

If ya want, you can send me those extra rings and I'll send over some Kit Kats. :big:


----------



## Metal Butcher

Zee, I'm all out of candy! I didn't get even one Butterfinger. Help! :'(

Brian, No more clubs for me. I just became an honorary member of the 'Brain Dead Apprentice's Guild'. :wall:

Trout, You got a deal! Send over say...10-lbs (ten pounds) of Kit Kats. I suggest the use of a flat rate USPS box, you know, to save on shipping costs. Rof}

-MB


----------



## putputman

MB, sorry about the 1st crank. 

I think you had the right procedure, just the wrong material. If you would give 1144 stress proof steel a try and use the same process, you would get much better results. The only problem is that 1144 is only available in round stock. It machines so nice that I buy round stock and machine bar stock out of it for use on critical parts. 

It should be available at most steel supply shops and cost is slightly higher than CRS.


----------



## Metal Butcher

putputman  said:
			
		

> MB, sorry about the 1st crank.
> 
> I think you had the right procedure, just the wrong material. If you would give 1144 stress proof steel a try and use the same process, you would get much better results. The only problem is that 1144 is only available in round stock. It machines so nice that I buy round stock and machine bar stock out of it for use on critical parts.
> 
> It should be available at most steel supply shops and cost is slightly higher than CRS.



Thanks putputman, The idea of using the 1144 by sawing and machining a rectangle out of it is something I'll be trying sooner or later. I'm not going to even attempt another crank using 1018.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

44) I cut the rod pins for the crank shafts from a bar of drill rod and machined them to length. Below is one already assembled with #609 Loctite. The longer pin is loose and it was used to aid in lining up the webs.






45) With all 6 pairs of webs assembled and curing I cut a pair of rods for each set of webs that will become the crank shaft journals. Two different length rods were needed since the throw is not on the center of the crank shaft. 






46) I made a crank shaft assembly fixture by gluing two matching V-blocks to a hardened and ground plate. A 9/16 hardened and ground rod clamped down in the blocks lined them up so they could be set into a layer of super glue and accelerator. I came up with this idea to avoid sawing out of the shaft between the webs. Normally this becomes a mess using a hack saw and scars up the inside of the webs. It also requires accurate file work or milling to remove the remaining material needed to make the crank presentable. Since the clean up is time consuming and gives less than perfect results, I decided that making the fixture and using it carefully might be a better use of my time.






47) The first crank was assembled, and the Loctite is curing. I hope this works out, if not I'll be a little 'cranky' (pun). :big:






I'm debating if I should add pinning. Is it really necessary, or is it just used for peace of mind? The #609 Loctite is rated at 3000 psi on a 1/2" rod. I'll have to think about it a bit, and loose a little sleep before its over. :shrug:

-MB


----------



## kcmillin

I like your crank fixture MB. That would save a lot of filing time and such. I never would have thought of super glue to hold the v-blocks in place. I cant wait to see how it works out. 

Did you score the surfaces of the webs and pins before locktiting in place?

Kel


----------



## Metal Butcher

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> I like your crank fixture MB. That would save a lot of filing time and such. I never would have thought of super glue to hold the v-blocks in place. I cant wait to see how it works out.
> 
> Did you score the surfaces of the webs and pins before locktiting in place?
> 
> Kel



Thanks Kel, I hope it works since I'm running out of ideas.

I didn't score any surface...didn't know I was needed, and never read or heard of it being mentioned. If its needed I'm in trouble again! :wall:

-MB


----------



## kcmillin

I cant say if scoring it is necessary or not, I am by no means an expert, but IMHO scoring the surface with light sandpaper would give the Locktite a place to "Lock Tite" I guess I was just thinking like paint, the microscopic scored surface gives paint a good place to "Grip". Kinda like VelCro.

Kel


----------



## gbritnell

Hey Rick, 
The crank looks good. I know what the manufacturer says about the Loctite properties but I would pin it just to be on the safe side. That said, tomorrow we ought to know how true they are..  right!
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hey Rick,
> The crank looks good. I know what the manufacturer says about the Loctite properties but I would pin it just to be on the safe side. That said, tomorrow we ought to know how true they are..  right!
> George



Your right George they should and will be pinned. I keep he-hawin the subject hoping to rally the masses around to my way of thinking. This way when one of the cranks flies apart I can pass the blame on and say "Well you guys said it would work!" Rof}

-MB ;D


----------



## Metal Butcher

They say the morning after can be ugly, down from the high of the evening before.

I know that feeling today after checking my built up crank to find it wobbling.

Plan 'B' just came to an ugly end. Where do I go from here. :'(

-MB


----------



## cfellows

MB, I would probably go back to the one-piece crank and try straightening it with a small press. 

Also, if you decide to try another one-piece, you should make the following cuts before laying out the end markings and center drilling the pivot points on the ends (this crank has two throws, but the idea is the same):






Another idea would be to take down the two main journals a little bit at a time, alternating from one to the other and sneaking up on the final OD. That way you could turn out any warping that creeps in.

Any idea what went wrong it the built up crank?

Chuck


----------



## putputman

MB, if you decide to go back to a one piece crank, try making a fixture to turn the offset and the shafts. As long as you are making 5 cranks it will pay in time saved. 
Take a look at my web site and see what I mean by a fixture. I use one on the Red Wings, Tiny I.C. & the Associated engines.

http://www.putputman.com/?folderKey=K-THGOLDDEePCd56_mT9jQ

Again, if you can locate some 1144, it would be worth your time.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Thanks Chuck and putputman, all the ideas you present are good.

However, there has been a new development! Being too stubborn to accept that my fixture and its assembly were flawed I tested the fixture and retested it many times using the following technique. I coated the original hardened and ground 9/16" rod with Prussian blue. I rotated it in the blocks a full turn with light and even pressure. This left an even blue line on both sides of the two v-blocks, and an even amount scraped off the rod all the way around and the full width of the blocks. 

Next a piece of the original 5/16" d-rod used in the crank assembly was coated and showed the same positive result. I went back and forth with the rods and each time re-spreading the Prussian blue making the coat thinner and thinner as it deposited some on my finger each time. The only conclusion I can draw from these tests is that the fixture and it's alignment is not flawed, but dead on and strait.

Now I turned my attention to the wobbly crank. I tested it several times using a dial indicator on both ends of the journal and noticed that the reading was different each time and it would change based on how hard I tightened the collet up. I installed the 5/16" rod used to check the block's alinghment and the dial indicator showed the same varying .001 to .006" wobble as the crank shaft!

I checked the taper run-out on the collet-chuck's and its still within the .0002 (tenths) as it was in past tests. It looks like the collet is the culprit and not the crank shaft assembly after all!

The question is, how can I check the crank shaft run-out to be sure? scratch.gif

-MB


----------



## hobby

Being that i'm just a greenhorn, in this field (machining is a hobby to me), compared to the people who are well versed in this field, the way I would check it, drill and ream a hole through a rod that will accomadate and fully support one end of the crankshaft, as if you wer fitting a piston to a cylinder, then when this is fully supported, then turn the lathe on very slow, and check for any visible runout, on the far end of the crank.

Probably a Bad suggestion, I'm sure theres more precise ways of accomplishing it.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Rick
There is only 1 way to check a crankshaft and that's between centers. Prior to assembling your parts the crank shaft pieces should be center drilled concentrically with the shaft. By that I'm saying when you chuck up your stock and before you center drill it run and indicator on it. It should be within .0003 at least. Then when everything is assembled, loctited and pinned place the crank between centers, headstock and tailstock and put it to the indicator test again. Check the shafts near the webs as it should be darn close out by the centers. 

 There is an ongoing discussion on one of the other forums about the quality and concentricity of machine collets. I can't speak for yours but it seems that these things can be all over the map, if not the collets themselves then the holders that they fit into. If your's can't be trusted to chuck up your material within .0002-.0003 then I would use a 4 jaw chuck. 

Give me a call if you're still in a quandary.
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

hobby  said:
			
		

> Being that i'm just a greenhorn, in this field (machining is a hobby to me), compared to the people who are well versed in this field, the way I would check it, drill and ream a hole through a rod that will accomadate and fully support one end of the crankshaft, as if you wer fitting a piston to a cylinder, then when this is fully supported, then turn the lathe on very slow, and check for any visible runout, on the far end of the crank.
> 
> Probably a Bad suggestion, I'm sure theres more precise ways of accomplishing it.



Thanks hobby, I tried your suggestion and it worked! A Karma point for you! I chucked up a piece of brass rod and drilled it undersized and then reamed it with a 5/16" reamer. The dial indicator showed a .001 play between the rod and reamed hole. Rather than disturb the set up to split the fixture I slid the complete journal up to the webs into it and lightly held down the shaft close to the webs while rotating the crank. I rotated the webs with my finger. The indicator was on the very end of the out side journal and showed near zero run-out on both ends. The most I can detect is a tenth or two. Probably an anomaly of this method. Definitely not .001 to .006" run-out showing when chucked into the 5/16" collet.

If this crank shaft survives the pinning procedure It will become part of my build. ;D

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Rick
> If your's can't be trusted to chuck up your material within .0002-.0003 then I would use a 4 jaw chuck.
> 
> Give me a call if you're still in a quandary.
> George



Hi George. Apparently I need to check all of my collets and replace them if need be. The 5/16" is definatly going for a Monday ride in the big blue truck! :big:

At what distance from the collet does the run-out need to be within the .0002-.0003 that you specify?

-MB


----------



## cfellows

Before you throw out that collet, you might want to make sure you didn't have a particle of metal or something between the chuck and the collet. I've had that happen to me in the past.

Chuck


----------



## Metal Butcher

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Before you throw out that collet, you might want to make sure you didn't have a particle of metal or something between the chuck and the collet. I've had that happen to me in the past.
> 
> Chuck



Thanks Chuck, that good advise. I'll take a good look, and hang on to it till I get a replacement if its needed.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

48) In my last picture post the crank shaft assembly fixture I showed is working out well (plan B). I am allowing the Loctite a full 24 hour cure time. four crank shafts are assembled with two more to go.

While the Loctite is setting up I decided to start on the piston rods. The material I'm using is a hard brass plate I picked up on one of my regular visits to a local scrap yard. It machines and drills with a crackling sound unlike the #360 I'm used to working with, and it seems to machine more like a bronze.







49) First I cut off two strips that will become the rod end caps. 






50) Two larger pieces were easily cut into six strips using a hand feed method with the saw in its vertical position.
These low cost import 4x6 horizontal/vertical band saws are a great time saver compared to hand sawing with a hack saw.






51) The two narrow strips were also cut free hand, milled to dimension, and clearance drilled for their cap screws. I got on a roll with making these and forgot to snap pictures. :






52) One end of each rod blank was center drilled for mounting in the lathe for the last finishing steps, and the other ends were tapped for the screws that will attach the rod end cap.






53) The caps were also center drilled. This was done in one set-up when the two screw clearance holes were drilled. The picture was taken after a quick random test assembly of the caps. They all fitted up with out any problem.






54) Since I forgot to mill down the 3/8" blanks to the specified .312" earlier. I did the milling with the caps mounted, and removed an equal amount from the top and bottom. The sides were milled to the same width and length, making a reusable set up possible. To make the crank journal holes it was more fun to use a stop set up and shut of the machine only for a tool change after all six pieces were center drilled, then drilled, and finally reamed. After shifting the table the process was repeated for the piston pin hole. The 'hole' process went much faster than shutting down and un-chucking/chucking for three tool changes on each hole. Opening and closing the vise was a much better and faster way for me.






The next steps ahead will be much more difficult due to my lack of experience in making complex piston rods.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

55) The next steps in making the piston rods required the use of a simple fixture. After milling a scrap piece of aluminum flat, two holes were drilled and tapped for tight fitting hold down bolts. The table was shifted over and a second set of holes were drilled and tapped. On this set the hold down bolt hole for the piston rods large end (crankshaft end) was shifted over to produce the specified taper on both sides of the piston rod.






56) After I laid out the area that would be milled out, the end mill was lowered (away from the work) using a dial indicator mounted on the quill of the mill to the correct depth. This will give me the correct thickness when both sides are milled, centered on the blank. The first side of the first work piece was milled up to the guide lines, and the hand wheel was zeroed out. To mill up to the line on the other side of the milled out area, the hand wheel was turned in reverse and the number on the hand wheel written down with out disturbing it. Since I scribed all the sides on all the work pieces the counting of hand wheel turns was not necessary. All I had to do was watch the calibration on the hand wheel when approaching the guide lines.






57) My mill is out of tram with the column leaning left since the day I brought it home. With out the knowledge or ability to correct it I need to sand pieces more than I care to, that are milled along the Y-axis. Most of the milling I do is along the X-axis that doesn't present much of a problem. I started to sand one of the piece's and it doesn't look too bad. Sanding up into the corners is going to be the harder part.






58) To produce the taper on the rods I mounted the work piece in the second set of offset holes, (only one hole was offset). I made the taper with one cut staying short of my stop points and finished up with a light cut. I zeroed out both hand wheel calibration collars and wrote down the final number on the reverse cranked x-axis, the same procedure I used in picture #56. After the final cut I backed of both hand wheels .010" in preparation for the next side or piece, and raised the quill since the first rough cut would be started with a plunge cut. After the first piece was milled the process became routine and easy, creating identical pieces.






59) I made an extra piston rod. So far I haven't lost one to a silly mistake. If I had made only the 5 pieces needed... well you know how that would have ended up :big:! 






60) The next step was to turn a radius on the big end of the piston rods. I liked the basic square look of the rods but after turning one up I decide that all of them would get the same treatment. The plans also call for the small end to be "spherical", but my attempt at that detail was stopped short since I didn't care for the way it looked.






61) I went back to my fixture and gave the small ends of the rods a radius. I used thread-locker and snugged up the hold down bolt till I could barley rotate the work piece. The rod was set up in the same offset position were the tapered cut terminated. I only cut half the radius and flipped over the piece to make the second cut meet the first one on the end. I felt this was safer (cutting out of a corner) and would give a better result than going all the way around and finishing up into a corner were the piece usually grabs. It went real well and all the pieces were completed successfully and with confidence. To finish up the radius all the way around the small end, I raised the end mill to the same reading (depth) on my dial indicator that was used to mill out the web between the large and small end of the rods. All went well, and it was nice to get a handle on a repeatable way of milling the details on all six piston rods. 






62) The final machining step was to create a .010" boss on both sides of the big end so that the entire face would not be rubbing up against the crank shaft webs. I made a simple fixture using the same hold down bolt used for the milling steps. After the first side was cut to the proper width and depth I locked the carriage and zeroed out the cross slide calibrated hand wheel. I backed out the top slide with cutter far enough to clear the next side to be cut, flipped the piece over and cut till I reached the zero mark on the calibrated collar. It went so fast and smooth I wished for more pieces to cut.






63) Below is a group photo of the semi-finished piston rods. The final step will be sanding them till they reach a presentable appearance. As much as I dread hand sanding, finishing up these rods will be a pleasure. 






I'm so pleased with today's outcome that I'm giving myself the rest of the day off! :bow:

-MB


----------



## kjk

Absolutely beautiful!


----------



## Metal Butcher

I just couldn't leave it alone! :wall:

I started to file the con rods to remove the milling marks, and noticed the small end boss on one turned out a little choppy. Not a problem since the set up I used is still in place on the mill. All that's needed is to redo the small end radius by bringing the cutter in one or two thousands. With the work piece held with one hand the other turned the hand wheel to bring the cutter in. The cutter grabbed in the corner and pulled the rod from my fingers and into the cutter creating a gouge about .030" deep! The connecting rod must have been out of position when I brought the cutter in. Next time I will use a stop rod to avoid the positioning problem that I believe caused this. 

I hate to throw one away since I spent a good amount of time making them. So... I made up a batch of JBW and patched the gouge. When it hardens I'll try to re-cut the radius again. Since It will need painting I won't use it on this build. I'm building five engines, and that is the sixth rod.

I removed the last crank shaft from my assembly fixture this morning and checked it out. It turned out nice and strait just like the rest of them. By using the fixture its almost impossible to get the line up wrong and end up with a bad crank.

Well, break is over so back down to the shop I go. I'll finish up the day by sanding the file marks off the con rods.

-MB


----------



## hobby

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> By using the fixture its almost impossible to get the line up wrong and end up with a bad crank.
> -MB




Isn't it a good feeling, when a homemade fixture works good consistently, its like a project all of its own.
Fixture design and building is all part of the project as a whole.

It would be nice to see all the fixtures that were made with a finished project, to really be able to convey the amount of intricate work is done on the project.

You have a lot of clever fixture designs in all your builds.

Keep up the excellent work...


----------



## Metal Butcher

Thanks hobby. I find myself building more and more fixtures. Most of them are simple and take very little time to make, but they can save a lot more time in use, and especially when making duplicate parts. In the past I spent far to much time trying to figure out how to hold a work piece. Now I spend less time making and mounting a work piece to a simple fixtures made of a scrap piece. Fixtures also help to eliminate scraped parts caused by work piece shift when using a weak set-up. A good example is what happened to me today (my reply, #49). If I had used a stop-rod or stop-pin my piston rod would not have shifted due to a hand held eye-balled positioning. I made a mistake.

Hobby machining with out any formal training is an ongoing learning process based on mistakes. 
Someday my mistakes will get sold for scrap, and bring in a tidy sum $$$! Rof}

-MB


----------



## hobby

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Someday my mistakes will get sold for scrap, and bring in a tidy sum $$$! Rof}
> 
> -MB



Just think if we could take all of our scrap (mistakes workpieces), and build a model utilizing all those, it would make for some very interesting projects. Rof}


----------



## Deanofid

You're really putting on a good show, Rick. I finally got caught up with this thread, and what you've
got done is looking great! I liked that jig you made for heating your rings. Different than the way I
do it, but looks a lot handier (given a furnace). I wonder if a guy would get a similar result using charcoal
and putting the ring setup in a pipe packed with sand? Could be an alternative for guys lacking the furnace.

Good of you to show the warty side of making solid crankshafts. Made a few myself , and an alternative to 
1144sp is HRS, which doesn't have the built up stresses of CRS. Both 1144 and HRS have worked well
for me, in that regard.

Thanks for all the pics, and your usual well written narrative!

Dean


----------



## arnoldb

MB - you really are cracking on ! Great job :bow: and very informative.

Regards, Arnold


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> I wonder if a guy would get a similar result using charcoal
> and putting the ring setup in a pipe packed with sand? Could be an alternative for guys lacking the furnace.
> 
> Good of you to show the warty side of making solid crankshafts. Made a few myself , and an alternative to
> 1144sp is HRS, which doesn't have the built up stresses of CRS. Both 1144 and HRS have worked well
> for me, in that regard.
> 
> Thanks for all the pics, and your usual well written narrative!
> 
> Dean



Hi Dean. The sand idea could work. With a hole in the side of the pipe for a pyrometer to monitor the temperature, and by shifting the pipe or charcoal around you could make temperature adjustments. Tricky... but do-able.

http://www.paragonweb.com/DT2-7_Digital_Hand-Held_Pyrometer_Degrees_F.cfm


I didn't have any hot rolled to try out, and have never tried to machine any. I heard its nasty stuff to machine. Maybe that's why cold rolled (CRS) is specified on most plans. Since the CRS seems to have a lot of built-in stress I'm surprised that any cranks have been successfully made by others. I haven't had that kind luck with the stuff, so I won't attempt using it on another crank. Its just too risky given the amount of time it takes me to machine one up.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

64) The crank shafts are finished except for the pinning and a final sanding after the pins are driven in. I need to order the correct size dowel pins. I'll do that at a latter date when I have enough items to place a minimum order from an online supplier. The six cranks laying on the bench are built up from individual pieces, and the seventh one shown in the fixture was machined from solid. It warped during the process, and although it looks good, its totally useless. I tried to straiten it without any luck.






65) To finish up the piston rods the holes were de-burred and checked with the corresponding reamers. After a little sand papering their finished. The last one at the top of the picture is the one that got pulled into the cutter. I filled the area with JB Weld and re-machined the entire profile. I went over the filler with some brass colored paint that doesn't really help much. Since I only need five good rods I keep it for a future project that might work with a painted rod. 






66) After a test fitting the rods and cranks were wraped up and stored away. It will be quite a while till I see them again at assembly time.






After sanding all day yesterday, I woke up today with a really sore right thumb and forefinger. So sore, that I have to flick a lighter with my left hand to light up a cigar! :big:

Mommy, can you kiss my boo-boo. Rof}

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

MetalButcher---Excellent work. I know what you mean about 'sanding finger syndrome'.----Hurts like heck!!!!----Brian


----------



## doc1955

Those rod and crank assemblies are beautiful to say the least very nice!
 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## metalmad

work of art 
i love it


----------



## ozzie46

Looking good MB, looking good. :bow: :bow:

 Ron


----------



## Deanofid

They're just beautiful, Rick. Very nice work!

Just one more note about HRS; When you buy it, it doesn't have to be A36, which is regular old
structural steel, and what most people think of when you say "HRS". It can still be 1018, just hot
rolled. I would give 1144 a try for your next one, though. It's perfect for things like cranks.

I have a number of prints where the crank is called out as HRS, for the reason that plagued your 
first one. It's a lot of work just to have it go pretzel on you.

Keep it up. Things are looking really good! Great thread.


----------



## cfellows

Beautiful work, MB. I'm inspired to try a crankshaft using your method. I always did prefer using a finished rod for the journals.

Chuck


----------



## Metal Butcher

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Beautiful work, MB. I'm inspired to try a crankshaft using your method. I always did prefer using a finished rod for the journals.
> 
> Chuck



Hi Chuck, thanks. I like using a finished rod. It makes for a nice controlled fit into the webs, and also the piston rod and crank shaft bearings. I haven't given up altogether on the idea of machining single piece crank shafts . I just think that cold rolled is not a material I'll ever use again. I used this idea to simplify the assembly, make the crank shafts accurate, and to keep the project moving forward. 

Since I used a duplicate pair of inexpensive set of blocks, I'll leave the fixture alone for now. I think I could knock them apart with a hammered brass bar, and clean up the glue with a remover if I need them. If you ever try this set up, I sprayed accelerator on the plate, and spread the glue on the bottom of the blocks before setting them down gently on the ground steel plate. Prior to gluing, the ground rod was clamped tight in the blocks, on a granite inspection plate.

-MB


----------



## TuxMan

MB

Thanks for letting us follow along on your great build. I am learning a lot. Your descriptions are very clear.

Based on your crankshaft build I am planning to use the same method on my current beam engine build.

I will continue to follow along.

Eric


----------



## Troutsqueezer

You must have a generous supply of brass there MB. Can I have some? Interesting how your approach to machining the con rod is so different from mine yet we both got there, huh? Have you figured out what you are going to do for the oil cup(s)?

-Trout


----------



## Metal Butcher

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> You must have a generous supply of brass there MB. Can I have some? Interesting how your approach to machining the con rod is so different from mine yet we both got there, huh? Have you figured out what you are going to do for the oil cup(s)?
> 
> -Trout



Good timing Mr.Trout! I just came up to have a smoke and checked in on the forum. "Can I have some?" Sure, stop by my shop latter today and I'll let you pick out all that you need for your Upsur build! You have to pick up brass in person you know, no illegal shipping especially out of state. The stuff causes cancer in out of state lab rats! Weak immune systems from laying around under the sun, I guess. The locals here are work hardened, and tougher than tool steel! Rof}

The way you made your con-rod using a rotary table, is probably the correct/conventional/standard method. The set up I used is the third method I have to work around the use of a ro-tab. See... lazy can be a good thing! 

No idea's on the oil cups yet. 

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

67) Today's post will show how I made the cam and cam gear carrier, and also the crank gear hub. It's a quick and simple method that has worked well for me in the past. A 3/4" Steel bar was machined down to the specified major diameter of the cam on the lathe. I profiled the blank for the cam using a spin fixture mounted on my mill. The end mill was lowered .001" at a time till it touched the work piece, and then shifted off to the end and lowered to the specified minor diameter of the cam. After the cutter was taversed back and forth to make the first cut the spin fixture was reset 10 degrees to take another cut. It took 25 cuts (0 to 24, inclusive) to match the 120 degree shown on the plans as a 1/4" remaining on the major diameter. To reduce the time needed to blend the flats created by the incremental milling, I moved the pin on the spin fixture from the #1 position up to #5. This gave me 23 cuts in-between the previous ones, cutting the increments (flats) in half. In the picture below you can see the smaller steps, created by what I call double-cutting, that will require much less blending time compared to what I've done in the past.







68) I transferred the 3/4" collet and stock back to the lathe to blended the cuts by hand with a smoothing file. Clamping the stock in a vise would due, its just easier on my 'back problem' to use the lathe due to the collet chucks height.






69) I went over the profiled blank very lightly and length-wise with a fine stone to see how well the filing went. The surface looked good with only a few light milling marks , so I finished up by polishing the surface shoe-shin style, using a strip of cloth backed abrasive (crocus cloth).






70) The next step was to carefully drill and ream a .250" hole for the cam's pivot pin. I checked the bore with the actual pivot pin material in insure a close running fit before going on to the next steps. In the event of an unacceptable bore to pivot pin fit (It can happen) the piece would need to be scraped. In the event of needing to starting over It would have saved time to do the profile milling after the bore was finished, but doing it in this final set-up assured that the gear would run concentric (important) with the bore. After the press fit step .125" wide by .375" in diameter was added for mounting the gear, the cam was parted of 5/16" wide.






71) The method Hamilton shows ("easy cam"), is to make a fixture and turn the cams profile on the lathe. I didn't understand this method, so I made them using my self taught method. Below is a picture of the semi-finished cams. Works for me, give it a try.






72) I didn't like the idea of the entire cam profile rubbing up against the engines frame, so I bolted the cam to a simple machined-in-place fixture and machined a .010" step for the cam to ride on.






73) I purchased the gears for this project as recommended in the plans, from PIC Design, a division of RBC Bearings. Both of the gears are stainless steel, .125" wide with a .375" bore, models #J1-30 and J1-60, 30 and 60 tooth.The gears were made to order with a lead time of three weeks. These are extremely well made, and referred to as "instrument quality" by Hamilton. I'm very impressed with the quality, and will eventually get over their price. :-






74) I machined up a bushing for the smaller crank shaft mounted gear, with the same mounting step as the larger cam gear. In the picture I'm parting it off at the same 5/16" width.






75) A .020" step was machined on the gears bushing to just below the bottom of the gears teeth. I did this as a precaution to prevent damaging the teeth on the cam gear in case one of the gears track off center, and also to eliminate the corner that might trap dirty oil or dust.






76) Nothing new here. I just wanted to show any beginners watching the set up I used to drill and tap the duplicate small gear hubs for a set screw. The first work piece was set up on a parallel, and against a vise stop. An edge finder was used to locate the center from both directions. Then simply, center drill, drill, tap, remove, and replace work piece, and repeat. I use the stationary chuck (just barely open), to guide the tap driven by two fingers on a small 'taping disc'. This eliminates tap breakage, and the need to set up each one individually. 






77) The gears are all finished with no place to go. This was really a simple project that took far to long. Reason being I wanted the gears to fit and mesh properly. I think I did well and do not expect any problems durring assembly.






78) A last step before the photo shoot was Parkerizing the gear hubs and cam. They were made from steel that's susceptible to rusting. The parts were processed for only 5 minutes in the hot solution and turned out well.






Happy Thanksgiving every one! 

-MB


----------



## kustomkb

Very nice work you are doing MB. Your parts are looking great!

Keep up the good work.


----------



## rudydubya

:bow: I'm really enjoying the ride, MB.

Regards,
Rudy


----------



## Deanofid

Nice work on those cams! Do you mind telling how much the gears ran you?

Happy Thanksgiving to you and Honey, Rick.

Dean


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Nice work on those cams! Do you mind telling how much the gears ran you?
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving to you and Honey, Rick.
> 
> Dean



Hi Dean. Thanks, and the same to you. The 'bird' is making me nod off in front of the computer. 

You need to either sit down, or cover your mouth so I don't see you laughing! :big:

$106 + $6 shipping. About $22 a set.

I'm trying to forget. :'(

-MB


----------



## bronson

Hi this is a very interesting build. I have a few questions first want is parkinzing, second i noticed that you use round tools for your lathe is there a reason for this or just that is what you like, are they easier to grind?


----------



## Metal Butcher

bronson  said:
			
		

> Hi this is a very interesting build. I have a few questions first want is parkinzing, second i noticed that you use round tools for your lathe is there a reason for this or just that is what you like, are they easier to grind?



Hi bronson, thanks, I'm glad your taking interest in my build. If its not too difficult or too easy, perhaps you'll consider building one yourself.

I bought over 100 hss and carbide round tool bits in various diameters and ground shapes, ranging from 1/8" to 5/16". The reason I use them is that for $5 I couldn't pass them up. They are very easy to re-sharpen due to their sizes and shapes.

Parkerizing is a chemical treatment (manganese phosphate) that converts the surface of the steel giving it a satin gray or black color. It used mainly as a good rust preventative treatment that works well on tool, firearms, and other machined parts. I like its non-glare looks and the way it holds oil to protect parts from rusting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerizing

-MB


----------



## cfellows

Actually, MB, $22 a set isn't outrageous. It's a little on the high side, but sounds like you got just what you needed, so that price isn't so bad.

Chuck


----------



## Metal Butcher

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Actually, MB, $22 a set isn't outrageous. It's a little on the high side, but sounds like you got just what you needed, so that price isn't so bad.
> 
> Chuck



Yea your right Chuck, The price is in line with all the other sources. They are exactly what I needed, and also top quality. I need to stop whining and get over their cost.

What we need is a Little ol' Gear Maker with nothing better to do, to supply us with low cost gears for our projects, yea right...dream on! :

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

79) I made the 'cam gear sleeve's from steel. I made only 4 of them, since at least one engine will be built as a hit-n-miss version, and that requires a combination bushing with a 'pivot' for the 'lever' that engages with the governor 'spool'.






80) The 'upper push rod guide's' were simple rectangles cut from brass sheet and drilled. I stacked, pinned, and bolted them together to profile their ends with one set up using the method shown below. They were too short for hand held profiling in the mill, so I clamped on to them with a 1-1/2" machinists clamp. this was a better set up, that kept my fingers out of harms way.






81) A picture at a differant angle of the profile milling set up I used.






82) After a little file and sand paper work their finished. I added a small pressed in bushing on the profiled end to add more surface for the push rod to ride on. I accidentally deleted the picture showing the installed bushings.






83) Now here's a picture worth a thousand words, (curse words that is!). I needed stock 3/16" thick for the 'lower push rod guide's. Simple enough, I'll just mill down some 1/4" x 1/2" stock on hand. As soon as I released the vise's grip a chill went up my back. The brass stock sprung do to built in stress created when the stock was rolled to thickness at the mill that made it. After a lot of hammering and plenty of choice words I straitened the piece enough to where it could be salvaged and used.






84) After a little break to calm my rattled nerves, I went back down to the shop. I milled the pieces to size, drilled the appropriate holes, and finished up with a file and sand paper. They turned out as well as could be expected under normal circumstances.






Its a good thing that my project wasn't being documented with a real time 'shop cam', or I would have been booted off the forum today for sure! Rof}

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

85) For today's post I made the cylinder heads that will be used on two horizontal, and one vertical engine. The heads for one horizontal, and one vertical F-Head engine are further down in the plan set and will be made at a later date.

To simplify The process I made a simple fixture. This way the heads could be bolted on, and changed out for each individual machining step with out breaking a set up. 






86) I band saw cut 1-1/2" in diameter aluminum bar stock blanks that will be be faced to their final width.







87) Ignore this picture, it should have been deleted. I drilled the mounting holes in one blank and decided that they should be trued up on the lathe first.







88) The picture below is back on track. This live action picture shows the blank being faced down to dimension. Notice the blurred jaws on the chuck. I was cranking the top slide hand wheel with one hand, and snapping pictures with the other. I could get away with this only because this was not the final facing cut.







89) I drilled the two mounting stud holes on all the cylinder heads using this simple set up. After drilling one head with two table moves I changed out the work piece and did another. After getting the set up right and drilling one the heads, the rest were fast and fun.







90) I only need three heads for the project, but I decided it would be a good idea to make an extra one 'just in case'. 







91) After shifting the table to the proper co-ordinate's I drilled and reamed the first of many holes.







92) In this shot all the face holes finished. On this head I drilled, faced, and tapped for the spark plug. The others will have the spark plug hole on the side of the heads outer diameter. 







93) Here the head and fixture were fliped up side down to add the intake hole. The exaust port and spark plug holes were added using an angle block. 







94) All finished up and ready to go. I wish I could take the credit for those beautiful plugs. They are off the shelf Rimefire VR2L's, and they are real nice plugs. I bought them just to take the spark plug issue out of the picture when I try to get my engines to run. After studying a lot of designs and studying the ones I bought, making spark plugs dosn't seem to pose any difficulty I can't overcome. Its was just a minor fear of the unknown that made me decide to make my first attempts after I get a running engine, that I can try them out on.






That's all for today, I hope you enjoyed the post.

-MB


----------



## 1hand

Looking good MB! I really like the fixtures you use and make. The way you use vblocks, and using your screwless vice in the bandsaw, are great ideas I've would of never thought of.

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## Troutsqueezer

MB...slow down...you're making me look bad. *beer* :big:


----------



## Metal Butcher

1hand  said:
			
		

> Looking good MB! I really like the fixtures you use and make. The way you use vblocks, and using your screwless vice in the bandsaw, are great ideas I've would of never thought of.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt



Thanks Matt. You know the old saying "Necessity - the mother of invention."

When I get in a jam ???, I panic and start start by digging through drawers and boxes of "who knows what this was for" stuff picked up at garage and estate sales. Seeing a tool like the screw-less vise you mentioned, or a fixture usually triggers my imagination, and a new (to me) set up is born.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> MB...slow down...you're making me look bad. *beer* :big:



Yea your right, I need to slow down. I took a day off yesterday, and half a day off today!

 1/2 day progress report and picture post to follow. :big:

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

95) I took the day off yesterday at Trout's request. ;D
 With today being my 'running around and errands day', I was only able to get a little done. For today's post I made the 'rocker arm'. I drilled and reamed the end of a piece of hard brass that just happened to be the correct size. Luck was on my side today.







96) After some calculation I determined the locations for two cuts using a 1/2" ball end mill. They were the first step in a simple profile somewhat similar to whats shown on the plans.






97) Different angle of the set-up above.






98) I decided to round over the corners a little bit, rather than attempt a full radius. the plans show a .250 radius that looks impossible based on the part dimensions as drawn. The center-line of the end hole is .109" from the end. Maybe I missed something on the plan. ???






99) I set up the work piece on end in the vise, and installed an R-8 slitting saw arbor in the mill. To accurately slice off the pieces the quill was lowered the same distance for each slice, using a quill mounted dial indicator.






100) To assure a uniform thickness on the first piece, a .010 cut was taken before zeroing out the dial indicator and lowering the quill for the cut . I used a 1/16" saw, and reset the indicator for each piece. The picture below shows the first slice after it came off.






101) After all that could be sliced came off, I sand papered off the sharp edges and checked each hole with the appropriate reamer. After a thorough scrubbing in hot soapy water the pieces were stored away until their needed on assembly day.






That's it for today. I hope you enjoyed my 'short' progress post. 

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Lovely work. I wish you great success when you get to the part I'm at!!!


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Lovely work. I wish you great success when you get to the part I'm at!!!



Thanks Brian, I might need a lot of help when my turn comes! :

Its scary just to think about it. 

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

102) After three attempts and eight hours, I was finally successful in making the 'lever' for my project. I found a nice piece of rolled bronze and decided it would be a good material for this part. I miss-read the plan and milled the first piece way undersized. My second attempt using another piece of the same bronze went much better. In the picture below, I'm fly cutting it down to the proper thickness.






103) In this picture the material is being profiled with an end mill. It seemed the material was really tough to machine, even though I was using a new cutter.






104) The workpiece was profiled on the bottom and the top. I left some material untouched on the end for clamping in the vise, when the piece will be stood up on its end.






105) With the piece standing on end I made the first cut with a HSS slitting saw. Things went from bad to worse as the saw and workpiece started to screech and over heat. You can see the heat discoloration on both pieces. I guess this is why flood coolant systems exist. Looks like I just failed at attempt #2! scratch.gif






106) Attempt #3! What the heck, with half a day left there is plenty of time to cut up more scrap, and turn it into smaller pieces of scrap. Rof}

This time I'm using my noodle, and picked a piece of 'machinable' brass.






107) Profiling the underside.






108) Profiling the top side.






109) The work piece standing on end and being drilled for a pivot pin.






110) I used the identical (new) saw blade and the brass is cutting like it should. I didn't need to run for cover in fear of flying shrapnel, like I did when attempting to cut the bronze! I was able to approach fearlessly, and shoot this closeup for your viewing pleasure. 8)






111) After a little file and sand paper work the 'lever' is done. Actually I only needed one! oh:






When fear strikes, run for cover! 

-MB


----------



## 1hand

They turned out very nice! Thm:
I didn't reallize that there was that much difference machining bronze verses brass!

Hopefully machining my bronze axle bearings goes ok scratch.gif
I do have a Kool Mist system that should help.

Matt


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Thats gotta be the thing I was calling a "Kerzel Lever"-----Wait untill you go to fit them----


----------



## Metal Butcher

1hand  said:
			
		

> They turned out very nice! Thm:
> I didn't reallize that there was that much difference machining bronze verses brass!
> 
> Hopefully machining my bronze axle bearings goes ok scratch.gif
> I do have a Kool Mist system that should help.
> 
> Matt



Matt. Normally there really isn't much difference. I machined some 660 bearing bronze in the past without any problem. This stuff is a flat bar with a silver colored 'wave like' surface. The surface is also irregular and looks like it was cold rolled. Nasty stuff.

Maybe some one with more experience, will comment on the use of a coolant. 

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Metal Butcher---I've made four flywheels out of bronze.---Kinda like 'Death by powder blasting".


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Metal Butcher---I've made four flywheels out of bronze.---Kinda like 'Death by powder blasting".



I know what you mean. When I machine 'bearing bronze' on the lathe, the shower of the tiny hot chips feels like thousands of little needles on my skin. The stuff machines OK with a sharp (small radius) single point cutter. However, cutting off on the band saw takes much longer than any other material, including stainless and other steels. Due to the length of the band saw blades the heat dissipates and doesn't become a real problem. Using a small and thin 'slitting saw' is another story as you can see in my last progress report. Its "nasty stuff" that I won't use again, unless its called for due to its wear resistance.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

112) For today's post I made the 'arms' for the optional hit-n-miss governor. Since its a very simple part to make the post will be a short one. I machined some scrap brass down to the outside dimensions using my fly cutter mounted in the mill/drill.






113) I milled out a slot with a 1/2" end mill to the proper depth and shifted the table twice to open up the slot to the proper width. I didn't mill all the way to the end of the bar. The remaining material will be needed for the final steps that require the piece to be stood up on its end.






114) The next step was milling down one side of the channel to the dimension shown on the plans.






115) I switched the m/d over for drilling, stood the work piece on its end, squared it up, and drilled the two holes shown on the plans. In the picture below I took a light truing cut and zeroed out my DRO (quill mounted dial indicator read out).






116) This is the fun part, slicing off pieces .0945 thick. Chop, chop, in the Butcher shop! :big:






117) When I ran out of material to chop, the next step was to file both sides of each piece to remove the saw marks. I brought the thickness down to .0935", plus/minus .0001". Going back and forth between filing and manipulating the micrometer became tedious. So, I came up with a simple way to make this operation easier and more productive. I padded the micrometer and clamped it in my old filing vise. It was difficult to read at the zero line, so I hiked it up on a block of wood. Simply brilliant! I named my invention "The Micrometer Stand". Thm:






118) The picture below shows the unfinished pieces, sorry I deleted the wrong picture..again. Use your imagination to picture them with the sharp edges all gone, and sanded smoother on fine paper.






Removing the sharp edges got old very fast. So, I tried a new idea by using a 3/4" disc shaped wire brush in my rotary tool. It worked like a charm and went well. I looked through my large 3 diopter bench light to see what I was doing, and to shield me from the flying brass slivers.

Taught myself two new tricks today! woohoo1

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

119) Today I made some small parts. I got a good start on the 'push rod clevis, 'rocker post', and 'lever pivot'. making these small and simple parts can add up to quite a few hours.I started to become fatigued and decided its best to call it a day and post the results. In the picture below some square 1/4" brass stock is getting a 1/8" slot. This was the first machining step to produce the optional 'push rod clevis'.






120) The second step was to cut off at the proper length. In the past I would break down the saw set-up to mill the end to length, after bands sawing the piece off. My recent purchase of a square collet simplifies the process and speeds up making multiple pieces.






121) After parting off the 'clevis' it was reversed in the collet to produce the round detail. I got the pictures mixed up a little and deleted the one showing the spigot being turned. I think I spent too many hours going back and forth between two machines, and the fatigue is starting to show.






122) I drilled and tapped the end of the 'clevis' 3-48. I added this to allow for adjustment to the push rod length. There is no provision for adjustment in the plans, that I can find. The push rod is 3/32" in diameter, a little thin for a 3-48 thread, but it should work.






123) The 'clevis' is all but finished. I need to drill the 3/32" pivot hole as a last step, and finish up with the cosmetic's.






124) One half of the 'rocker post' is milled away for mounting the rocker. In the plan a 2-56" screw is used as a pivot. I will drill the post for a 3/32" steel pin, lock it in place with Loctite, and retain the 'rocker with a 3/32" E-clip. The thought of the 'rocker' pivoting on the screw's threads as shown in the plan, bothered me a bit. A partially threaded screw could also be made, it would be a good project for those that enjoy making screws. The 2-56 screws are used in other places, meaning that I would need at least 25 screws to complete the project. I like making pins.






125) With the saw cut finished, the 'rocker post' was transferred to the lathe for cut-off.






126) The rocker post was turned down to the diameter specified in the plan. I center drilled the ends for live center support. It turned out that there was no need for the tail stock support. 






127) All that's left to finish up the 'rocker post' is to drill and ream the 3/32" pivot pin holes, and the usual clean up. The arrow is pointing to a simple fixture idea that came to mind. The bushing will fit over the spigot ends of the 'clevis' and the 'rocker post' to aid in setting them up in the m/d vise, assuring they will be perpendicular to the quill for drilling and reaming operations.






128) In the container on the lower right is the start of the 'pivots' for the 'levers'. I'll pick up were I left off tomorrow, finish up the parts I started today, and maybe take the rest of the day off by cleaning up the shop and ordering some of the supplies that are piling up on my list.






My one day projection for these parts didn't quite work out. Oh well... its not the first time, and it won't be the last.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

MB---Great work you are doing there!!! I've "hit the wall" for now with my project, so I'll take enjoyment from watching yours.----Brian


----------



## Deanofid

Coming along really well, Rick. A guy has to pretty much be in 'production' mode to knock off 
all these parts for four engines.  They all look good, too!

Dean


----------



## oshb5

Hello

All i can say MB is you have the paitence of a saint and the hands of a sculpture and the brains to perfectionist. Super Super and just Super. I cannot wait for the next instalment.. :bow:

All the best Andy

P.S. love the use of the sharpie


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Coming along really well, Rick. A guy has to pretty much be in 'production' mode to knock off
> all these parts for four engines. They all look good, too!
> 
> Dean



Thanks Dean. Setting up for the first piece is the harder part, the rest are just time consuming repletion. Once I get a good pace going I don't want to stop. The "production mode" is the fun part that I enjoy the most. I push for the highest speed, with accuracy to avoid making scrap. I usually push too hard and the latter (scrap) starts to pile up! :rant:

I haven't seen you posting on a build thread lately, are you working on any project at the moment?

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

oshb5  said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> All i can say MB is you have the paitence of a saint and the hands of a sculpture and the brains to perfectionist. Super Super and just Super. I cannot wait for the next instalment.. :bow:
> 
> All the best Andy
> 
> P.S. love the use of the sharpie



Hi Andy, thank you for the wonderful compliment. 

I started a bad habit of using a Sharpie to write on my workpieces , cutting tools, vises, and anything that's handy. I even wrote a stop dimension on the back of my hand recently. That was a bad idea! It didn't want to wash off for over a week! It wipes off of metal very easily using just about any solvent or cutting fluid.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

129) I finished up the parts I started yesterday. I got an early start this morning hoping to finish up in the afternoon and take the rest of the day off from machining to do some cleaning up and relaxing. Didn't work out that way, the finish up took much longer than anticipated. The holes required 23 set-ups, with 69 tool changes! The file work, de-burring, and sanding took even longer. The good news is that I taught my self a new trick. I used a single edge razor blade to scrap off the sharp inside edges.

Below are the optional push rod clevis's. I added a tapped 3-48 thread to their holes so that the push rods could be adjustable, a feature I feel should benefit the initial set up.






130) I cut a 3/32" pin for a test fitting of the lever pivot, and they fit like a well made glove. I havn't decided if the pins will be held in place with a little Loctite, or if I'll get fancy and groove them for E-clips.

I forgot about the drilled and tapped holes on the 8 clevis's, and the 8 lever pivot's. That's another 48 tool changes!






131) I tried the pivot pin on the rocker arm and post and they checked out good too, with enough clearance to tilt down 45* in either direction. I was concerned if they would have enough clearance, since I changed their shape slightly to suit my idea of how they could be shaped.






With these parts finished up, I can clean the shop tomorrow, and take care of a few other details that need my attention. Better late than never.


That's all for today folks. Thm:
-MB


----------



## narrowgauger

MB,

very informative & enjoyable thread. Great information, particularly the use of fixtures. I certainly now look forward to seeing these engine operational.

Have a question for you; in picture 81 you are using a spiral cutter, which seems like a jewellers bir with a spiral cutting face. Could you please tell me what the proper name for this cutter is and your supplier source.

My normal tooling supplier has a good range of birs, but does not have the spiral version, which clearly would be desirable for mill rounding to avoid shatter or climbing (as is the case with conventional 4 face cutters) and certainly far better compared to using abrasive drums.

thank you for the input in advance

Bernard 

The Model Works Australia


----------



## Metal Butcher

narrowgauger  said:
			
		

> MB,
> 
> very informative & enjoyable thread. Great information, particularly the use of fixtures. I certainly now look forward to seeing these engine operational.
> 
> Have a question for you; in picture 81 you are using a spiral cutter, which seems like a jewellers bir with a spiral cutting face. Could you please tell me what the proper name for this cutter is and your supplier source.
> 
> thank you for the input in advance
> 
> Bernard
> 
> The Model Works Australia



Thanks for the compliment Bernard. The cutter you refer to is a 'single cut' h.s.s. burr. The burr's are commonly available in single cut, and double cut. They come in different sizes and shapes. Below is a link to just one of many suppliers. If you click on one of the boxes above the pictures it will show the available sizes in that particular style. They should be available from most all machine shop suppliers.

http://toolinghouse.com/hssburrs.aspx

Here's the one I have.
http://www.silver-seal.com/product/...e&utm_medium=CPC&utm_content=&utm_campaign=78

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

132) As I mentioned in a previous post, I didn't care for the idea of the rocker, clevis, lever, and governor arm pivoting on the threads of 2-56 screws. So I went ahead with my idea of using 3/32" steel pivot pins retained with E-clips.

Using a 3/32" collet on the lathe and measuring with a rule, I cut off the drill rod slightly longer than the finished length. The pins were then sized to length using a cordless drill and belt sander, while checking with a dial caliper to get them all within a close tolerance. This was important since the groove locations will be based on zeroing out the groove cutter from the ends of the pivot pin.







133) In the picture below a batch of pins is already sanded to length. I needed three different length pins for the various pivot points on the engine. The next step is cutting the groves for the E-clips.






134) I used a paper shim to locate the edge of the pin with the edge of the grooving tool. This not only made the locating easier, it also gave me a little clearance so that the clips would slip in without any side interference. I cut the pins 1/8" longer than the width of the parts they went through, this gave me 1/16" of the pins protruding on each side. 






135) After zeroing out my dial indicator the carriage was shifted .062" to cut the grooves .010 deep. The pins were then reversed in the collet to cut the grooves on the opposite ends. 






136) After the grooves were cut the precision pins no-longer fit into their reamed holes. I chucked each pin into my cordless drill and used a round jewelers file to remove the burr, and finished up with fine sand paper until each pin would fit into the reamed holes with out any binding.






137) I used a solid block of brass with a reamed hole as a gauge to check the pins. If I felt the slightest resistance the pin was backed out for a little more fine sanding. The 'guage' was also milled to the thickness of the governor 'carrier', to verify the proper location of the clips on the 'arm' pivot pins.






138) The pins for the 'rocker arm' and 'rocker post' were cut 1/16' longer than their combined width. The pins were installed in the 'rocker posts' with #609 Loctite. I couldn't use the 'rocker' to locate the pins (for obvious reasons), so I made a Delrin bushing equall to the width of the 'rocker' plus .001", to use as a fixture to locate the pins with a clip installed. Loctite doesn't stick well to Delrin, making the bushing removable once the pin 'fixtures' to the 'rocker post'.






139) Lever 'pivot's finished.






140) The optional 'clevis's pivot pins.






141) Pivot pins for governor 'carrier'.






142) In all I made about 40 pins. A few of them ended up ground under size so they were discarded', some ended up on the floor, and the rest are 'just in case'.






During the process of making these simple pins, I learned a lesson. Its much easier to spend 5 minutes making an extra part, than it is to spend ten minutes kneeling on a swarf covered floor, looking for the one that got away, and never finding it! :noidea:

-MB


----------



## gbritnell

Rick,
Do you realize you're almost building an 8 cylinder engine?
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Rick,
> Do you realize you're almost building an 8 cylinder engine?
> George



Hi George,
No, I never looked at it that way. Although given the amount of time, material, and money I'm spending, It could very well have been a V-8 build. The only thing lacking is an adequate amount of ability, and the proper equipment. Given enough time to hone my 'very' basic skills and acquire the more complex skills that are lacking, a project like a V-8 is a possibility. Maybe in 5 years or so it could become a reality, who knows?

At the moment I'm struggling with what must be one of the simplest I.C. engines ever designed and made publicly available. By building 5 variations of one basic design I have at least a 50/50 chance that one that of them will run, or maybe not. As long as I stay busy, and make parts I can handle, I'm having fun. 

-Rick


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Hey MB, you're doing a fine job of documenting this Upshur for me. It was for me, for when I get back to my build, right? Lookin' fine, so fine...


What color are you going to paint these? If I may, I suggest maybe a greenish, self-etching primer sort of color. :big:


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Hey Rick---Did you cut the valves and the seats on the same angle, or do it as Bogs outlined, where the included angle of the valve is slightly greater than that of the seat?


----------



## Deanofid

Looks like I missed a few days of your posts, Rick. Things are looking very good!



			
				Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Thanks Dean. Setting up for the first piece is the harder part, the rest are just time consuming repletion. Once I get a good pace going I don't want to stop. The "production mode" is the fun part that I enjoy the most. I push for the highest speed, with accuracy to avoid making scrap. I usually push too hard and the latter (scrap) starts to pile up!



Yep, I do some production work now and then, usually for paying jobs on small parts. I always do like you, and make a few extras to make up for the goof up factor. 



> I haven't seen you posting on a build thread lately, are you working on any project at the moment?
> -MB



I'm staying busy. I have a build going on a casting kit. When I progress a bit on it, I'll start a thread. 
Thanks for asking!

Keep it up. You're going great guns.

Dean


----------



## Metal Butcher

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> Hey MB, you're doing a fine job of documenting this Upshur for me. It was for me, for when I get back to my build, right? Lookin' fine, so fine...
> 
> What color are you going to paint these? If I may, I suggest maybe a greenish, self-etching primer sort of color. :big:



Hey Trout, Good to hear from you. Your to funny! I just spilled coffee all over the key board while laughing! Rof} Rof} Rof}
Well yes, of course its all for you, I hate I.C. engines, and I'm not posting all of these boring pictures of parts for myself to look at. I'm hoping to get you inspired to make some of your own, that I can look at. Green? I got green. I'm going to do one up in primer green just for your viewing pleasure! Thanks for the suggestion.
Make a valve seat cutter and show me how its done, I'm stumped! :shrug:

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Looks like I missed a few days of your posts, Rick. Things are looking very good!
> 
> Yep, I do some production work now and then, usually for paying jobs on small parts. I always do like you, and make a few extras to make up for the goof up factor.
> 
> I'm staying busy. I have a build going on a casting kit. When I progress a bit on it, I'll start a thread.
> Thanks for asking!
> 
> Keep it up. You're going great guns.
> 
> Dean



Hi Dean. I'm glad to hear that your on a project. I was wondering if you got burned out and took a needed break. A casting kit sounds real nice. Could you and the rest of the members kindly slow down a bit!  ;D
I can't keep up with the latest building trends.

Your "Going great guns". That was the slogan of the Crosman Arms Co. in the 60's. Only a true fan like me would know that. 

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Hey Rick---Did you cut the valves and the seats on the same angle, or do it as Bogs outlined, where the included angle of the valve is slightly greater than that of the seat?



I haven't gotten that far yet, I only rough cut the valve stem 'heads'. After I braze the 'heads' on to the 'stems' they will be re-cut. I started on the seat cutter today and I'm stumped on cutting the relief with a square collet block clamped at a 45* angle in the mill vise. As far as the angles go, I'm leaning towards following the plans that show a 45* angle for the valves, seats, and cutter. I sticking to K.I.S.S. on this build. As far as I know, the object of this game is to get all the angles identical. scratch.gif

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

143) I'm back in action after spending the better part of two days tramming my mill and truing up my milling vise. On a 5-1/4" circle my mill was off by .006" in two directions, and my vise ways were off by .002" on a 4" width. I settled on a .0005" off tram, and less than .0002" on the vise on 6". The surface of the mills table travel shows .0001 at the most on 1-ft. My mill has been causing me to spend a lot of time compensating for its inaccuracies. I mentioned my mill problems to Gbritnell and he explained how I should go about with the tramming. With the knowledge and inspiration I was provided, I went right to it and solved my mill problems for good. Thanks again George! :bow:

In the picture below I'm machining the 'valve guides'. A pretty simple operation, but the holes needed to be carefully reamed, and will hopefully be concentric with their outer diameter's. If they are off a bit, or go-off a bit during assembly (its possible), then the valve seat cutter will do its job, and solve the problem by cutting a seat that's concentric with the reamed holes in the valve guides.







144) I broke the sharp edges on the reamed holes, test fitted a piece 3/32" drill to check the bores, and their done.






145) Here I'm testing their fit on one of the heads. And they feel like a perfect fit. I love it when parts fit, its like frosting on a cake.






146) In the picture below I'm cutting off one of the valve steam heads. 






147) I only need 10 finished valve stems. With the set up and moves all worked out, it was quick and easy to make a few extras.






148) I cut the valve stem rods a little over size and ground them on my belt sander to plus .002" minus .000" of the specified length. The smaller batch on the right, are the longer ones used on the F-head engines. Its hard to see the cut grooves for the retaining clips.






149) Here's where I shine. I like to braze, but I hate the clean-up! I try to be very careful but it doesn't seem to matter in the end. I only managed a few pieces as 'picture guy' was in a big hurry to go sliding around on the snow covered streets of northern Ohio with his car.

The brazing went well. Here's how I did it. I created a 'moat' for the silver brazing material by opening up the top of the hole in the head with 8 twists of a countersink, about .020". And used 2 twists at the smaller bottom end. I beveled the valve stem 'rod' 10* to 15*, and about .020" wide. Since the rod is a slip fit into the head I scribed it with about 5 or 6 lines length wise and only where the head will sit. This creates a sort of light press fit to secure and equally space the head on the rod to allow for the braze to flow completely around the joint. All the surfaces were fluxed before assembly. I wrapped the brazing rod around a valve rod to create a sort of spring and cut single loops. The single loops were then cut in half and compressed, and only a half loop was used on each stem assembly. With the assembly standing head up, it was fluxed again and the small piece of braze material set on top and in the middle of the rod. I applied the heat to the lower intersection of the rod and base, at the base of the head. I didn't take much heat at all using a standard propane torch, to make the brazing flow down and though the entire joint.






150) The 'moat' worked like a charm to keep most of the brazing off the top of the valve head where it's not needed. The silver brazing rod I used was .031" in diameter. If I had used a larger diameter rod, a square cut 'pillow' would have been sufficient to fill the small gap in a tight joint like this. Its easy to create flow, as it always runs towards the heat source. If you look real close, you can see that the brazing reached and emerged at the intersection between the head and the rod indicating a good solid joint.






151) I started on the 'valve seat cutter". I'm still stumped on how to create the relief. scratch.gif






152) Same cutter, different angle.






That's all for today, hope you enjoyed my post. 

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I set my cutter up in the mill vice and used a small file to cut the relief in--this of course was before any hardening. Its not very difficult---you have to file in a circular motion, taking care not to run into the cutting edge behind the one you are filing, and to start your stroke with very light pressure, increasing the pressure as you sweep the file around/across the part. What you HOPE to do is not cut any metal right at the cutting edge, but to cut more and more behind the cutting edge as your file sweeps around under ever increasing pressure. Not a very exact science, but lacking the equipment GBritnell has, its the only way I could think of----and I was desperate!!! It seems to have worked okay, because when I cut my brass valve seats with VERY light hand pressure, I ended up with small brass filings on each cutting edge of the cutter. If any one edge had been out very much, it wouldn't have shown the chips.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Brian. It looks like using a file is my only option at the moment. It seems like a barbaric method that won't have a happy ending. One miss placed file stroke and the cutting edge is toast.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

You have the choice of joining Brian the Barbarian or buying more sophisticated equipment the equal of G Britnells and learning how to use it. ;D ;D ;D And you're right---it is a bit barbaric. I hate doing any kind of machining process that I can't measure or quantify in some way. You didn't see it in any of the pictures I posted, but the other end of the tool I machined was done first---it turned out perfect except it "grew" just a teensy bit in the middle of that 0.093" section---enough that I was afraid it would damage the inside of the valve guides if I forced it. So I set it up in the lathe and took my sharpest carbide tool---just shaved it a cats whisker---and the entire .093 tip snapped off like glass. I said a few choice words and then popped the hardened end of the tool into the chuck and machined it all over again at the other (still soft) end, and then hardened the second end. I was so desperate that I made the tool as a sort of last resort mode---and even then I had no compression untill I lapped each valve with 350 grit,600 grit, and then toothpaste.


----------



## ddmckee54

Many many moons ago, somewhere in the mid 70's, my auto mechanics instructor taught me to grind the seat at one angle and the valve about 1 degree less. You then lap the valve until you have a continuous ring around the valve, that way you know the valves will seal. I can't see why the same process can't be applied here.

Long time lurker,
Don


----------



## Metal Butcher

ddmckee54  said:
			
		

> Many many moons ago, somewhere in the mid 70's, my auto mechanics instructor taught me to grind the seat at one angle and the valve about 1 degree less. You then lap the valve until you have a continuous ring around the valve, that way you know the valves will seal. I can't see why the same process can't be applied here.
> 
> Long time lurker,
> Don



I'm sure it could be, and its been done either accidentally or on perpose by some. If the seat on one of these small engines with 1/4" valves is a very small one, say about .010" to .015", than that should be enough to make a good seal with a very light lapping.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> So I set it up in the lathe and took my sharpest carbide tool---just shaved it a cats whisker---and the entire .093 tip snapped off like glass. I said a few choice words and then popped the hardened end of the tool into the chuck and machined it all over again at the other (still soft) end, and then hardened the second end.



Brian. A while back I posted that the cutters should be 'drawn back' meaning slightly annealed after hardening, and some of the members disagreed, saying it wasn't needed. I vowed not to say any more about it on that thread.

I did a small amount of heat treating a long time ago and learned quickly, that you do not want to drop a tool or part in its fully hardened state. I did, and when it hit the concrete floor I found out how brittle it really was. It's as brittle, or more, than a glass object of the same size and shape. Its important to understand that the thin sharp honed edges on a cutting tool are very susceptible to chipping if they haven't been properly annealed. As an experiment, cut two pieces of 1/4" rill rod 1" long and harden both in the same manner. Clean them up with emery paper. Draw one back by heating it up till it turns yellow and at just a hint of blue quench it again. Put on heavy shop clothing to protect all exposed skin, wear heavy welders gloves, and a full face shield. Give them a few good taps with a hammer to see which one cracks first, and to see how easy it was to crack it. In this contest the 'hard' guy looses.

To anneal, a part or tool is cleaned up bright, and heated till it reaches a certain color, and then its quenched again. Drawing back is a very simple process that only takes a few minutes. I would not leave out this very important final step.

-MB


----------



## gbritnell

Barbaric, barbaric!!! And here I thought all those years of filing I did was something of an art form. Come on guys, you can't let endmills do all the work for you. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty a little.
Rick, do the Upshur plans call for brass heads on the valves? When we talked I just figured you were going to make them out of the same material as the stems.
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Barbaric, barbaric!!! And here I thought all those years of filing I did was something of an art form. Come on guys, you can't let endmills do all the work for you. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty a little.
> Rick, do the Upshur plans call for brass heads on the valves? When we talked I just figured you were going to make them out of the same material as the stems.
> George



Hi George. When 'you' work the files with your talented hands the results are a form of art. :bow:

When 'I' work the files with my unsure hands the results are barbaric. Rof}

Plans? The plans call for creativity! Please don't tell me I messed up by using brass for the valve heads. oh: 

-MB


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Rick,
 ??? ??? ???
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

153) I finished brazing all of the valve stem assemblies







154) The mess left by the brazing was cleaned up, and the seat area was trued up using a collet held bushing made specifically for this purpose.






155) Here's a close-up of the valve stems






156) I used a grinding stone held in my Dremel tool to cut the relief on the valve seat cutter. after heat treatment the cutting edge was stone sharpened. It was much quicker and easier than I had thought. I drilled and reamed a test block for the cutter duplicating the dimensions and free space under the valve seat.






157) I trial cut four seats to different depths. The tool cuts very fast. and gives a nice clean smooth seating surface. To my surprise the cutting action is much faster than any my factory made countersinks.






158) Starting over I made 10 new valve stem 'heads' from steel. It was brought to my attention that brass was not the best choice for the exhaust valves. Apparently the heating and cooling causes thermal shock which brass does not hold up to very well.






I'll make up new stems, braze up the valve stem assemblies, and true up all the surfaces on the valve stem heads.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Ha---Knew you could do it-----Barbarian!!!!


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Ha---Knew you could do it-----Barbarian!!!!



Hey Brian, it took me only a few minutes using the Dremel! Thm:

And I didn't even get my hands dirty! stickpoke

 Rof} Rof} Rof} Rof}

-MB


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> 158) Starting over I made 10 new valve stem 'heads' from steel. It was brought to my attention that brass was not the best choice for the exhaust valves. Apparently the heating and cooling causes thermal shock which brass does not hold up to very well.



Bummer! But good to know. Still, the cleaned up stems look impressive. It surprises me how well things clean up after brazing.

When you found out...are you the type of guy whose shoulders sagged a bit, you mumbled a 'drat', and then went on? Or the type of guy that causes parents to place their hands over their childs' ears?


----------



## Metal Butcher

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Bummer! But good to know. Still, the cleaned up stems look impressive. It surprises me how well things clean up after brazing.
> 
> When you found out...are you the type of guy whose shoulders sagged a bit, you mumbled a 'drat', and then went on? Or the type of guy that causes parents to place their hands over their childs' ears?



Hey Zee

I usually mumble a word or two and, get right back to it.

Drat? No, my vocabulary is considerably advanced. ;D

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Rick--If I might ask, what is the cylinder bore and stroke of the engines you are building? I am considering building an Upshur carburetor for my engine, because I can not get it to run consistently.The bore through the Upshur carburetor is 0.125 or 0.156 depending on which plans you have (mine are an early set--1977) The Kerzel is a 3/16" and 1/4" bore through the carb. The Kerzel is 3/4" bore x 0.8" stroke.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Rick--If I might ask, what is the cylinder bore and stroke of the engines you are building? I am considering building an Upshur carburetor for my engine, because I can not get it to run consistently.The bore through the Upshur carburetor is 0.125 or 0.156 depending on which plans you have (mine are an early set--1977) The Kerzel is a 3/16" and 1/4" bore through the carb. The Kerzel is 3/4" bore x 0.8" stroke.



Brian, the Upshur bore is .750" with a 1.000" stroke.

1) Carburetor assembly with optional throttle, page 16A dated 8-1-96, .187" diam thru bore.

2) Carburetor assembly, page 15 dated 7-8-77, .125" diam thru bore.

Carb's looks easy to build, go for it, its worth a try.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

My drawing says July-77 and calls for a .156 bore thru. Maybe Hamilton rethought that and shrunk it down to 0.125. I don't know if 7-8-77 is the 7th of august or the 8th of July.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> My drawing says July-77 and calls for a .156 bore thru. Maybe Hamilton rethought that and shrunk it down to 0.125. I don't know if 7-8-77 is the 7th of august or the 8th of July.



That's interesting, your drawing says "July 77" and mine says 7-8-77. Here In the States 7-8-77 means July 8th 1977, And Hamilton lived in Pennsylvania, USA.

You could make two with everything identical except the bores. One with .125" bore and the other with a .187" bore. And then try out both using the same, one and only needle.

I wonder if all the other dimensions are the same. If it doesn't infringe on the 'copy write' post a drawing or dimensions of the "July 77" carb.

-MB


----------



## gmac

Brian;
My drawing set shows the same info as MB has stated. Dates are the same as his also. As an additional data point for you Hamilton's flat opposed twin engine uses the same carb as drawn on page 16A of his Farm Engines drawing set (0.187in. thru bore). The outlet is simply branched to feed the two cylinders. The twin's are 0.75in. bore and 0.72in. stroke.
Cheers
Garry


----------



## rudydubya

A few years ago I ordered the four issues of Strictly IC Magazine (#77-80) for the Upshur plans. Those drawings are dated July, 1977 and show the carburetor bore as 0.156. Since the magazine series did not include the hit-and-miss governor option, I then ordered the plans from his daughter to get the governor drawings. The drawing for the carburetor assembly is dated 7-8-77, and shows the carburetor bore as 0.125. That's what I used.

Rudy


----------



## Metal Butcher

rudydubya  said:
			
		

> A few years ago I ordered the four issues of Strictly IC Magazine (#77-80) for the Upshur plans. Those drawings are dated July, 1977 and show the carburetor bore as 0.156. Since the magazine series did not include the hit-and-miss governor option, I then ordered the plans from his daughter to get the governor drawings. The drawing for the carburetor assembly is dated 7-8-77, and shows the carburetor bore as 0.125. That's what I used.
> 
> Rudy



Hi Rudy, I started on the basic version of the carb's yesterday, and used .125" as the main bore with a reduced area at the intersection of the cross bore, where the needle and jet are located. My plans also include a larger bore carb with a 'barrel' that houses the needle and jet. The barrel can be rotated to reduce the size of the venturi. Its good to hear that you used the .125" bore. I watched your video several times and it's obviously a carburator that works.

Edit: I just realized that your avatar picture is a model of the Upshur air cooled horizontal! Very nice!

-MB


----------



## rudydubya

Thanks MB. I also built that barrel-type carburetor per the plans as a learning experience and tried it just to see how it performed. Worked pretty good, I was able to throttle it down pretty slow. But I prefer the hit-and-miss. Looking forward to watching yours in action.

Regards,
Rudy


----------



## Metal Butcher

159) For today's post I made the carburetors for my Upshur Farm Engines project. yesterday I made up two carb assemblies and forgot to take pictures. It doesn't really mater since I made four more today, shown in the picture below. After soldering up the first two I changed my approach on the next four. First I drilled .093" all the way through them to create a smaller diameter venturi area at the needle valve/jet area. The .093" bore will be used as a convenient way to add the flux and solder. The first two were assembled by adding solder to the joint from the outside. This method left a noticeably uneven fillet joint.The .125" bore will be added later by drilling from both ends and leaving a 1/8" section at the needle valve .093" to create the venturi. 






160) I fluxed the pieces and assembled them in my all purpose vice for soldering. More flux was added down the bore, along with a pillow of solder. I heated the pieces at their joint just till a thin line of solder showed on the out side. The heat draws out the solder and leaves a very presentable joint using this method.






161) Here I'm finishing up the end where the fuel line connects to with a #68 drill. A larger 1/16" hole stops short of the main bore and is finished up with a #68 drill to create the jet.






162) The carb is reversed in the collet, to drill and tap for a threaded 2-56 needle valve.






163)To make the needle valve I used a stainless steel 2-56 x 1" long screw sharpened to a shallow angle point. I cut off the screw's head and chucked the threaded rod in my cordless drill. With the drill running in the opposite direction I used my running belt sander to create the point on the needle valve. The oversize screw was trimmed to length after test fitting the adjusting knob. I used #609 Loctite to attach the knobs. And the springs I used are Enco 240-0556 .180x.016x.500 music wire.






The two Carburetors on the left were soldered from the outside, and the four on the right were soldered from the inside.

Just like the song. Do you see what I see....

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Very interesting Rick. I built one of those carbs yesterday, with the 1/8" bore straight thru, and although it seems to work fine, without the venturi it will not lift fuel to the carb, so must be gravity fed from a fuel supply higher than the carburetor. And of course, when the engine is shut off, if you don't immediately shut the needle valve all the way, then fuel puddles in the cylinder and floods the engine terribly. The first carb I built for my Kerzel did have a venturi, and when I cranked the engine over with my electric drill to start it, it would create enough venturi related vacuum to lift fuel 5 or 6 inches. With the Upshur straight bore carb you could crank the engine over all day and not lift any fuel.----Brian


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Very interesting Rick. I built one of those carbs yesterday, with the 1/8" bore straight thru, and although it seems to work fine, without the venturi it will not lift fuel to the carb, so must be gravity fed from a fuel supply higher than the carburetor. And of course, when the engine is shut off, if you don't immediately shut the needle valve all the way, then fuel puddles in the cylinder and floods the engine terribly. The first carb I built for my Kerzel did have a venturi, and when I cranked the engine over with my electric drill to start it, it would create enough venturi related vacuum to lift fuel 5 or 6 inches. With the Upshur straight bore carb you could crank the engine over all day and not lift any fuel.----Brian



Brian, sorry to be the one to give you the bad news. The plans do not show a strait bore. If you take a good look at the drawing you can see that both 1/8" tubes intrude into the "strait bore", and create the venturi "vacuum" to draw the fuel up against gravity. 

I changed the construction of my carbs for the cosmetic reason stated, while I maintained a venturi vacuum by a smaller thru hole I drilled initially. I opened up the bore from both sides, and left the smaller initial diameter at the needle and jet area.

No big deal really, you only need one, and they are very quick and easy to make.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I wonder if Hamilton found that out too, so just increased the bore on both sides to 0.156 to give the same net venturi effect?


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> I wonder if Hamilton found that out too, so just increased the bore on both sides to 0.156 to give the same net venturi effect?



Brian, found what out too?

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

You seen the carb drawing I sent you. If you do the math, the inlet and the part with the 2-56 thread do not extend into the bore creating a venturi. I wonder if Hamilton realized that after the carb was made wth a straight thru 1/8 bore, so drilled the main body out to 0156 on each side, leaving it 1/8" in the area where those the other parts attach so as to create a venturi effect.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> You seen the carb drawing I sent you. If you do the math, the inlet and the part with the 2-56 thread do not extend into the bore creating a venturi. I wonder if Hamilton realized that after the carb was made wth a straight thru 1/8 bore, so drilled the main body out to 0156 on each side, leaving it 1/8" in the area where those the other parts attach so as to create a venturi effect.



Brian, Well actually the drawings do show the tubes extending into the bore to create a venturi.

I'm a little slow when it comes to math, so check my figures for accuracy.

Main body diam is .250, with a drilled .156 hole you have a .047 wall thickness.

The threaded tube for the needle is .250 long, pushing it in leaves it .187 proud. With a length difference of .063. Subtracting .047 wall thickness gives a.016 intrusion into the .156 bore. Add to that the intrusion of the fuel line/jet tube and you have roughly a .030 reduction to create the venturi.

Quote "I wonder if Hamilton realized that after the carb was made wth a straight thru 1/8 bore, so drilled the main body out to 0156 on each side, leaving it 1/8" in the area where those the other parts attach so as to create a venturi effect."

Its an interesting assumption, but not what your drawing shows, and not what my drawing shows. With neither the Kerzel carb, or the Upshur carb working to your satisfaction, Why not use your abilities to design your own and be done with it.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Rick--I may be an Ace design engineer, but that doesn't mean I know anymore about carburetors than the next guy. However---I havn't had time to do any real difinitive testing on the Upshur carb, and yes you are right, there is a .015 intrusion into the main air gallery by the two 1/8" diameter peices. Whether this creates much venturi effect or not is something that I will do more testing on. However, all is not lost. If the parts do not extend a full .015 into the air stream on the carb I built, there is enough room to drill 2 more 1/8" holes at 90 degrees to the existing ones and make up a couple of "intrusion plugs" and loctite them into place, creating the elusive Venturi effect.


----------



## Metal Butcher

164) For today's post I made the 'spool' for the hit-n-miss mechanism. I was rather busy today with home related projects that limited my shop time. After drilling and reaming the bore, the profile was cut with my parting tool. I used six carriage moves to make the cuts, plus a final parting cut.






165) The machining on the first one was not quite up to my expectations. I had forgotten to touch up the cutting edge after using it to cut off the previously made valve stem assemblies. And I found the final 'cut off' to be short by .002" leaving the last disc only .060" wide. After honing the cutting edge and adding .002" to the final figure, I machined the 5 spools needed with out any further problems. 






I didn't get much done today, but the spools turned out well.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

166) Good news Guys! George's friend dropped of my first batch of flywheel casting today. They look really good, and I can't wait to machine them up. For now though, they will have to wait. Thanks again George, your pattern work was superb and exactly what I wanted! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:






-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Good Morning Rick---Happy christmas day!!!! I notice that on both my Kerzel engine and on the Upshur plans I have, there is no provision for oiling the wrist pin. On the webster I built, he does have a very neat trick whereby a small tube runs from the outside of the piston skirt thru to the wrist pin, and there is an oiler at the end of the cylinder which not only keeps the piston/cylinder wall oiled, but also delivers a drop of oil down the tube to the wrist pin bearings every time the piston gets to the end where the oiler is. Have you thought about that? I just built a huge set of main bearing oilers for my engine, (see Drip oilers---with a secret) and I MIGHT build a cylinder oiler for the cylinder so I can avoid running mixed fuel. I'd like to have this engine set up to run for hours at a time (if I ever get it running correctly). and the lack of oil to the wrist pin concerns me. I have just checked both sets of plans, and unfortunately the wrist pin area on both engines doesn't get far enough away from the cylinder head to be directly under a drip oiler at the far end of the cylinder, unless the tube was set into the piston at an angle.----Brian


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Good Morning Rick---Happy christmas day!!!! I notice that on both my Kerzel engine and on the Upshur plans I have, there is no provision for oiling the wrist pin. On the webster I built, he does have a very neat trick whereby a small tube runs from the outside of the piston skirt thru to the wrist pin, and there is an oiler at the end of the cylinder which not only keeps the piston/cylinder wall oiled, but also delivers a drop of oil down the tube to the wrist pin bearings every time the piston gets to the end where the oiler is. Have you thought about that? I just built a huge set of main bearing oilers for my engine, (see Drip oilers---with a secret) and I MIGHT build a cylinder oiler for the cylinder so I can avoid running mixed fuel. I'd like to have this engine set up to run for hours at a time (if I ever get it running correctly). and the lack of oil to the wrist pin concerns me.----Brian



I saw the provision for 'oiling the wrist pin' on the Webster a few months ago when I downloaded the plans. Personally I won't bother with adding it if I ever build one . Why not? Before running my engine's I always put oil on all of the moving/bearing surfaces with a 'needle oiler'. Areas that need oiling are the valve stem guides, rocker arm pivot, rocker arm clevis, push rod guide, gears, gear pivot pin, cam, crank bearings, piston rod journal, governor assembly, etc. With all these oiling points, adding oil to the wrist pin is just part of what I do to before running any engine. After the initial thrill is gone I never demonstration run an engine for more than a few minutes.

Scale models use functional oilers, and rightfully so. At shows they can be run for long periods of time. If I add any oilers to my builds I won't rely on them, they will be used for cosmetic reasons only. If I don't add oil to my fuel than I will defiantly need a cylinder oiler. The fuel will have a tendency to 'wash' the bore of manually added oil, and adding it with a needle oiler while the engine is running is not practical.

-MB


----------



## Jasonb

EDIT

Brian see reply re wrist pin lubrication in your oiler thread

Sorry MB,Jason


----------



## Metal Butcher

167) With the holiday winding down I took the opportunity to post some pictures and clear my camera.
To make the 'carrier" for the governor a block of aluminum was centered and squared up in the lathe.






168) I drilled two clearance holes for the bolts that will hold the carrier to the flywheel.






169) The center hole was drilled in stages of progressively larger drills to keep the size under control. They came out about .003 oversize which will not present any problem. The hub they go over with be dimensioned to suit.






170) I took one central pass over all the work pieces to true them up to the same height. This will make the set up for subsequent machining steps easier.






171) Milling the profile using two cuts.






172) At this stage I drilled and reamed the two holes for the 'arm' pivot pins.






173) I cut the slot with a slitting saw with one slow pass. I used square stock to make the different operations a simple indexing. Much easier for me than starting with 1-1/2" round stock with the equipment that I have.






174) Back to the lathe to create the reduced 1.406" round profile.






175) This was the nerve racking part. Using a parting tool on this large of a diameter was difficult with my 9 x 20 lathe. The tool post on these is somewhat less than rigid. Even though I used the lowest speed it was still touch and go. I always thought it was my lack of ability, but it turns out that others have also had this ridgidity problem. Time for me to upgrade this area and be done with this problem for good.






176) I made an extra set just in case of a miss-hap.






177) Instead of the 2-56 screws used as pivot points, I will be using 3/32" pins held in place with E-clips. To accommodate the 'clips' the two pivot holes on the 'carrier' had to be shifted .010". This meant that the previously made 'arms' had to be made over with a matching hole location. This time around I added profiling that's shown a little vaguely on the plans. I originally intended to add this step later, during a trial fit up.






178) Theirs going to be a lot of intense filling and sanding to get these tiny parts up to standard.






Over the next few days I'll finish up these parts, spend some time cleaning up the mess, and organize the shop a bit before I tackle the next part(s).

-MB


----------



## Deanofid

Things are looking good, Rick. I like the idea of making the round carrier shapes starting with square stock. Saved a fair bit of extra setup time.  I sometimes forget that when making round things.
You mentioned cleaning up shop. I generally get the impression from reading your threads over our many months here that you keep pretty tidy machines. Except for the swarf you're making at the time, they look well cared for and clean. Kind of nice to see that.  Thm:

Something about wrist pin oiling; They do get oiled if you have a cylinder oiler on the engine. Since the pin is below the rings, the wrist pin hole in the piston picks up oil as it sweeps the side of the cylinder. The pin and rod have such a small rotation that it doesn't take much. Your drop or two of oil with the needle oiler would probably last quite some time, anyway.

Dean


----------



## zeeprogrammer

That was an interesting post MB (as most of them are).
How did you come up with the procedure? Was it yours?
I'm sure I would have had all kinds of problems trying to make such parts.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Things are looking good, Rick. I like the idea of making the round carrier shapes starting with square stock. Saved a fair bit of extra setup time.  I sometimes forget that when making round things.
> You mentioned cleaning up shop. I generally get the impression from reading your threads over our many months here that you keep pretty tidy machines. Except for the swarf you're making at the time, they look well cared for and clean. Kind of nice to see that.  Thm:
> 
> Something about wrist pin oiling; They do get oiled if you have a cylinder oiler on the engine. Since the pin is below the rings, the wrist pin hole in the piston picks up oil as it sweeps the side of the cylinder. The pin and rod have such a small rotation that it doesn't take much. Your drop or two of oil with the needle oiler would probably last quite some time, anyway.
> 
> Dean



Hi Dean. If I make a good amount of chips, a daily clean up helps me to keep my footing. I don't like the unsure feeling of walking on freshly laid gravel. I try to clean up at the end of the day if I have enough time or strength left in me. If I'm making small parts, I can get usually away away with just taking a few minutes to vacuum the machine. I'm not real fussy about cleanliness, although starting out the day in a clean shop is nice. Thank you for your kind words

Starting out with a square block of aluminum was easier to set up, and the only logical choice for me. I have a foot of expensive ($50) 1-1/2" brass round stock, but just couldn't see the sense of using it on this part. The more logical choice of scrap yard aluminum square bar weighed in at under 3-lb, and cost me less than $3. 

Since I always oil my engines before a run the wrist pins are not an issue, and they hold on to oil very well. The only engine that ever concerned me is the radial shown on my avatar. With its enclosed crank case oiling individual points is impossible. To eliminate any lubrication concerns I fill the crank case up 1/3 with 10-wt oil. The oil splashes all around the interior and lubricates everything including the wrist pins. I know that for a fact, because I unscrewed the oil cap while running the engine, and oil sprayed out all over me! I added a drain plug on the bottom of the crank case so that oil changes are possible.

A little silly, buy possible! ;D

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> That was an interesting post MB (as most of them are).
> How did you come up with the procedure? Was it yours?
> I'm sure I would have had all kinds of problems trying to make such parts.



Hi Zee. I'm glad you found my post interesting. Its getting harder, and harder, to please the crowd these days. :shrug:

I just worked out the procedures in my mind by meditating in the porcelain library. I don't recall ever seeing any one making a carrier, so yes, it's all mine. Although I doubt if I'm the only one that's ever made a round piece using a square to start with.

Quoting Zee; "I'm sure I would have had all kinds of problems trying to make such parts." 

I don't think you would have any problem making the 'carrier', if that's the part your referring to. Look the pictures over again, its just one simple step after another. 

I know you could do it! Thinking about it, is sometimes more work than doing it. :idea:

-MB


----------



## cfellows

Hey MB,

I usually check in on your build ever day. I get a little careless about leaving comments, but do enjoy your work. I continue to learn from you. Building 6 engines at one time is beyond my comprehension!  ;D I think I have adult ADD.

Chuck


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Chuck. Thanks for stopping by to take a look, your comments are always welcome. I realize that we all have projects that were working on, and they limit the time we can spend trying to keep up with all the new posts. I learn a lot from you, and that's why without this forum I would be lost, and with out any direction. I took on a bigger project than I realized, and I don't see when it will end. I find myself spending a lot of time doing research on simple items like the 'fuel line' for example. Looking at all the different materials and sizes, ones to small, ones to big, you know what I mean. A lot of the members already crossed these bridges and don't need to waste time on these basics.

I try to stay busy enough so that I don't have the time to think about my physical and mental shortcomings. This is where a slightly overwhelming project has its benefit. 

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

I'm at a stand still today, and pulling whats left of my hair out. I'm trying to figure out how to make the 'arm return spring'. It attaches to the 'push rod guide' with a single screw. There are no dimensions given on the drawing of it. Its a flat 'J' shaped piece of thin metal. The only information provided is, "M/F thin sheet metal (1)".

Any idea what that means, I'm lost, and getting a head ache! :wall:

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#179 I finished up filing and sanding the brass 'arms' and the aluminum 'carriers' over the last few days. With the multitude of surfaces to deal with, these took quite a bit of time.






#180 I started on the 'arm return springs' by shearing off strips of shim stock and cutting them to length. To punch the bolt clearance holes, I made a quick two piece fixture held together with a single cap screw plus a line up pin. After drilling through both the drill bit was reversed on the chuck and used like a punch in a punch press. This is a dubious method that can damage a drill and/or chuck, so use your discretion about using this method.






#181 Shown below are the semi finished 'arm return springs'. I put one that was bent to shape in position on a push rod guide. The 'arm' will be centered on the push rod hole seen in the picture. I had no idea on how to make these with out any given dimensions on the plan, so I went ahead and winged it by measuring the drawing. I used a springy brass shim stock since I didn't have the specified "M/F thin sheet metal," what ever that is.






#182 My Tygon fuel line finally arrived today, took a little longer than I expected, but at least its the right stuff. I started on the exhaust tubes today, and after cutting one (the long one) to length and drilling it through I realized that they look way too simplistic. I cut the rest of them with three shorter lengths. I'm going to experiment with different muffler shapes and sizes threaded on the pipes to see what I can come up with. I would like them all to be at least slightly different. The plans call for a piece of tubing from a hobby shop. I prefer to drill my own to have something a little more sturdy with threaded on mufflers.






#183 My broach set also came in today! I just couldn't resist showing off what I consider to be an extravagance. Not my doing alone, "Honey" talked me into buying the more expensive duMont made in USA set. I just ordered it the other day, now that what I call great service!






#184 The quality looks super, inside and out.






I need to deal with my lathes tool post's lack of rigidity, buy some key stock, make a tap extension, and muster up the courage to machine the flywheels. But first I need to deal with a lot of small parts, and get to the main frame work for the engines. There's still a lot of work ahead.

-MB


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Rick,
I'm glad to see you are buying some very nice tooling. I won't have to travel far to use them. :big: :big:
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Rick,
> I'm glad to see you are buying some very nice tooling. I won't have to travel far to use them. :big: :big:
> George



Hi George. "use them"? I bought these just to 'look' at! 

I promise to let you 'look' at them when you stop by. Rof} Rof}

-MB


----------



## tel

> Any idea what that means, I'm lost, and getting a head ache! wall bash
> 
> -MB



'_Made from_' thin sheet metal?????? Just a wild guess.

You're doing really well MB, I'm struggling enough doing a single engine.


----------



## Metal Butcher

tel  said:
			
		

> '_Made from_' thin sheet metal?????? Just a wild guess.
> 
> You're doing really well MB, I'm struggling enough doing a single engine.



Hi Tell. Thank you for the compliment. I prefer smaller projects like I did last year that only took two weeks to complete. I've been struggling along with this project for over 2 months now. Every every time I look at the plans I find more and more parts to make, and more problems to solve! :redface2:

Oh, how I long for a wobbler. :'(

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#185 To start off the new year I made some 'new' parts. The plans call for the exhaust to be a strait piece of tubing. A little to plain for my taste, so I went ahead and made a few variations that can be changed out or switched around easily. These are very simple parts to machine so I didn't take any boring set up pictures. The only trick part that I can think of is drilling the four rectangular holes in three of them. 






#186 Did I get you to start thinking, " this guy is nuts, you can't drill a square hole." Ah! But you can fake it by making the muffler out of two pieces, and milling two cross slots with an end mill on the lower half that's threaded onto the pipe. The upper 'cap' is then soldered on, and a light truing cut on the O.D. in the lathe, helps to conceal the joint line.







How I long for a wobbler
Oh to cobble
To make it wobble
Will it run
It will be fun
Love a wobbler

-MB


----------



## T70MkIII

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> #186 Did I get you to start thinking, " this guy is nuts, you can't drill a square hole." Ah! But you can fake it by making the muffler out of two pieces, and milling two cross slots with an end mill on the lower half that's threaded onto the pipe. The upper 'cap' is then soldered on, and a light truing cut on the O.D. in the lathe, helps to conceal the joint line.



Nicely done :bow:


----------



## Brian Rupnow

We're still eating left over Christmas gobbler
And here you're complainin' and wantin a wobbler.
Give up the machining and become a cobbler!!! ;D ;D ;D


----------



## Metal Butcher

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> Nicely done :bow:



Thanks Richard. I appreciate your compliment. 

-MB


----------



## 1hand

MB,

When you get to broaching your flywheels, could you take a bunch of pics and either post them here or email them to me? I never seen it done, and if I ever get to one of the geared loco's I want to build, there is a ton of gears that need to be keyed. I want see how that is done the right way. :big:

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> We're still eating left over Christmas gobbler
> And here you're complainin' and wantin a wobbler.
> Give up the machining and become a cobbler!!! ;D ;D ;D



Excellent Brian! Hope that bird was still good. I'm glad to meet a fellow shop poet! Thm:

I also like to sing and dance around the shop, mostly operas. My performances are based around the tragedy of a hopelessly inept apprentice, torn by his desire to gain the illusive approval of his talented peers. It a very moving performance. :'(

I would post a video in the 'break room' but my modesty precludes me. Rof}

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

1hand  said:
			
		

> MB,
> 
> When you get to broaching your flywheels, could you take a bunch of pics and either post them here or email them to me? I never seen it done, and if I ever get to one of the geared loco's I want to build, there is a ton of gears that need to be keyed. I want see how that is done the right way. :big:
> 
> Matt



Sure Matt, more than happy to oblige. I'll be sure to post a step by step with pictures, on how I broach a key way. Thanks for asking.

All I have to do is some research, to see how its actually done! ;D

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#187 I was not sure if I should add oilers to my engines. Since I have a lot of oilers to make, the use of glass did not appeal to me. After a little digging around on the internet I found a plastic substitute worthy of a try. Not only is this material inexpensive, its also seemed relatively safe to machine. How it holds up to oil remains to be seen. I ordered four sizes to cover all the possibilities, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, and 1/2". If you order any beware that its sold in 6 FT pieces. Since its so inexpensive I failed to notice that it was 6ft, not 6 inches, and thinking 2 ft of each, nearly ordered 24 ft of each size! :big:

http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Extruded-Plexiglass-Acrylic-Tubing

Below I'm cutting off a 1/4" piece of the 5/16" diameter tubing that I decided would be about the right size for the crank shaft oilers. The material is thick and easy to machine. I cut off slowly, since I didn't know how the stuff would behave. It went well, and I didn't have any problems.







#188 A step .050 long x the I.D. of the tube was machined on 5/16" diameter brass stock. In the picture I'm reaming the hole through the base part of the oiler for a threaded 1/8" tube.






#189 I cut off the base leaving 1/16" material, this will be outside of the tube.






#190 The first end of the 1/8" tube was drilled #56 x 1/8" deep. After the tube is threaded, cut off, and reversed in the collet, a 1/16" hole will be drilled to meet up with the #56 hole drilled from the first end.






#191 After drilling the other end 1/16", and threading it 5-40, the 1/8" brass tube is cut off.






#192 I made two sizes to see which would look better. I think the shorter ones with the 1/4" long glass and 1/2" long tube look the best. I'll try other ideas including making a few prototypes of cylinder oilers over the next few days.






These were very simple, and a lot of fun to make. As far as I'm concerned, eliminating the use of glass made these much easier. If I were building a museum quality true to scale model, then the use of glass oilers would be a must. 

-MB


----------



## 1hand

MB,

They look awesome! I can't tell the difference, and I'm sure they where alot easier to make, then using glass.

Great Idea........"mental note #1341...... plastic tube for oilers" :big:

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

#193 Over the last two days I finished up enough 'oiler' parts to cover the five Upshur engines I'm building. The plans call for a plain oil hole added to the side plates above the crank shaft bushings. The idea behind my 'oilers' is to add a little visual interest to a somewhat basic design. In the picture below are all the parts I made for the crank shaft oilers. I made a few extra just in case.






#194 Below is a picture of the 'cylinder oiler' parts I made using the same design as the crank oilers, I made them slightly larger by using 3/8" tubing. The oilers are far from being finished. They need to be assembled with clear silicone, and the threaded tubes need to be secured to the brass bases with Loctite or soft solder. If I use these on the two planned vertical versions, I will need to make some sort of 90* fittings, or use 1/8" elbows if they exist.






It seems like I'm making this simple project more and more complicated. oh: *bang*

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Lovely work Rick---I'm watching every day.---Brian


----------



## joe d

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> I will need to make some sort of 90* fittings, or use 1/8" elbows if they exist.



PM Research has 'em here

You sure are zipping along with this, and they are looking good!

Cheers, Joe


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Rick---I haven't seen that anyone else has asked the question, but why are you building so many? Are you planning to sell some of them? I know that with the time I have invested in even one of my small engines, someone would have to trade me even for a small island in the Carribean before I'd feel that I was fairly compensated.----Brian


----------



## Metal Butcher

joe d  said:
			
		

> PM Research has 'em here
> 
> You sure are zipping along with this, and they are looking good!
> 
> Cheers, Joe



Thanks Joe! Yes, I see they do carry them. When I was at the NAMES show 2 years ago I asked about them for future projects. At the time I was planning on building some of Elmer's Engines, and could have used this smaller size. One of the guys at the PMR table said they didn't make anything smaller than 3/16". I could have really used them on my 'Turkey" build, a three cylinder wobbler designed by Elmer Verburg. Bending up all the tubing was a nightmare.

Thanks again Joe.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Rick---I haven't seen that anyone else has asked the question, but why are you building so many? Are you planning to sell some of them? I know that with the time I have invested in even one of my small engines, someone would have to trade me even for a small island in the Carribean before I'd feel that I was fairly compensated.----Brian



Those are some very good questions Brian! woohoo1

Why am I building so many? 

I ask 'myself' that one with increasing frequency. I guess I was mesmerized by the plan set which allows for at least 10 different versions. Ten seemed a bit much, so I decided on building a paltry five versions. The challenge was also appealing to me. :noidea:

Am I planning on selling some? No, never was. Fact is, Its doubtful that I could get back the money I invested in this project so far, and its not over till the gas fumes explode. Rof}

Was it a good idea? Probably not and I'm starting to question my own sanity. scratch.gif


----------



## hopeless

been following the progress with geat interest as I am about to start on 1 myself. I am ordering the required materials this week, 5 at a time taxes my remaining grey matter so 1 at a time will do me. ;D. I have a question for you regarding the size of initial block you made the body from as I reckon thats the way I will go rather than assemble it.
Keep at it as I love the way you are doing it not to mention the speed.  Am waiting to see how you tackle the valve seats too.
Cheers
Pete


----------



## zeeprogrammer

I had noticed those oilers a couple of days ago and thought I'd made a post. Sorry about that. They look great and I'll be interested to see how the plastic holds up over time.



			
				Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> and I'm starting to question my own sanity.



You are not alone. ;D


----------



## Metal Butcher

hopeless  said:
			
		

> been following the progress with geat interest as I am about to start on 1 myself. I am ordering the required materials this week, 5 at a time taxes my remaining grey matter so 1 at a time will do me. ;D. I have a question for you regarding the size of initial block you made the body from as I reckon thats the way I will go rather than assemble it.
> Keep at it as I love the way you are doing it not to mention the speed.  Am waiting to see how you tackle the valve seats too.
> Cheers
> Pete



Hi Pete, Thanks for taking interest in my project. Its good to hear from another person building the same engine. Building 'one' is a good idea, building a gang of them (of any first build) can become problematic. The good news is that I'm starting to really enjoy the conversations I have with myself. :rant: Rof}

I started with an oversize saw cut block of 6061 aluminum. A good size to start with is 2" x 2" x 2-1/2", or use what ever you feel is appropriate. I measured up my finished water hopper and the final dimensions are 1.937" x 1.500" x 2.250". These are the exact measurements of the built-up hopper on page 4 of the plans. The top plate (cover) is 1.937" x 1.500" x .250".

Feel free to ask questions any time you feel a need for some advise. I'll be more than happy to help out . As with most plans there will be parts that might need an explanation, and dimensions that seem to be missing once you start machining the parts.
I can look at plans sveral times and never see the problems that become apparent once I start machining.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I had noticed those oilers a couple of days ago and thought I'd made a post. Sorry about that. They look great and I'll be interested to see how the plastic holds up over time.
> 
> You are not alone. ;D



Hi Zee. I really don't think there will be a problem with oil in contact with the Plexiglass Acrylic Tubing. I thought about it, and it seems that most everything these days is packaged in some sort of plastic, like paint thinner, trans fluid, oils, vodka...yea vodka!

Too early in the day :'(

-MB


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> it seems that most everything these days is packaged in some sort of plastic, like paint thinner, trans fluid, oils, vodka...yea vodka!



But the vodka never stays in the bottle long...or shouldn't.

Yeah...you're right. Should be fine.


----------



## Metal Butcher

#195 I managed o get a little more done over the last two days. Seems that there's always something that gets in the way of having a full day down in the shop. I was getting a little tired of making small parts so I decided to start drilling and tapping the plates that were cut at the start of this thread.

Below are the side plates for the three horizontal versions. I'm tapping for the crank oilers I made in the last post.






#196 I threw in a picture of my messy M/D. I don't want any one to think that I'm fussy about neatness. 






#197 And the way my bench looks every day of the week. :






#198 After drilling and tapping the holes on the front plate I added a reamed 1/4" hole central to were the cylinder bore will go. Using a shoulder bolt Loctited snugly in place to a scrap block it became a pivot point to create the radius at the top of the front plate. I cut off most of the excess with the band-saw leaving only .030 to .040" to be milled off. I rotated the work into the cutter, and swung the work back to the starting position only after raising the cutter. This was necessary to avoid a 'climb cut' that would likely pull the work right out of my grip. And then I advanced the table towards the cutter by .005" (five thousands only!) This is not a great way to do this, and I do not recomend it. Due to the size of this radius its safer to use a rotary table, or by grinding up to a scribed line using a belt sander.






#199 I took the opportunity to save some time by fileing all three at the same time, to remove the milling marks.






#200 Wow, two hundred pictures! Hope I'm not boring you with too many pictures. :

Below I'm preparing the front plate by drilling it before using the boring head to bring the hole to final dimension. I started with a long #5 center drill followed by a S/D 5/8", and a S/D 27/32" drill. Slow speed was the key to avoiding the chatter that can lead to some serious problems. I used 440 rpm by switching around the drive belts. 

Up until recently I used only one speed and put up with the chatter, the bolts on the mill un-screwing, drills falling out of the chuck, every thing hitting the floor, you know.. the usual 'idiotic rookie' type stuff.
 Rof} Rof} Rof}






#201 I finished up the front plate by bringing it to final dimension using a boring head, using the same slow speed left a nice smooth finish, and I didn't have to deal with hair raising chatter.






#202 Since all the tools were out, and my hands were dirty, I decided to bore out the top plate's that support the cylinders on the vertical versions I'm also building. The bores came out nice and smooth, and the cylinder's fit real nice.






#203 I finished up the top plates by adding the drilled and tapped holes.






#204 In this picture you can see the two counter bored holes in the left plate that's used on the vertical 'F-Head' version. The plate on the right with the two threaded holes is used on the vertical air cooled version. It can get confusing at times making parts for all of the different versions. oh:







#205 The two bases for the vertical versions were also drilled and tapped.






#206 This picture shows most of the parts I just finished up. I forgot that there were some sitting on my other bench.
I'll work on drilling and tapping the side plates for the two vertical versions over the next few days, and the side plates I showed in the beginning of this post need their simple profile milled.






-MB


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> #200 Wow, two hundred pictures! Hope I'm not boring you with too many pictures.



Hardly. ;D Always interesting.


----------



## hopeless

Thanks for the reply MB. I was pondering what to do for an oiler for a bigger version hit & miss that seems to always get put on hold and you come up with the ideal way ;D gaining good ideas to help simplify the larger 1 as well tho thats a casting engine.
Cheers
Pete


----------



## bearcar1

MB. You just go right on posting up pictures to your hearts content, they are clear, concise graphic representations of the steps that some of us may or may not have seen or done before. Yeah baby. Those Upshurs are coming along nicely. Can't wait to see them.

regards

BC1
Jim


----------



## 1hand

you aways have that power feed on your Mill? That looks pretty nice!

Engine Parts looking good too.


----------



## Deanofid

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> #196 I threw in a picture of my messy M/D. I don't want any one to think that I'm fussy about neatness.



Oh yes.. That's very funny, Rick!  ;D 
Always good to check in on your threads. I can count on being greeted with great progress, and sometimes even a humorous quip.

Dean


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi guys!

Carl, Pete, Jim, Thanks for taking interest in my project. 

Matt, I got the power feed for my M/D about 4 years ago. I found out very quickly that hand cranking the table would not work with my back problem. I got mine from Harbor Freight (The power feed, not the bad back), and I think its the same one that CDCO and a few others carry. It needs to be specifically for a Mill/Drill.

Dean, I knew you would enjoy the extra pictures and comment. ;D 

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#207 I finished up drilling and tapping the plates for the two vertical versions. I assembled the plates with 4-40 screws and all the pieces fit together well. The only coment I'd like to make is that a #35 drill specified for the thru holes is way too tight, and the screws need to be threaded in before they reach the threaded holes in the mating plates. Adding profiles to all the side plates is next.







#208 The profile being cut in the picture below is the only one specified in the plans for the horizontal engines. Based on the dimension I used a bevel protractor and determined the profile angle to be between 43-1/2 and 44-1/2 degrees. A little odd, so I went with 45 degrees. I already have a shop made thin 45-d V-block made for my vise. Close enough as far as I'm concerned. In the picture the excess was cut away with the band saw, and touched up with the belt sander. I left only .020" to be milled off. On the front plate you can see the scribed line. I could have easily removed more with the belt sander and finished up with a file. It would have been faster to void a mill set-up, if I were only doing two side plates for a single build.






#209 I attached the thin V-block to the fixed jaw of the vise with double stick (sided) scotch tape. After clamping the work piece in the vise, a vise stop was slid into place and locked down for added support.






#210 I carefully adjusted the height of the cutter several times on the first piece to get it just right. The rest were cut with one pass. In the picture below you can see the roughly scribed lines I use habitually to avoid gross errors, in this case they were unnecessary. 
Chop, chop, in the butcher shop! :big:






#211 Here's where I deviate from the plan and add an additional profile. Before ordering the plan set I noticed the radius above the cylinder on the front plate was a bit tall and odd looking. The front plate is 1.500" wide with an indicated radius of .937". To rectify this eye catching situation the radius needed to be reduced. A .750" radius would be the way to go, but this would require the side plates to be milled down to the threaded gear mounting hole. A compromise was in order to reduce the radius on the front plate, and the height of the side plates to make them both look a bit more appealing. The final decision was to use a .780" radius, and to reduce the height of the side plates by .280". The reduction in the side plates also allowed for the same angle to be used in front of the crank shaft bearing points, adding a more symmetrical look to the side plates. 

The lay out was simple. A tight fitting pin was used to line up two plates, with the top plate flipped over the angled line was scribed on one plate to set the cutter at the proper height. 






#212 I used the top of the plate at the bearing point to zero out the mill quill and lower the cutter to the proper height. On the first plate I moved the cutter towards the milled angle till the intersection was just right. Using one cut along the Y axis all of the plates were cut in identically. After they were all cut up to the angle with one pass, the plates were returned to the mill to finish up with the rest that wasn't removed with the critical first cut.






#213 The plates for the vertical (V-1) have a simple 30 degree profile cut on both sides. I had to use shim stock to get a grip on the work, since the angle plate was thicker than the work piece. 

Its always something causing a problem! :wall:






#214 The side plates for the vertical (V-2) version just begged for an alteration. I made the plates the same width as the length of the base plate. The next step was to reduce the upper part of both plates to the original width.

Your probably thinking, "This is one crazy machinist, first he makes it big, then he cuts it up and makes it small!" Rof}






#215 This is where things got interesting. It was getting late and I was starting to feel a little 'punch drunk'. I was scribing lines all over the place and getting seriously confused! I should have quit while I was ahead, but no the "I feel lucky" attitude took over. I forged ahead by milling the 30 degree angles first.






#216 The upper angles went well. The next steps were to cut the lower 30-d angles. After cutting the first one I went to flip over the work and reality set in! I had milled away what little support the lower section of the work piece offered!

Now your thinking "This is one stupid machinist!" Rof} But I had planed on using an adjustable parallel to support the work. :idea:






#217 Here's a group picture of yesterdays shop adventure. The lay out blue that missing from the pieces is not lost, its all over my hands! :






#218 Here's a better close up. H-1, H-2, and H-3. I know you guys like pictures. 






#219 V-1 side plates as drawn in the plan set.






#220 V-2 My modified side plates, no plan at all, really. Slice and dice, just like a Butcher. Rof}






-MB ;D


----------



## marfaguy

Wow!! Very impressive and a little intimidating. I'm following along and understand 
most of it (I think). It'll probably be quite awhile before I attempt something on
this level. But this has already answered some questions about securing work
that were rattling around in my noggin over the last couple of weeks.


----------



## Deanofid

All of a sudden, they're looking like engines! The first assemblies where you can start putting big things together is always a fun part. 
That was a lot of engine frame pieces Rick, and it looks like things are still going well.  Thm:


----------



## njl

Great thread MB, thanks for sharing your progress in such detail. I've really enjoyed watching. This site is just so brilliant for learning new ways of doing things, it really gives me inspiration to try new things. 

Nick


----------



## Metal Butcher

221) Glad to see the board back up. I spent most of my day down in the shop and drilled all the crank assemblies for dowel pins. With a better understanding of speed and feed I ran the 1/16" drill at 2500 rpm. I added #609 Loctite to the pins before installing them. I held the assemblies in the vise with very light pressure to avoid the possibility of distorting them. By light pressure, I mean that I snugged up on them with out using any thing but my finger grip on the hex end of the vises screw.






222) I drilled a 5/16' hole in a block of aluminum to try out my 1/16" broach. I started the broach in the m/d. I was amazed at how easily it cut with very light pressure.






223) Here you can see how thin the curled up chips are. I tried to unravel one to take a measurement, and it just crumbled into small pieces. 






224) I finished up the broaching in a 1/2 ton arbor press. It to bad that these small ones have so little head room. The broackh worked great. It was very easy to cut the key-way with one light pass, and the surface finish produced by the broach is one of the best I have ever seen.






225) In the picture below you can see the test piece finished. I'll be using the same broaching process on the flywheels. And I will be machining the flywheels at a later date after I improve the rigidity of the tool post on my lathe.






226) To cut the 1/16" keyway on the crank shafts I decide to use a woodruff key seat cutter. I was originally planning on using an end mill, but decided against it. An end mill would have required multiple passes, and that would have taken more time than the simple fixture I made with 20 minutes of work. This way the rigidity issue, and the possibility of broken end mills was eliminated. One pass was all that was required, with zero chance of making an over size key way.






227) Below is a picture shot after a key way was cut. Once the fixture was adjusted and checked with indicators it became a very simple and repeatable method of producing identical key ways on all the crank shafts. 






228) With all the machine work finished up, the crank shaft assemblies are ready for a final d-burring, and a little sanding.






-MB


----------



## Deanofid

It's an impressive sight, five cranks in a row, Rick. They look great. Very nice work!
I've never invested in a broaching set. I take it from your writing that you like it.
Where did you buy this particular set?

As always, thanks for the update and pics.

Dean


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Rick---All these years in the business, and I never really know how a manual broach worked. You have cleared that up for me. Great work!!!---Carry on.---brian


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> It's an impressive sight, five cranks in a row, Rick. They look great. Very nice work!
> I've never invested in a broaching set. I take it from your writing that you like it.
> Where did you buy this particular set?
> 
> As always, thanks for the update and pics.
> 
> Dean



Thanks Dean. Getting all five done accurately was a big concern for me. As we all know the first time is always the hardest. Buying a quality set of broaches for occasional use is indeed a big investment. I searched around and found the set sale priced at Amazon.com. And yes, I'm very happy with the quality of the DuMont Minute Man set, its was well worth the price.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Thanks Rick---All these years in the business, and I never really know how a manual broach worked. You have cleared that up for me. Great work!!!---Carry on.---brian



Brian, Theirs not all that much to it. I just applied a little common sense and did it. Below is a link to what looks like good information. I should have looked for it prior to my first attempt.

I highly recommend to every one that's not an expert, reading or book marking this page is real a good idea. 

"I took a shot in the dark, and hit the mark." -MB :big:

http://its.fvtc.edu/MachShop3/broach/BroachingIS.htm

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#229 In today's post I will show the start of what will become the two heads for the horizontal and vertical 'F-head' versions. I racked my brain for days trying to figure out how to go about making these seemingly simple parts. Today I decided I had enough of the confusion and started punching holes and making decisions as I went along.

I used my band saw to cut four rectangular pieces of aluminum. I know! its hard to believe how smooth the cuts turned out. I blame the sharp blade and the cutting fluid I applied to the blade before each cut. 






#230 I milled the blocks very carefully and ended up with minus .000" x plus .001" or less! A good day in front of the mill. The recent tramming makes a big difference. I no-longer push on the mill's head to try and compensate for its north by northwest lean. It may be funny...but its true.






#231 Below I'm drilling and taping the two 6-32 blind holes in what will be the bottom, on the lower half of the 2 piece cylinder head. The bolts that hold the lower half of the head and the cylinder together come up through the frames top plate. Yes its very confusing, and I'm still not sure if I did every thing correctly. :shrug:






#232 Here I'm drilling the four clearance holes through the upper half of a cylinder head. The same 4 hole bolt circle will be drilled blind and threaded on the top of the lower head.






#233 I test fitted an upper half of a head to a lower half and every thing lined up perfectly. I'm amazed too.






#234 The reamed hole being added in the picture below is for the valves and guides on both the upper and lower halves of the head. This hole along with the same size hole in the center of the 4 bolt pattern will be used to secure the head halves for subsequent machining operations. These parts and procedures were starting to become more and more complicated as I went along.






#235 I decided to drill and ream the exhaust port holes while the upper halves of both heads were still rectangular. I felt it would easier to get as much drilling as possible out of the way.






#236 In the picture below I'm drilling and reaming the intake ports, Not the exhaust ports! I got confused and miss-marked the pieces with a sharpie pen. I put the intake ports on opposite sides of the upper halves of the heads. This will give me a choice of carburetor location on the horizontal version, and I'll use the remaining upper head the vertical version since it wont matter which side the carburetor is on.






#237 I started on a fixture block by drilling 2 through clearance holes for 6-32 screws, I'm using the same 2 bolt pattern used on the bottom of the lower half of the head. This way I can bolt the head onto the fixture from underneath.






#238 A hole central to the 4 bolt pattern was drilled and taped 10-24 in the fixture block. It will be used to bolt all 4 halves of the heads down for milling the tapered profile.






#239 The second threaded hole for bolting down the head halves, was determined by using the eye-ball method. The plans do not provide enough information to use any method other than a guess were a scribed line should be. I lined up on the scribed line and lightly locked the workpiece down with one bolt. While moving the table back forth I adjusted the work piece till the pointer tracked along the line. With it lined up, I locked the bolt down tight.






#240 I used the cone end of an edge finder to locate the quill position for drilling and tapping the second hold down bolt. These F-heads are turning into a pot-luck-smorgasbord!






#241 I bolted a head down and the line-up looks good to me. If the angles are off a tiny bit, they will never be noticed since there is no point of reference, and the plans don't give a dimension or angle.






#242 Here I'm adding the threaded 4 bolt head pattern to the fixture. The upper head halves have through holes that will allow the upper heads to machined from the top and bottom.






#243 Below is the parting shot of today's shop adventure. It was a very tedious day, and I'm still not sure if I got everything right. ???






-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#244 With the fixture finished, and the upper and lower halves for the F-head mostly finished, the next step was to profile them. Using the two offset mounting points on the fixture the heads were bolted on for the angled cut. After one side was cut with an end mill the piece was flipped over and the second side was cut. This was done on all four of the halves that will make up two head assemblies.






#245 All four head-halves are ready for the next steps.






#246 I used my simple manual method to index the head assemblies in the milling vise to produce the radius. In a previous post I added 3/16" holes at the spark plug and valve locations to all four halves of the head assemblies. A flush pin going through both valve locations adds stability, and a protruding pin at the spark plug location is used as a support/pivot point on top of the vise. 

Milling a pinned together pair of upper and lower halves saves some time, and assures a matching profile on the assembled heads. This is a very time consuming method with plenty of opening and closing the vise, and hand cranking along the Y-axis. You may end up with sore arms the next day, like I did.

Below is a picture of the first of the many incremental cuts it will take to create the .750" radius.






#247 Below is a shot of the last cut needed to create half of the the radius. This took about an hour, only three more to go! Someone pass me the tube of Bengay Ultra with pain relief! I know, quite complaining.






#248 I used a center cutting 3/4" end mill as a first step in creating the bored hole in the lower half of the head for the cylinder. A S/D drill would have worked equally well since a pilot hole was already in place. Its the hole that was used as the pivot point for profiling the radius.

This is the lower-half of the head assembly. It bolted down on the fixture from the bottom up using its 2X 6-32 mounting points






#249 I finished the bore to dimension using a small boring head. Nothing magical or complicated in this machining process.






#250 With the upper half bolted to the fixture up side down I machined out the combustion chamber. The first step was a plunge cut using a 5/8" end mill centered on the pivot/plug point, followed by cutting a trough to the center-line of the second pivot/valve point using a 3/8" end mill.






#251 In the picture below the upper head half was flipped over and bolted down top side up, drilled, tapped 1/4-32, and spot faced for the spark plug.






#252 I managed to finish up with filing,sanding, and test fitting of one head assembly for today's post. I'll finish up the other one latter on or tommorow.






My arms are still a little sore. :big:

-MB


----------



## gbritnell

Very nice work Rick. Now it makes more sense to what you were trying to explain to me.
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Very nice work Rick. Now it makes more sense to what you were trying to explain to me.
> George



Thanks for the compliment George.

I know that I'm not real good at explanations. Most people just smile and nod. 

Half the time I get myself so confused, that even I don't understand! Rof}

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#253 Unfortunately I have just one picture for today's post. Yesterday I finished up with 4 hours of fileing and sanding the two F-Head assemblies. Today I filed all 20 of the frame plates. I started at 10:00 am and finished at 7:00 pm. These parts are much larger than what I'm used to, and took much longer than I would have imagined.

The yellow piece of chalk sitting on the file was 2" long when I started this morning. oh:






-MB


----------



## 1hand

MB

When you did your crank build up's, did you use anything other than the 609 loctite and pins?

Like an activator or anything?

And, would parkerizing the crankwebs before assembly, cause a problem with the loctite?

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

1hand  said:
			
		

> MB
> 
> When you did your crank build up's, did you use anything other than the 609 loctite and pins?
> 
> Like an activator or anything?
> 
> And, would parkerizing the crankwebs before assembly, cause a problem with the loctite?
> 
> Matt



Hi Matt. Just the 609, and I added the pins later. You need the accelerator/activator with aluminum on aluminum and stainless on stainless or the two together. Add brass or steel to either one and you don't need it. I never tried Parkerizing first so I can't say for sure.

-MB


----------



## 1hand

Thanks buddy!

I'm going to try the parking first, and will let ya know how it goes.

BTW....My Packers are going to the Dance!!!

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

#254 today I finished up sanding all of the aluminum plates. I added a clevis to the push rods which made it necessary to partially assemble one of the engines to get a measurement for the push rods. 








#255 I took a few pictures to show how an engine looks at this point. There are still plenty of parts to make.






#256 I wanted to show how the plates look before I paint them. I don't use paint to conceal my work.






#257 I'll be using my traditional favorite green on at least one engine. I call it 'trout green'. Rof} Rof}






-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Beautifull work. I am living vicariously through you and Tel now.---Brian


----------



## cfellows

You know, MB, that is just lovely work. Not much else to say...

Chuck

Edit: Why do you guys put mufflers on these things? Don't you want a lot of noise???


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Wow...wow...and wow!
That is looking awesome.
Really fine work.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian, Chuck, Zee, and Pat. Thanks for visiting my thread, and for your wonderful compliments.

Brian, take a well deserved break, and live vicariously

Chuck, I added the mufflers just for looks, I wasn't thinking that they would actually 'muffle' the sound. The muffleres can be removed leaving a louder 'strait pipe'.

Zee, wow it sounds like you really like my project.

Pat, thanks, I still have quite a few big hurdles ahead.


----------



## hopeless

Looking just the bees knees MB. I am struggling just to do the few bits so far but you make it look soooo easy.
just loving the explainations and pics
Pete


----------



## Metal Butcher

hopeless  said:
			
		

> Looking just the bees knees MB. I am struggling just to do the few bits so far but you make it look soooo easy.
> just loving the explainations and pics
> Pete



Hi hopeless. Thanks for the compliment. When I look at the pictures of parts that others have made it does look easy in a lot of cases. When I look at parts that I made a while ago they also look easy. It didn't look that way before and during the process of making the part.

For me the difficulty in making a part lies in coming up with the step by step approach to the machining, and this can involve designing and making a fixture, or coming up with a set-up to accurately machine a part.

And when a part is all finished up I usually think, wow that was easy! Some times thinking about it is more work than actually doing it.

The best approach is to focus on making one part at a time. Avoid thinking about how your going to make the next part, it just interferes with your focus and slows down the progress.

-MB


----------



## Deanofid

Things sure are looking good, Rick. You've done a lot of work to get to this point, that's
for sure. It really shows in your last pics of the assembly.

It always look easy when someone else does it!  ;D


----------



## Metal Butcher

Thanks Dean!

Yes it does. ;D

-MB


----------



## 1hand

Really going to be a sight when their all done popping away like corn in the kettle..... scratch.gif..Now I'm hungry!

Nice job !

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

Thanks Matt.

Don't eat so late. It'll keep you from getting a good nights rest. :big:


----------



## Metal Butcher

#258 Well, I'm still working on solving some of the numerous but minor issues. With the push rods finished for the water cooled version, and the two air cooled versions, I turned my attention to making the stop block that engages with the lock out lever. The plans call for a block of unknown dimensions to be soldered on to the push rod. I couldn't see myself getting its size and location right, so I decided it might be wise to make a block that could be adjusted along the push rod and removed for milling if its needed. The block can also be locked out of the way to run the engine in four stroke mode. This feature will come in handy during the initial run in and adjustments.

Below is a picture of the adjustable blocks that I made. I think these will better than blocks soldered on. I tried the flat spring that pushes on the lock out lever and it works well. I feared that it might collapse under compression since its only .005 thick. I'll have to wait to find out if it provides enough pressure.






#259 I did a temporary partial assembly of the vertical F-Head version to get a measurement for the push rod, see how well the parts fit up, and also to check the gear mesh. Every thing is looking good so far as the fits go.

There is some bad news. It doesn't look like the all the extra parts I made for the hit/miss mechanism will fit and work on the two F-Head versions. Did I miss a notation about this on the plans? 







#260 Close-up of the intake valve assembly, with carburetor and exhaust in place.






#261 The exhaust valve assembly in place, along with the push rod and its guide block






-MB


----------



## kcmillin

Looking Good MB!

You got a great finish on all those parts. Very Nice.

Kel


----------



## tel

Lookin' _real_ good, in fact. Very tidy work!


----------



## krv3000

HI that's one Peace of brill work :bow:


----------



## Troutsqueezer

I just caught the "trout green" remark MB. ;D I have to say I'm honored! My only request is that you mention that fact on the plaques that you make for your engines.

I sure am glad you take nice pictures. I'm ready to start back on my Upshur this weekend so I may have a few questions popping up. 

I think you may have reinvigorated interest in Upshur's plans. His sister should cut you in on some of the profit, although at that price I'm sure its not exactly a gold mine for her. 

Outstanding work, BTW. 

-Trout


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Kel, Tel, krv3000, and Trout. Thanks for taking an interest in my humble project, and for your complimentary remarks. I'll do my very best to avoid disappointing you!



			
				Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> I just caught the "trout green" remark MB. ;D I have to say I'm honored! My only request is that you mention that fact on the plaques that you make for your engines.
> 
> I sure am glad you take nice pictures. I'm ready to start back on my Upshur this weekend so I may have a few questions popping up.
> 
> I think you may have reinvigorated interest in Upshur's plans. His sister should cut you in on some of the profit, although at that price I'm sure its not exactly a gold mine for her.
> 
> Outstanding work, BTW.
> 
> -Trout



I thought you might enjoy my "Trout Green" remark! ;D

Plaques? I'll already put that idea on my round-tuit list of things to make. You know, you just gave me an idea, adding a 'builder's plaque' or decal would add a nice finishing touch to a project. I saw a post some where about printing decals using your home computer. If I could just remember....

Feel free to ask any questions that you may have and I'll be more than happy to help out. I dropped you a few subtle hints hoping to inspire, and I'm glad to hear that your ready to move forward with your build. 

Note to self: I need to contact Helen and request a 1% commission on each set of plans sold if the order is accompanied with a notation saying 'MB sent me'. However I'm very negotiable on the percentage, but if the one percent was accepted than I would be looking at getting 'maybe' 13 cents in a good year? Rof}

-MB


----------



## jim hay

Hi MB

      I will try to upload the pics we talked about , concerning the governor latch out. have a good one  Jim


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Rick---Those adjustable blocks are a great idea. I had actually designed something similar on my Kerzel, because its a real bear to get everything positioned just right for the hit and miss effect. Unfortunately, on the kerzel there is simply no EASY way of making one adjustable. I ended up filing a bit off the step in the lever, then realizing I'd filed off too much and had to silver solder the step back up again. I went through that bit of foolishness about 4 times before I found its "sweet spot".----Brian


----------



## Metal Butcher

jim hay  said:
			
		

> Hi MB
> I will try to upload the pics we talked about , concerning the governor latch out. have a good one  Jim



Jim your engine looks great! :bow:

Thanks for posting the great close-up picture. As you know the plans don't show a way to build the F-Head as a hit-miss engine. Your picture shows how you overcame the normal rotation of push rod. The rotation would make it impossible to use a solder on, or set screwed stop block. 

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Rick---Those adjustable blocks are a great idea. I had actually designed something similar on my Kerzel, because its a real bear to get everything positioned just right for the hit and miss effect. Unfortunately, on the kerzel there is simply no EASY way of making one adjustable. I ended up filing a bit off the step in the lever, then realizing I'd filed off too much and had to silver solder the step back up again. I went through that bit of foolishness about 4 times before I found its "sweet spot".----Brian



Thanks Brian. The adjustable stop blocks I designed will only work on the versions that use a non rotating push rod. They are kept from from rotating by using a locking clevis at the rocker arm pivot point.

On the F-Head versions the clevis,and the lock out arm shown in the plan set won't fit.

It will take a little redesigning to adapt the governor parts needed to make the F-Head verstions work as hit-n-miss engines.

The project seems to get more and more complicated as it progresses. 

-MB


----------



## ozzie46

Great work MB.

 I started 5 engines once. 3 got finished. Still need minor work on all of them so I guess really NOT finished. : : :

 Ron


----------



## Metal Butcher

ozzie46  said:
			
		

> Great work MB.
> 
> I started 5 engines once. 3 got finished. Still need minor work on all of them so I guess really NOT finished. : : :
> 
> Ron



Hi Ron. If they are a Upshur's, then its interesting to hear that you are also building 5 engines. What in the world is it that possessed us to build more than one engine at a time? Was it the picture of multiple builds on Hamiltons web site? Was it the plan set that offered too many variations? Was it a subconscious desire to put on an impressive show? Was it a decision driven by an insatiable need to impress our selves? :shrug:

Or are we just plain crazy! I'm leaning towards crazy, as far as I'm concerned! scratch.gif Rof} Rof}

-MB


----------



## ozzie46

No. Not Upshires. They are Bogs' Marine engine.

 As to the need to build multiples? Masochism comes to mind. :big: :big:

 I will do some more with them when I need to take a break from my Simplex build.

 Ron


----------



## Metal Butcher

#262 Hi guys. Yesterday I made all of the head gaskets using 1/16" Felpro rubber fiber material. The were cut out using gasket punches and an Exacto knife. The two mounting holes on each head were punched through using a drilled piece of scrap aluminum for support, and then the drill was reversed in the chuck and used punch press style. Its not the best way to treat a drill bit but it is a quick method that punches a clean hole. I save my dull clearance size drill bits for this purpose.

Today I worked on completing the installation of the valves and guides. To prevent damage to the small valve guides I made a simple fixture that would apply pressure on the shoulder of the guide rather than on its vulnerable drilled and reamed end. In addition to the press fit I coated the parts with #609 Loctite out of habit. If I were relying on the Loctite to hold them in, the use of #620 high temperature Loctite would be a better choice. 






#263 With the valve guides in place they become a precision guide for a valve seat cutter. This is the best method to cut a seat that is concentric and perpendicular with the bore, since its the very same bore that will guide the valve stem. What system could be more perfect. Now that I've tried this method I can say this is a very simple, easy, and fool proof way to go. All it took was about six light twists to cut a perfect seat. The valve stems fit so well that lapping seemed pointless. However, I did lap them with some Flitz metal polish, and a few light twists just to be sure. I cut the seats about .015" wide, and that's all I need. The arrows point to the finished valve seats.






#264 Below is a view of one of the 5 heads with the valve stems in place. I made the valve stems using brass for the heads and found out that the higher temperature of the exhaust valves might cause thermal shock loading to the brass. So To be on the safe side I made up new exhaust valve assemblies with steel heads. Since the intake valves will run at a lower temperature the brass heads should be fine.






#265 I took my time, and spent a very pleasant day assembling all of the the valves. It doesn't get better than this. I spent a great deal of time analyzing and worrying about this very critical area of I.C. engine building. The first time is always the hardest when dealing with the unknown.






#266 This is not even half of the parts for this project. I have more in a bench drawer and six boxes of parts and components scattered about the shop. Finding a particular part can be quite a challenge!






-MB


----------



## CherokeeJ

MB, 

I haven't worked with miniature IC engines before. Being a decades old diesel mechanic, the engines I'm familiar with weigh in a little heavier than these works of art. But if these little ones are anything like the big ones...

Can I suggest wider valve seats? You want a thick edge on the valve, a wide enough seat for good contact, and long enough dwell closed for the heat to transfer into the head, or the exhaust valves will burn. :'(

You're work is too beautiful to see that happen. Your work and your presentation are over the top. :bow:

Please get the heat out of those valves. I can't wait to hear these puppies spin up some RPM.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Cherokee---These engines are intended to be a very low revving engine running at a more or less constant speed. Conventional wisdom is that the narrower the valve seats are, the better. Since during the "Miss cycle" the exhaust valve remains open and fresh air is pulled in thru the intake and expelled out over the exhaust valve without any ignition occuring, these valves run very cool so don't depend on heat transfer thru the seat area to cool the valves.


----------



## CherokeeJ

Well, how about that? I like to learn something new every day. Thanks Brian. Tell the truth, I wasn't feeling too warm and fuzzy about the brass intake valve either, but if your running enough fresh air over the valves, the heat may not be a problem. Thm:


----------



## Metal Butcher

CherokeeJ, Thanks for taking an interest in my project, and for sharing you knowledge on how valves are cooled by heat transfer.

Brian, thanks for your reply (I was out doing some grocery shopping), I couldn't have explained it any better. 

Mmmmm, chocolate pie, my favorite!

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#267 I spent the last few days cleaning up overlooked marks and test fitting parts. I became disenchanted with all of the squeaky tight clearance holes that were drilled #35 and opened each one up with a #33 drill. Then I re-assembled all the parts and took everything apart again just to be sure I was happy. 

Two things became apparent. The first is that I will be taking them apart again to drill a threaded hole for attaching an adjustable mount for the hall sensors which is still in the planing stage. And the second is that I need to plan a little more carefully in the future to ovoid wasting two or three days getting nowhere! 

Below is a group shot of the five variations I'm building.






#268 Below is my modified version of the water cooled horizontal. I painted it my traditional color that I call 'Trout Green'.
I'm hoping this close-up will inspire one of our members who is working on his own version, in a secret shop some where on the west coast! 







#269 Getting closer and closer. But there is still a few parts and problems, to finish and solve. I remember way back when I looked over the plan set and thought "This is gonna be a piece of cake!" Live and learn. :big:






-MB


----------



## zeeprogrammer

That's a beautiful set of engines. Awesome.


----------



## nfk

Amazing work MB, you make it look so easy!

Norberto


----------



## gbritnell

Man, those engines look great Rick!! I definitely like the green. Sooner or later you're going to have to start on those flywheel castings.
George


----------



## 1hand

Drool Drool................ 

Them are awesome, I really like the oilers!

Matt


----------



## Metal Butcher

#270 For today's post I made the adjustable 1" carrier disc for the hall sensor, and the 1" carrier disc for the magnet that will rotate with the crank and trip the sensor. In the picture I'm cutting off one of the rotating discs that will carry a magnet.






#271 On the left are the blanks that will become the discs for the hall sensors, and on the right are the blanks that will become the carrier discs for the magnets.






#272 The first step on the sensor disc was to drill and ream a hole for a rod that will be used for fine adjustments. A temporary rod will be inserted and used to fixture the discs in the next machining steps.






#273 I made a simple fixture to locate and rotate the sensor disc to mill out a slot for a captive screw that will allow movement of the disc for adjustments while the engine is running. 






#274 The temporary rod is used to rotate the disc back and forth while the end mill is lowered slowly to a depth of the thickness of a cap screw head plus .020" for a .010 spring steel washer. The second step (not shown) was to use a smaller end mill and go all the way through for the threaded part of the cap screw.






#275 I used the same fixture with the aid of space blocks to center a shallow milled slot for the hall sensor. I milled it the thickness of the sensor plus .004" so that when its glued in place it will be just below the surface and out of harms way.






#276 I got lucky and a 5/32" end mill made a perfect width slot for the sensor. The sensors I'm using are HAL506UA-A from Symmetry Electronics, Corp.






#277 I made another simple fixture by drilling and tapping a hole for a cap screw that fit the bore of the carrier disc for the magnet. This made it easier to drill and ream all of the .125" holes for the .1245" cylindrical magnets.






#278 I tapped the hub on the magnet carrier disc for a 4-40 set screw. The location was not important so I offset it by 90* from the magnet to avoid fighting with the hex wrench during the initial adjustment since these are very powerfull little magnets. 






#279 The magnets I'm using on this project are cylindrical 1/8" x 1/8" D22-N52 from K&J Magnetics.






#280 This is the position the hall sensor will be mounted in. All of the engine side frames will have to come off to drill and tap for the mounting/adjusting screws.






#281 The magnet carrier is being installed to give a better idea of how the system will go together and look.






#282 Here's another view of my set up. The gap between the discs will be set at about .030". I might just machine up some .030" spacers to eliminate the spacing issue during the initial set up.






-MB


----------



## doc1955

I just now am catching up on this thread and I am at a loss words just! Simply beautiful! To do a multi build of different engines I'm just amazed. I don't know how I've been missing this thread. I did fire off an e-mail to try and get a set of drawings Thanks for the info. Keep up the good work you are doing some dazzling work! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## DaveRC

MB, your work is inspirational, just amazing..... :bow:

Strange that in the last few days I have been thinking about mounting the hall effect device and it's magnet and came up with the few ideas, but what you have just done is perfect and I am sure my Upsher will have something very similar... ;D

Dave


----------



## Metal Butcher

doc1955  said:
			
		

> I just now am catching up on this thread and I am at a loss words just! Simply beautiful! To do a multi build of different engines I'm just amazed. I don't know how I've been missing this thread. I did fire off an e-mail to try and get a set of drawings Thanks for the info. Keep up the good work you are doing some dazzling work! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:



Thanks or the compliment doc! With out an audience its just practice. Knowing that my project is being followed and watched motivates me to give my best performance.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

DaveRC  said:
			
		

> MB, your work is inspirational, just amazing..... :bow:
> 
> Strange that in the last few days I have been thinking about mounting the hall effect device and it's magnet and came up with the few ideas, but what you have just done is perfect and I am sure my Upsher will have something very similar... ;D
> 
> Dave



Hi Dave. Thanks for the compliment. I tossed ideas around for quite a while before coming up with this simple solution. I used a 3/16" disc for the sensor mount to have enough thickness to countersink the mounting screw. A 4-40 barley fits between the bore and the outer diameter, so you might consider using a smaller 2-56 screw or using a larger disc like 1-1/8 or 1-1/4.

The magnet disc is 1/8" thick at the major diameter to accommodate the magnet, and the hub width is .150" to allow plenty of room for a 4-40 set screw.

The Neodymium -52 grade magnets are slightly attracted to the brass, I don't know if this matters, but you might want to look into it, or consider using aluminum instead if this is any thing to be concerned about.

-MB


----------



## DaveRC

Hi MB,

Thanks for the info... I did ponder for a while about what material to use, I have reservations about using aluminium as this is has some weird magnetic properties when spinning and was not sure how that would affect the sensor. I have some white Delrin I may use, If made carefully (meaning neat) I don't think this should look out of place.

Dave


----------



## doc1955

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Thanks or the compliment doc! With out an audience its just practice. Knowing that my project is being followed and watched motivates me to give my best performance.
> 
> -MB


Boy do I know that feeling! 

Now that I have found this thread I will now be watching. My next build I think I'm going to do away with the points and go with a set like you are doing. 
You are doing some mighty fine work! :bow:


----------



## rudydubya

Really enjoying following along, MB. Beautiful and interesting work, as usual. What kind of ignition system will you be using with the Hall switches, and will you be locking out every other spark somehow, or firing each revolution? Sorry if you've already addressed that and I overlooked it.

Regards,
Rudy


----------



## Metal Butcher

rudydubya  said:
			
		

> Really enjoying following along, MB. Beautiful and interesting work, as usual. What kind of ignition system will you be using with the Hall switches, and will you be locking out every other spark somehow, or firing each revolution? Sorry if you've already addressed that and I overlooked it.
> 
> Regards,
> Rudy



Hi Rudy. I haven't covered any details about the ignition system on my thread yet. I ordered a CDI system from S/S Machine and Engineering. And I don't know if the waste spark can be locked-out on mine or not. Or if I need to.

I ordered the 'Basic single spark CDI ignition system' for $55. For a single build the 'Complete' system for $105 may be your best bet. I opted to buy separate components from different sources like the magnets, hall sensors, etc, since I need to wire up 5 separate engines to run 'one at a time' using just one ignition. A sort of cost effective plug-and- play system using one CDI.

http://www.cncengines.com/ic.html

-MB


----------



## rudydubya

Thanks MB. I bought a CDI system from S/S late last year, installed it and am pleased with the performance and small size. Nice good spark too. I installed the magnet in the cam gear and stuck the Hall sensor on the end of a plastic arm screwed to the side of the frame. It's OK that way, but I have no practical way of adjusting the timing when it's running, and setting it when the engine is stopped is trial and error. I like the way you're setting yours up. Since I just zapped my Hall sensor (a not-so-rare moment of idiocy on my part) and will have to replace the sensor anyway, looks like a great option.

Rudy


----------



## Deanofid

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Knowing that my project is being followed and watched motivates me to give my best performance.
> -MB



Some of us would do our best even if no one ever saw it. I reckon you to be one of those guys, Rick.
These all look great! I mean, just saying the word "these" when referring to them is something. Five
at once, and each of them looks fantastic.

Dean


----------



## Metal Butcher

DaveRC  said:
			
		

> Hi MB,
> 
> Thanks for the info... I did ponder for a while about what material to use, I have reservations about using aluminium as this is has some weird magnetic properties when spinning and was not sure how that would affect the sensor. I have some white Delrin I may use, If made carefully (meaning neat) I don't think this should look out of place.
> Dave



Hi Dave.

With your ability to do first class anodizing, the use of aluminum for your sensor mount and disc to carry the magnet opens up a lot of interesting possibilities. As we all know the sensors require a strong magnet to pass over them in a close proximity, so I don't think that an aluminum disc should cause any problem. Although I never knew that spinning Aluminum can create a magnetic field. I'd like to hear more on this subject. I was going to use aluminum myself, but decided that brass would add a nice touch.

The use of Delrin (Acetal) would look just fine. You would need to find a way to mount the sensor and magnet. Adhesives don't seem to stick to it very well, and the sensors (Hall) and magnets (neodymium) are rather delicate and might not hold up to a press fit installation. I'll be installing my sensors with a small drop of a super glue. And the slip fit magnets will be installed with Loctite. Any one will do.

-MB


----------



## rudydubya

MB, according to an Allegro applications note, _"Cyanoacrylate ( "super glue" ) is not a good choice for gluing Hall-effect devices because it has a high rate of shrinkage when it cures. If the glue is applied to only one side of the device, this shrinkage can bend the device and cause severe stress. These glues also tend to be biodegradable and can dissipate in many common environments..."_ http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/hall-subassemblies/ I think that's why Mr. Sholl at S/S doesn't recommend it either. http://www.cncengines.com/instruction%20sheet.pdf

Rudy


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Hey, did I miss the part where you made the oilers? Don't make me go back through all those posts to find it, MB. ;D

I like the green one the best. :big:

I've been researching gear cutting lately and working on my flywheels in my secret shop. Both time consuming efforts. I spent twenty minutes trying to figure out exactly what "involuted" means. 

-T


----------



## Metal Butcher

rudydubya  said:
			
		

> MB, according to an Allegro applications note, _"Cyanoacrylate ( "super glue" ) is not a good choice for gluing Hall-effect devices because it has a high rate of shrinkage when it cures. If the glue is applied to only one side of the device, this shrinkage can bend the device and cause severe stress. These glues also tend to be biodegradable and can dissipate in many common environments..."_ http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/hall-subassemblies/ I think that's why Mr. Sholl at S/S doesn't recommend it either. http://www.cncengines.com/instruction%20sheet.pdf
> 
> Rudy



Wow Rudy thanks for checking in on my thread and watching my back! Karma point for you!

Super glue seemed to be a quick and easy way to mount the sensors. I'll have to come up with an alternative adhesive. Maybe clear 100% silicone, or a two part epoxy would work. 

Any ideas, any one?

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> Hey, did I miss the part where you made the oilers? Don't make me go back through all those posts to find it, MB. ;D
> 
> I like the green one the best. :big:
> 
> I've been researching gear cutting lately and working on my flywheels in my secret shop. Both time consuming efforts. I spent twenty minutes trying to figure out exactly what "involuted" means.
> 
> -T



And The Trout emerges from his lair to pay a visit! I'm honored by your presence! How are you doing? What are you doing? Are you doing anything? Are you going to do anything?:shrug:

You missed my oilers? Shame on you! Of course you like the color! I kept my promise and painted one green! Remember? Thm:

Involuted....I know the definition!! ..."To return to a normal or former condition"- The Free Dictionary-by Farlex. scratch.gif

Now that we know what it means... were waiting... stickpoke

-MB


----------



## stevehuckss396

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Any ideas, any one?



I use Super glue, the gel version. I know what was said but I have put in more than one this way and they all have worked well. The gel does cure slower so maybe it wont cause problems. I think the working time is 30 seconds or so, cant remember. Once they are stuck, they stay that way.


----------



## Metal Butcher

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I use Super glue, the gel version. I know what was said but I have put in more than one this way and they all have worked well. The gel does cure slower so maybe it wont cause problems. I think the working time is 30 seconds or so, cant remember. Once they are stuck, they stay that way.



HI Steve, that's interesting. Maybe the gel has a lower shrink rate? Or maybe the way you set yours in the glue it goes all the way around the sensor?

Are you using the same style sensor that I have?

-MB


----------



## stevehuckss396

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Are you using the same style sensor that I have?



Looks to be.


----------



## metalmad

Hi MB
I just gotta say mate
I love your work 
Pete


----------



## rudydubya

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Super glue seemed to be a quick and easy way to mount the sensors. I'll have to come up with an alternative adhesive. Maybe clear 100% silicone, or a two part epoxy would work.
> 
> Any ideas, any one?
> 
> -MB



MB, Steve's experience shows that superglue can be used successfully, I never doubted that, just knew it wasn't recommended. I like silicone for an adhesive, easy to apply and remove if need be. But when I can get around to replacing my blown sensor, I think I'll try epoxy applied where both the chip and the three leads going into it are immobilized, so an accidental tug on the leads from the connecting wires when I'm hooking things up or setting the timing won't stress the chip. Just a thought.

Regards,
Rudy


----------



## Metal Butcher

rudydubya  said:
			
		

> MB, Steve's experience shows that superglue can be used successfully, I never doubted that, just knew it wasn't recommended. I like silicone for an adhesive, easy to apply and remove if need be. But when I can get around to replacing my blown sensor, I think I'll try epoxy applied where both the chip and the three leads going into it are immobilized, so an accidental tug on the leads from the connecting wires when I'm hooking things up or setting the timing won't stress the chip. Just a thought.
> 
> Regards,
> Rudy



Hi Rudy. I agree with what your saying. I'm sure that many sensors have been super glue mounted with trouble free results. The use of another adhesive may not be necessary, but it is something to consider and another choice.

The stressing issue is something that crossed my mind when I test fitted the sensor. With the chip glued in place and the prongs coming out of the chip covered with shrink tubing, any movement at all will create a stress point at the intersection of the prongs and the bottom of the sensor. One way to address this would be to shorten the long prongs coming out of the chip to reduce the stress. And another way would be to make the adjustable sensor disc shaped like a (much shorter) house key. This way the length of the milled area for the sensor and leads would be longer, and any movement would be at the wires, shifting the stress point (flexing point) away from the chip and its prongs .

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#283 I had a minor set back that is the subject of the first part of today's post, and a concern about the mounting method for the Hall sensor that I address in the second part of today's post.

After not being able to find the appropriate size spring washers for the adjustable sensor carrier, I made my own out of spring steel. When I tried to add the bend (curvature) the first one broke. I managed the bend on the second one but it proved to be useless. The adjustment screw wouldn't work. It would either lock the disc in position, or the disc was to loose. 

I changed my plan and decided to try making a washer from Delrin (Acetal) to see if it might work. I couldn't use a cap screw since the milled step in the slot was only .020 deeper then the thickness of the head on the screw. A button head screw would allow the washer to be more than .050" thick to give the needed compression. I had to reduce the head diameter to fit the slot that was sized for a cap screw. After making the Delrin washer I tried the idea out and found that it worked well. I had good control over the amount of restriction I could apply to the sensor disc. 







#284 To part off the rather small and thin Delrin washers I used a Razor blade as a cut-off tool. A small diameter rod mounted in the tail stock chuck was used to catch the washers as they were parted off. I used a slightly smaller diameter rod and watched my in-feed by going in to a pre-determined setting on my dial indicator to avoid running into the rod with my cutter. Sure beats bending over to pick one up off the floor. 

In the picture bellow you can see the Delrin washer sticking out from under the button head screw.






#285 Below I'm drilling and tapping one of the five frame plates. Each plate was set-up individually, and I double check the location by using a .125" rod just to be sure. Wrecking a frame plate at this stage of the project would have been too much to bear.






#286 I decided to try out my idea of using a spacer to gap the magnet away from the sensor. This will eliminate fiddling with the air gap space while adjusting the magnets position relative to the crank shaft.

I also made up the adjustment rods using drill rod with a brass barrel style end. I decided not to use knurling since its not needed and its absence affords a clean and simple look. When the flywheels are added to the engines, the rather long appearance of the adjustment rods will disappear.






#287 I became increasingly concerned with the possibility of the Hall sensors becoming damaged by flexing-pressure applied to their pins during adjustments and handling. I mentioned this concern and solution in a previous reply on this thread. I didn't want to make up new discs, so I came up with a modification to achieve the same result by making the discs a build up of two parts.

I milled up some brass stock with a wider and deeper grove to accommodate insulated wires. The wires will be fixed in position with an appropriate potting compound such as silicone or epoxy. This will help eliminate the possibility of sensor damage. 






#288 I used the fixture that I made previously for the mill work on the sensor disc, as a soldering fixture. Sorry that the picture came out blurred, but hopefully you can see how it was used.






#289 Below you can see the completed modifications. Two are already installed plus the three on the cardboard. I placed the solder on the added pieces which caused them to get tinned on the inside. Controlling the flow of solder can be difficult at times. Fortunately once the sensor is set in potting compound this little solder mishap will be out of sight and out of mind.






-MB


----------



## gbritnell

Nice job Rick,
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

#290 for that last several days I have been working on ideas for the gas tank construction. I made parts from aluminum, brass, and copper. Most of the test parts were not satisfactory and ended up in my recycle bins. Below is a picture of the semi finished parts and a temporarily assembled tank to illustrate what I decided will be used. I would have preferred using an all brass construction, but it turned out that I didn't have the appropriate tubing on hand. Placing an order online would have been a bit cost prohibitive and would have added another delay to the project. 

The end caps need to be drilled for fuel line nipple. Since the plans do not show how to mount the tanks on the vertical versions, or how to mount the tanks on the horizontal versions I need to come up with some ideas of how to do this. 

It seems that soldering everything together will be tricky at best. I wonder if Loctite would hold up to gasoline, it would make the assembling trouble free. 







#291 The nipple for the gas cap was threaded 3/8-24, and the section that goes through the tank was reduced to 5/16". To make the transition to the copper pipe a 3/8" brass rod was drilled 5/16", a radius was added with an end mill, and the bushing was cut off on the lathe. Using the bushing makes the nipple self aligning and gives a neat look to the assembly. The gas caps were made by modifying the profile on standard drain caps found on household water shut off valves.

"Don't worry "Honey" I'll have the water back on in a few days." Rof}






#292 The assembly looks clean simple and neat. I'll try to keep it that way by applying the solder from the inside, and before I add the end caps.






When I go shopping tomorrow, I'll stop at Home Depot. :idea:

-MB


----------



## steamer

That's looking great MB!

I like the color!

Dave


----------



## rudydubya

Beautiful job on the tank, MB.

Rudy


----------



## Chaffe

absolutly amazing! attention to detail and quality of finish is spot on. I really wish i had the time to complete the one engine i am doing, never mind five! cant wait to see more progress!


----------



## Metal Butcher

#293 For today's post I'll show the progress made over the last three days. Due to the center line height of the needle valve on the carburetor, the tanks for the horizontal versions (3 engines) need to be mounted almost flat on a wooden mounting base. This limited my choices. Rather than strapping the tanks directly to the wood I decided to make brass mounting plates. Using a cradle with the tank strapped on would certainly look much better. But, I decided on simplicity to stay in line with the spirit of Hamilton's design.

Here I'm drilling the 4-40 clearance holes in the 1/8" thick mounting plates.






#294 To make the soldering easier I milled a line-up trough on the plates. The diameter of the tanks is 7/8", and the ball end mill I used is only 5/8". It should work to line up the assembly. I would have preferred to use the proper size end mill but I have to use what I have on hand and make it work.






#295 Below is a picture of a temporary assembly to see how the tanks will look. In addition to keeping the tanks low It will be necessary to make a base plate for all three horizontal versions to hike-up them up. Lately it seems that every time I make a part, it creates a need for another part.






#296 This is a picture of the clutter and confusion I have on my work bench. 






#297 Cutting the wood for bases is not my 'cup of tea'. Usually it chips out when cut and routed, or it ends up with burn marks. I got lucky this time around. The two, two-piece bases in the upper left corner are for the vertical versions. On the horizontal versions the center-line of the crank is 2" up from the base, and on the vertical versions it only 1-1/4". This means that the addition of a 3/4" sub-base is required due to the 3-1/2" fly wheel diameter. Using a slab of aluminum would be odd to say the least so I used 3/4" wood (oak) for the base and sub-base instead.

The three bases for the horizontal versions are Mahogony, Walnut, and Canary wood in a clockwise rotation.






#298 On the Upshur web site the one vertical version shows the fuel tank mounted to a head bolt with a single strap. To avoid the need to remove the fuel tank if the head assembly needs to come off, I decided to make a separate bracket. Again, to keep in line with the spirit of the simple design I made the appropriate mounting bracket. It bolts to the cylinder base with two 2-56 screws, and I added the same milled line-up trough to simplify the assembly.






#299 I found out the tank can only be mounted on one side of the air cooled vertical version, and that the exhaust pipe won't clear it. I need to add another part to the list. A fitting is needed to re-direct the exhaust pipe.






#300 "Oh my cheating ways!" I didn't want to take the head/cylinder assembly apart again, so I very carefully packed the bore with some paper towel and set it up in the mill to drill and tap for the 2-56 mounting screws. I took a bit of a risk and got away with it. I could have easily ended up with a major scratch or dent. 






#301 Last picture. Here's how the tank will sit on the vertical 'F-Head' version. No clearance issue with the exhaust on this version.






Over the next few days I need make three metal sub bases for the horizontal versions, come up with a solution for re-directing the exhaust on the air cooled vertical, and come up with an assembly plan for the tanks and brackets. And I also need to make a choice on a finish system I'll use on the wood bases. 

This project is far from over, and its turning out to be a little more complicated and time consuming than I originally thought. I always say "If it were easy it wouldn't be any fun!" ;D

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Rick---You are doing amazing work, and you have got to the point in your build where everybody has commented and now remain silent. I know, I reach that point in many of my builds where no one responds, and then I wonder if anybody is watching or if anybody cares. We all care very much, and we are all cheering you on. Keep the faith---your posts are really great, and we are all watching.----Brian


----------



## doc1955

Very very nice!
I see you a really good with wood tooooo! Me and wood just don't get along nice bases.


----------



## ozzie46

I second what Brian said. For me it reaches a point in builds of this caliber that you run out of words to say unless there is a specific question to ask. But rest assured we are still here, watching and soaking it up. 

  Ron


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Guys. Thanks for posting a concern on my behalf. It never crossed my mind that there might be a lack of interest in my project. I decided with my very first build thread shortly after joining HMEM, that If just one member is inspired, than any effort to post my progress and pictures would be worth while. 

Last year my projects were short, and I built 10 very simple engines (one every 2 weeks) in a 5 month period.

This year my project is taking a long time, much longer than I anticipated. I never expected anyone to keep posting over and over on the same build thread. I'm aware that there is a good amount of members still interested in my project that have already said what they wanted to say. My only real concern is a disappointing out come to the project.

Hang in there every one, I have more than a month of shop time left, and the end of my project is getting near!

-MB


----------



## doc1955

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Hang in there every one, I have more than a month of shop time left, and the end of my project is getting near!
> 
> -MB


And things are looking really GOOD! 
It will be a treat when you get them running!

N_I_C_E  W_O_R_K !!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Hi Guys. Thanks for posting a concern on my behalf. It never crossed my mind that there might be a lack of interest in my project.



With almost 14,000 views I have to believe that there are a few people taking a look. Most wont post because the folks before have said what they would have said, but we are watching!!


----------



## Deanofid

Fuel tanks look good, Rick. They go along with the nice work on the engines very well.
Surly this is your most ambitious project, and it's been one that I check often.


----------



## bearcar1

MB, .... simply.... MARVELOUS Thm:!

BC1
Jim


----------



## Metal Butcher

Thanks everyone for all your support and the uplifting comments! 

I just came up from a very productive but tiring day down in the shop, In plain English, I'm whipped!

I made the three aluminum bases that I felt would add to the overall look and stability of the horizontal models. They bolt to the original frame plates from underneath, and they will sit directly on the wood. Four corner bolts will be used to secure the added base plates to the wood bases. I think Hamilton tried to keep the engines as simple as possible by omitting this little unnecessary detain. I like the looks of the addition, and feel that it was a worth the extra effort. The most time consuming part of making the aluminum bases was of course the file work. It takes a lot of time to get all the surfaces smooth and flat, with slightly champhered, but crisp corners. 
I got "Honey's" expert opinion, and she said that without the added aluminum bases, the engines looked like they were missing something, and I have to agree.
I also managed to drill the holes and counter bore the wood bases from underneath for washers and nuts. The bases were to large for my milling vise and needed to be hand held for the drilling and milling operations. A bit of a nerve racking way to go, but it turned out well.

I'll include the bases in my next picture post early next week.

-MB


----------



## Foozer

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> I changed my plan and decided to try making a washer from Delrin (Acetal) to see if it might work.



Good idea, can see why the spring washer gave fits, didn't like the slot at all. 

Robert


----------



## Metal Butcher

Foozer  said:
			
		

> Good idea, can see why the spring washer gave fits, didn't like the slot at all.
> 
> Robert



That's correct Robert. The use of a spring washer in a stepped groove is destined to fail. Since the washers have a curvature, any rotational shift will drop the high sides of the spring washer down into the step. Once that happens it becomes loose and starts to scrape on the corner of the step. The thicker Delrin washer is flat, and it does not display any tendency to rotate, providing an adjustable grip with smooth movement.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#302 Over the last few days I have been applying coats of a wax free shellac sanding sealer to the wood bases. Each coat was sanded off before another was applied. The purpose of all the coats is to fill in and seal the grain. The finish will be three coats of Varathane Profesional semi-gloss. A few years back I found out a that wood must be sanded with the grain. In the picture below I show the 'block sanding' style I use with a Formica covered board to level the woods surface. The sides are done the same way. For the routed part of the edges I use a short piece of scrap metal wrapped with sand paper.






#303 In this picture you can see how the frame of the engine looks sitting directly on a wood base. Mounting the engine this way would leave the center-line of the carburetor needle to low for the fuel level at the top of the gas tank.






#304 In this picture I added an aluminum base to raise the carburetor up, and at the same time add a minor cosmetic detail to the engine's frame. The engine base was a detail that I felt was missing.






#305 I used an end mill to create a counter sink under the wood bases. This will conceal the nuts and washers that will go on the bolts, that will secure the engines and gas tanks on top of the wood bases.

My milling vise is too small to hold the bases so I had to eye ball the locations for the end milled areas. To make this easier I made a brass button to pencil mark the locations making the end mill line up a bit easier.






#306 Here's a base already milled out for the gas tank mounting bolts. I went .150" deep with a 3/8" end mill to allow plenty of clearance for a 4-40 nut and washer. The engine mounting holes and countersinks were done previously. For those I used a 1/2" end mill and went .200" deep for 6-32 nuts and washers.






#307 I started the assembly of the fuel tanks by soldering the gas cap nipples on first. I used small pieces of 60/40 soft solder placed on the inside of the tank, and applied the heat to the nipple from the out side. The solder is attracted to the heat and pulls through the joint using this method.

If you use this method with the intention of adding the end caps latter, its best to use a high temperature soft solder or a high temperature silver solder, for the first soldered on part to avoid melting the solder used on the nipple when you add the end caps. I didn't remember this, and one of the threaded nipples let loose and had to be re-soldered as a last step. The repair made a mess and created a wider spread of the visible solder joint. This can be seen in a picture further along in this post.

In the back ground one assembly is cooling down. I set the nipple over a stepped rod held in a vise to hold it up while I soldered it together.






#308 Using the same set up shown in the previous picture, I stood the vise on end to solder on the end cap with the fuel line nipple pressed in place. I used a snug fitting rod from underneath, to hold the end cap up and in place. After all the contact surfaces were fluxed I set small pillows of solder around the inside perimeter of the end cap and applied heat from the out side and all around till a hint of solder came through the joint.

I wrapped the assembly with aluminum wire before soldering as a safety precaution. The last thing you want is a hot piece of pipe landing in your lap!






#309 After good cooling the assembly was preped with sanding and flux, and installed with a 160 degrees rotation on the fixture rod. An end cap was prepped with flux and solder pillows, and then installed from underneath supported with a steel rod.






#310 Again the heat was applied just till the first hint of solder could be seen. With the soldering finished the tank is ready for the final clean up and finishing steps.






#311 The soldering of the five tanks is finished. It took the better part of the day with most of my time spent waiting for the cool downs.






#312 Here's how a tank looks after a little sand papering. I would love to copper plate these to hide the solder joints. Maybe by next time around, when I find the time to research this idea.






#313 The filler neck nipple shifted (melted) and had to be re-soldered on one on the left. 






-MB


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> It took the better part of the day with most of my time spent waiting for the cool downs.
> 
> -MB



I have this problem too, but its got nothing to do with machining. 

Nice looking tanks, Hombre....

-Trout


----------



## metalmad

they look great 
well, way better then great really ;D
keep up the pressure !!
Pete


----------



## hopeless

Boy you move fast. I love the way they are coming together and the pics so fools like me can see what we do wrong 
I am getting along nicely and use your thread to check out when I have a problem.
You are very good at describing what you do which I am not but I can follow plans ;D and with your help I have avoided some easy mistakes. I have taken pics of what has been done so far jus need to post them
Keep it up MB there are a lot of people reading this thead. :bow: :bow:
Pete


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

This effort is inspiring to us lesser mortals who have only recently started working with MW equipment - I am currently building only one (!) Upshur - the horizontal air-cooled and I've taken all your posts and put them into a PDF file as an instruction manual.

One question - it appears you've modified the side plates on this engine with an additional cut between the front plate and the crank holes. Was that for appearance only?

Best,
Mike


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Mike. Yes, I changed the side plates for a cosmetic preference. I lowered the area you mention along with the radius on the front plate. It was important to stay short (above) of the crank's center line, and the mounting hole for the cam gear.

#314 I finished cleaning up the five fuel tanks and attached them to tier bases with 2- part epoxy (JB-Weld). Soldering them to their bases would have probably ended with a disastrous result.

The wood bases are just about finished. I used three coats of sanding sealer, and three coats of satin polyurethane. The two bases for the vertical versions are made of two pieces of oak, a 3/4" block on top of a 1/2" base shown in picture below. With the finish on those already dry I glued one set together with carpenters glue and temporarily bolted them till the glue sets up. 24 hours should be sufficient to remove the threaded rods and use them to glue up the second pair. 







#315 I couldn't understand the drawing and description of the governor weights. It looks like the springs are supposed to be hooked over the ends of protruding 2-56 studs? I deviated from my understanding of the drawing.

The plan calls for the weights to be .250"dia x .312" long, threaded all the way through for a 2-56 stud to attach the two halves of the weights to the governor arms. I made the weights .250" x .375" threaded 2-56 half way, and reamed 3/32" from the opposite end. 

I made studs by cutting off the heads of 10x 2-56 x 1/2" long cap screws. The studs ended up about .440" long which is more thread than needed. I cut 3/32" pins .375" long and added a .020" x .020" groove on each one near the ends to hook the springs onto. The pins are Loctited halfway in with 3/16" showing. This is more than what appears to be 1/8" on the dimension-less drawing. The slightly longer pins eliminate any concern of the spring diameter.

Getting the springs is not going to be really easy! :wall: On the plan it says..."Small hook end springs (2)" oh: 






Two days worth of work, and only two pictures, sorry guys. scratch.gif

-MB


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

Thanks for the response - I agree your side plates look better and will likely follow suit. 

As one who is also 'enjoying' the wonderful weather in greater Cleveland (I'm in Munson Twp., Geauga County) I imagine you are looking forward to spring!

Best,
Mike


----------



## Metal Butcher

MikeA  said:
			
		

> Hello MB,
> 
> Thanks for the response - I agree your side plates look better and will likely follow suit.
> 
> As one who is also 'enjoying' the wonderful weather in greater Cleveland (I'm in Munson Twp., Geauga County) I imagine you are looking forward to spring!
> 
> Best,
> Mike



Mike, Spring can wait! It may sound strange, but I really love winter! Its nice and toasty in my basement shop. A great time to get involved with building model engines. If I want to see whats going on outside I can just open the garage door and take in the beauty of a freshly-fallen-foot of heavy snow, and wave to my neighbors as they slide down the street sideways on their way to work with joy in their eyes. I should be jealous! 

Yea! Hobbies are tough, retirement is tough, but somebody has to do it! ;D

-MB


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

I joined the retired club in December 2010 and have to admit I don't know when I ever found the time to work for a living - so many things to do! Not having a 40 mile commute each way this winter has been great, as well as not having to deal with the TSA and the airlines (used to average 100K airmiles every year for the last 25 years.) 

Yep, the biggest trek I have is to the mail box to find what new toys have arrived!

Best,
Mike


----------



## Deanofid

I love the base work you did, Rick. Very nice, and I think will accent your engines well.
I'll bet you can make your springs if you have trouble finding store bought ones. It's a pretty
easy thing for a guy like you. I have a write-up in the Tips section. If you can't find it, the
same article is on my webpage. 

I think the fuel tanks ended up looking great! 

Dean


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Dean! Thanks for the compliment on my wooden bases and fuel tanks, I'm glad that you like them. And thanks for reminding me about your excellent write up on making springs. It will come in very handy, since I have never made a spring to speak of.

I have some springs in a HF assortment that will fit temporarily to lock out the governor mechanism during the initial set up and trial runs.

After that, It's almost guaranteed that I'll need to custom make (and remake) springs till I get the governor to work just right.

-MB


----------



## tel

Yep MB, that will be a certaincy - well within your capacity tho, from what we've seen so far.


----------



## Metal Butcher

#316 I worked out the changes that would be needed to make the two F-Head versions as hit-n miss models. I did a great deal of work making all the governor parts, only to find that the lock out levers were too long and wouldn't work. The second problem was a block on the push rod to engage with the lever. On the water and air cooled versions the clevis attachment to the rocker arm prevent the rotation of the push rod, making an off center lock out block possible. Since there is no clevis or rocker arm on the F-Head, the push rod is free to rotate. To solve this dilemma I made a disc that is attached with a set screw to the push rod to engage with the lock out lever regardless of any rotation. 

I milled the profile for a shorter version lever and used a slitting saw to cut them off .0935" thick. 






#317 The first one is laying on the vise after the cut was finished. with all of the practice I had on this project I'm starting to get much faster and better at making parts using this method. 






#318 In the picture below and on the left, is a standard lever used on the water and air cooled versions both horizontal and vertical. On the right are the shorter versions I made today, for one horizontal and one vertical F-Head.






#319 Here's how the lever engages with the lock out block (disc). The disc is 3/8" in diameter by 1/8" thick. I drilled and tapped it for a 3-48 set screw. 






#320 It was time for me to make a decision on how to solve the problem, and the parts needed. The solution allows me to keep with my original plan of building five Hit-n-miss versions. 






-MB


----------



## hopeless

MB you never cease to amaze me. Nice job I will :bow: inyour presence if I ever meet you. Are you sure you're not from another planet?
A very clever method to that problem. 
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi MB
I thought I wanted a slitting saw 
after seeing this, I now know, I need one 
keep up the great work 
Pete


----------



## tel

;D David, at Ozmestore usually has a pretty good selection listed - reasonably priced and not-bad quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/75x2-0MM-x72Teeth-HSS-Slitting-Slotting-Saw-New-/380319762595?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item588cd308a3


----------



## Metal Butcher

hopeless  said:
			
		

> MB you never cease to amaze me. Nice job I will :bow: inyour presence if I ever meet you. Are you sure you're not from another planet?
> A very clever method to that problem.
> Pete



Thanks for the compliment Pete! . 

Yes I'm from another planet. On one of my threads last year I admitted that I was from the planet 'Melmac'. I relate to the sarcastic behavior of my friend 'Alf', he's a character! :big:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDW7-zgZ9Tc&feature=related[/ame]

When I work myself into a corner I get very creative. It's the fear of becoming accustomed to the corner that drives me.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

metalmad  said:
			
		

> Hi MB
> I thought I wanted a slitting saw
> after seeing this, I now know, I need one
> keep up the great work
> Pete



Hi Pete. Having a few sizes of slitting saws is a good idea, and they will come in handy. I favor a 1/16" saw for cutting off parts. All that's generally needed for small engine projects is a 1/16", 3/32", and a 1/8". I have a 1/2" strait shank slitting saw arbor, and also an R-8 arbor, I favor the R-8 for no particular reason.

-MB


----------



## arnoldb

:bow: Good going MB - I'm quietly following along.

 :big: Somehow I get the impression of you standing in the shop wearing a white overall with a hacksaw in one hand and scriber in the other - then uttering "hack"-"hack" sounds a couple of times and then timidly saying "Steel wool ball" afterward....

Arnold


----------



## Metal Butcher

arnoldb  said:
			
		

> :bow: Good going MB - I'm quietly following along.
> 
> :big: Somehow I get the impression of you standing in the shop wearing a white overall with a hacksaw in one hand and scriber in the other - then uttering "hack"-"hack" sounds a couple of times and then timidly saying "Steel wool ball" afterward....
> 
> Arnold



Arnold, that's correct, I spend a great deal of time muttering and...singing...dancing...and just talking to my self!

And I usually have some sort of tool in my hand.

But...I wear a purple denim shop apron.

oh: Rof}

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#321 I assembled all of the parts made so far. Below is a group picture of the five Upshur versions.






#322 The two vertical versions. The air cooled is in the back ground, and the F-Head is out front. 






#323 Below are the two horizontal versions. The air cooled is on the right, and the F-Head is on the left






#324 And the fifth version is water cooled. All five are now set up as hit-n-miss engines. The next step is to start assembling the ignition system, and to wire and mount the hall sensors.






-MB


----------



## Deanofid

You must have 40-50 engines by now, Rick. They start adding up fast when you do them two, three, or five at a time!  ;D
Everyone a beauty, (and good photography, too).


----------



## metalmad

imagine what the vidio is gunna look and sound like ;D
Pete


----------



## Metal Butcher

#325 For today's post I'll show how the pig tails with Futaba connectors are attached to the hall sensors, and mounted into the adjustable sensor carrier with epoxy.

I shortened the prongs on the Hall Sensors by cutting them down to 3/8". This will place the solder joints out side of the carrier allowing for a full support of the prongs inside the added block. The added solder on block was channeled out with an end mill in a previous post.







#326 I made a small aluminum combination heat sink and support fixture to minimize the danger of over-heating the sensor, and to hold it steady during the process of soldering on the wires. The hold down bar is .110" x .110" held down with 2x 0-80 cap screws.






#327 I had to criss-cross the red and black wires to make the proper connections on the hall sensor. I ordered and used 22 ga. wires with the connectors already attached. The wires turned out to be too thick for the close proximity of the prongs on the sensor. It was necessary to solder the center wire on top, and to solder on the outside wires from underneath to have enough clearance. After the soldering was complete I slide two short pieces of shrink tube over the out side solder joints and shrunk them with a lighter. The center solder joint bare and will be protected by the insulation on both side wires. 






#328 To finish up the assembly a larger and longer piece of shrink tube was slid into place and shrunk to complete the assembly. The shrink tubing should be on the wires prior to soldering. I learned this the hard way on the first one and had to un-solder the connections to get it in place and ready on the wires.






#329 I had previously made up an extra carrier for the sensor, and I also made up an extra sensor assembly in case a sensor fails. This will make the replacement quick and simple. In the picture below you can see one installed. I will need to cover the epoxy and prongs that are showing through with some thin brass shim stock, or some brass colored paint. 






#330 Here's how the assembly looks prior to adding the epoxy. The area around the prongs is wider and deeper than the area around the head of the sensor. This will all be filled with epoxy to encapsulate the prongs and prevent any bending that could lead to sensor failure.






#331 This last picture shows the second hall sensor assembly set in epoxy. I temporarily wired the ignition system to test the sensors and all 6 are firing a plug beautifully! I decided to stop at this point and take a break by posting my progress.






Fire in the hole! Rof} Rof}

-MB


----------



## rudydubya

Nicely done, MB. I like that combination heat sink and holder. Any special reason for the .110 width of the hold down bar?

Rudy


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

This has been a great addition to the build progress - I was just wondering how those Hall effect thingies were mounted and you show the entire series!

I'm collecting all your post on this to save as a pdf for my reference when I build the Upshur.

Best,
Mike


----------



## Metal Butcher

rudydubya  said:
			
		

> Nicely done, MB. I like that combination heat sink and holder. Any special reason for the .110 width of the hold down bar?
> 
> Rudy



Hi Rudy. The fixture was an eye-ball job based on the width of the 0-80 screw head. The dimensions are not critical, just use your own judgment. I measured the width of the hold down bar after machining and presented the information in case anyone wanted to make and use the fixture. I cut my prongs down to 3/8". With the dimension I presented the prongs could be cut much shorter if needed. I went down to the shop and took a few measurements, on my particular installation the bar could have been up to .230" wide, and It would have still allowed enough room to slide the shrink tubing up to the hold down bar. It's important to leave the sensor in the heat sink/fixture during the process of shrinking the tubing. Shrinking takes longer than the soldering, and there's much more time for the heat to migrate towards the head of the sensor and cause damage. 
I used a 45W pencil point soldering iron on the leads, and a disposable cigarette lighter for the shrinking.

-MB


----------



## coopertje

Hi Metal Butcher,

Just want to say wow, what a great and very well documented build you doing here :bow: :bow: :bow:

Regards Jeroen


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi, MikeA.

Hi, Jeroen.

Thanks For the compliment's. 

I'm heading back down to the shop.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#332 I finished mounting all of the Hall Sensors in epoxy on the adjustable Sensor Carriers, and mounted the assemblies on the engines. It became apparent that the wire harness needed to be restrained from shifting towards the flywheel while running the engine. I didn't want to drill any additional holes on the frame to secure the wires, so I turned my attention to making a bracket of some sort utilizing the existing screws on the frame. 

A formed bracket made from 1/16" wire under one of the screws would be a simple solution and worth trying.
The first one was too big. The second one was too small, and the third one broke. After starting on the fourth one I stopped. It was time to re-think a mounting bracket before wasting any more time on the bent wire idea!







#333 The best solution would be to machine up a bracket. It would have to be as small as possible, and mount under the existing screw towards the back of the frame plate, and also made of aluminum so it would blend in somewhat with the frame plate. After taking measurements, It became apparent that the two vertical versions would need slightly different brackets due to the different routed edge's on the wood bases. But, the three horizontal versions could all use the same bracket. I drew up my idea of how the brackets would look and machined them up.

The two on the left are for the two vertical versions. The bracket on the far left is for the square edge routed base, and the bracket on the right side of the pair has a longer pin since the routed edge is rounded over, and the wires could slip out from under the bracket.

The two on the right are for the three horizontal versions. A third one (not shown) was painted 'Trout Green' and was wet when I took these picture. Other than the paint, all three are identical.






#334 The engine in the back ground has the longer pin on the bracket to meet with the rounded over edge on the wood base. And the one in the front is one of three identical ones used on the horizontal versions.






#335 The engine in the picture below is the vertical version with a square routed edge on the wood base, and uses a bracket with a shorter pin.

Its hard to believe that these five simple brackets took five hours from conception to final installation!






#336 The Tygon fuel line I ordered has an I.D. of .113", and fits well on the .125" fuel tank and carburetor nipples. I wanted to be assured that the connections would be leak free since I'll be dealing with highly flammable gasoline. I tossed all sorts of ideas around before settling on a simple solution. By adding a single coil of spring with a slightly small I.D. than the O.D. of the tubing, it would compress the tubing slightly making for a much tighter connection.

I found the perfect size spring and cut off single loops. The loops are installed over the tubing prior to pressing it on the nipples. They add about .010" compression, making a very positive seal between the tubing and the nipples. 






#337 Here's how the 'hose clamps' look installed. Clean, simple, and effective. I like it! 






The florescent yellow color of the fuel line looks just as bright as it does in the picture. Its the right stuff, but...yuck! :rant:

-MB


----------



## nds213

MB,

These engines are very inspiring. I am currently working on my first engine (Elmer's #42) and am amazed at the pace that you are moving forward. The surface finish on your parts is excellent. What coating did you use on the copper section of your fuel tanks?

Please continue to post the detailed process pictures!

-Nathan


----------



## metalmad

Hi MB
That tube is a bit strong but nothing can detract from the class of your motors
A fan


----------



## Metal Butcher

nds213  said:
			
		

> MB,
> 
> These engines are very inspiring. I am currently working on my first engine (Elmer's #42) and am amazed at the pace that you are moving forward. The surface finish on your parts is excellent. What coating did you use on the copper section of your fuel tanks?
> 
> Please continue to post the detailed process pictures!
> 
> -Nathan



Thanks Nathan! 

I didn't use any coating on the fuel tanks, its a sanded surface that I polished lightly with Flitz metal polish. I usually leave a surface with a sand papered finish, or a machined finish to control the glare. If I want to slow down the tarnishing, I use a 'poly" type of paint sealant used on car finishes.

http://www.flitz.com/p-16-flitz-polish-paste.aspx

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1420358&clickid=prod_cs

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

metalmad  said:
			
		

> Hi MB
> That tube is a bit strong but nothing can detract from the class of your motors
> A fan



Thanks for the compliment, and I'm glad that your enjoying my thread!

If I can find a good 'clear' substitute for the yellow Tygon tubing it will only take me a few minutes per engine to change it out.

-MB


----------



## nds213

MB,

Is there a way that you could use a hard line from PM Research for the fuel line?

-Nathan


----------



## Deanofid

The wire clips and fuel clamps are nice, Rick. I never would have though of cutting up a spring for hose clamps. They look very clean.
If you would rather have a different color for the fuel line, an RC shop will have natural silicone line. It is not colored, looks kind of clear.


----------



## Metal Butcher

nds213  said:
			
		

> MB,
> 
> Is there a way that you could use a hard line from PM Research for the fuel line?
> 
> -Nathan



Hi Nathan. Using copper tubing is possible, and I have seen it done. However in my case it would be difficult since the carburators and fuel tanks are all finished up, and as drawn on the plans. 

I would rather use clear flexible fuel line for ease of assembly. And if I need to take a head off, disconnecting the fuel line is very easy. If I want to experiment with switching carburetors around, it would be difficult since each engine is slightly different with fuel line length and tank location.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> The wire clips and fuel clamps are nice, Rick. I never would have though of cutting up a spring for hose clamps. They look very clean.
> If you would rather have a different color for the fuel line, an RC shop will have natural silicone line. It is not colored, looks kind of clear.



Hi Dean. Thanks for the tip. I am going to a hobby shop tomorrow, and will take a look at what they have. The fittings on the carbs and fuel tanks are .125" O.D.. So I better bring a piece 1/8' rod allong for a test fit before buying.

-MB


----------



## GailInNM

Unfortunately silicon tubing is not compatable with gasoline. I swells up after a few hours of exposure.
Small engine repair shops usually have a clear that is compatable with gasoline and will sell you a foot or so.
Locally, I have bought clear in the chain saw section at Ace Hardware. They sell it by the foot. It does not swell, but gets hard after a few months of exposure to gasoline so has to be replaced if you take it often. It is only about 60 or 70 cents per foot, so not a big deal. They had three sizes when I was there last and the middle size is probably right for 1/8 inch barbs.
Gail in NM


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Gail, thanks for reminding me about the silicone in-compatibility with gasoline. I think the silicone works with air plane fuel though. I'm going to the hobby shop tomorrow anyway, so I'll ask just in-case they have a tubing that's compatible with gasoline.

I remember disusing this subject on a thread a while back...somewere... but just like my memory it's long lost. 

Tygon was the right stuff, that's why I bought it. Too bad its an ugly florescent yellow. Looks like a cheap fishing lure. Rof}

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#338 I made 5 simple aluminum brackets to hold the female EC3 connectors solidly to the under side of the bases. The brackets were attached with 2 wood screws. I snapped the head off of the second one and afterward pre-drilled for the screws with a small bit held in a pin chuck. Fortunately the was enough of the screw sticking out of the wood to get a good grip on it with a pair of pliers. The brackets are a tight fit with only .020" air space between the bottom of the brackets and the bench top. Thicker rubber feet on the four corner would have helped, but I couldn't find any. 






#339 The brackets were styled to match the rest of the build. This picture shows how a miss-matched part looks. It needs a coat of 'Trout Green' to make it blend in! 

The hard part will be to solder and assemble all of the E-flite EC3 connectors, and to rout and attach all the wires under the bases. After that the next step will be to assemble the battery powered remote ignition box. All these pesky little details take a lot of thought and time to work out and assemble.






-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#340 I spent the last few days assembling the E-flight connectors, and the wiring on the underside of the engines. All five are done with the exception of soldering on the spark plug clips. I only ordered one along with the basic CDI system to see if they would be satisfactory. and forgot all about ordering the rest. With luck my order should arrive in a few days.

I tacked the wires in place with a super glue jell. A fine bead of clear silicone will be added on both sides of each wire to make them more secure.






#341 Here's how an assembled connector looks. After the connector and wiring was in place satisfactorily, I removed the connector bracket and coated the inside of the bracket with clear silicone and installed it back in place with the two wood screws. This will keep the engine mounted female plug from shifting while plugging in the wired male plug from the ignition box.






#342 Here's a picture of how the spark plug clip looks installed and clipped on a spark plug. Since the clip from S/S works just fine I ordered more to complete the wiring of all five engines.






#343 The two vertical versions were much easier to wire. The wires going up to the spark plug are on the same side as the Hall sensor Futaba plugs, and the hot and ground EC3 plugs.






#344 I also managed to assemble the remote CDI ignition box. I used a inexpensive wood box purchased on e-Bay. It was already stained, so all I needed to do was put on a few coats of sealer and polyurethane finish. I mounted the power switch on the lid of the box for easy access regardless of the boxes position. On the left side of the switch is a clear LED that glows bright green when the ignition is powered up.

I used the basic $55 system from S/S.

http://www.cncengines.com/ic.html






#345 When I tried to plug in the switch I found out that the Hong Kong seller had sent me one wired with RJ plugs instead of the Futaba that I ordered. Since the purchase was 4-5 months ago, and ordering a replacement would take too long, I cut off the plugs and soldered the connections. 

When the ignition box is not in use, the wires can be coiled up and stored inside the box.






#346 To use the ignition box, the wires are uncoiled and slipped into two slots cut into the lower half of the box just below the lid.






#347 With the wires out and secured in the notches the lid can be closed. I need to find and buy a small latch to secure the lid.






#348 Here's a group picture of my progress to date. There's only a few minor details left to finish, and then I'll start machining the flywheels.






-MB


----------



## ozzie46

Very nice "Family Portrait" there MB.  ;D ;D

  You're sure doing a bang up job on this.  :bow: :bow:


 Ron


----------



## Metal Butcher

Great news! 

The first engine is assembled complete with flywheels, and its running in hit-n-miss mode!

More details in a day or two. :big:

-MB


----------



## kcmillin

Great News Indeed MB! 

The antici..................pation. Cant wait to see the vid.

Kel


----------



## cfellows

I'm exhausted just watching the builds, can't imagine how relieved you must be!  Can't wait to see the video.

Chuck


----------



## Deanofid

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Great news!
> 
> The first engine is assembled complete with flywheels, and its running in hit-n-miss mode!
> 
> More details in a day or two. :big:
> 
> -MB



Done up right and it runs! That's great news, Rick.
Hey, sorry about the bum steer on the silicone tubing. Didn't realize it would only take glow fuel.
Good thing Gail was on the clock!

Dean


----------



## Metal Butcher

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Done up right and it runs! That's great news, Rick.
> Hey, sorry about the bum steer on the silicone tubing. Didn't realize it would only take glow fuel.
> Good thing Gail was on the clock!
> 
> Dean



Thanks Dean! The first one runs. and that's really good news!

No problems with the tubing suggestion. Its easy to think that 'air plane fuel line' would work, but it won't.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#349 With all of the wiring finished on the remote CDI box and the engine, the last ignition component was the installation of the spark plug. Since the cylinder head is aluminum it was a good idea to add some anti-seize to the threads on the plug prior to installation.







#350 The first pair of fly wheels was prepped, and then all of the machining steps were completed prior to painting them to match the water cooled version. In the picture below the governor carrier was test fitted.






#351 I was only able to get the engine to fire once on every 4 to 5 attempts at starting, and after about two hours I gave up and called George Britnell. George offered to come over to check out my engine to see why it wouldn't run. It turned out that I had my needle valve turned out way to far, and in a range of adjustment that was too rich. George got the engine running by starting at a near closed position, and fine tuning the needle valve adjustment slowly till the engine wood run. The setting is very critical with the needle valve that I made, and the needle valve needs to be replaced with one that has a more gradual taper, and will allow more leeway in adjustment. With the engine running nicely it shut off after a good warm up and the fuel flow stopped. Fine bubbles were forming in the fuel line cutting off the flow of fuel indicating a vapor lock. George recommended that I make a block to insulate the carburetor from heat coming from the cylinder head.

I made a simple isolation bushing out of Delrin and it solved the problem. I was able to run the engine this morning for 38 minutes, and drain the tank with no formation of vapor bubbles. The insulator is between the cylinder head and the carburetor.






#352 Here's another picture of the engine from the rear.






#353 Another picture showing the governor weights and springs.






I'm trying to make a video with no luck. I'm being told that something is wrong with my camera. It shuts down and the screen says to check the memory card. I tried two other ones, and the same problem continues. 

Video link: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=13944.0


-MB


----------



## doc1955

I had that problem with one of my cameras until I formatted card in the camera then worked fine.


----------



## rudydubya

Beautiful, MB. Is it just me, or does that color just look better and better over time?  :bow:

Rudy


----------



## Metal Butcher

doc1955  said:
			
		

> I had that problem with one of my cameras until I formatted card in the camera then worked fine.



Hi Doc. We formatted the card and the shut down occurred again, at about a minute and a half into the video. After that the camera would not erase the data, so we re-formatted again.
The second time around I stopped the taping after 40 seconds to prevent the shut down, which would corrupt the video making it unless. I made a second video and stopped it at about 1-1/2 minutes. Afterward the camera did erase the data. 'Picture guy's' conclusion is that the camera has an intermittent problem and that it should be replaced. 

The batteries will only hold a charge for about 24 hours, so I'm hopeful that the new set I ordered will solve the problem.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

rudydubya  said:
			
		

> Beautiful, MB. Is it just me, or does that color just look better and better over time?  :bow:
> 
> Rudy



Thanks Rudy. I'm very fond of the color too, but to keep it from getting old, only the water cooled one will be that color. The rest were not planned to be painted at all, but with the warmer weather coming I might just decide to paint one (or more) of them after their maiden run. I keep looking for another color that I like as much as the green with no luck so far.

I have a question, if you don't mind. What did you use for the springs on your governor?

Mine are .180 x 1.00 long (to the very end of the loops where they hook on) made of .013 wire. Using .012 or .011 might slow the cycling down a bit, but I'm really happy with the speed as it is, and don't feel compelled to try any change at the moment.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Rick----I can feel your excitement/frustration/delirious joy/confusion/pride----and so on!!!! Congratulations on your runner. I (among thousands) am anticipating the video.----Brian


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Rick----I can feel your excitement/frustration/delirious joy/confusion/pride----and so on!!!! Congratulations on your runner. I (among thousands) am anticipating the video.----Brian



Thanks Brian! Yes all of the above! With one engine done, its just the beginning of a very hectic time for me. No more time or need to think about how to proceed. Its all been worked out, and the result is the #1 engine complete and in running order. With time running short I must move forward with all the energy I can muster.

I have to machine four more sets of fly wheels, four more carburetor insulators, and other misc tasks before the final assembly. I'm doing one engine at a time, and I will post videos as each engine is deemed finished.

I started to machine the second set of flywheels today. It's very time consuming and intense, and there's no provision for error.

-MB


----------



## rudydubya

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> ...Rudy... I have a question, if you don't mind. What did you use for the springs on your governor?...Mine are .180 x 1.00 long (to the very end of the loops where they hook on) made of .013 wire. Using .012 or .011 might slow the cycling down a bit, but I'm really happy with the speed as it is, and don't feel compelled to try any change at the moment.
> 
> -MB



MB, my springs are 0.015" music wire, 57 turns, plus or minus a turn, closely spaced, 0.185" OD and 0.875" long, not counting the hooks, so they're a bit longer than yours.  My weights are about 0.010" shorter than the plans called for, so they weigh a little less, and I used a 0.27" wide strip of 0.005" brass shim stock for the arm return spring. I played around with different combinations of springs and weights trying to get as much "coast" as I could.

Regards,
Rudy


----------



## b.lindsey

MB,
It had been a while since I had checked in on your build(s) so last night I reread the entire thread. Such an amazing and well documented build it is too...I can't even imagine working on multiple engines at one time even though some of the parts are similar or identical. I am particularly interested in your use of the S/S CDI system as I plan on using the same system... so I gleaned some good info. from that part of the thread as well. The video you posted separately only confirms a job VERY well done!!! Looking forward to seeing the rest of them come to life too.

Regards,
Bill


----------



## Metal Butcher

Thanks Rudy. The info you provided was helpful in me understanding the relationship between the weight of the 'weights' and their springs. I made my weights slightly longer (heavier) than the plan. If I cut them down a bit, or make them from lighter aluminum, that would effectively reduce the engines speed without changing the spring wire to a smaller diameter.

I can fine tune this area latter. Right now my goal is to finish up with the last of the machining, and get all five in good running order.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

b.lindsey  said:
			
		

> MB,
> It had been a while since I had checked in on your build(s) so last night I reread the entire thread. Such an amazing and well documented build it is too...I can't even imagine working on multiple engines at one time even though some of the parts are similar or identical. I am particularly interested in your use of the S/S CDI system as I plan on using the same system... so I gleaned some good info. from that part of the thread as well. The video you posted separately only confirms a job VERY well done!!! Looking forward to seeing the rest of them come to life too.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill



At first I was overwhelmed with putting together the ignition system, just soldering the wires and getting the correct shrink tubing was all new to me. Eventually I got it all figured out and assembled.

I bought the 'basic' S/S system and added my own on/off switch, hall sensors, batteries and holder. I already had a 4x AA battery quick charger and the Nmh batteries. Its a really simple system to put together if you know how to solder the hall sensor wires together. Or you can buy a pre-wired sensor that simply plugs in to the CDI system. 
The unit draws very little power, I've had the ignition on for 4 hours or more, and have not re-charged the batteries yet! It seemed to be the best system for my needs, and its proven itself beyond a doubt.

Rechargeable (Nmh) batteries are very reasonably priced (E-bay, or store) and easy to transport, so taking an extra set and/or a small wall charger to a weekend engine show is as easy as it gets.

I bought the 'basic single' for $55.

http://www.cncengines.com/ic.html

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#354 I finished up all the lathe work on the next two flywheels and added a stepped profile on the sides of the flywheels. They turned out well, and I'm very pleased. The outer edges of the rims were protected with a layer of black duct tape. Silver will work too! 






#355 I mounted the flywheel in a fixture and shifted .531" off center to drill and tap the two 4-40 screw holes that will hold the carrier in place. This governor carrier is mounted on the inside of the flywheel used on the push rod side of the engine. I checked the location of the holes with the carrier in place just to verify before drilling.






#356 I used the same fixture and a 3/16" end mill to create a pocket for the arms on the carrier. After milling out the first pocket the flywheel was rotated 180* to mill the one on the other side. The arms are held in place with springs and rest on the outer .625" hub diameter when the engine is not running. The outside dimensions on the parts in this area are critical, and the plans proved to be correct.






#357 Here's the simple fixture I made. The brass pin was too tall and wouldn't allow a test fit of the carrier, so I 'fine tuned' it with a hack saw and file!






#358 Here the fixture is tilted over and rotated to do triple duty. It was used to center the flywheel bore to drill and tap it for a 4-40 set screw with out any fuss.
The pencil is pointing to the extensions I made for a #44 tap drill, and a 4-40 tap. An extension for a center drill could be made the same way. I simply drilled out some 7/32" rod and made the assembly permanent by using #609 Loctite. Making my own using this method was much quicker and less expensive than buying a pulley tap.






#359 Below I'm using my quick and dirty 'pulley tap'. With the hold down bolt going through the hub it interfered with the drilling. I drilled lightly till I could feel the drill just break through the flywheel hub and touch the bolt, and then I carefully tapped part way in, and finished up by hand tapping at the bench.






#360 I decided to broach the 1/16" key ways in the lathe. I chuck up a short piece of 1/2" brass round in the tail stock chuck and pushed the broach through by re-setting the tail stock a few times. It only took a few minutes and required less pressure that I normally use on drills over a quarter of an inch in diameter. Shamefully simple! 






#361 The picture below shows were I'm at with build #2. My spark plugs and clips came in two days after ordering them, so that's what I'll start with tomorrow.






To paint, or not to paint, that is the question..... :noidea:

-MB


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

It seems every time I have a question you answer it before I can post it! I was going to ask how you used that new set of duMont broaches - whether with an arbor press or some other route and you answered in this recent post. Previously I was going to ask about your ignition setup and of course you went into excellent detail there. Thanks for this great information. 

I'll be ordering a set of those broaches - just don't like using set-screws to hold the flywheels. 

I know you've been told before on many occasions, but let me say it again - great build series, really a course in how to build model engines. You need to compile this and publish a book - I'll buy at least one!

Best,
Mike


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Mike, thanks for the compliment. I'm glad to hear that my build thread is helpfull.

My first pair of flywheels could only be broached part way in the mill due to the vise's jaw carriage getting in the way, So I finished up using a 1/2 ton arbor press. The entire job cannot be done in the small arbor press due to a lack of clearance under the ram. Also, the press needed to be hanging over the edge of the bench for broach clearance, or I could have bolted it down and drilled a hole through the bench top.

It was much easier to just use the lathe since it was still set up with outside jaws used to machine the last side of the flywheels.

If you don't have an immediate need for the small broach 'set', you can buy just the 1/16" broach and a 5/16" collard bushing. If the need arises you can always add a bushing or broach.

http://www.shars.com/product_categories/view/2030201/HSS_Standard_Keyway_Broaches_with_Shims

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

Good news again! Engine #2 is in running order! woohoo1 woohoo1 

It took a quite bit of time late last night to get everything adjust to where the engine would run and start on one our two flips of the flywheel. After the engine ran non-stop for about 10 minutes I started to get vapor bubbles in the fuel line at the carburetor. I added a Delrin insulator just like I did on the first engine and it solved the problem. 

I had a minor compression leak on the exhaust valve. I couldn't see why it was leaking so I took a very light cut on the valve face and that solved the leak. This might have been caused by the run out on my inexpensive 3/32" collet, who knows, but the second time around using the same collet it worked. I just finished running the engine on a full tank of fuel with only one issue, the needle valve setting is way too sensitive, and will move on its own causing the engine to start faltering till its set back to the good running position. On a full tank of gasoline It ran for about 45 minutes and their was an noticeable increase in compression after the long run just like on build #1.

Later today I'll take the engine apart and start prepping it for a paint job. With the amount of time I have invested on this project, another day or two doesn't matter. 

-MB


----------



## ozzie46

Waah Hooo!!! 


  Way to go! :bow: :bow:

 Ron


----------



## doc1955

Looking nice MB !!


----------



## Deanofid

Two in a row! Woot! Thm: ;D ;D


----------



## bearcar1

Outstanding work MB. It is always such a pleasure to follow along with you on your journeys. That step in the flywheel side face really makes the piece 'jump' visually. Now then as for colors... wait, don't tell me, let me guess. MB Green! :big: A great choice. It sure must feel good to get these engines to run with a minimum amount of fiddling around. It speaks volumes to the craftsmanship and or the overall design of the engines themselves or both. Whatever the reason, I like it. ;D

BC1
Jim


----------



## Metal Butcher

#362 After a complete dis-assembly of build #2 last night all of the parts to be painted were cleaned with lacquer thinner to remove any traces of oil. I dusted on a thin base coat of light gray primer, followed by a thin top coat of clear lacquer. After an hour of air dying the parts were oven dried at very low temperature for two hours. today I carefully assembled the engine and took the pictures posted below. Prior to dis-assembly I marked the gear and magnet carrier positions with a felt tip marker to speed up the adjustments that will be needed to put the engine back in running order.

The best approach on build #3 might be to paint the engine first before the initial set-up and maiden run. I was not planning on painting all five builds, but I changed my mind feeling its worth the extra effort for the cosmetic benefit.







#363 As most of you may already know, the NO.1 cause of Hall Sensor failure is a grounding failure or interruption. To eliminate this possibility its a good idea to remove all the paint beneath each screw head on the engines frame. The way I did this without making a mess of the paint job was to spin each screw in its clearance hole with a small amount of lapping compound under the head. Afterward I carefully removed the residue from the frame plates using a soft towel moistened with lighter fluid, and washed the compound off the screws. Then each screw was lightly coated with a very small amount of dielectric grease prior to installation. It might sound a bit like over-kill, but its better to spend a few minutes on prevention rather than an agonizing hour on the cure.






#364 Oops, I forgot to install the muffler! ;D






#365 Still no muffler, but its a nice picture!  






#366 Oh boy! Now I noticed all the oilers are missing too! oh:






#367 This is a picture from the rear. A chill just ran up my back.... I hope I remembered to install the piston rings! scratch.gif






#368 Ah! There's the muffler. 






#369 This is the last picture of Engine #2. Its a shame it has to get all dirty when I try to get it into running order again. 






Video Link: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=13996.0

-MB


----------



## gbritnell

That came out great Rick but out of the final three you need a least one red one. Out of all the full sized ones made there were quite a few that were red, Galloways, Associated. 
George


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi George! What a coincidence! 

I decided earlier today that the very next one (#3 engine) would be red. A satin red oxide primer color, base coat with clear top coat.

And this one I'm painting before I attempt the first running. ;D

-MB


----------



## metalmad

Be carefull MB
Red ones go faster !!
Pete


----------



## cfellows

I have to agree with you, MB, the paint does add a lot of interest to the engines. May have to think about adding some paint to some of my engines. They do spend a lot of time on the shelf not running...

Chuck


----------



## Metal Butcher

#370 Since my car needs to be out of the garage every time I paint, a decision was made to paint all of the frame plates for the three remaining engines. The aluminum plates were painted with a self etching primer first. After they dried the colored primer base coats, and the clear lacquer top coats were added and oven dried.

http://www.duplicolor.com/products/selfEtchingPrimer/

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5c5y5pyOmY[/ame]

Below are the parts for the Horizontal F-Head version ,build #3. 






#371 I decided to use the same color on the Vertical F-Head version, build #4.






#372 I used a darker medium gray color on the Vertical Air cooled version, build #5. (The Horizontal Air Cooled #2 engine is a light gray) 






Finding and using the right parts to assemble the 3 remaining engines will be interesting to say the least! 
I just hope I didn't mix up the parts when I painted them, ending up with multi-colored engines. oh: Rof} 

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

This is an interesting situation. 372 pictures are missing on my build thread over night! ???

This tread has been getting very few visitors lately, and my posting has slowed to a snails pace. th_wtf1 

Is this a conspiracy, and how they increase their cash flow? :redface2:

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This is the way they do it Rick. You have exceeded your "free limit". They still have all your pictures, but they will remain locked untill you "subscribe" to photobucket for a yearly fee. Fortunately, the fee is quite low, but its still kind of a sneaky trick!!!---Brian


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,


Don't know about you, but when something is advertised as 'Free' I figure I don't have to pay for it! (TNSTAAFL!)

Thank goodness I saved all your photos in the Upshur build file I put together as I'm depending on it for help and guidance while building my poor little single copy! ;D

Best,
Mike


----------



## doc1955

Your photos aren't locked it is that the band width for the moth is used up you get (I believe) 10gig a month. So at the beginning of the next month they will be back.


----------



## Metal Butcher

Later today when "Picture Guy" shows up I'll have him pay the F-bucket bill so he can get the pictures I took of build #3 posted.

Their strong arm tactic worked. th_bs

-MB


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

Fast question for you: I bought the duMont 1/16th broach and some 1/16th key stock - broached one of the flywheels today using your method and must say it was surprisingly easy (glad I bought the duMont rather than the import!) After pushing it through the first time I then inserted the shim and pushed it through the second time - wouldn't it have been better to just stop with the first cut as the keyway is now almost the depth of the key stock? I appreciate when the grub screw presses down on they key it will lock it to the keyway on the shaft but it looks too deep to me. 

Best,
Mike


----------



## Metal Butcher

Hi Mike. You do not use the shim to broach the 1/16" key way. One pass is all thats needed.

The shim is used with the largest (1/8") size only, to broach twice, first without and then with the shim, this keeps the amount of material being removed to a minimum.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

With the painted finish thoroughly dried I assembled Engine #3, the Horizontal F-Head. I posted quite a few pictures. Now that I have a paid f-bucket account, posting too many pictures is no longer a concern.

Here you go George, a red one! And the next one will be red too!
#373




#374




#375




#376




#377




#378




#379




#380




#381




#382





The next step is to get this one adjusted and in good running order.

Video link: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=14049.msg144638;topicseen#new

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Awesome work as usual Rick!!! I really like the red.---Brian


----------



## awJCKDup

Really excellant work MB! building that many engines in one build, I can't even imagine. Very good looking, very good quality, and a very satisfying build to follow.

John


----------



## Deanofid

I like the red, too! Glad you got your pics back, Rick.


----------



## Metal Butcher

#383 Today I finished up assembling Engine #4, the Vertical F-Head with optional hit-n-miss governor. As usual I had a tough time with those pesky little E-clips, and spent a good amount of time chasing down the ones that flew away and ended up on the floor! I wasn't very fond of the red color last year, but its starting to look good. Its amazing how the full screen close-up shots show off dust that I cant see with my tired old eyes.

The next step is to see if I can get it to run. Maybe I'll try tomorrow, this way I can enjoy looking it over without the mess that the oiling will cause. 






#384




#385




#386




#387




#388




#389




#390




#391




#392





One more engine left to assemble

-MB


----------



## kustomkb

Your engines are beautiful MB!

I like the different configurations.


----------



## metalmad

Looking great MB
Pete


----------



## cfellows

Lovely work, MB. What are you going to do to top this series?

Chuck


----------



## moconnor

Hello MB,

Magnificent work. I have thoroughly enjoyed following your build(s) and always look forward to your next post. I hope the remaining assembly and initial starting and sorting out goes as smoothly as possible.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to share this with us. I certainly appreciate your efforts.

Kind regards,
Mike

P.S. Thanks for getting your pictures back on-line. I was kicking myself for not copying some of them a putting them in a folder when I saw that they were gone a few days back. :wall:


----------



## Metal Butcher

#393 I posted this same information earlier on my #3 video thread. I copyied & pasted it here on my build thread, where it may benefit a future builder. 

I was having a problem with multiple sensor failure on engine #4, and solved the problem by insulating the entire sensor and its prongs with shrink tubing. It worked! The engine is starting and running great.

I made the same insulation change on this engine (#3) and the erratic running and shutting down behavior it was displaying for no apparent reason has gone away. I started it several times this morning and ran it without any issues.

The lesson learned with this experience is to insulate from the solder joints all the way up-and-over the entire sensor chip, past the top by 1/16" or slightly more, and seal the open end with a silicone sealant. Once it sets up you can mount the sealed sensor in any type of mount including metal, and mount it in place using whatever glue you like with out any problem.

The carrier on the left shows the potentially flawed way I originally set up the sensors and filled the gaps with a 2-part epoxy. This is the most likely cause of the sensor failures I encountered. On the right is the new method I used to completely insulate the sensor before it was glued in place.

So far, two engines have this improvement and continue to run with out any of the problems I encountered with the original mounting method.






#394 I used super glue jell to 'pot' the insulated sensor, and added a 3/8" x 3/8" x .030" piece of plastic to hold it in place while the glue set up. Using a thin piece of plastic over the top made the assembly a little easier and added another layer of insulation.






-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher

#395 Engine #5, The Vertical Air Cooled Hit-N-Miss version is fully assembled and ready for its maiden run! It took me the better part of the day. The problem being build #3 & #4 sitting on my other bench gassed up and ready to run. They have been a major a distraction all day. I fire one up and let it run, hook up the CDI to the other one and let it run, open the windows in the shop and go up to let it air out a bit, and repeat the cycle after adding a part or two to build #5. oh:




#396




#397




#398




#399




#400




#401




#402




#403




#404





-MB


----------



## stevehuckss396

I have been following along from the start. Now that you are coming to a close here I just wanted to thank you for posting the pics and all i can say is..

Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Deanofid

Another full on beauty, Rick. You sure know how to make a great looking engine look even better
with a bit of wood work. You have a good eye for esthetics to go along with your machining skills.

Dean


----------



## bearcar1

I'll second what Dean said. Nice !! Thm:

BC1
Jim


----------



## doc1955

I have to say you have done a super job :bow: :bow:
And have a beautiful set of engines to take pride in :bow: :bow:
I don't know if I could pick a favorite they all are so beautiful!!!!!!!


----------



## cfellows

I think the vertical is my favorite. Very clean lines, nice colors, great machine work, altogether very pleasing. What are the dimensions of the clevis on the end of the push rod that attaches to the rocker arm? Also, what size pin did you use? I'm thinking of using your rocker arm design for my radial compressed air engine, but might have to scale it down some.

Chuck


----------



## Metal Butcher

cfellows  said:
			
		

> I think the vertical is my favorite. Very clean lines, nice colors, great machine work, altogether very pleasing. What are the dimensions of the clevis on the end of the push rod that attaches to the rocker arm? Also, what size pin did you use? I'm thinking of using your rocker arm design for my radial compressed air engine, but might have to scale it down some.
> 
> Chuck



Thanks Chuck! The clevis was made from 1/4 x 1/4" square brass bar stock. I set up a 2" long piece sticking out the side of my mill vise and used a 1/8" slitting saw to cut the 1/4" deep slot for the 1/8" thick rocker arm. I cut it off a 1/2" long and turned the round boss .150 long x .200" diameter using a square collet in the lathe. I drilled for the 3/32" push rod (it gets threaded 3-48) from the boss end all the way through to the slot and tapped it 3-48. I drilled and reamed a 3/32" hole for the pivot pin centered and 1/8" from the slotted end of the clevis.

The pivot pin and the threaded push rod are 3/32" drill rod. The pivot pin was grooved on both ends .020 wide x .010" deep for E-clips. The diameter of the groove should be .074". I don't have the ability to measure a thin groove like this, so I use a marker pen on the pivot pin and advance the groove cutter till it touches, zero out my indicator and go in .010". After I check the fit with an E-Clip I make a minor adjustment to the depth of cut on the next groove if needed.

 Enco has the 3/32" E-Clips, E-9 is the industry # and the order # is 325-2834.

-MB


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

Yet another success! Must be getting a bit boring for you (NOT!)

I have one question - is there anyway to reduce the shaking around when these are in the H&M mode? Any way to improve the balance perhaps?

Best,
Mike
p.s. - I'm still plugging along on my single version of the Upshur, (although I have several engines worth of 'spare parts'!)


----------



## Metal Butcher

MikeA  said:
			
		

> Hello MB,
> 
> Yet another success! Must be getting a bit boring for you (NOT!)
> 
> I have one question - is there anyway to reduce the shaking around when these are in the H&M mode? Any way to improve the balance perhaps?
> 
> Best,
> Mike
> p.s. - I'm still plugging along on my single version of the Upshur, (although I have several engines worth of 'spare parts'!)



Hi Mike! Thanks for the compliment. My engines have a jump that makes a hammering sound on a bench top. There are a few things that might help to reduce this. 

A lighter piston rod made of aluminum.
Counter weights on the crank webs.
Counter weights on the flywheels.
A larger, thicker, and heavier wood base, maybe a painted steel base?

It only takes a little finger pressure to stop it from hammering on the bench, but its a nuisance issue worth addressing. 

-MB


----------



## el gringo

I built the Topsey Turvey last year and had SERIUS jumping around th_wav. Yup, more flywheel (one additional), *grande* wood base, timing, on and on.... 

Ray M


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I may have found the answer to a hit and miss engine "jumping around" by accident. I mounted my engine on a peice of wooden 2 x 8" spruce wood, (see avatar) and routed a bunch of grooves in the underside of the wood for the electrical wiring. After the wiring was all tucked up in place, I filled the grooves with slilcone from a tube with my caulking gun. I let it set up overnight to solidify, and the next morning I found that the silicone was about 1/32" "proud" of the wooden base. That bit of silicone keeps everything very stable when the engine is running. It has enough "give' to soak up any vibration from the engine, and a high enough co-efficient of friction to keep the board from sliding around when the engine runs.----Brian


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB, Ray and Brian,

Please understand I'm proceeding a bit 'blind' on this but I think Rick put his finger on it with the need for some balancing of the flywheel vs. the reciprocating mass (piston, gudgeon pin, small end of the con rod and part of the balance). I've noted on the plans for the Farm Boy he takes a cut for balance out of the side of the flywheel opposite the crank throw and am wondering if that would be any help. 

I'm thinking of drilling perhaps 4 - 6 holes on the inside of the flywheels at the perimeter. This is strictly SWAG at best.

I like the idea of the silicon on the base, may try that as well - it can't hurt!  

Best,
Mike


----------



## GailInNM

Something that works well for me is Non Slip shelf liner for the kitchen shelves. It is about 3/32 inch thick (2mm) and has a high coefficient of friction. It is soft and dampens vibrations very well. Just cut a piece a little larger than the base of the engine and place it under the engine. It really quiets the mechanical engine noise down from the vibrations transmitted through the base to a solid surface such as a table as well as keeping the engine from walking around.

It is also very useful to have pieces to set on the mill table or lathe bench to set things like measuring tools on. It protects the tools from the hard surface and keeps them from "walking" arround if there are vibrations. Protects the bench top or machine tool paint from scratches and dings too when you set a cutting tool down. 

I first found this material at a RV supply where it was sold to keep dishes from rattling around in the cabinet when driving. That was years ago. Now you can find it in the shelf paper section of supermarkets. It is inexpensive so you can just replace it when it gets dirty. 

Gail in NM


----------



## MikeA

Hello Gail,

Your comment reminded me of a material we used to isolate photomicrography cameras - Sorbothane. It is used in lab environments and although pricey, very effective at isolating vibration. I still have a good sized chunk (1/2" x 12" X 18") and will give it a try.

Best,
Mike


----------



## Metal Butcher

Good tip Gail, and certainly worth a try. I don't have any on hand at the moment to try out when I fire up engine #5 later today. I have some at my summer place that I unroll to cover a seat in my boat. It woorks great to keep my slippery American Eskimo Dog from sliding around when I take him on boat rides. :big:

-MB


----------



## doc1955

For my engines I've just used the little self adhesive feet you can get at Walmart you can get felt rubber or silicon. They work good at taking up some or the vibes and are easy to put in place.


----------



## Metal Butcher

doc1955  said:
			
		

> For my engines I've just used the little self adhesive feet you can get at Walmart you can get felt rubber or silicon. They work good at taking up some or the vibes and are easy to put in place.



Thanks for the tip Doc. I put four feet under the wood bases, but they are a very hard rubber with no isolation quality to speak of.

I pass by a WM every week, so I'll stop to take a look at what they have.

-MB


----------



## MikeA

Hello MB,

I assume you are off doing your summer 'things' and may not be following this thread, but on the off chance you still check in, will you share what you did with the main bearings? 

I've been over those plans I-don't-know how many times, and all it says is to make the main bearings from standard 0.5" bearing materials that is pre-drilled to the correct ID. I've done that but have no idea how these are supposed to be fixed in the side plates. 

Did I miss something?

Best,
Mike
p.s. - just finished up the oilers per your method - very slick!


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Mike, 

I think MB is preoccupied riding his WaveRunner around the lake. 

Just make the fit snug and Loctite (red) them in place. 

-Trout


----------



## MikeA

Hello Trout,

I assumed he would be gone most of the summer from some of his previous posts.

The method you suggest is probably what was intended (couldn't find anything in the plans).

I might try putting a setscrew in through the back.

Best,
Mike


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Methinks this massive undertaking of constructing 5 Upshur engines at once may have had an effect on MB. Waverunner season is well past now but alas, he has not resurfaced. 

Hey MB, we need someone with your skills to build up three or four Panther Pups and document the process along the way. *beer*

-Trout


----------



## Metal Butcher

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> Methinks this massive undertaking of constructing 5 Upshur engines at once may have had an effect on MB. Waverunner season is well past now but alas, he has not resurfaced.
> 
> Hey MB, we need someone with your skills to build up three or four Panther Pups and document the process along the way. *beer*
> 
> -Trout



Hey Trout! Me thinks you may be right! I pushed myself really hard last season. 

Seadoo time was over a while ago and I've been involved with my new ATV (serviced and sold my old one). I should be back down to the shop in a week or two. No engine project in mind at the moment, but I have plenty of minor repairs to catch up on, misc repair parts to make, and preping for the fast approach of winter. The numerous projects should keep me busy for a while. 

Panther pup? I hope that's a 1 cylinder wobbler that I never heard of. ;D

MB


----------



## Troutsqueezer

Ah....you are alive, good to see!

Panther Pup, should be a piece of cake for The Butcher.  http://www.billreichart.com/engines.shtml This one is on my list. 

What kind of ATV did you get? I love mine, use it several times a week around the ranch for a variety of things. Yamaha Kodiak. 

-T


----------



## Metal Butcher

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> Ah....you are alive, good to see!
> 
> Panther Pup, should be a piece of cake for The Butcher.  http://www.billreichart.com/engines.shtml This one is on my list.
> 
> What kind of ATV did you get? I love mine, use it several times a week around the ranch for a variety of things. Yamaha Kodiak.
> 
> -T



Piece of cake? I don't know about that. Hmmm....

I got a left over crated (green, of course) 2011 Yamaha Grizzly 550 EPS. Its a big step up from my 250 (239 cc) Bear Tracker china clone. I made a bit of a mistake letting "Honey" take it for a ride, She likes the EPS. She didn't ride the old one much claiming it was to hard to steer and control. Guess I'll be waiting for my turn to go riding!

Didn't spend much time on the Seadoo this summer. My Canadian friend wanted to go flying instead. That was a lot of fun when I could keep my mind of the obvious dangers. Running out of fuel or breaking down on the Seadoo would be just a minor inconvenience. In a plane it becomes a bit more than "minor". My friend would always re-assure me (with a sheepish grin) that the trees would slow us down, if he were forced to land. 

-MB


----------



## Troutsqueezer

MB, it looks like you used head gaskets on these. Was it a precaution or was there substantial leaking? What material did you use, hombre? 

Mine's getting close. 

Thanks. 

-Trout


----------



## Metal Butcher

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> MB, it looks like you used head gaskets on these. Was it a precaution or was there substantial leaking? What material did you use, hombre?
> 
> Mine's getting close.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -Trout



I was wondering how yours was coming along, glad to hear your on the job!

I used a head gasket out of necessity. Never tried the Upshur with out one. On a small low pressure air engine I can get away with out using a gasket. Not so with an I.C. engine that has higher pressure, thermal expansion,etc. If your head and cylinder surfaces match up nice you can probably get it to run and add a gasket later, but it will probably leak some.

I used Fel-Pro 1/32" rubber fiber gasket (dark gray color). One of your local auto parts store's should have it. I don't think you need any thing fancy with a low temperature hit-miss like the Upshur.

-MB


----------



## KM6VV

A little late, but I just found this thread and have fully enjoyed it.  I hope to be building my Upshur Farm Engine soon.
Great photography!
Alan


----------

