# Chuck Key



## roadrage17 (Jun 11, 2009)

First time i have dont this left the chuck key in the lathe and turned it on .  Scared the living daylights out of me!!!!!!!!!
Not going to do that again.


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## Maryak (Jun 11, 2009)

RR17,

I'm happy that's all it did and not take you out. ;D  It's one of the reasons it's call a CHUCK key.  : A good rule is don't start the lathe drill etc if the key is not in your hand. 

Hope this helps ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## vlmarshall (Jun 11, 2009)

There's a story running around the shops here about a guy a few years ago that was killed by a chuck T-handle. Be careful.

I never let go of the t-handle until I've removed it from the chuck, either back in a holder, or laying somewhere safe.

Also, watch out for stuff laying on top of lathes, where they could vibrate off and fall into a spinning chuck. 

I've hit my knuckles on the chuck enough times, I don't want it THROWING things at me, too.


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## zeeprogrammer (Jun 11, 2009)

When I started this hobby a few months ago and was telling my friends about it...the first thing those who had any experience at all said was..."don't leave the chuck key in the lathe"...Kinda of scared me after the 3rd person in a row. Didn't stop me...but made me real careful.

But yes...it's not just about the chuck key... look around...and look up...anything on a shelf that might vibrate off? Even nearby...anything that might fall and scare the "..." out of you? Make you jump?

That's what worries me. Right now I'm used to being alone. When my wife comes home (she's on assignment in Europe)...it's going to change things. It'll surprise me when the door suddenly opens.

The other aspect...my lathe key has a spring on it. It's hard to leave it in place. Gives a false sense of safety. I might be less thoughtful when I use the mill key. Worse, if the happy day comes when I can upgrade my lathe and it doesn't have the spring!

As has been mentioned (less than often enough)...think before turning on the switch.

This isn't directed at you roadrage17. It's as useful (if not more) so to talk about the boo-boos as the successes. This serves to remind me for one...and hopefully others. So thanks for reminding us.

Maybe I've had one too many tonight...(and no...I don't drink and machine).


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## mklotz (Jun 11, 2009)

Well, if you want to get really anal about it, make a chuck key holder - basically a tube into which the arm of the key fits. At the bottom of the tube mount a microswitch and series wire it into the lathe power circuit (a relay may be required). Now the lathe can't be started unless the key is in its holder.

Personally, I would find such a system a massive PIA. But, if you're worried about your ability to concentrate, maybe it's the way to go.


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## rake60 (Jun 12, 2009)

I've been a career machinist for about 30 years now.

*Rule #1 is NEVER take your hand off a chuck key!!!*

I know that rule very well.
However at least once a year I'll get distracted by something and 
do exactly that same thing. By luck, I've never been injured.
I have damaged a few machines with those little lapses of 
attention.

Most of us have done it.
The worst scared will be the safest in the future.

Rick


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## kustomkb (Jun 12, 2009)

I have been machining for 15 years.

About three years ago, for some reason, (rushing), I took my hand off the key and it shot straight into the ground about 3 inches from my foot.

It was a variable speed motor and I think it was the instant acceleration that saved the machine from damage.

Parting off a 3 inch dia. 1 inch thick doughnut, slipped out of my hand, hit the 12 inch chuck jaw. shot straight up, tapped a 20 foot ceiling, before I could see where it went, straight back down, between the ways, into a soft pile of chips, without a sound.

Nobody saw, I was new, lucky to be alive.

Be careful.

PS don't polish bores with emery wrapped around your finger.


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## speakerme (Jun 12, 2009)

Hello Friends,

BTDT, Been there done that. I was going to take a pictire of the fractured key, the square part nearly completely bent and separated from where the key transitions to round, but the digital camera batteries are flat. The square part that fits in the chuck hangs on by a few thous of metal to the shaft.

I keep it around the shop as a reminder.

My check list is now:

Turn the chuck manually to make sure that everything clears...
Observe where the key is... (not in the chuck)
Set the speed
Check feed direction
turn the lathe on....

Best Wishes and be safe


Chuck M


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## vlmarshall (Jun 12, 2009)

kustomkb  said:
			
		

> P.S. don't polish bores with emery wrapped around your finger.



Too true, I've had an emery paper strip that I was using double up on itself, tighten like a strap wrench, and instantly wind around the part I was polishing. The emery strip was just long enough to catch the tip of my thumb and give me a good scare, and an abrasion as a reminder. Now I never use a piece of paper long enough to wrap around the part.


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## itowbig (Jun 12, 2009)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Well, if you want to get really anal about it, make a chuck key holder - basically a tube into which the arm of the key fits. At the bottom of the tube mount a microswitch and series wire it into the lathe power circuit (a relay may be required). Now the lathe can't be started unless the key is in its holder.
> 
> Personally, I would find such a system a massive PIA. But, if you're worried about your ability to concentrate, maybe it's the way to go.



Now there is a good idea. i dont think it would be anal but rather smarter. especially for those of us that have problems remembering to remove the dang thing.


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## SignalFailure (Jun 12, 2009)

I ****ALWAYS**** use the speed control knob to start up my mini-lathe, usually allowing a few turns at about 20 RPM to ensure that:-

1 I haven't left the chuck key in
2 The toolpost isn't locked to the leadscrew if I don't want it to be (it gives time to unlock it)
3 A tool or the toolpost isn't fouling the work or the chuck
4 The workpiece is securely held

If anything is going to go belly up i'd rather it happen at 20rpm than 2000 rpm.

The worst I've had so far is the chuck key falling out and making a little dent on the bed. It's the one and only time I've left the key in (it was about 3 years ago when I first set out on this road) and I can safely say I much prefer a little dent in my lathe to a chuck key embedded in my face.

I've seen a fair few people hit the on/off button on serious size lathes with the speed set at lots-of rpm - it scares the crap out of me!


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## thefishhunter (Jun 13, 2009)

I was working in a drafting dept, and we could use the shop equipment after hours.

The very first time I ever TOUCHED a lathe, I chucked up some bit of aluminum, and turned the thing on...

_*Smack! right square in the chest. * _   

I turned ti off, put the key back where it went, and walked right back in the office. I didn't touch that machine for a week, and I'm still terrified of leaving a chuck key in.

I still think that old man that ran the shop got a big kick out of that (pissed at havinbg one of the young office Sh&^% in his shop) he never gave me so much as one word of advise messing with his machines out there...


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 13, 2009)

When I was in USAF tech school for machining it was at an army post and the labs were shared One row of lathes belonged to the air force One row for the army etc. When one of the army guys left the chuck key in everyone knew it . he had to carry a 2 1/2 foot long aluminum chuck key everywhere for the next day or so. I did have a leather strap I think it sat next to him while running the machine but I saw a guy in the latrine with that thing slung over the shoulder. 
Tin


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## Kermit (Jun 14, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> But yes...it's not just about the chuck key... look around...and look up...anything on a shelf that might vibrate off? Even nearby...anything that might fall and scare the "..." out of you? Make you jump?
> 
> That's what worries me. Right now I'm used to being alone. When my wife comes home (she's on assignment in Europe)...it's going to change things. It'll surprise me when the door suddenly opens.



When a 5 inch naval gun is fired, right outside your workspace(Firecontrol/Radar) you 'jump'. When this happened the first time for me, I had my head and part of my body squeezed inside the case of the CFA. I cut my scalp on the metal around the access panel and was bleeding like a stuck pig. Lots of blood for such a tiny scalp wound.

Loud noises no longer make my body twitch or jump. My body learned from the pain inflicted that first time. I still jump on the inside, my heart speeds up and feels like it will jump out of my chest, but no outward sign is shown of the scare.

Bugs my kids to no end. They think they can't scare daddy  They scare me plenty, it just doesn't show on the outside.


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## bearcar1 (Jun 23, 2009)

Let us all also be reminded of not turning the mill on with nothing attached to the drawbar. (for those that have a power DB, you may ignore this) Without anything to hold it in the spindle, and the machine running, it will walk itself up and throw itself in what ever direction it feels like traveling, and at a fairly high velocity. 


BC1
Jim


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## websterz (Jul 5, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> That's what worries me. Right now I'm used to being alone. When my wife comes home (she's on assignment in Europe)...it's going to change things. It'll surprise me when the door suddenly opens.



I have a bell hanging outside the shop. Just loud enough to get my attention over the loudest machine in the shop but not so loud it scares the bejeezes out of me. There is a sign asking folks to ring the bell before entering, and the bell is far enough from the door to give me a good 5 second warning. I have not been startled since installing it.


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## Carteacher (Jul 8, 2009)

Machining is a new hobby for me. We have a very dusty Bridgeport and lathe at my high school that I have started to toy around with. For home I bought one of those Chinese Harbor Freight lathes. One (only?) nice thing about the lathe is the a cover over the check. To use the check key you have to lift the cover up. If the cover is up the lathe will not run. A simple but great idea. They also had a spring on the key that would push the key out if you let go of it, but it got annoying and feeling it was redundant I took it off. 
To prevent a similar problem on the Bridgeport (students may mess with it) I cut off the box end of the wrench.


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## Blogwitch (Jul 8, 2009)

This is how I got over my problems with chuck keys.


In just over 3.5" x 3", I have managed to squeeze in all my generally used tools on the lathe. I positioned it for natural reach of my left arm, when sitting on my chair or standing in my normal position at the lathe, and no, it doesn't get in the way, and I don't keep bumping into it with delicate body parts.

Back to front, the key for removing the chuck from the lathe, Allen key with fitted handle that locks up my cross slide, the normal chuck key, and at the front, air blower and swarf rake, which has a pvc handle fitted that doubles as a precision persuader when setting jobs up, rather than me having to use a plastic handled screwdriver.
The holder has shallow grooves that the chuck key handles drop into, and keeps them in position. All made from a piece of 1/2" thick pvc with all corners rounded off. A bit of ply would do the same job.
After you have used a tidy for a day or two, it becomes automatic to drop the tools back into the holder, without having to think about it.
It also stops them being launched into orbit when they fall off the top of the head onto a spinning chuck, because there is no need now to put them on the top.








But this is my main chuck shifter. Because I have little use of my right arm for tightening things up, I needed something to assist me.
Because all my chucks on the lathe use a 3/8" / 10mm key, I fitted a normal 3/8" extension onto an el cheapo 3/8" air powered ratchet. This allows me to tighten up or slacken off at the flick of a switch.
It is a real bonus when fitting and removing collets, as it takes an age to wind them in and out by hand.







Let go of it, and it automatically lifts up well out of the way, but still within easy reach, by use of a pre-tensioned tool hanger.







Blogs


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## justlesh (Jul 11, 2009)

Not a chuck key but plenty dangerous. Tool post grinders, I stayed late to finish I.D., Boss comes in early, sets up for O.D. but doesn't change pulleys. He never got around to fixing holes in wall before he died, not from shop accident.


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## websterz (Aug 13, 2009)

justlesh  said:
			
		

> Not a chuck key but plenty dangerous. Tool post grinders, I stayed late to finish I.D., Boss comes in early, sets up for O.D. but doesn't change pulleys. He never got around to fixing holes in wall before he died, not from shop accident.



 ??? ??? ???


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## Alb (May 6, 2011)

Hi All,

Hope this helps 
My brother got a chuch key bounce off his cake hole Lucky for him is was a drill chuck key
With that in mind when i got my md65 lathe the first thing i did was braze on a washer about half way down the shank of the key then stuck on a spring from a bycicle pump so that you have to push the square into the chuck and if you let go it will just spring out ;D 

James


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## Sparticusrye (May 6, 2011)

About 3 years ago. I had the person operating the lathe infront of me on the shop floor leave his key in and turn on the lathe. I heard a scary woosh as it flew over my shoulder. I took his chuck key and put a spring on it with a retaining ring. So now it won't stay in the chuck without his hand on it. The lathes in that shop were set on a slight angle which is probably what saved me.

I never take my hand off the key when in use. That was too close for comfort.


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## Paulsv (May 6, 2011)

websterz  said:
			
		

> I have a bell hanging outside the shop. Just loud enough to get my attention over the loudest machine in the shop but not so loud it scares the bejeezes out of me. There is a sign asking folks to ring the bell before entering, and the bell is far enough from the door to give me a good 5 second warning. I have not been startled since installing it.



When I built my basement shop, my wife laughed because I used a set of French doors as the entrance to the shop. She thought I was trying to be stylish, but I really just wanted to be able to see or sense anyone that was about to enter the shop when I was using a machine, especially the table saw, which scares me a lot worse than metal working machines.


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## picclock (May 6, 2011)

I always make it a habit to rotate the chuck by hand before turning the machine on. This prevents unintended tool crashes and as the key will not clear the ways prevents the chuck rotating.

Seems to work for me.

picclock


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## tornitore45 (May 6, 2011)

I never had a problem with forgetting the key in, so far.
My problem is to find it when needed, sometime I have in the hand after losening a part and walk away from the late, put down the key pick up another something...

It was so bad with the little drill press key that finally I chained it. Is not as handy but can be too far.


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## mklotz (May 6, 2011)

I've seen those chuck keys with the auto-ejection springs. It would drive me crazy(ier) to be forced to use one. I'd grind that spring off the first time it hopped out of the hole when I needed that hand to make an adjustment.

The best approach is to mount a microswitch at the bottom of the tube which you use to hold the wrench when it's not in use. Wire the microswitch in series with the tool (lathe, drill press, etc.) so the wrench has to be in the holder for the tool to operate. A side benefit of this approach is that you'll always be able to find the wrench the next time you need it.


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## tornitore45 (Feb 15, 2012)

The spring that came with the chuck key was removed instantly and saved in spring bin, you never know when you need a spring.

They are unpractical.


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## pete (Feb 15, 2012)

I have no doubt this is going to sound like I'm an uncaring know it all. That's not what I'm trying to give for an impression and you can think about my points however and whatever you'd like because I'm not about to change what works for me.

I run and have run mobile construction and mining equipment for about 40 years. Some of it has weighed up to 2,000 tons. There's no safe guards on this equipment and any operater can easily damage the equipment or injure and even kill himself or others. You work your way up in this business. Have I made mistakes? Of course, Thankfully none very serious. But you learn to do an automatic check list and grow a third eye in the back of your head. For some equipment like rope shovels and excavators, A few items to visually check on that list might be done 600-1,000 times in a 12 hour shift.

I can't recall exactly where I read it, But I think it was in one of George Thomas's books. "It's just as easy to learn good working habits as bad". So on most hobby size equipment it's pretty easy to make a full rotation on the chuck checking for clearance on our lathes, mills and drill presses. I've bought a few drill press chucks with those spring loaded chuck keys and I've removed the spring on every single one.They really are useless and a joke. They do more damage to the chuck and key teeth than their worth due to being forced out of engagement as their rotated. A simple 10 second visual check along with a designated hanger for any chuck key should take about 3 days for a inexperienced operater to learn to use for a lifetimes habit. Even when I'm 100% positive my clearances are fine, I ALWAYS rotate that lathe chuck one revolution just as a check before hitting the power switch. That way I never make a mistake about forgetting to do so when or if there is a clearance problem. In my industry you don't get cut any slack for forgetting the basics. In fact your judged more than very harshly. I also don't cut myself any slack for forgetting those basics in my shop either. Microswitches, spring loaded keys etc are fine as an idea, But you will never 100% outwit true stupidity or lack of attention to detail. Better education about safety and personal shop habits will do far more than all these "safe for the incompetent" systems ever will. 

A dead simple checklist that works for how you do takes just a few seconds and after a bit of time you don't even think about doing it.

So do my methods work? I've yet to forget a chuck key. And up to now I've never run a cutting tool or the carriage parts into a lathe chuck or a tool into a milling vice or the table. You can explain all these chuck key dangers in a brand new post every single day, But if a person won't learn or understand about the safety issues? Sorry, But I just don't have a lot of sympathy for them. For some items in life? "I forgot" really isn't an option or a reasonable excuse. 

Pete


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## chrsbrbnk (Feb 17, 2012)

Kind of the other side of the routine I was holding the chuck key in my hand on a hardinge hlv toolroom lathe operating the chuck when an allen wrench fell out of the tool holder, hits the forward lever which turns the machine on slamming my hand and chuck wrench against the side of the head stock. really hurt and scared the crap out of me.


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## bezalel2000 (Feb 17, 2012)

U gota Love all those safety devices.

It seams that every time they invent a better "idiot-proof" safety device, we manage to find a better class of idiot. :-\


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## mgbrv8 (Feb 17, 2012)

A while back I was the "Lucky" person in the shop to teach a safety course. The people in the course werent machineist they were engineers i being an engineer and raised as a Machinist by my tool and die maker father know that engineers can be difficult at times. Needless to say they thought they knew everything but in fact they knew nothing. There was this one guy that was so mechanically inept that it was unbelievable. He left the chuck key in and turn on the machine on four occasions now this is on a hardinge HLVH of all things. I was not allowed to throw him out. but I did duck tape the chuck key to his hand for the rest of the day. needless to say he was perturbed but he didn't leave the chuck key in for the rest of the day and he learned his lesson. 

David Hetrick


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## Boot (Feb 22, 2012)

Never leave a wrench or lead hammer on a miller table when using a facing cutter in the horizontal position. I launched a 5 lb. lead hammer to the ceiling in my younger days. You will learn the safty rules real quick.  Boot


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 22, 2012)

As many of you know I was trained as a Machinist By the USAF . At the time the school was at Aberdeen Proving ground MD.We shared the school building with the US Army And navy/Marine corps. The lathe lab was a shared class room there were several row of lathes and each service branch had there assigned section of the lab. Safety was a big thing at the beging of each class section no student was allowed to cross the yellow line until sleeves were rolled up safety glasses on and a safety given a student had to read the rules to the class. The chuck key rule was strictly enforced. A safety violation during a practical test was automatic test failure. 
The army took a different tact on the chuck key rule . someone had machined a giant aluminum chuck key IIRC it was about 2 foot long and the handle about the same length. Any violator had to carry the thing around for the rest of the day it did have a leather strap on it and I did see it being carried . 
I do like the duct tape to the hand Idea. 
Tin


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## steamer (Feb 22, 2012)

I've seent he chuck key on a chain hanging around the neck for a day Tin.


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## neptune769 (Feb 22, 2012)

I went to a vocational High School for machining. We were taught that once that chuck key goes in the chuck it's part of your hand until you remove it from the chuck. When I was a Junior a Freshman left the key in the chuck. The shop teacher caught him so he taped it to his hand. Of course he didn't run a machine like that. Wait it gets better. Another freshman did the same thing. So he got a key taped to his opposite hand. Then the teacher took the guys free hands and taped a single wood 2x4 between them. Now the Carpentry shop was at the other end of the school. The teacher sent the guys there to have the 2x4 cut in two. Needles to say they never left the key in the chuck again. At least while was there. :big:

Regards,
Dennis L.


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## rake60 (Feb 23, 2012)

The Shop Teacher story brings back memories.

When I'm using a hand file on a lathe, I would sometimes hold the file handle 
in my right hand and the front end of the file with my left hand.

*BAD PRACTICE!*

If that spinning chuck clips your left elbow you may be festering bone chips out
of it for the rest of your life.

If the shop teacher saw you doing that, he'd calmly ask you to shut the machine off.
Then he would rap your left elbow with his 12" scale. 
Then he'd say:

*"That had to hurt. Just imagine how much more it would have hurt if the chuck had hit you!
Don't be stupid in MY SHOP!"*

Rick


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## Ken I (Feb 24, 2012)

Some of those "old school" teachers had some tricks to make you remember.

I had a woodwork teacher that if he caught you "choking" a hammer (holding it near the head) - he would issue you with a hammer with a 5" handle - it was yours until he caught someone else doing it.

It became progressively harder to get rid of the damn thing as time went by... lesson learned.

I launched one chuck key early in my carreer - smacking it into the bed, ruining the key & throwing the headstock out of whack - I was made to fix it - long story I've told before - I haven't done it since.

Ken


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## pcw (Feb 25, 2012)

i remember back in school. chuck-keys didnt have the safety spring like modern day keys have. we HAD to place the key in special holder on the lathe otherwise the lathe wouldnt turn. was just quite simple pvc pipe with switch in it. worked very well.


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## Admiral_dk (Feb 25, 2012)

I had my formal machineshop training back in 1979 and the shop had rows of Myford lathes and two big German/Swiss ?) lathes with extremely powerful motors that would go from a dead stop to 3000 rpm i a 1/4 of a rotation and stop in the same distance.

Our teacher warned us about the chuck key : "I have warned ALL my student the last 30 years about the hazard of leaving the chuck key in the chuck and there has ALWAYS been at least one in each class that either didn't listen or forgot the warning ...!!!!... Well I hope that telling you this true story about a very unfortunate / fortunate student from the class of 1978 - a year ago now - he forgot the chuck key in the (brandname of the big machine), had it set to 3000 rpm's and pressed start, Because of the extreme acceleration on these machines, the chuck key left the chuck after a 1/4 of a turn and hit him straight in the forehead with only the handle being left on the outside of the scull !!!!.... I dialed 000 (911 back then in Denmark) and was told to leave the chuck key undisturbed and they would send an ambulance immediately .... Well he survived and will have a permanent brain damage and by some good fortune will be able to function on a disability pension for the rest of his life - Now can I get you ALL to promise me that you NEVER forget the chuck key in the chuck ??!!"

Well I never forgot the story, maybe partly because I was using one of the two big lathes and I hope that I never will forget the chuck key in the chuck.


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## digiex-chris (Mar 7, 2012)

another one I ran into (well, ran into me) yesterday is just as dangerous. I've got a relatively little lathe, takes some time to get up to any reasonable rpm, and I'm still in the "repeat things enough to make them a good habit" phase. I hit start, and something smacked me in the chest giving me a cut right through my tshirt. I thought it was the chuck, but no, it's right where I always put it, right under the on button. Looked at the chuck, but no my workpiece was still there. Looked around the shop, and found the culprit. I was setting up a squaring off job in my 4 jaw chuck, using a piece of 1/2" square by about 4" long tool steel blank as a parallel between the chuck face and the little block. I'd tapped the work down against it, so it didn't fall out when I let go of it. I'd meant to remove it, but it slipped my mind. Possibly a little more dangerous because it's not in the same brain space as the chuck key. Setting up a job like that is not something you do every time you turn the machine on.

I've also had parallels vibrate out from under the work in the milling vise and fall on the floor too. I have no doubt that would hurt getting caught and flung. I've started taping checklists to my machines that flop over the on button so I've gotta look at the checklist enough to lift it and hit the button. Since I'm the only one using the machines and I'm dedicated to making the safe practices second nature, this is working well for me.


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## duckman (Mar 12, 2012)

Its not as bad as a chuck key but I got distracted 1 day while tightening the collet in my Bridgeport, left the wrench on the draw bar, and when I brought the quill down to check the depth of cut got whacked on the top of my head with a 3/4" X 7/8" double box end wrench, only did that once, OUCH.


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## Sic Semper Tyrannis (Mar 12, 2012)

[size=10pt][size=10pt]_*YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.....*_[/size][/size]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajNdLT4exps[/ame]


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