# Concrete counter tops??



## lazylathe (Oct 14, 2011)

Hi All,

In my quest to construct a good solid workbench and to provide a solid and stable
footing for my lathe i have been thinking about concrete.

I know that John Hills from madmodder had a whole concrete bench constructed for him and it is pretty awesome!
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=5847.0

I have been tossing the idea around of building the bench from doubled up 2X4's and then boxing in the area that the lathe is going to occupy.
Using rebar as the support structure internally and also placing the mounting bolts for the lathe so that they are
embedded into the concrete.

I was wondering if anyone had any insights into this idea?
I can work with concrete so that is not an issue.
What kind of concrete should i consider? regular, self leveling, hydraulic etc...
Also would i use just plain concrete or a mix with sand and or gravel?

I am thinking if this could be done it would be a neat solution as i could pour the slab to any thickness.
The thicker it is the stronger it will be and the more dampening it would give to vibrations.

Anyone ever done this before??

Andrew


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## Jasonb (Oct 14, 2011)

> Also would i use just plain concrete or a mix with sand and or gravel?



Surely all concrete contains sand & gravel along with cement. Its the size and proportion of the aggreregate that need thinking about, I would have thought to keep the coarse aggregate smaller than general construction say 10mm or 3/8 and go with a stronger mix (higher cement content) like 1:2:4

Make sure your formwork is completely flat as when you turn it over any twist in teh form will be in the concrete for good. Or are you going to shutter the bottom then float & polish the exposed top?

J


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## Mainer (Oct 14, 2011)

Concrete is a mix of cement (the binding agent) and gravel (sand) and aggregate. For maximum strength you need the correct proportions of all three plus the correct amount of water. The less water you can use and still get a good mix, the better. A stiff mix will be stronger than a more soupy mix. For maximum strength let it cure in a humid environment for 28 days, although there are diminishing returns after about a week. And that's about all I remember about concrete from Engineering 232....

I think I would use regular cement and mix in the proper proportions of gravel and aggregate, or use bags of ready-mix, cement already mixed with gravel and aggregate -- just add water and stir! Arrange the form so you can strike off the surface by placing a 2x4 or similar across the form and pulling it across the surface. That will take care of the flatness. I would then trowel it after it has set up a bit to get a nice smooth surface. I see no need to use self-leveling, and isn't hydraulic cement a lot more expensive? You're not trying to plug a leak.


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 14, 2011)

I too have thought about a concrete bench top. 
If you pour in place the finishing to get a smooth surface is labor intensive. 
for a small bench I would make a mold with a smooth flat bottom 2 x 3 sides. . Oiled Masonite should work you can still place anchors or studs in place. then when cured flip and mount IMHO this will save lot of finishing time. 
I would probably put a few pieces of re bar in it or reinforcing wire. vibrate the mold to get the air out . 


> Also would i use just plain concrete or a mix with sand and or gravel?


HMM Portland cement =gray dry powder.
cement + sand and water = mortar 
cement +sand + gravel + water = concrete
For a bench top a couple bags of quick-crete gravel mix should do the trick. 
Here are links to the US Army Corp of Engineers concrete manuals probably more than you want or need to know but good references. 
http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-2-2000/entire.pdf

http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-1-2009/toc.htm
Tin


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## Mainer (Oct 14, 2011)

Keep in mind that concrete is very strong in compression, but weak in tension. Therefore, put your rebar toward what will be the bottom of the slab. When the slab tries to bend, above the neutral axis (the centerline) the concrete will be in compression, which is no problem. Below the neutral axis it's in tension, so it needs the strength of the rebar. Good support is also useful, of course.

Thickness depends on overall size, of course, but for what I would envision for a lathe bench top I'd use 2x4, for the sides of the form. That would give a 3 1/2" thick top, since a 2x4 is not 2"x4", etc. I like Tin's idea of casting the top upside down to get a smooth surface, but the "flip and mount" part might be a problem. That thing is going to be dern heavy. I would need about 3' x 5' x 3 1/2" for my long-bed South Bend bench lathe. That works out to 4 3/8 cubic feet of concrete, or around 350 pounds, I think. I guess that would be manageable.

Strips of cove molding along the inside edges of the form would give you a nicely rounded edge on the cast benchtop.


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 14, 2011)

if You put pipe flanges and pipe at the ends of the mold then support the pipe on strong horses it should not be a problem. I have been involved in flipping 40 foot long yacht molds weighing several tons. it can be done safely
remember sliding heavy stuff is easier than lifting.
tin


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## lazylathe (Oct 14, 2011)

Jasonb  said:
			
		

> Or are you going to shutter the bottom then float & polish the exposed top?
> 
> J



What does this mean?

I was planning on pouring the concrete mix into the hole i would prepare in the work bench.
The bottom would be a smooth flat board, supported from below by the main frame of the bench.
Same for the sides of the hole.
Smooth and float the top to get a level, flat surface that would be suitable for use as the top.
Otherwise it may be too heavy to flip and lift into position.

After it has cured i can always seal it and put a protective coat of top.
Or colour the mix and just seal it nicely.

Using some angle iron around the edges would also give a nice finished appearance and it would also
give me a nice flat surface to float to.
I can get it welded up to the correct dimensions and have some bolts welded onto the undersides
for retention in the concrete. Also gives you a super strong edge! ;D

Andrew


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 14, 2011)

> After it has cured i can always seal it and put a protective coat of top.
> Or colour the mix and just seal it nicely.


you will probably want to polish it first!!! That my friend is the time consuming part

http://www.bargainblade.com/concrete-countertop-polishing-kit-p-135.html?cPath=268_270


> Using some angle iron around the edges would also give a nice finished appearance and it would also
> give me a nice flat surface to float to.
> I can get it welded up to the correct dimensions and have some bolts welded onto the undersides
> for retention in the concrete. Also gives you a super strong edge!


yes have the bolts or studs welded in so they are at a 45 degree angle. 
tin


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 14, 2011)

At the start of world war 2 the ministry of armament or something like that wanted that many south bend amateur lathes should be used for war effort.
They printed a leaflet with recommendations for how to cast a concrete foundation,wait a month,align lathe and start making precision optical parts.
I have read it myself on one of the many South Bend fora and that started me down the graveyard stone road but I have been unable to find it again.
Let us try and find it.Very clear with not a lot of formulas etc.
Well worth the effort finding it.


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## lazylathe (Oct 14, 2011)

Hi Neils,

Your comment jogged something in my memory and i found this that i had read a long time ago!

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/concrete-lathe-bench-top-130222/

It is some excerpts from the pamphlet you mention.
The one member there, Paula actually has a whole write up about the bench she made from concrete!
I will find it and post a link!

Andrew

EDIT:
Here is the link to that post as well as a restoration of a South Bend lathe. Very long but a great read!!
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/not-monarch-but-useful-info-just-same-166280/


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 14, 2011)

Thank You Andrew

That was what I have read once.
Nobody seems to have noticed that Southbend and copies have another pair of flats on mid of underside of bed.
Probably from last machining process and if this is bolted down on concrete also we are in Hardinge stiffness country

Try and You will be amazed.
I made a post with photos 21 dec 2010 under Tools that show it but cannot link

Regards


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## lazylathe (Oct 14, 2011)

Here is the link the Neils post mentioned above:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=11934.msg129395#msg129395

Andrew


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## Catminer (Oct 14, 2011)

Hi Andrew;
 Check at Home Depot, they have a high strength concrete mix for just such things. I have seen it in London and found out it's not stocked at all stores. Rona lists the same mixture under Bomix brand.

 Peter


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## Mosey (Oct 14, 2011)

2 cents, and probably worth less, but here goes.
Concrete is a complex mixture, whose formula cannot be calculated. It is easy to make for guys that work with it regularly. Don't be fooled by the muddy boots and torn tee shirts, concrete masons really are crafts men. I suggest you find one around the neighborhood, buy some beer, and let them help you. The way to strength is to keep the water from evaporating from the fresh pour, buy wrapping it in plastic, or even putting in an admixture that helps the cure. Then soak it with more water to help the cure. Concrete can actually have its strength increased long after it is poured by adding water, but only a little. 

Also, I seem to remember that my used tool dealer always had extra cast-iron lathe bases around, and usually cheap. Why not try to find one?


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## ShedBoy (Oct 14, 2011)

I work in an underground environment and we make the strongest stuff you could imagine. It is used to hold in cable bolts which is a 13mm spring steel cable pushed into a hole drilled in the rock. A breather line is taped to the end which goes up to the top of the hole and hangs out the bottom then a fill pipe is pushed just inside the bottom of the hole (working above here) then the bottom sealed. We the half fill a mixing tub with water and start pouring low heat cement into it (low heat cement is needed to prevent cracking when curing. When the mix is like toothpaste (good rule of thumb is it needs to stick to your hand when upside down) it is pumped in through the fill pipe until it come out the breather pipe. After this has cured a plate and locking collet are put on and the plate is tighten against the rock with a hydraulic jack up to 15ton! It is nice and easy to work with as it is nearly self leveling. That is what I would use. I have seen rocks hanging of this stuff after blasting the size of a truck and the cable will snap before the grout lets go. I have mixed it at home in a bucket with a tile glue mixer. Good stuff. Once the surface is dry and you can't push a finger into it it doesn't hurt to spray more water on it. Concrete will set underwater and really hard.
Brock


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## lazylathe (Oct 14, 2011)

Hi Brock,

What is the stuff you use called?
You just mention "low heat cement"

And the biggest question is: Can you buy it in a store?

Andrew


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## ShedBoy (Oct 14, 2011)

Any cement supply place should be able to get some in if they don't already have it. Here is the brand we use
http://www.cockburncement.com.au/productinfo/range/brochures/Low Heat Brochure.pdf
Nothing fancy about it at all. If you use normal cement to make this style of mix it will get hot to the touch and then crack. I use to spray shotcrete and had to do a course on concrete and the most interesting thing was looking at cement under a microscope before and after adding water. Quite interesting when dry it looks like a smooth ball but when water is added it seems to grow spike all over it which lock in together with the others. I just quizzed an engineer here on the hardness of it and after 7 days it should be at 40mpa and after 28 days should be 50mpa. If you see the picture of Hiroshoma after being bombed the concrete arch thing still standing is set to 100mpa apparently and survived the bomb and earthquake. Cast iron is about 200mpa. All this is compression strength I think. No expert but it is dam strong stuff.
Brock


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## lazylathe (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks Brock, i will look into it!

I have also found this which is available locally and sets to 50mpa, so it should also work quite well!

http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/CountertopMix.asp

Andrew


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## lazylathe (Oct 14, 2011)

Okay, here is a first rough draft of what i would like the bench to look like.
Any ideas or input appreciated!!!







The space between the legs will be turned into storage space, most likely shelves with doors on the front.

This is not to any sort of scale!! Just a quick sketch to see what it would look like!
I was also thinking of using some metal tubes instead of cementing the mounting bolts in, this would allow for some "wiggle" room!

Andrew


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 15, 2011)

Hello Andrew

Looks rigth if You make the concrete 4 inch /100mm thick and put some pipes where bolts go in.


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## ShedBoy (Oct 15, 2011)

Looks good Andrew but I am not a fan of shelves, too hard to get to the back. I made some draws out of lined bread crates after getting sick of trying to get to the back of shelves. Just my 2 cents worth. Are you going to do a build log? I for one would like to see the concrete table build.
Brock


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## Jasonb (Oct 15, 2011)

One thing you need to understand is that as the thickness of teh item goes up you need to use larger aggregate to reduce the risk of shrinkage crack. 

The Low heat cement is just that cement no sand or larger aggregate and the use mentioned above is what we would refer to a grouting( not to be confused with tiling grout) and uses pure cement. When used in this way there is a high amount of cement and the "heat of hydration" will be high so the low heat stuff is used. When water is added to cement the chemical reaction creates heat.

The counter top mix is similar but does contain fine aggregate (sand) and other additives but is generally not used over 2" thick so again heat when setting and curing may cause issues.

As said the best way to cure concrete is to put the item under water once it has gone through it initial set, thats what we used to do when testing concrete, after casting the test cube and keeping in a humid enviroment after 24hrs the mould was struck and the cube of concrete placed in a special tank at a constant temp until it was taken out for testing be it 7 or 28day tests.

As for saying concrete cannot be designed well it can if you know how, its been a long time since I did any calculations but I was taught how to do it to obtain the desired final strength and then how to adjust this for things like workability(slump) without affecting the final strength.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the importance of vibrating the concrete once in the mould this drives any air bubbles to the surface and has a considerable affect on the overall strength of the finished item. It also has the added benifit of bringing the fat to the surface which makes getting a fine finish easier, for the same reason tapping or vibrating the sides of the mould will produce a finer surface finish.

J


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## Jasonb (Oct 15, 2011)

Just looked at the drawings again. Are you only casting two little slabs, one to go under each machine?

Cant see that you would gain much advantage with such a small, think bit of concrete.

J


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## John Hill (Oct 15, 2011)

I am very pleased with my concrete bench and I am sure a concrete benchtop would be great too.

For what it may be worth, my bench was cast in one piece, upside down on a steel plate. The top surface is very smooth.


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## lazylathe (Oct 15, 2011)

Okay the more i read this post the more confused i get.... ???

Some people are using a slab of granite to mount their machines on, not a granite table.
Would the concrete slab not have the same effect as the slab of granite?

Of course i am going to vibrate and tap the mould to release air bubbles and achieve a dense casting.
A lot of this stuff i take for granted as i know what to do.
Maybe i should do a write up with very fine detail??
I pour moulds at work every day and use vibrators and tapping to release air bubbles, it is something i do not really think about, just do.
And tenting and keeping the mould wet while drying is very important and will be done.
I cannot submerge it in a bath of water for 28 days, SWMBO would not find that very funny! :big:

I can of course see the advantage of having the whole bench cast out of concrete but then again i do not have the skill
to do that is my basement. And if someone else does it the bench will never make it down into the basement!

Please also take into consideration that the machines i am mounting are a small Myford ML7 and a Sieg SX2L mill.
Not huge pieces of equipment here.

Reading some of the comments i am heading in the right direction while others say i am heading down the wrong road...
Would it be better to just use a slab of granite?
This concrete thing seems to be getting a bit out of hand.

I would most likely want to cast the smaller bit for the mill and see what it comes out like.
Call it a test.
If it is works then the larger slab should also work.

Andrew


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## f350ca (Oct 15, 2011)

Andrew
Sounds like a very reasonable way to add mass to your machines. I think concrete with rebar and steel mesh would be much beter than a granite slab. As stated the rebar adds tensile strength to span the gaps between supports, granite wouldn't have this. 
I've cast a few concrete kitchen counters with great success. They have ground and polished tops but the casting process would be the same.
I generally use regular portland cement with granular B gravel if available, in winter I've used the premixed bags with equal results. On the counters I circle the perimeter with 3/8 rebar and tie 6 x 6 mesh to the rebar, you can get fibreglass chop from a redimix plant, comes in bags, this adds tensile strength to stop the micro cracks from forming as the cement ages, water reducer is another must, again available from the redimix plant, by adding this you cut the water required to hydrate the cement and again stop shrinkage. 
If you line your mould with plastic vapour barrier you'll get a glassy finish on the sides and bottom, flip the piece and your top is done.


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## lazylathe (Oct 15, 2011)

I think i am going to give it a try anyway and see what happens!

At the moment i am knee deep in house renovations....
SWMBO has ordered a walk in closet!
So after a lot of demolition and cleaning i have reframed and drywalled the new closet.
Now it needs to be mudded etc...
Then paint the whole room and install wood flooring.

Once she is happy then i have time to work on my bench! ;D
In the meantime i will work on the design and look into my options with concrete.

Andrew


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## ShedBoy (Oct 15, 2011)

Yes keeping the Commissioner of War and Finance happy is always a must but usually comes with great reward. Don't let the big words confuse it, concrete can be as basic as you want, most of the big words in the background are happening you don't need to worry about them. You can analyse any subject to death and make it sound more confusing than it actually is. I mentioned the grout idea because it is the most simple way we can do it with miners, who are not all rocket scientists, and still get consistent results at the level we want.

Hi John Hill, do you have any build photos of your bench? Is that a coolant drain around the outside? I really like the look of that table.

Brock


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## Ken I (Oct 15, 2011)

Just an idea - why not use those precast & prestressed concrete lintles side by side and screed over to finish.

2c     Ken


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## lazylathe (Oct 15, 2011)

Good idea Ken!

Just the position of the rebar strengtheners may be an issue.
I will have to go and have a look at them and take some measurements.

Drilling doles in that stuff is also usually a blasty blast time!!! ;D

Andrew


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## robcas631 (Oct 16, 2011)

Why not go to the junkyard or a steel shop and get a 1/2" piece of steel?


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## John Hill (Oct 16, 2011)

A concrete workbench is the only kind you can carry down into your basement in a bucket!

My early ideas on my concrete bench were to build the support for the concrete slab by setting hollow concrete blocks and filling them with wooden formwork for the top slab. I only had someone else make it when they made me a very good offer.

Did I mention that I really like my concrete bench? ;D ;D ;D


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## Lykle (Oct 17, 2011)

Nice idea, should work.
But be careful with the X2 mill.

I find that the short axis, Y axis?, has a handwheel that is uncomfortably close to the table top.
So I had to mount my X2 on a little pedestal to give my hands enough room around the handwheel.

And I think that adding wooden blocks to increase the height would negate solidness of the wonderfull concrete slab.

Lykle


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## lazylathe (Oct 17, 2011)

Lykle  said:
			
		

> Nice idea, should work.
> But be careful with the X2 mill.
> 
> I find that the short axis, Y axis?, has a handwheel that is uncomfortably close to the table top.
> ...



I had thought of that already! ;D
Mine is already mounted on a thicker board on the desk.
The form i am going to build will also be stepped so that this can be incorporated!

Thanks for reminding me though!!! ;D
When i go through this before i start pouring to ensure i have everything ready it will remind me!

Andrew


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## lazylathe (Oct 28, 2011)

Ken also mentioned precast concrete and got me thinking...

What about those precast concrete steps?
They are rated at about 6000psi and are reinforced as well.
Also pretty thick and heavy!

Will go to the garden centers this weekend and have a look!

Andrew


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 28, 2011)

Hello Andrew

A lathe needs additional mass and a very stiff support.
Stiff and strong is not the same.
Garden chair steel is not as strong as aircraft maraging steel but stiffness is the same.
If the granite/concrete thing cracks when leveling and aligning lathe You need a new lathe also.


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## lazylathe (Oct 28, 2011)

Most of the precast steps around here are 7 inches thick.
I seriously doubt that it would crack...

I know you have your lathe mounted on a large block of granite.
What would you recommend?
Apart from putting the lathe in the corner and forgetting about it. ;D

This discussion on mounting the lathe always seems to take some serious turns in opinions.

When i go and look at the flimsy steel benches some of the high end lathes come with it makes me wonder
why it is such a big deal.
I know it has to be strong, rigid and be able to handle having the lathe mounted to it and tightened down securely.

And then i look at some of the work done on lathes mounted to wooden benched and wonder if it is really required at all...

Andrew


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## Ken I (Oct 28, 2011)

Most of those lintels etc are pre-stressed as well - so they are always in compression (concrete is always assumed to have no tensile strength) - apart for catacysms - they don't crack.

Ken


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 28, 2011)

Hello Andrew

My recommendation is to start with the Myford.
You know it already and can judge if working has been improved being put on rock or concrete.
I have had a Myford myself and the next thing to decide is if You want to keep it original with a lot of belts and a clutch or put a VFD and a single ,short belt on.I am not in doubt if it was mine.
The old WW2 advisory about separating motor and lathe foundation is not valid today.
If I remove the belt and run my three phase,six pole motor at 100 Hertz there is absolutely no vibrations.
This means that the small resonances I sometimes see is from belt or lathe.
I like the feel and smell of granite but if starting over again I would pour concrete and incorporate foundation for motor and lathe as close together as possible in one block.Belt tension can be controlled once a year and if not OK loosen the four foot nuts ,apply some illegal violence and tighten the nuts again.Most years it will be OK.
If You have a dimension sketch of the Myford please show and I will sketch a suitable pedestal.


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## lazylathe (Oct 28, 2011)

Hi Neils,

Attached is a very bad sketch done in paint of the bolt hole dimensions.

The total length of the lathe is 1033mm and the total width is 350mm.
The motor is mounted to the back of the lathe and i will leave it that way.

VFD's would be nice but they are too expensive at the moment for me, maybe in the future.

I was thinking of building a string, heavy workbench from wood and have the concrete pedestal inside the bench top.
I placed a picture of an idea in this thread earlier i think.

Andrew


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 28, 2011)

Hello Andrew

A proposal for Myford concrete pedestal.
6 inch high and around 75 kg mass.
If going the one belt VFD road later glue an extra block on as shown picture 2


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 29, 2011)

Hello Andrew

If Your floor is concrete secure the block using 3 stiff legs.
If not make a foot like shown.
CAD is a drug easily empowering Your free will.


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## steamer (Oct 29, 2011)

In the modern ultra precision machine tool industry, epoxy granite and granite are regularly used as machine bases......not a table tops , but as bases...even part of the hydrostatic way design.

Why

Dollar for stiffness...you can't beat granite....and stuff that has set still for a couple of billion years usually doesn't move around much...

I don't see any issue at all with mounting a conventional machine tool on concrete, if done carefully, and with some taste. It will add a great deal of stiffness to the bed of the lathe, and add some damping as well.

Concrete doesn't like tension....so some wire mesh at the least will need to be used....but I don't think it will move around much after that.......

A three point mount is good as it is kinematically correct....

Let us know how you make out.

Dave


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## Niels Abildgaard (Oct 29, 2011)

Hello CAD addicted
Cannot help it.
Spantray used as mould


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## lazylathe (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi Niels,

Glad you are having some fun with this!! ;D
The centre point mount is interesting!

I am going to be making a bench similar to this one: (courtesy of shopguys pictures in response to my lathe bench thread)





I am also thinking of using threaded rod to tie it all together once it is glued and screwed together.
The top will be something thick and heavy with a lowered section for the reinforced concrete slab.


Andrew


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## lazylathe (Dec 11, 2011)

Long time no news in this area.... 

The renovations are completed for now...
Remove wall, rebuild wall in another area, drywall, mud, sand,Paint, laminate flooring for room and hallway, trim and install closet organiser.
Moved in all the furniture last night and it looks good!

Spent the day cleaning up the basement from all the wood dust and now i can finally resume work on the bench!!
The concrete is poured and has sat wet for a month. It is now out of the mould and dry.
I found a good deal on a concrete polisher and will hopefully be doing that quite soon.

Then i can finish off the top of the bench and build some shelves for storage.
Mount the slab on the bench and then the lathe.

If all this works then i will start on the bench for the South Bend lathe to live on.
And the one for the mill too...

Once all that is done i should be ready to make some chips!!!

Oh and paint the benches as well...
Have i ever told you how much i hate painting??? ;D

Andrew


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## Niels Abildgaard (Dec 12, 2011)

Hello Andrew

PICTURE 

Please?


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## mgbrv8 (Dec 12, 2011)

Very novel Idea

David


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## lazylathe (Dec 21, 2011)

I have almost finished the bench!
Screwed on the top and painted it tonight.
Will need another coat tomorrow.
It will be getting some shelves in the future to hold the chucks and various other bits.
They are easy to add later.






As for the concrete slab i have decided to do a bit more work on it.
I put in metal tubes where the bolts for the lathe are going to go through the top.
They are a bit long so i will build a surround around the top and pour in some self levelling cement
so that the bottom is nice and smooth.
Then it will get wet sanded with a diamond disc and the various pads until i get tired of it! ;D
It has some bumps in it from the plastic i used to line the mould but they do not bother me too much!
Here it is after being moved onto a trolley so it can be moved out of the way.






Hopefully get that done this weekend and during next week!
Really want to get the Myford mounted and running again.

Also bought myself a smallish shop crane for moving machinery and the concrete slab!
SWMBO is quite happy about this purchase!
Princess Auto has them on sale now!





Andrew


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## lazylathe (Dec 31, 2011)

Well it is done!!!
Almost...
So far it is bolted to the concrete slab without any shimming.
I want it to settle down before i start that process!
Also need to reconnect all the electrical and fire her up and listen to how she sounds on her new home.

Enough with the idle chatter, here are some pics!!!











I had previously painted the concrete with a sealer and then after it had dried gave it two coats of the 
same paint i used on the bench.
The concrete is sitting on an aluminium sheet.

Should be making some chips in the New Year!!!! ;D

Andrew


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## MarioM (Dec 31, 2011)

What is the correct way to insert a picture withing a post as the ones you have.......silly question?? scratch.gif


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## lazylathe (Dec 31, 2011)

Underneath the "Bold" etc are 6 more icons.
The third one is a picture, click it and you will
get [IMG] inserted in post.

You need to have a photobucket etc account.
When you hover your cursor over the picture 
you want to insert click on 'direct link'
The address for the picture is copied, just right
click between the square brackets and click paste.

Easy as pie! Try it in a post and click preview to see
if it worked!

Andrew


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## MarioM (Dec 31, 2011)

Andrew,

Thank you very much. It worked.

Mario


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## lazylathe (Jan 3, 2012)

Well it seems no one was really interested in the last few posts about the bench...

Anyway i will finish off this thread with the lathe mounted, shimmed and ready to go! ;D
It has been a fun experience, if a rather long and drawn out one...

Tried a few test cuts to see if it has made a difference and it really has!
No vibration in the bench or any that can be felt in the concrete itself.
So it is good at dampening vibrations i would presume!

Tried a parting cut and it went really easily, no squealing or complaining.
Then tried a general cut towards the headstock with the powerfeed engaged.
This was done on a bar i had done on the lathes previous mounting.
On the original bench it was quite rough and i could see the fine threading.
Without changing anything on the lathe the cut is now smooth and shiny!

All in all i am a happy camper and should be starting something simple pretty soon!

Anyway here are some pictures!











Andrew


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## woodnut (Jan 3, 2012)

Hi Andrew

Looks good. I have been lurking in the background watching your build. I think I just might have to try this out. 
I am redoing my work bench now. I quickly try out the Lathe on the new table but its still a bit bouncy. 
Looks like your slab is 4" thick? 

Nice job.

John


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## dsquire (Jan 3, 2012)

Andrew

That concrete bench looks like it is going to do exactly what you want it to do. Glad to hear that it seems to improve the quality of the cuts that you make with the lathe. 



> Well it seems no one was really interested in the last few posts about the bench.



There have been lots of interest in this Andrew. In the last few days with the holidays the number of posts in general have been down and sometimes there have been so few posts that I have even checked to make sure I was still connected to the internet. Some posts seem to invite a lot of comments and others a lot of traffic without comments. As long as the traffic numbers are up then you know people are reading and interested in your posts.

I look forward to more of your posts in 2012 and beyond Andrew. May it be a good year for you. :bow:

Cheers 

Don 2455​


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## GailInNM (Jan 3, 2012)

Andrew,
It sure looks like it is doing just what you intended. Nothing like a nice damped mass to cut down resonances in improve stability. I like it.
Gail in NM


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## Niels Abildgaard (Jan 4, 2012)

Hello Andrew and glad it worked well.
When You do the southbend anchor it down on the midle points under the bed and You will be surprised by the improvement as well.
Concerning interest in Your doings,I can say that I have waited and waited for Your results.
Nothing like being able to say I told You it will work.


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## Niels Abildgaard (Jan 4, 2012)

Hello Andrew

May I suggest another lathe improvement?
Looking at Your last picture it is evident that You will be better of without QCTP and that horrible tool overhang.
A mr Radford from NZ made a much better crosslide without compound and claimed it was the best thing that happened to his Myford.
I will suggest making a tangential tool as shown.It handles Carbide and HSS equally well and it is very little effort to resharpen.
If You care to measure the exact distance from top of compound slide to lathe centerline I will send You a sketch free of charge for Your Myford.


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## lazylathe (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi all,

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement!
It is greatly appreciated!
Any input from the professionals is highly valued by myself!
Still very new to all of this and every bit of info helps me out!

I had thought that the post had become a bit dull and boring and drawn out!
No big deal, my fault as i had kind of taken a 2 month hiatus whilst renovating! :-\

To answer a few questions:

It is 4 " thick and weighs close to 200 pounds.
This seems to cut down and vibrations and has improved stability drastically!!

Thanks Neils!
This was the tool holder i was interested in:
http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=17

Making my own may be a bit out of my reach for now, but i am willing to try

Thanks for the offer of a diagram! ;D
I will do my best to get an accurate measurement for you!

Andrew


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## Peter. (Jan 4, 2012)

A great improvement! 

It's true that concrete composition is quite critical for structural building purposes, but too many people over-complicate it for this kind of application. All you essentially require is a solid block to fix your machine to - doesn't even need to support it's own mass if it's on a bench like yours, all it has to do is hold itself together and withstand being drilled for fixings. Clearly, yours does that very well.


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## lazylathe (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks Peter!

It has a lattice of 1/2 inch rebar towards the bottom of the mass.
Should keep it in check! ;D

Andrew


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## mu38&Bg# (Jan 4, 2012)

The satisfaction of getting a machine running the way you think it should be is second to none. Congratulations!

There's nothing wrong with the tool post he has? The only thing I see, and can't say if it's a problem or not. If at all possible while machining keep the compound retracted so it doesn't overhang. I've had more problems with that, than QCTP.

I think the mass is the main reason larger machines are better for our hobby work. Sure some larger machines are actually quite a bit better than some smaller machines, but a lot of things come together to make nice parts.

I made a concrete column for a small CNC mill. I've been running it since '06.

Greg


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## arnoldb (Jan 5, 2012)

Good going Andrew Thm:; that block will stabilize the ML7 nicely. It should run nice and quiet as well. Mine is on a factory made cabinet, and while that is very nice, the cabinet does act like a kind of sound-box and magnifies the lathe's motor sound.

Nothing wrong with the QCTP on the top slide IMHO; like Greg said, just position the top slide to leave less overhang. Once you start to make chips on different parts of different material with with different tools, you'll really appreciate the QCTP for exactly what it is - a quick-change tool post. (BTW, you'll never have enough tool holders!)  I tend to adjust the topslide on the slightly "tight" side to eliminate free play on it - and I just use one of its screws to lock it down for heavy operations.

Kind regards, Arnold


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## lazylathe (Feb 8, 2012)

Thanks for all the help. info and responses!!!

I am still working away to complete the final touches on the bench!
This is my latest addition, a tool storage solution behind the lathe.
Freshly painted waiting for holes!






Now installed behind the lathe with some tooling!





When the new mill arrives and is set up i want to mill some holders for the QCTP holders.
They will be out of aluminium and i will screw them onto the face of the top.

Still trying to decide if i want to make some posts and mount all the change gears on it as well.
For now they just sit covered in a box.
I guess i could also have them on the side of the bench...

With the South Bend having more tooling available at better prices i do not foresee myself fully kitting out the Myford.
But who knows!!! ;D

Any ideas or comments welcomed!

Andrew


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## Niels Abildgaard (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello Andrew

Looks very nice indeed
You are fitting a spantray between lathe and concrete.
It is also possible to have lathe on concrete on spantray.
Then You can enjoy the nice polished surface.
More important is that it will then be smart to reduce length and width of concrete block and increase height.
Same amount of concrete will give even more stiffness between the bolt holes and that is what counts

Niels


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## krv3000 (Feb 9, 2012)

HI cumming a long nice


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