# Uh, Oh! How is is going down there?



## kcmillin (Jun 16, 2010)

I just got The Grizzly 10 x 22 g0602. (Oh yes, I am excited) It weighs in at a hefty 300 plus pounds as is.

Here it is awaiting the treacherous trip into the basement.






And it has to go here.













Any Ideas? This is more of a ladder than a staircase, and the lack of a landing is going to be troublesome. 

I am thinking about getting a chain hoist and connecting it to the rafters. It will have to go down in the vertical position.

Is it OK to hang the lathe from one end? Will I warp anything? 

I also have another concern about this lathe. 

It is missing the holes on the spindle to lock it in place for removal of the chuck.
There should be holes here, but their aint. 





I might be able to get a strap wrench on it. 

Has anybody encountered this before? What did you do?

Kel


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## b.lindsey (Jun 16, 2010)

Nice looking lathe Kel. I am almost thinking I would attach some 2"x6" rails to the stairway and carefully slide it down with a good rope on the top end, and maybe a helper too. Of course once you get it down, there is still the matter of lifting up to its new home, but less treacherous than navigating the stairs while carrying it at least.

Can't comment on the spindle...the specs show it is a threaded spindle and I am assuming the v-groove and clamp in the last pic are to keep the chuck from backing itself off the spindle nose. 

Bill


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## rcfreak177 (Jun 16, 2010)

Ha Ha Ha!

 I love the fact the lathe is new and you pulled it apart already, I did the same thing while my missus was yelling at me, I didn't have the courage to take mine inside the house but, Thats funny (in a good way).

 :big:


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## hopeless (Jun 16, 2010)

I have the Aussie version of that lathe and yep has 2 holes in the spindle . If you are game drill 2 1/4" holes and go for it only need to be 1/4" deep then put the 4 jaw tommybar end in the hole and use your 3 jaw key in the 3 jaw chuck and all is good
Pete


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## Lakc (Jun 16, 2010)

Welcome to home shop machining, where the first skill you need to learn is rigging. ;D
Eyebolt, through a suitable reinforcement in the attic, is how its generally raised and lowered. A little bit of lumber making a slide across the steps helps the lowering part.


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## Blogwitch (Jun 16, 2010)

I have noticed a few posts recently where people are recommending to put the lathe into back gear for chuck removal.

That is an absolutely great idea, if you want to make just plain blanks. That is the easiest way of removing teeth off gears that I have ever come across.

Back gear IS NOT for removing stuck chucks, it is for making the spindle revolve more slowly, if you didn't already know.

A few people may have got away with it, many thousands more haven't.

Bogs


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## mklotz (Jun 16, 2010)

What Bogs said...in spades.

Heat the chuck with a hot air gun and, while warm, apply some Kroil to the joint. Let this marinate for a day or so and then use a combination of a spindle crank and my banjo wrench to apply torque to the chuck without involving the expensive gears.


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## mu38&Bg# (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't know. The manual for my lathe recommends the back gear. I jumped on the end of a 3 foot breaker bar to get the chuck off when I bought the lathe. Of course there is a difference between a 1960's machine made for a machine shop and some of the import product being made today.


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## Blogwitch (Jun 16, 2010)

Greg,

They would say that, more sales of gears.

But really, I have forgotten the number of gear teeth I have had to repair for people that have gone the backgear route. It is an easy repair to bridge gear teeth with a couple of pegs, but if you can get away without the need to do it in the first place, all the better.

I am no angel, many years ago, I used to tempt fate by doing it that way, until one day I felt a rather hard slap against the side of my head, and the punishment of a weeks' swarf clean up stopped my bad habits.

A spotlessly clean, very lightly oiled nose thread usually prevents it from happening, and don't forget to check the chuck threads as well, as that is where most contamination comes from. It is just like washing your hands with clean soapy water and then drying them with an oily rag.

Bogs


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## mklotz (Jun 16, 2010)

Beating on the chuck wrench while it's in the chuck!!

I wouldn't do that even on my (pun alert) beater chucks.

Good engineering practice suggests that one decide on a methodology by considering how difficult/expensive it will be to recover if things go pear-shaped.

Give a thought to what's required to remove the spindle, remove the bull gear, buy/make and fit a new one, realign spindle and you may convince yourself that Bogs and my advice to err on the side of caution has some value.

Kroil is cheap. A spindle crank is easy to make and useful for more than chuck removal. A banjo wrench is a simple afternoon woodworking project.

It's your tool, your choice, of course. All Bogs and I are doing is offering some experience and a plea to think about it before applying brute force mechanic's techniques to a precision tool.


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## b.lindsey (Jun 16, 2010)

Bogs, you are right of course and I have modified my post accordingly. On those occasions where I have done it, it was with a circa 1970 Atlas with good strong gears and very moderate pressure on the teeth, not a shocking impact. Not that that makes it right, just explains why I have been fortunate perhaps. As has been pointed out, the best advice iiis to keep the spindle nose and chuck threads immaculately clean to avoid the issue to begin with. 

Bill


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## kcmillin (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks everyone for youe suggestions. 

Block and tackle will get it in the basement.

Marv, the spindle crank sounds like a real winner. However, can you clarify its construction and use? I need to lock the spindle somehow, and there does not seem to be any place, other than the gears and pulley, to grab on to.

Pete, I have thought about drilling the 1/4" holes required but Ime not sure if the spindle will get ruined, and there is verry little space to drill it. I think it might be hardened as well, Not sure though. 

How good, or bad of an Idea is it to drill the required holes?

Kel


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## mklotz (Jun 16, 2010)

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Marv, the spindle crank sounds like a real winner. However, can you clarify its construction and use? I need to lock the spindle somehow, and there does not seem to be any place, other than the gears and pulley, to grab on to.



See your post on chuck removal. The references are there.


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## Jasonb (Jun 16, 2010)

You may also want to think about removing the motor which I assume you have not as I can't see it on your kitchen floor, I did that on my 11x28 and it saves quite a bit of weight. You could also take the gear gaurd off and remove the change gears as well.

While the cover is off you may find that there is something on the other end of the spindle you can use to hold it while removing the chuck.

Jason


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## Blogwitch (Jun 16, 2010)

To get back to Kel's problem.

I personally would be tempted to fix the lathe onto a sheet of plywood or a couple of skids, and slide it down the stairs. Less damage would be caused if it got away from you.

Lower away with the heavy end towards you, so as the light end hits the floor at the bottom, it will be less stress on the lathe as the sheet levels itself out at the bottom. When down to the last steps, as the sheet reaches the bottom, just gently lower the heavy end down onto the next step until it sits on the floor.

It really would be a two man job to make it a safe exercise. Two ropes are always better than one.


Bogs


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## kcmillin (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks Marv, Jason, and Bogs (John) Not sure which you prefer.

Marv, thanks for the links to your thread on the spindle wrench. This will be more than just useful, but a necessity. 

Jason, I have thought about taking more off. I want to keep the taring apart to a minimum, so well see how the pulley system goes.

John, I am going to go with a combination of what you suggested with the skid, and a block and tackle to guarantee it doesn't get away from me. I may also construct a dolly of sorts to keep it off the ground and closer to the final height of the bench. I think this will minimize the amount of ibeuprofen I will be taking for my back. 

  I do have one concern about letting the lathe down light end first. I see what you are saying about stresses on the bed, but I am worried about the balance. I am just a little anxious about it at the moment, and want to take my time and do things as safely as possible.

Thanks again for all your help.

Kel


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## Blogwitch (Jun 16, 2010)

Kel,

John or Bogs, it doesn't matter, I have been called a lot worse. Normally, if I reply to someone personally or I know the person, it is John, but if someone I don't really know or a collective audience, Bogs.

In my younger days, I carried a stripped down mill/drill to an upstairs bedroom by myself. Definitely not recommended, in fact it was downright stupid on my part, but it had to be done, there was no other way open to me. I slung the parts by a webbing strap around the back of my neck to take the weight, and carried them up the stairs. When it was all over, I wondered why I had worried so much about it. I did it the same way when I moved it into my new outside shop.

You will find the same thing with your lathe, if you are not silly, like I was (but very lucky), it will go smooth as silk and you will end up kicking yourself for worrying so much. The castings are stronger than you think, and I have little doubt you will do it without any damage at all.

Just do it slowly and safely.

John


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## Dan Rowe (Jun 16, 2010)

Kel,
I like Bogs sugestion. Make sure that what you secure the end of the block and tackle or chain fall is up to the task. 

I had a full knee mill on a dolly pull out the D-rings of a moving van when it was going down the ramp. Lucky for me it jamed on the ramp and did not tip over. A third guy saw it happen and with the 3 of us we managed to recover with no injurys but it was a close call.

Dan


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## zeeprogrammer (Jun 16, 2010)

Get some help.
Last December I moved my horizontal band saw down to the basement.
Less than 200 pounds.
One step at a time.
It seemed do-able.

In January I had arthroscopic surgery on my knee for a torn meniscus.
I don't know if it was due to that...but I'm sure it didn't help any.


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## kcmillin (Jun 16, 2010)

Zee, I do plan on having 1 or 2 extra hands to help me. I would not try it alone (not again) I too brought my horizontal band saw down these same stairs by myself. Ouch, that one still hurts.

I got my 600 lb mill drill down in three sections, with two other people helping. We also just did it one stair at a time. But this lathe poses some extra challenges. 

I just pourchased a 1 ton chain hoist and am getting the anchor ready in the ceiling. It only has 10 feet of travel, and I think I need 11 or more to get it level. I may have to build a temporary landing about two steps from the bottom. This will be ok though. 2 feett from the basement floor will be a big relief from where it is right now.

Kel


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## Omnimill (Jun 17, 2010)

Very nice looking Lathe Kel, good luck with the move! Post some more pictures when it's in place and set up.

Vic.


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## Foozer (Jun 17, 2010)

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> I just purchased a 1 ton chain hoist and am getting the anchor ready in the ceiling.
> 
> Kel



Worked in a ship yard many years ago as a rigger. Rule!! if it falls let it fall! Instinct is to try and catch things. Repair damaged lathe, inconvenient, replace missing fingers, you get the idea. A few bucks and a call to the piano movers works for me now-a-days.

Robert


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## kcmillin (Jun 17, 2010)

Well, I did it. Me and a buddy got her down the stairs and onto the bench with very little trouble. 

Here are some pics, As you can see, the stairway is more of a hole, which actually made this easier, because we could lower it straight down. 

This is inside the attic. A half inch eye bolt through a 2x8 across 4 rafters.






And the eye hook and chain.





here she is just hangin out.









at the bottom.





and on the bench.





Thanks for all your help guys. 

Kel


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## Deanofid (Jun 17, 2010)

It's a beautiful sight, Kel. I'll bet you're happy!
I would be!

Dean


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## zeeprogrammer (Jun 17, 2010)

Very cool Kel.
Congratulations.


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## kcmillin (Jun 17, 2010)

Thanks Dean and Zee.

Yes I am very excited.

I guess you could say there has been a huge weight taken off my shoulders.:big: :big:

Now its time to get that darn 4-jaw off there and get to millin'

Kel


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## Deanofid (Jun 17, 2010)

Get to millin', Millin? Maybe with that lathe you can do some turnin' too!



Dean


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## kcmillin (Jun 18, 2010)

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Get to millin', Millin? Maybe with that lathe you can do some turnin' too!
> 
> 
> 
> Dean



Dean, Millin is a term I use to describe my hobby to those around me. If I need to make anything, no matter which tool I use, I say "I'LL MILL ONE UP". 

My motto is "Chillin' and Millin'" When I'm not millin' I'm chillin, and when I'm not chillin' I'm millin'. 

Like That. 

Kel


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## Blogwitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Kel,

Was it as ring puckering as you though it would be, or did it go smooth as silk?

We all tend to worry about doing jobs like that, and as I said in my previous post, once you had it all done, you found most of your worries were unfounded.

Now just get the twist out of the bed by spending a little time setting and levelling, and the machine should give you years of trouble free service.


John


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## kcmillin (Jun 18, 2010)

John, yes it did go pretty smooth. The hardest part was the first step, and preventing it from swinging out of control, and that went much better than expected. Once I had the motor off it was much more manageable. It only took two people to get it up on the bench. 

I have yet to purchase a machinists level to get her perfect. 

How important is it that the lathe is absolutley level? Wont it work the same if it is a little off. Or is there more to it than I realize?

Kel


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## Maryak (Jun 18, 2010)

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> I have yet to purchase a machinists level to get her perfect.



Kel,

Save yourself quite a few bucks. Try Rollie's Dad's Method - http://people.ne.mediaone.net/wasser/NEMES/RDMLatheAlignment.html

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob


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## kcmillin (Jun 18, 2010)

Bob, I cant get the link to work. I just get an error message. I would love to see the alternative to a machinists level.

Kel


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## Blogwitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Kel,

Getting the lathe level head to tailstock is desireable, but not super critical.

Getting the lathe level crossways, the same all along the bed is crucial to having an accurate machine. That is what I was on about when I mentioned getting the twist out of the bed. Even large industrial machines can have a twist on their bed, so mass really doesn't come into it.

The easy way to imagine the problem would be to put a centre in your spindle, and one in your tailstock, and see if they touch on their tips perfectly. Difficult to do as the tailstock is at the opposite end, but it would show the problem.

An engineers level would always be preferred, but if you only have a small home bubble level, anything is better than nothing, as long as you don't go turning it around when going along the bed, and try to mark it so that it sits in the same position across the bed in relation to the ways, it should give you a reasonable starting point, then when you do get to beg, borrow or steal a proper engineers level, to get it exact, you will find it very close.

I do recommend people buy a proper engineers level, I got a couple of mine second hand off eBay for a fraction of the cost of a new one, and they can be used for other things, not just for bed levelling.

John


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## Maryak (Jun 18, 2010)

Kel,

Sorry neither can I ;D

Try this www.neme-s.org/Rollie's_Dad's_Method.pdf 

Best Regards
Bob


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## kcmillin (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks Bob, that one did it.

John, by "twist" is that like the Wright Brothers airplane wing, or more like a banana?
This lath only has two mounting bolts, how would I shim say the right front up, or the left rear up with only two screws, would I try to shim one half of the mounting plate? Im not sure how tight to make it, I dont want to break my casting.

Kel


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## cidrontmg (Jun 18, 2010)

Maryak  said:
			
		

> Kel,
> 
> Sorry neither can I ;D
> 
> ...




This is an excellent method. Also theoretically correct. Thanks, Maryak!
 :bow:


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## New_Guy (Jun 18, 2010)

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> and on the bench.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



is that swarft piled up at the end of that bench


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## Deanofid (Jun 18, 2010)

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> My motto is "Chillin' and Millin'" When I'm not millin' I'm chillin, and when I'm not chillin' I'm millin'.
> Like That.



Sounds good to me, Kel!

The twist John is talking about like the Wright Bros. type you mentioned. Like when you wring a rag. 
Banana would be a bend.

Really, the lathe doesn't care about being level, as in square to the world. You can mount it to the wall and as 
long as the bed is not twisted, it will cut straight. Getting it square to the world makes setup on some 
things a lot easier, though, and if your bench and lathe are level, you're usually halfway there.

The twist in the bed usually involves just a few thousandths of shimming on diagonal corners of the lathe feet. 
Even with only two mounting holes, you will still be able to get things true by shimming under just the corners. 
When you cinch the fastener down, it will be able to move the bed in a
twisting motion. 

Dean


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## kcmillin (Jun 18, 2010)

New Guy, Yes, that is some swarf, about 3 years worth of the stuff. I should really get rid of it, should't I.

Dean, thanks for the explination. I think I need to flatten out my bench a little bit, there seems to be excess flex, and gaps are present when I cinch her down. 
I did the bar trick as described in Bob's link on this page. I had about 5 though out over 18 inches in the horizontal, and about 7 thou off in the vertical. I can pull on the top back of the lathe and watch the needle move on the indicator. As is, it seems like it will require much, much more than a few thou of shims, I believe my bench is at fault. 

Kel


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## Dan Rowe (Jun 19, 2010)

Maryak  said:
			
		

> Try this www.neme-s.org/Rollie's_Dad's_Method.pdf



Bob, 
Many thanks for posting that. Finally a method for Marine Engineers, I did a lot of lathe work on the ships and I really like having a method that does not involve a level. It seams to me that the tailstock alignment could be checked the same way.
Dan


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## Deanofid (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi Kel;



			
				kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Dean, thanks for the explination. I think I need to flatten out my bench a little bit, there seems to be excess flex, and gaps are present when I cinch her down.



Your bench, (any bench) can be a major player in the equation. I don't know how thick your bench is, or how well braced it is, but it's possible that where you have it cut out for the tool chests has made a weak spot and the top of the bench is actually pulling up to try to meet the lathe feet. If that's the case, you may have a hard time getting the head and tail aligned. Sorry Kel. Not trying to put a damper on your fun, really!

The bed on a lathe of this length is fairly rigid, though it will still definitely move when you put some torque on the mounting studs. If the lathe is stiffer than the bench top, it will play the devil with getting the lathe bed to twist the way you want in order to get head and tail how you need them.



> I did the bar trick as described in Bob's link on this page. I had about 5 though out over 18 inches in the horizontal, and about 7 thou off in the vertical. I can pull on the top back of the lathe and watch the needle move on the indicator. As is, it seems like it will require much, much more than a few thou of shims, I believe my bench is at fault.
> Kel



That way of doing it, 'Rollie's dad's method' is a really good way to get setup. I've used it a few times. It's nice to have a straight forward way to get this chore done. Guy Lautard has a similar method in one of his books. May be the exact same way. I'd have to look it up. Anyway, using that way to get set up will get you in working trim fairly quickly. 

Keep having fun! I like your new lathe.

Oh yeah. All that swarf... What a man! 

Dean


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## kcmillin (Jun 19, 2010)

Dean, yes my bench is a total pile. I made it before I knew I was going to put a big lath on it. The bolt on the tailstock end actually goes through the tool box, and the bench is resting on the box. The problem is, where the headstock is, the bench is 1/2 to 3/4 above the tail of the lathe. 

By playing with the torque of the mounting bolt I was able to get the horizontal to 1 though over 15 inches or so. (Which I believe to be suitable) But the vertical is out by 10 though in the same distance. The head is pointing down towards the tail.

I was thinking about putting a large peice of Max-Lam (engineered lumber) and putting it between the lathe and the bench. This (I hope) should stiffen up the works a little bit. It may not be level, but I hope to achieve alignment within 1 or 2 though over 18 inches. I will most likely never have to turn anything longer than a third of that distance.


			
				Deanofid  said:
			
		

> Oh yeah. All that swarf... What a man!
> 
> Dean



I happy to live in a world where we are not judged by the size of our shop, but by the quantity of our swarf pile. :big: :big:

Kel


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