# Model machines



## barnesrickw (Feb 22, 2015)

Anybody know a provider of scale model metalworking machines?  Other than PM Research please?


----------



## Jasonb (Feb 22, 2015)

Stuart Models

http://www.stuartmodels.com/products/set-of-castings


----------



## vederstein (Feb 22, 2015)

PM Research has model lathes, drill presses, etc.

http://www.pmmodelengines.com/product-category/machine-tools/machine-models/

...Ved


----------



## barnesrickw (Feb 22, 2015)

Thank you. Why are the Stuart models so pricey?  They do look very nice, but seem a bit expensive.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Feb 22, 2015)

barnesrickw said:


> Thank you. Why are the Stuart models so pricey?  They do look very nice, but seem a bit expensive.




If you have ever tried to have anything cast you would think they are cheap. I once wanted to get a casting made and foundries that will even help are few and far between. The ones that will help don't work for free. They are in the business of making money and for there help they deserve it. Most will make patterns or use one you have hours and hours into. It's a pain to have something cast no matter what process you choose. At the prices they charge it will most likely take years to break even. I'm just happy that someone is still willing to take it on. I would not be suprised if the casting kit goes by the wayside as more and more people build and buy CNC machines.


----------



## Jasonb (Feb 22, 2015)

Don't forget the Stuart kits have all the barstock, fixings, cut gears that you will need so not as bad as if the price was just for the castings. They are also larger than the PMR ones.


----------



## Walsheng (Feb 22, 2015)

Is there a US distributor for Stuart casting kits?

John


----------



## TorontoBuilder (Feb 22, 2015)

Walsheng said:


> Is there a US distributor for Stuart casting kits?
> 
> John



There used to be a US distributor for Stuart (Morrison Miniature) but IF I recall correctly they closed operations in 2010


----------



## Jasonb (Feb 22, 2015)

Minicastings should be able to get them for you as they are stuart dealers

http://www.minicastings.com/index.html


----------



## TorontoBuilder (Feb 22, 2015)

Jasonb said:


> Minicastings should be able to get them for you as they are stuart dealers
> 
> http://www.minicastings.com/index.html



Minicastings seems to be perennially out of stock on Stuart kits. If they are not a stocking distributor that places and ships large orders with Stuart their pricing cant be competitive.

Its like North America needs a buyers club to aggregate orders with Stuart


----------



## StephenB (Feb 22, 2015)

barnesrickw said:


> Thank you. Why are the Stuart models so pricey?  They do look very nice, but seem a bit expensive.


PM research has  aluminum castings. The Stuart models are cast iron, bronze and steel.


----------



## Walsheng (Feb 22, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Minicastings seems to be perennially out of stock on Stuart kits. If they are not a stocking distributor that places and ships large orders with Stuart their pricing cant be competitive.
> 
> Its like North America needs a buyers club to aggregate orders with Stuart



I found the same thing with Minicastings, nothing in stock and they don't list the complete line.  Coles' Power Models lists a bunch, but not all of the Stuart line and you need to call to find out if they have them in stock.
A couple of years ago I sent an e-mail to Stuarts asking if they have a distributor here or if they would ship here and did not get a response.
I was wondering if I missed someone in my searching.

John


----------



## barnesrickw (Feb 22, 2015)

I started reading the sizes and components of the Stuart models, and understand the cost difference now.  Does it see to any others that the UK supports hobbies with clubs, suppliers, etc more than in NA, or is it just me perception?


----------



## Swifty (Feb 22, 2015)

I think that model making was a big thing in the UK before it took off in the US, so there is more readily available in the UK. Maybe the much smaller land area in the UK led to more home hobby based pursuits, whereas in the US there is plenty to do outdoors. Just a few thoughts.

Paul.


----------



## TorontoBuilder (Feb 22, 2015)

barnesrickw said:


> I started reading the sizes and components of the Stuart models, and understand the cost difference now.  Does it see to any others that the UK supports hobbies with clubs, suppliers, etc more than in NA, or is it just me perception?



I think the UK had several factors in their favour, small geography, good  population density and many small foundries after the war along with accessible machine tools to build a strong model engineering base... but that seems to be eroding both sides of the atlantic


----------



## /// (Feb 22, 2015)

Model engineering in the UK was quite healthy long before the world wars. 'Model Engineer' magazine for example started way back in 1898!
I had always imagined that model engineering was borne during the industrial revolution, for three reasons: first were miniature prototypes commissioned (or even built) by engineering companies. These, being relatively portable, could be used as working examples for display to investors and politicians. This would be much more attractive than white lines on blue paper. 
The equivalent today is 3D CAD with motion and, obviously, 3D printing.
Second were the employee's of these engineering and transport companies that wanted a miniature version of the full size machines and engines that they built and operated.
Curly Lawrence is a perfect example of the latter, he worked for the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway... hence his pen-name of LBSC ;D
Third would have been the children of the above engineers and the general public, who would have been intrigued by these 'toy-like' miniatures.


----------



## TorontoBuilder (Feb 22, 2015)

/// said:


> Model engineering in the UK was quite healthy long before the world wars. 'Model Engineer' magazine for example started way back in 1898!
> I had always imagined that model engineering was borne during the industrial revolution, for three reasons: first were miniature prototypes commissioned (or even built) by engineering companies. These, being relatively portable, could be used as working examples for display to investors and politicians. This would be much more attractive than white lines on blue paper.
> The equivalent today is 3D CAD with motion and, obviously, 3D printing.
> Second were the employee's of these engineering and transport companies that wanted a miniature version of the full size machines and engines that they built and operated.
> ...



Simon, I didnt mean to imply didnt exist prior to ww2, just that post war conditions really favoured growth of the hobby...


----------



## /// (Feb 22, 2015)

Oh yeah sorry, I understood that, I wasn't disagreeing with the post war boom, I was only saying(in a long-winded way) that the _strong model engineering base_ was already there. I should have quoted that snippet to put my comment into context, apologies.


----------



## deverett (Feb 23, 2015)

The situation in the UK today as I see it is that steam still predominates in the model engineering world and the supply of castings is in the hands of 3 or 4 large companies.

In North America, although there are a few well known large companies, there are many more small 'one man band' suppliers of castings and these tend to be for the more popular internal combustion engines.

Sorry, just realised I had strayed off the original subject.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


----------



## The_Paso_Kid (Nov 18, 2016)

I've also been looking for miniature tools to build up a steam driven workshop, some of the toys produced by Weeden, Wilesco, AHI, and others seem to lack the fine details and realism. I've looked at the castings offered by PM Research, but I've been reluctant to purchase them as it would appear to be a great deal of work in cleaning up the castings and doing the machining on them. Always afraid of making a mistake and having to toss out an expensive casting. I prefer to work with bar stock, at least when I add something to my "gaining experience" pile at least I'm not out that much do to a mistake.

Anyone know of any plans for making a metalworking miniature lathe or other machine tools using bar stock?


----------



## goldstar31 (Nov 19, 2016)

L.C. Mason - the traction engine builder of old , published a book about building a small lathe. It was from bar stock.
Again, K C Hart AKA Martin Cleeve published in Model Engineer a small lathe.

Moving on to Cleeve, he published many articles which used bar stock. They appeared in Model Engineer from about 1953 and finally he published Screwcutting in the Lathe. Other articles appeared in Engineering in Miniature etc.

Recently, I described a Stent tool and cutter grinder which was both fabricated and welded and is part of my workshop.
Again, Cleeve published his Swing Tool which was fabricated. I have one and am building- slowly, the newer version which ostensibly is a kit from Hemingwaykits but my 'first' version( I have two Myfords) is coming from a Meehanite marking out table that cost me £3.

Basically, it is all a matter of keeping a library of articles which might be useful.

If you really want to go MAD, you should read up GadgetBuilder.com. However it is safe to say that you can build like Hopper has.
Again, I had the Universal Staking Tool from welded bits. You could go for Double Top and build the Bonelle grinder

What you must remember is that you cannot expect to always get answers from the internet and you really should buy the appropriate books on the topic that takes your fancy

Best wishes

Norman


----------



## The_Paso_Kid (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks Norman for the information. My grandfather has a decent collection to Live Steam Magazine and is still a subscriber, unfortunately we don't have an index so we have to go through the whole pile when we are looking for a project. He also purchases the Home Shop Machinist and Projects in Metal magazine at the newsstand only where there is a project in them that interests him, so we do not have a complete run of those two magazines. I've picked up some of the reprints of the old Model Engineer and Amateur Electrician. I'm also attempting to build up a full set of The Modelmaker magazine, the one published in the U.S. and not the similarly named one from the UK. I'm also working on building up a set of The Model Craftsman magazine, only the issues before it went to 100% railroading. I've also copied plans from old Popular Science and Popular Mechanix and other like magazines. We also have other books on steam engines, etc. Just sometimes an idea for a build comes around and you just cannot seem to find a set of plans for it.

George


----------

