# Attempting Gordon Nano



## creast (Apr 24, 2020)

After a reasonable success (at least a running engine) of the Clanford Clan, I decided that self flagellation was the key to getting through Covid19 crisis.
So , I have started to tackle the Nano 0.1 cc engine by Richard Gordon.
I am gobsmacked by the quality and intricacy of design produced by such a young enthusiast at the time.
I know this is going to be a demanding project with some tricky thread turning.
My equipment is probably as basic as the author had but my skills are less so.
However, first was the crankshaft and this was turned from EN24T which is pretty horrible to turn on my lathe but with care and some polishing to finish came out pretty well.
The crank pin was turned by the usual method of a split bush with 2.5 mm off centre bore.


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## creast (Apr 26, 2020)

Although I still have to machine the crank webs (I only just realised) I moved on to the cylinder.
This I found quite tricky. The threads are only 0.5mm pitch (50 tpi on my lathe) and I can only guess what a nightmare doing the internal threads will be.
To avoid two setups I decided to thread both ends in one go. This meant stopping the lathe and manually rotating the chuck to get close to the exhaust shoulder.
The inboard side could run out easier into the stock bar.
My thread turning isn't great and the mild steel rags like a *****. However I got a thread of sorts.
After doing this I saw a Youtube video by Joe Pieczynski where threads can be cut with reverse rotation away from a shoulder so I will definitely try this.
Next I need to make a port cutter. Sounds like fun???


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## creast (Apr 27, 2020)

Its funny how often a project ends up being more than just making the parts. Its all the things you have to make to achieve it!
So, I made my cutter, 4 blade as opposed to the authors 3 blade, from En24T and hardened and tempered it. It would be nice if it was a 2o tooth or so but there are limits to my abilities!!
Also I realised I would need to make some fixtures to hold the cylinder for the machining as I wasn't intending in following the author method of milling in the lathe.
So, a threaded bush to hold the cylinder in a rotary table and an angle jig for the drilling of the transfer ports.


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## creast (Apr 28, 2020)

Not much achieved today as other chores demanded attention.
The port cutting went well and I didn't break the cutter!! Being 0.8mm thick it is quite delicate!
I was extremely cautious on feeding the cutter in as it is quite easy for the cylinder to unscrew under the cutting forces but all went well.
Transfer ports now need to be drilled and the bore lapped.


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## creast (Apr 29, 2020)

Today I drilled the transfer ports using a jig at 45 deg. I confess I eyeballed the position although the offset distance was dialled in using a pointer from the datum edge.
Next is lapping which I normally do with a short split lap but I didn't have a suitable one this small so decided to make a different design.
Basically, two cylindrical rods milled to half diameter, soft soldered back and turned to the finished diameter for the job.
Centres and ferrules also made for keeping it together when separated by de-soldering and cleaning off the solder from the faces.
In use, one end is held in the chuck and the other in a dead centre, the ferrules keeping it together.
Paper shims are added to increase the diameter and being a long lap gives better control of diameter. Or the theory says!


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## awake (Apr 30, 2020)

Nice idea on that lap design!


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## creast (Apr 30, 2020)

awake said:


> Nice idea on that lap design!


Thanks Andy,
It is certainly easier to use and adjust compared to my previous efforts. 
I always find lapping is always difficult around the ports and always creates a tighter region, Not sure if anyone can advise?
As such, I resorted to a localised lapping tool to fine tune the final fit which is still a little tight but will address this later.


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## creast (Apr 30, 2020)

Today I made the piston and went through the process of lapping to fit the cylinder. machining was fairly straight forward apart from the conical top.
My lathe, Myford ML7, only swings 45 deg either way on the top slide so to part off at 10 deg meant some jiggery pokery.
Some impromptu clamping was in order! See pic.
Unfortunately I had approx 8 degree rather than 10 but I will run with that and make the contra piston to suit.
Next was the wrist pin. What a watch makers delight??  I mean, lightening the pin by drilling a 0.5mm hole thro' in silver steel!!
Oh well, I decided to have a go but I only had a 0.6 mm bit.
I used my pin chuck loosely held in the tailstock and fed it by hand and voila! I am amazed I didn't break it.
I do think this detail is a bit anal tho!!


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## awake (May 1, 2020)

Wait - there's a piston in that picture? I thought that was a speck of dust on the camera lens ...

I cannot imagine attempting anything that tiny!


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## creast (May 1, 2020)

awake said:


> Wait - there's a piston in that picture? I thought that was a speck of dust on the camera lens ...
> 
> I cannot imagine attempting anything that tiny!



Me neither!! Ha ha ha!
I must be going crazy!


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## awake (May 1, 2020)

Well, there's bad crazy, and then there's good crazy - I trust you are the latter!


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## creast (May 1, 2020)

awake said:


> Well, there's bad crazy, and then there's good crazy - I trust you are the latter!



I hope so.
This lock-down here means I can get away with more time in the 'man cave' since other household maintenance has been pretty much addressed already in the last few weeks. 
I hope you and family are keeping well in similar circumstances?
Rich


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## creast (May 1, 2020)

Today I was so involved in making parts I didn't take any pics of the methods I used.
The cylinder head was turned from 6082 Alum alloy and the fins/grooves cut with a custom parting tool I knocked up from an old jigsaw blade. 
These work great on aluminium but rubbish on steel.
I also used the reverse threading from a fixed stop and will not go back to the conventional method. It's just so easy to work to a fixed depth and no crashes!
I cheated on the compression screw by loctiting a threaded bush to commercial crew and then cross drill for the T bar.
Tomorrow I need to concentrate on an indexing mod to my old Myford., so a break from this watchmaking engine!


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## awake (May 1, 2020)

So far so good. Unfortunately, working at home has turned into "let's have lots and lots of virtual meetings, since it is so easy to do." 

Which is another way of saying that I have not been able to get out to the garage nearly often enough. I really hate it when my job gets in the way of my hobbies ...


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## awake (May 1, 2020)

Nice idea on the grooving tool, and great results!


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## creast (May 1, 2020)

awake said:


> So far so good. Unfortunately, working at home has turned into "let's have lots and lots of virtual meetings, since it is so easy to do."
> 
> Which is another way of saying that I have not been able to get out to the garage nearly often enough. I really hate it when my job gets in the way of my hobbies ...



My sympathies to you!
I am blessed by being retired but sometimes my hobbies wind up my good lady


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## creast (May 5, 2020)

Well, I am glad I took time off to make an indexing fixture for my ML7 which uses a 60 tooth gear on an expanding mandrel into the lathe spindle bore.
The attachment uses existing holes in the lathe to save desecrating the Myford 

Doing these small engines often requires transferring part machined parts from lathe to milling machine and I often find it very difficult to pick up features accurately. Not to mention my cheap Chinese DRO often goes AWOL!
So now, combined with my homemade milling attachment that fits to the cross slide, I can be certain I am machining cross holes or flats / hexagons with some confidence.
I just used it to create the serrations on the prop drive.


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## awake (May 5, 2020)

Very nice!


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## creast (May 6, 2020)

A little more progress.
To start on the crankcase, a cube of 21mm was hacked from 32mm dia 6082 Alum alloy bar and transferred to the 4 jaw for boring and threading.
Since the depth of thread is only 1.5mm the only way to thread is in reverse from a stop and going outwards (unless you have the luxury of a cnc lathe).
As per the article, a threaded madrel was also made to hole the crankcase during further machining operations.
Machining this part is quite involved with multiple setups involved.
One part I didn't like was machining the transfer ports into the threaded cylinder mounting thread as this rolls over the thread quite badly (well mine did) and required some eyeglass deburring.
I guess putting the ports in first may also have issues due to the nature of intermittent cuts.


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## awake (May 7, 2020)

When you say the thread is only 1.5mm deep, are you talking about the thread that is showing at the top in the last picture above? I'm thinking this is where the cylinder threads in - ?

In any case, continuing to enjoy this thread, and marveling at the teeny tiny work involved!


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## creast (May 7, 2020)

awake said:


> When you say the thread is only 1.5mm deep, are you talking about the thread that is showing at the top in the last picture above? I'm thinking this is where the cylinder threads in - ?
> 
> In any case, continuing to enjoy this thread, and marveling at the teeny tiny work involved!



Hi Andy,
The thread you mention is deeper and the one I referred to was for the rear crankcase plug.
The attached image shows what I mean.
Glad you are enjoying my torture .... LOL.
Rich


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## creast (May 8, 2020)

I have gone as far as I can with the crankcase which involved some rotary table work and milling the mountings plus pre-drill/slot drill of the mounting hole for the carburettor which has to be Loctited in place before the crankshaft bore can be machined through.
I did a trial assembly of parts so far.
I have read that some members here have had to pin the carb as it can work loose so I am prepared to do this later if required.
The carb body was machined from some alloy plate I had in my scrap box .  The threads are 8 & 10BA so I had to order taps and dies  in readiness.
BA threads are a real pain as they have extremely odd pitches so I can't see me single point turning the needle and jet!!


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## stevehuckss396 (May 8, 2020)

Holy smokes that's small.


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## rklopp (May 9, 2020)

Rich
How are you getting such a nice edge break on your parts? You do nice work! 
Best regards,
(another)Rich


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## creast (May 9, 2020)

rklopp said:


> Rich
> How are you getting such a nice edge break on your parts? You do nice work!
> Best regards,
> (another)Rich


Hi Rich,
That is indeed a compliment as I have always been in awe of your work! I saw you made three of these little demons and noted all your comments. Superb workmanship!
My Mill is an old Dore Westbury which isn't very rigid and has backlash in the table screws so getting a decent finish is difficult.
The fact is I cheat  . That is I dress my parts with 1000 grit wet and dry on a rigid rule and also brass wire brush using a 6" wheel on my bench grinder which does give just a subtle finish.
I just hope I manage to get this to run as I know they can be tricky and I do find lapping of these small cylinders a real trial.


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## rklopp (May 9, 2020)

Interesting - I was not aware there was such a thing as a brass ire wheel. Does it transfer brass to the aluminum? Your edge breaks look like what can be gotten with a fine Scotchbrite wheel, but on a micro scale. If I tried it, the crankcase would either be gouged or thrown across the room.


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## creast (May 9, 2020)

The wheel is very soft and gives less grab than a polisher mop/wheel which would have more chance flinging across the room.
There is only very slight transfer on aluminium but does give a slight brass sheen to steel, especially if its hot like on a fresh weld.
It's important to ensure pure brass bristles as a lot are steel with brass plating and are too rough. It does tend to shed wires as you use it so eye protection is a must.
I was recommended to try these wheels by a clock repairer.
Mine was from 








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## Bazzer (May 10, 2020)

creast said:


> So , I have started to tackle the Nano 0.1 cc engine by Richard Gordon.
> I am gobsmacked by the quality and intricacy of design produced by such a young enthusiast at the time.



Creast

I was lucky enough to work on a project professionally with Richard Gordon, he is a very clever chap, he works for Ricardo in Shoreham and setup Ricardo's Tokyo office, he is no mug.

We spoke about the Nano during some car journeys, but idle conversations tended to drift towards F1 hybrid power systems and VW emissions scandal as it was taking place at the same time as I was working with him.

Regards

Barrie


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## creast (May 10, 2020)

Bazzer said:


> Creast
> 
> I was lucky enough to work on a project professionally with Richard Gordon, he is a very clever chap, he works for Ricardo in Shoreham and setup Ricardo's Tokyo office, he is no mug.
> 
> ...



Thanks Barrie,
It's great to get some background info on an author as there seems to be little information on the internet about this talented guy.
I guess his early years of model engineering have lead him to a prestigious career in Engineering with him working for Ricardo.
Nice one!
Rich


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## creast (May 10, 2020)

I am still waiting for a 8 BA die for the jet so have concentrated on the con-rod.
I hate making these this small as I hardly ever do a good job of them and really need to get my act together to improve my techniques.
The basic form was hacked from 7075 alum alloy which is pretty tough stuff compared to 2014.
I resorted to free milling the ends by rotating the part on its bearing eyes against a cutter manually which is always nerve shredding (if not the fingers!). Need CNC!!
A simple fixture was used in the lathe to reduce the centre web.
Not the neatest of con-rods but I will run with it.
Now the next dilemma. The wrist pin should be free fit in the rod and a light press fit in the piston. Mine isn't!
So, since the pin has a hole through it (0.6mm) I have resorted to trying to expand the ends in-situ using two fine centre punches, one each side.
I am not sure how secure this is now.
A better way would be to make fine taper reamer (1.6mm dia)


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## creast (May 12, 2020)

The carb body is complete and Loctited into the crankcase which enabled me to drill and ream the 4mm through hole for the crankshaft and drill through the carb throat into the crankshaft to create the inlet port.
The latter concerned me as the drill burr can prevent the crankshaft from being removed or else scoring the bore, but the author didn't mention this.
Sure enough, a small scuff was made removing the crankshaft and I just hope this is not detrimental.
The needle valve was yet another tiny part to machine and on second attempt I managed to get a reasonable result.


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## rklopp (May 12, 2020)

The scuff is probably not an issue. I found that my Nano would run with the carb loose and wiggly, so any issues with the crankshaft being a close fit to its area around the inlet port seem not to be issues after all.


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## awake (May 12, 2020)

What is the material for the needle? Was the shaping entirely by cutting, or any filing / grinding involved? (I'm thinking I'd have to resort to the latter ...)


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## creast (May 12, 2020)

rklopp said:


> The scuff is probably not an issue. I found that my Nano would run with the carb loose and wiggly, so any issues with the crankshaft being a close fit to its area around the inlet port seem not to be issues after all.


Hi Rich,
Thanks for that. Less for me to worry about


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## creast (May 12, 2020)

awake said:


> What is the material for the needle? Was the shaping entirely by cutting, or any filing / grinding involved? (I'm thinking I'd have to resort to the latter ...)


Andy,
It was just from mild steel. I did consider something stronger/harder like silver steel as we call it in UK but tried the mild steel first and am happy with it.
The whole thing was single point turned and then die threaded using the tailstock to keep the die true. Its a very tiny thread (10 BA) and only 0.067" diameter. 
The part was held in a threaded bush near the nose of the thread to allow turning the 11 deg taper needle. The needle point was finally finished using wet and dry abrasive paper (600 grit then 1000 grit) which is glued to a steel rule.
You do need a very very strong magnifier to check!


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## Brian-in-Oz (May 13, 2020)

Hi Creast,
I have been following your build with great interest as I am attempting the same build for the same reason. Codiv 19 therapy.
My last engine build was a Forest Edwards Radial and the scale of the Gordon Nano is driving me nuts compared to the Edwards.Your build is looking great and you are a bit ahead of me but if I may I would like to pose a couple of questions you may be able to answer.
I am completely ignorant of  two stroke porting theory and have avoided two strokes like a plague for the best part of my 75 years but to me filing and extending the transfer port up to and through the cylinder flange could lead to a loss of sealing in relation to the cylinder. Obviously the plans are correct but an explanation would be a revelation for these ageing brain cells.
Also I notice from your photo of the crankcase that it appears thicker than the 10mm the plans show. If this is the (no pun intended) case is there a reason?
Cheers - stay safe and keep up the good work.
Regards Brian


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## creast (May 13, 2020)

Brian-in-Oz said:


> Hi Creast,
> I have been following your build with great interest as I am attempting the same build for the same reason. Codiv 19 therapy.
> My last engine build was a Forest Edwards Radial and the scale of the Gordon Nano is driving me nuts compared to the Edwards.Your build is looking great and you are a bit ahead.....................


Hi Brian,
Nice to meet you 
This is my second 2-stroke and my first was the Clanford Clan 0.26cc which was a challenge in it's own right but this is leagues ahead in frustration levels!
I have pondered over building the Edwards radial and admire anyone who has the patience to build one!
Personally I haven't bothered trying to file the transfer ports as I believe this is a bit extreme and I do not possess any needle files that small.
Many other models don't even bother with angled drillings but hey.. this is the design given.
Rklopp  may have better input on this if he is reading this?
I measured the crankcase and it is indeed oversize reading 10.6mm  which may explain the rather snug fit of the carburettor to the case.
Not sure how I managed that but all things being equal it shouldn't affect the end result so I won't be re-making it (grin).
Are you doing a build log?
Best regards and good luck with the build
Rich


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## Brian-in-Oz (May 14, 2020)

creast said:


> Hi Brian,
> Nice to meet you
> This is my second 2-stroke and my first was the Clanford Clan 0.26cc which was a challenge in it's own right but this is leagues ahead in frustration levels!
> I have pondered over building the Edwards radial and admire anyone who has the patience to build one!
> ...


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## Brian-in-Oz (May 14, 2020)

Hi Rich,
thank you for your reply. I have taken some photo's of my build but did not want to post here and hi-jack your forum.
I think I might give a miss to filing the transfer ports as I am worried I might do more harm than good. I was into my build before you started your forum and interestingly used the same approach as you did to perform some functions. e.g. making a tool from a hacksaw blade to cut the barrel fins but used a different approach on the conrod. I cut the relief on the mill and made made mandrels from silver steel the size of the big and little end with spigots to neatly fit in the bearing holes and hardened the silver steel. This formed a hardened guide to carefully file around and form the outer diameter of the big and little end. The end result turned out fine. I am not a quick worker and seem to spend more time thinking and fiddling than machining but hey, it keeps me off the streets.
I hope to get a bit more done over the weekend.

Cheers Brian


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## creast (May 14, 2020)

Brian-in-Oz said:


> Hi Rich,
> thank you for your reply. I have taken some photo's of my build but did not want to post here and hi-jack your forum.
> I think I might give a miss to filing the transfer ports as I am worried I might do more harm than good. I was into my build before you started your forum and interestingly used the same approach as you did to perform some functions. e.g. making a tool from a hacksaw blade to cut the barrel fins but used a different approach on the conrod. I cut the relief on the mill and made made mandrels from silver steel the size of the big and little end with spigots to neatly fit in the bearing holes and hardened the silver steel. This formed a hardened guide to carefully file around and form the outer diameter of the big and little end. The end result turned out fine. I am not a quick worker and seem to spend more time thinking and fiddling than machining but hey, it keeps me off the streets.
> I hope to get a bit more done over the weekend.
> ...



Hi Brian,
Please don't let my post put you off doing one too. In fact it think it would be beneficial to everyone considering building a Nano including me too!
I seem to have spent a lot of time making jigs, fixtures etc just to try to achieve the actual machining of these tiny parts and the times I have dropped a part and spent an age trying to find it has been endless!
Please post, I would be most intrigued to see  
Cheers
Rich


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## creast (May 16, 2020)

Well, the engine is complete but alas no sounds of life at all :-(
I tried flicking, RKlopps method with a rubber tube on the spinner which is much easier but still not a pop.
I even resorted to using a starter but coupled with rubber tubing which slips if hydraulic lock occurs. This gave a slight crackle at speed but nothing substantial.
The fuel I have is way old but stored in a good sealed container but I wanted to eliminate the fuel so mounted the Clanford Clan on the bench and sure enough she started and ran .
I can only guess my compression is not quite up to scratch which means another piston to make as I would expect the engine to at least show some life on priming only irrespective of any other timing/carburation problems.
Compression seemed good to me for such a small motor.
So it may be while before I am back here otherwise it may be just a failure ornament!


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## awake (May 16, 2020)

It looks good! I am confident that you will get it working!


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## Tim1974 (May 17, 2020)

Hang in there don’t give up


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## Peter Twissell (May 17, 2020)

What fuel mix are you using?
An engine this small has a large surface area in the combustion chamber, relative to the volume of the compressed air and fuel charge.
A lot of the heat of compression is lost into the cylinder and head, making it difficult to ignite the fuel and air.
It may start more readily with more ether in the fuel, or by priming with ether ("easy start" or similar)..
Pre-heating the head may also help.


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## creast (May 18, 2020)

Peter Twissell said:


> What fuel mix are you using?
> An engine this small has a large surface area in the combustion chamber, relative to the volume of the compressed air and fuel charge.
> A lot of the heat of compression is lost into the cylinder and head, making it difficult to ignite the fuel and air.
> It may start more readily with more ether in the fuel, or by priming with ether ("easy start" or similar)..
> Pre-heating the head may also help.



Hi Peter,
The mix I am using is 30% Ether, 30% Castor, 38% Kerosene and 2% amyl nitrate.
I would have preferred 35% Ether mix but getting hold of it is tricky as most suppliers will only allow collection and none are near. It's also a stupid price compared to that at shows from the dealer stands.
The thing is, the Clan which is 0.26cc started ok on this mix. I know we are talking over twice the capacity but I hoped for a more encouraging response. 
I tried heating the head to no avail. I also made yet another piston which was slightly tight and took some easing in but no luck, perhaps more crackles when driven by a safe starter.
I will get a can of "Easy Start" for future trials.
Thanks for your input
Rich


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## josodl1953 (May 25, 2020)

Just a thought.. did you check if there is enough crankcase pressure for scavenging? There is only a very narrow rim that takes care of the sealing between the intake hole and the crankcase.



If there is a leak ,a scratch or whatever in this rim you may lose too much pressure to push the fresh mixture upward. To check, put the piston at TDC, put a few drops of fuel in the intake  and move the piston downwards.
If any bubbles appear, there is a sealing problem. If so, all is not lost. You can always enlarge the crankshaft bearing 
and put a brass or bronze bush in it ( Loctite) but it will be a fiddly operation with those small dimensions.


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## creast (May 25, 2020)

josodl1953 said:


> Just a thought.. did you check if there is enough crankcase pressure for scavenging? There is only a very narrow rim that takes care of the sealing between the intake hole and the crankcase.View attachment 116590
> 
> If there is a leak ,a scratch or whatever in this rim you may lose too much pressure to push the fresh mixture upward. To check, put the piston at TDC, put a few drops of fuel in the intake  and move the piston downwards.
> If any bubbles appear, there is a sealing problem. If so, all is not lost. You can always enlarge the crankshaft bearing
> and put a brass or bronze bush in it ( Loctite) but it will be a fiddly operation with those small dimensions.



Hi, thanks for your reply.
I don't think this is a problem and I refer you to RKlopp's comments earlier about my concerns with a small gouge from the crank drilling operation and his comments about loose carburettors etc, and he has built three engines and did get them running (jealous  )
This wouldn't explain the inability to fire on prime only, i.e a short brrrurrp. 
Yes I would be concerned if not running from the carb but at least firing on priming should occur so I am not convinced.
I personally think it's down to the quality of fit of the piston to the cylinder which I obviously haven't mastered and I have tried allsorts.
So far I have made 2 cylinders, 4 pistons and 3 conrods and am now on piston 5 after re-lapping the cylinder to improve finish.
I am not sure if I will carry on if no_5 doesn't work!!!
I have made pistons slightly tight before and just worked them in the cylinder with oil to bed them in but no luck.
It does worry me in using this method in just how long the engines would work anyway as they seem to bed in really quickly.
Any guidance is always welcomed.
Regards
Rich


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## minh-thanh (May 25, 2020)

When the piston goes to TDC, does the engine keep compressing for a few seconds? (If the piston and cylinder are a little tight at TDC, you push the propeller slightly, it will return to BDC)
A really small and nice engine  , Hope you make it run !


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## creast (May 26, 2020)

Just a quick update.
Thanks to all with their encouragement and helpful hints. I am still progressing with the re-lapped cylinder and new piston but after installing the con-rod and actually achieving a press fit of the wrist pin I found the piston still needed a little lapping and I inadvertently over stressed the little end so now it's back making another rod!
_In reply to minh-thanh,_ the compression previously seemed OK to me but at this scale it is very difficult to judge but it did bounce back and also made a nice compression plopping noise on flicking.
Another note, I couldn't get true 'Easy Start' so tried "Holts Cold Start".
For reference... don't bother with this stuff as it doesn't work even though it does smell of Ether and so raised my hopes.
I tried it on my DC Spitfire engine, which is a pig to start, as a confirmation test and no luck at all but my normal fuel worked fine.
Maybe will try to get the better stuff or, if lucky, some pure Ether ( which I doubt).


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## sniffipn (May 27, 2020)

250ml-Diethyl-Ether


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## Peter Twissell (May 27, 2020)

£40!


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## creast (May 27, 2020)

Peter Twissell said:


> £40!


My thoughts exactly!
Southern Modelcraft  do 500ml for £7   Southern Modelcraft
I am hoping a show comes up this year to be able to get either high ether fuel or the Ether itself.


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## KenC (May 27, 2020)

I am not convinced that piston seal is your problem. I too built the 0.24cc Clan and the piston fit is so soft that I can turn it over and the piston just stays at top dead centre. Despite the poor piston seal it starts easily and turns a 5x3 at 10000rpm. The things that occur to me are to look for crankcase leaks, and to check the carb and fuel system dimensions. When you block the carb and flick the prop, does the engine suck fuel along the fuel tube. And finally these very little engines love ether and will happily run on a mixture of just ether and oil, so get some ether and give a 50/50 mixture a go. And finally finally, you did drill the intake hole in the crankshaft in the correct orientation didn't you? To check just try to start the engine backwards. Don't ask how I know, but I did have to make a second (correct) crank for my Suzor "Etheromaine" diesel. If your Nano runs backwards, you will know why.
Good luck
Ken


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## creast (May 27, 2020)

KenC said:


> I am not convinced that piston seal is your problem. I too built the 0.24cc Clan and the piston fit is so soft that I can turn it over and the piston just stays at top dead centre. Despite the poor piston seal it starts easily and turns a 5x3 at 10000rpm. The things that occur to me are to look for crankcase leaks, and to check the carb and fuel system dimensions. When you block the carb and flick the prop, does the engine suck fuel along the fuel tube. And finally these very little engines love ether and will happily run on a mixture of just ether and oil, so get some ether and give a 50/50 mixture a go. And finally finally, you did drill the intake hole in the crankshaft in the correct orientation didn't you? To check just try to start the engine backwards. Don't ask how I know, but I did have to make a second (correct) crank for my Suzor "Etheromaine" diesel. If your Nano runs backwards, you will know why.
> Good luck
> Ken


Thanks Ken,
I will double check everything as advised. 
The Nano doesn't seem to be as easy to coax as the "Clan" that's for sure.
Rich


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## KenC (May 28, 2020)

Don't tempt me! After building an own-design 0.15cc diesel and then a Weaver scaled down to 0.125cc I swore I would never again build any more really tiny diesel engines. So 18 years later I built a 0.24cc Clan! If I wait a other 18 years to build a Nano I will by then be 98 and I doubt it will be high priority! Picture of 0.125cc Weevil [scaled down 1cc Weaver].
Ken


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## creast (May 28, 2020)

KenC said:


> Don't tempt me! After building an own-design 0.15cc diesel and then a Weaver scaled down to 0.125cc I swore I would never again build any more really tiny diesel engines. So 18 years later I built a 0.24cc Clan! If I wait a other 18 years to build a Nano I will by then be 98 and I doubt it will be high priority! Picture of 0.125cc Weevil [scaled down 1cc Weaver].
> Ken


Hi Ken,
Well, I swear for starting this too.  I am getting a bit bored with unsuccessful results so far but I will stick at it a while yet! 
You obviously have great experience on small engines, any guidance would be gratefully received.
The Weevil looks cute, very similar to the Clan in format
Cheers
Rich


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## Mechanicboy (May 28, 2020)

Too little ether for a tiny model diesel engine. Use this formula with high ether as here.. 
Kerosene - 27.5%, Ether - 40%,  Castor Oil - 30%, Dope - 2.5%.

0,1 ccm is not easy to keep tight in compression, The important things to achieve when using this combination is that the bore should be tapered, wider below the exhaust ports. As a rule of thumb, the taper should be in the order of 0.0015" to 0.002" per inch of working stroke, but it's not that critical. *In actual fact, it's hard to produce a fully parallel bore*! So this set-up is ideal for beginners.  Read this further  Cylinder/piston Material Selection for Model Engines and the other about cylinder lapping  How To Make and Use Cylinder Hones


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## Mechanicboy (May 28, 2020)

creast said:


> Hi, thanks for your reply.
> I don't think this is a problem and I refer you to RKlopp's comments earlier about my concerns with a small gouge from the crank drilling operation and his comments about loose carburettors etc, and he has built three engines and did get them running (jealous  )
> This wouldn't explain the inability to fire on prime only, i.e a short brrrurrp.
> Yes I would be concerned if not running from the carb but at least firing on priming should occur so I am not convinced.
> ...



Without contrapiston, you can hear the pressure from crankcase with a sound as "poow" or you can see the fog of fuel out of cylinder. If there is not pressure in crancase, make it tight between crankshaft and crankcase with a new bearing sleeve of bronce into the crankcase, but rotate free.


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## rklopp (May 30, 2020)

Creast
You might want to take a look at the carburetor throat area. I built two of my three Nanos according to Gordon's plans for the spraybar and venturi, except I forget whether I modified the length of the portion that threads mostly across the throat. I built one with a more conventional spraybar and needle that extends all the way across the throat and out the other side. All three engines have run. On the one with the full-length spraybar, the carburetor bore is 0.094, with is per Gordon's plans, whereas the spraybar is 0.070" diameter. I have the spraybar hole aimed at the narrowest part of the passage, that is, perpendicular to the throat bore.

I recall struggling like you are to get the engines to run, and found I had better control over the venturi throat area using a full-length spraybar.


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## creast (May 30, 2020)

rklopp said:


> Creast
> You might want to take a look at the carburetor throat area. I built two of my three Nanos according to Gordon's plans for the spraybar and venturi, except I forget whether I modified the length of the portion that threads mostly across the throat. I built one with a more conventional spraybar and needle that extends all the way across the throat and out the other side. All three engines have run. On the one with the full-length spraybar, the carburetor bore is 0.094, with is per Gordon's plans, whereas the spraybar is 0.070" diameter. I have the spraybar hole aimed at the narrowest part of the passage, that is, perpendicular to the throat bore.
> 
> I recall struggling like you are to get the engines to run, and found I had better control over the venturi throat area using a full-length spraybar.
> ...


Thanks for that. I am suspicious of my jet to needle alignment plus I also made the screw slightly short so I was going to re-make the parts.
Perhaps I will try the conventional spraybar solution you suggest.
Can you tell me if you used high Ether percentage fuel?
 If I really need that then its going to be a wait to get some or pay over top for some to try. Currently 35% Ether fuel available by post is £15 / litre but it's £11 courier charge!


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## Mechanicboy (May 30, 2020)

creast said:


> Can you tell me if you used high Ether percentage fuel?



High ether percentage = increased cetane number in fuel (better auto ignition). It means the tiny model diesel engine make it easier to start up and run.  Hence the tiny model diesel engine do not generate so much heat of compression as the large model diesel engine can do it when starting the tiny model diesel engine.  Here are the article about Nano 0,1 cc where it's wrote here: "*Also, the fuel for mini diesels needs a lot of ether - as high as 50% by volume". *in this link Building The "Nano" Miniture IC CI Model Engine

You can get the ether from John Deere start fluid, remove the propelant gas before empty ether in the sealed bootle to later use to example mix own fuel.


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## rklopp (May 30, 2020)

I think 35% ether ought to make it go if all else is right, but it can't hurt to kick in extra. I vaguely recall adding extra in the form of Napa starting fluid. Alas, I did a bad job with notes. I recall being quite frustrated until I dared to try a weak, homemade electric starter. I tried the spring in the plans, but all that did was knock the carburetors loose and mark up the propellers. I set the engines aside for several months before I tried the electric motor, which I swiped out of some toy. My motor is weak enough that it cannot overcome a hydro-lock, which helps protect the conrod. I also recall needing less contrapiston compression than I though would be needed. Good luck! You'll get there.


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## creast (May 30, 2020)

Mechanicboy said:


> High ether percentage = increased cetane number in fuel (better auto ignition). It means the tiny model diesel engine make it easier to start up and run.  Hence the tiny model diesel engine do not generate so much heat of compression as the large model diesel engine can do it when starting the tiny model diesel engine.  Here are the article about Nano 0,1 cc where it's wrote here: "*Also, the fuel for mini diesels needs a lot of ether - as high as 50% by volume". *in this link Building The "Nano" Miniture IC CI Model Engine
> 
> You can get the ether from John Deere start fluid, remove the propelant gas before empty ether in the sealed bootle to later use to example mix own fuel.



Thanks Jens,
It does appear that in one way or another I need more Ether than I have in the present fuel so the search is on for either better fuel, Ether or Ether via starting fluid.
The John Deere fluid looks ideal at 80% but difficult to get here.
I will endeavour to find a solutio,
Many thanks for your input
Rich


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## creast (May 30, 2020)

rklopp said:


> I think 35% ether ought to make it go if all else is right, but it can't hurt to kick in extra. I vaguely recall adding extra in the form of Napa starting fluid. Alas, I did a bad job with notes. I recall being quite frustrated until I dared to try a weak, homemade electric starter. I tried the spring in the plans, but all that did was knock the carburetors loose and mark up the propellers. I set the engines aside for several months before I tried the electric motor, which I swiped out of some toy. My motor is weak enough that it cannot overcome a hydro-lock, which helps protect the conrod. I also recall needing less contrapiston compression than I though would be needed. Good luck! You'll get there.



Hi Rich,
I too have resorted to using my starter with a rubber tube connected which slips if there is lockup but on this last re-build I am holding back until I have better fuel, one way or another.
I have almost finished the revised spraybar which is rather 'twee' being the 0.070" diameter you quoted. I have resorted to bonding a 0.027" dia sewing needle into the adjuster and hope my arrangement works ok.
Thanks for your assistance and encouragement
Rich


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## Richard Hed (May 31, 2020)

creast said:


> Thanks for that. I am suspicious of my jet to needle alignment plus I also made the screw slightly short so I was going to re-make the parts.
> Perhaps I will try the conventional spraybar solution you suggest.
> Can you tell me if you used high Ether percentage fuel?
> If I really need that then its going to be a wait to get some or pay over top for some to try. Currently 35% Ether fuel available by post is £15 / litre but it's £11 courier charge!


Can't you just buy ether?  and add it?


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## Mechanicboy (May 31, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> Can't you just buy ether?  and add it?



Add more ether can make oil percentage less in fuel who are not good for the engine. Best to mix new fuel.


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## creast (May 31, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> Can't you just buy ether?  and add it?


That's the problem... buying it.
Ether is a controlled chemical and is very difficult to buy here in UK (and most of western world). 
A previous post linked to an Ebay shop offer but £40 for 250ml is way too steep.
Even buying fuel ready mixed is a problem here. You buy glow fuel no problem but 'diesel' is a different matter. Most suppliers only allow collection and will not courier Ether based fuels.
Rich


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## creast (May 31, 2020)

Mechanicboy said:


> Add more ether can make oil percentage less in fuel who are not good for the engine. Best to mix new fuel.


Jens,
You can add and adjust the balance ratio as necessary, its just a case of math.  
Rich


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## Tim Wescott (May 31, 2020)

creast said:


> This wouldn't explain the inability to fire on prime only, i.e a short brrrurrp.



Well, actually, I've seen engines with crankcase leaks that just give a single "pop" and then nothing.

The "brrurrp" is running off of fuel in the crankcase, that is pushed into the cylinder along with air.  If the crankcase seal is poor enough, you'll fire off whatever fuel/air is in the cylinder, and it'll never refill.


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## creast (May 31, 2020)

Tim Wescott said:


> Well, actually, I've seen engines with crankcase leaks that just give a single "pop" and then nothing.
> 
> The "brrurrp" is running off of fuel in the crankcase, that is pushed into the cylinder along with air.  If the crankcase seal is poor enough, you'll fire off whatever fuel/air is in the cylinder, and it'll never refill.


Hi Tim,
Yes, you are correct.
I had several pops during driving with my safe starter motor and since then I have discovered the transfer ports are only just being exposed.
I have now made a new cylinder which certainly allows scavenging and I have paid attention to the crankcase seals at cylinder and back plug and it does breath better.
I don't intend to keep trying on this setup until I have a higher Ether fuel available for testing to give me the best chance of success as I have reached desperation point  
Rich


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## Tim Wescott (May 31, 2020)

Best of luck finding your ether.  Around here (US) John Deere starting fluid is available at farm stores fairly easily -- y'all have the same problems with illegal drug manufacture as we do, but you also have farmers with tractors, so there should be _something_.


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## creast (May 31, 2020)

Tim Wescott said:


> Best of luck finding your ether.  Around here (US) John Deere starting fluid is available at farm stores fairly easily -- y'all have the same problems with illegal drug manufacture as we do, but you also have farmers with tractors, so there should be _something_.


There is a John Deere starting fluid over here but it has a different part code to the 80% version you can get in US and I cannot find an MSDS note for it which covers the Ether percentage so it may be a lower spec fluid like our auto versions which vary from 10 to 40% if you are lucky. I tried a Holts version as commented earlier without success.
I will contact John Deere UK for data this week.
Now, people may cringe at this, and the safety nazis jump on me but I am considering distilling the Ether out of this low grade fluid.
It's a simple process and is very low heat, approx 40 to 70 degC.
Obviously I will be taking precautions on safety.
Rich


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## teeleevs (May 31, 2020)

Your engine looks great hope you succeed in getting it running


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## Tim Wescott (May 31, 2020)

creast said:


> ... but I am considering distilling the Ether out of this low grade fluid.
> It's a simple process and is very low heat, approx 40 to 70 degC.
> ...



We shall monitor the obits to track your progress.

I laugh -- but I'd do that too.  In my back yard, as far from any trees as possible, with an electric hot plate (so no open flame), in small amounts, and generally taking great care.


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## Cogsy (May 31, 2020)

You're a long way from the auto ignition temperature so that should be fine - but the stoichiometry ratio for explosive combustion is huge for ether so be very careful you don't have any sparks! The druggies manage (mostly) to boil the ether away without blowing themselves up all that often so you've got a good shot at it.


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## iant (Jun 1, 2020)

Hi Rich, Ether is available in the UK. The model plane clubs have access to suppliers. Where in the UK are you? I may be able to put you in touch with someone who  can help you get some.
Ian


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## Richard Hed (Jun 1, 2020)

I'm not sure you could do this, but if you can get an enclosed vacuum set up, you could vacuum it out at virtually room temp--you needs an ice bath of some sort for your cooling coils.


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## Mechanicboy (Jun 1, 2020)

creast said:


> It's a simple process and is very low heat, approx 40 to 70 degC.
> Obviously I will be taking precautions on safety.
> Rich


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## creast (Jun 1, 2020)

Mechanicboy said:


>



I didn't fancy the acid route so tried this:


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## creast (Jun 1, 2020)

iant said:


> Hi Rich, Ether is available in the UK. The model plane clubs have access to suppliers. Where in the UK are you? I may be able to put you in touch with someone who  can help you get some.
> Ian


Hi Ian,
That's very kind of you.
I am near Coalville in Leicestershire.
Ether to boost my fuel or high ether fuel mix is what I need to confirm if this darn engine will run but I only need a very small amount.
I have tried extraction from starter fluid but I am not convinced what I have distilled is ether or ether plus heptane.
It does smell like ether and evaporates like no business but I cant say that adding to my present mix has made a marked difference.
It ran on my DC Spitfire and the Clan started but no easier than my 30% mix but nothing from the Nano at all.
To be honest I may put this engine aside a while as it is getting wearing to say the least  
Rich


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## creast (Jun 2, 2020)

Despite still being a non-runner, I decided to anodise the cylinder and spinner anyway.
Its surprising just how small this engine is when compared to the Clanford Clan.


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## sniffipn (Jun 2, 2020)

creast said:


> Despite still being a non-runner, I decided to anodise the cylinder and spinner anyway.
> Its surprising just how small this engine is when compared to the Clanford Clan.


what a lovely deep red. nothing wrong with a plain aluminium finish - but the colour certainly lifts it. does it get stored in an oily rag, or on a purpose made mounting?


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## creast (Jun 2, 2020)

sniffipn said:


> what a lovely deep red. nothing wrong with a plain aluminium finish - but the colour certainly lifts it. does it get stored in an oily rag, or on a purpose made mounting?


All my engines are mounted and on display in a cabinet


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## KenC (Jun 6, 2020)

If you make the Nano carb exactly to the drawings, the carb bore of 2.4mm diameter has an area of 4.524 sq mm. But the 2.2mm dia jet projects into the bore some 0.4mm beyond the centre  and this reduces the choke area to 1.356 sq mm. [This neglects the reduction in area caused by the needle itsself]. If the jet does not project this much into the carb bore, the choke area will be far too big to allow the engine to draw fuel. By contrast your Clanford Clan has a carb area, [neglecting the reduction caused by the needle], of 1.53mm for an engine almost 2.5 times the displacement. Even if built to drawing, unless the Nano is capable of much higher rpm than the Clan, the carb area is much too large.
Ken


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## creast (Jun 6, 2020)

KenC said:


> If you make the Nano carb exactly to the drawings, the carb bore of 2.4mm diameter has an area of 4.524 sq mm. But the 2.2mm dia jet projects into the bore some 0.4mm beyond the centre  and this reduces the choke area to 1.356 sq mm. [This neglects the reduction in area caused by the needle itsself]. If the jet does not project this much into the carb bore, the choke area will be far too big to allow the engine to draw fuel. By contrast your Clanford Clan has a carb area, [neglecting the reduction caused by the needle], of 1.53mm for an engine almost 2.5 times the displacement. Even if built to drawing, unless the Nano is capable of much higher rpm than the Clan, the carb area is much too large.
> Ken


Hi again Ken,
Thanks for the info.
With the revised spraybar which passes through the venturi I have 0.9 sq mm area so much better than the standard setup.
The engine draws fuel readily when choking the carb and I am still looking to find better fuel.
I have put this model aside awhile and am going to build a simplified rig to test out various combinations for very small capacity designs.
Re-making parts with turned threads is so time consuming and frustrating when the result doesn't work so I plan to make a simpler version with the cylinder clamped via the head with three screws and the case cover in a similar fashion. The crankcase and head will be pretty much simple blocks as weight is not an issue and for short run trials heat dissipation can be managed.
This will also allow me to explore reed valve and rear rotary intakes too.
I guess I am a bu**er for punishment.
Rich


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## mdanna (Aug 11, 2020)

Please need the complete project!
I didn't get it on Nexus!


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## creast (Aug 12, 2020)

mdanna said:


> Please need the complete project!
> I didn't get it on Nexus!



See Free CAD Designs, Files & 3D Models | The GrabCAD Community Library
All files there


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## DaveJones (Sep 2, 2020)

Been a while since I visited.  Just want to say don't give up yet.  I've made 7 of these now and most of them have been a real chore to find the running settings and get them started.  I actually put 3 of them aside because I got so fed up with not getting any response at all. Pulled them out a month later and got them all started and running. Don't know what the difference was.
Yesterday I made some spring starters for them as per the Nano drawings.  What a difference - they are now so easy to start - it's a real joy instead of a depressing chore.  Also makes it a lot quicker and easier to find the correct comp and mixture settings.
Quick video here:

Fuel is just equal parts ether, kero and castor.
Well worth giving the spring a try, I think it's the speed that it turns the engine over that does it.
Dave


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## creast (Sep 2, 2020)

DaveJones said:


> Been a while since I visited.  Just want to say don't give up yet.  I've made 7 of these now and most of them have been a real chore to find the running settings and get them started.  I actually put 3 of them aside because I got so fed up with not getting any response at all. Pulled them out a month later and got them all started and running. Don't know what the difference was.
> Yesterday I made some spring starters for them as per the Nano drawings.  What a difference - they are now so easy to start - it's a real
> 
> Hi Dave
> ...


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## mdanna (Sep 25, 2020)

creast said:


> Its funny how often a project ends up being more than just making the parts. Its all the things you have to make to achieve it!
> So, I made my cutter, 4 blade as opposed to the authors 3 blade, from En24T and hardened and tempered it. It would be nice if it was a 2o tooth or so but there are limits to my abilities!!
> Also I realised I would need to make some fixtures to hold the cylinder for the machining as I wasn't intending in following the author method of milling in the lathe.
> So, a threaded bush to hold the cylinder in a rotary table and an angle jig for the drilling of the transfer ports.



You could show how you used this jig on the rotary table.


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## KenC (Oct 6, 2020)

creast said:


> Today I drilled the transfer ports using a jig at 45 deg. I confess I eyeballed the position although the offset distance was dialled in using a pointer from the datum edge.
> Next is lapping which I normally do with a short split lap but I didn't have a suitable one this small so decided to make a different design.
> Basically, two cylindrical rods milled to half diameter, soft soldered back and turned to the finished diameter for the job.
> Centres and ferrules also made for keeping it together when separated by de-soldering and cleaning off the solder from the faces.
> ...


What you have made is commercially available and is known as a " needle eye" lap and in the real world they are the usual way to lap small bores. The halves are normally just forced apart with special pliers.
Ken


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## creast (Oct 7, 2020)

KenC said:


> What you have made is commercially available and is known as a " needle eye" lap and in the real world they are the usual way to lap small bores. The halves are normally just forced apart with special pliers.
> Ken


Thanks Ken,
I have learnt something new.
Rich


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