# Small 10-20-40 blocks that actually work.



## John S (Nov 15, 2011)

Plus 20-40-80's

Come on lads get your hard earned coin out and get splashing.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Vee-Blocks-Angle-Plates

Top of the page.

Bit of history first, the original 1-2-3 blacks were made by Starrett and the idea was they bolted together to form angle, tee's, used as packing or to bolt items to to preserve squareness.

One of those items that never had a specific designed use but was different thing to different people, very useful.

However at some stage these blocks went over to Taiwan and were copied but they drilled all the holes tapping size for 3/8" UNC, tapped some then hardened and ground them before changing the un-tapped holes to clearance holes.
Result is they wont bolt together as designed and since then millions of sets have been copied and made in India, and China. Even the Starrett ones are now wrong as they have them made out.

Another problem even for people with decent sized machines is they are too large, at 1" high they are 2" wide and at 1" wide they are usually taller than the average vise.

Soooooooooo, may I present these blocks above?

Again hardened and ground but they CAN bolt together and are of a size to suit most muddle enjuneers.

Listed as The Stevenson blocks because that cretin Ketan at ARC is still pissed off I gave him a quid for a nearly new X3 CNC mill and I told him not to name them after me. Wouldn't have been bad if I got royalties but the tight bastard wants the mill back first and not prepared to give me the quid back.

Seriously nice bit of kit and my pre production set has been in use daily for the last couple of months, in fact the 1-2-3's haven't been out the drawer.

Full marks to Ketan for listening and getting something done about them.

John S.
Modify message


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## Lew Hartswick (Nov 15, 2011)

John, That angle tilt plate (last on the link page) would be even more useful if it had
provision to use some spacer blocks like a sine bar under it. Even if not quite as 
accurate as a true sine bar it could do a lot. 
  ...lew...


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## Blogwitch (Nov 16, 2011)

I just can't wait to get my sets delivered.

The normal 321 blocks have been well used over the years, but they have always seemed just a little too big for use in my mill vice.

These seem to be ideal, and if John has had anything to do with them (like his spindexer), then they will be well thought out and fill a much needed gap.

When mine get here, I will give you an unbiased rundown on them.

They really do look like they could be the new blocks on the block.

Nice ones John


John


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## tel (Nov 16, 2011)

Nice looking blocks, should be really useful but ....OUCH ..... £12.41 postage - perhaps _next _pension day!


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## /// (Nov 16, 2011)

Haha
I was thinking the same thing Tel.
Seems everytime I want something, I can't buy it here.
If I can, it is at over inflated prices! (Supplier standard answer: 'freight'.... don't get me started on Caswell Australia)

Gonna need to some serious thinking about these blocks.... hmmm :-\


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## Blogwitch (Nov 16, 2011)

How is that for service, my blocks arrived by snail mail at lunchtime, having been sent yesterday. I think Arc Euro are about the only people in the country who can get the Post Office to jump through hoops and behave themselves.

So I just had to drag myself out into the shop to get them checked out.

You might think I am over reacting about these small blocks. Far from it, if a new thing comes on the market that is going to help me set up better in my vice, or on my machines, I soon let all my friends know. Sometimes it just might only be a one day deal, so you have to jump when the chance arises.

I told you this will be an unbiased view, and I do hope that will come across.


These are my blocks, just as they have been unwrapped, except that I rooted out a few cap screws. 

The surface finish is very nice, nice and smooth with no signs of rippling or burning. I tried a file test down one of the plain holes, and they are HARD. I also have two sets of 321 blocks, and the screws are very tight in some of the tapped holes, on all four of these blocks, they were a nice smooth fit, no picking up or tightness detected anywhere, and all holes had a nice clean chamfer on them. The small blocks use 6mm screws and the larger, 8mm.








Now we get down to the nitty gritty, how are they off for size and squareness. I have to say that one measurement is out.

The lengths and widths were spot on, or as spot on as I can measure at 60 degs F and with calibrated mics. The error was in the thickness. Both sets are the same amount too thick by 0.05mm (0.002"). This doesn't cause me any concern at all as they are the same amount out for each pair, it is if they were different thicknesses that I would worry.

I checked the squareness all round on all four blocks, and as far as I am concerned, they are spot on.







Now for my appraisal, are they any good for the job that I want them to do.

They certainly are, not only can I use them as good quality thick parallels, the larger ones more so than the smaller, but both sets will be used, with a few clamps and special screws making, they will become indispensable for me holding small parts.

You can see from this shot that the screws, even though fairly close on the small blocks, don't overhang the sides at all, so no real problems on that score. I suppose you could use half height heads if you were picky.

Just one criticism, if it was me making them, I would have gone for one size smaller threads in each set, 5mm & 6mm, they would have been plenty strong enough. But that is just me being picky, maybe they need to be that larger size for some reason.







A very happy chappie with a few new bits to help me when I get stuck. ;D


John


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## George_Race (Nov 16, 2011)

Really nice find! Do you know if they sell and ship to the U.S. ?
Or, do they have a U.S.A. outlet for state side sales.
Thanks,
George


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## crankshafter (Nov 16, 2011)

NICE!
I have just hit the button woohoo1 think they will be at my doorstep in a week or so ;D
I have use for them in my new project I think scratch.gif
CS


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## Majorstrain (Nov 17, 2011)

Well they look good,

I'm thinking if we get five guys together here in Australia that want one set of each (2x 10-20-40 and 2 x 20-40-80) then we can split the shipping.
The landed cost for one set of each (2x 10-20-40 and 2 x 20-40-80) to Perth, West Australia is $71.43AU, but the landed cost for 5 sets is $48.31AU each.
Then it would just be local pickup or Austpost from here.

PM me if you are interested.
Cheers,
Phil


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## ShedBoy (Nov 17, 2011)

PM sent Phil.

Brock


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## /// (Nov 17, 2011)

Phil, I'm in.
If we get enough people for a bulk buy, might be able to negotiate with Arc for a discount?

I'm an Idoit. Huge.
I placed an order with Arc last night but decided not to get the blocks 'coz of the freight costs.

Seeing your pricing above had me seriously confused, was cheaper than the figures I was getting!
Then it clicked.... these come in pairs.... I had two pairs of each in my cart. *D'oh!* :

The item I ordered last night(Lathe collet chuck), the freight is the same as the item price, $45 each!
:'(


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## Majorstrain (Nov 17, 2011)

Just a quick question for those guys that have got the two sets.
What do they weigh?

Armed with that knowledge and the Australia Post shipping calculator, the eastern states boys can decide if it's worth jumping in on the Western Australia order or organising there own bulk order.

Three sets so far, another two and its a go.

Cheers,
Phil


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## tel (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm in!


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## bezalel2000 (Nov 17, 2011)

Count me too

did we get to 5?

I lost count :big:


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## tel (Nov 17, 2011)

By my count we did!


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## Majorstrain (Nov 17, 2011)

Yep 5 it is. 
I plan to place the order on Friday night. That will give me a chance to find out the weight and work out the shipping to East Aus.
Still room for a few more to join in.
I'l keep you all informed by PM.
Cheers,
Phil

Update: Arc Euro replied to my query about the combined weight of the two sets. It's 1.6kg.


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## coalburner (Nov 18, 2011)

HIi,
received mine this morning,
the small set weighs approx 63g
the large set weighs approx 742g

regards

G


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## Majorstrain (Nov 18, 2011)

coalburner  said:
			
		

> HIi,
> received mine this morning,
> the small set weighs approx 63g
> the large set weighs approx 742g
> ...



Thanks G, Thm:
That's good info.
Cheers,
Phil


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## Ketan Swali (Nov 18, 2011)

Some clarification:

Small Set is about 75grams. Large Set is about 770grams. This is without the extra outside mail bag/envelope packing. ARCs original reply misplaced the decemal points when adding. Sorry!

Ketan at ARC.


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## Majorstrain (Nov 18, 2011)

Just put the order through. 
There were six of us all together and the items worked out to just under $50 AU for the two sets including shipping to West Oz. It would have been just over $70 AU if we had gone it alone.
Thanks guys for putting your hand up and getting together. :bow:

Cheers again,
Phil 




> Some clarification:
> 
> Small Set is about 75grams. Large Set is about 770grams. This is without the extra outside mail bag/envelope packing. ARCs original reply misplaced the decemal points when adding. Sorry!
> 
> Ketan at ARC.



No worries Ketan,
The two options for parcels within Australia by AustPost is a 500g satchel or a 3kg satchel. So it will be the 3kg satchel when I forward them on the the guys in the Eastern States.


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## /// (Nov 18, 2011)

Edit: Oops, Just saw the PM's... 
I shouldn't be online at 1am..... ignore me :


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## pelallito (Nov 19, 2011)

George,
I went to their site and they do sell to the USA. But the 2 block sets and S&H it was over $70.00. :'(
It would be nice to find a cheaper shipping option. 
I might order the small set. 
Regards,
Fred


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## bob ward (Nov 24, 2011)

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> Plus 20-40-80's
> 
> Bit of history first, the original 1-2-3 blacks were made by Starrett and the idea was they bolted together to form angle, tee's, used as packing or to bolt items to to preserve squareness.
> 
> ...



Sir John, there are a couple of things I've wondered about 123 blocks as they were manufactured, you have your ear to the ground so you may know the answers. 

One is, why didn't someone with access to a manufacturer whisper in their shell pinks many years ago that it would make good commercial sense for them to make the blocks with 3/8" through holes? It would give them a marketing edge etc etc?

Does the 95% of the world that uses metric use those same 123 blocks or do they have access to metric blocks with 10mm through holes?

Thanks for the heads up on the metric blocks.


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## Ketan Swali (Nov 24, 2011)

Ketan Swali  said:
			
		

> Some clarification:
> 
> Small Set is about 75grams. Large Set is about 770grams. This is without the extra outside mail bag/envelope packing. ARCs original reply misplaced the decemal points when adding. Sorry!
> 
> Ketan at ARC.



Just a little update:

Yesterday, a customer brought up the hardness issue of the blocks to my attention. I referred this to the engineers at the production factory.

The blocks have been heat treated to HRC25-HRC28, which is at the low end of the hardening process. The engineers have taken this decision as it allows the end user to make any changes to the blocks as they so wish. 

We made a mistake by referring to them as hardened, rather than toughened. This has now been rectified on our website, however, the advert which appears in MEW 184 still incorrectly states hardened.
For all customer who are ordering with effect from 23rd November 2011 over the phone, we are clarifying this point pre-sale. Our selling prices remain the same.

We apologise to all customers who have purchased this item prior to 23rd November with the understanding that they are hardened to normal rock hard treatment to be found with traditional 1-2-3 blocks. 
In this respect, if anyone wishes to return their blocks due to this misunderstanding, we are happy to accept their return, and we will pay for return carriage costs to us. 
If you wish to do this, please call us first to enable us to log and agree to the return, along with carriage costs.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused effected customers.

Ketan at ARC.


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## Blogwitch (Nov 24, 2011)

Ketan,

When I checked mine down inside with a small Swiss file, they were plenty hard enough for me.

The small one especially, because if it was as hard as the normal 321 blocks, they could easily shatter if tightened up in the vice too much, as there is more hole than material

IMHO, they are perfect for the job, hard enough to resist scratching, denting and deforming, but plenty tough enough to do what I want to do with them.

Now having two sets of each, I can see them becoming indispensable for setups and machining. I will be making all sorts of little clamps and fixtures so that tiny items can be held on them. Then they will really come into their own. Before, I was having to make special jigs to hold things, these will take hours off the setup and machining cycles.

Just to answer a previous question. I have seen advertised 25-50-75mm blocks (in the US I think) but I have no idea if the holes are correct, as Ketans' are.


John


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## George_Race (Nov 24, 2011)

Attention Mr. Ketan Swali
I am trying to buy 2 sets of the smaller blocks from your company.
So far I am very unsuccessful. All I am trying to do is find out what the exact PayPal price will be for the merchandise and shipping. My invoice, on your web site, showed the price to be a total of 29.67 BPS. When I go to process the payment it says that payment will be processed at the current exchange rate, but does not give a final price that i will be paying with PayPal.
After the third email to your web site information address, all I seem to be getting back is that they cannot give me a price in U.S. Dollars, and to go to the checkout page and pay the amount shown. Unfortunately, the final actual amount in U. S. Dollars is never shown.

I just sent an email with details a few minutes ago asking them to forward it on to someone who can help me.  Hopefully it will be brought to your attention.

As model makers, I am certain that there are a lot of builders here on this site that would love to be able to purchase your small blocks. But, you must understand that knowing what we are paying, before the payment is made, is really necessary to keep from being overcharged with any kind of hidden or conversion fees, which we have all seen from overseas sellers.
Thanks for any consideration, I am sure it will be appreciated by many reading this particular string of information.
George

l


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## Ketan Swali (Nov 24, 2011)

George_Race  said:
			
		

> Attention Mr. Ketan Swali
> I am trying to buy 2 sets of the smaller blocks from your company.
> So far I am very unsuccessful. All I am trying to do is find out what the exact PayPal price will be for the merchandise and shipping. My invoice, on your web site, showed the price to be a total of 29.67 BPS. When I go to process the payment it says that payment will be processed at the current exchange rate, but does not give a final price that i will be paying with PayPal.
> After the third email to your web site information address, all I seem to be getting back is that they cannot give me a price in U.S. Dollars, and to go to the checkout page and pay the amount shown. Unfortunately, the final actual amount in U. S. Dollars is never shown.
> ...



Having read comments on another forum, I understand that the costs will be expensive to ship these blocks to the U.S. I am not at work at presenting (U.K. evening), so I cant check. 

We are unable to directly give you a clear idea of costs in U.S.Dollars. This is controlled by PayPal or your credit card service provider. At present, we only accept payment in Great British Pounds. To get a clear idea of costs in Great British Pounds, you will first need to register on our website with your name and U.S. address and log-in. This way, our website will know you are shopping from U.S., so, after you fill the shopping cart, and proceed to the check-out, the system will automatically calculate shipping costs for you to the U.S.. At this point, if the costs are workable for you (as I understand it from forum posts elsewhere - they are too high), then you can proceed to pay by credit card or PayPal. If too expensive, then you do not have to proceed with the purchase.

When you choose to pay by PayPal or credit card, you are automatically taken away from our website to their secure payment platform. This is to protect your security. We have no access to or control of this process. The rate they will use to calculate the exchange rate is also outside our control. 

Note: as a matter of policy, we do not automatically take your payment. We just obtain authorisation. PayPal or the credit card company issue a block on your funds/account for the order amount. We only process the payment if we accept and process your order. However, we are aware that PayPal or the credit card company may indicate that they have already debited your account. At the end of the day, we are only interested in payment in Great British Pounds, and we do not know what rate of exchange PayPal or your credit card company will charge. 

I hope this information is of help. You will note from this thread that a group of Australians have got together to do a group purchase, because costs to ship to each individual in Australia is just as expensive as it is to the U.S.. May be if you can get together with others in the U.S., it might be more cost effective.

Ketan at ARC.


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## George_Race (Nov 24, 2011)

Dear Ketan:
Thanks so much for the quick reply. Now I understand your situation with PayPal and Credit Cards I can see the position you are in.

I had a bad experience last year. I ordered an item from a company in England, paid by PayPal and was charged over double the actual cost of the item. I tried to reason with the company, but like you, they did not have control over how their financial provider processed PayPal through their system. Even worse I could not cancel the order and get my money back, they had a 40% restocking fee. I ended up paying over $200 U.S. Dollars for an item I found later that i could have purchased for around $80 U.S.

Again thanks for the reply and explanation. Hopefully one of these days someone stateside will start making a small set of blocks.
George


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## pelallito (Nov 24, 2011)

Ketan,
Why don't you guys set up a way of selling those blocks in a different way to the US. Right now the S&H is horrendous!
I, for one, can't see paying more for S&H than what I am buying!
Thanks,
Fred


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## Blogwitch (Nov 25, 2011)

All these people talking about high shipping costs.

This is what we from the UK have had to contend with for the last few years when bringing in items from the US.

It is common practice for items to cost us at least two times the original price and then we get hit for customs duty (20%) if it costs more than 18 UK pounds, and that includes shipping charges. 

Some places do try to keep the price down by using USPS boxed services, but most use couriers, and that is when it gets very costly.

That is the way of the world nowadays and I am sure, if Ketan could get his overseas shipping charges down, he would, but even he can't magic up anyone who will ship for less.


John


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## Majorstrain (Nov 25, 2011)

I just want to say thanks to John Stevenson and the guys from ARC Euro for making these cool little blocks available.
Delivery was super fast, they were dispatched on Monday and arrived in Western Australia on Thursday. (4 days Thm

I turned down a few M6 cap screw heads to reduce the exposed head height when used with the 10-20-40mm blocks. Yes they are not as strong anymore due to the thinning of the section around the hex key hole, but I don't plan to be applying ###Nm of torque when I nip them up. ;D

Cheers,
Phil 

Just a note with the cost of delivery, 
Six of the forum members from Australia put in a combined order for a set of the small blocks and a set of the large blocks each.

For those able to pick them up in Western Australia we saved 30% over ordering individuality. The Eastern states guys saved 15% when you include the on shipping from west to east. If you get more people involved the savings increase.
It's one way of getting the shipping costs down, but it does require a little faith in your forum members that you group in with.


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## Ketan Swali (Nov 25, 2011)

pelallito  said:
			
		

> Ketan,
> Why don't you guys set up a way of selling those blocks in a different way to the US. Right now the S&H is horrendous!
> I, for one, can't see paying more for S&H than what I am buying!
> Thanks,
> Fred



Hi Fred,

I have re-looked into the S&H for USA. Lower revised rates for parcels up to 2kg gross weight to destinations: Canada, Dominican Republic, Mexico, United States have now been updated into our system, for parcels sent by Registered (Internatinal Signed for) Airmail Post. This applies to parcels up to GBP100.00 in value excluding handling and carriage.

Although the new prices are lower, they are not a major reduction. I have reduced the prices the best we can. We can only send parcels overseas by "registed" post, for security reasons. The cost for registering a parcel is GBP£4.95, as at November 2011. Rest of the carriage costs are based on gross weight of the parcel. The handling element we are charging is GBP£1.00, but this is less than what it really costs us after considering PayPal/Credit Card processor fees, financial processor fees, packaging and labor costs.

I will review the courier costs for parcels above 2kg gross weight and above £100.00 in value at a later date. However, at present we will not be shipping any electrical based products to the U.S..

I hope this will help you to re-consider your purchase decisions from the U.K..

Ketan at ARC.


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## pelallito (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi Ketan,
Thank you for looking into it and responding to me. I am sure that there are more than a few of us over here, that would buy more of your great products if the S&H were lower. 
I will go back through your check out procedure and see what the price comes to. I would like to get more than a few tools from you!
Thanks again.
Best Regards,
Fred


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## ileed (Nov 25, 2011)

I am in the US and would be interested in a pair.


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## John S (Nov 25, 2011)

I'm in the UK and probably a bit too old to appreciate a pair, however the blocks are nice.  ;D

John S.


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## steamer (Nov 25, 2011)

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> I'm in the UK and probably a bit too old to appreciate a pair, however the blocks are nice. ;D
> 
> John S.



bada da!  He's here all week folks!   Try the meatloaf and tip your waitress...

 ;D


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## tel (Nov 25, 2011)

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> I'm in the UK and probably a bit too old to appreciate a pair, however the blocks are nice. ;D
> 
> John S.



You're never too old to appreciate a pear!


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## bezalel2000 (Nov 25, 2011)

steamer  said:
			
		

> Snip - tip your waitress...Snip



That must be an American euphemism for 'do a Tango with the restaurant staff'  ;D


Bez


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## steamer (Nov 25, 2011)

Actually a "tip" is a gratuity for a job well done over and above the cost of the food.....

at least that's what it is in the US....in Austrailia...well  who knows....probably what you do to get rid of a dropbear heh? ;D

Dave


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## ShedBoy (Nov 26, 2011)

"Tip" Australian coloquialism for a great place to find sometimes some good stuff, slowly being made extinct by the recycle station 

"tip" a helpful bit of advice

"tip" then end of something sharp or pointy

There is probably more. Back to the subject of the blocks why are you imperialist in the USA interested in metric stuff  I thought the country was trying to keep the metric system isolated to the rest of the world ;D

Tip- you are going to need new measuring sticks to use them blocks :big: :big:
Tip- 2.2046226218 pounds to the kilogram :big: :big:

Just pulling your leg


Brock


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## bezalel2000 (Nov 26, 2011)

Hay Brock 

You forgot

"tip" - a means of emptying the billy  ;D

Bez


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## tel (Nov 26, 2011)

.... and Tip Top - a brand of bread.


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## John Hill (Nov 26, 2011)

tel  said:
			
		

> .... and Tip Top - a brand of bread.



I am sure you meant ice cream .... 






BTW, I believe the van is a Bradford with an engine equivalent to half a VW's.


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## ShedBoy (Nov 26, 2011)

Bread in this neck of the woods
http://www.tiptop.com.au/


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## steamer (Nov 26, 2011)

Why do I feel outnumbered?

 ;D


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## pelallito (Nov 26, 2011)

They are probably still using the horse and buggy to deliver the bread!
We are outnumbered! :big:
Fred


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## steamer (Nov 26, 2011)

That's not saying much...we're still using the imperial system!......12" to the foot....who the hell thought that up? ???

And until I get my metric micrometer from the micrometer fairy....its staying that way!
 ;D



Dave


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## ShedBoy (Nov 26, 2011)

For me to use imperial I need my little black book with conversion charts and a button which has mm/inches written next to it and usually a few curse words.
Brock


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## steamer (Nov 26, 2011)

Actually I've gotten used to both systems and convert pretty readily...practice, practice.


Dave


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## Russel (Nov 26, 2011)

steamer  said:
			
		

> That's not saying much...we're still using the imperial system!......12" to the foot....who the hell thought that up? ???[...]



The imperial system is based off of us. I know that my thumb at the base of my fingernail is almost exactly one inch, my foot is about 12 inches, and my arms spread horizontally are slightly over 2 yards. At work we once had a competition to see who could guess the distance between the wall and some cabinets while we were waiting for someone to get a tape measure. A couple of us were within a sixteenth of an inch. The distance was about six and a half feet, so you couldn't use just one body measurement.


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## steamer (Nov 26, 2011)

I know Russel...it was a joke... ;D

Dave


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## Russel (Nov 27, 2011)

steamer  said:
			
		

> I know Russel...it was a joke... ;D
> 
> Dave



Please forgive me. Sometimes I can be a little too literal.


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## steamer (Nov 27, 2011)

No worries mate....It's all good.

 ;D

Dave


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## tel (Nov 28, 2011)

;D ;D ;D ;D

It's all even gooder now! My blocks arrived this morning!

Thanks Phil, for setting up and handling the buy and Ketan for the speed and attention you gave it!


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## ref1ection (Nov 28, 2011)

steamer  said:
			
		

> That's not saying much...we're still using the imperial system!......12" to the foot....who the hell thought that up? ???
> 
> And until I get my metric micrometer from the micrometer fairy....its staying that way!
> ;D
> ...



At least you guys stuck with a system. In Canada we declared metric as our new system years ago but the only thing that is metric now are the hand tools you need to repair all the stuff we import, and heaven help you if you need metric hardware to do so. 

Ray


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## shred (Dec 7, 2011)

Any thought of doing them with bolt head clearances in them? I have this set, completely unmarked, obtained years ago from an estate sale, but quite envied by my fellow ME's. There are alternating clearance and tapped holes down one of each face and counterbores for a 3/8" SHCS on the other.


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## tomsteemson (Aug 6, 2020)

John S said:


> Plus 20-40-80's
> 
> Come on lads get your hard earned coin out and get splashing.
> 
> Vee Blocks & Angle Plates - Arc Euro Trade



 I can see it's been many years since this was first posted, but having just bought a full set of the Stevenson blocks and I'm very impressed.

The finish of the blocks is very good (excepting one huge burr on one of the holes - easy fixed), with tolerances around the +/- 0.015 mm (Grade 1 surface plate, grade 1 slip-gauges and a Mitutoyo 543-391B Indicator for measurement) which seems to be pretty fabulous for the price.

I don't have any really accurate tools for confirming squareness but visual inspection, using an engineers square I trust, it looks pretty good.

Just wanted to thank you for your post


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