# Setting up my mill



## Bogstandard (Aug 12, 2008)

I now have the opportunity to show how I set up my new mill, to get it ready to do some work.
Some of this information might be irrelevant, because of the type of machine you have. But hopefully, it will give you an insight into what and how and why it is done.
It covers machine levelling, tramming in the head, and fitting and setting up a vice

I will be showing you some precision instruments that you might not possess. Don't worry, you might be able to borrow them from a friend or from where you work. As time passes you might invest in some yourself.

This is how I do it, others might have a different method, so they can add onto this post, to show how they do it, then you can choose which method to go with.


Why level a machine?
There are lots of reasons, but I will concentrate on the two main ones. A level machine should in theory have less wear and stresses put on its slideways, because it will not have to cope with twisted ways and climbing slopes. The second and most important to myself, it will show up deviations from the norm if I do a quick level check. I am in fact setting the machine up as its own datum.

There are a few other obvious ones, like not having coolant rushing down to one end and pouring over the edge, and in bad situations, tooling sliding off the table.

In industry they go to inordinate levels to produce a machine that is level, they will take off tables so they only level up on the slides, and the use of lasers has now taken levelling to finite limits, and the list can go on forever. But in our situation, I think levelling the table will be good enough.

This is a picture of my levelling tools, all purchased second hand, the latest was the silver coloured clinometer, that I bought off fleabay for a very reasonable price. All the tools here, put together, have cost me under £100, so they are available if you search enough.
If you haven't any of these, at least you now know what they look like, and you might be able to borrow or hire one.
Using a site level is as much use as a chocolate fire screen, they are just not accurate enough








This is what they look like out of boxes. The levels are self explanatory, the clinometer is like an adjustable level and is mostly used for setting things at angles, but can be used as a level as well.
Before I started, I took the opportunity, because I had a nice expanse of clean flat metal (it doesn't need to be level, only near enough), to calibrate both the normal levels. The 12" one was slightly out.
Levels like these are classed as precision instruments, and should be treated as such. If you can handle and position them without the bubble breaking up, you are handling them correctly.







What else is needed?
If you have bottomless pockets with lots of cash in them, you would go for shock absorbing levelling feet. Some of these can cost as much as I paid for my machine.
So I will go for something on the rough and ready side.
I am lucky in the fact that an old friend (now gone to a better place supposedly) used to get me laser offcuts of stainless sheet in all sorts of thicknesses, coupled to a few bits of shim steel I have, that should do it.
On no account use non ferrous materials as they have a tendency over time to compress, and so you will lose level. One thing to note about using ferrous materials. If you give the machine a hard knock, it will slide over steel as though it were ice. So until you get the machine 'stuck' down, be a bit careful when handling big stuff around it. I will be using the machine for a few weeks, checking the level every so often, then I will give a seal all round the base with hard silicone to 'stick' it to the floor and to stop crap and livestock from getting underneath it.







Seeing that I have my own small/large levels I set them up on the machine, as close to the centre of table operations as possible. On my setup, the levels will not be moved at all until the levelling is done and dusted. For using just one, I would mark the table with felt tip in the X and Y axis so the level can be positioned fairly accurately each time you have to move it.







I did this by myself, using a pry bar and some hard plywood, swapping and changing shims under each corner until I got the level spot on. It took me the best part of five hours, because I had to shim, get up, get down and change the shim pattern, get up etc etc. If there were two of us, maybe an hour. Remember, hopefully you only ever have to level the machine once in its, or your lifetime, so you may as well get it right first time.







X axis







Y axis






BTW, one full division out on these precision levels equates to, on the X axis 0.0015" drop over 3ft.

Once the levelling is done, only then can you move on >>>>>>>>>>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tramming the head, or getting the cutters to cut right and on the level.

If you have a head, or column that allows the head to be tilted over to do angle cutting, then you really need to 'tram' the head in.
If you are cutting all the time in the X axis then the problem will only show itself as a back or fwds overcut, and can be used to your advantage to produce a superior machined finish. But on the other hand, if you do cut in the Y axis, then it can cause problems, because if the tram is out, you will get a sloping face on your cuts (the cutter is tilted at an angle slightly).
On some of the much larger machines, they can tilt the head both ways, and so need tramming in both directions, I will only be doing the tramming on the X axis (normal machines).
If you have a machine like a mill/drill or one that cannot be tilted, you have to make do with what the manufacturers have given you, unless you take a course on precision shimming on the base of a column.

How do we do it?

What needs to be done is measure how far the head is out, and move it to a position where it is at a true right angle to the table. How you adjust it varies from machine to machine, so I won't go into that part, you will have to read your destructions. I will show you how to measure it, to allow you to get it upright.


Again, I am using a complicated bit of kit. The only reason for this, it was the only thing I could reach in my storage shed, normally I would use a bit of right angle bent rod, 8" long with a DTI stuck on the end. There are now dedicated tramming tools on the market, but you can easily duplicate one with a couple of cheap clock gauges and a bit of ally plate.

So what you do is bring the DTI down onto the table until it registers, then zero the clock outer ring. Very carefully (running it gently over a sheet of thick paper, or as I do litho plate) swing thru 180 degrees to the other side of the table.







Just like this.
Then adjust the head to half the error.
Repeat this until when you swing from one side to the other, you get the same or very close reading. Tighten up and recheck it hasn't moved.







This is my finished setting, 0.00015" over about 9", that is close enough for me. If you need better than this, good luck.






So now we have a level table and a vertical head, the machine is nearly ready to cut, or is it?
This next bit is about one of the most abused items on a mill, but should be treated like a precision instrument.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE VICE.

People just go out and buy any old vice, slap it down onto the table, grab a handful of bolts or clamps out of the scrap box and screw it down. Then they wonder why their machine doesn't cut to size and nothing ends up parallel.

Your vice should be the best quality you can afford and maybe some. It is the interface between machine and job and if it isn't set up correctly, you just might as well use duct tape to stick things onto the table.



First things first, get yourself the best vice you can.
The next thing is getting it fixed to the table. Chocolate and rubber nuts and bolts out of the scrap box just will not do, not only are they usually not up to the job, they can also cause damage to your machinery. Just wait until you see a table that has had its t-slot ripped out, because someone thought it would be cheaper and a good idea to use a hex headed bolt instead.

I had these given to me with the mill, and are dirt cheap nowadays.







But instead of breaking up a perfectly good set, I bought a few extra t-nuts, studs and clamp nuts








These were modified for a perfect fit to clamp my vice down to the table. I will modify some more for my RT and dividing head, as they all have different thickness bases.
So now we have some strong, high tensile steel fittings, the vice was bolted roughly in the middle of the table. Later on I will see if I can mount both vice and RT on the table, to save me having to swap them over.







Ignoring the C spanner, if you haven't got these other tools or something similar, go no further, if you do, read on.
The 3-2-1 block should really be a parallel, but I couldn't, as usual, get to them at this time (that will teach me to pack everything away).







The block was resting on the bottom of the vice but sticking up above the jaws. As I said I would normally use a parallel, only because it is my way, you could run the DTI across the fixed jaw instead.
The vice shouldn't be tight down, just nipped up at the moment.
With the DTI in the spindle, move the table until the DTI just touches the parallel plus a little bit, at one end as shown, zero the dial. Wind on the X axis to move the DTI across the face of the parallel.







Normally if the needle goes clockwise it means that the parallel is getting closer to you at the end the clock is on. Wind off the DTI and tap the end of the vice near where the handle fits on the right hand side, only tap it gently. The reason you take the clock away is that the sudden shock of tapping can destroy the very fine inner gearing.
Retouch on with the clock, re-zero and traverse to the other side. You keep tapping and traversing until you get fairly close (within a couple of thou), then tighten up the nuts, but not white knuckle tight just yet. Keep going until you either get it perfect or within a couple of tenths. Then do the white knuckle job on the nuts. Recheck again to make sure it has stayed in tolerance.
This squareness check should be done at the start of each new job. Just put a DTI in the chuck and run it across. It only takes a couple of minutes each time, but it does make sure you are cutting as square as possible each and every time.







Now this is the bit where everone trusts the vice maker, don't. My last vice had a 0.002" runout from side to side, and I thought I had bought quality.
Open up the vice jaws and set the DTI as I have done. Zero the dial.







Now moving the table on the X axis, traverse across the base of the vice jaws until you get to the other side. Note the deviation. If you are lucky, like me this time, you have a good vice, treasure it.
If you do get a deviation you will have to pack up the down end with shims to correct it. Or if you have or know someone who has the machinery to set up the datum on the jaws bottom face, you can have the base machined to correct the runout.
If you do a lot of wide work, it might pay you to do a check across Y axis as well.






That's it my friends.
Four and a half hours to compose.
If you notice any glaring spelling or grammar mistakes, put it down to old age. Any other noticeable ommissions or errors, let me know and I will put it right.

Bog 'Wacked Out' Standard


----------



## NickG (Aug 12, 2008)

Hi Bogs,

Thanks for the useful info on setting up your mill. I have just bought a 'cheapo' (not for me!) one from a guy on ebay. It is the same machine as the chester century but with a £300 saving over their price, and it much heavier and more rigid than my old machine. Basically I just went for the biggest, most rigid machine I could afford and accommodate in the space. It's variable speed which isn't the best but it has a 1.5 hp DC motor so it's not too bad. I bolted my vice down and did check the fixed jaw was inline with the x axis with the dti as you described, however, you are right, I did just assume that the surface under the jaws and the base of the vice are parallel! It's a good old really heavy elliot vice that probably cost about half of what my milling machine did when it was new, nevertheless, I may check it now!

Incidentally, I've just bought an ER25 collet chuck and set of 15 collets from a chinese company on ebay for £35 all in. Looks very similar to yours. I haven't tried them yet so can't vouch for the accuracy, but I have to say they look an excellent deal. Will update when I've actually cut some metal with the setup and post a link at if anybody is interested.

Well, your workshop is looking great, what is the first project once it's all set up?!

Nick


----------



## Loose nut (Aug 12, 2008)

Nice write up Bog, you should be sending these into Model Engineer and get paid for your work.

I know how important leveling a lathe is if you want to turn true, but I have been told that on a mill, especially a smaller mill/drill or bench top type it is less important because the weight is all in one spot and the foot print is smaller and can resist twisting so getting wind in the ways is less likely to happen. On bigger machines this would be different.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not suggesting that mills shouldn't be leveled

P.S. what about machinable soft jaws on the vise to take up any inaccuracy in its construction as far as accurately leveling the work piece, just a quick skim before putting in the part and avoid shimming.


----------



## Bogstandard (Aug 12, 2008)

Hi Nick,

Glad you found at least one part of the article useful, it makes it all worthwhile.

I saw those machines on eBay and was wondering what they were like. Do you get full torque at the lower speeds? Where Chester score is in their electronic motor control, I can control mine so that the spindle is hardly moving but it has full cutting power.

I have an ER32 setup that came as a freebie with the machine. I still prefer my old fixed size collet set though. If I put something into these that requires it to be closed down to size, it is a PITA to hold the cutter, hold the spindle brake and tighten on the collet at the same time. I will have to teach Bandit to do at least one of those jobs.

I have a previously designed and made engine to finish off and bling up first, then it will be modifying a bit of the new tooling, or maybe the other way around. After that the lathe should be in and commissioned, then I can start on the 'Halo' project.

John


----------



## CrewCab (Aug 12, 2008)

Thank you John :bow:

Excellent as always mate ;D .............. a quick traverse with a dial gauge tells me I'm cutting about 2 thou deeper over about 21/2", so a bit of tramming is on the cards methinks ................ many thanks for the continued input, it is appreciated 8)

CC


----------



## Bogstandard (Aug 12, 2008)

Loose Nut,

You are correct in bringing up issues like you have, that is what the forum is all about.

I have never owned one of these benchtop mills, so I cannot verify or contradict your findings. I was always taught to level everything, even bench grinders. That way, a machine has less stress to cope with.

Again, I have seen, but never used soft jaws on the mill vice. So I cannot comment on the pros and cons.

It looks like I can't answer any of your questions, maybe someone with experience of them might like to give us all the lowdown. Then we will all know a bit more.

Bogs


----------



## Bogstandard (Aug 14, 2008)

Just as a matter of interest, this shows a gadget for tramming.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Miscellaneous_Milling_Accessories_101.html

I am sure with a little bit of ingenuity, something like it could easily be knocked up. You can also see on the ad a downloadable (or readable) file so that you will know how to set it up and use it.
I personally, if going onto a machine that can angled in the X axis only, would make the dials a little wider apart. The larger the distance, the more accurately the machine can be set.

John


----------



## BobWarfield (Aug 14, 2008)

Nice write up!

A couple of thoughts on things I do slightly differently (that are probably of no consequence), on leveling/tramming/shimming mills, and on soft jaws for vises.

First, many mills will benefit from "squaring" as well as "tramming". I was taught that "tramming" refers to the alignments that are intended to be adjusted in the normal course of business. Typically it involves rotating the head on an axis parallel to the table's Y-axis. "Squaring" adds an adjustment for "nod", which is the relationship of the spindle axis relative to the X-axis. If we adjust relative to both x and y, then the z (spindle) axis is truly square. On some mills the nod is adjustable, and on others, it must be shimmed in, typically where the column attaches to the base. For a newly acquired mill, it is well worth the time to at least check it, particularly since it just needs a rig like Bog's measuring fore and aft for nod in addition to side to side for tram.

Once squared, I would say it's also useful to move the table along both axes with an indicator in place and just see if travel along that axis is really square. The indicator shouldn't move much. If it does, I believe it is a major project to fix it (I've seen cases where the machinist flycut the table, for example), but it is at least worth the trouble to be aware of what is going on there.

On to tramming the vise! I learned a couple off tricks that I find make it go faster. 

Trick #1 is for fast rough alignment. I bought a 36" heavy steel straightedge on sale. I place that in the jaws of the vise and start out aligning the ends of the straightedge visually with the edge of the table or one of the T-slots. Tap it in until the straight edge exactly matches optically with these edges. With a long straightedge, I usually find I am within a couple thousandths of tram just with that quick and easy trick. 

Trick #2, work from one side to the other. Most accounts don't mention this, I think the machinists do it automatically having been taught in person. When I finally read it I found my time to tram was drastically reduced. Cinch down one of your two vise mounting bolts relatively tight (not white knuckle, but tighter than finger tight too). Leave the other loose. Stick a parallel (or 1-2-3 block) in the vise. Start your indicator at the side that is cinched. I always cinch the left side, so the indicator starts on the left. I use the Y handwheel to bring the need to zero. Then I crank the X so the table moves left traversing the needle left to right on the parallel. You started with zero at the far left. Make sure you zero slightly to the right of the cinched bolt's axis. Now about 1/3 of the way across the parallel the needle will have moved a touch. Tap gently until you're back at zero. Go out to 2/3's. Tap until rezeroed again. One last time at 3/3's. Now crank it back all the way to where you started. 3 out of 4 times that needle will be at zero all the way back for me, but if it isn't, make another pass. I've gotten to where I anticipate zero, so I typically cinch the right bolt before cranking the indicator back, as the crank back is just a routine check.

Tramming the vise takes less time to do than write about with this approach.

Next, on the subject of soft jaws. Let me start by saying I love them! I basically do not use my vises without a set of softjaws in place. They are easier on the workpiece (fewer scratches than hardened jaws) and seem like cheap insurance. What else can you do with them? For starters, you can mill a step in each jaw. Do this after installing a new set of jaws and tramming them in. Since you cut the step using the machine's motion, you can be sure that the step is dead accurate relative to that motion. That accuracy is what loose nuts was referring to, I think. Now you use the step like a set of built-in parallels. Really nice!

Much more clever things are possible with soft jaws, especially if you have CNC. For example, you could mill the step at an angle to hold a part at an angle for machining. The CNC'ers use softjaws like a sort of universal fixture. Mill the "negative image" of a part in the top of some softjaws and you can precisely register a part to machine both sides.

Or, suppose you want to machine a big plate? Move the softjaws to the outside of your vise and you can clamp a large plate and machine it, greatly increasing the capacity of your vise:






Did I mention I love soft jaws?

What if you need to stand that plate on end? Support it higher than the vise will either by using tall soft jaws, or a set of 1-2-3 or 2-4-6 blocks:






I've digressed far enough, so I'll go no further. Lots more of this stuff on my web site. Here, for example:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCMillTipsTechniques.htm

Cheers,

BW


----------



## billmac (Aug 14, 2008)

My first post here so apologies for not introducing myself first. 

I am on the lookout for a new mill so I am very interested in what you think of your mill especially when you have used it for a while. I want something that is rigid enough for largish model engine work, which I guess is similar to your requirements. I had considered a rebuilt Bridgeport or a clone and might still do that, but really for garage use they would be a bit on the large/heavy size. The mill you are installing is a very useful size and for my light use would be great if there are no serious issues. So I am looking forward to your review - good or bad. Please keep posting as you get to work with it.


----------



## Bogstandard (Aug 14, 2008)

Nice add on Bob, 
If a few more people could do that, then everyone will have a choice to how they do things. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Bill (I hope your name is Bill)

I did a bit of a write up about my initial reactions on this machine in this post, about half down the page.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2314.105

I will be hacking a bit of metal with it over the weekend, so it will have a bit more added to the above post.

John


----------



## billmac (Aug 14, 2008)

Yes it is Bill, sorry should have included that. 

I read your earlier post and look forward to hearing how things look when you are fully in action. I have to say that the finish looks to be a lot better on your mill than I saw last time I looked at them. The Chester paint colour looks good on that machine. The DRO deal you got is also a nice setup.

Bill


----------



## Bogstandard (Aug 14, 2008)

Bill,

I was very surprised by the build quality, and the control box is a marvel inside, not one wire out of place, everything clearly marked, and very good quality components used, no cheap and flimsy plastic bits.

Since Chester opened their new factory in China for quality control, the machines are really coming out well. I remember them when they first started, the quality then was abysmal.

You do pay a bit more from Chesters, but if you can see thru the price, the packages they come up with really make them good value for money, and if you are hard, and go in flashing cash, you can get a lot of extras and upgrades thrown in, you wouldn't believe what I got as freebies.

The machine, unlike others of this ilk I have seen, is of a superior build quality. It gives you the confidence to push it to its limits, without bits falling off. Time will tell.

If my new lathe comes in at the same sort of standard, I will be over the moon.

John


----------



## Loose nut (Aug 15, 2008)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> Next, on the subject of soft jaws. Let me start by saying I love them! I basically do not use my vises without a set of softjaws in place. They are easier on the workpiece (fewer scratches than hardened jaws) and seem like cheap insurance. What else can you do with them? For starters, you can mill a step in each jaw. Do this after installing a new set of jaws and tramming them in. Since you cut the step using the machine's motion, you can be sure that the step is dead accurate relative to that motion. That accuracy is what loose nuts was referring to, I think. Now you use the step like a set of built-in parallels. Really nice!


Yes that is exactly what I meant, and should have stated, Bad Loosenut Bad loosenut.

Once a set of soft jaws have been skimmed they shouldn't need to be touched until the vise is moved and reset, unless something happens to interfere with there accuracy they will give your vise the most accuracy that your mill can provide..

What material do you make yours out of? Aluminum or soft steel?

there is a web page that gives a good description of them and there use in a home shop, try this.

http://rick.sparber.org/ 

look under metal working/machining


----------



## NickG (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi John,

Yes I am quite impressed by the new mill so far. The torque is good down to about 50 rpm (probably no lower), it's a 1.5 hp motor. I was quite surprised by it's quality actually, the slideways work smoothly all the way to the extreme ends of travel and again, surprisingly, it's all adjusted pretty well, by my standards anyway, probably not by yours! All I have done is clean off the gunky vegetable fat or whatever it is and oil the slideways. It actually has proper taper adjustable gib strips by the looks of it. Having said all of this, I'm yet to use it in anger. 

I don't think the dials are particularly accurate, it has a DRO (not a real one but you know the digital slides, vernier caliper type) on the spindle and I plan to fit them on the x and y, not sure if I'll need another ful z axis digital scale. 

Nick

ps yours looks great though, have you tried it yet?!


----------



## BobWarfield (Aug 15, 2008)

LooseNut, I prefer "aluminium" (in honor of the thread owner I'll use the proper spelling and pronunciation, LOL) soft jaws.

First, I know of machinists that don't even bother tramming the vise. They toss a set of softjaws in, mill a slot, and that's the tram. It works, but you're stuck with just the step. It's a nuisance to change the jaws frequently, so I try to make sure I've trammed and can also use parallels. 

Second, the aluminum wears out faster, but it doesn't mar the workpiece. I like that. I haven't had any issues with it not holding tightly enough or getting marred to the point they loose precision.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Divided He ad (Aug 16, 2008)

Well John, between yourself and Steve (Cedge) I am going to become far more accurate over the next few months!! :bow: 

Bob/Loosenut, your input is very eye opening too.... I'd never heard of soft jaws in a mill before!! 


I love this site! :-*   (just for Kludge!!! ... see his Aloha post!! ;D ) 


What would us know nothings do if you guys didn't share?!?!


Thank you all, and keep giving away all your secrets  







Ralph.


----------



## SmoggyTurnip (Aug 16, 2008)

When I first got my mill (X3 from Grizzly) It needed to be trammed so I measured, added shims - measured ,added shims, measured added shims etc. After about 4 hours I had it all trued up. About a year later I had to tram it again but this time I thought I might write a program to figure out what the shims need to be. So I wrote a little program called QuickTram. I expected it might help but I was prepared to do several iterations and spend hours getting it right. To my suprise it worked dead on on the first try. Here is a screen shot of the program:






It should work on any mill that has the column attached with 4 bolts in a square pattern. Enter the radius that the arm holding the DTI sweeps out, the distance between centers of the bolts of the column, the width of the table and the DTI readings.

The DTI readings are taken from the 4 places that the DTI leaves the table as the DTI is swept around in a circle.

I used aluminum foil for the shims that were calculated to be .0005 thick. This was done by taking 256 pieces and compressing them in a vise, measuring the distance between the vise jaws and dividing by 256.

When I did my test the program told me I needed 8, shims in one corner, 6 in another, 1 in another and 0 in the last.

I put those shims in and then ran the DTI around ant to my great surprise the DTI read within .0001 everywhere.

Maybe it was a coincidence, I hope someone else could give it a try and see if it would work for them.


----------



## crankshafter (Aug 16, 2008)

SmoggyTurnip  said:
			
		

> When I first got my mill (X3 from Grizzly) It needed to be trammed so I measured, added shims - measured ,added shims, measured added shims etc. After about 4 hours I had it all trued up. About a year later I had to tram it again but this time I thought I might write a program to figure out what the shims need to be. So I wrote a little program called QuickTram. I expected it might help but I was prepared to do several iterations and spend hours getting it right. To my suprise it worked dead on on the first try. Here is a screen shot of the program:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hello Smoggy.
Is it possible that you can upload the program ;D it will be werry helpful for many of us.
PS: and if you have add. a "metric button" :big: :bow: :bow:


----------



## Bogstandard (Aug 16, 2008)

Smoggy,

That is just the sort of thing that is needed. I looks like it has become popular already.
If I still had my old mill/drill, I could have used that to put it right.

Maybe something like your prog will give hope to a few people that have fixed column machines that are out of tram. 

Nice one

John


----------



## SmoggyTurnip (Aug 16, 2008)

crankshafter  said:
			
		

> Hello Smoggy.
> Is it possible that you can upload the program ;D it will be werry helpful for many of us.
> PS: and if you have add. a "metric button" :big: :bow: :bow:



I would upload it if I knew how.


----------



## SmoggyTurnip (Aug 16, 2008)

I figured out how to upload it and so I did.

Also it will work in any metric system - you just have to be consistant with the units. So enter everything in inches or centimers bushels or whatever. The results will be in the same units. Note the DTI readings must be multiplied by 1000 before entering. I know an easy way to multiply by 1000 if you need help.


----------



## Loose nut (Aug 17, 2008)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> LooseNut, I prefer "aluminium" (in honor of the thread owner I'll use the proper spelling and pronunciation, LOL) soft jaws.



Putting the extra "i" in it just makes it harder to pronounce, even the spell checker rejects it.
I can smell a flame war comin' about this one.


----------



## Divided He ad (Aug 17, 2008)

Aluminium.... Nope, no rejection here!! .... Must have been taught to spell it correctly in school!! :big:   :big: 



Ralph.


----------



## BobWarfield (Aug 18, 2008)

Used to work with a bunch of Brits, one of whom collected model steam locos (Japanese made, the maker escapes me) and had a proper Garden Railway right here in sunny California. I helped him fabricate some radio control parts for one of them. Anyway, I took great delight in always using the "alu-min-i-um" form with them and they in turn were very careful to say "alu-mi-num". 

They were a fine group of fellows to work with.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## wla421 (May 8, 2010)

Great information,

I will be receiving my Optimum 20L shortly and am looking for tips such at this article.

George


----------



## pete (May 8, 2010)

Bogs,
As per usual a very clear demonstration of leveling and tramming. I'd also agree with who ever mentioned about writing articals like this for Model Engineers Workshop magazine. The only thing I could possibly add is with a Bridgeport syle machine, After you finish tramming the machine it should be rechecked after fully tightening the bolts in both tilt and nod. Also after tightening these bolts then back the worms off to a backlash condition. By this I mean that the worms used to rotate and nod the head should be free to turn with your fingers in each direction. Under cutting conditions and especialy fly cutting the vibration at times can be just enough to slightly move the head in the direction the worm is preloaded in. I can't prove this is so but it does make logical sense. (at least to me it does)

Pete


----------



## Blogwitch (May 8, 2010)

Pete,

There is no 'nod' on my machine, it looks and acts like a Bridgy, but it has no powered downfeed or nodding head. Two things less to worry about, as both of these items do seem to have problems associated with them.

I have never had any trouble with the worms moving the head, but I did have trouble with it moving when I left the power feed on and it took a brand new non rotating cutter and dragged it across the top surface of my brand new vice. A constant and embarrasing, clear view reminder to always check your power feeds are off.

Bogs


----------



## pete (May 8, 2010)

Bogs,
OUCH, While that is a good reminder of a past mistake it still has to hurt every time you look at it. I've just bought 2 matched vices for my Bridgeport clone mill (Bemato) I figure I've just doubled my chances of running an end mill or cutting tool into them. When, Not if? I do so I'll know exactly how you feel. Hell, Even the pros do this at times so I guess were in good company.

I still maintain that the worm or worms should be backed off tho, It can't hurt and might? help. Just my point of view.

I do know a guy with a new Jet mill very close to mine without the nod feature, If? Your mill wasn't dead on in the Y axis did you have much trouble shimming it into correct alignment? I'd also agree with you about the lack of this nod on your mill as this can only make these type of mills more rigid and more accurate. It is handy for aligning my mills head in the Y axis tho.

Pete


----------



## Blogwitch (May 8, 2010)

Pete,

I did check when I set the machine up, and since. The Y axis tram is much less than half a thou, even when the top ram is moved in and out for horizontal milling, so for me, that is good enough. I don't think I could shim it any closer than that.

I have since made a proper tramming tool.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=822.0

It takes very little time to check the X tram and adjust if necessary.


Bogs


----------



## pete (May 8, 2010)

Bogs,
Thanks for the answer, I'll be sure to pass that along. I'd like to add that this forum would be a lesser place without your postings.

Pete


----------



## wizardofwood (May 8, 2010)

Another thing I found worthwhile to check on a new machine vice is that the fixed jaw
is perpendicular to the base. After the head is trammed attach a dial indicator to the spindle nose
and run it down the face of the fixed jaw. I had a vice that was running out 0.05 over 50mm, makes it
hard to get faces square to each other.


----------



## pete (May 9, 2010)

Wiz. 
Also another good tip. Trust nothing. Alltho accurate checking of equipment you just bought can certainly ruin your day when you find out just how inaccurate some of this stuff really is, In reverse it always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when items check out to be dead on. Adjustable items like Bogs post here about tramming are great. It's the non ajustable items like hardened vices that really hurt when you don't have access to a surface grinder.

Pete


----------



## Blogwitch (May 9, 2010)

Pete,

You are spot on with your advice.

I did all this set up work because I was in a mini production environment where quality and spot on sizing were the most important parts of the job, and I went to great lengths to achieve that.

Nowadays, that pressure is now no longer there, so if something is say 1/2 a thou out, in say tram or vice adjusting, I wouldn't even bother trying to adjust it out. 

As long as the bits I make fit together as they should, that is good enough, although I do try to get most things as perfect as I can, within my own bodily limits. 

Old habits die hard.


Bogs


----------



## pete (May 9, 2010)

Bogs,
LOL, yes, I'd certainly agree, Both good and BAD habits do die hard. With machining I started this late enough in life I decided that it was just as easy to learn good habits as the bad, So most? times I try and do it the correct way. So far this has worked well for me. Constant reading of books and forums like this help a lot.The ability to sort out the good information from the bad does take a long time to learn but it's well worth it. I'm not kissing butt, It's postings like yours that make it enjoyable to even be here. There is a huge majority on this forum that I think the same about.

Pete


----------



## VapeurCorlay (Nov 29, 2010)

wHAT A LOAD OF OLD CRAP mR bUGS Mahinesa don't need to be levelld lik that at all as long as they have a datum. You are leading all these poor people astray and frightening them.

Kerv


----------



## ksouers (Nov 29, 2010)

Mr Corlay,
You have been registered for a grand total of 7 minutes and your first post is to pick a fight with Bogs?

I suggest you learn some manners, sir.


----------



## Blogwitch (Nov 29, 2010)

Don't worry Kevin, I have been in a real foul mood for the last couple of weeks, and it is still brewing, so I should have no trouble seeing this a**ehole off for good if needs be.

I will wait for his reply as to why everything I have said is incorrect, and his reasons as to why, then I can pull him to pieces, one tiny bit at a time, just like I did last week with one over on MM, when he decided to upset me with a snide remark.

Bogs


----------



## Ken I (Nov 29, 2010)

Beware of "Refurbished" machines.

I once bought a "refurbished" Bridgeport which had all its ways reground and scraped.

The knee moved from left to right 1.2mm over its full stroke and from front to back by 0.6mm - it was however dead square - but otherwise useless.

It was sent back !

Rather buy one "warts & all".

Trust nothing is a good motto.

Leveling really isn't that critical but is always good practice - particularly if you ever want to set an angle with an inclinometer - in which case it's critical.

I also use soft jaws (Aluminium) - it allows your mill to be as accurate as it can be without a lot of fiddling around.

Apart from a stepped register, you can also mill vertical and horizontal "Vees" which is great for holding round stock.

Yeah, you do have to skim them every time you remove and replace the vice (or reclock them) but for really accurate work, skimming is best.

Regards,
      Ken


----------



## Blogwitch (Nov 29, 2010)

Ken,

You are absolutely correct about not having to have the mill level, and I think I explained very early on in the first post that there are definite advantages to actually having it very close or spot on.

I don't expect my words to be taken as gospel, as that is just the way I personally do things, but there would be no way I would give bad information just to make people follow my lead.

Lathes on the other hand are a completely different kettle of fish. You can in fact use them without being level, but they have to be rigidly mounted and the twist must be non existent, or as close as you can physically get it, and by getting it level and solid in all directions, it makes that twist much easier to check and control.

Bogs


----------



## steamer (Nov 29, 2010)

Actually, I'll jump into this ....


I have read and of the opinion that leveling is important to any precision machine tool.

Here's why.

The first thing a manufacturer does is level base of the machine. Then everything else is fitted to it (I'm kinda cutting to the chase here....there is a lot of fitting going on.)

All the alignments and checks are based on the machine being level.  Now if you say....set it on 2 or the 4 feet....OK extreme, but I'm making a point , you will load the machine in a way differant that it was fitted and aligned to.

We do need to remember, all of our machies are flexible , they sag and twist, and this twist can affect our work directly, and it can cause unintended wear of moving parts that put together while the machine was level.

Additionally, I have seen lathe beds ( mine in particular) that was stored for years WAY out of level, and when I got it, it had a definite twist....that has slowly come back out, over the course of about a year....I was constantly chasing it, and it got better and better.....today she seems healthy, and level! ;D

I would also say it is more prevelent in larger machines than the small ones

Just to show there is exceptions, my VanNorman has a base foot that is 5" thick, and when I got it he was sitting on 3 of 4 pads and was visibly rocking!.all 1900 pounds...The VanNorman didn't care.... ;D

Affixing the bullseye squarely on my forehead......

Dave


----------



## Maryak (Nov 30, 2010)

From the other side,

Have a look at the engineers workshop in an aircraft carrier or even better a destroyer, (no surface grinder, no mill), then ask me about twist and level and........................ The guys still manage to do some pretty respectable work despite the environment.

Much better if you can have all the things lined up and bedded down however for all but very high precision ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? so IMHO don't bust you tender parts too much

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## Ken I (Nov 30, 2010)

I supply and install robots for a living - these can be hung upside down or bolted to a wall - but we still precision level them for future reference purposes.

Just simply good practice.

Regards,
      Ken


----------

