# Merryweather Fire King - a novice build



## Bob Wild (Feb 13, 2020)

This thread is to describe my progress in building the above fire engine. I first came across the plans in a magazine article published in 1908 here http://www.john-tom.com/MyPlans/SteamPlans2/Fire Engine 1908/ModelEngineerFireEngine1908Small.pdf
If you look you will see the drawings leave a lot to the imagination. So my first challenge was to produce my own using Fusion 360. Attached is my progress to date. Some time later I came across a full set of plans from a French website drawn by a guy in New Zealand!  So far I’ve started on the chassis and the front suspension. 
One of the reasons for starting this thread is hopefully to get some help in stuff that is new to me. Starting with the leaf springs 
a) How on earth do I form the 4mm eyes at each end?
b) The material used is spring steel. It is currently in the anealed state. What is the best way to harden an temper them?

I’m attaching a few pictures of my progress so far. Also a roller bender which I made and a proper drawing from the guy in New Zealand


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## gg89220 (Feb 14, 2020)

hello
I already made this truck, for the spring leaves I used strapping
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/fire-truck.25849/


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## Bob Wild (Feb 14, 2020)

gg89220 said:


> MView attachment 113818
> hello
> I already made this truck, for the spring leaves I used strapping
> https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/fire-truck.25849/



hi. That is really an interesting thread, which fills me with hope. The video is terrific. I was a bit apprehensive about the wooden wheels, but having seen yours I might have a go. Did you make the spokes parallel so you could feed them in easily. It looks to me as if tapered ones would be a nightmare. I’ve nearly finished forming the transverse spring. Still not sure about bending the eyes. And as I said earlier, I’ve no experience with heat treatment. I suppose a bit of experimentation is called for. 
Bob


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## gg89220 (Feb 15, 2020)

hi


Bob Wild said:


> Still not sure about bending the eyes.


heat the ends red and allow to cool slowly to soak


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## Bob Wild (Feb 15, 2020)

Thanks for the advice. But I’ll be a bit delayed as I have to take the family skiing


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## Bob Wild (Mar 11, 2020)

First spring done. Only four more to go. Quite pleased my homemade bender worked a treat. 













52ADDC0C-89C2-468C-9BCF-44E671042BC8



__ Bob Wild
__ Mar 11, 2020


















43D67C1D-CA26-47EC-8E22-339597821DF6



__ Bob Wild
__ Mar 11, 2020


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## Bob Wild (Mar 27, 2020)

Well, I’ve finally made all the springs. Here’s the bender in action. But more of that later



I made a jig to bend the eyes. It is made from a thick piece of hardwood beech that I had lying around with a template drawing glued to it and a couple of pins at the centre of the eyes. My intention was to swage the metal round the pins, but my first attempt was a failure because they were too short. So I replaced them with pins an inch long and those worked just fine. I formed the eyes with a length of bar and a big hammer.






And finally I have five springs. Quite pleased. Next job is all the mounting brackets and (peculiar) axles.






Enjoy, Bob


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## awake (Mar 28, 2020)

Beautiful results!


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## Aussie (Mar 28, 2020)

Good afternoon, in the rainy antipodes.

Was sorting through some digests, and found Bob’s thread.

I have the  1908  drawings, and the DeWal drawings, but hadn’t come across this video before, but have seen another, of a larger scale unit running along streets under radio control.  Will have to hunt up the link for you.

I also have a set of Model Engineer articles, by Gunther Kallies, and a set of plans for Edger Westbury’s  1894  Shane Mason horse drawn model.

My plan  (dream  !!,)  is to build them in tandem.  I suspect that I will find the Shane Mason easier, as I have access to a full size working machine, via the Fire Services Museum of Victoria.

Along with these models, I also have several side by side, and fore and aft, hand pumps, of British, and German patterns.  Again, having access to full size working models is not making it completely easy, as trying to  “scale down”  the mechanisms is being difficult.

One of my great worries has been springs, but I may have a partial solution, in that I‘m going to experiment with salvaged motor mower starter springs.  Failing that, with your blessing, I’ll copy your method, if I may.

The other  “terror”  I’ve been trying to figure out is the shaping of the wheel spokes, but I may follow  gg8920’s  lead, and go for straight spokes.

Respectfully

Ian Munro


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## Bob Wild (Mar 29, 2020)

Hi Ian,

Nice to read your comments and interest. Like you I have quite a few concerns. I agree about the wheels. In 1 inch scale, making them from wood seems daunting and I was also going to make then with straight spokes. I cheated with the springs. I started off with spring steel, but abandoned that in favour of mild steel. Much easier to work, and the weight of the model won't require much flexing. The bender I made worked admirably and working with a paper template was quite satisfactory.

My big worry is the crankshaft. The first model that I built was a Stuart Turner 10v, and it looks to have more or less the same size cylinder. I'm thinking about using two of these, but I'm not very happy about making the crankshaft with the two valve eccentrics in the middle. So I'm thinking of turning the cylinders through 180 degrees so I can slide the eccentrics on from the outside of the cranks. I think there's enough room to do this, but I'm still working on it with Fusion 360. We shall see! In the meantime my next challenge is to figure out how to make the front axle mountings which are offset in two planes. A bit of head scratching there to come up with a suitable jig.

Cheers,

Bob


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## Bob Wild (Apr 3, 2020)

I wasn’t confident about bending the u-bolts to get the  threads in the right place, so I prefabricated them and silver soldered the parts together.

Before, with a strip in place to  keep the alignment






A bit of cleaning up and this is the result






Next was the forming of the rear axle - a semi-circle to clear the boiler. My first attempt was a dismal failure. The strip was far too thick for my bender; I managed to snap off the handle! So I resorted to shear force and bent it round a piece of brass which was 31/2 in dia. Allowing for the springiness of the material I ended up with a semi-circle which was 4 in dia. This was soldered to the axle which started off at the full width and trimmed after it was soldered.







And finally I had all the parts :






This is the rear axle assembly


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## Bob Wild (Apr 3, 2020)

There were hints of rust so I decided to paint the two axle assemblies:

The rear






The front





Both on the chassis 






Next up, the steering gear


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## Bob Wild (May 8, 2020)

Finished the steering gear and moved on to the drivers seat. Couldn’t resist the temptation to paint it. Well it is Fire Engine Red








Next job is to start on the engine and pumps. I’m a bit daunted by the pumps. They are made from two large blocks of brass with a lot of milling.





There are two like this. My main worry is about the water passages. I have to drill two right through the length of the body with the remaining holes at right angles. After that the design calls for the long holes to be plugged at either end. A question for the experts - what is the best way of achieving a water tight seal on such a plug? I can think of a few ways of doing this - glue, silver solder, soft solder, force fit. Which is best? Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
Bob


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## gg89220 (May 9, 2020)

hello
I think I put on tight plugs


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## Bob Wild (May 9, 2020)

Thanks gg89220. I’ll try that. What about the connecting pipe between the two pump bodies? Is that an interference fit too?

Bob


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## gg89220 (May 10, 2020)

hello
for pipe 5.07 a tin solder on the top and a sealant on the bottom


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## Bob Wild (Sep 26, 2020)

Time for an update. Here are all the water pump parts




Modified the accumulator to be the same as the one I made for Tubal Cain’s Lady Stephanie. I thought it looked prettier!




Used my homemade ball turner, which worked quite well.




And this is the complete assembly mounted on its manifold.




A big worry of mine was how to keep everything in line. So I used a pair of rods through each of the engine cylinders and pump cylinders, and then clamped them together before drilling the holes for the mounting shafts.




All went fine wrt to lining things up. You can just make out a 4 mm rod going from the engine bottom cover and through the pump top cover.
But I now have a few problems:
1. The original design of the pumps used a casting, but I had to prefabricate them using the pump body and mounting plate screwed together. But then I realised that there was only a millimetre face to seal. I thought this was much too small for a sealing face, so I decided to solder them together. But my big problem now is how to clean up the parts. I soaked them in cleaning agent to get rid of the gunge but am now left with (copper?) staining. How can I get rid of that?
2. I’m really worried about leaks and think I should pressure test the pumps before I go further. I can seal off the pump top cover and manifold outlet but how do you pump water into the inlet?
3. What about sealing the joints? I’ve got some Hylomar. Is that any good for the screwed joints? And for the flat faces should I use a paper gasket and maybe some Hylomar as well?

Any helpful suggestions would be most appreciated.

Bob


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## Bob Wild (Oct 8, 2020)

Solved the pressure test problem when I realised the Fire King already had a hand pump for boiler feed. So I can use that:




And it works:





Still worried about how to make the seals

Bob


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## a41capt (Oct 9, 2020)

This is a really great looking project Bob.  I just saw it for the first time and your work looks great.  As far as the “fire engine red”, being a retired 42 year firefighter, is there any other color to paint a fire engine?

Nice work!
John W


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## goldstar31 (Oct 9, 2020)

a41capt said:


> As far as the “fire engine red”, being a retired 42 year firefighter, is there any other color to paint a fire engine?
> 
> 
> John W



During 1953 we had 'Green Goddesses' as extra vehicles in the even of a nuclear war.
During the WW2 Blitz in London, we had concrete fire floats. In 1941 when I had just joined the Boy Scouts, I got my 'Fireman's Badge'. What colour the Auxiliary Fire Service had- I simply cannot remember.
What I have, however is a 'tin hat with Fire stencilled on it and a service respirator in a pleasing shade of khaki(☺) and my late wife's 'Mickey Mouse' respirator. All I have really is my little fireman' axe which I dug out unexploded incendiary bombs.  As a Goldstar in RAF 31 Squadron, I had my battle dress tunic which came from the Royal Observer Corps. What colour our 'blood wagons' were- I would guess RAF Airforce Blue.
Meantime W/Bro John-
 S&F

Norman  at 90!


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## a41capt (Oct 9, 2020)

goldstar31 said:


> During 1953 we had 'Green Goddesses' as extra vehicles in the even of a nuclear war.
> During the WW2 Blitz in London, we had concrete fire floats. In 1941 when I had just joined the Boy Scouts, I got my 'Fireman's Badge'. What colour the Auxiliary Fire Service had- I simply cannot remember.
> What I have, however is a 'tin hat with Fire stencilled on it and a service respirator in a pleasing shade of khaki(☺) and my late wife's 'Mickey Mouse' respirator. All I have really is my little fireman' axe which I dug out unexploded incendiary bombs.  As a Goldstar in RAF 31 Squadron, I had my battle dress tunic which came from the Royal Observer Corps. What colour our 'blood wagons' were- I would guess RAF Airforce Blue.
> Meantime W/Bro John-
> ...



Glad to hear from you Norman, and keep those annual rotations around the sun going please!  90 and still kickin’


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## Bill Lawson (Oct 10, 2020)

I have seen white (not the manufacture) fire trucks.  Also, I recall seeing chartreuse emergency vehicles.


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## Bob Wild (Oct 10, 2020)

Thanks chaps for your comments, and especially Norman for your memories. I’m a spring chicken in my seventies but remember the tales from my mum and dad; he was at Chatham barracks at the start of the war and then was posted to South Africa but left my mum to survive the blitz in Gillingham. Not surprisingly I was born exactly nine months after the end of the war!!!!


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## a41capt (Oct 10, 2020)

Bill Lawson said:


> I have seen white (not the manufacture) fire trucks.  Also, I recall seeing chartreuse emergency vehicles.


To those folks, I always ask “When are you going to finish painting that engine?”, or “Will you finish painting it when you get some more money?”


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## goldstar31 (Oct 11, 2020)

Thanks Chaps! Maybe an old British 1943 film might lighten  wht is a very serious profession.
I recalled as a 13 year old 'The Bells Go Down' and now after all these years since, there is a couple of videos. One isof London's Embankment on the River Thames- still pockmarked from the Blitz whilst the other is an extract from the old film which will show what was used then but all with the British sense of humour.

Do enjoy, please


Norman


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## Aussie (Oct 12, 2020)

G’day Goldstar31

I may have missed something, but the links to the video’s aren’t showing.

Interested in which ones they are, for historic research purposes.

Respectfully

Ian Munro
Fire Services Museum of Victoria.


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## goldstar31 (Oct 12, 2020)

As my son will testify, I have little skills in knowing how to find my way around the internet and trust that interested parties will realise that I have recalled a gem but at 90 years of age, I'm a bit slow, ignorant or otherwise hopeless. I'm worse than that but modesty prevails.

So Ian, I appreciate why you want to add to the contents of your museum and to both seriously inform of the courage of firefighters all over the world but amuse those interested with a bit of humour that say the Brits through 6 years of bitter war. I have the greatest respect as my own father was in Civil Defence but he was prepared for poison gas attacks which never happened but being a sapper in an earlier war went out to fight both unexploded bombs and also incendiaries.
So you are looking for a film or two. Google WILL if examined meticulously reveal that there is , there was a 1943 film = The Bells Go Down produced for general release of the amateur firemen of the Auxiliary Fire Service. Laughs put to one side, the film depicts the trailer pumps many of them made by the Dennis company who, incidentally are still making fire engines-- but in red not olive green.
You will find that the film not only includes what were the best of British actors but actual off duty firefighters that took there place in the London blitz. 
Looking at the cast, there was Tommy Trinder and James Mason and if you can't get at the films go and search out Trinder in one of the many sources of his films.

Again, and far more popular is the film 'The Battle of Britain'. Of course its base is true but obviously contains true extracts of what really happened and a bit of it takes the viewer into the heart of London during an air raid- with an unexploded bomb and well, I'll not stop the drama. As a boy of perhaps ten but then I'll stop and recall my little granddaughter whose great grandfather's tin hat and respirator lie in my loft. So far little Elizabeth's précis of WW2 was that 'Grandad was beside an unexploded bomb- which killed a cow' 
So please let me know - because my uncle drove an ambulance in an earlier war and my Australian cousin drove a field ambulance both in the Western Desert and then New Guinea. 

Somewhat bitterly, I wrote a few days ago about a new 'jet pack' which was suitable for rescue workers.

It was a dead duck' and yesterday, a light aircraft crashed near to where the tests in the English Lake District were conducted. Yes, the pilot was killed!
So I hope that you find what is there and somebody else may find you the information. 

Norman


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## Aussie (Oct 13, 2020)

Thank you Norman;

My get out computer trouble, is  No. 1  son, who is Support Team Manager / Team Leader, with  IBM.  If he can’t fix it, it’s  xxx??d.

I am aware of both films you mention, and have copies of them.  I was thinking that you had uncovered others, as I believe that they exist.

Also, downunder, in the Antipodes, we had our own version of  AFS,  in each State,  (although the name varied, from state to state, but the function was the same.)  However, we were lucky, mostly, in that we didn’t have the air raids you had, most of the AFS  trained but rarely went into action.  One case in Melbourne during a major exercise, an Air Force plane crashed in the paddock nearby.  That is probably the closest any came to action.

One of my ongoing projects, is to eventually write this all up, so any reference material I can gather helps.  Looking at your  AFS  helps fill in the gaps in lack of information, as most of surviving training manual were produced by  H.M.S.O.,  and sent to the colonies.

Take car, and keep well.

Respectfully

Ian


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## goldstar31 (Oct 13, 2020)

thanks Ian for your comments.  As I've said, I haven't a "fire Brigade" connection -- apart from my late father i law doing a driving test on an engine and doing an emergency stop with the examiner sitting on a box. Of course, he slid across the bonnet! After that he was conscripted and  loke me- joined The 'Goldstars' He ended up with his name on a garden seat at the National Arboretum!


However, there are at least two 'Fire Brigade' Museums in London-- and lat year or, I found a Chinese Dragon as part of the equipment in a Soho Fire Station! Sort outside the United Grand Lodge of England.

But to Fire Brigades etc in War and there seems to be a fire pump which ended up as a race or rally car engine.  I suspect that it went into uprated stuff  ex Rootes Group Hillmam Imps. 
Worth a  bit of a research project perhaps.
Of course, I had the local Pompiers to thank after my wife and I had a car crash- Italian Job style in the french Alps. I was Mountain Rescue rather than your equally important function.

Going back a bit- there is a College  in Moreton inthe Marsh in Gloucestershire.  Yes, I 've got a couple, perhaps more firefighters in my assorted lodges and chapters-- but  all of us are sort of old-- and in lockdown .
If I think of anything relevant, I'll ccontact you.

Meantime

My Thanks and Best Wishes

Norman

 Errata


It was Coventry Climax and Formula1


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## Steamchick (Oct 14, 2020)

Aussie said:


> Thank you Norman;
> 
> My get out computer trouble, is  No. 1  son, who is Support Team Manager / Team Leader, with  IBM.  If he can’t fix it, it’s  xxx??d.
> 
> ...


Can I buy a No.1 Son on ebay? Just had a 20 minute nightmare trying to reset passwords because AOL have changed something!
Enjoying the thread!
K


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## Steamchick (Oct 14, 2020)

Steamchick said:


> Can I buy a No.1 Son on ebay? Just had a 20 minute nightmare trying to reset passwords because AOL have changed something!
> Enjoying the thread!
> I owned a couple of Triumph engines - 500cc OHV  twins. Called GP500 (Grand Prix) - based on the WW2 fire-pump engine produced by Triumph. They made thousands during WW2. Used by motorcycle racers until new racing engines - T100C   - came out in 1955, with their first splayed intake and exhaust pipes, instead of the GP's straight inlet and straight (parallel) exhaust configuration. The Fire-pump barrels has drilling/tapping for fixing the forced air cooling cowls. The true GP barrels didn't have them drilled and tapped, and used lumpier cams. Probably higher compression pistons as well. I think my GP had 9:1 pistons, but the fire-pump engines had 7:1 for the low octane WW2 fuel.
> Not sure about the Coventry Climax SO engine, but the Hillman Imp engine was a derivation. I remember taking 1/4 inch off Imp cylinder heads for car rallying engine builders in the 1960s. Just a Saturday morning job "for the Lad" - me - as it was easy when the head was mounted on a fixture in the lathe (20 ft long, 18 inch swing radius). We also skimmed a lot of warped heads back to flat on the surface grinder. I remember the smell of the aluminium Imp heads being much harsher than the smell of cast iron cylinder heads when being ground... but much easier, as the head was traversed over the horizontal grinder by hand (mine), and light alloy or mini-heads were much easier than 6 cylinder large diesel heads!
> ...


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## goldstar31 (Oct 14, 2020)

Ken

 I do recall Both engines- and I also recall from my RAF Squadron days Villiers air compressors used by the Aircraft Finishers mob because we had lots of fabric coverings.
Again, I recall a David Hassauser- the spelling maybe wrong- building Clan Crusaderscars at 
Washington  Tyne and Wear which used tuned Imp Engines .   I was into tuned Mini Coopers and my wife had a Mk3 Triumph Spitfire. But WE were moving into property both here and abroad

of course the Coopers weighed over 4 hundred weight whilst the 'imps' could be carried.
Of course, I can't get insurance and whatever now.  There is, however, a Mercedes 230 SLK in the garage- ex my late wife and a Lotus Elise SE in  my sons. We've got some nice number plates!!!!
Actually property was much more challenging and lasted until 5 years ago when my wife died..]

Now the kids are getting the bug too

So there we are

Take care

Norman


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## Bob Wild (Nov 11, 2020)

These little brackets appear simple, but their making has been a nightmare 




The drawing suggests making them by bending 3mm strip. I didn’t feel confident in putting the bends in the right place, so I decided to make them from solid blocks. They were glued together and machined as one. As much material as possible was removed by chain drilling




and this is the result




The eagle eyed will have spotted that one of faces is twice as thick as the others. Because I am using Stuart cylinders I had to adjust the width of the bracket to fit. Somewhere along the line while allowing for the thickness of the material I miscalculated and ended up with brackets 3mm too wide! I couldn’t face scrapping them and starting again so I cut a bit off and screwed and glued another pice of angle. In the process I learnt how useful JB Weld is. 
While painting I thought I might as well paint the chassis.


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## Bob Wild (Nov 11, 2020)

Doh. Another bloomer. The assembly pic should have been at the end of the post. Here’s the picture of the brackets machined from solid


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## a41capt (Nov 11, 2020)

I’m really enjoying this build and I can’t wait to see it under steam and pumping!  Having been a fire engineer/driver tasked with fireground hydraulics calculations and operations, steam powered apparatus always piqued my interest!


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## Richard Hed (Nov 12, 2020)

Bob Wild said:


> Doh. Another bloomer. The assembly pic should have been at the end of the post. Here’s the picture of the brackets machined from solid
> View attachment 120771


They ended up nice, however, I would have tried angle iron pieces welded and trimmed up later.  No matter what one does, there are always probs.--that's why we do it.


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## Bob Wild (Nov 12, 2020)

Thanks chaps for your comments. Haven’t got any welding equipment so that was not an option. Interesting about the delivery calculations Capt - I’ll have to try and calculate what the twin cylinder double acting should pump out !


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## Bob Wild (Jan 13, 2021)

Oh this is so hard (for me). Not much progress in the last two months, but a lot of effort. Got the leak test going on the water pump and it failed miserably. The culprit being the soldering of the cylinders to their backplates. I figured out that I was paying too much attention to appearance by putting a neat bead of solder between the mating faces. So, two attempts later I finally smothered the joints with solder and ‘Bingo’. It finally was sealed OK.

The present nightmare is getting everything lined up. Each cross head has the water pump piston rod and the engine piston rod at opposite sides. The cross head thickness is 20mm and I would have liked to thread them both from the same side. But I don’t have any taps that long. So I had to tap them separately from each side. The only way I could think of to get the two rods aligned was to hit them with a big hammer (well a small one actually) and finally they do run more or less true. The challenge now is to get everything in line. That means four rods, four pistons, four crosshead columns and two cross heads with their column guides and crankshaft slots. Added to that I’be discovered that the pump rods are 10mm short (how did I miscalculate that?). So a bit more rework again! I did manage to get the crankshaft to rotate a bit until it fouled  so I’m quite hopeful in that respect. I did get a tip from another member where he suggested that you could drive the crankshaft with the mounting nuts fairly loose and progressively tighten them over a period of hours. We shall see!

And another thing, I‘ve just got round to drawing out the boiler (because it’s snowing outside and can’t work for more than an hour in the workshop). Goodness only knows how I’m going to make that with twelve curved fire tubes, a very complicated super heat tube, not to mention the conical body. But that’s for another day.
Bob


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## Richard Hed (Jan 13, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> Oh this is so hard (for me). Not much progress in the last two months, but a lot of effort. Got the leak test going on the water pump and it failed miserably. The culprit being the soldering of the cylinders to their backplates. I figured out that I was paying too much attention to appearance by putting a neat bead of solder between the mating faces. So, two attempts later I finally smothered the joints with solder and ‘Bingo’. It finally was sealed OK.
> 
> The present nightmare is getting everything lined up. Each cross head has the water pump piston rod and the engine piston rod at opposite sides. The cross head thickness is 20mm and I would have liked to thread them both from the same side. But I don’t have any taps that long. So I had to tap them separately from each side. The only way I could think of to get the two rods aligned was to hit them with a big hammer (well a small one actually) and finally they do run more or less true. The challenge now is to get everything in line. That means four rods, four pistons, four crosshead columns and two cross heads with their column guides and crankshaft slots. Added to that I’be discovered that the pump rods are 10mm short (how did I miscalculate that?). So a bit more rework again! I did manage to get the crankshaft to rotate a bit until it fouled  so I’m quite hopeful in that respect. I did get a tip from another member where he suggested that you could drive the crankshaft with the mounting nuts fairly loose and progressively tighten them over a period of hours. We shall see!
> 
> ...


Well Bob,
When I saw the title of this thread, I thot you were building a stove.  Since you have having heat problems in your shop, I would suggest you build a small rocket stove.  Rocket stoves are incredibly efficient with little smoke and the heat retained in your building and also takes up small room.  You can burn pallets and limbs, it doesn't take much.  About a 5th as much as a regular stove and even less if you compare it to a fireplace which is the most inefficient way to heat a room.

I had a large boiler I made (a prototype) in which I used quality metal but very rusty on the outside.  This was the water tube type and I had a difficult time fitting the tubes into the base.  I welded it up with stick and then tested it.  Well, it workt great except for a tiny pinhole that blew out a stream literaly about the size of a pin shaft.  I reworkt th ething and still the same pinhole.  I never got the pinhole out.  So for the next try I got some not rusty 4" base material and bought a WIRE FEED welder.  That was about 10 years ago and I haven't progressed from that any further.  
Boo hoo hoo, I thimk I will go killt myself (just kidding)


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## Steamchick (Jan 14, 2021)

Hi Bob, What size and design is the boiler? Fire pumps have always demanded the highest powered pumps so everything is designed almost to racing spec - to maximise pumping water for minimum engine. The boiler design will refect that!
Also what is the bore and stroke of the twin engine, and designed running pressure and speed?
If you can show the boiler design perhaps we can advise a build sequence?
Enjoy! It is your hobby!
K2


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## Bob Wild (Jan 14, 2021)

Thanks Richard  -  I have never heard of a rocket stove before, but just looked it up and it looks interesting.
Thanks Steamchick - don’t know much about the spec of the boiler, I’m just working from the drawings. As soon as I have put it into Solid Edge I’ll post it on here. 
Bob


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## Steamchick (Jan 14, 2021)

Thanks Bob.


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## Richard Hed (Jan 14, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> Thanks Richard  -  I have never heard of a rocket stove before, but just looked it up and it looks interesting.
> Thanks Steamchick - don’t know much about the spec of the boiler, I’m just working from the drawings. As soon as I have put it into Solid Edge I’ll post it on here.
> Bob


Glad that you consider this rocket stove idea.  Some are just simple out door stoves for a camp out, and some are permanent heater systems inside a house, but the house type designs are suitable for your shop if modified somewhat to reduce the "mass" and incorporate it into the design of your shop.  I can see that these rocket designs will certainly be used for heating homes in the future over fireplaces and even closed heating stoves by a wide margin.


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## Steamchick (Jan 14, 2021)

On "Rocket stoves" - but not...
I had a compost maker in the garden that was a tapered steel tube 15" diameter tapering to 10"and 6 ft. long. I decided it would make a good incinerator for woody stuff - partly dried. So I set it off with kindling and started to stuff it with twigs and branches. I used too much fuel and when that got going the whole thing glowed red hot for 2 or 3 feet in the middle - and there was 6 ft of blowlamp flame out of the top! The flame was 10" wide to 6" where it disappeared from view... I could not get near it and a painted wood greenhouse a few feet away started to  smoke, so I rigged the water hose to cool the greenhouse!! - My "rocket" burner was like a jet engine on re-heat! Sucking-in all the air it needed and burning the fuel as fast as it could! And it roared like one too! A lesson there: So take care not to over-fuel wood stoves. A little at a time and let them build to a controllable level.
In Norway (a Norwegian told me in the 1970s) they used a similar stove: Using wood shavings from the saw-mill, they compressed the shavings into a 10" cylinder with a hole through the middle 2"diameter. This fuel plug was then dropped into the burner - a simple cylinder of cast iron with an air damper at the bottom, and the top (exhaust) feeding a hot air duct to heat the log-cabin/house. The centre hole was lit, after which the damper closed to control the sawdust plug burning from the bore outwards, in a gentle burn - subject to the air damper. The Hot air from the heat exchanger pipe around the exhaust pipe meant the exhaust to "outside" was "cool enough to just warm your hands" - so being very efficient, and the clean hot air re-circulated around the house to warm it. The sawdust was free, but wood cost money, so they used the sawdust. Now it has a value as the base material for Kitchen furniture, so Norwegians use free hydro-electricity...
K2


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## goldstar31 (Jan 14, 2021)

I had no idea what a Rocket stove was- and Googled and found the instructions. 
OK I have a Mig to make one but will it get rid of everyone's leaves.  
I've got a Oak( Sessile) and  several horse chestnuts, an ash and a number of sycamores but most of these are NOT mine, Again, I have  fences and chestnuts full of unwanted ivy.
Mybe I should get someone to  clear it all and I cought get back into my little workshop

Decisions, decisions


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## Richard Hed (Jan 14, 2021)

Steamchick said:


> On "Rocket stoves" - but not...
> I had a compost maker in the garden that was a tapered steel tube 15" diameter tapering to 10"and 6 ft. long. I decided it would make a good incinerator for woody stuff - partly dried. So I set it off with kindling and started to stuff it with twigs and branches. I used too much fuel and when that got going the whole thing glowed red hot for 2 or 3 feet in the middle - and there was 6 ft of blowlamp flame out of the top! The flame was 10" wide to 6" where it disappeared from view... I could not get near it and a painted wood greenhouse a few feet away started to  smoke, so I rigged the water hose to cool the greenhouse!! - My "rocket" burner was like a jet engine on re-heat! Sucking-in all the air it needed and burning the fuel as fast as it could! And it roared like one too! A lesson there: So take care not to over-fuel wood stoves. A little at a time and let them build to a controllable level.
> In Norway (a Norwegian told me in the 1970s) they used a similar stove: Using wood shavings from the saw-mill, they compressed the shavings into a 10" cylinder with a hole through the middle 2"diameter. This fuel plug was then dropped into the burner - a simple cylinder of cast iron with an air damper at the bottom, and the top (exhaust) feeding a hot air duct to heat the log-cabin/house. The centre hole was lit, after which the damper closed to control the sawdust plug burning from the bore outwards, in a gentle burn - subject to the air damper. The Hot air from the heat exchanger pipe around the exhaust pipe meant the exhaust to "outside" was "cool enough to just warm your hands" - so being very efficient, and the clean hot air re-circulated around the house to warm it. The sawdust was free, but wood cost money, so they used the sawdust. Now it has a value as the base material for Kitchen furniture, so Norwegians use free hydro-electricity...
> K2


Har har har, that is too funni, I can just see that greenhouse getting hot and smoking.  The rocket stove has some additions in that the feed spot is rather small and the pipe is covered with some kind of ceramic like clay or terracotta or brick or anything to absorb the heat and release it slowly.  It also has ceramic or glass wool or some kind of insulation in the burning area or just above it in which heat is retained and gotten to the point that it automatically burns the "waste" fuel, that is, smoke!  So the fuel is close to if not 100% efficient.  And yes, these things are apparently so efficient you can put your hands in the exhaust and there is very little heat and virtually no smoke.  I can hardly wait to build one.


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## Richard Hed (Jan 14, 2021)

goldstar31 said:


> I had no idea what a Rocket stove was- and Googled and found the instructions.
> OK I have a Mig to make one but will it get rid of everyone's leaves.
> I've got a Oak( Sessile) and  several horse chestnuts, an ash and a number of sycamores but most of these are NOT mine, Again, I have  fences and chestnuts full of unwanted ivy.
> Mybe I should get someone to  clear it all and I cought get back into my little workshop
> ...


The chestnuts need to be dry and why would you want to burn leaves?  So the neighbors don't whine?  Leaves are what make good soil.


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## goldstar31 (Jan 14, 2021)

Richard, Richard!!!! When will you ever learn about the Englsh English
 We are a race that will happiliy spend 300 years  making  or trying to tame green grass to only grow an inch or less when it is programmed to grow TEN  inches and go to seed.
We don't want leaves on our manicured 'bowling green' lawns that the rest of the World will come thousands of miles to sdmire and more money than senesce to say that they have seen the Playing fields of Eton or being pnted in a punt up the Cherwell or the little Granta and  want to hear the Messiah sung by Huddersfiekld Choral Society.  We want to hear leather on willow and wear  whites and wear our school blazers o the Thames at Henley  or be got at by an annoyed males swan before going to listen to a virtually  confusing play by the Bard of Avon.
Then  we want to puff out our scrawny chests and try to  get into the Proms, to wear funny hats and sing 'Land of Hope and Glory'
Dammit Man!  That is what the REST of this Stupid World wants to emulate.
I still have a couple of 'Morning Suits[ with a black jacket and striped grey trousers with a white shirt and my gold Waltham chain hanging from my black waist coat and wearing  my  old 31 Squadron tie. We wear our evening suits and long Johns if there ever is a heat wave in England.


And- And -- the Rest of the World is pleased to copy us- mad that we are.


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## Richard Hed (Jan 14, 2021)

goldstar31 said:


> Richard, Richard!!!! When will you ever learn about the Englsh English
> We are a race that will happiliy spend 300 years  making  or trying to tame green grass to only grow an inch or less when it is programmed to grow TEN  inches and go to seed.
> We don't want leaves on our manicured 'bowling green' lawns that the rest of the World will come thousands of miles to sdmire and more money than senesce to say that they have seen the Playing fields of Eton or being pnted in a punt up the Cherwell or the little Granta and  want to hear the Messiah sung by Huddersfiekld Choral Society.  We want to hear leather on willow and wear  whites and wear our school blazers o the Thames at Henley  or be got at by an annoyed males swan before going to listen to a virtually  confusing play by the Bard of Avon.
> Then  we want to puff out our scrawny chests and try to  get into the Proms, to wear funny hats and sing 'Land of Hope and Glory'
> ...


Har har, that is too funni.  You should have been a bard yourself.


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## Bob Wild (Mar 19, 2021)

Finally got all the parts for the engine finished. First the crossheads:






and with the pistons and crankshaft:






and to show my new toy milling machine, working on the eccentric rods:










and finally the valve chest and other bits:






Spent ages lining everything up and getting things to move almost freely. I've got a way of mounting the assembly on the lathe so I can then try and run it in and get it rotating smoothly.

Next up are either the gears or the boiler. Both frighten me; never made any gears and the boiler seems so complicated it scares me sh**less!


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## a41capt (Mar 21, 2021)

Beautiful work!  As a 42 year firefighter that’s also in love with firefighting history and engineering, I’m in love with your project!

Did you know that even though we no longer utilize an operating engineer, the driver and pump operator is still called an “Engineer”?  They’re tasked with somewhat complicated hydraulics calculations regarding flow and pressure issues due to varying fireground conditions (input pressures/volumes, elevation, friction loss in hose and appliance, etc) and requires a pretty extensive testing process for promotion.

Highly sought after promotional opportunities, because who WOULD’NT want to drive a big red fire engine!


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## Steamchick (Mar 22, 2021)

Hi A41 Capt. 
When you can understand the Hydraulic system and make calculations under pressure (excuse the pun!) to get the water where you want it to fight a fire, I reckon you deserve the title "Engineer". Don't be shy, wear the badge with pride. In the words of a Greek (a very clever man) an "engineer" is someone who resolves problems "by the use of his Ingenuity". Also, "Ingenuity" is the combination of experience, taught and learned knowledge, and understanding of the problem, or of similar problems. Apparently Euclid and others discussed such things philosophically millennia before we had such things that we call "Engines". Archimedes is well known as a maker of "Engines of War" in Syracuse. Not a piston or spark-plug in any of them..., and the only fire was "Greek fire" - but later than Archimedes' "Engines". - Thought to be an ancient version of Napalm, perhaps with the addition of Sulphur and/or Phosphorus? (Sulphur is abundant on Mount Etna on Sicily for use by Archimedes, and on the Greek island of Nisyros and others, "*Phosphorus*" comes from the Greek word, which means "bringer of light."..???). Try  Greek Fire
Of course, Archimedes was probably the first Hydraulics Engineer anyway.... Archimedes - Wikipedia
I'm sure the historians will correct me, where I am in error here.
Thanks,
K2


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## a41capt (Mar 22, 2021)

Steamchick said:


> Hi A41 Capt.
> When you can understand the Hydraulic system and make calculations under pressure (excuse the pun!) to get the water where you want it to fight a fire, I reckon you deserve the title "Engineer". Don't be shy, wear the badge with pride. In the words of a Greek (a very clever man) an "engineer" is someone who resolves problems "by the use of his Ingenuity". Also, "Ingenuity" is the combination of experience, taught and learned knowledge, and understanding of the problem, or of similar problems. Apparently Euclid and others discussed such things philosophically millennia before we had such things that we call "Engines". Archimedes is well known as a maker of "Engines of War" in Syracuse. Not a piston or spark-plug in any of them..., and the only fire was "Greek fire" - but later than Archimedes' "Engines". - Thought to be an ancient version of Napalm, perhaps with the addition of Sulphur and/or Phosphorus? (Sulphur is abundant on Mount Etna on Sicily for use by Archimedes, and on the Greek island of Nisyros and others, "*Phosphorus*" comes from the Greek word, which means "bringer of light."..???). Try  Greek Fire
> Of course, Archimedes was probably the first Hydraulics Engineer anyway.... Archimedes - Wikipedia
> I'm sure the historians will correct me, where I am in error here.
> ...


I enjoyed my years as an “Engineer” with the fire department on both pumpers and ladder trucks.  The best times were as the tillerman steering the rear of the ladder truck!  I moved on to fire captain, battalion chief, assistant chief, and ended my career as chief of the department, but stuck with the nickname of A41Capt because of my time as the Fire Captain on A-Shift, Engine 41.

Now, if I could only improve my skillset as a model engineer to the level of Bob Wild...  Keep us posted with the progress Bob, I’m looking forward to her first steam up and water flow!!!

John W


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## Richard Hed (Mar 22, 2021)

Steamchick said:


> Hi A41 Capt.
> When you can understand the Hydraulic system and make calculations under pressure (excuse the pun!) to get the water where you want it to fight a fire, I reckon you deserve the title "Engineer". Don't be shy, wear the badge with pride. In the words of a Greek (a very clever man) an "engineer" is someone who resolves problems "by the use of his Ingenuity". Also, "Ingenuity" is the combination of experience, taught and learned knowledge, and understanding of the problem, or of similar problems. Apparently Euclid and others discussed such things philosophically millennia before we had such things that we call "Engines". Archimedes is well known as a maker of "Engines of War" in Syracuse. Not a piston or spark-plug in any of them..., and the only fire was "Greek fire" - but later than Archimedes' "Engines". - Thought to be an ancient version of Napalm, perhaps with the addition of Sulphur and/or Phosphorus? (Sulphur is abundant on Mount Etna on Sicily for use by Archimedes, and on the Greek island of Nisyros and others, "*Phosphorus*" comes from the Greek word, which means "bringer of light."..???). Try  Greek Fire
> Of course, Archimedes was probably the first Hydraulics Engineer anyway.... Archimedes - Wikipedia
> I'm sure the historians will correct me, where I am in error here.
> ...


I thot engineer was a Latin word.  No matter, the Romans had their "engines" , they were balistas and catapults and maybe trebuchets.


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## Cymro77 (Mar 22, 2021)

I certainly enjoy the banter and especially the workmanship of you characters!!  Wish my machining skills were half as good as what I see on this site!
keep up the entertainment - thanks for the opportunity to watch and learn.  My great grandfather lived up in Sunderland and South Shields family-operated Side wheel steam tugs on the river.  I rode in them as a yougster.


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## Bob Wild (Mar 22, 2021)

a41capt said:


> Now, if I could only improve my skillset as a model engineer to the level of Bob Wild...  Keep us posted with the progress Bob, I’m looking forward to her first steam up and water flow!!!
> 
> John W



John, you really flatter me. I still consider myself as very much a novice (the contents of my scrap bin bear witness to this) !!!


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## a41capt (Mar 22, 2021)




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## goldstar31 (Mar 23, 2021)

Cymro77 said:


> I certainly enjoy the banter and especially the workmanship of you characters!!  Wish my machining skills were half as good as what I see on this site!
> keep up the entertainment - thanks for the opportunity to watch and learn.  My great grandfather lived up in Sunderland and South Shields family-operated Side wheel steam tugs on the river.  I rode in them as a yougster.


Fascinating.  Pity poor old Don Ashton who was an expert on tugs wasn't about to respond.
Myself, been on the Blackmiddens on the North Side of the Tyne.  I used to sail and kayak .


I seem to recall Tyne Tugs and Lawson Batey.  Wasn't there a story of the Eppleton Hall? Too blind to read it but you should


Then there was France,, Fenwick?


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## goldstar31 (Mar 23, 2021)

Richard Hed said:


> I thot engineer was a Latin word.  No matter, the Romans had their "engines" , they were balistas and catapults and maybe trebuchets.


As far as I can discover 'engineer' was fro the Middle french 'Ingeneur' from which we get ingenuity 
That;
That's the best that I can offer.


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## Cymro77 (Mar 23, 2021)

goldstar31 said:


> Fascinating.  Pity poor old Don Ashton who was an expert on tugs wasn't about to respond.
> Myself, been on the Blackmiddens on the North Side of the Tyne.  I used to sail and kayak .
> 
> 
> ...


The Eppleton Hall was the Tug that my family members operated.  She was sailed over to USA after being restored.  Went through the Panama canal ending up in San Francisco in the maritime museum.  I visited her there - quite an emotional time for me.  She is now derelict once again as I understand.  The museum was taken over by National Park System that did not have the finances to maintain her


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## Chris W (Mar 23, 2021)

Cymro77 said:


> The Eppleton Hall was the Tug that my family members operated.  She was sailed over to USA after being restored.  Went through the Panama canal ending up in San Francisco in the maritime museum.  I visited her there - quite an emotional time for me.  She is now derelict once again as I understand.  The museum was taken over by National Park System that did not have the finances to maintain her


I had the opportunity to steam aboard Eppleton Hall in 1975. It was quite an experience! The politics at the Museum are a problem when it comes to Eppie. She really should be back on the Tyne where she has true historic significance. I recently saw a film of tugs working taken in 1962 and there was Eppie steaming merrily along.


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## goldstar31 (Mar 23, 2021)

I'm saddened by the possible end of the old boat. I didn't live on the coast, rather the extreme end of the tide reach off the Tyne. The Kissing Stone.


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## Steamchick (Mar 23, 2021)

Cymro77 said:


> The Eppleton Hall was the Tug that my family members operated.  She was sailed over to USA after being restored.  Went through the Panama canal ending up in San Francisco in the maritime museum.  I visited her there - quite an emotional time for me.  She is now derelict once again as I understand.  The museum was taken over by National Park System that did not have the finances to maintain her


Seen it, done it - a decade or more ago...
K2


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## Bob Wild (Mar 24, 2021)

Totally off-topic, but fascinating reading. Keep it up.

Bob


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## goldstar31 (Mar 24, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> Totally off-topic, but fascinating reading. Keep it up.
> 
> Bob



So there is the story of the two Tyne Tugs 'going to was' in Norway to bring home to her birthplace HMS Kelly. And then KG5 'sneaked out' unfinished to finish off ' and 'Sink the Bismarck'


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## Bob Wild (Mar 28, 2021)

Nearly finished the engine side of things, and starting to think about the boiler. Quite frankly it scares me sh****ss. So I have posted this thread to ask for help from a wider audience of experts:

Help, how on earth do I build the boiler for my Fire King?

Lets see what happens.

Bob


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## a41capt (Mar 29, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> Nearly finished the engine side of things, and starting to think about the boiler. Quite frankly it scares me sh****ss. So I have posted this thread to ask for help from a wider audience of experts:
> 
> Help, how on earth do I build the boiler for my Fire King?
> 
> ...


Looking forward to this part of your build Bob!
John W


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## Bob Wild (May 21, 2021)

Still struggling on. Finally got the engine assembled and after ages finding the tight spots (I now have a new meaning to the term “Quantitative Easing) it now turned over relatively smoothly. First run on air would not rotate, but there was a significant downward thrust at times. I had followed the dimensions in the book for the valve mechanism, which occurred to me was a metric conversion from the original imperial drawings. Upon reflection it occurred to me that there may be minor differences. So I reduced the width of the slide valve by ten thou each side. After a lot of fiddling with the timing - bingo, it run. It needed twenty psi to get it started, but it ran like the clappers and nearly shook itself off the bench! And then disaster. The crankshaft had come loose. I had prefabricated it, cross pinned it and loctited it, but two of the joints had come loose. So off to make another. I don’t think I can retrieve it so it’s a matter of staring from scratch. I’m wondering whether to persevere with loctite or to try and silver solder it or even soft solder it. I’m a bit concerned that if I use solder that it will distort. Help please, this is driving me mad!!!!!



Bob


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## Steamchick (May 22, 2021)

Loctite is as good as soft solder.
But I would silver solder the metal - before final machining of the main shaft. You must have a single aligned main-shaft - or wear bearings badly. Fit a spacer between the crank webs and set the crankshaft between centres for final machining. Off-set the shaft for final machining of the crank-pin(s). That is the hard bit:- You may be able to use a drill chuck set eccentrically in a 4-jaw-chuck. - That worked for me a couple of times.
Just ideas, there are many ways "to kill this pig".
Also U-tube videos if you look.
K2


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## Bob Wild (May 23, 2021)

Thanks Steamchick. Not sure what to do. The instructions suggest using 8mm silver  steel for the main shaft which is the finished size. I think I will try again with loctite and keep my fingers crossed 

Bob


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## Steamchick (May 25, 2021)

Can you pin the shafts to the webs?
K2


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## Bob Wild (May 25, 2021)

Yes I can. The previous attempt was pinned, but not very deeply. This time I will try to make them go right through to both sides of the web. Anyway I have a little time to think about it as SWMBO has insisted on me taking her on a rare trip in our caravan to the south of England !?!


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## Bob Wild (May 26, 2021)

And would you believe, I’ve found another Merryweather


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## Aussie (May 27, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> And would you believe, I’ve found another Merryweather View attachment 125895


Most interesting Bob, due you have any details of date, and location please.  The style indicates a fairly early model.


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## Aussie (May 27, 2021)

Any one want to play show me yours, and I’ll show you mine  ?


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## Bob Wild (May 27, 2021)

Hi Aussie. There were actually two Merryweathers in a barn at Snowshill Manor in Gloucestershire UK. They were both horse driven and they each had a manual pump operated by a fireman standing on each side. There was no info about them, but they are clearly very old- sometime in the eighteenth century.
Bob


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## Aussie (May 27, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> Hi Aussie. There were actually two Merryweathers in a barn at Snowshill Manor in Gloucestershire UK. They were both horse driven and they each had a manual pump operated by a fireman standing on each side. There was no info about them, but they are clearly very old- sometime in the eighteenth century.
> Bob


Thank you Bob.  When I can visit the  UK  (which isn’t likely to be soon as this is day one, of a seven day lockdown, in Victoria,)  each of these historic houses I visit, I find things like this.  The usual response is  “no idea, it’s always been there”. 

And because it’s not  “in the house”, there’s little to no interest in preserving, or restoring it.


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## Bob Wild (Jun 27, 2021)

At long last we have success. After so many attempts at getting the crankshaft made it runs. And to think that I was seriously thinking of abandoning the project and throwing it in the bin.

 <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


It is still a little tight and doesn’t turn as freely as I would like, but I can put up with it for now and it may improve with running. I have noticed however that the air coming from the exhaust seems to come out stronger from one cylinder than the other. I tried to set the timing so that the valves opened just before tdc. Perhaps one of you experts can advise which is better.
Bob


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## Richard Hed (Jun 27, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> At long last we have success. After so many attempts at getting the crankshaft made it runs. And to think that I was seriously thinking of abandoning the project and throwing it in the bin.
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
> 
> ...



If you plug the exhaust of the weak one, does it substantially slow it down?  Could you show a more general vid of this in operation?  I mean pull back some so we could view the whole engine and even move around it so we can see all sides?  what happens if you detach the steam from the weak side?  What happens when you detach the steam from the strong side?


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## Steamchick (Jun 28, 2021)

Possibly the valves should be set so each is centred, rather that an "end of stroke" setting?
I should guess that the "strong"exhaust is the wrong 'un. Possibly a problem of overlap? Where the valve permits inlet steam to directly pass into the exhaust as the valve moves? Can you easily remove the valve covers and double check valve port spacing? Particularly the land width between inlet and exhaust? And on the valves, check the centre space and width of the sealing land at each end of each valve? When you are sure everything matches the drawing, reset the valves at mid-stroke to be exactly correct.
Oh, a check before you disturb anything.... apply just a few psi of air to the inlet, not enough to drive the engine, and rotate the crank carefully, to determine the exhaust valve opening and closing times against the crank rotation (even make and fit a degree plate to do this, or stick a circle of card onto the flywheel, and after marking it use a protractor to measure the rotation angles for each event. You should also check that at the change point between the inlet and exhaust strokes it doesn't  just blow air straight through the valve. You do need to play with this so you can feel the pressure of the air acting on pistons, without it pushing past any point where friction stops it from turning. Easier on a tight engine than a free-runner?
You may need to do this just one cylinder at a time.
Enjoy,
K2
Post your results 
Enjoy,


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## Bob Wild (Jun 29, 2021)

Thanks Richard. I have found that at low pressure and giving it a nudge that it goes with a bigger thump at one dead centre than the other. This happens on both cylinders. So as you suggest I think the slide valve is not centred truly. I’ll try and fix this although it is a bit of a pig as I have to do a lot of dismantling to adjust the nut. Unfortunately this will not be for a while as Mrs W wants me to take her away in our caravan. Grrr

Bob


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## Steamchick (Jun 29, 2021)

Enjoy your holiday with Mrs. W. I'm sure she is truly centred in your life, so the valves will follow...
K2


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## Richard Hed (Jun 29, 2021)

Bob Wild said:


> Thanks Richard. I have found that at low pressure and giving it a nudge that it goes with a bigger thump at one dead centre than the other. This happens on both cylinders. So as you suggest I think the slide valve is not centred truly. I’ll try and fix this although it is a bit of a pig as I have to do a lot of dismantling to adjust the nut. Unfortunately this will not be for a while as Mrs W wants me to take her away in our caravan. Grrr
> 
> Bob


Well you know what?  I kikt my wife out of bed and put the lathe there in her place.  She lives in the dog house now.  Worst part of it is that I have to heat the dog house in the winter for her else she stays up all night howling and bothering the neighbors.  She hates her chain too.


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## Bob Wild (Jul 23, 2021)

At last. Can start to get moving on from that blooming engine. So started on the boiler. Some new techniques for me on this part, but very pleased with the result


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## Bob Wild (Jul 31, 2021)

I said that I was a novice ! Made a lovely hardwood former to shape the lower tapered part of the boiler. Sawed off the excess overlap after bending and silver soldered the join after a fashion. Drilled two sets of 36 rivet holes at a 6 degree angle by tilting the head. Being a novice I completely forgot that the burrs from the drilled holes would dig into the wood. No amount of (gentle) tapping or prising would persuade the ring to separate from the former !!!






So as a last resort I decided to (hack) machine away as much wood from the former as I could to expose one set of rivet holes






The former is actually made from two pieces of 25 mm beach screwed together. So I figured that if I drilled four clearance holes in one piece and bashed four screws it was worth giving it a try to separate the two pieces to improve my chance of getting the ring off the other piece of wood. 






And bingo, it worked. And finally the ring came off the former in one piece. Got to fettle it up and figure a way of riveting it to its mounting plate. That will be in a while since SWMBO wants to go off in our caravan for a while.

But it gives me an opportunity to think about how to fix those rivets. My inclination is to glue the lower ones in place since they are purely cosmetic and don’t hold anything. Especially as the annealed copper scratches even when you look at it.

When it comes to the upper mounting plate I thought about tapping the end of the rivet and bolting the ring to its mounting plate. The rivets are 3/32 dia which is only a nat’s whisker over 8ba. So a little skim on the end of the rivet would make this possible which would avoid any bashing to form a proper rivet. Any thoughts from you experts would be most appreciated.
 Bob


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## Bob Wild (Oct 28, 2021)

Still plodding on slowly thanks to the demands of Mrs W and her other hairbrain projects. But anyway, I have finished the boiler and mounted it in the chassis. Bit of a problem because I used the boiler tube which was 110 mm diameter rather than the 4 in as specified, being the nearest I could find. The upshot was that the rear cross brace and axle fouled. So I had to move them both which was a nuisance. Anyway I got it all to fit and am quite pleased with the results. Here are a few shots of the installation. Next up are the water tanks which will be interesting.









Sorry about the orientation, BlameSteve Jobs.
Bob


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## Bob Wild (Nov 17, 2021)

Thanks Roger.

So we are progressing with the water tanks. Quite fun metal bashing. Here is one after soldering and the other after a bit of filling with JB weld and then cleaning up:





Next up is the rear platform, and then some painting.

Bob


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## Bob Wild (Jan 22, 2022)

*A Nightmare Painting Job*

When I finally got to paint the water tank assembly I discovered to my horror that there was absolutely no colour match with the front parts. This was despite the fact that I used the same tin of paint.








I contacted the supplier who suggested it was something to do with the primer I had used. He very kindly sent me some isolating primer and some more paint (at a very nice discount). But this was not much better. He then suggested I brushed on more coats. This ended up with an awful finish, so I spent ages with paint stripper to get back to bare metal. In desperation I went to my local paint shop and a very helpful guy found me some spray paint that was almost the same colour as Fire Engine Red. So finally I got a good finish, and assembled all the fittings. I added a few more, such as the spotlights and filler mountings. These were not on the Julius drawings but I copied them from Cherry Hill's model, just to add a bit of detail and also because I like machining little bits of brass!










Next up the wheels, which look a challenge. Not to mention 60 tapered spokes!

Bob


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## Bob Wild (Feb 11, 2022)

Who said model engineering was interesting and challenging ? Got to make fifty six of theses little blighters to locate the wheel spokes !






And then there's the little matter of fifty six spokes.

Bob


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## Richard Hed (Feb 11, 2022)

Bob Wild said:


> Who said model engineering was interesting and challenging ? Got to make fifty six of theses little blighters to locate the wheel spokes !
> 
> View attachment 134011
> 
> ...


Looks interesting, but I can't tell how big these are, can you put a finger or an inch measure int there?  Also, what does the wheel look like, is there two or more?


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## stevehuckss396 (Feb 11, 2022)

Sorry about the painting nightmare. Maybe next time wait until all the painted parts are completed and then paint them all at the same time.

Beautiful job so far!


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## Bob Wild (Feb 12, 2022)

Hi Richard. For your info they are 5mm OD * 4mm Id * 7mm long. There are two rear wheels 132mm OD and two front wheels 101mm OD. If you look at my first post you can see the general layout.  When assembling the wheels the centre hub and the outer rim are both clamped onto a plate and machined in position to maintain concentricity. So I had to use the little sleeves so I could actually get the spokes into position. Here are some spokes:






I will show more detail shortly when they are finished.

Bob


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## Aussie (Feb 12, 2022)

What have you made the spokes of  ?  
Looks like brass.


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## Bob Wild (Feb 13, 2022)

Yes Aussie, its all made from brass and then glued together. They will then be painted Fire Engine Red. The challenge then will be to add striping round the rim. Never done anything like that before.
Bob


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## Bob Wild (Feb 28, 2022)

Good progress with the wheels. I thought I'd show some of my machining operations as I was using a faceplate for the first time. Any comments from the experts would be post appreciated. My idea was to build the whole assembly on a disc of aluminium which could be moved between the faceplate and the mill rotary table without moving any parts. This way I would (hopefully) maintain concentricity. 

The outer rim was made from four strips of brass pinned and glued together:






Mounted on the faceplate I machined the outer diameter:






Then the inner diameter:










Because of the size of the rim I couldn't figure out how to machine the tyre groove on the OD, so I transferred to the rotary table and slowly milled the groove:










I also drilled the holed for the axles with the same setup. Then on the bench I could assemble the axles and the hub:






I was disappointed to realise that when I machined the tyre groove most of the pins I had put in to hold it all together had been nearly machined away and the whole assembly looked a bit flimsy. So I decided to add a brass tyre at the bottom of the groove and screw that in place. That seemed to work well, but it did reduce the depth of the groove from 8mm to 6 mm. Fortunately I already had the neoprene square section for the tyres and with a bit if experimenting found I could mill 2mm off the thickness - disaster averted. So here is one of the finished wheels. Not sure how to bond the neoprene tyre to the rim though. Any suggestions?








Bob


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## stanstocker (Feb 28, 2022)

Perhaps silver solder, or even silver bearing lower temp solder, would allow a bit more strength in the joints?  In any event, it's a heck of a job you're doing and it's been a pleasure to see your posts!

Stay well and laughing in these weird days,
Stan


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## Bob Wild (Mar 1, 2022)

Thanks Stan. Bit late for soldering, since I've just about finished the four wheels. But I think they will now be strong enough for the limited running it will be subject to.

Will try to keep laughing in these weird days - reminds me of the old Madness song "You've got to laugh or else you'd cry"

Bob


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## Bob Wild (Mar 19, 2022)

Finally got the wheels finished, including some gold striping. Quite pleased with the results. The lines could have been wider, but that was the maximum my pen would open.






Added minor details to be more like the real thing. The rear wheels have an extra (strengthening?) ring. The chain wheel was solid when I got it, so I machined some spokes for authenticity. Also each hub has a funny fitting in the centre. Not sure what they are; grease boxes perhaps ?






And finally it is starting to look like a fire engine:


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## Skeehorse211 (Mar 20, 2022)

Very nice.


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## Bob Wild (Sep 6, 2022)

A major milestone today!

Cut the gears, which was a new experience for me. Not too many problems once I got the hang of the dividing head. Since I moved the valve eccentrics ages ago I couldn't use the engagement lever as Julius designed it. So I had to resort to what is probably an unorthodox but effect design of my own. The gear slides in a clevis which is moved in and out with a square shaft. A pin is used to lock the clevis in either the engaged or disengaged position. Here are the parts of the assembly (the chain wheels are proprietary items) :





And this is the complete assembly:





And here installed in the engine:





And finally I have drive to the wheels. Fitting the chains was a nightmare. To start with I made the chains such that they just fitted with a minimum of play. But the links kept jamming. So I tried making them a bit longer. But you can't get a bit longer because you have to increase by one whole link. The end result means that the chain flaps around terribly. So I'm going to try inserting some sort of tensioner. Anyway the engine does drive the wheels which to me is a major achievement. I was quite pleased that the control valve does indeed control the speed. Pity the wheels are a bit wobbly, so I'll have to have a look at that!





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Bob Wild (Oct 3, 2022)

A major milestone today. Got the drive chains mounted and finally managed to get the FK moving. The video is a bit short cos it careered off under my car. Then I realised that the front wheels were not actually bolted on.





Your browser is not able to display this video.







The end is in sight - just got the hoses and water stuff to do. Then a bit of cleaning and touch up the paint


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## ajoeiam (Oct 4, 2022)

Bob Wild said:


> snip
> 
> And finally I have drive to the wheels. Fitting the chains was a nightmare. To start with I made the chains such that they just fitted with a minimum of play. But the links kept jamming. So I tried making them a bit longer. But you can't get a bit longer because you have to increase by one whole link. The end result means that the chain flaps around terribly. So I'm going to try inserting some sort of tensioner. Anyway the engine does drive the wheels which to me is a major achievement. I was quite pleased that the control valve does indeed control the speed. Pity the wheels are a bit wobbly, so I'll have to have a look at that!
> 
> snip


Well - - - there is such a think like a 1/2 link.
Dunno what size chain it is that you're using but I've used such on 40 50 and 60 chain.


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## Bob Wild (Nov 29, 2022)

The last part of this build is the hose assembly. After a load of constructive suggestions from other members I finally settled on Shoe Laces ! It is actually Tubular Cotton Braid Undyed, and I'm quite pleased with it's appearance.







These are all the components to assemble it to the pump:






Here it is mounted round the front. The hose is connected to the pump and wraps around the sides and front. Astonishingly it does actually pump water with a jet about six feet into the air. Video to follow shortly. Added a few more details on the front, like what Cherry Hill did. Spot lights, a Bell and two nozzles






Now all that remains is to completely strip it down, clean up all the gunge and repaint as required. 






Bob


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## a41capt (Nov 29, 2022)

Beautiful!!!
John W


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## ShopShoe (Nov 30, 2022)

Beautiful.

I've been following and I have enjoyed the build articles. As regards recent work, I really like the hose connections: Great Thinking and Great Building.

Thank You for posting,

--ShopShoe


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## Bob Wild (Dec 31, 2022)

*Fire King is finished:*



















Done the final details . Added pin striping on the side panels. A bit shaky, but I'm not too displeased with my first attempt. Then I added the etchings. I relied on a tutorial from another member on this forum to copy from a photo print onto a piece of brass. I found this was a bit hit and miss. After several attempts to iron on the text I manged to get most of the letters on. Again, not perfect but passable. If it ever stops raining I will post some videos of it working.

Made a bit of a mistake with the driver. I didn't realise I had ordered a headless model and I have failed miserably in trying to get one of the female members of the family to make him some clothes. The brass helmet will be a bit of a challenge!

It has been quite a marathon project. It has taken me two years and at a conservative estimate I reckon about 1500 hours. Possibly nearer two thousand. I'm not sure I would have started it if I had known how long it was going to take!

Anyway, it has been good fun, and I will certainly enjoy Hogmanay tonight, then I can start on my next project - "Stephenson's Rocket"

Thanks to all those who have helped and a Happy New Year to all.

Bob


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## GreenTwin (Dec 31, 2022)

Fantastic work, and great build thread !!!

.


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## a41capt (Dec 31, 2022)

Amazing Bob!  From the chain drive to the side mounted suction, spoked wheels to the fire box, a spectacular representation on 19th century firefighting apparatus. Thanks so much for taking us along on your extensive build and congratulations on a most excellent model.

I, for one, look forward to seeing the run and pump video.  As mentioned in a previous post, while I retired as a Fire Chief, I spent my time as a Fire Engineer/Driver at the pump panel of many apparatus, especially early on in my career, and ANY fire engine doing its intended purpose, no matter how small, stirs the blood!

Thanks again,
John W


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## Steamchick (Jan 3, 2023)

Congratulations Bob on completing such a well presented model.
A great thread to follow.
K2


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