# Need help..Engine ID   4 cly   Fltat-head



## Capt,n John (Aug 20, 2013)

I am looking for all the information I can get on a 4 cyl Flat-head engine. It is in nice condition, but with no coil.  I would like too complete the ignition and maybe use a small motorcycle coil. Need to know the easy/best way to do it.   It says E Wall, Chicago Ill  on the side of the engine.  Thanks in advance.  Capt,n.


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## mu38&Bg# (Aug 20, 2013)

As the nameplate says it's a Wall. http://modelenginenews.org/gallery/p18.html


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## Capt,n John (Aug 21, 2013)

I have figured out the firing order of my 4 cyl Wall engine. I need to get a coil for it and may need a wire diagram for the coil and where to make it a good working ignition.  Any help would be good.  Thanks,  John stickpoke


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## Capt,n John (Aug 21, 2013)

Forgot to say...I have better photos now to upload here.  Thanks


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## stevehuckss396 (Aug 21, 2013)

This is a simple way to wire up an ignition system


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## Capt,n John (Aug 22, 2013)

What options are there for coil size & type?  What voltage option is there for battery?   What size of condenser is needed with each type or size of coil?

Is there a way too add a transistor for better operation?   Any & all data will be welcome.  Thanks, Capt,n


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## H. K. Barrows (Aug 25, 2013)

Hello Capt,n John You have good looking Wall 4 flat head 50 cc 1.00 bore 1.00 stroke egine. You have good wiring diagram, all I use for a condenser is what I get at an auto store. I use 6 volt ignition for all my model boats, been doing the same for over 55 yr's , to lazy to change. Somthing you might look at is model 5 ft 32 lbs boat with Wall 4 that I built in 1957 and the boat and I launched in 1958. been running this model pertty regularly though the yr's, gave it a ring job in 2009 and messed around with stuff, I should have left alone dumb. Back to somthing to look at go to RC Groups.com , then go to boats there is thead named video under the heading redcrafmodels there is video of the model runnig. you will see it starts very easy. Oh by the way the coil is a Lucas I went to that size and make because if I bought 12 at a time thay were only 12.75 ea 55 + yr's ago, I have a no. of them thay all work still, I do not think Lucas made them just labeled them, just a thougt. Regards Red  [email protected]


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## Capt,n John (Aug 26, 2013)

Red, thank you very much for the help. I could not find the video you talked about.  A direct link would help...email it to the private email system.  I sure would like a Lucas coil if they are not too big.  What are the coils used for in normal engines?  Thanks  Capt,n  John   Hesperia  Michigan.


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## H. K. Barrows (Aug 26, 2013)

Hello Capt,n John Good to hear from you I'm not to good with this crystal set. I have watched E BAY for some time not seen any LUCAS coils. I hope this info will work to get you RC GROUPS http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=132   Regards Red


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## H. K. Barrows (Aug 26, 2013)

Hello Capt,n John This is along way around, dial though all the air craft untilt you get to boats then go to Dock Talk  then go to page 2 it will say video by redcraftmodels about the 3d line it will say go to page 9 ahhhh, hope this will work  Regards Red


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## Capt,n John (Sep 1, 2013)

I am not good with the crystal set either....never found the video.  Thanks for helping me though.  Best Regards,  Capt,n:wall:


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## Capt,n John (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks guys for all the help. I have the engine running now. I used a Model-electric coil and use 3 large NiCad batteries to power it. It took a little learning cure to fine tune it, but she sure runs great now. I do not use the rope start at all a good flip with the flywheel...and she is purring!  I really like the sound of this engine. It has no oil leaks except by the inspection covers that use no gaskets. I will post more photos and a link to it running as soon as I can.  Today off to a engine show in South Haven Mich.Thm:


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## Capt,n John (Sep 7, 2013)

Here is some photos of my Wall engine.


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## Capt,n John (Sep 7, 2013)

Another photo...advance linkage.


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## Capt,n John (Sep 7, 2013)

As above in the last photo, I have the throttle linkage in place I made. The wall engine really runs much better when you throttle up.  The advance is right in sync with the throttle.  May be the first 4 cyl Wall engine with this feature!!!   It is a delight too run.   Best Regards,  Capt,n


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## Capt,n John (Sep 8, 2013)

H. K. Barrows said:


> Hello Capt,n John This is along way around, dial though all the air craft untilt you get to boats then go to Dock Talk  then go to page 2 it will say video by redcraftmodels about the 3d line it will say go to page 9 ahhhh, hope this will work  Regards Red


 
Where do I look from here?  http://www.rcgroups.com/dock-talk-56/page2.html

Thanks,  Capt,n


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## H. K. Barrows (Sep 8, 2013)

Hello Capt,n John Good to hear you have you'r Wall runnig. Let see if I can get you to the video I told you about, when you click on the RC groups go to page 4 in the upper right coner then scroal down to the bottom of the page you will see video by redcraftmodels and to the right you will see the mans name that made the video KMOT click on this line this will get you to the page that has the info to get you to the page that has line 9,  then scroal down and click on line 9. I'm so dumb at this, any body can make this easer to get Cap,n John to this video JUMP IN. Regards Red


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## Capt,n John (Sep 8, 2013)

Go to the web page where this data is. Right click on the webpage bar at top & copy that web page address. Then in a new post too me...paste that address you copied.  That will provide me a link to that page.  Give it a go.   Thanks

Capt,n


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## Capt,n John (Sep 8, 2013)

Below is some data...reasons why to use a transistor ignition.  It is a copy & paste article.   

*HOW TO BUILD TRANSISTOR IGNITION MODULES*
            "Most carburetor problems are            electrical" That was told to me by a savvy old auto mechanic            long ago and it has proven true more times than I can remember.

            The standard Kettering points/condenser ignition timing setup works            just fine if the point faces are parallel and clean, are closed with            proper pressure, and the condenser (capacitor is the current term)            is good and of the correct value. A lot of ifs, don't you think?            Also, unfortunately for us model engine builders, either a grossly            oversize points/condenser set from older style lawn mower engines            must be used or a miniature points set will have to be fabricated            from questionable materials and with questionable accuracy. Most            model engines don't have shaft oil seals and just a little oil            leakage onto the points will cause major problems. Ever wonder why            so many model gas engines on display at shows are never ran? Do you            suppose it's because they are easy starters and good runners? Some            may be. But how many really otherwise great engines won't run or are            so hard to start because of ignition problems, that the owner won't            even bother? What a shame! If you don't like having your engines            ending up as just shelf models, then keep reading!

            I came across the answer some years ago in a magazine article            written by Floyd Carter and all my spark plug ignition model gas            engines use it with great results. The original Transistor Ignition            Module (TIM - 4) is a simple two transistor circuit that can easily            be home built. TIM-4 was designed to operate on 3.6 volts (three            Ni-Cad cells in series) for use with model airplane engines. It            eliminates all the problems of standard points systems. The coil            will give a good hot spark every time. The circuit requires very            little current to trigger (25 ma). This allows use of a tiny micro            switch for the points which can be easily hidden. There is no            arcing, so the contacts in the micro switch will never burn. If you            want your model antique engine to be authentic, or on already built            engines which you don't want to change, the old point set can be            used if desired. A "condenser" is not needed but can be            included for looks.

            And now for the really BIG advantage........ Since we now have a            circuit that is so easy to trigger, we can use a tiny magnetic            sensor instead of mechanical point contacts (high amperage switch)!            The magnetic sensor is called a "Hall Effect Device". They            are really tiny, measuring just .125" x .170" x .060"            thick (3mm x 4.3mm x 1.52mm). Instead of a cam to operate contacts,            a tiny magnet (only 1/8" diameter by 1/16" thick - or            smaller) mounted on a drum or disk (cam gear) triggers the Hall            device which is mounted in close proximity. The Hall sensor is            located remote from the circuit board which can be hidden under the            engine, or wherever you wish. Now you have the ultimate in small and            reliable ignition, no mechanical parts, rub blocks or contact points            at all! The circuits are extremely reliable.


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## H. K. Barrows (Sep 9, 2013)

Capt. John...Here's the linhttp://vimeo.com/6693959k to the video, I think


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## H. K. Barrows (Sep 9, 2013)

[ame]http://vimeo.com/6693959k[/ame]


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## Hat56 (Sep 9, 2013)

Try    www.jerry-howell.com they can supply coils/ leads/ transistor ignition systems either assembled or kit form. They are very helpfull with reliable shipping . I had their TIM-6 sent out here to Australia and will set it up on a Dale Detrich  brass " T ".


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## Capt,n John (Sep 9, 2013)

Red, The link may be close.  Try to copy just starting with the H   and make sure any letters at the end of what you copy in not included. It is touch some times for sure.  Thanks  John


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## Capt,n John (Sep 9, 2013)

[ame]http://vimeo.com/6693959k[/ame]


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## Capt,n John (Sep 10, 2013)

That sure is a nice engine & boat you have there. I watched it 2-3 times.  

I have a video made but I cannot seen to load it into my computers for up-loading to YouTube.  Done it before...but for some reason now...no success. I will keep trying though.  Best Regards,  Capt,n


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## Capt,n John (Sep 13, 2013)

Red, I need to adjust the tappet clearance on my engine. Is the wrench size 3/16 & 5/32 ?   Also what should the clearance be set at? I got 2 tappets on the verge of too tight.  This neat little engine sure does run good. It has one of the best carbs on a small engine I have ever seen.  Best Regards,  Johnwoohoo1


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## H. K. Barrows (Sep 13, 2013)

Hello Capt,n John If the builder fallowed the prints the hex screw is a 3-48 the flats are .156 I don't know about the tappet if it has flats, what I have done is take a pair of neddle nose and grind a half diamiter in each of the tappered nose that is just a bit smaller than .187 diamiter then clamp the tappet adjust the screw to about .004 to .005 clearance and lock the  lock nut. I've run out time Best regards, Red


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## Capt,n John (Sep 14, 2013)

I will try to take a close up photo of the valve gear.  Also a photo of the neat distributor.  They vary on different 50cc Wall engines.   Capt,n


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## Capt,n John (Sep 17, 2013)

Wall valve gear & distributor photos.


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## Capt,n John (Sep 17, 2013)

Distributor


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## Capt,n John (Sep 22, 2013)

Red, it sure was fun talking engines with you on the phone.  I learned a lot from you. The world needs more guys like you eager to share neat ideas & we covered a lot of very interesting facts.  Got to do that again some time.

Best Regards,  Capt,n   John


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## Capt,n John (Oct 4, 2013)

Red, I got your data & photos you sent.  Wow the airplanes photos you sent, tell me you do top notch workmanship.  Neat to see what the insides of a Wall 4 cyl engine looks like also! I plan to do a video of my Wall engine running & upload the vid to YouTube.  I will provide a link to click on too view it.  Best Regards, John    West   Michigan


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## Capt,n John (Oct 20, 2013)

I have been busy.  May get it done & posted Tomorrow.  Hang in there!


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## Capt,n John (Nov 1, 2013)

Still want to make that video...seems to rain just about every day. Clouds & rain does not help videos.  Its been cold too...............


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## Capt,n John (Feb 9, 2014)

H. K. Barrows said:


> Hello Capt,n John If the builder fallowed the prints the hex screw is a 3-48 the flats are .156 I don't know about the tappet if it has flats, what I have done is take a pair of neddle nose and grind a half diamiter in each of the tappered nose that is just a bit smaller than .187 diamiter then clamp the tappet adjust the screw to about .004 to .005 clearance and lock the lock nut. I've run out time Best regards, Red


 
Red, I lost your phone number, so I could not call you. Then my computer messed up & I lost my sign in data.  I finally got that again so I can log in. I made 2 videos of my Elmer Wall engine running, but cannot seem to load them to send to You Tube.

Can you please PM me with your phone number?  Thanks   John  from Michigan :wall:


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## Capt,n John (Feb 14, 2014)

I have a question for anyone that knows about video installation from a digital camera to a laptop computer. It has worked before for me but now no can do???   Maybe I need to get QUICKTIME INSTALLED in my computer or do I need to reformat the video media & redo the vid????   Thanks In advance.  Best  Regards   John


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## gbritnell (Feb 15, 2014)

Hi John,
You can't play the files or you just can't see them? I would think if you hook the USB cable to the computer the files should be visible even if you don't have a program that will play them. 
My photo camera makes .avi files and when they show up I just right click on them and when I get the pop-up window it gives me the option to 'open with'. What is the operating system in you laptop?
Do an online search and look for 'playing .xxx files on whatever operating system you have'. 
gbritnell


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## Capt,n John (Feb 15, 2014)

Hi George, 
I have a windows 8 laptop & a windows 7 desktop. Seems like both are not picking up the video from the data chip. I used a card reader...no go. I plugged the media in the slot on the computer...no go. I have not tried the USB camera cord yet, got to find it first. One person said I may need to reformat the media card & redue the movie/video. Then I read something about that I may need to install Quicktime or Windows movie maker. Seems like this stuff is getting hard to do. I am getting old for sure. 
  Best regards, to you Friend.


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## gbritnell (Feb 15, 2014)

Hi John,
Sorry to hear that. I figure my family can dispose of my shop and engines when I'm gone. I just have to get my machining 'fix' every day. I do have plenty of other hobbies but probably enjoy this one the most. 
gbritnell


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## Capt,n John (Feb 15, 2014)

Just about got that video to upload!!!


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## Capt,n John (Mar 2, 2014)

Well I got the video to load into my computer now, with help from a genius ! I have 3 videos but only one showed up where I could upload it to YouTube. What I have now I have here below is a link to click on to view the video. This was not the best video but its ok. Enjoy !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez2CxPSLimM&feature=youtu.be



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIJkK9xCtZY&feature=youtu.be


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