# Super Tigre G32 1cc diesel - a 5cc version



## Ramon (Apr 27, 2012)

After finishing the Eta engines it was intended to follow those with this project but somehow that intention got waylaid by the Waller engine and other extraneous factors that occurred late last year and into this one : At last though, after what seems like an eternity due to one distraction or another, it looks like I'm finally in a position to begin working on another 5cc version of a 'diesel' model aircraft engine ;D 

The one chosen for scaling up this time is a small 1cc engine produced by Super Tigre in the fifties. ST also produced 1.5 and 2.5 cc versions on similar lines - ie rear intake drum valve induction with bolt on ball raced front housings - single for the 1 and 1.5cc and, I believe, twin for the 2.5cc. Here are a couple of images of the original. These were supplied by Ernesto Pizzi of Messina in Italy who kindly agreed to take several views of his engine for me. Ernesto also assisted with measuring and providing dimensions of his original as well as comparing the new drawings to the original dimensions












As can be seen the original crankcase is a die casting and is going to present some challenges to machine it from solid particularly around the intake area ( No CNC I'm afraid, just basic kit available). However with carefull set ups and a bit of fettling with a rotary burr in strategic places I feel a reasonable representation can be achieved without too many compromises which will, hopefully, convey the lines of this very characterful little engine.

Why 5cc? well for me it's a good size to handle, not too small to be fiddly especially on the smaller parts and not so big as to require sourcing larger lumps of material. They swing a decent sized prop and make a lovely sound too. I know there can be some problems with sourcing fuel for some but for me no glo motor gives off an aroma like a diesel does ;D
Materials are reasonably basic - He 30 ali for the case, front housing and head and, as with previous engines, En1a leaded steel will be used for the liner with a cast iron piston and the crankshaft made from En24T.

Making these engines is not a long term commitment. They have a low part count but the machining does have to be accurate with good - and in the case of the piston liner fit, exceptional tolerances but it is all achievable with easilly made kit and when it bursts into life at the end, well ;D ;D ;D ;D 

There doesn't appear to be too many threads on here for such a project so I don't know if this will appeal to members but if there are any interested in making such engines as before I'm quite happy to share this build on here with you.

On that note then I have done a set of drawings for all parts but have just realised I do not know how to get them on here as PDF attachments. I have them converted to PDF so if someone could point me in the right direction (please keep it as simple and straightforward as possible) it would be appreciated and I'll get them posted so you can see what's what.

Regards for now - Ramon


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## rhitee93 (Apr 27, 2012)

I'll be tagging along with interest!


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## Paulsv (Apr 27, 2012)

I am looking forward to following this build!

I think you can upload the .pdf drawings in the "Downloads and Uploads" section of the site. There is a link in the Menu at the upper left corner of this page.


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## gadabout (Apr 27, 2012)

I'M sitting down and ready! Can't wait!

Mark


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## ProdEng (Apr 27, 2012)

I will be very interested to see how you machine the crankcase and look forward to following along.

Jan


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## steamer (Apr 27, 2012)

Piston fit is really tight on these....I'll be watching and taking some notes!.....especially with you doing it Ramon....lots to learn! :bow:

Dave


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## SBWHART (Apr 28, 2012)

I've got my chair pulled up

Stew


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## Jasonb (Apr 28, 2012)

Looking forward to watching you sculpt another beuty out of a block of ali.

Re the drawings one easy way to attach them as you go along in to get the pdf up on your screen and then use the snipping tool (in windows accesories) just drag a square or rectangle around the part of the drawing and it will save it as a jpg which you can put into your photo hosting site.

This would keep each drawing with the description and then maybe put the lot in teh download section for those that want to print it off to work from.

J


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## bp (Apr 28, 2012)

I'm another one looking forward to this Ramon. Thoroughly enjoyed and admired both your ED Racer and especially the ETA!!
Chair pulled up and at the ready!!
cheers
Bill Pudney


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## Ramon (Apr 28, 2012)

Hi guy's, thanks for the response, glad to hear from you. It would be nice to hear from anyone actually making anything similar too.

I have now uploaded the General Arrangement in the downloads section - thanks 'Paulsv' - and will follow up with the detail parts later. 

I like the idea you suggest Jason and will look into that this evening.

Now I'm off to the workshop to make a lot of ali swarf - no not on these today (but will do definitely tomorrow) but on another I/C project which by it's nature will be a long term one - perhaps a bit more on that later as well 

back soon then

Regards - Ramon

Heres the link to the download - any idea how to do it so it's shown as an attachment as on some posts?
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item388


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## Ramon (Apr 28, 2012)

Hi again, Sod's Law time :-[

You know, I looked at these drawings a thousand times for anything untoward. Typically after accessing the download to check the link I spot something. It's an anomally rather that an error - the dimension shown as 37.59 is correct but some how the arrow has become shortened. This dimension should be from the centre line of the crankshaft to the top of the port - same manner as dimensioned for the exhaust.

Sorry for any confusion - is there any way the Download can be removed and replaced with a correct one?

Regards - Ramon


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## Ken I (Apr 28, 2012)

Signing on for the ride - already downloaded.

There is no way to edit the downloads section (administrators only) send Bob "Maryak" a PM with the corrected attatchments or ask him to simply delete it and reload later.

I've had the same thing happen - finding an error after posting it in downloads is embarrasing to say the least.

Regards,
      Ken


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## Paulsv (Apr 28, 2012)

Beautiful drawing! What CAD program are you using?


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## vcutajar (Apr 28, 2012)

I will be joining the crowd and looking over your shoulder during your build. Downloaded the file so I can follow better.

Vince


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## compspecial (Apr 28, 2012)

This is very exciting Ramon, these engines were legendary in their day, sort of Rolls-Royce status but they never could keep up with demand! I'm sure your enlarged version will be just as good quality-wise bravo.
                    Stew


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## Lesmo (Apr 28, 2012)

Ramon

This one looks too good to miss, I remember these engines well, we used to use them in our model aircraft when I was a lad in the RAF in Germany, happy days, and I know what you mean about the aroma, very evocative. 

Les


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## Ramon (Apr 28, 2012)

Hi Guy's it's good to hear you are as keen as I am. It appears however a bit _too_ keen at this end - whoops :-[ :-[

I have just recieved a PM drawing my attention to the discrepancy of the updated dimension I gave earlier to the drawing as uploaded. ie 37.59 to 37.5.

When I noticed it this morning I opened up my GA on file and re-dimensioned it - a very definite 37.59. 
having just checked my original GA layout drawing it _is_ a very definite 37.5. This is the dimension used to calculate the timing using the timing calculator on the MEN site. Somehow, in converting the Layout drawing to a single layer GA the anomally of a reduced arrow length and the error has crept in.

I have emailed Bob 'Maryak' asking for the download to be removed if at all possible and will start over this time making certain it's correct - I'll also include the details for the timing calc this time too. 

I've spent quite alot of time on these drawings and checked them prodigeously for mistakes - not a good start I have to admit :-[ but hopefully not an indicator of the road ahead.

Paulsv - The program is Autocad 2002. I'm very new to it, the Racer and Etas were done from pencil drawings but as I was drawing out the ETA I had a visit from two people who convinced me I should try CAD. I had struggled with it in the past so was very reluctant to try again but with their help I got to grips with those early learning problems and now can't imagine being without it. 2D is enough however, I don't think my old grey cells could cope with anything more advanced though I would like to learn how to do exploded views at some stage.

The blocks for two cases were cut off today and machining will begin on them tomorrow.

Apologies for the goof 

Regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi again, just to say I've spent quite some time checking, double checking etc this morning and have just uploaded a revised GA and the drawing for the crankcase. I'd _like_ to say that I'm now fairly confident that it is all okay but you know what that will mean : however I have given it a thorough going over.

Please bear in mind though that this is, as yet, an untried design so if you do spot any errors or ommissions it will be appreciated if you can point them out. In the meantime though, I'm off to tackle those crankcase blocks 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (Apr 29, 2012)

Well I finally made it into the workshop after lunch and set to to make some swarf ;D. 

Decided to do two cases just as with the Racers and Etas in case of any mishaps. That way if anything does go pear shape you don't have to go all the way back to square one unless of course it's pear shaped for the second time round 

Began with a couple of blocks from 65mm square bar. I weighed them just for interest - 555 and 560gms it will be interesting to see just how much of that will become swarf





These were roughed down to block size plus .5mm on all faces using a small (approx 30mm dia) flycutter





The centres for the cavity and the liner were accurately spotted relative to each other -





 - before setting them in the four jaw to bore the cavities and drilling and reaming for the rear bush.




The front face was skimmed to ensure squareness to the bore then an area which will cover that of the front housing taken to finished size (ie .5mm deep) the depth of the cavity being from this reccessed face.

Proceedings were held up somewhat due to swarf from last weeks chip producing efforts finding its way into the cross slide drive gearing and locking the leadscrew which meant a strip down - twice : - of the cross slide to clear it. Whatever, the day finished with the first stages successfully completed though I fear the coming stages will not be quite so straightforward as the previous engines scratch.gif





A small start then but that first step

Regards for now - Ramon

Ps - Jason, I've looked into snipping but it's not on my system (Win XP) I tried a free downoad - 'Screen Capture' but could not make it work - any further suggestions ?


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## Jasonb (Apr 30, 2012)

I'll look tonight.

J


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## ShedBoy (Apr 30, 2012)

Will be following this one along. A glow engine will be on the cards for me one day and most plans can be changed to suit I am led to believe, but I could be wrong. Would a glow conversion be on the plans Ramon?

Brock


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## Ramon (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi Brock - just escaped from garden duties ;D

There shouldn't be any reason why this engine could not have a glow conversion - as long as the compression ratio is around 10/12 to 1 it should work okay. That would probably entail lowering the liner slightly and altering the head to suit so that the plug is not buried too deep. I would think it would be very noisy with an open exhaust however but must admit it's a lot easier to obtain glow fuel than diesel so that fact alone may make the proposition more attractive. I have no plans to do so as such though nearer the time I could draw a head to see how it looks. 

For me this is very much an attempt to replicate the original at 5cc as best I can but others may see it as a basis for taking further. Doing away with the fixed back end for a start would certainly simplify matters  

Ho hum back to the soil!

Regards - Ramon


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## ShedBoy (Apr 30, 2012)

The fuel issue is why I asked. The last time I messed with a diesel was 20yrs ago and getting ether was an issue back then. As for the sound I reckon it would be like music to the earplugs, neighbours would disagree though.

Brock


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## Ramon (May 1, 2012)

Hi Guy's - Well, you win some and you lose some : - Before we get to a glow head Brock, first I need a crankcase !!

Having burnt myself out in the garden yesterday - one day of sunshine in days of seemingly endless rain - I thought it far more sensible to get into the workshop and on to the next stage - after all you shouldn't overdo these things now should you . 

After making up a spigot for locating the bore on later milling ops the blocks were set up and 4mm pilot holes drilled and reamed at the intake location. These will be used for setting purposes later before being opened up to final size. The position of the intake hole relative to the valve sleeve bore and the inner face of the cavity was marked out as a double check on position but the actual positioning was all done from coordinates






Itching to get on,the first block was set up on the lathe for boring out the top face through to the cavity for the liner





Although I was aware I had dimensioned the depth of the transfer ports and drawn the bore straight through it soon became clear I hadn't thought this through fully - (oops!) Not giving this too much thought then I'm afraid I blindly ignored the interupted cutting feedback - it was difficult to see till the bore had increased - thinking it was the breaking through into the sides of the cavity oh: oh:. The penny dropped too late of course before it was realised that I was eating into the back face of the cavity. Well after the usual 'Deary me, look whats happened' kind of phrase  (yeh you wanna believe it ) I could see the error of my ways and decided to break it down to see what it looked like before going any further. Taking a good look at what had transpired it looks as if it can be saved by setting it up and boring out for an insert. This is now very definitely 'Case # 1' to be used for all set ups. Set the second case up and bored to a very definite 21.0mm deep which was a big improvement.

So an inauspicious day ended with these ...





Not much to show so far but hopefully tomorrow will see #1 case recovered and a start on shaping the outsides - unless of course the 'Sun do shine' - but then it usually does in the shed 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (May 3, 2012)

Hi again, just an update on the current state of play. Managed to reclaim the mis-bored case successfully yesterday but laying a path to the new extension took precedence for the rest of the day given a dry spell in this very wet period.

Had a good days milling today however but still not got to the crux of the matter in dealing with that rear end but that's not far away now. The camera I have been using for all of these shots - the little Nikon Coolpix 2000 - appears to be begining to fade , some of the images taken yesterday turning out quite dark and it's very slow between shots. Shame really it's been a great little camera for this purpose. Fortunately theres a far less used Fuji languishing in the drawer that can now be pressed into service.

Despite that here's a few pics of the latest progress............

Reclaiming the case began with making an insert like a thick washer about .5mm thicker than required. The hole (in the insert) was bored to 9.95 and the outer rim cut at a half degree angle so that as it would be pressed into it's recess (and Loctited) hopefully the join would be near invisible. Once this was done yet another expanding mandrel was turned up - I just love making these things, they work so well





This held the case with less than .01TIR and the recess was then bored until the back face just cleaned up and the insert would just enter. As with pinning the recess edge was not deburred. Held on a previously turned spigot the insert was pressed in using the tailstock.





Once the Loctite had cured this was faced back to the original depth then the case set up as before for boring out for the liner. Finally by using the chucking reamer by hand from the outer end that .05 left in the bore of the insert was reamed inline with the original bore. The reclaimed #1 is on the left





Back to square one rough milling the outer faces could begin and this was done in the vise with packing to protect that finish turned top face. First the rear end was reduced each side to a 'reasonable' finish as this was to be used for subsequent setting up then the sides above and below the lugs were taken out to within 1mm of finished size















Now the finishing could begin so first off was to mount that spigot previously machined on an angle plate and square it up on the mill. The mill spindle was centred accurately about the centre line of the spigot





The case was set square to the table via that reduced width then the lower (actual - the top in the shot) face was then milled as a datum and the lower faces of the lugs and crankcase width finished off to size





The case was rotated for the sides above the lugs and the lugs themselves to be finished this time using an end mill which had had the corners radiused. The top edges of the main body sides were then milled before setting up again to radius the edges with a corner rounding cutter ......










.....and this is how they look tonight..










Things will slow down a little now as the set ups get a little more complex - that constant nag of 'is something being machined away that needs to be kept' is getting a stronger by the op.


Jason - I finally managed to load a snipping tool and make it work ;D

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Jasonb (May 4, 2012)

Nicely recovered, that camera can't be too bad as I can still see the joint in a couple of the photos 

J


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## Ramon (May 4, 2012)

Err... I don't think so Jason - I think what you may be seeing is a turning mark - the join line bisects the corners of the top bore step, I notice though theres a tiny ridge in the corner of that step probably caused by a bit of swarf getting in between the dead stop when boring to depth - theres a fair bit of it around you now :big:

Re the camera - last pics taken with it were the first three of the last post. I had a series of very dark background images as in the second image but what has really changed is the time it takes to open from switching on - a long delay before anything happens - and also the time between taking a pic and ready for the next, big delay there too, and yes the battery is charged 


Question for you - As said have got the Snippy tool uploaded and have got a section of an image 'clipped' and saved into Word. - How do you get just the image posted here and not the whole blank surround? ???

Ramon


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## Ramon (May 4, 2012)

Aha - belay that last request Jim lad 
I'm not quite sure how I arrived at it but treat this as a test.

Those who might have an interest may have noticed these Magenta coloured additions to the drawing.





They are not modifications but are for setting up for machining. Now it's time for those next ops - back later

Ramon


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## Jasonb (May 4, 2012)

Not quite sure how you got there but when I snip something when the window pops back up after snipping I just go file, save as and it will save it as a .jpg which you just treat like any other image.

J


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## steamer (May 4, 2012)

Looking Great Ramon....keep it coming!  :bow:\\

Dave


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## Ramon (May 9, 2012)

Hi Guy's - I had hoped to be a little further on by now but having hit a couple of snags as things developed which, though so far overcome, and, coupled with the usual external factors that do their best to prevent access to the 'Ole Comfort Zone' at times when that's were you'd rather be has tempered progress a tad :


However heres few more pics of the progress and other bits and pieces to bring it up todate to tonight..........

That expanding mandrel was set up using the four jaw - I don't usually do that prefering to make a new one to ensure accuracy (not so much concentrically but axially) but this worked out fine. The diameter at the end of the valve housing was defined plus .5mm to give a good indicator of whats to come off - or more importantly what to leave on - and to try to establish that rear angle of the intake tube. The overhang on the mandrel was a bit too much for that and there was quite a bit of chatter - this will have to be sorted a bit later





Using the vise on the mill the bolt holes for the front housing and cylinder were drilled using coordinates then some of the waste around that rear end was milled away leaving about a mil on





I felt the next area that needed to be tackled was rounding the top so first a cutter required making. A blank long enough for two was milled, parted off and heat treated without tempering. I have put quench in oil on the drawing which is what I usually do and did the first as such but it didn't seem to have that glass hardness so the second one was done in water. 





The cutter was backed off by hand using a needle file and after treatment bolted to its mandrel with a 4BA bolt and the cutting edges stoned. The block in the background was used to do a test cut





Looking at what was available for the next ops it was clear that some extraneous work on the workholding front was going to have to be done....

An ali block was shaped up to hold the case at the 60degree angle for doing the venturi and a plate faced up and slotted so this can be centred either on the faceplate or rotary table





Then this adjustable fixture - made many years ago for holding crankcases for boring out the main bearing sleeve - was modified to use on the R/T. 










Then it was time to get going again....

After centering the R/T to the spindle the fixture, with the #1 case securely clamped in, was set up and the bore carefully centred before tightening it down to the R/T.





Using a 4mm FC3 chamfered on the corners milling began by removing the waste around the top paying care not to go too deep over the rear intake tube. It was here that it was noticed that the detail on the drawing for the cutter diameters is in error due to the fact that the outer top profile wasn't drawn over the view - we need a smiley for 'sod it' - the reduced part of the shank is not enough to allow the 12mm cutter to get in. The shank was set up and the reduced portion taken down to 3.6mm but it disintegrated as soon as the bolt was tightened. Hmmm 
After a good look it was 'Compromise' time : - Top was reduced to 35dia and that recessed diameter increased to 28.
a new cutter shank was turned this time using a 2.5mm caphead - only one I could find but ones enough  and it ended the day like this 





Before beginning this thread it was assumed that the only way drawings could be put up was to upload them. Obviously this is not a good idea if they are not proven! So, the drawings will be updated as work progresses and having now got the gist of snipping will wait until the case is finished before putting the final version up here rather than upload them - unless that is any one would like to access them as a PDF. We all make mistakes, but I confess I don't _like_ making them but then again this is a 'first off' 

Hope this is still of interest to you

regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (May 9, 2012)

Hi again, I have just noticed that most of the images are blank on the second page. I don't know why this should be - the images in questionare all still in my web album but last night I noticed that that had several images duplicated and placed in to the album at random - I deleted them so that may be the problem - what ever I will try to fix the probem but "not tonight Josephine" I need my beauty sleep


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## Ramon (May 10, 2012)

Pics duly fixed but what a pain - hope I don't have to do that again. Don't know what caused it but definitely an aberation with Picasa :

Had another good days milling but it is slow going - as each op is passed however the 'anxiety' level increases - had a mishap today on case #1 that caused a good flutter  Well pleased with how the home made cutter had worked on the reccesses it occurred that it would be an opportune set up to do the transfer pockets. Set the stops on the RT then carefully selecting 'mind in neutral' mode moved over to take a trial cut - 90 degress out of phase - Aaaagh oh: oh: 
'Fortunately' it's shallow radially and not too deep but is fundementally unrecoverable other than to open up the bore for the liner which is not a 'preferred option' so it will have to stay. It won't have any effect on performance and won't show once assembled so it isn't as bad as first thought and it is after all the test or set up piece - things could still go pear shape as yet (and no doubt will :) but it would be nice if there were two useable cases at the end.

A few more pics of progress - it's still looking bloody ugly but a case is gradually beginning to appear.....

Cutting the front rebate. Despite the straight tooth form the finish was reasonable and following a tentative trial with a needle file should clean up without too much work





Those side reccesses were tackled next - just on depth the shank of the cutter just rubbed the top rim but there's a .1mm allowance left for turning so that should dissappear





Another, smaller diameter cutter will be required to finish the rebate at the rear but first the material around the intake tube needed removing





And this is how they finished tonight -





- as said still not a pretty sight but getting there slowly 

I hope this will be of use to someone - it would be nice to hear if it is or from anyone else into small I/Cs 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## bearcar1 (May 10, 2012)

I certainly am enjoying the ride so far Ramon. I find it interesting to be a witness in how such complex shapes get held and the cutters developed in order to obtain the desired results. Thm:

BC1
Jim


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## steamer (May 10, 2012)

Nice fixturing Ramon!  Very nicely thought out!

Dave


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## ProdEng (May 10, 2012)

Very interesting piece of machining, much more complex than most things you would find in a production environment. Without seeing this kind of sculpting take place, it is difficult for me to visualise that it is possible, so my horizons are expanding as is the body of things I can't do ! Ramon, I have spent quite a while going backwards and forwards through your process and appreciate the time you have taken to record it.

Jan


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## mu38&Bg# (May 11, 2012)

Ramon, the build looks fantastic. I love the idea of scaling old engine designs.



			
				ProdEng  said:
			
		

> Very interesting piece of machining, much more complex than most things you would find in a production environment.



This sort of work was only used in manual machining if it was absolutely unavoidable. Today, anything is possible with multi axis CNC. www.mintor.net is one example of a rather large two stroke engine machined from solid. There are quite a few more on the market.

Greg


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## steamer (May 11, 2012)

As my friend Rollie of "Rollies Dad's method of lathe alignment" fame has said. When you build a model such as this, you build it about 3 times.  Two of the "times" are all the fixtures you make to make the parts.  He often brings the box of fixtures for a model engine along to the show to demonstraight this point.  It is just part of the fun.

Dave


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## Ramon (May 11, 2012)

Hi Guy's - good to hear from someone  Nice to hear it's of interest Jim and thanks for your appreciation Jan

You're right about fixturing Dave it can add considerably to a build though so far on these small I/C engines it's been kept at a minimum. I try not to make too many jigs either if I can help it though I did make a simple drill jig for the backplate/front housing screws on the Eta's. I have a Bentley BR2 well underway (for far too long but that's another story :) and the tooling, jigs and fixtures for that add up to a considerable amount of time and work on top of the parts themselves. Like your friend, on the rare occasion when it does get shown there appears as much interest in the 'extras' as the model parts

Greg, scaling the engines so far has been a very pleasurable exercise and they have all run well. Are you making anything at the moment? I have several ideas for others but whether they materialise or not remains to be seen but it's nice to dream. I don't intend to fit any of them in a model though - the desire to build and fly no longer has the intense attraction it once did. As for CNC - well as much as I would love the facility I don't think I could cope with the learning phase all over again. I ran a Haas machining centre for the last few years at work - I can't even remember the first line of code - but coupled with todays CAM software (I was never so lucky!) it would make short work of this that's for sure.

Nothing much happened to day - had an old friend visit for most of the morning which took care of that and when I set the spigot onto the chuck plate for mounting on the R/T I found the chuck plate had a run out in it so time has been spent putting that right - couple that with 'garden distraction' for a few of hours and that's the day gone

Oh well - "Maybe tomorrow Jack"

Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (May 11, 2012)

It's funny your mention the BR2 ....that's one of the engines that Rollie always brings to the shows with the "extras"!.

Dave


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## mu38&Bg# (May 11, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> Greg, scaling the engines so far has been a very pleasurable exercise and they have all run well. Are you making anything at the moment?



Well sort of, I'm finishing up a contract to build a pair of electromechanical actuators. After that, I hope to get on to an engine build and the Emco lathe. I have a few RC engine modification projects I should finish as well. I too have dreamed up a variety of complex engine designs, but I' think I'll build a single cylinder diesel out of the Motor Boys book. Then, maybe, I'll look at mounting a block of aluminum on the 4th axis and have the mill produce a crankcase exterior. What I really need to do though is be more productive in the shop.

Greg


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## Ramon (May 11, 2012)

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> I' think I'll build a single cylinder diesel out of the Motor Boys book.



Spoilt for choice there Greg  I have thoughts on the Vivell 09 at some time and Rons new drawing of the Nalon Viper - next up I think.

Thanks for the confirmation Dave  

Hell this thing is so slow tonight - time for another early night

Ramon


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## LADmachining (May 11, 2012)

I am following your build with interest Ramon - as I have all of your other 'adventures' on this and the Model Engineer site.

Your pictures and methods are certainly an inspiration for me to get back out in the workshop sometime soon for some I/C - the only thing I have made recently have been titanium wedding rings for myself and my wife to be. 8)


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## Ramon (May 14, 2012)

Hi Guys 

'LADmachining'
Good to hear you are still holding an interest in I/C Anthony. Never fear you'll get there in the end though your latest project sounds as good a reason as any could be for firing up the lathe  BTW (and I have a vague feeling I may have asked you this before but if so call it an age thing) - 'Sparey -(x2) is that 2 off or twice size - that'll swing a good sized prop if it's the latter 

Well having wore myself to a standstill in the garden yesterday - just about to wander through to the old comfort zone when "It's a lovely day dear do you think you could just ....... : - strike action was called for for today ;D

It's been slow work entailing repeat set ups of R/T, fixtures, vise etc but its beginning to look like a crankcase - one more session, possibly two at most, should see it ready for final fettling and finish. A few more pics to bring it up to date.......

Work began on the rear end by milling the lower faces around the valve housing to near finish size (0.1mm left on for filing) Disaster struck when the long series 4mm endmill plucked the web virtually on the last cut on #1 case. This was commonly referred to as 'Catching a crab' when at work does anyone else use that phrase to describe this sort of mishap? Damage to the case was minimal and will disappear when the web is shaped later but the loss of said, near new, endmill was/is a bit of a blow. There were several 3/16 LS EM's but no 4mm to replace it with however another one but with three broken teeth was found. The jagged bits were ground back and the one tooth used as a flycutter - it worked fine but caution _was_ the byword. Managed to get the second case done with this 'modified' cutter without further breakages











It was now possible to make a few tentative scrapes with a needle file to see how things looked. Coating with felt tipped pen is a good aid to see what needs removing










Finally milling could begin around the intake area





Another much smaller dia cutter was made from silver steel to do the rear rebate - 4.5 dia with a 2.8 shank, hardened but not tempered as usual (for me)





The cases were set in the vise to mill the relief under the bosses and another bit of fettling with a 'dremel' and burrs have them like this so far





So far this has taken a fair bit longer than anticipated so I hope it's not getting too boring, I know I'm getting a bit tired of the constant set ups but have to admit that as that shape gradually appears it does give me a bit of a lift

Hopefully however, it will not be too long before that final fettling can begin.

Regards for now - Ramon


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## vcutajar (May 15, 2012)

Hi Ramon

I am still following your build. I enjoy your setup shots and detailed descriptions.

Vince


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## Ken I (May 15, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> I hope it's not getting too boring



Not a chance - keep on posting.

Ken


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## steamer (May 15, 2012)

Wot Ken Said!

Dave


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## rhitee93 (May 15, 2012)

Ramon, your attention to detail on the Waller build caused me to set new standards for myself. Now with this build you are blowing me away with the technical aspects of the machining ops.

I'm hooked, but my ego is whimpering over in the corner!


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## Ramon (May 15, 2012)

Well on that note Ken ..... 

No pics tonight guys but I can say that the first case has finally been milled around that rear end to a finished state and a good start made on fettling to clean up the shape - so far its cleaning up nicely and should convey the shape of the original reasonably well. The second case is following closely behind with just a small bit left to mill tomorrow - I'm still carefully trying to hold on to the remains of that LS 4mm cutter (which so far is holding out well, fingers crossed) and began to feel quite tired so decided not to push it further.

Brian - I fervently hope that these postings will inspire others with less skill to at least consider the possibilities of attempting likewise. I love my hobby(ies) and will willingly share the knowledge that has been acquired over the years with anyone who's interested enough to view - or ask. I should stress though that I look at work produced by others far, far more skilled and think just the same as you - so it's all relative  

Dave - you ole 'wordsmith' - May I be so bold Sire as to inform you that truly I hold dearly the notion that you do indeed possess the dexterity to express yourself with a gentile eloquence of such magnitude; ;D ;D ;D

All being well guys there should be some more pics tomorrow 


Regards - Ramon


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## steamer (May 15, 2012)

Aah Shucks!  you talk purrty! :-*


 ;D


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## Ken I (May 16, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> I fervently hope that these postings will inspire others



Ramon, I've been toying with building a glow plug motor like this - so I am following avidly - man that crankcase is a piece of work.

Ken


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## Ramon (May 16, 2012)

Hi Ken, that's good to hear. Have you got anything specific in mind? Design, capacity, type etc? At some stage I'd like to do a glow too and also a sparkie but that's a bit down the line as yet.

Well that 4mm cutter lasted through to the end and both cases are finish milled as far as the rear end is concerned - here are a few pics of the last ops

Initially the waste was taken out by very tentative plunge milling.......





........and very fine radial cuts





Finally these ops on both cases were finished 





Both cases are now fettled and shaped using a 'dremel' type hand power unit and sundry burrs, files etc





Still looking just a 'wee bit rough' the foreground one is now ready for fine filing and smoothing prior to bead blasting, all of which can be done as and when the mood takes whilst the next part (front bearing housing) is underway 





Obviously the engine lugs will need shaping at some stage and fitting the rear bearing sleeve and boring out the intake as well as cross drilling for the needle valve but those ops wont be tackled until all the finishing is completed.

So far so good then. Getting the main case sorted is a big milestone and means the remainder of the parts can be tackled at a more leisurely approach. 

Back soon with the next bit then 

Regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (May 27, 2012)

Hi Guy's been out of it for a while - smitten by yet another dose of 'man-flu' - my immune system seems shot to pieces at the moment - though a speedy recovery. Ha! cold hit on the Wednesday - on the Saturday awoke to find a totally blocked drain. No choice but to fix it - three hours later and a spotlessly clean system it dawned that I hadn't smelt a thing :big: :big: Trouble is that was Saturday week ago and I still have no sense of smell. On visit to the garden centre Friday for new herb plants even stuffing crushed Mint leaves and Orregano up the nostrils had no effect.

Very little to report on the cases but they are finally shaped and ready for the last machining ops which I hope to get to grips with this week along with the front housings - cut the material off for those this evening. The long period of wet weather finally came to an end which allowed access to the woodworker so this long in the making 'improvement' to the workshop also reached a (near) conclusion but also got in the way - it was worth doing though - looks a lot better, more storage space and a bit more floor space to boot. Now all I have to do is find things in their new places always assuming I can remember where I put them!

I know you like such things so here's the before....











and the after.......





Incidentally the motor bolted to the wall is the 'slow speed attachment' for the drill which has a standard low speed of 425 rpm. By 'driving' the drill motor with the secondary one speeds low enough for tapping and reaming are obtained. No reverse though 





Still a way to go before filling this all up but I guess that wont take long and there are still one or two things left to finish off but they can happen as and when - the open area on the left BTW is destined for some glass shelves and a front .

Took the opportunity to replace the lighting too - 'cor' what a difference that's made ;D

Couple all this with a couple of day's in the garden in glorious sunshine it hasn't left much for the engine but as said I did manage to finalise the shape....






That's the current state of play then, not much further forward but things should move a bit quicker now.

Regards - Ramon


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## steamer (May 27, 2012)

Nice looking bench!  Tell me now what the motor is on the wall.....phase converter?

Dave


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## vcutajar (May 28, 2012)

Nicely organized Ramon. How long do you reckon it's going to remain like that? ;D

I see (from the wall plugs) that you are in the UK. For some reason I always assumed you are in the States.

Vince


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## Ramon (May 28, 2012)

Not too long Vince I guess  - though I do like a tidy workshop once things get going then 'stuff' builds up on the bench at an alarming rate into 'bench overload' culminating as always in time out to tidy up and have a fresh start ;D
When I reach the point that I can't see things that are right in front of me then I know it's time for a clean up. 

Dave - the motor on the wall is nothing more than that - another 1/4hp 1425 rpm SP motor. Its wired into a double throw 'selector' switch in the junction box which in turn is wired to the switch on the drill itself - switch up to select wall motor, down for the drill motor. By running a belt from it's small pulley to the large one on the drill motor I get considerable reduction of the lowest drill speed. I've never worked it out but it's probably around the 50 -75 rpm area, well slow enough for tapping using a 'Tapmatic' or on occasion with a tap in the chuck though as said with the latter there's no reverse. With this amount of reduction though the spindle stops pretty quickly so it's easy enough to stop in time, release the chuck and finish/remove tap by hand.

Regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (May 31, 2012)

Managed to get a bt of shop time in yesterday and today and have the two cases virtualy finished and finally begun work on those front housings.

I guess you must be getting fed up with all these case pics - it's gone very quiet out there - but here's the last few for those who may be still be hangin on in there .....

Set that spigot onto a block as a temporary fixture for finally cutting the rear web





Also used for trimming the lugs to profile





The rear sleeves were drilled bored and reamed then set on an expanding mandrel for taking the OD's down (.5mmwall thickness). The pic makes it look like brass but it is in fact drawn Phos Bronze. It proved a real pig to drill despite freshly sharpend drills and got extremely hot but bored and reamed the last .2mm without a hitch





Back on the angle fixture the 4mm hole previously drilled was indicated then the intake drilled through..





.. the venturi taper turned....





...then transfered to the mill for the last but one op drilling and spotfacing for the spray bar





With another couple of hours spent with an assortment of needle files and rifflers, various grades of wet and dry paper stuck to differing shaped hard wood sticks, Garryflex blocks and 000 wire wool they are ready at last for bead blasting. The last op, to put the groove in on the end of the valve housing will get done after blasting.





Well I guess a big sigh of relief is called for as it's all been a bit long winded but seeing them there on the bench makes it worth it. I hope however I haven't stretched your attention span too much, my apologies if so :-[


At last however the next part (the front housing) can be tackled and one which should be much quicker though still requiring some fixture work. 
These few pics are of the ops carried out today...

Began by setting up the same as the case and drilling, boring and reaming for the front sleeve as well as boring the ballrace housing and front register





After the turning the holes were drilled on the mill using coordinates .





Held on another expanding mandrel the front portion could be tackled....















Now theres a fair session on the rotary table ahead but I couldn't resist this early look 






That's a lot of pic's - hope that's not 'overload' :

Regards - Ramon


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## metalmad (May 31, 2012)

Hi Ramon
they are looking so good Mate :bow:
Pete


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## ProdEng (May 31, 2012)

Not fed up with the case pictures at all, it's been an education. Making a machined part look like a casting is fascinating and watching all the steps unfold makes it easier to understand how this can be achieved. Ramon, your Table Engine redefined my view of what a model should look like and this one continues to push the boundaries so thanks for the effort.

Jan


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## ShedBoy (May 31, 2012)

Fantastic work as always Ramon :bow:

Brock


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## steamer (May 31, 2012)

Ramon
Sick of it!? 

Your not hinting that you would preclude detail in your following posts are you!

Dont even think about it!

 ;D


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## vcutajar (Jun 1, 2012)

Ramon

I can never have enough ...............photos.

Vince


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## Jasonb (Jun 1, 2012)

Keep them comming, just because I'm not saying wonderful work etc after each of your updates does not mean I'm not following along.

One quick question do you mask or blank off the mating surfaces and internals before you blast the cases?

J


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## Ramon (Jun 1, 2012)

Hi guys - good to hear from you. It's not about recieving praise Jason, just that as with the Waller engine when you sit here and take the time to put a lot of pics and text up if theres no feed back it makes one wonder if it's being seen as overdoing things - I'm never quite sure how to re-act - to continue or back off a bit ???.

I confess, the thing I would really like to hear is if anyone is engaged in doing something similar and how they are going about it too. These small engines have always featured prominently throughout my modelling life but making them is a comparatively new ball game so to hear what others do would be most rewarding.

Re the blasting - yes. Usually double layer of masking tape or blanks made from thin ply. I find tapped holes are best sealed with the relevant bolts - my friend Lee whose blaster I have used previously gave me some black putty like substance apparently intended for this pupose but I found it a real pain to clear it out after.

Regards - Ramon


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## steamer (Jun 1, 2012)

Nah....for me it's during the week and work's nuts!... ;D

I have been watching your wonderful use of fixtures and am envious!  I often don't have the patience for such things, and then wished I had!

 :bow: :bow:

Dave


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## dsquire (Jun 1, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> Hi guys - good to hear from you. It's not about recieving praise Jason, just that as with the Waller engine when you sit here and take the time to put a lot of pics and text up if theres no feed back it makes one wonder if it's being seen as overdoing things - I'm never quite sure how to re-act - to continue or back off a bit ???.
> 
> Regards - Ramon



Ramon

Just because you don't get a lot of replies doesn't mean that people are not watching. Just look at the header on the first message at the top of every page.



> Topic: Super Tigre G32 1cc diesel - a 5cc version (Read 3275 times)



That is a better indicator of how many people are watching. If everyone left a reply and you took the time to read them, you would have no time left to make chips fly. :big: :big:

I have been watching since the start and have watched the way in which you carved those castings out of the solid block. That in itself is a piece of art that will be noticed. Keep up the fine work Ramon, a lot of people will be watching. :bow:

Cheers 

Don


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## seagar (Jun 1, 2012)

Hi Ramon.I raced F.A.I. team race during the 1970,s and used ETA & Super Tigre 15s and am now trying to make engines with no trade background,so I am following your posts with great interest and admiration.Thank you for sharing your build with us.
I wish I still had my old engines to take dimentions off but like a lot of us we didn't think to the future and let our personal history go.

Best wishes, Ian.
(seagar)


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## lazylathe (Jun 1, 2012)

All i can say is WOW again Ramon!!!! ;D

I am still amazed at you last build of the Table Engine!
That one is going to take a while to get over! :bow:

Everything looks perfect!
I am too scared to comment sometimes because i do not know where or what to say!! 

Andrew


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## Ramon (Jun 1, 2012)

Hi guys thanks for responding. 

Firstly I appreciate your coments but hasten to say I hope mine won't be construed as some kind of rant or whinge based on some kind of expectation :-[. That was most definitely not my intention - it's just I get a bit worried :

I have indeed noticed the number of visits Don and that is where I find the paradox :-\ If no one says anything I begin to get uneasy that I'm forcing something on people that isn't what is wanted. Truly, I don't wish to be considered in that way however, I do appreciate what you are saying and will keep your thoughts firmly in mind from here on. 

Ian, it's good to hear from someone with a similar interest. If I can help in any way just ask. Though I have operated them for many years I don't have a vast knowledge on engines - you T/R boys are the ones for that  but if I can I will. My only involvement with T/R was through the very low key 'Mini Goodyear' event (my wife Sue was the pilot) for a few years and a very short foray at that time into vintage. I can't help with the Super Tigre but I do have a set of CAD drawings (currently being updated) for the ETA Mk1 and 2 should you be interested

Not much to report today but to keep 'Steamer' Dave happy here's another one of those simple but extremely useful types of fixture that will no doubt be recycled for something similar in the future......Made from a piece of scrap ally plate (hence the milling cuts) this was bored on the faceplate to hold the front housings for milling the webs. When it was split it closed very slightly - enough to tighten onto the housings - by passing the clamp bolt through a nut in the gap it was very easy to slacken the bolt and use the nut to prise it apart slightly to allow for easy movement






The sides of the webs were defined first by a series of plunge milling cuts (about .5mm at a time) At this stage the rotary table was locked and not used for indexing the part. Indexing was done by slackening the fixture and rotating the part to the next side, squaring it off the back column. By having the table stops set all movements were evenly spaced about the centre.





. 

Once all four webs were defined the the remainder was removed by rotary milling - again indexing the part rather than the table. These milling ops were the 'roughing' using a 3/16 cutter - tomorrow it will all get repeated with a 4mm for finishing





And so far tonight they look like this....





Dave - I know what you mean re making fixtures. I really have to force myself if something like the angled block for the cases needs making - always looking for the easy way around it but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and get it done. The bummer is, on something like that block, is that it's very unlikely to be used for something else :

Regards for now - Ramon


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## ShedBoy (Jun 1, 2012)

All these set up shots are going to be handy. I am going to build a small glow next. Parts look great Ramon.

Brock


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## SBWHART (Jun 2, 2012)

Nice work work Ramon, some real interesting set ups looking forward to the next instalment.

Stew


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## Blogwitch (Jun 2, 2012)

Ramon,



> These milling ops were the 'roughing' using a 3/16 cutter - tomorrow it will all get repeated with a 4mm for finishing



If we didn't read your posts, how come we can pick up your deliberate mistakes. I read and try to understand every word that is written by all contributors to a topic, but it doesn't mean I should automatically add more to a post.

I myself am renowned for waiting to almost or actually to the end of a topic before opening my big mouth and giving due praise.

On some of my old long posts about building an engine, I used to have to asked people not to post too much, as otherwise rather than say ten pages, it would have ended up at least double that, most of it containing irrelevant information.

You just carry on doing what you are doing, we are not ignoring you and you aren't boring us either. We are sitting here gobsmacked at what you are doing.


John


Thesaurus for gobsmacked:

speechless astonished blown away dumbfounded shocked stunned surprised


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## Jasonb (Jun 2, 2012)

I don't see a mistake, Ramon uses the stiffer 3/16" cutter to hog out most of the waste and then the 4mm for the final light cuts and also to get the internal radii that he wants. Or am I missing something?

J


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## Ramon (Jun 2, 2012)

Thanks for the kind comments guys and particularly your thoughts John. I am beginning (slowly - too slowly I guess :) to see the way of things on here but I take note of what you say so will heed the counsel 

I try my best not to make mistakes (in a post) but know I do and typically never see them until it's too late :-[ but that's only human I guess. 
In this instance however Jason has gauged my thinking correctly, I have used the larger cutter for roughing not wishing to risk the _newly purchased_(Ebay - 7 quid!) 4mm LS EM in this instance. Strange but I simply didn't see the 'reverse situation' until you pointed it out John.
Usually when milling a pocket or cavity of some kind I would set the stops just a couple of thou under for the finishing size cutter - usually 6mm, sometimes 4mm and then rough out using a 5mm or 3 before finishing with the correct cutter, loosening the stops at the last moment and taking it to size on the DRO readings. 

Well, having had the usual excursion to the local market - even shed dwellers have to eat - and with the wife off to visit the enemy, errr - mother in law, theres only one place to be. Time to break out that new cutter then 

Thanks again, back soon - Ramon


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## seagar (Jun 2, 2012)

Hi Ramon,yes I would be VERY interested in drawings for an ETA.The 1st engine I raced was a well worn ETA but It gave me my 1st win in rat race.

Could you please tell me how much and how you would like to be paid.
My email address is in my profile for your reply. 

Thank you for your generous offer,regards Ian


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## Blogwitch (Jun 3, 2012)

Jason & Ramon,

I was actually nit picking and also raising a point that I do read and understand most of what is written in a post.

The reason I did raise the point of the going to a smaller diameter from a larger one is to do mainly with surface finishes.

3/16" to 5mm means that throughout the cleaning up process, the cutter is getting the same chip load, whereas going smaller means that the cutter will be having varying chip loadings, especially when cutting into corners, that is when you start to get changes in surface finishes, usually resulting in more handwork to clean it up.

I often use a combination of imperial and metric cutters, purely because you can get very close to each other, then coming to correct size with the final sized cutter. So for roughing out, 3/16" (approx 4.8mm), then finishing off with a 5mm cutter, only taking off 0.2mm (0.008") for final skim.


John


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## Jasonb (Jun 3, 2012)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> So for roughing out, 3/16" (approx 4.8mm), then finishing off with a 5mm cutter, only taking off 0.2mm (0.008") for final skim.



Won't that take off 0.1mm eg half the difference  

J


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## Blogwitch (Jun 3, 2012)

I make mistakes as well Jason.

None of us are immune to it, and I am sure, even yourself.

Unless of course you can walk on water as well.


John


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## Ramon (Jun 3, 2012)

Now Now guy's, no scrapping on my watch please  

John, In all my years of milling I haven't heard that analogy before - no, I'm not disputing it, I can see the logic, just never come across it till now.

As said the reason for using the 4.8 cutter before the 4 was to preserve that nice new 4 for the finishing. Had I had another 4 I would have used that first leaving about .5mm to come off in .1mm cuts. (No, I haven't broken that 'one toothed' cutter used for the case but I have mislaid it - cant find it anyware, those bloody workshop gremlins are at it again).

I'm certain you are aware but the one thing with using long series end millls in corners like this is that they have a tendency to pull themselves into the work down their length obviously flexing more at the bottom. This was the reason I used plunge cuts for most part and only cutting in sideways at the very last. I only managed to finish mill one part yesterday and was surprised to find despite doing the above that the 4.8 had done just that and pulled into the webs. Fortunately there was, literally, _just_ sufficient for them to clean up with the 4mm. (we need a smiley for 'Phew')

Hopefully I'll get onto the second one today - perhaps back a bit later then.

Ian - you are more than welcome to the drawings - I certainly do not wish to make money out of them. Did you realise however that they are for my scaled up 5cc version and not the original. Currently they are being updated to include the Mk3 and Elite versions which I hope to make at some stage though heaven knows when that will be :

Regards - Ramon


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## Blogwitch (Jun 3, 2012)

Ramon,

I was trying a bit of light humour, not chastising our young Jason.

It was just the way I was brought up with using the mill, the more constant you can keep the chip load, usually the better the finish and closer tolerances.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, that was the way my mentor taught me how to do it, maybe yours didn't think to tell you or even know about it. I use exactly the same method for when doing slots and pockets, set up for using the larger cutter then use the slightly smaller one first, then follow up with the larger correct size using the same settings.


John


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## Ramon (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes - me too John 

I would certainly agree about keeping the load as constant and consistent as possible. Likewise your sentiment on the way one goes about things - it's the end result that matters as most time nothings ever _really_ cast in stone. One can always learn a new way to walk the dog. I trained in my early thirties as a milling machinist (Not a miller! ) but once into work always preferred turning - and still do. Although I have good and clear memories of major aspects of my life I find some of the minutiae hard to keep a grip of and that definitely is an age thing. I find retaining the way I go about things on a daily basis harder and harder to recall - the digital camera has been a great asset in that respect.

Regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jun 6, 2012)

Hi Guys, just a little update and yep the cases are finished woohoo1

I confess they have come out much better than I anticipated - well I think so  - as it would have been so easy to mill away material that should have been left. It's certainly increased confidence to tackle something on similar lines. Breaking the machining down into small but progressive steps it's surprising how quickly the shape materialises.

Last few days has seen the odd opportunity to finish those front ends.........

Setting the part square to the machine. R/T at '0'






Inking up gives a good indicator as to where and how the cutter is performing















That plate fixture was pressed into use again to bring the edges square and true to the register 





And once more to mill the webs to size





Using double sided sticky tape and some hardwood sticks some custom emery sticks were quickly made using various grades of wet and dry





The 'fettling' kit as used for all faces - a few files , emery sticks mainly 400 and 600 grit and pieces cut off Garryflex abrasive blocks.





And after a few pleasurable(?) 'finger stressing' hours there they were - finally finished. Hope you think it was worth it after all this time 














As mentioned previously these parts will eventually be bead blasted to give the surface finish a more consistent appearance but that's a while down the road as yet.

I have not machined or renovated an engine with a single bearing and an inserted sleeve before. It occurred, well after both housings had been removed from the chuck, that when boring the bearing housings that I should have had the sleeves finished on the OD ready to Loctite into the bore and _then_ bore the sleeve and bearing housing to ensure absolute concentricity. That situation is not important for the rear sleeve but it will be at the front. The sleeves will have to be turned inside and out in one hanging - I can hear the Phos bronze 'ringing' now : - made a press fit and lapped to fit the shaft to stand the best chance now - fingers crossed.

It was worth the extra effort making two cases, the minor slip up when milling the transfer passages shows just how easy it is to make an error but having now ended up with two usable cases well ...... 

The drawings for the case and front housing have been updated as work has highlighted the need. Once finished I'll post them here - no downloads until it's finished and proven - lesson learnt there :-[

The major, time intensive, part is over. Next up after those sleeves will be the cranks and the drum valves then onto my 'favourite' parts the piston and liners

As always, I hope this has been of use or benefit to someone

Regards for now - Ramon


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## dsquire (Jun 6, 2012)

Ramon

 :bow: Wow, those are some beautiful castings. I believe that you have talent that you didn't know that you had. It just goes to show what a bit of time and patience can do. You certainly are doing a top notch job on this engine. I'll be watching as you complete it. :bow:

Cheers 

Don 3965​


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## bearcar1 (Jun 6, 2012)

It seems that you have raised the bar to another level with these fine examples of your work, Ramon. Gees, a guy can't catch a break here. :big: :bow:

BC1
Jim


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## steamer (Jun 6, 2012)

"As always, I hope this has been of use or benefit to someone

Regards for now - Ramon"


Oh come now Ramon!  What an understatement!

I don't really need to answer that!  :bow: :bow:

Dave


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## SBWHART (Jun 7, 2012)

Fantastic 

Stew


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## Blogwitch (Jun 7, 2012)

Wonderful hand finishing there Ramon, it is nice to see another true artisan at work. :bow: :bow: :bow:

George B. is the only other one I have seen who seems to get this sort of fantastic finish by shaping with their hands.

I don't think a lot of people realise just how effective hand tools and elbow grease can be. 

Nothing can beat it for quality looks, and your bits sure are lookers.


John


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## vcutajar (Jun 7, 2012)

Ramon

Beautiful work and finish. I do not think I would have that patience to hand finish it to that standard.

I have been meaning to ask a question. Ramon, there a two wide slots opposite each other in the cylinder bore. Could you please tell me which tool you used for those slots? A long series end mill?

Thanks and keep it up

Vince


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## Ken I (Jun 7, 2012)

Absolutely brilliant - watching you "sculpt" metal the way you do is both impressive and inspirational.

Ken


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## seagar (Jun 7, 2012)

BOY!!!!! What can I say. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Ian (seagar)


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## Don1966 (Jun 7, 2012)

Gee!! Ramon you are a metal sculpter. You take metal a sculp it into beauty. And one thing about you is that you make it look so easy. :bow: :bow: How do we get it to rub off on us here? I am so inspired by your work and can only wish to be as good as you are. Please don't stop give us you documentation and detail progress.

Don


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## Ramon (Jun 7, 2012)

Hi guys - thanks for your very kind and encouraging remarks - all of you. 

I think I have said before that for me 'skill', 'expertise', 'whatever', is all relative. I firmly believe that. There will be those of less skill and definitely those of more out there and we all have the opportunity to give and take from each other. I don't see what I do in this or my other hobby (plastic modelling) as anything 'special' - it's just 'what I do'. I certainly don't see myself as any kind of knowledgeable tutor either but I will happily share what knowledge I have acquired (and thats getting a lot bloody harder to recall at times :) and whatever I've made or details of how I've made it with anyone who's interested. I can say though that nothing does give me greater pleasure in realising that someone else has been inspired enough in having a go at something because of something I have made. Hell, I hope thats not considered as egotistical cause it 'very much aint' - I don't look for it but its a nice feeling when it happens 

Vince the two wide slots are the transfer passages and were cut radially using a 1/8 (3.2mm) long series round nose slot drill. 

Nothing done today - Sues on holiday and I had the pleasure of accomanying her to the city for 'shopping'  However the forecast is wet and windy for tomorrow - ha-ha, ha-ha 

Something that slipped the net on the last posting for those who may wish to know - those initial blocks began at 605gms for the case and 165 for the housing and finished up at 88 and 43 gms respectively - quite a bit of swarf!

Regards for now - Ramon

Mod - I see my dyslexic side got to grips with the weight - 605 should have been 560 :


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## gbritnell (Jun 7, 2012)

Beautiful work on your crankcase pieces. It takes a lot of work to get aluminum parts smooth looking. It's just a testament to how well you machined them in the first place. These ought to be a pair of fine looking engines when complete.
gbritnell


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## LADmachining (Jun 8, 2012)

Amazing work Ramon! Really can't wait to see how the rest of the parts turn out!



			
				Ramon  said:
			
		

> 'LADmachining'
> Good to hear you are still holding an interest in I/C Anthony. Never fear you'll get there in the end though your latest project sounds as good a reason as any could be for firing up the lathe  BTW (and I have a vague feeling I may have asked you this before but if so call it an age thing) - 'Sparey -(x2) is that 2 off or twice size - that'll swing a good sized prop if it's the latter



I am building two Spareys - well, it could be three. I found some porosity in one of the castings, which Hemingway replaced FOC. I don't think it will be detrimental to the running of the engine, but I may just make a 'sectioned' version from all of the bits that don't make the grade for the two good engines!

A post about my build is here:- http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6789.msg72848#msg72848

A twice size Sparey would be a formidable beast - 40cc of finger biting Diesel goodness. Do you think it would be possible to turn it over by hand?  

I did take some progress pics of the wedding ring manufacture, but they are either out-of-focus or lost completely. Only decent pic is of the finished items. May put it up in one of the other sections when I get a moment.

Keep up the great work - the more words and pictures the better!

Are you planning on entering these jewels in one of the UK ME shows this year - just so I know not to bother entering any of mine, as they wouldn't stand a chance. 

Anthony


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## Ramon (Jun 8, 2012)

George - thank you for your thoughts, much appreciated I assure you.

Anthony - that's a freudian slip on my part - wot another? - I meant of course twice capacity  - but you're right, something twice size and around 40cc would be some beast. The largest model 'diesel' I know of is a .60cu in - 10cc does anyone know if anything larger has been made and successfully run? I seem to recall reading somewhere that there is a limitation on capacity due to the ether based fuel used. Anyone have any thoughts on this and whether this is so?
You've made a good start - get back onto it as soon as you feel able, they make nice engines and run steadilly. I like the idea of a sectioned one too

Despite best intentions little done to day but near disaster tonight. Got in the workshop a bit late but turned the first sleeve and turned up a spigot to hold in the pillar drill to use it as a press. Got everything ready, parts lightly Loctited, heated up the housing with a hot air gun and then with one swift movement pressed home the sleeve OOOPS oh: infact Double OOPS oh: oh:. I'd forgotten about the depth of the bearing housing and hadn't allowed for it on the length of the spigot so the sleeve stopped short with about 5mm left to go. Aaggh   - engage rapid action mode (that doesn't come easy these days!) and drop spigot in chuck - retighten. Too late, Loctite rapidly gaining a hold. Frantic unveiling of little used home made flypress and with a couple of heart stopping seconds of 'will it - wont it' a couple of thumps saw it home - Pheewwww 

Sorry guys but there was no time to take any pics :big:

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jun 9, 2012)

Well Guys, the second sleeve got pressed in with a little less panic today . 

As the flypress had now seen light of day for the first time for yonks I used that. Here it is ready to go...





You may be interested a little in it's 'history' - I made this press a long time ago but it's seen little use and usually sits under it's cloth cover out of sight and mind. It began life after a chance 'scrounge'. I see theres another thread on here on scrounging - I would guess this meets the criteria . At my last but one place of work much of the work was surface and form grinding. At one stage we had a Jones and Shipman fitter in to replace some cross motion leadscrews in the 540 grinders. There laying on the floor were the two replaced leadscrews looking very shiny. Investigation showed a two start thread with a lovely big bronze nut. Once further investigation determined they were destined for the bin it was straight into the manager 'on the cadge' - instant result ;D The press was 'built around' one screw which was modified to suit, the other modified too to be kept as a spare. It was all built from spare plate scrounged over the years and machined up after work finished. Incidentally the steel used for the ram was without doubt _the_ toughest material to machine experienced in the best part of thirty years. Heaven knows what it was - probably tool steel sent in from the parent company but redundant and never used as there was no spec. 

Made a start on the cranks today too. As with all the engines made so far the cranks will be 'composites'. In order to preserve the limited stock of EN24T (another scrounge - I occasionally get bar ends from auto feeders from a local machine shop) the main body, web and crankpin are all turned from EN24 with the front reduced diameter turned from a caphead screw and inserted through the main shaft. It's not drawn as such - that's done as one piece but just my way of doing it. So far it has proved more than substantial enough to take the forces involved. 
Heres a few pics of the start of the process.......

The initial blanks, turned to overall length plus 1mm and with a small centre in one end. Note the lovely finish as bought in on this bar feeder stock





First up was to reduce the main shaft area to fit inside the largest collet available (16mm)





Then set up using a vee block to place a very small centre at the correct offset for the crankpin





Next up is the worst bit on this part, removing the waste around the crankpin. There are basically two ways- milling it away as here or turning it off. Personally, milling is preferred to turning due to the amount required to be turned as 'interupted cuts'.





Due to the size of the mill I prefer to use small diameter cutters so light cuts - .6mm / .025" and a fairly fast feed rate soon bites into it despite the toughness. I have no coolant set up so apart from the odd drop applied with a brush if things get a bit hot the cuts can't be too big anyway. I try to use old cutters for this op as finish is not important and preserving the good ones is





And this is the stage tonight ready for the next ops back on the lathe..





Looks like a garden day tomorrow cleaning up after the last two windy days but I'll get back with some further pics of the next ops before too long 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jun 11, 2012)

Hi Guys, - a few more pics of the crankshaft ops....

First up was to drill and ream right through 7mm and counterbore 7.5 dia about 2.5 deep





Next up was to rough out the pin. The smaller of these turning fixtures was made at work many years ago but the one to be used was made recently to take larger shafts - boy do I miss the opportunity to jump on the J&S1400 grinder at lunch times . 





Extremely versatile in their capacity they make setting up a crankshaft to turn the pin a very easy op. Quick alignment using a centre...





..followed by truing with a wobbler





The inner shafts were turned from the shanks of 8mm high tensile caphead bolts and made a size for size fit. Using a parting tool set at a very slight angle the heads, .05mm up on the c'bore, have a fine taper applied on the leading edge to get a good 'plug' fit in the bore. They were then pressed home after liberally coating with Loctite 638 High Strength Retainer.










All being well these will get finish turned between centres tomorrow before finishing off the crankpins 

I'm not certain how the strength of the bolt material compares with EN24t but it's tough old stuff and so far this method has held up well on the engines made to date.

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jun 12, 2012)

A few more pics on these shafts .....

This is the small 'drive plate' which has proved very useful for turning shafts made so far between centres. The centre is removable/replaceable once turned too short and the crank pin locates in the slot for driving. 





The shafts were centred at the crankpin end first and the diameters then turned to plus .02mm and screwcut. I finished the first shaft by my (to date) usual method of using 240 grit emery followed by wet and dry paper........





......before I remembered I had a new toy : The new hone bought some time back at very reasonable cost on Ebay finally had it's christening ;D




The actual surface finish didn't seem to be improved by any significant amount versus using emery etc but the control on how much was removed certainly was.

Last turning op was to finish the crankpins and bring the web to thickness





It was hoped to get these finished tonight but a visit from a friend curtailed that - more a bit later then.

Regards - Ramon


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## seagar (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks for keeping us up to date ,I am really enjoying your build and learning lots about set ups. :bow:

Ian (seagar).


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## Don1966 (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks for the update Ramon I am learning more about turning crank shafts between you and JasonB. I really like your setup. I am trying to get more familiar with the use of the faceplate. The more operations I see using them the easier it looks. I look forward to more of you expert documention and photos.

Don


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## idahoan (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi Ramon

Your work is just beautiful; thank you for taking the time to post the pictures and descriptions. I have been enjoying your build so far and I'm always looking forward to an update.

I do have a question though; what is the propose of the inner shaft on the crank?


Thanks,
Dave


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## steamer (Jun 13, 2012)

Nice Ramon!

NICE FIXTURES!  your work is great as usual!

GailNM did a write up or should I say was written about for his version of the shaft hone in Model Engine Builder.....Nice unit.!

Dave


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## Ramon (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi Guys, thanks for your comments - it's good to hear from some of you and pleased to note this is helping in some way.

Dave(Idahoan) Theres no real purpose as such but the reasoning goes back to my first engine build - the Nova. At that time, when it came to the crankshaft the only piece of En24T that I had was big enough to do one shaft but if done as described above was enough to get two out of if something went wrong. As it happened it didn't so I had a spare bit. I felt that the steel a high tensile bolt was probably suitable for the task and hence the method was born. I later scrounged some offcuts of En24T but to conserve them have continued with this method which so far appears to have stood up to the forces well. I'm not sure if I made it clear but the major part of the shaft is reamed for a size slightly larger than the front of the shaft finishes at ie in this case 7mm to finish 6.35mm -.250". Carrying out the finish turning between centres eliminates any slight discrepancy of the two parts.

Dave (Steamer) I saw the external hone article in MEB and had it earmarked it as a project. I had just missed out on some external hones on Ebay just before the article was published so was quite keen to make a set. However another two sets of hones, sold as one item, appeared a bit later and this time I was successful. Described as used and missing a screw  and allen key   imagine my surprise when they arrived to find they had never been used and were still covered in the maufacturers grease. Not a single stone or guide in either set had a mark on it. With no manufactures name on the cases I was beginning to think they may be eastern copies but no there was a raised 'delapena' hidden under that crackle finish on the arm and yesterday, when I cleaned that grease off I realised the clamp screw has all the details engraved on it. ;D. I used them again today to reduce the drum valve - can't wait to try them on the pistons 

Don, as Dave says on his Wallaby thread using a faceplate is a really good facility that some seem to forget about. It's a very versatile piece of kit and can cope with all kinds of set ups. I was hoping to show a couple of pics of something very simple but which is so very useful on the faceplate but I ran out of time tonight having only just finished the drum valves but I'll take some pics tomorrow.

Had a good session in the ole shop today heres a few more pics of progress....

After the crankpins were turned it was time to tackle that awkward bit of milling the crank web away. Awkward more in the means to hold it and align the crankpin true but having got the whole thing this far it's still a bit of a fraught time until the op is over - well it is for me 
It was gripped in the turning fixture itself held in the vise and the pin aligned by bringing a tapered spigot the same diameter as the crankpin down into the centre then the two could be aligned by a square off the back column






The milling was carried out in very tentative .5mm depths of cut before finishing the sides of the cut outs










The drum valves were turned from silver steel as these will need to be hardened at least on the disc where the drive is picked up. Straightforward turning and boring they are nothing more than top hats. They do need the inlet aperture milling in accurately to the crankpin hole however so another simple fixture was quickly made

Just a piece of flat BMS bar, obviously used for several other ops on parts in the past had two holes put in - one to locate the spigot bolted on, the other to accept a removable peg. (Yes, I did deburr the hole )





The valve was located over the spigot and aligned at the 42degrees called for and the vise tightened before removing the pin





The table stops were set for a 3mm cutter and the slot cut out using a 2.5mm cutter first to rough and then the 3mm to finish. The burrs look terrible - it's silver steel after all - but actually they removed very easily without any effect to the finished surface





Finished ready for heat treatment tomorrow hoping like hell that they dont distort!





Next up is to make a couple of laps to settle in the shafts and valves to their sleeves and make the prop driver and collet to finish off the 'bottom end'

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi guys, had a good day in the shop today, door open, sun shining in for a while, birds singing, tea on the go - ahh retirement ;D

Kicked off by taking a look at lapping out the sleeves. All of the laps made over the years save one have been copper and to the same design - more on them when the liner is tackled but they are fully adjustable and can be slacked off within the workpiece. 
The odd one - I have no idea what it was made for but it was done in a hurry - looked like this and due to the design is basically 'one way' only




Its a split aluminium lap tapered inside to match the mandrel which is 3/8 MS. The other day whilst rooting in some boxes I found the tapered reamer I'd made at the same time for the laps and I began to wonder if this could be improved to prevent the possibilty of over expanding and galling in the bore particularly on the drawn phos bronze about to be tackled. :idea:.
I turned the mandrel down and made a short sliding sleeve that would allow the part to pass over it but would allow the mandrel to be pushed out of the lap by slackening the screw, releasing the collet and applying pressure to the screw with the tailstock. It works great and opens up the possiblities for much easier to make laps that the copper ones made so far and ceratinly eases that fear of jamming the lap in the bore.

Sleeve is bottom left, original lap at top. (The grooves are not for holding paste but for easing the expanding pressure) and two internally tapered blanks for the laps.





Held on the mandrel the blanks were turned down to with .5mm of their finished size, removed and split on the mill then returned for turning to finished size such that the part would slip easily over the lap. This is the first lap finish turned and ready to use.





600 grit silicon carbide powder mixed with a little oil was used and though grades to 1000 are there to use the finish was more than acceptable and was left as sized.
The lap was liberally coated with the paste and, with the lathe still stationary, the part pushed over working it to get the paste evenly distributed. The lap was then tightened until a reasonable resistance was felt, and the lathe started up at about 2-300 rpm ( have no idea of the exact speed as its variable speed). The rear valve sleeves took very little time to bring to size 20 - 30 mins but the main bearings which had .05mm to come off took quite a bit longer





The lap should exhibit a nice uniform matt appearance if working properly





With the shafts lapped and fitted to their bores the prop driver and collet were tackled next. 
Prop drivers can be awkward little parts to make particularly if they have a tapered recess to fit a coned shaft or a collet which then requires the OD to be concentric and front knurled face to be axially aligned. If it's not then even a small discrepancy will be magnified at the prop tips. The big problem is that of getting the tapers of driver and collet exactly matched and the best way of achieving this to my mind is _not_ to alter the topslide once set

I admit to rather 'fussing' around this problem in the past trying to do it all in one hanging and turning the internal taper in reverse through the front face - fiddly indeed - but the following method was adopted on the ETA's where despite reservations it worked extremely well and certainly did so today.

First up was to prepare a blank .5mm over size and which was faced and had the taper cut. 





Parted off, it's reversed in the soft jaws and brought to thickness, parallel and the front recess turned. That finished the preparation.





Next up was the collet (it is more practical to do this part first) - made from brass - ali could, and in all probablility would, pick up or gall on the driver making it extremely difficult to remove. The taper was turned using a boring bar with the lathe running in reverse.





The blank was pushed on the taper and a parting tool brought up to touch the rear face.





With the blank removed the parting tool was brought forward (away from the chuck) .5mm and then plunged in to create a lip (which on assembly will be just inside the taper). The tool was moved back toward the chuck .05 to .1mm beyond it's start point and the collet parted off. This will give the collet once pushed back against the face on the crankshaft a small ridge to apply a lever under for removal and also a .05 to .1mm clearance of the driver to the front housing. - Hope that all makes sense ???





With the collet parted off another taper was turned but this time drilled and tapped 4BA. The prop driver blank was then held on this mandrel for knurling the front of the driver. The knurl is rotating on a dowel and is not captive being restrained in place by the thick washer. The cutting pressure was applied by the topslide leadscrew. 






Once this was done the outer diameter and reverse taper was turned and the rough edges of the knurling chamfered. The thick washer was removed, the driver sufficiently tight upon the taper to allow chamfering the inner edge.

I managed to get a start on the spinners tonight too so if theres an opportunity to finish them tomorrow there'll be bit more later - failing that its next week as I'm off for a day out at Duxford Imperial War Museum on Sunday ;D.

Hope I've described these basic ops ok for those who haven't done it before - if in any doubt 'don't hesitate'....

Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Jun 15, 2012)

I love the index ring behind the chuck Ramon!.....bet you use it too!

Dave


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## Don1966 (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks Ramon for your detailed schooling. I love to read your threads they are just full of information, as I learn every time I read them. I look forward to your continued teaching.

Don


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## ProdEng (Jun 15, 2012)

I like the lap design and have done a drawing in my note book for the next engine.

Jan


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## Jasonb (Jun 16, 2012)

You are making good progress Ramon, you may have seen on ME that I have started their little Firefly .46 so may give your lap a try on that.

Is your pension not stretching as far as you hoped, I see you have started separating & collecting brass swarf 

J


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## Ramon (Jun 16, 2012)

Hi again guys, it's good to hear from you - thought you might like to know that it's arrived at 'halfway house' ;D 

Managed to find some time this afternoon and evening to finish off the spinners........

..but first a pic of that collet just in case the description was a bit confusing. Sometimes, though not actually in this case, the collet tends to close a little when split. If no step is on the back of the collet it can be a real devil to get the collet moving enough to get something behind it sufficient to pull it off the shaft. Putting a step in it deals with that problem at a stroke.





The spinners began by facing two blanks to length, drilling and tapping and then 'carving' the recess to remove at least some weight. However, these are very much 'cosmetic' to replicate the original spinner nut which was solid but as these will never be fitted to an airframe weight reduction isn't that critical. The tool was ground to approximate shape from the remains of a broken 1/4" long series slot drill and the 'carving was done very much 'by eye'. Both blanks had short and identical registers bored as an aligning aid in finishing the outside.





The OD was skimmed for setting up in the mill to drill the cross hole on the centre line.





A short stub of the same material was drilled and tapped for a piece of studding and a spigot turned to match the spinner registers.





The blanks were then roughed as a series of tapers changing the spinner for each taper. 





Then each spinner was finished turned in one hanging again in a series of tapers before taking out the high points with a hand held scraper and the usual smoothing with a fine file, 240 grit emery, wet and dry and garryflex.





So with all these bits made it was time for a halfway 'dress rehearsal' 










The shafts turn freely enough and align with the valves okay however the bearings need fitting to be really sure that everything is in line but that will have to wait until the cases have been bead blasted.

Next up is the liners and pistons if the piece of material I have found is EN1a freecutting. If not some scrounging is in order  but what ever the tedious part is over.

Jason, Just trying (usually unsuccessfully) to keep it off the lathe bed, I tried collecting it but just found I had a swarf build up ;D Yes, I saw you're into the Firefly - watching with interest .
,
Jan, Re the lap - I found this to work very well and can see this method being pursued already visualising an 'improvement' by introducing a backing off screw mech. The only drawback I can see is that the force required to expand the lap is greater than the design I usually use however it can, unlike those, be expanded totally within the bore. More on this a bit later. 

Dave - well spotted - they were put in that chuck around 1981 and I don't even 'see them' let alone think about them these days. You are right they _are_ very useful and thought perhaps that it should have sufficient interest to warrant another post on it. Taken some pics tonight but it's an early rise in the morning so will not be able to do that until tomorrow night or Monday.

A day off from engineering then tomorrow to bask in the delights of the plastic model.

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ken I (Jun 16, 2012)

Nice going on the spinners - I presume that you worked out all the tapers beforehand to get the (presume parabloid) shape ?

I have turned curves by that method - but I used a wood chisel (horrors) on a rest to finalise the shape - it works well and the Aluminium comes off as very fine fluff. (Using the chisel upside down like a zero rake tool)
A word of caution on that method - ensure your tool cutting edge is on centre or below - above centre leads to a loud bang as the tool digs in - damaged part, chipped chisel, soiled underwear etc. etc. 

That's what happened to me the first time I tried it - but lesson learned, it hasn't happened since.

Ken


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## mklotz (Jun 16, 2012)

The shape in question is called an ogive. Any sphere cutter will cut an ogive if the center of rotation of the cutter is moved off the lathe axis.

Wikipedia has a good treatment of the subject - scroll down to tangent and secant ogives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose_cone_design


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## vcutajar (Jun 17, 2012)

Very nice work and informative as usual Ramon.

Vince


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## steamer (Jun 17, 2012)

Smashing!.......I think that means Wicked good!
 ;D
Dave


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## metalmad (Jun 17, 2012)

Oh WOW
They just look fast !!
I love it.
Pete


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## Ramon (Jun 18, 2012)

Hi guys, well it was a great day out yesterday but one which left me feeling quite tired by it's end. Pleased to say one of my models one it's class but then there were only two entries so no big deal but nice never the less. Obviously felt too tired for this last night 

I'm afraid there was very little scientific reasoning behind the spinner shape - very much an 'if it looks right it probably is' approach. Though drawn on cad it was just an arc drawn between the nose radius and the back face and stretched until it looked right then mirrored. A number of lines were drawn and the angles measured as here ......





I used the same method as you describe Ken, scraping around the profile removing the high spots until it looks reasonable. The tool I use is made from an old file (about 16mm wide , 3 thick and and about 200mm long. All the teeth are ground off and the end has a slight radius across its width the face being 'hollow ground' by holding square to the offhand grinder. The 'rest' is just a piece of 3/8" x 1/4" gauge plate held in a toolholder, positioned as close to the work as possible and set such that the top of the scraper is just on or just below centre line. Being flat - unlike the front of your upside down chisel  ;D - its much easier to control and rarely digs in.

Having ascertained that that piece of steel was indeed freecutting ;D work began on the liners today. Although a basic, straight forward, turning job a little care in the process will ensure good results .........

The blanks, faced square and to OA length plus .5mm had the top end roughed out leaving it 3mm up on finished diameter.





They were then held in the three jaw and drilled (3 steps - 4, 12, 16mm) first before being returned to be bored to within .5mm of finished diameter. The boring bar used was as big as could be got in the hole and the tool bit was ground by eye to give near enough a 45 degree lead





The od was turned leaving .5mm on diameter too. The chuck was then released and gently retightened with just sufficient force to grip the part for finishing the bore to size as well as the od and lower face of the flange. By leaving 3mm on the top portion the increased wall thickness left after boring and the very light clamping pressure minimises any likelyhood of the bore distorting when turning - something that will manifest itself immediately when lapping - a 'much better to eliminate it before it happens' kind of thing 










With the bottom ends done they were then held on an expanding mandrel for the upper OD and OA length to be finished and the flange brought to final thickness.





Next up will be to get the exhaust ports milled in then tackling those transfer ports.

As always, thanks for your comments and input Thm:

Regards for now - Ramon



PS - Dave (Steamer) just posted some pics on the Machine Mods page of the chuck dividing device


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## Ramon (Jun 19, 2012)

Hi again, heres a little more detail and a few more pics of finishing off these liners.

It was intended to do some of these milling ops on the mill but in the end the entire job was done on the lathe using the cross slide drilling/milling attachment.

Held on another 'recycled' expanding mandrel first up was to drill the four holes for the hold down bolts. 
Leaving the mandrel in situ the chuck was removed and, using a collet chuck, two small pegs were then turned that fitted in these holes with a nice slide fit. The heads of these pegs had identical diameters and would be used for setting up the liners between ops.

After the drilling was completed the chuck holding the mandrel was refitted ready for the milling. The milling attachment was set at 30 degrees and the transfer passages cut first using a 3mm FC3 cutter to plunge through then widening the slot by indexing the chuck one tooth at a time - three teeth each way - plunging through each time to create the slot. To mill the ridges that were left lowest back gear was then selected and the chuck rotated by turning the main pulley wheel by hand. There is a surprising amount of control doing this and little fear of the cutter overiding the gearing and pulling itself into the work. 






Both passages on each liner were done before the next op which meant re-aligning the liner to the bull wheel for indexing each time and this is where those pegs came in





After milling the passages and deburring the liners were set in the cases. The passage up from the case looked a bit restricted so it was decided to open this up a little - plunging and rotary milling by the same method





Finally with the attachment reset the exhaust holes were milled, again by adopting plunge cutting and rotary milling using backgear and the main pulley.





The finished liners are now ready for lapping ......





......... before tackling the pistons and contra pistons but these will get left until last of all - I always like to have a really good clean of the lathe after using cast iron so that may as well be at the end. 

It's back on the ali then - cylinder heads and conrods - but first I have some prepping to do - I'm off to see my friend Lee on Thursday and an opportunity to use his bead blaster ;D.

Regards for now - Ramon


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## mu38&Bg# (Jun 19, 2012)

I've been following along quitely. It looks excellent!

Is there a photo of that milling spindle for the lathe? That looks like a nice piece.

I'm cleaning up my shop to rearrange everything, so I don't have anything to talk about lately.

Greg


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## steamer (Jun 19, 2012)

Oh Ramon!
First flattery.  And now you tease us with that spindle!?

Bad boy!
 ;D

PICTURES PLEASE!


Dave


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## idahoan (Jun 19, 2012)

Impressive! 

I just don't know what else to say!

Dave


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## Don1966 (Jun 19, 2012)

Ramon I just can nor get enough of your threads. I enjoy it very much. You never stop amazing me on how much there is to learn in the craft and all of the steps you take to complete it. Thank you very much for your continued progress. :bow: :bow:

Don


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## tvoght (Jun 20, 2012)

Yes, that cross-slide spindle is a tease. Any chance we can see more?

--Tim


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## Ramon (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi guys, I've taken some pics for you tonight but first a little background. I began 'model engineering' in 1972 with my first lathe, an ML10. (Well actually there was a Unimat before that but little if anything was achieved on that) This was upgraded to an ML7 after a couple of years and around this time I was fortunate to meet a much missed but revered model engineer called Len Evans. Len was truly of the 'old school', serving a _seven_ year apprenticeship with Garrets of Leiston and a true master at the art of machining metal. I have a feeling I may have mentioned him before 

It was from him I learnt the benefit of the cross slide drilling/milling attachment. "Make yourself one of these as soon as you can - you'll soon ask yourself just how you ever got on without one" going on to describe the ease of milling keyways dead on centre line, drilling holes around pitch circles etc etc. He even used his to cut keyways to quarter the wheels on the locos he built.

Well it took awhile before I did but he was right, you don't realise just how useful and versatile this is until you have one.

So far I have made three, the first rather light one was based on the spindle in the Sparey book - The Amateurs Lathe. The second, much heavier, infact too heavy for comfort with the cross slide wound out, was replaced by the last version made. It's my own design - no I'm afraid there are no drawings : - and has a much better spindle running in a quill to enable drilling at an angle. It's powered by a 24volt lorry fan heater motor running on a fixed voltage of about 18volts which is more than powerful for light milling with a 6mm cutter if a little fast. So far it has done all that's been asked of it and the other two have been passed on to friends.

The spindle has back to back angular contact bearings at the front and a standard race at the back in which the shaft can float. The spindle taper is based on an R8 - straight shank with a simple taper and works very well. These first five pics show it in position for drilling toward the headstock - pic 5 has the spindle extended ........


























Moved through 90 degrees, set up is aided by two small dead stops that drop down depending which face is located toward the cross slide table










This boss can be bolted on to allow fitment to the topslide location to enable the attachment to be set at an angle










This leadscrew attachment for fine control when plunge milling was concieved in a hurry when milling the transfer ports in the ETA liners. It works well giving fine control. Return travel drive is by rubber band tension- really!





The three pieces of tooling, made from tool steel but unhardened. 6mm and 1/4" arbours and a 1/4" drill chuck





Details of the motor. Ideally this ought to be replaced with a small VFD set up but it's worked fine with this for this long - maybe when it burns out then ;D
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ID2uaiRqol4/T-H9awD_l0I/AAAAAAAAGd4/kZOqpiFc_Zw
/s800/DSCF0575.JPG


There you are guys, hope thats what you wanted, nothing done today on the engine but tomorrow should see a start on the cylinder heads if I don't spend too long over at my friend Lee's (not difficult at all once we get together )

Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Jun 20, 2012)

Oh now that is SWEEEEET Ramon!

Nothing more than it needs to be and everything you want!  Perfect!

Dave


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## Don1966 (Jun 20, 2012)

Wow! Ramon this is quiet some setup I love it. That is one useful attachment. Thanks

Don


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## arnoldb (Jun 21, 2012)

steamer  said:
			
		

> Oh now that is SWEEEEET Ramon!


 :bow: My sentiments exactly !

Kind regards, Arnold


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## ProdEng (Jun 21, 2012)

Lovely job, looks like a tool made by a toolmaker  A cross slide drill is on my job list but mine will be primitive in comparison.

Jan


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## Ramon (Jun 23, 2012)

Hi Guys, Hope those pics convey some of the versatility that that useful bit of kit has. Thoroughly recommended Thm: Thanks for the compliment too Jan but I lay no claim to being a 'Toolmaker'. Machinist? well maybe but 'toolmaker' most definitely not  

Managed to get on with those cylinder heads - heres a few more pics of the machining - basic turning and milling but the sequence may be of use/interest to someone.........

Began by roughing them out to plus 1mm all round, likewise the bores





Next op was to finish the bores - using a liner as a plug gauge - turning the rebate to finish size - and carefully centreing and drilling through 4.8 mm (large enough to get a 2BA allen key through required for the next op on yet another expanding mandrel))





I went about drilling for the cylinder bolts differently to previous engines. On the Racers and Eta's the fins were cut first but on the Etas particularly the drill wandered very slightly. This was put down to the requirement of the drill to re-centre itself on each fin as it passed through even though the preceding fin was acting as a guide so this time the holes were put in first. Relatively speaking, these are 'deep holes' so they were drilled 3mm first with the drill pushed right back in the chuck to begin with to gain minimum deflection. The holes were drilled as deep as that would allow before extending the drill and drilling right through. They were then opened up with a 3.4 to give clearance on 5BA.





Despite the long hole to diameter ratio by not allowing the drill to crowd with swarf and keeping the pecks small no significant deflection occurred. 





As the bolts are not yet made the head could not be tried on the case to check but by using the liner as a guide which had previously been checked on the case dropping four 5BA bolts in confirmed everything was fine





Next up was to mill around the base to leave the 'pedestals'......





...before transfering back to the expanding mandrel for shaping the profile......





.... and cutting the fins. Once again the tool bit was ground up from a discarded FC3 6mm cutter shank to the width required (2.0mm) which performed admirably. The spacing was set by moving the dead stop each time then interspersing a 3.2 slip - 2mm gap, 1.2mm fin thickness. Depth of cut at the deepest was 8.3 mm





Finally the hole for the comp screw was trued using a 5mm FC3 cutter, drilled 5.3 and tapped 1/4 BSF then the bolt holes spot-faced to finish them off





I must admit I had thought that the interupted cuts on cutting the fins caused by the bolt holes being there might create a problem but the cutter just sailed through. This way also had an unexpected bonus too in that there were no drill burrs on each fin to clean up as was the case previously, the burrs left on the sides of the bolt holes in the fin gaps literally flicked off with the end of a needle file. I will certainly use this sequence in the future.


Well there we go, a slightly new and beneficial process to me - hope thats of use to someone. The cases have been bead blasted and have come up really well but you'll have to wait for final assembly for seeing them - minimal handling until assembly from now on. Next up I think, will be the con-rods

Regards for now - Ramon


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## ShedBoy (Jun 23, 2012)

Beautiful work as always Ramon. Are you going to stick to original colour when anodizing? I am looking forward to seeing how you do it. 

Brock


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## steamer (Jun 23, 2012)

Feel free to tell use about how you get that surface finish!......


PLEASE! ;D

Dave


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## Ramon (Jun 24, 2012)

Despite what it may look like Dave - other than looking for a reasonable finish from the tool as it's cutting it's not particularly strived for and certainly not 'worked at' to achieve.

I have no means to grind tools other than an off-hand grinder so that's how they are formed. Usually it's with a reluctance to stop and create a decent tool that whatever's there gets pressed into service. I confess that I'm quite lazy when it comes to grinding new tools, on some shots I'm quite surprised that no one picks up on the apparent poor quality of the tool bit in use  That said it is only the very tip that does the work and for most of the time, and certainly on these engine parts - steel as well as ali - these two tools got quite a bit of time in. Despite exhibiting all the wrong rake angles for these differing materials they do work rather well.




Although there are many other bits of hacked about HSS lying around these two seem to have acquired a 'favourite' status. (Ignore the 'wart', it was still there from stopping the cylinders rolling about)

The tapers on these cylinders were cut using the round nosed tapered tool, the last, very fine, cut carried out on the 'back stroke'. The radius was applied by three chamfered faces and faired using the same tool as on the spinners then a very light application of 400 grit wet and dry using paraffin as a lube to finish them off - that's all, nothing else - then, after the fins were cut and very lightly chamfered, a piece of Garryflex block was held lightly on each fin.

Brock, I don't know if I can match the original colour as per the images I have but it will certainly be red - as things are going I guess that will be in about a fortnight.

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jun 26, 2012)

Hi there guy's - had a real good day in the shop today- two con-rods, two comp screws and a start on the cylinder head bolts - not much left to do now ;D

Prior to doing the Eta engines I had always fought shy of turned con -rods because of the perceived difficulty of dealing with the 'second' ball end. In fact when drawing the Etas the rods were done as rectangular section. However the S&J version _had_ to have a turned one and the following method evolved :idea: It proved so successful the two blanks for the other two Etas were discarded and they then had the 'correct' turned rods too.

A few more pics then ......

The material used for the rods is HE15 aluminium. This is the first time I have used this and found it easy to machine producing a good finish. Going by the 'feel of things' it's not as tough as the Alumec 89 used previously for these parts but it's a recommended grade for con rods so I'm fairly certain it will handle the task.

Apart from drilling the oil hole the rods were made entirely on the lathe, the holes for the big and small ends drilled and reamed using the milling attachment, the big end toward the tailstock. I have convinced myself today that a VFD motor would definitely be an improvement - the unit is too fast for reaming so that has to be done by turning the spindle by the draw bar knurled wheel with one hand and turning the cross slide at the same time with the other. Bit like patting your head and rubbing your tum but it works.





The bar was then reduced - that tool again, cutting on the 'back stroke'





A couple of radius tools were milled from gauge plate (GFS) and hardened but not tempered. I find setting this equal about the hole is easily done by marking up and getting the land each side equal before plunging the tool in. 





The OD of the rod was turned .2mm up so as that ink fades in the centre of the radius there's just .1mm left. Once it fades the inward movement stops leaving the tool to take the spring out of the cut which just about takes care of that .1mm





Next is to turn the shaft taper and flare in to the big end leaving sufficient for shaping the little end on the next op. If doing more than one it pays to make a note of the settings.





A quick whizz with some 400 grit wet and dry, paraffin and oil and a piece of Garryflex and its ready to part off.





Next up was to take a short (about 18mm) length of 1/2" ali and face each end. The con rod was measured across the shank about 18mm up from the big end and a drill of this size was run through. It was then bored at the same taper as the rods so that the taper ran out as it reached the far end. Quickly smoothed with some 400 on a stick it was then cut in half and deburred.





The rod can now be held in the collet chuck with sufficient grip to radius the small end





A couple of drawn Phosphor Bronze bushes were turned for the big ends. Reamed 6mm, the OD's are .02mm up such that once pressed home the bore requires slight lapping to achieve a precise fit on the crank pin





Finished save one small op and two more radius tools. Despite all those made for the Waller and Etas engine not one of the radii required :





That last op then was to drill the oil hole in the big end. Held in place on a small bush by hand, the angle determined by resting on the vise jaw.






Well that's another couple of parts finished. Once the head bolts are done the spray bars and needle valves will get tackled next to get the brass out of the way before finally lapping the liner and making the pistons. Not long to go now at all 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Don1966 (Jun 26, 2012)

Ramon as always great work and photos. I am still following you here with great interest. Your work defies words. 

Don


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## ProdEng (Jun 26, 2012)

I keep seeing that marker pen in use and it has rubbed off, I have started doing the same. Having a witness of where you are cutting or filing is priceless, thanks again Ramon.

Jan


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## rhitee93 (Jun 27, 2012)

Ramon, as the kids on this side of the pond would say, "You da man!" I learn a lot from your posts. Thanks! Thm:


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## Ramon (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi Guys thanks for your kind comments - it's very pleasing to hear that what's posted is of use to someone. It certainly makes the time posting takes up all the more worthwhile.

Not much to report, progress today was a bit like being back at work - sixteen 5BA bolts/screws for the heads and front plates turned from 6mm En1a. Not exactly scintillating and nothing grand on the scale of such things but it's been quite while since anything remotely repetitive was done.

I did however get a slight distraction from that  

Some pics of an Eta running are required 'for something else' so it didn't take much persuasion to get the test stand out.......





.......and fire it up woohoo1





With a good exhaust prime and one choke turn it fired on the third flick and was away;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 
Oh' "Don't ya just love the smell of fresh diesel fuel in the morning"

Needle valve assemblies next - back soon

Regards - Ramon


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## seagar (Jun 27, 2012)

Oh yes,I know and remember that smell as a pit man in my racing days.W0W that ETA is beautifull.
Iam enjoying this build more than any other I have followed.Most of my team racing was done with ETA & Super Tigre,so this adds to my interest. Thanks for sharing your skills with us . :bow: :bow: :bow:

Regards ,Ian (seagar).


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## capin (Jun 27, 2012)

Beautiful, simply a work of metal art. I am always amazed at how much I learn from these post and perfect pictures. You are truly in a class with very few Ramon. I check a couple times a day just to see if you have any updates. Please continue thanks, Brian


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## Dinkum (Jun 28, 2012)

Wonderful! Well done! This has been a very interesting build to watch. 

Regards,
Dinkum


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## steamer (Jun 28, 2012)

Nice looking engine Ramon! Did you build the Eta also?

Dave


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## metalmad (Jun 28, 2012)

love your work Mate :bow:
Pete


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## Jasonb (Jun 28, 2012)

Would that "something else" be a build article on the ETA to go into ME?

Keep the posts comming they are handy for my Firefly build 

J


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## rklopp (Jun 28, 2012)

That photo is staged, just like the moon landing. How come the white background isn't all stained with semi-toasted castor oil?


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## Ramon (Jun 28, 2012)

Well I don't think I've had the pleasure of being accused of falsifying something before  

Sorry to disappoint you RK but theres nothing staged at all. Its just outside the workshop, piece of floor covering over a very tatty old table and a pristine piece of white faced hardboard set behind. I usually use an equally tatty piece of 1/8 ply which _is_ totally oil stained as well as pockmarked with welding burns - not ideal for a backdrop for a decent photo as I'm sure you'd agree . Can't comment on the moon landing though.

Might be Jason but then again...  - the Firefly is looking good BTW

Dave - you must have missed this http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=16281.msg165815#msg165815

I was hoping to put a bit up tonight but things have conspired today and it's Para night tonight so back tomorrow 

Pete, thanks for the PM - will respond later.

Regards for now Ramon


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## Ramon (Jun 29, 2012)

Hi Guys, Despite a lengthy interlude today when my friend Lee came over I managed to finish the needle valve assemblies and get a start on the pistons. 

Courtesy of Lee I now have a lovely set of filing drawers to fit into the wall unit in which to centralise all bits 'engine' - previously most are frequently 'unfindable' having placed them 'somewhere safe' where they'll easily be found :) Does anyone else suffer from this infuriating malaise???

The NVA's are basic turnings in brass, usually made from hex bar though this time they were made from round and had the hex milled on to obtain a more consistent finish. One thing that may be of interest having seen in the past some pretty esoteric ways of achieving one is making the needle itself.

I prefer to use pianowire - depending on the type of valve either 18swg -.048" usually loctited into a piece of 8BA threaded rod which is clamped by a closing nut on a split taper or 16swg - .063" for the more traditonal type as on this engine. 

Piano wire is pretty tough so the initial shaping is done on the side of a grinding wheel. To keep good control a piece about 150-200mm long is held at an acute angle and rotated between the fingers using both hands to try to ensure no dwell spots. (Theres only one in the pic - the other has the camera) Ink helps here to keep an eye on any eccentricity which, though not super critical, is more important to keep an eye on than the actual taper. Having buggered this one up one-handed it was ground off and started over 






Any slight eccentricity can more or less be removed by filing using a wood support block. The block is set so that the needle is _just_ below the top face. The lathe is run up and the block advanced to support the needle. It can now be smoothed, elongated and finished off using a needle file - preferably an old one as files don't take too kindly to piano wire. The wood wants to be fairly hard to support the needle against the filing pressure.






Once happy that it is running as true as possible - if it's not it can make turning in the spray bar difficult - it needs to be set in the needle housing. One of the problems with using piano wire is that there is no drill size that's a good match which can make for a wobbly needle if drilled over size. A way around this is to grind a piece of the wire at an acute but flat angle and use it as a reamer, a task which it does very well providing the swarf is removed frequently - if it isn't it soon crowds and gets stuck - yes you guessed :










After reaming, the hole is deeply centred for a solder 'pocket' and its ready to fit 





The needle was pushed home and some fuel tubing connected so that it could be tested for sealing by blowing. 
The housing was screwed all the way home and then backed off 1 -11/2 turns then the wire soldered letting the solder build in the pocket. By _not_ fluxing the needle before but only after assembly minimises the likelyhood of the solder running through and soldering the housing to the spraybar - and yes you would be right about that too ;D





After cutting to length the ends are radiused on the off-hand grinder before bending - it's much easier than after 





And there they are done - a simple part but one that needs care in manufacture more than 'high tolerance' if it is to function efficiently.





It's the last 'knockings' now, pistons are turned and milled up to finishing the OD but first comes the wrist pins - isn't that a much better phrase than 'gugeon pin' - and getting them fitted before lapping the liners and finally the pistons. Sues off to a girly thing so tomorrow could be a long day ;D

Regards - Ramon


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## LADmachining (Jun 29, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> It's the last 'knockings' now, pistons are turned and milled up to finishing the OD but first comes the wrist pins - isn't that a much better phrase than 'gugeon pin' - and getting them fitted before lapping the liners and finally the pistons. Sues off to a girly thing so tomorrow could be a long day ;D
> 
> Regards - Ramon



So they'll be running by Sunday then? 

Here's hoping!


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## Ramon (Jun 29, 2012)

Hi Anthony, not quite, at least not till the anodising's done but should be early next week if the lapping goes to plan 

Regards - Ramon


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## rhitee93 (Jun 29, 2012)

This whole build has been impressive so I almost hate to comment on something so simple, but the wood block trick is one I will have to file away for later. (No pun intended)

Thanks for all the effort you put into sharing your builds!


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## Don1966 (Jun 29, 2012)

Hi, Ramon still here enjoying your progress and still great quality as usual. I taught I was the only one who had a safe spot to put stuff and can't remember where the safe spot is when I want things.

Don


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## steamer (Jun 30, 2012)

Hey Ramon,

NOW I remember....was having a senior moment there.  NICE

And I have absolutely no doubt as to the validity of the photo!........

Can't wait for the little beasty's first fire.

Dave


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## ShedBoy (Jun 30, 2012)

Why the split nut for holding the needle? Is it so it can be squished a bit so it doesn't vibrate out?

Brock


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## Ramon (Jun 30, 2012)

Hi Brock, congrats on getting your engine running Thm:. 

Re the needle yes that's what the split is for though its not a very efficient way of restricting a needle from turning as with time it wears and loosens. Seen some pretty manked up NV's over time where they've been squeezed with pliers to get that last little bit of nip. This is true to the original though so really needed to be used. When flying I much preferred to fit the threaded needle type like the later Super Tigre engines had - very fine control and adjustable friction using the clamp nut.

I just knew I wouldn't be alone in 'losing' things Don, I really am bad for it. Also suffer from 'Bench Blindness' - apt description that - someone aluded to it on the ME forum sometime back. I spend countless time looking for things that are right in front of me - the classic is the spanner for the lathe toolholders, that's always 'gone' 

'rhi' - That small piece of wood has proved so useful, not just on needles. It's a great aid to filing tapers on flimsy rods too - note the long 45 groove.

Hopefully it won't be too long now Dave, today saw some further progress but not as much as I'd hoped......

First off I turned the piston blanks and drilled and reamed them for the wrist pins. Did this in the mill to ensure squareness. The blanks were left .5mm up on diameter and 1mm longer on the top end. The inside diameter of the skirt was made identical for locating on a turning fixture similar to the spinner





They were then held in the chuck on the rotary table to mill the insides. The wrist pins were turned from silver steel and honed to a tight push fit in the piston blanks and these were then set aside until the bores are lapped
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-teq1eaoN2dU/T-9isDTEzLI/AAAAAAAAGjM/RPe3GpNkf4c
/s800/DSCF0746.JPG

I mentioned before that I had always used one type, that is, style of lap other than that single ali one and these are some made over the years..




The first was the second from the right done for the bores in a Quorn. I'm not sure where the design came from but I think it was Len Mason. At the working end they consist of a 'D bit' like section to which is silver soldered a ring of (preferably) copper. The ring is expanded by inserting the remaining piece from when the 'd' section is cut(by hacksaw) and a screw that bears on this from the fixed side. They are not that complicated to make but do take longer than most and certainly longer than the ali type used on the crank cases. They are however _very_ easy to adjust and work _extremely_ well.
This should give a better idea of the make up





Far quicker to make was another ali one - this one is 18.3mm dia..




.. but despite what was thought were fairly deep grooves to lessen the expansion forces it proved very difficult to expand with a 4BA caphead and allen key. It did work well as a lap though so deeper, perhaps wider grooves are required to make things a lot easier. Personally - I think it's worth the effort to make the other type - far more control during lapping but that said this type does have merits so perhaps a bit more perseverence first.

Re lapping, this is not to teach granny etc but for the beginner this can be a frought moment. It's not a difficult process however and providing the finish is good to begin with is a reasonably quick one to carry out. For those with an interest then this is how I went about it.

As these liners are unhardened metal the compound used was silicon carbide mixed with thin oil. Diamond paste, although available, is not because of it's tendency to embed itself into soft metal. Difficult to remove unless cleaned in an ultra sonic cleaner the risk that the piston or liner could actually end up acting as a high speed lap on initial runs is not worth taking - Silicon works fast, cuts quickly and is easily cleaned. Originally I used petrol but by using three jars containing a small amount of cellulose gun cleaner the part is squeaky clean after a visit to each jar. When the first jar gets too contaminated it's decanted into another for settling and recycling , the jar cleaned and topped up to now become the 'third' jar. Smelly but efficient  





To save going back in the thread the liners before lapping looked like this..





The lap is lightly smeared with compound and the liner slid on and worked about to spread it around. Lubricated with paraffin and oil the lathe was run about 300 rpm and and after about ten minutes with 320 grit they looked like this..




The one on the right still exhibits the traces of turning so was put back up for another session before cleaning thoroughly - including the lap - before recharging with 600 grit





Another 5mins or so with the 600 produced an overall even, silky smooth finish suitable for accepting the piston once finished (the piston will be lapped to the bore)









A bit more about the lap - at this stage it could not be pushed up the taper by the 4BA screw, the 'tee handled' allen wrench twisting alarmingly. Changing to an ordinary long series key fared no better.




The split has opened considerably showing a degree of expansion but not the amount available with the other type. No doubt about it though they are quick to make, but need a thin wall to make expansion much easier - a re-think required then scratch.gif

Sue has ideas about the garden tomorrow    : but then again it might rain ;D - whatever, I'll get on to the pistons as soon as some devious contriving will allow 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## billmac (Jul 1, 2012)

Ramon -

Can I ask for a bit more information about your D bit style lap? I'm not getting a clear picture of how it works. As I understand it, you start by cutting a D bit shape, so about half of the diameter of the main lap shaft is cut away. So far so good, but then I think you say that you solder the copper ring to the end of the shaft. This means (I think) that only half the ring is actually attached by solder, the rest is unsupported at this stage. Then you re-introduce the part cut out and force this out with a screw in the solid side to give you adjustment. Doesn't this result in a rather distorted, non circular lap? I appreciate that it will become circular again with use, so perhaps this doesn't matter but I'm not sure I am understanding the principles correctly.


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## Ramon (Jul 1, 2012)

Hi Bill - sure thing. I see I missed a bit out : and haven't made the soldering part clear either. I also forgot to mention it is turned before use : :. 

You have the basics but I just remembered doing some pics for a similar question on the ME forum when describing the Etas - perhaps they're worth repeating here as they show it in much better detail.

These are the only parts save the screw - if the lap is bigger than 1/2" diameter so far they have had the 'head' silver soldered to a 1/2" max dia shaft. The copper, cut from 10swg sheet is rolled (actually beaten around a suitable size form) to form a tube such that it it leaves sufficient material that it can be turned to size after soldering.










It's then carefully, and with minimal solder, soldered along its _leading_ edge ( It will quickly unwrap on turning if it's the otherway round)





The insert is inserted and the screw tightened to just hold it in place then the OD is turned to about .025mm below the bore. Very sharp tool required and light cuts.





And its ready to use...




This lap did these three liners for the Eta's. Within the usual basic measuring kit I have no discernable out of roundness has ever been found despite the fact that the lap does not open completely evenly. This lap here certainly did more work than any of the others apart from the one used for the Bentley liners. By the time it had done all three the copper was slightly worn toward one side but still perfectly circular - to micrometer readings.
Unlike the ali lap it cannot be expanded when full in the bore unless there is an opening eg and exhaust port but I have never found this to present a problem, just bring the lap out sufficient to expose the screw, tighten slightly, then carry on

As mentioned before I'm not actually sure whose design it was but it was someone well known for their engine building. I made the first one to size the bores in the feet of a Quorn T&C and it worked so well I've stuck with it until now.

Hope the above clarifies it a little better if not just come back

Regards - Ramon


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## bearcar1 (Jul 1, 2012)

Well, I've just been 'converted' from using hardwood dowels for laps. Your approach seems a slight bit of work but I really do like the final results. Well done and thank-you for showing this method and procedure.


BC1
Jim


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## Don1966 (Jul 1, 2012)

You have convinced me it looks so easy to make. Thanks Ramon for the detailed explanation. From what I have seen of the final bore of your cylinders it work very well.

Don


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## billmac (Jul 1, 2012)

Thanks Ramon, I understand it now, and can see how it would be useful. I will be making some of these.


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## Ramon (Jul 2, 2012)

Hi Guys - glad to see that that was of use to you  I would just add that by being able to turn either type to the size required and with a good finish gives a good start to the process.

Well the pistons have now been machined and successfully lapped to the liners. Always a tense period as there is so little material between a good fit and a start over fit. These ones have come out well I'm pleased to tell.

I took lots of pics of this op which I hope will help explain it better than describe - the technique is not mine but once again that of my all time engine hero 'George Aldrich'. As usual, this is not for teaching Granny but for those who may feel a little trepidation in tackling it. 
If it's borne in mind that it's an operation that cannot be rushed, a slow, gently as it goes, approach will bring best results. It's not difficult just time consuming. It is easy however to go beyond the 'break point' if you go at it too enthusiastically.

Lets step back a bit first. When lapping the liner, once the surface is uniform and even all through, the lap should be allowed to dwell at a point below the exhaust line. This area has no effect on compression and can be a couple of tenths larger to an advantage for lapping the piston to the bore. This is not measured - just done by feel. While on this matter it is often recommended that a taper be induced in the bore - indeed something GA was an advocate of and something that will improve performance in a high performing engine but for an engine such as this no attempt was made as it's really not worth the extra time.

So with the liners finished and cleaned it was time to finish the pistons. The piston blanks need turning on the OD's and facing to length so a fixture is required. This one has seen several pistons, each time turning the shoulder back for the piston skirt to register on.





Unfortunately it was not long enough to accomodate the hone movement so a new one was made. It is back drilled clear on the screw so that should the piston prove difficult to release then the rod can be screwed out from the back end.





An undersize (4.7mm in a 5mm hole) brass pin is inserted through the piston and the screwed rod then the piston screwed up tight. By using an undersize pin no influence is placed on the piston save via the register. Once on the piston OD and the slightly coned top face was turned





Setting the Myford top slide over at such acute angles means the normal handle fouls the cross slide bracket. Using a 2BA screw and ball driver gets over this at a stroke





The piston after turning and honing. Doesn't look that good in this pic but it was very smooth. 





It should be honed (or lapped) so that - after cleaning - it will just fit into the bore about a third





If no hone is available then an easily made piston lap will do- this was the one used on the Eta engines





Both piston and liner are scrupuously cleaned before the next stage. A tee handled driver is required and another brass pin, this time one that fits the piston and a very small amount of 1000 lapping compound.





The piston is attached to the handle and it's ready to go - a very small dab of compound is smeared just inside the bore and a very thin smear over the piston then some thin oil applied. The amount of compound is very tiny too much and the piston will jam.





Holding the liner tightly the piston is inserted slowly then with a wringing _rotary_ back and forth twisting motion the piston is slowly lapped to the lower bore. It soon begins to dry - a good indicator is it squeaking - this is a little out of focus but you can see the dry band at the top of the piston. No further compound is applied at this point- just plenty of oil and continue the wringing action. 






Once the piston is in just over half it's length remove, clean thoroughly and oil up then try. It's surprising how much 'space' the compound has taken up and this will give an indication of how to proceed. This is done a couple of more times - slowly is the key....















Until the piston is in the bore it's full length or up to the exhaust port





Remove it and _wipe _both parts clean (this will leave traces of compound)- the bottom of the bore should look shiny





Oil both parts liberally - there should be no need for further compound - and slowly repeat the procedure until the piston will suddenly ease through the bore with a degree of restriction. It only needs go as far as where the contra piston will sit. Once this happens the piston is removed and and both parts thoroughly cleaned of all traces of compound. Then oiled and re assembled - just working with oil at this stage is sufficient to 'work' any tiny restriction that may be felt






Well that's it for tonight - that's a long post so I hope it's not too long winded. Two last parts to make tomorrow - I had forgotten about the contra pistons : then it's the anodising. Oooh it's getting close 


Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Jul 2, 2012)

Excellent write up Ramon!  :bow:

Nice treatise on lapping!

Dave


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## SBWHART (Jul 3, 2012)

Very very interesting Ramon.

lapping is something I've always tried to avoid hence i only build steam engines, this has given me a master class on how to.

Stew


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## Ramon (Jul 3, 2012)

Morning Guys

I should point out Stew that this is not the kind of fit I'd be looking for on a steam engine - that would have to be much better :big: :big: 

Model diesels by their very nature rely on good compression to perform well not to mention start well. Given the basic kit at my disposal so far this technique has worked well either on those built from scratch or refurbing/rebuilding worn engines to achieve a good piston/liner fit. So far I've used it with good results down to 1.5cc but yesterday as I was 'twisting away' I couldn't help but think how difficult it must be in those smaller size engines like the Nano's RK built. No doubt about it, '5cc' is a nice size - for me 


Regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi guys, pleased to tell - it's been a good day  for that old cliche that you can learn something most days is not to be dismissed lightly and today was certainly a good one for it to ring true.

Began by making those contra pistons. These can be tricky little things to make not just in getting the right fit but in holding them to do so. Several methods of holding them, most fairly inadequate, have been tried in the past but when I did the 'Racers' though it might have been the Etas I think it dawned that maybe using an expanding mandrel 'in reverse' - removing the screw and allowing it's natural spring to grip the cavity in the top of the CP - might work. On trying it quickly became apparent that as long as there was a good .05mm interference with a slight tapered lead in the grip was sufficient to turn the outer faces and subsequently hone it to fit. It occurred today that if one mandrel was kept purposefully for this and all rear recceses were initally turned to fit they could be opened out later if desired.

This old mandrel was pressed into service, I think it's what I used previously - 12.7mm OD. The CP was bored 12.65 and was then turned and the concave face cut without any slipping problems











It was felt that the new honing tool was much too wide to be able to use effeciently so I reverted to the old method of using two flat fine india stones - using lots of paraffin and oil as a lubricant this actually works extremely well but control of size is difficult as it's entirely down to feel, judgement of time and constant stopping to clean and check. The first one went fine, three 'goes' and checks and the CP fitted just right - a nice push fit using the drill as a press.




The second however pushed easilly straight through the bore  
This is not neccessarilly the 'make it again' set back it might at first seem as it is possible to 'grow' cast iron with the application of some heat. Forgive me for refering to him again but good old George in one of his many articles in a US magazine - Model Airplane News I think - described heating a worn cast piston to red heat and - I always _thought_ it said - allowing it to cool. This does indeed work, the average 2.5cc piston growing perhaps 0.02- 0.03mm sufficient for re lapping. Several old diesels and one or two glows have certainly been given a new life using this method over the years. So the CP was duly heated and before I realised what I was doing had picked it up with the tongs and dropped it in the oil instead of letting it cool. Surprise of the day was finding upon measuring that it had grown a whole .06mm - 18.30 initially to 18.36mm. Up the loft and a rummage through the old control line folders and there it was - heat to cherry red and _quench in oil_  - after all this time in letting it cool : 06 is a big difference to .02/3 and a much bigger help if the need is there

The CP, now hard took much more stoning but this time the fit was there and finally there was a set of parts .....





..well two actually but one set now looks like this ;D 





Having previously got the drum valve to nice running fit quite some time was spent getting the drum valve to run freely as it had distorted slightly in the heat treatment. Having given the case a thorough clean in cellulose the shaft showed constant signs of abrasion. Stoning the distortion gradually improved the fit but it still seemed gritty. Then the penny dropped. The bead blasted surface was still retaining grit - just enough to come off on the hands and find its way to effect the fit of the drum valve. A quick blitz in the Ultra Sonic sorted this out and the shaft fitted without further problems. The rest of the engine went together okay, the only slight bit of fettling was on the outer diameter of the conrod which was _just_ touching the inner surface but, it has to be acknowledged, the compression seal did not seem great, certainly not what was hoped for  
Finally though, apart from the needle valve it was together at 6pm when with fuel can in my hand ready to try it Sue put her head round the door - "I'm just about to dish up" - ahh perfect timing :

So a little later it was strapped in the stand still minus needle valve and some fuel squirted through the ports, the compression screw had to be screwed in a surprising amount when suddenly it fired on the prime  needle valve immediately fitted and it was off on it's first run ;D ;D




The revs were kept well down but it has a gorgeous, deep, throaty, 'diesel pop' to it. It is assembled without gaskets but I think that there should be at least a paper one between liner and crankcase. It vibrates a little, that may be down to the low rpm or the mass of material in piston and crankshaft - scaling effect I'm afraid but it's early days that might diminish on a change of prop.

I shall now get the anodising done before assembling the second one so I guess for a 'Work in Progress' that's the end of the line. I confess I'm a mite tired 

I'll come back with some more pics when they're finished completely.

Thanks for your comments along the way - all of them much appreciated

Regards for now - Ramon


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## rklopp (Jul 3, 2012)

Nice writeup, Ramon. I have never tried lapping the piston using the bore or vice versa. What I've typically done is finish the piston together with the contra as a solid rod with some extra length. The extra length helps with measuring and removing any taper. I polish the diameter in with 600- and 1200-grit paper backed up by an old flexible scale. I trim off the extra length, which gets rid of any barreling, and then part off and finish the piston insides, holding it in a soft collet. 

Next, I lap the cylinder to fit the piston using the method you described, although I use diamond paste in oil. I have used both homemade aluminum and commercial brass split laps. The latter are so cheap it is hardly worth messing with making a lap. I use a cheapie Asian ultrasonic cleaner with detergent to clean the cylinder before testing the piston fit.

For the nano cylinders, I lapped using 3 micron diamond until I had practically a mirror finish. I don't see much use in trying for "plateau honing" on a 5.5-mm bore. I figure it's best to scale the scratches with the scale of the engine. For the bigger Mill 1.3 engines, I left some of the scratches from the coarser grit lap after lapping some with the 3-micron paste. The hope was to achieve a plateau honed finish. It seems to have worked, because the Mills engines run beautifully and seem to be retaining compression well.


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## Don1966 (Jul 3, 2012)

Ramon thanks a bunch for the lapping lesson and how to make laps. I really enjoyed it and learn a lot more then I knew about lapping. Will you be showing us how you anodize the engine? That is one thing I would like to learn how to do also.

Don


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## metalmad (Jul 3, 2012)

you make it look so easy Ramon :bow:
looking forward to the video.
Pete


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## ShedBoy (Jul 3, 2012)

:bow: :bow: :bow: Wonderful stuff Ramon

Brock


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## kutzdibutz (Jul 4, 2012)

Absolutely amazing work that is! :bow:

And th_wwp - ah, no, it should read 'We want Vi-de-o!'

Cheers, Karsten


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## Runner (Jul 4, 2012)

Ramon, fantastic workmanship, fantastic pictures and write-ups and all done at a pace that beggars belief, no wonder your a mite tired.

Dare I ask since the spinner wasn't fitted, were you able to start the diesel with a flip of the finger on the prop?

Congratulations on a job very well done :bow: :bow:

Brian


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## steamer (Jul 4, 2012)

Oh Ramon....what will I do with you....That's not a proper test stand!

It needs more instrumentation!  Tell ya what, just because I'm a buddy, send that beaut over here to me and I'll do a proper battery of tests and submit a report....should only take 3 or 4 years to complete....

....... ;D


That's awesome Ramon, and I want to thank you for your excellent write ups!  Lapping is another one of those very simple yet extremely powerful tools, and your write up is the best I've seen!

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

Dave


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## Ramon (Jul 4, 2012)

Hi guys, thanks for the response, nice to hear from you.

Thanks for the insight into your methods 'RK'. I particularly like the sound of doing the piston and contra piston in one hanging though does this not mean you have to leave the top of the liner tighter to get the interference fit required for the CP. Having said that if it's cast then it could be 'grown'. You've also made me think about the kind of 'finish' inside the bore using the technique I described. Though very smooth and as round as I can measure it's not honed. I think on my next engine I will lap the liner first as described then hone it with a cylinder hone to get some decent 'scratches' in the surface before lapping the piston in. BTW have you had any luck with getting those Nano's running yet?

Don, I did the anodising today which went well. I hope you won't mind but I don't really want to go into the process at this stage. I have an article which is due to be published fairly soon in ME describing my attempts so don't feel it would be fair to pre-empt it. Hope you understand. However I did post on here in reply to somones questions on it sometime ago - just the basics but enough to get the idea. Perhaps a search will bring it up

It's not a difficult process and it's certainly worth pursuing..... 





Just remember to wear gloves when dyeing 





Well I think that really is it on this thread. Dave, Brian and all the others - I appreciate you taking the time to send thanks and respond. As the Waller engine thread and now this developed so the need to remember to take photos at all stages became a requirement more than just a personal record of some of the ops. You've seen just over 200 on this - there were well over 600 taken and the time to sit and go through them as well as post takes a fair bit of time - usually at the end of the day, much to my long suffering wifes mock disdain. Her usual phrase - happened about ten minutes ago - "Bathroom's free" tells me it's gonna be another late one. 

The engines are now both assembled, tomorrow I'll take some pics and put them in 'Finished Projects' which I guess is where they should be.

Hope you've all enjoyed the journey - thanks again

Ramon


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## Don1966 (Jul 4, 2012)

No Ramon, thank you for you generous and unselfish journey and posting your teaching for us. I am sure you have inspired many a forum fan here. I do understand about not getting started on anodizing no apology needed here. I will be looking in the finished section for your final video.

Best regards Don


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## dsquire (Jul 4, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> Hi guys, thanks for the response, nice to hear from you.
> .
> .
> .
> ...



We totally understand seeing as it is going to be published. Please let us know when it is published.



> Well I think that really is it on this thread. Dave, Brian and all the others - I appreciate you taking the time to send thanks and respond. As the Waller engine thread and now this developed so the need to remember to take photos at all stages became a requirement more than just a personal record of some of the ops. You've seen just over 200 on this - there were well over 600 taken and the time to sit and go through them as well as post takes a fair bit of time - usually at the end of the day, much to my long suffering wifes mock disdain. Her usual phrase - happened about ten minutes ago - "Bathroom's free" tells me it's gonna be another late one.



I realize that it is a lot of work with the photo's and the writing and then having to organize it all so that it makes sense to someone that may not understand the process. I think that you have made a top rated job of it. I think that you deserve the gold. 





> The engines are now both assembled, tomorrow I'll take some pics and put them in 'Finished Projects' which I guess is where they should be.



I'll be watching for them Ramon



> Hope you've all enjoyed the journey - thanks again
> 
> Ramon



I know that I have enjoyed watching this come together and look forward to your next project whenever and whatever it might be.

Cheers 

Don


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## Ogaryd (Jul 4, 2012)

Hi Ramon,

   Just wanted to thank you for your time and energy posting this build. I've learned so much.

   All I can say about your engine is WOW.           :bow:

                                                          Gary


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## vcutajar (Jul 5, 2012)

Thank you Ramon for the very detailed descriptions and photos.

Vince


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## Jasonb (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks for another very informative build diary Ramon, its certainly going to come in handy on the firefly. 

Can I ask where you get the 1000g lapping compound, I can source upto 600g quite easily but searches have so far drawn a blank on teh finer stuff or could a metal polish be used for the final lapping of piston to liner? I suspect the answer will be that you have had that little jar for years 

Jason

PS Whats next


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## Ramon (Jul 5, 2012)

Hi Guys - thanks as ever for all your kind comments, it's certainly nice to hear that the time spent is appreciated.

Thanks for understanding re the article - I don't know exactly when but it should not be too long. 

Jason , I don't know a source these days, just as you suspect I have had mine for many years However ;D I also have some powder, more than enough to let you have some so send me a PM when you have a mo

Brian, (Runner) my apologies but I overlooked your question last night. The engine(s) were both started by a good old traditional flick. I would like to say I don't possess such a thing as a starter but that wouldn't be quite true - I bought one at a swapmeet last year for the boat - still haven't used it though. Personally I visualise the potential of doing so much damage with one that I much prefer the 'digital' method .


Drawings - ah the drawings. Some may have noticed I have not given much mention to them. Well after being so certain in the first instance that they were suitable for the download section I simply could not believe the discrepancies, errors and misssing information that they exhibited :-[. The Racers and the Etas were made from pencil drawings and whilst there was obviously the odd thing here or there there was nothing of the magnitude of these :-[ :-[. Talking about this with Sue - my embarrassment that is - she pointed out that they were done after I came out of hospital - hmmm maybe the anaesthetic played apart then. Well whatever, that's not an excuse but possibly a reason. I have though, as the anomalies presented themselves updated the drawings to 'as built'. I won't upload them now but should anyone want a copy I could easily send them the PDF files if they PM me.

Today was spent tidying up and taking it easy. I did run the second engine tonight - which performed as well as the first. Though there doesn't seem to be any leakage I still think a paper gasket needs fitting 'tween liner and case. Not possible today as my circle cutter has been put away somewhere safe and totally unaccessible - rather I can't bloody find it  so it will have to wait until the weekend shopping trip to buy another when of couse after which I will :.

I'll put some final pics of the finished engines over on the other thread.

Regards - Ramon


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## canadianhorsepower (Sep 26, 2012)

AH don't know what to say
I was knocked out when I saw this I broke my jaw when it hit the desk


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## gus (Sep 26, 2012)

Model Engineers' Workshop magazine 194 had a very good and instructive article on 
"Home Anodising" .Never though it could done at home.Front page showed I.C. Aeromodel Engines beautifully done and dyed.

Much as i like to,there is no way I can go into it as most of the chemicals are controlled.They won't sell unless you have a license.License is given to an individual working for a company buying the restricted chemicals.The lincensee is held responsible for safe storage. 
Years ago I had to apply for license to buy chemicals to make packing foam.Poor Gus gets fined for spillage.

Please post foto of your accomplishment. Congrats


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## Jasonb (Sep 27, 2012)

Gus, that article in MEW was written by Ramon!!

J


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## gus (Sep 27, 2012)

Jasonb said:


> Gus, that article in MEW was written by Ramon!!
> 
> J




Ooops. I got so engrossed by the content,I missed out the author----Ramon.
I subscripe to both ME magazines. 

The anodising and dye was so well done.Perhaps I try to find a way to buy the chemicals.


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