# Narex boring facing head



## Naiveambition (Feb 27, 2016)

Well after all my woes building a boring head, my trusty 
pawn shop snooper/ brother in law  came and dropped a narex boring facing head in my lap.   He had mentioned it to me a couple weeks ago and with a Google search revealed they are quite expensive. So his initial plan was to make a profit. So he shows it to me.  Like I'm gonna turn it down right:rant:  I wanted one but was focusing on dro first. So started building the one some of you was helping me on,  Now I'm hesitant to finish the small one since this pretty much takes care of all the boring I would ever need. May even just sell the small one. Only bad part is I don't have power downfeed yet to really bring out the narex.

Anyways the tool is a narex 36 or 1 3/8 auto boring, facing head. With the r8 shank. How 220$ lucky is that  The 28 page Manual  looks like it will cut tapers also? Trying to wrap my head around that one. Set looks new with one bit maybe used and one missing. Very nice set for 400$

There is a brake ring on this an was wondering if someone can explain this please.


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## Blogwitch (Feb 27, 2016)

N,

This link should explain things a little better for you and this is the same model that I use.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Boring-Tools/Universal-Boring-and-Facing-Heads

Click on 'more' to find out what the bits on the head do.


John


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## petertha (Feb 27, 2016)

You scored big time buddy. The nice ones used on ebay are like 2K US$.
The new ones on KBC Canada are <gulp>... put it this way, maybe you could trade it for a nice complete lathe.


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## petertha (Feb 27, 2016)

Blogwitch said:


> N,
> and this is the same model that I use...


 
John I was eyeing that one. Looks kind of like a Wohlhaupter clone. Maybe you can answer:
- what boring mode is the red knob handle used for (assume to keep a part of it stationary?)
- they reference metric shanks, tool range etc. Are the dial grads also metric? (ie. a metric head)
- are the MT / R8 arbors swappable to a common head, or is it integrated & you have to pick up front?
- do you happen to know manufacturer origin? (China/Taiwan..)
* if you ever feel like doing a demo movie one day. I'd love to see it!

I bought some ER collet blocks from Arc. Nice quality. They were superfast shipping to Canada & quite reasonable.


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## bobm985 (Feb 27, 2016)

Here's a link-http://www.narexmte.cz/system/enMTE_vcc2C3_01AA.htm

Enjoy!
Bob


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## Naiveambition (Feb 28, 2016)

When I was looking for prices they ranged quite wildly. eBay had just the head and shank for 750$   New prices were crazy also  from 1300 to 3500.  Had no idea these were this much for tooling.   I had seen eBay prices and was expecting new to be so where around a grand, but wow.

In the manual it does make reference to wolhaupter.   . Exploded views are offered to check for available shank sizes.   Country of origin is Czech Republic 

This thing is a small machine   amazing amount of work to create this tool

Also what kind of boring bar is this. Taper cutting. Internal recess?


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## Naiveambition (Feb 28, 2016)

Ok I understand the braking ring and all other functions except the safety pin engagement.   The pics are not clear.  Where exactly  is it ,    I see the dog pin on rear for stop but it's saying to engage safety pin first then adjust feed so?

Mine is a hair different than the one posted  at arc. Just glancing it has 3 gib holders, plus set screw


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## Blogwitch (Feb 28, 2016)

Peter,
Mine isn't from Arc, but basically it is the same.
The red handle is used for when you are not in boring mode or outside turning, so for facing, recessing etc, the stop blocks are set on the back of the head (I use slips), then when the handle is held or stopped from turning, the tool slide moves in or out, depending on direction of rotation by the amount per rev you have set up on the head, when the stop pin reaches either of the stop blocks, the safety pin is automatically ejected and cross movement stops straight away, it is very nice for putting in accurate internal circlip grooves. 
I have never used it for external turning, but I suppose sometime in the fairly near future, that feature will be called upon as I have difficulty setting up in the lathe four jaw, and that facility should allow me to do a lot more in my milling vice to get internal and external bores and sides perfectly parallel.
Mine has an R8 shank, and to be honest, I have never looked to see if it is machined on or replaceable, next time I get into my shop, I will have a look for you, but I personally suspect it would be replaceable as Arc can supply almost the full range. 
Looking at N's one, his is marked up with an imperial measurement whilst mine is Metric, so they must be available. I would suspect mine is a chineses clone, but it is accurate and very well made and can bore out, face or trepan to almost 10" if needed by swapping holding bars as the job progresses.

I have no mention of taper boring or turning in my destructions, but by getting the in/out sideways feed in sync with the machine Z axis feed then tapers should be achievable, and again, by getting your Z axis into the right feed, threading should be attainable as well, and that is the tool that N is showing that would be used for something like that. Mine didn't come with one of those, just normal brazed on tips.

BTW, I paid almost double what Arc is selling theirs at, but I did purchase it well before Arc got them in stock, and I got mine at a very special price, it should have been almost 2,000 bucks.

Don't get me wrong, this bit of kit only comes out when needed to do certain jobs, a lot of the time I just use a standard 2" boring head, but using high quality boring bars.

Hope this helps a little

John


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## Gedeon Spilett (Feb 28, 2016)

you can find plans to make your own, and about the same,(not the bulky one for the lathe with the starwheeel !)  if you wish, ! 

In the Model Engineer, serialized in 14 issues  between 16 june 89,(3851) to 20 july 90 (3877).
The advance mechanism is not that difficult to do :  While holding the knurled ring, an anchor holds a ratchet wheel on the screw, which turns one tooth only for each revolution of the head.


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## petertha (Feb 28, 2016)

Gedeon Spilett said:


> you can find plans to make your own...Model Engineer, serialized in 14 issues between 16 june 89,(3851) to 20 july 90 (3877).


 
That's interesting to know, thanks. I would love to see how they designed it. I wish there was an easy (and economical) way to get those M.E back issues. They are a goldmine of ideas & past work. Trouble is every time I get one of these great leads, I hunt & peck on ebay at 5-10$ an issue & never get all the puzzle pieces. Maybe Google they could digitize the whole lot, pay those past contributors a deserved royalty & people could purchase e-versions as required.


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## goldstar31 (Feb 28, 2016)

Why not buy say Jack Radfords book part of which is on the boring head- I think that is the one- or George Thomas's  two books?

I've got all three and have mentioned them several times. All the chapters have appeared in ME.

Again, there is 'Cleeve' and Tubal Cain and Chaddock. Ditto!

Enough to keep one out of mischief for a fairly busy couple of life spans?:hDe:

N


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## petertha (Feb 28, 2016)

goldstar31 said:


> .. I think that is the one- or George Thomas's two books? N


 
N, I have GT's nice book (Model engineers workshop manual). What this post is mostly about is the 'automatic' style of boring heads that can progressively traverse outward while turning. I think GT's design is the conventional set > lock > bore > (repeat) style?


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## Naiveambition (Feb 28, 2016)

When I was searching for plans , I had ran across one for an automatic boring head. I don't know how complete the plans were but it was beyond my skill level. 

As for the safety pin. I'm understanding what's supposed to happen, I just don't know how to make it happen.  In the manual it say to insert a small screwdriver and push down safety pin in one of two positions to engage ,and at the end of travel, (the pressure when hitting dog pin), will release the safety pin and will pop up automatically. 

 In the arc product description it makes it appear to be inside of the chrome or numbered dial and would be the click you feel when adjusting feed rates. Or one of the two slots in the numbered dial. 
  In this picture the pin sticking up near the center shaft, is this the safety pin?

The manual leaves much to be desired in terms of explanations, and part descriptions. Of the many pins throughout they are simply named "pin" , "shaft" etc.. One even says "ring with numbers" as the part description. So u can see why I'm having a hard time grasping what they are talking about. But thanks a bunch Bogs for the info so far, you have taught me a few things this week


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## goldstar31 (Feb 29, 2016)

N.
      It is obvious now( apologies, I'm getting old) that you want access to Jack Radford's book 'Improvements and Accessories for the Lathe'

Whilst GHT and JAR were continents apart, GHT went to New Zealand to visit JAR at Timaru( Sp) and actually came back with and used JAR's drawings.

Be assured that this is what you probably want. 

Having said all this, you might wonder but there was quite a 'cabal' or possibly a 'Lodge' of model engineers who worked together.
The only one 'out of step' was probably Martin Cleeve. History reports that Prof Chaddock encouraged GHT and GHT and 'Tubal Cain' often argued and discussed 'well into the night'. 

Basically, the whole thing comes out of nothing more than a top slide and feed screw on a faceplate. Boring was often no more than a lathe tool held by a clamp of sorts using a chuck.

'Cleeve' came up with a three position sweep thing which was no more than a Morse taper shank and a disk welded on .


What has to be remembered is that there wasn't things like milling machines until Ned Westbury made his Mill/Drill and this became the Dore Westbury with Arnold Throp's improvements( he made a Dore boring head( in GHT's book). Throp and Neil Hemingway( who was GHT's Executor) sold the Quorn castings from Chaddock as well as Rotary Tables and the  Kennet grinder.

I said what I said. Shakespeare would have called it a 'Nest of Singing Birds'

Perhaps this helps

Regards


Norman


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## Blogwitch (Feb 29, 2016)

So sorry to have missed your question N, I have been searching on my computer for the manual I wrote for Arc Euro to go with their boring head, but it is hiding somewhere and I can't find it.

If you can wait a little longer, I will retrieve my unit from my shop and take some piccies to explain where eveything is and how it works.

BTW, as far as I can remember, the self build head shown in ME was a very basic affair using a 'star' wheel being turned over by a pin fixed to the mill to move the slide. It is nowhere near as good as these ones you can buy, which gives more accurate movements.


John


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## Gedeon Spilett (Feb 29, 2016)

I dont have all these magazines at home, but I took a few pictures of the paper of AJ Lofquist in ME, to show the principle of the boring head, no so sofisticated as the commercial ones, but with a neat facing capacity. the pawl in the facing ring hit the wheel on the feed screw, which advances as long as the ring is held.


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## Blogwitch (Feb 29, 2016)

Just for N, to explain a little about 'THE LOCKING PIN'

This is my set.






Now to the bit you are looking for. This is the locking pin, above the wide knurled piece.
With this pin in the shown UP position, the knurled ring that it is sitting through is free to rotate.






This is the tension adjusting screw for the locking pin, do NOT tighten up too much otherwise the pin will have difficulty releasing when the stops on the back side of the head are reached.
Do NOT take it out completely, there are ball bearings and springs in there which are liable to go into orbit.






There are two of these cutouts in the chrome ring between the two knurled parts, 180 degrees apart, and you can use either of them.






Align the pin over one of the cutouts.






Then push down on the pin to lock it into place.







Now you are set to use the stop blocks to give you the distance you  require, as long as the setting scale isn't set to zero. I always set to  zero and leave the pin in when just boring.
The pin, once your stop blocks are hit will be ejected, then it is just a  matter of resetting the pin like I have shown you in the above pictures.


I now hope you can understand the setting of the head for automatic feed.


John


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## Blogwitch (Feb 29, 2016)

Just for Peter,

If you look at the last picture in the post above for N, you will see how the mill fitting is fixed.
It shouldn't be too hard of a job to change it, just whatever fixture you want to make with a soft end to it. Force fit a large diameter ring and drill it to fit the bolts on the top of the head.

Like these, but if you need an R8 fitting, they sell them at Chronos.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Blank-End-Arbors

Bottom of page on here.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=blank arbor&PN=Quick_Change_Toolposts.html

Using items like this allows you to change your mill or lathe without having to pay for expensive tooling all over again as long as they have this sort of bolt on fitting.

Over the last few years I have made 5c holders to take these blank end arbors to allow me to make tooling to fit any of my machines.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=24124

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=24125


John


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## petertha (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks for all the great information guys. Sheesh, I will never look at an automatic boring head the same again. Some clever minds went into those things.

John, the R8 arbor issue is clear now, thanks. What got me wondering in the first place is some 'wishful thinking' a while back looking at ebay Wohlhaupter's that invariably had MT or some other more euro-centric arbor & were apparently non-removable. Or at least people say that was the case within a certain date range. I wasn't clear if automatic BHs could function with an adapter sleeve given some parts of assembly are to remain stationary in certain modes. In any event one can buy a couple of your BHs brand new with R8 mounted for the price of a used Wohlhaupter & wondering what kind of life it had.


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## purpleknif (Feb 29, 2016)

We have several of those where I work fom a cute little 2' all the way up to an 18" with an eyebolt hole in it so you can get it in the spindle. We don't use them for boring but mostly for wide counterbore faces and grooves when its quicker to do it in the setup rather than throw it in the vtl. We alos have a 48" Lucas head that is essentially the same thing only on a much bigger scale. They're very versatile tools indeed .


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## Blogwitch (Feb 29, 2016)

Peter,

A few years ago I bought a boring head second hand that did everything that mine now does, but the mounting spindle was bent. I paid 35bucks for it and was repaired in about an hour, but like your suspicions about use, the datum lines were almost completely worn away, and was very hard to set, even though it was super accurate (0.0001" datum settings) giving 0.0002" accuracy down a bore.
It was a semi automatic one, with the stop bar being used, the head stopped turning on the outside and you fed the tool one way or another by turning a little key that you inserted into the key slot in the side.
I gave it to a friend of mine and he was quite happy using it, he had better eyesight than myself.







Straightening out the arbor by turning the 3MT down to a parallel 1/2" arbor while the head was held in accurately bored soft jaws..







John


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## Naiveambition (Mar 1, 2016)

thank you John for the info.  I had read the whole manual and while reading the back facing section the writer changed his wording to make it semi understandable which he seemed to do on every section. Put the manual with arc website plus narex website and you'll have a decent understanding 
Then your post confirmed and am all good.  Well except I lost one of the dogs. Didn't see or hear it so it could be anywhere:wall:

Works all the way it should. I played around on some  delrin and was able to get a great finish boring and facing. Boring worked better hand feeding vs the dial feed but I wouldn't attempt that in metal.  

Now I need to buy boring bars which are not exactly cheap for 5/8 shank. I do have a reducer to 3/8 I think so I'll look into that also.


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## Blogwitch (Mar 1, 2016)

N,

You can turn up more reducers yourself to get you down to smaller sizes. I use 1/8" & 3mm shanks on some of my special boring tools.
Just remember, you can use lathe boring tipped tools in your boring head if you so wish, you just need to turn up a sleeve to get from boring tool size to boring head hole. I have one that is 10" long for really deep stuff but I have the advantage of a right angle head which allows me to bore horizontally.

Isn't it nice knowing that you can bore a hole and face off exactly square to it?

Now you seem to have grasped everything, good luck on your progress.

John


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