# Chain Hook



## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

I need a chain hook for the end of the winch cable on my donkey engine. This morning I'm setting in my office, goofing around with ideas. I'm just thinking that if I chucked up a piece of 5/8" steel rod in my lathe, I could probably use a cutting tool and some file work to achieve this without too much trouble.


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

Then if I pared away some material from each side and drilled a couple of holes, I could have this---


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

Then with either a hacksaw or an endmill I could do this---


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

And then with a whole bunch of filework I could have this!!!


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## ozzie46 (Apr 22, 2012)

Now that is NEAT!!!!  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


 Ron


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## Catminer (Apr 22, 2012)

That is neat Brian :bow:, but you know in the real world the hook has to swival in relation to the cable :big:,
you don't want a twist in your hoisting rope Rof}

Peter


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## Mosey (Apr 22, 2012)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> And then with a whole bunch of filework I could have this!!!



Brian,
If I may be permitted to suggest a few little enhancements to your drawing in the interest of clarity, please don't be offended. (Please see the dialog about clarity in drawings we are having at "frustrations".)
Make your leader lines polylines, so they are not straight, circular, or any geometric. That way they will easily be distinguished from the parts, especially when in a complex drawing.
Make the dimension extensions NOT touch the part. Leave a little air.
I might like to tie the eyehole dimensions into the overall dimension.
How about lineweights being lighter for the dimensions, notes, etc., Lighter than the part itself, and the very outline of the part being the darkest widest line.
Regards,
Mosey


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## Ken I (Apr 22, 2012)

Catminer  said:
			
		

> you don't want a twist in your hoisting rope



Real cables are made with alternating sets of left and right hand twists to avoid the cable twisting under load - that said the lefts and rights almost never cancel out and results in some twisting under load - this degree of twist is sometimes part of the cable spec.

In free hoisting applications its always going to be a problem apart from the obvious need to slew the load.

Just an observation.

Ken


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

Let me begin by saying that I had no idea how difficult it is to file a round ball in a lathe. Then let me follow up by saying that its TWICE as hard to file two round balls on a lathe!!!---And they're still not really round. And I've polished them with a variety of emery paper, and its almost impossible to get the file marks out afterwards-----And they still aren't really "round".


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## Ken I (Apr 22, 2012)

Brian,
    What I do (in the absence of a ball turning attatchment) is to work out a number of angular flats on CAD which gets you close - this makes the filing much easier and more accurate.

The illustration below is a 30° increments and whatever the tangents are at the cardinal intersects.

The concave radius would defeat my minilathe so I would mill it on my RT with whatever radius cutter I had to hand. (Whilst on the mill you could also work out a bunch of X-Y coordinates to rough mill the balls into shape - then take it back to the lathe for final filing and polishing).

2c

Ken


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## b.lindsey (Apr 22, 2012)

Even so its looking good Brian. Given the closeness of the two balls, I'm not sure even a radius turner would get to the area between them. CNC would probably be the best way but aside from that i think it looks great. Even the real things aren't perfect!

Bill


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## smfr (Apr 22, 2012)

You could cut out a cardboard template based on the plans, and use that to see where you need to remove material.


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## lazylathe (Apr 22, 2012)

How about grinding a profile tool??

Andrew


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

Do you remember seeing cars with a bumper sticker that said "Don't follow me----I'm LOST"---Well, I may not be quite that bad off, but this is definitly a "make it up as I go along!!!


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## Ken I (Apr 22, 2012)

What the hell Brian, like Bill said its looking good anyway.

Ken


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

Well there!!! Thats as good as it has to be untill I get a little black paint on it.


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## kvom (Apr 22, 2012)

How about drilling a ball bearing and making the other two parts separately?


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 22, 2012)

How about I be satisfied with what I've just made??? For a piece of scrap steel and a couple of hours on a boring Sunday, it doesn't get any better than this!!! The shine on that ball will die back in a couple of hours to the same semi gloss finish as the boiler. The ugly knot holding the ball in place for now will be finished with some black thread reaving put on with fly tying dope when I get around to it.


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## idahoan (Apr 22, 2012)

I have this handy little book that I purchased from Guy Lautard Years ago ( I believe that it is still available); it works quite well and I have use it many times over the years. I think Marv also has someting similar on his site. This works really well for radii that are not super critical and more visual in appearance.

http://lautard.com/ballbook.htm


PS Nice job on your Donkey engine; I started on the W.M. Harris version but never got it finished. It is still in a box on the shelf waiting for me.


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## Herbiev (Apr 22, 2012)

Hi Brian. Excellent job on both engine and ball hook. Just a thought but if you wished to add a swivel, the local fishing tackle shop might have something to foot the bill if you find the cable twist a problem.


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## johnmcc69 (Apr 25, 2012)

Hey Brian,
do a search for "Dream Cutter". It's a compound attachment for small lathes that turns balls & swings radius (Radi). VERY COOL PRODUCT. Saw it in an Alibre newsletter I got at work. Designed in Alibre by some hobbyist.


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks for all the helpfull replys and suggestions guys. BUT----Remember, its only a model. It is going to spend the next 100 years or so setting around on a shelf, and may be fired up once a year to show an interested visitor. I am not terribly concerned that it doesn't swivel. I am not even terribly concerned that it isn't perfectly round.It LOOKS good, and that is really all that is required of it. It supplys enough weight to keep the line taut. I do have a ball turner, and I could have made a cardboard template. I could have used two ball bearings (but if you have ever tried to anneal a ball bearing to work with it, you probably wouldn't have made that suggestion.) I could have designed it with an internal swivel----But it just doesn't matter that much.


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## miner49r (Apr 25, 2012)

I have been waiting for our resident mathematician to give you a proverbial slap for not using his sphere program.


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## rhitee93 (Apr 25, 2012)

Not to be a suck up, but I think it's great.


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## Brian Rupnow (Apr 25, 2012)

miner49r  said:
			
		

> I have been waiting for our resident mathematician to give you a proverbial slap for not using his sphere program.



Marv does some truly great math, and is a hero for giving it freely to the masses. I downloaded and tried to run some of his programs, but wasn't succesfull. I'm not terribly worried about that, because I'm no slouch at math myself, and that combined with my near magical engineering design software would have quickly let me figure out how to step turn the ball-----if I had really cared that much.----And thank you rhitee93!!!


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## johnmcc69 (Apr 25, 2012)

Really, that is great Brian...sketch it up on a napkin. Thats how ideas are born . Build it in your kitchen . There are NO RULES to creating. We use devices everyday that were just an idea & never documented. Yes, thats a lot of MATH. & thtey deserve
 muuuuch credit.


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## Mosey (Apr 26, 2012)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> How about I be satisfied with what I've just made??? For a piece of scrap steel and a couple of hours on a boring Sunday, it doesn't get any better than this!!! The shine on that ball will die back in a couple of hours to the same semi gloss finish as the boiler. The ugly knot holding the ball in place for now will be finished with some black thread reaving put on with fly tying dope when I get around to it.


Wouldn't a snap eye woven into the end of the rope just like the big ones look nice? J.

Forgot to mention...that's one hell of a great machine you made!


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## b.lindsey (Apr 26, 2012)

The whole thing looks great Brian and the ball hook definitely adds a nice finishing touch!! Back in the day, I assume these would have likely been cast and therefore imperfect as well. Looks like you will need a whole shelf just for that model alone 

Bill


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## Busydad (Jul 1, 2013)

That is a great looking finished engine..


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## kf2qd (Jul 1, 2013)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Let me begin by saying that I had no idea how difficult it is to file a round ball in a lathe. Then let me follow up by saying that its TWICE as hard to file two round balls on a lathe!!!---And they're still not really round. And I've polished them with a variety of emery paper, and its almost impossible to get the file marks out afterwards-----And they still aren't really "round".



I have found that it is easier if you have several grades of emery cloth and start out very course and work your way finer. Plenty of speed. The courser grade will cut fast to start with but the results come out really smooth. And if you finish up with a little oil on the part for the final polishing.


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## itowbig (Jul 10, 2013)

well brain i like it a lot thats pretty cool.
theres always somebody to make things better. 
but i think its just flippen great the way it is i always look for 
your work it keeps my small mind out of trouble hahaha


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