# Mounting a spin indexer on a small mill.



## zeeprogrammer (Aug 16, 2009)

Don't no one start wagging a finger at me...this is not the way to mount a spin index on a mill...







As you can see...it's wider than the table. No good way to mount.

CC provided a nice link to a Bogstandard thread...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2681.0

Nice modifications there...but I don't have enough faith in myself or the mill to make those kinds of changes yet.

According to both the thread and the documentation that came with the spin index...it should be ready to use as is. For grins I mounted a DI in the mill, a rod in the spin index with a collet and measured runout. Virtually nothing for a couple of inches which is where I expect to working. After a few inches...the rod was bending due to pressure of the DI. I hadn't supported the end ...but good enough.

So I'm thinking of turning the thing upside and down and drilling four holes in the plate that would allow a bolt to a T-nut on the outer channels of the table. Even better would be slots from the edges.

I don't know what kind of material the base is.

*Can I center drill and drill holes in the base? Anything special I should know?*

or...

*Can I use an end-mill and slot the base? Anything special I should know?*

Thanks.


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## deere_x475guy (Aug 16, 2009)

Zee I believe the material is cast iron and the slotting is a good idea to quickly align it with the mill axis. I am lucky enough to have enough z travel that I use mine in the vise and when I use in on the surface grinder I use a machinist square to get it close enough.


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## PhiberOptix (Aug 16, 2009)

Zee 

The material is proberly Cast Iron,
Drill/Mill as such

Andy


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## CrewCab (Aug 16, 2009)

ZeeP .. Thanks for posting the photo, probably, like you, I'm quite surprised how big the Spindex actually is  ........ OK body is a casting, it will be Cast Iron, that's good, nice to machine, albeit a bit messy :  .......... your X2 is perfectly capable of reducing the base width and putting in a couple of slots so you can clamp it to the table ......... but it will be a (very) steady job. ..................... (perhaps add another one or two "very's" )  

Have fun, I'm looking forward to the updates :bow:

CC


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks Bob. My vise doesn't open enough...and even if it did, I'd probably have to square (mill) the base since the vise should be square already. Not something I want to do yet (insufficient experience and confidence in machine).

Thanks Andy. I guess that means I can machine the slots with the end mills I have.

Reading of other posts on CI seem to indicate one should be careful with this stuff when machining it. Can come off as a power and breath it? I'm thinking of having a vacuum on at the time. Is a small wet-n-dry vac good enough? Maybe use a respirator?

Just saw your post CC. You seem to be suggesting I reduce the width of the base. Now that I look at it again...it is pretty big. Hmm...maybe I should go for it...mill it enough to put in the vise maybe.

I haven't had the greatest luck milling on the side...I get a poor finish (climb milling) or its wavey. Side forces and all that. So how about setting the thing on its side and milling it down? What do you think? How easy is it to machine? (That is, how deep a cut?) Then I'd need to figure out how to make it square.

Thanks.


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## shred (Aug 16, 2009)

I drilled mine to mount on a Taig (once) and bolted it down that way. The bolts aren't precise enough for final alignment in any case, so the drilling doesn't have to be precisely spot-on-- IIRC I drilled it in the drill press after marking it out.


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks Shred.

You know...I think I'll try that first...drill the holes.
That will keep me going.
When I get enough experience (confidence) I can go further.

Thanks all.


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## CrewCab (Aug 16, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> mill it enough to put in the vise maybe.



It's a VICE .....  ;D  ................ not a vise  :

CC ...............  :hDe:


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 16, 2009)

CrewCab  said:
			
		

> It's a VICE ..... ;D ................ not a vise :
> 
> CC ............... :hDe:



See that line under my avatar there? The one that says West Chester, PA? Yeah...that's the one. VISE. ;D To spell it otherwise around here would be a sin. :big:


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## vlmarshall (Aug 16, 2009)

It's not a vice... I can quit any time that I want. ;D


Or something like that.


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 16, 2009)

Darn.
Drill press has no head room.
Mill has no head room.
I'll have to try milling slots.
(It wouldn't make sense to plunge cut with end mills would it? Even if could...seems better to slot.)
Now to figure out clamping.


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## Kermit (Aug 16, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Now to figure out clamping.




Boy and how! My first attempt wasn't too swift. I have developed a very healthy respect for those spinning masses at a very early stage.


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## Deanofid (Aug 16, 2009)

CrewCab  said:
			
		

> It's a VICE ..... ;D ................ not a vise :
> 
> CC ............... :hDe:



That's funny. 

If you have a vice, it may lead you to visiting the gambling halls or the working girl standing on the curb.
If you have a vise, you can use it to make stuff on your milling machine.

I don't know what that makes of the Vice President...


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## deverett (Aug 17, 2009)

Deanofid  said:
			
		

> I don't know what that makes of the Vice President...


Or in nautical terms: The Vice Admiral's Vice was the Rear Admiral's Rear. Hello Sailor.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## rake60 (Aug 17, 2009)

steamdave  said:
			
		

> Or in nautical terms: The Vice Admiral's Vice was the Rear Admiral's Rear. Hello Sailor.



Rof}
Alright now, back to the topic.

Rick


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## Blogwitch (Aug 17, 2009)

Zee,

Don't worry too much about cast iron dust when machining it.

Because cast iron contains a good amount of carbon, normally you machine it dry. That is when it produces a lot of the heavy 'dust'. 
There is nothing stopping you 'wetting' the area with some sort of coolant, oil, or a spray of WD40. That will make the dust form into a fine paste and so will not become airbourne.

It then becomes a wipe away problem, rather than a brushing or sucking exercise.


Blogs


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks Blogs. That helps a lot. I think it gives me that last puzzle piece. Again, thanks.

Weird. I had a dream about machining the slots. The dream was just too real. Screwed it up.

I'll be real careful Kermit. I'll try to post pics.

It may be a while...wife comes home today!!! Yeepee. Managed a bit of cleaning. Daughter and her boyfriend took pity on me and did a bunch of weeding. (It wasn't out of goodness of heart - it'll cost me.) Not a great cleaning job but it should cut down on the grovelling....maybe save the knees.

Dean and Dave...what Rick said. :big: (Not really - otherwise it becomes a dry text read.)


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## Kermit (Aug 17, 2009)

Just so you know the "next time".  Those fertilizers with weed control really do work. With in one week of putting some down this spring all the dandy lions and clover were brown and wrinkly dry, but the grass was doing great. 

 ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 17, 2009)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> Just so you know the "next time".  Those fertilizers with weed control really do work.



Hoping there 'is' a next time.
She'd kill me if I put anything in her garden. ;D
Thanks though!


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## Maryak (Aug 17, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Hoping there 'is' a next time.
> She'd kill me if I put anything in her garden. ;D



It's good to know I'm not alone. ;D

Best Regards
Bob


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## putputman (Aug 17, 2009)

Zee, if you decide to go ahead with the key slot on the bottom, you might consider doing it in steps if you are not real confident in getting the alignment you are after.

Mill the slot in the spinner base (after you have aligned it as close as you can) at 1/4" wide or some dimension well under the slot size in your mill table. Then make a key with a stepped size that will fit both your mill table and spinner. If your alignment is satisfactory for you, you are done. If not, react the slot in the spinner a little larger (again after correcting the alignment) and make another key to fit. At some point, you will get exactly what you want.

You will find this a very valuable tool for future engine builds. I have a very expensive Hardinge indext head and a $29.00 spinner (eBay - made in Poland) & I use the spinner the most.

I'm keeping an eye on you. ;D  ;D  ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 17, 2009)

putputman  said:
			
		

> I'm keeping an eye on you. ;D ;D ;D



Goodie. Pressure is a good thing. :-\ I can certainly use more of that. ;D

Thanks Arv. I'm looking forward to using the spindex. As simple as it may be to most of you...I was one happy guy when I figured out how to set the DI on the carriage (thanks to several member's suggestions.).

I think I'm going to like this tool.

It's been said before...I'll say it again...great hobby...great forum...great members.


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 20, 2009)

Still trying to get my head around this spindex...that is, how to mount it so I can modify it...

First goal is to make some slots so I can mount the thing on the mill table.
Second goal is to make the flange square so I can mount it in the vise.

First pic shows one possibility for making the slots. My question is...safe or unsafe? I can't mill both sides in one setting. The flange is too wide. It's do one side...remove, reclamp, then do the other. I can live with that.







This pic was a go at mounting with the idea of milling the flange down square. I don't think so. Can't travel that far in Y.






This pic shows another try. Pay no attention to the little triangles at the bottom...I would use shims instead. First...same question...safe or unsafe.

If safe...then any thoughts on how I can make this square? It's not about making the edge square to the bottom. Given a vise that is square to the table...putting the spindex in the vise...can it still be square?






The 2nd goal is a nice to have. If necessary...I can see if there's anyone in the area who could do this for me.

But I need the slots. So the most important question is...will the first pic be okay?

Thanks.

I'm between weeding...hot and sweaty...hopefully this made sense. :big:


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## vlmarshall (Aug 20, 2009)

In any of your setups, can you get to the Spindex spindle to indicate it square?

Do you have an angle plate?


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## bearcar1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Hiya' Z'. In your first photo you are using a vee block under the body casting. I should point out that this is not a machined or 'indicated' part of the tool. To explain it in better terms, that surface is not parallel to the bottom of the casting or more importantly the spindle. THAT is where you should be indicating from so that the bottom of the casting can then be skimmed, and thus be flat, as well as in the same plane as the spindle center line, which is what you want to be striving towards. You should first indicate just the spindle to determine its accuracy. Use two, matched, vee blocks to do this, one supporting each end of just the bare spindle. Then, if it is acceptable, install the spindle in the base casting and again supporting the spindle at both ends, proceed to mill the bottom. Using only one vee block on the outside of the body casting is unstable and should be avoided. Some larger vee blocks would be the ticket as well as some support underneath the overhang of the base sides. The 'trick' here is to make the spindle the datum point and work your way out/up from there. 


BC1
Jim


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 20, 2009)

Hi Chip...yes I have an angle plate. See reply to Jim...

Hi Jim. Thanks. Yes, the vee block is there and no, I didn't think it would provide any kind of reference. Primarily because I don't believe the body of the spindex can be used as a reference. I was thinking, as you've suggested, that the spindle must be the reference (datum)...I'm just trying to figure out how. I had thought about putting a collet in with a piece of rod sticking out...but you seem to suggest it's just the spindle. Then I'm wondering if there's enough of it to indicate on?

I'm such a newbie at this...I'm assuming by spindle you mean the part that rotates inside the body. Only about 1" of it stick out.

I'm also assuming...perhaps wrongly...that the base is flat and square to the spindle. It shouldn't need skimming. The specs seem to indicate that but on the other hand...I saw (drat...can't remember his thread...) that 'one of the great members'...skimmed it and put a key in.

I don't doubt your point about making the spindle the datum point...still trying to figure out how.

Thanks. Not a big deal...I can slot the thing and move forward.

Seems like the clamping is okay from pic 1?


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## vlmarshall (Aug 20, 2009)

Hmm, awkward setup for a little mill.

You need to indicate the spindle to cut the sides of the flange square, and it's a long way down the side of the Spindex for a cutter to reach. That's why I asked ya about the slitting saw holder the other day, with a wider cutter you could at least establish a parallel line on the flange, so you'd have something to set up to after you flip the Spindex.

I don't like your clamping shown in the two copies of pic #1 for the same reasons already mentioned. Can't you get some V-blocks under that spindle, or some taller blocks ( a stack of step blocks? ) under the bottom side of the mounting flange?
Also, your left-hand clamp bugs me, with the stud closer to the wrong end of the strap. Fix it. ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 20, 2009)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Hmm, awkward setup for a little mill.
> 
> That's why I asked ya about the slitting saw holder the other day, with a wider cutter you could at least establish a parallel line on the flange, so you'd have something to set up to after you flip the Spindex.
> 
> ...



Mm..methinks I have a few things WRONG! Well...good to know you think it's awkward. It's why I asked. It struck me that way too...I just don't know why yet.

As for the slitting saw holder...I saw the question but I don't understand it. Use a slitting saw to chop the flange down instead of a mill?

Ah...stud at wrong end of strap. Good to know. So the lesson is keep the stud as close to the work piece as possible. Thanks. I never made it to clamping school. :big:

Not sure I understand about v-block under spindle or more step blocks. A drawing would help a heap. My intent was to see if there's way anything to this idea or was I way off. I can certainly put another v-block under spindle and shim as necessary. I think that's what you're saying...

Add v-block or blocks under spindle end...move stud closer to work. Good to go?

Thanks. (Chip.)


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## Blogwitch (Aug 20, 2009)

Zee,

If you look at your opening post, where CC points you to my old article on modifying the spindex unit. The first four pictures show you how it has to be held for machining the foot. 

Because your mill is so small, I don't think you could safely hold the spindex in your vise and have a rigid enough setup to do any accurate machining anyway.

The way to go is to clamp it to the table, and you will get as best a rigid setup as is possible with your machine.

Now you are only looking at the mounting slots for squaring up, whilst there are other areas where you can get it just as true, and by going this way, it will be a lot easier for you.

Before I go any further, remember that the clamping slots you want to make, don't have to be super accurate, they only need to be a slot that you can put a bolt thru and clamp the spindex to the table. One at the back, and one diagonally opposite at the front will be plenty strong enough. And they don't have to be machined in, an hacksaw and file will be plenty good enough if you can't hold it rigid enough to machine.

So now back to your problem of getting the spindex square to the table.

If you look at the attached C-o-C, it shows how, by just getting one edge machined square to the spindle, you can use the tables' edge to align it.

If you can get a setup, similar to my post, and get that one edge square, you will be laughing all the way to the bank. Once you have done that, only then, see if you can get mounting slots into the casting, as I don't know where in relation to the spindex casting your table slots line up to. But if the worst came to the worst, you can just use clamps, just as I do, they only take a couple of minutes to put on anyway.


Blogs


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 20, 2009)

Blogs,

First off...my apologies...I had seen many of your other posts...it didn't occur to me you were the same person.

Secondly...thanks. I was fast coming to the same conclusion...get it clamped to the table. Accuracy of mounting slots is not critical.

Your tip about squaring to edge is good. However, it still leaves the question of getting the edge square to the spindle. But this may be left for a later time. Being able to put the spindex in the vise is only of convenience. I should be able to square the spindex to the table using the spindle...I'm hoping.

I'm thinking that getting the edge square to the spindle may be a bit much for my itty bitty mill. Ah well...it stays on the list for now.

Thanks very much.


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## Blogwitch (Aug 21, 2009)

Zee,

Not your fault, the people who know me realise it is me that is posting.

Now to get back to your problem. You are giving up too quickly. There are a lot of cat skinning ways, many not as obvious as others.

We need to come up with an easy solution for you to get that edge machined up.

I don't know how much reach your mill has in the quill department, and if you have enough room to get this done. But if it will work, you can't get a much easier setup than this.

Look at the attached drawing. By mounting the largest good quality straight bar into your spindex, and mounting it as shown, with the casting hanging over the edge of a t-slot or table edge, then clock along the bar to get the spindex square to the quill and straight to the table run. Clamp it all down tight.

Then come down with your cutter into the t-slot, and mill away at the edge of the casting. If you can get that done, it will be perfectly in line with the spindex spindle, so allowing you then to bolt a bar along the edge and then to be aligned against the table edge or if narrow enough, down into a t-slot, so that you can then clamp it down nice and square.

If you can't do it this way, it might be time for a bit of grovelling, to see if someone can machine that edge parallel to the spindle.

Blogs


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 21, 2009)

Blogwitch  said:
			
		

> I don't know how much reach your mill has in the quill department, and if you have enough room to get this done.



Not enough. Body of spindex prevents mill head coming down enough for cutter to reach. And, while not a good idea, diameter of a chuck to hold cutter doesn't allow cutter reach flange from the side.



			
				Blogwitch  said:
			
		

> If you can't do it this way, it might be time for a bit of grovelling, to see if someone can machine that edge parallel to the spindle.



I may take a trip to a nearby community college. Their curriculum lists what looks like a good machining program. I can also try a mech tech at work who happens to be a certified machinist (he doesn't work at it but maybe he knows someone).

No...not giving up. Just postponing. In the meantime I think I can clamp or make slots and use the tool.

Thanks Blogs. Your advice has been more helpful than you may know.


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## GailInNM (Aug 21, 2009)

Zee,
As I recall, although it has been many years and I have CRS syndrome, I bolted a large piece of angle aluminum to the table.
Then I put in a large bar in the Spindex that stuck out both ends. With the Spindex turned on it's side, I set the bar on a 1-2-3 block on each end to make the bar parallel to the table. I may have had to put a parallel on top of each of the 1-2-3 blocks to get the edge of the Spindex nearest the table off the table. Then I clamped the Spindex to the angle aluminum with a few C-clamps, 1 near the table and two on top. Then milled the top edge. Once that edge is done, you can reverse it and either set it up on the 1-2-3 blocks again or use the just done edge to set it up. I used the 1-2-3 blocks and the same z setting on the mill so the two cleaned up edges would be equidistant to the spindle center line.

While it would be nice, the angle aluminum does not have to be a perfect right angle. Any mill stock will be close enough but it does need to be fairly good size.

Gail in NM


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 21, 2009)

Thanks Gail,

So here's a pic...similar to 3rd pic earlier...






It has a large bar (biggest I've got that fits) through the Spindex and on top of 1-2-3 blocks. My assumption is that should put the spindex parallel to the table.

Clamp on either side.

I don't have an angle bracket other than a small one...it doesn't fit anyway.

The little step block you see is there for illustration. I'm thinking shims but to keep them thin and in the middle. This to make the base (yet to be cleaned) perpendicular to table and therefore parallel to spindex. (Again...assuming that the base already is parallel to spindex.)

Then zip along the top.
Do as you suggest..flip it around to keep the same Z...and zip again.

Then figure out out to mount the thing upside down and put 4 slots in. They're not critical other than to make sure the thing is clamped down tight.

I'm sorry to be beating this to death...

Everyone's help is very much appreciated. I hope others are getting some value out of this.


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## CrewCab (Aug 21, 2009)

Just a different slant on this forming in my old and dull grey matter ............ but ........... the requirement is to reduce the width of the Spindex base to suit the X2 and provide a couple of slots so it can be clamped to the mill table, accuracy is not super important as there will be enough clearance in the slots for adjustment to square it up .......... or have I missed something ???

CC


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 21, 2009)

CrewCab  said:
			
		

> forming in my old and dull grey matter ...



At first I thought...ah...there I follow...but then I realized...same age...already there!
Wait...my matter is 'gray'...is there hope?



			
				CrewCab  said:
			
		

> the requirement is to reduce the width of the Spindex base to suit the X2 and provide a couple of slots so it can be clamped to the mill table, accuracy is not super important as there will be enough clearance in the slots for adjustment to square it up .......... or have I missed something



That's exactly it. It seems the vise (yeah yeah...vice) is usually always mounted on the table. Milling the base to be square so it can be mounted in the vise would save time...but it's a nice to have.

There's no rush here...I may put the slots in so I can have some fun with the Spindex and then later get serious and 'improve it'.

Thanks CC.


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## GailInNM (Aug 21, 2009)

Carl,
I think you are creeping up on it. On your set up, switch places with the clamp bolts and the 1-2-3 blocks to get the bolts closer to the Spindex. I know Vernon all ready beat you up on that, but it's important.

I don't remember how I put the slot in the base. It's been about 30 years since I did it. I just have one, but it is accurately parallel to the spindle. Although I have a larger milling machine now, I did it on a mill about the same size as yours. 

I "think" that I used 4 spacers to support two stout bars in the x axis on the mill and clamped them down. Then I clamped the Spindex to the bottom of the bars along the edges using a couple of bolts as my Spindex has some clamp bolt holes in the edges. A few clamps would probably work for you as long as you take light cuts. I indicated the edge of the base in with a DTI so my slot would be in line with the spindle. Light cuts are the order of the day with a set up like this.

Gail in NM


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 21, 2009)

Thanks Gail.

Yes I did wonder about the clamp bolts and the 1-2-3 blocks. (I knew Vernon was just waiting for an opportunity to beat me up again. He owes me beer you know.) I had it in my mind that it was more important that the blocks be up against the spindex so the bar would have good support. Probably not a problem with such a thick bar.

Thanks for the tips.


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## CrewCab (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> There's no rush here...I may put the slots in so I can have some fun with the Spindex and then later get serious and 'improve it'.



So why not trim it to width and form a couple of slots with an angle grinder, tidy it up with a file and there you go, you can square it up before nipping it down. If, in the future, you find a suitable way to hold it or someone who can do it for you there should be plenty of meat left to square it up.

CC


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## vlmarshall (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> (I knew Vernon was just waiting for an opportunity to beat me up again. He owes me beer you know.)



Not "beer", "*A* beer"! It was a typo! :rant: 

Besides, I wasn't beating you up over that, I just didn't want you to knock a Spindex on your foot. *beer* ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

CrewCab  said:
			
		

> So why not trim it to width and form a couple of slots with an angle grinder, tidy it up with a file and there you go



Why not indeed? For now it's just time for this or time for that (like weeding - sigh).

This is the nth time someone has mentioned an angle grinder. I don't have one...never used one...should get one. Not sure I need it for this though. Why not mount the spindex upside down and mill the slots from the side?



			
				Vernon  said:
			
		

> It was a typo!



Repeatedly saying something doesn't make it true. Neither does saying it louder. :big:


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## Foozer (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Why not indeed? For now it's just time for this or time for that (like weeding - sigh).



How is the weeding going by the way, I hate weeding, so much so that . . . yup they look nice just where they are. Now pressure washing, there is a relaxing chore. I can spend hours blasting things clean just sweeping that spray back and forth, watching the high pressure jet of water blow the crap out of everything in its path. 

Got a little problem piece? Ya, set it on the deck and pressure wash it into next week  Man - Machine - Power - Dominance

Works good on showing weeds, Who's your Daddy?

So you got a couple items giving ya fits and starts. Put em aside for a while, itll come to you . 

Hows those Mystery Pieces doing?

Robert


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> How is the weeding going by the way, I hate weeding, so much so that . . .



I hate weeding too. I hate reminders too.



			
				Foozer  said:
			
		

> Hows those Mystery Pieces doing?



mysteriously

I saw a piece of raw stock appear the other day...waiting to see if it's related.


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## Foozer (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I hate weeding too. I hate reminders too.
> 
> mysteriously
> 
> I saw a piece of raw stock appear the other day...waiting to see if it's related.



Was it smiling at ya? might want to introduce it to old Mr. Sledge Hammer before it gets any ideas

Robert


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

Well this is scaring the bejeebers (sp?) out of me.
I think I'll stop and get someone else to do it.

Mounted the Spindex...started milling down the edge.

3/4" of an inch. That just seems too much.

Have no idea how deep to cut. Going pretty light. It'll take forever.
Making an awful lot of racket.
Debris everywhere.

Should probably hack off the bigger chunk with something else and then trim with mill. Still...

This is just too big a step for a guy who just cut itty bitty bits of metal a few months ago.

Nope. Not for me.


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## mklotz (Aug 22, 2009)

> This is the nth time someone has mentioned an angle grinder. I don't have one...never used one...should get one. Not sure I need it for this though.



Think of an angle grinder as the metalworking equivalent of a chain saw.

This is one of the few motorized Harbor Freight tools worth buying. They sound something awful but they just keep on keeping on.

Moreover, they're dead cheap. This model...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91222

is $18. Get one of their 20% coupons and you can knock that down to $14.40. They're so cheap I bought two. That way I can have one set up with a grinding wheel and the other with a cutoff wheel (in case I need to shorten a bed frame or some equally recalcitrant piece of steel).


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

nth + 1

Thanks Marv. I'll need to go learn a bit about them...types of wheels and all that. Plus, I'll probably have to set up some kind of work area in the garage. (Sorry to say...this is one man without a spot in the garage. Oh right...not a man yet...no lawn tractor, no outdoor grill, and no bowling ball. Someday though. I really want that bowling ball.)

In the meantime...wife has expressed concern about the amount of money I'm spending on this hobby.

Maybe I can strike a deal...more weeding maybe? Durn it.


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

Before I go breaking down the setup and cleaning up...I would like a better idea of feed rate and depth of cut for milling the cast iron base.

I still think milling 3/4" off is too much...but since I'm set up...I can experiment a little. I just don't want to experiment without some advice. It scares me and I don't want to get hurt or damage equipment.

Thanks.

(Someday this thread will end....someday...and I can get back to building Isabella.)


[EDIT: Here's a pic of the setup. The end mill is already removed.]


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## mklotz (Aug 22, 2009)

> Someday though. I really want that bowling ball.



The only good thing I can say about bowling is that it's marginally more efficient than curling and you don't need that stupid little broom.

Get the bowling ball, though. Mill a flat on it and mount a vise. Have your wife sew you a leather torus, fill it with sand and plop the ball on it. Voila, one of the finest engraving vises one could want.



> In the meantime...wife has expressed concern about the amount of money I'm spending on this hobby.



Now's the time to make some ornate, really blinged brass candle holders. Maybe some matching napkin rings to accompany them. (I've always wanted to make some Moebius band napkin holders but I never could figure out how to machine them. Guess I need to make them from sheet and solder them.)

With your appreciation of fine wines, maybe some decorative stainless stoppers for opened bottles you haven't finished. (Wait, wait - there's a flaw somewhere in there but I can't spot it.) Buy some square silver wire and twist up a few cocktail forks.


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## vlmarshall (Aug 22, 2009)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Have your wife sew you a leather torus, fill it with sand and plop the ball on it. ...
> Maybe some matching napkin rings to accompany them. (I've always wanted to make some Moebius band napkin holders but I never could figure out how to machine them. Guess I need to make them from sheet and solder them.)
> With your appreciation of fine wines, maybe some decorative stainless stoppers for opened bottles you haven't finished. (Wait, wait - there's a flaw somewhere in there but I can't spot it.) Buy some square silver wire and twist up a few cocktail forks.



Moebius napkin rings, a torus, bottle stoppers, logic benders and surface twists... just go all the way, Zeep, and machine a Klein bottle! Your wife might thank you for the infinite storage space, and the rest of us are guaranteed an interesting build thread... ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

I used to think I was a fortunate man. For 34 years...

No flowers necessary...
no chocolates...
no jewelry...
no cards or other nice-ities..

Birthday? Happy Birthday Dear. Thank You.
Christmas? What would like dear? Oh? Well then buy it for yourself.

Bonus...she doesn't like to go shopping.

I'm the same way.
It's not that we're not mushy...oh I can be very mushy...that's how I landed her.
But material things just never figured in. Maybe because we were so poor back when. I remember the day we realized we could afford to put nuts in the brownies. (She still keeps a can of condensed milk handy.)

So why unfortunate?
I can't bribe her.

So thanks for the suggestions...but they'd only work on a mistress...and I won't go there.

Sorry to go on...but it reminds of a conversation I had with a (woman) associate at work some years ago...she said..."my wife had trained me well".

No. It was my Mom. It was all her fault.


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## bearcar1 (Aug 22, 2009)

Some left-handed nostril inhalers would be a great gift idea. Look at it this way, when she asks what you were thinking, you can reply "but honey, these are special. no one else in the whole wide world has a set of these." At which point, standing close to an open doorway to the outside would be in order as well. _ :big:

BC1
Jim


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## CrewCab (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Should probably hack off the bigger chunk with something else and then trim with mill.



Yup ................. angle grinder 

CC


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

bearcar1  said:
			
		

> Some left-handed nostril inhalers would be a great gift idea. Look at it this way, when she asks what you were thinking, you can reply "but honey, these are special. no one else in the whole wide world has a set of these." At which point, standing close to an open doorway to the outside would be in order as well. _



 Rof} Rof}

With one leg already out the door...

 Rof} Rof}

Yeah...well...I married a smart one...another of my few requirements for a suitable mate. What was I thinking?

Can't win. She's faster than me. Before I get the 'wha?' out...she's already got me thinking..."sure...absolutely...I agree."

But I'm not complaining. Nope. Pretty happy.
Man she's good at making me think that.

................

Angle grinder. Okay. I believe it was you CC that suggested angle grinder and slots. That's why I said earlier I have a bit to learn. How you use an angle grinder to cut slots...no idea.

.................

Man this fun. Much better than Thursday.


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## Maryak (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> How you use an angle grinder to cut slots.



VERY CAREFULLY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










Best Regards
Bob


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## vlmarshall (Aug 22, 2009)

Maryak  said:
			
		

> VERY CAREFULLY



Yeah, no kidding, they don't call 'em "hand grinders" ONLY for their small size... ;D


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

Vernon...I'm glad you're maintaining your reputation for being unhelpful.
Bob...I'm surprised at you.

 Rof}

Just kidding. ;D

Really. ;D

I mean it. Really. ;D

Now I have to negotiate for the angle grinder. If you've been reading...you know how tough that's going to be.


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## vlmarshall (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Vernon...I'm glad you're maintaining your reputation for being unhelpful.



Yeah, yeah. That WAS helpful; a concern for your safety. I don't want you to be forced to learn base-nine math.  ;D 

Make that lever yet?


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 22, 2009)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Yeah, yeah. That WAS helpful; a concern for your safety. I don't want you to be forced to learn base-nine math.  ;D
> 
> Make that lever yet?



Ow.

I work in base 16. Remember? I got a 0xF4240 of these.

I work in base 2 as well but we won't mention that. Too many digits...too many people get weirded out. (It's 0b11110100001001000000 by the way. Any bets how many people are going to check that out?. I'll say none. No one wants to go through the trouble of counting the 1's and 0's. Well...with one exception.)

Octal? You want octal? Well that's just a fringe element...but I've got a 03641100 of those too.

Okay okay I know what you mean and I (grundgingly) appreciate it.
Maybe what I said was a low-blow. (But you admitted it yourself.)
It's what happens when you owe beer and don't pay up.
But now I know what you're capable of. Lever huh? Okay. Okay. I see.
 :big:

What a mess of a thread. :big:


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## vlmarshall (Aug 22, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Ow.... base 16...0xF4240 ... base 2 ... 0b11110100001001000000 ... No one wants to go through the trouble of counting...with one exception...Octal...03641100...low-blow...It's what happens when you owe beer and don't pay up...What a mess of a thread.



What a lot of hassle over a beer. *beer*


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## DavesWimshurst (Aug 23, 2009)

Carl,
There's a million reasons to use the internet :hDe:
Dave


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 23, 2009)

Vernon...we're talking beer after all.



			
				DavesWimshurst  said:
			
		

> There's a million reasons to use the internet



 :big:

Thanks for reminding me Dave. Seriously. I don't know what it is but I'm always saying to myself..."Oh yeah! I can look it up on the net!" A lot of times I post the questions and then remember...and then go look. Maybe I'm too focused on replying...for me, it's a lot like the person I'm talking to is in front of me.


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 12, 2009)

Time again for the Spindex.

Have angle grinder. Will grind.

First some questions. I put the Spindex on the mill table so I could think about it. I want to do two things. One is to square and narrow the base so it fits in my vise. The other is to make 4 slots so I can clamp it to the mill table.

I think the first job will be to square and narrow. I'll grind down close to where I want and then put it in the mill and end-mill it the rest of the way.

Now about the slots. From the side? Or from the ends? A helpful member gave me a clue that I should drill the ends of the slots...and then slot. Not sure I even need to slot. Thoughts?

In looking at the Spindex sitting on the mill table I realized that my clamping bolts are too big. Because the table is so narrow, the bolts end up near the vertical support. The two bolts from the clamping kit for the rotary table would fit but I have only two. (Some one is going to say make more.) Even so, I suspect there's no room for a washer. Is it needed?

[EDIT: Stop reading now! The following can only get you into trouble. Thanks Joe.]
Another thought...I'm wondering why I can't make the parts for the mill engine by using the rotary table on its side. (But that's beside the point.)


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## joe d (Sep 12, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Time again for the Spindex.
> 
> Another thought...I'm wondering why I can't make the parts for the mill engine by using the rotary table on its side. (But that's beside the point.)



Zee That's just crazy talk. You NEED the spindexer. Keep going down that road and you'll be questioning the need for a second mill or lathe. Just stop that. Somebody's S.O. might read that... there are th_rulze !

Joe


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 13, 2009)

Joe...I edited my post. ;D


So we go...

Used the band saw instead of an angle grinder (thanks Vernon)...







Bonus...I got two chunks of cast iron...0.5 by about 0.6 by 4". Yay. No idea what can be done with them.

Then set it up and started milling. I must have been pretty straight in the bandsaw...within two passes at .005 I was half way across.






Done with one side...






Other side went the same way.

Went a whole lot better than I thought it would. Got a much better finish too but can't say why.

At this point I can clean up the edges and use it in the vise. But the vise takes away just over 2" of height. So I need to slot the base so I can clamp it to the vise table.

Only have two bolts and T-nuts that fit though. I'll have to see about getting/making(snicker) more. I don't think there's room for washers.

Now I have a brand spankin' new angle grinder with no use for it. Hm.


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 13, 2009)

So this is what I'm talking about...
Left bolt/nut is from clamping kit. Right one is from rotary table mounting kit.
Left is too big. Right one is close.






Pay no attention to that divot in the table. That was the work of a prior idiot who couldn't measure. (Don't say it Marv. :big A guy at work says it's proof the mill was used. Yeah...by an idiot.


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## mklotz (Sep 13, 2009)

It seems to me that a lot of faffing about could have been avoided if you had simply drilled and tapped the bottom of the Spindex and mounted a piece of plate (say, for chuckles, 1/2") to the Spindex. 

Sizing that plate to fit the vise would have been easier than mounting the Spindex on its side in the mill. Said plate, allowed to extend out from under the Spindex base, could then be drilled as required for mounting to the mill table.

Plus, with this arrangement, shims between the plate and the Spindex could be used to take out any misalignments of the Spindex axis to the bottom of the plate.

When you start using that Spindex in anger, be certain to always tighten the spindle lock before starting to machine lest thy part and the spindle be pulled outward, thus messing up your cut. DAMHIKT. In fact, I made a lock screw with a short handle on mine so I could lock it without using a tool - but we've covered that advice elsewhere. 

[Please notice that I didn't say anything about the metrically challenged Dummkopf who assaulted the table with his Bohrer. Hmm, the German term for the tip of the drill is Bohrkopf and the word for measure is messen. Perhaps we should term this miscreant a 'schlechtmessen Bohrkopf'. Was denkst du daran? Technical stuff always sounds so much better, so much more authoritative, in German.]


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## John S (Sep 13, 2009)

Marv,
My technical German is reserved to" Der titsufloppen mit der handucranken" which I am lead to believe is to ask directions to the nearest brothel ?

John S.


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## Blogwitch (Sep 13, 2009)

Zee,

Cap headed bolts.

Blogs


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## mklotz (Sep 13, 2009)

John Stevenson  said:
			
		

> My technical German is reserved to" Der titsufloppen mit der handucranken" which I am lead to believe is to ask directions to the nearest brothel ?



Du sprichst Deutsch wie Spanisch Kuh, John but no matter. German brothels have very high standards. Spare yourself the walk.

["That's the neighbourhood gone.............Sigh", indeed.]


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## John S (Sep 13, 2009)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Du sprichst Deutsch wie Spanisch Kuh, John but no matter. German brothels have very high standards. Spare yourself the walk.
> 
> ["That's the neighbourhood gone.............Sigh", indeed.]



LOL.

John s.


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 13, 2009)

There's a Spindex in here somewhere. Just had it. I know it was here.
Guess that's what happens when you 'faff' around. :big:



			
				mklotz  said:
			
		

> [Please notice that I didn't say anything about the metrically challenged Dummkopf who assaulted the table with his Bohrer.]



Ah but you did anyway. (And drat...I guess I should've used metric.) I wish my German was better. Particularly sad given my background. Oh...and where were you a few days ago when I needed you?! Faffing about?

I like the idea of the plate. But I'm wondering...if I'm going to drill the Spindex base...why not just drill through and clamp to the mill table? No plate then.

Anyway...the problem I'm having is drilling. Not enough Z in the mill. I'd have to do it with a hand-held. My drill press is too small and too crummy. And we both know what happens when I drill.

I wanted to mill the sides of the base so it would fit in the vise. The Dummkopf thinking it might be handy sometimes not to have to remove the vise. (I don't always listen to Dummkopf but he does try.)

So I'm thinking of getting some drill bits and cutting them short with...with...the angle grinder!

Thanks all.


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## PhiberOptix (Sep 13, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> So I'm thinking of getting some drill bits and cutting them short with...with...the angle grinder!



you can buy short drill bits

http://www.imperialsupplies.com/grp261.shtml

I do not know this company it was the first in the list when I gogle searched for short drill bits

Regards
Andy


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## mklotz (Sep 13, 2009)

> Oh...and where were you a few days ago when I needed you?! Faffing about?



Sir, gentlemen never faff! Only ugly old mechanics from Nottingham faff, though, truth be told, they do it rather well. Besides, you're supposed to puzzle stuff like this out when you do the design analysis. Then you come up with those ALL CAPS dicta in your shop notebook:

IF IT'S TOO DIFFICULT TO DRILL HOLES IN THE PART, DRILL THE HOLES IN SOME EASY PIECE AND ATTACH IT TO THE PART.



> Anyway...the problem I'm having is drilling. Not enough Z in the mill. I'd have to do it with a hand-held. My drill press is too small and too crummy. And we both know what happens when I drill.



That's the beauty of the plate idea. All you need to do is whack two threaded holes into the base so you can screw the plate fast with (counterbored) SHCS. Lay out the holes, punch 'em through with a hand drill and run a tap in.

Leave enough slop in the plate holes so you can align the Spindex axis to the plate edges when it's installed. 

Make one dimension of the plate narrow enough to fit in the vise and the other dimension long enough to project out enough to allow drilling holes for bolting to the mill table.

Oh, the short drills are called "screw machine drills"...

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-9242&PMPXNO=4362773&PARTPG=INLMK32

Save your angle grinder for making artworks from bed frames. (Ever tried to drill or hacksaw a bed frame?)


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 13, 2009)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Sir, gentlemen never faff!



Ah. Well then that just leaves us to determine if... :big:



			
				mklotz  said:
			
		

> IF IT'S TOO DIFFICULT TO DRILL HOLES IN THE PART, DRILL THE HOLES IN SOME EASY PIECE AND ATTACH IT TO THE PART.



A very good tip. Thanks.



			
				mklotz  said:
			
		

> All you need to do is whack



And the German for the technical word 'whack' is? (You've got engineering blood in you...you know what it means when some one says...'all you have to do is' :big: At work I immediately triple the quoted time.)

Yeah...if I go this route I should buy the 'screw machine drills'. Whacking (there's that technical term again) off a bit of shaft from the drill bit doesn't help...it's still too long and now there's nothing to hold.

Well enough faffing about...I'll 'denken' on this but in the meanwhile I have a Spindex I can hold in a vise...time to get back to the mill engine.

Thanks Marv. Great fun. And great help too.

Andy! Thanks. I looked at the site. It looks like it caters to middle-men. 5 in a package and no price.


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 13, 2009)

Spindex spindex...who's got the spindex. Ah! Here it is...

Success!

Thought I'd have a go at milling the slots. So here's the setup...






Making the slots isn't critical. Wanted to be near center. Wanted to be as level as I could. For a lark I used the level to check in Y. X was a little off but I didn't care.

Didn't go well at first. Was milling from the column side. Horrible sounds. Chattering. Whole table was being pulled in.

Tried the other side...same story.

Talked with a friend about it. (Initials are VM...a big help...both technically and mentally.) Thought about other ideas. (Gave people a chance to harass me :big: I mean...suggest valuable alternatives.) Seriously...very good ideas and help.

Getting late tonight...thought I have another go with the original thought anyway. It went well. Both sides. The only thing I can think of is that I brought the bit down as close as I could. It might have been another 1/8 inch but that seems to be enough to stop the chatter. Milled easily.

I milled dry and while I milled I had a vacuum cleaner going. That helped a lot to keep things clean and the dust out of the air.






Now I just need to deburr and do a little filing.
Then I'll have a Spindex. Yay!
Now I have no excuse. Yay!

Almost forgot to see if it works. That could've been sad...






And there's enough slop to square it. (And the Spindex could actually move a bit more towards the column. I'd rather have a washer in there but at best it'd have to be...uh...un-round.)

Blogs...thanks for the tip on the SHCS.

Wife took my camera. Permanently. But gave me hers. Seems to be okay.

Happy guy. I can go to work tomorrow.


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 13, 2009)

Rats. Not having a washer in there really bothers me.
Maybe I can put a pocket in...just for the washer.
Or maybe there's enough room to put a washer if I trim off a bit of it.

Well I'll think on it. Let the harassment begin...I mean valuable suggestions. :big:

Ah...that's probably not going to come across right...but you all know what I mean.


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## arnoldb (Sep 14, 2009)

Good going Zee 

Quick 'n dirty:
Clamp a washer in a bench clamp and file it to a 3/4 moon shape.
Or nip it up in a vice-grip pliers and grind it to said shape on the bench grinder.

Or more elegant:
Counterbore a suitable pocket - if you have enough spare "meat" on the indexer body and can reach in to do it.

Regards, arnold


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## John S (Sep 14, 2009)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Sir, gentlemen never faff! Only ugly old mechanics from Nottingham faff, though, truth be told, they do it rather well.



Less of the old please......

John S.


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## winklmj (Dec 24, 2010)

Reviving this old thread  I got the same indexer and a 5c collet set from Santa. That thing is huge on the X2 mill so I'll be doing something similar to make it easier to mount.


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## Foozer (Dec 24, 2010)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Rats. Not having a washer in there really bothers me.



You ever fix that washer issue. Brought to mind the one or two  times I drilled to close to a radius and had to fab a radius washer to let the head seat squarely. Quick and easy

Robert


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 24, 2010)

Go for it winklmj! And congrats on the present.

Robert- no...I haven't done anything about a washer yet. I haven't used the spindex since then. I like your suggestion.


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