# VFD Wiring



## Ghosty (Apr 25, 2020)

Hi All,
I am in the process of fitting a VFD and motor to my lathe, what type of wire is required for the VFD to motor connection? I have been told that you require special VFD wire for it, is this correct.

Cheers
Andrew


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## G54AUST (Apr 25, 2020)

'Evening Andrew.

Yes, there is a special shielded wire to use.   It's referred to as Shielded VFD cable.   Your local elec supplier (Middy's etc) should be able to supply in cut length to your requirements.   You'll also need the cable ends to allow EMI earthing etc.

If you local can't supply,  try Peter at Homann Designs down here in Melbourne.   _VERY_ helpful bloke.

What VFD did you choose ???


Kind Regards,

Trevor,
Melbourne,  AU.


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## Ghosty (Apr 25, 2020)

Trevor,
Thanks, I had already ordered the VFD motor cable just has not arrived yet.
Got this combo(VFD & motor combo) Found on Flebay, Item # 183795572871, Have set up on bench to setup VFD. 
Lathe that I have (al250) only has a top rpm of 1600, most work I do in under 25mm dia, so I would like to up that to around 3000rpm, this was the best way to go, I had a Seig S3 lathe that was 2500rpm, just a little small for some of the items that I swing at times.
Cheers
Andrew


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## ignator (Apr 26, 2020)

As long as the VFD to motor cable length is typically shorter then 6 feet (1.8m) you do not need special EMI cabling. I have 9 VFDs in my home shop, and I've never experienced EMI/EMC issues. These become a problem with long wires between the motor and VFD. You do not want to mount the VFD directly to the machine if there is vibration transmitted to the VFD during heavy cuts. The VFD components will suffer from vibration failure. I have all my VFD's mounted on the wall directly behind the machine.
If you're remoting start/stop/FWD/REV and speed control, again short lengths of wire limit EMI antenna length. The potentiometer connections may need shielding, it all depends on the resistance of the pot. Most VFDs call for a 1000 ohm pot. This is low enough resistance to limit RF interference, that and keeping it away from the power and motor connections.
I could not find your VFD using the auction number listing.


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## Ghosty (Apr 26, 2020)

ignator, Thank you for the info, I wont be pushing the setup to the max, just need to up the speed toaround 3000rpm max on the head stock. The VFD is mounted on the wall just above the lathe, wiring will be about 4 foot in length, and I will be using remote switching, Pot wiring is shielded. The item # is for AUS Bay site, You can try the below.
183795572871 | eBay
Cheers

Andrew


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## TonyM (Apr 26, 2020)

Remember if you do use proper shielded cable (not armoured which is ineffective at shielding), only connect the shielding to the earth at one end. I am not sure if it is better at the motor or at the VFD but it must not be both.


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## xpylonracer (Apr 26, 2020)

Like TonyM above I always believed the screen connection should only be at the VFD end but not at the motor, it is best to check what the VFD manufacturer recommends as some now state to connect the screen to earth/ground at both ends.

xpylonracer


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## ignator (Apr 26, 2020)

Ghosty said:


> ignator, Thank you for the info, I wont be pushing the setup to the max, just need to up the speed toaround 3000rpm max on the head stock. The VFD is mounted on the wall just above the lathe, wiring will be about 4 foot in length, and I will be using remote switching, Pot wiring is shielded. The item # is for AUS Bay site, You can try the below.
> 183795572871 | eBay
> Cheers
> 
> Andrew


Ebay has some sort of filter preventing me looking at this. I did try your auction number before from the AU eBay site, with the same results as your link, not found. I'm guessing that this can not be shipped to the States, and eBay is looking at my cookies, even when I sign out. 
I assume this is some sort of 50hz motor ~750watts with a matched China made VFD. My first VFDs 15 or so years ago were of the standard type. But I learned these did not allow low RPM operation and produced a cogging operation. For low speed high torque operation VFDs need to be of the Sensorless Vector design. All this really is, improved software that they charge more for. 
If your drive permits the display of motor RPM vs HZ. You key in the motor RPM to spindle ratio, into the correct program parameter, and turn that display on, you can direct read the spindle RPM. That works if you leave the belt setting to one configuration. I found this to be the middle speed setting, which will give torque over a wide range. Also most of my motors are 4 pole, so I allow double the HZ operation (in your case 100Hz) as the rotor in these small motors can run faster then the 2 pole speed.
The only combo packages I could find were for spindle motors (CNC router), or stationary belt sander motors.


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## awake (Apr 26, 2020)

A word of caution that you've likely already thought about: You are talking about nearly doubling the speed of your lathe. Are the bearings up for that? What about the chuck? Not all chucks can be safely spun that fast.


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## Ghosty (Apr 26, 2020)

ignator said:


> Ebay has some sort of filter preventing me looking at this. I did try your auction number before from the AU eBay site, with the same results as your link, not found. I'm guessing that this can not be shipped to the States, and eBay is looking at my cookies, even when I sign out.
> I assume this is some sort of 50hz motor ~750watts with a matched China made VFD. My first VFDs 15 or so years ago were of the standard type. But I learned these did not allow low RPM operation and produced a cogging operation. For low speed high torque operation VFDs need to be of the Sensorless Vector design. All this really is, improved software that they charge more for.
> If your drive permits the display of motor RPM vs HZ. You key in the motor RPM to spindle ratio, into the correct program parameter, and turn that display on, you can direct read the spindle RPM. That works if you leave the belt setting to one configuration. I found this to be the middle speed setting, which will give torque over a wide range. Also most of my motors are 4 pole, so I allow double the HZ operation (in your case 100Hz) as the rotor in these small motors can run faster then the 2 pole speed.
> The only combo packages I could find were for spindle motors (CNC router), or stationary belt sander motors.


Here is a photo of the VFD mounted on wall.  yes the new motor is 4 pole


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## Ghosty (Apr 26, 2020)

awake said:


> A word of caution that you've likely already thought about: You are talking about nearly doubling the speed of your lathe. Are the bearings up for that? What about the chuck? Not all chucks can be safely spun that fast.


Yes, this is some thing that I will keep an eye on, looking to replace the bearings with taper roller at some stage.


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## ME2 (Apr 27, 2020)

Just another thing to be aware of is that if you have a belt drive from the motor, it may whip and will tend to wear out quicker.  I found both of these to be an issue when l ran above base speed through my VFD.
Cam


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## dazz (Apr 27, 2020)

Hi
I replaced the Vee belt drive with a poly-vee to avoid problems with belts.    The second part of the drive still uses a poly-link belt.
Denford VFD retrofit.
If you can spare the cash, try and use an industrial grade VFD.   Once you get over the one-off damage to the bank balance, it is all good news.

Dazz


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## Shopgeezer (Apr 27, 2020)

I am looking at this VFD because I like the fact the control board snaps out and can be remotely mounted. It also has a pot built in. 






						2.2kW VFD Drive Inverter, 220VAC Single-Phase Variable Frequency Drive VFD Speed Controller AT1-2200X 2.2kW for 3-Phase AC Motor: Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement
					

2.2kW VFD Drive Inverter, 220VAC Single-Phase Variable Frequency Drive VFD Speed Controller AT1-2200X 2.2kW for 3-Phase AC Motor: Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement



					www.amazon.ca
				




This motor is also attractive for price. 






						Hallmark Industries MA0515E AC Motor, 1.5 hp, 1725 RPM, 3PH/60 hz, 208-230/460V AC, 56C/TEFC, with Foot, SF 1.15, Insul F, Inverter Duty, Steel (Pack of 1): Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement
					

Hallmark Industries MA0515E AC Motor, 1.5 hp, 1725 RPM, 3PH/60 hz, 208-230/460V AC, 56C/TEFC, with Foot, SF 1.15, Insul F, Inverter Duty, Steel (Pack of 1): Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement



					www.amazon.ca
				




But I am getting scared a bit from the various subteties I am reading about on this forum. Low speed torque, vibration, cogging, compatibility of the VFD software with the motor, motor design problems and so on won't reveal themselves until the units are on the bench and the money is spent. Are there any hints from the ads about compatibbility of these products. Contacting the vendor is useless. The sell a big list of products and don't know anything about any of them.


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## Iampappabear (Apr 27, 2020)

This might be the place for this we question.  I have often pondered putting one VFD on the wall and running all my machine from this one source, just need to have a plugin potentiometer at each machine.  Rev counters are real cheap these days on eBay so every machone could have one.  Thoughts anyone?


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## xpylonracer (Apr 27, 2020)

Only worth doing if all motors have the same FLC and you want all characteristics to be the same for all machines.
Also in addition to a plug-in pot you will need stop/start provision at each machine.

xpylonracer


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## Iampappabear (Apr 27, 2020)

Hmm.... good point, my thoughts were to install VFD to suit largest MTR but then I guess no real protection for smaller MTRs.  I have individual VFDs on each of my machines but was discussing this with someone who has 5 (dropping down to 3) Bridgeport mills in a row and he only ever uses one at a time.


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## ignator (Apr 27, 2020)

Shopgeezer said:


> I am looking at this VFD because I like the fact the control board snaps out and can be remotely mounted. It also has a pot built in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shopgeezer: I've never had a problem with any of the 9 VFDs I've installed except 1, and that was off eBay from a China seller with the Huyang (can't recall spelling), where the first one had a rectifier capacitor blow up, so I returned that, and they sent a replacement that sits on the shelf, as a memory to not buy that namebrand.
My point about cogging was from the first VFDs I purchased that were Teco FM100. They are not of the vector design. 
I see your in Canada, I don't know if this vendor will ship there, but they have packaged motors and drives. They are in New Jersey. This package is a 1.5HP motor with a 2HP  Teco 510, that is a vector type drive;


			https://dealerselectric.com/Package-NAT1-5-18-56-and-L510-202-H1-U.asp
		

I've also had good luck buying used drives off eBay, BUT make sure they are 200V class, as the 400V class will not work in a home shop. Also make sure you can download a manual, as there are some vendors that remove manuals from their web site that are no longer in production (e.g. Rockwell Automation formerly Allen Bradley). And there are some larger drives that will not work unless powered from 3 phase, as they detect phase loss. Again the manual will tell you if this feature can be turned off. Once you get above 3 HP VFD size, you need to derate it to half the horsepower, this is from the limit of the input rectifier diodes, where powering off single phase can exceed their current capacity. I have a 7.5HP lathe, that I'm using a 10HP VFD to power and have never had an issue, as I never do crazy depth of cuts with high feed rate, and high spindle RPM. I have a table saw this is also 7.5HP and powered with a 10HP drive. Otherwise the Milling machines, small lathe, drill presses, bandsaws are all 1-2HP size motors. I've removed single phase motors and replaced them with 3phase because of the variable speed operation. On a drill press these are the sweetest thing when you can dial up the spindle RPM to match the SFPM of the cutting tool. Same with the lathe.
I have a VFD powering one motor from the early 1940s on my horizontal mill. In the early days of VFDs, the edge rate of the square wave pulses were so fast that they caused large voltages to develop from the inductance. This problem is gone as they control the edge rate on drives, to  minimize the problem. If you have an old motor, and the insulation is of very degraded quality, you may end up with a short of a winding to chassis. But that old of a motor probably would fail with your normal power input. 
The links to Amazon for motor and VFDs looks like a good setup. The inverter duty is mainly better insulation quality on the motor windings. 
The other quality of VFDs, they produce a soft start, so there is no locked rotor amp surge. As well they control both acceleration and deceleration speed. I set up the deceleration to coast to stop. It can decelerate fast enough to enable a thread on lathe chuck to spin off. The default I've seen in my various drives is 5 seconds accel/decel.


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## Shopgeezer (Apr 27, 2020)

Ignator that package deal looks great but in US dollars so a big hit on currency exchange as well as very expensive shipping. The nice thing about Amazon is the free shipping. I’m tempted to go with that motor and VFD deal. I can buy local for three times that much. Probably smart to do that for the support and warranty but just too much cash.


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## ignator (Apr 27, 2020)

Shopgeezer said:


> Ignator that package deal looks great but in US dollars so a big hit on currency exchange as well as very expensive shipping. The nice thing about Amazon is the free shipping. I’m tempted to go with that motor and VFD deal. I can buy local for three times that much. Probably smart to do that for the support and warranty but just too much cash.


I think the Amazon motor and VFD will work perfect. Your just not going to need support. And if you get this installed and it fails within the Amazon time period, you either send it back as junk, or get a replacement. But It looks like a quality unit.
The photo you have of your drive, I could not see the model number. I was going to look that up to see if it is a vector drive, and how good the manual is, and try point to programming parameters that enable the spindle speed readout direct on the LED panel display. It may not have this.

So assuming you integrate this with your existing lathe switches, that may be the only difficult part. The ONE RULE is never switch the output of the VFD to the motor, EVER. It is hard wired from the VFD to motor terminals. All control is either from the front panel of the VFD, or a remote start stop FWD/REV switch box. 
The reason is if you interrupt the connection when there is a large current flow, the inductance from the motor creates a huge surge voltage that can damage the transistor switches in the VFD.
The lathe's switches can be integrated to do this function of controlling discrete input connections of the VFD.
As a side note, I grew up in North Dakota, I remember the exchange rate being the other way, $0.82 Canadian to $1.00USD. That NAFTA trade agreement worked well.


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## Shopgeezer (Apr 27, 2020)

As far as I can see from the ad the vfd is model AT1-2200X and the manufacturer part no/reference is Vikyehonmx4z17g.  That is all I can get from the ad. I will apply to the family financial control officer and send in the order.

ND is 2 hours south of us. There is a receiving company just across the border that allows you to send something you buy in the US to them for cheap shipping. We then run down and pick it up ourselves. Better than paying the extortion prices for delvery by UPS or FedEx.

Many years ago our fearless leaders threw millions of tax dollars into developing the tar sands up north. Wanted to turn us into northern Sheiks. Look like geniuses now don't they.  Tar sands oil actually went negative in price last week. No one wants that crap, it is hard to refine. Our dollar sank to $0.73 as a result. Too bad they didn't throw all that money into fuel cell development.

Thanks for the info. I would be interested in anything you can look up on the vfd.


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## ignator (Apr 27, 2020)

Shopgeezer said:


> As far as I can see from the ad the vfd is model AT1-2200X and the manufacturer part no/reference is Vikyehonmx4z17g.  That is all I can get from the ad. I will apply to the family financial control officer and send in the order.
> 
> ND is 2 hours south of us. There is a receiving company just across the border that allows you to send something you buy in the US to them for cheap shipping. We then run down and pick it up ourselves. Better than paying the extortion prices for delvery by UPS or FedEx.
> 
> ...


DARN! Further research shows this to be a Huanyang VFD in disguise. I can't find a manual online. I would NOT buy this VFD. 
Here is a guy that installed a smaller watt unit that looks the same:

The manual is too abreviated, so I assume it is not a vector drive. Nor has the ability to display spindle RPM on the LED readout. Question is has the vendor made enough improvements to trust spending money on this.


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## kvom (Apr 27, 2020)

I have a pretty heft 3000 lb lathe with a 4000 rpm max, and I haven't needed to exceed 1500 for a good long while.  I'd probably only do so with the collet chuck.

My Bridgeport VFD is from Automation Direct.  It can show putative RPM as I have input a factor which is multiplied by the frequency.  The factor was determined from the belt ratio.  It's a GS2 and has the pop-out control panel that I mount on the mill.  The VFD itself is in a NEMA box on the wall safe from pollution.

The VFD does not like low speeds with long runs.  I need back gear for that.  For a lathe a braking resistor would be a must-have IMO.


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## dazz (Apr 27, 2020)

Hi
My Denford Viceroy lathe is fitted with an ABB industrial vfd.  My other lathe is fitted with a Yaskawa V1000 3.8kW industrial vfd.  The V1000 series is available in a wide range of power outputs.  







I abide by my own advice.      If you can, I recommend buying a Yaskawa or similar industrial vfd. The quality, performance and value for money is far ahead of cheap Chinese electronics. The UK seems to be the cheapest place to buy Yaskawa.  USA prices are up to double.  

Dazz


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## Shopgeezer (Apr 28, 2020)

I found a Yaskawa V1000 used on Ebay for a good price. But as Ignator said you have to watch the input voltage. On closer examination this one turned out to be 300-480 v input. There is a dizzying variety of cheap VFDs on Ebay and Amazon. All of them could ultimately be made by Huang for all we know. I am trying to use customer ratings and reviews to sort them out. This one seems about the best of the lot. 



			https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07ZJNK7QH/ref=cm_sw_r_em_taa_q05PEbKMVSM0G
		


I guess you just have to pay your money and take your chances.


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## bruedney (Apr 28, 2020)

My friend Joco_NZ has an AT4 vfd on his mill and the manual shows that it has pretty basic features whereas I have a HY02 (Huanyang clone) vfd for my Bridgeport mill (yet to be fitted) which appears to be quite feature rich.

Whilst I have had mine running I can't comment on performance yet Joco seems quite happy with his.

Regards
Bruce


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## kf2qd (Apr 28, 2020)

What horsepower is your lathe? The unit from Automation direct is probably sized on the small size, a size or 2 bigger might work better,. My employer sells WEG so some of what I am saying comes from some of the training I have been through. Depending on use, light, Standard or Heavy duty - Light duty is running under light load and few starts/stops - in other words,when it runs it run for while and doesn't start stop more than a couple times an hour. Standard duty starts a moderate load and starts 5 times an hour, heavy load means it starts under full load with a large inertial load. 
If you are going to start/stop more often it helps to go one size bigger on the VFD as has larger capacitors and can stop a slightly larger load. Some VFDs are fitter with the extra electronics to connect a braking resistor, which also has to be sized for the braking load. A larger Resistor dissipates more heat, and allows more stopping and more rapid stopping. The VFD reduces the current as the frequency goes down. Reduced Current means reduced torque. If your VFD has an option for Sensorless Vector Mode it may give better performance at lower speed, but anything less than 20 Hz may not be usable. You can change pulleys to lower the speed of the lathe, and you may be able  to run the motor at a higher frequency, though there is some current reduction as the frequency goes over 60Hz. which will give you a wider usable  speed range.


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## dazz (Apr 28, 2020)

Hi

I went through a detailed selection process for my own application and ended up with a Yaskawa vfd for my latest retrofit.  It is not the only good brand of industrial equipment but they are available in most countries.  

I would steer away from used vfd's because the key components have a life expectancy.  A used industrial unit is probably being replaced because it is near the end of life, or it is faulty.  

If you download the Yaskawa V1000, you will find the part numbers for the different models.  There are 13x single phase models with power ratings starting at 0.2kW.  That many models makes it even harder to find a used vfd that matches your requirements.

Industrial vfd's are not plug and play.  They have a vast range of parameters to set.  Be prepared to study the manual in detail.

Dazz


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## Shopgeezer (Apr 28, 2020)

My lathe currently has a 1 hp motor. The three phase motor from Amazon is 1.5 hp and the vfd is 2.2 kw, about 3 hp rating.  It all looks good on paper. Start and stop frequency is interesting. I suppose like most home lathes this one gets very light duty. You face the part, turn it to size, drill a hole in the end, ream the hole, thread a tap into it, part it off and call it a piston.  Find out that it is too small for the cylinder  because you misread the micrometer and do it all again. There is some starting and stoping in all that. Very light cuts however.


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## fabricator (Apr 28, 2020)

I have several of these durapulse VFD's from automation direct. They have excellent support and the instructions are in actual english.


			https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/general_purpose/gs3-21p0


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## ignator (Apr 29, 2020)

Shopgeezer said:


> My lathe currently has a 1 hp motor. The three phase motor from Amazon is 1.5 hp and the vfd is 2.2 kw, about 3 hp rating.  It all looks good on paper. Start and stop frequency is interesting. I suppose like most home lathes this one gets very light duty. You face the part, turn it to size, drill a hole in the end, ream the hole, thread a tap into it, part it off and call it a piston.  Find out that it is too small for the cylinder  because you misread the micrometer and do it all again. There is some starting and stoping in all that. Very light cuts however.


My small lathe has a 1HP motor. I leave the belts settings so a 60Hz motor would drive it at 390RPM per the existing chart. I do all sorts of tapping and die threading without ever changing over to back gear now with a Mitsubishi FR-E720-110-NA drive I got off eBay a few years ago. As I said in a previous post this replaced the Teco Flux Master 100. That old drive was NOT a vector type, not only would it cog at low speeds, but also stall out. I've done threading without backgear and could rotate the lathe spindle down to 3RPM with no stall. In tap and die sizes up to 7/16", but I know could go larger without using the back gear. I did just break a 8mm tap the other day, it was almost to the last thread, I had to put a bigger tap wrench on it part ways through. I'm blaming it on a dull tap, as I was doing mystery aluminum (could have been 2024 or 7075, and not 6061). My point is, it will develop high torque at very low spindle RPM for threading. And with the VFD set for max 120Hz operation, my spindle at this setting is over 750RPM. If I need faster, I can change the belts to exceed 2200 RPM.
On my vertical mill, a Wells-Index, I have a Hitachi SJ200. The belt setting on that are for 1300RPM when driven from a 60Hz powered motor. I was just using it with the VFD driving 300RPM to a 1 inch 2 flute endmill machining cast iron, that was very hard on a C-clamp that never had the foot where the clamp screw swivel meets up with flat, as it still had the casting pattern draft. So every time you clamped things, it would swing over at an angle. I fixed 14 clamps of 10 inch and 8 inch size last night. I was machining about .060 material off. It is so easy to dial in the spindle speed on these drives, as they both have the feature.
If you have to pay full price for a quality VFD, I would do that before buying an unknown drive, as in post #25 that Amazon link looks again like the same Huanyang  design and not a vector design. Huanyang eBay  auctions used to indicate they purchased the processors from Hitachi, as a puffing statement, which may be true, but probably 25 year old technology. Full price from a wholesale seller is maybe 2X to 2.5X of that cheap Huanyang  drive. But when it out lasts you, and does what is needed, you'll be happy.
On a side story, I purchased a 1HP motor and drive from Dealers Electric ~25 years ago. This was a 1HP 3phase motor, inverter duty, and the Teco FM100 drive. The shaft on the motor was too large, so I removed the rotor, machined the shaft down to the metric diameter that fit my sheave Vbelt pulley. As this was for 2 vbelt diameters for the primary motor to jackshaft speed reduction. So after about 15 years, the shaft on the motor broke off. It was from vibration as the cast iron sheave was never concentric to the vbelt diameters. And when I did the shaft diameter reduction, I left a sharp inside edge on the shaft, as that is where it snapped off. At the time I didn't have a radius ground on the lathe bit. I've replaced that motor with a used one off eBay, and had to make a new mount for it, as it was a C-face mount motor, and had no foot base. My small lathe is a 10x24 Jet and 1HP is plenty. So part of the repair was making the sheave motor shaft to vbelt grooves concentric. I also changed over from rubber vbelts to the link style belts. Much quieter and smoother operation.

So ebay search with any drive of 220, 230, 240 selected, and only selecting known manufactures for 2HP I get the following search:








						VFD | eBay
					

Buy and sell electronics, cars, fashion apparel, collectibles, sporting goods, digital cameras, baby items, coupons, and everything else on eBay, the world's online marketplace



					www.ebay.com
				



I hope this link on your computer, and selecting Canadian item location produces an affordable drive. I could only sort on North American location.
The only down side, is if the seller does not properly indicate the voltage of the drive, you will never see the listing. If you can't find the full manual online before purchase, don't buy it. Also verify the full model number of the sellers listing to the manual, and validate it is the correct voltage input.
post edit: Also search for 3-10HP motors, there may be a deal available.


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