# A Table Engine Tale



## Ramon (Nov 7, 2011)

This project, a Waller Table engine from circa 1880, began around 1998 when the original model, designed by Anthony Mount, was published in Engineering in Miniature.  

It was decided to make it one third larger which would give a flywheel of 12" diameter and an overall height including plinth of just under 17". 






It's all made from spare material - or should that read material going spare  - obtained whilst I was still working. Apart from the flywheel, which had the rim milled from a flame cut blank and the spoke holes put in at work all other machining has been done at home. Work has been carried out in fit's and starts over this time - up until a couple of years ago it was just parts languishing in a box but since then it's been erected and slowly worked on at various stages. As such it's very much been an 'infil' project then but hopefully it won't be too long before it's up and running. Currently work is ongoing on the motion gear with the last week seeing some progress on the piston/conrod/big end parts. I don't have too many pics but here are a few that will give some idea of work to date





The base and entablature are machined from steel plate. The pads for the columns are separate. Turned from square stock they have spigots that locate holes in the base and are held in place with Loctite then the 'fillets' are applied using JB Weld epoxy steel to give a 'casting' effect. Likewise the hold down bolt pads. All edges are machined/filed at an angle in an attempt to simulate a draft angle.





The columns are straightforward turnings all the radii formed with form cutters made from ground flat stock.





The cylinder is a composite one with all parts made from a rather tough cast iron cut from a redundant power press baseplate. 










The valve face was fixed to the cylinder using a couple of 8 BA caphead screws and plenty of JB Weld. This stuff has great strength and a high temperature resistance that will easily take dry steam though this engine will probably only ever run on air. 





JB is a bit runny and slumps a bit so plenty has to be applied but once cleaned up after twenty four hours curing the effect is reasonable enough





I guess that will give an idea of it's early days - I'll post some more later if you would like and gradually bring it to date.

Hope this is of interest to someone

Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Nov 7, 2011)

Cool Ramon!  I like it!

Keep it coming!

Dave


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## tel (Nov 7, 2011)

Yes, beautiful work Ramon - keep the flow going!


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## lazylathe (Nov 7, 2011)

Looks like it is going to be a great engine when completed!!

Love the use of JB Weld for the fillets, very original!'

Keep the pics coming as you go along!!

Andrew


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## MachineTom (Nov 7, 2011)

Nice work, well thought out, a great piece for sure when complete, garage jewelry. Look at Devcon epoxy it has iron dust in it, plenty thick compared to JB weld, can be milled and tapped.


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## Ramon (Nov 9, 2011)

Hi guy's, thanks for the kind comments. 

I have used Devcon Epoxy Steel Tom, you're quite right it is much thicker and is infact what I used on the flywheel spokes and hub. These areas are as yet unfinished hence the rather rough look. JB Weld, which can also be machined, has a slight advantage in having a higher temperature resistance but having said that this will only ever get run on air. (It's also a lot less expensive!)

The pics of the crankshaft outrigger pedestal bearing show the 'test piece' to see if it would give a reasonable impression of a casting. I was quite pleased with the result and am sure that once painted the effect overall will be convincing enough




The base and pedestal are cast iron and the bolt pads are steel

This is the initial 'gluing up' - perhaps that might be better phrased as the initial bonding - the base is held by two c'sink screws





The finished item and the bearing caps made in the same fashion. The bearing is a split one but is unsoldered at this stage





I've found this simple 'self pressurising' clamp made from a piece of 10SWG (1/8) piano wire to be the ideal thing when soldering the two halves together





The crank web was milled from solid rather than adding the small web by soldering. 





The milling was done on the rotary table after drilling and reaming the two holes for shaft and pin. The part is not just held by one clamp BTW - which is a definite 'no no' - but is located on a pin in the sub plate.









After finishing the web was Loctited and cross pinned to the shaft and the crankpin done likewise. The flywheel was found, at this stage, to have a slight wobble so it, being too big to swing in the Myford, was set up on the mill and the bore enlarged. A keywayed sleeve located by two grub screws fits over the shaft which, after the valve eccentric position has been finalised will also be Loctited.

About this time last year after eventually erecting the box of bits it was exhibited as work in progress at a local show. After that event I spent about a month on it drilling and tapping most of the holes and finishing off the port face and the steam chest parts and finally making the cross head standards to bring it to the stage as shown at the start of the thread. The standards are steel with the guides made from cast iron, let in and fixed with JBW. The slots were milled after bonding and the lower faces then brought square to the slots.




The steam inlet boss was silver soldered to the steam chest and the steam exhaust manifold though threaded was JB'd to make it a permanent part of the steam chest.

Another year and another show and a decision to try to at least have it running for next year has seen some more work in the last few days so the next 'instalment' I guess really will be 'work in progress'  Tomorrow - if thing's go right I should have the piston coupled up to the big end and something moving at last if only by hand power ;D

Regards - Ramon


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## pete (Nov 9, 2011)

Ramon,
That's a huge amount of very well done work. Your calculator must be getting a real work out. Anthony Mount has the rare ability to pick very nice looking, unusual engines, and also work out and design all the details to end up with a functional engine. Your bar stock parts will be hard to tell from the actual castings other than they will look a lot better. IMO, That's going to be a really beautiful engine when it's finished.

Pete


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 9, 2011)

Beautiful "Work in progress".---Brian


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## SBWHART (Nov 10, 2011)

Great work Ramon

Stew


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## steamer (Nov 10, 2011)

Looks great Ramon.  Castings are sometimes more of a pain to deal with than bar stock.

The setting up of the cylinders on my launch engine took a while and involved lots of lead shims and wedges to get the first cut...got better after that....but was a chore.
Dave


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## GWRdriver (Nov 10, 2011)

I really do love to see projects done this way. It takes time and effort and bother but the results are worth it IMHO . . . this is my kind of model engineering. Well done so far!


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## danstir (Nov 10, 2011)

Great job and some different techniques that I can add to my "maybe this will work" list.


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## peatoluser (Nov 10, 2011)

Great project to follow. I like your piano wire clamp. Another technique to add to the armoury.
there's always something to learn on this forum. thanks for posting

peter


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## Ramon (Nov 15, 2011)

Hi guys, thanks for all your kind comments - it's nice to hear that some feel that there is something worth bearing in mind for their future use too.

Regarding the build up of this engine let me say that whilst I have no hang ups about spending money on my hobbies (and I certainly have no desire of appearing to be controversial here) sometimes I do question the 'value' of some castings, their cost seemingly out of all proportion to their size and complexity and in many case their actual 'need' to be superfluous. In most cases I'm convinced, and I'm sure many will feel likewise, that with some considered thought, a careful bit of machining and the help of something like the JB Weld most can be replaced convincingly to a reasonable degree not only at a considerable saving but to a high degree of satisfaction to boot.

Following on from the previous post my best laid plans began to go awry when my wife felt my interests would be better served on a shopping trip to Tescos than in the workshop  I tried to convince her otherwise but you know how it is : .... It seemed to go downhill from that point but at last I'm pleased to tell the piston is moving up and down in sequence with the big end 

Here's some pics of the progress





The 27.0mm bore was honed using a three stone brake hone to smooth out the machining marks to leave a uniform 'scratched' surface 





The piston is .05mm down on the bore and the packing is square section PTFE yarn. On previous engines I have found this to give an excellent seal but with very low friction - certainly if the engine is only ever run for display purposes and with a very long working life. The groove for the packing is .05 wider than the nominal section and the depth .05 less. (section in this case is 3/16" square)





First job was to make some radius forming cutters for the various 'ball ended' sections. These were made from Gauge Plate (Ground Flat Stock) (GFS from now on). The very slight top rake was milled on the angle set by eye but about 2-3 degreees and the radius milled in by an appropriate sized end mill plunge cut downwards moving inwards .5mm at a time to ensure a good finish. Side rake was milled and backing off on the sides done by file. Heated to a good bright red they were quenched in oil and left un-tempered. The only 'sharpening' carried out was to run a flat stone across the top rake. I have no T&C grinder just a couple of offhands 8" and 5"





This is the lower cross beam that spaces the con rods in the initial stages. The three cross holes have been drilled in situ on the lathe using a cross slide drilling attachment.





Forming the central boss using one of the cutters. The front edges of each side of the cutter is set at centre height which because of the top rake brings the outer radius slightly below. Obviously a true ball is not formed but it's close enough for the task in hand





The tapers were cut next to be followed by forming the ball ends (no pic of that op) but this is how they looked before final parting off









Parted off and ready for finishing off





They were held in a split collet quickly turnd from a scrap of ali the small end resting in a smaller hole 'socket' and the part gripped by the cental ball. The radius cutter was brought gently in to play to finish the ends.

I have just hit the post button instead of preview : so perhaps abit more later tonight

Hope this is of interest 
Regards Ramon


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## maverick (Nov 15, 2011)

I too am a fan of form tools. It may seem like extra work but once the tool is finished the parts appear
 almost like magic. The part you turned has a clean sharp appearance that will complement the rest 
 of a very nice engine. Great job on a fantastic build.

 Regards,
 Mike


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## Ramon (Nov 15, 2011)

Here's a bit more of an update but this time I'll try not to hit the post button too soon 

I decided to make the coupling rods composite rather than try to turn the whole thing from solid. It was much easier this way and a lot less swarf to be made. The little ends were turned using another radius tool to shape the ends then held in the dividing head on the mill to mill the flats and the cutouts. It was then returned to the lathe for the spigot to be turned (4.0mm) and parted off. 






The bearings were split and soldered then set on a spigot for milling the rebate. This was the first time I had used this method and wasn't quite ready for the central raised taper caused by the cutting angle on the bottom of the slotting drill to be so prominent. It was quickly solved by cutting the radius in a series of steps one turn at a time from one side then reversing but making the first move a half turn then full turns to double up the number of flats. The image is not very good but should give an idea





The lip on one side was milled off to the centre line then it was rotated 5 degrees for facing to length and applying the taper.





The rods were turned from 8.0mm stock down to 6.5mm and each end tapered by two cuts at 1 degree then a half degree. By leaving the central portion flat it could be turned round in the collet chuck for the other end. The bellied shape was put in using a very smooth file and emery finishing off with wet and dry with paraffin (kerosene) as a lube followed by a final rub with a Garryflex abrasive block.





The ends were Loctited in using 638 high strength retainer and a single pin put in just to be sure. I took several pics of this op in case anyone is interested in making pinning invisible - well as near as you can - but heres the result - the R/H one is after the initial filing and the L/H after emerying. If you'd like a fuller description let me know.




Heres the cross beam and big end after pinning too. This has been pinned in the centre of the boss. The pin doesn't go right through, just into the far wall of the other side of the hole.





Finally there a set of parts to fit





Which has brought the engine to this state









Today has been spent making studs for the valve chest so tomorrow work begins on the valve gear. The new compressor has arrived though so time needs to be spent on plumbing that in which will interupt the flow abit.

Back a bit later then, in the meantime I hope I'm not overdoing this - if I am please give me a shove in the right direction, I won't be offended 

Regards - Ramon.


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## AndyB (Nov 15, 2011)

Hi Ramon,

Absolutely fantastic as always! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Please don't ask if anything you produce is 'of interest', we all hang on your every word! Thm: Thm:

Ideas spread from your pictures and descriptions!

I use old files for form tools, held against the handrest like using a woodchisel. Nothing as big as this though but similar to the form around the cylinder. Just grind the end level with a bit of rake then grind out the shape from each front corner which gives a left and a right hand tool. For those who want to try it, for god's sake remember to put a handle on the file, the tang will take no prisoners if it catches. Keep a low speed and good pressure on the workpiece; cuts beautifully!

Looking forward to the next installment!

(Miranda says if you are too slow we will come and visit! :big

PS for everybody else. That's worse than the Jehovah's Witnesses! :big: *discussion* *discussion* *discussion* *discussion* *discussion* *discussion*

Andy


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## pete (Nov 15, 2011)

Ramon,
If anything, Your underposting in my opinion. High quality work speaks for itself and I can look at yours all day.

Pete


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## peatoluser (Nov 16, 2011)

Yes, I'd certainly like a fuller description of how you 'invisibly' pin, as it were. mine nearly always seem to be visible, especially when I don't want them to.
thanks in advance

peter


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## bearcar1 (Nov 16, 2011)

Ramon, that is absolutely, without a doubt, some beautiful work. Please do not think for a moment that you are over-posting. Lots of pictures and a running editorial is what makes things interesting. I enjoy fine work as much as the next guy, but there is just something lacking when someone posts one single picture and basically says "here's what I built". However, actually reading about the trials and tribulations of what a builder had to go through in order to reach the final destination is, shall we say, priceless. You have certainly given me some new, ways of doing things, to think about. Thank you.

BC1
Jim


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## Ramon (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi guy's , Once again thank you for your kind and encouraging comments. I'm not so sure I can live up to some expectations (Andy) but I do take on board what you are all saying. 

Let me say though - I'm no 'expert' and certainly no academic but I do have a lot of years under the belt making various kinds of models but have no vast 'mine of information' ready to relate, just how I've gone about something. Seems like that can be of use to some so am quite happy, infact more than happy, to share it with anyone interested. I don't belong to any model engineering club (please don't read anything 'political' or sinister in that - just choice) so this and the Model Engineer site is my only form of social contact with those of similar bent outside of a few close ME friends.

On that note then Peter - pinning

Using these rods as an example but it applies just as well on flat surfaces ....






First drill a hole for the pin. Do this with two/three differing sizes the last drill taking out only a few thou. here it was .040 - .055 - .0625 for a 1/16 silver steel pin. To be as invisible as possible turn the pin from similar steel to the part as silver steel will show as a very slightly shinier area on mild steel parts after a while. The important thing is _*not*_ to deburr the hole - not even slightly. If you do so it *will* leave a witness.

Make the pin long enough to hold and Loctite both the hole and the pin (603 or 638 high strength retainer)





Tap the pin in until it bottoms out supporting it on softer material





Clip the pin close to the workpiece and gently peen the pin to swell it in the hole. Note 'gently' - don't peen this over like a rivet as there is no need to and you may dent the work piece. (I should point out that I forgot to peen this particular one and it still worked out okay but I would always give it a few taps to ensure the pin fits the _top of the hole_ as tightly as possible.





Next pull a layer of masking tape over the protruding pin





Then using a fine file, file the pin until the file just rubs the masking tape





Remove the tape and apply felt tip pen / marking blue





Gently file the pin keeping a wary eye out for marking the ink as here





Then file to flair in with the surrounding surface





Finally finish with some worn emery. The duller surface on the rest of the rod is the result of using wet and dry and Garryflex abrasive blocks which produes a very smooth finish





This method works just as well on flat surfaces though the final filing has to be done very carefully to avoid scratching the surrounding area - I prefer to use a flat needle file for that with the very tip rounded off with a stone to prevent corner 'dig ins'. By pushing the end of the file flat down on top of the pin with the thumb of one hand while bending the file up slightly - a needle file will flex sufficiently - and apply filing motion with the other in very short strokes it is surprising just how much control you have in taking the pin down to the surface.

As said - can't stress it enough - if you debur the hole - no matter how carefully - you will get a witness. A little black circle or part of a circle that will constantly yell at you that you really shouldn't have deburred the hole 

If it's a threaded hole that needs to be reclaimed or disguised it will not work if the thread comes to the top of the hole. No matter how much you peen it there will always be the start of the helix. The only way to totally disguse it is to open it up and plug it as above. 

If its done right the only evidence should be a slight discolouration if the materials are different.

Hope that will help improve your pinning Peter 

The compressor was plumbed in without half the hassle envisaged so I was able to make a good start on the valve parts - more later

Hope this is useful to others too

Regards - Ramon


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## steamer (Nov 16, 2011)

Ramon,

If anyone says your overdueing this...send them to me...

You just keep doing what you have been doing!...it's awesome!

 :bow:

Dave


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## peatoluser (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks for the tutorial. Much appreciated. I can see where i've been going wrong. As a matter of habit I always de-burr holes, even if everso slightly.
So I now know what not to do in future.
liked the use of masking tape as a quick way of homing in on the two surfaces when filing.
strangely enough I do use marker pen when filing, but only when I'm filinging two or more flat surfaces to the same size. Never gave it a thought to use it when filing pins down. as you point out, it gives a good indication of when to change files.
thanks again 
peter


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## ref1ection (Nov 17, 2011)

Very nice work. You can never give too long a description of such interesting ways of doing things. The way you did your little end bearings is of particular interest, with the wedge holding them in. I've never seen that before and found it an interesting alternative.

Ray


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## kustomkb (Nov 17, 2011)

Wow, that sure is some nice work!

Thanks for the detailed descriptions. That wedge sure is a nice touch.


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## Ramon (Nov 17, 2011)

Glad it was of use Peter it certainly gives a good result with a bit of care.

The bearing design came from a book I have - one of those lucky but 'rare' finds that sometimes happens when you least expect it. 'Machine Design, Construction and Drawing' has many examples of various parts of engines both steam and early IC. The original A. Mount design appears to have no means of holding the bushes in but I rather liked the idea of the double flanged top portion and the single flange on the lower. The tapered wedge is as shown in the book too but the inner hole to allow the pin to prevent loss is a guess as to how its done. It certainly works though, the bearings are nice and tightly held in place. BTW the actual width across the outer little end frame is 11.0mm (.433) the cavity is 8.0mm (.312) and the bearing hole size is 4.0mm (.157).

Heres a better shot of them fitted, the inner faces have the full flanges ie the lower bearing is inserted from the inner side of the rod.





The valve parts are progressing well  - a few more pics in a day or so if all goes well.

Once again thanks for the kind comments

Regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (Nov 22, 2011)

Work continues albeit a bit slower than hoped for but the valve gear is in and moving smoothly and freely. The bearings for the layshaft that operates the valve rod were made today and I took a few pics of the sequence of ops. Now I hope I'm not insulting anyone by showing this basic procedure but I do know that many struggle with soldering so hope this may be of use to someone - if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs here I guess you'll have to look away now 
The actual bearings are reasonably small - 10 x 9 x 7 mm with a 4mm hole and the sides slotted to locate on the pedestals. I find it much easier to machine the outside to a hole than to put the hole in after the part is finished. That way if there is a slight error creeping in, by making small cuts there is plenty of time to make allowances.

They began by cutting off a short length of bronze from a short slab acquired from somewhere at some stage in years past. It was nice to machine and I would guess it's closer to gunmetal than bronze by the way it machined -it's certainly not 'brass'. It was machined nearly to size in one length then cut in half for finishing to keep any slight discrepancies to a minimum. The thickness (above and below the faces to be soldered were made a uniform but well over size dimension - in this case 6.0mm





Each piece was cut in half for each bearing and marked with it's other half





The inner faces to be soldered were given a light rub on some 600 grit wet and dry paper laid on something flat. This is a small slab of cast iron ground flat but anything will do as long as it's smooth and flat.





These faces - try not to touch them with your fingers after the last op - are then fluxed in this case using traditional 'Fluxite'





At the same time fold up a wad of kitchen roll paper or similar and coat with flux





The next couple of pics bear testiment to 'Sods Law' - take three pics of each op and you can use 'em all, take one and it's bound to be blurred/out of focus etc :

Heat one block at a time until the flux starts to go brown and blob on some solder - this is ordinary multicore -it doesn't have to cover it completely just enough to be able to spread it around.





Then while it is still hot hold it with some pliers or similar and using that flux coated paper wipe the solder smooth across the entire face. Flick the surplus solder off with the paper the surface needs to be very thinly coated.
(This pic is an 'after shot' the two done at the time were unusable)





Clean off any solder blobs from the sides using a file and a rub on the wet and dry until the faces are smooth again. Lightly rub the soldered face on the W&D to get smooth faces and reflux these and smear together. (They are not soldered at this point merely 'wrung' together with the faces aligned. Note at this point the ends are still as sawn and well over length





Using a spring clamp and making sure the pieces are in alignment heat slowly until the melting solder starts to emerge from the join as the clamp pushes the two parts together. Put a very small dot of solder on the top face - this serves two purposes, it makes sure theres sufficient and, as there is a considerable amount of latent heat in the blocks it takes a while for them to cool and the solder to set. By gently pushing this blob (but not, of course, with your finger!) you can tell when that point is reached. If the blocks are moved before the solder sets you can guarrantee they'll move out of alignment :





Once cooled the fun bit begins to turn them into bearings. The last faces to be machined and only after the hole is put in are the top and lower faces. First cuts are to face the sides





Then the ends. Note the use of the second block to ensure uniform clamping pressure





The blocks squared up but still with the original top and lower faces unmachined. Marked ready for drilling.





After the holes are drilled and reamed those faces can gradually be brought down to block size relative to the hole





After the rebates have been milled it just remains to gently file the last .03 or so off of faces to ensure a good fit





That's as far as I got today with these, hopefully they will be finished off tomorrow.

Like I said I hope this is of use to someone - I'm not unaware there are some pretty skilled people on here so please - this is very definitely not intended for them 

Regards for now Ramon


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## dalem9 (Nov 22, 2011)

Ramon It's people like you that keep this site so interesting . Thanks for such a great post .Dale


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## ref1ection (Nov 22, 2011)

Great looking engine and the descriptive posts are really informative.

Ray


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## danstir (Nov 23, 2011)

Thanks for all the detail on that last operation. I am definitley here to learn.


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## RonGinger (Nov 23, 2011)

Thanks for a great description.

Can you add a bit on how you got the hole in the center of the blocks? I have found it hard to pick the exact line of the solder


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## Ramon (Nov 23, 2011)

Hi again Guy's, 
(in fact it's hi again twice - I've just been adding some more only to click the wrong spot and dumped the whole lot down the swanny Aaaaggghhhhhhh :) Oh golly gosh I said or was it something rather similar.

Well it's good to hear that some feel this is worth while - I know what you've said but I'm always at a loss to know whether it's enough, too much or what and indeed suitable but I guess with your input I'll soon get the hang of it 

Re the hole position Ron and any one else wondering - apologies - that got over looked. 
That's the reason the 'top and 'lower' dimensions are a definite and uniform size before soldering and why they are not milled before the hole is put in. By centering the drill on the centreline of the block you are directly over the join line. If you mill these faces before hand there is the possibilty of losing the exact centre line. Once the hole is in the sides can be milled all round keeping an eye on dimensions relative to the hole as milling proceeds.

I've had another good day in the old shed so a few more pics of progress.....

First off was to fit those bearings to the standards using a sharp needle file on the bronze and a used one on the steel





Then they were removed and transfered to an expanding mandrel in the lathe. This is one carried over from IC projects. The head is expanded by the 8BA screw which has a 60 degree taper cut on it to match the internal centre drilled taper. These are very efficient workholding devices - infact great care has to be taken in tightening them on this specific operation as it can split the solder join - yes you would be right - but not on this occasion ;D





The sides were thinned and bosses turned to improve their appearance





Small pads were made for the standards and some rebates milled in to help give a cast look. (The pads will eventually be JB welded to the standards)





Bearing caps were made from the same stock as the standards





They were then bolted to a mandrel for turning the taper and the oiler boss.





Nearly ready to fit - the bolts are dummys - studs as yet to be turned





And finally theres a few more parts to fit - doesn't seem much for a several days worth but theres a lot of 'fiddling' in there





Well it's getting late and I've got a good book so a bit more on the fitting later

Regards for now - Ramon


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## rleete (Nov 23, 2011)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> ...doesn't seem much for a several days worth but theres a lot of 'fiddling' in there



Looks like several weeks worth of work for me.

Enjoying the write-up, keep it coming.


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## Ramon (Nov 24, 2011)

Heres a few more pics covering the few stages to get to current state of play.

The big end was made in a similar fashion to the previous bearings. It is split apart - can't get it on the crank pin otherwise - so you can see the kind of join line acheivable




I'm not sure what kind of oiler would be fitted to this kind of big end - I'm considering an oilbox attached to the rod with a thin pipe leading into the top of the bearing - Anyone any thoughts on this?

This has to be one of the most used lathe 'accessories' I have. Just a disc with some 6mm tapped holes in that acts as a quick faceplate for smaller items. The clamps are about 40mm long and are from my very first lathe - a Unimat bought in the early seventies. By setting the top cover to run true and boring the gland in situ ensures perfect alignment of gland to top. The gland must be a good fit in the top though.










The gaskets were cut from a good stiff brown paper. The pics makes them look as if it's card and rather thick but infact its just under 4 thou and was salvaged from some packing material. They will be soaked in light oil before final assembly.










After marking off from the part I always cut the holes before the gasket as it's much easier to handle





Making a small tubular cutter is easy enough and I used to use it as a wad punch but very often the holes would be misplaced or mis-cut. By running it at low speed in a drill and bringing it down onto one of those self healing cutting mats perfect holes are cut every time.





The dimensions on the original drawings are very good - basically I scaled them by 1.333 and made direct conversion to metric. I had to strip it down and re position the holes for the valve rod guides because of that gasket. Anthony Mount certainly did a good job on this engine.

So with all those bits it was time to get it together again and this is what it looks like today. I finally too, after some fourteen years after I made it, got round to fettling the flywheel spokes and primed it.










I have to take a break from the shed for a couple of days but hopefully next week will see the remaining valve gear parts - rocking shaft and the eccentric drive - finished when it should be able to tick over on air for the first time.

Hope this is still of interest
More later then.

Regards - Ramon


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## nsfr1206 (Nov 24, 2011)

Yes, it is still of interest. Looking good!


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## SBWHART (Nov 25, 2011)

> Hope this is still of interest
> More later then.
> 
> Regards - Ramon



Very much of interest, i've been quetly following allong and learnt a lot along the way, some very intersting tecniques show.

Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the next part.

Stew


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## archer3d (Nov 25, 2011)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> This has to be one of the most used lathe 'accessories' I have. Just a disc with some 6mm tapped holes in that acts as a quick faceplate for smaller items. The clamps are about 40mm long and are from my very first lathe - a Unimat bought in the early seventies. By setting the top cover to run true and boring the gland in situ ensures perfect alignment of gland to top. The gland must be a good fit in the top though.



I really like that idea, should work well with my large chuck. thank you

archer3d


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## kustomkb (Nov 25, 2011)

That is some beautiful work. The quality really shows through in the close up shots.

Thanks for sharing all of your tips and techniques.


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## ref1ection (Nov 25, 2011)

I'm really starting to look forward to the video that I hope you plan on posting of it running on air for the first time.

Ray


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## lee9966 (Nov 25, 2011)

Thank you for showing your techniques. It's always good to have ideas like these, if I can remember them when needed!

Lee


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## Harold Lee (Nov 25, 2011)

Ramon,

Thank you for sharing your project. I have been following it with great interest and have learned some very interesting machining techniques from you. Keep the postings coming!!

Harold


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## Ramon (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi guy's - once again thank you all for your interest and your most kind comments. Coming from such stalwart posters and excellent machinists I can tell you, they are valued indeed and much appreciated

With regard to the video Ray I hope you won't be disappointed if I'm not able too but so far I have had no luck on my previous attempts to post a short clip of the IC engines running. That said I will try again as obviously it is something I'd like to get to grips with.

I haven't had a very good day today so reading this has cheered me up no end. I'm glad it's proving helpful and will post some more within a day or two

Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Nov 25, 2011)

I'm not sure what kind of oiler would be fitted to this kind of big end - I'm considering an oilbox attached to the rod with a thin pipe leading into the top of the bearing - Anyone any thoughts on this?





That would be in keeping with good practice...make sure it's in a place someone would actually put it. I wouldn't want to climb under the entabulature on the real engine to fill the box if the engine was running ...for instance ;D

Dave


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## Ramon (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi Dave - yes I had considered that fact but don't forget there was little if any H&S in those days . From the text of the design it would appear that these were quite small engines even in the larger size so I guess reaching in whilst it was running wouldn't have been too risky. I can't think of any other way other than the rotating arm type with a pick up from a stationary oil resevoir as on many large horizontals but I think that would be out of keeping for this type and period - that's an assumption though so am open to any further knowlegeable input.

Things have been a bit slow but progressed a little never the less...... 

After those small bearing blocks the valve rocker arm was tackled next. This was made from some steel that was used at work - 'UHB11' which is a bolster steel, apparently similar to En9 and machines relatively easily. It's great virtue is no matter how much sections are removed it has virtually no distortion unlike most BMS. Despite the apparent rough machining marks it files and 'emeries' to a reasonable finish quite easily too.






Next op was to mount on a mandrel and turn the bosses and face each side





Then on to the rotary table to radius the end, relieve the sides and finish the front end










Initial cleanup improved matters





Next up was yet another radius form tool and a taper reamer for the Rocking Shaft Drive Arm





The tapered hole being reamed in the drive arm before turning to ensure squareness. Even now after so long messing about with these things if there's one thing that gives me a real buzz from this hobby it's when a simply made cutter that you've made yourself works well.





Finished arm, the lower hole was tapped 6BA in situ on the lathe as for the reaming





The shaft was split with one part loctited into the other after the arm was slid on. The whole was then assembled in situ and the arm loctited in alignment with the lifting shaft and over the join to disguise it. What appears to be a bad pinning attempt is actually a 'ding'. This will hopefully dissappear when it is eventually pinned  The tapered end was turned at the same topslide angular setting as the tapered reamer to ensure matching tapers
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aFoGiINE-EU/TtVNSTQy-bI/AAAAAAAAFj4/9cLXpwHM1J0
/s800/DSCN3836.JPG

And finally it's ready for those last three 'eccentric' parts essential to make it run





The eccentric itself was made today in an easily made fixture but I think this enough for this post so back with a bit more on that a little later .


Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi Dave - yes I had considered that fact but don't forget there was little if any H&S in those days . From the text of the design it would appear that these were quite small engines even in the larger size so I guess reaching in whilst it was running wouldn't have been too risky. I can't think of any other way other than the rotating arm type with a pick up from a stationary oil resevoir as on many large horizontals but I think that would be out of keeping for this type and period - that's an assumption though so am open to any further knowlegeable input.


Well two trains of thought come to mind

1.  Long spout on the can keeps the "bits" away...good way to lose a spout 
2.  As someone who's reached into said spaces on marine applications...I mightleave it there....or I might move it... ;D

I would vote for the first one in this case I think.....

Mighty fine job of it I might add!  :bow:

Dave


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## Ramon (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi again guy's,
Following on from the previous post here are a few pics of the method used to turn the eccentric which some may find interesting if not useful.

First off the eccentric blank was turned to finished OD and the groove for the strap put in finishing the face opposite the boss. No pics of this I'm afraid.

Next up a fixture plate is required. This one was from a previous IC project. It requires a hole for the blank, a slot cut through and drilled and tapped for a clamp bolt. The two edges opposite the slot need to be square to each other.
In this shot it's being set true on the faceplate using the nose of a drill chuck as a centre. It wasn't clocked true as any slight discrepancy can be taken up when setting the valve. The finished size hole for the eccentric should only be done once in situ on the lathe.





Next a stop bar - in this instance a parallel - is clamped spaced the amount of throw required from the end. Here a 5.3 drill was used





The hole was then bored to receive the eccentric with a nice snug fit





A lower stop bar was clamped for the plate to slide on and another parallel clamped for balance





The clamps are released, the plated slid over to the stop and re-clamped. It's ready to use.





The hole is put in first - drilled, bored then reamed - that way if the part should move when turning the boss it can be held on a mandrel. I choose to rough turn the boss still in the fixture - the only tool suitable to clear the clamps was a boring bar hence the need to do this op in reverse 





Initial turning complete and ready for finishing off on a mandrel





Another previously used expanding mandrel was recycled and turned to fit the bore





Then the boss and adjacent face was finish turned. As said the groove was turned on the initial blank, the fixture clamping only on the thin far edge and about 1.5mm on the area next the boss. The pressure achieved by these clamping plates - and the expanding mandrels for that matter - is considerable given their simplicity.





Transfered to a dividing head on the mill the clamp bolt holes were drilled and tapped and it's ready to fit





Well, as said, I hope that's of interest, even useful for someone. If it's 'Teaching Granny......' then my apologies.

As alluded to earlier this derived from the need to offset IC engine backplates for turning the intake tubes. Once the plate has been made it's very quick and easy to set up and of course its repeatable. Damn sure beats the hell out of using a four jaw 

Had a long day in the garden today but did get a tentative start on the strap tonight - a bit more later then

Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Nov 30, 2011)

Nice faceplate demo Ramon!  A man after me own heart....love faceplates!

Dave


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## danstir (Dec 1, 2011)

I enjoyed the explanation and pictures. Hope to remember some of your techniques when I make something like this. Thanks!


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## bearcar1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Ramon, I have been, and do like your style. A very well documented build with clear photos and concise descriptions. Nicely done. It will be glorious to see this engine running, I for one am waiting in anticipation of the video.

BC1
Jim


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## ref1ection (Dec 1, 2011)

A very interesting way to do eccentrics. Now I have a reason to knock the dust of my faceplate . As usual another well documented post.

Ray


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## Ramon (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi Guy's glad it's been of interest. The more I use clamping plates and expanding mandrels the more I like 'em. They really are an excellent work holding device. It's much easier for instance when doing a cylinder to just concentrate on getting the bore right(and one end faced if doing it in the chuck) then set it on an expanding mandrel to do the other end as well as to move it to the mill and bring all the faces to the bore. I'm convinced it's much easier to keep things under control this way than to try to get the bore in relative to external faces after they've been machined.

Had a really good session today and took quite a few pics of making the eccentric strap ......well you did say you like piccy's 

First up was a couple of pieces of brass - this is actually manganese bronze which machines well giving nice chips as opposed to spraying those razor sharp shards everywhere that you get off some brass.





The long edges and one face on each piece were milled then they were treated like the small bearings previously mentioned and soldered together in exactly the same fashion. (Size of this is 52 x 48 x 9 mm)





The block was then milled flat on both sides before drilling and reaming a .250 dia aligning hole on the break line and four fixing holes










It was then bolted to that small 'faceplate' seen earlier. The spigot is aligning it in a central hole 





The rotary table was zeroed and the part set square to the mill the spigot now aligning the faceplate to the R/T





The coordinates were checked by cutting in a couple of thou then the lower form was cut first. The R/T has stops fitted which makes for much less anxiety about over shooting 





The cut line was done to finished dimensions but the roughing out was done using a 3mm cutter with the finishing done with a 4mm.





Finished milling ops ready for the lathe





First though a plug gauge was required. Made from a scrap of FCMS it was turned .01mm larger than the eccentric sheave diameter. 





The bore was finish turned to just allow the gauge to push in easily










As taken off the lathe ready for the next stages.





First up was to cut away the top waste and trim the lower face with a file. This was then stood in the vice and the holes for the bolts and rod drilled and tapped before the lower waste was removed










That plug gauge was converted into yet another exp. mandrel so that the surplus could be machined away










And finally an eccentric - but it's not finished yet :





In order to simulate a cast finish first the corners are all well fettled





Then comes the worry bit - after all those ops will I bugger it up ???.
Using one of these engravers the surface is attacked - gently but with the engraver working on a 'heavy' setting at first. 





The entire part is abraded at this setting before reducing the power of the 'hit' slightly and going all over it again, doing it all for a third time at a lower setting still. This produces a degree of varying surface. It's time consuming as the surface has to be constantly gone over to ensure even coverage but it does give a reasonable rendition. This is a posed shot - it's much better to hold the part in the hand as it's being engraved. Obviously the ali part is just a protector for the bore and running faces.





And finally, after mounting on the mandrel and facing both running faces to finished width it's there















I don't know who it was who said you all like piccy's on here but that should keep him happy if nothing else : 

I've had a very enjoyable time making this today - I hope the coverage of doing so will be as enjoyable for you too 

One bit to make now before it can run ;D

See you later 
Regards - Ramon


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## Jeremy_BP (Dec 1, 2011)

Wow - that really looks like it was cast!
This whole thing is fantastic. And I, for one, love the pictures.


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## steamer (Dec 1, 2011)

I don't know who it was who said you all like piccy's on here but that should keep him happy if nothing else  ..."


I know who that was...it was this person called....EVERYBODY!

 ;D

Dave


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## steamer (Dec 1, 2011)

I've used pipe plugs as expander bolts for expanding mandrels before...they work well because their tapered...

Dave


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## Ramon (Dec 2, 2011)

Morning Dave, the old glims are a bit bleary after staring at this screen for so long last night 

Anything tapered is ideal so can see a pipe plug working fine. I've got a few capheads pre turned with a 60 degree taper to match that of a centre drill from 2mm, through 8,4,2BA and 6mm. It's amazing how much pressure can be exerted with so little torque on the screw.

Weathers good today so it's more in the garden first but maybe this afternoon.........

Glad you liked the pics Jeremy 

Regards - Ramon


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## metalmad (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi Ramon
Wow what a great Post :bow:
love it !!
Pete


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## danstir (Dec 2, 2011)

Beautiful work!


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## ref1ection (Dec 2, 2011)

It's always good to see lots of pictures to help visualize the process being used and steps taken. I for one have never seen a post with too many pics. ;D

Ray


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## Ramon (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi guys its 15.47 here - just thought you might like to know it's now running ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D albeit on a temporary eccentric rod (to ascertain the length)

More later - Ramon


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## smfr (Dec 2, 2011)

Wow, what an inspiration! Love it. :bow:

Simon


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## Ramon (Dec 3, 2011)

Hi again guys - thought you would like to see the proof ;D

Made a proper rod today and a nice little bronze bushed pin and assembled it all up. 











Enlisted the help of Sue (note the better quality pics :-[) and tried to get the flywheel in semi motion. It looks as if it's revving like an I/C motor but the airline is just stuffed into the steam chest hole, air escaping all round and pressure about 15psi. It's running at no more than a fast tick over.





I tried crimping off the tube to restrict what little flow there was further but the camera still couldn't capture it. No video as yet I'm afraid but a friend is due to visit next week who may just be able to help so in the meantime this is the best I can come up with. The exhaust gives a lovely soft 'chiiiffffff' 'chuuffffff' on each stroke so hope that doesn't disappear once the exhaust pipe is connected.





I've finally come to a decision to finish it off before starting another I/C engine so it's on with the governor parts next and a first attempt at gear cutting though it will be a week or two before I can get to grips with it as frequently as has been recently

Back sooner rather than later though I hope

Regards to you all - Ramon


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## Ramon (Dec 8, 2011)

Okay guy's you win - I can see you're not going to accept anything less than a full blown video : but you'll have to wait a bit longer till my friend with the camera gets over - no, believe it or not I don't posess one.

I have managed to get a small start on the governor parts and thought you might like to see the 'casting' of the body.

All parts are steel. The small soldering fixture was made from a slice of bright steel angle










The arms were put in one at a time. The slot for the link arm is filled with flux to help prevent it from becoming too oxidised on the first heating





The bosses for the gear shaft and link arm were done after the arms with a slightly lower melting point solder





Clean up with a few needle files and some emery didn't take long










Attached to it's bracket a coat of primer soon brings it to life - still haven't decided on what colour to paint it yet





I now have to delve into the mysteries of cutting two small bevel gears - a first time ever so it will be interesting to see what transpires.

Regards - Ramon


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## JorgensenSteam (Dec 8, 2011)

That is beautiful work Ramon.

Thanks for posting that.

Pat J


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## SBWHART (Dec 9, 2011)

Cracking job that man 

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

Stew


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## Lesmo (Dec 11, 2011)

Ramon I am only on page 2 of your build and agree with Pete in reply #17. that you are if anything under posting. This is quite a common thing to do when you are aware that you have very experienced people reading the thread and feel that you are in a Granny and eggs situation, but for those of us with little experience such as myself, detail is absolute gold. 
Having said that, I fully understand the time constraints of going into fine detail, where the write up, pics etc, could end up taking longer that the build itself. Fascinating stuff though and extremely nice work.

Les


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## compspecial (Dec 11, 2011)

The quality of your work is outstanding, Ramon..bravo!
               stew.


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## steamer (Dec 11, 2011)

Nicely fixtured Ramon, I believe there is a thread on making bevel gears....several actually.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=10416.0


Dave


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## Ramon (Dec 12, 2011)

Hi again guys, 

It's very pleasing to hear that you are finding this useful and interesting. I take on board what you are saying Les. I tend to take pics as I go anyway these days as a reminder of ways gone about things - it's much quicker than making constant notes which is what I would do in the past. Putting it on here and on the ME forum for the benefit of others that may find it useful is not exactly an onerous task so I'm quite happy to do it if it's what members would like and after all that's what we are all here for eh 

I have spent too much time in the garden and on an 'impossible to refuse' the 'invitation' to go on a shopping trip to town : today to achieve much since the last post but rather than post a lot at once here's a short update on what has got done. The parts themselves are no big deal but the way it's been tackled may be of use.

Before the gears are tackled the linkage parts were started. I decided to make the lower Pivot Block in two parts rather than from all out of the solid so began both blocks with reducing enough for two in the mill as one piece





The bar, about 35mm long, was then draw filed to eliminate the machining marks. The file is a 4" flat #4 cut with the tang removed specifically for this type of op and for hand deburing. for this type of task I find it much easier to control than with a handle fitted.





Though it looks quite grainy in this pic it is infact quite smooth but will get constantly 'improved ' and smoothed on a sheet of emery on a flat surface as ops progress





The ends were squared and the two vertical holes were drilled and reamed the correct distance from each end plus a .25mm filing allowance





The cross holes were then drilled and reamed, spaced equally about the vertical holes, the block being turned end for end set against the dead stop





Despite a constant check for tiny bits of swarf on each placement in the vice the part still picked up dings - out of view in this pic - definitely not what's wanted as the surface gets smoother





Next up was some means of holding it for slotting the ends. It could have been done in the vice but once cut in half there would be little held between the jaws so a small fixture was called for. I have three or four small blocks of steel like this that are ground square all round and kept for this type of requirement. They are a product of my working days and once used up will not likely be replaced. If you are in a similar position to get such blocks ground I can well advise to do so as they are so useful. It has to be acknowledged - the trouble with retirement is the total lack of perks 
The slot was milled to a good fit for the part - the two holes are for a removable stop pin - first and second ops





With the part set against the stop pin a light clamping was all that was needed.





Ready for a deburr and cutting in two






The ends were milled to length leaving a filing allowance and the ops repeated this time with the stop pin set in the second hole





To keep the emery marks parallel to the part it was rubbed back and forth on 150 grit emery lubricated with paraffin and oil against a parallel. This op is continued on wet and dry paper down to 600 grit for a very smooth _non_ 'polished' surface.





That's as far as I've got - tomorrow, hopefully, I'll make some filing buttons and get those ends finished off and get the lower block Loctited to its partner before making a start on those rather flimsy ball arms.

Thanks for the link to the gear making Dave. Quite unexpectedly I have found a number of copies of articles on gear cutting, obviously squirreled away with potential future ideas in mind but totally forgotten about. (Definitely an age thing without a doubt) I think I now have the info I need but theres a bit of preparation work first before I can actually get cutting but no doubt there'll be more on that later .

Thanks again for your interest

Regards - Ramon


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## ref1ection (Dec 12, 2011)

Nice to watch someone go step by step making a part. Always possible to pick up tips on any build. I've picked up a few from your build so far.

Nice work
Ray


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## bearcar1 (Dec 12, 2011)

It's been a pleasure to watch so far Ramon, please continue and thank-you.

BC1
Jim


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## danstir (Dec 13, 2011)

Great looking engine and great build write up. 
Thank You!


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## coopertje (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi Ramon, your work is outstanding  :bow: :bow: :bow:

It very inspirational and educational. Compliments for the detailed description of the last part you have made, I know it takes a lot of time to take the photos and write it up, but it very much appreciated!!! I learned something here, thank you for that.

Looking forward to the bevel gears, I also need to make a set for my Stanley steamer car. The big problem is that the angle is 60 degrees and not 90....

Thanks again for sharing and have fun! 

Regards Jeroen


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## Ramon (Dec 16, 2011)

Hi Guys, once again my thanks for your kind and considerate comments - as already said if someone is getting some benefit from this 'tale' then I'm quite happy to continue.

The last few days has been affected by 'circumstances beyond control' and I've not really had any 'flow' in the workshop but never the less have managed to keep picking away at the governor parts as time permitted.......

Two small filing buttons were turned up, hardened and the pivot arms finished off altering the shape slightly in order to make them look a little more convincing. I usually harden buttons as opposed to leaving them soft as soft buttons have to be able to roll to be effective in controling the file.





Next up was to prepare the ball bearings so that they could be drilled. They were heated to a good red/orange colour with no inner 'shadow' for about 3-4 mins, well beyond the temp in pic - this was taken just as the heat began to build. 





Then they were dropped into this pre heated coal fire ash to cool slowly. Fire ash appears to be the best thing for retaining the heat for annealing other than hot coals unless of course you have a small furnace.





The balls oxidised to a fair degree which proved almost glass hard in parts but a short soak in some hydrocloric acid soon softened it 





A quick collet was turned from a stub of ali and held the ball secure enough for rough emerying and then drilling. The material had softened suitably enough for this but was still rather tough, speed having to come right down to prevent work hardening





A short spigot was turned to hold the balls for final emerying and polishing. No attempt was made to bring them back to the original lustre but just enough for then to give the appearance of being turned 





A 'before and after' shot





Next up were the ball arms and yet another two radius tools





The first one lifted up on to the tool on the second ball and broke off so a steady was made by holding the piece of brass in the drill chuck in the tailstock and centre drilling it from the lathe chuck. That's the first time I've tried a steady like this and it works perfectly with a bit of lube. In order to keepthe material as strong as possible the second ball was turned from both sides





That block came into play again and two pins were set to locate the arm










The arms were gently clamped and the bosses milled down to fit the pivot arms





So far so good, a start was made on the lower arms today so it should not be long before the 'twiddly bits' can be assembled then it really is onto those gears.

That's it for a while then - as always hope that's useful to someone

Regards - Ramon


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## Groomengineering (Dec 17, 2011)

Coming together nicely Ramon! Thm: Thanks for letting us follow along!

Cheers

Jeff


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## Ramon (Dec 17, 2011)

Well, I actually managed to get a good full day in the workshop today and have finished off most of the parts for the govenor save the gears.

The last parts to be made other than the hinge pins were the lower link arms. It was felt these would prove a bit of a challenge to hold and form as the metal was gradually removed but as it transpired things worked out fine........

They began by forming the ball ends using the previous radius tool on the ends of two pieces of 5mm MS bar however this time the holes were drilled and reamed after the part was transfered to the dividing head on the mill to ensure squareness of the part relative to the holes. A tentative start on removing the machining marks was made in the area that would be left as stock.





Another slot was milled in that block - that's certainly earned it's keep on this job - and the part clamped in for slotting this time using FC3 cutters roughing first with a 1/16 followed by a 2mm to size the slot





A few minutes with some filing buttons and the parts are ready for the final op. 





Thinking about Simon's ('smfr') rather inovative way of driving his linkage parts for his beam engine a quickly made drive fixture was milled up and transfered still in the collet chuck back to the lathe





The previously used brass 'female centre' was put into play again and provided very good support and concentricity. As previously mentioned this is the first time this little 'get you by' has been tried - it's certainly going to get some use from now on.





The fixture worked well and taking small cuts at a high speed (revs) the metal removed with ease with no distortion
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-v2H4H1HxeA4/Tu0B08uZ5LI/AAAAAAAAFo0/L5MJvZ0rxDY
/s800/DSCN4038.JPG

Incidentally, the turning tool being used above is made from a discarded FC3 'throwaway' cutter shank. This is a rich source of small section HSS. Held in steel holders they are quick to grind particularly when very small section tools ie grooving, chamfering, radiusing, screw cutting etc, etc are required. They certainly take the pain out of reducing larger pieces of HSS on the off hand grinder.





And finally after making the hinge pins this evening and fitting them with short pieces of 12 BA studding it was time for a trial assembly










The next session, after a clean up, is to start prepping in order to cut the gears - in the meantime if any one has any questions about anything done so far do ask.

Back in a day or two then, hopefully with a new 'machining experience' 

Regards - Ramon


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## SBWHART (Dec 17, 2011)

Lovely Jubly :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Stew


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## metalmad (Dec 17, 2011)

Top Job Mate :bow:
Pete


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## G_N_R (Dec 19, 2011)

Excellent workmanship, a fantastic project very well explained. :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## AndyB (Dec 19, 2011)

Crikey!!!

Fabulous!!!

And...you make it all look so easy! :bow: :bow: :bow:

I too, occassionally, suffer from the 'impossible to refuse invitation', but she goes to Tesco's in your town...I could lose her in the aisles and slip round to watch a master craftsman at his work...she would never notice, well, until it got to the 'what do you want for your lunchbox?' But there again, I get complained at for causing her to spend too much...and that is after my stock answers of 'whatever you like', 'I don't mind', don't get me anything special', 'it's only fuel'! AND THEN, I get criticised for not looking ecstatically happy every second of being in complete hell with all the little demons and zombies 

Of course, I bet nobody else feels the same way about that dreadful 's' word that women indulge in. How is it that women make a simple thing like shopping so arduous? I am as happy as anything when I go shopping. Put me in any tool store you like and I will that happy bunny! :big: :big: :big:


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## bearcar1 (Dec 19, 2011)

OUTSTANDING! Ramon. Simply outstanding. And a K to you for showing that nifty, inexpensive tool bar/holder. Mn you do some fine work and so easy looking.

BC1
Jim


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## Ramon (Dec 19, 2011)

This is difficult :-[.

It really is very nice of all of you to say such nice things and perhaps a mite rather embarassing particularly as I'm very new on the block round here. 

I can only say - I just love making models and have done so for most of my 67 years and do love to share the outcome with anyone that is interested. Model making in various forms and interests throughout those years has always figured high on the priority list despite having a varied career - and one which model making has certainly 'interfered' with at times. I guess it would be fair to say that apart from my long suffering but totally supportive wife Sue it is my overiding passion on a day to day basis.

Before being able to be part of something like this on the ME forum and recently on here it was very much a case of the odd occasion on a 'Bit's and Pieces' night whilst a member of the NDSME and laterly once a year at the Forncett Steam Museum's Model Engineers Day Out. I've always believed, that as a member of any group, you will only get out what you are prepared to put in. Forgive the patently obvious but on here it can be done daily and the contact for all concerned is such an asset to our individual take on the hobby.

I really don't see myself as anything other than someone who enjoy's his modelling and am well aware of it's limitations. When I see the work of others on here and elsewhere I can only marvel at their ingenuity, their dedication to the task and their abilities. It is all relative between each and every one of us but all to a common cause.

Over many years, no doubt like so many of us, I have seen some truly stunning models at exhibitions. I have always tried to allow that to influence my thinking - not always on a try to do likewise and certainly not to try to 'out do' but to just try to do the best I can and improve a little each time. Perfection, like beauty, is definitely in the eye of the beholder. It's how you use it that's down to the individual.

Hope you can see where I'm coming from and that you won't see that as anything other than sincere 


Nothing much to report - it's been a long, not quite but almost, non-workshop day with a visit to the enemy, sorry - mother in law taking precedence but I have made a start on the tooling for making the gear cutters tonight.

Andy, in the New Year you'd be more than welcome to come over and have a 'mardle' (That's Suffolk slang for chat for you non 'Suffolk Boy's') and see whats doing - I'll get the kettle on .


Kind Regards - Ramon


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## nsfr1206 (Dec 19, 2011)

Wow, that governor assembly looks great!


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## steamer (Dec 19, 2011)

That is looking truly amazing Ramon!   :bow:

Dave


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## rleete (Dec 20, 2011)

Ramon,

While I appreciate modesty, you need not be embarrased by any compliments. This is all top notch work, and is easily equal to the best that others have offered up. Not only a first class build, but excellent writup, combined with good photos to illustrate your points.

I've also learned a couple of things along the way (notably the part of making pinned joints invisible), and that's worth a world of praise. Keep up the excellent work!


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## ref1ection (Dec 20, 2011)

All the little tips and tricks you use for your own convenience are something that the rest of us may have never seen before. I've learned something from almost every post you've made so far. The quality of the parts you're making is outstanding and the pictures of each setup are much appreciated.

Ray


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## bearcar1 (Dec 20, 2011)

Ramon, please do not feel embarrassed about what is being spoken of your work. It is a testimony to the appreciation of a well thought out execution of building skill. To you, such things may seem to be mundane or nothing out of the ordinary, and perhaps they are, but nonetheless, the final results are truly amazing. I really enjoy the visuals that show how something is set-up, followed by the steps to the end result the most. Seeing just the 'after' images takes away from the impact of what is required in fabrication. That governor assembly is terrific and it has shown me a couple of nuances that I had not considered before. Continue to do what you do and do not let us influence your doing so.

BC1
Jim


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## don-tucker (Dec 20, 2011)

Only just glanced at this post for now ,and was most impressed,will have agood read later.
something to look forward to.
Thanks Don


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## Ramon (Dec 24, 2011)

Hi Guys, Just an update before Santa gets here.

The last few days have seen some ups and downs which have had a considerable influence on productivity :

Ah well, theres always tomorrow - tomorrow ??? ??? ???

As mentioned before, gear cutting is a new procedure for me. Many years ago, during training, a helical spur gear was cut on a universal mill along with a couple of straights but they were exercises and were of different DP so nothing meshed. This would be the first time on all fronts - home workshop, making tooling, making cutters, cutting the gears and _getting them to work_.
I'm pleased to say apart from one or two hiccups on 'yours truly's' part the whole thing has gone much better than expected and tonight saw the two gears temporarily fitted, meshing and revolving well without binding.

I took some pics along the way - I would stress though that they are not, most definitely not, intended to show anyone _how to do it_, but just to show those who, that like me before I began, may be considering the prospect of having to make some with a bit of cautious reserve. 

I did not particularly want to delve into theory and calculations more than I needed to so kept my study as low key as I could. Just sufficient to get the job done was all that was really needed

I referred to the information set out in the Ivan Law book regarding the layout of the bevels and also the information on making the tooling for making the cutters. However I found a copy of an article from Model Engineer tucked away in a folder which gave a little more info on making the actual tooling so decided to use that.

This is how it transpired.......

It was thought that instead of making the turning tool to cut both sides of the cutter at once that a single cutter would be easier to control and by turning the blank round would put the centre of the form exactly on centre line. Two tool holders were milled from mild steel and the ends milled off at a 5 degree angle and drilled though square to that face to take the tooling buttons. The buttons were turned from silver steel and set up on the mill (that block again) and the tops milled off at a 10 degree angle. Heated to a bright red and quenched in oil they were left untempered for maximum hardness. The tops were then lapped with a diamond lap and finally stoned





















Notes were made for each cutter but this was where the first hiccup was made. The blanks were held on a mandrel and a facing cut was made to '0' the cross-slide. Afdter setting the cutter off to one side the cutter was then fed in the required amount. Looking at the very small and obviously wrong form it took some while for the penny to drop that the infeed was from the point of contact not from the previously set '0' oh:





Also noticed at this time was the instruction in the book to rotate the buttons at 45 degrees facng inwards to present the fuller form to the blank. It was too late to do this as the buttons were loctited in so the tool holder was rotated at the required angle. Actually this is probably best as this way it can be angled from both sides if required.





Once again a facing cut was made ........





Then the blank was inked up and the cutter - set at the correct side offset - was brought in to just touch on _then _the dial was zeroed :





This time the form looked correct, the blank was removed and turned over then the tool taken in to the same setting.






I'm going to have to stop here as I have just noticed that some images that should follow have gone astray - back with the final few pics and hopefully a finished govenor a while later then but in the meantime......

Merry Christmas to you all - have a great day tomorrow and enjoy the festivities. 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## ozzie46 (Dec 25, 2011)

This is great stuff. Keep it coming. :bow: :bow:

 Ron


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## steamer (Dec 25, 2011)

Merry Christmas Ramon,

I have the ME article you speak about.  I think your approach is a far better one as getting the profile centered is a very important feature to cutting good gears that don't "lean".  The only real way to do that is to measure the thickness of the cutter and set it to center height minus half the thickness of the cutter.....if the form is not dead center...you'll have a real tough time getting the form on center....and it becomes somewhat guess work.

Your approach should guarantee the form is on center unless your form tool wears significantly. 

Additionally, not drawing the temper of the cutter is a smart move.. they are far too small to have any significant internal stress that would warrant tempering, and the edge will be tempered just by using it. Leaving then full hard will allow for a very keen edge.

 :bow:

Regards,

Dave


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## Ramon (Dec 25, 2011)

Hi again guys, Merry Xmas (it's still the 25th here but I have managed to escape)

So keen I was, to relay the latest 'saga' that I omitted to say thank you all for your encouraging words. I am beginning to realise just how much most of you appear to view this extension to our hobby - they are much appreciated and I'm glad that you find this useful and of interest which makes it all worthwhile. Now let's get back on track.......

Dave - the idea to use a single cutter came from a reply I had on the ME forum (thanks Neil) - a reference to the fact that double cutters have to be exactly square to the blank and can create chatter. It seemed more practical to just use one and by turning the blank around ensure centrality. The chart showed two differing thicknesses for the blanks depending on the cutter number. If I were to do it again I would make all the blanks the thickest dimension so that once set up on the centre line this would not have to be changed. Obviously the thinner cutters would need reducing on their outer areas to the correct thickness as shown in the relevant charts. The blanks were made from slices of Silver Steel -from a bar of 1-1/4 diameter which I bought in my first year of model engineering - 1972. It has sat under the bench since then just waiting for a job :-\ There was a shop called 'Disposals' that sold all kinds of surplus material, mechanical and electrical and literally thousands of nuts and bolts. I think I paid about five shillings for it - 25p - hate to think of today's cost

After the first two didn't quite make the grade the second pair came off ok. An arbor was made with a 6mm tapped hole offset 3mm and the blanks milled to form a single point cutter. As you say there seems little point in tempering such items, they are not destined for long hard work and the likelyhood of chipping is far outweighed by the extra hardness. Though I do have cutters that have been tempered it really isn't neccessary for such low key use










The dividing head - this was it's first use in true dividing mode - was set on a sub plate to get the travel past the cutter. The main gear was tackled first. The gears were cut using thee parallel depth method, the cutter set to depth and the gap formed in one pass, winding the cutter back and forth a few times to 'clean' the surface.





Some how the calculator went awry and gave a wrong reading for setting on centre height. Confident it was correct I didn't check and milled what looked like a hypoid gear . next attempt saw a loss of direction and a total cock up after five teeth and the third attempt went fine - until that last cut   when it cut through the first tooth. It took some time before it was realised I'd made the classic mistake of counting the hole it started in as '1'





Undeterred but beginning to get a bit anxious that one would ever materialise the fourth attempt went ok





While it was still in the collet chuck it was deburred with a needle file and the outer tops of the teeth rounded slightly.





With new found confidence next up was the pinion.Leaving the head set at the same angle this was cut in the 'X' axis as opposed to the 'Y' axis for the main gear





And the finished result - my first gears ;D Trial assembled on the governor and just running free they appear to mesh and run well without binding but will they when everything is pinned and fixed? That'll have to wait a bit to see.





I'm not unaware that on the scale of things many have made far more esoteric gears at home than these but these _are_ my first and I'm well pleased with the outcome. I have always baulked at the thought of doing them in the past having bought them when required but this bodes well for future projects..

If you've never done it before I hope this will prove encouraging.

Regards for now - hope you had a great day too

Ramon


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## Jasonb (Dec 25, 2011)

Well done Ramon, they certainly look upto the job, next time get them done before you start on teh xmas sherry and you will get them right first time 

Fancy knocking out a couple of skew gears for my Benson while the dividing head is out 

J


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## moconnor (Dec 25, 2011)

Hello Ramon,

Congratulations on your first set of gears. Very well done. I too am thoroughly enjoying your presentation of this project and have also learned quite a few new things along the way. Thank you for taking the time to share your work with us, it is greatly appreciated.

Could you please provide the issue(s) that the gear cutting information using the button cutters appeared in Model Engineer? I have seen the technique before, but haven't found a source for the mathematical information to be able to make the tooling. I would really appreciate the dates so I can track down the article. Thanks again.

Kind regards,
Mike


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## Ramon (Dec 26, 2011)

Now theres a thought Jason   Actually do you have any idea of any articles on cutting such - with 'simple' kit that is.
Having said that I think a restriction for me however would be not being able to tilt the mill head nor have the room under the spindle with the DH tilted up to get anywhere but that said a new mill may be on the cards in the New Year - depends on how things work out.

Mike - the article I referred to was one by D.A.G. Brown which was featured in the Sept 2nd 1994 issue of Model Engineer. Let me know if you have any difficulty finding it as I can pass on any info from it you need. It explains the requirements of making tools for the relevant cutters very well and gives full charts for doing so for 14-1/2, 20 and 30 degree pressure angles.

The governor was assembled with the gears pinned in place this afternoon and it works very smoothly. It was stripped down again for two small refinements so no pics but hopefully some a bit later.

Had a nice find this afteroon - going for for a 12 BA die in it's usual storage tin found not only a 14 BA but a 16 as well - didn't even know I'd got 'em. Isn't getting old fascinating ;D

Regards - Ramon


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## tel (Dec 26, 2011)

Nice job on the gears Ramon - always a buzz to get a set working properly - I well remember the first set I did - after two attempts!


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## Blogwitch (Dec 26, 2011)

I have just uploaded to the downloads section an extract from an old freebie download book that shows and explains the way to cut a bevel gear.

Hope it helps to explain a few things.

If you want the full book on bevel gearing, it is 7mb in size, so I don't think it would go by email, but if you have Skype, if you contact me, it can be transferred while we talk.


John


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## Dan Rowe (Dec 26, 2011)

Ramon, nice gears I have to give that a try very soon.

The book John just posted a bit of is _Machinery's Reference Series No. 37_ by Ralph E. Flanders 1910. I have a copy but there should be a google version.

Dan


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## Ken I (Dec 26, 2011)

Ramon, thanks for your interesting post - I've cut gears before but it wouldn't have crossed my mind to use a single tooth cutter - they look really good.

Must try it myself sometime.

Ken


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## Ramon (Dec 28, 2011)

Hi guys, I had intended to be able to do this last night but things didn't quite go as hoped for.

First off thanks for your responses both on here and by PM. 

Tel, good to see you are still keeping an eye on things - that's a nice set you have there and an impressive looking bracket - cast or fabricated?

John, thanks for the offer of the book but I do have sufficient for my needs on current projects - though I would like to take a look at the section you have down loaded. However, I may be missing something or doing something wrong but couldn't find the 'Download section' you refer too - is this is under the 'Plans' header

Ken, I don't feel that a single point cutter would ever match a properly made and backed off conventional one for continuous or high volume use but this did work fine albeit a bit slowly due to the intermitent cut and low cutting speed. It certainly works in a situation like this where very little is required of it task wise ie just two parts. The cutters exhibited no wear though and look virtually unused.

Well, at last the governor is complete and fitted in place. The small refinements referred to previously were to make a new bronze top bush for the standard with a slightly (.15mm .006" )thicker top flange to lift the pinion a tad. The weight of the parts above were pushing the shaft down causing the pinion down onto the gear just a fraction too much. The second thing was to make a stop to restrict the outwards arm movement. To keep this reasonably in scale it required a small bolt and as such I've just turned the smallest item I think I've ever made...a square headed 14 BA bolt about 2.5mm long. I expect that may be big by some standards but it's certainly pretty tiny to me 

Here are some more pics.....

This is the bolt for the governor stop. The nut is a standard 10BA for comparison. The find of the 14BA die was somewhat opportune to say the least.





With regard to threading and just as a matter of course this may be of interest .. many years ago when I bought my first sets of ME and BA taps and dies like most I made a tailstock die holder to use them in the lathe. Bought at an ME exhibition these were carbon and relatively cheap . It soon became apparent that some of the taps cut larger holes and some of the dies cut undersize - one was so bad that it literally reduced the size of the material rather than cut a thread. A call was made and the sage advice offered was to open them up by tightening the expanding screw. Well, it doesn't take long to realise that you can't exactly do that witha tailstock die holder - if the reccess is big enough to allow the die to be expanded it must inturn put the die off centre! Hmmmm ??? However if the die could 'float' then it may solve the problem. I have never seen this problem referred to nor indeed this 'solution' but some may find something in it's value

By making separate flat die holders that could be 'backed up' by the existing tailstock die holder in order to keep them square, but which would have no influence on them other than pressure, solved the problem without having to source better quality dies.

In virtually all instances except that one bad die these have enabled threads to be cut with those original dies with controllable degrees of tolerance of tightness. The die holder, still there - just in case - has never actually been used in the manner it was intended since but purely as described. 

In use the tail stock die holder, which is spring loaded to present a degree of forward pressure to the floating die holder and maintain squareness as the thread progresses, is brought up to the the FDH and the FDH rotated by hand or held stationary as the chuck rotates if done under power. Most threads up to around 1/4 can be cut by (my) hand grip/torque alone and of course the smaller they are the more sensitivity you have on the cutting - in fact the holders are, if anything, rather heavy for the 14BA thread involved here to get any real feel but with care it did the job.

These are the holders and blanks made some thirty years ago. There are in fact even more blanks as it was intended to have individual dies fitted ready to go - obviously that idea never got very far and the three you see are all that have been used over that time. They are easy enough to make, the only criteria being that the back face must be parallel with the face the die sits against. The die holder on the right is the original made at that time too.





This shows the holder in use, in this case the TDH was brought very gently into contact with the FDH and the FDH rotated with thumb and forefinger in order to achieve a degree of feel. This was virtually negligible given the weight of the holder to the size of thread!










After threading the square was put on using an adjustable filing support





And finally, with a finial turned for the top it was all finished





And bolted in place ;D










Another stage is complete then - next is to sort out the steam inlet and throttle valve linking it through to the governor and the exhaust pipework. Hopefully that will not take too long - but I still haven't decided what colour to paint it :-\

As always thanks for your interest and input 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## Dan Rowe (Dec 28, 2011)

Ramon,
Thanks for the photos of your floating die holders. I made a fixed one many years ago but your system is much better.

The download section link is in the menu section directly below your avatar photo when you are logged in to the forum.

Dan


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## GWRdriver (Dec 28, 2011)

Well done Indeed! I think one of the most satisfying things I've ever done in my workshop was make my first gears.


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## smfr (Dec 28, 2011)

I wonder if making a FDH from aluminum would give you more feel, since it has less mass? You've given me some nice ideas for improving my bare-bones tailstock die holder!

Wow, that governor is beautiful! :big:


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## Ramon (Dec 28, 2011)

Hi guys,thanks for the response 

Dan - glad that's of use and thanks for the pointer too- isn't it great when you know what you are doing  - and thanks to John too for downloading the pages. (I confess it still took me some time to find exactly where but got there in the end :) 

'GWR' For many years the buzz I get from making something that fits something else well is one thing but for some reason that is always superceeded by making a cutter which then performs how you hoped it would and seeing the result. For me that _never_ fails to bring on a big grin and as you say - immensely satisfying.

Thanks again - Ramon

Your post has just come up as I was previewing this Simon - Yes I'm sure it would, infact I was thinking the very same thing this morning as I was using the steel one. I need to do something for small taps too - what I have is simple but needs 'growing' a little - perhaps a bit later.


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## AndyB (Dec 31, 2011)

Hi Ramon,

Stunning, just stunning!

I am lost for more words!

Er...I see the Y axis movement for cutting the first gear but don't quite see the X axis movement for the second. Do you mean that you climb cut it? What was the difference in speed and finish?

Andy


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## Jasonb (Dec 31, 2011)

Andy as its a 2:1 bevel the angles of the bevel are not the same, the small wheel will be say 60deg and the large wheel 30deg.

The dividing head is set at 30deg to the X axis which puts it at 60deg to the Y axis so by feeding it one way you get a 30deg bevel and the other way gives a 60deg bevel.

J


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## tel (Dec 31, 2011)

> Tel, good to see you are still keeping an eye on things - that's a nice set you have there and an impressive looking bracket - cast or fabricated?



Fabricated matey, turn a ring, cut it in arf, and go from there!


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## steamer (Dec 31, 2011)

Love the filing rest Ramon!  Great job on the parts!

It's coming along great!

Dave


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## Ramon (Dec 31, 2011)

Hi guy's It's a bit late to post the latest progress tonight but I would just like to say thanks to all those who have responded since I began on here - you have made me feel very welcome . 

The comments recieved so far as well as all those silent ones who obviously just enjoy looking make contributing an enjoyable extension of the time spent in the workshop. On that note then I'd like to wish you all a very Happy and most productive New Year for 2012.

The engine is now at the 'home run stage' - exhaust done and inlet well underway so will see you in the new year with last years news (Tomorrow that is  )

All the Very Best

Ramon


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## Ramon (Jan 1, 2012)

Happy New Year everyone - 

Tel, I can see you are a man of few words but much wisdom  'Cheers mate'

Andy - Jason has summed it up exactly though in this case the gears were 1.5 to 1 but the principle is the same

Dave that little filing rest is a boon at times - strange thing is those hardened rollers simply will not roll at all as a file touches them but will roll instantly if theres some emery or wet and dry under the file ???

After some prep work on the base for the new extension to the workshop and a couple of hours or so of leaf collecting duties I managed to get into the workshop this afternoon very keen to get on - too keen as you will see :

First though as mentioned previously I have long felt the need to improve the 'tapping facilities' and particularly so for the very small taps. For years, and more by luck than judgement, I have got away with using a very small flat bar type wrench that locates a small flat ground on the side of the tap toward the bottom of the shank. After drilling on the mill this is then held lightly in the drill chuck and the hole tapped by hand using the drill chuck as a (loose) guide to keep the tap vertical.

With the exhaust flanges done it was time to make some nuts (8BA thread 9BA outer) and another perennial problem. In the past nuts were always tackled by drilling a deepish hole into some hex bar, tapping as deep as possible then parting off. Parting off is always affected by the helix of the thread and there then follows an awkward second op to debur the back of the nut.

It was time to improve matters on both counts ... and this worked really well ;D

A brass bush about 25mm long was drilled to suit the tap shank - in this case #35 2.8mm (why is it taps never seem to have a consistent standard in shank sizes) and gripped firmly in the chuck. The tap shank was just a nice slide fit in this bush. The small piece of steel had a groove milled in to just take the hex blanks which had been pre-drilled, parted off and chamferred on each face. The tap wrench is just a slice of MS 16mm diameter about 5mm thick and gives more than sufficient torque for the task as well as giving far greater sensitivity. I found I could do four nuts at a time letting each one ride up the tap then sliding the next one along. In short a real big improvement from the previous method. Another bonus with this 'circular wrench' is that tapping is carried out using one hand. Also, in the smaller sizes theres probably no need for a flat on the tap the grub screw grip being more than adequate - any slippage possibly even providing a 'safety' factor. I can now see a series of such wrenches on the cards 







The exhaust has been kept simple - the engine will probably only run once a year so it can be extended then if required





With that finished it was time to get on with the inlet. The original engine as designed by Anthony Mount had the inlet steam coming up through the centre of one of the columns through a cavity in the table top and up into the steam chest, the exhaust exiting by a similar route down another column. Whether this was true to prototype I have no idea but it does seem a rather good way to condense the steam before it gets to the steam chest ???
It was decided to fit a more conventional one that would hopefully look in keeping.

Heres some pics of the progress...

The upright was soldered up to save material 

























The hole for the throttle bar was bored to ensure a good fit and concentricity. I've had the crude looking boring bar for the best part of forty years - its done countless bores over that period but gets thinner each time - a real favourite tool 





Tapping again - this time 12BA using a small piece of 1/8 brass tube - much better than relying on loosely nipped chuck jaws





'Less haste more speed' however...... These two sides are 90degrees out of phase  oh: 





Fortunately there was enough left to come off the remaining sides to elicit a repair










Cleaned up and parted off it's ready for the next stage so more on that later





As usual hope theres something there for someone to make use of.


Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Jan 1, 2012)

That's odd Ramon...my rollers turn just fine!
Odd
try using less oil on the rollers.......?

Your work is awesome as usual!

Dave


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## AussieJimG (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank you Ramon, the useful information just keeps pouring in - now all I have to do is remember it. Your method of tapping nuts is just superb; I have never seen anything like it before but it is one of those things that make me say "that's obvious" - high praise. And the use of brass tube as a bearing for tapping is equally ingenious.

I have now arrived at the point, having read the thread from the beginning, that I will have to go back and do it all again with a pen in my hand. I think that is one of the important things I have learned from your thread.

That said, I hope you have a happy and productive 2012 and I look forward to more inspiring posts to keep me sane.

Jim


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## AndyB (Jan 4, 2012)

More and more stunning! :bow:

Jason, a belated thank you for the explanation. :bow: I see it all now... :big:

Andy


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## lazylathe (Jan 4, 2012)

Holy Cow!!!!!!!!!! ;D

I looked in at the beginning and must have missed a few pages!!
Just finished catching up and everything you have done just blows me away!! :bow:

All the pictures and explanations and set ups are great!!!

Do you have a thread here for the machines you are using??
Looks like your mill is CNC?
Would love to have a look around your shop! Pictures of course!! :big:

Andrew


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## awJCKDup (Jan 4, 2012)

Ramon, can I ask how you got the surface finish to look like it was cast? Sandblast ?
Great work here, very nice.

John


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## ShedBoy (Jan 4, 2012)

Great work :bow: :bow: :bow:

Brock


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## ref1ection (Jan 4, 2012)

Still enjoying the ride and soaking up all the great tips. Your mistakes look better than my successes. ;D

Ray


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## Jasonb (Jan 5, 2012)

awJCKDup  said:
			
		

> Ramon, can I ask how you got the surface finish to look like it was cast? Sandblast ?John



See earlier, though Ramon also uses glass bead blasting on his IC crankcases
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=16453.msg170725#msg170725

Lazylathe, its all manual machining.

J


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## Ramon (Jan 5, 2012)

Hi guy's, just come in to post some details for 'Firebird' on another thread and caught up with this.

Jason has beat me to it John but yes it's no more than using a Burgess engraver. Cor! those things make a racket.
The idea of using this to create this effect came from a conversation with that late, great, model maker Ron Jervis at a model exhibition. When I comented on how he had produced such a lovely casting effect he revealed all. 

Andrew, I have no CNC - I wish, well perhaps not, I don't think I could give the time to learning how to do it all - again (I came to CNC in my last four years of working) I have just a smalll Linley mill and a Super Seven lathe plus a drill press and 5"and 8" off hand grinders. Theres a little Kennedy power hacksaw and a small burgess bandsaw. The Kenedy is rarely used but the burgess I couldn't live without.

Most of the accessories have been made or gradually purchased over the years but nothing special

It all lives in a 14 x 14 ft wood workshop. It's warm and dry and I spend most of my time in there that I can  and where I'm now off to . Once the last parts of the Waller are completed I'll have a tidy up and post some pics of it.

The steam inlet didn't quite work out as sketched out as it fouled the valve gear but that has been solved and the part is still being worked on. I have been able to couple it up to air properly though and am pleased to say it will tick over steadily at less than 50 RPM without hunting. That big flywheel helping there I guess.

Thanks as usual for all your kind comments and the PMs, I'll be back later with a few more pics of these final stages

Regards - Ramon


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## lazylathe (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info!!
Looking forward to the pics!!

This is the picture that prompted the question.
Now i understand the careful setting up of a rotary table can get these results!
It just looked too perfect! ;D

Andrew


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## Ramon (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi Guys, just a short update on the current state of play. Seems like a lot of time spent the last few days but little to show however it's getting close now just a few small parts to make but I'm beginning to feel the effects of that 'last 5% fatigue syndrome' not tempered by thoughts of future projects :


As mentioned previously the OD steam inlet valve was a might too tight





But by reducing it's length and fettling a shade off the rear face plus a tad off the valve rod arm it just scrapes in. (This is at the bottom of the stroke)





It's even tighter here - haven't measured the gap but it's close. Wide enough however 





The throttle rod, made from stainless was a devil to turn. Not particularly tough but bent all over the place as the stresses were relieved. Never considered it at the time but can stainless be stress relieved? Easily, at home, that is. It's not a material I am very familiar with in that quarter. With some judicious tweaking in the vice and a little applied science  it straightened enough to be acceptable and usable. It turns freely enough and there's an O ring behind the end cover to help seal things.

The rest of the time has been spent sorting out the inlet pipework.





The globe valve body was one made several years ago but not used. Finishing it off and finalising the coupling through to the governor are all that's left constructionally - just the oilers, paintwork and a proper base are left after that.





The workshop extension arrived today and is up and erected to the back of the current one. Destined for a shot blast cabinet and honing machine it'll be a while before things can get established in that quarter however. It is all happening though - even if it is 'slowly' Thm:

Regards for now - Ramon


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## vcutajar (Jan 6, 2012)

Amazing detail work Ramon.


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## Ramon (Jan 7, 2012)

"I don't think we need to go shopping this week dear" - No?, really? well... faster than a speeding bullet I was in there, lathe on and ready to go :big: :big:

Had a good day playing and finished off the globe valve and inlet - heres some pics of the sequence........

The top and the threaded boss to be. The thin rod is 1/16 brazing rod. 






First bend. This is the second attempt - on the first the thin bar got too hot and distorted and then I went and bent it the wrong way oh:





Much better and looking promising





The small circular wrench was pressed into service again but proved insufficient leverage for the 6BA (used) tap in the brass





A short spigot was turned up to keep the parts in line. Though not close to the area to be soldered it was blacked up by heating and dipping in oil several times to prevent possible accidental soldering.










Fluxed up ready for soldering





Parted off from the parent rod it was still held on the steel spigot and this used for cleaning up the back face





Ready for final cleaning up and having the casting effect applied - actual size is 14.4mm major dia with 6BA thread





Ready for assembly. The spindle is turned from an electric arc stainless welding rod (Flux removed first of course ). This turned reasonably well without distorting unlike the material used for the throttle rod





Trial assembly to the pipework










And a trial fit to the engine. Try as I might and despite two separate goes I could not get one pic of the valve to come out in focus - too much background to deal with I guess. I'm not sure about the hand wheel - it seems a mite over scale but it may look better once the pipes are lagged. This is as far as the inlet side of things can go now until the engine is mounted on it's proper base.





Well, to coin a phrase 'it's now on the last knockings' - just those governor/throttle linkage parts to do.

Back a bit later then

Regards for now - Ramon


----------



## pete (Jan 7, 2012)

Ramon,
Your whole engine build is some of the best work of this type I've seen on any forum.

Pete


----------



## lazylathe (Jan 7, 2012)

Amazing work and attention to detail throughout the whole build!!! ;D

This is a great journey to follow!
Lots has been learnt along the way!!!

Thanks Ramon!!! :bow:

Andrew


----------



## AussieJimG (Jan 7, 2012)

A superb job Ramon, so many lessons. Thank you.

Jim


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## steamer (Jan 7, 2012)

I've pondered how to make that kind of valve in miniature....brilliant!

Dave


----------



## Harold Lee (Jan 7, 2012)

Your attention to detail is incredible. You are sure an inspiration to me and I believe many others on this board. I am in awe of your work!

Harold


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## gbritnell (Jan 7, 2012)

Excellent work as usual Ramon. 
gbritnell


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## Jasonb (Jan 8, 2012)

Very nice Ramon, good to see I'm not the only one with a couple of rusty toolmakers clamps for soldering.

J


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## Ken I (Jan 8, 2012)

Great work - I just love the tips and tricks that enter my head from threads like this one - great stuff.

Ken


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 9, 2012)

Ramon:

The valve looks great. The hand wheel looks OK, but it might not look so massive if it had spokes instead of being solid.

Just something to think about,
Don


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## ChooChooMike (Jan 9, 2012)

:bow: :bow: :bow: That valve looks right at home on the steam ship I volunteer one !! WONDERFUL !!!


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## Ramon (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi guys, once again my thanks to all for your kind and appreciative comments. 

Don, The handwheel was finished late in the evening but that was my thinking too - just a bit late in the day to get it done. This pic is of another valve I made for a double diagonal engine - which I think, definitely looks more in keeping so I shall make another and spoke it. 




Now, having made a 'mistake' several years ago having put 6 bolts in a flange when I was duly informed it should only be 4 or eight - what would be correct - three, four or more spokes?


I have little to report save for one small part but I was pleased with the result.

The throttle arm support bearing on the original AM design is just a small slab of 1/8 bar stood vertically with the bearing hole drilled through. It was felt that this would have been a small casting on the fullsize so this is what transpired......

After considering a composite - three parts, silver soldering, JB Weld etc it was decided to mill and turn it from solid
Began with a small block 15 x 12 x 10mm





After squaring up it was set at a 2 degree angle to mill the feet with a 'draft angle' . The 5mm FC3 cutter has had the corners 'radiused' by hand on the offhand grinder










The cross hole was drilled after carefully measuring the distance from the entablature to the centreline of the throttle rod but less carefully adding the two dimensions together and missing a whole mil off oh:





It was held on a small 4.0mm expanding mandrel and the housing each side turned, again at a 2 degree draft angle
then the surplus material was cut off on the bandsaw and the profile shaped by linishing and finally filing.





A 1.0mm shim was milled from the same material and bonded on with JB Weld then filed to flare in. 





And a coat of primer brought it to life





Finally fitted with a bush there's a hint of shades to come. This looks much 'greener' than it actually is. It's 'Vauxhall Reed Green' and which is quite a pale shade. (Must be down to the lighting) Wife likes it though Thm: 





It's going to take some very careful measuring - very careful given the last time :-[ - for drilling the bolt holes to position it correctly as theres very little room for opening the bolt holes to allow a degree of lateral movement.

It's a simple part and certainly easy to machine but one which has given a fair degree of satisfaction.

As usual hope thats of interest for someone.


Regards - Ramon


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## Ken I (Jan 11, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> As usual hope thats of interest for someone.



Hell yes ! - that's engineering artistry !

From a "block with a hole in it" - to that !

Your attention to detail continues to fascinate me and encourages me to do better.

Ken


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## doubletop (Jan 11, 2012)

I looked at this thread when it was first posted and to be frank the early references to "JB weld" put me off, thinking that it was going to be spread around liberally like modeling clay. How wrong can first impressions be? I now know what I've been missing, I'm sure we are all learning something through this thread.

_Note to self - get some JB Weld..............._

Pete


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## peatoluser (Jan 11, 2012)

That blocks almost a model in itself!
such attention to detail. I wouldn't have even thought of rounding the corners of a cutter or maching in the draft angles.
I guess like a lot of people here, can't wait to see the finished engine.

was the expanding mandrel shop made? love to see a photo

peter


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## ref1ection (Jan 11, 2012)

There hasn't been a post yet where I didn't learn something. I'm really looking forward to seeing the completed model.

Ray


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## pete (Jan 11, 2012)

Well I do want to see the completed model, But I'll also not be all that happy to see the end of this build, I've picked up a huge amount and have thoroughly enjoyed it. 

Pete


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## Path (Jan 11, 2012)

*Real nice job ... looking for MORE!* :big:


Pat H.


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## AussieJimG (Jan 11, 2012)

Like Pete, I am enjoying the journey. I am not sure that I am actually learning things that _I_ could do but I am certainly learning what _can _be done. For me it is a regular dose of humility and wonderment. 

Thanks a million

Jim


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## Ramon (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi Guys, Thanks as always for the comments, it is good to receive this feedback and hear that it is proving beneficial.

I confess I hadn't considered the possibility of how Pete (Doubletop) first saw it (or indeed others) with reference to the JB Weld. I know some of us can be very unprepared to accept the use of modern materials - Loctite, epoxies etc - in what are after all replicas of a bygone age but I look at it from the perspective in that were those materials available in those days they probably would have been used. I wouldn't personally advocate JBW from a structural point of view (though I'm sure it would surprise us if it were) but to use it for cosmetic reasons to simulate a cast effect seems - to me - to be a fair use. After all, once that coat of paint goes on the surface beneath could be made of anything. It's a good point though Pete and I'm pleased you raised it (but even more pleased that you appear won over )

Peter (Peatoluser) the expanding mandrel was home made and featured back when doing the rocker shaft bearings. I now have quite a collection of these from 4mm upwards. All are expanded by a 60 degree tapered caphead bolt - this one uses 8BA - and exert considerable pressure on the workpiece with very little torque on the screw. These smaller ones are used in collets which makes them in most part re-useable but the larger ones, normally held in the three jaw are turned each time to suit in order to ensure concentricity. I find this easier than using a four jaw as even then they can be difficult to get exactly right, radially and axially. They are so quick to make it's easier to reduce them slightly each time, occasionally making a new one when nothing is suitable.

This is the one used above.






This one was used on the eccentric, the screw in this case 2BA





Just to recap - the hole is tapped and deeply centred with a centre drill and the OD roughed to within .5mm or so before slots are put in. Insert the screw and just nip up before turning the OD to a good fit in the workpiece.


I have had a day of distractions today so very little progress on those last few parts : - "Maybe tomorrow Jack" 


Regards for now - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jan 14, 2012)

Hi again guy's, thought you would like to know that as of about an hour ago the engine is now 'constructionally' finished :big: 

There is still some fitting out to do after painting - ie the odd few studs and nuts and a few oilers to make plus the proper base of course but there is nothing left to make for the actual engine itself :big: :big:

These last few parts for the governor linkage are not difficult things to make but can be a bit awkward to hold. Here's a few pics of the process - nothing new but someone might gain something.

First off was the link rod and this was kept on the parent block as long as possible



































The sliding rocker arm was dealt with the same way.





The filing buttons were hardened as they were unable to roll. I have a few used needle files kept specially for this purpose as they do eventually suffer a bit on the hard surface 





The boss was held on a small (3mm) mandrel for turning before filing the bottom end with more buttons





Ready to fit - the slot is about 12mm long






The rocker arms were even smaller and tapered. After some consideration I decide to make these from slices of round bar turning the bosses and finishing the bores on the lathe first then milling the profile using the rotary table to attain the angles. A bit wasteful of material but they were only thin slices and did provide excellent workholding ..........

More pics then (well you did say you like 'em )






















I'm not certain if there's a limit on a posting/images so as theres a few more will break this here and continue on another. I'd like to finish this off tonight if I can.

Regards - Ramon


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## Ramon (Jan 14, 2012)

Hi again, To follow on then....

To prevent any likely nipping on the link arm I decided to use a split pin .

First off was to make a small jig to cross drill the .5mm hole (Pin is 2mm dia.)





Next was to make the split pin. I used some 1/64 silver steel - yes, you are reading that right - and reduced the section to half round by clamping to a block of mild steel, pulling it as tight as possible, then scraping it with a piece of HSS before finishing it with a file. It was bent round a drill shank and nipped up with some small pliers - it's about 4mm long.















At last, with some guide pins turned from a piece of hardish bronze welding rod and Loctited into the arms it could all be brought together





And finally, quickly assembled on the engine to see if it all worked freely enough. 





First thoughts are that a spring may have to be fitted to help return the governor as the balls don't appear heavy enough but that I'm afraid is now going to have to wait quite a while...........

Within a few days I'm off to hospital for some surgery which, I'm told, will not allow me back into the workshop for several weeks, possiby longer. I wanted to get the engine finished before this happened and I have managed to acheive that with a few days to spare but the finishing is going to have to wait now for quite some time. 

I would just like to thank all those who have taken an interest in this 'tale' so far and for your kind words and encouragement over the journey. 'All things being equal' I will be back for that 'final chapter' as soon as I can. 

Regards - Ramon


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## ozzie46 (Jan 14, 2012)

Extremely well done. :bow: :bow: :bow:

 I really liked your' way of making those links. Came just in time as I am making various rods and links for my "Simplex" loco and as you say they are difficult to hold. Thanks for showing it.

  Will be praying for a quick recovery from your' surgery and that all goes well.

 Ron


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## vcutajar (Jan 14, 2012)

Get well soon Ramon. I'm dying to see it working.


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## metalmad (Jan 14, 2012)

Best wishes Mate
Get well soon
Pete


----------



## ref1ection (Jan 14, 2012)

It's been a great build to watch with lots of interesting pictures. Thank you for including us in the build. Best wishes for a quick recovery.

Ray


----------



## SBWHART (Jan 14, 2012)

Excelent thread Ramon I think we have all learnt something from it,

All the best with the hospital job hope all goes well and you make a swift recovery

Stew


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## bearcar1 (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you so very much for taking us on this ride Ramon, and know that I am wishing you a speedy and uneventful recovery. Your work is inspirational and the photo coverage has been priceless. Cheers my friend and may the good Lord watch over you in your journeys. :bow:


BC1
Jim


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## pete (Jan 14, 2012)

Ramon,
Good luck with the surgery, A speedy recovery, And I'll second everyone elses comments also.

Pete


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## Captain Jerry (Jan 14, 2012)

Nice job Ramon!  This thread will be re-read and referred to many times. The bar of excellence, always high on this forum, has just been kicked up a few notches. Your great photos and clear descriptions make it seem within the reach of anyone and will encourage all of us to try more and to aim a bit higher. Thanks for that. Seriously!

Good luck with the surgery. Don't let the shop absence clutter your mind. Recovery is a process that takes time and is much easier if you avoid frustration.

Jerry


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## AussieJimG (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you Ramon, your work is a real inspiration. You are a class act.

May I add my best wishes for successful surgery and a speedy recovery.

Jim


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## Jasonb (Jan 15, 2012)

Great job Ramon, Having made 0.5mm split pins myself it't good to see you used similar methods to hold the work, another source for 0.5mm stock is the stitching wire (staples) from the sunday suppliments.

Hope all goes well and you can get back in the shop soon, expect it wont stop you mentally going through the machining processes of the next project though.

J


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## terryd (Jan 15, 2012)

Hi Ramon,

I'd just like to add my best wishes for a swift recovery,

Best regards

Terry


----------



## ChrisLister (Jan 15, 2012)

Lovely engine thread with a high level of finishing.

I like the valve you made a lot. Are there drawings of the valve?

Many thanks,

Chris


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## steamer (Jan 15, 2012)

Best wishes on a swift recovery and little discomfort!

The engine is looking beautiful and it'll still be there when you get back.

Dave


----------



## AndyB (Jan 15, 2012)

Best wishes on a speedy recovery Ramon.

If there is anything I can do just shout.

Andy


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## tel (Jan 15, 2012)

> Within a few days I'm off to hospital for some surgery which, I'm told, will not allow me back into the workshop for several weeks, possiby longer. I wanted to get the engine finished before this happened and I have managed to acheive that with a few days to spare but the finishing is going to have to wait now for quite some time.



 I had six weeks out in '03 with heart surgery - very frustrating. Get better soon!


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## miner49r (Jan 16, 2012)

Here I am. Late for the party as usual. I am learning that this hobby is all about work holding and you have demonstrated some fine techniques.
Gods speed with your recovery.

Alan


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## Lesmo (Jan 20, 2012)

Well it has all been said, and I applaud every word, you not only have an exceptional talent, but the patience and ability to impart your techniques to others. Heres wishing you well and looking forward to your speedy return.

Les    :bow: :bow:


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## lazylathe (Jan 20, 2012)

A great thread to follow!!!! ;D
Excellent work and amazing pictures that do a lot of explaining!!! Thm:
I am sure a lot of us have learnt something from you and will refer back to this thread!

A speedy recovery for you from the surgery!!!
What will you do with all your time away from the shop?? :big:
R&R is a good thing!!!

Thank you for the wonderful journey!
Looking forward to the completion and the video!!!! ;D

Andrew


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## Ramon (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi everyone, I hope I am doing this right as I am working to hazy instructions dictated by a very drowsy man from his hospital bed!
Ramon wishes to thank you all for your kind thoughts, best wishes, and messages of support. He would like you to know that his op has been completed successfully, and he will be back on here just as soon as he gets home again - which hopefully will be early next week.
Regards, Sue


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## Path (Jan 26, 2012)

*Thanks for the update Sue. 

Great to hear that all went well ... keep us posted. Thm:

Best wishes ...*


Pat H.


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## bearcar1 (Jan 26, 2012)

That is terrific news Sue and thank-you so very much for relaying. Let Ramon know that he has been on our minds and look forward to seeing him back in action, that is *ONLY* after the doctors say he may do so. Be sure he gets his rest and best regards.

BC1
Jim


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## AussieJimG (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you Sue, that is good news. We will wait patiently for more of _our _medicine. There is no hurry, the important thing is to do it right (the way Ramon does things in the workshop)

Jim


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## miner49r (Jan 27, 2012)

Glad to hear Ramon will be good as new. Tell him we will be making chips for him in his absence.
Alan


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## tel (Jan 27, 2012)

Ramon  said:
			
		

> Hi everyone, I hope I am doing this right as I am working to hazy instructions dictated by a very drowsy man from his hospital bed!
> Ramon wishes to thank you all for your kind thoughts, best wishes, and messages of support. He would like you to know that his op has been completed successfully, and he will be back on here just as soon as he gets home again - which hopefully will be early next week.
> Regards, Sue



Thanks Sue - you did it right! Give Ramon my best as well!


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## SBWHART (Jan 27, 2012)

Great to her Ramon is on the mend give him all our best.

Stew


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## steamer (Jan 27, 2012)

Path  said:
			
		

> *Thanks for the update Sue.
> 
> Great to hear that all went well ... keep us posted. Thm:
> 
> ...




DITTO!  Do what you have to do Ramon....and Sue! ;D
We'll be here!

Dave


----------



## ozzie46 (Jan 27, 2012)

Great to hear he is doing well. Give him our best for a speedy recovery.


 Ron


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## Ramon (Feb 2, 2012)

Well guy's after a bit of a roller coaster ride I finally got home on Tuesday but this is the first time I've been allowed by Sue, who is adopting her best 'Nurse Catheter' impression, anyware near this thing.

The op has been a success and the long term outlook is very good Thm: Thm: so I would just like to say thanks for all those good wishes, both before and post op, they really mean a great deal.

I think it would be a fair description to say the 'old boiler' has been well and truly 're- tubed' but it's going to be some time before there's a lick of flame in the firebox. On that note then I'm going to take Cap'n Jerry's advice and that of the Med team who were at pains to insist things don't get overdone in the coming weeks (not to mention the beady eye of the resident nurse ) but as soon as I'm able I'll get back onto that 'final chapter'.

Please don't feel there's a need to respond to this you've all done enough already - really. Just wanted you to know I will be back as soon as I can

Regards - Ramon


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## vcutajar (Feb 2, 2012)

Welcome back home.


----------



## ChrisLister (Feb 2, 2012)

Yep, welcome back and take care of yourself.

Chris


----------



## Jeff L (Feb 2, 2012)

Welcome back


----------



## lazylathe (Feb 2, 2012)

welcome back Ramon!

Take good heed of the Dr's and your wife's direction!!! th_rulze
They know best!!!

Andrew


----------



## miner49r (Feb 2, 2012)

Ramon,
You're a lucky man to have Nurse Catheter by your side. You mind her and get your rest. There is plenty of time to get back in the play room after you have healed.
Alan


----------



## AndyB (Feb 3, 2012)

Welcome back Ramon and thank you Sue for the update. We met last year at Forncett and we are not far away, so shout if we can do anything. Ramon's got our number.

Best wishes

Andy and Miranda


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## Don1966 (Feb 11, 2012)

Ramon I have just read you thread and would like to say that I am glad you are doing OK. This thread has been a fascinating journey and a real learning lesson for me since I am a newbie. Your attention to detail is fascinating and very inspiring. Please keep up your teaching and well documented thread and never feel you are over doing,some of us are not as talented as you and your teaching will help us get there.

Best Regards Don


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## steamer (Feb 11, 2012)

Hey Ramon,

I jump in and read every time you post....PLEASE keep it coming....with lots of detail!

I love it!

Dave


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## Ramon (Mar 2, 2012)

Well guy's after what seemed like I'd never get there I finally got back to a few hours a day in the 'retreat' this week gone. 

Before we get into that though I would just like to say a *big* thank you for all your kind comments over this thread so far. What you don't know is that my/our worries began just a few days before I made my first post on this site. Posting on here and focusing on it on a daily basis really helped take my mind off things - you all know what I mean I'm sure - and with all your input it proved a real God send. I'm pleased to say though that worst fears have not been met, the outlook as good as it can be at 67 and despite a significant loss to the 'inards' I've recovered well and though tiring quickly definitely am feeling a bit better each day - I'm workshop bound at last then 

The re-start began by edging the base with some decent wood. The base proper was made quite a while ago and consists of two layers of kitchen work top, the surface of which has a very subtle but patternless textured surface. The cut out for the flywheel which is quite deep was milled out with a long series end mill on each piece and a rebate cut for edging with some dummy 'bricks' at a later stage. Not having any clamps large enough the drill press was pressed (excuse the pun) into service along with some weighty blocks of metal.






The wood is just on 80mm wide and considered to be too wide for a decent mitre to be cut so the corners will be filled in with corner 'posts' and faired off. 

Then it was time to strip the engine down....and start prepping for painting. 





All the parts and particularly the previously primed parts were washed in a very hot solution of water and 'Citri-Cleen' a very efficient biodegradeble degreaser to ensure no traces of oil were left in the primed surfaces. 
Then the fun bit - masking up. 
Time was, masking was considered a real pain, something to be got over as quick as possible so that painting could begin. Then, after returning some time back to some serious plastic modelling it soon became clear that the masking is actually the important bit. Getting that right is worth all the effort, the act of the painting itself is the minor part,to a degree that is - well that's how it's perceived now and masking is no longer the chore it used to be. 

One thing I did find here though was it's much easier to cut the masking tape around an outline using a fine file than a scalpel. This proved much quicker and left a far more consistent edge.





Some of the parts were used as simple masks too, the over spray being cleaned off with thinner before they too were primed seperately





Three good coats were applied, the first two being rubbed down with very fine scotch brite and the last smoothed using a 'microfibre' polishing cloth. These will now be left for a couple of days - well until the next warmish day that is - before the top coat is applied. I'm still having doubts about the colour so a revisit to Halfords paint section is on the cards.




BTW the copper/brass parts in the background have had self etch primer thinly applied using a brush. These too will be left to allow the etch to really get a grip - apparently if a top coat is applied too soon the etching action ceases.

The small blocks are also a carry over from plastic modelling. Small pieces of white faced particle board are ideal for this and with the parts held in place with Blue Tack or similar, make handling so much easier.





Well that's as far as today got - waiting for paint to dry - well harden - can try your patience but I'm sure you'd agree painting should never be rushed. It might therefore be 'a day or two' before there's something else to report but I can tell this for certain - it _is_ nice to be back.   ;D

Regards to you all - Ramon

PS If you are reading this Stew seems I missed your Project of the Month award for your Popcorn engine- Well done and congratulations - well deserved Thm: Thm: Thm:


----------



## SBWHART (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks Ramon:- I think this engine will be a contender.

I always learn somthing for your post's this time it was about leaving the etch primer to do its job.

Cheers

Stew


----------



## miner49r (Mar 2, 2012)

Welcome back Ramon,
  Glad that you took your time healing from your procedure. NOW GET BACK TO WORK!
 ;D


----------



## steamer (Mar 2, 2012)

Good to hear from you Ramon!

Day by day bud, day by day.

dave


----------



## Jasonb (Mar 2, 2012)

Good to see you back in the workshop and posting again Ramon. Plan to do the base for the Benso this weekend so we are at a similar stage.

J


----------



## AussieJimG (Mar 2, 2012)

Welcome back Ramon, it's good to know that you are on the mend.

And my lessons continue - this time about painting. I realised how far behind I am when I read that you finish rubbing down the undercoat with a microfibre cloth. I do know that the quality of the finish depends mostly on the preparation but I had never thought to go to those lengths.
Thank you

Jim


----------



## Don1966 (Mar 2, 2012)

Welcome back Ramon, :big: I am glad to see the lessons continue. You just keep amazing me with your skills and professionalism. You should be writing a book on what you know. The Shop wisdom of Ramon series and I really mean that with a good heart. I would buy your first book. Please stay healthy and continue your thread. I want to see your engine run.

Kind Regards Don


----------



## ozzie46 (Mar 2, 2012)

Welcome back Ramon.

  Regarding the masking, I found some masking tape that has a barrier that is activated by the paint to stop paint from bleeding under the edge of the tape. Found out about it on a home improvement site. I's called "Frog" tape and is green. I got it at Lowes. Masked off and repainted my stairs and was amazed at how clean the edges were when I took the tape off. Worked excellent with Latex paint. I haven't tried anything else yet. 


 Ron


----------



## ref1ection (Mar 2, 2012)

Good to see you back in the shop Ramon and on the mend. There's still many days of updates left on this one and then we get to watch your next project take shape. 

Ray


----------



## Ramon (Mar 15, 2012)

Hi Guy's just a small update - I'm afraid theres not much progress watching paint dry :.

But first my thanks as usual for your response ...

Looking forward to seeing the Benson up and running Jason - looks like you will be ahead of me by a couple of weeks, you are so close to the end too.

Don 1966 - That's a very nice thing to say and I'm touched by your confidence :-[. I'm afraid though I don't see myself in quite the same way, just someone doing what he loves and passing it on to those who may gain some benefit and hopefully, by input from others, learn something myself. 

Ozzie - Thanks for the tip - I have read of 'Frog' tape but have as yet to see any. 

I should perhaps have made it a little clearer re masking that when masking something up like these parts I find it's fine to use conventional, household masking tape to mask unpainted areas but where there are previously painted areas to mask then a much thinner, lower tack tape would be used. The _very_ best I have used for this purpose is what was called 'Betto' tape. This was a tan coloured tape, very thin and capable of being cut into extremely thin strips without disintegrating. It was replaced by a white coloured tape - still with the same name but nowhere as good as the tan stuff. A good alternative is 'Tamiya' tape. This yellow coloured tape can be cut similarly but doesn't quite have the strength as the original Betto. It's readily available at most model shops though and if bought in the 40mm wide roll as opposed to the narrower rolls in dispensers is very economical. 

One little tip on masking that some may find useful. Instead of using news paper or similar to mask out areas from over spray consider using ordinary kitchen tinfoil. This is totally impervious to the solvents and is easilly wrapped around any shape with ease. Make sure you buy your own though 


Whilst it was intended to edge the flywheel pit with 'bricks' as mentioned on the last post no real thought had been given as to what to make them from. After a fair bit of poking around under the bench for something suitable it occurred that perhaps they could be made from MDF board which is what was used for the 'stone' plinth. The edge of a piece of board was sanded to a suitable section on the two 'as seen' faces then cut off on the band saw. Treated gently as it easily snaps in thin sections the inner face was sanded smooth then the strips sealed using very thin cellulose 'Sanding Sealer'. This was then cut into brick sized lengths which were milled to length to give a good uniform fit in the rebate
















Once dry fitted they were removed and all given a second coat of sealer before being painted and left ready to fit using PVA glue.

The first hint of a warm day and it was time for the top coat. All painting was done using aerosols. Priming including the plinth used about two and a half 300ml cans and the two topcoats just under two cans of the same size

Again, some masking utilised the parts themselves.. the bearings will be washed in cellulose thinner to remove the paint





Taken tonight, this is where patience will be sorely tried as though touch dry they need to harden off for at least a couple of days before reassembly. The keen eyed might note that 3-2-1 blocks truly are versatile 





The base as finished and ready to fit those 'bricks' tomorrow





The plinth, three layers of 18mm MDF board is very solid, no glue just four screws hold the layers together. The grooves were cut using a hand saw against a straight edge. Pleased with the colour of the primer the surface will be oiled and left as is. The out rigger bearing plinth has yet to be made as it's thickness will need to be ascertained after the engine is securely bolted in position





Well another small step, but getting closer. The interim time has been spent on drawing out a new I/C engine but more on that later 

Regards for now - Ramon


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## bearcar1 (Mar 15, 2012)

It is good to see you back in the saddle Ramon. Hooray! Your inventiveness in achieving scale, real-life pieces from household goods is incredible and fun to watch.

Regards

BC1
Jim


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## Don1966 (Mar 15, 2012)

Ramon glad to see back :bow: great work, you are getting so close to finishing. I am just like a little kid and very anxious to see the completed engine. Your paint job has taught me things I would of never thought of, your talents keeps us searching for your new post.

Regards Don


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## ref1ection (Mar 15, 2012)

Looking great Ramon. Really interesting to see your use materials for the stonework. Also, I'm glad to hear you have another one in the works.

Ray


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## Ramon (Mar 17, 2012)

Well, the old patience finally ran out this morning : so spent the day polishing nuts, fitting studs and sundry other little things like drilling the oil holes in the main bearings as the re-assembly began. It's all going well so far but getting the valve set right without damaging the paintwork should prove a challenge. The initial set up saw several steam chest removals to get it right which was a right pain with the attendant rocker shaft and bearing blocks. The eccentric is still locked in position and the valve rod marked so with luck it should be somewhere near.

Any way here's how it stands at end of play today - should give you an idea of how it will look - hopefully it will be finished this week all being well. ;D






That's all for now - back in a day or two

Regards - Ramon


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## AussieJimG (Mar 17, 2012)

It is certainly living up to expectations. What a lovely job.

Jim


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## Harold Lee (Mar 17, 2012)

Ramon - Your workmanship is just astounding.... This project is almost beyond words.... Keep up the good work and it is good to have you working on it again.

Harold


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## smfr (Mar 17, 2012)

Fantastic! Can't wait to see this one run!


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## Jasonb (Mar 18, 2012)

Ramon are you leaving the base as white melamine or going to apply a tile/stone finish?

Its comming along well.

J


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## Ramon (Mar 18, 2012)

'Morning Jason, Actually its not white melamine though it certainly looks like it in the pic. The colour is a very light tan and yes I have decided to leave it as such. I was going to paint it the usual (for me) rusty red that previous bases have been painted but I felt that might clash a bit besides - the 'govenor' likes it and it is for her after all 

Ramon


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## tel (Mar 18, 2012)

Very, very impressive indeed! Something for us lesser mortals to aspire towards.


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## gbritnell (Mar 18, 2012)

What a beautiful looking engine. The base is outstanding. It's amazing what a fellow can make out of found materials.
gbritnelll


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## Don1966 (Mar 18, 2012)

Very good Ramon, giving us a peek before completion. I love it what a beautiful work of art.

Don


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## AndyB (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi Ramon,

Glad you are back in the workshop.

I have only just caught up with the state of play and am completely in awe of your talents, both the building and the telling!

I have lost most of my workshop time as Miranda thought it would be a good idea if WE help out at Forncett, so I go nearly every Sunday while she stays in bed!

It is nice to play with the big toys as well as the little ones though. For those who don't know, Forncett Industrial Steam Museum has one of the largest displays of WORKING steam engines in the UK with the largest weighing in at 300 tons!

Andy


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## Captain Jerry (Mar 19, 2012)

I've seen work like this before, but only in museums and fine galleries. I've never seen it in progress like this. Your methods and workmanship almost make it seem possible for anyone to achieve. I know better but still it seems possible. 

Thanks for presenting your methods in such clear detail. I'm not so anxious to see it run. I know it will run. I am just enjoying watch it come together.

Jerry


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## Ramon (Mar 28, 2012)

Well guy's I guess you'll be pleased to hear it's the end of the road at last.

Despite best intentions things got a little dragged out these last few days - nothing serious, touch of 'Man-Flu' - you know how it is, we have to remind 'em how we suffer from time to time  :big:

Anyway it's all finished save a video - I've just set it up for that but the new camera battery has to be charged but that'll give me time to read the destructions ???.

Getting it all back together went reasonably well though there was a hitch getting it to run. Having had it running nicely previously to see it do half a turn and stop at the bottom of the stroke gave cause for concern especially as I couldn't fathom out why the valve kept moving relative to the piston each time. You may recall that the throttle block and valve rocking shaft had to be fettled to get some clearance. Well after tightening the inlet block bolts fully on assembly it moved it enough for it to just catch the rocker shaft and hold it enough to cause the rocking arm lever to move on it's taper. Literally a few strokes of a riffler on the inlet block gave just enough clearance - probably only around a thou or two but a gap is a gap and off it went - phew :

A few last pics then ....

Thought you might like to see one more of the piston packing. Unfortunately the image doesn't convey it's smooth and glassy like surface too well. This is as it was removed from previous running and has bedded in nicely. It went back into the bore with ease without catching and has a lovely seal with very little friction. If an engine is only to run for demonstration and on air at that this is such an ideal way of getting a good piston / liner relation without high tolerance. 






Next up was to get it running again and get some steam oil in to coat the surfaces to prevent the likelyhood of rusting. Two good slugs of oil were injected into the clear tube and the engine run until it worked it's way through and out the exhaust. 










With it all up and running again it was time for the finishing touches - the oilers
The two on the main bearings are 'pseudo' scale like based on some seen in books and do have a small degree of oil flow control. All the others are semi dummies in that they have a hole all the way through to enable oil to be injected but have no cavity to act as a resevoir










Incidentally a good source for the 'glass' on oilers is the near crystal clear tubes that are used as artists paint brush protective covers closely followed by small tool enclosures. Most art shops have a few of the former under the counter normally free for the asking. The more rigid can be parted off simply nipped in the chuck but if a little flimsy they can be held over a ali spigot turned to suit the id. A sharply pointed 'parting' tool has been found best to cut them to length.





A new hand wheel for the stop valve was made and like the previous one was dished. On the Myford S7 setting the top slide over to such an angle means the ball handle interfering with the cross slide handle support. I don't know if this will be of interest for anyone but I get over this by using a 2BA caphead and a ball ended driver






And that was it - a few domed nuts and it was ready for handing over to it's new owner - Sue - I'll let the pics finish it off...............
























































I'll do my best later to get a video - it's a new camera and getting something onto You Tube previously has not been too successful but I will try.

Well to coin a phrase 'That's it Folks'. End of the Line.

My thanks once again to all of you for your kind remarks, input, comment and thoughtfulness throughout. Thanks for the PM's too, posting on here has lead to new 'friends' so once again a big thanks to Tel for getting me 'unbanned' and off my butt to actually post something - it's been a very pleasurable journey indeed and finall, going by the number of visits a thanks to all those silent ones who 'look but don't touch' you must find something worthwhile to keep coming back and that in turn has certainly made it worthwhile for me

Regards to you all - Ramon

PS - Just noticed it's not quite finished - theres a nut missing off the valve rocker arm pivot :


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## pete (Mar 28, 2012)

Well I want to thank you for posting the whole build, I've learned a huge variety of different techniques. And it's a stunning example of machine art in my opinion. :bow:

Pete


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## RonGinger (Mar 28, 2012)

That is as fine a model as I have ever seen. Thanks for doing this entire series. To be able to see the parts built one by one has been very helpful.


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## cfellows (Mar 28, 2012)

Lovely engine! Very nice work.

Chuck


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## kustomkb (Mar 28, 2012)

Outstanding!

What a beautiful model. Thank you for documenting the progress.


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## lazylathe (Mar 28, 2012)

th_confused0052 th_wav th_confused0052

Today is a sad day in the HMEM forum....
This has been such an amazing thread to follow and comment on!
So many new techniques shared.
And the pictures to go with the descriptions were second to none!

At least we have one more post from Ramon on this engine to wait for!
A video of it running!!! ;D

I bet there are a lot of us out there that wish we were as fortunate as Sue is!!! :big:


Now you need to build an extra large display table for Sue to place the engine on!

Thanks for sharing Ramon and it is good to have you back again!!!

Andrew


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## arnoldb (Mar 28, 2012)

Exceptional build Ramon - very well done indeed :bow: :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold


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## Groomengineering (Mar 28, 2012)

Very nice build Ramon, a beautiful engine. :bow:

Cheers

Jeff


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## Path (Mar 28, 2012)

Nice build ... something for me to work towards. th_wav

Hope to see more.


Pat H


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## Jasonb (Mar 28, 2012)

Super job Ramon, I've enjoyed following along and it was worth the wait for the final outcome.

Look forward to reading about the next one even though its going to be an oil burner 

J


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## AussieJimG (Mar 28, 2012)

Thank you Ramon, it has been an inspiring journey all the way and the result is truly a work of art that people will still appreciate in 100 years time.

Your attention to detail is exemplified by the fact that it looks good even in those closeup photos of the finished article.

I will miss my regular dose of Table Engine and look forward to the next one.

Thank you

Jim


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## Ramon (Mar 28, 2012)

Ok hands up which one wanted the video?

I have to confess I'm much more in my comfort zone on the lathe or mill than on techie things but surprise surprise I think I have managed to actually achieve one ;D - the time to upload it though seems well out of all proportion to the length of viewing 

Now, before you all rush off to see it rattling round bear in mind I'm no camera man and what you see is a very definite 'first off'. I found the list of categories very limiting - to those in the know - What would this type of video usually be listed under? I put it under Science and Tecnology but thought the subject rather 'late in the day for that' but nothing else seemed to cover it. I have to say though I am very impressed with the new camera - another Nikon CoolPix - this time an S3100 but the software appears at this stage to be nowhere near as straightforward to use as the old one.

So for what it's worth here it is. The creaking sound at some stage _is_ the workshop door. I have no gauge on the air but pressure is well down, just enough to deflect the skin on your hand, 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkNLvfGuApo&feature=channel]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkNLvfGuApo&feature=channel[/ame]


So there you go guys - the new owner has ensured that nut was fitted so there really can be only just one thing left to say .......

- THE END -​


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## AndyB (Mar 28, 2012)

Fantastic Ramon, I expect that Sue loves it!!!

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Andy


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## ref1ection (Mar 28, 2012)

My hand was up. It's been great fun watching this engine progress and very educational to boot. I, along with others I'm sure, am looking forward to your next build to see what other tricks are up those sleeves. In the end it's an amazing looking and running model and would be a thrill for any of us to show. Hope the next one isn't too far in the future.

Ray


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## vcutajar (Mar 28, 2012)

Ramon, thanks for sharing all your expertise. Amazing work, descriptions and a stunning engine. :bow:

Vince


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## Don1966 (Mar 28, 2012)

Ramon I am breathless, :bow: you have exceed all expectations. I am so jealous,if I could achieve in my life half of your quality of craftsmanship I would be happy. I look forward to you next creation. Excellent job and please gives a video of it running. :bow:

Best regards Don


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## metalmad (Mar 28, 2012)

Hi Ramon
I loved the Video Great work Mate
Pete


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## smfr (Mar 29, 2012)

Great to see this finally running; it's a beautiful runner!

I notice that the governor does a bit of stop-and-start. Is that because of stretching in the (rubber?) belt? It's probably easily fixable though.

But that's minor; this is a fantastic engine.

Simon


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## camm-1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Fantastic beautiful!! :bow:


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## SBWHART (Mar 29, 2012)

Great Engine Ramon a lovely runner.

I learnt a lot from following your build thanks for posting it.

Stew


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## Ken I (Mar 29, 2012)

Truly magnificent Ramon, your attention to detail and refusal to cut any corners on detail and realism is inspiring.

That's a legacy piece.

Ken


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## Ramon (Mar 29, 2012)

'Morning guys, as always I'm appreciative of your comments and support. It is very gratifying to think that others derive some benefit, interest or just plain enjoyment from doing something like this - I know I certainly have.



			
				smfr  said:
			
		

> I notice that the governor does a bit of stop-and-start. Is that because of stretching in the (rubber?) belt? It's probably easily fixable though.



Simon
I don't think this is the belt so much as the governor accelerating ahead of the gear mesh at very low speed then decellerating to get another kick. As soon as the engine speed increases a tad the governor smooths out quite noticeably. The drive belt is from a record deck drive. It's new and whilst it does have some stretch I'm pretty certain it's not the culprit

Andy B - can you check your messages - PM sent


I'm going to take a break for a 'week or two' - theres the garden to think about for a start at this time of the year and also there are inroads to make in that new extension for the bead blaster. However the drawings for the next 5cc scaled up I/C diesel engine (Aw sorry Jason ) are finalised and I'll be glad to share that with you as soon as I can.

Regards for now - Ramon


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## steamer (Mar 29, 2012)

Well Done Ramon!  Get the pesky garden stuff done so I can watch you build another masterpiece! :bow:...

And I'm considering changing my name to Sue! :big:

Dave


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## AndyB (Mar 29, 2012)

Hi Ramon,

PM answered again...just in case you don't get this one either.

Cheers

Andy


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## Lesmo (Apr 11, 2012)

*Hi Ramon

Just caught up with your thread, from the point when you went in for the surgery. I am so pleased that everything turned out positively, and as for the finished product, well it is a real jawdropper, your attention to even tiniest of details is evident in every aspect of the build. That is a machine to be truly proud of, and the build log will be used time and time again for reference by myself and many others, Thanks for the journey. 

Les*   :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## Ramon (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for your kind remarks and thought Les - much appreciated.

It would appear that there is to be an epilogue - I have been reliably informed that it requires a case  :
However I've managed to escape the garden but have 'allowed' myself to get side tracked into some long thought about workshop improvement tied in with that new extension - at the moment it looks absolutely chaotic though it's getting there slowly and the time out should be well worth it. 

Ramon


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## tvoght (Jun 17, 2012)

Reading through the Super Tigre G32 thread, I kept seeing reference's to 'the Table Engine' build. Having had a chance to read this, it is now marked as a must-read and a must re-read. Maybe this late comment will raise awareness in some other relative newcomers. Fantastic, Ramon!

--Tim


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## Ramon (Jun 18, 2012)

Well Tim, I was quite surprised to see this make an appearance again  - the last thing expected but thank you for your sentiment and kind comment - much appreciated. I hope it proves of use to you.

Regards - Ramon


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## seagar (Jun 18, 2012)

Hi Ramon, I too somehow had not seen the table engine but now that I have, what can I say but "WOW". :bow:
I am now following the Super Tigre build and look for an udate every time I come to the site.Once again thank you for sharing
your skill and knowedge with us .

Best wishes ,
Ian (seagar)


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## IanR (Jun 18, 2012)

Yes, ditto and thank you.


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