# Economy hit & miss engine is now complete.



## CMS (Mar 4, 2012)

Think it's now time to move to this neck of the woods. My engine is officially completed. The finishing touch was an ignition system from S/S Machine and Engineering. It was a tight fit getting the electronics and the batteries in the little space that was left after installing the gas tank. Alot of alterations to the original setup, like making a different on-off switch setup and I had to mount the batteries in an unfavorable manner, but it is was it is.
 I used the point setup that was already in place, the next engine I try the hall sensor and magnet. Also decided to try out one of those Rimfire plugs. Got about 4 hours of run time one the new electrical system and it's worked great. Except for my old Weller soldering gun. Was in the process of soldering the batteries together and it give it up, was one of those 100/140w units. Replaced it with one from Radio Shack, a 150/230w unit, and it doesn't play around!!! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nohrB7qiTys&feature=youtu.be


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## chuck foster (Mar 4, 2012)

now that is one sweet looking and running engine :bow: :bow:

i assume the castings came from joe in California ?

the cart ads allot to the over all look of the engine.

thanks for the video.

chuck the guy with hit and miss envy


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## Catminer (Mar 4, 2012)

Very nice, the finish and cart certainly come together 
to make it look like the real deal. Great job.

 Peter


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## arnoldb (Mar 5, 2012)

Very nice runner CMS Thm:

Kind regards, Arnold


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## vcutajar (Mar 5, 2012)

Congrats CMS. A good runner. I'm starting to enjoy the hit-and-miss sound.

Vince


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## Harold Lee (Mar 5, 2012)

What a sweet runner. You did a beautiful job!!

I used an electronic system on my Topsy Turvy using conventional points and had a great deal of trouble with point bounce causing the plug to fire on the compression stroke. I spent some time on the phone with Ray Scholl and finally went back to the conventional coil. I am in the process of converting it to the hall effect sensor.

What process did you use to provide the rust and pantina to your engine?

Thanks again for sharing your great work.

Harold


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## ShopShoe (Mar 5, 2012)

That's a Model! The finish is great and I agree that the cart makes it look like this engine was earning its keep yesterday. I would also like to know how you got the finish.

Now, what "work" could it do so that it fires more often? What is your next project?

--ShopShoe


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## Jasonb (Mar 5, 2012)

Very nice engine, I'd also like to know how you got that finish - so much better than an over polished Bling look.

Jason


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## CMS (Mar 5, 2012)

Thanks for the positive responces, also thanks to whom ever straightened out my wimpy you-tube link to the nice one that's in place now.

 Harold; Ray made comment about your issues, but I didn't experience any of those problems. I already had a set of points installed, so I figured I'd try that route first. It fired up and ran and no timing adjustments had to be made. I'm about 1/4 into another Economy engine and I think I may try the hall effect sensor on this one.
 The rusty finish is from a product called Rust-n-Dust and is sold by Micro Mark. It's very easy to apply, easy to apply touch-ups, and the more uneven it's applied the better the effects. I went with this finish because it gave it the "barn fresh" look, and for those of us that also like the full sized engines, well you know what I mean. Also, every model engine I've ever seen is ether painted or polished, I'm not worth a hill of crap when it comes to a NICE paint job or polishing so this stuff has worked out great for me. 

 Shopshoe; To work this engine I have a waterpump casting that's sold by the same person that has the engine castings, Joe Tochtrop. I'll start work on it soon, I'm working on another Economy engine and I'll finish that project first. 

 Jason; NO BLING HERE!!! Just oil, smoke, and fake rust.

Craig


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## Harold Lee (Mar 5, 2012)

Craig,

Interesting but I was just looking at the Micro Mark catalog and thinking I might try some of that stuff....

Regarding the ignition issue, The Topsy Turvy runs the points off the camshaft and therefore has two potential issues. Since it turns more slowly, I might be more prone to point bounce and if there is any backlash in the gear train it could also create point bounce. Do your points run off the crankshaft? 

Thanks again for sharing your work.

Harold


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## CMS (Mar 6, 2012)

Harold, the points do run off the crank. I watched the video of your engine, and the speed differance isn't that great between the to. I'm running about 475+/- at the crank and you're about 430+/- at the cam. Maybe the profile of your point cam or maybe too strong of a spring on the points. The points I'm using are from a Chrysler and I eased off the spring tension before I installed them. 
 Here's some pictures of my set up, hope you work your ignition issue out. If you do go for the hall sensor install, good luck and post an update.

Craig


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## jonesie (Mar 6, 2012)

craig nice looking build and a nice runner.that is what i needed to get at and get my farm boy running. thanks agian and a nice job. jonesie


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## Harold Lee (Mar 6, 2012)

Craig,

Thanks for the info... My engine uses the chrysler points as well. It was a very infrequent problem and perhaps the difference might be the gear backlash. I did not reduce the spring tension which might mitigate the gear backlash... Perhaps I'll play with it a bit. I really like the ignition module from Ray and hope I can get it worked out. 

Harold


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## AussieJimG (Mar 7, 2012)

Nice job Craig, and it runs and sounds just like the big ones. Congratulations.

Jim


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## BSA-Chipmaker (Mar 8, 2012)

Craig;
My Dad has been restoring and running hit & miss engines for a couple of decades and I have helped him get a few running. If I hadn't known it was a model I would have thought it was a real one!!!!! An excellent example. Even the sound of one running was the same! Great job! Gary


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## ShedBoy (Mar 8, 2012)

That is a superb looking engine, Looks just like it come out of a barn. I too love the colour, I believe it is called working clothes. 

Brock


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## rsholl (Mar 9, 2012)

Hello CMS,
Excellent job on the Economy, sounded great. I'd like to thank CMS for the info he shared with me on the phone yesterday. I agree there might be some benefit to lesser spring tension on the points. I had the oportunity to take a close look at the engine Harold Lee is having issues with on the point bounce. I am thinking with just the flat on the shaft and no lead in radius we may be magnifying the bounce problem. I ran a small engine shop back in the 80's and remember Briggs & Stratton ran their points from a flat on the crank shaft. They also had nice radius on both the lead in and lead out edges. I don't think a radius is necessary on the trailing edge but it cold make a huge difference on the leading edge. I would like to point out that the CDI does not have or need a dwell angle. The points or hall sensor trigger a logic circuit and all the CDI cares is that the white wire (signal) is pulled low (points close/hall sees magnet) and then released (points open/magnet has passed hall sensor). I have spent a lot of time pondering Harold Lee's issue with points bounce as I originaly thought commercial points wouldn't be prone to bouncing. I was obviously mistaken in my assumption. I would also like to point out when using points, they see no current so they could be made from much less exotic material. With the CDI not needing dwell and the points not seeing any current flow it would be possible to set up the points to be normaly closed and open only when they need to fire the engine. I know, this is backwards to the old system but would work just fine for the CDI.

Thanks,
Roy Sholl
S/S Machine & Engineering


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