# Cutting 316 Stainless Steel



## andyh747 (Mar 10, 2018)

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice in purchasing a chop saw for cutting stainless steel. I've looked at a few metal cold chop saws but haven't found anything which will cut 316 stainless steel. The Evolution Evosaw 355 looks a decent well priced metal chop saw but their stainless steel cutting blade only cuts lower grade stainless steel and won't cut 316 according to the manufacturers. 

Anyone any advice on suitable cutting discs?  I'd like to avoid abrasive cutters if possible due to the sparks and dust.


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## 10K Pete (Mar 10, 2018)

I've been working sstl for 50 years and never heard of any saw, band or  circular, that wouldn't cut 316 right now. Same for abrasives. There are grinding wheels optimized for sstl but the others cut well also.

I'd take another run at those suppliers.....

Pete


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## bazmak (Mar 10, 2018)

If you are cutting small or thin wall sections then abrasive is the way to go
Chop saws or cold cut saws work ok for bigger sections.Bandsaws are good but
soon lose their edge so it becomes expensive.Depends how much Ss yu have to cut.Do not think there would be much difference between 304 and 316 etc
only the price


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## DJP (Mar 10, 2018)

My experience with cutting 316 is that it will harden if too much heat is generated. Slow and steady cutting under constant pressure works best for cutting a drilling. A bi-metal band saw running at slow speed has cut  a lot of 316 for me.


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## jayville (Mar 10, 2018)

Abrasive wheels will cut stainless ok,don't press too hard as they tend to glaze up on s.s,either type will cut but the Ones marked suitable for s.s won't leave rust marks on other equipment nearby if they happen to be sprayed with grit off the wheels especially if the other equipment is also s.s and it gets washed or hosed down on regular basis.i have worked in s.s fabrication industry for 52 years and this is the type that we use and only for that reason ,wheels marked m.s or s.s will both do the job that you require no difference in cutting.....clem


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## jayville (Mar 10, 2018)

Andy...just another note,I have worked in s.s industry for many years,mostly tube and pipe and also do a lot of fabrication at home ,I had 2 drop/ chops saws ,I got rid of them years ago,noisy ,dirty and don't cut that accurate got my self a small hand operated bandsaw with trigger on the handle and variable speed ,have never looked back I can cut 75 mm dia 316 quite easily,also m.s,brass bronze,,aluminiumand anything else even pvc pipe,the secret with s.s is slow and easy and a squirt bottle of cutting oil you can't cut many materials other than m.s or s.s with a chop saw and they arn,t much quicker than the bandsaw have a good think about what else you may want to cut in the future.cheers clem


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## Picko (Mar 11, 2018)

Hey Jay
Have you got a photo or a link to of your saw. Sorry Andy.

John


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## jayville (Mar 11, 2018)

Picko...look up hafco  BS-5V I've had one of these for about 4 years done thousands of cuts,blade it came with was ok but I use bimetallic blades,sorry for interrupting your thread Andy..cheers clem


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## andyh747 (Mar 11, 2018)

Thanks all for the replies and information, very much appreciated. 

I won't be doing a huge amount of cutting of SS but want accurate cuts when I do. I've been mostly cutting 2mm wall box section around 25x25mm.  Not big I know and I've previously used an angle grinder with metal cutoff wheel. Works ok but not the most accurate. I was hoping to use a chop saw like the Evolution or the Makita for accuracy and ease of use combined with the fact I could use it for other metals etc. I already have a mitre saw which I use for wood but wanted to see if anyone had recommendations for a good metal chop saw. 

I've just finished building a new workshop and will be adding to my list of machines over time. All DIY and hobby work. A band saw also sounds appealing but wasn't sure whether these would eat through blades quicker and wasn't sure what else I'd use a band saw for. 

Here's a link to the Evolution:
http://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/steel/evosaw355.php

And the Makita:
http://www.makitauk.com/products/saws/cut-off-saws/chop-saws/lc1230-305mm-cut-off-saw.html

I'll have a look at the mentioned band saw but if anyone has anymore input keep it coming. 

Thanks again.


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## Blogwitch (Mar 11, 2018)

I have the same one as Jayville but under a different name.

They are a little pricey compared to the normal workshop bandsaws on stand and wheels, but it really does cut everything and very compact as well.
It came with two blades and I am still on the first after cutting everything I had to throw at it.

When eventually I will need new blades, I always buy them from Tuffsaws. Their bi-metal ones are fabulous.

http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/

John


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## andyh747 (Mar 11, 2018)

Thanks for that. I've looked for Hafco bandsaws but they don't seem to be available in the UK. Any links to where you can get one either new or used?

I found this one which looks similar. Any other suggestions greatly appreciated. 

http://www.kendaltools.co.uk/shop/products/sip-07288-6150mm-swivel-metal-cutting-bandsaw-1phase-.htm

Andy


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## Wizard69 (Mar 13, 2018)

andyh747 said:


> Thanks all for the replies and information, very much appreciated.


Thanks for starting an interesting thread.   

The primary issue with Stainless 316 is work hardening which can have a spectacular impact on cutting tools.  To avoid this one needs to keep the SFPM low and the feed rate somewhat aggressive.   Many cold saws simply run too fast and will eventually rub, once the tool rub you have an almost instant hardened surface.   


> I won't be doing a huge amount of cutting of SS but want accurate cuts when I do. I've been mostly cutting 2mm wall box section around 25x25mm.


That is a tough wall thickness to deal with as it is close to too thin for saw blades.  On the other hand abrasive techniques can put a lot if heat into cuts this thick.    

I have one of the basic metal bandsaws and have cut 2mm walled tubing but you have to be careful if the teeth pitch on the blade isn't fine enough.  The blade can easily catch, stalling or breaking off teeth and this is in mild steel.  If you expect to do a lot of tubing this thin on a band saw, id first verify that you can get very fine pitched saw blades for the saw.  

A common technique on band saws to cut thin sectioned forms is to orient the walls at 45 degrees to the blade.   This is easy with angle iron.  With box sections you would need to rig something up.  


> Not big I know and I've previously used an angle grinder with metal cutoff wheel. Works ok but not the most accurate. I was hoping to use a chop saw like the Evolution or the Makita for accuracy and ease of use combined with the fact I could use it for other metals etc.


This brings up an interesting question which is more useful in the home shop, a bandsaw or a chop saw???    Personally id lean towards a band saw especially if you want to cut solids in a variety of steels.  


> I already have a mitre saw which I use for wood but wanted to see if anyone had recommendations for a good metal chop saw.


A wood oriented miter saw can do wonders in Aluminum with the proper blade.   I have a metal cutting blade on mine right now.   I wouldn't even consider using it on steel much less thin cross section stainless steel.  


> I've just finished building a new workshop and will be adding to my list of machines over time. All DIY and hobby work. A band saw also sounds appealing but wasn't sure whether these would eat through blades quicker and wasn't sure what else I'd use a band saw for.


Id go with a bandsaw if your intention is to do anything more than modest metal work.   Consider this cutting 3/8" or 1/2" bar is pretty easy with a hacksaw when doing a one off.  Do ten and a bandsaw becomes amazingly delightful.   Frankly it can be the difference between putting off a project and moving forward.  


> Here's a link to the Evolution:
> http://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/steel/evosaw355.php
> 
> And the Makita:
> ...


If you are looking at bandsaws id suggest getting the bigger models over the 4x6 cut off machines.   I have a Grizzly 4 x 6 and like all similar models it is bottom of the barrel.  In my case i seem to be lucky in that it cuts very square leaving a surprisingly good finish.  I do have Starrett blades installed.  

The reason i suggest bigger is that the general quality goes up with price.  The vise on the 4 x 6 leaves a lot to be desired for example.   The leg assembly (stand) is a complete joke.   However the unit is dirt cheap and the problems addressable.  


> Thanks again.




As you can see I'm biased towards a bandsaw.  Im not sure where the fears about blade life come from.  Think about it this way, how many teeth are there on a circular saw blade vs a bandsaw blade.   If you go abrasive cut off those blades don't last long at all and perform poorly on thicker materials.  

In your case you have a specific need that does require careful consideration due to the thin walls of the tubing you are using.  As such id suggest a finer pitch blade than normal and fixturing the parts in the vise at 45 degrees.   Your goal is to keep two teeth (ideally three) engaged in the ways at all times.


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## petertha (Mar 13, 2018)

A big plus for most of the Asian hobby metal cutting bandsaws is they can lop off stock in drop mode using the vise. But most are designed to also stand up. Now you screw on a table & cut out plate materials in a 2D sense which is very useful. Chop saws don't lend themselves to that. In fact if I have the table mounted, I'll just leave it on & push through up to 3/4" stock. A table means you can install a fence & now you have controlled 'slitting' ability. For many applications this might be sufficient vs. breaking out the slitting saw & going at it on the mill.


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## andyh747 (Mar 14, 2018)

Many thanks for all the information.

It looks like a band saw is the way to go.  The Grizzly looks like a US machine so I'd need to source something similar here.  Axminster tools do a few machines which may be suitable.  I've emailed to get some advice.

Thanks again for the guidance, really helps in making a decision:thumbup:


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## deverett (Mar 14, 2018)

The US Hafco is very similar to the UK available Femi.  

Although a bit more expensive than the usual Asian bandsaws, they get very good reviews.  They certainly are very light and are a lot more compact as well as being accurate cutters.  Look at the review showing a cut of 1/2mm on steel bar.

I've managed to make room in my workshop for a bandsaw now, and I've just ordered a Femi from https://www.stakesys.co.uk/metal-cutting-bandsaws 
This place was the cheapest that I found delivered, so please don't tell me you've found a cheaper place elsewhere and make me jealous!

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## andyh747 (Mar 14, 2018)

Thanks Dave, that's very helpful.

Out of interest which model did you order?  I'd be interested to hear your views when you get it up and running.


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## deverett (Mar 14, 2018)

I ordered the ABS105.  I chose that one because the blade descends automatically as it cuts.  Others you have to hold the handle and pull down - at least that is what I understand!

There is a larger version with a slightly larger footprint, but I don't envisage needing to cut anything larger than 105mm diameter.

My workshop is a single garage and it was stuffed full of equipment so much so that I had to step around things to get to my machines.  I've recently sold off a couple of machines to give me the floor space to get the bandsaw (with stand).  As I get older, I'm less interested in hacksawing through large lumps of metal and this is a treat to myself.  It could have been stored in a corner and put up on the bench when needed, but kept on the stand it is always ready for immediate use.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## andyh747 (Mar 14, 2018)

Thanks Dave,

Looks an ideal size.  Looked at the demo videos and some on YouTube as well.  Hadn't heard of this make before but they appear well built.

Let me know how you get on with yours when you get it.


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## deverett (Mar 16, 2018)

Andy

The bandsaw has arrived and set up.  I thought I would give it an easy test with a lump of 3-1/4" steel.  I was quite impressed with the result.

Part way through the cut




Cut complete



The support block was so that the cut piece didn't fall down and damage the paint!

I got the sheet metal stand and it comes with the melamine chipboard, but no screws.  A phone call to Stakesys and they put the screws, nuts and washers in the post straight away.  The saw needs to be secured if you put it on the stand, maybe OK freestanding on the bench.  It would have been better if I had put the overhang of the board at the right hand side to catch the swarf.  

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## andyh747 (Mar 17, 2018)

Looks like a nice clean cut but I'd expect that on a new machine with new blade.  Did you have to adjust much to get an accurate square cut?  Anything you've noticed which you'd improve or anything not as you expected?

Many thanks for taking the time to post photos.


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## deverett (Mar 17, 2018)

Andy

I just bolted the machine to the stand, plonked the metal in the vice, pressed the button and off it went.   The blade is about 5/8" clear of the vice jaws so cutting short lengths might be a problem,  but that is likely to be the same with any saw.
There are 2 blade speeds and 4 downfeed speeds. I took it conservatively and used the slower speed and medium downfeed.  The manual is quite comprehensive but it took a  couple of reads with me looking at the machine to understand what the switches did.  There are 3 on/off switches!  The handle switch seems to be a manual override in case you don't want to use the auto downfeed.

As this is the first bandsaw I've used I don't know how to compare it to  any other type, but it looks like it can do what I want it to do.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## petertha (Mar 17, 2018)

5/8" offset to side of jaws is actually good. Many of the bigger brother saws are much wider gap like 2-3". Not sure why because it severely limits what you can hold on the stock side in the vise. Might be related to swinging the jaws at angle for mitre cuts. My saw is late 90's they are a bit different now. 

But there are solutions. Welcome to the 'pimp your saw' show LOL. Depending on swing clearance you can make a simple base plate with a small vise attached & now the band saw vise essentially grips the mini vise, which is holding the stock. Or I have seem people tap holes in the stock vise jaws so they bolt in flat bar 'extenders' & that gets it closer to the blade. I use my band saw a lot. If there is no other reason to lop off material in the lathe, I don't bother with a parting tool. get it in the saw & its done with less fuss. Sometimes you just cant, but whenever I can I do.

I take it that model does not have provisions for a table in upright position?


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## deverett (Mar 17, 2018)

petertha said:


> I take it that model does not have provisions for a table in upright position?



Not as standard, but there is an accessory table available for the saw to be used in a vertical position.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## bazmak (Mar 18, 2018)

Well worth the extra,but easy to make.Dont know which would be more used
Horizontal to save hardwork with a hacksaw or vertical to cut small sized shapes
in plates


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## andyh747 (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks for the info.  I'm still considering - never was good at deciding what to buy!  However the info here has been very helpful.

One other general question Dave, what's the build quality like of the machine?  Does it appear well made and sturdy?


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## deverett (Mar 18, 2018)

andyh747 said:


> Thanks for the info.  I'm still considering - never was good at deciding what to buy!  However the info here has been very helpful.
> 
> One other general question Dave, what's the build quality like of the machine?  Does it appear well made and sturdy?



I can't compare it to the usual Asian machines, not having seen any but the Femi seems to be quite well made.  If you intend to move it from a dark corner to your workbench for use, you will find it is compact and lightweight (due to most parts apart from the base - pressed steel - being ally.) so easy to move around.

Over on the Model Engineer site there was a discussion a few months ago about bandsaws and the respondents who had previously bought Femi machines all spoke highly of them, which is why I decided on getting one.  Living in Ireland I can't just go down to the local tool merchant for a looky touchy, so have to go by other users' recommendations, rather than relying on advertising hype.  Just wish I'd had previous feedback about my milling machine before wasting my money.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## andyh747 (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks Dave,

Yes it's not easy making decisions these days with so much information on the internet and many conflicting reviews of products. 

Glad you're pleased with yours though and your comments about the ease of moving around are noted as this would be an advantage for me given that I may want to cut outside or orientate the machine in different positions. 

Andy


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## petertha (Mar 18, 2018)

bazmak said:


> Well worth the extra,but easy to make.


 
Well that particular saw looks to be in a slightly different category than the typical (usually bit larger) metal cutting bandsaws. But they seem to have a similar, somewhat irritating feature in common. There is virtually no base of substance to mount the table to. The bracket you see is usually integrated with the bearings, so if you wanted to increase the area, you probably need to re-make that. Mine is about 1"x2" which is piddly to support a 12x12 table. It has 2 threaded holes for the table mounting flathead screws. Underneath that is the blade wiper brush on a different bracket. I suspect they might have to make this mounting block small-ish so that it can clear the vise & other obstacles in drop-down mode, so maybe a compromise.

Banging out a square for a table top is the simple part. How to mount it, not sure 'easy' would be my word LOL. I would also like to put a fence mechanism on mine but there is variation between the 2 close spaced holes so the table might be off a few degrees each installation so I'd end up tweaking it parallel to the blade anyway.


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## bazmak (Mar 19, 2018)

where there is a will there is a way


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## Wizard69 (Mar 19, 2018)

I had to respond to the comments about reviews and the difficulty one has buying decent tools these days.   I have a decent number of metal and wood working tools that i have bought over the years.   Three of the metal working tools came from Grizzly in the USA and the quality varied significantly for each.  For example the 4x6 metal cutting bandsaw has been great - very pleased with it.  I have their 1" belt sander with disc and it isn't bad for the most part but the motor is a joke.  You can easily kick in the start winding with a light load on the 1" belt.  The sander has no real horse power.   Sadly the worse of the bunch was the drill press and frankly i don't think Grizzly has a decent model to sell.  

The point im trying to make here is that if you try to rely upon internet opinions you have to deal with the fact that quality varies widely as do expectations.   If i was to have asked most likely i would have heard that the 4x6 bandsaw is a piece of junk.   On the other hand the comments about optimistic horse power ratings for Chinese machines have been proven true for the belt sander.     

Sadly brand names mean nothing anymore.  A good portion of the hand power tool selection is now made in China by one company and as a result quality has gone down hill.


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## petertha (Mar 19, 2018)

These pictures kind of illustrate what I was mentioning. This particular bearing block has screw hole provisions for a table to be mounted to.
http://www.toolsandmods.com/bandsaw/bandsaw-blade-guides

It 'works' but the block area is quite small relative to the larger table. That means its not the best design for ensuring the table is perpendicular to the blade or square in plan view. If your saw has provisions like this, at least you are part way there. I'm probably going to make a larger sub-plate to give it more stability, but that potentially interferes with clearance in drop down mode.

There are lots of 'fixit' links in InternetLand about modifying/improving these saws & things to be aware of. My saw is a ~7x10, gearbox drive of Taiwan origin. A bit better quality but still has its quirks. They come in a multitude of colors & gradations of quality.


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## andyh747 (Mar 20, 2018)

Absolutely spot on with regards to product buying.

From researching a lot of information regarding various machines you can tell many machines with different branding are the same machine.  This reinforces the point that most are now made by one company, more often than not in China.

How British companies manage to survive is a mystery.


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## deverett (Mar 20, 2018)

Wizard69 said:


> I had to respond to the comments about reviews and the difficulty one has buying decent tools these days.   I have a decent number of metal and wood working tools that i have bought over the years.   Three of the metal working tools came from Grizzly in the USA and the quality varied significantly for each.  For example the 4x6 metal cutting bandsaw has been great - very pleased with it.  I have their 1" belt sander with disc and it isn't bad for the most part but the motor is a joke.  You can easily kick in the start winding with a light load on the 1" belt.  The sander has no real horse power.   Sadly the worse of the bunch was the drill press and frankly i don't think Grizzly has a decent model to sell.
> 
> The point im trying to make here is that if you try to rely upon internet opinions you have to deal with the fact that quality varies widely as do expectations.   If i was to have asked most likely i would have heard that the 4x6 bandsaw is a piece of junk.   On the other hand the comments about optimistic horse power ratings for Chinese machines have been proven true for the belt sander.
> 
> Sadly brand names mean nothing anymore.  A good portion of the hand power tool selection is now made in China by one company and as a result quality has gone down hill.



When I bought my bandsaw, I relied on fellow hobby users' experiences rather than an anonymous internet review.  If the machine was good enough for other hobby users, (at least one of whom is a seriously good model engineer) it is good enough for me.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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