# Rob Roy



## doubletop (May 26, 2010)

Rather than hijack Stews thread on his 3.5" boiler build

The real reason I'm on this forum is so I can get my skills to a level that I am confident to finish this off without stuffing it up. My dad started this about 1980 and its all a bit dusty as no real work has been done on this engine in about 20 years. I had intended to leave it as it was but now, and as a result of this forum, maybe not.

The damage on the cylinder covers was a a result of not having a jig like Stews and was done in the UK before it came to me. This engine (and the rest of my workshop) traveled unaccompanied to NZ, courtesy of Crown Movers, without any other damage or anything going missing.








It needs a complete strip down and finishing.











As you can see why I am extremely interested in Stews thread.

I'm in no rush to do this and it could be another 20years before I do finish it.

Pete


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## SBWHART (May 26, 2010)

Nice looking engine Pete Looks almost complete, have you had it running on air ?. It looks like a 5" Ajax, do you know what it is?.

Just seen the title of the thread its a Rob Roy

Cheers

Stew


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## doubletop (May 27, 2010)

I've not tried but when he was building it my dad used to try it out on a CO2 cylinder he'd borrow from the pub.

Its been sat in the living room since it arrived in NZ about 8 years ago.

Pete


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## doubletop (Jul 31, 2010)

Now I've just finished my last project what next? With all you guys help I've done my apprenticeship over the past months so today I thought I'd make a start on getting this finished. 

It's been underway for well over 20 years and has been sat in my living room since it arrived in NZ about 8 years ago. Its a bit grubby covered in dust but no rust at all. NZ has pretty high humidity so when it arrived I gave it a good spray of WD40, which seems to have done the trick. 

First thing is strip it down and see what is needed.




















It turns out remarkably little needs doing but its a good thing I did, a number of bolts and fittings were only finger tight. Probably as a result of a quick assembly before its trip to NZ. Apart from that:
The tank filler caps need finishing but most of the parts are done. One hinge to turn down and the assemblies soft soldered in place.
A number of screws need replacing with equivalent small hex head BA bolts. Obviously my dad had run out at some point and just used ordinary screws. I'll get some on order over the weekend.
Then paint it. It needs a good clean and the boiler, cab, tanks and running boards doing. But as its mild steel I also want to do the frames which will mean a further deep strip removing as much as I can to get the wheels, axle boxes and valve gear out of the way.
 

OK, not a full build, but hopefully interesting. I'll let you know how I go

Pete

No plans to rush it


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## don-tucker (Jul 31, 2010)

What a lovely engine Pete,and a nice intro to model engineering,I am sure with some patience and help from this forum you can finish it ,Will you be painting it?
Don


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## ozzie46 (Jul 31, 2010)

Very interesting indeed! I be watching with great interest as I'm trying to build a "Simplex". It too is along term project.

 See my thread here:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8358.0


  Ron


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## doubletop (Aug 1, 2010)

Ron

Hopefully I can get it sorted. There's not a lot of parts left to make. But I do know where to come if I get stuck. Setting up the valve timing comes to mind but I'll ask that question when I get back to that point

Don

The plan is to get it painted and running hence the strip down

Today's efforts



























Hopefully I can remember how to put it back together again 

Pete


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## SAM in LA (Aug 1, 2010)

Pete,

There sure are a lot of pieces.

I hope you took lots of pictures so you can get it back together.

I need many more years of practice before I try to make something as complex as you locomotive.

I'll be watching your progress.

SAM


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm real happy you've decided to finish this. I'm sure it has a lot of meaning...and besides...that's some beautiful work. The detail is amazing.

Watching with great interest...


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## doubletop (Aug 2, 2010)

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> Pete,
> 
> There sure are a lot of pieces.
> 
> ...



Sam

Yes there are a lot of pieces but I have a good idea of how it goes back together and have taken some pictures. I've also made some notes as well as having the Martin Evans book.The biggest problem will be getting ahead of myself and assembling bits that get in the way of others, so have to take it apart again. 

Believe me I need more years of practice before I try something like this. I'm just finishing off my dads efforts.

Carl

Yes it does mean a lot; my dad got to the point he couldn't finish it. The good thing is he's alive and well and watching this along with everybody else. I got a phone call from him from the UK last night with some 'advice'.

Hopefully, I'll get it back together by the end of the year, ready for the NZ summer. I'm taking the boiler to the club tomorrow night to talk to the boiler inspector. It was professionally made and I have a certificate from 1993 but its not worth the paper its written on now.

Enjoy the ride

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Aug 2, 2010)

Pete,

A very nice loco indeed, and a real credit to your dad.

You will need to get made a full set of boiler blanks, so it can be pressure tested again, and ask the boiler inspector what type of fitting he will require so that he can connect to it with his equipment. 

So all those nice fittings will eventually have to come off as well. But not yet, see what the boiler inspector thinks first with them all on. You just might be lucky.


John


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## doubletop (Aug 3, 2010)

John

Thanks; he certainly was meticulous with it. There are a few stories of parts not being up to scratch and being remade.

On the inspection; my thoughts as well. Take it to him 'as is' and see what he says. I do intend to remove the fittings to clean up and re-paint anyway. Making a set of blanks is quite a quick job and I have some from my other boiler testing and I have the necessary 1/4 x 40 and 1/4 x 32 dies. Hopefully he doesn't want the cladding off for a visual, as well as the straps its solder tacked along the join

We'll find out tomorrow

Pete


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## doubletop (Aug 7, 2010)

Seen the boiler inspector and he's ready to do the test. I don't need to remove the cladding and rather than rock up and find it leaking like a sieve I thought I'd make the blanks and test it myself with all the fittings in place using my 'bike pump' method, 


Filled with water using the whistle valve to let out any air.
Fitted pump and filled that with water.
Did one stroke with the whistle valve open to get rid of any air.
Pumped to 100psi.

I did have some leaks on the blanks and the steam dome gasket but they were easily rectified 

All good to go

Pete


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## SBWHART (Aug 8, 2010)

Good luck with boiler inspector Pete

Stew


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## doubletop (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks Stew

I'm not expecting any issues. He did a visual last week and seemed OK with what he saw. It's a commercially made boiler, with a serial number, I have the original certificate and it is clear its never been fired, so I'm pretty confident.

Pete


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## doubletop (Aug 14, 2010)

I'd started painting the frames using heat proof paint but wasn't really happy with the result and didn't think it was going to be that durable.







However at the club the other week we had a discussion about painting locomotives, especially mine with its brass superstructure and one of the guys suggested that it should be sand blasted to give the paint a good key. So digging around on our local version of ebay I found this. 







It was new this morning but its been hard at work getting the paint off so I can start the painting job again. I've masked up everything to keep running surfaces free of grit ingress. 












I then started on the brass work. Two running boards one with 15 or so years of tarnish and the other blasted. I'm very happy with the results. With an etch primer hopefully the paint should stay put for a while.







Cab in its original state and the roof after a blast.







NZ$300 (£135) well spent I think.

Pete


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## doubletop (Aug 21, 2010)

That sand blaster is great, the paint now sticks to the metal! I'm much happier with the results this time

Progress since my last post and I'm now in re-assembly mode. The plan is to finish the frames and get the mechanicals back together. Then I'll do the cab etc. I still need to arrange a time with the boiler inspector for the test.

















Pete


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Looks great Pete.
I'm looking forward to seenig more.


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## don-tucker (Aug 21, 2010)

You are doing a splendid job,it will look the business when finished
Don


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## doubletop (Aug 22, 2010)

Carl/Don

Thanks for your support on this (re) build. Hopefully I can do it justice and not stuff it up, which had been my concern up to now so hadn't considered finishing it.

I got the running gear all back together today. Things are a bit tight so I'll need to do some work on freeing it up. I also need to get a 3/8 x 26 tap so I can make an adaptor for the steam pipe and get it running on air.

















I do need to do something about the valve chests. I thought I'd leave them au natural but they just look unfinished the way they are now.

Pete


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## kendo (Aug 22, 2010)

Hi Pete
      You are doing one amazing job there, Really looking forward to the rest
      of the rebuild.
      I noticed you said, you wanted to make an adaptor so you can run it on
      air. Is that just a temporary measure to get it running and then change
      over so it will run on steam, just interested 

                        Ken


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## doubletop (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks Ken

Yes I'm just going to get it running on air, its easier for setting it up, rather than build the whole thing and have to strip it down again for something silly.

Somehow I need to confirm the valve timing. I know it runs because I've remember seeing it years ago on a CO2 cylinder from the pub. However I do need to check it. The approach in the Martin Evans book doesn't suit as it requires that the valve chest covers come off and I don't want to do that.

As I said its a bit tight right now, a lot tighter thank it was before I stripped it down.

Pete


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## kendo (Aug 22, 2010)

Yep Pete, that makes really good sense to me, and I'm sure that when you
   do get everything running free, that engine is gonna run pretty sweet.

   I will be watching your progress,and wish you every success with this build,
   can't wait to see it running.

   Think I'm gonna add this one to my favourites, Best of luck to you Pete.


                       Ken


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## ozzie46 (Aug 22, 2010)

Very Nice.

  Ron


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## doubletop (Aug 23, 2010)

Ken/Ron

Thanks for the good wishes. Not much will be happening with this during the week. I've got a lot on at work and I'm trying to fit in a conference with the socialising that goes with that.

Pete


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## NickG (Aug 23, 2010)

Pete,

I've got a very similar project with a 3 1/2" gauge Mable 2-4-0 Tender loco - only my boiler is nowhere near as good as yours. So I should be able to learn a few tips from your posts.

I used to own a Rob -Roy at one point, didn't build it just bought it to run and it went quite well, would pull a couple of people ok.

Good work, thanks for sharing.

Nick


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## doubletop (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks Nick, I have minimal claim no fame for any of this and I'll admit the boiler was done by a professional boiler maker.

I couldn't wait until the weekend to make an air line adaptor. It occurred to me that I had a whole lot of different bits and bobs that came with my air tools and it wouldn't be the first time something fitted 'out of the box'..................

It did the thread on the air gun nozzle was 3/8" x26 so I was on my way








The first attempt was hopeless air escaping somewhere. I'd left the oiler clack off so the air wasn't getting far. One of my boiler test blanking plugs soon fixed that.

Next attempt wasn't much better, air pouring out of the exhaust pipe and not a hint of movement on the pistons. Ho hum to stiff or something wrong with the timing. Then I remembered my dad saying "make sure you seat the valves first" with no hint of how to do that. 

I sat down with the Martin Evans book and no clues in there either. From the drawings there seems to be a big gap between the valve chest cover and the valve slide so a good reason for it to leak.

Not wanting to give up now I hand cranked the wheels and reversing arm to work out the relationship between the wheel position, valves and reversing lever. I figured that putting the reversing lever in the 'right' place would allow the valves to seat.

So third attempt and I just waggled the reversing lever about and bang it burst into life.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwH2MOvkbBM[/ame]

It's a bit noisy probably a timing issue but as there's no reversing quadrant fitted so the reversing gear is wobbling about a bit and that's probably not helping.

Happy person; and no doubt when he sees this, happy dad ;D

Pete


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 23, 2010)

Very neat Pete. You have to be feeling pretty good.

What is it sitting on?
I just built a stand with rollers for my itty-bitty loco...now I'm wondering why. :big:


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## NickG (Aug 23, 2010)

Pete, glad to hear you got it running.

There should be a gap between the cyl cover and valve. Not sure whether you know how a slide valve engine works but attached is a picture, not great but illustrates how the valve works.

You are right, you want the reverser to stay still, it will have a dramatic effect on how the engine runs if it's moving about. It limits how far the valves travel, so limiting the opening of the ports. Once the engine is up to speed it can be 'notched back' to use less steam.

Nick


View attachment Slide Valve Workings.bmp


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## SBWHART (Aug 23, 2010)

Pete

Very nice, as you say looks like you have a timing issue, when I set the timing on mine I had great difficulty, getting my head around it, its all about the valves closing early to allow expansion of the steam, I ended up making a new slide valve that the engine runs nice and smooth on, but since found out that this new valve is optimal for air running, it will be next to useless for steam, so a new slide valve for steam is required, so what I'm saying is it may be rough on air but correct for steam, but never seen a correct steam valve running on air I can't say for definite.

Stew


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## Deanofid (Aug 23, 2010)

It's really shaping up nice with the cleaning and new paint, Pete. 
I can see why you didn't really want take off the valve covers with them both facing to the inside
like they are. Kind of tight quarters.
Nice video. It will be a beauty when you get it done!

Dean


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## steamer (Aug 23, 2010)

I'd venture a guess that the "jiggling" of the reverse gear "Johnson bar on this side of the pond anyway" seated the slide valve on its seat and way she went....

I would venture an opinion of "thats normal"...especially on and engine that has been "operated on" recently....everything has to line up again.

Good to see!

Dave


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## doubletop (Aug 24, 2010)

Zee

Its just up on blocks under the buffers. I've got the air line valve in one hand and the camera in the other. No way could I adjust the reversing lever, but no real risk of disaster as long as I let go of the air valve in time. Saying that it was way more powerful than I had expected.

Nick

Thanks for the diagram. The problem is was reconciling was the gap between the slide and cover on the "how does that work?" and then sort of realizing that the valve chest pressure must keep it in place. Which resulted in the waggle approach to make it comply with theory. 

I'll put in the quadrant or clamp the lever and see what happens.

Stew

I've learnt from my small engines there is a difference between air and steam. I'm going to do some experiments to see if I can get it going better under air. I assume if its balanced under air its part way there and then its anybody's guess how it will then go under steam.

Dean

I think I am getting there thanks.

The real problem with taking the covers off is how the inlet/exhaust ports are fitted and I couldn't work it out so left it alone. OK maybe I was a wuss and should have tried as it would have helped with the painting.

Dave

I think I've been to Johnsons Bar and there was a lot of jiggling going on but I can't remember which State it was (or I was).

Seriously; this is early days yet and it was nice to see it run again. I remember it being as smooth as a sewing machine so I have an idea of what to expect.

More to come.........................

Pete


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## doubletop (Aug 29, 2010)

Been a long slow weekend but progress is being made. I spent most of my time peering into the sand blaster cleaning the brass bodywork. Also sprayed some of the parts with etch primer. 
















The primer seems to work well. I'd done the steam dome previously and had sprayed it with black gloss. However, I wasn't happy with the results so decided to blast it off and start again. The primer certainly was stuck on well.

I ran out of the 3M etch primer and so had the local Super Cheap Auto store

Pete


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## NickG (Aug 29, 2010)

Looking great Pete, looks like a really professional job :bow:, I wish I could get that finish on mine when I do it. Will try and learn some tips from your posts when I do, that's for sure.

Nick


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## don-tucker (Aug 29, 2010)

I second that Nick,I shall soon be thinking about painting my Traction engine so looking for all the tips I can get.
Don


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## doubletop (Aug 30, 2010)

Many thanks

Nick

I wouldn't say professional but I hope I'm doing it right. I've never been much of a painter and must admit I'm getting withdrawal symptoms not having used the lathe or mill for a while. I did get some machine time over the weekend when I made a blanking cap for the tank filler.

Don

As I say I'm no expert but I do believe the sand blasting, with a fine glass grit, is the way to go. I'm following the advice of the guys at the club. It's clear that emery paper would never have provided the surface the blaster gives for the paint to key to.

Pete


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## doubletop (Sep 11, 2010)

I didn&#8217;t do an update last week but I did make progress. I spent most of last weekend with my hands encased in the rubber gloves of the sand blaster finishing off the last parts and getting a coat of etch primer on them. I&#8217;ve been told the brass parts re-oxidizes very quickly so I get them blasted , wash off the grit residue and get it well dried and primed with 3M etch primer.







The other good news; on Sunday I took the boiler to the club for the inspector to do the pressure test. That went well and I&#8217;m on the first step of approval for running on the club track

This week I decided that the only way I was going to get the timing sorted was to strip down the valve chests reset the slides and re assemble. Three attempts later I got it right. First too much RTV gasket which encroached on the valve chest so the valves wouldn&#8217;t seat, second I got the left/right covers switched over and the steam inlet was in the wrong place. Third was successful so I can now move on. Each of the strip, setup, re-builds took three hours or so, making it a long week. At least now the packing nuts now have viton O rings in them and are well sealed.

Valve chest rebuild #3







The 4BA screws in the cylinders only serve to plug the drain cock holes for testing

Next was pin the lifting arms for the valve gear. These had never been drilled or pinned but the whole chassis fits on the mill table so I was able to set it up, lock the arms, drill the holes and taper ream for the lock pins.











This allowed another test run on air.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBodAZdHhRc[/ame]

Much better now smoother, less vibration and running on only 25psi.

Another good day until I broke the tap making the fixing bracket for the gas burner. More about that in a later post; it&#8217;s Saturday and now time for a glass of wine.

Pete


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## ozzie46 (Sep 11, 2010)

I just love all that motion working. Looks real good.

 Ron


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## Blogwitch (Sep 11, 2010)

Very nice indeed Pete.

I bet your dad is proud of you making such a good job of it.

It's going to look stunning when finished.


John


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## doubletop (Sep 11, 2010)

Thanks Ron 

Getting the motion to run smoothly was the challenge I had deal with. There was no point in going any further until I go all that right. Putting it all together and having to strip it down again isn't something I want to consider. No doubt it will happen though.

John

Thanks for your support once again.

One of the reasons I tried it slow and at low pressure was last weeks conversation with dad, after he'd seen the first running video _".........that's great but I want to see it notched back and running slowly then I know you've got it right"_

I'm quite pleased the way the plate work has come out. The sand blaster was worth the purchase and the 3M etch primer sticks like the proverbial s*1t to a blanket so very I'm happy with the results. I'm not sure if its as good as the airframe etch primer we both remember but it's good. A rub down with 1000 wet & dry and it's smooth as anything a baby may have.

Although I've got a compressor and spray guns any attempts I've made using them have been less than satisfactory. I've had better results with a spray can, and we know how unpredictable they can be, so rather than risk it I'm planning to get it professionally sprayed. That's the reason for getting all the parts to the same state so I can take them to spray shop and get the job costed.

Tomorrow will be filler and wet/dry day, maybe another look at resolving the broken tap.

regards

Pete


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 11, 2010)

The pics are great and the video is awesome. That is really nice work.
Keep up with the tips/techniques on blasting and painting...I'm learning.

It was that kind of model that influenced me when I was younger and eventually landed me in this hobby.

........................

Wine you say? Do you drink that Nobilo? Wife loves it so there's always one at the ready in the fridge.

BTW...remember that point about 'going slow' ;D


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## NickG (Sep 11, 2010)

Great stuff Pete - looks like it's got some poke!

Our club are hosting the Stephenson Memorial Miniature Locomotive Trials tomorrow which should be good! Competitors are given 20 minutes to do as far as they can with as much load on as little coal as possible.

Some of them are unbelievable, last time we did it a 3.5" Evening Star came 4th hauling 1307lbs 2839 yards on 15oz of coal!

Bet you can't wait to get it running on live steam!

Nick


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## SAM in LA (Sep 11, 2010)

Pete,

What a great build.

I'm looking forward to seeing your finished locomotive.

SAM


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## doubletop (Sep 11, 2010)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> It was that kind of model that influenced me when I was younger and eventually landed me in this hobby.
> 
> Wine you say? Do you drink that Nobilo? Wife loves it so there's always one at the ready in the fridge.
> 
> BTW...remember that point about 'going slow' ;D



Carl

Thanks; this has been a long time getting to this state and I was about half my current age when it was started and now I'm a few years off retirement. Plan is to get the skills up and when the big day comes get stuck into a serious project myself.

Sorry to say I was drinking Ozzie red. But good to hear you are helping the NZ economy and taking your bar management responsibilities seriously. Nothing worse than a warm Cab Sav or Chardy.

Steady and demonstrable progress is the way to go 



			
				NickG  said:
			
		

> Great stuff Pete - looks like it's got some poke!
> 
> Some of them are unbelievable, last time we did it a 3.5" Evening Star came 4th hauling 1307lbs 2839 yards on 15oz of coal!
> 
> Bet you can't wait to get it running on live steam!



Nick

My thoughts as well when I first ran it, it makes those 10mm bore engines I made look like toys. I understand that the problem with 3.5 gauge is traction and not power. They dont have enough weight to get the load moving.

Heaven knows what a 7 would be like, frightening comes to mind.



			
				SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> I'm looking forward to seeing your finished locomotive.



Sam

Thanks; and me to, hopefully Ill get it done before the NZ summer. Theres is a bit of a deadline as the club are planning to replace the 3.5 track so the current one could be ripped up before Im ready _(thought; it may be an opportunity for a length of the old track for the garden!)_

Pete


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## NickG (Sep 13, 2010)

Pete,

You're right, a 3.5" A4 was there yesterday, it managed to pull 800lb 4800 yards in 20 minutes using 28oz coal. Struggled with a bit of slip to start with though.

There were 2 x 7 1/4" 0-6-0 tank locos - the one that won hauled 3300lbs 3690 yards in 20 minutes and used 46 oz of coal, hardly slipped setting off - quite a dead weight to get rolling and pull up the first gradient - incredible power. to get an idea of scale though, 2" bore 3" stroke! The incredible thing was he managed to steam up from cold in 15 minutes!

Anyway, sorry for a bit off topic there, it's things like this thread and seeing them in action that will spur me on to get mine done though!

Keep up the good work.

Nick


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## doubletop (Sep 14, 2010)

Nick

No; not off topic at all and interesting stuff. I'll be happy when I get mine to move under its own steam. And I'll be enough of a load for it.

Pete


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## doubletop (Sep 14, 2010)

I've been meaning to post links to these pics I've found of the real thing, or at last as close as Martin Evans design was to anything the Caledonian Railway used to operate









> http://www.geoffspages.co.uk/monorail/kg/page07/index.htm
> 
> 56169 was built as a dock shunter for the Caledonian Railway. St Rollox










> http://www.railbrit.co.uk/location.php?loc=Polloc%20and%20Govan%20Railway
> 
> Polmadie: Ex-Caledonian Beetle Crusher 56154, one of the sturdy McIntosh 2F 0-6-0T (original 498 Dock Class) locomotives, stands in the sidings at the Rutherglen end of Polmadie shed, probably in 1959. The locomotive was withdrawn from Polmadie in June of that year and cut up at Cowlairs Works 5 months later. [With thanks to John Robin]
> Polloc and Govan Railway
> K A Gray [//1959] Ref: 23739



Pete


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## NickG (Sep 15, 2010)

Nice to see pics of the real thing. One like mine is in the railway museum at york - great to see the thing in the flesh!


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## doubletop (Sep 15, 2010)

Nick

I'd imagine your example in the York Railway museum looks in a far better state than these two sad examples waiting in the depature lounge. This was 1959 so this pair are no doubt now part of the Severn suspension bridge or somesuch structure.

Pete


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## doubletop (Sep 24, 2010)

Last weekend was a bit slow and all I managed to achieve was repainting the steam fittings from the original 80's red to the more contemporary black.







And I fitted the gas burner differently as I didn't really like the way my dad had done it. The gas burner was a commercial item I had bought for my dad some years ago. I don't know the name of the suppliers but I do recall going to pick it up from some place in Surrey that was located in some sheds close to the river. Was this the original Bruce Engineering? This may not be for the purists but its going to be the clean way to run the engine without having to do a major clean up each time I do.







So that was my weekend. However, the highlight of the week was finding somebody to professionally spray paint the plate work parts I'd sandblasted and etch primed. I had thought about using spray cans but the results have always been a bit hit and miss. I do have a compressor and spray guns but didn't want to learn how to use them on this job. It would have been too much work to start the whole prep again because I'd cocked it up. 






I am really pleased with the finish, the spray shop used a two pack paint and baked all the parts to finish them. Now all I have to do is put it all back together. That shouldn't take too long but I'm in no rush. On the way I want to re-do pressure test on the boiler, check out the burner and raise some steam. 

Pete


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## kustomkb (Sep 24, 2010)

Wow! Awesome work on your loco. Your attention to detail is superb!


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## don-tucker (Sep 25, 2010)

This engine will be stunning Pete,I thought of black for my engine,not sure yet,can't wait to see it all back together.
I am looking for a "next project" Rob Roy is high on the list after seeing your posts.
Don


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## doubletop (Sep 25, 2010)

Kevin/Don

Thanks for your support. I am so pleased I went for the professional paint job. I've been working with the parts today and I can tell they are going to last. The guys even used the spray can I had used for the buffer bars to paint the sides of the running boards. Their results are far superior to mine, maybe I should have go them to do the frames.

Despite saying I'd take it slowly, I've been getting on quite well today.

Put all the bits back on the cab;







Installed the steam fittings on the boiler;







From the photo I can see the back head needs cleaning up a bit.

Put the "Caledonian Railway" transfers on the tanks and varnished them







Installed the cylinder lagging and running boards







Tomorrow I'm going to pressure test the boiler to check for any leaks in the fittings. No point in putting it all together to have to take it apart for something silly.

I then may steam up the boiler to check the burner works. Again no point in finding out it doesn't do the job.

I'll let you know how I go

Pete


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## NickG (Sep 25, 2010)

Pete, fantastic work there and it looks amazing. We all can't wait to see it in action!

Best mention that your dad did a fantastic job on making it in the first place.

 :bow:


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## doubletop (Sep 25, 2010)

Nick

Thanks; you are right. This is about the work my dad did in making this in the first place. I'm just hoping I'll do it justice in getting it finished.

I know he's following this thread back in the UK so he'll appreciate your comments.

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Sep 25, 2010)

Great work there Pete.

All I can say is, you are doing your old man proud.


John


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## ozzie46 (Sep 25, 2010)

Looking great Pete. Have to agree, Dad did a good job on it.

 Ron


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## arnoldb (Sep 25, 2010)

Pete, this locomotive will be a beauty when finished :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold
(who is green with envy!)


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## Deanofid (Sep 26, 2010)

This is really going to be smashin', Pete!


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## doubletop (Sep 26, 2010)

John/Ron/Arnold/Dean

Thanks again for your support; another days progress to report.

I installed all the steam fittings as planned and pressure tested them. Safety valves are my nemesis and one of them leaked, probably to be expected after so long. I cleaned the seat with brasso whacked the ball and replaced it and it seemed to fix it so I mounted the boiler on the frames.

First up was a last photo of the underside with the valve gear, brakes and blowdown valves installed








Boiler installed







After the leak test it was time to try the burner. Filled the boiler and fired it up. The picture isn't that good as you can't see the burner alight with the flash







Then we had steam

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omqa6wT_DjQ[/ame]

First run I didn't get any pressure and the second run I could only manage 20 psi. Something is leaking somewhere. I started to systematically remove steam fittings and insert blanking plugs to work out which was causing the problem. Anyway I wasn't to un-pleased by this momentous stage until I realized I'd installed the the boiler without the boiler bands. Time to remove it again and fit them, so leak tracking can wait until another day.

By way of consolation I decided to fit the tanks and loose fit the cab











I'll give the leak tracking a go one evening in the week. You never know I may get it running next weekend.

Pete


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 26, 2010)

Awesome Awesome Awesome.
I'm with Arnold...green with envy.
Thanks for the pics of some originals!
No doubt you'll soon find that leak and wheels will be turning.


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## cfellows (Sep 26, 2010)

Missed this thread, somehow. Sure is some nice work! Looks time intensive...

Chuck


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## doubletop (Sep 27, 2010)

Carl and Chuck

I don't know about being envious with Arnold, its giving me a few moments right now. 

I stripped it back to just the boiler in the frames removed all the fittings I suspected and blanked off the ports on the others. Safety valves removed and replaced with blanking plugs. Still no pressure, then I realized what was leaking. It was the pump. You know I advised the use of those MTB shock pumps well I've found the weakness. The pressure relief button is held closed by a small conical spring. Well it is until the spring goes rusty, the button isn't held in place, and the pump leaks. I found something suitable in the junk box and was on my way again _(wheel tappers cracked hammer comes to mind)_

I got it to hold 50-60 psi, more than enough to get it to run. I systematically replaced the fittings one by one, pressure testing each time. Once I'd got the safety's and pressure gauge in time for another steam up but I can't get it past about 20psi.

So next thoughts are the burner, How much to crank it up, (I had a few flash overs which were interesting), whether to have the fire door open or closed and whether or not to try the blower, all to get more heat. I'll do a separate post in Q&A as I know some use gas burners on their locos, Shred for one I think.

That's it for today

Pete


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## gbritnell (Sep 27, 2010)

Pete,
What a fabulous restoration. The once plain engine has been transformed into an elegant piece of equipment. Well done!!!
gbritnell


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## NickG (Sep 27, 2010)

Pete, great work it's looking spot on. Can't help with the burner, I'd say using the blower might be worth a try though, I've seen the smokebox door open a few times with a coal burner and the flames come right down the tubes. When you've got the draft from the exhaust when running that is going to draw the fire, the burner would have to be turned well up to replicate the heat from a built up coal fire I'd say, if you've ever fired one on the run, the fires absolutely roar with the blast from the exhaust.

Nick


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## doubletop (Sep 28, 2010)

George

Thanks for the compliments. As I've mentioned before I had been reluctant to start this in case I mess up may dads efforts. But it is turning out better than I had dreamed, the professional paint job was well worth it.

Nick

The gas burner issue has been resolved on another post thanks. Its going back to coal..... tonight.

Pete


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## Deanofid (Sep 28, 2010)

That is now one very handsome loco, Pete! Getting excited to see it run.

Dean


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## doubletop (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks Dean

Unfortunately running is going to be a bit later than planned. I had hoped the ceramic burner would have enough oomph to get it going on blocks. It doesn't appear that is possible. 

So the revised plan is to finish putting it all together. Take it to the club to show the guys (which will be next Wednesday). I can use their experience to show me how to fire it up on coal and get the accumulator test done, which should be one Sunday next month. Once it gets that part of the certification done I'll then be able run it on the track.

Tonight I took the boiler off _(again)_, removed the ceramic burner, refitted the fixings for the ash pan, refitted the boiler _(again)_ fitted the tanks _(again)_ and started the cab fitting. I then found that wouldn't work because to fit it properly the cab needs to be pushed forward over the boiler to fit the manifold. Which means the tanks will have to come off _(again)_. No pics because its not noticeably different to previous pics.

I'll get there and be able to take it apart and re-assemble in the dark by the time I'm done.

Pete


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## NickG (Sep 28, 2010)

Pete, the disassembly / reassembly is always the same the way I remember it!!!

It's a shame the burner isn't up to it, I've no doubt it would have been much cleaner / easier to run with the gas burner but in my opinion it would have sort of taken some of the fun out of it, so a bit selfishly, I'm sort of glad it's going back to being coal fired!

Great work.

Nick


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## SAM in LA (Sep 28, 2010)

Pete,

Your engine looks wonderful and I'll bet that you will get it sorted and steaming down the track.

Keep up the good work.

Regards,

SAM


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## doubletop (Sep 29, 2010)

Nick/Sam thanks; its amazing the benefit of putting the job down walking away and coming back later. I set about this tonight expecting another strip down. Five mins later I had it worked out and managed to get the cab completed.












Underside with gas burner removed and ash pan installed







In fact I got more than the cab completed I got the rest of the parts installed



























So that's about it, job done for now when I get it properly steamed up I'll post a video. Thanks for your support on the way everybody

_(I may do some more pics tomorrow without the glare from the flash)_

Pete


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## zeeprogrammer (Sep 29, 2010)

Awesome looking engine Pete. Beautiful work. Inspiring too.
I love that shot into the cab!
You must be proud!

Looking forward to the video!


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## ozzie46 (Sep 29, 2010)

Excellent Pete. Thm: Thm: Thm:
  Job well done. I only hope my Simplex looks half as good when its done.

 Ron


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## doubletop (Sep 30, 2010)

Carl, I'm very happy with it thanks. I'll be happier when I have run but I'm conscious it will never look the same again. That said its meant to be used.

Ron - I'm sure your Simplex will look great and hopefully my efforts will help in some way, if only to spur you on. The recommendation of the sand blaster was the best I had. Using an etch primer and the two pack spray job just made it.

I promised final pics so here they are






























Pete


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## don-tucker (Sep 30, 2010)

Well done Pete and thanks
Don


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## NickG (Oct 1, 2010)

Pete, it looks superb :bow: it seems your Dad paid a lot more attention to detail than some Rob Roy builders, so many I have seen the builders have cut corners to make it easier but yours looks like the real thing.

Nick


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## doubletop (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks Don and Nick

Dad's emphasis was on making it and not necessarily making a loco to run, if you follow what I mean. So from what I can tell he made everything in the Martin Evans book even the 'optional' parts like the brakes. Which Martin Evans acknowledges are purely cosmetic and aren't going to do much to stop the engine let alone a truck and a 80kg driver.

Interestingly I don't have the plans so I asked him if he'd had a set and he told me he'd just built it from the book.

Pete


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## Groewrs (Oct 2, 2010)

Beautiful job, Harry & Pete! Pictures like this give me a kick in the bum to get my Super Simplex progressing ;D

Gordon


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## doubletop (Oct 26, 2010)

Gordon

Apologies for the delay, I've been away during the Google episode. Thanks for you comments and hopefully my efforts will spur you on.

Pete


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## SBWHART (Oct 26, 2010)

Lovely job Pete its given me inspirations for me get my Jumbo finished.

Good luck with the steaming and first run.

Stew


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## doubletop (Oct 26, 2010)

While I've been away things have progressed a bit. Actually they've progressed a lot.

You'll recall I had an problem with getting anything above 25psi on gas. So was going to drop the idea. I went to the club at the beginning of the month to show the guys where I had got to and commented on the gas issue. A couple of days later Gavin called me and gave me the name of somebody who, with others has successfully been running locos on propane. One of them a Rob Roy and even a 5" gauge.

Anyway Dave invited me round to his place on the weekend and we spent about 4 hours working through things. I left with a list of jobs.


Run it on air for an extended period with plenty of oil to free it up.
Replace the balls in the safety valves with stainless _(*don't *use bike ball bearings they rust up and your safety valves quickly become un-safety valves)_
Mount a gas connection on the rear buffer bar
Fix the hand pump
Make an electric blower
Add a gas deflector on the burner

It's the deflector that's the key to success. This is from these guys experience and years of running successfully. The problem with running on gas is the blower draws the flame down the fire tubes and eventually off the burner head and the flame goes out. They'd also realized that as this draw off of the flame occurs little heat reaches the back-head end of the firebox. Dave also lent me a propane bottle, valves, pressure guages etc to get me going. Great!!

Deflector on the fire tube end of the burner








Deflector fitted in the firebox







Burner installed, also with shield around the primary air inlet _(maybe this isn't necessary)_







Gas pipe work installed







So this is the first time I'd run it on steam, and of course gas fired.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tMDODla1g[/ame]

Now its freed up it will run on 5 psi and is even quieter now its been run on steam.

Over this past weekend I made a blower out of a computer fan, a plastic funnel and length of 22mm copper pipe 







I thought long pipe to keep the temp from the fan _(OK how long is that going to last?) _ . It does the job very well and I've got loads of these cheap fans from dead computers. I can now go from a cold fill, fire up the burner and be at 80psi in 10 mins. I did it again tonight just to confirm it wasn't fluke. I tried to get a video but it didn't come out that well.

Next job is the accumulation test at the club and running on the track.

Pete


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## doubletop (Oct 26, 2010)

sbwhart  said:
			
		

> Lovely job Pete its given me inspirations for me get my Jumbo finished.
> 
> Good luck with the steaming and first run.
> 
> Stew



Thanks Stew; and you got the answer quicker than you probably expected. Now you've got to get your Jumbo finished!! ;D

Pete


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## NickG (Oct 26, 2010)

Brilliant Pete,

Not seen the video yet but well done! When I saw your plastic blower fan must admit I thought 'oh dear' because I tried that for the first one I made and it just melted in a matter of seconds, maybe yours is far enough away!

 :bow:


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## ozzie46 (Oct 26, 2010)

Looks good Pete. thanks for the video. Sounds great too.

 Ron


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## 1hand (Oct 26, 2010)

Very Nice indeed!! :bow:

Couple of questions I have because I'm a newbie to the steam loco scene:

Is your loco running in reverse in the video?

And does that loco have a whistle?


Great Job!
Matt


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## arnoldb (Oct 26, 2010)

Good going Pete - it runs like a champ 

Can't wait to hear what the loco sounds like when pulling some weight on the track; the exhaust beats should be very nice!

Arnold


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## zeeprogrammer (Oct 26, 2010)

Augh! Another thread I shouldn't have popped into.
I love locos.

That's a wonderful job Pete. And congratulations. It sounds great!


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## doubletop (Oct 27, 2010)

NickG  said:
			
		

> .......When I saw your plastic blower fan must admit I thought 'oh dear' because I tried that for the first one I made and it just melted in a matter of seconds, maybe yours is far enough away!



Thanks Nick. 

I thought no way until somebody at the club turned up with one on a short funnel. He said his worked fine so I decided to give it a go. I can get boiler pressure up to 80psi and still hold the top of the pipe to remove it so its fine. I then go on the engine blower. I do make sure I don't put steam through it but if it goes rusty I'll just stick another one in.

Thanks Matt

No its running in forward just strobeing I'd imagine. A combination of camera saving as .mpeg, Windows movie maker conversion to .wmv and Youtube conversion to flash. Something gets lost en-route.

Yes it has a whistle under the left running board

Thanks Arnold

Looking forward to being able to run it myself. Not far off now

Thanks Ron

Believe me it sounds better in the flesh. Nice and smooth.

Thanks Zee

Hopefully you'll get back to yours and we can see that running as well _(change that ball though)_

Pete


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## doubletop (Oct 31, 2010)

A big day today, the boiler completed its certification and now I can take it onto the track. I don't have a running trolley so one of the club members is going to lend me his 3.5" guage trolley so it will be next weekend, weather permitting. The good thing is its all fitted out for running on on propane so ideal.

It's going to be a slow week............

Pete


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## NickG (Oct 31, 2010)

Great video Pete, looks like it's going to have plenty of power.

Bet you can't wait, have fun on the track.

Nick


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## Blogwitch (Oct 31, 2010)

Well done Pete on getting your boiler cert. I didn't really have any doubts about it, because of the quality of build. You now have a loco that should last a lifetime if looked after.

I bet you will be dreaming about going around the track all week. Maybe you should give it a bit more air and oil this week, just to bed it in a little more.


John


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## doubletop (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks Nick, Thanks John.

Its all coming together nicely; I had intended to get it done by the summer (December in the antipodes) and it looks like I will. I may have mentioned before the club are planning to rip up the 3.5" gauge track and re-build it thus year so I do need to get in quickly before the work starts. Of course I'll have also an interest in assisting getting the new track built.

It nearly had a quick outing today, but just as we tried to start it there was a strange clicking noise. One of the taper pins had come out of the cross head. I hadn't loctite'd them in when I did the valve timing so that was it for the day (it had started raining as well). A clean out with the taper reamer of both sides, just in case they both been loose and gone out of shape, and two new taper pins with loctite fixed it. I may run it again on air but even now, once its started it ticks over nicely on 5psi.

Hopefully the weather will be kind and things will go well. I'm plan to get some video of the event so there may be something posted on here.

Pete


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## zeeprogrammer (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm looking forward to the video!


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## arnoldb (Oct 31, 2010)

> I'm looking forward to the video!


Me too ;D - I hope the weather plays along for you!

Regards, Arnold


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## doubletop (Nov 7, 2010)

Well the weather turned out fine and we went to the track. The riding trolley is on loan from one of the club members. It is fitted out for gas running with the cylinder in a box at the rear with the regulator and gas control valves and gauges at the front.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIqaLG1D7wk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIqaLG1D7wk[/ame]

The sound in the background is the main track with the paying customers taking their kids for a day out. So before you ask, no that's not my horn! 

It was a great day and a momentous event. The main problem was maintaining steam pressure enough to get a good run. I kept having to stop and steam up again. Also maintaining water level in the boiler was a bit of an issue, the water tanks had to be filled twice, so the water was going somewhere. _ (the lever sticking out of the left hand tank is the hand pump)_

Certainly I need to look at the burner output to maintain steam pressure. The experienced gas burner guys think I have a problem with primary/secondary air supply. They have plans for a different burner type so I may well try that. Maybe there's also a valve timing problem that needs investigating. 

That said, as you can see I'm a big guy and with the trolley, gas cylinder etc the all up weight was 145kg or 320lbs so the little thing did well.

All in all a good day, and all these things can get sorted. I'm happy ;D ;D ;D ;D

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Nov 7, 2010)

Absolutely great Pete.

You can tell from the sound of your voice that you are happy with the outcome. Just a few bits of fine tuning to do and away you go.

I think you and your old man have proved that you can build a great model between you.


John


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## doubletop (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks John

Yes I was very pleased with the outcome and it is fine tuning is all that is required. With the stop start nature of getting round the track I think the others were more disappointed for me than I was myself.

Today could be looked on as testing, I've always taken the view that the purpose of testing isn't to find out what works but to find out what doesn't. If it had sailed round the track doing a couple of circuits without any problems I'd have learned nothing.

Pete


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## don-tucker (Nov 7, 2010)

Well done Pete,a nice video to finish with,I have really enjoyed these posts,I have a mate who has just bought a Rob roy made in Switzerland with metric threads,He has it stripped down so he will find your posts of great interst,
Don


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## ozzie46 (Nov 7, 2010)

AWRIGHT!!! Looks and sounds great. It will be even better when you get the monor things sorted out.

 Ron


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## NickG (Nov 7, 2010)

Brilliant Pete 

Bet you're really chuffed, it sounds superb too.

I was reading a book with a section about steaming up the other day and it had some info in there which I guess applies to whether it's gas or coal fired. It will certainly help me in the future as I am guilty of it...

It said, one of the most common mistakes people make is to set off as soon as the boiler reaches pressure - I do it, whereas really you should spend a bit of time just doing a couple of short bursts back and forth with drain cocks open to let the rest of the engine warm up, and the boiler isn't really up to full temperature either yet, everything is relatively cold. Of course the effect with a coal fired one is worse as you end up needing to pump water back into the boiler and lose the fire, at least you don't lose the fire and have to start again. It said to spend another 10 or 15 minutes just building a better fire once it's blowing off and letting things heat up.

Nick


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 7, 2010)

Congratulations Pete! Awesome. :bow:
Thanks for showing the video.
I am so jealous.
Thanks for the 'ride'.


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## d.bick (Nov 7, 2010)

Pete
Well done! A fine engine.
 You will soon get used to steaming your small engine. They are a lot harder than 5 gauge and bigger.
A friend of mine fires both of his 2 scale Fowler ploughing engines on propane gas, when he is doing his ploughing demonstration at steam rallies.
What we have found is although gas is clean and easily managed, it dose not give out the same heat as coal and using gas on a road run you soon run out of steam. 
 Dave Bick


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## 1hand (Nov 7, 2010)

That was a real treat to see! Thanks, and great job.

Matt


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## SBWHART (Nov 7, 2010)

Great stuff Peter, 

:big: :big: :big: :big: :big: :big:


Congratulations

Stew


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## Maryak (Nov 7, 2010)

sbwhart  said:
			
		

> Great stuff Peter,
> 
> :big: :big: :big: :big: :big: :big:
> 
> ...



Me too. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## arnoldb (Nov 7, 2010)

;D ;D Great stuff Pete ;D ;D Very well done - both yourself and your dad :bow:

I'm sitting here with one of the biggest smiles I've had on my dial for a long time - purely enjoying your fun Thm:

And as for the sound; I commented on it with wagons; didn't realize the wagon would be that heavy; Great stuff! Runs nice and sounds nice :bow: :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold
(I'm just as green as Carl right now :big


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## doubletop (Nov 8, 2010)

Don, Ron, Nick, Carl, Dave, Matt, Stew, Bob, Arnold

Thanks for your good wishes, it was certainly a great day.

Tonight I've been researching a new burner based on an article "Gas Firing for William" C H Hopkins (Oz) in Model Engineer 18 July 1986 and "Propane Burner" Lindsay McDonnell Modeltec Magazine June 1989. These articles were the basis of successful burners being used in NZ for some time.

The idea is to get more gas an air into the system and better combustion. I've just spent a number of hours trying to find out what drill sizes relate to gas jet sizes numbers so I can quantify the #15 jet in my ceramic burner. A bigger number is larger hole but a bigger drill number is a smaller hole, so its not that. I've found a web page that gives the BTU/hr for various hole sizes vs PSI.

I'll do a separate post

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 19, 2010)

OK I didn't do a separate post so I'll do it here.

The problem I am having with running successfully is although I can get the engine up to pressure relatively easily maintaining it is a problem so I end up going round the track in short runs followed by a recovery of pressure then on again. On the assumption that the more heat you can get into the engine the more steam you make and keep up the pressure. I have been experimenting with burners and learned something from the exercise. Some of it is blindingly obvious but it has helped me understand what is going on, or not as the case may be. 

The basics being.


To get more heat you need to burn more gas (I said it was blindingly obvious stuff)
The amount of gas you burn is a factor of jet size and jet inlet pressure.
You need the right balance of primary and secondary air to ensure complete combustion (its about a ratio 1:24 gas:air for propane (4%:96%)

I made myself a test rig so I could see what was going on. Regulator on the gas bottle, Input pressure gauge and output pressure gauge after the gas tap









The assumed problem with the ceramic burner is it can't get enough secondary air. If it is running on the electric blower its fine, on the steam blower its fine. But the engine whistles like kettle as it tries to draw air through the holes on the firebox door. If the pressure is too high, and the blower is off, it flashes back with a huge pop or just goes out. If it goes out there's no idication as you can still hear the gas flowing. Not good

I started with making a new burner based on the articles in the previous post. The intention being that the gaps between the tubes would allow enough secondary air.












 It worked, but it wasn't as successful as I had hoped lots smell of unburned gas and steaming took way longer than with the ceramic burner. The other big problem the burner head was at the level of the foundation ring on the firebox and any slight gust of wind would result in flames outside the the firebox.

Second attempt was a version with a crank in the mixer tube. 







That got over the external flames but other than that the results weren't much better than the previous version

I then turned to resolving the secondary air issue with the ceramic burner I had seen a version of a burner with tubes running through it. I wasn't about to hack my burner about in case I was wrong so set about making a copy












This one works fine and even stays alight without any blowers going and the gas feed at 20psi. Its looking good but I still am loosing steam pressure when running. A glob of ptfe tape under one of the safety valve balls wasn't helping and I'm not happy with the valve timing so I have stripped down all the pistons and valves today.

More on that later.............

Pete


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## HS93 (Dec 19, 2010)

This may sound stupid and I may have missed it being sugested but how about a small air pump to supply air to the burner, I used at school (a long long time ago) a gas torch that had a small compresor the heat was far far grater with the extra air, could this be used as there are some very small compessors these days (a striped down tire unit and a set of nicads) Just a thought

Peter


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## doubletop (Dec 20, 2010)

Peter

An small air blower in the chimney is the way you get these started, then there is a steam bleed blower to draw air through the boiler to get it up to pressure. When its running the exhaust causes a good draft. Dare I say using an electric fan when you are running does seem to be cheating as its supposed to be a steam engine.

getting the burner air ratio right is the way to go

Pete


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## HS93 (Dec 20, 2010)

No the idea was to mix it with the gas in the burner itself to get more heat . I don't think sucking in that air has the same effect.

Peter


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## Fingers (Dec 20, 2010)

I just read this thread and I could not believe it when I saw you traveling down the track on the back it 8), I have no experience in reading looking or seeing anything to do with steam engines but well done looks like a serious machine.
Jamie


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## doubletop (Dec 21, 2010)

Peter

I think its much the same thing creating a pressure differential except that sucking the air through the flue means that the air flow, and heat goes where you want it to, through the boiler tubes.

Fingers

Thanks, I tell you there was nobody more amazed than me when it moved and kept moving.

John

Read you post, but its gone AWOL since so I'll not comment. But thanks for contributing your wisdom, I think I'm getting there but I'll do a separate post.

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 21, 2010)

An update on the valve timing. Those of you who have been following this thread will have seen the video of the first time I ran it on air. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwH2MOvkbBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwH2MOvkbBM[/ame]

As it turned out it was not very good so I stripped it down again and did the valve timing

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBodAZdHhRc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBodAZdHhRc[/ame]

This is how it has been since then and that's how it was when I ran it on the track. It was becoming obvious it wasn't right and the guys in the club were giving me plenty of advice on how to get it sorted. Trouble was the write up in the Martin Evans book wasn't that clear to me and the advice I was getting was going over my head. However one bit of advice I did get was to get hold of the Dockstader valve gear simulation here

http://www.bittercreekwesternrr.org/Dockstader-Valve-Gear.html

With all the dimensions in the Martin Evans book I was able to model my engine and get some idea how the valve gear worked. After a bit of a play I re-read Martins instructions and it made sense. As did a lot of the stuff I was being told by the guys.

So I bit the bullet and did another strip down. No photos because it is much the same as before. This time I took the piston covers off to help see what was going on and noticed that one piston came further up the bore on the foreword stroke than the other. Investigation went on for an hour or so trying to figure out why. I traced it to the piston rod where it went into the crosshead. It hadn't gone fully home when it was originally crossed drilled for the taper pin. This made one piston rod 1mm longer than the other. I wasn't going to let it go after stripping it all down just in case it really mattered. I didn't want to go back and do it again. Trouble was 1mm meant that if I rotated the piston rod and re-drilled it would break through the original hole. If I made a new rod I couldn't ensure that the piston would go on squarely and I certainly couldn't re-skim the piston. Nothing for it but make a new piston and rod.

To cut a long story short the new piston was fitted, the valve timing set up and the whole lot put back together and run on air. You'll see it now runs smoothly on pretty much no pressure. Point to note I made an adapter that replaces the oiler clack, with the regulator shut the boiler doesn't pressurize and with a small air regulator its easy to control. You'll also see the new burner installed.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-19uly6thq8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-19uly6thq8[/ame]

I also steamed it up and with the new burner and timing and other things sorted it now maintains pressure way way better than it did. But I'll save that until I get it onto the track again.

Pete


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## SBWHART (Dec 21, 2010)

Well done Pete :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: getting the valve timing set is a real migraine job it took me weeks to get mine set up and then I cheated , machined up new slide valves with air running geometry, when I start up again thats going to be my first job, some correct slide valves, that valve simulator will be very useful thanks for the link.

I love the video runs real sweet very impressive on slow tick over.

All the best

Stew


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 21, 2010)

Sounds like great progress Pete.
I'm looking forward to another video of you cruising around the track.


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## doubletop (Dec 22, 2010)

Stew/Carl

Thanks. The trouble with doing this the first time around is you have no idea what constitutes 'right'. A bit of observation of others helps. For example I was watching one of the guys training a driver on his loco. "leave the drain cocks open on starting"; each would emit a satisfying hiss as each port opened in turn on pulling away. Mine didn't do that but until I saw this doing it I had no idea something was wrong. It does it now and sounds great.

Another thing; with the gear lever in neutral and the regulator open it just vented steam through the stack. It doesn't do that now either. Put it in neutral with the regulator open and nothing but the roar of the burner.

So I'm feeling confident that it will run way better now. I did fire it up last night and it will now run and maintain around 60psi if I notch back the gear lever.

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm so sorry Pete, I deleted my post to you by mistake. I will make sure no more to you go the same way.

But as long as you got the info before it happened, then fine.


John


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## doubletop (Jan 2, 2011)

New Years Greetings

A bit more on running. I know Zee is waiting for the fully recorded documentary much like "Great Railway Journeys of the World", but not today.

This was the first track run since I had done the new burner, installed a gas jet pressure gauge, reset the timing, improved the method for initial water fill, improved the sight glass and more recently modified the mechanical lubricator which was going through oil like Deep Water Horizon (maybe not).

It ran well, only one flame-out but that was operator error when I stopped and didn't open the blower.

This is brief clip when all was going well and I was finally enjoying the ride and not functioning like one armed paper hanger and then realized I had a camera in my pocket.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iugzOVs-73E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iugzOVs-73E[/ame]

The sticky out bit on the left is the hand pump lever. I do still have water feed problems when running and the lad you'll hear running beside me had a jug of water in had ready for a top up!

You'll see it noticeably slow, labour and stop on the bend. That's a track problem and its a bit tight there, the good news is the elevated track is being ripped out in Feb and is being completely re-built.

Pete


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## Henk (Jan 2, 2011)

doubletop  said:
			
		

> http://www.bittercreekwesternrr.org/Dockstader-Valve-Gear.html



Pete, for some reason the link just shows me a lot of sponsored links. Although searching for "valve gear" does bring steam related stuff, but it is not obvious how to get to the right place. There is probably a button I should press somewhere for the valve gear, but I failed to find it.


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## doubletop (Jan 2, 2011)

Henk

You are right. I get the same thing, I've redone the search and all the other links lead back to the same sponsored links. Maybe they are doing some web admin and it will come right later.

However, one of the links does quote it as freeware;





> _.........He _(Charlie) _has generously made the software available by placing it in the public domain as freeware. Charlie has discontinued his own web page but the software can now be downloaded from the...._



I did download the entire package so could post it back here on the downloads page if the moderators are OK with that.

Pete


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## compspecial (Jan 2, 2011)

WOW! running perfectly, double top! I wonder how hot the flue gas is, can't see a wisp of water vapour or steam from the chimney.


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## graemetbrown (Jan 2, 2011)

doubletop  said:
			
		

> You are right. I get the same thing, I've redone the search and all the other links lead back to the same sponsored links.


Looks like that website has closed down. The program has moved about a bit lately, but at present you can find a copy of the Windows version here.
http://www.billp.org/Dockstader/ValveGear.html

Regards,
GB


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## zeeprogrammer (Jan 2, 2011)

Awesome Pete.
Thanks for posting that and I'm drooling for more.


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## doubletop (Jan 2, 2011)

CompS

It was a warm dry day here in NZ (20degC). I believe the flue gas temp is OK . If you trawl back through my thread you'll see the stainless baffle installed with the burner, it tends to keep the heat in the firebox. I static ran it once with the new burner and no baffle and I've got a bit of paint damage on the smoke box now.

Zee

Glad you liked it, but please don't make a mess on my account? I wouldn't want Mrs Zee taking me to task about your habits.

Pete


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## compspecial (Jan 2, 2011)

thanks double top, you will probably see it puff billows of steam on a cold damp winter's day!


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## bentprop (Jan 9, 2011)

Pete,it's probably a bit late for you,but I came across this in an idle surfing session:
http://www.astronomiainumbria.org/a...nica/easyweb.easynet.co.uk/_chrish/robroy.htm
I've just been given a copy of the rob roy/william book,but I don't know if I'll get that far.


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## doubletop (Jan 9, 2011)

Hans

Thanks; in fact I stumbled across this less than a week ago myself and only today commented to one of my local mentors that it was a few months too late.

I came across it looking for details of the oiler as I'm going through oil like nothing (mentioned previously). The book describes building it but there are no drawings. It turns out my dad used a commercial oiler which looks like it was built to the LSBC design documented in Shop Shed & Road. Comparing the dimensions the LSBC oiler will pump 2.5 times more oil than the Martin Harris version. Trouble is I can't make the MH version, as I said, I don't have the drawings.

That brings up another issue discovered today, and the doc on the link you provided doesn't cover, is the hole in the bottom of the smoke box for the steam/exhaust pipes to the cylinders is an oblong slot that nowhere is it mentioned that it needs to be bunged up to get the firebox to draw properly. That's the next job.

Thanks for letting me know though.

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 11, 2011)

It looks like the drawing for the lubricator was an oversight in the original drawings and the book. In my search for it I find that there is a separate drawing for it available from ME/MEW team at MyHobbyStore for £5.95. However, postage to NZ is £6.98!!! for what can be no more than one sheet. Even phone call didn't help so a suitably crafted snotogram has been sent to the ME/MEW editor and the MHS manager. Hopefully they can resolve.

In the meantime I have a fuzzy thumbnail image of the drawing from the MHS website and the Martin Evans words in the book. Hopefully I can reconcile and make some sense of it.

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 13, 2011)

I've been in dialogue with MyHobbyStore about the drawing for £5.95 and postage to NZ is £6.98 and their attempt to justify it. Apparently I was offered a discount on the postage but the email never arrived. In the meantime I realized it was only one sheet and there is a fuzzy copy of the drawing on the MHS link . 






_(Direct link to MyHobbyStore web page)_

Along with the words in the book it was enough to get going, so I set to.

In my spare parts draw I had another lubricator of the LBSC type that is already fitted to the loco. It would give me the container and ratchet mechanism to the right size so it would be form and fit to the original. All I needed to do was replace the insides

All the new parts with the existing container.







I had to modify some of the dimensions to get it to fit the container, but as I didn't have some of them anyway and had to derive them by scaling from the fuzzy drawing. I was remarkably close as found out when I subsequently sourced the Rob Roy and William book, which has the missing drawing included. (Thanks Chris).

All assembled







Alongside the existing. 







You can see how messy the loco is as a result of the amount of oil the existing lubricator has been pumping out

Left over parts from the original LBSC type.







I've tested it by hand with dish washing liquid, it was the nearest to oil without the mess and easy to clean up under the tap. It worked ok emitting a drip or so every few strokes of the piston. It remains to be seen what happens when it is pumping oil against steam pressure.

Now it is all stripped down and the mounting flanges drilled and tapped ready for mounting on the running board. I've just given it a blast in the sand blaster and a coat of etch primer, so that's it for the day.

Pete


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## NickG (Jan 13, 2011)

Not seen a lubricator like that before Pete, how does it work? Can't quite work it out from the drawing.

Nick


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## Blogwitch (Jan 13, 2011)

Pete,

Just a little sidetrack.

If every you have a job that raquires a ratchet to be made, one way clutches (bearings) make a much simpler and easier job of it.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Bearings/Needle-Roller-Clutches


John


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## doubletop (Jan 13, 2011)

Nick

I wasn't too sure myself when I first read the notes in the book but the fuzzy diagram helped.

Its an eccentric bearing on a spring loaded disc on top of a thin rod acting as the piston in a fixed cylinder. There are 4 oil entry holes at 90deg to each other, just above the hex nut holding the cylinder in the container. As the piston is on the up stroke it draws oil into the cylinder. when on the down stoke, and once the end is past the inlet holes, the oil trapped in the remaining length of the cylinder is pushed past the non return valve in the base, and on to the loco cylinders.

That's what I think happens, it remains to be seen if it works in service. Martin Evans write up appears to say it does. The effective piston stroke is way less than the LBSC design, which is what I need

Hope that helps

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 13, 2011)

John

Thanks

I'd heard about those one way bearings in the past few days but hadn't followed up. Its new technology when I'm working with something from the 70's. In my case I had all the ratchet and pawl bits and bobs as that what is on the original and I had less to change around as the new lubricator will drop straight in where the original was; same fittings, linkages etc.

If this doesn't work then a whole new line will need to be taken which may be an opportunity for using these.

I know somebody will come back and propose a displacement lubricator, the drawing update link Bentprop posted proposes using one but LBSC wasn't very complimentary about them. I don't really have an opinion I'm just trying to stop my loco emulating the Torrey Canyon or Exon Valdiz before the enviro police get on my case.

Pete

Pete


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## NickG (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks Pete, so it just pumps the little bit of oil that's sucked in through the holes and runs into the bottom. Yeah it does have a rather limited pumping stroke but if that's the idea in this case great, it looks more controllable. There are less places for it to fail too. With the oscillating type there are more interfaces etc.

I know some people have great results with displacement type lubricators - the design of sweet pea (much larger loco) is just to have a displacement type on each cylinder but I prefer the look of mechanical lubricators on a loco.

Nick


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## doubletop (Jan 14, 2011)

That's the theory; it remains to be seen if it works in practice. 

After painting the new lubricator casing I reassembled everything and before I installed in the loco thought I'd give it another test with dish washing liquid; nothing.......... So I stripped it all down again and set to understanding why it didn't work now. I tried a few things but there seemed no particular reason for it not working so I thought I'd better try some steam oil rather than cheating with the dish washing liquid. The real oil worked fine so its in the process of being put back together again..........

_(there's a lesson in there somewhere)_

Pete


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## NickG (Jan 14, 2011)

Steam Oil's pretty viscous stuff I suppose. Is the piston silver steel, with a ground rod and reamed cylinder it should have agood enough fit, wonder if you could put some small o ring on there to help the seal though.

Nick


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## doubletop (Jan 14, 2011)

I'm thinking that there is a possibility that the bore may have been damaged in the making, test, assemble and disassemble processes. The piston rod is only 3/32" (2.37mm) The ball in the valve is 1/8" (3.175mm) I could remake the piston in 2.5mm or 3mm and re ream the bore. At least the design is that simple it allows that to be done fairly easly without having to remake a whole lot of parts.

I am going to put it all together today as it is and give it a run to see how it goes.

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 15, 2011)

All went well and it works fine. I steamed it up and ran the steam through the cylinder drain cocksto get rid of any remaining oil. I then ran it for a while with the new lubricator. It didn't gobble up all the oil like the last one and when I opened the drain cocks there was plenty of fresh oil was dumped.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XstkME3vi4

Pete


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## NickG (Jan 15, 2011)

Sounds perfect then :bow:


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## arnoldb (Jan 15, 2011)

Good going Pete, and thanks for the video; I was wondering how fast it had to turn!

Regards, Arnold


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## doubletop (Jan 15, 2011)

I had wondered about the offset disc acting as a cam as intuitively it had the wrong profile. However the proof of the pudding is that it all seems fine. It turns freely by hand, so there isn't much loading.

But that also goes to show how wrong it was using the LBSC lubricator. LBSC design suggests ~30 teeth on the ratchet and one click per loco wheel rotation. The Rob Roy setup does 3-4 clicks/rev. I had said previously that based on piston dia and stroke the LBSC lubricator was doing 3 times the volume of the Martin Evans version. In fact it's more than 6 times by virtue of the way it works the Martin Evans version only effectively pumps the volume contained below the 4 inlet holes and the top of the ball valve








 Pete


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## NickG (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought the ratchet was flying round at a fair rate in the video there but as long as the two have balanced out it's all good! ;D


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## doubletop (Feb 9, 2011)

Its been a bit quiet lately tweaking, tuning and getting things to run right as things break, fall off or just don't work properly. Problems have included; loss of steam pressure when running, the pin falling out of reversing lever release handle (which was inconvenient as I was running at the time), the new lubricator packed up and occasionally it would run backwards when forwards was selected ???.

I started looking into the loss of pressure on the valve/piston side of the regulator and think I now understand the reason for that. However, the going backwards when forwards was selected also became obvious. The linkage was loose. This has meant the tanks, cab, running boards, boiler in fact just about everything had to come off to fix it. So now I'm back to a pile of parts.







This may seem major but I had been thinking about a strip down to re-paint or touch up all those parts that have been affected by the constant work I've been doing sorting things. So I'm pretty positive about the whole thing. In fact after tonight there are more bits off than the picture shows.

Pete


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## doubletop (Feb 23, 2011)

I'd got it this far and realised the paintwork on the frames was getting a bit rough with all the work that I'd been doing. So 
why not take the opportunity to keep going and complete the strip down and get it sorted.






You can see what I mean by the state of the paintwork on the frames.

The guys at work got involved in a discussion on painting and convinced me to look at powder coat. So another session in the sand blaster and off the frames and stretchers went to the local powder coaters.






That's way better and far more likely to last a lot longer, $85 well spent. They can't do two colour as the powder flashes through the holes to the other side, so it was either black or red. I chose the red as it give the contrast to the black upper parts and allows the buffer bar faces to be red. The purists will tell me I've got it wrong as these locos were red on the inside of the frames and black on the outside. But this isn't a railway buffs site so who's complaining?

OK there's some wisdom that powder coated frames can have an issue with heat. However, I'm running on gas and the burner is way up in the firebox and there's a water jacket around it. So I'm guessing the heat on the outside of the boiler gets nowhere near the 250degC they use to fix the paint.

While I was onto this second re-refurbish the spray paint job on the smoke box was showing signs of over heating after attempts to produce more steam. So that came off and was sprayed with 3M heatproof paint that goes to 650degC. That needs curing at 200deg C and using the household oven didn't go down well last time so I barbecued it. My barbeque has a temp gauge in the cover so 3/4hour at 240degC did the job.






Now I've just got to put it back together again.

Pete


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## steamer (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks for that

The lubricator discussion is interesting. I run without internal lubrication on my boat as I run condensing.

However,

I have a two piston lube pump similar to yours to lubricate the big ends of the connecting rods.

At 600 rpm, there are two chances of getting oil into a cup and down to the big end....slim and nil.

However, with this set up it works great.  I run 50 weight oil and I run 1 click per revolution and it provides WAY more than enough to take care of the conrods. I connect to the rod via flexible teflon tubing, one end anchored to the back columns, and the other attached to a fixed point on the crosshead. From there it flows via ridgid brass plumbing down to the big ends.  It works really well.

Dave


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## doubletop (Feb 24, 2011)

Dave

Mine works well by itself but when lubing the cyliders its pumping against steam pressure, which could be as much as 80psi (but rarely is). When lubing the conrods its just pumping against air pressure.

Pete


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## doubletop (Mar 2, 2011)

I've got it all back together again and thought I'd spare you the blow by blow and you've seen it all before. Hopefully I've fixed a lot of things along the way


Pinned the reversing lever actuating arm, so forward now means "forward" and not occasionally "back"
Leaking gland nuts repacked
All seals and gaskets on the boiler re-done,
Valve ports re-lapped
Extra frame spreader between pistons so frame geometry is maintained. The front drivers now have some sideways clearance so it may go round corners now! (this is a recommendation from the Rob Roy mods somebody pointed out to me on here)

Hopefully all this will help it run a whole lot better

Nicely repainted frames












You'll notice its got a name now. The guys in the club kept asking me what I was going to call it. There was only one choice, "Harry", my Dad and the guy who did all the work in the first place.







The name plates were made by "Imagineering" Murray. He's just CNC'd his SX3 mill and I challenged him do me some name plates. They're only 30mm x 10mm so required 0.8mm (1/32") end mill to get the tool paths. It took 3 to get the job done. The first broke when the feed rate was way to high. The second when the zero point wasn't set correctly and the machine vice took it out. To be on the safe side we set the feed rate set so low it took 15 hours to machine each plate.







Next thing is to try running it again. That's for the weekend

Pete


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## arnoldb (Mar 2, 2011)

Harry looks really good to me Pete - I love the red chassis Thm:

I'm holding thumbs for your steam-up this weekend! 

Regards, Arnold


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## doubletop (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks Arnold

I'm going to give him a run on the rollers today just to make sure its all back together properly and I haven't missed anything. It will allow me to finish off things like sealing the pipework going in and out of the firebox (no point in doing that until its been test run just in case it all has to come apart again).

Weather report for Sunday isn't too flash but we'll see how it is on the day.

Pete


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## doubletop (Mar 13, 2011)

Well that was an amazing day; as you know for weeks now I've been trying to get my Rob Roy Harry round the club track and it always stops at the same point 3/4 of the way round. So nobody was happier then me when I'd made it back to the start, in one go. The other club members were also surprised to see me as they are used to me being stuck somewhere out on the track. I was sharing the track with the club 5" Speedy and it kept holding me up. But I did manage four laps non stop at one point, despite Speedy not living up to its name. 

Speedy was retired through loss of its fire so I had the track to myself. The guys were passing me bottles of water to top up the tanks and I managed thirteen laps non-stop. I only finished when the lubricator ran out of oil.

Here's a video of a full lap of the track before the camera batteries went flat. You'll see it struggling on the corner it never normally gets round. This time a bit worse than the other laps, probably because I wasn't paying full attention with a camera in my hand

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URngsOTW3hE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URngsOTW3hE[/ame]

And on the subject of paying attention here's a better example of going round the same bend but with different outcome from videoing on the move.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-OMyUKYO8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-OMyUKYO8[/ame]

It wasn't as bad as it looks.

Now I know it can do it, its just a case of improving technique.

Pete


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## arnoldb (Mar 13, 2011)

;D ;D ;D Great going Pete ! th_wav th_wav

Little Harry sure delivered the goods there! I'm sitting here many thousands of miles away with a big grin on my face after seeing those runs ;D

Looks like you've got the burner sorted out as well; you had a lot of steam from the safety valve ;D

Well done - I think you and your dad did a right good job :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold ;D


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## doubletop (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks Arnold

All the little bits of observation, testing, improving parts, trying new things all came together. Its true what they say about these little locos being hard to master. One little thing goes slightly off the norm and it has a major effect on the whole. Later in the afternoon the wind came up a bit giving a headwind into the bad bend and it noticeably slowed me down.

The next thing I have underway is a driving trolley of my own. The loaner trolley I am using weighs over 35Kg (77lbs) and the loco weighs less than 18kg (40lbs). I'm making my new trolley out of aluminium and will only weigh about 10kg (22Lbs). That should improve things a bit more I hope.

Thanks again

Pete


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## doubletop (Mar 21, 2011)

Finally we managed to get all the planets aligned and we had the loco, camera, weather and assistants in the same place at the same time. Our track is effectively two concentric rings with the 7.25" gauge track running around the outside of the 3.5"/5" raised track. Murray (Imagineering) co-opted the driver of one of the club locos to follow me around. So here's a few laps of me with "Harry" doing its thing.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B0fDVx62o0[/ame]

Things were going well so one of the larger gauge loco owners suggested that I should try with a bit more of a load. So a riding truck was rolled out and tagged on the back with the intention of doing a few laps with it. The boys couldn't resist a photo opportunity so all jumped aboard.






It was meant to be a bit of a joke but nobody really expected it to go anywhere did they?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqCynkwWiOk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqCynkwWiOk    [/ame]    

OK; it needed a bit of a helping foot to get it rolling, then again there's a lot of oil on the tracks in the station area as a result of locos starting out with their drain cocks open. The bend it stopped on has always been "Harry's" nemesis as there is a slight rise at that point.

Train weight. The loco is 18kg, I'm 100kg and the driving trolley is 35kg. Dave on the front of the passenger car said he's around 70kg so lets say they are all 70kg and then the passenger car lets say 20kg so that's 453kg total or 996lbs with gas bottles, water etc I think we can call it a round 1000lbs.

Pete


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## Deanofid (Mar 22, 2011)

That's great, Pete! Pulling 25 times it's own weight. What a fun video, for me. I reminds me how much of a kid I still am at my age, and how much I'd like to have see him run in person.
Good job on getting him back on the rails!

Dean


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## BillTodd (Mar 22, 2011)

That looks like a scene from "Last of the summer wine" :big:


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## arnoldb (Mar 22, 2011)

Very good going Pete :bow:
It's really surprising how much power little Harry have!

Kind regards, Arnold


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## slick95 (Mar 22, 2011)

Very Very Nice Pete, looks like lots of fun   

I have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks for sharing...

Jeff


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## Lakc (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks for the ride along Pete! Very happy to see it finished and performing well. I have been following along and you have given me a much greater appreciation for the locomotive arts.


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## doubletop (Mar 23, 2011)

Dean, Bill, Arnold, Jeff, Jeff

Thanks for the comments; its been a bit of a journey. Having never done anything like this before I had no idea what the end result would or should be, so my expectations were exceeded with every step of the way. Each little tweak mostly improved things, sometimes it went backwards. 

When Dave suggested putting on the extra trolley, just by itself, I fully expected it not to go anywhere so I was as surprised as anybody else when it pulled the load it did.

Bill; I know what you mean by Last of the Summer Wine. It seems to be a bit like that in these model engineering clubs. Is it just we are boomers with a lot of free time or a case that we've slowed down to the point where we are patient enough to spend the time needed to do the job properly. Although Compo would have would have been an unlikely club member.

Now I'm building my own riding trolley and there will be some minor tweaks to the loco, none of which is really relevant to the this forum. Then its on to another project which has yet to be determined.

Anyway I hope you have all enjoyed the virtual ride with me.

Pete


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## Proudsister (Mar 24, 2011)

Dear - all who have followed this thread and given Pete their support along the way. 
I've only just seen all this, though I knew Pete was working on the little engine that Dad started to build all those years ago, in his workshop in the UK. I can recall him talking about running a track around the garden for my children (his grandchildren), when they were quite small. Well, Dad is 90 this year and my girls (and now Pete's children) are all grown up - there are also five great grandchildren and one great grandchild. 
I just had to join this forum to say how thrilled I was to read about Pete's efforts to get the little engine running after all this time. Like father, like son, nothing would ever be good enough until it was pretty well perfect. I've now read every page, and I just wanted to say how proud we all are to see 'Harry' finally on the track. 
Well done Pete!


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## doubletop (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks Trish

At least four of the great grand children still have the opportunity to take a ride on "Harry", as not only did "Harry" emigrate to NZ before they were born but they now live in NZ as well. Of course the grand kids also can have a go at driving him.

Pete


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## imagineering (Mar 25, 2011)

Pete, I just saw your 'shout' about this being your last post.
I think that your Ride Trolley is also relevant to this build - well, it will have a Welltank Waterpump Motor in it, won't it?

Murray.


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## doubletop (Mar 25, 2011)

Murray

Bogies have arrived from oneinch railroad and are now installed, the well tank, battery box, pump, switch, piping are all installed. It all just needs wring up (today's job). I'm going to look into the cycle computer install as well.

Other than that its ready to go but tomorrow looks like a non starter weather wise.

Pete


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## doubletop (Apr 27, 2011)

One minor tweak to the loco. To the plans, the bypass valve for the water pump located on the front of the right hand tank.







The when the bypass is open it provides a path of least resistance to water from the pump on the crosshead so the water goes back into the water tank. When the valve is closed the pump pressure can open the boiler clack and water is pushed into the boiler. So the valve connection to the tank is the bleed back to the tank and not the feed to the pump (if you follow?)

Its a real PITA, especially when the time you need to operate it there's probably plenty else going on and you have to lean forward and grope around trying to adjust it. All the recommendations are to move it into the cab, so today I set about it and removed the tanks and cab (again) and rerouted the pipework through the tank, into the cab and then back into the tank. 

There is a space in the cab to the right of the boiler which is ideal for this.






So here it is all done. It would be ideal to have a right angled valve but I reused what I have hence the loop of pipe.






For now I even reused the original pipework at the front of the tank rather than make new so I just included a replacement piece for the old valve.







That's the latest

Pete


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## imagineering (Apr 27, 2011)

Time you re-joined the workforce again Pete
.


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## doubletop (Apr 27, 2011)

imagineering  said:
			
		

> Time you re-joined the workforce again Pete
> .



Yes but this is more fun

Pete


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## imagineering (Apr 27, 2011)

doubletop  said:
			
		

> Yes but this is more fun
> 
> Pete



Know what you mean, it's the only thing keeping me sane at the moment.

Murray


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## doubletop (Jul 26, 2017)

Photos updated to fix the Photobucket fiasco

Pete


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