# Fusion 360 replacement



## chucketn (Mar 23, 2020)

Since the powers that be have seen fit to loose all my projects(at least I can't find them since the "Team" update), what is a free cad system that one can learn easily. My only successful experience with CAD has been with Fusion. It worked fine for a couple years, even got through the Gui update. Now all my work is gone... Even stuff I designed over the last few days...


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## XD351 (Mar 23, 2020)

I had the same problem ! 
All is not lost  i got mine back but it took a good part of an hour of stuffing around and in the end i fluked it i think .
I was fiddling around with some of the icons at the top of the left panel where your work is usually displayed and found if i clicked one of these my work would reappear then disappear again   almost instantly - leaving the panel empty again - this frustrated me to the point where i was contemplating  gutting the computer .  Damned if i can remember what i did but they eventually returned , i think fusion has just removed the link between this panel and the folder where your work is really stored so try in there and i think as you open each file they return to the panel where they used to be . I know that when they did return they were ghosted and i had to open each one to get them back to their previous state .
I have no used for this stupid team thing and it is forced upon you by this stupid pop up message that keeps appearing [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35].
If this didn’t work i aways have a back up set on my pc in a folder that is seperate to any fusion files so i can call on them if Fusion gets wiped .


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## tjwal (Mar 23, 2020)

Maybe this will work
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-support/opt-out-of-fusion-team/td-p/9389665


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## chucketn (Mar 24, 2020)

Found my stuff under the 'Team' I created. I hate change for the sake of change...


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## awake (Mar 24, 2020)

If at some point you really want to go with something else, you might take a look at FreeCAD; it is free and open source. It has a learning curve, and it is also not quite as capable as Fusion 360 - but it keeps catching up rapidly. If someone had tried it, say, two years ago or more, he or she ought to give it another whirl now - it is improving that fast.


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## Apprentice707 (Mar 28, 2020)

I tried Freecad and couldn't wrap my head around it. I had the same problem with Fusion360 as others seem to have had, but got a message telling me to sign in which I did and my files came back. No idea where they went.


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## awake (Mar 28, 2020)

As I said, there is a learning curve! 

Well, I suppose there is a learning curve with Fusion 360 as well, but as best I can tell it is steeper with FreeCAD. Once you begin to get the hang of it, though, it generally works well. As I alluded to above, one thing to be aware of is that FreeCAD is on a rapid development curve, so features that are missing today may well be in place before the year is out - actually, probably are already in place if you want to try the "development" version, but I generally stay with the "stable" version.


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## bikr7549 (Mar 28, 2020)

I have been using Onshape for a while and really like it. There is a series of articles in lastest Home Shop Machinist on learning to use it.


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## kquiggle (Mar 29, 2020)

I've been using OnShape for a while now and I can recommend it. OnShape also offers (also free) a pretty good set of online tutorials for learning how to use it.  I found that after about 10 hours of online instruction I was able to do something useful with it, but it took perhaps another 30 hour hours of use for me to get comfortable with it, and I'm still learning. I have been using OnShape together with my Prusa Mk3/S 3D printer and find it works well for creating STL files (see some of my work here: PrusaPrinters).

In addition to use with 3D printing, I use OnShape to create 2D plans for other machining work. For some of the work I have done, OnShape is over-kill, but using it to create plans is a good way to get some practice in. For me anyway, I find practice goes easier if I also working on a personal project.

OnShape doesn't make their free version too easy to find - look here: Free Plan | Onshape

OnShape works in your browser on much pretty any operating system.  This is one of the reasons I chose it, as I use Linux exclusively. Make sure your hardware supports it : Hardware and Graphics Recommendations

Some while ago I did an overview of free CAD software; it's a bit dated now, but here it is anyway:

Free CAD Software - Overview - Academy of Lagado


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## xj35s (Mar 29, 2020)

I was using fusion 360 but when I started working with .STL files the whole brep mesh crap frustrated me. I now use design spark mechanical. You can import an .STL modify it and export it to Cura or .STL file to save. The usage is almost identical to fusion but many things are just way easier.


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## kquiggle (Mar 29, 2020)

xj35s: Took a quick look at Design Spark Mechanical; sadly - Windows only.

You raise a good point though. The choice of software to use depends in part on how you plan to use it. IF you want to design parts in 3D and then create STL files then OnShape and similar programs are a good choice. OTOH, if you want to take an existing STL file and modify it, then OnShape is not going to help you much(if at all). 

For working with and modifying STL files, I have had some success with FreeCAD, but this is an area I have only just started exploring.


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## awake (Mar 29, 2020)

Yes, good point - different programs may work better for different tasks. Interestingly, I find that increasingly I do nearly all of my design for 3d printing using OpenSCAD, which is a much more programmatic approach. FreeCAD, Fusion360, and no doubt others pride themselves on being parametric ... but when you REALLY want to be completely parametric, including all sorts of calculations of parameters, OpenSCAD is hard to beat. But it is a totally different way of thinking than Fusion/FreeCAD/etc.


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## kquiggle (Mar 29, 2020)

OnShape has a programming language. I've only had a quick look at it, but it appears to be pretty powerful. You can use it, for example, to create custom functions like drafting gears.


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## awake (Mar 29, 2020)

Sounds interesting. FreeCAD allows one to program in Python, but I haven't done more than just a teeny bit of experimenting with that, for the sake of an animation.


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## kquiggle (Mar 29, 2020)

OnShape calls it FeatureScript - here's a link for anyone interested.






						FeatureScript introduction
					






					cad.onshape.com
				




Here's the blurb:

"FeatureScript is a new programming language designed by Onshape for building and working with 3D parametric models. The language is built into Onshape from the ground up, providing the foundation of Part Studio modeling, including robust geometric references, powerful parametric tools, and a type system with types built for math in three dimensions.

The standard feature types in Onshape (like Extrude, Fillet, and Helix) are already written as FeatureScript functions by our developers. Custom feature types extend this same mechanism to all users of Onshape.

FeatureScript can be added to any new or existing Onshape document by creating a Feature Studio."


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## awake (Mar 30, 2020)

That sounds very much like FreeCAD's Python interface.

Isn't OnShape cloud-based? If so, I wonder how the scripting is actually run; is it running on the local machine, directing the cloud-based program to do various steps, or does it actually run on the remote machine??

Interesting ...


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## kquiggle (Mar 30, 2020)

awake - I think it is a combination of both local and cloud. Although it is browser based, you need to have decent graphics hardware to use it, so it is clearly offloading a lot (all?) of the processing work to your gpu. And of course you need to have a halfway decent Internet connection. All of your work is stored in the cloud (but you can export STL files and other file formats). 

The downside of the free version is that all of your files must be public (meaning anyone can see your work, and other OnShape users can make copies). You can also allow other OnShape users to edit, so it is a good tool for collaboration projects. 

I am very far from being an expert in 3D CAD, but my amateur impression is that Fusion 360 has some capabilities that are still lacking in OnShape, although OnShape is quickly catching up. Fusion 360 is not an option for me since it doesn't run on Linux.


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## awake (Mar 30, 2020)

Likewise, I run Linux pretty much exclusively. I do have a VM with a Windows installation to handle occasional things that just absolutely have to be done on Windows, mostly to coordinate with my institution. But I detest Windows even more every time I have to use it, so definitely not going the Fusion360 route.  Meanwhile, my home internet is not entirely reliable, so even semi-cloud-based is not a good option for me.


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## kstrauss (Mar 30, 2020)

Onshape is interesting but my ultimate goal is to generate gcode to control my Tormach CNC to make 2.5D and 3D pieces. Mecsoft offers a free CAM for Onshape that seems somewhat limited. Is there any CAM, hopefully free, that works with Onshape and will let me generate HSM toolpaths, peck drilling, hopefully 4th axis, etc?


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## kquiggle (Mar 31, 2020)

kstrauss  - there are a lot of 3rd party apps available (mostly not free, I think) but I have not really explored that area. Look here :






						App Store - Onshape
					

With Onshape's App Store, modern CAD users can choose to add specialty engineering software such as simulation, CAM, or rendering to their cloud workspace




					appstore.onshape.com
				




They are also online forums you could explore and put your question to people who know way more about OnShape than me.









						Onshape Forums
					

Onshape is the only product development platform that unites CAD, data management, collaboration tools and real-time analytics.




					forum.onshape.com


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## awake (Mar 31, 2020)

I am not sure if this will be helpful, since the only CNC I have done to date is 3d printing - a very different process, to be sure. But as I have thought about a CNC router or mill, I have come across various programs that take the output of a CAD program (.stl file, .dxf file, etc.) and generate the gcode. Here is a post that helpfully gathers together a variety of such programs:


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## kstrauss (Mar 31, 2020)

Thanks for the link to the Onshape app store. Most of the products listed assume that you have a CAM package and just need to link it to Onshape. The only actual CAM product listed appears to be VisualCAMc for $99/month. As a hobbyist that is far out of my price range. I keep hoping...


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## RM-MN (Apr 1, 2020)

Onshape claims to export in industry standard formats.  Most CAM packages can then import these and turn out a tool path gcode.  I'm new at it but I suspect that if the project was not too complicated I could import the file to FreeCAD and run it through the PATH workbench to produce gcode for machining as well as running it through the MESH workbench to produce code for 3D printing.


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## kquiggle (Apr 1, 2020)

OnShape will export directly to STL format. I routinely use it to create 3D items which I export to STL and then turn into gcode with PrusaSlicer.  I also use OnShape to create 2D drawings (by first modeling in 3D of course).

I probably sound a bit like an OnShape fan-boy with all these posts, so I should note that my experience with hands-on 3D CAD is limited to my use of OnShape. Based on that very limited experience, here are my impressions:

OnShape is a fairly new but rapidly developing platform
OnShape appears to have all the basics, but does not include some things available in other platforms (like automatic bevel gear generation - although it does do spur gears).
The OnShape target market is multi-user collaborative corporate. Translation - there's a lot of stuff in it that a hobbyist will never use.
OnShape follows a well known path: You can get a lot of stuff for free, but eventually you may come to a pay-wall.
There is also this concern: OnShape could pull the plug on it's free offering at any time.


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## comstock-friend (Apr 1, 2020)

I'm staying with F360 for now. I'd still rather draft in AutoCAD, but I need the tool pathing and nc post capability for my Tormach PCNC 1100. Yesterday some things started making sense and today I hope to make some chips!


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## mfrick (Apr 1, 2020)

So I have tried Onshape and then you need a program that will post the file to G code so now you have two programs to do a single job.  I have been using SurfCam since 1999 and it has served me will, the down side is the price of the yearly subscription which I offset by doing some jobs to help pay for it. They have a great support system, nice thing about it is you can draw your part and generate G code all in one program.
Mike


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## crec (Apr 1, 2020)

I use Onshape pretty heavily with the high school robotics team I teach. It is powerful parametric modelling package. They have good tutorials that walk you through the steps of creating sketches, 3d models, and 3d assemblies. The tutorials also show you how to make drawings and bills of materials from the models. It is completely online and cloud based so a good internet connection is a plus. The nice thing for my students is that they can work from pretty much any platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, or even tablets) if they like. It does not download any software to your machine as it works completely online. That is why it works on any platform. It can be laggy if your connection is not great though. You can export data to be used in other software, like CAM packages, or 3d printer slicing programs.

The kids can also all work on the same model or drawing at the same time. It has version control so I can maintain version points that allow me to "rollback" the drawing/model if it gets completely messed up. 

There is a free CAM package for Onshape called Kirimoto. I have not used it much as we have kids that like Fusion360 as well and the CAM package in Fusion360 works very well. Also we have already established tool libraries for our CNC machines in Fusion.


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## shorton (Apr 2, 2020)

I’ve used Cambam now for several years. Also with a HS robotics team. Not free but not expensive either. I need to check out Onshape.


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## kquiggle (Apr 2, 2020)

mfrick - You are right that a second program is needed to turn an OnShape STL file into gcode.  The advantages of being able to generate gcode directly are obvious, but there are also benefits to using a second program.  Software like PrusaSlicer and Cura are free, and are optimized for use with 3D printers. Since I have a Prusa3D printer, I primarily use PrusaSlicer because it has a lot or presets to optimize it for my particular printer. Although in theory you can run a gcode file on any printer,  in practice (as I am learning) it is better to tune the gcode to match your printers characteristics, as well as to adjust for nozzle diameter, layer height, and so on.  If I could do all of that in OnShape it would be nice, but I don't think it would save me much work.

My work flow now is:

Design in OnShape
Export to STL
Import STL to PrusaSlicer to generate gcode
Run gcode to print part
Find all my mistakes!
Lather, rinse, repeat
There also appears to be a new format emerging as an improvement to gcode - 3mf.  The 3mf format is like gcode on steroids; it incorporates the gcode but also adds other data. More on 3mf here : 3D Manufacturing Format - Wikipedia


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## Muzzer (Apr 2, 2020)

BTW, if you really can't overcome your hatred of Windows, you can run Fusion 360 in Apple OSX. That assumes you don't a similar hatred of OSX of course!

Onshape was in public beta testing way before Fusion hit the scene (I was involved with it at that stage) but as noted, you have to pay full professional pricing for any meaningful add-on and your work is publicly visible. They must have been really p155ed off when the Fusion pricing model was unveiled.... 

I really can't imagine how you object to what Fusion offers you - everything from full 3D CAD, through sheet metal, surface modelling, FE and modal analysis, full simultaneous multi-axis CAM, 3D printer slicing, 2D drawings etc etc. It's now very well sorted and most features you'd ever need are implemented. The technical support is very solid and comprehensive. It's used by some serious professionals (check out Peter Stanton for instance), so is clearly very dependable. And above all, it's absolutely free and unrestricted for hobby users like us. Is it just me?

You can create your work in Fusion and output it directly to your 3D printer. If you need to go back and change anything, you can do that by simply switching from the manufacture menu to the design menu. No need to be exporting work between programs as STLs and all that palaver. But that might take all the fun out of it!


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## awake (Apr 2, 2020)

Muzzer said:


> BTW, if you really can't overcome your hatred of Windows, you can run Fusion 360 in Apple OSX. That assumes you don't a similar hatred of OSX of course!
> 
> Onshape was in public beta testing way before Fusion hit the scene (I was involved with it at that stage) but as noted, you have to pay full professional pricing for any meaningful add-on and your work is publicly visible. They must have been really p155ed off when the Fusion pricing model was unveiled....
> 
> ...



Muzzer, I'm not sure to which of us this comment is directed, but note that a couple of us have reported using Linux exclusively, so an OSX version doesn't help. Note also that many of us have commented on the advantages of Fusion 360, even if we don't or can't access it on our machines. So, I fully agree with all you say about Fusion 360 ... but unfortunately it doesn't do me a bit of good!


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## Muzzer (Apr 2, 2020)

awake said:


> Muzzer, I'm not sure to which of us this comment is directed, but note that a couple of us have reported using Linux exclusively, so an OSX version doesn't help. Note also that many of us have commented on the advantages of Fusion 360, even if we don't or can't access it on our machines. So, I fully agree with all you say about Fusion 360 ... but unfortunately it doesn't do me a bit of good!


It was nothing personal. As a professional engineer, I try to choose the best tools for the job, regardless of the brand, be that Windows, Linux or OSX. I can't understand why anyone would refuse to use a particular brand. I know, I know, there's no law against it!


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## awake (Apr 2, 2020)

I hear you. I was, once upon a time, a computer consultant and software developer, so it is not that I can't make use of Windows or Mac. Rather, for me, Linux has proven the best tool for my all-purpose use. I do use Windows when I have to, and I am regularly called on by co-workers and family to help figure out a problem in their Windows or Mac systems. Every time I do, I am reminded again why I prefer Linux.  But this is a personal preference, and probably not something we need to belabor in this forum ....


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## bdrmachine (Apr 2, 2020)

I'm stuck between two worlds, Linux and Windows.  It would be nice if someone would try to port fusion on Linux through Wine.  I have seen many Windows apps work with Wine.  All in all, I LOVE fusion 360.  Where else can you get unlimited free phone support on any software package?


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## awake (Apr 3, 2020)

I have to confess that I hardly ever use Wine these days. (To be clear: we are not talking about the adult beverage; we are talking about the software that can allow many Windows programs to run on Linux. ) Generally either I have an adequate-or-better Linux program to use in place of the Windows program, or the Windows program is so specific to Windows that it won't run under Wine. So, my solution has been VirtualBox to set up a virtual Windows machine. VirtualBox has worked really well for me, and can make the Windows VM operate seamlessly. I set up multiple workspaces, and when needed I park the VM in one of those, and can switch back and forth easily.

On edit: I suppose I should note that there are really only two reasons I use Windows / the VM - one is for a particular piece of discipline-specific software that is simply not available except on Windows, and won't run under Wine. The other is when I have to coordinate documents with other parts of the university where I teach, where they use MS Office. I can open and edit Office documents just fine using LibreOffice, but when the formatting begins to get complicated, using Styles and Outlines and such, then neither program can perfectly handle what the other does.


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## ianjkirby (Apr 10, 2020)

This is a very extensive list, but I am a little surprised that no mention was made of the products available at www.punchcad.com   There is a range of products, variously priced, to suit a range of outputs.  I have used ViaCAD 2D3D for several years, and found it reasonably quick to learn, and very suitable for my modek engineeering requirements.  It costs roughly $100, and includes free upgrades within a version.  New versions are reduced in cost for previous purchasers.  It is not as powerful as Fusion, but imo is a great intro to useful 3D modelling.


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## SpringHollow (Apr 11, 2020)

I have just started learning Fusion 360 and it is exactly what I have been looking for in a 3D CAD program.  Very easy to learn and one can design parametrically just like I did many years ago.  This program is much easier to use than Vectorworks but that software is geared more towards architects and has some great features for that type of work.


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## BillH (Apr 20, 2020)

If you join the Experimental Aircraft Association, they give you the student edition of Solidworks each year, latest and greatest. Absolute steal for 30$ or what ever it costs a year to be a member.


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## nealeb (Apr 21, 2020)

It's interesting that people seem to fall very much into one of two camps - either it's really easy and straightforward, or it's weird, counter-intuitive, and nothing like anything I've used before. I've run a few intro to F360 sessions for fellow club members and probably the most common issue is that people bring with them a whole lot of learning and experience from a completely different tool! If someone has been banging nails in with a hammer all their life, that's not a whole lot of good if you give them a screwdriver and a bag of screws! It's actually easier with someone who has no draughting experience at all because the "unlearn" cycle isn't needed. The ability to spend a week of evenings sitting at a PC developing a design, realising that you made a mistake with one dimension right at the start, so you go back and change just that one dimension and everything that depended on it is automatically updated is magic. I used to use TurboCAD 2D and editing a mistake was a nightmare; more often than not I would scrap the drawing and start again. Never did work out how to use TurboCAD 3D. But today I can throw together a full 3D model at least as fast as preparing 2D drawings with TC, with the bonus that I can get full 2D drawings (any orientation) plus isometric views at the click of a button (if I'm going to machine manually) or toolpaths to take to the CNC with little effort. You have to understand a few principles that F360 uses and these aren't always intuitive. But so logical once you have found them...

Haven't used Solidworks although I would like to take a look just to see the differences - but there's that little barrier to entry measured in £/$! I started with Onshape myself but quickly switched to F360 as it became available as it was so much more powerful wih the benefit of built-in CAM.


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## L98fiero (Apr 21, 2020)

nealeb said:


> I used to use TurboCAD 2D and editing a mistake was a nightmare; more often than not I would scrap the drawing and start again. Never did work out how to use TurboCAD 3D.


That's funny, I was in the same boat, used TurboCAD for 2D for decades and never figured out their 3D but found Solidworks and other 3D packages super easy to learn.


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## stanstocker (Apr 22, 2020)

I saw mention of the high cost for Solidworks.  If you join the Experimental Aircraft Association for $40/yr the educational version is included.  The educational version is said to be the complete package.  One site reporting it added watermarks and could not be used for commercial purposes.  It was also said that the student / educational version is the previous years version or the previous release.  Can't verify any of this as I'm neither in EAA nor a Solidworks user, can't say the deal with remain in place forever, but some might find it interesting.


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## lemelman (Apr 22, 2020)

My first CAD system was a DOS program called EasyCad. It came on a single floppy disk, was strictly 2D, and a welcome 'upgrade' from paper and drawing instruments. Dimensioning worked but was very crude. Then TurboCAD came out. It was still 2D and, at first I didn't like it, but I persevered when I discovered that associative dimensioning was a step forward over EasyCad. Eventually it was upgraded to 3D and actually worked reasonably well. But editing a drawing or a model was often so messy that, as *nealeb *said, it was usually best to start over.
A friend had an old copy of SolidWorks which I coveted, but the price put it well beyond my reach. 
Then I heard about Fusion 360. I downloaded it and tried the first tutorial. I was baffled. I watched a few YouTube videos from NYC-CNC and Lars Christensen and decided to venture on to proper project. I stumbled a lot but eventually got to the stage of thinking in the F360 manner rather than in the 2.5D of TurboCAD. For quick 'back of envelope' things, I turn to TurboCAD, but for a proper 3D model there is no beating F360. The steep learning curve is certainly worth the effort.


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## kaolsen1728 (Apr 22, 2020)

My first Cad program I used was 2d Grafix Cad. I still have an old laptop that I can run it on (windows 95). However, I moved up to Turbo Cad and have used it now for over 15 years. I will admit that the learning curve was tough! Especially back then we did not have U-Tube. However, I keep at it and I use it for all of my home shop projects as well as creating drawings for 3d printing. I do upgrade it every year so I do have the latest options. The 2020 version will have animation capabilities.


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## Shopgeezer (Apr 22, 2020)

“Easy to learn” should be banned from the English language. Nuclear Physics is easy to learn too, for some people. It depends on your background and ability. I find Fusion 360 impossible to understand.  Same with Nuclear Physics. 

Can anyone explain the difference between Fusion 360 and Inventor?


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## scoopydo (Apr 23, 2020)

I recently joined the EAA to get Solidworks. I was able to download the Educational version for 2019-2020. It includes everything that a standard version has including SolidCAM. I much prefer Solidworks over Fusion360 because none of your work is on a cloud somewhere. You can also get HSMWorks, the same CAM that's in Inventor and Fusion for a free download from AutoDesk.


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## nealeb (Apr 23, 2020)

scoopydo said:


> I much prefer Solidworks over Fusion360 because none of your work is on a cloud somewhere.


I appreciate that for some people the whole "cloud" thing is a problem - for example, if you are dealing with proprietary information - but if you have used both SW and F360, could you possibly comment how similar/different they are to use? Remarks about SW are usually (apart from cost!) favourable while F360 gets a bad press re usability for a beginner. I accept that when I started using F360 I found that it needed me to approach the whole CAD business differently - it was like thinking at 90deg to normal - but I wonder if it is the same for SW? Perhaps it's because SW users tend to come from a professional background while F360 home users are often self-trained?


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## David Shealey (Apr 23, 2020)

I used CAD professionally since the early '80's.  Many years on the drafting board prior to that.  First CAD was Intergraph, Expensive, ran on VAX computer, and was pretty much a glorified 2D drafting system, but quite an advancement on the pencil methods.  Then a short time on CADAM, boy was that a mind boggling experience, hated it.  The best step forward was Anvil 1000MD, a 2D mechanical design package that was absolutely great!  If you had learned drafting on the board, this one was far and above the easiest to use, and did things just how you expected! (It is still available!). After using Anvil 1000 for a few years at three different companies, I had to learn Autocad.  8>(  hated it a the start, it was far less intuitive than Anvil, which did things even an expert hired to help us transition from Anvil could not accomplish in Autocad.  After two years, still hated Autocad.  Next step forward was moving to 3D modeling, with Solid Edge. Grew to love it.  Then I moved to another company using Inventor, learned it pretty quickly and grew to like it.  After 6 years of Inventor, had to learn SolidWorks.  Used that for about 3 years, and have it at home now since retiring, but would still take Inventor over Solidworks in a heartbeat!  Inventor does many things well that Solidworks does not.  I had a two page list of things I liked in Inventor far better than Solidworks, we had a Solidworks expert come in and help us, he was only able to show us how to do about half my list, some of it took more clicks and picks, but about half my list just cannot be done well in Solidworks. Some of it is pretty ridiculous that Solidworks has not seen the light.  However, Inventor has gone to a subscription only mode, very expensive, and it you do not continue the subscription, all your work is pretty useless! When the subscription runs out, that is it!  They no longer have any permanent licenses.  8>)  My 2017 Solidworks still works great, and should continue to do so.
\


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## johnmcc69 (Apr 23, 2020)

David, I would like to see your list of "things" you mentioned that you would like.

 John


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## David Shealey (Apr 24, 2020)

When I retired, I think I left the list in my desk.  I thought I had it at home, but cannot find it.  A lot of it was simple things that are easier/faster/better in Inventor. One that I used daily was projecting (converting) planes  and axes to a sketch.  Solidworks does not do it. 8>(  I wish I had my list, there were a lot of simple things, some more involved.  I also used the design functions in Inventor a lot, such as gears, splines, chain drives, bearings, etc..  Solidworks has no equal, requires finding third party add ins.


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## Charles Lamont (Apr 24, 2020)

Shopgeezer said:


> “Easy to learn” should be banned from the English language. Nuclear Physics is easy to learn too, for some people. It depends on your background and ability. I find Fusion 360 impossible to understand.  Same with Nuclear Physics.
> 
> Can anyone explain the difference between Fusion 360 and Inventor?


I think the Onshape interface is cleaner and easier to understand, but the basic principles are the same. The official tutorial material, help, and forum are good.


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## Rob123456 (Apr 24, 2020)

Fusion 360 is working for me but I did lose a lot of hair learning how to use it and even now know there is more to learn. The other software talked about here is either old or costly so my choice is Fusion 360 as I am a hobby engineer and if it was not free I would not have cad/cam software and have been pasting on what I have learnt to others who are now professionals so Fusion does win in the end.


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## SpringHollow (Apr 24, 2020)

I used Arnold Rowntree's tutorials for Fusion 360 - he shows you every step and is easy to follow.  Within an hour, I could create parts that I needed to make.









						Arnold Rowntree
					






					www.youtube.com


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## RM-MN (Apr 25, 2020)

SpringHollow, nice idea to post tutorials.  I would never have gotten started in CAD without the tutorials and FreeCAD was another nightmare until I started with tutorials on that.  My favorite series of tutorials were from Lars Christensen.

Lars Christensen on Fusion 360


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## Jules (Apr 26, 2020)

Shopgeezer said:


> “Easy to learn” should be banned from the English language. Nuclear Physics is easy to learn too, for some people. It depends on your background and ability. I find Fusion 360 impossible to understand.  Same with Nuclear Physics.
> 
> Can anyone explain the difference between Fusion 360 and Inventor?


At what level do you find fusion impossible to understand?
I can create most shapes I want but struggle with making assemblies. 
There are many tutorials but often they forget to explain the basics.


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## tjwal (Apr 26, 2020)

I modeled a finger brake in fusion.  I just wanted it to fit together and didn’t try to model movements.  It was quite easy compared to Inventor.  It was also a worthwhile exercise as the written instructions and diagrams weren’t always clear.


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## comstock-friend (Apr 26, 2020)

I'm here to tell you Fusion 360 works. I would have no way to make this part without it. I had a student copy of MasterCam years ago while playing at the local JC, but I ran the machine (a Haas VF3) and didn't do much 3D drawing as I spent all my daytime on a computer at work as an engineer. Got very good at AutoCad but that's not available after retirement, so Fusion seemed like the way to go. I have to feed a Tormach with programs and this is the way for me.

John

(The funky screws are just to hold everything up until I get on the lathe to make a bunch of 10-32 and 8-32 studs!)


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## DickF (Apr 27, 2020)

I’ve been using F360 for some time now. At first I designed using the “bottom up” method ( each part designed individually and then brought into an assembly file defining each joint and position as I added them). A very time consuming method.
I have now switched to the “top down method”(each part is designed in situ under a main component) Virtually all joints can be set as “as built”. Sketches or parts of sketches can be used in any component meaning relationships are defined allowing a change to be instigated in all dependant parts by simply changing one sketch, etc.
Here are a couple of screenshots from a steam engine I have recently modelled.


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## awake (Apr 27, 2020)

DickF, welcome to the forum! I'm not sure if it is a matter of format for videos - my suspicion is that it has to do with limits on file size (10Mb or so seems to be the limit). Most people upload the video to YouTube or something similar and post the link here.


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## DickF (Apr 27, 2020)

Thanks for the welcome awake. When I try and upload from my iPhone no videos are available, so not even small ones can be picked. I’ve never uploaded to YouTube, but if that‘s the way I’ll take a look.

Edit: Problem solved. Uploaded to YouTube and added link.


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## DickF (Apr 27, 2020)

Video worked .... enjoy
Edit: Video link has been moved into my original post. Sorry for any inconvenience


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## lemelman (Apr 28, 2020)

I can see neither a video nor a link.


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## DickF (Apr 28, 2020)

lemelman said:


> I can see neither a video nor a link.


The video appears in my original post. I moved it up to there after I finally sorted out how to post a video. Sorry for any inconvenience


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## awake (Apr 28, 2020)

That worked! Nice animation.


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## DickF (Apr 28, 2020)

awake said:


> That worked! Nice animation.


Thanks


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## Richard Hed (May 15, 2020)

XD351 said:


> I had the same problem !
> All is not lost  i got mine back but it took a good part of an hour of stuffing around and in the end i fluked it i think .
> I was fiddling around with some of the icons at the top of the left panel where your work is usually displayed and found if i clicked one of these my work would reappear then disappear again   almost instantly - leaving the panel empty again - this frustrated me to the point where i was contemplating  gutting the computer .  Damned if i can remember what i did but they eventually returned , i think fusion has just removed the link between this panel and the folder where your work is really stored so try in there and i think as you open each file they return to the panel where they used to be . I know that when they did return they were ghosted and i had to open each one to get them back to their previous state .
> I have no used for this stupid team thing and it is forced upon you by this stupid pop up message that keeps appearing [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35].
> If this didn’t work i aways have a back up set on my pc in a folder that is seperate to any fusion files so i can call on them if Fusion gets wiped .


Ever since windos 95 (absolute crap of course) I have kept MULTIPLE back ups, one on CD.  You must not trust any single media with your stuff.  What is this "team" stuff--is it an effort to put your stuff in the "cloud"?  I will not put my stuff in the "cloud"--I GUARANTEE! it will some day be "stolen" by persons unknown, or "lost" by some unknown method.  Your intellecdtual property is too valuable to allow someone else to "protect" it for you.  Yeah, protect it for you like a banker protects your house when the market crashes.


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## Richard Hed (May 15, 2020)

awake said:


> As I said, there is a learning curve!
> 
> Well, I suppose there is a learning curve with Fusion 360 as well, but as best I can tell it is steeper with FreeCAD. Once you begin to get the hang of it, though, it generally works well. As I alluded to above, one thing to be aware of is that FreeCAD is on a rapid development curve, so features that are missing today may well be in place before the year is out - actually, probably are already in place if you want to try the "development" version, but I generally stay with the "stable" version.


I use all kinds of CADs but my son got Fusion and I didn't have the patience to try to get it.  Actually, it might have been that the info was stored "in the cloud" which I will not do under any circumstances.  No way!  It goes on MY storage media or not at all.  that cloud crap is just an invitation for intellecdtual theft--do you thimk for a moment that the owners of the "cloud" media don't have the ability to hack it?  If YOU had a computer that one of your friends saved information on, do yuou thimk you could hack it?  Well you could.


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## johnmcc69 (May 15, 2020)

It's all a bloody mess.
 You spend hours & hours trying to learn new software (insert your favorite here), than, the next version comes out (& sometimes won t open the old files you've created). 
 This is how the world turns..
 Companies (mainly the LARGE ones, pay large (extortion?) Fees to run their software.
 I appreciate what some companies due to promote their software, but it only lasts awhile. Draftsight, other online the other ones...
 Only a matter of time before Fusion 360 Ford this route. Maybe not now, but when the hammer drops & you can't open your files, what will you do?


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## Richard Hed (May 15, 2020)

Shopgeezer said:


> “Easy to learn” should be banned from the English language. Nuclear Physics is easy to learn too, for some people. It depends on your background and ability. I find Fusion 360 impossible to understand.  Same with Nuclear Physics.
> 
> Can anyone explain the difference between Fusion 360 and Inventor?


I can explain Nuclear Fusion but not Fusion 360--does that help?


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## johnmcc69 (May 15, 2020)

"Can anyone explain the difference between Fusion 360 and Inventor?"
 How much money do you have to spend?
 AutoDesk (as most) has a large customer base that pay the "permissions" of using their software. As long as you pay "maintenance" fees every year, you will receive the latest "updates" (program files for things they should have got right the first time).
 Inventor will make you part of the "in crowd" & get the benefits described above.

 But don't take my word for it, check out what they have to offer, compare Soliworks, Pro-E, inventor, 360, Solidedge..

 Tell them you're interested in it for "hobby use" & let me know how quickly they respond to you.


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## lemelman (May 16, 2020)

johnmcc69 said:


> "AutoDesk (as most) has a large customer base that pay the "permissions" of using their software. As long as you pay "maintenance" fees every year, you will receive the latest "updates" (program files for things they should have got right the first time).
> Inventor will make you part of the "in crowd" & get the benefits described above.
> 
> But don't take my word for it, check out what they have to offer, compare Soliworks, Pro-E, inventor, 360, Solidedge..
> ...


Personally, I'm a fan of *Fusion 360*, but there is a version of *SolidEdge 3D* that is free for hobbyists, it's called *SolidEdge Community Edition* and can be downloaded from ***HERE***


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## xpylonracer (May 16, 2020)

*SolidEdge Community Edition* is reported to be the bees knees by some UK users, but if it does follow the same route as Draftsight did you will still retain any files completed so all is not lost.

xpylonracer


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## CFLBob (May 16, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> I can explain Nuclear Fusion but not Fusion 360


That's quote of the day or week or something material right there!


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## awake (May 16, 2020)

Well, I can top that. I am full of con-fusion. Surely better than nuclear or 360, right?


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## Richard Hed (May 16, 2020)

awake said:


> Well, I can top that. I am full of con-fusion. Surely better than nuclear or 360, right?


hardy har har, that is really goo


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## Mike Whittome (May 16, 2020)

With what does one remove the GOO ???


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## Richard Hed (May 16, 2020)

Mike Whittome said:


> With what does one remove the GOO ???


goo is a ridiculous way to use "good" in a way that matches "con-fusion".  the guys comment made me laugh.  Like, what a wit to me you are.  Just take the con out of the goo and you have "good'


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## firebird (May 17, 2020)

Hi
Not sure if this will be of any use. I was a user and fan of Coreldraw for years. I owned a legit copy that I was happy with, it did every thing I needed. After years of happily using Windows XP my old computer died. I invested in a new all singing and dancing PC that came with windows 10 pre installed. Great bit of kit but guess what, the Coreldraw version I have doesn't work on windows 10!!!!! I contacted Coreldraw who said that as an existing user they could upgrade me to a new version at the special offer price of £600!!! Shove it. Unfortunately the new version won't open the old files (which are all saved in Coreldraws own format) so I have years of work that I can't get at. To get round the problem  I now have an old computer in my workshop which runs on XP which is great I can now open all my old files. Not very convenient on a winters night when I want to sit in the comfort of my home and do a bit of drawing. To get to the point I came across a programme called Inkscape. Its a free download and is open source, has no restrictions and so far with my limited computer skills I have managed to do a few drawings. Takes a bit of learning, things are not where you think they are but there of loads of videos and tutorials out there.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Rich


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## Peter Murphy (May 17, 2020)

firebird said:


> Hi
> Not sure if this will be of any use. I was a user and fan of Coreldraw for years. I owned a legit copy that I was happy with, it did every thing I needed. After years of happily using Windows XP my old computer died. I invested in a new all singing and dancing PC that came with windows 10 pre installed. Great bit of kit but guess what, the Coreldraw version I have doesn't work on windows 10!!!!! I contacted Coreldraw who said that as an existing user they could upgrade me to a new version at the special offer price of £600!!! Shove it. Unfortunately the new version won't open the old files (which are all saved in Coreldraws own format) so I have years of work that I can't get at. To get round the problem  I now have an old computer in my workshop which runs on XP which is great I can now open all my old files. Not very convenient on a winters night when I want to sit in the comfort of my home and do a bit of drawing. To get to the point I came across a programme called Inkscape. Its a free download and is open source, has no restrictions and so far with my limited computer skills I have managed to do a few drawings. Takes a bit of learning, things are not where you think they are but there of loads of videos and tutorials out there.
> 
> Hope this helps
> ...


Hi Rich, Where abouts are you, I am a PC Tech of 30 years, have a few old Win XP machines still kicking around you could have. If not I am sure somebody local to you has one they don't want. Check Facebook Marketplace. At least you could still read your files maybe even convert them to something current. Cheers Peter


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## awake (May 17, 2020)

Rich, I wonder if LibreDraw would open your old CorelDraw files? I think there is some relationship - maybe - between the LibreOffice suite and some of the older Corel software. Maybe. Large grain of salt time, but ... maybe.

In any case, LibreOffice is free and open source, so it won't hurt to download it and see!

On edit: a little Google searching indicates that both LibreDraw and Inkscape can open .cdr (CorelDraw) files. Both of these are free & open source vector graphics programs. I use Inkscape and find it does everything I need, and more.

Interestingly, the Google search also indicated that GIMP can open .cdr files. GIMP is not a vector graphics program; it operates on the bitmap / pixels - think Photoshop instead of Illustrator. So presumably what you would get would be a bitmap version of your drawing.

If you would rather not download programs just to try, PM me - I have all of these programs.* If you want to send a file or two to me via email, I can see how well any of these actually work with .cdr files.

*Caveat: I never really use LibreDraw, just because Inkscape is so good, but it comes with the LIbreOffice package, of which I use the rest. I do use GIMP and Inkscape fairly often.


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## Nibby2226 (May 17, 2020)

lemelman said:


> Personally, I'm a fan of *Fusion 360*, but there is a version of *SolidEdge 3D* that is free for hobbyists, it's called *SolidEdge Community Edition* and can be downloaded from ***HERE***


Second that, I like it too.  I use CATIA V5 and 3D Experience at work.  Fusion gives me parametric 3D modelling, simulation and CAM for zero cost.  Worst thing for me was customising the CAM post processor for my home built CNC mill controlled by LinuxCNC


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## xpylonracer (May 17, 2020)

Hi Nibby, you wrote:
_Worst thing for me was customising the CAM post processor for my home built CNC mill controlled by LinuxCNC _

Are you prepared to share the details of the CAM post processor to use with Linux please ?

xpylonracer


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## firebird (May 17, 2020)

Hi

Thanks for the offers guys. Re the Coreldraw files I can use the old XP computer in the workshop to open the old files when needed. I have managed to open them with some other programmes but they are not always 100% successful. I think my main point was that you pay your money to a company only to find that they change things later and want more money. Way of the world I suppose.

Cheers

Rich


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## CFLBob (May 17, 2020)

firebird said:


> I think my main point was that you pay your money to a company only to find that they change things later and want more money.



I've been using Rhino since version 3.  I had bought a cheaper program (TurboCAD) first but I just couldn't get anything done in it.  I didn't think like it wanted.  Rhino was instantly useful for me.  That was easily 10 years ago.  I updated to 5 when that came out, and was still happy with it.  

A couple of years ago, they started on a major update to bring it up to Rev 6.  I'm sure they did more fixes, but 95% of what they talked about was making prettier renderings.  They added a whole new language to draw things.  From what I can tell, not one thing to make it more useful for CAD and nothing for CAM.  

You pay your money, then you pay more when they update the software only to find some things you like or things you used a lot stop working but they added features you don't care about.


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## Nibby2226 (May 17, 2020)

xpylonracer said:


> Hi Nibby, you wrote:
> _Worst thing for me was customising the CAM post processor for my home built CNC mill controlled by LinuxCNC _
> 
> Are you prepared to share the details of the CAM post processor to use with Linux please ?
> ...


Possibly, but my post was derived from the Autodesk EMC post processor, so is very specific to my machine. I used VSC a plugin to debug the post processor and test my edits - this really helped as I'm not familiar with Java script and the Autodesk developer manual was a bit unclear in places - probably me rather than the document.


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## Richard Hed (May 17, 2020)

firebird said:


> Hi
> Not sure if this will be of any use. I was a user and fan of Coreldraw for years. I owned a legit copy that I was happy with, it did every thing I needed. After years of happily using Windows XP my old computer died. I invested in a new all singing and dancing PC that came with windows 10 pre installed. Great bit of kit but guess what, the Coreldraw version I have doesn't work on windows 10!!!!! I contacted Coreldraw who said that as an existing user they could upgrade me to a new version at the special offer price of £600!!! Shove it. Unfortunately the new version won't open the old files (which are all saved in Coreldraws own format) so I have years of work that I can't get at. To get round the problem  I now have an old computer in my workshop which runs on XP which is great I can now open all my old files. Not very convenient on a winters night when I want to sit in the comfort of my home and do a bit of drawing. To get to the point I came across a programme called Inkscape. Its a free download and is open source, has no restrictions and so far with my limited computer skills I have managed to do a few drawings. Takes a bit of learning, things are not where you think they are but there of loads of videos and tutorials out there.
> 
> Hope this helps
> ...


I have similar problems:  Good (even GREAT!) software that won't run on microsux's new versions.  They make new versions just to be making something lest they go out of business.  It is a strangle hold on the customer. I for one, don't want or need a new version of windows.  I have a legit (bought copy) of XP I can use in an emergency but all the new computers come with the latest version installed, which as a buyer, we have no controll over and are forced to pay for somethign we don't want.  All the software makers love that system as they are needed to touch up their versions for huge sums every time a customer's computer goes tits-up.  So, I, like so many others, have moved to LibreOffice, GIMP and other free software.  They may not get it right the first time, but eventually, they workout the bugs.  Libre and GIMP are both GREAT software that do every thing I need in that area.  I am a screen writer as well, but I do not use Libre for that.  There are some semi-free softwares out there that work fine.


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## comstock-friend (May 17, 2020)

Not just software. I had an HP scanner that was fine for what I was using it for. Comes Windows 10 and the scanner no longer works. Ask HP if a Win10 driver was available. No. Interestingly, a third party was selling a driver (for $75!) to allow it to run. Last HP device I'll own...


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## David Hothersall (May 18, 2020)

firebird said:


> Hi
> Not sure if this will be of any use. I was a user and fan of Coreldraw for years. I owned a legit copy that I was happy with, it did every thing I needed. After years of happily using Windows XP my old computer died. I invested in a new all singing and dancing PC that came with windows 10 pre installed. Great bit of kit but guess what, the Coreldraw version I have doesn't work on windows 10!!!!! I contacted Coreldraw who said that as an existing user they could upgrade me to a new version at the special offer price of £600!!! Shove it. Unfortunately the new version won't open the old files (which are all saved in Coreldraws own format) so I have years of work that I can't get at. To get round the problem  I now have an old computer in my workshop which runs on XP which is great I can now open all my old files. Not very convenient on a winters night when I want to sit in the comfort of my home and do a bit of drawing. To get to the point I came across a programme called Inkscape. Its a free download and is open source, has no restrictions and so far with my limited computer skills I have managed to do a few drawings. Takes a bit of learning, things are not where you think they are but there of loads of videos and tutorials out there.
> 
> Hope this helps
> ...




I'm a lurker here but I wonder if this might be of assistance to you in loading/converting your old Coreldraw files. Going to a PDF means you can often import/convert that file using a more recent programme.





__





						CDR to PDF - Convert your CDR to PDF for Free Online
					

Do you want to convert a CDR file to a PDF file ? Don't download software - use Zamzar to convert it for free online. Click to convert your CDR file now.




					www.zamzar.com


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## kquiggle (May 18, 2020)

Since the subject of LibreOffice Draw came up, I'll mention that I used Draw for many years (and still do from time to time) for simple 2D drawings.  Of course it should be noted up front that Draw is not CAD software (and certainly not 3D CAD software), but it is very capable drawing software, and a good way to get familiar with computer assisted drawing. I found that a lot of what I learned using Draw was a big help in eventually learning 3D CAD.  

I wrote a bit more on Draw here:









						Academy of Lagado - CAD using LibreOffice Draw
					

[ You may also be interested in my Brief Overview of Free CAD Software. ] Introduction Let's be frank: The title of this page is a bit misleading, as LibreOffice Draw is not true CAD software. However, Draw is still very useful for a variety of technical and machine drawing tasks. Draw is often




					sites.google.com


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## lemelman (May 19, 2020)

Have you considered installing Win7 as a virtual machine running under Win10? I'm in UK and have just received issue 309 of PCPro magazine which contains a 3 page article about how to do this for free, using a program that can be downloaded from a link supplied in the magazine. Since I don't know your location I have no idea if you're able to get the magazine, sorry.


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## RM-MN (May 19, 2020)

lemelman said:


> Have you considered installing Win7 as a virtual machine running under Win10? I'm in UK and have just received issue 309 of PCPro magazine which contains a 3 page article about how to do this for free, using a program that can be downloaded from a link supplied in the magazine. Since I don't know your location I have no idea if you're able to get the magazine, sorry.


PC Pro offers a digital subscription so it should be available world wide.


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## fabricator (May 19, 2020)

I don't really use it much but I downloaded Fusion 360 for free. They allow individuals who are not using it in a for profit type situation free licenses. I get regular update emails for it also.


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## kquiggle (May 19, 2020)

If you really want to jump through all the hoops just do a search for "Download Windows 7 ISO, Legally and for Free" - and yes, it is legal and free. I actually did this a while back because I needed to test some windows-only software one time. But when it came time to start learning 3D CAD I went with OnShape because it's just a whole lot easier - launches immediately in the browser and I can easily have multiple windows open on multiple monitors. 

Having said that, I think that Fusion 360 is the more mature software compared to OnShape, and has a bit more functionality. But at my level, the differences are inconsequential and not worth the hassle of running another VM. I routinely use VMs to try out complex software so I don't have to worry about messing up my working computer, but every VM has to be maintained with updates, etc. and becomes just another housekeeping chore.

If Fusion 360 was still available in Linux flavor I would probably have given it a try. Since that is no longer an option I took the lower hassle option of going with OnShape, and so far I have not regretted that decision.  At this time, I have been using OnShape for less than a year so I still have much to learn, and I don't think I will be hitting a ceiling any time soon. It took me less than a month to be able to start using the software to do useful things, so it was well worth the time investment.

My conclusion: Pick Fusion 360, OnShape, FreeCAD, or whatever and dive in - you'll learn some useful skills and maybe have some fun doing it.


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## firebird (May 20, 2020)

Hi
Thanks for all the feed back guys

I have tried running it in compatibility mode and under win 7 but no joy. I have several other programmes I use, Myford gear calculator, model engineers utilities etc that are XP only so my workshop computer handles them. 

I think my main point was that these companies who produce drawing/cad programmes seem to think they can dictate to us whenever it suits. For now I am happy to stick with Inkscape for free

Cheers

Rich


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## awake (May 21, 2020)

Rich, Inkscape is a great program, but as you know it is not primarily designed to be a CAD program. Have you tried LibreCAD? It is 2d only, but then again, so is Inkscape. It does require a somewhat different way of thinking than Inkscape, so a bit of a learning curve, but a very capable CAD program.


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## dazz (May 22, 2020)

I use Design Spark Mechanical.
It is free, does 3D and outputs 3d printer files.
I also sometimes use FreeCAD.

Dazz


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