# New Shop layout - advice sought



## Tamey (Oct 4, 2019)

Hi All

New guy here. So new, I have no shop or tools. First priority is to get "the shop". I'm currently working on this as the main project.

I'm fortunate enough to still own the same vehicle I learned to drive in 30+ years ago, so the "proposed" new shop is also a garage for this vehicle. I've attached concept plans for the size and shape of the building - see attached. It's the "L-shaped" building at back of house called "Garage". Dimensions in metric (mm).  The entry bay will be occupied by my vehicle but the rest is for a hobby shop. Only an escape shed - it is not for production/profit.

It has not been built, but I intend for it to be insulated corrugated iron (called Colorbond, here n Australia). 

Questions:
1. What are the considerations for layout? I plan to get a lathe, mill, cut-off saw, bench grinder, CNC router.
2. What is recommended for floor covering? Epoxy? Any other options that people have explored.
3. Would appreciated and lessons learned by others? Should I worry that the vehicle shares a shop with stock being turned into swarf being turned into scrap?

Any advice would be great. Happy to post pictures of development if anyone is interested. I expect building to commence February next year - council approval delays and Christmas get in the way

regards to all
Tamey


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## Cogsy (Oct 4, 2019)

My shed floor is plain concrete but I have rubber anti-fatigue mats where I stand for the lathe, mill and workbench which makes a huge difference to my comfort (especially my poor back).

I also have a cut-off saw but it only ever got used for chopping up bits for constructing trailers and heavy stuff, and I always used a hacksaw for modelling stuff (even though some hacksawing sessions were over 2 hours long) until I bought a cheap Hare and Forbes horizontal metal bandsaw. This is one of the best tools I ever bought and can be had brand new for just over $300 at times. I'd highly recommend you get one (and I haven't used the drop-saw for anything since I got the bandsaw either).

My shed is also crammed with a car I've had since I was 18 (1970 V6 Capri GT) which is waiting patiently for restoration. It hasn't suffered at all by being so close to my machining, except that I sometimes use it as a storage shelf for my completed parts which is disrespecting it a bit.

As for layout, that's largely up to you. To maximise available space, some people put their mill on a 45 degree angle in a corner so you can still get full travel of your table but not use as much wall space. Like most, I like my lathe and mill quite close together as you tend to switch between the two quite often. My bench grinder is far away from my lathe and mill so it doesn't cover them in grit. Apart from that, I just fit stuff in where I can make a space.


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## Tamey (Oct 5, 2019)

Thanks Cogsy . Great advice, especially the 45 degree placement of mill. I have a corner near a (proposed) window to accommodate. I'm convinced the a horizontal band saw is a must. Will place grinder and saw behind a "shower curtain" (as an idea). 

Don't leave that Capri too long! My rig is no quite so striking. When I was 10, my Dad bought a 1984 Toyota Troop Carrier. I have it and it's still in great running condition with no rust.


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## Charles Lamont (Oct 5, 2019)

I line the concrete with interlocking (T&G) chipboard flooring panels. Cheap, warmer, easier on the feet, easier on things  dropped. Another thing I like is electrical sockets overhead, so I can put machines in the middle of the shop, leaving the walls for bench and storage space.


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## ShopShoe (Oct 5, 2019)

What size machines are you thinking of getting?

I like to put the places for tools and tooling "most often used" near the machines they go with. Less often used things go further away or in deeper storage. 

But I have smaller machines on stands with storage underneath. The only thing about tool storage I would NEVER do is put something over a machine or where it would accidentally require putting one of my body parts too close to a running machine. (There are those who differ on this, of course.)

I also like having a plain bench with vise in the workflow. I need a place for trial assembly, layout, detail work by hand, and laying out plans or notes. That bench also provides a place for less-often used tools like small belt sander, scroll saw, etc. I have seen people use a rolling bench they can move around for that.

We all could go on and on, but I suggest looking at posts here to see what others have done and also look at some of the YouTube contributors to see how they arrange their shops, both large and small.

--ShopShoe


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## tornitore45 (Oct 5, 2019)

If the floor is plain concrete I would seal it. It cut down on the dust, easy to clean and does not soak the oil.  Whatever floor finish be sure is light in color and solid, not speckled or textured.  You will realize the advantage when you drop a small part and spend 1/2 hr on your belly to find it.
For the same reason, every cabinet that is not on wheels goes all the way to the floor. No feet.  Easy to clean and no possibility for parts to fall in the 4th dimension never to be seen again.
Windows are desirable but they take valuable wall space to hang tools.
If at all possible, aesthetically and sunlight exposure wise, put them high narrow and long.  The robbed wall space will be the least desirable for shelves.


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## larryg (Oct 5, 2019)

When I built my shop I was thinking clean and dirty areas.  The clean area is where the mills, lathes, drill presses and such go.  The dirty area is for welding, grinding, painting and vehicle repair.  In this thinking I also thought heated and unheated areas.  The clean area is ~4000mm x 9000m and I am comfortable in there with 2 lathes ( 10" & 13") a mill and workbenches.  I would suggest you look at some kind of a divider so that you can have a clean heated area and cold dirty area.

lg
no neat sig line


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## Tamey (Oct 5, 2019)

Thanks everyone. I now have a bunch of good ideas  about. 

FYI, the tooling I'm looking at is:

AL-336D Deluxe from Hare and Forbes.  

Something like the HM-46B mill from H&F (not done any mill research yet)  https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M138D

I already have this CNC Router for light materials: https://3dtek.xyz/product/xyz-carve/

I have plenty of time to refine/change decisions in this space....

Tamey


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## Brian Lawson (Oct 6, 2019)

Hey Tamey,  just a few comments. 

You will eventually have some item to be milled that is waaaayyy too long for the table, so keep one end having "free space" for projection.

Same for the lathe..you will often have a piece extending beyond the spindle, or at least have some need to get at the "free end" of the spindle with an item of some length, so don't put the head-stock into a wall.  Leave enough room to get the tailstock off the bed too.

Chop saws are super fast, not particularly accurate and the "dirtiest" machine in the shop, *but super fast*.

From my old mentor....about bench vises. One should be on a standard bench where the bench-top  is commonly at the standard 29-1/2 " to 32" (somewhere between "crotch" and waist height), and another where the clamping jaws of the vise are at YOUR mid-bicep height.  My "high one" is on a bench-top that is 30" deep x  72" long  and 45" high.

Good luck.
Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.


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## tornitore45 (Oct 6, 2019)

> From my old mentor....about bench vises. One should be on a standard bench where the bench-top is commonly at the standard 29-1/2 " to 32" (somewhere between "crotch" and waist height), and another where the clamping jaws of the vise are at YOUR mid-bicep height. My "high one" is on a bench-top that is 30" deep x 72" long and 45" high.



Not having a power saw, I can appreciate the high one for "power" hacking.

If you do not have two vises and have no room for like I do.
Have a movable platform made like a deck and change your height.
I have these movable decks for the lathe and the mill, they are covered with anti-fatigue mats, they are fairly light to kick around or stand up for clearance (made of cider wood).

Most of the time my vise has a 12" x 24" tray clamped in it. The tray has lips and leather on the bottom.  It sit at the right of the lathe which has little free bench space.  The tray usually hold the drawing, the measuring instruments and any small item that is easily lost.


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## packrat (Oct 6, 2019)

That AL-336D Deluxe lathe looks real nice, that would be a great addition to any shop...


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## Apprentice707 (Oct 6, 2019)

Hello Tamey,

This is a good opportunity to have a great workshop from day 1. 

The previous correspondents have all offered good advice, and I would agree with all of them, in addition, I would add overhead airlines on recoil units, and a small sink with running water. A compressor is always useful and if space permits try to site it outside, just simply the noise element in a confined space.

The lathe you list looks good, but you might also consider secondhand lathes of European origin. Myford, Boxford, Colchester, Harrison and some good German and Swedish machines, the same goes for Milling Machines. Of course, the USA produces some good stuff too. An Australian I met on a holiday in China swore by his Russian made lathe so perhaps these are to be found in your part of the world too.

The anti-fatigue mats work well but are a pain to clean even with a vacuum. 

You have not mentioned lights, theses are very important (even more so as you get older) and should include general background illumination and task lighting, safety must be considered with low voltage lighting for task lighting and cool white LED lights for general lighting.

Good Luck with the project, perhaps you will post some pics when it is completed.

Cheers

B


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## CraigLD (Oct 6, 2019)

I'm a total newbie, so take any of my comments with a grain of salt.  When I retired, my wife and I moved down here to Lake Anna, Virginia.  The house we bought had a large (24' x 24') garage that we converted into a shop/work room.  Since we weren't going to use it as a garage, we polished the concrete and replaced the double garage door with a 4 panel sliding door.  My wife had a custom closet company install floor to ceiling cabinets on one side and I installed an assortment of "Gladiator" and "NewAge" shop cabinets on the other two sides.  I like the NewAge cabinets better, they are made out of heavier steel.  Somewhat in the center of the space I put in a 36" x 72" workbench from Global.  This is where I have my vice.  Instead of using peg board to hang up my tools, I installed a number of magnetic tool bars.  So much more convenient than peg board.  On the benches that go around "my" two sides, I have my lathe, drill press, and bench grinder.  Off in a corner we have our 3D printer.

For heating and cooling, we installed a mini split heat pump, which works great.

All in all, it is working out fine.


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## toolingjim (Oct 6, 2019)

A belated welcome.
Just a couple thoughts about placement for a lathe. Assuming your future lathe is bigger than a mini, I would agree with a previous poster that you don't want to 'deadhead' the headstock bore. My headstock is about 9 feet from the nearest wall. The space in between is filled by a work table that is lower than the spindle centerline, so I can put long pieces into the lathe from the back of the headstock. If the part is long and whippy,I just rig a couple of supports on the bench out of scrap lumber--and run the job lots slower than usual. It's worked so far.
If your lathe is open (no built in guarding), be sure to allow for cleanup behind the lathe. My main lathe is a Logan on cast iron legs, so I put a cheap roll around tool cart under the tray for tooling. Come cleanup time, I sweep/vacuum in front, pull the cart out on its casters, and finish up in back. Roll the cart back under, and I'm all set for the next mess--I mean project.
Good luck. Hope this helps.


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## tornitore45 (Oct 6, 2019)

For what is worth. I hate peg boards.


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## Ozwes007 (Oct 6, 2019)

Just a few thoughts. I had nearly the same setup from Hare&Forbes, a 52 instead of a 48 mill, and I CNC’d my small mill drill. What I would do is place your compressor outside in a little covered area(cuts noise), don’t deadhead your lathe, leave room to get to it and to place material through it. Using coolant it will leak out the back and go everywhere, I made a removable plug for mine. Your cnc router will produce massive amounts of dust, get a dust hood for it, the router dust will get in the bed ways of your other machinery and create havoc with them,  and it needs to have the control box/computer isolated(ups is good for this) from your mains power to stop electrical spikes destroying it or a job your doing. Yes it will happen if you don’t. Leave room around your machinery to clean or walk around(not necessarily behind) . Good luck with it. I’ve just sold all mine as I’m in the middle of building our retirement home with a new Workshop as well. 16M x 7.5M, the powers that be have allowed! Me to purchase all new machinery when it’s done !  I’ll be CNCing my new mill and lathe when I get them, albeit they are going to be smaller units.
Wes


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## clockworkcheval (Oct 7, 2019)

Great to have the opportunity te design a new workshop. One thing I kept in mind myself is that looking down at 15 degrees from the horizontal is most friendly to your body, especially neck and back. This goes both for standing up and sitting down. Funny enough most machinetools are not build with this in mind. I had to raise mine on average 300 mm. I use two sets of U-beams for this so there is room for a pallet truck. It is amazing how convenient it is to be able to move the machines around. The second thing is storage. I'm Dutch and I hate to part with my money. I found that general kitchen furniture with wooden top serves very wel to store the tools and fixtures in the shop. I found that an 'IKEA' drawer wil hold up to 50 kilo without problem. Third thing is cleaning parts and tools, especially collets. For this I use a low noise compressor situated between lathe and mill and a high closed bin. I do the blowing in the bin so the chips don't go all over the shop. Please see the enclosed pictures:

1  Schaublin 102VM lathe and Aciera F3 Mill, both raised, with compressor and bin in between
2  Wabeco F1210 Mill on steel cabinet from 50 mm square tubing 1200 mm with standard IKEA kitchen cabinet
3  The large SOLID drill press and the small French PRECIS drill press raised to table height of 1150 mm


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## SpringHollow (Oct 7, 2019)

There are some safety negatives of having your powered machines that high, throwing chips etc near face level.  I always struggle with what is the best machine height since I have competing demands due to a back injury - too low and my back hurts from bending slightly, too high and my back hurts from having my arms raised too high for too long.  As mentioned, having a platform to stand on can help.  When I had a riser installed on my mill for an extended period of time, I made a semipermanent platform out of solid cement  blocks with a mat on top.  I keep a wheeled step stool around for quick height changes.

Ken


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## awake (Oct 7, 2019)

One thing to consider when it comes to a "bench" grinder - a bench is way too low for comfortable grinding. Based on a recommendation made in another forum, I set mine up at nearly shoulder height, and it is one of the best decisions every - that and getting the right type of stone, since the ones that come with most bench grinder are way too hard. Note that having the grinder this high makes with protection essential - but then again, it is essential regardless of the height.

On dead heading the lathe - I had no choice with the placement of my Cincinnati Traytop lathe; it is not right up against a wall, but only about 18" of clearance, enough to get to the end gearing if needed. When I placed it there, some 10 years ago, I resigned myself to having to move it out about a foot to clear the garage door if/when I needed something to hang out more than 18" - a bit of a pain, but not really that hard to do. But 10 years later, I have yet to needed to move it! Of course, mileage varies ....


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## tornitore45 (Oct 7, 2019)

> I'm Dutch and I hate to part with my money.


  LOL
You do not need to be Dutch to be tight, I do not have a drop of Dutch blood and some would say I am so tight I squeak.


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## tornitore45 (Oct 7, 2019)

My bench grinders are too low, making it difficult to judge when the tool I am trying to sharpen is touching the right spot of the wheel.
The angle of the surface you grind depends on the spot you touch on a round wheel.


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## Charles Lamont (Oct 7, 2019)

SpringHollow said:


> I always struggle with what is the best machine height since I have competing demands due to a back injury - too low and my back hurts from bending slightly, too high and my back hurts from having my arms raised too high for too long.


I find a high stool is one of the more important pieces of workshop furniture.


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## SpringHollow (Oct 7, 2019)

A high chair sounds like a good idea for some operations - I always stand.  A low chair might solve the low grinder height problem some are having.


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## clockworkcheval (Oct 8, 2019)

Safety glasses for protection at the machines?


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## SpringHollow (Oct 8, 2019)

I always wear safety glasses when in the shop but they should be the last line of defense.  A hot chip (or worse) hitting your face is not fun.


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## awake (Oct 8, 2019)

When grinding, I always use a full face shield.


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## Tamey (Oct 8, 2019)

Great advice, all. I'll take pictures as it comes together - but not for some time. Earliest build commencement is Feb next year at this rate.  I'm starting to think the 336D lathe might be too much machinery for me as a beginner - but that's an aside comment. 
I've added a horizontal band saw on the list and an air compressor. Also a shop vac for the router - I've already got a dust shroud for it.

regards to all
Tamey


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## Robsmith (Oct 10, 2019)

Get onto the "Garage Journal" forum... you'll get heaps of ideas there


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## Tamey (Oct 10, 2019)

Great reference. Thanks Rob


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