# A Smaller Steam Engine For A Smaller Boat



## apointofview

Well my steam powered sternwheeler http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=22191 is fun to run, but it is a real event to get 50lbs and 6ft of boat  out to the water and back. I want something I can toss into the car and steam on a pond with little effort and support equipment.

I am going to start with the running gear to get an idea of weight and from there I will find some kind of hull that will hold the running gear and be able to handle a little bit of waves. Right now I have to go out on glass smooth days for the Liberty Belle.

So here goes...

I have a chunk of 3 inch copper pipe stamped with an 'L' left over from the first boiler I built. I want to make a vertical fire tube boiler this time. I cut off a chunk of the pipe, heated it up and formed that plate into the end caps. It took many heating cycles to get the metal to bend around the wood form blocks. I used a flush set in my rivet gun to do the work for me. They seemed to come out pretty good. It sure is amazing how much the copper will bend and form. I am basing the boiler on drawings in a book called Model Boilers and Boilermaking by K.N. Harris.  It will have a 3" dia x 5" tall shell with 37 1/4 OD fire tubes.

Here are the pictures

















































Pete


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## bmac2

Looking good Pete, I think Ill pull up a chair and tag along. That piece of 3 tube looks a lot like the one I have our in the garage but I think mine might have more spiders


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## Herbiev

I'll pull up a chair too. Looking great so far.


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## apointofview

That's funny mine had a lot of web before I cleaned it up guess it makes a nice home

Next up was riveting the end plates on the shell.  I know they aren't necessarily but they look pretty neat and they sure can't hurt for added strength. I used 1/8 copper rivets from McMaster Carr. My rivet set wasn't quite the right profile but after bucking them they looked fine. 

I also drilled holes for the bronze bushings for all the anticipated fittings that will be needed later.

Pete


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## apointofview

Next up was brazing up the ends with 45% silver.  I went and got a weed burner torch to attach to my barbeque propane bottle to heat the whole shell, and then used a smaller mapp torch in the local area I wanted the solder to melt.













I needed to solder in all 37 fire tubes at the same time so I set up the lathe to wind the solder into a coil so I could cut rings to place around each tube at each end. I fluxed it all, heated everything up and it came out pretty good.  A dip in citric acid and it was all back to a pretty copper color.

Pete


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## apointofview

I turned the bushings out of 544 bronze and tapped them to 1/8-27 NPT and then secured them with more silver.  That stuff is not cheap !!  I did a low pressure leak check under water and found a couple of leaks on the fire tubes one one side with a couple of tubes.  I refluxed and added a little more solder, recheck at low psi.  Once that was done I checked the boiler at 130psi, I hope to run it around 30-40 psi but this leaves me room to up the working pressure if I need to.


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## kvom

Even with some seeps the boiler will tighten up when hot.  Really nice work.


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## apointofview

I didn't know they would do that, I guess the metal expands and stops tiny leaks.

These few post are coming fast because I have been working on this project a little while before I got around to posting my work.  I'll be caught up soon and the updates will slow up considerably.

I switched gears and started the steam engine next because I had to order a tap to work on the burner for the boiler.  I cant continue the boiler till I see how big the burner will turn out and where it needs to be positioned to work well.

The vee twin engine I am going to build is called Modelldampfmaschine V10/12. I found these plans on the internet here - http://www.plans-for-everything.com/downloads/steam_engines/SE VGerman.pdf

I am using google translate to understand the directions.  I haven't worked with metric dimensions in the little experience I have machining so that has been a new challenge.  

The first part in the plans is the engine base.  It calls for two concave cutouts with a 16mm radius, and I sat around staring at my mill for a while wondering how I would pull off this cut.  I looked into buying a 32mm T-slot cutter, but that was 30-40$ for a cheap ebay cutter and the less I spend the better so I had to try something else.  I came up with a homemade setup that used a 5/8" piece of cold rolled steel with a hole drilled near the end and a set screw to hold a HSS #21 drill bit shank that was repurposed to form a 3mm cutting edge.  I was able to set the cutting radius to 16mm and made a few test cuts on scrap, and it worked great. Everything else was straight forward, I just went real slow to get the part exactly to the plans.  I haven't built an engine using real plans before, it sure is nice to just build what is called for and not have to wing it the whole time ! 

Starting so square up the stock



Testing the new cutter on scrap



All done with the radius cutouts. What isn't in the pictures is the scrapped version that almost got this far but the cutouts were messed up. I forgot to take into consideration the thickness of the tool when I was watching my DRO when cutting the length of the cutout.  It was 3mm to long when I pulled it off the vise !!!  Lots of time down the drain...



Drilling the holes very carefully because there isnt  way to match drill the bearing blocks that will sit on it. Which is my usual practice.  This is the better way but its hard for me, my skills, and my loose chinese tooling !!






First part complete



Pete


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

I live in a railway town where there is a loco museum which was set up by the famous record producer, Pete Waterman, It is called " The Crewe Heritage Centre".

http://creweheritagecentre.org/about-us/

Anyway, back to the reason for this note.
We used to go to the supermarket right next door to it, and it sometimes had locos steaming up in the yards. When you first saw them, there were rivets leaking all over the boilers, but after finishing shopping, they were all leak free. Expansion and rust had sealed everything up.

But unfortunately here in the UK, we are not allowed any leaks on the small boilers we make.

A really great job you've done with yours.

John


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## RonGinger

I think the sealing on steel boilers is rust, but a copper boiler won't rust. Tiny leaks can be 'caulked' with soft solder which is much easier to apply. But do NOT get any soft solder around if you ever expect to silver solder again. The lead will contaminate the work and you will never get it clean.


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## apointofview

John - That looks like a neat place to live near.  It seems like it would be really interesting to be a working volunteer and see full scale steam equipment up close and personal !!

RonGinger - Thats good to know about the softer solder, I didnt know that would happen.  

I did get this boiler sealed up completely, but the other boiler I have seemed like it seeped a very tiny amount when I first fired it up years ago. I thought I saw a few wisps of steam from the flue tubes that have cross drilled water tubes in them.  It was so small I just left it alone, but I never saw that trace moisture again after a few firings.  I dont know if it was a leak that healed, or just water from condensation during the heating up. It passed a couple pressure checks with water and low air pressure under water looking for bubbles.  Who knows but it works great now.


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## apointofview

Next items were the bearing blocks. The plans call for the blocks to be made from brass. I don't have any that thick but I have plenty of aluminum so I decided to just make brass bushings for the crankshaft to ride on. 
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The plans call for a radius on the top corners of the blocks but that's another tool I don't have so I just made steps instead
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I drilled the blocks to accept a .001 interference fit bushing
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I know that any day now we here in the US are going to switch over to the metric system but for now all I have is inch based stock so my crank shaft will be built up from 3/16 stainless rod. I drilled and reamed the bushings  for that diameter. 
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The mount holes took a long time to locate, I didn't want to mess them up so I rechecked it many times before drilling and tapping for 2-56 cap screws ( another deviation )
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Last hole was for oiling the bushings
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This is how they mount up
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Almost caught up
Pete


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## bmac2

You guys south of the 49th parallel will probably go metric the same way as we have in the great white north. Officially Canada went metric in the 70s but to this day its a mix and if I go to my local metal supplier other than some metric drill rod its all imperial. Some hardware stores call it 12.7mm copper tube instead of ½ or 121.92cm x 243.84cm sheets of plywood instead of 4 x 8 but the problem is youve got over 100 years of existing stuff thats all imperial and a new part or addition has to fit.
Im enjoying your build and for what its worth I think the bearing blocks look better with the steps. Good job on the alignment. That sort of thing always gives me fits.


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## RonGinger

The US went metric in the 70's as well, but Regan cancelled all the budget for the change over and no one followed through.


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## Cymro77

I am following along.  Very interesting build.  For someone with little machining experience you sure get the job done!!


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## apointofview

It seems like they only got half of the hardware in the engines of the cars I own converted.  My guess is the tool mfgs lobbied to keep it mixed up to sell more sockets and wrenches 

Thanks for the kind words, I am really slow and still produce plenty of scrap or "changes" to the design.  I would be hard pressed to make just a simple 1"x1"x1" perfect cube, like I was told a buddy of mine had to make for a test when he was learning machining.

Pete


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## Ghosty

apointofview said:


> I would be hard pressed to make just a simple 1"x1"x1" perfect cube, like I was told a buddy of mine had to make for a test when he was learning machining.
> 
> Pete


 
 We went metric in the 70's and I still use both. Done a Fitter/Machining apprenticeship, in the late 70's in imperial, (no metric) I remember the test with the 1" cube, was given a 2"dia ball in cast iron, hammer, chisel, and a file and told to make it, could not do it now to save my life.
I use what I have, saves money buying new tools unless needed.
Keep up the great work, Just following along

Cheers


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## apointofview

Ok I had another scrapping event but I don't know what happened mabey you guys have seen this. I don't want it to happen again. The crankshaft is a built up 3 piece design and it called for pins to be pressed into the three shafts through the brass. I don't have good pinning material and bits to get a good press fit so I tried running 2-56 cap screws through everything. Well that still allowed some movement so I went to soldering it together. That didn't go well and here is why. For some reason the solder/flux ate into the brass !!  I haven't had that happen before and I was using hard solder not silver solder so it wasn't even that hot. I'm at a loss. A redesign is in order too. I don't like how this is built.
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The file marks are from me making sure the solder was really below the face of the brass

It was going so well and now I've got to start over. This hobby can be hard on a person huh. This is what it was lookin like before disaster struck 
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Pete


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## kvom

My approach on these crankshafts has been to loctite them together.  Once cured, I drill cross holes with 1/16" bit and press some 1/16 drill rod also with loctite.  I use gauge blocks during assemly to ensure everything is parallel.


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## fcheslop

Looking good. I came across a double sized set of drawings that show the porting a wee bit clearer
http://www.vapeuretmodelesavapeur.com/telechargements4/bicylindre-en-v.pdf
Maybe of some help to someone in the future
These little V twins are good runners and pretty reliable
Good luck


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## apointofview

Kvom thanks I am going to try the locktite this time, but to show my ignorance how do you use guage blocks to keep it all aligned. I guess i just cant picture it in my head.  This time so far i mounted the new slightly oversize brass disks on their respective shaft stubs and then mounted the shaft in the lathe and finished off the final dimensions so those parts spin true. Getting the crank throw correct seems tougher.

fcheslop  thanks for that link those are really nice renderings and it helped a lot, it cleared a few questions up I had.  I will get them printed out.

Pete


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

Julius, who does those plans always does a great job of them and in fact, you are better off not printing them out as if you are using the correct PDF reader, you can select very large views of every component. If you printed each part out, you would end up with about 100 pages.
He puts lots of plans on here, and this is one of his latest, for the beginners amongst us.

http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Oscillator.html

John


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## kvom

Use of gauge blocks works like this.  Assume that the disks are flat on both sides.  Then I place block(s) equal to the desired separation between them so that they are forced to be parallel and the correct distance apart while the loctite sets.  I use Loctite 620.


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## KBC

Pete.

Make your discs the exact same dia and drill thro' the centre to suit your shaft ensuring that they are machined parallel.
Make a small piece of your shaft material as a sliding fitting set it up vertical in your bench drill and feed the 2- disc blanks on to it, wind out the "X" or "Y" table to the radius of the stroke ensuring that the discs are held firm and square to the vertical, drill thro' to suit the journal dia.
Make another piece of round material to suit the big end journal and slip it thro' the journal hole, you now have the journal parallel to the main shaft.

I use Loctite 603 now think of doing one side at a time by putting some Loctite on the main shaft and slip a disc onto it's position, leave for 30 mins and then put the big end journal in with Loctite and leave for 30 mins, you can then slide the other disc into position with Loctite and a smear of Loctite on the journal and press both into position.

Leave the assembly over night  to cure and then drill a 1/16" di hole in each of the discs, thro' the journal and main shaft with the ends sticking out both sides, use a piece of mild steel rod or a piece of brass rod making sure that you have the Loctite going right thro' before pushing the rod thro', leave overnight to cure , flush of the ends , cut out the central piece of the main shaft and.

Do  a few practise runs before glueing up as the Loctite goes off quite fast. 

Here are 2- pics of a Launch engine shaft with 4- discs with the journal holes and main shaft holes drilled and kept in position before assembly.

I hope this will help you.

George.


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## apointofview

Thanks guys I can see what I need to do now, those replays are a lot of help. It seemed simple just to look at the drawings but looks were deceiving!  

I do have another question, the disks are just round, most of the time crankshafts are cut to counter weight the piston and connecting rod. Should I remove some material from the crank pin side of the disks or does this design run fine as is ?


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## KBC

apointofview said:


> Thanks guys I can see what I need to do now, those replays are a lot of help. It seemed simple just to look at the drawings but looks were deceiving!
> 
> I do have another question, the disks are just round, most of the time crankshafts are cut to counter weight the piston and connecting rod. Should I remove some material from the crank pin side of the disks or does this design run fine as is ?



Pete ,
It makes no difference to the engine performance, stick with the designers discs.

I have in the past made the crank webs with the balanced cut outs and some with just strips of mild steel and I find no difference to performance.
At this size it's purely aesthetic.

George.


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## apointofview

Ok thanks George that's less work !!  

So for my next attempt I carved up two more webs to replace the ones I destroyed and then drilled them up for set screws to pinch the shafts. I shy away from permanent attachments because it seems everything I own needs fixing at some point. I positioned the set screws for the throw in such a way to allow for carving the web for balancing, that was before George let me know there is no need to do it. I am going to set it all with locktite 242 the blue removable stuff. If that doesn't hold up then pinning and serious locktite will be in order. At least this time everything is nice and straight if I have to lock it all down forever.   Next up is the cam. 

Pete

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A bit of video just to see it spin

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7bILYRpRxM&feature=share[/ame]


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## KBC

Pete,
Nice runner, you shouldn't have any trouble with the socket grubs it's a well supported shaft, if you do don't use the 243 Loctite it's only for thread lock.
If you have to, be brave and use Loctite 603 or 620. and it will never move.

Keep up the good work.

George


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## apointofview

Time for the valve cam. I didn't get as many pictures for this one but here's what I got.
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The brass was rough cut to size and then I drilled the offset hole. I mounted it on a hunk of drill rod and tried to put it in my 4 jaw chuck to get to the final dimensions. Problem was the jaws wouldn't close on the rod in the offset position it needed. I ended up having to put a second piece of rod in the jaws to allow them to be tightened to the 1.3mm offset called for. 
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This is the retaining ring

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The securing of the ring is supposed to be a couple of tiny countersunk screws that I don't have. I ended up modifying the cap screws to lower the profile to flush out on the thin ring. 
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This is where it will live. Timing it will come later

Looks like cylinder parts are next

Pete


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## apointofview

Cylinder end covers are next. They seem simple enough and here is what I got done 
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So the two of the covers need work on the back side of them for o-rings and two have a raised area for clearing the nut inside the cylinder, and all of them need a bit of thinning down.. I left them a little thicker because I can't part off pieces right at perfect dimensions with nice finishes. So here is where I need help from you guys... 

How do I shave down the back of these tiny disks? 

I can hold them to drill the three holes 120degrees apart and get the o-ring grove cut in the three jaw chuck but the chuck is in the way for thinning down the part 
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## apointofview

Oops here is the other drawing showing the dome I need to cut
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## Cogsy

You could bore a hole in a piece of bar for the 10mm 'boss' to be a slight interference fit into but it's tricky to get right. Otherwise, make it a nice slip fit and use a bit of superglue to hold the part in the end of a bar, then use a bit of heat to remove it after machining and some nail polish remover (acetone) to clean up the residue. 

It might not work for large and heavy parts but for light machining on small pieces it should work fine.


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## Cymro77

Try using the shellac glue with a small spigot mounted on the lathe.  See the article by Tony Bird on this site.


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## KBC

apointofview said:


> Cylinder end covers are next. They seem simple enough and here is what I got done
> View attachment 85377
> 
> View attachment 85378
> 
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> 
> View attachment 85380
> 
> View attachment 85381
> 
> 
> So the two of the covers need work on the back side of them for o-rings and two have a raised area for clearing the nut inside the cylinder, and all of them need a bit of thinning down.. I left them a little thicker because I can't part off pieces right at perfect dimensions with nice finishes. So here is where I need help from you guys...
> 
> How do I shave down the back of these tiny disks?
> 
> I can hold them to drill the three holes 120degrees apart and get the o-ring grove cut in the three jaw chuck but the chuck is in the way for thinning down the part
> View attachment 85382
> 
> View attachment 85383



Pete .Another method that I use is to machine up a collet as shown  about 1/2" long and bore out to leave a ledge the thickness of the cover and cut a saw drift thro' to allow the cover to be clamped, the wall thickness is about 3/16" max. Use any material that you have, the big one is mild steel and the smaller one is Ali.

The big one in the pick is for the Stuart range of engines , D10 & others at 3/4" bore, the other is for an engine that I am working on at present with a 7/16"" bore. 
When completed they go into my Jigs and Fixture box for future use.

George.


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## fcheslop

I simply made a jig from a wee bit of bar drilling a hole right through 6mm counter bore with a slot drill to fit the cover and super glued them in as super glue doesnt have a great sheer strength  a sharp whack released them.Put a small center pop next to number1 jaw so the mandrel can be refitted to the chuck in the correct orientation  .Failing that what George said.
I do use shellac chucks when required but now tend to glue them on its just easier I find.Shellac chucks are very useful but unless youve got some shellac some elcheopo super glue will work fine.
Once finished with keep as it may come in again oneday thats why Iv a pile of junk hiding under the bench with the spiders
When making the bottom covers I made the counter bore for the O ring a few thou deeper and then polished them down to get a nice slide fit and also gave the piston rods a light polish as the radial grind marks wear the O rings quickly
Nice Marcher George


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## KBC

fcheslop said:


> I simply made a jig from a wee bit of bar drilling a hole right through 6mm counter bore with a slot drill to fit the cover and super glued them in as super glue doesnt have a great sheer strength  a sharp whack released them.Put a small center pop next to number1 jaw so the mandrel can be refitted to the chuck in the correct orientation  .Failing that what George said.
> I do use shellac chucks when required but now tend to glue them on its just easier I find.Shellac chucks are very useful but unless youve got some shellac some elcheopo super glue will work fine.
> Once finished with keep as it may come in again oneday thats why Iv a pile of junk hiding under the bench with the spiders
> When making the bottom covers I made the counter bore for the O ring a few thou deeper and then polished them down to get a nice slide fit and also gave the piston rods a light polish as the radial grind marks wear the O rings quickly
> Nice Marcher George



Drat and double drat, Frazer you have found me out so I suppose I should post a pic of the little engine to date.
It's a Marcher engine from A.J.Reeves and can be made either piston valve or Stevenson reverse linkage, I am making it with the Stevenson gear. It stands about 3.25" high x 3" long, a bit longer when a boiler feed pump is fitted.
The casting were given to me by an old friend who no longer has the eyesight to see what he is doing so I took on the machining of the engine.
It'a a twin cylinder double acting engine of 7/16" bore x 7/16" stroke , each piston contrary to opinions of members on this forum are fitted with Silicone "O" rings  and before an argument starts I would ask the question , " why do model engineer suppliers state that black Nitrile or Viton rings are not suitable for steam pistons" and excuse themselves from supplying them for steam pistons.

George.


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## apointofview

Hey these are all great ideas!! Thanks everyone for taking the time to help me out. I have started working with the ends of the cylinders using Cogsy's suggestion for an interference fit on the 10mm boss. I have started on the first cover but life has gotten in the way so not much progress but it looks like it's going to work... Great thing about all the answers is it gives me plenty of great ideas on how to deal with tasks like this... I would have never though of superglue or shellac or even a custom fixture, I was stuck. This is what is so great about this group, lots of friendly knowledge that is shared to a bumbling hobbyist like me &#128512; 
THANKS everyone! 
Pete 
Oh ya here is a pick of the tiny progress. I cut the aluminum round stock to fit the 10mm boss and reduced the dia to allow me to get calipers on the part and be able to knock it off the holder 
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## bmac2

It&#8217;s looking good Pete.
I use superglue more than I probably should when machining. If you put a little heat on the part (heat gun, small torch, BBQ lighter) the glue will let go. Saves accidentally putting a ding in the part by knocking it off.


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## Blogwitch

It is times like that when a set of soft jaws come into their own.

They are cheap and if looked after will last for many years and you will get perfect accuracy because the jaws are bored to take the part.

John


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## apointofview

soft jaws sound great but a web search for those that fit my chinese mini lathe gives no results.  I'll keep looking but that also does not line up with my cheapskate lifestyle ! 

Pete


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## Blogwitch

Don't worry Pete, there are known cures for being a cheapskate, and if ever you manage to get cured, it could be the making of you. 

I myself will not buy a new three or four jaw self centering chuck unless I can also buy a set of soft jaws for it.

This little 4" chuck for instance, the soft jaws came to just over 20 UK pounds, and no matter how much runout the chuck has, those little jaws can become the almost perfectly accurate little bit of tooling you ever own.
This one is destined for a CNC rotary table, and another exactly the same for fitting to a dividing head, and yes, you can use soft jaws on your mill RT, just to the same effect as it can be used on the lathe.







Just think of it, no more struggling to hold those little circular parts so that you can work on them, from one to a hundred all identical bits, easily held with astonishing accuracy, all for less than 100 UK pounds, from a small basic lathe or mill, and the chuck can be used in it's own right as normal!!!

This is one bit of tooling that everyone should strive for instead of those here today, gone tomorrow gizmos.

John


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## kvom

One of my lathe chucks has 2-piece jaws, so the top pieces can be removed and replaced by aluminum soft jaws.  Definitely the way to go for larger diameter thin disks.  For small pieces like yours the collet approach works well, but personally I would have used glue on a plate for those covers as being the quickest and easiest


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## apointofview

I actually had to glue one of the parts, the boss was just a bit smaller so it wouldn't hold when the cutting tool starting removing metal. 

A soft jaw chuck sounds fun. Maybe someday. 

Here are the covers, all done the holder and glue worked great. 

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The cylinders are next so I have started getting a piece of scrap from my quick change tool post project down to size. 

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Pete


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## jimsshop1

Very nicely done sir! I wonder if there is a way to convert the instructions to English? I can do the metric conversions. Happy Thanksgiving to all members!

Thanks,

Jim in Pa


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## apointofview

Thanks Jim! 
There sure is a way to translate the instructions. I am using Google translate. Just highlight a paragraph of the text on the computer then copy the text and paste it in the box on Google translate. Have the language set to go from German to English and it will do the rest.. It's not perfect but it's good enough to get the idea of what needs to be done. 
Pete


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## apointofview

Time to knock a hole in the cylinder block. I drilled it up to close to the 10mm final diameter and then slowly reached the final size with a boring bar. I used a 90 grinder with a mandrel holding 2000 grit sand paper to finish out the bore.
One hole down one to go. 
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Pete


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## bmac2

That is a clean bore


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## Foozer

Boy, you have a few things haven't seen in years, clecos, core drill and rivet gun. Knocked down hundreds of thousands 1/4 KEs rivets on the Boeing 777 - You're brave to knock down those baby ones with a flat die . .  Seen newbies put a die thru the skin when the gun got away from them . . . 

Looks good . . .


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## apointofview

bmac2 - I hope to polish it further but not till the rest of the work on the cylinder is finished.

Foozer - Its all left overs from sheetmetal days at work long ago. I never shot rivets in the 777's we have, but plenty of bucking rivets on the other Boeing products  767's,757's,737's all the way back to 727's.  Some KE's but mostly icebox DD's.  I didnt haul out the draw clecos but they are around too. That set on the gun was for a universal 470 head rivet so it had a concave surface and wanted to stay on the head.  The copper rivets were big 430 round head rivets so they got a bit flattened when they were hit with the gun.  I dont have the skill to hold a flush set on a spot like that, your right that would end up in disaster.  Long ago a couple of guys at work were shooting rivets near a windshield opening and somehow the guy with the gun and a flush set managed to walk it over to the window hole and with finger still on the trigger fell into the opening and knocked that set into the cheekbone of the poor guy with the bucking bar !!!  That had to be the biggest black eye I have ever seen !!!!!

BTW - The workmanship on those aircraft you built is amazing !!!!! How you shot all those rivets so beautifully and without so much as a scuff on the metal is artwork :thumbup:

Pete


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## apointofview

I have gotten the cylinders down to final size.. I think I should have gotten the outside dimensions first and then punched the hole in the block, it may have been easier. Since the hole was first I had to mill every side down a bit to keep the wall thickness the same. I made a piece of plastic rod to fit in the bore to allow me to place the plastic rod on parallels.. This made it possible to keep the end mill at the same position for each side. Tedious but it worked. Now I have to put a bunch of holes in these blocks, gets a little nerve racking messing with a part with a lot of time invested in it. 
Pete 
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## apointofview

Twenty two holes later - 18 of 'em tapped to 2-56. Now I need to drill holes for the 4 cylinder end covers.View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1480641530.810947.jpg


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## apointofview

Covers mounted and done with tapping 2-56 holes for awhile I hope. Has anyone used a tapping head? Do they work and can you tap tiny little holes like these with one? 
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The lower covers get longer screws that will hold the cross head guides and piston rod seal. I'll get those sized up when those parts are done. 
Pete


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## apointofview

I decided to cut up brass to make the cross head guides next. The pictures cover the process pretty well. It's a real pain to setup the rotary table 4 times. Both parts needed three holes 120 degrees apart and then cut outs needed to be cut on the bolt head side. I had to keep the part chucked and position the table in the vertical position to keep the cuts exactly at the same spots as the hole that was drilled. Then repeat for the second cross head. 
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## apointofview

I went a few steps ahead to make some visual progress by making the brackets that hold the cylinders in place. Just some flat brass stock trimmed to size and then drilled the holes. I made the holes a little bigger to allow for tweaking the alignment of the cylinders slightly if needed. It wasn't much work but it made a big change in the look of the engine. Before I had a pile of parts, now it looks like I have an engine. Still tons of parts to make, all of them critical and tedious but this is fun to look at. 
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Pete


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## KBC

Hi Pete,
Looking very good and making good progress.

George.


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## apointofview

The next parts i decided to make are the valve bodies and their spools. The drawings have been great, but the ports on these valves are really hard to understand. I had to go and have a look at the drawings that fcheslop linked me to earlier in the thread. Those drawings help a lot it's the same engine but the dimensions are all done for a larger version than I am building. Anyway after looking more closely I figured out I drilled one hole in the wrong position. I thought I lost a lot of work, but turns out I can drive on the mistake won't affect the running---whew !!  I had to buy a 1.5mm end mill for the channels cut between the ports, that is a tiny bugger. 
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Pete


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## apointofview

Working on these little parts is tedious. The plans call for pins that have a threaded end. I went with 2-56 because that tap is in my pile of tools and it's close enough for the metric size called out in the drawings.   
I used stainless for the pins and cut threads using the lathe. I don't have a die that size. Getting a good finish on these little parts was hard ( I didn't get what I wanted ), hopefully what I ended up with will work. View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1482098066.237435.jpg

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## apointofview

Covers for the valves is up next. These were simple enough I just changed the decorative edges from a bevel shape to a cut with a bit of a radius. I didn't come up with good way to hold the cover consistently in order to cut the bevel. It was easier to run an endmill down the edge to get a dressed up edge on the cover. 
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## apointofview

Pistons and the rods they are mounted on are next. I plan on running graphite tape for 'rings' in the grooves on the pistons, it has worked fine so far on my sternwheeler engines. The only trouble I ran into here was forming the threads on the stainless shafts. I tried using a die for the 4-40 threads, but I had poor results, the die seemed to tear the threads. I ended up cutting the threads on the lathe. View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1482858390.599939.jpg

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## apointofview

Next on the list is the crosshead slider. Hardest part was the pin to connect it to the connecting rod. These parts a tiny !
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## apointofview

The connecting rods are supposed to be three pieces as drawn on the plans. That also requires bolts smaller than I have on hand so I opted to change the plans. I made the rods one piece and bushed both ends with brass. Since my crank shaft can be disassembled the rod bearing does not need to split. I was going to leave the rod squared off, but clearance in the crosshead guide was a problem so I had to back up and turn down the center section of the rod. I assembled  what I have so far and spun it up with the lathe and lots of oil. It's a little tight here and there but that can be worked out. 
Pete
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## a41capt

Looks great!  Can't wait to see it under power.  I've been following your project with interest and can't believe how small the components are! &#55357;&#56883;

Thanks for sharing. &#55357;&#56832;


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## KBC

Hi Pete,
Like a41capt I have been watching your progress, the engine is sure looking good.
Some times when you go off the drawing you have to improvise and most times it works out for the best.

I look forward to it's first steaming.

George.


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## apointofview

Thanks guys, it sure is fun to share this stuff with people that have similar interests. When I try to show the wife and kids I get a collective " that's nice" 
More progress - I guess these are cam followers ? A bit of a miss read of the print got me another deviation. The leg on the ring is supposed to be roughly twice as long to allow the valve connecting rod to thread into it and a jam nut secures it. Well I didn't want to waste the time and metal that I had in it so I am going with a stud in the ring with a jam nut sleeve to secure it. The rod will be drilled and threaded to mount on that stud and a nut to secure its position will be made to cover any gap and dress it up.
I thought that building off plans would  be a piece of cake but turns out if you don't study the drawing carefully chaos quickly ensues !
Pete
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## apointofview

Time to connect up the valve spool to the cam followers. Not much trouble here, but something must be a little off because with everything assembled there was a large increase in effort to turn the engine over. Turns out the alignment of the cam to the valve body needed work. I don't know if the drawings are off, it's hard to tell since at this point it could be a stack up of tolerances. I had to turn down the flywheel that dictates where the cam sits to move the valve bodies  closer to the cylinder blocks. That fixed the alignment, just wish I knew what happened. I have cut all the parts to the sizes called for as close as I can pull off at least. 
So that's most of the moving parts, next up is the steam control valve. That thing has a million holes in it !


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## bmac2

Hi Pete. Im still following along. Between work and life in general I havent been able to get any shop time for myself so I have to get my hobby fix vicariously through others. The engine is turning out beautifully, theres something about the symmetry I find very appealing. 
I just wanted to say thanks for posting your build. I can appreciate the extra time it takes. Setting up a part, stop, take a picture, put the camera back into the safe zone, finish the part and repeat. 

One day Ill be able to get back into the shop and make some chips but for now thank you.


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## apointofview

Bmac2 - thanks for the great post, it's funny to think I am doing something guys want to watch. I feel like a hack most of the time especially when I see the other projects on this site !! 

It is surprising how much thought it takes to do a build thread. It's turning into a test for my iPhone on how well it holds up to metal bits and cutting fluids etc !


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## apointofview

The steam control valve has been the part I have been not looking forward to from the time I first looked thru the drawings. I am not sure if I could have pulled off this part if it weren't for fcheslop's post back on post #20 that directed me to the drawings by Julius de Waal. Those drawings made the 31 hole locations much clearer, thanks again fcheslop !!!!!!

I started with a hunk of roundstock that was a bit big for the part but it was the closest stock I had around. I started with the face that needs to really smooth for the directional valve to rotate on and be fairly steam tight. From there it was a hole tapped for a shaft that the valve rides on and then into the mill to square it up. Back to the lathe to part off the block and then more mill work for the bottom relief. Once that was done came the intimidating job of all those holes. It's tough to drill into something I have so much time into !  I took my time and triple checked every dimension before sinking the drill bit into it. I made my own notes/drawings for each side just to keep my head clear on what I was doing. Looks like it came out like it should so I can quit holding my breath !!
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## apointofview

Here are the rest of the pictures

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It's gonna need some more smoothing of the faces where the steam pipe flanges mount to make them seal well but so far so good !

Pete


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## a41capt

Superb work Pete!  I hope you show it installed and running your newest boat when completed.

Thanks for all the great documentation.

John


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## apointofview

Thanks John !
Yep it will go in a boat when it's all done, but the boat doesn't exist yet. Not really sure what it will look like but it will be as small as I can make it and still be stable and pond worthy. 

I will have the boat build and maiden voyage in this thread too. 

Pete


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## ddmckee54

Is it going to be prop driven or a paddler?  Or is that another thing that is as of yet undecided.

don


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## apointofview

This one is going to be pushed around with a prop, not sure of size or pitch though. The plans say a 30mm diameter but I'll see what I can learn about those when I get to that bridge. 
Pete


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## apointofview

The disk that ports the steam is next. It wasn't to bad to make, it's just tedious setting up the rotary table and doing that means the vise gets dismounted which will require time to get it back to square when this operation is done.  The critical surface is the face and right now I don't have a way to tell if it's good enough. Guess I'll find out later and tweak it then if it doesn't seal well. 

Pete

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## apointofview

The disk is pressed against the ports with a spring that is covered with a cup shaped piece of brass. This is going to have to be tested later to see if there is enough spring tension to make it seal. I'm sure it could be calculated, but I'm not your guy for that much math !
Pete

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## Blogwitch

Pete,

After making many dozens of this type of control valve, maybe I could give you a couple of pointers that 'might' give you a leak free valve.

If possible, lap the two faces together so that you get a nice flat looking face. You will see after you start where all the high spots are, and you keep going until you have a complete dull surface on both parts. Don't try to use power tools, your fingers are more sensitive when the correct surface finish is reached.

The spring loaded part is one area that is affected by vibration and your inputted rotation, so I would suggest you make the centre spindle a little longer so that you can use a locking nut on top of the nut that is on there, or make two very thin nuts so that they can be fitted into the space you have. I always tried to finish it off by using an acorn nut to do the locking, it looks much neater than just two nuts and are very easy to make.

This shows the locknut required







And these are the acorn nuts, you make them to whatever length is required.






Just suggestions

John


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## apointofview

John, I would like to know the details of how you do the lapping process. What do I need to do it properly ?
As far as the nuts go it would be good to make something a bit fancier wouldn't it.
Pete


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## Blogwitch

Pete, 
Because it is ali and brass you do have to take it steady.

I would start off with a tiny bit of valve grinding paste, but the very fine one. I would use that until you very nearly get to a full lapped coverage on both parts.
Once that is done, wash everything to as clean as possible, you don't want that grit working it's way onto the faces again. Then you could use a tiny blob of brass polish and carry on lapping, eventually, it should be perfect, but if you want to be even better, use a bit of toothpaste for final lapping. Once it gets to that stage, after you have cleaned the faces off, put a drop of oil on there and you should be able to pick the engine up by suction alone.

The lapping technique is to get the top part (brass) between your fingers, and like spinning a top, with slight downwards pressure rock the brass part backwards and fwds about 90 degrees, after a minute or so, rotate the top by 90 and then repeat the 90deg fwds/bk. Keep doing this for about 2 full revolutions and then see what the faces on the parts look like. Continue until, as I said, nearly having a matte surface all over, then go to your finer stuff.

John


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## apointofview

Thanks John, that's a great explanation. I will look for the grinding paste and work on getting the surfaces right once I have all the parts made. I'm getting close to having something that will run on air so I want to drive on till it spins. I just have to make the plumbing fittings and bend up some little pipe and it should run. After that I'll back up and clean up my work. The plans call for a pretty fancy oiler, I have had good luck with the simple one I made for my other boat so I might just stick with simple.
Pete


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

What isn't there can't go wrong, so simple is usually the best way.

If running on air, then a mechanical means of getting oil into the moving parts is required, but like you are going to do, a basic displacement lubricator should be perfect.

John


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## apointofview

Thanks John, for this project simple is good. 

I worked on the fittings that are mounted to the steam lines that run from the control valve to the spool valves on the cylinders. The only brass I have is old beat up round stock. I think this stuff was used as drifts, I bought it at an industrial scrap yard. Anyway I carved all four of them all at one time on the mill and then moved to the lathe to drill the horizontal port and part off them off one at a time. Back over to the mill for the drilling of the mount holes and the vertical steam port. Next up will be the 4 fittings on the control valve. 
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## KBC

Hi Pete,
I seam to remember some where that you stated that you were just a beginner,
Some beginner !!!!
You are doing great work on that little machine and I for one have picked up some very good points and your pics are very informative..

Are you a trained machinist ?

Thanks for everything and the pics, I look forward to the engines first run.

George.


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## Cymro77

I have been seriously questioning your statement "only a beginner" this work is way and above any "Beginner".  Who you trying to confuse"


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## a41capt

Great work Pete!  After seeing your videos of your stern wheeler, my interest has been piqued and to that end, I've been doing some research on the stern wheelers that served the lower Colorado River (from Mexico to the Grand Canyon) at the turn of the 19th century.

As an Arizona guy, and hobbyist historian, I've always been fascinated with these ultra shallow draft boats that built the territory and supplied the miners and Army.  I even found the resting place of one of their boilers, although I'm not sure which one, along the ever changing riverbed.

Anyway, here are two pictures of the four boats that plied their trade along this treacherous piece of river, and perhaps someday I'll attempt to build an RC model to commemorate them.

John W.
Camp Verde, AZ USA







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## a41capt

Oops, it appears that the second picture didn't attach.  I'll try again!


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## apointofview

George and Cymro77, I guess I'm more of a hack than beginner anymore, I guess I feel that way because my tolerances  seem to come out a bit loose.  If I had to produce a part for someone else and they expected ( as they should ) for it to be per the drawing I wouldn't be able to do it consistently.  I see the precision that the machine shop at work that supports the turbine engine and landing gear overhauls and can't begin to imagine keeping up with those guys !! I usually have to adjust what I make to account for screwups in dimensions, sometimes its not much, and sometimes its a design change   This is only the third engine I have made, the first was this one http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=14137
then the sternwheeler engines http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=22191 and now this one.  The sternwheeler was a big jump and it took a long time but I learned a bunch doing it.  I honestly have no formal training but I do have lots and lots of hours in this forum and youtube learning from you guys that are generous enough to teach your skills to me in posts and videos.  Tubal Cain https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222 has an amazing collection of videos that cover just about anything I have had to do.  I have broken lots of tooling and even the mill has been down for repairs because of my lack of knowledge,  the scrap parts are learning opportunities and going by the size of that pile I have learned a lot  Anyway I really appreciate the compliments :thumbup:

John W - I'm glad I could inspire someone !  Those sure were neat machines and it's amazing to me what was designed and built back then with next to nothing for resources and tools.   Those guys knew what hard work really means.  That must have been fun to find wreckage of one of those machines, I have seen shots of a couple up in Alaska that have been discovered I envy you getting up close to that history.

Pete


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## KBC

Pete,

I have seen the video of your Stern Wheeler in action and thought at the time how realistic it was, I didn't know that you had posted a thread on the build of the engines for it and after having a quick look at some of the posts I am truly amazed at your workmanship considering that you are not a time served machinist.
I will give your thread some more views when I have the time to go thro' it all as what I have seen on the first few pages there are so many things that could help me in my machining efforts.
Thanks for taking the time to add the write up and the pics, I know it is a time consuming thing especially as the pics are so well presented.

Great work and it sure will inspire me to do better..
George.


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## apointofview

Thanks George ! I figure I gained lots of knowledge from guys willing to show how they did what they did, so why not try to help others with what little I know. 
Pete


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## apointofview

Four more fitting are behind me. I took a lot longer to get these made because I tried to make them from oddball scraps to try to be frugal with my brass. I dropped back and punted on the first attempt it was gettin ugly fast. The second attempt was with a small stub of roundstock and it was working out ok till I came to the point of milling down the mounting flange. I had not thought this one thru far enough and had left the part with no good way to hold it for the milling. I ended up clamping the thin 5mm boss for the tube in the vise. That made marks and forced me to make a lot of very lite cuts and after all that I removed too much anyway! So all that time was toast and I got out a good size hunk of stock and cut all four from it. I turned down the flange dimension first drilled the nbr 30 hole and cut the first tube boss. Then I removed the chuck from the lathe and clamped it up in my vise. I have no idea if this is done in the real world but it worked and allowed me to keep the brass true when it went back to the lathe. I cut down the mounting flange on the mill, which took a lot of passes, and then pulled the chuck and mounted it back on the lathe. Then one by one I cut the tube boss and parted off the part. The holes for the 2-56 cap screws were next. I just lined up the part in the vise by sticking it on a nbr 30 drill bit mounted in the chuck and clamping it in the vise where the bit held it. Two little holes in each one and this job was done. Lots of time for what looks like hardly anything. 
Pete

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Scrapped the part at this point

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Scrapped the part at this point 

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## apointofview

When it gets close to running it's hard to be patient! I still had to bend up the plumbing and solder it together.  I don't have a tubing bender that can bend the little 1/8 tube. I didn't want to buy one and really didn't want to make one either. The plans describe putting the pipe in a groove cut into a scrap piece of metal and then bend it around a piece of round stock. That technique worked well enough for me. If I had to do more than these four pipes I would get a real bender. I had to modify the groove for two of the pipes because they change direction so quickly that the first bend wouldn't fit in the holding groove.  Three pipes were scrapped because they didn't look good enough. They would have worked but I was being picky. I had to solder it up on the engine because the fit is so critical. I'm not using silver solder on the engine, just hard solder. It has held up fine on my other boat so it should do fine here. I rigged up a way to get air into it from my compressor. It took a little fiddling with the cam timing to get it to tick over but it wasn't long before I had a running engine !!!!!  It still has a good amount of finish work I have to clean up the solder joints and a few tight spots. Right now there are no seals anywhere and the pistons don't have their carbon rings so the engine will run differently once all those are taken care of. That was a good day !
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And here is the video 
https://youtu.be/zNoNKzi1REo

Pete


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## Herbiev

That's a great little runner. Well done and thanks for sharing.


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## bmac2

Great work Pete
The engine looks to runs great at low pressure (<15lbs) and for myself at least that would be comforting in an RC boat. I know this is a work engine and it looks great in the pictures but . . . . . . in the video you got it dirty 

Cant wait to see it in a boat:thumbup:


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## charlesfitton

Very nice work, and I'm sure you'll do a hull to match. 

Nice to see that engine running so slowly. Seems that so many run the guts out of miniature engines, and all you can see is a blurr.


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## scottyk

Looks great and run smooth!  nice work man.  Its actually bigger than I thought when I see it completed sitting in the vise.  Love it!  Hopefully that boiler can keep up with it, cant wait to see work going on that again


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## a41capt

That's fantastic Pete!  Such a small engine, and beautifully executed too.  I'm looking forward to the boat you put it in!

John


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## apointofview

Thanks everyone ! I am really happy with it !! 

It got really dirty really fast, I can't keep my other boat engine clean either, every run makes a mess just like the full scale engines I have seen ( the EPA wouldn't have liked the good ol days  ).  I have tried to make my engines run slow mostly because I like to see the movement, the side benefit is they don't use as much steam.  I have no idea how fast the engine will need to turn to push along a boat.  I have never dealt with a propeller.

I still have plenty to do but i am thinking i might hold off on the crank driven feedwater pump and and other misc items till I have a hull built.  With a boat built I can design around the space I will have for the little stuff like plumbing and the controls etc.  The boiler and engine are far enough along to get a good weight estimate for hull displacement.  I might rig up a temp steam line from my operational boiler and give it a spin, but it would have to be a short run since I don't have a way to lube the engine yet.
Might be awhile before the next update, I'm not going to log the boat build, but updates on the running gear will show up when they happen.

Thanks for following along
Pete


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## Cymro77

That is a very smooth , cool engine.  Beautiful work.  Can't wait to see it in a boat.  Would also love to see a boat build  - a particular interest of mine.


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## charlesfitton

[ I have no idea how fast the engine will need to turn to push along a boat.  I have never dealt with a propeller....QUOTE]

Make the diameter as big as your engine will turn and not pop through the water surface, and with a little less pitch than a paddle wheel...


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## apointofview

Ok thanks, then I guess the hull has to be next to know what prop will fit underwater. I think this engine has plenty of giddy-up to turn a model size prop.


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## Blogwitch

Having a few years under my belt running steam screw driven model boats I can make a suggestion for your prop.

A bit of info first.

With a steam plant, the engine, when in the water and loaded with a heavy pitch prop will be running rather slowly, a lot slower than bench runs, in fact, they are just nodding along where you can easily see all the movement on the engine. This is because a steam engine produces a lot of bottom end torque and the faster they go, the more inefficient and steam hungry they become, so you can load the engine fairly heavily, my commercial 10mm bore x 20mm stroke at 40psi would easily turn a 75mm propeller, but I would always suggest something from 55mm to 65mm, and I would suggest something that size for your engine. It should easily power a model of 48" length or more, depending on hull shape.

Now comes the bit you might find difficult to obtain. Whatever size propeller you go for, it should have a heavy pitch. Here in the UK we can buy up to 45 degree pitch steam props and I don't know if they sell them where you live. I used to use the Raboesch range of props because they were soldered up from individual pieces (be careful as they also make and sell cast props which are difficult to modify) and had a heavy pitch on the blades, and if you need a bit more or less pitch, they can easily be 'tweaked'. Go to the bottom of this page.

http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/a..._for_M4_Shaft_For_Model_Boat___Ship_Kits.html

I hope this helps a little


John


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## apointofview

John, that's help way more than just a little !!  Thanks for taking the time to give me a thorough explanation. I was looking at running the prop fast but didn't like the idea turning the engine so quickly. I like seeing the movement of the parts instead of a blur. Now don't get me wrong an engine spinning that quick is really neat when it's designed for that. This engine and the type of boat it will power seem to be more on the lazy day cruise type of machine. I will look local for a heavy pitch prop but I can always get one from across the pond if I need to. 
Pete


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## apointofview

Here is what I'm thinking the hull will look like. I may add an inch or two in width depending on how float testing on a foam mockup goes in the tub. I have a cutout of the boiler and a square the size of the engine sitting on the plans to see how they fit if you can see them. That's three inches of prop in front of the rudder. I think the bottom will be more rounded rather than a deep vee but that's all subject to change
Pete

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Pete


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## RonGinger

I think your plan view needs to be a bit fatter in the stern. Once you reach maximum beam keep that until  you get just past the seam that shows in the paper, then curve into a more elliptic shape. I would also flatten the profile view from the prop up and get a fuller stern.

Boats like this tend to squat into the water when under way and your thin stern section will likely sink. 

Here is a stern view of the steam launch I built a few years ago.


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## apointofview

Ok that is great feedback, that makes sense. I will change the top profile and post the revision.

That boat you made is amazing thanks for the picture. I had "model" in my head till I saw the sawhorses under it. Is it a wood hull ? What did you power it with ?  I would like to do something that big but my wallet won't let me &#128512;


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

You could most probably put another 50% on the length with that size of engine and prop.

This is one of my 10mm bore X 20mm stroke engines driving a nearly 60" boat along, your engine is much larger. In fact the chap took out his normal engine about the size of yours and put one of mine in, plenty of power and ran twice as long on one boiler filling.

Notice how small the actual engine is in the second picture down, people don't believe how much power these little engines have on such a small amount of steam.


















But of course, the choice is all yours.

A little later, when you come to install your plant, I can tell you exactly what to do to lower your fuel bill and get very long sailing times.


John


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## RonGinger

My boat was 17ft, a fiberglass hull with wood deck. It was powered by a Ray Hasbrouck #5- a 2 cylinder marine style engine. There is some info on it on my webpage http://pleasantcovemodels.com/stmbot.htm
I sold it after a few years- riding around with a wood stove in your boat  in July seems kind of dumb.


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## bmac2

Pete. I dont know if youve noticed but *Project of the Month*. Congratulations dude!:thumbup:


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## apointofview

John,
You actually have me a bit on motor size mine is a 10mm bore like yours but a 12mm stroke so you should have me a bit on power. The Cross  head gear and valves make the engine physically larger but I'd loose in a drag race !
I'm sure I could go bigger but my goal is to get a small as I can. This boat will look a bit like someone dropped a big block in a yugo ! Well mabey not that bad but I want a light easy to launch and recover boat. I also am keeping in mind being able to pack it up and ship it as checked luggage to go to cabin fever with it. That last idea is a bit scary!!
RonGinger - that's a funny statement! Never thought about that being uncomfortable, maybe in Alaska that wouldn't be so bad!!


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## apointofview

bmac2,
I had not seen that !!!!!   Thanks for letting me know, I really am in shock.....WOW


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

Very sorry, I must have misread your post somewhere as I thought it was 20mm bore.

Your 10 X 12 makes all the difference as it is almost a 'square' engine, needing to run at slightly higher revs to produce it's power. I would then suggest something like a 50mm 3blade prop.

This was my fully planked hull based on the Krick Victoria model, 46.5" long and powered by a 10mm X 10mm twin oscillator. This is after strip down for restoration after nearly 10 years sailing almost every weekend, the hull went to a friend about a week after this shot was taken. I couldn't manage to launch and retrieve them by myself any more, so I gave up and concentrated on my workshop instead.
Notice the shape of the rear end, rather bulky, as suggested by Ron above.






Here it is on the water, even with a small square engine driving a 3 blade 50mm prop running on about 20 psi of steam, it had more than enough power.







So yours could easily power something like this.


John


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## apointofview

No problem John, I'm figuring there will be some propeller tweaking before it's all said and done. I rough cut a hunk of foam to see how much weight my design will support. Turns out it's bigger than I want it was supporting 20lbs of weight and wasn't really to the correct waterline. I don't want to go over 15 lbs, really I'd like closer to 10. My boiler is around 4 lbs and the engine I a little under a pound so that gives me 5 to 10 pounds for the hull rc gear, ballast and consumables. I shortened the boat up  by around 4 inches and cut down on the height. I thinks is going to look good enough, folks should be able to recognize that it's a boat !  The stern of the boat will not be as high and thin as the foam came out. I was just free handing the hotwire so it's a bit off. I plan on planking the hull lapstrake style might regret it but I'll give it a shot. 
Pete
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## almarghi

Just amazing!
All of it


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## apointofview

Thanks it's a lot of fun trying new stuff. 
A little more progress, I mounted all the forms and the keel to my model airplane wing jig that I have had for a long time. It took a long time to get everything lined up correctly. I ended up using my laser level to line up the forms. I wanted to be able to move the boat around while building so mounting the form to my bench wouldn't work for me. I had to mill a 1/16 groove on both sides of the keel to allow the first plank called the garboard to slip between the keel and the center board called a hog plank ( I think ) which was glued in place after the grooves were cut.  Now I have to layout where the laps will sit. 
Pete
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## Herbiev

Looking great so far. Love the clear pictures.


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## Cymro77

Rather exotic appearing at this point!  Cannot wait to see the end result.


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## apointofview

Thanks guys
There is a lot to this clinker style boat building. Now I have to determine how big to make the planks and how to arrange them. I went with what I have seen guys do to full scale boats on the internet. They use strips of wood called battens to lay out the edges of the planking. I took thin strips of spruce and did the same. The fantail of my boat will be carved out of a larger block and attached to the stern. I can't get my head around how to make it look right now so after its planked, a float test will show me how she sits in the water and I'll figure the back of the boat then.  It doesn't support anything it's just for looks. I'm sure it will cause problems doing it this way but I'm no sailor so this is all new. 
Pete
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## fcheslop

Looking very nice 
This maybe of some help to any budding builders 
http://www.selway-fisher.com/clinker_ply.htm
cheers


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## apointofview

That is a great description of the process, its a lot tougher than I thought it would be now that I am cutting wood.  When I started this I thought making something full scale would be fun too.  Well those thoughts are gone now. Its tough enough to shape the 1/16 thick basswood, I can't imagine dealing with real lumber and pulling off the kinds of fit and finish that is required to keep water out !!  My hat is off to all those who have built boats like this !!!


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## apointofview

Planking has begun, it's tedious and I might get the hang of it by the time I have done all 16. It's not perfect but as I learn the planks closer to the top of the boat should look pretty reasonable. The planks that will be under water have some spacing variations but it is symmetrical and this is just for fun not a museum. 
I have to make a paper template first by laying it on the forms and then transferring the marks made earlier on the forms.  I cut the paper and then check it before cutting wood. Each pair of planks are different and not even close to straight. I am steaming the wood in a makeshift aluminum foil box that I pump steam into from a cheap steam cleaner. If the wood was any thicker I don't think the little cleaner would be enough. I am just glueing them into place with superglue because I am planning to paint the hull. If I were staining it I would have to do something else. 
Pete
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## deeferdog

I have made two planked boat kits over the years and my first effort didn't look as good as yours. Planks look very straight. Great job.


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## apointofview

Problem fixed


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## apointofview

I got the last planking done on the hull !! I pulled the boat off the forms, and it came off without any problems. I see why boats are built like this. It is really light and rigid at this point and I haven't put in the rest of the structure that is usually in these boats. I took the boat into my bath tub to see how it sits in the water and how much weight it will hold. To keep the water out I wrapped a trash bag around the wood and then marked the waterline on the plastic. It looks like it will take 10lbs to sink the hull low enough for the propeller and 14lbs is about as much as it will hold without takin on water with small waves. I used a bunch of canned goods to load up the hull and then measured the cans afterwards. The engine is one pound and the boiler is four so I have plenty of room for the rest of the gear. I still have to glue up all the seams because the forms limited access to the planks, they are basically tacked right now. Long way to go but progress is being made. It won't win any awards but it won't sink either !! ( well I shouldn't say that, the folks that built the titanic said something similar and that didn't go so well )

Hope this still interesting to some folks, it will be a little while before the engine makes another appearance in this thread on an engine forum.  I can stop the updates till metal is beaten into submission if that would be more appropriate for this forum. 
Pete

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## Herbiev

Wow. It's really starting to take shape.


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## Cogsy

Looking really good. I vote for you to keep posting - it's interesting to watch and it's being powered by a home built engine so it fits the forum I think.


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## Cymro77

Keep it coming.  I am enjoying since this is on my bucket list.
DW


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## apointofview

Ok great !
So here is what I did today. I boiled little strips of wood to form them into the ribs of the hull.  I guess spruce isn't the wood of choice for bending but it's what I had on hand. It kinked and split a little here and there but with a little distance it doesn't show up and I don't think they are all that necessary for structural strength at this size of boat. They look neat though. Once they dry out I'll glue them in and possibly smooth out the little kinks with a bit of filler.....maybe. I guess after that I need to work out the fantail of boat. 
Pete

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## Blogwitch

Pete,

If you are wanting to bend spruce, just soak it a little while in household ammonia and you will be able to tie it in knots as it becomes so supple, but firms up when dried out.

John


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## apointofview

Really ? I might try that because these are a bit lumpy lookin. About how long does it need to soak ?


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## Blogwitch

I used a piece of block ended plastic pipe to soak mine in, less liquid used for the length required.

You can soak overnight, it shouldn't come to any harm, but I have had  very good results with 1/4" x 1/8" strip after an hour, depending on the  dilution, I used to make mine 2 parts water to 1 part ammonia, giving a  rather strong mix. A few fellow modellers used a window cleaning  product that contained ammonia, and they said they had good results, but  the mix must have been very dilute.
They reckon it worked better with a heat gun as you are bending it, but I  have never tried it, maybe they had to do it that way because of the  low dilution.

Don't breathe in the fumes BTW, better to do it outside as well.


John


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## apointofview

I went and got some ammonia and put new strips in a Tupperware container, a pipe like you suggested would be the better way to go. I'll let it go overnight at least and then try it. You aren't kidding about the fumes, I was out in the garage and it was still bad. The wife would have killed me if I poured that inside like I was first gonna do !


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## Cogsy

I'm not sure what the difference is, but guys in my old aero club used 'cloudy ammonia' for the same thing. Rather than individual pieces it was used (I think sprayed over) fully constructed wings which were then slightly twisted and pinned until they dried to shape. From memory the carefully applied twist was to ensure the wing tip would stall before the root of the wing and make the flight characteristics inherently safer.


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## apointofview

I used to mess with r/c planes too and I had to soak a wing in the bathtub once to fix a warp I had accidentally built into it. &#128563;
Well I tried the ammonia and yep it did seem to make the wood softer, but I guess the wood I have is fairly low grade for bending. It still split easily and kinked here and there. So I swapped out the uglier of the ribs with the ammonia versions and went with the best of an ugly litter. All in all for a goof off scale boat it will be fine.   So I have the ribs done and work on the stern of the boat is about done. I should have planed the stern when doing the rest of the boat because it's  tough blending the add on pieces.  Guess that's when planing ahead comes in handy. 
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I got side tracked for a bit by a hunk of metal that the mail man brought me ! ( another non engine item )
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It's an 80% AR15 lower forging. A bit of carving and it's complete. It wasn't as tough as I expected but I don't have any trigger parts to prove I got it right either &#128512;. The directions for the cuts were about as lame as they come. The internet came to the rescue and provided me with all the dimensions I needed. Maybe the tolerances aren't at critical as I think if those directions work for some folks.  
Pete


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## a41capt

80% lowers are quite fun, and you're right, the critical dimensions include the distance between the takedown pins and the deck height, as well as the magazine well and releases.  Although I have seen folks Dick up the fire control group position! &#128580;

For your next lower, try a 0% and test your set up and order of operation skills!  The real test is the 0% upper...

Nice work as usual Pete!  As a hobby gunsmith and machinist, I'm enjoying the hell outta your boat build.

John W.
Camp Verde, AZ


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## dnalot

Hi

Nice looking hull. And I should know, I owned and operated a boat building company for 30 years before retiring. I do some woodworking with veneers. It is dry as a bone, wrinkled and warped when I get it. To make the ultra thin wood workable without splitting I soak the part in Glycerin,water,alcohol mix.

3 parts water 1 part glycerin 1 part alcohol. With softer woods I add 1/4 part yellow glue. For thicker material, if the part is to be bent a considerable amount, after soaking place part in hot box to steam heat the part before forming. For small parts like your ribs a heat gun will work. 

White Oak (not red) bends well but Ash is better. 

Mark T


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## apointofview

John W - Thanks !! You peaked my curiosity and I looked up milling 0 uppers and a 0 lowers.  Thats a good bit more work !!   Someday maybe but not for now I'm not sure I have the tooling and skills to get it done.  It would be really cool to pull something like that off.

Mark T - Thanks that's really great of you to say !!  I Looked at a lot of hulls on the internet to end up where I am at.  I hope it floats well !

So I am ordering a prop made by Raboesch as John suggested. Looks like I need a 75mm dia prop per the engine drawings and what will fit. This is the one that sounds right, the 177-26 A - Type prop. 
http://www.loyalhannadockyard.com/PROPS.htm
Any advise ?

I want the prop so I can figure out what kind of drive shaft I have to drill for which helps set the engine location.

Thanks
Pete


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## Blogwitch

Hi Pete,

That prop should be OK as if needed (engine runs too fast) the blades can be bent to a more coarse pitch.

They do actually make designated steam props but I think they are all too large for your model and they cost a lot more.


John


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## apointofview

Ok good now if I can get one of the few American suppliers to answer my calls I will get one one the way. 

I drilled the hole for the prop shaft which will be 3/16" riding in a snuffing tube that is 1/4". The problem that has come up is the shaft sits higher than the engine where it enters the hull. I know I could raise up the engine to align the shaft, but I have to keep everything as low as possible to keep the center of gravity low. The big heavy copper boiler sits high enough to make the boat a bit tippy. I may have to put lead in the belly or add to the bottom of the keel with lead to make the boat more stable. So it looks like a driveshaft with a couple of u joints is going to be needed. I could cheat and use a spare shaft I have for my tmaxx truck, but it's plastic and I didn't make it. Brass would be pretty, I would use the  pins and c clips from the tmaxx and just replace the plastic with brass. I don't need it to be able to collapse so simple stainless shafts between the joints will work.
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You can see how high off the belly the engine would have to be raised

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This is the amount of miss alignment I have. The brass is the snuffing tube and a 3/16 shaft will ride in it. 

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This is the general idea of what I need to do. My shaft will be a bit shorter just to shift the engine aft

Pete


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## Ghosty

Pete,
Use a couple of engine bearers to raise the engine to be inline with the prop shaft, will also give more strength to the hull for mounting the engine to.

Cheers
Andrew


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## apointofview

Oh and just a silly 80% AR update - everything fits !!! No warranty work needed. &#128512;
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## apointofview

Andrew, that would be the better way except I want to keep the engine weight as low in the hull as possible. The boat seems tippy in the test floats because of the weight of the boiler.  Since I went the vertical boiler route it puts a lot of weight high up on the boat. If I had gone the horizontal boiler way raising the engine would be the way to go. 
Pete


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

What Andrew said actually makes sense.

You might find that lots of ballast might be required to get the hull to its waterline (can't say designed waterline because you worked it out yourself), but even so, getting a good waterline is one of the first things you need to do, without it you could end up with a very unstable boat.

I made a 4ft long Clyde puffer, and even with a 100 amp hour battery in it, it was still too top heavy. I eventually put in internally sealed ballast tanks that allowed the boat to sink further, they contained another 5gallons of water weighing 50 pounds.

The chalk marks on the outside of the hull shows the rough position where the tanks were inside.








You might have to resort to having a couple of large pop bottles full of water inside to achieve your waterline.


John


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## IceFyre13th

apointofview said:


> This is the amount of miss alignment I have. The brass is the snuffing tube and a 3/16 shaft will ride in it.
> 
> Pete



I suggest what is known as a "Flex Shaft"

http://1nitrorc.com/sqdrv.htm


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## apointofview

I appreciate the ideas, and yep it is what I should do. The engine will raise up some because it has been pointed out that this little engine will coat the belly with oil and water as it runs so a catch pan would be wise.  It will mount to something so with all that it may be almost lined up.  Silly thing is I have the universal setup in my head so for now I am just going to use the tmaxx shaft and then if I like the shaft and hate the plastic I will make a brass version.  My next chunk of time is going to be in a prop.  I got a quote for the prop and its going to be 40$ so I get to learn how to make the scrap under my bench into a propeller.  I found this site - http://members.dodo.com.au/~sjbatche/making_propellers.htm  I like the jig he made so that's what I will do.  
I did float the hull again and threw lead car wheel weights in till I hit the shallowest I could go just submerging the prop under the surface and the stability got a lot better.  I still have a inch or two to play with for waterline so even more lead can be tossed in.  I might put a thick hunk of metal on the bottom for the keel too to protect the wood and  that should help.
Pete


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

Please try to use removable ballast, something like I suggested. Put boat into water and then add heavy ballast, reverse, for boat removal.

There is nothing worse than trying to lift a very heavy boat in and out of the water, just one slip on a muddy bank soon teaches what you need to do. 
DAMHIK as the boat I showed above weighed well over 100 lbs when fully loaded with water in the ballast tanks, and who forgot to drain them before trying to lift it out of the water. 
It was autumn as well and the water was freezing and very very wet.

John


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## apointofview

Ok, does your boat flood those tanks from the water its sitting in ?


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## Blogwitch

Yes, just open two taps and the tanks fill up from holes in the bottom of the hull once the main battery has been put in, remove battery, open taps and the hull automatically rises and empties it's tanks ready for lifting out of the water.

John


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## apointofview

John - Ok I will remember that. 

So work is going well on the prop I think. I am not looking for every last bit of thrust from the blades so researching the hydrodynamics of a blade are not on my list of things to do. This just has to putt around on a little pond and not fall apart. I drew out the shape I wanted and then cut out template for the metal. Tin snips cut the rough shape and then I sanded them to the lines traced out on the brass. To get the curve I used a deep well socket and a block of wood cut to the same shape. My vise smashed the two together and out came a curved blade. I wanted to remove a little pitch at the tips so I clamped up the root of the blade and then twisted the tip with another bit of wood that had a curved cut in it to hold the blade. Last was to file the root to conform to the hub which will be around a quarter inch round. Just for fun I superglued the blades together and spun the prop up in my cordless drill in a sink full of water. It seems to move the water pretty well.  You can sort of see the spinning blades in the sink and the water pushing up the sides. I tried to spin it about what I expect the engine to turn but it's hard to know that. 
Pete
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## apointofview

Here is what it looks like on the hull. Next I need to make a jig to hold the blades for soldering to a hub. 
Pete
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## Blogwitch

Only one problem Pete, I think you have the blades the wrong way around, the straight edges should be going forwards, other than that, looks to be a good prop.
BTW, it may mean you will have to make new blades to keep the prop turning in the same direction.

How do I know this?

I used to make props and refurbish and repair variable pitch props and modify blade shapes for certain people in the model boat fraternity. They are the only blade shapes that are the same front and back as they are designed to go fwds and back with the engine running in one direction only. All normal props have a leading and trailing edge.






This is showing having to make a full new set of blade mountings and blades after one blade was lost in the water. It had to be done this way so that all the blades ran in the same space otherwise maybe one blade was trying to pull while the others were trying to push.
It is a shame I gave away all my prop jigs when I gave up model boating, 
But this might help.

http://members.dodo.com.au/~sjbatche/making_propellers.htm

John


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## apointofview

John, I hope I didn't screw it up but it's always a possibility!  Here is the image I used as a pattern for my prop.  It's made by Raboesch. Did I look at it wrong ? 
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It came from this web site
http://www.maritime-models.co.uk/cg...=4-blade-ship-boat-props.html#aRAB_2d147_2d27


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## apointofview

Thanks for the link for the prop jig. That will be what I use to set up mine.   It's going to be out of wood just because I have plenty if it around and I'm only making one prop so burning it up will be ok &#128512;


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## Blogwitch

I am so sorry that I sent you on a wild goose chase, it now looks like your prop is correct.

We used to call that type of straight back blades 'cleaver' type props, originally they were designed to help eradicate cavitation and aeration in props that were running close to or even piercing the surface of the water. It now seems, that since my time, this type of blade has become the normal sort of blade shape.

BTW, these are about the best props you can buy, lost wax cast in bronze or stainless, fully balanced and polished. These were only just starting when I gave up model steam boats, but even then, if you were willing to wait while they were made and pay the money, they were definitely worth waiting a few weeks for.

http://www.prop-shop.co.uk/products.php?cat=steam-scale

The ones I used to make and buy from Raboesch were straight fronted.

A sign of modern times I suppose.

John


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## apointofview

John,
Not a goose chase at all.  Its nice to have ya lookin out for me.  It would be bad if you were silent and I made a bad prop.  I didn't pick this shape for any other reason than I found a good picture of it and its a respected company that designed it.   I'm sure theirs is better but this one should move the boat if the sink test was any indication.  I wish I had seen the one you pointed before I made these blades, because its description sounds like its made for just my boat.
Pete


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## apointofview

I worked on a jig for soldering up the prop. I used metal for the base but the rest is wood. I will see if it will hold up long enough to get this one prop in. 
Metal work is finally making an appearance again on this machining web site. !!  I turned a hub out of brass. The shaft will have an 8/32 threaded end so I drilled and tapped the hub to mount to the shaft. Next is trying to find a way to prove the blades are all exactly set the same.  

While I had the blades loose I messed with their profile to more resemble the prop John showed me. It looked more like what would be expected on a boat like this. I might have gotten them closer to that look what do you think ?

Pete
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## Blogwitch

That looks very nice indeed Pete, as good as I ever made.

In fact, with steam, you could just use square or triangular flat plates because the engines run so slowly when loaded, and as long as the water gets pushed whatever way that is required, it will do. In fact, variable pitch props normally have flattish regular shaped blades, both fwds/bkwds with a tiny amount of curve.

John


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## apointofview

Success ! The wood jig held up but just barely, the solder hardened up just in time before the wood turned to ash. If I was doing it again I would make the dowels out of metal. I cut the driveshaft and mounted the prop on it and then put it on my balancer and it didn't need any adjustments, it's plenty close enough especially for the rpm range it will run. A bit of polishing and it came out pretty good and it saved me $40+ !!
Pete
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## apointofview

I mounted the prop shaft tube to the hull and then used a spare drive shaft from a tmaxx r/c truck to connect the prop shaft to the engine crank. I might fabricate a shaft out of brass some time later in but for now this is smooth and quiet and much stronger than it needs to be. The other benefit is it has a splined slip joint which allows for the engine to be disconnected really easily from the prop shaft. I have no idea how to make a joint like that. I can picture the  male part of the joint but the female side is beyond me, anyone made something like that with manual machines ?

Now I need to get back to the boiler base and burner and finish them up. Once the boiler is done plumbing can begin. I am going to wait on the water pump stuff until I can run the engine off the boiler and get an idea of how much water it will use. 
Pete
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## Cogsy

Disclaimer - I've never made one, so just my thoughts. If you can machine the male spline (which shouldn't be overly difficult considering you're making both halves) you could use it as a broach of sorts, especially if you make the internal part as a thin-ish insert of something soft like aluminium. If broaching a round hole into a spline is a bit much, you could always cast a rough pattern in aluminium so the broaching is more of a clean-up operation. For a small part like that you wouldn't need a furnace at all, just a blowtorch, and a lost foam pattern in dry sand would probably do the trick.

Otherwise, seeing as you're making both halves, why not simplify to a square drive for ease of broaching? There's load of info on broaching square holes with homemade tools online.


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

The simpler you can make a coupling the better, what isn't there can't go wrong.

This is the type we used to use all the time. I used hollow Redthane tubing designed for making transmission belts, as it seemed to last forever, but I have also used thick walled silicone tubing if I required a rather larger offset similar to yours. Up to 3" long presents no problems. I have also used solid rubber where I made cups for the rubber to fit into, then pinned it through to hold things in place, but modern day adhesives should work well.

This article shows exactly what I mean. From the same place I showed you the propeller jig.

http://stevesmodelshipshed.com/dir/?page_id=442


John

PS. Don't forget to fit a stop collar on the inboard end of your propshaft, as when you put the engine in reverse it will try to pull the shaft out of it's tube as you have a sliding coupling.


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## apointofview

Thanks John that coupling is a simple setup. Still not shire where I will end up with the shaft.  I plan on putting a sleeve on the dry side of the shaft with a bit of delrin to give a slippery surface to bear on to stop any fire and aft movement. 

Got a bit of time this weekend to work on the boat. I worked on a base to the  boiler. I made a holder for the jet I scavenged from a backpack stove. I am also using the burner and gas valve from the same. With a bit of fiddling with the air holes I was able to get a nice flame that burns fine in the enclosed base. Looks like I don't need secondary air to keep it lit. I was able to raise 1 bar of pressure in 4.5 min from a cold uninsulated boiler.  It keeps climbing fast but I didn't go much further since I don't have any safety valves made yet. 

I also started work on mounting the engine and boiler in the hull. I bent up a drip pan to catch the drippings from the equipment. I didn't want to put holes in the pan so the support for the machinery will come from outside the pan. I took an idea from the cheap Chinese bookshelf I put together recently. I don't have any luck threading wood for these tiny fasteners. I took some 3/16 brass rod and drilled it for the 4-40 screws I want to use to hold the engine mount to the hull. I drilled the wood mount in the boat for the brass "nut" and then drilled down to match up to the threaded hole. Now the brass nut will have a hard time being pulled out of the wood it's in. 
Hopefully the pictures will explain it better than my writing skills. 

Pete
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## apointofview

I came up with a mount for the boiler. I went with wood so it wouldn't become a heat sink. It holds the boiler just a little above the drip pan for the same reason. 

Not sure where to go now. I may get the engine plumbed in and run it to see how fast it uses water. That would give me an idea on how much H2O I need to carry, so I can build water tanks. If I do that I need a water gauge on the boiler. 

Pete

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## Blogwitch

Pete,

Keep things simple.

From my own and many other peoples' experiences, unless you are doing a 24 hour marathon, look to have a run of around 20 minutes.

Some people try to put all sorts of junk on their steam plants, and most never get to use those expensive bits, gas attenuator valves, auto water top up either electric or mechanical, water tanks etc etc, especially if you will be using a displacement lubricator. All they are are show off bits for people with more money than sense. Some people have it all controlled by a computer, they may as well fit an electric motor as propulsion and a smoke unit to simulate steam.

After 15 to 20 minutes good sailing, you will be ready for a break and to top up the lubricator and give the engine a bit of a breather and a drop of oil on the outside.

John


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## apointofview

I agree completely.  I dont want to run longer than that because something always seems to need attention by then. 
 That is one of the big driving forces on this boat is ' simple ' My big sternwheeler is not even close to simple, and today proved it.  I hauled it out to the pond which is no easy task.  The engine driven water pump wasnt hooked up ( forgot after the last cleanup session ) so I kept having water level problems till I finally figured out what I screwed up.  Since everything is hidden by the superstructure spotting problems is tough.  Next was one of the burners was turned up too high which temporarily warped the outer shell of the boiler box enough that the access door to light the burner opened while on the pond underway.  Well that set up a small blowtorch that cooked a bit of the boat and actually lowered my steam pressure.  While on the water waiting for pressure to build one of the cylinders filled with water and locked the system up.  I finally tried opening the cylinder drains and off she went.  Needless to say it was a bit of a frustrating day, but still  good day since I was on the water under steam.  I am looking forward to an easy access, easy lift boat. Now my big boat has a bit more realistic look since its has had a bit of a fire 
Pete


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## apointofview

On the quest to test the water consumption of my engine system I am getting the boiler ready. The water level glass is next up. I used a standard  90 degree 1/8 npt male to 1/4 compression fitting for the lower fitting. My borosilicate tube is 6mm when I put a viton o-ring on the glass and cut down the compression nut it holds well and doesn't leak. The upper fitting had to be something else because I can't thread the fitting in and insert the glass at the same time. I poked around the internet for awhile and ended up going with a banjo fitting. That allows the glass to be sandwiched between the two fittings and then secure the banjo bolt. 

I started with the banjo part. I matched the size of the boiler bushing diameter. I cut a commercial compression union into two parts.  I cut a flat spot on the banjo to match the position of the lower fitting. Next I silver soldered the two together and drilled the hole thru the fitting. The bolt was fairly straightforward, I just had to fiddle with the depth of cutting the NPT threads till the bolt snugged up the banjo well.  I wish I had hex stock to skip cutting the flats for the head. I am going to try some form of gasket to seal it all up first. If that doesn't work I'll do a little cutting to accommodate o-rings at each end. 
Pete
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## apointofview

I mounted up the water level gauge and fired up the boiler with a temporary hookup for the engine to see roughly how much water this system is going to use. The run went fine and here is a video - [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4dW7hffTxg[/ame] 
Next item to make is the displacement lubricator. I put fins on this one to try to cool the steam in the lubricator a little bit and it looked nice. I didnt put a drain in this one just to make it simpler, I just plan on sucking out the water and oil with a syringe. I soldered it into the feed pipe just before the engine selector valve. I put a superheater ( or dryer with this low heat ) at the top of the boiler under the funnel. I used my home made ring roller to make the spiral shape. On my sternwheeler the superheater I put on it made a big difference in performance but it is about 6ft of tubing coiled right above the burners and the copper glows over the propane flames. That steam gets so hot it melted all the hard solder joints in the supply lines several feet downstream of the boiler. They all had to be re-soldered with 45% silver to hold together. This one wont be that effective but it should help dry out the steam. Now I have to get some brass sheet to make the water tanks and condensation/oil trap tank. To get 15 to 20min of run time I will need a little more water than the boiler can carry. It used all it had in about 8 - 10 min and that seems a little short and it also meant getting the boiler pretty low on water which I dont want to do.
Pete
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## apointofview

I have found that working with thin brass sheet is a pleasure. It cuts easy bends nice and hard soldering the stuff together is not hard at all. I haven't ever tried to build something like the water tanks I need on this boat. I don't have a lot of space so I went with a sort of saddle tank setup. The two tanks will be connected with a pipe that should act as a manifold to supply water to the pump that doesn't exist yet. I cut a few bits of cardboard to get an idea of what they would look like. Without being real precise I called the template good and started cutting metal. A few bends and I had a good shaped tank. I soldered it up and then went to fit it in the hull and what do you know.....it didn't fit!!  Not sure how I missed it but the cylinders of the engine were in the way. I guess the engine wasn't bolted down so it was free to move out of the way and I didn't catch the movement. Needless to say I didn't want to start over so I cut a relief into the tank to clear the engine. I put a fill port on that is the same setup as the oiler. I just have to make sure not to get the caps mixed up. Oil in the boiler water is a no no. I have to make one more still but I am happy with this one. I'm not sure if I will leave it as is or paint it.
Pete
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## apointofview

So one tank on one side looks out of balance and that means I need a second tank and the plumbing to connect them.
The second tank ( port side I think ) will just have a vent stack.  I ran a copper tube from one tank to the other and then tee'd off of that line to feed the future pump.  My leak checks showed me of a potential problem.  The line connecting the tanks is just a 3/16 pipe, it is really slow transferring water from the starboard tank to the port tank during filling.  Really that will just require a bit of patience on my part, but I wondered if the two tanks will drain evenly as the pump pulls water from them.  It might be fine seeing as it should take 15 min to use the tanks water supply.  That's quite a while so I'll just keep what I have and modify it later if it proves troublesome.  I also added water level sight tubes on both tanks to see what they are doing and maybe be able to spot the level as it chugs past me on the pond.
Pete


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## apointofview

Oops I forgot the pictures !
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Full of water leak checking
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Pete


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## apointofview

Work continues, but slowly. I need a condensation/oil trap on the boat. In the tub I found this little boat is sensitive to right and left balance. I don't want the boat to lean more and more as it runs so I went with something on the centerline. I want it close to the engine exhaust which put  it over the driveshaft. Last requirement was as low a CG as possible so the tank wraps around the shaft. This was a little tedious to build but it looks like it will work. I'm hoping that dumping the exhaust at the center of the tank will fill it up reasonably evenly. I have started plumbing it in but there will be a long pause due to a upcoming vacation. 

Anyone know of steam engine stuff to see in Italy &#127470;&#127481; ? I might be able to talk my wife into a side trip while we are over there. 

Pete
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## Blogwitch

Pete,

Not nitpicking at all but just a safety question.

Are ALL you boiler fittings made of brass or bronze.

The reason I ask is because many years ago (about 20) I purchased a very well known copper boiler and engine combination. I was in hospital at the time and to pass the long time I was in there, they allowed me to use the visitors lounge to make a model steam boat, but I wasn't allowed to bring my lathe and mill in there to make the bits for the engine.

To cut a long story short, after about 5 years sailing, I had a boiler fitting blow out.

It turned out that they had used brass for the boiler fittings, and they had de-zinced and basically the threads disappeared into a mass of 'dust'.

All I could do was to do massive surgery on the boiler and replace everything that was brass with bronze, and that boiler, even this old now, could be used tomorrow in complete safety.I used that boiler without any further trouble for at least another 10 years.

There are brasses that you can use that resist de-zincifying, but it is a bit hard to find.

No problems if you have used bronze for everything connected to the boiler.


John


http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=52890


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## apointofview

I'm glad your looking out for me. Getting hurt is not a fun part of life !!
The boiler itself is all copper silver soldered with 45% silver ( not cheap ) that is bushed with 544 high strength bearing bronze from here https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-bronze-alloy-rods/=17csg4w
After the bushings I went brass for the rest of the system.  From what I have read that should be safe correct ?
Pete


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## Blogwitch

Hi Pete,

It is a debatable issue, some people think it is safe to use brass for fittings above the boiler waterline, safety vlaves, filler caps, steam take offs etc, and others think that everything connected to the boiler should be bronze. I went the way of least argument and fitted everything in bronze.

It is assumed the problem is a combination of galvanic action (two dissimilar metals, or sometimes three if copper crush washers are used) and the dezincification of any brass components.

We are a bit of a nanny state here in the UK when it comes to model steam boiler regulations, especially if you make your own boilers. They suggest having the boiler inspected by a 'qualified' person at each major stage of assembly, so even the insides get a good going over before it is permanently hidden, and only certified materials are used, especially the outer and inner tubes and end plates, plus boiler bushes. 
But on the other hand, as far as I know, up until recently, for small boilers they don't require this checking if they use the 3 bar/litre rule, so if you have a boiler that is only 1/2 litre capacity, it can have a maximum working pressure of 6 bar (approx 85 - 90 psi), or a 1 litre boiler can only have a maximum working pressure of 3 bar (approx 45 psi).

All this varies from country to country or even state to state, so to keep within the law, that needs to be checked on.

I won't go into the insurance cover thing with running these small steam engines, and not only steam, all model engines when run in public, as I am sure some members would be offended by the rules and regulations that are required.

The choice is purely yours, I was just trying to bring certain things to the attention of not only yourself Pete, but other people as well.


John


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## fcheslop

Coming on nicely
I believe the bar/litre rule is now defunct just to add more confusion for uk boiler builders 

View attachment Update on Boiler Testing March 2013.pdf


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## Blogwitch

Thanks for the update F.

From the looks of those rules, it seems that the elfin safety brigade have managed to get home shop steam builders eradicated unless you belong to an engineering club who have boiler testing facilities.

If it was left to those Victorian thinking people who come up with all these rules and regulations, we will soon be needing annual inspection of all our machines and tooling to make sure no one cuts a finger. There will be no room for movement and free thinking soon. I can't wait to get my shop eventually moved to another country.

Looks like my boilers are all destined for the bin then.

John


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## fcheslop

Hi John, another sign of the times.
cheers
frazer


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## apointofview

The safety weenies are running the show. Where I work has a safety department that is growing fast. It used to be just steel toe boots but the introduction of the yellow vest was the beginning of the end. Now there are bump caps, cut resistant gloves, safety glasses and ear muffs. Rumor has it they were spotted weighing tool boxes to see if we are lifting too much......it's nuts. Personal responsibility for hurting yourself and learning from it are out the window. Now there is paperwork to tell me a razor blade is sharp !!!!!

At least my boats are just for me and there are no people around that have any idea how it even works let alone tell me it needs an annual inspection or some other insurance/ litigation driven rule. Cell phones help too, some of the folks around never see the boat, they are updating their Facebook status &#128512;


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## Ghosty

Ah yes OH&S what a joke. had to use two people to lift a tire on a 4X4 because it weighed more than 15 Kgs. Don't forget the paper cuts or eye strain that you could get while reading all the safety paperwork.

Cheers
Andrew


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## fcheslop

Oh the safety weenies do indeed run the show a few years past I had to do a two week safety induction for a nuclear power stations so I could go into the canteen to fix a coffee machine then shortly after that did a petro chem course to fix coffee machines in garage forecourts . After 40 plus years working in engineering Iv given up and hung my safety boots up thats unless Im in the shop you understand 
One thing for certain is that I will always make and sail toy steam boats and hot air engines that is until my toes curl up  or they lock me up 
I can fully understand for the need for some form of regulations as they are pressure vessels but the world seems to have gone a wee bit crazy at least they seem to have overlooked the good old mono tube boilers for now
Sorry for been a bit of topic and wish you good luck with youre build
kind regards
frazer


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## mrputz1

when bending 1/8 inch end caps did you allow for a radius on the cap ? if so how much under size where the wooden plates used for the bend form ?


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## apointofview

mrputz1 - Are you asking about the end caps of my boiler ?
Pete


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## apointofview

Back from the vacation and got a bit of time to work on the boat. What I came up with for a boiler feed pump is possibly the ugliest item I have made so far. I have to get better at planning ahead. My design on the fly attitude has served me well but more and more I see the need for plans. My lack of patience for drawing out designs is the biggest reason I haven't looked into CAD. I should since fusion 360 is free but that's a whole new skill for my already full brain. I have discovered if I learn something new I forget something old !

Anyway back to the modern art looking pump. I used 3/16 rubber balls for the check valves and cut the metal so that both ball seats are not buried in a bore of some kind. I did that because I haven't had great success with getting these types of check valves to seal well and I thought being able to inspect the seat and adjust it out in the open would help. I didn't take many pictures for these parts, I was just keeping my head down and cutting metal, kind of winding down from the trip overseas. I still need to fit a mounting bracket and plumb it in but quick test with no real load is promising. I will take an exploded view picture of the pump and post it to be more clear on the design
Pete
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## apointofview

Next is to build something to drive the pump. I wanted make a worm gear using a 5/16 - 16 tap. My plan was to hob a brass blank and just cut into it and reduce the diameter slowly until I like the reduction ratio. I didn't try calculating what I needed I just dove in. That didn't work out at all. Even at the smallest diameter I could thread the reduction was way too much, something new for the scrap bin. I went on a search to buy a set of gears. My setup requires the gear system to output at 90 degrees to the input shaft. I haven't tried to cut real gears yet let alone helical or bevel types. I didn't have any luck finding a source for what I wanted. Google suggested a ring and pinion set from an r/c truck ! I have a t-maxx and it goes thru parts like crazy so I looked through the spares I have and its ring and pinion are too big. A trip to the LHS and I came out with a nice 1/16 scale truck ring and pinion set. They look good and are made of something that carbide wont cut. I had to remove the center with a diamond grinding bit in my dremel. I started with a press fit sleeve to couple the pinion to the steam engine shaft. Then a couple of brackets to hold the ring gear and shaft. One adapter has been made to mount the ring to the shaft and I got to use the new toy my wife gave me. I have cheap Chinese scales on my mill and now they are connected to a blue tooth adapter and using TouchDRO. It works great and it allowed me to drill the three hole circle pattern in the adapter without using my rotary table. I highly recommend it ! It's been to long since geometry so I had to go to the internet to find a calculator to give me a correct radius for the circle. That was a long winded update wasn't it. 
Pete
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## apointofview

More pics
Pete
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## KM6VV

I'm still curious about using the tap to hob a worm gear.  Have you been successful before with this technique?


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## apointofview

Nope that was my first attempt, but a friend of mine has used that kind of setup to make worm gears. He uses a cut down bolt for the worm after using a matching tap. He has had guys use them for aiming telescopes so I guess they are pretty precise. I was looking for a 3:1 or so ratio and my taps won't work for that. Here is a link to someone pulling it off https://youtu.be/XIzlg_uObwQ
Pete


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## Cogsy

Sorry to hijack but there's a thread HERE with heaps of great tap-hobbing goodness in it.


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## KM6VV

That's great!  Thanks for the links.


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## apointofview

I have the other support made and the shaft in place for my ring gear. I will still have to drill a spot for a set screw to secure it to the shaft. I need to either make bushings for the shaft or source ball bearings. I have been thinking about swapping the crankshaft bushings for ball bearings just to allow the engine to spin easier, any thoughts ?
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## KBC

apointofview said:


> I have the other support made and the shaft in place for my ring gear. I will still have to drill a spot for a set screw to secure it to the shaft. I need to either make bushings for the shaft or source ball bearings. I have been thinking about swapping the crankshaft bushings for ball bearings just to allow the engine to spin easier, any thoughts ?
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Pete, 
I would use either brass or bronze bushings with an oil hole, I don't think it's worth the hassle of finding ball bearings as you are only going to use the boat intermitantly and you will have power in plenty with your engine.
With the shaft needing a grub screw, am I correct in thinking that it's a very hard metal that has to be tapped, if so why not machine a couple of annular rings on the shaft and glue it in with Loctite 603 and it will never move, as long as you are still able to take the shaft assembly out.
Remember that you don't have a lot of setting up time before it's impossible to move, the only way that I have found to loosen the Loctite is to heat the shaft with a blow lamp.

George.


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## apointofview

Thanks for the idea George, but I shy away from more permanent ways of securing things together. I find that since I design on the go sometimes I have to back up and rework. Locktite would fight me on that. I did go ahead and bush the shaft with brass. I can always do ball bearings later. 
I have the pump mounted and working !  I think the pictures will tell the story well enough. It took a lot of fiddling around to get it to fit and cycle correctly. I had to mount it with the piston opposite the drive because of space.  I drilled a lot of holes in the flywheel for stroke adjustment so I can fine tune it to the rate of water used. 
So that's about it for the big deal mechanical stuff so now It's all the little stuff. Soon it will be back to work on the hull. 
Pete
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## apointofview

Big day today !  I Have been working on plumbing and mounting all the power plant items in my little boat. This afternoon. I filled the boiler and oiler and lit the burner. In three minutes I had steam enough to run the engine and off it went !  Everything held together and seemed to work great. The noise in the video is mostly the Tmaxx driveshaft rattling. It gets a little better when I drag a finger on the prop so I hope a water load will help. If it stays loud I will look into making it quieter. The intake line on the pump is clamped in the video because it outruns the engine water consumption so that needs adjusting. I'm really pleased with the test. I won't do it again until I get the hull sealed and painted, oil gets all over so I don't want to soak the wood and then have trouble with paint sticking. 
Pete
https://youtu.be/uo1wNHDhQdo


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## Ghosty

Looks great, running very smooth

Cheers
Andrew


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

I have to congratulate you on making a wonderful innovative steam plant, it runs a real treat and once that prop gets in the water, it will slow the engine right down and I am sure you will be hard pushed to hear any of the workings, just s-m-o-o-t-h runnings.

To protect everything inside (and outside) of the hull from water and oil penetration, I used to paint the inside and out with a product from the model aircraft lads called 'epoxycote'. It is a very thin epoxy, that once mixed up soaks into the wood and is self levelling so you end up with a rock hard impenetrable finish that is glass hard, The wood becomes almost like fibre glass but still retains all the beauty. I think it now also used for coating wooden flooring.

Absolutely superb!!

John


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## a41capt

That is fantastic work Pete! I'm really enjoying this thread and amazed at your level of craftsmanship.

I'll bet you can't wait to get it on the water!

John W
Camp Verde, AZ


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## apointofview

John - Thanks a lot ! I hope the water load will quiet things up.  I tried to look up epoxycote and didn't find anything that was like you described, thin and penetrating.  Also I plan on painting the boat because the woodwork was all superglued together so a clear or stain finish won't work due to the places the glue already sealed up. So would paint stick to the epoxy ?

John W - Thanks I appreciate that !!! I'm glad the thread is interesting and yes I am ready to run it !!  Still got a ways to go.  I gotta find a good sized captain to put in the hull to do the navigation.


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## ddmckee54

Pete:

Slightly OT, but for a clear or stain finish over wood that been assembled with CA try a spit coat of clear shellac.  At least I've always heard it referred to as a spit coat, you thin the regular mix of shellac at least 50-50 with denatured alcohol.  This soaks into the wood and seals it so you can even stain over it and get consistent results.(Even on plywood - it virtually eliminates the typical tiger-striping.)  I've assembled wooden models and wooden toys using CA then after sanding used a spit coat of shellac to seal the wood.  The first time I tried on a model that had a couple of CA boo-boos I was amazed, with a clear finish I couldn't see any difference between the normal wood surface and the spots that had the CA boo-boos.  After that particular model, I wasn't really too paranoid anymore about where the CA was going to run - as long as it stayed off my fingers.  

Don


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

Epoxicote is still available here in the UK, but a search for Epoxy Coat soon brought up a load of hits in the US, mainly from wood flooring specialists.

Maybe they will send you a sample as the ones I looked at were quoting for gallons of the stuff.

Hope this helps

John


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## Ghosty

Pete,
You can get finishing resin from hobby shops(rc aircraft) Z-Poxy by Pacer, it can also be thinned out further by using up to 10% methylated Spirits.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Blogwitch

Pete,

Here are couple of pictures of my old Carvel planked hull which has been coated with epoxy. The decks on this one seem dull but that is because I had fine flatted it down ready for final polishing, it came out like a sheet of glass.






The advantage of it is that it encapsulates the whole hull in like a very hard plastic coat, in fact, my steamer was always used to break the ice in the winter so that other boats could sail.

This picture shows the engine mounts in the bottom of the hull using sealed top hat inserts. Not only does it hold everything very rigid when tightened down, everything is totally sealed and just requires a quick wipe over to bring it back like new.






Water and oil just doesn't affect it or get through it.


Sorry to hold you up on this build, just trying to assist.


John


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## apointofview

This isnt holding me up at all this is great information. I really appreciate the feedback guys. I had no idea you could still stain even with superglue spills I will have to do some testing. I wanted the stained wood look for the boat but figured I was doomed to paint it. Z poxy is good stuff I glassed the hull of my sternwheeler with it. That would be a good option. That hull in the pictures is beautiful John !!!

Back to woodworking I added a bumper around the outside of the top of the boat and around the inside to give top some more going surface. I also added the rudder and its servo. There is now a mounting spot for the gas can also. 
I cut out some paper to try to see what I want to the deck to look like what are you guys think of this? My wife is voting for no deck. 
Pete

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## Cogsy

When you said 'deck' I thought 'no' straight away but looking at your paper mock-up it does look good. I don't think you can go wrong really (I do like the idea of the electronics being somewhat hidden).


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## apointofview

I think it will be ok and I had the same thought about the radio gear. I also may hide a large whistle under there. There is also the added protection from a wave and it will stiffen up the hull. The all up weight is around 20lbs now so it flexes a bit when picking it up. 
Pete


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## apointofview

I think the major wood work is done and here is the result. Sure there is a lot of sanding to do, but that falls under finishing. I will add a few things like a seat or bench for the captain and maybe something to hide the 2+lbs of lead it will need but all in all I like how my first ( most likely last ) clinker hull came out. 
Pete
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## Cogsy

That looks fantastic! When I bought my house I discovered a set of plans for a planked rowboat tucked away in the shed. They're for a full sized boat but I've always thought about scaling them down and having a go. Of course I've thought just as much about having a go at full-size too...


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## Blogwitch

You've made a really nice job of that Pete, it reminds me of a model by Krick, called the Borkum, which was all the rage many years ago. 







Maybe you could use some of the fitting ideas to make your model a little less bare.
Again, really nice work.

John


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## apointofview

Cogsy, I can't imagine pulling a full size hull off. The level of precision that those planks would need to be water tight would be tough. I watched a lot of YouTube videos showing guys building those hulls and they are serious craftsman. 
Thanks John, you right that hull is a lot like mine. I will add the little details once all the required items are finished. Right now I am working on the getting the radio gear hooked up, adding ballast and looking for a captain figure to skipper the boat and that's proving hard to do.


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## Blogwitch

Hi Pete,
Do you have any dolls house shops nearby? A friend of mine contacted one near his home and they made him a few very lifelike figures for him.

This is a Victorian steam engineer working on one of the commercial engines I used to make.






They really do make a model boat come to life.


John


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## apointofview

John, no doll house places nearby, I'll figure out something, it has to have a captain. The one you have in the picture is great. 

The boat needs a whistle and this time I kept it simple. What I like about this one is that it is not sensitive to air pressure. It sounds fine through the useable pressure of my boiler. My bigger boat's whistle only likes higher pressures so this should sound more consistent. I got it to behave accidentally when I was testing the whistle. I let the inlet slip back and discovered that it helped the tone stay consistent, not sure why but it works. Everything I have read says the opening of the jet of air should line up with the cutout in the body. When I did that it only sounded good at a specific pressure. Just a pic of the finished part and a video of it singing. 
Pete
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https://youtu.be/7ajYMiPWAyA


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## a41capt

Pete, why not Captain the ship yourself, in miniature of course!  There is a company on the internet that does 3D prints of you in whatever scale you choose!

With all this great craftsmanship, I think a smiling miniature of yourself would be only fitting in the stern of your steam launch!  &#55357;&#56832;


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## apointofview

Really ? I had no idea that could be done. That gives me something to think about, I wonder if they could give me a mini beard that my wife would never approve of in full scale !!!


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## apointofview

Well while I'm pondering the crew of my boat some more work has gotten done. The throttle linkage has been figured out and most of it is done. All that is left is to mount a servo and a rod from it to the bellcrank that is mounted on the water tank. I have to wait on the captain to see what room I have. I want to have his hand on the throttle so his arm moves with power changes. The other arm will be on the tiller. At least that's the plan. 
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Pete


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## apointofview

Ok next up was a valve to control the new whistle. It is another make it up as I go part and it came out pretty good. It leaks a tiny bit so a little work on the sealing surface is in order but overall it works fine and better yet my whistle still works on steam. The pitch went up a little vs the compressed air. 
I tried using a rubber check ball because it seals up so easily, but it didn't like the heat so stainless it will be. 
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## apointofview

Oops forgot the video of the whistle on steam -
https://youtu.be/Zo_uhxKZ0cw


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## apointofview

The boat is getting closer to being done. I took care of the ballast by melting down a bunch of tire weights and forming ( beating ) the lead into a few thin pieces to fill the space between the formers and on either side of the boiler. It needed the weight to get the hull low enough to cover the prop and to reduce the top heavy effect the boiler has on the boat. Without the lead it rocks side to side a little too much. It came to about 2lbs total. 
I also got to work on a place for the captain to sit. The bench and floor also cover up the radio gear that is mounted in the stern. There are three servos back there. One for throttle, one for the rudder and one for the whistle. Magnets will hold down the bench and floor. The only item left to be made is a goodall valve for filling the boiler so it looks like it's time for sanding and prepping for epoxy and paint. The little wooden doll is going to be the captain but I have to give him a better head and get him dressed. 
Pete
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## apointofview

I have started painting so progress is slow. The hull got two coats of epoxy and then a coat of high build primer so far. The boiler has been wrapped with two layers of 1/8 ceramic insulation and then black painted aluminum flashing all held together with three brass bands. High temp black and white paint finish off the smoke stack. 
Pete
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## kno3

The boiler looks great all painted and shiny. How are you going to paint the hull?


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## apointofview

I'm just going to rattle can it with an automotive enamel paint.


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## apointofview

A bit of progress on the hull. It's now white and curing. I am paranoid now about adding the blue to the hull that I planned. I had trouble with the paint lifting/wrinkling on the water tanks and did a little internet research. Lots of guys have trouble getting the rustoleum enamel to dry good enough to add another layer without a disaster. 
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I also finished the caps for the tanks finally by adding the stainless bars. I did one but didn't ever get around to the other two. Really these other pics are just to show off the new tooling my lovely wife bought me. This is the square collet holder, there is also a hex holder and 16 5c collets !!  She must not mind me messing around in the garage if she is getting me more stuff !!!
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Pete


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## Herbiev

Great job. Great wife too


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## apointofview

Thanks and your right I got a good one !


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## SilverSanJuan

Hi Pete,

I've just finished reading this thread so far over the last couple days.  All I can say is Wow!  Your work is truly inspiring.  And, I've learned a lot of cool things along the way.  Thanks for sharing this.  I can't wait to see how she turns out.  :thumbup:

Todd


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## apointofview

Todd,
That's really great of you to say !! I'm not sure how I am wowing you...I have seen your work and its amazing and the project of the month award is well deserved.  I'm glad someone is getting something out of this because I have gotten so much out of this site I'd like to believe I am contributing something in return.
Pete


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## SilverSanJuan

Thank you, Pete.  This is a great forum.  There are so many talented folks here that I'm learning from.


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## apointofview

Looks like I am done painting! I had one screwup that set me back a little. I painted the hull and I wanted to expose the wood around the top edge of the deck and coat it with zpoxy to tie the wood of the inside to the outside. Well I didn't pay attention to the zpoxy while it cured and it dripped on to the paint on the outside of the hull. I guess when it heats up to cure it gets a bit thinner and can run easier for a little while. I had to sand the runs off which also messes up some of the paint. I have recovered from that mistake and now I can begin assembling the running gear. I have been kicking around ideas on how to secure the prop to its shaft. It threads on just fine and it can be tightened up good but I was worried that it may spin off the shaft when it runs in reverse and I don't want to have that happen. I didn't want to locktite it on because that seems too permanent so I drilled thru both the prop and the shaft and ran a couple of pieces of safety wire through the hole. That should hold it nicely and still allow for disassembly if needed. View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1500846403.383966.jpg

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Pete


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## Ghosty

Pete, looks great, won't be long before it gets wet.

Cheers
Andrew


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## apointofview

Your right I could resist any longer !
It's time for a float test ! Looks like it sits in the water about where it needs to be. I may take some lead out to adjust for the weight gain from all the epoxy and paint but for now it seems fine. The pictures show that a bit more touch up needs to happen with the paint. I need to come up with a name and have the trophy shop carve out a couple of name plates for either side of the bow. Not much left to do. I need to finish up my Goodall fill valve and carve the captains head. He needs a tiller to hold onto and maybe a lever for the throttle. 
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## a41capt

Fantastic Pete!  She looks like a seaworthy craft ready to take on everything from a coastal run to a pleasant Sunday cruise along the James River!


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## Cymro77

Fantastic work Pete, thanks for sharing.  Just for the record you can no longer call yourself a greenhorn!


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## SilverSanJuan

She looks absolutely gorgeous, Pete! :thumbup:  Shipshape and Bristol Fashion.


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## apointofview

Thanks guys ! It was really fun to see it in water even if it's just in the tub.  It looks better than I expected it would !!
Yep novice doesn't fit anymore but someone just winging it as I go still applies. This site and all who post information on it made this possible. When I don't know how to do something all I have to do is search and someone here has taken the time to show how to get it done. Best part of it is that no one is treated like an idiot, everyone has a great helpful attitude !! I wish I could thank everyone individually !  I bought the little mill and lathe barely knowing what they were because a guy at work pushed me to and here I am years later having lots of fun with them still due to guys like you !!!!
Pete


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## Ghosty

Pete, I think you going to need a bigger pond, Sits about right and looks absolutely gorgeous on the water.

Cheers
Andrew


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## apointofview

Thanks! Looks like the soup can testing with the foam mockup was right, it sits about where I hoped it would. It's surprising what water will lift, that little boat is 11lbs and it seems to heavy for its size. 
Pete


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## SilverSanJuan

Pete, what are you using for lagging on your pipes?  It looks like some sort of cotton string.


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## apointofview

It's two layers of100% cotton yarn from Walmart. I don't know how much it helps hold the heat in the pipe but it's worth it just to save my skin when I bump a pipe. From what I have been told if the yarn gets wet it acts as a heat sink instead of an insulator. I have heard of guys soaking it with superglue or painting it to waterproof the cotton but then the insulating properties are ruined. If I need to do something different I am going to try splitting silicon fuel tube and place it on the pipe first followed by a cotton wrap to hold it in place and look better than the fuel tube. 
Pete


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## SilverSanJuan

Thanks, Pete.   I think the fuel tube might be a good idea.   It does look nice with the cotton wrap.


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## apointofview

Fuel tube with a cotton winding around it would be the best of both I think. Good insulation and good looks. I haven't done it to see the results in real life but it looks good in my head. 
Pete


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## apointofview

I have a way to fill the boiler now. I did a bit of looking around for ways to fill the boiler manually and came across the Goodall valve. I wanted a positive lock on the filling tube that didn't require me to hold pressure on the tube while filling the boiler. That would work fine on something stationary or even a vehicle that is on the ground but pressing on a boiler in a boat seems like it would sink it or require more hands than I have. I made mine with two screws turned down at the ends to form pins. These pins catch a groove on the fill tube fitting. That groove has two detents that catch the pins when the fitting is turned 1/4 turn. There is an o-ring that is compressed slightly when the fill tube is engaged to the Goodall valve. It works fine with no pressure in the boiler and soon I should be able to test it with pressure. If I get the axle pump setup correctly I hope to not have to top off the boiler while running the boat. I doubt this explanation makes any sense so here's hoping the pictures help. 
Pete
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Pete


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## apointofview

The rest of the pics
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Pete


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## apointofview

Ok, I put out an ad for someone brave enough to take an unproven boat out to sea, I mean pond, and put it through its paces. This is who showed up. He said he came from an old closet clothes poll and wanted to get his own boat. He isn't a looker but what do you expect for my first carving ! 
Pete 
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## Blogwitch

Looks to be a very happy chappie Pete, and so he should be, being in control of a lovely hand made boat.

Looking forwards to the launch.


John


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## SilverSanJuan

I think he looks great.   Definitely a salty ol' sailor.


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## apointofview

Thanks guys !  I just about have it wrapped up, just a small item but it has been bugging me since I built the control valve for the engine. It needed a better looking nut on the center post that holds tension on the valve

I am waiting on the engravings for the name plates that the local trophy shop is making for me. After those are in place it will get a bunch of pictures and then off to the pond to see if it all works in the real world. 
Pete

This is the old nut, just an 8-32 that was in my hardware box. 
View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1501504211.753608.jpg

Here is the upgrade. The dome shape was just made by getting the shape close with the lathe and then finishing with a file and sandpaper. 
View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1501504345.019472.jpg

I love my new collet holders. Cutting a hex shape is so much faster this way than with my rotary table. 
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## SilverSanJuan

Nice!  Looking forward to the first underway report.


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## Cymro77

The Acorn nut was well executed, but frankly I think it looks a little pretentious used in this location. IMHO.  Can't wait to see the boat in operation.  Great work!


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## Ghosty

Pete, If you make the whole brass piece and the acorn nut into one piece it would look a lot better,

Cheers
Andrew


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## apointofview

I am going to eventually change something but not sure what at the moment. The valve works fine as it is until the pressure gets around 30psi. At that point it gets enough push from the steam to lift off the seat. The easy solution would seem to be just hog down on the nut or make a stronger spring, but the tiny little hs-55 servo that is hooked up to it can't deal with the increased friction. Pond trials may show me that less than 30psi is plenty to run with. It will all work out but I am ready to float it and quit working on it.


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## Blogwitch

30PSI should be more than ample Pete, any more is just a waste of energy and steam.

Don't fall into the trap of trying to get speedboat speeds out of your great boat, it should glide along quite serenely.and majestic, gently puffing away..

John


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## apointofview

That's a good point this is a slow paced type of boat isn't it. If it will move at 10-20psi in the pond then that's all the better. Bench runs showed me that it runs smoother at low pressure and it's because of the water pump. When it has to overcome the higher boiler pressure it makes the engine speed up and slow down a bit as it hits the work side of the stroke. Low psi means a little less fuel too. 
I have a few days off coming up and I hope to run it in the water then. 
Pete


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## apointofview

The maiden voyage is over ! I took it out to the little city pond last night and set her loose. The boat worked and did putt around a little bit but it was a very short outing.  The water level was in the pond was very low and that made it so I had to cross 6 feet of mud to get to the water's edge.  that made it really hard to fiddle with the boat.  Just getting it in and out of the water was tough and I nearly fell into the mud a couple of times, once while holding the boat.  That fact alone made this outing not much fun.  The city also put a fountain in the center of the pond which is loud and churns up the water.  I am going to have to scout out a new place to run my boats I guess. That combined with a couple of problems that revealed themselves and you have a quick short run.  Here is what I found with the boat.  The biggest problem is the directional control valve.  It lifts off its seat too easily. Even at 20psi it starts wasting steam.  I did take it apart and found a bit of FOD in it so that didn't help but it needs work.  I don't think my blade pitch is good.  It ran ok forward but won't pull at all in reverse.  I will have to mess with the prop blades and try to fix that. Another problem is my feed water tank setup.  Under a load in the pond the engine uses a lot more water than running on the bench.  I increased the pump stroke to keep up with the usage.  Well with that increase the pump only pulled water from one tank.  My tanks are connected to each other with a 1/4" tube and the pump is tapped into that tube close to one tank and that is the tank that ran dry while the other stayed full.  I need to change that design too. The last problem may fix itself when I get better efficiency out of the system.  I had to turn up the burner to get the boat moving better. The burner got so hot that it started burning the gas on the backside of the ceramic.  That got the base for the boiler really really hot.  It's good I put an air gap and a metal drip pan between the boiler and the hull, otherwise I might have had a cooked boat !  
It's all fixable, just a bit disappointing for the maiden run.
Pete
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4d9vmrm7QI[/ame]


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## ShopShoe

I like it even though you said there's work to do.

Just watching the video looks like a peaceful day at the pond. Sorry about the mud.

Thank You for posting,

--ShopShoe


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## Cogsy

It sure looked pretty while it was out there though!


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## Blogwitch

Pete,
With the slow engine speeds of a steam engine you can get away with flat blades on your prop.
That is all we had before manufacturers started to get into the act and made nice pretty curved ones.

That might be why you don't get much shove in reverse or it just might be the rudder being too close and stopping water getting to the prop and causing it to be too inefficient.

Other than that, your boat looks great on the water.

John


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## SilverSanJuan

She looks gorgeous on the water! :thumbup:  What is a maiden voyage without a few wrinkles to iron out?   I'm sure you'll have those taken care of quickly.  Good job!


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## Herbiev

Very majestic craft. I'm sure you will sort out the minor problems


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## Cymro77

Great job! Way cool......


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## apointofview

Thanks everyone! It did look good out there. It wasn't too peaceful in my head but it did accomplish what the original goal was , to carry it with one arm and just plop it in the pond.  I guess the biggest letdown was thinking I had it all perfect and sure enough I was wrong. Oh well I still like working on stuff so it's back into the garage I go. 

The first attempt at fixing the water delivery problem is to make the connecting pipe between the two tanks much bigger.  A quick test by siphoning from the pump feed line is promising. Here is a shot of the old and new pipe. 

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1501978062.615119.jpg


The control valve is gong to get a thrust bearing instead of the spring. I have a little bearing from a r/c buggy I had long ago. I made a shroud for it and it is going to be held down by the acorn nut. I added a set screw to the nut because I found it moves when the throttle lever moves. It did it with the spring and the new setup. I also filed a little vee notch in the spool part of the valve at each slot in an attempt to get a better transition from stop and full throttle. If this doesn't fix the problems I had then the next attempt will be a total redesign. I'm not thrilled with the design of the whole valve. 
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The prop was easy I just flattened out the curve of the blades a bit and twisted them all to match. This may not be the last pitch adjustment, at least it's easy. 

Before
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After
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## apointofview

Oops.......


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## apointofview

apointofview said:


> So I worked on all the problems that showed up on the first run and then took it back out for another test. I found a better pond for this run and had a very good outing. All I had to do was fill the boiler feed water tanks up when they got low. The rest of the time was spent running the boat all over the pond. I am thrilled with how it ran this time. I guess this should conclude the thread. I may update it with a video when the weather gets cold. This run was on an 85F day so the steam doesn't show up all that well.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone that followed along and especially to those that helped me by taking the time to post ideas and suggestions to help me get this built !!
> 
> 
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n1eHbjOpOc[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXgoNsUkGWg[/ame]
> 
> 
> 
> The engine video didn't show this view down the stack, its hard to get a good image with all the heat and steam fogging the camera. It's kind of neat looking so here is a still shot
> View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1502150753.038883.jpg


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## MRA

What a lovely job.  Sometimes it's nice to appreciate a good run in the light of earlier problems successfully overcome.

I'd be worried, if it were mine, about what I'd do if it sank (but that says much more about my state of mind than about your boat). Do you have buoyancy tucked away anywhere?  Or maybe a log string and a small buoy so at least you could wade in and find it?


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## Blogwitch

All that matters Pete is that you are happy with it, and what else can you be when you have made from scratch a very good looking and working model boat.

A great and informative post

Many thanks

John


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## SilverSanJuan

Good job, Pete!  She looks grand on the water. :thumbup:


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## almarghi

just amazing!!!


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## apointofview

Thanks guys !!!!
As far as sinking goes there isn't anything in the boat to help keep it a float. If it gets swamped it's gonna go down. I only plan on running it on ideal days. We aren't going to see how it does in rough seas so it should never get close to dropping under the surface. With that said a small float and a string tied off to structure wouldn't hurt just in case a duck decided to defend his territory!!


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