# 3000 rpm on a Myford lathe



## firebird (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi

I haven't posted much of late but I have been busy. There has of course been the usual round of domestic duties to attend to but my workshop time has been taken up with tooling. Since the completion of my small steam plant and the steam beam engine I have concentrated on making all the little bits and pieces, thick washers, handles, knobs etc that are always needed but never to hand. Plus sorting out storage, making racks and boxes etc. I have also been busy on a major bit of kit that is now getting close to completion. During the course of making the two steam engines, especially some of the smaller parts like stainless steel needles for the valves etc it seemed the Myford simply wasn't fast enough. My mate Julian has 2 of the Chinese lathes, a CO with top speed of 3800 and a C3 model with a top speed of 3000 rpm. Having had the opportunity to use both these lathes and a watchmakers type lathe with a top speed of 4500 rpm I decide I needed something faster. What were the options, go out and buy a new lathe?? No I love my old Myford and wouldn't change it for the world. So I set to and designed a new head stock that would sit on the lathe bed in front of the existing head stock. Belt drive to a counter shaft and then back up again. The new headstock sits on exactly the same centre line so I can use the the same tooling in the same top and cross slide plus of course the same tail stock. Its driven by the same lathe motor by mounting the first gear in the mandrel and taking the drive from there. With the Myford belt in the middle position I now have approximately 3000 rpm at the new head stock. The only down side is the loss of about 6 inches between centres but that's no problem as I will only be turning small short stuff in the new headstock, anything bigger will be machined as normal.

Anyway here's a short video. The modification isn't finished yet, there are belt guards to make and one or two more bits. 

Before anybody tells me off for running a machine with no belt guards let me assure you I wasn't machining anything and I was wearing a leather welding apron and safety goggles. I was standing well clear while I switched on for a few moments to shoot the video. 

[ame]http://youtu.be/YFnk5FHdmp8[/ame]

Any questions please fire away, I have loads of photos etc.


Cheers

Rich


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## steamer (Sep 3, 2011)

That is a fairly serious bit of kit!  And yes no mention of the lack of guarding.


Be careful with that....there's a lot of inertia there.

Dave


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## MachineTom (Sep 3, 2011)

Looks nice, what sort of BB are used in the headstock, annular contacts? Is the RPM rating of the chuck good for 3K. High speed is great for the finish, I use stick lube when cutting, an absolute at those speeds.


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## Spurry (Sep 3, 2011)

Rich

Very clever solution. Put's me in mind of Baldrick, when he says..."Sire, I have a cunning plan...."

Pete


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## firebird (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi

Dave, I will be making a substantial guard that covers everything from the existing head stock to the new one.

Tom, I have used taper roller bearings that are good for higher speeds than I am using. I don't intend to use a chuck just collets. It has been designed to use my existing MT2 myford collets which are closed and held in with a screwed ring. I have collets up to 1/2 inch, I figure anything bigger than that won't need high speed. Can you give me a little more info on stick lub?

Pete, unlike some of Baldricks plans this one works.

Cheers

Rich


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## lordedmond (Sep 3, 2011)

well my Myford does go to 3K rpm as standard ;D

a point on my my ford chucks ( big bore ) they have the safe working sped stamped on and it is 4500 rpm, I would be a bit wary of the standard 1 1/8 nose chucks at that speed.

also the new back plates have a safety screw in them to prevent spin off, it not for using in reverse if the shaft stops at 3K then the mass of the chuck will continue to try and turn , result fly away chuck 


good project though but do consider the speed ratings of the parts and the spin off problem


Stuart


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## firebird (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi Stuart

As stated above I don't intend to use a chuck, only collets. I had thought of potential spin off problems at the design stage. My thinking is that any work piece big enough to require a chuck won't need the high speed so will be machined using the standard speeds and original head stock/spindle. Its a good point though and worth emphasizing.

Cheers

Rich


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## arnoldb (Sep 3, 2011)

:bow: :bow: Rich, that is just brilliant :bow: :bow:!

I agree about checking for spin-off - but it's always the small things that need a wee bit of speed which our ML7s don't have, and for collet chucks this is just dandy.

There's an additional advantage to your solution. It gets away from the headstock a bit and will use some of the less-used bed for working; I don't know about your lathe, but mine is definitely a lot "looser" on the apron close to the headstock, as a lot of small parts are made there and wear is the highest on the bed there.

 ;D Oh, and don't be too jealous of the high speeds - when it comes to needing slow speeds (for threading and turning BIG bits close to the lathe's limit), I do consider the ML7 to be a good girl; very few new lathes of a similar size will go down as slow as 35RPM with maximum torque like ours does Thm:. The problem is the electronic speed controls; I found that already with my additional "small" lathe; runs great at 1000+ RPM, but no torque below that because of the variable speed control. Guess it'll get back-gearing as well!

Stuart, you're fortunate ;D - Super 7 ? 

Kind regards, Arnold

Kind regards, Arnold


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## firebird (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi Arnold

I agree. One of the new skills I had to learn while making this was screw cutting, the 1 1/8 thread on the nose for instance. The high torque and low speed made it a lot easier. Another was line boring the two holes for the taper roller bearings, and then there was turning the large blanks to make the two 90 tooth pulleys. 

Anything anyone wants to take a closer look at just shout up and I'll post some pics.

Cheers

Rich


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## tel (Sep 3, 2011)

Looks a good, workable solution to me - that 700 odd rpm top speed has always been a limiting factor with my ancient, but well beloved Myford!

Put up some pics by all means - I, for one, would like a closer look.


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## Mosey (Sep 3, 2011)

50 to 1375 on my South Bend 10K. 3000rpm? Sounds great.


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## lordedmond (Sep 4, 2011)

arnoldb  said:
			
		

> :bow: :bow: Rich, that is just brilliant :bow: :bow:!
> 
> I agree about checking for spin-off - but it's always the small things that need a wee bit of speed which our ML7s don't have, and for collet chucks this is just dandy.
> 
> ...



Arnold

Its not a super 7 its a connoisseur complete with inverter drive as standard


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## firebird (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi

Stuart, you are a very lucky man.

Ok a few pics of how it all started. For quite a while I was stumped on how to make the spindle. It would of course have to be accurate, hard and have a 2 MT. I looked into all ways of how to machine one but I was really stuck until one day I was working on my mill which is an R8. I have an adapter which takes it to 2MT so I can use some of my other tooling and when I took it out the draw everything suddenly fell into place. Checking its dimensions its largest diameter was even the same size as the Myford nose. They are not that expensive to buy at £9.50.

First job was to get it very accurately centred in a 4 jaw chuck.





Then turn down to 1 1/8 with support from the tail stock.





Then screw cut.





It then has to be reversed in the chuck and set up accurately again





Then turned down to 24mm. Its just under 25mm diametre, a standard sizefor taper roller bearings, so I had to turn it down to 24mm and source some bearings of that size.





A trial fit of a bearing.





The spindle is quite hard. I trashed a couple of TCT inserts and had to face up the screw cutting tool a couple of times.

More to follow 

Cheers

Rich


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## Davo J (Sep 4, 2011)

Great idea and turned out nice.
It's amazing how people go on about guards, when years ago we had none or very little guarding.

Dave


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## firebird (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi

Thanks Dave.

Here's one I forgot to show re the spindle. Screw cutting a 32 TPI thread on the other end. This will take a screwed collar which will be used to adjust the bearings.





Cheers

Rich


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## steamer (Sep 4, 2011)

Davo J  said:
			
		

> Great idea and turned out nice.
> It's amazing how people go on about guards, when years ago we had none or very little guarding.
> 
> Dave




Yeah I know...but big brother and the lawyers love it... ;D

Dave


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## firebird (Sep 5, 2011)

Yeah, tell me about it Dave.

At work we are being plagued by the council, health and safety etc etc. It'll get to the point where we won't be able to get anything done but that's a debate for another place I think.

The head stock I made from 1/2 thick steel plate. The base has a fixed and an adjustable strip underneath which sits between the lathe beds. These were adjusted until it was a nice snug fit on the bed. The idea is that once adjusted and set up I can fit the high speed head stock to the lathe in less than 3 minutes.









The rest of the head stock is then fabricated from 1/2 steel plate and 6mm cap head bolts.





the head stock is held onto the lathe bed with 2 clamp plates that sit underneath the lathe shears.





With the head stock fabrication complete it is fitted to the lathe with the 2 clamps just nipped up enough to allow the head stock to slide up and down the lathe bed which has been well oiled. The head stock is now fixed securely to the cross slide with a strap.





Boring for the bearings started with a centre drill and then increased to the biggest drill I have which is on a 2mt shank fitted directly into the mandril. Drilling is by moving the carriage up and down the bed taking the new head stock with it. 









Then I changed to a boring head fitted into the lathe mandril but now I used the lead screw to drive the carriage up and down.





Here's a video of the boring operation.

http://youtu.be/ktD7-AQpUj4

Final cuts were taken very lightly until the taper roller outer race just started to enter the hole. There is no room for error on this part of the operation. Just .001 too much and the bearing will be too loose.





Cheers

Rich


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## arnoldb (Sep 5, 2011)

Good going Rich ;D

Keep the pictures coming; I'm also watching!

Kind regards, Arnold


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## tel (Sep 5, 2011)

... as am I - with bated eyes!


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## firebird (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi

Here's a few more photos.

The outer bearing races need a shoulder to press up to. I turned a piece of thick walled aluminium tube





To be an absolute dead fit in the head stock.





Set up in the mill and drilled and tapped both ends 5mm.



 

Using the same coordinates the head stock was drilled 5mm.





Fitted in





A trial fit of the bearings and spindle





The spindle needs a larger diameter collar at the nose end. A collar was turned with a bore a few thou undersize.





And then pressed onto the spindle. Its purpose will become apparent shortly. 





Cheers

Rich


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## firebird (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi

The bearings are adjusted by tightening a screwed ring that presses onto a thrust washer. 

Screw cutting a steel ring





Drill and tap 4mm then machine a pocket for the cap head screw





Cut through with a slitting saw





Then drill through one side clearance for a 4 mm screw leaving threads in the other side.

When the bearings are adjusted the screwed ring can be locked in place by tightening the clamp screw





The screwed ring is drilled and tapped 4mm.





The 30 tooth gear is drilled and countersunk 4mm





The gear is fixed to the screwed ring with 3 countersunk cap head screws with some loctite on the threads.

The thrust washer is made of brass which is drilled to have a steel pin pressed in.





The R8 adapter very conveniently has a slot cut in it. The thrust washer pin locates in the slot.









Cheers

Rich


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## firebird (Sep 9, 2011)

Hi

To stop swarf etc getting into the bearings I made 2 seals. The best way I can describe it is I made two big 6mm thick aluminium washers.





I had to grind up a boring bar type tool to cut a groove into the inner diameter





Cutting a groove





Into which is fitted an O ring





Two 5mm holes drilled and countersunk on the same pcd as the bearing central spacer





A 6mm slot cut into the spacer





The front seal fitted. The pressed on collar runs in the seal. The rear seal runs on the brass thrust washer. The reason for the slot in the spacer is so that a bar can be dropped through into the slot in the mandril to hold it for tool changing etc.





In this shot you can also see the screwed bearing adjuster ring with the 30 tooth gear fitted





Cheers

Rich


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## tel (Sep 9, 2011)

Brilliant stuff Rich - a real education


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## MachineTom (Sep 9, 2011)

Took a time to respond to your question of the lube I use when turning high RPM's. It's called BoeLube comes in a stick form within a plastic push out tube, when the work is up to speed, just touch the stick to the work, friction melts it and then it instantly hardens, very little smoke when cutting, since it melts duriing application, and again when cutting, a face shield is a good idea. A little bit goes a long way.


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## firebird (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi Tom

Thanks, I'll try and get some.

Cheers

Rich


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## lordedmond (Sep 11, 2011)

i know you have finished this project

but is there a reason you did not bore the spindle nose to take a er32 collett and thread the nose for the closing nut or have I misread your pic,s ?


Stuart


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## firebird (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi Stuart

I designed it to use all my existing Myford kit, 2MT, collets etc, which seemed the logical thing to do. I do however have a ER32 collet adapter threaded to suit the myford spindle which I was going to show later.

Here's a few more pics.

Packing the bearings with grease





This shot shows the rear seal in place and the bearings being adjusted and locked with the clamp









This where the clamps fit into the lathe bed.





Cheers

Rich


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## lordedmond (Sep 12, 2011)

Ok

thanks for the reply


Stuart


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## firebird (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi

The cover is a simple flip over lid made from aluminium.





Drill and tap the sides to take a couple of short 5mm cap head bolts.





The holes in the lid have to be elongated to allow it to flip over









Cheers

Rich


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## firebird (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi

I planned on a 9 fold increase in speed so 4 gears would be needed. 2 x 30 tooth and 2 x 90 tooth. As luck would have it a pair of 30 tooth gears came my way FOC which saved me the job of cutting them but would have been the same method as the 2 x 90 tooth gears. The method is shown in detail in a topic here on HMEM. If you follow this link you will see how it developed.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=12374.0

The 2 gears were cut as one by mounting 2 pieces of 10mm thick aluminium plate on a mandril and turning to size.





Setting the cutter height to the rotary table centre line.





The first tooth cut, only another 89 to go





The finished gears





I made a mandril to hold one of the 90 tooth gears (the drive gear) in a collet in the lathe spindle 





One of the 30 tooth gears is fixed to a 90 tooth gear with a spacer between the two









Cheers

Rich


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## arnoldb (Sep 13, 2011)

Great going Rich - Thanks for sharing! :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold


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## firebird (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi

This has nothing to do with this project but I thought I would show it anyway. I need some 20 tooth gears for another experimental project. I decided to cut the teeth onto a solid bar then part off 10mm wide bits. I have machined the teeth about 60mm long which should give me 4 gears @ 10mm each allowing for the parting tool.







Cheers

Rich


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## firebird (Sep 17, 2011)

Hi

One thing I wanted to achieve with this project was to make it very quick and easy to fit and remove. I have found that any bit of kit that is difficult or time consuming to use rarely gets used. I have tried to design this so I can fit it to the lathe in under 3 minutes. With that in mind I designed the counter shaft on a swinging arm, fitting and removing the belts can be done in seconds.

The swinging arm is made from aluminium. A bar is turned and bored to accept a pair of bearings witha 12mm bore.






It is then cross drilled 6mm and then drilled one side only clearance for the 6mm cap head bolts so that they will drop through.






A flat is then machined.






!/2 inch aluminium plate drilled and tapped 6mm






The plate has the other end machined away and cross drilled






This is how the 2 pieces bolt together. This shot was taken before the end was machined away






A steel bracket is made and fixed to the side of the headstock






A 6mm steel pin completes the swinging arm. A 12mm steel shaft has the two fixed gears pinned to one end. Spacers were made up to get the correct belt alignment






Its own weight is enough to tension the belt. A 6mm screw is all that's needed to hold it in place. 






Cheers

Rich


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## firebird (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi

This is the screw that maintains the belt tension.






This shot shows the 2 pulleys on the headstock are in alignment






With the headstock sitting on the lathe bed its a simple job to slide it back and forth to align the drive belt






Then lock it in place. I can achieve all this in less than 3 minutes






Checking the spindle for run out with a piece of 1/4 silver steel in a collet. Not bad only .001






That's pretty much where I am to date. I still have to make the belt guards and tidy up a few bits, I'll post more when I have done.

Cheers

Rich


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## crab (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for posting this Rich,you have given me a lot of good ideas Thm:.
Crab


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## firebird (Sep 22, 2011)

hi

Glad you like it Mr Crab.

This has been a fairly brief look at what has taken me about 9 months on and off. If anyone needs more details on a particular part I'll do my best to oblige.

Cheers

Rich


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## firebird (Sep 25, 2011)

Hi 

Not directly linked to this project but here's a few more pics of the gear cutting.

Parting off some 20T gears











Making some flanges from 1mm aluminium






4 flanges trapped between the 2 gears on a mandrel and machined to size






Held onto the gear with 4 pop rivets






Here's some 36T gears being machined.






6 pop rivets on this size gear
















Cheers

Rich


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## firebird (Nov 5, 2011)

Hi

Just a quick update here. I have almost finished the belt guard now, fabricated from a strip of 1.5mm stainless steel with aluminium sides.






Cheers

Rich


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## Rctintin (Nov 1, 2015)

Hi guys, I new to this forum, having followed a link from another forum.

For some reason, I cannot see any of the pictures relating to this thread. Is this the same for everyone?

I am converting my lathe to CNC, and have been looking for a way to safely increase the HS of my Myford ML7, and all I've seen of this project is the YouTube video of it running. 

Does anyone else know if these pics are shared on any other forums please?

Cheers all


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## Blogwitch (Nov 1, 2015)

This happens a fair amount on sites, where people use something like photobucket to store their pictures and then something goes wrong with the storage site.
I myself lost over 2,000 uploaded pictures in just that way and all my posts ended up with this sort of display.

I did manage to get a lot of my pictures back up and running, but it is a long process where you have to put in all new links into the posts.

Your best bet would be try to contact Firebird (Rich) through a PM or email and get him to send you the missing pictures by email, he is a very amiable chap. I have done just that with a lot of people who required pictures from a lot of my old posts.

Hope this helps.

John


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## goldstar31 (Nov 1, 2015)

I've come into this rather late but the classic answer to a Myford to run at 3000 rpm lies in the words of Kenneth C Hart who wrote under Martin Cleeve. His ML7- made from part of a new Myford- was run with two electric motors and if my ancient brain is in gear, it was Model Engineer Vol 113. 

For the doubters, you can always read his Screwcutting in the Lathe where his converted machine is depicted. For those interested, the lathe height was raised 3/8th of an inch and  his Glacier plain bearings stood up to the lathe being used for giving him his livelihood.

Worth a read

Norman


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## Rctintin (Nov 1, 2015)

That's great, cheers. I'll try and find the article.


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## Hopper (Dec 20, 2015)

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant. Yes please, pics would be lovely.


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## goldstar31 (Dec 20, 2015)

I have the article but have moved to Windows 10 for all sorts of reasons but I am having difficulties in downloading.  Once my all consuming task of sorting out the financial turmoil following my wife's unexpected death, I might sort out my own Myford problems. Yep, in the two major storms , my workshop roof came off. Too old and too busy for such trivia.

Norman


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## Nick Hulme (Mar 11, 2016)

lordedmond said:


> well my Myford does go to 3K rpm as standard ;D



My Super7 runs up to 3550rpm, it also has 30.5 mm spindle through capacity ;-)


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