# Grinding wheel choices?



## Naiveambition (Dec 12, 2018)

i am setting up a grinder station to grind my tools and have ?s regarding wheel types used.   
First off I will be grinding lathe bits, drills, and possibly endmills.   I have the Harold hall grinding jig book on the way to help with angles.  
My question is more of what kind of wheel to use.   Meaning cup, plate mounted, regular flat face.  

The drill sharpener says to use the side of the reg. wheel, and while this may be ok by somewhere else, I am wildly uncomfortable doing this.   I'm sure the front face would work with a rigid setup to eliminate flex, but if it ever does catch their will lots parts and pieces a flying.
So pre thought would be a plate mounted wheel to do drills, (prob. Alum oxide) and hss lathe tools. And a green for lathe carbide.
  Am I correct that u only use the face of a plate mount wheel?
And as for endmill sharpening I'm guessing a diamond cup wheel,    I may want to sharpen the side flutes later on as I get through Harold's book, but for now just the face.


----------



## TonyM (Dec 12, 2018)

I was taught to use only the front of the wheel of a bench grinder. Using the side of the wheel was always a big no.
Toolroom wheels and how they are used is different because the cut is much more controlled than offhand grinding.
I am looking at setting up diamond wheels for finishing of my tools. Rough grinding if required using the bench grinder


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 12, 2018)

I'm really going back to your previous dilemmas with boring tools - or whatever.
There is precious little to fault Hall's book except that things are changing and probably adding diamond and CBM would help you enormously.
However, I would suggest that you read and absorb John Moran's GadgetBuilder.com's web pages.
I've been over the text etc and - whilst I may take issue about the Deckel clone, you would benefit from the two simple jigs as starting points.  The little amount of effort required to make and use them means that if they don't suit you that you haven't lost much. 

Again, I strongly suspect that your previous efforts have been thwarted by your failure to do as Tom Walshaw wrote as Tubal Cain, it is all to do or not to do with that little bit at the end of the tool that matters.
I would seriously suggest that you 'black in' the little bit with a waterproof marker and hone it away with diamond paste or film. Conrad Hoffman - I've mentioned him before- gives a blow by blow discourse in his Advanced Tool Sharpening site.

If you want to make turnings which are barely dust and your work shine as well as 'mike' try Walshawand Hoffman.

I think that attention to the final honing would help you enormously.

Let me know

Norman


----------



## Entropy455 (Dec 12, 2018)

For sharpening brazed carbide bits, use a green Silicon Carbide wheel for rough shaping, and a Diamond wheel to dress the finial cutting edge. (bench grinder with each wheel type per end). For sharpening HSS bits, use aluminum oxide wheels only (bench grinder with one coarse and one fine aluminum oxide wheel). Do not sharpen HSS with Silicon Carbide or Diamond wheels. 

Never grind on the side of a grinding wheel unless it’s specifically advertised as being design/rated for side loading. Bench-grinding wheels designed for cutting on the side, in lieu of just the outside face exist, but these are not common, and typically cost more.

Custom sharpening equipment will use custom wheels (cup, plate, other. . .) whereas bench grinders use standard wheels. The advantage to custom sharpening equipment is that there’s normally precision jigs for tool positioning. The disadvantage to custom sharpening equipment is the high cost.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Universal-Knife-Grinder/G2790

Grizzly sells a sharpener for use with side-loaded wheels. They also sell just the wheels. This unit (linked above) is intended to sharpen planer and jointer knives, but can also be used as a side-loaded bench grinder wheel.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 12, 2018)

ITMA!

I have a CBN wheel with a 160 grit  which will do both hss and carbides. Using a green grit is a first class way to fill the workshop with clouds of grit.

As for steel and diamonds and the alleged destruction of the carbon with heat, it is simply an old wives tale and sadly Entropy has joined the knitting or nothing circle. 

Here again, practice and theory differ. With care, a worker with little experience can use diamonds and more importantly, create a mirror like tool edge which- as we know( or not) impart and equally mirror-like finish to the work. 

What has to be avoided is the negative tool angles often on cemented carbide inserts which  give the necessary rigidity and horse power to push away unwanted metal.  I have no doubt that  the normal home workshop small model maker's lathe does not have either attribute .

Again, I am writing for the amateur and not for those who sadly have to earn their pennies on  large machines. Someone has to but this is a hobby- no more.

Years ago, I actually made bonds for abrasive wheels and also  help design tungsten carbide cutters for cutting 
rockwool- for an American company who was having problems on their Dankhaert machines . Happily, not sadly, I put my sliderule away and went on to playing with counting beans for a while until I said 'Enough, I have enough' and raised two middle aged fingers to having to work- for someone else.

Incidentally, I have a Clarkson, a Quorn which I made, a Kennet, a Stent that someone made by welding( and died) and I'm playing with one of these Chinese Deckel things with two types of diamond wheels and a 80 grit ordinary wheel.  I also dabble in Goneostats and ornamental turning but I'm writing for a young? person with limited experience and success.

Yah Sucks??? Is that the expression?

Norm


----------



## Entropy455 (Dec 12, 2018)

goldstar31 said:


> ---and sadly Entropy has joined the knitting or nothing circle.​


​​​Another condescending & passive-aggressive jab - real classy...​
Naiveambition, it's best to use some sort of dust collector system when using grinding wheels inside. A shop-vac with high efficiency filter works well. Another option is to use a small duct & blower, and simply discharge the air outside (what I do for welding fumes, and grinding dust). If you live in an area with nice weather year-round, you can always put your bench grinder outside under an awning.

I'm not sure what goldstar is referring to with diamonds and heat??? Aluminum oxide sharpening HSS just fine, and diamond wheels are quite expensive.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 12, 2018)

Entropy455 said:


> ​Another condescending & passive-aggressive jab - real classy...​
> I'm not sure what goldstar is referring to with diamonds and heat??? Aluminum oxide sharpening HSS just fine, and diamond wheels are quite expensive.



Not bad for a kid who left school at 14 after what was a miserable war time education- so Thank you!

Diamonds  are pure carbon and therefore there is a faction that claims that the heat generated in grinding a diamond wheel will be quickly destroyed.  I amongst many others  does not subscribe.  As for price, diamond or more correctly synthetic ones is remarkably cheap and if you had followed the excellent advice of Bazmak ear lier you would have read how cheap these wheels (and- pastes) are.

 When they were dear, my first one came from a firm which shaped lenses and somewhat tenuously, my wife who was a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons played bari sax with an optician who played base clarinet who had an 'in' with the local optical works and -- I wasn't one to miss an opportunity! Sadly, neither person is now with us but the diamond wheel is . I went back to help an nonagenarian who had built a 'Long wheel base' Stent tool and cutter grinder and he still has his. We often re-sharpen TC masonry drills- being Old Age pensioners and short of disposable income. ( Ahem!)

So that NA if you are still with us, I suggested that you access Gadget Builder.com and he built a Brooks -Stent from the writings of Derek Brooks and was published in Model Engineers Workshop issues 16 and 17.
I still have copies on file.  But reading on, Brooks used his machine to grind needle valves for his model engines.
I have the 'short ' Stent which was weld fabricated from  mild steel sections and like the misconceptions of steel rubbing against steel works remarkably well.

So NA, you have long and hand on experience.

Norm A


----------



## DJP (Dec 12, 2018)

I  built a grinder and jig using a cup wheel to sharpen milling cutter end flutes. My conclusion is that 80% of the result is obtained with 20% of the effort and that is sufficient for my level of hobby machining. Twist drills can be sharpened off hand and carbide bits returned to shape with a green wheel.

These are all low budget solutions but acceptable to me without the need to buy a new cutting bit when the old ones become dull or chipped.

My thoughts for the discussion.


----------



## BillWood (Dec 12, 2018)

Hello,

I have recently started using a diamond disk, they seem to work very well with HSS and are discussed in various forums on the internet, you can get the tiny little ones for use on Dremel type tools of the big 6" ones for use on bench grinders

Fairly cheap compared to AlOx wheels.

Try here for starters to have a look at what is available  

https://www.ebay.com.au/str/THK-Diamond-Tools/Diamond-Flat-Lap-Disc/_i.html?_storecat=3920503013

Worth browsing the other products whilst you are there.

I use a 6" one backed up by a disk of MDF - you could use steel or even a Alox wheel as a backing plate - then maybe you could "safely" grind on the side of the wheel and have the other bit as well ?

I have used one of those  little 4" "diamond" cups for $5ish but the word is that they are CBN not diamond but who cares ? However I fairly quickly rubbed all the diamonds off the resin. Like anything there will be good quality products and bad quality products $5 was probably too cheap. Other people have reported they have had good use out of these little wheels.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/100x20x...=item4d84218b12:g:tzMAAOSw~xtcCNX1:rk:89:pf:0

Bill


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 12, 2018)

Bill
 Even with a $5 wheel wearing out quickly, it is still cheaper than replacing cheap carbide tips.
Regarding your rather odd configuration prompts me to mention that it could have been converted to utilise a series of progressively finer grades of synthetic diamond pastes driven at a safe speed.

It isn't new or whatever, in the days of first lathes like Maudsley's and Holzapffel, people graded their own grits and used them on walrus hide.  My father used a long leather belt impregnated with stuff from corroding lead ingots to do his own hollow ground cutthroat razors. None of the forgoing would be acceptable today  but there is the grain of a sensible practice.

As said earlier, I have a couple of Myfords but when I bought a Vertex dividing head and tailstock, I got an undrilled cast iron face plate- and I often squirt a drop or two selected grade diamond paste, spread out with the help of a little more lard oil and get the mirror cutting edge  by driving it on a lathe spindle nosewhich I suggested earlier to Naiveambition.
It may not follow accepted engineering practices- but it did.

Cheers

N


----------



## Naiveambition (Dec 12, 2018)

Thanx everyone one for their posts.  Goldstar, As I've been working thru the issue of cutter grinding, I have noticed a few issues with the lathe.  My setup for gearing is 40 threads per inch, and what I'm seeing is the actual thread using a non threading tip.  My finish is very consistent just not slow enough feed.    When I did a inline boring, my tool had a flat point wider than the 40 tpi, and it gave great results.  
 So as I work on a finer feed, I need to sharpen my drills. The end mill sharpening is to hopefully save some money.  I do have a bad habit of not closely following feeds and speeds and tend to dull my milling cutters prematurely. Inexperience obviously, but if the machine isa shaking I back her down. Surely that transmits to the work.
I have pretty much every time honed my tools but am still missing that sweet little move that brings it all together.   I felt I needed a more controlled approach to grinding offhand. I have done it, but with a 1-10 ratio    Drill bits- well let's not even go there 
I plan a dedicated  grinder for mainly drills and lathe tools. And a toolpost grinder adapted to another setup similar to a cutter grinder.
Although completely off the post I would like to say that I love learning from older fellows with the experience,  and freely giving a lifetime of knowledge to us inexperienced ones.  And as there will be disagreements among the posters, we must remember we all messed up along the way. I've been told while learning,  you often learn more of what not to do than what to do. This site to me is like having a thousand grandparents that know machining, so keep it up


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 13, 2018)

NA- I hope that by now that you are making one of the simple jigs which will avoid you  rounding off cutting edges. Probably you should scrap both wheels which came with  your double ended grinder and substitute something like a CBN wheel  at one end and a softish 80 grit at the other. Then scrap the usually hopeless rests with something stronger- and bigger.

I've got the machines but often cheat with a 600 grit diamond flat 'stone'- by hand.  This is generally what the old hands do but I suggest that you avoid such measures as you are learning.

As for cutting threads of 48 tpi, surely  there is a mod or arrangement to make finer threads.  Maybe a better banjo which will take another set of reducing gears in the banjo.

Keep me posted

Norman


----------



## BillWood (Dec 13, 2018)

goldstar31 said:


> Bill
> 
> As said earlier, I have a couple of Myfords but when I bought a Vertex dividing head and tailstock, I got an undrilled cast iron face plate- and I often squirt a drop or two selected grade diamond paste, spread out with the help of a little more lard oil and get the mirror cutting edge  by driving it on a lathe spindle nosewhich I suggested earlier to Naiveambition.
> It may not follow accepted engineering practices- but it did.
> ...



Goldstar,

I am  interested in your honing process - what grits of diamond paste do you use ? 

I did a scraping course in Melbourne a few years ago and the process you describe above was how they sharpened the carbide scraper blades.

I have had people tell me that after honing they can shave a hairs off their arm with the honed HSS tool, I have never been able to do this and honing has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I searched previous posts and note that you recommend Ian Bradley's book Shaping Machine and Lathe Tools but that is very hard to find at a reasonable cost at this moment.

Bill


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 13, 2018)

Greetings Bill and Thank You for your comments.
 Years ago, I bought a collection of syringes from Ebay.  I tend to use the green stuff but obviously  there is finer stuff. 

Certainly, there is the ability to shave hairs. 
Really, you should have a number of hones impregnated with the various grades and work from coarse to the finest. It's rather like using. a succession of graded abrasive papers when doing a car repaint.

Going back to Bradley, he also wrote  'The Grinding Book'. Again, a bit old fashioned but golddust.

Incidentally, Connelly's Machine Tool Reconditioning is available on the net. 

Does this help

Norman


----------



## Entropy455 (Dec 13, 2018)

I spoke with a toolmaker at work yesterday (these guys sharpen tooling for a living). Carbide bits are sharpened with Silicon Carbide wheels, and final polished with Diamond wheels. HSS bits are sharpened  with Aluminum Oxide wheels only. If a fine razor's edge is needing on an HSS tool, they final-dress it with a CBN wheel (which looks identical in construction to the diamond wheels - obviously a different abrasive material). I asked specifically what happens if you try to cut/polish HSS tooling on a diamond wheel. He said "HSS will gum-up a diamond wheel." I forgot to ask how they sharpen 
cobalt bits.

Interestingly, they've got about 30 sharpening machines in the toolmaker's bay (about 20 x 150 foot room). Only three machines have a coolant provision. Everything is normally cut dry, where the wheels turn fast. There is a central dust collecting system that draws air in parallel from the wheels of each machine (with exception of the water-cooled machines).


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 13, 2018)

My electric and gas   are off and being annual serviced.

So a bit more

I suggest that you Google  Home Shop Machinist- or join and add 'diamond pastes'

One is Mirror Finishes- Fact or Fiction. You'll enjoy it.

I might come up as Ravensworth2674.

There's a helluva a lot of good but old stuff on tool and cutter grinder


Cheers again

N


----------



## BaronJ (Dec 13, 2018)

Hi Naiveambition,



Naiveambition said:


> i am setting up a grinder station to grind my tools and have ?s regarding wheel types used.
> The drill sharpener says to use the side of the reg. wheel



I'm a bit late into this thread, but never mind 

As far as using the side of the wheel is concerned, it is not a problem !

Consider that you are grinding a drill on the side of the wheel,  the forces are so low as to be almost non existent.  Now if you were doing something that required heavy pressure, certainly more than just sharpening a drill, then that would be a definite NO.  Use the front of the wheel.


----------



## BaronJ (Dec 13, 2018)

Hi Bill,
 JMTPW,



BillWood said:


> I have used one of those little 4" "diamond" cups for $5ish but the word is that they are CBN not diamond but who cares ? However I fairly quickly rubbed all the diamonds off the resin. Like anything there will be good quality products and bad quality products $5 was probably too cheap. Other people have reported they have had good use out of these little wheels.



I have and have used several of these 100 mm cup wheels.  I've found that they could be either diamond or CBN.  I think the problem with the diamond ones, is that people use far too much pressure and simply rub the diamonds off.  The CBN ones seem to be a matrix of abrasive embedded in the carrier, and seem to survive better.  The other thing is they are often run too slow.  Somewhere around 5K rpm is a better speed, but most people put them on an induction motor shaft running at 2800 rpm.  Certainly for tool sharpening the higher speeds are preferred.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 13, 2018)

I was thinking about the tool and cutter grinder that Eccentric Engineering sells.
Bazmak made but there is an interesting video of the designer using a Double Ended 6" grinder with a softish stone??? 80 grit and a CBN on t'other. 

For the helluv-it I bough something similar from axminster tools and chucked   a 36grit paving stone off one end and substituted a 160Grit  CBN .

And then I had a recall of memory and probably the cheapest and easiest to build- for Canuks and the US is Norman Tinker's Tinker - plans from Canada. Can be made from bar metal as well as castings.  

Me? No but I have the placed littered with tool and cutter grinders already


----------



## ignator (Dec 13, 2018)

goldstar31 said:


> Norman Tinker's Tinker


Is this what the Tinker tool and cutter grinder attachment looks like? (found at http://www.lautard.com/tinker.htm)





I found this on Lautard.com, which I found from 2006 posts on _home shop machinist_ web site when searching for "Norman Tinker's Tinker" you referenced. They comment on Lautard getting a copyright to Tinker's design.
It appears even there some heated discussions of proper use of bench grinders.
I've owned a cheap Double ended grinder I purchased from a now defunct machine tool seller (Enco) many years ago. It came with green Silicon Carbide wheels. Which would erode away with very light grinding use. So I replaced them with diamond wheels that Enco had on sale. They still are usable, but the fine grit looks almost clean of any diamonds.
I use this for mainly brazed insert carbide. I don't know if it's because I'm overheating the carbide, but I typically don't see the same life once re-sharpened, and chipping seems to be an issue. I found quenching in water to be a big mistake with carbide. I do some HSS on the diamond wheels as well. 
I'm probably doing everything wrong per some posts in this thread, but I'm not too old to learn a correct way.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 13, 2018)

I have or had an official set of plans - back to when Norman Tinker was directly responsible.  I also had a set of the THREE castings. For some reason,I didn't make it. Probably, I opted for the Quorn n which is clearly more difficult but an excellent 'masterpiece'. It is supposed to be copied from the Deckel aabout which I cannot argue but I now have Chinese Deckel clone. This has more about it than the Deckel/Alexander and there is yet again a really large set of videos and write  ups- which I am following.

Like for like, the Quorn has a very similar copy called the Bonelle but made from bar stock. It does look the bees knees!


----------



## Naiveambition (Dec 13, 2018)

I did run across a YouTube video showing reuse of insert cutters. The interesting thing was he took the top side and ground down into the insert, that removed any rake or chip cutter.  Ended up similar to a flat carbide insert, while maintaining strength. I do think he used coolant and a diamond wheel.



Harold's book showed up last nite and with some reading, I noticed he also used the side of the wheel in a quite a few applications.  I'm leaning heavily to buying a cup wheel for sanity sake, but do agree with y'all that I could get away with it, I just work better when my hairs aren't standing up. And can't make tools sharp enough to cut them down yet

So alum oxide only hss, does cobalt also fall here?
Green wheels for inserts and glued carbide
Diamond to clean up after carbide roughing, or finishing
Sounds good. I will order them.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 13, 2018)

I think that you should be concentrating on--- getting the first hss knife tool working- Properly


----------



## Entropy455 (Dec 13, 2018)

goldstar31 said:


> As for being a poor benighted so and so at a grinding machine for the rest of his life- you must really be joking. Life should be better than that- mine is.



That’s a pretty pompous-ass thing to say Norm. A lot of my friends at work have chosen the honorable profession of machinist. They stand at lathes, mills, and yes - even tooling grinders – all day long to earn their paychecks.

Question – multiple times you’ve stated that I purchased junk machinery that will only result in lowering my neighbor’s property value. This is puzzling to me, considering my machines are tucked away inside my shop, and people my must literally drive onto my property to even see my shop (not to mention I’m surrounded primarily by forest land). But even if what you said were true, why say it? And why say it more than once? It's seems you must relentlessly jab at others in order to stroke your own ego.

I'm trying to take this all with a grain of salt – considering the last time you insulted my shop equipment, your subsequent post was to claim that your lathe is the Rolls Royce of the metal working industry. I’m trying to figure out if you’re joking, and perhaps the joke is going right over my head - or if you’re really just being a jerk. I’m hoping you can clear this up for me. . . .?


----------



## Entropy455 (Dec 13, 2018)

Naiveambition said:


> So alum oxide only hss, does cobalt also fall here?



I asked the toolmakers today specifically about sharpening cobalt steels. They sharpen using the same process for HSS.


----------



## XD351 (Dec 14, 2018)

Entropy455 said:


> That’s a pretty pompous-ass thing to say Norm. A lot of my friends at work have chosen the honorable profession of machinist. They stand at lathes, mills, and yes - even tooling grinders – all day long to earn their paychecks.
> 
> Question – multiple times you’ve stated that I purchased junk machinery that will only result in lowering my neighbor’s property value. This is puzzling to me, considering my machines are tucked away inside my shop, and people my must literally drive onto my property to even see my shop (not to mention I’m surrounded primarily by forest land). But even if what you said were true, why say it? And why say it more than once? It's seems you must relentlessly jab at others in order to stroke your own ego.
> 
> I'm trying to take this all with a grain of salt – considering the last time you insulted my shop equipment, your subsequent post was to claim that your lathe is the Rolls Royce of the metal working industry. I’m trying to figure out if you’re joking, and perhaps the joke is going right over my head - or if you’re really just being a jerk. I’m hoping you can clear this up for me. . . .?



Still haven't seen a picture of this mythical " Rolls Royce " of lathes or any of Normans workshop equipment ! 
Wish i could look out of my shop and enjoy the view you have though !


----------



## XD351 (Dec 14, 2018)

I think in the long run there has been too much bullshit added to this string that the OP must be wondering why they even asked the question .
I know there are specific types and grades of wheel for each type of materal to be graound - do i adhere to this ? No ! I just used what came with the grinder , usually aluminium oxide and i have used this to sharpen HSS and carbide although carbide is a bit of a chore it got it done .  I built the harold hall unit and can confirm it works well , is easy to make and cost little compared to a deckel clone or quorn casting set . One needs to remember we are model engineers not a job shop so with careful use cutter sharpening can be minimised and as for lapping - are you serious ? Sounds like something a wanker would do ! HSS and carbide tools are ground then honed lightly with an oilstone and that is it so you can stick your mirror finish where the sun doesn't shine - aint nobody got time for that !


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 14, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## XD351 (Dec 14, 2018)

What has yor personal life got to do with this forum ? This seems to be a re occuring thing with you  when you are confronted with telling the truth .
If this forum is your only contact with the outside world thats fine , i and along with many other users of the forum look forward to conversing with you and the many others who can no longer use their workshop for whatever reason and I'm always willing to learn from those who came before me - but please keep your personal life to yourself until asked about it . If indeed you have all this equipment that you say you do then post a few pics , maybe someone will make an offer on a few things .


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 14, 2018)

I'm going too blind really to use it so a fabricated Stent.   £100 to collect from Newcastle upon Tyne, England.
 The £100 will go to Ovarian Cancer charity!   Be quick or it will be dumped.

More bargains to come.


----------



## Naiveambition (Dec 18, 2018)

ok fellows, some follow up on this post.    I ordered the three wheels you see here. 


I do have a ? Regarding mounting.  
I assumed I would need to make arbors to center fit the grinder shaft to the wheel center hole.   How much coverage is needed on the wheel. The plate mount has 4 mount holes, so is this the proper way to mount or just specific to certain grinders?  Do I need backing plates to run these.  I know I will on the 4 inch cup wheel.  But the plate mount, I searched for info but couldn't locate anything useful


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 19, 2018)

Initially, I have no idea of what the regulations for the use of grinding wheels is in the USA but here in the UK, the Health and Safety regulations run to a whole 53 pages.  However, I have no doubt that similar guidance  exists for you and might I suggest that you also take notice. A broken wheel can travel at a modest 280 miles an hour!  Need I say much more?

Yes, our regulations do briefly cover most of the points that you have raised. 

I hope that writing the foregoing is not only in concern for your safety but to other users here.

Regards

Norman


----------



## ignator (Dec 19, 2018)

Naiveambition said:


> ok fellows, some follow up on this post.    I ordered the three wheels you see here.
> View attachment 106236
> 
> I do have a ? Regarding mounting.
> I assumed I would need to make arbors to center fit the grinder shaft to the wheel center hole.   How much coverage is needed on the wheel. The plate mount has 4 mount holes, so is this the proper way to mount or just specific to certain grinders?  Do I need backing plates to run these.  I know I will on the 4 inch cup wheel.  But the plate mount, I searched for info but couldn't locate anything useful


Those 2 larger wheels are intended for this machine:





I don't know if you are in the USA, but this is an affordable machine;
https://allindustrial.com/87-002-335-6-carbide-grinder/


----------



## Naiveambition (Dec 19, 2018)

Through my info research I think I ran across a thread using these wheels on a everyday grinder., but also with a made backplate.    The pic seems to show a backing plate , and seems to use the center hole for placement and four holes for mounting.   
So for safety sake I will add a plate and new guards, and see what happens.  I've never had a grind wheel come apart, and can gladly say I don't want a first!   If it doesn't work out I can look for this style grinder later on?       
I must be using the wrong search words when finding useful info on theses grinder mounts. Even pics are few and far between


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 19, 2018)

Ignoring  your ideas- good or bad, there is a way of producing angles of tool bits with nothing but a pair of decent wheels and a flat area- perhaps made of 'oh so expensive  scrap wood or metal-- and believe me it is dead simple.

so you have a very cheap 'common or garden 6" grinder with decent wheels replacing the usual crap and you want an angle  ground.
So you want a 7 degree angle( Typical of a of of angles in grinding lathe tools) and want to use the periphery of the wheel and a flat surface( from the centre of the spindle)

Your packing to get is is the constant 0.0088" in your math(s) so to get 7 degrees you multiply

0.0088"  times 6" ( your wheel diameter) and 7( your desired angle) and you get 0.369"( I think).

OK that is not a very useful thing in say wood but  a few thous different is 0.375" or more useful figure of 3/8th of an inch and your drop or raise your packing that amount from the spindle centre. and there you have it.

one clean angle 7 degrees- with less time than I have typed.

The constant 0.0088 remains constant and assuming that you still have a 6"  wheel and want 10 degrees the math remains

0.0088 x 6 and now 10 and you get 0.528"  which is about a half an inch in practical terms.

This , believe it or not,  dispenses with all the fancy charts which are published and people play sticky to how they arrived at the figures.

Quite simply, try it- and be pleasantly surprised.

Norman.

Now I have rather too many tool and cutter grinders but  one day I came home with what was once a VERY expensive Clarkson that changed hands at a little more than 100 dollars- oh I got an electric chuck thrown in but no Clarkson tooling. I made up a set of wooden 2x2" tool holders held down with penny washers and a long bolt with wing nut--- and happily re-ground my existing  but then worn lathe tools.

One way, but others work too


----------



## ignator (Dec 19, 2018)

Naiveambition said:


> Through my info research I think I ran across a thread using these wheels on a everyday grinder., but also with a made backplate.    The pic seems to show a backing plate , and seems to use the center hole for placement and four holes for mounting.
> So for safety sake I will add a plate and new guards, and see what happens.  I've never had a grind wheel come apart, and can gladly say I don't want a first!   If it doesn't work out I can look for this style grinder later on?
> I must be using the wrong search words when finding useful info on theses grinder mounts. Even pics are few and far between


You should be able to fabricate a mounting plate that these will mount on. The center 1-1/4" hole fits over a pilot on the motor arbor, so that feature is important. The 4 small holes use a flat head screws (on my wheels) that I think are 1/4"-28. Metric substitutions will work if you have the taps.
The important features are the bored hole for your grinder arbor, that is concentric to the pilot for the plate mounted grinding wheels you purchased.
I've never seen the specifications for this mount. I'm sure it exists in some SAE/ANSI document. And these are not free.
The big thing missing is the double ended machines are reversible for left and right tool grinding. That and the tool rest will need to be fabricated by you so you can adjust the clearance and rake cutting angles.


----------

