# beginner wondering about lathes



## doransignal (Feb 2, 2011)

I am new to machining and wondering If i should try to find an old one to restore or go with the low end china stuff? I like the SHOPMASTER PATRIOT. but 5000 dollars i think not. It use to be about 1700. I want a good one but a resonable Price.
Any help for a Beginner?

thanks,
Lee


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## Drei (Feb 2, 2011)

I have a Chinese lathe with the milling attachment which i dont relally recommand the mill combimation. In my opinion if you are looking for accuracy you can achieve it with these lathes but as durability you have to take alott of care and caution while machining.. I know youre situation because am also a begginer tahts why i bought a lathe with the mill attachment obviously becasue of the price. I have a weiss lathe and i think as far as i know that is quite good for a chinese. There are others chinese lathes which are a scrap at the first monent you see them for example a sticker indicationg the tool post degresee it kills me my friend  ...At the moment i am very happy with the lathe but i searching for a mill... Dont rush with youre chose thats the only certain thing.

Drei


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 2, 2011)

You're on the wrong forum to start out by bad-mouthing Chinese lathes. Many of our members get by just fine with machines you are labelling CHINA CRUD. Buy what you want, but take your bad mouthing somewhere else. If it wasn't for inexpensive Chinese machines, many of us wouldn't be able to afford to be in this hobby!!!


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## Metal Butcher (Feb 2, 2011)

doransignal  said:
			
		

> I am new to machining and wondering If i should try to find an old one to restore or go with the china crud? I like the SHOPMASTER PATRIOT. but 5000 dollars i think not. It use to be about 1700. I want a good one but a resonable Price.
> Any help for a Beginner?
> 
> thanks,
> Lee



I would recommend starting out by taking an honest look at what size projects or type of work you intend on doing.

If your 'new' to machining starting out with smaller machines to learn the basics on, and decide if this is something you can learn to do, and enjoy might be the smart way to go. Are you planning on going to school to learn the basics? Are you planning on buying books to teach your self the basics?

Tell us more about what your interested in building. Do you have any back ground in machining at all? Have you made any projects using hand tools such as a file, hack saw, and drill press? Do you know how to use a micrometer? 

Running out and buying a machine on some ones recommendation is not a good first step.

I'm not tying to discourage you. I would be more than happy to tell you which machine(s) to buy. But I have no information to base a recommendation(s) on.

-MB


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## cl350rr (Feb 2, 2011)

My recommendation for someone just getting into machining is take a few classes at the local community college or find someone who will teach you how to safely operate a lathe. when I taught folks I would always make them come to me with a realistic beginners project they wanted to make, then guide them through the headwork, setup and such so they had a reason to learn the different ways the machine is used. 

If you can complete a project on a lathe before purchasing your own, it will teach you alot about what you want/need in a machine. you will be much more satisfied with your first.

just my $.02

welcome to the hobby

Randel


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## bearcar1 (Feb 2, 2011)

Yes, I have a suggestion for you Lee, and welcome to HMEM. Do not be in a rush to purchase. Shop around and give some consideration into what size of lathe that you foresee yourself using in say 5yrs. If you can envision making larger pieces than bying one of the mini-lathes that are on the market would possibly be a mistake as you would outgrow it in short order. After that, also consider the cost of the tooling that your selected machine will require and its availability. I'm rather partial to South Bend, Monarch, and Myford machines but there are others that will/do perform equally as well. Shop around and get a feel for what is available in the marketplace, keeping costs in mind. Buying a lathe at a good price is a plus but if it is 1000mi. away, getting it delivered or picking it up can become an offsetting problem at best. Then there is the "Do I have the resources to move the beast" question. Do you. Take your time and do your homework, you will likely have to look at several machines before you find the "right one", both in condition and price. It's similar to purchasing a new vehicle. You do not say where you are located but if you can, go to estate sales or shop going out of business sales. Often times that equipment is in reasonable condition and can be gotten for a good price. Remember what I said about tooling. Restoring an old machine may be fine for someone that has the knowhow to do it but for a beginner, I would stay away from that exercise unless a competent person with machine experience can be there for assistance. (not the brother in-law either, I said competent person) ;D Another thing to consider is what type of power does the machine require ei: 110 single or 220 three phase and is that available to you. Again, do not let this stop you from making a decision but keep in mind that any type(s) of conversion process will require added casts and or tradeoffs in performance. A lathe with "Vee" ways is a bit more desirable over one that has flat ways. Having a quick change gearbox for threading is a nice feature as well but not a deal breaker. (some utilize a series of manual interchangeable wheels). I don't mean to be talking down to you if you already understand these things and I apologize if that is how I sound, I just wanted to point out some of the things that can go wrong when buying that first machine in case that you did not. Good luck, let us know what we can do to help answer your questions and be sure to tell us a little bit about your metal working interests or skill level. Above all, be safe and have some fun.

BC1
Jim


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## Philjoe5 (Feb 2, 2011)

I would suggest you NOT buy an Oriental made lathe. Your reference to them as "china crud" will make it all too easy to fault the tool not the operator every time you make a bad part. Instead of trying to learn why the part was made poorly it will be easy to blame the machine.

As Brain stated, many forum members here have made highly complex and sophisticated mechanical devices using lathes made in the Orient.


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## chads (Feb 2, 2011)

I purchased my lathe and mill from Grizzly Tools about 15 years ago. They are still going strong with many hours on them. I started without any experience. Then took a couple night classes and picked up alot more knowledge. Good luck with your purchase and have fun


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## Ken I (Feb 2, 2011)

I have a no name brand Chinese lathe and mini-mill and while I bad mouth the equipment occasionally it was a well informed choice as to value for money. Yes there are always somethings that could / should have been better.

You will not hear me bad mouthing the work that comes off them - because that's my workmanship / fault - not the machine's.

Heed the advice of the first reply - if the scales are stickers - forget it.

Ken


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## ironman (Feb 2, 2011)

Welcome and I agree with what most are saying. With more emphasis on what Brian and Troutsqueezer said. wEc1  th_wwp


ironman (Ray)


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## doransignal (Feb 2, 2011)

maybe i should of started this thread with which tool will i get the most bang for my buck?


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## Foozer (Feb 2, 2011)

I hadn't seen a lathe since some 40+ years ago, was fun then and thought it would be fun now, and it is. For me a HF unit would be an upgrade as I'm using an old Craftsman 109 AKA "Boat Anchor." It does however have one redeeming feature. It was free. Now when the day comes that I can make more good pieces than bad, perhaps a newer machine will be in order.

Point is, get something to get your feet wet with, see if you actually want to spend the coin for the upgrades, I have enough spur of the moment, I can do projects around to last me a life time. All sadly sitting in the garage as interest waned.

No doubt there is a certain therapeutic quality to turning a hunk of metal into a work of art (subjective of course) It is however, more the quality of the operator than it is the machine.

Robert


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## Troutsqueezer (Feb 2, 2011)

ironman  said:
			
		

> Welcome and I agree with what most are saying. With more emphasis on what Brian and Troutsqueezer said. wEc1  th_wwp
> 
> 
> ironman (Ray)



I don't like to say unkind things so I withdrew my post. I am now wondering however, how many more engines I will be able to make before my "chinese crud" falls apart and kills me. :big:


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 2, 2011)

It is never a good idea to go seeking advice from people and then insult them all in the same breath. However, I was young once too, and often opened my mouth only to change feet, so I'm going to cut you some slack. I have a Chinese 10" x 18" lathe (B227L) from BusyBee tools in Canada and a CT129 Chinese mill from the same outfit. They are absolutely marvelous machines for the price.---Would they stand up in a high production environment???----Probably not. Are they good hobby machines??---Definitly!! I have produced many engines, both steam and internal combustion with them, and I am very pleased with both machines. BusyBee only sells in canada, but as I understand it, the person who owns BusyBee has a brother in USA who sells an equivalent machine under a different name.--Perhaps some other member can tell you what they are, because I can't remember.---Brian


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## Maryak (Feb 2, 2011)

doransignal  said:
			
		

> I came to this site to hopefully get some more information and ideas on equipment. It seems that some people find it better to attack someones opinions than give some good advice.



Biased remarks which appear to be based on ignorance such as China Crud are IMHO not an ideal way to seek advise. All of us with Asian machinery are somewhat wary of offering anything helpful.



> I ment no harm just tring to find out information. I have no background in machining.



That's good to know. 

At the outset Chinese and to a lesser extent Taiwanese machinery was substandard when compared to the well known South Bend, Myford, Colchester, and Hercus brands favoured by model engineers. Much like the early Japanese products were. As we all know Japanese products are now very highly regarded. China has not yet made this leap to prominence but in terms of overall value for money their hobby/small metalworking machines are hard to beat.

The capital outlay for machinery is just a start, tooling, tools and more tooling, tools and accessories also play a large part in gobbling up the hobby dollar.

Good Luck in your quest to find some machinery.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Layne (Feb 2, 2011)

If you've never used a Hardinge lathe, you really cannot appreciate how bad the chinese machines really are. The difference is literally as big as the price difference, a new Hardinge is currently $70,000. Obviously the memebers of this forum and thousands of other people have proven that the chinese machines are adequate, especially for hobby useage. If I had to use one at work all day I would pull my hair out. Making accurate parts on them is a chore. That's not to say you shouldn't buy one. Most hobbyists have to choose between a $1,000 lathe or none at all, not choose between a $1,000 lathe and a $70,000 lathe. They are definitely better than no lathe at all.


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## lathe nut (Feb 2, 2011)

Lee, I bought a used Atlas 12" lathe price real right, parts real worn did not know any better at the time, so my wife bought me the 7X10 HF lathe in 1997 to make some parts for the Atlas, I love the little machine it does great work and does not make mistakes I do, it has have been trouble free and since have picked up another for fifty dollars, had a burnt fuse, I also bought the 14X40 now that a real nice machine with all one needs and super accurate, so get what you can afford and work your way up and there is all the help one needs with this group of people, they are a well spring of wisdom, good luck and have fun, Lathe Nut


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## jct842 (Feb 2, 2011)

I am a beginner. for a couple years I drooled over the southbends that people said could be had for cheap. I looked and looked and never once found one I could afford. Had I bought the 7x12 lathe and the micro mill then, I would have 2 more years of experience using them. I kind of wish I would have spent more and got the mini mill instead but I am still learning how to use what I have. If I did not go chinese I would not have anything except desires right now. If I had to replace them I would go to LMS and get the lathe and mill they sell. john


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## cl350rr (Feb 2, 2011)

it is highly unlikely that your first lathe will be ideal or the last lathe you buy (assuming you continue machining). my first lathe didn't even have provision for power feed. no change gears... nada. I spent more time making parts for it than making other things but I learned alot about that lathe, it left my hands in much better condition than I got it and I had a very good idea what I wanted in the next lathe. I am now on my 6th and none of them were new.

Randel


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## Layne (Feb 3, 2011)

You guys talk about southbend like it's a great lathe. It's not, but it's a good lathe. Accuracy is about on par with a modern chinese lathe. Chinese ones have a lot of swithces that break and handles that fall off, so it is a little better in that regard. The southbend I have at work is a good little lathe with a lot of cool accesories, and I'd love to have it at home to play with, but it just has plain bronze spindle bearings. They clearly weren't even trying to make an accurate lathe. The Hardinge has grade 7 spindle bearings with a 90mm OD. Spindle runout is guaranteed to be within 25 millionths of an inch.


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## wareagle (Feb 3, 2011)

Gentlemen, let's keep the discussion civil.


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## Metal Butcher (Feb 3, 2011)

Layne  said:
			
		

> Obviously the memebers of this forum and thousands of other people have proven that the chinese machines are adequate, especially for hobby useage. If I had to use one at work all day I would pull my hair out. Making accurate parts on them is a chore. That's not to say you shouldn't buy one. Most hobbyists have to choose between a $1,000 lathe or none at all, not choose between a $1,000 lathe and a $70,000 lathe. They are definitely better than no lathe at all.



Hi Lane. That's true, but my Chinese lathe 'is more' than adequate. I absolutely love it, and it does exactly what its told to do. The only problem that I had was with tool post rigidity, I didn't think it was good enough, and that was a very simple fix.

On many occasions I have used my lathe all day, and at times day-after-day to make one accurate part after another. I don't understand why you say "making accurate parts on them is a chore.'

What is your lathe doing wrong? And which lathe do you have?

Sound to me like your saying you have a lot of experience with them. And that a potential buyer should heed your warning? 

Or should they go by this statement? "That's not to say you shouldn't buy one" 

I'm a little confused. scratch.gif

-MB


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## Cedge (Feb 3, 2011)

Lane has obviously never had to operate within the limited spaces many of us are stuck with using, not to mention budgetary constraints and electrical supply limitations. American iron is great stuff.... if you can justify owning it, but it pains me greatly to hear anyone take the stance that a chinese iron owner is somehow "less" because the tag on his machine doesn't say made in America. One good look around at what people on this forum have accomplished using "what they have" should be enough to quell all the "barely adequate" comments.  

I'm pleased Lane has access to the precision of a Hardinge, but that makes him no better machinist than the guy who can hold tolerances with his cheaper machines, be they Southbend or Harbor freight. Give that guy a Hardinge and he'll show you just what holding tolerance is all about.....LOL. 

Choosing machines that meet your own unique criteria is a personal decision and should never be based on the biased opinions of those who never walked a single step in your shoes. 

Steve


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## Layne (Feb 3, 2011)

Sorry for the confusion. We might have different definitions of accuracy... One time I had to make 200 parts with a bore that was +.0002" -.0000". On the best lathes, you can set the dial to zero, take the part out, take the tool out, put them back, run both axis all the way down and back, turn the dial to zero, and cut within .001 of where it was. That's just not going to happen on a chinese lathe. Making a part that is +-.001 takes a lot more measuring, this is why I call it a chore. That's even true of the 13" Clausing-Colchester I'm using now. Most of my chinese experience is with 3 MSC branded 9x30 lathes (same as many others, including grizzly) that are used in a student shop. Virtually every electrical switch has failed on them due to poor plastics. They're also strange sizes, so a little hard to replace. One motor burned out (showering sparks out of it's blowhole like a whale right in front of my face), and was irreplacable due to it's strange dimensions, so I had it re-wound. The students are not very skilled and tend to break a lot of roll pins and such, but that isn't the machine's fault. Would I buy one for a home shop? Yes. If one person uses it and takes care if it, they can be good and are a great value. Would I buy one for a student shop? Yes. They're just going to destroy it anyway regardless of how good it is and aren't going to make accurate parts either way. Would I buy one for myself to use at work? No. Some of the higher end tawainese stuff I would, but they're still pretty high dollar. There are no reasonably priced manual lathes being made on American soil anymore.


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## tel (Feb 3, 2011)

A Hardinge is better than a Chinese machine eh? That's really rather amusing, a bit like saying a Rolls Royce is better than a Toyota. But the acid test is this - Just how many miles have been covered by Rolls' _in toto_ as opposed to how many by Toyotas _in toto_.

Similarly how many model engines have been built on Hardinges v Oriental machines.

As much as most of us would likesomething like that, the majority of us live on _this_ planet.


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## Layne (Feb 3, 2011)

I never said a chinese iron owner is "less" and I certainly never said I was better than anyone else. I think you've all got me wrong. I am glad that the chinese machines are on the market and open the possibilty of lathe ownership to people that could not afford greater machines. I own a lot of hand tools from harbor frieght, I also own a few Milwaukee tools. Is there a difference? You bet there is. Both are good value for money, I just match the tool to what I need to do with it.


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## b.lindsey (Feb 3, 2011)

Well said Steve! I would love to have a Hardinge too as I'm sure we all would if price were no object. Their accuracy and tolerances are legendary at least new from the factory, but I have to muse...it would take a metrology lab many MANY times the cost of a Hardinge and very precise environmental controls to even be able to measure in those ranges. If +/- .001 or so works as it does for most of our type projects, its really becomes a stretch to justify a higher lever of accuracy (from the tool) without the means to measure it.

Bill


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## Cedge (Feb 3, 2011)

I'd agree with Lane on one point. If you have to run a mini lathe in a production environment, you'd best look for another job shop. 

What seems to have escaped from this discussion is the fact that this is a hobby/home shop forum, where reproduction/replication of mass parts is rarely the need. While I've certainly had to remake a few parts in my efforts, the goal was always to produce one part that was spot on. Ninety percent of those remakes were due to my own lack of skills as opposed to the capabilities of the machines.

As Bill stated, I too would love to own a Hardinge or even a nice Southbend, but all I've located were either ragged out or priced above my justification point. My little C4 will take a .0005 cut when I ask it to do so, but NASA seems to have lost my number and very few of my engine projects demand that level of accuracy....even fewer of my quick fix around the home/garage projects.

Lane.... hobby machining is a whole different world from production land and takes a very different and more tolerant mind set. 

Steve


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## Metal Butcher (Feb 3, 2011)

Layne  said:
			
		

> Sorry for the confusion. We might have different definitions of accuracy.



My 'confusion' was about the contradictory message you were sending about the quality of Asian lathes, And I'm not confused about your definition of accuracy or mine. Accuracy to me means making a part to a dimension within a specified tolerance, period. That could be any thing, including as much as plus or minus .010, or as little as .0001. I generally like to work to an accuracy with a tolerance of minus .0000" plus .0005". 

I have never made 200 parts, but I regularly make 5, 10, 15, and 20 accurate pieces. And when its called for I can, and have, made part after part that are within .0002" without any problem. I don't read the hand wheels on my lathe to achieve accurate results.They may or may not be highly accurate, I don't know, I don't care, and I don't use them. I use adjustable traveling rods and dial indicators with excellent results.

I live by this statement that I hold true. "Accuracy is in the hands of the operator, not the machine"

-MB


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## 1hand (Feb 3, 2011)

That's why I'm only half as accurate as MB. :big:


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## Cedge (Feb 3, 2011)

ROFL..... 1Hand, you'll do....LOL

Steve


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## metalmad (Feb 3, 2011)

1hand  said:
			
		

> That's why I'm only half as accurate as MB. :big:


u just crack me up buddy ;D
Pete


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## Metal Butcher (Feb 3, 2011)

1hand  said:
			
		

> That's why I'm only half as accurate as MB. :big:



Maybe so, but you have what it takes, and your twice as tough! :bow:

-MB


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## milotrain (Feb 3, 2011)

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> I live by this statement that I hold true. "Accuracy is in the hands of the operator, not the machine"



Of course it is. Les Paul could make you cry with a rubberband and a bucket but he invented a fantastic electric guitar for a reason. We make tools to make our lives easier. I have no doubt that given the time, patience and a proper set of measuring instruments you could make highly accurate (.0001") parts with a hand file and spit, but it would most certainly be a chore. From hand files up to Mitsu multi pallet 5axis machines, the work is still in the hands of the operator, but I'm saving up for a bandsaw not for accuracy but because I don't want to be lopsided anymore from hacksawing through SS barstock .

EDIT: the correlation with musicians might be a good one here. Almost universally great musicians (classical and jazz) use fantastically made and cherished instruments. That's not to say that they couldn't make striking music on "plain" instruments, just look at The Koln Concert by Keith Jarrett. But these are the greatest artists, and it is universally believed that the nicer the instrument the better the amateur will sound.


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## wareagle (Feb 3, 2011)

Back to the origional question:


			
				doransignal  said:
			
		

> I am new to machining and wondering If i should try to find an old one to restore or go with the low end china stuff? I like the SHOPMASTER PATRIOT. but 5000 dollars i think not. It use to be about 1700. I want a good one but a resonable Price.
> Any help for a Beginner?
> 
> thanks,
> Lee





			
				doransignal  said:
			
		

> maybe i should of started this thread with which tool will i get the most bang for my buck?



There have been some good pointers in deciding what you need for your intended purposes. To recap some of those comments and bring things back to point; what are you intending to do with the equipment? Models, etc. What is the largest size of work that you can foresee needing to machine? This will dictate the table size, height above the table, swing, etc. of your equipment. What are your space limitations? Kind of a no brainier; you won't be able to put a 60" long machine in a space that is only 48", and if your machine shop will be in the basement, then those machines will have to get down there somehow (think weight and size). What is your budget? Generally speaking, the larger the machine is, the more funding it will take to tool it up.

Ultimately, it is really your decision based on your space, budget, and wishes. Some suggestions have been made to seek some classes if you have any in you area to see what machining is all about. To add to that, see if you can find a model machinist in your area that would be willing to mentor you, at least to get you going in the right direction. Find some books and read up on techniques. A lifetime can truly be devoted to learning and mastering the machining arts.

Finding the right machine(s) will happen. To take on my journey...  I have an old American made milling machine that I rescued from the scrap man. It was sitting behind a business waiting to be picked up and hauled off. It had sat out in the weather for a while and had some rust on it, but nothing that some TLC couldn't handle. I rebuilt the head (with some help from a machinist friend), cleaned up the rust, replaced the electrics, and as a result I have a 10x50 mill for less than $1000 total investment. Yes, there is some wear on it, but it has taken great care of me. I know the machine and its quirks, so we get along fine.

I bought a brand new shiny Grizzly lathe that is a 13"x40" lathe several years later. There have been a couple of little things that I have changed on it that I didn't care for (tool post, and some of the hardware), but it has otherwise been a great machine. I don't recall exactly what I spent on it, but it was in the $3500 ball park. It also has its quirks, and I also get along fine with it.

To tool up for both machines, I watched for estate sales and sales with the industrial supplies. As I had some funds, I bought little bits here and there as I have gone along. A couple of my neighbors are retired machinists, and after seeing my hobby and what I was doing, they have donated some very nice tooling to the cause. Both said the same thing, "at least I know my tools will be used by someone who appreciates and values them".

My machines aren't top of the line equipment, nor are they up to ISO standards. But, they are way more capable than I am, and I have fun with them. That is really what all of this is about, anyway! Fun!!


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## milotrain (Feb 3, 2011)

wareagle  said:
			
		

> Both said the same thing, "at least I know my tools will be used by someone who appreciates and values them".


This is I think where all the "heat" in this thread came in. Machinists, like musicians relate themselves to their tools, they are so invested in them and have such a history of grooming and loving them that we tend to take comments against them as personal.

I love my mill, and it's a Chinese X3. It has a lot of problems, and I'm trying to groom it through them. That's ok, I have a lot of problems too! I'd love a nice bridgeport, but I don't need it, and while I know some have gotten those machines for less than I got mine, I didn't get lucky. That's ok too.


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## wareagle (Feb 3, 2011)

milotrain  said:
			
		

> This is I think where all the "heat" in this thread came in. Machinists, like musicians relate themselves to their tools, they are so invested in them and have such a history of grooming and loving them that we tend to take comments against them as personal.



Very true. But I am thinking that this isn't as much a knock against a machine as it is looking at it through a different prism. I can see the point of view in looking at the hobby from a production mentality. If you are under the gun to crank out parts meeting a tolerance, you have to have solid tight equipment (or it makes it much easier) to meet those demands. If I stood over a high end lathe every day, and then looked at a hobby where I would be using hobby equipment, then I would certainly shudder the thought of having to use the lesser equipment.



			
				milotrain  said:
			
		

> I love my mill, and it's a Chinese X3. It has a lot of problems, and I'm trying to groom it through them. That's ok, I have a lot of problems too! I'd love a nice bridgeport, but I don't need it, and while I know some have gotten those machines for less than I got mine, I didn't get lucky. That's ok too.



If I hadn't have found that old mill, then I likely wouldn't be in this hobby. It was one of those "right time; right place" deals that got me into this. Different topic for another day!  

Let's help doransignal with his question!


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## milotrain (Feb 3, 2011)

I have a machinist friend who works at an industrial scale. The shop he works in has been building things by hand up until recently when they had a very large Army project so they bought a Fedal. He needed to turn a few bushing and some heavy 2" diameter by 3" length slugs for pneumatic rams so he bought a JET shopfox off amazon for $480. Does all he needs.

So:
Jet ShopFox $480 from amazon.com, and free shipping
It's smaller than most at 6x10 and comes with no tooling but it is very cheap.

I love the look of the Littlemachineshop high torque 7x12. It's $640 but it has a compound slide and uses a brushless DC motor. If you are close to SoCal this deal becomes great because you don't have to ship it.

ENCO and Grizzly both have free shipping occasionally, and HF has 20% coupons which they sometimes let you use on machinery.

You've seen http://www.mini-lathe.com/ right?


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## TroyO (Feb 3, 2011)

TroyO steps to the left to avoid the arguments... 

I like my 8x12/14 Lathe I got from Harbor Freight. www.lathemaster.com also sells them. For some reason HF has it listed as 8x12, but it's really 8x14.

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
http://www.lathemaster.com/LATHEPRODUCTS.htm

Short version... the HF one is cheaper. The lathemaster one comes with a lot of the accessories, which is mighty nice as they can be hard to find. (And harder to wait for.. 6-8 weeks or more to get stuff from HF... IF it ever shows up.) Littlemachineshop now carries some stuff for it now... but at a pretty decent markup.

In comparison to the "Mini-lathe" series it weighs about 3-4x as much and has a better overall fit and finish. Not perfect mind you... but pretty good. It also has a fair amount more power and can take (much) bigger cuts.

On the downside it doesn't have variable speed so you have to change belts for different speeds. In addition, NONE of the speeds it does have is slow enough for comfortable threading, IMHO. (125 RPM minimum.) I added a variable speed motor to mine to get by that issue. It also does not have a transmission, so you have to change the gears by hand. (To cut different threads.) I think the mini-lathe you have to change gears as well?

So, it's a good, old fashioned, very manual but stoutly built machine. I got mine a few years ago when there was a Harbor Freight perfect price storm... LOL, lathe was on sale for $489 and I had a 20% cupon... was just under $400 out the door. The regular price was $599 at the time as well... I think it's $699 now?

Anyway... for not much more than a Mini Lathe, it's bigger and stronger and worth the extra. I'd buy it again given the choice. Even with the price increase.


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## Maryak (Feb 4, 2011)

Layne  said:
			
		

> One time I had to make 200 parts with a bore that was +.0002" -.0000". On the best lathes, you can set the dial to zero, take the part out, take the tool out, put them back, run both axis all the way down and back, turn the dial to zero, and cut within .001 of where it was.



Do you have a video or some pictures ??? I'd really like to see that.

Best Regards
Bob


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## pete (Feb 4, 2011)

Brian.
The owners of Busy Bee and Grizzly tools are related. I can't say for sure if your right or not about them being brothers.

Pete


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## Maryak (Feb 4, 2011)

Lee,

It has been pointed out to me that I took unwarranted offense at you initial remarks regarding Chinese machinery.

*PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES*. In future I will try and read more thoroughly before typing.

Best Regards
Bob


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## krv3000 (Feb 4, 2011)

HI just my 10P's worth we can only by tools and mashens that we can a ford a old saying is the tool is only as good as the person yousing it and as cutting SS with a hacksaw strate you is not yousing the saw properly have a look at my engine No 11 and see me cutting a Peace of 80 mm DI SS where i worked we had sum castings to be machend up as the castings came from China they decided to by a clack lathe to do the job the resin for the decision being as the lathe is cheep its beater to distroy that than the good ones at work and ges wot they still have the lathe 5 yeas on and its still being yous ed every day not bad considering its made for Hobey yous  PS forgive spelling


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## steamer (Feb 5, 2011)

1hand  said:
			
		

> That's why I'm only half as accurate as MB. :big:




 Rof}  Damn ...I think I hurt myself on that one 1hand.... :big: ;D


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## kennyb (Feb 5, 2011)

About 7 years ago I wanted to get into working with metal. I had limited space and funds. There wasn't an american machine or machines out there that I could afford, nor a combo machine of American manufacture of any decent size. I purchased a Chinese made Smithy 1220xl and a text book, Machine Shop Practice. This import machine was inexpensive, but did most everything I asked of it. It has it's drawbacks, the main one being setup between mill and lathe, and the mill itself. But a good learning experience. I've got more room now and will soon purchase a seperate milling machine. I've considered selling the Chinese combo machine, But I have a good deal of accessories for the lathe and it works good. I'll just swing the mill head out of the way or remove it and keep the lathe running. I don't have a tremendous amount of room and don't need a large mill. So what are my options, really. I'll probably purchase an import. I think the machine manufacturers in this country should make smaller machines at a reasonable price for people like me, but that is not going to happen. They make their money on large proven designed machines that large industry buy. I think if it wasn't for the imports there would be alot less members on this forum and a lot less people having fun, as hobbiests. By the way, in China, Taiwan, South Korea, etc they make alot of machinery and products, some are very good. I think South Korea and maybe China make cargo ships and super tankers, including the engines. What machines do they use? Are they importing American machines? or are they using thier own machines.
                                                                         Ken


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## Loose nut (Feb 6, 2011)

From the '30 onward the only lathe that most people could afford was the Good old Atlas (also sold under other names like Craftsman by Sears) lathe. Most farms where likely to have one and so did many homes. It was an useful machine in this environment but it had many faults like die cast parts, cheap gears and near the end, a lot of plastic parts but they got the job done. Quality wise these lathe where no better then the modern Chinese equipment and you don't hear a lot of badmouthing about them, only because they where made in the US and not China.

I don't no why someone could not make something similar today, in the US, even if they had to buy in castings for off shore, for a reasonable (more than a Chinese version but still affordable to most of us) price but no one seems to want to try. There definitely is a market for that type of machine. IH does this with their version of the RF 45 Mill.

Now the ever present Chinese 12 x 36" lathe has filled the gap and can be considered the "new Atlas" lathe. It will preform adequately in the home and hobby shop, it's not perfect but it will get the job done nicely. It's not so big that you can't do the smaller work but is big enough to do much of the larger machining that may come along in the future as your skills progress. The cost of these machines is within the budget of many/most home shop owners, even if they have to save up for it.


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