# Milling 101



## FIXIT (Jul 24, 2010)

I have a small mill/drill max 6mm cap
which seems to work well if i don't get to greedy with the cut.
I've played with this and have made a small engine with it,
as I'm about to start another i would like some advice,

When milling the edge of a piece which way should i travel with the cutter?
When cutting along the back side, from left to right with r/h rotation
i can see that the cutter would try and "climb up the face" or should i be going the other way
any advice on this and gen/milling is really wellcom.

i will post a pic when i figure how to
Steve


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## arnoldb (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi Steve - Welcome to HMEM

First off, that's a mighty small mill if its max 6mm capacity ! - are you sure you have the correct specification there? ;D

Secondly, what you are seeing and describing is correct, and for the most part the wrong way to go about milling on a small mill; You never want to be putting on any significant cut by climb milling.

To make things simple, rather use the point of view of "which way should I move the workpiece past the cutter" - as the cutter is stationary, and you actually move the workpiece - unless you have a mill that is not familiar to me.

You have a nifty description with "climb up the face" - that's called "climb cutting" and is the wrong way to go about rapid material removal. 
When trying to remove material rapidly, you should do it the opposite way, where the feed direction of your workpiece is against the way your cutter edges are turning when meeting the material. This is called "conventional milling".

Climb milling will try and pull the workpiece in the direction you are moving it, and if you have backlash in your feedscrews, this can cause a jump of the workpiece and very quickly cause a broken cutter or ruined workpiece. Conventional milling is more stable, as it tries to resist the workpiece moving past the cutter, thus keeping a more-or-less constant pressure against the feedscrew and nuts

If you mill a piece down using conventional milling, it helps a lot to take a finishing pass with climb milling with no additional infeed, or with a very light (0.02mm) infeed for the last pass - and that must be taken slowly. It will smooth out things, as climb milling is inclined to make a smoother finish than conventional milling.

Simply put, for cutting along the back end of your workpiece, remove metal by moving your workpiece from left to right past the cutter. Smooth off by running it back from right to left.

Same goes for movement in the Y direction; if you want to remove material off the right-hand edge of your workpiece start with it on the back side of the mill (cutter between you and the workpiece) and move the workpiece toward you. To finish, move it away from you again.

When milling a slot, you have both conventional and climb milling going on at the same time, so direction of travel is not important. If you are widening a slot, you will only be cutting on one side, in which case the above becomes a factor again.

Hope I didn't confuse you! - Looking forward to your pic ;D - there is a sticky note at the start of the "Photos and Videos" section on how to do it.

Regards, Arnold


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## Deanofid (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi Steve;
I'll just second what Arnold says. I think he has it.

Check the first post in this thread by John Bogstandard. There's a picture there that shows
very clearly what is what. On a small machine, you want "Up Milling", also called "Conventional milling".

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1002.0

Dean


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## Blogwitch (Jul 24, 2010)

Dean,

That was one of the posts that lost all the pictures when something went wrong with my photobucket.

I now have that picture back again, and it is here.


John


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## Deanofid (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi John;
That one still shows up on MM, for me, at least. We need it here, too! 
It's a good one for the newer fellows to have for reference.
Thanks.

Dean


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 24, 2010)

Fixit in general climb milling is to be avoided. I My USAF tech school for machining it was against the safety rules. Climb milling can have advantages in pro cnc machines but should be mostly avoided in small hobby mills. I say mostly because a light cut of a few thou in climb mode can improve the Finnish.
Tin


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## FIXIT (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi- thanks for the replies, and they say "a picture says a thousand words".

after carefull reading i fully understand Arnold's explanation and it now makes sense ,
what confused me as i "climb-mill" it seemed to me wrong as it must be straining the poor little machine but the finish was better on small cuts but the help from all of you plus the drawing answers it.

What have is a axminster/chinkie desktop mini mill/drill with x/y table with max chuck capacity of 6 mm and electronic speed control
I would really like some thing bigger but no room, but that's another story,i will post pic's of my "work shop" soon
once again thanks everyone and I'm glad i found this site (you wont get rid of me now )
Steve


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## T70MkIII (Jul 24, 2010)

I printed this up and stuck it onto my mill head for quick reference - feel free to use if it helps:


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## zeeprogrammer (Jul 25, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Steve.
I hope you get the pics figured out soon.


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## Troutsqueezer (Jul 25, 2010)

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> I printed this up and stuck it onto my mill head for quick reference - feel free to use if it helps:



It's early in the morning here so my brain's not fully engaged yet but it looks to me like your picture has it backwards. That looks like climb milling to me. What am I missing (beside brain cells)?

-Trout


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 25, 2010)

Think you are right trout looks backwards.
Tin


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## doc1955 (Jul 25, 2010)

Think of the block moving not the cutter.


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## T70MkIII (Jul 26, 2010)

doc1955  said:
			
		

> Think of the block moving not the cutter.


That's right - sorry for the confusion. The cutter is stationary, and the arrows show the direction the block should move in relation to which edge you are cutting. 

I'm new at this, so please let me know if I do have it backwards after all...


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## arnoldb (Jul 26, 2010)

Richard, you have it correct for the direction your workpiece must run past the cutter.

Regards, Arnold


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## Blogwitch (Jul 26, 2010)

I will tell you all now, experience doesn't stop you going the wrong way at times. I think we all do it.

I try to always work in the same direction, just to keep the mistakes to a minimum.

I always, if possible, work from the right hand side of the job. So for X axis working, I have the cut face away from me and the job moving from left to right and for Y axis work, again on the RHS of the job, I have the job coming towards me. For two reasons, I will not be climb milling and the chips are flying away from me.

Sometimes I can't have everything so simple, then I have to turn my brain on and make sure that I am going in the right direction.

When you are just starting out on the milling trail, it pays to invest in some brown corduroy trousers and a clothes peg, it is also recommended to tuck your pants into your socks.

Bogs


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## doubletop (Jul 26, 2010)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> When you are just starting out on the milling trail, it pays to invest in some brown corduroy trousers and a clothes peg, it is also recommended to tuck your pants into your socks.
> 
> Bogs



Now you tell me!! Where's that shovel?


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## T70MkIII (Jul 26, 2010)

Thanks very much, Arnold - I appreciate the confirmation. I thought I was right having thunk it through but better to be sure, and I certainly didn't want to be propogating incorrect information here.

Bogs, I was just squaring off 2 stacked pieces in Y, so I didn't want to flip them in the vice to do the other side. I'm with you - cutting on the RHS and moving the work towards me felt much more natural. I had to think about the direction of cut on the LHS even with my little chart, and you're bang on about being attacked by chips!

Try as I might, I can't find a cords shop in Oz. I'll try eBay. Socks with thongs, however? I think not


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 26, 2010)

Richard your diagram would indeed be correct your arrows are on the part. 
Tin


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## T70MkIII (Jul 26, 2010)

Thanks, Tin.


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## AlanHaisley (Jul 26, 2010)

Steve,

This:


			
				FIXIT  said:
			
		

> What have is a axminster/chinkie desktop mini mill/drill with x/y table with max chuck capacity of 6 mm and electronic speed control


concerns me. It sounds like you have the equivalent of a 1/4" drill chuck in your mill. If that's the case, you REALLY don't want to do milling with it. Drill chucks have both too much runout as a rule and also can't hold an endmill stabily (is that a word ???). Please post pictures as soon as possible so further advice can be provided if this is so.

Alan


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 26, 2010)

Fixit:
Alan brings up a good point. First of all what model axminster do you have ? Sounds like a x-2 if it is a mini or an x-1 micro . The specs on the x-2 are a 16 mm end mill or a 30 mm face mill. the x-1 does not give any specs for end mill size. 
Running an end mill in a drill chuck is dangerous. If that is what you are doing that in off itself will case issues with finish you should be holding end mills with some sort of collects. we are not trying to harass or question you but are genuinely concerned for your safety. 
Tin


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## Deanofid (Jul 26, 2010)

Richard, I saw your drawing as correct, but can see how it can be seen otherwise.
If you put arrows around the 'milling cutters' showing them spinning in a clockwise direction,
that should take care of the confusion.

Dean


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## FIXIT (Jul 27, 2010)

OH dear
Thanks Alan Yes it is as Tin describes.






I have only used it for very light edge milling on alum and small pockets with 2mm cutters  BUT I'm glad this has come up from you chaps before i try to get adventurist with it .
my problem here is i "play" if that's the right word in my bed room, which is fine for me and enjoy it but with all the bits&bobs i have no room for a proper machine.





i don't know if you can make any detail from the photo's but i will take more.
as you might be able to makeout my "operating"space is a old wood office desk.
and i have done more vacuuming than i had ever done before.
 Any How all advice & boll-- sorry telling off is very wellcom

Steve


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## T70MkIII (Jul 27, 2010)

Good point, Dean:


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 27, 2010)

wow I do not even see a x-y table that looks like a nice little drill press. not a milling machine .
How were you feeding the material ?? By Hand ??
Tin


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## FIXIT (Jul 27, 2010)

Sorry Tin
That pic was from Axminster website, the photo is the drill I'm using if this makes things clearer






I've taken it apart and removed any play and fitted ball thrust races to the table and surprisingly it all measures square to approx 5 thou and is quite solid.

so any advice will be very wellcom.

Steve


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## Lakc (Jul 27, 2010)

FIXIT  said:
			
		

> Sorry Tin
> That pic was from Axminster website, the photo is the drill I'm using if this makes things clearer
> I've taken it apart and removed any play and fitted ball thrust races to the table and surprisingly it all measures square to approx 5 thou and is quite solid.
> 
> ...



Steve

Its quite possible to do accurate work with what you have, even if it is less then ideal for the task. What it will take is a great deal of patience. As you gain experience, you will learn all the shortcomings of your machine. Drill chucks and drill presses in particular dont take side loads very well. Round columns flex and wont allow accurate Z axis repositioning. XY tables generally lack the mass required to avoid chatter. You will learn to compensate for all that by taking very light cuts only. I would avoid certain steels that tend to work harden but otherwise you can accomplish a lot more with that then just a drill and a dremel. You will have to be patient, tiny tiny cuts. You will still have a lot of fun, and learn valuable experience on how machines and cutters flex. Those lessons will serve you well when it comes time to choose the mill to replace that one.


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## cidrontmg (Jul 27, 2010)

Many people have already made the same suggestion - you really should use a collet to hold a milling cutter. I can also see the problem - a 5-collet set & holder from Axminster would cost £104.95 (!! way over half of a new machine...) And there´s another snag with that - the collets are non-standard, i.e. they look a lot like ER16, but they´re not... They won´t go into any ER holder. scratch.gif
I can´t give any fantastic advice. Tighten the cutter REALLY well in the drill chuck, take very light cuts, at the max. speed the drill/mill rotates. And keep your fingers (and maybe also toes) crossed when not manipulating the handwheels... ;D


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 27, 2010)

> my problem here is i "play" if that's the right word in my bed room, which is fine for me and enjoy it but with all the bits & bobs i have no room for a proper machine.



Not to be harsh but the space you have is no excuse for a proper machine. There are machines for every size shop and every purpose. 
If you only have a closet you may only be able to fit a machine like the x-1 mill 

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-super-x1-micro-mill-mkii-prod719673/
and the c-0 lathe 
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-c0-metal-turning-lathe-prod559017/
or maybe a C-1 lathe
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-c1-micro-lathe-mk2-prod33289/
or of course a Sherline or Taig would also be great. And there are also watchmakers lathes and mills. 
Such small machines can be set up in a box with all the accessories available. I have seen fine examples of portable machine shops if you will ,actually only one machine per box. 
I have a friend that comes to the ME shows that makes fantastic little engines on his Sherline . His engines are generally 1/2 the size of mine but they run great. And are beautiful examples of craftsmanship. 


I started with the earlier generation American versions of these. Same Chinese factory though. 

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-c2a-300mm-mini-lathe-prod564883/
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-x2-mini-mill-prod568039/

You do not need a Bridgeport mill or a Monarch lathe to have proper machines. And finesse and creativity can get you beyond the limits of small machines. 
Have fun with your little drill press but remember it is little and is a drill press. We want you to enjoy this hobby . frustration and injuries are not fun, be safe.
Tin


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## FIXIT (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi thanks again for your valued comments which are noted.

I now remember why i purchased this drill apart from it's size on the seig website it is described as a mill with 6mm milling capacity, although they don't show it anywhere it might mean with the collet system as mentioned.

for interest i have found a pic of there mini drill which look the same basic machine without the fine feed and spindle locking.











Any How i will follow all of your advice it's a great help and i think i will work toward a Taig mill (to match mt lathe) 

Steve


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 28, 2010)

> Any How i will follow all of your advice it's a great help and i think i will work toward a Taig mill (to match mt lathe)


Steve sounds like a wise choice . if you have the space you may want to keep the drill press and x-y table , for drilling you can also us it for a tapping guide. maybe even a door stop. well will not go to far on that one. Looks like a nice little drill press. 
As far as the advice you are welcome. 
Tin


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