# Advice re belt sander/linisher



## jmshep (Mar 4, 2011)

I am looking for a reasonably priced bench mounted belt sander. The belt/disc sanders that can be used with the belt section horizontal or vertical look ok for what I want and are the right sort of price but nearly all of the descriptions state that they are suitable for woodworking, plastics or non ferrous  metals. 

Are there any probems using them on steel or do I need to look at a 'proper' linisher designed for use on steel?

(an example of the sort of thing I am looking at is here: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awebds46-mkii-belt-and-disc-sander-prod725061/)

Any help and experiences appreciated

John S


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 4, 2011)

This is what I have and use 
a quality belt helps a lot
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combination-Sander-6-x-48-Belt-9-Disc-Z-Series/G1014Z

ImHO switch location is bogus should be moved to the front of the machine but has served me well for years.
Tin


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## b.lindsey (Mar 4, 2011)

John, it should work fine for both assuming a quality belt of appropriate grit for the job at hand. Just be aware that you can sometimes get sparks from ferrous metals just as on a pedestal grinder so take the normal precautions for combustibles nearby.

Bill


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## Omnimill (Mar 4, 2011)

I've got a Record BDS 250:

http://www.recordpower.co.uk/index.php?section=product&seq=272&cat=35&sef=10%22%22X6%22%22%20BELT%20%26%20DISC%20SANDER

It's the larger 6" wide belt and 10" disc version. I've fitted a decent table for using the belt and also an auxiliary platen for 50mm wide belts. I do nearly all my tool sharpening on it, including wood turning lathe tools. One of the best bits of kit I've bought but you MUST clean out all wood dust before using steel on it or it could catch fire when the sparks hit the wood dust!

Vic.


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## dgjessing (Mar 4, 2011)

I've got one of the 4 x 36 ones from Harbor Freight and I'm quite pleased with it. I use it for both woodworking and (to a lesser extent) on metal - does a fine job... I just keep the belts used for metal separated from those used for wood, to keep from contaminating wood with oil and/or metal dust.


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## Omnimill (Mar 4, 2011)

This is what has made all the difference to using mine:







The steel table bolted on the side, as bought it just has a thin plate which is next to useless.

Vic.


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## jmshep (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks for the replies - just got to decide which make model now.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 5, 2011)

like others have said the material and quality of the belt makes a big difference of capability and performance. 
the proverbial rubber road comparison if you will.
Tin


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## Omnimill (Mar 5, 2011)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> like others have said the material and quality of the belt makes a big difference of capability and performance.
> the proverbial rubber road comparison if you will.
> Tin



Too true. Axminster in the UK supply good belts that are butt joined, cheaper scarfed joints "jump" each time they come round and can make things difficult.

As for which one, get the largest belt/disc size you can afford/have space for and try and get one with a Cast Iron or Steel table if you can as they are more solid and less noisy to use than those with alloy tables.

Vic.


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## awJCKDup (Mar 5, 2011)

I have a 4" belt/disc sander, but have been pondering buying or building a 1" belt sander with a variable speed motor for use with the many small parts we make for our small projects. 
What do you think?
How do you finish out/put the "bling" on your small parts?
Right now I spend a lot of time hand filing/sanding these parts to get a satisfactory finish----hard on finger tips.
John


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## d.bick (Mar 5, 2011)

I was told the mixing of aluminium dust and iron dust can cause a explosive mix. Has any one had or know of even a little bang from sanding both these metals on a sander?
    Dave Bick


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 5, 2011)

> I was told the mixing of aluminium dust and iron dust can cause a explosive mix. Has any one had or know of even a little bang from sanding both these metals on a sander?
> Dave Bick


Iron oxode power mixed with aluminum powder in the correct proportions is thermite
Fe2O3 + 2Al &#8594; 2Fe + Al2O3 + Heat
It is not an explosive but when ignited will melt though things like engine blocks.
it basically turns to molten iron and slag. 

I used to work in a shop that routinely used the same sander for various metals steel aluminum and titanium. the metal powder would get an inch deep before anyone would clean it out, never a fire. 
Will not say it cannot happen but with reasonable housekeeping do not see it it as a real threat. I do not recommend letting the powder build up on the sander. 
Tin


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## LongRat (Mar 6, 2011)

Usually to start a thermite reaction you need an extremely hot trigger, that's why burning a piece of magnesium ribbon is most often used for this. A couple of small sparks from a sander are very unlikely to be carrying enough energy to start this reaction. On top of that, the iron will not be very oxidised and the ratio of iron oxide to aluminium will almost certainly not be very close to ideal and the powders won't be at all mixed. I wouldn't consider the risk to be at all significant.
Anyone got any sources of fine grit good quality 4" wide belts for these machines? I have a Warco one but the belt is poorly joined and the grit very coarse.


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## Omnimill (Mar 6, 2011)

I've found Axminster belts good in the past but they aren't the cheapest:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/hermes-sanding-belts-100-x-915mm-prod19640/

Vic.


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## LongRat (Mar 6, 2011)

Cheers Vic I just banged in an order, can't find anyone else selling 180 grit either.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 6, 2011)

> can't find anyone else selling 180 grit either.


I have found it is best to err on the course side it wears down to what you want. 
IIRC I use 60 or 120 for course /fine 
Tin


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## Omnimill (Mar 6, 2011)

I get given used 60 grit belts from time to time and they're still very sharp. I tend to buy 100 grit for use as a "fine" belt!

Vic.


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## LongRat (Mar 6, 2011)

Good to know.
Figured the coarse disc on the machine will stay and I will change the belt over to fine. Maybe too fine


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 6, 2011)

I have a coarse belt on mine and a fine disk but gueass it is a matter of preference.
Tin


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## LongRat (Mar 7, 2011)

My disc runs true, my belt has a huge fat joint that basically renders it unuseable on anything but wood. It acts more like a hammer than a sander. I need to lose that belt whatever happens, that is why I am hoping the belts from Axminster are better. Once it arrives I will test it and post the result.


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## Ken I (Mar 8, 2011)

Powdered metals can burn violently - but in the real world I have only seen this on a production linishing operation on chrome - the chrome burned incandescent and nothing would put it out - water disassociated into Hydrogen and Oxygen which then exploded. CO2 disassociated and forced the fire, powder made no impression whatsoever.
We eventually simply kept the filter cabinet cool on the outside with water and let it burn itself out - this happened about twice a year and we never came up with a solution.

Nowadays I see that Magnesium foundries use cement powder dispensed from a hopper to hose nozzles to supress Magnesium fires - maybe that would work.

FYI

Ken


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## Ken I (Mar 8, 2011)

Here's a tip for changing linishing disks.

Simply peeling off a linishing disk leaves a mess of torn backing and glue which takes a lot of time to clean up.

I found that by heating it with a propane torch the bond melts and (with gloves) you can peel it off very easilly.

The glue remains on the metal backing disk and you can repeat this about 3 times before you have to scrape off the remaining adhesive.

Again I use the blowtorch and a scraper (Removing the disk from the spindle if required).

Final clean up with thinners when its all cooled down somewhat.

A somewhat less safe way of doing it is to take the linisher outside and run it - apply the propane torch - the disk flies off as soon as the glue melts.

You obviously stand out of the line of throw but make sure everything else is out of the line of fire (dog, wife - in that order) - hence do it outside.

The other reason being the hot glue on the back of the disk can catch fire and it takes off like a demented catherine wheel.

As I said a less than safe method unless you take the necessary precautions but it does leave the backing disk much cleaner than peeling and ready to accept a new disk.

First time I did it as a kind of spur of the moment idea when I was in a hurry to change the disk - the flaming disk frisbee tearing around my workshop was an unexpected and unwelcome surprise - so outdoors only (and not if you live in a tinderbox).

I can change an adhesive disk in a couple of minutes this way (It's not quite as nuts as it sounds) - but be careful - you have been warned.

If anyone has any other ideas - please do tell.

Ken


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## Omnimill (Mar 8, 2011)

I was hoping for a Velcro system, but not seen 10 inch ones to fit my sander   ;D

Vic.


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## LongRat (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok, belt arrived. Much better than the old belt which had an overlapped joint. This one is butt-joined and taped. It sands a lot smoother and I would say the 180 grit is just about right for my application. Not bad.


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