# Detroit Maker's Faire July 26 & 27



## vederstein (Jul 17, 2014)

It's July 26 & 27 at the Henry Ford Museum.

I believe entry also get you into the museum.

It's a great museum if you've never been there.

This will be my first visit to a Maker's Faire.  ...Looking forward to it.

...Ved.


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## Wizard69 (Jul 21, 2014)

A fantastic museum, I would imagine most engine builders would need two days or more to take it all in.


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## ChooChooMike (Jul 25, 2014)

Wizard69 said:


> A fantastic museum, I would imagine most engine builders would need two days or more to take it all in.


At LEAST 2-days. 

I had about 6 hours to just barely scratch the surface of their collections. I spent my time mostly on the old stationary steam engines and the locomotives and machine ship in Greenfield Village.

Very impressive museum, especially the full-sized engines that used to power Ford's factory. Steam on one side and IC on the other !

Well worth a visit !

Mike


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 26, 2014)

th_wwp


I have yet to venture to a makers faire . I am spoiled by the Cabin fever show and the NEMES show. And Kinzer/Rough and tumble. 
Tin


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## RonGinger (Jul 26, 2014)

I have been to a couple mini maker faires. They are more about craft projects, like fabric work and wood work. I may be going as an exhibitor to the Dover NH mini if I can get a couple more guys from NEMES to go.

I considered going to the NYC one, but with the hotel and train Id be spending over $500. Ill save it for Cabin Fever.


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## Wizard69 (Jul 26, 2014)

RonGinger said:


> I have been to a couple mini maker faires. They are more about craft projects, like fabric work and wood work. I may be going as an exhibitor to the Dover NH mini if I can get a couple more guys from NEMES to go.
> 
> I considered going to the NYC one, but with the hotel and train Id be spending over $500. Ill save it for Cabin Fever.




Hi Ron;

I'm literally posting from the hotel room, but just spent a day at the Detroit Makers Faire.  This is only my second Faire , the first being about 5 years ago at the first Detroit Makers Faire, so I don't have the experience to cover all of the variants.  I find this show extremely interesting because it is tied to The Henry Ford.   I loose 3-4 hours before I even realize it when I walk into that museum.  

In any event your characterization is probably about 60% correct in the case of this event.   They had people giving metal casting demonstrations for example which certainly fits into this hobby.   There was a contingent of FIRST robotics team and similar organizations for kids.   More than a few displays from Maker Spaces such as TechShop (wish I had one near by) many of these groups support various forms of metal working.  The big deal though was in 3D printing which is one of the reasons I attended, to put it bluntly there where dozens of different machines to be seen which is inspiring for the DIY person.  

In any event if we focus on 3D printing, there where at least 8 variation of delta type printers on hand one of which was huge.   There where so many variants of conventional 3D printers that I lost track.   However I got plenty of inspiration and frankly seeing all these different printers in person really clears up in your mind how they work and are assembled.  I know one guy is about to launch a kick starter project for his delta variant, there is much innovation going on with these machines.  Now the question is how much does this apply to or interest an engine builder?   Id have to say it could be very interesting if you cast your own parts as it could be seen as a modern approach to "lost wax".  

In any event someone should not go to a Makers Faire if they are expecting the focus of something like Cabin Fever or NAMES.     However if you go understanding that these events cover a large array of interests they aren't that bad at all.  And of course in this case you have the Henry Ford.


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## Wizard69 (Jul 26, 2014)

As I mentioned in the reply to Ron, really a reply in general, these are not focused like Cabin Fever at all.   They did have a couple of old gas engines on display (separate from the Ford's), metal casting demos and some other interesting stuff.  




Tin Falcon said:


> th_wwp
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This year's Makers Faire was actually larger than I expected, there was a lot on display inside the Ford museum.  Everything from Star Wars robot building clubs to Freescale Semiconductor with a few new ARM M4 based boards.  Make no mistake there was a large amount of stuff focused on kids which frankly you don't see to any extent at the likes of Cabin Fever.  

One of the things I was very interested in was 3D printing but unfortunately so was everybody else.  It was crowded around just about any of the 3D printers.  Even though my hearing leaves a lot to be desired I did pick up a little bit more knowledge about all the different variants.   

I look at it this way, if somebody is interested in steam engines, the trip is worth the time just to go to The Henry Ford!    The same applies to trains, early electrical generation and the like.  They even have Maudslay's screw cutting lathe there.


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## Wizard69 (Jul 26, 2014)

ChooChooMike said:


> At LEAST 2-days.


Yeah you can get sucked in.   I still wonder how some of that stuff was even built in the early days.    It must have been back breaking work.  I still haven't gone to the Greenfield Village or the other offerings.  

Honestly, The Henry Ford is one of the few museums I pay a membership fee to, plus a little extra when I can.   It really does fall into the "Worth It" category.  


> I had about 6 hours to just barely scratch the surface of their collections. I spent my time mostly on the old stationary steam engines and the locomotives and machine ship in Greenfield Village.


I'm impressed!   Seriously I haven't made it to the Greenfield Village yet


> Very impressive museum, especially the full-sized engines that used to power Ford's factory. Steam on one side and IC on the other !


One thing I don't remember before but today they had a few engines in motion.   The giant Corliss engine was running on compressed air and it was slow enough to see everything working.   They also had the huge DC generator that was pulled out of one of Thomas Edison's generation stations in NYC in motion.   In that case I looks like they have a hidden gear motor rotating everything.   Again very impressive.   Since this was literally one of the first generators to supply power to customers commercially it starkly indicates just how far we have come.  

By the way some have said that the museum was built specifically to handle that huge engine.   It was a personal goal of Henry Ford to preserve that engine!   


> Well worth a visit !
> 
> 
> 
> Mike




For anybody interested in early industrial or transportation technology I don't know of a better place to go.   I do wonder how they managed to get some of those steam engines they have on display out of England.   Somebody must have been asleep at the wheel in England.    In my mind they are historical treasures.


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 26, 2014)

Wizard thanks for the report. 
From what I know of Henry Ford  there was very much a balance between progress and maintaining history. How many industrial giants build living history museums and set up a trust to keep it running . A few I am a member of the hagley In Wilmington DE a restoration preservation of the DuPont powder works and they to have a steam engine and a line shaft machine shop. 
as far as kid stuff at CF it is there but I agree could use more. One year a guy had a punch press that punched smiles an eyes in pennys I try to have kid stuff the lego engine gets lots of attention as does the lego diorama machine shop. One year I assembled an engine at the show and a ten year old was very interested in what i was doing. 



> One of the things I was very interested in was 3D printing but unfortunately so was everybody else. It was crowded around just about any of the 3D printers. Even though my hearing leaves a lot to be desired I did pick up a little bit more knowledge about all the different variants.




IMHO 3-d printing is showing up more at the Model engineering shows. 

I guess there was somewhere between a half a dozen and a dozen at cabin fever this year. And at the NEMES show there was a couple. But a small show. 
I just picked up a used soliddoodle 4 see my thread in the cnc area. I have been doing a lot of research thaere are a lot of variations on the design. lots of options if you have a grand to spend and can be done for 5oo if you sacrifice some features. like a heated bed and local control. 
Any questions on 3-d lask on the shopping for a 3 d printer thread. 

Tin


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## vederstein (Jul 27, 2014)

I got back last night.

Now, a comment on the 3D printers.  What can they make that actually _useful_ to justify spending 1500 to build your own or $3000 to $5000 for a commercial unit?

Most everything make by 3D printers shown were figurines, vases, and geometric toys.  (Ugh).  Give me something I can use.

For this hobby, the only use I see is to modify the machine to print wax to do lost wax casting.

Now for a few pictures:

1. A full sized, home built stirling engine
2. A radial steam engine.
3. The valve gear of the Corliss Engine at the Henry Ford.
4. Me on a tiny bicycle.


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 27, 2014)

> Now, a comment on the 3D printers. What can they make that actually useful to justify spending 1500 to build your own or $3000 to $5000 for a commercial unit?
> 
> Most everything make by 3D printers shown were figurines, vases, and geometric toys. (Ugh). Give me something I can use.
> 
> For this hobby, the only use I see is to modify the machine to print wax to do lost wax casting.


1) 3 d printing not necessarily for everyone. No fabrication technology suitable for every task. 
2) some would argue we are crazy to spend 1K plus on a lathe another 1K on a mill  and another 1-2 K for tooling to build engines. One can buy a PM research machined kit for $150 or so and after all what do they do. 
A 3d printer is another shop tool to make things with. 


3) so what can one make. This is an open question. but will say anything you can imagine and design withing the law of physics that apply to 3-d printing. 

a) art museums are uploading files for things to print. I may never see the original venus de milo, maltese falcon, statue of Athena or the bone of a dinosaur. And if I was able to see them touch would never be allowed. To me being able to print a replica of classic art and hold it in hand is a great educational experience. 
And for the blind to be able to hold and  touch a replica of a statue in his or her own home priceless.  

b) music people are printing electric violins , kazoos and other things so folks can make there own music.

c) repairs how many times have we  needed a simple part for an object in out home and it is not commercially available of only available as part of an expensive kit. 

d) Pattern making use as a pattern for sand casting or investment casting burnout the pla as you would wax. 

e) Engines made a abs or PLA air engine. Something to get the kids interested in this hobby. 
f) the future  strides are being made in material. Nylon is now an option. Pla is being mixed with wood and bronze. So one can print in bronze (80%)  or wood.  Carbon fiber and elastomer filaments are hitting the market. So one cant print  o-rings gasket and seals. 

g) one of the appeals to the maker movement is self replication. 
Many of the parts on 3-d printers are printed with a 3-d printer. Some are lazer cut wood some are metal.  But the point is if you have a 3-d pinter  a a set of files to make the parts and a shopping list for rods bearings motors you can build your own 


Like any other tool if you do not or can not see the value and potential you probably should not buy it. 
In 20 years we may see affordable metal printers 

As far as price? From my recent research there are many choices in 3-d printing in the $500 - $1000 price range this includes kits and assembled in USA pre build pre tested commercial models. I am also seeing shipped from the USA chinese replicas. so shop around and read descriptions carefully. 


In 20 years we may see affordable metal printers 
Tin


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## Wizard69 (Jul 27, 2014)

vederstein said:


> I got back last night.
> 
> Now, a comment on the 3D printers.  What can they make that actually _useful_ to justify spending 1500 to build your own or $3000 to $5000 for a commercial unit?


You can actually get something new for under a grand these days and depending on how cheap you are and the limitations you can accept you can get much cheaper. If you go the DIY route the potential is to get stuff built much cheaper.   These are fairly simple machines.   

You do have a good question as to usefulness.   Like most things imagination is important.    For people in this hobby one big possibility is lost plastic patterns for casting molds.  There is a guy in one of the forums I visit that has been very successful with this.  They use a biodegradable plastics with a low melting point.  Ive have also seen guys make couplings, pulleys and gears with these machines to make temporary repairs or to prototype something.  


> Most everything make by 3D printers shown were figurines, vases, and geometric toys.  (Ugh).  Give me something I can use.


Certainly some of the things on display where a bit boring but the point here is that you can literally make anythign your can imagine.    Need to cast a brass sand dome, no problem.    How about a pattern for a complex intake manifold.  Apparently Chrysler used 3D printing in a lost plastic process to cast manifolds for their V10.  

It really comes down to imagining new ways to do things.  Admittedly the plastic nature of these machines leaves some things to be desired but printing metal is not that far away either.   Printing metal can be done now if money is no problem. 


> For this hobby, the only use I see is to modify the machine to print wax to do lost wax casting.


This is already being done.   


> Now for a few pictures:
> 
> 1. A full sized, home built stirling engine


That was a pretty cool engine.   The guy had just started it up when I go there.   Unfortunately something happened to one of the linkages causing the engine to jam.   Felt bad for the guy as we all know how it feels to have something go wrong with everybody looking. 


> 2. A radial steam engine.


Missed that table completely!   


> 3. The valve gear of the Corliss Engine at the Henry Ford.
> 4. Me on a tiny bicycle.




By the way thanks for the pics!


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## Wizard69 (Jul 27, 2014)

Tin Falcon said:


> 1) 3 d printing not necessarily for everyone. No fabrication technology suitable for every task.


This is so true.  


> 2) some would argue we are crazy to spend 1K plus on a lathe another 1K on a mill  and another 1-2 K for tooling to build engines. One can buy a PM research machined kit for $150 or so and after all what do they do.
> 
> A 3d printer is another shop tool to make things with.


Also true!    I've had people question why I spend so much on tools.   """Why do you need that""".   I get the same crap from the idiots from NYC when it comes to guns.   My big problem is finding the cash to actually buy the stuff people think I don't need. Since a good portion of my tools are for wood working, at one time a popular activity, I have to wonder where the world went wrong. 


> 3) so what can one make. This is an open question. but will say anything you can imagine and design withing the law of physics that apply to 3-d printing.


Exactly.  It is like taking a chisel to a block of wood, your imagination dictates what will result.   However there is an ugly side to anything CNC related and that is the willingness to do the design and coding up front.   Sometimes I prefer to let my imagination govern where I go while building.   That can lead to scrap though.   


> a) art museums are uploading files for things to print. I may never see the original venus de milo, maltese falcon, statue of Athena or the bone of a dinosaur. And if I was able to see them touch would never be allowed. To me being able to print a replica of classic art and hold it in hand is a great educational experience.
> 
> And for the blind to be able to hold and  touch a replica of a statue in his or her own home priceless.
> 
> ...




It could be shorter than that some researchers out of MIT have a new solid state diode laser solution that may significantly drop the price of a metal printer.  Apparently they already have design ins with respect to laser machining.


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## Cogsy (Jul 27, 2014)

vederstein said:


> 2. A radial steam engine.


 
Plus 2 of Steve Huck's engines (and I assume his hands) in the background!


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## Nerdz (Jul 28, 2014)

I always love the Maker Faire Since Ive heard about it way back in 2010. This year it will be my 4th Year going! Looks like I have started a tradition . The past year I went, I got a hotel, because Im driving from CT to NYC. I come down Friday and Leave Sunday. It beats coming down early on a saturday and having to leave at 6 AMish (2 hr drive). It does get better every year, and at some point I would like to be a vendor there just to show off my stuff. 

I still remember my first year going, Arc Attack came. 3 Giant Tesla Coils. I still hope for them to come back, but it seems they only reside on the west coast. Prevoius posts are correct, some of the stuff is Artsy and it reminds me of Burning Man (Although Ive never gone to that). Did you know thats why the Arduino was created? So artists, et al, can have a means to program microcontrollers? Some of the stuff Ive seen has some technological Value, case in point, a home brew spectrometer. You just have to filter some of the stuff out, check the out skirts of the Faire (They opened up part of the park for more stuff).


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## RonGinger (Jul 28, 2014)

> The past year I went, I got a hotel, because Im driving from CT to NYC. I come down Friday and Leave Sunday.



Since I would come from Maine this is what I would have to do. I have no idea of the NYC geography, so I dont know where to look for hotels. I would not mind a short subway ride from the hotel to the show each day. Can anyone offer some suggestions for hotels, or areas to look. The Maker faire site has a hotel link, but at $200 per night that, plus my train fare to NYC pushes the show into unreasonable price.


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## Nerdz (Jul 28, 2014)

RonGinger said:


> Since I would come from Maine this is what I would have to do. I have no idea of the NYC geography, so I dont know where to look for hotels. I would not mind a short subway ride from the hotel to the show each day. Can anyone offer some suggestions for hotels, or areas to look. The Maker faire site has a hotel link, but at $200 per night that, plus my train fare to NYC pushes the show into unreasonable price.



I will agree hotels are a bit...Expensive, But if you book early and close by You can use a Discount Code via the Make website. Its held in the New York Science Center in Queens, near where the Worlds Fair used to be held. Ive stayed in Jamica, NY last year and it was about 15 minute car ride. Ive also stayed Near College Point, again not Far. Its also easy to get lost, as Ive missed the Sci center the first time. We didnt park in Citi Field as suggested, but Parked in the Nearby Park, which is about a half mile walk. 

http://makerfaire.com/new-york-2014/where-to-stay/

Gives a list of places with a discount. I stayed one Night at Hotel De Point, it was very nice and modern,but there are a lack of Amenities (ie a place to eat breakfast). No Fridge in the room either.  Also early bird tickets go UP after the 31st of July. If all the rooms are booked in the mentioned hotels, just use any of those hotel booking websites (ie travelocity, etc) to find a place close nearby 

One word of caution though: NY Drivers are NOT Polite. They will cut in front of you even when you leave a "safe" distance between you and the next car. Nor will they let you in on a off ramp, and traffic, Forget about it! But on the upside We (me and my girlfriend) have been complimented by a waitress in New York Saying that we "were easy going".


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## stevehuckss396 (Jul 28, 2014)

Cogsy said:


> Plus 2 of Steve Huck's engines (and I assume his hands) in the background!



That was me. Great 2 days other than the sun burn. I was real happy with the way both engines run. For both engines to run extremely well at the same time is a little rare but a heck of a lot of fun.


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## vederstein (Jul 29, 2014)

Two things I noticed about the model engine display:

There was a small but constant crowd around the engines.  Those looking at the engines were by a vast majority, male.

...Ved.


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## Wizard69 (Aug 5, 2014)

vederstein said:


> Two things I noticed about the model engine display:
> 
> There was a small but constant crowd around the engines.


The crowds where pretty constant in general though it didn't seem as crowded as the first year when I last attended.  However they did have things spread out more and much more inside!  


> Those looking at the engines were by a vast majority, male.
> 
> ...Ved.



That is strange.   The maker movement is pretty inclusive, it makes me wonder if there are any female builders out there or even on this forum.  


On a side note much has been said about hotel costs.   This time around I stayed at the Adoba which frankly wasn't worth the $107 dollars a night that they charged!    It is nice that it is close by but that is about it.   What where the disappointments?
1. No fridge in the room!
2. Broken Coke machines that charged way too much for a Coke.  
3. Useless WiFi ( not that I needed it as I hit the sac early )
4. It is a 700+ room hotel yet the pool was exceptionally tiny.  
I could go on but the point is it felt expensive for what you where getting.


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## stevehuckss396 (Aug 7, 2014)

Found this on the innerweb today. It aired on our local cable access channel in West Bloomfield. About 20 miles from me.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_V0jkqcxLs[/ame]


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