# Lathe recommendations in Canada?



## lazylathe (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi All,

I am looking for a metal lathe and am a bit lost at the moment.
The problem is i am quite fond of old machines and do not have any problems restoring them and working with them. The only issue is sometimes finding spares.
I look at Busy Bee Tools and they have a 10x18 lathe on sale, but then i wonder about the quality of the Craftex brand.

Alos would like to stay around the $1000 area if possible.

I would like to make some small engines but will use it mostly to make parts for pens that i make. So it need to be able to cut threads with it.

If anyone has any info on good places on the internet to look at machines, please let me know.
I have also been searching through the adds on Kijiji for good condition, used machines.
There is a nice Myford ML7, but the guy wants $2000 for it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Andrew


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## Cbowler (Jan 7, 2011)

King Canada makes a nice 10 X 20 which is basically the same as the Grizzly G0602. Check out he latter's user group for details.

Machine Tool Warehouse in Guelph is also carrying lathes of about the same size now.

Finally Sherline and Taig are both readily available.

Good Luck


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## lazylathe (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks for the reply and the info!

I already have a long bed Sherline, but am looking for something with a bit more power and auto feed.

Any ideas on a Myford ML7?
I have the chance to get a single owner lathe with all original documents and in excellent condition for $1500.
Do any of the pros think this would be a good investment??

Andrew


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## firebird (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi Andrew

I have a Myford ML7 but also have some experience with the Chinese stuff. I would go for the Myford every time. They are not the cheapest but you really do get what you pay for.

Cheers

Rich


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## Cbowler (Jan 7, 2011)

I have a Sherline long bed as well as the 10 X 22 I mentioned. I wouldn't go for the Busy Bee as it only has a 3/4 HP motor and I don't think you'll notice a huge improvement. The 10 X 20 at 1 HP has lots of power.On the other hand, Let me know if you don't but the Myford


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## lazylathe (Jan 7, 2011)

I would really love to own the Myford ML7, but there is a barrier!!! 

The wife says i can only spend the money i have for stuff that i have sold! :rant:
So i only have $1000 to spend...
So to combat the empty area in my workshop that would fit the Myford in perfectly, i have printed off a picture of it and that will have to do for now! :-\

I will keep looking and hopefully i will find something in the near future!
Or the guy may reduce his price more to be in my range!!
Wishful thinking.... *bang*

Thanks for all the info guys!!
If anyone has any more links to places that sell hobby sized lathes in Canada, that would be great!

Andrew


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 7, 2011)

I looked at quite a few used lathes before I realized that most of the stuff out there needs professional help. I didn't even know how to run one, much less go through a used one to get it up to specs. And locating expensive parts like a replacement for a worn or chipped gear could become a major set back for example.

I bought a 9x20 that's identical to the one that Busy Bee sells. And I would not hesitate to buy another one if my shop flooded or some one stole it. I consider it an ideal size for building small model engines, and with a 3/4 hp motor thats all I need. Parts are easy to come by since there are plenty of suppliers that sell this lathe and the parts. I recently found out that there's a Yahoo group strictly for owners of this model lathe. A few years ago I became so attached to my 9x20 that I bought many spare parts including two of every change gear. I'm even thinking of picking one up and leaving it crated. Or I might even consider a used one.

I would also love to have the most expensive lathe ever built, but I all honesty I really don't need it.

-MB


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## Philjoe5 (Jan 7, 2011)

Six months ago I was right where MB is. I had a 9x20 and used it for a number of years and got reasonably good at making parts (for me) with it. I also wanted an old lathe in good shape but did not have the experience to evaluate one.


A friend of mine who is quite experienced in machining put me onto a used Logan 6 months ago so I knew it was in good shape. Then I discovered what I had been missing. Back gear, clutch feed and being able to nest the tailstock into the apron. These are nice, but not essential features. 

I sold the 9x20 but I still have a Grizzly G0602 lathe (10x22). Both the Grizzly and Logan are enjoyable to use and I wouldn't want to part with either (that's a pun :big. I consider myself extremely lucky in acquiring the Logan. But spare parts are fairly expensive. So I keep the Grizzly since it is a good machine, parts are available at relatively low cost and it has features my Logan does not. I don't like cutting threads with it because at its slowest speed (150 rpm) I have trouble getting good results. But that's me, others do quite well with it.


Good luck 

Phil


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## PaulG (Jan 7, 2011)

The Myford, might be a little slow for small work turning (pens).

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford/

Paul


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## mygrizzly1022 (Jan 7, 2011)

HiAndrew

This link is to a Canadian supplier in Quebec.
They sell a version of the 10X22 with variable speed drive which I would put high on my wish list.
They sell it very well tooled.
 I purchased my mill from them and was happy with the service and the machine.
My mill came very well equipped with a good starter set of tooling.


Regards ...Bert


http://www.garantmachinerie.com/en/


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## pete (Jan 7, 2011)

I'll also say Garant Machinery is a good company. Ask for Y'ves, He's a great guy to deal with. I special ordered a lathe thru them and the whole process was really easy. The shipping from Quebec to B.C. was a pain but that had nothing to do with Garant.

Pete


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## lazylathe (Jan 8, 2011)

Thanks for all the help. it is really appreciated!

I am waiting for prices from Garant Machinery before i make a decision.

I am also looking at an excellent condition 9" Standard Modern UtiLathe.
It looks great but i also have to take into consideration how heavy the beast is!

So many decisions to make.... ;D


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 8, 2011)

I used a standard modern in USAF Tech school would love one in the home shop
I do like the vintage south bend though.
The SM is probably a little lighter. 
Tin


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## mygrizzly1022 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hi .. Andrew

 In your original post you indicated most of your work was focused on the smaller end of the scale.
Have you considered the 7x 12 mini lathes at all? They can be surprisingly capable in good hands. 
Have a look around this fellow Canucks site, and check out his CRAFTEX to see what I mean about capable hands.
http://www.modelengines.info/
Micro mart is offering a 16 inch version now which would be a nice asset.
The big advantage of these little guys is, all their faults are well documented, and the associated remedies are readily available all over the net.
LMS has tons of tooling goodies and accessories just for these little beasts. Not to mention spare parts, as in every part, up to and including the lathe bed.
The same holds true, but to a lesser degree regarding the 9x19/20 lathes. 
The bulk of these 9x lathes are clones of an EMCO Compact 8 which originated in Austria in the early 70s.

Beware the siren call of Old American Iron it can be an expensive road to go down. Been there, dont necessarily want to go back. Traded my South Bend for CHIA-CO and.I got the better deal.
I am in a better position today knowledge wise so I would not make the same mistakes. With older iron you may have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your Princess.
I personally have agonised over moving up a notch or two my self. I have chased my tail quite a bit, but I find if I am honest with my self, my wants and needs are not necessarily the same.
The lathe I have does every thing I need to do. The biggest limitation I find with my 7x12 is the spindle bore. If it had a little more bore I would be one happy dude.

Good luck with your hunt. Bert

P.S Speaking of American Iron  I dont know where in On. you are but have a look at Craigs list Detroit  Logan lathe


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## lazylathe (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks again for all the suggestions and ideas and links!

At the moment i am looking at everything i can find and seeing what will work out best.
On the one hand i really love the older tools!
Just getting spares can be a major problem!
I have an old Atlas table saw from the 40's and it is amazing!
I was looking at some Atlas lathes, some have good reviews others not so good.
At one stage i was hoping to get a collection of atlas tools, but that may be unreasonable!

Back to lathes i do like some of the newer models and i especially like the idea of having spares at my beck and call!
There is just the allure of something that has stood the test of time...
Sentimental at best i know!

The one that has my heart is the Myford ML7 Heavy Duty.
I have attached a picture of the lathe for sale for you to see the condition of the lathe.
Original parts and paint, only used to make some model trains.
What do you think it is worth??

Andrew


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 11, 2011)

Andrew, if this a one owner lathe, and is-as-good as-it looks you might not ever find another like it. Condition is everything. I re-read this entire thread and it sounds like you want it badly. You will have to live with what-ever choice you make for a long time, so trying to save a buck now might haunt you latter on. You can buy a new import machine any time, any place, but you haven't. The answer to why is within yourself.

Whats it worth? The buyer will know the answer to that. And if you should end up being the buyer, it will be worth more than you paid.

-MB


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## lazylathe (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks for that MB!

It is a one owner lathe and it looks even better in person!
Runs quiet, all the bits are there.
The ways look like they have never seen dirt, not a chip or pit in sight.
all actions are smooth and precise, no play or anything.

It was used mainly for brass and cleaned and oiled after each use and covered when not in use.

The owner wants $1700 for it, but will drop it to $1500 for me.
It is about $500 out of my budget and that is about the only thing that is stopping me from calling him again.
I know it is worth it and will last me a lifetime and i will be able to sell it again one day to someone in need.

I will mull it over for another day or so...

Andrew


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## mygrizzly1022 (Jan 11, 2011)

Hi Andrew

 It looks to be a sweet hunk of iron!! 
What it is worth that simple.. It is worth what you are willing to pay.
In any deal there are usually 3 prices to consider. The ask price, your bid price, and the price your willing to lose it for.
Patience is a virtue when it comes to shopping for something like a lathe. In most cases there are not a lot of potential buyers. 
However high quality (Not CHINA CO) hobby size lathes are not too common. 

 How well tooled is it? Do a little research regarding the must have tooling that your previous experience has taught you that you need.
For example a 4 jaw, do you need one? What will it cost? 
You have to figure transportation into the Whats it worth equation because 
something as heavy as a lathe will cost a sum to crate and transport, not to mention the potential for damage.

Regards. Bert

PS At that price........You should go to confession after you close the deal!!!


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 11, 2011)

lazylathe  said:
			
		

> Thanks for that MB!
> 
> The owner wants $1700 for it, but will drop it to $1500 for me.
> It is about $500 out of my budget and that is about the only thing that is stopping me from calling him again.
> ...



$1500.!!! Your lucky I don't own a pick-up truck! You know, I'm only 5 hours drive away. I don't need it, but at that price I could just look at it sitting in my shop. ;D

The price of comparable imports is not that much less, and you need to add the PST, GST, LSD, And whatever other tax they can dream up. Oh and don't forget the shipping unless you pick it up locally. :big:

I gotta get down to the shop and do something today. 

Andrew, I wish you the best in what ever you decide.

-MB


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## chillybilly (Jan 11, 2011)

buy the best old machine you can manage ,you wont be disapointed ,the myford sounds like a real nice tool and thats the way i would go .
As to bits ,they only seem to break when abused ,i would have to try very hard to break anything on my 40 year old lathe i can assure you .
As to limitations ,they seemed to do some fine work on the machines before all the stuff from asia became available ,just look at some of the locos and stuff ................


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## pete (Jan 11, 2011)

Andrew,
If that Myford is in as good shape as the pictures and you say it is then BUY it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You'll find the extra money somewhere. If it's in top shape then it's a huge step up from any hobby type Chinese built lathe. Do not wait, Phone the seller now and tell him it's sold. Check Myfords web site for what a new super 7 costs, You will mentally kick your own butt later if you don't buy it. If I found something like that in B.C. I'd buy it today.

Pete


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## Jasonb (Jan 11, 2011)

Pete I think thats an ML-7 not a super seven, going rate from a dealer here would be about £750GBP

http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/cat_leaf.php?id=7554


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## lazylathe (Jan 11, 2011)

It is a Myford ML7, not the Super 7.
As i noted earlier it looks even better in person!
The picture is good but does not do it any justice.

I think the seller will wait for me because he keeps e mailing me to talk and send me more pictures of the lathe.
I told him i was waiting to see if i could sell my Sherline first before i bugged him anymore.
It looks like the Sherline is gone, should know in a day or two.
If it is then i have a trip ahead of me!!!

Andrew


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## pete (Jan 11, 2011)

Jason and Andrew,
Yeah I did know it was a ML-7 but used the example of a current Myford price for a Super 7 because I was too lazy to check Myfords price list for a new ML-7. (Do Myford even sell a ML-7 today?) Jasons ballpark price of 750 B,Ps. is fairly close to that $1500 except the U.K. has a lot of these for sale from various sellers. Myfords are pretty rare over here. That helps to jack up the price. If I was still driving a truck to Ontario every week and Andrew decided not to buy that lathe I'd be asking him for the sellers contact details. To me that lathes value is far more than the asking price.

Pete


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## Dunc (Jan 15, 2011)

Down Ottawa way there is a used tool & equipment dealer

Cardon, No 7 Hwy, E of Perth, 613-326-0007 (closed Mon & Tue but open Sun)
[email protected]
 The usual disclaimers; I have seen used Myford lathes but have no idea what is there now.


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## lazylathe (Jan 15, 2011)

Just an update!
I have bought the lathe!!!
The Myford is now MINE!!!! ;D ;D ;D

Going to pick it up next weekend so i am very excited!
Building it a new bench this weekend as the owner was rather attached to his bench.
No worries though, it will be a metal bench with sand in the base for extra stability.

Andrew


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## pete (Jan 15, 2011)

Andrew,
LOL, Right on, There's nothing quite like getting a new machine tool. Except now I'm slightly jealous.

Pete


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 15, 2011)

lazylathe  said:
			
		

> Just an update!
> I have bought the lathe!!!
> The Myford is now MINE!!!! ;D ;D ;D
> 
> ...



Congratulations on your choice Andrew! Based on everything you said about the lathe I was almost certain you would end up being the new owner.
A proper metal bench is a good idea, although a sturdy wood bench bolted together with bracing would also work as the lathe is probably not all that heavy. You might consider lag bolting the bench to the floor rather than adding sand ballast for stability. 

My lathe is about 250 lb, and sits on a sheet metal bench with a 1-1/4" thick top. The top is made of 5/8" high density particle board glued and screwed to 1/2" hardwood plywood. The bench has 4 drawers on one side, and a swing open door with shelves on the other side. Its filled up solid with chucks and assorted tooling. Its so heavy that only a bulldozer could push it over.

-MB


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## mygrizzly1022 (Jan 15, 2011)

Andrew

 Happy to see things went well for you .

Good luck on the bench project. I wouldnt go too crazy till you get the machine home and make a few chips.
Get to know the lathe a bit and YOUR bench requirements may be more apparent.
A big heavy bench can be a nice, but depending on your shop size a pain when it becomes necessary to move it.
In the case of most hobby machines the accuracy we require can be achieved without great heavy benches. 
Perhaps a heavy office desk with a bit of tweaking can yield a nice working surface. 
When a desk has some height added they become quite a nice bench, complete with drawers etc.
Sometimes they can be found next to free.
Some type of wheel arrangement that permits the bench to be moved to clean around is a big asset in a hobby shop.

Regards .. Bert


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## pete (Jan 15, 2011)

UH sorry,
But I completley disagree about having a lathe with wheels under it. There's not a home floor in the world that is flat. If your lathe has been properly aligned to turn true end to end then the last thing you'll want to do is move it. That Myford was built more than accurate enough at the factory to make it worth while to spend the time to properly align it.

Pete


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## Mainer (Jan 15, 2011)

I agree, Pete. It's amazing how rubbery everything is when you're looking at thousandths of an inch. I know if I tried to move my lathe bench, the alignment of the lathe would go kaflooey. 

I like Andrew's idea of sand ballast. It should deaden vibration very well.


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## bambuko (Jan 15, 2011)

Unless, that is, you eliminate the source of all this distortion and support the bed in three points only, using spring loaded studs, allowing for any twisting and thermal expansion of the bed. 
Majority of lathes are examples of very poor engineering when it comes to bed fixing to the base/bench - any more than three points and you are struggling to get it all adjusted without twisting the bed, and however carefully you adjust it, it remains vulnerable to external changes (as both Pete and Mainer are suggesting). Of course all this multitude of bolting down studs, never allow for any thermal expansion either.
And before you dismiss me as a total crank :big: : - the design I am talking about was adopted by the best lathe in the business (at least afaic) - Harding HLV :bow: :bow:
I am always amused by experts talking about levelling of lathe as a holy grail  as if a lathe with bed 1 deg away from level wouldn't work :big:
So, you can have your lathe on wheels, but not if you restrain it down with all the bolts (I think four in a case of Myford and six in a case of Boxford for example), because than, whatever happens to your bench will also be transferred to your lathe bed  

Chris


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## pete (Jan 15, 2011)

Chris,
I certainly hope the OP doesn't think were trying to hijack his thread.

I couldn't argue about anything Hardinge designed and built, They really know what their doing. A huge ammout of lathes that were built for watchmaking are only fixed in position at the headstock end. Most lathes designed for hobbiest use aren't. I read a artical by I think George H. Thomas who explained very well why just bolting a lathe down would not allow it to turn parallel end to end. His point was, That the bare lathe bed was precision ground and then the motor ect. was bolted to that bed. This results in that weight twisting the lathe bed and shims, or jacking bolts were required to twist the lathe bed at the tailstock end to match the twist at the headstock end. 

I own a Emco compact 5 lathe, Certainly not the worlds best lathe by any means. By using a add on Emco set of what they describe as leveling elements, (Their description not mine) And a test bar machined on the lathe itself, Plus a very accurate micrometer I've been able to align my lathe to turn parallel within .0003 over almost 12". My lathe is bolted down to a 1"x12"x27" piece of steel. My lathe certainly won't maintain that kind of accuracy for more than a few hours due to the standard construction used for wooden floors. If I had concrete floors then that would obviously help. 

I still maintain that if your going to go to the trouble of properly aligning a lathe, Then having wheels under it would create more problems than the convience of moving the lathe to clean up is worth. This is just my opinion and the information is worth about what you paid for it.

Oh yeah, One more point, Your 100% right about lathe leveling. That does help get your lathe to a close starting point for aligning, But final tweaking for true parallel turning must be done under cutting conditions. You could bolt a lathe down at 45 degrees out from level and as long as it's aligned, It will still turn parallel.

Pete


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## bambuko (Jan 15, 2011)

Pete, yes, perhaps we should start another thread  (sorry Andrew)
Just one final point and I will shut up ;D or start my own thread.
I totally agree with you that, with care you can adjust any lathe (as you describe) and within seconds it is out of adjustment, because the floor has moved, or because of change of temperature etc. etc.
The beauty of Hardinge design is that whatever happens to the bench, the lathe bed remains straight and un-distorted, but that's for another thread indeed :

Chris


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## pete (Jan 15, 2011)

Chris,
I'm all for starting another thread, I'm always willing to learn. And apologys again to you Andrew, Your the one that should be in the spotlight here. You now own a very nice lathe. We of course expect pictures of the new addition.

Pete


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## lazylathe (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks for the info!
Very interesting stuff!!
Does anyone have a link to how the Hardinge is bolted down?

I was looking at a Hardinge HLV for the same price as the Myford, but the weight was just too much for me unfortunately...
The next house we move into i am going to get a double garage and heat half of it for a workshop! That way size does not matter!!! ;D

I have been talking to the owner of the lathe and he says he only mounts it to the bench at the headstock.
It is mounted on two thick bars of steel.
That way the bed is just resting on the other bar and he shims it to get it level and straight.
Does that sound right??

Andrew


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## bambuko (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi Andrew, 
There is Hardinge group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hardinge-Lathe with lots of useful info etc.
I have never found a page I could link to with details of Hardinge (HLV-H) bed securing arrangements.
But here an extract from the manual:





Some info can be seen in the parts list. Here an extract showing single bolt used at tailstock end:




You can see the single stud screwed into lathe body is free to rotate in any direction on the domed part of the seat - this allows the bed freedom to twist along the length of bed as well as catering for the bow perpendicular to the length of bed. The whole arrangement is spring loaded and free to slide to account for thermal expansion. That single bolt/stud is the whole support at tail end.
At the headstock you have two points, like so:




These two, can only rotate in the axis perpendicular to the body length and do not slide.

Your chap, who only mounts his lathe at the headstock makes perfect sense to me.
I would put a bar under headstock and a ball under tailstock - that would replicate Hardinge arrangement perfectly. Of course both the bar and the ball would have to be restrained from taking a walk - but that's easy  to do.

BTW - this is just me musing on my ideas! This is not a recommendation, neither does it constitute advice - you have to satisfy yourself that whatever you do is OK ;D and safe for you!

Chris

ps if you were being offered HLV-H for the price of Myford .... almost impossible to believe ???


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## pete (Jan 17, 2011)

Chris,
Really interesting. Thanks for posting this.

Pete


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## bambuko (Jan 17, 2011)

You are welcome Pete,
Should have really been posted in our other thread on this subject, but since Andrew asked the questions here, I have tried to answer here.

Chris


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