# Small Chuck's Single Hit & Miss



## Superfast

Here it is, my small Chuck's Horizontal Single with added flyweight governor. At first I didn't know if it would work but a few suggestions by Chuck and Gail got it running! 

Here is the video, see what you think:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4KHmDs-iN4[/ame]

The engine is still in the "rough" but now that it is running pretty well I need to get rid of some tooling marks!

Scott


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## dreeves

I love it but you beat me to it ???

I am still in the process of building mine.

I would like to see the prints for the govenor. 

Great Job

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## cfellows

Bravo, love the way it runs and sounds. 

Again, great job!

Chuck


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## GailInNM

Looks and sounds great, Scott.  :bow: :bow:
I am glad you got it to submit to your desires.

Makes me want to put a governor on my 4 stroke version. Bunch of other projects ahead of that however.

Gail in NM,USA


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## b.lindsey

Hi Scott... first of all welcome to the group (from your intro post). From the video, I would say Phase 1 went very well and it seems it already runs beautifully!! Its always nice when Phase 2 can be spend polishing things up rather than trying to figure out why something isn't working. Thanks for posting the video and again, welcome to the board.

Bill


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## popnrattle

Neat engine!! :bow: Sounds like the real thing too!! Great job!!


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## artrans

great job love the way it runs where can one get the plans thank you and happy new year


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## NickG

That is superb, and what an excellent design too! Think it has to be quite high on my list of projects!


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## 13AL

Now that is slick! well done. :bow:


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## rake60

WOW! 

That is _*MODEL ENGINEERING!*_

Beautiful work and craftsmanship Scott!!! :bow:

Rick


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## ChooChooMike

Sweeeeetttt !! Nice job !!  :big:

Where are the plans available ?

Mike


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## Maryak

Scott,

Very very Nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Best Regards
Bob


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## joe d

Scott

Let me add my congratulations as well, really nice work :bow:

Cheers, Joe


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## Superfast

Thanks for all the great replies, I am really happy with this little engine. 

I am working on some drawings for the governor portion of the engine now, which I can hopefully finish in the next few days. There are no real drawings for the rest of the engine, maybe I can get some cad/solidworks time at work in the next week and draw some up. I am kind of a novice at cad but willing to give it a shot!

The next step for the engine is a water jacket to go over the cylinder. It might as well look like a Hit & Miss right? Along with a bunch of cleaning up tooling marks, a little paint and add some shine to it. I need to figure out something for it to "run" also, I plan on adding a drive pulley.

Scott


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## cfellows

There are some drawings and photos of my original horizontal single at this link:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2100.0

This is a larger version of the engine and doesn't include Scott's governor assembly.

Chuck


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## Superfast

Ok, Here are drawings for the governor parts and a basic drawing of how they go together. Hopefully the drawings are up to par and no one has too many troubles reading them.

http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/flyweightgovernor.pdf

Here is a quick idea on how to make it work with a 4 cycle version. Basically the governor linkage is split between the 2 shafts, a fork that slides with the weight action, moves the sliding cam on the second shaft. The gray areas are the gears on the 4 cycle engine. Hopefully not too confusing.






I am not going to do drawings for the rest of the engine yet, I took it apart to do a bunch of cleanup ....................... and well, had some new ideas. So far I have redesigned the base, frame and cylinder, and am currently building the new parts. The engine will have a complete new look to it when it is done. Once I finish it up, I plan on doing a full set of drawings for it, which will include the flyweight governor drawings. 

Scott


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## Brass_Machine

Scott,

Nice job on the build!

Eric


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## dreeves

superfast,

thanks for providing the prints. I am just about ready to make the parts for my engine.


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## mklotz

Scott,

Wonderful work. This will be my next project when I manage to get back in the shop (having some dental surgery done right now). I'm a sucker for any new engine mechanism to add to my collection and the idea of an air engine that sounds like a hit&miss is just too good to pass up.

My brain has gone on vacation though - age takes its toll. I can't seem to visualize how the 0-80 screw you indicate on the print as the cam lobe interfaces to the rod that actuates the valve. Everything I've visualized so far doesn't seem like it would work.

Could you please do me a favor and put up a sketch (hand drawn is fine) of that part of the mechanism?


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## NickG

Marv,

It's not just you, I think my brain has gone with yours! 

I've just looked at the post where Scott was adding the governor to his engine and understand it now! 

Scott, I hope you don't mind but I've attached a rough sketch of how I see the mechanism working .. please correct me if I am off the mark!

I like the simplicity of this design and it seems to work superbly. I guess if the flyweights drop and try to push the cam back into hit mode, sometimes it will strike the side of the roller but only until the crank rotates a little more, then once the roller is out of the way it will slot into place?


Nick


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## Superfast

Marv,

Nick pretty much hit it on the head. Here is a pdf file with some models of how the fork works with the cap screw cam. 

http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/forkdetail.pdf

The first 2 pictures show the cam in the "hit" position with the linkage fork in place. The 3rd picture shows the cam in the "miss" position.

In the parts drawings you can see that the fork guide has a slight "step" cut into it. The linkage fork rides in this step, when the cam is pulled away or not in the "hit" position, the step keeps the fork aligned. Hopefully the pictures clear it up for you.

Nick,

You are correct, sometimes the cam will strike the side of the fork, but as the crank rotates it drops into place and hits on the next stroke. I didn't use a roller/bearing style fork on my engine, mainly because of size. Instead it is simply a flat surface on the fork, seems to work pretty well. I made the original fork from brass and it is showing a little wear on it (probably cause I like the sound of the engine and can't quit running it!) from the cam "sliding" into position. If anyone wants to use this style of fork on their engine I would recommend building the fork out of steel, it should hold up a little better. I may end up going that way myself, but currently working on the new frame/cylinder design.

I wonder how the roller bearing style linkage would work with the cap screw cam design? Would it grab the edge of the bearing instead of "sliding" off a flat fork design?

Scott


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## NickG

Scott,

Sorry, I missed the fork bit and just assumed it was a roller! :-[

I think you might be right, the fork will be better giving it a nice clean surface to slide off. I really like this design, it's a cam that maybe even I could make!

I love the way your engine works sounds exactly like a hit & miss. I've never seen anything like it at any shows over here, I can imagine it attracting a lot of attention on a club stand!

Nick


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## mklotz

Scott,

Thanks for the clarification. I think I've got it now. I too was confused by the fact that it seemed the cap screw cam could strike the side of the fork. Now I see that it can but that it's acceptable.

Thanks again for the pictures.


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## dreeves

Scott,

The pdf file you provided is great but I have a question on the workings. Is an earler post you had the parts between the two shafts







now it looks af if all of the parts are now on the crank making the engine run as a two cycle??


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## NickG

dreeves, 

Scotts engine was a 2 cycle as he didn't have any suitable gears. Chuck's original engine was a 4 cycle so Scott worked out a way of making the governor work with the 4 cycle version.

Nick


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## Superfast

I have been busy doing other stuff around the house lately, but finally had sometime to get back to this little engine.

Here is the new look! It has a new base, frame and water jacket added. The water jacket was machined to use the existing cylinder I already had made. The cooling fins cut into the original design are hidden inside the new part. I added a brass trim ring around the base of the cylinder to kind of "trim" it out a bit. It still needs more cleaning and polishing but see what you think of the new look.

<a href="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/hitmiss1.jpg"><img src="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/thumbs/hitmiss1.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/hitmiss2.jpg"><img src="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/thumbs/hitmiss2.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/hitmiss3.jpg"><img src="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/thumbs/hitmiss3.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/hitmiss4.jpg"><img src="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/thumbs/hitmiss4.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/hitmiss5.jpg"><img src="http://www.scottsrc.com/machining/thumbs/hitmiss5.jpg"></a>

Scott


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## putputman

I really like what you have done to your engine. I have played the video many times and am fascinated with the hit & miss sound. I am starting to build one myself. I hope it turns out half as good as yours.

Now they say that there aren't any dumb questions, but this may be a first. ???

With this air operated engine, how would a 4 cycle run and sound any differant than your 2 cycle? It seems to me you only need a power & exhaust stroke. I wonder if you could even tell the difference in sound if you added the compression & ignition stroke. Maybe it is just for appearance.


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## NickG

Putputman,

That's true, never thought of that! It would sound different withouth the hit & miss governor but with it, it shouldn't make any difference?

 ???


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## Superfast

I would agree, 4 cycle and 2 cycle should sound the same with the governor. With a load on it the 2 cycle version should have more power available to run something, being it would hit every cycle.

Scott


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## NickG

Good point! So it's more beneficial to do the 2 stroke and easier, if you're doing the governor.


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## putputman

Thanks guys, I guess I'll take the easier route and go with the 2 stroke.


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## cfellows

Nice work, Scott. Looks similar to Bob Shore's Little Angel

http://www.bobshores.com/angels.html

Chuck


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## putputman

Well I finally got my "Chuck's single hit & miss" done. ;D ;D      I want to thank Chuck Fellows for the engine design & Scott "Superfast" for the governor design. 

I run out of room for the governor, still can't understand why, so I redesigned it a little. I recessed into the flywheel and compressed it somewhat. It also uses a compression spring to operate it.

I can't seem to get that nice sharp firing sound like Scott gets on his little engine. Got any suggestion? ??? ???


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## NickG

That is superb! :bow:

Sounds nice and sharp to me.


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## ksouers

Arv,
Very nice. Looks like it runs quite smooth.

And I agree with Nick, sounded quite sharp to me. Very distinct sound.


Kevin


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## cfellows

Very nice work, Arv. I think it sounds great. The difference in sound could be because it's a larger engine?

There's a few things that might alter the sound. You could experiment with different slave valve springs. Also, a sharper lobe on the cam might make some difference. This would result in a fast rise and shorter open time on the inlet valve. Finally, experimenting with the "exhaust pipe" would result in a different exhaust note. Maybe make it longer by adding a 90 degree elbow and adding a vertical piece?

Chuck


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## lugnut

After watching the video of Arv's sweet little engine run I was wondering if the materials used to make the head and cylinders would make a differant sound? Aluminum, brass, steel or cast iron should all have some sound dampining effect.
Mel


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## Maryak

putputman  said:
			
		

> Well I finally got my "Chuck's single hit & miss" done. ;D ;D     I want to thank Chuck Fellows for the engine design & Scott "Superfast" for the governor design.
> 
> I can't seem to get that nice sharp firing sound like Scott gets on his little engine.



Great Engine and a great sound - such a sharp cut off shows the valves are very well constructed to me. :bow: :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## putputman

Thanks guys, I'm pretty happy with it.

The cylinder is cast iron so maybe that does dampens a little. I notice a little whistle sound also. You probably can't hear it on the video because of the poor quality. I think I will fool around with the exhaust, like Chuck suggested, to see if that gets rid of the whistle and maybe improve the sharpness of the firing.


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## esteam

Great job. Very good looking engine. 

Erdem


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## dreeves

Chuck,
Will a weaker spring pressure or a storng spring. make the engine run better?


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## cfellows

dreeves  said:
			
		

> Chuck,
> Will a weaker spring pressure or a storng spring. make the engine run better?



Generally speaking, a stronger spring of .020" - .026" wire is preferred. You want the slave exhaust valve to open as quickly as possible after the inlet valve closes. This keeps the back pressure at a minimum on the exhaust stroke and is particularly important when running in hit n miss mode.

A weaker spring, of .015" - .019" wire is really only practical for running the engine on lower pressure and at slow speeds in continuous mode.

Chuck


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## Superfast

Nice Little Engine Arv !

It sounds pretty good to me. If you want to change the sharpness of the hits, try Chucks idea and put a little stronger spring on the exhaust valve. You can also try playing with the governor spring a little. What I found with mine, if I lighten the spring tension on the weights and increase the air pressure I can get the hits to spread out alittle more. The increased air pressure really gets the flywheels moving when it hits and the weaker spring will allow it to "miss" for a little longer period of time.

The whistle you are hearing is most likely the exhaust during the missed cycles. Mine was doing the same thing, the air moving in and out of the valve so fast caused it to whistle slightly. I enlarged the exhaust port a little (as much as the spring would allow) and it went away.

Great looking little engine! Do you have any picc of it sitting still? Kinda wanted to check out your flyweights!

Scott


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## cfellows

One other thing you might want to play with is the valve timing. You want to make sure the inlet valve closes well before bottom dead center.

Chuck


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## putputman

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the tip on the whistle. I'll give it a try.

I did change the governor a bit, mainly because I ran out of room. One of the first things I make for any engine is the crank. I guess once that is made, the rest can be made to fit it. Chuck's design for the crank was made for the original engine. The governor was added later. I didn't allow for this. Rather than make another crank, I came up with this design.

Here are some photos of the engine & governor.








This is the governor. I recessed the governor mount into the flywheel. The fly weight mounts and the drive system is part of the main piece. One of the advantages of this design is that there is little or no wear on the weights or movable piece. The actuator rotates with the flywheel.











I use the same cam feature that you used. The spring moves the actuator into a trip position and the weights pull it back out of trip postion. I used several springs before I got it to where it is today.


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## johnlaudano

I'm New to this forum and recently read about the air engines. I'm very impressed. Can you tell me how to get a copy of the plans? Ive tried the link in the posts but it seems not to work (it could just be my unfamiliarity with how to use it).
thanks.
John


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## kjk

The link is dead for whatever reason, but you can get Brian Rupnow's excellent drawings here:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get199

There are a number of excellent build threads for this engine as well, such as this one:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4761.75

Be aware that every builder puts their own stamp on the engine and details may vary.


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## johnlaudano

Thanks but that link appears dead also.
John


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## kjk

Just tested them and both are good.

The first is an archive of many pdfs and the second is a link to MetalButcher's build thread.

If you like you can do a google search inserting this into the search field:

"Chuck's single" site:www.homemodelenginemachinist.com


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## dreeves

What ever happened to superfast? I was looking for photos of his modified engine and the links several pages back are bad now.

Dave


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## Engine maker

I agree the links are all dead.


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## Brian Rupnow

I just went to the file hosting site "MediaFire" where I had posted many of my plans for people to download. The site seems to have been overwhelmed by viruses, and I am unable to download the plans myself!!!---Brian Rupnow


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## Brian Rupnow

I was able to find my plans on this forum under downloads, and I downloaded a zip file of .pdf's and it worked for me. I have tried to figure out how to post the link here, but can't figure out how.
Go to the download area on this site and in the search box, type "plans"---this will take you to a page full of different headings.--Find the one that says" Another Chuck Fellows engine as built by Brian Rupnow" and click it. This will open another window from which you can download the zip file of pdf's titled UPDATED_HIT_AND_MISS_STEAM_ENGINE_PLANS.ZIP


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## dreeves

Im looking for the pictures of his engine. he modified it to look like bob shores little angel. I wanted to take a close look at it.

Dave


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## Bromanelli

Superfast said:


> Here it is, my small Chuck's Horizontal Single with added flyweight governor. At first I didn't know if it would work but a few suggestions by Chuck and Gail got it running!
> 
> Here is the video, see what you think:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4KHmDs-iN4
> 
> The engine is still in the "rough" but now that it is running pretty well I need to get rid of some tooling marks!
> 
> Scott


 My name is Bob Romanelli.
I am the apprenticeship coordinator at the Max Daetwyler Corp. I run an apprenticeship program here at Daetylwer and we are in partnership with 8 other companies offering a 4 year program to rising seniors in and around theCharlotte NC area.  http://apprenticeship2000.com/

My apprentices go through a 4 year program that includes school and at work training. It is a very selective process and one that is very rewarding for the students as they graduate from it. Never the less I am always looking for good projects and after speaking to one of my graduated apprentices who is into hit and miss engines he suggested something  like a hit and miss engine as a project. One of the motors I believe was a Chuck Fellows design but I cannot seem to find any prints on it as a starting place. If I could understand how the parts work I could machine it but for now my plan is to have working prints if I can and then have my apprentices go through and redraw it and maybe scale it up. Once that is complete we could machine the parts as they get to the machine shop and then weld up a base for it when they get to the welding shop and then do some paint when they get to assembly. 
I think these projects would be wonderful for my apprentices to build, fabricate,machine and see work. They would also get to keep it at the end of their graduation. If there is any way I could get a full set of your drawings then that would help me to get this idea in the works. I&#8217;d love to see some other video to understand how the counter weight is actuated and how the mechanism actually functions. 
 Once again thankyou in advance for any information you might be able to provide. 


Best regards, 

*BobRomanelli*
Apprenticeship Coordinator                            
*Max DaetwylerCorporation*
13420Reese Blvd. West
Huntersville, NC  28078


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## cfellows

Hi Bob,

I designed that that particular engine and I do have some drawings of it without the Hit n Miss mechanism.  I believe I recall, or at least can find, how his Hit n Miss setup worked.

I have designed and built numerous small engines as a hobby, over 20 I think.  Here is a link to my youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cffellows?feature=mhee

If you would send me your email in a personal message, I'd be happy to provide you what I have and work with you on further developing plans.

Chuck


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## Bromanelli

cfellows said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> I designed that that particular engine and I do have some drawings of it without the Hit n Miss mechanism.  I believe I recall, or at least can find, how his Hit n Miss setup worked.
> 
> I have designed and built numerous small engines as a hobby, over 20 I think.  Here is a link to my youtube channel:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/cffellows?feature=mhee
> 
> If you would send me your email in a personal message, I'd be happy to provide you what I have and work with you on further developing plans.
> 
> Chuck


Chuck
This is an honor for me. Thank you so much for contatcting me. My email address is [email protected]. I would reall enjoy seeing your designs and passing them along as projects to my apprenticies. As I stated I run an apprenticship program at the Max Daetwyler Corp. I have been a tool maker for 44 years and now its my time and pleasure to give back a little of what I have learned. Some of the stuff I have I have seen of yours would be sheer magic as projects for these young individuals and a joy for me to teach how to make. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I look forward to getting a good look at the plans and planning how we will accomplish the task. 
Thank you
Bob Romanelli


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