# A V8 Maybe



## metalmad

Hi guys I guess its time I started another build log :hDe:
Some time ago someone out there in cyber space sent me an incompleate set of plans for a Chev inspired V8 and I thought I have a go at Casting up the Block.
My Mate down the road drew me up a block in CAD (Ausdier) and this is the start of the journey.
I dont know if I will ever finish it as lots of dims are unreadable or missing, but so far, im loving making the Castings. After id made up the pattens for the block Ausdier came over for the first pour, unfortunetly I know very little about Casting and had a few issues. :fan:
I did not make the sand anywhere near wet enougth and put the spew hole much too close to the flasks (edge of box) As a resault the top box lifted and I lost half an inch or so of my pour onto the dirt.
I gave another Mate, Bez a call that night and he suggested turning the pour around so the magority of metal is in the bottom flask and using lots of weight or clamping the flasks together.
So far this build is mostly about learning to cast my own Engines.

Pete


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## vcutajar

Hi Pete

For sure I will be watching your trials and tribulations as you progress on this build.  Best of luck and I wil be learning new things as you go along.

Vince

p.s.  Is this Project W??


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## metalmad

Hi Vince
The kiwi is looking great Mate
Project W is on hold for the time being but its not forgoten 
I did a repour the next afternoon and although I got a little bit of shrinkage I think The second block is usable Thm:


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## metalmad

Hi guys 
heres a pic of the gang mulling up the greensand


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## cfellows

What a couple of cutie pies!  Funny how as I get older, I find little kids to be more entertaining than ever.    I'll bet they keep your life "interesting". 

On a more sober note, you want to be careful about getting the sand too wet.  Too much water will turn to steam rather quickly and you might wind up with a faceful of molten metal.  Happened to me once, but luckily I was standing back and none of the ejecta got to me.  Scary though...

Chuck


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## metalmad

Hi Chuck
Interesting is right, they love playing in the sand but my boy finds it hard keeping it all in the box :fan:
As you can see from the pics the sand was much too dry and this time of year in a big tin shed, it drys out as you fill the flask.
These pics are from the ilfated first pour and enboldened me to the point I did a repour the next afternoon.
As you can see If I had not run out of metal due to the flask lifting it would have been a very nice Block.
I am off course pouring ingots and Barstock in the form of Sprue castings as I go along 
pete


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## agmachado

Very nice job... I'm here watching !!!

th_wwp

Cheers,

Alexandre


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## metalmad

Hi alexandre
thanks for watching
I was so happy with my almost good enougth block, I had another go the next afternoon.
Pete


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## metalmad

Hi guys 
After getting a usable Block I could not help myself and put it up in the mill.
The pics show me drilling all the holes in the lower deck to be taped 8-32 and then hogging out between the Bearing Webs to a depth of 20 mm for the time being.
As you can see from the cupful of swarf, I remelt my swarf when I think of it 
Pete


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## metalmad

I made up the patern for the sump and made my first attempt at a fixed core with some success.
Pete


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## stevehuckss396

is it just me or does this thing seem real big?  What are some of the rough dimensions for this project?


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## metalmad

Hi Steve 
I recon she will be at least a foot high or more, once the heads, Blower and carbys go on, Im planing on Casting up a bell housing so the length will be even more:hDe:
At the moment im planing on a pair of wipper snipper carbys with perhaps a one piece Aircleaner but who knows :fan:
This one may have to live out in the shed set up ready to run on a work bench as I hate to think how heavy she is gunna be LOL
Here is the sump 
Pete


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## metalmad

Here are the patterns for the rear bulk head and timing cover.
Im starting to have second thoughts about the size of the boss on the timing cover, but I may well put a bearing in it or at the very least a oil seal, any thoughts?
The current size was only determed by the width of the bit of scrap wood and the old spray can lid I had sitting around.
Pete


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## rcfreak177

G'day Pete,

Looking good mate, where do you find the time?????
My engine is no way close to where you are at. I am making Steve Hucks engine double the size.

Will be taking tips from you in regards to the block casting.
thanks for the build, you have me very interested.

Baz.


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## metalmad

Hi Baz
The little Deamon twice size now thats an idea!!
ummmmmm I wonder if that first block I cast has enougth meat in it for the Deamon scratch.gif
Maybe I better finish this one first :fan:
As far as taking tips from me, Mate you really have to be joking, I just made a very basic pattern that did not even have any Cores in it and got lucky, I really am learning this as I go.
this post brings us up to today when I drilled and tapped the rear bulkhead.
I will recast the Timing cover, but the bulkhead will be covered by both the flywheel and bell housing so maybe ill use it at least for now.
Pete


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## rcfreak177

G'day Pete,

No joke, I was racking my brains how to cast the block. For some unknown reason I could not work out how to make the pattern. Now I know how to do it from the pictures you uploaded with the pattern in multiple pieces.

I am only new to casting as well,

 The heads you have seen that I cast are a product of several failed attempts. 

Thanks to the old beer keg furnace I just kept on re melting and trying again.

Baz.


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## metalmad

Hi Baz
get stuck into it buddy, seeing that pic of your heads was a big factor in making me have a go at Casting my own V8 
I put the Block up on the mill this Arvo and finished off the ends with a fly cutter.
I am really happy with the Block Casting so far, not bad for a bush machanic LOL
Pete


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## metalmad

really got stuck into it today and drilled and taped to fit up the bulkhead then I peck drilled the Cam hole undersize from both ends to be reamed later.
There is a 1/8 oil hole above the Cam and I had been a little worried that the shrinkage I got in the casting could course a break out but it was all sweet.
I peck drilled from both ends with a long series .115 drill and then again with a .125 long series with the mill on its fastest speed.


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## metalmad

Yesterday I also started on the Head pattern which again will be a simple wedge shape with no cores.
im also thinking about making up a pattern next for the roller rocker body so I can cast one Body with every pour, there are 16 of them and i want to use the same pattern for all of them , maybe I need to make up a couple of small flasks for the little parts and do them four at a time.
Pete


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## metalmad

Hay Baz
check it out
I did a cyl head pour this arvo and despite a little shrinkage in the deck area I think its usable, Luckly I put a fair bit of meat there, maybe Ill put it up in the mill tonight and take a scim of the face to see if it can be used and With any luck get the other head cast on sunday.woohoo1
Pete


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## rcfreak177

Good stuff,

They look just like mine.

Had the same drama with shrinkage on the deck area, oh well bit extra meat is good I guess, you can always melt the extra down and use it for something else.

This casting process is fairly easy hey.

My shed is nearly finished, sparky comes on Monday to wire it up, cant wait till I can get the ball rolling again.

Please keep the posts coming, I reckon there are quite a few people checking this thread out. (Including myself several times a day)

Cheers,

Baz.


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## metalmad

Hi Baz 
Looking at your Progress, once you have a block and sump your home and hosed. I love the Chev logo on your tappet covers.
By the way did you ever get that old Enco CNC up and running?
Pete


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## starnovice

Admit it Pete, casting your own parts is almost as much fun as sex, leastways what us old guys remember about sex.

I do a fair amount of casting myself.  Your work is looking good.  If you continue to have shrinkage try using another feeder next to the area that shrinks.  Also, with the big parts you have you can go with a slightly cooler temperature and maybe reduce the number of pin holes you are getting.

Looking great!th_wav

Pat


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## metalmad

Hi Pat
Thanks Mate
Yes its great fun ant it 
I got some porosity in the rear bulk head cos I started the funace before making up my mold and drasticly overcooked my metal ending up with the hydogen pin holes you saw in the bulkhead but I guess that is all part of the learning curve Im experencing right now.
That will not be the only mistake I make in this Build LOL
I was lucky all the other pours so far resulted in lovely metal to machine with no flaws. My approch to casting at the moment is to keep it as simple as I can until I get a bit more experence under my belt and when I cast up the other head I want to try putting a riser in the middle of the head where the shrinkage occured and try that.
Pete


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## metalmad

Im expecting even more Mousepower from my new and improved, leaner and meaner timing cover. 
Pete


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## vcutajar

Way to go Pete. It seems there's no stopping you.

Vince


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## metalmad

Hi Vince
No stopping me?
I had hoped to cast up the timing cover in brass today but besides an hour or two its been raining all Day
Here is a pic of me getting my brass ready for the furnace.
Pete


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## Motormagican

Hello Pete,
     Very nice project you are working on. I have enjoyed reading and looking at the photo progress of your V-8. I have picked up some pointers watching your progress. I have only soldered engines together. No lathe yet, but soon. Keep up the great work,

Danny


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## metalmad

Thanks Danny
There is nothing wrong with fabricating an Engine Block Buddy.
The Amsbury 120 cc model V8 had a Block made up of brass plate from memory and I assume it was silver soldered together but yes, You will not know yourself once you have a Lathe and a Mill.
Just have fun.
Pete


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## metalmad

Hi guys
I did the Timing cover pour today after work and it looks like it will clean up real nice, I made it out of brass not only for looks but cos im thinking of running of just boring for a close sliding fit with the Crank but may change my mind down the track.
Dont think Ill bother melting my swarf again as I just about went crazy getting all the dross out.
Pete


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## rcfreak177

Looking good,

What type of sand are you using in the box???  (Recipe maybe)

Might have to give brass a go at some stage, have not yet tried casting it, I reckon it would be handy in the future.

Cheers Baz.


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## metalmad

Hi Baz
I just went to the landscapers and got a nice fine white sand then mixed 1 part Bentonite to 10 sand.
The Bentonite can be bought at the supermaket as kitty litter and crushed with a roller as its not refined to foundry standards or I guess you could buy the good stuff and save yourself a lot of mucking around :hDe:
Being able to cast up my own parts is a huge bost to my Hobby and is great fun in its own right ;D
Casting Brass is no harder the ally really, just a little bit hotter.
Pete


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## rcfreak177

G'day Pete,

Sweet as, thanks.

Yeah much the same, I use good old Aussie beach sand. The sand over here in the West pure white and very fine. Also used Black and Gold kitty litter 10:1.

Went through 4 of the wife's blenders :wall: every time she went and bought a new one I smuggled it into the shed and burnt it out then the :fan:. I finally got a coffee grinder which did a marvellous job of grinding the clay to powder.

Baz.


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## metalmad

Nice tip with the coffee grinder 
I will keep a look out at garage sales for one 
Gotta be better then a big hunk of Barstock on the concrete 
Pete


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## metalmad

Got Both heads done now, looks like they are both keepers too 
have not decided what to do next.
I need Main bearing Caps more then I need a Roots type Blower, but then again maybe not :hDe:
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

Hey guys Ive just purchace book called
*The Complete Handbook of Sand Casting      BY C. W. AMEN*
*ISBN 0-8306-1043-x*
a must to have if your casting cheap $17.95 Can
GRREEEAATTTTTT work


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## metalmad

Sounds like my kind of Book buddy
Bit expensive though :hDe:
Pete LOL


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## Motormagican

Thanks for the book information. I read alot and try to find books to help me improve what I do. Keep up the great threads. 

Danny


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## johnmcc69

Looking good Pete! After the casting, looks like
you'll have a good bit of machining ahead. 
Keep up the good work!!

John


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## metalmad

Thanks Guys
My build log helps me focus my energy on the Job ahead and provides me access to the opinons of a great many like minded people.
John, You are not wrong Buddy
Took a cut off the heads and one has a flaw on the deck area and im thinking of casting it again.
pete


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## trumpy81

GDay Pete,

That motor is looking sweet!! It's also HUGE!!! I can't wait till you start on the crank 

I'd like to contact you on Skype if that's OK?

I'm just waiting on the arrival of my new smartphone which I believe has Skype on it. It should be here tomorrow (Friday) or Monday. The retailer just advised me that it's on it's way 

What's the best time to contact you?


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## metalmad

Hi Andy
Just add me in Skype when your ready Mate
If your local, come over for a Coffee if you want.
looks like I can line up a combustion chamber with the casting flaw so will have a bash with what ive got for the time being.
pete


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## Motormagican

Good day Pete,
        I am in Alaska and was woundering what the time difference was? I am on Skype as well and would like to chat one day. If the time was right.

Danny


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## agmachado

Hi Pete,

No words... only whatching the excellent progress of the your job!

Cheers,

Alexandre


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## metalmad

Hi Danny
Ive got no idea about alaskan time zones Buddy other then what ive heard.
Dont the days last 6 months over there?
must make getting your Engines done easy 
Just add me in Skype and we will work it out 
Hi Alexandre
Thanks for that Mate, its getting there
Today I drilled the head bolt and push rod holes and took a skim of the top.
Pete


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## ausdier

Alaska is 17 hrs behind Brisbane.
So 5pm today is still 10pm yesterday in Alaska.
Hope this helps.


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## metalmad

Hi Guys I got a little more done over the weekend and drilled the Block and this afternoon Bored one bank.
I really should have made the Block a bit bigger cos its going to be a bit of a squeeze getting everything in.
I would really hate to have to scrap this Block as there is not a flaw in it and machines just like a bought one 
Pete


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## Brian Rupnow

Metalmad--You have certainly taken a giant leap foreward since your first i.c. engine. You are doing very impressive work. I'm glad you decided to stick around on this forum when so many of the good guys bailed out with the change of forum ownership.---Brian


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## metalmad

Hi Brian
Thanks for the drop in Mate, when you start building engines where I did the only way is up and I seem to improve dispite myself :fan:
My Father was a Sawmiller, so im following your current build with some interest and as always the imagination and ease you complete your builds with amazes me.
I am trying to obtain a copy of Inventer at the moment and hope to take some faltering steps in that direction soon.
Pete


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## trumpy81

Only hours to go before you have Inventor Pete 

The V8 is looking better all the time


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## metalmad

Hi Andy
That Inventor is great buddy.
Im going to do a little bit of drawing every night with it and see if I can come to terms with it.
Today I Bored out the other Bank and made a drawing of the timing cover, but so far have no idea how to get it from there to here :hDe:
Pete


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## metalmad

Hi Guys
Had a few dramas with the Block since I posted last as I broke a tap when threading one of the head bolts, I used a metal cutting disk in a small hand grinder to grind out the tap and Ausdier then came to the rescue with his new welder.
After I redrilled and took a skim off the block it was hard to see which one was the repaired one and down the track I will clean up the weld on the side of the Block too, there are 55 threaded holes so far in the block and more to come.
After saving The block I was so happy I bored the water jackets and did a little more work on the bearing webs .
I forgot to take a pic, so this shot in the mill is a mock up.
Pete


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## trumpy81

Pete, I take me hat off to Ausdier. He's done a great job of welding up that block for you. Next time though, don't go breaking taps ... lol


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## Dave Sohlstrom

Motormagican said:


> Good day Pete,
> I am in Alaska and was woundering what the time difference was? I am on Skype as well and would like to chat one day. If the time was right.
> 
> Danny



Danny 
I'm in SW Washington and talk with Pete via Skype on a regular basis. I'm working on a steam engine for the model of W.T Preston that Mike in Auburn WA is building.

Dave

skype name  dave.sohlstrom


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## metalmad

Hi Andy   Yes I was very impressed too, I had been worried welding would eat into the edges and leave gaps etc but there was nothing like that. All I had to do was take a cut off the deck to remove the weld build up. NICE!  Hi Danny  Im Hoping to find more model Engeneers to Chat with, so as time permits add me and say Hi. That offer goes for everybody else as well!   Thanks for the drop in Dave


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## Motormagican

Well hello to the great builders on this thread and site.
   Looks like the weld was a great save. I tell you what, you gentlemen are very good at what you do. I will watch this build and enjoy getting to know y'all as time moves on. I will also try to get on Skype one of these days. 
Thank you for all the great photos and tips.
Skype = Dgremes


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## metalmad

Thanks for that Danny 
Yes there are some very skillfull people here and part of the pleasure I get from posting my Engines is that social communication with them as I struggle to make each Engine just a little bit more complex then the last.
Got some Big end Caps done this afternoon, It was stinking hot in that tin shed today I tell you.
Pete


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## scruffy

that looks awesome, cant wait to et a machine or 2 so I can join in. Would have been hot in there today I answer phones for QLD and NSW, the QLD boys were all complaining today


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## metalmad

Thanks Mate 
But remember, you can never have enougth machines ;D
I would love a small surface grinder LOL
its a sickness:hDe:
Pete


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## ausdier

Mmmmmmm, more machines. lol


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## metalmad

Hi Mate
Im afraid you have have a terminal case my friend.
Not only do you have a small surface grinder but I think four Mills? 
you are very sick indeed LOL
Pete ;D


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## Dave Sohlstrom

It must mean I have the disease also. 2 lathes, 2 vert mills 1 with CNC, 1 horz mill, 1 shaper, 1 surface grinder 1 mini CNC router plus a complete wood shop.

Dave


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## metalmad

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
 A surface grinder and a shaper?
 Yes Yes yes, I see your point now, one mill is no where near enough
 Pete


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## metalmad

Hi Guys
I only had one job on this morning and so on the way back home I dropped into the local mini bike shop and was able to score a box of old mini bike heads and pistons for my foundry.
After that little success I had a play with the sump and made it fit the new Big end Caps.
Pete


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## trumpy81

It's looking good Pete. Have you shaved the front of the oil pan? It's hard to tell in the pic.


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## metalmad

Hi Andy
I have taken most of it off but want to install it on the block and clock eveything up before I do a finish cut 
Pete


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## metalmad

Hi Guys
Im going on Holidays for a while so will not be able to get into the shed until I get back.
Here's a teaser ;D
Pete


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## vcutajar

Enjoy your holidays Pete.  I'll be awaiting your next installment when you come back.

Vince


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## metalmad

Thanks Vince
Im going to spend a month with the inlaws so yes im looking forward to getting back ;D
Pete


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## gbritnell

Hi Pete,
I see in your assembly picture you have 2 diaphragm type carburetors sitting there. I know that some of our fellows on the West coast have used them but I haven't had much luck with them. They take some internal modifications and are very touchy to adjust. I might suggest something a little simpler for fuel delivery. You can even make it look prototypical if you so choose. This is the one I made for my 302. It's basically and air bleed type carb that's been prettied up to look like the original full sized carb.


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## ausdier

Hi George,
I don't suppose you have drawings that you would be willing to share of that awsome little carby.
Thanks.


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## metalmad

Hi George
That Carby looks wonderful, I did not know the wipper snipper ones needed modifying and it sounds like I should rethink it.
Now that you mention it, I remember reading somewhere they needed the fuel tank under pressure to run as well.:wall:
How does twin strombergs sound?Thm:
While im gone I want to think about a couple of things including some form of taper lock for the flywheel. Its been on my to do list for a while, I just dont like the idea of using a grub screw on a Crank that takes so long to make.
If worst comes to worst, I guess I can melt my little collection of carbys, ive got about a dozen now, maybe not enougth metal for the valley cover in them but its a start ;D
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi you dont need to pressureise the tank if you gas tank is higher than your carb. But you will have to remove the pump gasket from the carb
as for them beeing hard to adjust.. a simple fix is to drill the throtle plate with a .040 drill. nice work enjoy your holiday


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## trumpy81

George, I love that carby ... a true work of art and functional too! I think I will have to try and make something like that, just hope it doesn't turn out like a dog's breakfast ... lol


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## metalmad

Hi Guys
Merry christmas.
I made it home this morning after another sleepless overnighter, first thing I did of course was to open up the shed to greet some old friends.
In order to get this build back on track I started on the patern for the Valley cover but will have to do some more work on the heads to locate the inlets and water jackets as well as bolt on a subplate under the manifold.
With any luck ill get the Valley cover Cast up this week.
Hay Andy 
Did you get your new mill?
Hi Canadianhorsepower 
Would you please give some more detail on the Carbs?
I dont know if ill end up using them now or not, but would love it, if you were able to shed some more light on what to me is totaly unexplored ground.
for instance you mention the removel of the pump gasket?
Pete


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## Motormagican

Hello Pete, 
       Hope you had a great Holiday. Looking good with your project.


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## trumpy81

Welcome home Pete! I hope your holiday was a good one 

Yes I bought my new mill, but it's not the one I told you about. Long story, but I ended up buying a Titan TM45FG. It should arrive mid-January. Then I just need some pointers on setting up a casting foundry and I'll be all set to build one of these V8's ... so hurry up and get it finished ... lol


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## vcutajar

Welcome back Pete.  Hope you gathered enough energy for the V8.

Vince


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## gbritnell

Hi Pete, 
Here's what I know about 2 cycle carbs. There are 2  different internal setups used, one for a gravity fuel supply and one  for a lower type. There is a diaphragm/gasket under the upper cover, not  the side with the chrome cover. For the engines that have to draw fuel  from a lower level this diaphragm is activated by a pulse from the  crankcase via a port that comes through the carb flange. Sometimes there  is a primer bulb on this side of the carb to prime it. The other side  of the carb that has the chrome cover held with 4 screws covers another  diaphragm. This one had the metal plate riveted in the center. The metal  plate has a small boss that pushes on the lever that activates the flow  control needle valve. The way it works is when there is a vacuum signal  through the venturi it pulls this diaphragm inward which then opens the  flow needle. 
For model engine use the first thing that needs to be  done is to make a venturi reducer as even the smallest of these carbs is  too big for smaller engines. The next thing is the needle valves, idle  and high speed, need to be modified as they are to coarse for fine  adjustments. 
Several fellows use different methods for fuel feed.  One fellow made an air pump and hid it inside the alternator to provide  pulses for the carb. Another fellow uses very low pressure electric fuel  pumps to supply the carb and the last fellow has a little hand pump  that pressurizes the fuel tank to get fuel to the carb. The carb won't  flood because the fuel needle valve won't open until there is a vacuum  signal. 
I tried several methods to utilize these carbs and didn't have much luck. 
If  you look at the video of my 302 engine running you will see that I have  a small air bleed type carb on it. After years of fooling with carbs I  ended up with this type. Once I had the carb adjusted to my engine I  then made a replica of the carb that came on the full sized engines and  put all the air bleed components into it. I don't have it mounted on the  engine because it gets buried under the air filter so when people  wanted to see it I would have to pull the air filter every time. Now I  just set it out with my display.but it does run as well as the one  that's on the engine. 
When Steve Huck built his V-8 he used a similar internal design and made the outside look somewhat like a full sized carb. 
I  don't have complete drawing for my carb as I had one to copy when I was  building mine. I do have sketches for the internal air bleed passages  and venturi shape. I will dig them out for you at first chance. 
Here is a video link to my 302 running. This was taken by a fellow at a local antique engine show a couple of years back.
[ame]http://youtu.be/fRVYYtdhG_8[/ame]
gbritnell


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## metalmad

HI Danny
Thanks for that Mate, but im sure glad to be home
I was going to put up another pic of the progress with the valley cover but am having connection problems on the computer I normaly use and this one is not allowing me to log on to photobucket :wall:
That Mill is pretty much the same as mine Andy, so should do the job no worries 
As you know, Im not an expert by any means and have only done half a dozen pours so far but am starting to get an idea on the simple paterns.
Im planing to pour the Valley cover on Sunday if you would like to join me? I Watched Bez do a few pours before I jumped in with the V8 Block;D
Hi Vince
Im absolutly exhausted Mate, but this thing just will not build itself
Hi George
I have watched that Video meny times and love it all the more every time.
I am very interested in how you made what seems to be the accelerator pump and would be very much in your debt if You were able to find any details or photos that you have about your Carby and if I could push my luck a bit, the Distributor, I have no details or plans for a dizzy at all yet.
An ignition system has not even been contemplated so it would be great to see how you acheaved such a great result ;D
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi, I couldn't respond any sooner having replace 4 computers putting the set up back in full working order was a bit of work.
Back to your card info as "gbritnell" says there is a few thing to take care of with  these carb, but when all done properly they work like
a charm. the main thing is NEVER to use one with a Bubble (primer) these are garbage. As for the size of venturi size I dont think
it's an issu with what your building. If your planning to use the original carb pump all you need to do is use the positive pulse from your
crank case  " were your burp tube goes " and that is more then enought. This pprincipal is beeing use on any 4 stroke using a fuel pump.
For the metering side  "adjustement" to calibrate your spring tension on your fullcrum use a vacuum gauge, spin your motor over with your starter and register your vacum, ste the spring tention to this minimum value and your up and running. I did so many of these cards in lumber jack events and theyve all been sucess, you can run, nythro, methanol, in these with miner drilling. If you decide ti go this route, try finding the smallest one you can and that was use with read valve motor. The hole for the main jet is not locate at the same place in the venturi making it even better when use as a down draft carb. Hope this help, I'll try to find some pictures and post them

keep up the good work

Luc


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## trumpy81

metalmad said:


> HI Danny
> That Mill is pretty much the same as mine Andy, so should do the job no worries
> As you know, Im not an expert by any means and have only done half a dozen pours so far but am starting to get an idea on the simple paterns.
> Im planing to pour the Valley cover on Sunday if you would like to join me? I Watched Bez do a few pours before I jumped in with the V8 Block;D
> 
> Pete



Yeah I liked the mill Pete, it lacks the power everything that yours has but mine has auto tapping which I thought was a nice touch ... ;D

I will eventually add a DRO and power feed (X-Axis) but it will have to do for now. 

Sorry, no can do Sunday, I'm busy with chores ... dammit! I would have liked to see you pour and get some more details about your burner etc... I will try to get up there soon though.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Pete,
The accelerator pump is just there for looks, along with the automatic choke housing. The needle valve is hidden underneath it. 
I found the drawings for the carb. If you have some way of reading .dwg files I can send them to you. There's too much on one layer to send you a PDF file. It would get terribly confusing. As far as the distributor I don't have a completed drawing. I made sketches using the original distributor that had points in it and changed it over to a Hall effect type. I could send you the drawing that I supply with the prints for my 4 cylinder OHV engine. This would give you an idea of how it's built. You could add your own dimensions to it. All of my Hall distributors are built pretty much the same way. I have one fixed magnet mounted on an angular base inside the the distributor. The Hall is mounted to an aluminum plate on the outside. Inside there is a steel, and it has to be steel, disc which has windows in it. As it rotates the windows turn the magnetic field on and off to trigger the Hall sensor. 
gbritnell


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
I notice that one of my collection has a much smaller venturi hole then the others although at at this time I don't have a pair and found 4 with the primer bulb which Ive striped and put in the pot ready to cast the valley cover.
No Worries Andy, give me a yell when your ready 
Hi George
Yes please send both the Carby and Dizzy drawings, I'm very very keen to see how you have done both.
My Email is
[email protected]
or skype
metalmad11
I have never used the Hall effect type and am a little scared of them:hDe:  
George, is that a mechanical advance I see hooked to the accelerator rod?
That I have To see!! 
I have done a little more on the Valley cover today and will mount a flat plate on top to bolt on the Roots type Super charger if and when I get one made.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Here have a look at this video and it should build faith in your project
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIZudHqtEmY[/ame]

cheers
Luc


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Luc
I have seen this before and the later videos are even better.
The one that started this project for me was a run with the blower that sent chills down my spine.
Its interesting to note the rocker gear on the Black widow seems to run on a rod and the rockers in what I have are stud mounted.
I can not account for the many differences and contradictions on my partial plan set, but The Blown Video had such a huge impact on me I had to try and make something of what I have. As a result my Engine is inspired by the Black Widow, yes but I simply don't have enough information to build that Engine and am just winging it and hoping it works :fan:
Pete


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Pete,
As far as the rockers go, over here GM was the first to go with individual rocker arms. Ford had rocker shafts up until the 260 V-8 around 1962. Although my 302 should have individual rocker arms to be prototypically correct I went with rocker shaft for lubrication. Individual rocker arms are lubricated by oil going through the hollow pushrods which would be almost impossible to recreate while the shaft can be fed by an oil line taken from an internal oil passage in the block. My engine has the same lubrication system as the full sized engine. It has a geared pump driven off of the distributor shaft which feeds oil to the filter, to the oil passages in the block and then through the crank to the rods. I originally tore the engine down several times for leaking head gaskets but never for oil related problems. 
gbritnell


----------



## metalmad

Hi George
Whenever I look at the factory like detail on your Engines im inspired even more.
I have so many exciting things to build on this project, I hardly know where to turn. Perhaps its not such a bad thing that there is so much missing from my plan set as its testing my limits a little.:fan:
I have so much to do its not funny, ive started work on a steel mold and core for the pistons and am ready to cast the manifold.
Your dizzy cap has given me an idea of turning up the cap in parts, drilling and then pressing in the  8 outside cyl  wiring holders as incerts that id like to try, I just gotta find some plastic.
I also think I can adapt your dizzy to fit so thats another headache solved Thm:
The head gaskets I intend to trial thin lead sheeting.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Delran is easy  to work with for your distributor.
Why don't you use modeling clay for the mold .. woudnt that be easier?????


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
I have a little left over from the Wallaby dizzy cap and that machined real nice, so if there is enough ill use that.
The piston mold I'm toying with is basically a bit of pipe with an internal taper, a 5 piece core sits inside that and my hope is that if I disassemble as soon as the alli freezes but before it cools, I maybe able to make  easy and reliable internal piston shapes for example the internal boss  etc.
The piston could then be put on a mandrel and the outside turned, if this is successful this mold would see service in many of my other engines as well.
I wish I had thought of this before as I melted 5 mini bike pistons to make my heads but would have preferred to save those for casting my own pistons rather then use for instance material from an old intake or head.
Pete


----------



## robcas631

That is an awesome engine!


----------



## metalmad

Hi Rob
Happy new Year!


----------



## metalmad

I had a bit of a fail today on my first attempt at the intake manifold,
I used a spoon to carve out the area under the sides of the manifold but did not leave any way for the metal to get into the mold, as soon as I started to pour I knew I had a mispour, The second attempt went very well indeed and I must say I surprised myself with how good it came out 
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Heres a pic after a go on the linisher.
just for kicks!
Pete


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Pete---Great work. What the heck is a Linisher??--Brian


----------



## metalmad

Hi Brian
Thanks buddy
A linisher is just a belt sander.
I picked up a second hand one and really use it a lot now making my patterns as well as cleaning flashing of castings etc, mine has a disc on the side as well as the belt and I wonder how I ever got on without it ;D
Pete


----------



## Motormagican

Pete, looking real good, who is the helper you have there in the photo. Good luck with the distributor cap and piston.

Happy New Year


----------



## metalmad

Hi Danny 
Thats my son Kevin, Hope he still looks up at me like that when he's 15 ;D
He just loves the sandbox, who knows maybe I can get him interested.
Happy new year 
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys Spent a bit of time on the V8 today and bored out the big end on the Mill.
Forgot to take pictures but here is a pic of the set up and end bearings installed.
I need to get a Crank happening soon.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
I made up the rear end plate today and bolted it on but have left it a little long so I can set up the endplay once the Crank is made.
The bit of half inch round is just for show  
Pete


----------



## Motormagican

Pete, that engine is going to look real good once finished. Shoot!! It looks great now. I will keep following you progress.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Danny
Thanks Mate 
It was sooo hot today, that tin shed was like a oven but I got the block extenders done but so far only the front one is bolted down.
The carby adaptor sitting on the manifold will eventualy bolt on top of the blower as im making the hole pattern the same, blower and manifold.
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

G'day Pete,

Looking good, you seem to be making good progress. Have you decided on the material and design for the crank yet?

Sounds like you are getting heat like we had last week in WA, We had 40degC for 8 days straight tipping at 47C at my place.
Finishing the insulation and plaster board off in my new shed was absolute torture.

Baz.


----------



## metalmad

Hi
Baz
Year mate its hot and its hard to keep it together, Yesterday I made up the carby adaptor but drilled everything in the wrong place so will have to remake it at some stage, lucky its a simple part 
Down the track a bit id like to insulate the tin shed too, right now shes an oven.
Have not even given a thought to the Crank yet but one thing I do know is that there is no way this thing is gunna fit my display cabinet much longer if I keep bolting bits on it LOL
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Well Today the smoke haze seems to be lifting so thats good,
When you see semi trailers parked in school grounds and cherry pickers in neighbors front yards even I start to pay attention.
Yesterday there was a heavy smoke haze everywhere but its clearing today.
I painted the supercharger pattern today and am thinking of doing a pour soon, maybe tomorrow if I get around to it.
Pete


----------



## kutzdibutz

Hey Pete- 
if my computer brakes from my drooling I will send you the bill!! Really cool stuff- following along with interest..

Cheers, Karsten


----------



## Motormagican

Hello Pete,

Hello Pete,

Smoke; was there a fire in your area? I understand it is hot where you are.It is only 20*F here in Alaska, we are going to get ice soon. 

Your engine is looking real good. I am learning more each post you make. I hope the other gentleman, Karsten does not droolon his computer, with all you have going on you cannot take the time tohelp him wipe off that stuff. And I don't blame him at all. LOL! 
Great work Pete.


----------



## dmac

Hi Pete,

Have been watching you build with interest.

FYI, I retrofitted insulation into my shed, made a huge difference.
Just staple gunned it to the battens.


----------



## e.picler

Hello Pete.
I`m in Brasil and building the Tiny in Line 4 from Kelly. My thread is Building the Tiny inline 4 in Brazil.
I just visited your thread today and found it really interesting.
It is amazing the way you are building your baby. I`m very impressed for your dedication doing everything by yourself and using scrap material for your castings congratulations!!!
I also plan to build a V8 after finishing the TI4. I have purchased the plans from Steve (great wonderfull project).
I will be following your progress with close interest.

See you.
Edi from Brasil


----------



## metalmad

Hi Karsten
You might send that Bill to Intel maybe??
Your chances would have to be better there then with me LOL
Glad your enjoying the journey 
Yup Danny there are fires everywhere cos of the heat at the moment.
I had a job this morning that took most of the day as the dirt had turned to powder and the machine would not get traction and had to be pushed between stumps by the customer and myself.
Hi dmac
What did you use ?
It looks transparent and I assume your dropped the lights?
maybe I can do the same 
Hi Edi
nice to hear from you and I have heard Steve's plan set is very good so building that engine would be a pleasure.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
I drilled the push rod holes and bolted down the intake this arvo after work, then cleaned it up a little, those pistons sure make a nice hard intake 
Both the push rod holes and the inlet bolts gave me a bit of stress as on one sheet the rod holes are .250 and on another .375 so I chose the little one as I can drill it larger later if needed and the inlet bolts were 6-32 on one sheet and 8-32 on another with completely different hole centers, I used the 8-32 as I they ended up between the push rod holes rather then into them, I liked that as its so much stronger!
This build sort of reminds me of those kids books with two or three different endings depending on the choices you make LOL
I kinder reckon this plan set was never meant to be built :fan: 
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

your the man go for it nice work


----------



## e.picler

Hei Pete!
You are really  making good progress.
Have you already decided the size of the piston? Is it much bigger compared to Steve`s engine?
I`m lookingforward to see this beast running.

Edi


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
Thanks for the support, I'm going to need it when the going gets tough 
what I have for the Cam shows two different cam angles (110 degrees and 114 degrees and a totally different firing order on different sheets)
I'm thinking of going standard chevy firing order but will have to see what the cranks like first.
Hi Edi
I'm planing for a one inch piston so far and from memory Steve used a .623 piston on his V8.
I plan to study his Cam and fixture when the time comes, maybe I can adapt it to my block. ( hope you don't mind Steve  )
George's dizzy, Steve's Cam and Amsbury"s Flywheel and collet, all modified, I think I'm getting a headache. :fan:
Pete


----------



## ShedBoy

Sounds like a cursed set of plans you were given. I find the bloke and give him a good talking to.

Brock


----------



## rcfreak177

Come on Brock,

That guy was me. I'm the silly bugger that paid 200 bucks for the bloody things from some dodgy seller off Ebay  

Baz.


----------



## metalmad

Hi brock
Thanks for dropping in 
The plans are challenging but are forcing me to grow just to get a result.
Baz you payed $200 dollars real money??
Not your best day my friend 
These plans have little in common with the real "Black Widow"
so I have called my engine "the Shadow"
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

"The Shadow" Ha Ha Ha Rof}Rof}Rof}

Yeah well, you win some and you loose some as they say.
That day I lost some.

You are doing very well considering, good to see.


----------



## Motormagican

Pete,
      The shadow from the radio show knew all. I guess your plans are a little short on knowing all. However, looking real good. Keep up the good work.

      Will continue to follow your progress. 

      Doing a beautiful job.


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Danny
I cast up the blower this arvo but in my haste to remove it from the sand I broke of the pouring spigots which left a nasty hole, I really am an idiot sometimes, bugger it.
will put it up in the mill tomorrow and see what its like.
There is about 1/4 of an inch to be machined of the bottom but I don't know if I have the allowance front and back to remove where the spigot broke off.
Think I will recast it.
Pete


----------



## robcas631

I learn so much from the professionals!


----------



## metalmad

Hi Rob 
Your Taking the Micky I reckon 
I did a little more on my piston mold today.
The part in the lathe is made up of 5 parts held together with 4 pins and the center half inch square bit will bolt on to a base which will sit in a vice.
A outside shell will but up to the last shoulder, which has a 6 degree inclusive taper to allow piston release.
At the moment the Core section is at 1.00" so I better remember to take it down a bit or there is going to be a Tardis Moment when I turn down the outside of the piston. LOL
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
Im almost ready to do some trial pours for my piston mold, Im hoping to come up with an easy way of pouring high quality pistons.
If all goes to plan, Im hoping to be able to pour all the pistons in one melt.
Pete


----------



## vcutajar

Pete

You are really flying with this build.  You seem to enjoy casting parts.

Vince


----------



## schilpr

For some insight on how to cast pistons check out this post on the hamb from member Dolmetsch, he does some trial and error but makes some very nice racing pistons.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=519792


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Vince 
Hi schilpr,
 Thank you very much for posting that link, Im reading it now ;D
Dolmetsch is the real deal alright!
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys 
I did do a trial pour over the weekend but unfortunately ran out of gas.
I was able to learn a few things, firstly the metal froze basically on contact even though the mold sat on top of the furnace during the melt so I will need to get a ladle that Carry's enough metal for the piston, it will have to be poured quickly.
I also had  a lot of trouble removing the center core rod so today added a stripper plate, but found a lot of filing was still needed to remove the core rod even cold.
If I have any more trouble next time ill add a hydraulic jack to push the stripper plate off the core rod:fan:
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

http://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIm2._tQlkEAbLkWFQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=how+it%27s+made+piston&vid=d401262d34d42da40e7a767bfef1554b&l=3%3A20&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4765533338796241%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFdQVa5mwbHs&tit=How+Its+Made+Engine+Pistons&c=5&sigr=11arklq3c 
 you might like this


----------



## Motormagican

Hello Pete,
      I guess the video sure makes it look easy. I hope you get everything right on the pistons, Like the frog in the Cranes beak, the frog holding on to the cranes neck say Never Give Up.
Looking good pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc, cool Video Mate 
Hi Danny
I think the mold is ready to go now but I still need to set up a mold preheat burner and find some sort of suitable Ladle as well as buy gas etc
I feel my first trial proved the concept but still have to sort out a few details, I also want to wait till I have a helper as two burners will be used.
 I have an old pump up blow torch that looks like it runs on kero or something similer and im going to try that if I can find out how it works.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
I hope to get some gas etc tomorrow so as soon as I have everything set up ill do a piston pour.
In the meantime I did a little more head work today and then did a trial fit to make sure all the head bolts lined up, even after robbing all the sump bolts, I'm still 10 head bolts short 
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Thm:th_wwpwoohoo1


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc 
Will this one Do?
At this stage I plan to pivot on the top bolt and have a slotted adjuster on the bottom and Im hoping the bell housing will totaly inclose the gear end of the starter.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Hi Luc
> Will this one Do?
> At this stage I plan to pivot on the top bolt and have a slotted adjuster on the bottom and Im hoping the bell housing will totaly inclose the gear end of the starter.
> Pete


hey anything on this project is a delight


----------



## Motormagican

Hello there Pete,

Each photo you post is a benefit to us watching this build. First scalemodel engine I have seen with a starter built on. I believe you will get thebell housing to cover up the starter chain. 

It is looking real nice. I know about robbing bolts, I had to change somearound to get things moving on my end. I then had to go purchase more andreplace the ones I robbed.

Can't wait to see your pistons.


----------



## metalmad

thanks for the support guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



This arvo, I was testing out the old kero blow torch and decided I may as well do a pour since I already had one of the blowers going.
While I proved the concept with a near perfect piston, I had a lot of trouble with the center core again and have decided to add hydraulics before I go any further, Once the middle core was out the other middle bits came out easily but the outside ones were very difficult so I filed a bit of relief on the ends of those for next time.
The little marks on the end of this piston will not happen once the mold is releasing like it should.
Pete


----------



## vcutajar

The inside of the piston looks very good.  Much better than what I had for the Kiwi piston.

Vince


----------



## metalmad

Yes I'm very pleased with how it came out, its about .870 on the inside and if I can solve the mold release problems I should do the rest this week sometime.
I think if I jack out the center as soon as I pour it should be a go.
I'm hoping to get a nice light set of thin wall pistons that all weigh the same after machining.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

I made up my hydraulic stripper thingy and did another trial pour, 
the jack just striped it out of there no problem, but to my surprise the middle bits were hard to get out and I'm wondering if its due to the draft I put on the end of the outers :shrug:
I could have done another pour but wanted to evaluate what Ive done and look for any informative witness marks on the piston ETC
At this stage I'm planing on milling a small slot on the inside of the middle bits for screw driver leaveage before the next trial.
I only need another six pistons by the time I get all the bugs out of the system, I wont need it anymore  :lolb: 
Pete


----------



## alihureiby

th_confused0052 th_wwpth_wav


----------



## MuellerNick

The core will get out easier, if it has some release agent on its outer surface. Sooth from a O/A-torch is one commonly used. Maybe anti-splatter-spray for MIG-welding works too (never tried it).

Nick


----------



## canadianhorsepower

hey If I build a v12 or you going to poor my pistons? :hDe:
great work


----------



## rcfreak177

Looking good Pete,

I am intrigued,

Never seen this before, might have to give it a go at some stage.
Loving the pictures.

What's that motor from you have mounted to the engine???

Looks like a windscreen wiper motor.

Baz.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Alihureiby
Where In Indo are you from, I just got back from there 
 Nick thanks for dropping in.
 I milled a slot in the back of the middle cores and that has helped a lot. I did a pour but ran out of metal before the last piston, It seems to be working fine now but perhaps some kind of release agent might help a little as well.
Hey Luc
 Why only a V12 ?
 Baz
  Its a starter motor from a Chinese minibike, hopefully it will do the job.
The price was right 
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Hi Alihureiby
> Where In Indo are you from, I just got back from there
> Nick thanks for dropping in.
> I milled a slot in the back of the middle cores and that has helped a lot. I did a pour but ran out of metal before the last piston, It seems to be working fine now but perhaps some kind of release agent might help a little as well.
> Hey Luc
> Why only a V12 ?
> Baz
> Its a starter motor from a Chinese minibike, hopefully it will do the job.
> The price was right
> Pete


Rof}Rof}Rof}Rof}it's only a twin  Rof}Rof}


----------



## Motormagican

Looking great Pete, sure enjoy the photos. You are doing great work. Nice thinking on the starter. 

Watching your progress,


----------



## alihureiby

metalmad said:


> Hi Alihureiby
> Where In Indo are you from, I just got back from there
> Nick thanks for dropping in.
> I milled a slot in the back of the middle cores and that has helped a lot. I did a pour but ran out of metal before the last piston, It seems to be working fine now but perhaps some kind of release agent might help a little as well.
> Hey Luc
> Why only a V12 ?
> Baz
> Its a starter motor from a Chinese minibike, hopefully it will do the job.
> The price was right
> Pete



hii 

surabaya, east java. and where you go here? 

ali


----------



## alihureiby

hi pete

look from the v8 engine you build , the piston size  
i think it can powered go cart :O


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Just curius how many cc is thing going to be??


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Danny
Hi Ali
I was in Suabaya For a couple of weeks over Christmas, remember the outside of the piston has to be turned down so they are larger now then the finished piston 
HI Luc
Its 1/3 scale of 6.28 cubic Inches, maybe Ali is right and a supercharged Go cart is on the cards 
I made a short Video to help explain my process.
Pete

[ame="http://youtu.be/HDRj_kE8RwA"]http://youtu.be/HDRj_kE8RwA[/ame]

100%

100%


----------



## alihureiby

hii pete

so you visiting the house of sampoerna too?
because my home is really close there  

ali


----------



## trumpy81

Love the aussie safety boots Pete ... lol

It's looking good so far, keep up the good work


----------



## metalmad

Hi Ali
Its a pity, I would have loved to meet a local Model Engeneer while I was there 
Hi Trumpy
I was wearing them for the Video in case I had to swim back to the house ;D
Now that Ive got a full set of piston slugs I roughed one down to 1.125" to get an idea of what the metal is like.
I had intended to melt pistons for the slugs but ended up using what scrap I had, even so the slug machined well and will make nice pistons.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete,, your laying these piston  faster then a chicken lays eggs


----------



## Motormagican

Very good setup there Pete, getting hard not wanting to see how it will sound when you start that big boy up. 

Good work,


----------



## metalmad

cluck cluck 
Long road ahead danny 
Its early days yet!
Ive roughed out the pistons now and will put them aside til im a little further into the build.
pete


----------



## metalmad

Ok Guys
I recast the Blower and it looks usable so will make a start on it. The bit of plate will be the adaptor for the intake.
Pete


----------



## Motormagican

Very nice looking pour. Still watching! Have a great day!


----------



## metalmad

Don't even think about it!
I got the fastest Computer on the Net


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
I remade the Carby adaptor plate today but have not bolted it to the Blower housing yet.
I wanted to think about weather or not to countersink the 4-40 bolts as well as the bolts that hold on the Blower, I think it will be more in keeping with the sunken bolts I plan for the Tappet Covers.
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello Metalmad!


If you want to keep things like the full size engine the adapter and the drive snout are the only holes counterbored. All the other bolt heads should be atop the surface. Even the rear cover is surface and not sunken.

This is the best picture i have.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Steve
Thanks for posting that pic, its Awesome.
I notice the two middle blower mount bolts are hex head, is that customary? or just a feature of that Engine.
Im glad you said something Steve, I was going to counterbore the blower tomorrow, almost did it today but decided to sleep on it 
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

metalmad said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> I notice the two middle blower mount bolts are hex head, is that customary? or just a feature of that Engine.
> 
> Pete



Those 2 bolts were replacements that needed to be longer than the originals. They needed to be longer to mount the linkage plate. You can see the black plate that mounts with those 2 bolts. That is where the linkage comes and the throttle cable connects.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

stevehuckss396 said:


> Hello Metalmad!
> 
> 
> If you want to keep things like the full size engine the adapter and the drive snout are the only holes counterbored. All the other bolt heads should be atop the surface. Even the rear cover is surface and not sunken.
> 
> This is the best picture i have.


being a GM man  my eyes get's full of water when I see picture like this:fan:
Hey Pete this his coming along good, nice workThm:


----------



## alihureiby

stevehuckss396 said:


> Hello Metalmad!
> 
> 
> If you want to keep things like the full size engine the adapter and the drive snout are the only holes counterbored. All the other bolt heads should be atop the surface. Even the rear cover is surface and not sunken.
> 
> This is the best picture i have.



wowwww  

MUSCLE ENGINE. beautiful.


----------



## metalmad

I Bought the Blower bearings the other day so I better cast up the holders.
Big Kev is holding a simple no draft pattern for the Pic Thm:
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Did a quick pour of the blower front bearing holder and scored some nice offcuts for the crank and flywheel 
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Getting the back bearing plate ready for casting, I made a divot with a center drill where the holes will be and lined up my Steve inspired toothpicks with the bolt holes. I gave it two good thick coats of varnish hoping surface tension will fill in the tooth pick undercut.
If I get time i'll do a pour tomorrow.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

:bow::bow: man can you cast good looking stuff :bow::bow:


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Luc
You can thank Steve for this as I had intended to make the back plate flat with simple crosswise fins but I found his photos so inspiring I came up with the "Two Daisy disign" and I feel it is a little closer to the real deal 
By the way Steve If you read this, are the little screws on the centers philps Head? and are there two or 4?, im thinking of adding them as a nice detail point.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Pete....................................................................................................
.........................................................................................................
........................................................................................................speacheless


----------



## stevehuckss396

3 phillips each holding the little round bearing covers on


----------



## stevehuckss396

From what I see it looks as if the entire blower is shifted forward to clear for the distributor. You could shift your adapter plate and blower forward.

If you are worried you could shorten up your pattern and repour.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Steve
I think once ive got the blower built i'll remake the adaptor with half an inch clearence for the dizzy. I have turned the housing around now and its about right but I want the big flange at the back, maybe I will get used to it
Pete
PS
As a very last result I guess I could go Ford


----------



## stevehuckss396

metalmad said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> As a very last result I guess I could go Ford




Go top fuel with twin distributors out of the timing cover.


----------



## trumpy81

Steve, Top Fuel don't run Chevy's, they run Mopar *knuppel2*  :big:

And what's wrong with Fords anyhow?


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81 said:


> Steve, Top Fuel don't run Chevy's, they run Mopar *knuppel2*  :big:
> 
> And what's wrong with Fords anyhow?




Chevy, Mopar, that's debatable. Thats like saying nascar runs Chevys, and Mopar's. There is'nt a chevy or Mopar part out on that track.


Theres nothing wrong with fords. I have 3 in the garage right now. 2009, 2010, and a 1928


----------



## Motormagican

Very nice looking progress. Take care and keep the photos coming.


----------



## metalmad

Thanks for the support Danny
I did a pour today and I think the gear cover, can be used but the frount bearing spigot needs to be repoured.
I had a bit of trouble screwing in the removal screws in the back of the patterns and the sand got knocked around a bit:fan:


----------



## canadianhorsepower

*beer**beer* here Pete the beer is on me, thanks for all these pictures

I can already hear the blower wistlingwoohoo1woohoo1


----------



## metalmad

Cool I could go a beer or 3 Thm:
I love the alien tech look of the last pic.
Pete


----------



## alihureiby

canadianhorsepower said:


> *beer**beer* here Pete the beer is on me, thanks for all these pictures
> 
> I can already hear the blower wistlingwoohoo1woohoo1



i want that too, lol.


----------



## metalmad

Hi ali
I have always wanted a supercharged V8 so if it runs, I just might do a Happy dance th_wav
I recast the bearing spigot today but got shrinkage again so I gave up and stuck some bottles in the sand to make up some Bar stock, while I was at it I made enough for the other Volosity Stack.
Pete


----------



## rodw

canadianhorsepower said:


> Pete....................................................................................................
> .........................................................................................................
> ........................................................................................................speacheless



Me Too! Keep it up!


----------



## Mknorr

Hi Pete, I just saw this thread. What a great build. Many thanks for sharing. Thm:


metalmad said:


> PS
> As a very last result I guess I could go Ford


Oh the humanity!

Cheers,
Manfred


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Hi ali
> I have always wanted a supercharged V8 so if it runs, I just might do a Happy dance th_wav
> I recast the bearing spigot today but got shrinkage again so I gave up and stuck some bottles in the sand to make up some Bar stock, while I was at it I made enough for the other Volosity Stack.
> Pete


Hey Pete, 
everyday when I wake up I make myself a coffe and check up dates on HMIM
when I see your picks I have to pinch myself making sure I'm not dreamingRof}
*I have always wanted a supercharged V8 so if it runs,*
this quote comming from you was quite funny


----------



## metalmad

Hay Rod how did you go with the threading?
I have made three draw bars of different sizes for my mill and have used booker rod for all of em (threaded rod) works great.
Hi Manfred
Where are you located Mate?
Well Luc
 I sure wish I was so certain, Im still not sure where the dizzy is gunna go yet, so the thought of it actually starting is kind of premature. :fan:
I drilled the cover holes today and fitted the bearings but no matter what I did, I have not been able to remove the flaws from the gear cover.
I have filed and strugled with it till the flange is almost half the width of the spigot flange and its still no good, it also has a flaw on its front face but that would have been covered by the spigot.
Its time to bite the bullet and recast the gear cover.
Pete


----------



## Mknorr

Pete, I'm in Dapto, NSW.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hey Pete,
               you know what, If you dont know were the dizzi is going to be .............. don't use one 
                with all the work you put into this why not going dizziless  :idea:
                4 coils and there you go that would be knew school


----------



## rodw

metalmad said:


> Hay Rod how did you go with the threading?
> I have made three draw bars of different sizes for my mill and have used booker rod for all of em (threaded rod) works great.



I machined something up but have not cut the thread but the guys have set me straight over on my Aussie Shed thread.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f15/rods-aussie-shed-19885/

I will be ready to get onto it after a bit of practice during the week.


----------



## robcas631

It's wonderful to see the creative process in motion. Please keep us informed.


----------



## metalmad

I do see model Enginering as a Art Form and I defy anybody to power a go kart with "blue poles":hDe:
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
Ive repoured the gear cover now and drilled out the Blower housing but the boring bar I had planed to use for the rotor cavity is just not up to it.
I think ill put the Blower aside while I chew it over some more :fan:
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

AAAWWWWWWW
 Pete, you can't post only one picture
I'm like a big dog waiting for a nice big steak
and all I get is a small treat
nice work buddyThm:


----------



## alihureiby

canadianhorsepower said:


> AAAWWWWWWW
> Pete, you can't post only one picture
> I'm like a big dog waiting for a nice big steak
> and all I get is a small treat
> nice work buddyThm:



i'm with you Luc, th_wwpth_wwpth_wwp


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
Had a real shocker of a day today.
I was just putting a few finishing touches to my new gear cover and the mill bit slipped in the collet breaking the bit and distroying two days work.
I will have to re pour the cover yet again, its a good thing I know the guy who makes em LOL
To make myself feel a little bit better I did a mock up with the rear cover, all the bearings are installed but the bolts are too short and are just sitting there for the photo so it gives an idea of what it will look like once I buy some bolts.
Pete


----------



## rodw

What a bummer Pete! 

Glad I have not graduated to making parts that take 2 days yet, as there would be an enormous backlog of work in my shop!

I have enough trouble with small parts progressing through several versions, let alone castings!


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Rod
Bummed out is a bit of an understatement but I will dial in the pattern a little bit more before I pour it again so I will continue to move forward.:fan:
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

WHAT A BUMMER I guest this is were no pain no gain has it's real meaning
ncie work keep it up Man


----------



## stevehuckss396

That sucks!  That's part of model building i'm afraid. I'm sure everybody on the forum has a few extra parts on the bench that can never be used. Those become the display parts at the show. We have all done it Pete so you are in good company.


----------



## metalmad

yes I guess so guys but on a happier note I was pleased with how well the fins lined up with the bolt holes. I drilled from the other side so that the bearing holes were done at the same setting as the bolt holes and it was a relief when I turned it over.
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

I don't believe it Pete, there is one part of the plans I gave you that was right

Hey Pete, do you use the de-gassing tablets in the melt when you are casting??

The reason I ask is I got some from Foseco here in Perth, did a test pour today and after using this stuff (Nitral C-19) I was able to cast a piece that I proof machined and found the material density was text book style, absolutely no porosity visible at all.

If only I had of know'n this before scrapping the other hundreds or so parts due to porosity. The guy I spoke to gave me all sorts of tips to ensure casting success. They were ultra helpful and intrigued with what us hobby guys get up to in our sheds.

You'r progress is looking great, I am following every step of the way.

Baz.


----------



## metalmad

Sorry Baz
I went with my own bolt pattern after I saw one sheet had the bolts as 4-40 and another as 8-32  :shrug:
The Blower plans are suspect as well although better then the rest.
Im scared stiff wondering  what other little surprises are waiting for me :hDe:
I use no additives at all in my melts but I do not stir the metal and pour as soon as its all melted to avoid hydrogen porosity due to over heating, for the same reason I never turn on the furnace until after ive made up my molds.
 I make sure I get all the dross out and pour the first bit into a muffin tin in case any rubbish is in the first metal to pour, I just use that muffin in the next melt.
Pete


----------



## trumpy81

Hang in there Pete, It's looking better all the time.


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Andy
All this rain is driving me crazy, yesterday It was raining so much the mill just tripped out the circut breakers everytime I tried to use it :wall:
                            It was fine today and I guess, Im just about back on track now with the end plates, will do the gear cavity tomorrow.
Pete


----------



## trumpy81

metalmad said:


> All this rain is driving me crazy, yesterday It was raining so much the mill just tripped out the circut breakers everytime I tried to use it :wall:



If the rain is tripping the circuit breakers then I would be investigating that pronto!! It might not be a problem now but down the track you may be in for much bigger problems, like a 'live' shed for example.

This is not something you want to take a chance on. How would you feel if your shed burnt down? It wouldn't be the first time a fire was started because of an electrical fault such as this.


----------



## Rivergypsy

Shocking...


----------



## fabio_exata

that beautiful work...


----------



## metalmad

Thanks fabio
Ive been a bit crook for a few days but today I started playing with the pattern for the Ram, I guess this is as good a time as any to learn how to make cores.
Pete


----------



## fabio_exata

for sure!
I'll be here in Brazil watching every step of his work


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
The plan so far with the Ram is.
I have turned the top 1/2 inch of the Velosity stacks down and matching holes will be bored in the bottom rectangular base of the Ram and grub screws will hold the stacks to the Ram scoop.
The base of the scoop is about .250 deep and can just be seen sitting on the blower base, once Ive cast it up i'll put up a better pic.
Pete


----------



## Motormagican

Looking real good Pete, you sure have a great way with metal. Glad to be watching your build.


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Danny
Its nice to know there is interest in the build  
I went shopping today for core materials but was unable to get any Molasses, I reasoned any source of sugar would do and so will try Treacle, of course no cake would be much good without flour(plane) so I got some of that as well.
Any Input on sand core recipes would be very helpful guys.
Pete


----------



## aarggh

Is it a coincidence the engine is starting to look like Wall-E?  On a more serious note, this is way beyond my skills but i'm still loving this thread!

cheers, Ian


----------



## Gazzaleach

Hello Pete,
                 Have you seen the you tube videos by myfordboy he does some great videos on casting also various ways of making cores using house hold ingredients and co2.

Cheers Gaz


----------



## metalmad

Hi Ian
Now that you mention it she does look a little extreme at the moment but I think once the Ram is cast its look will be a lot different.
Her "Eyes" are to make a negative locating space in the mold for the core and will vanish once cast.
Hi Gaz
Yes Myfordboy is a legend and im slowly working my way though his Videos 
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Thanks Danny
> Its nice to know there is interest in the build
> I went shopping today for core materials but was unable to get any Molasses, I reasoned any source of sugar would do and so will try Treacle, of course no cake would be much good without flour(plane) so I got some of that as well.
> Any Input on sand core recipes would be very helpful guys.
> Pete


 Man this looks awsome you should put a picture of Don Prudhome beside it


----------



## metalmad

I'm not sure what "the Snake"would make of it buddy, If I achieve 10 mousepower I will be ecstatic 
I had a bit of a bash at core making today but after gluing on the front cores and drilling a small hole though the guts for steam release I realized its not cooked inside so Ive put it back in the oven for an hour on 100 degrees.
If all goes well I might do a pour tomorrow.
Pete


----------



## Rivergypsy

I like it! - one of these days I'm going to have to learn this art...


----------



## metalmad

Hi dclark
 glad you like it Mate 
Give it a go, casting up your own engine blocks gives you lots of options. 
I poured the Ram today and I think it will clean up real nice, the Tappet cover pattern would not release from the mold and was not poured.
I'm pretty happy with how it came out and am wondering now why I was so worried about cores in the first place.
would have saved myself heaps of work on the block and blower.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Man this is awsome work Pete   Thm:


----------



## Lakc

Looks good. What did you wind up using for a core sand recipie?


----------



## petertha

Awesome work. Can you elaborate on your game plan for making the blower rotor? I dont know much about the subject but seems like a lot of them are very funky shape that would require cnc? The roots looks easier, but I have no idea if they scale or what sort of precision is required. Ive seen (external) pictures of v8's like Conley, but never really seen what the guts look like.

**edit** oops, I did did a pic of the Conley internals. Looks kind of like roots shape?
http://www.jeperformance.biz/BlowerDesign.htm


----------



## metalmad

Heres some pics for you Luc Thm:
Hi Lakc
I used 
1 tablespoon plane flour
1 tablespoon Treacle
10 tablespoons sand
I mixed it very well and added water although Ive since been told its best to add the treacle to the water and then mix, whatever method is used it has to be cooked all the way through and steam vents should be added into the core as well.
Hi Petertha
This Build has always been primarily a tool to learn basic casting. I chose a supercharged V8 simply because they excite me.
The plans are however not much good and I very much doubt if a working motor has ever been built from them.
The rotors are similar to Conley but rather then relying on super tight tolerances, have a seal on the end of the rotor Peanut.
I don't know for sure the blower will work but I don't know it wont either.
Today I bored the Ram to suit the stacks and cleaned it up a little more.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Pete , did you purchace the plans somewhere
what brand of carb are those??


----------



## Lakc

Thanks, seemed to work out good for you!


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
I was sent the plans by another aussie member who got them on ebay. The carbs are walbro but I don't know what off , unfortunately one of them is not complete.:wall:
If your up for a laugh send me your Email.
Hi Lakc
I have heard of plaster of Paris being used or even auto body filler, but I thought body filler would be very hard to get out, what I used was very easily removed, next time I will try without the flour and see how we go as my core did rise a little.
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

Watch out Pete I put a curse from the wicked west on those plans, the shop gnomes will come out at night and change the measurements on you. Rof}Rof}Rof}


----------



## ausdier

Something like this.Thm:


----------



## metalmad

Hi Baz
I reckon the shop gnomes had a field day with this plan set :fan:
I poured both tappet covers today and it looks fantastic with the covers sitting on the motor.
Hi Ausdier
Thats the one Buddy!!
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi guys
I hogged out the covers to .600 today and cleaned em up a little, I'm thinking about adding fins to the covers and maybe to the blower gear cover.
I'm thinking the blower spigot needs to be on the left with a clockwise Engine rotation, any body know for sure?
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

metalmad said:


> Hi guys
> I hogged out the covers to .600 today and cleaned em up a little, I'm thinking about adding fins to the covers and maybe to the blower gear cover.
> I'm thinking the blower spigot needs to be on the left with a clockwise Engine rotation, any body know for sure?
> Pete




It needs to be on the right. You want the outside of the rotors to go down and be moving up where they meet in the center. with the engine rotating clockwise you will need the spigot on the right to get the correct rotor rotation.


----------



## stevehuckss396

You can see from this picture that the rotor on the right is the one that needs to rotate clockwise.


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Steve
I would have sworn it would go down the guts :hDe:
I'll put it back the way I had it.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

I put up the gearcover in the 4 jaw today and took a couple cuts of the top and yes I put it back on the right way! ;D
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

Looking good Pete, still following along, 
bit of a spinout in regards to the way the air flows through the supercharger hey,
I always thought the air flow went straight through the center as well.

 Steve Thanks for the info, you have set more than 1 person straight, i am still dreaming about the engine pictures you posted on this thread.

Pete do you have a secret recipe for the sand cores you made ??  :shrug:

Baz.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Baz
I posted what I used the other day, post 224 I think but I want to try it without the flour next time as it raised a little on cooking and I cleaned it up on the linisher. Im hoping it will be more stable without the flour.
Have you tried a core yet?
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

Oh yeh! I found the recipe, thanks.

No I haven't tried casting with cores yet but am very keen to give it a go, looks interesting and also a great way to cut down on material and machining time.

Have been contemplating on casting my engine block with cores fitted for the bores.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete
 I really like the way it's coming 
do you still have allot of casting to do are if your going to
start machining soon??


----------



## metalmad

Yeh Baz
I should have used cores in my block too but it took me a while to get up the guts to try it.:hDe:
Hi Luc
I just do what I feel like on a given day, Ive been working myself up to doing the combustion chambers tomorrow but im a little scared of the work holding involved.
I think I can, I think I can, I think I can :fan:


----------



## canadianhorsepower

> I think I can, I think I can, I think I can :fan:


 
I know you can:bow:  i know you can:bow: I know you can:bow:


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
Looks like I got lucky with the chambers as both heads are roughed out but so far Ive only drilled one for valve cages.
I wanted to retain the round shape of the chamber so decided to plunge cut and dremal the center then repeat etc
perhaps not the best way of doing it but I used what I had.
I counter bored a couple of the push rod holes for hold down bolts and it worked well.

Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hey these look great. what size valve are you using?


----------



## Lakc

Looking good!
You might want to consider adding a blow off plate to that intake manifold. Compressed air and fuel will want someplace to go if there is a backfire, and you dont want it driving your blower through the roof.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Pete---Looking really good!!! There is a great deal to be said in favour of "Using what you have."---Brian


----------



## metalmad

The sheets call for a two piece valve Luc
The shank is 1/8 and the head .400 but I plan to make them from the solid rather then two piece.
Hi Lakc
I guess thats not a bad idea, would there be any benefit in directing the blow off valve into the Ram do you think?
Hi Brian
yes definitely
all my Engines are built with what I have out of what I can get :hDe:
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Today I drilled the exhaust and spark plug holes but have not done the exhaust manifold bolt holes yet as they seem to be a on a different angle on the sheets, think i'll sleep on it 
Pete


----------



## madaussie

any thoughts of nitrous injection?


----------



## metalmad

Nitrous ;D;D;D
not this time Mate
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Today I drilled the exhaust and spark plug holes but have not done the exhaust manifold bolt holes yet as they seem to be a on a different angle on the sheets, think i'll sleep on it
> Pete


  Thats really nice Pete are these plug home made???
are you going to work these ports with a dremel are if they are staying round


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
Yes Those are my own plugs from another one of my Engines, I use 1/4 -32 for the threads.
I will leave the exhaust ports round but will dremal the intakes where they siamese together.
Today I drilled the exhaust manifold bolts holes but the shed gremlins seem to be using my 6-32 Tap.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

> shed gremlins seem to be using my 6-32 Tap


 
very nice plugs.......... and al the rest 
are you building your own stellite seat also?
really enjoying this post
thanks


----------



## canadianhorsepower

> but the shed gremlins seem to be using my 6-32 Tap


 
that gremlin has a big family there is one in my shop also,
but he's using other tools but that tapRof}Rof}


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
What's a "stellite seat"?


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Hi Luc
> What's a "stellite seat"?


 
it's a verry hard stel that resist to heat verry well
we usualy use this material for valve seat on propane engine:fan:


----------



## ShedBoy

I don't want to get off subject here too much but what about bronze for seats? I have seen bronze skulls used in top fuel bikes but they replace the whole chamber.

Pete the engine looks great, might have a go at half of it once you find all the problems with the plans, There seems to be a few.
 Brock


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
The plans call for a bronze cage but im thinking of making them from cast iron although im not sure how well this would seal, just an idea at this stage.
Hi Brock
cool idea, are you going to go the casting route?
Pete


----------



## metalmad

started playing around with the pipe shape this afternoon.
But im thinking my little bender is just not up to it.
Pete


----------



## Lakc

metalmad said:


> Hi Lakc
> I guess thats not a bad idea, would there be any benefit in directing the blow off valve into the Ram do you think?


Probably not, just some way to prevent overpressure in event of a backfire from becoming a bomb. Probably much more useful in the starting and tuning phase, but its a possibility that can lead to more then just reworking a few parts if anyone gets hit by the fallout.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> started playing around with the pipe shape this afternoon.
> But im thinking my little bender is just not up to it.
> Pete


 
Looks nice... my opinion I would have them pointing down like a funny car. For 2 reasons 1 not to hide all the nice work of the motor and 2 the carb your using are very sensitive to sound wave and your exaust noise cout get them crasyth_wtf1


----------



## arborpress

canadianhorsepower said:


> Looks nice... my opinion I would have them pointing down like a funny car. For 2 reasons 1 not to hide all the nice work of the motor and 2 the carb your using are very sensitive to sound wave and your exaust noise cout get them crasyth_wtf1



Unfortionatly that puts the exhaust right where the spark plug leads will be...


----------



## canadianhorsepower

arborpress said:


> Unfortionatly that puts the exhaust right where the spark plug leads will be...


come on I'm pretty sure that Pete would send them forward 45 degree
to clear the plug and then down If he decide to do it:hDe:


----------



## metalmad

Hi Lakc
I agree completely and will put a blow of valve on the intake manifold, I have started reworking that pattern wider with a angled boss at the front to accept the water inlet anyway.
Hi Luc
My inspiration is more Dragster than funny car, I can almost see the Engine in my mind with the back swept pipes facing up.
Hi Arborpress
My thoughts as well Mate, as I have it, its well clear of the plugs and leads.


----------



## metalmad

Something like this is what im thinking about, but I think i'll sleep on it.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Something like this is what im thinking about, but I think i'll sleep on it.
> Pete


  Hey Pete I sure love the look
But before you elaborate more "more hours" get it running
those small carb are nasty to wave reflec
  I'm still in love:bow: with this project


----------



## metalmad

I used this opportunity to have a go at silver soldering.
It looks like it worked fine and was not nearly as hard to do as I thought!
Pete


----------



## arborpress

Looks very good. What kind of blowtorch is that?


----------



## rodw

arborpress said:


> Looks very good. What kind of blowtorch is that?



I was going to say great work too and that it is awesome to see an old school blowtorch in action. I have not seen one in use since I was a kid. Pretty sure they ran on Kerosene. Am I right? Dad had a blow torch and a lovely brass soldering iron. I am sure one ran on kero and the other on shellite. I think it was the more refined soldering iron that ran on shellite. The blow torch was a bit more brutal!


----------



## arborpress

Yeah, I asked because I have a gasoline blowtorch that I typically run with whitegas. Not sure what temperatures are needed for silver soldering though. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure what kind of temperatures my torch can get up to...


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
Yes Arborpress, Rod Is correct its an old kero blow torch, cheap to run and very hot.
The pump seal on mine is not the best but I feel I could use the torch as a blower for my foundry if the seal was changed.
I had a few drama's today with the top layer of the tappert covers, I think there was sand in the casting in places making slow work of it.
Pete


----------



## rodw

Pete, every day your progress leaves this noob absolutely speechless. I take it the seal on your blow torch you are having problems with is the bucket on the pressure pump? There was a time you could buy these anywhere from a hardware store but I bet they are hard to source today. Maybe you could grab some leather from a saddler and see if you could shape it while it was wet and let it dry.

I can vouch how hot these thing can get. 1600 degrees F comes to mind but it is a very old memory which could need recalibrating. We also had a flamethrower which was a bigger version of a blow torch with a 5 gallon kero tank and a head that was a good 4-6" in diameter. We used it for heating branding irons when branding calves and poked it into the end of a 5 gallon drum with the side cut out to keep the heat in. The irons glowed white hot and I think we melted one before Dad worked out how to turn it down to a more reasonable operating temp. In later years, we had a propane gas branding fire and it was nowhere near as exciting come branding time!


----------



## metalmad

Hi Rod
I had a break down on my grinder yesterday so I'm going to put the V8 aside for a couple of days till I'm back on track elsewhere.:fan:
Thanks for the support buddy it really is appreciated, do you still have the flamethrower in the Family?
Id love to source one as a furnace Blower ;D
Pete


----------



## rodw

metalmad said:


> Hi Rod
> I had a break down on my grinder yesterday so I'm going to put the V8 aside for a couple of days till I'm back on track elsewhere.:fan:
> Thanks for the support buddy it really is appreciated, do you still have the flamethrower in the Family?
> Id love to source one as a furnace Blower ;D
> Pete



Pete, sorry, my brother sold the family property last year after 85 years in the family. He had a big clearing sale so if it was still a goer it has definitely  gone. The other thing we used it for was fighting bush fires when burning back towards the fire front from a fire break. They fell out of favour for this and were generally replaced by a gadget that dripped flaming blobs of diesel on the ground which was a lot safer and lighter. They would be awesome for a furnace. We also had a forge with a cast iron blower but I only ever saw it used once. Then we ended up with another property which was once owned by a blacksmith. The forge for it was an old leather bellows style with a big bush timber lever to pull. I think we donated it to the local historical society. The anvil reached over $1k at the clearing sale. I am not sure of the weight of it as we had a couple. They used to be sold by the hundredweight! How many pounds was that?). 

You might find a flame thrower at a pastoral supply place or of course at a rural clearing sale. They are probably not hard to make. The feed pipe came out of the bottom of the tank and went to the front of the nozzle and coiled back to the back where it did a U turn into the centre of the coil and  there was a jet on the end of the pipe. There was a hand pump, a pressure gauge and a pressure relief valve on the tank and a windshield around the coil. We used to stuff a kero soaked rag in the windshield to heat up the kero and you could keep the rag wet until the kero in the coil vaporised, same as your blowtorch. The coil might have been 8" long and had a wind shield wrapped around it with a few vents at the back for air to get in. I can't remember if there was one or two layers in the coil. The back was open.

Geez, here is one here exactly like we had. Can't believe how well I remembered it! 






http://www.scammellauctions.com.au/catalogue/index.php/page/shop/flypage/product_id/101824/category_id/23b1f78aa252ff052ce31097e3ec0649/offset/250/archive/1?ps_session=d50d91d6437c53589589130d9fa2a35a

Anyway googling Rega Flamethrower might unearth some stuff on them.


----------



## metalmad

That thing looks really deadly 
That auction is in South Australia right?
I will look into making one, I like the idea of the pressure tank!
Thanks Mate


----------



## rodw

metalmad said:


> That thing looks really deadly



Yesh, I agree, must be why I remember it so vividly!  



metalmad said:


> That auction is in South Australia right?
> I will look into making one, I like the idea of the pressure tank!
> Thanks Mate



Check the auction details I thought it was old, back in 2011.

I reckon you could make it on your ear Pete! The coil does not extend back into the vented area, Pretty sure it was only one layer for the coil, you could probably get away with a gas BBQ jet from BBQ's Galore. You can see all of the features on the tank I described.


----------



## ausdier

This is Metalmad here just using Ausdier's computer at the moment as I am having some internet problems. :wall:
New work done are the intake ports are done.
Tappet covers a bit more but no photos 
Drilled and tapped the holes for the rockers pivot bar pedestals.
Received a wonderful present from Steve Huck :bow: yesterday.
He offered to cnc some distributor caps for me and they look..............fan-friggin-tastic, thanks Steve for the artwork.
Pete.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Wow Pete this is really coming along good thanks for the pictures


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Luc
I got in a couple of hours today, milling the tappet cover recess on the heads and matching covers.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

HO HO listen!!! I can ??? yes I do  their is a small rumbling sound on the pictures

OH man I was dreaming and heard your engine running, well I will see it soon
keep up the good work


----------



## metalmad

On a really good day I can hear it too Luc 
Pete


----------



## dsage

Metalmad:

Not sure how I missed this whole thread but I've been looking through it with great interest. Fantastic work !!!

I'm interested in your pistons. I've done a bit of casting myself and although you have apparently used aluminum previously from pistons I'm wondering if you shouldn't revert to billet 2024 or other suitable billet material. Once you melt the aluminum you may not have the same alloy as some components may burn off. But what's more important is you have lost all of the heat treatment of the alloy. You might have noticed that the castings are quite soft. For a piston this may be a problem. I would not consider casting rods because you WILL require the stiffness of of a properly heat treated material.
T6511 or T4xx etc.

I just thought I'd throw that out for comments from others before you get too far on the heavily stressed components.
Not sure what your plans were.

Sage


----------



## metalmad

HI Sage
One of the nice things about a permanent mold is the alli freezes almost instantly and can be poured again as soon as it is striped and your left with a nice hard piston with ready made internals.
Unfortunately I had used what piston stock I had before I thought of making my own pistons out of them. The inlet manifold I made out of the pistons is lovely and hard by the way :hDe:
Pete


----------



## dsage

Hi Pete:

No need to hide under the chair. 
I would highly recommend billet for your rods at least. There's a lot of stress going on there. I have a model here with the results of a rod through both sides of the block.
Several articles were written about the "Olympus engine" in Model Engineer magazine.
I'm the custodian of it since Albert Hutton passed away.
It's worth a look at it running. Click on "watch the engine run..." below the big pictures in the link below. It may take a while to load. Very impressive - and scary actually. 
It's idles (poorly) at 8,ooo rpm and goes up from there in a blink.

http://davesage.ca/engine4.html

A rod blew out of it at 23,000 rpm when it was producing about 5hp.

Nice work on your engine.
 I'll be watching with great interest.

Sage


----------



## trumpy81

dsage said:


> Hi Pete:
> 
> No need to hide under the chair.
> I would highly recommend billet for your rods at least. There's a lot of stress going on there. I have a model here with the results of a rod through both sides of the block.
> Several articles were written about the "Olympus engine" in Model Engineer magazine.
> I'm the custodian of it since Albert Hutton passed away.
> It's worth a look at it running. Click on "watch the engine run..." below the big pictures in the link below. It may take a while to load. Very impressive - and scary actually.
> It's idles (poorly) at 8,ooo rpm and goes up from there in a blink.
> 
> http://davesage.ca/engine4.html
> 
> A rod blew out of it at 23,000 rpm when it was producing about 5hp.
> 
> Nice work on your engine.
> I'll be watching with great interest.
> 
> Sage



Sage are there any plans/drawings available for the Olympus?


----------



## dsage

Sorry to say, no.
Albert built it all from hand sketches. He handed over some of his rough information years ago to someone in England who did make castings and drawings with the intent of selling them. There turned out to be problems with the molds. Something about making them the wrong size to allow for proper shrinkage. I think that ended the endeavor. The guy that was doing them was quite elderly and could not continue. Those plans etc. were for the 2-valve per cylinder version. Albert updated it later to 4-valves per cylinder.
Since I've had it, Mike Rehmus (Model Engine Builder) was after me to take it apart and model the whole thing. I won't do that, and the owner - Albert's Daughter would not allow it either. (I just fixed it up for her so she could hand it down to her son - someday. I've had it for a few years now). It would probably never run again. It is unbelievably complex. Just the miniature Weber DCOE carburetors are watch works. I've had them apart but I still have problems with them overflowing. You can see gas dripping from one of them in the video. It's either that or they don't get enough fuel to feed the VERY hungry beast.
 Most of what you see in the video is the dyno (electric). The engine is dwarfed by the rest of  the setup. He was able to get a proven 6hp from it at 23,000 rpm. Amazing for a 4-stroke overhead cam 4-valve per cylinder engine. As mentioned, somewhere along the way he accidently over-revved it and threw a rod through both sides of the block. it surprisingly didn't damage anything else. He fixed it and later set that record performance. All of this and more was written up in both Strictly IC and Model Engineer. Excellent reading if you want to see what it takes to make a truly high performance model.

Sorry, I digress from the thread.

We haven't heard from Pete in a while.

Enjoy.


Sage
http://davesage.ca


----------



## metalmad

I started on the valve cages today, $25 bucks a stick for the bronze and I need two :wall:
The price of bronze is just silly!!
Pete


----------



## Motormagican

Hello Pete, sure like the progress you are making. It all is great craftsmanship. Great looking parts.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Danny, Sorry about taking so long to reply but just was not feeling up to it 
I started on the Crank yesterday but as usual the plan set was all over the place, the mains for instance given as 3/8 on one sheet and half inch on another.:wall:
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

hope you feel better nice to see some picsThm:


----------



## metalmad

Hi Thanks for the well wishes Luc ;D
Ive roughed out the mains now 20 thou over.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

I just could not resist making sure it fits ;D
Pete


----------



## metalmad

After a whole lot of soul searching ive taken the mains out to half inch, that will make the webs .250 and outerwebs .375. Today I took the first journal down to about 30 thou over.
Feeling the Stress guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

It's comming along good  Thm:
how long is your crank shaft?


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
so far Im planing on about 300 mm but I may shorten that down the track a bit.
Pete


----------



## Motormagican

Good Day Pete, sure looks like you have your work cou out. Looks like you solved the crankshaft plan issue. Looking real good. Take care, Danny


----------



## jwcnc1911

Is that a clausing 1300 or 1301 lathe?  Nive work by the way!


----------



## metalmad

Hi Danny, Ive finish turned the first journal now and hope to start on the next tomorrow arvo 
Hi Jw
The only marking on my old girl is model 17-DF made in 1990, somebody said they thought it was korean but I dont know a lot about it Im afraid. Ive never been able to find a web site for it unfortunetly
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete, what's the specs of that lathe I think I have a link
for it The white base and blue stripe look familiar


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
I was able to make a copy of a small manual for the 
SSB-17DA-F which I think is for my lathe and it says the distance between centers is 40" with a swing over bed of 14".
I did a little more on the crank today and hope to get the big ends done this week. Then Ill rest the Crank for a week before taking the mains down to depth.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi guys
A little more work on the big ends and im almost ready to move over to the mill.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Im hoping to get the webs milled tomorrow then i'll rest the crank for a few days before taking the main journals down to size  ETC ETC.
Pete
PS
Here is a pic I forgot of the center hole setup, sorry guys
Notice the flat side of the bar that is clamped to the angle plate in order to get the holes all the same.
This length of Bar stock is almost 13 inches long and I used a machinist square to line it up before clamping and then used a wobbler to find the bar center.


----------



## metalmad

still working away at the webs, still got a lot of metal to move.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete,
             comming along niceThm:

the thing with crankshaft, once your done, you have created 
more chips then the actual part itself

with all the great casting your making, why didn't you cast
your crank


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
Casting iron is another whole ball game buddy, My pot is made of an old bit of pipe with a bottom welded on, it would melt if I ever got it that hot!! :fan:
Im putting the crank aside to rest untill after ive done the flywheel and then I'll take the mains down.
I finished the Big ends 5 thou over in case I need to touch them up but i'll have a good look in a few days.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
Ive taken the mains down to size now and as Im not ready to install the end bearings yet made up a pair of alli standins.
After working out where I need the keyway to be Ive set up in the mill ready to slot it.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

After milling the keyways and pressing on the end bearings I started work on a flywheel collet.
There will be a twenty TPI left hand thread on the end and four slots in the ten degree inclusive taper .
This photo really shows up the old girl at its worst as a previous owner has welded bits to the Chuck 
Pete


----------



## metalmad

had a go at the left hand thread today, twenty TPI on a .875 blank and parted off but ran into problems with the nut, just as I was coming to size my old lathe dropped the half nuts out. 
I will try to chase it tomorrow but I might have to start the nut again:wall:
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

thanks for all the posting look's good Thm:


----------



## metalmad

Thanks for the surport Luc, No Worries Mate.
I was able to chase the thread today and finish the nut, Once the the thread was done I used it to face the back of the Collet.
Pete


----------



## Dr Jo

Looking very good Pete.

Jo


----------



## metalmad

Thanks Jo 
I took down that old bit of stock I scored for the flywheel to 4 inchs while I work out what its going to look like.
Looks like its been flame cut and stuffed an insert before I got under the skin :fan:
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete, 
interesting to watch, I would like to see a picture with all the parts side by side
like a display. I've been checking your post everyday but seing a picture
of all the parts would be nice
keep the chips flying

Luc


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
This Flywheel will be very interesting I think, it will have a 1.5 inch wide and .250 deep boss at the front that will have 4 ramps milled in it for .125 dia rollers.
The Starter will push the rollers up the ramps and lock the starter gear to the flywheel. once the Engine starts, the rollers will deramp and let the gear freewheel.
ummmmmmm I hope :fan:
I plan to attempt to harden the unknown stock in my furnace  but if it wont harden I might go to a bolt on hard ramp section.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc The next time I have everything apart I'll take a pic!
Today I put the 4 jaw in and reversed the flywheel turning the taper the other side and taper.
After that was done I setup the thrust washer in the mill and made it suit the two bearings im using on the flywheel end.
Pete


----------



## davewaldo

It's all looking great Pete!


----------



## metalmad

Hi Dave 
Thanks Buddy 
Have you tried out the milling attachment yet 
Pete


----------



## davewaldo

That pic shows its really coming together! 

I'm struggling to find a satisfactory way to mount the milling attachment. My problem is that if I simply mount it where the toolpost goes my cross slide does not have enough travel to allow milling from one side of the attachment to the other. So I would t even be able to mill a simple channel. So I'm planning to build an adapter plate to shift the mounting location more central. 

I'm enjoying this build thread, thanks for taking the time to post so many photos. 

Dave.


----------



## rcfreak177

Looking good Pete.

Can't wait to hear this thing running.

The crank poses a bit of a challenge hey, the one you made came out looking good.

When I pulled the pin on this engine I mounted a crank and a cam on a stand then gave them to my old man for a present.

He sits on his chair and just looks at them sitting in the china cabinet in his dining room reminiscing. 

The old boy is a severe petrol head from the olden days
 (as my son says)
Always chatting about the Ford flathead V8 days and his old BSA 500 single converted to dirt bike.

Keep up the good work mate.

Cheers,
Baz.


----------



## metalmad

Does your Compound have slots Dave?
either way if I can be of any help , give me a Yell!
Hi Baz
Did you use the Sheet specs for the Cam Mate ?
Im tossing up building a Cam grinder and grinding all my future ones.
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

Pete 
come on, the second one is a trick picture dont trell me you were using 2 way face take to hold your 
timing cover to your mill tableRof}Rof}


----------



## rcfreak177

Hi Baz
Did you use the Sheet specs for the Cam Mate ?
Im tossing up building a Cam grinder and grinding all my future ones.
Pete

G'day Pete,

I used this cam calculator for the indexing.
basically input the data from the spec sheet in the plans.

http://modelenginenews.org/design/CamTable.html

I then used my cnc mill and rotary indexer for the cuts, finished with blending with a file and emery cloth.

The crank was done by the same process you posted.


----------



## metalmad

canadianhorsepower said:


> Pete
> come on, the second one is a trick picture dont trell me you were using 2 way face take to hold your
> timing cover to your mill tableRof}Rof}


No Tricks Luc scratch.gif
I clamped one end and did the holes one end , then clamped the other end, took off the first clamp and did the holes on the other end.
I took off the second Clamp so you could see my lovely casting :big:
Pete


----------



## metalmad

hogging out the gear cover, good to see how nice the casting is 
Pete


----------



## canadianhorsepower

hey Pete 
everytime I look at your molding product I'm flored.
How long have you been doing this

cheers


----------



## metalmad

Hi Luc
This is my first Casting project buddy and the main point of the build is simply to learn a few basic casting tricks so that I will be able to cast up my own Engines in the future.
I have no plans to try cast iron but have proved to myself I can do simple patterns in both alli and Brass.
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Ive drilled and tapped all the holes for the cover now except the bottom two which I will do later with a sump gasket installed.
Pete


----------



## Motormagican

Hello there Pete, it sure is looking good. Will keep following your build and hope to hear it run. 

Take care and happy machining


----------



## metalmad

Hi Danny
Give me 6 months and I think she will be close ;D
There is still a whole lot to do, including a Cam grinding machine to build before then.
Hay Baz I made up some cores for a redisigned Blower today but did not use flour.
Last time I had problems with the core raising and spliting like a cake but this time I added the treacle to the water and mixed that with the sand and then cooked at 250 degrees C untill brown.
Much better;D 
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

metalmad said:


> Hay Baz I made up some cores for a redesigned Blower today but did not use flour.
> Last time I had problems with the core raising and splitting like a cake but this time I added the treacle to the water and mixed that with the sand and then cooked at 250 degrees C until brown.
> Much better;D
> Pete



G'day Pete,

I Reckon the cores would have smelt good, did ya whack on a batch of scones as well
I still have to get around to casting with cores, as soon as my mill is up and running again I will be going hammer and thongs at it, will have a go then.

Went to the old boys place today, here is a couple of pics of one of the cams I made for the same engine you are building.













I cheated, all done by cnc, did use the indexing chart generated by the cam calculator though, 1 degree increments then finish by hand.

Baz.


----------



## dsage

Hi Baz:

Just for interest sake, what numbers did you enter into CamCalc (I assume that's what you used as your cam calculator).
Cam looks good.

Sage


----------



## rcfreak177

Hi Sage,

The figures i used are as follows,

*Base circle radius,*    0.375"
*Valve lift,*                0.105"
*Cam action angle,*     156 degrees
*Flank radius,*             0.93"
*Table row increment,*  1 degree
*Engine speed,*           6500 rpm

Pete where are you, we are missing your progress.

Cheers,
Baz


----------



## metalmad

Hi Baz
Im not far away Mate but I slow down to a crawl when it gets cold at night!
Cam looks great Buddy, Its one thing Im not looking forward to :hDe:
Pete


----------



## rcfreak177

G'day Pete,

Yeah I hear ya,

Getting pretty cold here in Perth at night now.

I go back to work in the morning, had 1 month off coz the missus and I had a new addition to the family (band new baby girl 1 week ago)
36 years old with a newborn ???        :hDe:    ;D   Thats the process I went through.
Back to the Pilbara for 8 days, we get mid 30's in winter there.

The cam is not to bad to make, very time consuming but is a buzz to look at when finished.
Steve Huck has a great tutorial for the whole process, *(Onya Steve, love your work)*

Here is the link for the tutorial.

http://www.mikes-models.com/camarticle.html

Cheers,
Baz.


----------



## dsage

rcfreak177 said:


> Hi Sage,
> 
> The figures i used are as follows,
> 
> *Base circle radius,*    0.375"
> *Valve lift,*                0.105"
> *Cam action angle,*     156 degrees
> *Flank radius,*             0.93"
> *Table row increment,*  1 degree
> *Engine speed,*           6500 rpm
> 
> Pete where are you, we are missing your progress.
> 
> Cheers,
> Baz




Hi Baz:

Not sure what you have for the other cam (exhaust or intake) or for the lobe center angle but the engine's going to sound pretty good with that cam. The ever famous Duntov 30-30 cam which is very lumpy only has approx 290deg crank duration and you're pushing 312deg. How much overlap or what lobe center angle and other specs have you planned on?


Sage


----------



## metalmad

Hi Baz
Congratulations on the little one 
I notice you have redesigned the Cam with much wider cam lobes and no center bearing, did you use the 110 degree lobe separation?
I must admit to not even looking at the sheet until your post, Its just too scary 
Today I decided to put some flats on the flywheel as Ive found I have trouble undoing the collet nut holding the flywheel by hand.
The other day I changed the "B series" belt on my lathe and noticed the finish is not as good when I took a cut of the front of the flywheel.
I'm wondering if the belt is on the tight side and will loosen it off before using it again or maybe ive just done a tip.
I have also done a lot of work on the gear cover but have been plagued with a couple of minor flaws so it looks like I need to get out the files again.
I'm really over this gear cover I tell you!!
Pete


----------



## metalmad

Hi Guys
I hit a problem with working out my firing order to cut my cam, and finally found I had installed the Crank backwards :noidea:
I was able to press off the second bearing at the rear but will have to redo my front keyways :shrug:
My firing order will be 18724365 as I just can not see how the sheet specs would work at all.
I turned my blank to a snug fit in the block for the center bearings and will start preparing the blank this week, the outer bearings will be bronze.
Steve Hucks formula for the turning offset is. 
flank angle-(base circle/2)
.696-(.375/2)
.696(.1875)
.5085 turning off set
I used the little Demon flank angle as I really can not make heads nor tails of what the sheet says.
Now a question for the guys!
I looked up some cam specs on the net and if I cut my lobe flanks like this with 110 between lobes centers will it be OK??????????????? 
IVO-9 degrees BTDC
IVC-41 degress ABDC
EVO-47 degrees BBDC
EVC-3 degrees ATDC
(IVO is inlet valve open)
(EVO is exhaust valve open)
I cut the high tensile blank to a snug fit in the block today and will continue this week.
Am a little worried about a interupted cut in such a hard material but will see how I go.
Pete


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Pete,
Whenever someone builds an I.C. engine they make a cam to the specs that are published or when scratch building to what they think will work. When they get the engine running they, including myself, are so thrilled with the engine that they stop there. By that I'm saying  I don't know of anyone who says, "gee, the engine runs good but I wonder how it would run if I made another cam to somewhat different specs." And so forth and so on if you get my drift. It takes a lot of time and concentration to make a cam and I don't know anyone that wants to make 2 or 3 or 4 of the things. If a person gets his engine running and it has some problems, starting, idle, throttling etc, does he ever say, "well maybe it's my camshaft." I never have!
Cam numbers are just that, numbers, without accompanying numbers for compression ratio, operating rpm, head flow etc that's all they are. In the full sized world of cams all these specs need to be used to determine the best cam for the job. 
I have always machined symmetrical cams, not for any particular reason but just because. 
Another set of factors that need to be considered are what type of cam you're going to use, for flat tappets or roller lifters. This will determine the the tangent points of the cam shape. As with all cam numbers there is no magic number for lobe separation angles. The number 110 is thrown around but here again this is determined by other factors. 
The bottom line is I wouldn't be too concerned with what the cam is or isn't going to do, just make something reasonable and the engine will work.


----------



## johnny1320

metalmad said:


> Hi Guys
> I hit a problem with working out my firing order to cut my cam, and finally found I had installed the Crank backwards :noidea:
> I was able to press off the second bearing at the rear but will have to redo my front keyways :shrug:
> My firing order will be 18724365 as I just can not see how the sheet specs would work at all.
> I turned my blank to a snug fit in the block for the center bearings and will start preparing the blank this week, the outer bearings will be bronze.
> Steve Hucks formula for the turning offset is.
> flank angle-(base circle/2)
> .696-(.375/2)
> .696(.1875)
> .5085 turning off set
> I used the little Demon flank angle as I really can not make heads nor tails of what the sheet says.
> Now a question for the guys!
> I looked up some cam specs on the net and if I cut my lobe flanks like this with 110 between lobes centers will it be OK???????????????
> IVO-9 degrees BTDC
> IVC-41 degress ABDC
> EVO-47 degrees BBDC
> EVC-3 degrees ABDC
> (IVO is inlet valve open)
> (EVO is exhaust valve open)
> I cut the high tensile blank to a snug fit in the block today and will continue this week.
> Am a little worried about a interupted cut in such a hard material but will see how I go.
> Pete


 
Hi Pete, you wrote that your cam timing is 18724365, GM LS v8 engines are 18726543 is this maybe the reason for the confusion? also how are you numbering the cylinders? standard gm 1357 on the right 2468 on the left looking at the front? Great build by the way, I like the castings
John


----------



## stevehuckss396

johnny1320 said:


> Hi Pete, you wrote that your cam timing is 18724365, GM LS v8 engines are 18726543 is this maybe the reason for the confusion? also how are you numbering the cylinders? standard gm 1357 on the right 2468 on the left looking at the front? Great build by the way, I like the castings
> John




The numbering is wierd. Pete has made many references to the drawings being strange. There are 2 different firing orders in the drawings. The one shown by pete and on the cam sheet the standard Chevy order. Also on a chevy, the driver/left side is the cylinder closest too the front of the engine and numbered one. On this model the front cylinder is on the right is forward but still numbered #2. It is weird but not a big problem it you keep your head in the game.


----------



## johnny1320

stevehuckss396 said:


> The numbering is wierd. Pete has made many references to the drawings being strange. There are 2 different firing orders in the drawings. The one shown by pete and on the cam sheet the standard Chevy order. Also on a chevy, the driver/left side is the cylinder closest too the front of the engine and numbered one. On this model the front cylinder is on the right is forward but still numbered #2. It is weird but not a big problem it you keep your head in the game.


 
Yes you sure are right Steve, can get confusing for sure. On another note when are you going to make the rotors for the blower? that's an awesome build

John


----------



## metalmad

Hi George
At this point in time something reasonable that works will be just fine, the plans are very confusing and changes are needed to almost every part.
As you know when you change one thing it often snowballs :fan:
Hi Johnny
Thanks Mate
Im using the standard GM cyl numbers, the firing order on the plans is 16327458 and does not seem to work with the crank but both the standard chevy firing orders 18436572 and the one you quoted 18726543 seem OK
By the way you quoted me before I got my editing done and EVC should be after top dead center not ABDC.
I tell you Steve this thing is confusing the heck out of me, Cyl number two is on the left from the front but as you say it is forward on this Engine.
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

johnny1320 said:


> On another note when are you going to make the rotors for the blower? that's an awesome build
> 
> John




Soon. Last week i designed a fixture and wrote some code for the cnc mill.


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## Terryt

Hi:

This is a great project. What are you planning on doing with it?

I am and I am sure others are looking forward to following this great project.

Thanks,

Terryt


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## metalmad

Hi Terry
Thank you very much for that, and as far as "what I will be doing with it ?"
Historicaly once ive got a motor running I just put it in the display case and start something else :hDe:
Occasionaly I pull one out to tweek something but I seem to lose a lot of interest once its running scratch.gif
Pete


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## metalmad

Hi Guys
Ive started line boring the Cam tunnel now.
Its about .740 now and I hope to get it finished tomorrow.
Pete


----------



## BentRods

Pardon my inexperience, but can you explain a little more about the line boring setup you have there?


----------



## metalmad

Hi Bent Rods
I'll try to explane a little of what ive done for you.
After taking off the Compound, I put my height gauge on the cross slide to find the exact center hight, this was taken from a dead center in the head stock.
I then subtracted the center hight from the sump to the Cam tunnel hight, this gave me the packing height. This I made up from some alli blocks using my height gauge, I was lucky and only needed one shim.
I then set a mic with a magnetic base to set the block true on my datum, once that was done a wobbler was used to center the dead center with the center hole in the old Cam blank inserted in the Cam tunnel.
The Boring bar I made out of a bar taken from an old printer, I cross drilled 1/8 and ground up a cutter from a broken drill bit. I held this with a 3 mm set screw.
remember when you set your cutter, it will be upside down if your turning Anticlockwise.
Easy as that.
Drilling a hole can not compare with line boring for accuracy! 
But Take what I do with a grain of salt Mate, Im self taught and more often then not, am doing something for the first time myself ;D
Pete


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## ShedBoy

I have been following along in the background here Pete keeping quiet. Engine is looking great. It really is a big model isn't it?

Brock


----------



## metalmad

Hi Brock
Yes its huge but I really like the 1/3 scale V8's
can still be displayed but more than a toy!
Pete


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## moya034

I've belonged to some metal casting forums for a number of years. I've seen lots of people start with all kinds of first projects to learn the art and science of casting. Ash trays and simple household objects are the most common. I have never seen anyone start with such an ambitious project such as a model V8 engine! I admire your can-do attitude and tenacity.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of this thread!

As far as the line boring goes, being a machining newb, I'm having trouble picturing how the cut is being made. Is it possible to see a picture of the tool by itself without the work piece?


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## metalmad

Hi Moya
This build sort of chose itself 
I had just watched a utube clip on the supercharged Black widow and thought "I just wonder if I can cast up a block??????"
Well my first attempt was not usable but was close enougth to get me interested.
The next day I learnt from the mistakes made and had a block!
My first solo Casting.
After that it seemed natural to see if I could cast another bit and so on.
After a few weeks I had enougth parts to not seem silly and started my build log.
But I did have good reasons for calling it -"V8 MAYBE" ;D
I had never touched a lathe or mill before starting my first Engine and found the free plans on the internet for the "Webster". I then found this forum and the free kersel hit and miss plans, "the Sows Ear" was born, then the gearless "Rattler" and my first multy, ETW's classic twin the "Wallaby".
So you see every one of my Engines have been a learning exercise, but I must admit this one has forced me to grow the most.
Pete


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## BentRods

Ok, I think I almost get it. I assume the cutter is indexed with a micrometer then clamped using the set screw?


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## metalmad

Hi Bent rods
Yes thats basicaly all there is to it. The cutter spins in place and the block is slowly auto fed over it. 
I have decided to press bronze bush's in for the 3 central bearings and as I want to be able to take out the cam, have machined a counterbore to bolt in the front bush, the back bush will still be pressed in.
After making up a draw bar for the lathe, I fitted my boring head and did my counterbore and then set up between centers and machined the Cam blank to bearing size.
Pete


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## metalmad

I had to turf all the sheet figures and start again, bit stressful but the blank has been started.
Im wondering if I should leave the ends 3/8 until after the lobes are cut, will have another look at it after work tomorrow.
Pete


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## metalmad

Got a little more done on the Blank and fixture and am almost ready to cut the Cam.
I glued a degree wheel to a bit of tin and drilled 5/16 and then threaded the blank 5/16-24 on the lathe. Have not got a nut yet.
Pete


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## happykingkong

HI metalmad

 very nice!


Your engine do very good


I'm a bit worried,Such a large torque of the engine


No pressure casting   strength is enough?


I am a Chinese my English is very bad
:fan::fan:


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## metalmad

Hi Happy
You have seen the lovely quality of the metal in the castings, they will be fine.
My rear bulk head casting was not the best, but all that runs in that, is the distributor and will be bolted to a bell housing for support as well.
I really think that the castings are the least of the problems that must be faced before its done, will I be able to get the Walbo Carbys to work?, how can I sync them? will my Cam work?, will the Blower work or the Engine run at all? will it rain?
All questions that worry me, but the castings don't, at least not yet!:fan:
Cold Chamber pressure Casting is only for high volume work and yes it does give high tensile casting strength, but that is offset by my much thicker castings.
Other problems with cold chamber pressure casting are the dies need to be made of hardend tool steel and driven hydraulicaly.
I just dont need 15 casting cycles per Min 
Hot Chamber pressure casting is not really used with alli Im told, as the dies tend to disolve in the metal, This is more for zinc etc.
Pete


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## Brian Rupnow

Metalmad--You are doing great work, and I follow along faithfully. I too am astounded by the giant leap you have made, from a few small models to such an ambitious project. However, you seem to be chewing your way through it with great success. As far as casting aluminum with permanent molds---We did it all the time at Volkswagen of Canada, casting aluminum wheels for Volkswagens. The molds were made from H13 heat treated steel, and yes, erosion by the molten aluminum was a constant problem. That was a low pressure casting process. We also did a lot of high pressure casting of smaller aluminum pieces with high pressure multi cavity machines, and there too the molds washed out very quickly. Our annual budget for mold repair and maintenance ran into the millions of dollars.---Brian


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## Mknorr

I love how you just get in there and do it! I have procrastination down pat. Everything else is still in the planning stage


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## metalmad

Hi Brian
Thanks for following along and shearing the journey with me.
Im thinking of using a permant mold for the con rods, but have not come up with any pattern ideas yet.

Hi Mknorr
Im not so good on the planing Buddy, I just like to cut something :fan:
Pete


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## stevehuckss396

metalmad said:


> Hi Brian
> Thanks for following along and shearing the journey with me.
> Im thinking of using a permant mold for the con rods, but have not come up with any pattern ideas yet.
> 
> Hi Mknorr
> Im not so good on the planing Buddy, I just like to cut something :fan:
> Pete




You might want to make the rods from bar stock. You are going to need a good strong rod and with a casting you just never know.


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## metalmad

Hi Steve
as your the second person saying that, It may be a good idea to think about bar stock rods, I will chew it over 
I fitted up a pointer on my cam turning fixture today and am running out of reasons to not turn up the Cam.
Once I screw the degree wheel down I will start it this week.
Well Guys it seems, Im famous or maybe that should be imfamous
Here is a link to my Engine in Chinese!
I translated it and I am given the Credit and my watermarks are intact.
Happykingkongs bbs
http://www.zhizuo.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=211

Here is my fixture almost ready to use.


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete
 It's coming along good
thanks for the photo album


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## metalmad

I did 25 trial cuts on the first exhaust lobe today but will have to rethink my procedure a little bit. 
As I have it now the pointer will hit the pivot rod if I continue, I need to sleep on it :fan:
Pete


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## Lakc

I think that happens no matter what, push the pointer back through and use the reciprocal at the top of the degree wheel.


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## metalmad

Hi Jeff
Are you saying to drill a hole in the Camshaft for the pointer?
As I have it now its loctighted into a simple coller.
Pete


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## Lakc

No, push it through the collar and stick it out the other side, use 180 degree offset.


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## stevehuckss396

Lakc said:


> No, push it through the collar and stick it out the other side, use 180 degree offset.




Push it thru and then rotate the degree wheel 180 also so there will be no confusion.


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## Lakc

stevehuckss396 said:


> Push it thru and then rotate the degree wheel 180 also so there will be no confusion.


I guess thats what the other holes in the degree wheel are for?


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## metalmad

Ok Guys
Ausdier came to my rescure with a spread sheet thingy and I took 5 cuts today.
The plan so far is to start the cuts at 3 o'clock and cut to 9 o'clock, then move the pointer back 180 degrees and take the cut again.
If everything goes to plan, I only need to move the pointer once and not touch the degree wheel at all. 
I took 5 cuts today.
Pete


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## stevehuckss396

If you dont move the degree wheel things might get real confusing. If it is possible, take the time. If not be very careful.


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## metalmad

Hi Steve
Its all by the numbers from here as long as I dont do something silly.
Im about 1/3 of the way round now, but its bloody hard work.
Pete


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## metalmad

A milestone of sorts today. I'm at the halfway point and for the first time I have a lobe with both flanks so I can see what this thing is going to look like.
Pete


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## Lakc

The hard part with cams is not the machining, its avoiding getting lost in all those angles.


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## metalmad

Hi Jeff
I've simplified the process as much as I can and as long as I'm careful, I should be Ok.
Pete


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## Lakc

metalmad said:


> Hi Jeff
> I've simplified the process as much as I can and as long as I'm careful, I should be Ok.
> Pete


I usually walk around in a daze afterwards, mumbling to myself and drawing imaginary circles in the air.


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## Motormagican

Hello Pete,
 Even though I have not said much in a while. I see you are making good progress. I have never made an engine, other than the one that only looks and turns over like one. I think you are doing a great job and the cam is starting to look real good. Take care and I will keep watching your progress.


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## metalmad

I know what you mean Lakc, The spinning eccentric does my head in after a while ;D
Hi Danny
I should have it finished in the next day or two I guess, I'm well over half way and everything seems to be on track so far.
Pete


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## ShedBoy

Great work as always Pete. Still following along.

Brock


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## metalmad

Hi Brock
Im making progress now.
I still have to do a few things like clean up the sides of the lobes and file the end radius etc.
If you do build this Engine Buddy, the Cam will drive you Crazy 
Pete


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## rodw

Pete, awesome to see this coming together. I don't have the faintest idea about what you are doing but I am following along and I am still impressed! Maybe one day I might be game enough to have a go at an IC engine. I am watching Brian's new design closely!


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## metalmad

Hi Rod 
some Days I feel Im not sure what I'm doing either LOL
Brians new water cooled design looks great, I am a fan of that type of regulator for Hit n Miss Engines.


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## johnny1320

Camshaft is looking great! keep it up, I want to see the blower build


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## metalmad

Hi Johnny
I have been meaning to make a longer boring bar to use in the broring head for the Blower, thanks for reminding me 
Pete


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## browny289

Looks awesome mate following closely , are you going to line bore the blower 
similar to the main bearings?


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## metalmad

Hi Browny
So far Im planing to do it on the Mill with the DRO but that may change.
I want to make up the Boring Bar anyway so we will see.
Pete


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## Terryt

Hi:

Great project. 

Did you have a set of plans to work from?
I am wondering how you figured out the angles.
Did you have an original engine to work from?
Are you making an exact copy of the original?

I greatly appreciate any information you share with all of us.

Thanks,

Terry


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## metalmad

Hi Terry
The Plans were Rubbish and discarded almost from day one. They were used as a starting point only.
Here is a short quote from Steve Huck's Artical on cam turning on the Lathe and a link to find it.
Pete

"Knowing that there is 110 degrees of lobe separation, I put the first cut for intake #1, 110 degrees lagging its exhaust lobe.

The next cylinder in the firing order is #3 at 180 crank degrees lagging #1. That puts exhaust #3, 90 cam degrees behind exhaust #1 and intake #3 will be 200 cam degrees behind exhaust #1 or 110 behind exhaust #3."
http://www.mikes-models.com/camarticle.html


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## camm-1

Its a art the way you do it. Love that!
No cnc or grindingmachine just art


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## stevehuckss396

Hay!!

I haven't seen a post in a while, any progress? Hope all is well.


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## metalmad

Hi Steve and Camm1
Thanks for your concern Buddy, I have not been feeling to good for the last few weeks and have not been out to the shed since I made a new gib for the compound on the big Lathe.
After roughing it out I took it over to Ausdiers place and he put it up in his grinder on slips. Im very happy with it now or at least that bit, the rest of it is just as clapped out as ever 
now that both the Cam and Crank are done on the V8, the project is starting to take shape but I just dont feel up to it at the moment.
Pete


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## rodw

Peter, take care, many of us watch your progress, but you can only do what you can do. I don't know about the others around the globe, but I can wait patiently for the next Installment.


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## ozzie46

Same here. Take care 
.

  Ron


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## Brian Rupnow

Pete--I hope you are feeling better soon.---Brian in Canada


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## canadianhorsepower

Hey Pete
               Take care of yourself first is the good thing to do
and if you need strength don't drink milk look at the picture

cheers 

Luc


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## metalmad

Hi Guys
 Thanks for the well wishes, I am very Happy to have such friends.
I'm feeling a little better now and did some easy bits to get back into the flow.
I made up some simple stands first and then made up the sump plug.
I drilled and tapped both sump plug and dipstick hole for 5/16-40 but have not finished the dipstick itself yet.
Pete


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## Mechanicboy

Nice work!


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## metalmad

Thanks *Buddy*
*It truly is a massive project and Im not even sure im at the half way point yet.*
*Pete*


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## Mechanicboy

Yes.. true, patience wins over all obstacles and problems.


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete.
nice to see you feel better and back at it
don't over do it and get sick again:fan:

Man that sounds like your mother talking to youRof}Rof}Rof}


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## metalmad

Luc my friend
I will take your Vodka advice to heart at the slightest sign of future weakness ;D


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## metalmad

The three middle Cam bearings are installed, now the Block has to be drilled from the mains, though the Cam bearings into the oil hole that runs above the Cam.
This oil hole feeds both the Cam bearings and center mains.
Pete


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## Lakc

Its taking shape!


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## Rivergypsy

Nice work 

Just a thought, but while you're on the sump plug, why not set a little magnet into it to catch any particles in the oil?


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## kadett

Great job! Very particular about your project, I look forward to when you run it and show us all how good he growls at work. Good luck!


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## metalmad

Hi jeff
A mate of mine (Bezalel) came over yesterday Arvo and gave me some of the special ZA27 bearing material he makes up and brought around his Wallaby he has cast up from ZA27 for me to have a look at 
Naturaly I made up and fitted a main bearing for the Crank today, two more and the Cranks installed!! 
Thanks River gypsy, I will probably take your advice with the magnet once I find one of a suitable size.
Live long and prosper Kadett, Thanks for the support 
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

look s dam good Pete good work Thm:


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## Terryt

Hi:

Great Job.

Does anyone know where a person could get plans with dimensions for a Flathead V-8?

Thanks,

Terryt


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## gbritnell

I have drawn a flathead in 1/3 scale. The problem is trying to make it like a real Ford flathead engine. Without elaborate coring and casting there is no way to get the exhaust ports into the block. I wanted to see if I could make one from bar stock but I haven't come up with a design that will work. 
gbritnell


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## metalmad

thanks guys 
Wow George
I hope you build it!
It would really be something to see.
I know very little about Flatheads and I know you prefer to keep to the original as much as possable, but perhaps building up the block from layers could be done in such a way that the construction could not be seen?

My Crank is pretty well installed now with the split bearings scraped in and the oil holes in block and bearings drilled.
Next up I plan to do the Cam end bearings.
Pete


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## metalmad

I don't have the Cam gears yet so just hacked out a hole to poke through the Cam!



Pete


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## Lakc

gbritnell said:


> Without elaborate coring and casting there is no way to get the exhaust ports into the block.


George, with your talents, I cant see a corebox being much of a challenge for you. 


> I don't have the Cam gears yet so just hacked out a hole to poke through the Cam!


Looks like a nice solid casting. With poured bearings, you have definitely upped the jealousy factor.


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## metalmad

Hi Lakc
Bezelal cast up his Wallaby in ZA 27 bearing material and gave me the spews to make my split bearings from so I guess you could say they were poured 
I made up the Cam bearings today but have not drilled and tapped the Block yet.
Once Im sure everything is hunky- dory I'll cut the threaded end of the Cam down to suit the Cover.
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

Love it Pete really coming along goodThm:


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## ///

gbritnell said:


> I have drawn a flathead in 1/3 scale. The problem is trying to make it like a real Ford flathead engine. Without elaborate coring and casting there is no way to get the exhaust ports into the block. I wanted to see if I could make one from bar stock but I haven't come up with a design that will work.
> gbritnell



Hi George,
I have wanted to build a Ford flathead from barstock too, and also have the same problem.
It has been done by a member here, and I have contacted him for information but sadly have never had a reply.
Have a look at Roger's barstock flathead build here: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/my-flathead-1846/


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## lovemanop

I want to hear the engine.


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## metalmad

Hi Simon
Its a pity there has been no site activity from Roger since 2011. I would have loved to have seen more of his flathead V8, it makes my efforts seem silly.
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

metalmad said:


> Hi Simon
> Its a pity there has been no site activity from Roger since 2011. I would have loved to have seen more of his flathead V8, it makes my efforts seem silly.
> Pete


 
hey Pete. he or she or ban for life


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## metalmad

Hi Luc
I did not know "Bookmaker" was banned and I doubt he was, I think he only made half a dozen posts. The last was in 2009 I think from memory. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/my-flathead-1846/

Are you confusing him with "Lovemanop" by any chance?


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## canadianhorsepower

Sorry Pete, but your right I was thinking of love...
keep up the good work. Have you check my build
lately?

cheers


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## Motormagican

Hello Pete,
          Have not had much time to visit the site. Wanted to pop in and see how your engine is coming along. I am now back home in South Texas, retired, and cleaning up around the house and workshop. 
         I hope all is well with you and will continue to follow your progress. It has been a learning curve for me to see how you make and turn parts.


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## metalmad

Hay Luc
You look like your well on the way with your hit n miss 
Thanks MM Congrats on the retirement 
I have a bit of a learning curve of my own at the moment as this weekend I made up a 32 DP straight Hob with a hand ground 20 degree tool then took it over to the mill and used a slitting saw to relive the cutters.
After hardening the tool I put up a bit of one inch brass scrap and took a trial cut.
After making sure I had all 30 teeth I took it down to depth and then put back in the lathe to clean up and part off.
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi Pete
that looks pretty dam good for a learning curve


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## metalmad

Thanks Luc
If I'm real lucky It may even work, But I guess we all got to start somewhere :fan:
Pete


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## ShedBoy

Looks like it should work Pete. I looked into making my own hobbs and got a bit of a brain ache. Interesting to see how it goes.
Brock


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## metalmad

Hi Brock
So far Im over the moon with the Hob process, a few teething problems with the first gear, I got a little confused with depth of cut on the 30 tooth Crank gear and will remake it tomorrow but the 60 tooth Cam gear is done now. Its amazing how much easier things go the second time around, This time I took it to depth and simply cut all the teeth at full depth.  ;D
Pete


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## Lakc

Looks brilliant! I am quite a big fan of the hob method myself. My next step is better process control in the hardening, so I wont be afraid of going full depth on a steel blank, then next thing you know, you find yourself wanting to build a Quorn. Its a never ending vicious cycle.


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## gbritnell

Hi Pete,
I have used the hob method for some time now. Way back when I was doing my transmission there was quite a bit of discussion on the making and use of hobs within my transmission thread. The most note-worthy information is that a true involute profile isn't generated in gears with smaller tooth counts. Although I didn't find this a problem with the gears I have made I understood why it happens and in the process similar to making miter gears I would rotate the gear blank a fractional turn and then recut with the hob. It worked out very nicely. 
Isn't it a joy when you learn a new machining process that gives good results?
gbritnell


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## metalmad

Hi Lakc
I'm happy enough to use brass until I've played around a little and a lovely thing with the Hob is after the first cut, a full depth cut is only taking a tiny cut anyway 
George
You are so right!
It is a Joy and the most startling thing about the whole process is just how easy it is 
Thank you very much for the fractional tip, I had not thought of that and will do a few experiments after remaking my 30 tooth Thm: 
Pete


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## Johnyb

Hello Pete.
I have been looking at this site for some time and watching this build as well.
I know you say that the blueprints you have for this engine are not very good but is there a place that I can get them.
It will be a long time before I can make something like this.
And I am trying to get information on on a few things like gears.
Where or how did you get information on how to make gears and the broach to cut them.
Thanks John.


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## metalmad

Hi John
The straight Hob I made for my gears only approxamate a true involute tooth shape but for model engine use are cheap to make and work very well.
My hob cost me nothing to make and can make a whole range of gears while a set of eight commercial cutters would be needed otherwise, costing a small fortune.
If you want to try a straight Hob, go to Utube and watch 'Hobbynuts' videos on the subject.
 Send me your Email but be warned the plan set is unusable without a whole lot of changes.
Pete


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## Johnyb

Hi Pete. My email is [email protected]


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## metalmad

I cut the 30 tooth today and as far as free gears go, it does not get a lot better then this I recon.
This pic is straight from the mill with no deburring or clean up etc.
Pete


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## Motormagican

Hello Pete,
     Hope things are moving along well for you. I keep following to see how and where your V8 is. Just wanted to drop a line and say I look forward to updates as they happen. 
     Take care, Danny


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## rcfreak177

G'day Pete,

I hope all is well, how is the V8 engine coming along?

The new profile picture looks awesome with the supercharger belts and accessories on the engine.
mate when the job is all done and is up and running I was thinking of jumping on a plane and coming over for a day trip to hear the thing for real. I have a heap of frequent flyer points that I can burn up.

Glad you are able to get your head around those dodgy plans I gave you. The bloke that sold them too me must of been sitting back laughing at me.

Baz.


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## metalmad

Hi Guys
The V8 is still creeping along, I cast the Bellhousing the other day and am working on the Sparkplugs now.
I have not posted here as the whole 'free gift membership' thing bothers me,
Things like that run out and I'm simply not in a position to pay to see my own builds in the future.
Baz I would really enjoy that, I will need someone to hold the Camera for the Video.(If it runs that is) 
As for the plans, Its been a long time since I actually looked at them, I think it would be finished by now if I did not have to redesign everything as I go :wall:
Pete


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## canadianhorsepower

> I have not posted here as the whole free gift membership thing bothers me,
> *Things like that run out and I'm simply not in a position to pay to see my own builds in the future.*


 
Pete    what do you mean by this
having to pay to see our post??


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## Brian Rupnow

Yes Pete--What do you mean? If it ever gets to the point I have to pay ANYTHING to be a member or to see posts on this forum, there will be a thunderclap when the air rushes in to fill the space my ass left behind on this forum!!!---Brian


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## Motormagican

Good day Pete,
     Thought I would drop a line to see how things are coming along. I am not sure what the paying is all about. I will continue to follow your build as long as you are on the site. If you have an email let me know. Would like to keep up with your builds.


----------



## ausdier

I think what Pete means is that the more popular posts will be put into the "Private Forum" section http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/faq.php?faq=supporting#faq_supportingmembership ( point 8 )
and unless you have paid up you wouldn't be able to get into there ?


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## radial1951

Brian Rupnow said:


> Yes Pete--What do you mean? If it ever gets to the point I have to pay ANYTHING to be a member or to see posts on this forum, there will be a thunderclap when the air rushes in to fill the space my ass left behind on this forum!!!---Brian



Brian,

I'll be right behind you, along with many others I reckon. I couldn't find a "Private Forum" listed anywhere. Are any of you guys "Supporting Members"?
I don't recall being granted 'free gift membership'.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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## metalmad

Hi Ross
Have you looked at your profile lately?

*radial1951*

Gift Premium Subscription To radial1951

I may well be completely wrong about this, and it does seem very generous to me but what happens next year?
Thanks Ausdier 
At least I knew what I meant anyway, communication is not exactly my forte:hDe:
Pete


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## radial1951

metalmad said:


> Hi Ross
> Have you looked at your profile lately?
> 
> *radial1951*
> 
> Gift Premium Subscription To radial1951
> 
> I may well be completely wrong about this, and it does seem very *generous ?* to me but what happens next year?
> 
> Pete



Pete, I wondered what that meant. Does that mean you can give me a premium subscription as a gift? That's very kind of you! Thanks heaps...

I think I get it now. We all give each other a subscription, so we don't feel like we have to pay to be part of this forum, because someone else paid for our subscription.

Gee, I feel better already. Thanks Pete. 

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


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