# New cnc Lathe build.



## blighty (Jun 26, 2013)

hi all,

time to build a cnc lathe 

to start with im having a bit of a problem with the motor i'm going to use.... not to good with this electronic stuff and i'm not getting any luck on the zone.

theirs been a lot of talk about using a treadmill motors to drive the spindle on mills and lathes, so i thought i would give it a go. problem is, there doesn't seem to be any on UK ebay but shed loads on the U.S one. so i ended up buying a second hand treadmill. took it to bits and found this little lot.


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## blighty (Jun 26, 2013)

this is all well and good, but what the fluff and chuff do i do now??

i know you can get a 10k pot and put it on the board to control the speed of the motor, but any ides where it would go.

also i would like to reverse the motor, but i don't think the controller board will do that. so i dont think i will be going with the treadmill controller board.

been looking up a C6 board from cnc4pc. so that would be the mach to motor interface sorted, but i have know ider what to use for the controller.


:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## blighty (Jun 26, 2013)

3 posts in one day....... must be a record for me.

everything bar the motor is sorted. been collecting bits and bob's.

got the Z rails already, picked out all the driver's, bob, stepper, power supply. just need to get the credit card out.

chuck wise..... a mate has found two 6inch chucks at the back of his work shop that will do the job. 

then build the ruddy thing.


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## mu38&Bg# (Jun 26, 2013)

Try to find a name on the motor control. You can probably find a spec/tech sheet online. I think I see a markingon the board "POT16 SPEED". That three conductor red/white/black lead is a likely candidate. That motor has plenty of power.


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## blighty (Jun 26, 2013)

hi dieselpilot,

that red/white/black lead ether went to a encoder for the lift motor or it was the pick up for the main motor.

think your right about the power of the motor. i just hope if the chuck stalls the lathe don't flip over.


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## mu38&Bg# (Jun 27, 2013)

Did you find a part number on the drive?


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## blighty (Jun 27, 2013)

Couldn't look it up last night as it was 4am and I was at work

Just had a look, it's made by Pulse Power Systems p/n 1400 or it could be p/n qq-2066


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## bb218 (Jun 27, 2013)

If you are going to build a CNC Lathe I would think you would need a stepper type motor so the Computer control would know the speed and rotation positions  for cutting threads and also be able to track the RPM very closely for feed per rev  I think the motor on the tread mill is a DC motor with variable speed, good for variable speed on a manual machine but no encoders to track positon.
  I have ran a lot of CNC equipment but never did much work on the machine itself so the above comment may not be completely correct.   Mike


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## canadianhorsepower (Jun 27, 2013)

blighty said:


> Couldn't look it up last night as it was 4am and I was at wor
> 
> Just had a look, it's made by Pulse Power Systems p/n 1400 or it could be p/n qq-2066


 

if you have the complete threadmill there was a potentiometer on the control board to set your speed, take it with the wiring and you should be fine


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## blighty (Jun 27, 2013)

bb218 said:


> If you are going to build a CNC Lathe I would think you would need a stepper type motor so the Computer control would know the speed and rotation positions  for cutting threads and also be able to track the RPM very closely for feed per rev  I think the motor on the tread mill is a DC motor with variable speed, good for variable speed on a manual machine but no encoders to track positon.
> I have ran a lot of CNC equipment but never did much work on the machine itself so the above comment may not be completely correct.   Mike



stepper not needed, as on the back of the spindle there is a disk with a hole in it. a senser then sends a pulse back to mach so mach knows the rpm of the spindle.

i think you can put an encoder on the back of the tread mill motor and then controll it with a gecko G320 and have step and direct....... seen this done with Nordic DC motors, but as norm they don't go into it. they tend to show what they got and it working....tend to leave out the bit in the middle


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## blighty (Jun 27, 2013)

canadianhorsepower said:


> if you have the complete threadmill there was a potentiometer on the control board to set your speed, take it with the wiring and you should be fine




the potentiometer on the treadmills control is digital. you just pushed + - i've had a look at the wiring from the buttons and the go into a IC then of to the motor controller board with a ribbon cable.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jun 27, 2013)

blighty said:


> the potentiometer on the treadmills control is digital. you just pushed + - i've had a look at the wiring from the buttons and the go into a IC then of to the motor controller board with a ribbon cable.


 
what's the part number of the chip is probably a shift register
I could tell you with wire to use


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## blighty (Jun 27, 2013)

canadianhorsepower said:


> what's the part number of the chip is probably a shift register
> I could tell you with wire to use




thought a few pics would be better.

the last pics shows where the track goes to the ic, but i think it could be the earth as it goes to both speed buttons.


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## aarggh (Jun 27, 2013)

The beige chip highlighted in the last photo is a resistor pack. More than likely a pull-up/down for the I/O pins of the I.C. with the label. If you want to follow the earth traces, the black TO-226 package riveted to the PCB in the bottom right of the last photo looks like an LM7812/7805, or an LM317, if it's one of those, the middle pin will be ground.

cheers, Ian


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## canadianhorsepower (Jun 27, 2013)

Can you send me a close up picture of the flex pcb " picture with arrow"


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jun 27, 2013)

Having been through various treadmill motor control options myself, I'd advise you to get a KB brand SCR or PWM speed control.  They are plentiful on ebay both new & used.  The used ones work great and are very cheap if you shop around.  The manuals are free .pdf downloads with all hookup & adjustment data included.  Being industrial units, they are near bullet proof.

For your motor may I suggest a KBIC-240 (older but avail. used cheap) or if you want to reversing with dynamic braking, built in, a KBCC-225R.  These are both SCR controllers and work very well with Mach control via CNC4PC or Homann speed control boards.  KB has PWM controllers as well but they fetch more money.

I have a KBCC-125R (110V USA mains power) and am tickled pink with it.  I can input an M3S1800 command and the spindle smoothly runs up to 1800 RPM.  I then can type in M4S1800 (without an M5 (stop) command) and the spindle brakes smoothly down to "0", the control relay clacks and the spindle runs right back up to 1800 in the other direction, no muss, no fuss.

It also has provisions for a DC tach generator input to regulate the speed to 1% of set speed.  I am presently getting close to finished with my tach-gen installation.  I want to get that working and adjusted before trying threading with Mach.

Good luck with yours & keep posting as you progress.


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## mu38&Bg# (Jun 27, 2013)

You need to figure out what sort of signal is being sent down the RJ45(?) telephone connector looking leads. The control board for the treadmill should be completely independent of the motor drive. The signal will tell the drive how fast to run the motor, that is all. If you're lucky it's 0-5V and you don't need anything. Look for a mfg or model number on the drive itself.

I agree though, a KBIC-240 is ~70USD on Ebay. I used one on a treadmill motor when I had the old Craftsman lathe.


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## blighty (Jun 27, 2013)

canadianhorsepower....

i can't do your a pic at the mo as i'm at work   i'll upload one tomorrow.
would be good just to get the motor turning when its out of the treadmill.

 i could hook it all back up and use "Fitness program 3" and see if it cuts an 8mm thread.


DICKEYBIRD...

that in the long run is what i'm looking for. just looked up a KBCC-225R. and your right, theirs loads of them, just like a Nordic dc motor. also like the Nordic there all in America:wall::wall: 

like the idea of not using m5 before a M3/4 comand. the amount of time i have popped a relay...... ok, you just push the button back in, but its moving the 700lb of lathe to get to the button that gets on my tits.

take it your on about the C6 board?

i'll see what i can find on UK ebay.


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## blighty (Jun 27, 2013)

would this be what im looking for 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Used-KB-E...600?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d6948f28

so if i do end up getting one of these. i can plug 240vac 50Hz strait into it and have mach tell a C6 board what i need it to do..... forwards/backwards etc.?


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## blighty (Jun 27, 2013)

just found this......... http://www.axiscontrols.co.uk/shop/kbcc-range/9924

not to sure with this bit......
it says it's 240vac in, thats bits fine and the motor is 11 amps DC and again OK. however the DC output is 180v. the motor i have is rated at 220vdc would this make the motor run slower/less power. or is this another electronics thing that don't work like that.?


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jun 27, 2013)

Sorry, been out in the shop working on my own electrical screw-up.

Not sure about the 220/180vdc issue.  I know the top speed/max voltage is adjustable on the KB but that seems pretty far apart for a simple adjustment.  Like you noted, the KB specs do say max 180vdc.  They know their product I'm sure.

That's some motor you've got there and I guess it has a speed controller to match.  I'm not an expert on this stuff, just a happy KB user.  I'd hate to send you down the wrong path; maybe someone with professional experience will comment.

I'm using CNC4PC's C-11 multi-function breakout board/speed control.  I'm pretty sure the speed control section is the same as the C-6.  It works fine, handles forward/reverse and speed control but I had a lot of trouble with the instructions concerning the isolation issue.  I blew out a track on the board due to my lack of understanding but fortunately was able to repair it.  I finally got it all working by adding a KBSI-240D Signal Isolator board between the C11 & the KB.  Got it used on ebay for $25 and it fixed my problem.


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## blighty (Jun 28, 2013)

here you go... pic of the other end....


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## blighty (Jun 28, 2013)

DICKEYBIRD........

when i picked the treadmill up it was shown to be working, so that would imply all is well with the controller board. only problem with using its board is, it doesn't go backwards.

i have a Boxford 240 TCL that was retro fitted by someone else. i'll have a look and see what hes put in it to run the motor. i've been in the back a few times and there is a C6 type board, a clear box with lots of wires and two sod off big relays.


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## blighty (Jun 28, 2013)

just been having a look on the old intermerweb net again for Reversing DC Motor Speed Controller (yes i did copy paste that) and noticed a bit of a trend.

all the ones i found that i think are up to the job i.e. more than 11amps 3hp plus are all 240vac input and 180vdc output. maybe the motor didn't run on 240vdc when it was in the treadmill.

i might hook it all back up and see what coming out of the controller and how fast the motor is going.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jun 29, 2013)

blighty said:


> i might hook it all back up and see what coming out of the controller and how fast the motor is going.


 Sounds like a good plan!

It's pretty easy to hook up a big 'ol DPDT relay controlled by Mach between your controller & motor to get reverse rotation but then you have to worry about blowing up the controller with reverse polarity spikes from accidently reversing while the spindle is spinning down to a stop.  There's info on the web showing how to get around the problem but it's way over my head.  I was working on it when I stumbled onto a steal on the KBCC....end of problem!

By the way, you might also consider a 3 phase AC motor & VFD as well since they're getting pretty reasonable these days.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jun 29, 2013)

This is what you have to do to alternate your motor
rotation you can also put a capacitor on the input


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## blighty (Jun 29, 2013)

thought about going the AC motor and VFD way. i have done this with the mill for a belt conversion..... still working on that one. price for the motor and VFD came to about £350 so i thought i would give the treadmill way ago:wall:

if I can sort out this relay to reverse the motor that DICKEYBIRD/canadianhorsepower have suggested, then i can use all the stuff from the treadmill and as the treadmill cost me £74.... think it will be a bit of a bargain

just out of interest, how does the relay know when to reverse the motor?  does mach/C6 board turn that relay on at the M4 command effectively swapping the wires over.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jun 29, 2013)

[quoteif I can sort out this relay to reverse the motor that DICKEYBIRD/canadianhorsepower have suggested, then i can use all the stuff from the treadmill and as the treadmill cost me £74.... think it will be a bit of a bargain
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just out of interest, how does the relay know when to reverse the motor?  does mach/C6 board turn that relay on at the M4 command effectively swapping the wires over. ][/quote]

you don't have to use a relay just the switch will do. I use this set up (treadmill and switch) on my taig lathe, I chose a switch with a neutral
position so it goes FWD OFF in the middle and REV.

the way a relay works is the same thing then the switch when the coil is energise it will go in one direction, when de -energise it goes the other way. 
If your going with the relay I would suggest that your motor turn in the forward direction when the relay is off


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## vidio1 (Jun 29, 2013)

blighty said:


> stepper not needed, as on the back of the spindle there is a disk with a hole in it. a senser then sends a pulse back to mach so mach knows the rpm of the spindle.
> 
> i think you can put an encoder on the back of the tread mill motor and then controll it with a gecko G320 and have step and direct....... seen this done with Nordic DC motors, but as norm they don't go into it. they tend to show what they got and it working....tend to leave out the bit in the middle



 Assuming you will be belt driving the spindle, you probably want to run the encoder off the spindle. There's no sense scrapping a part because of a belt slip. FYI Mach uses a single pulse per rotation if I remember correctly. It works, but it's far from ideal. I've seen people use 2 encoders spaced 90 deg. from one another to improve upon that.


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## vidio1 (Jun 29, 2013)

DICKEYBIRD said:


> Sounds like a good plan!
> 
> It's pretty easy to hook up a big 'ol DPDT relay controlled by Mach between your controller & motor to get reverse rotation but then you have to worry about blowing up the controller with reverse polarity spikes from accidently reversing while the spindle is spinning down to a stop.  There's info on the web showing how to get around the problem but it's way over my head.  I was working on it when I stumbled onto a steal on the KBCC....end of problem!
> 
> By the way, you might also consider a 3 phase AC motor & VFD as well since they're getting pretty reasonable these days.



You would normally use a braking resistor to bleed off back-feed. There are dedicated circuits built for this:

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=64_77&products_id=335

It might give you an idea of what you need to build one.


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## blighty (Jun 29, 2013)

vidio1 said:


> Assuming you will be belt driving the spindle, you probably want to run the encoder off the spindle. There's no sense scrapping a part because of a belt slip. FYI Mach uses a single pulse per rotation if I remember correctly. It works, but it's far from ideal. I've seen people use 2 encoders spaced 90 deg. from one another to improve upon that.



yep.. sensor will go on the back of the spindle. this well be the same set up as the Boxford 240 i have. been having good results using a G32 code for threading and semi ridged tapping...... no problems so far.

i was threading with it the other day, 6mm thread 1mm pitch @600rpm. turned out well.

for ridged tapping i made a floating tap holder that is mounted between two springs. as when the tap reaches depth, the Z axis stops, but the chuck will spin on for a few more rev's then stop.  the same thing happens when the tap comes back out.

seems to be working well with the one censor.


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## blighty (Jun 29, 2013)

> you don't have to use a relay just the  switch will do. I use this set up (treadmill and switch) on my taig  lathe, I chose a switch with a neutral
> position so it goes FWD OFF in the middle and REV.
> 
> the way a relay works is the same thing then the switch when the coil is  energise it will go in one direction, when de -energise it goes the  other way.
> If your going with the relay I would suggest that your motor turn in the forward direction when the relay is off


may of got the wrong end of the stick before.......

this switch your on about is just a switch? i.e manually operated, when i want the motor to go backwards I flick the switch and Mach is none the wiser. 

if that is the case i'm might go with that. as the only time i need to reverse the chuck is when i'm tapping (G32).

reason being, the boxford 240 runs CW (looking from tail stock at the chuck) this is because it puts pressure on the tool changer's stop. so when you have to drill something you have to revers the chuck.

the tool changer i'm going to build for my lathe will load up the other way around and the tools will be mounted upside down, at the back of the lathe. so no need to revers the chuck for drilling.

so unless im doing a tapping cycle, no need to revers the chuck.

all needed now, is to find out where to hook up the C6 board to the controller :wall:


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## blighty (Jun 29, 2013)

just thought i would add..........

i've been:wall::wall: for months trying to figure this lot out, with many, many nights on the net. In the space of 3 days you guys have got me one wire (ish) placement away from getting it going.


thanks to you all!!:bow:


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## blighty (Jul 2, 2013)

sort of hit a dead end with this controller problem. as i need the reversing bit, I'm not to keen on using the treadmills board and i'm not sure if a KBCC-225R will run the motor to its full. as it only kicks out 180vdc when the motor calls for 220vdc. at £150 and what ever Mr. Import Tax because we can tax Tax, adds on. is a bit to much on a maybe.

I'm going to give the guy i got the boxford from (as he retrofitted it) a call, see what he uses for his conversions. with a bit of luck he'll have what i'm looking for....... not.


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## canadianhorsepower (Jul 2, 2013)

blighty said:


> sort of hit a dead end with this controller problem. as i need the reversing bit, I'm not to keen on using the treadmills board and i'm not sure if a KBCC-225R will run the motor to its full. as it only kicks out 180vdc when the motor calls for 220vdc. at £150 and what ever Mr. Import Tax because we can tax Tax, adds on. is a bit to much on a maybe.
> 
> I'm going to give the guy i got the boxford from (as he retrofitted it) a call, see what he uses for his conversions. with a bit of luck he'll have what i'm looking for....... not.


 
I will try to find the picture I have of a treadmill set up running a 3/4 inch press drill .....................the results will kick you on your but
for 5o.00 Canadian can]'t beat it....never:hDe:


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## blighty (Jul 15, 2013)

this is turning into a nightmare :-(

been looking some stuff up about the treadmill the motor came from. according to the tread mill specks it is 2.7hp and not 2.7kw (3.5hp) like the motor says. at 11amps.

so going by that, the KBCC 225R rated at 3hp and 16amps sounds like it will do the job. that still leaves the 220dcv on the motor to worry about as the 225r is 180dcv. but saying that, all the dc controllers i have found are all 180dcv.

next problem....price. there is one place in the UK i have found that sells them @ £195 don't know if thats vat inc. 

if this board will do the job, i have asked a mate who lives in the US to get one from flea bay and drop it off over here the next time he's on a works jolly.
should save me self about £120.....but cost a pint in P+P.

sound good to you guys ???


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## /// (Jul 16, 2013)

blighty said:


> according to the tread mill specks it is 2.7hp and not 2.7kw (3.5hp) like the motor says.



But the motor does say 2.7kW on the manufacturer's nameplate 
(2nd photo in your original post)


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## blighty (Jul 16, 2013)

Yep your right, it does say 2.7kw, but you could say I don't have to use all it's power and if I do go with the kbcc board at the 180dcv  then it won't be. 


Or will  it?


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## salzburg (Jul 16, 2013)

With the 180v dc drive you will end up with about 2.5 hp.
I bought a 12"x30" used lathe that came with a 0.75 hp ac motor. Switched to a 2 hp ac motor and it worked great.
so unless your lathe is bigger a 2.5 hp motor should do.


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## blighty (Jul 16, 2013)

the lathe i'm building will be swinging a 6"chuck at 3500rpm hence the 4000rpm motor. so it was going to get geared down any way. the size of the lathe would be like my 10 x 22. that has a 1.5hp motor in it, but because of the gearing at 2500rpm it more like 1hp. 

I'm beginning to think this board will do the job.

a mate in the US is ready and waiting to click the "Buy it now" tab and he can drop it of to me in a few weeks.

so guys........ should i get a KBCC 225R board??

yes?
no?

you decide


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jul 16, 2013)

Wow, 3500 rpm?  Sounds pretty fast for a 6" chuck to me.  Mine does 1800 and is fast enough for me.  If you're turning something small enough to need 3500 you'd want a small collet chuck wouldn't you?  You're also gonna need some good spindle bearings.

I'm very happy with my KB's and would recommend them to anyone.  To tell the truth though, I'm not technically motor savvy enough to advise you on whether or not it will do exactly what you want it to do with your motor.  If it's a good deal & if it were me I'd probably try it & see.

As long as you connect it properly, I don't think you can hurt it and if it doesn't give you enough power, I'd bet you could easily sell it or keep your eyes open for a deal on a Baldor type 180V motor to match the KB.

By the way, did you ever hook it up to the original controller & see what voltage it actually runs at?  Maybe it's running at a lower voltage than the nameplate says to make it last longer/run cooler?


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## blighty (Jul 16, 2013)

DICKEYBIRD said:


> Wow, 3500 rpm?  Sounds pretty fast for a 6" chuck to me.  Mine does 1800 and is fast enough for me.  If you're turning something small enough to need 3500 you'd want a small collet chuck wouldn't you?  You're also gonna need some good spindle bearings.
> 
> I'm very happy with my KB's and would recommend them to anyone.  To tell the truth though, I'm not technically motor savvy enough to advise you on whether or not it will do exactly what you want it to do with your motor.  If it's a good deal & if it were me I'd probably try it & see.
> 
> ...



the chuck is rated at 4500rpm so i know it will hold together, but yes your right, it will be scary. 

one of the things ill have to come up with is a spindle that can ether have the chuck or a collet system. ER42 type of thing. think this would be good for all the valves i will have to make one day...

just heard back from an electronic mate about the motor. 

That actually looks like a pretty good match. 

180DCV x 16A = 2.88Kw  vs. 2.7kw on the Motor. 

So don't turn it up past 9.5 on the dial. 

The 220VDC rating on the motor is likely a max rating anyway.

so the guy in the US has ordered one for me and hes going to throw it out of the 747's window as it fly's over England........ hope he packs it well


sorry i never did get a chance to hooking it all back up. as it seemed the KB board would do the job i didn't see the point.

now that's sorted........ time to design the ruddy thing.


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## blighty (Jul 17, 2013)

the KB board is on its way he should get in a week or two and he will be here mid August.

guess i should start getting steppers, drivers, power supply and blaa blaa.

stepper wise i'm debating on nema 23 or 34 can't decide. if i go with 23 they will be 566oz or 651oz in the 34, but i think 651oz might be a bit over kill as the lathe will be on linear ground rails. and you can over do it with steppers.

i think i will just go for the c6 board for the lathe and save the C11 for when i start the ATC for the mill. on a side note, anyone how many axis the C11 bob has?


if you guys have any input on the steppers? i'll start ordering things.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jul 18, 2013)

I think the 23 size motor best matches what you're wanting to do.  I'm no expert but that seems to be the most popular size chosen by people that know about such things for small to medium size machines.  You can go easily too big on stepper size and have problems.

My C11 has hookups for 4 axes/stepper motors, 2 on-board relays and a some extra outputs.  On my lathe I'm using 2 steppers, the 2 relays for fwd/rev spindle, the 0-10V analog output for spindle speed and a couple pins to control an extra cutting oil pump on/off relay.

If you're using all 4 axes on the mill (X, Y, Z & A) and need to control an ATC as well, I think you can use your PC's serial output to control it via Modbus.  Don't ask me how but I've seen reference to it here & there on the web.  That's way over my head at this stage.


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## rcfreak177 (Jul 18, 2013)

Hi,
There is no problem with running the larger steppers, you obviously would need to have the corresponding power supply and stepper drives to suit.
also you will need to tune the motors to suit the application you have through the velocity and acceleration settings. 

I have a SX3 mill, the recommended size stepper for the Z axis is Nema 34 900 oz, I decided to go outside this and run a 1800 oz stepper to be able to do away with the gas strut and have fast Z axis positioning. Have had no problem, very fast but draws a maximum of 8 amps of current @ 50v so it needs its own power supply.

With the extra axis's (if required) I added a second 25 pin LPT and also a second breakout board, this runs my ATC and related air solenoids and sensors. I still have a couple of spare inputs and outputs.

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=pci&x=14&y=8

I bought a cheap made in China 5 axis B/O board and simply configured the setup to run one axis and the other 4 axis were pinned out to provide outputs to run an 8 way relay board (2 per axis = 8 extra)

Here is the you beaut budget B/O
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-Axis-C...cal_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f27355c63&_uhb=1


There is a lot of things you can do with Mach3 that are outside of the box and are not listed in the manual. It is easy to cheat the system yet still have a reliable machine.

I am looking forward to seeing this build as it progresses. I have an Emco 120P to retrofit with Pokeys Modbus which I have not yet started on and may be able to pick up a couple of idea's.

Cheers,
Baz.


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## blighty (Jul 18, 2013)

DICKEYBIRD said:


> I think the 23 size motor best matches what you're wanting to do.  I'm no expert but that seems to be the most popular size chosen by people that know about such things for small to medium size machines.  You can go easily too big on stepper size and have problems.
> 
> My C11 has hookups for 4 axes/stepper motors, 2 on-board relays and a some extra outputs.  On my lathe I'm using 2 steppers, the 2 relays for fwd/rev spindle, the 0-10V analog output for spindle speed and a couple pins to control an extra cutting oil pump on/off relay.
> 
> If you're using all 4 axes on the mill (X, Y, Z & A) and need to control an ATC as well, I think you can use your PC's serial output to control it via Modbus.  Don't ask me how but I've seen reference to it here & there on the web.  That's way over my head at this stage.



your right about going to big on stepper. as i here they need a bit of load to push against. the ones i have on my mill (RF45) are Nema 34 960oz on the X,Y and they happily push the table around at 7500mm/min  (295in/min) i have set it to 4500mm/min as at 7500 when the table stops the mill carries on going for  bit. 

i was looking for a 5/6 axis bob for the mill thought the c11 would be ok as soon the mill will have its ac motor fitted. for the time being i'll run it from the VFD . then later when i sort out the ATC get a c11 to run the motor, but as the c11 is a 4 axis board i'll have to find something else 

i have just ordered 3 Nema 23 566oz, 5 axis bob (think it has two relays) stepper controller boards cant remember the name at the mo, but there in the boxford lathe i have and they've  been fine.... so i thought i would give them a go. and a power supply.

was trying to order a C6 board, but paypal said i have spent to much and refused it. now i have to sort that out so i can spend my own money:wall::wall:  

you say you use the two relays to control fwd/rev. will i have to do the same thing with this KBCC board? as i thought it did it any way.


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## blighty (Jul 18, 2013)

rcfreak177,

like the idea of the second BOB. cnc4pc does do a 6 axis bob but i think its for the smooth stepper. not sure if it will work with out one. i only need the sixth if i went for the 5th axis one day............... not! but this is all for the mill.

the lathe will just be Z,X ATC and a relay for the coolant.

i should really start getting something drawn up, get some square tubing in and sort out a big chunk of granite.


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## blighty (Jul 18, 2013)

> I have an Emco 120P to retrofit with Pokeys Modbus which I have not yet  started on and may be able to pick up a couple of idea's.



sorry mist that bit......

just you tubed the 120p. looks like a nice machine. i really like how they have done the tail stock. been trying to think of a way of putting a tail stock on my lathe. think i'll see if i can do it like that.

i saw one vid of the 120p that had a automated tail stock. he used this as a stop to get his stock in the right position for turning. once he tightened up the chuck the tail stock retracted back out of the way..........

is that a standard thing on a 120p ?


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## rcfreak177 (Jul 19, 2013)

blighty said:


> sorry mist that bit......
> 
> just you tubed the 120p. looks like a nice machine. i really like how they have done the tail stock. been trying to think of a way of putting a tail stock on my lathe. think i'll see if i can do it like that.
> 
> ...



Yep thats right,

Emco made a 120 and a 120P (among others)

The 120 has a manual chuck and tailstock, while the 120P has a pneumatic chuck or 5C collet closer and also a pneumatic tailstock, both programmable via the code.

The tailstock on the 120P is great because it has 2 sensors fitted so you can set the travel in and out, They are a very rigid machine. I love them.

Predominantly used as a training machine but can be found in production and R+D tool room environment due to the high degree of accuracy and repeatability.

I have the parts manual with a breakdown of all parts. If you want to have a look at it to get some idea's just give me a yell and I will send it to you.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jul 19, 2013)

blighty said:


> you say you use the two relays to control fwd/rev. will i have to do the same thing with this KBCC board? as i thought it did it any way.


The KB has to be switched via 3 of its terminals to get Fwd/Rev with braking.  You can do it with an external  manual switch but if you want Mach to control it, you'll have to have relays or some other kind of switching circuitry.

Here's the KB switching diagram from the manual.  I'm no sparky so it took me 2 relays on the C11 to accomplish that.  There might be a way to do it with just one relay?  It also could be switched using output pins on the BOB & a couple external 5V signal relays.


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## blighty (Jul 19, 2013)

rcfreak117

YELL!!!

i think the more info i get before i start the build the better. at the mo i have been going over this boxford 240TCL picking out the good bits, modding the not so good bits and the odd "if i did it like that instead it might be better".

i looked into a pneumatic chuck, but the one i found was £1500 so i though i would stick the the old fashion way.

DICKEYBIRD....

thanks for that. the c6 and KBCC should be here in a few weeks. i can give it a go then.


box turned up today any quicker, it would of turned up before i had ordered it. one thing did surprise me was the size of the steppers. Nema 23's are a lot smaller then 34's i just hope the only difference between a 600oz nema 34 and a 600oz nema 23 is the overall size. 


list of bits.... so far
motor
KBCC board
C6 board
power supply 
steppers x3
step drives x3
5 axis bob
PC and bits
1800mm of linear ground rails 
4 carriages (for above)
and a chuck

so all i have to do, is throw that lot into a box and i got me self a cnc lathe...... how hard can that be:wall::wall:


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jul 19, 2013)

blighty said:


> i think the more info i get before i start the build the better


So very true, that!  Mine has been under construction/revision for over a year & it's just now getting to the point where it's useful.  Over & over I "finished" one part of it, went on to the next item & in the process of "finishing" that one I'd discover a better way to do the previous item and went back & redid the previous one.  One step forward, 2 steps back...ad nauseum.  I sure have learned a lot but at my age the stuff I did last year is getting fainter & fainter.

I cut my 1st threads (16mm x 1.5 in steel) over the weekend and although they came out pretty well, I'm already sketching up a dual pulley system to slow down the spindle by 1/3 for threading jobs.  It never ends!  (...but I'm loving it.;D)


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## blighty (Jul 19, 2013)

what speed are you threading at? and what thread code do you use?
if you go to slow your be scraping the metal of instead of cutting it.

I've been having great success with G32 threading brass and ali at 600mm/min
it will also do ridged (ish) tapping with G32 using a floating tape holder.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Jul 20, 2013)

I use the "Simple Threading" wizard in Mach3 which generates a G76 code.

At the moment I'm very limited in the max. spindle speed I can run due to my weak/slow driver & stepper motors .  I'm using an old driver I had on hand, 2 amp @ 40V.  Budget constraints keep me from "muscle-ing up the Z at the moment.

The threads were cut @ 300 rpm which is on the low end of the curve for the KB & Baldor 3/4 hp motor but is about as  fast as I could go due to the limited speed/accel of the Z axis.  Stabilizing the spindle speed by "gearing down" to 2 or 3:1 instead of a little under 1:1 would help a lot.  Threading is just an experiment right now as the lathe will be used mostly for simple contouring in aluminum.


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## blighty (Jul 20, 2013)

i never did get on with Mach 3 thread cutting wizard. the guy we got the boxford from just had the demo of Mach so the wizard wouldn't work. we put the license  on it and gave it a go, but we couldn't get it to work. turned out that as it was just a demo he hadn't set up the spindle sincro' up. by the time i had worked that out, i was looking into this G32 and as its an easy bit of code to write i've stuck with it.

i now just have a .txt file that i copy and past into the new bit of code and just change the pitch, -z and the doc.


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## blighty (Aug 13, 2013)

quick update........

all me electronic bits are now in  the C6 and the KBCC board turned up today.

I'll take some pic's of what i have and put them up tomorrow.

getting closer........


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## blighty (Mar 5, 2018)

lets drag this one out again.......

just like the MG12 rebuild...... my, doesn't time fly.

5 years (shock horror) latter been looking into the lathe build again. starting the thread off again might give me the kick up the *** to get it finished.
So going from where we left off. I still have most of what i had. still have the DC motor with the c6 board and the KBCC driver.
now down to one stepper and drive as i used the other 2 steppers and drivers for the 4th and 5th axis mod on the mill. will still use the one i have for the tool changer.
also used the rails for a z axis mod for the mill.

over the last week or so I have been playing with ides for the layout of the lathe. come up with 2 ways. ill get a screen print from Fusion latter as a rough idea. not to sure what one to go for, both have pros and cons.
first one is to build the lathe on a flat plate then lift said plate 45 deg. or.... build on the flat but lift the X axis of the Z axis by 45deg.

as i have to get 2 more steppers,  don't think the ones i had would of done the job anyway.. nema 23 500oz. thought about going the way of the mill. nema32 960oz running @61vd and getting good results. but since then they have brought out these Hybrid Stepper Servos. twice the price of normal steppers of the same type but smoother and they wont loose steps. but saying that setup on the mill don't loose steps. they run faster @3000rpm, but wont be running them that fast.
think im answering my own question here (don't think I've asked one yet) 

so what to go for? normal old steppers or Hybrid Stepper Servo?


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## blighty (Mar 5, 2018)

two screen shots of what i'm thinking. go easy, there just thrown together to get a rough idea.

first one is the classic slant bed design. from a building point, not to bad, but more frame work would be needed to tilt the "lathe" up. also with all the welding on the main frame, something is bound to move.

second one is the other classic slant bed design. i'm thinking with this one i can just build it as in the pic and bolt it to a plate of steel. then build a frame around it to keep all the crap in.

it would be nice to build the whole thing from half inch plate, but don't have the stuff to de-stress it or machine something that size.


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## blighty (Mar 6, 2018)

been looking up BOB's and smooth stepper type boards.
although i have a smooth stepper on the mill and very pleased with it. turns out there not so hot on the turning. they don't support anti backlash or treading. but saying that i had a Boxford 240 with a SS and the seemed to thread quite well. In another thread Ronginger said he had changes over to Pokey57. been looking these up. they have 3 of them Pokey57U, Pokey57E and Pokey57cnc. first 2 are 3 axis usb/Ethernet. the cnc one is 8 axis with all the bells and whistles. the specs on them and what they can do seems a beeter buy than the SS. even if i get the cnc version it still works out a lot cheaper than the SS.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Mar 6, 2018)

blighty said:


> been looking up BOB's and smooth stepper type boards.
> although i have a smooth stepper on the mill and very pleased with it. turns out there not so hot on the turning. they don't support anti backlash or treading.


2 words: Centroid Acorn!  http://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html  Forum:  http://centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=60  True encoder threading, CSS & proven software.


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## blighty (Mar 6, 2018)

DICKEYBIRD said:


> 2 words: Centroid Acorn!  http://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html  Forum:  http://centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=60  True encoder threading, CSS & proven software.



been looking at them, impressive bit of kit. even down loaded the software for a look see. like the screen layout as well as i will be using a touch screen. problem is shipping to the UK as i will get hammered for tax. would double the price.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Mar 6, 2018)

blighty said:


> problem is shipping to the UK as i will get hammered for tax. would double the price.


Sounds like you guys need your own reseller over there.  IMO it's worth the money difference between the Acorn and other DIY controllers for the software & support alone.:thumbup:

I loved Mach when there were few alternatives but now, not so much.


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## blighty (Mar 6, 2018)

> I loved Mach when there were few alternatives but now, not so much.



we need a lot of things over here...... new government would be good for a start. 

yep, mach3 has been good, thinking of sticking with 3 or move on to 4 will also change the mill over to 4 at the same time.
other options would be linuxcnc or change over to one of these chines all in one things.


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## DICKEYBIRD (Mar 6, 2018)

blighty said:


> other options would be linuxcnc


If you have decent Linux skills, that's the way to go.  Great software, relatively inexpensive hardware (including good encoder compatibility) good support...what's not to like!  Alas, it's completely out of reach for me due to my lacking of the needed computer  skills.


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## blighty (Mar 12, 2018)

DICKEYBIRD said:


> If you have decent Linux skills, that's the way to go.  Great software, relatively inexpensive hardware (including good encoder compatibility) good support...what's not to like!  Alas, it's completely out of reach for me due to my lacking of the needed computer  skills.



looked into Linux when i first started this thread mainly for the its encoder capabilities. as you say unless you have the skills. or find a forum where people have done it all ready. then its a long learning curve.

Gave Fusion 360 a hammering over the weekend. decided to go for the "first"  classic slantbed design. will post the cad pics when done... although it does look like every other slantbed lathe.

if all goes well, it will have a 15" swing over the bed. 10" over the saddle and length of 17 and a bit inch. 8 tool ATC. 46mm (1.811") through hole and some other stuff:thumbup: would also like to have a tail stock, but haven't figured out how to do that yet.

Spindle? not to sure how to go about this, as in bearings. at the mo i'm thinking of  angular roller bearing both ends, pre load nut on the drive end. some say this is bad because of spindle expansion. others go for both roller bearing at the chuck end, then a plane bearing at the other. this allows for the expansion. had a look at my other lathe that has roughly the same size spindle. that has roller bearing at ether ends. would probably be easier machining wise to have the bearings ether end, but if this is going to   cause   problems later on, best to know now.


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## xpylonracer (Mar 12, 2018)

Blighty, both slower and less power than the rated output.


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## ninefinger (Mar 12, 2018)

I would recommend blatantly copying a spindle design from a lathe that already exists and works well.  I have the drawings of my Standard Modern 1340 lathe (13" swing, 5MT & D1-4 camlock) and they use 2 tapered roller bearings together at the chuck end (actually a double row tapered bearing), and a single deep groove bearing at the far end (6009-2RS not shown).
Mike


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## blighty (Mar 13, 2018)

ninefinger said:


> I would recommend blatantly copying a spindle design from a lathe that already exists and works well.  I have the drawings of my Standard Modern 1340 lathe (13" swing, 5MT & D1-4 camlock) and they use 2 tapered roller bearings together at the chuck end (actually a double row tapered bearing), and a single deep groove bearing at the far end (6009-2RS not shown).
> Mike



think you're right, go with tried a tested:thumbup:.

I will have to change some things around with how i have done the head stock. but should be better that what i had in mind originally.

looked up double row bearings...... my word, there a bit on the expensive side. the O/D of the spindle is 60mm ( 2.362") a double row for that was £547. single row £95. then started looking at the size of the spindle. if i went to 65mm the price goes up. if look at imperial sizes the price goes down. 63.5mm(2.5") start at £14 up to £768. ill just close my eyes and pic one.

would need to change the dim of the shaft from 60mm to 63.5mm good for two reasons. 1, bigger wall thickness. 2, less to machine off.


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## ninefinger (Mar 14, 2018)

I hate to suggest it but you could (almost) buy a complete lathe spindle cartridge from Alibaba for the price of bearings!  
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/A2-4-belt-driven-lathe-turning_60569883119.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.32.a2e87b03Ng5jZE

It probably is very close after materials for the spindle are purchased and cheaper if you value your time, even after shipping charges.
However - I have no experience buying using Alibaba so do not take this as a recommendation!

Mike


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## blighty (Mar 17, 2018)

ninefinger said:


> I hate to suggest it but you could (almost) buy a complete lathe spindle cartridge from Alibaba for the price of bearings!
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/A2-4-belt-driven-lathe-turning_60569883119.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.32.a2e87b03Ng5jZE
> 
> It probably is very close after materials for the spindle are purchased and cheaper if you value your time, even after shipping charges.
> ...



like the idea (here's the but), but the cost of getting that over here would be a lot. I try not to import stuff from the US because  of this. nice find tough and thank you for looking :thumbup:

Got some bearings the other day, so I've been in the shed drawing things up. a few things worry me at the mo. the first is the thickness of the light blue bit. it turned out to be 6mm (0.125in ish) I could go another 2 or 3mm bigger buy changing the screws from 8mm to 6mm but use more of them. going to 6mm will give me more room to make that part thicker.

secondly , is the end of the blue bit. this is all the room I have because of the bearing. will this be enough to hold the whole thing together? but how much load will be on that bit? after all its not an 8ton lathe taking half inch cuts in SS at a million miles an hour.


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## ozzie34231 (Mar 22, 2018)

You are well into your own design, but just for the future, buying from Alibaba shipping would be from Shanghi, not U.S.


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## Wizard69 (Mar 22, 2018)

blighty said:


> like the idea (here's the but), but the cost of getting that over here would be a lot. I try not to import stuff from the US because  of this. nice find tough and thank you for looking :thumbup:


That would be a low cost spindle from China, you can buy a large variety of US made cartridge spindles but your pocket book might scream at the cost.   If you do a Google search for cartridge spindles in the USA or China you will find a very large variety of off the shelf spindles available.   There are advantages to cartridge spindles but also disadvantages depending upon what you intend to accomplish.


> Got some bearings the other day, so I've been in the shed drawing things up. a few things worry me at the mo. the first is the thickness of the light blue bit. it turned out to be 6mm (0.125in ish) I could go another 2 or 3mm bigger buy changing the screws from 8mm to 6mm but use more of them. going to 6mm will give me more room to make that part thicker.


Generally you can get two types of bearings suitable for spindle use.   Those ground with a preload built in and those that are ground such that you can adjust the preload yourself.   That design appears to be one that expects to use preloaded bearings but I'm not sure due what appears to be a shoulder splitting to the two bearings..    If it is your intention to use preloaded bearings I'd go with a more robust mounting solution that keeps the set of bearing together.    If you separate the two bearings in a preloaded set, your spacers need to be ground to some extremely tight dimensions to keep preload on target.

Personally I'd prefer a bearing that allows for an adjustable preload myself.


> secondly , is the end of the blue bit. this is all the room I have because of the bearing. will this be enough to hold the whole thing together? but how much load will be on that bit? after all its not an 8ton lathe taking half inch cuts in SS at a million miles an hour.



It isn't the size of the cuts but the resistance to chatter and the production of a good surface finish that should be your goal.   When you go to these large swings you need to have a stiff spindle and that requires a stiff spindle bearing set to support the spindle.   There are all sorts of (lets say classes) of machines out there with the same dimensional specs, how well they perform is often a question of how stiffly they are built.


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## Wizard69 (Mar 22, 2018)

ninefinger said:


> I would recommend blatantly copying a spindle design from a lathe that already exists and works well.  I have the drawings of my Standard Modern 1340 lathe (13" swing, 5MT & D1-4 camlock) and they use 2 tapered roller bearings together at the chuck end (actually a double row tapered bearing), and a single deep groove bearing at the far end (6009-2RS not shown).
> Mike



Nice post!   This drawing highlights some of the tolerances one needs to achieve to get a good spindle fit up.   One thing missing form this print is the lubrication solution  which is often forgotten about with DIY spindles.

I might also point out that some lathes, a Hardinge HLV comes to mind, that use two angular contact bearings spread apart on the spindle.   Keeping the two spindle bearings together at the front of the spindle seems to be the modern solution.   Some designs even supplement the two bearings with a roller bearing to better handle radial thrusts .   

In the end there are many solutions but copying a known good solution certainly removes a lot of risk.


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## blighty (Mar 23, 2018)

great post's Wizard.

the bearing would be the type I preload. the drawing of the bearings in the pic are the outside dim's. I didn't go for scale. I'll post a pic of them tonight might make more sense. think your right on the spacer. I made it 6mm just because. will probably change that to shim, just to take up the slack. when preloaded all surfaces should touch. just like the fixed and on a ball screw.

I'll be nipping down steam engine guy (MJ engineering) next week to see what metal he has in.  i can then finish the drawing of the lathe. 
will probably start with the spindle and housing. also get the card out and start ordering the hardware..... ball screws, nuts, rails etc.


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## blighty (Mar 28, 2018)

had a look a some metal today. found some nice lumps for the ATC, spindle for the ATC and a few bits and bobs all for the ATC. So all of the material for the ATC (how many time can i type ATC)is ok. apart from the tool holder bit. Thats a big bit of metal, but may be changing it as i think it a bit over kill. The ATC on the Boxford is only 8" think the one i did is bigger.

he had a big lump of cast for the main spindle, but its was 5 3/4" i need 6 and a bit :-(
He can get what i need, just send him a list.

I also need a 10" square for the main plate. only thing he had was a bit of gauge plate, but its only 9.5mm thick. I know gauge plate is strong stuff, but i'm not sure if 9.5mm will be strong enough. good thing about it is i'ts ground flat both sides and parallel. Might try that stress calculator in Fusion see what it says.

Now having a problem with the head stock material. would like something about 15mm thick and at least 8" wide. but cant find any one in the UK that stocks it. Anyone know of a place in the UK?


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## ninefinger (Mar 28, 2018)

I really wouldn't use cast iron for the spinny bits like the spindle, I'm assuming you're talking about cast iron.   Failure could result in death.  Just think about how cast iron can be broken and imagine your spindle breaking right at the main bearing - sending the spindle nose and the chuck flying!  You need a good steel for the spindle, the housing can be cast.
Mike


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## blighty (Mar 30, 2018)

ninefinger said:


> I really wouldn't use cast iron for the spinny bits like the spindle, I'm assuming you're talking about cast iron.   Failure could result in death.  Just think about how cast iron can be broken and imagine your spindle breaking right at the main bearing - sending the spindle nose and the chuck flying!  You need a good steel for the spindle, the housing can be cast.
> Mike



with you on the cast iron, changed me mind about 5 seconds after I saw it.

He's got lots of metal in stock, but nothing in the range I need for the spindle. so have to order it in. Ive just had a quick look on the net for what spindles are made from. CK45 comes up a lot also HT steel. I'm down there again Sunday. ill have a look through his order book see what I can find.

all that's left to sort out would be the Z and X axis plate. as I said he has a bit of gauge plate that's will be good for the Z plate, but its only 9.5mm thick. I have a chunk of gauge here that's 5"x1"x 18.5" perfect for the X axis. think this will be an over kill and a bit of a waste of some good stuff.


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## blighty (Apr 6, 2018)

just a quick one....

found a place where i can get everything thing i need as to metal stuff. I can get most of the smaller bits from MJ, but it was the bigger bits that was the problem. Plus one place i found wanted £460 +vat for the spindle material. talking of spindle, been looking stuff up about that..... what do you think about using EN24T?

Still doing the design for the lathe, as i find more bits for the lathe i then have to change something then that changes something else.......:wall: one change in the angle. from what i see most slantbed's are 45deg. if i do this the lathe has to be wider to fit all the X travel. The Boxford 240 was more 55 to 60deg. if i do this, it frees  up some room and the lathe can be thinner... more compact, but the lathe bit will still be the same.


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## blighty (Jun 1, 2018)

And we're off!

Still not happy with the design of the main part of the lathe, but in the mean time the ATC is all done, so I have start with that.





as tool changers go, it's a bit of a standard one. just had a look around the old net and came up with something that should work.
As for size.... the tool holder (the hexagonal bit on the left, with out the holders, is about 8inch OD)

I load of metal turned up about 6 weeks ago, but I made a change to the size of the pulleys and don't know how big they were going to be.
ordered them a month ago and they turned up today.

Have turned up all the round stuff, apart from the main spindle. needed to wait for the pulleys to work out the main spindle. plus my lathe isn't big/sturdy enough to handle
EN24T, vibrates like you wouldn't believe. My lathe will cut it, but not 4in di and 13 inch between centres...........need a bigger lathe.


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## blighty (Jun 1, 2018)

turning for the bits in the middle. bit of milling for bolt hole etc still needed. pulleys and the piston. found a bigger lathe, so ill turn that up next week ready for the MG12.


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## blighty (Jun 12, 2018)

last week started on the shaft. 4 x 12in ish of EN24. my word thats tough stuff.






getting smaller....





starting on the tool holder, also EN24 8in x 2in





 time to fire up the grinder....





shaft finished


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## Herbiev (Jun 12, 2018)

Looking very professional.


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## oldchadders (Jun 13, 2018)

blighty said:


> this is all well and good, but what the fluff and chuff do i do now??
> 
> i know you can get a 10k pot and put it on the board to control the speed of the motor, but any ides where it would go.
> 
> ...



These motors (AFAIK) are simple dc motors. I bought one (180v dc) intending to use it on a small lathe. From what you say (and most likely in this day and age) the control is digital - analogue is much simpler and easier to fiddle around with - dc volts is dc volts - with digital, trying to interface different bits of kit is more difficult. I found on Ebay what is basically something like a drill control module ( drills etc usually have a "universal motor" which can be speed controlled with a dc supply) although I used to design such things for industrial use it is much more convenient to buy something which is designed and tested. If you can get something like that, which incorporates a speed control potentiometer, the pot will probably have its outer terminals connected to a low dc voltage and ground, rotating the pot varies the voltage on the centre pin which controls the speed. The pot can be removed and a speed control voltage applied to the connection of the centre connection and ground. I eventually gave up on this motor (because of its size and weight) and I am planning to use a 24v dc motor off an electric scooter (bought off Ebay) because it is easier to mess around with lower voltages with less need to isolate various control modules.


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## blighty (Jun 13, 2018)

oldchadders...
thanks for the info. it would of been nice to use the board from the treadmill from where the motor came from, but had a few problems using it. as you say, it was digital and we/forum couldn't work out where the 0-10v would go. Plus as it's intended for a lathe, being able to revers the motor with an M4 code is a must. I ended up buying a KBCC-225R dc controller board that should do the job. I haven't wired the motor up yet to see if it all works. as not got the Pokeys controller yet. will be ordering one this week as i need it to test the ATC when its finished........... anyone got a macro for an ATC??


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## oldchadders (Jun 13, 2018)

blighty said:


> just found this......... http://www.axiscontrols.co.uk/shop/kbcc-range/9924
> 
> not to sure with this bit......
> it says it's 240vac in, thats bits fine and the motor is 11 amps DC and again OK. however the DC output is 180v. the motor i have is rated at 220vdc would this make the motor run slower/less power. or is this another electronics thing that don't work like that.?



Slower and less power by the ratio of 180/220
!80v is roughly the dc output from half wave rectified 240v ac (ie it is only using half of the ac input ctcle, whereas you woyld get app 220v dc if it was full wave rectified (ie the controller is only using one thyristor rather than 2, the latter requiring more complex circuitry (ie more expensive).


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## oldchadders (Jun 13, 2018)

blighty said:


> just been having a look on the old intermerweb net again for Reversing DC Motor Speed Controller (yes i did copy paste that) and noticed a bit of a trend.
> 
> all the ones i found that i think are up to the job i.e. more than 11amps 3hp plus are all 240vac input and 180vdc output. maybe the motor didn't run on 240vdc when it was in the treadmill.
> 
> i might hook it all back up and see what coming out of the controller and how fast the motor is going.


The original probably used full wave rectification, with a pair of thyristors, rather than half wave with one (full wave will give a smoother operation of the motor - in practical terms you would probably not notice the difference. Reversing can be obtained simply by swapping the connections to the motor. How are you physically connecting the motor to the outside world? Pulleys, Gears? You can always adjust the ratio to increase your final output shaft speed to compensate for the lower supply voltage.
Power = 2πNT where N is speed and T is torque


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## oldchadders (Jun 13, 2018)

blighty said:


> just found this......... http://www.axiscontrols.co.uk/shop/kbcc-range/9924
> 
> not to sure with this bit......
> it says it's 240vac in, thats bits fine and the motor is 11 amps DC and again OK. however the DC output is 180v. the motor i have is rated at 220vdc would this make the motor run slower/less power. or is this another electronics thing that don't work like that.?



I've got a 180v treadmill motor which I no longer need which you can have if you want it.


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## oldchadders (Jun 13, 2018)

oldchadders said:


> I've got a 180v treadmill motor which I no longer need which you can have if you want it.



Thinking about it, I probably have a speed controller too.


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## blighty (Jun 13, 2018)

4 posts and only understood 2 of them, guess what ones 
not to good with the ins and out of the electronic stuff. my thought was to wire it all up one day and see what happends as to the rpm of the motor. then make gearing decision from there. 

drive from the motor will be pulleys, as to what sort don't know yet, but probably single V belt with 2 speed ranges.

thanks for the offer of the motor and ESC. unless you live in the UK might have a problem with posting. plus, it will live in me shed for ever and a day till i think of something to do with it.


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## oldchadders (Jun 13, 2018)

blighty said:


> 4 posts and only understood 2 of them, guess what ones
> not to good with the ins and out of the electronic stuff. my thought was to wire it all up one day and see what happends as to the rpm of the motor. then make gearing decision from there.
> 
> drive from the motor will be pulleys, as to what sort don't know yet, but probably single V belt with 2 speed ranges.
> ...



I am in the UK, near Buckingham. My thought was the 180v motor would match the output of your controller.


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## blighty (Oct 17, 2018)

The tool change is finally up and running...... ish. its not 100% but is running.

quick vid of it......


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## blighty (May 23, 2020)

18 months later finally got round to doing the "how it's done" vid. 
I think i did say it was going to be a long build.....


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## Mark Duquette (May 24, 2020)

Nice ATC i have made two of this design.  The lathe that I am currently working in is a updated Enco compact5. Just a note many modern spindles use ball bearings, two at the chuck end and one at the drive end.  The two ball bearings at the chuck end are preloaded and the one at the drive end is not.  Having the preloaded bearings close together helps maintain preload at different temperatures (specially if the housing is aluminum).

Good luck with your project


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## blighty (May 25, 2020)

already got the bearings for the spindle, have gone for the design you have suggested. two preloaded at the front and one at the back.

just need to get my a** in gear and get on with building it. I'm now thinking about a granite bed and changing the spindle disign to a d1-4 camlock.


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## Wizard69 (May 30, 2020)

it has been awhile since I dropped in.    that spindle machining must have taken forever.   Your tool indexer looks to be most interesting as is this whole build.   keep up the good work.


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## blighty (Jun 1, 2020)

using EN24 for the spindle was a bit over kill, think EN16 for the tool changer spindle would of been fine.

got me self a bigger lathe, so dont have to borrow other peoples lathes. should come in handy when it come to machining up the main spindle.
wont be making it from EN24


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