# Bridgeport is on the way



## Sshire (Jun 21, 2013)

Well, I finally found one (the one in the front.)

1967 2J head, 36" table, chrome ways, one-shot oiler. The frosting is amazing. Best I've seen.


















Should clean up nicely. Very little backlash on X and Y.

Delivery is Tuesday so I have a bunch of stuff to do. Almost finished with the new 240V line. 
The VFD is on the way as is the DRO. Since all of my tooling, etc. is R8 from the BF20, I'm good to go. I traded the BF20 for the rigging all the way to the basement shop.

Watch for pix and videos on Tuesday nite.


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## moya034 (Jun 21, 2013)

Nice score!

What VFD are you using?


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## metalmad (Jun 21, 2013)

Hi Sshire
That is a lovely Machine
With a good DRO set up It will be a thing of Joy.
Pete


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## Sshire (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks guys. I'm pretty excited!
The VFD is a GS2-22PO from Automation Direct. 2hp. 240v 3 phase out.
I was going to use the DRO that is on the BF20 mill and get new scales. Not enough of a price difference to not get a brand new Easson from DRO Pros.


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## jwcnc1911 (Jun 21, 2013)

Sweet, that shop looks familiar... it wouldn't be in Ohio would it?


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## aarggh (Jun 22, 2013)

Nice one Stan! I can feel the anticipation mate!

cheers, Ian


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## Sshire (Jun 22, 2013)

That would be Cook Machine and Tool in Sickklerville, NJ


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## Swifty (Jun 22, 2013)

Nice looking machine, those hard chromed slide ways have stood up well over the years. Enjoy it!

Paul.


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## kvom (Jun 22, 2013)

So now your problem is whether to control the speed with the vari-speed head or the VFD.  :-0

The big handwheel on the front will be the first thing to go.  Totally useless except to bang your head.


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## Sshire (Jun 22, 2013)

I thought that was the function of that handwheel. A place to bang your head when you screw up a part.:wall:


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## moya034 (Jun 22, 2013)

kvom said:


> So now your problem is whether to control the speed with the vari-speed head or the VFD.


The speed should be controlled with the vari-speed head only, not the VFD. In fact, a rotary phase converter should really be be used for this machine instead of a VFD.


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## Sshire (Jun 22, 2013)

I intend to control the speed with the vari speed head.
Reasons please for rotary phase converter other than
1. Noise is good for you
2.  Haven't spent enough money

Seriously, why would you want a rotary phase converter over a VFD?
Inquiring minds want to know.


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## MachineTom (Jun 22, 2013)

There is no reason to not use the VFD for most speed changes. I leave the 2J at 1200 rpm 90% of the time. Move it up to 4K for some milling and drilling, use backgear for the big bits, and 3-6" insert heads, and large tapping. Machine is a bit quieter at 1200, regardless of the vfd setting, plenty of torque for 1/2 drills running at one third motor speed. Then crank the VFD up to do 2K rpm for a carbide 3/8em. 

My speed control knob is a hex, 12:00 is 60Hz, one flat of the hex adds/subtracts  15Hz, 2 flats 30, 3 flat 45. Chips tell me if the speed is right. I have a hand tach but rarely use it.


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## Sshire (Jun 22, 2013)

Tom
That's a great idea for the speed control knob. I'll certainly "borrow" it.
The VFD's ability to soft start a motor certainly extends the motor's life. Dynamic braking is another plus.


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## dreeves (Jun 22, 2013)

Stan, great to see your moving up in machines. Now you can make bigger engines.  

Dave


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## Sshire (Jun 22, 2013)

Kvom

I'll probably leave the BP switch but render it INOP. I ordered the control panel remote cable so the VFD can be out of the way with the control   Panel in a convenient place. Have to look at the machine once it's in place and figure that out. 

Dave

I can make smaller, but more precise, engines. Seems like its getting time for breakfast at the diner.


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## kvom (Jun 22, 2013)

I made a holder for the control panel that's clamped to the same arm that holds the DRO.  Small block of Al with a pocket to hold the panel and holes in the back for the cable and a mounting screw.


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## Sshire (Jun 23, 2013)

Kvom
That will be the first project for the BP. Nicely done.


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## moya034 (Jun 23, 2013)

Sshire said:


> Seriously, why would you want a rotary phase converter over a VFD?
> Inquiring minds want to know.



The vari speed heads have a rather complex transmission inside of them to provide speed control. This transmission is engineered to expect input from a motor running at a constant speed and torque.  The transmission provides a full range of speeds with infinite control between them. The machine is not engineered to run slower or faster then this.

The output of VFD's is not 100% sinusoidal. To maintain full specifications, this motor wants a clean 60 hz 3ph signal.

The VFD's are fantastic for belt driven equipment like my South Bend lathe. It allows a full range of speeds, and there is no transmission to suffer from incorrect input speeds. I remember your original plan had to get a belt driven Bridgeport, which would fall under good VFD application.

If you insist on using the VFD for the vari speed head, make sure it is configured to allow only 60hz output. Do NOT use the pot, disable it in the settings. Also, I would not make use of the dynamic braking feature or the dynamic start up... The transmission was not designed for that. Go from 0hz to 60hz with no ramp up. I can't guarantee it'll work well and not break anything, but this is what you want to do if you go this route.

A rotary phase converter can be easily made from a surplus 3 phase motor that is pull started. You would still need to get magnetic starters for both the RPC and the mill.


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## moya034 (Jun 23, 2013)

All you need is three buttons, start, stop, reverse... as impressive as it looks the control panel is total unecessary, a waste of money, and I would say it detracts from the classic styling of the machine, as well.

Leave on the original buttons, and wire them to the VFD, or a magnetic starter should you ever get a RPC.


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## Sshire (Jun 23, 2013)

Moya
Thanks for the info.  The interesting point is that many replies to this question (Kvom, Machine Tom, etc) are from people who are doing just the opposite. Using the pot, soft motor start, dynamic braking. I assume their mills haven't broken.
I understand that RPC, a 90 year old technology is well proven. I did call Hardinge/Bridgeport and while they said, as did you, to vary the speed with the mill for maximum torque, many of their customers are using VFDs and have had no issues. The tech said that the "old"  motors (as opposed to their newer, VFD friendly  ones)  can be run over speed for short periods. When I asked him to define a short period he said he wouldn't do it for more than 15-30 minutes at a time.


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## moya034 (Jun 23, 2013)

Sshire said:


> Moya
> Thanks for the info.  The interesting point is that many replies to this question (Kvom, Machine Tom, etc) are from people who are doing just the opposite.



The way I look at it, there are many things you can do to a machine that probably won't hurt it but you never know what the cumulative effect is. Being that we don't run production shops, you may very well never see an ill-fated cumulative effect from a certain procedure.

I do not claim to be an expert on the topic, and if I come across that way, without making any disclaimers, forgive me. I have, however, done quite a bit of extensive research as I have a vari-speed mill myself, have been playing with electricity and electronics since the 4th grade, and have spoken on the phone at length with a Republic Lagun engineer about this very topic.

Most mills of this type have plastic gears in them that are designed to fail if something goes wrong. You don't really want to replace these due to cost and complexitiy.


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## cheepo45 (Jun 23, 2013)

Nice find, Stan. I'm glad to see that Cook Machinery is still around. I used to go there all the time, but it's been 8 or 10 years since I've been there. Nice people!
        cheepo45


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## Sshire (Jun 23, 2013)

Moya
I really appreciate your take on this. I'm always open to information. 
I also think you hit the most important point. I (can't speak for others) probably use my mill less in a month than a production, or even a job shop, does in a shift. It might be interesting to have an hour meter on the mill.
Your point is correct. I would probably would never (fingers crossed) have a problem given the low usage.
That said, I did order the Bridgeport rebuild manual and also have Bridgeport's maintenance manual and with the step by step directions, should be able to fix anything. I think of a Bridgeport like a 1960's automobile. Easy to fix. No electronics. No computer diagnosis required.


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## kvom (Jun 23, 2013)

The only issue with overspeeding the motor is heat, and 20 minutes is a very long time to run on these mills at a single time.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the VFD at 60Hz and using the head to control RPM most of the time.  But If you have a small drill and want higher spindle speed you can raise the VFD frequency without worry.


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## Sshire (Jun 23, 2013)

Kvom

I can't image running at high speed for more than a minute or 2. Stopping to replace the broken 1/16" end mills should allow the motor to cool.


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## kvom (Jun 24, 2013)

The only time I've run my mill's motor for more than a couple of minutes has been sizing some large plates with a fly cutter.


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## vascon2196 (Jun 24, 2013)

That is great news! Enjoy the new toy!


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## ChooChooMike (Jun 24, 2013)

Sshire said:


> I thought that was the function of that handwheel. A place to bang your head when you screw up a part.:wall:


I thought it was the steering wheel ?? :hDe:


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## Sshire (Jun 25, 2013)

It's home!!!
Full report and videos tomorrow. A few teasers to hold you over.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VUBS8w7Bjw[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJkZx7CFgCg[/ame]


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## aarggh (Jun 26, 2013)

Awesome Stan, exciting stuff eh mate!

cheers, Ian


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## Sshire (Jun 26, 2013)

Yesterday morning I drove to Cook Machine to follow the Bridgeport to its new home.
Jim and Tom Cook know more about machine tools than anyone I've met and I spent too much time with Tom listening to his dissertations on "Textron Bridgeports", Why Oliver Tool and Cutter Grinders are exceptional pieces of engineering and a quick look at a Monarch 10EE that had just recently come in.. Before we took off, he gave me an original Bridgeport manual and a color brochure (circa 1962) of the Series 1.

Jim and Tom loaded the mill onto the truck and strapped it down. I followed most of they way and then led Jim through the back roads to my house.

The traverse of the yard was without incident. Nothing torn up, no ruts no divots and not a broken branch.

After having seen many Youtube videos of "self-moved" Bridgeports with the mill owner, 7 friends, a case of beer, a borrowed trailer and an engine hoist, I was more than a little apprehensive about one guy moving 2000+ pounds into the shop and putting it in the opening I had cut in the shop's wooden floor so the mill would be directly on concrete. This was, obviously, not his first rodeo.

Off it came via the crane onto a pallet jack. He rolled it over to the door, and placed and moved wooden blocking like a puzzle to make the 4" height difference. Onto 2 pieces of steel pipe as rollers. I was the designated pipe mover and placer. At Jim's direction, I'd angle a pipe and with one push, the mill began the 90 degree turn. Move the pipe again. I was directed to place the pipe at some angle that he knew instinctively, another push and the mill almost turned by itself. 

I had made the cutout in the wooden floor (top of floor to slab is only 1.5") 6" larger than the mill base. I measured it last night and he put it in that opening only ¼" off center, side to side and ½" off, front to back.

Total time from the time the truck started across the lawn until done: 1 hour 8 minutes!!
Nothing like a professional.

So here is the video. Enjoy.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tINc3jxAPlM[/ame]


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## moya034 (Jun 26, 2013)

I'm curious how the machine made it off the pallet jack and on to the floor. I'm also curious what it costs to hire someone for a job like that.


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## Swifty (Jun 26, 2013)

Thanks for the video, I have never seen a Bridgeport table with only 2 "T" slots in it before. What a lovely part of the country you live in.

Paul.


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## Sshire (Jun 26, 2013)

Moya
The mill was pushed up to 4" elevation on the jack so the rear of the  base was against the edge. 
Jacked up and 2x4s and 4x4s went under between the forks. Jack lowered. That got the bottom of the base casting 2" above the floor. Jack removed. Some sort of 6 foot long handle with steel wheels and a hooked end (I forget the name) under the front of the casting. Jim lifted the front while I slid a pipe in. The same routine with the same device lifting the rear of the casting. I put another pipe under. The a push and it rolled right in. Move mill about 8", and keep moving front pipe to the rear.
The rigging cost was $350.00 which I think is very low compared to the riggers I checked. Of course, I did buy the machine from them so it is a bit of "value added" 

Swifty
I think both the 32" and 36" tables are 2-slotters. Someone please correct me if that's incorrect.
I am quite taken with the Northeastern part of this country. Seasonal changes. My brother is in Arizona and it's hot and sunny nearly every day. Boring. It's wonderful looking out of the shop doors and seeing deer and the occasional fox wandering along the stream.


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## vascon2196 (Jun 27, 2013)

Stan...this video was amazing. I really enjoyed the time and effort you put into that video. I am currently on the hunt for a Bridgeport and having just visited the American Precision Museum in Vermont to see the 1st Bridgeport I cannot wait until I find one (or have the $$$).

After watching your video I am less concerned on how the machine will make it through my backyard and in its new home.

Thank you for that video!!!


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## Sshire (Jun 27, 2013)

Chris,
Thanks for the,more than kind, comments.
The museum is on my summer road trip list.
The invoice for BP #1 was $995.00.


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