# SX3 DRO Kit



## Cedge (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm posting this thread to keep from hijacking jlmanatee's thread. I just placed an order for a DRO kit designed specifically for the SX3 mill. I looked at a number of the available options, such as Shumatec, Shooting Star and a few others. I finally settled on *the kit offered by seller "toolssales"* on Ebay and did the buy it now last night.

Most of the systems I looked at had resolutions of .001 - .0005 with repeatability of .001 inches. They ranged in prices from $600 to $1000.00 depending on the options they offered. At $500.00, plus shipping, this guy is offering a glass scale system, fitted to the SX3 with resolution to .00004 (.001 mm) with all the options available on the higher priced kits found elsewhere. His display is a 3 window 8 place system insteadof the normal 3 x 7.

Let's see... high end components, higher resolution, more functions, cheaper price and no install mods required. I'll post more as the kit arrives and I begin the install. I just thought I'd share what appears to be one heck of a deal on DRO's.

Steve


----------



## jlmanatee (Jan 21, 2009)

Gahh!  :'( Where was this seller when I started the project? Looks nice and the price is O.K. too. 

-Jack


----------



## Cedge (Jan 21, 2009)

Jack
I know exactly what you mean. I paid a tad over $400.00 for a chinese caliper style scale system with a very bare bones display sometime back. I spotted this system a few weeks back but wanted to go to Cabin Fever and see what might be available there before buying. 

I'll be using the old DRO's on the two lathes and probably the little X2 mill, so it's not going to waste. Just got to order a couple of scales and some cords.

Steve


----------



## Bernd (Jan 21, 2009)

Steve,

A point of information here. This may also help some of the newer members with decision making on getting DRO's.

What got my attention was the specs, plus or minus .001mm (or 400,000th of an inch) at 20C or 68F.

Can you keep your shop at exactly 680F? If you can't then this speck is out the door and of no use in making a part. How do I know about this. Were I worked they made parts with a tolerance in the millionth of an inch. It was done in temperature controlled rooms and the machine had chiller units on there hydraulic systems to keep the temperature in check. Also, I question the need for such accuracy in making a model part, especially a steam engines that needs loose tolerances to begin with. Perhaps if you are building an IC you would need closer tolerances. All ferrous and non-ferrous metals do change size to varying temps. I'm not trying to belittle your purchase. I'm just passing some info along for what it's worth

But hey, the price was right and fit to what you were looking for so why not.

Bernd


----------



## jlmanatee (Jan 21, 2009)

Steve, 
 I thought about the real "need" for those kind of tolerances too. Makes me feel a little better about the Shumatech / Chinese scale solution I'm using.  But what the heck, sure would have saved time to have a ready-made solution.

- Jack


----------



## Cedge (Jan 21, 2009)

Jack
I'm not sure I'll ever really "need" those tolerances either, but after playing with bolt circle calculations, it became obvious that there were going to be some "odd" vectors to the solutions. I'm not putting down any other DRO make, but I was a bit surprised at what was offered at the price. It only made sense for me to buy as much capability as possible, if only to get the bang and buck thing working in my favor.

I've been happily using far less than what Shumatec has to offer and would probably have been quite pleased with their system too. Money well spent, either way.... eh?

Steve


----------



## Mainer (Jan 21, 2009)

While that level of accuracy may be somewhat academic in a home shop, it sure doesn't hurt. After one factors in the assorted errors of +/- one resolution count in the display, the error in the scale itself, and such, some amount of "overkill" is desirable to ensure one reliably gets the accuracy one really wants.


----------



## Cedge (Jan 21, 2009)

If you look on the sale page, the guy also offers other size scales. I'll be looking at the quality when mine arrives and then do a write up on what I see. Could become a cheaper source for better quality DRO's than have been commonly available up until now. I hope that is the case. 

Steve


----------



## Mike N (Jan 21, 2009)

Have you checked out the DRO's that this guy has?

http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php

I have the lathe DRO & 2 of my friends have the Mill DRO's

They are accurate & the price sure is right!


----------



## Cedge (Jan 28, 2009)

Update....
Still awaiting the arrival of the DRO kit. Contacted Seller yesterday to check on progress. As I was writing to him, an email popped in my in box from him. He was asking for confirmation that this order was going on an X3 mill. There was apparently some confusion over another order which would not be installed on an X3 and he wanted to make sure both parties got the right kits.

I confirmed the SX3 install and within 10 minutes he responded offering to send the install and operator manuals so I could study them in advance of the shipment. I accepted his offer and this evening they arrived by email. So far he has readily responded to my questions, each time, within an hour of asking them. Never got that from a US tool seller on Ebay. Fingers crossed and thumbs twiddling for now.

Steve


----------



## bmuss51 (Feb 6, 2009)

i have an sx3 that i added a glass scale readout to and i had bought it off of ebay . and at the time he was called dro trader. at that time which was almost 2 yr ago and paid about $450 for it shipped straight from china. and sense i have it installed i have not been disappointed in the setup at all. and yes it reads down to the millionths, but a piece of elec. tape over the last digit solved that problem. and i have found it to be one of the best purchases i could have made.
 the install was very time consuming, and i had to figure out how to mount it. and i had to tare down the x and y for drilling the mount holes. and because i have added a power feed to the x, i had to mount the y axis unit to the hand crank side of the base. and i had to make my own mount for the y.
 i have some pic's of the install, but can't figure out how to post them in this reply. but anyhow i started off using a piece of alum angle to get the side straight because of the z crank notch in the casting. the i was able to make another angle piece to get the distance needed to reach from the x table slide to the distance needed for the readout and needed to give clearance for the table travel. and as for the x , it was a simple install on the back side of the table.
 probably the next mod i want to do is add z power feed after i add a 4" block to the z at it's mount point to give more z travel. and i don't believe this will effect any thing else. but making model engines with some of there setups i found i need more z travel to be able to drill and bore some holes. like on a 1/2 scale motor i'm working on now.


----------



## Cedge (Feb 6, 2009)

Bmuss
Thanks for the input. I'm still waiting for the guys in hong Kong to return to work from the Chinese New Years Celebration so they can get the kit shipped. I've had communication with them and other than a bit of wear on my patience, I'm certainly looking forward to getting the kit and installing it. 

Steve


----------



## geoffh (Feb 9, 2009)

Hi All,
I too have a SX3 and would like to add a DRO. I like the look of the 3 axis readout in Mike N reply 189$. Does anybody know if it is available in the UK.
Regards Geoff


----------



## lugnut (Feb 9, 2009)

Geoff. that $189 is for the readout unit only. The scales are extra. Almost another $180
Mel


----------



## pete (Feb 13, 2009)

Not to be picky but resolution only means how many numbers are to the right of the decimal point. The real judge is, or should be quoted under accuracy and REPETEABILITY. I'm shopping for a high end Newall 4 axis dro right now. For a dro display and scales that are going to cost over 3 grand you might be amazed at what Newall quotes as obtainable accuracy and repeteability.These numbers are not near as good as you might think. If you don't beleave me then check out Newalls web site and look up the specs on sperosyn and microsyn scales. Doesn't matter if the display reads to .000000000001 if it does not have accurate and repeteable scales, And a display that can properly process that information, then all those digits don't mean a whole lot. I hope you don't think I'm trying to ruin your day, I'm not. It's just that too many people confuse resolution with accuracy, There not the same thing at all.

Pete


----------



## Cedge (Feb 13, 2009)

Hey Pete...
When I can have more functionality with increased accuracy and better components for fewer dollars, then I'm all for it. Resolution is not the selling point. In fact the last window will probably be taped over just to avoid potential confusion. As long as it keeps me within the .001 +/- zone I'm not going to be unhappy. I will however have $200.00 in my pocket that I wouldn't have if I was buying almost any of the other caliper scale or rack units I've encountered. That IS a selling point.

Steve


----------



## pete (Feb 13, 2009)

Cedge, sorry most of what I wrote wasn't directed at you, I just see far too many people that confuse accuracy with resolution and then are not happy with what they bought. 

Pete


----------



## Cedge (Feb 13, 2009)

Pete
No problem. I've just gotten a bit of flack over this purchase from several sources, both on the specs and the fact that it is a Chinese purchase. Thankfully, none of the negatives came from this board. Sorry if I misunderstood your intent. 

On a different note, I just got confirmation of shipment from the seller. Apparently he took it upon himself to pay for expedited Fed Ex shipment and I will have the DRO kit in hand by 10:30 Monday. I guess he appreciated my patience with the long Holiday delay. 

Steve


----------



## pete (Feb 13, 2009)

Cedge. yeah I know exactly about the flak and chinese tools. I own a fair ammount of them, Most of it pretty good, But I also own a Seig c-6 lathe that must have been made the day after the Chinese new year, And they also told the guy he was fired at the end of the day. Then they gave him my lathe to machine and assemble.

Tailstock points uphill .009 in 2 inches, Cross slide is out in both directions, Milling table is warped. Stopped checking at that point as my blood pressure won't take much more. So yeah you can get good and bad chinese products just like goods made here. Good luck with the dro, Will be interesting to see how it checks out.

Pete


----------



## Cedge (Feb 13, 2009)

Pete
There is no doubt that quality varies among the Chinese machines. I've been real lucky with both my C2 and now the new C4 lathes, as well as the SX3 mill. I paid a bit more for them than some people do, but Micromark and Travers Tools also paid a bit more for their better fit and finish too. 

I measured for inherent taper on the C4, this week, to determine head alignment. It came in at .00045 over 10 inches, according to the digital micrometer. I strongly suspect that error was introduced by the tail stock, rather than the headstock. I've got nothing to ***** about....yet....LOL

Steve


----------



## pete (Feb 13, 2009)

Cedge. that last sentance, Very little printed but a lot said. I'm working on a deal for a new lathe, Only dealer is in Quebec, Over 2500 miles away. Lathe is made by Weiss Machinery, Nanjing China. Jasonb a member here owns one and pmed me with a very favourable report on it. Only lathe of this size and weight that has power cross feed. Hope to order next month, Will probably use c-6 for uuuug!!! wood, Or fix some of it's accuracy problems and use it strictly for grinding, Still buying Chinese tools just very carefull now.

Pete


----------



## SmoggyTurnip (Feb 14, 2009)

pete  said:
			
		

> Only dealer is in Quebec, Over 2500 miles away.



Not too far from me. What is the name of the dealer?


----------



## pete (Feb 14, 2009)

SmoggyTurnip, Dealer is GARANT MACHINERY, Phone no. 418-837-5832 ask for Yves, Web site www.garantmachinerie.com Lathe I'm ordering is not shown on their web site But is exactly the same (except colour) as www.warco.co.uk shows on their web site. Lathe model no. WM-280V-F, Lathe they sell comes with MT2 tailstock, So I'm special ordering one with MT3. This is the only lathe (In this size, 11 x27.5) And weight, That comes with power cross feed, Or at least that I know about. 

Yves seems like a real good guy to deal with, Fast with e-mail questions, Willing to deal with special orders,ect. Only U.S. dealer I've found on the net, Is in california, And is just setting up his business. So can't ship equipment yet. Lathe is built by WEISS MACHINERY Nanjing, China. Specs. so far look pretty good.

Sorry about getting away from the original topic.

Pete


----------



## pete (Feb 14, 2009)

Forgot to add, Yves is fully flluent in english so no problems there either. Again Cedge sorry for horning in on your original post.

Pete


----------



## Cedge (Feb 14, 2009)

Pete
No apology required. I'm the one that took it in an off topic direction anyway.

Steve


----------



## pete (Feb 14, 2009)

Cedge, Sorry and yeah a apolligy was required, As I try to be very carefull on what I say, And do on these boards. (Dosen't always work tho) I'm sick and tired of people getting into B****n,and moaning, and P*****g contests over the slightest little thing. Everyone has, And is entitled to their own opinion, If you don't agree well so what, move on. I think most people are here to learn, And talk with people of similar interest's. If I need an arguement, All I need to do is tell the wife that her butt does look fat. Life is far to short for that. 

Pete


----------



## gmac (Feb 14, 2009)

before we go back on topic..... ;D

http://www.weiss.com.cn/products/wm280vf.php

Garry


----------



## bmuss51 (Feb 17, 2009)

if you got your readout, i thought a couple of pic's could save you alot of hassle in nounting the y scale . and you will see that i mounted it on the right side. that is because i have a powerfeed unit on the left side for the x travel . and because of that there was not enough space and still have full travel in x and y .


----------



## Cedge (Feb 17, 2009)

Bmuss
Thanks for the photos. I will probably have to do the same mount for the same reason. 

The kit arrived on schedule, yesterday and first looks are impressive. The mounts are not stamped metal, but are made of heavy aluminum. Unfortunately I won't be able to begin the install for a few days, due to previous obligations.

Steve


----------



## bmuss51 (Feb 18, 2009)

if you look at the top back of the machine you will find a 4 outlet elec. box that i added .and the reason for this is that i can turn on-off everything hooked to the mill with the master switch. you may have noticed a light mounted on the left side which is a nice add-on for getting more light to the cutting area.this was a craftsman light that has a pt.# under drill press parts. first pick a drill press that has a movable light and then look up the pt#. and from what i found this is the best and also the cheapest way to add a light. which i believe cost around $12-14 delivered. as for the bulb i found a ceiling fan light bulb works the best because of the vibration. so back to the elec. box. the one plug is used for the light and the next is used for the readout, and the other is used for the powerfeed.
 now for a ? to this forum.
 you might see the powerfeed i have installed, but i am getting tired of the sys. it uses to switch directions. by turning off the feed rate and then switching directions before i can turn on the feedrate again. and i saw in a video somewhere that this can be overcome. and what i mean is to be able to switch directions and not have to play with the feed speed switch. so can anyone describe how this is done?  maybe a couple of pic's would help me understand or a drawing of where the change has to happen!


----------



## Cedge (Feb 18, 2009)

Bmuss

The attached photo shows the approach I used to conquer the lighting problem. The "Flying Saucer" is from Northern tool and was heavily modified to fit the quill column. It required an aluminum collar to be fiitted to its back side once the opening was made large enough to fit.

The Light bar in the rear is from Harbor Freight. I power them both with a single small 4.5 volt wall wart transformer. 

The power feed thing is an easy one. The rheostat that controls the speed also has a switch built into it, for reset. If you look at the component, you'll note there are several terminals around the base. Those control the speed. There are also two terminals on the end of the rheostat, for the switch. Simple jumper those two terminals and the switch is out of the system. Once removed, the power feed direction can be switched, at will and instantly, without having to reset the travel speed. 

Now..... if I can just rewire the directional switch to a normal toggle switch I'll have things like I want them. That huge honking switch they installed is a bit annoying, especially with the monster detents . 

Steve


----------



## oldguy (Jun 6, 2009)

Thought I'd pull this thread up to the top. Did you get the DRO installed? If so, how is it working? There are probably a lot of us "thrifty types" out here wondering.

Glenn


----------



## 1hand (Nov 16, 2009)

After seeing this post on a web search on Sat. morning, I have the DRO kit ordered by noon. Hopefully yours is working for you, its not too late for me to cancel mine...........lol


----------



## Cedge (Nov 16, 2009)

1hand
I've had zero problems and lots of satisfaction from the unit I installed. Several others have made the same leap since I started this thread and to my knowledge at this time, not one has been heard to be unhappy with it. 

I can assure you I wouldn't want to be without it, now that I've used it enough to get comfortable with it. I suspect you'll soon agree.

Steve


----------



## 1hand (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks for the info. Its leaving Hong Kong today. We start our 9 day deer season this Saturday, so hopefully it will be here when I return. May have to come home early from deer camp..........lol


----------



## Steve_53 (Nov 30, 2009)

I've just completed mounting my "toolsales" DRO on my SX3, and I've got to say I am pretty impressed with the hardware! 

The installation instructions do leave a bit to be desired, but all we're machinists here and we should be able to figure out this mechanical stuff by ourselves, right? 

All kidding aside, the only issue that I have is that the provided operation instructions (appear to be for some (different) version of the display unit; some of my front panel buttons don't all match those in the manual - most of the differences are just changes to the "icons", but I've also got a couple of buttons that are not in the instructions at all. 

I don't know what they are for.


----------



## 1hand (Nov 30, 2009)

I just started hanging on the Z axis last night. Started there cause it looked to be the simplest one to put on. Yeah the instructions are something to be desired. Did you guys remove your mill tables to do the drilling and tapping? I will be cordless drilling them and looks to be a bit tight back there for that. Sure wish I had another drill press for this but I don't. May have to drag the table along with me to work and use one there. But don't want the coworkers there to know what I'm capable of doing...............LOL


----------



## Steve_53 (Dec 1, 2009)

I had pulled the table & saddle from my SX3 (after marking the locations for the X axis scale and the Y head bracket using a transfer punch and a combination of indicators, shims & clamps) and drilled the holes on my drill press. I did a partial re-assemble to locate and mark the locations for the X axis head and the Y axis scale blocks and drilled the X axis head holes into the saddle on the drill press. The hole for the lower end of the Z axis scale and the holes for the Y axis scale blocks were drilled "in place" using a cordless drill.


----------



## Cedge (Dec 1, 2009)

It took a quite bit of bodily contortion, but I installed mine without having to disassemble the table. I did move the machine to my hydraulic lift table so I could work all the way around it. That proved to be my best idea of that day.

Steve


----------



## 1hand (Dec 1, 2009)

Ok got the z and y axis mounted up. Thought I would try them out before I go to bed and something isn't right. Both are reading like 5" when I only move the table or mill head 1" ??? In the message board it says ABS. What have I got wrong?


----------



## Cedge (Dec 1, 2009)

1Hand
You'll need to go into the set up mode and adjust the movement. It's a bit confusing in the manual but you'll quickly find the right ratio by trial and error. If memory serves, mine is set at "1" but I'll check that if you need me to do so. Stew might remember what he is was set for, better than me.... 

Steve


----------



## 1hand (Dec 1, 2009)

Oh boy dont know what I got my self into now just want somthing so I didnt have to count hand turns. Thanks for the help. What part of the setup is it were you change that number. Ive been looking at the manual but its all pretty greek to me, just makes my head hurt so far......


----------



## 1hand (Dec 1, 2009)

I think I got it........I went into linear error and entered 4000000 and got the y axis pretty close, with a steel rule anyway. Hand wheels are still off and still have to install the x axis yet. Got y axis on without having to remove the table. Still have to check run out and shim and tighten up then I can just play the that number to Dial it in..RIGHT??? I wonder why that number is high? It was off by about 4" so I started with 4 and kept adding zeros til it got pretty close. I know I'll have a pile of questions before this is all said and done but 
I sure do thank you guys for the help in advance!!!!!!!!! :bow: :bow:
Hopefully I'm not in over my head yet........its just getting fun.

Thanks guys, Matt.


----------



## Steve_53 (Dec 2, 2009)

1hand,

You need to set the scale resolution for each of the three scales. For the scales that came with my system, the correct setting is 1&#956;m (1.00).

I'd suggest that you reset the LINEAR ERROR COMPENSATION back to 0, and continue into the setup menu 'till you get to RESOULUTION.

From the (so-called) instructions:

2.7 Scale Resolution
Resolution options: 0.05&#956;m, 0.1&#956;m, 0.2&#956;m, 0.5&#956;m, 1&#956;m, 2&#956;m, 5&#956;m, 10&#956;m, 20&#956;m, 50&#956;m.

0 After entering SETUP, press or until message-window displays RESOLUTE;

1 Press Enter , X-window, Y-window and Z-window displays resolution of each axis separately. The message-window displays SEL AXIS, indicating the next step is to select axis.

2 Axes selection
Press X to change linear scale resolution of X-axis. Numbers on X-window flash;
Press Y to change linear scale resolution of Y-axis. Numbers on Y-window flash;
Press Z to change linear scale resolution of Z-axis. Numbers on Z-window flash.

3 Press or to scroll through 0.05, 0.10, 0.20, 0.50,1.00, 2.00, 5.00, 10.00, 20.00, 50.00.
As the right resoluion displayed, press Enter to confirm your selection and return to SEL AXISstate. Press AC to cancel your selection.

Hope his helps...

Steve


----------



## 1hand (Dec 2, 2009)

Steve;

Thanks a million reset and change the other to 1 and presto, works like a dream. Now to tackle the x axis install tonight.


----------



## Cedge (Dec 2, 2009)

Steve...
Thanks for covering for my memory lapse. I was going to have to pull out the manual to recall how to get back into the set up mode....LOL

Steve


----------



## 1hand (Dec 4, 2009)

Well here she is. Sure is going to be nice. The install went very well even though I only have one arm. Now to figure out how to hang some sorta DRO on the lathe. Have scales and a display just need to make some mounts. Thanks alot guys for helping me out. :bow:


----------



## Cedge (Dec 4, 2009)

1hand....
The lack of a hand isn't considered a valid excuse on HMEM. Bogstandard worked one handed until only recently and his projects were best described as simply astounding. He's become downright scary with two paws to play with. Go for it!! We'll all be here to lend you a hand when you need it....(grin)

Steve


----------



## GordTopps (Dec 5, 2009)

Unfortunately the kit from "toolssales" is not on ebay anymore  :redface2:
I was going to go for this one.
Gordy


----------



## 1hand (Dec 5, 2009)

I went and looked. Its showing more than 10 available.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-axis-DRO-Axis...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a50cda52a

Matt


----------



## GordTopps (Dec 5, 2009)

Thanks for that link.
I couldn't get to it before, don't know why. ???
Gordy


----------



## GordTopps (Apr 2, 2010)

Steve
I managed to order the DRO, have had it delivered and now it is fitted.

Will post pics as soon as I get my camera sorted.

Regarding the Chinglish instructions, did you manage to figure any of them out.
I am specifically referring to the Auto Edge Detection ( p 32 in the users guide .... what a misnomer!!)
I cannot figure out which button you are supposed to press when you find the first edge (I have tried all the buttons but nothing seems to work).

I have been reduced to doing it the long hand way, setting the axis to zero on edge detect, add the radius of the detector head, reset zero, that then gives the datum of zero for the respective axis, you can then measure the work and divide it by 2 to find the centre.

Hope you have had better luck than me, or maybe someone else has, pls feel free to chirp in with comments.

I have watched all the videos in http://www.dropros.com/Digital_Readout_Videos.htm DRO PROS and found them helpful.

Regards
Gordy


----------



## Kermit (Apr 2, 2010)

Not having progressed to this mod yet; I'd like to know something about the way these kits operate.

Is the 'zero' you set permenant in any way? Do you have to set another zero, before the first one goes away? Does this setting persist between power off and next days power on?

Simple things, but I'm doing my best to try to understand any difference in capability between these affordable kits and the name brand stuff.
Thanks,
Kermit


----------



## Cedge (Apr 2, 2010)

Gordy
Since I tend to work from the center point of a work piece on the mill, I've not really used the auto edge feature. I just pop in the old fashioned wiggler, zero from two directions for each axis and divide by 2....... Dead centered every time.

Kermit
The unit functions exactly as the name brand units do. Zeusrekining visited shortly after i installed mine and he was astounded that it did everything the ones they use in their machine shop for so little money. 

It does retain inputs, even after being powered down and yes... you can alter. I'm not sure the "permanent zero" would be all that desirable since we change between different parts so often. However, with work stops it would be easy enough to establish a "zero" throughout a series of identical parts.

My favorite feature has been the bolt circle and the ability to evenly space holes on a line at any angle of origin. There is still much to learn as this thing has a number of features I've yet to need.

Still a happy owner
Steve


----------

