# my tiny ic



## oneKone (Jul 25, 2013)

well after about 3 plus years ago when i built this:




 I wanted to build something else. soon after i finished it work picked up and i had no free time left (after work) until now! i wanted something that would show a mechanical side of running but to my liking. 

its finally quietened down now and i have Fridays off so i thought id try to build a tiny ic. i asked my boss if i could learn a new machine so he put me on a 5 axis mazak, our "senior" machinist said i could machine parts for the tiny so i started the process.













the machine i used is a MAZAK INTEGREX 100 II Y, iv gotta tell ya its difficult to learn on coming from a 3 axis machine. the way you program it is totally different (to me). 

i still have a ways to go completing the parts iv made, head, con rod but so far its been fun. i am going to change the design buy have an enclosed engine block, i know most people will hate this considering I'm changing it a bit but hey its all in good terms. I'm a bit too sick at the moment to work on it but next Friday ill start again.


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Jul 25, 2013)

Nice looking parts. Your boss is a good guy for lending you the equipment.


----------



## gus (Jul 25, 2013)

stevehuckss396 said:


> Nice looking parts. Your boss is a good guy for lending you the equipment.



Hi Steve,
Welcome from faraway Singapore where home machinists are very rare.

Wish I have same boss too.

The truth was I ran a shop with full compliment of machine tools for 20 years and Poor Gus just had to time to go on to shop floor. After office hours Gus is 3/4 dead and time to go home.That was 13 years ago. Laid off generously and machine tools gone.

Today I only have a one wall, three open sided mini balcony machine shop .Fortunately here in Singapore,its summer time through out and rainfall not too heavy.
But I have rust problems.

Please post video when engine runs.


----------



## oneKone (Jul 26, 2013)

he is a awesome boss. he lets me use manual/cnc machines. I think he's just happy I have a passion for using the machines. I'm still a young guy and pretty new to the machining world (6 years) so its good I get to learn new techniques.

I don't know when I'll finish the motor but there will be all the steps and the first run.

 I'm also thinking about winding my own miniature ignition coil. I should only need 150-250 turns secondary and 10-20 turns primary for 5-8 kV. I'm just so excited to try all new ideas on this motor!!


----------



## gus (Jul 26, 2013)

chris001 said:


> he is a awesome boss. he lets me use manual/cnc machines. I think he's just happy I have a passion for using the machines. I'm still a young guy and pretty new to the machining world (6 years) so its good I get to learn new techniques.
> 
> I don't know when I'll finish the motor but there will be all the steps and the first run.
> 
> I'm also thinking about winding my own miniature ignition coil. I should only need 150-250 turns secondary and 10-20 turns primary for 5-8 kV. I'm just so excited to try all new ideas on this motor!!



Hi Chris,
HT Coil.
Please keep us posted. Meanwhile I do with an antique HT Coil robbed from another antique car.Planned to wind my own coil but too many hobbies.


----------



## oneKone (Aug 2, 2013)

so i went into work today and finished the head and con-rod and made a cylinder and cylinder sleeve. 

so i faced the head and drilled the valve holes to size using  a spotting drill.



iv decided to have the cylinder and crank case in two parts. i made the cylinder today and ill make the crankcase next week.



the plans called for a cast iron, steel or stainless sleeve, i opted for ss because i could get a nice finish from the machine. (lazy!)



I'm just happy to be making progress, visual progress is something too so a sub? assembly going on!



i might take a day off work but go in anyway, seeing as work is low i think my boss will be on-board with this idea. 
one of the more cooler parts is that my girlfriend is learning and identifying! parts as i make them.


----------



## oneKone (Aug 7, 2013)

Well i managed to get some more time on the integrex today. i machined the crankcase and timing gears with help!







it's coming together now, the crankcase is two parts that will be bolted together.
next up was the gears, what a learning curve! all this info I'm trying to take is almost making my head explode..






the gears were cut using a threading tool with a 2mm pitch insert. this was such a awesome thing to see,


----------



## BronxFigs (Aug 7, 2013)

Chris001:

I'm very interested in reading all about this little engine that you are building.  The photos are great.  Hope the engine-building will bring you much success.

A few questions:

1.  Did you design the engine?
2.  Will drawings be available?
3   What is that small, additional, round, rod on the side of the con-rod?  What is the function of this?  This can be seen in your first series of photos. (Interesting, and unconventional construction of the con-rod).

Can't wait for more.  Thanks for sharing.


Frank


----------



## gbritnell (Aug 7, 2013)

Hi Chris,
It looks like you're making excellent progress on your engine. If I might make one suggestion. While the 2 brass gears will run together fine, although 2 different materials would be better for wear, I would say that the cam lobes being made from brass won't last very long. Usually most fellows make their cams from drill rod/silver steel for that reason. They don't need to be hardened although that would help also. 
gbritnell


----------



## BronxFigs (Aug 7, 2013)

Mr. Britnell:

Your posting refers to material choice in two critical areas of engine construction, i.e. cams, and gear material.

Gears:  You suggested that two different metals would be a better choice for the gears.  If one metal wears faster than the other, would not the teeth on the gear made from the faster wearing metal eventually be ruined?   Would this material choice need to be considered in the construction a model engine, and what metals would make for good wearing gears?

Cams/lobes:  Brass, bad choice....Silver Steel/Drill Rod, better choice.  Hardened cams, best.  Generally, do builders use softer lifters on a hardened cam?  Why?  Is it just easier to replace a lifter than to re-machine, or, replace a cam lobe?  If this is the case, would making a cam with replaceable, separate, lobes be a good practice? 

I defer to your experiences, and knowledge.  I need to learn what you already know.


Frank


----------



## oneKone (Aug 7, 2013)

BronxFigs said:


> Chris001:
> 
> I'm very interested in reading all about this little engine that you are building.  The photos are great.  Hope the engine-building will bring you much success.
> 
> ...


im copying the engine from plans, i believe they were posted by putputman. 
here is the link for the drawings: (through pages1-5?)

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f14/tiny-i-c-engine-7397/

the " small, additional, round, rod on the side of the con-rod" is where it was parted off from the bar-stock, i have since machined it off.


----------



## oneKone (Aug 7, 2013)

gbritnell said:


> Hi Chris,
> It looks like you're making excellent progress on your engine. If I might make one suggestion. While the 2 brass gears will run together fine, although 2 different materials would be better for wear, I would say that the cam lobes being made from brass won't last very long. Usually most fellows make their cams from drill rod/silver steel for that reason. They don't need to be hardened although that would help also.
> gbritnell



the plans called for the cammed gear to be brass. im hoping by using brass on brass (cam/cam follower?) that wear will be reduced. although it is inevitable it will wear.

i will see if i can make some from steel, the method i used to cut the teeth might not like it but ill ask for advice from a fellow machinist from where i work.

thank you for your suggestion, it has given me something to think about


----------



## BronxFigs (Aug 7, 2013)

chris001....

Just read your answers to my questions.  Very good news.  I will look at the drawings.

As for the extra piece on the con-rod....I'm laughing because I spent so long trying to figure out the possible function of the small cylinder.  Now, I know.

Thanks for the help.  Can't wait for more of the build to be posted.


Frank


----------



## gbritnell (Aug 7, 2013)

Hi Frank,
You could make one gear from brass and the other from a mild steel like 12L14. It cuts almost like brass. If you make the cam from drill rod it doesn't need to be hardened. By hardening the lifters this will give a good surface to surface contact without much wear at all. The general rule is never run two parts together made from the same material. As far as the gears you can use brass for both, a lot of builders use either 2 gears from mild steel or 2 from brass. You don't have a great friction contact from tooth to tooth. 
gbritnell


----------



## BronxFigs (Aug 7, 2013)

Mr.Britnell:

Thanks for addressing my questions.  

Your answers were good to read but the logic behind the choice of the material for these parts was my real interest.  I will follow your suggestions.

***************************************************************************************************************
chris001:  

Just looked at the drawings for this engine.  

Thanks.

Frank


----------



## BronxFigs (Aug 7, 2013)

chris001:

The original "Tiny" I.C. drawings show a horizontal, water-cooled, Hit and Miss engine.  You decided to make a vertical, air-cooled version using the critical dimensions, etc.  Nice! 

Frank


----------



## oneKone (Aug 9, 2013)

iv had 2 more days of free time............. time to do machining!

i made the cam follower, crankcase bushes, which are PB1 so they should be semi porus and (cant remember the name!) the ring that goes onto the 15T gear, crankshaft/ in three parts, i tried turning it in a eccentric (offset) bush that i made but it kept on spinning so i thought bugger it!  i also made the rocker stand-off and linkage. the next part was the valves, how fun that was, i turned them from 8mm bar stock. because of the smaller diameters i had to go lower on roughing feeds/depth of cut and grooving depth of cut/feeds. 

in one of the photos i have my hand next to it to show size. hopefully next week i can finish the valve springs, spark plug, and push-rod maybe the flywheel. 

im just not sure on the carb if i should make my own design or buy one from hobbyking. im still tossing up if i should wind the ignition coil myself and work on a circuit for the cdi ignition.


----------



## oneKone (Aug 9, 2013)

iv just had a thought! 
would i be able to use a vapour fuel tank? the only reason i can think of to use a conventional carb is to add a bit of oil to the mix to lubricate the valves. what if i added wd40, sewing machine oil to the fuel, would it "travel" with the fuel vapour?


----------



## gus (Aug 9, 2013)

Hi Chris,

Your engine looks great. Would be great if you can post PDF plans too. Gus trying very hard not build this engine. Alas. Just too weak to resist. 
Now in the process of fine tuning the Webster Engine. Will take time to enjoy the pleasure of tuning "Webbie."
The CDI ignition should arrive and I plan to put it in to try out space age
Ignition. At our  age we grew up and old with Dinosaur Ignition System.
Are you planning to CDI?


----------



## oneKone (Aug 9, 2013)

hi gus,

Ill try to draw up some plans for the crankcase and cylinder. at the moment the drawings are scattered on random bits of paper and through my head! 

when i first started messing around with 4 stroke motors they ran on points but cdi seems the way to go, my idea is to have a point system on the gears to trigger a cdi unit. i think it would be a respect to both old and new school.

before i joined this site i looked at your build and was intrigued by it. iv had another look and bloody hell mate! the build has come so far and the quality of it is just outstanding.


----------



## oneKone (Aug 17, 2013)

ok! iv finished machining (up to the point it can run) iv been on it about 8 hours and cant get it to start or even kick. the way iv set the exhaust up is by putting the piston a bdc and the cam will push the valve open as the piston goes up, the timing iv been trying betwheen 15-5 degrees btdc. can anyone help me with this?


----------



## stevehuckss396 (Aug 17, 2013)

Not knowing the cam specs it is hard to say but you could try this.

Take the lobe separation of the cam (110 is typical) and set your exhaust lobe to be fully open at 110 crank degrees before TDC. As a check your intake should be fully open at 110 after TDC. Continue rotating around to the next TDC and that will be the start of the power stroke. 

I usually try 25 degrees before TDC for ignition timing.


----------



## AussieJimG (Aug 25, 2013)

Hi Chris,

I have just come across this thread and have read it all with delight.

I have had a couple of tries to make this engine and now have an impressive collection of heads that Gus might like as sinkers.

Your version of the engine is impressive and I envy you the use of machine tools. I think your boss is also lucky to have an enthusiastic machinist.

In regard to ignition circuits, this one of Jan Ridders might be of interest: http://www.ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_blokker_vonkcircuit/blokker_circuit_frametekst_engels.htm

I will follow this build to the end perhaps be inspired to have another go.

Regards
Jim


----------



## gus (Aug 26, 2013)

AussieJimG said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> I have just come across this thread and have read it all with delight.
> 
> ...



Hi Jim,

Thanks. Will drive over to pickup the sinkers when I visit my daughter in Glenhuntly,Melbourne.

Fishing hit a bad luck. Biggies came but all went for cover into the coral snacks and refused to come for Dinner(be my dinner).

Took little girl and dad out. She was bored.So gave her a handline and hooked a few fish for her to haul up. Left her alone and she brought up a
1 1/2 lb Grouper and made her dad proud of her.
 Her proud dad caught no fish.:hDe:


----------



## oneKone (Aug 26, 2013)

Cheers for the link jim, I have completed the motor enough to run it but I'm having troubles starting it. I haven't worked on it in the past 2 weeks so ill try again to get it running.

The reason for moving slower on the build is because iv gotten a new rc plane so most of my attention is focused in that and fixing other planes in my "fleet"

Ill post a picture if my engine tonight when I get home from work.

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## gus (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Chris,
Please excuse Gussy for gatecrashing into your thread. Will take Chris out in my boat when he drops by Singapore.
You can helm the boat. We have GPS.FishFinder and AutoPilot.So helming will be easy.

Plan to collect sinkers from Jim when I come visiting Ozz.

See you.Mate.

See you.


----------



## oneKone (Aug 27, 2013)

Haha no worries gus, jim did you want me to send you a head I machined for your project?


----------



## AussieJimG (Aug 28, 2013)

Sinkers are waiting for you Gus.

Thanks for the offer Chris but I have put the project to one side for a while. I might convert it to a two stroke and perhaps copy some of your ideas for the general shape. I like your vertical air cooled model.

Keep up the good work, you are doing great.

Jim


----------



## oneKone (Aug 29, 2013)

OK so here's the engine completed enough to run:



i have tried so long to get it running. im on my revision 3 spark plug (which is now ok) and iv re-re-re-lapped my valves:






now after some time im getting pops by hand flicking it. i think my compression may be too high and my intake valve spring too "weak" so im going to modify these hopefully this weekend.

get it started!!!



i added the prop because i thought my flywheel may be to small, it has helped it but i think it may be the compression. im getting closer....


----------



## oneKone (Aug 30, 2013)

ITS RUNNING!!!!! it took a while but its finally there. as i type im rebuilding it to clean it up so im very happy..

link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN6sZVzUXnU&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Cogsy (Aug 30, 2013)

Congrats! Sounds like it runs nicely, especially without a carb.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Aug 30, 2013)

Congratulations on a runner. That's really wild, running it with the propane bottle directed toward the intake. I had never seen that done before.---Brian


----------



## ShedBoy (Aug 30, 2013)

Great work Chris! Hearing an engine run for the first time is a real buzz

Sounds great.

Brock


----------



## oneKone (Aug 30, 2013)

Cheers guys. I am very pleased! I'm pulling it apart today and polishing it, it will give me a chance to check the bushes and o-ring on the piston.

Again cheers,

Chris


----------



## gus (Aug 30, 2013)

Congrats!!!! Chris.You got it going.:bow:

As for Gus,its no fishing today due to dead slow tidal current.Will start n finish con-rod today.


----------



## AussieJimG (Aug 31, 2013)

A great job Chris, congratulations.

Jim


----------



## oneKone (Aug 31, 2013)

cheers all, 
iv got it running on a fuel vapour carb for now, i can hand flick start it so im pretty happy. im going to make something like a jan ridders vapour setup. so far iv cutr my knee 4 times, thomb twice, fingers heaps of times on that bloody prop!


----------



## gus (Sep 1, 2013)

chris001 said:


> cheers all,
> iv got it running on a fuel vapour carb for now, i can hand flick start it so im pretty happy. im going to make something like a jan ridders vapour setup. so far iv cutr my knee 4 times, thomb twice, fingers heaps of times on that bloody prop!




Hi Chris.
Those kind of injuries were very common with the props.Please take care.
Some of my high school aeromodelling classmates had it worse. One lost a finger.

Gus had it worse,I breathed in too much of the model engine fuel and ended up in hospital with very severe "Mechanical Pnuemonia" which I found out in medical books in later years. This was in 1961 when manufacturers would add in dangerous chemicals into aeromodel engine fuel for easy starting and maximise engine power.There was no health warning on the fumes.


----------



## Lawijt (Sep 1, 2013)

You have to start you beauty wit a Chicken stick!!! Or with a rubber finger protector!!! I have some model diesel engines in my collection they hit you harder back then you can flip the prop. I have a 3.5cc Webra tuned engine on diesel....I'am really scared of that engine,just looking at that give me chiken flesh.
A good tip from me is.......NEVER or NEVER choke it too much. When this ignites you have a lot of energy!!! Or the motor will broke , or you will have some cuts.
Please be carefull!!

Barry


----------



## oneKone (Sep 3, 2013)

I had my longest run last night with fuel vapour.... 15 minutes! 
On Friday I'm going to machine up the flywheels and "carburettor" although I might change the design of the carb.


----------



## gus (Sep 4, 2013)

Hi Chris,

That was fast work.Please post video.


----------



## GailInNM (Sep 4, 2013)

Chris, 
"Tiny Class" engines are such fun. I have a few variations that I have built.  Yours is outstanding.
Gail in NM


----------



## oneKone (Sep 5, 2013)

Cheers Gail, gus; ill be post pictures tonight I'm just working on a fuel tank, flywheels and carb today then the base on the weekend


----------



## AussieJimG (Sep 6, 2013)

Hi Chris,

I will  be interested to see what you do for the fuel tank. I have been playing around with designs for a fuel tank for a version of the horizontal Tiny Four Stroke
incorporating the fuel check valve and carburetor in the end plate. You can see what I mean in the cutaway drawing.

 I would like to do something similar for a vertical engine like yours but I can't come up with an elegant design. I am hoping for inspiration.

Jim


----------



## oneKone (Sep 7, 2013)

its done! the tiny is finished. my wood working skills are not the best but you'll get the general idea.










Jim that is bloody awesome work mate. i don't think i can call mine elegant but stainless is pretty to look at!


it starts sooooo easy! you dont have to flick it just turn it slow until the points make contact then it goes (ill post a video) and it runs sweet. 

my next project is still something to do with a tiny ic "range".... a two cylinder  engine, im just not sure to try a boxer style, v-twin or in-line. the reason for wanting to build a 2 cylinder is because i made spare parts i might as well use them!
 as for the crankcase and cylinder ill try to post a drawing i just have to remember how to use master cam/ solid works!


----------



## gus (Sep 8, 2013)

Hi Chris,
Please post latest video with vapor tank. I am tempted again to build your engine. Please make available your latest plans.


----------



## oneKone (Sep 13, 2013)

i didn't end up using a vapour fuel system, instead i went the "traditional" rout of liquid petrol. the fuel tank really didn't have plans but i do have some pics:


----------

