# Better than Money in the Bank?



## Antman (Nov 3, 2012)

I don&#8217;t really s&#8217;pose that anyone would take me seriously (as a machinist), so two things:
A is a one liner that I think I should be paid for (although it uses quite big words and is a bit too true to be philosophical)
and B is that I want a big bad milling machine. Now South African money has inflated to the tune of more than what a trying to be retired Dad with responsibilities gets from barely enough in the Bank. But for instance house prices have maybe dropped. So will hard assets like brute milling machines keep their value, or not, or show a (numerical) profit?
What&#8217;s it like, doing small milling on a big machine?
Ant


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## goldstar31 (Nov 3, 2012)

Your one liner is so negative that if I wasn't so old, I'd become depressed.
As for the money in the bank, you have entrusted the bank to look after it on your behalf. In return, they will lend it out at so many times its face value and charge interest on it- and keep it for themselves. 
Nothing contentious- merely cold fact.In the meantime, your money will have depreciated. Nothing contentious here either.

You then learn the factors of production. Land, Labour and Capital and Enterprise.
A one liner from me- or anyone else here will not teach you how to combine the factors- to make a profit. Perhaps the best quickie is to read the Parable of the Talents.It sets it all out and all you need to do is to decide where you stand.

Me, I'm not bothered about it. I understand how it all works and how it all worked.You will eventually find that money- which is what you are writing questions about is not important. Your health and that of those for whom, you care are most important.


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## Antman (Nov 3, 2012)

Life is stressful for me GS, and I need and appreciate my comfort zone. Eggs in other baskets


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## Antman (Nov 3, 2012)

These things do matter and you, GS and I have a fundamentally different approach to life


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## goldstar31 (Nov 4, 2012)

Perhaps we have different approaches but the whole question rests on just how much you want a mill and secondly, how good is your mill. Many, not just me, will say that the mill is the first cost but that the tooling around the mill could , if bought separately, more than the mill itself.

Does this help?


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 4, 2012)

Ant: Know one knows what the future will bring but it seems the cost of things keep rising. in most cases money sitting in the bank will gain less interest than the current inflation rate. IMHO if you want a larger nicer mill to enjoy for years to come including retirement buy it. like others said you will always need more tooling. will it sell for more than you paid   down the road  maybe maybe not. only time will tell. 
tin


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## Antman (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks Tin And Goldstar.  I'm starting to "get" lathework but have only made the smallest of starts on milling.  My current mill is a clapped out RF25 (I think, maybe an RF30).  The quill is bad,  feednuts very worn and some bozo had the table ground and it is out of square with the column by about a quarter millimetre front to back,  not so bad left to right. I got it cheap though,  thought I could find out what milling is all about.  There is not much hope on that machine,  the wobbly spindle/quill is very hard on endmills.  I guess I could work around the table issues by milling on a plate squared on the mill itself and make new nuts. I just need to look at the amazing work George Britnell has produced on his old Rong Fu for inspiration ... it can be done.  Doesn't stop me from wanting a serious mill,  even if I don't know what to use it for,  and I figure I'd be more motivated to learn on a machine that overawes me.  GS,  when you talk about tooling for a mill,  what do you mean besides cutters?
I'm a few trips around the block past 60 years old,  so looking to the future,  I maybe don't have too long to be in the shop,  none of my kids are at all interested in machining,  and I'm weighing up the ownership of an asset like a good mill on purely resale value against money rapidly losing purchasing power in the bank.  The pleasure, for me, of using an awesome machine doesn't come into the picture for my dependants, rather the liquidation value of my machines.  I think the wife and kids actually resent all the time I spend in the shop.
So that's how it goes,
Ant


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## napoleonb (Nov 5, 2012)

I seldom reply on messages but here's my 2 cents worth.
In my country and job i face many manufacturers whove gone bankrupt, therefore you can aquire certain machines with quite some ease as the market is ruined. 

Your future market (for when you're selling your mill) consist of 1 the hobby community or 2 the professional machine shop. Their general needs are absolutely not the same in regards to size, strength etc. 
The hobby community is not willing to pay top dollar for a clumpsy big machine and will be looking somewhere else, so your money will be depreciated. The machineshop doesnt want to buy a (in the future) old machine with a non-professional working live, who can tell what some former owner will have done with it. Because they don't know you, its old by then and most certainly not suited for that special job they want it for you'll be again losing money.

What i see in antiques is that the prices keep rising steady over the years, eg antique firearms of certain manufacturers, but here's the catch it has to be in mint condition to stand out in the market. Only mints are frequently sold, and you have to understand this market a bit before spending all your money on mint antiques which nobody ever wants. 

If you or your loved ones have to sell something and you want a fair price time is a factor. With more time you can get a higher bid or very interested person. But if you need money fast the price goes down (just with your interest rate at the moment) That's another thing to be thinking about.

Good luck deciding anyways


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## Robsmith (Dec 22, 2012)

Just put a bit away each week and before you know it....you'll have more then what you started with !


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## goldstar31 (Dec 22, 2012)

Robsmith said:


> Just put a bit away each week and before you know it....you'll have more then what you started with !


 
Frankly, I doubt that. If prices rise- and they seem to be- there is a point when saving becomes a loss.

Somehow, I doubt anyone here can be sufficiently expert to conquer all the present difficulties of the economic world- or even the far less important questions in model engineering. 

Now I might get damned or worse( and I'm too old to care) but survival in extreme conditions may mean- having water. It may mean having gold, or a Leica camera or even the right religion or politics.

I've none of the foregoing items- and in a world of 70-80 years ago- I wouldn't have survived for lots of reasons.

Perhaps, and I said this to a senior consultant cardiologist- you have to have the right genes. I have- he hasn't. He has lots of money- I haven't.

There are no pockets in shrouds.
So, there is one more thing-- it is called Luck.

Happy New Year from a lucky 82+ year old.


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## Robsmith (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't mean put it in a bank !!! I used to put all my $2.00 coins in a tin (In Australia they are smaller than a Nickel) After a year I bought new furniture for my living room...another year later I bought machinery...didn't even notice the saving happening because it was all loose change.
As for genes...they help along with eating right and not vegetating in a sofa all day. Luck ?    no such thing !   Think about your past and compare it to "unlucky" folk....you were just a little bit smarter and probably did that little bit extra....rich or poor it all boils down to having a go.
Happy new year.....& have a go.


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## BillH (Dec 31, 2012)

Worried about money? Listen to Dave Ramsey. If your not going to make money with your machine tools then you will lose at least half of your investment when you go to sell. Simple as that.


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## Banjoe (Dec 31, 2012)

Lots of happy thoughts being expressed. The fascinating part is that, as my old Dad used to say, these are the good old days so enjoy what you got while you got it, because it won't last forever. 

Wishing you all good cheer for 2013.


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