# Here"s what is needed for cnc



## Tin Falcon (Jun 27, 2010)

It seems like more folks are interested in CNC as time goes on.
so here is quick list of what is needed for a cnc hobby machine
1) a computer to run the thing usually fairly modest capabilities needed depending on software.
a second hand PC will usually do. Lots of choice out there. pc choice will depend on software choice. 
so $0- $1000 for a computer.

2)Software cnc software to operate the system 
a) Mach 3 cnc http://www.machsupport.com/ windows based commercial software well supported a good value.$175 license lifetime support the lifetime of mach that is.
b)Turbo CNC http://www.dakeng.com/turbo.html DOS based shareware $60 license
c)EMC2 http://linuxcnc.org/ linux based public domain software.
Notice 3 choices three operating systems.
$0 to 175 for control software

3)You may also want CAD Computer aided drawing software such as 
http://www.alibre.com/products/ 
A basic home version of Alibre CAD is about $ 100 more for the pro and advanced versions.
and Computer aided manufacturing software such as http://www.cambam.co.uk/
Cam BAM is $150 for the license and there is a try before you buy. 

4)you will need a motion controller for the motors the G540 in a nice package gecko $300 it is what I have. 
G 540


5)you will need a power supply to run the motors IIRC about $50 but will vary depening on type and how much voltage and amperage you need.

6) motors . most hobby machines use steppers but servo motors are another option. 
stepper motors $ 0 if you can scrounge $25 -$50 each to buy more if you go top shelf. 
Lots of options here http://www.kelinginc.net/ and here [url]http://soigeneris.com/default.aspx

[/url] and here. http://www.imsrv.com/
And please read the threads in this section on my builds. 
7) motion control hardware.
ball screw for mills here http://www.roton.com/Mating_Components.aspx?family=7059321
 $11 per foot for the screws and $25 each for the nuts

You will also need some sort of anti backlash coupling and or timing pulleys to connect the motors to the machine. 
http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-couplings/=7prg4b
IIRC paid $70 to $100 per machine for collars couplings etc w spare spiders.

8)Plans here http://www.stirlingsteele.com/Index.html and here http://www.fignoggle.com/and here is a guy who has done cnc conversion to the max lots more info here http://www.hossmachine.info/ IIRC $50 per set for plans. On my little lathe no plans just winged it. 
9) other sources for components motors Power supplies couplers etc etc.
http://www.homeshopcnc.com/ more cnc components
http://www.hobbycnc.com/ value priced kits for those that want to keep cost down and build there own PCB controllers. 
Hobby cnc shows control board kits for $65 complete packages for 3 axis kit under $ 300 this has everything but the machine ,couplers ,and the computer that is if I read everything right.
and yet more options options
http://campbelldesigns.net/
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/
http://www.pmdx.com/

Gecko drive has a FAQ sheet that will answer many more questions you may have. like what size motor or power supply you need. 
http://www.geckodrive.com/faq.html

Stepper motor basics by Geckco drive
http://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf

Control of Stepping Motors
A Tutorial
by Douglas W. Jones 
THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA Department of Computer Science

http://www.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/



And here is a free tutorial to help you learn G-code http://www.betatechnical.com/autonc.htm
there is also a complimentary program to calculate speeds feed angles etc. Free
sorry folks link is now gone replaced with a commercial portal

There are also many fun to have add-ons such as pendants, DRO scales, limit switches ,spindle sensor, coolant pumps enclosures, tool changer qc tooling, the list goes on. 
I personalty used an off the shelf X box 360 controller as a pendant the driver is available from the Mach 3 web site not problem to install and has custom configuration. 
For those who want to run Mach 3 from a lap top computer you will likely need a smooth stepper board $155 -$165     http://www.warp9td.com/ a little more for the new Ethernet card. 

Bottom line is the cost of a CNC conversion can vary greatly depending on your choices, your scrounging abilities your electronics abilities and your machining abilities and experience. Realistically anywhere from about $200 if you are really creative to $3000. if you go all out.
 10)And last but certainly not least a machine to convert.
the x2, x3 taig and Sherline mills and the Taig ,Sherline and 7x lathes are popular choices. 

Normal disclaimers. Some of the listed companies I have dealt with. Others I have not. I have not had any bad experience with any of them. No affiliation etc. 

Are you confused yet. Anyway hope this helps folks get started in cnc but please learn manually first you will be glad you did.
There is lots more out there. Experienced folks please feel free to add to the list. and thank you to Ron Ginger, Brian of Artsoft the makers of mach 3 and all the folks that have helped me in my journey to cnc in the home. Do your home work there are lots of choices. 
Tin


----------



## macona (Jul 26, 2010)

Here is a link to a site where they review the different non-commercial servo drives out there. 

http://www.thecubestudio.com/ServoDriveReview.htm

I have personally used the Gecko servo drives and I would avoid them now that there are other, better, drives out that dont use the encoder hunt method or need a scope to tune them. The Whale3 seems to have pretty good reviews. 

For spindle control boards , the modio board, and other goodies Homann Designs in Australia is great. 

http://www.homanndesigns.com/

Edited: Wow, I just reread it and my post didnt make much sense. Fixed, I hope.


----------



## T70MkIII (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks Tin, that's a very helpful list. I've always been CNC curious and I may convert the X2 eventually.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 31, 2010)

decided to put this in for a bit of humor on the subject
Ode to a cnc build

Oh for parts to be simple
my soul to be free
what I really need now
is to build a cnc

Motors are needed
to make the thing move
then I need software
to program the groove

Couplers and ball-screws
to prevent back-lash
otherwise my parts
may go in the trash

Pulleys and belts
A supply for power
the cost keep rising
it seems by the hour

I am doing this I say
to make parts with ease
is this really a Hobby
or a mental disease ?

progress moves on
completion not far
my money not spent
drinking in a bar.

happy I am
life could be worse
but instead of machining
here I write verse.

Tin Falcon 
25 Feb 2010


----------



## Tin Falcon (Aug 2, 2010)

For those of you who are experienced in electronics and want to build from scratch here is a valuable site. 
Loads of info [url]http://pminmo.com/ [/url] I found this site while looking for info on wiring a g540 up to and X-2 for spindle control. 
instructions and resources for building power supplies BOBs (Break Out Board) and motor drivers including instructions to hook up with mach 3. 
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 20, 2011)

FYI Gecko is now offering a Made in USA 280oz/in stepper motor designed to go with the G 540/ g250 motor controllers
$59 each this is only a couple buck more than Chinese motors of the same or similar specs. 
http://www.geckodrive.com/g723-280-p-45.html?osCsid=2ae949929a6796cafd236ba2d7a94aef
tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jun 12, 2011)

One of the challenges of wiring stepper motors up to a cnc is how to deal with the connection to the motor. How does one make this neat professional looking and preferably coolant resistant. My first CNC build this was primitive at best. I simply but splice the wires to my cable and pulled clear plastic tubing over the wires and added the customary wire tie to hold in place. 
The second attempt was a bit cleaner I used a small radio shack project box to contain the connection and attached a db 9 conector to the box and used latex sealant caulk to hod the box to the motor. Note to self and others remember to scuff th bottom of the box first.  Well here is a better solution to this 






http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=297
An actual motor end cap. this is probably about 5 times the cost of the project box but a neat solution .
$14.95 from cnc4pc 
Tin


----------



## n4zou (Jun 12, 2011)

Circular DIN Connectors are perfect for motor connections. They are more expensive than Jones Plugs & Sockets but well worth the extra cost. Mouser has them. You can refine your search down from here.

http://www.mouser.com/Interconnects/Circular-Connectors/Circular-DIN-Connectors/_/N-76q5g/?

Jones Plugs & Sockets would work fine as long as you pack them with Marine waterproof grease. The grease will protect the plugs and sockets from coolants and cutting fluids. Pack it around the solder connections and coat the blades to prevent corrosion. It will work as a dielectric and it's the same stuff sold in automotive parts stores as bulb grease @ $2.99 for a tea spoon amount. You can buy a tub of Marine or Trailer waterproof grease for about $5. The grease is dyed green for colour coding.

http://www.mouser.com/Interconnects...wer-Connectors/Jones-Plugs-Sockets/_/N-7auw9/

This is the kind of grease you need.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jun 16, 2011)

http://www.cncsources.net/
More cnc links.
Tin


----------



## dwentz (Jun 17, 2011)

Anyone using the HobbyCNC pro board? Electronics is my 2nd hobby so soldering it up would not be a problem.


I have a MiniMill that I have been debating what to do with. Not sure if I want to sell it or convert it to CNC. CNC would be nice to have for some things in the shop. I have a Clausing 8520 that I really love but want to keep it manual.

Dale


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jun 17, 2011)

That was one of the options I considered when going to CNC the G 540 was just coming out then . 
for some reason the DIY boards use the 5 wire, 6, 8 wire steppers . IIRC that was a down side for me. 
Depends on what you are looking for. IMHO opto isolation and a charge pump are nice safety features. 
Tin


----------



## George_Race (Jun 17, 2011)

I put together my CNC for less then $3000 a little over 2 years ago. Here is what I purchased to put it all together.

K2CNC 2414 basic machine with 7 inch Z axis.
Hobby CNC Pro board with their strongest NEMA 23 steppers
Mach3 for machine control
CamBam for Drawing and G-Code generation
ER25 collet set with 1/2 straight spindle
Bosch 3.5 HP Router for spindle
Assorted carbide end mills from ebay sales sites

Since putting the initial setup together, I have added a couple of smaller collet sets, a rotary table with 3 jaw chuck, a nice 4" machinist vice, a 3 X 4 Angle Plate, a pair of 123 Blocks, an analog Joy Stick for X & Y control, hold down clamp sets. In addition I purchased a Harbor Freight 7 X 10 lathe on sale for $299.95. Probably about $1000 spent in the past 2 years on the above additions.

George


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jun 19, 2011)

Though not a requirement some folk, schools and labs use machinable wax to prove or test cnc programs . while letting the computer run though it paces and watching the tool path on screen or cutting air can be useful , machinable wax has some advantages. It is soft enough to give and distort should a crash occur it does not wear tooling like metal and it is hard enough to take and keep a machined shape. Supply houses that serve the jewelry industry is one source . MSC and enco stock some and lat but not least you can formulate your own and cast to any desired shape ( within the laws of physics and rules of casting)
http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Homemade-Machinable-Wax.pdf
Tin


----------



## bradbyname (Jun 19, 2011)

Ouch. im guessing the G540 has gone up a bit. $480!


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jun 19, 2011)

hmm the gecko site still shows $299 for the G540. the 251x which is the daughter board driver that the 540 is based on more or less( the 540 actually uses 4 G250s ) has increased in price IIRC they were IIRC $55 each now $69
that price you mention may include mark up and VAT. 
Kieling.com IIRC in Chicago has the G540 for $249 
Tin


----------



## bradbyname (Jun 19, 2011)

most probably is, with import duties as im in the UK. i will do a bit of googling. no doubt I can source one for the price you have found in the states


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jun 19, 2011)

yeah you should be able to get one for close to half what you mentioned. I have no complaints with my chinese motors but if I was doing another mill I would go for the gecko motors as well IIRC les than $10 per motor more for made in usa. There motors are $59 each $55 each if you buy 4
tin


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 27, 2011)

Tim Do you get the solfware when you buy a small cnc mill . Thanks Dale


----------



## Tin Falcon (Oct 27, 2011)

> Tim Do you get the solfware when you buy a small cnc mill . Thanks Dale



All the CNC sofware I mentioned earlier in this thread is available on line as a download . http://linuxcnc.org/
EMC2 is free open source software that run on linix http://www.ubuntu.com/

Turbo CNC is Dos based software available here http://www.dakeng.com/turbo.html
The download is fully functional and you are encouraged to try before you buy if you use it and like send in the $60 for the license. 

Mach 3 is windows based. http://www.machsupport.com/ again you are encouraged to download the program and test it before purchasing the license. the license is $175 for Mach and $ 50 for the mill add ons the mill add ons is conversational programming. the program has you make choices and fill in the blanks it then generates G code based on your input. 

To answer you question it will depend on the mill and the vendor. any plug and play mill package will have to be set up with some software the question is does the price of the mill include a user license.
Sherline ships with EMC2 so no worries IIRC the mills from Littlemachineshop .com come with a mach 3 license. the mill add on would likely be optional. other vender check there web sites. 
Tin


----------



## dalem9 (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks Tim You are so kind .Me and coumpter do not get along well so it would be great to be able to try them frist .Thanks again Dale


----------



## sncf141r (Oct 29, 2011)

dalem9  said:
			
		

> Thanks Tim You are so kind .Me and coumpter do not get along well so it would be great to be able to try them frist .Thanks again Dale



I went the EMC2 route; you can download and burn a CD that allows you to boot it and run from the CD, so you can see how the whole system looks.

That's what I did at first.

Of course, you can't save any configurations to the CD. You can change your computer from the CD so that you create the Linux EMC2 system; and I *think* you can set it up so that you can boot into Windows, or into Linux, but verify that. (I don't have windows anymore, and I don't miss it)

I found the "stepconf" tool to be great for configuring my system. 

Linux is different than windows, but, it's like driving a GM or a Ford; in reality, ignoring the fluff, they both work.



JohnS.


----------



## ninefinger (Oct 30, 2011)

I've built my own CNC mill, a conversion of the large RF45 mill (MD-001) available from www.machinetoolswarehouse.com
It was not an easy path, and in reality is still ongoing as these are projects unto themselves and have many options that can be added along the way.
Some of the things I've not seen mentioned but end up getting done: Limit switches and home switches, oiling system, coolant/cutting fluid system, belt / motor guards, way covers, quick release draw bars, enclosures, etc.

For a good flavor of what many others have done check out the cnc zone benchtop machine forum - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/ lots of good conversions there.

I've done up a thread on my build there - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/93900-ih_clone_cnc_build.html 
I hope it gives a flavor of whats involved...

I use EMC2 LinuxCNC (new name same software) for the machine control software - works great but beware and read the minimum machine specs carefully - I had always assumed that Linux was stripped down compared to windows and would work on anything...guess who was wrong (ie a free PC might not cut it.)

now that I'm 90% done my mill (Feb 2010 to Oct 2011) I can use it for my real dream - a 9 cylinder P&W Wasp Jr (R-985) from the Bob Roach drawings / Vernal Eng. castings - thread to start soon on that.

Mike


----------



## /// (Oct 30, 2011)

sncf141r  said:
			
		

> I went the EMC2 route; you can download and burn a CD that allows you to boot it and run from the CD
> .....
> Of course, you can't save any configurations to the CD.



Interesting, might have to give that a go.
I wonder if it is possible to copy the image to a USB thumbdrive instead of the CD, allowing to save settings etc.


----------



## woodnut (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi All

Here are a couple of links that I found while researching my CNC machine. Mine is a DIY build for wood working but the steppers/controls and software are the same.

http://www.probotix.com/ You can buy parts or complete "kits". Steppers, controllers, breakout boards, power supplies, etc...

http://www.dumpstercnc.com/ Anti blacklash nuts, couplers, thread clamps, Flange nuts in ACME thread forms.

http://www.vxb.com/ Ball bearings, liner motion systems.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM Similar to McMaster.com (McMaster wouldn't ship to Canada, said it was to much paper work ???).

http://www.motiontek.ca/index.html Located in Ontario, can buy parts or complete "kits". Steppers, controllers, breakout boards, power supplies, Mach3, etc...

https://snbinc.ca/site/ Another Ontario suppler, lead screws and nuts in ACME thread.

http://solsylva.com/cnc/purchase_rack.shtml Where I got my plans for my CNC Machine "25x25 dual leadscrew"

http://www.keystonethreaded.com/index.html lead screws and other ACME thread supplies. I bought my lead screws here, Jason was very helpful and shipping to Canada was fast! 

Hope this helps someone.

John


----------



## steamboatmodel (Nov 26, 2011)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Though not a requirement some folk, schools and labs use machinable wax to prove or test cnc programs . while letting the computer run though it paces and watching the tool path on screen or cutting air can be useful , machinable wax has some advantages. It is soft enough to give and distort should a crash occur it does not wear tooling like metal and it is hard enough to take and keep a machined shape. Supply houses that serve the jewelry industry is one source . MSC and enco stock some and lat but not least you can formulate your own and cast to any desired shape ( within the laws of physics and rules of casting)
> http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Homemade-Machinable-Wax.pdf
> Tin


When I was first learning we used Styrofoam held down with double sided tape. It was a lot cheaper than the wax. At one place where we were doing flat instrument panels we use Plexiglas.
Regards,
Gerald.


----------



## SPiN Racing (Dec 19, 2011)

I Noticed a large portion of the information I have found regarding CNC conversions, (Nearly all of it) is related to benchtop mills.

I have a Bridgeport Series 1 (2 head (non variable speed)) and wanted to convert it to CNC. The issue I run into.. the vast majority of everything I have seen is related to smaller items. And when I have priced converting it with a pre-made kit from a variety of places they have all ben in the 15-30K range. Which is silly considering you can buy a MUCH more capable used milling station for that off Fleabay.

What Im looking for mostly.. is a place that sells conversion parts, and or people who have done the conversion with appropriate ballscrews, and motor and driver sizes. I dont want to be guessing at motor sizes, and end up smoking motors, or having them stall because they are overloaded with simple movements.

There is a world of great information in the links above, as well as various sites.. but they all appear to be oriented to smaller machines.

Thanks!
Scott (spinracing)


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 19, 2011)

> I dont want to be guessing at motor sizes, and end up smoking motors, or having them stall because they are overloaded with simple movements.



Do not be dismayed it can be done most of the sources I listed have what is needed for a larger mill. Watch e_ bay there has been at least one guy who posts here bought a cnc Bridgeport and sold off the cnc parts. The basics still apply do the math determine motor size select a gecko drive or other drive to meet your needs. there is science behind this but it is not rocket science. 

Find out the weight of your mill table decide how fast you need to move it and do the math 
Keiling has 1200 oz/in steppers for about $120 each a bit more than the little brothers but not too pricey. 
http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA34Motor.html
Coupled to these 
http://www.geckodrive.com/g203v-p-34.html
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jan 29, 2012)

While at cabin fever I noticed PMDX has a nice selection of cnc circuit boards and other acessoris for setting up a cnc machine. 
http://www.pmdx.com/
Tin


----------



## willburrrr2003 (Jan 30, 2012)

Good morning all, I use EMC2 for my CNC'd mini-lathe and I must say that I love it! It is very versatile, and very powerful software! I haven't tried it yet as my monitor is down on my lathe, but if you use the EMC2 boot disk to try the software and you have a thumb drive...put it in the usb port after you have booted from the disk image. The software should mount the usb drive, allowing you to be able to save to it   Then you should be able to save to it.

Regards,

   Will R.


----------



## mu38&Bg# (Jan 30, 2012)

Might add www.mesanet.com for those that want to do more complicated retrofits. They have boards for basic machines as well. I have purchased the 7i76 and 5i25 for my lathe.


----------



## crob09 (Jul 3, 2012)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> It seems like more folks are interested in CNC as time goes on.
> so here is quick list of what is needed for a cnc hobby machine
> 1) a computer to run the thing usually fairly modest capabilities needed depending on software.
> a second hand PC will usually do. Lots of choice out there. pc choice will depend on software choice.
> ...



There are some alternatives to this, you can also use a PLC or Micro Controller like Arduino in place of the Computer. You still need to program it and will probably use a computer to do so, but it is an alternative.
So here is another list of things you can use to run a home Mill, Lathe, or 3D printer.

1. A breakout board, this can interface with your computer via USB, DB25 or COM
2. Driver boards, you will need as many of these as you do motors, so if your mill is running three motors you need three driver boards.
3. Motors, you will need to determin holding force ect. But once you know what your looking for in a motor a driver for it is easy to find, most are only a few dollars.
4. A power supply, the supply must provide the proper Wattage, Amperage, and must not provide too high a Voltage.

A TB6560 driver can power larger stepper motors and something like a ULN2003 will supply smaller motors.

WHat "Tin" noted above is not correct, maybe just a little deep. Start small work your way up, it also helps if you have something to start from, for example you have a couple of motors you want to control, or a manual Mill you want to convert, use something like that as an Axiom and start answering questions as they popup. People arte always willing to help in these forums.

Cheers,

Rob

http://www.whatisacnc.com


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 4, 2012)

> WHat "Tin" noted above is not correct, maybe just a little deep



A typo Rob ?? I am assuming it should read 
"What "Tin" noted above is correct,maybe just a little deep?"

You are correct rob there are many ways of getting started in cnc and many choices for hardware. 
My approach was from the perspective of doing a cnc conversion on a Mill I then did a small lathe. 
Sounds like your approach is to experiment with cnc first then move it to a machine. 
One needs to keep goals in mind if the goal is to convert a machine to cnc for hobby use the general consensus it to stick with tried true like a g540 and known new motors. 
But if the goal is to learn new alternative cnc stuff and you enjoy the electronics experimentation and the software experimentation then that is cool as well. 
Tin


----------



## crob09 (Jul 4, 2012)

Yes a typo, it is supposed to read "not Incorrect" 
I am sure other people reading would have caught that


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 8, 2012)

This thread was started 2 years ago. I thank all of you who contributed to it. the initial goal for this thread was to give an overview and resource for those interested in a CNC retrofit. That goal was met. 

This thread however did not give any good starting point for a cnc build and it gave no technical information to guide to choices to be made . It simply gave choices. 
so in the interest of this board and in the interest of furthering cnc in this hobby I wrote a getting started in cnc thread. most of the info that was in this thread was included but more was added the goal has changed . In that light this thread is no longer sticky and has pretty much been superseded by the new one. 
And the new one is now sticky and easy to find. 
I see no need to lock this one in case anybody really wants to post here. 
Thanks
Tin


----------

