# Drill Templates?



## robcas631 (Jan 27, 2013)

I want to drill better holes. I'm not terrible but..... Anyway, are there such things as trill templates? Also, spacing.....whether you want 5 per part or 8?


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## robcas631 (Jan 27, 2013)

drill not trill.....my error


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 28, 2013)

In the days before cnc  drill plates fitted with drill bushings were common. and you can make them . they are typically for production use when you want to make say ten base plates for an engine and do not want to spend time doing the measurement and layout for each one. 
Tin


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## microcraft (Jan 28, 2013)

Drilling - Whether for oil or into metal, a topic worth discussion! 

When you say you want to drill "better" holes, what do you mean by that?  Are the holes not round?  Drill wandering? Holes going off center half way through the work?

As for hole placement - If you have a milling machine or a mill/drill combo, you can fit it with some really cheap Digital Scales and that will help you with hole placement. I fitted mine with two scales from Grizzly for under $75 (I think)

Drill bushings are a neat way of guiding your drill.  I have a drill jig I made for round stock.  I can fit several different bushings in the jig depending on how large of a hole I need.  It gives me a near perfect centered hole every time.


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## MuellerNick (Jan 28, 2013)

> In the days before cnc drill plates fitted with drill bushings were common. and you can make them .



But if he would make drill templates, he would have to drill them. Hen-egg-problem!


Nick


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## gus (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi Rob,
Gus is also a very bad driller. Holes get drilled off centres. Took me sometime to get it right.

I made it a point to pop the centre punch on the cross-hair spot on and make correction if necessary. Use prick punch to spot on,followed by regular punch.I use 2mm drill in mini drill bit holder to spot drill and move on to 3mm.This procedure will give a spot on starter point to commence the final drill size. Tip came from USA TubalCain.Drill bit holders were bought from
TokyuHands,Tokyo,Japan. Some forum members use Spotting Drills which gave very good results and again the centre popping must be dead centre.See fotos.
Twist Drills must be precision grinded with web thinned.


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 28, 2013)

You may want to look at this.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f25/hole-layout-101-a-19986/#post208379
Tin


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## robcas631 (Jan 31, 2013)

I like to be exact...so yes if it helps drill better holes so be it!


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## robcas631 (Jan 31, 2013)

Thank you for the advice! It makes sense!


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## robcas631 (Jan 31, 2013)

Thank you!


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## robcas631 (Feb 10, 2013)

Gus, what I am looking for is template that divides a circle in 5/ 6/ or other denominations.


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 10, 2013)

just use a set of dividers scribe a Circe then layout for six holes
Tin


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## robcas631 (Feb 10, 2013)

Tin, As in use my Architectural/ Mechanical drafting skills?


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 10, 2013)

if you look at the math section of the machinery handbook or any other good math reference,you will see that the radius of the circumscribed circle of hexagon is equal to the side of a hexagon .  so no need to reset the dividers to  the cord length . 

you can make a drill or layout template so that the holes on the end of a cylinder and the holes on the end caps are the same. 
Tin


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## Woodster (Feb 11, 2013)

This may be useful, just need a calculator, no need for dividers or protractors.


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## microcraft (Feb 11, 2013)

This may also be helpful - A bolt-hole circle calculator.

http://theoreticalmachinist.com/BoltCircleCalc

Of course, Tin's way works best  when the internet is down


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## Tin Falcon (Feb 12, 2013)

> Of course, Tin's way works best when the internet is down


And that is the beauty of a hard copy of the machinery handbook in the tool box or on the shelf. 
the newer MHB editions have dro coordinates for a diameter of 1 and center of circle at the origin so just multiply the numbers by the diameter of your circle. 
That is if one is fortunate enough to have a DRO. 
Tin


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## jeep534 (Feb 20, 2013)

drill one diameter in from the edge of stock and the pilot drill should be just slightly larger than the web of the drill bit you are using for your final hole.
IMHO
archie =) =) =)


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## Tonnetto (Feb 20, 2013)

Be careful, I have a similiar version of that bolt hole reference print-out and I found a couple of mistakes in the numbers.


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## Lew Hartswick (Feb 21, 2013)

Woodster said:


> This may be useful, just need a calculator, no need for dividers or protractors.



That is an interesting bit of info.   If you have a calculator (with trig functions) it's 
a lot easier than trying to find the piece of paper with the picture on it.  
I don't know why the little bit of trig needed for all most all metalworking is so difficult
for so may people.  I guess it's the "engineer" vs "artist" thing in the brain.  What is 
the expression,  right vs. left half of the brain??
   ...lew...


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## Dunc1 (Feb 21, 2013)

Ian Bradley, in his book The Amateur's Workshop (ISBN 1-85486-130-1) notes that while accurate layout is easy, maintaining that accuracy when actually drilling the hole is another story. He details how to use toolmaker's buttons to get the hole "spot on." This idea is very old; likely lost to many of us newbies.


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## Lew Hartswick (Feb 22, 2013)

Dunc1 said:


> He details how to use toolmaker's buttons to get the hole "spot on.".



I haven't seen these "toolmakers buttons" so in what way are they any more "spot on" 
than a DRO on a mill ?
   ...lew...


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## aonemarine (Feb 22, 2013)

Ive been having some issues drilling small accurate holes as well. I think i have broken about 5 #43 drill bits so far this week trying to sort things out. Ive been drilling on my bridgeport and had figured out a few things with my drill chuck not running true and a couple other things and thought I had it licked. drilling some brass today making connecting rods for my first project I snapped off another bit. Funny thing was that I had pre drilled with a 1/16" bit first with no problems, this had me scratching my head as to what was going on. I then decided to try drilling more 1/16" holes, 20 holes later and no problems, I even started using the power down feed at .001" per rev. another 20 holes and no problems. Great I thought, then tried another #43 drill... *SNAP*  ok very annoyed at this point, grabed the last of the #43 drills from the store and tried to drill it by spinning the quil by hand slowly.  I know what the problem is now, the drill bit is getting such a bite that is actually binds up and breaks off, a little bit of reworking on the drill bit and I can now drill a #43 hole.  You have no Idea how crazy this was making me trying to figure out what was going on and blaming my old clunky mill for the problem.
   I also made a small fixture for holding the rod that has bushings in it to help locate the holes in the rod cap and will also position the rod so I can drill it for the rod journal and wrist pin.  It was a bit of work but figured it would save time in the long run.


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## Dunc1 (Feb 23, 2013)

I don't expect that they would exceed the accuracy of a dro. They came along long before. I have not used them myself. but posted this more as  "lost to history."


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## MachineTom (Feb 23, 2013)

I can't see why you drilled the 1/16 hole to begin with, Spot the location with a spotting drill, then right through with a #43. The difference between the two drills is only .0165. 

You would likely have similar result if you drill a 7/16 hole then used a 1/2 drill, it would not be easy to do in any metal, but Brass, urg!


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## Tonnetto (Feb 23, 2013)

There's a good trick for drilling brass with any size drill, the cutting edge should have a neutral rake. On small drills just take a fine stone and run it against the cutting edge holding the stone parallel with the axis of the drill but angled so you make contact with the entire cutting edge. A few strokes should make a small land on the cutting edge. Same with larger drills except I find it easier to carefully "nudge" the cutting edge against the side of a bench grinding wheel, just a very small amount is necessary and make sure to do both cutting edges evenly. A drill modified in this manner will cut brass like butter. I can post a couple pics if anybody's interested.


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## aonemarine (Feb 23, 2013)

IM interested!!

  So your saying that the breakage is more than likely caused by the fact that I pre drilled with the 1/16" drill bit???  that and the rake of the drill bit??  Is brass notorious for this problem?  Yea Im a bit of a nube in this area....


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## aonemarine (Feb 23, 2013)

I did manage to get my rods drilled and tapped, drilled and reamed one but started getting tired and packed it up until tomorrow...


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## jack620 (Feb 24, 2013)

Tonnetto,
I guess, having modified the bit to cut brass, it is no longer of any use for cutting steel?  Do you have a set of "brass only" drill bits, or do you re-sharpen them after using them on brass?
Chris


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## Woodster (Feb 24, 2013)

Drills altered in this way will still cut steel, but need more pressure. Drill "Grab" is common when double drilling, especially in brass and reducing the rake to 0 will alleviate this. Other drill modifications are useful too! Like backing off a drill for use in plastic to prevent grabbing, web thinning to reduce lobe formation, even stoning the corner to improve surface finish.


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## aonemarine (Feb 24, 2013)

Well I have plenty of bits I can practice on regrinding  is there any picturees or tutorials on the web you know of for grinding a bit for brass?? Guess I can just experiment a bit and see how things go, what do I have to loose except re breaking a broken bit...


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## aonemarine (Feb 24, 2013)

OK zero rake works like a champ, but my drill bit sharpening ability needs some work to get the tip true. Using a marker and a diamond file I got it close but not perfect...


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## robcas631 (Feb 25, 2013)

I Should have asked a more thorough question. I am looking for a template that will divide circles into equal parts. Five, six even seven parts.


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## robcas631 (Feb 25, 2013)

This is it.

http://ceramicartsdaily.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dividingweb31.jpg


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## robcas631 (Apr 18, 2013)

The measure of skill is drilling from one side of a piece, then the other and having them meet up perfectly.


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## gus (Apr 18, 2013)

robcas631 said:


> The measure of skill is drilling from one side of a piece, then the other and having them meet up perfectly.




Hi Rob,

I had an elderly precision fitter/tool maker. Every time he completed a 12 ft
Shell & Tube Heat Exchanger Tube Nest,I could see a smile on his face. He made the tube sheet drilling jig.The holes on tube sheet were so close to each other and any slight run-out would show up but his was just perfect.
His Jobbers Drill Set is private and personal and off limit to everybody including me the Ops Manager. However he taught me to grind drill bits with the point relief on a weekend. He also ground a set of Dormers Drill for me.
His drill bits cuts on both sides.A true blue blood Master Tradesman.
He is another master at cutting gear tooth on the shaper with minimum filing
touch up.


Sorry.I did not have too much time for this master fitter. Gus spent too much time chasing figures for the USA Corporate Bosses. However would buy him good coffee and give the Ingersoll-Rand Year end gifts such as pens,golf caps
and cheapy watches with IR logo when I dropped by.

Wished he is still around to teach me marking,scribing,punching and dead centre drilling. 


Gus Teng.


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## chrsbrbnk (Apr 18, 2013)

If you need fair hole location use a center drill to spot the hole, it helps a bunch.  If you drill the hole from both sides to meet in the middle  they will never meet perfect maybe close  but there is always some mismatch.  but it can give better location than drilling all the way thru a thick part , consider drilling from both sides with say a 1/64 under than come back and run an onsize drill all the way thru from one side. ( drill reaming)  our cnc guys  on some tiny hole stuff  will only drill on surfaces that have been surface ground smooth  32- 16 rms or so.  another trick that works is making a very concentric hard pointed rod  with the same angle as the drill point  then use it as a center punch in the quill  making tiny center punch marks for starting the drill   used when the drill is smaller than the center drill tip  say like .015  or smaller .  feed and speeds all matter here   some crap can really work harden. All this relates to whatever following uses of holes like reaming and tapping,  an amazing number of tapping problems come back to drilled hole conditions. alotta guys use a coolant


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## robcas631 (Apr 21, 2013)

Chrs ty for the advise.


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## robcas631 (Apr 22, 2013)

Gus, Grinding bits is a talent and must for creating an accurate hole. No one likes drifting....How did you sharpen bit's .125" and less? ~ Rob


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## gus (Apr 22, 2013)

robcas631 said:


> Gus, Grinding bits is a talent and must for creating an accurate hole. No one likes drifting....How did you sharpen bit's .125" and less? ~ Rob



Hi Rob,

I can manage to grind 3/16 onwards but 1/8 would be tough for a 70 year young man. Have not tried using magnifying glass to help grind 1/8 and below.


Gus Teng


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## robcas631 (Apr 27, 2013)

Aone I hate breaking bits. Worse is breaking taps.


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