# Cutting lubrication



## robcas631 (Jul 20, 2013)

Working on my Grizz 7x12 lathe I have used a combination of lubricants at hand. At first I used straignt oil... it worked but no so good. Spraying W D40 with oil worked fine. So I though....ah mix some lamp oil with the oil. Well it works better, yet I feel there is a better way. If anyone knows a home brew or would recommend a good lubricant kindly let me know?


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## steamin (Jul 21, 2013)

If you are looking for a home brew or something readily available. Go to your local grocery store and buy a can of Crisco cooking grease. No kidding, it works very well. I worked part time in a small job job during my senior year of high school, about 50 years ago. They had cans of the stuff all over the place to use on the lathes, mills, shaper and drill press. I use it on occasions when machining copper. It does not stain as traditional cutting oils do.
have fun,
Larry


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## gus (Jul 21, 2013)

I use Tapmatic Tapping Oil sparingly with very small paint brush dobbing every now n then.
Even Grade 5 Fasteners could be cut with good finish with HSS cutters.

Just bought a bottle of Tapmatic Tapping Oil good Aluminium only and found one addictive that may be offensive to a small minority------------Lard Oil. In Trade School we were taught to use Lard when tapping mild steel.My minority classmate was happily using it w/o being told it was Lard!!! Anyway he thought it was some special mineral lube.


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 21, 2013)

First of all rob if you have not done so get a copy of TC 9-524 Machine tool manual. A public domain document available on the net in pdf form. 

Any good machining book will have a chart on the best /recomended lube for common metals and common operations. 

If you are looking for a one size fits all /or most lube buy a bottle of water soluble oil from you industrial supply house. mix up a batch put in a squirt bottle and go to town. the downside is you may have to buy a gallon. but you can share that gallon and still likely have a lifetime supply. 
Tin


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## enfieldbullet (Jul 21, 2013)

straight lard is a great lubricant. been used in the old days. it's also cheap, readily available and biodegradable.

plus, it smells like bacon when you're cutting.


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## ChrisLister (Jul 21, 2013)

sounds good the bacon smell 

but how is lard oil called in Europe? 

thankx


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## Mechanicboy (Jul 21, 2013)

ChrisLister said:


> sounds good the bacon smell
> 
> but how is lard oil called in Europe?
> 
> thankx





French: l'huile de lard
Nederland:spekolie


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## enfieldbullet (Jul 21, 2013)

you can use normal baking lard, no need to be 'lard oil'

lard will melt at normal machining temperatures.


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## robcas631 (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks a lot Tin!


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## John Rus (Jul 22, 2013)

Someone told me windex works well for a cutting fluid, can't remember what metal it was good for. Mabye aluminum.

John.


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## ConductorX (Jul 22, 2013)

Lard is also labeled as Manteca (Spanish). 

IMHO - Windex is good for cleaning the paint on your oily machine tools.  I used it at NASA to clean the CNC machines and automatic welders.  It has Ammonia so I don't know about using it for lubricant.

"G"


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## gus (Jul 22, 2013)

enfieldbullet said:


> straight lard is a great lubricant. been used in the old days. it's also cheap, readily available and biodegradable.
> 
> plus, it smells like bacon when you're cutting.




Hi Enfield,

Love eating bacon but only when travelling. My darling boss just won't buy it.Its bad for Gus's health but she turns a blind eye when we travel.

Tapmatic is expensive. Will look out for Lard Oil in the local Supermarket and use for tapping and turning and sssmellinnnnng. Ha ha. 


Lard Oil sounds highly technical but not Barbi Oil which will be highly offensive. Deep or shallow frying my Sea Bass(Barramundi) with Barbi will be very good eating.Ha Ha;D


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## Mosey (Jul 23, 2013)

There is a large industry of cutting oil products that have advantages over conventional materials, though I don't think they offer a whole lot for us hobby'ists. Check out MSC or Grainger or the like. I use and like Tap Magic Cutting Fluid, which is non-carcinogenic.
Mosey


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## tornitore45 (Jul 23, 2013)

In Italy is called "Olio di Lardo"

I have experimented with making lard oil from grocery store lard.
The problem is that after melting it cools and it become lard again or very close to it.
Then after researching I learned that Lard Oil is obtained by pressing the Oil out of the pasty greasy substance.

Using plain Lard for cutting may be OK but Lard become rancid quicly and I assure you it does not smell like bacon.

My shop (garage) can be 100F in summer, so I though I could keep the lard in the spare fridge just on the other side of the door, until the wife find out and wen ballistic.


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## Forestgnome (Jul 23, 2013)

I just use WD40 for aluminum, gear oil for steel. Gear oil is sulferized. I use water soluble on my bandsaw (Rustlick).


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## myrickman (Jul 23, 2013)

I like a product called Anchorlube. It is a water soluble stearate and completely non toxic. It has the consistency of thin mayo is it stays put on the work. Works great on difficult stuff like stainless. A gallon is like 25 bucks and lasts forever. Also works great for tapping and threading. I get mine from MSC.   http://www.anchorlube.com/anchorlube.html


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## cidrontmg (Jul 23, 2013)

Lard in Portuguese is "Banha de porco". Several varieties, some are almost odorless, some are definitely smelling bacon. I heard McDonalds contains some 6-7% lard, the rest is vegetable oil, and the French fries seem tastier with some lard.


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## Beachside_Hank (Jul 23, 2013)

Found this tip in an Old Pop Sci or Pop Mechanics, can't remember which:


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## CrashedAgain (Jul 25, 2013)

For high speed machine work like drilling where the primary need is to cool the work, use a soluble oil which should be available from any machine tool supplier. 
For heavy cutting or threading where the primary need is to make the tool cut easier and not tear the work, use a sulferized cutting fluid such as used by plumbers on power pipe threading machines. It is dark brown and messy. If you cannot find a supplier, talk to a nearby plumbing shop. The difference it makes has to be seen to be believed, power pipe threading machines simply will not work without it.
WD-40 is not a cutting fluid. Lard works but will eventually turn rancid and stink.


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## Forestgnome (Jul 25, 2013)

CrashedAgain said:


> WD-40 is not a cutting fluid. Lard works but will eventually turn rancid and stink.



Don't know why you say WD-40 is not a cutting fluid. It certainly is, as much as anything else is a cutting fluid. As you mention, cutting fluids serve various purposes depending on the application. WD-40 is a fluid, and in cutting aluminum serves to prevent chips from rewelding back onto the surface. Chip clearing with compressed air will provide a similar function, however will not prevent bue on the cutting tool the way WD-40 will.


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## JeffersonHouse (Jul 25, 2013)

Most of the fellows and shops in my area use ATF.  Simple transmission oil makes a very good lubricant for cutting steel. It's cheap and readily available.  I guy I know keeps a keg of used ATF he gets from the local garage to run in his sprinkler systems.


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## tornitore45 (Jul 25, 2013)

I use ATF with good results.
In the past ATF was from whale oil, possibly similar to lard oil, if this is the case it may explain the ATF suitability as cutting oil.
It remains to be seen whether the qualities than make whale oil derived ATF suitable for cutting are retained in the reformulated NEW ATF.

Before closing this post I have googled for Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF + "whale oil" and gotten a real education I suggest to read.


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## goldstar31 (Jul 25, 2013)

With a small homeworkshop, I have used purified lard oil on steel for many, many years. I suspect that it came from the catering industry but my local oil wholesaler got in- in a 5 litre can. Apart from possible religious issues, this was the old timer's cutting fluid and got thinned and cheapened with soaps and water. 

Mine has only one fault and that it attracts wasps in summer and the odd little child who thinks that I have set up a rival Big Mac outlet. Apart from increasing food consumption, no problems.


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## jbesowest (Jul 25, 2013)

I use a can of kitchen non-stick spray for a lot of turning, cutting, and tapping -- especially on aluminum.  It is especially good for spraying on  power sanding disks or sanding belts  -- it will prevent clogging and gives good cutting action -- especially on aluminum.  Use it on on saw blades  when cutting aluminum.   No bacon smell here, but you can get it in butter flavor  if you like (I prefer the non taste stuff)!!   

Another excellent drilling or  tapping "grease" for mild steel or aluminum is the "patch lubercant" that is used in muzzle loading shooting -- several brands are available, and most any gun store will have it in tubes or jars.  It is most likely an animal based grease (possibly lard and maybe a little lanolin), but has a nice wintergreen odor  and does not seem to get rancid.  It gets a little hard at cold temperatures, very soft at hot temperatures, but at normal room/shop temperatures is a smooth, easy to use product.  I keep a small jar around and just dip my drills or taps into the jar before use.  Easy and inexpensive for both products.


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## CrashedAgain (Jul 25, 2013)

Forestgnome said:


> Don't know why you say WD-40 is not a cutting fluid. It certainly is, as much as anything else is a cutting fluid......



OK, I will amend that....

WD-40 is not _designed to be_ a cutting fluid. It was originally formulated to repel water and prevent corrosion and owes it's popularity to really good marketing not to any outstanding abilities.

Yes, almost any fluid will serve as a "cutting fluid" to some extent but some are better than others. 

Soluble oil (which originally started out as an emulsion of animal fats and water) is best at cooling because it contains a large amount of water for cooling effect.

Sulferized cutting fluids are better at improving the cutting action but are less effective as a coolant.

IMHO both are more effective than WD-40.


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## gus (Jul 25, 2013)

CrashedAgain said:


> For high speed machine work like drilling where the primary need is to cool the work, use a soluble oil which should be available from any machine tool supplier.
> For heavy cutting or threading where the primary need is to make the tool cut easier and not tear the work, use a sulferized cutting fluid such as used by plumbers on power pipe threading machines. It is dark brown and messy. If you cannot find a supplier, talk to a nearby plumbing shop. The difference it makes has to be seen to be believed, power pipe threading machines simply will not work without it.
> WD-40 is not a cutting fluid. Lard works but will eventually turn rancid and stink.



Hi CrashedAgain,
Seen guys pipe threading on the Rigid Machines. The dirty/evil/messy threading oil is best for threading but a bit messy for my balcony machineshop. Forced to stay with the expensive Tapmatic. But lately been trying out China Tapmatic and just usable. They claim it works well tapping Aluminium. Yet to try out.


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 25, 2013)

> Another excellent drilling or tapping "grease" for mild steel or aluminum is the "patch lubercant" that is used in muzzle loading shooting -



IIRC  talow based  ie beef fat . 

I also remember using a lump of tallow or wax for flux t o melt lead. 

bees wax can also be used for drilling. And appears to be used as muzzloader lube by some. one recipe for  BP lubecalls for 5 part bees wax 4 part canola oil and i part Crisco. 
Tin


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## MarioM (Jul 25, 2013)

Beef fat, guess in English is called tallow.  In this part of the world in Spanish it is called "sebo".  It works great in steel, and mixed with lamp oil works great in aluminum.  Great for tapping too.

Mario


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## goldstar31 (Jul 26, 2013)

I would agree with Tin about tallow which is still used to wipe solder filling on car bodies.  I did my City And Guilds in Motor Vehicle Restoration using tallow. Before that, we used tallow to wipe underground electrical supply cables and I think that I was about 11 or 12 in the War when I repaired a burst outside pipe in - what you cousins call the John and we who were brought up in George Stephenson country- the 'netty' from the Roman Wall French 'nettoyage'


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## jbesowest (Jul 26, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> IIRC  talow based  ie beef fat .
> 
> I also remember using a lump of tallow or wax for flux t o melt lead.
> 
> ...


Tin:  Good comments.  I have been shooting black powder muzzle loaders for over 65 years and used to use Crisco, auto water pump grease, etc.  Shooting  always left a gummy  "black powder" residue which required frequent cleaning to continue shooting.   Always wondered how the army guys could always keep shooting their muskets for a number of rounds between cleaning..  Turns out that the secret was animal grease -- generally lard, bacon grease, bear grease, whatever..  The new "patch grease" is just that -- what a difference it makes.

I just stumbled on to using it in the shop by accident when I ran out of tapping fluid and was tapping some #4 holes in steel.  Remembered it being lard based and tried it -- worked beautifully.  Now use it all the time.


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## Lakc (Jul 26, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> IIRC  talow based  ie beef fat .
> 
> I also remember using a lump of tallow or wax for flux t o melt lead.
> 
> ...


Some of the muzzleloader crowd only wear animal skins, use deer bone powder horns, and are permanently stuck in the 1830's 
Im pretty sure most of the stuff in tubes is synthetic, but you will find plenty in that crowd taking the "back to nature" route. 

A little tapmatic goes a long way, and factor the expense of a broken tap, Ill stick to the high tech stuff myself. 

For any cutting I bought a gallon of astrocut 200 concentrate for less then $20, almost half gone after 14 years.


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 26, 2013)

when I was a youth  in my late teens my dad started getting into black powder.  My brothers and I cast projectiles and rendered down chunks of beef fat from the local butcher shop for the cause. 
Tin


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## clivel (Jul 26, 2013)

jbesowest said:


> Always wondered how the army guys could always keep shooting their muskets for a number of rounds between cleaning..  Turns out that the secret was animal grease -- generally lard, bacon grease, bear grease, whatever..  The new "patch grease" is just that -- what a difference it makes.




Unfortunately that didn't always work out so well, hell it even caused a revolution:



> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Indian_Rebellion_of_1857
> 
> The British had issued new gunpowder cartridges that were widely believed to be greased with cow or pig fat, which insulted both Hindus and Muslims.
> ...
> ...


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## enfieldbullet (Jul 26, 2013)

also, tallow won't get rancid as lard will.

although i never had a problem with lard, i just try to keep it clean and refrigerated.


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## Engineeringtech (Jul 29, 2013)

Depends on what you are cutting, and what operation you are doing.  .  Unless I am tapping I use water soluble oil in a mist sprayer.    If I don't want the mess, and not cutting a lot of metal, I use kerosene for aluminum, sulfurated cutting oil for steel,  and nothing for plastics, brass, or iron.  I am told I should use milk on copper, but have never tried it.    You could also hook up a vortex cooler and the cold temperatures will make your work a lot cleaner and without any solvent or chemical exposure.


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## robcas631 (Jul 31, 2013)

Larry it worked really good thanks!


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## robcas631 (Jul 31, 2013)

Jeff ATF? Wow.....I will give it a try! TY


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## robcas631 (Jul 31, 2013)

Wierd how tallow aka lard was used to grease early steam engines.


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