# The "Beijing Deckel":  Musings About a T&C Grinder from the Lowly HF Grinder



## BobWarfield (Oct 30, 2008)

The ubiquitous HF tool grinders are handy beasts around the shop. I've been very happy with mine. Periodically, folks like John Stevenson have been on about how to use a universal vise to make a simple T&C grinder out of one so you can sharpen you end mills and drill bits.

Here is the HF grinder I refer to:







I've followed the discussions with interest, but never done much more about it. I know some fellows have made some pretty nifty attachments along these lines. But recently I came across some great videos on YouTube that show how to use one of the Asian Deckel clones to sharpen lathe tools, end mills, and drill bits. Here is one such:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkYVUy7hmDk[/ame]

This video really got me thinking. That tool holder pivoting on the rail sure looks like this other thing I have had sitting in my shop:






Yep, it's an "800watt" universal vise, readily available on eBay for circa $60. You can make one too--Mcgyver welded up a very pretty one and posted up pix on another board.

So here is my "artists concept" of how to put that HF grinder together with a universal vise to do this kind of sharpening:






The universal vise is mounted to a precision rod that can pivot to stroke the tool against the grinding wheel. The universal vise allows precise control of the angle of the plane at which the tool which sweep the grinder face when the assembly is pivoted. The depth of cut is adjustable with the threaded rod that bears on the end of the shaft. The adjusting rod is mated to a ball bearing pressed into the shaft end. This way the shaft can be rotated for the tool grinding without turning the adjustment rod and move the tool holder left or right.

The shaft itself is held in bronze bushings. For endmill sharpening, one could mount a precision air bearing in the tool holder and go from there.

This sort of accessory looks relatively easy to build, and I don't know why it wouldn't be capable of results very similar to a commercial grinder of this type.

Note that this style of grinder can't do everything. There are grinders with more sophisticated geometries that are more versatile. The T&C community endlessly debates the merits of the various exotic specimens such as the Quorn and others. My focus was to find something fairly cheap and easy to build that could take care of a lot of the more common operations. 

I don't have time to try building one at the moment, but it's on my list, and I keep a page about it on my site here:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCBDToolGrinder.htm

I call it the "Beijing Deckel" for obvious reasons!  :big:


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## gr8life (Nov 6, 2008)

I am in the market for a new grinder to use for just grinding lathe tools. I only want it for hss not carbide. Can you tell me what size and type wheels go on this grinder?
thanks
ed


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## BobWarfield (Nov 7, 2008)

The HF grinder comes with 6" diameter 1 1/4" arbor wheels.

They're pretty crummy though. Most people upgrade them.

A good article on selecting better wheels is available here: http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=76065

Cheers,

BW


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## Maryak (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi Guys,

Some time ago, I made one of Harold Halls T&C Grinding attachments for my 6" bench grinder. It was well worth the effort in giving me the option to sharpen end mills, as well as the enjoyment of making it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The biggest drawback was the asynchronous vibration between the wheel and the jig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




First I removed the rubber pads from the Grinder base this gave a small improvement and was now good enough for all but the flutes of end mills and slot drills.

As I need to make some accurate form tools for my 3cc engine, today was the day to try and rectify the problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Here's what I've done.

Current setup.






A nice piece of 1.25" plywood shipping container floor






The all fine weather outdoor woodbutchers shop.






The new one piece base clamped for hole and slot marking.






Drilling and slotting the base.






Re-assembling on the new base






Now see if you can vibrate separately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









By this time 11:00 it was 36C in the shade 42C in my shop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so it was time to go home and sit under the ACU.

Bob, I hope you don't mind my borrowing a bit of this thread ??? :bow: It seems silly to start a new topic when the overall subject is up and running.

Best Regards
Bob


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## wareagle (Nov 12, 2008)

Bob (Maryak), I like it! Looks great! You'll have to provide us with a 500 word review on how well it works. 



As for the heat, it sounds like summer down under! With it 36°C (97°F) outside in the shade and 42°C (108°F) in the shop, I can't imagine you wanting to go find some cooler air to breath! 

 

Here's a cold one for ya!!


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## BillH (Dec 21, 2008)

Maryak  said:
			
		

> Hi Guys,
> 
> Some time ago, I made one of Harold Halls T&C Grinding attachments for my 6" bench grinder. It was well worth the effort in giving me the option to sharpen end mills, as well as the enjoyment of making it.
> 
> ...


Bob, I could not see Harolds sketches of his adapter. I would very much like to make my own dedicated HSS tool grinder. By any chance, do you have those drawings still?


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## Maryak (Dec 22, 2008)

BillH,

The drawings and build instructions are in Model Engineers Workshop issues 89-92. Copyright prevents me from assisting you further.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Hopper (Apr 10, 2016)

I dont think the full drawings are on Harold's website. 
If you want to build the toolrest/sharpening arrangement, it's best to buy his book "Tool and Cutter Sharpening" published as part of the Workshop Practice series here http://www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/workshop-practice-series/tool-and-cutter-sharpening/
At 8 quid it's a bargain. Contains all the drawings, instructions to build and instructions on how to use his devices.


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## goldstar31 (Apr 10, 2016)

I seem to recall that Mr Hall is or was a contributor here.

However, recently I mentioned something similar in Eccentric Engineering's Acute Tool Grinder.  The whole thing can be seen working on the net whilst the book of plans is- about £17. I would guess that the construction is even simpler.

Again, the Worden from Hemmingwaykits is fairly similar and if the kit is bought, can be up and running in a weekend. 

Frankly, I don't like any of them because they all suffer from one defect i.e. Grit! So does the Quorn and the Kennet which I have.

I had a similar sort of discussion with a neighbour only a week or so ago. In the end, he bought a Union t and c. I have a Clarkson and a fabricated Stent which suffer less.

I can't comment on John S's tool because I haven't seen one in the flesh. It certainly looks interesting.

In another forum, there has been quite a lot of interest in 'roughing out' HSS blanks with nothing more than an angle grinder. It started discussion on a tool post grinder construction and wandered.

In the hss 'camp' it is probably up to date.  Playing with diamonds and CBN is another huge canvas.

Regards

Norman


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