# DEMON 2X



## bruski (Jun 22, 2020)

I machined a original size and a 2 X double size Demon oil pan for comparison. There was enough chips to fill my 10 gallon shop vac by the time I was finished milling the pockets. Also, I ground a cam for the 2X Demon with 112 degree lobe separation just in case I super charge it later on. The double size rods are almost as big as the original oil pan.

Bruski


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## DiegoVV (Jun 22, 2020)

Nice work!!
How do you calculate the profile of the master cam template?

Thanks!!


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## bruski (Jun 22, 2020)

I followed an artical in Strictly I.C. magazine 1994 Oct./ Nov. issue page 28 on Master Cam Design by Don A. Bell. Using Steve's cam profile scaled up x 2 gives a base circle of .700 and .140 lift with a flank radius of 1.392 and a nose radius of .062. My master cam has a 2 inch diameter base circle. The radius of the desired cams diameter has to be subtracted from the master cams radius so ( 1.0" - .350" = .650" ) Now add .650 to all the radii on the desired cam. The radius origins remain the same places. The flank radius becomes 1.392+.650=2.042 the nose radius .062+.650=.712 and so on. I hope I didn't confuse you too much. Pictures or drawings are available on this forum somewhere on cam designs. 
bruski


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## bruski (Jun 22, 2020)

Any suggestions on how to hold the block for machining the top flat area? The bottom has a 90 degree point to it still. I am thinking about removing the vise from the table and setting the pointed bottom of the block in one of the t slot's, then clamping the two sides below the cylinders where I could mill a small pocket on each side to clamp on. The small pockets would be milled away when the sides are milled with a ball mill.

bruski


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## johnl (Jun 23, 2020)

I mounted the pointed bottom end in a set of v blocks. I bolted a length of flat stock to each end to clamp it down.


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## bruski (Jun 23, 2020)

Thanks for your reply John. That sounds like a good idea.

bruski


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## DiegoVV (Jun 23, 2020)

Thank you! I'll have to sit in front of my computer to translate it into cad. 

Camshaft grinding appears at the beggining to be a simple task, but when you dig into geometries, ratios and so, it becomes a complex issue.


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## bruski (Jun 23, 2020)

I have found that locating the lobe centers for each cylinder on a V8 is the most difficult part for me. Following the firing order plus cylinder location not to mention the valve order on the heads, there is still the 90 degrees between the right and left bank.

bruski


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## DiegoVV (Jun 23, 2020)

Just one more question: Must the diameter of the follower to have a certain proportin in relation to the grinding wheel diameter? Thank you very much.
I am unable to find the Strictly IC number you mention.


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## bruski (Jun 23, 2020)

Yes, I believe the follower should be the same size as the grinding wheel. But I have ground several different cams with different master cams of different sizes and I can't tell any difference between them all. My follower is smaller than my grinding wheels using the two inch diameter master cam I just turn the crank slowly and keep the feed lite cuts. Your master cam needs to be smooth and well blended where the flank radius starts and stops. If not, it will show up on your lobes. I will try and find a picture of the article and post it.
bruski


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## DiegoVV (Jun 24, 2020)

Thank you one more time!! I´m very proud of this community. In such an activity as engine making, you´ll need technical support sooner or later and this forum is full of people like you willing to do it.


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## bruski (Jun 25, 2020)

A little more work on the 2X Demon block done.


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## bruski (Jun 26, 2020)

While looking at the above picture the main bearing cap holes look off center on some, it is an optical illusion from the camera angle I guess. I will try and take better pictures in the future.

bruski


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## stevehuckss396 (Jun 26, 2020)

That's because the flash caused some glare. Try lots of light, natural light if possible and no flash. Warning, if you have a good camera other things might show in the photos like boo boos and owies that you might not want us to see.


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## bruski (Jun 30, 2020)

Here is a size eye opener of the Demon cylinders both standard and 2X. Also, made the main bearing caps and rear bell housing adapter plate.

bruski


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## bruski (Jul 3, 2020)

Line boring the main bearing caps has been at the limits of my equipment on hand. I first ball milled the three center bearing webs and caps with a one inch ball mill to a depth of .460. Then installed the caps and cobbled up a way to attach the block to a face plate on center. My plan is to line bore the three center webs with a boring bar that can reach the first two without any problems but the third one is out of reach. I planned on unbolting the block from the face plate and flipping it around to get the third one. But it took so much time and effort to get it all running true and centered that I would prefer not to do that again. So the setup will stay like it is in the picture until I either make a longer boring bar or come up with something else.

bruski


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## bruski (Jul 6, 2020)

I made a longer boring bar and finished line boring the mains. I then followed with a reamer through all five bearings. I plan to drill the crank for oiling of the rods so I am plotting the oil path through the block now. Probably going to make a belt driven gear pump on the front of the block that will feed the oil through a passage near the camshaft then to each center web. Since I will be using ball bearings on the front and rear crank mains, the crankshaft will be drilled to allow oil to feed the front and rear most connecting rods. Checking on the ball bearing sizes to work with the crankshaft and block now.

bruski


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## bruski (Jul 13, 2020)

The valve covers are machined now with the Demon 200cc logo on them. I still need to hand finish them and maybe anodize them red or purple are what I have on hand.

bruski


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## bruski (Aug 12, 2020)

I turned all 8 cylinders and locktited them in the block. The heads are just about done as far as the shaping and the ports and mounting holes. Still thinking about the oil passages in the block for the 3 center main bearings. The front of the block is ideal for a belt driven oil pump but the timing gears and cover are in the way of a oil passage. The rear of the block has plenty of room for oil passages. It could be driven off the distributor shaft like a chevy but the pan would need to be deeper in the rear end. Then there is a way to run the oil line down the side of the block with a passage drilled into each main bearing web. Or maybe drill a passage the length of the block and cross drill into the webs then plug the cross drilled holes on the outside.

bruski


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## bruski (Sep 19, 2020)

Steve, you mentioned a non scaling compound while heat treating the piston rings on your Demon engine. What is the brand name or type of compound that you used please?
Thanks,
bruski


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## stackerjack (Sep 20, 2020)

bruski said:


> Line boring the main bearing caps has been at the limits of my equipment on hand. I first ball milled the three center bearing webs and caps with a one inch ball mill to a depth of .460. Then installed the caps and cobbled up a way to attach the block to a face plate on center. My plan is to line bore the three center webs with a boring bar that can reach the first two without any problems but the third one is out of reach. I planned on unbolting the block from the face plate and flipping it around to get the third one. But it took so much time and effort to get it all running true and centered that I would prefer not to do that again. So the setup will stay like it is in the picture until I either make a longer boring bar or come up with something else.
> 
> bruskiView attachment 117576


One method I saw on U-Tube was to bolt the block to the cross slide. You need to make up a boring bar with bushes on the ends, which fit the block. The boring bar is then driven, via two universal joints, by the chuck. It's not that difficult, because the holes in the block doesn't need to be at centre height. The saddle is then moved along to bore the holes.


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## stevehuckss396 (Sep 20, 2020)

BROWNELLS NON-SCALING COMPOUND | Brownells
					

Saves hours of polishing, grinding, shaping - parts can be made to exact dimensions before heat treating without fear of dimension change from ...



					www.brownells.com


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## Joseph Comunale (Sep 21, 2020)

That's a neat Valve Grinding set up.   Is that part of Steve's plans?   or found elsewhere?  Can anyone send me a link to it?  ( Steve is a friend and a member of the MDMC group... great guy)


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## bruski (Sep 21, 2020)

HI Joseph,
 You must be referring to the cam grinding setup. I built that so many years ago from an article in Strickly IC magazine. I will try and find it but it might take some time to do so. Try a search for back issues of that magazine and there articles on cam grinding and see what comes up for you.
bruski


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## bruski (Nov 16, 2020)

I am still alive here. I managed to assemble all of the pistons with there rings onto the rods and have them in the cylinders now. I have been seating the rings by running the bottom end in the lathe with oil in the pan splashing to lube everything for now as there is no oil pump on the block yet.
 The pictures are of the timing gears with the idler gear not shown in the picture. It has two ball bearings in it. The other picture is of the rocker arms being machined in the first stage of there shaped profile. I will be using a .25 drill rod running through them for mounting with the pushrod seat screw as the adjustment with a lock nut on top of them.

Bruski


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## Cogsy (Nov 16, 2020)

It seems a lot of people use a similar method to you when 'seating' rings but industry suggests it is the opposite of what you want to do to actually get a well sealing ring. The combustion pressures are required to get the rings to 'bed-in' and wear into a good seal. Here's a couple of links if you want to read about the theory LINK LINK.


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## bruski (Nov 16, 2020)

Thanks for the information, there is always room to learn in my head.

Bruski


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## The_reach (Nov 17, 2020)

Interesting build, love the idea of a 2x demon v8. Have you any plans as to what to do with the model once you've completed it?

Jimmy


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## Steamchick (Nov 17, 2020)

stackerjack said:


> One method I saw on U-Tube was to bolt the block to the cross slide. You need to make up a boring bar with bushes on the ends, which fit the block. The boring bar is then driven, via two universal joints, by the chuck. It's not that difficult, because the holes in the block doesn't need to be at centre height. The saddle is then moved along to bore the holes.


Thanks Stackerjack. Rarely is this method proposed on threads like this.
This is mathematically and technically the correct way to make a parallel bore. Simply, you are describing a circle with the tool and progressing the circle along a straight line of the axis of the bore. The way it is always done in industrial manufacturing.
Personally, I simply mount the block where the tool post would normally fit, and use a boring bar -central tool - mounted between chuck and revolving tailstock. 
Or I mount a boring bar (end cutter) in my miller-driller and progress the cut vertically down through the engine block, which is mounted on the cross table. Easy!
Enjoy
K2


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## bruski (Nov 17, 2020)

Jimmy,
I don't have any plans for it in a project, it's something interesting to keep me busy in my shop and out of trouble.

Bruski


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## The_reach (Nov 17, 2020)

I've got several plan sets for various engines to start, whichever i end up doing is like to build a suitable vehicle for them, ive seen some superb rc cars with V8 motors in them but not one as big as yours, Should be a right beast indeed when it's finished!


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