# Inline 6 aircraft engine or inline 4 model aircraft engine plans required



## Alex3886

Hi, my name is Alex, and I am new to this great site.
I am looking to find some free plans for an inline 6 aircraft engine (Mercedes D.III inline 6 engine), or a scaled down version of an engine that type, like an inline 4, 4 stroke model aircraft engine like for example the O.S. IL-300 Dia-Star, Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine, 
I have already modeled a Clerget 9 B 130hp rotary aircraft engine, and now I am trying to finish modeling the full Sopwith Camel F.1 in Solidworks. After I have finished this project I want to model an Albatros D.III fighter, but for that plane I need some plans for the engine, so please could you guys help me. I am really unable to find plans for this type of engine.

Some reference photos:





Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine, 1/6-scale model built by Merritt Zimmerman





IL-300 Dia-Star





Mercedes D.III aircraft engine


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## zeeprogrammer

Welcome to the forum Alex.

I can't help you with your questions...but I sure am interested in the projects. When you find the plans I hope you start a build thread here and show us.


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## Alex3886

Thank you!
I will be happy to show my projects here


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## Alex3886

Here are some photos of my current work so far.
I hope you like them.


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## Kermit

Have you seen this site?

http://www.arizonamodels.com/index.php/cPath/27

http://www.arizonamodels.com/index.php/manufacturers_id/16







Kermit


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## Alex3886

Yes, I have seen it.
From there I got some interesting drawings for the Albatros and Sopwith Camel.
Check this out: http://www.finemodelworks.com/arizona-models/reference/


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## Lakc

As I recall there were two different scale versions of the Cirrus, at least one I know made it as plans into the pages of Strictly IC magazine. 

While inline 6 cylinders are probably out there, it becomes rather difficult to reproduce in model scale form. Both the physical length of the crankshaft and the length of the line boring involved probably contribute to their rarity.


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## Alex3886

You are right, 
There are two scale versions of the Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine, one is 1/4 scale and the other is 1/6 scale.
You can see them here on this site, along with some other great little engines: 
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/KnappCol.htm


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## GWRdriver

I have some information for you, but first, do you really think it's reasonable to expect that somewhere out there are sets of "free" plans for a highly complex model engine which someone with great intelligence, experience, skill, and perseverance would have taken years of their life to design, build, test, prove, and then draw up so that someone else could build it? Is that a reasonable expectation?

My long time mentor, J. Wilson, of Nashville TN (now deceased) designed from scratch and built a 1/10th scale model of the Mercedes D.lll in-line six engine to exact scale. His procedure was to scale the drawings based upon known dimensions from a single side and end view drawing of the engine. He would then rough-sketch the part, make the part in metal, then pencil sketch the part to scale and dimension for eventual redrawing. The process would be repeated for any part that didn't work out just right or which was less than perfect. This project spanned almost 30 years and was nearing final completion and testing when he died at age 89. His last remaining challenge was to complete the magnetos (also to scale) and he was sure that rare earth magnets would do the job. As Lakc has mentioned above the machining challenges of such a model such are enormous. One of the least of these, for example, was the camshaft oil passage which required drilling a concentric hole 1/16" in diam and around 7" deep. The engine components and all drawings still exist but unfortunately upon his death his widow locked everything up and will not allow further access to his workshop or files. This is too bad because the work should be seen, but nobody is likely to build another one anyway. There are photos and video of the project held by friends and if I can get access to any of the photos I'll post them. It was an amazing project.


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## Alex3886

That is proof of the man's great dedication to do a task to the end.
Thank you for sharing that great bit of history with us.
It would have been great to have seen his work indeed, but some thing just don't go as you expect them to go.
That is the way of life, I guess.
In my opinion life would be much better with more dedicated people like J. Wilson, but every one has a different personality and way of life.

"Scientists investigate that which already is;
Engineers create that which has never been.''
(Albert Einstein 1879-1955)


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## Proflooney

Nice drawings I have factory drawings for the Alb DII an many other WWI aircraft and would be nice to have done a mercedes. right now I am trying to find gnome rotory drawings. I just started to draw up a 3rd scale bentley BR2 in solidworks as I have factory type drawings for a sopwith snipe which was primary plane for the bentley.

I would also like to find a nice V12 aircraft planset to make one and the matching plane for it to fly.

Joe


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## ZAPJACK

Take a look there, for old fashion engines kits
www.classic-motors.at


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## crankshafter

Proflooney  said:
			
		

> Nice drawings I have factory drawings for the Alb DII an many other WWI aircraft and would be nice to have done a mercedes. right now I am trying to find gnome rotory drawings. I just started to draw up a 3rd scale bentley BR2 in solidworks as I have factory type drawings for a sopwith snipe which was primary plane for the bentley.
> 
> I would also like to find a nice V12 aircraft planset to make one and the matching plane for it to fly.
> 
> Joe


Proflooney: Open the link and you will find your V12 
http://engineman.de/plan_12zyl_eng.html
CS


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## Bill Gruby

WOW --- That V-12 is a beast. Anything that can swing a 24/10 like that is awesome.

 "Bill Gruby"


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## Alex3886

Hi there *Proflooney*.

About the Mercedes engines I would like to recommend, browsing on this site: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/index.html

This site is a great source of information, drawings, and photos about any aircraft, or aircraft engine.
They have an archive on all the flight magazine issues. In there I found some really useful information about the Mercedes 160Hp, 260hp, the 240hp inline 8 cylinder engine, and the 200hp high compression Mercedes engine.
You might find something here on the Gnome Rotary, also.
The issues have drawings, sketches about different engine components, some component dimensions, etc.
They are a good reference point.
And for the exterior of the engine block, etc I can recommend the book from Model airplane news: Best of Wylam Book 1. This book can be found free on the internet, from free pdf sites or others. 
About the Gnome engine, you can try looking in this book:Aviation Engines by Page
You can find a free copy here: http://www.archive.org/details/aviationenginesd00pagrich
And another interesting book, with some other informations:The airplane engine by Lionel S. Marks
You can find it also here: http://www.archive.org/details/airplaneengine00markuoft
I hope that these books and magazines can help you.

Cheers!


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## petertha

I hope this might help

http://cgi.ebay.com/Daimler-FlugMot...220772695105?pt=Militaria&hash=item336713fc41

Based on the lack of engine description beyond date & hp, its kind of hard to determine which specific engine this pertains to, but they used the words Daimler & Albatross

_Daimler FlugMotor Bauplan 1914 Albatross Fokker 1wk and Daimler Motor Mercedes 160 & 180 HP 1914-1918 general arrangement and detail drawings - 2 sheets full of dimensions and technical descriptions. Drawn 60+ years ago by W. A. Wylam 1947 with assistance from Msrs G. D. Angle & E. H. Sherbondy. _ 

Looks like it was re-drawn (from original or factory dwgs?) circa 1951? Hopefully the sellers could elaborate to you. Odd that the title isnt more descriptive because their other engine (and aircraft) drawings seem of very specific detail, scanned factory drawings & manuals etc. There is a lot of resource material there for serious scale builders. Check out some of the other titles in their ebay storefront under motorhead section

http://stores.ebay.com/FLUG-ARCHIV-...19075018&_sid=119633348&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322


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## petertha

Alex3886, I've been gazing at your beautiful Clerget Solidworks picture. I know enough SW to be dangerous & noted many internal parts referenced in your parts assembly tree. Is the entire engine essentially modeled? Is it something your are going to build in miniature? Can you elaborate on how you embarked on this? (example - imported background image scan of original reference drawing, or this was re-worked from another cad initiatve etc). Sorry for the thread interruption, but I'd love to see a post on your process if you ever feel ambitious!


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## Alex3886

Hi there Petertha.

It may sound a bit funny, but the initial reason of making this engine in SW, came from a little bet I had with my brother.
He challenged me to make a complete CAD assembly (complete rotary engine), and I accepted the challenge.
Then for a couple of days I searched the internet for some free plans, for the Clerget 9B 130 hp engine, and I came across some 2D drawings, drawn by Brian Dolby, you can find them here: 
http://www.modelenginenews.org/ed.2008.03.html
At first before finding them, I tried to model the engine from different diagrams, and schematics that I could find for that engine. And then with some luck I managed to find those 2D drawings.

Then after I finished the engine I had another idea, now that I have the engine, why don't I make the whole aircraft, since I am a bit of a nostalgic, and I like WW1 and WW2 aircraft, I began to look for references about the Sopwith Camel, from books like Windsock Datafiles etc. And because I like the look of the Sopwith Camel F1, the robust look of it, kind of appealed to me.
The idea of having the CAD model of them both, may serve me in the future, because I think if I have enough time, and motivation, I will make a miniature engine, by use of a CNC machine.
But at the moment I started work on another aircraft, the German Albatros D.III, because I want to make an RC 1/6 scale model of it. The reason why, is that I really like the OS IL-300 Diastar engine, it really looks like the Mercedes D.III engine. And I intend to buy one, and use it on the Albatros RC model.

The Clerget engine that I have modeled in SW, has all the essential components, on the inside, but on the outside I haven't mounted the oil pump, carburetor, and the magneto.
In those 2D drawings you can see some views of them, with a few dimensions, but without luck I haven't found some other drawings of them and I chose to let the engine as is.
If you like to work in SW, you can also model that engine, from those drawings 
It's easy!

I hope that this long post, may explain the reason of my CAD models.
In other words, at the moment it's my hobby, but soon it will be my job, because I am a mechanical engineering student, and after I get my degree this year, I would like to work as a CAD Engineer.


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## GWRdriver

Alex and others,
I have recently been contacted by the family of my old friend and mentor J. Wilson, builder of the Mercedes Six engine. His widow died earlier this year and sometime this year we will re-open his workshop. I can't predict how long it will be, none of the heirs are in a great hurry, but I expect this will give me an opportunity to photograph and document his model. I am hoping for the best of course, but humidity and lack of air circulation may have taken its toll and I fear the worst.


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## Lakc

GWRdriver  said:
			
		

> I can't predict how long it will be, none of the heirs are in a great hurry, but I expect this will give me an opportunity to photograph and document his model.



That is indeed good news. I like to think of our model engines like fine firearms, we can create them, but we never own them for long, as they should be around long after we are gone.


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## Alex3886

I tend to agree with Lakc, it is certainly good news. We all eagerly await other great news such as this.
Maybe with a bit of luck those documents, maybe intact, who knows?
We all wish you the best in the search.


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## Harry Wessels

zeeprogrammer said:


> Welcome to the forum Alex.
> 
> I can't help you with your questions...but I sure am interested in the projects. When you find the plans I hope you start a build thread here and show us.





Alex3886 said:


> Hi, my name is Alex, and I am new to this great site.
> I am looking to find some free plans for an inline 6 aircraft engine (Mercedes D.III inline 6 engine), or a scaled down version of an engine that type, like an inline 4, 4 stroke model aircraft engine like for example the O.S. IL-300 Dia-Star, Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine,
> I have already modeled a Clerget 9 B 130hp rotary aircraft engine, and now I am trying to finish modeling the full Sopwith Camel F.1 in Solidworks. After I have finished this project I want to model an Albatros D.III fighter, but for that plane I need some plans for the engine, so please could you guys help me. I am really unable to find plans for this type of engine.
> 
> Some reference photos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine, 1/6-scale model built by Merritt Zimmerman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IL-300 Dia-Star
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mercedes D.III aircraft engine


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## Harry Wessels

I have *Profi water cooled 4 and air cooled V8.

From my www.coolmodelengines.com

"Eric whittle 10cc V8 Aero engine series in Model Engineer, April 1995, 
download article with plans as 14 pd f's, patience required"
the link did not work.
I will look in my archive for the pdf files.

Haary
*


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## LSAGuy

You might want to contact this company in New Zealand:
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/
They don't do models, they do the actual aircraft. Their scratch built D5 Albatross is incredible as are their Fokker DVIII and DVII.
PBS was so impressed they did a Nova episode entitled First Air War. You can see it on Youtube:

They have collected many of the original blueprints of the aircraft and engines and offer a complete Uberussel engine for other builder/restorers. They have at least two original Mercedes D3 engines flying the Albatross and the DVII.
Don't know if they have any links to modelers but it can't hurt to ask.
Good luck,

Rick


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## RonC9876

Alex3886 said:


> You are right,
> There are two scale versions of the Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine, one is 1/4 scale and the other is 1/6 scale.
> You can see them here on this site, along with some other great little engines:
> http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/KnappCol.htm



Both of the construction articles for the two Cirrus engines are available through Strictly IC magazine. Eric Whittle wrote the one for the smaller version and I wrote the one for the quarter scale model. They can both be seen running on ronsmodelengines on YouTube.


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## Les99

GWRdriver said:


> Alex and others,
> I have recently been contacted by the family of my old friend and mentor J. Wilson, builder of the Mercedes Six engine. His widow died earlier this year and sometime this year we will re-open his workshop. I can't predict how long it will be, none of the heirs are in a great hurry, but I expect this will give me an opportunity to photograph and document his model. I am hoping for the best of course, but humidity and lack of air circulation may have taken its toll and I fear the worst.



Hi,
Just wondering if anything eventuated from this gentleman's amazing work?  I would be very interested to see what he achieved and where he obtained his information from.  I have contacted Mercedes directly, but they do not and will not release their aero engine plans to anybody.  And I know from experience that guides at museums give you a very funny look when you ask to dismantle one of their engines for measurements!    It would be a terrible shame if all of his work was trashed by his relatives.  Something for all of us to contemplate.  
Any information would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Les


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## Teus

A little late......

Back in 2011 saw at a show in the Netherlands a beautiful home build 6-cil Mercedes D.III done in 1/5th scale. I spoke to the builder who made it and the engine was in running condition. Forgot to ask his details and can't find or contact him anymore......

Enjoy,













1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...
					
















1/5th scale Mercedes D.III



__ Teus
__ Apr 28, 2019
__
albatros
d.iii
fokker
mercedes




						Seen at a show in the Netherlands in 2011. Engine was in running condition. No na,e or more...


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## Shopgeezer

RonC9876 said:


> Both of the construction articles for the two Cirrus engines are available through Strictly IC magazine. Eric Whittle wrote the one for the smaller version and I wrote the one for the quarter scale model. They can both be seen running on ronsmodelengines on YouTube.



Would you know what issues of Strictly IC these engines were in?  I lost my entire collection of the magazine in a move. I would like to buy some of the back issues  but just specific ones for projects.


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## Bronzewing

Shopgeezer said:


> Would you know what issues of Strictly IC these engines were in?  I lost my entire collection of the magazine in a move. I would like to buy some of the back issues  but just specific ones for projects.


http://www.strictlyic.com/ser01.htm will help


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## josodl1953

Hi Teus, you may post this question om Modelbouwforum. Or maybe the organiser of the show ( Stoom en techniekdag in Wijchen, by the looks of it) has still records of the participants of the show back then.

Jos


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## Teus

Hello Jos,

I tried years ago because a friend of my was very interested to build this engine but with no succes, for me this engine is out of my league...... Modelbouwforum is a NoGo for me.


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## canadianhorsepower

*1/6 SCALE DE HAVILLAND CIRRUS MK1*, by Eric Whittle.
         A 4 - Cylinder, In-Line, Glow Engine.
                        Issues: # 49, 50, 51 & 52.....$8.00ea.....TOTAL: $32.00

this is the link

http://www.strictlyic.com/ser01.htm


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## Shopgeezer

Great. Thanks for the link. When I add up all the issues for the 1/4 and 1/6 scale Cirrus, and then1/4 and 1/6 scale Kinner, its a good portion of the total issues of the entire magazine. Maybe I should just get a bank loan and buy them all.  There are 84 issues at $8.00 each. Guess it will have to be a big bank loan.


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## petertha

Maybe someone who has done some SIC builds can better comment but another thing I noticed was what Robert called 'errata' several issues after the main feature build plans/instructions were published. Sometimes it was drafting errors or issues other pointed out as they machined parts. I'm not sure if the SIC index necessarily encapsulates these sorts of amendments tucked in the back of an issue vs. the main build article. 

Some of the plans I drew up from published plans ivolved a bit of head scratching now & again. Nothing outside the model engineering norm, but just trying to give you a sense the plans may or may not be 100% vetted, ready-to-machine so to speak. They were done in a different era of drafting & lets face it, was a labor of love for what are mechanically complicated things.


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## deverett

Teus said:


> A little late......
> 
> Back in 2011 saw at a show in the Netherlands a beautiful home build 6-cil Mercedes D.III done in 1/5th scale. I spoke to the builder who made it and the engine was in running condition. Forgot to ask his details and can't find or contact him anymore......
> 
> 
> 
> That model is made from castings by Heinz Kornmuller - Classic Motors - in Austria.  I can't find his website now, so I wonder whether he is still producing his rang of castings.
> 
> Dave
> The Emerald Isle


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