# Beam engine at double scale--



## Brian Rupnow (Jul 25, 2008)

This was my work for yesterday--I took Elmers beam engine, doubled the scale, modelled it, simplified it a bit, and did a complete set of detail drawings. They are currently hosted in .jpg format on MediaFire, a free hosting site. Click the following link to download them.---Brian
http://www.mediafire.com/?bexmifnnjlu


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 27, 2008)

Holy Cow!! I just took inventory of all my short peices of brass and aluminum left over from my first two steam engines, and I have enough material to build 2/3 of my "Larger, Simpler, beam Engine".


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 27, 2008)

Well folks---Here is the first part!!! I chose to make the bearing from aluminum, because that is what I had. I made it as per the drawing, except that instead of 3 1/4" long, I made it 3 3/8" long, and drilled the crankshaft hole out with a 1/2" diameter drill. I pressed and loctited two peices of 1/2" diameter brass into the holes, and will drill and ream them for the 1/4" diameter crankshaft. I set my calculator in the picture to give some idea of scale.--It looks like it is going to be a fair size.


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## GailInNM (Jul 27, 2008)

Brian,
I thought you were going to take a week off so some of us could get a head start on you. ;D

I started at the other end from you and did a cylinder. I made it out of cast iron so I could lap it. The better the finish on the cylinder and valve, the slower it will run. While not impossible, it is hard to lap a blind hole, so I bored the cylinder block out to 9/16 and made a liner out of cast iron to insert in it. Liner is lapped before installation. I cut away part of the cylinder mounting stud so a lap could pass through the block to lap the valve bore. I rough cut some scrap cast iron to make the valve pistons and am planning to make the valve a built up assembly with the cast iron pistons installed on a steel rod. The power piston and cylinder head will also be cast iron. I chose cast iron for all of this as it has a very low coefficient of friction and the only oil it needs when operating on air is enough to prevent rust. I also like cast iron. It machines nice, other than being messy, and is relatively cheap. 

Other changes I plan on is to use 10-32 to replace 10-24 threads. I just like fine threads and I also have lots of 10-32 hardware. I will increase the bearing height as you have done so I can put 1/4 X 1/2 ball races in. I have a box full of them from a surplus buy. I am sure other changes will creep in also. 

When you get to the cylinder, consider putting a liner in as it will be hard to get a good finish on that deep a blind hole. If you want to take the easy way out, use 17/32 K&S brass tubing for the cylinder liner and 9/32 to line the valve bore. It has 0.014 wall and is very round and has a nice finish on the bore. It would mean that your piston and valve would increase by about 0.003 inch as it is not quite 1/64 wall thickness. I have used in in the past and it works quite well. If you do this, make the bore in the block a slightly loose fit so you don't distort the tubing. Use a stud/bearing mount grade of Loctite (609/640/680 etc) to install them.

Enjoy your time off.
Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 28, 2008)

Gail--wife and I are going travelling today, I had a few hours to kill yesterday afternoon, while wife made arrangements for 2 of our adult kids to come and house sit. I have never worked with cast iron, in fact I'm not even sure where I would go to buy it. The tooling I have for my mill is off shore stuff, and I find that anything other than brass or steel dulls the cutters amazingly fast.


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## Bogstandard (Jul 28, 2008)

Brian,

I wouldn't worry about cast iron, it cuts really nice, no lube required as the carbon in the iron makes it self lubricating. 
But it is filthy stuff to work with, the dust gets everywhere.

If you are buying it from a metal factors it should come ready to go. If from other sources, the very hard outside 'skin' has to be roughed off before you are into the good stuff. 

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 31, 2008)

Gail---Or anyone else---Question!!! What is the best way to accurately measure and set up for the smaller (valve) bore in the cylinder block? I understand how to lay out the position of the bore for the cylinder on the end of the block, how to set it up in my 4 jaw chuck on the lathe, and how to drill and bore the cylinder hole. The question comes in when I go to "set over" the block in my 4 jaw chuck to do the bore and ream for the valve. Since there is no measuring dial associated with the 4 jaw chuck, do I loosen off one of the jaws by the required amount and tighten the opposite jaw to slide the peice over and align the center of the valve hole with the drill in the tailstock? If that is the method, then I guess I should lay out the position of the valve hole at the same time that I lay out the position of the cylinder hole, so that I can line it up "by eye" in the chuck. Is this correct, or is there a better method?---Brian


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## kvom (Jul 31, 2008)

Can't you drill it on your mill?


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## GailInNM (Jul 31, 2008)

Brian,
I did my power bore with a boring head in the milling machine and also drilled and reamed the valve hole on the milling machine.

I have done other things on the lathe with a 4 jaw and this is how i did it. I know you are beyond some of this, but a short tutorial may help some one that is not there yet. 

Lay out all your holes with what ever you have at your shop. This can range from just a pair of calipers used to scribe lines in a blued surface using the edges of the part as reference to using a surface plate and height gauge. For this engine the location of the holes will not be all that critical, but it will be good practice to try to locate them a accurately as possible so the a project that comes up where the are critical you will know how to do it and have had some practice.

With a very small center punch, lightly prick the scribed intersections. Look at your punch mark and if it is not on the intersection, it can be moved a bit by punching deeper with the punch held at an angle. Once your punch mark are in location, deepen them a little bit. It does not have to be much. Twenty or thirty thousands is more than enough. 

There are commercial wigglers made to help locate things, but I just use a piece of 1/8 diameter music wire that has been sharpened to a point that approximates the angle of the center punch. Make it about a foot long. Any sharpened small diameter rod will work, it does not have to be music wire.

To locate the marks on center your 4 jaw, first locate by eye with the jaws tightened lightly. Then put what ever you are using for a wiggler in the tailstock a bring it up to enter the punch mark on the part It wants to seat, but not put much pressure on the part. When you rotate the chuck, either by hand or at low speed under power the end of the rod will move around in a circle. If you are doing this under power, you can touch the rod with a marker, like a Sharpie, to locate the side of part that needs to move towards the center of the chuck. Readjust the chuck, wipe of the mark from the marker and repeat until get very little movement on the end of the rod. Then put a dial indicator in the tool post and rest the end of plunger on the rod near the part. You could also use a dial test indicator here, but it seems easier to me to use a dial indicator. Rotate the chuck by hand and you can see which way the part needs to move in the jaws. The object is to be able to rotate the chuck a full revolution with out the indicator moving. Snug up the jaws to working pressure on the part, but keep checking with the indicator to keep the punch mark centered.

After you have done this a few time it will take you a lot less time to locate a part that it took me to write this.
Gail in NM,USA

PS: Are you home to start work on your toy now? And did you have a good time on your holiday?


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes. we came home this morning. This is the first year in about 10 years that we haven't taken a major trip to somewhere. We just travelled around Ontario, went to see a fellow that I started engineering work with back in 1965, went and visited my mother who will be 88 in August and lives about 150 miles from me. Wife and I are both wiped out, didn't sleep to well in Bed and Breakfast---wasn't their fault, just not used to strange bed. I plan on getting into the beam style engine now. I will probably do both the cylinder holes in my milling machine. If I had used my lathe I would have used the method which you described---thank you for the excellent write-up. I will be doing the beam next, probably do the cylinder in a couple of days.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 31, 2008)

Well Dang!!! Ain't we gettin' fancy!!! I think I'm getting this milling business figured out. I still have more work to do on the beam for this engine, (and I know those cut-outs aren't on the plans I posted.)--However, the other dimensions are all exactly the same. Now if I can just do the rest of the required work without frigging up what I've done already------(and Oh Yeah--I used brass because thats what I had)--aluminum would be just as good.)


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 1, 2008)

Another part done.---No disasters on the last bit of machining on both sides, but I did have to build a fixture to mount the part on in the lathe. There was nearly as much work in making the fixture as there was in making the part. A bit of polishing now, and this part is finished.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 3, 2008)

And for Sunday mornings amazing stunt---a column!! Again, slight departure from the plans that were posted, but dimensionally the same. I used a 1/2" milling cutter to put the slot in the top end, and just left the 1/4" rad in the corners of the slot. I also decided that a taper would look better where the round portion of the column transitions into the rectangular shape at both ends.---Brian


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## Powder keg (Aug 3, 2008)

Looking good Brian.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 4, 2008)

We have a cylinder!! And this time, I did follow the drawing exactly. I had one mini-disaster when drilling the 0.080" diameter holes thru to the cylinder bore----the darn drill broke off below the surface when I was drilling the hole closest to the bottom of the cylinder. I was able to drill thru from the other side of the brass block, and pop it out with a very small drift punch. This is not really a big deal, as there are some holes in this cylinder that will have to be pugged anyways. I will put up a seperate post about which holes are plugged, how I do it, and at that time I will show how I attach the inlet steam port to the center hole half way down the cylinder body.---Brian


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## b.lindsey (Aug 4, 2008)

Brian,

This is looking great. I think the cutouts in the beam will add a lot of character as well. Looking forward to following the thread and more pics.

Bill


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 5, 2008)

I feel a bit like that song that Roy Clark used to sing on Hee-Haw---"If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all-----Doom, despair, and agony on me---". Three weeks ago I got the deal of the century on a used 14" metal cutting bandsaw. Last week it quit!! I phoned around and quickly found out that a new 3/4 HP 1750 RPM motor costs close to $300. I took off the motor, hot wired it, and it ran okay.--Then I played detective, and began isolating components untill I determined that the switch was bad. A new $10 switch fixed it, thank the Lord. Today was my first day back to work in my engineering office, and at quiting time I decided to mill out the base for the beam engine from a peice of 3/4" copper plate that I had. Not heavy milling---just squaring up edges which I had sawed out with my bandsaw. Now the friggin' mill has gave up the ghost on me. Lights come on but motor will not run!! I looked for a thermal reset switch on the motor, but there doesn't seem to be one.---It appears to be a D.C. motor with brushes---maybe a brush is hung up in its holder. I will call Busy Bee in the morning and get there insights, as this mill is less than 3 months old, and is guarenteed. I just HATE it when new machinery (Heck, even used machinery) quits on me---


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 7, 2008)

Things are not good!!! I have to load the mill into my truck and take it to Toronto, to have it repaired. They seem to think that the circuit board for the DC controller may be fried, but they can not diagnose it by telephone. And they don't make housecalls!!! This is definately going to put a cramp into my steam engine building for a while.


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## CrewCab (Aug 7, 2008)

Brian ............... the service/warranty sucks imho............ :-\ .......... or have I missed something 

To be fair I can't really comment from experience as unfortunately, most things we buy (if they are going to break down) usually do so at abut 54 weeks old :wall:

Good luck mate 

CC


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 7, 2008)

Well---This is cheap Chinese stuff we are talking about here. There is no service contract. The machine is gauranteed, but only if I deliver it to BusyBee head office in Toronto, and then pick it up after it is repaired. Thank God that I only live an hour outside Toronto.--There are many regions in Ontario 8 or 10 hours from Toronto that have BusyBee sales outlets---I wonder what happens when their customers machinery breaks down??????????


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 7, 2008)

Ah Well---Onward and upward. My mill is down right now, and must be returned to manufacturer for repairs to the circuit board, however, the lathe is still in fine mettle. The flywheel is built exactly as per the drawing, and other than some polishing is good to go. My progress on this steam engine is going to suffer for a bit now untill I get the mill repaired, but I will still work on anything that can be turned.


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## Bogstandard (Aug 7, 2008)

Brian,



> Well---This is cheap Chinese stuff we are talking about here



A lot of the importers of Chinese machinery in the UK, boast that the machines have circuit boards that are made in the USA.

Is this the case with machines imported into the States?, or are you still getting the inferior Chinese offerings?

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 7, 2008)

John--I don't have the foggiest idea!!! The woman who runs the BusyBee store in my city would be totally at home selling brassiers or high heeled shoes, but she doesn't know squat about the machines that they sell. The machines are quite nice actually, but the only person who professes to know anything about them is the customer service fellow at their head store in Toronto---and he is an east Indian. This makes me totally crazy, but its the way it is here.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 8, 2008)

So---I took my milling machine to Toronto this afternoon, to the BusyBee head office.--Met Amin, the head of customer service, and Nash the Slash, his right hand man. I explained the problem to them (motor doesn't run) and left it there. An hour after I returned home, I got a phone call from Amin---The motor was burned out--they have replaced it with a new motor---fully gauranteed, no charge to me, I can pick it up tomorrow. Other than the agravation of driving 80Km to Toronto, I would say that is fairly good service.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 8, 2008)

I received email confirmation today that my four 8" diameter polishing buffs have been shipped to me from the Eastwood company in the USA. These people are a supplier to the hotrod industry, and I have an old set of buffs that I got from them many years ago, but are now completely worn out. When I bought them about 20 years ago, I also bought the 4 grades of buffing wax in stick form, white rouge, tripoli, stainless, and emery, and the instructions on what to use where. I was very satisfied with their product, and polished many shiny things over the years for various hotrods I have built. Now I hope to bling up this beam engine as I build it.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 9, 2008)

Now this is really neat, if I can make it work on here. I put a virtual motor on the 3D cad assembly of the beam engine, then saved it as a .avi file. I hope this works---Brian 

View attachment BEAM ENGINE.avi


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 10, 2008)

So---Today we have a base, machined from copper (cause thats what I had)!! Miserable friggin stuff to machine, in my opinion.---Won't use it again. (famous last words). Its a good thing this is a hobby. or else I might have to charge $10,000 for one of these things if I was going to sell it. I have about 12 hours work in this dumb base. It is definitly coming together, and I do like the size its turning out to be. I think it will look pretty fabulous when I polish all the component parts.---speaking of parts, that base was the last "big" part---all thats left now is all the "fiddly" stuff.---Brian


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## GailInNM (Aug 10, 2008)

Looking good Brian!
My version from your drawings got slowed down due to a massive power surge screwing up all sorts of electronics around the shop. Power substation caught fire and things went wild. Probably caused as much delay as your machinery problems. All is well now so I can get back to building toys instead of fixing things.

When I get a little more done, I will start a separate thread so people don't get too confused looking at two different builds of more or less the same build in the same thread. 

Gail in NM,USA


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## Philjoe5 (Aug 11, 2008)

Looking good Brian. Although you had a time with it, the copper base is a nice contrast. :bow:

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 11, 2008)

Not a whole lot of progress today. I did manage to whittle out this large end for the eccentric rod, exactly as per drawing. My next amazing stunt will be to make the eccentric hub, and yes, I'm a bit worried about that one. I haven't made an eccentric before. I know the theory, but now we get to see where the theory and the reality meet.


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## Divided He ad (Aug 11, 2008)

Looks good to me Brian... all of it! ;D 

Don't know about the eccentrics myself.. Can't be that hard to do! Loads of people make 'em!! ;D 

I must make a start on my next engine... just clearing the decks of all my other projects and promises first!.... should be on the new one by September!!

Looking forward to seeing the final result  




Ralph.


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## GailInNM (Aug 11, 2008)

Brian,
If you haven't started the eccentric hub yet, you might want to think about making it as two parts. I just finished mine a couple of days ago. I made the eccentric part as just a plain turning and then put the shaft hole in on the mill with the shaft hole offset 3/16 inch and added two holes for 2-56 screws to screw it to the hub. This also let me put a small flange on the side of the eccentric away from the flywheel to keep the eccentric strap centered. I did this because the eccentric strap will try to walk back and forth because of the offset in the eccentric rod.
Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 11, 2008)

Well, so far this eccentric business is working out just like the books say it should---Now if I can just do the rest of it without messing anything up---


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 11, 2008)

Sorry Gail--I guess we were both posting at the same time. I know what you mean about the eccentric strap walking back and forth, I noticed that when I did the plans. If it is a real problem, I will machine a thin brass "spacer washer" to put between the end of the hub and the inside of the bearing to keep things located.---Brian


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## GailInNM (Aug 11, 2008)

Brian,
It's just that you are quicker at making parts than I am at typing. ;D
It looks good Brian.
Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 12, 2008)

Well, that went very good,all things considered. The eccentric hub is very close to being finished, and is exactly as per drawing. I machined the 1/2" diameter for a fairly hard press fit into the flywheel, coated it with Loctite 638, and pressed it into place. I have decided that for sake of concentricity and runout, that I will drill and ream the bore in the hub after the loctite sets up for 24 hours. That way I can hold the outer diameter of the flywheel in my 3 jaw chuck, register the side of the flywheel tight against the 3 chuck jaws, and then drill and ream it. That SHOULD ensure that all is concentric and has very little or no runout.


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## mklotz (Aug 13, 2008)

Three jaw chucks just aren't that accurate and even a small eccentricity will be very noticeable in a flywheel.

Since you already have all those convenient holes in your flywheel, bolt it to your faceplate and use an indicator on the rim to get it running dead true before you drill.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 13, 2008)

For todays offering, we have a crankshaft, built exactly as per drawing. The shafts have to be trimmed to length yet, but the brass part is done and the silver soldering went well. I drilled and reamed the hole thru the eccentric hub in my 3 jaw chuck, and as far as I can tell. it runs true. I know Mklotz is correct about the 4 jaw chuck and indicator being more accurate, but the 3 jaw is a lot less hassle.


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## NickG (Aug 14, 2008)

The thing is, you might notice it when it's running and it'll really annoy you, or it would me! On smaller engines you get vibration too if they are running fast but on a slow running beam engine that won't matter. You could always now turn a custom arbor in the 3 jaw, mount the flywheel on it and take a final cut to ensure concentricity.

Nick


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 14, 2008)

Not a whole lot of progress today. One connecting rod clevis, exactly as per drawing. I actually made this part twice---I was half finished the first time and the end mill grabbed and yanked it out of the vice, wrecked the part, and scared the Bejabbers out of me, but it didn't break the endmill and didn't hurt me.---Sure did an ugly number on the brass part though!!!! I'm back to work now, my vacation is over, and my real job (designing machinery) is interfering with my play job, (building steam engines)!!! Now I have to squeeze machining time into my lunch hour and evening.


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## Bogstandard (Aug 15, 2008)

Brian,

Sure you didn't succumb to a bit of climb milling? 
It sounded like you did, with the description you gave.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 15, 2008)

John--I think thats exactly what happened!! I was milling a slot---little bit off one side, then a little bit off the other after shifting the table to mill the other side and not be climb milling---I think on the 15th pass I had a brain fart and forgot to shift the table, and "whammo"!!!


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## Bogstandard (Aug 15, 2008)

It happens to us all.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 15, 2008)

Today I finished the connecting rod that runs from the throw on the flywheel shaft up to the rocking beam. This entailed a bit of silver soldering, a bit of threading, a bit of milling, and a bit of reaming.--A lot of different operations for such a simple part.---Of course I had to put a couple of drill bits into the pivot points and make everything go around, just to see it work-----. I thought an assembly shot was called for while I had it all together. The bits that I finished today were all made as per drawing.


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## NickG (Aug 15, 2008)

I'm not too keen on the drill bits, doesn't look quite right! :big:


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 15, 2008)

This beam engine is comparatively huge---To give a sense of scale, the engine setting in the foreground of the picture is one of Elmers single acting wobblers, the first engine that I built. It is built according to the plans that I downloaded from the internet, at the scale given on the downloaded drawings.


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## Divided He ad (Aug 16, 2008)

Looking good Brian, not too long and it should be bobbing along like a good un! ;D

Your right about the size!  That little wobbler is the same size as my 'Baldy' (that's my engine : )
I think the drills look fine.... at least you know the shafts are ground  I know a few farmers who would drive full size machinery round with drill bits and nails etc holding them together.... So why not a model engine :big: 

Isn't it a pain when work gets in the way of a good project! But you still seem to be motoring along.



Looking forward to the running,



Ralph.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 16, 2008)

Ralph---Thank you for your response. I try and get some machining done each day, but its difficult now that I am back to work full time at my regular job. I am a little dissapointed at how few people have responded to this thread, I thought there would have been more interest. I know that Gail in New Mexico is making the same engine, as he does post here occasionally. I know what you mean about farmers. My first wife was a farmers daughter, and we lived in a rural farming community. I seen much the same thing you did, and I could never figure out if farmers were too cheap to fix anything correctly, or if it was just that they were so darned busy all the time that they grabbed anything to get the job fixed immediately so they could keep on working. I know that I got up at 7:00 to drive to my office job, and the farmers would be out in the fields working when I was driving to work, and still out working when I drove home, and still out working when I went to bed.---and many of them had an 8 hour day job in a factory as well so that they could afford to keep their farms running.---Definitly not the life for me---


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## JohnS (Aug 16, 2008)

Brian

I've been following your posts on the beam engine with with particular interest as I am thinking of doing something similar with one of Elmers famous engines http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/33_mill.pdf. 

I built this engine at normal scale but, like you, I fancy upping the size. 





Not sure whether to double up as you have done or go for a more modest increase of 50%. One concern is the volume of air (or steam ?) required. What are your thoughts on this for your beam engine ?

I'm really looking forward to seeing yours in action - I expect you are too !

John S


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 16, 2008)

John---I am not too worried about the air/steam consumption. I build hotrods as a hobby, so consequently I have a great big twin cylinder air compressor with a 50 gallon holding tank in my shop. I think it could probably power a full sized steam engine.---brian


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## Divided He ad (Aug 16, 2008)

Brian... I'd not worry about the response, You have had 1347 hits to my count! That's a lot of looking!! So it's not such a case of interest... more stuck dumb!?!?  


I know that many people like to just take in the details of what you are building, I've written posts and been disappointed by the interaction.I've read many posts and found I had nothing to contribute!! That's just how it works... If you had started it in a month there might have been 10 more people chipping in?!

Still the fact of the matter remains that your building a mighty fine looking machine there and no one can take that from you! ;D 

I personally want to see what it looks like when you shine it up a little..... I love shiny 8) ;D 

Take heart man.... The runner is in sight  




Ralph.


John... go on build it 150% just for fun!!! (ask Bog's... he can help with the flywheel on his new machines.... When they're in ;D )... Oh just worked that out... That would be massive....maybe 70%


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## Bogstandard (Aug 16, 2008)

Brian,

As Ralph said, it might just be the time of year. Holidays, Olympics etc etc.

Another thing, is that you are doing something slightly out of the norm, if you had built it normal size, like most people do, members would have given an input, but as it is, you are in fact building a prototype, and I have found, until it is at the finished stage, everyone then wakes up and comments. Until it is finished you will just get the odd comment or query.
I for one read every post that comes onto here, but I don't answer every one.

Four pages of posts, and you are still not finished, is doing rather well in my opinion.

Just keep at it, and recognition for all your hard work will be there.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 16, 2008)

Now I have a mistake to fix. When I drilled and reamed the eccentric hub in the flywheel, I set everything up properly in the lathe, and proceeded to drill the hub with a drill which was slightly less than the reamer diameter, then reamed to a finished 1/4" bore.--But wait---The reamer didn't seem to be cutting anything!!!! I checked the drill bit again, and though it was less than the reamer diameter, it wasn't much less, and the drill has a slight bend in it. Of course, with the drill setting stationary in the tailstock chuck, the bend wasn't visible.--The result of this, was that the hole I so carefully prepared is about .008 oversize. Normally this is something that I could live with---it doesn't show when the flywheel rotates---but---The long rod that runs from the eccentric to the valve cross shaft thru the far end of the base now moves from side to side about 1/4" due to the runout between the center of the eccentric hub axis and the true centerline of the crankshaft axis. The tighter I tighten the setscrew in the eccentric hub, the more pronounced this runout gets. I think what I will do to fix this is drill the hub out to 5/16" dia. in the lathe, press fit and loctite a solid steel shaft into the hole, then redrill it with a straight drill bit and ream it to 1/4" again.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 16, 2008)

Well, like the doc says, "I got some good news, and I got some bad news." The good news is that this morning I finished the long bent rod that runs from the eccentric strap out to the valve actuator cross shaft at the far end of the base, and also finished the brass end for the rod. They were both built exactly to the drawings I posted the link to. The bad new is contained in the previous post, where I screwed up the bore in the eccentric hub by making it oversized. Now when I rotate the flywheel and crankshaft, the rod end not only moves back and forth 3/8" like it is supposed to, it also swings about 1/4" side to side, which it is definitly not supposed to. However, with the help of Loctite and Craftex, I'll fix that.---Brian


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## agr (Aug 17, 2008)

Brian,

I too have been following your posts with interest but have not chosen to comment - partly because work/family keep me so busy that I barely get time to even keep up with reading most of the posts on this fabulous site, but mainly because I feel I have nothing to contribute, but much to learn.

I am fast becoming aware of the advantages of scaling up design. Tonight I managed to find some time for the shop to attempt to progress my "full size" elmer beam only to find that 'small and fiddle' can also mean 'easily bent/broken'.

I look forward to seeing your completed engine.

Tony


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## Kludge (Aug 17, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> I am a little dissapointed at how few people have responded to this thread, I thought there would have been more interest.



Brian, I can't speak for everyone but I've read this with rapt fascination and with notepad in hand. Watching your progress is an educational experience for me - seeing how you resolve problems and just generally go about the process of building the engine. The fact that I have a particular fondness for walking beam engines (especially ones with wooden beams) has absolutely nothing to do with this. ;D



> I seen much the same thing you did, and I could never figure out if farmers were too cheap to fix anything correctly, or if it was just that they were so darned busy all the time that they grabbed anything to get the job fixed immediately so they could keep on working.



Farmers had (and I guess still have) one goal - get the job done. Their solutions to pesky little problems were elegant in simplicity based on materials on hand at the time though not in any form of engineering precision as often as not. Over Winter, while the machines weren't being used, they _might_ repair them properly or just go with the idea that what field repair they made is good enough to leave alone. I grew up surrounded by farms and made a little money repairing machines on a more permanent basis when they were done for the year. (Well, "money" isn't really accurate ... farm-made cheese, sausage and the like were far preferable on both sides of the bargain. ) That's also where I learned about thermite welding. That was exciting.

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 17, 2008)

Fellows--Thank you all for the kind words. Its nice to know that people are indeed reading this thread. I enjoy this building and posting business, and I hope sincerely that I can either show something that you haven't seen before, teach something, or at the very least provide some interesting entertainment. For me this is all very exciting, and I am having a lot of fun with this.---Brian.


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## kvom (Aug 17, 2008)

I too have been reading all the posts. This engine is one of the 2-3 "contenders" for my first build once my shop build is ready.


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## dsquire (Aug 17, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> . . . .
> I am a little dissapointed at how few people have responded to this thread,
> . . . .
> I know what you mean about farmers. My first wife was a farmers daughter, and we lived in a rural farming community. I seen much the same thing you did, and I could never figure out if farmers were too cheap to fix anything correctly, or if it was just that they were so darned busy all the time that they grabbed anything to get the job fixed immediately so they could keep on working. I know that I got up at 7:00 to drive to my office job, and the farmers would be out in the fields working when I was driving to work, and still out working when I drove home, and still out working when I went to bed.---and many of them had an 8 hour day job in a factory as well so that they could afford to keep their farms running.---Definitly not the life for me---



Brian

I have been following your double scale beam build on a daily basis. While I don't make a lot of posts, I do subscribe to a lot of threads and do a lot of reading. I am in Kitchener, Ontario, so am not that far away from you.

I am retired and lovin it. I grew up in farm country and lived and worked on farms part of my life. It is a great life being a farmer but it's not for everyone. When it came to machinery repairs, some farmers had a large sledge hammer, pipe wrench and baleing wire. Others had the lathe, milling machine and all the wrenches. They both managed to get the job done and put food on OUR table. I guess that farming must be the best job in the world. Why else would they work the hours that they do for the income that they get.

I was very impressed by your full time day job as well Brian. I worked as a design draftsman for a number of years so can understand your job to some extent.

I know that sometimes your regular job can get in the way but don't forget to take time to smell the roses.

Cheers

Don


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## Philjoe5 (Aug 17, 2008)

Sorry for the late post but I just got back from a 4 day show in Kinzers, PA. First off, Brian I've been keenly interested in this post having just completed an engine with a 50% scaleup from a set of plans myself. I keep reading about your progress and am getting some good ideas from what you've accomplished.

On the subject of compressor capacity, I have a Craftsman 2 gallon, 1 hp compressor. It will power my scaled up engine just fine. FWIW, my engine has 60 cc of displacement and I can run it at 120 rpm with the compressor running at about a 50% duty cycle (the maximum recommended).

Keep posting,

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 17, 2008)

I spent this morning making "fiddly bits"---The valve actuator lever, the cross shaft, and the shaft that hooks up with the rod from the eccentric. There is a lot of work in that little brass lever---and then in a fit of misguided enthusiasm I drilled and reamed the hole for the cross shaft to 1/4" diameter instead of 3/16" like the drawing calls for!!! Jeez, I hate it when I misread my own drawings. Not wanting to remake the part, I took a peice of 1/4" cold rolled shaft, turned it to 3/16" diameter except for the last 1/4" that fits into the lever, and silver soldered it into place. It looks fine, and nobody will ever know except me and the gazillion people that read these internet postings. I took the afternoon off and went to a hotrod show with my 31 Model A roadster pickup. (won third place for "best street rod")--It was actually a sunny afternoon---we've only had about 3 sunny afternoons all summer here.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 17, 2008)

Someone on another forum asked about my "other" hobby----hotrodding. This is my current hotrod. I have been building cars, showing cars, and drag racing for over 40 years now. Back when the earth was young, in the sixties, I ran a rail dragster with a 455 Olds engine in it. I built this car 4 years ago. Since I have had every other style of model A that old Henry built, I decided to go for a roadster pickup this time around. Roadster pickups are scarcer than hens teeth in Canada, so I built this one from a 2 door sedan. I shortened the sedan body about 5 feet, cut the top off, molded the tops of the doors and the top of the cab at the belt line, and built the box from scratch. I boxed the original frame, designed my own 4 bar parallel link suspension front and rear, and kept everything on a stock 103 1/2" model A wheelbase. I'm running a 4" dropped I-beam front axle with a transvere leaf spring with reversed eyes, a 1998 S10 rearend, and a small block Chev V8 with a turbo 350 automatic. The cab is 6" longer than a stock model A pickup, and the box is about 18" shorter than stock. I do all my own chassis building, bodywork, and paint. I designed and built the convertible top and top frame, however I had the actual sewing of the top done by someone else. I have a room full of trophies that I have won with this car, but I needed a break from hotrodding, so I bought the lathe and mill and started building model steam engines about 6 months ago.---Brian


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## Kludge (Aug 17, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Someone on another forum asked about my "other" hobby----hotrodding.



*whimper* ... That brings back some memories! I never built or owned one myself (I drooled over quite a few, though) but I used to have a "magic ear" for tuning, which pleased the owner of the first garage I worked in even though he wasn't sure about having a reputation as a "hotrod garage". On the other hand, I brought business and he liked that part.

Someday, I'll put in my blog what would have happened to my International straight truck if I'd been able to keep driving for a living. 

Thanks for the memories, Brian ... 

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 18, 2008)

No magnificent progress today, but I did get one more "fiddly bit" made---The LOWER VALVE LEVER. It is made as per drawing. I'm not certain that a single #10-24 set screw is going to lock it to the shaft sufficiently, but then again, there will be very little load on it, as all it does is shift the steam valve, which should slide very freely in the cylinder. I may get bold this evening and redo the bore in the eccentric hub..


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## CrewCab (Aug 18, 2008)

Hi Brian, I've been away for a few days but it's good to be back and catch up, your engine build is one I've been following with interest ;D ........... to be fair I'm amazed how you manage to get so much done as well as having a full time job/business to run etc ....... perhaps a "time management" workshop would be a useful thread ........ I know it would be good for me  ;D 

It all looks to be coming together well and I'm sure it will be up and running pretty soon ............. one non-technical question mind, there apears to be a few marks on the copper base .......... or is it my monitor / eyesight ???

atb ........... please keep posting Brian, we are all really enjoying it 

Dave


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 18, 2008)

Crewcab---That copper is horrible stuff to machine--it doesn't just cut--it smears. The copper was 3/4" thick to begin with, and I used a 1" four flute end mill to reduce it to 5/8" thickness. Those swirly marks are the finish that is left after machining. I am pretty certain that they will polish out. I got my 4 new 8" diameter buffing pads from Eastwood today, so I plan on an all out 'BlingJob" when I get all the machining finished.---Brian


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## rake60 (Aug 18, 2008)

Brian as of this moment this thread has been read 1581 times.

That should show the interest it has developed. 

I know I'm looking in on it every day.

Rick


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 18, 2008)

rake60  said:
			
		

> Brian as of this moment this thread has been read 1581 times.
> 
> That should show the interest it has developed.
> 
> ...


It must be generating some interest---I just checked the site that my download link for the plans connects to, and the plans have been downloaded over 400 times.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 19, 2008)

Well Sir!!! I'm as happy as a pig in mud!! (And thats happy). I set the flywheel and eccentric hub up in my lathe last night, and drilled the hub out to 5/16" diameter. I then machined a peice of mild steel (actually the shank of a 3/8" bolt) to slightly greater than the 5/16" hole, coated it with loctite 638, and with my bigger meaner hammer I "force fit" the new peice into the hub. I left it up on my bandsaw all night with a 100 Watt bulb shining on it for heat. Today at noon (on my lunch break of course) I reversed the jaws in my 3 jaw chuck, gripped the flywheel by the outer diameter, and made sure it was dead tight up against the face of the chuck jaws, then center drilled it, drilled it with a 7/32" drill, and then reamed it with my 1/4" reamer. I then set it up in my mill/drill and with a 0.153 drill, I went thru the existing 10-24 setscrew hole and drilled out the new "sleeve" and retapped it. It runs very true now, with no wobble at all.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 19, 2008)

A fellow known as Georgo on the Home and shop Machinist forum has found an error on 2 of my drawings. The thread on the end of the piston rod should be 5-40 and the thread in the piston should be 5-40. I haven't made those parts yet, so hadn't found the mistake. I will post this information on the websites that I am running. ---Thank You Georgo---If anybody else notices anything fishy, please let me know.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 19, 2008)

New piston and piston rod drawings


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 22, 2008)

No, I haven't abdicated, nor ran off with the milk maid. I was at an all day custom car show on wednesday with my hotrod, and then had to work like a fool all day yesterday on real "work stuff" to get caught up. In the picture you will see that I have finished the "PISTON GUIDE ROD" and the "PISTON GUIDE ROD SUPPORT" and added them to the model. They are both built exactly to the drawings. Just for a hoot, this morning I hooked the electric drill onto the crankshaft, and ran the machine at a low RPm. It sure does look pretty with that beam going up and down, and the rod that goes over to operate the valve doing its thing, along with the flywheel rotating and the orbit performed by the rod that runs from the crankshaft up to the end of the beam. I think this is going to be a really neat engine to see running under its own power.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 22, 2008)

This afternoon I was finished my "real work" early, so spent a few hours doing "play work". I have been a bit worried about the cylinder head, as it is one of those things that require doing a set-up in the 4 jaw chuck, as the diameter that fits down into the cylinder is offset from the square cylinder shape. I could have cheated and turned up a large peice in the 3 jaw chuck, then trimmed the flanges to achieve the offset, but I had a small length of 1" x 1/2" brass bar stock left in my stockpile of brass bits. It is against my nature to rush out and buy anything new, if I can utilize a bit of scrap. It turned out okay, and it is a perfect fit onto the cylinder. Maybe over the weekend I will whittle out a piston and valve to fit in the cylinder.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 22, 2008)

Things have progressed on the "beam engine at double scale" to a point where I want to see things going round and round and up and down--- I have taken great care to get very exact fits on all my mating parts, and therein lays the problem. I could turn the flywheel by hand, but it took considerable effort, and there was absolutely no "coast" to it at all. I tried some lightweight oil on all the rotating surfaces, but no dice. Now, I haven't made the piston and rod yet, but I have machined up some mild steel pins to replace the drill bits that appear in the pictures in my build thread. So---I figure if I don't get things rolling smoother than that, it isn't going to work. It was plain to see that the engine had to be "run in". How do you "run in" an engine that doesn't yet have the piston and valve made??? Well, inspiration---I chucked my 3/8" variable speed drill onto the extended end of the crankshaft, and let it run at a fairly slow speed for 15 minutes!!! 7 minutes of clockwise rotation, and about 8 minutes of counterclockwise rotation. Holy cow!!! What a difference it made. Now I can make it run like a finger engine by pressing on the piston end of the beam. If I give the flywheel a spin by hand, it will actually make about 3 revolutions, driving the beam up and down and operating the eccentric rod and the valve actuator levers and shafts. Tomorrow I will machine the piston and valve---I'm starting to get excited, wanting to see this puppy run!!!


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## Bernd (Aug 22, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> I have taken great care to get very exact fits on all my mating parts, and therein lays the problem. I could turn the flywheel by hand, but it took considerable effort, and there was absolutely no "coast" to it at all.



The problem is called "tool makers disease". If you make very tight fits on a steam engine it has a hard time running from all the friction. 

A friend of mine once built a steam engine and made it to tight tolerances. He applied steam and it failed to run once heated up because the parts grew a bit and caused more friction. Usually a steam engine needs a bit of "sloppiness" built in to run.

Nice job on that engine. I'm sure it'll be a fine runner once it's been run a while. You got the idea of getting it broke in with the drill motor, so keep at it. 

Regards,
Bernd


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## Kludge (Aug 22, 2008)

Brian, this is one heck of a wonderful learning experience watching you go step by step through the engine's construction and handling the little irritations that come along en route. I can't speak for anyone else, but I am utterly fascinated!

Best regards,

Kludge ... waiting for the next installment!


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 23, 2008)

I did get a piston, piston rod, and piston rod end all made and fitted this morning, but I got so wrapped up in making everything fit right and slide smoothly that I got the darn thing all together before I remembered to take a picture. Tomorrow I will have it all disassembled again when I make and fit the valve, so I'll take a picture of the piston and rod assembly then.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 25, 2008)

Bits and peices---peices and bits--I've been away for a couple of days, but I got back this afternoon and machined the straps that connect the end of the beam to the end of the piston rod. I made a big departure from the drawing here, and this is the reason why---My local source for brass does not carry any 1/16" x 1/4" brass like the drawing calls for, and in my opinion the straps in the drawings are a bit puny. I was able to purchase 1/2" x 1/8" brass, so I bought a length of that and machined it to 5/16" wide. So--the straps are 5/16" x 1/8". I silver soldered two peices of 1/8" diameter rod to one of the straps, and left the peices of rod too long deliberately. I called my "nuts and bolts" supplier today and ordered a dozen #5-40 domed hex nuts. When they arrive I will thread the ends of the rod and use the domed hex nuts to retain the strap that is not silver soldered to the 1/8" diameter shafts. I have to disassemble a few things now, and adjust the length of the piston rod assembly, and while I have it apart I will take a picture of it, as I missed it in the previous post.---Brian---and thank you "BIG BIG" to whoever gave me the additional Karma.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 25, 2008)

As promised---Here is the piston rod assembly. Nothing real special here, made as per drawing, pretty well. The piston was very tight in the cylinder "as machined". I lapped it with toothpaste untill it slid freely. Now I think maybe it slides too freely!!! I find it rather difficult to be a good judge of this. These little engines are not very tolerant of pistons that fit "tightly" in the bores, and if the piston seems too loose, a couple of drops of 30 weight oil seems to make them seal up alright. I guess I will know for sure when I get everything all assembled and see if it runs.


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## chuck foster (Aug 25, 2008)

wow you work fast.............i just can't imagine how fast you will be when you retire 

just like kludge I'm totally impressed with the step by step posts you have been doing.
seeing you start with a bunch of drawings and showing us all the pieces as they are made and telling/showing how you overcome problems as they arise.

i really look forward to seeing the finished engine posted (and video) of it here on HMEM...........but unlike most of you guys i will hopfully get to see the finished engine next year at the cookstown steam show ;D ;D ;D

Brian..........keep up the good work and thanks again for all the interesting posts on this project (one karma com'in at you for that)

chuck


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 26, 2008)

So---Today we built the valve. I'm not particularly proud of this work, because while trying (and trying, and trying) to achieve a "perfect" fit into the brass cylinder, I resorted to doing some final dressing of the diameters with a light file (my tooling is carbide, and not much good for taking off realy small finish cuts). And darned if I didn't hold the file on a bit of an angle ---you can just see it on the inside end of the small diameter farthest from the cross hole. It ended up tapered a bit, and I don't know how this is going to affect the running of the engine. I do know that I have about 6 friggin hours in making the valve, and unless it out and out keeps the engine from working, I'm not making another one!!! (This was machined from a 5/8" diameter cold rolled shaft, because thats what I had.) I was going to buy some brass, as the drawing calls for, but since the cylinder is brass, I thought it might be wise to use a different metal for the valve.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 26, 2008)

This afternoon I made up an air inlet tube and a plug for the back of the cylinder where I had to drill thru from the opposite side to punch out a small (2 mm) diameter drill that I broke off when drilling thru the steam ports on the cylinder. I silver soldered them into place, and although it looks a bit ratty, the soldered areas should clean up good when it comes time to polish the cylinder with my buffing wheels and compound. I will put up a drawing of the inlet port either later today or first thing tomorrow morning.


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## mklotz (Aug 26, 2008)

When I made that valve, albeit on the print scale version of this engine, I simply turned a length of rod to the requisite diameter, sliced off two chunks, faced and drilled them to the size of the valve rod, then soldered them into place. Much easier than trying to turn a long, slender part like that from a single piece of stock.

It's often true, especially so for small models, that a fabrication is far easier to make than carving the part from the solid. In fact, learning when and how to fabricate is one of the more difficult tasks for novice modelmakers.

Kozo Hiraoka is the acknowledged expert in this discipline. Even if you're not interested in building a live steam locomotive, search out and read his books just for the ingenious methods he uses to fabricate complex parts.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 26, 2008)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> When I made that valve, albeit on the print scale version of this engine, I simply turned a length of rod to the requisite diameter, sliced off two chunks, faced and drilled them to the size of the valve rod, then soldered them into place. Much easier than trying to turn a long, slender part like that from a single piece of stock.
> 
> It's often true, especially so for small models, that a fabrication is far easier to make than carving the part from the solid. In fact, learning when and how to fabricate is one of the more difficult tasks for novice modelmakers.
> 
> Kozo Hiraoka is the acknowledged expert in this discipline. Even if you're not interested in building a live steam locomotive, search out and read his books just for the ingenious methods he uses to fabricate complex parts.


Thanks Mklotz---You're absolutely right. I never even thought of that.---Brian


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## GailInNM (Aug 26, 2008)

Looking good Brian. 

I have been off my version for several weeks now. I had a major power hit that wiped out much of my electronic junk, including the shop computer. It seems that the power company substation down the hill caught fire about three weeks ago. All sorts of voltage transients as their circuit breakers opened, arcing in the substation and rerouting relays kicking in. Two new hard drives and one DVD drive later and a lot of sweat later everything is back to normal. One of the hard drives was my primary and the other was my backup mirror. Fortunately I was able to recover most everything from the drives and I have a USB external drive that is a secondary backup and gets updated twice a month. It had the rest of the stuff on it.  This is just to remind everyone to keep good backups.

In the meantime, I finished up a couple of other projects so they are out of the way. There is still one other project that I need to finish up and the parts for it should be here tomarrow. 

I have the cylinder group completed and some of the linkage parts underway. Flywheel and eccentric parts are complete and the base has been saw cut to rough shape and ready to machine. Still, there will be no way to catch up with you. You are too quick for me.

Gail in NM,USA


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## Divided He ad (Aug 27, 2008)

Looking good to me Brian, and it's all right you take your time no matter what they say  :big: 
Fair do's you don't hang around.... I would say I can't wait for the finished article again, but you'll probably be posting that in a week!! ;D

Bad news if the valve is a no go.... I have a few bits in 'stock' like that! 


Looking forward to the rest,



Ralph.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 27, 2008)

The engine is setting behind my chair on the floor, being "run in" by the 3/8" drill motor. This gets rid of all the tight spots and binds that are always present on a new motor.---and before you ask, that masking tape is wound around both ends of the drill which I an still using for one of my pivot pins to keep it from falling out. All I have left to do is machine the straps that run from the valve actuator lever arms up to the top of the valve. I will do that now, and sometime today I have to buy some more silver solder. We might see this thing run under its own power today!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Well, for the moment I seem to be snookered!!! I finished making the straps that run from the valve actuator rod up to the valve itself, and found some 1/8" cold rolled shafting to connect everything---then found out that I am completely out of silver solder. I dummied everything into place anyway and thought-AhaH!! This thing should run now.---And thats what I've been trying to do for the last 3 hours. Oh, it wants to run--sometimes it turns over 2 or 3 times before it quits.--I tried every imaginable air pressure and checked that center to center of all my links were the correct length. I even added a temporary much heavier flywheel. I played with the position of the eccentric untill I had covered all 360 degrees of possible settings, I am sure, but no dice.!!! In trying to do some diagnostics, I find that the piston rod has a lot of power when extending outward from the cylinder, but is rather wimpy when retracting into the cylinder---That plus the fact that I am losing a large quantity of air out the top hole of the cylinder cap where the valve passes thru. This leads me to believe that I got such a poor fit between the valve and the cylinder bore that the air which should be pushing my piston is escaping past the valve and peeing away into the atmosphere.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Okay---Valve, second time around. I couldn't get the engine to run, and I assume its because my valve was too much undersize for the bore it fit in the cylinder, and I was losing a lot of air to atmosphere. I had reamed that cylinder with a 1/4" straight flute reamer, and when I tried a peice of 1/4" cold rolled rod in the hole it seemed to be a perfect fit. So---I chucked it up in the lathe, turned the reduced diameter closest to the valve bottom (the recessed area closest to the pivot doesn't really serve any purpose). I then cut the rectangular end off the original valve, with about 5/8" of the round shank, put a 1/8" dia. c'bore in the end of the new valve, and glued them together with Loctite 638.---Now we try again---


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## GailInNM (Aug 27, 2008)

Brian,
The recess at the top end is necessary to exhaust the upper end of the cylinder.
Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Gail---I just figured that out. I put it back together, and it isn't loosing air anywheres near as much, but it wouldn't "kick" either. I am machining it right now.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Well Guys---Its sitting here on the corner of my desk running. Its slow, and it clanks, and it takes 50 PSI right now to run it, but it runs!!!--As soon as my daughter gets home, I will borrow her camera and post a good video. 

View attachment beam engine running001.MPG


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## GailInNM (Aug 27, 2008)

Congratulations Brian.
Feels great when they first run. After that it's just details.
Gail in NM,USA


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## Philjoe5 (Aug 27, 2008)

Nice work Brian, congratulations on a good looking runner. :bow: You've kept a lot of us interested in your progress along the way and it's nice to see the finished product.

Cheers,
Phil


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## chuck foster (Aug 27, 2008)

congratulations brian  :bow: :bow:

chuck


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## rake60 (Aug 27, 2008)

Congrats on it being a runner Brian!

Looks Great!

I've enjoyed your well documented build here.
Looking forward to the next one.

Rick


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Here is a much better video of the beam engine running. It missed some of the audio right at the beginning, but it does give a much better look at the engine.


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## ksouers (Aug 27, 2008)

That's a great runner, Brian! She's a beauty.

Congratulations! :bow:

Nice video and well documented project.


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## Divided He ad (Aug 27, 2008)

Nice Brian... Very nice ;D 

A bit of bling and you got yourself a nice show piece  

Are we going to get another vid once shiny as well as some photo's? 

(see it just goes to show you "if you build it they will come" :big: )

Thanks for taking the effort.... My turn soon.... When I get my busy [email protected]% back in the shop!! (winter soon... = more shop time  )


Looking forward to the finished article  


Ralph.


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## Kludge (Aug 27, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Well Guys---Its sitting here on the corner of my desk running.



Yee Haaaaaaaa!!!

Way to go, Brian! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Kludge


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## Dick L. (Aug 28, 2008)

Looks great Brian, You sure got it done fast ! 

              Dick


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 28, 2008)

I have a question here about the operation of this engine that I can't quite get my head around. When I had assembled the piston/rod assembly and valve in the cylinder, but before I had any linkages hooked up, I tested the action of the valve by manually moving it back and forth within what seemed to be its usual limits of travel, to see what the piston/rod assembly would do. and it worked exactly like I assumed it was supposed to.--At one limit of valve travel, the piston rod stroked "out" quite forcefully. At the other range of valve movement, the cylinder stroked in---with a BIT less force, because some air escapes around the hole where the piston rod comes out through the cylinder head, and because the piston surface area is reduced on that side by the rod diameter. Last night I had the engine running quite succesfully on 18 PSI, when I made the video. Today, after I got my new silver solder I soldered some of the linkages that connect the valve, and this created an immediate "bind" situation. I then disassembled everything, and filed and polished the shafts, and after a couple of hours of "frigging" I got it to run again, but it takes 80 PSI to run it. While attempting to get it running again, I did a lot of playing around with the timing of the eccentric (which is really the only "adjustment" on it,) other than the length of the various linkages which I did not change. What I noticed was, that by adjusting the eccentric position I was able to determine when the power stroke (piston extend)started, relative to the crankshaft "throw" position, but I was NOT able to achieve a point where the piston rod retracted under power. Its almost as if my double acting cylinder is actually performing as a single acting cylinder, with power only on the piston extend side, but no power on the piston retract side. I know that my parts are all built exactly to scale, in terms of linkage lengths, etcetera, and I am just as sure that the original Elmers engine which I based this one on did run as a true double acting engine. Do you think that if I had the length of the eccentric rod (from center to center) adjusted incorrectly that it would cause this to happen.???? I'm at a bit of a loss here, and other than trying longer and/or shorter center to center adjustments on the length of this eccentric rod, I don't know how to diagnose this situation. Also, when the engine is running, I feel and hear definite pulses of air coming out the top of the cylinder head, which Gail says are caused by the upper end of the cylinder "exhausting"----however I do not feel or hear similar bursts of air coming from the hole at the bottom of the cylinder, which I assume would be the case if the cylinder was truly "double acting" and the lower end of the cylinder was exhausting.---HELP PLEASE.---Brian


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## GailInNM (Aug 28, 2008)

Brian,
I am just leaving for a couple of hours, so can't do much right now. 

What you are describing would happen if the eccentric rod is too short. The valve would not go up far enough to admit air to the top of the cylinder, so the piston would not retract.

Did you put set screws in cylinder block to plug the extra holes to the outside. If you can remove them, you can see the valve traveling past the holes. The linkage should be adjusted so the valve action looking through the holes is the same for both the top and the bottom.

If you don't have any luck, I will look at the drawings when I get back, but that won't be until about 11PM your time. 
Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 29, 2008)

Gail---You were absolutely right. I lengthened the eccentric rod about 1/16" and it runs fine on about 18 to 20 PSI. That is a very delicate adjustment, and ---WONDER OF WONDERS---THE ENGINE NOW RUNS IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION!!! I didn't know that the length of that rod would have such a profound effect on the way the machine ran. It is very definitly running in "double acting" mode now, as there is a definite puff of air out of both the top and the bottom exhausts every time the flywheel makes a complete rotation. As a side note---That is rather a pig of an adjustment to make, because every time you want to monkey with the length of the eccentric rod, you have to completely unbolt the bearing stand from the base and dismount the eccentric rod from the valve lever to be able to turn either the end with the eccentric on it or the end that attaches to the valve lever.


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## Divided He ad (Aug 29, 2008)

Sounds like you sorted it out Brian... Seems like there is a great deal more to learn about these engines!

I will be looking back on this post when I come around to building a beam ;D 




Ralph.


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## ianjkirby (Sep 1, 2008)

Hi Brian,
 I am not familiar with your engine, so I might be offering a bum steer; check first!
 Most valves I am familiar with have an adjustment on their spindle to allow them to be moved (within limits) closer to or further away from the crankshaft. It should be no more difficult than removing the valve chest cover, and moving a nut either side of the valve to move the valve one way or the other.
Regards, Ian.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 1, 2008)

Ian--I have it sorted out now, and running okay. there is no such adjustment on this engine---the adjustment is all in the length of the eccentric rod. If you look at the 3D cad model in the very first post, you can see what I was dealing with.---Brian


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## kvom (Sep 10, 2008)

Brian,

During my fall quarter of vo-tech I essentially have a "free rein" to build anything I want during the twice-weekly shop classes. I'm leaning towards building this engine, as it has some aspects of machining I want to try out, and it can be completed easily within the time allowed. Couple of questions for you, or anyone else:

- Can I assume that the three .25" holes in the base are there for mounting it on a wooden base or other support?

- Is there an easy way to make the eccentric rod straight (e.g., by moving the eccentric outboard )? Seems to be doing so would allow its length to be adjustable by having left and right-hand threads on either end.

- Can I assume that the connecting rod is threaded to provide a length adjustment capability? I think machining the connecting rod and rod end as a single piece would be an interesting mod.

- The plans I downloaded all have dates of 7/24 or 7/25 (from Mediafire). Are these all up-to-date?

Other than some of the thoughts expressed above, I am planning to try a couple of other things that are non-critical to the design:

- The flywheel will be a 6-spoke using Marv's flywheel program for layout.

- The column will be tapered and fluted, using a technique I learned about in a magazine recently.

Should be able to get started n Oct. 2.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 10, 2008)

Yes, the three 1/4" holes are for mounting.
No, there is no easy way to make the eccentric rod straight unless you put an offset in the beam. If you move the eccentric outboard, there is nothing to keep the eccentric strap from falling of the outside edge of the eccentric. 
There are 2 drawings that are not up to date--look back thru this post and you will see new drawings for the piston and piston rod---(I had the wrong thread on them).
Yes, the connecting rod is threaded to provide some length adjustment.
Good luck, and PLEASE post progress.

Brian


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## kvom (Sep 10, 2008)

If the valve lever were made wider by the amount of the rod's kink, could not the rod be straight?


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## Divided He ad (Sep 10, 2008)

Brian.... Talking of progress, have you shined this big fella up yet? 

Just wondering how that copper comes out?  ;D 




Rlaph.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 11, 2008)

kvom  said:
			
		

> If the valve lever were made wider by the amount of the rod's kink, could not the rod be straight?


Okay Kvom---This is what it would look like with a straight eccentric rod. This involves a change to the eccentric rod, to the cross shaft on the valve rod actuating shaft, to the base, and to the short shaft from the lever on the other end of the lever which the eccentric rod attaches to which connects to the strap which runs up to operate the valve.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 11, 2008)

Divided He ad  said:
			
		

> Brian.... Talking of progress, have you shined this big fella up yet?
> 
> Just wondering how that copper comes out? ;D
> 
> ...


No, no bling yet. My garage is full of customer parts that I have "reverse engineered" and I haven't even mounted my buffing wheels yet.---Brian


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## kvom (Sep 11, 2008)

Brian,

Thanks for the picture. I would plan to make the connecting rod bits last when I have a partial assembly of the rest in order to verify fit.

I did quite a bit of study on the plans last night, and have some ideas to challenge myself. These include:

1) Eliminate, to the extent possible, visible drilled holes.

2) Avoid 90-degree edges. Chamfer, round, fillet, etc.

3) Make the beam link one piece

4) Make the connecting rod and end one piece

Others as I go along.


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## GailInNM (Sep 11, 2008)

Brian,
Just so you know that I have not been completely useless the last month or so, here is a photo of some of the parts for my version. Most, but not all, have had just enough finishing to remove the tooling marks. I hope to get back on the project later today.
Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 11, 2008)

Very nice Gail. I like your swoopy bearing stands.


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## kvom (Sep 11, 2008)

Great pics Gail. I'm going to steal the ideas for the bearing stands and the 2-piece eccentric ;D

In fact, I don't see why I shouldn't just machine the inner part integral with the flywheel.

Having a "notch" for the lever as opposed to cutting it away also looks good to me.


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## GailInNM (Sep 11, 2008)

The flywheel was made from a 2-1/2 pound cast iron weight lifting weight. Thats why it has a large hole in the center. There are a lot of different weights available, but most of them are difficult to machine because they are very poor grade of cast iron and have residual sand in the surface. They will eat up carbide tooling as fast as you can put it in tool holders. The BFCO ones are fairly good cast iron and are available from the REI sporting goods store in this area. They also have some junk (for our purposes) ones for the same price. The Walmart ones are no good also. I found one bit of voids in the casting. It showed up when I was roughing out the blank on the lathe and was small enough to locate inbetween spokes when I milled them out. Your mileage may vary.




The hub for the flywheel was made of Cold Rolled Steel and the eccentric and eccentric strap were made of close grained cast iron. Notice that I put a flange on the eccentric. This goes away from the hub so the eccentric strap is captured between the hub and the flange with about .010 inch clearance. This is important with an offset eccentric rod as the eccentric strap will work back and forth sideways on the the eccentric as it alternately pulls and pushes.




Gail in NM,USA


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## artrans (Nov 8, 2008)

thats a great looking motor. And you did a great job on the flywheels as well hats off to you.
That beam engine your design or from plans. Where can i get a set. And thank you for flywheel leason. [email protected]


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 8, 2008)

artrans  said:
			
		

> thats a great looking motor. And you did a great job on the flywheels as well hats off to you.
> That beam engine your design or from plans. Where can i get a set. And thank you for flywheel leason. [email protected]


Artrans---Go to the following link for more info---Brian
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2544.0


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