# Dial read outs for your lathe or mill/drill



## Metal Butcher (Feb 3, 2011)

#1This was a rushed post so please excuse my messy machines. (picture guy was leaving the building). A dial indicator mounted on the gear box Is pushed by an adjustable carriage mounted 'travel rod'. 







#2 Two brackets mounted on the carriage for the adjustable rod.






#3 An adjustable travel rod mounted to the top slide. And the dial indicator mounted to the carriage






#4 On the mill the indicator is mounted on the treaded depth rod and travels with the quill along the Z axis. The adjustable rod is mounted on the mills head. Its swiveled out into position and adjusted to a usable height.






This is a very inexpensive and accurate system that I use. Its easy to make and install, and the dial indicators are easy to replace if they get damaged. You Don't need an expensive system to get accurate results. I don't even bother to look at the calibrated hand wheels. What are they for? :big:

-MB


----------



## milotrain (Feb 3, 2011)

Ah yes, very nice. Exactly what I've been looking for, and much more functional by having a fixed indicator.


----------



## metalmad (Feb 4, 2011)

I like it
here is something I can really use 
Thank you for the wonderful idea 
Pete


----------



## ironman (Feb 4, 2011)

Very good MB.   What to do with all my chinese digital calipers if I wanted to use your setup???????????? ???
Seriously, looks like a very good system.

ironman (Ray)


----------



## cfellows (Feb 4, 2011)

I really like that setup, MB. I've got to do something different for a carriage stop on my mini lathe. I currently just have the typical little clamp that fastens to the front way, but it's tight quarters and hard to get to it to adjust if I need to. I've got to look at something like your set up to see if I can adapt it.

Chuck


----------



## Troutsqueezer (Feb 4, 2011)

:idea: Thm:


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 4, 2011)

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> :idea: Thm:



 ;D :big:


----------



## milotrain (Feb 4, 2011)

ironman  said:
			
		

> Very good MB.  What to do with all my chinese digital calipers if I wanted to use your setup???????????? ???
> Seriously, looks like a very good system.
> 
> ironman (Ray)


I'm sort of excited to use those together. My Chinese DROs are very nice for things like bolt patterns, facing, and making sure the tool is clear before flying the table under the tool, but they are not accurate past .001" so if I want high accuracy I can just slide the bar onto the dial. I am shocked at how much faster using the DROs has made me, I can do a quick visual of the tool and move on, much less bend over stick face into mill, line up edge, check wheels, account for backlash, check wheels again. And with this dial setup my $180 grizzly DRO kit just got unmatched accuracy!


----------



## Foozer (Feb 4, 2011)

Did a similar thing, started out as a temporary item, but like most temps . . . Put it on the right side just as a built in system to keep my body parts away from the rotating chuck.

What I would do different or will do when and "IF" I remake it is to extend the DI mount an inch farther outboard from the slide. The gib screw will hit the mount. Other would be to fashion a clamp style holder for the finger screw for if tightened too much will prevent the DI plunger from working. Lastly would be to use a 2 inch range DI, Getting old and forget sometimes, resulting in jamming the plunger into the DI.

The end of my fancy adj rod being all pointy is just my way of reminding myself that I do bleed ;D

Robert


----------



## krv3000 (Feb 4, 2011)

that's good a Q your enco lathe can you give me the dimensions of the compawn slide as it fits on to the Cross slide the reason i ask is i have a emco compact 8 witch is missing the compound slide i have fitted a one off a mifor lm7 but wood love to fit sumthing more compatible with my lathe thanks  from bob


----------



## gmac (Feb 4, 2011)

Love it...! 

I've gone dial too - I find I can sneak up on a number much easier (poopy eyes) and as others have found, you can buy a dial indicator that's more accurate than the digital caliper method.

P.S. - what messy machine scratch.gif

Cheers
Garry


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 4, 2011)

krv3000  said:
			
		

> that's good a Q your enco lathe can you give me the dimensions of the compawn slide as it fits on to the Cross slide the reason i ask is i have a emco compact 8 witch is missing the compound slide i have fitted a one off a mifor lm7 but wood love to fit sumthing more compatible with my lathe thanks  from bob



Hi Bob. The donut base that I added under the compound to replace the factory base is 3-1/2" in diameter and 5/8" tall.

The compound slide sits on top of the donut base and its 3-1/4" x 2-1/8" x 1-7/8" tall.

The measure from the top of the cross slide, to the top of a 1/2" cutting tool, is just over 2-11/16"

Grizzly Industrial carries the parts for the Asian 9 x 20 lathe. They are not the clone that people believe, but they are based on many of the dimensions of the Emco-Maier Compact 8.

-MB


----------



## krv3000 (Feb 5, 2011)

HI thanks for the info ;D


----------



## pete (Feb 9, 2011)

Metal Butcher,
Really well thought out and good design. As a suggestion I'd like to add that even tho you can get dirt cheap D.I.s now you may want to do some searching on a few sites for a set of rubber add on protective bellows? These are made for D.I. usage in dirty enviroments. Their really flexable and are a slip fit for the D.I.s plunger to keep all the crud from being drawn into the indicators inner workings. Probably Mitutoyo's or Starrett's site would show them somewhere in the Dial Indicator section. They'd certainly keep your indicators working accurately and maybe save you from a few trashed parts from a contaminated indicator. I'm pretty sure their only a few bucks each. Just a thought anyway.

Pete


----------



## kvom (Feb 9, 2011)

Looks well designed. I was wondering if the cross-slide fixture could be moved to the opposite side as needed, since it appears that it might limit how close you can get to a larger chuck. At school, the lathes had no DROs, so we had to use DIs like that held to the base with magnets. It takes a little effort to set up, but makes it quite easy to turn to length accurately and quickly.


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 9, 2011)

pete  said:
			
		

> Metal Butcher,
> Really well thought out and good design. As a suggestion I'd like to add that even tho you can get dirt cheap D.I.s now you may want to do some searching on a few sites for a set of rubber add on protective bellows? These are made for D.I. usage in dirty enviroments. Their really flexable and are a slip fit for the D.I.s plunger to keep all the crud from being drawn into the indicators inner workings. Probably Mitutoyo's or Starrett's site would show them somewhere in the Dial Indicator section. They'd certainly keep your indicators working accurately and maybe save you from a few trashed parts from a contaminated indicator. I'm pretty sure their only a few bucks each. Just a thought anyway.
> 
> Pete



Thanks Pete. The indicators are defiantly in harms way. I'm constantly cleaning off the plunger to avoid a problem with fine chips working their way in. And If you take a close look at the one mounted to the gear box (picture #1) you will see two cracks in the clear dial along with a burn marks from hot chips. Seems that any time I drop the key it hits the indicator square on.

I didn't know that shields were even available. Thanks for letting me know.

-MB


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 9, 2011)

kvom  said:
			
		

> Looks well designed. I was wondering if the cross-slide fixture could be moved to the opposite side as needed, since it appears that it might limit how close you can get to a larger chuck. At school, the lathes had no DROs, so we had to use DIs like that held to the base with magnets. It takes a little effort to set up, but makes it quite easy to turn to length accurately and quickly.



Hi Kvom. The indicator appears to be much closer (in picture #3) than it actually is to the ways. If I use my largest (6") chuck the dial indicator itself can get in the way, if the jaws are way out. I anticipated this possibility and made the indicator bracket reversible. If I flip the bracket around it brings the indicator way out towards me. The indicators lug mounts to a threaded through hole on the bracket allowing it to be bolted on from either side. So far the rod and the two brackets on top of the cross slide have not gotten in the way. Another good feature is that the entire set-up can be removed in a few minutes for cleaning or for some very odd work piece.

-MB


----------



## pete (Feb 9, 2011)

MB,
Yeah they are available but fairly hard to track down or I would have put a link up. I have one or two pictures in some of my older machining referances that show set ups very close to yours used on some very accurate jig boring equipment. If you look close, Those rubber bellows are used for every indicator. The jig borers were designed at the factory to use this system as the equipment had areas cast in as a relief to allow room for mounting the Dial Indicators.This was obviously long before DROs were invented. They also used hinged covers with replaceable (persperex?) or clear plastic covers over the D.I.s face for extra protection. Due to your lack of extra room maybe that wouldn't be possible.

Pete


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 9, 2011)

Pete, the protective shields are a good idea for sure. There should be enough room to add them on any lathe, even if they where just small swing away shields mounted on a stud with a small air space above the indicator. Over the last five years my indicators have had a rough but productive life. They look ugly as sin, but still produce accurate parts.

Just like me. Old and ugly, but still producing! Rof}

-MB


----------



## pete (Feb 9, 2011)

MB,
I'll PM you.

Pete


----------



## js2112au (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks for the brilliant idea Metal Butcher!! This is exactly the kind of useful info and ideas I came here for. 

I'm a little tired of checking my jobs with calipers ever few minutes because I know the graduations on my dials aren't accurate, and I'm still at that "crawling" stage with my lathe - learning how not to break parting tools and such, so I'm not sure I want to go the whole hog and get a digital readout kit just yet. 

The fitting on my lathe - a Sieg C2 was a little trickier than your's looked - it's smaller and not as well constructed and I had to do some drilling and tapping on the slides. The end result - a pretty basic construction, worked like a charm. I also took the issue you've faced with having the dial on the business side of things, and mounted it on the other side.

Here's a pic of what I ended up with:


----------



## DaveH (Feb 27, 2011)

This is really a question for MB or anyone has used his mill/dial gauge modification.

I have noticed that the machine when running causes the needle to vibrate (slightly).

So how is yours standing up ( the dial gauge that is)?

Id hate the needle to fall off after a couple of weeks  a couple of years wont bother me.

Dave


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 27, 2011)

DaveH  said:
			
		

> This is really a question for MB or anyone has used his mill/dial gauge modification.
> 
> I have noticed that the machine when running causes the needle to vibrate (slightly).
> 
> ...



Dave, I don't have any quiver of the dial indicator needles on the lathe.

On the mill (milling) I zero out on the work, offset the cutter and lower the end mill the appropriate amount, lock the quill and start the machine and make my cut. The needle does quiver a bit, so I just ignore it.

Drilling to a specific depth the needle quivers quite a bit, usually plus/minus a few thousands, Since I'm usually drilling holes to be tapped the depth is not too critical, and a few thousands more or less dosn't really matter.

I'm still using the same indicators I installed several years ago. They are battle scared and have been through several wars and still work well. The ones I use cost about $6 to $7 and still produce repeatable results.

Ignore the quiver, It won't cause any harm.

-MB


----------



## DaveH (Feb 27, 2011)

MB

Thanks - just the answer I was hoping for. ;D

The vibration doesn't bother me from a reading point of view.

I was just a little concerned about the dial gauge falling to pieces.

I have nearly finished the mod. I will post a couple of photos - day or so.(As a credit to you)

I think it is a really really clever idea. :bow:

Just can't understand why I didn't think of it! Rof}

Dave


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 27, 2011)

js2112au  said:
			
		

> Thanks for the brilliant idea Metal Butcher!! This is exactly the kind of useful info and ideas I came here for.
> 
> I'm a little tired of checking my jobs with calipers ever few minutes because I know the graduations on my dials aren't accurate, and I'm still at that "crawling" stage with my lathe - learning how not to break parting tools and such, so I'm not sure I want to go the whole hog and get a digital readout kit just yet.
> 
> The fitting on my lathe - a Sieg C2 was a little trickier than your's looked - it's smaller and not as well constructed and I had to do some drilling and tapping on the slides. The end result - a pretty basic construction, worked like a charm. I also took the issue you've faced with having the dial on the business side of things, and mounted it on the other side.



Sorry, I missed your post. Thanks for the compliment! I'm glad that I could help out, and that your benefiting from my ideas.

With a small amount of practice the set up works so well that I have no need to even think about using anything else.

-MB


----------



## Foozer (Feb 27, 2011)

DaveH  said:
			
		

> I have noticed that the machine when running causes the needle to vibrate (slightly).



I get that at times, needle just does a +/- .001 dance at a certain machine speed. So I just don't use that speed, Lord to early in the Am and not enough coffee yet. If the slide adj starts to loosen up then the needle will dance, that's just part of an old hunk of iron in use. Done a lot of interrupted cutting that just sends the needle on its own little acid trip. 

Haven't had a needle fall off yet and I just use the chepo Shars DI's. Only failure I have had is jamming the plunger into the body purely my fault for not watching the travel.

I may be ANAL but I personally prefer the dial to be *mounted on the tailstock side of the slide*. I like my body parts, dum de dum, had enough chips and such thrown into my face over the years that keeping body parts as far from rotating objects as possible has become the standard.

Needle buzzing, picking up a vibration, nail it down as to whats loose. Motor caused, can be, and for me its a project to remount the motor separate from the lathe bench so only the link belt connects the two. If you take a glass of water and set it on the lathe bench the surface will show vibrations that you cant feel. The nice centered, steady pond ripple is Ok, the double ripple set is, AH, well a sign that something is out of wack.


Its a good little Mod to do, gets you close to target without having to start and stop just to measure. Well worth the time to do. It is what it is and even tho the only failure of a DI was my error I still consider them to be disposable tooling. I try to keep em functional but at this stage of my learning curve Im not going fret to much if/when I hose one up.

Robert


----------



## DaveH (Feb 27, 2011)

Robert,

And on the mill?

Dave


----------



## Foozer (Feb 27, 2011)

DaveH  said:
			
		

> Robert,
> 
> And on the mill?
> 
> Dave



Last chunk of change for a mill went for a 24volt 200watt solar panel, another hobby

Robert


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi Robert. Each machine will be slightly different and will dictate a proper and safe mounting placement for the rods and dial indicators. Any one contemplating this modification should use good judgment based on safety above all.

On my 9 x 20 the left side of the top slide turned out to be safe and appropriate. If you take a close look at my #2 picture you can see that the brass locking screws are in front and on top of the slide just above the carriage hand wheel. To make an adjustment I take hold of the transfer block just above the hand wheel, loosen the lock screw on top of the top slide, make the adjustment and tighten the screw. I never touch the dial indicator to make adjustments. Its all done by manipulating the transfer block on the end of the traveling rod. I am in no more danger, or any closer to the chuck than I would normally be, in the normal course of operating my lathe hand wheel.

In picture #3 below the indicator (just below the plunger) you can see an extra hole in the mounting block. The mounting block can be reversed with the addition of a small spacer between it and the indicator, to bring the indicator out even further and way out in front of the carriage. I only used this reversing option once for extra clearance when I used my 6"- 4-jaw chuck with a very larger work piece.

-MB


----------



## Foozer (Feb 27, 2011)

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Hi Robert. Each machine will be slightly different and will dictate a proper and safe mounting placement for the rods and dial indicators. *Any one contemplating this modification should use good judgement based on safety above all.*
> 
> -MB



I agree, your setup looks heck of a lot better than what I cobbled up. As I said,I tend to get Anal about some things. Many ways to get to the goal line, doing so without injury is the trick. I'm locked into the box of "To the Right To the Right" when it comes to the lathe. silly perhaps. 

Your safety clarification point is taken as well thought out  Other than my bull headed "To the Right" mindset I wanted to keep the chips as far away as possible. The other DI for the lead screw is nothing but battle scared 

Stay safe out there

Robert


----------



## Metal Butcher (Feb 27, 2011)

I look at it this way Robert.

If being concerned about safety is "anal", then we should all be Very, Very Anal!

"To the right" Is dictated by your machine and good judgment'

You are right, to go to the right.

And I know I'm right.

Right! Rof}

-MB


----------



## DaveH (Mar 1, 2011)

Well here's mine The MB mill dial gauge mod. ;D

Full credit to MB for a great idea. :bow:

Thanks MB

Dave


----------

