# A new Lathe?



## PeeWee (Aug 19, 2009)

Hi All,

In my welcome post i asked about the size of lathe for machining engines on. the chain of very helpfull responces seemed to point to the bigger the better.

As there are now so many imports that all appear to be the same albeit painted different colours and with different names on i came across this supplier in the UK.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/db11_variable_speed_lathe.htm

Does anyone know this supplier or their equipment. I know someone who has one of their milling machines but not a lathe. Also i hope it would be big enough. ;D

Alternately there is the second hand market, but you never quite know its full history, or am i paranoid? ???

kind regards


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## tmuir (Aug 19, 2009)

Unless you plan on make 2 inch scale TEs or the like that should be big enough. 
Sorry I don't know anything about the brand but it does look nice.


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## cfellows (Aug 19, 2009)

Nice lathe. That size should carry you well into the future.

I personally am not afraid of the used market. As long as all the castings are sound and pieces are present, most things can be fixed if need be.

It's relatively easy to check wear on the ways, which is usually the biggest problem, particularly near the headstock. If the ways are worn badly, it can only be fixed by having the ways reground. Not a huge problem, but could be expensive. I had the ways reground on a Logan 11" lathe 12 years ago and it cost me $300 USD. Of course, I only paid $100 USD for the lathe so it was still a good deal. Factor that into the price. 

You can also check spindle alignment pretty easily. If the machine has ball or tapered roller bearings, alignment can usually be fixed by shimming the headstock where it fastens to the bed. I would be wary of older lathes that have babbitt (white metal split bearings). If these need to be replaced, it can be a problem if you're not experienced. The old ones need to be torn out and new ones need to be cast into place, then line bored.

You can also usually tell how well a machine has been taken care of just by looking at it. You might also score a lot of nice accessories and tooling on a used lathe. Price is the big determiner.

Chuck


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## bearcar1 (Aug 19, 2009)

Welcome PW, wEc1. Decent used lathes and such can be obtained on the used market but the buyer needs to 'have done his homework' beforehand. Knowing what to look for as far as wear and precision is a must. Also a bit of patience is involved in the process as with anything else used, the specimens that are being offered range from little used to POS boat anchors. Even new machines, other than some hefty price tags sometimes, do not equate into accuracy and convenience for the operator. Common tooling also becomes paramount when selecting a machine. Sure one can pick up a huge machine for pennies on the dollar but then when it comes time for tooling, it is an oddball size and is like chickens teeth to acquire. I do not know anything about the brand of machine you listed but am just saying that good machines that have been taken care of are available on the market, it just takes time to weed out the crappy ones. I have a 10" SB lathe and in my opinion it is at time a bit too large for model work. A 6" would probably suit my needs but I feel comfortable in knowing I have the extra capacity. Purchasing machines is similar to buying a car, do your homework, set price limitation and go from there. Sorry I could not offer more but do hope that you are successful in finding machine that suits your purposes.

BC1
Jim


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## Kermit (Aug 19, 2009)

Looks like the grizzly 10" model only the power button position is different 

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602

I just noticed the free shipping on the grizzly model. That would be a nice one to get were one on the other side of the pond. No Gear Changes with that one it seems...  

And Welcome to the forums PeeWee, 
Kermit


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## CrewCab (Aug 19, 2009)

imho Chester are generally well regarded, their machines are popular and a lot of the UK members on here have them. I had a 9x20 which I bought second hand, it was a still is actually a good machine and I was happy with it, however I was offered a second hand Boxford at a good price so I bought that, and I have to admit it is better. The DB11V seems a very nice piece of kit. One point depending how quickly you want a lathe, Chester will no doubt be at the Midlands Engineering Exhibition in October, you can usually negotiate a good deal at the shows.

CC


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## rickharris (Aug 19, 2009)

I bought my lathe from them - a rather further down the market conquest lathe However the company were very good. Quick to answer questions Efficient and quick to supply. Their forum appears to uphold this opinion as well.

Be warned the deliverer will (or did for me) put the crate down on the drive and that was it. Your lathe will be a bit heavier so have some means to move it to where it will live.

Had I had the spare money and the ability to persuade SWMBO I should spend it I would have gone bigger.

 The DB-11 looks nice I saw it at an exhibition when I was deciding what to get.


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## PeeWee (Aug 19, 2009)

Thank you for the replies, luckily i am in no great hurry as i still have to finish the modifications to the workshop. I will certainly look at whats on offer at the show in October. 

SWMBO is even offering to Buy me a mill as long a i pay for the lathe and the workshop mods woohoo1. the catch was an engagement ring and a wedding. stickpoke


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## Jasonb (Aug 19, 2009)

I have the slightly better spec Warco version WM280V-F. Its gerenally said that the Warco stuff has a better build quality but their prices tend to be a little higher than Chesters. If you are in the area Warco have an open day soon and usually discount all their items and they will also be at the Bristol show this comming weekend

If you can go the extra then the power cross feed is a nice feature to have, I would not want a lathe without it now.

Similar lathes Can be bought on e-bay but check what you get with them as I don't think they come with steadys or a 4 jaw chuck. RDG also do this lathe with cross feed and Engineers Toolroom do it without.

Pete on here has just bought one through the Canadian importer thats built by Weiss and his also has the milling attachment.

Jason

Edit worth reading a few of teh posts on Chesters forum as well


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## zeeprogrammer (Aug 19, 2009)

PeeWee  said:
			
		

> SWMBO is even offering to Buy me a mill as long a i pay for the lathe and the workshop mods. the catch was an engagement ring and a wedding.



Sounds like a deal. Try negotiating for some tooling too.
It's too late for me.


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## pete (Aug 19, 2009)

PeeWee,
If I were you I would pay very close attention to whatever Jason has to say. When I was originaly looking at importing this lathe from Warco in the U.K. I PMed Jason about likes/dislikes and his responce made up my mind to buy this lathe. Unfortunatley due to a major shop reorganization my lathe is still not off the floor and operational BUT!!! That said I've done some accuracy checking against the factory supplied test certificate with some VERY expensive Mitutoyo Digital indicator/ Micrometers and would not hesitate to buy another lathe/mill of this type. I fully expect my test results to get a lot better once this lathe/mill are bolted down and leveled properly. If your buget will stand the extra money or even if you have to save for awhile then really try and get the 280V-F lathe, Once my lathe is mounted and fully tested against the factory test certificate I'll be posting pictures and test results for anyone interested. If you would like to email me with any further questions or you need pictures then feel free to do so.

Pete


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## rake60 (Aug 19, 2009)

I like the look of it myself.
The reverse tumbler on the lead screw is a great feature!
The only negative I see is the Interlocked Chuck Guard.
I'd be defeating that the very first day. That is not a safety
feature. It is hiding things you need to be seeing.

Rick


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## pete (Aug 19, 2009)

Rake60,
Have to agree with you about the interlocked guard, I'll be deleating mine first chance I get, I fully realize the manufacturer is protecting themselves from lawsuits but it's impossible to protect a moron from themselves. I also think guards give people a false sense of security and then they'll do things with the assumtion that their fully protected.

Pete


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## Jasonb (Aug 20, 2009)

Its not a tumbler reverse unfortunately, up for londitudinal feed, down for cross feed. The Fwd/Rev for feed is one of the three levers at the front and can't be changes while running.

The other problem with the chuck guard is that it stops the carrage getting close enough to the work when using the faceplate. Two allen screws sort it out and I just put it back on if there is a job thats throwing a lot of muck out.

Jason


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## PeeWee (Aug 20, 2009)

I have had a look at the data sheet and looks like it has good functionality and general specs. I will have to have a good chat with them at the midlands show. Long term the extra pennies could be money well spent, after all i do not intend to buy another one for a very long time so need to get it right first time.


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 20, 2009)

PW IIRC you have a little starter hobby lathe? 
Does that have too many limitations to start on?
That chester looks like a decent lathe probly a SEIG variant. 
Tin


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## Jasonb (Aug 20, 2009)

There is one error is the Warco spec sheet, the lowest speed is 50rpm though mine indicated down to 42rpm. which is a reasonable speed for threading.

The error was caused by whoever designed the catalogue coppy & pasting the speeds from the belt driven version.

Jason


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## PeeWee (Aug 20, 2009)

HI Tin,
You are correct a 3 1/2" Faircut that's been stored for at least 20 years. I am having it checked professionally in the next few weeks. 

From what i can work out its bearings may need replacing,a possible reground and it defiantly needs a new motor.  but my biggest concern is that the handles feel very sloppy. Until its checked i am looking into other possibilities and to see whats on the market and at what price. 
My main concern is what route is the most cost affective longterm which would also include tooling for the relevant machine.

Either option i think i am going to need a few lot of the finest single malt scotland has to offer :


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## Stan (Aug 20, 2009)

Peewee: I agree with te other comments on the Chester lathe. However, if I was buying a new lathe with that large a swing, I would look for a lathe with a larger hole through the spindle (hopefully 50% larger). It is so much easier to stick piece in the chuck and work close to the chuck, compared to putting it on a tailstock center and working close to the tailstock. Here is a comparable size swing from Grizzly and it has about 38 mm hole through the spindle
http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/12-x-37-Belt-Drive-Gap-Bed-Lathe/G9249


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## CrewCab (Aug 20, 2009)

Stan, I think that lathe is the next step up, *"Crusader"* at this side of the pond. To be fair, for the extra money and considering the additional features, such as 2 axis dro etc it's a worthy contender .............. depends on budget really, but dam good point :bow:

CC


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## hudmut (Aug 20, 2009)

well i do a lot of work on machine tools as part of my job and from what i have seen and from what i have my self chester is ok my own machine is chester and is very good but had a lot of mods done to it but the same machine at work is junk and is only 3 years old i wont even use it any more but warco is a lot better all round and they are great to deal with but i would all so look at axminster and speak to rod in sales he is a good chap and if you speak to him nice im sure he will look after you there is all so excl machine tools witch is one more step up in price for the same size machine but you do get that much more. All so dont forget to look on the home work shop web site as well there is all ways some thing on there as well


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## deverett (Aug 21, 2009)

I debated with myself when buying a larger lathe whether to go for a new Chinese machine or second hand European machine.

I decided on a British machine - a Harrison M300 ex college. It had all the extras that would have been stripped off by a dealer. In truth a Chinese lathe would have come with all these bits anyway. It had had very little use, although the paint had been scratched by a student. I am delighted with my purchase (which, oh horror, I bought off eBay).

What swayed my decison was stories I had heard of the state that the Chinese lathes were delivered. e.g. casting sand still in the gearbox. Admitedly this was 4 years ago and Chinese quality control may have improved in that time. Anthony Mount did a series in ME about 5 years ago on what he _had_ to do and wanted to do to a Warco BH600 lathe before being able to use it.

There have been recent posts in other fora about the lack of service from the Chinese importers - Warco and Chester. If you want to go down the new Chinese route, have you considered 
http://www.engineerstoolroom.co.uk/

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## Stan (Aug 21, 2009)

Crewcab: The Crusader is only 20 mm bigger swing. In my experience with models, bed length never enters into the problem. It is always not enough swing and to small a hole in the spindle. If the price difference is within reason, I would go for the bigger hole. I have always had 10" (254 mm) swing lathes made in the US with a 3/4" (19 mm) spindle hole and it is one f the major frustrations.


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## Jasonb (Aug 21, 2009)

The crusader will swing 16" with the gap piece removed, handy for flywheels and traction engine rims

Jason


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## PeeWee (Aug 21, 2009)

My head is spinning, so much for a simple choice of lathe. there seems to be almost too many sizes, not to mention makes out there these days.

The crusader look good and i think this is the warco version
http://www.warco.co.uk/productimages/documents/P43.pdf

As soon as you mention fitted DRO and the spindle bore i note that the shelf price for both is around £3k which is £1.5k more than say the VM280V-F. i could have a mill for the diference.

I need more scotch, my head hurts with info overload. ;D


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## Jasonb (Aug 21, 2009)

A lot will depend on what you want to make, the 280 will be fine for stationary steam engines as most of these were designed with the 9" swing of a Myford gap bed in mind. Upto a 2" traction engine is possible as are most IC engines unless you want to get into large hit & miss models.

My choice was also affected by weight and size, the 12" machines were just that bit too big/heavy.

Jason


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## PeeWee (Aug 21, 2009)

Thats true, initially stationay steam and ic, eventually a nice bently rotary in a few years and maybe a 5" loco at some point.

i lke the look of this one http://www.warco.co.uk/productimages/documents/P39.pdf and not toob bad a price


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## hudmut (Aug 24, 2009)

That is a point when i looked in to my first lathe id done my ground work looking at what was best and what models i wanted to do and all so what mods was being done to my pick of machines. Like Jason B said the Myford will do a 9" fly wheel witch was the size of the model kits i was looking at in the end i whent for a Chester 9*20 lathe witch is the same size as a Myford (so i was told) well i can tell you i was not happy to fine out that i could only get 8.3/4 " job in with out clamps on the out side of the job in to the lathe when i was told it would do 9" and this was after 9 mouths of ownership so no come back so be care full. but if you are looking at some thing like the Bentley rotary there is a lot of tiny bits in there and yes it is great to have a big lathe but some times it can be a pain because all the tooling is so much bigger and you cant get in to make tiny valves because the tail stock, tool post, a bit chuck, and so on gets in the way so some times there can be a happy half way point.. if i hat to pick what i could have in a given space id have a mid size lathe and a mid size mill witch i have all ready and the only thing i have not been abel to do is the fly wheel for my traction engine witch is no bother because as iv got in to this Hobbes iv made some good pals who are all ways willing to help and let me use there machine for 5 mins. witch if you read on here some more you will see that there is all ways some one is willing to get you out of a hole.


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## The Artful Bodger (Aug 28, 2009)

PeeWee, I bought a lathe that is the same as the Chester Crusader. It had been on the shop floor for a long time and I never expected to buy anything so big but when I got talking about the smaller machines on offer the Crusader-clone with a bit of discount became very attractive. I have not regretted this at all.

I knew nothing about lathes or metal turning, had never had my hand on one since school days in the '60s and six months after buying the lathe I doubtless still dont know much but what I do know is that I have never yearned for a smaller machine in that time.

John


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## Blogwitch (Aug 28, 2009)

Peewee,

I have the Chesters Crusader, and because they were so popular, you couldn't see one in the flesh, as you had to wait for delivery from China.

On my receipt of the lathe, and subsequent build up in my shop, a lot of errors came to light, mainly the advertising blurb stating it could do things, but in fact it couldn't in it's current state of build. Plus a few minor niggles about build quality, a nick in the bed, paint overspray etc. Chester wanted to swap it out straight away, but me being a nasty ba****d, I wanted my pound of flesh as well.

To cut a long story short, Chester UK rebuilt a lathe for me to my specs, invited me to inspect it at the showroom, to see that it was up to my requirements, and swapped it out, putting the new lathe in exactly the same place as the old unused one, plus a few very nice sweeteners were left behind for me as well.

Actually, all the sales literature has now been modified, and the machine as well, because of my issues.

Would I buy another from them, you bet I would. I have dealt with all the others, and I am a master moaner and complainer, and Chester is the only one that comes back with an instant, no arguments changeover and repair policy, problems usually sorted by the next day. Most of the others will start with the same excuse of 'it's a manufacturing fault and there is nothing we can do', then you have to start getting nasty. You have to remember, these people are not the manufacturers, just box shifters. It just so happens that Chesters has a very good team of dedicated repair people to put things right when the manufacturers make a b**ls up.

With regards to lathe choice, that can only be your decision, no-one elses. But some of the comments I have seen on here do really need addressing.

A large lathe WILL make tiny components, your worry should be not to buy a lathe that is too small for your future needs. The old saying comes into it, what will do a lot will do a little, but not the other way around.

The other issue of spindle bore. You will find with far eastern machines, you will get the largest bore that can safely be accommodated in the spindle without losing rigidity. Old designed home grown machines usually went for the belt and braces approach, and gave very small spindle bores. Far eastern machines have come a long way in the last few years, and problems with the machines are usually operator related, not knowing how to set them up correctly, and not with the build quality. 

I have not modified my machine in any way to get better performance, just tweaked with the settings that are there to be tweaked, and I would put it up against an overpriced, underspecced, and out of date designed Myford any day of the week.

So really, look for a lathe that will handle what you want to do in the future, find if it has the specs you want, ie power feeds, geared head, accessories available, and if it is within your price and size range. Find a reliable supplier who will put right any niggles, and then just go for it.

Blogs


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## Peter Neill (Aug 28, 2009)

My 2penniesworth  I wouldnt buy another Lathe from Chester unless they were the last lathe manufacturer on the planet, and even then with some trepidation. Everyone has their own opinion and experience, so you have to make your own mind up from the good and bad, but I was very disappointed 5 years ago.

I bought a DB10G (predecessor to the DB11), it arrived promptly, was unpacked and set up, and then I found the following.

The saddle wouldnt get closer than 6 to the chuck before binding up  it was loose at the tailstock end.
It was advertised and sold to me as having a leadscrew reverse  which it didnt.
It had horrendous vibration except at the lowest (125rpm speed).
The tailstock would not move more than 1/3rd of the way up the bed due to huge casting lumps on the inside of the bed.

I spoke to Garry Rimmer at Chester who was very helpful and agreed to take this one back and send another one out. This arrived 1 week later.

On the second one, which was obviously made in a different factory as all the castings and the handles and the headstock charts were different. I found this:

Still no leadscrew reverse.
More than half the change gears missing (same as the first one actually), so no chance of any screwcutting. Also have a look at the screwcutting chart picture below, and you try and work it out.
No graduated dials or reference points on leadscrew/cross-slide
Major slop in longitudinal feed handle which would need re-bushing, and it constantly popped out of mesh when trying to manually traverse.
Huge amounts of casting sand still on everything  the picture of the faceplate below that came with the Lathe is a perfect example of the quality/lack of it.

I rejected this one back as well, and asked for my money back as they now explained that the marketing details with the leadscrew reverse actually referred to the Optimum lathe sold in Germany, and not the DB10G.
Had a lot of hassle getting money back and the Lathe picked up, but got there eventually.

My advice would be to talk to Warco instead.

Peter


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## Blogwitch (Aug 28, 2009)

And what do you have now Peter, and where from?

Blogs


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## Peter Neill (Aug 28, 2009)

I've got a short-bed Bantam 1600.
Bought it with 2 x 3-jaw chucks, 2 x4-jaw chucks, faceplate, got a full set of change gears (incl. 127T metric transposing gear), Dickson QCTP with 8 holders, coolant, fixed and revolving centres, tailstock drill chuck, & 2-speed motor. I recently added a 5C collet chuck. All for £1000, and it's quiet, and relatively unworn (hardened bed).

Prior to that and immediately after the DB10G, I bought a scrap-heap ML7 which I completely restored, then finally sold that on earlier this year.

Here's a piccie of the Bantam with my Bridgy and 540 Grinder






I would have liked a longer bed, but as you can see space for me is a bit tight, but if I need something bigger we have 2 more Colchesters in our toolroom that I can use. I'm very happy with the Bantam, does everything I need. I can take a 0.250" cut or shave off a tenth with equal ease.
Being a gear-head makes it easy to use, screwcutting is a breeze, and I can even cut 3.5 TPI oil grooves into bronze swing-arm bearings for my Bike ;D








Peter


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## PhiberOptix (Aug 28, 2009)

Peter Neill  said:
			
		

> Here's a piccie of the Bantam with my Bridgy and 540 Grinder



Peter

Nice setup  quick question for you, i can see the electric box behind the bridgeport, how much did it cost you to have 3 phase installed?

Sorry for deviating of the topic

Regards
Andy


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## Peter Neill (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks Andy.

Believe it or not I don't have pukka 3-phase installed. all the machines run off a 4HP/3kW static phase convertor, the box on the wall is a distribution/junction box I made up. You can see this a bit better in the picture below.
The phase convertor sits up high on a shelf behind the Bridgy, and feeds into the box via the cable coming in top left. The cable exiting top right goes round the top of the wall to a 3-phase socket for the Lathe, with 2 more sockets coming out below for the Mill & Grinder.
It was just neater doing it this way rather than running trailing leads all over the place.








Peter


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