# Sherline, Microlux or the Taig lathe/mill?



## shlomo

Hello all,
I bumped into this excellent forum while I was looking for information on building engines (lucky me ha?). I must admit that I was very impressed by the quality of the work here.

I have several questions I hope someone can help me with. Please understand that I am new to this, I initially intended to buy a woodworking lathe, since I am now working mostly with hand tools on wood. 

Then I was exposed to the metal milling/turning world and started reading and was enthusiastic about it (making engines, clocks etc) . I am trying to decide now what would be best for me a lath or a mill and from which vendor (Micromark, sherline or taig) and which one can work well with wood as well as metal.

Do you think a lathe would be more suitable if you are new to this sort of work?

I am especially interested in making a small (steam?) engine, from a plan, without using a CNC machine. 
I looked at these:
Taig:
TAIG-2019CR-ER (http://www.super-tech.com/root/itm.asp?p1=itm-Taig-Mills )

Micromark:
http://www.micromark.com/MICROLUX-7X14-MINI-LATHE,8176.html
http://www.micromark.com/MICROLUX-BENCHTOP-MINI-MILLING-MACHINE-ALL-INCH-MINI-MILL,8102.html

and of course Sherline which is available in my country (Israel) without the need to ship internationally. 

Any comment would be appreciated especially from those who own any of these machines and used it to build their first engine. would this http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/steammodels/simpleoscil/simpleoscil.htm be considered a good first project? 

Another question i have is, do any of you use CAD software such as AutoCad even if your mill is NOT CNC ready? 

Thanks, 



Thanks and have a wonderful weekend,

Shlomo.


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## b.lindsey

Hi Shlomo and welcome to the forum. I am sure you will get lots of responses as to the various machines out there. Personally I use sherline and have for 12+ years and like them very much. I have both the lathe and mill and neither is CNC. If they are available in Israel I would think that is a plus, but with any of these smaller machines you do need to think in advance about the types of projects you want to do, not just now but in the future as their size can be a limitation. Think also about the tooling and accessories you will need in addition to the basic machine(s). Again I find one advantage with Sherline in that there are many quite useful Sherline accessories available which work seemlessly with their equipment

As for CAD, I use AutoCAD LT 2007 for 2D drawings to work from, but also have access to SolidWorks at work when needed.

Regards,
Bill


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## Tin Falcon

Shlomo:
Any of the listed machines would work well to set up a model engineering shop. and all should have decent availability of accessories and tooling. 
Sherline is top notch made in USA. 
Taig imHO is also another good made in USA brand I do not think quite as popular as the Sherline. 

The micro mark brand is Chinese import and should be available in your part of the world with a different paint color and label. 
These machines are made bySEIG
These machines are quite popular .I started with these types of machines and still use them. 
If you want to learn single point threading the seig lathe is the only one that will thread out of the box. the others need add on tooling. 
as far as cad this software [url]http://www.alibre.com/products/ [/url]is quite popular here and value priced. it is what I use although i do have a lot to learn with it.

Print out the scec sheets for each machine and compare what you are, or are not getting with each one. what features are important to you ? Then ask questions. each of those machines will have some advantage and disadvantage compared to the others. 
Learn manualy but all of the above can and have been converted to cnc . cnc ready with manual handles for now is a nice feature. 
Tin


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## shred

I've got a Taig and it's a nice quality small mill. The lathes are roughly the same size as the Sherline, but the Taig mill is a little larger, though the Sherline has more attachments. I've seen super nice work come off both (some posted here), so it may come down to availability and parts and support that decides it for you if you like the work envelope.

Most people these days seem to start with a lathe then obtain a mill fairly soon thereafter, although in the 'old days', home shop mills were fairly few and far between; my copy of "The Amateurs Workshop" says it was unlikely to have a mill in an English hobby workshop circa 1950. I think they did a lot more filing in those days.


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## zeeprogrammer

Welcome to the forum shlomo.

I started this hobby about a year ago with no experience.
I have the blue Seig mini-lathe and an X2 mill. I'm pretty happy with both but they do need some care and adjusting...especially the lathe.

But the lathe/mill is only half the equation. Be sure to investigate accessories and tooling. They represent an investment that could equal if not exceed the cost of the machines.

Think about what projects you want to do in the future and whether the machines will be capable. Size of part is a big factor.


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## bearcar1

Greetings Shlo, wEc1

I believe that if Sherline is available in your country that in order to save any VATs or other unforeseen duties, shipping charges etc., that would be my choice in the matter. The other machines are decent, I also am a fan of the Taig, but I chose Sherline when I started out and still have their lathe and mill and it is high quality and the accessories are endless. This of course is just my opinion and I am sure that you will make a educated decision that will bring you a lifetime of machining pleasure. Again, welcome to HMEM.

BC1
Jim


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## D.C.Clark

I strongly recommend Sherline. Join the Sherline forum at:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sherline/

Dan Pines, a Sherline distributor in Israel, is a regular participant. Drop him a line, drop my name.

I am occasionally tempted to get a Sieg machine. All I have to do to talk myself out of it, is to monitor some of those forums for a few days, and read all the horror stories.

David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA


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## shlomo

Thanks to all the participants who replied to my questions, I really do appreciate it 

This is the sherline model I am now considering: http://www.sherline.com/images/4000Cpic.jpg

So if I understand correctly the Lathe would by sufficient to construct lets say this beginners model?: 

http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/23_ElmersTiny.zip

Do you think there is really a need for the longer Sherline version (e.g. http://www.sherline.com/images/4400Cpic.jpg) ? 

Once again, thanks,


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## Maryak

Shlomo,

Welcome to our forum. wEc1

Best Regards
Bob


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## vlmarshall

Welcome to the forum! I don't know what sort of parts you plan on turning... but I bought the 4400 Sherline last month.The majority of parts I'll be making won't need the long bed length, but when I do need it, I won't have to go hunting for another lathe. ;D

Cranking that table all the way down the bed takes FOREVER, though.


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## Tin Falcon

The long bed comes in handy when drilling when you add the length of the part the chuck the drill chuck then the bit or reamer things can get tight quickly . there have been plenty of times I wish my 7 X 10 lathe was a 7 x 14.
also here is another engine that would work well on a Sherline sized lathe.
http://www.john-tom.com/MyPlans/SteamPlans3/RiverQueenEngine/RiverQueenPlansInstruction.pdf
Tin


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## New_Guy

welcome shlomo 

what ever choice you of brand you chose get a lathe and mill at the same time i wish i had i got a great big lathe cheap and new but for the price i could have got a small mini lathe and mill and i could have got started sooner with less head aches i still dont have a mill so im trying to save for that i wont be making the same mistake again ill get a X2 seig mill 

when you buy your lathe factor in your accessories most only come with 3 jaw chucks and very soon you will want a 4 jaw chuck and other things like a drill chuck, live center, traveling and 3 point steadies and even latter maybe collets oh and dont forget twist drills, center drills and HSS tool bits you will want that stuff first 

for the mill you will need a collet chuck (dont use a drill chuck to mill with) a vice, end mills and slot drills, you will soon want a rotary table, parallels and a clamp set but if your smart you can make your own parallels by using square HSS and mill some plate to size and a make a clamp set but first just order a few T nuts to hold the vice and you are set for your first project

i haven't listed everything you will want just some basics and remember the prices go up as the size goes up so small is not so bad

i hope i could helped and again welcome to the forum


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## mark p

well I have a sherline mill and lathe, a taig lathe and a sieg 7*12 (and a few more :-\ )
the taig was first and is well built and very affordable
the 7*12 is good for roughing larger parts out but without more work on the machine it's no good for repeatable work
the sherline is in a class of its own, much more precise than I will be for a while.
if I had to do it over I would skip the taig and sieg as they haven't been used lately


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## Deanofid

Hi Shlomo;

I've owned both the Sherline and Taig lathes, and both the Sherline and Taig milling machines. I've made a number of engines using both lathes and mills. I've never used any kind of CNC machine. 
You can do wood work on any of them. You just need to clean up well when you're done.

Lathes:
Both the Taig and Sherline lathes are excellent machines. Very high quality and both quite precise. When it comes to the quality of the machines, the only thing the Sherline has on the Taig is a nicer paint job. Either of them will do what they were made to do right out of the box. You don't have to work on them to get them to do close work.

The Sherline lathe I owned was the long bed model. I would consider that over the short one. My current small lathe is the Taig. I sold the Sherline. For me, the Taig is better at what these small machines do, but I could do the same work on the Sherline lathe. I simply like the Taig better.

Milling Machines:
The Sherline mill is very nice, and will do fine work. It really is as simple as that. 
The Taig milling machine is twice the machine that the Sherline is. The Taig is much sturdier and easily as accurate as the Sherline, (which is very good, for either of them).
Again, for either of them, you don't have to work on them to get them up and running or keep them accurate.

If I had money and a choice between Sherline machines or Taig, I can say for certain I would get the Taig machines. I just like them better. I'll also say, I can make the same projects on either. I don't want you to think that either of them has a deficiency. They are both good machines.

If I lived in your part of the world, I would pick the machine that was readily available. It's nice to have a place to go for parts or accessories that isn't half way around the world. 

For more info on Taig machines, check http://www.cartertools.com/
Nick Carter is probably the best known Taig retailer in the United States, and can help you with purchasing one if that is your decision. 

Dean


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## mark p

more than a paint job, the calibrated carriage advance is what I find most helpful


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## Deanofid

mark p  said:
			
		

> more than a paint job, the calibrated carriage advance is what I find most helpful



It can be nice, on some occasions. Personally, I didn't consider it a convenience. The opposite, really.

To move the Sherline carriage 10", you have to crank the handle for the carriage 200 revolutions, and that was probably the single thing I liked least about the Sherline lathe. The Taig has a rack and pinion similar to a larger lathe and you can make a 10" carriage move on it in about three seconds. It takes quite a while on the Sherline. For measuring carriage movement on the Taig, I use a DI and carriage stop, just like on my larger lathes.

I'm not saying it's a fault with either machine. I've had a Taig for about five years. I had the Sherline lathe for about seven years before that.  They will both do the same (high) quality work right out of the box. 

Dean


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## shlomo

Hi, 
While we are at the topic, I saw a reference to this lathe in some other post http://www.cowells.com/index.htm which looks nice but costs 1800 British pounds and is out of my budget ... and an excellent post here:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cowells-90cw.html

There is also an excellent list of engines here: http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/steammodels/steammodelsindex.htm and I was specifically looking at :
www.steves-workshop.co.uk/steammodels/simpleoscil/simpleoscil.html 

Thank you all,


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## davehall

hey all.
I am REALLY new to this subject and still a ways off from purchase. When I spend hours reading about these machines and looking at the pictures on the web, I can't help but thinking the China versions LOOK more substantial. I guess it looks more like a miniature version of the professional lathes. Every time I look at the Sherline or the Taig they seem like toys. Actually the Taig looks like a homemade project to me.

I can't help enter this hobby without feeling the testosterone production associated with forming metal to my will, yet most e-pinions favor the dainty look over the bull-dog look.

Irony aside, I am looking for reassurances that size(weight) does not matter. ..... Could I put a piece of really hard metal in the US machines and take just as big a cut?

thanks ahead of time for the response,
dave (the NOOB)


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## Tin Falcon

Dave welcome . Please post an into in the welome are when you get a chance.
 Dave : IMHO the favor towards the Sherline and taig is the Made in USA Most US folks would prefer to support fellow US workers when one can. And the quality is built in. The seig while a bit more substantial does not have the reputation of quality and fit /finish. 
You want a machine tool to operate smooth as silk across the full range of motion this is where the seig falls short and a bit of TLC and re manufacturing of gibs and such comes in. 
Size: bigger is better in that you can make bigger parts for things . but if the longest thing you ever turn is only six inches long a 12 or 14 center to center lathe is fine, remember room for tooling such as drills and reamers. A beefier machine will resist twisting and a heaver lathe is a bit more stable. A small lathe can be attached to say a concrete top bench to add mass if desired and folks have poured composite material epoxy and stone into the base and column of the sieig mill to add mass. This does not turn it into a Bridgeport but does reduce vibration and that adds to the finish of the part. A pulley add on aslo helps noise and vibration. 
FYI My first lathe was is a seig 7 x 10. 
IIRC it is hard to find a person that has not loved there taig or sherline as a first lathe. Yes many have decided to buy a larger one later on. Many still keep the little lathe. 
On the other hand some have learned to work with and love there small seig. Others have been tempted to convert them to boat anchors. Ultimately it is your money and you need to be comfortable with the purchase of your lathe or mill. As they say pay your money and take your chances . I have seen great work produced on all of the mentioned machines. 
Shlomo:
  any f the machines can work wood . a caravat though use a shop vac to keep the dust down wood dust can damage bearings etc if it gets in the wrong places. I paid for much of my machinery by making pen pencil sets. so I know where you come from to some extent. 
Tin


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## sportandmiah

I own asian made machines as well as a Sherline lathe with milling column. The asian machines are large, heavy, and not the most accurate machines by any means. But they do work well for larger work, are affordable, and thousands of users swear by them.

The Sherline is the textbook definition of perfection. They are super accurate, precise, easy to use. Tons of accessories, all made perfectly as well. The attention to detail is second to none. It is so smooth that one wonders why the asian machines don't follow suit. 

I don't own a taig, but it appears to be a less expensive version of the Sherline. Again, thousands swear by them. Check Nick Carter's page.

The difference in quality between an asian made machine and a Sherline is night and day.


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## steamer

I would second the remarks made. If you very new to turning or machining, I would go with a machine you don't have to tweak or "upgrade" to make it function correctly...and although I can appreciate your fascination with "manly" chip making, that shouldn't be attempted on any lathe until the operator can anticipate the ramifications of the speed, feed, setup, material being machined, tool material, cutting lubricant, and machine capability....to name a few.  A wise man knows when then "don't know"

I would also point out that with bigger lathes, come more expensive tooling.
A 12" or bigger lathe will have minimum $300-500 chucks, $50 dollar centers, ect....and you can't just pick one up and move it.

These small lathes are very portable and very inexpensive to tool up.  The Sherline holds it value very well, so if or when you want to move up, you can sell it for almost what you paid for it. 
Additionally, I have never heard anyone complain about the quality of Sherline lathes...though this thread may be a first.....I have heard plenty about the Seig being more or less of a "kit" lathe that needs "massaging".  In fairness, I have heard that the Microlux versions have most of this work already done on them.

If I had to live in an appartment, and had to sell my shop, I would buy the Sherline and leave it in a closet....ready to go....just my opinion...worth exactly what you paid for it. 

Dave


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## Tin Falcon

In a pro shop it is about time and speed. time is money. especially if a job shop that charges flat rate. The machines are big the motors are powerful and one may take .250 hogging cut on a large part. the object is take as few cuts as possible and hit the high side of tolerance on a turning cut and get er done. Quick.!! Or so I have heard while I am experiences in several environments of machine a high pressure job shop was not one of them. I have worked in USAF maintenance/fabrication shop and a precision grinding shop and as a cnc lathe operator doing production work. And of course my home hobby shop. 
I will admit successfully taking .250 rough cuts in aluminum on my shaper to see if my tool grinding and the machine were up to it. After a dozen or so strokes of the shaper I backed off. Why stress a 60 year old machine that parts are expensive and hard to find. so I backed of to a .125 doc the machine ran smooth and I finished the job. 
Home shop machining is about fun, and learning. Breaking parts of a brand new machine(or a vintage one) is not fun. Getting hurt is not fun. HSM is about learning to cut metal. And a lot to learn there is many metals, many alloys. each has there own need for speed feed and depth of cut. 
It is learning about your machine what can it do where are the limits and to some extent how do you go beyond the manufactured limits safely. It is also learning about and teaching yourself how to use the machines and cut metal. If you work within the limits of safety the home shop is like a university lab no mistakes just learning experiences. 
Home machining more is about patience finesse, attention to detail planning jobs and working smarter not harder. Also the home shop allows for creativity that time does not allow for in the production or job shop environment. 
Tin


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## bearcar1

The two major factors in my mind when it comes to comparing machines are the availability and selection of tooling and the overall quality of workmanship on the machine itself. That is to say, sure, you can 'save' : "X" amount of dollars on a given machine. Great. But then if you wind up spending "X+?" of time and additional money getting that same great deal of a machine up to decent standards, then you haven't really 'saved' anything at all and now own something that is held together with duct tape and bailing wire, metaphorically speaking of course. Great 'deals' can be found on many machines but only after the purchase does the buyer find out that available tooling only consists of maybe one or two items, these usually being merely larger sizes of what is already owned and again, of questionable accuracy. 

I've never owned or operated any of the Taig machines but have seen some beautiful work that has been produced from them and I believe that those machines do not have any of the major issues that I mentioned associated with them. I do own the line of Sherline machines and can speak quite expertly about the high standard of build quality of these machines AND their tooling line is very extensive. Individual parts for all of their machines is avaliable and in stock so user servicing is a relative breeze. Sherline has obviously done their homework in terms of producing a high quality standard machine and coupled that with the operator/owner in mind. 

Selecting a machine that is best suited for the type of work doesn't have to be a hand wringing experience. Just decide on the factors that are most important to you (size, cost, ease of maintenance, size handling capabilities, etc.) and go form there. 


BC1
Jim


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## shred

My first machines were a Taig lathe and mill. I still have 'em both and they are excellent in their size classes, but they are just that: small, high precision machines. With more shop room and a desire to work on larger things, I've since bought larger machines. I believe the experience I got using the little ones (as I had virtually none beforehand) helped a lot.


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## Tin Falcon

> Could I put a piece of really hard metal in the US machines and take just as big a cut?


I used to run a commercial production (sort of, manual tool change) CNC lathe IIRC 5HP motor.
We cut IIRC 4150 pre hardened to a Rc of 34 to 38. this was and every day event no big deal . I tried a piece of scrap on my South bend 9" with a 1/4 HP motor. That steel just about laughed at me and the machine , like you what to do what?? I may not have been using the correct feed speed but do not expect to be doing a heavy rough cut on pre hardened steel on any small hobby machine.You just can not do the same thing on a fractional HP machine as a mufti HP machine. Kind of like pulling a twenty gang plow with a lawn tractor. 
Tin


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## steamer

Tin hit the spot there....my 12" logan will chew on 4150HT if asked to with carbide....NOT HSS. It would smoke that tool right off the holder.
But I'll tell you, you gotta "ask nice"!   

I don't think any of these small lathes would do particularly well here.....

However, I think 1144SP would turn OK on the Sherline or the Seig....and is plenty strong for model engine building ( yield strength in the 100K range).  I wouldn't let that deter you.

I just read a right up in MEW about the new brushless motor in the Seig...sounds like a step in the right direction.

Dave


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## davehall

after much examination, my testosterone surge is subsiding. Funny when us total noobs first start searching the web, all we see is the mini-lathe. Took me a bit to really SEE the Sherline. I really had no idea what precision was until i found this site :bow: and those MIT videos that you have linked on 'getting started' page.

Dave (the Future Sherline Owner)

I think I'm gonna tell my wife it is for making jewelry


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## Tin Falcon

Dave do not think you will be disappointed. I started out with a very limited budget for metal lathe. I chose a grizzly seig closeout. 
It has worked for me but may not have been the best choice. I am not sure if my experience in machining (USAF Tech school)
helped me see the flaws or helped be get beyond them . Probably both. 
Happy machining 
Tin


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## steamer

"....I think I'm gonna tell my wife it is for making jewelry..."

Yeah Yeah...that's the ticket! ;D

Welcome to the wonderful world!......

Dave


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## ttrikalin

davehall  said:
			
		

> I think I'm gonna tell my wife it is for making jewelry



Did not fly with mine... :-\

take care 

tom


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## Tin Falcon

Wives are more favorable towards a home shop when you make them stuff. I found a set of brass candlestick castings machined them up as a Christmas present one year. IIRc there are plans out there for some nice nut crackers . 
Tin


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