# First engine, the little machine shop oscillating engine.



## metalnwood (Nov 18, 2009)

Hi, I decided my first engine would be a simple one and this one had a good set of drawings.

  I just needed to convert a couple of things to metric and get some 6mm drill rod and I am now ready. The plans are simple enough but I have stumbled across a problem which I am sure someone can confirm for me..

  There is a machine screw which goes through the upright in to the cylinder block.  I guess the idea is that this with the spring has a light tension to keep the cylinder block against the upright, right? Either that or it is just providing a pivot.  Either way the screw should thread in to something but on the plans I don't see a thread in the cylinder block for it or in the upright.

  I am not familiar with imperial so perhaps one of these sizes is correct for a tap, not sure. Any confirmation would be appreciated,

  pdf is here to have a quick look. http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/Drawings/2593OscillatingEngineAssembly.pdf

Thanks,
Jason


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## Metal Butcher (Nov 18, 2009)

The part that goes in the hole on the cylinder is the pivot pin (the cylinder pivots or wobbles held against the upright (frame) with the spring. The pivot pin is usually threaded only on one end to hold the spring and spring retaining nut. This means it is (pivot pin) either soldered, press fit, or loc-tited in place. This will be a choice based on materials used, example- brass pin soldered to a brass cylinder would work well. It looks like the pivot pin in this drawing is a threaded machine screw . Not a good way to make a pivot point in my opinion, but that's what this kit/plan provides. The drawing seems to lack its (pivot pin) tapping instructions for t he cylinder, but 13# on the first page gives the thread dimensions of 10-32,

Very nice project! Please post your progress, and welcome to our forum!

-MB


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## metalnwood (Nov 18, 2009)

OK, I wrote a reply with a couple more questions but then it clicked, I had understood your reply wrong..

  OK, so it's soldered/pressed etc in to the cylinder block and the pin is actually rotating in the upright, not in the cylinder block, this way the spring arrangement can work.

  I think I am there.. I will go and see what I can do now!  

Thanks,
Jason


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 18, 2009)

Jason:
  The cylinder shows the hole drilled and tapped for the 10-32 machine screw. They apparently missed the hole thread call out but if you look at the drawing the hidden lines show a threaded hole.  part 13 on the drawing and a through hole drilled in the upright part #1 sheet 2.
You will likely want to use an M5-.80 metric screw if you are keeping things the same size. This is very close to a 10 -32 unf

Here is a link for fractional /decimal/metric equivalents

http://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/DecEquiv.php
And a tap drill clearance drill chart in imperial and metric. 
http://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/TapDrillSizes.pdf

You are correct the part 13 is indeed a pivot and the spring keeps tension between the cylinder and upright. That spind kind of also acts as a built in safety release in that the air steam leaks from between the cylinder and block usually around 30 psi on most oscillators.

An alternate method as suggested by MB would be to solder a pin in and thread the outer end and use a nut but that will not work with aluminum witch is the specified material for the cylinder. You would have to change the cylinder to brass. 


The pivot does indeed move in relationship to the upright and is solid in the cylinder but it certainly can be threaded in you may need a dab of light grade lock tight .
Hope this helps 
Tin


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## black85vette (Nov 18, 2009)

Looks like they have two versions. I remembered using their instructions when I built mine so I went back and looked for it.  Here is the file with the instructions and plans.  It has the 10-32 call out for the cylinder. 

View attachment 2593OscillatingEngineAssembly.pdf


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## metalnwood (Nov 18, 2009)

Thanks guys, well here is the start of the pictures.

  You guys seem to like pics of the same things over and over and I must admit that I never get bored looking at things set up on the lathe and mill.

   So lets start with a boring one..  I roughly cut the stock on the bandsaw and milled them to size.  Then tapped drilled etc and I now have the base and upright. The upright needs to be finished of course.

   It was a bit of a mission to start as I had the dividing head set up so that needed to go, put the vise on and square that up. I was stumped when I was at the bansdaw because the table looked like it was on an angle. I looked and it wasnt so I cut but my eye kept telling me it was out.

  Then when I went to remove the dividing head from the mill I put it on it's table which looked to be sagging in the middle.  Very strange as I made it from steel and theres never enough weight on it for that..

  Then I realised. My 2yr old broke my glasses and they currently sit on my nose at an angle, they were making everything seem bent!  I hand't noticed it until I got to the workshop where there are so many things you want straight!


  I need to finish the milling before I do the turning as I may need to set up the dividing head again at anytime.

Jason


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## Twmaster (Nov 18, 2009)

And off to a good start!


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 18, 2009)

Great start metalnwood. Looking forward to more.
Speaking of 'looking', I know what you mean about glasses. I have a magnifying glass on my portable light...drives me nuts...I'm always thinking my mill is out of tram. :big:


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## arnoldb (Nov 19, 2009)

Welcome to HMEM & a good start metalnwood. A sensible choice for a first build engine as well.

Don't let the imperial measurements put you off; you'll soon get used to converting it.
I also have metric equipment for the most part; what I do when I get an imperial plan is I print it out, and sit down with a calculator and convert all the dimensions to their closest metric equivalents. On these wobbler engines most of the dimensions are not too critical. The only areas you need to take care of when converting are mating parts (shafts & bushes, cylinder & piston etc.) For example, if a shaft is specified as 1/4" and you make it 6mm, you have to make sure that any holes/bushes the shaft will go through are also made 6mm (actually something like 6.05mm for a running fit) and the hole in the flywheel that goes on the shaft is also made 6mm.

Keep a cheap & cheerful pocket calculator around the shop; makes life a lot easier. Most digital calipers can switch between metric/imperial, making conversion very easy.

Regards, Arnold


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## metalnwood (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks Arnold.  I am actually quite used to working in imperial.

  Although New Zealand is metric you just can't get away from imperial when dealing with plans from the states. You are right, the only time it get's tricky is when I want to use metric fasteners and I need to adjust other dimensions for that.

  I need to look things up because I am not used to things like a number 10 drill which doesn't even tell you the maximum diamter. From that point of view having an M6 that means the diameter is 6 is kind of helpful 

  No problems though.  I just finished the cylinder. I wish I had 1" square stock to begin with but I only had 2" square so I cut it down on the bandsaw first. That was getting hot!

  It's getting bed time over here so I will continue tomorrow if the kids let me.

Jason


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## metalnwood (Nov 19, 2009)

What a wally, never take a mill to something after breakfast without looking at the plans!

  I looked at my cylinder and saw the M5 thread I had tapped and thought, why didn't I bore that all the way through? So I went down and put a 3.3mm drill in and drilled all the way through. Next I went looking for the air intake to thread in, it was gone! I looked further and found it screwed in to the upright, then it hit me I was machining the right thing on the wrong part.. argh.

  This is why I was looking at it thinking I was sure I had done it and I had, in the right place! No matter, the one I screwed up was for the pivot pin so I will put a bit of sealant in when I put it together so the air wont escape. I cant imagine a little hole in the side of the wall will impact things..


 Bummer though..

Jason


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## metalnwood (Nov 19, 2009)

I can only laugh at myself now! I am trying to get through this too quickly and am screwing things up as I go, basic mistakes..

  I didn't mention that when I bored the cylinder on the mill with a boring head I went oversize by accident, I hadnt used the boring head for a little while and I forgot how many turns I needed for the diameter..  So in a rough pass I went over. 

  I left it and came back later taking it out knowing that I would do the piston to match. 

   I did the piston, it was beautiful! It matched about as well as I could have wanted to on the second light pass..  I put it in and got it stuck. I realised I didnt do and finishing passes on the bore so it had a taper on it. Now the piston is well stuck and will not come out..  It is a bit damaged in trying to get it out..

  I think I will go and get a 1/2" reamer.. I have a mind to do a few more engines and elmers factory engine uses a 1/2" piston as well so it won't be a one off..

  Tomorrow, saturday here I will do it all again! With care and patience I should have had in the first place 

Jason


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## Twmaster (Nov 19, 2009)

Jason, welcome to the wonderful world of Duh! I have a box. It's full of stuff I bolloxed while machining. I call that the 'box of misfit parts'. Now and then I find a use for a misfit or three....
 :big:


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## rake60 (Nov 20, 2009)

metalnwood  said:
			
		

> I can only laugh at myself now! I am trying to get through this too quickly and am screwing things up as I go, basic mistakes..



I hate being forced to say this Jason.
Regardless of what any high school guidance counselor or therapist may have told you in the past,
*YOU ARE PERFECTLY NORMAL!*  

Slow down a bit and it will all come together.

Rick


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## vedoula (Nov 20, 2009)

metalnwood  said:
			
		

> I did the piston, it was beautiful! It matched about as well as I could have wanted to on the second light pass..  I put it in and got it stuck. I realised I didnt do and finishing passes on the bore so it had a taper on it. Now the piston is well stuck and will not come out..  It is a bit damaged in trying to get it out..



what materials are the piston and the cylinder made of? If they are not the same material, differential expansion at different temperatures is your friend. Think heating (oven/boil) or freezing...

vedoula


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## metalnwood (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks guys, thats it - just take my time a bit more. The day only got worse though.

  The kids and I hopped in the car to pick up my wife, we were driving along in slow close traffic when my son started to cry and kept on crying. His toy dog had fallen on the ground.. I bent around, picked it up and handed it back. I turned back to the traffic (eyes off the road for a second) and in to the back of the car in front! Boy was I feeling sorry for myself. Lucky it was very minor with only a bent licence plate on mine and who knows what happened to the other car as it was a panelbeaters spare that had already taken a few hits on the back..

  Anyway, I now have a new blank cylinder stick ready for drilling and reaming tomorrow.

  I normally dont work on small stuff like this so I spend a lot of time getting it to size. The only steel I had was a bit over 1" for the piston so I will have to take all that off again as well.

  I am glad my lathe is 16" 7.5hp otherwise I could really be spending time on it..

  I have listed some stuff on our local ebay like site. I expect I will be able to get some nice materials for the next build..

JAson


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## metalnwood (Nov 20, 2009)

OK, back on track, forgotten all the errors so far 

  I have redone the cylinder, using a reamer this to finish this time. No problems here. I was going to do the piston next but I already started to do the fly wheel so I will have to finish that first.

  Here are the pieces so far..


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## metalnwood (Nov 20, 2009)

I can see that I may need to purchase a little more tooling to do some of these jobs.

  My lathe tools are to large to work on the little wheel : So instead of turning out the inside of the wheel I moved it on to the mill and the dividing head. The dividing head is good but it takes up a lot of vertical space when it's turned this way around and has the chuck on it. Another thing to get, a chuck for my rotary table... The list is endless 

  First I went around the outside diameter with a 12mm ballnose taking it to the correct depth. I then rough milled in to the center and finished the inside diameter. Being a ballnose it wont give me a flat surface, I am not a human cnc ;D

  I then put in a slot drill and tried to blend the surfaces which came out ok. Put it back on the lathe to run some wet and dry over it and I think it looks ok. That frees up the lathe for the piston now..


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 20, 2009)

That came out pretty good metalnwood.
I'm going to have to experiment with that idea myself.


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## Russel (Nov 21, 2009)

Wow, nice flywheel! 

zeeprogrammer isn't the only one that will be trying ball end mills on flywheels.

Russ


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## Twmaster (Nov 21, 2009)

What a great idea for surfacing that flywheel! 

*sigh* More tools I cannot buy right now...


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## metalnwood (Nov 21, 2009)

Well, I sure didn't think I would be showing you something interesting!

  As I say, for a small flywheel like this - 2.5" my tool on the lathe is too big to get in there easily and I couldn't be bothered grinding something to use. All my tooling is the insert type on a 3/4" holder.

  I was tempted to try and put curved spokes on it as I have seen around here but I thought better about ruining another piece just now.

  Just about finished another piston but had to stop to give the kids dinner..

  I had a small piece of bronze just over .5" diameter so I decided to use that rather then turn down the much larger diameter steel I had around. I hope bronze isnt an issue for a piston.. maybe a waste though.


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## metalnwood (Nov 21, 2009)

Hi all, I have a bit of a question.  I have done the piston and I am not really sure of what is a good fit..

  The cylinder is bored to .5" and it reads exactly that (.5000) with my calipers. The piston is reads .0015" under. The movement is nice but the air pressure is my only concern, probably no concern at all given the psi it will likely be driven at..

  it will fall under it's weight ,1oz, and take about 8.5 seconds to fall 1.4" with a quiet hiss of air passing by. Would I be ok with this?

  Oh, and the pic..


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 21, 2009)

You should be fine go with it 
Tin


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## metalnwood (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks Tin, hope so, not far away from finding out.

  It was a little longer then expected because I couldnt put in the chuck of the dividing head as I wanted. The only way I could do it is if I held the piston by the head which I didnt want to do, I was bound to scratch it..

  I ended up putting it on a v block but even then the clamps were too big to let me get at the end so I had to make a quicky from a bit of aluminium.. I have found that the quick change tool post things from the lathe make good V blocks 

  Now I have a bit of measuring to do because the cylinder block doesnt clear the crank wheel, very strange as everything was measured and looked good. The only thing I didnt measure was on the upright as I just used the DRO on the mill, if thats the problem then operator error


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## metalnwood (Nov 21, 2009)

And it turns out that is exactly what the problem is.. I must have transposed some number or something..

  Too late to look at it now.. Thankfully it's a rather easy piece but I am getting worried that I have almost built two of these engines now and will only have one to show for it :big:


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## ozzie46 (Nov 21, 2009)

Only 2, A lot of us probably have almost 4 or 5 of the same engine. :big: :big: :big:

 Ron


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## metalnwood (Nov 21, 2009)

Oh boy, I milled to size the new upright and before I started to drill I thought I would re check the old one to see where I went wrong and not do it again.. I thought perhaps I had not adjustedm for the diameter of the edgefinder..

  When I looked at it again it was correct.. ??? ???

  It turns out when I checked it last night I used my vernier calipers which I dont use often and read the inside value, not the outside value..

  So what was wrong? I dont believe it, it's the cylinder block.. Again. I measured and drilled from the wrong end of the bore so the pivot is in the wrong place..

  Did I mention that after all of that cutting 2" square stock down to 1" I found so just over 1"?  So I guess it will be easier this time.. oh boy.


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## Kermit (Nov 21, 2009)

I once had to remove and reinstall the connectors on ten seperate identical cables. 12 conductors each. One of these was a ground, shield wire that soldered onto a tab attached to a thin washer that went on the connector before the shell was put back together.  I got everything taken apart easy peasy. Made the changes to the cables and started putting it all back together. Got all the wires soldered into a connector and the ground ring is there hanging in the breeze. soldered it on no problem. except ALL the wires needed to pass through the center of the damn thing BEFORE the other wires get soldered back on the connector. I un-did and re-did all the solder joints and finally got it put together right.

I did the very same thing on the next cable I picked up.  ;D


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## ttrikalin (Nov 21, 2009)

> I did the very same thing on the next cable I picked up.
> [\quote]
> 
> Hahahahahaha it took me a while to understand -- :big:
> ...


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## metalnwood (Nov 22, 2009)

Hmm, I had a missing post somewhere. No matter..  I do the same thing all the time when making up cables!

  I am only saved if I havent done the other end yet so I can slip it on there.

  I put it all together and put some air through it. To my surprise it ran  and then it didn't..  

  It took a little bit of tweaking and I am still not sure what to tinker to have it running better.. I might try putting a solid diameter throught the upright for the pivot pin. It's threaded all the way at the moment and that might be letting it move a bit and bind..

  Anyway, here it is..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjYdGS5Q4Io]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjYdGS5Q4Io[/ame]


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## ttrikalin (Nov 22, 2009)

metalnwood  said:
			
		

> It took a little bit of tweaking and I am still not sure what to tinker to have it running better.. I might try putting a solid diameter throught the upright for the pivot pin. It's threaded all the way at the moment and that might be letting it move a bit and bind..



I bet this is it. (Also a bit of thin oil never hurt anyone -- just don't run it on a white table cloth... I did but my wife was not around... and put a coaster on it... it's 1 day and 10 hours and still going well 8))

:bow: 
Nice smooth running mate -- sure you haven't done this before???


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## Maryak (Nov 22, 2009)

metalnwood  said:
			
		

> I might try putting a solid diameter throught the upright for the pivot pin. It's threaded all the way at the moment and that might be letting it move a bit and bind..



Congratulations and I think you may have nailed the problem. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## metalnwood (Nov 22, 2009)

I guess this type of engine is never going to be as smooth as others with a big cylinder block rubbing against an upright.. I suppose with a bit more polishing it could run better. I put some oil between the cylinder block and the upright but it doest take long for it to get blown out.

 It seems critical to get the spacing between the crank and the flywheel right, to much play and the piston can sometimes bind , to close and the wheels rub against the upright.

  I might take off the crank wheel and give it a good file where it touches the upright to make sure there isnt anything spoiling it there..

  Oh well, this was just to waste some time until I cold get some money for the next one.. 
\


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## ttrikalin (Nov 22, 2009)

This is a nice concept - continuous improvements... 

"Pimp my steamer"


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## metalnwood (Nov 22, 2009)

ok, so I did a new pin..  I dont usually deal with anything smaller then M6 so I dont have any dies for m4 or m5. The cylinder block is tapped for M5. I had some old 5mm silver steel around so I needed to cut a screw on it for m5.

  Then I find my lathe doesn't do m5 or m4!! I have never needed to so I didn't know. it will do smaller screws and finer pitches but somehow misses these..

  This lathe has a leadscrew for screw cutting but uses a seperate rack and pinion for the carriage feed. There was a feed which was .79mm/turn which matched the .8mm pitch so I did it this way. It worked out ok as well..


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## metalnwood (Nov 22, 2009)

I put it back together and gave it a run. I little tinker with the spring tension and it's now a runner ;D

  Thats one under my belt hehe.. Now to find some good plans for a horizontal factory/mill type engine.


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## arnoldb (Nov 22, 2009)

Good job metalnwood  - Nice feeling isn't it?

There are some good free plans on the john-tom site.

Regards, Arnold


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## metalnwood (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks Arnold, I had a quick look there a week ago and must go back.

 I have one more very poor quality video done on the phone.. its really ticking along nicely now.. the vid is two minutes because I start to see how slowly it will go.. It really needs the oil though, I am using the light oil for my air tools.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qub0VDMmE1A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qub0VDMmE1A[/ame]


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 22, 2009)

A week and 20 + posts on the board and you have your first runner. Good going mate. As far as those practice parts you made. se la vi. I have told people the home shop is like a university engineering lab . No mistakes just lots of learning experience gained. 
Looks like a big fat A on yours first assignment buddy. Now you can go onto bigger and better things or Make a couple of those for the kids for Christmas. and hone the basics a little more before moving on. 
Again good going.
Tin


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## ozzie46 (Nov 22, 2009)

Congrats on your FIRST runner. May there be many more. ;D ;D

 Ron


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 22, 2009)

MNW:
    Here is another great Model engineering site. No steam engines but lots of flame eater ,Internal combustion and sterling all dimensioned in metric. Jan used to have free downloads but the band width thing has caused him to stop this. He will however e -mail plans on request free of charge. 

http://heetgasmodelbouw.ridders.nu/index.htm
also many of his plans are on other sites and can be downloaded from them as well. 
Tin


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 22, 2009)

Wow. Seemed like we went from 'hello'...to 'I blinked'....to 'first runner'!
Congratulations. Great job. I'll be interested in what mill engine you pick.


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## metalnwood (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks all, I like spending time in the workshop so as usual it was fun building it, although frustrating doing the cylinder bore three times ;D

  I nearly did it four times with the same mistake.  I looked at the plans again and there is something counter intuitive about that drawing the makes you want to put the holes the wrong way around from the bore.

  Next time I will start to think of it as one of my regular things. Usually everything I do is carefully calculated because I dont want to write off $200-300 of material and 10+ hours of machining.  Treating the engine as a quick toy had me make more mistakes in a week then I would hope to make in a lot longer time.. oh well 

  One thing I will become envious of is the smaller lathe that a lot of you have. Mine is good for what I want, it's large, 16" swing, nearly 7000 pounds but for doing a lot of small things like the model engineering it would be nice to be able to sit down and still see and work at what you are doing.  I have been keeping my eye out for time to time for something smaller but $$ is a consideration at the moment..  I have been off work for 11 months so not much in the way of disposable income.

  It does give me some time to do these projects though. A couple days a week I am free, the rest of the week I look after my small kids so I can't leave them alone or they raid everything and get in to trouble..  Too young to properly tell off.

  Tin Falcon, I will have a look at that site. I see another member is doing one of his horizontal engines. Just what I want to do and if the plans are metric I will be over to have a look.

  It's nice that people freely talk about their mistakes here. I know more than one person who would make the mistakes and just post the final bits as if it all went 100%. Ego's are at stake I guess but the mistakes are part of it.

Thanks,
Jason


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 22, 2009)

Jason:
I thought about suggesting that you have a smooth pin in the pivot but you figured it out on your own the other thing I have done is put a brass sleeve or pain bushing in the pivot hole then the screw catches on the sleeve. Being out of work that long is tough I have done it was able to fill in with sporadic day work here and there a bit. But no fun. 
Enjoy your time with the kids before you know it they will be 20 years old and driving and will have given you a few gray hairs. DAMHIKT
 ;D 
The grass is always greener on e other side of the fence a lot of us here wish for a larger lathe. I guess we all need to be thankful for the lot that was cast upon us and make the best with what we have and make the most of each day as it comes. 
Tin


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## Metal Butcher (Nov 22, 2009)

metalnwood  said:
			
		

> I put it back together and gave it a run. I little tinker with the spring tension and it's now a runner ;D
> 
> Thats one under my belt hehe.. Now to find some good plans for a horizontal factory/mill type engine.



Congrats's on your successful build! :bow:

Can ya please slow down a bit, your making me real nervous! ;D

All kidding aside, that was surprisingly quick.

Take a look at Elmer's #41 Factory Engine. Its a dandy and may be just what your looking for.
http://www.john-tom.com/html/ElmersEngines.html

EDIT: I meant #41, not #42, sorry.

-MB


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## Deanofid (Nov 23, 2009)

Great results on your first runner, Jason. Congratulations!
I watched the second video, and it runs very well, indeed.

Dean


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