# Mill experiences



## artist334 (Nov 13, 2013)

Hey 

I have been lurking around in the dark corners of this forums 
learning from the masters. I bought a mini lathe about one year 
ago. I have done quit a bit of parts for my projects with it. But I 
run into the "need a mill" problem bit too often so its about time to
get one. There few interesting choices for me. 

Sieg SX2. 
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...ies/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X2-Plus-Mill

Sieg SU1.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-su1-universal-mill

ZX30M: Sure a lot more rugged machine but it might just be too big for me.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-zx30m-mill-drill

So I would be more than interested to see parts made by similar mills. 
Also I would like to hear about how they perform (not what is the best but 
what each can do.) What is the practical milling and drilling capacity? What kind of projects have you done with one? 

Best regards 

Henri from Finland


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## Dave Sohlstrom (Nov 13, 2013)

Do not I repeat do not get the ZX30M. The round column does not hold position when you move the head up or down. If you need to move the head up for a longer drill you will loose your position for the hole location.

Both of the other mills look good. The universal mill is not a true universal. A true universal was horz only and the table had the ability to swivel so you could cut helical gears on them. They were big machines weighing several tons.

If you do a lot of drilling the universal will be a pain.

Dave


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 13, 2013)

Well Henry a lot to think about. 

1) the x-2 are very popular and a common choice for the first milling machine in a home shop capable but smallish. A lot can be made with them but within the limits of the machine. I have had one of these for over ten years. 

2) SU1 they look like a cool option but you are limited in drilling capability what we refer to is Z axis travel. IMHO could be nice as a second mill but probably not your only mill. 
If someone has one of these please tell us your experience with it. 

3)ZX30M  is a round column mill. these are mostly a rugged drill press. they are beefy enough to mill on the problem with these is whenever you raise or lower the head. you need to reference off the part because the head turns on the round column. 

4) SX3 these are well liked I have never heard any serious complaints about these. Guys tend to hang onto them unless they upgrade to a Bridgeport. 
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-x3-super-tilt-head-mill-drill
And if this is outside your budget I understand I feel the same way . 

5) Would you please post an introduction in the welcome area. Tell us about yourself your shop and your interest in model engineering. And kudos for at least telling us what country you are from. 

6) all of these machines have been discussed here before a little searching the forum may give more info and insight. 

Tin


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## e.picler (Nov 13, 2013)

Hi Henri!
Be well come to the forum.
I would recommend to you the BF20 Vario from Optimum. This is a German brand produced in China.
http://www.optimum-machines.com/products/milling-machines/bf-20-vario/index.html
I have one of this machine. It have very good quality, resonable capacity and holds good tolerances. After a year of use I installed a CNC kit (from Optimum). I very very happy with it.
I also have a small lathe from the same brand.

Good luck with your choice.

Edi


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## Wizard69 (Nov 13, 2013)

artist334 said:


> Hey  I have been lurking around in the dark corners of this forums learning from the masters. I bought a mini lathe about one year ago. I have done quit a bit of parts for my projects with it. But I run into the "need a mill" problem bit too often so its about time to get one. There few interesting choices for me.


One important thing to realize is the mill has to be capable of doing the jobs you are looking forward to.   So you really have to do some soul searching to determine what sort of capacity you will need now and into the future.  



> Sieg SX2. http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X2-Plus-Mill


In the US this variant is often referred to as a the solid column option.     While I don't like that description it is a far better value than the original design.    Of the three on this list this is the only one worth your time in my opinion.   However I wouldn't run out and buy the machine based on that, you really should take a long hard look at everything else on the market.    


> Sieg SU1. http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-su1-universal-mill


I can not recommend this mill to anybody, unless they have very specific interest.   The axis travels and clearance are below minimal in my estimation.  


> ZX30M: Sure a lot more rugged machine but it might just be too big for me. http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-zx30m-mill-drill


Others have already pointed out why this is a bad machine.    I would not recommend it at all.    


> So I would be more than interested to see parts made by similar mills. Also I would like to hear about how they perform (not what is the best but what each can do.) What is the practical milling and drilling capacity? What kind of projects have you done with one?  Best regards  Henri from Finland



They are all rather small mills.  In the end what you can do with them is up to you as a machinist.    Your primary concern shouldn't be what others have done but rather sizing the machine for your needs.    Buying a mill that is too small can be extremely frustrating.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 14, 2013)

> They are all rather small mills. In the end what you can do with them is up to you as a machinist. Your primary concern shouldn't be what others have done but rather sizing the machine for your needs. Buying a mill that is too small can be extremely frustrating.



Sherline machine tools  has the slogan think big machine small. Sherline and taig are well made but small . Several members of the internet craftsman museum use sherline . Rudy kouhoupt , Jerry Keifer  and many others I have not met. 
I have a freind that has and uses sherline tools he loves working small and often scales models to fit. 


So if you are building a steam engine to power a steam launch buy machines to fit the project.  if making models  build the model to fit the machine. 

Get
1) what you can afford and include tooling often equal the price of the mill. 

2) what fits in your work space (Bridgeports are great but not in a kitchen ,closet or attic)

3) what you can safely move into your work space. 

Tin


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## Sshire (Nov 14, 2013)

Hi Henri and welcome.

I have been building small engines for a bit less than three years and, until recently, had the Grizzly variant (G0704) of the Weiss BF20. It served me very well and never had any issues with it.  The Vario BF20 is identical .
Agree totally with the comments on round column mills. A neighbor had one and I'd run the other way if I had to use it. 
Pay particular attention to the post about the cost of tooling. A good vise is critical. Then add in end mills, drill bit sets, drill chucks, a set of R8 collets, etc., 
etc. The above must be added to your budgeted amount.
I added a DRO ( which now I can't imagine not having)


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## artist334 (Nov 14, 2013)

Hey

Thanks for all the answers this far. Seems like the SX2 would be the 
choice from those machines. 

For tooling

HSS end mills 4,6,8,10mm (also rounding bits)
Radial Milling Vices 
Tilting vice
Boring head and arbor¨
edge finder 
R8 collet set

Then rotary table later on. I have three and four jaw chuck for it.
Also I have drills, reamers and measurement tools for my lathe already

Is there something I should add to the list? This set was about 1150 euros shipped to Finland.



Tin Falcon said:


> 5) Would you please post an introduction in the welcome area. Tell us about yourself your shop and your interest in model engineering. And kudos for at least telling us what country you are from.
> 
> I will post a introduction soon
> 
> ...


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## rythmnbls (Nov 14, 2013)

The SX2 will handle steel, I've used an X2 on inconel without too much fuss. It's just a matter of good setup, speeds and feeds.

Here's a pic of my X2 slotting a disc of inco.




Good luck with your search.

Steve.


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## mechman48 (Nov 14, 2013)

Hi 
 I have the UK equivalent of the G0704 ... Warco WM16, which so far has proven very capable of doing what I have given it, bearing in mind that I treat it with some respect & don't go tearing off material at stupid speeds & feed rates, remember the adage.. 'slowly slowly catchee monkee'.. in this context I say 'steady steady gets the job done'. As with other comments I'd run a mile from a round column.
 Regards 
 George


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## artist334 (Nov 15, 2013)

Again thanks for all the help you have given=)
So... Situation is this. Arceurotrade does seem to want 
credit card so I must turn to my father:wall: We planned 
that he could order the mill tomorrow. Sx2 with mt3 should be my choice.

I have few more question for you. What vise to get from arceurotrade?¨
Is the tilting one any good for model engineering use?

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Machine-Vices

I am planning to get rotary table on the same order. Does anyone have any
experience with the 4 inch one they offer? 

I will get at least end mills, boring tool, edge finder, few collets, parrel set, rotary table and of course some vice. Is there anything essential or very useful that I should get. 

Henri


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## ShopShoe (Nov 16, 2013)

Get a clamping set: Sometimes you will need to clamp directly to the mill table instead of using the vice. Ditto for the rotary table: Check what size slots that has.

Consider V-blocks for clamping round stock.

Consider a small (very small for a mini-mill) slitting/slotting saw: Buy or make a mandrel for it.

My apologies if this has been covered, but you will find a Dial Test Indicator useful in setting up your mill, squaring the vice to the table travel, etc.

You are off to a good start, best of luck.

--ShopShoe


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## artist334 (Nov 17, 2013)

ShopShoe said:


> Get a clamping set: Sometimes you will need to clamp directly to the mill table instead of using the vice. Ditto for the rotary table: Check what size slots that has.
> 
> Consider V-blocks for clamping round stock.
> 
> ...



 Ok... I placed my order just before your reply. I bought all the tools I mentioned at the last post. v block and slitting saw sure would be useful
 but they must wait for now. I have dial indicator to set up everything. Seems like test indicator would be more useful in many situations. Now week or two of anxious waiting and tracking the shipment. The mill should come just in time for my one week holiday after next week 

 Henri


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