# Boiler Ideas



## rangerssteamtoys (Jun 3, 2008)

This site has some good homemade water tube boilers. Or monotube boilers, same thing. Kinda

http://www.geocities.com/katieanntoo/


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## PTsideshow (Jun 3, 2008)

No they aren't kinda the same. A water tube boiler has a steam space were the steam is collected in a pressure vessel. Because of the steam space or pressure vessel for the storage of steam it requires a license to operate and run the boiler.
A Monotube boiler is a flash boiler, one long tube water comes in the end and steam comes out the other directly into the header or steam piping. No pressure vessel for steam storage. they are all so demand type burners that fire at the rate of steam usage.
glen
1st class license stationary engineer retired
boilers,engines and turbines of unlimited pressure and horsepower


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## Bogstandard (Jun 4, 2008)

Please Glen,

Not quite such a terse reaction, he is a very junior member and requires to be instructed, not told off.

John

City & Guilds Aeronautical Engineering (When it used to mean something, before NVQ)
ONC Aeronautical Engineering (When it meant something)
University of Educational Institutes, two distinctions and a credit, welding technology, theory & practice.(When it was a recognised industry standard)
'Q' Annotation for the inspection, servicing and repair of rotary winged aircraft.(Military only)
And a partridge in a pear tree.(How did that one slip in)
Plus loads of lesser ones.(Now not worth the paper they are printed on)
Forgot to add, B.S. expert, but everyone knows that one.

Most of us have them, but don't need to flaunt it.


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## Cedge (Jun 4, 2008)

Easy guys... we don't need any one getting alphabetic hernias. I'm not a man of letters, but I'm one of the guys that the DARPA and MIT researchers contact when they want practical application ideas for steam technology. Not to shabby for a guy who barely managed a high school diploma and works for a toy company....LOL.

Ranger...
You already know I love your exuberance, however asking questions and seeking advice is a better approach than making bold statements. You're liable to give one of us old guys heart failure with some of the ideas I've seen you chasing...LOL. There are some pretty good hands with boilers on the board, if you take the time and watch for them I'm sure they can point you in a safe direction. No one here wants to see anyone hurt, especially a young fellow like yourself.

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Jun 4, 2008)

Thank you Steve,

For bringing me down off my high horse.

John (C&G, ONC, UoEI(2D&C), 'Q', PIAPT, BS.)


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## Divided He ad (Jun 4, 2008)

As someone who is constantly not sure of what he is on about! Could I make a suggestion to our innovative new friend... Just do what I do if not 100% (most of my life!) sure, put a question mark at the end. 
This lets people know not to tear into you but to take pity and help you understand where you were wrong  
It's worked well so far... I've learnt lots of stuff and only appeared a little dumb :big:

Try it Ranger it might help?


Ralph.


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## PTsideshow (Jun 4, 2008)

I wasn't telling him off. Just stating facts, if he was asking a question it didn't seem like it. 
The biggest problem with the net and forums. 

People don't read the responses to the posted question or statements. And jump right in to the response button
And people at a later date, will jump in and not read all the responses. So they can miss information that can be critical to health and welfare. As steam burns aren't fun, and the rapid expansion of a steam vessel in a catastrophic failure is fast and mostly finial. Whether it is a toy, larger boiler or full size. 

And I totally agree with Dividing Head about some of his previous posts.
John I wasn't telling him off, and to the last line. On other forums I have been jumped on because I didn't state my qualifications for the answer. I didn't realize it came across that way typing.
And as Cedge stated some of the ideas are out there.
glen


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## rangerssteamtoys (Jun 4, 2008)

Ok, Thanks for helping me out. I wasnt too offended :'( 

Alot of people that I have talked to use monotube and water tube boiler terms freely and dont really tell me the diffference. 

So would these boilers be a water tube or monotube? They looks like water tube now, because of the tank that he collects steam in.


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## Bogstandard (Jun 4, 2008)

Glen,

Sorry if I upset you, but this forum is like no other engineering forum on the net.

BS and qualifications on here don't matter one iota, if a person can help, they will help to the best of their ability.

If they get it wrong, someone usually steps in, and politely, and usually with a bit of humour, unless it is a very serious issue, show them the error of their ways.

Maybe not the way to run a supposedly technical site, but it works, people are learning, usually using the most simple and cost effective method, to achieve their goals, without being baffled by technical jargon and machine elitism as on other sites.

A lot of the jetsam and flotsam we get on here are new to the machining game, who have been scorned by their peers on these so called model engineering sites. Which seems to consist of a group of self appointed, so called experts, who force their will on the unsuspecting newbies, and ridicule them in public.

Every single person on here is treated with respect and understanding of their abilities. We can't all be so called experts, that is why this site is so popular.

I am not an expert on everything, and also I have no say in the way the site is run, but everybody should be able to speak their mind. Being straight talking has got me into trouble a few times, but because I am quite willing to accept my mistakes, and make public apologies, I see no reason to stop my candid approach, if it eventually makes the site a place of safety and respect for all members, whether they be newbies or old farts. Enjoyment must surpass production, otherwise why should we do it.

I was already on the way to put him right, but you got in first. No problems with that, and I am sure your input will be greatly appreciated in the future.

John


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## Divided He ad (Jun 4, 2008)

Glen, 

Does that mean you agree with my approach or that I appear a little dumb :big:

I read your description twice to try to soak it up a bit.... I never knew that. Then again I've never put much research into boilers either :-\

Do you know what I like about this forum? ...... EVERYTHING!!!  ;D 


Ralph.


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## mklotz (Jun 4, 2008)

Ralph,

Black on blue is a nice color combination for bruises but in text it's almost unreadable. Can you (and John, too) use a lighter color background on those glowing comments? Us old guys have enough reading problems as is.

 Something like this (orange)
or this (cyan)


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## PTsideshow (Jun 4, 2008)

Divided He ad  said:
			
		

> As someone who is constantly not sure of what he is on about!
> Ralph.


And serious doubt anybody thinks you are dumb


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## Divided He ad (Jun 4, 2008)

Sorry Marv ;D I just figured out how to change it and thought it looked cool  
I have a supposed colour blindness thing going on ... Still see most colours ok though! :-\

Glen, I know I'm not dumb really... I can work out speed, trajectory, time and distance (and I'm sure some other stuff) in a split second, then I can move my hand to meet the ball and also catch it! Now anyone who can do that can't be too dumb eh!? ;D

That said... I still do and probably always will keep asking some odd and sometimes obvious questions  :big: 
I still have so much to learn! (and it is getting harder to retain it all!) 


Ralph.


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## tel (Jun 4, 2008)

Divided He ad  said:
			
		

> Glen, I know I'm not dumb really... I can work out speed, trajectory, time and distance (and I'm sure some other stuff) in a split second, then I can move my hand to meet the ball and also catch it! Now anyone who can do that can't be too dumb eh!? ;D



Ah! But can you rub your belly with t'other hand while doing so?

Tel  BSA, DOM, GOB etc


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## Hilmar (Jun 4, 2008)

So now who is going to answer Rangers second question?
Hilmar


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## tel (Jun 5, 2008)

Bit 'ard to answer really, as there are both water tube and mono on the site. The text does say so tho'.


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## rangerssteamtoys (Jun 5, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> Bit 'ard to answer really, as there are both water tube and mono on the site. The text does say so tho'.



On the site all the boilers have a pipe where the steam collected. Would that make them watertube? monotube?


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## PTsideshow (Jun 5, 2008)

Hilmar  said:
			
		

> So now who is going to answer Rangers second question?
> Hilmar


They are a cross between, or a half breed if you will. They aren't a true
Water tube boiler: water inside the tubes fire/heat outside, with one or more water/mud drums and a steam collection drum. The water walls are used to increase the heating surface area.
Mono tube generally refers to water coming in the tube at one end and steam exiting at the other in to a delivery pipe/header. the length or number of coils, grids or one continuous tube length makes no difference. It is a mono tube, flash boiler As in the Doble-Detroit steam cars. Instant starting if not left cold for to long. Or at least a very fast streamer on start up.
The boilers on his page seem to be a hybrid or bordering on a water tube _if there is steam stored in the drum under pressure._
The old steam car, airplane, boat whether full size or model where mainly contra flow. Water in the top of the boiler and flowing downward towards the burner and steam out to the use. This gives a dry steam.
It should really be called a steam generator rather than a steam boiler, as the water flashes to stem rather than boiling to steam.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1915.msg15316#msg15316
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1915.msg15329#msg15329
Are two very good books on model boiler building and there are a couple more listed in the thread.
http://www.stanleysteamers.com/papers/Besler-aviation.pdf
http://www.firedragon.com/~kap/Barrett/ is the best on steam generators of the mono tube/flash/once thru type.

The books are available on both sides of the pond as they are produced by TEE Publishing
In the US 
http://www.powells.com
http://www.nbbooks.com/
Are two locations the Nation builder has a lot of steam books and other reprints.
Of course Amazon and the other books sites may have them new or used.


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