# Gas line repair (I hope...)



## dgjessing (Jul 13, 2012)

25 some years ago I buried a 1/2" copper pipe from the house to the shop, and used it as a natural gas line for many many years. (Don't worry - only compression fittings above ground, but soldered connections underground...) It's about 30' long. A few years ago I smelled a leak outside when I turned it on in the Fall, and confirmed it was leaking with a pressure test (50 psi would drop to nothing within about half an hour). So anyway I've made do with no gas heat in the shop for the past few years. 

Last month I successfully repaired the leaky fuel tank in my old Nissan pick up with the Eastwood gas tank repair kit (Google it if curious) and that gave me an idea - let's try the same thing with the old gas line! 

I calculated the approx. volume of the line (~2 quarts). Hey - I've got a bit more than half a gallon of waterborne polyurethane varnish left over from re-doing the kitchen floor! So I put lengths of clear vinyl tubing on both ends of the line, filled it up with varnish and let it sit for an hour. I then drained and blew out the excess with compressed air. I figure I need to keep blowing air through it for 24 hours or so, so I fabricated this high-tech device to do that: 







There is a computer fan in the cardboard thing, and it's putting a nice little breeze through the line into the basement. 

I'll do another coat tomorrow, then dry it for several days, then pressure test it again. Wish me luck ;D


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## 1Kenny (Jul 13, 2012)

Kind of like what the new coated lines are made like.

Kenny


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## Maryak (Jul 13, 2012)

Perhaps someone with more knowledge than I would advise but is there a chemical reaction between polyurethane and gas. ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## Ed T (Jul 13, 2012)

While digging up the existing failed line and replacing it with new stuff is a big pain and copper is really expensive, it seems a fair trade-off against the possibility of blowing up your house or your shop or both from a gas leak. Were that to happen the insurance company might take a dim view of this type of repair. You might get lucky and find that some of the newer yellow gas line will fit through the existing line and you could push the new stuff through. I don't even know if "civilians" can buy that stuff or if you have to be licensed to buy it or if the resulting smaller size would support the heater in your shop. Good luck with whatever path you decide on.


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## bearcar1 (Jul 13, 2012)

I would hope that better judgement will prevail here. There are reasons why copper is not used for buried gas line installations, other than the cost. It would serve you better to bite the bullet and do the excavation and install the proper pipe for your furnace. It's only 30', or about three lengths of pipe. The fix that you are attempting here sounds like a band-aid on a heart attack. That resin is not formulated for the extreme conditions that it will be subjected to and will most likely fail in short order, more than likely in the most inopportune time, read middle of winter. Do the heavy lifting now while the weather is still tolerable, if not dry.

BC1
Jim


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## ninefinger (Jul 13, 2012)

I am usually one to take short cuts and look at regulations and building codes etc with an eye to how reasonable they are but playing with natural gas scares me. The potential of a silent accumulation of a large quantity of explosive gas leading to a workshop where sparks are intentionally produced? Doesn't seem like a good idea.

Think about it this way. In 25 years the copper pipe has been corroded enough in at least 1 place to let the gas out. What are the odds that 1 place is the only place, that the corrosion won't continue, that your leaking gas detector (you) picks up on the problem before its a disaster (ie you are home to detect the problem), and your repair will hold?

Put a new line in (the yellow poly type) and it will outlast you in a much safer way...your neighbors will be grateful!


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## doubletop (Jul 14, 2012)

All of the above.

When I first read this earlier today I thought it all sounded a bit dodgy. I'm surprised the copper pipe, having been buried for 25 years, hadn't already contributed to putting the shed into orbit.

Pete


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## ronkh (Jul 14, 2012)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=g...yN0wX_y7yhBw&ved=0CEMQ_AUoAQ&biw=1333&bih=641


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## dgjessing (Jul 14, 2012)

The installation met code originally, _except_ for the soldered joints underground. I worked in the building trades and ran the plan by an architect before putting it in  A quick perusal of the current Ohio code this morning seems like it still does. 

However I am a bit concerned about the possibility of corrosion in the pipe itself. Apparently 25 years is a good long time for any underground pipe installation... I may dig up the short portion that's not under concrete and have a look at it.


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## steamboatmodel (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't know about the Ohio code, but in Ontario you have to be a licenced Gas fitter to do any gas work more complicated than relighting a pilot. The 1/2 pipe may meet the code, but I would like to see where repairing it like you describe meets code.
Regards,
Gerald.


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## dgjessing (Jul 14, 2012)

Did a pressure test this afternoon on the single coat of stuff - it was still leaking. I've now got it filled up again, but this time I have it under pressure with the varnish in place. It's been holding ~50 psi for an hour or so. Presumably, the varnish has been forced out through the leaking spot(s) and it is viscous enough to seal against that pressure. Makes me think the leak is a _tiny_ little weep in one of the soldered joints...

I'm going to leave it under pressure like this till Monday, then drain / blow it out, dry it for several days and test again. 

I appreciate everyone's concerns for my safety, but want to point a few things out. First of all, the line in question is entirely _outside_ - not inside. If it leaks, it's not going to be filling up any enclosed space, but only venting to the great outdoors (and running up my gas bill). I've got a super-sensitive nose for gas perfume, so I'll notice it. Second, I'm not going to be satisfied with it until it can hold 50 psi for a day. That's about 25 times more pressure than the approx. 2 psi working pressure in the system here. Pretty good safety factor if you ask me... 

Copper pipe meets code for direct burial gas lines, and this particular one has worked fine for decades. Thanks for the concern, but I have no intention of blowing anything up


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## steamer (Jul 14, 2012)

Dave....for the record. on behalf of HMEM...get a professional to come out and go through that line and find out what's going on......

Some things aren't worth messing with....gas is one.

Go modern....go gas! go boom!............. 8)

Dave


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## steamboat willie (Jul 21, 2012)

For my money, the repair has all the hallmarks of a desire to become a temporary American. Gas is something that you don't muck about with. If it has corroded in one place it will most certainly be corroded somewhere else. 
The choice I know is yours. I do suspect however, that given the twitchy litigation system in the US you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if a leak caused injury or illness or an ignition caused damage. 
For my money, do it once, do it well, and do it properly.
Steamboat Willie.
PS it will be too far for me to attend any Rememberance Service.


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## Shopguy (Jul 21, 2012)

Kludge fixes of something as potentially dangerous as natural gas is not to be contemplated.  The only safe option is replacement.
Hoping you do the right thing
Ernie J


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## dsquire (Jul 21, 2012)

Hi

If I rember correctly Dave (dgjessing) made a post on the old site about having tries to fix it a 2nd time. It would not hold pressure when he tested it so he said that he was going to dig it up and install new gas line as well as cable and either phone or water. He said he was going for the whole package anyway.

I hope this will ease your minds of some of your concerns. I don't think Dave wants to creat any potential danger zones.

Cheers (smile)

Don


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## dgjessing (Jul 21, 2012)

dsquire said:


> Hi
> 
> If I rember correctly Dave (dgjessing) made a post on the old site about having tries to fix it a 2nd time. It would not hold pressure when he tested it so he said that he was going to dig it up and install new gas line as well as cable and either phone or water. He said he was going for the whole package anyway.
> 
> ...



Yep - and I was just now going to add that back in to this thread (but you beat me to it!). I'm collecting materials and planning the trench digging party - all the beer you can drink as long as you take a turn with a shovel


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## dsquire (Jul 21, 2012)

dgjessing said:


> Yep - and I was just now going to add that back in to this thread (but you beat me to it!). I'm collecting materials and planning the trench digging party - all the beer you can drink as long as you take a turn with a shovel


 
Dave

I would be glad to come and help you. Only problem is I would have to stop with just drinking the beer. Since I am on oxygen picking up a shovel and putting it to work would do me in. I'm OK with the beer as long as I use the regular bottles and not the quarts (Canadian size) and don't get in to much of a hurry. HAha. I can still supervise pretty good though.

Hope all goes well.

Cheers (smile)

Don


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## rake60 (Jul 24, 2012)

Save yourself some beer money!

Ditch Witch:





Local equipment rental places have them.
One buddy to run the Ditch Witch, another friend to help the first lay the
pipe, then the two of them can push the dirt back into the trench.

You just pay the Ditch Witch rental and keep the beer cold! 

Rick


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## Lockstocknbarrel (Jul 25, 2012)

Dave 
Just take care, we need more members not less..........
Sorry just couldn't help myself.
Kindest Regards
Beagles


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## dgjessing (Jul 29, 2012)

Well today was trench party day! One person showed up  But most of the difficult stuff is done, including tunneling under the sidewalk. I can finish up myself tomorrow. Can't believe how much rubble there is buried in my yard  - hunks of concrete, broken bricks, all kinda crap.


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## dgjessing (Aug 1, 2012)

Hey - running water in the shop! It's only a 1/4" line, and there is no drain, but it will be handy for replenishing water bottles, refilling the quenching tank next to the grinder, etc. 

It's also an experiment - it's well above the frost line and terminates in a building that is unheated if not occupied, so (assuming it ever gets cold here again in the winter) it will freeze. It is polyethylene tubing. I've experimented with lengths of the same tubing completely filled with water, the ends capped off, in the freezer; no problem according to my tests. It seems to be able to expand enough to prevent breaking. I'll monitor it carefully when it starts to get cold (of course). 

The gas line held 40 PSI for 24 hours. Haven't hooked up either end yet, but I'm confident that it will be fine.


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## sssfox (Aug 1, 2012)

We had a house built a couple of years ago that had crosslinked poly (PEX) installed for the water lines.  I questioned the builder about freeze problems and he said that PEX could expand so that it didn't rupture if it froze when full of water.

I think you will be safe.


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## Lockstocknbarrel (Aug 10, 2012)

Lockstocknbarrel said:


> Dave
> Just take care, we need more members not less..........
> Sorry just couldn't help myself.
> Kindest Regards
> Beagles



What happened to my cartoon............did the P.C. police step in ??????????
Kindest Regards
Beagles


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## dsquire (Aug 10, 2012)

Lockstocknbarrel said:


> What happened to my cartoon............did the P.C. police step in ??????????
> Kindest Regards
> Beagles



Beagles

I don't know why the cartoon is not showing up. I went back to the original post and checked. When I tried to edit it says that it is there but it doesn't show up. It isn't the PC police, it is the PC gremlins that must be at work. Now I have to try and find out where they hid it. If it doesn't show up in a couple of days, remind me in case I have forgotten.

Cheers 

Don


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## Maryak (Aug 10, 2012)

Is this what you want?


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## dsquire (Aug 10, 2012)

Bob

Yes, that is the one. The problem is though. Why is it not showing up in the original message? At one time it did but not does not show now. I have tried to edit it but can see no reason why it is not showing.

Cheers 

Don


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## Maryak (Aug 10, 2012)

Don,

I too tried to edit the original post. 

It's shown under managed attachments.

For some reason, I can as is obvious access and copy from the information therein but there must be a problem in the format of the URL as far as this forum's software is concerned.

I could not get it to work using the image icon at the top of the page so I uploaded the image to PB and used the image code from there.

Best Regards
Bob


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## dsquire (Aug 11, 2012)

Bob

I am going to try "attaching" the photo in question from my computer to see if it makes any difference.

Ok, It show up OK in the preview so why does it not show up in the Lockstocknbarrel post? Strange.

Cheers 

Don


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## Lockstocknbarrel (Aug 11, 2012)

Thanks Don & Bob,
I for the life of me could not see how it was offensive...................
But Murphy had a hand in it, now it makes sense.
Kindest Regards
Beagles


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## dsquire (Aug 11, 2012)

Maryak said:


> Don,
> 
> I too tried to edit the original post.
> 
> ...



Bob

When you edited the original post at 9:56pm did you make any changes to this post that causes the photo to show or did it just magically appear without explanation? I hate it when things happen without reason.

Cheers 

Don


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## Maryak (Aug 11, 2012)

Well................bugger me I have no idea, as far as I'm aware, I returned the post to "AS ORIGINALLY POSTED" condition so maybe we have a resident Gremlin whom I will call "George" after the one who makes pictures fall of the wall etc. at home.


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## steamboat willie (Aug 12, 2012)

dgjessing,
I too connected my workshop up with a tap and an old laundry tub. Use it for hand washing, quenching etc etc. But the problems with connecting the outfall to the sewer were substantial so I thought that my solution might help you.
 I obtained a plastic drum and placed it under the tub, to collect the waste water. I cut a hole and fitted an outlet at the bottom to which I connected a tap/valve. I connected the other side of the valve to an old discarded swimming pool pump (usually these are free from pool shops when they replace one with a new unit) to which I fitted new sealed bearings (cost me about $10). To the outlet of the pool pump I fitted a normal hose connection. 
When the drum fills up, I connect up the garden hose to the pump outlet, place the other end down the sewer, open the valve and turn the pump on. It empties in no time, and I only need to empty it every 2-3 months. After the drum is empty, I turn off the valve, flush out and disconnect the hose. It is certainly cheaper than cracking into the sewer and digging trenches and the like.
Hope this might help you.
Steamboat Willie.
Canberra, Australia


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## dgjessing (Sep 23, 2012)

We have heat (gas heat) in the shop again! Just finished hooking up both ends and all seems to be well


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## dgjessing (Jan 30, 2013)

dgjessing said:


> Hey - running water in the shop! It's only a 1/4" line, and there is no drain, but it will be handy for replenishing water bottles, refilling the quenching tank next to the grinder, etc.
> 
> It's also an experiment - it's well above the frost line and terminates in a building that is unheated if not occupied, so (assuming it ever gets cold here again in the winter) it will freeze. It is polyethylene tubing. I've experimented with lengths of the same tubing completely filled with water, the ends capped off, in the freezer; no problem according to my tests. It seems to be able to expand enough to prevent breaking. I'll monitor it carefully when it starts to get cold (of course).



To follow up, the water line is holding up just fine so far. The temperature has been as low as 7 degrees f


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