# Quick Change Tool Post



## gus (Dec 8, 2012)

Now building a QCPT from the latest Model Engineers Workshop.I am upgrading from a very primitive version built 12 months ago.
Some expert tips appreciated from the Gurus. Milling the dovetail slots can be scary.


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## gus (Dec 8, 2012)

Sure need a Mechanical Saw to cut this 1 1/2 M.S.Square Bar.
Took 15 mins to hacksaw thru .End cut turned to be quite square.Seen the old hands cutting same in no time and quite effortless too.Gus was wheezing away.


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## dman (Dec 8, 2012)

one of my favorite cutoff tools is a portable band saw. a friend of mine even has one with a stand that can be a chopsaw style or can be put vertical to make contour cuts. it looks to be about 40years old an i dont know who made that particular type but in general portable band saws are great for garages and small shops.


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## n4zou (Dec 8, 2012)

I also use a portable band saw. I had a band saw that could be used vertically or horizontally but it's use was regulated to the shop. Being a hobbyist ready to take advantage of scrap metal the portable band saw is indispensable. It also takes no floor space when it's in it's carrying case on the shelf. I have an inverter that will power my portable band saw from the truck's battery so it's easy to take advantage of cheap or even free scrap metal.


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## gus (Dec 9, 2012)

Clearing shop clutter to put a small band saw. 
Please advise on the Proxxon Band Saw.Is it worth the money spent?
May consider a Taiwanese Band Saw.Bought an industrial version for factory use long ago.Gave me satisfaction.
Will also consider "Made In China". 
Manual hacksaw is good exercise but I don't to waste my valuable time and energy. 69 now and not too much time left.


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## gus (Dec 9, 2012)

Milling male or female dovetails is tedious as the end mill cannot take deeper cuts and manual cannot be heavy to avoid breakage. There must an easier way to remove bulk cuts and finish up with dovetail mill. 
See attached foto. Took just one hour to rough cut two male dovetails.Will finish up with dovetail end mill.


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## dman (Dec 9, 2012)

i never really had to cut dovetails but maybe a vertical band saw would be the best way to rough it in similar to what you did if the dovetail cutter has problems. also it would be best to work with hot-rolled steel or have your metal annealed or normalized then hardened when complete. i'm not sure what the hardness requirements would be or what alloy you are working with though. but maybe you are just not using a dovetail cutter that meets the requirements. 

for example this:






instead of this:






or:






would get the job done without issues.


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 9, 2012)

I too am in the process have been for a while of making four sets of QC  tool posts. I have a aloris and a A2Z. But need more. 
the normal way  on a verticle mill is use a dovtail cutter. 
I would not use a saw. a fly cutter would work. 
I did mine on a shaper did all four blocks in one shot then cut apart. 
As far as a saw. if I was in a cramped I would get a portaband. the milwaukee brand ones are nice and will last a long time the Harbor freight Chinese are cheap. 
If you have a strong bench a saws all will also work. They do shake things up abit if you let the blade bind. 
Also with a saws all easy to change blades and have a blade assortment. 

Tin


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## gus (Dec 9, 2012)

Sorry Guys. Sorry for the messed up.This foto shows one side male dovetail done using slitting saw.
With dovetail rough cut and finished up with dovetail angular mill cutter.Will post next foto tomorrow. Lots of good ideas coming.

Next task would be cutting both male dovetail to same height/depth and width.That uniform dimension. Please advise best method.


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## petertha (Dec 9, 2012)

I'll be very interested to watch your progress. Is the Model Engineer design a piston type locking mechanism? (I think thats what they are called, as opposed to 'wedge').


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## gus (Dec 10, 2012)

petertha said:


> I'll be very interested to watch your progress. Is the Model Engineer design a piston type locking mechanism? (I think thats what they are called, as opposed to 'wedge').




Yes.Its piston & cam lock and dovetail wedged.
Tool post was suppose to be 2" x 2".I goofed using 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 from scrap bin. Should be fine as my existing QCTP used 1 1/2" sq.
Thanks for the flyer.


Gus


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## gus (Dec 10, 2012)

OK Guys. Tool Post Block done.
One Dovetail Cutter busted with too heavy cuts. Fortunately I had a spare to backup. Have to take light cuts to finish up.Both dovetail within +&-0.001". Will make Tool Holders interchangeable. 
See attached.
Next to work on the tool holders which have female dovetails. Now beating my brains for best labour saving and yet procedure to get good dovetail sliding fit.Some manual fitting required.Taking my sweet time.


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## scruffy (Dec 10, 2012)

Looks good Gus I dont even have a machine yet but Ill put this in the memory bankI can see how it could be helpful


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## gus (Dec 10, 2012)

scruffy said:


> Looks good Gus I dont even have a machine yet but Ill put this in the memory bankI can see how it could be helpful



Thanks for the encouragement. 
Where about are you located in Melbourne?  My daughter lives in Glenhuntly.

Does't take a big chunk to buy a small lathe and drill press. I did it bit by bit.


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## scruffy (Dec 10, 2012)

Im in Dandenong not too far from Glenhuntly


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## Antman (Dec 10, 2012)

Myself, I think a shaper is the bee's knees for making dovetails. When I made my (not so )QCTP I decided against dovetails and made a cylindrical toolpost with toolholders clamping around it with a cotter pin, gives a great clamping action. I wish I could post pix.
Ant


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## petertha (Dec 10, 2012)

gus said:


> ...Dovetail Cutter busted with too heavy cuts...


 
I have yet to do dovetails, but its coming one day. When you say 'too heavy', about how much were you advancing the dovetail cutter when bad things happened?


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## gus (Dec 11, 2012)

scruffy said:


> Im in Dandenong not too far from Glenhuntly



Was in Ingersoll-Rand ,Dandenong plant for a short while in the 80s.
Plant is gone.
Took a ride on the Puffing Billy in October 2012. Very educational.So much history.


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## gus (Dec 11, 2012)

Fruits of today's labour.
1. Tool holder. Female dovetail milled.
    As dovetail cutter is too slender.Slotting thru with same cutter will incurr rapid wear. Mill "key-way" slot.Followed by dovetail cutter.Ran cutter at medium speed to cut dovetail slot.Depth of cut must not be too shallow to avoid rubbbing with no real cutting.
    Trial mating of dovetails. Achieved light drive fit. Light push fit achieved with one light cut.
2. Both male dovetails fit tool holder. Manual fitting eventually to slide fit.

Total machine time 3 1/2 hours. See fotos.


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## gus (Dec 11, 2012)

With 6 tool holders to make. Blanks best to skim off with four jaw chuck on the lathe.End Milling takes too 
long with the small vertical mill.By using the lathe to face tool holder blank,mill will be solely used for key
way slots and dovetail slots.This is best work flow. Oh!!! Going back to manufacturing again.
Four more tool holders to manual hacksaw!!!! No worries.My saw skill has improved. Takes only ten minutes now with practice.


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## scruffy (Dec 11, 2012)

My friends dad worked at Ingersoll-Rand at that time Louis he lost a finger. great progress with the tool post


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## gus (Dec 11, 2012)

petertha said:


> I have yet to do dovetails, but its coming one day. When you say 'too heavy', about how much were you advancing the dovetail cutter when bad things happened?



I got greedy when I saw the dovetail cutter to take more hand heavier feed.
I was advancing manual feed a wee bitty to much. It was an old cutter by now a bit too worn out.A heavier 20mm x 60 degree just came in by post today.With
this new cutter,I could finish up job a lot more faster.


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## gus (Dec 12, 2012)

Demolished Brand New 3/8 x 60 degree Dovetail Cutter.Became too ambitious took heavier cuts.
See cutters Eeny   Mini    Moe  lined . Moe is latest 20mm x 60 DoveTail Cutter arrived yesterday.
With 20mm Cutter,I could take heavy cuts with no worries. The 3/8 cutter was too delicate.
Good news.Tool holder no 2 had dovetail slots cut in record time. Was able to mill to size with minimum manual fitting and scraping.  Tool post and tool holders make good "Lego" blocks.


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## gus (Dec 13, 2012)

One Tool Holder done with clamp screws and tool height setting screw.Two holders to go for now.All in will need 5 as full complement required.
Next on the list would be the Cam and Tool Post Clamp Device. The Cam call for push fit. This will a while to figure out and machine.The two more female dovetail grooves were milled thru like a breeze with the bigger 20mm x 60
dovetail end mill which more robust. 3/8 Dovetail EndMill cutter just cannot take up the cutting load.It was sooner or later it will perish.


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## gus (Dec 14, 2012)

OK.Three cutter tool holders made c/w tool height adjusting nut.
Also shown is my poor man's C.I. mark out plate which began life a Ingersoll-Rand compressor valve plate.
The HSS Tool Blanks are Made In China. This the first time I bought Chinese HSS blanks.I plan to free hand grind and using them.The Parting Tool came from LMS and it works well on my Mini Lathe.Comes with side relief.

Hi Guys. Feed back please,on this Chinese HSS blanks.

Next on the list to make the cam lock and cam pistons.Will take another week of sweet time to complete.


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 15, 2012)

Gus: 
I have a variety of HSS tooling. And I have no doubt that the USA Swedish UK steel is superior.  

I have heard many negatives on Chinese HSS. 
IIRC the import ones I buy from enco are from India. but I do have a box of 1/4 Chinese blanks that I have ground and used. They work fine on aluminum and brass. and probably ok on 12L14 steel. 

My Chinese insert tools are junk I have set them aside(Horible Fright Brand) 
I will say if you can afford the tools the AR Warner tools from Latrobe PA are fantastic.

http://www.arwarnerco.com/c-12-turning.aspx I have talked to the owner several times. I have 3 of his sets and I have yet to need to replace an insert. 

part of cutting tool performance is the metallurgy you can not get away from that.

part of it is how the tool is sharpened. if you overheat the tool you can reduce performance. Tool geometry is important. every material has a best set of angles. the better the grind the better the performance. hone the tool. it helps a lot. 
Speeds and feeds drastically effect tool life. Use the correct ones for the job. 

Tin


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## gus (Dec 15, 2012)

Bought some Taiwanese Endmills which seem to stand up better than the Chinese ones.
The Japanese EndMills cost a bomb but they stood well.The Chinese endmills are OK for aluminium.
Today the nuts and bolts vendor gave me F.O.C. some 4mm  6mm 8mm 10mm 12mmSolid Carbide EndMills and they were made In USA by Menlo Tool Co.,Warren,Mi.I am puzzled why metric.
These EndMills are very expensive.


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## gus (Dec 16, 2012)

Tool Post Block port holes drilled,bored and reamed to take Cam Lock Pistons.Cam pistons fitted with to "O" rings to act as low height springs just like the polymer springs we used for press tools to eject stampings.
Parting of completed pistons from stock bar was made easy with 1/16 w 2 " parting bit from LMS with DIY holder.
Tool height must be set slight below centre to cut properly. Using Tapmatic Tapping Oil makes parting very smooth and chips eject easily to avoid seizing and tool breakage.The old fashion Eclipse Parting tool lose out in performance.

Just discovered you could use twist drill to centre job in four jaw chuck to bore pot holes.The scribed circle line was too faint to see. Centering use scriber block very tough. Over the next two days will complete QCTP.


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## gus (Dec 18, 2012)

QCTP almost done except for the cam and final fitting up.
Passed by a specialist bolt and nut shop,could not rest buying the red plastic balls for the handle bar.For now same seems bigger than required.But will ergonomic to Gus.
See foto. Been a great day with no goofs.The weather was cooler than usual.That is not hot.Took freqent breaks.To rest the mind and reminding myself why rush and mess up.
As usual I did not follow the QCTP drawing and took some short cuts .
Quite happy I did.


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## gus (Dec 19, 2012)

First time in 50 years I use a dial gage to center a job piece in a four jaw chuck.Bought China made Magnetic Stand and Dial Gage from Victoria Market,Melbourne,Australia. Surprising cheaper than buy in Singapore.
Centered the raw cam piece and offset to 0.050" to cut cam.
Assembled QCTP c/w handle bars and knobs. 
QCTP completed to complement the existing.Come tomorrow,will use this new QCTP.
Saved US$150 DIY my QCTP using surplus stock bars. US$200 in total saved.
Switching new cutters will be a breeze w/o having to look for misplace
Allen Key.Tool height setting also made easy.


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## gus (Dec 20, 2012)

OK. 
QCTP completed and fine tuned with test cuts taken using 5/16 Chinese HSS tool bits.Tool holder changes made easy to remove , slot in and lock.
Cam lock worked fine with two tool holders.One holder needs repairs to fit in. Another three more tool holders to make to complete complement.
Tomorrow will use QCTP to make new hose barb fitting for air cleaning gun.
Fellow Forum Menbers .Thanks for the encouragements and support given.This is the last job for 2012.


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## starnovice (Dec 20, 2012)

Well done Gus, now you can go fishing 

Pat


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## gus (Dec 20, 2012)

starnovice said:


> Well done Gus, now you can go fishing
> 
> Pat



Hi Pat,

Fishing been very bad with too much NE Monsoon rain.The Straits of Singapore gets more its fair share of rain water from West Malaysia Main land.
Monsoon been late.
If one loves to eat Marine Catfish then it harvest time. We landed three  5 kg
Cats. GAve away to the Malay boatman.You see the smile on his face."Tonite we have Catfish cooked in Hot Sweet Sour Curry.

If it doesn't rain today/tonite/tomorrow early morning,we'll have good harvest of Snappers 1-----2kg size.The best eating is 1kg and below.

Come Feb 2013 will going for Dogtooth Tunas in Burma!!!!.

Gus


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## gus (Dec 21, 2012)

Tin Falcon said:


> Gus:
> I have a variety of HSS tooling. And I have no doubt that the USA Swedish UK steel is superior.
> 
> I have heard many negatives on Chinese HSS.
> ...



Hi Tin Falcon,
Your expert advice is seeked.
By dipping hot HSS tool bit into ice water,I could quickly cool down same to continue free hand grinding.My concern is the tips gone blue n brown. Does this in any way change the tool performance. See fotos.
Took test cuts with all three tool bits. As for the HSS free hand grinding was taught by a very pro-active machineshop instructor. His advice on the blue tool tips was "no worries".He taught me free hand twist drill grinding too.

 Singapore never really had an strong manufacturing base in the 40s 50s 60s 70s. We took off in the 80s 90s.Today we are known for precision industries after Japan,Taiwan and South Korea.


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## lensman57 (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi Gus,

It is better if they didn't change color but provided the steel is a good one a bit of discoloration should not do them any harm, hope you didn't mind me replying. I use a belt sander in preference to a grinder and I find that it works cooler and I don't need to quench the tool so often. And well done with the tool post, looks very good.

Regards,

A.G


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## gus (Dec 21, 2012)

lensman57 said:


> Hi Gus,
> 
> It is better if they didn't change color but provided the steel is a good one a bit of discoloration should not do them any harm, hope you didn't mind me replying. I use a belt sander in preference to a grinder and I find that it works cooler and I don't need to quench the tool so often. And well done with the tool post, looks very good.
> 
> ...



Your kind advice well given and will be well taken. I guess way back in 1961,all the HSS tool bits were USA or UK made. And hence slight discoloration was not a big problem. With Chinese HSS tool Steel there may be some doubts.Will try out. Resharpening will not be as harsh.

Bought some Ground HSS bits from LittlemachineShop and they had no discoloration. Had there been,you bet it will return goods.

The QCTP now on my Nbook desk. Change tool holders now a breeze.
The Red Knobs add color and comfort when hand tightening.
Will do housekkeeping before year ends.


Merry Christmas!!!!


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## Tin Falcon (Dec 21, 2012)

I agree better if there is no discoloration. one should never wear gloves when free hand grinding. Two reasons : 1 it is dangerous the glove could catch and drag in the hand. 20 you want to feel the temperature of the bit if it gets warm cool it. there is no need for blue tipped tooling. 
one of the attributes of better  HSS steel typical higher cobalt content is red hardness. This is the ability for a tool to keep an edge if the edge heats to red. 
so in theory  a little color on the tool from grinding or gutting will not effect it. But IMHO a cool tool is a happy tool. 
Tin


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