# Time to buy a lathe and mill.



## Rob_B (Dec 25, 2013)

I have been looking around here for some time now and I'm ready to get my first lathe and mill.

They will be used for model engines ofcource and maybe some other small parts and tool mods.
I have been reading many posts here and on the internet and looked at what I can buy here.

At the moment I think I will get a Sieg SC2 350 and a SX2P.

The options on lathes is limited, so I feel that the SC2 is the right lathe for me.

The choice between mills is much bigger with plenty of different versions.
The SX2P looks like the most interesting version for me with the brushless motor, belt drive, solid column, bigger table and more travel on all axis. 

Would I be better of with the solid column or is the tilting column a useful option after all?

One thing I see on the specs of the Sieg mills is "throat" The X2 and SX2 all have a throat of 167 mm. What is the throat of a mill?

One of the reasons to go for the Sieg machines is because I will use them in the attic. I have plenty of room there, but limited acces to get big things up there. So the machines can't be to large or heavy.

Does anyone have any reason not to buy these or know things I may have forgotten or need to look for?
I know it all depends on what I want to use it for and what I may expect from the machines. But as these are my first lathe and mill I ask anyway. 

Thanks.

Rob.


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## Wizard69 (Dec 26, 2013)

I have some suggestions or maybe better comments for you to consider.   
1.   Buy enough machine!    The struggle to get them in place is a one time event, don't let that stop you from getting a machine of suitable size.  
2.    Figuring out what is a suitable size for your interests isn't easy.    So consider carefully where your interests lay.  
3.    If buying both machines at once forces you to compromise on both machines then don't do it.   A huge amount of machining can be done on a lathe to get you started.  
4.    The cost of the machine is about half the expense of bringing it up to usable standards.  Tooling will cost you money.  




Rob_B said:


> I have been looking around here for some time now and I'm ready to get my first lathe and mill.
> 
> They will be used for model engines ofcource and maybe some other small parts and tool mods.


Think carefully here about what you are interested in.   Model engines for example come in a huge array of designs and sizes. 


> I have been reading many posts here and on the internet and looked at what I can buy here.
> 
> At the moment I think I will get a Sieg SC2 350 and a SX2P.


Unfortunately I don't know what that lathe is.   


> The options on lathes is limited, so I feel that the SC2 is the right lathe for me.


I'm not sure why you are saying this, there are a lot of lathe options out there.   The worst part about a lathe is that most of the mass is in one part thus moving it around is often a major adventure.  


> The choice between mills is much bigger with plenty of different versions.
> The SX2P looks like the most interesting version for me with the brushless motor, belt drive, solid column, bigger table and more travel on all axis.
> 
> Would I be better of with the solid column or is the tilting column a useful option after all?


In my opinion the tilting column on the Machines with it is a joke.  The hinge is so flimsy the machine can barely drill large diameter holes in steel without very noticeable column deflection.   If you go SX2 make sure it is the improved "solid" column model.  


> One thing I see on the specs of the Sieg mills is "throat" The X2 and SX2 all have a throat of 167 mm. What is the throat of a mill?
> 
> One of the reasons to go for the Sieg machines is because I will use them in the attic. I have plenty of room there, but limited acces to get big things up there. So the machines can't be to large or heavy.


Consider this, mills can easily be broken down into parts easy to handle.  Since a tear down and cleaning are recommended this can be part of your start up procedure. I would not dismiss a larger mill due to the effort to move it in place.   A lathe is a different story, but again you should only need to do this once.   


> Does anyone have any reason not to buy these or know things I may have forgotten or need to look for?


Number one would be to check the load rating of the attic floor, especially if this is an older house.  It probably isn't a problem but some houses have far better construction than others.  

Tooling I mentioned above, if you have nothing it will be a big expense.   

Machine tools spit out a lot of chips and fluids which can get all over.   Chips you sweep up, fluids though can seep into place you don't want it to go.   So you may need enclosures or other swarf control measures.  

Make sure you have suitable power in the attic.   Make sure power and lighting are on separate circuits.  

Speaking of lighting nothing proves the importance of good lighting like trying to operate a machine tool or do layout work.   If lighting is marginal in the attic plan on remediation of some sort.   


> I know it all depends on what I want to use it for and what I may expect from the machines. But as these are my first lathe and mill I ask anyway.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Rob.




If you don't have a strong interest in any one type of engine or model size assume your interests will change over time.  This leads to a suggestion that you lean towards larger machines.   Speaking of machines you will need to buy or make machines beyond the mill and lathe.   A grinder is a requirement to start and a 1" or so belt grinder serves its own purpose.    These can be DIY projects that would put your lathe to use.   There are a bunch of other things needed in the shop that people normally make.   In the end you may spend a couple of months just making things.  


By the way asking is always a good thing.   The problem is answering isn't always easy.


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## Omnimill (Dec 26, 2013)

Wizard has it covered. The Lathe looks ok but I would go for something a bit more solid for the Mill. As said, tilting columns are a bad idea! The SX3 may be a better bet if you can run to it.

http://www.siegind.com/products_det...=comp-FrontProducts_list01-1325833166395.html


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## Rob_B (Dec 26, 2013)

Wizard69 said:


> I have some suggestions or maybe better comments for you to consider.
> 1. Buy enough machine! The struggle to get them in place is a one time event, don't let that stop you from getting a machine of suitable size.
> 2. Figuring out what is a suitable size for your interests isn't easy. So consider carefully where your interests lay.
> 3. If buying both machines at once forces you to compromise on both machines then don't do it. A huge amount of machining can be done on a lathe to get you started.
> ...





Wizard69 said:


> Unfortunately I don't know what that lathe is.


The SC2 is an upgrade of the C2 Mini Lathe. It has, just like the SX2 mill, a brushless motor and less gears to get the same speed an more power. And there is a 

version with 350 mm instead of 300 mm between centers.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_lathe/reviews/sieg_sc2/sc2.htm



Wizard69 said:


> I'm not sure why you are saying this, there are a lot of lathe options out there. The worst part about a lathe is that most of the mass is in one part thus moving it around is often a major adventure.


That maybe have come out wrong. 
What I mean is that in the size, weight and price class that I'm looking at at the moment there are just a few. When I want to go one step up, it is a big step in price without getting a whole lot more.



Wizard69 said:


> In my opinion the tilting column on the Machines with it is a joke. The hinge is so flimsy the machine can barely drill large diameter holes in steel without very noticeable column deflection. If you go SX2 make sure it is the improved "solid" column model.


That is what I thought and why I like the SX2P. That one has the fixed column.



Wizard69 said:


> Consider this, mills can easily be broken down into parts easy to handle. Since a tear down and cleaning are recommended this can be part of your start up procedure. I would not dismiss a larger mill due to the effort to move it in place. A lathe is a different story, but again you should only need to do this once.


I had figured that already. As I have to break them down to clean, I can do that downstairs and take it up in parts.



Wizard69 said:


> Number one would be to check the load rating of the attic floor, especially if this is an older house. It probably isn't a problem but some houses have far better construction than others.


All floors are reinforced concrete, so no problems there.



Wizard69 said:


> Tooling I mentioned above, if you have nothing it will be a big expense.


Yeah, I have noticed that. That is also a reason to not go over the top with the machines.



Wizard69 said:


> Machine tools spit out a lot of chips and fluids which can get all over. Chips you sweep up, fluids though can seep into place you don't want it to go. So you may need enclosures or other swarf control measures.


I have seen that in my friends shop. That is why I want them in the attic. There is plenty of space there to make a seperate room.



Wizard69 said:


> Make sure you have suitable power in the attic. Make sure power and lighting are on separate circuits.
> 
> Speaking of lighting nothing proves the importance of good lighting like trying to operate a machine tool or do layout work. If lighting is marginal in the attic plan
> 
> on remediation of some sort.


Power is available, but lighting has to be improved.




Wizard69 said:


> If you don't have a strong interest in any one type of engine or model size assume your interests will change over time. This leads to a suggestion that you lean towards larger machines.


I really like the small IC engines. Like the tiny 4 inline and the small V8's
I'm not going to build 1/2 scale engines.



Wizard69 said:


> Speaking of machines you will need to buy or make machines beyond the mill and lathe. A grinder is a requirement to start and a 1" or so belt grinder serves its own purpose. These can be DIY projects that would put your lathe to use. There are a bunch of other things needed in the shop that people normally make. In the end you may spend a couple of months just making things.


I have some of those tools already, other I will have to get/make too.



Wizard69 said:


> By the way asking is always a good thing. The problem is answering isn't always easy.


You did a good job.  Thanks for that. It gave me a few things to think about.


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## Rob_B (Dec 26, 2013)

Omnimill said:


> Wizard has it covered. The Lathe looks ok but I would go for something a bit more solid for the Mill. As said, tilting columns are a bad idea! The SX3 may be a better bet if you can run to it.
> 
> http://www.siegind.com/products_det...=comp-FrontProducts_list01-1325833166395.html


The SX2P doesn't have the tilting column, but a fixed one.
Wouldn't that make it rigid enough?


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## Omnimill (Dec 26, 2013)

Rob_B said:


> The SX2P doesn't have the tilting column, but a fixed one.
> Wouldn't that make it rigid enough?



It would be more rigid than the tilting version. I was just trying to make the point that the bigger the better when it comes to milling machines, notwithstanding what you can afford or have space for!


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## Sshire (Dec 26, 2013)

Not to jump ahead to your second mill, but...
My first mill was a BF20 (same as Grizzly G0704 and many others). Luckily, (for me) the spindle was R8. While I had the BF20, I gradually added tooling.
When I moved on to my current mill (Bridgeport) all of my tooling fit. Collets, chucks, face mill, etc, etc.
That was a huge savings.
Just a thought.


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## Wizard69 (Dec 26, 2013)

Rob_B said:


> The SC2 is an upgrade of the C2 Mini Lathe. It has, just like the SX2 mill, a brushless motor and less gears to get the same speed an more power. And there is a


You need to be careful here on these small machines, with their small motors, getting the right power at low speed is a problem.   Gears or belt reductions are not a bad thing in this regard.   This is especially the case on a lathe as there are many instance where running at very low spindle speeds is advised.  


> version with 350 mm instead of 300 mm between centers.
> http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_lathe/reviews/sieg_sc2/sc2.htm
> 
> 
> ...


Usually the weight goes up real fast too!   

The problem I see is the distance between centers can be a big problem on these smaller lathes.    By the time you mount a chuck, mount the work piece in the chuck and then the tooling on the cross slide you may run out of space.     So you need to consider real carefully if the lathe is "big enough".  On the flip side swing is important too so you need to ask yourself If the lathe will be able to safely chuck the parts you wish to work on.   

You can probably get buy with a smallish lathe considering your interests mentioned earlier. I'm just not sure you will have enough distance between centers for the stuff you mentioned earlier.   For example let's say that V-8 has a 25 mm bore, maybe 35 mm between centers for each bore.  Given that you could see that a minimal came shaft length would be 140mm but most likely longer to fix gears and such.  A cranks shaft will easily be longer than that so let's say 240mm.   These are just wild numbers here trying to make a point.  

In any event you should see that the lathes you have in mind are a little short.   If you want to use a live center you might have issues.   So if V-8s are a big interest you really should look into the plans associated with the models you are interested in and find out just how much distance between centers you need.   While you are at it determine the swing required over the cross slide to turn a crankshaft.    You need to make yourself comfortable with the idea that the lathe is big enough.  


> That is what I thought and why I like the SX2P. That one has the fixed column.


It is still a smallish mill.  It is certainly good enough for many, but you will also find comments by people wishing they went a bit bigger.  


> I had figured that already. As I have to break them down to clean, I can do that downstairs and take it up in parts.
> 
> 
> All floors are reinforced concrete, so no problems there.


A concrete floor in the attic?   That must be some house.   Even so concrete floors have a load rating as such it is worth checking out.  


> Yeah, I have noticed that. That is also a reason to not go over the top with the machines.


Yes it is an issue of finding balance.   In my case I simply have put off acquiring tools until funds can be built up.   That and I keep an eye on auctions.  


> I have seen that in my friends shop. That is why I want them in the attic. There is plenty of space there to make a seperate room.
> 
> 
> Power is available, but lighting has to be improved.


I mentioned that because my shop is in the cellar and man it was dark down there with 4 60 watt bulbs.   It cost a bit of money but I put in several T8 light fixtures and then wasn't happy with that and did half of it all over again adding more fixtures.  Even then I still have some machines with their own lamp fixtures.    This isn't a trivial expense so planning makes sense.  


> I really like the small IC engines. Like the tiny 4 inline and the small V8's
> I'm not going to build 1/2 scale engines.


If you want to go the V8 route my feeling right at the moment is that you would want a bigger mill than an SX2.   Even a table that is a few inches larger will make setup of larger parts far easier.   Not to be unmentioned but you will likely have to make some fixtures.  


> I have some of those tools already, other I will have to get/make too.


It does add to cost even if you DIY.  


> You did a good job.  Thanks for that. It gave me a few things to think about.


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## Till (Dec 26, 2013)

You have disassemble these machines prior to use, because there's casting sand and grinding dust residue in the headstock, in the gearbox, under the carriage and in the lubrication grooves of the ways.


 So weight isn't a problem, it'll be in handy parts. You'll have to buy some measuring equipment anyway. Same with learning how to set up the machine correctly and how to use (low price?) measuring equipment.


 Smaller machine = cheaper machine = smaller margin = lower quality.  
 When really close to the edge, there are really stupid decisions to be made regarding engineering and quality of the product, because you urgently have to cut costs in the 1/100 cent range.


 I'd buy the biggest machine I could handle in parts.


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## Rob_B (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks all. Lots of info to think about.

Looking at the real engine size and deviding by 4, adding chuck thinkness, live center and some extra room to set it up on the lathe, the 350 mm between centers may be on the low side.

And I thought I had figured it out by now.


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## mikbul (Dec 30, 2013)

Rob_B said:


> I have been looking around here for some time now and I'm ready to get my first lathe and mill.
> 
> They will be used for model engines ofcource and maybe some other small parts and tool mods.
> I have been reading many posts here and on the internet and looked at what I can buy here.
> ...



Have you looked at Little Machine Shops version of the SEIG mill with the solid column, they also have a mini mill. Also I had a Micromark 7X16 version of the Seig lathe and it was a great deal. Ships in two boxes by UPS to your door, less cosmoline to clean, true inch dials, cam lock tailstock, 500 watt brushless motor.


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## mikbul (Dec 30, 2013)

Forgot to mention, with the micromark 7X16 I purchased the tools from Little Machine Shop. The premium package has everything in it, four 3/8' -1/2" tool holders, three indexable tools, (left, right, threading) quick change tool post in OXA size, boring bar, parting tool and holder, 1/2" drill chuck and arbor, four center drills, and extra carbide insert. I'm still using that OXA tool post on my South Bend SB1001. I believe the price was $279.00.


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## Teus (Dec 31, 2013)

Rob,

Did you have a look at "Marktplaats.nl"

There are some very nice Emco 8 and 5 offered like this one: http://link.marktplaats.nl/761139526

Or this one: http://link.marktplaats.nl/761272315

Or this one: http://link.marktplaats.nl/758905885

And a lot more if you do a search on Draaibank at Marktplaats


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## Rob_B (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the replies.
I haven't decided what to get yet. It is a new hobby, so maybe I will start small and work my way up if I really like it.
Or start with some bigger machines (some thing like a 8.5x16 lathe and bf20 mill)

@Mikbul. Those are close to what I wanted to get from Sieg. I have a small problem with the Littlemachineshop. I'm in Europe and they don't ship outside the US and Canada. Even if they did, shipping and taxes would make it more expensive that getting some thing similar over here. 

@Teus. I started at Marktplaats. But with the little I know about these machines, I'm not sure if I want to get some thing used.

But I have more to think about again.


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## lohring (Dec 31, 2013)

Don't forget to consider used machines.  They often cost less than new small lathes and mills, come with tooling, and are much more capable.  Larger used machines cost more to move in and set up, but if you have the room they are worth it.  A 10 to 14 inch swing lathe and Bridgeport size mill are what I'm talking about.  As another poster pointed out, this Monarch lathe is much more capable for the price than any new small machine.

Lohring Miller


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## Bob_P (Dec 31, 2013)

Hi Rob
I have a SC4 lathe and an SX2 mill with a larger table and fixed column. Had these for a couple of years plus now. Really pleased with both of these and have made several mods to the mill, gas spring, DROs and a power feed. If I had to work with the same budget and space constraints I would buy the same again if that's any recommendation. I would however advise to consider what you plan to build with them. I planned to build small engines and models, but interests changed/developed and  I would have been really restricted if I had bought a smaller lathe.
Regards happy new year to you.
Bob..


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## Walltoddj (Dec 31, 2013)

All the reply's I see are great get the biggest you can afford because as most you will out grow it and wish you had gotten a big machine. I learned on a 6 x 24 mill and a 36" x 60" lathe that had a flat belt and a truck trany to change gears  but it was great way to learn. Now I've a 9"x42", 9"x49" Bridgeport, a Reid 6"x 12" Surface grinder, a Brown & Sharpe 6"x18" full hyd, a DoAll 13"x60" Lathe and a Harbor Freight 7"x10" Mini Lathe. I still find it hard to fit some jobs on those machines but it's a lot easier to do most of what I like to on them. Good luck and I hope you can find what suits you and your needs.


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## Rob_B (Jan 1, 2014)

Bob_P said:


> Hi Rob
> I have a SC4 lathe ..............I planned to build small engines and models, but interests changed/developed and  I would have been really restricted if I had bought a smaller lathe.


Bob, what version of the SC4 do you own? I see there are two versions, 410 mm and 510 mm.


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## bazmak (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi,i would recommend sieg sc3 (micromark 7x16) read my thread bazmak
I have gone in great detail on pros and cons and lots of Mods
I have really enjoyed owning this lathe.Regards Bazmak


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## Bob_P (Jan 2, 2014)

Rob
Mine is the 410
Bob..


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## barnesrickw (Jan 2, 2014)

I am by no means an expert, but I bought a Taig as my first metal lathe.  It fits into my space and budget requirements, and t was no big problem to get it to my shop.  I'm looking forward to gaining more skill, and eventually buying a taig mill.  For what I intend to do, it suits me fine.


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## Rob_B (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks all.

Bob, that 410 mm isn't that much longer than the 350 mm of the lathe I was looking at. But 60 mm is a lot of you need it to finish a project. 
But lenght isn't every thing. The SC4 is much more lathe compared to the SC2.

Still not sure what way to go from here. 
I hope I have some time next week to go by a store that has some of the lathes that I'm interested in.


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## mikbul (Jan 5, 2014)

@Mikbul. Those are close to what I wanted to get from Sieg. I have a small problem with the Littlemachineshop. I'm in Europe and they don't ship outside the US and Canada. Even if they did, shipping and taxes would make it more expensive that getting some thing similar over here. 



But I have more to think about again. [/QUOTE]

 Sorry, I failed to notice your location on the planet


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## AnvilJack (Jan 7, 2014)

First, I'm glad you're taking the time to chew it all over.  

Second, I would encourage you to buy just one, a lathe, or a mill.  The learning curve is engaging, but still real, for you must work for precision.  The tooling costs are equally real, and probably more diverse tools than you have realised are needed.  This is presumptuous of me, I know, but you will quickly need a bunch of things, if you aim to learn to hit the mark, every time.  Quality measuring tools are expensive, for one. Even the cost of stock can be surprising. And marking out a casting, for example, for machining is often a real challenge.

Third, I had a mini lathe, an Emco Compact 5, 350mm between centres.  Way too small.  My answer to this issue: I suggest to people that they buy an industrial bench machine.  Consequently, I now have a Chinese made mill-drill (dovetail column) and a 550 mm between centres lathe, also no-name.

For the mill, a table with 4 16mm T-slots and a weight of some 300 kg indicates that you are getting into the hitting zone, I think. (I use the mill 80% of the time.)

If you get a mill first, get a rotary table (with kit for dividing) as soon as you can: you can do a lot from here. (Use You Tube for info: not many good books around: tons of good lathe books, though).

Finally, from me, what support do you have? Who can you turn to, a mill guru, or a lathe guru?  Support from someone who can show you is important, and I encourage you to think about this.


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## Wizard69 (Jan 7, 2014)

You have some real good points here.  




AnvilJack said:


> First, I'm glad you're taking the time to chew it all over.
> 
> Second, I would encourage you to buy just one, a lathe, or a mill.  The learning curve is engaging, but still real, for you must work for precision.


It isn't just precision it is also learning techniques.   I'm talking everything from grinding a tool to setting up an operation.  


> The tooling costs are equally real, and probably more diverse tools than you have realised are needed.  This is presumptuous of me, I know, but you will quickly need a bunch of things, if you aim to learn to hit the mark, every time.  Quality measuring tools are expensive, for one.


Tooling is a killer!   Of course some guys start out with more than others but starting up a shop can result in significant hand tool costs.   


> Even the cost of stock can be surprising. And marking out a casting, for example, for machining is often a real challenge.
> 
> Third, I had a mini lathe, an Emco Compact 5, 350mm between centres.  Way too small.  My answer to this issue: I suggest to people that they buy an industrial bench machine.  Consequently, I now have a Chinese made mill-drill (dovetail column) and a 550 mm between centres lathe, also no-name.
> 
> For the mill, a table with 4 16mm T-slots and a weight of some 300 kg indicates that you are getting into the hitting zone, I think. (I use the mill 80% of the time.)


Selecting between a mill and a lathe as the first purchase is difficult for some but I tend to suggest going for a lathe first.    There is a lot to learn for one.  Realistically though you can't start out with a mill as some key parts require a lathe.   A lathe will get you started with simple engines. 


> If you get a mill first, get a rotary table (with kit for dividing) as soon as you can: you can do a lot from here. (Use You Tube for info: not many good books around: tons of good lathe books, though).


The problem here is that I don't really see a mill as a first purchase machine as most engines have many parts requiring turning.  

One thing to consider is CNC as a way of reducing the cost of iron in a shop.   CNC can reduce the need for a rotary table and a lot of other hardware.    Now computer control isn't the answer to every problem but it can be a smart move for some users.  I know some forum members don't like CNC but it really is just another way to accomplish a goal.   


> Finally, from me, what support do you have? Who can you turn to, a mill guru, or a lathe guru?  Support from someone who can show you is important, and I encourage you to think about this.




Well there are the people here.   You are right of course a guru or simply somebody with experience can make a huge difference when it comes to grasping concepts.   

It probably would have been easier for me to simply say everything above.


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## Rob_B (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.



AnvilJack said:


> First, I'm glad you're taking the time to chew it all over.


I'm not always like that.  But this is going to cost a lot of money and I don't want to screw it up before I even got started. 



AnvilJack said:


> The tooling costs are equally real, and probably more diverse tools than you have realised are needed.  This is presumptuous of me, I know, but you will quickly need a bunch of things, if you aim to learn to hit the mark, every time.  Quality measuring tools are expensive, for one. Even the cost of stock can be surprising. And marking out a casting, for example, for machining is often a real challenge.





Wizard69 said:


> It isn't just precision it is also learning techniques.   I'm talking  everything from grinding a tool to setting up an operation.
> 
> Tooling is a killer!   Of course some guys start out with more than  others but starting up a shop can result in significant hand tool costs.


I had noticed how quickly it all adds up. First I looked at the cheap stuff. And after reading more about it I soon figured that wasn't going to work. And the better quality tools almost equal the cost of the machines it self.

And learning techniques should be part of the fun. Atleast that is what i'm going for.
It is about 30 years ago that I used a lathe and mill so it will take some to get back into it for sure.



AnvilJack said:


> Second, I would encourage you to buy just one, a lathe, or a mill.  The    learning curve is engaging, but still real, for you must work for    precision.





Wizard69 said:


> Selecting between a mill and a lathe as the first purchase is difficult  for some but I tend to suggest going for a lathe first.    There is a  lot to learn for one.  Realistically though you can't start out with a  mill as some key parts require a lathe.   A lathe will get you started  with simple engines.


I would start with a lathe, but getting both at the same time could help making a better deal.

I think I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't last long with just a lathe. Within a few months I would want a mill too.



AnvilJack said:


> Third, I had a mini lathe, an Emco Compact 5, 350mm between centres.  Way too small.  My answer to this issue: I suggest to people that they buy an industrial bench machine.  Consequently, I now have a Chinese made mill-drill (dovetail column) and a 550 mm between centres lathe, also no-name.


I have read this in other threads too. Is the 350 mm between centers really "way to small" ? I have been looking at many build threads for small V8's and what I can find about crankshaft lenght doesn't exceed that. I haven't found or bought any V8 plans yet.

And if I want to go for a bigger lathe it will be a big step. The next step is 400mm/16inch and I think that is to close to the 350mm. So the next one up is 500mm/20inch and that comes as a 9x20. 


AnvilJack said:


> For the mill, a table with 4 16mm T-slots and a weight of some 300 kg indicates that you are getting into the hitting zone, I think. (I use the mill 80% of the time.)
> 
> If you get a mill first, get a rotary table (with kit for dividing) as soon as you can: you can do a lot from here. (Use You Tube for info: not many good books around: tons of good lathe books, though).


That mill is way to heavy for me to get in the attic. Even if I take it apart it will be a real struggle.

The rotary table is already on the shopping list. 



AnvilJack said:


> Finally, from me, what support do you have? Who can you turn to, a mill guru, or a lathe guru?  Support from someone who can show you is important, and I encourage you to think about this.





Wizard69 said:


> Well there are the people here.   You are right of course a guru or  simply somebody with experience can make a huge difference when it comes  to grasping concepts.


Ofcourse I'm counting on people here. 

And I have a friend with some 40 years experience in metalworking.


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## Walltoddj (Jan 8, 2014)

Your right about buying both for a better deal. My first set was a Bridgeport 9x49 Mill and a Brown & Sharpe 618 surface grinder for $4700 delivered. The second was a Bridgeport 9x42, 7x10 Bandsaw, Reid 6x12 surface Grinder, and my DoAll 13x60 Lahte for $7600 delivered from RI. You just have to keep looking and things turn up.

Todd


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## Wizard69 (Jan 8, 2014)

Rob_B said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> 
> I'm not always like that.  But this is going to cost a lot of money and I don't want to screw it up before I even got started.


You will have to accept some mistakes along the way.  


> I had noticed how quickly it all adds up. First I looked at the cheap stuff. And after reading more about it I soon figured that wasn't going to work. And the better quality tools almost equal the cost of the machines it self.


It is tough at times because you have to be fairly wealthy to buy everything at once.   Do realize though that not all imported stuff is crap, sometimes the frequency of use doesn't justify top grade hardware/tools.  


> And learning techniques should be part of the fun. Atleast that is what i'm going for.
> It is about 30 years ago that I used a lathe and mill so it will take some to get back into it for sure.
> 
> 
> ...


There is no guarantee there.    If you are buying new I don't see a huge opportunity for discounts.   Buying used is an exercise in exploiting opportunities as they come up.     


> I think I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't last long with just a lathe. Within a few months I would want a mill too.


This is no doubt true.   However in that time you should develop a better idea of what you are interested in and the compromises you are willing to make.  


> I have read this in other threads too. Is the 350 mm between centers really "way to small" ? I have been looking at many build threads for small V8's and what I can find about crankshaft lenght doesn't exceed that. I haven't found or bought any V8 plans yet.


That is a big and difficult question to answer.   The first thing to realize is that those center to center distances are optimal measured  with dead centers.  Throw a live center in there, a drill chuck, or a large chuck on the spindle and your working distances evaporate fairly fast.   

A V8 is rather advanced project to begin with so you might not need a "big" lathe to begin with and maybe not even for your first V8' but what about that second V8 engine.  

My personal opinion is that you need to look at larger machines than you have first considered.  


> And if I want to go for a bigger lathe it will be a big step. The next step is 400mm/16inch and I think that is to close to the 350mm. So the next one up is 500mm/20inch and that comes as a 9x20.


Even 16" is better than nothing.    


> That mill is way to heavy for me to get in the attic. Even if I take it apart it will be a real struggle.


Three stories is a big climb no matter what size machine.    Due to that you really need to buy or rent suitable moving equipment.  If you need to do that then you might as well get what ever size mill is required.  


> The rotary table is already on the shopping list.


Just moving a decent size rotary table is a lot of work.  


> Ofcourse I'm counting on people here.
> 
> And I have a friend with some 40 years experience in metalworking.


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## Swifty (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm afraid that if you are going to work in your attic, you are limited to smaller bench top machines. I just checked the weight of a 9x20 lathe and it's approx 220 lbs. without a stand, even pulling everything off it's still a difficult thing to carry up to the attic, and can the attic floor carry this weight over a small area.

Although having said that, you may be OK with the weight on the floor, as a "solid" man can weigh this much.

Paul.


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## mechman48 (Jan 9, 2014)

Hi 
 I would go for the biggest your budget, & space will allow, I am in the UK & I have the UK version of the BF20L (Grizzly 0704) mill plus Warco 250V-F (G0752 similar ?). If I'd had that bit extra finance I would have gone for the next size up on both machines but as I also needed tooling I went for what I have now, have to admit so far, both have performed admirably 'straight out of the box' after initial clean up.

 George


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## Rob_B (Feb 17, 2014)

Had plenty of time to think things over. At the moment I'm looking at a Myford ML7.
Maybe not the safest way to get a lathe as there are so many things to look out for. But owning a 60 year old lathe sounds cool.


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