# What to drive with my steam engines???



## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2008)

When I finish building my current engine, the double horizontal, I would like to build something to run with a couple of the engines I have built, for display. (This one will be my fourth engine). Whatever it is it should be mechanically oriented (Not a man chopping wood, etc.) A circular saw is too simple. A pump pumping water is one possibility. An entire sawmill is far too complicated. ----I am looking for suggestions from all you mechanical types out there.--Thanks in advance.---Brian


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## Brass_Machine (Oct 26, 2008)

Brain,

I don't know how mechanical this would be considered, but I have been wanting to build either a ferris wheel or a carousel to run off of a steamer. 

Eric


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2008)

Eric--Thats funny, I have thought about a ferris wheel myself. There is a "recycle store" not far from me that has a collection of brass cymbals about 12" in diameter, and I was considering buying a pair of them and machining out "spokes" to make the 2 sides. It becomes a bit much though, by the time you make all the seats, and a support tower for each side. I haven't totally given up on the idea though. A carousel would be interesting, but a real challenge if you put horses on it and made a movement to make them go up and down----


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## tel (Oct 26, 2008)

How about a stamping battery - I'm pretty sure you would have had those in Canadia. Mine's always a real attention grabber


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## Brass_Machine (Oct 26, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Eric--Thats funny, I have thought about a ferris wheel myself. There is a "recycle store" not far from me that has a collection of brass cymbals about 12" in diameter, and I was considering buying a pair of them and machining out "spokes" to make the 2 sides. It becomes a bit much though, by the time you make all the seats, and a support tower for each side. I haven't totally given up on the idea though. A carousel would be interesting, but a real challenge if you put horses on it and made a movement to make them go up and down----



You could always get a model ferris wheel and adapt it or use the cars etc...

Something like THIS but I have no idea on the size of it.

Eric


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## Stan (Oct 26, 2008)

Build a generator and then you can keep adding electric motor driven equipment. It will keep you busy for years.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2008)

Stan  said:
			
		

> Build a generator and then you can keep adding electric motor driven equipment. It will keep you busy for years.


Stan---I don't do "electric". Mechanical shtuff only, and something with a bit of visual "appeal" to it.


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## Maryak (Oct 27, 2008)

Brian,

How about a crane ??? ??? ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## DickDastardly40 (Oct 27, 2008)

Marble elevators always look cool to me, used to love seeing that sort of thing as a younger kid! (Just an almost 42 kid now) A steam powered one would be even better. Did Birk (Oldmechthings) build one? 

I'll have to check when at home as I can't see most publicly hosted pictures at work.


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## tel (Oct 27, 2008)

_I'll have to check when at home as I can't see most publicly hosted pictures at work._

There y'go, tossing four letter words about again


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## Stan (Oct 27, 2008)

In my involvement with a museum we have demonstration days with engines (steam and i/c) driving many things. Some are full size machines but some are models. Most are farm oriented but you can take your pick from complexity.
Threshing machine
Hay press
Water well pump
Corn sheller
Corn chopper
Bone grinder
Cord wood saw
Shingle mill
Saw mill
Dynamometer






Here is the steam power for the little separator


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## steamboatmodel (Oct 27, 2008)

How about a sidewheel steamboat?
Regards,
Gerald


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## DickDastardly40 (Oct 27, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> There y'go, tossing four letter words about again



You misread that Tel rather than I mispelled, I said can't! ;D


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## mklotz (Oct 27, 2008)

How about a martini mixer?


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2008)

Marv--What a beautifull model cement mixer!!! Did you make that or does someone sell them?---Brian


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## biometrics (Oct 27, 2008)

Depending on the size and power, how about a chipper/shredder for making mulch?


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## mklotz (Oct 27, 2008)

Brian,

I made it myself. The design is by Rudy Kouhoupt. It was first featured on the cover of the January 1996 issue of "Home Shop Machinist" and the four part construction article extended into the July 1996 issue of the magazine.

The gears on it were my first serious venture into proper gear making and, fortunately, turned out very well. For the crown gear there's no option other than making it since no supplier sells the size gear used.

It was a great build - a welcome change from engines and an opportunity to learn some new techniques as well as make use of some of my machining programs to form the contours of the cross bar and the barrel.


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## GailInNM (Oct 27, 2008)

Brian,
If you don't want to be too practical, and I think that is against the rules in this hobby, a Slinky toy operator is a great crowd pleaser. I have seen several at model engineering shows a dozen years or so ago and they attract interest from everyone from kids to model engineers. I have photos some where, but I have no idea where. 

Think of a double platform balance scale with a parallel linkage to keep the platforms level while they move up and down. Then drive the platforms with any kind of odd linkages that you can think of. Belts, gears, bell cranks, push rods or anything else from the junk box. I have seen cog gears like used on the old Dutch windmills, gears sliced at an angle so the mating teeth move in and out along the axis of rotation, elliptical gears, chain and sprockets, bevel gears, worm gears and other assorted drives. On top of the platforms is a Slinky toy so it pours from one platform to the other. If y0u don't remember Slinky toys, they are the coil spring toy that would walk down stairs. Been around a long time and are still available at most any toy store for a few dollars. Use the full size Slinky and not the Slinky Junior. The platforms have to be close together. Still simpler is to make just one platform move and the other stationary, but it does not have near the appeal when operating.

The period of operation should be about 15 so operations per minute so set your reduction ratios from the engine to platform accordingly. 

I have a new Slinky I picked up a couple of months ago for just this purpose. 

Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2008)

Gail---I love that idea. As for slinkys and hula hoops, I was the right age to have them when they first came out in the fifties. --Brian


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## ChooChooMike (Oct 27, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> How about a stamping battery - I'm pretty sure you would have had those in Canadia. Mine's always a real attention grabber



Did you build the stamp battery yourself, or is that a model kit from somewhere ? I've taken lots of pictures of those stamp batteries in old mills/mining areas.


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## tel (Oct 27, 2008)

Built it from scratch mate, after studying some of the old 'real' ones to be found here and there in this district. Also of great help was Ion Iddress' book 'Prospecting for Gold' - written in about the 1920's, he devotes a full chapter to the erecting of one.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2008)

Tel---I seen machinery that looked similar to that in the old gold mine museums in California a couple of years ago, around Downieville. The machines were ran by Pelton wheels fed by water from the lakes up in the mountains. The machines I seen were used for pulverizing ore. Is that what your machine is?----Brian


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## tel (Oct 27, 2008)

Yes Brian, they were used for crushing ore, very common on the goldfields.


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## ChooChooMike (Oct 27, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> Yes Brian, they were used for crushing ore, very common on the goldfields.



Yup, they were used all over the mining industry. There's a few good examples of stamp mills around, especially in Colorado, California, Nevada, Arizona and Utah. Stamp mills go back 100's of years too, old old old.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2008)

One of the ideas I have been toying with (But have never seen done) goes as follows: Build a vehicle of some kind---truck, tractor, anything that moves under its own power, driven by a small steam (in my case air) powered engine. Have a central stationary tower, with a pivotting arm that goes from the top of the tower out to the vehicle. This arm would be a hollow rigid tube, with a rotary union at the top of the tower. Air is pumped out to the vehicle thru the arm, and the vehicle drives around in a circle which is dictated by the length of the arm. Has anyone ever done that or seen it done?


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## Bernd (Oct 28, 2008)

Yup. They are or were called tether cars. Used model airplane engines for drive and were tethered to a pole via cable to run on a circle track.

Why don't you build a boiler and use R/C to drive your vehicle. Check out Crafu Steam. This guy powers a lot of things with steam.

http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/

Bernd


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2008)

Bernd--I know about tether cars--I just never heard of the motive power being delivered thru the tether like I was proposing.---Brian


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## Bernd (Oct 28, 2008)

Hey, you may have just invented a whole new hobby with that idea. Tethered air powered vehicles. How fast can you go? :big:

Bernd


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2008)

Gail---I made up sketches last night for the two moving platforms and the linkage to drive them. Since you currently have a slinky and I don't  perhaps you could be kind enough to tell me what the required minimum height differential between the 2 platforms has to be to make the slinky "slink" Please---Brian


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## GailInNM (Oct 29, 2008)

Brian,
Here are some dimensions to hopefully help you out. 
There is no minimum differential as any movement will cause some action. There is a maximum of about 5/8 inch differential however. If you go beyond that the supply side of the Slinky will lift off the platform and that is under static conditions. With a 3/8 differential, there is about a 30:70 ratio of Slinky on the platforms. When we play with them, our hands hold the last few coils on each end and this prevents "lift off". Unless it is operated very slow, I suspect that some mean will be required to hold each end to the platform. A little glue or some mechanical means like a thin metal clip screwed to the platform maybe. There is a lot inertia in the Slinky coils. Maybe tilting the platforms slightly toward each other with a shallow pocket for the end coil would work.

For reference, my Slinky measures 2.688 OD and 2.490 ID. There is a little crimped on metal clip that secures the last turn and it is 0.160 wide by 0.160 long. Made out of 1/32 sheet stock. With out securing the ends, the best spacing seems to be about 3/8 to 1/2 inch between the OD's of the coils, IE about 3-1/16 to 3-1/8 inch center to center distance on the coils. I really think you will need to secure the ends of the coils to the platforms and in that case the distance between could be increased and I think that would look a little better. 

Hope this helps.
Gail in NM,USA


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2008)

Great stuff!!! Thanks Gail---Thats the slinkiest information I ever got. I think I'll try for 1.5" total differential and glue the slinky ends in place.--Brian


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## GailInNM (Oct 29, 2008)

Gooks good Brian.
I just played with my toy and 1-1/2 inch seems good. At about 1-1/4 inch differential and the coils spaced about 1 inch apart on the OD there is 100 percent transfer, so that would give you a little bit of delay on each end before the movement reverses. I Think that would look good. Those are eyeball dimensions of course.

I have now put my toy back in the box so I can get some work done. Too much fun to play with. I think I have more fun with the Slinky now than the first time I got one, and that was a LONG time ago. 

Let me know if you need/want any more info.

Best wishes,
Gail in NM,USA


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## BobWarfield (Oct 29, 2008)

Another couple of thoughts. First, for insanely odd yet cool steam powered devices, be sure to check out Crabfu Steamworks:

http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/

There are a lot of fun ideas there to delight the young and the old.

Second, in terms of a quasi-practical demonstrator, how about a steam powered semi-automatic can crusher?

I think, BTW, there is no harm in driving more than one apparatus. The slinky gizmo can't consume too much of the power I wouldn't think. It would be fun to think of a way to set it up as a governor somehow.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2008)

Bob--What a wild and crazy bunch of machines.--thank You---Brian


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## BobWarfield (Oct 29, 2008)

Yeah, I gotta build a little Crabfu walker at some point. They're just too fun to ignore!


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2008)

Hey---There we are---A slinky machine!!!


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## tel (Oct 29, 2008)

c/mon you blokes - a Slinky Operator would have to be the most useless device in the entire history of the known Universe - and now that the seed has been fired into what passes for my brain I _*just gotta build one*_ ;D


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> c/mon you blokes - a Slinky Operator would have to be the most useless device in the entire history of the known Universe - and now that the seed has been fired into what passes for my brain I _*just gotta build one*_ ;D


After being in business for 7 years now, I have dealt with my share of "slinky operators"!!!!


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## tel (Oct 29, 2008)

Hmmm - wonder if I could build one that will stop and sell you a bridge 'arfway thru' the cycle?


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## ksouers (Oct 29, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> ...the most useless device in the entire history of the known Universe...



And that is precisely why it MUST be built ;D


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## tel (Oct 29, 2008)

Exactly - we should qualify for a Government Grant for such an important project.


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 29, 2008)

Brian, nice drawing of the machine that must be built :bow:. That goes on the to-do list for sure. Even without the slinky it looks like a machine that's doing some "thing". 

Cheers,
Phil


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## seagar (Oct 29, 2008)

I badly need one of them so it is going to the top of my roundtoit list until one of you blokes comes up with another great idea that I cant do without.You sure are keeping my retirement busy.LOL

Ian


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## tel (Oct 29, 2008)

Modification to pitman arm


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 29, 2008)

Let's see....we got guys who can design stuff that's cool : and we got guys who like to make stuff that's cool :. I'm sensing a meltdown in the future :big:

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> Modification to pitman arm


Good Lord!!!! A pitman hand!!!!  Reminds me of a funny story---Two old retired snakes are talking over hard times when they were young. One old snake says to the other--"Why I can remember when I was a kid, we were so poor that we didn't have a pit to hiss in."


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## BobWarfield (Oct 29, 2008)

Somebody's gotta build a beam engine with a slinky mod!

BW


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## steamer (Oct 30, 2008)

Why not build a "Doctor" engine if you want to build a beam?

Dave


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 30, 2008)

Lets see if we can make the bugger run---


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## dsquire (Oct 30, 2008)

Brian

You have made such a fine job on the Steam Engine that you need something more than just a slinky to really show it off and draw attention. What you are showing here is a very good start for the slinky bases but why drive them directly from the motor. What about something that would lift up some metal balls or marbles and deposit them on the top platform. These platforms would be spring loaded and would sink with the added weight putting the slinky into action. This would also open a gate allowing the marbles to make their way back down to be recycled again or they could set something else in motion before returning to be recycled. I'm sure if others put in some ideas you will have a better mouse trap all powered by that cute little Steam Engine.

Cheers

Don


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 16, 2008)

One of these comes in very high on the list of "Things to run with one of my steam engines" . It wouldn't take a lot of power for this one, so I could run it off of my double acting wobbler. It would run fairly slowly, with a massive ratio reduction via o-ring drive.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 16, 2008)

So, lets see--I can run a slinky machine off the beam engine. I can run a Geneva mechanism off the double acting wobbler, and I don't know yet about the new double horizontal. It is a very powerfull engine, and there is enough "monkey motion" going on with all the exposed valve rods and connecting rods, and big flywheels that perhaps it wouldn't have to run anything. The very first engine I built, a single acting wobbler of Elmer Verburgs design, is a cute little thing, but its a bit small to run anything with.


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## jack404 (Nov 16, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> Exactly - we should qualify for a Government Grant for such an important project.



i dont see why not, my ex's brother got $80,000 to develop a surf board for women, lane beachly our world champ womens surfer thought it sucked "the worse POC i've ever ridden, a boogie board would be better" was her quote if i remember

a bloke got $60,000 to develop a brick lifter that he bought from some place in china and called it a unique invention

another clown got $45,000 to develop a happy work place scheme for state government workers ( silly hat friday casual clothing day etc) this has gotta be worth $100,000


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## tel (Nov 16, 2008)

Ha! I remember that surfboard grant! Back in the 'eady days of Bob 'awk, if memory serves.


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## jack404 (Nov 17, 2008)

you got it tel 

Indiana keating and his budgets of doom days. J curve financing etc arh the mid 70's 

i got a ticket to the pipeline classic in Hawaii and did not go ( Army) but my mate did and he did real good 

shoulda been a surfer instead of staying soldier oh well.. at least i made it into Capt Goodvibes!!

the grant was actually $204,000 split between 3 surf shops, all about buying north shore votes

i recken a project like the one mentioned is way better..

now that labours back in maybe it'd be worth chasin up the ex, she was a wizz at getting grants for folks

 :big: :big: :big: :big: my apology to the folks who aint got a clue what we're on about


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## tel (Nov 17, 2008)

Ah! The good ol' days, interest rates at about 22% and nobody cared!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2008)

It has been my experience that there is always government grant money available for damn near everything. The only problem is, that it is mired so deeply in Legalese that it takes seven lawyers and a bulldog to decipher the damn stuff!!! If you're not up to the task yourself, or don't have somebody close like Jacks ex to follow the paper trail to the money, then its nearly impossible to access it.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 20, 2008)

Slinky platform revisited--He guys, I'm just messin around with my movie making software---


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## kustomkb (Nov 20, 2008)

cool! thats a great idea!


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## jack404 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brian this may sound wacko

but i'm hopeing to run a roller coaster with one, Model of course

very similar to the early one at Coney Island in NY and Luna Park here in Oz ( early on 1900's)

both had steam Calliope's running music and the Calliope's both actually ran the rollercoasters and merry go rounds and in some cases other things as well the miuic drowning out the noise of the engine..


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 13, 2008)

I am going to revive this old thread, as I now have a clearer idea of the direction that I would like to move in. I have found out that the double acting wobbler (my second engine) with the reduction pulley and o-ring drive, and also the beam engine will power the Slinky Machine with no problem. For the twin cylinder horizontal engine that I just added the governor to, I want to build something on which the load varies, but the load variation has to have longer periods of stability between high load and low load modes, and must run on its own without my intervention.--For example, I don't want it running a saw, where I would have to feed something into the saw to change the load.--Likewise, with a waterpump, there just isn't enough time between strokes of a pump to let the governor work the way I want to see it work. I am thinking of a baseball elevator, consisting of two #25 sprockets arranged vertically, one above the other, about 24" apart connected by a chain which has a "dog" attached to one link.. The sprockets would revolve slowly, and the "dog" would lift a softball up the 24" thru a clear plastic tube with a slot in one side to allow the "dog" to stick thru into the tube ,and the walls of the tube keep the ball from falling off the "dog". (This would be the "load" side of things). When the softball reached the top of the elevator tube, it would tip off, and follow a series of chutes or tracks back down to the lower elevation (this would be the "no load" stage), then it would end up at a loading position at the bottom of the tube and be picked up again to repeat the cycle. The ball would descend quite rapidly, but since the chain and "dog" move at a constant speed, the load/no load cycle time should remain the same all the time.---Any comments???


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## rleete (Dec 13, 2008)

Instead of a softball, how about a large ball bearing? Say, 1-2" diameter. This would give you a decent load, and the size would be smaller, allowing for a smaller tube (clear PVC?). It would also be smoother; no stitching to worry about.

Other than that, I like it.


BTW, the slinky engine is something I want to make for my son.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 13, 2008)

rleete  said:
			
		

> Instead of a softball, how about a large ball bearing? Say, 1-2" diameter. This would give you a decent load, and the size would be smaller, allowing for a smaller tube (clear PVC?). It would also be smoother; no stitching to worry about.
> 
> Other than that, I like it.
> 
> ...



I like that idea--in fact I have a couple of largish chromed bearing balls, 1" diameter. The problem is that when you gear the machine down low enough to move at the speed I want to see, it develops some pretty strong torque and a 1" diameter steel ball might not be enough load to make the motor "work" the way I want..


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## kustomkb (Dec 13, 2008)

How about a few dogs, with multiple balls.

I made a spiral elevator for one of my rolling ball sculptures and here is another if you need any ideas for chutes and tracks;

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...MJrUqAOr2aSWDA&q=rolling+ball+sculpture&hl=en

Kevin.


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## ksouers (Dec 13, 2008)

Hmm, another idea could be a hammer mill sort of thing. A large diameter cam lifting a dead blow hammer and letting it drop.


Kevin


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 13, 2008)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> Hmm, another idea could be a hammer mill sort of thing. A large diameter cam lifting a dead blow hammer and letting it drop.
> 
> 
> Kevin


I actually thought about that, only with a roller cam and a baseball bat.


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## Bart (Dec 20, 2008)

I'm not sure how big your engine is, but I've always thought it would be neat to have a small steam engine power an old fashioned hand crank ice cream maker. At the start of making a batch of ice cream it's relatively easy to crank the bucket or it's scrapers. Then, as the ice cream hardens, the load will gradually increase and require your governor to react to that load change. Of course, the whole process takes around 20 minutes for a 4 to 6 quart batch of ice cream.


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## Bernd (Dec 20, 2008)

Nice idea Bart. But from seeing Brians avatar I think he needs less ice cream than more.  :big: :big: :big:


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## rleete (Dec 20, 2008)

Bernd, that's not fat, that's insulation. Well, that's my excuse, anyway.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 20, 2008)

Cruel guys,--Really cruel. And right at this time of year, people are generally nice to me!!! ;D ;D ;D Wait untill you see whats in YOUR stocking next week---


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## Kludge (Dec 20, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Wait untill you see whats in YOUR stocking next week---



It will probably be cinders again, just like it has been as long as I can remember. 

The trip hammer sounds like an idea I had - a pile driver but I think they used steam to lift it directly. 

Hmmm ... maybe as a method to slow you down some - the harder you try to get way ahead of us in speed, the more drag it provides. *sigh* ... Won't work. You'd override the governor which would kind of defeat the purpose.

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Maryak (Dec 21, 2008)

Brian,

Don't complain, it's better than looking like 2 yards of chewed string. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Believe me I am speaking from personal experience.  

Best Regards
Bob


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