# Stuart 10v



## swarf (Oct 12, 2020)

My first project is going to be a Stuart 10v. After checking out Keith Appleton, TinkerJohn and Andrew Whale thought I'd give it a go.
No machining skills to speak of. Always wanted to do this and have finally started.
Here's a couple pics


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## aka9950202 (Oct 13, 2020)

Looks like a good start.  Looking forward to seeing more pictures and a video of the engine running. 

Cheers, 
Andrew in Melbourne


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## delalio (Oct 14, 2020)

Great Work. Slow and steady builds a good engine.

I completed one of these last year and only just got round to painting it.

I would make one part each evening after work in a community workshop. Some nights I was there 1-2h, others 6-7h until 2-3am.

I found it very satisfying seeing all the parts come together. I had very few skills when I started mine too. It's a great project to begin with.
Tip, work down to your final size slowly. I made a couple of parts too small, and the amount of stock in the kit isn't really supportive of many mistakes!!

Do you have the official book by Stuart on how to make it? I think they sell it for like ~£15. Well worth it. Replacement castings are more than that.

Keep us posted on your progress...

Oh and 2 more tips:
I broke one of my castings, but managed to pick up another from stuart from their stand at a show. (Not that there's any shows running currently!)
The part I broke was the A-Frame / Standard. Go really lightly when cleaning up the bottom of the legs, when machining it on the mandrel. I thought they were a lot more durable than they are. The broken piece went for a quick tour of the workshop if you know what I mean!

Take your time on the piston, the piston rod and the cylinder's bottom cap. These 3 need to be perfectly concentric else it will bind, and not run very well! Don't ask how I know that!

Here's a video of mine running after I rebuilt it after painting. It's great to see something you've made actually running by itself.


Enjoy the journey. If you're anything like me, you'll do a few detours on the way!


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## Richard Hed (Oct 15, 2020)

swarf said:


> My first project is going to be a Stuart 10v. After checking out Keith Appleton, TinkerJohn and Andrew Whale thought I'd give it a go.
> No machining skills to speak of. Always wanted to do this and have finally started.
> Here's a couple picsView attachment 120005
> View attachment 120006


I'm building this and another one from Stuart.  Yours looks a LOT better than mine.  I blame it on my tools (take no responsibility for my own incompetence, LOL).  Really, however, I have to use a drill press, have no mill, and my lathe is an Enco 9X20.  Am trying to get the company I am harvesting corn for to sell me their lathe which is sitting in the weather for 5 years.  Apparently it workt well when it was retired.  It was retired because it had no modern OSHA safety covers, etc.  

But back to hyour build.  So far so good.  I have finished different parts, have the cylinder and piston assemblies finished (sort of) but they do not fit well so I am thimking I needs to remake the cylinder end with the piston rod hole.  I thimk I got the hole off by a very tiny amount, this should be relatively easy to do but it would be easier to do with a better lathe.  I am making ER-32, ER-40 and ER-50 collet chucks so I can do more accurate work quickly and without a lot of trouble like a four jaw.  The three jaw, of course, is inherently inaccurate.


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## packrat (Oct 16, 2020)

Quote " Am trying to get the company I am harvesting corn for to sell me their lathe which is sitting in the weather for 5 years."

What is the size of the lathe and make, did it get rusted being out side for 5 years.??


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## comstock-friend (Oct 16, 2020)

packrat said:


> What is the size of the lathe and make, did it get rusted being out side for 5 years.??



5 years in outside in Seattle... Hell yeah!


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## Richard Hed (Oct 16, 2020)

Packrat,
yes, outside in weather, but this weather is Moses Lake, MUCH dryier than Seattle.  The rust is minimal which one can judge somewhat how bad the ways are.  It's really not bad, a bit of 2000 grit or maybe 1600 should remove most of what I can see.  But I don't want to jump the gun--this "negociation" is taking forever--I just want a price which I can accept or reject.

The make is "American Tool Works" out of Cincinatti.  It's length over all is 7-1/2 feets but the bed is (I forgot to actually measure the bed, as I was wondering if I could get it into my pickup truck -- I can't) about 5feet, maby 4-1/2--that range.  I thot that maybe the electric motor was an add on from the steam days, that is, that maybe the pulleys had been removed and an electric engine added, but no, the struts and parts seem to be integral to the machine--even tho' I feel that it was built at that time between steam and fully electric which means the engine is not covered, it is placed where the pulleys would have been and it's obviously before their line of "Pacemakers" which are apparently legendary--tho' I had neveer heard of them before, which are completely covered and look very nice.

I found a 1929 model that lookt somewhat like it but was definitely not identical.  Having trouble with finding the exact model.  Should try to find that info on the lathe itself but when off work want to get a shower and some zzz's.  Oh, the diameter size should be about 12" radius for turning, didn't measure that either, as it has more capacity than I should ever need.

Comstock, I don't really live in Seattle, I live in the dry part of the Soviet.  I put "Seattle" on my little visible blurb so that peeps NOT from USA would have an idea where I exist as Seattle is a large, well known and relatively important city.  I suppose they could now use on-line maps to find Moses Lake if they were interested.


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## packrat (Oct 16, 2020)

Maybe you could put some Kroil on it as the negotiations go on..?


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## Richard Hed (Oct 16, 2020)

packrat said:


> Maybe you could put some Kroil on it as the negotiations go on..?


by "Kroil" I believe you mean rust resisting grease or something.  Believe me, it's not going to rust any more in a month, it rarely even rains over here.  If they haven't decided on a price by the time harvest is over in 2-3 weeks, I will probably just go with the Grizzly I have my eye on.  I'm too old to fool around with negotiations oveer a boat anchor.  There is too much work to do to get it in working order (maybe not really a lot but enough) and I'm one of the guys who want to USE the thing, not restore it.  (Altho' I appreciate those peeps who DO want to restore them.)  Are you one who likes to restore things?  Since I had never heard of American Tool Works before, I would like to make it at least beautiful again.


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## swarf (Oct 16, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> I'm building this and another one from Stuart.  Yours looks a LOT better than mine.  I blame it on my tools (take no responsibility for my own incompetence, LOL).  Really, however, I have to use a drill press, have no mill, and my lathe is an Enco 9X20.  Am trying to get the company I am harvesting corn for to sell me their lathe which is sitting in the weather for 5 years.  Apparently it workt well when it was retired.  It was retired because it had no modern OSHA safety covers, etc.
> 
> But back to hyour build.  So far so good.  I have finished different parts, have the cylinder and piston assemblies finished (sort of) but they do not fit well so I am thimking I needs to remake the cylinder end with the piston rod hole.  I thimk I got the hole off by a very tiny amount, this should be relatively easy to do but it would be easier to do with a better lathe.  I am making ER-32, ER-40 and ER-50 collet chucks so I can do more accurate work quickly and without a lot of trouble like a four jaw.  The three jaw, of course, is inherently inaccurate.


I have mediocre equipment but it does what I need it to do (mill/drill and 8x14 lathe all China/India).
Just take your time and enjoy the challenge and the reward that comes with the completion of each mini project. Then the ultimate when your project is complete and works.


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## swarf (Oct 16, 2020)

Thanks all.


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## glue-itcom (Oct 17, 2020)

40 years ago now that I saw a set of 10V castings in the old blistering packaging in a shop display case, Built most of the engine on an Emco Unimat 3, only issue was I had to split the eccentric strap and rod as I couldn't swing it...





The engine runs like a dream even on an air pump from a car seat....so about 10-15psi

plus I still have the Unimat 3 -  a beautiful lathe that is now only made as a poor copy


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## gunner312 (Oct 17, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> Packrat,
> yes, outside in weather, but this weather is Moses Lake, MUCH dryier than Seattle.  The rust is minimal which one can judge somewhat how bad the ways are.  It's really not bad, a bit of 2000 grit or maybe 1600 should remove most of what I can see.  But I don't want to jump the gun--this "negociation" is taking forever--I just want a price which I can accept or reject.
> 
> The make is "American Tool Works" out of Cincinatti.  It's length over all is 7-1/2 feets but the bed is (I forgot to actually measure the bed, as I was wondering if I could get it into my pickup truck -- I can't) about 5feet, maby 4-1/2--that range.  I thot that maybe the electric motor was an add on from the steam days, that is, that maybe the pulleys had been removed and an electric engine added, but no, the struts and parts seem to be integral to the machine--even tho' I feel that it was built at that time between steam and fully electric which means the engine is not covered, it is placed where the pulleys would have been and it's obviously before their line of "Pacemakers" which are apparently legendary--tho' I had neveer heard of them before, which are completely covered and look very nice.
> ...


In my 30 + years of being a Machinist I have run "American Lathe Co" Machines they were all very heavy duty machines and I wouldn't mind running one now. As far as them being worn out, I remember a lathe I ran that was a 20" X 24' old Cincinnati tray top that the ways were so worn at the headstock end the the tool would drop .075 in the last 14 or so inches. we/I managed to hold + - .001 tolerance with the old girl. It just takes learning the machine.


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## packrat (Oct 18, 2020)

Quote "by "Kroil" I believe you mean rust resisting grease or something"









						Kroil - Best Penetrating Oil | Kano Laboratories, LLC
					

Trust the best penetrating oil on the market! Choose from Kroil Original Penetrant (AeroKroil) or Kroil Penetrant with Silicone (SiliKroil).




					www.kanolabs.com


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## fcheslop (Oct 18, 2020)

Check the pcd for the trunk guide bolts. Something in my mind about them coming close to the edge 
Nearly 30 years ago since I built two D10s for a tug so could be wrong 
cheers


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## anton.vanstaden2 (Nov 2, 2020)

swarf said:


> My first project is going to be a Stuart 10v. After checking out Keith Appleton, TinkerJohn and Andrew Whale thought I'd give it a go.
> No machining skills to speak of. Always wanted to do this and have finally started.
> Here's a couple picsView attachment 120005
> View attachment 120006


Hi it looks very good. I ordered my castings for Stuart last week. I bought the V10 Castings, the S50 and the Stuart Progress. I reckoned I would start with the Progress, it looks a bit easier than the V10, Mr Pete222 did a series on you tube in 2017. I have a almost full set BA Taps and Dies, but Andy for Stuart said that I will also need ME and BSB taps and dies. I did not order them now. Can I substitute it with some other - maybe Metric, I am from South Africa, so I don't have easy access to even Imperial Taps and dies, not to speak of ME and BSB. Good luck with your build and keep posting pics.


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## packrat (Nov 2, 2020)

Can you find US size taps and dies in South Africa ? 
If you want to change BA threads to U.S sizes
here is a size caparison chart, if you wanted to use U.S Taps and dies and US bolts and nuts for odd sizes, like B.S.F and M.E threads.


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## Richard Hed (Nov 2, 2020)

packrat said:


> Can you find US size taps and dies in South Africa ?
> If you want to change BA threads to U.S sizes
> here is a size caparison chart, if you wanted to use U.S Taps and dies and US bolts and nuts for odd sizes, like B.S.F and M.E threads.


As for myself only, I refuse to use the BA nuts and bolts unless they are EXACT copies of some American thread.  It isn't that I am prejudiced, it's because I will not buy the taps and dies--too expensive.  Also, I don't care whether or not my toys I build are exact copies of what ever.  I use hex bolts whenever they will fit because I likes them.


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## wce4 (Nov 3, 2020)

packrat said:


> Can you find US size taps and dies in South Africa ?
> If you want to change BA threads to U.S sizes
> here is a size caparison chart, if you wanted to use U.S Taps and dies and US bolts and nuts for odd sizes, like B.S.F and M.E threads.


Thank you for your caparison chart jpg file. I have copy it to a notepad file (.txt ext.) and attach a copy here for others to save and add to if they so desire.


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## Shelton (Nov 3, 2020)

Have you tried saving it to your computer then trying to print?


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## Oldiron (Nov 4, 2020)

I believe there is a mistake in the chart above. The U.S. equivalent to 8BA should be *2*-56. Very handy chart. Thanks packrat. Bob


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## packrat (Nov 5, 2020)

Quote "I believe there is a mistake in the chart above. The U.S. equivalent to 8BA should be *2*-56. Very handy chart. Thanks packrat. Bob"
 Yes I think your right, Thank you


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## wce4 (Nov 6, 2020)

packrat said:


> Quote "I believe there is a mistake in the chart above. The U.S. equivalent to 8BA should be *2*-56. Very handy chart. Thanks packrat. Bob"
> Yes I think your right, Thank you


 Updated the .txt file with the change to 8BA. Thanks again packrat.


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## Steamchick (Nov 7, 2020)

Just an odd point. I have a stock of 7BA bolts with 8BA heads, and other sizes, that I bought from one of the Steam parts suppliers in the UK (mail order). - That helps the model look good with "small hex" heads. Akin to the second world war expedient of using BSF hex sizes for WHIT bolts. - saved millions of tons of steel and weight of aircraft etc. - and we never went back afterwards. But it was made possible by the availability of "recycled Battleship armour plate" - and better steels after WW2... than had been cheaply available in the 1920s...
K2


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## AndrewW (Nov 17, 2020)

swarf said:


> My first project is going to be a Stuart 10v. After checking out Keith Appleton, TinkerJohn and Andrew Whale thought I'd give it a go.
> No machining skills to speak of. Always wanted to do this and have finally started.
> Here's a couple picsView attachment 120005
> View attachment 120006


Hey - I hope the 10v is progressing well and thanks for the mention. I hope some of my videos will be of help too.
Cheers!
Andrew Whale


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## Richard Hed (Nov 17, 2020)

gunner312 said:


> In my 30 + years of being a Machinist I have run "American Lathe Co" Machines they were all very heavy duty machines and I wouldn't mind running one now. As far as them being worn out, I remember a lathe I ran that was a 20" X 24' old Cincinnati tray top that the ways were so worn at the headstock end the the tool would drop .075 in the last 14 or so inches. we/I managed to hold + - .001 tolerance with the old girl. It just takes learning the machine.


Gunnar,
How far is Belfair on the road from the Narrows Bridge?  I would like to come out to visit you if I can in December if I have time.  Please let me know at my eddress of [email protected],
Don


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## Richard Hed (Nov 17, 2020)

Steamchick said:


> Just an odd point. I have a stock of 7BA bolts with 8BA heads, and other sizes, that I bought from one of the Steam parts suppliers in the UK (mail order). - That helps the model look good with "small hex" heads. Akin to the second world war expedient of using BSF hex sizes for WHIT bolts. - saved millions of tons of steel and weight of aircraft etc. - and we never went back afterwards. But it was made possible by the availability of "recycled Battleship armour plate" - and better steels after WW2... than had been cheaply available in the 1920s...
> K2


I read about the changes that had to be made during the war because American help came.  The British had 55deg, rounded peaks and valley threads, the American 60deg, pointed or flat peaks and valleys.  Their were other differences so a commission was formed to make nuts and bolts to work for BOTH types and thus have spare parts that would work in either situation.  Market Garden failed to test their radios which didn't work and contributed to the disaster.  Nuts and bolts that are nominally the same but fundamentally different can lose a war.  So I am interested in what you said.  I never knew about the recycled armour but it makes sense.  Of course they would recycle what they could.


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## Steamchick (Nov 18, 2020)

Iron and steel have been recycled since the inception of the iron age... I guess the first cultivation of forests was for charcoal for iron and steel smelting, and as the Victorians discovered electromagnetism, I guess some bright spark developed iron and steel recovery from rubbish - because where there is scrap there 's a dealer making money....
So does this make iron and steel a great green industry for recycling? I un der stand that more than 40% of the material content of cars are iron and steel.... (>700 kgs of a 1500 kg car) and recycled. I'm sure that ships must be over 90% steel - which is recycled - or sunk. Even the German fleet sunk a Scapa Floe was salvaged for scrap. And the thousands of Steam locos were scrapped, except for the 110 at Barry Scrapyard and a few others. I grew up in Newport, where Cashmores was the biggest scrap yard around and always had ships and submarines tied alongside town wharf being cut-up for recycling. The name says it all! Scrap for Cash(mores).
K2


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## olympic (Nov 18, 2020)

AndrewW said:


> Hey - I hope the 10v is progressing well and thanks for the mention. I hope some of my videos will be of help too.
> Cheers!
> Andrew Whale



I'm also working on a 10V.

Andrew, I wouldn't be entirely lost without your 10V videos, but they make my project a lot easier for a self-taught fumbler with no technical training. I'm about 2/3 done now, and, despite my numerous fumbles and recoveries, I think it'll actually run when I'm through.

Many thanks for your videos.


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## swarf (Apr 19, 2021)

Couple weeks ago.


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## swarf (Apr 19, 2021)

Yesterday afternoon.


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## AndrewW (Apr 19, 2021)

olympic said:


> I'm also working on a 10V.
> 
> Andrew, I wouldn't be entirely lost without your 10V videos, but they make my project a lot easier for a self-taught fumbler with no technical training. I'm about 2/3 done now, and, despite my numerous fumbles and recoveries, I think it'll actually run when I'm through.
> 
> Many thanks for your videos.


Thanks for the feedback olympic. I really appreciate that.
Onwards and upwards!
Andrew


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## swarf (Apr 19, 2021)

Andrew. Great job on your series. Without the likes of you and others I'd be lost.
Thanks again.


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## AndrewW (Apr 19, 2021)

swarf said:


> Andrew. Great job on your series. Without the likes of you and others I'd be lost.
> Thanks again.


Thanks mate. It looks like you are making good progress.
Cheers
Andrew


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## swarf (May 2, 2021)

Couple quick questions
Notice the port sizes. They are irregular. Will this be a problem.

Flange thickness is also not equal. Will this present a problem.
I used the port center as reference.
Btw. The cylinder has been bored and over all length machined to size.


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## Richard Hed (May 2, 2021)

swarf said:


> Couple quick questions
> Notice the port sizes. They are irregular. Will this be a problem.
> 
> Flange thickness is also not equal. Will this present a problem.
> ...


I always try to clean up the two smaller ports using a ball end milling tool for smoother laminar flow.  This might take some tweaking.  the middle port I make sure it is a bit larger than the other two as it has gas that has expanded and needs to be evacuated more quickly simply because the volume is larger.  The valve should be timed to take a little longer over the middle exhaust port but a little larger will not hurt.  Just make sure the middle valve port is properly centered else you may have probs with timing.

I've never seen port holes like that before, I would suspect the casting to be bad.  Do the plans have the ports there?  If they are supposed to be there, I would thimpfk that by machining them to size or any size just about, the fittings will take care of any oversize.  However, those holes there don't seem right to me.


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## Steamchick (May 3, 2021)

This port configuration is common to slide valve engines. But carefully dress the long edges of the holes - use a miller if you are capable - or warding files to "Square-up" the holes. Do not extend the valve timing - The valve timing is critical for top performance, however, even un-fettled, the engine will run. The "more perfectly" it matches the drawing the better, but better to do nothing than take off too much metal and spoil the engine valve timing. The valve rod should have adjustment on the length so that is can be centred over the middle port when setting-up the engine. You really need to understand both the port and valve sizes and how they will mate together to optimise the valve timing. The width of the valve that slides across these ports must be wider than the widest port otherwise the engine will "LEAK" steam internally when running and become a "Poor job". Read a book - such as K.N. Harris's Steam engine book to understand valve timing BEFORE you cut any metal to adjust these ports. 
Once you have cut these ports wider than the drawing you need to design and make a valve that suits, so it is better to not adjust these unless you understand the valve and port relationship and timing so know what you are doing.
Metal that is on the casting that isn't on the drawing can be removed, but "HOLES" on the part that are not on the drawing cannot (easily) be filled-in. The air/steam isn't really running around the corner significantly on a normal model, so don't radius the edges of the port as this is changing the valve timing. It is turbulent, not laminar, flow, so will only make a difference on a hard worked /high performance/high speed engine. Which this model is not. Square sharp edges are best for the valve timing. DO NOT make the ports wider than the drawing, whatever you do.
I hope this helps?
K2


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## Richard Hed (May 3, 2021)

Steamchick said:


> This port configuration is common to slide valve engines. But carefully dress the long edges of the holes - use a miller if you are capable - or warding files to "Square-up" the holes. Do not extend the valve timing - The valve timing is critical for top performance, however, even un-fettled, the engine will run. The "more perfectly" it matches the drawing the better, but better to do nothing than take off too much metal and spoil the engine valve timing. The valve rod should have adjustment on the length so that is can be centred over the middle port when setting-up the engine. You really need to understand both the port and valve sizes and how they will mate together to optimise the valve timing. The width of the valve that slides across these ports must be wider than the widest port otherwise the engine will "LEAK" steam internally when running and become a "Poor job". Read a book - such as K.N. Harris's Steam engine book to understand valve timing BEFORE you cut any metal to adjust these ports.
> Once you have cut these ports wider than the drawing you need to design and make a valve that suits, so it is better to not adjust these unless you understand the valve and port relationship and timing so know what you are doing.
> Metal that is on the casting that isn't on the drawing can be removed, but "HOLES" on the part that are not on the drawing cannot (easily) be filled-in. The air/steam isn't really running around the corner significantly on a normal model, so don't radius the edges of the port as this is changing the valve timing. It is turbulent, not laminar, flow, so will only make a difference on a hard worked /high performance/high speed engine. Which this model is not. Square sharp edges are best for the valve timing. DO NOT make the ports wider than the drawing, whatever you do.
> I hope this helps?
> K2


you are correct about radiusing the edge of the ports, that's not the place you can do this without messing up the timing just as hyou say.  However, on the inside, when cleaning up the sides and so on, one can radius one side of the port.  It is probably not worth the effort for this type of engine.


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## swarf (May 3, 2021)

Richard, think I'm going to order another cylinder casting. 

Steamchick. Ah yes. Lap, lead, pre admission, admission, cutoff, expansion, exhaust and compression. Lots going on here potentially.
I take good material and turn it into scrap. Having said that the steam ports are way off. The exhaust port is the only one that looks good.
Not going to bother with port repairs. As mentioned going to order a new cylinder casting.

Thanks to both of you for your help.


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## Richard Hed (May 3, 2021)

swarf said:


> Richard, think I'm going to order another cylinder casting.
> 
> Steamchick. Ah yes. Lap, lead, pre admission, admission, cutoff, expansion, exhaust and compression. Lots going on here potentially.
> I take good material and turn it into scrap. Having said that the steam ports are way off. The exhaust port is the only one that looks good.
> ...


Before you order it, call the peeps you got it from.  they should simply send a new one.  There should be no trouble, as it is defective.


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## Steamchick (May 4, 2021)

Hi Swarf. You can - I guess, not knowing your abilities - take a 2 mm skim off the surface (or whatever) and replace with a piece of gauge plate of that thickness. I would be tempted to silver solder the plate to the surface an then mill new ports. But alternatively it can be screwed or riveted  in place. Richard will know the best method. His advice teaches me a lot. 
But if defective I would expect the casting supplier to replace it.
Cheers.
K2


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## Charles Lamont (May 4, 2021)

You won't know the exact status of the ports until you have machined the port face. It is premature to state the casting is defective. There is an inevitable tolerance on a sand or shell-moulded castings that you just have to work with.

Actually, the position of the exhaust port does not matter - it does not affect timing. It would have been better to work the cylinder end faces from the outer edges of the steam ports.

Either way, the valve can be set to suit (but anyway only insofar as the 10 thou adjustment that a half turn of the 7BA valve rod provides).

The timing and sharpness of valve events on a Stuart No10 built as designed will be imperfect, but perfectly adequate. And one can of course do extra work to make improvements.

BTW, It looks good so far.


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## Richard Hed (May 4, 2021)

Charles Lamont said:


> You won't know the exact status of the ports until you have machined the port face. It is premature to state the casting is defective. There is an inevitable tolerance on a sand or shell-moulded castings that you just have to work with.
> 
> Actually, the position of the exhaust port does not matter - it does not affect timing. It would have been better to work the cylinder end faces from the outer edges of the steam ports.
> 
> ...


The port holes are not the problem, it is those two BLEMs , the two very large pits or holes on the side, I don't know what you call them but apparently the cast iron didn't fill properly.  If one can drill the holes to the steam and from the exhaust without touching those holes, then all is good.  Even so, I would send them back if I recieved them.  That is, if they are what I THIMFPK they are.  I've got the same set of castings and they do not have those holes in the side.  When he drills the exhaust hole, the passage way might miss those two blems, but what about the steam input passage ways?  Those passages might hit those blems too.  We'll probably have to wait--with baited breath, high tension, fear and loathing, excitement and on the edge of our seats.


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## swarf (May 4, 2021)

Lol. Don't wait to long. I'll probably play with this, but I am getting another casting.
As mentioned, the flanges at either end are not the same thickness. I don't know how that will affect the passage in relation to the ports.
In the meantime there's other parts to machine.
Thanks


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## Richard Hed (May 4, 2021)

swarf said:


> Lol. Don't wait to long. I'll probably play with this, but I am getting another casting.
> As mentioned, the flanges at either end are not the same thickness. I don't know how that will affect the passage in relation to the ports.
> In the meantime there's other parts to machine.
> Thanks


Did you get those castings from Great B? (or is that the UK now?)  I got two sets, the 10V and the H.  Most parts are identical, but not the stand (standard) or base.  There are a few lengths of rods a little shorter too.  The cylinders are identical.


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## swarf (May 4, 2021)

Richard, straight from the U.K.


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## Charles Lamont (May 5, 2021)

Ah! I had not noticed those cavities under the port face. I have never seen a No10 cylinder like that before, but from the photo it looks to me as though it might be intentional. The shape seems too precise and symmetrical for a blow hole. The cavities are too dark in the photo to get an idea how deep they are. Perhaps a new feature to save a little iron and make the metal thickness more uniform? What does the other side look like?


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## methuselah1 (May 7, 2021)

I made my first engine from castings, a 10V, back in '93. The crosshead guide cracked when it was reamed, but when I did a 10H, a Score and a No.9 things went smooth- my first lathe was a cheap rubbish Ross and Alexander, with only one speed- 900rpm! That and a knackered drilling machine. The lathe didn't even have graduated handwheels. Everything has been upgraded now, and I'm still left wondering how the hell I did it.

Moral of the story is it's sometimes useful to NOT know what can't be done. 
As to B.A. threads, Stuarts are the only kits I know that come with all the fasteners, and rather nice ones at that. This means you only need get 5,7 and 8BA taps, even then only two out of the set of three, and in carbon steel.  C.S. Is actually harder than H.S.S. It just can take heat, and hand taps just don't get hot anyway. The bigger holes used to be given as 1/4" Brass Gas, but anyway, an equivalent U.N. Series can be substituted. The only other male threads are on the valve and piston rods. This is where joining a club may help may help you.

The only real problem part is the con-rod- try as I might, I never did find a tutorial on the 'net! Good luck, you are off to a flying start...I

-Andrew, U.K


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## skyline1 (May 8, 2021)

Richard Hed said:


> The port holes are not the problem, it is those two BLEMs , the two very large pits or holes on the side, I don't know what you call them but apparently the cast iron didn't fill properly. If one can drill the holes to the steam and from the exhaust without touching those holes, then all is good. Even so, I would send them back if I recieved them. That is, if they are what I THIMFPK they are. I've got the same set of castings and they do not have those holes in the side. When he drills the exhaust hole, the passage way might miss those two blems, but what about the steam input passage ways? Those passages might hit those blems too. We'll probably have to wait--with baited breath, high tension, fear and loathing, excitement and on the edge of our seats.




I agree, that casting does look very suspicious. The edges of those pits are rounded and shiny not square and matt which is the characteristic appearance of a "cold shut" where the metal has not filled the mould cavity properly.

I attempted a No 10 myself some years ago when Stuarts were in the Channel Islands and there were no cavities like this in my casting. However I did have other problems. Firstly the castings were almost exactly to size.  There was no machining allowance at all in fact some were actually undersize to the drawings. The second problem was equally serious, the castings were very chilled and so hard they were unmachinable even carbide tools wouldn't touch them and with little or no machining allowance you couldn't do the usual cast iron thing of taking a very slow but deep cut to "get under the skin"

After attempting to skim the box bed, which actually cracked whilst trying to machine it I gave up and returned the whole kit.

I am sure this was not down to bad technique as I have successfully machined many C.I. castings including some that I cast myself.

Stuarts have been through several changes of ownership and site through the years and quality has been variable. They are usually quite happy to replace a defective casting F.O.C. though and I think this may be one.

Best Regards Mark


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## swarf (Jun 7, 2021)

Well this has become my practice cylinder. Finished machining except for head bolt and steam chest holes. Good practice for drilling the steam passages. Just made a 25 deg cardboard template set the casting in the vice and it worked great.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 7, 2021)

swarf said:


> Well this has become my practice cylinder. Finished machining except for head bolt and steam chest holes. Good practice for drilling the steam passages. Just made a 25 deg cardboard template set the casting in the vice and it worked great.


It looks gooder than mine.  I left a little, a few thou on each end to trim off later.  I did this on a small enco piece of crap (a poor workman always blames his tools!).  NOw I have a Grizz which is accurate and powerful.  However, I am working again, (last year I workt 5 months to get the Lathe), to be able to get a mill.  I would rather finish the flat ends of the cylinder on a mill than in the lathe as the shape is so much more amenable to the mill than lathe to cut it.


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## methuselah1 (Jun 7, 2021)

Nice work! Don't let yourself down when it comes to the cover studs... 10Vs with four or six of 'em each end look so naff! They're also a hallmark of the lazy machinist...

At a glance, your ports appear no better or worse than any other 10V casting I've seen, though.

Andrew


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## Charles Lamont (Jun 10, 2021)

Richard Hed said:


> It looks gooder than mine.  I left a little, a few thou on each end to trim off later.  I did this on a small enco piece of crap (a poor workman always blames his tools!).  NOw I have a Grizz which is accurate and powerful.  However, I am working again, (last year I workt 5 months to get the Lathe), to be able to get a mill.  I would rather finish the flat ends of the cylinder on a mill than in the lathe as the shape is so much more amenable to the mill than lathe to cut it.


One of the most important aspects of machining set-ups, rarely discussed on this forum, is knowing when you need geometrical accuracy, and how to achieve it. Here, the cylinder bore wants to be dead square to the mounting end face. This is best achieved by doing the boring and facing in one set-up in the lathe.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 10, 2021)

Charles Lamont said:


> One of the most important aspects of machining set-ups, rarely discussed on this forum, is knowing when you need geometrical accuracy, and how to achieve it. Here, the cylinder bore wants to be dead square to the mounting end face. This is best achieved by doing the boring and facing in one set-up in the lathe.


Thanx.  It's too late for that and I did the cutting wrong.  I should have bored the cylinder then mounted it on an arbor between centers but I did not do that.  Maybe I should do that now, it would be easy to do.  What do you thimpfk?


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## Steamchick (Jun 10, 2021)

Yes.  - But wait and see what others think... I am not always right! (My missus would add: because I'm a bloke!).
My preferred method is not to mount the workpiece in the chuck. 
Too late for this process: but I would machine a datum face on the cylinder (Usually the base). Mount the cylinder on this face, having clocked the surface you are mounting onto as true (perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the cutter) - within the accuracy of your clock... Then pass a rotating cutter through the bore. 
As this is the preferred way in Modern-day industry, to get a really good round and straight bore (NO TAPER), and how I was taught as a teenager - by a machinist who machined cylinders for aero-engines during WW2.... Not such an easy set-up as bunging a cylinder into a 3-jaw chuck then passing a boring bar through... but on 3 of 4 of my lathes (the first 3) that gave me tapered bores that needed re-boring in the mill-drill. (Not had to bore a cylinder like that on my current Chinese lathe).
Hope this helps?
K2


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## Jasonb (Jun 10, 2021)

Arbor would be your best option to square up the faces to the finished bore.

As for if you were starting from scratch on a little cylinder like the 10V I would tend to hold in the 4-jaw and bore then face as I get a reasonably parallel bore but if it were a larger and longer cylinder would think about mounting on the lathe's cross slide and using a between ctrs boring bar. really comes down to what suits the job in hand and assumes you have a lathe with a slotted cross slide that is easy to bolt work down to.

I don't tend to use the mill for boring cylinders unless the part can't be swung in the lathe as I don't find it as rigid and with no power feed in Z harder to keep a nice constant feed.


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## Charles Lamont (Jun 10, 2021)

Between centres if you like, but a stub mandrel held in a chuck and turned in situ may be easier.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 10, 2021)

Steamchick said:


> Yes.  - But wait and see what others think... I am not always right! (My missus would add: because I'm a bloke!).
> My preferred method is not to mount the workpiece in the chuck.
> Too late for this process: but I would machine a datum face on the cylinder (Usually the base). Mount the cylinder on this face, having clocked the surface you are mounting onto as true (perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the cutter) - within the accuracy of your clock... Then pass a rotating cutter through the bore.
> As this is the preferred way in Modern-day industry, to get a really good round and straight bore (NO TAPER), and how I was taught as a teenager - by a machinist who machined cylinders for aero-engines during WW2.... Not such an easy set-up as bunging a cylinder into a 3-jaw chuck then passing a boring bar through... but on 3 of 4 of my lathes (the first 3) that gave me tapered bores that needed re-boring in the mill-drill. (Not had to bore a cylinder like that on my current Chinese lathe).
> ...


That's basically what I did but in a 4 jaw on the little (crappy enco, a poor machinist blames his tools, like me, allways remember that!) lathe.  I had difficulty getting the ends square to the bore so I left about 15 thou in order to fix it later.  But now I have the Big Grizz and will be able to easily fix that.  Actually I forgot about the solution because I have been working on other engines.  Thanx for the advice.

Excuse me, actually one end was quite squared up, it was the second end, after removing from the chuck that I had the difficulty with.  With all this good advice, it will be a snap, I thimpfk, to fix it.  Thanx to all!


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## Richard Hed (Jun 10, 2021)

Jasonb said:


> Arbor would be your best option to square up the faces to the finished bore.
> 
> As for if you were starting from scratch on a little cylinder like the 10V I would tend to hold in the 4-jaw and bore then face as I get a reasonably parallel bore but if it were a larger and longer cylinder would think about mounting on the lathe's cross slide and using a between ctrs boring bar. really comes down to what suits the job in hand and assumes you have a lathe with a slotted cross slide that is easy to bolt work down to.
> 
> I don't tend to use the mill for boring cylinders unless the part can't be swung in the lathe as I don't find it as rigid and with no power feed in Z harder to keep a nice constant feed.


It's not the bore that is bad, That was good, it's the ends that are a tiny bit off, not quite perpendicular.  Mounted in an expendible arbor between centers is my plan, that way I can touch up the ends and get them square.  That's all I need. That's exactly what the cylinders are:  A Stuart 10V, and a 10?H.  What does the 10 stand for?

My little enco has mounting slots on the cross slide, but the enco is a piece of crap, jumps around and flexes too much.  (and yes, I've taken out all the slack I could).  The Grizz, disappointingly does NOT have the much loved mounting slots.  I was considering making some "artificial" slots, that is, a plate that I could mount on the cross slide with some appropriate bolts and slots.  What do you thimpfk?  Is that a good idea?


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## Jasonb (Jun 10, 2021)

It's just an engine number, same as the likes of PM Research use. The Stuarts tend to get smaller as the number goes up. 

Engines with an A suffix are the more recent ones with A frame trunk guides, earlier ones had a single guide in the cast standard and a diagonal brace much like the current No1

This site gives a good description of all the engines that Stuarts have produced over the years.








						STUARTTURNERSTEAM
					

The best website for Stuart Turner Steam Engines




					stuartturnersteam.com
				




As I said for a cylinder this size I would do it in the chuck so not really worth making a boring table, that's assuming you have a mill for doing other parts.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 10, 2021)

Charles Lamont said:


> Between centres if you like, but a stub mandrel held in a chuck and turned in situ may be easier.


Thanx for that, yes easier, and with this new Grizz (have only had it since January), it should be a snap either way.  Thing is, I totally have put the 10v and 10H cylinders on hold since I am doing most of my work on other projects including _making _much needed tools for the Grizz including ER40 (badly made, will have to redo it sometime) ER50 (still expensive chucks, waiting for price drop), ER 32, radius turner (current NEED).  Can you suggest anything else that I would not need a mill for?  I do not have a mill and am working the pea, bean and corn harvest this summer, currently working, the ideal mill would be like 
*Grizzly G0757 - 9" x 39" 2 HP Horizontal/Vertical Mill with Power Feed.*

That is a very nice mill but quite costly too.  My son, who wants to make guns, is going to help on the cost, so that will help a lot.  Also, I have my eye on a much cheaper one in Walla Walla which is a two headed "copy lathe".  It has two heads and a follower.  Well, I won't be doing much copying so the follower is the wrong thing.  I would have to remove it and put a traversing handle (hopefully with powerfeed).  This could be expensive.  Generally, I believe, the two heads would not be needed togetehr.  However, there are some odd things about this two-headed monster (a Bridgeport) that are strangely nice:  the heads can be moved individually left and right on a sliding mechanism.  If one is making more than one identical object, one could do them in tandem.  Strange for a hobby mill.

There was a nice Bridgeport in New Joisey for 2700$ but that would cost me at least another 1000$ for transportation.  Not going to happen.  There are quite a few actually but most are too far away to consider seriously.  The Grizzly G0757 is so attractive, even at that high price that when I drop this or that lower priced machine, that I always go back to it.  A horizontal section is always useful, I had one, a cincinatti (1964) that had a horizontal "attachment" (don't know what it's called, capability?)  But that was STOLEN!  (Please don't ask, it's too long a story and too disheartening to tell.)  Since you are in UK, you most likely could not advise what to buy from your country.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 10, 2021)

Jasonb said:


> It's just an engine number, same as the likes of PM Research use. The Stuarts tend to get smaller as the number goes up.
> 
> Engines with an A suffix are the more recent ones with A frame trunk guides, earlier ones had a single guide in the cast standard and a diagonal brace much like the current No1
> 
> ...


No mill--that's a lot of the problem.  But see my other post on working this summeer.


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## Jasonb (Jun 10, 2021)

Should not really stop you, many models have been made on just a lathe back in the day. Did my Minnie traction engine on just a lathe.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 10, 2021)

Jasonb said:


> Should not really stop you, many models have been made on just a lathe back in the day. Did my Minnie traction engine on just a lathe.


It doesn't stop me, but it certainly slows me down.  And since I am determined to get a mill this summer, I am just doing (in spare time, as I now have a job) the easy stuff on a lathe.  Will save the other stuff for a mill which will be easy on the mill.


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## Steamchick (Jun 10, 2021)

Hi Richard,
I would be tempted to tap a few holes and bolt-on a factory mad t-slotted plate. When I find one I'll probably do that to my lathe, as at the moment I just have one hole I made to bolt-down a back-tool-post for a parting tool.
K2


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## Richard Hed (Jun 10, 2021)

Steamchick said:


> Hi Richard,
> I would be tempted to tap a few holes and bolt-on a factory mad t-slotted plate. When I find one I'll probably do that to my lathe, as at the moment I just have one hole I made to bolt-down a back-tool-post for a parting tool.
> K2


I have lots of room behind the cross slide that I could do that and leave the slide alone.  I will most likely wait on that till the warrantee is over so there is no misunderstandings lest something fail.  Where might one find a factory made t-slotted plate?


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## Jasonb (Jun 10, 2021)

Try putting "tee slotted table" into google. several of the UK suppliers to the hobby do them so expect you should have some over there too


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## Steamchick (Jun 11, 2021)

Just checked (Googled!) and found this. Great deals from RDGTOOLS ONLINE LTD | eBay Shops
But years ago I saw a flat plate at a show, and didn't buy it. I thought it was too big, and wasn't sure I would ever need it... These various tee-slotted fixture are more suited to mounting for milling, but depending on the size of your lathe may be a useful addition?
Actually, I have a small vertical slide - that mounts with a single bolt - so I can use that mounted either instead of the tool post( a bit high ) or tap a hole on the cross slide where I need it, if the "back-tool-post" tapped hole is in the wrong place. And I have various angle plates that have been used similarly on various previous lathes...
Lots of ideas?


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## Steamchick (Jun 11, 2021)

Maybe?
*New Tee Slotted Milling Table - 4" x 5" | Chronos Engineering Supplies*
New Tee Slotted Milling Table - 4" x 5" from Chronos Engineering Supplies. Free UK delivery and great worldwide rates.




www.chronos.ltd.uk
A bit limited here in Blighty!
K


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## Richard Hed (Jun 11, 2021)

Steamchick said:


> Maybe?
> *New Tee Slotted Milling Table - 4" x 5" | Chronos Engineering Supplies*
> New Tee Slotted Milling Table - 4" x 5" from Chronos Engineering Supplies. Free UK delivery and great worldwide rates.
> 
> ...


I went to their website--it really sux.  Not only tht, I thimpfk it is for UK.  The cost of shipping to US is probably high.


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## swarf (Jun 27, 2021)

Let's give this another shot. Bore turned out good. Cylinder ends machine true and equally. Getting ready to lay out lines to machine port face.


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## Steamchick (Jun 28, 2021)

Port spacing and land between is critical. "Measure twice and machine once".
K2


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## swarf (Jun 28, 2021)

Progressing...


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## swarf (Mar 26, 2022)

Finally been able to get out to the garage and destroy some metal.
Working on the rear cylinder cover.
1st mistake, cut off the cover before I had drilled and tapped for the gland nut. Realized I could get away with it luckily. 
2nd mistake drilled to a depth of 5/16 when it should have been 9/32, then walked away. 
Stupid mistakes but good experience and am having fun.


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## ShopShoe (Mar 28, 2022)

Richard,

You could probably get started with a smaller mill to make some of your smaller pieces. That approach would also give you a chance to develop your milling skills and investigate different tooling options and techniques. 

I agree that that may not be the best way to do it, but I think you would enjoy making faster progress on your projects if you had a mill.

In my own case, I waited way too long to buy even a lathe because I wanted to start with a large machine. Finally, I realized most of the things I wanted to make to support my other hobbies were within the work envelope of a small lathe so went ahead that way. Same with a mill: I would like a Bridgeport, but most of what I make is smaller.

Don't forget the money you'll spend on tooling and accessories: smaller machines make it easier to spend money on experimentation.

And of course, even if you got a large mill, you might want a smaller one alongside it eventually anyway.

--ShopShoe


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## Richard Hed (Mar 28, 2022)

ShopShoe said:


> Richard,
> 
> You could probably get started with a smaller mill to make some of your smaller pieces. That approach would also give you a chance to develop your milling skills and investigate different tooling options and techniques.
> 
> ...


Thanx for the advice.  I have tghe mill but I still need to set it up.  Unfortunaely, I am in the Philippines at the moment and cannot do anything with it.


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## swarf (Aug 7, 2022)

Have been on this project on and off and am currently breaking in the main bearings.
Turns absolutely  until you snug up the nuts and then the crank was pretty hard to turn.
I started to break it in on the lathe and even with a good supply of oil the mains got real warm.
Ran a reamer through the mains it helped but still somewhat stiff.
Thinking I should have drilled and reamed with the bearings in place, in any case it looks like it should wear in with time.


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## Steamchick (Aug 8, 2022)

Hi "swarf". Just a reminder... so you do not drift into bad practices..
This thread is all about Model Engine Machining. So really you should machine precisely to the right size, then instead of the approach of "a tight fit and wear it in"  you start at "the right fit - first time" - which curiously lasts much longer than the "worn-in" method. - Which is why "Industry" has spent a small fortune working to finer and finer tolerances so your car (and other modern "necessities") has become relatively cheap, Incredibly durable, and maintenance free for a long-enough life.
When I started (around 1966) in a machine shop doing re-bores and crank regrinds, the NORM was for every petrol engine to need new rings or small re-bore after 10,000miles, but a larger re-bore if it had been run for 20,000 miles... Cranks lasted 20.000 miles before a re0-grind to first oversize. - NOW it is 150~250.000 miles before any sign of significant wear on the bore, and more of  wear on the crank.
All this achieved by making parts true, and closely fitted "as new". 
SO I suggest that having reamed the bearings all in one in-line, there is actually a difference between the size of reamer and crankshaft main bearing journals. - Or possibly some misalignment of the crank main journals. (because the set-up can distort the crank.. leading to journals machined on that set-up to become out-of-alignment when the set-up stresses are released).
If you reset the crank in the lathe, between centres, then put a DTI along the journals, you may spot the "bend" of the crank between journals. BUT you will need to pack between the flanks of the crank in order to NOT distort the crank when you fit the tailstock centre. use Engineer's blue (of felt-pen marker) on the journals and recheck the "touch" point of the lathe tool on all journals. It should be at EXACTLY the same setting on the lathe dials. Then when you are absolutely sure that the crank is NOT distorted in any way by the set-up, just "touch" any high-spots of the crank main journals with the tool while the part is rotating, to "true" the journals to a sizes that is less than 0.001" than the micrometer measures the reamer you have used. - Remember if it is a tapered reamer, the first 1/3rd will be under sized as it has a taper for starting the reaming process. Making a true and straight shaft the fits the true and straight bearings (reamed in line) is the key to a smooth running - from NEW. The adage "Wearing -in" is truly "ACCELERATED WEARING-OUT" the engine, I.E. giving the finished engine  a short life from a worn-out condition. It is really a bodge to overcome deficiencies in the manufacturing process.
However, there is a process of "LAPPING" - This uses VERY fine abrasives, to "grind-off" the peaks of machines surfaces, - but not remove more than the amount necessary to make a finer finish than the machining tool can do. This is best described by the HONING process on bores, where a precision set grind-stone, of grit much finer than the cutting pitch of the tool that was used for boring, is used to take off the "Peaks" from the machined surface to leave 50 or so as a rubbing" surface, and 50% or so for "storage of oil". (Not exactly true but the simplest explanations are often not quite true).




I hope this sketch helps?
As long as the crank measures "true" (straight and parallel at the journals with the DTI) and "SIZE" (same as the reamer/bearings) then you can remove tightness by linishing "high-spots" where the bearings can wipe-off the marking blue, when assembled and rotated.. But check it is crank or bearings that need the linishing! Use the shank of a drill, reamer, length of silver-steel or equivalent test bar, at the size of the crank journal, fit it into the bearings, - duly tightened - and rotate to the bearings, and rotate to see if the bearings are "wiped" all the way around and all the way along. If you get a line "top and bottom" of the split bearings, this indicates a bearing that is not round when clamped. If you get a wiped circle at one end or the other of the bearing, then it suggests the bearings are tapered. If you get odd, diagonally opposite wiped zones, the bearings are not aligned. Only when the bearings are good with a test piece should you look to the crank. By "Wiped" I mean the Engineers' Blue has either transferred form one surface to another, or been wiped off a surface, indicating the contact points between shaft and bearing surfaces, within the bearing.
Equally, on the test shaft - and again with the crank, - the contact point should tell the same story.
Depending of "shaft journal size" and "bearing size" you can decide if the shaft needs reducing (linishing) a tiny amount to fit the reamed bearings, or if the alignment of the bearings needs addressing. (Re-set to a true test-bar, not the reamer's cutting edges, or crank).
I hope some of this helps?
Ask where you want more explanation, as there are many more capable than I who can advise or correct any errors I have made. (I learn as much as I teach!).
Cheers!
K2
On the crank, the


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## AndrewW (Aug 8, 2022)

swarf said:


> Have been on this project on and off and am currently breaking in the main bearings.
> Turns absolutely  until you snug up the nuts and then the crank was pretty hard to turn.
> I started to break it in on the lathe and even with a good supply of oil the mains got real warm.
> Ran a reamer through the mains it helped but still somewhat stiff.
> Thinking I should have drilled and reamed with the bearings in place, in any case it looks like it should wear in with time.


Hi swarf. As I recall I experienced a similar issue. The base of the bearings only need to be a fraction of a thou out to cause the crank to run tight when the nuts are tightened. I think I placed a shim (kitchen foil) under one of the bearings to get the crank to run freely. 
Experiment and give it a try.
Cheers
Andrew


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## swarf (Aug 8, 2022)

Steamchick and Andrew
Lol the damage is done. Talk about eating a slice of humble pie.
Need new bearing material and pretty sure my crank is bent somewhat and the bearings are worn.
To save some time and money what 9/32" round stock could I use?


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## swarf (Aug 8, 2022)

Steamchick said:


> Hi "swarf". Just a reminder... so you do not drift into bad practices..
> This thread is all about Model Engine Machining. So really you should machine precisely to the right size, then instead of the approach of "a tight fit and wear it in"  you start at "the right fit - first time" - which curiously lasts much longer than the "worn-in" method. - Which is why "Industry" has spent a small fortune working to finer and finer tolerances so your car (and other modern "necessities") has become relatively cheap, Incredibly durable, and maintenance free for a long-enough life.
> When I started (around 1966) in a machine shop doing re-bores and crank regrinds, the NORM was for every petrol engine to need new rings or small re-bore after 10,000miles, but a larger re-bore if it had been run for 20,000 miles... Cranks lasted 20.000 miles before a re0-grind to first oversize. - NOW it is 150~250.000 miles before any sign of significant wear on the bore, and more of  wear on the crank.
> All this achieved by making parts true, and closely fitted "as new".
> ...





AndrewW said:


> Hi swarf. As I recall I experienced a similar issue. The base of the bearings only need to be a fraction of a thou out to cause the crank to run tight when the nuts are tightened. I think I placed a shim (kitchen foil) under one of the bearings to get the crank to run freely.
> Experiment and give it a try.
> Cheers
> Andrew


Thanks for all your help. 
Steamchick sometimes I get to the point where I've been working on something long enuf and then start taking short cuts and want to get to the next step.
So I chucked a hand reamer in the drill press held the part and
ran it through a couple times.
Then bolted everything back together and it was still stiff, better but stiff.
Proceeded to chuck the assembly in the lathe to further break in the bearings. The friction was considerably less with no play in the shaft. However the oil I put in the journals was flying out on the crank as fast as I put it in.
Conclusion, as you mentioned Steamchick wearing in is also wearing out. 
The bearing will suffice but it's not right, so I ordered new bearing material and round stock for the center crank.
Andrew, 
as you mentioned I had some shim stock in my garage. The thinnest I had was 3 thou. Unfortunately to thick.
I imagine aluminum foil would be thinner, but as mentioned the damage was done. Oil runs through the bearing and even though there's no appreciable play in the shaft, it will only be a matter of time before it starts rattling like a pneumatic drill.
Love your builds keep up the good work.
Humble  has been eaten and will start over.
Thanks both of you.


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## AndrewW (Aug 8, 2022)

swarf said:


> Thanks for all your help.
> Steamchick sometimes I get to the point where I've been working on something long enuf and then start taking short cuts and want to get to the next step.
> So I chucked a hand reamer in the drill press held the part and
> ran it through a couple times.
> ...


Hi swarf. Don't beat yourself up over it. It's all about learning and the best way to learn is from making mistakes. Having moved on to making engines from bar stock, I would explore making the crankshaft bearings from mild steel bar and reaming them to fit some home made bronze bushes. It shouldn't be that difficult and if you make a mistake you can just start again with some readily available material. Get some 9/32" dia mild steel and set the bearings up using that initially. 
It's a fantastic and rewarding hobby and it's amazing what can be achieved in the home workshop. Enjoy the journey!
Cheers
Andrew


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## AndrewW (Aug 8, 2022)

swarf said:


> Thanks for all your help.
> Steamchick sometimes I get to the point where I've been working on something long enuf and then start taking short cuts and want to get to the next step.
> So I chucked a hand reamer in the drill press held the part and
> ran it through a couple times.
> ...


Another thought.... Bolt your existing bearing blocks together, side by side, onto a piece of flat bar. Drill and ream both at the same time to take a piece of bronze, making sure the bar is exactly perpendicular with the mill spindle. Use loctite 638 to secure the bronze. Drill and ream the bronze to take the crankshaft. Split with a hacksaw and tidy up with a file.
Cheers
Andrew


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## Steamchick (Aug 9, 2022)

Hi Swarf, I fully endorse Andrew: don't beat yourself up about it... Just say "OK, I have learned that lesson, now lets see if the guys that have been there and done the same, have better ideas that really work. And if they do work, we are the lucky ones for making the right suggestions!
"There are more ways of killing a pig, than you could imagine, and some die naturally" !! The wearing-in, wearing-out game can work... but more likely to lead to shorter life. Well done for trying.
Incidentally, I run lots of peoples' models at shows, and an odd few complain because their beautiful models are all oily afterwards,... But I ask before I run them, and do my best to not wear them out.  I won't run without oil, and it does go everywhere! No-one has oil seals on such small engines. Just keep a good (cotton) rag to hand, and wear overalls when running, not "smart" clothes.
K2


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## Drawfiler (Aug 10, 2022)

Swarf,
The first engine I attempted was a 10 v, this was while I was at school, the only kit we had in the workshop was a Myford Ml7 and old Drummond and a drilling machine, all milling and boring was done in the lathe either with the casting in a 4jaw, on a face plate or clamped to the cross slide. Take your time, think the setups through and enjoy yourself.


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## swarf (Aug 10, 2022)

Figured out the problem. I thought for sure it was the bearings or the crank.
400 wet or dry and a piece of polished granite is a great thing to have.
As it turns out there was 1 thou difference on the bearing pillars on the sole plate on either side.
It was the last thing I thought of in my list of potential problems.
Took a chance and finely ground all machined surfaces on the sole plate with 400 wet or dry and some cutting oil.
Low and behold everything turns as it should.
This is an awesome hobby.
My mill/drill (more drill than mill) is a round column machine and there are only 4 cap screws to hold the column to the machine base. I managed to shim the worse of axis but the other isn't perfect. May have to shim my mill vice to compensate.
It's not a great machine but it's better than none at all.
The thing has grown on me and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Got it brand new from a guy who used it once for 500$ couple years ago.
It does what I need it to do and that's all I'm worried about.


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## AndrewW (Aug 11, 2022)

swarf said:


> Figured out the problem. I thought for sure it was the bearings or the crank.
> 400 wet or dry and a piece of polished granite is a great thing to have.
> As it turns out there was 1 thou difference on the bearing pillars on the sole plate on either side.
> It was the last thing I thought of in my list of potential problems.
> ...


Result!


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## Apprentice707 (Aug 11, 2022)

These 10 V & H Stuart Engines can't be rushed, I received a set of castings from my parents for my 12th birthday (cost 12 shillings and 6 pence)  and I finished it when I reached 64. It traveled with me to 3 continents and was on my New Years' resolution list every year.  Stick with it guys it is worth it!!

B


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## packrat (Aug 11, 2022)

Yes, it took me 3 years to finish a Stuart beam engine, just working on it when I had some time...


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## awake (Aug 11, 2022)

Steamchick said:


> "There are more ways of killing a pig, than you could imagine, and some die naturally" !!



I hadn't heard that quote before - love it!



Steamchick said:


> Incidentally, I run lots of peoples' models at shows, and an odd few complain because their beautiful models are all oily afterwards,...



I think the proper response: "Well oil be damned!" (Hint: the pun won't register in print; you have to think about how it would sound, especially with a bit of a Cockney accent.)


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## swarf (Aug 11, 2022)




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## Richard Hed (Aug 11, 2022)

I'm still working on a Coles/Ray Corliss after 40 years or so.  Made a bit of progress, however, milling parts is difficult.  Turning is fine but I managed to get a mill, but have a hard time getting the $$ for a VFD for the 3 phase motor.  Will manage it this summer however.  (What summer?  it's still very cool here in Moses Lake.)


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## Bentwings (Aug 15, 2022)

Steamchick said:


> Hi Swarf, I fully endorse Andrew: don't beat yourself up about it... Just say "OK, I have learned that lesson, now lets see if the guys that have been there and done the same, have better ideas that really work. And if they do work, we are the lucky ones for making the right suggestions!
> "There are more ways of killing a pig, than you could imagine, and some die naturally" !! The wearing-in, wearing-out game can work... but more likely to lead to shorter life. Well done for trying.
> Incidentally, I run lots of peoples' models at shows, and an odd few complain because their beautiful models are all oily afterwards,... But I ask before I run them, and do my best to not wear them out.  I won't run without oil, and it does go everywhere! No-one has oil seals on such small engines. Just keep a good (cotton) rag to hand, and wear overalls when running, not "smart" clothes.
> K2


I had a big twin big block Chevy powered boat. I rarely wear shorts . One day it was really hot out on the water so I cut the  legs off an old pair of jeans and saved them for rags.  It happened to be oil and filter change time add dual filters every where and new bilge pump install getting below decks in a big inboard boat is quite different than outboards the transmissionsvarevwaybundervthe deck like being in a dub . It’s not cool below decks even with the engines cooled down . By the end of the day I looked like a real grease monkey and had the disposition of a gorilla ! I had 40+ gallons of oil 8 filters and misc other junk to recycle  my little el Camino was near overload.  They woul not take the filters as I didn’t buy them there so I had a special trip to the auto parts store to  recycle them . With all the fluid change I didn’t get any in the bilges . They get algae and mold so I had to use a special bio cleaner for them .  It nice when you are all done with a nasty job. It.  Lived n the boat for two years  my dock mate had a bigger boat with twin cat diesels. I YHINK each had around 10 gallon engine oil dumps and twice the size filters I had . He had an automatic oil changer. He just rolled a 55 gallon barrel out on the dock an stuck the drain hose in it then turned the auto drain pump on   So less of a mess  but we had to use my one ton dusky to haul his recycle stuff I think his air filters were over$100 each 4 of them his oil filters were huge too. 

Big boats are fun but lots of work . Another dock mate had outboards  he managed to forgectonputvyhecdrain plug in and nearly sank his boat .  Here if you trailer boats you have to drain the bilges when you take them out prevent transferring unwanted marine creatures and plants  from waterways .  It’s common to forget the drain plug


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## Steamchick (Aug 16, 2022)

Awake: I can't imagine a Cockney accent by someone from North Carolina... Except maybe the Dick Van Dyke portrayal of a Cockney chimney sweep in the 1960s Mary Poppins? I think the English version of the quote is "Whale oil be dammed!" - A Victorian phrase, before "Well oil" was commercially available?
Sorry, I'm pulling your leg. Just playing with puns... 
Now "Darn my picters!": Did anyone expect Mary Poppins to appear in this engineering thread? - Sorry if too far off beam.
K2


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## swarf (Aug 16, 2022)




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## methuselah1 (Aug 16, 2022)

You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!


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