# Trout Learns A Thing or Two



## Troutsqueezer (Apr 6, 2010)

Greetings Folks,

I am nearly finished with my Trout's Twin engine and I plan to post the rest of the build soon in the thread I have going for that but today I was thinking about some of the things I have learned with this build, being only the second engine I have machined. The first engine was so simple (Elmer's #25) I consider it to have served mostly as an introduction to the mill, lathe, the folks on this forum and the tool suppliers, all of which are now a part of my psyche. 

Keeping in mind my methods aren't necessarily going to be considered the proper way, they nonetheless worked for me this time around. I may have to use different methods on future projects, but I'll get there when I get there.

*Key learnings gained from my second engine build (Elmer's #44 Open Column Twin), real or imagined, in no particular order:*

 Drilling holes without DRO's: After scribing lines & mounting the part on the mill, I learned to eyeball a center drill bit (with magnifier) over the intersecting scribes then lightly tap the drill bit to the surface, observe the tiny dot I've just made then tweak the table to zero in. 

 It's hard to mill out the inside corners of a rectangular opening on something like a steam chest without getting corner bulges from overshooting the table movement. I offset the corner holes then on the last pass milled to the actual corner locations.

 Its too easy to run a tap crooked through thin metal especially. I resorted to using a tapping block or mill/drill spindle as a guide or the tailstock on my lathe. 

 I often wish for thin parallels. Those thick ones get in the way frequently when drilling holes close to part edges. 

 It's really handy to have at least two pairs of digital calipers. One 4 inch and one six inch. Three would be even nicer.

 Dull or broken small drill bits make good pins for linkages.

 There is such a thing as too much compound on the buffing wheel. Put just a dab on the wheel while its turning and put it on frequently.

 Having a sink next to the work bench was the best addition to my shop ever, for many reasons.

 Sharp edges on newly-milled parts can easily split your skin open in between the finger print creases. This really sucks as compared to a cross-grain skin cut.

 Using a hacksaw blade as a parting tool works pretty good if you don't need to position the cut precisely. 

 Red Loctite sets up faster than you might think. 

 Polishing every single part on your engine is too much work. 

 Miniature end mills work just as well in a drill chuck. Saves having to swap out the chuck with an end mill holder every time. 

 Hammering/smashing round pieces of 45% silver solder into flat pieces makes it melt faster .

 It's difficult to clamp work directly to a 4" rotary table. You'd better have a smaller clamping set if you plan on it. 

 You can't drill into music wire so don't try using that for your crankshaft if you need to put pins in it.

 Rough cutting on your metal chop saw for model engine parts isn't practical. It's like measuring with a micrometer, marking with chalk and cutting with an axe. If you don't have a horizontal band saw, even an angle grinder with a thin cutting disk is better for roughing out parts.

 Fly cutters give you big bang for the buck. They don't cost much but are worth their weight in gold when it comes to reducing the thickness of a good-sized piece of metal. 

 When it comes to finding out which part is making the mechanism stick, Occam's Razor principle (the simplest solution is usually the correct one) almost never applies to model engine making. In other words, the hole you open up to relieve stress is not what was causing the stress. 

 Converting the X2 mill to belt drive is well worth the money. 

 Dykem works much better than blue Sharpies.

 Lines scribed in Dykem show up much better with the light cast at a sharp angle on the mill. 

 Buffing wheels can throw your part faster than a speeding bullet. If I dare the buffing wheel to grab the part I am holding and hold it extra tight, I can usually win the contest, but not always. It's when I don't dare the machine and think about something else that it wins. 

 The $24 spent for a floor mat to stand on while working at the lathe is worth twice as much.  

 A shop with music makes better engines. Classical and Jazz make the best engines. Followed by Country, New Age and Rock, in that order. Rap and bagpipes is not music, I don't care what anybody says, but accordion is. 

 Putting a DI on my mini lathe tailstock was worth the $11 at HF and worth the 15 minutes it took to install. 

 Installing a plastic cover over the apron gears on my mini lathe was damn good advice.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 6, 2010)

>  I often wish for thin parallels. Those thick ones get in the way frequently when drilling holes close to part edges.


Steel packing strap can usualy be had for free. just cut 4" or 6"long pieces as needed.
Tin


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Apr 6, 2010)

That was a wonderful list Trout...and helpful too.

I can only disagree with one item.




			
				Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

>  A shop with music makes better engines. Classical and Jazz make the best engines. Followed by Country, New Age and Rock, in that order. Rap and bagpipes is not music, I don't care what anybody says, but accordion is.



Bagpipes is music.

I'd argue about the order too...but it changes day-to-day for me. ;D


----------



## mklotz (Apr 6, 2010)

Q: Why do bagpipers walk when they play?
A: To get away from the noise.

Q. What do you call bagpiper with half a brain?
A. Gifted. 

Q. Why do bagpipers leave their cases on their dashboards?
A. So they can park in handicapped zones. 

Q. What did the bagpiper get on his I.Q. test?
A. Drool. 

Q. How can you tell if a bagpipe is out of tune?
A. Someone is blowing into it.


----------



## Cedge (Apr 6, 2010)

Zee
Dunno.... I thought I'd found a decent bagpipe station on my shop radio until my cat bit me..... to get me off his tail. (grin)

Trout.... excellent list. I wish I'd posted something similar back when I got started. It would make an interesting read today.

One of mine would have mentioned keeping a old fashioned Stipick pencil nearby, to stop most blood flow problems....LOL It didn't take long to make deburring a solid habit.

Steve


----------



## Deanofid (Apr 6, 2010)

Quite a list, Trout. You must have been making good notes as you went. 
What a good idea!




			
				Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> Keeping in mind my methods aren't necessarily going to be considered the proper way, they nonetheless worked for me this time around.


A good point. 
Usually, if it's safe, and it presents you with the desired result, it was _one_ of the right ways to do it.
Some of the correct ways take longer than others. If you knew all the best ways, you would already be a machinist.





> Drilling holes without DRO's.... part on the mill...


All milling machines have read outs. The dials. Not direct, but if you want accurate hole locations without going by "minute of eyeball", use your dials, and an edge finder. Find two edges and use your wonderful mill table dials. They're great. Really!
: )





> Dull or broken small drill bits make good pins for linkages.


Make good cutters, too.





> Classical and Jazz make the best engines.


You now what they say; If it sounds like music, it ain't Jazz.



Thanks for the neat list, Mr. squeezer.

Dean


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Apr 6, 2010)

Critics.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Apr 6, 2010)

Zee---I'm with you. I love bagpipes. Perhaps some ancestral ativistic thing, but bagpipes make me break out in goosebumps---in a good way!!! Trout---Neat list. I've figured most of those things out in the last two years since I bought my lathe and mill.---Brian


----------



## skeeter (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi, Trout . nice list of things you have learned. The way I pick up scribe lines if my tolerence will allow it . I have made some spuds these are pointed and I have made various sizes and lengths. take a piece of drill rod and turn a point on the end harden it and spin in lathe and stone it to a sharp point. also you can use what is called a wiggler these work excellent also. I also use edge finders as well. Here is a source for some great tools they are good people to do deal with. Shars Tool company. The phone # is 800-718-3544 the website is www.shars.com
My buddy has a set of read outs that he put on his mill about 6 years ago . They are great and still going strong. they are on page 59 of the new catalog. hope this helps skeeter ;D


----------



## Troutsqueezer (Apr 7, 2010)

Thanks to all for the compliments. The way I came up with this list today was by looking at each piece on the plans I used for the build and remembering what the various problems challenges were for that piece of the engine. Some parts had good memories, others...not so much. 

As for bagpipes, I do have to wonder....why do they play bagpipes mostly for dead people? :big:



			
				Deanofid  said:
			
		

> ...use your dials, and an edge finder.
> 
> You now what they say; If it sounds like music, it ain't Jazz.



Dean: I do have several edge finders and do use them but sometimes I get lazy and sometimes I lose the reference setting and then have to find the edge all over again. Mostly lazy...

Jazz is a state of mind, doesn't fit into those three, five, seven progressions, ya know whutta mean? ;D

Zee: I know what you mean, the order of the list is subject to change. For example, country music might go to the head of the list depending on the amount of alcohol in my system at the time. Not that I would ever run my machines in that state but yes, I can see myself out in the shed, running my stable of engines, cranking up the music while drinking and whooping and hollering. Oh yes.....those times are comin'...

Tin: I'll be on the lookout for a place to nab some steel strapping. Hard to come by that kind of thing when you are cubicle-bound at work like I am. But when the opportunity presents itself, I'll strike. 

Marv: Who knew there were that many bagpipes jokes floating around out there? Wondering how those stuck in your brain...  ;D

Cedge: I've heard about using Super Glue to close the gap. I even looked around and found a never-opened tube of it but alas, it never lasts for long, even unopened. Hard as a rock. 

Brian: From your posts, you've figured out a lot more things since, which I constantly pick up on. 

skeeter: I've got my eye on those Grizzly DRO's that sell for twenty-something bucks that black85vette has been posting about. When they come out with the longer version I plan to buy for all three axis.


----------



## capjak (Apr 7, 2010)

I'd like to add that no matter how many screws you have in your assortment, you always need one more and you discover that just after the Ace Hardware closes for the night.

And, be sure to wipe the soles of your shoes well as you leave the shop. Your wife won't appreciate the shiny flecks embedded in the family room carpet.

Jack


----------



## BigBore (Apr 7, 2010)

Great list Troutster! Seriously, that is copy/pasted into my helpful hints file already. Kudos..and a "K" for that Thm:

$24 mat is worth twice that much??? I've got a slightly used one that I'll let go of, for $36 (of course S&H not included)

You are right-on about the Bag pipes/dead people thing! I used to love the Pipes but now, all I think of is _"Amazing Grace_" and funerals. I also like the Sitar and the Didgeridoo. The first time I see one of those used at a funeral I'm going to lose it! :redface2: Of course, somehow I can't imagine _"Amazing Grace"_ on a Didgeridoo. scratch.gif

capjak - - You got that right. My wife says the epitaph on my tombstone will read "Here's lies a Woodworker.........Clamps For Sale" You can never have too many clamps.

Ed


----------



## Maryak (Apr 7, 2010)

There is nothing quite like the skirl of the, (steam, drain, water, gas, sewerage, oil, fuel and bag) pipes. It's so mind boggling it's hard to tell which is which. : Unless you add water hammer to simulate the drums.

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## SAM in LA (Apr 7, 2010)

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> As for bagpipes, I do have to wonder....why do they play bagpipes mostly for dead people? :big:



That's easy to answer.
It is the only time that the guest of honor won't complain about the noise.
 Rof} Rof} Rof}


----------



## Troutsqueezer (Jun 6, 2010)

I learned something new today.

Me and steel (steel and I?) have never gotten along when it comes to machining it. I always assumed it was mostly because my equipment is of a smaller size. Get your mind out of the gutter! :big: That, plus the fact I'm a total newbie to machining in general. As it happens, whenever I go to turn a steel part on the lathe I haven't been able to get the tool to take much of a bite out of the spinning metal. Any success I've had to date has been with my carbide bits but even those were performing very poorly.

I was in the process of making a simple crankshaft today and it was not going well. My intention was to call it a day and query this forum for some suggestions as to what I could do to get my lathe to cut steel with some modicum of efficiency. 

Before I wrapped it up I decided to apply some lubricant I had just purchased for thread cutting. This is the thicker type of lubricant, not as runny as some. Well, what do you know? The tool bit immediately began cutting nice curly cues the full length of the cut! Live and learn...lube steel when you machine it. Doh!

-Trout


----------



## justlesh (Jun 6, 2010)

Chips in the carpet makes an impression on me, usually about the size of a hand  Recently after a real long day in my shop I decided I should not only kick my shoes off but peeled down to my skivvys, just me and the little woman, took the long way to the shower only be told, bout time you took your shoes off at the door. :-[


----------



## Lew_Merrick_PE (Jun 6, 2010)

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> Tin: I'll be on the lookout for a place to nab some steel strapping. Hard to come by that kind of thing when you are cubicle-bound at work like I am. But when the opportunity presents itself, I'll strike.



Just about any warehouse operation will have an entire bin of "cut ends" from their steel strapping tape. As them for a couple of pieces (tell them you need them to be 4-6 inches minimum) and offer to donate to the "coffee fund." You will probably walk away with 8-10 *feet* of scrap "cut ends."

A dab of rubber cement placed on *one* side of the "joint" will keep them in place yet allow them to "seat" as you work. They can be removed from your vise (whatever) with a thin knife blade and the residue cleans off easily with a thumb and a bit of acetone.


----------



## shred (Jun 6, 2010)

Lew_Merrick_PE  said:
			
		

> Just about any warehouse operation will have an entire bin of "cut ends" from their steel strapping tape. As them for a couple of pieces (tell them you need them to be 4-6 inches minimum) and offer to donate to the "coffee fund." You will probably walk away with 8-10 *feet* of scrap "cut ends."
> 
> A dab of rubber cement placed on *one* side of the "joint" will keep them in place yet allow them to "seat" as you work. They can be removed from your vise (whatever) with a thin knife blade and the residue cleans off easily with a thumb and a bit of acetone.


Failing that, poke your head in the dumpster near the shipping/receiving location or mail room every so often. Anything that comes crated will be strapped with steel straps and they just get chucked. A bent bit makes a handy parallel-separator too.


----------



## Troutsqueezer (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks guys. I've been putting this off for no good reason so tomorrow I plan to cruise behind some of the local businesses and see what I can drum up and now that you mention it, I am tired of moving the vise jaws or work piece and having to re-stack the parallels (thick type, to date). Time to kick it up a notch...

-Trout


----------



## Blogwitch (Jun 7, 2010)

Trout,

That sure is a long list, and I am sure you could easily double that.

When I was younger (can't do it now, the mental retention has gone), I used to have a saying. 

Try to learn one new thing each day, no matter how trivial, whether it comes from very skilled people or the mouths of babes, it should come in useful one day.

Over time, especially in your machining journeys, all those little hints and tips will pay off, and you will start to make up your own as you go along. Nothing is written in stone, and most methods and practices can usually be shortened or made easier. As mentioned before, as long as it is safe to do, then do it.


Bogs


----------



## kvom (Jul 13, 2010)

OT on the bagpipe thing:

"The best way to play the bagpipes? With a penknife." - Connor Hogan
"Bring not bagpipes to a man in trouble," - WC Fields.
"Bagpipes are the lost connection between noise and music," - Jim Davis
"I firmly believe that distance adds enchantment to the bagpipes" - WB Yeats.
"Definition of a 'gentleman' - someone who knows how to play the bagpipes but doesn't," - Ronnie Corbett.
"The Irish invented the bagpipes as a joke and gave them to the Scottish, they still haven't found out," - Denis Leary.
"I understand the inventor of the bagpipes was inspired when he saw a man carrying an indignant, asthmatic pig under his arm. Unfortunately, the man-made object never equaled the purity of sound achieved by the pig." - Alfred Hitchcock
"Some men there are love not a gaping pig; some, that are mad if they behold a cat; and others, when the bagpipe sings...cannot contain their urine." -William Shakespeare
"If thy neighbour offend thee, give each of his children bagpipes." - Old Scottish Proverb.
"Kevin Ross plays the bagpipes, and they in turn have devoured his soul" -Jack "Smack-Attack" Johnson
"No man has EVER learned to play the confounded instrument!" Grytpipe Thyyne on The Goon Show
"Why do bagpipers march while they play? It's harder to hit a moving target." -Not You
"Golf is a game invented by the same people who think that's music coming out of a bagpipe." -Lee Trevino
"Thank God there's no smell." -Oscar Wilde
"What's the difference between a bagpipe and a chainsaw? You can tune a chainsaw." - Trad.


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 13, 2010)

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> I learned something new today.
> 
> Me and steel (steel and I?) have never gotten along when it comes to machining it. I always assumed it was mostly because my equipment is of a smaller size. Get your mind out of the gutter! :big: That, plus the fact I'm a total newbie to machining in general. As it happens, whenever I go to turn a steel part on the lathe I haven't been able to get the tool to take much of a bite out of the spinning metal. Any success I've had to date has been with my carbide bits but even those were performing very poorly.
> 
> ...


hey fella try my little trick use chainsaw chain oil its sticky as hell and stays on the steel better than anything else ive found and coz of that you dont need as much lol


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 13, 2010)

one of the most handy things i have found to have in my workshop is a bottle of superglue not only does it hold small parts still it sticks minor cuts on my hands shut instantly and seals against infection verry well its like haveing a bottle of spare skin 
   i also believe it was first developed for patching up broken soldiers in the battlefield i dunno if its true but it works a treat
  john


----------



## bearcar1 (Jul 13, 2010)

Somehow Trout', your story reminds me of an ages old joke about the lifelong cattleman that went into the local brothel one evening and was found deceased the next morning in bed. His tombstone read:
"He died with a smile on his face and his boots on his feet" :big: :big:

It's just me, sorry. I could not resist snickering. ;D


----------



## Troutsqueezer (Jul 13, 2010)

No problem BC1. I'm the same way. ;D

This post was started right after my second engine. Now that I've finished the third I could double the length of that list. No doubt it never stops as I'm sure everyone here can attest. I am reminded of the words of my great leader and founder of the company I work for:

"With engineering, I view this year's failure as next year's opportunity to try it again. Failures are not something to be avoided. You want to have them happen as quickly as you can so you can make progress rapidly". -Gordon Moore

Bogs, I missed your reply way back then. I agree %100. I've always admired your philosophy to helping others in this forum and elsewhere. It's certainly helped me. If I found myself in the UK some day, I'd feel perfectly comfortable knocking on your door. 

kvom - dude...we think alike!

john - with my first bleeding episode in the new hobby machine shop, a tube of Cyanoacrylic is what I went straight-away for but alas, the tube had dried up a long time ago. That's the problem with that stuff!

-Trout


----------



## johnthomp (Jul 13, 2010)

theres a new version of it i know of in two names in the uk one is joiners mate and another is mitre-fast its exactly like superglue but it comes in 2 pack form its superglue that never goes off until you spray the accelerator stuff on it after that you literaly have 2 seconds to make final adjustments 
   this new stuff is made for glueing mitres together on kitchen plinths picture frames split door edges but will stick anything it touches even glass its great for holding small parts together when drilling and tapping saves a hell of a lot of time 
   i think they made it 2 pack so it would have a longer shelf life mine has been on the shelf for 12 months or so now and is still fine id reccomend anyone in this game to check the stuff out 
  ps it makes great threadlock too 

   john ( mister stickyfingers)


----------



## deverett (Jul 14, 2010)

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> ... a tube of Cyanoacrylic is what I went straight-away for but alas, the tube had dried up a long time ago. That's the problem with that stuff!
> -Trout



Trout

To prolong the life of superglue, keep it in a cool place. A fridge is ideal.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


----------



## Blogwitch (Jul 14, 2010)

And you would be made welcome Dennis.

John


----------



## tel (Jul 14, 2010)

Geez, I dunno Bogs, didn't you just paint that door?


----------



## RonGinger (Jul 14, 2010)

I rather enjoy bagpipes, at least in modest amounts. I keep a CD of pipe music in my car. One year,while driving to NAMES (a 12 hour ride) with 3 friends I looked around and saw everyone sleeping. I slipped the pipe CD, which starts out with a real bang, into the radio.

Sure did bring everyone to attention!


----------



## Blogwitch (Jul 14, 2010)

Wot door Tel, I got a rock that rolls across a 'ole.

'Take me as you find me' is my motto. If you don't like what you see, a 180° turn shows you the direction to go.

I had Stew call yesterday, and he nearly got a face full of moon, I had forgotten to put my braces on, and I was lucky to hold my pants up long enough before it got embarrassing.

Bogs


----------



## Ned Ludd (Jul 14, 2010)

Slightly off original topic, but relevant to new subtext and music lovers;
The definition of "Perfect Pitch", throwing a set of Bagpipes into a Skip and hitting the Banjo already there.
Ned


----------



## Tin Falcon (Jul 25, 2010)

> Properly prepping the edge of a drill bit for brass prevents having to remake a part .... for the 4th time.
Tin 
Who happens to like bagpipe and banjo music and also like a bit of humor. ;D


----------



## steamer (Jul 25, 2010)

Properly identifying 303 SS from hardened 17-4 SS while doing a plunge cut with a 1/2 inch center cutting end mill through 1" round stock...........never knew end mills could glow "white" before...... :big: ;D also learned that I need to watch the part occassionally while cranking the knee up

....PS  My VanNorman #12 mill could have cared less....


Oh and I like bagpipes....if played well.....but not while napping in cars.... ;D


----------



## Ned Ludd (Jul 26, 2010)

"Oh and I like bagpipes....if played well.....but not while napping in cars.... "

Just so I know, for future reference, how do you tell? 
Ned


----------



## steamer (Jul 26, 2010)

Ned Ludd  said:
			
		

> "Oh and I like bagpipes....if played well.....but not while napping in cars.... "
> 
> Just so I know, for future reference, how do you tell?
> Ned



 :big:

If it sounds like:

Screeching cat in a food blender ....BAD

Screeching cat.......GOOD!


Additionally, on edit, I think I like bagpipes much more as a spectator than as just a listener.......


----------



## Ned Ludd (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks for clarifying, but I think I will stick with the screaming cat, at least you know the screaming will stop when you take your foot off its tail! :big:
Ned


----------



## DavidP (Aug 13, 2010)

Disclaimer: I have played both pipes in bands (and funerals) and trombone in jazz bands

Driving home on leave from Townsville to Melbourne as a subbie I had a pipeband cassette on. I thought the drums were way out for a minute, and then realised that in fact I had done the water pump. ;D


----------



## don-tucker (Aug 13, 2010)

somebody told me they sound like "a cat with its knackers in the vise" a bit harsh I thought.
Don


----------



## steamer (Aug 13, 2010)

I just don't think I can listen to it as a recording...it needs the Piper, the kilt, ect...and it needs musicianship.

I was working in the engine room on a wedding charter and down through the museum grounds came the procession to the boat...lead by a Piper.

Just as they got started, it started to pour! Everyone had umbrellas....except of course for the Piper....who played on regardless......right down to the dock where he "piped" everyone aboard.  He got on board last.  He never missed a note...he didn't even flinch....it was coming down in buckets and this procession took 20 minutes! After the blessing to the boat and the couple...he stood down...he was standing at attention until then......and a pint was waiting for him on the foredeck....he sipped it for two hours....very professional

That "spectacle" will stay with me for the rest of my life....

Dave


----------

