# New Lathe



## Paolo (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm thinking to change my Veprug 0761(SIEG 7x12)..I'm attracted from The Myford super 7...I have two owner in contact...
as you can see....
This one need a long restoration job and it comes without Tailstock and upper slide turret...





the other one seems to be in complete but the owner says it need also some undifined yet restoration job..




Or....going straight on to Optimum 240x500G "Vario".....Dilemma :hDe: :hDe: :hDe:




Paolo


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## Xlmyford (Sep 14, 2009)

Moin.
From my point of view,I would take none of them.
Look for a much better maintained Super 7.
If something looks rotten and handled without any trace of sympathy,and both Myfords do,it is very likely to be rotten inside.
How can someone treat a good lathe in such a bad manner? 
Ralph
Btw.Forget the chinese lathe.It´s not bad,but the Super 7 is a legend


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## Debian (Sep 14, 2009)

Paolo, having seen in your posts Your great attitude to this hobby... I would recommend an Italian "Ceriani" or a German "Wabeco" for you!!! (If You can't find the jewel "Myford" with a better look, of course).
For sure they cost much more than the Optimum, and I know You have the BF-20 mill, but somewhere I read that the quality of Optimum lathes is not comparable to their mills.
Ciao!


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## Paolo (Sep 14, 2009)

Hi Xlmyford and Debian
..thank for supporting me...in that difficult chois...It's so strange for me hear that the quality of Optimum lathes is not comparable to their mills. I'm really satisfied by my BF 20...!! Unfortunatelly in Italy the Myford in good condition is a dream...The rusted one comes from an school dismaltling...the second one comes as buyback from a little industry. 
Wabeco....Ceriani really interesting suggestion...


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## Richard1 (Sep 14, 2009)

Depending on the price and what is wrong with the second one I would at least consider it. It is on an original Myford stand and only appears to be dirty with paint knocked off rather than any serious mechanical damage. It has apparently had a hard life and would need checking carefully to see how worn it is but there is nothing obviously missing. Where is it? Make sure it has all the change gears, should being in Italy have the metric conversion gears as well. If they are missing it will add quite a bit to the cost.

Richard.


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## Paolo (Sep 14, 2009)

Hi Richard
I'm on the same Idea The seller is going to do a deep check over It, I'm so far from his shop, and He will be more precise about condition and price. It seams haven't any change gear but one had been found via eBay at about 150£...Crossing the finghers!!! :-\ :-\ :-\
Best regards
Paolo


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## Xlmyford (Sep 15, 2009)

Hallo Paolo.
Changewheels from british suppliers seem to be good value
Within the EU,there will be no custom fees or tax to pay.
*RDG*
You have to scroll down that page.
Regards,Ralph


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## NickG (Sep 15, 2009)

I would tend to agree, I was about to buy a chinese lathe but had a change of heart near the end and bought a harrison. It was probably one of my better decisions, it's a big machine, but if you have the space it's worth it for all the features it has. 

Having said that, I know a lot of people that make fantastic things on chinese lathes. I have a chinese milling machine and can the quality difference between it and the lathe is vast, however, it seems to work quite well, and as long as you find their limitations / little improvements that can be made they can be brilliant and a good investment.

Nick


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## Paolo (Sep 17, 2009)

Hi Nick and Ralph
I have two pics in front of me...trying to decide...




and this one....




The price difference is about 400...Optimum is most favourable...Really I don't know...
Best regards
Paolo


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## Noitoen (Sep 17, 2009)

The Optimum is a Chinese made lathe with a German design and warranty. I have a F45 mill from them with no complaints.


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## steamer (Sep 17, 2009)

Paolo,

What is the weight of each?

Dave


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## Xlmyford (Sep 18, 2009)

Hallo Paolo.
You can´t go wrong with the Optimum.It is said to be the best of the chinese made.
It is proven chinese made quality,the factory is under german management, and their customer service,actually I can only talk about the service bases in Germany, is more than excellent.They have bases all over europe.
They give two years warranty and are very generous after that.
Of course it is not a Myford or anything like that.But you can build excellent parts with that lathe,if you can.
Don´t know anything about that other lathe.
Cheers,Ralph


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## ariz (Sep 18, 2009)

Ceriani

it is a small, REAL lathe!

did you see that it has the ways that don't touch the headstock, to let greater diameter to be turn (like the Myford  )?

it is made in Italy and the factory offers a rebuilding service when it will be worn by use


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## NickG (Sep 18, 2009)

I've looked at the Ceriani before on ebay and they look a real quality piece of kit, but aren't they a small fortune? I also know somebody that has a Wabeco milling machine which he says is great. I have a cheap chinese version of that and it's alright. How much are both of those?

Nick


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## Jasonb (Sep 18, 2009)

The Ceriani mills start around £3000GBP so I would think the latehs are around the same price. The Wabeco are in the same price range £3000GBP for a 200mm swing lathe and £5000+GBP for 280mm swing.

Jason


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## NickG (Sep 18, 2009)

Nice but too expensive for me! I'd go for a good second hand machine or one of the bigger chinese type ones if you've got the cash.

Nick


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## Paolo (Sep 18, 2009)

Hello my friends
"Alea tracta est" th_wav
..After a long trip over the web and a lots of contact with sellers and factories...I decided!!!
The winner is.........................................C E R I A N I 203 Norton "David"....My personalized version is:
MOD. DAVID 203 NORTON 
with 4 automatic longitudinal feeds and n. 30 threading leads - Semi-Norton System - Metric threading pitches from 0,5 to 2,5 - Whitworth from 11 to 40 - Module from 0,1 to 1.
Technical Data :


Height of centers mm 100 
Distance between centers mm 500 
Lathe bed mm 120 
Swing over bed mm 200 
Swing over gap mm 260 
Swing over carriage mm 120 
Width between gap edge and bedplate edge mm 60 
Spindle diameter mm 125 
Spindle hole mm 35
Passage bar mm 35
Spindle taper morse 3 
Cross slide travel mm 100 
Carriage travel mm 60 
Rotation angle of carriage 45° + 45° 
Tailstock sleeve travel mm 60 
Tailstock sleeve diameter mm 25 
Tailstock taper morse 2 
Speeds range RPM n. 7 min. 1° 100 ÷ 1800 
HP motor HP 0.75 
Overall dimensions mm 1000 x 470 x 350 
Approximate weight without base kg 80 / 85 

 The price was..reasonable.... : My wife doesn't know the real price yet! :big: :big: :big:
Thanks for supporting me.....!!


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## NickG (Sep 18, 2009)

Paolo ... good work! It looks like an excellent quality of machine ... I hope you keep us informed - don't tell the wife you need the milling machine to match just yet! ;D

Nick


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## ariz (Sep 19, 2009)

congrats on a good choice Paolo!

give us a lot of pics when it will be in your workshop


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## Debian (Sep 19, 2009)

So You decided for the best choice, eh? great Paolo!!! :bow:
I'm sure You'll never regret it!
Waiting with Ariz for a photograpic report, even of the BF-20, of course!

Paolo

p.s.: goditi il momento dell'attesa ;D


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## Blogwitch (Sep 19, 2009)

Chester UK are now importing their range.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/ceriani_david_203_lathe.htm

The the basic lathes seem reasonably priced, until you look at the ridiculous price of the stand and backsplash. Should be a lot cheaper in Italy.

The mills are grossly overpriced for their specification. You could buy a Bridgeport clone for what they are charging for a very basic mill.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/ceriani_david_mills.htm


Blogs


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## NickG (Sep 19, 2009)

I just noticed that last night too!


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## Paolo (Sep 21, 2009)

Hi my friends....
Yes I'll let you know when the lathe will be on my bench...Blogs I'll report to Mister Ceriani that claim... He seams to be very sensitive man.
I posted in a different site the "photostory" of arrival and cleaning of my Bf20..I don't know if this is the right place to post it...Maybe in a shop section?
Regards
Paolo


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## Debian (Sep 21, 2009)

Looks like the first to be overpriced is that uk vendor, the lathe is 33% and the mill is 45% more expensive than in Italy. For sure the mill is anyway too expensive, but You buy an original italian made machine, and not simply a clone or something from Cina.


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## Blogwitch (Sep 21, 2009)

Paolo,



> ...Blogs I'll report to Mister Ceriani that claim... He seams to be very sensitive man.



I certainly hope that you do, if we don't complain about being overcharged for a machine, the retailers certainly won't.

Debian,



> You buy an original italian made machine, and not simply a clone or something from Cina.



I don't really know what you mean with your statement. Unless you are inferring that Italian made machines are better than far eastern. Not ever having owned a machine from Italy, I can't comment on that, but with regards to my £4k chinese milling machine (as I said a lot less cost than the Italian one) I have nothing bad to say about it at all, and WOULD guarantee that it is a lot more rigid and have a larger capacity than the Italian benchtop one shown, and it has a lot more features both on the machine and the supplied DRO.







Which one would you decide on if you had the space to fit it?


Blogs


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## Paolo (Sep 21, 2009)

Blogs
I'm here not discussing on which is better or not!! A part so I believe that the answer at your question is in the question it self...


> Which one would you decide on if you had the space to fit it?


 If you don't have?
Best regards


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## Debian (Sep 21, 2009)

Well Blogs,
I would never start a polemic with You, because I learned to love this hobby thanks to Your posts, when You were not just a witch  (just take a look here, I wrote that 1 year ago): http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=3480.0

For sure Your mill is much better than the italian one we're talkin' about, but not everyone have all that space! and You know that, in proportion, the bigger the machine, the lower the cost.
Than everyone knows that, usually, on far eastern machine You have to do a lot of cleaning and adjiusting before to get it to work. You know how to do that and I'm sure You could write a book on that, me.... not for sure!!! eheh, that's why I'd prefer a "ready to go" machine, like a wabeco, a ceriani, a myford.... etc etc.

By the way, everyone here in Italy use to say the Ceriani Mill is really too expensive, so... at last, You're right and me... maybe I'd just need to improve my english to don't fall in dangerous misunderstanding.
Really hope to read soon about some of Your new creations, all the best,

Paolo


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## Paolo (Sep 25, 2009)

Hello My friends 
I had a long talk with Mister Ceriani...He admitted the price that the stand is a bit expensive..for some reason...But that is not my business!! He allowed me to report you that...:"If your friends have a question to pose they can contact me for any reason and I'll give always an answer"..So feel free and contact him for price, description, or whatever you like....


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## Blogwitch (Sep 25, 2009)

Debian,

I wasn't trying to compare size for size, but value for money.

My mill needed nothing doing to it by the way, it was ready to go from the off. All that needed to be done was level up and grind down a handle spring, as it was too strong for my feeble muscles to compress and hold.

What I was really trying to get over, is that machines are treated the same as designer labels.

Got a name for itself, certain people would pay for it, even if it was garbage.

Now to upset a lot of diehards.


Myford is a very good example. People crave for them, and boast that it is the best small lathe available, and pay silly money to own one. Why?

I have owned a Myford, OK it was an old one, and it did the job, but only like thousands of other lathes on the market. Why should I pay 5 times more than I paid for my lathe, and end up with a machine that was designed for the 60's & 70's and has improved very little since. The company are resting on past laurels, and hoping that people won't realise how far behind the times their lathe really is.

When you get to the Hardinge and Monarch, then yes, they are great machines, but are limited to who can afford both the cost of the machine and spares, and workshop space.

To me, a good machine is a good machine no matter what name it has, and I have found my cheapo far eastern machines are good.
I had some trouble with the original lathe I had delivered, but that was completely sorted by the importers, and now to me, it is the best machine I have ever owned, and wouldn't swap it for a designer lathe if it was offered to me. 

So why the extra cost of a machine that will machine no better than the one I have got? I am sure that most people would prefer value for money rather than the so called designer machines.


Blogs


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## 1Kenny (Sep 25, 2009)

I have owned an older mill that was made in Italy. It was easy to maintain and cut well. 

Kenny


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## stpjokin1996 (Sep 25, 2009)

Sorry but what is a Lathe for?


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 26, 2009)

Stephanie:
   The lathe is the king of machine tools. with a well equipped lathe you can make almost anything one piece at a time. 
Look here there are several hours of decent videos that will give you the basics of machine shop work and tools.
http://techtv.mit.edu/genres/24-how-to/videos/142-machine-shop-1
and more lathe videos here
http://www.wswells.com/video/index.html
I think this will answer a lot of basic questions.
Tin


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## NickG (Oct 1, 2009)

I have owned an old myford and I didn't see what all the fuss was about either. It wasn't good at all. Maybe that was because it was old and worn. Then I used a boxford at school and thought my machining skills had improved 100 fold overnight! That was a nice machine.

I know somebody that has just bought a nearly new myford for a small fortune and he isn't that impressed with it. But on the other hand, I know somebody with a large bore version with DRO etc and he swears by it, but it must have cost an arm and a leg.

I'm sure you could get a chinese lathe for less than half that price, more features, better capacity and achieve the same results.

Each to his own, but personally I can't see why myfords are so expensive and what all the fuss is with them.

Nick


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## Paolo (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know if it is the right place for posing the pics but...Finally at home!!!! Yesterday my new Ceriani lathe arrived!!! Due to some battery problems I wasn't able to take a pics of his arrival...
The strong board box..with dividers....








On his place....




another view




Some adjustment are needed...moving that..and the shelf....




Wheel room...




original tool post...




I started to try to install my Phase II tool post...It was very hard..but finally...the pics are for tomorrow sorry!!


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## ariz (Oct 7, 2009)

ohhh, you got it finally!
it looks a beautiful machine  , and stays perfectly on your bench 

I'm happy for you Paolo, this is a great improvement to your workshop!

but we want more pics ;D


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## NickG (Oct 13, 2009)

Looking good Paolo. Your milling machine looks the same as mine!


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## Paolo (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi NickG 
This is a good mill...It is an 'Optimum Bf 20....
Best regards
Paolo


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## Paolo (Oct 13, 2009)

I did some changes around the lathe...sorry I didn't had time to pose until now...
I have done an emergency wrench...(Waiting for the new)




Chuck removed




working on the new backplate




Done!!!




The 5C collet chuck installed...




Shelf moved!!!




Wall plugs moved!!


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## phlegmatic (Jan 16, 2010)

Good choice Paolo! Say, how much is the model with potentiometer on it in Italia? 

Are you still happy with it?


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## steamer (Jan 16, 2010)

Nice Looking lathe Paulo!

Dave


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## Paolo (Jan 22, 2010)

Hi Dave & phlegmatic
Maybe Monday the lathe will be sent to Ceriani brothers for having three improvements as:
- installing a new motor with inverter...at the end the low speed will be around 30 rpm nice for treading and a    potentiometer for speed regulation :big:
- installing a special system for reversing the rotation direction for doing left threading and other...:big:
I'll post the pics as I'll receive the "new"!!!!


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