# Cfellows plans wanted



## H0$$ (Dec 2, 2019)

I recently found out that Cfellows had passed away. I am trying to obtain some of his plans / drawings. I am most interested in those of his version of a cutter grinder. In his previous post he was willing to share these drawings if asked. So if anyone has copies of these drawings, and are willing to share them with me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks Hoss.


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## ironman (Dec 8, 2019)

I didn't know Chuck had passed away.


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## bigal2749 (Dec 8, 2019)

Sorry to hear of his passing.

One who was always ready to share his knowledge. 

I was lucky enough to have owned 2 of his unusual engines


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## nel2lar (Dec 8, 2019)

Hoss
If you go to all the articles from CFellows, you might find just what you are looking for. Here is the site to start with page 1 through 182. 
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/search/9919672/


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## H0$$ (Dec 8, 2019)

Nel2lar I have searched through all of his postings that I could find and I am still unable to find prints or drawings for his cutter grinder. I would appreciate any help finding these that anyone can provide. I have posted my requests to a couple of forums that he frequented, but so far, no help.  Thanks to those of you that responded.    Thanks Hoss


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## ironman (Dec 8, 2019)

When did Chuck pass away?


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## H0$$ (Dec 8, 2019)

ironman said:


> When did Chuck pass away?


I’m not sure of the date, maybe someone else on the forum might know since I’m kind of a newbie to this forum.


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## goldstar31 (Dec 9, 2019)

I was sort of involved in correspondence with Chuck regarding his T&C but after an exhaustive search--HERE- the relevant photos were removed.

It is probably worth USA people to be a little crafty and buy the new Mk3 details from Heningwayskits in the UK but the Mk2 castings from Martin's Models in the USA.

Subject to correction, it would seem that the Mark2 castings etc can be machined as Mark3 ones.

OK, the vertical pillar machined with the spiral may not be available but desirable as it is, it isn't vital to the operations. 

Again, the new construction articles are an improvement- because most people now have mills which certainly wasn't so when Chaddock wrote his Model Engineer articles and later his book.

Frank;y as I wrote elsewhere here, I would look seriously at Guy Lautard in Canada's  vastltly expanded version poof  the Tinker.

The tinker simply uses the cheap double ended grinder whereas it is quite an effort to make the Quorn spindle.

My opinions, of course

Norman


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## nel2lar (Dec 9, 2019)

Hoss
Does it have to be the T&C Grinder that Chuck made?
Nelson


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## H0$$ (Dec 9, 2019)

nel2lar said:


> Hoss
> Does it have to be the T&C Grinder that Chuck made?
> Nelson


No I’m trying to put together a couple of different prints for comparison before building one.


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## H0$$ (Dec 9, 2019)

On another note, has anyone used or built the cutter grinder shown by the Bristol Model Engineers? I do not know the name of it. I am interested in information about it before I spend the $40 for the prints. Thanks Hoss


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## goldstar31 (Dec 10, 2019)

Somehow I seriously doubt that you will get very far if your future knowledge of tool and cutter grinder rests on whether or not you have to spend $40.  You MAY be lucky to get advice from someone else who has spent considerably more than $40 to get it for himself. 
I hope that I am not being churlish but in the past month or so, I spent over £60+ on the Mk3 Quorn drawings etc and a further £72+ on  a part set of castings to possibly replace original castings for my Mark1 Quorn.
To ensure safety on my old Quorn, I spent another £75 or so on  NEW abrasive wheels.

I might believe in Luck but think about just how much, I and many other workers have spent in merely amassing a 'knowledge bank' of information.

Out of my knowledge bank or whatever it is called,  I got an e-mail from an expert- and several 
phone discussions from another expert and neither were satisfied that ANY tool and cutter grinder was a complete answer.
As I have written earlier, I have several machines and my thoughts are similar to those from my correspondents.

Unless any one knows better???


Norman


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## fcheslop (Dec 10, 2019)

Harold Hall website has some cutter grinder ideas that maybe worth looking at . The link is for a simple jig
Sharpening End Mills 5
This site has some info on the Tinker and the Stent
GadgetBuilder's MiniLathe and Little Workshop
Like all things no single design will cover all so some compromise will be required.
If cost is an issue as it is to me at the moment then from my limited knowledge I think the Tinker or Harolds designs maybe the way forward
Im looking to build a cutter grinder as I no longer have the use of several industrial machines the only down site of retiring
The Tinker is on Guy Loutards site not sure if thats the correct spelling
A build of Mr Halls device Iv not read through it all
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/harold-halls-precision-grinding-table.12984/unread
cheers


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## goldstar31 (Dec 10, 2019)

Guy Lautard is in Canada and the tool did have castings but  I'm no longer sure.

The Two main parts originally from castings can be fabricated from bar stock or welded or brazed.

However, the Lautard plans are certainly not $20 A further check suggests $40 in US and $77 for the castings from Martin who   incidentally reported that he still had a few sets of Quorn castings.

Oh the joy of making those ball handles


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## H0$$ (Dec 10, 2019)

Many thanks to all of you that have responded, and I hope to read even more! This is the kind of sharing of knowledge that I have been looking for.  Since this is a hobby, I really prefer not to waste a lot of money on things if I can avoid it. No one thing fits all, but if we don’t know our options, we will make regrettable choices.  Hoss


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## John Antliff (Dec 10, 2019)

I made the HH design and used it for simple grinding - it's no more than a semi-precision tool rest fitted to a bench grinder.   It was cheap to make and provided me with the capability of accurate angle grinding for lathe tools etc.  but it was awkward to use and quite limited in scope.    I then made a Quorn with an extended bed and with some modifications that make it easier to use.  Note that some of the clamps are better served using split cotters and some are better server as split castings.  I did make a wrong choice when I used a split cotter on the workhead rocking lever which unfortunately if clamped hard affects the lateral movement of the workhead along the front bar.  Not a serious problem but one which could have been avoided if I hadn't thought that the split cotter would be a better solution.  Also the tilting bracket is prone to slipping (there are ways to improve the friction of this item).  The single 1/4 BSF clamping screw on the top of the rotating base is to my mind inadequate and I would use an alternative solution if making this part again - I have added an extra bracket to prevent the bar beds from rotating during use.  The Quorn is far superior in precision and usefulness than the HH design however it took me 3 years to complete the Quorn and all it's accessories but well worth it.  Every so often I have a sit down for an afternoon and put new cutting edges on all of my favourite cutters.  I usually grind drills freehand unless I need a precision size and then I'll grind a 4 facet face using the Quorn.  One of the Quorn accessories allows one to grind centre drills - I have a tendency to break off the points when I push them to hard at a too slow speed without lubrication!  Reamers and end mill flute grinding is quite tricky and not always successful if care is not taken with the required angles!  I'm limited to holding cylindrical bits no greater than 20 mm in diameter and square bits 20 mm square - that hasn't been a problem so far.


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## nel2lar (Dec 10, 2019)

Hoss
Here are two of the nice build by different people that did a very nice job from bar stock. I have more and there is many that made the Bonelle on the internet. Bar stock make it a lot cheaper than castings.
Good Luck on you quest.
Nelson


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## goldstar31 (Dec 11, 2019)

H0$$,
              I went back and reviewed your posts  to their beginning- and I doubt that you can manage either a Bonelle or a Quorn in your lathe.  I've got both a Sieg 8 x 16 and a Myford Super 7B which swings 14" but squeezes in 19" between centres!
So amongst the tool and cutter grinders which are better than the basic stuff which will do lathe tools- perhaps little more, in your circumstances, I would go for the Tinker for which plans are not too expensive- or a struggle to  machine within the footprint of your lathe.

Again, the motive power of the Tinker is from a cheap Double ended grinder whereas  the Quorn, Bonelle and the Stent and basic Kennet are quite challenging and the 2880Rpm 1/6th HP motor is quite expensive( or is in the UK)

Others may differ

Norman


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## H0$$ (Dec 11, 2019)

goldstar31 said:


> H0$$,
> I went back and reviewed your posts  to their beginning- and I doubt that you can manage either a Bonelle or a Quorn in your lathe.  I've got both a Sieg 8 x 16 and a Myford Super 7B which swings 14" but squeezes in 19" between centres!
> So amongst the tool and cutter grinders which are better than the basic stuff which will do lathe tools- perhaps little more, in your circumstances, I would go for the Tinker for which plans are not too expensive- or a struggle to  machine within the footprint of your lathe.
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## H0$$ (Dec 11, 2019)

goldstar31 said:


> H0$$,
> I went back and reviewed your posts  to their beginning- and I doubt that you can manage either a Bonelle or a Quorn in your lathe.  I've got both a Sieg 8 x 16 and a Myford Super 7B which swings 14" but squeezes in 19" between centres!
> So amongst the tool and cutter grinders which are better than the basic stuff which will do lathe tools- perhaps little more, in your circumstances, I would go for the Tinker for which plans are not too expensive- or a struggle to  machine within the footprint of your lathe.
> 
> ...





nel2lar said:


> Hoss
> Here are two of the nice build by different people that did a very nice job from bar stock. I have more and there is many that made the Bonelle on the internet. Bar stock make it a lot cheaper than castings.
> Good Luck on you quest.
> Nelson


Thanks


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## H0$$ (Dec 11, 2019)

Has anyone used or built the  Colyer/Caseley CUTTER GRINDER ? How does it differ from the bonelle , Quorn, tinker, H.Hall ?


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## goldstar31 (Dec 11, 2019)

Apa r t from the Hall which could be attributes to all sorts of model engineers, the Quorn and subsequent 'clones' are attributed to the German Deckel which was essentially for producing engraving cutters.

I could go back to the works of Holzapffel who was. responsible for Ornamental Turning Lathes and along with Maudsle y and co, screwcutting which opened up the Industrial Revolution which followed the 4th Agrarian Revolution which - for me , followed the Bronze Age.  All before my time but tremendous fun doing things like Megalithic Yards and Cup and Ring markings and, of course, keeping company with skeletons and -- all to do with grinding! 
It's all been done- before. Even Leonardo Da Vinci got involved in military weaponry in  the Middle Ages.


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## goldstar31 (Dec 17, 2019)

It's now freezing in Newcastle upon Tyne, too cold in the workshop and really the invitations to keep swopping into morning dress and evening dress and consume large quantities  of Christmas, then New Year, then Burns Suppers and finally Chinese New Year is far to tempting.
So between  large offerings of food and alcohol I have done little serious work  but have sought to find 'a cheap' solution to tool grinding.  frankly, Chuck Fellows excellent contribution to tool grinding simply does not exist anymore. I've spent a whole morning with a headache from too much Chinese banquet, too much wine and far too much whisky  but nothing more has turned up. Tonight it's evening dress  and formal dinner yet again after a masonic evening.
So a simple  fabrication of something simple. Years ago, I was one of these people who saw the hidden advantages of one of  cheap and rather nasty Chinese 3 way vices utilising a cheap but not quite so nasty 6" double ended grinder was thought up and published by the late  and much lamented John Stevenson in Nottingham.  It works, I did a better hand scraping of the ways in the vice ways.
Today, with cheap and very good Chinese 7 x14 etc lathes it is possible to concoct a surface grinder which is really all that things like Clarksons, Stents, Brooks  and whatever are.  If you add a better three way little vice to the earlier idea, one has an extremely useful tool. I have a vice, a Clarkson and a fabricated Stent- and have tested it.  I've got a SiegC4 lathe complete with a vertical but movable mill drill- nothing is impossible!

The other bright thing for people without a means of dividing and graduating is a mathematical formula of using the number 0.0088 to solve degrees on grinding wheels.  One wants an angle of say 7 degrees which is a common requirement and say a 6" wheel.   So the maths is :-

0.0088 X 7degrees x 6 inches. 0.3696" which is near 0.375" (3/8ths)or at a pinch a millimetre

It's a simple as that.

Back to carousing- and spending the Children's Inheritance.

Norman


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