# Conensation in the workshop



## chipenter (Feb 17, 2013)

After a frosty night and a bright sunny start this morning , pulled the cover off the lathe to see it covered in moisture .In January I fitted Trace Heating cable under my micro mill oil tray and the mill was dry , the cable is 30 watts per metre and I fitted two metres with a thermostat , the element is visible in the second pic ,


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## loggerhogger (Mar 15, 2013)

Here in Western Washington state, we don't get a lot hard freezing temperatures, but we do get a lot of rain. I finally got tired of having little rust spots show up on my machines and tooling, so I found a second hand dehumidifier. I keep it set to around 75% so that it doesn't run all of the time, but just enough to keep my tools dry and happy.


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## chipenter (Mar 15, 2013)

Fitted trace heating under my mill oil tray comes on at 4 degrees C , works really well  at 60 watts I can afford that and only comes on when needed , got to pull my lathe apart to fit the same system .


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## jerrybilt (Mar 15, 2013)

Imho with my experience ( little ) of telescopes in domes ... Please do not cover the machine as condensation will only make matters worse. Ensure there is a free flow of air through the workshop.  I use ( heaps !)  lanolin based oil to cover the shiny parts.

Dehumidfier ? Excellent. The best for a small workshop is an airconditioner ( makes the place as dry as a desert!). Here, in Aus, there are some really cheap, chinese ones available ... Much cheaper than a good mill vise.


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## chipenter (Mar 16, 2013)

This shed leaks air like a sieve I have to replace the doors and windows , then I can think of other arrangements the cable only heats the mill up to the dew point , since this was done I have had no condensation on the mill just on the lathe and bar stock .


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## aarggh (Mar 16, 2013)

jerrybilt said:


> Imho with my experience ( little ) of telescopes in domes ... Please do not cover the machine as condensation will only make matters worse. Ensure there is a free flow of air through the workshop. I use ( heaps !) lanolin based oil to cover the shiny parts.
> 
> Dehumidfier ? Excellent. The best for a small workshop is an airconditioner ( makes the place as dry as a desert!). Here, in Aus, there are some really cheap, chinese ones available ... Much cheaper than a good mill vise.


 
Only problem is the way the utilities are going up and up, the cheap Chinese ones are really expensive to run, and inefficient. When I've finished my workshop I'll be putting in the best unit I can afford, so the running costs are lower. It's funny, a mate at work the other day couldn't understand why I wouldn't consider evaporative cooling for the workshop.

cheers, Ian


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## gabby (Mar 16, 2013)

I have to agree with you Ian, I am a refrigeration engineer,  buying cheap means you get what you pay for, usually the finish is not great and no rust protection which will limit the life span of the unit, and not the best components and the electronics that is used is normally a "basic operation" model with no bells and whistles, like no LP / HP cut outs although they usually have a high temp sensor on the condenser, also the inverter transistors are usually substandard and will run for a while then they invariably fail when the unit is stressed out for any reason eg. very hot days or very cold days, and you can bet ya boots that it will fail when you need it most.
My recommendation is spend a few more $ and get a good reliable brand like No.1 = Daikin, then Fujitsu and Mitsubishi are an equal second in my book, then maybe Panasonic and the rest  is the rest.
At least when you buy the Daikin, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi units, you also get a reasonable warranty (5 - 6 years) with them.
These units may be a little more expensive, they also are cheaper to run as they have many years of experience in the design of efficient running equipment. 
Anyhow, that's my 10cents on the subject.
Gabby
P.S. condensation is the result of a high "dew point" and cold machine,
meaning :- basic physics = Heat always flows to cold, and as warm or hot air is moist and cold air is dry, as the warmer temperature of the air (could be as low as 2 degree difference) passes through to the colder temperature of the machine, it leaves the moisture behind on the surface of the cold machine which = condensation.
So the resulting solution is Warm workshop/ machinery (which is then above the relative dew point, so no condensation.
Simple eh.
  Here endith  the physics lesson for today. ha ha


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## jerrybilt (Mar 16, 2013)

Re: . It's funny, a mate at work the other day couldn't understand why I wouldn't consider evaporative cooling for the workshop.

I never get condensation in the shed but in summer... I was going to put in a swampy just to blow cool air on me. One cannot work if the outside temperature is 30c . This summer it was 48c in the shed!

Jerry.


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## aarggh (Mar 16, 2013)

jerrybilt said:


> Re: . It's funny, a mate at work the other day couldn't understand why I wouldn't consider evaporative cooling for the workshop.
> 
> I never get condensation in the shed but in summer... I was going to put in a swampy just to blow cool air on me. One cannot work if the outside temperature is 30c . This summer it was 48c in the shed!
> 
> Jerry.


 
SA you might be okay with one, but in Melbourne all the machines and tools would rust in no time with an evap. We're tending to get very humid days alternating between cold-cool-mild-hot over short periods, sometimes all in the one day!

Our nectarine tree hasn't given us ripe fruit for the last several years now as we get hot weather, then wet weather then a blast of stinking hot days (41-42 last year), followed by unbelievably high humid levels, and the fruit just goes brown and mouldy on the tree, literally overnight. I'm really over this crap monsoon/tropical weather.

cheers, Ian


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## jerrybilt (Mar 16, 2013)

We have only had about 30mm of rain (guess) since last November. The birds got 50% of the figs this year and I got to eat the other one.

Jerry.


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## tornitore45 (Mar 25, 2013)

I use a 60W light bulb powered via diode, which makes it about 40W because of the filament TC.  Underpowered it last forever rather than burning out in 2000 hours.  Under a tent made from an old bedsheet it creates a low humidity microclimate.
Late and mill have been rust free for years, but it may also be due to the layer of oil.


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## chipenter (Mar 26, 2013)

I tried a light dropped a 1\2 chuck on it blew the workshop and house RCD , the heating cable is under the oil tray and much safer , still put a cover over though .


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## tornitore45 (Mar 26, 2013)

Point taken, Jeff.  My bulb is on the far right where there is much less action and powered via a switch, the bulb is off when I am working on the lathe, should I break the bulb my only problem is to clean up the glass and a replacement of something that is now added to a long list of banned things.


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## Hopefuldave (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm using a 60W greenhouse tubular heater[1] under my lathe bed, with a cheap plug-in timer[also 1] set to warm it up from 5am to 10am and a cotton cover thrown over to keep the heat in - the worst of the condensation seems to be when the air in the shed warms around a cold machine shortly after sunrise, so far it seems to have worked, and the coat of furniture paste polish (beeswax, carnauba and turpentine - no silicones as they affect any later attempts to paint etc.) on the bare metal surfaces helps, by closing the "pores" in the cast iron so there's nowhere for moisture to get a hold.
The greenhouse heater's built in a metal tube with plastic ends, I've sealed it with Hermetite against coolant / cutting oil, and the cable entry has a proper glanded clamp as standard - no breakages or sizzling noises yet!

Dave H. (the other one)

[1] - from a car boot sale, of course - I said I was cheap


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## WCPenney (Mar 27, 2013)

Great reminder that it's that time of year in New England again (and probably old England as well ) I usually run around the garage with an oil can wiping down everything in sight. 

My first year here, I opened the garage door on a warm day after a cold night and watched everything flash rust right before my eyes. I'll have to try a few heater strips. I've had particularly bad conditions in the bottom compartment of my Kennedy roll-away. The 4" rotary table, 4" mill vise, and the X-Y vise for my drill press insist on flash rusting even with a coat of oil.


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## chipenter (Mar 27, 2013)

I am pleased with my installation on the mill as it doesn't get hot , it is a very gentle heat source only comes on below  4 degrees c . I have been using waxoyl on the attachments and that helps .


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