# Tormach PCNC 1100 should I??



## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

I have been waiting for about 3 years now to get a cnc mill and really like the tormach pcnc100. Its a good size mill although id like a larger one but im limited on space. To me this mill is something that if it did ever have an electronics problem or driver problem I could work on myself and repair verses something like a haas that I would need to call someone in to fix.
  Im ready to pull the trigger and order it up with the stand and 4th axis. I have never run a cnc machine before in my life so I hope people will help me out on this. I purchased Alibre cad a few months ago and have been modeling parts for different things and feel pretty comfortable with it (and happy) and will be getting the sprut cam for generating tool paths.

  I guess im really looking for some help, do i push the button and order it?
 What acessories do I want to get with it? 

I have an old birdgeport J head mill now and a fair amount of tooling for it, but its very old and worn, the spindle runout is .002" and the lead screws are worn so if you try to use the graduation on the hand wheels they are off .010" from end of travel to center (according to dro). still this "old clunky" works for me it just takes a bit longer to true things up.

   So you can see I really need a new mill. am I making a good decision?
 what else should I get with the mill???


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 30, 2012)

this is a question you need to answer. cnc is different than manual. and the trnsition can seem like a tall hurdle but there are self taught guys here that do fantastic work with cnc.
Tin


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## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

Tin Falcon said:


> this is a question you need to answer. cnc is different than manual. and the trnsition can seem like a tall hurdle but there are self taught guys here that do fantastic work with cnc.
> Tin


 
  Well i have more time to sit in front of a computer than I do the mill so im hoping that I can get the cnc thing down quickly (atleast the standard stuff) and be able to turn out some of my Ideas as well as making stuff for local street rodders (Dads Buddies) and recoupe some of the expenses of purchase. But this mill will be for me and what i want to do more so than turn a profit. I picked up on the cad quick, hopefully I will on the cam also.  Im just leary of investing this much money into something that I know so little about. The main question is, is this machine good for me?
  I will be using it to make patterns and core boxes to cast parts as well as making molds for injecting wax into for investment casting...


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## blighty (Nov 30, 2012)

just looked up the stats of you 1100 http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_main2.html

dont think i have heard a bad thing about Tormach, but going by that stats of the 1100 it looks like a good cnc. bit on the light side so don't expaced it to take a 1" deep cut with a 3/4" cutter at 100IPM.

as Tin says cnc is a different kettle of fish compared to manual. take feed rates for eg. with manual you take the cut by hand and when the mill starts to wine or the cutter makes a noise that it didn't make before, you just slow down a bit. with cnc if you tell it to take a cut at 100IPM it will!. regardless if it makes a noise, the work fly's out the vice or the cutter explodes...... 

so to get to grips with feed rates go slow at first and build up. put a bit of scrap in the vice and take a cut with a 1/2" cutter,10ipm, 1/4"doc (Depth of Cut) see what happands. then goto 15ipm and so on till the mill starts to grumble.

buy some decent cutters..... not these $20 sets of cutter where you get 12 cutters in a box.

as for accessories........

clamp set, parallels, vice (it might come with one of them) copper hide hammer or a dead hammer, dial  indicator (finger type), Collet set to hold your cutters and SAFETY GLASSES

start small. make a square with a hole in it. dont go for the V8 crank case 4th axis nightmare just yet.

go on push the button


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## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

LOL  just have to laugh, I was thinking of a crank first!!  Straight eight crank LOL.  but seriously I just plan on doing some basic milling to get a feel of things running at the same speeds and feeds that my bridgeport can handle. Except for steel, my bridgeport never has the speed to run a 6 flute carbide 3/4" endmill to its potential. I have a box of them so I plant on really hammering down on them...


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## RonGinger (Nov 30, 2012)

Tormach has been around for years, and sold probably several thousand units. They have a large and active user group and hold frequent training classes at their shop. They have exhibited at several Cabin Fever shows and the past CNC workshops.

If you want some direct users comments Id look at their user forums on the web site, or maybe the cnczone.com tormach group.

They are outside my budget, but I have looked them over very carefully at the shows and Id buy one in a heartbeat if I had that kind of money.

I have purchased the Tormach tooling system components for my Jet knee mill. They are great.


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## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

I havent been to a cabin fever expo since I met Rudy Kouhoupt there, cool guy that took the time out for me on a personal level. I still have his plans for a marine steam engine that I never built,  I owe it to him to build it......
 Im on cnc zone as well, tormach has a great support group and history and this is why im really considering pushing the button. But dropping 20k on someting that is new to me scares the hell out of me......


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## lenscad (Nov 30, 2012)

I've had my Tormach for 3-4 years.  It is my first mill (manual or cnc) and I am happy with it.  The rotary 4th axis is good but I don't use it much.  The power drawbar is great.
I use it a lot with MDI (manual data input) which is similar to using a manual mill.  I also write a lot of my G-code by hand with a text editor for simple parts.
Regards,
Len


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## blighty (Nov 30, 2012)

20K!!!! shock and horror. ditch the Tormach and convert an RF45


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## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

rudys marine engine, my cad learning experence..


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## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

blighty said:


> 20K!!!! shock and horror. ditch the Tormach and convert an RF45


 
 LOL, wish I had the time.....


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## blighty (Nov 30, 2012)

not to sure you can use the same feed rates as you did with the Bridgeport. i haven't been on a Bridgeport for a few years, but the ones i was using went up to 2500rpm. your Tormach will do 5000rpm. a Bridgeport comes in at 2000lb. 1100 comes in at 1130lb. so yes you have 5000rpm to rip through metal but not the weight behind it. just means your depth of cut will be a bit less.


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## ninefinger (Nov 30, 2012)

I think you know your going to buy it, its just a matter of how many accessories your going to add to it. If you knock your total price down a bit you know you'll get it, just don't buy the packages as they seem designed for schools, institutions etc that just tick all the boxes and buy at 1 place.  They don't discount anything for buying it all at the same time either.  Some of their accessory prices are quite high for what I'm sure are generic parts (ie $310 for their standard 3 jaw chuck for the rotary table...)

The stand is nice looking but at $1650 is rather pricey for something to sit on, you could fabricate your own or have one made for far less...(-$1650)

The "Machine Controller" is code for a PC with the Mach software loaded.  Again, if your even somewhat computer savy you can save here with very low risk. (-$715) - the Mach license is include with the mill so if you have a surplus older windows machine no need to buy..

The 4th axis isn't something you'll use very much at 1st and as the mill is pre-wired for it you can always buy it later if you have a burning need..(_$1450)

And lots more examples (vise, lcd monitor, etc)

Start with the basics and you'll be much closer to $10K.

I think the mill is a very fine machine - just be careful about the accessories...

Mike


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## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

blighty said:


> not to sure you can use the same feed rates as you did with the Bridgeport. i haven't been on a Bridgeport for a few years, but the ones i was using went up to 2500rpm. your Tormach will do 5000rpm. a Bridgeport comes in at 2000lb. 1100 comes in at 1130lb. so yes you have 5000rpm to rip through metal but not the weight behind it. just means your depth of cut will be a bit less.


 
  Speeds and feeds... I would hope a new tormach could out run a 70+ year old bridgeport...


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## aonemarine (Nov 30, 2012)

ninefinger said:


> I think you know your going to buy it, its just a matter of how many accessories your going to add to it. If you knock your total price down a bit you know you'll get it, just don't buy the packages as they seem designed for schools, institutions etc that just tick all the boxes and buy at 1 place. They don't discount anything for buying it all at the same time either. Some of their accessory prices are quite high for what I'm sure are generic parts (ie $310 for their standard 3 jaw chuck for the rotary table...)
> 
> The stand is nice looking but at $1650 is rather pricey for something to sit on, you could fabricate your own or have one made for far less...(-$1650)
> 
> ...


 
 Mike, your hitting things dead on from my point of view. Yes the stand is way over priced, but me building one is time spent, and my time is limited.
  I really want the 4th axis, most of what I want to do would really benefit from a 4 axis. I will probably buy my chucks elsewhere. but the real question is the computer,  I have one built to thier allowable specs, but will they stand behind thier product as much if the controller was bought from them???  Im not sure I want to rake that risk. Id rather spend the money for the support. but then agin I could all ways buy it from them later if it became an issue....


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## blighty (Nov 30, 2012)

sorry, don't get me wrong.... your Tormach will out do your Bridgeport, but in a different way. the 1100 will take lighter cuts than the BP because of its weight,  but your feed rate will be 4 or 5 times faster.


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## Herbiev (Nov 30, 2012)

Yay. Go for it. You deserve it and we deserve to see pictures of you using it


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## kvom (Dec 1, 2012)

aonemarine said:


> Speeds and feeds... I would hope a new tormach could out run a 70+ year old bridgeport...



My Novakon NM200 is the same class machine as the Tormach, even a bit heavier, and I still prefer to use smaller endmills.  Smaller cuts at higher feed rates are easier on the machine and the tool.  A 3/4" HSS endmill in steel calls for about 800rpm, and that will shake a light machine like mine or the Tormach.

I use a lot of 1/4 through 1/2" carbide endmills.


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## starnovice (Dec 1, 2012)

Trust me (usually means that is the last thing you should do   ) but you will want the 4th axis.  It gives you a whole lot of new capabilities, including cncing gears, making ball handles, several things that to day you do on a lathe you will be able to do with a 4th axis.

Pat


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## Dave Sohlstrom (Dec 1, 2012)

When you get the mill do not trust your ears and eyes for speeds and feeds. Get a copy of Gwizard and plug in all the data to figure out the best feed and speed for that end mill and material. Also invest in machinable wax for doing test runs. You can save a $20 end mill if your Gcode does not do what you wanted it to do.

My brother has a Tormach at work and loves it.

Dave


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## RonGinger (Dec 1, 2012)

> The "Machine Controller" is code for a PC with the Mach software loaded. Again, if your even somewhat computer savy you can save here with very low risk. (-$715) - the Mach license is include with the mill so if you have a surplus older windows machine no need to buy..



My hobby has become building CNC machines- I've done 8 or 10 on my own, and lead the classes at the CNC workshop for 22 guys to build machines, so I am really into do it myself.

However, one of the most important features of Tormach is their support, and they offer a unique version of Mach which they customize a lot. In my view it would be foolish to give up all the Tormach support and special features to save a few $ on a cheap PC. The Tormach PC was very carefully chosen to be a match for the mill.

In 'full disclosure' I do support work for Mach wizards, so I might have a tiny gain if you did buy Mach direct and not the Tormach version. I still encourage you to get the Tormach PC and software.


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## cobweb81 (Dec 1, 2012)

I have owned a PCNC1100 for almost 2 years and run it every day. I mostly machine plastic parts but have done steel, aluminum, wood and brass. Not any issues to date. I made my own power draw bar because I did not want to spend the $1200 for theirs when it came out. Tormach is a great company and their techs are good about helping with any issues. They do have good support. Their products are well tested and designed well. I use their computer for control. These machines can be picky about the computer. I can not say there is anything I do not like about the machine. Well ok one thing I don't like. If you run the table to one of the stop switches while working or setting up, you have to home the machine again before you can do any thing else. All in all good machines for the money. I would recommend their base. It is very nice and gives you storage for the PC on one side, tooling storage in the front and the left side is for the coolant tank. All doors are lockable and it looks good. You also have a very good surface to mount the mill and nice leveling feet under the cabinet.


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## ninefinger (Dec 1, 2012)

RonGinger said:


> However, one of the most important features of Tormach is their support, and they offer a unique version of Mach which they customize a lot. In my view it would be foolish to give up all the Tormach support and special features to save a few $ on a cheap PC. The Tormach PC was very carefully chosen to be a match for the mill.



After I posted I decided to read up on the PC offered by Tormach.  Its not that the version of Mach software is different but that they are using an embedded version of Windows XP as the operating system -thus avoiding the pitfalls of setting up a PC to run properly with the Mach software.  As I don't use Mach but had a hard time setting up LinuxCNC I can see a known working PC to be a value for money spent.

Again - I was just giving examples of items that could be omitted if so chosen so as to reduce the immediate impact on the wallet.  I agree that the stand is well made, the PC is a proven performer etc.  Just be selective on the accessories


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## aonemarine (Dec 1, 2012)

Hearing alot of good things about the tormach, probably will be the mill I go for.....now if I can just find a coupon!!
  Im sitting here reading the manual on it now prepairing myself for a new dimension


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