# no mill  no lathe ic engine



## Matterest (Apr 26, 2010)

is it possable to biuld one of these like this


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## stevehuckss396 (Apr 26, 2010)

Matterest  said:
			
		

> is it possable to biuld one of these like this



If it is, you have alot of thinking to do.


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## Captain Jerry (Apr 26, 2010)

Why not! The first lathe was built without a lathe.

Jerry


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## xo18thfa (Apr 27, 2010)

The first oscillating steam engine I built did not need a lathe. It was from mostly K&S hobby metal stock. Use a facet handle for a flywheel. It was all soft soldered together. It ran like a top.

I don't know about ic however.


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## stevehuckss396 (Apr 27, 2010)

Was short of time yesterday but...

If you buy RC engine parts from smashed plane engines you might be able to bash enough stuff together on a fabricated crankcase. It would require alot of thinking and research to figure out what will work best with what.


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## johnthomp (Apr 28, 2010)

if you can cut drill and weld why not try and build your own lathe or milling machine useing some of the ideas on my build thread on this plans section im just doing this because i need a miller and i want to show people it is possible to make machinery without spending a fortune i just wish my old faithfull miller hadnt gell through the manhole cover and got wedged down an 8foot deep land drain inspection shaft ive tried like hell to get her out and i cant exactly start digging the shaft out now can i 
   if you look on the jontom website i recall seeing drawings how to build a steam engine out of parts from a 3 pin plug maybe you could do something cimilar with a small hydraulic ram or something its just a question of how much time do you want to give it 
   and heres a thought the cylinder on the engine in my pic started off life as a brake slave cylinder off the back wheels of my old car and i built that as a runner before i had a lathe just used a power drill bench grinder and a good assortment of files ive been hooked ever since


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## Matterest (Apr 29, 2010)

can a wood lathe be used if i get the metal tools


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## Deanofid (Apr 29, 2010)

Matterest  said:
			
		

> can a wood lathe be used if i get the metal tools



It's not really suitable, Matt. Maybe some very light work could be done on it, but they generally don't have the heavy duty gibs and spindle bearings needed for the stress and forces you're talking about when cutting metal. Compared to a metal lathe, most wood lathes of a similar size are very lightly built.
Also, again, unless doing very small pieces and cuts, you need a stout tool holding fixture of some kind. You don't want to be running a hand held tool into a spinning piece of metal. Not on something larger than a watchmakers lathe, at least.

How large is the engine you have in mind? What bore and stroke? What materials do you intend to use? What tooling do you have available, and what kind of machines will you be able to use for making various pieces?

Give us some *details* and *specifics*, and don't be afraid to throw in any info you can think of. You don't need to limit your questions and comments to a single sentence. Blab away. It will help others to help you. If you are serious about this, be serious with us and tell us all the variables. We may have some good ideas for you.

Dean


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## Matterest (Apr 29, 2010)

i dont really know what 2 stroke or 4 means (im only a sophmore in highschool) but i have pipe a welding machine and model t parts (tons).  what is tooling???


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## kcmillin (Apr 29, 2010)

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> , you have alot of thinking to do.



diddo. Along with some reading on basic engine theroy.

Kel


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## compressor man (May 1, 2010)

If you choose an engine as complex/difficult as an IC engine for your first build. Especially lacking the tools and the fundamentals you might end up disappointed in the end. It is my opinion (only my opinion) that you may be better off starting with a really simple and basic engine that will run off of compressed air such as McCabe's runner. You will have a dramatically better chance of finishing with an actual running engine, and in a time frame that an impatient beginner can deal with . 

If you start with a difficult project it will not only be complex but likely take a very long time to finish. If you were to get bogged down in such a build your enthusiasm is likely to sour for this hobby.


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## capjak (May 1, 2010)

Hi Matt,

Why don't you drop a note to Kaleb. He is your age and lives in Australia. He has posted on this discussion board and on the Madmodder.com board. He just completed a working engine from scrap parts. He may have some ideas or suggestions for you. Also, some of the old Popular Mechanics, Popular Science, and Mechanix Illustrated magazines from the 40's and 50's have plans for engines that can be built with hand tools.

Don't give up.

Jack


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## Matterest (May 2, 2010)

at least im not the only one this young here thanks for the tips


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## robertvi (May 2, 2010)

You can make a piston that fits inside whatever cylinder you have using J B Weld (a high-temperature resistant epoxy), no lathe needed:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbhTKQKcH1c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbhTKQKcH1c[/ame]

I guess this would only be good enough for a compressed air or steam engine though, not an IC. I'm trying to make a Stirling engine with only hand tools, but should probably have chosen something simpler for my first engine.


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## itowbig (May 4, 2010)

i say go for it make it happen


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## terrywerm (May 12, 2010)

Matt, I believe that an IC engine would be too complex to build without some machine tools such as a lathe or mill, and as others have said, it may be so complex as to have you lose interest in the project before it is completed. In your case I would recommend starting with a pre-machined steam engine kit, or possibly an engine built from brass tubing, as someone else also mentioned. 

You do have other options available to you, and they will become apparent if you take a minute to think about them. Here are some possibilities:


Check around your neighborhood and with relatives. There may be an individual around that has some machining equipment and the knowledge and willingness to help you with your project. My 26 year old son is just starting to show interest in machining metal parts. Teaching him is very enjoyable and rewarding for both of us
Maybe you could take some machine shop classes at school or at a local technical school where you would be allowed to work on such a project. Taking such classes would also give you the basic working knowledge you need for such a project.
Watch estate sales and consignment auctions in your area. You would be amazed at the equipment that can be had from time to time and often at bargain basement prices.
Start with something small and easy. By 'small' I really mean uncomplicated. A simple wobbler engine is a great way to get started. Kits and plans for them are very abundant.
Enco has some books available on basic machine shop practices. Purchasing them may be a big help to you if you do not have other learning resources available. There is also a very good chance that your local library will have books available that cover the subject. You may even get lucky enough to stumble on a book of plans that you can utilize.
There are quite a few plans available on the web. Go to http://www.john-tom.com/html/Engines.html  and compare the IC engine plans against some of the steam engine plans. You will quickly see the difference in complexity between the various types. You will also notice that there are plans there ranging from very simple to very complex and everything in between, and most of them are free to download.
If you live in an area where threshing shows are held, or old time power shows, make sure you attend one or more of those shows. They almost always have areas set up for guys like us to display our projects. You may be able to make a connection with someone there that can get you going in the right direction.

Whatever you do, don't give up. I built my first engine, which was a small single cylinder steam engine, when I was in a high school machine shop class (over 30 years ago). My second engine didn't come until about 15 years ago, and it was built with only a drill press and was soldered together from brass tubing. I've had a drill press and grinder for years, but I just purchased my first lathe 6 months ago. I haven't started on any engine projects yet, but have been turning out some other projects that have been on my list for a long, long, time. 

Be patient, ask lots of questions, and don't be afraid to ask for help from others. Most folks in this hobby are more than happy to teach new people, both young and old.

Terry


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## rickharris (May 12, 2010)

If your short on cash but keen to build a lath wouldn't be so hard to make a start with and you could then use it to make lots of engines.

Some details http://www.vintageprojects.com/lathe-milling-plans.html here to start you off.


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## mu38&Bg# (May 27, 2010)

This was posted on an RC forum I'm on.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1250801


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## ttrikalin (Jul 3, 2010)

Robertvi,

nice job!


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## Matterest (Nov 25, 2013)

sorry for creating a zombie thread but i though i would share something i found recently its in russian and google doesnt translate it very well but there a lots of good pics and diagrams. 
http://www.sam0delki.ru/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8
hopefully this will help anyone wondering if they can make an IC engine with hand tool, it looks like the people on that thread have done it.
-matt


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## gmac (Nov 25, 2013)

Matt;
You might want to Google the "Henry Ford First Engine". It's simple enough and many of the parts are store bought with minor machining. From this forum;

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/henry-ford-engine-7985/

As for the idea of building a lathe and mill; I started down that path but soon discovered that the cost exceeded that of finding a used Taig or chinese 7x12 lathe. I'd suggest watching the ads for a lathe.

As Terry said, leverage the people you know and businesses to help you accomplish the things you can't do (yet). There are lots of people willing to help young people keen to learn.

Cheers Garry


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## Matterest (Nov 28, 2013)

gmac said:


> Matt;
> You might want to Google the "Henry Ford First Engine". It's simple enough and many of the parts are store bought with minor machining. From this forum;
> 
> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/henry-ford-engine-7985/
> ...



Since the first post I have gotten a lathe and mill(piece of junk) hopefully I can get a sherline mill soon, I have looked a that engine before and it has always interested me.  
I am a member on a robotics team of highschoolers.  Most of the students have atleast a little experience with manual and cnc machines, its amazing that the can build a 120 pound robot to throw a frisbe or something like that in six weeks. A few of them have expressed interest in building model engines as well.
Would you suggest the ford engine as a first ic engine?

http://kyeot.org/home/


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## RichD (Jan 2, 2014)

Matt,
Check out this site, he hosts all kinds of stirling engines made from Tin Cans...
http://www.boydhouse.com/stirling/
Rich


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## BronxFigs (Jan 2, 2014)

Matterest...

I like your style.  Almost anything can be done....so, try.  But first, do some reserch for simple designs.

For cylinders....try DOM (drawn-over-mandrel) steel tubing, and finish the bore with very fine sandpaper.  Hone the cylinder by spinning the sand-paper around the inside of the bore by using an electric drill, and slotted wooden dowel.  Pipes will probably not have a round bore.  You might also try using store-bought, bronze bushings for a cylinder.

Buy some small diameter, bronze bushings at the local Hardware/Marine-Hardware store and use these bushings for your bearings.  Use scrap metal for the rest of the engine.  Many parts of the engine are NOT critical, but relationships and dimensions are.  Cranks must spin easily, and turn without binding, and the finished piston/cylinder must seal without leaking.  The 'frame' of the engine just holds everything together, in the correct relationships.  (This is an oversimplification).

I would strongly suggest that you start with a simpler, steam-engine, and learn how to fit all the parts together.  The same skills used to make this steam-engine will be used to make your I.C. engine(s).  Look up the drawings for a steam engine called: "The Little Husky" - Modelengineeringwebsite.com.  Take a good look at the drawings.  Almost all the frame parts can be made by using the simple hand tools found in any good shop.  Use a short piece of DOM steel-tubing for the cylinder, which is the most important part of this design.  Once you have a good cylinder, make a good-fitting piston, then make the rest of the parts.  Make sure you understand how this engine works.  Later on, when you gain experience, you could convert this steam-engine into an Internal-Combustion design by making a few new parts, like the cylinder, valve, cam, head.  NOTE:  Some forum members have already built this engine and posted very helpful photos of this engine as it was being built.

I wish you good luck, and I hope you have many hours of interesting fun when building your first engine.  Ask for help.


Frank


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