# Ford Quadricycle



## vascon2196

So my Quadricycle Club is now an official club at New England Institute of Technology. Our students will be machining and building Henry Ford's first automobile, the Quadricycle.

Here is our first completed part...the Distributor Link.

Only one hundred or so parts to go!

Enjoy.


----------



## Herbiev

Hi Chris. I am really looking forward to following this build. Thanks for sharing it with us on HMEM. Are the plans available ?


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you!

I got the plans from a man out west...Tom Ronnin I believe. I put all the original drawings into Solid Works and created detail drawings. The original drawings were missing a lot of detail. At some point when they are finsihed with all the "bugs" removed I will post them...there are about 150 drawings all together.

Here are some more pics of progress.


----------



## Herbiev

Many thanks for that Chris. Happy to wait for the plans and in the meantime follow your progress


----------



## charlesfitton

vascon2196 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I got the plans from a man out west...Tom Ronnin I believe. I put all the original drawings into Solid Works and created detail drawings. The original drawings were missing a lot of detail. At some point when they are finsihed with all the "bugs" removed.
> 
> *I will post them...there are about 150 drawings all together.*
> 
> 
> I really hope you can follow up on the posting of the refined drawings.....and I thank you in advance
> 
> f


----------



## jasonh

The picture of the angle iron laid out is pretty funny.
When I was in Dearborn MI I visited the Henry Ford Museum and saw the original quadricycle.
I remember thinking - "Jeez- it looks exactly like something built in someone's garage - the frame is made from bits of angle iron!"

Jason H.


----------



## stevehuckss396

If you are unclear about anything I was thinking about going to the henry ford tomorrow or sunday. I could take the camera and a tape measure.


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> If you are unclear about anything I was thinking about going to the henry ford tomorrow or sunday. I could take the camera and a tape measure.


 
It must be nice to live that close! I hope to visit next summer...I have become quite a Ford fanatic since I built his first stationary engine and now even more with this Quadricycle project.

If you have time....and only if you have time...an overall snap shot would be great. A lot of the pictures have glare from the glass it is encased in.

Thanks again...enjoy it there...I hear it's great.


----------



## flylo

When my sons were small my youngest got to drive it out of the garage at GFV, it was great!


----------



## flylo

And remember it was built in a Home Shop, amazing!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Here are some from today's trip


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you so much for posting those!

I want to go there now!!!!!!!!!

For some reason I thought it was encased in a glass box...it looks open from the pictures.

If I am reading the Ford website correctly, the Quadricycle is at the Henry Ford Museum right? Or is it somewhere else?

Thanks again for the pics.


----------



## bob shutt

My Dad and I built this 1901 curved dash Olds replica (in the garage). It does not have the original engine but is powered by a 13 horse power lawn mower engine and transmission. The wheels are from a company named Worksmans. They make industrial bicycles. I will definately be following your build


----------



## stevehuckss396

vascon2196 said:


> For some reason I thought it was encased in a glass box...it looks open from the pictures.
> 
> If I am reading the Ford website correctly, the Quadricycle is at the Henry Ford Museum right? Or is it somewhere else?
> 
> Thanks again for the pics.


 

It's in the open. Can almost touch it it's so close.

Yes it is at the henry ford.


----------



## cfellows

Great thread, Chris.  Are you going also try to replicate the original engine?

Chuck


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you Chuck...yes we will be replicating the original engine as close as possible. I have the cylinder tubing and hone already.

We will be purchasing the rims, tires, and a few other things but I want to do as much as we can with the machinery we have in the shop.

That is the intent anyway.

So far the only problem I keep running into is $$$$...


----------



## tel

Interesting, I'll be watching this as well - and looking forward to seeing the plans!


----------



## vascon2196

bob shutt said:


> My Dad and I built this 1901 curved dash Olds replica (in the garage). It does not have the original engine but is powered by a 13 horse power lawn mower engine and transmission. The wheels are from a company named Worksmans. They make industrial bicycles. I will definately be following your build


 
Thanks for sharing these pics....going to check out those wheels....I had a hard time finding 40 spoke wheels like Ford used but I found them. I have to make custom hubs but the rim, tire, and spokes I will be purchasing.


----------



## Herbiev

Hi Tel. We can make half a dozen of these for our next Aussie team build and have a Bathurst to Broome bush bash


----------



## ccstudent

now i hate to be the newbie here but. is that engine steam powered or is it an ic?


----------



## vascon2196

The Quadricycle had an internal combustion engine.


----------



## ccstudent

Thank you. I will be watching this one


----------



## vascon2196

Finished the first cylinder bracket...more pics on the way.


----------



## Rexxie

Hi All, 

This is such an exciting post. You mentioned that you have accessed original but fairly incomplete plans. Are these available to anyone?
If your drawings were available, that would be great too.

You mentioned that you are buying the wheels.  Am I right in thinking that the wheels are old-style 28 inch roadster bicycle wheel sized -- 635 designated rather than the 622 that is equivalent to 700 c?  Where can you get these from?

So far I have built and have moderately operational:
1886 benz 3 wheeler {2 versions since I was not happy with the first}
1889 daimler v-twin steel wheel car
1894 benz velo 4 wheeler
1886 daimler single track motorbike -- rough and hard to corner
1894 popp partially complete -- very little info on this car, so if you have info on it, I would certainly appreciate it.

I will post up a couple of pics if you are interested. All full size, but with some liberties taken where there was a lack of 
information -- or to solve ignition problems -- or to avoid patently dangerous early fuel supply solutions.

Anyway, looking forward to this conversation.  

Kind regards


Rex


----------



## vascon2196

Hi Rex,

Looks like you have plenty of experience with building cars of the past. I would love to see some pictures.

My SolidWorks drawings are slightly different than the original plans but only in the sense that I had to modify certain features to make it easier for my students. We are limited in the machinery in our shop.

I do not have all of the details completed as we are still in the very beginning phase of this build. Send me an email and I can put you on the list for receiving drawings.

The Flywheel should be completed within the next 6-weeks and the two main bearings are being programmed in MasterCam by a student.

More pictures to come next week...I have been slacking on the pictures!


----------



## Rexxie

Hi All, 

A couple of photos of some completed projects

Hope this is not diluting the thread.

Kind regards

Rex


----------



## vascon2196

Awesome!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Motormagican

Hello, I think this is a great build for your students. 
Funny thing is I was going to scale the Ford Quadricycle next. I will follow you build and watch for you plans. 
I am working on a scale 1886 with no plans. I am making them as I go; I am not in my workshop and only have hand tools for the build.
Thank you for sharing


----------



## vascon2196

The flywheel is coming along and should be completed by the end of this week!

The main bearings are going to be done on our CNC machining center using MasterCAM...an evening student will be doing all of that.

Next, the students are going to build a dolly so we can push the frame around the shop.

More to come!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Awesome, Thanks for the update!


----------



## vascon2196

I am currently in the process of uploading ALL Quadricycle plans onto a custom website I have created that will be devoted just to the Ford Quadricycle. They are NOT the original plans but are merely a version of the original Ford Quadricycle plans redrawn in SolidWorks. I had to make minor changes to some of the parts based on our machinery and tooling. Some of the drawings were created by our students.

*The original Ford Quadricycle plans can be purchased online.*

My site will contain SolidWorks drawings only...no 3D models.

Instead of emailing the drawings I thought this site would work out better for everyone. When I have uploaded them to my website I will post the link here.


----------



## vascon2196

Here is the completed Flywheel for the Quadricycle...next is the Crankshaft!


----------



## vascon2196

Here are some updated pictures of our Quadricycle progress.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Everything looks great so far. I wish the shop at the schools around here looked that nice.


----------



## etard

I think this is a great and noble cause, I will be following with much curiosity.

Having said that, I am wondering what are the benefits this provides to the students.  Is this in conjunction with a CNC machinist program or the like?  What good will this do the student when he/she graduates?  I enjoy working with manual machines, but more and more it seems like CNC knowledge and training seems to be the only jobs out there.


----------



## vascon2196

etard said:


> I think this is a great and noble cause, I will be following with much curiosity.
> 
> Having said that, I am wondering what are the benefits this provides to the students.  Is this in conjunction with a CNC machinist program or the like?  What good will this do the student when he/she graduates?  I enjoy working with manual machines, but more and more it seems like CNC knowledge and training seems to be the only jobs out there.


 
I hope the students walk away with a better understanding of how parts are manufactured. I truly believe that a good mechanical design engineer should know how a part is to be made and on what machine(s) to make it on before they run off and start designing. In my opinion, a good machining background will help them become better more effecient engineers. At least then, they will be designing with a purpose...designing with the intent to manufacture.

So far it is working out quite well.


----------



## sssfox

vascon2196 said:


> I hope the students walk away with a better understanding of how parts are manufactured. I truly believe that a good mechanical design engineer should know how a part is to be made and on what machine(s) to make it on before they run off and start designing. In my opinion, a good machining background will help them become better more effecient engineers. At least then, they will be designing with a purpose...designing with the intent to manufacture.
> 
> So far it is working out quite well.



I wish more teachers did that. 

I used to work for the Florida Department of Transportation and we would get these green engineers that thought they could design traffic lights or bridges or drainage structures just because the had a degree and could use software.  

I have heard the same thing with mechanical design companies.  One example was a guy that insisted they  fabricate a part that had a stepped, blind hole that was larger at the bottom than it was at the top.  He insisted that if the software could draw it then they should be able to build it.  After a heated discussion, the fabricator finally said he would build it of the engineer could figure out a way to clear the chips.  The engineer just said "huh?"

A lot of them can't grasp the difference between Computer Aided Design and Computer Generated Design.

The sad thing now is that they make 3D printers that let them build the crazy stuff.  Left on their own, they may never learn.

Thank you.

Sorry for the rant.


----------



## vascon2196

Ha! The rant was good...I don't mind!

I was fortunate to have been taught by "old timers" and whenever possible in industry I would find those "old timers" and pick their brains. I love new technology but I also respect and try to understand how things were accomplished before technology. I like mixing it all together.

This is what makes this forum so great...there is a good mix of "old school" and "new school" working together for the sole purpose of having fun with this great hobby.

If I can inspire my students to feel as passionate about mechanical engineering, design, and manufacturing as I do then its all worth it.


----------



## trumpy81

Hey Chris, there's a minor error on that stud. You'll have to make the students stand in the corner for that one ... lol ... Just kidding! There is a chamfer missing though. Excellent project. I never knew anything about this vehicle until a few years ago. Wish I could be your student now. Where were you when I was in school?? My metal work teacher was the pits, or maybe I was just a little s%^* ... lol

Please keep us posted with the progress on this and kudos to you AND the students. Well done so far!


----------



## vascon2196

I just noticed the chamfer!!!!!

Oh boy...

I'll keep the pictures coming!


----------



## vascon2196

Roughing the main bearing using our Haas CNC Mill. An evening student is doing this...I don't know how to turn the machine on!


----------



## Chriske

I to teach and learn our youngsters to work with lathe, millingmachine, etc...
I think the conventional and CNC work should go hand in hand AFTER they have learned it all on conventional machines.

Chris


----------



## Rivergypsy

Ditto - learn to cut, and then learn how to put the numbers to it on a cnc. After that it's fair game


----------



## vascon2196

Our students cannot use the CNC machinery until the Bachelor's program...this is an evening student who works full time during the day and attends school at night.

Even when the students are using the old Vertical mills...I do not allow them to use the DRO until they can read the dials.

I agree with you folks...they need to know the basics...someone has to keep the "old ways" alive and as long as I am there I will do just that.


----------



## vascon2196

Welding the connecting rods!


----------



## mnay

Chris,
You mentioned the quadricycle plans were available on line.
Do you know the website?
And does that include the engine?
Thanks for your help.
Great job so far.  Look forward to seeing more.....
Mike


----------



## vascon2196

Hi Mike...I just sent you a message with the link.

The plans have everything. (at least they should) Still working out the little details.

Let me know if you have any questions or problems opening the drawings.


----------



## mnay

Thank you for taking the time to send that to me.
I am currently working on a Locomobile engine (similar to the Mason engine)
scaled up from a Live Steam Magazine series.
See my thread in Work in Progress Locomobile
thanks again.
I will look forward to watching your progress.
Mike


----------



## vascon2196

No problem Mike...and I _will _check out your build!


----------



## vascon2196

Updated build pictures of Quadricycle parts...





Carb Handle





One Clutch Pulley complete and one to go





Jackshaft parts





Crank Arms Broached and completed





Setup for drilling and tapping the Main Bearing Caps





Main bearing top and bottom fitted together and ready for CNC milling





Main bearing setup


----------



## trumpy81

That's looking good Chris. Those parts are beautifully made but I wonder whether or not they are too good compared to the original. I doubt Henry had access to machine tools when he built this engine?


----------



## vascon2196

I can only imagine what he would have done with CNC!

And thank you for your comments...I will pass them along to my students!


----------



## marcin-242

Welcome. Quadricycle plans you have? I'm Polish. For me there are no plans. Please answer. Martin.I am very interested. thank you


----------



## etard

Isn't CNC cheating? why do it manual at all, if there are parts that have to be CNC'ed?


----------



## vascon2196

I don't consider CNC cheating...it is an aid to manufacture parts more efficiently. The main bearings are the only 2 parts being done on our CNC mill as we could not afford the pattern and casting like the original bearings.

The remaining parts are done on manual lathes and mills with the help of the ProtoTrak for complex 2D shapes.

Drafters would call CAD cheating....until they found out how awesome it was!


----------



## trumpy81

vascon2196 said:


> I can only imagine what he would have done with CNC!
> 
> And thank you for your comments...I will pass them along to my students!



I can't imagine what the model-T would have been like if Henry had his hands on CNC. That's a scary thought ... lol

Please do pass on my comments to the students. Sometimes a little praise goes a long way. Confidence building and all that. Your students really are learning from the master and it shows too


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you for your kind remarks Andy...I have learned a TON from the great folks on this forum.

This build has been a lot of fun and we have only just begun.

Looking forward to seeing it through to the end.


----------



## vascon2196

Check out the finished main bearing!


----------



## mnay

That will be a challenge for those of us with manual machines.
Beautiful work.
Mike


----------



## vascon2196

Updated Quadricycle pictures done manually....


----------



## Motormagican

Project is coming along great. Are the plans available?


----------



## vascon2196

Some more progress today....finished boring crankshaft hole with this funny looking single point fly cutter. Never used it before but it worked great. The bushing fit like a glove.

Next week I have to figure out how to drill the cylinder/main bearing mounting holes.




















Cylinder mount spacers




Front leaf spring spacers


----------



## Mitchg07261995

loving this build! keep up the awesome work


----------



## Jack B

Hi Chris: You and your students are doing a great job. I have one question for you just to get an idea of the size of your engine, how big is the flywheel? It is a nice looking piece of work. Thanks for shareing with us.                   Jack B


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you Jack!

The Flywheel is about 18" in diameter. We had to redesign the Flywheel to make it into (2) parts because of its original thickness.


----------



## Jack B

Thanks Chris: That's a great idea putting two pieces together. I know it's difficult to find a chunk of metal that size. I am enjoying your postings. Your pictures are really worth a thousand words. Best of luck on your project.      Jack


----------



## Motormagican

Hello, you and your students are doing a great job. The parts are lookingreal good. I hope to hear it run one day. I received the link to the plans and wantedto know if you had plans for the chassis or will more be forthcoming. Thank youfor sharing your progress, Danny


----------



## jwcnc1911

This is impressive!


----------



## vascon2196

Motormagican said:


> Hello, you and your students are doing a great job. The parts are lookingreal good. I hope to hear it run one day. I received the link to the plans and wantedto know if you had plans for the chassis or will more be forthcoming. Thank youfor sharing your progress, Danny


 
Thank you Danny...currently those are the latest prints. As we complete each new part or sub-assembly new drawings may be added. It has been a slow process but these are not machining students, they are engineering students. They are learning machining each week they show up to participate in the club....which is awesome!

So more drawings to come...just don't know when.


----------



## palmettojeepster

Hey Chris nice build .. I also was wondering about the link or website you have for the plans. I would enjoy building this with my 2 sons who love old technology ....much appreciated, Christian.


----------



## vascon2196

More progress...


----------



## trumpy81

It's really starting to look like something now Chris. Your students are doing an excellent job!


----------



## mnay

I love it.
In a couple of years there will be many Quadricyles built following your lead.
Can't wait to see it run
Mike


----------



## FozzyBear

vascon2196 said:


> currently those are the latest prints. As we complete each new part or sub-assembly new drawings may be added.



Hi Chris,
                 This is a fantastic project. As a mechanical engineer based in the UK I have to say that we suffer the same problems over here, with new "engineers" ... To be honest I refuse to even call most of the output from the Universities "engineers".  

           It's simply not good enough that they don't know how to make something. The fact that most of them have never gotten their hands dirty at all, is as far as I'm concerned an absolute and utter disaster.

           I only wish more teachers would consider that practical experience is essential.  Well done!!   keep up the good work!!

          As a secondary note, I'd very much appreciate a link to your plans.... I'm seriously considering building a Ford Quadricycle here in the UK and your work seems to be an absolutely excellent starting point for me.

EDIT: *Many thanks for the link Chris.... the drawings are superb. Looking forward to watching your progress and referring to it to help with my own Quadricycle.*

Best Regards,
Julian.


----------



## Udo-Becker

Hi All,

please get in contact with me !

We are a small work-group : www.quadricycle-1896.de ( it's a draft-Version only in German )

Five years ago this work-group were founded :

Main target : To build a one to one copy of the original ( in fully running condition )

In the meantime we restored two Replicas were build in the 1981 by Ford Company Germany 

Best Regards
Udo


----------



## vascon2196

Hello Udo...I will contact you.

I'm sure we will have several questions once we begin troubleshooting the engine timing.

And I'm sure there will be other surprises as well...


----------



## Udo-Becker

Hi Chris,

attached you will find two Pictures !

Regards
Udo


----------



## vascon2196

Wow...it looks great!

I can't wait to get started on the engine.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Wow...it looks great!
> 
> I can't wait to get started on the engine.



Wow, is certainly right. I've been lurking here since the early days, just watching and trying not to get too enthused. But it is starting to get the better of me after seeing the photos of the replica above, watching videos on YouTube etc. I am certain yours won't be the only Quadricycle replica made from your drawings.

Chris, I sent you a PM re your CAD plans. Thank you for your generosity.

And thanks for making the effort, not only with the students, but also for sharing the building experience with all of us. A great thread.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


----------



## Udo-Becker

Hi All,

regarding the pictures above.
This car were build by the Ford Company / Germany ( 1981 )
It is one of two.
Our Workgroup restored both of These car. ( in fully running conditions )
In the meanwhile we bought the one above .
Next target : We will build a one to one copy, based on drawings from 1963.
This are the only drawings made from the original quadricycle , displayed at "The Henry Ford" in Dearborn.
Afterwards we will develop a assemply kit for the reason that everyone can produce there own car ( Scale 1 to 1. ) but in fully functional conditions.

If you want, you can use the link : www.quardicycle-1896.de.
It's a german version, but you can use the translation option of your browser. 

Regards
Udo


----------



## vascon2196

More progress from this month...well I have the next 7-weeks off for the summer so I won't be working on the Quadricycle...just mowing the grass and drinking a few brewskies!

I built the body and sets myself...along with the water jacket rings. A day student built drilled and tapped the water jacket holes.


----------



## vascon2196

A couple more...


----------



## chuck rhoades

A great build!

I'm gathering materials for my own build in the near future and was wondering what material you used for the cylinders. Is it DOM?

Are you going with the ignitor or sparkplug for your ignition?

I bought the plans from MR. DeAngelis but there are a lot of gaps that need to be filled. I am waiting for the day you post your plans.

Thanks for a great build and best of luck.


----------



## radial1951

Hi Chuck

Did you get your plans from George DeAngelis recently? If so, any problem contacting him? I believe he is getting on in years.

Yes this build is looking very interesting...

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_______________


----------



## chuck rhoades

I got them last week. I sent the check and they informed Dave Dunlavy who has the plans on his website. He will the send you a password to access them.


----------



## vascon2196

http://www.quadricycle.info/

Here is the link to the Dave Dunlavy site...he is building a Quadricycle replica which is looking amazing! He has also been helping us out at the college with some helpful information regarding his build.


----------



## vascon2196

chuck rhoades said:


> A great build!
> 
> I'm gathering materials for my own build in the near future and was wondering what material you used for the cylinders. Is it DOM?
> 
> Are you going with the ignitor or sparkplug for your ignition?
> 
> I bought the plans from MR. DeAngelis but there are a lot of gaps that need to be filled. I am waiting for the day you post your plans.
> 
> Thanks for a great build and best of luck.


 
I believe the cylinder tubing was DOM...I do not recall seeing a seam.
I am shooting for the original ignition but if it gives me any grief I plan on using a sparkplug.


----------



## radial1951

chuck rhoades said:


> I got them last week. I sent the check and they informed Dave Dunlavy who has the plans on his website. He will the send you a password to access them.


Hi Chuck

Thanks for that. Do I take it the plans are in PDF format for downloading? That would be a lot simpler than posting a heap of drawings to the other side of the Pacific Ocean.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


----------



## Udo-Becker

Hi All,
Regarding "original ignition"
again my post from 05-30-2013
-------------------------------------------
Hi All,
 regarding the pictures above.
 This car were build by the Ford Company / Germany ( 1981 )
 It is one of two.
 Our Workgroup restored both of These car. ( in fully running conditions )
 In the meanwhile we bought the one above .
 Next target : We will build a one to one copy, based on drawings from 1963.
 This are the only drawings made from the original quadricycle , displayed at "The Henry Ford" in Dearborn.
 Afterwards we will develop a assemply kit for the reason that everyone can produce there own car ( Scale 1 to 1. ) but in fully functional conditions.
 If you want, you can use the link : www.quardicycle-1896.de.
 It's a german version, but you can use the translation option of your browser. 
 Regards
 Udo 
--------------------------------------------------------
*This two Projects (restore) including the original ignition.
That means we know exactly what is needed to build the correct ignition inclusive the 
--- No spark plug --- 
We also rebuild the carburetor.*
If you Need some Support regarding this Topic, please let me know.
Regards 
Udo


----------



## chuck rhoades

radial1951 said:


> Hi Chuck
> 
> Thanks for that. Do I take it the plans are in PDF format for downloading? That would be a lot simpler than posting a heap of drawings to the other side of the Pacific Ocean.
> 
> Regards, RossG
> radial1951
> _____________


 I don't know the format but you do download them. Has something to do with google chrome. he sends everthing you need.


----------



## vascon2196

Udo-Becker said:


> Hi All,
> Regarding "original ignition"
> again my post from 05-30-2013
> -------------------------------------------
> Hi All,
> regarding the pictures above.
> This car were build by the Ford Company / Germany ( 1981 )
> It is one of two.
> Our Workgroup restored both of These car. ( in fully running conditions )
> In the meanwhile we bought the one above .
> Next target : We will build a one to one copy, based on drawings from 1963.
> This are the only drawings made from the original quadricycle , displayed at "The Henry Ford" in Dearborn.
> Afterwards we will develop a assemply kit for the reason that everyone can produce there own car ( Scale 1 to 1. ) but in fully functional conditions.
> If you want, you can use the link : www.quardicycle-1896.de.
> It's a german version, but you can use the translation option of your browser.
> Regards
> Udo
> --------------------------------------------------------
> *This two Projects (restore) including the original ignition.*
> *That means we know exactly what is needed to build the correct ignition inclusive the *
> *--- No spark plug --- *
> *We also rebuild the carburetor.*
> If you Need some Support regarding this Topic, please let me know.
> Regards
> Udo


 
Thank you Udo...it will be several months before my students are at that point but I will definitely get in touch with you if we run into any problems.


----------



## radial1951

chuck rhoades said:


> I don't know the format but you do download them. Has something to do with google chrome. he sends everthing you need.


Thanks Chuck. I will call George and hopefully be able to organise it. It seems the German team also used the George Deangelis drawings from 1963. The excitement is building...!

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


----------



## Udo-Becker

Hi All,
*regarding : The German team also used the George Deangelis drawings from 1963*
-----> Yes this is true we got the drawings in 2011, directly from Georg, we met him.

But in general to the history of Georg's drawings.
In 1963 ( 100. Birthday of Henry Ford ) there were three Projects worldwide.

- USA - Georg D'Angelis ( he was the only one who could touch the original )  
- UK - last Information I got : They builded three cars ( probably based on the drawings of Georg )
- Australia - They have built one car ( probably also based on the drawings of Georg )
All cars are still existing.
Currently I'm in contact with UK, to get pictures and documentations and
if possible, the story behind the project.
All this parts of history and Information around "the early Henry" will be stored in our Homepage : www.quadricycle-1896.de
But it will take some time.
Regards
Udo ( German-Team )


----------



## radial1951

Hi Chris

I was snooping around Google and found this nice Quadricycle in Australia. I am trying to track the owner down, and if he's not too far away (wishful thinking), it would be great to get a look and have a chat about it.

I have spoken to George DeAngelis and emailed him to hopefully simplify payment for the drawings. Being on the other side of the planet is a bit inconvenient. FYI the drawings are US$190.

You have done a great job on your CAD drgs. No doubt many hours put into them. Thanks.

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_____________


----------



## hi speed scrap

Hi Ross,
Is this any help?

http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/items/370636/motor-car-replica-ford-quadricycle-1896

Dave


----------



## vascon2196

radial1951 said:


> Hi Chris
> 
> I was snooping around Google and found this nice Quadricycle in Australia. I am trying to track the owner down, and if he's not too far away (wishful thinking), it would be great to get a look and have a chat about it.
> 
> I have spoken to George DeAngelis and emailed him to hopefully simplify payment for the drawings. Being on the other side of the planet is a bit inconvenient. FYI the drawings are US$190.
> 
> You have done a great job on your CAD drgs. No doubt many hours put into them. Thanks.
> 
> Regards, RossG.
> radial1951
> _____________


 
Thank you Ross...that is a great picture. The main reason I put the original drawings into SolidWorks is because that is what I do with every new engine or machine I build. It helps me look for interferences, fixturing ideas, assembly, or in my case the little modifications I made due to lack of machinery/tooling.

When the car is complete I will most likely revise the drawings to represent what we actually built.

I did not realize you were down under...very cool.

I'm glad we are all interested in the same project...it makes it easy when one of us bumps into a problem and we have knowledgeable people to ask questions.


----------



## vascon2196

Here are some of our latest pictures. The leaf springs were completed this morning. I am on my way to pick them up from the Palmer Spring Company in Providence Rhode Island!


----------



## Udo-Becker

hi speed scrap said:


> Hi Ross,
> Is this any help?
> 
> http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/items/370636/motor-car-replica-ford-quadricycle-1896
> 
> Dave


 
HI Ross, Dave,

the car displayed in the Victoria Museum is a "Long track Version" from 1963. It was a Project from the Ford-Company Australia.
I were in contact with the mueseum and received some Pictures and Details regarding the Story.
Your "green" car is a different car, please let me know if you find some Details around this car.
Udo (Germany)


----------



## radial1951

hi speed scrap said:


> Hi Ross,
> Is this any help?
> 
> http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/items/370636/motor-car-replica-ford-quadricycle-1896
> 
> Dave



G'day *Dave*

Thanks for the link. This all adds to the story. I'm planning to go to Melbourne in a few months and hope to get a look at it. I noticed a visitor's comment on the Museum site about another replica in Auckland, N.Z.

Udo's reference to an Aussie Quad started my local search which is how I found the "green" one. I managed to contact the owner/builder who is in Brisbane. This morning he kindly sent me some pics of the engine when it was under construction. Very nice...

*Chris*, that's excellent progress, the diff looks great. For those who can't view your drawings, there is a free viewer called *"SolidWorks eDrawings"* for Mac and Windoze. I am certain the work you have put into this thread will lead to quite a few Quads being built, I think at least one in Oz.

*Udo*, "Long track Version"? Perhaps "wheelbase"? The museum quad below appears to have a bit more foot room ahead of the seat. The scale has 10cm squares. It must be Ford-Australia's stretch limo version!

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
______________


----------



## Udo-Becker

radial1951 said:


> G'day *Dave*
> 
> Thanks for the link. This all adds to the story. I'm planning to go to Melbourne in a few months and hope to get a look at it. I noticed a visitor's comment on the Museum site about another replica in Auckland, N.Z.
> 
> Udo's reference to an Aussie Quad started my local search which is how I found the "green" one. I managed to contact the owner/builder who is in Brisbane. This morning he kindly sent me some pics of the engine when it was under construction. Very nice...
> 
> *Chris*, that's excellent progress, the diff looks great. For those who can't view your drawings, there is a free viewer called *"SolidWorks eDrawings"* for Mac and Windoze. I am certain the work you have put into this thread will lead to quite a few Quads being built, I think at least one in Oz.
> 
> *Udo*, "Long track Version"? Perhaps "wheelbase"? The museum quad below appears to have a bit more foot room ahead of the seat. The scale has 10cm squares. It must be Ford-Australia's stretch limo version!
> 
> Regards, RossG.
> radial1951
> ______________


 

Hi Ross,
Definition for "Long Track Version" :
The car were build for long runs.
Essential parts were change :
Cooling system,
Cylinder head,
Ignition system
Udo


----------



## Udo-Becker

Pictures from the "Australian" -- Long Track Version--
Victoria Museum

More Information : http://www.quadricycle-1896.de/weltweite-projekte/1963-australien/


----------



## vascon2196

Here are the Leaf Springs manufactured by the Palmer Spring Company in Providence Rhode Island. The owner's son graduated from our Mechanical Engineering Technology department several years ago! This particular company has been in business for a LONG time...supplying most of the covered wagons that traveled out west.


----------



## Udo-Becker

Hi All,

news about the Research : Project Ford -UK- 1963
Below you will find a press release and Pictures ( 1963-07-29 )

Link to our Homepage :
http://quadricycle-1896.de/weltweite-projekte/1963-england/


----------



## FozzyBear

vascon2196 said:


> Here are the Leaf Springs manufactured by the Palmer Spring Company in Providence Rhode Island. The owner's son graduated from our Mechanical Engineering Technology department several years ago! This particular company has been in business for a LONG time...supplying most of the covered wagons that traveled out west.



Nice! .....  this project of yours Chris, just keeps getting better. Being able to see you do this a step at a time is a true inspiration. Keep up the good work.  

I started on some of the engine parts for mine this week. Marked out and cut some of the bar steel to length and I'm waiting for the pipe to make the cylinders to arrive now. I'm just going with what works and looks near to correct. I'm not trying for 100% accurate replica. I've found most of the plumbing parts for the engine are available locally so this should go together relatively easily.  

I am cheating a little bit, in that I'm fitting roller races inside authentic looking bearing shells. That should improve the engine life and operation. I'm planning on doing much the same thing in the wheel bearings as well, where I'll be disguising some self aligning ball races.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)


----------



## vascon2196

Great idea Julian...I'm cheating in a few locations myself. I will be using John Deer tractor pistons instead of machining my own. There are also a few little things here and there that will end up being purchased components too but as a whole the car will look great in the end...I hope!


----------



## mnay

When I build my version, I would like to build 1/2 scale.  I live in the suburbs and have little storage space.
Has anyone attempted a scaled down version?
Mike in Salt Lake


----------



## Udo-Becker

vascon2196 said:


> Great idea Julian...I'm cheating in a few locations myself. I will be using John Deer tractor pistons instead of machining my own. There are also a few little things here and there that will end up being purchased components too but as a whole the car will look great in the end...I hope!


 
Hi all
Attention : Be careful with the piston.
We have restored two quadricycles (from Ford-Company of Germany builded in 1981).
We found out that only through the Oiler the lubrication is not sufficient.
The current new pistons are 2-stroke piston. (with fixed piston rings)
Diameter of the piston (63mm).
These Pistons were specially manufactured for us. 
Can be reordered.
With this solution we now drive mixed gasoline (1 to 100)
The advantage is better lubrication and hence a better cooling.
Please let me know if you need more Details.
Regards
Udo


----------



## radial1951

mnay said:


> When I build my version, I would like to build 1/2 scale.  I live in the suburbs and have little storage space.
> Has anyone attempted a scaled down version?
> Mike in Salt Lake



Hi Mike

The Spanish Replica Quad guys do a Mini Quad. I have no idea how good it is or the scale.
Have look here: quadricycle1896.com.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_______________


----------



## mnay

Thank you for the information.
Looks like a lot of work and a lot of fun
Mike


----------



## ausdier

G'day Chris,
Just a couple of shots of where my virtual build is up to. 
Cheers.


----------



## vascon2196

Nice job with that!

 Great detail!

I will have to post my SolidWorks assembly someday.


----------



## FozzyBear

vascon2196 said:


> I will have to post my SolidWorks assembly someday.



Yeah! you should do that Chris.  I've only found a couple of dimensioning errors in the drawings. Very small errors and immediately obvious. Other than that my build is starting to take shape.  I finally got the cylinders machined up and I found a couple of alloy motorcycle pistons and a set of rings that will work really well.  

I figure that If I run the engine on 80% Methanol,  5% Petrol (Gasoline) and 15% Oil (maybe castor oil) then it should cure all the lubrication and temperature problems that I've heard of other people having. It'll burn cleaner too. 

Adding the oil like a two stroke mix, should lubricate the cylinders much better and much more evenly than the drip feed oilers. Although I'll fit them anyway, because they look right.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)


----------



## FQ1

Hi my name is Graham new here I want to build the Ford Quadricycle I have 2 Q I trying to fine size of wheel hubs and drawings and also what was the length of the frame and how wide ?

Thank you  I live in UK


----------



## vascon2196

My SolidWorks just expired and I am in the process of upgrading so I cannot open my drawings. Once I can I'll send you the info...unless someone else has the information readily available.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> My SolidWorks just expired and I am in the process of upgrading so I cannot open my drawings. Once I can I'll send you the info...unless someone else has the information readily available.



Hi Chris and Graham

*Chris*, I downloaded all of your Quadricycle SolidWorks drawings (73 files at the time) and can view them at any time using SolidWorks eDrawings, which is a free download.

The wheel hub drg file is P-0008_hub.slddrw the main part of the frame is P-0102.slddrw "Frame Weldment" and is 71" long. The Engine Frame bolts on the back end, increasing the length, but I couldn't see the drawing for that.

Below is what the drawings look like, not sure if you will be able to read them... the lower frame drawing is the side view and is at a different scale due to my partial screen grab. Overall length is actually the same i.e. 71 inches.

*Graham*, I could email these files to you but you will have to download SolidWorks eDrawing to view them. Let me know if you want them.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

Ross....thanks for doing this. I just upgraded to SW 2013-2014 yesterday and I have been up to my elbows with a job transition.

Hopefully before the end of the summer I can save all of those SW drawings as a DXF or DWG which will be nice for AutoCAD users.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Ross....thanks for doing this. I just upgraded to SW 2013-2014 yesterday and I have been up to my elbows with a job transition.
> 
> Hopefully before the end of the summer I can save all of those SW drawings as a DXF or DWG which will be nice for AutoCAD users.



No problem Chris

I sent the SolidWorks eDrawings link by PM to Graham, here it is for other Quadricyclists:

http://www.edrawingsviewer.com/ed/solidworks-viewer.htm Just download the free viewer, it should work.

Can you simply save the SW drawings as DXF at the time of drawing? Or is it easier to stick with *.ssddrw for editing/creation? I try to use (slowly!) ACad 2002 on my Mac... just basic 2D drawing.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

radial1951 said:


> Can you simply save the SW drawings as DXF at the time of drawing? Or is it easier to stick with *.ssddrw for editing/creation? I try to use (slowly!) ACad 2002 on my Mac... just basic 2D drawing.
> 
> Regards, RossG
> radial1951
> _____________


 
Normally I stick with SW drawings because they are "connected" to the 3D model and it makes for easy modifications. The full version of SW will allow you to save a drawing in almost any format...DXF, DWG, and even PDF for people who do not have a CAD system.


----------



## vascon2196

Here is a link to the Henry Ford Museum website...we are featured on their BLOG! Our students are very excited!

http://blog.thehenryford.org/2013/0...-rhode-island-establishes-a-quadricycle-club/


----------



## vascon2196

I wanted to share this link with everyone. We landed a spot on the Henry Ford Museum Blog!

http://blog.thehenryford.org/2013/0...-rhode-island-establishes-a-quadricycle-club/

Also, many individuals have contacted me regarding DXF, DWG, or PDF files of the SolidWorks drawings I created. I am currently switching careers from teaching higher education to a vocational technical high school for Drafting.

Once I settle in, I will create DXF and PDF versions of the Quadricycle drawings. Remember, they are slightly different than the original plans made by George DeAngelis. If you want original 2D plans, contact George.

I plan on machining the Crankshaft this month...I will be making it from 4130 PRE-HT. Hopefully I don't screw up the threads! (get it...screw...threads...)


----------



## vascon2196

It has been a while since I posted pictures of our Quadricycle Club project...but it has been a while since I have had help from my students! My free time does not coincide with their free time this semester, so maybe this Fall I will get some help.

So these next few parts I decided to make.

I finally added the mounting holes in the Main Bearings (my students were amazed that the mill could pivot). I found out that I bored the bushing hole too large in one of the Main Bearings so I had to make a custom bushing.

Just today I started the Crankshaft...all that is left is the keyways.

Here you go!


----------



## lindomar

Thank you Chris.


----------



## FQ1

lindomar said:


> Thank you Chris.


I wish to thank Chris for all his kindness also very helpful and kind person


----------



## Rexxie

Hi All, 

I just wanted to post up my progress on the Quadricycle full scale I'm building. Basically all fabricated -- no CNC unfortunately. 
So I am using the advice I got here -- thanks very much!
You can see the engine I've built, and the body work. A local bike shop made the wheels from 29'er mountain bike rims and the hubs I machined. 

I'd appreciate some info on 
1. how to mount the carburetor to the engine and 
2. how it aspirates into the manifold. 
3. I'm also short on information for the coil, ignition system and 
4. the type of spark plugs.
5. Do they use a high tension ignition or low tension?

So basically I'd really appreciate any advice on these that I can get!!

Thanks for your help.

Rex


----------



## stevehuckss396

plenty of progress made. Looking good.


----------



## lindomar

Fantastic.... Rexxie


----------



## FannBlade

WOW!! Nice work. Any thoughts on the reflective white walls or are you going to leave them as is?


----------



## vascon2196

Rexxie said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just wanted to post up my progress on the Quadricycle full scale I'm building. Basically all fabricated -- no CNC unfortunately.
> So I am using the advice I got here -- thanks very much!
> You can see the engine I've built, and the body work. A local bike shop made the wheels from 29'er mountain bike rims and the hubs I machined.
> 
> I'd appreciate some info on
> 1. how to mount the carburetor to the engine and
> 2. how it aspirates into the manifold.
> 3. I'm also short on information for the coil, ignition system and
> 4. the type of spark plugs.
> 5. Do they use a high tension ignition or low tension?
> 
> So basically I'd really appreciate any advice on these that I can get!!
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Rex



Rex,

Great job with your Quad! You are much farther along with your build than we are at the college...unfortunately I don't have those answers...YET.

As soon as we start putting the engine together, I will have more information.

Great job!


----------



## vascon2196

FannBlade said:


> WOW!! Nice work. Any thoughts on the reflective white walls or are you going to leave them as is?



The white walls look sharp!


----------



## Rexxie

Yes, the white walls look a bit much in the photos.  

Not as bad in real life. 

Thanks for the comments.  I'm a bit puzzled by those questions I posted above.  Any of you guys who've had a recent look at the quadricycle in museums any ideas on the carburetor?

Rex.


----------



## vascon2196

Rex,

My assumptions are it is very crude. Both air and fuel enter the carb and the fule intak can be adjusted with a set screw (from the side). If you look at pictures and videos online, you can see a small steel rod that is bent and guided directly from the carb to the seat.

By pulling (or pushing) the rod it allows more or less air into the engine.

Once again...just assumptions.


----------



## FQ1

Hi Can anyone talk to me ref Wheels sizes and breaks I am trying the work out how to stop it. Anyone got drawings or a sketch of the way the disc is fitted to the rear  please.  :wall: any help very welcome 

Graham


----------



## vascon2196

I do not think there are any brake discs for the Quadricycle.


----------



## steamdean

Hi Chris, thanks for sending me the link to the plans, all downloaded and looked at about 40 times. You are a true gent. good luck with the rest of your build, and I'll be watching with interest.
Dean


----------



## radial1951

FQ1 said:


> Hi Can anyone talk to me ref Wheels sizes and breaks I am trying the work out how to stop it. Anyone got drawings or a sketch of the way the disc is fitted to the rear  please.  :wall: any help very welcome
> Graham



Hi Graham

Henry's original Quad didn't have brakes. He had 2 speeds, with high range driven off the OD of the flywheel. The replicas built these days use the small wood high speed pulley for a band brake controlled from the belt tensioning lever. See photo below.

These are great web sites for Quad info, worth spending the time to go through them, lots of photos etc :

http://quadricycle.info  and  http://www.quadricycle1896.com/index.html

The movie from the 1960s of George DeAngelis driving his replica at Greenfield Village is a beauty. He is driving it in low range (there is no belt on the flywheel). It putt-putts along very nicely. It would fly in high range 

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


----------



## FQ1

radial1951 said:


> Hi Graham
> 
> Henry's original Quad didn't have brakes. He had 2 speeds, with high range driven off the OD of the flywheel. The replicas built these days use the small wood high speed pulley for a band brake controlled from the belt tensioning lever. See photo below.
> 
> These are great web sites for Quad info, worth spending the time to go through them, lots of photos etc :
> 
> http://quadricycle.info  and  http://www.quadricycle1896.com/index.html
> 
> The movie from the 1960s of George DeAngelis driving his replica at Greenfield Village is a beauty. He is driving it in low range (there is no belt on the flywheel). It putt-putts along very nicely. It would fly in high range
> 
> Regards, RossG
> radial1951
> _____________




Thank you so much is there anymore photos of this all round photos ? Please
where is the control to this or how is the brake app .   Graham


----------



## radial1951

FQ1 said:


> Thank you so much is there anymore photos of this all round photos ? Please
> where is the control to this or how is the brake app .   Graham



Hi Graham

Go to the 2 websites I posted before. There are lots of photos of almost every part of the Qudricycle. Have a look at the videos, you can see the control lever being used to start the Quad moving. (It's the tall lever in front of the driver)

The arm with the small tensioning pulley and the arm with the brake band are fixed on the same shaft. As the main control lever releases the tensioning pulley on the drive belt, it starts to tighten the leather brake band around the brake pulley.

Pull back on the main lever to tension the drive belt to start moving. Push forward on the main lever to release the drive tension and apply the brake. Half way is like neutral, no drive and no brake.

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
______________


----------



## vascon2196

Just for fun...why not.

http://youtu.be/O-4p_CdI_zk


----------



## vascon2196




----------



## FQ1

H Guys   why do I see a leather belt going round the fly wheel ? what is this driving ?


----------



## vascon2196

The leather belt is driving the Jackshaft. There is a sprocket on the Jackshaft and there is a sprocket on the rear axle (differential). The flywheel is always spinning...when the clutch is engaged (when the leather grips the flywheel), it drives the Jackshaft which then drives the rear axle.


----------



## radial1951

Henry's original Quad has 2 speeds. And no brakes! Low speed is the belt on the small pulley next to the flywheel, high speed uses the belt on the flywheel rim to the other small pulley on the jackshaft.

If you carefully watch the video of the Greenfield Villiage replica driven by George DeAngelis, you will see that it is in low range and scoots along nicely. He doesn't appear to have a high speed belt on it, and appears to have a brake on the other small pulley, very difficult to see in the rear view showing the engine running. 

If that IS low gear, then high range would frighten a Formula 1 driver 

Regards, RossG. 
Radial1951
_____________


----------



## FQ1

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1zeos489Uo[/ame]

I see below this guy is not using a belt on fly wheel

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYNge9r1Yi4[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MGLGQYonsg[/ame]

I am trying to find drawings for the Diff and sizes also for all the pulley wheels steel and wooden. I want to build my Quad wider to get two Bums on the seat.

anyone got drawings that shows very clear the fly wheel Im trying to get my head around it. Thank you everyone for your help and support. I ask 5 times and get it right once always best to learn.

Im getting my knickers in a twist ref drawings  I see there is 3 main drawing out there and many changes made on the first drawings.  

Has anyone got photos or drawing of the Diff sizes ref the Diff also what OD is the axle.

My steel comes today to start building my frame   Ill be happy to get started.

Also Wheels and Hud,s  I want to build 26in wheels. Anyone knows the gauge for the spokes used in the wheel making.

I take it each wheel needs to stand 360lbs per wheels  ?


----------



## macmarch

My fault for twisting your knickers.  I've got so many pics and files that I have ended up putting the wrong dwgs with the wrong pics.  I'll get them sorted. I've got very pics of the diff but I need to know the ratio.  Is it 2:1 or 3:1 or 4:1?

R

Forgot to ask.  From your experience how long do the rear axle bearing blocks last? Can I use needle bearings with a hardened and ground inner liner on the shaft?


----------



## steamdean

Hi there, I am planing to build one of these. I will be in touch the the UK builders when I get stuck. Would be nice to see how many Quadricycles can be built in England. Will also be looking at what others have done. One of the good things to come out of the Internet age, is that it makes passing on information much more simple. Was looking at this video, some good tips on it about the engine. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVFCDI6y5xE[/ame]


----------



## vascon2196

Awesome!!!!


----------



## Udo-Becker

steamdean said:


> Hi there, I am planing to build one of these. I will be in touch the the UK builders when I get stuck. Would be nice to see how many Quadricycles can be built in England. Will also be looking at what others have done. One of the good things to come out of the Internet age, is that it makes passing on information much more simple. Was looking at this video, some good tips on it about the engine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVFCDI6y5xE


 

Hallo Steam,
please get in contact with me.
www.quadricycle-1896.de
Udo Becker
I have Information regarding a UK - Project ( 1963 )
Five years ago we started our own Project to rebuild a quadricycle.
Regards
Udo Becker
Germany


----------



## FQ1

macmarch said:


> My fault for twisting your knickers.  I've got so many pics and files that I have ended up putting the wrong dwgs with the wrong pics.  I'll get them sorted. I've got very pics of the diff but I need to know the ratio.  Is it 2:1 or 3:1 or 4:1?
> 
> R
> 
> Forgot to ask.  From your experience how long do the rear axle bearing blocks last? Can I use needle bearings with a hardened and ground inner liner on the shaft?




Not at all Ray we do Have a lot of info maybe to much info that's why we need a clear plan to work to.

1 frame 
2 axles 
wheels

Once together we come to a set of plans we will follow together then we are off.

For me I need help ref a stock list for making the 4 wheels  anyone got that info ?

macmarch  (Ray) and I are building one in UK like to meet any other builders in UK for a chat.

Thank you everyone     Graham


----------



## kawa636

Hello Chris,
Your work on this quad is really great.
I plan to also build a replica of Ford quadricycle.
You specify that plans are available on your website (01-31-2013). I can not find the address of that website. Can you help me?
Excuse me for the bad English, I wrote to you from France.

Didier


----------



## vascon2196

This pesky drawing has been kicking around a while...I finally decided to make it. I started with a 1/8" diameter x 2-1/8" long piece of brass and turned a sharp taper on one end. I then took a 3/16" diameter piece of brass and threaded it to #10-32, drilled and reamed for 1/8", then parted it off. Lastly, I soldered it in place approximately 1/2" from the top.


----------



## vascon2196

Here are a few recent pictures of our Quadricycle...slowly pecking away part by part. The main bearings were finally fastened to the cylinders. Next the water jackets and rear cylinder support will be welded.


----------



## radial1951

Hi Chris

Good job, it's starting to look like an engine! It will be a nice contrast to leave the hi-tech look of CNC machining and SS screws against the bed-iron chassis and tiller steering. I think Henry would approve.

Have you considered any alternative to welding the water jackets to the cylinders? Soldering, modern adhesives? How was the original done? Did I read somewhere that the Quad didn't have water cooling at first, but it was added after Henry found that it was overheating? I just worry about distortion of the cylinders&#8230;

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
______________


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks for the kind words Ross.

I don't particularly like welded parts because I don't weld. The fact that I can't weld bums me out....BUT I have several students who enjoy welding so I let them have at it.

True, the original Quadricycle did not have water jackets...that was a modification done by Ford. He actually modified the Quadricycle several times until he moved on to his 1901 Quadricycle.

I thought about soldering it but I am not sure how hot the cylinders get. JB Weld would also work but too much heat would cause the JB weld to smolder and probably flake off. "Dave Dunlavy" in PA used silver solder I think...I'll check it out again to find out for sure.

If we can attach the water jackets without welding...I'm all ears.


----------



## radial1951

Hi Chris

Actually Dave Dunlavy soft soldered the water jackets to the cylinders, see pic below. The water fittings for the pipe connections were silver soldered. 

Soft solder should take the heat just fine, after all, many millions of car radiators are soft soldered together. The brass top tank gets the hot water straight from the engine.

The other alternative is to somehow lock the sleeves in place on the cylinders, perhaps a few short tack welds, and externally seal the joint with high temp RTV Silicone. Your coolant system won't be pressurised so there is no load as such on the sealing medium.

Does George DeAngelis show how the jackets were fitted on his 1963 replicas? Maybe Udo Becker of the German Quad Team could advise how he has done it before. Here is a pic of the replica made by Ford in Australia, but the sealing method is not apparent.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
____________


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Ross....I do have access to all those pictures and have studied them for a while. I'm thinking silver solder is the way to go...Dave looked like he used a giant heavy duty soldering iron. Some heavy duty irons heat up to about 1,160F.

I like this idea because I can do it myself...and if I screw it up it would be easier to fix than a permanent weld.

Thanks for the pics.


----------



## steamdean

That's looking like a nice engine. I too like the old and new together. How can anyone who can do all this not be able to weld, I have only one word to say about that "LEARN"
Found this website about Joel Pennington, who did the article that inspired Henry to build his engine. If the discription is any thing to go by, no wonder he had to make a few alterations. http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/founding_fathers_edward_pennington.htm

Dean M


----------



## vascon2196

Dean,

Thanks for the link...that was some really interesting material.


----------



## vascon2196

mnay said:


> When I build my version, I would like to build 1/2 scale.  I live in the suburbs and have little storage space.
> Has anyone attempted a scaled down version?
> Mike in Salt Lake



Mike,

I am currently designing a 1/2 scale version of the engine. I'm just working out some of the little details but am almost ready to start buying stock. Yes, I am still in the middle of this full-size version but I don't get to keep that one!

The half-scale engine will be small enough for me to take to local shows.

I'll post pictures eventually.


----------



## mnay

Chris,
This one is on my bucket list.  Please keep me posted on the 1/2 scale version.
Thanks for sharing your work with us.
Mike


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Mike,
> 
> I am currently designing a 1/2 scale version of the engine. I'm just working out some of the little details but am almost ready to start buying stock. Yes, I am still in the middle of this full-size version but I don't get to keep that one!
> 
> The half-scale engine will be small enough for me to take to local shows.
> 
> I'll post pictures eventually.



Hi Chris,  that's a great idea and a manageable project. Half scale will be just nice to carry around.

You have probably seen this one from Spain, http://www.quadricycle1896.com/en/home.html , go to "products". Looks a bit bigger than half size, but nicely done.

With various small (and very small) sparks plugs available, they could be completely hidden and it would look just like Henry's. You can also get cheap single and multi cylinder electronic ignition systems, matchbox size, and run for hours on 4-8v. If you run it on methanol with 2-3% oil it will run cooler than petrol (gas) and then you could use a carby off a nitro engine hidden inside a brass block and... oops getting carried away here    lots of ideas...

Yet another project to add to my endless list. What are the main specs, overall dimensions etc ? Looking forward to lots of info and pics.

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

Hi Ross,

Thanks for the input. Yes, this half-scale will open up all kinds of possibilities...I'm looking forward to starting it.

I attached a picture of the half-scale Quadricycle engine so far. I'm going to make the main bearings out of Aluminum instead of cast bronze like the original. I plan on chucking a piece of aluminum stock in a 4-jaw, drilling & boring to suit the cylinder, and then saw cut in half resulting in (2) bearings. (I hope)

The flywheel will now be around 9" in diameter, main bearings about 4" long, intake and exhaust ports now 1/8" NPT, Cylinder diameter 1.25". I did see the "small" version of the engine the guys in Spain build...very cool.


----------



## cam081

great work I may just have to hold off on building mine till you have done yours. cam


----------



## vascon2196

I just bought the Franklin Mint, 1896 Ford Quadricycle. I have wanted this since I ran across it on the internet but it's hard to find (and usually expensive). I'm hoping it will give me some inspiration to hurry up and build the real one.

The details are amazing.


----------



## vascon2196

Not much progress.....but its progress none the less!




Exhaust head being machining




Steering lever welded and ready for machining


----------



## vascon2196

Lots of progress today on the Quadricycle. One of the exhaust headers is complete, the muffler body was faced to length, and some connecting rod parts were started!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Great progress. NICE shop. Is it on the second floor of the building?


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you Steve....yes it is on the second floor of the building.

Even after the entire engineering department as well as many other individuals warned "them" from placing all those machines on the second floor...they put them there anyway.

Right above the library!

The building crew added structural support beneath the shop and assured us we would not fall through the floor....so far so good.


----------



## vascon2196

The engine cylinders, water jackets, and cylinder brackets were welded today by a 15 year old Sophomore girl! The main shaft rotates perfectly and everything is nice and square.

She is a student in the metal fabrication and welding shop at Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School....she was very proud of herself.

Now my students from New England Tech will take over from here!


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> The engine cylinders, water jackets, and cylinder brackets were welded today by a 15 year old Sophomore girl! The main shaft rotates perfectly and everything is nice and square.
> 
> She is a student in the metal fabrication and welding shop at Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School....she was very proud of herself.
> 
> Now my students from New England Tech will take over from here!



Hi Chris

WOW! Just look at the welds on the water jackets. Perfect! Anything less than perfect and the Quad won't be a runner.

I hope you have some pics of the welding being done, especially one of the welder with her handiwork. 

She deserves to be be immortalised here for her contribution to this Quad Replica.

Actually it would be nice to see photos of all contributors. How about one of the teacher with some students in the workshop? This is a real people project, thanks to you, Chris. 

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you Ross!

I'll do my best regarding pictures...the high school can be very protective of their students and I don't know what the rules say.

However, my college students would not mind a group picture...I'll see what I can do!


----------



## Shopguy

The lady is one fine welder.  Two thumbs up.  
Ernie J


----------



## steamdean

Not bad, for a girl anyway. which reminds me, "must get better at welding".  

Dean M


----------



## cfellows

I'd say that welding job deserves a gold star!  Far, far better than anything I could do...

 Chuck


----------



## vascon2196

Just had this part made by 10th graders at Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School in Rochester, Massachusetts. Carpentry students laminated the Maple and Machine and Tool students machined it on one of their South Bend lathes!

This is still a New England Tech project but we are running out of time! I have to start out-sourcing some of these parts to make things move a little quicker.

So now we have high school students collaborating with college students!


----------



## Hugorittener

Hi, I'm new and I wanted to know how the rear wheels are fixed? By clamping?, Keying? 
It would be very useful. 
Sorry for the text I am Swiss and I speak French. 
greeting thank you in advance


----------



## vascon2196

One rear wheel is free spinning and the drive wheel hub is keyed and pinned. I'll try and find a drawing that explains this better.


----------



## Hugorittener

Sorry I can not open your files, you can just tell me the means of attachment of the rear wheels? 
greeting 
Thank you in advance


----------



## vascon2196

Attached is a PDF drawing of the rear drive wheel details.

Hope this helps. 

View attachment DIFFERENTIAL ASSEMBLY.PDF


----------



## vascon2196

Lot's of great progress this morning on the full scale Quadricycle. We got the drive pulley broached and assembled the custom washers.

Last week we sand blasted and painted the frame.

The body and seat have been painted.

The chain has been installed and fit.

The differential hub has been marked and pinned to the rear axle.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Lot's of great progress this morning on the full scale Quadricycle. We got the drive pulley broached and assembled the custom washers.
> 
> Last week we sand blasted and painted the frame.
> 
> The body and seat have been painted.
> 
> The chain has been installed and fit.
> 
> The differential hub has been marked and pinned to the rear axle.



Wow Chris, that is real progress! Must be a thrill for the students to see it coming together. I can't wait 'til you can slip the wheels under it and see you guys having rides around the carpark! Well done to them and yourself.

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks again! The frustrating part for me is that only 1 or 2 students show up to participate and we only have 3 meetings per semester. I moved the meetings to Saturday's so more students could attend.

The students that do show up have been a huge help and yes....have done a great job!


----------



## vascon2196

We finally completed the Upper and Lower Spring Blocks!

(Actually it was the high school Carpentry students from Old Colony Voc-Tech in Rochester, Massachusetts)

But our New England Tech college students will be taking it from here!


----------



## johnmcc69

Fantastic work there Chris! That's some great group effort.

Do you have the entire Quadricycle assembly modeled up in SolidWorks?

John


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you John!

Yes I have the entire assembly in Solid Works...there are a couple of components missing here and there but the important things are there.


----------



## johnmcc69

That's some nice modeling Chris, it looks great!

Can't wait to see the real thing running!

John


----------



## vascon2196

I held our first Quadricycle Club meeting of the Summer semester yesterday and only 1 student showed up 

The good news is we were able to make (1) part, the Timing Gear Stud.

We also drilled and tapped the timing gear stud mounting hole into the main bearing. We fixed the large gear in the machine spindle and lined up the 2 gears until they meshed perfectly.

You will notice the tapped hole is not on center with the boss on the main bearing. Either the CAD drawing was wrong or the MasterCam file was wrong. Either way it is a good thing I waited until both gears were complete to locate this tapped hole!

Next time we will try to make the eccentric and eccentric strap so we can finally mount the Flywheel!




Video of gears in mesh


----------



## sparknspin

Hi Cris, from Vancouver, Washington 
I have been watching your Quadricycle build for quite some time and its great to see that you instill the value of craftsmanship in your students. I've always felt that high quality work is a direct reflection on the character of the person producing it.
I have been trying to build a quarter scale Quadricycle engine from viewing pictures of the full size version. Your build thread has shed light on how the heads are designed and the eccentric cam arrangement. "Neat stuff"
Though out the build you mentioned plans were available, if they are I would surly appreciate a copy of the full scale or the half scale plans.
Good work,
Vern


----------



## vascon2196

Vern...thank you so much!

The original plans can be purchased through Dave Dunlavy at [email protected]

He is in contact with George DeAngelis who created the original plans.

Good luck!


----------



## sparknspin

Thanks for the info. I'll check those out.
I do have a question if you don't mind, Did you cut your own gears? and how did you calculate the off set of the eccentric cam to allow the proper valve opening?
vern


----------



## vascon2196

Hi Vern,

I purchased the gears from Boston Gear...I was a machine designer before I started machining so I will most probably never machine my own gears if I can buy them. The original plans detail the eccentric and timing.

Attached is the contact information and instructions for purchasing the original plans in a PDF format.

Hopefully this helps! 

View attachment Quadricycle plans explanation.pdf


----------



## Rexxie01

It runs but does not drive well. 

Needs a smaller drive sprocket ... maybe 7 teeth not 12.  

All hand fabricated --- if you are wondering why the engine looks a bit rough.

Rex


----------



## vascon2196

Rex...that looks amazing! 

It looks great and runs...sounds like success to me.

Thank you for sharing.


----------



## vascon2196

Well we had our second Quadricycle Club meeting of the Summer 2014 semester and again only 1 student showed up. She was able to complete the threaded washer for the flywheel which was great and together we modified the rims.

Every single eyelet on the rim had to be removed and the hole enlarged for the spoke nipples...that was a pain. I used a step drill commonly used to make holes in sheet metal...it worked awesome.

These are the exact same rims, spokes, nipples, tubes, and tires that Dave Dunlavy used on his Quad.

Then I called every bike shop in the area to see who could build these tires for me and nobody wanted to do it...they said it was not worth their time. Sooooooooo....I struggled and struggled until a few hours later (and beers), I finished 1 rim. Not sure if it is true or balanced but it is together.

Attached are some pics.




Rims modified




Showing the custom enlarged 40 spoke holes




Spoke arrangement












NEIT student working on the threaded washer with 1-1/8"-12 thread




Almost done!

Next meeting I hope to tackle the timing parts (eccentric and strap).


----------



## Swifty

Nice spoked wheel, when I tightened my motorbike spoked wheels, I tapped each spoke with a spanner and listened to the "ting" that it made, any flat sounding ones needed tightening. Of course they were already mounted and running true, I can imagine the headache trying to get everything lined up and true. 

It's a shame that you don't get more students turn up, although the female student in the picture seems keen. Do the classes count towards anything or is it just a voluntary thing?

Paul.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Paul...the club is voluntary.

I just imagined more students being involved since it is a great mechanical project.

At least I'm having fun!


----------



## Rexxie01

vascon2196 said:


> Rex...that looks amazing!
> 
> It looks great and runs...sounds like success to me.
> 
> Thank you for sharing.



Thanks for the positive comment.  Check this video of it running -- but not driving....

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZ9e-0Aq10[/ame]

As you can see I've put a starter on it -- I'm a bit old to be using crank handles.


----------



## Rexxie01

vascon2196 said:


> Then I called every bike shop in the area to see who could build these tires for me and nobody wanted to do it...they said it was not worth their time. Sooooooooo....I struggled and struggled until a few hours later (and beers), I finished 1 rim. Not sure if it is true or balanced but it is together.



That is very disappointing.  My son is involved with mountain biking and one of the young guys in the bike shops was really keen to help out.  He recon's the whole project is very "Steam Punk".

Good kid, and a big help.


----------



## etard

I would call the local shops again and say that you have laced the rims, all you need is a true and balance.  Most bike shops recommend that you lace it as they have to charge shop time for lacing, and as you found out, it can be time consuming.  You may have to make an axle adapter for their truing stand.

Or you can make your own stand fairly easily, especially since you know a few good welders and you have all those machines to use!


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you! I just finished the second rim and yes, I think a local bike shop would be willing to balance them.

We'll see!


----------



## steamdean

Still loving this build Chris, Keep it up and can't wait to see it run. I'm sure after all that you have done, you could true and balance the wheels yourself. How hard can it be. The female student you have, looks like she knows her way around a workshop. She is also showing the lads up a bit, make me wonder if our hobby will still be around in twenty years time.

Keep plodding. :wall:

Dean M


----------



## vascon2196

I have an evening student that has a Mill and Lathe at home. He offered to make some parts at home so I took him up on his offer!

He finished the front steering axle and the connecting rods!


----------



## FannBlade

vascon2196 said:


> He offered to make some parts at home so I took him up on his offer!



Looks like good choice!!


----------



## vascon2196

4 students showed up to our latest Quadricycle Club meeting! We were able to complete the timing rod clevis bracket and finished the last rim! We are almost finished with the timing eccentric, eccentric strap, and muffler end caps.

Anyone near East Greenwich Rhode Island feel like contributing to this project? We have many more parts to make, lots of drawings, lots of tools, and plenty of stock!


----------



## stevehuckss396

vascon2196 said:


> Anyone near East Greenwich Rhode Island feel like contributing to this project? We have many more parts to make, lots of drawings, lots of tools, and plenty of stock!




Do we have to be near East Greenwich? Can we make the part and send it to you?


----------



## vascon2196

Steve...great question!

I have no problem with that!

I can see which parts would be difficult for us to make and run them by you. If you have the stock (and time) that would be a huge help!

Even if you made 1 small part you could always say that you helped us get one step closer to building Henry Ford's Quadricycle!

Thanks Steve and please let me know!

Chris


----------



## radial1951

stevehuckss396 said:


> Do we have to be near East Greenwich? Can we make the part and send it to you?



Steve, what a great idea! There must be lots of small-ish parts that can be made almost anywhere and posted to Chris. Even from Down Under! Having all those small parts ready at hand during final assembly could be a big help.

Chris, that is of course, that you wouldn't mind having some non-USA-made bits in your Ford Quad Replica! I wouldn't want to cause an international incident!

Regards, RossG
radial1951
____________


----------



## vascon2196

Hi Ross,

I think Henry Ford would be happy to see so much excitement over his Quadricycle...and I have absolutely no problem having parts made from down under or anywhere else!

Thanks again guys!

My students are very excited!!!


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Hi Ross,
> 
> I think Henry Ford would be happy to see so much excitement over his Quadricycle...and I have absolutely no problem having parts made from down under or anywhere else!
> 
> Thanks again guys!
> 
> My students are very excited!!!



Hi Chris,

I think it would be pretty cool to make a part for an 1896 Ford on my 1913 Pratt & Whitney lathe...  

Nothing too testing for the old girl (or the operator!). If you can PM me an email contact we can organise it.

Steve, I hope there will be a good response to your suggestion, it will certainly add an extra dimension to this worthwhile project. Just thinking, don't all the helpers get to have a drive when it's finished?   

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

Sounds great Ross...Let me see what little pieces we have left to make and I'll send you a private message.

Wow...thanks again guys for the support.


----------



## StrawCat

I've just looked through all the pages and postings for this worthwhile project, and have enjoyed this. 

First-off, I would like to point out that for any student participating in this club actively, a reference to that participation can be a bonus when applying for work after school is finished. I know I'd give preference to any engineering student who was a part of this if I were in a position to hire any. 

Secondly here's a link to the Smithsonian Institution's web pages showing other automobiles like this that are in  their automobile collection, dating from 1866 onwards. 
Anyone who has been following this project will find some nice eye candy here, I'm sure. I'm sure many of you will be aware of this collection and what it contains, but I thought I'd pass it along anyways, just in case.... 

http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/themes/story_78_1.html

Cheers,

Chris Green.


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you Chris!

I'll pass on the information to my students.


----------



## Toolguy

I will volunteer to make a part or 2. I will help with or without recognition or pay.

It might be nice if those helping could get a certificate (suitable for framing) that they helped with the project. Maybe with a picture of the finished project covering the page with the printing over the picture. It could be a generic one with a blank space to fill in each person's name. You could even email them and let the recipient print it out to save on postage.


----------



## parthmehd

What fantastic work and what an inspiring project ! Its 1.15 at night here in India, but I just could not prevent myself from reading everything that's posted and just sitting back and admiring the work done by you and your students ! 

Chris, could you please send me a link to the plans ? I am completely new to the hobby, but would love to start out on my first model engine and hopefully build this with my son some day ! 

What incredible work ! A special congratulations to all your students and a special thanks to you for getting such a wonderful project executed and generously sharing your plans with everyone.

All the very best for the rest of the project. I will be following your progress with great interest and fascination !

Parth


----------



## StrawCat

vascon2196 said:


> Thank you Chris!
> 
> I'll pass on the information to my students.



Thank You. I'm glad to share knowledge when I can. (What's the point of learning something if you don't use it and share it later??) 
And I'd like to pass along my compliments to the students who designed and built that cool building jig. THAT one really appeals to my woodworking/ construction side.  

It would be really cool if the next generation Quadracycle-like project could be a D.I.Y. electric car, if possible. I might actually be able to score an inexpensive buzz-box and to learn some welding by then...  


Cheers,

Chris Green.


----------



## vascon2196

Toolguy said:


> I will volunteer to make a part or 2. I will help with or without recognition or pay.
> 
> It might be nice if those helping could get a certificate (suitable for framing) that they helped with the project. Maybe with a picture of the finished project covering the page with the printing over the picture. It could be a generic one with a blank space to fill in each person's name. You could even email them and let the recipient print it out to save on postage.



Thank you Toolguy!

Let me see what small parts I have left...the certificate is a good idea too.


----------



## Motormagican

This has been a great build to follow. I live in Texas, retired and if you have a small part needing a volunteer I would like to volunteer.No pay required. Trying to keep busy here at the house. Again, your students and you are doing a great job. Danny


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello Chris!


I know it's way too early but let me just plant a little seed. When she is running maybe you could bring her up for the Maker Faire 2015 or 2016. It's at the Henry Ford Museum. I bet with a little gentle nudging I could talk them into letting "US" take a spin around the village. The shed that the quad was built in has been recreated from the bricks of the original ford home that the shed was behind. Great place for a photo shoot. I could also take you for a spin in the car to see the original location of the house and some of the ford factories. Might even be able to tour the Model T plant.

If that isn't possible I'll just have to come over there for a spin. Haha!


----------



## vascon2196

Steve...taking our Quad for a ride around the Henry Ford Museum for me would be a dream come true. Having built 2 Ford plumbing engines, half-scale Quad engine, full-size quad, buying a Franklin Mint Quad, reading 7 books about Ford, and buying a Model T....I would say other that would top it all.

I was born in the wrong half of the century!

I would have loved to have met him.

As far as getting the Quad there, I'm sure the college would find some $$$ to make it happen...especially if the media were involved.

Great idea.


----------



## vascon2196

Motormagican said:


> This has been a great build to follow. I live in Texas, retired and if you have a small part needing a volunteer I would like to volunteer.No pay required. Trying to keep busy here at the house. Again, your students and you are doing a great job. Danny



Danny...thank you so much for your offer. In fact I have had several offers to make parts it is amazing. I'm sure a few small parts will show up and I'll do some digging to find some.

Wow...can't thank you guys enough for your support.


----------



## StrawCat

There are not many downsides to the proposal of taking the NEIT Quadracycle, and the participants (especially the females*), to the Henry Ford Museum for a Makers' Faire. 
The NEIT _should_ provide most or all of the funding: more can be obtained from groups that promote female involvement in the STEM fields, and from a crowdfunding drive tapping former Engineering students and students in general, etc.
 It fits under the guidelines for 1: community involvement, and 2: positive publicity for the school, etc. I.E., advertising. 

I'd recommend also finding some car/ American History fans amongst the Journalism/ Media students, and bring at least one of them along to write website and magazine articles, post stuff online, take photos, and all that kind of stuff. In fact, they could set up an NEIT Quadracycle Club website/ Facebook pages/ Twitter account, and take some time to make sure the journey is  made known to Ford and antique auto enthusiasts, commercial media, and so-on. 

A check with whoever looks after NEIT's various vehicles might reveal an appropriate trailer or truck to transport said Quadracycle to the Museum and back. 

*That should include the young female high school student who did a bit of the work, if possible, and, of course, parents and family as chaperones/ cheerleaders, Twitter tweeters, etc.  

Cheers,

Chris Green.


----------



## vascon2196

We had our last Quadricycle meeting of the semester...attached are a couple of pictures of our progress. A big thank you to the HMEM members that have offered their services and helping us reach our end goal!!!

Next I hope to finally finish the timing/eccentric strap!


----------



## vascon2196

Sad news to report...George DeAngelis past away. He was the creator of the Quadricycle drawings and probablt knew more about the Quadricycle than anyone else. There is a ton of information about him...he was a huge fan of Ford, a great machinist, and from what I've heard a great guy.


----------



## radial1951

Hi Chris and all Ford Quadricycle Forum members.

Here are a couple of small parts to help kick this wonderful project along. A pair of electrical contacts for the ignition system, made from 0.020" brass.

Just a token gesture of thanks, to you Chris, for initiating and guiding this project, and also for sharing the CAD drawings with those interested in the Quad.

And many thanks to the New England Institute of Technology for sponsoring the building of such an important icon of engineering history.

I applaud the students who have given up their time to lend a hand, and learn something new. The ones involved in this project will get more out of it than they probably realise at this time. Who knows there may be another Henry, or Henrietta, Ford amongst them!

Regards, RossG
radial1951
____________


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you Ross!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## vascon2196

Our club met again today and produced 2 Muffler end caps and an almost complete Eccentric Strap. We also keyed the rear drive hub to the axle.

More pictures to come.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Good deal on the progress. Would love to see some pics of where the build is to date.


----------



## vascon2196

Will do Steve...the next time I am at the college I will take some pictures.


----------



## vascon2196

I just added a 7 page PDF to the Downloads section on the forum. The document is my build process for machining the Eccentric Strap. I built the part in Solid Works using 7 configurations, and then created an assembly. The result was that I was able to simulate the machining process almost perfectly in advance...this helped me machine the part right the first time.

Most people may have done this differently but I have only been "hobby machining" since 2008.


----------



## vascon2196

Pictures from our last meeting.


----------



## Cogsy

I don't want to be 'that guy', but...long sleeves and jewellery. If they're students it's not good practice for them to learn.

Parts look good though. Thm:


----------



## vascon2196

It's okay to be "that guy"...you are right!

At least I remembered to have them wear safety glasses!


----------



## vascon2196

I ended up finishing the Eccentric Strap from my home shop. Somewhere in this post there are pictures of the Eccentric. I made the Eccentric out of aluminum because I was too stubborn to wait for a length of brass. Now that I have the strap made out of aluminum I would rather not have both pieces made out of aluminum. So, I'm going to make another Eccentric out of brass which in the long run will be better for everything.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> I ended up finishing the Eccentric Strap from my home shop. Somewhere in this post there are pictures of the Eccentric. I made the Eccentric out of aluminum because I was too stubborn to wait for a length of brass. Now that I have the strap made out of aluminum I would rather not have both pieces made out of aluminum. So, I'm going to make another Eccentric out of brass which in the long run will be better for everything.



Hi Chris, That's great progress lately. Good to see the students getting involved.

Just a suggestion; as a bearing metal, brass really is useless! (sorry ) I recall seeing brass crankpins on an engine once, didn't last long...

With your probably non-bearing-grade aluminium eccentric strap, the best material for the eccentric is probably cast iron. A zillion aluminium car pistons in cast iron bores can't be wrong. Cast iron not only has graphite in it, the granular structure retains oil. Any cast bearing bronze could be an alternative, not as good, especially against the aluminium.

Back to the beginning, material specs could be cast iron for the eccentric strap running on a cast iron or steel eccentric. With oil. All IMHO, of course.

Edit: Chris, the above suggestion assumes you haven't already made the new eccentric. If you have, by all means see how it goes, it will be lightly loaded compared to a crankpin.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
____________


----------



## vascon2196

radial1951 said:


> Edit: Chris, the above suggestion assumes you haven't already made the new eccentric. If you have, by all means see how it goes, it will be lightly loaded compared to a crankpin.
> 
> Regards, RossG
> radial1951
> ____________



Thank you for the information Ross...funny but I just stepped into the house after machining a new Eccentric about an hour ago out of brass! The only cast iron stock I have is 1.25" diameter and the outside diameter of the Eccentric needs to be around 1.5".

Correct, there will be little load on this assembly and when we do run the engine it will not be for very long. One nice thing is that if there ends up being an issue with these parts they can be removed quite easily without removing the entire engine and replaced.

For now, I have to wait until our next club meeting to try and mount the timing gear sub-assembly to the engine frame. Then we can finally mount the flywheel to see how everything spins.

Thanks again for the information Ross.


----------



## StephenB

This is an awesome project. I some how stumbled on what I'm guessing is your weebly site looking for some plans for something. Managed to find this place. I've been fascinated by the Quadricycle and the mercedes-benz daimler motor carriage since I was a kid. Well that and muscle cars. Thank you very much for sharing and I would love to get hold of the full set of plans when you are ready to release them.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Steven...the full set (original set) can be purchased from Dave Dunlavy...his contact information is somewhere on this thread. My plans are slightly modified based on our machines and tooling.


----------



## vascon2196

Taking a break from my half-scale Quadricycle engine I decided to work on the full-size Quad yesterday afternoon. Attached are pictures of the completed speed adjuster. We just need to make a couple of spacers to fit in between the two side plates.

I decided to plunge straight down along the top arc instead of flat slots like the original...it was just easier.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Taking a break from my half-scale Quadricycle engine I decided to work on the full-size Quad yesterday afternoon. Attached are pictures of the completed speed adjuster. We just need to make a couple of spacers to fit in between the two side plates.
> 
> I decided to plunge straight down along the top arc instead of flat slots like the original...it was just easier.



Chris, that's looking good. I like the mounting feet, very neat, clever idea. If that's aluminium, etch prime it first if you want paint to stay on, as it's right  between the driver's boots. Is there a paint/maintenance shop at the college to help with that sort of thing?

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Ross. We have a fume hood and grandmaster...that's it for painting. Would a rattle can of etch primer work? I would love to anodized it if I had the capability.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Thanks Ross. We have a fume hood and grandmaster...that's it for painting. Would a rattle can of etch primer work? I would love to anodized it if I had the capability.



Hi Chris

What's a "grandmaster'? Is that you, Chris?!! A rattle can will be fine, any primer for non-ferrous metal will help the paint to stick. Without it, paint will just chip off too easily. Rough the aluminium surface up with a Scotchbrite pad and degrease thoroughly. Don't handle before painting.

Regards, RossG.
radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

Ha! I was trying to write Sandblaster no Grandmaster!


----------



## aircraftmech

Anodizing is actually quite simple... All it requires is sulfuric acid, a battery charger or 12v power source, and distilled water. I will admit that being able to get the exact color I want has eluded me. &#128522; Also some lead plates to use as electrodes.


----------



## vascon2196

Okay...it has been a while since the Ford Quadricycle has been worked on but we finally got around to making a little progress. I left the college for 2 years to teach high school and was not happy...now I am back at the college and back to the Quadricycle with a new set of enthusiastic students!

Yesterday we fixed our mistake on the rear axle. The keyed wheel hub was keyed and pinned to the wrong end of the axle! We keyed the opposite side and fixed that which took some time but the students all learned a little something.

We also finished the small pulley that is mounted to the large flywheel. Ford originally made his flywheel one solid casting...we are making it in two pieces. Should give us 10mph if the belt is on the large flywheel and 20mph on the small aluminum pulley.

The students used the Proto-Trak for the first time and loved it. They also learned how to center an existing bore using a test indicator.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Glad to hear your back at it. Maybe when you get a chance to breath we can get a little update on what is completed and what you still have left to do. Just a rough overview. Im just curious.


----------



## vascon2196

Hi Steve...at the moment there are a lot of parts that are "finished" but need to be fitted with mating parts. Other than the engine being assembled, the front suspension is still missing a few brackets and links.

The clutch brackets need to be finished (they are only welded and now need finish machining).

The steering tiller needs to be machined and bent.

The gas tank and water tank needs to be fabricated.

The intake valves need to be made.

I think the exhaust valve manifolds are complete but valve seats and other fussy things still have to be worked out.

The main cylinders need to be honed and we need piston rings.

The large flywheel needs holes tapped for the counterweight.

Whew...I know I'm missing some items but that is all I can think of at the moment.

_______________


Now that the flywheel pulley is complete we can begin to assembly the crankshaft/flywheel assembly...then mount it to the engine frame.


----------



## vascon2196

We got the differential installed yesterday! Everything spins smoothly!


----------



## vascon2196

https://youtu.be/DPuzrBnJpwc

Differential


----------



## stevehuckss396

Sweet!!!   When are we going for a ride!  Old car days is coming up at the greenfield village. We can drive around the village and take pictures at the shed it was built in.  Or not.


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> Sweet!!!   When are we going for a ride!  Old car days is coming up at the greenfield village. We can drive around the village and take pictures at the shed it was built in.  Or not.



I would love to cruise around Greenfield Village...give us a couple of years though!


----------



## vascon2196

I took some parts home over the weekend so we could focus on assembly next week. The keyseats in the crankshaft were too shallow and needed to be cut deeper. The bore through the aluminum pulley was too small so I picked up the center and bored it to the correct size. I also had to make custom keys for the ends and the key for the main flywheel.

Now hopefully we can try to assembly the Flywheel sub-assembly without running into any more speed-bumps.


----------



## vascon2196

We drilled & tapped the flywheel for the counter-weight. Added counter-sinks in the counter-weight. Finished making the crankshaft keys and fixed the idler gear timing bolt (it was too long). Also turned the end of the steering tiller and drilled and tapped the end for the wood handle.

One of our club members will be taking the steering tiller out for bending.

Next week we plan on assembly of the flywheel.


----------



## vascon2196

One of my students took home the steering tiller to bend it...looks great. We have some extra material but that end gets welded anyway.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Looks perfect, nice job.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Steve...and everyone!

Lots of progress yesterday with the Quadricycle. We cut the profile of the steering bracket on the Proto-Trak....cut the steering tiller bracket profile...complete the spacers for the clutch handle bracket...fit the steering tiller handle together (has a small spring inside which allows the handle to gently swivel) and keyed the tiller coupling. Stock was also cut and placed with the remaining drawings. A night student took all the clutch brackets home for welding. Now back to my Model T restoration!


----------



## vascon2196

We assembled the Flywheel and Crankshaft assembly to the engine frame! It spins freely by hand and just keeps going. The timing gears mesh properly. The only interference we had was the timing gear stud hits the counterweight...we will fix that next week.

The steering tiller bracket is almost complete.

And we are dry-fitting the piston and connecting rod assemblies...so far so good.


----------



## vascon2196

We placed the connecting rods on a hot plate and the sleeve bearings in the freezer for a nice press fit (about .003 to .004). I used a Dremel to make small grooves on the outside diameter of the bearing to give the Loctite a place to go during installation. Not sure if this is going to work but it made sense at the time.

We had to mill the ends of the should screw to match the width of the cranks.

We also plunged an end mill through the small aluminum pulley to clear the crankshaft key.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Problem is probably just a poorly made counterweight. Keep at it! Love the updates. Thanks!


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> Problem is probably just a poorly made counterweight. Keep at it! Love the updates. Thanks!



Steve...the Counterweight is perfect! The timing gear stud is 1" longer than it was supposed to be. And this is the second timing gear stud we had to make. (maybe this is why its taking so long;D)

Even with these little problems the students are quickly realizing that even with 3D CAD and all the fancy equipment we can still goof things up.

My students often ask "how did Henry Ford do this?"...my response is usually..."he was Henry Ford".


----------



## vascon2196

We fixed a few mistakes yesterday (that took up most of our time). We completed the steering tiller bracket and my night student completed the welding for the speed control brackets.

We also added oil holes and grooves to the connecting rod bearings and rear axle bearings.


----------



## vascon2196

We mounted the engine to the frame! The crank keys are about 0.020in too high so we have to shave them down a bit but the pistons and cylinders were fitted also and fit great! My goal is to not have to remove the flywheel (not sure if we can make that happen but we will try).

Currently working on the front wheel spindles.


----------



## vascon2196

Additional pictures of the engine mounted and piston assemblies.


----------



## vascon2196

We got the cranks, connecting rods, and pistons assembled. Fixed all clearance issues using a Dremel. We had to grind quite a bit off the cranks which were hitting the frame. The connecting rods were hitting the edges of each cylinder also which was fixed. The front spindle axles are almost complete. Now we are trying to make a jig to help bend the U-bolts for the front leaf springs.


----------



## vascon2196

Here is a quick video of us hand turning the Flywheel to verify there are no interference's...so far so good.

https://youtu.be/_vLYbmR-J-4


----------



## Billgeyer

Where online can I get the plans for the Ford quadricycle?  A hyperlink if you can.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## Billgeyer

Where online can I get the plans for the Ford quadricycle?  A hyperlink if you can.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## StephenB

Billgeyer said:


> Where online can I get the plans for the Ford quadricycle?  A hyperlink if you can.
> Thank you in advance.



http://quadricycle.weebly.com/index.html


----------



## vascon2196

The Quadricycle is still going...I have been so busy I have not had time to work on the project. Currently we are trying to bend up our own U-Bolts. Also, some tooling had to be ordered and we are waiting for that. Progress pics to come.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Awesome, waiting for pix!


----------



## vascon2196

Progress pics of the Quadricycle.


----------



## vascon2196

The SAMI program (http://samiri.org/) helped bend up the 8 U-Bolts we needed for the Quadricycle. We were then finally able to assembly the front suspension. We also finished a few more pieces and are almost done with the exhaust heads. Lots of great progress this quarter with a couple new enthusiastic students.


----------



## vascon2196

A few more progress pics.


----------



## stevehuckss396

That's great! Everything looks good.


----------



## gbritnell

Outstanding work! 
gbritnell


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks guys...here are a few pics of the seat arm supports.


----------



## radial1951

The "driver's accomodation" is looking good Chris.

And the front suspension looks great too. Well done to all you guys.

Won't be long before she starts poppin'...!

Regards, Ross G
radial1951
____________


----------



## vascon2196

I just dropped off all 4 rims to get trued at a local bicycle shop and left the seat with a gentleman who specializes in upholstery for classic cars. The speed adjuster parts are almost complete...then we can finish assembling the steering linkages. Things are starting to move quickly this semester!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Nice!  Black leather?


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> Nice!  Black leather?



We chose the dark green like the old photos...everything else black except some of the machined parts.


----------



## vascon2196

More progress!


----------



## vascon2196

The seat is out for custom upholstery and the rims are getting balanced at a bike pro shop. Pictures to follow of our completed speed adjuster and front suspension.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I cant remember but has the engine been bench tested and run before it was installed?


----------



## vascon2196

Not yet...still waiting for the exhaust manifolds and intake valves to be machined. That is the fussy stuff...I'm waiting for my plate to clear off first. Not sure when that is going to happen...


----------



## vascon2196

After at least three years the Quadricycle hits the ground!

Still far away from running but it looks pretty good so far...students are very proud. I actually had one student stop by the shop yesterday to say goodbye because he is graduating this weekend...This particular student began the Mechanical Engineering program the same time the club started. He pointed out the two parts he machined 3 years ago! Very cool.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Milestone moment!

I guess we have to wail until the end of summer vacation to see more progress.


----------



## clazman

Interesting and will be a very fun project for all.

Have a  question on the dimensioning of the distributor link. My drafting  teacher would have a field day red marking the dimensions. There must be  half a dozen datum's. Not to mention dimensioning to the assumed  tangent of 2 arcs, wow! I say assumed for the intersection for one arc  is undefined in either size or location and the other arc has a radius  and no location. 

Surely Ford didn't dimension this.

On another note, I am dismayed that a solid modeler such as Solid Works is being used to reconstruct the quad.

I  would have at least used a 2D package if not drafting capabilities of  the era. Only then could the restoration be true to form. This would  also give the restorer, students, I better feel of design and execution of such.

I  grant that solid modeling with parametric capability takes a lot of the  headache out of design it also takes a lot of learning and fun out  designing as well.

Yes, I am an old codger (sp), but I have used  solid modeling and FEA myself. For those good designers these abilities  can be applauded for they allow the competent designer to spend more time  on true design.

This reminds me of the quote on the inside front  cover of the HP 45 owners manual of the mid 60's. Unfortunately, I  cannot remember it word for word. I paraphrased it per above.

Please do not take this as destructive criticism but rather constructive. I only am simply jealous of your endeavor.

The best to all.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks again to everyone. The Quadricycle went straight back onto the dolly within 10 minutes. We pushed it around and the front right wheel seized immediately. Upon inspection we noticed a few high spots on the axle that created grooves in the bronze bushings and dug in pretty deep. I removed the hub and polished both front axles as best I could. I am also in the process of adding grease fitting to each axle.

The seat is still out for upholstery (its been out for almost 2 months now), I'm not sure what is taking so long.

We have also been doing a lot of tedious things like replacing bolts with "correct" ones and tightening up lose joints and deburring...taking up slack where required. I'm still waiting on the engine for the summer where I can work on it alone (without being distracted every 5 minutes with student questions).

Like eating an elephant...we will do this one chunk at a time!


----------



## vascon2196

Pictures of the grease fittings we added to the front axles. I held the front axle in a 5C collet and collet block, added a spotface to seat the fitting, drilled and tapped for 1/4"-28, then cross drilled to allow grease to enter cavity of hub.

It all came out perfectly.

Also a picture of the clutch (speed adjuster) spring.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Cool addition.  Why not angular contact bearings? To keep with the way Henry did it?


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> Cool addition.  Why not angular contact bearings? To keep with the way Henry did it?



He used straight plain bronze bearings on the Quadricycle...the angular contact bearings did not come until the Model-T. Actually the first few years of the Model-T had straight roller bearings and then they upgraded to tapered roller bearings. At least that is what I have read...a Model-T buff will put me in my place if I'm wrong! ha,ha,ha

If the bronze bearings give us one more problem I will absolutely switch to tapered roller bearings. Thanks Steve!


----------



## vascon2196

I finally reamed and pinned the exhaust valve assembly.


----------



## vascon2196

Muffler attached and lightly tightened in place...


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Muffler attached and lightly tightened in place...



Hi Chris

More good work, won't be long before we hear the engine.

Next time it's on its wheels, any chance of a video clip of it moving around? Perhaps after you get the seat back from being upholstered. And don't forget your bowler hat!

Looking back, there has been a lot of progress this year. Well done.

Regards

Ross.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Ross...a few more things to fix before its on the ground but very close! I need to find spark plugs with a 3/8 NPT thread...and make the intake valves. Then timing is a big pain.

But hopefully this summer.


----------



## stevehuckss396

That's going to be a tough plug to find. Alot of the antique engines have 1/2 inch pipe thread and larger. I don't think it would be tough to make them.


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Thanks Ross...a few more things to fix before its on the ground but very close! I need to find spark plugs with a 3/8 NPT thread...and make the intake valves. Then timing is a big pain.
> 
> But hopefully this summer.



Chris, if you have already tapped the hole 3/8"NPT, a simple option might be to fit a 3/8"NPT pipe plug, drilled and tapped to suit one of the standard metric spark plug threads.

The common ones are 10, 12 and 14mm. Pick a common size plug for easy replacements down the track.

Just make sure it's a FORD Motorcraft Spark Plug!

Regards,

Ross


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Ross! Yes it is tapped for 3/8 NPT...if I cannot easily find one I will have to make an adapter.


----------



## vascon2196

I ended up tapping a 3/8" NPT brass pipe plug for an M12x1.25 spark plug. The cavity on the inside of the pipe plug was near to size for the tap drill for an M12...so the tap is a deep as the length of the plug...so lots of thread for a nice tight fit on the spark plug.

I like the brass pipe plug as an adapater because if the spark plug threads get damaged I can simply replace the pipe plug for a few dollars. If the threads in the welded cylinder get damaged..well....it will be very expensive and take several weeks to re-machine/fabricate.

I also completed both intake valves...I just need to find an extension spring and machine up a spring retainer.

Even when I have the summer off I still manage to find myself in the shop working on this Quadricycle!


----------



## vascon2196

Got the engine timed and wired. When installing the piston rings into the cylinder they jam up. I have to grind the gap a bit more on each ring. Maybe this weekend. Very close now.


----------



## mnay

We are excited to see this come together.  Thanks for taking the time to keep us up to date.
Fun project


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks guys!

If I don't post about this stuff right when it happens I'm going to forget what we machined in a week. I love sharing our progress but this also helps me go back and review what we've accomplished.

Some of the ignition pictures.

I'm using 2 Model T coils and a 12V battery. The on/off switch is on the front (battery box cover)...by the feet.

I could not figure out the spark distributor like the original Quadricycle. I went with a single stud threaded into the face of the flywheel. This stud hits a brass strip every revolution sending a spark to both plugs.


----------



## vascon2196

So I ground the piston rings down and installed them...but with 2 rings per piston we have zero compression. I can hear air leaking from everywhere. Sooooooooo next will be trying to find all the air leaks which is a pain but has to be done.

Spark is strong, timing seems right, and the flywheel spins smooth so now to find those air leaks.


----------



## vascon2196

Lot's of air pissing past the piston rings. I only honed the cylinders...I never bored them which may explain all of the air leaking past the rings. I also ground the gap in the rings by hand. The rings were installed "as-is" but would bind up when they could not compress enough.

I'm going to order new rings and minimize the ring gap. If that does not work then I will have to make custom pistons (cast iron this time).

Also, I need a good source for custom fuel & water tanks for the Quadricycle.

Thanks...more coming soon.


----------



## kylenlord

Hey Chris,
Are you building this at Neit? I went there for collision repair and business management.

Kyle


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> Lot's of air pissing past the piston rings. I only honed the cylinders...I never bored them which may explain all of the air leaking past the rings. I also ground the gap in the rings by hand. The rings were installed "as-is" but would bind up when they could not compress enough.
> 
> I'm going to order new rings and minimize the ring gap. If that does not work then I will have to make custom pistons (cast iron this time).
> 
> Also, I need a good source for custom fuel & water tanks for the Quadricycle.
> 
> Thanks...more coming soon.



Hi Chris

What did you set the ring gap to? I doubt a new set of rings and/or new pistons will solve the problem.

New rings are made to run in _round bores_ that are also _parallel_. OK, not precisely round or parallel, but within acceptable tolerances.

As a rough guide, you will get away with bores up to say 0.005" out of round which is a bit like starting with the bores of a well worn engine. Much more and you start to get blow-by because the new round rings don't seat in the bore properly.

You might get away with the bore up to 0.010" out of parallel, but the rings and pistons won't be happy. Better if it is also within 0.005". The above is considered _very rough_ engineering when it comes to internal combustion engine practice. Luckily this is a slow revving engine...

As for ring gap, about 0.004" per inch of bore diameter will be ok. The ends of the rings should be carefully filed square to give the correct gap when the ring is placed in the bore.

But first, you need to measure the bores. If you are using a telescopic gauge and micrometer, you need to take 4 measurements working around the bore 45deg at a time. Write everything down. This will give you a fair (approx) indication of the roundness of the bores. Start just inside the ends of the cylinders.

Then measure at a point further down the bore, say where the water jacket weld is on the outside. And also at the crankshaft end of the bore. It's hard to imagine the cylinders being near round if they weren't bored and honed _after_ the water jackets were welded on...

Regards, RossG

radial1951
_____________


----------



## vascon2196

kylenlord said:


> Hey Chris,
> Are you building this at Neit? I went there for collision repair and business management.
> 
> Kyle



Yes Kyle...building it at NEIT.

Room S212.


----------



## vascon2196

radial1951 said:


> Hi Chris
> 
> What did you set the ring gap to? I doubt a new set of rings and/or new pistons will solve the problem.
> 
> New rings are made to run in _round bores_ that are also _parallel_. OK, not precisely round or parallel, but within acceptable tolerances.
> 
> As a rough guide, you will get away with bores up to say 0.005" out of round which is a bit like starting with the bores of a well worn engine. Much more and you start to get blow-by because the new round rings don't seat in the bore properly.
> 
> You might get away with the bore up to 0.010" out of parallel, but the rings and pistons won't be happy. Better if it is also within 0.005". The above is considered _very rough_ engineering when it comes to internal combustion engine practice. Luckily this is a slow revving engine...
> 
> As for ring gap, about 0.004" per inch of bore diameter will be ok. The ends of the rings should be carefully filed square to give the correct gap when the ring is placed in the bore.
> 
> But first, you need to measure the bores. If you are using a telescopic gauge and micrometer, you need to take 4 measurements working around the bore 45deg at a time. Write everything down. This will give you a fair (approx) indication of the roundness of the bores. Start just inside the ends of the cylinders.
> 
> Then measure at a point further down the bore, say where the water jacket weld is on the outside. And also at the crankshaft end of the bore. It's hard to imagine the cylinders being near round if they weren't bored and honed _after_ the water jackets were welded on...
> 
> Regards, RossG
> 
> radial1951
> _____________



My half-scale Quadricycle cylinders were never bored and the engine runs great with lots of compression. I only honed them but I am also using an O-ring on each piston. Maybe this works for the smaller engine but not full size?

I could use 1-ring and 1-high temp O-ring and see if that helps.

Your right...we should have bored and honed after it was welded. I would have to take the entire engine apart right down to the weldment. Then I would have to send it out to be done...I don't think I could fit the weldment into the Bridgeport.

My old company had a giant horizontal mill. Not sure how much they would charge us though...

Thanks for the ring info Ross...very fussy stuff these IC engines.


----------



## vascon2196

Long story short...we honed the cylinders to match a new set of Pistons. I never really liked the aluminum pistons and the skinny rings. I wanted to make custom pistons with thicker rings all out of cast iron. I thought of an old Maytag engine I have and the rough size of the pistons...I double checked and the Maytag bore matches the Quadricycle bore of 2.5in.

So I bought 2 Maytag piston replicas from Ebay...they are the correct size and come with 3 cast iron rings. They fit perfectly into the cylinders. We need to work in the rings a bit before the exhaust heads get bolted on again.

I had to make custom wrist pins...added small flats on each end for set screws...I had to add the set screw holes to each piston, #10-32.

I also have to press out the old connecting rod bushing with a new one...to match the size of the new wrist pin.


----------



## vascon2196

OK...I rebuilt the piston, rings, and connecting rods using the new wrist pins and new connecting rod bushings. I installed the piston assemblies into each cylinder using a pipe clamp, flat head screwdriver, and lots of patience. I had the exhaust heads off to check for clearances and everything spins nicely.

Now the air is pissing past the exhaust valves!

Now...I purchased the valves (they are Briggs valves) and I purchased the intake valves (they are Honda valves). I cut the valves seats myself using 90-degree C'sinks...apparently the purchased valves are not angled to 90-degrees.

I'm pretty good at making valves now so I'm going to make 2 exhaust valves and 2 intake valves all with an included angle of 90-degrees. I am also going to use slightly longer springs.

All of those things should help achieve compression...I hope.

I sprayed a little starter fluid into each intake valve and turned the engine over to see if it would at least turn over. It popped a couple of times and sent the flywheel over about half a turn on its own power...very weak without compression but at least I know how to fix the problem.

Now I need time to work on it...that has been the hardest part yet...time.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hang on Chris!!!!

Try doing a compression test where you spin the engine over about 4 or 5 times and check with a gauge. Your compression will be low due to slow rotation but it could jump up upon faster rotation.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Steve...I was going to "run the rings in" by belting the flywheel to the lathe on low speed. Turning it over by hand is killing my back.

But I can hear and feel a ton of air coming out of the exhaust pipe during a compression stroke. All 4 valves are leaking air. I purchased the valves because that is what Dave Dunlavy had done for his Quad...but he must have know the seat dimensions.

I have never done a compression test...maybe I should try it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

how wide are the seats? if you have low spring pressure, the skinnier the better. im guessing you have a valve about 1-1.25 inch diameter. i would make a seat about .062 wide and see what happens.

Did you "lapp" the valves in. If so you might have to redo the seats. Dont use compound from the auto parts store. Use a finer polish and try to get a shiny finish.  

Can you get pictures of the valves and seats?


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Steve...I ended up making 2 exhaust valves...and re-touched the seats just slightly to about .100in wide seat. I made the valves with a 1/4-28 thread on the ends...I'm going to make a spring retainer that I can adjust spring tension with. The valves sit really good in the new seats...about 0.900in diameter. I used 1in stock, held the free end in a live center, and kept turning.

I also added a gland ring on the exhaust manifold pilot diameter. I know it will get real hot there so I will eventually switch over to a high temp o-ring.

Wednesday I'll make the spring retainers and try to run the engine again.


----------



## vascon2196

I hope this works.

https://www.facebook.com/100010615121056/videos/294242807606221/

The 2 new valves worked....we got a ton of compression...engine ran great on a few squirts of starter fluid. Very exciting...however running on fuel drip may be the next big hurdle. BUT...the engine runs!


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> I hope this works.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/100010615121056/videos/294242807606221/
> 
> The 2 new valves worked....we got a ton of compression...engine ran great on a few squirts of starter fluid. Very exciting...however running on fuel drip may be the next big hurdle. BUT...the engine runs!



Chris, The Facebook link doesn't work for me, looks like I would need to be a member or something... any chance you might put it on your YouTube channel?

It's great to hear it now has compression and runs. Did you fit viton o-rings to the pistons or just running the standard iron piston rings?

Regards, RossG
radial1951
____________


----------



## stevehuckss396

Same here!


----------



## vascon2196

Try this one...

https://youtu.be/VRgRPA4z2r8


----------



## vascon2196

So we have great compression in one cylinder but almost nothing in the other. Most of the air is leaking past the intake valve. So I decided to re-design the intake valves and seats to make them easier to seal...more to come.

We completely over-hauled the front suspension, fixed a bent connecting rod, and neatened up the ignition wires. We also added a full radius on the end of the speed adjuster. Also put larger O-rings on each exhaust manifold.

And...the Quadricycle is on the ground (for the second time), hopefully we don't have to put it back on the dolly again.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Sounds like progress!

Went to the old car festival at the henry ford museum today. Saw 2 replicas driving around the village.


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> Sounds like progress!
> 
> Went to the old car festival at the henry ford museum today. Saw 2 replicas driving around the village.



That must be awesome to see them driving around. The Ford museum is on my bucket list but it is so far away...one day.


----------



## stevehuckss396

If you come, wait for Old Car Fest and bring the Quad. The shed Ford built the Quad in is there. Make a great photo if you dress right.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks for sharing Steve...looks awesome.


----------



## Roy Napier

Hi Chris,

I too am looking to build one of these fascinating machines. Can you please advise how/when/where I can access your drawings please?

Many Thanks.
Roy


----------



## StephenB

Not the ones from here and not complete, but here is a set that includes most of the parts: 
http://quadricycle.weebly.com/index.html


----------



## stevehuckss396

StephenB said:


> Not the ones from here and not complete, but here is a set that includes most of the parts:
> http://quadricycle.weebly.com/index.html




Those are solid works drawings. Cant be opened by anything I have. Bummer


----------



## vascon2196

Ya you have to have SolidWorks to open those files....SolidWorks has a free Viewer on their website which I think will let you view the drawings and print them.


----------



## StephenB

http://www.edrawingsviewer.com/
Very nice free viewer that lets you view several different kinds of cad files, including solidworks.


----------



## vascon2196

Besides building a Ford Quadricycle replica we will also be revising our CAD drawings to reflect the changes we have made throughout the build. Once that is done we will most likely provide PDF versions of the complete set of plans. Again, the correct plans can be purchased from Dave Dunlavy.

http://quadricycle.info/

Dave has also acquired patterns and foundries willing to make the parts that Ford originally had cast.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I think the proper thing to do is to provide the changes to the plans only. Publishing the entire set would be unfair to the original author of the plans unless the plans were made available free by the original author. In that case ignore everything I just said.


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> I think the proper thing to do is to provide the changes to the plans only. Publishing the entire set would be unfair to the original author of the plans unless the plans were made available free by the original author. In that case ignore everything I just said.



I think you are right Steve...even though our plans are significantly different. What happens if someone builds a Quadricycle replica, and somebody else measures it and creates plans, and then builds their own? Maybe one guy bought the plans and built a Quad...then loses the plans. His buddy offers to measure it and draw up a new set of plans. Then build his own Quad. Weird how all that works.

Maybe I should just remove those drawings...they are not as pretty as the original plans but I thought the students did a good job with the 3d modeling.


----------



## vascon2196

Well I just deleted the site. It makes sense...our Quad is not a true replica but close enough. Too bad, our 3D model of the assembly looks pretty cool.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I hate to be a kill joy but if we dont respect and protect the copyrights of our own modeling brothers, who will?


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> I hate to be a kill joy but if we dont respect and protect the copyrights of our own modeling brothers, who will?



No kill joy...you are right. I am a draftsman and admire/love all types of old mechanical prints and continue to teach "old school" drafting techniques. The original plans are amazing...all drawn by hand...very cool.


----------



## vascon2196

https://youtu.be/F9EPf8SJc2Q

Here is a link to an amazing 1937 video explaining how a differential works. My students ask me all the time how the Quadricycle differential works.

Please watch this video...it is great!!!


----------



## johnmcc69

Hi Chris, a really great job on the quad by you & your students.

 Are the assembly drawings that were created for this anything that you can share? I would love to see them, maybe print them out & hang them in the shop for inspiration. 

 John


----------



## radial1951

vascon2196 said:


> No kill joy...you are right. I am a draftsman and admire/love all types of old mechanical prints and continue to teach "old school" drafting techniques. The original plans are amazing...all drawn by hand...very cool.



Chris, as you know, the "original" plans were drawn by the late George D'Angelis in the early 1960s by measuring up Henry Ford's original Quadricycle in the museum. He built and sold several replicas, even selling one, as I recall, to the museum. And of course he sold many sets of his plans, at a very reasonable price, which I think is great. But there is no intellectual property, in the modern sense, and if anything, surely Ford owns the "rights" to the design.

It's not as though you are giving away or selling copies of the D'Angelis plans. As you have said, they are still available through Dave Dunlavy and are worth every cent. George D'Angelis worked in the Ford design office, so he did nice drawings.

I think it will be a shame if the wider hobby community are unable to see the Quadricycle design through modern CAD and 3D Modelling. Perhaps just have General Arrangement drawings and the 3D Models available on this forum. Any serious Quad builder will buy the D'Angelis plans anyway. Just my thoughts...

Regards, Ross G.
_____________


----------



## stevehuckss396

radial1951 said:


> Chris, as you know, the "original" plans were drawn by the late George D'Angelis in the early 1960s by measuring up Henry Ford's original Quadricycle in the museum. He built and sold several replicas, even selling one, as I recall, to the museum. And of course he sold many sets of his plans, at a very reasonable price, which I think is great. But there is no intellectual property, in the modern sense, and if anything, surely Ford owns the "rights" to the design.




Here's the thing.

George goes to the museum, measures the quad, makes drawings for sale. Fred buy's the drawings and creates 3D models from the drawings and starts giving them away free. Fred is in essence giving away Georges work.

Now if Fred went down to the museum and measured the quad, created drawings, and then gave them away I would see no problem because he is giving away his own work.

You can obviously do what you want and Chris, I promise I won't post again on this topic as to not clutter up this awesome thread that I have enjoyed sense the first post. But we all may not know what's legal or not but we all know right from wrong. Chris did the "stand up" thing by taking them down. Tells me everything I needed to know about his character, not that I didn't already know.


----------



## RonGinger

> Now if Fred went down to the museum and measured the quad, created  drawings, and then gave them away I would see no problem because he is  giving away his own work.



I would note Fred has put a lot of work into making the CAD drawing- you should know that well Steve with the amount of work you have done on CAD. So distributing his CAD is not really a knock off of the original work.

It is a complicated question, and lots of room for interpretation.


----------



## vascon2196

No worries...all great questions and all great dialog between people who love this hobby. I have always loved drafting (my students are taking a CAD final exam as I type this). I was given the original Quad plans from a good friend who purchased the plans directly from George DeAngelis.

Part of this project becoming a club meant that it had to span across multiple courses here at the college. Using the original 2D plans the students were able to interpret the drawings to create 3D models and drawings. Many features were changed and continue to change based on our machinery and available tooling.

I started in this hobby by taking apart my friend's air engines and measuring each piece to make 3D models of them. I admired all of the air engines from Elmer Verburg...and basically copied all of his 2D drawings and created 3D models and working assemblies...then after doing that for a couple of years I took up machining model engines and never turned back. Now I just put all of my effort into gas engines.

So yes...let's move on and discuss the Quadricycle!

We have the engine running slightly better...we ran in the rings a bit more yesterday using the lathe...it seemed to help. We took one of the pistons out and noticed the rings were not wearing 100% all around (cylinder still egg shaped?)

We may changed the timer on the flywheel to use the original spark timing...the pin on the flywheel prevents us from using the small pulley to drive the car.

Again...I hope everyone is still enjoying this thread...it has come a long way and we are very close to completion. I hope to have the Quadricycle displayed at the Yankee Steam-Up this October in East Greenwich Rhode Island...maybe I'll see some of you there!


----------



## stevehuckss396

vascon2196 said:


> Again...I hope everyone is still enjoying this thread...




Yes we are!


----------



## vascon2196

So here are a few of our pictures from yesterday. We ran the rings in again but this time much longer and at a higher speed. It helped a lot and the engine seems to run a lot stronger as of today. I advanced the timing a bit more which also may have helped. We ran the engine on squirts of starter fluid...can't run it too long in the shop even with the vent hood. Student in the picture is George...he's helped out a lot...and helped me get the engine running.


----------



## ShopShoe

Yes,

I am enjoying this thread. (And your other Henry Ford based projects.) Congratulations on keeping the work going through the club and through many students and helpers through all this time.

I am curious about the medallion on the front of the the quadricycle. Can you post a picture of it? (Sorry if you did and I forgot.)

--ShopShoe


----------



## vascon2196

ShopShoe said:


> Yes,
> 
> I am enjoying this thread. (And your other Henry Ford based projects.) Congratulations on keeping the work going through the club and through many students and helpers through all this time.
> 
> I am curious about the medallion on the front of the the quadricycle. Can you post a picture of it? (Sorry if you did and I forgot.)
> 
> --ShopShoe



Thank you very much ShopShoe...it is the college seal...attached is a picture.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Looks like it's almost time to go for a ride.


----------



## radial1951

stevehuckss396 said:


> Looks like it's almost time to go for a ride.



It sure is getting close now.

Wow is it really 4 years since we started following this build?

What will we all do when it's finished?


----------



## vascon2196

Been fooling around with different carbs. I tried a few little things because of time and impatience but nothing kept the engine running. We switched the ignition timer to the opposite side of the flywheel so now the counterweight is the timer, hitting a brass strip every revolution.

Whew...now for the carb.

I have this Gilmour garden hose adapter (image attached somewhere) and a hand sketch of my idea. I can use this garden hose adapter as the mixing chamber with gas coming in from the top and air from each side...gas + air mixture gets sucked into each cylinder accordingly.

I'm interested to hearing your thoughts...I'll make my next move after that.


----------



## Bowtie41

bob shutt said:


> My Dad and I built this 1901 curved dash Olds replica (in the garage). It does not have the original engine but is powered by a 13 horse power lawn mower engine and transmission. The wheels are from a company named Worksmans. They make industrial bicycles. I will definately be following your build



I realize this is a 5yr old post,but I am most interested in your spring setup.Were they purchased or made?If made,are they hardened/tempered,and what was the material?I'm contemplating a build that uses 1/4 elliptical springs,but am lost on their manufacture.Anyone's input will help.Thank You!


----------



## Bowtie41

charlesfitton said:


> vascon2196 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> I got the plans from a man out west...Tom Ronnin I believe. I put all the original drawings into Solid Works and created detail drawings. The original drawings were missing a lot of detail. At some point when they are finsihed with all the "bugs" removed.
> 
> *I will post them...there are about 150 drawings all together.*
> 
> 
> I really hope you can follow up on the posting of the refined drawings.....and I thank you in advance
> 
> f
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were the drawings posted and I missed the link somewhere along the way????Thanks!
Click to expand...


----------



## dnalot

Hi

Any city will will have spring shops that can make leaf springs to any specification. Look under automotive repair.

Mark T


----------



## vascon2196

Boy it's been a while but we got the engine running this morning...for about 10 seconds before the shop filled with fumes...ha,ha...but it came alive!

We mounted the gas tank temporarily and ran the gas line to the original carb...I scrapped my garden hose flange idea. I will try and post a video tomorrow.


----------



## stevehuckss396

can't wait to see it.


----------



## vascon2196

https://youtu.be/_olKJY_GmWE


----------



## ShopShoe

And... off it goes. Congratulations.

I have been waiting for the day this would happen. All those involved with this need a great big cheer and a pat on the back, and a one-handed clap from the zen master. If I was there, I'd buy the pizza.

Thank you for keeping all of us up to date.

--ShopShoe


----------



## vascon2196

Thank you!

Fixing a gas leak at the moment around one of the fittings. The quadricycle was left overnight with a full tank of gas and it leaked all over the shop floor. The woman in our department ran around in a complete panic. I simply had our shop-tech Ryan clean it up with soap and water...uggg...it was no big deal but you know.....

Anyway, other than that we will continue to fine tune the engine, check for leaks, check for loose bolts, and overall just make sure it is safe!

Keep checking in...more pics and videos to come.


----------



## stevehuckss396

vascon2196 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Fixing a gas leak at the moment around one of the fittings. The quadricycle was left overnight with a full tank of gas and it leaked all over the shop floor. The woman in our department ran around in a complete panic. I simply had our shop-tech Ryan clean it up with soap and water...uggg...it was no big deal but you know.....
> 
> Anyway, other than that we will continue to fine tune the engine, check for leaks, check for loose bolts, and overall just make sure it is safe!
> 
> Keep checking in...more pics and videos to come.



Great that you got to this milestone of the project done. The fact that it runs and loois almost complete means you are about half way done. Rof}


----------



## vascon2196

https://youtu.be/CQY_YJcNN1I

Here is a video of our Mechanical Engineering Technology students rolling the Quadricycle from the second floor machine shop, down the hall, down the elevator, and out the shipping/receiving door.

Many things have happened the past few weeks. I was tightening a fitting on the gas tank and tore the damn thing off...it was brazed and I apparently torqued it too much...my fault. So we used the water tank instead and it worked great. We had a lot of trouble with the original carb design...and for safety reasons decided to try something else for the time being. The carb was machined perfectly...but we just could not get the mixture correct.

One students brought in his dirt bike carb, machined an adapter, installed the carb, and the engine ran great....non stop!!! And nobody took a video 

Anyway...things are slowly moving forward!


----------



## vascon2196

https://youtu.be/OC0dpxIE_CA

Our Ford Quadricycle engine running off gas for a minute and a half! It's still only firing off one cylinder...very frustrating but it still runs strong. I've got a compression leak in the intake valve and have replaced/rebuilt it twice and it still leaks past the valve.

Anyway...the students have worked really hard to get it running this good...enjoy!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Went to old car festival last weekend. They had the real quad on display. Thought of you guys. 75% of the cars there were 100 years old.


----------



## vascon2196

Pics and videos from the 2017 Yankee Steam-Up in East Greenwich Rhode Island!

https://youtu.be/hYRt0Oplvu4

https://youtu.be/-xKkwh1wrMo


----------



## stevehuckss396

That is awesome. You guys have alot to be proud of. Congrats!


----------



## ShopShoe

I'll bet everyone had a day to remember from that. Congratulations to all.

--ShopShoe


----------



## vascon2196

So the engine has been running great (off one cylinder only). I We took the piston out of the non-working cylinder today and discovered 2 scratches on the bore running lengthwise with the cylinder. This is where we are losing our compression. After further inspection we noticed the wrist pin was sticking out slightly on one end...the same side as where the cylinder bore scratches were! The left and right (0 and 180) edges of the wrist pin were dragging along the cylinder wall.

So, I bought new rings, re-honed with a flex-hone, ran in the engine with it belted to our lathe, and put it all back together. We are still losing compression but it may fix itself over time...I'm not sure.

I may have to take the entire engine apart and have that one "bad" cylinder bore professionally honed slightly larger. BUT, I may have to make a custom Piston to chase the difference.

Any tips and tricks to share with us will be greatly appreciated!


----------



## stevehuckss396

vascon2196 said:


> So the engine has been running great (off one cylinder only). I We took the piston out of the non-working cylinder today and discovered 2 scratches on the bore running lengthwise with the cylinder. This is where we are losing our compression. After further inspection we noticed the wrist pin was sticking out slightly on one end...the same side as where the cylinder bore scratches were! The left and right (0 and 180) edges of the wrist pin were dragging along the cylinder wall.
> 
> So, I bought new rings, re-honed with a flex-hone, ran in the engine with it belted to our lathe, and put it all back together. We are still losing compression but it may fix itself over time...I'm not sure.
> 
> I may have to take the entire engine apart and have that one "bad" cylinder bore professionally honed slightly larger. BUT, I may have to make a custom Piston to chase the difference.
> 
> Any tips and tricks to share with us will be greatly appreciated!




What's the bore size and cylinder length. I might be able to hone the cylinders if not to large or long.


----------



## vascon2196

Hi Steve...I'll double check in the AM. The pistons are from a Maytag Model-92 gas engine....length about 6 to 8 inches I'm guessing. Again, I'll double check...thank you!


----------



## johwen

Hi,
Just an Idea to find the compression leak Put the cylinder with the leak on top dead centre with both alves closed and prssurise the cylinder through the spark plughole and see where the leak is coming from. Some oil in the cylinder will show up the leak. Cheers and keep up the great work.
John Samphier


----------



## vascon2196

johwen said:


> Hi,
> Just an Idea to find the compression leak Put the cylinder with the leak on top dead centre with both alves closed and prssurise the cylinder through the spark plughole and see where the leak is coming from. Some oil in the cylinder will show up the leak. Cheers and keep up the great work.
> John Samphier



Thanks John...but all the air leaks past the 3 piston rings due to those two horizontal scratches. I thought the flex-hone would work but it didn't...air still leaks. I have to have it professionally honed and may have to make a bigger piston now...not sure. Thanks though!


----------



## Toolguy

A friend has had good success with scored small engine cylinders by filling the grooves with J B Weld, then sanding to match the surrounding metal. Might be worth a try before doing something more involved.


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> What's the bore size and cylinder length. I might be able to hone the cylinders if not to large or long.



Hi Steve...sorry for the late response. The bore size is 2-1/2" with a length around 8 to 8-1/2". We are testing the engine on gasoline next week...if the other cylinder fires we might be good to go....but I'll keep you in mind.

Thanks again...this 5 year project was supposed to be done 2 years ago, lol


----------



## stevehuckss396

vascon2196 said:


> this 5 year project was supposed to be done 2 years ago, lol



So you are right on schedule. Hahaha!!


----------



## vascon2196

So the students ran the engine over the Thanksgiving break and both cylinders were firing! The only problem was that one of the Crank arms started to rotate and gall the key, which threw off the timing, and back fired. When the engine back fired it sheared both keys. So now we have to make 2 new crank arms and add new keys and probably key seats also...we'll see.

At least both cylinders are firing very strong!


----------



## stevehuckss396

progress!!


----------



## vascon2196

One crank arm complete along with one drive key. We also installed the muffler. We added grease fitting to the drive axle. Still fooling around with the ignition timer...I don't like where it is. The engine will back fire if it's not turned over hard enough to get over the initial compression. But we are chugging along like a snail.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Glad to hear you are still plugging away. Looking forward to the video of you taking the first spin around the campus.


----------



## Charles Lamont

vascon2196 said:


> Still fooling around with the ignition timer...I don't like where it is. The engine will back fire if it's not turned over hard enough to get over the initial compression.



Is it not adjustable? (I can't remember what you may have said about it, and don't have time right now to look back.) I would have expected you to retard the ignition for starting and to adjust it once running.


----------



## vascon2196

We had to take the flywheel off the engine to repair the cranks. While the flywheel was off I decided to finally switch the inside frame angle irons which was a big pain because everything had to come off!

Anyway, it's done, angle irons switched, re-assembled. Notches were milled into the angle irons for crank clearance.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Holy smokes thats alot of work. Where is the project at? By that I mean whats left?


----------



## vascon2196

Next steps:

Press crank arms onto ends of crankshaft and re-install flywheel ass'y

Re-design contact on flywheel for better ignition timer

Hinge the seat

Install gas and water tanks with all the plumbing

Add cotter pins/lock nuts to all fasteners

Test the engine outside, adjust carb, etc

Then see if it moves a person!


----------



## JRD56

Hello, I realize I'm rather late in joining this conversation, but I was wondering how to go about getting plans/drawings for the Quadricycle.    I've been unable to figure out how to get the original George De Angelis plans or the plans developed for the New England Institute of Technology project.  Perhaps someone could clarify the latest information on obtaining plans.  Thanks
JRD56


----------



## olympic

Both the quadricycle and the Olds are terrific! 

And I have a garage....


----------



## vascon2196

George DeAngelis plans can be purchased through Dave Dunlavy...his contact information is somewhere on this thread. Also, we are having major difficulties timing the engine...if anyone has timed the full size Quadricycle engine and have some tips and tricks please let us know. We decided to try the original electrical timer and can't figure it out.


----------



## JRD56

Thanks, I have sent a message to Dave Dunlavy, but have not received a reply, I'll keep trying.  While I've not built my engine yet, I have studied the ignition timing some and I've built quite a few engines (automotive) over the years.  I don't know what you are using for an ignition system but typically you fire the spark plug just before the piston reaches top dead center.  On an automotive engine the harmonic balancer (which is on the crankshaft) is typically marked so you can use a timing light to check the timing.  The timing light is triggered by the No.1 spark plug wire and you can twist the distributor to achieve the desired timing.  I assume you are triggering the ignition from some sort of mechanism on the flywheel.  You could put a mark on the flywheel and a reference point mark on the frame so that they line up when the piston is at top dead center.  You could then use a timing light to check the timing and set it so it fires just before top dead center.  There are several economical battery powered timing lights on the market.  You need to make sure you are on the correct cylinder based on the rocker arm (distributor arm) position.  You may also want to ensure the exhaust valve timing is correct as it will have an impact on combustion which may appear as a timing issue.


----------



## terryp

JRD56 said:


> Thanks, I have sent a message to Dave Dunlavy, but have not received a reply, I'll keep trying.  While I've not built my engine yet, I have studied the ignition timing some and I've built quite a few engines (automotive) over the years.  I don't know what you are using for an ignition system but typically you fire the spark plug just before the piston reaches top dead center.  On an automotive engine the harmonic balancer (which is on the crankshaft) is typically marked so you can use a timing light to check the timing.  The timing light is triggered by the No.1 spark plug wire and you can twist the distributor to achieve the desired timing.  I assume you are triggering the ignition from some sort of mechanism on the flywheel.  You could put a mark on the flywheel and a reference point mark on the frame so that they line up when the piston is at top dead center.  You could then use a timing light to check the timing and set it so it fires just before top dead center.  There are several economical battery powered timing lights on the market.  You need to make sure you are on the correct cylinder based on the rocker arm (distributor arm) position.  You may also want to ensure the exhaust valve timing is correct as it will have an impact on combustion which may appear as a timing issue.


Oh, this is fascinating. So many projects, so little time! Anyone planning a trip to Greenfield Village in Dearborn definitely go the weekend after labor day. That is the Old Cars Festival.there will be 900 pre 1932 automobiles inside the village. A must see and still get to tour the museum and machine shops.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I go every year


----------



## terryp

Steve, If I lived that close I would definitely be in the village regularly. As an Illinois native we visited the village regularly, then found the Old Cars Festival and fell in love. We generally attend every couple of years, 2019 will be the next excursion as we now live in Texas. Tough commute! I am an life long  old car nut, having restored several and still own a few. Machining has always been a part of the hobby but really took off after retirement. Scale model steam engines seems to be my passion these days. Is your interest in old cars or machinist, or both? Terry


----------



## vascon2196

Quadricycle Update: No pics yet sorry...too busy rebuilding/revising our Quadricycle to take pics.

We have a new shop-tech for the department and he has shown nothing but enthusiasm for mechanical engineering and manufacturing. He truly loves machining (manual machining) and asks a million questions because he wants to learn it all. He has stepped up and helped me take the engine apart...fix miscellaneous issues with clearance/interference...repair electrical connections...redesign the ignition timer....rebuild and repair the entire front end. He seemed inspired by the project and wanted nothing more than to see it run.


We have drilled and pinned ALL front end linkages which made for a much more robust steering.
Covered the electrical wires with split plastic tubing (out theory is the electrical wire was held tight against the steel frame which would short out the circuit every so often)
Currently designing and building a new ignition timer (using our shop-techs idea which will be simple and very easy to adjust)
Mounted the carb to the front motor bracket onto a robust mounting plate
Currently bending copper tubing to connect carb to intake valves (bought a tube cutter, soft copper tubing, but need a tube bender!)
We found a compression leak in "cylinder-1" but should be able to make a gasket or permatext for a temporary solution
Learned all about "spring benders" for thin wall copper tubing...very cool.

With our shop tech's genuine enthusiasm and my eagerness to finish the project; we might finally get this Quadricycle replica going.


----------



## sdewolfe

vascon2196 said:


> Currently designing and building a new ignition timer (using our shop-techs idea which will be simple and very easy to adjust)



I was going through the build of the quadricycle and got to page 15, post 300, where you mentioned that you designed an ignition utilizing two Model T coils because you could not figure out the ignition timing of the original quad'.

The reason the timing cannot be deduced from photos is that there is no provision for timing visible. The system is a "make and break" circuit fixed at roughly 10º before TDC. Which means it would have been a wicked hard starter and run only at one "sweet" RPM, loosing power if piston speed exceeded the fixed timing.

Your guys have a handle on the ignition timing so you don't need this information. I just wanted to post it for future reference should anyone want to know how the 1896 Quadricycle spark worked.

Here is a copy and paste of a description of the quadricycle carburetion and ignition taken from a lengthy article about vibrator coils:

_Two of the thorniest problems in the development of the internal combustion engine were the issues of carburetion and ignition. The first involved getting the right mixture of highly combustible fuel and air into the cylinders and the second involved igniting it at just the right moment. Henry Ford's first car, the 1896 Quadricycle, took a brute-force direct approach to solving both of these problems. Carburetion was achieved by the expedient of a needle valve that allowed gasoline to drip into the intake manifold at a more or less controlled rate. Once in the manifold, the gas would be swept up and drawn into the cylinders by the air rushing through the manifold on the intake stroke. Once in the cylinders, the air-fuel mixture was compressed and made ready for ignition. Again Ford adopted a direct approach to solving this problem. The mixture was ignited by a technique known as “make and break.” This simple ignition system had been in use in stationary gas engines for a number of years and was later used on several early automobiles. Two electrodes or contacts were attached inside the cylinder head, one insulated and fixed, and the other one moveable and grounded. Electricity from a battery passed first through a simple electrical coil (that both created an electrical resistance and intensified the spark), then through the contacts to the ground and finally back to the battery to complete the circuit. When the two contacts were separated by some mechanical means (in Ford’s case, a bolt attached to the top of the piston would strike the moveable contact just before the piston reached the top of its stroke), a spark occurred that ignited the fuel-air mixture within the cylinder.

This rough but ready solution to the ignition problem had one serious drawback. The timing of the ignition was fixed by the bolt on the piston at about ten degrees before top dead center. The spark could not be retarded for starting the engine nor advanced to increase its speed.*

All in all, Henry Ford's primitive ignition system combined with its equally crude carburetor worked, but it severely restricted the performance and range of operation of the engine on his first car. A better system was needed. Fortunately for Henry Ford, he made the acquaintance of Edward S. Huff and was able to enlist him in Ford's automobile development work._

This is the document where I found the information:

http://www.mtfca.com/coils/Coils.htm

I copied the asterisk too but I did not find whatever it was meant to reference. The remainder of the document is footnoted with numbered references listed at the bottom of the page.

Thank you for posting the build process of your quadricycle. I thoroughly enjoy seeing the photos and reading the reasoning behind build decisions.


----------



## vascon2196

Thanks Sdewolfe for the article...so far the ignition and carb has been the most difficult. We abandoned the original carb years ago and bought an ATV carb that works perfectly. We are still using 2 model T coils and 2 spark plugs I bought at Home Depot. Another major pain has been compression. I built 2 intake valves...one worked great with no leaks and the other never worked at all. I had to build 3 more intake valves before it finally held compression! We just noticed a ton of air leaking past the exhaust manifold flange which I'm hoping can be fixed with a gasket. The surfaces between the exhaust manifold and flange should have been ground. We also welded the motor bracket to the ends of the manifold which resulted in irregular surfaces...difficult to make air tight!

Our gear ratio is slightly different than Fords original...we are using 40 teeth and 80 teeth spur gears. No matter which position we put those gears in we can never get the ignition timer to make contact at the same time the exhaust makes contact; too many variables. The flywheel and cranks need to be installed in a certain direction, the gears have to be meshed a certain way, the valve stems are basically our only fixed distance and need to be worked around, the exhaust link can be moved farther or closer, and the ignition push rod can be adjusted. Usually adjustment is helpful but for this its a pain.

I'm currently building the entire engine in SolidWorks and setting up equations to position the timing anywhere I want. Hopefully this will allow us to set the timing perfectly "on the computer" and then replicate it out in the shop. After all this I'm willing to bet we can build an entire new Quadricycle replica in about 3 months, lol.


----------



## JRD56

Chris, I have to apologize for my earlier post regarding the ignition.  I went back and re-read a lot of your posts and realized your are duplicating the original ignition system.  So obviously most of my comments would not apply.

Also, I did hear back from Dave Dunlavy and I now have the the George DeAngelis drawings.  So I'm starting to order parts for the engine as that will be my first effort.  

I feel you frustration on the ignition timing, intake valve and head leak.  However, guys like me will benefit greatly from you posting your dilemmas on this thread.  That is one of the real values of a build thread in my opinion.   You may want to consider making a head gasket from a sheet of copper or even soft aluminum.   

My plan is to use a conventional carb and ignition system initially to get everything working and then work on the drip carb and original ignition.

Best of luck going forward, I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

Jim


----------



## FranMello

vascon2196 said:


> So my Quadricycle Club is now an official club at New England Institute of Technology. Our students will be machining and building Henry Ford's first automobile, the Quadricycle.
> 
> Here is our first completed part...the Distributor Link.
> 
> Only one hundred or so parts to go!
> 
> Enjoy.


Will we see you tooling (pun intended) around town when it''s complete?


----------



## Martincz

Jen jsem navštívil tyto stránky a hned musel jít pracovat tak jestli mohu rád se pochlubím


----------



## Martincz

youtube


----------



## vascon2196

FranMello said:


> Will we see you tooling (pun intended) around town when it''s complete?


I hope so Fran! We had it running off gas yesterday (without the carb installed). We are very close.


----------



## vascon2196

Students got the engine running! Modified a 2018 carb to work with an 1896 designed engine. These students stepped up and did an amazing job. Going to refine the ignition, add cooling, mount gas tank, add brakes...all on deck.


----------



## LorenOtto

vascon2196 said:


> So my Quadricycle Club is now an official club at New England Institute of Technology. Our students will be machining and building Henry Ford's first automobile, the Quadricycle.
> 
> Here is our first completed part...the Distributor Link.
> 
> Only one hundred or so parts to go!
> 
> Enjoy.


Off to a good start.


----------



## vascon2196

Mechanical Engineering Technology students have been working endlessly on our Ford Quadricycle replica at New England Institute of Technology. We recently machined a new, thicker exhaust valve distributor link, adjusted and mounted the carb, mounted the gas and cooling tanks, currently plumbing the cooling tanks, loc-tite on the timing gear stud because it backed out and seized the engine, need to add oilers to the cylinders still, added a mechanical rocker arm electrical sensor for sparking, testing tomorrow, 11/7/2018.


----------



## Antonio

Hi Chris is a wonderful project. It is possible to have the plans of the project. Waiting for greetings from Italy.


----------



## keristal

Excellent project.
Will enjoy watching its progress.
Best of luck with it all.
Allen


----------



## ChuckP

I've been thru this entire thread.  Great project and I am planning on building this as one of my retirement projects.  I read somewhere in the thread that there were Solidworks drawings being produced. Does anyone have information on obtaining them?


----------



## vascon2196

ChuckP said:


> I've been thru this entire thread.  Great project and I am planning on building this as one of my retirement projects.  I read somewhere in the thread that there were Solidworks drawings being produced. Does anyone have information on obtaining them?



Hi Chuck,

Thank you for the kind words...I hope your build goes smoothly for you! Regarding SolidWorks, there were SW plans but I have since removed the link to that website. Partly because we have made so many little changes along the way which makes the original plans incorrect and incomplete. After everything I feel the original plans from Dave Dunlavy should be the go-to plans for this project. They are well drawn plans with a little history behind them. Good luck with your Quadricycle replica!


----------



## JRD56

Hi Chris, would you be willing to share the information about the carb you are using.  I'm starting on my build ( the engine first) and would like to procure a carb soon.  Thanks for all the updates.

Jim


----------



## vascon2196

JRD56 said:


> Hi Chris, would you be willing to share the information about the carb you are using.  I'm starting on my build ( the engine first) and would like to procure a carb soon.  Thanks for all the updates.
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim...funny but we actually scrapped the new carb and went back to Ford's original carb design. We could not get the new carb working without it using too much gas. Gas was actually shooting out of the cylinders! We fussed with it too much probably but my students got the original carb working great. Once I have time I will send you a part number for the carb...you may be able to use it...we just could not make it work (safely) with our Quadricycle. Smart move building the engine first...we should have done that.


----------



## JRD56

Thanks for the response Chris.  My idea was to get the engine running using a modern carb and then implement Henry's original design.   Sounds like the carb was just too big for the engine.  Sizing a carb can be tricky, too big and it will run too rich. Too small and it will run too lean which can cause it too run too hot.  I've actually got a small carb from an old 5HP Briggs and Stratton I'll probably try first.  No need to spend time sending me the part number.  Would be nice to see another video when you get time.  Thanks again.


----------



## vascon2196

JRD56 said:


> Thanks for the response Chris.  My idea was to get the engine running using a modern carb and then implement Henry's original design.   Sounds like the carb was just too big for the engine.  Sizing a carb can be tricky, too big and it will run too rich. Too small and it will run too lean which can cause it too run too hot.  I've actually got a small carb from an old 5HP Briggs and Stratton I'll probably try first.  No need to spend time sending me the part number.  Would be nice to see another video when you get time.  Thanks again.



Briggs carb might work great! Videos coming soon....I have to figure out how to get them off my phone!


----------



## vascon2196

Hello! We ran the engine and the crankshaft key came loose! We can't win. I had everything welded! Now nothing will move or break....oh boy. But now we definitely need to balance the flywheel. We are going to take 2 pieces of linear shafting and make them parallel. Sit the flywheel on them and let the it rotate to the heavy side...then play with adding and subtracting weight. I have never done it and have no idea how to...but that is the plan. Any help here would be greatly appreciated! I'm assuming it has to be balanced without the counterweight...then the counterweight has to weigh as much as the connecting rods, wrist pins, and pistons right? I'm very much looking forward to finishing this project.


----------



## vascon2196

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/media/categories/pictures.1/


----------



## vascon2196

Hello! Question....is there anything that can withstand higher temps than Viton? For an O-Ring?

We are using Viton o-rings as head gaskets but they melted. Is there anything better?

Please and thank you...this may be the only thing preventing us from finally completing our Quadricycle replica.

Thanks again!

Chris Vasconcelos


----------



## stevehuckss396

Try annealed copper


----------



## radial1951

Annealed copper "o-rings" are perfect. Many race engines use that method. But can be a pain to machine the copper rings, unless there is some other way to make them.
An easier alternative in this case would/might be annealed aluminium rings. You only need a few thous (inches) of crush. Just turn the id and od the same as the Viton O-rings and part them off at the right thickness
The above assumes there is only room for a ring type gasket. If you can use a piece of sheet, even easier...


----------



## propclock

I have used Viton extensively for ultra high vacuum applications.
These applications require baking at high temp.
If you "melted" it , it wasn't Viton IMO and if it turned "hard" it is a hazardous material. serious carcinogen.  from wikipedia
*Precautions[edit]*
At high temperatures or in a fire, fluoroelastomers decompose and may release hydrogen fluoride. Any residue must be handled using protective equipment.


----------



## vascon2196

We solved the gasket issue. Thank you again guys!


----------



## vascon2196




----------



## vascon2196

I have a video of us driving it but I have no idea how to share it with all of you or upload it here.


----------



## Cogsy

Posting a Youtube link is the easiest way to share a video.


----------



## stevehuckss396

How did you solve the head gasket issue?


----------



## vascon2196

Our first test drive after about 6 years of on/off work.


----------



## vascon2196

stevehuckss396 said:


> How did you solve the head gasket issue?



Hi Steve! Long story about why it happened but here goes. The cylinders were welded to the manifold plate (plate that exhaust heads mount to with fasteners). The cylinders were bored, honed, and faced before it was welded which means the end faces where the exhaust heads are seated were not flat. The area where it was welded allowed air to leak out when testing compression. I made new exhaust heads that had a Boss or male pilot that inserted into the cylinder bore about a half inch, and this pilot had a groove for an O-ring. The O-ring prevented any air from escaping after the exhaust heads were fastened in place and allowed us to run the engine. But the O-rings were now inside the combustion chamber and melted within minutes. We removed the O-rings from the inside of the combustion chamber and I added a thin automotive gasket between the exhaust manifold and the manifold plate. I bought a sheet of generic gasket material from Auto Zone for less than $10 and it holds the compression and heat. Should have just done that in the beginning.

Anyway...now our leather drive belt keeps slipping. The car moves at a snails pace so we have to adjust the tension.

Just a few days a go the timing gear KEY sheared right off the crankshaft. Yet another problem to deal with. We welded the cranks on which means we cannot remove the gear to repair the key! Lol, so we will be welding the timing gear onto the crankshaft. I'm both frustrated and relieved that this project is very near to completion. Just posted a video.

Chris


----------



## stevehuckss396

That is awesome!

Can you smear a little pine sap/tar on the belt to aid in friction. There has to be some kind of natural belt dressing that won't make a huge mess.

Maybe that gear can be cross drilled and reamed so a hardened taper pin can be installed? Or drill to 1/4 inch and put a high grade nut and bolt through it? I don't know how big the gear is or weather or not it has a hub.


----------



## a41capt

Batters resin should give you the necessary “grab” on the drive belt. I use a powdered resin on the leather inserts for my gun barrel vise in order to ensure no slippage when tightening my newly finished gun barrels into the action.

The quadricycle looks great, and it’s nice seeing it run!

John W
Camp Verde, AZ


----------



## BBrown

I was wondering if by chance you have posted the drawing or I just missed the link? Thanks


----------



## Brian Hutchings

If anyone is still looking for the plans by George De Angelis then they can be obtained from the Early Ford Register who's webmaster and editor is Dave Dunlavy.
The plans are free but it will cost you 15 USD to join the Register.





						The 1903-1909 Early Ford Register, Inc.
					

The 1903-1909 Early Ford Registry, Inc - a member driven educational organization dedicated to the research and preservation of Ford Automobiles built between 1903 and 1909.



					www.earlyfordregistry.com
				




Brian.
P.S. I want to build one at 1/4 scale.


----------



## vascon2196

Brian Hutchings said:


> If anyone is still looking for the plans by George De Angelis then they can be obtained from the Early Ford Register who's webmaster and editor is Dave Dunlavy.
> The plans are free but it will cost you 15 USD to join the Register.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1903-1909 Early Ford Register, Inc.
> 
> 
> The 1903-1909 Early Ford Registry, Inc - a member driven educational organization dedicated to the research and preservation of Ford Automobiles built between 1903 and 1909.
> 
> 
> 
> www.earlyfordregistry.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brian.
> P.S. I want to build one at 1/4 scale.



My half-scale version is on YouTube somewhere!


----------



## Brian Hutchings

The half scale version is here;

Brian


----------



## byawor

Chriske said:


> I to teach and learn our youngsters to work with lathe, millingmachine, etc...
> I think the conventional and CNC work should go hand in hand AFTER they have learned it all on conventional machines.
> 
> Chris


----------



## mnay

I registered a couple of days ago and paid but I have not heard from anyone


----------



## Brian Hutchings

Hello Mnay. They didn't reply to me straight away, had to wait nearly a week.  Hope they reply soon.
Brian (in the centre of England)


----------



## mnay

Thanks Brian
Mike (Salt Lake City, Utah  USA)


----------



## wthomas

Hi Mike:
     Don't expect to go there till after June 12, 2020 because the state is still 
in a state of shut down till then.  In fact you may not hear from them very
soon.
            Staying low in home in Michigan USA
                              Bill Thomas


----------



## mnay

Good to know, I will try to be Patient
Thanks, Mike


----------

