# Screwless vise dude



## Anko (Jul 14, 2010)

Hi everyone

I need your opinion, you see, i´m planing to get a screwless vise for my mini-mill, i seen a lot of people using this vise on the web, seem to work very fine and with great acuracy, also the 3" screwless vise size match perfect the mini-mill.

But to get one on my hand, i have to import the vise from LMS or Grizzly, so that will be expensive :'(, i have been saving money for a while to get a good milling vise, and is a important investment to me, so i don´t want to make a mistake about that....

I get my doubt about that vise.. on the clamping force, i work a lot with carbon steel (like 1020, and also with 4140.... and got all my end-mills edges rounds jaja), i´m sure that with aluminium or brass this vise will work very nice, but i´m not so sure that can handle with more hard materials.

So, i made a little search on the web and i found a post on the CNCzone.com forum, here they talk about this vise will not tighten down hard on the object, and it get alot of negative opinions, so now i´m not so sure about going with the screwless vise.... ???

(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=95218)

The other options are the 3" kurt style milling vise that offer LMS, but i feel that is oversized for the mini-mill, also is bigger and heavy, the shipping will ruin me off.. :-\

So i need your experience and opinion, i have done all my milling work (not much yet) with a clamping kit, and i have a very limitated work condition...I need a milling vise now

please illuminate me with your experience, I appreciate it very much :bow:

(sorry for my poor english, i will get better!)

Saludos desde Chile!! 8)


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## ksouers (Jul 14, 2010)

Hola Anko.

I have the 2" screwless from LMS and highly recommend it. I've had it about 6 years now and still functions well. Though made in China it is a very high quality tool. It's made of hardened tool steel and finely ground on all surfaces, all corners are perfectly square. The floor of the base is perfectly parallel with the bottom, no detectable taper at all.

I have used the vise to hold aluminum, brass and steel. I have had exactly one incident where it did not hold the part securely and that was my own fault, I didn't tighten down the jaw properly.

I've heard of some people having problems with the vise moving on their table because the finish is so hard and slick. The issue is resolved by placing a piece of paper under the vise before tightening it down. I personally have never had an issue with the vise moving. I use it on both an X2 mini-mill and a larger knee mill. I use it almost exclusively for my small work, I only use the larger vise when the job it too big or awkward for the screwless.


By the way, your English is just fine ;D
Looking forward to seeing the work you produce.


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## steamer (Jul 15, 2010)

I used a 3" toolmakers vise on my VanNorman #12 mill for some time before I got a "big" vice, more suited to this size mill. and as long as I took my time with big end mills, it was fine.

I would highly suggest putting a sheet of paper under the vice when you clamp it down, or it will slide around. The paper gives it enough grip to stay put. That REALLY works and I would not have been able to use it otherwise.

When I say paper, I mean writing paper,,,nothing fancy.

Make sure the vise you buy has features to allow you to bolt it down properly with out the clamps getting in the way of the moving jaw. That's annoying.

LMS has a side mounted clamping kit, but I think some toe straps would work here.  Don't be afraid to block it in on either side too.

You could do far worse than a 3" screwless vice, They take a little more time to set up properly, with the clamp screw in the correct hole for the part to be machined, but they are accurate.  My 3" toolmakers vice is more accurate than my 2"  "super precision"  vice on my F1 mill.......


Hope that helps!

Dave


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## putputman (Jul 15, 2010)

Anko, most of those vises are pretty good and precise. I think where some people have a problem is how they use the vise.
The tightening screw is always at an angle to the clamping. If you let the angle get too much towards vertical, you will be appling more down pressure than horizontal pressure. If you move the pivot point to another hole so that you will be more towards the horizontal with the screw, you will be able to tighten on the workpiece better. I hope I explained this so it make sense.
I have two of these vises and use them for all types of material and have never had anything come loose on me.


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## Anko (Jul 15, 2010)

Thank for the responses!

seem like the problem on this vise desing is more that slips over the mill table that the clamping force..

i´m planing to get this kind of screwless vise:







the reason?
the one that have slots in place of holes is a little more expensive... this one needs a couple of special clamps to hold down to the table, besides of that, i don´t think that the diference will be so critical..

anyway, i got a big lathe and a small mill, they are like "descompensated" in size, went i want to make some tooling for the lathe in the mini-mill, i have to clamp down some large pieces up to 10cm (for the size of the mini-mill), the jaw opening on this one is 3-15/16" so that is aproximate 10cm

using the maximun clamping size... will run ok with materials like steel? ???

what do you think??

saludos desde Chile!!!


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## cidrontmg (Jul 15, 2010)

I have one just like in the picture, with 50mm jaw width. It´s very good for what I do, very accurate, and I haven´t had problems with holding workpieces firmly. The only gripe is, it´s rather small sometimes, and I´m planning to get another slightly bigger (75-80mm). Most of my milling is brass and ali, also some steel and cast iron. And the paper is a good idea. I use a couple of Post-it tabs, they won´t move when adjusting the vise to square on the table.


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## Omnimill (Jul 15, 2010)

cidrontmg  said:
			
		

> I use a couple of Post-it tabs.



Thats a good idea! Thm:

Vic.


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## Andrew_D (Jul 16, 2010)

I have a 3" screwless, exactly like the picture above, from LMS. I made the clamps to hold it down, similar to LMS plans on the website.

I highly recommend a screwless vise. Works great, never had any trouble. As mentioned though, watch the angle of the hold-down bolt. 

Andrew


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## walnotr (Jul 16, 2010)

Since Dean hasn't chimed in, I will post a link to his tutorial on how to build your own screwless vise. Dean does amazing things in his small shop.

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/vise/vise.html

Steve C.


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## Twmaster (Jul 16, 2010)

I don't know if this outfit will ship outside the USA....

I have this exact same vise. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-PRECISION-SCREWLESS-VISE-NEW-VISES-/390095235475

It's terrific. Square as square gets, holds well too. The only gripe I have is when you use the short cross pin you have to be careful about getting the pin into the correct groves underneath.


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## Metal Mickey (Jul 16, 2010)

I have two of these vice's and use them all the time for milling. Its seems that I may have been lucky but to be honest I never had a problem in the past. I must admit that for some tasks I always add clamps above the item if feasible. I like mine. MM


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## d-m (Jul 18, 2010)

walnotr  said:
			
		

> Since Dean hasn't chimed in, I will post a link to his tutorial on how to build your own screwless vise. Dean does amazing things in his small shop.
> 
> http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/vise/vise.html
> 
> Steve C.


 I built this vise, but scaled it down to use on my hand taper it was a rather easy build and the vise works well. As soon as time allows I plan on building 2 more for my mill, larger of coarse and think I will try o make them out of cast as I seem to have and overwhelming supply.


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## prof65 (Jul 19, 2010)

Hi Anko,

I bought one of these vises three years ago, and I'm very satisfied with it.

Mine is 63 mm width, and I use it on an X2 mill. Perfectly square and it holds down parts very well.

A little collection of clamps I found on the web, maybe you get some ideas:


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## prof65 (Jul 19, 2010)

more...


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## Omnimill (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures of the clamps Prof, most useful. I've just got a 50mm version and plan to use it in a larger milling vice but at some point I'm sure it will be used on it's own. I wonder what the original designers of this type of vice had in mind for clamping it as so far I've not seen any commercially available clamps offered?!

Vic.


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## Anko (Jul 21, 2010)

thanks for your opinions!

now i´m very confidence on getting the vise, i´m just waiting for the shipping cost budget e-mail from Grizzly, to compare with LMS, and so see who would buy.

(ofcourse is not only the vise, i´m planing to buy some other items and put all the stuff in the same shipping box)



> I wonder what the original designers of this type of vice had in mind for clamping it



that is a good question!

thanks again for the pictures of the clamps, i got a few ideas of how to clamp the vise tight to the table 8), but first I will order the vise before do anything.

Saludos desde Chile!


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## prof65 (Jul 22, 2010)

LMS sells these clamps, but the price is too high IMHO:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2675&category=

Maybe Grizzly sells them too, I can't find them on their site.

Cheers

Roberto


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## Omnimill (Jul 22, 2010)

I've been studying my 50mm vice while I consider making some clamps for it and noticed the screw was binding a little. On closer inspection the hemispherical washer was jammed into the jaw. After removing it from the jaw it was clear that both the washer and socket needed to be cleaned up. I turned a spigot on the end of a short length of steel bar and with this fitted in the washer used it to lap it with some valve grinding paste. I also took the sharp corner off the washer and with a little grease added it's not binding at all now.

Vic.


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## Omnimill (Jul 23, 2010)

I've been thinking of some ideas for clamps and came up with this:

Opinions invited, before I turn on the Mill! :hDe:

Vic.


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## ksouers (Jul 23, 2010)

It looks good, Vic. It will work just fine.

But, an observation: The angle at the bottom is not necessary, just milling it straight across to a step at the back will be an easier set up. That's the way I did mine. The angle just makes it a more complicated set up, that's all.

If you want the practice at setting up the angle, go right ahead. I'm all for it. ;D


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## Omnimill (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks Kevin, I'll make a start on them when I get a moment ...

Vic.


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## Anko (Sep 11, 2010)

well, the screwless vise finally arrive!

im very happy with it and is very nicely made, so now is time to make the clams for the vise

seeing all of your pictures and googled a lot more, i have desing a new type of clamps for the screwless 8)(or that i believe, because i have not seen this one before)

























and filnally the clams are ready!! intruduccin the new screwless vise clamps jajja






















I clamp the vise with the clamping kit, but this is just for presentation, now i will made a low profile clamp specially for the vise

thank you guys for all the helps on this, now im very happy with the vise and can´t wait for use it in the mill for my comming projects


Saludos!


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## ksouers (Sep 12, 2010)

Anko,
That's a very nice solution. I like the way the pins are spread out along the sides.

I just have a single pin, similar to Vic's drawing, and the block is a little tall so there are some set-ups where the clamp gets in the way. I like the way you did it.

Congratulations!


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## ttrikalin (Sep 12, 2010)

Anko,
very nice,very smart!


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## steamer (Sep 12, 2010)

Hi Anko,

Looks Great! I Like the approach!

Because the vice is hard....I would still put a sheet of paper down underneath though.....It really does work.

Dave


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## Omnimill (Sep 13, 2010)

Nice idea Anko, I like those!

The clamp bolt (M6) was not very good on my 2 inch vice so I replaced it with a decent one but I've since made a new "toggle" or whatever you want to call it and am now using a M8 clamp bolt instead - seems much better!

Vic.


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## Florian (Sep 13, 2010)

Omnimill  said:
			
		

> The clamp bolt (M6) was not very good on my 2 inch vice so I replaced it with a decent one but I've since made a new "toggle" or whatever you want to call it and am now using a M8 clamp bolt instead -



Hi Vic

I also got me a 2 inch (in about; in Europe its a 50 mm ) version of a screwless vice. I still use the original M6 bolt though i first thought it might be too weak. And even if it comes from china, it is really working fine up to now. 

Before using it, i did following modification (Anko: That may be useful for you too... )
The ball cup in the clamping jaw had a very rough finish on my version. I then fixed the ball washer on a piece of 6mm steel rod (the hole is 6mm) so the rod does not come out on the ball end. (May use glue, a wooden mandrel made wet so it swells or Just press fit a brass or aluminum rod in the washer... )

After this, i've put some lapping compound into the ball cup and chucked the ball washer into my accu drill and looped in that washer by changing its direction permanently (to be shure the ball cup gets fitted to the washer on all the possible clamping positions)
Now the surface of the ball cup is really smooth as the ball washer is too. 
Also he washer can now adjust to the right angle easily and really smooth. 

Oh and one last hint: If you dont want all the chips to stick on the oiled/greased ball cup/ washer then use some powdered pencil (the softest one you can get) 
Thats really working good because the pencil is made from graphite and other stuff (the softer the pencil the more graphite it contains...)

Cheers
Florian


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## steamer (Sep 26, 2010)

Hi Walter,

You seem to have had troubles with this vice..."it was wobbly".....what part was wobbling?

Dave


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## Lew Hartswick (Sep 26, 2010)

walnotr  said:
			
		

> Since Dean hasn't chimed in, I will post a link to his tutorial on how to build your own screwless vise. Dean does amazing things in his small shop.
> 
> http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/vise/vise.html
> 
> Steve C.


There wasn't a link to e-mail Dean, and others may be interested also, so here is my contribution to the "clamping action" of this sort of device:

When the variable angle is only in one axis use a cylindrical washer / seat rather 
than a spherical. It is a LOT easier to make both the seat and the washer. I've 
even used that technique on woodworking devices to good results.
  ...lew...


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