# Arrrrrgggghhhh!!! Progess isn't always pretty



## Cedge (Feb 2, 2010)

Upgrading computers is always an adventurous exercise, usually seasoned with frustration. I've spent a good bit of time today downloading driver updates for older printers, which is pretty normal. I finally hammered them all into submission and everything is working as it should, so I took a break. 

While pondering my next line of attack, I decided to see if my favorite 3d software would load and run. It's an antique from around 1992-93 but it's still one of the cleanest ray tracers I've encountered. Considering it is a very early 16 bit program, I've been lucky that it would still run on each advancement of windows. 

That long run of luck came to an end tonight. The new 64 bit version of windows 7 won't even let it install. Here I sit with all the RAM I could ever ask for and I'm never going to enjoy what I'd hoped might be a perfect fit.

I've waged an internal battle over attacking a new 3d/CAD program, but it would appear that I'm going to have to climb one more long "J" curve. I'll still get to use my old friend, but it will soon have to enhabit my battered XP driven laptop. The old desk top is destined for full retirement when I remove the hard drives and wedge them into external shells.


Right now it sucks to be me.....LOL

Steve


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## potman (Feb 2, 2010)

Steve, Have you checked out running xp compatibility mode on windows 7 ? For details see:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx

I don't do windows so I know nothing about how well this works.

earl...


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## Twmaster (Feb 2, 2010)

Steve, have you looked into VMWare? You could install an instance of whatever old version of Winders you need and run that old Ray Trace package.

Check it out here (and It's free): http://www.vmware.com/products/esxi/


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## Jadecy (Feb 3, 2010)

You probably have plenty of disk space so you could always make it dual boot.


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## Cedge (Feb 3, 2010)

The VM idea looks interesting, but only works with win 7 pro and above. I've got the premium version and would need to spend $200.00 for an upgrade. Looks like I'll have to figure out another way to go. The dual boot might be an option, once I have everything sorted out.

Steve


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## BobWarfield (Feb 3, 2010)

We're due for 2 computer upgrades at my house, one for myself and one more my son. I'm planning to go Windows XP one more time even if I must buy it on eBay.

Too much pain in switching the OS.

Best,

BW


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## kvom (Feb 3, 2010)

I recently bought a new PC with Win7, and think it's a great improvement.

I also got a copy of Win7 Professional intending to load it on my old PC. However, I have a PDA that needs a driver not available on Win7, so I'm keeping XP for the time being. I got my Win7 copy from a friend who works for M$oft, so I can pass it on to you for $50.


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## doc1955 (Feb 3, 2010)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> We're due for 2 computer upgrades at my house, one for myself and one more my son. I'm planning to go Windows XP one more time even if I must buy it on eBay.
> 
> Too much pain in switching the OS.
> 
> ...


I just purchased a new lap top and had XP pro. put on it with no other software from Dell.


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## rake60 (Feb 3, 2010)

I have the antiquated photo program Adobe Photodeluxe 4.0
It would install on Windows 7, but crash every time I opened it.
I just went into it's properties and set it to run in a compatibility mode.
It runs just fine with that.







My older Vista machine has several programs on it that are running in 
an XP Compatibility Mode.

Rick


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## Cedge (Feb 3, 2010)

Rick...
Just gave that one a try. If I could get past the install failure it might have been an option. This software is so old it just can't quite clear the hurdle. Thanks for sharing this feature. It will probably save my bacon when i get further down the install list.

Kvom....
Is that the full or the upgrade version? I might just be interested. 

Steve


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## Hjaldor (Feb 4, 2010)

16 bit programs are usually quite simple. Their files are typically stored in a folder, system files in \Windows\System (NOT System32). Instead of registry the use ini-files. The ini-files are located in the program folder or in \Windows.

I have a old 16-bit program that Windows 7 refused to install. Here is what I did to install it manually.
- Copy the program folder (with sub-folders) from another computer where the program is working.
- Start the program (you might have to use "Run as administrator" and experiment with Compatibilty mode)
- As you get error messages about missing files, locate them on the working computer and copy them to the corresponding folder on Windows 7, usually \Windows\System.
If the program has an .ini-file in \Windows copy that as well.

When all files are in place, hopefully you can run the program. 

Try search the internet for "16 bit on windows 7 64". Here is an example:

http://social.answers.microsoft.com...s/thread/64b42c08-dd90-424f-8dfc-adf8fc474351

_____________
Leon


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## Cedge (Feb 4, 2010)

Leon....
You might have the solution. I've yet to transfer the external drives to the new system. The program is on running one of them. It's got files scattered in a number of places, but if I can track them down it might be possible to duplicate their locations enough to fool the thing into running. 

This will be the project for the weekend.... if the predicted ice storm will leave the power on.

Thanks
Steve


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## Cedge (Feb 4, 2010)

LEEEEEOOOONNNN!!!!!! You Da Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Copied the files from the old system and set up the file structure to match the old computer. Pasted them in, clicked the startup file and away it went. I'm now one verrrrrrry happy camper. 

The old system was totally choking on some of the larger 3D projects I'd created, but this new machine loaded them with ease and is making short work of rendering files that took as much as 30 hours to render. I'll have to steal all of Zee's M&Ms to reward you for your help. You want his Tutu too?

Steve


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## rake60 (Feb 4, 2010)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> LEEEEEOOOONNNN!!!!!! You Da Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I SECOND that! 
Thanks Leon! :bow:

Rick


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## Twmaster (Feb 4, 2010)

Sweet. Glad that worked out! Nice fix Leon!


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## Cedge (Feb 4, 2010)

Ohhhhh.... I'm gonna really like this. I am able to open multiple instances of the 3D program and it will render multiple files at the same time. Even the largest files will run simultaneously and the puter still has plenty of horsepower to do lots of other things. I could actually begin to like computers again....LOL

Steve


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## CrewCab (Feb 4, 2010)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> I could actually begin to like computers again....LOL



I know the feeling, I tend to think I'm reasonably computer literate, but sometimes I wonder  .......... over Christmas I rebuild my "Server" we run a tiny home network and over the years have tried to keep up with backups etc ....... the old server (circa 2002 <ish>) was struggling, 1.1Ghz, 512mb Ram ....... so back in the summer I put together a new one, very cheap really ...... about £300, 2.7ghz, 2Gb Ram, 2 x 1TB Hard Drives and over Christmas added Windows Home Server 2008 and fired it up ......... this now backs up every computer in the house ........

3 x laptop's 
my Office machine 
and the spare one upstairs 8)
and for now ......... the old server :

every night, doesn't complain, (yet) and seems stable so far .... :-[ ..... it's Widoze, what am I missing 


or have I found something that actually works 

CC


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## Twmaster (Feb 4, 2010)

You could have likely done a fresh software install and add a bigger disc or two to that old machine and had a nice fast machine again. My experience with Windows has been the older the system gets the more funk creeps in and slows it down. 

To contrast that... I have an 11 year old Sun AXi 333MHz UltraSparc powered file server running Open BSD. All I've ever done to it is add disc space. Even after I can afford a good Gig-E switch that machine will always be faster than my network.

My point is that we seem to always look to faster hardware to solve computer issues. That old computer can have a new life with some sort of more streamlined operating system, depending of course on it's job. My last web and email server was a 400MHz Mac G3 with MacOS 10 server. I only pulled it out of service when I changed hosting. Otherwise it would still be handling email and hosting my domains today.


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## CrewCab (Feb 4, 2010)

Oh, the Old one is getting recycled ;D ......... my eldest Son has claimed it, it will be installed in his loft as a file server, but, apparently I need to supply the HD's as well ...... Ces't la vie  ???

CC


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## Cedge (Feb 4, 2010)

It was time to make the move and buy new hardware. I used to upgrade regularly when I was doing professional web work and graphics, but I'd let it go for 10 years. Recent attempts to upgrade software revealed that legacy problems were increasing rather rapidly.

I think I'm going to like the new interface, once I've managed to chase down a few more of its secrets. The increased speed and additional power are certainly pleasant enough.

Steve


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## zeeprogrammer (Feb 4, 2010)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> I'll have to steal all of Zee's M&Ms to reward you for your help. You want his Tutu too?



Answer #1: You'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands.
Answer #2: You'd better hurry...Dean is negotiating for it.
Answer #3: No need to steal. I'm easily bribed. Very easily.


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## rake60 (Feb 4, 2010)

Every new release of a Windows Operating System is an improvement on their last release.
*(Windows ME is an exception! They didn't even tried to patch that one up enough to get it right.)*

I learned to like Vista after I figured out how to disable all of it's built in security systems.
You get the same security th_bs with Windows 7, but it is just as easy to disable.
The 64 bit OS has the potential to do a lot more in the field of 3D graphics and mechanical 
drawings than any other OS released to date by Microsoft.

Just like and other machine, you have to be smarter than the tools you are working with.
For me that is a REAL strain some days! Be it a computer Operating System or a drill bit... 

Rick


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## shred (Feb 4, 2010)

Windows Home Server rocks if you have multiple PCs and one or two oldies hanging around doing nothing useful-- turn one of 'em into a server that auto-backs-up everything in the house with very little fuss. Pop in an extra drive and you get a redundant share-drive-- even if one drive dies, all the data can be recovered from the other. Leave it looking like a junky old computer and when thieves break in, they won't even steal it (happened to a guy I work with; not only did he have copies of all his data, he used the backup to catch the thieves themselves)

I highly recommend Win 7 as well-- pretty much any PC that can run Vista can run it and run it better.


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## bearcar1 (Mar 12, 2010)

Z's tutu??!! Now hold on on there just a minute. That does not make for a pleasant mind's eye picture (EWWW!) However, after having digested the image I got to wondering about the matching boa and broach pin he has stashed away. Hmmmmm, COMMANDO RAID!!!!


BC1 
(RAMBO) Jim


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## Cedge (Mar 12, 2010)

Look out Zee!!! Bear's gone commando. I think he just mentioned your name while talking about disrobing. EWWwwww!!!

Steve


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## zeeprogrammer (Mar 12, 2010)

Re: Me and my tutu...

Hm...do you always make such judgments without inspecting the merchandise?
Well...I suppose you may as well.
Ain't nobody doing a close inspection. :big:

Your losses. ;D


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## vlmarshall (Mar 12, 2010)

Why did I click this? oh:


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## rake60 (Mar 12, 2010)

*Alright Zee, take this as a warning!*

Any pictures you may post here in the tutu will be immediately deleted.
Then I'll post them on Facebook - Twitter - MSN - ICQ - .....
Rof} 

Did I ever mention that I love this place?
There is always something here to bring a smile to the end of a not so
great day. 

Thanks for the smile of the day Zee! 

Rick


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## black85vette (Mar 12, 2010)

rake60  said:
			
		

> *Alright Zee, take this as a warning!*



You guys are too easily pushed over the edge. After all we are just talking about a tutu and not something more serious like a man thong!!!!  :hDe:


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## Cedge (Mar 12, 2010)

<crickets chirping>

Steve


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## rake60 (Mar 12, 2010)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> You guys are too easily pushed over the edge. After all we are just talking about a tutu and not something more serious like a man thong!!!!  :hDe:



OK, taking this new information into consideration, I withdrawal my previous threat.
 Rof} 

Sorry for the hijack Steve.
You know how I am.......

Rick


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## mklotz (Mar 12, 2010)

C'mon guys, men in tutus can be a beautiful thing...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCtuoAnPNgc[/ame]

but, beware, it can all go terribly wrong in an instant...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cEs9Kl9NYc[/ame]


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## black85vette (Mar 12, 2010)

And to think in another thread somebody was worried about some older machinists writing poetry!! Now what will they think of us.  *bang*


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## bearcar1 (Mar 12, 2010)

Now THAT is just plain WRONG!
Now I won't be able to go to sleep tonite and when I do I'll likely have these nightmares of men in tutus, somebody please HELP ME!!!!

BC1
Jim


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## zeeprogrammer (Mar 12, 2010)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Why did I click this?



Cause you were hoping for a peek.



			
				rake60  said:
			
		

> Any pictures you may post here in the tutu will be immediately deleted.



No worries Rick. They ain't free...and no one here can afford them. ;D



			
				black85vette  said:
			
		

> After all we are just talking about a tutu and not something more serious like a man thong!!!!



I take my tutu very seriously. The man thong thing is...uh...wait...

Marv. Good idea to show the runner-ups. They may be competitively distant, but maybe everyone will gain some appreciation.

Steve...my apologies for the hijack as well...but a shot at my 'manliness' cannot go unanswered.

Jim...one man's nightmares are another man's dream. If it helps any...think pink.

Sheesh. To quote Bugs..."He don't know me very well...do he?"

[EDIT: I made the mistake of showing my wife the fun we're having. I forgot she didn't know about the tutu. Sigh.]


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## Cedge (Mar 12, 2010)

Hard to hijack a thread that was already dead....LOL. I'm still worried about Bear though..... (grin)

Zee.... words fail me

Steve


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## Maryak (Mar 12, 2010)

> I made the mistake of showing my wife the fun we're having. I forgot she didn't know about the tutu.



Now, I suppose she want's one as well. ???

Ya just gotta luv em - no questions asked. 

Best Regards
Bob


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