# N.A.M.E.S expo



## PTsideshow (Apr 12, 2008)

Anybody from this board going to show their models or even just to it cruise the dealers, and exhibits next week end?  ;D


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## Philjoe5 (Apr 12, 2008)

I'll be there showing a few of my model engines. If anyone on this board is going, be sure to stop by and introduce yourself . I'll have a sign with the words "Home Model Engine Machinist" and philjoe on it.

Cheers,
Phil


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## deere_x475guy (Apr 12, 2008)

I am trying to arrange to go...money is a little straped right now but it might work out. I will look you up phil if I get there.


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## Loose nut (Apr 13, 2008)

Been there every year so far, not going to miss one now. Maybe everyone should write HMEM on their foreheads with magic marker so we'll know each other in the crowd.


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## PTsideshow (Apr 13, 2008)

I'll be there, Weds to start installing the regulators on the air lines,below the expo center and the piping and etc and on the tables. Will be there till its pretty much in the trailers on Sun night.

As Phoiljoe5 said just put a 3x5 sized card in one of the card holders next to your display. Maybe for next year we can come up with a name tag design
Does anybody need the safety info sheet or the fuel restrictions by the fire dept. I can post a copy here if needed.
 ;D


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## PTsideshow (Apr 14, 2008)

To anybody loading up and heading out to the NAMES EXPO hope you have a pleasant and safe trip!
 ;D


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## 13AL (Apr 14, 2008)

WOW, I just did a web search for N.A.M.E.S. expo, thats impressive!
didn't know there was such an event around here, thats got to be something to see!


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## nkalbrr (Apr 14, 2008)

Will be there shopping and looking with my father-in-law. Last year we drove out from Pittsburgh, this year the family booked some rooms at a local B&B. The displays are out of this world


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## PTsideshow (Apr 14, 2008)

If you do go, make sure you see Rich's T 1/16 Scale Steam Engine
of the U.S.S. Monitor No casting were used in the making of this engine. http://www.stationarysteam.com/monitor.html is another of his amazing pieces of work.
Here are some more of Rich's engines at his site.
http://www.stationarysteam.com/
 ;D


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## AllThumbs (Apr 14, 2008)

I hope to go. Not sure yet. I have been in the past. Very cool stuff there.


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## Jadecy (Apr 14, 2008)

Take some good pictures guys. I was planning on going...actually I had planned on it since Cabin Fever in York, PA. Life hit me right between the eyes last week (ie. family event that requires my attendance) and now I won't be there! 

Hope you all stay safe and have lots of fun!


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## Brass_Machine (Apr 14, 2008)

Everyone that is going... TAKE GOOD PICTURES!! 

That is for those of us that can't make it. Next year I will be there.

Eric


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## nkalbrr (Apr 20, 2008)

Well just returned to Western Pa from the show.It was excellent. Got the chance to shake Philjoes hand. As for pictures my wife killed the battery on the camera the day before at the Toledo Zoo, so no pictures. I had the opportunity to see some spectacular works of art. The Monitor's engine was outstanding,hard to believe it was made from stock..The largest scale engine was one that powered a side wheel paddle boat.


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## PTsideshow (Apr 21, 2008)

Have lots of pictures and some, video's will post all as I filp them right side down etc. And set up a photo page site just for the pic's along with the vid's. Have to take of some stuff be I will have a chance to start.
But it was a great show attendance down some what. Only problem is the same thing at all the shows. People leaving on the Saturday after noon(exhibitors) the dealers stayed till the end. Don't know what can be down to get people to stay. And of course a couple of the bright bulbs turned up at 2pm Sunday. And immediately started to complain about the empty spaces. One guy has down this 4 or 5 years in a row.

If anybody has any ideas on how to get people to stay till the end of the show. ;D

The way they do it in England wouldn't work here in the colonies. As the model steam/model building cultures are to different along with the population density. And the number of shows, very few compared to England.
 :big:


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## Loose nut (Apr 21, 2008)

Unfortunately on this side of the pond people have to travel long distances to display at these shows, some times driving thousands of miles (not kilometers) and have to be back at work on Monday so they have no choice but to leave Saturday night. There probably isn't a solution to that problem.


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## Bogstandard (Apr 21, 2008)

Maybe the way to go would be to lay on free insured courier pick up and return. The show organisers could then arrange for the display. 
They used to do this in the UK, don't know if they still do. Maybe still do for the big London Model Engineering Exhibition show.
They used to be displayed behind glass for security, because the exhibitor couldn't be there to protect his goods. Imagine the state of the glass over a weekend with all the drool on it.
By doing it that way, you would find that there would be more than you could ever see in a day, just like the London show.

John


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## John S (Apr 21, 2008)

John,
As far as I know they still do it for the main one which is now based at Ascot.
Don't think any of the others do it but as PT says our shows are totally different in layout the the US ones.

First is distance, in the US they have to go literally 1,000's of miles to get there, In the UK people ***** about going 200 miles.

In the US they have vendor stands and model stands. Vendors are trade or semi trade and models can be a combined stand or just a single modeler with his models on show. [ I hope I have this right ]

In the UK we have trade stands and club stands.
Trade stands are out and out companies selling anything from a centre drill to a full sized Bridgeport. Some come with that you call 18 wheelers in the US rated at 42 tonnes gross.

Club stands show the models of the member belonging that club, there are no single owner stands.
Club stands are free and they also get so many free tickets for members who are showing.

Trade stands pay, That's based on position and size, a large stand in a premium spot can cost £3,000, about $6,000 so it's all taken very seriously here.

The punters on the door also pay.

Shows are usually 3 days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, no one leaves until knock off on Sunday, That's written in stone.

According to PT, NAMES this year netted 1,600 paying punters thru the door on Saturday.

Harrogate which is in about 2-1/2 weeks if on par with last year will nett about 24,000 thru the doors over 3 days.

Last year we had 12,000 on the Friday alone.
I can't see how they could attract more people to the US shows given the distances and catchment area concerned I feel it all based on scale and is unfair to compare the two.

.


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## Bogstandard (Apr 21, 2008)

John SSS,

I wasn't criticising, just trying to reply to this. 



> Unfortunately on this side of the pond people have to travel long distances to display at these shows, some times driving thousands of miles (not kilometers) and have to be back at work on Monday so they have no choice but to leave Saturday night. There probably isn't a solution to that problem.



I had no idea how they displayed, I thought they were big shows, much larger than ours, by the way people talked about them. Maybe they get more enthusiastic about them than we do

I know all about trade fairs (commercial ones). I worked for an American company, and I used to spend over two months at the beginning of each year in Germany, first at Frankfurt Messe and then I used to go and set up the fair at Nurnberg Toy Fair. £3,000 would maybe get you piped water to your stand for a week and a lock up cupboard with a sink, if you were lucky. Our costs for two fairs usually worked out at over £70,000, but we used to take orders for up to £1m.

John


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## John S (Apr 21, 2008)

John, 
I didn't take it or see it as a criticism in fact I was agreeing with you in that there is a vast difference between the two types of show that unless you have visited the US you can't appreciate.

I have always followed the stories of these shows first in the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup before the lunatics took over and in other forums.
After being brought up on UK shows I was amazed to find out how sparsely attended they were. Given that our home grown model engineer will moan and whine that Harrogate is too far to travel from London [ 218 miles or 3 hours on train ] it's brilliant that they get the attendance that they do.

Also the clubs in the UK are different again because of distance.
Most large towns which are usually less than 30 miles apart have a club of sorts. Now transpose that the towns in the US that are 200 to 300 miles apart and often more and you can see why they have to reply on separate people to show their models.

.


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## Loose nut (Apr 21, 2008)

Don't forget that the big shows in Britain have be going for almost 100 years now and if you look at pictures in old ME magazines the shows back then for the first 20 or 30 year were not that big either. 

The first Names show fit into a very small auditorium and has been expanding at a good rate ever since, this year seems to be an exception ,there didn't seem to be as many displayer's, retailer or visitor's (poor economy and higher gas prices). With the distances that have to be traveled most people that would like to go to the shows here just can't make it. If a show was held in a city like New York and was well advertised the attendance would be much higher.

The show appears to only be advertised to the hobby itself and not much to the general public, which would cost a lot of money that probably isn't available. This would also keep attendance down compared to what it might be but the people that show up are very enthusiastic.

 Another point is, that as well as the hobby is liked here it is no were as big a hobby as it is in the UK and the people that are in it are very spread out but it seems to still be growing. Come back in another 20 years and see what it is like.


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## zeusrekning (Apr 21, 2008)

Loose nut  said:
			
		

> The show appears to only be advertised to the hobby itself and not much to the general public.



Advertising to the public would be a big help. I understand the expense thing, but I have never heard of NAMES, nor did I know there was such a model engine folowing. I just happen to come across this site researching slitting saws at work. Four months later, my wife misses me , my bank account is dwindling, my garage is full of scrap aluminum and brass, and my computer has as much info on model engines as it does porn  Well almost.

But really, I plan to start attending shows in the future, knowing that there are some out there, I am much more interested knowing that regular people have booths showing instead of retailers only selling. My major factor will be distance and gas prices. Hey maybe the can pay for gas. 
Tim


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## Philjoe5 (Apr 21, 2008)

I just got back from the NAMES show (500 mile drive). I had a few engines running this year and I had a great time ;D ;D ;D. It's on my "go to" show list for sure. I met many wonderful folks, had fun sharing experiences with many other engine/model machinists, saw truly unbelieveable model engines and got some useful tips for improving my machining skills. 

I was also sad  to see my whole bench empty by noon Sunday...BUT I talked to most of these folks and they all had to be at work early Monday morning, unlike myself. They came from Wisconsin, Massachusetts and other places at least a day drive away. I think that will always be the nature of these shows. One solution? Getting more modelers to exhibit would certainly help. There were a lot of empty spaces at the show Saturday, the busiest day. While high gas prices didn't help attendance, the New England Model Engineering Society addresses that nicely...they rent a bus for the members.

My first trip to NAMES was in 2007. I was a little intimidated going out to show my humble models this year compared to what I had seen last year. But the machinist crowd is an incredibly helpful and encouraging fraternity and Im glad I went as an exhibitor. Ive found a lot of attendees at these shows are newbie machinists and are looking for projects to start with. I have a half dozen names of folks that wanted to know where to get plans for my models because they're looking for a good beginner engine project. 

Well I got to see my current project in a few versions a walking beam engine. Naturally I took photos of many beam engines and Ive posted them here along with other model engines:

http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/philjoe5/NAMES 2008/


I also took several videos of engines at the show and you may view them at these links:
A Hot Air Pumping Engine
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP5xHQiSNro[/ame]

The A-1 Machining Walking beam engine  my project for 2008:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXWOWrYEQ7E[/ame]

Ill add a few more pix and vids in the next few days, but Im beat, and oh, did I mention I have dial-up? 

One more benefit of going to the show.I refuse to come home with money in my wallet, so I got some nice tools an indexable HSS profiling tool made by A. Warner, a set of angle blocks and a set of ball end mills.   

Cheers,
Phil


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## PTsideshow (Apr 22, 2008)

The final totals aren't in but in the neighbor hood of 2400 or so. Break even is around 2500. As to advertising, they go through a lot of Flyer's that the vendors at the show put in the orders they mail out etc. I have never got an answer way they don't do any other.

The big guns in the machine tool selling here, Production Tool, Travers, J&L etc don't come as they don't cover expenses. Talking to a wheel at Production tool they would have to pay somebody to be there, and stay, food etc. He said they are going to come to us whether we are there or not. A number of vendors didn't show up, whether due to age, or the lack of a family member to carry on.

There is a definite cultural separation between the US and England. Just looking in the Old Glory or ME mags. Man you guys have a scale traction engine rally, or an old equipment full size rally you are driving them on the roads, or you hook up a living van, water tank cart, and a steam gallopers and haul it down the road to the rally under your own power.
Here never happen, if it isn't on a 18 wheeler trailer it ain't going any place.

You guys from the looks in the magazines adverts have basically used car type dealers that sell only scale traction engines. Not here when most of the old timers pass, the family sells the item for the highest bidder. So any dealer, that has a lot of the items doesn't have full page ads in magazines.

The other thing is there are 3 real big shows, Cabin Fever, NAMES, and PRIME. There is a new one in the heart of the country planned for June. It is billed as the National Model Show were your engines can be run under steam. It will be outside, Seems some people that complain about the other shows can't grasp why they are run with air only. But that's another story, they will be starting out up against the rock and a hard place with the gas prices north side $4.00/gal this summer. 

I hope they are a success, as it can only help the hobby. The news papers and TV news aren't really interested in doing stories on nice interesting clean stuff. The TV station in Toledo, was there at the show 6:30 in the am on Sunday and did a short segment during the weather breaks on the hour. If there wasn't something else they had to report on. They shoot about an hour of video, way before the show opened.

The final problem or division is that the modelers of live steam don't mingle well with the full size traction and stationary engine crowd or the RR guys, or the steam car people or vice a versa. There isn't much of a cross over between the groups. From the number of people that made comments about the full size Corliss that was up and running at the show.

And the biggest segment of the full size steam is the traction/farm engines. They have shows that are numerous across the US and Canada but deal with the farm life/threshing and use. With some models at their shows. 
Then the RR people are equally divided between their interests. As are the IC people and the steam model people.
It just seems that on your side of the pond there is more of connection between groups like was stated in another post you have had the for 100 years and was the starting point for the NAMES show when a group went to see the London or your biggest show. They came back and started NAMES and the rest is history. 
Next year is Celebrating 20 years April 18-19 2008


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## ChooChooMike (Apr 22, 2008)

With all the population here in southern California, you'd think there'd be a model engineering show here ? But, there isn't. There's a number of other shows - car rallys and related and you sometimes see model engines there. 

I managed to go to NAMES in 2006 and really enjoyed seeing some amazing engines/talent there.

One of the bigger local shows for antique engines/farm equipment is at the Antique Gas and Steam Engine Museum in Vista, CA (north of San Diego/Carlsbad). They have their Harvest Festival in June and October where many old engines - gas, steam, diesel are fired up and running. There's a whole row of steam engines of all sorts and another whole row of old hit/miss engines, diesel generators, etc. Fascinating ! Many model engines are on display. Sherline has had a booth there the last couple of years. Great for them since their headquarters/manufacturing plant is nearby.

There was a model engine show in Visalia (sort of between Los Angeles/San Francisco/Bay area that ran for 2 or 3 years, but folded. I went in 2004. There was a decent amount of displays, but attendance wasn't that great. Not a good location in my mind, little town in the middle of the state. I'm guessing the show folks were thinking it was central to California - between San Francisco, Sacramento, southern Cal, Las Vegas, Oregon, Washington, etc. that it'd be convenient. Too bad it didn't work out. BAEM - Bay Area Engine Modelers were a big part of that show. Sherline had a large layout, Village Press too and many other folks.

BAEM started (?) a show in Vallejo, CA (near Napa) a year or 2 ago that I may attend this July.

The Southern California Home Show Machinists club - SCHSM meets 1st Saturdays of the month in Gardena, CA and usually has a good turnout (30-40+ folks). Lots of talent there !

Mike


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## PTsideshow (Apr 22, 2008)

Here you go. The Farm Collector Show Directory is the number one source for the most current and complete antique farm-equipment show information. Packed with maps of each show location, detailed listings, club advertisements and commercial resources, the directory is your personal guide to the world of antique farm equipment shows. A jumbo guide to all the antique farm equipment shows in 2008.
They combined it with the steam show directory a couple years ago. It covers the US and Canada. with a listing and maps and contact info for all the shows that send in the info.
http://www.steamtraction.com/shopping/detail.aspx?ItemNumber=3592
 :big:


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## Loose nut (Apr 22, 2008)

PTsideshow  said:
			
		

> The big guns in the machine tool selling here, Production Tool, Travers, J&L etc don't come as they don't cover expenses.



Travers tool, Smitty and a few others use to come but they were absent this year. 

The local model club in our area use to to put on a display at the annual steam and farm equipment show and was a big draw for them, the building we were in was always full of people interested in our models but when the show changed venue they wanted to stick us in an old barn with a dirt floor (not good to mix that with lube oil) and the club declined. The big boys didn't appreciate the amount of interest that we generated for the show in general.


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