# Three Cylinder Radial Steam Engine



## SBWHART (Dec 14, 2009)

Hi Chaps

This is going to be a bit of a long post but thought I'd bring you up todate with my latest short term project, so I'll apologise in advance.

Any way at Model engineering exhibitions I've alway marveled at the models of radial aircraft engines, now this isn't going to be a petrol engine, but it going to be based on two design of model radial steam engines, I'm going to try and take what I think are the best parts in terms of good design and ease of manufacture from these two designs, plus a bit of bling so that they represent an aircraft engine (cooling fins on the cylinders)

The two design I'm going to work with are:- 

The Cygnet Royal by Edgar T Westbury, I got my drawing free from Model Engineer but you can buy them from http://www.myhobbystore.com I understand that you can buy a set of castings for this design but I'm going to use bar stock.

Elmers Radial Engine drawings are available on John Tom http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/11_Radial.pdf

I've been planning this build for some time slowly putting my ideas together and doing a bit of research and I've started on a set of metric drawings as all my kit is metric, and to get round me the material and tools required.







2" dia ally * 250mm length came from ebay, the rest of the stuff came from my stash or as is the case of the chunk of sash weight cast iron from John, and the bearings were donated by Dave Bluchip

To make the boring bar for the crank case I copied out the sectioned drawing at a 1 - 1 scale and used this as a guide to grind the bar, and yes I know its the wrong way but I'm going to run the lathe in revers as its easy to see what's going on that way.






This is it ground up






Then with a chunk of ally in the lathe a start was made on the crank case, skim up the OD, centre drill then a series of drill, and then with a boring bar it was roughed out.






Finished off the bore and then brought everything to finished size, Home made boring bar worked fine, although I had to trim a bit more off it to keep it clear of the job.






Keeping the job in the chuck the whole lot was transfered to the indexer.






First job with a wobbler find the edges of the job:- zero the X on centre line and zero the Y on the front edge.











With the fly cutter I then made the round bar into an hexagon, this is where table stops help, with the stops set I had no worries about running into the chuck.

Forgot to take a pic of the fly cutting but you've seen that before.

Move the Y to where the cylinders will be mounted and zero the dro again from know on all features will be from the centre line of this hole.

Centre drill then roughing drill to get the meat out. Note use of support Jack






And then with the boring head rough out all the to within 0.5 mm






With all the cylinder holes rouged out, brought the first one to size, then as I wanted all to be the same, it'll make things easy down line, the boring bar was clamp up and the other two finished at the same setting.

One of the reasons I've reproduced the drawing in cad was that I wanted all the holes dimensioned from the centre line of the cylinders this way I can make best use of the DRO, so to drill the holes move the table to the x and Y location drill the hole, rotate the spin indexer drill the same hole in the other face, spin index drill the same hole in the third face reposition the table x and Y etc etc

Like this






And here we are with all the holes drilled in the horizontal position including the breather hole tapped 3/8*40 ME I'll tap the M3 holes on my tapping table.






With the job parted off I set it up in the chuck to face it off to length, when disaster struck, the @£$%%^&* thing flipped out of the chuck putting a few dings in it, luckily they are in places that won't be seen when its all assembled together, so set it up in the mill vice to fly cut it off to length.

Now for the port face:-

A little bit more setting up required for this.

First as it will be easy to put features in the wrong orientation, I marked the job up where things were to go checking and double checking I'd got it correct, it wasn't accurately marked just enough to keep me on the straight and narrow.






Next get the job on the RT centre line, to do this you rotate the RT, as I was using a three jaw self centre chuck I had to keep channing the position of the job in the chuck and tightening up on different jaws to find the best place I got it to 0.1mm run out well fit for function.






Next I had to get the hexagon in the correct orientation by clocking up a face level with the RT on zero.






Then get the job on the centre line of the quill (spindle) to do this you hold the DTI in the spindle and rotate the spindle.






Then use the DRO drill the holes in this case one set of 6 and one set of 3.






Ok last bit of work on the crank case:- cut the steam galleries, the drawing calls for the angle from edge to edge to be 60 deg, but for machining the critical feature is centre to centre of the cutter I'm using a 2mm slot drill so drew it up in cad and checked the cutter centre to centre angle 44 deg.

The mill was still set on the centre of the job, move the radius distance to where the ports will be, and rotated the RT 30 deg then off set 1mm to allow 1/2 cutter dia. lower the cutter 1 mm into work and rotate RT 44 deg. To make things simple I worked out the movement of the RT in advance and wrote out a crib sheet.

Like this






Ports cut






Last job tap all the holes:- I used my home made tapping stand, so that they were all tapped nice and square.











And there we are Crank case done.







The cylinders I'm going to make from ally with cast iron liners.

2" diameter length of ally being turned down.






I was hopping to get four cylinders out of this ally (one spare) but I forgot about the width of the parting tool so only got three, I'll have to be real carful

When making multiples its important to get certain key feature as near as posable all the same size, in this case its the width and the bore dia.

So by putting the job hard up against the back of the chuck and zeroing up the cross slide they were all faced off the same length.






Because of how I'm going to machine things down line I'm not particularly worried about getting the bore concentric with the OD. So sticking the blanks back in the chuck all the bores were centre drilled and drilled out with bigger and bigger drills.






They were all then rough out to within 1/2 mm of finish size with a boring bar.

Then finished off to size with the boring bar:- one after the other at the same setting, running the final cut through a couple of times to take the spring out of the bar.

For length they were all within 0.05mm and for dia 0.02 mm thats well fit for purpose.

Here they all are.






Having slept on it I decided to take some of the meat off the cylinders before I made the liners.

So first job turn up a mandrel thats a nice slide fit on the cylinders with a M12 thread.

Like this






This required some quite heavy cuts and I was a bit concerned the liner would come lose, so decided to get rid of quite a bit of the unwanted material before fitting them.






Then turn down the 35 mm dia sash weight down to 19.25 to give a 0.02 mm interferance fit in the cylinder and part off to length.






Then set back up in the lathe, again concentricity with OD not that important, centre drill and with increasing in diameter drill rough all three out, then they were set back up to finish with boring bar at the same cut so they all ended up the same size.

As I'm going to use the mandrel again to finish off the machining its easyer if they all have the same size bore. The actual size of the bore is not that important, I'll just make the piston to fit, its easy to work to an accurate OD than it is a ID, what's important with the bore is that its parallel and the finish is reasonable.






I just gave the liners a polish to give them a square start into the cylinder, then with a bit of high strength loctite they were squeezed together using the vice as a press.






And her we are all three liners assembled to the cylinders.






I give the loctite 24 hrs to cure before I do any more machining to the cylinders

Set the mandrel back up in the lathe and turned it down to a nice fit on the sleaves, this is why I wanted all the bores the same size, so that one mandrell can be used for all three.

Then same trick as before:- chuck taken off the lathe with the mandrell still in place and fixed on the Spin Indexer.






Her we have one in the indexer with my crib sheet and two assy in the crank.






Close up of three in the crank case,






Just taken delivery of this from the US, I saw these in use a few years ago at one of our subcontractors, he was using a big one 6" dia to hone the bores of some hydrolic cylinders, have any of you guys ever used them and have you any tips.






Keeping the mandrell still in the chuck set it up on the mill and centred the mill quill on the mandrell zeroed the DRO.






Then just as with the crank case indexed and drilled the fixing holes for the cylinder.






With most of the key features machined in the cylinder time for a bit of bling.

Again still keeping the mandrell in the chuck it was transfered over to the lathe, then with one of Johns finning tools some fins were added to the cylinder.






I was going to use some 4mm brass tube for the air ways but the gap between the two pipes would only have been 0.75 mm so I bottled out of that and decided to use 1/8" copper tubes, did a lose assembly to see how the bling would look.






That doesn't look too bad, and I was realy pleased how the cylinders holes lined up with the crank case, this was all due to the accuracy I got out of the DRO, without out it I would have resorted to opening out the holes a fiddling arround to get things to assemble correctly.

Cheers

Stew


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 14, 2009)

Great post Stew. I got some good tips out of it.


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## ksouers (Dec 15, 2009)

Stew,
That's some fine work. I really like radials, been fascinated by them since I was a young lad.
Keep up the good work, looking forward to more Thm:


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## joe d (Dec 15, 2009)

Stew:

What they said... this is really looking good!

Joe


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## d-m (Dec 15, 2009)

Stew
 On your hone no real tricks good speed 600- 800 keep it wet with your fav juice I like water soluble cutting oil and don't let it sit keep it moving in and out till you have the finish you want. I'm sure you will get it right quickly.But here is a cleaning trick, when you go to clean the bores use automatic transmission fluid and a white rag wipe till it comes out with no honing grit you will be able to see it on the white rag.
And buy the way nice job !!!!
Dave


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## Deanofid (Dec 16, 2009)

A great start to a build, Stew, and you got quite a bite at it in one go! The copper passage tubes look very snappy next to the silver metal. I like your way of doing things.

Please keep us posted!

Dean


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## Twmaster (Dec 16, 2009)

I can only add how much I too am impressed with your work so far. Very nice. I'm be watching.


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## SBWHART (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks for you kind comments chaps, its nice to get fead back.

Dave and thank you for the tips on using the hone I'll put them to good use.

Got a bit more work done on the cylinder heads:- cut some 1/4" ally plate leaving 1mm big all round, and made some toolmaker buttons, the plates were threaded M6 and the buttons attached.






Then gripping onto the button a register was turned up a nice fit in the cylinders and the heads skimed off to 4mm thick.











Then on parallels the button was clocked up to bring its centre line onto the quils centre line.






Then it was just a mater of using the DRO to find the position to drill the bolt holes, as I've shown before.

I want to fit a little brass boss on the head as a bit of bling, so first off ground up a radius form tool, I just took advantage of the rad that had worn on the edge of my off hand grinding wheel. Then using this form tool a nice rad was produced on a bit of brass this was then threaded M6 and parted off.






And screwed into the heads, this is how they look, a bit of tidying is still required but things are looking OK.






Cheers

Stew


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## Twmaster (Dec 16, 2009)

That's loverly!

And, you just shown me a good tip for finding the center of round stock. 

Thank you!


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## cfellows (Dec 16, 2009)

This engine is really coming together nicely. It's going to be a great looking engine and your workmanship is superb.

Chuck


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## CMS (Dec 16, 2009)

You've got some nice teachings going on here, very thought out. Looking forward to seeing the posts for the internals.


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## arnoldb (Dec 16, 2009)

Great going Stew :bow: - you sure are not wasting time on this one! Thanks for showing!

Regards, Arnold


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## Deanofid (Dec 16, 2009)

Yes, things are certainly looking "OK", Stew. A bit of an understatement.
You know how to dress an engine nicely, without making it look like a Mr T ornament.

Looking great. Thanks for sharing your build.

Dean


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## SBWHART (Dec 17, 2009)

Hi Chaps

Thanks again guys for your comments and interest

Had a right good do in the shed today.

First bit steam chest, turned out of a bit of 1 5/8" ally:- turn od then a big drill down the midle bore to size, transfer over still in chuck to the mill clock up OD to line up with quill and drill the holes on the PCD, the DRO realy does make this an easy job.











Part off and face to length:- job done






Next bit steam chest cover this is a bit more tricky as its not very thick:- turn up OD, turn step then with a trepan tool carve out the groove in the face.

Here we are trepanning






Drill and tap 1/4" * 32 ME






Over to the mill still in the chuck for drilling PCD

Back onto the lathe for partin off

Turn a threaded mandrel 1/4" * 32 ME.






And screw the cover on, then very gently small cuts and a sharp tool face it off to length and turn register step to fit in steam chest.






Thats another bit done.

Next up bearing housing:- Chunk of 2" ally skim up OD then turn up reduced diameter, the drawing calls for this to be tapered, but I'll need to chuck on the taper to do the other end:- forget it, I'll turn it parallel, if I decide I want it tapered I'll set it up on a lose mandrel when I've got the rest done.

First centre drill then bigger and bigger drills finishing up with a 3/4"






Then with my favourite boring bar bore 7/8" for bearing.






Part off






At that called it a day.

This is the steam chest and cover in place and the part finished bearing housing.






Have fun

Stew


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## SBWHART (Dec 18, 2009)

Hi Chaps

Domestic duties kept me out of the shed today, that and its bloody cold, well for us soft limies it is.

I want to change the design of the crank shaft layout so spent a bit of time in the nice warm house doing a bit of CAD on the crank shaft design, 

These are the defferent design options






I got 1) wrong (elmer) it as a fixed master con rod like 2)
.
This is the one I want to run with






Until I'd drawn it out I thought it would just be a simple off set of the con rod, but no on the origional cygnet design the master rod is quite thin 1/8 this doesn't matter because of the way the bearing is orientated, but the new design requires a thicker rod to give the bearing a bit of width so you have to give the slave rods a bit more crank. Anyway after bit of fidling and head scratching :scratch: came up with this design.






I'll have to machine the con rods up with an angled web, this goes against my origonal objective of keeping the maching simple, and I've not yet worked out how to machine them.

So what do you think mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Stew


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## CMS (Dec 18, 2009)

Don't see why it wouldn't work, but I don't think it would last very long. The high speeds those things turn and the offset connecting rod I think will bring about major stress problems along with balancing issues. Beleave the connecting rod, crank and piston should stay in plane.


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## cfellows (Dec 18, 2009)

Looks like your outside con rods would be perilously close to the bottom of the cylinder wall at midstroke.

Chuck


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## SBWHART (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks for you imput Chuck and CMS, you've spotted some of my own concerns plus a few new ones, I think I,ll go back to the drawing board.

The main reason I want to go away from the cygnet design is that I don't like the fact that the big and little ends are ally running on steel or phos bronze, I know some grades of ally have good bearing properties but I'm using scap yard material of unkown spec, so i want to add steel/phos bearings, I think I may be over complicating the design change.

Thanks again for taking the trouble to reply.

Stew


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## tel (Dec 19, 2009)

Interesting build Stew, you look to be going down pretty much the same road I took. Like you, I shelved the engine until I can come up with a decent solution to the con rod problem - I don't like ETW's layout at all.


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## SBWHART (Dec 20, 2009)

Great minds Tel :bow:

Thanks for youre input chaps some good comments their, getting me back on the road.

As some of you guys said the way I was going was too complicated. So I went back to the begining and decided to see how things would look with a 1/8" thick master con rod sharing the same 1/4" dia crank pin with the slave con rods to the sizes of the cygnet design.

I carfully drew up the con rods then assembled them onto a common piston to see how they would fit this showed that they interfeared with each other by about 1mm, decided to redraw taking the interference out, by reducing the thickness of the big end.

This is what I got.






Some of the sizes are a bit odd this is because I've converted from imperial to metric, when I make i'll round down to the nearest 0.1 mm with a tolereance of about 0.2. The straight webs will be quite easy to make I've worked out a what i think will be a easy method.

For the big end I've got some nice oillite bearing that i'll fit for the little ends I'll fit some phos bronze bearings.

First I'll make the crank shaft, fly wheel and pistons so that i can cut and fit to see how it all goes together.

Cheers

Stew


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## steamer (Dec 20, 2009)

Looking great Stew!

Nice bit of "noodling" a new solution there!

Dave


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## SBWHART (Dec 22, 2009)

Ok just to bring you up to date on last couple of days activity:-

Cold weather and family commitments have slow the build down a bit.

Finishing off the bearing housing:- I hadn't left enough flat surface for the screws to sit on so I needed to set the housing up on a lose mandrel to turn the dia down a bit so decided as I was already set up to taper the housing as the drawing.

Made a lose mandrel from a stub of steel faced off and tapped M8 with a cap screw with a big washer. You use a lose mandrel on jobs where getting things dead concentric is not important, the fit of the mandrel in the bore can be like a prick in a shirt sleeve to use the correct work shop term.

This is the mandrel







Put the housing on lightly nip up the cap screw and clock it up tighten the cap screw check that nothings moved






Machine away the bits you don't want.






I've bought some M3 stainless steel dome nuts that I think will look real well.

The next bit going to be a tail of Triumph over near Disaster.

Made a start on the crank shaft, drawing calls for a solid one piece crank shafts, all crank shafts I've made to date have been fabrication, but this being a one throw crank shaft I thought i'd make it in one as the drawing.

Ok first part using a 3" long bit of 32mm dia free cutting mild steel turn the main journal 3/8" dia.






Turn it round in the chuck and drill a 2.5 mm hole 2" deep for the oil way.

Centre drill then a jobber 2.75 mm then finish off with a 2.5 mm long series drill, drilling part way with an over size drill gives a bit of clearance for the swarf reducing the chances of it clogging and breaking, also keep clearing the drill back:- job done.






OK turning the offset for the crank.

Plan A :- 

Mark off set with a small centre pop then with a pointed bar in the centre pop clock the bar up turn dia.

Marking out

Mark centre line and set centre line vertical





Touch on top of bar






Bit of maths

Mark position of off set






Centre pop and her we have it in four jaw ready to be set up.






At this point tried getting it roughly set on the bench, and realized that with one jaw set over the next two jaws wouldn't close down, the diameter was too small.

Ok plan B. Make a bush with a 3/8 bore clamp the crank shaft with a grub screw positioned in a none important place (grub screw would mark the shaft) then I remembered that if you put a packing piece between the job and the chuck jaw you could get the off set, so decided thats what I would do.

Her we have the bush on the shaft with the packing piece.






And job part turned






OK spotted the deliberate mistake.

 :doh:

I'm using a three jaw, the geometry is all changed I used a 1/4" packing piece to get a 1/4" throw I should have used a bit of trig and worked out a thicker bit of packing or used a self centering four jaw.

A quick check and phew I still had enough meat left to get the job done.

Plan C:- well back to plan A really but using the sleeve to give more of a diameter to grip on.

Still had the off set marked with a centre pop on the bar end.

So her we are clocking it up






And part cut:- interesting shape with the near mis not quite cleaned away.






1/4 dia turned and drilling the oil way.






Turned crank 






And in the housing






Well that came out all right in the end I'm sure glad I did a quick check as to how the throw was coming out when I did.

Cheers

Stew


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## cfellows (Dec 22, 2009)

Amazing how much adrenaline this seemingly benign hobby can generate, huh? That first microsecond when you realize you've made a mistake and might have to start over is really gut-wrenching. Those people who jump of of bridges and high buildings with parachutes have got nothing on us!

Chuck


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## CMS (Dec 22, 2009)

Nice clean work. One day, me Grimlock, will evolve.


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## zeeprogrammer (Dec 22, 2009)

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Those people who jump of of bridges and high buildings with parachutes have got nothing on us!



 Rof}

Yeah...I do feel that way sometimes. Adrenaline is adrenaline.


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## Deanofid (Dec 22, 2009)

A good looking finished part, Stew.  Good follow-along story, too.
Off the engine engine subject a bit, but still a related question for you, Stew; Did you make the cross slide table for this lathe, or is it the stock unit? 

Dean


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## SBWHART (Dec 22, 2009)

Thanks for you support chaps.

Dean the cross slide is a stock part of the lathe as supplied, its a bit of an oddity its a Chester supper model B a 3 in 1 with a mill drill head that I've removed, I now use the machine only as a lathe following the purchase of a small milling machine (seig x3).

Cheers

Stew


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## SBWHART (Dec 23, 2009)

Stole a bit of shop time this morning and finish off the crank.

Blued the web up and set it up in the spin indexer, then by using my height gauge touching on the web then with a bit of calculation set the crank up so it was on centre line.






Then using the indexer and the height gauge marked out the web.






First bit of machining indexer rotated to bring the crank vertical and drill the oil way.






Then with a nice big milling cutter hack out the web shape.






Then mill the flats to drive the valve crank. By rotating the indexer 180 the flats came out nice and symetrical on the crank.






A quick debur and thats it done just need to drill into the oil ways and plug them up where required.






Cheers

Stew


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## SBWHART (Dec 24, 2009)

Completed the fly wheel, the drawing calls for a cast iron flywheel but I'd got some suitable brass and I also like making composite brass ally fly wheels.

So first job make the hub I'd got a bit of ally the correct diameter but it was a bit on the thin side to chuck and part off, so I put a hole down the middle of it and held it on a loose mandrel to turn up the OD.






Then stuck it into the middle of this chunk of brass, I found quite a few bits like this down the scrap yard.






The fly wheel is held on the crank using a split tapered collet. so to make the collet, swing the compound over to 5 deg (10deg inclusive) and turn the taper, then put a 3/8" dia drill down the middle, and part off.






Then don't move the compound, keep it set.

Chuck up the fly wheel, flip the boring bar upside down, and working at the back, bore the taper in the hub, because nothings bin moved the tapers will match perfectly.






Skim up the OD of the fly wheel part off and face the other end.






Split the tapered collet and her are all the bits for the fly wheel completed.






This is how it looks











Thats all the outside bits of the engine done just the innerds to do now.


I guess thats all until after Christmas

So I'd like to wish you all and your families a very merry Christmas.

Have fun

Stew


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## cfellows (Dec 24, 2009)

Nice work, Stew. Never thought of using a nut and threaded crank for a split collet. How do you get the flywheel off the shaft?

Chuck


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## SBWHART (Dec 24, 2009)

High Chuck

The tapered split collets trapped between the taper in the flywheel and the nut tightening the nut spread the collet gripping the fly wheel, slackening the nut off allows the collet to spring back and you can remove the fly wheel, its a great way of getting a wobble free flywheel.

Hope this helps

Stew


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## SBWHART (Jan 4, 2010)

Happy new year Chaps

I bet you thought I'd given up on this. Spent new in year St Ives a Cornish fishing village/town, made a complete fool of myself by joining in the fancy dress party that the town holds, got a little bit tipsy dressed as a red indian (must have been the fire water).

Any way on with the build:- con rods.

First job draw the rods out in cad and dimension the key features from the centre line of the big end bearing, then cut some plate to size, for the rods important to get all the bits the same size as it will help help in doing all three with the same set up.






Then set up in the mill bringing the vice stop into play then drill big end zero the DRO in X and Y and then drill other holes, repeat, repeat.

Her we have them all drilled.






Put a couple of same size rods through the web holes sit them on to a couple of parallels, tighten up the vice remove rods and parallels.
and chew out the meat.






Fit the big ends with 1/4" phosphor bronze bushes, the little ends are also drilled 1/4" (that I will bush later) and make a 1/4" mandrel, one mandrel will do both ends.

Then fix on mandrel and thin the webs.






Flip over and locate on the other end and thin the other side.







Then with the mandrel held in a collet on the rotary table round the ends off.











There we are done they just need a tickle with a file to tidy up.






The centre con rod is at the back in this pic with the two off set rods in the fore ground.








Have fun

Stew


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## arnoldb (Jan 4, 2010)

Nice job Stew 

What size was that cutter you used to round over the edges ? - 1/8" / 3mm ???

Kind regards, Arnold


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## SBWHART (Jan 4, 2010)

Hi Arnold.

Thanks for taking the time to post some feed back.

I drilled the corners with a 4 mm drill then to round the ends I used a 3 mm slot drill, so that it would have some clearance into the corners.

Cheers

Stew


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## Deanofid (Jan 4, 2010)

They look good, Stew. Especially all stacked up nicely on the crank pin.

I'm enjoying your build.

Dean


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## SBWHART (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks for the positive feedback guys :-

Made a start on the pistons over the last couple of days. The first thing I did was to hone the cylinders so that I would have a final size to work with, I used a flex hone with plenty of oil, I didn't go over board with the honing just a quick lick up and down for about 10 seconds, but it was enough to produce a nice smooth bore.






Then used this new toy to give the cylinders a good clean, its an ultrasonic cleaner on offer for £20:- Great for cleaning glasses and false teeth, wanted to try it out on Mother in-laws teeth, but the miserable old bugger wouldn't let me.






Then I carefully measure the bores they were all within 0.02 mm kept a note with each one of their size.






The turned down a chunk of window cast iron sash weight and drilled and bored the ID.






Then I wanted to try out my home made tool post grinder to get a nice finish on the OD of the cylinder, it took me a good bit of time and a lot of 13 amp fuzes (don't ask ) to wire up the new toggle switch I'd bought for it.

But it worked a treat got a nice finish on the cast iron and a nice fit.






This is two ground up and just sitting nicely in the bore, the third is still on the bar waiting to be parted off:- thats a job for another day






Have fun

Stew


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## Deanofid (Jan 7, 2010)

Good on the pistons, Stew, and a good idea for keeping the measurements straight, too.
We have those Flexi-hones in the States. Will have to try one next time I need to do a honing job. I've use a brake cylinder hone in the past, which worked pretty well, too.

Thanks for the pics.

Dean


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## arnoldb (Jan 8, 2010)

Good progress Stew!

Keep it coming.

Regards, Arnold


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## SBWHART (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi Chaps

This post is by way of a question for Mr Moderator and a bit experiment for feed back.

During the cold spell we've been having in the UK, instead of freezing my nuts off in my shed maching I've been in the warm drawing up this engine. Will it be OK to add the drawing to the download section if so how do I do it, I don't think I've broken any copy right but pleas shout at me if you think I have.

Her's a sample sht (attached) from the drawing pack, comments will be welcome, I'll wait until I've got the engine running so that I can add any required changes before putting them in down load.

Cheers

Stew



View attachment Sht 2 second try.pdf


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## shred (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm not a moderator, but I'm all for plans!


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## SBWHART (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks for fead back shred, no ones shouted at me so I think i'll just goahead and post the drawing when I'm done.

Any way not so cold today so got the pistons finished.

Set up for drilling gudgiun hole. find edges and index to corect position, all three were drilled from the same setting







The inside of the piston requires milling out to give clearance for the con rod little end.

This is the set up, a length of 4mm rod was inserted in gudgion pin hole then squares this up to the vice, 






At my first attemp I used a 3mm slot drill but broke it so went up the a 4.5 end mill that worked ok

And her they are done






And on the crank






I've just got three bits to make before I start assy and test, so I've attached the drawing that shows these last three bits

Have fun

Stew 

View attachment Sht 4-Model.pdf


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## SBWHART (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks Chaps

A good afternoons work today making the return crank, this is a tricky little beast, I've had a good head scratch over it, all the drawings show it as one piece, however I think it will be easyer to make as two pieces and still function correctly.

The drive pin is positioned relative to the drive slots and its position times the engine, you can get the position with a rotary table or you can use cordinates from the centre line, I've dimensioned the drawing so you can use either method.

OK first job chunk of 30mm free cutting mild steel in the lathe turn down to 1" and put a small centre in the end,






Keeping the job in the chuck transfer the chuck over to the mill with a centre in the quill wind it down tight into the centre in the end of the job, clamp the chuck to the table, Zero your dials or DRO, You've now got your centre datum.






Then mill the face up to get rid of the centre its done its job and it will only get in the way down line, mill flats and then mill drive slot 3/16"












Then to accuratly locate the drive pin move to drawing cordinates.






Centre drill then drill with a number drill to give a tight fit on 1/8" silver steel, spot of loctite and press pin in using mill head.






Transfer over to lathe turn diameter and part off,






Face up the back, and thats the beast tamed.






and this is where it fits on the crank






Have fun

Stew


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## Deanofid (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks Stew. 
I like the way you go about your work there. I guess, 'cause it's how I try to do things, although I think you have a better handle on how many operations you can get out of a single setup. 
It's kind of a fun part of the game, for me.

Your work looks just great! 

Dean


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## GailInNM (Jan 11, 2010)

Looking very nice Stew. Excellent workmanship.

Regards the copyright question you asked about. From what I can see you have an original design, or at worst case a derivative work based on two designs. So from my view there is no infringement of any kind. Thanks for being concerned about it. One good copyright suit could severely strain HMEM activities so we strictly enforce copyright law here.

Thanks for sharing this build and your drawings with HMEM.

Gail in NM


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## SBWHART (Jan 12, 2010)

Dean/Gail

Thanks for your kind comments, 

Dean:- working out the set ups is certainly the good part of the hobby, I find myself thinking ahead all the time about the next parts I'm going to make, you can do this at any time, but not when the wife is talking to you, that can be painful :big: :big:.

Gail:- Thanks for feed back on the copyright question, I'd hate to cause this great forum pain.

Cheers

Stew


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## ariz (Jan 12, 2010)

what an interesting thread we have here sbwhart!!!
I liked very much everything but particularly the part about cylinders and pistons :bow:
very nice finish and tight tolerance

I'm sorry only that your mother in-laws didn't want to try the ultrasonic cleaner on her teeth :big:


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## SBWHART (Jan 12, 2010)

ariz  said:
			
		

> I'm sorry only that your mother in-laws didn't want to try the ultrasonic cleaner on her teeth :big:




Ariz thanks for your nice comments.

As for ultrasonic cleaning mother in-laws teeth, perhaps next time I'll let her take them out :big: :big: :big: :big: :big:

Have fun

Stew


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## SBWHART (Jan 16, 2010)

Shop time over the last couple of days has been a bit restricted by other commitments. Any way managed to get a few hours in and complete the port flange. By way of a off topic but related bit of kit I took delivery of an coax indicator, I got it from amadeal on ebay www.amadeal.co.uk at £44 + post it was the best price I could find in the UK.






Its quite a long bit of kit and I was strugling with head room what with my rotary table and collet chuck adding to the height, then I remembered a tip from a friend that I could use M3 collets this would give me an additional 3" of room to play with. The coax has a 10mm shank but my collet set is imperial so i made a split collar to use with a 1/2" collet (note to self get a metric set of M3 collets).

So her we are






And this is how you use it.






With a stylus in the bore (or OD) and the outrigger stopped with a magnetic stand, this is to stop it whizzing round and to keep the dial facing you. Run the mill at about 200 rpm, adjust one direction to a point where you get the least dial movement, do the same in the other direction, repeat again, repeat again, after three interation you should end up with zero movement, and thats it you're on centre line, a lot easyer and quicker than having to crane your neck with a dti.

Back to the port flange, for my first attemp I used a bit of scrap yard alluminium phospher bronze, but this material was up to its usual tricks and was a ***** to machine, I don't know now why I tried it. Made onother from a nice bit of free cutting brass, this is a straight forward turning job so no pics.

Now for another bit of off topic but related. The ports are 2mm wide and I don't have a 2mm diameter cutter, cutters this size cost an arm and a leg, and I can't see me using this size very much, but I remember reading that in the "good old days" people would use a D bits to cut the steam ports for model loco, so I set too and made some 2mm dia D bits.

Truning the dia






Sectioning to 1.1 mm:- 0.1 above centre






I blacked the cutter up so I could see what I was doing then with a fine file and under a magnifying glass I backed the cutter off.






Heated them up to cherry red and quenched in water, then gave them a rub on a stone to sharpen the edges up, and her we are done.






To machine out the ports I decided to use the PCD function on the DRO combined with the movement of the rotary table.

Centre the job up using the Coax indicator.

Set Rotary table on zero deg

Set PCD function to drill 8 BA clearance for the clamp screws and drill.

Then set PCD function for port position, drill 1.8 mm hole in each port position using DRO.

Rotate RT +13.5 deg use DRO to drill 1.8 mm at each port position

Return RT to zero then back -13.5 deg use DRO the drill 1.8mm at each port position.

Her we are with all the holes drilled






Then using the little D bit join the holes up by rotating RT 27 deg.






Thats it job done, her it is in position. The D bits worked great them milled a nice accurate 2mm wide slot.






I've completed the assembly drawing for the engine so I've attached it to this thread.

Have fun

Stew

Amend

Whoops forgot to add drawing :- done it now







View attachment Sht 1-Model.pdf


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## SBWHART (Jan 16, 2010)

Got the Orbital Valve machined up, you have to get the thickness of the valve a very accurate fit in the valve chest, so first thing I did was to measure everything up, to determine what thickness it needed to be. Turned up a chunk of cast iron, transfered it over to the mill still in the chuck, well by now you should know the routine, drilled 6 * 1/8" holes, then back onto the lathe to finish off, the under cut face






Parted it off then pushed it hard up against a parallel in the chuck (don't forget to remove the parallel) then faced it off to thickness + 0.20 for lapping each side, and undercut the face.

And her it is in place, you can see the open valve port on the left the other ports are closed off.






At this point I thought thats it all the maching done, but no I've forgotten the stand.

Have fun

Stew


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## cfellows (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm enjoying following your build thread. I notice you have a lot of ER tooling, including an ER collet spin fixture. Did you fabricate that yourself?

Chuck


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## SBWHART (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi Chuck

I've tried to adopt the ER collet system to my kit, my lathe is an elcheapo 3 in 1 that I've removed the mill drill so I guess its a 3 - 2 now, sorry for the pun, and a seig X3 mill.

 My ER kit consist of a Stevenson spin indexer that came with a 5C to ER 32 adaptor, this is it http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/5C-Fixtures, I've got a ER 32 lathe collet chuck that I adapted to fit my lathe, for my rotary table I made a back plate that will fit lathe chucks and the ER 32 collet chuck, I made it from store supplied parts this link will show you what I did http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1330.0. I friend also made me a similar adaptor for the Indexer that will take chucks information her http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2304.0

What I was trying to do is get interchangeable tooling that I can move from the lathe to the indexer or rotary table and back again, and keep the work in place this saves time in setting up, clocking true etc, and improves accuracy.

Hope this helps

Stew


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## Deanofid (Jan 17, 2010)

The valve looks good, Stew. Is it from hot rolled rod? 



			
				SBWHART  said:
			
		

> What I was trying to do is get interchangeable tooling that I can move from the lathe to the indexer or rotary table and back again, and keep the work in place this saves time in setting up, clocking true etc, and improves accuracy
> Stew



Have been working on this for a while, myself. So much time in my shop is spent setting up, and re-setting up on different machines. I'm getting there, but it's a process doing tooling projects between the other fun stuff. It's nice to see the other fellow's methods.

Thanks for the update on your engine.

Dean


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## cfellows (Jan 17, 2010)

Thx, Stew. Looks like a handy setup. 

Chuck


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## SBWHART (Jan 18, 2010)

Thanks for your nice comments and support Guys.

Got some work done on the stand, had a sort through my stash and came up with these bits.






I had a square of black plastic that I was planning to use for the base but it was a bit on the thin side and the proportions didn't look like, that chunk of wood looks a bit thick as well. scratch.gif

Any way made a start on the upright I'm using a bit of ally ingot, its nearly a pyramid, cleaning up the sides.






It was getting a bit difficult to clamp so tilted the head of the mill.






Found a thinner bit of hard wood under the bench that's is a bit thinner. don,t know what sort of wood it is, its a nice gingery red.

Squared up the edges in the mill and used a radius cutter to sculpt the edges.






And thats what its going to look like, I need to get some sand paper to clean it up a bit more but it looks OK.






Made a start on tidying things up and assembly, I,m not a great one for making things too shiny, its just a personal thing, I like them to display honesty and bare witness as to how they were made.


Have fun

Stew


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## arnoldb (Jan 18, 2010)

That is REALLY looking good Stew - great job!

Regards, Arnold


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## SBWHART (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks Arnold

Bit of a short update:- started assembly work, but soon realised that I'd forgotten to mill the 10 deg air pasage in the cylinder, decided the best way would be to use my 2 1/2" sine bar, her it is set up with the corect packing.






And this is how it was used to






Want to try gaskets made from brown paper stuck down with grease, these are the gaskets ready for use, with the tools of the trade.






Spent a fair bit of time makeing and fitting studs and putting the air pipes in the cylinders and giving thinga bit of a tidy up, tried assembling things losely together it all seems to fit.

And this is all the parts exploded.






If I can get the chance I'll start final assembly this afternoon and a trial run, fingers crossed.

Have fun

Stew


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## cfellows (Jan 20, 2010)

Looks like you're getting close, Stew. You're sure doing a nice job with this.

Chuck


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## CMS (Jan 20, 2010)

Good luck with your engine, sure bet that it'll run as good as it looks.


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## ksouers (Jan 20, 2010)

Very nice, Stew.

The end is near ;D

I think you'll like using the gaskets.


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## SBWHART (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks for the good wishes guys.

Didn't get the assy finished today just got a few studs to make, and a hole to drill in the base, started to get tired, thirsty, and cold, so called it a day.

I don't know what you lads think but you don't really start to under stand an engine until you assy it and try to get it to run.

I decided to fit the bearing housing to the crank case with studs and dome nuts, it would have been easyer to use cap screws, the studs meant I had to line them up and at the same time get the crank lined up with the big ends in the con rod and the return crank, I havn't fiddled around so much since the first night of my honeymoon.

  Rof} Rof} Rof} Rof} Rof}

Any way couldn't resist trying out on the base to see what it looked like, so here's a taster:-






Don't half look OK don't it ?

 Thm: ;D ;D ;D ;D

Stew


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 20, 2010)

Gotta tell ya Stew, I really like the base the motor is sitting on. Just fits in well with the look of the engine. Good choice!

Steve


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## Maryak (Jan 20, 2010)

Stew,

Great looking engine and the base really sets it off. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Deanofid (Jan 21, 2010)

It really does look good, Stew. I like the acorns, too.

Dean


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## SBWHART (Jan 21, 2010)

Thanks for your good wishes Lads

I've got it running its a bit slugish I think my compresor is short of wind, not a lot of action to see realy stuck a bit of sticky tape on the flywheel so you could see it was going round, my untidy shop is probably more interesting.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eI926C1PGs[/ame]

         

Going to take it arround to a friends to try it on a bigger compressor and try a tacko on it.

I'll post a proper edited Vid later


A happy Stew


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## CMS (Jan 21, 2010)

IT LIVES!!!! She just needs a little break-in time. Pat yourself on the back for you've a nice piece of bragging material. :bow:


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## GailInNM (Jan 21, 2010)

Congratulations Stew.
 woohoo1
A well done project.
Gail in NM


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## cfellows (Jan 21, 2010)

Really a nice looking engine! Was the sound from the engine or your compressor?

Chuck


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## kustomkb (Jan 21, 2010)

Well done! congratulations.

It looks great, and quick too.


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## SBWHART (Jan 21, 2010)

Hi Chaps thanks very much for your comments.

Chuck thats the compressor you can hear, the engine is relatively quiet bit like a cats purr.

John breathed a bit of extra life into it, I'd got too much clearance in the orbital valve in the team chest, it really speeds along now tacho reading 2200 RPM at max air pressure and it throttles down to just a whisper.

I've got some vids that I'll edit and post over the weekend.

Thanks again

Stew


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## Deanofid (Jan 21, 2010)

It's really quiet, and very smooth running, Stew. 
Super job you've done there!

Dean


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## rake60 (Jan 21, 2010)

Congratulations Stew! Thm:

Rick


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## kvom (Jan 21, 2010)

Nice job as usual!


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## SBWHART (Jan 22, 2010)

Dean/Rick/Kvom

Thanks very much for your kind comments

Her's a posh pic for the album







And the promised edited Vid

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNPtbzcx89w[/ame]

Its been a really enjoyable engine to build, I hope you guys have enjoyed the journey as much as I have.


I've brought the drawings up to date and frozen them by changing the text from red to black, and attached them to this post

Have fun

Stew 

View attachment Sht 1-Model.pdf


View attachment Sht 2-Model.pdf


View attachment Sht 3-Model.pdf


View attachment Sht 4-Model.pdf


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## Blogwitch (Jan 22, 2010)

I did get an opportunity to handle this engine yesterday, and I can honestly say, it looks much better than the original Westbury one that I built a few years ago.

With Stew's metric conversion, and some redesigns of the conrod and crank area, he has also managed to get rid of a few of the problem parts that I had when making mine, which was a bit of a dog to make from the casting set I bought.

I did help a minute amount, with a little bit of surface grinding, but only because I don't think Stew realised how much paper gaskets can be compressed when tweaked up, we just relieved a few tight spots and closed down other gaps. 
I made mine without gaskets, so didn't hit the same problems.

Nice one Stew. You've got something to be proud of there.


Blogs


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## Maryak (Jan 22, 2010)

Stew,

Smooth as a baby's bottom. :bow: :bow:

I have exactly the same tacho, given to me by a friend when he retired.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Deanofid (Jan 22, 2010)

Ahh, without the compressor noise in the background, you can hear that is really has a pleasant "radial" kind of sound. 
A super job of it, Stew. Great reading the thread and seeing the pics, too.
Thank you!

Dean


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## Powder keg (Jan 22, 2010)

Great job Stew!!! Sounds super!!


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## 4156df (Jan 22, 2010)

Stew,
Very nice build. I can't believe how smoothly it runs.
Dennis


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## arnoldb (Jan 23, 2010)

:bow: :bow: Great job Stew ;D

Thank you for sharing!

Kind regards, Arnold

Hmmm... Metric... with plans... Oh No - another round tuit!


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## ariz (Jan 23, 2010)

well done, a very nice running engine
it looks well balanced too, or it was fixed to the table in a very strong way 

congrats :bow:


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## SBWHART (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi Guys

I'd like to thank you all for your real nice comments.  th_wav

As I said it was a real enjoyable project, in fact its knocked my plan to get on with my loco build off target a bit, it was the redesign work with the loco lubricator and water pump that prompted me to make the three cylinder, it reminded me how much I enjoy design and development work. So I've got a bit of shop maintenance work to do and a bit of tooling to make, and I want to finish off the part finished elbow engine to raise a bit of shop cash, then I'm seriously considering doing another small engine build, I've seen a small Grasshopper Engine at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry that's just crying out to be modeled.

I've attached a pdf file thats got all four drawing sheets on one file.

Thanks again

Stew


View attachment PottyThreeCylinder.pdf


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## Anatol (Jun 10, 2018)

SBWHART said:


> Hi Chaps
> it going to be based on two design of model radial steam engines, I'm going to try and take what I think are the best parts in terms of good design and ease of manufacture from these two designs, plus a bit of bling so that they represent an aircraft engine (cooling fins on the cylinders)
> 
> The two design I'm going to work with are:-
> ...



Hi Stew, I've rad through this thread with interest, and will no doubt learn much more from it as I proceed to build. I have some  basic design questions. 
1. What did you think were the "best parts in terms of good design" in each?
2. Do you still think so? 
3. Can you outline the way the rotary valve works, and give your assessment of how well it works? 
thanks!


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