# Two cylinder flame eater with internal valves



## zturgut (Dec 23, 2009)

I have just started a "Two cylinder flame eater engine with internal valves" which is an adaptation based on the Jan Ridders Flame Eater engine. Though the operating system is exactly the same there are some differences in materials and the crank shaft design. As I have looked up for the information about this engine, I have had the impression that it needs high precision production to obtain the required vacuum effect and low friction. Because I am not sure I can reach such precision work and low tolerances with my conventional equipment and poor experience I have decided to use stainless steel tubes for the cylinders which provide quite smooth inner surface that you don't have to do anything about it. Depending on my previous experiences on steam engines with stainless steel tubes I finished the new CAD drawings and placed the tubes in an aluminium block stabilizing them by set screws. Against the risk of having problems with transfer of heat between the cylinders and the block I may think of some kind of water cooling. Anyway, we'll see 
Regards,
Zeki


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## JimN (Dec 24, 2009)

Looks interesting Zturgut, did you do the 3D drawing?

JimN


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## zturgut (Dec 24, 2009)

Yes, I have done the drawing using AutoCAD.


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## ksouers (Dec 25, 2009)

Interesting build, Zeki.

I don't think I've seen a 2 cylinder flame licker before. Definitely unique.


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## zturgut (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks for your interest,
As I have mentioned this is an adaptation of the Jan ridders flame eater engine and it runs (I hope) exactly the same way. The main difference is the materials I chose for the cylinder and the block in order to overcome (my) difficulties in producing very high compression and low friction. In fact using two materials is a change itself. The twin flywheels is another change. I also wonder if it is going to be one of those many sad stories about flame eaters.. 
Here is the video of the Jan Ridders 2cyl.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTNeNA1djsI[/ame]


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## NickG (Dec 28, 2009)

Zeki,

Just seen this and I will be glued to this post. Got all my fingers and toes crossed for you as mine is fast turning out to be one of those sat flame eater stories!

Nick


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## zturgut (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks Nick,
Here is the actual appearance with some parts assembled. I will keep sharing the further progress.
Zeki


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## NickG (Dec 29, 2009)

Zeki, you are absolutely flying along on this project!
Nice work.

I'm off to try to ream my cylinder parallel and round and make a new piston and valve. What are you using for the pistons / valves? I used cast iron first time but have run out so going to try them in gunmetal - piston and cylinder will be different materials then though. I will have to get some more cast iron when metal shop re-opens.

Nick


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## zturgut (Dec 29, 2009)

For the pistons and valves I will try brass first because I've had satisfactory results in some previous steam engine projects with stainless tube cylinders and brass pistons. In order to take advantage of the smooth and hard inner surface of (304) stainless steel tube, first I have found the available tube with dimensions close enough to my expectations, then made the complete design and production. For the steam engines the result was quite good but if the brass pistons don't work in this case, I will try graphite next for both pistons and valves, insisting on stainless steel cylinders.
Zeki


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## NickG (Dec 30, 2009)

Zeki,

I got mine reamed and the bore is much better now. I have made an aluminium valve really to check the size, but am not really expecting it to work. I am going to try gunmetal though until I get more cast iron so will let you know the results. I think brass and stainless should be ok, it's just whether the differential expansion causes any unnecessary friction.

Nick


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## zturgut (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks Nick,
I will be waiting for your results. 
Here is another step. The flywheel is borrowed from another engine. (I'm not that fast) 
Zeki


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## NickG (Jan 2, 2010)

Nice work Zeki,

Looking really good. If you continue to make it in that vane it should work! Hopefully as you said the twin cylinder will be a bit more stable, of course the method of driving the valves is different so that might be better.

Fingers crossed.

Nick


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## Blogwitch (Jan 2, 2010)

Kevin,

A long time ago, I cobbled together two of the Jan Ridders singles to make a twin engined version.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=350.0

It was after this, I contact Jan, and he then went over to the vertical burner design, as it was a lot more reliable than the angled one he was using, and actually allowed the engine to be moved whilst running, and also, to be able to run outside, a thing unheard of up until then, according to Jan.


Blogs


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## ksouers (Jan 2, 2010)

Thanks, John. I don't recall seeing that before. That's a very nice runner, nice and smooth.
I can't believe how easily that started.

Zeki, thanks for the video. I'm just wondering how the siamese cylinder compares to the boxer layout. It'll be interesting to watch this build.


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## zturgut (Jan 4, 2010)

Blogs,
The boxer runs great. It's been encouraging though I'm not so sure mine is going to be some runner to compare with. 
The crank shaft and the burners area almost done. I hope it will not be too heavy with twin flywheels on it. Now its time for pistons and valves. I will try brass first for the pistons.

Zeki


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## Blogwitch (Jan 4, 2010)

Zeki,

If I was attempting to make this engine, I would try to get it running with just one flywheel first, then when it runs, try it with the second one.

Jan had a lot of trouble getting this design working, and did a lot of mods to get it running. I wouldn't stray too far from given weights at this time. Your crank with one flywheel 'looks' about the same sort of weight that Jan has used for his.

I only really have to 'touch' the flywheel on mine into the direction it needs to go, and it picks up from there. No heavy spinning at all. I spent hours flicking it too hard, then I just touched it one time and away it went. I start it the same way every time now. It must be something to do with how the engine breathes.

This is another one of my engines that needs a good dose of clean up and bling, but I will get it running on gas first, that way it should stay cleaner for longer.


Blogs


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## NickG (Jan 4, 2010)

I'd agree with Blogs, when I saw the design and the engine I thought Jan must have plucked the dimensions from thin air to suit what materials he had, but I am finding out the hard way that he hasn't, I think he's got a lot of experience in making stirlings and flame lickers and as Blogs said, quite a bit of development work went into it. So try to keep weights / dimensions etc. as near as damn it is to swearing to give yourself the best chance.

I've just remembered that at the harrogate show I saw a single cylinder version of Jans internal valve that somebody obviously had problems with as it was converted to an external cam driven valve! Can't remember if I had a picture of it somewhere.

Nick


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