# PMR 5bi



## PaulG (Feb 18, 2010)

Hello All,

The PMR 5BI is is my first build. I have limited machining experience & I am hard headed about asking for help. To tell you the truth, I am more nervous over trying to type something that makes sense, than cut into a $$$ casting. I must say that I have had a lot fun working on this engine, and lost more hair too. I have made mistakes, boo boo's, tell ya later. I found getting so involved that I forgot to take pictures at points. I would like to thank all people that have contributed to the wealth of information within HMEM, newbie's to Pro's. Thank you all !!!

The following is just my opinion from one PMR casting kit: The thinner cast Iron parts have very hard edges, causing extreme cutter wear. Bronze flywheel and belt wheel's suffer from casting shift, my kit anyway. Overall a nice kit.

Ok, here we go, I should complete this project by the weekend, then we''ll see if it will run.






PMR 5BI kit as received.





I found the best wheel side, edge of hub to inner, outside rim, drilled & reamed.










I gave em spin to see how they looked, hub/rim





Turned & threaded a mandrel. snug fit to wheel bores, faced & crowned wheels.










Finished, except for set screw's.

On to flashing removal next....see you all later, taking Mom to the dentist, at 92 and her NOT wanting to go...this should be fun.

Paul


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## SAM in LA (Feb 18, 2010)

Looking forward to seeing your build progress.

So your Mom is 92 and still puts up a good fight. *knuppel2*

Good for her.

I'll be lucky if I'm still around.

SAM


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## Philjoe5 (Feb 18, 2010)

Nice work Paul. Great pictures, thanks for sharing your progress.  :bow:


Cheers,
Phil


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## zeeprogrammer (Feb 18, 2010)

Great start Paul.
The wheels look great from my perspective.
I'll be interested to see the rest.


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## ChooChooMike (Feb 18, 2010)

I have a 5BI also waiting to be built. It'll be a while though before I get around to it. So I look forward to your build 

Mike


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## PaulG (Feb 18, 2010)

Hello again, Back from the dentist, not a bad trip, Mom only only got after the office girls for accounting practices. Thanks for the comments. Please, feel free to make comments, criticisms, or whatever about my methods, set-up"s, anything... as I don't know what I am doing, I look at the print, part & go for it. I need to stop and look at big picture... I started this project on January 22 according to the camera, so this stuff is past tense. You might notice pic's at 3am. or later, up late, up medium early, 8 ... 8:30.

Ok, flashing, sprues.

I just ground them off with the bench grinder & disk/belt sander.





Before

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af91/pgablehouse/PMR%205Bi
/DSC02751.jpg





















Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 18, 2010)

A little more on making or ruining parts.







Lower cylinder head, used to locate bolt holes in bottle frame & cyl. block. All done except for piston rod bore & packing gland recess, easy enough :big: The print says, " 1/8" DRILL THRU, 3/16" DRILL 5/32" DEEP" 8th in. fine, 3/16" lost my mark on tail stock, pull it back, mic the depth, .01 short, pull TS back up & crank the new cobalt drill in for a little more, sucks the drill right though the last .07 of material, Dumb, A$$ forgot to lock down TS... I had some 6061, made a new one. Now we don't have a wall of shame at Paul's shop, we have a black lagoon that keeps things like this from view, it will be pictured at post end.
















When I remade the part I reversed drill procedure, I recommend drill the big hole to depth, then drill through on a part like this, just in case you forget to lock down your Tailstock...

Just outside my shop is the Black Lagoon, I deposit all bad parts here, in hopes of appeasing the rotten Beaver that chews my trees half. 












You might get to see this one a LOT, I will try to change it with the seasons, just to keep thing fresh. *Test*,  how many rocks did this old fool throw, to get the Pic.

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 19, 2010)

A few more







Connecting Rod





Sawed off after drilling & tapping





same with Eccentric strap





Eccentric strap, faced one side, bored, inside groove, faced other side on mill.





Cylinder head





Slide Valve






Paul


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## tel (Feb 19, 2010)

> Just outside my shop is the Black Lagoon, I deposit all bad parts here, in hopes of appeasing the rotten Beaver that chews my trees half.



Aaaargh! Carefully stow 'em in your 'future parts' box - the beaver are probably best appeased with a thutty thutty.


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## Philjoe5 (Feb 19, 2010)

Great pictures Paul. You seem to be going through this casting kit in "fast forward" mode. 

If I look carefully at the picture you took of the lake, in the background I can just make out what looks like an angry furry animal making an obscene gesture in your direction. Would that be "Bucky"? Rof}

Cheers,
Phil


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## PaulG (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi, Tel & Phil 

I give Bucky that same gesture back!!! If the little bugger doesn't like the Brass hes going to get that lead pill that Tel suggests. Phil I started on January 22, sorry about that...

Paul


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## b.lindsey (Feb 19, 2010)

Great thread Paul. I've got one of these waiting...er...aging in the wings too. Just no time to get to it for now. The set-up pics will be nice to review though when that time comes. Keep up the good progress

Bill


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## PaulG (Feb 19, 2010)

Phil & Tel,  OT. a little bit of "Buckys" fine work, I wish I could make chips as fast ;D





















I had wire mesh around the trees when small, no problems for eight years. The last two years Bucky has dropped 7, dead standing 2, working on 2. I never see him, hes much smarter than Axe Men.

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi Bill,

 Thanks, I hope some of this can be of help. The worst part was the Valve Chest Cover, very hard edges, ruined a new USA cutter.

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 19, 2010)

And More....





The engine base Alum. The casting was .06 shorter, as received, than finished specs. Milled both sides W/fly cutter. Thanks for the tip's on grinding fly cutter bits, nice finish. I took off .035 in one pass ?? don't know if this is wise or not?





The engine will be shorter now, so it should be easier to slide through a scale doorway 





Valve Cover





Cross Head





Messed up Cross Head (Beaver Treat)





New Cross Head, doesn't look as good as casting, but it should work.

Paul


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## Twmaster (Feb 19, 2010)

Honestly Paul, I like the brass part better than the beaver treat... er, I mean casting.


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## gbritnell (Feb 19, 2010)

Excellent writeup on the build Paul. The only PMR kit I have built is the lathe and all of the castings were aluminum. I had read another post some time back where the author was having trouble with one of his castings. It was recommended that he send it back to them as they are good people to deal with.
gbritnell


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## NickG (Feb 19, 2010)

Nice work Paul, I had similar problems the last time I tried to use castings, I was pretty young at the time but it put me off enough not to attempt anything with them again in the last 12 years! I'll have to do a similar project to yours to get into the swing of maching castings one day though I guess.


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## PaulG (Feb 19, 2010)

Twmaster, gbritnell, NickG

Hey, Thanks for your comments, just trying to learn. I bought the casting kit because looks like one used in the family sawmill, 1930 ... 1960. The engine ran the trim saw & two chip conveyors. Starting to think about a semi-scale replica. I enjoy making parts from rod & bar stock, but the castings require a lot more pre-planing, on my part anyway... especially when the darn things are under finished size to start with.

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 19, 2010)

Hello All

Cross Head: I dont know where I messed up, bad calculations, backlash, it happens. I use a Hermann Schmidt edge finder, seems to repeat well, just part of being a Grub at this. I guess you just keep making bad parts, until you learn how to make good ones. On the new Cross Head, I had to pull out all the stops, no DRO, just dials & indicators. Turned C/H  OD & sides, back in mill, find center, and added this stuff.






The new one was spot on ??? 

Small, short parts are hard to see under the quill. I have developed a bad habit of using the drill chuck to hold end mills under .250 to facilitate clearance & vision at times. I admire the members that make little bitty parts, you guys are awesome!!!

Cylinder Block: I lightly faced one end, same on OD. measured everything , flipped it end for end, faced, turned OD, and bored .004 under. Flip, and finish other end. Turned a Mahogany dowel, snug fit (that was a mistake, to tight) and lapped cylinder. I started with valve grinding compound. I handheld the cyl, that lasted about four seconds, seized, put a strap wrench on cylinder, lathe in back gear and give it a go. After 1 2 minutes of sliding it back & forth on the lap, and one end to end change it was to hot to touch. Cooled it down, mic it .003 over. Well crap, I am not a machinist, just Grub, no piston yet anyway, more surface area, more power!!! Next compound used was Meguiars Heavy Cut Cleaner #4, used on auto paint, then finished with Brasso. The final bore size is secrete, unless I get tech inspected at some steam engine competition.
















I almost messed this up, we will see. I believe that I bumped the hand wheel after setting up the cut, yep, forgot to lock table. The 20deg. Angle hole, end of cylinder to valve port. The cutter just took a little chip out of the port side, inside the steam chest.











Paul


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## Philjoe5 (Feb 19, 2010)

Great progress Paul and you are kind to stop work mid-stream and take a picture for us. I agree - casting kit engines are major planning events. I recently finished one and it went sort of like this. Plan, make a fixture, plan, stop. Go into the shop, spend 5 minutes machining. Sweep us swarf with toothbrush. Go back to drawing board and plan next step. 

Watch out for the evil beaver, anyway.  ;D

Cheers,
Phil


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## PaulG (Feb 20, 2010)

Hello

Crank Shaft: When I received this kit, I almost sent it back. The crank was badly warped, IMO. I started with the intension of turning between centers, drilled the centers, mounted it, didnt look good, measured it. I felt that I would not have enough material to cleanly get the connecting rod journal fully into good metal, without offsetting the axel centers to start with. Now, the Crank, like other parts is shorter than finish dimensions called out, so cutting off the ends & starting over is out ??? My decision was to shim one jaw on the 3J chuck .040 and skim cut the free end to good metal, well it worked. On my crank the factory, caster, ground the sprue down to far on the throw, if I had turned CC the rod journal would have been interrupted .007, Just something to look for.











Overhang ? taking .002 each pass, took hours!

Connecting Rod Throw: I had already made the Eccentric Hub, not bad, turned the diameters and pushed it over with two chuck wrenches, one on each side, .100, trued face with DTI, tap it in with small soft face hammer, drill & bore. I laid out the throw center with the height gauge, checked it three times, all ok. Clamp in 4Jaw work it over .437, according to my indicator setup, true it every way I can think of. One last check, put the laser in the tailstock & see what it says, hmmm, about .011 short. Decisions, decisions, more torque or RPM, getting old, went with torque. I moved it out, and realigned it. I like the Laser, I have read good & bad about them. Once dialed in it works well for me.










I took the lens off the laser so you can see the dot, the dot can be as fine as frogs hair.

Paul


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## zeeprogrammer (Feb 20, 2010)

Nice progress Paul.
I appreciated the detail you gave on lapping. I don't much about it so I'm always looking for information.


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## PaulG (Feb 20, 2010)

Hello Zee,

I searched HMEM and others, a lot of opinions, basically just used what I had. The one thing I can tell you, don't make the lap to snug to start with. I tend to rush everything, run it a little bit & look it over. Time to do your Loco cylinders?

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 20, 2010)

Hello All

*Crank Shaft Throw & Thrown: 
*
After getting the crank offset dialed in it was time to cut the con rod clearances. The only thing that would get that close to chuck, that I had, was an old lantern style parting tool of Dads from years ago, with a short blade. I hate parting tools !!! I had ordered some but my buddy the UPS man wasnt scheduled to bring it that day. I love this guy, he shows up here about, two  three times a week. A couple week ago the UPS guy says, that Beaver is really doing a number on your trees ya, can never see him  UPSG, I saw him yesterday when I pulled in, walking across the yard No Joke .. I live here, cant see him, this guy pulls in, what, 8  12 times a month for two minutes & eye balls the darn critter??? By the way, while I am goofing off at your expense, my girlfriend, hates you people, I blame all of the tool buying on you, she will ask, whats that?  new in the crate, 10 rotary table I reply,  gf? Whats that, it looks the same  6 rotary table
  Well why do you need two? I cant lift the big one, she really hates you. Just kidding, back to work. 

I pulled the QC tool post and installed the lantern W/parting tool. Remember these castings have a very hard skin, I manage to get in the side next to the chuck, start in the other side, I am running in back gear @ 42 RPM, slowest power cross feed setting, when the bit hit the flashing, Wham Crank is gone!!! Shut it down, at first I thought it must have snapped in half, nothing in the chuck. Looked all over, no pieces, no crank After fifteen minutes I finally found it, back under the headstock, fished it out with a piece wire, another five minutes. Two small dents, filed off the high spots, still straight. I got lucky, not hurt, machine & part okay. 

Paul


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## PaulG (Feb 21, 2010)

Hello

Valve Slide Bearings:

I faced & milled the 45s, as a unit







Bottle Frame:

I faced the faced the bottom, then turned the top and bored crosshead ways.
















Milled bearing pedestals, made a long reach #50 drill (1/8 rod w/drill soldered in). Mounted caps, drilled & reamed.


























Some of the parts





That's it, ready for paint, it's been curing for two days now. I assembled everything this afternoon, turns over hard, but at @ 100psi I should have 30lbs. of push. I have not put air to it yet, as I wanted video the attempt to run or not. I am having problems with the download, upload, whateverload, to Photobucket, stops every time at 60% ? I should have taken more time on some things, overall I really enjoyed this experience. My next project is the PMR Horizontal Boiler Kit. I am going to ask for your help & knowledge....
I hope there is at least one thing in all of this, that is of help to others. PaulG


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## gbritnell (Feb 21, 2010)

Paul, as far as I'm concerned you made a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It's tricky enough to work with castings but when they are as rough as some of the ones you got it makes it really frustrating. Excellent work on the crankshaft. I think I would have pitched it and made my own. I'm sure your boiler project will be great with what you've learned from this kit.
George


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## zeeprogrammer (Feb 21, 2010)

PaulG  said:
			
		

> I hope there is at least one thing in all of this, that is of help to others.



Oh there's more than one thing. Believe me.

Nice looking engine. I hope you get the video going...I'd like to see it.


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## b.lindsey (Feb 21, 2010)

Beautiful build Paul and I will be referring to it I am sure when I get around to starting mine. I look forward to the video too. Well done...thanks for sharing the build.

Bill


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## Philjoe5 (Feb 21, 2010)

Paul,
As a new guy let me just say your efforts of documenting your work were worth the effort you made to share them. You displayed lots of machine setups that were new to me. A karma to you for sharing your work while fighting off the mighty beaver! ;D

Cheers,
Phil


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## Deanofid (Feb 21, 2010)

You came out with a really nice looking engine there, Paul. Very attractive!

Will be great to see the video.

Dean


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## Twmaster (Feb 21, 2010)

That's magnificent Paul. Thank you for sharing your build. I learn something with every build I follow. 

Excellent work! :bow:


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## PaulG (Feb 22, 2010)

Everyone !!! I thank you for your very kind comments. I put the engine on the shelf, and I will not try to run it until I get the video thing worked out. This might take me 2 ... 3 weeks, the engine will not be touched, rebuild, replaced, etc. I will ask of you, to watch closely and help me diagnose problems. 

Paul


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## NickG (Mar 4, 2010)

Brilliant work there paul, very nice result. Looked a tricky project that one.

Nick


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## Jtrain (Mar 4, 2010)

very nice workmanship. and excellent photos.


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## AlbertdeWitte (May 7, 2015)

Hi Guys

I am new here, I am posting a pic of mine. I really enjoyed building this engine. I am now busy with # 1, then #6 and the Red Wing after that, will surely keep me busy for a loooong time lol

Regards

Albert


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