# Small gas torch



## firebird (Oct 11, 2008)

Hi

I've seen some small gas torches advertised, they are re-filled with cigarette lighter gas. Has anybody had any experience with them. Can they be used for silver soldering small parts together? I have a propane bottle and torch and oxy acet but both are a bit cumbersome when working on small parts

Cheers

Rich


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## Stan (Oct 11, 2008)

It depends on how how big the flame is and how big the piece is that needs to be silver soldered. I bought one that is just a throwaway lighter in a case with an adjustable flame. I haven't taken it apart to see how it is constructed.

The flame is about 3/8" long and 1/8" wide at the widest part of the cone. It burns at the flame temperature of the butane and will melt .031" silver solder on a very small part. For the size of part it can heat to soldering temperature, it would probably be better to use .015" silver solder.

It is more of a tool for jewelery work than model engines but for those who make jewelery size model engines it would be great. Moving up in size, there is one that attaches to the top of the disposable butane tank (about 1" x 4") that would be of more use.


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## Kludge (Oct 11, 2008)

firebird  said:
			
		

> Hi



Hi, Rich,



> Can they be used for silver soldering small parts together? I have a propane bottle and torch and oxy acet but both are a bit cumbersome when working on small parts



Define "small". 

Also, what kind of silver solder do you mean?

My heat sources at present are a Smith mini-torch (currently Oxy/Acetylene but will be Oxy/Propane when I can get to the welding supply house) and a Weller Butane torch. Sometime in the near future, I'll be adding a Propane/Air mini-torch from Micro-Mark. (This doesn't include the alcohol lamp & blow tube for _really_ small work.)

All of them will get up to the required temperature required for most common silver solders (roughly 1400o) and, for very small items, can handle the much higher temperatures (around 2300o)required by jeweler's silver solder. Where the difference comes in is in how much is needed to heat the parts being soldered. My Weller can handle the really small pieces while the Propane/Air one should be able to manage the vast majority of the remainder which will leave the Smith for the "heavy lifting" (which, as you might tell, isn't all that heavy.) 

So, building a boiler - ain't gonna hack it. Doing fitting makeups for the tubing et al required - an excellent choice. Anything else ... give it a shot. 

Oh, and if you smoke, they make great windproof lighters. 

Best regards,

Kludge (waiting for the coffee to brew)


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## firebird (Oct 11, 2008)

Hi Kludge

Small = silver soldering the nipples into 1/8 copper pipe, attaching parts less than 1/4 square, that kind of small.

Cheers

Rich


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## rickharris (Oct 11, 2008)

The lighter torches are really only for very small jobs. I most frequently use a standard DIY shop butane torch and if I need a lot of heat a standard gas and forced air torch.

Silver soldering works well with propane and air from a small compressor. I have used a 12 volt car tire compressor in the past with a standard propane tank - The torch came from a jewellery supply house and provided a fine hot flame.

Making an enclosed oven from fire bricks also helps keep the heat where it is needed.


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## Kludge (Oct 11, 2008)

firebird  said:
			
		

> Small = silver soldering the nipples into 1/8 copper pipe, attaching parts less than 1/4 square, that kind of small.



Okay, this works. Not a lot of mass to carry the heat away (the major problem in this situation in most parts of the galaxy) and plenty of heat for the sort of solder you'll be using. Otherwise, it's Plan 9 a la Rick. 

BEst regards,

Kludge


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## jack404 (Oct 11, 2008)

G'day Firbird

i have one that refills from a butane lighter refill

i use it a lot it has a good output if it is a bit heavy on the butane but i can get steel rod red hot in minutes 
( 1/4" and 1/2 ")  i use it for silver solder and light brazing even

it will put out a blue flame 3" long for about 15 minutes before needing a refill and a 1" flame i have not used so long it needs a refill but guess 30 minutes.

hope this helps







cheers

jack


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## PTsideshow (Oct 11, 2008)

Depending on the type and and job at hand some of the smaller newer torches can do a great job and be flexible enough that they can be used for other things to.




The old standard prest-o-lite torch rig air /acetylene with assorted tips below









a newer style developed propane tank torch comes in two versions one for the small tanks and the fat boy tanks as they are calling them now and one set up for what they call the bulk or BBQ type tanks in the US.





Here is a good source for assorted brands and styles of torches for modeling and jewelry/silersmithing work.
http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?action=search&keys=&catID=214&Submit=+Search+ 10 pages of torches and lots of other stuff you never knew you needed till you saw it.
The EZ torch is also sold as the shark brand torch.http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=1238

The problem I have with the butane refillable torch I have. Is it seems to run out at the worst moment in the job no matter when you refill it.


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## greenie (Oct 11, 2008)

A photo, or even a link to what you are referring too, would be extremely helpfull, then you get a definite answer if it will do the job or not.


regards greenie


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## Hilmar (Oct 11, 2008)

> Hi Kludge
> 
> Small = silver soldering the nipples into 1/8 copper pipe, attaching parts less than 1/4 square, that kind of small.
> 
> Cheers


Hi Rich
  1/4 " Part but how long is the 1/8' pipe? That matters also
Hilmar


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## firebird (Oct 12, 2008)

Hi

The type I have seen is the one posted by Jack above. I have seen them e-bay for about £5.00 so they are not that expensive. Maybe the only way to find out is to get one and give it a go. For the money they look pretty good.

Cheers

Rich


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## IanN (Oct 12, 2008)

Hi,

For really small stuff the blowpipe is a very delicate tool.

A reference has already been made to it but no pics yet, so I've uploaded some of mine:






It is a bit clearer without my hand in the pic (the tube at the top of the pic is a cap to cover the wick when not in use):






The body is full of wadding, the base unscrews to allow the wadding to be soaked with meths (alcohol). It gives a nice big (but cold) flame:






Blow down the tube to get a little hot flame:






My blowpipe is very old and of unknown make. It may have been home made - the top of the unit clearly show that it was made by brazing a large nut into the top of a tube:






Ian.


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## firebird (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi

The opportunity came my way to buy a small gas torch for £10.00 so I bought one along with a large refill can for £1.49. 






I held a couple of pieces of brass together as shown, dabbed a bit of flux on and placed a snippet of silver solder next to the joint.






The heat was applied and very quickly the flux bubbled up and turned liquid then the silver solder melted and ran along the joint.
















So to answer my own question, yes they can be used to silver solder small parts together. A very useful bit of kit, well worth the money.

Cheers

Rich


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## jack404 (Oct 27, 2008)

but you got the nice coloured one!!

you know what this means

i gotta get a racing stripe

good one rich

cheers


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## mklotz (Oct 27, 2008)

firebird  said:
			
		

> Maybe the only way to find out is to get one and give it a go.



If it won't work for your soldering/brazing jobs, you can always use it to make creme brulee. My wife has her own for just that task.


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## firebird (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi

The choice was orange or green, not much to choose between the two. I should be able to find it in the dark though. No cake making, I'll restrict my activities to soldering.

Cheers

Rich


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 27, 2008)

I have been wanting to get a smiths jewelers micro torch. the torch is $100-130 but the price of tanks is holding me back right now. 
Tin


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## firebird (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi Tin

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cbt5k-butane-gas-torch-kit/path/

Cheers

Rich


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## jack404 (Oct 27, 2008)

Tin here tanks are 
$140 + a year rental plus the gas

i would use less than half a tank a year ( $30 of gas last time i topped up for both!!!) and thats the tiny ones 
its a rort ( scam) 


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

jack


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## bentprop (Oct 27, 2008)

I have a torch/soldering iron like Tin shows,Portasol brand,but I mainly use it for soldering.The main reason being I can't seem to get the thing really full of gas.It never seems to take more than half a fill,before the can starts "blowing off".I also have one of the cheap pencil torch type things,but that's more use for heatshrink tubing than anything else.It does get quite hot,but again always runs out of puff at the critical moment.
For brazing and silver soldering anything I mostly use an LPG torch kit and a 5kg bbq tank.This does pretty much everything I need.I think I've refilled the tank twice in about 12 years,and since it requires re-testing at the next fill,I'll just buy a new tank.The test costs more than the (filled)new tank ???
I got 2 different tip sizes with the torch,and very seldom need to use the larger one.I can vary the flame from about 1/2" up to 2",which is useful for most work.
I'd love to get one of the little oxy/acet outfits that Micromark sells,but it can't be shipped,and it's not available here .
As for full size oxy acet,This has now been priced completely out of range for the handyman.


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 27, 2008)

something like this 





Or this





The old champagne taste on a root beer budget syndrome . 
Tin


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## tel (Oct 27, 2008)

jack404  said:
			
		

> Tin here tanks are
> $140 + a year rental plus the gas
> 
> i would use less than half a tank a year ( $30 of gas last time i topped up for both!!!) and thats the tiny ones
> ...



*There goes another satisfied BOC customer! Rental goes up by leaps and bounds every year. *


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 27, 2008)

Here in the states all but the large full sized tanks are "owned" This really means if you buy a set of new empty tanks you turn them in for used full ones and pay for the gas. Actualy you are paying a service fee because a fill on the smallest size tanks is just a few buck less than the next larger size. 
Tin


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## bentprop (Oct 27, 2008)

I know what ya mean,Tel.Here in NZ, BOC won't fill owner bottles now .Safety,they claim.
Luckily,there are a couple of small guys,who are rapidly picking up business from disgruntled former BOC customers.Good on 'em,I say.


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## tel (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes mate, more power to 'em!


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## PTsideshow (Oct 28, 2008)

Here is smiths little torch I got a number of years ago. You can see the hoses and the adapter that hooks to my full size regulators and tanks.




another view 
Picked up the current catalog flyer from the harbor fright store today.
They have this clone of the little torch on sale $89.99 till Nov 10 it is cat#182-1 harbor freight.com Item number is 95671. I can't seem to get a working link. or see the post below.


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## laddy (Oct 28, 2008)

Hey,
 I faced the same problem. I needed to do some silver soldering and couldn't believe my hand held propane torch couldn't do it. I went out and bought a torch with acetylene and oxygen, filled in tanks that I had and some one gave me. The size of the flame was more than I needed for the small stuff I was doing. I then purchased a Smith's little torch off ebay. WoW! The answer to my prayers. It is really great. I use it exclusively but I do small steam engine stuff. I am delighted with my stuff. Fred


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## RollaJohn (Oct 29, 2008)

Glen the link doesn't work as listed. All I get is: "Sorry, the item number is not a valid item." Maybe somehing to do with it being on sale or in a store flyer. The link for the item online prices the torch at $109.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95671


On further exploring of the Harbor Freight website if you check out page 4 of the FREE RETAIL FLYER there it is and at the sale price.


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## BobWarfield (Oct 29, 2008)

Hey PT, I really like the look of the Smith's for small work! I'd love to hook one of those up to my Oxy rig from time to time.

There've been many pictures posted already of the various rigs to attach a hose between the propane tank and torch. Those seem like a nice alternative.

I use the little "Creme Brulee" torches myself. Wifey still hasn't discovered ours is missing from the kitchen and the kids have been asking for Brulees, so I'll be in trouble soon and have to buy a new one for the kitchen. Or maybe not. The infamous 800watt, an eBay seller many have complained about, gave me 2 of these little torches for free on an order recently. I've always had good luck with him, FWIW.

Lastly, I managed to saw my Tig torch hose in half (don't ask, rolled something over it carelessly) so was forced to drag out the oxy-acety rig. I hadn't fired it up in probably 15 years. Did a little soap bubble test at first (skeptical about the old thing), but it ran like a champ and there was a lot of gas in the bottles. 

I really enjoy gas welding a lot. It's so tactile and visual. Tig is a bit sterile by comparison. I really should do more silver soldering on projects. Need to track down a good price on some silver solder. Seems I always just bum a small piece from a friend and never have it available when I could use it.


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