# AL320G Lathe - The Big Clean



## joco-nz

A new Chinese built lathe seems to mean a big clean up.  Before starting on this I did a check with Machinery House, the NZ wing of the AU Hare & Forbes, and they informed me the head is cleaned, oiled and run up before shipping.  So the focus will be on the ways, saddle, cross-slide, top-slide (aka compound) and tail stock.

This being a bit of a learning experience I'm taking things slow and steady.  So to start with I sourced some White Spirits (it seems to less "nasty" than Kerosene), a big pack of cheap toilet paper and a couple of large aluminium roasting trays to act as washing tubs and a spray bottle to apply the white spirits. As of writing I think I will pop in to Bunnings and get a Bag-of-Rags and some chip-brushes.

On the lubrication front I read the manual, read the forums, checked some Youtube videos listened to some advice from some people and settled on:
Helix 20W oil (essentially SAE20)
Lanox MX4

I used the SAE20 oil for lubrication on all the oil points per the lather manual and the MX4 is used as a general rust inhibitor on all the metal surfaces.  As I'm a about 400m from the sea as the crow flys I need to be a little paranoid on the rust stopping front.


Anyway, some pics of the top-slide.

The reassembled slide after cleaning.  There is still some discolouration were the tool post sits.  Not sure how to get rid of that, it doesn't seem to want to move even after a scrub with a brass bristled brush.




View under the slide.  You can see a couple of areas where the casting has what I believe are minor flows.   The small void on the base that mates with the cross slide is the only potential issue of the two flaws. However given how small it is (probably under 2% if not 1% of the whole area) I doubt that is a problem.



A view of where the lead screw/bearing/handle assembly mounts.  You can see the gib, screw and alignment pin holes.  The screw hole beside the gib is VERY close to the edge.  Hopefully that's not going to cause an issue down stream. No idea if it should be a warranty discussion of if that's "just how its built".



Next step is to do some adjustment of the gibs and see how smooth I can get things.  It will also let me know if I need to do some form or lapping at a later date. i.e if things are stiff at different points on the slide travel.


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## Blogwitch

J,

I personally think you are making a grave mistake by not using a 68 grade slideway oil.
In a couple of years I think you may as well forget about the rust problems as your ways will be badly worn by then.

There are oils for almost every application, and slideway oil is a specially prepared product, as I explained in an earlier post.
There are wives tales of using motor oil, STP mixed with goodness knows what and dealers who just can't be bothered to look up the correct lubricants for machinery like ours, some detergent oils are even capable of removing zinc from any brass or maybe even phos bronze parts on your lathe, so it is actually a minefield where you can actually do real damage by using the wrong stuff.

You should be able to get the correct oils from almost any good oil supplier, and if your lathe supplier doesn't stock it, then they don't know what they are talking about and aren't worth trading with as all they will be is box shifters.

This is just a normal tool dealer in the UK, and they know what you should be using. Half way down the page, and a small bottle should last at least a year, so not expensive, FOR THE CORRECT OIL YOU SHOULD BE USING.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Oils.html


John


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## goldstar31

John is quite  correct.  I use 100 grade sideways lube and  ISO32
Hydraulic  oil.  Again,  I use  lard oil. 
My supplies  are got in 5 litre containers from the local firm who supplies industry 
Probably the little men buy from them! 
It's bit like  buying  wine in restaurants 
Norman


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## joco-nz

Gents - I'm not deliberately ignoring your advice just to ignore it. There is however plenty of altarrnative perspective ou there with a decade or more of successful use, using non industry slideway oil with no decernable wear on these small lathes. I think the key being small size compared to a bigger and heavier machine.  Ie one weighing in and 500+kg compared to mine at 280kg.

Having said that, Im not using the lath yet and switching to a specialist ways oil isnt a problem to do.  Finding it in NZ in hobbiest quantities is a different kettle of fish.  Pretty mich everyone sells in 20+ litre containers who have an online presence. The local engineering suppliers dont open in the weekend and unsurprisingly arent going to broach a container to sell me a litre of the stuff. That same "opening" and size problem exists for anyone selling other specialist oils.  You either get what the car focused sellers have or you are a bit stuffed.

Anyway this is the best option I found, http://tradetools.co.nz/products/2831295 , if I go down the specialist oil path.
The only oil the lathe supplier has which meets the manuls ISO 46 spec is: https://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/O002

Cheers,
James.


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## goldstar31

To Hell with the expense,  buy the cat a goldfish


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## XD351

That is why i switched to chain bar oil !
It has a tackiness similar to way oil and the viscosity is similar .
Switching from a lubricant like sae 20 etc to way oil or bar oil the difference is noticeable as way oil is designed to stay there and motor oil is designed to wash out .


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## joco-nz

XD351 said:


> That is why i switched to chain bar oil !
> It has a tackiness similar to way oil and the viscosity is similar .
> Switching from a lubricant like sae 20 etc to way oil or bar oil the difference is noticeable as way oil is designed to stay there and motor oil is designed to wash out .



Yup - plenty of that about in various sized containers.  Supercheap Auto, Bunnings, Mitre10 all have it.


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## joco-nz

So continuing the clean.  Working on the cross slide, taken off the saddle.

"Dirty" condition.  You can see some rust staining on the gib and slide.






Nicely cleaned up.  Good oil channel in place.


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## joco-nz

So pulled the cross slide off.  All good yeah? Wrong.   I didn't cotton on to the fact there is a gear that goes on the cross slide lead screw for the power feed.  All very logical when you see it.  Not so good when you see it after its fallen through the bottom of the saddle <<string of favourite colourful sailor language inserted here>>.   :fan:  :wall:

So ... now I have to take the whole saddle off so I can get it up on a bench and figure out how to get this gear back in place.

Plus side, I'm learning a heck of a lot about my lathe cose I'm having to pull it apart WAY more than I ever planned.

The saddle in all its mocking glory.



The offending gear.  



The lead screw on which is needs to go inside saddle, see the gear key for where it sits on the the shaft.


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## bazmak

If this is your first lathe then your stripping down as far as you can is the best thing you can do at this stage.Also your thoughts on way oil are to my mind correct
On a heavy duty lathe working hard for 50yrs or so in a large engineering workshop then yes I would give thought to using the correct Way oil
However for a home based model engineer, to start with any lube oil will not cause problems.If further down the line you get a chance to change to the correct oil,then do it.When I stripped down my small sc2 as you have done
 I also took off any obviouse burrs and also cleaned the casting areas to the u,side and gave a coat of hammerite paint.Mainly cosmetic but its therapeutic
with your new acquisition.ENJOY and keep us posted lots of photos
You Mentioned living on the coast,i also do and use a piece of old heavy curtain to cover the lathe when not in use
Helps stop moisture condensing and hence surface rust
PS while its stripped down check the oiling points are not blocked
Check also the gib strips.i ran an endmill over the dimples to ensure the screws push horizontal and do not twist the gib


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## dennisa49

Good day,
A tiny thought, right size for me.
Something you wish to consider is that hydraulic fluid is primarily
designed to transmit power rather than as a full time lubricant.
Prossibly not a consideration in this application thought.
Regards,
Dennis


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## joco-nz

dennisa49 said:


> Good day,
> A tiny thought, right size for me.
> Something you wish to consider is that hydraulic fluid is primarily
> designed to transmit power rather than as a full time lubricant.
> Prossibly not a consideration in this application thought.
> Regards,
> Dennis



True and a very reasonable point. Having read the expected usage on this specific oil it seems to also cover basic lubrication.  From what I understand, many hydraulic systems these general purpose oils are designed for expect the oil to also lubricate the pump.  They just tend to be not designed for high heat environments like engines. They also tend to not have detergents in them like car oil as allowing water to be suspended in the hydraulic fluid seems to be regarded as "bad' (tm).

But even if I don't have the right oil to start with and I experiment a bit to get a good oil combination I am comfortable with I think ANY oil is better than NO oil.   :thumbup:

Cheers,
J.


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## joco-nz

So ... the story continues, in a galaxy far far away ... there was gear, all alone and lost wanting to return to its saddle home.

Errr ... okay, back to reality and pictures since they tend to help a lot.  And we ALL like pictures.

So getting the saddle off should be easy right?  Just remove the mount of the lead screw at the end of the bed, pull off the saddle.  Wrong!  Cose I have power feed on both the saddles axis its NOT that simple.  There is a worm gear that the lead screw goes through, this is what always spins with the lead screw and transmits power via a gear train in the saddle.  A simple clutch moves said power between the different drives (the rack on the bed or the cross slide lead screw).  The thing is this worm drive is fixed to the main lead screw vis a pin and a groove (see pic). This groove does NOT go all the way to the tail stock end.  So it WONT SLIDE OFF.   :wall:

After much muttering I found in the component diagrams what I needed to unscrew so that this part was no longer tied to the saddle.



The result - removed saddle.  YAH!  :thumbup:



So after turning the saddle on its back to get at the underside, and using the magic hook of manouvering I managed to get the gear into place and threaded onto the cross slide lead screw. 



 Pic's show it deep at the bottom.  Its the gear that is hidden by the larger one which has moved over through the clutch in the second of the two pics below.  Question, what type of clutch is this anyway? Or is it even a clutch?






So SUCCESS!   As a result our fearless adventurer has earned the ultimate reward ... BEER!  :thumbup: 



Cheers,
James.


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## goldstar31

dennisa49 said:


> Good day,
> A tiny thought, right size for me.
> Something you wish to consider is that hydraulic fluid is primarily
> designed to transmit power rather than as a full time lubricant.
> Prossibly not a consideration in this application thought.
> Regards,
> Dennis


Surprisingly,  Nuto 32 is the recommended oil for My ford's. Years ago I checked  and read the risk  of front bearings  on the Super 7 and  the Glacier  bearings  on  the 7 risked undue  were if not used. Nuto 32 is hydraulic oil! 
I've  used it for rather  longer  than most have  lived.
On that  happy thought, have a nice day


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## joco-nz

bazmak said:


> You Mentioned living on the coast,i also do and use a piece of old heavy curtain to cover the lathe when not in use. Helps stop moisture condensing and hence surface rust


Yup - very good idea. I'm trying to source some old thermal backed curtains.



> PS while its stripped down check the oiling points are not blocked


Yup - doing that.   Making sure I can see where the oil goes as much as that it flows.



> Check also the gib strips.i ran an endmill over the dimples to ensure the screws push horizontal and do not twist the gib


I don't have a mill yet.  Middle of October for my BF20LV to turn up.  :thumbup:

But I can see myself slowly improving and tweaking the base machine over time.


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## Wizard69

While somebody already pointed it out you need to be careful about motor oils.  The detergents in them will damage certain types of plain bearings.    This isn't theoretical.    

As for way oil, anything is probably better than nothing.  Cast iron doesn't suffer like certain brass compounds do with oil additives. You would however want to avoid the very heavy gear oils.  

As for way oil in New Zealand, this sounds like a business opportunity.  Buy a 33 gal drum and decant to resell.  Or just import a pallet load of one quart containers, mark the price up 200% and profit.   Become the Little Machine Shop of New Zealand.


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## goldstar31

It's all hyperbole! There is a ruder expression but  I checked NZ on an Limey laptop and found 3 lots of slideways oil and there was a another site before annoyance returned me to my coffee.

Digitum Extractum!


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## joco-nz

Got things mostly reassembled back onto the lathe other than the top slide. Everything oiled up and sliding nicely.




On the ways oil front we have a decision to step forward with.  It's based on a mix of pragmatisim, chatting/listening to local advice and finally flicking my Kiwi "number 8 wire" switch.  We are running with Chain/Bar Oil.  It's designed to deal with dirty environments and lubricate a component that is not hot (like an engine). Its "sticky" so it won't slide off the ways.  From what I can tell it also doesn't have detergent in it. The stuff I have is blue, I mean not just blue its FECKING BLUE!!


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## joco-nz

goldstar31 said:


> It's all hyperbole! There is a ruder expression but  I checked NZ on an Limey laptop and found 3 lots of slideways oil and there was a another site before annoyance returned me to my coffee.
> 
> Digitum Extractum!



I found sites as well, selling 5L or larger quantities at $50 and rising.  If you managed to find someone selling in 1L quantities at circa $20 (incl delivery) that deliver then awesome.  Please post the links.

At the moment some chain/bar oil (as used by others) on sale for $11 for 1L wins the day until I run out.

Cheers,
james.


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## goldstar31

I buy 5 litres at a time------and have done for more years than I care to recall.

I did economics, cost accountancy and a lot of things that are recorded on worthless certificates lost in drawers somewhere.
Out of it all is the fact that Wizard 69 makes clear is that the mark up on small quantities is colossal.

Perhaps Penny wise, pound foolish should be the thought for the day.

??????????

Norman


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## Blogwitch

James,

You are doing exactly what you should be, but do look closer at what you are taking apart.

I bought my lathe brand new, and had it installed in my shop before I could have a chance to give it a going over.

I soon got into my inspection mode, and many things started to come to  light on the surface, I didn't even get chance to start to really strip  things down before I had totally rejected the lathe and threatened the  supplier with legal action. 
One of the first things I did was go through the brochure, then checked  if what they said there matched what I was seeing with my own eyes,  there were a few obvious discrepancies, such as  being able to get  the cutting tool close enough to the spindle to even cut.
Take pictures of anything you find wrong, then tell the supplier to bend over so you know where to stuff the machine.

Here are just a few of the things I found wrong.

Casting damage hiding under the toolpost.







A very bad ding on the main slideway






A crushed DRO cable






A damaged cable covered up with a bit of tape






Incorrect shaft lengths, these should all look the same as the top one






A chuck guard that was definitely too small, I couldn't reach the outer edge of the faceplate with a cutter with it closed down






A leaking spindle oil seal






Too many paint faults to show, here are just a few
















A real major problem that will most probably affect a lot of new lathes, the spiral spring lead screw cover






If you have one of these fitted, just try a little experiment. Fit your faceplate, and move the saddle until the spring cover is fully collapsed at the left hand side, then measure just how far away your toolpost is from the faceplate. You should at least be able to get a correctly mounted tool to touch the plate. Here was mine with the topslide fully forwards. As can be seen, the nearest I can get is about 1.5" away. OK if using a boring bar, but no use with any other mounted tools.
Beginners would most probably never notice things like this until they had had the lathe for a while, when they start to experiment with faceplate work.






What happened?

I threatened with legal action if things on a newly supplied machine were to the same standards as this one.

A couple of weeks later I was invited to the factory where they showed me the mods on a new machine they had done to my specifications, I was then happy.

A couple of days later, the old machine was taken away by the supplier and the new machine was uncrated and fitted in it's place, all fully adjusted to perfection plus a few extras as a sweetener, such as a spare 3 jaw and some very nice tooling as well, and a promise that if anything went wrong, within reason, they would sort things out straight away. Well out of guarantee, one of the start caps started to play up. Early next morning I had a brand new complete motor delivered by courier, FOC, and I was told to keep the old one. I haven't repaired it yet as I have a 3phase and inverter to be fitted, so it will most probably never get done. Anyone need a motor that just needs a start cap?

So if you do find ANYTHING major, complain and threaten 'fit for purpose', miracles start to happen.

John


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## joco-nz

goldstar31 said:


> I buy 5 litres at a time------and have done for more years than I care to recall.
> 
> I did economics, cost accountancy and a lot of things that are recorded on worthless certificates lost in drawers somewhere.
> Out of it all is the fact that Wizard 69 makes clear is that the mark up on small quantities is colossal.
> 
> Perhaps Penny wise, pound foolish should be the thought for the day.
> 
> ??????????
> 
> Norman



Once I get a handle on how much/fast I am going to burn through this oil I can then decide if getting some offical ways oil stacks up. At the moment I'll experiment with the oil I have as used by a number of local lads.

I understand the economic side of things. I have similar certs lost in forgotten draws.

Cheers,
James.


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## joco-nz

John - good advice and I'm doing the checks.  Nothing material at this point - touch wood.


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## Blogwitch

James,

Almost any agricultural supplier should have many gallons of 32 grade hydraulic in stock, farmers seem to drink the stuff as the hydraulics on their machines seem to leak all over the place (lack of maintenance) and as we all know, farmers are usually rather tight with their wads, so it will be cheaper than buying elsewhere.

I got my last 25ltrs of hydraulic fluid from North Western Farmers in the UK, but I would suggest you go to one a little closer to home.

Unless you are refilling any gearboxes every month and pouring the stuff over the lathe from a jug, 5ltrs should last a couple of years, and the same for 68 grade slideway oil as well.

BTW, while you are giving your machine a good going over, try to fit a small magnet into any drain plugs, it will give you a good idea of what is happening over time. My first couple of drains and refills ( with mag plugs) were full of tiny slivers of metal, but after a little time, nothing, and the gearbox has quietened down considerably as there are no loose bits still flying around. When I took the top off my head-stock with gearbox, the gears were like polished chrome on their surfaces.
If you don't fit any pick up devices, then all those slivers that the magnet should have picked up will be sitting at the bottom of the box to get circulated around with the new oil.

Another BTW.
If you look closely at this picture you can see the large industrial chuck guard that they fitted to my lathe, plus they also removed completely the spring leadscrew guard. 
This then allowed me complete freedom to move around close to the headstock and also allowed me to have the 12" swing cut that they stated in the brochure, before fitting the larger guard, I could only get about 10".







John


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## Wizard69

goldstar31 said:


> I buy 5 litres at a time------and have done for more years than I care to recall.
> 
> I did economics, cost accountancy and a lot of things that are recorded on worthless certificates lost in drawers somewhere.
> Out of it all is the fact that Wizard 69 makes clear is that the mark up on small quantities is colossal.


It is the way people make money off the cheap.    Now I will admit good bottles for decanting aren't cheap, often costing more than the goods in the bottle, still the markup for small quantities is huge.   

The most common example if this is running down to the local big box hardware store to get some screws or bolts.   You can easily pay as much money for 5 that 25 or 50 would cost you through other sources.  


> Perhaps Penny wise, pound foolish should be the thought for the day.
> 
> ??????????
> 
> Norman


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## goldstar31

I'm presently involved with a mark up of 20 TIMES. Certainly it shows just how much one can develop an idea. At one time, I paid for my school fees by selling spinach in the war and to keep it fresh for market, it was necessary to water it----------

And of course once qualified, another of the text books- well mine- gave instructions about documents certified with a bit of judicious carving of a potato-- with a stamp pad- obviously.:thumbup:

There are more than one wizard! LOL.  As my son so scurrilously put it 'Dad, you've been retired longer than you have ever worked.'


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## Wizard69

goldstar31 said:


> I'm presently involved with a mark up of 20 TIMES. Certainly it shows just how much one can develop an idea. At one time, I paid for my school fees by selling spinach in the war and to keep it fresh for market, it was necessary to water it----------
> 
> And of course once qualified, another of the text books- well mine- gave instructions about documents certified with a bit of judicious carving of a potato-- with a stamp pad- obviously.:thumbup:
> 
> There are more than one wizard! LOL.  As my son so scurrilously put it 'Dad, you've been retired longer than you have ever worked.'




A lot of people that have never ran a business complain about the mark up sometimes seen in stores but what they don't realize is that a lot of business fail every month due to the lack of cash flow.   The same thing can be said about machine tool parts and tooling, the mark up may seem to be excessive when two dollars worth of steel and 5 minutes of CNC time ends up costing the buyer $75.   But running a business and more importantly staying in business requires balancing a lot of expenses a big one being the tax man.  

As for working I'm just hoping I make it to retirement age and can actually enjoy some shop time and maybe a little travel time.  Looking back on my youth I wish I had listened to people and went to college for a degree.   As it was, university right out of high school wasn't in the cards and the lure of a weekly paycheck was overwhelming when money was so scarce.


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## XD351

joco-nz said:


> Got things mostly reassembled back onto the lathe other than the top slide. Everything oiled up and sliding nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 84307
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the ways oil front we have a decision to step forward with.  It's based on a mix of pragmatisim, chatting/listening to local advice and finally flicking my Kiwi "number 8 wire" switch.  We are running with Chain/Bar Oil.  It's designed to deal with dirty environments and lubricate a component that is not hot (like an engine). Its "sticky" so it won't slide off the ways.  From what I can tell it also doesn't have detergent in it. The stuff I have is blue, I mean not just blue its FECKING BLUE!!




Reminds me of the shell helix ultra motor oil !
I believe bar oil is just a base oil with an anti slinging ( tacking ) additive and maybe an anti corrosive agent as tree sap usually makes things rust.
I would love to hear from a chemical engineer with extensive knowledge of lubricants ( not some armchair wanna be ) to explain why way oil is supposedly superior to  bar oil .
I want to know what  is in each of them and what it does  - not some marketing hype which is something that the petrochemical industry is infamous for !
Engine oils and fuel that " cleans as you drive " - bulls**t!
There is a seller on ebay that is flogging vactra oil in i think 500ml for a price that makes me cry , even royal purple race oil isn't that expensive !
Every retailer i found here in Australia would only sell 20lt or more so so the hunt was on for something better than motor oil and i came across someone on a forum somewhere that was using chain bar oil so i gave it a try - never went back engine oil and gave up on way oil altogether  .


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## joco-nz

Its blue I tell you BLUE!

*beer*


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## Blogwitch

http://mytools.co.nz/collections/fluids-lubrication-oils/products/cimglide-68-slideway-oil-5-litre

About the same price we pay here in the UK


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## joco-nz

Blogwitch said:


> http://mytools.co.nz/collections/fluids-lubrication-oils/products/cimglide-68-slideway-oil-5-litre
> 
> About the same price we pay here in the UK



yup - thats the stuff I found.  And litre for litre very close to the price of the chain/bar oil.  Its what I'll look at for the next oil purchase once what I have has been used up.  Which since I only have a litre probably wont take that long.

But its not BLUE.


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## joco-nz

While I still have to dismantle the main lead screw gear box to check if the oil ports are working (one has a suspicion of being blocked) I decided to "unclean" things for a little bit.

A donated "surplus to requirements" cutter which by some miracle was bang on centre in my stock tool post and the procurement of a sodding big M20 x 280mm long bolt saw my first ever cuts of metal on a lathe of any kind, ever.  :hDe:

I don't have any fancy lubricants so some 20W oil mixed with a little white spirits to thin it up in an old plastic ice-cream container and chip brush to apply it set me up with lubricant for cutting that I hoped would do the business.

So to start with a simple facing and a small brush of lubrication. Set the cut up for about 0.2 to 0.3mm at ~320 rpm and hit the power cross feed.  Victory!  First ever cut done successfully (see pic).  I then went on to play a little with depth and also feeding by hand.



Next was some experiments with the longitudinal power feed trying 320 and 600 rpm and variations in depth.  Also some by hand to get a feel for that.  Then it was taking my trusty digital callipers and seeing how accurate I could be Testing for 12mm, 10mm and 9mm diameter targets. After some consideration and a few trials I managed to get myself consistently to within 0.01 to 0.03mm on the reading against target.  Now if I had a micrometer it would probably show I'm not that good.  But even if I was actually out +/- 0.05-0.08 on my first crack at this, I'm happy. :thumbup: 
Mind you I can see why people get DRO's.  The dials are bit on the fiddly side, especially since I seem to have quite a bit of backlash in the cross slide that I need to figure out how to solve.  I think there is some form of adjustment in the the brass nut. I just need to pull it all apart again to investigate.
The power feed is very cool but a bit scary.  I had been warned about how easy it was to over flick the lever and I still managed to do it with much resulting cursing. Putting some stop pins or a much tougher indent is going to be a mod I'll look into pretty seriously. 
Looking at all that crap building up on the ways, has anyone come up with a felt wiper mod for this lathe?



So after all that I got out the vacuum cleaner and started sucking up nasty metal bits, cleaned all the surfaces down, cleaned off the ways and re oiled.  Such a cool machine.  

Cheers,
James.


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## bruedney

Hi James

th_wav th_wav

Your lathe is dirty

Personally I think 600rpm is way too slow for 20mm with a brazed carbide tool. I would be using 900 at least on my little lathe.

Cheers
Bruce


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## joco-nz

bruedney said:


> Hi James
> 
> th_wav th_wav
> 
> Your lathe is dirty
> 
> Personally I think 600rpm is way too slow for 20mm with a brazed carbide tool. I would be using 900 at least on my little lathe.
> 
> Cheers
> Bruce



Heh it worked.  BUT I'm a noob so was taking it slow and using power feed meant the faster the lathe spun the faster things moved and I was nervous enough as it was.

As it is I managed to crash the bit  :wall: :fan: stalled lathe - slammed the emergency stop.    And the sodding carbide cracked and eventually chipped away.   Lets just say the language that ensured would have made hardened sailors blush.  I was NOT happy.   On the flip slide I learned some valuable lessons on how to operate this thing.

J.


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## Niels Abildgaard

joco-nz said:


> I don't have any fancy lubricants so some 20W oil mixed with a little white spirits to thin it up in an old plastic ice-cream container and chip brush to apply it set me up with lubricant for cutting that I hoped would do the business.
> 
> 
> 
> Next was some experiments with the longitudinal power feed trying 320 and 600 rpm and variations in depth.  Also some by hand to get a feel for that.  Then it was taking my trusty digital callipers and seeing how accurate I could be Testing for 12mm, 10mm and 9mm diameter targets. After some consideration and a few trials I managed to get myself consistently to within 0.01 to 0.03mm on the reading against target.  Now if I had a micrometer it would probably show I'm not that good.  But even if I was actually out +/- 0.05-0.08 on my first crack at this, I'm happy. :thumbup:
> 
> The power feed is very cool but a bit scary.  I had been warned about how easy it was to over flick the lever and I still managed to do it with much resulting cursing. Putting some stop pins or a much tougher indent is going to be a mod I'll look into pretty seriously.
> Looking at all that crap building up on the ways, has anyone come up with a felt wiper mod for this lathe?
> View attachment 84406
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> James.



Hello James

As an old man that has survived lathes I must warn You.
Cutting that long thin thing without tailstock support with Your expirience on a new lathe is bordering on being dangerous, and You do not benefit much from lubricating when using carbide


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## goldstar31

Valuable lessons learned- fortunately without anything worse than pride!
As you a noobie, you should be using the lathe slowly and using hss or even  carbon steel tools. You should have had either tailstock support or a fixed steady and even then the chances of cracking brittle carbides will still be high.

I recall suggesting how to tackle hss grinding earlier and again, remind you that almost everyone has to use hss or carbon steel in using twist drills. 

No comfort forthcoming  but to get a chipped brazed tungsten carbide  bit 're-furbished' is adding yet another difficulty to an already full schedule of learning.

Well then?

Norman


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## joco-nz

Yup - that was why I was doing this slowly and doing very light cuts.   The length protruding looks bigger than it is in the photo. But I'm getting my gear in place which includes a jacobs chuck, to allow setting up tail stock support. Plus getting cutting tooling in place.

All about the learning and I'm enjoying it.

Cheers,
J.


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## rodw

If you have an android phone, download FSwizard and use it to calculate cutting speeds for the material you are machining. The free one will do what you need. I had another one that was easier to use but I could not find it again after I upgraded phones. FSwizard might be on Apple as well.

Expect some crashes while you are learning and stand away from the chuck.

H&F have a book called Fitting and Machining that was written in the Aussie TAFE system. If its available there, might be worth grabbing it. 639 A4 pages.


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## goldstar31

joco-nz said:


> Yup - that was why I was doing this slowly and doing very light cuts. The length protruding looks bigger than it is in the photo. But I'm getting my gear in place which includes a jacobs chuck, to allow setting up tail stock support. Plus getting cutting tooling in place.
> 
> All about the learning and I'm enjoying it.
> 
> Cheers,
> J.


 
Yes, Yes--somewhat wearily!

But the odds are that your drill chuck will not be terribly accurate and you should have the minimum of a full hard centre and ideally another half centre as well as a somewhat inaccurate rotating centre.

Hint, once you get into full swing, life becomes even more expensive:wall:

Norman


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## joco-nz

goldstar31 said:


> Yes, Yes--somewhat wearily!
> 
> But the odds are that your drill chuck will not be terribly accurate and you should have the minimum of a full hard centre and ideally another half centre as well as a somewhat inaccurate rotating centre.
> 
> Hint, once you get into full swing, life becomes even more expensive:wall:
> 
> Norman



Yup - so I am finding.  But that's ok, I set the budget aside to get the tooling, I'm just trying to maximise it.

Have the steadies, have the hard centre, don't have a half centre yet.  Drill chuck is to make the spot holes to use the hard centre.

We'll get there.  :thumbup:


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## bazmak

One thing you do need as a learner is a revolving centre
About $35 but you will then need the Jacobs chuck and some 
centre drills.What extras did you get with the lathe ?
You should have got the Jacobs and a dead centre at least


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## joco-nz

Key items I got with the lathe are:

160mm 3-jaw chuck with reverse jaws
200mm 4-jaw chuck
Face plate
Fixed steady
Travelling steady
Change gears
Dead centres 3MT and 5MT
Spanners and Allen keys
Oil can


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## bruedney

:toilet:

Bring the carbide back to me and we might be able to resurrect it on my Green wheel


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## Blogwitch

If you can J, contact the supplier and see if he can obtain you a set of soft jaws for the 3 jaw.
It is the cheapest method of getting high precision with your lathe, and if care is taken should last for many years.

Rather than centre drills, which have a tendency to snap the tip off, get a couple of spot drills. You can use centre drills for putting centres in for say tailstock support, but they were never designed for what people normally do with them, putting in a centre so that you can follow down with a larger drill. Spot drills do a much better job, and seem to last forever.

John


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## bazmak

I assume the tailstock is 2MT.If you didn't get a chuck for the 
tailstock then don't bother with Jacobs get  keyless 16mm
Will save you money in the long run.You may get a Jacobs with the mill


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## joco-nz

bruedney said:


> :toilet:
> 
> Bring the carbide back to me and we might be able to resurrect it on my Green wheel



Thanks, we can give it a crack.  It looks pretty munted but that doesn't mean its beyond hope.


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## joco-nz

bazmak said:


> I assume the tailstock is 2MT.If you didn't get a chuck for the
> tailstock then don't bother with Jacobs get  keyless 16mm
> Will save you money in the long run.You may get a Jacobs with the mill



Tail stock is 3MT.   Jacobs chuck is already ordered along with required shank. Only cost about $45 all up.


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## Hopper

Quick way to calculate your RPM for steel is the formula: 400 divided by the diameter in inches. 
So for 1" diameter, the rpm is 400. For 1/2" bar, the rpm is 800. For 2" bar, the rpm is 200. And so on. 
For aluminium or brass, double the rpm. For cast iron, stainless or high tensile steel, halve it.


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## joco-nz

Hopper said:


> Quick way to calculate your RPM for steel is the formula: 400 divided by the diameter in inches.
> So for 1" diameter, the rpm is 400. For 1/2" bar, the rpm is 800. For 2" bar, the rpm is 200. And so on.
> For aluminium or brass, double the rpm. For cast iron, stainless or high tensile steel, halve it.



Cool. I had 0.787" of mild steel, that's about 508 rpm per this rule and the closest speed on my gear box is 600 which is what I was using.

Good rule to know.

Cheers,
J.


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## Herbiev

Great advice. Thanks for sharing.


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## joco-nz

So turning the rule of thumb into table we get:




I'm guessing there are probably some practical limits but this gives a good feel as to the relationship between metric sizes and RPM.


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## goldstar31

I'm not so sure!  I know little about carbides as opposed to hss and have forgotten my incursions into carbon steel tools.

As far as I am aware, carbides CAN run at THREE times these suggested speeds- assuming that the lathe doesn't blow up or has sufficient power and rigidity.

I'm aware of sweeping statements and I cannot be alone in having a Pandora's Box which is simply gathering such things as Stellite, Black alloys and a plethora of exotica like Wimet,Ardoloy  and stuff which will still cut although red hot.

OK, I CAN tackle most with diamond but then I have yet to enter the World of CBN abrasives.

Let's say, the jury is out

Norman


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## rodw

Hopper said:


> Quick way to calculate your RPM for steel is the formula: 400 divided by the diameter in inches.
> So for 1" diameter, the rpm is 400. For 1/2" bar, the rpm is 800. For 2" bar, the rpm is 200. And so on.
> For aluminium or brass, double the rpm. For cast iron, stainless or high tensile steel, halve it.



The metric equivalent for those that live in countries other than the 2 that still work in imperial units is:

rpm = (320 x S)/D
where:
S = cutting speed in metres per minute
D = diameter in mm

Carbide inserts often have recommended cutting speed on the packet if you look hard enough.


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## joco-nz

Thanks for the info on cutting speeds.   I also was shown this page recently at a model engineering meeting: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Reference/CuttingSpeeds.php

Quite a good resource I thought.


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## Alchymist

Probably not available down under, but I use Mobil oils for my South Bend. Here in the states I can buy it in 6 oz. bottles from several vendors.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMIP&PMPXNO=945071&PMAKA=505-2002

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=945479&PMAKA=505-1987


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## radar

Joco, really nice lathe you have there! Good job! 

If I am not mistaken it looks like it was made by a Chinese company called Weiss? I believe. If I am not mistaken that is one of the better machine companies in mainland China. 

I haven't had bad luck yet with Chinese stuff- all of my precision stuff came from the fine folks at Shars and it has worked well for hobby work thus far.


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## coulsea

England seem to be very keen on using the correct way oil, probably through years of marketing by the suppliers. I did a lot of reading through the forums and came to the conclusion that it is just 68 weight hydraulic oil.
Get it from supercheap when it is 50% off, 5 litres will last years.


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## Blogwitch

Coulsea,

I think you will find that we have been in this game for a lot longer than everyone else, so we tend to use the correct oils because we have had more experience than everyone else. I for one am not duped by marketing claims as you suggest, in fact, it is only specialist machine suppliers like the now defunct Myford who claim that you should only use their brand of oils, which turn out to be just like all the other ones except for a massive price hike. I have been working with machinery for fifty years and know exactly what is required of a machine lubricant.
68 grade way oils aren't just normal hydraulic fluid, the correct ones have additives in it to make sure it stays at the correct consistency to prevent metal to metal contact.
It is just like what we call silver solder, we know exactly what it is and how to use it, it seems the rest of the world needs to catch up a little, you only have to look at what is available in the US, no wonder they get confused when we mention it.

But anyway, you just carry on using what you have found, and we will carry on using the stuff we are used to.

John


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## platypus20

too bad were so far apart, I got 30-35 gallons of Mobil Vactra 2 wayoil in shop storage, I'd be more than glad to give you some.


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