# Astro Skeleton clock.



## Buchanan (Mar 13, 2017)

I thought I might post a link to a website showing the build of an astronomical clock for a client. I send him regular photos and then he compiles a monthly report, so if it is acceptable I will post the link every time his website is updated.  It is not an engine but has cams, chains, gears,  castings and also timing and running issues! It starts here: http://www.my-time-machines.net/my_current_project3.htm and  the construction index is here:http://www.my-time-machines.net /astro_http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_10-16.htm  the last post is here:

The construction spans more than 10 years and there are a few more to go. Unfortunately this is not a hobby but a commercial exercise with the constraints that go along with a contract.
I hope you enjoy it.


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## kiwi2 (Mar 14, 2017)

Flipping heck. I'm struggling to finish John Wildings weight driven wall clock.
The amount of skill and work involved in your device is really mind blowing.
Alan C.


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## blighty (Mar 14, 2017)

i clicked on the link, now that's my work day gone:thumbup: 

first think that caught my i was the 1200lb of brass and bronze to start of with.


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## Shelton (Mar 14, 2017)

Astonishing.  Do post about it.   I'll love watching to see it emerge from nothing.   You must be an artist and a craftsman.


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## Buchanan (Apr 5, 2017)

Here is progress made in January.  The website belongs to my client. He updates it monthly from progress photos and emails that I send him. :http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_01-17.htm

This section described is for the Sun Moon dial. From the dial you can read the following information .  Length of day, Length of night. Position of the moon in the sky. Time to moon rise, Time to moon set. Time of sun rise , Time of sun set ,24 hour time, phase of the moon and a few other things.  There are mechanical corrections for the inclination of the earth and the eccentricity of the moons orbit . 
The photo shews the main mechanical correction portion. It uses the principal of the unequal speed of rotation of a universal joint, twice. The greater the angle of the gear the greater  degrees of advance and retard occur per revolution. This type of mechanism is used on the great clock in the Prague cathedral. 

Buchanan


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## Blogwitch (Apr 5, 2017)

This post really shows that us mere mortals are only playing at engineering.

I keep saying that I most probably, after 50 years at this game, only know about 1% of what there is to know. Looking at the quality and ingenuity of this clock, I think I could divide that figure by 10.

Words can't describe it.

John


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## Buchanan (Apr 5, 2017)

John , thank you,  and to every body else  that has posted compliments, thank you. I am afraid that I am also a mere mortal. What is required  is a client  or a patron  to dream of a project like this and then find , stimulate and  finance somebody to make it .  Finally, break it down into component parts and it is only gears frames and screws,( rather many though). 

Buchanan


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## Buchanan (Apr 5, 2017)

Here is a link to a webpage that gives  a good overview of the clock . 
http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_10-16.htm There is a video at the top of the page that shows most of the interesting bits.
Buchanan


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## bazmak (Apr 5, 2017)

But does it tell the time
Tongue in cheek.Its beyond belief
Words fail me


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## Blogwitch (Apr 5, 2017)

B,

It was wonderful going back to the very beginning in the above link to see how everything started, and following along as it developed and I am surprised at how much of it was made by hand rather than CNC. I do realise that some multiple items need to be made by CNC, as it would only be half way there without it.

How long before it is actually finished, or is it a project that will continue to be added to and go on almost forever? 
When eventually it is finished will it ever be able to be moved to another location or will that just be too much to ask of it?

John


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## Buchanan (Apr 5, 2017)

I was introduced to cnc way into the project. It has its place but one requirement when I use it is that there will be no sign of cnc machining. All internal corners will be square. No cutter radius.  It is in Australia but my client is in Chicago. It may go via England but completion is  2 to 3 years away. There is a planisphere and an orrery to come, then the case and then the final polish! A life with out it will be  a little strange.
Buchanan


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## Buchanan (May 15, 2017)

This the the link to the progress made in February: http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_02-17.htm I am making some progress with the moon dial. 
The photos will give you some idea of where I am at the moment but the website is much more detailed. You will also see this installment some of the machining sequences that may have a little more relevance  to this site than the actual project.  I will gladly answer any questions about why I do a thing in a specific way.  Clock making is somewhat different to normal engineering as we would often have a comparatively flexible structure compared to an engine. The operating speeds are of course much slower, the forces are much less and and the power available is often very limited. We are also looking at a mechanism that must operate for 24 hours a day, year after year, with a maintenance interval of about ten years. In this clock I am aiming for more like fifty years, before a major overhaul  is necessary.  One photo might be of interest: The picture with the tube of glue. Here I need to drill a hole accurately in a long thin component, so, I have made a 'steady' out of a block of steel and attached it to the vice jaws and the end of the component with super glue. There was no clamping force to deflect the part as the glue wicked into the joint face and was sufficient to allow me to center drill and then drill with out breaking loose. This frame was first CNC milled and then machined as though it was a connecting rod with an extra large oil slinger.


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## mayhugh1 (May 15, 2017)

I can't imagine giving it away after everything you must have put into it. It would almost be like sending a kid away to live with someone else. - Terry


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## kvom (May 15, 2017)

What I can't imagine is the guy in 50 years who needs to do an "overhaul".  But since Harrison's clocks in Greenwich are still working after more than 200 years it's not beyond the realm of possibility.


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## Buchanan (May 15, 2017)

Kvom. we have based the design on as many of Harrison's principals as possible while remaining inside the design brief. lubrication is the prime problem when you come to long maintenance intervals.  

Mayhugh, I think i know what you mean, but, that wont be for a few more years, and, I am not giving it away, so that also helps. I am hoping that there will be an element of relief when it is done as it has consumed a fair portion of my life.


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## Buchanan (Jun 16, 2017)

This is the next installment of the construction on the clock: http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_03-17.htm It covers the construction of the thermometer. I do admire my client;s ability to take the progress photos I send him and turn them into a coherent article.  The Moon dial mechanism is progressing as well. I am at the point when I get rid of as much extra material as I can. We call it skelotonising.


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## Herbiev (Jun 17, 2017)

Wow. Magnificent craftsmanship there. Where do you source your brass plate from ?


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## Buchanan (Jun 18, 2017)

I bought the bulk in England from Smiths metals  in England but now buy from Brass And Copper in Sydney. i mainly use CZ120 leaded engravers brass. Most of the steel parts are stainless. Stavex, a heat treatable stainless for the pinions and 316 for the rest.


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## kvom (Jun 20, 2017)

What's the technique for cutting these out?


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## kadora (Jun 21, 2017)

From my childhood i am amazed with clocks and watches but your astro clock 
is breathtaking work.


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## MarinusK (Jun 21, 2017)

That is one marvelous work of art! I can't even imagine how much work has been put into all those parts.

Marinus


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## kvom (Jun 22, 2017)

I was also wondering why some gear pairs are steel-brass and others are brass-brass.


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## Buchanan (Jun 23, 2017)

This is the latest update on my clients website: http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_04-17.htm 

 Kvom: I cut out the plates on a scroll saw. Good marking out, a fine scribe line, is a must. A low power binocular microscope helps. I use the same saw for removing the metal between the spokes on the gears.  When I have a relatively fast moving small gear (pinion) driving a large gear  then I make the small gear steel.  if the two gears are nearly the same size  and the load is light or the speed is slow( 1 revolution a day)then brass to brass is used. So far the slowest rotating part I have in the clock is  one revolution in 10 000 years.
Any questions are welcome.

Thank you for the compliments.


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## kadora (Jun 24, 2017)

How do you polish finished brass parts ?
How do you treat brass surface after polishing ?
How many bearings have to be oiled on mechanism ?
You should etch your name on each single part of astro clock.


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## RonGinger (Jun 24, 2017)

How do you scribe the layout of such a complex part? It seems unlikely you can do it freehand, but complete geometric construction of all those small arcs would take years.


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## kvom (Jun 24, 2017)

Acceptance test on 10K year part must be tricky.


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## Herbiev (Jun 24, 2017)

10,000 years. Your clock will outlast the planet.


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## kiwi2 (Jun 25, 2017)

Hi,
    You want to be careful the clock isn't deemed to be a national treasure and you are forbidden to export it when you are finished!


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## Buchanan (Jun 26, 2017)

Kadora: How do you polish finished brass parts ? 

 I usually work through the grades of wet/dry sandpaper. Starting at 600 grit  or sometimes with 250 grit if there are really deep scratches  then 1000, 2500, and 5000 and then brasso. 

How do you treat brass surface after polishing ?

My first choice is Gold plating but sometime lacquers and sometimes the part is left bare. On this clock all bright steel parts are stainless steel  and all screws are heat blued. 

How many bearings have to be oiled on mechanism ?

 The barest minimum.just the fly fan bearings at the moment. Dry lube is used on sleeves and ceramic hybrid ball bearings where ever  the load is large or fast.

You should etch your name on each single part of astro clock. :

I have a 'secret'Buchanan punch I made and use is random places.It is 6mm long and 2 mm high.

Ron.  I have the design drawn on paper . I glue it onto the plate with contact glue, wet, and slide the paper until the design is aligned with the bearings. 
then i scribe or carve along the lines with a small blade . This is not very accurate but scroll work it is good enough. All bosses around bearings are filled to filling buttons,so there is precision with no skill. when i have finished sawing out the design I file the shape until I am happy with it. You can see the knife  and the paper on the brass sheet in post 16 , second last photo.

Kvon. Neither my client or myself are too worried what happens after the next fifty years!

I will post a photo of my'secret' punch tomorrow.


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## Buchanan (Jun 26, 2017)

Here are two photos of the punch and the result.


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## kadora (Jun 27, 2017)

Buchanan thank you for your answer.
Each your post rise new questions how do you do this or that.
Did you engrave your personal little punch by hand or
it was done by electric spark erosion machine ?


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## bazmak (Jun 27, 2017)

Brilliant thread and the workmanship is unbelievable
My question,where did the design originate and how many add on designs
for each separate action and how was it all tied together.Is the full clock
designed ,drawn and being built from square 1.Are you the builder and the designer,part designer.A short tale of how all this originated etc would be very welcome  Regards barry


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## Buchanan (Jun 27, 2017)

Bazmak 

I was approached by Mark Frank to build a dream clock.  He had a comprehensive wish list. Mr. Frank is a very knowledgeable clock collector so his wish list was just as comprehensive.  He sent me pictures and rough sketches of what he wanted. Then there was a period of exchanging ideas until I had a fair idea of what he wanted. i then drew a multilayered drawing  of the clock. This contained most of the features in the final clock. He then asked me to produce a mock up of the clock to gauge the size and overall design.once this was complete I began to build the clock. So, yes, I designed the overall clock to a specification and then have designed  and built each part. It is made of subsections or modules for ease of assembly and maintenance. I make all the parts except the dials(enamel). from the screws up. This document gives the initial design layout and also photos of the mock up. http://www.my-time-machines.net/Astro_presentation_paper_final_web.pdf so you can see the clock is a complete unit. Most individual parts are only rough sketched. but major assemblies are drawn in cross section. I have a good selection of scrap parts and spares as I often make more  parts than required if there are duplicates. I am a self taught toolmaker by trade, most of my early working career was building up an injection molding factory in South Africa. 
Serious clock making started when I moved to England.  See www.buchananclocks.com. Then I moved to Australia, a little more like where I grew up. I have been building this clock since then while helping my sons to build up another plastic injection molding factory.


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## kvom (Jun 27, 2017)

A thought occurred to me:  how do you set/reset the various systems if the clock is running a bit slow or fast?  Can you move the minute hand like a more simple clock, or the escapement, and thus adjust everything at one time?


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## Buchanan (Jun 27, 2017)

Kvom.
 All the complications are linked through one gear train. Also each separate dial or hand is on a clutch.So , you can set every thing up once, then say, if the clock stops for a week, you disconnect the complications and crank them forward 7 days and every thing is correct again. The calendar keeps track of the days, so you just keep going until the date is correct and then until the time on the 24 hour dial is correct.  There is a crank for this, and it  has three ratios: one turn per day. 1 turn  in 6 hours and one turn for two hours   This was a very definite requirement from my client: easy setting and adjustment, a good question!


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## Buchanan (Aug 3, 2017)

Here are two more months of progress. 
http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_04-17.htm
http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_05-17.htm


Working on engine turning(CNC) for the center dial. This is not complete yet. there is more to come.


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## kvom (Aug 3, 2017)

I saw these updates earlier as I have been following along.  Do I understand the Janvier mechanism correctly?  The gear is rotated around the slanted axis by the small pinion while the horizontal shaft also rotates.  Both these rotations are at constant speeds.  The combination of the two motions drives the follower in the curved slot to that the shaft attached to the slot moves at a constantly varying speed.

It's difficult to tell if the two motions are in the same direction or not, looking at the video.


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## Buchanan (Aug 3, 2017)

Kvom 

The resulting action is exactly the same as a normal universal joint. The output accelerates then decelerated twice per revolution in relation to the input shaft. 

The feed to the slant wheel adds a little to the overall speed but that is included in the calculations. What we have is, there are two factors that speed up or slow down the moon, in relation to its mean  or average speed. the largest is the suns gravity which accelerates the moon    when it is traveling towards the sun and decelerates it when it is traveling away from the sun.  This amounts to 6 degrees of error each way.  The tilt of the earth on its  axis introduces another 2 and a half degrees  error in the time of sunrise and set. The two slant wheels generate these oscillating errors. The greater the slant  the greater the error. The speed at which each slant wheel rotates is half the period of the error. It is a little difficult to explain and more difficult to design and even more difficult to make.


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## SilverSanJuan (Aug 4, 2017)

I am in awe of this project.  Your craftsmanship, engineering and artistry are astounding!  Thanks for sharing your talents with us. :thumbup:


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## Buchanan (Aug 5, 2017)

Thanks for the compliments. But I post here to give back, not for the compliments, because learn here all the time.


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## kvom (Aug 5, 2017)

With so many gears of different sizes, do you have to make your own cutters?  How important is tooth form with really small gears?


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## Buchanan (Sep 4, 2017)

Kvom : I have a large set I bought and have added to from to time to time. All from Thorntons in England. I have made my own single tooth fly cutters over the years but if you want a beautiful smooth transmission  then I cannot beat a bought cutter. In clock making , smooth torque is some times more important than constant angular velocity. This applies to  the oscillator drive train as well as to the strike and chime train as variations in torque can cause variations in strike speed which can be noticeable to the ear. 
Buchanan


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## Buchanan (Sep 5, 2017)

There  is a new instalment on the clock at my clients website.: http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_06-17.htm

 Here is something that might be of interest. 

I CNC milled a pretty brass Sun face for the dial that I am working on. I needed to fix it to a steel arm to make it into a clock hand.  Now the Sun is a little over 1mm thick. I dont like solder or glue so riveting or screws was the way to go.  Riveting is to permanent, I may want to gold plate the sun but not the steel arm. Now the question was, where do I put the screw? One screw behind the nose where  the sun is the thickest wont stop the Sun spinning around. I needed locating pins or two screws. The Sun is all brass and I thought it might look better with a little colour. Blue eyes would be good. 

So I drilled his eyes out and tapped the eye sockets 0.5 mm by 0.125 mm pitch and made two screws  countersunk  0.8 mm diameter in the steel section. The tips of the screw are long enough to form a new eye. When they are heat blued we have  a blue eyed Sun that is  securely held to the steel arm.   You might notice the little jig that I use to slot the screw head.  It consists of a collet with  two hard  pins each side. I piercing saw is used to cut the slot, the blade is  placed diagonally between the two hardened pins and the swung around to keep the blade against the pins. This holds the blade central over the screw head while the slot is cut. It was given to me by Mr. Drabsch from Canberra who invented it.

If any body can make good brass flames to go around the sun I would be very glad to know how to do it. 
Buchanan


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## kvom (Sep 5, 2017)

I read through the updates and again can't say enough about how cool this is.  Could you say that the end is in sight?


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## Buchanan (Sep 5, 2017)

Kvom I think I could say that there is a light at the end of the tunnel....

I have two more major assemblies to make. A Planisphere, which is quite simple. It shows the stars and also the sun's position in the sky, and an Orrery.
This has all the planets up to Saturn  with moons  for the Earth, Jupiter and Saturn as well as a few of the elliptical orbits and Saturn"s  tilt, which will be a complex mechanism. I have a basic gear count and layout for the Orrery that I will copy and tweak to suit our clock but that is about 5% of the work saved.

The there are the dials, hands, bezels weights and case. Then I have to polish everything. Another year should get most of the construction complete.

Buchanan


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## Buchanan (Oct 9, 2017)

We have another month's progress here: http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_07-17.htm 

I have been filing cams for the sunrise and sunset shutters and hands. A slow and painful process.


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## kvom (Oct 10, 2017)

I was wondering about the tool used with your EDM machine.  Looks to be copper.  I had been under the impression that these were graphite.

As always, your work is awe inspiring.


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## Sansspaceship (Oct 10, 2017)

Amazing work, to have a mind that can visualise and build that detail is incredible!

I think even one of those modules would turn my brain inside out, if I even started to try and think how you would design it in any detail. Add the art of the design on top and you have an incredible time piece!

I have a dear friend of mine who did a complete restore on a WWII Corsair which was I think a 10 year build, and kudos needs to also be given to the patrons of these projects as the also have incredible vision as well. 

Thank you for sharing.


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## Buchanan (Oct 10, 2017)

Kvom. 

The electrode is copper, correct, you can use any conductible material as an electrode.    The four factors that make a good electrode are low electrical resistance, high melting point, good machining, and price. I know that jewelers will use silver as an electrode. Gold would be better but price may be a problem. Each type of electrode material has different wear rates and needs different types of electrical pulses to be effective. I have a larger EDM Machine that is specifically designed for  copper and it will not spark with graphite.  I have used tungsten Carbide  inserts to spark their own pocket for turning tools. They don't have good electrical properties but a stupidly high melting point. Machineability is also an issue with tungsten carbide!!


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## bazmak (Oct 10, 2017)

Many years ago i used to be a good dart player when copper/tungsten darts
became affordable.Later of course nickel and silver tungsten to replace brass
Mainly for the SG of tungsten to produce smaller heavier darts.As a sheetmetal
worker i used a resistance spot welding machine and was forever replacing or grinding the copper tips. I did try bracing a small piece of a 6mm dia copper
tungsten dart to the main tip.This elongated the life of the tip and maintained
a cross section area of spotweld. Tungsten alloy darts are now so cheap and readily available. Would these matls properties of weight and high melting point
be of any use ? and easy to machine


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## Buchanan (Oct 10, 2017)

Yes,  I have used Berrilium copper(Dangerous in dust form)  and Tungsten copper. The best electrode material  I have used is  ,to my knowledge Tellurium Copper. It is the best material for copper based electrodes.:  Quote:         Tellurium Copper's (TelCu) resistance to hydrogen embrittlement combined with its' high electrical and thermal conductivity make it the ideal choice for electrical applications requiring extensive machining, corrosion resistance, or for the production of hot forged products.
The cutting properties of copper are enhanced significantly by creating a copper alloy with the addition of .5% tellurium (C145 Tellurium) which is adapted for use in high-speed automatic screw machines. On a machinability rating scale with 100% equal to free-cutting brass, Copper 145 Tellurium has a machinability rating scale of 85-90%, compared to pure copper which has a machinability rating scale of approximately 20%. The results? Increased efficiency on manual and automatic production lines as well as a significantly longer tool life! 

It is a very nice material to machine compared to normal copper and does not cost much more. It is also available in larger sections. Graphite kicks in when you want large electrodes.


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## Buchanan (Oct 11, 2017)

This web page and the videos on it gives a very good overview of the clock. http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_10-16.htm


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## kadora (Oct 12, 2017)

Buchanan your clock looks like gearwheel heaven.
All wheels connected and unisono working //communicating?// together.
This masterpiece probably has its own consciousness.


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## Buchanan (Oct 29, 2017)

Here is another update. http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_08-17.htm


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## kvom (Nov 2, 2017)

I just got back from 3 weeks in Japan just in time for another update.  :thumbup:

One thing I learned from a museum exhibit was that the Japanese had their own type of clock that makes for an "interesting" complication.  They divided up a calendar day into two periods, day and night, and each was divided into 6 equal parts.  Since day and night periods vary daily, it seems quite tricky for a mechanical clock (Wadokei) to handle it.  But they did.


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## kadora (Nov 2, 2017)

BUCHANAN I am speechless again.
How did you paint arabic numbers on dial ? Is it enamel ?
How will you transport this mechanical computer to your customer?
How many kilograms will be the weight of completed  astro clock?
Are fully running astro clock noisy?
Sorry for my naive questions but I have never seen such complicated machine
in my life.


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## Buchanan (Nov 2, 2017)

The Arabic numbers are drawn by hand 2 or 3 times oversize and reduced on to paper as you see here. When we are happy we send it to an enamel dial maker and they are done in traditional fired enamel.  The construction is modular, so we can pack the small delicate parts separate , Transport and packing is a nightmare. The whole clock mechanism weighs about 60 KG but the weight and case will bring it to about 200 KG. To maintain so much movement for a week takes a lot of watts and that must come from somewhere. the clock is actually quieter than a grandfather clock because the escapement is a grasshopper and that does not tick loudly,when it strikes it makes a little more noise but not very loud as the clock is for a house. Questions are welcome and thanks for the compliments.
http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_05-13.htm  and the next few pages shows the enamel dials being made.


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## Buchanan (Nov 10, 2017)

Here is another update. http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_09-17.htm

This section of the clock is now almost complete.  The attached photos show how I made the Moon. The materials are Mammoth ivory and ebony. I am not sure how old the mammoth is, but the ebony comes from a round ruler used at school, for ruling lines on writing paper, over a hundred years ago in South Africa. Both should be reasonably stable. Now if we want a multi part object to remain intact for a few hundred years we cannot rely on glue alone, so, I held each section together with an internal brass ring. These sections are again held captive by the numbered rind and held together end wise by a screw. Both Mammoth and ebony are most delightful materials to work with and the color contrast is lovely. i enjoyed the bi colored swaff.  I believe a good engineering design has a few parts possible. I have failed miserably in this connection with this clock. This Sun Moon  mechanism has about 550 parts, including screws , bearings and taper pins.


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## bazmak (Nov 10, 2017)

UNBELIVEABLE  I have seen some awesome and beautiful engineering in
my long lifetime but nothing as awesome as this. THANK YOU FOR POSTING
Regards Barry apprentice in many trades but master of non. I would call you master


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## Rickl (Nov 11, 2017)

That is magnificent. What skills to do all that. Congratulations.


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## Buchanan (Nov 16, 2017)

Here is a link to another months work on the clock. This is what happened in October.  http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_10-17.htm

It is mostly about how I produced cams to give a  annual cycle of positions on the shutters that display the length of day and night. It would, no doubt, be possible to calculate the correct profile for the cams, but, then one must machine them to those dimensions, I do not have a CNC cam grinder ( there are some beauties on this site!) so I have to do it manually. It took about a week to make these two cams. I think if I went the calculation route, I would have taken  longer, as, I would need to learn how to do it first and then make a cam machining fixture to fit on my mill.  If there were any errors after that I would have to correct them with a file anyway!

 Sorry ,No new photos as I have not done much since the last post. 

Thanks for the compliments, they are really appreciated. 
Buchanan


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## Rickl (Nov 16, 2017)

I watched your video.  What a magnificent instrument. I am in awe of your skills. Simply beautiful. 

Rick
Sth. Australia


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## Buchanan (Dec 4, 2017)

I have started the final assembly of the moon dial .Most parts are finished to 1000 grit sandpaper and then given a quick rub with Brasso to brighten them up. The two plaques are just paper at the moment. They will be fired enamel with a brass frame finally.


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## Buchanan (Dec 8, 2017)

I needed some small stars for the day/night shutters. 

I had some &#8216;scrap&#8217; Stirling silver from a previous clock dial so decided to use it. A simple five sided star  toolpath was manually written in g code and a Dimond point milling cutter made and the machining trials started. By varying the angle of the cutter and the slope of the tool path an acceptable star was machined. Taking a leaf out of Terrys(Merlin) book, I machined away the back of the star until it was complete.  The stars are attached to the glass with shellac.


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## Buchanan (Dec 21, 2017)

The sun/moon dial is almost complete.  I am working on how to get fine black lettering on thin glass that is real permanent and not having much luck.  The best results so far are laser etching through a ceramic spray that should give a dense black print but not the best results so far. If any body knows how to print fine 2mm high numbers in black on glass I would love to hear about it.    The complete mechanism is mounted on the clock now and just waiting for the glass dial. The machining operation is when I needed a circular round groove in the back of the dial to provide clearance for the moon. Buchanan


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## Buchanan (Feb 27, 2018)

Here is the next update on the clock, http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro-01-18.htm I have ben tidying up a few details, Made new balance springs out of NiSpan C steel which has a zero coefficient of elasticity. 
Then started on the cosmetic design of the Planisphere as well as the gear ratios and positions of gears to fill all available space.  The bezel and plinth are  at present Corian bench top material spray painted gold. Finally they will  be Brass. I have made the bayonet clamp mechanism to hold this assembly in place.   I have made most  subsections easily detachable so that if there is a problem on a subsection , it can easily be removed and sent to me with out disturbing the whole clock. You might also like my skinny gear.  The first photo shows it  while the  spokes were getting cut. This gear has 516 teeth. In total the Planisphere tooth count is 2699 teeth in a set of 16 gears. I have a digital dividing head and auto cut and feed on the milling machine so gear cutting is almost automatic, so, high tooth count gears are just fun.


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## petertha (Mar 3, 2018)

Just stunning! I've spent 'more than a few' hours on your web site 

I know this is just scratching the surface. But generally, when you make your ornate frame components from sheet brass stock, I've seen a few pictures with cad templates attached to the stock outlining the shape, what looks like a Hegner scroll saw?, I think a binocular looking magnifier. After that, once cut 'to the line', is it essentially all hand file work thereafter to get the surfaces all blended in & looking so good? (I'm talking about the more ornate pieces, not precision fit stuff like gear teeth & motion transfer surfaces). Or is there a 'power tool' like an upright rotating abrasive cylinder or maybe a filing machine?

Also, I was lurking on some of the jewelry & clock sites to see what they use for temporarily holding stock to do machining & then releasing it without distortion. It seems like there are some old school favorites, what they call setter cement or dop wax? Seems like a shellac/wax type base usually burgundy or sometimes green color? Others seem to be going for epoxy or CA & then releasing with heat (likely more heat?) or sometimes solvent for CA. I've seen some of that on ClickSpring videos for example. Do have a favorite method for this operation? For reference, say .050-.100" thick stock, mounted either on a plate in the lathe for turning work or sacrificial plate for milling work.


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## Buchanan (Mar 4, 2018)

Pertha. 

Yes it is like you say. For the ornate work , I Photo copy the piece of brass plart, the drew  the art design around pivot and mounting holes on the photo copy,(you can make a many mistakes and changes you like until you are satisfied). Any circular bosses are scribed around existing holes on the plate. I then spray both the paper and brass sheet with aerosol contact adhesive, While the glue is still wet, I apply the paper design to the brass and slide it around on the wet adhesive until the design is aligned withe the predrilled holes in the brass plate. when the glue is dry i cut along all the  Design lines with a scalpel blade. This transfers the design onto the brass as  a scribe line as well. Then I remove the paper.  Yes the saw is a Hegner, and I have a low power binocular microscope. The microscope make it possible to cut along a scribed line with great accuracy very easily. When the design is cut out, the round bosses are filed to shape around filing buttons.( I used to make the harden the buttons, but ruined far to many good files, so, now I make the buttons long and leave them soft. A soft filing button will remain accurate for at least ten bosses.) The rest of the design is finished with files by hand. I have made a belt type sanding machine which has some unique features, but it has a few short comings as well, so, will be redesigned before I use it regular.  

I use car body filler , super glue, epoxy and shellac  for part holding,  No special favorites. The job dictates! It depends on the  requirements of each particular job. , Myhugh tells you how to do it in the Merlin and Radial engine threads.


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## kvom (Mar 4, 2018)

Are the curves all hand drawn, or done with CAD?


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## Buchanan (Mar 4, 2018)

Kvom.
Most curves are drawn by hand on an enlarged photo copy if the uncut brass plate. Often we will explore 2 or more designs before completing a part. The final refining is done by file, as , but that stage we are working with the final part and it my look too heavy or a curve just not flowing properly. i have used splines on cad a few times but it is more cumbersome. Any CNC'd part has every radius left by a cutter removed so that it is the same as if it had been hand made.


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## Buchanan (Jun 22, 2018)

Here is the latest update. http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_05-18.htm
Next is the orrery.


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## petertha (Jun 22, 2018)

Wow, Wow, WOW.
I've been looking on your site & elsewhere (purely for interest) for the machine & process that makes these intricately curved, cut patterns. Can you provide any info/reference links?


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## Buchanan (Jun 22, 2018)

It is a home made CNC mill, Mach 3  Draftsite 2 D cad and Cam Bam. Nohing extrodanary. look at the drawing in the last installment.


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## kvom (Jun 22, 2018)

If I understood the writeup the planisphere cover in Corian was a mockup prior to making the final part in brass.  With spray paint it looks pretty good.

I was surprised to see the drafting table when you also use Draftsight.  Brings back memories.


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## natalefr (Jun 22, 2018)

Simple, do not you?


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## Buchanan (Jun 22, 2018)

I should have said that the pink in the last drawing shows the path of the drive to the outer moon on Saturn. 
For the engine turning . I draw  the outline of the dial  and then made an array  of overlapping circles around the center of the dial, then deleted all the lines outside the area that I want machined in the pattern.  On CAN BAM, I selected all the lines and engraved along them with a v shape cutter.  Corian counter top scraps make a lovely material for test machining. The only disadvantage is that it is a little dusty. It does not melt when milled like plastics and cutters stay sharp for a long time. It also takes paint well. I pull it out of the scrap bin at a Kitchen cabinet manufacturer. For me, the drafting table is better when designing something complex and a lot of changes need to be made. For CNC machining CAD is a requirement. From this point  on I will use hand drawn sketches. As I do all the work myself I know what is happening so only the important dimensions are calculated. The rest is done by eye.


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## ddmckee54 (Jun 22, 2018)

Back in post #65 you were asking about printing 2mm characters in black on glass.(Just catching up.)

 You've probably already thought about it, but what about the techniques/materials they use for hand painted stained glass?  Printing the 2mm characters should be no problem and after it's fired the printing would become part of the glass.  You'd probably have to experiment a little bit, and it might cost the better part of an arm and a leg to get the parts printed and fired, but with the work that's already gone into this beast that cost would probably be a drop in the bucket.

Don


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## Buchanan (Jun 22, 2018)

ddmckee54 said:


> Back in post #65 you were asking about printing 2mm characters in black on glass.(Just catching up.)
> 
> You've probably already thought about it, but what about the techniques/materials they use for hand painted stained glass?  Printing the 2mm characters should be no problem and after it's fired the printing would become part of the glass.  You'd probably have to experiment a little bit, and it might cost the better part of an arm and a leg to get the parts printed and fired, but with the work that's already gone into this beast that cost would probably be a drop in the bucket.
> 
> Don


Don. That is exactly what I am working on right now. I had a test part that worked really well. When I received the real part , while I was machining the glass the print just floated off. I possibly did not clean the glass properly before I sent it to the printers.  I am going to have another try before I discard that route. Thanks for the input.


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## Shelton (Jun 22, 2018)

@Buchanan   That's incredible!


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## Buchanan (Jul 13, 2018)

*This is the bearing for Saturn. 
the small ballrace has a 2mm id 5mm od .



I










There is a photo update on the orrery at:
http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_05-18a.htm

Here is the first stage gearing between Saturn and Jupiter.
We have slight alignment problems between the two sets of gears.  this will be corrected.
the gears are 1 mm thick. there are 4 more layers of gears to fit in between the two planet arms 












*


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## Herbiev (Jul 13, 2018)

Looking great so far. Thanks for the update


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## bazmak (Jul 13, 2018)

Still following with awe


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## Anatol (Jul 14, 2018)

I'm a latecomer to this thread. Like others, I find the evident skill and patience awe-inspiring. I had been thinking of building an Orrery, so this has provided food for thought. 
For those interested in the history of such machines, there is some very interesting research on an ancient Greek machine - the Antikythera device. see video at -


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## Wiff (Jul 15, 2018)

Ich verbeuge mich vor Ihnen.


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## Buchanan (Sep 7, 2018)

Latest update.  http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro-07-18.htm and a few photos.  the large gear weighs 6.6 grams or about 1/4 ounce.


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## minh-thanh (Sep 7, 2018)

Blogwitch said:


> This post really shows that us mere mortals are only playing at engineering.
> 
> I keep saying that I most probably, after 50 years at this game, only know about 1% of what there is to know. Looking at the quality and ingenuity of this clock, I think I could divide that figure by 10.
> 
> ...



John ! 
You is 1%,   me it is probably 0.1%
It is a marvel of a mechanical.


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## Rickl (Sep 8, 2018)

The workmanship leaves me completely amazed. Thanks.


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## Buchanan (Sep 14, 2018)

Saturn is finished. next is Jupiter.


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## Buchanan (Oct 12, 2018)

*Here is the next update at  the website.  http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro-08-18.htm .

This is the jig I use for scribing the spokes before I cut them out on an electric scroll saw.
first the inner and outer rim are scribed with a spring loaded scriber mounted in the quill of my jig borer(luxury item).
the gear is spun aroiud


 a spigot mounted on the machine table




Then it is glued to the brass plate with a set of pins placed to give me 3,4,5,6,8 or 12 spokes. 




The scribing bar has a screw at each end so that the taper and width of the spoke can be adjusted. 



The jig can take 6 inch diameter gears down the the 5/8th inch gear you see here. *


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## bazmak (Oct 12, 2018)

Unbelievable, I hope the shipping co don't drop it when its delivered to the client


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## mayhugh1 (Oct 16, 2018)

That's a qood comment. How will this be shipped to the customer? It doesn't look like something that can be packed to handle the shocks it'll see during commercial shipping that I'm familiar with, and looks too large for a commercial plane seat. Are there companies that will accept and insure a delivery like this? - Terry


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## Buchanan (Oct 16, 2018)

That is a very valid question, Firstly most of the complication are sub assemblies that can be packed individually in a small boxes, likewise the two balance assemblies. 
The main clock movement will bolt to a base that forms part of a box. This is, in turn, placed in another box with shock absorbing sponge pads between the two boxes.  There can be up to three boxes  inside each other. There are sock sensors and tilt sensors that are glued to the box, and, there are fine art shipping companies that are  specialist in this type of transport. They supervise the loading and unloading at the airport, as well as customs inspections. Then there is the insurance and the reassembly to think of. It is an expensive operation. It is a tremendous relief when a clock is finally delivered and running. I have been through this process three times , Once there was damage to the wooden pedestal of an antique clock, when a truck driver tipped the pedestal on its side in the truck and it landed hard, there was checker pattern imprint in the timber. Unfortunately this was only wrapped in bubble wrap plastic as it was fairly robust and needed restoration. So there are problems.


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## bazmak (Oct 16, 2018)

I assume you would have to go and assemble for the client
Where in the world would that be
How long
Will the finished clock be displayed under a glass dome
etc  etc


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## Buchanan (Oct 16, 2018)

This is a photo of the original Mockup.It is all cardboard and rattle can paint, and picture frame material, but gives the general idea of what we were aiming for.
I hope to go for the install. It will be going to Chicago.
How long? There is a bout a year more of construction and then I have to polish the beast.


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## bazmak (Oct 16, 2018)

Whats the approx. overall height in the photo I assume a glass enclosure


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## Buchanan (Oct 16, 2018)

About 6 foot ,  the brass movement is 28 inches wide 29.5 inches to the top of the brass balls and 17 inches deep . I have lost count of the number of parts but it must be heading for the 4000 mark


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## bazmak (Oct 17, 2018)

Just the right height for viewing it must be quite a sight when its running.Are a lot of the movements visible to the eye
or are they so slow you don't see them. Are the planets visibly moving to the eye.If you understand my question


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## Ghosty (Oct 17, 2018)

bazmak, A quick search on the tube and you will get a lot of videos, enjoy

Cheers
Andrew


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## Buchanan (Oct 17, 2018)

The prime criteria when given this commission was: size(not to small ),complexity and movement. When the clock is running normally, every thing moves in real time. So the fastest moons on Saturn and Jupiter complete an orbit in just over a day, But, that is a little slow so we have a demo mode where all the complications can be cranked around at high speed, as in this    There are many more videos on my clients you tube channel.


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## kvom (Oct 25, 2018)

I assume that in the video the two "pendulums" are disconnected as I doubt they can be sped up.  Also I don't see the hands moving, so it's a partial demo?


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## Buchanan (Oct 26, 2018)

Here is the next installment. http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro-09-18.htm  Saturn is complete and Jupiter nearly so. 


Kvom, yes. You are correct. The clock is not stopped or interfered with during a demonstration. So the accuracy of the clock is not affected.


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## Buchanan (Nov 16, 2018)

Here are a few photos of progress to date, Jupiter is complete  64 of the 105 gears in the Orrery.


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## bazmak (Nov 16, 2018)

Your skill and craftsman ship is beyond belief,it makes my head spin just looking and thinking about it
PLEASE DONT DROP IT


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## kvom (Nov 16, 2018)

Doing some rough math:  4000 parts made over 10 years = more than one part made per day.  You really keep your nose to the grindstone.


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## bazmak (Nov 16, 2018)

Putting it like than gives it more wow factor


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## LorenOtto (Nov 16, 2018)

Thank you for sharing so we can all learn a new thing every day.  It helps to keep our brains alive.


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## Buchanan (Dec 6, 2018)

Here is the next installment:http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_10-18.htm


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## kvom (Dec 6, 2018)

Gets better and better.  I enjoyed reading how the 17mm spacing as drawn turned out to be 17.005mm in actuality.  2 tenths off.

I assume that the "clutch" on the moon arms is to allow them to be positioned manually if adjustment needed.


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## CFLBob (Dec 6, 2018)

There really are no words for how awesome this.  I've been reading your updates quite a while and it never ceases to leave me breathless.


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## nel2lar (Dec 6, 2018)

Buchanan
I have seen this for years and it keeps me amazed at the magnitude of talent and perfection. I can not say it enough how much I enjoy your build. I have one question that has been on my mind for years, How do you keep the brassy parts bright and shiny? I have made parts with brass and can not keep that polished look for very long. I use William R. Smith's Rub N Brite polish and love how nice it makes the brass look. I am open to any suggestions.
Nelson


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## Buchanan (Dec 6, 2018)

Kvon you are dead right.   I polish with Brasso and Lacquer with an Australian product called Like Armor.  We have not made a decision what the final finish will be, but if you polish brass and leave it undercoated, just don,t touch it. (why do we want to hold that part when it is beautifully polished?)


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## burkLane (Dec 7, 2018)

I recently started to read the complete linked page from start to finish.  This project quickly fell into the wow this is crazy complex mechanical engineering art.  I was in awe of the detail for any single part of this. As kvom mentioned the amount of engineering and mechanical detail put into accurately tracing the movement or path of a moon is extraordinary. Then adding artistic constraints of proportion , scale and style put into 1000's of parts made over years in time puts this in category of its own.


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## Buchanan (Dec 7, 2018)

Here is something others might find useful.  I first read about in the M.E. many years ago.  In this project space is tight. Especially in height in the Orrery.  With the main center bearing assembly. the available height is 29mm. into that space we must fit 6 concentric sleeves or shafts and 12 ball bearings.









Standard miniature ball bearings are far to thick so this is how we thin them down.  First remove the seals or shields with a small screwdriver 






Then gently push out the cage taking care not to distort it.






Encourage the balls to one side with a sharp thin probe or screwdriver 






The center race will then be free to remove.





Hold in a collet or step chuck. I use both when holding in a straight collet , care must be taken to clamp it true. 
I usually clamp it lightly and then run the lathe in reverse and push it back into the collet while the lathe is running with a lathe tool. This   removes any wobble.
then reduce the thickness by the required amount with a carbide tool. Here I use a broken 1/8th inch carbide drill as a blank.  cutting angles are not critical but it will need to be sharpened a few time during machining down  an inner and outer bearing.  Negative  top rake  and minimal clearance gives a strong edge.  In n this photo  I did not remove the shield, it fell out when I have machined away enough of the outer race. This saves time picking away with a tiny screwdriver. The step in the inner edge of the outer race, for the shield, is a good indication of how much you can thin down a bearing, before you get clearance issues with the cage.








The outer race is removed from the lathe and measured for constant thickness.







If necessary, the thickness is adjusted in a 100 grit  diamond lapping plate until it is of constant thickness and to size. I leave a about 5 hundredths of a millimeter for adjustment,about a thou.







Then I replace it in the lathe and turn a radius /chamfer on the inner and outer edge.







Repeat the procedure on the other side of the race. I don't chamfer the second side until it is lapped parallel, as is is a way to identify which side I am lapping. .
Repeat the same procedure for the inner race.    More to follow.


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## Buchanan (Dec 7, 2018)

Clean everything and apply a little grease on the inner side of the outer race. Replace the balls all on one side .






Put the inner race back in place. The thinner  components make this a relatively easy process.






Spread the balls equally around the bearing and gently encourage the cage back into place.










You now have a reduced thickness bearing that has a much better scale appearance.
the process takes about 1/2 hour with a little practice on a bearing this size.  It pays to have a spare  bearings in case you drop something.


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## ShopShoe (Dec 8, 2018)

Buchanan,

I'll never make a masteriece even approaching a fraction of what you can do, but I appreciate the description of this bearing-thinning process. I can see getting into a situation where a thinner bearing is needed, but not available.

Thank You for sharing your project and your expertise.

--ShopShoe


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## Buchanan (Dec 14, 2018)

I have now altered the 12 ball races require for the center bearing assembly and  made all the  associated parts.








These make a set of 5 concentric  sleeves
.


.


Here they are all assembled.












I do  appreciate all the  compliments.  Please take into account that this is a commercial project and I get to spend all my time working on it.  I also have  luxury workshop equipment  It makes it much  easier than trying to do something like this in spare time with a limited budget,


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## petertha (Dec 14, 2018)

Again very impressive. 

Do you have certain favorites among brass alloys like this one for turned shafts & bushings vs. that one for milled gears vs. flat stock with profiles & fretwork?

Do you have a favorite technique / materials for fine lapping brass say in the simplest example like an ID to a known shaft to achieve a target fit? My limited experience is using brass itself as a lap against something harder like steel. In the case of your tiny gears & bushings, what works best to remove material but not stay embedded?


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## Shopgeezer (Dec 15, 2018)

I am new to the forum and just found this topic. After reading through the entire thread and picking my jaw up off the floor I am curious as to the motivation of your client. Is the goal to produce the most complex mechanical clock in history?  You say that the client is designing the clock as you build it. I can only imagine the Solid Works files. He must have considerable mechanical design experience, as well as very deep pockets. 

Maybe once it is done you should take on a replica of the Antikythera mechanism. You would be the most experienced person on the planet to do this.


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## nel2lar (Dec 16, 2018)

Shopgeezer
The Antikythera mechanism would be a back step for this master has been. Talent and real masters come together in projects like this.


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## nel2lar (Dec 16, 2018)

nel2lar said:


> Shopgeezer
> The Antikythera mechanism would be a back step for this master has been. Talent and real masters come together in projects like this.


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## Buchanan (Dec 19, 2018)

Shopgeezer : 

My client is a highly intelligent and knowledgeable clock collector, here is his description of what he wanted.  Quote:


On the cover of the October 2003 issue of Horological Journal was a beautiful great-wheel skeleton clock by the firm Buchanan. I was interested to see if the firm was looking to sell this clock. After some discussion it was learned that this company was looking to have specialty commissions. Both I and a friend of mine were interested in hiring the firm and it was decided that he would initiate the first commission. That has since been completed and was featured in the April 2006 issue of Horological Journal - a magnificent wall hanging regulator featuring dual counter swinging pendulums and movements based on Breguet's famous design, but including a unique escapement and remontoire system.

I wanted my commission to be unusual and unlike anything built before. My three guiding principals for the clock were that it had to have *scale* (an imposing presence), *movement* (many things happening to catch the eye) and *complexity*. Of course it had to look beautiful incorporating all the basics of good design and fabrication techniques as demonstrated by the master clock makers of the 18th - 19th centuries. All to maximize visual impact. What you see here is a full scale mockup done in wood of what has now begun to be manufactured in metal. The overall size of the movement is 24"w x 29"h x 18"d. With the stand and case 36"w x 77" h x 24" d. Including the weights it's mass will be about 600-700 lb. No expense has been spared in the design. It is my belief that this firm is possibly unique in it's ability to build such a challenging project and to apply the high standards expected for such a monumental effort.   


  You can see a lot more here at his website.  http://www.my-time-machines.net/my_current_project3.htm



We had many discussions and I was sent many photographs of other clocks that had mechanisms or styles that he wanted incorporated. He also sent sketches of possible layouts. 

 Buchanan then had to produce a set of pencil and paper drawings in 2D of the presupposed  design. Then we built a mock-up in wood and plastic. I sent this mock up  to Chicago for his approval.  

All the mechanical design is done in house,on a traditional drafting board. Only recently have I started to use 2D cad.(Draftsite)  My client will follow the whole design procedure and often will have input in details of construction or suggest ideas that can be incorporated.    

Pertha. 

CZ 121 leaded engraving brass by choice or CZ121 drawn bar.  I very rarely lap anything , as you say , there is danger if embedded abrasive ,but often use a burnisher to 'compact' the surface finish on a high tolerance finish. Sharp smooth tools produce an almost polished finish that can be controlled to 1/100 mm easily. Attention to corner radius's and sharp corners are  important. Good tools are a great help. 
Jewels and ball races are used for almost all rubbing surfaces.  

As for the Antikythera mechanism, that is another story altogether. You are not even sure what it actually should be!  The detective work is more than the construction.  I don't know where  iwould even start on that.


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## Shopgeezer (Dec 19, 2018)

Amazing. Even the wood mockups are works of art. All done with pencil and paper.  What a testament to thousands of years of clock making, from wooden gears and water wheels through the great European traditions to the pinnacle of the art with this clock.  It would be worth the trip to Chicago just to see it, if that is where it ends up.  

The Antikythera people have been scratching their heads for years. Your insight into how such mechanisms are constructed would be valuable to them.  The interesting thing is how old it is.  That means the early foundations for complex gear systems goes back even further. Those makers had to create each gear, bearing and shaft entirely by hand.  The depth of human creativity in mechanical construction from then until now is a fascinating study. I can understand why your client is so interested in it.


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## Buchanan (Feb 20, 2019)

Here are the following two updates on the clock, I will try to attach a few more photos shortly. 
http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_12-18.htm
http://www.my-time-machines.net/astro_11-18.htm


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## mayhugh1 (Feb 20, 2019)

All I can say is Gawd... I just don't see how you can let it go. 
Terry


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## John Antliff (Feb 20, 2019)

It's just an awesome, beautiful testimony to skill, persistence, craft and imagination.  A truly wonderful creation!


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## deeferdog (Feb 21, 2019)

Ah well, back to hacking out that chunk of aluminium for a gear I was going to make.......Sigh!


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## Buchanan (Feb 21, 2019)

Thank you for the compliments. Terry I know your work , so it is a compliment indeed.

This is where we are now. 
The inner planet gearbox is practically complete. 
This is gearbox  in two halves









 There are about 40 gears here.  
It is not all that big either 





There is 15,5 mm between the plates, less than 5/8th of an inch
Here it is with the rest of the orrery.




Here it is  in the clock.


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## mayhugh1 (Feb 21, 2019)

It's so delicate looking that a lot of engineering had to have gone into making sure it can support its own weight. No wonder the gears had to skinnied down so much. And the frictinal losses in so many moving parts must have been staggering to keep track of.  It must also be really interesting to listen to. With so many parts it's probably musical. Be sure and record a sound bite before you send it away. -  Terry


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## kvom (Feb 21, 2019)

I'll bet the assembly manual will be impressive.


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## Shopgeezer (Feb 21, 2019)

I can’t believe that the gear wheels are cut by hand. The video showing this is unbelievable. The operator is cutting dead straight on the spoke outline with what looks to be a cranky old mechanized coping saw. Is he pumping it with his foot?  Certainly shows the high level of accuracy that could be obtained historically. I can’t help but think that a whole bunch of parts could be cut out of a sheet of brass a lot faster with a laser or water jet


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## IceFyre13th (Feb 21, 2019)

Shopgeezer said:


> I can’t help but think that a whole bunch of parts could be cut out of a sheet of brass a lot faster with a laser or water jet



Blasphemy......but imagine the time it would take via 3D printing.....


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