# Whittle Aero V8



## cobra428 (Apr 9, 2009)

Hi Guys,
Does anybody have any info on this engine? When I bought the kit from Hemingway they said the plans are correct. I found the Yahoo site with the V8 group. The errors I'm finding are this....Here they are talking about the distance from the center of the cyl to the lifter holes in the block (copied from yahoo)

"One issue that no one has mentioned before is that there is an error on the drawing of the crankcase top part. The distance from&#160; the centre of the cylinders to the centre of the cam followers should be 0.39775&#148; not 0.400&#148;.&#160; If you build to the 0.400&#148; dimension then the followers will be 0.00225&#148; out of alignment with the camshaft. (Assuming crank and cam gear centres are 0.5625&#148.&#160; If you draw it up on the CAD this will be confirmed."

Can anybody tell me how to work to 5 decimal places? ???

I really would appreciate it if somebody out there knows something seriously wrong with this engine. Please let me know. Otherwise the build will begin in 2 weeks 
Tony


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## Mainer (Apr 9, 2009)

It sounds to me as though maybe somebody is too infatuated with their new CAD program to stop and figure out whether, functionally, that 2+ thou makes any practical difference in operation.

It might -- but it's also quite possible it's irrelevant. You'll have to evaluate from a functional point of view and decide.


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## cobra428 (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks Mainer,
After I had posted, that same thought came to me too. I think all the errors are do to CAD modeling and not build machining. I'm thinking it's a virtual engine site! ;D
Tony


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## Bluechip (Apr 10, 2009)

Tony ..

I don't know if it's of any relevance, but this engine had a series of articles in Model Engineer, starting April 1995, describing the build. By the designer ..

Bit beyond my capabilities, but to add to others posts, 1/100,000th Inch, .... ?? Nah, I'll leave that one alone ;D ;D

Just a thought 

Dave


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## Weldsol (Apr 10, 2009)

Yes CAD can confuse matters some of the time but is always handy for checking through before you lay cutting tool to material. Iv'e had the same problem when re-scaling the Shay on the CAD I ended up with some wierd dimensions that even the digital read out on the mill couldn't handle. I think that if you could manage to make the item then it would not fit other parts due to the tolerances.
Now we are talking about ambient temps, when machining parts to match others. What next positive pressure work shops to keep out any dust. :
I reset the dim, values on the CAD to only 3 decimal places (metric) and that stopped quite a lot of the strange figures 

Paul


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## kf2qd (Apr 10, 2009)

Sounds like someone who has little experience machining and much experience nit-picking. How big is the cam follower? how big is the cam? and will the couple thou make any difference in operation? Or - did the designer use 0.400 because it was easy to work with and plenty close enough for things to work.

Some folks have no understanding of tolerances. You make things "close enough" so that it can actually be biult without running the cost (in dollars for commercial, or excessive time for the hobbiest) to ridiculous levels. Make the parts to half a knat's eyelash for the critical parts, and work with a bit of space where it doesn't matter. And the product will last for years with little maintenance. (Like you car or motorcycle...)


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## cobra428 (Apr 10, 2009)

Hey Thanks Guys
You have given me a bit of confidence to start cutting metal. You know every time I have mention this engine to anyone (in the hobby of course) They said ooooohhhhh the plans are wrong that engine is messed up. The other side of me says how come this engine was a featured artical in ME Mag and won at the Brit's version of NAMES? So far I built 5 engines some from castings some from scratch and everyone of them needed a little TLC and common sense to get the fitting right, running and running right. That's what I think is so great about this hobby....you have to think and think about your next move and even the move after that! I'm a mechanical engineer and every time I have to put a tol. on a part of +.003 -.000 I think about how I can redesign so that I don't need such a crucial dim. and it can be mfg easier and cost effective.
So I'll come down off my soap box and get back to the shop and get my hit and miss finished so I can start the 8. I'm thinking I will start a build thread on the 8 after that.
Thanks and have a great holiday!
Tony


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## mu38&Bg# (Apr 10, 2009)

The slight offset of the cam followers to the cam shaft will have an influence on valve motion and possible cam and or cam follower wear. That assumes one cam actually grind a cam perfect enough not to be the main source of error in the valve train. For an engine that is run for display this isn't an issue. The purists will have fits, but it won't stop the engine from running.


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## RonGinger (Apr 10, 2009)

> The other side of me says how come this engine was a featured artical in ME Mag and won at the Brit's version of NAMES?



Actually, he won a prize at NAMES as well. He brought the model over one year, about the same time it was in ME magazine. He had it on the Strictly IC table, which was right next to the main entrance door. On Sunday afternoon as most people were packing up he left it on that SIC table and someone grabbed it on the way out the door.

That really troubled a lot of people, and there was considerable publicity. Eventually the model was found and returned to the owner. It was never clear who grabbed it or how it was recovered.

As far as I know that was the only model ever stolen at a NAMES how.


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## cobra428 (Apr 10, 2009)

WOW!! 
Never new that. That has got to be the most lowest thing! Especially coming from a fellow modeler! This engine to me is one of the most magnificent model engines (in my eyes) I ever saw. I hope to do it justice. G. Luhrs makes some great stuff on that scale too (if not smaller) but doesn't pub any plans. He is part ? of my metal club and I will visit his shop in a month or so. I plan to "grill" him over spark plug making and gearing of his stuff. He is amazing! In case you haven't seen his stuff go to.

http://www.minimodelengines.com/index2.htm

And be amazed
Tony


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## Mo deller (Apr 10, 2009)

Looking forwards to seeing this build. Hope it goes well.
I looked at the Hemingway site and quite like the vee twin aero. Bit pricey for me at the moment though 

Mo.


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## GailInNM (Apr 15, 2009)

Tony,
I finally had time to get my notes out on the Whittle V8. (In another thread) When I said the cam drawings were wrong on the original drawing, I was working from memory. I should have looked things up first. I have two notes from others about the cam dimensions, but I have not checked the drawing out completely myself. I apologize for possibly passing on incorrect information. 

I shared a table with Eric Whittle at NAMES in 1993 or 94. This was before the V8. He was displaying his Robin that year. During slow periods we had some time to chat. He is a good engineer and craftsman and I was impressed with both him and his models. The V8 uses a lot of the techniques that he developed when designing the Robin. I also saw him the year he had the V8 at NAMES, but about all we got to do was say hello.

I started on the V8 about 2-1/2 years ago, but had to put it on the shelf after a brief period because of health issues. Things are much better now. If you looked at the photos on the Yahoo site, you probably saw the crankcase and some other assorted parts in my folder. I have made some of the other small parts since then. I was planning on doing the camshaft next, but later changed my mind and made the fixtures to turn the crankshaft. 

If you do decide to build the V8, I will follow with lots of interest. I am just finishing up some projects now and you have rekindled my interest in the Whittle. It is a beautiful engine. I might restart on it and build in parallel with you time wise.

Gail in NM,USA


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## cobra428 (Apr 15, 2009)

Hi GailinNM,
I searched on the yahoo site for "errors" "drawings". The only thing that popped up was the 5 place decimal thing on the lifter hole locations. Let me know is you turn up anything else. I'm studying the plans and the text, I still have to get my h&m running good but it's good "library" reading for now. He was using a "combo" lathe so, I'm try to work out some methods in my head for a separate mill and lathe method. Not to much different but different. Glad to hear you are gaining an interest back in the engine. Maybe we will inspire each other on to the finish! I'll take a look on yahoo for your stuff.
TonyR


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## GailInNM (Apr 15, 2009)

Tony,
I don't know of any errors on the plans. There are a few places where roundoff errors could occur, but those are easy to catch as you go along. Besides, most of them will end up closer than the tolerances I work to anyway. I have a couple of sheets of things on the cams that others have made up, but at least one of them I think is BS. I think they read the drawing wrong, but unless I really sit down and check it out I don't really know. Also I am working with the original Model Engineer drawings and there may have been some changes made before the Hemingway plans were produced. 

There are a few places that I had to do some searching on the drawings to work out some dimensions, but nothing that was wrong.

My crankcase has a few minor modifications to suit my working style, but the only thing functional is I changed the crankshaft bearings to imperial sizes so the crankshaft goes from 6mm to 1/4 inch. That was only because I have a big bag of new bearings that size. Of course other things associated with those changes have to be changed.

For the benefit of people following this thread that are not familiar with the Whittle V8, here is a photo of a completed engine from the Hemingway web site. Also, a link to the page on the site where the photo is in case someone wants more information.
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/The_V8_Aero_Engine___Eric_Whittle.html


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## cobra428 (Apr 15, 2009)

Yeah GailinNM,
Those are the pictures that hypnotized me into buying the kit! I know I will probable change a few things myself. That sounds like a good change on the crank. I also saw a few things called out like a .307 hole reamed. That is an expensive reamer $100 and up. I just happen to have a .3125 in my tool box. Gee I think I'll live with a hole that's .0055 off of the drawing. and make it's mate .0055 bigger. Then mark up the dwg so I'll know what I did! Also I plan to go with 0,1 and 2 screws and stay away from the BA's!
TonyR


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## GailInNM (Apr 15, 2009)

Tony,
I am changing all the fasteners to Unified also. Probably use socket head hex screws in most places. I know they don't fit the period of time, but I am not trying to build a scale model.
Gail in NM,USA


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## stevehuckss396 (Apr 15, 2009)

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> My crankcase has a few minor modifications to suit my working style
> 
> here is a photo of a completed engine from the Hemingway web site.




Where is the photo of your completed crankcase?


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## GailInNM (Apr 15, 2009)

Steve,
I don't want to hijack Tony's thread, but I suppose that this will be OK as he is planning to start a new build thread when he gets started.
Here are front and rear views.
Gail in NM,USA


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## cobra428 (Apr 15, 2009)

Hi Gail NM
wow WoW WOW, don't worry about stealing my thunder, you've just given me the inspiration :bow:
I just need to get my coles h&m finished (see other thread by me in wip). I need to learn to take pic's though.
Tonyr


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## steamer (Apr 16, 2009)

Damn Gail you do nice work! :bow: :bow:


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## GailInNM (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks Tony and Steamer.
I moved some more photos of the crankcase showing intermediate stages of machining into a Photobucket album that can be accessed at:
http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/n404/NMSteam/WhittleV8/

Tony, or anyone else, I have a PDF of my process sheet for the crankcase that shows the order of operations that I did in making it. I don't have an easy way to post it anywhere, but will email it to anyone who might be interested. It is not polished, just enough info to get me organized. You might NOT want to look at it as it might prejudice you in the way that you are planning to make yours with your equipment.

Gail in NM,USA


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## cobra428 (Apr 16, 2009)

Hi Gail,
Nice work in photobucket! I like to work out the processes myself, after all thats half the fun! BUT if I run into a jam you'll be hearing from me!
Tony


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## stevehuckss396 (Apr 16, 2009)

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> I don't want to hijack Tony's thread



It's not a hijack, your just posting your photos in the event he needs a visual aid for his project!! ;D


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## steamer (Apr 17, 2009)

Yes very nice photobucket!.....Just a bit of "whittling" there!  hehehehehehehehehhe
 ;D
.....sorry...couldn't resist 

Dave


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## mertkan37 (Feb 25, 2021)

Bu motoru bitiren calistiran oldumu...


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## xpylonracer (Feb 26, 2021)

See Eric's engine running in this video.


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## mertkan37 (Feb 26, 2021)

Where can I find my drawing in cad environment


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## xpylonracer (Feb 26, 2021)

I don't think a CAD drawing exists, printed plans are available from Hemingway in the UK.


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## mertkan37 (Feb 26, 2021)

Thenkyou
Tesekkur ederim..


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## abby (Feb 26, 2021)

There have been hundreds of this engine built and there is a dedicated yahoo group ,it would be to your advantage to join as there is a constant email flow discussing "how to "


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## mertkan37 (Feb 26, 2021)

O grubu bulamadım. Bana yardım et.


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## xpylonracer (Feb 26, 2021)

Yahoo Groups closed all groups and is now email centre only.  Group files moved to iO Groups, Join page here:








						WittleV8 groups.io Group
					

Forum for members interested in building or using the Eric Whittle designed 10cc V8 4stroke engine.




					groups.io


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## petertha (Feb 26, 2021)

Are there any pictures & attachments associated with the new iO group when one subscribes, or it it all text posts do you happen to know?


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## mertkan37 (Feb 26, 2021)

[QUOTE = "xpylonracer, gönderi: 355291, üye: 5941"]
Yahoo Grupları tüm grupları kapattı ve artık yalnızca e-posta merkezidir. Grup dosyaları iO Gruplarına taşındı, buraya katılın:
[URL unfurl = "true"] WittleV8 groups.io Group [/ URL]
[/ALINTI]
Tesekkur ederim.


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## xpylonracer (Feb 26, 2021)

Some files and 90+Mb of photos.


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## terryd (Feb 27, 2021)

xpylonracer said:


> See Eric's engine running in this video.




Hi,
I knew Eric Whittle quite well before he died and considered him a good friend.  We used to drink together in our village pub here in South Leicestershire.  He used to bring along a few of his engines to show me and I handled the vee 8 regularly and can confirm that it was a beautiful piece of engineering art.  He gave me a few short videos on CD which his son had made and I originally put one on Youtube.  After his death, as a tribute to Eric I put all the ones that I had together into a compilation on YouTube.  It includes the one you have but there are more in my video:



Stay safe and healthy,

TerryD


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## terryd (Feb 27, 2021)

xpylonracer said:


> I don't think a CAD drawing exists, printed plans are available from Hemingway in the UK.



Hi,

Eric originally published his drawings and build description of his Vee 8 in the British magazine Engineering In Miniature published by TEE.  I'm not sure of the date as I never asked him but he showed me a couple of his personal copies of the magazine in the late '90s/early 00s:






						Model Engineering Books, Engineers Workshop Manual and Engineer Back Issues UK
					

TEE Publishing Ltd provide model engineering books, model engineers workshop manual and model engineer back issues for specialists in the UK.



					www.teepublishing.co.uk
				




Stay safe and healthy,

TerryD


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## terryd (Feb 27, 2021)

petertha said:


> Are there any pictures & attachments associated with the new iO group when one subscribes, or it it all text posts do you happen to know?



Hi,

As an appetiser here are a few images of Eric's engine which he gave me before he died - click for a larger version:










I have more pictures of Erics other engines if anyone is interested,

 Stay safe and Healthy,

TerryD


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## mertkan37 (Feb 27, 2021)

I will use the precision casting method
I'll have to draw in cad environment
Thanks for your help..
...............
ben hassas döküm yöntemini kullanacagım 
cad ortamında çizmem gerekecek 
yardımlarınız için teşekkür ederim..


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## xpylonracer (Feb 27, 2021)

Thanks for the additional info Terry, seems the engine was an easy to start motor, just a few flicks, says a lot for the build quality.

Eric's build article and plans were in the UK Model Engineer magazine during 1996.


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## terryd (Feb 27, 2021)

xpylonracer said:


> Thanks for the additional info Terry, seems the engine was an easy to start motor, just a few flicks, says a lot for the build quality.
> 
> Eric's build article and plans were in the UK Model Engineer magazine during 1996.



Hi,

Yes I'm sure they were but originally he had them published in EIM starting in June 1993 onwards, which was his favourite magazine at the time and it was those articles he showed me,  I'm unsure as to how ME got the rights as there was a lot of rivalry between the two publishers before EIM was sold to Warners, I was remonstrated with by the then editor of ME when I mentioned an exhibition sponsored by EIM.  Eric never mentioned the ME series to me even though we were friends at the time.  By the way, the engine was based on the De Havilland Cirrus engine.

Stay safe and healthy,


TerryD


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## mertkan37 (Feb 27, 2021)

Yakit olarak nitro mu kullanir.


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## mertkan37 (Feb 28, 2021)

V8 Engine PE39 - Sarik Hobbies - for the Model Builder
					

Designer: Roy Amsbury A 120cc four-stroke engine designed for use in a 5in. gauge Hymek locomotive, but suitable for other applications. All construction is fabricated and no castings are necesary. (Vols. 166, 167)   Sheet I General arrangement (of one cylinder block only), cylinder head...




					www.sarikhobbies.com


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## xpylonracer (Feb 28, 2021)

Correction to my statement re starting date of the Eric Whittle V8 engine build series in the UK magazine Model Engineer, it commenced 21 April 1995, not 96 as said earlier.


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## terryd (Mar 1, 2021)

mertkan37 said:


> V8 Engine PE39 - Sarik Hobbies - for the Model Builder
> 
> 
> Designer: Roy Amsbury A 120cc four-stroke engine designed for use in a 5in. gauge Hymek locomotive, but suitable for other applications. All construction is fabricated and no castings are necesary. (Vols. 166, 167)   Sheet I General arrangement (of one cylinder block only), cylinder head...
> ...


A bit on the large size compared with Eric's 10.6cc engine.

TerryD


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## mertkan37 (Mar 2, 2021)

[QUOTE = "terryd, gönderi: 355467, üye: 3769"]
Eric'in 10.6cc motoruyla karşılaştırıldığında büyük boyutta biraz.

TerryD
[/ALINTI]
Benzin mi yoksa nitro mu kullanıyor?


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## xpylonracer (Mar 2, 2021)

Eric Whittle's engine runs on methanol and castor or synthetic oil + there is a very small amount of oil in the sump that splash feeds the bottom end. A small amount of nitromethane can be added to the fuel but if doing so it is best to drain the oil from the sump after running and thoroughly flush the engine with lay-up oil to prevent corrosion of steel parts, especially the bearings.


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## mertkan37 (Mar 2, 2021)

There are two different versions of the engine plan I shared above.


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## methuselah1 (Mar 7, 2021)

I am embarking on one of these; I've made the cylinders (remarkably with the same grooving tool) from EN16T, the pistons will be next after they have been honed. I got into it, and I made six extra while I was there... For another "one day maybe" project!

My question is this, though- I don't have CNC, and don't want it either; how are items like the timing gear cover machined manually, with the profile of the lugs for where the securing bolts pass?

I don' t often get stuck these days, but I'm stumped by this one!


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## xpylonracer (Mar 7, 2021)

Eric did it on a manually operated rotary table, mark out the 2 end radius points and the straight lines at a tangent to the marked rads, the end with the stud lugs will need another radius to the dimension over the lugs, machine to this greater radius first then move the machine axis so the tool cuts to the first radius marked, using 2 table rotation stops to prevent cutting into the lugs, remove the material between the lugs. If you don't want to set each stud centre to table centre for cutting the lug OD you can use a file to remove the small amount of material left.
You will have to set the work radius centre on table centre for each end before moving 1 axis the radius + 1/2 cutter diameter so the cutting edge of the tool is on the scribed line.
Are you in the UK ?


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## methuselah1 (Mar 8, 2021)

Well, no pain, no gain. I'll only be doing it once, and at least I have the machine for it- a MkII BCA. Thank you for the description, xpylon.

I am in the UK, I'm crippled, so I split my time between lodgings in Hatfield, Herts for work, and my house in Luton, Beds, where my machines are. I can' t drive anymore. All is not lost, however; I work in the University machine shop, and if I catch up with university work, I'm allowed to do my models!


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## Boo (Dec 15, 2022)

terryd said:


> ...I have more pictures of Erics other engines if anyone is interested,



Apologies for the thread resurrection, but I'd be very interested to see any picture you might have of his Robin engine, particularly any taken from the rear.

Thanks,

Boo


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## peterl95124 (Dec 16, 2022)

Tony,   I hope you have prior experience with an engine this small, 
.460" x .500"  bore and stroke make for some mighty small components,

IIUC this engine is the V8 version of an inline 4, which started out as
the De Havilland Cirrus Mk-I, which was first downsized from quarter scale
of 1.062" x 1.250" to sixth scale and ninth scale, before being Vee'ed.

I'm currently building the original quarter scale Cirrus, there is only one guy, 
John Meredith, in the BAEM Club that can do the very smallest scale models. 
if you can pull it off you'll be in a select group, best of luck and keep us posted !!!


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