# Printing airlock parts for my dust collector



## ddmckee54 (Apr 14, 2021)

About 20-25 years ago I made a pair of Shop Notes dust collector cyclones.  I used an electric leaf blower for the DC fan.  My calculations showed it was moving about 300-350 CFM.  I made a prototype cylcone for my shop to see if it worked.  I used the air filter from an '89 Aerostar as the final filter, calculations showed that it was capable of 350 CFM plus..  It was a noisy DC but it worked surprisingly well.  I then made a nicer version that I gave to my Dad for his shop as a Christmas present.  When my Mom and Dad moved off their acreage into a condo in 2007, for health reasons, he gave the DC back to me since he'd never be able to use it again.

A house move later and I getting the DC cyclone set up in my shop again.  I decided to improve it a little this time, I'm upgrading from the noisy leaf blower to a slightly quiter 600 CFM dust collector blower, and I'm adding an airlock to the cyclone discharge - airlocks are also sometimes called rotary valves.  Before we had to seal the discharge bin and that made it a PITA to check the level in the bin - or to empty the bin.

Since I've got a 3D printer now I decided I could print some of the airlock parts and get a lot neater airlock than anything I could cobble together otherwise.  The airlock body is a piece of 3" schedule 80 PVC pipe that's 150mm long.  The drive motor for the airlock is a 20RPM 12VDC gearmotor, I just happen to have a 12V wall wart that will work nicely for a power supply.  I'll wire in a switched outlet that will power both the fan and the wall wart and run the airlock whenever the fan is running.

Here's an in progress picture of the print of the part I'm calling the adapter.  The adapter is the transition piece that goes from the 6" round DC cyclone discharge to the rectangular-ish opening on the airlock body.  It was about 7 hours into the print when this picture was taken.  The entire print was estimated to take 18 hours, I started it at night when I went to bed and it was complete when I came home from work the next day.  I'm guessing the print time was in the 18-19 hour range since the bed was still warm when I got home.





The priming strip on the left is 2mm from the Y axis of the printer so the print is pushing the print envelope of the printer.

I've got most of the parts printed, and I'm working on cutting the inlet and discharge openings in the body of the airlock.  If anybody's interested I can take some more pictures and show you what I've got done so far.

Don


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## gld (Apr 14, 2021)

Yes, more pictures. I would like to see the rest of the story.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 15, 2021)

OK, there's been a couple that have looked at this so I'll doument it a little more.

This is a picture of the fully printed part from the first post.





The following picture is what the complete airlock will look like.  Just remember that it's upside down in the picture, the ring at the bottom is the mounting flange that bolts to the discharge of the DC cyclone.





The next picture shows the airlock body on the transition piece.





This picture shows the rotor and vanes added into the mix.  The rotor will actually be centered in the opening, and the vanes will be extended a few mm.  The vanes will be spring loaded so they maintain contact with the airlock body to minimize air leakage.  Too much leakage will actually prevent the material from being discharged from the airlock - I've seen it happen.





This is the rotor with a vane removed and laying in front of the rotor.  If you look closely you can see the pockets in the rotor and the vane where the springs will live.





As you can see I haven't got the inlet and discharge openings cut in the airlock body yet, that's the next step. This picture shows the jig that will be used to drill the mounting bolt holes and cut the openings.





My initial plan was to use a flush cutting router bit with the guiide bearing mounted on the top of the bit.  The only problem is that all of my flush cutting bits have the bearing at the bottom.

On to Plan B, I'll use a guide bushing for the router.  If I use a guide bushing with the current jig it will cut the opening about 1mm smaller all the way around which will leave a lip where crap can hang up.  To avoid that I'm printing another part with the opening 1mm larger all the way around and about 5mm thick.  I'll stick that part to the part shown above with double sided tape,  Then Bob's you uncle and Fanny's yourf aunt, because I'm back in business and cutting the corrrect sized opening.  One minor glitch, the opening in the plastic base plate of my trim router is too big for my router bushings.  No big deal,  I took that plate off and printed a plate with the correct sized opening.  3d printers are wondermous for doing crap like that.

Don


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## ajoeiam (Apr 16, 2021)

ddmckee54 said:


> OK, there's been a couple that have looked at this so I'll doument it a little more.
> 
> This is a picture of the fully printed part from the first post.
> 
> ...



Sorry there mate - - - - but for me at least - - - - there just ain't no pics (except for the one attached at the end).

I'm a thinking I want me one of those 3D printers - - - soon!


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## awake (Apr 16, 2021)

No pics showing for me either, except the last attachment. But that's enough to say, well done!

Any thoughts about whether static build up is a concern, or how to mitigate it? I know there have been endless debates about using PVC pipe for dust collection with regard to static, seemingly split evenly between for and against.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 16, 2021)

That one is listed as an attachment, all the rest aren't.  I'll look at as see if I can figure out what I did differently on all the rest of the pictures.  I'm kinda new at the posting pictures, I usually just lurk in the background.  The images show up on my computer, but I guess thaat doesn't mean a lot.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 16, 2021)

When I preview the post everything shows up fine on my computer, I don't know about yours.  Just in case I screwed up again, I'm going to attach all the pictures here too.  Maybe even a couple extra pix - just not in the same order.

These are the airlock end caps.





This is the rotor with one of the vanes removed.





Another shot of the  rotor and vane.





This is the transition piece.





This is the airlock body sitting on top of the transition piece.



.

This is cut jig sitting on top of the airlock body.





This is airlock body, end casps and transition piece. 




This shows the rotor and vanes in the airlock body.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 16, 2021)

Now that I think I've got that issue taken care of, I'll go on with an update.  I discovered last night that my Harbor Fright variable speed control is useless on my Bosch Colt single speed router.  I also discovered that my double sided tape is mostly usless, and while attempting to remove the router before had completely stopped it chewed up one corner of the cut jig.  That 4 flute end-mill did make an impressive pile of plastic chips though.

Plan C is to print out out a couple more versions of the cut jig, only with the opening expanded by 1mm on all sides.  I'm printing 2 of them just in case I do something stupid again.

Don


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## skyline1 (Apr 17, 2021)

Hi Don

Yes these 3D printers are amazing things. So amazing in fact that I've now got 2 of them (and thinking about a third if the budget will allow). My newest one is an Anycubic Chiron which is huge and will even print life sized model heads ( if I wanted to ! ).

The only limit is your imagination and If I want a weird shaped "widget" then I simply have to draw it in CAD, slice it then it's "fire up the Chiron"

If you don't want to do all that or simply want inspiration then try thingiverse  Thingiverse - Digital Designs for Physical Objects thousands of ready made STLs to print (including a few of mine) and all for free

Even with PLA the easiest to use material for printing you can make really strong structural components, like your airlock,

So it's not just toys and Benchy's  #3DBenchy but you can make those if you want, I made a 3x scale Benchy for a sea fishing friend, he loved it !
You can make real engineering components with them and PLA makes super foundry patterns especially for  the lost wax process (lost PLA in this case)

One word of warning though, they are just so mesmerizing to watch (and listen to) that you can spend hours doing so when you should be doing other things.

Best of luck with your project and keep us informed on progress.

Best Regards Mark


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 19, 2021)

I was able to get most of the airlock assembled over the weekend.  I realized that I needed to do a minor redesign of the vanes, and while they were printing my printer crapped out.  It was 3/4 of the way through a 2 hour print when I realized that something didn't sound quite right. I checked on the printer and it wasn't feeding any filament.  The PTFE liner in the heat break has failed and siezed to the filament.  This happened once before so I've got the parts to repair it.  But as long as I've got to tear the extruder apart, I might as well do some maintainence of the rest of the printer too.  It'll be a couple of days before I get the printer back in action.

Don


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## awake (Apr 19, 2021)

Don, it may be a good time to consider changing to a hot-end design that stops the PTFE before the heat zone. There are a lot of aftermarket extruders / hot ends on the market, both high end and cheap knock offs. My home-brewed 3d printer uses one of the ubiquitous import copies of the e3d design for the hot end, and in general it has performed flawlessly ... and it cost < $10, including spare nozzles and heat break tubes. I have had to replace the nozzle a couple of times, but as best I can tell, that is a normal part of filament printing. I once clogged up the all-metal heat break tube, but was able to drill it out and keep going - and I have a couple of spare heat break tubes on hand if/when that repair doesn't work.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 20, 2021)

Andy:

I don't ever print anything but PLA so the PTFE liner really isn't an issue.  The last time this happened was a year or two ago, probably a couple hundred print hours ago.  I really should start to keep better track of the print hours, I just know it was many spools of filament ago.

This is my go to printer, it's a Wanhao D6 clone.  I also keep a considerable stockpile of spare parts, I HATE waiting for repair parts to be delivered.  The funny thing is that my standby printer is also down for the same reason, but it's the first time in 6 years that I've had the liner fail on that printer.  I've had plenty off nozzles plug, but this is the first time the liner failed.

Don


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## awake (Apr 20, 2021)

Gotcha. I probably print PETG and PLA equally, with occasional use of other filaments.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 21, 2021)

I had the repair parts in stock, so I got my printer repaired and printed out the new vanes.  I had this brilliant idea brain fart, that I could use silicon tubing as the springs to keep the vanes tight against the airlock body.  It turns out that it doesn't compress too much axially, radially yes, axially not so much.  I've got some 3mm OD compression spring stock that I originally got for the springs in the rubber band guns.  It didn't work so well for them, but I'll try making some custom springs out of that.

I've also discovered that when I cut the openings in the PVC airlock body, the stresses in the PVC body apparently caused it to contract.  As the vanes go across the opening they catch on the sharp edge of the opening.  They wouldn't be catching on this edge if it hadn't moved in a little.  I put a 1mm radius on the edge of the vane when I designed them to try and avoid this type of problem, but it didn't help much.  I can probably take a sharp knife or chisel and bevel the inside edge of the opening a little bit to fix that problem.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 22, 2021)

I talked with one of the mechanical engineers at work yesterday about my airlock problem, I'm an electrical engineer - not mechanical, and he was wonderfing if maybe I wasn't trying to over-compress the silicon "springs".  So, I did a little bit of measuring last night as I took things apart.  With the vane tight against the airlock body I have 10mm from the rotor to the airlock body ID.  After I had taken everything apart, with the vane fully seated in the rotor, I have 9mm from the rotor to the the top of the vane.  That means under normal conditions there's only 1mm that the vane can move before it bottoms out,  When I measured the uncompressed height of the rotor/vane/"spring" combination I had over over 16mm from the rotor to the edge of the vane.  OOOPS - guesss I seriously over-estimated how much those "springs" could compress.  No wonder it fealt like the "springs" were folding over when I assembled the airlock, they were!.

I measured the depth of the pocket in both the rotor and the vane, added in the 1mm clearance, and then added another 2mm for "spring" compression.  This total stackup amounted to about 11mm, which is the length that I cut the "springs" to.  I reassembled everything, except the drive motor and motor mount, cobbled up a hand crank, and SHAZZAM... it still didn't work.  The vanes would still hang up of the edges of the openings.

A little sharp knife, chisel, and sandpaper work later... and Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt because it worked.  The airlock rotor goes roundy-roundy.  The vanes still click a little as they go past the openings so I need to figure that issue out.

I talked to the same mechanical engineer this morning and he recommended that I have more than 1mm clearance with the vane bottomed out.  Which makes sense when I think about it, the airlock needs to be able to clear itself if a chunk of crap gets hung up between the vane and the airlock body as the vane is going around.  I'll probably print a new set of vanes and give myself about 2-3mm of clearance.  As he said, this is engineering on the fly - it's what we do.

I still need to make the mounting flange to bolt this thing to the dust collector cyclone.  I've also ordered the parts I'll need to cycle the airlock on and off while the DC (dust collector) fan is running.  I got to thinking about it, and there is NO WAY that cheap little gearbox that I bought will run continuously for possibly hours at a time.  (A CNC router can make a HELLUVA mess if you don't have dust collection, and some really complex carvings will take hours of run-time.)  So I ordered the bits and bob to run the airlock for 1-3 minutes, then turn it off for up to 10 minutes, using adjustable timing relays.  This ON/OFF cycle will continue as long as the DC fan is running.   Until I get that done I'll just leave the airlock hand crank in place and the airlock motor/gearbox off.

I'll make the mounting flange then take a picture with everything hanging off the DC cyclone where it will live from now on.

It'll be a while before the DC can actually be used.  I've still got to get the DC ducting in place, install the DC fan with its' final filter, and actually build the CNC router.  (I still need to build the final filter for the larger CFM DC fan too.)  Once I've got the DC itself usable, I can hook the DC up to the drill press, the sander, the bandsaw, the tablesaw and all the other dust producers I've got.  I'll just install the DC ducting drops for all the "FUTURE" stuff, at least the stuff that has an assigned spot.

I know the way that I'll duct things together may not be optimum, but I've always thought that even crappy dust collection is better than no dust collection.

Don

Edit: Damned dyslexic keyboard spelled of as if, and spell-checker let it go since it was spelled correctlly.


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## awake (Apr 22, 2021)

Don, I am trying to picture how this works, but not quite succeeding. Why will you need to cycle the airlock on and off while the DC is running? I think I must not be correctly understanding what the airlock is for - limited imagination on my part


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 26, 2021)

The airlock motor is an inexpensive 12VDC gearmotor that is in no way rated for continuous duty.  It is light enough and compact enough that I can hang it off the airlock body instead of having to build a separate frame to hold the motor/gearbox.  By cycling it on and off I'll get a lot more hours of life out of the motor.

Don


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## awake (Apr 26, 2021)

I was thinking you would turn the motor on, open the airlock, and turn it off - while using the DC. Then when the DC is done, turn the motor on, close the airlock, and turn it off again. But I guess I'm thinking of this like a typical gate; you are clearly doing something different ... I am sorry that I am not understanding it (yet), but again, that is on me!


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 26, 2021)

You described the funtion of the blast gates that are opened and closed to connect or disconnect a piece of equipment to the dust collection system.  The airlock is a rotary valve that will be located at the bottom of the cyclone.  The cyclone separates the particulate out of the dust collector airstream and the airlock/rotary valve will empty the particulate out of the cyclone.

I'm used to how the dust collection equipment runs at work, where it has to run 24/7 and we need to worry about duty cycles.  Setting things up for continuous operation is overkill for my workshop, but it's what I'm used to.

Don


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## awake (Apr 26, 2021)

Don, thanks so much for the clarification. I was indeed getting confused with a blast gate. So now I think I get it, but let's make sure: I'm guessing that the debris will collect in section of the airlock that is open to the cyclone, but that closes off the cyclone from the lower part of the system. Periodically the airlock will rotate, at which point it will dump the debris out, meanwhile rotating another section of the airlock into place to receive debris - and all of this without ever allowing the air to leak past the airlock. Did I get it right, or close?

In the cyclone systems I have used / seen, instead of an airlock, there is simply a sealed lower section into which debris can fall and accumulate - a 50 gallon drum or something along those lines. But I'm guessing the difference is that the DC has to be shut down to empty the drum, whereas the system you are building can run continuously, and you can just swap one drum for another between airlock cycles.

I will be interested to see how this project progresses!


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy, now you're cookin' with gas!  The airlock gearmotor is 20rpm at the output, which is kind of fast for airlock rotation.  But I had it on hand so I'll try it.

I originally used a container sealed to the cyclone that the debris would fall into, but it was a hassle to check the level and/or empty.  Hopefully this airlock will make it much easier to do both.

I'm debating whether I want to try and reuse some of my first dust collection system's ducting or not.  I'm leaning towards not, as it was pretty much just cobbled together with whatever was easy and cheap - mostly HVAC sheetmetal fittings.  I'll probably wind up just keeping the blast gates and junk the rest.  As much as possible I'll try to do it right this time, the HVAC fittings tend to wreak havoc on your airflow.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 27, 2021)

After a very sad and unsuccessful attempt at making a wood adapter ring to bolt my airlock to the cyclone, I gave it up and 3D printed a ring.  The wood ring was one of those I cut it off twice and it was still too short type of deals.  It took about 6 hours to print the ring, and golly-gee - it fits.  I'll bolt things together tonight and take a picture of the cyclone and airlock.

I've been looking at the existing ductwork that I have and thinking about using various plumbing fittings.  I think I'll use a combination of the 4" sheet metal HVAC snap duct and 4" PVC sewer fittings.( Sweep Tees and Ells)  The sweep fittings and have a more gradual bend radius than either the HVAC sheet metal fittings or the standard plumbing fittings.  This and the higher CFM blower will help eliminate the dropout problem I was having on the original system.

There is some concern about using PVC in a dust collection system because of static buildup.  This can be alleviated by either running a continuous ground wire on the inside of the duct, or simply running it along the outside of the duct.  I am going to simply wire across the PVC fittings tying the sheet metal peices into one continous grounded duct.  I've seen what happens to dust collectors that go boom and it ain't pretty.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 28, 2021)

OK, this is what the airlock looks like when it's bolted to the cyclone.






I'm waiting on a more reliable coupler than my printed version for the gearmoter.  That's why I printed and installed the hand crank that you see on the left side of the airlock.  I'll probably just leave the crank installed after I get the parts since it will give me a visual indicator that the airlock is running.  The slow boat might have docked by the time I get all of the rest of the bits and bob assembled.

The DC blower will live under the cabinet that's behind the door.  The 6" elbow on the right side of the cyclone is the cyclone's inlet.  That's the only 6" duct that I've got, and it's 6" because that's what the cutting patterns in the plans were sized for.  The 4" duct to the blower will come off the top of the cyclone and tuck into the corner between the wall and the cabinet behind the inlet duct.  As you can see, I have yet to build and install that duct along with the final filter for the DC blower.  For a home built cyclone, these things were amazingly effective, it removes probably 90-95% of the particulate from the sirstream before the it gets to the DC blower, the final filter gets the rest.  Both my Dad and I used the dust collectors a lot, and there was only a small amount of fine dust in the final filters on both units.

Don


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## awake (Apr 29, 2021)

Don, I am not seeing the picture.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 29, 2021)

Andy:

That's because I did something stupid again, I forgot to put it in shared album.  The images show up for me, but not you guys.  Let's try this.






I'm going to attach the link to the pic in the shared album too.
Cyclone


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 30, 2021)

I saw that I had the pic's as attachments in my previous posts and that seemed to work, so I'll try it one more time.




Betcha it worked THAT time.


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## awake (May 1, 2021)

Yes, that last one worked. Very cool! Now we need to see a video of it!


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## ddmckee54 (May 3, 2021)

Andy:

It's going to be awhile before a video is even a possibility.  Right now the DC system is missing more parts than it actually has installed.

Over the weekend I worked on getting the DC fan modified, I wanted to roll the scroll housing 90° so that it discharges out the top instead of the side.  I also started printing the bushings that will adapt the 4.05" OD sheetmetal duct to the 4.2" ID PVC sewer fittings.  The last of the bushings are printing now.

Don


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## awake (May 3, 2021)

Understood. I am enjoying seeing how you are using 3d printing on this project!


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## ddmckee54 (May 5, 2021)

I managed to complete the surgery on the DC fan frame yesterday.  I reused most of the fan's tube frame, but I did have to cut off one side.  I thought I could just roll the housing 90° with no problem, I forgot that the housing was a scroll so the radius increased as I rolled it.  That's why I had to cut off one side, but I actually got the fan bolted to the wall.  I coulldn't resist a test run of the fan to see how noisy it was, it's actually fairly quiet.

I printed the last of the adapter rings for the 4" PVC fittings yesterday and got them all glued into the fittings.  I also printed another mounting flange yesterday, should be the last one I have to print.  This one's a 4" flange that will bolt the fan inlet ducting to the cyclone's air discharge at the top of the cyclone.  I didn't manage to remember to take a picture of any of it though, I'll get that tonight. 

Tonight I'll start on the installation of the fan inlet ducting.  That duct will be about 6' long and it's only got to make three 90° bends between the top of the cyclone and the fan inlet.... Piece o' cake.  I've just got to remember to wear gloves when working with that sheetmetal, the cut ends are like razor blades - I've got the boo-boo to prove it.

Don


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## awake (May 5, 2021)

Don, your last post mentioned gluing, and got me wondering: What filament are you using for these parts, and what glue are you using to attach to PVC?


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## ddmckee54 (May 6, 2021)

I'm just using standard PVC cement, the plan isn't to get a chemical bond betweeh the two parts.  Instead I believe that by using the PVC cement to soften the PVC and then pressing the printed adapters into the fittings, the softened PVC will mechanically bond to the nooks and crannies of the printed parts.  Seems to work, because I can't budge the adapters in the fittings once the PVC glue is dry.

If you're wondering about gluing PLA, I did find a flavor of Weldon glue that works on PLA.  I can't remember if it's Weldon #3 or #16, I think it's #3.  But if you Google solvent bonding PLA you should find references to it.  It's for acrylic parts but I guess PLA is close enough chemically to an acrylic that it works on the PLA.  One thing I did find was that the Weldon tended to bleach the color out of one of the PLA'a that I used it on.  I still got a fusion bond between the parts, but the filament in the bonded area turned white.

In this case I'm not really trying to bond the parts, just get a tight seal to stop air leaks.  I'll either tape or caulk the rest of the joints.  I used clear acrylic caulk last time and it wokded pretty well.  A little TOO well, I've found that I can't get the joints apart in the sections I'm trying to salvage without destroying one side or the other.  I've given up on trying to salvage the fittings and now I'm just trying to salvage the pieces of ducting.

As promised, I took a couple of pictures last night of what I've got accomplished to this point.  This is a shot of the DC fan mounted to the wall.  The house was built in the 1890's and the brick is kind of soft so instead of anchors into the brick, I've got threaded rod running through the entire wall, I don't think this stuff will go anywhere.  Above the fan is where the DC final filter box will live.




The next shot is another view of the fan with a better angle on the type of fittings I'll use and their and adapters.  Left to right it's a long radius 90°, a long radius 45°, and a sweep tee.  I've also got a piece of the 4" snap duct shoved into the tee.





The next shot shows where the DC fan inlet duct will live, behind the 6" 90° in the corner between the wall and the cabinet.





I guess I've got a hook and several screws that will need to go away before that can happen.

Don


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## awake (May 6, 2021)

Very cool. What is the red substance on the PVC fittings? That doesn't look like a PVC cement to me, but I'm drawing a blank on what else it might be ... ?


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## ddmckee54 (May 6, 2021)

Andy:

The PVC cement is the orange stuff that you can see in a couple of the fittings.  The red bands are the 3D printed adapters, I guess it'd probably be more accurate to call them bushings.  They adapt the PVC fitting from the 4.2" ID of the fitting to the 4.05"(ish) OD of the sheetmetal snap duct. 

The ducts aren't exactly what you'd call round, or consistent - they varied from under 3.9" to about 4.1".  I figured that 4.05" was probably close enough since it was supposed to be 4" duct, and it turns out that it was. 

Don


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## awake (May 6, 2021)

Ah, got it. You had talked about adapting the one to the other, but in my head I was thinking you had printed up a whole separate fitting. Far more efficient to print up the "bushing" instead! (Let's see - how long would it take to print half-a-dozen ~4" diameter, 6" long 22.5°, 45°, or 90° sweep fittings?? Yeah, might be a wee bit slower than printing up a half-dozen bushings!)


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## ddmckee54 (May 6, 2021)

Actually it was a few more than that, so far I've printed 16 bushings.  There's three 45's at 2 bushes per fitting, two 90's at 2 bushes per fitting, and two tees at 3 bushes per fitting.  That just counts the main line, the branch that will go to the CNC router, and the branch that will go to the drill press/1" belt sander/bandsaw.  I'm installing the sweep tee that will eventually go to the branch line for the tablesaw and radial arm saw.  But I'll just cap it off until I figure out a good way of getting things hooked up.  I haven't got a good picture in my head yet of how I want to hook things up.

Although I'm seriously considering just selling the radial arm, since I rarely use it for anything other than a horizontal storage location.  The sliding miter saw will do just about everthing the radial arm does, and in less space.

Edit:  i just realized that it MIGHT not hurt to put a coupling or two in there someplace in the DC lines.  Just in case I have to take part of it out to work on something else.  I DO have to dodge around the sewer line to the downstairs bathroom after all.  That line is just visible in above the DC cyclone in one of the previous posts.


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## awake (May 7, 2021)

ddmckee54 said:


> Although I'm seriously considering just selling the radial arm, since I rarely use it for anything other than a horizontal storage location.  The sliding miter saw will do just about everthing the radial arm does, and in less space.



In my experience, the best way to establish the essential need for any tool is to get rid of it.


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## ddmckee54 (May 7, 2021)

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why it's still sitting in my shop....  That and the fact that I can use the same dado blade set on both it and the tablesaw.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (May 10, 2021)

I got some more done over the weekend, along with a lot more yardwork than I had planned on doing.  I've got an old black locust tree behind my garage and sometime during the high winds we had over the last 1-1/2 weeks it dropped a 4" limb in my yard.  After the derecho last year I had an evergreen tree that was leaning towards my house taken down and the dead limbs in the locust trimmed.  I've still got to get that limb hauled to the compost pile, I just picked up the pieces and threw them to the side so I could get the lawn mowed.

I was looking at the ceiling in the shop, plottin & coniving how I was going to fit the DC ducts in place, when I had a brain-fart.  I realized that if I moved the radial arm from its' location on the West wall, to in front of the chimney on the North wall, it would make it MUCH easier to cut longer pieces of wood.  The door is on the East wall and if needed a long piece could just stick out through the door.  This new location means the table-saw and the radial-arm saw can share the same DC branch, and I'll just plug in whichever saw I'm using.

I did get one piece of 4" duct hung temporarily in place.  I lined it up with the inlet to the DC but I've got to move it at least an inch or two to the West, as it currently interferes with the gas-line to the water heater.

I'm gonna hafta move 2 of the shop lights too, but that's no big deal.  I had already planned on moving one of them to a location more or less directly over where the CNC router will live.  Right now I'm thinking whoever the genius was that thought this was a good location for the DC should have his head examined.  Oh well, it'll be nice when it's done.

One of my couplings for the DC airlock rotor shaft was delivered.  This one is a solid 5mm x 8mm coupling, I couldn't get a 6mm x 8mm coupling on this side of the pond.  So I went with a 5 x 8 and just bored the 5mm out to 6mm-(ish).  I didn't have a 6mm drill, 0.236" & change, but I did have a new 15/64" drill that was 0.234" & change.  Turns out that was close-enough, because the coupling fits the gearmotor shaft like a glove.  The 6mm x 8mm flex coupling that I ordered, before I realized that it had to come from China, is still on the slow-boat.  It's not due to get here for another 2-4 weeks, and it may very well just go on the shelf when it gets here..

Don


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## ddmckee54 (May 14, 2021)

No progress for a while, gas water heater doesn't.  Been working on getting it heating again, parts on order.


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## awake (May 16, 2021)

So annoying when unimportant things like having hot water interfere with the important things like hobbies ... as I know all too well!


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## ddmckee54 (May 20, 2021)

I got the water heater working, it's supplying me with hot water again.

Last night I got a little more accomplished on the dust collector.  Mostly what I got done was discovering that I am in dire need of 1/8"x1/8" pop rivets for the sheet matal to sheet metal joints, I only had about 5-6.  I'm also in need of the sheet metal screws for the sheet metal to plastic joints.  I will take care of those defficiencies on the way home tonight.  Last night I also printed out a 4" flange and there's another on the printer now.  So I'll either have a finished flange waiting for me when I get home - or a mess if the printer screwed up.  Those flanges will allow me to take apart the duct-work when needed - without having to resort to a sawzall.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Jun 16, 2021)

This one is going to get put on the back burner for a while, other stuff to do and I got a new to me toy - a 1976 International Harvestor built Cub Cadet 1000.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Dec 17, 2021)

OK, the mowing season is past and the snowing season is upon us, so I have been doing a little more work on the dust collector in my shop.

I now have the dust collector fan connected to the dust collector discharge.  But I don't have any of the joints in the ductwork sealed yet.  I couldn't resist firing up the fan, strictly to check the airflow of course - made a HELLUVA racket.  I pulled the fan out of the housing, and it turned out that *SOMEBODY* had left a loose nut in the fan housing - I don't know who did that!  Once that was removed and the fan re-installed, it was tested again - ya gotta check for noise and vibration dontchaknow.  Even without the final filter, the fan is MUCH quieter than its' predecessor.

I've still got to figure out what I'm going to use for a final filter.  Last time I used the air filter for an '89 Aerostar with a 3 liter V-6.  When I first built these dust collectors I was driving my less than 5 years old, purchased brand new when I got out of college,  3L V-6 '89 Aerostar - I should probably choose something a little more up to date this time.  The way I figure it, a 3L four stroke engine will inhale 3L every 2 revs.  The air filter has got to be able to work at the red-line rpm, and if that red-line is 6000 rpm than the engine will inhale 9000 liters per minute at 6000 rpm.  Or about 635 cfm if you live on my side of the pond.  My DC fan is rated at 600 cfm, so I'll probably get an air filter for at least a 4 or 5 liter engine.  That should make things breathe a little easier.

As far as the inlet ducting goes.....
I'm working my way out from the dust collector.  I'm currently dodging my way around both a 4" cast iron sewer line, and a 3/4" gas line.  Once past those obstructions it'll be mostly clear sailing, until I start coming down the walls to get to the connections for the machines.  Once I get some more of the ducting in place I'll take some pictures.  Right now it's just a piece of ducting hanging here and there - so I can get some accurate measurements.  That's one of the advantages of my day-job, I get to see how the pro's do this stuff so I don't have to re-invent the wheel.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Dec 17, 2021)

Andy:

I just looked back through this thread and saw that I never answered your question about static build-up.  Sorry about that!

Yes, I am dealing with static buildup.  The majority of my ducting will be 4" snap-lock metal ducting, which will be electrically grounded.  Where the metal ducting goes through a plastic fitting, I will electrically bond the two sections together by installing a grounding wire between them.  All of the duct sections will be connected to my house ground, so static build-up should be minimal.

From what I have read in the various wood-working mags, if you want to run all plastic ducting they recommend either a grounded bare copper conductor inside the duct, or a grounded insulated conductor just taped to the outside of the duct.  In the informal tests that they conducted both methods seemed to work well in preventing static build-up.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Dec 23, 2021)

I managed to snake my way around the sewer and the gas line, but I haven't made the final connections or sealed any of the joints yet.  I do have the TEE for the first branch line branch line installed along with the most of the branch line that will be shared by the radial arm saw and the table saw.  

I've also got the next section of duct that will go to the second TEE, with one branch for the CNC router, the other branch will split off into 3" lines to the drill press, the band saw and an as yet undecided "spare" branch.

Each branch wll have its' own blast gate.  Since I can only use one device at a time, my 600 cfm blower will be more than good enough.  This system is in NO WAY designed for optimum air flow, but it will be sufficient for my purposes.

I'll need three 4" blast gates and three 3" blast gates.  I've got the 4" blast gates already built, made them when I originally installed the system at my other house years ago.  But I'll need to make some 3" gates, I'll probably just make new slides for all the gates.  The 4" slides were made out of 1/8" masonite, and one of them got cracked over the years.  It still works, but not very well.  I think I will need to build at least 5 more hangers for 4" ducting, I started 6 of them last night - never hurts to have a spare.

No pictures yet, but the above ACTUALLY did happen - swear to God.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Dec 24, 2021)

Not much accomplished in the last day or two, I need to print out more of the 4" PVC to 4" Snap-lock bushiings, but my printer crapped out - about a week ago.  

My printer is a Wanhao D6 clone with a Monoprice badge, and they are well known for their relay issues.  They have a 10A relay that switches the entire 24VDC load.  The problem is that when both the bed heater and the hot end heater are on, that load is over 12A.  That relay is gonna fail, it's not a matter of IF it'll fail, it's WHEN will it fail.  I started getting the heater failure error messages, so I figured it had finally puked.

No problem, about a year ago I was having a similar problem so I got a spare motherboard - which didn't come cheap.  At the time it cost me about $125-$150, and that was on Aliexpress - Monoprice wanted double that.  Anywho... I carefully, I thought, plugged in the spare board and tried the printer.  I had heat so I thought I was golden, I homed the print head and it worked OK.  I lowered the build-plate and it went down, just like it was supposed to.  When I tried raising the build-plate, IT WENT DOWN - and I got a Z limit stuck error message.  Something like "What the fudge?" was heard echoing through my house that night.

About this time the devil on my shoulder pulled the trigger on a new printer, he went bigger.  I've got a 300x300x400mm print volume Monoprice MP10 on the way, it'll be here next week.

The idiot on my other shoulder kept asking "Can't we just fix this one?"  My first thought was wondering whether or not my Aliexpress Wanhao D6 Clone motherboard was actually any good?  At the same time that I got the replacement motherboard, I had also found a replacement for the 10A relay, it's a 20A relay with the same foot-print as that $2 cheap-a** POS 10A relay.

PLAN - B? (Who's counting anyway?)
I decided to replace the relay on my original motherboard and see if I could get my printer moving again.  After I had replaced the relay, I decided that I really needed to trace out all the leads to be sure I had them plugged into the correct socket.  There was one lead that I had my doubts about, the lead in question was a 2 conductor red/black, siamesed, twin lead that went into a 2 pin JST connector.  My options for connecting this guy were a socket clearly labeled GND, or a socket labeled fan.  When I first replaced the motherboard this was the last one that I changed, and being the Wylie Coyote type super genius that I am, I didn't take a picture of the original motherboard connections.

For PLAN B I decided to trace out all the leads, everyhing EXCEPT that red/black lead checked out.  Go ahead, guess where it went, talk among yourselves - I'll wait.

That particular red/black 2 conductor wire, that at first glance looked like it went to the fan, actually had both leads stripped and crimped into a common eyelet.  That eylet was then bolted to the printer's metal frame, under one of the stand-offs for the motherboard - the stand-off is right next to the fan by the way.  RED and BLACK, apparently Wanhao isn't real big on following any type of color convention for ground wires.

Oh-well, with the original motherboard repaired, and the offending lead plugged into the correct loacation, I was once again able to get my printer moving - in ALL the right directions.  I tried printing a 20mm test cube and got about 1/3 of the way through it before the printer puked with the heater error again.

The most likely suspect now is the power supply.  Its' replacement will get here next week - probably about the same time as the new printer.

To add insult to injury, I just got another replacement motherboard and another replacement contol board off Ebay - I only paid 70 bucks for both them.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Dec 28, 2021)

OK, picture time!

This first shot shows the congestion around the dust collector.  Not only did the main line to the dust colllector have to duck under a 4" sewer line, it had to miss a 1" gas line, leave room for the 4" duct to the dust collector fan inlet, and do all of that the while keeping enough room to open the door to the shop.  I think I've got about 2" of clearance above the door and that's more clearance than I've got anywhere else.






This is what's hiding behind Door #1.  I've still got to make a final filter for the fan, but there's PLENTY of room for that below the cabinet and above the fan.




As you can see, the fan inlet duct does tuck behind the dust collector inlet qiuite nicely, it's almose like I planned it that way.

This is the branch that will serve the radial arm saw, the table saw, and probably my sanding cart - that's another work in progress.  The radial arm saw will be plumbed in permanently while the table saw and sanding cart will share a 3" connection.  When I first installed this system I found some relatively cheap 3" RV sewer quick connections that work remarkably well, and a 3" self storing RV waste line could be had for a LOT less that a 3" dust collection hose.  I'm using real live dust collection hose now though - there's a lot less airflow losses over the corrugations in dust collection hose.




The wooden chute I think was a laundry chute at one time.  It runs all the way from the attic down to the basement.  I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it, it'd be more of a hastle to remove than it's worth.

This shows the branch that will eventually go to the CNC router, the drill press, the band saw, and a 1" belt sander.




It's a bad picture, but it's the best I've got - I didn't realize it was that dark.  A Tee will be installed about where the corner of the light is at the bottom of the picture.  One side of the TEE will go down to the CNC router.   Where the 2 hangers are installed will be the branch that goes to the drill press, etc.

I told ya I'd been working on this.  Almost everything that you see in these pictures is permanently installed and the joints have been sealed.

Don


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## awake (Dec 28, 2021)

ddmckee54 said:


> The wooden chute I think was a laundry chute at one time.  It runs all the way from the attic down to the basement.  I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it, it'd be more of a hastle to remove than it's worth.



Seems obvious to me - this is clearly a sign that you need to expand your shop into the upper floors of the house, using that chute to route the dust collection!


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## ddmckee54 (Dec 28, 2021)

awake said:


> Seems obvious to me - this is clearly a sign that you need to expand your shop into the upper floors of the house, using that chute to route the dust collection!



I'll keep that in mind, but the "cleaner" side of the shop will be on the other side of Door #1.  That'll be the side where the machine tools will live - out of the dust.  

That laundry chute was probably the Bees Knees in the 1890's when the house was built.

Don


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## awake (Dec 28, 2021)

1890! Is it timber-framed, by any chance?


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## ddmckee54 (Dec 29, 2021)

Timber framed - I should be so lucky.

Nope, it's stick framed with a brick veneer on the 1st floor and stucco on the 2nd floor.  (Somebody before me painted the brick, I did *NOT* commit _that_ sin.)  There are 9 foot ceilings on the 1st floor and 8 foot on the 2nd floor.  It's got the oddest stairs that I've ever seen.  Halfway up there's a landing and the stairs turn 90°.  There's a doorway on the landing that leads to a set of winding stairs that go down the the kitchen.  Off the kitchen there's a butler's pantry that leads to the dining room through a swinging door.

The house has a LOT of character and just needs a lot of TLC.  It'll get there, a little bit at a time.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 6, 2022)

I need to print some more of the 4" PVC Sewer line to 4" Snap-lock duct adapters, but I've got printer problems.

My D6 decided to pitch a fit, shutting down, and kept giving me the heater error message.  I've been expecting that to happen and had spare parts on hand.  I've detailed those repairs in my Monoprice printer problems thread.

The bottom line is that I bought a new MP10 whch has a slightly larger print volume, 300x300x400mm as opposed to 200x200x175mm for the D6.  I'm still getting the print characteristics dialed in for it, but I'm close.

I use Simplify3D as my slicer and they don't have a profile for the MP10.  I've found references to several profiles in Simplfy that are supposed to work.  However when I tried them it kept printing 20x20x10mm-ish cubes instead of 20mm cubes.  I decided to go old school and modify the steps/mm using the M92 command to calibrate the printer.  On my last print I was within a couple of hundredths of a mm in X&Y, but only within a couple of tenths of a mm in Z.  I'm going to call X&Y "crose enuf".  I could spend days/weeks going down that rabbit hole tyring to get them spot on.  Z is still too far out for me, but I'm still getting an elephant's foot on the print so I don't have the MP10's Z offset from home dialed in correctly.  This would affect the Z dimension of the 20mm cube.  It might help if I get out the feeler gages and measure the damned offset, instead of just trying to tweak the offset up or down like I have been.

I also just got the replacement power supply for the D6...  yesterday, don't remember.  So, when I get a chance to install that I'll be closer to having 2 working printers.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 14, 2022)

Both printers are running, not completely calibrated yet, but running.  I've been printing out 4" adapter rings on the D6.  I initially had some ring OD size issues with the D6, but I just said screw it and tweaked the CAD model to make them work.  I've printed enough adapters that I can get the 4" line on the ceiling installed, and the various branches partway down the walls.  By the end of the weekend I should have all of the duct installed at the ceiling level.  I've only got 5 more of the 4" adapters to print for the new 4" blast gates that I'm building.

Between the printer issues, and the heating boiler deciding that it was going out on strike, progress on this project has been slow.  Negotiations with the boiler were tough, it wanted a new thermostat, a new control board, and 3 new circulating pumps.  Management finally talked it down to a new thermostat, a new boiler control board, 1 new pump and rebuilding 2 used pumps for use as spares.  Some of this stuff may not actually have NEEDED to be replaced, like the pump for instance, but this is the boiler's 13th year in service, so I figured most of this sutff was due.  Luckily, a couple of years ago I had another boiler problem and decided at that time to buy enough spares to be able to almost completely rebuild the boiler.   The boiler spares bin took a major hit and needs to be re-stocked,

Don


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## awake (Jan 14, 2022)

Glad to hear that you got the old printer working again, as well as the new. With two printers, you can print twice as fast!


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 17, 2022)

awake said:


> With two printers, you can print twice as fast!



Being a firm believer that Murphy was an optimist, it's more likely that I'll print twice as many bad parts in the same length of time.  It is nice however to be able to have a long term print running on one printer, while cranking out smaller parts on the other printer. 

I got both printers calibrated, at least they're close enough to calibrated, and I started cranking out parts.  I was able to print the 4" to 3" offset transition piece for the dust collector branch to the drill press area on the D6  and other parts on the MP10.  That transition was a 14 hour print on the D6, and at the same time I printed parts on the MP10 to mount the components inside the dust collector airlock control panel.

I'm getting real close to having a functioning dust collector.  The branch to the radial arm/tablesaw is complete down to the blast-gates.  The branches to the CNC router and the drill press area are laid out and have their mounting brackets installed on the ceiling.  I need to make another 4-6 of the 4" mounting brackets, and make at least 6 of the 3" mounting brackets, then I'll be able to complete those branches down to the blast-gates.

I've gotten started on building the three 4" blast gates that I'll need.  But I havent started on the 3" blast gates yet, I'll also need three of them.  Once the blast-gates are in place, all of the extra holes on the dust collection system will be plugged and I can actually start using it.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 21, 2022)

Last night I got the last of the 4" mounting brackets made.  With luck this weekend I can get the 3" mounting brackets made and maybe even some of the blast gates.  Or at least get the branches headed down the walls.  I *really* want to get the dust collection to the saws, even if I have to cover the rest of the openings with 200mph DUCK duct tape.  They can really make a mess of the rest of the shop, don't even get me started on the belt sander.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 25, 2022)

I actually did get a fair amount acccomplished this weekend, even if a lot of it was just clearing snow.  I also found my laser level and used it to get the main dust collector duct reasonably straight.

This is the dust collector branch that will service the radial arm saw or the table saw, just not both at once.  Pay no attention to the kink in the line, that was intentional!  It was to miss the laundry chute - that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!  With the exception of the TEE, it's all sealed up ready for the blast-gates to be built and installed.





This must have been a HELLUVA house in its' heyday.  Who installs plaster ceilings in the basement, let alone in the boiler room?  You can tell by the markings on the joists where the lath and plaster were.  Even the ceiling in the coal bunker was plastered.  The door that used to go into the coal bunker was located about where the DC branch to the CNC router is at now.

This is the main line running to the CNC router, the drill press, the band saw and whatever.  (Or at least where the router will be located.)




The main line is all sealed up with the exception of the TEE to the CNC router.  The red doo-hickey in the middle of the picture is the 14 hour 3D printed 4" to 3" offset transition.  The offset transition keeps the back of the 4" duct, and the back of the 3" duct, the same distance away from the wall.

That invisible duct, the one that should be between the TEE and the ELL at the top of the picture will be the connection to the CNC router which will sit in the lower left corner of the picture.  The branch to the drill press/band saw/whatever is just starting to work its' way under the window.

Installing that invisible duct and sealing up those remaining joints will complete the work at the ceiling level.  When it's "BABY IT'S COLD OUTSIDE" weather, and you''re working 18" away from a radiant floor heating system, it doesn't take too long to work up a sweat.

Don


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## awake (Jan 25, 2022)

When things start getting kinky with your dust collector, I'm not sure "Baby It's Cold Outside" is the right song ...


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 25, 2022)

Yeah, well... Then you're gonna love this one.  When I was installing the duct between the TEE and the ELL down to the drill press I came up short, about 1-1/2" short.  Somebody, who shall remain nameless to protect the ignorant, measured to the face to the ELL, then forgot to add the 1-1/2" that projects INTO the ELL.  I didn't want to waste the duct so I was able to cheat each of the 3 joints involved it this disaster by 1/2" and still have 1" of duct in each of the the fittings.  That's all the longer that my adapter rings are, so it really doesn't make any difference support-wise.  The duct is supported by mounting brackets, and the joints are all screwed together then sealed with aluminum HVAC tape - so I doubt that anything will move.  I won't tell anybody about it if you won't.


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 26, 2022)

I did manage to get the invisible duct installed last night, and I replaced the duct that runs down to the CNC router.  The one in the picture was just temporary to get the position of the ELL correct.  That temporary duct was cobbled together out of shorter pieces of 4" duct.

While trying to install the last duct clamp on the ceiling I also managed to fall off the damned step ladder.  I only fell a couple of feet though, so it wans't too bad.  In the process of doing that I managed to collect a nice bruise on the heel of my left hand, or whatever that meaty part under you thumb is called.  I also bruised my pride, got a shallow cut in the palm of my left hand from the plumbers strapping that I was TRYING to install, and scraped a good sized hunk of hide off my left arm when it collided with the belt sander on the way down.  This knocked the belt sander off its' stand in the process.  (Good thing I'm right handed becasuse I'm developing an impressive bruise on my left hand.)

At this point I decided to call it a night and went upstairs to clean up the blood and assess the damages, which were all minor - but impressive from the amount of blood.  Many, many, many moons ago -  my old auto mechanics instructor always used to tell us that if it doesn't draw blood then it's not a good overhaul or install.  This is a GOOD install.

Don


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## awake (Jan 26, 2022)

I rarely spend time in the workshop / garage without making a blood sacrifice ...  And I too have fallen off just a short step ladder - it is amazing how much kinetic energy one gains by being two feet in the air.


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 26, 2022)

Yup, gravity sucks alright.


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 27, 2022)

I returned to the scene of the crime last night... and among other things did a root cause analysis of the incident.

I determined that I didn't slip off the step-ladder, the step-ladder slipped out from under me.

Semantics you say - au contaire Peirre.  Let me set up the conditions for you.  The strap that I needed to install was over the back of the workbench, couldn't quite see the hole to get the screw started.  About that time the little voice in my head said "Let's just stand on the bench", and the other little voice said "That's a BAAAD idea", to which the 1st voice said "NAAAH, it'll be fine".  The ladder was positioned parallel to the bench, so that I was getting off the ladder - sideways.  Ya'll know what happened,  Don't EVER listen to the voice that says it'll be fine - he's a troublemaker.

Anyway... I finally got that troublesome strap installed, along with all the screws that secure the ducts to the TEE's and the ELL's.  About this time my left arm and hand were telling me that they'd had enough of this crap for one night.  And I listened to them, I'm learning.  Maybe tonight I can get the rest of the joints sealed up and be done with the work at the ceiling level.

Don


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## awake (Jan 28, 2022)

So it wasn't your fault ... except that it was. 

When I fell off a 2' step ladder, it was a very old step ladder with some of the wood broken away. Still good enough, I thought ... apparently not.


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## ddmckee54 (Jan 31, 2022)

Andy, 20/20 hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

The work at ceiling height is ALMOST done!  All the ducting is in place, and all the joints are sealed.  All that's left to do is to pick up some 1/4"-20 bolts that are the correct length to bolt the flanges together.  I've got a couple of bolts in place now to keep things lined up, but they're too long.  I just keep forgetting to pick the correct length bolts when I'm out and about.  I've got a couple of other errands to take care of tonight, MAYBE I'll remember to get the bolts this time.

I continued work on the 3" branch line to the drill press area.  You are NOT going to see any pictures of that area until after I've done some serious cleaning.  All the horizontal surfaces in my shop tend to accumulate STUFF, especially if I'm trying to get some other higher priority project done at the time.  It's a bad habit that I'm TRYING to break - but only with limited success so far.  50-60 years of practice dontchaknow.  Then again, maybe it's genetic - my Dad's shop always looked that way too.

This is the first time that I've made a SERIOUS effort at trying to organize the shop.  Maybe this clean and organize idea will stick this time.  It IS easier to find stuff if it's put back where it belongs, instead of being left wherever you used it last.


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## awake (Feb 1, 2022)

Hah. Since the brunt of my fall occurred on my hind end, "hind sight" might be all too apropos!

And accumulation - very familiar with that. I do have a pretty well organized shop (have to, to fit everything into the space available), but when I'm mid-project, things tend to accumulate everywhere. Then they all get cleaned up and put back, ready to spread out again when the next project gets going ...


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 2, 2022)

Last night I started going through some of the "accumulation" of stuff on that bench.  It was a pile of fittings that I had purchased for this project.  They had been scattered over the various flat surfaces in the shop, until I tossed them all into one pile.  Probably because I needed to stand on that flat surface?

I found several 4" PVC 45° ELLS , 4 of them actually, that I had purchased and modified for this project.  But apparently I couldn't find them when I needed them so I bought more and installed those parts.  Anybody want some slightly modified 4" PVC 45° sewer ELLs?

I also found a lot of 4" snaplock duct parts that I purchased early in this project, and then had a "better" idea.  I might be able to use them somewhere... someday... maybe?

Anyway, the bench is a LOT cleaner now, and I haven't even actually cleaned it yet.


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 3, 2022)

Last night I got the remainder of the parts needed to install the branch lines down to the blast gates.  Including the 1/4"-20 bolts of the correct lengths that I didn't have - so I finally bolted the flanges together.  (Including washers and nylocks - nuthin' but the best fer this project!)

I started printing out the 3" adapter rings Tuesday night as I went to bed, it was 4 hours to print 4 of them.  The next morning I started printing the last 4 of the 8 rings required.  Guess what didn't fit, WAY too small, so I aborted the second batch.  When I checked the size of the CAD part it was right, but SOME dumbass forgot to scale the part to 103% to allow for shirnkage.  OK, scale the part and print ONE as a sanity check.  I aborted the print after a few mm, I didn't want to wait for the whole part if it was still wrong.  It was a LOT closer, but still too small.  After measuring the ring I determined that I needed to scale the part 104.5%.  So that's what I did and then started a batch of 3 in the printer.

I checked them and since they were spot on, I then turned the printer loose on the next batch of 3.  The first batch got glued in last night before I went to bed.  When I got up this morning the next batch was done.  I started the printer on the last batch of rings before I left for work,  they'll be done when I get home.

Now that I've got all the parts, I'll be able to complete the dust collector branch line to the drill press and other stuff.  At least complete it down to the blast gates, I've yet to make the blast gates.  I need three of each size, both the 4" gates and the 3" gates.  I've got three of the *4" Blast Gate v1.0* laying around.  They worked, but they had issues.  Mainly the slides were too tight and sticky, and they kept accumulating sawdust in the corners of the gate slide.  The sawdust would keep the gate from completely closing, so I gotta fix that.  For something that I fabri-cobbled together, out of scraps that I had laying around, they worked pretty well.  But I think I can do better this time around.


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 8, 2022)

I got a little bit more accomplished over the weekend. but not too much.  I now have all of the dust collector branch lines complete up tp the point where the blast gates will be installed.  This was the last of them, and they all have the joints sealed now too.





This is the brach that will service the drill press and other stuff.  I have been doing some cleaning in this area, that's why I willing to show it to you.  The mess that is left is your typical construction type mess.   All of the 3" PVC sewer fittings that you see required 3D printed adapter bushings to go from the OD of the 3" snaplock duct to the ID of the 3" PVC fittings.

In the bottom center of the picture is one of the 4" Blast Gates, ver 1.0.  I've got a couple of half-vast ideas for the ver 2.0 blast gate, but haven't come up with anything yet that really jumps off the screen, smacks you up-side the head and says "Build me Dummy".  I'm pretty sure that the 3" blast gate will involve some printed parts, maybe the 4" too, but like I said, no "Eureka" moments yet.

Don


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## awake (Feb 8, 2022)

Looks good! Feel free to come and set up my garage next.


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 8, 2022)

Sure, I"ll pencil it into the schedule.  Right after I get the stuff in my yet to be built garage done - priorities dontchaknow.


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## awake (Feb 8, 2022)

I don't know what the problem is. I keep suggesting to people on this forum that they can send me their machines, build me a shop, buy me tooling ... and no one ever takes me up on it. Sigh ...


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## ajoeiam (Feb 9, 2022)

awake said:


> I don't know what the problem is. I keep suggesting to people on this forum that they can send me their machines, build me a shop, buy me tooling ... and no one ever takes me up on it. Sigh ...


But but but I'm ahead of you on that list (shops built and tooled)  - - - - (LOL)

(If only - - - if only!)


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## awake (Feb 9, 2022)

ajoeiam said:


> But but but I'm ahead of you on that list (shops built and tooled)  - - - - (LOL)
> 
> (If only - - - if only!)


Aha! There must be someone else ahead of us both, who is getting all the goodies. Okay, folks, 'fess up - who is hogging all of the freebies?


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 9, 2022)

Nope, you're both wrong.  It's not your positions on "*The List*" that's the problem, it's the shipping of the tools/tooling.  To quote Peter O'Toole from the movie High Spirits, "The postage alone is mind-boggling". 

Besides if it's our standing standing on the list... I'm pretty sure "*The List*" goes by join date and BOTH you guys are way behind me.  I haven't seen squat yet, so you guys are just SOL.  "*The List*" must be some kind of pyramid scheme, who do we complain to?


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## ajoeiam (Feb 10, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> Nope, you're both wrong.  It's not your positions on "*The List*" that's the problem, it's the shipping of the tools/tooling.  To quote Peter O'Toole from the movie High Spirits, "The postage alone is mind-boggling".
> 
> Besides if it's our standing standing on the list... I'm pretty sure "*The List*" goes by join date and BOTH you guys are way behind me.  I haven't seen squat yet, so you guys are just SOL.  "*The List*" must be some kind of pyramid scheme, who do we complain to?


Well - - - my mom is dead - - - - do you have any better options? (LOL!!!) 
I'd bet nobody is listening so there isn't anybody who cares and so somebody - - - well he went home blubbering (LOL!!!)!


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 10, 2022)

Maybe we should all just hope that when this endless postal strike is over, we'll ALL get a bunch of goodies in the mail?


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## awake (Feb 10, 2022)

Hmm, good thought - there must be thousands of packages of tooling lost in the system. How do I sign up to receive my share?

Now, back to the original topic ... uh ... what were we talking about before going down this rabbit hole??


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## ajoeiam (Feb 11, 2022)

awake said:


> Hmm, good thought - there must be thousands of packages of tooling lost in the system. How do I sign up to receive my share?
> 
> Now, back to the original topic ... uh ... what were we talking about before going down this rabbit hole??


Hmmmmmmm - - - you're not 'enjoying' this rabbit hole?

I thought there were a few fun moments. 

(Between the absolutely goofy weather and a bunch of other 'goofy' stuff  - - - it was good to find some chuckles that weren't the rueful kind! But I feed the digression - - - - down boy down boy - - - bad boy!!! (LOL))


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 11, 2022)

Well, regarding this diversion down the rabbit hole...

As far as I know I haven't been struck by any brilliant ideas yet regarding the blast gate re-design.  I'm hoping inspiration will strike over the weekend?  How hard can it be, it's just something that covers a hole after all...   If there are no Euraka moments by Sunday, then I'll just fumble along with Blast Gates ver1-Mk1.  Something sorta crappy is better than nothing at all - anything to end this work-stoppage and get the project moving again.


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## awake (Feb 11, 2022)

ajoeiam said:


> Hmmmmmmm - - - you're not 'enjoying' this rabbit hole?
> 
> I thought there were a few fun moments.
> 
> (Between the absolutely goofy weather and a bunch of other 'goofy' stuff  - - - it was good to find some chuckles that weren't the rueful kind! But I feed the digression - - - - down boy down boy - - - bad boy!!! (LOL))


Always! But I was trying to be respectful of the original topic. It would really "suck" if we didn't return to the topic of dust collection!


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## awake (Feb 11, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> Well, regarding this diversion down the rabbit hole...
> 
> As far as I know I haven't been struck by any brilliant ideas yet regarding the blast gate re-design.  I'm hoping inspiration will strike over the weekend?  How hard can it be, it's just something that covers a hole after all...   If there are no Euraka moments by Sunday, then I'll just fumble along with Blast Gates ver1-Mk1.  Something sorta crappy is better than nothing at all - anything to end this work-stoppage and get the project moving again.



I have given some thought to it, but also no brilliant insights. It seems to me to be a tradeoff between sealing and ease of movement. The furthest I've gotten in my thinking is whether the gate could have tapered sides, fitting into rubber (or TPU) seals - the tapered sides would let it not have the friction of the TPU until it seats. But that still leaves one side unsealed.


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## ajoeiam (Feb 11, 2022)

awake said:


> I have given some thought to it, but also no brilliant insights. It seems to me to be a tradeoff between sealing and ease of movement. The furthest I've gotten in my thinking is whether the gate could have tapered sides, fitting into rubber (or TPU) seals - the tapered sides would let it not have the friction of the TPU until it seats. But that still leaves one side unsealed.



Well - - - - I need some pics so I can understand the item and its needs.
Then - - - what works well and what doesn't work well.
Then  - - - what has been tried.
Then - - - now there would be enough information that I think we could help our buddy!

So - - - to the OP - - - - your turn.

(I need the info because although I think I understand what's going on that's NOT a good starting point to come up with a fix. 
Now - - - if we can come up with something good - - - then maybe this list is showing it real value. (Not that I don't like those pictures of that wonderful stuff some guys are making!!!!))


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## awake (Feb 11, 2022)

Here's the basic idea of a DC blast gate: Rockler 4'' StableGate™ Blast Gate


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 11, 2022)

If you look back to Post #70, in the bottom of the picture just to the right of center, you will see one of the old blast gates.   That image is the only one I've got now.  Here's a cropped picture of the slidegate:





The original slidegates were a collection of scraps - 1/8" Masonite for the slide, 3/8" plywood for the top and bottom, and a 4" Snaploc connector that had been split, with each half being glued and nailed into the plywood.  You can see the metal connector in the picture.  The connector allowed for a relatively easy connection of the blast gate into the duct.

My biggest gripe with these slides was, and still is, that they aren't self cleaning.  Anything that is in front of the slide as it closes has no place to go and eventually starts filling up the slot - keeping the slide from closing completely.  The simple answer is NOT to block off the back of the slide opening.  These gates have the back closed.  The slide itself doesn't need to be airtight, you just don't want it to leak too much.  I thought at the time that opening in the back would be TOO much.  Looking at the numbers, that opening will be about 1/2-3/4 of a square inch.  This is only about 5% of the slide opening.  OK, you talked me into it.  The slide, when closed, will go straight through the gate and be flush with the back.  This will self-clean the slot every time the slide is used.

My next biggest gripe was that damned 4" connector, getting it glued and nailed into the plywood was not an easy task.  Maybe I can 3D print a ring with about a 10mm square cross-section?  I could glue and screw the ring to the plywood, then glue and screw the connector to the ring?  That MIGHT be easier than trying to nail into 3/8" plywood inside of a 3" or 4" opening.  When I made these gates years ago, I nailed the connectors in place first then ran a bead of polyurethane glue around the connector on the outside.  But it NEVER was a very substantial connection.  I need something that's easier and more better,  I've got to make at least three 4" blast gates and three 3" blast gates.


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## ajoeiam (Feb 12, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> If you look back to Post #70, in the bottom of the picture just to the right of center, you will see one of the old blast gates.   That image is the only one I've got now.  Here's a cropped picture of the slidegate:
> View attachment 134010
> 
> The original slidegates were a collection of scraps - 1/8" Masonite for the slide, 3/8" plywood for the top and bottom, and a 4" Snaploc connector that had been split, with each half being glued and nailed into the plywood.  You can see the metal connector in the picture.  The connector allowed for a relatively easy connection of the blast gate into the duct.
> ...



OK 
#1 not self cleaning 
what is the orientation of the slide?
duct is vertical/horizontal - - - what?

#2 not easy to attach ducting 
one of the things I like about metals (grin welding makes for a fairly simple solution and lots of options) 
how often are these gates removed from the ducting?
(for cleaning and/or whatever?


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 14, 2022)

ajoeiam:

In answer to your questions:
1)  All the ducting is vertical through the slide.  This keeps the slides in a horizontal position and also means that some type of a lock to hold the slide in position is not required - usually.
2)  With luck, the gates will NOT have to be removed.   (But they CAN be removed if required.)

Progress update - IT'S ALIVE!!!!
I got all 3 of the 4" blast gates made, and installed, over the weekend.  This crappy, slightly shaky photo is a shot of the radial arm saw in it's new, and hopefully more or less permanent home.  More importantly, it also shows two out of the three 4" blast gates.  One blast gate will be for the radial arm saw, and the other will be for a removable connection that will be shared by the table saw, and an as yet to be completed sanding/grinding station.




Both ends of the slide on the blast gate are open, and the blast gate slides are long enough that when fully closed they protrude about 1/4".  (That's about 6mm for you poor Imperially challanged folk on the other side of the pond.)  This will push any schmootz that accumulates in the slot for the slide out the other end, and TAA-DAA they're self-cleaning.  The top of the blast gate is made up out of 6mm plywood, with a 3D printed ring that is glued and screwed to the plywood.  It's attached to the 4" duct by #6 sheeet metal screws and the joint is then sealed with the aluminum tape you see in the picture.  The bottom of the blast gate is a mirror image of the top, that's the 3D printed red ring that you see in the picture.  A pair of 3mm plywood spacers are glued to the blast gate bottom only, and are the guides/spacers for the slide.  The slides themselves are made out of 2mm acrylic.  (It said it was 0.080", but they're not fooling me!)  The top and the bottom of the blast gates are bolted together with 6-32 machine screws, washers, and Nylock nuts.  That way, if I ever DO need to clean the blast gate, I can drop the bottom half of the gate while the top half remains firmly attached to the duct - Ezee-Peezee.

Laying on top of the radial arm saw's table are several Plano storage containers.  Them and several of their distant cousins made by other companies will old the various, screws, nails, bolts, and other assorted Bits and Bob that I have accumulated over the years.  I'm building a rack to hold these containers in a somewhat organized fashion.  Whille I was cutting some of the parts for this rack, and blowing sawdust all over the shop as usual, I realized that I have a MOSTLY functional dust collection system now.  It's not DONE, but it could be used - NOW.  That led to this little bit of Redneck Injunearring.




While the 4" blast gates are built and installed, the 3" blast gates are still just a gleam in someone's eye.  BUT.... A little blue painter's tape to cover the unused holes, a shop vac hose shoved in the remaining hole, and a rag to stop up the majority of the remaining leak and... Wait for it!

VIOLA, you've got a dust collection connection to the table saw.  Oh sure, the blade still throws some dust around, but for now this gets the majority of the schmootz off the floor and into the dust collector.





See, I TOLD you it works.  This was the result of turning the airlock's hand crank 5-10 revs to empty the cyclone after I was done with the saw.  Just the sawdust, ignore the other crap in the bottom of the bin.

The system still has a LONNNNGGG way to go before it is complete:
1) Build and install the 3" blast gates
2) Install the permanent connections to the drill press, bandsaw, radial arm saw, yadda-yadda-yadda
3) Imagineer the final filter for the dust collector blower
4) Build and install the automatic controls for the dust collector airlock 
But... The system is usable now, and I'm getting close enough to the end of the tunnel that I'm PRETTY sure the light isn't just another train.

Don


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## ajoeiam (Feb 15, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> ajoeiam:
> 
> In answer to your questions:
> 1)  All the ducting is vertical through the slide.  This keeps the slides in a horizontal position and also means that some type of a lock to hold the slide in position is not required - usually.
> ...



OK - - - I'm now quite confused.
You have 4" gates that you are reporting work quite well.
Earlier you wanted to create 3" gates adn expressed some concerns about (IIRC) 3 possible issues.

Why don't you just make the 3" gates like the 4" ones?
They work (your report) - - - don't change what works - - - perfect is the enemy of good - - - I don't like using 'good enough' as that seems to imply barely so which really isn't what I got from your above report.

Just a $0.005 worth from a noisy idjit.


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 15, 2022)

Ajoeiam:

I just made these 4" blast gates over the weekend.  A picture of the original design is shown in Post #86.  The previous incarnation of the 4" blast gates were not open on both ends, the tops/bottoms of those blast gates were not removable, the connection of the blast gate to the duct was dicey at best, and the slides were made of 1/8"masonite.  The guides were 1/8" masonite too, which led to a lot of sanding to get the slides to work properly.

I needed 3 of the 4" blast gates, which are now built and installed, but I also still need 3 of the 3" blast gates.  I have every intention of making the 3" blast gates to be the irritating little brother of the 4" blast gates.  You know, the little brother that copies everything the older brother does?  It's just that SOMEBODY hasn't designed them yet - maybe after I get this fastener storage rack done.  Then, MAYBE I'll actually have some usable bench space to work on.

Don


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## awake (Feb 16, 2022)

Don, I have found that one of the major drawbacks of 3d printing is that, no matter what I do, the printer doesn't seem to be able to understand my desires and print what I want. It seems to insist on me spending time building up the model - go figure!

Sigh. All this time I thought I was getting a Star Trek replicator ...


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 16, 2022)

Yeah, but somebody had to program the replicators too, otherwise you'd probably just jet a steaming pile of ... GOO?

Way back when, I was printing a replacement grill for the RC tracked skid-steer project that I was working on.  The grill came out a 1-2 mm too long.  I re-drew the model, saved it,  and reprinted it, still too long.  I went through several iterations of this before I realized that just because I has saved the 3D CAD file, that DIDN'T mean that I had saved a new STL file for the slicer to work with.  By the time I did figure out what was going on and printed out a new grill, it was 4-5 mm too short.  I think there are still blood stains on the wall from me banging my head against it.

That reminds me, I'll need to re-visit that back burner project one of these days. (It's so far back, I don't think it can even SEE the stove anymore.)  I've had a few ideas for that project that need looking into, space was rather limited and I didn't like the way things were shaping up.


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## ajoeiam (Feb 17, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> Yeah, but somebody had to program the replicators too, otherwise you'd probably just jet a steaming pile of ... GOO?
> 
> Way back when, I was printing a replacement grill for the RC tracked skid-steer project that I was working on.  The grill came out a 1-2 mm too long.  I re-drew the model, saved it,  and reprinted it, still too long.  I went through several iterations of this before I realized that just because I has saved the 3D CAD file, that DIDN'T mean that I had saved a new STL file for the slicer to work with.  By the time I did figure out what was going on and printed out a new grill, it was 4-5 mm too short.  I think there are still blood stains on the wall from me banging my head against it.
> 
> That reminds me, I'll need to re-visit that back burner project one of these days. (It's so far back, I don't think it can even SEE the stove anymore.)  I've had a few ideas for that project that need looking into, space was rather limited and I didn't like the way things were shaping up.



I'm sorry - - - - but this response quite had me rotflmho - - - - thank you. 

(some humor that reminds me of my own foibles (often far worse I think that those being depicted) makes the rough weather and the goofy world situation just a little dimmer!!!)


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## awake (Feb 17, 2022)

Yes, made me laugh (and wince in memory of similar feats of madness) as well!


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 17, 2022)

OK, some progress on the fastener rack was made last night.




This is the rack that, so far, contains the collections of pan-head machine screws, flat-head machine screws, sheet-metal screws, dry-wall screws, wall anchors, and pop-rivets.  I'll probably add another 3-4 shelves for the just-in-case stuff.  The LH side of this rack is screwed to the floor joist and has several wall anchors, but I don't want to put too much weight on this rack.  I've got to get some labels on these cases too.  When I had them stacked on the various horizontal surfaces I could just look through the lid to see what was in the case - not so much anymore without taking them off the shelf.

Once I get done with the top half, I'll start on the heavier duty bottom half which will go right below it:




It will be slightly wider, since those cases are a little bigger, and both sides of this guy will be sitting on the floor as well as being anchored to the wall.  'Cause this guy will hold the nuts, bolts, and washers from 1/4-20's to 1/2-13's.  The LH side will be particle board again, just because I've got some laying around, but the LH side will also have a 2x4 leg attached to the particle board.  The RH side will be the existing 2x6, maybe another 2x4 will be screwed onto the front of that.  (I'll have to check and see how much 6" screws will set me back brefore I can Yay or Nay to that idea.)  Also shown in this picture is the treacherous step ladder, you know the one that ran away while I was on it?

For some reason, and I haven't figured it out yet, but as I build this rack higher and get closer to the ceiling - the more my head sweats.  I suspect that these tubes MIGHT have something to do with it though.  If you really need something to give some scale to the picture, there's 4" verticall between the shelves.




I've got to find the buckets of 1/2" PEX clips that I've got stashed somewhere.  The tubes on the LH side at the top are obviously getting out of control - we can't have THAT now can we.  I suspect that the clips are in the unheated room under the front porch.  I'll have to brave the temperature and go check tonight.  (That or I just pitched them years ago, in which case I'll need to get some more.)

Don


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## awake (Feb 17, 2022)

Looks like the control room in a 1950's rocket - tubes and gauges and valves, oh my!


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 17, 2022)

Nope, just the distribution system for my under floor heating system.  Toasty tooties in the winter are sooooo nice.


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## awake (Feb 17, 2022)

Well, shoot. First we dismantle my dreams of a Star Trek replicator, and now of my Flash Gordon space rocket ...


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 21, 2022)

I got a litle more done on the fastener rack over the weekend.




I'm calling this fastener rack done - for now.  The fasteners I use the most are in this rack and they are actually labeled - now.  The heavier containers live on the bottom half of the rack and the smaller, lighter stuff lives on top.  The containers on the top 2 shelves are empties waiting to be filled with something, as are 2 shelves at the very bottom.

I even whomped up a paper towel holder/dispenser.  So there'll no more searching every horizontal surface looking for the roll of towels.

I also got the unruly PEX tubing a little more under control.  At least until my OCD gets the better of me, I've got the system down/drained, and I straighten up that criss-crossed mess in the corner.  I've lived with it like this for 14 years now, I think I survive with it like this for a little longer.  The original plan was to bolt a cover over the mess, which will probably still done - sooner or later.

I discovered that it's not a good idea the use the dust collector for an extended period without turning the airlock.  Choke-feeding this airlock is NOT a good idea.  It jammed up on me and I had to drop the airlock and clean it out - TWICE.  No doubt about it, making the airlock go roundy-round without ME turning the crank is the next big thing on the agenda.  Actually the next thing on the agenda is to get rid of the Redneck Engineering in the dust collector connection to the tablesaw.  Seemed like everytime I moved the tablesaw the cobbled up hose connection fell apart - I 3D printed that hose adapter last night.

My order of 6-32 flathead machine screws arrived today, so after I get the airlock motor running I can get back to working on the 3" blastgates.  Then it's just a matter of making the permanent connections to the machines and building/installing the final filter, and the dust collection system will be done enough for extended usage.   

Don


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## ajoeiam (Feb 22, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> I got a litle more done on the fastener rack over the weekend.
> View attachment 134396
> 
> 
> ...



I'd like to suggest that your pex piping really isn't  a 'mess'. As it disturbs you I would just cover it - - - carefully mind you - - - don't want issues with the heating 
(I have -41C with the windchill outside this morning so o o I would NOT even dream of compromising anything to do with heating!!!!!!!!!!!).

All these organized shops is helping me work at getting my various work spaces better organized - - - I don't know whether to thank you guys or swear at you - - - LOL!!  (lots of LOL actually!!)


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 22, 2022)

ajoeiam:

My shop has NEVER been this organized before, I *MIGHT* take a picture tonight of what most of the horizontal surfaces in the shop looked like before this little escapade began.

The heating system won't get anything done to it, *that it doesn't need to keep running*, until April or May when it finally shuts down.  I had to replace the boiler controller a month or so ago, it wasn't firing the boiler long enough to get the loop temperaturre over about 105-110°F.  Since then I have had the bad controller repaired and it's on the shelf waiting to be called back into service, along with enough spare parts to almost build a spare boiler.  I learned my lesson a couple of years ago when a sensor went bad on the boiler and no local suppliers had the parts for it, I ordered a boat-load of spares on-line.

I didn't get too much done in the shop last night.  I installed the 3D printed hose adapter for the tablesaw's dust collector connection - no more Redneck Engineering rag stuffed in around the hose to seal the air leak.  I'm not sure if re-use that 3D printed adapter in the final connection to the tablesaw or not.  The connection to the existing dust port on the saw is a 2.25" shop vac hose.  I'd like to build a dust pick-up for the top of the blade, to use when making through cuts.  I'll use a 3" hose to the saw and then split that 3" connection between the existing dust port and the connection to the top of the blade.  That way I'm not starving either port for air.

I also replaced most of the overly long 6-32 screws, that were bolting the tops and bottoms of the slide gates together, with screws of the correct length.  The correct length screws were part of the Monster Bolts order that I just got.  Since I moved the radial arm saw I just can't get my hand between the saw's column, the 4" dust collector duct, and the wall enough to get at last the screw.  I'll have to move the saw to get to that bolt, but this should be the last time that bolt needs to be touched.

Don


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## awake (Feb 22, 2022)

Don, it is true that if a table saw is connected to DC only from the bottom, certain cuts will generate some sawdust on the top. That said, over many years, I have felt that it was not worth the extra bulk / having to work around a hose to put DC in at the top - most of the time, there is nearly nothing at the top, and the few times that there is, it is easy to suck it up with a hose connected to the DC.

Of course, this is what works for me - as always, YMMV!


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 22, 2022)

I need to take a look at the existing dust collection port.  My tablesaw seems to blow a lot of sawdust out of the blade tilt adjustment/lock slot.  At the time I got the saw, it was the cheapest saw that I could find which would still allow the use of my dado blade set.  I was hoping that the top pickup would eliminate that sawdust coming out the front.  Maybe the existing dust pickup just needs a little TLC re-design?  I'll have to turn the saw over and look at it, see what the existing dust pickup looks like, and see what goes where when the blade height/angle is changed.  Just had a Brain-fart and I think I've got a good idea of what's going on - I'll check it out when I get home.


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 23, 2022)

I looked at the bottom side of the tablesaw last night, and the existing duct pretty much encloses the blade all the way up to the bottom of the table.  I had thought that there might have been a gap where the blade was exposed at the front, allowing the blade to fling crap through the tilt adjustment slot - no such luck.  I'll have to think about this for a while.

I've got to do some repair work on a hanging wall cabinet anyway.  I heard something rattling in the cabinet as I closed the door and was wondered what fell over.  I opened the door to check it out when I heard the noise again,  I hadn't heard a sound like that for 60 years.  When I was a kid we lived in an old 2 story farm house.  Every fall we would gather Hickory nuts and spread them out on the attic floor to dry.  One night we heard a noise of something rattling down through the 2nd floor walls.  We eventually figured out that we had some very enterprising mice that were getting into the Hickory nuts and rolling them down into the walls.  A lot of mouse traps in the attic later, and that crap stopped.

One of the anchors that I installed in the rather soft brick blew out the face of the brick, so the cabinet was starting to peel off the wall.  It was chuncks of the brick face rattling down behind the cabinet that I was hearing.  I've temporarily got the cabinet braced/screwed to a floor joist to take some of the load off the anchors.  Don't need that cabinet collapsing like the Arecibo radio telescope did.  A better version of that brace might just become a permanent fixture of the cabinet.  Along with a whole bunch of different wall anchors that go deeper into the brick.


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## awake (Feb 23, 2022)

Yikes - glad you caught the problem in time. It would not have been a good day to come in and see your cabinet and all its contents splattered on the floor!

My table saw is a contractor style, so no good way to close off the back, and no ducting up to the blade. The bottom is closed off, and dust collection (4") comes in at the bottom. Somehow it generates enough suction to pull most of the sawdust down for most of the cutting that I do. Not sure how ...


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 23, 2022)

My tablesaw is a Kobalt contractor saw.  The dust port is sized for a large shop vac hose, I think they are 2.25".  Inside the saw both sides, the front, and the back of the blade are enclosed up to the table.  As near as I can tell, the blade raises and lowers inside this enclosure.  It might be enlightening to take this blade enclosure apart and see how much crap has built up inside of it.

Yup, I think I'll definitely save that light entertainment until sometime AFTER I've got the shop rebuilt/cleaned.

Edit: My dyslexic keyboard had inserted some extra characters, I fixed the boo-boo.


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 24, 2022)

I got the cabinet off the wall last night - wasn't too much of an ordeal.  I emptied the cabinet out and I've REALLY got stuff piled on every horizontal surface now.

When I installed the cabinet I Rednecked it.  I piled crap up until the cabinet would be at about the right height, muscled the cabinet up into place on top of that crap, checked it for level (level enough anyway), then screwed it to the furring strips - it was a PITA.  One of the anchors for the top furring strip is what blew out the face of the brick.

I apparently got smarter in the last few months because this time I didn't try muscling that POS down off the wall.  I got out a couple of C-clamps to use as lifting points, my 2 ton come-along, rigged the cabinet up as best I could, and lowered it in a semi-controlled manner onto the bench.  Because of where the cabinet was located I didn't have a lot of options on how I could rig it to lift the cabinet, a professional rigger would have walked away from my rigging job in disgust.  But I'll do better next time.  That'll be when I lift the cabinet back in place after I fix the blown out anchor.

There's only one anchor that blew out, but there's probably 6-8 others for this cabinet that were installed in the same way.  I'll just replace them all.  Once burned forever shy and all that.

(Edit:  Spelling boo-boos.  Why is it that I can proof-read a post before posting it and everything looks OK, but as soon as I post it I can see all the boo-boos?  It's that damned dyslexic keyboard, *I* know how to spell that crap!)


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 25, 2022)

I REALLY didn't get much done last night.  I started replacing the existing wall anchors, they were the hard plastic, conical anchors that were about 1" long.  Most of the stress on the anchor would have been concentrated on the face of the brick,  There were all that I had at the time.  I switched to a longer, softer plug that's a little over 2" long.  I've used a lot of them on the fastener rack, so I HOPE they work better.  I ran out of these plugs and I still need another 5-6 of them, I'll pick up more on my way home tonight.  I'll definitely have the cabinet back on the wall by the end of the weekend - barring any other catastrophes.

Don


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## awake (Feb 25, 2022)

Would the furring strips lend themselves to some construction adhesive in addition to the physical fasteners?


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 25, 2022)

awake said:


> Would the furring strips lend themselves to some construction adhesive in addition to the physical fasteners?


Easily, and I think I've got at least one tube on the shelf.  I've got to stock up on anchors, and another tube of construction adhesive will ALWAYS come in handy - so I'll get some more of that along with the anchors.  (I should probably be using it more often.)

I'll take the bottom furring strip down and squirt some adhesive in behind it before I put it back up.  I'll add some to the top strip as I put it back in place.  Just the one anchor blew out in the top strip and none in the bottom.  Probably because I heard it, and took the cabinet down before they could all fail - like opening a zipper.  I'll add a couple extra anchors, and some construction adhesive, to the top furring strip before it goes back up.  As one of the Stooges might say, "It won't hoit".


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## ddmckee54 (Feb 28, 2022)

There was a VERY unusual storm in the Manchester area last week.  It was unusual in several ways, its' size, its' location, and its' ferocity.  This storm was very small in that it was confined to one residence, and then only a small part of that residence.  The storm occurred indoors, in the basement - *supposedly* one of the safest portions of a house.  This was a very fierce storm, as evidenced by this photo taken on site last night after the storm subsided.






What's that, you don't see any storm damage?  Well let me edumacate you Bubba, this is what that SW corner of the shop looked like 4 days ago - before the storm.






NOW do you see the storm damage?  Despite it's ferocity, there was only one storm related injury - one slightly pinched finger that occurred when taking the cabinet down to repair it.

The storm was EXTREMELY localized, the East side of the shop unfortunately still looks like this.





I am however gaining on it.  I found that a lot of the mess on the bench top was left-over pieces of wood and duct that I MIGHT use.  Once I got them sorted and stacked elsewhere it freed up a LOT of space.  Yes, I just moved the mess to another location, but now it's an organized mess - and its' days are limited.  I even got those unruly PEX lines that run across the ceiling under better control.





What's left on the dust collector?  I've still got to make the 3" blast-gates & get them installed, wire & install the automatic airlock controls, and make the final filter for the fan outlet.  I've got parts on order to convert the airlock from the direct drive that it currently is, into a belt drive that will reduce the airlock speed from 20 RPM down to 3-4 RPM.  The last time I was in one of the big box stores, I just HAPPENED to be strolling through the shop vac aisle, and saw some likely candidates for the filter elements.  We'll see if I can make them work.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 1, 2022)

The first set of 3" blast gate rings came off the printer this morning, and surprise-surprise they'll even fit.  I started the next set this morning before I left for work.  Each set is about a 6 hour print, so the 2nd set will be waiting for me when I get home.  That or a very large mess will be waiting for me.  I'm going to try and get the plywood parts of the blast gates cut out tonight while the 3rd set of rings is printing. 

Either I wasn't careful enough when I installed the aluminum tape on some of the PVC to Snaplok joints, or my idea for sealing up the joints isn't going to work.  There are several spots where the tape appears to be cut.  I'll put a patch over those spots for now and keep an eye on things.  I may have to strip the tape off and just caulk the joints.


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## RM-MN (Mar 1, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> The first set of 3" blast gate rings came off the printer this morning, and surprise-surprise they'll even fit.  I started the next set this morning before I left for work.  Each set is about a 6 hour print, so the 2nd set will be waiting for me when I get home.  That or a very large mess will be waiting for me.  I'm going to try and get the plywood parts of the blast gates cut out tonight while the 3rd set of rings is printing.
> 
> Either I wasn't careful enough when I installed the aluminum tape on some of the PVC to Snaplok joints, or my idea for sealing up the joints isn't going to work.  There are several spots where the tape appears to be cut.  I'll put a patch over those spots for now and keep an eye on things.  I may have to strip the tape off and just caulk the joints.


Look at rubber electrical tape.  It comes in widths from 1/2" to 2" and is stretchy and sticky both sides.  It might seal up what you want.


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 1, 2022)

RM-MN:

I know several friendly electricians that I might be able to talk out of a partial roll of that tape.  I was actually thinking about applying a strip of duct tape over the transition area, and then the aluminum tape over that.  The duct tape would act as a cushion over any sharp edges, and the fabric in the duct tape would act as a rebar for the soft aluminum tape.

I know the adhesive on the duct tape will dry out and fail over time, but the aluminum tape will hang in there.  In the plant where I work there are insulated air conditioning ducts with the joints in the insulation covered with the aluminum tape.  These have been in place for years and are still in good condition - even though they go through a heat sterilization cycle every 6 weeks from March to November. (The heat sterilization cycle brings the building temperature up to 140°F for 24 hours - kills the bugs without any chemicals.)  Besides, the aluminum tape is OH SO SHINY.

The seal wasn't the problem though, I'm afraid I may have been the problem.  I burnished the aluminum tape down with a wooden block - so that I would get a good seal.  I think I may have gotten a little over-zealous with the burnishing block at times in the transition area between the PVC fitting and the Snaplok duct.  I may have cut through the tape on the sharp edge of the fitting, or more likely caused the aluminum tape to tear as it turned over that same edge.  I'll get a picture tonight that'll show one of the problem areas.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 2, 2022)

I didn't have the camera with me last night, mostly because I forgot to take it with me every time I went down to the shop - so no pictures.  I did get the last of the 3" rings printed last night, AND I got all of the plywood parts cut out and drilled.  Hopefully the holes are even drilled in the right locations.  All the time I was cobbling up a drilling jig, so that I could drill the hole on the same location in all 6 parts, I kept thinking "I have got to come up with something better than this".  Future project - parts are on order.

I did wind up trashing 3 of the plywood parts.  When I set the hole cutter, I made the opening big enough so that the plywood wasn't blocking any of the blast gate opening.  I punched the big hole in 3 of the parts before sanity kicked in and I decided to check the position of the hole I had just cut, against the opening in the ring.  The rings are only 10mm thick, so there's a fine line between the hole being big enough, as opposed to it being too big. I had definitely crossed over that line.  I said "Oh Fudge" a couple of times, or something like that, and cut 3 new plywood parts.  I un-embiggened the hole cutter, tried a sample cut, then went to town on the 6 parts.

Tonight I'll put all of the pieces together, and make the actual slides.  If I have enough time, I MIGHT even be able to get started on installing one of these blast gates.

The little that I have been able to use the dust collector has shown me that my idea of cycling the airlock on and off will probably not work.  I've had to take the airlock off several times because it was full of sawdust, and that crap really packs in hard.  When the airlock is not running the sawdust fills the cavity between the vanes just like it's supposed to.  However, when I try to empty the cyclone the vane of the airlock doesn't want to shear through the packed sawdust.  Since the majority of the airlock's parts are 3D printed, I'm rather hesitant to apply too much force.  Nope, I think it'll be safer to let the airlock run all the time, at a slower speed.  That way the airlock can take little bites of sawdust, rather than force the airlock to deal with a choke feed condition if it cycles on and off.  That's why I'm building the belt reduction for the airlock drive.  I got the 16T timing pulley and belt yesterday, still waiting on the 60T pulley.  I did start drawing things up to get an idea if my 200mm belt would actually work.  I just guessed at a length when I ordered the belt, and it turns out I guessed right.  (I was afraid it would be WAY too short.)  Now I just have to whomp up some sort of mounting bracket, so I can tighten the belt. 

Don


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## awake (Mar 4, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> The little that I have been able to use the dust collector has shown me that my idea of cycling the airlock on and off will probably not work.  I've had to take the airlock off several times because it was full of sawdust, and that crap really packs in hard. ...



Nothing beats trial and error - but that is one of the super nice things about 3d printers; you get to dream up an idea, print it out, and see how it works!


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 4, 2022)

OK, back to 3D printed dust collector parts.  Wednesday night I got all of the 3"blast gates assembled, then I goofed off.  Last night I got them installed - TAAA DAAA:




Ladles and Jellyspoons, I'm gonna really butcher the Captain's speech from Cool Hand Luke, but....  (Use your best Southern accent when you read this.)
What we have here is not a failure to communicate, but 3 count em' 3, assembled, installed, and usable 3" blast gates.
They just need to have the joints sealed.

Speaking of which,




As you can see in the picture, this is the joint where the tape failed.  So far this is the only fitting where the tape has failed.  It's also the only fitting that seems to have nice sharp 90° corners, all the rest seem to have more rounded corners.  I think I'll try another layer of aluminum tape, be careful how I burnish it down this time, and keep an eye on it for failure.  I'll hold off on sealing the blast gate joints until after I find out if the aluminum tape is REALLY gonna work.

Speaking of failures:




This is the hose adapter for the shop vac hose that I was using on the tablesaw connection.  It don't fit no more.  Not all 3" Snaplok ducting is created equal and when I installed the blast gate for this guy I noticed that the fit into the fitting above was extremely loose.  Apparently the Snaplok section that I measured this time was not the same as the one I measured the first time.  I had to recreate the 3D model for the 3" PVC to Snaplok adapter ring because SOMEBODY deleted it - don't know who would do something that stupid.  This new adapter ring is about 0.75mm smaller.  That's OK, because as you can see I had to ADJUST the fit a little bit to get a snug fit on the hose anyway.  I fixed both of the fit problems last night and started printing out 2 copies, it was over an 8 hour print.  It only had about 1/2 hour to go when I left for work this morning, it should have finished printing while I was driving into work.

I've got to stop by a Big Box store and pick up a couple of generic shop vac hoses, I'm sure they won't mind sacrificing some of their length for the greater good of the system.  That way I can make the permanent connections for the drill press and the band saw.

The light at the end of the tunnel is DEFINITELY not another train.

Don


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## ajoeiam (Mar 5, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> OK, back to 3D printed dust collector parts.  Wednesday night I got all of the 3"blast gates assembled, then I goofed off.  Last night I got them installed - TAAA DAAA:
> View attachment 134763
> 
> Ladles and Jellyspoons, I'm gonna really butcher the Captain's speech from Cool Hand Luke, but....  (Use your best Southern accent when you read this.)
> ...




Yee haw - - - - ride the tiger - - cowboy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 7, 2022)

Friday night I checked at the BIG BOX stores, all 3 of them.  I found nuthin at the first store, one 8' shop vac hose at the big orange store, and one 7' hose at the big blue store.  Saturday I was able to get the PERMANENT dust collector connection for the band saw installed, and the mostly temporary connection for the tablesaw installed.  Using the blast gate this time for the tablesaw connection.  I had to get some hose clamps to make up those connections, which required a trip to my local farm store.  While there, just for funsies I checked to see if they had any shop vac hoses.  Right there, sitting on the shelf were two 7' hoses.  For the same price as what I paid at the big box stores - who'd a thunk it?

I took the gearmotor off the airlock, I was going to make and connect the leads to the motor.  At least I was until I discovered that one of the motor's connection tabs had broken off flush with the insulation - no fixing that.  Oh well, that was a motor that I had laying around for many years, could have happened anytime.  Probably a good thing it happened now.  When I started checking the parts that I had for the airlock controls, I found that the gearmotor and power supply were 12VDC.  EVERYTHING else that I had ordered, or had on hand, were 24VDC.  I didn't have enough parts in either voltage to make a functional system.

Ebay to the rescue, I ordered a 24VDC DIN rail power supply, but I won't see it until next month.  That's OK, I've got a non-DIN rail power supply that I can make work until then.  I was going to order another micro-gearmotor just like the one I had, then I found a N.O.S. Dayton 24VDC 12PRM gearmotor, rated for continuous duty, for about the same price.  THAT decision was a no-brainer, and Dayton still makes the same model gearmotor.  The new gearmotor is supposed to be here by Friday.  The new gearmotor is SLIGHTLY bigger than the old one so I need to re-design my mounting system.  I had to do that anyway since I was going to a belt drive instead of the original direct drive.

I spent the rest of the weekend making and installing the grounding connections on the dust collector and the main trunk-line.  I'm about 6 connections away from having all the sections of the ducting, along with the cyclone electrically bonded together, and grounded. 

I also started to wire the control panel.  I dug through my collection of parts that I have scrounged over the years and found a 24VDC illuminated Allen-Bradley mushroom head E-stop button.  *OF COURSE* I had to use it, I feel safer already.   I got the controls mounted on the front of the panel, and I got the panel's mounting brackets installed.  I've got to cut the openings in the box for the cable glands, and then all of the gizzinza's and goesouta's to the panel will be done.  Then I can install the panel enclosure and complete the panel wiring.

Once the control panel wiring and the duct grounding is complete, the LAST major hurdle for the dust collection system will be fabricating and installing the final filter assembly.   That light up ahead is getting brighter all the time.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 10, 2022)

OK, I got a bunch of parts delivered to my house in the last few days and last night and I was going through them.  Inventorying what I had, and what I still needed to make the airlock go roundy-roundy:
24V power supply - on order, coming from Lithuania - I think it's in Germany now (I've got a temporary workaround power supply on hand)
Control panel - installed but not completely finished (maybe 33% done)
E-stop - installed
DC fan switch - installed
DC airlock switch - installed
DC fan relay - installed
DC airlock relay - installed
Fused terminals - ordered and currently in Portland... SUPPOSED to be delivered Monday
DC airlock - installed
DC airlock motor - got the new motor but it's not installed yet (need to design and print motor bracket yet)
DC airlock 60T pulley - installed
DC airlock GT2 280mm belt  - got it but it's not installed (need motor & bracket installed first)
DC airlock motor 20T pulley - UMMMM.... I *THOUGHT* I ordered it. 

Oh well, the pulley is now ordered and shipped, it will be here early next week.  By then I should have the motor bracket printed and installed, along with the controls wired, tested, and ready to go.  Who knows, I might even print a belt guard - safety first you know.  We just won't tell the Health & Safety people how I'm planning on hooking up the temporary 24V power supply.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 14, 2022)

Good news, my real-live 24V power supply should be here Wednesday.  That means I don't have to try temporarily cobbling in the other 24V power supply, Health & Safety will be SO pleased.  My fused terminals were just delivered today, so maybe I can actually start wiring the panel tonight.  I *DO* have to pick up some wire labels though.  As a controls engineer, unmarked wires just make my skin crawl.

I got the motor bracket designed, printed, and installed over the weekend, but it's a different color than the rest of the airlock parts.  I can live with that because I was running out of that color filament.  I didn't think I had used that much of it, but then I remembered that particular color only comes in 0.75Kg spools.

It was probably a good thing I ran out.  When I tried fitting the motor to the partially printed bracket, it DIDN'T fit.  It was late Friday night when I designed the bracket, and SOMEBODY got the orientation of the shaft side of the 3D model 90° out of sync with the motor side.  The gearmotor is not QUITE square, and the output shaft is not QUITE centered on the face, but it's close.  And the mounting studs are on 60mm centers one way, and 65mm centers the other.  I was using the motor side as my reference for all my measurements, and when I plopped it down on the model 90° from where it actually was and didn't catch it...   

Anywho, I fixed that problem, measured the 3D model's dimensions, compared them to the real deal and when they matched - I said all is well with the world and printed the stupid thing.  Several hours later as I was carrying the bracket down to the basement to install I remember thinking - I am REALLY gonna be pissed if this doesn't fit.  Fortunately it did fit, it even looks like I'll have enough slack to be able to easily install the belt - Prior Planning and all that alliterative crap.

Over the weekend I also got the last of the grounding wires installed on the dust collector ducting.  The entire cyclone system is now electrically connected to the house ground.  That should prevent any static build-up in the system while it's in operation. 

That light up ahead in this tunnel is DEFINITELY getting brighter.

Don


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## awake (Mar 14, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> It was probably a good thing I ran out.  When I tried fitting the motor to the partially printed bracket, it DIDN'T fit.  It was late Friday night when I designed the bracket, and SOMEBODY got the orientation of the shaft side of the 3D model 90° out of sync with the motor side.  The gearmotor is not QUITE square, and the output shaft is not QUITE centered on the face, but it's close.  And the mounting studs are on 60mm centers one way, and 65mm centers the other.  I was using the motor side as my reference for all my measurements, and when I plopped it down on the model 90° from where it actually was and didn't catch it...


That sounds awfully familiar. Surely I haven't done something like that ... have I??

Don, remind me - are you running the grounding wire inside the piping or outside? (Does it matter?)


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 15, 2022)

Andy:

I'm running the grounding wire on the outside.  I thought I had a picture of some of the wires installed, but I don't.  I'll try to remember to get one tonight, along with a shot of the airlock motor bracket.

Actually the ground wires are more like jumpers around the plastic fittings.  I know to have a proper bonded ground I SHOULD have run an individual wire from my grounding point to each fitting, but that would add up to a LOT of wire.  I've got about 20 individual metal sections and if you figure an average of 20' of wire per section...  You do the math, that's a bunch of wire.  The way I did it all the connections are in series, so if I lose one connection then everything beyond that connection will be ungrounded.  In my opinion this is sufficient, especially since there are people who say that grounding is not needed at all.  And I used less than 30' of wire.

This is a static discharge to ground connection, not the ground connection on a device with enough volts and amps to kill you.  I verified every connection as I made it to be sure I had a good connection between the metal sections.  Checking the connections is something that I'll have to do periodically to ensure I've still got a good ground.

I read an article years ago about grounding a PVC duct for a dust collector, I think it was in Shop Notes or a similar magazine, but it could have been on-line.  This article was about their un-official testing of various methods for grounding the PVC duct.  They tried a  bare copper conductor inside the duct, a bare copper conductor strapped to the outside of the duct, and an insulated conductor strapped to the outside of the duct.  Their conclusion was that it didn't really matter how you did it all of the methods effectively reduced, if not eliminated, the static build-up.

To ground, or not to ground, that is the question.  Me, I jumpered all the metal sections together and tied the whole kerfluffle to ground.

Don


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## awake (Mar 16, 2022)

Ah, all the 3d printed components made me forget that you are doing most of the ductwork in metal. Sounds good ...


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 16, 2022)

Last night I remembered to take a couple of pictures.  This is the new motor bracket with the new gearmotor.  It's just a LITTLE bit bigger than the old gearmotor.  Still waiting on the 20T motor pulley.





The next couple of pictures are just the jumpers that connect the metal sections of the duct.









It seems like a HELLUVA mess just to get one little bitty panel wired up, but I'm getting there.




The blue and white thing in the middle of the shot is my 24V power supply that just arrived.  I thought I was getting a deal on a used power supply, turns out it was NOS so I really did get a deal.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 17, 2022)

It's wired, I need to get some fuses, when I checked my stash, I found I did have any of the proper flavor.

Professional panel builders please turn away.  They gone?  OK, this is what the panel looks like.




Yeah I know, it's too crowded.  But when I bought the panel all that was supposed to be in it was a smaller power supply, and a couple of smaller timing relays.  I got hit by the dreaded project scope creep.

I'll verify the wiring tonight, hopefully install the correct fuses, and get the CORRECT labels on the fused terminals.  When  you buy used AB terminals off Ebay, odds are that they will already have some type of label on them - at least the SHOULD have a label.

The 20T gearmotor pulley arrived yesterday, so if I can find the belt I'll probably get the belt drive installed too.

If all goes well, maybe I'll even be able to see if I can let the magic smoke out of anything - hopefully NOT.  I will do a live bench test of the panel before I install it.  Once I get the panel checked out, all I've got to do is bolt it in, and connect 8 wires: incoming 120V hot, neutral, and ground; the 3 fan motor leads; and the 2 DC airlock motor leads - then we should be good to go.

I'll let you know if I need to find some more magic smoke or not.

Don


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## ajoeiam (Mar 17, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> Last night I remembered to take a couple of pictures.  This is the new motor bracket with the new gearmotor.  It's just a LITTLE bit bigger than the old gearmotor.  Still waiting on the 20T motor pulley.
> 
> The next couple of pictures are just the jumpers that connect the metal sections of the duct.
> 
> ...



Hmmmm - - - what is NOS?
You're fortunate to have your PVC  - - - here a local supplier says no stock and none to be had. 
Found some elsewhere but that's to 2" - - - - argh!!!!!


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## ajoeiam (Mar 17, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> It's wired, I need to get some fuses, when I checked my stash, I found I did have any of the proper flavor.
> 
> Professional panel builders please turn away.  They gone?  OK, this is what the panel looks like.
> 
> ...




waiting!!!!!!!


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 17, 2022)

ajoeiam:

NOS - New Old Stock.  A surplus part that is brand new, unused, but still packed in the original box.  That power supply brand new, and they still make it, is about $90.  I got it for about 1/3 of that.

Hopefully there will be no smoke on the horizon, but that IS what fuses are for.  As long as I test the panel correctly, incoming power, 24V power supply, power to fuses, then one fuse circuit at a time I should be OK.  I could even get some itty-bitty sacrificial fuses, small enough that they'll blow before anything else does, for bench testing the panel.  There'll be no load on the panel when bench testing, I just want to be sure it functions the way I expect it to function.

Don


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## ajoeiam (Mar 18, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> ajoeiam:
> 
> NOS - New Old Stock.  A surplus part that is brand new, unused, but still packed in the original box.  That power supply brand new, and they still make it, is about $90.  I got it for about 1/3 of that.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info!!!

I have also begun a journey into that strange black hole called electronics as well as its sister entity programming.  

So much to do and so little time to get it all done in!!!!!!!!


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 18, 2022)

WELL..... It worked - sort of - kinda.  When I bench tested it everything went fine, no magic smoke was released.  So I tried bolting the back panel into the enclosure, but it wouldn't fit.  Remember that scope creep?  Yup, SOMEBODY didn't allow for the stick-out of the fittings inside the panel.  I got around that little issue, my power supply is now resting on the bottom of the enclosure instead of being attached to the back panel.

With the back panel wrestled into place and fuses pulled, I plugged the beast in and held my breath...  Still no tell-tale wisps of magic smoke.  Next step, pop the fuses in one by one and check the panel with it live.  No smoke, no fires, with the E-stop pressed in the panel was as dead as it was supposed to be.  When I pulled out the E-stop the control power light came on just like it was supposed to.  (I know, that's NOT how a proper E-stop circuit is supposed to work, but it's what I could cobble together with the parts on hand, OK?)  When I flipped the fan switch on the indicator in the SSR (Solid State Relay) came on.  I hadn't plugged in the fan yet. So...  It was time to see if I could make the airlock go roundy-roundy.  I flipped the switch to the HAND position and.... NUTHIN!!!!  WTF, I checked that on the bench and I had power at the switch.  Got the meter out and I DID have power at the switch.  The only thing between the switch and the motor is the wire.

AWW MANNNN!!!  There are 2 wires coming off that switch, a #9, and a #10.  I checked the continuity, and - nuthin.  Did I do that?  Yup, I doooed that.  The wire that goes to the + side of the motor is labeled #9 at the motor connection, but it's #10 at the switch.   Okee-Dokee, simple fix, take the wires off the switch, relabel them and connect them to the switch - like they were supposed to be the first time around.  Now why didn't I catch that when I bench tested the panel?  Simple, I checked things at the switch, not at the end of the wire. (It's just a wire, what can go wrong??  Those little boo-boos are ALWAYS hard to find.)

OK, with that little boo-boo corrected it was time to power things back up and see if this actually works.  Summa-na-gunnn, it actually goes roundy-roundy in HAND, what about AUTO?  Flipped the airlock switch to AUTO, and turned on the fan, still with the fan unplugged.  The indicator on the SSR came on, and the airlock started turning, time to do a little HAPPY dance.

Time to bite the bullet and try the fan, for real.  I turned off the switch, plugged in the fan and turned on the switch and NUFFIN.  WTF????  Waitaminute, the fan's got it's own ON/OFF switch.  OK turned off the fan switch on the panel, and turned on the switch on the fan.  I then turned on the fan switch on the panel.  I could hear the fan starting to turn over..... then the fuse audibly went POP.

Johnny Depp in The Lone Ranger said that Kemosabe, in his language, meant WRONG brother.  I wonder how they would have said WRONG fuse?  The ONLY fuses I could find last night were AGC type fuses.  This is a non-time-delay, fast acting fuse - mostly for protecting electronics.  I found 2A fuses and 10A fuses, I also found 20A fuses but I DIDN'T want to go that high.  I doubted that the AGC fuse would handle the high inrush current of the fan motor, but I thought it was worth a shot.  I was right, it didn't work.

I called around to my local friendly electrical suppliers, and fuses is HARD to find right now.  You usually don't get what you want, but you take what you can get.  I wanted MDL-10 fuses, couldn't find any - anywhere, but I did find two MDL-12's.  They're set aside with my name on them, and I'll pick them up at lunchtime.

While I was running the airlock, I noticed that the gearmotor was awfully noisy, gear-wise.  It was a used unit off Ebay so I'll probably have pull it apart and re-grease the gears.  This thing is a Dayton and should be almost silent while it's running.

What's left, the final filters.  After that, the system is usable as is, and will probably stay this way until I build the Mk.II control panel.  That'll have a *PROPER *E-stop circuit, and will automatically start the system when I open a blast-gate.  And EVERYTHING will be connected to terminals.  Not connected willy-nilly like it is now.  (Didn't have room for terminals in this panel, bit in the butt by that damned scope creep again.)

I am *NOT* gonna show you any pictures of the inside of this panel, I've got my professional pride you know.  Let's just say it works and won't burn down the house.  (And leave it at that.)

Don


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## ajoeiam (Mar 19, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> WELL..... It worked - sort of - kinda.  When I bench tested it everything went fine, no magic smoke was released.  So I tried bolting the back panel into the enclosure, but it wouldn't fit.  Remember that scope creep?  Yup, SOMEBODY didn't allow for the stick-out of the fittings inside the panel.  I got around that little issue, my power supply is now resting on the bottom of the enclosure instead of being attached to the back panel.
> 
> With the back panel wrestled into place and fuses pulled, I plugged the beast in and held my breath...  Still no tell-tale wisps of magic smoke.  Next step, pop the fuses in one by one and check the panel with it live.  No smoke, no fires, with the E-stop pressed in the panel was as dead as it was supposed to be.  When I pulled out the E-stop the control power light came on just like it was supposed to.  (I know, that's NOT how a proper E-stop circuit is supposed to work, but it's what I could cobble together with the parts on hand, OK?)  When I flipped the fan switch on the indicator in the SSR (Solid State Relay) came on.  I hadn't plugged in the fan yet. So...  It was time to see if I could make the airlock go roundy-roundy.  I flipped the switch to the HAND position and.... NUTHIN!!!!  WTF, I checked that on the bench and I had power at the switch.  Got the meter out and I DID have power at the switch.  The only thing between the switch and the motor is the wire.
> 
> ...



Hmmmmmmm - - - - - and how do you suppose that I am going to be able to learn how to make a great panel if I don't get to see what it looks like right now. 

I get the 'I want it done well' thing - - - but I've been watching over your shoulder for a while for the learning experience for a while. 
Would like to 'get' that part of it too. 

Please?


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 21, 2022)

You WANT to see a picture of a rat's nest?




This is what my first 3D printer looked like after I got done putting it together - ALMOST according to the instructions.  The instructions didn't say anything about about coiling up the extra wire.

This is what it looked like after I got done rat-killing.






While my panel doesn't look QUITE that bad, it's definitely a rat's nest.  I can give you some ideas of what I look for in a good panel design.

1 - Will it be easy to service?  This panel has got 1 strike against it already, there's fuses, relays, switches and other serviceable stuff inside - behind a non-hinged, non-captive, screw on cover.

2 - Are there adequate terminals?  There's strike 2, there are no regular terminals inside the panel.  Why not? No room, but I'm coming to that.  You should wire the panel to terminals, and the field devices to terminals.  Field devices that are wired directly to the panel make it harder to trouble shoot the system, and also make for a messier panel.

3 - Is there room for expansion?  We're up to strike 3.    Initially this panel was only going to contain a couple of small Omron timing relays and an ON/OFF toggle switch.  Then Operations started in on their wish list.  Scope creep, remember those words because they'll bite you right in the butt every time.  A good panel should have all the required parts to do the job, PLUS about 15-20% of the panel area available for future expansion.  Why didn't I use a different panel?  Because I already HAD this one, I had gotten this panel before the scope creep struck.  It was adequately sized for what I was initially going to put in there, just not for all the stuff I eventually DID put in there.

4 - Is there adequate room in the panel?  Strike 4.  When designing a panel, you got to start thinking about the volume you have available in the panel, not just the area of the panel.  My power supply for instance is 3.5"H x 1.5"W x 4"D, I've got an 8"H x 6"W x 4"D panel - should fit right?  Not so much, the panel dimensions are outside dimensions, when you add in the back panel, the usable volume inside of the panel is reduced to more like 7" x 5" x 3.5".  Trust me on this one, when you've got EVERYTHING assembled, and you're wondering why the cover won't fit...   That is NOT the time to discover this problem.  And it's not just the hardware that needs to fit in the panel, you've got to be able to get your grubby little pinkies in there to to work on anything.  And you WILL have to work in the panel at sometime.

I'm not happy with this panel that I built, and it will get changed in the future.  *BUT,* it will work for now.  Just do as I say, and not as I do, when designing a panel.

I tried running the dust collector over the weekend, and I wasn't getting anything out, stuff went in, but didn't come out.  I tore the airlock off and found that the material had bridged over the airlock opening.  After I got that cleaned and put back together I tried just picking up the sawdust in the bin and running it round and round, I wasn't getting as much out as what went in, and the belt was skipping.  The belt tension was flexing the bracket and when a slug of material hit the airlock, the vane coming around would add enough extra flex to the bracket to allow the belt to slip.  I redesigned the motor bracket and added a brace to keep it from flexing.  The belt doesn't slip anymore, but I'm STILL not getting as much out of the airlock as I put in.

I've got too much leakage through the airlock.  I'm thinking I may have to re-design the guts of the airlock.  It currently only has 4 vanes, which means that most of the time I've only got 2 vanes sealing the opening between the low pressure inside the cyclone, and the higher pressure outside the airlock.  I'll take it up to 8 vanes, and tighten up some of the fits.  That should keep the material from being pulled back into the cyclone.  Start ups are always baby steps at first.

Don


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## ajoeiam (Mar 22, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> You WANT to see a picture of a rat's nest?
> View attachment 135290
> 
> This is what my first 3D printer looked like after I got done putting it together - ALMOST according to the instructions.  The instructions didn't say anything about about coiling up the extra wire.
> ...



Wasn't trying to tick you off!!! 
Your design summary (1 to 4 above) is great. 
I was/am trying to learn from what isn't working for you. Don't think I have enough years left to make mistakes on most of my 'projects'. 
So the question wasn't meant to be insulting or demeaning just viewing the opportunity for learning (and you seem to at least have some idea of what you're doing - - - - NOT like me!!!). 

Suggestion - - - try adding some wipers to the blades on the airlock. 
Would think that might be the fastest and easiest upgrade.


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 22, 2022)

Not ticked off, got thicker skin than that, just surprised that you would want to see a wiring nightmare.  I was just showing you a picture of what the inside of the panel resembles - since I don't have any pictures of the actual panel.    A messy panel is something you really don't want to have.  To quote part of the 10th Electrical/Electronic Commandment, "lest thy successor teareth his hair asunder and go slowly mad in his attempts to determineth what manner of creature hath wrought such a nest within said equipment."

Regarding the wipers on the vanes, I had actually thought about something similar to that.  (Great minds work alike and all that.)

Many-many moons ago in the early 90's, my boss at that time came up with the idea of building a tabletop PLC controlled batching system to use at our company  customer Christmas party.  That way other people could get a better idea of what we actually DID for a living.  We made individual cups of hot chocolate with several options, one of those was adding Peppermint Schnapps to make Peppermint Patties.  I designed that beast to include a hot water tank- actually a new coffee urn, a mixer, 3 pumps, 2 airlocks/rotary valves, and a dispenser for marshmallows that we never could get to work right.  I later found out from the guys that make Lucky Charms, that they always had trouble with the marshmallow bits too.  Marshmallows are sticky little suckers. 

One of the people that worked in the office had a good recipe for instant hot chocolate mix.  One airlock was for the chocolate mix, and other for the creamer mix.  The airlocks had vanes made out of a sheet of flexible silicone.  It took a LOT of testing at the office to make sure we had the mixing JUST right.  Fortunately there were plenty of volunteer test subjects.

That hot chocolate machine is long gone now, but it was the hit of the customer Christmas parties for several years.  When we would talk to our customers about the when the Christmas party would be for the next few years, one of the first questions asked was if the hot chocolate machine would be there?

I might see if I can source something similar to that silicone sheet and make the vanes out of it.  I was kind of loose with the fit of the current vanes.  For one thing I wasn't sure how much torque my original gearmotor was capable of.  This Dayton gearmotor uses a larger motor and a lower gear ratio, so I'm not as worried about it being able to overcome the extra drag.

Don


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## awake (Mar 23, 2022)

ddmckee54 said:


> That hot chocolate machine is long gone now, but it was the hit of the customer Christmas parties for several years.  When we would talk to our customers about the when the Christmas party would be for the next few years, one of the first questions asked was if the hot chocolate machine would be there?


Was it the hot chocolate, or was it the Schnapps?

I can hear the marketing slogan now: with our PLCs, it's a "shnapp" to make!


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## ddmckee54 (Mar 23, 2022)

Actually there weren't that many that went for the Peppermint Pattie option, the vast majority went for the hot chocolate.  And many of them went for the "Extra Chocolate" option.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 1, 2022)

Back to the airlock leaking dilemma.

I found some 1mm sheet silicon rubber and I've got it on order.  I figure it'll be faster, to try modifying the existing airlock rotor design like ajoeiam suggested, before throwing it out for a new design.  The 1mm sheet will let me replace the  existing vanes with the rubber sheet sandwiched  between a pair of reinforcing plates, and still get that assembly in the existing slot.  I've got a 10" x 20" sheet coming so I should be able to make quite a few vanes.  

Don


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## awake (Apr 1, 2022)

Here's hoping your efforts will not be in vane!  ... err, in vain!


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## ajoeiam (Apr 2, 2022)

awake said:


> Here's hoping your efforts will not be in vane!  ... err, in vain!


Ouch - - - - that is just too punny! (sic)


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 4, 2022)

What's that odd smell?  I didn't think it was Punday night already.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 8, 2022)

I just got an e-mail telling me that my sheet of 1mm silicone rubber was delivered.  Looks like the printers are going to be busy this weekend.  The D6 will be printing replacement parts for the airlock, and the MP10 will be printing Mario. and Dreadnought Benchy's CWIS parts.


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 19, 2022)

Over the Easter weekend I got the new vanes, the ones with the flexible wipers, installed in the airlock.  I got a little over-exuberant with the size of the wiper the first time around, couldn't turn the airlock any more.  After I trimmed about 1mm off, I allowed 2mm the first time, they were much better.  I could turn the airlock, and so could the motor.  I could feel some extra drag as I turned the airlock but that was to be expected.

When I took the airlock apart, I discovered that I had apparently been a little generous on the length of the airlock shell.  I had printed a couple of spacers for the airlock rotor to fill the gap.  These spacers were about 1mm thick and there was one on each end of the rotor, but they only when up top the bottom of the vanes.  So I effectively had a 2mm gap where air could be sucked in around the rotor.  That explained why the cyclone wasn't emptying like it should have been.  

With the wipers installed I can still feel a  little draft going into the airlock, but not nearly as bad as it used to be.  Apparently it was leaking enough air that I was getting some drop-out in the duct.  I had emptied the bin under the airlock before I started taking it apart, didn't want to have to paw around in the sawdust to find a dropped M3 bolt.  After I rebuild the airlock and ran the system for a few minutes, the bottom of the bin was covered with a small pile of sawdust.  That sawdust must have been laying in the bottom of the duct-work, because nothing was running other than the DC fan and airlock. 

About all that's left to do now is to build the final filters so that I'm returning the air to the shop as clean as I can reasonably get it.

Don


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## ajoeiam (Apr 20, 2022)

Hmmmmm - - - trying to understand where the problem was. 
You made the frame for the airlock longer than the rotor - - - yes, no, maybe?


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## ddmckee54 (Apr 20, 2022)

Yup, the airlock frame/shell wound up a couple about 2mm longer than intended.  But it was square to the world so I figured that I could re-make the vanes and add 1mm to each end.  Near as I can figure, that must have still left a path for the air to get past. 

When I made the silicon rubber wipers for the vanes I cut them so I had a wiper on both ends of the vane as well as along the length of it.

This is how much sawdust that had dropped out of the airflow in the main dust collector trunk-line.




While it covers the bottom of the "bin", it's actually only about 1-1/2 to 2 cups of sawdust. 




But that would have eventually built up in the duct.  I may have to get out the bore-scope and look at the ducts that I can get into, now I'm curious if I still have a problem, or if I've solved it.  I don't really want to, but I may have to cut an access hole into the main trunk-line so I can see if I've got dust laying in the bottom of it.

The first plant that I worked at had a poorly designed dust collection system.  After the fire department had to come out and put out a smoldering fire in the duct-work another guy and I got "blessed" with the easy job of cleaning out the 24" duct where it ran across the roof, I was a few pounds lighter and a LOT more nimble then.  (Confined space permit?  What's that?) 

Within a year, they had a repeat of this fire, only this time it blew the top off the dust collector, the top was 1/8" steel about 12' x 12' - wound up in a field about 200-300 yards away.  After that the entire dust collection system was rebuilt, never had any problems after that.


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## ddmckee54 (May 3, 2022)

Just about ready to stick a fork in this project and call it done.

Over the weekend I got the final filter assembly made and installed.  It got a 3D printed round to rectangular adapter to adapt the 4" hose to the filter box.  Not that it absolutely NEEDED the 3D printed part, but if you've got the toys you might as well use them.

Last night I printed another hose adapter.  This one adapts a piece of shop vac hose to the airlock discharge.  I'm using that hose to keep the dust discharged by the airlock from being blown around as it drops into the bin.  When I printed the airlock discharge section I measured the ID of one of my older shop vac hoses.  The hoses that I got to actually make the connections have a different ID.  Not wanting to purchase another $30 eight foot long hose, just for the eight inch piece I needed, I printed another adapter and used some of the leftover hose that I already had.

I'll get a picture of the final filters and discharge extension tonight and then we'll call this job done enough - for now.

Don


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## ddmckee54 (May 4, 2022)

OK, the fork is stuck in, but first - *Picture Time.*

This is the final filter/s.





You can ALMOST see the 3D printed adapter from this angle - sorry about that.  The filters are a pair of shop vac filters for fine particulate - from Menard's I think.  It was one of those big box stores anyway.

This is the discharge extension.





It works quite well, the crap doesn't drift around, just falls straight down into the bin.  I tried sucking up the pile of sawdust in the bin and got all of it sucked up before I started getting any back.  It wasn't THAT big of a pile.  The airlock IS discharging while the fan is running, so the new vanes helped.  

*BUT* the pile of sawdust that I got back wasn't quite as big.  When I shut off the fan, but kept the airlock running, I got the rest of the pile.  I get the bigger chunks when the fan is running, then when I turn off the fan I get the rest of it.

I'm thinking that while the new vanes helped, there aren't enough of them to block enough of the air leak through the airlock.  The leak through the airlock is enough to keep the fine dust in suspension and out of the rotor.  I'll probably print another rotor, this time with 8 vanes instead of 4.  That should help cut down on the air leak through the airlock.  For now I've just got to remember to run the airlock for a while after I shut off the fan.

When/IF I build a new control panel, that will be done automatically - just like we do with the big dust collectors.

Don


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## william_b_noble (Sep 24, 2022)

why not use a BBQ rotisserie motor to turn the rotor?  cheap, modest RPM, 100% duty cycle


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## ddmckee54 (Sep 26, 2022)

Bill:

When I first designed the DC airlock, it was designed around bit and pieces that I had on hand.  i.e.... 8mm skateboard bearings, 5/16" shaft, 20RPM 12VDC gearmotor, and parts that I could 3D print.

A BBQ rotisserie may have worked, but I didn't have one.  The square BBQ spit would have been a more positive drive for the rotor than what I finally came up with.  But then fitting the square spit to the round bearings and getting a fairly air-tight seal would have been a problem.

Don


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