# Tool list for a beginner



## coolgoose (Oct 30, 2010)

Hi Everyone!

Some of you know me from the post in Welcome section. I am new to model engineering  I have been researching on the tools required and compiled a short list. Please advice me on the list below:

*Lathe:* 7X 12 or 7X14 havent decided which make to buy. Any suggestions here would definitely make my life easy. For past one week I am pulling my hair on coming to a conclusion on which lathe to buy. 9X and 10X are way bigger for me and I am not sure about 8X ones. I am planning to convert the spare bedroom into a tool room for the hobby so definitely the space is limited.

*Lathe Accessories:* What accessories do I need for the lathe? 

*Milling Attachment:* Where can I get one? Is it absolutely required to make miniature internal combustion engines? I have decided not to get a milling machine until I become good with the lathe and build some confidence. 

*Measuring tools:*

Digital calipers: 4, 6 or 8 not sure. Any suggestions here on the make and the size?
Digital Micrometer: 0-1. Any suggestions on make etc?
Height Gauge: I guess it comes with the calipers
Ruler
Divider
Scriber

Besides these listed here are there any other tools a beginner would need? 


Thank You,
Sri.


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## bearcar1 (Oct 30, 2010)

Hi Sri, welcome aboard. If I may suggest it, a good drill press will go a long way towards your goal. Some of the bench top models (ones that do not stand on the floor) are very reasonably priced and do their intended job quite well. As far as the digital readout calipers and micrometers and such, personally I do not care for them because they seem to eat batteries in a hurry. I do own both but very rarely use them, instead I rely on the analog readout units, they do not require batteries and are every bit as accurate. 

BC1
Jim


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## zeeprogrammer (Oct 30, 2010)

Hello Sri,

If this is of any help...I started with nothing early last year...

I have a 7x12 and have yet to wish for a 7x14.
I haven't used a scriber yet.
The height gauge (and surface block) have been great.
I use digital calipers (6") and am starting to use a micrometer (1") for better accuracy.
Yet to use a divider.
I've used the (steel) ruler for gross measurements and to check the center of a cutting tool.
A dial indicator with magnetic stand is very handy for measuring the carriage distance, etc.
Reamers, drill bits...you'll soon find a quick change post very nice.
...back up...if you mean a pen-looking scriber then yes...not one of those gizmos that you adjust and sit on a stand.
taps and dies
I've been struggling with buying whole kits of things...seems they're less quality than buying one at a time. May seem more expensive...but you don't use many of the ones in the kit.

I haven't used a milling attachment. Soon after I got into this hobby I realized I was hooked and went for a small mill. A bit more cost there. Vise, end mills, parallels, spin indexer, rotary table.

It looks daunting at first...but if you find yourself staying with the hobby..you'll be happy. If not...we're always looking for a deal. ;D


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 30, 2010)

> Lathe Accessories: What accessories do I need for the lathe?


Drill chuck with Morse taper 
live center 
QC tool holder you will use it all the time
4 jaw chuck 
center drills 
drill bits or set 
Dial indicator with holder

Milling adapter here
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1681&category=1


I would suggest you get a regular Micrometer and learn to read it. back up your measurement with a digital caliper IMHO 6" is the best size for home shop. 
If you really want a digital mic IMHO just about any brand will work Mine is from Harbor freight bottom of the barrel brand and still works fine. 

If you are getting a height gage you need a flat surface to put it on a i have a

12 x 18 granite import. 
As far as batteries I have several digital calipers and digital indicators. I bough a bunch of batteries from SR44. com they are name brand and last well. do not get lr44s they do not last and do not pay $$ each for them at wally world. 
A square is great to have. 
And I like my Optical center punch if you have a sharp punch and good feel you can do with out one.
A set of jenny calipers AKA hermaphrodite calipers are also good to have.
Tin


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## JackG (Oct 30, 2010)

Some other tools that quickly come to mind and that I've found very useful are:

- Combination square
- Wiggler
- Edge finder
- A bottle of layout fluid
- Calipers (inside and outside) plus a hermaphrodite caliper
- Number fractional drill bits
- Starrett Last Word Indicator (I use it all the time - Bought at an antique mall)
- Base for the above

Sounds like a lot, but I bought most of my small measuring tools at antique malls or on EBay (I like antique shops better because I can look the tool over before buying). I've bought top of the line brands like Starrett fairly inexpensively. Their old, but they work.


Jack


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## Troutsqueezer (Oct 30, 2010)

Get a de-burring tool. Keeps you from measuring incorrectly and keeps your fingers from splitting open when rubbing along the sharp edges. Safety and accuracy, all for a couple of bucks.


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## kcmillin (Oct 30, 2010)

Here is my two bits on the measuring equipment.

Digital measuring devices are easier and quicker to read, however I prefer to use the analog readouts. I find it much easier to see where you are, and how far you have to go. I have used DRO's and still prefer to put a dial indicator on the carriage. This is so I can easily see how fast I am coming up to my mark, and can easily judge when to stop the carriage. Watching the needle I can stop the carriage within .002" with no problem, and then finish under hand feed.

If I learned one thing about making parts its that your machines are only as accurate as the tools you use to measure with. That being said, I would only use a caliper to get en estimate of where your at, and then use your micrometer to get the absolute measurement. The most expensive caliper you can buy is only accurate to within +/- .001". That may not seem like a lot, but sometimes that is the difference between a scrap bin addition and a fitting part. A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper. 

I noticed a dramatic change in my accuracy when I switched from a caliper to a micrometer. Parts actually fit. 

Kel


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## shred (Oct 31, 2010)

I've yet to use my combination-square or dividers, yet other people say they're must haves. There's a lesson there... some work requires some tools, some does not, and there are a lot of ways to skin many of the felines we deal with.

With just a lathe, you'll be spending a lot of time getting good with the 4-jaw, so a DTI and/or DI will be needed. I love my digital calipers and mic, but get analog DI's. You'll also be doing a good bit of filing, so some good files are called for. 

Next up is some toolbits and a bench grinder. Center drills and regular drills. The letter ones are rarely used, the numbers get used a lot in small engines and small drilling and tapping.

Buy good tools for the ones you'll use constantly. You can get by with cheapies for the rare-use tools if funds are short. I'd suggest starting with a small set and building as needs arise versus getting a big kit to start.


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## coolgoose (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks Bearcar1 for suggesting Drill Press. I have added it to my list. 

Zeeprogrammer what is a surface block? 

Tin Falcon thanks for suggesting the lathe accessories. What is a QC Tool Holder? What are the benefits of using a 4 jaw chuck? (I can think on top of my head ..one extra jaw hence better grip than a 3 Jaw one). 

Jack G: What is a wiggler? 

Thank You very much Pat J for the files and the list.

Thank You Kel for the advice on Calipers vs Micrometer (I will definitely keep that in mind)

Shred: What is a DTI or DI?

Thanks a lot guys for giving me all this info :bow:

 One area I have big confusion is on which lathe to buy! can some one suggest me a good 7X12 or 7X14 lathe?


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## steamer (Oct 31, 2010)

Micrometers as has already been stated, are a great value for the buck.

If/when you buy them, get ones with a "ratchet barrel" and a tenth (.0001")
verinier if they are mechanical.  If you get digital, go with 50 millionths display resolution.   If you do this , you will never need to replace them

They are so cheap now, that you really can't afford to be without them.
Even the far eastern ones aren't bad...Though I would suggest Starrett or Mitutoyo....You never regret buying good tools.

Watch the various MSC and ENCO tool sales flyers, they have great deals.

As far as lathes are concerned, get the biggest and best that you can afford. I operate on the rule that a big lathe can do little work, but not the other way around.  I would opt for the longer bed if it were up to me.

Micromark , from what I am told has done the 7X well, but I don't own one so I'll defer.

I will let the other responders answer to their specific recommendations

Glad your here and happy machining!

Dave


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 31, 2010)

As far as elctronic digital mics look here
http://www.validusgroup.com/Precision-Digital-Outside-Micrometer-0-1-x-00005-P514C185.aspx




> Tin Falcon thanks for suggesting the lathe accessories. What is a QC Tool Holder? What are the benefits of using a 4 jaw chuck? (I can think on top of my head ..one extra jaw hence better grip than a 3 Jaw one).



A Quick change tool holder 






These allow for quickly changing from one cutting bit to another.
 A simple hat bushing will require:
1 facing
2 turning to a shoulder 
3 drilling
4 boring
5 parting
you are talking about 3 tool changes minimum for the one part. 
a QC holder makes tool setup and changes faster and easier. 

A 4 jaw chuck has independent jaws 
the typical uses are 
holding square or rectangular stock for turning
turning eccentrics (these are typical in many steam engine designs) 
Allows for precise centering of parts 
allows for machining off center of part
Allows holding of some odd shapes
Forrest Addy recommends beginners use a 4 jaw for a year just to get used to how to use it. 
The disadvantage with a 4 jaw is it takes longer to set up the parts on center. 
FYI the old craftsman lathes came only with a 4 jaw chuck the 3 jaw was an option. 

If you want better grip and more consistent grip that is where a 6 jaw comes in. But a 6 jaw is expensive and usualy found in pro shops that do precision work not in the Home shop. 




Tin


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## zeeprogrammer (Oct 31, 2010)

I called it a surface block but the proper term might be surface plate.
It's a very very flat piece of stone for using measuring devices like a height gauge on. Here's a link to the one I got.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3068&category=


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## shred (Oct 31, 2010)

coolgoose  said:
			
		

> Shred: What is a DTI or DI?


Dial Indicator and Dial Test Indicator. They both have needles that spin around and measure how far the tip is pushed, but DI's are usually 1" travel and DTIs are usually 0.1" travel. They're also usually 10x as accurate. Both are used at different times. The $20 DI's from Harbor Freight have been decent for me.

Poke around for 'centering stock in a 4-jaw' to see one key use on a lathe.

As for the 7x lathes, there are a few web sites dedicated to them that are probably worth seeking out to find the latest on brands and features and deals.

Dial Indicator: 





Dial Test Indicator:





Both images from LittleMachineShop.com, a good place to shop & learn about such things.


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## kcmillin (Oct 31, 2010)

With all the talk on Dial Indicators I would also recommend a 2" travel Dial Indicator. I use this as a "DRO" for every setup on the lathe. The extended reach and range is priceless. 

Get yourself a MINI MAG magnetic indicator holder. It can hold the indicator very rigidly and square to the ways. Enco offers a set with a 2" travel indicator and a mini mag for about $25 USA. You will not regret your purchase.

Kel


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## rleete (Oct 31, 2010)

Man, you retired guys sure do have deep pockets. Surface plates? Deburring tools? QCTP?

Sure, they're nice to have, but a piece of countertop, a file and the stock TP will do for starting out.


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 31, 2010)

CG if you really want to get more confused than we have made you. Head north for about 2 hours to http://grizzly.com/ Grizzly Industrial show room. HQ in Bellingham WA they carry a full line of SEIG import machines, accessories etc. You can get a look and feel of the stuff before you buy and there is probably a retired machinist sales person to help you. I have a couple of Grizzly machines and they are good machines once tweaked. If you pick up at the show room you can do an initial inspection before leaving the lot and you save probably close to $100 in shipping costs. I have made it to the east coast show room a couple times.
Call or go on line and they will send a nice catalog or pick one up when you visit. 
FYI certain items the shipping can be a killer
a 12 x 18 surface plate is $ 29 the shipping is $44 (80 lbs
an 18 X18 is also $29 but the shipping is $74 (120 lbs)this is where living within driving distance to these suppliers comes in handy. Especially when it comes to heavy things like machines surface places and materials. 
Tin


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## 1hand (Oct 31, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> CG if you really want to get more confused than we have made you. Head north for about 2 hours to http://grizzly.com/ Grizzly Industrial show room. HQ in Bellingham WA they carry a full line of SEIG import machines, accessories etc. You can get a look and feel of the stuff before you buy and there is probably a retired machinist sales person to help you. I have a couple of Grizzly machines and they are good machines once tweaked. If you pick up at the show room you can do an initial inspection before leaving the lot and you save probably close to $100 in shipping costs. I have made it to the east coast show room a couple times.
> Call or go on line and they will send a nice catalog or pick one up when you visit.
> Tin



I agree with Tin, I purchased all Grizzly machines tool boxes and most of the first tooling. They sell a good product and when I did have problems with something they took care of it for me right over the phone.

Matt


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## Tin Falcon (Oct 31, 2010)

> Man, you retired guys sure do have deep pockets. Surface plates? Deburring tools? QCTP?
> 
> Sure, they're nice to have, but a piece of countertop, a file and the stock TP will do for starting out.



It is a matter of priority and budget. A derburing tool is IIRC $ 5 easier than a file and usable for holes. 
a surface plate $30 if picked up at the distributor and a QCTP will be used all the time. yes a stock one is usable if you tape shims to your tools and making a boring bar holder is not hard to do .But in my opinion stock tool holders are a PITA and slow down the learning process. If you have to choose between the $90 for a QCTP and say cutting bits , boring bars ,drill bits , drill chuck etc. yes the QCTP will have to wait. Also the live center can wait, a dead center will suffice. I started on a very limited budget myself and had to make the machine pay for itself and pay for upgrades. Maybe I forgot How I started ?? 
There is no right or wrong way to start this hobby. Budgets , experience , geography etc are all different. each one has to decide what is right for themselves. 
Tin


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## JackG (Oct 31, 2010)

A wiggler is a kind of center finder.  See the below Wikipedia link which can explain it better than I can. There are two types, I use both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiggler_(tool)

Re deep pockets... Like I said earlier, look on EBay or in antique malls. You can find top of the line used machinist tools, in good shape (they might have someone's initials scratched in, but they work just fine) fairly inexpensively.


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## rleete (Oct 31, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> There is no right or wrong way to start this hobby. Budgets , experience , geography etc are all different. each one has to decide what is right for themselves.



Yes, absolutely. And if you consider that most newbies asking this type of question are kids, it's a huge decision. Look at it from the point of someone who is fascinated by the mechanical stuff he sees on the web, but has no idea where to start and how deep he can get into it. If you're 16 or 17, maybe have a part time job and some spending cash, 300-400 bucks for a lathe is a pretty big purchase. If they go online and find a forum like us, only to be told they "need" 3-4 hundred _more_ in tooling just to get started, chances are the dream dies right there.

Go on a site like LMS and start adding up the stuff you'd like to have. It's easy for a beginner to get caught up buying stuff like parallels, when we all know you can get by with less. That financial leap necessary is a big comitment for someone starting out.

Better to be told it can be done with less cash outlay, if they are willing to put in a little more effort. Then, if they succeed, they can start building up the tooling.


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## coolgoose (Oct 31, 2010)

Thank You Tin, zeeprogrammer, JackG for clearing my doubts. 

Tin: As you mentioned I will go and check out Grizzly Industrial showroom in Bellingham. I can save money on shipping and use that for buying tools.

Thank You rleete for your concern. _Look at it from the point of someone who is fascinated by the mechanical stuff he sees on the web, but has no idea where to start and how deep he can get into it._ This exactly applies to me. Well now I am not worried since I found this forum and all you guys are here to advice me :bow:

Thanks a lot everyone for your time and advice!
Sri.


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## coolgoose (Nov 2, 2010)

Guys!

I finally got a 7X14 lathe from ebay. I made a good offer and the vendor accepted it   

http://cgi.ebay.com/500W-Precision-...806?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33621f26c6


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## 1hand (Nov 2, 2010)

Congrats on the purchase!

Matt


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## kcmillin (Nov 2, 2010)

Thats Great!

That is the machine I started out on. (And Still Have) More options than the big ones. The variable speed is priceless. 

Kel


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 2, 2010)

Step 1 complete...now onto the next of the endless steps. ;D
Nah...that's probably the hardest part. Congratulations!


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## Troutsqueezer (Nov 2, 2010)

Now Google "mini lathe" and look into the few simple mods this lathe will benefit from. That'll get you off to a great start.


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## coolgoose (Nov 3, 2010)

Thanks guys! 

zeeprogrammer: Getting the lathe was really the hardest part for me..  I am looking forward for the delivery of the lathe. 

Troutsqueezer: I have started to researching on mods for mini lathe. Do you have any suggestions?


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## rleete (Nov 3, 2010)

www.mini-lathe.com has a whole bunch of links. You could read for days.


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## steamer (Nov 3, 2010)

I would also invest in tools for your brain.  Southbends "How to run a lathe" comes to mind...and you don't need to own a SB to use the book.

Here's an opportunity to use your "investment" to make some tools you would otherwise have to buy.  I believe SB had a book with shop projects in it...I believe I have it somewhere...so I know it's out there.

Best of all, you'll have pride everytime you use the tool, and you will have gained valuable skill and experience in the process.

Dave


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 3, 2010)

I highly recommend making the mod of setting a piece of plastic against the gears of the apron. You'll have to remove the carriage.
Otherwise swarf gets in there and you'll find moving the carriage becomes more difficult.
I'm at work and about to go into a meeting...if I remember when I get home I'll try to find a link.
You should be able to find it if you search the 'mini-lathe.com' site.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 3, 2010)

CG congratulations on the lathe
if you have not already done so download the army Machine tool manual and the Navy repairman manual. Links to both here
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9413.0
as far as mod I agree with Z put a skirt on the saddle gears. IMHO a saddle lock and a cam type lock for the tail stock. I have only done the gear skirt but I have a south bend that gets most of the use . but the mini still gets used. 

The project book Dave speaks of is _*Machine Shop Projects*_ South Bend Lathe works available form http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks4/sblpro/index.html it is only $12 


I recently Purchased and reviewed This book http://www.amazon.com/Machining-Projects-Textbook-David-Averyt/dp/1590707796 it is three times the money but almost as good as the SB book the SB book is more bang for the buck, as far as usable tooling . The Avert book does have a nice plan set for a steam engine in it and a plan for a deburring tool and a model cannon all in all nice projects and a nice book . But if had to choose between the two I would go for the SB Project book. 

And you can get some older versions of HTRL and other South Bend pubs here free download. 
http://www.wewilliams.net/SBLibrary.htm
Tin


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## coolgoose (Nov 3, 2010)

Thank You Tin for suggesting those books! I have downloaded army Machine tool manual and the Navy repairman manual from the link you gave me  

Now that I ordered a lathe, Where can I get some cutting tools and metal stock? Also, for a beginner like me what stock metal is good to start?


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## Blogwitch (Nov 4, 2010)

CG,

Before going any further, find out what makes your lathe tick, and spend maybe a few hours adjusting it correctly.

These lathes come basically as a kit of assembled parts, and are not ready to go.

Have a look about on all the reference sources you have been directed to, especially ones dedicated to the mini lathe, and find out how to set up things like the gib strips and other little tweaky bits, it will make everything much easier for you in the long run.

Then go out and start to buy all your basic tool requirements.

Don't forget, the first major tool that is required with any machine, is the correct lubrication. A small bottle of slideway oil and general purpose lube (not WD40 or 3 in 1) will stop your machine from wearing away too quickly, and will last for ages for a small investment of a few bucks.


Bogs


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## zeeprogrammer (Nov 4, 2010)

Here's a link to the thread...near the bottom of this page is a picture of the swarf I talked about.
If you go to page 6 of the thread, you'll see the plastic I put on.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5992.15

I just took my lathe apart a few weeks ago to clean and adjust it. Not a speck of swarf in the gears.

And what Bogs said...play with it a while, tweak it, learn about it, before you try using it. Well worth the time.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 4, 2010)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Now that I ordered a lathe, Where can I get some cutting tools and metal stock? Also, for a beginner like me what stock metal is good to start?



http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM

6061 aluminum is the most common , 7075 is marine grade harder but machines nice as does jig plate
12L14 steel is the easiest to machine but do not try to weld it.
Drill rod great for shop made reamers, punches etc heat treatable also good for shafts on engines 
360 brass is beautiful stuff to work with but the price has gotten a bit high in the last few years. 
Tin


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## rleete (Nov 4, 2010)

Stick with aluminum or brass at first.

As to tools, check out http://littlemachineshop.com/default.php


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## Omnimill (Nov 5, 2010)

Congratulations on the lathe purchase! One really useful thing to make on it is one of these:







It's used for making tool height setting quick and easy.

Vic.


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## coolgoose (Nov 5, 2010)

Thank you Bogs for the advice. I am going through http://www.mini-lathe.com for information on assembling, cleaning and lubrication


Thank You zeeprogrammer for the link to the post. I will definitely get the mod you suggested done on my lathe


Thanks Tin & rleete for your suggestions on the stock metal


Vic: Can you please explain in detail what is the thing you showed me in the picture? Sorry I am noob  and requires lot of explanation.


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## Omnimill (Nov 5, 2010)

Have a look here:

http://start-model-engineering.co.uk/begin-with-bogs/top-tips-from-bogs-setting-cutter-height/

The "post" in my picture is just a simple jig that is made to the exact centre height of my lathe. When setting a new tool I simply ensure the tip is pressed tight to the underside of the overhang on the jig.

If I get a minute I'll take a better picture.

Vic.


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## coolgoose (Nov 5, 2010)

Thank You Vic for the link. I am going through it


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## deadin (Nov 23, 2010)

coolgoose,
You might find these folks real handy for getting stock.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/
They are in the industrial area in S.Seattle. They have a good selection and their prices seem fair.
The best part is if you pick up at the warehouse, you don't have to pay shipping.

I'm out in Ocean Shores and only have a couple of machine shops in Aberdeen to scrounge metal from. When they don't have what I need, I just have to man up and pay the freight. (That or do a lot of milling or turning to make a smaller piece out of a bigger one. i.e. you need a .75 piece of round or flat and all that's available is 1")

Oh yeah, don't get too enamoured of using big chunks of brass.  (You will understand when you start pricing it.)

Dean


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## oshb5 (Dec 6, 2010)

Hello 

May i ask a question and its somewhat relavant to this topic. Im not new to this by any means but have never had a thand aping press What are your views on these. please, I use the latthe when i can for Dies but as for taps have always been vie hand eye coordination? Is it worth the expence and space do you think.

Andy


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## Omnimill (Dec 6, 2010)

Not used a hand tapping stand myself Andy so can't comment on that but I do use the Lathe, Drill Press and Milling Machine for hand tapping operations to keep things square.

Vic.


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## oshb5 (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi

Thanks for the Reply Iv seen somthing used between the tap and the M/C but am unsure what it is It looks like it aids the tapping? Is this so And if so what is the device. Nothing like this was around 35+ years ago :-[

Sorry if it seems like im of topic or hijaking the thread If you think so could we possibly move iit to its own But I think the next answear will surfice and we can bed one with it, But it does come into the tools needed braket i would think?

Regs Andy


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## robwilk (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi Andy . Sorry i am not 100% sure what you mean but i can say that a simple piece of brass turned square at each end then a hole drilled down the middle so it is a comfortable fit for the tap then used as a guide ensures a straight thread every time. Hope this helps because once you have made one for a certain sized tap you don't have to make it again and eventually you will end up with a full set and saves buying tapping stands.

Rob........


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## btberlin (Dec 7, 2010)

I am a relatively new owner of the C2 lathe (about a year) (the Harbor Freight 7 x 10 version, to which I recently added the 14-inch bed kit from LMS). Here is a link to some of the mods I have made for the lathe. If u have problems viewing, let me know. I also will post a series of pix detailing the step by step progress of the QCTP I made.

http://picasaweb.google.com/btberlin/Machining?authkey=Gv1sRgCMKc67TytP3qoAE#

Each picture is captioned but I will be glad to answer questions. I also included my priority order of doing the mods in each caption. Your mileage may vary.

bert


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