# Faceplate Clamps



## SailplaneDriver (Jun 28, 2020)

Rookie question. I need to bore a 4-inch hole in some flat stock. I think it would be easiest mounted on a faceplate on the lathe. I haven't used a faceplate before and have no experience clamping to it. Is it safe to use the step block clamps we use for the mill on the faceplate if RPM is kept relatively low? My two lowest speeds are 65 and 180 RPM.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jun 28, 2020)

Yes that would be fine. Try to be aware of how much weight is going where and keep it even so you don't cause balance problems. at that low of an rpm you should have no trouble.


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## dnalot (Jun 28, 2020)

I made a 1/2" thick aluminum dist that mounts to my face-plate. It allows me to drill and tap holes where needed for mounting material. I avoid using step blocks as I prefer to make a block of the correct height that also bumps against the material to keep it from shifting from side to side. 

Mark T


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## goldstar31 (Jun 28, 2020)

Well a qualified "Yes' but  two things may come to mind

The first is to use/make a trepanning tool and the second is that you might want to back the faceplate with wood and to glue one of these glue guns nto stick te thing on with. Yea it;s bad grammar -- but it works

Actually I have ben farting about with a glue gun, a pair of temporary clamps-- and a place to use magnets on my mill drill to  to hold the x-y- indicators.

Trapanning is nothing  to answer your original question  but  once you manage to hold things one the faceplate, you have to 'cut the beast out'?
So my  question is  how are YOU going to do it? 

OK I've got one one of the fancy IQ's and  yonks ago mI made a fancy set of holders to hold titchy little things like 1/8th or 3mm round hss tooling. I CAN make these into razor sharp tooling.

Perhaps you will expand what YOU are going to do?  Have. you established a system to what is simplify getting a round out of sheet? Tihs is where you came in!


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## SmithDoor (Jun 28, 2020)

It would be helpful to post drawings.
I always purchased the largest 4 has Chuck that fit my lathe that make the work simply. But I have use face plate in past. I would need to see a photo of face plate.
I should work great too.

Dave



SailplaneDriver said:


> Rookie question. I need to bore a 4-inch hole in some flat stock. I think it would be easiest mounted on a faceplate on the lathe. I haven't used a faceplate before and have no experience clamping to it. Is it safe to use the step block clamps we use for the mill on the faceplate if RPM is kept relatively low? My two lowest speeds are 65 and 180 RPM.


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## Ken I (Jun 29, 2020)

As Goldstar stated use wood (I use supawood / MDF as it is surprisingly accurate in how parallel the faces are).

I'm not a big fan of glue but it does work surprisingly well - I have superglued parts where you can smite it off with a hammer later - then remove the glue with Acetone. Interspersing a layer of paper for a larger area allows you to split it there with a wood chisel when done. Alternately use a thin MDF sheet - you will have to soak the component and faceplate in Acetone after splitting.

I prefer to screw the wood from the rear of the faceplate and use any holes in the bit I'm machining to hold that to the wood (do those holes first ?) or add holes into the redundant areas of the component (if any) that will be removed later or add "tooling holes" that will redundantly remain in the component.

When using clamps be sure they are secure - they (and the whole shebang) can fly off - don't ever stand in line with anything that might fly off - regardless of how secure you think it is.

Use your mill to drill a centre hole at your datum co-ordinate - then using your tailstock, hold the part on centre while attaching the clamps.

If you are mounting a part that has to be clocked, attach a toolmakers button (or ream a hole / dowel pin) to clock off if there is no other reference you can use / access. You can also clock off a centredrilled hole.

Use the 'ol MkI eyball for balance and in some cases you need to bolt bits of scrap or redundant clamps to act as counterbalance.

I used to faceplate turn twin cylinder (Yamaha TZ250) cylinder heads - to tweek the squish zones - so half the head was out of balance requiring considerable balancing weights - I did this so often I could run the rig at 400 rpm with minimum vibration.

Regards,  Ken


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## almega (Jun 29, 2020)

You could drill and tap the faceplate, then use hold downs that have adjusting screws for thickness. 
Doing that, you have no parts that can potentially fly off the faceplate. Put a piece of sacrificial material behind your piece as others have said, though glueing should not be necessary if well clamped, friction alone will hold all in place. For the hole, when doing large holes, I like to start with as large a hole saw as possible to remove most of the material, before using a boring bar to finish up. Saves time and not nearly as many shavings to clean up, and I have a slug of metal to use for another project. Good luck with your project.


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## goldstar31 (Jun 29, 2020)

The snag with clamps is the need to  add balance weights such as lathe gears.
Much of what has been written is worthwhile but always remember that a lathe was sold with a catchplate, a faceplate  and hard and soft centres. THEN one bought a independent chuck BEFORE going for a 3 jaw self centreing chuck. 

You then went out and purchased a copy of Sparey's book, the Amateurs Lathe- and learned about such things including  how to fashion  a trepanning tool.

 I bough my copy in 1948 when I was ' Aircrafthand( General Duties) which always translated as 'A shithouse wallah' from my FOUR shillings a day.
Makes me think

Norman


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## clockworkcheval (Jun 29, 2020)

Personally I try to avoid single point cutting bigger bores on my lathe (60 year old Schaublin 102 VM). I prefer mounting the piece on a turntable on my mill (25 year old Aciera F3) and milling it out. Depending on the tools you can get amazing precision up to plus minus 0,02 mm in this way.


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## BaronJ (Jun 29, 2020)

SailplaneDriver said:


> Rookie question. I need to bore a 4-inch hole in some flat stock. I think it would be easiest mounted on a faceplate on the lathe. I haven't used a faceplate before and have no experience clamping to it. Is it safe to use the step block clamps we use for the mill on the faceplate if RPM is kept relatively low? My two lowest speeds are 65 and 180 RPM.



Hi,  I would use a hole saw on the drill press with a saw next size down to remove the center piece.  An MDF disc on the face plate held with wood screws from the back and the work piece clamped at the front.  Center the work piece in the same way as you would with a four jaw chuck.  Bore to size as needed.  Any out of balance compensation could be done with weights screwed onto the wood face.

Why make an easy job difficult !


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## SailplaneDriver (Jun 29, 2020)

Thanks for all the input.  The part I was boring was 5" by 5" x 3/4". It is too heavy for glue. The mounting holes I have in the part are only 1/4" and I didn't think they were strong enough for the side forces involved. 

I wound up using 1/2" and 3/8" studs and step clamps boring at 180 RPM and everything went well. I had drilled up to 3/4" and bored up to 3" on the mill then moved to the lathe. I should have done it all on the lathe as it would have been simpler. I will look into trepanning but was spooked by the depth of cut.


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## almega (Jun 29, 2020)

Indeed it would have been easier to do it all on the lathe, but that is how we learn. That size piece, assuming the hole is in the center, would have been fine with 1/4" bolts holding it to the face plate. I'm glad the end result was what you needed.


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## goldstar31 (Jun 30, 2020)

SailplaneDriver said:


> Thanks for all the input.  The part I was boring was 5" by 5" x 3/4". It is too heavy for glue.



I've been sort of interested in 'glues' since I was a school boy at the end of WW2. Over the years, I've noted that the Right glue will hold a RAF Goldstar31 Tornado bomber together- since they were on the Secret List when I was a bright young conscript in 1949.  Since then, the Tornado has gone through the Sound Barrier at Mach1 and through Mach2. The wings stay on- whereas we had a wooden mainspar broken on one of 31 Squadron aircraft following the sexual antics of a fellow corporal.

Too old at 90 now, I've just stuck a steel bar on my mill drill to take the magnets on the gauges X and Y.
I hot glued the thing with a cheap heater blower rather like a hairdryer.

Acknowledging my disgusting old age, I found a supply of shellac pellets and a cake of beeswax to make 'Jewellers Cement'

I obviously have ideas which are not in this book.

Tomorrow, I'm gluing steel slides in a tool and cutter grinder- just for kicks- and to say that it can be done.


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## Cogsy (Jun 30, 2020)

goldstar31 said:


> I've been sort of interested in 'glues' since I was a school boy at the end of WW2. Over the years, I've noted that the Right glue will hold a RAF Goldstar31 Tornado bomber together- since they were on the Secret List when I was a bright young conscript in 1949.  Since then, the Tornado has gone through the Sound Barrier at Mach1 and through Mach2. The wings stay on- whereas we had a wooden mainspar broken on one of 31 Squadron aircraft following the sexual antics of a fellow corporal.



What aircraft are you talking about here? Surely not the Panavia Tornado??


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## goldstar31 (Jul 1, 2020)

Hi Cogsy

TWO aircraft. The Percival Proctor Marks 3 and 4 on 'B' Flight  31 Squadron at RAF. I was 'boss' as the i'c of  Technical Publications etc. I wasn't 19 at the start.  It all happened on a Corporals' Club 'Piss Up'
Beer was 6 pence a pint.

So Back to the 'Mudmovers', I'm still a member of 31 Squadron Association- and the Squadron is actually older the Royal Air Force. In 1948/9 the GR1 was on the Secret list at RAF Warton in Lancashire.

It was like the Canberra bomber at the FarnboroughShow,  The Yanks thought that it was a fighter.

All gone now. Just that model engineering 'game'. Probably now worth a pinch of Chinese snuff.
I was 19- not 90!


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## Cogsy (Jul 1, 2020)

goldstar31 said:


> TWO aircraft. The Percival Proctor Marks 3 and 4 on 'B' Flight  31 Squadron at RAF. I was 'boss' as the i'c of  Technical Publications etc. I wasn't 19 at the start.  It all happened on a Corporals' Club 'Piss Up'



The Percival Proctor is a piston engine plane, not referred to as the 'Tornado' and has a top speed less than 300km/h - not Mach 2. So what was your first post ("_*Over the years, I've noted that the Right glue will hold a RAF Goldstar31 Tornado bomber together- since they were on the Secret List when I was a bright young conscript in 1949. Since then, the Tornado has gone through the Sound Barrier at Mach1 and through Mach2.*_ ") about again??


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## goldstar31 (Jul 2, 2020)

Thanks for the Memory.  The Proctor was a development from the earlier Vega Gull- or seems like that but I recall that a Gull flew from the UK to oZ and crossed the Tasman! Jean Batten had to choose between a life jacket and a revolver.  So be it- heady days.
If I recall correctly the Proctor was powered by a single Gypsy on Hendon's 'B' Flight and was a 3 seater to make room for Rebecca, Gee and Babs where the 4th seat went.
With 'everyone that was anyone at Operation Plainfare- to you The Berlin Airlift, things were sort of left to 4 National Service young lads. Fred Higginson who was the airframe rigger and died in a Proctor crash on the Queen''s Birthday 1949, John A Leggett who was an engine basher and died just before his 50th Birthday, Cpl Arthur Porteous as Tech Wing HQ and me who 'sometimes occupied the Guardroom which later became part of the film 'The Dirty Dozen'
So apart from a friend of mine who was a National Service Flying Officer on the A Flight with Anson 12's and 19's and the 'new' DH Devon C1's, we are the only 2 left.
Some years ago, we were talking about secrecy and he claimed that part of the Officers' Mess was  'out of Bounds' to the officers living in it.

If you want to read up a sort of account that includes my time, read Norman Frank's 'First in the Indian Skies'. Not that accurate but 'hearsay is hearsay' and possibly the amf Tornado Times. The latter was privately printed.

The rest- or my bit, has never been printed but it is at the National Arboretum where the granite 'Star of India' is erected which lists the history. Facing it is the seat dedicated to my late wife's father who fought in Burma with part of the 14th Forgotten Army. The family crest was inappropriate but her name is given as the donor. 

When the memorial was dedicated, the flypast was led by a replica of the old FE2-B, an Anson and followed by the 'mudmovers' with some old codger quipping " I could get a Tornado lower than them"

My story of my Squadron of which I was proud to have served and to as a life member of its Association.


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## tornitore45 (Jul 2, 2020)

For thin parts I rather use lighter clamps that step blocks + clamps + studs.
Cut one leg of a L structural steel ( I have several feet from a bed frame).
The short L side as high as the part thickness, a hole for a holding screw at a suitable position to clamp as close to the part as possible.
The advantage is a much lighter and balanced set up.
If the part is so small that falls in the face-plate hole you need to use wood backing but then if it is so small you can drill it on the mill or DP.


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