# Water Pressure Engine project



## Cedge (Apr 3, 2008)

I mentioned this project had begun on another thread. I was determined to get shots of the engine as it progressed but I still got more engrossed in cutting metal than in taking photos. It finally dawned on me that the camera was sitting there for more than the irritation factor it created by being in the way...LOL. 

The engine is an odd style of oscillator that rocks in a radius instead of up against a flat steam chest surface. The cylinder will pivot within this radius to allow port switching as the crank moves the cylinder rod in a circular motion. 

Below is the cylinder prior to adding the pivot points and the end caps, one of which will soon be fitted as the stuffing box. The end cap contours were cut with a ball cutting tool and a hand made gravier. The Cylinder contours were cut using a series of triangular and bastard files. Everything was then sanded with papers from 100 to 2500 grit and finished off with metal polish. The bore is 13/16" and the stroke is 1 inch on this engine. 13/16 was Hobson's choice once the boring bar chattered its way past the 3/4" mark. Honing the cylinder was done using 600 and 2500 sand paper and a piece of wooden dowel rod. 

Below you'll find my photos of the engine I'm working form, my 3d rendering and the parts I'm making so far.


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## AllThumbs (Apr 3, 2008)

Shiney!

E


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## zeusrekning (Apr 3, 2008)

Lookin good Steve. I still have a had time pictureing how it works, so we will need a video when finished. I wish I could get my cad models that shiny, Mine have no reflection like that. Mabey I need some Brasso on my screen :big: Great work!


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## Bogstandard (Apr 3, 2008)

Lookin' 'groovy' Steve.

Once you start, the pull of the workshop gets greater and greater, so expect a lot of sleepless nights trying to figure how to make the bits.

This project is definitely a 'watcher'

John


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## BobWarfield (Apr 4, 2008)

Wow that's a cool looking engine! Where did you find the thing? What does the vertical chamber do?

I am somehow reminded of the "water hammer" effect on this engine. 

Definitely need a lot more pics to understand it. I am assuming the little radiused part underneath the cylinder in your 3D render is what you refer to as replacing the steam chest? As it rocks it is presumably opening and closing the appropriate passages?

Very intriguing, and an extremely good looking engine as well. I see why you were attracted to it.

Best,

BW


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## Cedge (Apr 4, 2008)

Bob
Your guess was spot on. The engine was designed to run on water, steam or air. The column was there to absorb shock should the water pressure surge... ie. Water Hammer. The radius does indeed serve as the steam chest, switching the ports as the engine rocks in the saddle.

I often get emails offering to sell me engines. This was one of those offers. The owner wanted far more than I wanted to pay for it, but the photos were good enough that I figured I could dig out enough information to try to build one. My collecting has centered around finding engines with unique or unusual mechanical functions, so this one looked like it would fit right in.

Steve


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## BobWarfield (Apr 6, 2008)

Cedge, will you publish plans?

Best,

BW


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## Cedge (Apr 6, 2008)

Bob
Once I know what I've got as a finished engine, I might have to coerce Tim to model it out in Solid Works. Seems that his 3d software might not do all the fancy reflections and shadows that mine will, but his will pop out nice detailed build plans from the 3d image. That, I envy....LOL. 

Until I manage to stumble through the "prototype", I won't actually know what the final dimensions really are.

Steve


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## BobWarfield (Apr 6, 2008)

FWIW, I'd be happy to draw up plans in Rhino3D too!

Best,

BW


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## Cedge (Apr 12, 2008)

I've not been able to stay on the project as much as I'd like, but some progress is being made. The photos below show the first test fitting of the cylinder components as a full assembly. Nothing is bolted together yet but the alignments are looking good. I've also begun the radius bearing for the cylinder side, but it's not ready for photos just yet.

For those interested, the bore lapping is done and the rod and piston are sliding freely and will create enough of a seal to pick up the end cap, when the piston is moved. I'm not yet sure if I'll need to go with a fully working stuffing box, but I've left plenty of room to do so, should it be required.

I'm learning many new things on this project, all the while taking my time and having some fun. I forget who's tag line says "one perfect part at a time", but it's become a bit of a mantra as I work. I kind of like being able to zone in and pay attention to only one part until it is just like I want it, before mentally dealing with the next one. I'm trying to keep the overall context of the project from dominating my head until I need to look at it as a whole. It's a much more satisfying process so far. 

Steve


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## Powder keg (Apr 12, 2008)

Looks like you are getting great finishes there Steve) I can't wait to see how this one comes together. 

Wes


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## Cedge (Apr 13, 2008)

Wes
The preliminary polishing was done to remove most of the tool marks. The photos show the parts after being handled quite a bit, so they are pretty dull at the moment. I'm hoping this one will nearly glow when the final clean up is finished. Black lacquer and brass bright work should keep me polishing and dusting the thing for years to come...LOL Thanks for the kind words. I think it's gonna look downright awesome with your flywheels installed.

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Apr 13, 2008)

Beautiful work Steve, just what I expected from you.

If I could make a suggestion on your build, put the stuffing gland in before going any further. They are needed on double acting engines. As you said in your PM, the graphited string is really nice to play with, but the better half doesn't like black all over the house.

Don't forget to clean the swarf off when it reaches the vice top.

John


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## zeusrekning (Apr 13, 2008)

Steve, It's looking good so far. So what is next? And what size are the srews for the end caps? Wish you the best of luck tapping thoses.
Tim


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## Cedge (Apr 13, 2008)

Tim
Those will be hand tapped at 2-56...in blind holes, so the wish for luck is much appreciated. I've hand tapped a lot of 2-56 in the past, so I'm not quite as nervous as i would have once been. I use a nice new sharp tap and lots of holding my breath....LOL. It's not too bad in brass, but this stuff doesn't behave like normal brass, so the odds of success remains to be seen. 

Steve


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## mklotz (Apr 13, 2008)

Make things easy for yourself. Use a #49 tap drill instead of the recommended #50. A #49 will give you 56% DOT which is plenty for this application and will provide less resistance to the cutting action of the tap.


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## Cedge (Apr 14, 2008)

I made a bit more progress today and learned quite a bit in the process. Getting to watch a boring bar as it cuts will let you see what works in real time. Feed too slow and the bar gets bored and begins to chatter. I found that a nice even 600 RPM on the mill and some surprisingly fast feed rate was what the metal and boring bar were wanting... and no taper once the bar unloads the spring form the first pass or so.

The photos below are my attempt to live up to my own recent request. I asked that someone show us the "how you did it" instead of showing us the "what you did". I'm no Bogstandard and my progress is not nearly as rapid, but here goes. 

The cylinder valve switching is accomplished as the engine "rocks" in a saddle. The photo shows the upper valve block as a 2 inch diameter round, after it has been shaped on the lathe. It's being cut along the center line so that I can measure and mill from an established datum point. This line will also coincide with where the cylinder pivots will be when installed later in the build. This will assure concentricity.






Here is the completed cut. You'll notice I've used the handy carbide blade and arbor which was the subject of a recent tool thread, elsewhere on the forum. It's a sweet little tool and perfect for brass and aluminum. I highly recommend making one if you haven't done so already. Less than $6.00 and you are in business. 






The valve base will be soldered to the cylinder, so a concave cut to match the outer diameter is required. After establishing the center line and squaring things up, the boring bar made short work of what was once an daunting task. The Sieg Super X3 mill never even shuddered and everything stayed where I'd put it so the cut went perfectly. A nice sharp edge on the boring bar also made a huge difference with the interrupted cut.






This photo shows a test fitting of today's fruit. The valve body was leaned up a bit and milled to fit within the end flanges and a relief was cut to allow for the center contour. There is still a bit of hand work to do in order to make it a perfect fit, but a hand file will have it whipped in no time. The other half of the round that you see will soon become the lower saddle half, where the upper section will rock as the cylinder oscillates. 






More to come as things progress....

Marv... where were you about 5 years ago when I had to learn the trick the hard way?....LOL. I probably set some sort of record for broken 2-56 taps when I first began restoring toy engines. I actually discovered your trick by Hobson's choice.... 2:00 am with an engine that had to make a shipping deadline before its owner left the country.

Yup... the #50 bit broke and after cussing a bit, I got the bit out of the hole and found it was my only one. Smaller didn't sound right so bigger was the choice. #49 gets lots of use these days.

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Apr 14, 2008)

Absolutely great stuff Steve.

I can now take a break, knowing you are doing such a good job of howzitdun.

John


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## Cedge (Apr 18, 2008)

I'm pleading "prototype" as I begin this post. The parts made in the last installment, simple stated, turned out to be a mess. It happens...LOL. I remade the saddle sections and achieved a couple of improvements. The radius is a much better fit and I've learned a lot about using the boring head on the mill. The cylinder, where I thought I'd messed up, turned out on the right track, however, I stopped thinking too early. I managed to cut one of the saddles wrong, instead. I recovered the lost ground with no huge problems, but it was an annoying step backwards, none the less. 

The photo below shows the current harvest of parts. All the major components for the cylinder assembly are made, except the pivot posts which will go int the sides of the cylinder. The lower saddle will be cut down some more, once I've determined the center line elevation I want. 

The upper saddle will need a bit more hand work to settle it in as it is supposed to be. The hand work shown in the photo work was required to let the saddle seat deeply into the acute angle of the notch in the center ring. It's a wee bit messy looking , but it will all be unseen soldered surfaces when finally I begin assembling the parts.






The photo below shows a test fitting. All indications seem to have me headed in the "right direction". Everything is meshing well and the centered alignments for everything are dead on. The next step will be to turn and mount the pivots to assure a 2 inch radius at the saddle joint. Then the aluminum base will get some heavy time on the mill, as it begins to take on its new shape. 






This weekend won't see much progress. My grandsons are helping me celebrate my birthday. They've planned a trip to take me to the Atlanta aquarium, which I'm excited about. I got to admit, the 6 year old demanding "Papa" have a large Sponge Bob Square Pants cake has already made it memorable...LOL. Heck of a cute cake and the Sponge Bob character that topped the cake apparently has a new permanent home sitting in front of my computer monitor...LOL

Steve


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## BobWarfield (Apr 18, 2008)

That aquarium is cool! 

BW


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## Bogstandard (Apr 19, 2008)

Nice one Steve,

If it can be put right, it was never wrong in the first place, it was just a learning trial that wasn't quite right.

I tend to do a lot of that.

John


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## John S (Apr 19, 2008)

Make the drawings from the finished project and you will never make a mistake ;D

Impressive engine, I can see why you have been attracted to it.

.


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## zeusrekning (Apr 19, 2008)

Good looking pieces Steve. They seem to fit together well.
Happy B-day, hows it feel to be 45?  By the way I checked out your main site. Really good pictures there and I'm assuming those marvelous looking kids are your grandchildren? Have fun in ATL.
Tim


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## Cedge (Apr 26, 2008)

The Water Engine project is going smoothly as parts begin to pile up and test fittings begin in earnest. Today I tackled the crank shaft using the multi piece method that Bogstandard shared on another thread. 

The hot rolled steel crank discs were sized, center drilled, reamed and then cut off using the lathe. 3/16 drill rod was inserted into the two discs, and super glue was used to hold them together. The parts were centered in the mill where the second holes were drilled in both with one shot by moving off center .500 inches to establish a 1 inch cylinder stroke. 

Since I had no solder flux on hand, I tried Marv's green loctite to secure the two pieces of drill rod. I also learned that green loctite doesn't like residual cutting oils any better than the red stuff does...(grin). After a quick disassembly, some cleaning and a fresh application of the green stuff, the crank is as stiff as if it had been soldered and Bogster's technique, once the center rod was milled away, gave me a nice crank with next to zero run out. I really like the ease of machining this design offers.

The counter weight lobe profile was chosen for visual effect and might need some adjustment once the engine has been test run. The look was achieved by use of a ball end mill and a bit of patience. It's ready for a final bout of cleaning and polishing, which will have to wait for the moment. 








As you'll notice, I've not secured anything yet. All the cylinder pieces fit, so far, but still require a bit of handling as I work. I'll be adding fasteners soon, but I've held off, just in case something bad came up, requiring that I reproduce one of the parts. Basically, it means fewer fiddly steps to get back to where things went bad. 

This means the parts in the photos are simply stacked together for test fits and photos. I'm fast approaching the part of the project that will require me to locate and drill a few holes along the center line of the cylinder at its intended elevation. Since I've not yet secured all those loose parts, I was wondering how I'd get an accurate measurement when the time came. 

The aluminum base is nicely squared so I placed a machinist square atop the cylinder and squared it against the end of the base. This assured that the centerline is parallel to the base and at the proper elevation. A spot of superglue here and there temporarily secured the parts from moving about. Now I can measure the stack and subtract half the cylinder diameter to determine where the centerline is and where the holes will be needed for installing the crank shaft, as well as the pivot points for the cylinder support arms.






Previous photos made it hard to get an idea of how large this project will be when completed. I place a quarter in the photo to give a better sense of scale. While the engine has a 1 inch stroke and a 13/16 bore, its not really a very large machine. 

With a bit of luck, I'm hoping to have the crank shaft installation roughed in tomorrow, so that I can begin location of the steam ports. It's also time to begin buttoning things into single assemblies so they can be secured in their required positions.

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Apr 26, 2008)

Coming along just fine there Steve. You will soon have the basic engine made at the rate you are going.

John


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## Cedge (Apr 27, 2008)

John
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'm pretty much working from inside my head (a dark dank and sticky place if ever there was one) on this project, but it is coming along much better than i figured it would. It's abit more stright forward then the Elbow project and a whole lot more forgiving...LOL. 


Beginning to look like an Engine instead of just a bunch parts.






I finally got the cylinder rod shortened, threaded and fitted with a clevis type big end. The clevis was turned on the lathe to get the contours I wanted, including a hemispheric ball cut on the end. It was then moved to the mill where the side flats were cut to fit within the 5/16" gap between the crank web. After tapping the end cap holes the clevis was cut and refitted together for drilling the temporary crank shaft/ indexing holes. 

The elevation measurements were spot on, from the last photos showing the square atop the cylinder. This made it easy to locate he needed holes and the crank mounted up right at the level needed. Everything appears to be true and squared.

The base is beginning to take shape after spending a bit of time boring some of the curves into the uprights. Super glue, and a small C clamp held the pair together as they were surface matched with a few quick fly cuts and then bored, using interrupted cuts, as a single unit to make sure all matching surfaces were identical. 

The uprights were then fitted to the base and the base marked for boring. The cuts were not too bad considering the amount of metal removed. The front edges are a hint as to the direction things will go. The hard edges are to be rounded and blended to give some approximation of a casting when completed. 

Still lots of curves left to cut away from the uprights and plenty of hand file work to come. Tomorrow will see me dealing with soldering and threading numerous 2-56 holes, as I begin to button up a few of the loose ends.

Steve 

Steve


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## zeusrekning (Apr 28, 2008)

Well Steve I can almost see that little engine rocking back and forth now.Can't wait to how it turns out.
Tim


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## Bernd (Apr 28, 2008)

Lookin' real good there Steve. Can't wait to see it run.

Bernd


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## Cedge (May 17, 2008)

Well... it's been a few days since I shared the progress I've been making. After a couple of remakes due to silly stuff like forgetting to tighten the vise, I'm suddenly finding myself nearing the "end" of the "roughing in" period. Bits and pieces like the uprights are already receiving a bit of rounding off and are taking on something close to their final look.

The photos below show the little engine at the point where things have gone from parts, to pieces which are now being permanently bolted in place. The uprights are now where they belong and tied down. This allowed me to begin the side arms this afternoon . They are in the very first stages of fabrication and will have soon get bit more time on the curve jig for rounded ends and some tricky tapering. The cylinder base saddle is next to be bolted down and then I can locate the valve ports and 

I still have quite a bit of detailing to do as I go along and it looks like lots of cleaning and polishing are in my future.





















I'll be happy to answer any questions concerning the "how" if you'll let me know what you want to know. I'm afraid I'm not quite up to speed on this step by step photo thing just yet...LOL

Steve


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## Bogstandard (May 17, 2008)

Steve, that engine is starting to look really lucious.

The way you are producing this from a no plans exercise is intriguing.

Have you been doing a bit of copper plating?, if so, maybe the title of bling king is deserved.

John


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## chuck foster (May 17, 2008)

holy smokes steve that is very impressive workmanship indeed :bow: :bow:

i like to see diffrent types/styles of engines and this one is in a league of its own.  8)

i really like the photos and narration of the build.

please keep us posted on the progress ;D

chuck


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## zeusrekning (May 17, 2008)

Steve, looks like you're getting there. I think the copper water hammer came out great. We spoke about using the different brass's being an issue but the cylinder looks great with those endcaps on it. Have you used the graphite cord yet? You are making two of these things aren't you?  

To everyone else, I got to go over to Cedges place last week and drool over his toys. A great experience! What he is not telling you is he has a massive collection of very unique engines. His wife has to be a very understanding lady. His house is full of engines tastefully displayed.
If any of you are new to the steam/model engine hobby as I then you may also have a difficult time with visualizing scale of his models. So I was truly amazed after seeing how large some of the engines were. His website is great with more detailed explanations of how all these engines work. So I highly recommend checking his site out.
And Bogstandard, I think when this thing is done we may have Bling King race on our hands.
Tim


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## Cedge (May 18, 2008)

John
Nope... no plating on this one. The red cast on the cylinder is from a bit of soldering I did earlier today to adjust one of the pivot studs I wasn't satisfied with. The flux I use turned things that color, but it comes off fairly easy. The other piece is turned from real copper. The cylinder will polish back to a high shine once I'm done putting finger prints all over it.

You'll always be the Bling Miester to those of us who know and disrespect ya...LOL

Chuck....
Thanks for the kind words. I'm truly enjoying this little project, so I'm taking my time with it. I'm breaking new ground each time I fire up the machines to tear off more metal. A whole lot of what I'm doing is new to me, but I'm learning that I can do it as I go. Thanks for sharing in the fun.

Tim...
So far the brass color thing has been only been of minimal problem. There are some slight variations that I'm getting away with because the pieces are not side by side or they have distinct enough functions that I can claim its a "bearing surface". My poor long suffering wife puts up with me and my toys with few complaints..... as long as I don't ask her to dust either. However, the carpet diamonds are beginning to wear her patience thin...LOL

Steve


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## Cedge (May 19, 2008)

The project has certainly reached the point where things don't lie. It's either right, or it doesn't fit. So far my mental gymnastics have held up and everything is fitting up quite nicely.

Most of the machining I've done so far has been things we all do, so the "how to" stuff was not very interesting. However tonight's installment is a "how to" that shows Marv's contribution to my arsenal of tools. The rounding table has been getting a work out and so far I can't come up with any changes to make to the littlel devil. 

I've learned that it does two functions exceedingly well. It's perfect for rounding off an end and for rounding less than complete circles. These are both done using the first function. The Second talent it has is for cutting tapers or angles on flat stock.

The Water pressure engine utilizes two arms which provide a pivot point for the cylinder, allow tension to be applied to the valve body to form a seal and it allows the cylinder to be swung off the valve for "maintenance". They also hold nearly everything, but the crank shaft, in its proper place.

Since these arms are a "first seen" item, I want them to look good and contribute something more than functionality to the engine overall . That's where Marv's table is proving to be the cats whiskers.

The photos below show these arms in various stages of fabrication and the two functions I've already mentioned.


Rounding of the end of the arm is as simple as moving the work piece on the pivot, but real care needs to be taken to keep hands far from the end mill and shallow cuts are a must. you'll note that I've stacked the work pieces and pinned them together with dowel pins. This allows me to cut both pieces at once and it helps assure the pieces are identical. It also allows me to use the same cutter height on both sides without having to reset it. This photos shows the second arm after being cut to roughly its final thickness and the raised section of the rounded end






The raised end will be readily visible, so a small ball end mill was used to "step" the profile to add some interest. As you can see, the tool allows for full 360 degree cuts but it also allows for cutting to any point in its arc. I scribed a line at .100 and simply cut until the line was reached to create a "neck". 






The next photos are from a bit earlier in the process and show the other nice function this tool can give you. I wanted the arms to look a bit more structural than if they had been left with flat surfaces. I had already cut the outside taper on the mill by resting the small dowel pin on the vise top and then adjusting emd mill to "blend" at the " neck line" of the round end. I then adjusted the angle to let he end mill escape its cut at the center of the middle hole. 

Now I wanted to duplicate this line .075 from the edges of the arm. After scribing the lines, I swept the edge of the work piece with the ball end mill to align the arm along the cut path. Then the end mill was moved to the interior of the line and the cut was made from front to back. The second angle was then set up the same way, by sweeping the opposite side. The rest was just cutting away the center metal. I cut each arm singly only because I had just messed up the small bushing I'd been using to index the center hole. This process could have been done with the arms pinned together, just as easily, if not more so.






Here is the results of the cut, so far. 






Here are the arms being test fitted after machining , but before they are polished. I will be cutting the web on the short ends of the arms tomorrow, It's definitely not something to do when you are tired or distracted. A fresh start in the morning, after a good night's sleep is what the doctor ordered tonight. 






Marv... I really do love this tool...LOL

Steve


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## Bogstandard (May 19, 2008)

Lovely stuff Steve, isn't it a lovely feeling when you get used to a new fixture?, and it starts to allow you to do more and more.

From your previous post, about the carpets. My wife is now so fed up with sparkly carpets, she has laid the law down, and we are getting rid of them, and putting down decorative ceramic instead. It will be easier on her as she will only have to get down on hands and knees to scrub them clean, rather than vacuum, as she does at the moment. I will never understand a womans reasoning.

John


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## Cedge (May 19, 2008)

John
Three years ago I wasn't even sure I'd enjoy this hobby. I bought the machines knowing I might wind up selling them at a loss if I didn't like doing it, but at least my curiosity would have been settled.

When I found this board I was still struggling with rudimentary things and the mill was not any sort of friend. I jumped in way over my head more than once and fought off the alligators all the way to the edge of the swamp. Posts like yours have cleared up a lot of mysteries and given me ideas that I'd have gotten no other way. Don't get me wrong... I still struggle with things and do a lot of it the hard way, but each project gives me a bit more knowledge and the courage to use it. 

Will this little engine run?... who knows... its the journey that I'm enjoying, not the destination. I get just as much joy from a well made tool as I do the engines I so much want to build. Having one perform the yeoman's duty that this one has is a very satisfying thing that I can enjoy each time I use it in a new way.

I'll never figure women out. If I did I'd just wonder all the more as to why she chose me...LOL. Mine is pretty unique. She'd rather have a good power tool to add to her growing collection than the best offering at Victoria's Secret. She asked for a chainsaw for Christmas, a Makita cordless drill for mothers day and this weekend she decided she wanted a back pack style leaf blower.... so off to Home Depot we went. I'm quite happy to let her use my tools, but we still have a fair number of his and hers tools laying about. Hell... you just don't find em like her...LOL. 

Steve


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## Paolo (May 19, 2008)

Hi Steve... have you any drawing of your nice table?
TY Paolo


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## zeusrekning (May 19, 2008)

Steve those arms really set it off. I bet if you glass bead you would not know they weren't cast.
Tim


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## Circlip (May 19, 2008)

Carefully tiptoeing in here Steve but your "Tuit" list should really include some proper cutter holders for the milling cutters rather than the drill chuck. It would be heartbreaking to see a cutter "Walking" out of the chuck. On my modelers type Auto Lock I made some adaptors for the small plain shank cutters with a grubscrew to lock into the notch. Regards Ian.


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## Cedge (May 19, 2008)

Ian
You caught me being a little bit lazy. I have an ER 40 collet set but I was switching bits so quickly to make a number of different light cuts that I left the drill chuck in for convenience. I just looked back across the project photos and it seems as if the drill chuck is all that was being used. Trust me... having had end mills take a walkabout I know what you mean. 

I think one of my next purchases is going to be a set of R8 Collets. I have really come to like the ease of use with the R8 setup on this machine.... much nicer than the MT3 on the old X2 machine.

Tim
I'm considering several ideas for finishing the webs. Glass beading is one of them. Rounding the edges has already begun to give it some of that cast look.

Paolo
I don't have any drawings, but I'll be quite happy to take it apart and shoot some photos. It's really a pretty simple design with few parts and only one or two "critical" dimensions. It's basically the same as the one Marv shared in an earlier post, but I used a round top instead of the rectangular one he used. It's definitely worth the time and metal to build.

Steve


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## Paolo (May 19, 2008)

Thanks a lot Steve It would be nice... :bow:
Paolo


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## Cedge (May 19, 2008)

Today I took things easy, but I got a bit done to the engine and made a couple of choices in direction. 

The photo below shows the engine after the machining was completed on the side arms. The webs have been cut and contoured, with some preliminary polishing begun. I'm pleased with the visual aspect they lend to the machines.

I hadn't tried a flywheel on the engine until last night, just before calling it a night. I fitted a 4 ich commercial flywheel on the crank shaft and it just didn't look right. The engine looked too elongated and, for lack of a better description, "spidery". Definitely not what I was looking for. I had a 5 inch flywheel on the shelf, so I slid it onto the shaft. The engine pretty much told me that the larger flywheel was where we'd be going . The wheel falls along the same line as the old wood cut I've been working from. 

Having had a bit of success in building a multi piece flywheel for the Elbow engine project, I'll probably be doing the same for this one. I spoke with Wes (Powderkeg) this evening and his schedule is pretty heavily booked for now, so if he has a 5 inch pattern to cast, I'll possibly swap mine out for one of his curved spoke designs at some later date. No rush, Wes... I'm not wanting the project to end right away and besides, I need the practice....LOL.

Enough jaw boning... here's the photo showing the test fitting of the flywheel and the "finished" side arms.

Steve


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## Cedge (Jun 26, 2008)

After an extended delay to get Bogster's finger engine challenge inspired projects put to bed, I'm finally back on the Water engine project again. The break gave me a chance to study the project a bit and to make sure all was as it should be. The components are now finding their final homes and getting bolted down. The plumbing and porting are both making progress and so far, all is going well. The photo below shows the engine during a test fitting of the air chamber. The red marks which will be used to locate the upper cylinder ports.






Here is a detail shot of the freshly installed copper plumbing. These were press fit for a nice tight seal, since solder was not an option. The holes were drilled at different elevations so that they would not interfere with each other. 







This photo shows the lower ports along with a detailed look at how the lower saddle was attached. The original idea was to bolt it from the bottom, but this would have collided with the plumbing ports. Just another example of how a project like this will sometimes dictate its own evolutionary requirements. There have been surprisingly few instances where such changes were required for this engine, but I'm "listening" to it as I go and I'm not so stuck to any idea that I am unwilling to change things as the project tells me it's needed.






This engine has a neat ability to allow the cylinder to swing away for maintenance. The two small red marks in the upper valve body are there to locate the two ports. This will be the next step, followed by the studs in the cylinder ends. Other small details yet to be done include bolt up flanges for the copper lines, the tension bar to hold the cylinder down, bronze bearing blocks for the crankshaft and a few decorative details as yet undetermined.






Hopefully I can get a few days worth of work in on the project and begin buttoning things up. I'm currently debating on how I'll go with the flywheels. The one shown is used only as a mock up to give me a visual idea of how the finished project will look.

Steve


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## BobWarfield (Jun 27, 2008)

That's really an interesting and unique engine, Cedge. It'll be quite a nice piece when finished.

Cheers,

BW


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## Cedge (Jun 27, 2008)

Thank you Bob. That is the goal, as I add to the collection. I've even begun considering weeding out some of the casting engines from the group, as I become able to build my own versions. The ideal would be a whole collection of unique, built from stock, engines, but I'd really be hard put to let go of some of the casting engines I've managed to acquire. 

Now, I've got to get this one to the smoke testing phase....(grin)

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Jun 28, 2008)

Steve,

You have really amazed me with this build, from some crappy old line drawings and a few pics, you have managed to get an engine that replicates the original almost perfectly.
It should be a fine addition to your collection.

John


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## Cedge (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks John
Half the challenge has been the lack of any drawings, but it's also been half the fun. I've learned more about how steam engines were designed from this project than any so far.  I'm not nearly as intimidated by the prospect of taking on more complicated builds now. I'll have to admit it's turning out much closer to the original than I expected it to. It has also raised the bar on my own expectations for myself. 

Thanks for the encouragement....it's kept me going when the corners I'd boxed myself into got a wee bit tight. It's pretty hard to shelve a project when you have a cheering section...LOL

Steve


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## chiliviking (Jun 28, 2008)

The words "museum quality" come to mind when I look at this marvel. You are an extremely patient man!


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## BobWarfield (Jun 28, 2008)

Castings are neat too. The texture is pretty hard to reproduce from bar, althogh I bet there are ways. I've almost accomplished it accidentally! LOL

I sure wish you'd put out a set of drawings for this one. It's awfully intriguing.

Cheers,

BW


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## Cedge (Jun 28, 2008)

Bob
Drawings are not my strong suit, but once the engine is running and proven, I'll be looking into the idea. I'm great at modeling in 3d, but frankly, I'm pretty lousy when it comes to translating that to 2d build drawings anyone could read or even trust. I'd probably have to recruit Tim to even come close.

Steve


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## zeusrekning (Jun 28, 2008)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> I'd probably have to recruit Tim to even come close.
> 
> Steve



I'm always up for that. And I would love to have this beauty on my list of to-do's.


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## BobWarfield (Jun 29, 2008)

I'd be happy to help too with the drawings.

I'm pretty comfortable with whatever "D" you prefer:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/MTCNCRhinoPen.htm

LOL, 

BW


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## Cedge (Jul 18, 2008)

It seems like these posts get further and further between, but the small stuff seems to take more time as the project progresses. A lot has been accomplished since the last post, although none of it is of the large or dramatic variety. A good bit of detail work is yet to come, but the photos below will share where things are up to now.

One of the items I was almost dreading was drilling the upper cylinder ports. The drill would have to cross a rather long solder joint and the potential for a broken drill bit was not something I was thrilled about. 

I began by locating and drilling the holes beneath the cylinder. This was done by marking the existing ports on the side of the lower valve saddle and rocking the the cylinder to pin point the maximum travel. At that point one of the ports would be located over the bottom center port. When marked and rotated the opposite direction, the the other cylinder port could be marked as it also matched up to the center bottom port. Once marked, both holes could be easily centered and drilled. It was quite interesting to let the little engine show me where they would need to go.






The ports then needed to travel out to the ends of the cylinders. This is where the rectal tension factor increased. The high angle of attack the drill bit would have to follow across the soldered gap between the cylinder and the saddle had me sweating a bit. I began by milling a small flat perpendicular to the line of travel. Nothing hard there since the drill angle had already been established. All that the flat required was normal milling.

A quick shot with the center drill and it was time to make the holes that would tie the ports together. Fortunately the operation was a complete success, but I was holding my breath until the solder chips from the joints gave over to nice fresh brass again. 

This photo also shows the end cap studs I chose to use. These are screwed into 2-56 tpi hand tapped blind holes which stop just shy of exiting the flanges by .010 in. The studs are commercial threaded rod I had on hand. A tedious operation but one that went quite smoothly, with no broken taps.






The next item needing attention was the rear tension mechanism that serves to hold the rear of the cylinder down when the engine is running. It also allows access to the saddle for lubrication and such.

The lower clevis was machined as one piece, using the mill and Marv's marvelous rounding table idea. ...did I really pun that? The transverse holes allowed rounding at 90° angle to each other. This would have been difficult, if not impossible, without it. The vertical stem was also turned as one piece using the ever popular ball turning tool. The flats were milled and drilled on the milling machine and the 4-40 upper thread was hand cut using a 4-40 die. 

The ball on the cross bar was soldered in place and then the slot was milled out, leaving the piece solid enough to do its job. The piece above the cross bar serves as a spacing bezel to give the soon to be made hand wheel clearance above the oscillating cylinder end.





Here is another view of the tie down assembly. The cross bar will eventually be held in lateral position by a pair of 2-56 hex head cap screws through the tops of the pivot arm ends. The lower clevis was soldered in position after being fitted with an extension to the copper pipe.






The photo below shows the assembled engine components at the present time. Small things like the brass caps on the pivot arm pins will add a bit of additional visual detail to enjoy. The crank shaft will soon have brass or bronze pillow blocks and some type of oilers are planned for the motion points of the little motor.







Still a quite bit of detailing left to do, but the project is nearing completion. I've already test run the engine on air and it is sewing machine smooth. I can't wait to see it running again once the large flywheel(s) is/are installed.

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Jul 18, 2008)

Take as long as you like Steve, standing here in awe.

Good things come to those who wait, and we sure are waiting with baited breath on this one.
Wonderful workmanship, even in the rough. I dread to think what it will look like when you have a cleanup session on it. Awesome.

John


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## Powder keg (Jul 19, 2008)

Looking very, very, nice Steve)

Wes


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## Cedge (Jul 19, 2008)

Thanks guys. I'm not quite sure it deserves anything like awe but, I'm quite pleased that it's being well received. I'm going to miss working on this one, once it's done, but the next project engine has already begun to occupy my mind. Now to find enough space to display them as I get them built.

Steve


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## Divided He ad (Jul 19, 2008)

I've been waiting to see more pictures of this one Steve, I love the shapes and all those curves ;D 

Can't wait to see the finished article   (still no need to rush though  )


Ralph.


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## CallMeAL (Jul 19, 2008)

Wow! This is coming together nicely. Wonderful detailing on the parts. Looks like something you would find in Jules Verne novel! 20,000 leagues under the sea! ;D


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## Cedge (Jul 28, 2008)

Summer seems to mean less time, rather than more, to get into the shop and tinker. I finally got a bit of uninterrupted time last night and before I knew it, the clock was showing almost 4:00 am. Talk about getting lost in your work, this short installment was both intricate and entertaining.... not to mention, very instructive.

The rear hold down on the engine needed a means to secure it when I last posted, so I took on the challenge of making one that would visually fit the engine. It took a few days for me to decide on what I wanted it to look like and several ideas were considered and rejected. The results of the effort can be seen below.

The hand wheel idea won out, but it couldn't be a normal "flat plane" design. It had to clear the operating arc of the cylinder, mate to the previously made bezel and look old fashioned. I decided to try for a "dish" with spokes. Having never milled a spoked flywheel, choosing to do something less than the size of a dime seemed just about par for "never do it the easy way, Steve". If it's not a challenge, then it's not much fun. 






A dime is the smallest US coin and measures 17.85 mm. The hand wheel measures 1/2 inch in diameter which got to feeling a wee bit tight as things progressed. The contour was turned on the lathe and then moved to my little homemade indexing table for milling. I recently bought a set of carbide end mills which included a 1/16 inch 4 flute cutter. This is what was used to cut out the spokes to .05 width. The edges were hand filed to round them off and bring them down to proper scale. 






This photo of the rear end view gave me some satisfaction. Everything is falling in place with good symmetry. The visual look is still headed in the right direction and Steve is a very happy camper. Some of you might notice the spring in the previous photos is missing. It proved to be less than properly functional, so it was eliminated.






Here is the side view with the cylinder held down in place. The hand wheel was easier than I'd expected, but it did manage to keep me on my toes, working in such a confined space. However, I'll be a lot less apprehensive when it comes time to try making a one piece spoked flywheel. That should feel like I'm working with huge amounts of room.






Steve


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## zeusrekning (Jul 28, 2008)

Steve, that looks great.Glad to see all the hard work and long nights are paying off. I think this engine will fit you collection well. 
Actually you may be diminishing the value of your investment on bought engines when you start adding things like this to your collection ;D
Tim
Back to work.


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## CrewCab (Jul 28, 2008)

Just awesome Steve ............. and that little hand wheel is a work of art in itself 8) :bow:

CC


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## Divided He ad (Jul 28, 2008)

Steve..... :bow: That is one good looking Wheel.... I do like the curves ;D

Tim is right, Your collection will have a well fitting piece. This really is a very desirable engine you are building, as I said before ' Can't wait to see the finished article' ;D 


Just one question... Is a dime really 17.85mm ??? looks significantly smaller to me!  



Keep up the outstanding work ;D 



Ralph.


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## Bogstandard (Jul 28, 2008)

Who's posing for the crowd now Steve?

I won't tell everyone that you can buy them little handwheels at Walmart for 25cents :big: :big: :big:

Joking aside, nice work, now you are well prepared for the big stuff.

Next stop, Marv's flywheel prog.

Bogsie


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## chuck foster (Jul 28, 2008)

great job steve..................ignore bogs he's just envious of your work 

all joking aside very nice work you should be very proud of your accomplishment's :bow:

 chuck
 (adding another build to the list) :big:


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## Cedge (Jul 28, 2008)

Chuck...
I'm cutting Saint Boggler some slack right now. Haven't you heard?.... he ain't got no machine tools?....(innocent grin). I'll get a fair go at him, once he's back in the game for real...LOL

Thanks guys. Here is where I gotta admit to surprising myself. The whole project has gone super well. I'm doing a whole lot of new things that I once doubted I could do. This one has become a real confidence builder, as I get myself cornered and and have to think my way out of the bind.

I must have mentally machined that little hand wheel a few dozen times before I ever chucked up the lathe and another few dozen before it went over to the milling machine. I'm quickly learning to "make one perfect part at a time"..... as one board member's tag line suggested. The results are amazing to me.... and I'm still a little stunned that my own clumsy hands are creating this.

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Jul 29, 2008)

> great job steve..................ignore bogs he's just envious of your work



You wouldn't believe just how much.

I have already told Steve privately how much I admire his work, not just on this engine, but everything he makes. He is starting to becoming a true artisan.

Now about this no machines caper...............

Bogs


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## tmuir (Jul 30, 2008)

Can't really add much but, Wow, great work.

I don't even think I would trust myself to polish an engine like you are making let alone contemplate building one.
Keep the photos coming


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## Cedge (Jul 30, 2008)

Tony..
Not a problem. I've got plenty of other engines for you to practice your polishing techniques on. Just show up and I'll supply all the polish and flannel...LOL. Having seen your first attempts, it won't be long at all before you are making just about anything you could want. Keep in mind that 3 years ago I'd never even touched a machine tool. I was, however, hell on wheels with my old Chinese drill press...LOL 

Thanks for all the kind words
Steve


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## rake60 (Jul 30, 2008)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> Keep in mind that 3 years ago I'd never even touched a machine tool.
> 
> Steve



Steve I have been operating machine tools for 30 years and I am simply 
amazed by that hand wheel! 

That is craftsmanship far beyond the skills of any job shop machinist
I've ever known. Myself included! :bow:

Rick


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## Cedge (Jul 31, 2008)

Rick
I'm not quite sure what to say after a compliment like that, except to offer a humble thank you. It's not often I'm to be found at a loss for words....LOL. Ya really gotta love this place.

Steve


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## Cedge (Aug 4, 2008)

Three digit temperature indexes combined with high humidity have made things a bit slow around the shop for a few days, but I've managed to get a little more done. In sad fact, the project is beginning to wind down. I'll be ordering flywheel castings this week so that I can button the little fellow up. Then the final tear down for a careful polishing and some painting will begin. 

Oilers, lock down bolts and crank bearings were the projects undertaken since I last posted. The oilers are 3/8" tall and 3/16 in diameter. They are working wick type oilers and are only lacking caps to be complete. Two more oilers await mounting and will grace the crank shaft bearing caps when I get back to work. I've still got to fabricate a bleeder bowl for the top of the cylinder and a "pipe flange" to mount the water hammer dome. Like I said... the end of the project is definitely within sight. Below are several views of the recent progress. 

Steve


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## Mcgyver (Aug 4, 2008)

I like your sense of design, looks good!


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## Brass_Machine (Aug 4, 2008)

Wow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Nuff said.

Eric


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## Bogstandard (Aug 5, 2008)

Ummm, well, I suppose....., not bad, a bit limited, after all it is only a wobbler.


These are a few jealous sort of quotes, but in my view, to start with a few scraps of metal and ragarse line pictures, and also with you being a relative newbie : :big: ;D, I think you deserve my services motto.

Per Ardua Ad Astra


You know what it means, and you have shown it is possible.

Tongue out and salivating down my t-shirt, waiting for the vid.

Humbled Boglet


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## Divided He ad (Aug 5, 2008)

WOW! ..... I'll just spell check that.... WOW!.... Yep thats correct!! ;D :bow: ;D 




Ralph.


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## Cedge (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks guys!!
True... she's a humble little wobbler, but at least she's a well dressed one...LOL. Other than a few small little things that only you and I know about, it's been a pretty darned successful project. The last of the oilers were added last night and I've spotted the flywheels I'll be ordering. I'm going to let her rest a day or two before I begin the tear down for the final polishing and clean up phase. 

After talking to several engine collectors, a small problem was noted. No one seems to be able to define exactly what style of engine it actually is. It's an oscillator , but not as we commonly see them, so no one seems to know how to classify it once it's put on my web site. So far it's been called a "rocker valve", a "rotary oscillator", a "radial oscillator", a "saddle valve oscillator" and a "hybrid oscillator"..... none of which seem exactly right. Anyone have ideas?

Steve


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## Bogstandard (Aug 5, 2008)

Steve,

Partial Rotary Valve - PRV.
Arc Induced Oscillator - AIO.
Linear Motion Arc Valved Oscillator - LMAVO.
Curved Valve Double Acting Oscillator - CVDAO.

Or even combinations of above.

Partial Rotary Arc Induced Linear Motion Curved Valve Double Acting Oscillator - PRAILMCVDAO.

Do you need any more?, or just maybe call it "The Water Engine" - TWE.

Bogs


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## mklotz (Aug 5, 2008)

My vote's for AWE - Awesome Water Engine


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## DickDastardly40 (Aug 6, 2008)

Fantastic effort!

I believe it should be referred to as August's Engine of the Month! (or September's if the one above is August's and not July's ;D )

Al


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## Dick L. (Aug 8, 2008)

Great job Steve! Very nice looking engine. Can't wait for the video.

        Dick


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## Cedge (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Hopefully I'll get her finished up soon. Only a few small things left to do. I gave it a round of polishing over the past day or so and should finish making her shine this weekend. Then it's time to decide what I'm doing for flywheels. Here is a shot of the engine after about 90% of the hand polishing is completed.

The original idea was to paint the aluminum base in black lacquer to highlight all the brass works, but my wife informed me that I would not be putting any paint on "Her Engine", the other night. Two builds under my belt and I've yet to build "me" an engine...LOL

Steve


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## J. Tranter (Aug 8, 2008)

That is one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen. Awesome work.
John T.


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## Brass_Machine (Aug 9, 2008)

Steve,

Are you going to release drawings for this? I would so like to try my hand at building this engine over the next year.

Eric


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## malcolmt (Aug 9, 2008)

Truly stunning :bow: :bow: :bow: Much worship.

Kind regards

Malcolm


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## Cedge (Aug 10, 2008)

As I previously mentioned, this enjoyable project is winding down rapidly. I want to take a moment to say a huge thank you for all of you who've shared the journey. As I look at the view tally for this thread, I'm both amazed and humbled that so many have watched my efforts. To those who posted, as well as those who simply read along, I extend a profound thank you for the encouragement your posts and visits have shared.

It's a wee bit scary to begin a project and put your successes and your failures right out there in front of everyone. This is the second time I've done so and I want to encourage anyone who is contemplating a build, no matter how simple or complex to give this a try. Not only will it motivate you to complete the project, but the incredible level of ideas and assistance that other board members offer makes it much easier to overcome any problems one encounters.

I'm posting the final photos to this long thread tonight. The next photos (and hopefully video) will be in the Photos and videos area, once I have the flywheels for the engine. Wes has promised that he will get them to me when things settle down a bit, for him, and his wife is back on her feet. I've told him to take his time and deal with the priority items in his life for now. We can all enjoy the final version when the time comes to do so.

The photos shown below are of the engine in its "final" configuration. Final, meaning that the last home fabricated parts have been made and fitted. There will be a small drain cock mounted atop the cylinder but it will be a commercially available item which has yet to be ordered. The oiler cups have been fitted with caps and the water hammer dome is now permanently mounted. With a bit of hand polishing to a couple of spots, this little engine will join the collection and hold a starring place in the roster.

Again.... thanks to all of you for the kind words of encouragement, the priceless bits and bobs of advice and for simply sharing in the fun.

Steve


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## Dhow Nunda wallah (Aug 26, 2008)

I'm impressed sir
Shiny!

Magnificent work.


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## ChooChooMike (Aug 26, 2008)

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Very sweet looking engine ! Can't wait to see the video !

Gives me some incentive to finish my latest engine. It's been sitting due to my laziness in getting it all polished up 

Mike


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## Cedge (Aug 26, 2008)

Dhow...
Thanks for the good words. I do prefer my metal to have a bit of gleam to it. 

Choo
I'm hoping to get a video of it, once I have the fly wheels. Hopefully things will settle down enough for Wes that he can get them cast in the near future. She's a runner, for sure.

Steve


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## Divided He ad (Aug 27, 2008)

I like the look of this machined marvel Steve... Tell me when are you going to polish it ? 8)  8) 

When you say it is a runner for sure, does that mean you have tested it? (and not showed us because you want it to be a full super edited ulube vid?) 

Well I read it and figured I'd ask!


It is one very good looking beastie, I as everyone else await it's full unveiling ;D 



Ralph.


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## rake60 (Aug 27, 2008)

I've been looking at these pictures for a long time and I'm looking very much
forward to seeing a video of it running.

Very well done Steve!
You've outdone yourself with this one.
You do realize that just means you've raised the bar on what we expect to 
see next, don't you? 

Rick


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## ChooChooMike (Aug 27, 2008)

This engine will be a shoo-in for *Engine of the Month* !!


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## sivankov (Sep 23, 2008)

Inspiring!


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