# What should I buy



## b.lindsey (Aug 21, 2009)

Hi Glenn,
Personally I prefer separate machines rather than the combos. After that a lot will depend on what size projects (engines) you plan on building. Another thing to consider it the availability of accessories for whatever you decide. That isn't usually a big problem since there are so many 3rd party businesses out there now that cater to home shop machinist's. Obviously budget makes a difference too. I think most here will say to get as large as you can afford (you can do small parts on bigger machines but not the other way around). But then again, I do probably 75% of what I do on Sherline equipment; I tend to like smaller engines though. 

Can you give some idea of the types of things you want to do thinking beyond the first project or two?

Regards and welcome to the forum.

Bill


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## cfellows (Aug 21, 2009)

I think most folks would agree that you should start with a lathe. It is considered the queen of machine tools (shouldn't that be king?). Most fundamental operations involve turning and with milling attachments you can also do milling operations.

I've never used combo machines although a lot of fine work has come from them. However, I have to think that any compromises made to accommodate both milling and turning would have to somehow reduce the effectiveness of either. There seems to be limited acceptance of the combo machines in the experienced machinist world, or at least that is my opinion.

As Bill states, bigger is better, and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with the imports, particularly if you buy from a reputable dealer. Evern Harbor Freight will let you return the lathe if it proves unsatisfactory. 

Chuck


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## RobWilson (Aug 21, 2009)

Hi Glenn,
PhiberOptix, has made a very nice job of building his Elmer's Tiny on a combo, they seem a very versatile machine ,if your short on space it may be the way to go.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5725.0 

Regards Rob


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 21, 2009)

Glen:

setting up a shop can seem overwhelming not knowing where to start. 
you have to decide your priorities like :
budget 
where are you setting up shop.
floor /bench / shop space available. 
what size projects do you want to build.
Is Made in USA important 

I tell folks get the biggest 
best equipment that you
can afford 
have room for 
can move safely.

Take a look at 

http://www.taigtools.com/

http://www.sherline.com/

in the import line 
the 7 x 10,12,14 lathes and x-2 sizes mill are popular starter hobby machines. 

if you have a bit more budget room and ability to move machines the 9 x 19 and 10 x 22 lathes are nice paired with an x-3 mill 

beyond that you are more or less in the full size pro machine category. 
Grizzly imports is currently offering free shipping on many machines look here

http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/freeshipping.aspx
The downside with combos is you have a bit of limitation to elbow room and you have to reconfigure the machine to switch from milling to turning. If you want to force yourself to getting used to and fast at setups get a combo machine and only use the 4 jaw chuck. but this could drive a newby crazy. 

Some folks start with small machines and buy bigger machines and sell the small ones. some stay small such as sherline /taig. some buy bigger machines and keep the little ones for small jobs and to have a second lathe mill. Some start with full sized machine but these are usually experienced folk with formal training. 
Do not forget to budget for tooling and accessories this can cost as much as the machine.
Only you can decide what is best for you. 
Tin


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## rake60 (Aug 22, 2009)

Personal opinion here Glenn.

A lathe is the most versatile tool in a machine shop.
It is said to be the only machine capable of reproducing it's self.

That statement will bring a brimstone attacks from at least a few members. 

If you had the time and patience to make multiple moves and hyper accurate
set ups for the milling processes a lathe really can be used to make all of the
parts necessary to build another lathe. 

If I had to cut my home hobby shop down to one machine it would be 
left with a lathe.

The multi-machines are OK.
I've operated several different makes and models.
I won't bad mouth them, but I can't give any one of them a positive 
review. They are just not rigid enough in any configuration to suit
my expectations.

Rick


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## NOI53Y (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies people. It's very much appreciated.

Looks like I have some thinking to do.

I'm not quite ready to make a purchase yet so I'll be looking around and trying to make up my mind.

As for what i want to build. Well firstly i'd love to build a Hit and Miss type of engine. Maybe a little steamer but eventually once my skills are honed enough (pardon the pun hahaha) i'd loved to build a multi-cylindered engine of some sort. Maybe an inline 4 but that idea is way way down the track ;D


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## NOI53Y (Aug 22, 2009)

I've just found Flame eaters and they look pretty interesting. I'll add one of those to the list too ;D


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 22, 2009)

glenn : It is impotant when selecting machine to know what scale you want to work 1n. not so much 3/4 " to the foot or 1/8 scale but do you want a little engine that you hold in your hand or an engine that weighs a hundred pounds and powers a stem launch you can take on a lake. 
I have seen just about any type of engine built on any size lathe and mill from sherline up . I have a friend that has a sherline he built a Mcabe runner in half size the print calls for. 
Tin


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## tmuir (Aug 22, 2009)

Get a lathe first but don't forget what ever you spend on the lathe you will probably spend close to that amount again on tooling for the lathe over the following year so factor that into your budget.


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## NOI53Y (Aug 22, 2009)

Tin the size i'm looking at is more the smaller size. Like you stated the "fit in you hand" scale is what I like and maybe a little larger. Say fit in 2 hands size ;D

Tmuir thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind.


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## shred (Aug 22, 2009)

Lathes are sized (in the US) by how large a diameter part they could make in theory (realistically you usually want to make parts in the bottom half-to-third of the size range, so plan for that)-- the usual home shop sizes (there are others, but not as popular currently) are:

Table/Benchtop-size <100 lb:
Sherline/Taig (don't know the size off the top of my head, but probably in the 4" range?)
6" - Atlas/Craftsman 6" 
7" - 7x import

Work Bench/Stand-size -- at this size, lathes start to come with their own stands and furniture 250-500+ lb.
9" - 9x import, South Bend 9
10" - 10x import, SB 10, Atlas 10

Stand-alone (pretty much all of these have stands or stand-alone) Most use 220v power. 1000 lb and up.
12" - 12x import, 10EE
14" and up

Think about the engines you'd like to make, in particular the flywheel size, add an " or 2 and see if that matches what you can afford the $ and space for.

Weight and length increases greatly with size. With some exceptions, price for used USA-made machines varies wildly, but around here averages pretty close to new imports; at least use that for planning purposes. Many people prefer the old USA machines, but they can be tricky to buy and inspect if you don't know what you're looking for. Ignore anybody that totally dismisses the China made machines as "crap". 

Pop on over to http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=460000 and there's one page with pretty much every import available on it. Some of those machines can be got cheaper elsewhere and in different colors.

Also if you are a complete newbie, the smaller machines tend to have better instructions available, especially online. Buy a 12" lathe and all you get is an oiling diagram; they assume you know the rest. 

A small machine is nice to learn on too-- parts are cheaper if you break something and they're less likely to cause fatalities or major injuries if you do mess up safety-wise.


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## Kermit (Aug 22, 2009)

Don't forget about

http://www.micromark.com/MICROLUX-7X14-MINI-LATHE,8176.html

And

http://www.micromark.com/MICROLUX-BENCHTOP-MINI-MILLING-MACHINE-ALL-INCH-MINI-MILL,8102.html


They are top of the line chinese import that have been upgraded to have very accurate inch measure lead screws and dial calibrations. All the others will have the standard metric equivalent scales which get more inaccurate with every turn of the handle. they don't give true inch readings even though the scales are all in inches on the dials. 

Very good choices if you go for the 7x12 version lathe. AND their on sale right now.

Kermit


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 22, 2009)

glen POI I started with a Grizzly 7 x10 lathe . a little bench band saw and a combo belt disk sander. I actualy started making pen pencil sets but bought a metal lathe knowing I wanted to do model engines at some poit. I then added a Micromart mill. a 9' South bend lathe and a 7" atlas Shaper. I also have a horizontal band saw that get occasional use mostly because it is in the garage. 
I still use the little lathe and the mill is my cnc project. 
Tin


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## vlmarshall (Aug 22, 2009)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> All the others will have the standard metric equivalent scales which get more inaccurate with every turn of the handle. they don't give true inch readings even though the scales are all in inches on the dials.



Really, are they all like that? Ugh.
Hey Zeep, see that? Maybe it's causing your measurement troubles.


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## Kermit (Aug 22, 2009)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Really, are they all like that? Ugh.



They claim dials are graduated in inches for accurate measurements, yet the travel of my lathe on both the little cross feed and the saddle are only in agreement with my DI for a very short distance. I would gladly take the metric graduated dials back for the lathe in that case, since then it would at least have a much better agreement with the graduations. One more reason to consider a DRO I suppose. Why didn't the government ever carry through with the change over to metric back in the seventies? Everybody to stoned back then to have any interest? ;D

*If I changed the lead screw on the lathe for a high quality imperial threaded one how much would that affect my ability to cut imperial threads with the gears that come with the chinese lathe?*

Kermit


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## chillybilly (Aug 22, 2009)

If your on a budget you can learn the basics by making a few tools yourself ,things like tap centres ,die holders etc (you can buy the taper bit to save you the trouble).

First year of my apprenticeship was spent making tools which you took out onto the shop floor when you reached your second year.
On returning to engineering a few years ago (as a hobby) i re-made many of the tools to brush up my skills and the way of thinking that engineering requires!!!!Also allowed me to find out what sort of tooling is required in the shed enviroment(now that i am paying for it !!)Not too much lost either than when you make mistakes !!(custom paperwights as i call em).
As too which machines ,i am a fan of old english !!Mill and lathe seperate Though weight and room are considerations .
And of course what you want to make ,believe me when you get into it you end up making stuff you would not have believed !!!
Welcome to the world of late nights and luke warm cups of tea ,coz you got into something :big:
What accomodation is gonna house your shop ???


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## PhiberOptix (Aug 22, 2009)

QUOTE
PhiberOptix, has made a very nice job of building his Elmer's Tiny on a combo, they seem a very versatile machine ,if your short on space it may be the way to go.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5725.0
END QUOTE

I have a clarke CLM500 as rob mentioned earlier, (Thank you Rob for your kind words) yes they are versatile and compact, however, if I could turn back time, I would have bought a Colchester Student Lathe, and a Benchtop CNC Mill, and/or eventually a Bridgeport Interact 1, Mine is a PITA constantly having to change from Milling to Turning mode then back again, very tedious, separate machines is the way for me, But, you know what space you have and what budget you have, mt tastes will no doubt be different to yours, What may be good for you is to go to a show/or a large broker where you can see and handle the machines, to see whats available and what takes your fancy

Good luck
Andy


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## NOI53Y (Aug 22, 2009)

Chillybilly my workshop is very small at the moment. It's a single garage but I am currently building a Hotrod (I hope I don't affend any restorers that may be on here :-[) and that takes up a lot of room. So currently i'm very limited for room but my wife and I plan on buying a bigger house in the next 12 months. My guidlines for that is "you can have whatever you like as long as it has at least a 3 car garage :big:

Ok so i'm leaning towards a lathe as a first purchase now. As i'm in Australia a lot of your great suggestions are unfortunately out because you just can't get them here but I have been looking around on the net and seen this. 

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L158

It seems fairly reasonable. Not to small not to big and the price seems ok(aussie dollars that is) so what do you think.

This would be my next choice if the budget can be stretched a bit further.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L1542

Let me know what you think.

Cheers,

Glenn.


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## Maryak (Aug 22, 2009)

Personal opinion,

I have a HAFCO and I have been very happy with it. Its an AL320G.

Having had a smaller Chinese lathe prior to this, my biggest complaint is the speed range. Mainly because IMHO the lowest speed, 100rpm, is too fast for many operations; my own at 60rpm is barely adequate.

From the 2 you have shown I would take the lower cost one and fit a variable speed motor to it.

Free advise and is sometimes worth exactly what you paid for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Best Regards
Bob


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## chillybilly (Aug 23, 2009)

:big: I tried the one with the 3 car garage ,til i saw the price LOL 

I too am in the single garage shared with my bikes ,and wheels and spares !!
Certainly cozy in there!!

Get yourself a little lathe ,see how you go on and what issues you meet ,when you get the new garage ,slip your new machines in the garage she will never know :big:
Best of both worlds then ....
If you do buy biggish later you wont have the hassle of moving them either then from one house to the next 
Like the sound of you Hot rod ,what is it ?
Nothing like a little machine on hand when you doin a build ,just for the little bushes spacers etc .


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## NOI53Y (Aug 24, 2009)

Chilly you may be on to something there :big:

Just for those that may be interested. Rather than start a thread on something completely off topic but here is my Hot rod. It is basically scratch built. I started with a chassis and cowl section and the rest will be hand built by me. Chassis is a 26ish Dodge and the cowl is 27 Willy's







I've made the doors and I am now skinning the whole lot at the moment. Well once it starts warming up anyway.

It will be a roadtser ute once it's finished.
















Still a heap of work to do.

Sorry for the off topic stuff ;D


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## tmuir (Aug 24, 2009)

Vernon  said:
			
		

> Really, are they all like that? Ugh.
> Hey Zeep, see that? Maybe it's causing your measurement troubles.



My lathe is mark with each graduation as 0.25mm or 1/1000 inch
They both can't be right. 
I've not bothered to work out which one is the correct value as I use them as only indications and my micrometer or vernier for exact measurements.


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## robbieknobbie (Aug 24, 2009)

I love my mill to little tiny pieces, but you can do an aweful lot with a lathe and a comparably sized drill press. The 'secondary' machines (drill press, sander etc) that you may already have can go a long way before you go and buy a mill.

One great person to chime in on this one would be Brian Rupnow (sp?). I believe I've seen him around here in the past. He's gone from complete newbie to having one of his small engines published in Home Shop Machininst in about two years. Whatever path he took would be a good one to follow.


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## vlmarshall (Aug 24, 2009)

NOI53Y  said:
			
		

> Just for those that may be interested. Rather than start a thread on something completely off topic but here is my Hot rod. It is basically scratch built. I started with a chassis and cowl section and the rest will be hand built by me. Chassis is a 26ish Dodge and the cowl is 27 Willy's.
> I've made the doors and I am now skinning the whole lot at the moment. Well once it starts warming up anyway.



Drool, drool... :bow:


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## chillybilly (Aug 24, 2009)

Big project !!Smashing !! 8) That a straight six in there ??


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## NOI53Y (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks Vernon.

Chilly, yeah it's a big project. Nothing like jumping in the deep end and having a go. Especially when I started with virtually nothing ;D

Oh yeah and that is a straight 6 in there. I'm not sure if you have heard of it but it is a Holden 6 202ci and a 3 speed auto behind it. Just something a little different to the usual V8 anyway.


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## chillybilly (Aug 25, 2009)

spent a lot of time in NZ in the past always fancied a ewt ,man the Ford holden rivalry was real fierce ,never really come across that before !!! :big:


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## ChooChooMike (Aug 25, 2009)

shred  said:
			
		

> Sherline/Taig (don't know the size off the top of my head, but probably in the 4" range?)



*Sherline*

http://www.sherline.com/lathes.htm

Swing over bed : *3.50*" (90 mm)

with available head/tailstock risers :

http://www.sherline.com/1290inst.htm



> 1-1/4" high riser block, an additional 2-1/2" is added to the diameter part that can be turned on the lathe. This means a part of up to *5-1/2" to 6"* can be turned over the bed.



*Taig *

http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html

Max. turning dia. *4.5* in. (extendable to *6.5* in.) 

web page also shows other specs.

With riser blocks :

http://www.taigtools.com/c1250.html



> The Riser Block Kit is used to raise the the headstock on the bed. The Block raises the spindle center one inch higher above the lathe bed, thereby allowing a *six inch* swing to be obtained. The Tool post is also raised one inch so that the toolbit remains on center with the spindle



HTH !

Mike


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