# Plunket Jr. Build



## swilliams (Sep 21, 2010)

This is my first attempt at an IC engine, very close to my first engine, although I'm not new to machining. The model is to Jerry Howell's design, and made from bar stock.

http://www.model-engine-plans.com/engineplans/combustion/plunket.htm?33,12

According to the plans the original engines were made about 100 years ago to power domestic machines such as washing and sewing machines. They weren't a very successful product and now are very rare and collectible.

Hopefully someone around here can point me in the right direction if and when I get over my head

Regards
Steve


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## swilliams (Sep 21, 2010)

I decided to start with the flywheel. The engine has the crank pin straight in the flywheel for the big end to connect to and some balance weights. So the flywheel has a couple of non round features requiring quite a bit of milling on the rotary table. 

I started with a bit of steel plate. First I milled a reference surface which will be used later







The plate was too big so I cut a smaller square out using a roughing endmill. I didn't have anything better to do it with and it worked ok






Apparently an endmill is pretty good at cutting paper!


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## swilliams (Sep 21, 2010)

I then started turning the flywheel. This photo was taken with the lathe running, the cut was not just rubbing like it looks. I was using a carbide tool with the slowest direct drive speed.






After the wheel looked something like this






I got ready to do the other side. I needed to take about an 1/8" off the back side, so I milled the corners off to avoid the massive interrupted cut on my little lathe






Then I stuck it on the face plate and made it the same as the other side.






From here it's mostly milling.


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## b.lindsey (Sep 21, 2010)

Looks like you are off to a good start Steve. That's gonna make a fine looking model judging by Jerry's pictures. 

Regards,
Bill


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## swilliams (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks Bill, still very early days, hopefully I can do it justice. 

My rotary table has a second Morse taper in it. I decided to make up an MT arbor to mount the flywheel on the rotary table.

I turned the arbor between centres using the topslide for the taper. I set the topslide by clocking up against a 2nd MT centre held between centres in the lathe.






The arbor has a thread in each end so I can first bolt it into the rotary table and then put a bolt in the other end to hold the flywheel onto the rotary table


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## swilliams (Sep 21, 2010)

I rounded the corners off an old 10mm endmill free hand on the grinder and used this to mill the flywheel.











I used the roughing endmill again to start trepanning the wheel out. I only went half way through as I wanted to preserve the reference surface. This was used to make the counter weights on both sides line up. 

The flywheel was then turned over and the other side done. The wheel was cut out and put back on the lathe for finishing off






That's it for now. Hopefully I can make some more progress before too long

Regards, Steve


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## cfellows (Sep 21, 2010)

Nice looking build, Steve. Looks like you're creating quite a pile of chips!

Chuck


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## swilliams (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks Chuck. You are right, I've sure made a big mess (of chips)

I guess I should do some cleaning up :-\


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## NickG (Sep 22, 2010)

Wow, bet that took a while to whittle away! Nice work :bow:
Nick


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## steamer (Sep 22, 2010)

Hi,

Well you haven't gotten to the point where you need a shovel yet ;D and I like seeing lathes with chips on then.

Looks great!

Dave


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## swilliams (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks Nick and Dave

Nick - yes it wasn't the speediest of operations. Trepanning with the endmill took a bit of time

Enough chips to require a shovel hey Dave? Perhaps I need a bigger lathe ;D


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## krv3000 (Sep 22, 2010)

HI and you is playing nice a grate billd  regards bob


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## swilliams (Sep 23, 2010)

Thanks Bob and Pat

Pat, I hadn't given cast iron much thought but it sounds like the way to go. I used that steel because I already had it. It was slow but not unbearably so.


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## swilliams (Sep 27, 2010)

I've been making a few tools I need for further progress. First a tailstock for my rotary table. The upright piece was made from what was left over in cutting the flywheel out






Second an adapter to put my lathe chucks onto the rotary table, here it is nearly finished






and finally a special cutter for the cylinder water jacket. This is made from an old piece of rusty silver steel (drill rod)


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## cfellows (Sep 27, 2010)

The plunket is an interesting engine. I will enjoy watching you build this. One question, how do you plan to cut the small valve gear in the crankshaft? Will it take a special cutter?

Chuck


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## swilliams (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks for the interest Chuck, it's appreciated. Have you built a Plunket or are you planning on building one one day?

I'm planning to make a cutter for the gear. I've all but finished a Eureka tool and this will be a good thing to test it out on. As you probably know the Eureka is a tool you put between centres to make a form relieved gear cutter. It works with ratchets and eccentrics such that one of the cutters teeth go by for every revolution of the lathe spindle. I am very curious about getting this device up and going. I bought some tool steel to make the cutters from. 

If all else fails I'll just buy some cutters. 0.8 module is close enough to the DP specified in the plans and I can get the two cutters for 30 bucks including postage from CTC tools, http://www.ctctools.biz

Cheers
Steve


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## cfellows (Sep 27, 2010)

I get a bug every now and then to build one, but haven't gotten real serious about it. I'm more interested in some of the techniques used on the engine. What's the diameter of the crank where the gear is cut? Also, how many teeth?

I've seen the Plunket running a number of model engine shows. It sure does run and sound nice.

By the way, I have seen the Eureka tool. Looks complicated...

Thx...
Chuck


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## swilliams (Sep 28, 2010)

The diameter is 1/2", 14 teeth and 32DP. The other gear it meshes with is 28 teeth 
0.8 module corresponds to 31.75 DP

There are also two very small gears for the water pump (gear type pump). 10 teeth only, I will probably increase the pressure angle for these beyond 20deg.

The Eureka wasn't so hard to build, but I haven't got it running yet so perhaps I should shut up on that score :-[

regards, Steve


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## swilliams (Oct 2, 2010)

I made a start on the cylinder housing. The cylinder is water cooled and consists of a brass housing with a cast iron linear. There is one port at the top of the cylinder that both the inlet and exhaust go through. This port goes through the water jacket and so some milling has to be done to accommodate this.

Started by boring the water jacket out, was a little worried about the drill jamming up but it turned out fine






then boring






So now I have a hole that is slightly less than the cylinder linear outside diameter.


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## swilliams (Oct 2, 2010)

Next to the milling machine to open up the water jacket. I drilled and tapped a hole in the back of the housing to mount it to the rotary table. Then I used the special cutter I made earlier.






which soon resulted in a sea of chips






So if you look at this next photo carefully you can see there is a small piece near the front that still has the smaller diameter of the cylinder linear. This will have a hole drilled through it from the side and also through the linear to create the port.


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## swilliams (Oct 2, 2010)

from here it's back to the lathe to bore out the rest of the water jacket towards the back. I made up a boring bar to do this. I milled and drilled the boring bar in the lathe. It's just one with some small round HSS going across it












so now the water jacket is bored out






There's alot more to be done on this part. Hopefully I don't stuff it up!!! Anyway thanks for tuning in, more to come ...


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## swilliams (Oct 4, 2010)

More work on the water jacket. 

Had to mill the form on the end that forms the mounting point. Here it is set up on my mill with my lathe chuck screwed onto the rotary table and the tailstock supporting the end






and after some time attacking it with a 5mm ball mill


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## swilliams (Oct 4, 2010)

So eventually






and then drilling some holes






then milling the flat for where the valve body will be silver soldered on






and drill some more holes, the one on the far left for the lubricator and the other is the water outlet


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## swilliams (Oct 4, 2010)

The part was then put back in the lathe. I turned up a plug so that I could use some tailstock support. In the brief instructions this step is done much earlier. 






So here's what it looks like on the inside, you can see the small hole at the back for the inlet and exhaust (don't forget there's a cast iron liner to go in yet)






and here's the cylinder water jacket as it stands






I made a minor stuff up on one of the chamfers, but in the end this has to be painted so I'll fix that up with plastibond. 

I need to silver solder some parts on to this soon. Anyone got any thoughts on what I can use for pickling? Preferably something I can easily get my hands on. Would vinegar work?


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## ozzie46 (Oct 4, 2010)

On the little bit of silver soldering I have done, vinegar has work well.
  I use white vinegar.


 Ron


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## swilliams (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks Ron, that sounds like the ticket


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## cfellows (Oct 4, 2010)

Nice job on the water jacket cylinder! Looks like it took a fair amount of time, based on the results.

Chuck


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## b.lindsey (Oct 4, 2010)

This is coming along very nicely Steve. There is a lot of work in that water jacket/cylinder housing and your pictures show it very well.

Bill


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## swilliams (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks for checking in Chuck and Bill, it's appreciated :bow:

Yes there's a fair amount of work and time in the water jacket/cylinder so far. I think this is the most demanding part of the build, but I'm not sure.


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## joe d (Oct 4, 2010)

Steve

That looks great. almost a shame to paint it!

Cheers, Joe


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## swilliams (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks for checking in and the kind words Joe, 

I think I'll feel better about painting it once I've silver soldered other stuff to it and thoroughly messed up the finish. 

Cheers
Steve


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## coopertje (Oct 7, 2010)

I truly enjoy watching your craftsmanship, you surely know how to use your tools! It all seems so easy on the pictures. I would grab my CNC machine for these kind of shapes...... :-[

I am sure this will become a very nice looking engine!

Regards Jeroen


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## swilliams (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen

Doing the shapes requires more patients than anything else. Maybe I'll get CNC at some stage in the future but that will probably be some time off.

Cheers
Steve


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## coopertje (Oct 9, 2010)

Hi Steve,

True, patience but also concentration. And there it goes wrong with me most of the times. It seems that I am not able to be focussed for hours and then I mess up. 

Patience is also required with CNC, its not a wonder machine. It is as good as the CNC code its get feeded and it takes time to fine tune a program. But the big advantage is that the machine does not loose concentration, once the program is ok it runs as long as you want! Especially for multiple cylinder engines, where you need to make many of the same parts its a perfect addition to the shop. I have in my planning (spread over many, many years) to build a straight 6, V6, V8, V10 and V12 engine. All together that takes for example 48 pistons, 84 valves etc. Then it really pays of to spend time in a good program.....

Good luck with your build, hope to see more progress soon!


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## swilliams (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen. Yes I agree, CNC needs the same planning as you do for manual. So do you also have a CNC lathe? Are you going to make your own designs for those engines or use existing designs? 


Anyway more progress on my engine. First some fittings to connect the water and the lubricator. I made the first one and promptly lost it upon parting off






So I jammed a bit of paper between the ways and as you can see, it worked perfectly






i.e. the part landed on the cross slide this time 

Here's a bit of a mock up of how it goes together with a couple of 1/16 NPT elbows


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## swilliams (Oct 10, 2010)

The next piece is the valve body, which is silver soldered onto the side of the cylinder.

I started with a boss that is silver soldered onto the side of the valve body. I set it up in the milling machine with an edge finder and then used my boring head to cut a radius into the end of it. This will match the radius of the valve body


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## swilliams (Oct 10, 2010)

Next is the valve body. I made this from a piece of 1.25" round. First I bored a hole through it and put a small counter bore at the end to accomodate an O ring






Then I made an arbor up






set it up on the rotary table and started milling


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## swilliams (Oct 10, 2010)

So then alot of milling to shape






Unfortunately some of my photos didn't come out very well of this, so a bit sparse here.

I then silver soldered everything together. Here it is immediately after completion of the soldering






and after pickling in vinegar


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## swilliams (Oct 11, 2010)

I made a start on the exhaust valve today. 

First I decided to straighten my lathe using Rollies Dads method with a piece of 1/2" silver steel. My lathe is sitting on cast iron legs and it's surprising how much it can twist under it's own weight. It was out about 4 thou in 16". Anyway it's much better now. 

I made the valve out of some mystery stainless that I got off ebay. The swarf came off terribly stringy but it didn't give any trouble with work hardening. So with light cuts I was eventually able to get the 1/8" stem nice and parallel. Here's a couple of pics. The second has a pencil to give an idea of size.


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## swilliams (Oct 16, 2010)

Next on my ever changing agenda is the cylinder liner. But first I needed to bore the cylinder housing out to it's final size. I had left this undersize so any distortion from the silver soldering could be removed


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## swilliams (Oct 16, 2010)

So next I made the liner. This needs a 1" hole bored in it that is 3.2" long. I started by putting some cast iron in the lathe and drilling it with a 7/8" drill. Note the use of the lathe carrier to eliminate the chance of the drill spinning in the Morse taper







Then I bored the liner out to about 50 thou undersize using a carriage stop to get the depth right











The outside diameter of the liner was made to about 2.5 thou bigger than the housing inside diameter.


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## swilliams (Oct 16, 2010)

I needed to put a 10mm by 1mm pitch thread in the other end of the liner for the spark plug. As I didn't have a tap this size and couldn't be bothered tracking one down I just screw cut the thread. I have a 44 tooth change gear and by putting this on the tumbler stud instead of the usual 20 tooth gear, then setting the gearbox to cut 56 tpi, my lathe was set to cut a pitch of 0.998mm which was more than good enough for this job.

The boring bar for the threading is just one I made from silver steel.


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## swilliams (Oct 16, 2010)

I then heated the housing up with a propane torch and put the liner in the housing












The inlet exhaust hole is not lined up perfectly between the housing and the liner but I think it's good enough. I'm reasonably happy with how it's turned out.


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## b.lindsey (Oct 16, 2010)

Steve, you have made a lot of progress since i last check in. The silver solder work looks great by the way.

Bill


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## NickG (Oct 16, 2010)

Beautiful fabrication work there. :bow:


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## ozzie46 (Oct 16, 2010)

Some really nice work here. That lathe dog trick for the drill bit is one I will stuff away for use later on. Thanks for the tip.

 Ron


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## cfellows (Oct 16, 2010)

Some very nice work there, Steve. Looks like you've done a lot of heavy lifting and it's turning out very nice. I'll be interested in seeing the process of making the engine base. That looks like another fabrication job.

Chuck


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## swilliams (Oct 17, 2010)

Bill, NickG, Ron and Chuck, thanks for checking in and for being interested.

Bill, I hope none of the silver solder leaks, I think it's ok (cross fingers)

Chuck, yes the base should be an interesting part of the project. It is held together with screws and then silver soldered. You have just reminded me that I need to order some taps for the small screws I bought for the job.

Cheers
Steve


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## swilliams (Oct 17, 2010)

I did some more work on the exhaust valve assembly today.

Here's a fuzzy pic of the main three parts. There is a steel housing that the valve seats against, the bronze valve guide which I made a press fit in the steel housing and the valve






There is an 1/8" hole through the valve guide which is not put in until it is in the housing.


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## swilliams (Oct 17, 2010)

Here's a pic of the guide assembled in the steel housing. You can see the hole in the side that the exhaust exits through.






The next step is to drill the hole through the guide. I drilled a 3mm hole which needs to be 1.5" long which is more than 12 times the drill diameter. I find when drilling very deep holes like this in the lathe that having the drill held dead true makes a big difference with respect to the hole being straight. For this reason I used an ER collet chuck. Next I put a 3.1mm drill and then reamed it 1/8". The hole was still running true when it came out the other side. I know if I used one of my drill chucks that wouldn't have been the case.


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## swilliams (Oct 17, 2010)

The valve seat was then turned in with a boring bar. This was done with the same chucking as used for drilling the valve guide.






Here's the whole thing put together. I lapped the valve seat a little with valve grinding paste






That's all for now 8)


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## swilliams (Oct 18, 2010)

The last significant job on the cylinder assembly was to bore out the cylinder to it's final size. I did this with a 5/8" boring bar with a HSS cutter in it. The finish came out good and the bore is parallel. I think I will be able to get away without lapping the cylinder bore.

You can see the exhaust valve guide assembly now installed in the cylinder assembly. I made it a light press fit in the housing.


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## swilliams (Oct 24, 2010)

Now that the cylinder assembly is largely finished next is the conrod. This is another job involving lots of milling.

This is how it started out, a piece of 1" diameter aluminum meets a 1" diameter endmill


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## swilliams (Oct 24, 2010)

So the round is converted into rectangle section with a couple of holes that will become the big and little end






My basic strategy for making this is to base everything around a pin which will locate the big end. Here's the pin in the embryonic conrod






and here it is bolted to the mill table






I've set the dials to zero with the spindle in line with the pin. The conrod has two angles. I'll pick these up by swiveling on the pin attached to the table and then make use of a smaller pin in the little end.


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## swilliams (Oct 24, 2010)

So now I start milling and can pick up the two angles by running an indicator across the pins






So the different pin diameters pick up the two angles by coming at either side with an indicator


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## swilliams (Oct 24, 2010)

Then after some time things start to look more like a conrod






from here I move to the rotary table






and eventually






Finally I made up some bronze bushes and put in a small slot and hole at the little end for the oil passage.






It took quite some time but it's done


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## NickG (Oct 25, 2010)

Lovely job on the conrod Steve, i've always been scared of doing complex shapes like that but you made that look easy. Sure it wasn't easy but will be a good method to follow.

Thanks for showing

Nick


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## swilliams (Oct 28, 2010)

Thanks for the nice comments and for checking in Nick, much appreciated.

I've been doing some work on making the piston, here's a couple of shots of it after doing the basic turning











The grooves were put in with a tool I ground from HSS and the smaller diameter at the end is just to hang onto it while machining. I'll cut it off when I've finished.


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## swilliams (Oct 28, 2010)

From here I stuck it on the rotary table and drilled and reamed the hole for the gudgeon pin. There is also a smaller hole for a little oil pipe to lubricate the little end.






I then set the rotary table up vertically and milled the clearance for the conrod as well as spotting a couple of holes for some grub screws which will secure the gudgeon pin.


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## swilliams (Oct 28, 2010)

Here's the inside of the piston






and here's the piston assembled with the conrod






Next job will be to have a go at making the rings. I'm hoping to have a go at that on the weekend


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## cfellows (Oct 28, 2010)

Nice work on the piston. What does that ER chuck attached to rotary table look like. Is it just a morse taper on the back end?

Chuck


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2010)

You are doing some very, very nice work there. There seem to be a number of us all building i.c. engines at the same time right now, and they are mostly all different. Great work!!!---Keep it up.----Brian


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## swilliams (Oct 28, 2010)

Thanks Chuck - Yes the ER chuck is a 2nd MT, I use a bolt and washer in the back as a draw bar. I also use it as a drill chuck in the lathe when I need to hold the drill particularly accurately. It's proved very useful and didn't cost very much, especially since I already had the collets for the mill. 

http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-53/ER25-MT2-COLLET-CHUCK/Detail


Brian - thanks for the nice comments and checking in. I think your work is very very nice too, I must check in on your thread. I will be following the finish of your build.


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## swilliams (Oct 30, 2010)

So I made the piston rings following Bill's description in his thread, 
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6014.235
which I found very useful

I made a bit of a false start as I proceeded to turn the OD and forgot to leave the extra on to be turned off later. I'm chalking that one down to too many after work drinks on Friday *beer* (my story and I'm sticking to it). Here's a shot of boring out the initial aborted attempt. BTW I think I've mastered using macro mode in my camera, amazing what you can find in the instructions! 







So I stuffed the OD of that up and had to start again :toilet:


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## swilliams (Oct 30, 2010)

I took Bill's advise and made enough for a few extra in case I break some. Good advise it turned out to be too, as I ended up needing to experiment and broke a few. Here's a pic of the initial turning, I just used ordinary grey cast iron






The final OD is 1". I made the initial OD 30 thou oversize and will slit them with a 1/16" slitting saw. In hindsight I should have made them 40 thou oversize. The initial ID is about 0.89" and the final was 0.92"

Here's a pic of parting off the rings using the same tool I ground up to groove the piston


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## swilliams (Oct 30, 2010)

Next I slit the rings






then made a simple fixture to clamp them in the lathe again and turned the OD with the rings closed up. I used a pair of multigrips to close the rings while tightening up the fixture. The ring is between the washer and the aluminum fixture held in the chuck. This is after its been turned to final size making it a little hard to identify.


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## swilliams (Oct 30, 2010)

Finally I bored the rings ID's out and did a little facing to bring them to correct width. To do this I bored a recess in the bit of cast iron I stuffed up earlier






I then held the rings in the recess with super glue. After boring I heated it up to break the super glue bond.

So here they are assembled on the piston


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## swilliams (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Pat. That should prove very handy in the future :bow:


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## coopertje (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Nice job on the piston and rings (and of course the other parts!). How did you get them on the piston without braking them? 

When I build my Lister engine I broke the rings in the first 7 attempts, every time just 0.1 second before it would click in its place....very frustrating! Then I made a trapezium support to stretch the rings just a little at a time and more important to keep them straight and non-twisted. With this support I was able to get them over the piston without braking.






Looking forward to read how you managed it, I feel there must be a better way then mine.....(made 10 rings, broke 7, used 2, 1 spare left!)

Have fun, Jeroen


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## swilliams (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi Jeroen

I like the device you made to do the job. I was able to open them with my fingers and get them over. I don't know why yours always broke when trying that method. Perhaps yours were tighter than mine. Next time I think I'll use a thicker slitting saw, say 3/32 or an 1/8 (3mm) thick for a 1" piston. Then they wouldn't need as much stretching to get over the piston and will be in line with Pat's table.

Cheers
Steve


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## swilliams (Nov 1, 2010)

So I was trying to do my tax return :redface2: but I had a little job to do to finish off the piston. No need to say the tax return has been put aside (again!!)

This is the little brass oil pipe to lubricate the conrod's little end. I did it on my 8mm lathe. Here's starting the 1.4mm hole through the middle. I put the drill way back inside the collet so that I could start the hole without a centre drill






Then drilled the hole out. This lathe is great for drilling small holes






and finished off the OD


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## swilliams (Nov 1, 2010)

Here's two views of it installed in the piston.


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## coopertje (Nov 1, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Maybe mine were too tight, or I had a different quality of casting Iron. Next time I will try to run an engine without rings, feel that a model engine does not need it to run ok. They normally run some hours in a lifetime.....at least with me they, when it runs the fun is over.....

I have looked at your oil pipe in the piston several times, but I really dont have a clue in what way the oil is supposed to reach the conrods little end..... Maybe I missed something here.....  ???

BR Jeroen


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## swilliams (Nov 2, 2010)

Hi Jeroen

Re. no rings. If it turns out no good you can always add them in later, so why not?

The oil pipe is very simple. The piston is orientated horizontally when the engine is finished. There is a drip oiler that feeds through a hole in the cylinder. This drips oil onto the piston, some of which ends up in that oil pipe which then drips onto the conrod, the slot and the hole in the conrod goes through to lubricate the gudgeon pin. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers
Steve


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## coopertje (Nov 2, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Correct, I prepared the groove in the piston so I just can add the ring if required later.

Thanks for the explenation, it makes a lot of sence. I did not realize the piston would be horizontal oh: 

Good luck with the machining, I will be waiting for your new posts to arrive!

Regards Jeroen


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## swilliams (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen

I've started making the base. This is a fairly involved fabrication job and although my enthusiasm for it was pretty flat when I started, over the last couple of days it's steadily picked up. I'm starting to view this as one of the more challenging and interesting parts of the build.

I've mainly been sawing and milling edges so far. Making the odd square from round






This part will be the spine, it was a bit on the large size for my vice, but with light cuts I got there






Here's the collection of bits I've cut up for the base so far. There's still a few very small parts I haven't started yet, the only major piece not there is the housing for the flywheel axle. With so many bits you get an idea of how the base is a little involved.


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## swilliams (Nov 4, 2010)

Here's how the side which holds the cylinder assembly is starting out






The pieces are first screwed and then silver soldered together. The square piece has a radius cut in the top which forms a cradle to hold the cylinder assembly. The piece on the left has a large radius cut in it to match the flywheel.

Here's a pic of cutting out the corner in the piece on the left






That's it for now.


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## coopertje (Nov 5, 2010)

Looks like an expensive pile of brass Steve! Looking forward to see it come together as another prove of your excellent machining skills   :bow:

Regards Jeroen


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## swilliams (Nov 15, 2010)

Jeroen, that brass wasn't too expensive as it was mostly just standard rectangular section. All the brass for this project wasn't cheap though, although I bought more than I needed. Thanks for your complements.

So I've done some more work on the base. First I screwed some of the bits together using 2.5mm screws


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## swilliams (Nov 15, 2010)

Then I sawed some bits off and attempted to silver soldered it together.






I used some new solder I bought off ebay and I later found out it didn't work properly ???

Anyway that's no biggy, I'll fix it up later.

So next I needed a fly cutter for cutting a radius to accommodate the flywheel. I made this from two bits of steel welded together. Here's a pick of turning the shank between centres so I can put it in an ER collet.


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## swilliams (Nov 15, 2010)

I made the cutter out of an old broken 1/4" endmill. Then put the radius in on the milling machine. The part is sitting on top of a couple of parallels.













Here's a pic showing how the flywheel sits against this part. At the end the screws will be covered with filler and paint.






That's it for now


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## coopertje (Nov 15, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Like your cutter! Simple but it does the job. Seems that you have quite a thin wall left on the leg after cutting the radius? Anyway looks good!

Regards Jeroen


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## swilliams (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen

I was thinking along these lines as I was cutting it, sure looked like it was going to end up awfully thin. But it didn't quite end up that way. The piece started out 12.7mm (1/2") thick and is now about 5mm in the thinest spot. So it's plenty thick enough as it doesn't have to do very much structurally. 

Steve


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## coopertje (Nov 16, 2010)

5mm for sure is enough, even if it would have a constructural function! 
You told about to use filler for the screws. Probably its my inadequate painting skills, but after some time I always start to see the screws (that I filled) trough the paint. It seems that the filler becomes thinner after a month or 3. When working with brass I try to use brass screws and instead of using filler I fill them with soft solder. After clean it up with a file, sandpaper and spraying you cannot see any mark of a hole, also not after some months. Maybe just an alternative for the filler.

Regards Jeroen


----------



## b.lindsey (Nov 16, 2010)

This is still coming along nicely Steve. The silver soldering looks good and that little radius flycutter did a great job too. Looking forward to more !!

Bill


----------



## swilliams (Nov 16, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen and Bill

Jeroen, the solder instead of filler sounds like good advice to me. I think I'll follow it.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## swilliams (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm currently struggling with keeping the description of this build coherent. I got some fire bricks to help silver solder the frame together a couple of weeks back, but stupidly left them at my parents house which is 8hrs drive away. :wall: :toilet: Anyway I need to head down that way next week on other business.

The next item is the spine for the frame. I'm making this from a piece of 3/16 thick rectangular section brass. 

I started with a 1" diameter hole that had to be bored in the top right hand corner. I started by drilling a half inch hole in the drilling machine. I'll give a little description of this in case anyone doesn't know about drilling holes in brass. This is the sort of opp where it's easy to make a stuff up and even suffer an injury. Hopefully the many people who already know this "inside out" will forgive me for boring them. The first thing one needs to know is that a key reason for an ordinary drill having a twist in it is to provide positive rake. This positive rake makes the drill tend to grab when drilling brass, copper etc. When drilling larger holes this becomes worse :fan:

The trick is to put zero rake on the lip of the drill using a stone. In this pic you can see that I have touched up the lips of the drill to have zero rake (see the shiny line at the cutting edge). Also shown is the stone I used to do this. Because the stoned surface is so small it is pretty easy to sharpen the zero rake off if need be.






Then I drilled the hole. Clamped for safety (drilling machines are potentially dangerous!!)






Next bored the hole to size in the mill


----------



## swilliams (Nov 26, 2010)

From here milling the outside to shape

















I'll try to post some more tomorrow or so

Cheers
Steve


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## coopertje (Nov 27, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Nice work on the brass and thanks for the tip of the rake angle! I indeed noticed that a standard drill can be very "bitty". Next time I will give it a try.

Curious about the end shape of the part you are making, I cannot visualize the end result yet. 

CU regards Jeroen


----------



## swilliams (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen

I'll post a mock up of how it goes together very soon. Hope you're enjoying your trip.

Steve


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## swilliams (Nov 27, 2010)

The next piece is the crankshaft housing. There is a pinion cut in the middle of the crankshaft and the housing has a slot to allow access.






I'm using ball races for the crank


----------



## swilliams (Nov 27, 2010)

So here are some mock ups of how it goes together
















That's not the real crankshaft in the last photo. There's actually a pulley that goes on the opposite end to the flywheel.


----------



## cfellows (Nov 29, 2010)

You're really doing a nice job, Jeroen. Gotta say, looking at all this brass kind has me breathing heavy...

Chuck


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## b.lindsey (Nov 29, 2010)

Its really coming together nicely Steve...and as Chuck said...that is some SERIOUS brass you have there!!

Bill


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## swilliams (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks Chuck and Bill

Yes lots of brass. I gave the poor fella at the metal supplies a hell of a job cutting it all up. But he's very helpful.

I bought some silver solder the other day. It's a product I don't know anything about, called silver solder but looks like soft solder. Does anyone know about this stuff? I'm thinking of soldering the crankshaft housing on with it. Is it stronger than plumbers solder?

Steve


----------



## swilliams (Dec 7, 2010)

Thanks Pat. Those M&Ms lasted about 2 seconds after I opened them. Been a bit tied up with work lately, but things are looking good to get some more done this weekend

Cheers
Steve


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## swilliams (Dec 12, 2010)

I found out on the Internet somewhere that silver in soft solder improves strength. I finally managed to solder the base together using the soft silver solder.






Then I milled the bottom roughly flat, clamped onto an angle plate and using a 3/8th endmill with light cuts






Note the bolt used as a spacer, I face the top of the bolt flat in the lathe.


----------



## swilliams (Dec 12, 2010)

Then I cleaned the back of the assembly up











Next is to cut out the piece where the cylinder assembly attaches. Anyway, glad that parts over th_wav. I was finding it a little taxing. 

Regards Steve


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## swilliams (Dec 13, 2010)

I made a little more progress this evening. I set the base up on the angle plate to cut out the radius where the cylinder assembly fits onto the base. Here's the angle plate held in the bench vice to set up the job. I used a square to line it up






Then in the milling machine, using the boring head as a fly cutter






and finally, here's a mock up of how things go together






Steve


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## b.lindsey (Dec 13, 2010)

Making great progress Steve, In that last pic ist beginning to look like a real engine!! Nice job on that flywheel too if I hadn't said that earlier in the thread. Will you leave the various metals natural or are you planning to paint it?

Regards,
Bill


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## joe d (Dec 13, 2010)

Really starting to look like an engine now, Steve.
All that brass makes my heart go pitter-pat. There is 
absolutely nothing in the world that can't be improved by the addition
of some brass Thm:

Cheers, Joe


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## NickG (Dec 13, 2010)

Yep, well done Steve, great work. I've always liked the look of plunket but had no idea how complex it was! No wonder it says not for beginners on the website.

Nick


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## swilliams (Dec 14, 2010)

Bill, Joe and Nick, thanks for checking in and the nice words :bow: :bow: :bow:

Bill, I'm planning on painting it, I've gotta cover up those ugly screws holding the base together 

Joe, I'm liking brass more and more as this build progresses. The way cheap crappy endmills keep on keeping on is a real plus.

Nick, Yes it's more complex than I expected to. However from where I sit now (reckoning I've got the hardest work behind me) that makes things more interesting. Famous last words


----------



## Maryak (Dec 14, 2010)

Steve,

Great work :bow: :bow: I really like the way you have fabricated complex shapes and blended them together.

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## swilliams (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks Bob :bow::bow: It was a little bit of a struggle, glad that parts finished


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## coopertje (Dec 14, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Pass by to put here my compliments on your build, really well done and very educational to make complex shapes build up out of standard material  :bow: :bow:

Best regards Jeroen


----------



## swilliams (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen. Still lots more to go

Next is the power take off pulley

Here's the bit of steel I made it from, this used to be 50mm ground bar about 25 years ago. Now it's got a more natural finish







I ground up a form tool for the job out of HSS






and made a start on the lathe


----------



## swilliams (Dec 16, 2010)

Next was cutting the keyway. Last time I tried this I was unhappy about the way it punished my puny lathe. This caused me to build a slotting attachment that I finally finished off for this job and put into service











Then I finished the outside, by mounting it on what will be the crankshaft and driven by the key. The crankshaft is made from 1/2" silver steel. I decided to go all old school and put it between centres






I put the crown on with the topslide and file.

Here's the finished product. All that's left is to put a hole in for the grub screw which locks it on.






I could do a bit more work on the polish, but I'm not a big fan of polishing.


----------



## peatoluser (Dec 16, 2010)

Wish my soldering was up to your standard steve :bow: did you free hand grind the form tool ? looks like you got a smooth radius.
yours
peter


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## swilliams (Dec 16, 2010)

I think your fabrication job is really great Peter, I'm very impressed :bow:

Yep, ground the tool freehand. It wasn't perfect but turned out near enough


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## NickG (Dec 17, 2010)

Steve,

brilliant work.

Like the slotting attachment. It is a classier way to attach wheels to a shaft with a key way, looks far superier to any other method in my opinion!

Nick


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## swilliams (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks Nick

I got enthused and built that attachment shortly after upgrading my milling machine about a year ago. Before that I had an old piece of junk horizontal without a vertical head. I was enthused about cutting some dovetails at the time. Of course there's easier ways to go about it. I've seen some nice pictures from members here who put a lever attachment onto the back of the topside. 

If you have a big strong lathe, just winding the carriage back and forth works great.


----------



## NickG (Dec 17, 2010)

I've got a harrison L5 and to fit the new motor I had to put a key way into it so I did that by winding the carriage back and forth, it worked really well but was only an aluminuum pulley. Even then it felt like I was punishing the lathe a bit though!

I always fancy cutting dovetails too! I've got a cutter that was given to me but never tried it, one day I will make a Quick change Tool Post, one day!

I know what you mean about the horizontal, I had a lovely centec 2a until a few months ago, I'd used it about 2 or 3 times then bought a larger vertical so it was never going to get used again. It was a good quality machine though, someone got a bargain.

Nick


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## swilliams (Dec 17, 2010)

Building a quick change toolpost is the way to go Nick. Once you do it you'll be kicking yourself for not building one years ago. Make a dozen or more holders, takes all the tedium out of turning.

Steve


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## NickG (Dec 17, 2010)

I do find it really tedious changing tools, finding tools, setting centre height etc. especially as my tool post only accommodates 1 tool at a time! I have planned to make the tool post and holders for a while, but then I think, I could be spending that time making engines. But I guess it could be rewarding too, because then I'll be using it all of the time.

I'm too tight / can never afford to buy one!

Thanks,

Nick


----------



## coopertje (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Nice work on the tool indeed, whenever I try this I end up with a radius of 0.1mm. I do not know when to stop and probably I do not have the skills for free hand radius shaping 

Nick, there is no greater joy then to use your home made tools. It's not just a matter of money, but I appreciate a lot more my own made tools then the ones I bought.

Keep the pics coming, regards Jeroen


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## swilliams (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks Jereon. Yes I agree about enjoying building tools that you use. So Nick have we badgered you into building that QCTP yet, or do we have to get more sanctimonious? :big:

Anyway back to business

I made the cam






Also I got some gear cutters from CTC tools. They are 0.8 module which works out at 31.75 DP instead of the specified 32 DP. I decided the prices were such that I couldn't justify messing about to make my own, 

http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-Cutting-Tools-cln-HSS-Involute-Gear-Cutters-cln-Individual-Gear-Cutters/Categories

I'll still have to make my own cutter for the gears in the water pump later


----------



## swilliams (Dec 18, 2010)

So then I cut the timing pinion in the crankshaft






and made up the timing gear (more super glue for holding in the lathe)






So here's how this bit goes together, the timing gear goes over the cam and is attached with loctite. 






The cam and the pin it rotates on are made of silver steel. I'm planning to harden and temper them later. I also need to attach the little magnet to the brass gear for the Hall effect ignition.

The main thing I learned from this part of the build is that I need to buy some dividing plates for my rotary table ASAP 

Regards
Steve


----------



## coopertje (Dec 18, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Nice job on the gears! I find gear cutting one of the most satisfying jobs to do, it has something magical to me. If I may give you an advice, truly concider to mount a stepper motor on your rotary table instead of working with plates. You can control it with Mach3 or a dedicated angle control unit. I found that working with plates and the shear lead to mistakes. What goes wrong with me is that when rotating to the next position you need to pull the handle to unlock the table. Many times I hit the shear when rotating and then your reference is gone! The worst thing is that you only know if you repositioned correctly when you cut the last tooth   Sine I made my rotary table stepper controlled I had no positioning problems anymore. If you want I can post some pics of what I made.

Another thing. For my Stanley steamer I need to cut 2 gears in a 60 degree angle. I would like to use the standard gear cutting disks like you used. I cannot figure out how to do it, because the blanks are conical so it's hard to determine the blank diameter that I should use for calculations. Also I cannot find any article or info about cutting gears on a angle. Do you have any experience with this?

Regards Jeroen


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## b.lindsey (Dec 18, 2010)

It just keeps getting better Steve. Nice job on the pinion and gear and great pictures as always.

Bill


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## swilliams (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks Jeroen and Bill  :bow: :bow:

Jeoen, regarding the stepper motor. That sounds pretty good, but I'm not ready to go in that direction at the moment. There is a reasonable chance I will be moving in the next year or so. Once I settle somewhere I think I might go the whole hog with a CNC mill and rotary table etc. I also know someone here who has vast experience with Mach3 and CNC conversions. Thanks for the offer. When I finally get round to going CNC I will be sure to be in touch with you.

Regarding the bevel gears. I have never done it. However I have some excellent literature on the subject in the form of an ancient book by Brown and Sharp. If you want I can scan the relevant section and send it to you. I think the copyright has expired on the book. 

Cheers
Steve


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## coopertje (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the offer, I would like to receive some detailed material on bevel gears! I have send you an personal mail with my mail address.
Thanks in advance for the taking the effort to scan and send me the material, it appreciated.

Best regards Jeroen


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## NickG (Dec 20, 2010)

Steve,

great work on the gears, gears always impress me but those have turned out spot on. I don't think I'll ever be able to make them!

With regards to the QCTP - it might get on my project list :big: but I have 3 projects to finish first, 2 off poppin flame lickers, electric loco and tiny stirling - all at various stages of unfinishedness!!!

Nick


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## compspecial (Dec 20, 2010)

I really admire your courage Steve, machining the timing gear directly onto the crankshaft! no room for error there..great work!


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## swilliams (Dec 20, 2010)

Thanks Nick and Compspecial

Nick - of course you can make gears. Just get your hands on some cutters and go for it 
By the way I like the project list, could be a little larger though 

I did some snooping around on the net and found some stuff about the original Plunket Jr. First a flyer for a brand engineered version. Interestingly it says that it was also available as a casting kit







and some pics of originals, which have been posted up somewhere by their owners. Apparently it was sold in various configurations, some with throttle control, some with governors, and some with water hoppers
















Cheers
Steve


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## swilliams (Dec 23, 2010)

So I went a bit nutty and made a miniature cricket bat out of stainless steel






Only joking, it's going to be a sort of push-rod for the exhaust valve.

I made a wheel to go in the end out of a bit of 1/2" silver steel. It has a 1/16th hole through the middle. I'll harden it later






and then did various more milling operations on the cricket bat. You can see how the roller fits in the end here


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## swilliams (Dec 23, 2010)

I didn't photograph this bit, but the cricket bat now has a slot in the middle to slide back and forth along. Next I needed a bronze guide which goes inside this slot. The bit was really small and difficult to hold, so I soldered it onto a bit of brass






and then milled it to fit in the slot in the cricket bat






Here's a couple of pics of a mockup of how the whole thing goes together. I'm using a 1/16 drill to hold the wheel as I haven't made the proper axle yet.











You can see how the wheel runs on the cam, and how the other end pushes the back of the exhaust valve. In the middle you can see the top of the bronze guide. This will have a screw holding it onto the little shelf that the cricket bat is sitting on.

Steve


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## swilliams (Dec 26, 2010)

I made the grease cup to go on the crank pin. I purchased a fine straight knurling wheel for the job






and then did some painting and assembling











The green is a fair bit darker than it appears to be in the picture on my computer. I'm not planning to do anymore until the new year

Cheers
Steve


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## NickG (Dec 29, 2010)

I haven't had a chance to catch up on the forum for a while but that is looking great Steve. Best colours for an engine in my opinion - all my flywheels are red, although somebody did do one with a cream flywheel recently which also looked really good!

Nick


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## swilliams (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks Nick, 

I also like red for flywheels. I haven't seen a cream one yet, I'll have to keep my eyes open.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to do some more on this in a few days. The main things I have still to do is, get the valves and associated parts finished and working, make the carby, make a water pump and make the radiator. Then hopefully get it to run.

Cheers
Steve


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## NickG (Dec 31, 2010)

Here it is! http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3633.120

Can't wait to see and hear yours run!

Nick


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## swilliams (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks Nick, the cream flywheel does look good

I've got some more work done on my engine. First the paint didn't work out any good, as the primer I used was wrong. I've got some etch primer now, seems to have worked good.

I've been experimenting and made the valve springs. Here's a pic of the spring on the exhaust valve assembly, some of the earlier attempts I wasn't happy with, the inlet valve spring which is the small tapered one, and the mandrels I made to wind the springs on






The flats on the mandrels have the spring wire pinched between them and one of the jaws of the self centering chuck. Also shown is the guide for the spring wire that is used to wind the spring, in the lathe using the screw cutting mechanism. The tapered spring will fit over the tapered end of the valve guide for the inlet valve.

Steve


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## b.lindsey (Jan 4, 2011)

It's always nice to see your progress Steve! The springs look great as does the engine.

Bill


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## swilliams (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks Bill, nice of you to say that

I did some more work on the inlet valve assembly. Here's the valve stem just before being parted off. It's some sort of stainless, parts off ok with good cutting oil, hopeless without it. The stem came out nice and parallel with tailstock support.






Here's the finished inlet assembly on the left and exhaust on the right. The inlet is opened by vacuum, hence the weaker spring






Steve


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## b.lindsey (Jan 5, 2011)

Steve, those turned out very very nice!!!!! Great pictures too as always.

Bill


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## NickG (Jan 5, 2011)

Springs did turn out great Steve, out of interest did you temper them?

How strong is the inlet spring? In the pic it still looks quite springy but it is a bigish engine and difficult to get an idea of size.

Nick


----------



## arnoldb (Jan 5, 2011)

Steve, I've been quietly lurking along...
You're doing a great job on your build :bow: :bow:

Silly question - the tapered spring looks great, but won't it want to start to catch on the taper of the valve guide in operation, as it looks to be a fairly close fit to the "cone" ? 

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## coopertje (Jan 5, 2011)

Steve, its looking great! It will be such a beauty when finished. 
Did you polish the valve stems or did they came out of the lathe that smooth. I can hardly see some machining traces....

Regards Jeroen


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## swilliams (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks Bill, Nick, Arnold and Jeroen 

Nick, I just made the big spring out of piano wire that I bought at the local hobby shop (RC planes etc.) and the smaller one out of stainless spring wire. I was going to make them both from stainless but I didn't buy as much as I should of. No tempering, just wound them and be dammed  In my limited experience that works good. The exhaust spring is pretty strong (39 thou piano wire) but I can still move the valve between thumb and finger with just a little effort. The inlet spring is considerably weaker (16 thou) and very easy to squash between fingers. 

Arnold, sounds like a good question to me  The tapered spring fits tight on the cone. Only the part in front of the cone moves when the valve is compressed. The original Plunket seems to of had this type of arrangement.

Jeroen, I didn't polish the valve stems. The stainless I used is not free cutting but still machines good for stainless, hasn't given me any trouble with work hardening. It gets a nice smooth finish with an ordinary off hand ground hss tool very easily. Relative to mild steel the harder steels are often easy to get a smooth finish on with hss. I'll do a little lapping for the seat, I made the taper face about half a degree miss match so it contacts on the large end of the seat.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## NickG (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks Steve, sounds good to me. Is there any way you can test those valves for leaks as is or will you just wait until they are assembled into the head and with the rest of the engine? 

I got some carbide tipped tools last christmas but couldn't get anywhere near the same finishes I can with a hand ground HSS bit so I was quickly back to those. Probably something I'm doing wrong with regards to cutting speeds or something but I just do what I know works now. My lathe only has a max speed of 720rpm but I have hardly ever needed to use it with the HSS tools.

Nick


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## swilliams (Jan 6, 2011)

Nick, I'm planning on just seeing if I can get the engine to run. Being new to this IC business, if it runs I'll be very happy.

My lathe is also limited to about 700rpm, which I use alot for small stuff, brass and drilling small holes. I mostly use cobalt hss for turning, it's easier to sharpen than carbide  Many indexable carbide tips won't get a good finish with light cuts, so it might not just be the speed. 

Steve


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## swilliams (Jan 7, 2011)

So over the last day or so I solved one of the problems I've been struggling with. In the plans the inlet valve assembly is housed in a part made from a bronze elbow. I was having trouble finding an elbow I was happy with. Anyway I got over the problem with some machining and a whole lot of filing.

Being well and truly over chasing up stuff I started with a bit of brass cut off from some 1.5" stock I already had. The diameter I started with was way too big but I was making this plan up as I went.







Then I did some rough milling and some turning to get a starting point before busting out the files


----------



## swilliams (Jan 7, 2011)

So here's how it's shaping up. The plate will be used to bolt this assembly onto the back of the cylinder assembly. I still need to cut out its outside profile with a piercing saw. 






So after some filing






and the final product






Steve


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## Maryak (Jan 7, 2011)

Steve,

Been lurking - great work. :bow: Like Arnold I wondered about the valve springs. As you say only the free end compresses. Wonder what that does to the spring characteristics. Someone with better math skills than me may offer an explanation, (that's about 50% of the world population).

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## swilliams (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks Bob

Presumably you had some decent mathematical skills when you worked out that 50% of the population stuff  (joke)

The part of the spring that is jammed up on the taper does nothing so it's as if it's been cut off, making the spring in effect about half as long as it appears. If you halve the length of a spring then the coils have to move twice as far when the valve moves the same distance. So assuming the spring is linear (which it will very close to) the spring will be twice as stiff.

Steve


----------



## Maryak (Jan 8, 2011)

swilliams  said:
			
		

> The part of the spring that is jammed up on the taper does nothing so it's as if it's been cut off, making the spring in effect about half as long as it appears. If you halve the length of a spring then the coils have to move twice as far when the valve moves the same distance. So assuming the spring is linear (which it will very close to) the spring will be twice as stiff.
> 
> Steve



Aha 

Thanks

Best Regards
Bob


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## NickG (Jan 8, 2011)

Very professional looking Steve,

One day I hope I can turn out this sort of work.

Nick


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## swilliams (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks Nick, you are also doing some very nice work. Anyway I think we're both having fun building stuff which is the main thing.

I've been building the oiler. Started with an insect repellent cap to make the transparent tube






acrylic tube would have probably been better but I couldn't be bothered chasing it up. Anyway I cut the ends off by jamming it on a bit of steel that had a matching taper turned on it






Here's a shot of drilling a hole through the top cap for filling. I screwed the cap onto a bit of wood and my pinkies remained unscathed






Next, putting the knurl on the flow adjustment knob






Here's how it looks on the engine, still a couple of little bits to go on the oiler but it's nearly there. You can also see that I 've got the exhaust valve mechanism sorted out






Next major part to build is the carburetor. Waiting on some reamers for that one, if they don't arrive I'll make the radiator first.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## NickG (Jan 17, 2011)

These sprays are good for model engineering material! Our sun cream no longer has the plastic cap, that was used as the displacer cylinder on my tiny stirling engine!

Lubricator looks great on the engine. ;D


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## swilliams (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks Nick

Indeed the spray caps can help you out of a pickle ;D


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## swilliams (Mar 7, 2011)

I apologise for not posting on this for some time. One way or another I've been very busy with work and stuff.

At any rate I manged to make the carby and the ignition. For the ignition system I used the hall effect system with coil from J. Howell's site. The coil is the one on the top of this page, http://www.model-engine-plans.com/partskits/ignitionsystems/coil.htm
The spark plug is just a little Honda one with a 10mm thread.

The good news is I managed to get the engine to run for a sustained period. Eventually I switched it off because it was getting hot and I don't have the water cooling system made yet.

The bad news is it is still very difficult to get to run and when it was running it ran super rough.

I have two thoughts about what to try next to improve how well it runs

1) I used 4 AA batteries to power the ignition at 6V. The spark was a decent blue colour but it seems rather small. I'm thinking I might get a stronger spark with a larger battery. I have very little experience at this, so the question. Should it run properly with 4 x AA batteries or are they too small?

2) The second thought is I could probably improve the lapping of the inlet valve. The engine seems to kick back like a mule when I try to start it though. Seems to have good compression.

Anyway I'm keen to hear some suggestions. I'll try and get some pictures soon :-[

Thanks in advance 
Steve


----------



## steamer (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi Steve,

Congrats on getting her running!....My first impression of the issues is it's not the valve...kicking like a mule tells me the valve is tight unless it is also backfiring?.  It might be it's timed too early?  Additionally, I would suggest a hotter battery set up with more current available. Like a great big 6V lantern battery....JMHO

 th_wwp th_wwp th_wwp th_wwp ;D


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## swilliams (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks Dave

"Like a great big 6V lantern battery" Now that's what I wanted to hear. I just need to get down to the shop and buy one. I'll attempt to do that at lunch tomorrow. Promise some pics next time I make it to the shop. Hopefully tomorrow evening.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## NickG (Mar 7, 2011)

Excellent new Steve, can't wait to see it. 4 x C or D batteries would probably do the trick? if you find it hard getting the lamp battery.

Nick


----------



## swilliams (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi Nick

I managed to get a lantern battery at lunch. Could only get it with a torch (flash light) which I immediately tossed in the bin. 

Anyway I'm planning some more experiments tonight. Stay tuned

Steve


----------



## swilliams (Mar 8, 2011)

Well I got it going with the lantern battery. Here's the video (hope it works)

http://rsc.anu.edu.au/~swilliams/movies/MVI_0848.AVI

Anyway some observations.

1) The coil and ignition kit from the J. Howell site have performed very well so far.
2) The engine seems surprisingly powerful. It gets up to an alarming speed when the throttle is opened up. The video doesn't do justice to the amount of noise and the speed it runs at when you see it in the flesh. 
3) I'm having trouble with the engine running too rich. I think I need to make the taper on the carby needles finer. Other than this, things seem really good

Finally some questions for those who know more about such things than me (wouldn't take much ). So far I've just rigged up a makeshift system for the fuel delivery. Seems to me the height of the fuel in the fuel tank must be below the spray bar in the carby; is this correct??? I'm planning on making the fuel tank out of some 1.5" diameter brass tube which I will position horizontally. That means the height of the fuel will change by 1.5" when going from full to empty. Will this have much of an effect on the fuel mixture. i.e. will it lean out when the tank gets towards empty?? 

Thanks in advance for any replies to my questions.

Steve


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## cfellows (Mar 8, 2011)

Sounds and runs good. Nice job!  :bow:

Chuck


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## NickG (Mar 8, 2011)

Brilliant stuff Steve, looks and sounds really powerful. A rare beast you've made there.

Nick


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## joe d (Mar 8, 2011)

Steve

That's just excellent! Sounds great, and looks really good.
Glad to have been following along. Sorry I can't help much
with the questions..... 

Cheers, Joe


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## coopertje (Mar 8, 2011)

Congratulations Steve, very well done and runs very well.  :bow: its a beauty!

Already plans for a new project?

Regards Jeroen


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## Maryak (Mar 8, 2011)

Very Nice Steve :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## swilliams (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks fellas

Jeroen, still got a bit to do on this. I need to make a water pump, radiator, fuel tank and of course a stand.

After that I'll endeavor to get stuck in to the skeleton clock I've been building. The next major engine project I want to tackle is a Duclous topsy turvy engine. The topsy turvy engine seems so interesting it's gonna be hard to put it off and work on my clock.

Cheers
Steve


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## steamer (Mar 10, 2011)

Glad it worked out for you! 

From what I have heard, the fuel level needs to be JUST below the fuel bar, and not by much.

Others may have a different opinion.

Glad your working on a clock! I am getting tooled up to do the same! ;D

Dave


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm not sure about the carb you are running, but if it doesn't have a float and shut off needle, the top of the tank when full should be about 1/8" to 1/4" below the fuel outlet in the carburetor, otherwise it will flood itself as it runs and run rough. There is enough venturi effect in these small carburetors to lift the gasoline from the tank up to the carb, as long as it doesn't have to lift it too far.---Brian


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## b.lindsey (Mar 10, 2011)

Looks to be a great runner Steve, thanks for posting the video.

Regards,
Bill


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## jonesie (Mar 10, 2011)

hi steve , nice runner. i also used the jerry howell ignition on my powerhouse, and i ending up getting a small 6vt wet cell battery that is used in a small 4 wheeler, and now i can charge it. that ignition calls for at least 4amps to get a good spark. runs good now. i also build my fuel tank from copper tubing and mounted it horz. under the carb, and it draws fuel up just fine. good luck jonesie


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## swilliams (Mar 11, 2011)

Dave, thanks for the info about the fuel level and I look forward to hearing more about your clock. Hope it goes well!

Brian, Yes the carby is as you suppose. Based on what you and Dave say I'm going to try and make the fuel level about 1/4 inch below the spray bar.

Bill, thanks again for all your input

Jonesie, the ignition is working much better with the bigger battery. I'm using the newer coil from the Howell site, I imagine you are using the older and bigger exciter coil? Anyway things seem good now.

Thanks all for your input. One way or another it helps alot and I feel I now know how to move forward. For me, feeling confident that one is moving in the right direction is the main thing 

Cheers
Steve


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