# Does anyone sell kits



## fatvod (Apr 19, 2015)

Hey guys! I just found this forum and im enthralled with the idea of a tiny desktop engine.

I was curious, does anyone sell full kits? I unfortunately dont have access to any metalworking machines or the skillset to machine anything.

Im going to guess no because of the time and effort it takes to create these small components, and any that are sold would be prohibitively expensive. (over 1k)

I am interested in gasoline engines, or steam engines/boilers. I just want to put them together myself, sounds like a lot of fun.

Thanks!


----------



## Swifty (Apr 19, 2015)

There are pre machined kits available, a Google search should show suppliers.

Edit. Just did a quick search, try some of these sites listed here. http://www.cedesign.net/steam/steam-links.htm

Paul.


----------



## fatvod (Apr 19, 2015)

This is excellent thank you!

To run a steam engine, I require a boiler aswell right?


----------



## Cogsy (Apr 19, 2015)

Here's one fully machined kit for a reasonable price. Still need a boiler though.

http://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-engine-8/


----------



## Swifty (Apr 19, 2015)

fatvod said:


> This is excellent thank you!
> 
> To run a steam engine, I require a boiler as well right?



You will need a boiler if you want to run on steam, but a far cleaner method is to run them on air. I have seen mentioned that someone was intending to run one on a small fish tank air supply, I have grave doubts if it would be strong enough, but it may run a small wobbler style engine. To have a model running on a desk as you work would be great, but a larger air supply would be needed.

Paul.


----------



## fatvod (Apr 19, 2015)

The idea of running it on steam, watching it puff, and drip out is a lot more fun to me. I used to have a wilesco kit as a kid, and it was fun but all it did was sit and spin. I would love to get a kit that actually drives something.

There is a mamod steam roadster that is catching my eye. 

Some nice sterling engines too.

Ive found a large selection of stuff on ministeam.com


----------



## Swifty (Apr 19, 2015)

fatvod, here's a Mamod Roadster that I have.





Paul.


----------



## gus (Apr 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> fatvod, here's a Mamod Roadster that I have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Paul,

Where and when did you get hold of this treasure??? Gus dying to own one.
Good chance of dropping by Glenhuntly in November. Purpose to see my grandchildren------Ari and Tash and visit my good friend Paul to talk shop and see his machineshop and showpieces. No Worry. Will take the train to Dandenong and find way to your house.


----------



## Swifty (Apr 20, 2015)

Hi Gus, my sons father in law gave it to me, I admired it at his house one day and he gave it to me. He purchased it for $10 from a charity shop, neither the shop nor knew what a great find it was. The only condition was that if I no longer wanted it, I was to pass it onto my son.

It would be great to see you if you come over later this year. If you get a train to Dandenong, your going in the wrong direction. Don't worry, you need to catch the train to Frankston, on the same line as Glenhuntly, I can then pick you up from the station.

Paul.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 20, 2015)

There are  in fact a large variety of "Desktop" engines available for purchase. 
By full kit i assume you mean all parts machines ready to assemble. 

The rolls Royce of model engines is the Stuart Turner Models. 
they are nice but a bit pricey and they are in the UK so the shipping adds to the cost. 

http://www.stuartmodels.com/products/machined-kits
384 pounds sterling to over a thousand. 

a Plus one on the PM research kits good bang for the buck. 


And last but certainly not least lets not forget the Graham Industries offerings. 

http://grahamind.com/store/page1.html

I would not hesitate to trust the quality and customer service of any of these companies.  
I have purchased from PM research and Graham industries was founded by one of our admins, his son now runs the business. 
So lots of choices for under $ 200 and a decent number for around $100 or less. 
And if you want a full steam outfit Look at the Jensen engines they are still made in the usa. 
Tin


----------



## fatvod (Apr 20, 2015)

Hoooo baby those stuart models look awesome. A little pricy for a beginner though.

Both PMR and Graham look like they have some fantastic stuff. I will probably pick up one of those. Any suggestions to make or buy a cheap boiler? Can I rip the one off my wilesco kit?


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 20, 2015)

http://www.jensensteamengines.com/parts-list/parts-list.htmJensen sells boilers only on there parts page  but it may be cheaper to just find somthing used on e bay and you should be able to run a small engine of the wilesco boiler. some guys use the California brand compressor from home depot they are quite quiet. keep in mind if you run steam you should use an in line displacement oiler.Available from PMR

http://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/lubrication/displacement-lubricator/

Tin


----------



## fatvod (Apr 20, 2015)

Oh neat, maybe ill rip apart my wilesco and start with that.

This is such a neat hobby!

Steam is so much more fun to me than just running it on air, so ill definitely be going the boiler route.

Thanks for the excellent posts guys!


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 21, 2015)

Remember the laws of scaling if you get a small 1/4 bore engine from GI it will probably run fine on a wilesco boiler. 
But here is the kicker  a 1/2in bore by 1/2 stroke  engine will use 8 times the steam of a 1/4 bore  x 1/4 stroke.  volume is proportional to the cube when scaling up.  

tin


----------



## barnesrickw (Apr 21, 2015)

I started by purchasing three Graham kits.  Enjoyed assembling them very much.  Still have not run them in properly, or tried on steam.


----------



## Blogwitch (Apr 22, 2015)

This isn't just for Fatvod, but anyone who is contemplating making engines from castings.

If you are not a fairly experienced model engineer, then stay well away from Stuart kits.

They have been going for so long, I suspect that they are actually using old castings for patterns to make new casting from, so the new castings are usually very tight or can't be made to drawing because the castings are too small. So it takes a lot of thought and measurement 'fixing' to make things fit somewhere near like.
You are on your own when this happens as Stuarts standard reply is that "you are a model engineer so you should be able to sort it out by yourself".
This isn't hearsay, I have actually had to 'fix' model engines that this has happened to.

John


----------



## Mechanicboy (Apr 22, 2015)

Gus, here is the steam cars in this homepage..  

http://www.mamod.co.uk/product-category/mobile-model-steam-engines


----------



## kadora (Apr 22, 2015)

For IC engines enthusiasts
http://fabrication-moteur.over-blog.com/
http://www.classic-motors.at/


----------



## fatvod (Apr 22, 2015)

Tin Falcon said:


> Remember the laws of scaling if you get a small 1/4 bore engine from GI it will probably run fine on a wilesco boiler.
> But here is the kicker  a 1/2in bore by 1/2 stroke  engine will use 8 times the steam of a 1/4 bore  x 1/4 stroke.  volume is proportional to the cube when scaling up.
> 
> tin



Okay, I had no idea you would need to scale up steam production that much depending on bore size, thats good info. Unfortunately GI doesnt seem to list bore size on many of their engines.


----------



## GailInNM (Apr 22, 2015)

For reference, all the Graham Industries engines are 1/2 inch bore X 5/8 stroke except the HM1 mill engine is 0.343 bore x 1/2 inch stroke.
Gail in NM


----------



## Tin Falcon (Apr 23, 2015)

> Okay, I had no idea you would need to scale up steam production that much depending on bore size, thats good info.



There is a bit more to it than just bore size. 
the 8x figure is based  on doubling the bore and stroke  and assuming the same valve design and same working pressure. and rpm. 
this is a rule of thumb.  

There are ways of increasing run time. A larger engine  will run on less pressure and if you slow the engine it will reduce steam consumption . 
you can also increase boiler output/ engine run time by adding a pump to add water.
There is no cut and dry exact. but just wanted to give a heads up . so you were not surprised if one engine runs say 8 minutes on a head of steam and big brother sucks down the steam in a mere minute. 
Tin


----------



## bobs7-62steamair (Jan 30, 2018)

PM Research Inc. sells fully machined kit engines ready for assembly for a lot less than the 1K you mentioned---pmmodelengines.com is their website.


----------



## Cogsy (Jan 31, 2018)

bobs7-62steamair said:


> PM Research Inc. sells fully machined kit engines ready for assembly for a lot less than the 1K you mentioned---pmmodelengines.com is their website.


 
This thread is 3 years old so the original poster likely doesn't need the info now...


----------



## fatvod (Jan 31, 2018)

I still appreciate the updates


----------



## JCSteam (Jan 31, 2018)

Well while your here, kits can be bought from PMR research, I think Stuart are doing ready machined kits, though I am interested if you found something? Have you built an engine up?
As a newbie to the hobby, I would say that these engines can be built at home with limited experience, I just tend to pick everyone else's brains then go ahead and do it, a lathe is only around £500..... or there's a myford on ebay much like my ML4 for only £200.... just a thought


----------



## kadora (Jan 31, 2018)

Here is link to the producer of stirlings , flame eaters and steam engines
from Germany.
https://www.bengs-modellbau.de


----------

