# Heavy thread cutting on light lathe



## clockworkcheval (Mar 17, 2022)

I have to cut a thread M35x3 on my Schaublin 102 VM. The heaviest I ever did, with some trouble , was a 1,25 mm pitch so a 3 mm pitch is a challenge. The traditional methods  to cut a thread all end up with 3 mm facing the tool.







So I decide to try cutting the groove in layers:






Basically when I advance in x - steps of 0,05 mm and in y - steps of 0,09 mm the resulting feed will be 0,10 mm under an angle of 29 degrees, which is fine. To actually do it I found it useful to draft a cutting schedule. My thread has a flat top of 0,5 mm wide and also a flat bottom of 0,5 mm wide, giving a depth of thread of about 1,65 mm. This I decided to do in two layers. I have ground my 60 degree thread cutting tool with a flat top of 0,5 mm. The resulting cutting schedule is:






The thread I have to cut is an inner thread. I decide first to cut two outer threads to try out the difference. The first picture is the thread cut by the traditional method of advancing the tool by half the thread angle minus a little bit. I used a 60 degree sharp tipped tool. Beyond a depth of about 1,0 mm the forces on the tool pushed the tool back.  After the last cut I did try to compensate for this spring-effect by cutting again with the same settings. A full five times the tool kept cutting while veering back to the correct position. The effect as you can see is that the resulting thread has become quite sharp. The thread flanges themselves are fairly smooth for the purpose of this thread.








Doing the layered cut felt in the beginning cumbersome, but the cutting itself went quite smoothly. Every once in a while I did a second cut with the same settings and I found hardly any veering back of the tool. At the end the 0,5 mm wide tip of the tool caused some chatter. The thread profile came out as planned. See picture.






For my light lathe both methods will probably work wit some adaptions. I think the traditional method will work if I re-cut with the same settings e.g every second cut. The layered cut which felt much smoother in execution wil probably work fine if I grind my tool with a smoothly rounded tip instead of a square tip.


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## SmithDoor (Mar 17, 2022)

A high rake angle will a better finish.  
I typically finish the thread with file. 

Dave 



clockworkcheval said:


> I have to cut a thread M35x3 on my Schaublin 102 VM. The heaviest I ever did, with some trouble , was a 1,25 mm pitch so a 3 mm pitch is a challenge. The traditional methods  to cut a thread all end up with 3 mm facing the tool.
> 
> View attachment 135169
> 
> ...


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## SmithDoor (Mar 17, 2022)

What size lathe do you have?

Dave


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 17, 2022)

The Schaublin 102 VM is a 90 year old Swiss design, center height above bed 102 mm, distance between centers 500 mm. My lathe is about 60 - 70 year old and has 0,02 mm play in the headstock front bearing. I need to address that, but it requires a for me quite complex dismantling of the headstock so I keep putting it of.


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## SmithDoor (Mar 17, 2022)

Looks like great   lathe


			Schaublin 102-VM Lathe
		


I have South Bend 9A built about same time (1949) and it will cut 8tpi acme thread. Witch in metric is 3.175 mm. 

The problem most have is trying to use a low rake angle. Use a rake angle of 7° to 12° and your lathe can do a great job.

HSS did give best finish. 
I have use carbide threading insert and did give finish I wanted .

Dave



clockworkcheval said:


> The Schaublin 102 VM is a 90 year old Swiss design, center height above bed 102 mm, distance between centers 500 mm. My lathe is about 60 - 70 year old and has 0,02 mm play in the headstock front bearing. I need to address that, but it requires a for me quite complex dismantling of the headstock so I keep putting it of.


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 18, 2022)

Thank you for the advice, Dave. I normally use a zero rake angle. But I wil try out your suggestion!


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## ajoeiam (Mar 18, 2022)

clockworkcheval said:


> I have to cut a thread M35x3 on my Schaublin 102 VM. The heaviest I ever did, with some trouble , was a 1,25 mm pitch so a 3 mm pitch is a challenge. The traditional methods  to cut a thread all end up with 3 mm facing the tool.
> 
> View attachment 135169
> 
> ...


Left everything because I'm going to try and refer to the pics.

I would suggest that you rough out the V before finishing.

          x
       x    x
    x          x
x                x

is what you want 

so maybe start with a rigidly held parting tool (held short for rigidity!!!!!)
making a rectangular shape stopping short of the sides of the V

or for seconds you grind a form tool and use it at two different angles

                x                                          x
             x x                                          x  x
           x   x                                          x    x
         x    x                                            x    x
      x     x                                               x    x
          a third operation (using possible a parting tool would then be used to hog that center pillar

(It appears that the formatting is being lost - - - argh!!!!!!) 

I was taught to use hogging methods to cut larger acme threads (or square thread even more useful).
Gets useful when making worm gears.

I think that no matter what technique you are going to use that you'll find that things will get 'interesting'.
Likely because you're asking a little girl to do a big job (imo) and she is struggling.

What you show in your pics is that you've already got the idea covered.

I do remember my boss cutting the thread with maybe even 8 passes at the same 'finished' depth.
So just doing 1 'spring' pass  - - - - maybe do a few more.
(That gets to be like burnishing but it did get good parts!)

This might be a time to use HSS tools.

You work planning is impressive!!!!
Thank you for sharing!!!!!!


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## timo_gross (Mar 18, 2022)

clockworkcheval said:


> The thread I have to cut is an inner thread.


Can you mill the thread? I use it sometimes for very small outer threads.

I saw the idea here



Required for milling is a tool, something like this. 



And some sort of motorized spindle to mount onto the cross slide.

I usually turn the motor (thread milling tool, not the lathe) on.
Then I put the lathe in lowest possible gear or even turn it by hand using a spanner on the chuck jaws. (then the lathe is powered off entirely)

Just had a look, unfortunately 3 mm pitch mills are for M24. Big, expensive and difficult to get.


Greetings Timo


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## SmithDoor (Mar 18, 2022)

clockworkcheval said:


> Thank you for the advice, Dave. I normally use a zero rake angle. But I wil try out your suggestion!


My father used 0 angle too.
But one day I was looking at drills and taps had high rake and the cut about same time was reading about automatic screw machines . So try it and work great and never look back. 
The only material that needs a low angle or 0 angle is brass. 

Dave


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## timo_gross (Mar 18, 2022)

SmithDoor said:


> My father used 0 angle too.
> But one day I was looking at drills and taps had high rake and the cut about same time was reading about automatic screw machines . So try it and work great and never look back.
> The only material that needs a low angle or 0 angle is brass.
> 
> Dave


How do I grind the tool then?
Somewhere I saw a comment that the rake will mess with flank angle. I could not figure out if that is really true. 
Making Module1 worms requires similar theading, so that would come handy to get a better tool geometry.

Greetings Timo


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 18, 2022)

Thanks for all the ideas and advise! Hogging out seems especially useful as I have indeed som trapezium threads in the forecast!


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## SmithDoor (Mar 18, 2022)

I use a gear test gauge for grinding the tool bit.. 
After grinding the profile then a grind the rake angle. 

Dave 



timo_gross said:


> How do I grind the tool then?
> Somewhere I saw a comment that the rake will mess with flank angle. I could not figure out if that is really true.
> Making Module1 worms requires similar theading, so that would come handy to get a better tool geometry.
> 
> Greetings Timo


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## SmithDoor (Mar 18, 2022)

You mill your own profile too.
Not all worms have a easy to buy profile test gauge.  It is easy to make from aluminum flat bar.

Dave 



timo_gross said:


> How do I grind the tool then?
> Somewhere I saw a comment that the rake will mess with flank angle. I could not figure out if that is really true.
> Making Module1 worms requires similar theading, so that would come handy to get a better tool geometry.
> 
> Greetings Timo


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## ajoeiam (Mar 19, 2022)

clockworkcheval said:


> Thanks for all the ideas and advise! Hogging out seems especially useful as I have indeed som trapezium threads in the forecast!



You know - - - - one idea hasn't been mentioned yet! 

A buddy with a bigger lathe. 
Even a 500 mm dia spin (IIRC 250 mm radius is a more customary nomenclature) should make easy work of that. 
Then its not even a big job! 

You would have lots of things (functions) that you could trade!!! 
(The work you've shown is impressive!)


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## mu38&Bg# (Mar 19, 2022)

If the machine needs service, it needs service. You're giving up a lot in that machine with worn or loose bearings.

Typically, each pass is taking the same volume of cut. Looking at the multipass schedule for the tipped off tool, you have a large number of low volume passes in the first few cuts. The idea is to maintain tool pressure. This is a typical CNC threading cycle. You can also finish the side of the thread independently by leaving the tip flat smaller than final size and adjusting axial position.






When adding rake the angle must be accounted for. For small rake angles and thread pitch it's likely within tolerance. If necessary, refer to the thread standards. Larger pitch has smaller tolerance on the angle.


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## SmithDoor (Mar 19, 2022)

Sound good but this used on old lathe for reading the dial. The old lathes dial was on radius not diameter.  So angle the compound to about 30° and compound would move on the diameter. 

When cut thread I feed on cross slide.
With high rake it feeds and the finish in great..

Dave 



dieselpilot said:


> If the machine needs service, it needs service. You're giving up a lot in that machine with worn or loose bearings.
> 
> Typically, each pass is taking the same volume of cut. Looking at the multipass schedule for the tipped off tool, you have a large number of low volume passes in the first few cuts. The idea is to maintain tool pressure. This is a typical CNC threading cycle. You can also finish the side of the thread independently by leaving the tip flat smaller than final size and adjusting axial position.
> 
> ...


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## SmithDoor (Mar 19, 2022)

FYI 
If you doing grinding on lathe you set the compound to 6°. Then compound will feed grinding wheel into the bar 0.000,1 per mark on compound.
The old lathes using radius feed use 3°

Dave 



dieselpilot said:


> If the machine needs service, it needs service. You're giving up a lot in that machine with worn or loose bearings.
> 
> Typically, each pass is taking the same volume of cut. Looking at the multipass schedule for the tipped off tool, you have a large number of low volume passes in the first few cuts. The idea is to maintain tool pressure. This is a typical CNC threading cycle. You can also finish the side of the thread independently by leaving the tip flat smaller than final size and adjusting axial position.
> 
> ...


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 20, 2022)

Hi Dieselpilot, your comment is justified. However the family tradition says that my grandmother had to drive the threadle of her Dad's lathe when he needed to concentrate on a fragile precision part. As apprentice in a Brussels factory I worked at a belt-driven lathe. I myself had a broad leather belt on, to which was attached a stick with which to handle the belt-shifter. You would do forward-neutral-backward with a wriggle of your hips. In the late sixties my project for my engineerings master was the design and realization of a numerical control for a medium sized mill. The control was OK, but I found that the conventional machinetools of the time were by far not stiff enough to handle NC, even with feedback-loops. Of course all that changed in the last 50-60 years. But on retirement I decided to go back to the classic manufacturing technology of up to the sixties, that is kind of inbred in my family.
Nevertheless you are right - all machinetools need their tender loving care. As I'm a slow operator its going to take me time to do the spindle revision of my Schaublin 102 VM. So the first step was the acquisition of another lathe to work in the meantime. A beautiful Myford Super Seven in mint condition from a friend of mine that was operated as a back-up lathe and never cut many chips. As soon as I have installed DRO's to read Metric on this Imperial machine I will start the revision of the Schaublin.


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## Bentwings (Mar 20, 2022)

clockworkcheval said:


> Hi Dieselpilot, your comment is justified. However the family tradition says that my grandmother had to drive the threadle of her Dad's lathe when he needed to concentrate on a fragile precision part. As apprentice in a Brussels factory I worked at a belt-driven lathe. I myself had a broad leather belt on, to which was attached a stick with which to handle the belt-shifter. You would do forward-neutral-backward with a wriggle of your hips. In the late sixties my project for my engineerings master was the design and realization of a numerical control for a medium sized mill. The control was OK, but I found that the conventional machinetools of the time were by far not stiff enough to handle NC, even with feedback-loops. Of course all that changed in the last 50-60 years. But on retirement I decided to go back to the classic manufacturing technology of up to the sixties, that is kind of inbred in my family.
> Nevertheless you are right - all machinetools need their tender loving care. As I'm a slow operator its going to take me time to do the spindle revision of my Schaublin 102 VM. So the first step was the acquisition of another lathe to work in the meantime. A beautiful Myford Super Seven in mint condition from a friend of mine that was operated as a back-up lathe and never cut many chips. As soon as I have installed DRO's to read Metric on this Imperial machine I will start the revision of the Schaublin.


Last year at the farm show there was a lady all of 80 that did the wiggle wag and flipped a foot wide belt over on notch on the steam tractor  driven saw mill.  She also stacked the raw cut boards as they were being sawn . She also had what was probably a period correct colt holster on . It probably would have been a good idea to talk respectfully with her.


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## mu38&Bg# (Mar 20, 2022)

Please understand my comment about the CNC had nothign to do with modern machinery, but the method applied to achieve equal cutting forces on each pass. My 10" Clausing 4900 struggled to perform when the bearings became loose. Fortunately, it uses taper rollers and correcting preload was simple.


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## Bentwings (Mar 20, 2022)

dieselpilot said:


> Please understand my comment about the CNC had nothign to do with modern machinery, but the method applied to achieve equal cutting forces on each pass. My 10" Clausing 4900 struggled to perform when the bearings became loose. Fortunately, it uses taper rollers and correcting preload was simple.


When doing some of the stuff we do in our little home shops with light tools and machines it’s necessary to finesse things and not do massive cuts that even a little larger equipment is capable of. Most of us have been in shops where chips are hauled around the shop in 55 gallon barbells by fork lift or heavier moving things. Instead of a barrel we might have an old cereal bowl for chips , toss them in the recycle trash can.   Drilling and tapping an m 2 screw thread as an example in some brass flat stock . . Getting piston rings seated in a tiny bore . I’m running into this issue too. I know exactly what I need but conveying my needs to my boys is some times hard . The chip is not much bigger than my kitty fur. A days scrap fits in a sandwich bag. 
I’m sure everyone has shop stories of nightmare projects . Cnc has made many things easier no doubt but it still takes knowledge of how to make things large or small. 

Byron


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 20, 2022)

In our hobby we operate in the domain of knowledge lost. At times this is frustrating, but also exciting because it necessitates re-inventing the wheel on a daily basis.


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## Lloyd-ss (Mar 20, 2022)

It is very helpful to see so many different suggestions for a single challenge.  Often, we are trying to get our machines to do things that they never were supposed to be able to do.  I have always said that knowing the "tricks" is the secret. Some we learn ourselves, others, are graciously shared by other members.

On my  bench top grizzly lathe, for very heavy work, or interrupted cuts, I made a solid steel block tool post that temporarily replaces the compound and gets rid of an amazing amount of chatter. I don't use it very often, but when I need it, it sure is nice.

Another thing that I do for threading, and I know this will make some of you cringe and shake your head, but if I have to cut a few identical large inside and outside threads, that must be interchangeable and precise, I will order a matching tap and die from China. They are reasonably inexpensive on ebay. Then I machine the threads to within a few thou and only use the tap or die to do the final cleanup to bring the thread into size, give it a pretty finish and profile, and finish the root and crest.  Honestly, it gives me some peace of mind knowing that the thread is correct, especially on heavily loaded parts.


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## Steamchick (Mar 21, 2022)

I bought a set of thread chasers for finishing machined threads. They will not cut 95% of the metal out but will finish to the finished thread profile better than I can do otherwise. Try Tracy Tools in Dartmouth, UK, for thread chasers...
K2


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## Bentwings (Mar 21, 2022)

Lloyd-ss said:


> It is very helpful to see so many different suggestions for a single challenge.  Often, we are trying to get our machines to do things that they never were supposed to be able to do.  I have always said that knowing the "tricks" is the secret. Some we learn ourselves, others, are graciously shared by other members.
> 
> On my  bench top grizzly lathe, for very heavy work, or interrupted cuts, I made a solid steel block tool post that temporarily replaces the compound and gets rid of an amazing amount of chatter. I don't use it very often, but when I need it, it sure is nice.
> 
> Another thing that I do for threading, and I know this will make some of you cringe and shake your head, but if I have to cut a few identical large inside and outside threads, that must be interchangeable and precise, I will order a matching tap and die from China. They are reasonably inexpensive on ebay. Then I machine the threads to within a few thou and only use the tap or die to do the final cleanup to bring the thread into size, give it a pretty finish and profile, and finish the root and crest.  Honestly, it gives me some peace of mind knowing that the thread is correct, especially on heavily loaded parts.





Steamchick said:


> I bought a set of thread chasers for finishing machined threads. They will not cut 95% of the metal out but will finish to the finished thread profile better than I can do otherwise. Try Tracy Tools in Dartmouth, UK, for thread chasers...
> K2


using a tap as threading tool has been very popular on small lathes it was a trick I used on my early entry into tool making . I had a 2-56 thread on stainless steel right in the middle of sbout 4” long shaft. I had to make a special follower rest that telescoped as I went down the threads  then there was the bating nut or internal threads be though the lathe was a brand new Harding tool room lathe with all the attachments it was a real trick to make these parts . They were a poor design in the first place . The company had been having them made outside at rediculous  price . The manufacturing meeting was my almost first go around at being the subject of discussion.   I was no champion of debate so things got hot criticizing the head of engineering , but it was a successful solution at the time. 

It’s always interesting to see what others do in difficult situations using tools beyond their design intent is not a fault try not to get hurt in the process.. I’m in the misfile of a nasty little fix on my new steamer.  Too pushing our small lathe and mill to the limits seems like daily thing. However it certainly brings out creativity. It’s realy nice when my young grandson does some work around. I don’t discourage it at all. He has done some neat things with less than optimum equipment. 

Byron


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## awake (Mar 21, 2022)

Lloyd-ss said:


> Another thing that I do for threading, and I know this will make some of you cringe and shake your head, but if I have to cut a few identical large inside and outside threads, that must be interchangeable and precise, I will order a matching tap and die from China. They are reasonably inexpensive on ebay. Then I machine the threads to within a few thou and only use the tap or die to do the final cleanup to bring the thread into size, give it a pretty finish and profile, and finish the root and crest.  Honestly, it gives me some peace of mind knowing that the thread is correct, especially on heavily loaded parts.


No cringing here - I do the same thing at times, especially for smaller thread sizes.


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## Lloyd-ss (Mar 21, 2022)

Bentwings said:


> ..................It’s realy nice when my young grandson does some work around. I don’t discourage it at all. He has done some neat things with less than optimum equipment.


Both you and your grandson are lucky. He will always remember these good times with his grandpa.


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## Bentwings (Mar 21, 2022)

Lloyd-ss said:


> Both you and your grandson are lucky. He will always remember these good times with his grandpa.


speakilg of using tools beyond normal function, I’d like opinion of this. 
I have a small drill press that has a remarkable spindle. It has as near as I currently can measure no real looseness or run out . I’ve not seen anything like this. It has had very little use . 5 speed step pulleys near new belt. Tilt table round column. 1 hp. I have an X Y  table that is very good again no real play and it dials smoothly  nice clamp kit new. 
I have very limited space roughly half a kitchen table. So I’m looking on internet and found a indexing rotary table with small 3 or 4” chuck. It tilts and has a tail stock. I won’t be doing any production work just “ need it now” hobby stuff most of what I would ever make could be made in 1 cu ft of space beyond machine . Maybe including machine. . Threads I can drill and start. I think I could cut grooves even cut off with slitting saws. I might have to make or purchase an arbor . I can mount a small machinist vice for work holding. Initial test shows reasonable cut with 4?flute 1/4” end mill . I tried a carbide burr and it will cut aluminum with tap magic oil problem .drilled 1/2” hole through 1x1 1/8 wall steel tube without complaining.   There are powered rotary table but I think that might be out of range. Cost and usefulness . I simply can’t have a lathe and or mill. There just is not enough room . My boiler project has to remain at my sons shop as I won’t have equipment for it other than what this proposed thing can handle.   The rotary table is pretty reasonable and has good reviews.  I’m projecting being able to do very light round work, possibly adding my own motor drive to the rotary. It won’t be programmable. I should be able to do minor mill type things maybe mill flat on round shaft drill even bolt patterns . No cnc plans . The way I see this is it hinges on how good the drill press really is typically these are far from  very good at all . I’ve done some work on 50 yr old worn out craftsman drill press that amazed me. Most of what I’ll do is modifying something with few made from scratch items nothing complicated or close tolerance . Rc model plane parts are often hard wood. . I can get an aluminum tool plate for a custom table if necessary . 

Part of me just says sen stuff out and have someone else do it but then it’s not a hobby 

So what do y’all Think?  Another nut case ? Better off taking a nap? I what 

Byron


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## ShopShoe (Mar 22, 2022)

Bentwings,

There's been a lot of discussion about using a drill press as a mill. It all seems to boil down to what holds the cutter you want to use. 

If you have other than a drawbar retaining your tooling, there is a risk that it will come loose under the side stresses of moving the work past the cutter. Or, it can at least wobble around and give very imprecise results. To repeat, the drill press is for applying downward force to drill a hole. (Unless you are talking about specialized milling drill presses or mill/drills which cost as much or more than a milling machine.)

I have used a rotary table and a cross-slide vise on my drill press, but only for setting the workpiece for the locations where I wanted  holes drilled. I did put an endmill in the drill chuck one time to try to cut a slot and the taper-mounted chuck promptly came loose: It was scary, but I was saved by the fact that the endmill through the slot I was cutting in an aluminum electronics housing kept it from flying free. 

You can drill holes with a mill, you can mill with a lathe when you have a milling attachment. Generally combination lathe/mill machines are less desirable, but you can use one if you have extreme space limitations. It is up to you to decide what to do.

--ShopShoe


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 22, 2022)

Once upon a time I had a lathe-mill. After several years banging my head on the mill-head it finally dawned that for me this is not a desirable combination machine.


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## Bentwings (Mar 22, 2022)

ShopShoe said:


> Bentwings,
> 
> There's been a lot of discussion about using a drill press as a mill. It all seems to boil down to what holds the cutter you want to use. Thank you I do agree I’ve not had good luck using drill press outside of it envelope . I did work in a repair shop that had a really big radial drill it had an X Y table that was used in red rolling repaired stuff and some milling but it did have draw bar. I’ve not seen collets or even drill chucks as large as this thing had . It was a brute of a machine . I YHINK it came from the railroad car shops or mining industry . I don’t remover how big the motor was but it was very big. It had a vee block , an adjustable angle table and cube block all took a pretty big fork lift to move around.
> 
> ...


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## SmithDoor (Mar 22, 2022)

The lathe-mill combo has place like small place and on a ship. 
I have small bench Chinese bench drill/mill that works great after some rework. Surprising how well works too. 

Dave 



clockworkcheval said:


> Once upon a time I had a lathe-mill. After several years banging my head on the mill-head it finally dawned that for me this is not a desirable combination machine.


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## ajoeiam (Mar 23, 2022)

ShopShoe said:


> Bentwings,
> 
> There's been a lot of discussion about using a drill press as a mill. It all seems to boil down to what holds the cutter you want to use.
> 
> ...



Well - - - - if you look at older boring mills - - - - they ALL used taper shank tool holding systems - - - - NO drawbar!!! 
Now these aren't the boring mills from the 80s and the 90s but if this system was used for some at least 50 years (30s to the 80s) - - - - hmmmmmm - - - - why is it NOT possible to use similar today?


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## ShopShoe (Mar 23, 2022)

ajoeiam,

I think you do have a point. I did use a drill press with a morse taper and morse taper drill bit one time in my life and it was a diffrent experience than a more recent machine. My bad experience was with a drill press with a jacobs taper holding a chuck in which I installed the endmill. I was referring to a machine similar to the latter example in my earlier post.

It boils down to what an individual wants to do in his or her own shop. That individual is the only one who knows what his own machines and abilities can truly handle. As always: "Your Mileage May Vary."

--ShopShoe


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## SmithDoor (Mar 23, 2022)

The spindle on the drill press is different. The Morse tapper is below the bearings. A mill spindle is in quill.

Today's Chinese drill press have Morse tapper in the quill must like a BridgePort mill.

I would not say a drill press is same as a good mill but will job. But a Bridge Port mill is a light mill too and has own problems over a good heavy duty mill.

I seen photo of a few good drill press mills from 1950's and 1960's.

Most stop doing this conversion since low cost mills from China. 
As prices go up this conversion will comeback. 

Myself I started will milling attachments on my lathe for years.
It work great for keyway milling.
Milling keyway and a few types milling can be done in Aloris Tool post too.

Dave



ShopShoe said:


> ajoeiam,
> 
> I think you do have a point. I did use a drill press with a morse taper and morse taper drill bit one time in my life and it was a diffrent experience than a more recent machine. My bad experience was with a drill press with a jacobs taper holding a chuck in which I installed the endmill. I was referring to a machine similar to the latter example in my earlier post.
> 
> ...


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## Steamchick (Mar 24, 2022)

I have a cheap mill-drill, and simply it isn't a "proper job"... But for light cuts, with care and attention it can be made to do a very good milling job. As a bench drill, it is as good as any I have used.
But it is well worn ( previous 2 owners forgot the slides need lubrication, I guess!).
Maybe one day I'll replace it with something better, but as I have just enough space for that, and it becomes the bench when not in use, then maybe when I move to a bigger house/workshop.... (Sometime, never?).

K2


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## L98fiero (Mar 24, 2022)

ajoeiam said:


> Well - - - - if you look at older boring mills - - - - they ALL used taper shank tool holding systems - - - - NO drawbar!!!
> Now these aren't the boring mills from the 80s and the 90s but if this system was used for some at least 50 years (30s to the 80s) - - - - hmmmmmm - - - - why is it NOT possible to use similar today?


The 1950s 100mm HBM I ran had a #5 Morse taper and no drawbar but it did have a locking wedge that fit in the extraction slot, the step up to the new HBM with ISO40 tooling was a huge improvement.


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## Bentwings (Mar 26, 2022)

ShopShoe said:


> ajoeiam,
> 
> I think you do have a point. I did use a drill press with a morse taper and morse taper drill bit one time in my life and it was a diffrent experience than a more recent machine. My bad experience was with a drill press with a jacobs taper holding a chuck in which I installed the endmill. I was referring to a machine similar to the latter example in my earlier post.
> 
> ...


I’ve seen a couple people have used the jacobs taper I YHINK there is a collet holder too . The issues seems that if you are doing something with vibrating tooling like a hole saw or did cutting end mill in drill chuck the chuck falls out just when you need it. The fix I’ve seen was to drill though the spindle wall tap it some convientvdize snd use it as a set screw . Grind a flat on the jacobs shank . I saw one with a brass point but most use a grade 8 socket head screw or bolt  I’ve had the chuck fall out on old craftsman drill presses generally guys smash the chuck in often with a heavy brass hammer . The drill press I’ve inherited has jacobs that is stuck . It’s probably rusted.  Actually a dowel pin runs pretty true for a drill press and jacobs drill chuck . It had a drill bit stuck in it I finally got a good chuck key and got it out but the chuck is pretty rough . Again probably rust . I can now at least clean it. I don’t have a chizzle that I get the thing out with yet but my son did he would bring one over . Then I’ll look at what’s there snd what is available  I may do the drill and tap thing as the spindle doesn’t seem very hard. . That thin lock tite I have may work to stick a new chuck or arbor in .  It wicks like super glue so I may warm . 
Byron


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## SmithDoor (Mar 26, 2022)

I have had few tools like over the years . I just scrape the bed ways and back to new again with oil now. 

Dave 




Steamchick said:


> I have a cheap mill-drill, and simply it isn't a "proper job"... But for light cuts, with care and attention it can be made to do a very good milling job. As a bench drill, it is as good as any I have used.
> But it is well worn ( previous 2 owners forgot the slides need lubrication, I guess!).
> Maybe one day I'll replace it with something better, but as I have just enough space for that, and it becomes the bench when not in use, then maybe when I move to a bigger house/workshop.... (Sometime, never?).
> 
> K2


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