# Another PeeWee



## e.picler

Hello to all!
After finishing the Tiny 4 Inline from Kelly, it was a time to start a new project.
I have decided for the PeeWee from Bob Shores, it is 4 cylinders in a "V" configuration.
I have purchased the casting kit a couple years ago from Dirk Tollenaar

With the drawings I got a revised version from Steve Hucks. After studying the drawings, I decided to use Steve version as well as following his instructions/guide for machining the Block

I started on the oil pan following the instructions



















TKS,

Edi


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## Cogsy

I've been waiting for this build Edi, and I'll be following along for sure!


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
Some more work done on the PeeWee. That is the block turn.

I clamped down the block to the table flat on the bottom and just touched the peak of the cylinder banks with skim cut.





The distributor boss was just cleaned up for the scribe line





The block was then rotated bottom up and a minimum skim cut taken to clean up the bottom.





The center of the distributor boss was found and transposed to the rear of the block.
The center of the bottom of the block was also found and transposed to the rear of the block and the two points connected.





Faced the bottom to the final dimention





Faced and drilled the the bottom of the center bearing support then installed on the block





Machined the pockets with support in place.





Drilled and tapped the holes for the oil pan





Oil pan installed. Ready for the crankshaf and cam holes





Tks,

Edi


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## e.picler

More work done on the block.

Clamped the block on the vise and faced the front of the block leaving 0.2mm for further finishing










Turned the block up and machined the rear surface





Next I clamped the block on a square devise with the front of the block facing up 





I used the parallel on the bottom to asure alingment





Next I indicated the bottom of the block to get the conter line of the crankshaft










Than the crankshaft, idller gear pocket and camshaft holes were drilled. I started with a center drill then used a 8mm drill to start and next a 14.5mm drill bit









Tks,

Edi


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## bengt-olausson

Nice work, I like it.
Bengt


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## natalefr

Wow !


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## e.picler

More progress on the PeeWee block
After drilling the holes with a 14.5mm drill bit, I used a 12mm end mill to start the idller gear pocket





Using the boring head, I finished the crankshaft, camshaft holes and idller gear pocket










Next I drilled and tapped the holes for the timing cover and water pump





The block then turned over with the back facing up for the final maching block length. I indicated the hole to find the center in order to drill the water passages holes










The following work will be the cylinders holes
I wish to have a better English vocabulary (specially technical) to better explain how I did the maching. I hope the pictures compensate that deficience.

Thanks,

Edi


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## johnmcc69

Nice work Edi, this will turn out very nice after your success with your online 4. Great pictures & they clearly show what you intend.

 Keep up the great work!

 John


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## e.picler

Hi to all! Thank you Bengt, John and Natale.

I did some more work on the block this weekend, I will post it during this week.
I think I will be able to finish this building faster then the Tiny Inline 4. I have more time available then the previous Project

Tks,

Edi


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## e.picler

Hello to all there!
I managed to get some more work done on the PeeWee V4

Following the instructions from Steve, I inserted a 13mm (I'm using metric) rod on the crankshaft hole then I found the center of the cylinder bank and marked 6.5mm each side. Using a square I aligned the side of the rod with the sides of the marks to assure vertical alignment.




Using a pointer, the center of the bank was found





Indicated rod on the front and the back to assure alignment





Machined the the top surface to the proper hight and started the holes with a 8mm drill bit





Next I used a 14.5mm drill bit





Using the same setup I drilled and taped the head holes





Finally the boring head was used to finish boring the cylinder holes and counter boring





The same was done for the other bank






Next I inverted the block on the vise and I indicated the rod to assure vertical and horizontal alignment





The distributor boss was machined to the right hight. After finding the center of the rod, the distributor hole was bored and the PVC hole was bored and taped





That is it for now.
TKS,
Edi


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## michael-au

Looking good, nice work


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## bengt-olausson

Still looking realy nice.


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## e.picler

Thanks Michael and Bengt for the kind words.
I have managed to get some more progress on the PeeWee.
I cut the water jackets, the Bellhousing adapter and the Bellhousing cast

Indicating the cylinder hole to find the center





Using a 16mm x 6mm key cutter, the water jackets was cut. I did not use the rotary table, I just moved the X and Y axis (Steve method)





Here you can see the little pics on the water jackect diameter, because it is not a perfect circle




 As my CNC milling control box is under maintenance I had to use the lathe to machine the Bellhousing adapter
I used a 4 independent jaws juck to hold a 68X57X6mm aluminum blank





Then it was finished on the milling

Edi


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## Brian Rupnow

Very high quality work. I will follow your build, you are doing a great job.---Brian


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
More work done, this time on the Bellhousing
Turning the inside diameter. I have used a four self centering juck





Here I'm machining a light pass between the tabs to give it more uniformity. I moved the juck by hand back forth using a 3mm end mill on the small grinder adapted on the tool post





Using a file and sand paper I finished the outside





Using the same setup the tab holes were drilled





Using the adaptor plate, Ifixed the bellhousing on it to machine the square on its end





And finally I gave a touch on the tabs to correct its irregularity. I fixed a 2mm drill bit on the vise and a 6mm on the drill juck. Moving the bellhousing around the tabs were finished





Here is what I have finished so far





Next I will start the cylinder heads

Thanks,

Edi


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## e.picler

Thank you Brian!
Compared to your work, I am still an apprentice.

Edi


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## atkinson582

hello,

can the pee wee v4 block work be done on a 7 x 16 lathe with a milling attachment?


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## e.picler

Hello Atkinson!
I think your equipment can do the job without a problem.
Do you have the castings?

Edi


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## atkinson582

e.picler said:


> Hello Atkinson!
> I think your equipment can do the job without a problem.
> Do you have the castings?
> 
> Edi


Edi,

Yes I have the castings. I have been working on some of the small brass parts. So you think I'd be able to do the milling of the block on my lathe with a milling attachment?


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## e.picler

Hi Atikinson!

Yes, I think you will be able to machine the block. The only more dificult part is the cylinder bores but, with a little patience you get there.
Go ahead and just start that. You can count on me if you think I could help.

Good luck!

Edi


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## michael-au

Nice work on the castings, will be watching the progress of this engine


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## e.picler

hello to all!
Little more progress.
I have worked on the Cylinder heads, Timing Cover and Water Pump.
After machining the head to the finish dimentions, I remade the grooves to get a better appearance.










Locating the edge





I used a 16mm flat end mill to make the recess for the combustion chamber




















Locating the intake runner





Exaust runner





Valve cages




More pictures on the way.

Tks

Edi


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## e.picler

Hello!
Here are some more photos of my progress.
The heads are almost finished. It is only missing to drill the running holes on the valve cages.

Valve cages are finished 








Pressing in the valve cages into the holes









I decided to advance on those parts that demand milling machining so, I got a touch on the Pump and the Timing Cover

Raw material/blanks prepared for the Pump Body and Back plate and the Timing Cover





In order to get a more visual attractive, I have added a fillet on the inner border of the Timing Cover it have 1mm high. 
I have used the Fusion 360 to do that once I need 3D drawing to use the SprutCam.
I hope it do not interfere with the crankshaft pulley otherwise I will need to chage it to clear the space between them

Programing the G-Code on SprutCam 





I have machined it on the CNC milling machine











To be continued. 

Edi


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## e.picler

Hi again! Continuing with Timing Cover progress.

Almost finished,





Here I'm using a 4mm ball end end mill to add a radious on the botton of  epigot





Drilling the patern holes





Timing Cover finished on milling. It still need the bearing sitting hole on the back, it will be done on the lathe





Next will be the Waer Pump

Tks,

Edi


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## e.picler

Water Pump machining
It was also machined on the CNC. I started on the Back Plate

Contour and holes drilled. The fixing holes were done with a regular drill bit however, the gear shaft holes and the plug thread were machined (circle mill)





Finished the first side





The botton holding extra hight material (3.5mm) was removed





I gave a light cleaning pass on the top surface to guarantee a very flat surface for good sealing against the body surface





Water Pump body is the next.

Edi


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## e.picler

Water Pump.
It was also machined on the CNC






Finished






We have a saying here in Brazil that says that the happiness of the poor one does not last for long. MISTAKE  DONE!!!!

As always, I screw something that was going nice with the part. Brurrrr!!!!!

An error was done when relocating the center of the bearing sitting on the bottom side when programing the second side





More than two hours of work LOST!

Had to do it all over again. That's OK, in the end it came out nice GOOD ONE!

Here is where I am so far





Thanks,

Edi


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## e.picler

Completing the Water Pump.

Preparing the gears on the lathe. Facing to right lenght





Reamering the hole 3mm





Pressed in the the gears on the shafts





The body is finished





Machining the wrench hex on the inlet plug. I have used a ER25 Hex block instead of the dividing head to avoid removing the aligned vise.  lazy!!!!





Turning the Outlet tubing. I also changed it a little bit. I have used a long 2.5mm drill bit for the hole





I will make another pulley, the small 2mm headless screw broke the hex wrench pocket inside the threaded hole (no way to remove it).  I also made a mistake on the front
facing as you can see on the photo below.





Pump completed










This weekend I got a good progress. I have finished the Fan, Exaust Flanges, and the Distributor Cap
I plan to post it also today.

Thanks,

Edi


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## stevehuckss396

Looks good buddy! 

Nice looking parts. When you do your final assembly slop the o-ring down with some silicone grease real good.


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## e.picler

Hi Steve! 
Thanks for the kind words and the tip for the O-ring.

Edi


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## e.picler

The Exaust Flange.
I did all four at the same blank.









To remove the extra holding hight material, I clamped the intire blank on the vise and removed as much material as possible then, I turned a pin
with the same inner diameter to avoid deforming when holding on the vise for the final cleaning









Exaust Flanges finished





The Fan turn.
I cut a piece of aluminum from a scrapped Notebook table. Cleaned a piece of a aluminum bar to get a flat surface then clamped the blank over the machined surface using small clamping device. I also used a bit of Loctite to assure good holding result.

I did a program do machine the center diameter and drill the four fixing holes. First, I used a 1.5mm drill to tap 2mm thread on the aluminum base then re-drilled the four holes to 2mm to the thickness of the blank

Next, I tapped the 2mm thread and fixed the blank with four M2 screw. Everything was done on the same fixing setup to assure concentricity 










Machining the contour on 3 passes with low feeding rate (thikness of the blank = 1.6mm)










Finished Parts





Next work, I will be dealing with the Distributor Cap

Edi


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## e.picler

As I did not purchased the Distributor Cap with the kit from Dirk, I decided to make it.

First, I did the 3D drawing on the Fusion 360. The set of drawing I'm using does not have cap drawing so, I used as reference an original drawing from Bob Shores which shows the distributor assembly cross section and have the cap on it. I found that the drawing followed a scale of 2:1 then I took some dimensions with a caliper and sketched it on the Fusion 360.

Drawing used as refrence





Drawing on the Fusion 360










It is still not the final version, I will finish it when the Distributor is complete so, I will be able to test if the dimensions are OK specially the internal heights.
For the diameters I used the distributor body dimensions, here I think there is no errors.


Next, I developed the CNC program on the SprutCam and did a machining test using Corian. I found a Du Pont dealer here on my living city and he gave me a piece of Left over material in Black color

The blank, it have 30 X 38 X 19mm





First part finished





Rounding the corners of the towers and the botton diameter





The top side finished





Removed the extra holding material on te bottom it was done onthe lathe





It was just a test. I will do some small adjustments on the program and confirm the dimensions then, make the final part.
I decided use the Corian because it is recommended for the Spark Plug Isolator so, it could be used for the Distributor Cap as well as it machines very well and give you good finishing surface


And here is the result of the Weekend work.





That is it for now!

Thanks,

Edi


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## michael-au

very nice work


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## kuhncw

Very well done.  I like your tip for holding the exhaust flanges while machining the flange surface.

Chuck


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
Some more progress to report on the PeeWee V4

Thank you Michael and Chuck!

Pump Pulley
I started turning a blank with an epigot (12mm) in order to hold it on a collet at the milling machine to drill the front 6 holes. I did this way to avoid the drill bit  slipping on the angled surface.





Next drilled and tapped the 2mm hole for the fixing screw





Back to the lathe I machined the O-ring/belt groove and the 3mm shaft hole on the same setup to assure concentricity





Finished Pulley





Next one was the Fan Pulley
For this pulley I could turn the belt/0-ring and the 3mm shaft hole on the same setup first










Then moved to the milling machine to drill and tap the fan holding holes 
Here, Getting the center of the pulley





Holes drilled and tapped





The Fan Cap. Used the same process as the Pump Pulley, using an epigot





More is coming.

Edi


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## e.picler

The pulley with the fan.





Now is the distributor turn!

Raw material for the distributor body, Magnetic Disk and the Rotor Disk. The wite material is Corian for the Rotor Disk





I have got a free sample of 12mm Corian from a local DuPont dealer. Cut it in a square shape and hold it on a 4 jaw chuck and complete turned the Rotor  Disk





Here I'm turning the Magnetic Disk, mild steel material. This operation was reamering the hole next, fliped the disk over and faced to the final thickness





That is the Distributor Body.  





Moved to the milling machine for milling operations. Here I also provided an epigot to hold the body  in the collet at milling vise 





I develop a CNC program for the fixing tab and cap holding profile










The epigot on the top for supporting the body on the collet





Turning off the epigot on the lathe with light passes to avoid to damage the bearing pocket at the bottom





More progress to report.

Edi


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## e.picler

Continuing with the PeeWee progress
I have decided to machine a shallow pocket on the Rotor Disk to better locate and glue the Rotor Conductor










To machine the Rotor Conductor, I glued a piece of brass sheet on a aluminum stock as shown in the photo bellow. I tried to glue it with 
screw loctite but did not work so I used again the super glue. Did work very well





I have programed very light passes to ovoid the brass sheet to pull off. Worked nicelly









Rotor Conductor glued with super glue





After turning the inside of the body and fixing the magnetics on the disk, I did an assembly test





Running free and smooth 





Finished Distributor. Still need to fix the Hall Sensor inside. No detail about how to hold the sensor on the body.





To be continued...

Edi


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## stevehuckss396

Nice work Edi! Looks really good.


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## e.picler

I have finished the Heads
Drilled the runners and the Spark Plug holes






















The Crankshaft Pulley





Still missing the two holding screw





And, that's how the PeeWee looks like so far




















That is all I have for now.

Thank,

Edi


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## Cogsy

You're making fast progress Edi - looks great!


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## neil_1821

Brilliant work Edi! I really want to make a peewee as there’s so much information and build threads on the internet, I really need to finish this locomotive that I’ve just started. 

Looking forward to the end result


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## e.picler

Hi Cogsy! Yes, I'm going a lot faster than the previous engine. The Tiny in Line 4 had very small parts

Thank you Neil, I'm really appreciating to build the PeeWee it is a great project.

Edi


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## e.picler

Thank you Steve and Neil!
Steve I'm being able to work a couple of hours every day and some full weekend. Thanks for your help on this project.

My last work of the year on the PeeWee.
I have finished the intake manifold. I copied Michael process, was really strait forward.
It was not difficult to machine but, was really a work of patience!

I started machining 45° on both end and side to the largest lenght






Removing the material that  will form the bolting flange










Moved to a vise with angle adjusting feature and set it to 45° to form the flange
















More is coming on the intake

Edi


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## e.picler

Continuing the Intake Manifold

Removing thr tips on the flange


















Getting the center of runner hole for the holding holes














That was the last work of the year!!
I wish to all here, a very happy New Year.

Edi


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## e.picler

Hello People!

It has already passed several months since my last post on the PeeWe progress. Almost half year. The available time is short.

Here is some info. about the progress.


The crankshaft





Blank ready for the lathe operation





Roughing on the milling machine













Ready for the main bearing. To avoid warping, I used a bolt and  nut to fill the offset space





Now is the turn of the ends. I used the lathe fixed steady as much as possible





More to come.

Edi


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## e.picler

Some more details of the Crankshaft on the lathe.





Turning the ends





Machining the counter-weights





Checking out how it fits on the block










Before turning out the ends, what would cause to get rid of the center holes, I grinded the jornal to the final diameters





Back to the lathe for a skin pass on the FlyWheel for perfct balance





So this finish the hard part of the crankshaft.
Still needs to grind the ends.

Thanks,

Edi


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## e.picler

And here is the "All Powered Crankshaft"


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## e.picler

The Lifter Bushings and Throtle rod





With the PCV valve





Preparing the blank for the Rocker Arm

























Next was the connecting rods

Edi


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## e.picler

Preparing the blank for the connecting rods. 
This is the bottom portion of the connecting rod. I bored all the bolt holes including the small lubrication ones





Than I bolted the lower portion to the upper one. 
Ready for the profile





Finished connecting rods. I made a program on the SprutCam





The throttle lever and bracket





More to come on the bearing bushings

TKS,

Edi


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
As I do not like the process of soldering two halves of bronze for the bushings, I turn two complete bushings than machine out to the midle of the diameter so, we have two perfect halves





Machining out to the midle of the diameter
View attachment 109645





I made a kind of collet to machine the inside diameter








They come out perfectlly










Fitting test was perfect





Running freely and no play





The lifters made out of  12L14 steel





Edi


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## Brian Rupnow

Very nice work. Lovely engine.---Brian


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## stevehuckss396

Nice Job Edi! Put two bearings on the rear of the crankshaft. Spot one flush with the outside of the block and the other on the inside of the block. Make them as far apart as you can get them. That will be a great support for the flywheel encase there are any issues with the flyslug being out of balance a little. Little sucker is heavy.


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
Thanks Brian.
Steve, yes I added one more bearing. I had seen your recommendation in another thread and ordered one extra bearing for my PeeWee.













With the pistons and connecting rod installed









Everything was running smoothly than, I moved the block to the lathe for breaking in. I filled with a little excess of oil to perform the breaking in. Now I will remove the oil, Clean everything and fill with the right level of oil and run a few more minutes. I also tested the cameshaft. It was running OK and moving the lifters freely





I think that in one more month I will be able to make the first start.

Tks,

Edi


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## stevehuckss396

Looks like most of the hard stuff is done. Wont be long now.


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## e.picler

Here are some more pictures of the progress. It is not in sequence of construction.

Turned the valves





Grinding the valve stem using a adapted manual grinding o the lathe tool post










Cutting off the the rings. I used a 1mm wide cut off tool 






Test of the ring on the piston groove





I separated the rings using a cut off plier used on electronic shops










I have used Bob's method to provide the spring effect on the rings.





Tks,

Edi


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## johnmcc69

Everything is looking great Edi!

 John


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## e.picler

For the Liners lapping operation, I used a brass lapping bar





I have used a diamond paste for the final finishing. The inner surface come out very smooth









The Pistons





Milling the pocket for the connecting rod









In order to assure the hight from pin center line to the top of the piston, I used a long pin with the same size of the hole as a stopper





Edi


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## e.picler

johnmcc69 said:


> Everything is looking great Edi!
> 
> John


Thanks, John. I have learned a lot with the help of the members of this forum. 
Edi


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## e.picler

Hi to everybody!

A question/help for those that have built the PeeWee.
Did you guys face the same problem shown on the photos below? The fan is interfering with the center line of the crankshaft consequently hitting the starting shaft.
What did I do wrong? I already checked the drawings and the fan diameter is correct as well as the center line distance from crankshaft and fan shaft.










Comments, hints, explanation are appreciated.
Thanks in advance,

Edi


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## stevehuckss396

Shorten the blades.


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## stevehuckss396

It appears that the dimension from the centerline of the crankshaft and the centerline of the fan boss might be off.  The radius at the top of the timing cover and the boss for the fan should not be concentric. The fan boss should be shifted up from the cover centerline about 0.200 inches. It appears from your earlier photos that the boss did not get shifted up.

Shorten the fan blades.


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## e.picler

Thanks Steve, you are right!
My mistake, did not pay attention when drawing on the CAD.
I will make another Timing Cover. I think shortening the fan blades will affect the air flow on the radiator jeopardizing the cooling of the engine.

TKS,
Edi


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## stevehuckss396

it won't matter much. just shorten the blades.


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## michael-au

You could make the fan blades shorter and also change to 5 blades, that’s what I did


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## stevehuckss396

or more


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## bob shutt

Earlier picture showed sleeve being honed out of block. I would do after shrink fit. It you match sleeve and piston home lap to a couple tenths you will not need rings. Mine has been running since 2008 with out rings


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## e.picler

Hi!
Bob, thanks for the tip. I will try that on the next project.

A very nice fan on your Demon Steve. It must push a great amount of air thru the radiator.

Michael, did you make the same mistake as did on the timing cover? Thanks for the recommendation. 

I decided to make another Timing Cover. Already prepared the material.

Edi


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## michael-au

e.picler said:


> Hi!
> Bob, thanks for the tip. I will try that on the next project.
> 
> A very nice fan on your Demon Steve. It must push a great amount of air thru the radiator.
> 
> Michael, did you make the same mistake as did on the timing cover? Thanks for the recommendation.
> 
> I decided to make another Timing Cover. Already prepared the material.
> 
> Edi



No, I just made the fan to big, it was one left over from the silver bullet, but it gave me the same problem, so I made a 5 blade fan with a smaller diameter


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## e.picler

Hi!
The new Timing Cover is finished.

The one on the left is the correct one. I will sand blast to give it a cast appearance and eliminate the marks of the tool. I’m thinking to do the same on the Block and Heads.






Clearly, you can see the difference on the position of the hub (5mm). Lack of attention when drawing on the CAD (Fusion 360





Edi


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## michael-au

Looks good  Edi


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## e.picler

I have sand blasted the timing cover and assembled on the block to check if it is OK now.















Yes, it is OK the hub was shifted 5mm (.2inch) to the up side





Edi


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## johnmcc69

Perfect Edi! The sandblasted finish looks great!

 John


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## e.picler

Thanks John!
I liked how the sandblast finishing come out.

As I said before I plan to sandblast the block and the sides of the heads.

Edi


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
Need help
I could not find information on the plans how to time the camshaft with the crankshaft. I tried to do it on my way with my limited knowledge but it did not work.
Could someone help giving me some hints/tips on how to time the camshaft?

Thanks,
Edi


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## Cogsy

Steve Huck did a nice write-up on setting the cam. You can find it here LINK


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## e.picler

Hi Cogsy!
Thank you I already printed ithe instructions and will use that this weekend.

Edi


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## e.picler

Hello to all!

Bad news.

The little beast refuses to start. It just showed some puffs and nothing else.

I checked the camshaft timing several times and showed to be correct. I also checked and rechecked the position of the rotor on the distributor. Nothing wrong here.

Reading the tips from Bob Shores he states that low compression causes difficult to start.

I did the test filling the vacuum on the tip of the finger when the piston is moving down (Bob’s tip) and did not like what I found.


I totally dismantled the engine and decided to re-lap the liners per Bob's method as well as making new pistons and rings. I will leave the pistons a little tighter then the plans (DWG calls for 0.001 to 0.0015 clearance Steve version) Bob says “snug” fit (but uses cast iron on the piston), I am using aluminum.

As a prevention action, I will also re-lap the valves. I could not find anything else wrong.


Then cross the fingers.


Today I hope to finish the new pistons. Liners are already re-lappad.


Tks,


Edi


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## stevehuckss396

How fast are you spinning the engine over? Are you using a drill or a RC starter?


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## e.picler

Hi Steve!
I'm using a battery driller machine. I think it spins little over 2500 rpm.

As planned I was able to finish the Pistons.

Does someone have any trick or tip for installing the rings on the pistons without breaking too many nor scratching the surface of the pistons?

Tomorrow I will touch the cylinder heads re-lapping the valves on its seats.

Tks,
Edi


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## josodl1953

Hi Edi,
Did you leak-test  your valves before assembly? To do so you  may need to make a test cover, see my thread on the Edwards radial 5. Also, did you check your piston rings on roundness?  Place them  in the liner , there should be no light between the ring and  the  cylinder surface.

Jos


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## e.picler

Hi Jos!
Thanks for your recommendations. I took a look on your Eduard Radial but did not find that. What page is that?

Tks,
Edi


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## Mago

In the assembled engine take out all the plugs .
Turn the engine till one piston is half way up the cylinder.

Part fill the cylinder with engine oil and turn the engine till the piston refuses to move. 
 If the piston goes to TDC then you have leaks. Escaping oil will give you a clue as to the culprit.
You may find the head seal is defective, try a Teflon gasket.
Repeat for all cylinders.

Best of luck.

Mago


----------



## josodl1953

Hi Edi,
It is not Eduard, it is Edwards Radial 5, but somehow I could not find the post of the leaktest. I give you the pictures.




Pressure feed is via an adapted glowplug with a piece of tubing soldered on.




Pipes  connected to in- and exhaust  ende in a jar of water.  If there are bubbles when pressure is applied, then there is a leak. Did you lap the valves? I had to use copper polish  to get them  leak-free.


----------



## e.picler

Hi to all!

Mago, thanks for your advises. I will use the oil test after installing the new Pistons and Rings.

I already finished the new pistons. Tonight I will make the new rings.

I also gave a very light skin pass on the top of cylinders banks to assure its flatness.

Will make new gaskets. I’m using Teflon


HELP
- Any tips or recommendation on how to install the rings on the piston without deforming or breaking them as well as not scratching the piston?

- How much oil should I fill on the oil pan? I think I over filled the first time


Tks,

Edi


----------



## e.picler

Hi Jos!

OK. A picture is worth of a thousand words! I got it. Very clever test. I will use this method.

Yes, I lapped the valves using Clover Leaf Fine grinding paste. I also re-lap them last night.


Thanks for your help


Tks,

Edi


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## e.picler

Hello guys!
Tomorrow I will have the rings finished. I have purchased a circular saw with 0.2mm (.0078in) thickness to split the rings.
I will spring the rings using Bob's method 
_*"To spring the ring, the circularity must be altered, certainly not anywhere near the gap but at it's natural flexure point, which is directly opposite the gap. To do this, lay the ring on a flat, powerful magnet. Place a square steel bar in the gap. Arrange the ring so that the area opposite the gap is off the magnet. The magnet will securely hold the ring and bar and also act as a heat sink. Use a small Butane torch to heat the area directly opposite the gap to a dull red color*."_

HELP
- Any tips or recommendation on how to install the rings on the piston without deforming or breaking them as well as not scratching the piston?

For those that built the PeeWee
- How much oil should I fill in the oil pan? I think I overfilled the first time

Edi


----------



## Brian Rupnow

When I installed cast iron rings on my last engine build I coated the rings and the pistons with #30 motor oil and very carefully worked one side of the ring down over the side of the piston by just the thickness of the ring, then very slowly and carefully worked the rest of the ring down to the same depth. After the ring was in that state I worked one end of the ring down until it was in the ring groove , then worked the rest of the ring down until it was totally in the ring groove. I put the second ring on from the other end of the piston, using the same method. It really helps if you hold your breath, clench your butt cheeks, and mutter a prayer to whichever god you are currently involved with.


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## stevehuckss396

Edi! Check into the George Trimble method. If you do what Bob says it will most likely cause a flat spot at the point where the ring is heated. Then when the ring is installed it will leave a gap in that spot. Rind will not touch the wall in that spot. George's method will show how to make a fixture to spread the gap but avoid the flat spot.


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## WOB

stevehuckss396 said:


> Edi! Check into the George Trimble method. If you do what Bob says it will most likely cause a flat spot at the point where the ring is heated. Then when the ring is installed it will leave a gap in that spot. Rind will not touch the wall in that spot. George's method will show how to make a fixture to spread the gap but avoid the flat spot.



 Exactly right!  You do not alter the "circularity" of the ring.  To do so is fatal to the ring's seal against the cylinder wall.   The Trimble method works perfectly and if you do it properly you will be rewarded with a near perfect light tight seal before the engine is started for the first time.

WOB


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
I'm in dought about the correct firing order of the PeeWee.
Is it 1-3-4-2  or   1-3-2-4?
I found the two information on Bob's drawing page 13 Rev 3.
I first set to 1-3-2-4 and was showing puffs only on the left bank which is cylinders 1 and 3 then I set to 1-3-4-2 and it started showing puffs also on cylinders 2 and 4.

I got confused

Thanks,

Edi


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## Cogsy

I'm pretty sure it's 1-3-4-2 from what I understand.


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## gadabout

Edi, when I put my rings on I wrap a piece of brass shim stock (.004")around the piston with the ends  just over lapping and slide the ring over the shim with ring gap opposite the shim overlap and then slide it all down the piston to the ring gap and let the ring slide into the groove . Works for me on the bottom rings nicely as you don't scratch the piston coming up from the bottom . Top ring I just roll into the top groove.

Mark


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## stevehuckss396

1-3-2-4

If you built it using my drawings the above firing order is correct. It's on the sheet with the cam cutting table.


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## stackerjack

Brian Rupnow said:


> When I installed cast iron rings on my last engine build I coated the rings and the pistons with #30 motor oil and very carefully worked one side of the ring down over the side of the piston by just the thickness of the ring, then very slowly and carefully worked the rest of the ring down to the same depth. After the ring was in that state I worked one end of the ring down until it was in the ring groove , then worked the rest of the ring down until it was totally in the ring groove. I put the second ring on from the other end of the piston, using the same method. It really helps if you hold your breath, clench your butt cheeks, and mutter a prayer to whichever god you are currently involved with.



I used to have a motor bike where the bottom of the cylinder bore had a chamfer on it. As you lowered the cylinder onto the piston, the chamfer compressed the rings to exactly the correct amount. I wonder why all engines aren't like this.
Jack


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## John Antliff

Yes this how in full sized steam locomotives, the steam piston valves are constructed with a taper at the end to facilitate fitting the piston complete with rings into the bore.  If I remember rightly it would be about 30 degrees inclusive i.e. 15 degrees of actual chamfer.  The bores of the piston valves could be resized several times up to the point of where the chamfer dissappears.  For IC engines a ring compressor should be used which in essence is a strap of thin shim material wrapped around the ring, loose enough to be left behind as the piston is pushed into the bore but tight enough to ensure that the ring(s) are fully in their grooves during the push.


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## stackerjack

Sorry to intrude on this thread, but could someone please tell me how to start a new thread. All efforts so far have failed.
Thank you
Jack


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## Cogsy

stackerjack said:


> Sorry to intrude on this thread, but could someone please tell me how to start a new thread. All efforts so far have failed.
> Thank you
> Jack



Navigate to the sub-forum you want to post in (Questions, Showing Them, etc.) and you will see a list of threads in that sub-forum. At the top of page (just under the banner) and also at the bottom of the page are red buttons marked 'Post New Thread'. Click on one of those and you'll be on your way.


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## stackerjack

Cogsy said:


> Navigate to the sub-forum you want to post in (Questions, Showing Them, etc.) and you will see a list of threads in that sub-forum. At the top of page (just under the banner) and also at the bottom of the page are red buttons marked 'Post New Thread'. Click on one of those and you'll be on your way.


Thanks Cogsy, I got there in the end.


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## e.picler

Hello guys!

After many attempts to start the PeeWee, I gave up and decided to tear it apart for a complete checking of the components.

I did not find anything wrong.

However, I was not getting good compression with the Cast Iron rings. Based on my experience with the Tiny Inline 4 that I used Viton O'ring, I decided to test it on the PeeWee.



Sheers, I got the little beast getting to life.


I added one O'ring on the top of the piston and kept the Cast Iron ring on the bottom.




Take a look of the first start after insalling the O'ring on the Piston


Second run


Many adjusts/tuning to be done, but at least it showed that it can run

Thanks,
Edi


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## e.picler

I found that it runs better with the distributor advanced about 10 degrees.
It is still not responding to the throttle, maybe some modifications on the carburetor will be necessary.

Any hints or suggestions? Will be much appreciated.


Thanks,


Edi


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## stevehuckss396

My ignition is set at 38 degrees advanced. Try giving it some more advance. Usually if it stalls giving throttle it is lean.


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## e.picler

Hello people!
I touched the PeeWee this evening again.
I advanced the distributor to around 35 degrees and it started to respond to the throttle but not good enough (thanks Steve).
It is now running for a longer time but not much and no low idle.
What is the normal idle RPM for the PeeWee? For those that have built it.

Edi


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## stevehuckss396

Edi

you will probably need to get a few hours of running on the engine to loosen it up before you get the low idle. with rubber rings the friction my be higher than a cast ring and effect the idle. you will just need to be patient and see what happens.


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## awake

stevehuckss396 said:


> Edi! Check into the George Trimble method. If you do what Bob says it will most likely cause a flat spot at the point where the ring is heated. Then when the ring is installed it will leave a gap in that spot. Rind will not touch the wall in that spot. George's method will show how to make a fixture to spread the gap but avoid the flat spot.



Can anyone point me to where I can read about the George Trimble method? Is it a thread in this forum, or a book, or ??

Many thanks!


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## stevehuckss396

Strictly I. C. Magazine

http://www.strictlyic.com/

*DESIGN & FABRICATION OF PISTON RINGS*,
by the late George Trimble.
         The EPITOME of miniature engine ring manufacture.
                        Issues #  7,8 & 9 …    $8.00 ea. ….. TOTAL: $24.00


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## awake

Thank you!


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## e.picler

Hi Steve!
You are absolutely right. It is getting more stable running every day. It already showed some idle.
Tomorrow I will post the new video.

I just found today that there is some problem with the water channels, it seems to be clogged. I will need to remove the heads to understand what is going on.

Edi


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## sition

Hi Edi！
I suggest you put the O-ring in the second ring, so that the O-ring can get enough lubrication, reduce friction and improve service life.


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## Cogsy

It's sounding great in the first videos already Edi. Congrats on a runner (and I'm looking forward to move videos).


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## awake

I need to apologize - I jumped in with an off-tangent question, and totally neglected to congratulate Edi on the excellent work. As an IC-model-engine-maker-wannabe (IMEMW??), I am inspired by the incredible work that goes into an engine like this. Thanks, Edi, for providing the documentation on your build - I'm nowhere near trying to tackle something like this, but reading through the progression of a build like this is so helpful in gaining a sense of the challenges and trouble-shooting that goes into a build.

Thanks, Edi!


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## e.picler

That's OK Awake. Don't mind!
Thanks for the words, I'm still learning with the great people here.

Edi


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## e.picler

Hi!
I'm getting water on the oil pan and I can't find where it is leaking. Scratching my head!!!!!
I already sealed the OD of the liners to the wall of the block holes. 

Any ideas where it could be leaking water into the block/oil pan?

Thanks,
Edi


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## stevehuckss396

head gaskets?

pull the oilpan and spin the pump with a drill medium slow and see if a leak presents itself.


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## e.picler

Hi Steve!
I did that. I installed the heads back on the block, without the pistons and crankshaft.
I used a Dremel to spin the pump shaft. I found that the water is leaking in the wall of the camshaft tunnel through the porosity of the casting. 
Now, to not scrap the block, I got find a way to fix it. Maybe a kind of paste glue or....

Thanks Steve.

Edi


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## john futter

Thourouly dry your casting in the oven
Apply loctite 290 (used to be called superwick in) apply pressure /vacuum depending on which is easier to drive the 290 into the casting voids. This will last a lifetime unless you get acetone near it


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## e.picler

Hi John!
Thank you for the suggestion. 
I have tested again after using industrial Epoxy and did not work.
I will follow Steve's suggestion to rebore the cam tunnel and press a tube with Loctite and then ream the bore back to the final bearing diameter (16mm).

PS. I just received the brass materials for the Radiator

Thanks,
Edi


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
Reworking the block trying to fix the water liking ito the oil pan do to the porosity of the casting.
Reboring the tunnel






Turning the tube/bushing I used 0,02mm interference 





Pressed the bushing into the rebored tunnel 





Ready to redrilling all the holes











I hope it fixes the water liking

Edi


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## e.picler

Hello to all!

I finally could test if the water leaking into the oil pan did work.

Yes, it worked with the jacket installed on the camshaft tunnel.
I have modified the way the water is transferred to the right block bank. Please see the photos bellow.





























Worked greatly 

Edi


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## e.picler

Hi! Here is a video after fixing the water leaking to the oil pan.


Adjusting the carb. to respond to throtle


Next step is to build the radiator.

Edi


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## e.picler

Hi again!
I had a very hard time to make the PeeWee run properly. It insisted of running only with 3 cylinders. The cylinder number 4 was not firing.
I have checked the timing several times in order to make sure it was correct.









I also checked the point of distributor. Everything was correct. So, I scratched my head to find what was causing the cylinder 4 not fire (valves was OK too).


By chance I discovery two different information on the plans I received form Dirk regarding the position of the distributor rotor in relation to the number 1 cylinder on the distributor cap.

This one says to align on the tail of the rotor contact.





This one says to align on the leading edge of the rotor contact.





First I have set to the tail of the rotor contact (first photo). That was the problem.
After I have set acording to the second photo, (leading edge), the engine started to run fine

Many, many hours to find it out.

Thanks,

Edi


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## awake

Beautiful!

The shaft driven by the rubber belt (o-ring) - that is driving the water pump, correct? Is it driving anything else?


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## e.picler

Thanks, Awake!
It will also drive the radiator fan that is not installed on the videos.

Edi


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## awake

Ah, of course! That makes perfect sense.


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## e.picler

Hello!
Here are some information on the radiator build.
Preparing the material for the top and botton tanks






Milling operations done





The fins were drilled using the fixture developed by Steve Hucks (forgot to take pictures)





Machining the recess for the side plate (could be done on the fixture drilling setup but I forgot and to do that)





Fixture for the assembly and soldering the fins on the tubes and top/botton plates




















The side plates. The plans calls for brass sheet but I decided to machine it because I do not have a bending device





Thanks,

Edi


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## e.picler

Continuing with the radiator.

After soldering all the parts on the radiator, I discovered a soldering paste Which produces a lot more clean and nice looking results than the regular soldering wire. I use it on the exaust tubes.
Know how for the future projects.











Next I worked on the exaust sistem










Here are two videos of the Pee Wee almost finished. It is still missing the On/Off ignition switch and the carburator Air Cleaner


Another angle


Thanks,

Edi


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## bengt-olausson

Hi Edi, congrats to a very nice looking and running engine.
I,m impressed.
Bengt


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## johnmcc69

Top notch work Edi! The radiator turned out very well!

 John


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## awake

Spectacular - all of it, but that radiator in particular Leaves me speechless!


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## Cogsy

Just beautiful Edi!


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## e.picler

Hi!
Bengt, John, Awake and Cogsy, thank you very much for your kind words.
Now I'm working on the Air Cleaner. As I finish, I will post the final finished project video.

Thanks,
Edi


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## propclock

Beautiful! I read from the beginning, very informative! 
Just my 1.414 cents worth, Make your distributor cap out Clear 
lexan or Plexiglas and polish. There are many ways for sparks 
to go the wrong way in a small distributor. Being able to see the 
sparks jump the gap is VERY informative. Especially if you
have adjustable timing.  Also people like to see the sparks jump.
Also it is a good idea to put a hole in the distributor somewhere to vent the ozone .
It will corrode badly in there if there is no vent. 
Learned this the hard way. Hall sensor turned into crud/dust. 
Again beautiful build.


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## e.picler

Hello Propclock!

Thank you for the kind words.
Good suggestion the clear distributor cap, I might make one just to see the sparks inside, like you said.
There is a hole on the distributor body. I did that to have access to the screw that holds the rotor on the axis. I did not know about the ozone. Thanks for the tip.

I am now making the air cleaner. The body is already finished. The plans does not have drawings for that. I just machined that from the top of my head.














I think today I will have some Available hours to make the air cleaner cover.

Thanks,

Edi


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## awake

What are you planning to use as a filter? Given the beautiful work on the radiator, maybe you would want to machine up a miniature air filter ... ?


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## e.picler

Hi, Awake!
The radiator is a Steve Hucks design.
Yes, I machined a little air filter. The filter element is a regular low-density foam.
Here is a picture of how it come out





With this, the project is finished. 
I'm very pleased and happy with how it is running.
I will only touch some parts polishing them to give a nicer look.

Thank you for those that followed this project and also helped me with some hints/suggestions.
A special thanks to Steve Hucks that helped me with a 3D camshaft drawing and clearing some drawing doubts I had.

See you on the next project. It will be the V Twin from George Britnell.

Thanks, 
Edi


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## awake

I was actually meaning the filter element - I was thinking you could make a miniature one of these:


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## e.picler

Hi to all!
I need some help.
I'm facing a situation with the PeeWee I just finished. The problem is the following.
It starts very easily when it is cold however after it warms up like less than a minute of running it is very difficult to start.
Is it a normal condition for a model engine or is there some problem that I could not figure so far?

Thanks,
Edi


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## WSMkid

How long must it cool before it starts again? 
When it dies, does it turn over freely?

GJ


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## e.picler

Hi GD!
After about 30 minutes later it starts easyly again.

Yes when it dies it turns over freely.

Another information, when it is still cool the idle is fearly low and stable.



Thanks,

Edi


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## johnmcc69

Could the carb be heating up to much & & "boiling" the fuel?

 John


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## stevehuckss396

I'm with John. I think you might be having trouble with heat. Try making a 1/4 inch thick spacer from some type of plastic if you have some on hand. Had the same trouble on the V8 and the spacer worked very well


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## WSMkid

When it dies, does it bog down till it dies or just shuts off?

You wouldn’t happen to have $3000 in thermal imaging gear to observe temperature distraction would you? 

Do the intakes on these get that hot?

They make stuff called “Canned Air” if turned upside down and sprayed thing can get really cold. Would be neat play with that stuff on different components to try to find something hot. 

GJ


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## Noel Gordon

Edit, I'm a toolmaker with 60 plus years experience so I am old school. Your workmanship is something to behold and to be admired by all .Thank you for sharing..
Noel Gordon


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## bob shutt

I noticed that your gas tank is mounted above carb. I had to move mine below carb so carb pulls fuel in


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## Brian Rupnow

Edi--Youre engine is magnificent.---Brian Rupnow


----------



## e.picler

Hi to all!
Thanks Noel for your very kind words. In comparison to some fellows here, I'm an apprentice.

Also thanks for the ones that commented on the starting problem.
This evening I did a more close observation on the PeeWee running behavior. following is what I found.
- It dies due to the heating
- Yes, GD, it bogs till it dies
- After a minute running the card was not too hot (around 38C degrees) however the distributor was at 68C (is the hall sensor sensitive to heat?). I cooled down the distributor with compressed air and did not cause any positive effect on the starting.
- The cylinder 4 is not firing (the spark is OK, the valves are sealing well) I think it has something to do with the position of distributor rotor 

As the engine gets hot the water on the radiator starts coming out through the overflow tube (the pressure increases). It almost drains all the water from the radiator what contributes to the heating of the engine.

Steve, did you face a similar situation on your PeeWee?

Thanks for the help.
Edi


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## minh-thanh

e.picler !
Try replacing the battery, possibly due to low battery.


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## stevehuckss396

Hello edi. I did not have trouble with the peewee but I did with the v8.

Bob mentioned the fuel tank height. Make sure the top of the tank is even with or below the bottom of the carb. It it's not gravity will force unwanted fuel into the engine.


----------



## e.picler

Hi Steve and Bob! Thanks for the tips.
I will raise the engine (Make higher pedestals) and run a test.
But I do no understand why the cylinder 4 does not fire. As I said before de valves are sealing well and there is a good spark.

Thanks,
Edi


----------



## minh-thanh

e.picler said:


> - After a minute running the card was not too hot (around 38C degrees) however the distributor was at 68C (is the hall sensor sensitive to heat?).
> 
> Edi


Can you tell me what kind of hall sensor you use?
According to my memory :There are two types of hall sensors with operating temperatures  from - 40 -> 85 degrees C and -40 -> 150 degrees C


----------



## dnalot

At 176 degrees F or 80 C. magnets lose their magnetism. It is permanent if held at high temp for any period of time. So yes a hall sensor is sensitive to heat. 

Mark T


----------



## stevehuckss396

If you are running it long enough to have coolant coming out of the overflow tube you are over heating the engine. That can cause all the problems that have been discussed. It can also cause tolerances in fitment between parts and start to seize the engine. You should never let the engine go hotter than about 190. With no coolant in the heads that temp can be reached in just a few minutes from dead cold.


----------



## e.picler

Hi,
Minh-thanh 
The hall sensor is 04E temp. range is 40C to 85C

Steve
The engine reaches high temp really fast. Before a minute of running the coolant starts coming out of the overflow tube. Remember, the coolant does not circulate on the head. It only goes around the liners and comes out on the head.

Mark,
Thanks for the information, I did not know the magnetics loses the magnetism at this temperature

Thank you Brian.

Edi


----------



## Rocket Man

stevehuckss396 said:


> I'm with John. I think you might be having trouble with heat. Try making a 1/4 inch thick spacer from some type of plastic if you have some on hand. Had the same trouble on the V8 and the spacer worked very well



Instead of plastic spacer I would make brass or aluminum spacer with cooling water holes drilled in it.  Connect cooling water to spacer then run engine to see if that fixes the problem.  If cooling does not solve the problem then you know carburetor is not getting too hot so spacer can be removed.   Put a meter or tester on ignition system to see if is stops working when engine stops.  I have new model airplane engines that lock up after running 1 minute but after engine stops I can spin propeller by hand.   Apparently it only takes a very small temperature change for 400 degrees to 410 to lock up the model airplane engine.  Factory model airplane fuel is 18% oil not enough oil for a new engine so I add oil to get 30% then engine runs good for 6 months until it is broke in then I use 25% oil in fuel.  I assume your engine is 4 cycle not 2 cycle you can do a quick easy experiment run your engine on 2 cycle fuel to see if that prevents engine from stopping.   Soon as you learn the problem then you can work on fixing it.  If you can add cooling ports to the head that will help if engine is getting too hot.   Car engine heads are the hottest part of the engine that is why engine cooling system thermostat never turns off cooling to the heads.  Your engine look very nice & sounds good too I hope you can solve the problem.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Check your cooling system edi. You should be able to run 4 or 5 minutes from dead cold. Maybe water flow has been restricted.

Water flowing to fast is also a problem.  Is the pump as drawn or did you modify it.

Coolant is also a problem. Do not add coolant to your system. Try waterwetter.


----------



## e.picler

Thank you Rocket Man, your tips are very clever.

Steve
I did not modify the pump. It is exactly according to the drawing.
Yes, I'm using a radiator coolant. I will try pure water.

Edi


----------



## ozzie46

stevehuckss396 said:


> Check your cooling system edi. You should be able to run 4 or 5 minutes from dead cold. Maybe water flow has been restricted.
> 
> Water flowing to fast is also a problem.  Is the pump as drawn or did you modify it.
> 
> Coolant is also a problem. Do not add coolant to your system. Try waterwetter.




 What is wrong with using antifreeze ? I use it in my Mastiff opposed 4 cyl engine as a rust inhibitor fro the cast iron cyl liners and it will run for 30 min or till it runs out of fuel with no problem.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Antifreeze adds surface tension that can hinder the absorption of heat. The water wetter breaks the surface tension and can aid cooling. It also contains the anti corrosion and lubricants without the glycol


----------



## ozzie46

stevehuckss396 said:


> Antifreeze adds surface tension that can hinder the absorption of heat. The water wetter breaks the surface tension and can aid cooling. It also contains the anti corrosion and lubricants without the glycol




Thanks Steve, do auto stores carry the water wetter or where can one get some.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Any auto parts store should have it.


*WaterWetter* is a unique wetting agent for cooling systems which reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30 degrees Farenheit. This liquid product can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain *water* for racing engines, which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze.


----------

