# Brian Rupnow build--Hit and Miss air/steam engine



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 11, 2009)

This might end up being a long thread. I started it over on the "Break Room" under the heading "Hit and Miss Steam Engine???"
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5150.0
Then drew up mechanical details and posted them in the download section.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl

And today I started whittling out parts.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 11, 2009)

Beginning of cylinder and crankcase---


----------



## Maryak (Jun 11, 2009)

Brian,

Welcome back to swarf makers inc. :bow: ;D

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks Maryak---Here we have the crankcase roughed out on the bandsaw, (the radiused was put in with a 3/8" drill thru) ---and a bit of blatant advertising.


----------



## ozzie46 (Jun 11, 2009)

Welcome back to chip making. Looking forward to the build. I enjoyed your "Beam Engine" build a very much.


Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 11, 2009)

I didn't plan on doing this untill fall.---But---sadly, there is absolutely no engineering work available to fill up my days. This damned worldwide recession has everybody terrified to spend any money on new machine development. My hotrod (my other hobby) is finished, so there is really nothing to do on it. I will thrash away at this untill some real work comes along to take up my time. (Sure am glad I've got a rich wife!!!)


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 12, 2009)

So today I undertook the first step in actually machining the crankcase. I used a 5/8" diameter 4 flute end mill and milled to the lines that were scribed when I layed the crankcase out. I snuck up on the lines, then measured with my vernier caliper when I got real close to the line, so as not to cut beyond the line.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 12, 2009)

Son of a gun! This thing is small. (but bigger bore and stroke than Elmers engines.) Thats the one thing about designing in 3D--Its hard to get a "feel" for how big or small something is from just the 3D cad model. I know that in my "full size" machines that I design, I have a "full size" model of a man which I insert into the assembly model so my customers can get a sense of "how big" the finished machine will be.


----------



## cfellows (Jun 12, 2009)

Good start, there, Brian. I like the looks of the drawings in the background, too!

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

Thanks Chuck. Your little engine has inspired a lot of great builds. I know I have seen builds by you, Putputman, Superfast, and Brent, and probably there are others that I haven't seen. I hope that my "standard of workmanship" can come close to those who have gone before me. Hopefully with the plans I have done up and put in the download section, there will now be even more now. Again, my thanks for being the originator of this great engine.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

Here we are putting the slot in the center of the crankcase. I got this far and realized that A--I don't have a 5/16" end mill to get the 0.156 rad called for on my drawing, and that B--I had a 3/8" end mill but it was too short. (I've had that problems in other areas as well, but thats another story---). So--as usual, I cheated. I used my 3/8" end mill (which ends up giving me a .188 rad instead and I slid a 0.34" long spacer into the collet before I put the endmill into it, to make the endmill long enough from the collet shoulder to the end of the endmill. This is probably a horribly dangerous and inadviseable thing to do. but it solved the problem, and it worked well.


----------



## vlmarshall (Jun 13, 2009)

Nice start! One day I'll build a hit-n-miss...



			
				Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> ...I know that in my "full size" machines that I design, I have a "full size" model of a man which I insert into the assembly model so my customers can get a sense of "how big" the finished machine will be.



I guess that's the little guy on the back of your business card?


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

vlmarshall  said:
			
		

> Nice start! One day I'll build a hit-n-miss...
> 
> I guess that's the little guy on the back of your business card?



Yep---Thats Elvis!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

Boring hole in crankcase for the cylinder---


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

enough work for this morning--


----------



## vlmarshall (Jun 13, 2009)

It's really starting to look like an engine, don't stop now! :big: What's wrong with the center hole on your boring head?

Your drawings look great, the fact thay you do this stuff professionally really shows. :bow:


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

vlmarshall  said:
			
		

> It's really starting to look like an engine, don't stop now! :big: What's wrong with the center hole on your boring head?
> 
> Your drawings look great, the fact thay you do this stuff professionally really shows. :bow:



I don't understand what you mean about the center hole on the boring head.


----------



## vlmarshall (Jun 13, 2009)

Oh, just that you weren't using it, and have the boring head cranked out a good distance. Is there an operational reason for it? I'm guessing that, like some heads I've seen, the center hole is a different size.

Just an offhand question, really, I'm always looking to learn new things.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

Okay, a perfectly good and logical question. The last time I used that boring tool was to bore a much larger hole. This time I grabbed it, put it in the collet, and screwed it in untill it fit the 3/4" clearance hole that I had drilled in the part. I never even thought about using the center hole, -----but put that one down to a "Seniors moment".


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

This evening I've been making the piston. I have no idea whether I'm going about this correctly or not, but its working, so it must be okay. I have a peice of 1" brass plate about 4" square, so first I cut a 1" wide strip off the side, center drilled the ends, set it up between centers and turned it to 0.75" dia. (You can't see it but there is a center gripped in the 3 jaw chuck.)


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

This is something I forgot to show in my detail drawing.--A couple of grooves to hold lubricating oil, about 0.015 deep by 45 degrees on the cylinder. (in this picture I have parted the square end off and clamped the round part in the 3 jaw chuck.)


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

Now here is the part I like--Since I still had the square shank left on one end after parting off, that gave me something to hold in my milling vice. I set it up in the vice and milled the slot and it was nice and secure.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 13, 2009)

So here we are, as far as I'm going tonight. All that remains to be done is put in the 0.125 wrist pin hole and part it off to length.


----------



## lathe nut (Jun 14, 2009)

Brian, now I will have to up my life expectancy to 189 years just to keep up with your project that I would like to do, been doing copy and paste, thanks again for sharing your knowledge and skills, that is going to a cute engine, thanks again, Lathe Nut


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 14, 2009)

Now we have a finished piston. This is a complete reversal of the standard "Brass cylinder and aluminum piston". What was my reason for doing it this way?---Only that I had brass and aluminum in stock to build it this way, and didn't want to spend money to buy more material. From an engineering viewpoint, probably its better the other way, because an aluminum piston weighs much less, therefore would have much lower reciprocating inertial force, but for these little demonstration engines, I doubt it makes any difference.


----------



## RobWilson (Jun 14, 2009)

That engine is coming along quick Brian , nice work ;D
Regards Rob


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 14, 2009)

I just found a mistake on the crankcase drawing. (Yeah, I do make mistakes!) The hole centers for the bearing blocks should be 0.588 not 0.538 as previously posted. This drawing is updated---I will fix the download later .---Brian





View attachment CRANKCASE.PDF


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jun 14, 2009)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> (You can't see it but there is a center gripped in the 3 jaw chuck.)



Hi Brian,

Excuse my question...very little experience...but what is turning the part? Is there a pin or something on the end of the part that the chuck jaw is against?

Thanks.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 14, 2009)

And for this afternoons offering---a pair of brass bearings. It was while drilling and tapping the crancase for these that I discovered the mistake in the previous post. At least I got lucky and discovered the error in the hole spacing on the crankcase BEFORE I drilled and tapped it!!! Glad I didn't drill and tap the crankcase first and THEN go to make the bearing blocks.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 14, 2009)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Hi Brian,
> 
> Excuse my question...very little experience...but what is turning the part? Is there a pin or something on the end of the part that the chuck jaw is against?
> 
> Thanks.


Zee--I wondered if anybody would pick up on that!!! Yes, when I centerdrilled the end which sets closest to the chuck I put a 0.125 hole in one corner and stuck a peice of 1/8" x 1.5" stl. rod in it. One of the chuck jaws riding against the side of the pin turned the part. That is my secret trick for avoiding having to change to and use my 4 jaw chuck.)


----------



## kvom (Jun 14, 2009)

Did you deburr the edges of the crankcase? They look awfully sharp to me.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 14, 2009)

kvom  said:
			
		

> Did you deburr the edges of the crankcase? They look awfully sharp to me.



No, I haven't deburred anything yet. All my tooling is well used (read that as dull to really dull), and it pulls a horrible burr on aluminum. When I get a peice off the mill, I set it up in my workbench vice and flat-file all the offending burrs so that they won't give a false reading in a further set-up, but the sharp corners will remain untill I get to the "cosmetic" stage of the project. They are not really as sharp as they appear in the picture--not to the point where they would cut my hand. I will eventualy use some medium emery cloth to "break" all the sharp edges, prior to polishing.


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jun 14, 2009)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> That is my secret trick for avoiding having to change to and use my 4 jaw chuck.)



Secret!? You have a secret?!
No fair.
Isn't there a rule about that? th_rulze
Shouldn't there be a rule about that?

Thanks Brian.


----------



## ariz (Jun 15, 2009)

another great work of Brian here!

I visited your site... it is really sad that this recession had left you without works to do... but at least we have this well documented engine here to see 

good luck for everything

ariz


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

I am going to try something new and rather terrifying---machining a crankshaft from solid. I have these two instruction sheets prepared by Chuck Fellows, and since this is a relatively simple crankshaft, I will try it and see what happens.


----------



## mklotz (Jun 15, 2009)

Brian,

This engine is going to be one of my summer projects. I had intended to integrate the Fellows and Superfast plans but, after seeing your fine work, I'll be using your plans.

I printed some of the plans out last night and they are truly professional. Like you, I prefer to have a complete picture of what I'm going to build before I start and your plans are very comprehensive.

My thanks (and a karma) for your hard work and your willingness to share so freely.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

Marv---For someone like myself to get a karma point from a man as knowledgeable as you are about all things mathematical, I consider it a great honour. Thank you. (And thank you kindly for the karma point!!!)---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

So---This afternoon was a brand new learning experience for me. After reading as much as I could from those who have boldly gone before me, I set out to machine a one peice crankshaft. I followed Chuck's guide drawings, and layed the crankshaft out on a peice of 3/8" x 1" cold rolled steel barstock, then drilled and sawed out the center. The 3 x's are there so that I take all of my measurements from the same side of the bar during layout.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

I then made the long sawcuts, and then layed out and center drilled the ends of the bar, using my mill.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

Then it was over to the lathe and mount the bar between centers to turn the connecting rod journal. If you look at the end closest to the chuck, you can see that I have a peice of 5/8" round stock with a 30 degree taper turned on the end of it to become my "center" in the chuck. I was able to slide the end of the bar between 2 of the jaws, and that was what actually made the part turn. I found it VERY SCARY to cut that journal with the cut off tool stuck out about a mile as shown in the picture.---and Oh, Yeah---I made the crankshaft 1" longer than I needed so that I could cut off the ends with the center drill holes in them and still end up with the finished crankshaft the correct length.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

And this is what it looked like before I set up to turn the ends. The 1/4" bolt has a nut and washer on the far side, and is tightened down to keep the slot in the center from collapsing when I turn between centers.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

Here we are turning the first end to finished diameter. See---I do own a lathe dog!!! Of course, once the first end was finished I turned the part 180 degrees and finished the other end the same way.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

The finished one peice crankshaft---


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 15, 2009)

And here is the crankshaft in its new home.


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jun 15, 2009)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> See---I do own a lathe dog!!!



 Rof}

Thanks. That was good.


----------



## ozzie46 (Jun 16, 2009)

Very informative Brian. Keep up the good work

 Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 16, 2009)

This afternoon I built the connecting rod and cap. --Here is a good tip---If you start with a peice of 1" x 1/4" brass bar, you can use a 3/8" endmill to plunge cut at the center of the 4 radii and then go ahead and cut slots which will form the corner radii at each end and remove most of the unwanted material.--there will be enough brass left between the cutter and the vice jaws that the cutter doesn't hit them. I modified the con rod drawing a little bit, so will post a new drawing here and update the download section later.









View attachment CONNECTING ROD.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 16, 2009)

This is the way the connecting rod turned out. I can't put the hole for the crankshaft in yet, because I am waiting for my local nut and bolt store to get the #5-40 socket head capscrew in that I odered last week. The cap has to be bolted to the rod before the bore is put in, because half the bore is in the cap and half in the rod.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 16, 2009)

And here we have the con rod, cap, and piston. For those who might have been wondering, I'm going to use a peice of 1/8" cold rolled steel round rod for a wrist pin, and I will use a bit of #648 Loctite to keep the pin positioned in the piston.


----------



## kustomkb (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice work Brian!

Back with a bang eh?


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 16, 2009)

kustomkb  said:
			
		

> Nice work Brian!
> 
> Back with a bang eh?



Well, I'm back anyways. No real work to do, so might as well play in the toyshop. Its been long enough since my 15 month continuous build that I seem to be over the burnout.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 17, 2009)

Nothing too exciting this morning, but still I spent 4 hours hogging this steel flywheel out of a peice of 3.25" diameter round mild steel.---Yes, I know that the plans call for 3 1/2" diameter, but this is what I could get CHEAP. I decided that aluminum flywheels just don't weigh enough to give the inertia needed for a good "hit and miss" action. I will probably make both flywheels out of steel---The second one won't be as much work, as it doesn't have an extended hub like the one I just finished. I think maybe I will paint these flywheels to keep them from rusting. Brass would have been nice, but its just too spendy.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 17, 2009)

Talk about famous last words---"The second flywheel shouldn't be as much work as the first." So there I was, merrily machining the recess in the face of the second flywheel, and making calculations as to how much more I have to take of the hub to get it to 0.75" diameter.--I dunno what happened--STUPID ATTACK MAYBE!!! Damn, that hub is starting to look kinda small. Hmmmm--maybe I should measure that. HOLY SNOT!!! 0.61 DIAMETER!!! So---There is too much work invested to scrap it and start over---Out to the garage and get out the mig welder---build the hub back up---


----------



## ozzie46 (Jun 17, 2009)

Brian;  Where 5-40 is called out on plans can a person use 4-40 instead?

 The same with 3-48, can you use 2-56 instead? If not I need to order some in along with the taps and dies.

 Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 17, 2009)

Ozzie---you can use whatever is most convenient for you. I use #5-40 because that is the thread size on a 1/8" rod.---and 10-24 is the thread size on a 3/16" rod. Use whatever you have. Otherwise you can make a career out of buying taps and dies.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 17, 2009)

Okay--We're all fixed up.--There has to be a "Greater Power" at work today---for both bad and good. If I had made that second flywheel out of brass or aluminum, I'd have had to throw it in the trash can. As it turned out, mild steel is one of the most easily welded metals that exists, and 5 minutes with the mig saved my day!!! I still have some minor holes to add and some serious polishing to do on the flywheels, but by and large they are finished. I have worked 8 hours to make 2 flywheels.---thats about $300 worth of my time---if I had any work. ;D ;D


----------



## putputman (Jun 17, 2009)

Hey Brian, been there - done that!! 

That's where your skills & talent kick in. The recovery plan.

I sure as hell with some of the people running this country had some of your skills.

Whoops, maybe I started something. :wall:


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 17, 2009)

putputman  said:
			
		

> Hey Brian, been there - done that!!
> 
> That's where your skills & talent kick in. The recovery plan.
> 
> ...



Putputman---You are aware of the parallel universe theory, right? There is the universe in which people who work every day for a living are found, and then there is the other universe where policy makers and people who run countries inhabit.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 18, 2009)

$%#@--I just broke my only #5-40 tap. Called Brafasco to order 2 new ones and they are $23.00 EACH!!!! A lot of money for something only slightly larger than a bumblebees third member.


----------



## Maryak (Jun 18, 2009)

BUGGER 












And the price of a replacement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Best Regards
Bob


----------



## mklotz (Jun 18, 2009)

Better find a new supplier. ENCO has them for US$2.95...

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=325-4769&PMPXNO=5809855&PARTPG=INLMK32

$23 is totally absurd.


----------



## cfellows (Jun 18, 2009)

I usually keep an eye on eBay for items I use (and break) a lot. I can usually find small taps in lots of 5 for under $15 including shipping. I also buy my end mills and carbide inserts from ebay.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 18, 2009)

Did I see a thread on this forum about a chemical solution to disolve taps which break off in aluminum????


----------



## ozzie46 (Jun 18, 2009)

YES. It said to use alum to dissolve it.


 Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 19, 2009)

Okay---Its update time. first of all, thanks for that link Marv---I am going to find a source of cheaper taps.--I was tapping the holes in the end of the cylinder which attaches to the crankcase when I broke the tap off in the third hole. My "fix" will be to rotate the cylinder 10 degrees and D&T 4 new holes ---nothing lost!! I got my #5-40 SHCS from the nut and bolt store, so was able to bolt the connecting rod cap into place, then drill and ream it to fit on the crankshaft. After MUCH filing and fiddling, everything rotates quite nicely, with the piston moving back and forth in the bore of the cylinder smoothly.
    I decided that I didn't want holes through the outer rim of the flywheel like my plans call for, so I just drilled and tapped a #10-24 hole in the extended hub of the "non-governor" flywheel. I have one of those hinky vices that will rotate into many strange configurations, so I put the set screw hole into the flywheel governor at an angle as shown in the picture. I still haven't undertaken any "cosmetic" work on any of the parts, so they look a bit rough.--My plan is to make all the parts, test assemble thm, then to blow it all apart for polishing.


----------



## rudydubya (Jun 19, 2009)

Looking good Brian. And a fine recovery on the flywheel. Looking forward to your finished engine and video. I love hit and miss machines, they're so... mechanical.

Rudy


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 19, 2009)

It pays to shop around. I just wnt to a different supplier of machine tools here in town and picked up 2 taps, 2#38 drills, and 10 assorted Dremel type grind stones wirh 1/8" steel shanks for the same $ as Brafasco wanted for one tap!!!!!


----------



## ozzie46 (Jun 19, 2009)

You make an engine in about the time it takes me to set up to machine one part. :big: :big: :big:  Looking good.

 Ron


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 19, 2009)

Spent today attending to a myriad of things--- I stopped at my metal suppliers and picked up enough brass to build the cylinder head and all the other tiny bits. I redrilled and tapped the cylinder, (both ends) successfully this time, and while I had things apart I spent an hour on the polishing wheel. The flywheels have all the appropriate cutouts and slots now.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 20, 2009)

This morning I built the cylinder head. the very first thing I noticed was that I had left a dimension off the drawing which locates the 0.375" reamed hole.---Since I wanted to use my 3/8" end mill to do a plunge cut to form the 0.188 rad between the two circular ends, I added in the dimensions of where that circle would be. (see red circle--that is the center of the radius).
 I cut it from a 3/8" x 1.5" peice of brass bar. Everything worked out very well. I will add the fixed up drawing to the downloads when I am all finished.


















View attachment CYLINDER HEAD.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 20, 2009)

Not too much to say about the exhaust gland, other than that is finished and it fits. I turned it from 1" round brass. then used a peice of 1/4" round cold rolled about an inch long as an alignment guide when I assembled it to the cylinder head to keep the 1/4" reamed holes lined up. I bolted it in place, still with the 0.1" thick part a full 1" in diameter. Then I scribed around it, removed it from the cylinder and milled away the excess, leaving it rectangular to match the cylinder.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 21, 2009)

This morning I built the lower and upper halves of the valve body. I didn't have any tooling that was small enough to reach into the lower valve body and turn the 45 degree angle. I didn't want to go out and buy another peice of tooling for a one time use, so I started looking through my shelves to see what else I could possibly use, and discovered a bunch of countersinks that I had very seldom used. They have an included angle of 82 degrees, not the 90 degrees called for on the drawings, but--Hey---I can turn the valve itself to match whatever the valve seat is. I turned a bit off the outer diameter of the countersink so that it would fit into the 0.438 bore with a bit of clearance, and used it to turn the angled seat in the lower valve body.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 21, 2009)

This afternoon I built the rest of the valve. I hate working on stuff this small, but the valve does work. I discovered that with the bolt circle originally called up I simply ran out of room. I had to increase the bolt circle, so there will be 2 more drawings that change to reflect this larger bolt circle in the upper and lower half of the valve. In this first picture, you can see how I cranked the compound rest around to allow me to turn an 82 degrees angle on the end of a peice of brass. I then reamed it to 0.093 and inserted the valve stem. Since the steel valve stem was inserted into a blind hole, steam build up during silver soldering tries to pop the stem out of the brass. To overcome this I clamped the brass in my mill vice and brought the chuck down to rest on top of the steel valve stem so it couldn't pop out, then I soldered it right in the vice. Of course, after the soldering was finished, I put it back into the lathe to clean it up and get silver solder off the valve face.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 21, 2009)

This is the finished valve assembly. Of course, I have to shorten the bolts so that they only come flush with the underside of the lower valve body.--And somehow I have to figure out how to put an 0.024 wide slot into the bottom of the valve stem for an e-clip. (maybe use the sharp corner of a cut off tool???) NOW I NEED SOME HELP---Even though I took great care when making the valve and the lower valve housing, it still leaks a bit of air with the valve closed. I seen mention of using some silicone on the valve seat (I think) in one of the other posts of people who built this engine, but I didn't see any detailed description of how to do that---can someone please jump in and tell me a bit more about that.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 21, 2009)

And here are the updated drawings, as promised, with revised bolt circles.









View attachment LOWER HALF OF VALVE ASSEMBLY.PDF


View attachment UPPER HALF VALVE BODY.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 23, 2009)

I decided to make the "SOLDERED ASSEMBLY OF BACKING PLATE" from a single peice of brass. I milled out the shape, and then had to figure out how to put the 1/16" slot in it. I had never used a slitting saw before, so this gave me a chance to buy some new tooling. (Which is always good!!!) I bought a 1/6" x 2" diameter slitting saw and arbor, and after some head scratching, decided to set it up as shown. The operation worked perfectly, and I also drilled the two 1/16" diameter holes in the same set-up.


----------



## kvom (Jun 23, 2009)

That was a good option. I imagiune that trying to position those bits accurately for SS would be a problem. You could also have milled the slots with a 1/16" endmill, but the slitting saw is a good thing to have and is more robust than those tinu enmills.

I think I would have drilled the holes before slitting.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 23, 2009)

I just finished the "CAM ACTUATOR BUSHING" and the "SLIDING CAM" . They look a bit grubby in this picture because I had coated them with oil and worked them back and forth on a peice of 1/4" rod to get them meshing smoothly. (Note to self--Clean parts BEFORE taking pictures!!!)----now I have to call my friend and see if he has a #0-80 tap and drill.


----------



## Shopguy (Jun 23, 2009)

Brian
About your valve problem. Consider making an interference angle on the valve, by which I mean the angle on the valve is 1 to 11/2 degrees less than the valve seat angle. The interference idea being to get a valve seal as narrow as possible. A very narrow seat is common practice on most internal combustion engines. You could also consider lapping the valve to the seat, now that you have a slitting saw cut a little bit if a grove in the top of the valve head, not right across but just wide enough for a screw driver. Use a fine lapping compound and a back and forth twisting motion with a screw driver to clean up and polish the seat. You are making excellent progress, enjoy seeing your work. 
Regards,
Ernie J


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks Ernie--I considered lapping the valve, ---its easy enough to do because the shank sticks out through the bottom of the valve housing. In the end I took the easy way out---since I run my engines on air, not steam, I undercut the valve face and glued on a viton o-ring. Problem solved. Its as airtight as a fish now.


----------



## Shopguy (Jun 23, 2009)

Brian 
Good fix. Glad you got it sealed up. Viton remarkable stuff,made a big improvement to carburetor float valves when introduced. 
Ernie J


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 23, 2009)

Its starting to get exciting now. I spent all morning building fiddly little brass parts, but this afternoon I decided to do some "first assembly", as I can't see my friend who MIGHT have a 0-80 tap and drill untill he gets home tonight. If I push the end of the "valve actuator lever" with a screwdriver (to simulate what the 0-80 cam screw will do) the flywheels take off like a shot, and the engine bellows like a---like a---well, kinda like a wounded duck!!! I have never built an engine before with such interesting sound effects. Hopefully, after I get the cam screw in place, and get the engine timed correctly, it will give more of a "pop" sound rather than sounding like the offspring of a mad Mallard and a Whoopee cushion. Tomorrow I have to make the arms for the governor and solder them to the weights, then try to assemble the governor---which methinks is too damn much like microsurgery.


----------



## arnoldb (Jun 24, 2009)

Brian, that's looking good :bow:



> rather than sounding like the offspring of a mad Mallard and a Whoopee cushion.


 Rof} Rof} 

Regards, Arnold


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 24, 2009)

I spent the entire day today "frigging" with the flywheel mounted governor.--it works---it actually works!!! But it takes a heck of a lot of "frigging" with to get it to work. I have test ran it on my variable speed electric drill, and the weight arms do fly out under centrifugal force at mid range RPMs, and the spring does retract them when the drill slows down. Right now the sliding cam only moves about 0.050", and I need it to move about 0.080". It appears that the arms are hitting on the outer limits of the flywheel clearance holes, limiting the travel. Tomorrow I will elongate the clearance holes a bit and try to squeeze another 0.030" of travel out of the sliding cam.---I went today and bought a #0-80 tap and two tap drills---the hole tapping went fine, but now nobody in Barrie has 0-80 socket head cap screws.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 25, 2009)

So---We have a runner. I can not get any 0-80 socket head capscrews in Barrie, and my "Nut and Bolt store" doesn't seem to be able to order them except in quantities of 50 (at an outrageous price). If anybody out there would like to take pity on me and send me one #0-80 socket head cup point set screw x 1/8" long, and one #0-80 socket head capscrew x 1/8" or 1/4" long, you would have my everlasting gratitude. See the link to my website for my mailing address. This morning I got up and decided to make a solid cam and see if I could get the engine to run as a conventional engine, and it runs very well as the video shows.---Brian


----------



## vlmarshall (Jun 25, 2009)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> ..If anybody out there would like to take pity on me and send me one #0-80 socket head cup point set screw x 1/8" long, and one #0-80 socket head capscrew x 1/8" or 1/4" long, you would have my everlasting gratitude...


Well, I've got some 0-80s here, you can have 'em if they'll help ya. Thread length is .180", .237" OAL. Ignore the short screw, I don't know how it got mixed in with the others. ;D


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 25, 2009)

I just did some quick checking on my CAD mode, and it looks like maybe I can use one of the 0-80 socket head capscrews for a set screw in the valve actuator bushing. It looks like the head will clear everything ---if so, then its good luck, not good management.


----------



## cfellows (Jun 25, 2009)

Great Job, Brian! Glad to see it's running very well for you. The speed will probably vary some until it get's broken in some. Then it will be pretty consistent. It does take high pressure but not much are to run these engines.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 26, 2009)

I may have spoke to soon on the governor!! Its driving me nuts. The weights do fly out from centrifugal force, and move the sliding collar okay. However, when I slow the flywheel down, the spring doesn't have quite enough strength to return the sliding collar all the way to the low speed position. This can be fixed by changing to a heavier spring, but then I may have to add a bit of weight to the counterweights. This is the hair pulling part of the build, I guess.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 27, 2009)

I finally got the governor to work the way its supposed to, at least on the variable speed electric drill. This is a very finicky operation, largely because the pivotting conterweight arms are so small it is hard to make them with any real accuracy. I also picked up a spray can of International Red and painted the flywheels today. If the 0-80 screws that Vernon sent me get here this week, I may have a new video to post.


----------



## ariz (Jun 28, 2009)

Congrats Brian, very nice running engine :bow: :bow: :bow:

waiting to see it painted and a new running video...
great whole thread too!!!


----------



## lathe nut (Jun 28, 2009)

Brian, guess I am going to repeat my self again, thanks, thanks, thanks, hope by the end of this 100 degree no rain South Louisiana weather I can get started on some projects that you have shared with us, adding on to the shop for more room, the drawings are great and the pictures of the progressive build help when one is not sure how to hold things to get the desired product, again, thanks so much, Lathe Nut


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 30, 2009)

I have had numerous people emailing me and asking about the flywheels, and if they can build the engine as a conventional engine without the hit and miss function and the governors. The answer is---#1--The flywheels CAN be made from aluminum, and they CAN be made to 1/2" thick. ---and the non governor flywheel does NOT have to have the long extended hub as shown on my drawing.---I only made the extended hub that long so that both flywheels would be spaced out the same distance from the crankcase, and I wanted the extended hub to drive an o-ring drive pulley to power some secondary equipment.
 ----#2-You can build the engine with 2 identical flywheels and skip the governors. You will need to build a cam-hub similar to the one in the attached picture.--Please note that I built this from a "scrap" peice of brass and 3/32" steel rod---there is a bit of machining at the extreme outer diameter of the peice in the picture which serves no purpose and doesn't have to be there----And the one in the drawing will not be as thick as the one I show in the picture.













View attachment ASSY OF CAM-HUB FOR NON GOVERNOR ENGINE.PDF


View attachment CAM-HUB FOR NON GOVERNOR ENGINE.PDF


----------



## vlmarshall (Jun 30, 2009)

Haven't those 0-80 capscrews gotten there yet?? :-\


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 30, 2009)

Vern---They came today, thank you very much. I have installed them and am trying to get the machine timed right now. I had it running good once, and then the hub slipped on the shaft and I lost the timing.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jun 30, 2009)

Well boys---Here ya go!!! Its running in hit and miss mode. After 2 hours of messing about with tiny, tiny, tiny #0-80 socket head capscrews and adjusting the timing, it runs. This video was made in the first 5 minutes of operation, so its a bit choppy. Its been setting on the corner of my desk running now for half an hour, and its getting much smoother. I am happy as a pig in mud!!!


----------



## ozzie46 (Jun 30, 2009)

Way to go Brian. Good job. th_wav woohoo1


 Ron


----------



## DavesWimshurst (Jun 30, 2009)

Brian,
Excellent!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:
In only one month, so what are you going to build in July? :big:
Dave


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jul 1, 2009)

I may have shot myself in the foot a little by making the flywheels from steel. My theory was that if the flywheels were uber heavy, they would let the engine "coast" longer between firing cycles. What I overlooked was the fact that since they are so heavy, it takes considerably more kinetic energy to overcome their "resting inertia", so the engine has to fire 5 or 6 times to get the engine spinning fast enough to actuate the governors. If the flywheels had been made of aluminum, which is 1/3 the weight of steel, the firing profile would probably have been quite different. When I get back from the Canadian Rod Tour, I am going to build a small scale varying load machine to demonstrate how applied load affects the hit and miss cycle as the engine runs.


----------



## ariz (Jul 1, 2009)

wooooowwww very very nice!!!

congrats Brian, well done job, as always :bow: :bow: :bow:

these 'hit & miss' engines are starting to intrigue me...


----------



## vlmarshall (Jul 1, 2009)

Great work! It's nice to see it together... so quickly!


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jul 1, 2009)

Thank you Brian.
I've enjoyed following this thread. I've learned quite a bit here.

Very nice.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jul 1, 2009)

Zeeprogrammer---I have only been machining for about 2 years. Prior to that, I have never ran a mill, and only ran a lathe during my apprenticeship 44 years ago. However, since I have to know what all the shop machinery is capable of in order to design machinery which is built on lathes, mills, shapers, etcetera, I had a big head start. There is a world of good information on this website, and some very informative members. One of the really big issues that you will come up against in learning to machine is knowing what questions to ask. Do a lot of reading, follow the builds on this forum, and don't be afraid to ask questions. Go ahead and start to build something, and then when you are uncertain about what exact method to use to achieve a required result, then you will know what questions to ask.---And we will help you.--Brian


----------



## IronHorse (Jul 1, 2009)

Great engine! This definitely is on my list to do this winter.


----------



## rudydubya (Jul 3, 2009)

Nicely done Brian. :bow: Looking forward to following your next project.

Rudy


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Aug 27, 2009)

Some folks have been asking me about the springs that I used in this engine. ---I just measured the spring that operates the 1/4" diameter sliding valve inside the cylinder head.---It is 0.19" o.d. x 0.023" dia. wire x 1.4" free length and the pitch is measured at approx. 0.077" .  The spring which keeps the valve in contact with the cam is 0.25" o.d. x 0.023" dia. wire x 1.5" free length and the pitch is approximately 0.1" (Note that in the final build of my engine I departed from the blueprints in that area). The spring in the governor is 0.31" o.d. x 0.020" wire x 3/4" free length x ??? pitch (I've lost that spring--when I disassembled the hit and miss valving to put on a conventional valve system, the spring escaped and was last seen flying under my desk at 300 MPH.)


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Aug 30, 2009)

I was sorting invoices today, when Lo and Behold, I came across the paperwork on the three springs I used on this engine. They are identified as #71xINDUS0645655 ----#74xINDUS0615370  and #18xINDUS0615090.  They were purchased at Brafasco (Brampton Fastener Company) which (I believe) is an Ontario based company, but the springs are probably made in USA.


----------



## chuck foster (Aug 30, 2009)

i think brafasco gets there springs from ajax spring company.

chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Aug 30, 2009)

aermotor8--Seems you are correct---here is a link to their website
http://shop.springsbyajax.com/category.sc?categoryId=2


----------



## Donrecardo (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi Brian
       Over the last few weeks I have been attempting to build the hit and miss
air engine but at 2X scale. Its going ok ,although getting rather heavy.
 I altered a few things like for instance the frame is built out of 1/2" plate rather than 
machined from solid stock and has a few cosmetic differences. 
I have put ball races on the crank rather than brass bearings . The cylinder is made of bronze,
the piston is aluminium and the cylinder head steel . The non governer side has its flywheel
and I just started on the other side and governer parts but I am confused by the drawings 

On the drawing the soldered assembly of the backing plate has a reamed hole through its centre of 0.344".
Now normally holes are reamed so they are an accurate fit but I cant see what has to fit
into this accurate .344" reamed hole , can you tell me what it is that fits it?

Also on the drawing of the sliding cam it shows it has a diameter of 0.563" along its length
yet on the drawing flyweight govenor.pdf the outboard end of the sliding cam is clearly
only about 3/4 the diameter of the other end . Which one is right ?


Regards 
Don


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Apr 15, 2010)

Donrecardo---You made me do a bit of reseaech on this one. The 0.344" hole does not have to be reamed. It is clearance for the compression spring to fit into.---My mistake. the other .pdf you make reference to is a drawing by someone named s. goergen, and it is a drawing I used for reference when making my design. My drawing is correct (it is changed slightly from the reference I used), and the 0.5625" diameter is correct on both inner and outer flanges.----Brian


----------



## Donrecardo (Apr 15, 2010)

Thanks Brian


----------



## JackG (Aug 19, 2010)

Brian,

Just finished building one of these. Run's beautifully!!!


Thanks,

Jack


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Aug 20, 2010)

Congratulations Jack!!!!! Post up a picture.---Brian


----------



## JackG (Aug 20, 2010)

Hi,

Here are some photos of the engine. As you can see, I made a few very minor changes from Brians design such as I didnt round off the valve assembly (What can I say  I guess Im lazy)  .

Jack


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Aug 20, 2010)

Very, very nice!!!!


----------



## slkride (Mar 11, 2011)

Brian 
     In re guards to your valve, I have good success using a polishing compound such as you would use on Al wheels etc. followed up buy using tooth paste. After which the whole thing should washed in hot soapy water. By the way just down loaded the plans so will put on the must build list. NICE JOB ON THE PLANS. Hope this is of some help.

                                                         slkride Tom


----------

