# Want a challenge?



## mklotz (Jan 31, 2012)

A friend sent me this...

http://www.circlecycleice.com/

Get to work, guys. It's a guaranteed POM if you build one.


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## 90LX_Notch (Jan 31, 2012)

Why is it these "super whiz bang" inventions never have a working prototype?

I bet it is a still birth.


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## mklotz (Jan 31, 2012)

90LX_Notch  said:
			
		

> I bet it is a still birth.



One can only hope.


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## RManley (Jan 31, 2012)

I was quite impressed with the version running on propane but I can see so many issues. Just wait till one of the timing gears goes/wears and you'll bend more than a valve!

R.


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## Foozer (Jan 31, 2012)

So its a piston type turbine engine thingy. Relies on the compressor/turbocharger to keep the exhaust from entering the intake. 

Like to see it run up to 6000 rpm while I back far, far away.

Robert


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## tel (Jan 31, 2012)

Somehow, I think I might leasve doing one of those to the 'other bloke'!

I wanna be _behind _Robert when it lights up!


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## dsquire (Jan 31, 2012)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> A friend sent me this...
> 
> http://www.circlecycleice.com/
> 
> Get to work, guys. It's a guaranteed POM if you build one.



I wonder what them guys were smoking? Sure wasn't normal cigarettes. Just because you can build one in the computer doesn't mean that you can build one in real life and have it work. :big: :big: :big:

Cheers 

Don


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## tel (Jan 31, 2012)

;D Didja take a look at the compression rings? Engaging and disengaging several set of those every cycle ..... :hDe:


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## Metal Butcher (Jan 31, 2012)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> A friend sent me this...
> 
> http://www.circlecycleice.com/
> 
> Get to work, guys. It's a guaranteed POM if you build one.



No problem. I'll get right on it. 8)

Prints please!

-MB


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## rleete (Jan 31, 2012)

dsquire  said:
			
		

> I wonder what them guys were smoking? Sure wasn't normal cigarettes. Just because you can build one in the computer doesn't mean that you can build one in real life and have it work.



But they _have_ built them, and they _DO_ work. Mostly small demonstration models, but larger ones are in testing. If you look at the video link, they show one running on propane. Looks to me like it's running at a pretty good clip, too.

Sheesh, you guys sure are a bunch of naysayers.


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## Omnimill (Jan 31, 2012)

rleete  said:
			
		

> But they _have_ built them, and they _DO_ work. Mostly small demonstration models, but larger ones are in testing. If you look at the video link, they show one running on propane. Looks to me like it's running at a pretty good clip, too.



+1


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## 90LX_Notch (Jan 31, 2012)

I stand corrected about a working prototype. Earlier, those video links didn't work on my computer.


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## rleete (Jan 31, 2012)

Metal Butcher  said:
			
		

> Prints please!



I've seen how you customize engines, you need no plans. Think of it as one completely customized design!


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## tel (Feb 1, 2012)

> Sheesh, you guys sure are a bunch of naysayers.



Not at all, you, or any one else, is quite welcome to build as many as you want BUT I won't be putting my name on the list.


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## Ken I (Feb 1, 2012)

rleete  said:
			
		

> Sheesh, you guys sure are a bunch of naysayers.



A company that I worked for had a Chairman of the Board who hated engineers with a passion - we were all "too conservative" and tended to say things like "it won't work" and "we tried it before and it didn't work" etc. etc.

Unfortunately we have seen all to many bright ideas that are fundamentally flawed.

From my perspective, that is a unique and interesting concept but I can see dozens of problems and expenses whilst not seeing any concomitant advantages over a more conventional engine.

So cute - but there's nothing there.

Sorry but I'm a born again skeptic.

Ken


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## Entropy455 (Feb 1, 2012)

You can build a boat out of sugar cubes. If you use the right glue, and seal it with the right paint, it will work. . . However just because you can do something doesnt mean its a good idea.

Ive taken a close look at this design. As a mechanical engineer, I see no practical application for this engine. The machine has a disproportionate number of moving parts, and has significant bulk for its displacement. There are very tight angular positional requirements that are maintained by a complex gear cluster. Which leads one to ask  what happens when an appreciable load is placed on this engine, and the moving parts begin to wear? Dont get me wrong, the engine is very cool  but this guy will never recover the time and money that hes invested into the project - nor will any of his investors.

No engine builder in the world will purchase this patent for large scale production. Theres too much mass, positioned WAY too far from the rotating axis. Consider that an average automotive flywheel will generate several tons of centripetal force during rotation. It holds together because its a solid chunk of metal, and the shear stress is distributed over a large surface area. Now attach pistons and cylinders to the flywheel with cantilever pins, then install a gear cluster to keep everything parallel. The shear forces from roation alone will rip a larger version of this machine to shreds, in very short time. . .

Hes also trying to worm out of the EPAs catalytic converter requirements on page 3 (probably because theres no feasible way to connect one. . . ) There are two main problems with this. First, there is no such thing as complete combustion. All engines will emit unburned hydrocarbons. Second, attempting to control hydrocarbon emissions through elevated combustion temperatures will cause significant nitrogen-oxide production (which is another big EPA no-no). The EPA will require an EGR system for reducing nitrogen-oxide. This will lower the combustion temperatures, resulting in elevated hydrocarbon emissions  which he will then need to correct by installing catalytic converters. This is basic engine design stuff. . .


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## steamer (Feb 1, 2012)

Entropy,

Your observations are quite true ....and the old addage applies...

" Any fool can make something complicated....it takes true genius to make something simple!"

Dave


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## Troutsqueezer (Feb 1, 2012)

After seeing this, I threw my nearly completed, working ion engine model into the trash. But now that I have read some of the comments about how this circular thingamajiggee could never work, I'd like to get my ion engine back but alas, it's been hauled to the dump already.


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## Entropy455 (Feb 1, 2012)

As we speak, there are fully functional gas-ion propulsion systems pushing satellites into deep space.

There are not however any Circlecycleice engines currently deployed - within any automobile, boat, airplane, motorcycle, generator, etc  anywhere on Earth. I wouldnt hold your breath for one to come on the market anytime soon either.

Back in the 1950s, the Department of Transportation wanted to cut a highway through the Rocky Mountains using atomic weapons. Although it wouldve technically worked, the Department of Energy voted against the idea. . . .


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## Ken I (Feb 1, 2012)

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> But now that I have read some of the comments about how this circular thingamajiggee could never work.



I don't think anyone is saying it won't work - its just simply impractical.

Lots of ideas "work" but for practical reasons fail evaluation, prototyping and ultimately the marketplace economics.

The steam powered car.

The nuclear powered airplane (one actually flew - cruised - it did not have enough power to get itself off the ground).

And dare I say the Wankel rotary engine - although an elegant idea has to all intents and purposes been a failure.

Ken


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## mklotz (Feb 1, 2012)

The supersonic blimp never made it either.

Neither did my personal invention, the thermonuclear hand grenade.


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## tel (Feb 1, 2012)

> Neither did my personal invention, the thermonuclear hand grenade.



Damn Marv! I had a crate of those on order too!


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