# My first IC-engine



## JohnCopper (Mar 16, 2014)

Hi guys, i've been digging through this forum far too long and have finally decided to build my own IC engine!

First of all, I would like to apologize for any mistakes I'll do, I'm from Germany and still learning English 

My Grandfather has a workshop full of tools, including an old lathe and mill, and I'm learning how to work with them right now.

I have a vague idea of what my first engine should "look like" or more how he should overall be constructed, but there are many questions left!

I'm just gonna explain my ideas right now, if you have a suggestion of any kind, i would really appreciate it! After that I'm gonna ask a ton of question, if that's ok  So let's go:

I would like to build an one-cylinder 4-stroke IC engine with either SOHC or OHV (whatever is easier, but OHV looks better IMO) that uses a reed switch and a magnet on the flywheel to trigger a standard spark plug over an ignition coil. There should 

now the questions:
1. what material for cylinder, valves, piston and so on?
2. do i need piston rings? how many?
3. is around 4% (1:25) oil in the foul enough lubrication (also for valves, how can i lubricate the open crankshaft)
4. how much displacement/compression (i would like to build an engine between 20 and 50cc = ca. 1.2 to 3 cubic inches i think)
4.1 what rpm could such an engine reach/what power can it produce? 
5. are there any plans out there? (i prefer metric scales )
6. ... hmm I think i forgot a few ... if I remember them, I'm gonna post again!

thanks so much for your help! I really admire all of your work!


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## Lawijt (Mar 16, 2014)

You can start with the webster engine. Google for it & you can download the plans for free.

 Barry


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## JohnCopper (Mar 16, 2014)

Hi!

Thank you very much for your fast answer!

Although I had something different in my head in the first place, the webster engine seems like a perfect beginner build for me ;D


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## weez (Mar 16, 2014)

Check out www.ridders.nu for some Metric engine plans.  Good luck with your first IC engine.  I am currently working on my first IC engine, the Kerzel Hit and Miss.


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## JohnCopper (Mar 16, 2014)

I actually discovered Jan Ridders page and youtube channel even before this forum. Especially his glass cylinder engines with graphite pistons are amazing to just look at. I'm a little bit afraid of his engines though because they seem more like art to me (also his plans cost a bit )

Is it easily possible to craft an engine after a plan in imperial scale converted to metric scale or are the little errors that could occur a serius problem?

Hit & miss engines are a very interesting topic, too, but i'm more interested in the plain "old" 4 stroke :hDe:


Good night from Germany


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## weez (Mar 16, 2014)

Jan Ridders plans are free.  All you need to do is email him a request and he will email you the plans.  Converting plans to metric is fairly easy to do.  The biggest issues are fastener sizes and stock material sizes.


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## JohnCopper (Mar 17, 2014)

Hi again!

I didn't know that they were free 

Brian mentioned in his Atkinson Build thread (http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/brian-builds-atkinson-engine-18313/) , that he got the plans for a "donation" of about 10 dollars, and that was what I remembered 
On his website he says that he will send them for free, though.

Just found your Kerzel build thread, definitely going to follow it ;D

With which engine did you win the Project of the Month?

Are there any other beginner engines like the webster, but upright?
(I'm also going to ask Jan Ridders for plans of his "Otto 4-Stroke"(http://ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_otto_viertactmotor/otto_frameset.htm) which is very close to what i thought of in the first place)

I hope i can start building soon, but I have to finish my exams first an perhaps wait until it gets a bit hotter outside :fan:

greetings


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## gus (Mar 17, 2014)

Lawijt said:


> You can start with the webster engine. Google for it & you can download the plans for free.
> 
> Barry




The Webster is a very forgiving IC Engine to build. This is the very first running
engine for me. The aeromodel engines can be very unforgiving. Thru building Webster,I went on to build the Rupnow Engine which ran very well.
Planning to build the Nemett-Lynx Engine. Now that I have some hands on experience.


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## Lawijt (Mar 17, 2014)

Jan ship all what you want for free , but he ask for a small donation for his work.


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## JohnCopper (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey 

Thank you Gus, I'm definitely considering to build the Webster engine, but I want to do a little more research.

@Lawjit: That's totally reasonable! His models are very good.

Would it be easier to start off by making a stirling or flame eater engine, or is the Webster a good choice? I don't have much experience in milling ...

My only "problem" with the Webster engine is the imperial scale, I don't really trust in my converting skills, and I'm afraid of doing a mistake ...
Also my machines are metric and I can imagine parts better in metric scale and ..  you get the point

Good night


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 17, 2014)

I think that if you take a close look at Jan's website he does ask for a small donation to help keep his site running and for all of the work he puts into his projects and the plans he provides.---Brian


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## weez (Mar 17, 2014)

JohnCopper said:


> With which engine did you win the Project of the Month?



It was Elmer's Grasshopper steam engine.  Finished thread can be found here.  Have you thought of making a steam engine or two first and then moving up to IC?  Steam engines are more forgiving for a beginner.  I made six steam engines before attempting an IC engine.  After my Kerzel is complete I will probably make another steam engine.


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## gus (Mar 17, 2014)

JohnCopper said:


> Hey
> 
> Thank you Gus, I'm definitely considering to build the Webster engine, but I want to do a little more research.
> 
> ...



No worry. You will do OK. I am ''Imperial'' too but can work with metric.
1'' = 25.4mm.


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## JohnCopper (Mar 18, 2014)

Good evening,

I already thought about starting with an easier build, but I'm - frankly said - just not interested in steam/air engines.
I might go with a flame-eater first, it seems to be a challenging build, but not as critical as an IC-engine.
by the way: it's just amazing how slow your grasshopper is able to turn 


Gus, I did just realize that all of you who build one of ridders engine had to do the converting the other way round!
It might not be that "comfortable" but I'm shure it will work out.


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 18, 2014)

John---Everybody should build a Webster, especially for a first i.c. engine. After building a number of both steam and gasoline powered engines, my question is "How could you NOT build a Webster.---Brian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jakc8wiVZBs&feature=youtu.be


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## Swifty (Mar 18, 2014)

John, as far as flame eaters go, they can be very difficult to get running as I'm currently finding out. As a first engine, they may put you off any future builds. I feel that it's better to go with an air powered engine first.

Paul.


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## gus (Mar 19, 2014)

Swifty said:


> John, as far as flame eaters go, they can be very difficult to get running as I'm currently finding out. As a first engine, they may put you off any future builds. I feel that it's better to go with an air powered engine first.
> 
> Paul.



Hi Paul,

This was the good reason why I shied away from such engines as they are very
deceiving easy to build but have very very unforgiving fits.But I have not given up yet. Will buy some books to read up.Please recommend.

It's Thursday and weekend just a day or two away. Tide times and tides look good. How was your flyfishing trip? I still have my flyrods.


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## Swifty (Mar 20, 2014)

Hi Gus, I think that Jan Ridders made some comments on his web site about getting flame lickers to run, I will have to have a look again. I don't have any other reading material about them.

Got back late this evening from the fishing trip, weather was sunny and 28 deg C, I managed to catch 2 rainbow trout, although small, all fish were catch and release. The only other fish caught was by one of my two friends that I went with, if he caught another one he could have had a sardine sandwich, it was that small. All up, we had a great day though, BBQ lunch with a beer and great company with nice scenery.

Paul.


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## Lawijt (Mar 20, 2014)

Brian Rupnow said:


> John---Everybody should build a Webster, especially for a first i.c. engine. After building a number of both steam and gasoline powered engines, my question is "How could you NOT build a Webster.---Brian
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jakc8wiVZBs&feature=youtu.be


 
 Wow , that is a big piece of brass Brian. The engine runs really well with it.

 Barry


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## JohnCopper (Mar 20, 2014)

Hi guys,

Thank you for all the comments, I was busy the last few days 

Huh, so I really didn't think that flame eaters would be very critic to build, but now I'm going to take a step away from them - for now.

Which air powered engines would you recommend? I'm definitely taking them into consideration again ... sorry for my rapid changes of mind :wall:

Also is there a part you start with building like the cylinder or the fuel tank. Just an uncritic part to start with. Well the cylinder might not be uncritic 

Good night from Germany


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## gus (Mar 20, 2014)

Swifty said:


> Hi Gus, I think that Jan Ridders made some comments on his web site about getting flame lickers to run, I will have to have a look again. I don't have any other reading material about them.
> 
> Got back late this evening from the fishing trip, weather was sunny and 28 deg C, I managed to catch 2 rainbow trout, although small, all fish were catch and release. The only other fish caught was by one of my two friends that I went with, if he caught another one he could have had a sardine sandwich, it was that small. All up, we had a great day though, BBQ lunch with a beer and great company with nice scenery.
> 
> Paul.



The most important part is having friends with you on a fishing trip and have a good time. Hooking up a big or small fish,plenty of fish and no fish will be a good topic . Last Saturday,we hooked up 10 Red Snappers at the very first spot. Just unbelievable. Yarns still spinning.

Took my mates a long time to realise whether Gus is a good or bad fishing guide,landing fish is just luck and skill. Never claimed to be a good guide. The "must have fish to take home'' are no longer coming and thats good. Bearing in mind,Gus provide the use of his boat and helming and diesel and they provide food and drinks.Lately with ''El Nino'' effect,and the dry spell and fish plenty.The Javelins come in 3 kg size.


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## Swifty (Mar 23, 2014)

JohnCopper said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Thank you for all the comments, I was busy the last few days
> 
> ...



John, there are plenty of drawings available for simple air powered motors, basic wobblers are pretty simple and quick to build. It doesn't matter where you start, but if you decide to start on the base first, at least you have something to assemble your parts on to.

Paul.


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