# Cutting Stock



## wespe (Jan 16, 2009)

Just wondering how you guys rough cut your stock. I've fixed my lathe, and it's running great. The only thing is, I don't have a bandsaw, and one is not in the budget. I spent about 15min last night trying to cut through 1-1/4 STL RB (not sure of the exact alloy) with a hacksaw, think I ended up destroying the teeth (cheap blades, anyone?). Ended up searching every nook and cranny of the shop until I found a smaller sized piece that I could make work, but ended up doing more cutting than needed. 

So, how do you cut your stock? Or do you buy it cut-to-length? Should I just buy some good blades and enjoy the workout? Or make a bandsaw the next thing to buy instead of a mill? 

-Tom


----------



## shred (Jan 16, 2009)

I'm a big fan of the cheap 4x6 bandsaw. Under $200 at HF on sale. Sawing raw stock when all I had was my Taig and 1" stock was 'huge', the hacksaw wasn't so bad... now, no way 

For a while I tried to use a jigsaw and sawzall-type things with metal cutting blades, and while cheaper, they aren't nearly as good.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jan 16, 2009)

Wespe---A band saw is great for cutting small stock, and I have one that I bought about 4 months ago. However, with no automatic feed, bandsaws can be kind of a bear for cutting stock. I strongly recomend a power hacksaw. There are a lot of free plans out there for power hacksaws, they will automatically self feed without a person standing watch over them, blades are relatively cheap, and they are quite simple to make.--Brian


----------



## cfellows (Jan 16, 2009)

Virtually every project I do starts out rough cutting stock on my 4 x 6 bandsaw. I would venture to say your lathe and your (soon to be mill) won't get much use if you don't have an easy way to cut rough stock down to size. My 4 x 6 bandsaw was my second major purchase, right after my lathe.

Chuck


----------



## shred (Jan 16, 2009)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Wespe---A band saw is great for cutting small stock, and I have one that I bought about 4 months ago. However, with no automatic feed, bandsaws can be kind of a bear for cutting stock. I strongly recomend a power hacksaw. There are a lot of free plans out there for power hacksaws, they will automatically self feed without a person standing watch over them, blades are relatively cheap, and they are quite simple to make.--Brian


Self feed? With the typical 4x6 in vertical position you have to push the stock into the blade yourself, but in horizontal mode, the weight of the motor and upper parts push the blade through the stock-- clamp it in the vice, turn on, lower to stock and go away.. shuts off when complete. Is that what you're meaning?

This is the designed-for-metal type I have (NB: the stand traditionally sucks): 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







This other kind of bandsaw is designed for woodwork (though it can work on metal) and doesn't go horizontal (there are large, high-end vertical bandsaws for metal; Ignoring those for the moment):


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes, thats what I'm meaning. My issue with the small Harbour Freight style bandsaw is that for my needs they take up too much room. I have a small heated machine shop (in the corner of my engineering office) which has sufficient room for the 14" vertical bandsaw I use for small cuts. I have a large unheated garage where my big old powered reciprocating hacksaw lives. I can put anything up to a 4" diameter steel billet in it and let is chew away untill it has finished the cut and I hear it when it shuts off. My 14" vertical bandsaw is identical to the green one in your picture. I bought it used for $300 and put in a countershaft with a second set of pulleys to slow the blade speed down to 250 FPM and with a metal cutting blade it works just fine for cutting steel.


----------



## shred (Jan 16, 2009)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Yes, thats what I'm meaning. My issue with the small Harbour Freight style bandsaw is that for my needs they take up too much room.


Ah, I get that. They're a somewhat awkward shape, especially with the factory stand (somebody posted a bandsaw cart a while back that looked nice). I have a poorly-heated garage for everything (good thing I'm in Texas), so the HF 4x6 fits in there ok. Very useful when you run across a steal on 12-foot lengths of brass stock.

They make a little 'benchtop' H/V metal bandsaw as well, but I've not used them. Anybody with experience with those?

Btw, I considered the abrasive-disk cutoff saws as well, but the recommendation was to avoid those unless you like little particles of abrasive all over the shop.


----------



## cfellows (Jan 16, 2009)

Tom,

Just a few additional notes to help with your decision. The 4 x 6 bandsaw takes 64 1/2" blades. These are carried at Home Depot and such places and typically cost around $10 for carbon steel. Bimetal blades usually cost in excess of $20, but last a lot longer than carbon steel. You generally want to keep a spare cause they tend to break at a time when stores are closed. My band saw requires some regular fiddling to keep the the cut square. As the teeth wear, vertical tracking seems to change a bit. I've also had to replace the blade guide bearings once in the 14+ years I'hve had the saw.

On the other hand, the bandsaw is superior, when used in vertical mode for making long cuts or curvey cuts in metal plate, angle iron, etc.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jan 16, 2009)

Here are a few pictures of my 14" bandsaw. My heated shop is only about seven foot square, so there is room for my lathe, my mill, my bandsaw, and me, and thats all!!! I couldn't get far enough away from my friggin bandsaw to take a picture of the entire thing, so had to take 3 pictures to show it all.---Brian


----------



## BillH (Jan 16, 2009)

I have a lathemaster tabletop bandsaw. The internals are not of the highest quality so I took it apart to rebuild part of it. Well a project came up that required me to cut some 1x3 aluminum. Was going to use a hacksaw, 2 minutes into it I said *uck it and spent the next couple of hours putting it back together not the way I wanted but so it would work again. It works now but I still need to replace the ball bearings and properly grease it. 
Anyhow, get yourself a bandsaw, it IS a required tool, just as much as a lathe is.


----------



## steamer (Jan 16, 2009)

The 4 x 6 was the best $160 I ever spent 10 years ago....still is

I posted a bandsaw cart some time ago. I'll dig up the thread a bit later

It was designed to get rid of the sheetmetal stand....which was awful, make the saw mobile,and get it low enough to roll under a bench when not in use.

I think the design worked well, but It may be a bit too low.  That aspect can be annoying at times, but it does work well otherwise.

Dave


----------



## rake60 (Jan 16, 2009)

I have a 4 X 6 bandsaw that is used for most stock cutting.

I also have a small abrasive disk cutoff saw.




It's maximum capacity is 1-1/2" stock and as shred mentioned it does make
a lot of dust and wild hot sparks when cutting. On the plus side, it cuts to
within 1/4" of the vice. All that considered, I paid $30 at the local Tractor Supply Store.

Rick


----------



## mklotz (Jan 16, 2009)

If anyone reading this thread is considering getting one of these saws, here's some recommended reading...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=896.msg6012#msg6012


----------



## artrans (Jan 16, 2009)

wespe  said:
			
		

> Just wondering how you guys rough cut your stock. I've fixed my lathe, and it's running great. The only thing is, I don't have a bandsaw, and one is not in the budget. I spent about 15min last night trying to cut through 1-1/4 STL RB (not sure of the exact alloy) with a hacksaw, think I ended up destroying the teeth (cheap blades, anyone?). Ended up searching every nook and cranny of the shop until I found a smaller sized piece that I could make work, but ended up doing more cutting than needed.
> 
> So, how do you cut your stock? Or do you buy it cut-to-length? Should I just buy some good blades and enjoy the workout? Or make a bandsaw the next thing to buy instead of a mill?
> 
> ...


----------



## artrans (Jan 16, 2009)

well with money being and issue and hows not having that problem of late I have the hf band saw and a upright also. And a cutoff saw two thoughs here one you can take a 7 1/2 inch wood saw and put an abrasive blade on it and use that for now. Also a sabra saw with a metal blade I hate cutting metal any which way it seems the blades dull so fast and nothing cuts straight after that also there are some plans around on how to make a power hack saw with scrap metal mostly sq tube stock just some ideas


----------



## rake60 (Jan 16, 2009)

Plans as artrans refers to are available at the *Vintage Projects* website.
They are from 1960's Popular Science articles.

Rick


----------



## wespe (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the replys,

Looked at the vintage plans site. Some good plans for a powered hacksaw, but I think that hacksaw is a little bigger than I was hoping (good sized table to go along with it). Looked further into the plans, found the ones for the benchtop shaper. Has anyone here built this before? I figure that it could be used to cut stock, as well as perform the features of a small milling machine. I think I will look a bit harder at this, and see how feasible it is. 

-Tom


----------



## steamer (Jan 16, 2009)

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2932.0


Here's the link to the thread with the stand.......

Dave


----------



## John S (Jan 16, 2009)

I bought one off those 6 x 4 saws when they first came out, many many years ago.
I had issues with the roller guides not being square and had to modify these but soon got it sorted.

I used to have blades made up at the local saw place free of charge in return for boring to odd saw out for them, mine preferred 64" and not 64 1/2" as it was nearly out of adjustment at 64 1/2" It did steerling work and I only parted it out when I bought a big 18 x 12 saw and it was getting in the way.

To give an idea how hard working these are I wore out two sets of guide rollers over the years.
Another thing to note with any band saw is that once it's cutting square, short of a guide roller failing if it starts to cut on the slant it's the blade, in fact it's always the blade.
Never be tempted to try re adjusting it, just swap the blade. I have even had new blade cut slanted, if they are end of roll material it can do anything.


----------



## steamer (Jan 16, 2009)

Hi John,

I've had reasonable luck adjusting the tracking on the 4x6 saw. Good quality blades run better on it and make all the differance though.....the extra few dollars do make a difference here.

Dave


----------



## rake60 (Jan 16, 2009)

They are tough little saws for the cost.
This was my first one.





It was 20 years old when I bought it 2ed hand for $25 from a 
classified ad. I bought a new one last year and gave the old one
to my brother-in-law. He's still using it.

Rick


----------



## jack404 (Jan 16, 2009)

i have a very large band saw in the factory 
but bought only recently a Milwaukee hand held band saw 

we have cut 4" brass

2.5" Dia SS 416
all sorts of mild steel 

4130 and 4140 in 1" and smaller hex and round

i love it, best buy in a long while 

cheers

jack


----------



## rake60 (Jan 16, 2009)

Everyone would love to have something like that in their home shop Jack!

The bandsaw we use at work is a programmable Marvel saw.
It automatically feed the stock, up to 14" diameter to the length to be cut
for as many pieces as you program it to cut.
Since I usually mess up at least one piece, that would be useful at home too.

It just wouldn't fit into the hobby budget.  

Rick


----------



## T70MkIII (Jan 16, 2009)

shred  said:
			
		

> Btw, I considered the abrasive-disk cutoff saws as well, but the recommendation was to avoid those unless you like little particles of abrasive all over the shop.



I have a big cutoff that I use for cutting steel tube for a car chassis I'm building - I just carry it out of the shop to use it (doesn't get used if raining!). I'd like to purchase a 4x6 but can't justify the cost when I have the cutoff - not at the moment, anyway.


----------



## rleete (Jan 16, 2009)

There are two main problems with the abrasive cutoff saws. One, they throw sparks and a lot of dust up. Those sparks are hot, too. So hot, that one landing on my _glass_ perscription safety glasses left a pit in the surface. You need to wear heavy jeans and boots, and stay out of the direct path of the sparks. They can light cardboard and newspaper in an instant. 

Second, they can only cut ferrous meterial. Try to cut aluminum, and they load up the wheel. This can be dangerous, because a loaded up wheel doesn't cut very well, and the first instinct is to press harder. That can shatter a wheel; not good at all.

Last, mine is a 14" HF model. While it works pretty well for 1" tubing, it isn't very well balanced. It vibrates and rattles. Scares the hell out of me. The abrasive wheels are made in Russia of all places.


----------



## Maryak (Jan 17, 2009)

rleete  said:
			
		

> So hot, that one landing on my _glass_ perscription safety glasses left a pit in the surface.



Try non prescription safety glasses over your ordinary glasses, or a full face shield, works for me and not so expensive.



			
				rleete  said:
			
		

> You need to wear heavy jeans and boots, and stay out of the direct path of the sparks. They can light cardboard and newspaper in an instant.



Better still a leather welders apron; and always wear your safety boots in the shop - leather ones with the steel toe caps.

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## T70MkIII (Jan 17, 2009)

rleete  said:
			
		

> Second, they can only cut ferrous meterial. Try to cut aluminum, and they load up the wheel. This can be dangerous, because a loaded up wheel doesn't cut very well, and the first instinct is to press harder. That can shatter a wheel; not good at all.



Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't tried Al with it yet, but was planning to. Balance is good on mine - will cut 100x100x3 ERW nicely, although not perfectly square towards the bottom of the cut.


----------



## Kermit (Jan 17, 2009)

rake60  said:
			
		

> They are tough little saws for the cost.
> This was my first one.
> 
> 
> ...



The only stock I'm cutting right now is wood for the Lathe workbench,
AND speaking of benches, I notice you have the same 2x6 and 4x4 setup underneath the benches in your shop pic Rake!

NICE, ;D

Back to splitting straight logs into crooked lumber. 

I've cut it twice and it's STILL too short!
Kermit


----------



## joeby (Jan 17, 2009)

For the guys using "chop saws" for cutting up stock; I've parted off a lot of pieces on a surface grinder with cutoff wheels and one thing I've noticed a few co-workers doing with them is "babying" the wheel. I believe they thought they were cutting down on heat; but I think they were creating more. The wheels are not unlike regular grinding wheels, they were made to break down to expose fresh grit and if you're not cutting fast enough to break it down, it loads up and heats your work. 

 If these wheels aren't cutting straight, some of it is the result of the sides of the wheel glazing from deep cuts. They also tend to wear a taper on the sides. A quick look will tell you if this is happening. I take a dressing stick and dress the wheel down some to keep the corners square and stay ahead of the tapering. We normally part off .010" oversize and if the side of the wheel is glazed, it will crowd over to the other, ruining the part.

Just a few thoughts.

Kevin


----------



## BobWarfield (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm a big fan of the DeWalt Multicutter in lieu of chop saws:






Milwaukee makes a similar one. They use a carbide tipped blade that is geared down to run a little more slowly than a regular saw so they will last. These things go through aluminum like butter, and cut steel very well too. The cut is very clean, there are no sparks, and its even a bit quieter than an abrasive chop saw, though still not as quiet as the little bandsaws.

After I bought my multicutter, the little bandsaw languished unused until I built a table for it and started using it upright:






A sturdier stand at a height that's comfortable is important for that.

Right now, I'd like to get a much larger vertical bandsaw.

BTW, Rick, here's one you may like given your Marvel. Go to my web page here and search "Bar Feeder":

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCBlogSep2008.htm

Pix and a movie of a guy that built an automatic feeder for a 4x6 so it could crank out lots of parts. It's pretty simple, and I thought it was so cool!

I don't have a need to make all those parts, but it is amazing what the little saws can do.

Best,

BW


----------



## Kermit (Jan 17, 2009)

There are an increasing number of manufactures making those 7 1/4 circular saw blades with diamond or carbide grit coatings that work on metals. While they aren't great with real thick material they are a Dream when cutting 3/8 or 1/4 thick angle iron or its equivalent. 
It also means you do not have to invest in another piece of equipment. Just 30-40 dollars for a blade for your saw. 



			
				joeby  said:
			
		

> For the guys using "chop saws" for cutting up stock; I've parted off a lot of pieces on a surface grinder with cutoff wheels and one thing I've noticed a few co-workers doing with them is "babying" the wheel. I believe they thought they were cutting down on heat; but I think they were creating more.



I was cutting some stainless pipe and I found if I let up on the feed pressure it would not feed AT ALL, just sit there and turn a bright cherry red.   I was forced to feed it at the correct speed. (304 I think, I got it for free and used them in a sodium hydroxide electrolysizer I have yet to complete for lack of a power source with enough low voltage amps)

Blah blah blah, I've had to much coffee this morning 
Kermit


----------



## rake60 (Jan 17, 2009)

Bob that is the first automatic bar feeder I have ever seen on a 4 X 6.
Great toys!

Rick


----------



## BobWarfield (Jan 17, 2009)

Kermit  said:
			
		

> I was cutting some stainless pipe and I found if I let up on the feed pressure it would not feed AT ALL, just sit there and turn a bright cherry red.   I was forced to feed it at the correct speed. (304 I think, I got it for free and used them in a sodium hydroxide electrolysizer I have yet to complete for lack of a power source with enough low voltage amps)



Kermit, welcome to the wonderful world of work hardening. When cutting stainless, you want to make real sure to keep feeding hard almost no matter what. It's a real pain when it work hardens. I was recently cutting some panels for my CNC out of some "mystery metal". It must have been stainless, because it work hardened before I knew it and I was breaking all kinds of cutters. 

I hate when that happens!  :big:

Cheers,

BW


----------



## gunboatbay (Jan 17, 2009)

For those of you with a shop space problem, the Harbor Freight hand held variable speed bandsaw (0n-sale occasionally for $59) will do a passable job, especially if a bracket is made:


----------



## steamer (Jan 18, 2009)

Great thinking!

Dave


----------



## Loose nut (Jan 18, 2009)

If you can't do it any other way then get a cheap HF 4 1/2" angle grinder with a "Zip Cut" wheel on it, I have cut 2" bar with one, a rough cut to be sure but in a pinch it does the job, just do it out side. Love my bandsaw though.


----------

