# Cutting a tiny keyway using the mill as a shaper.



## S_J_H (Apr 29, 2008)

[Edited to allow playback within the forum]

Well I finally got back to building the PM research engine lathe.
I needed to cut a 4" long keyway in a .187" OD shaft 4" long. I think Marv used a slitting saw and Chili used a tiny 1/32" end mill to cut this keyway on their model PM lathes. Well I had neither tool handy so I thought why not just do it like a shaper would. So I ground a 1/8" square HSS bit to a width of .031", gave it some clearance angles and used a fine grit diamond hone to give it a razors edge. Installed it in a collet and used my spindle quill clamp to lock the spindle tight from rotation.
16 passes taking .002" DOC's resulted in a beautifully cut mini keyway for the feed shaft.
A couple pics and a short movie showing how nice it cut. I'll definitely use this method again in the future.









http://i109.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/keyway-1.flv


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## chuck foster (Apr 29, 2008)

very nice, i never would have thought of doing it that way.
it just proves there is more than one way to do these little jobs!!
great video and pics.............keeps us up to date as the build progresses!!!

chuck


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## zeusrekning (Apr 29, 2008)

Now that is cool. I never would of thought to do that nor had the patience. I have almost no knowledge in shapers but am interested now. 
Tim


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## BobWarfield (Apr 29, 2008)

Was that you CNC mill?

Very clever work, BTW!

Best,

BW


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## Mcgyver (Apr 29, 2008)

well done SJ!


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## chiliviking (Apr 29, 2008)

The only thing that exceeds your creativity is your ability to sharpen a single point tool me thinks. :bow:


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## tel (Apr 30, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> Now that is cool. I never would of thought to do that nor had the patience. I have almost no knowledge in shapers but am interested now.
> Tim



Ah, shapers! Don't get me started on them - the most underrated tool in the history of the universe. I've had my 10" Douglas for about 5 years and I wouldn't part with it for a bucket of rubies.


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## DickDastardly40 (Apr 30, 2008)

Can't see the pics at the mo unfortunately to comment on your method, however I cut some keyways as an apprentice in the lathe using the saddle to move the tool laterally which worked fairly well but didn't half give my hand a blister. It certainly beat sawing, chiseling and filing it them to fit though.

Shapers certainly seem under regarded in the modern world, hobby sized ones seem very rare. Another site that Tel and I visit, has an Adept Hand Shaper for sale and I am sort of interested if only for the odd job but mainly actually having one.

Al


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## Bogstandard (Apr 30, 2008)

Lovely work S-J-H, cutting a short one is easy, what you have done there is a masterpiece.

Did you use your powerfeed?

I only wish I had the room for a shaper, I would get one tomorrow. For doing certain types of jobs they are unbeatable.

John


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## tel (Apr 30, 2008)

Feel free to drool gentlemen - it's mine, all MINE


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## tel (Apr 30, 2008)

Just had a look at that Adept DD - for 50 mintie papers it looks like a bargain


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## zeusrekning (Apr 30, 2008)

tel  said:
			
		

> Ah, shapers! Don't get me started on them - the most underrated tool in the history of the universe. I've had my 10" Douglas for about 5 years and I wouldn't part with it for a bucket of rubies.



Details??? Show us some pics, videos, demonstrations. 
I've seen a couple Bridgeports with shaper heads attached but like I said "never used". I see keyways being cut with them but what kind of other things.
Tim


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## S_J_H (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words guys.
 I used my cnc'd mill. I just used it in manual mode with power feed on the x axis. Without power feed it might have been a little difficult to keep it cutting smoothly each pass.

Nice looking shaper! I would really like to own an old shaper one day. Can't seem to find one locally yet. 

Steve


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## Mcgyver (Apr 30, 2008)

yeah a shaper is a great machine, orphaned by industry so low cost to buy, fun to watch and cheap to run. I like it when I've got the lathe and mill and bandsaw all running at the same time, add in a shaper and productivity would really step up ;D  I've just about filled a two car garage and it would be squeeze to get one in, still, I might try one day


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## BobWarfield (Apr 30, 2008)

S_J_H  said:
			
		

> Thanks for the kind words guys.
> I used my cnc'd mill. I just used it in manual mode with power feed on the x axis. Without power feed it might have been a little difficult to keep it cutting smoothly each pass.
> 
> Nice looking shaper! I would really like to own an old shaper one day. Can't seem to find one locally yet.
> ...



A shaper wizard seems like a relatively easy thing for Mach 3. You could envision telling it DOC, desired slot depth, and even a mode where it traverses to create a wider slot than the tool point. All very straightforward with CNC. 

I wonder why we don't hear about shaping like this more often? Folks just not as smart as S_J_H I guess! 

I have read a few accounts of folks using the Z-axis to broach. That generally raises the hackles because its really bad for the spindle bearings. Makes me thing an attachment for the head that doesn't even plug into the spindle might be used for broaching and shaping on a mill. It would just need to be rigid and make provision to hold the tool. Not as sturdy as a real shaper, but it ought to beat fooling around with broaches and an arbor press.

Cheers,

BW


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## DickDastardly40 (Apr 30, 2008)

I suppose with CNC you wouldn't need a clapper as you could program the tool to retract on the back stroke.


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## rake60 (Apr 30, 2008)

Nicely Done Steve!

Rick


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## S_J_H (Apr 30, 2008)

A mach3 Shaper wizard would be very easy to setup up. On my setup the spindle is locked tight to the quill so the bearings take no side load during the scraping process. This setup gives possible a stroke of over 14" on my mill.
I see a hitch though and that is the clapper.Having no clapper means the z axis will need 0 backlash if a good finish is to be made. It would appear the y axis as the feed would provide better rigidity but with a loss of travel. However I still have near 8" travel in the Y dimension.
I see this method as just another method to add to ones bag of tricks. 
I have a few plans for a small shaper and I am considering building one.Also the PM Research models are good enough that one could scale it up and build a very very nice shaper machine.


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## dparker (Apr 30, 2008)

Hello All: All this talk about shapers is interesting. I have a SMALL shaper and use it once in awhile. I recently made a adapter to fit over the formed protractor fence on the grinder. The formed fence would let the 3/16" tool bits tip or roll under the bend so I machined a aluminum adapter that fit right down on the table. I needed to have a .125" slot to fit the fence into and did not have a .125" end mill that would cut 1/2" deep. I ground a tool bit to the needed width and started to slot the bar, I quickly found that I am mot man enough to take this cut full width on this shaper. It was over to the band saw and make some relief cuts and then back to the shaper and all went well except for the blisters and tired arm.

My shaper is smaller than your shaper! (Perfecto 7" manual with home made vice)





completed fence revision





I also made a tool holder like the "bigger" shapers use but have not tried it yet.




don


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## djc (May 3, 2008)

S_J_H  said:
			
		

> This setup gives possible a stroke of over 14" on my mill. I see a hitch though and that is the clapper.Having no clapper means the Z axis will need 0 backlash if a good finish is to be made. It would appear the Y axis as the feed would provide better rigidity but with a loss of travel. However I still have near 8" travel in the Y dimension.



I'm not too sure how the backlash affects the finish any more than it would do so if using a mill in the machine. You do your stroke in X, retract Z, rapid return, increment Z and carry on. It's better than a shaper in this respect as the tool is not dragging on the work on the return stroke.

The CNC would give you lots of options: as you say, use X as stroke and Y as feed. You could also turn the spindle 90 degrees and use Y as stroke and X as feed. What about mounting the tool perpendicular to the spindle axis and using X as stroke and Z as feed? Turn the spindle to 45 degrees and use a compound X-Y move to produce chequer plate.

Could I ask one question: your keyway is blind - did you find it necessary to drill the end to allow chip relief or did you retract Z towards the end of the stroke?

Thanks for a very interesting idea.


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## S_J_H (May 7, 2008)

ahh but that's the difference, I normally do not retract Z when surfacing with my mill.
It would not be to hard to build a solenoid triggered retract mechanism with exact repeatability and keep the Z axis rigid. Maybe in the future..

 I did not pre-drill or even retract the Zaxis on any return stroke to cut that keyway. 
Just a slow feed cut, return without moving Z, lower Z by .002" and repeat until it was done. 

Steve


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