# More confusion over flame lickers



## rlukens (Feb 14, 2018)

I recently asked if I could scale up the Poppin flame eater. Now I've decided to design my own hybrid plan... hybrid inasmuch as I'll incorporate other's design elements. However, the more I research the more I "vasillate" (don't say that in mixed company). 
I recently was impressed with John Ridder's engine. It incorporates a very simple and clever internal valve. He has a great write-up on the pros and cons of his build. However, he's led me to believe that anything shy of perfection will not run... tolerances in the tenths, graphite pistons, exacting flame, etc. Then again, I've seen a beautiful engine by Philip Duclos that contradicts that.
I guess what I'm asking, from those of you with experience is: what are main criterion for success (and failure). 
I need to get off the fence and start making chips.

TIA,
Russ


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## Jasonb (Feb 15, 2018)

Lack of friction and a good fit of piston in cylinder and fit of shutter and valve, these all want lapping but its not that hard to do.

Brian is about to strat on one of Jan's engines so have a look at his recently started thread.


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## Blogwitch (Feb 15, 2018)

I did my learning curve on that Jan Ridders one many years ago. Although fairly easy to make, setting it up and flame position can cause great frustration.

I got it running with both meths and gas, but eventually used meths. All sizes of wicks were trialled and I eventually ended up with a glass fibre one which lasts a lot longer than cotton, and the main cause of not running was the temperature of the cylinder. It won't start from cold, you need to warm it up first. I used a gas blowtorch along the cylider for about a minute, then let the heat soak through for another minute, then it would start no problem. No oil to be used for lubricating the cylinder, but after each fairly long run, the cylinder does require cleaning out of the spirits burnt residue. I just pour meths intom the flame hole and operated the engine by hand for a while. If you don't clean out, it will not start.

I think I was the first one to get one running on here, others people had confined theirs to either under the bench or in the bin.

It took me about a week to get it to turn over by itself and eventually I made a twin cylinder opposed one, and it worked great, and still does.

To put it bluntly, not the easiest ones to get running.

It looks like the easiest one to have success rate with is the 'Poppin', over the years I have seen many builds of these and it seems people had no real trouble getting them running.

John


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## fcheslop (Feb 15, 2018)

As already mentioned piston fit and friction
I made the larger Duclos as my first flame gulper and she ran straight away no problems not temperamental not to critical on flame position well for a gulper that is
I built Mr Ridders twin and single internal valved engines and had to do a lot of swearing to get them to run and even now they are a fiddle to start whilst the Duclos is literally light it flip the flywheel and away she goes even from cold  although sometimes you get condensation on the valve face that has to be dried out. Its now over 20 years old and has done a lot of running and the alloy cylinder is still surprisingly good and she has a good run time not what I would have expected from an alloy cylinder. 
Poppin Iv built two one as per drawing the other to look a little like a hit n miss engine.They both ran straight from the drawing with no problems 
My two go to flame gulpers when I just want to have a quick run are both designed by Mr Duclos the large one and Little Blazer. Little Blazer goes like the clappers and hovers along the bench 
cheers
frazer


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## minh-thanh (Feb 15, 2018)

1/ *Piston fit with cylinder and friction*
2/ Read carefully: 
http://ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_happer_miniatuur/happer_mini_frameset.htm
3/ You should make a valve leaf like mine - http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?p=302093#post302093
4/ It's not too hard to do !!


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## el gringo (Feb 15, 2018)

I have built a small Duclos engine but I can't find plans for a larger one by him... could you point me in the right direction?  
Ray M


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## CFLBob (Feb 15, 2018)

I just joined this forum and it's really cool to see talk about this. I've always liked these little engines and I'm just getting started on the Philip Duclos engine from the Shop Wisdom book.  It's the only one I know of, besides Jan Ridders' engine.  

My only successful engine so far is a Little Machine Shop wobbler engine.  It runs but wobbles in ways it's not supposed to.


Bob


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## el gringo (Feb 16, 2018)

I can;t find 3/8 inch wicks. /Anybody know of a source?
Been making them out of  rolled up cotton cloth,
 I was afraid pieces of glass from the fiberglass wick   might get sucked in the cyl and abrade the piston/cylinder wall. 
Ray M


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## fcheslop (Feb 16, 2018)

There are some plagiarised drawings for the larger Duclos engine on the JohnTom site I think ubder the name Dallas engine
There is also a lot of drawings at this site
http://www.vapeuretmodelesavapeur.com/accueil/index.html

http://www.vapeuretmodelesavapeur.com/telechargements4/flame-eater-a.d.-dallas-05-02-03.pdf

For wick material I prefer to use glass fibre stove rope.It comes in several sizes from 4mm to 12mm and ebay maybe youre friend or the local diy shop
Good luck
kind regards
frazer


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## Goldflash (Feb 16, 2018)

Wicks 
I use the stuff that they sell as Exhaust header Pipe wrap its a glass fibre base but works well and a meter of it will last a life time


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## el gringo (Feb 16, 2018)

Thank you, looks like that is the one I used for my build. Do you see any problems with the glass fibers getting sucked into the cylinder and causing scouring between the piston and wall?

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=27488


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## fcheslop (Feb 17, 2018)

Iv not had any problems with glass wicks and find if anything less gumming of the cylinder using them
Iv seem fine mesh used for wicks but never tried it also bundles of fine wire
cheers


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## Blogwitch (Feb 17, 2018)

I don't have any pictures at this time showing the wick configuration for the Jan Ridders flame gulper.

But if you carefully watch the wick tubes, you will see how close and how high the flames need to be to get it running nicely. I do have another vid of it running outside, which is almost unheard of for this engine, but it does perform just as well as this indoor showing.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyrWRBoC-2c[/ame]

The fibre glass wicks were obtained from a garden centre. They are used for the outside spirit burning torches and you can buy replacement packs of wicks, which should last me a lifetime. You can see a piece of wick that I used on the stand behind the engine.

Hope it helps.

John


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## el gringo (Feb 17, 2018)

thanks for the input guys...I'm gonna try it.


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