# Finger engine revisited



## Bogstandard (Apr 26, 2008)

I thought I would show you the backroom stuff that I do, the reason for me going quiet for a while, instead of all my pestering about. Making engines for other people does require a little more care, it is OK to have a few scratches and bumps on your own, but when it is for someone else, it has to be as near perfect as possible. Also because a lot of the parts are true custom pieces, it isn't feasible to make any extras, like if I was making a quick batch production, the time wasted could not be accountable, so if you make a mistake on one piece and rectify it, the other pieces have to be rectified in the same way to make them all the same. So the thing is, don't make mistakes.

I did a build on finger engines last year, and the basic dimensions are taken from that, but because I have free reign on the new design, I will modify the parts as needed, but still sticking to the dimensions.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=862.0


I have already started on one of the major parts and turned it into a bit of a post.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1809.0


There are four basic major parts that need a good dose of looking at to give it a bit of pizazz. The flywheel, the conrod, the crank and the finger treadle. The plate work is fairly easy, just a quickie reshape and all will be OK on that score.
So here is as far as I have reached. The flywheels have been trued up perfectly and have had the centres glass bead blasted. The cranks are now shaped and built up to what I want them to look like. The rear standards are stuck together with double sided tape and are rough cut to size, I have drawn out on the plates what I want them to eventually look like.












This second picture shows the contrast produced by bead blasting the flywheels. Once all the work is completed, the flywheels will be sent back to the blasters to be chemically cleaned, just to remove any dirt from the blasted area.
None of these parts are yet polished. This is the preliminary stage where all the scratches and machine marks are removed. When polished the ali will end up looking like chrome and the brass will have a lustre that looks six inches deep.

The problem is I have only just over a week to get these engines finished. It doesn't help when a friend phoned me about an hour ago, for me to make him a new part for his classic racing motor cycle, by tomorrow midday.


John


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## Bogstandard (Apr 30, 2008)

I hacked out the rear standards, and to me they looked terrible, then it just so happened, Bob put up a post about how old things had curvature and a jet age look.

So a quick recycle job on the old, and some new plates cut.

This pic shows the old (crappy) and the new together.







All six plates were stuck together with double sided tape, and over about an hour I rough profiled them to the marking on the end, just by sticking it into the miller and hacking about with a couple of different cutters. 







Now they are all roughed out, they will be hand shaped, still stuck together, then separated for final clean and polish.






I might do a little bit of rework tomorrow on the base, to me it doesn't look streamlined enough. But I will have to calculate where the holding screws are going first.

John

BTW, you will notice I still have two datum faces, under the base, and on the front face of the base and the front of the circular bit, this will allow me to drill the mounting holes square before carrying on with the profiling.


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## bretk (Apr 30, 2008)

John,

 Have you thought about getting a small ultrasonic jewelry cleaner on ebay? I picked one up with roughly a 6 by 7 by 2" deep pan and it works great for post blasting, tumbling or degreasing chores.  Best of all it was less than $40 !

-Bret


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## Bogstandard (Apr 30, 2008)

Bret,

When my workshop is rebuilt in a few months time, there will be one in there, as well as the required bead blaster. I do in fact get jobs done like that for free, but I usually have to wait for 24hours to be done.

Thanks

John


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## Divided He ad (Apr 30, 2008)

I like the retro touch John. For some reason the idea of streamlining something that will never travel through the air is still very appealing? ??? ;D 

I can't wait to get my shop back in order and finish my finger engine... seems like ages since I started it! I've got a few new idea's that I hope will work and I think will be very original? (I'll make it and you will all probably say "been there done that!" :big: but I will have enjoyed it all the same  )


Ralph.


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## bretk (Apr 30, 2008)

John,

By the way, the finger engines look real sharp! I'm sure the recipients will be pleased.

-Bret


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## BobWarfield (Apr 30, 2008)

I'm intrigued!

Can't wait to see the finished result.

In my shop, the swoopy curves are best accomplished on my disc sander. Eventually I will build a nice belt sander, which offers even more flexibility. The disc gets in the way sometimes.

Cheers,

BW


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## Bogstandard (May 1, 2008)

No such luxury for me Bob, I do it by hand.

Maybe I am a bit of a masochist.

John


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## Bogstandard (May 3, 2008)

BLESSED ARE THE CRACKED, FOR THEY ARE THE ONES WHO LET IN THE LIGHT!

With me, I've got floodlights as well.

This is real hard going, I am trying to get these engines finished for a deadline of next thursday, and I have a friend who has to get his racing bike finished for the same deadline. So hopefully he won't come with any more jobs and I can hack on with this.

As I said in my last post, I want to do a slight streamlined look, but I am doing it the hard way, rough trim with the miller, then finish off by hand.
I have now got the first pair to very rough finish, they still need to be flatted before final buffing. I have also introduced a bit of felt tip colour to see if it will lift the part a little and hilight the finning. The bearing will not be in the position it is in, it will be hidden on the other side. One side will have a brass spinner, and the other the flywheel, again with a spinner.







When doing something like this, because the bits are on the opposite side of the engine, and are not side by side, a few thou either way will never be noticed, so you can get away with hand shaping. As long as all the datum faces and holes are in the correct position you will have no problems.
These next couple of pics are what it will be like when mounted up.







The previously made rear standards will not be going to waste, I can make new profiled front standards out of them






Do you think the colour works?, and if it does, should the flywheel recesses have the same treatment?, or will it be too much.


John


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## BobWarfield (May 3, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> BLESSED ARE THE CRACKED, FOR THEY ARE THE ONES WHO LET IN THE LIGHT!
> 
> Do you think the colour works?, and if it does, should the flywheel recesses have the same treatment?, or will it be too much.
> 
> ...



Yes and yes!

I think the red highlights are totally in keeping with the period. Moreso for a toy, which these are. I supposed if you did one and didn't like it you could sandblast the color back out. 

Cheers,

BW


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## Bernd (May 3, 2008)

Ditto what Bob said. ;D

If you don't like the way it looks you can always remove the colour. 

Bernd


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## Divided He ad (May 3, 2008)

John, 

You know I am going to have to agree. The extra little bit of colour goes a long way. In the top pic' it looks like the flywheel has a little blue in it already...Or am I seeing things? (this time of the morning that is possible!) Think it's just a light trick but it should look pretty good. 
What colour would you do the third engine?


Ralph.


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## Brass_Machine (May 3, 2008)

I like the color John. It adds something to the design that fits well.

Eric


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## cfellows (May 3, 2008)

You sure do nice work, John. Very innovative and nicely executed. :bow:

Chuck


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## rake60 (May 3, 2008)

John you always seem to be able to find a way of 
making more of something.

I like the color accent!


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## Bogstandard (May 4, 2008)

It seems like everyone thinks I am a bit of a guru over things like this.

Nothing could be further from the truth, and I have said this many, many times before, I am doing nothing that anyone else on here could do just as well, and most probably even better.

All I do is use what I see every day and put it into metal, no special machinery, just a bit of experience. A cut here, a tickle with a file there. I think where the difference is, I will try something, and if it isn't successful, I will either recycle it or modify until it looks right. I you never try it, you will never get the unique look you are after.






It looks difficult, but it isn't, all I use usually is a felt tip and a few files. Notice also the files I am using, no handles. These aren't just cheap files, they are good quality, but I grind the tangs off because I find I can use them a lot easier because say when I put a curve on something , my fingers are closer to the curve than if I used a handle, I can feel my way to a shape. The reason I use expensive files is because a lot of cheap files nowadays don't have hand safe edges (that is where one face has no teeth on, usually a narrow side) and this allows me to use finished faces to be guides for other faces I am filing.
If you looked carefully at the parts I have filed up, no two are exactly the same, as I said in my previous post, it doesn't matter, when the engine is finished, the two parts aren't close enough together to be compared. What I will do is match the best pair closest together for the engine I am working on.
The lads that are doing the team build are coming thru with flying colours on this score, I said that they would end up with more than the basic engine, because each person will put a bit of his own design into it, and that is exactly what is happening.

This sort of thing can be done on almost any engine you build, to give yourself a unique looking engine.

Just try it, pretty soon you will be way ahead of me.

Just look at my signature line, it says it all.

John


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## Bernd (May 4, 2008)

And here's why they think your a guru.  The one part of that statement says it all "I can feel my way to a shape."

Many people don't have that kind of intuition to be able to turn out work like that. Either you have it or you don't. Dosen't mean they'll turn out second rate items, it's just they don't have that third sense that you do.

Bernd


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## Bogstandard (May 5, 2008)

The next bit to be made is the treadle, and this has caused me major headaches over the last couple of days. Either I go the way of my previous ones and make it out of ali angle, and it will look like nothing much, or go for a built up one out of brass that will take twice as long, but will hopefully match the engine a little better.

Before I carry on to show you what I got up to today, this is a pic of a brand new BMW front under bumper(I think). I had friends call and their son thought of me when they threw this away at the main agents. It has a very slight transportation twist in it, two men and ten seconds and it would be fixed. As it was they asked if I could put it to good use. There is enough soft 4mm ali to keep me going for years. So yes, I said, I would take it off their hands, so they wouldn't have to take it home with them.







So this is what I eventually decided on, a built up treadle. A spare ali treadle from a previous engine was brought out to give me the dimensions required that my new one will be made to. The shaped brass block is 3 bits of 1/4" brass plate, soldered together, a circle scribed on one end and a couple of lines drawn to give me a teardrop shape, This was then rough cut out on the bandsaw and miller and transfered to my first secret weapon.







Not much of a secret really, a cheap and nasty set of carpenters drum sanders. I mount them so that there is a gap of about 1/32" between it and the drill table. I find I can profile all non ferrous stuff in no time, and keep the sides totally square. I usually have a bit of 1/16" plate under the part to get it away from the gap at the bottom. I have been using these for years, and this drum has never been changed yet.







Here are the three bits desoldered. I checked the circle diameters on them and there was less that 2 thou difference, so it does prove that using the drum sander does keep them very square.







Now for the next secret weapon. Screams from the purists all round. But if you look carefully, this is my four jaw self centreing chuck, with prebored soft jaws and one of the jaws removed. But if you look even more carefully, the circular part of the job is very well supported, more than 180 degrees of the circumference. I have in fact used this with two opposing jaws, and still kept within safe grip limits.
By using it this way, I was able to machine a rough depression in the fingery bit of the treadle, and finish it off with a bit of emery.







This next shot shows the finger bits finished, plus the uprights, which were made using the same principle of all parts soldered together and profiled.






Tomorrow I have to figure a way to join the two parts together, but still retain its slight eccentric looks.

John


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## chuck foster (May 5, 2008)

john as usual you are turning out very nice work.

as you said there are lots of people on here that can make the parts and pieces that are required to get the job done.
but you have years of hands on experience and a keen eye for finish and style.

i can fabricate and machine most anything my dad can do, but his ALLWAYS looks better!!!
my parts look to big and heavy (i don,t have an eye for proportions)
i have allways been told that if a 2 x 2 will do the job i use a 6 x 6 

chuck


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## Bogstandard (May 6, 2008)

Chuck,
I have the honest belief that it isn't all in eye and feel. I think people are scared of trying to do something different, and also want an engine running as soon as possible, so don't clean the part they have done before going on to the next one. By the time it is built, it is just too much trouble to strip it all down again to finish it off.
If you notice how I do things, invariably I finish a part as far as possible before going to the next bit, so at the end it is just a quickie bling over and polish.


Now onto the problem solved bit. How to get the treadle assembled and still make it look quirky, and keeping the centre of the finger doodah on the same axis as the spindle. I thought of all ways, bits of bent rod, angle brackets, but eventually came up with a very easy solution. As always when building prototypes I always leave a bit of extra metal on in places, just in case the area will be needed. I left a bit hanging down below the spindle and decided to attach the tear drop to that.
So the method was to cut a 5/32" (4mm) half round slot into the back of the part and silver solder a bit of rod into it. This was then blended into the part using my little drum sander and given a quickie polish. The one at the back shows just how well it blended in.







Now you can see why I don't like to use flash on finished parts, all the detail is gone. 
Why polish it before silver soldering? Because there are a lot of curved parts on this piece, so after assembly, I won't be able to get the right hold points and access to all the part to give it a proper going over, so after it is silver soldered, it will just need a quickie buff over. The straight bits for the upright won't have the same problem, so will be left until it is all assembled.







This is how I devised the way to get what I want, simple but effective, and the tear drops are spot on in line with the spindle.







Now stuck together permanently (I hope). A soak in pickle overnight, and an hours polishing should see them finished.






Only two major bits to go, baseplates (first) and then the conrod, plus a few little joinery uppery bits, and two days to do it in.

Will the masked man get it done?, or will he fail dismally?, all might be revealed in the next exciting episode.

Batjohn and Bandit, his faithful helper.


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## CrewCab (May 6, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Will the masked man get it done?, or will he fail dismally?,



No problem imho ......... t'will be complete with a day to spare methinks 

Very nice work John 

Dave


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## Bogstandard (May 6, 2008)

Dave, 

Making them is the easy bit, finishing them off will take the time. I am expecting at least 6 hours finishing work for the baseplates alone, so a bit tighter than you expect.

John


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## Brass_Machine (May 7, 2008)

John... I really enjoy the retro styling you are doing with these engines. Guru or not (yes to the guru... and don't argue with me!) you do fantastic job of documentation and THAT is appreciated on this board. It gives others ideas on how to do things. Especially us newbs. And for that, Thank You John.

Eric


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## Bogstandard (May 7, 2008)

Remember, you reap what you sow. What you put into the lives of others comes back into your own.

Eric, if you learn just one new thing out of the whole post that helps you on your way, satisfaction is guaranteed on my part.

Early start today, got rid of the wife for the morning, stuck the dog into his box with superglue, and put anti personnel mines at the front of the house. NO ONE DISTURBS ME TODAY. Next stop, lunch.

John


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## DickDastardly40 (May 7, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Not much of a secret really, a cheap and nasty set of carpenters drum sanders. I mount them so that there is a gap of about 1/32" between it and the drill table. I find I can profile all non ferrous stuff in no time, and keep the sides totally square. I usually have a bit of 1/16" plate under the part to get it away from the gap at the bottom. I have been using these for years, and this drum has never been changed yet.



John,

You've thought of this already and there is a very good reason why you don't I'm sure ;D

If you were to put a hole in your 1/16" plate the diameter of the sanding drum, the gap could be submerged and the full periphery of the drum would be available without having to move the plate. 

Al


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## Bogstandard (May 7, 2008)

Al,

I knew there must have been a better way.

Thanks for that.

I do in fact use four different sizes of drums, so the way I do it is just easier for me. But yours is definitely a better way if just using one size.

John


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## Bogstandard (May 7, 2008)

After an early start today, and finished at 9 tonight I am whacked out. Something didn't go quite right, so that held me up for about three hours while I put the bases right. I was forced to do a little bit of climb milling (not recommended) and the cutter jumped out of its slot, so a redesign was called for, the base is now 1/4" narrower than I had planned.

So what really got done?

First thing was that I took the brass out of the pickle and did a polish job on them. Still not quite finished, but can't go any further until the standards and conrods are mounted.








I would have liked to have had a wooden base to these engines, with a thin mounting ali plate. But because of time limitations I have gone for 1/2" thick ali plate, again recycled from old factory jig plates. This pic shows the 'brick' of three plates stuck together with double sided tape and has already been squared up. These were then profiled to shape as a block.







After they were shaped up, I warmed them up with a blowtorch and left them for five minutes, this allowed them to be split apart fairly easily, and peel the old tape off. As you can see, the bases still have a bad surface finish, from being used for years in a factory.







Now starting to look like a finger engine. The bases were flycut on both sides to clean them up, and the mounting holes and counterbores drilled.
The bases still look too bulky, but by putting profiles on the edges will give the illusion of being thinner and lighter.






So tomorrow will be to profile, polish and engine turn the bases. Make the conrods (still have no idea what I want them to look like), flat and polish all the bits, and start putting them together to see if they run.

John


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## Bogstandard (May 8, 2008)

A quick blast now, earlier than usual. I will be working on these until the early hours to get them completed, but won't be able to post the finished results until late tomorrow, as I have a motorcycle to prepare for a display, with a friend.

So here goes

The crappy and scratched blocks from my last post have been profiled to give a 50/60's look (remember the cinemas from that day, outside they had straight lines and nice clean curves), cleaned up and polished. The top faces will have to be flatted by hand to get a good finish for engine turning.







This shot shows how I dress my hard rubber abrasives to give the correct size that I want. They are being taken down to 1/2" from 13mm, that makes it easier for me to layout the engine turning. I am abrading them down on a standard grindstone dressing stick.







Two hours, and two bases completed, just one more, a bit of dressing and polishing on the other bits will start to see things coming together and the engines should be finished early in the morning.






These WILL be done for tomorrow, so no worries on that score.

John


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## Divided He ad (May 8, 2008)

John,

I really like the profiling on the bases  and the engine turning (which is soon to be tried!) really makes a huge difference. But then you already know that!! 

The recipients of the final engines should be gobsmacked!  

Can't wait to see the finished article.


Ralph.


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## rwells (May 8, 2008)

Sir 
Your finger engines are the greatest. I hope to try some soon. I look forward to your updates and pics. Can you give me or include in your posts some of the steps to achieving the finish polished loook of the al and brass. Keep up the good work.

Rick


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## Bogstandard (May 9, 2008)

Just got back in, a hard day getting a motorcycle ready, everything up and running. 

Unlike my finger engines. Got to 1am Friday morning, starting to assemble, picked up the flywheels and noticed that they were absolutely filthy where they had been bead blasted, and subsequently polished. I had forgotten to send them away for chemi cleaning on Wednesday. A typical mistake, too busy on the build to remember little things like that.

So now the earliest they will be back is Wednesday.

It serves me right for lying to you, these weren't made by me, but my dog Bandit, my new apprentice.

Just joking of course. This commission wasn't for a customer, but myself.
I had to keep it a bit of a secret because John S 1st comes surfing on the site.

At the show today I was going to present one to John S 1st, after 2 years as my internet apprentice, and my first time meeting him, I was going to show him a bit of recognition for how well he has progressed. A second one was going to be given to an engine collector I know, and is displaying at the show, he helps me out when he goes to the States every few months, getting me bits and bobs that I want, it was just to show my appreciation for what he does for me.

The third is still a secret.

So much for being well planned, fallen flat on my face with this one.

I do have a few pre assembly photos, but I am just too tired at the moment to make up a post. I will do it when they are all assembled with flywheels, before they are sent away.

Got to get some sleep now, early start in the morning to go to the show.

Rick,

Did a post late last year about blinging up an engine, I think it might be in the tips and tricks.
Can't remember what was in it, but if it doesn't explain it enough, just let me know and either I or someone else will give you the lowdown.

Ralph,

It is a bit late now for you to read this, but if you do, I will bring some bits to the show for you, for you to try the engine turning with.

John


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## CrewCab (May 9, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Got to get some sleep now, early start in the morning to go to the show.



It will all come good John, don't fret  ............. just enjoy the show 


and don't forget your camera ;D

Have a great day 8)

Dave


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## Bogstandard (May 13, 2008)

It wasn't until early this morning that the flywheels were picked up, so they will be a few days, but before that I had a re-look at the engine and decided that the conrod looked a bit too heavy still, so just to pass the time, I will show you a few ideas that I had, plus a tip if you want to build your own engine.

This first sketch shows a couple of ideas I had for the conrod, the first was quickly rejected because it was too futuristic to go with this engine, maybe sometime in the future this design will be used. The second one looked promising, so that was the one I went with.
The third bit of the sketch shows how to get the figures right if you want to design and build your own. The centre point of the crankshaft should be exactly the same height as the front pivot point of the conrod. The fingery doodah that you push up and down on can have its pivot point anywhere, just remember that if the finger pad is not on the centre line of the pivot point, you will get a strange 'feeling' as it is operated. The closer the pivot point is to the conrod pivot, the more up down movement will be given on the pad, the lower, the less movement will be required on the pad.
I found that 3" was OK for me between front and back standards centre points. 2.5" or even 6" would work just as well, just depends how long you want the engine to be. It makes no difference to the stroke lengths.
The bit of geometry is showing how to calculate the con rod centre length when using my settings. Just substitute your point centres and crank throw, and find the hypotenuse length of a right angle triangle. There are loads of little programs about that will do this for you, I posted a little one in the downloads section.
If you don't do this calculation, when the crank is vertical, up or down, your front doodah will not be vertical and so you will get wierd throws either way on the finger pad.







This pic shows the finished standards. Bearings fitted, a dab of coloured paint to give a highlight and you will notice that I have modified the front of the base on the rear standard to make it 'flow' a bit better.







I had already made and finished the conrods, but as I said, they still looked like they needed something else. So I carried on with the teardrop theme and shaved them down a bit. First I hacked a bit away on the miller, and then took to handwork again.







A few months ago I couldn't have tackled handwork like this, but now with my new found mobility I can't get enough of it. The shaping again was all done by eye and feel, and takes about two hour for each rod, but to me it was worth it. It is very difficult to get shapes like this on a manual machine.







A bit of a closer shot showing the hand profiling, just needs fine dressing and polishing. To me, a definite improvement from the original idea.







A rear shot of a rough assembled engine. 







This is a side shot of the engine with a rough cut conrod awaiting profiling. It is now I really would have liked to have the crank webs shaped in the teardrop style, but it is a bit late in the game for that to happen.






Once the flywheels are back and fitted, I can just knock up the correct spacers and retaining plugs for all the pivot points. The reason I won't do it before is that I will try to match them to the flywheel spinner.
BTW, the engines aren't in final shine yet, that only takes a couple of minutes.

John


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## Divided He ad (May 13, 2008)

Looking good John  The recipients should be very, very happy  

I wish I'd known those type of calc's when I started.... would have saved me hours of testing! 
Still, I enjoyed myself doing that too 



Ralph.





P.S. I got my polishing kit today ;D So tomorrow I see what I can do!! 
Then engine turning! ;D


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## Bogstandard (May 13, 2008)

Ralph,

Remember, it is the soap that does the polishing, not the wheel. So in the beginning you might need to push a bit harder, so use a harder wheel, on final buff it is just a matter of holding it in the path of the soft flaps. Rather than up and down or side to side, try diagonal, it helps to alleviate the gouges on the not too smooth surfaces. On the last floppy mop, only ever use the chalk supplied.

For the engine turning, do your calculations first. If you need to know, just ask away.

Also, as I said about those bits I gave you, no abrasive needed and WD40 or a bit of paraffin if using them on ali, or WD40 on anything else. It is only there as a lubricant and to stop the end clogging up.

BTW Ralph, remember us talking at the show about a small lathe for small bits, and I told you it wasn't needed. Here is a part I turned up using my full sized four jaw. A big one will always do a little but not the other way around.






The crankpin is 1mm diameter.

John


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## Divided He ad (May 13, 2008)

Thank you John. Duly noted and will concentrate!
That crank.... I'm going to have to practice before I can make one like that! I assume the engine it belongs to is not too big either?

I'm going out to my shop now to flat my baseplate ready for the polishing tomorrow, I'm quite excited about the whole deal! ;D

I'll post the results in 'work in progress ' When I have them to a satisfactory level 


Ralph.


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## mklotz (May 13, 2008)

I've never built a finger engine. However, with my burgeoning supply of grandchildren (I'm due my third grandson come September), I suppose I'll have to do four (got a granddaughter too).

I think I'll try for something a bit different. Go up to Hollywood and get one of those realistic fake hands they use in the movies, cut off the forefinger and mount it on a small lever actuator powered by a proper steam engine. Somehow the idea of a steam driven "finger engine" appeals to me.


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## cfellows (May 13, 2008)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> I think I'll try for something a bit different. Go up to Hollywood and get one of those realistic fake hands they use in the movies, cut off the forefinger and mount it on a small lever actuator powered by a proper steam engine. Somehow the idea of a steam driven "finger engine" appeals to me.



How about a solenoid powered finger engine. That should be pretty easy to do.

Chuck


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## Bogstandard (May 13, 2008)

Come on Marv, play the game.

Are you trying to scare your grandkids to death?

John


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## gilessim (May 14, 2008)

John ,I reckon that Pat Jennings is your next door neighbor and that it's his hand in the photo, and the crankpin is really 5mm diameter!

Giles


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## Bogstandard (May 14, 2008)

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=148.0


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## Divided He ad (May 14, 2008)

Ahh yes! I recall seeing that vid' on you tube a while back when I was investigating tiny engines... Still thought your hands were massive!! :big:

I still want to build one of that size... I just want too much, finger engine, turbine, stirling, tiny...I just want to build them all!!! ;D

Oh well... soon, very soon I will be I'm sure 


Ralph.


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## Bogstandard (May 15, 2008)

Ralph,

You will get there, just take it steady and learn from your mistakes.

Back on track with the finger engine now.

I am now realising it was fate that stopped me from finishing these engines in my self imposed deadline. I now have plenty of time as one will be sent thru the post, and John S 1st is making a day of it and coming to pick up his engine, and getting a bit of set up training while he is here.

This extra time has really allowed me to give some of the bits a slight modification.
The flywheels got back very late last night, and instantly caused concern, the polished bits were all scratched, so on re-polishing I will be chasing my tail again, with having the blasted area needing cleaning again etc etc. During the day, with me pulling my hair out what to do, the better half just casually said, 'well why not just paint the middle bit to match the highlights'. Don't you just hate it when they come up with a perfect solution. Two hand painted coats done, two to do. 

I am just trying out some very good quality man made fibre brushes. WOW, much better than shaving the old tomcat. I always thought, over the years, that they would never be able to match the sable and badger hair brushes. These are definitely on par or better than either, and they wash out and keep shape perfectly, and not one single broken or dropped hair. Got to get me some more of these.

Anyway, to carry on with the conrods.


Basic shaping has been finished, and while I was at it, I fitted a brass bearing sleeve in the little end. So this is the rough.








Now to the smooth.
These took over two hours to profile and polish, using a variety of cutting soaps and wheels. But now I am truly happy with the way they are.






Like all handmade bits, these are not an exact match with each other, but who cares, all engines will be truly individual.

John


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## CrewCab (May 15, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Don't you just hate it when they come up with a perfect solution.



 ;D  ;D ............... yup, but it's good they take an interest 

In my case though I think it's so I can spend less time playing in my little hideaway and get on with important things like ...... "decorating" 

John, those conrods are a work of art, many thanks for sharing all your tips and experience, it is really appreciated, I just try and store them away for now and hope to use them in the future.

The polishing kits sound interesting, do you have a link to a supplier?

atb

Dave


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## Divided He ad (May 15, 2008)

Thank you John, I will carry on plodding along. Oh and speaking of mistakes to learn from... Those polishing mops don't half grab the workpiece!!!  
Luckily no injuries to me just a reshape and re-polishing required! (good job you polish with the mop pulling the part away from you !) 
Lesson learned, I plan to carry on tomorrow.( press lighter and grip harder!!) 

Hopefully I can get a shine like the one you have on them there con' rods ;D 
It is nice when you don't have to work to a deadline, means you can make alterations and adjustments that suit you when you think of them. This is the way I work best a little here, a little there. Stress is for work not my workshop  

Can't wait to see the finished article.. But that doesn't mean you have to rush it 


Ralph.


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## CrewCab (May 15, 2008)

Divided He ad  said:
			
		

> Stress is for work not my workshop



Ralph ................. good sentiment mate 

Perhaps we should have Tee Shirts or Plaque's made up, I'm sure they will be an instant hit ;D

Dave


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## Bogstandard (May 16, 2008)

Dave,

No thanks needed, I do it for myself as well, its called therapy. Keeps the single brain cell agile.

Ralph,

Any sign of the thumb manicure yet?
If you get your finish done by hand first, there should be no need to push hard. But if doing a lot of polishing on one part, you have to get asbestos fingers. What I do is get a few parts together, when one starts to get warm, swap to another part, that way you don't have to stop for cool down. I don't think you got a large felt pad with your kit, but they are the worst, the part heats up in seconds.

John


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## Bogstandard (May 16, 2008)

Not much to show tonight, just one pic.


Managed to get four hand painted coats on before I had enough coverage. Red is always the worst, very little pigment cover in it. But they have ended up exactly as expected, garish, with a hint of sleeze. I would have preferred to have just the blasted centres, but fate said otherwise. Next time I will make some nylon blanking plates.






The cranks have been cut to length and the threaded rod inserts put in. When a spinner is put on either end, it will hold the crank, spacers, bearings and flywheel all as one unit, with no endfloat. 
I am still turning over in my mind whether to give the cranks a going over, they are now starting to look a bit bulky for what I want it them to look like.

I have had one assembled very basically, and wonder of wonders, it worked rather well. So I now know I am not flogging a dead horse, thank goodness for that, I am not normally into flagellation, necrophilia and beastiality.

Decisions, decisions, my brain hurts.

John


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## zeusrekning (May 16, 2008)

John everthing looks great but the flywheels are excellent. I kind of agree about the cranks but what are you thinking? I can't seem to think of anything myself. They people who recieve these are very lucky indeed. :bow: :bow: :bow:
Tim


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## Divided He ad (May 16, 2008)

No polished nails yet John! I've mostly been polishing the base plate and the fingers have been out of the way 
I also have tried the engine turning... Jury is out! I will post my progress soon, you can tell me where I went wrong then! :-\

As for your engine... Those flywheels (imo) are mighty fine ;D I think they will look great spinning round.

I don't know what to say about your crank's Except they look good to me! They are substantial and don't look out of place on your mock ups, But then that said I would be happy to create one crank to that quality ( haven't tried yet!) I'm sure whatever you do it will look good and as long as you like the end result that is all that matters ;D

Glad to hear about what your not into!!  :big:

Ralph.


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## Bogstandard (May 16, 2008)

Tim and Ralph,

Thanks for the good comments, I will be hacking the cranks at first light.



> They are substantial



Ralph, that is exactly what I was on about. They need to be made to look a lot less 'mechanical', more of flowing.

Got the shape in my head, so away we go.

John


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## bretk (May 16, 2008)

John,

 Those flywheels are nothing short of spectacular!  :bow: Are you sure you didn't design cars in the 50's ? :big: :big: :big:

-Bret


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## Bogstandard (May 17, 2008)

Bret,
How old do you think I am, I was only a youngster then.

After a couple of quick appointments with Mr RT and Mrs Buff, the cranks have finally ended up resembling what I wanted them to look like. Not so overpowering and beefy.






The excess weight looks like they could just end up as quirky spokes in a custom flywheel. So into the recycle box for later.

Now cooking on gas, so if I don't have too many visitors today, things should progress rather rapidly.

Now happy John


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## zeusrekning (May 17, 2008)

Now that is it!!! I had to look at the old picture , night and day difference. 
Tim


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## Bogstandard (May 17, 2008)

Glad you like the result Tim.

When I first started on the engine, the old ones were correct, but as it grew, the shape needed to change. I think it is called progress, but in my case regression.

Just making six spinners/clamps at the moment.

John


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## cfellows (May 17, 2008)

I like where you're you're going with this, John. Can't wait to see the finished product!

Chuck


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## Bogstandard (May 17, 2008)

As you can see Chuck,

I very rarely have plans to work to, just an idea, and make and modify as I go along. It really is a lovely way to work, no hassles keeping as per plans, and you don't know what you will finish up with until the very end. Most times very close to what the original vision was, but in this case, totally different.

I think you must work the same sort of way.

John


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## Bogstandard (May 18, 2008)

Had a bit of a slack day today, but as you can see by the pic, they are getting very close.

I have just six small bearings/spinners to make for the bottom pivot on the fingery thing and that will be it. They will then be stripped, cleaned, final polish and lubed/assembled, plus final tweaks to make sure they work as expected.






You can also see why I am having to redo my shop, I am running out of space to do my calculations.

Have I enjoyed doing this build, you betcha!!
Almost 50% of the engine is hand worked.
I haven't enjoyed myself so much in years. A few of the older members will remember that I was basically working one handed for the last four years, and I never expected to get the mobility back in my right arm/hand. But now, even though it is not full movement, it has allowed me to do a lot of handwork that I thought was lost forever.
The joy that it has given me to find I hadn't 'lost my touch' is overwhelming.

I can't wait to get the new shop up and running. Then we will see if I can make decent engines or not. First will be the Liney radial, then I am preparing for an onslaught of the Stirling engine. Materials, ideas and plans are all in place. Just time and effort required.

I do hope that this series of posts has shown that with a little bit of effort and practice, a small mundane item like a finger engine, can be made to look different.

A 'studio' final pic soon. No vid, you have all seen how a finger engine works.

John


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## Cedge (May 18, 2008)

Blingstandard
You've got more going on there than a redneck carnival...LOL. I've enjoyed watching these engines come together, nearly as much as you have. Glad to hear the arm is beginning to earn its keep again. 

I can understand the joy of the freedom you have working from mental plans, as opposed to those on paper. It takes some additional thinking, sometimes, but there are no restrictions on where you go or how you finish up when you get there. My current project has been much like that. There have been some very interesting detours. 

I'm awaiting the Halo project with bait on my breath...(grin).

Steve


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## CrewCab (May 18, 2008)

Final Polish  ;D  ............ blimey John, your never going to get rid of the "King of Bling" title ........... how on earth are you going to get them to shine any more ............ 

Honestly though it's been a great read and very informative, please keep sharing, the tips n' tricks are invaluable 

Dave


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## Divided He ad (May 18, 2008)

I've got to say John, I do like the new look with the re-worked cranks ;D 

I am still in stunned at how fast you create your engines... Just the polishing on my little effort has taken me hours!
And you've made three!!! And they're bigger!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: (one for each engine ;D ) I think your title is safe  

Are you sure you don't want to make just a little video?  
I know we all know how they run but it's nice to see them going ;D I'll wait for a good couple of close up pics either way ;D



Ralph.


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## Bogstandard (May 18, 2008)

Dave,

I have noticed a few minor 'blemishes' on the face of some of the bits I reworked by hand, just a wavy surface, but needs to be put right. Also, with ali, the better shine you can get on it the longer the shine will last, especially if you give it a dose of furniture polish as well.

Ralph,

I honestly think you are trying too hard on the polishing thing. I made six spinners by eye and file, drilled and tapped them, plus a polish in about an hour. It is just the preplanning and prep that makes it easy. You will find, as you get more experience, things will just come naturally and you won't have to work at it. When eventually you come to see me, I will knock something up, and show you just the way how I do things. I think you will be surprised at how easy a lot of the things I do are, and honestly, a total beginner CAN do it.

John


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## Kactiguy (May 18, 2008)

Beautiful engines. I've enjoyed watching the build. My son and I have started a couple finger engines, but it has been slow. Your engine is just the motivation I need to keep us moving along.


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## Bogstandard (May 19, 2008)

K,

Nice to hear it has given you a bit of inspiration to carry on, keep it up.

John


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## Bogstandard (May 19, 2008)

Three to go.

One for a friend, who always offers to get me things from the states when he is away on the cruise liners.







One for John S 1st, for being a very loyal but challenging apprentice, who has come on in leaps and bounds in the last year, and deserves a reward for all his effort and hard work. He has learned to machine to a very respectable standard, purely by looking at this site and instruction by email.







This one is for my better half. I have never made her anything from my workshop, and she enjoyed playing with the last couple I made. I decided she deserved one for herself, if only for putting up with me for the last 37 years.






All engines now finished. Just a repair to do on my lathe before it goes. I will be doing a small post on this, just in case someone else has a worn, droop snoot tailstock. Then it is downtime while my shop is brought up to date.

I hope you have enjoyed this little walk thru how I design and make things, it is slightly different from making from plans. But still very enjoyable to do.

John


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## cfellows (May 19, 2008)

Very nice work, as usual, John. Truly an inspiration to all.

Chuck


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## gilessim (May 19, 2008)

Really fantastic work there John, your engines are getting more and more stylized ,you need to take a pic of one of those with a pretty girl in a 1920s dress and little matching hat, one finger working the engine (double entendre not intended!) and a Martini, complete with olive on cocktail stick, in the other hand!

Well done!....Giles


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## Circlip (May 19, 2008)

I think the recipient of the red one will have it either as the centrepiece of his "steam board" or he will be working his way round the triangle where he works with it John. Superb effort despite "The muck" slowing you down. 
  Regads Me.


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## Divided He ad (May 19, 2008)

Sweet freedom of choice! 

Now there's a trio of home made style ;D I specifically like the blue one... It pops out at me more than the other colours  ! 

Your going to be twiddling your thumbs waiting to get your shop re-filled... well except for the re-working of floor space, storage, benches.....etc!! ;D 

Can't wait to see what your new super machines will help you achive. That Halo looks very interesting, should be fun ;D


Ralph.


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## Bogstandard (May 21, 2008)

Thanks lads for all the compliments.

Just a note to total beginners. 

If you are really stuck on what to make, a finger engine is ideal. It gives a varied range of machining exercises without being too difficult. You will also find, that if it is just left about the house, both visitors and friends can't stop having a go. So it will never be forgotten about, like other little engines on the 'first build' list.

They don't have to be a 'blingy' or stylised as mine are, just a basic one is great fun to build and display.

For a bit more fun, does anyone want to take up a bit of a challenge.

How about a blast finger engine competition.

It relies on your total truthfullness, but only on the accounting of time. You can stop and start at any time, but all making time is to be added up, so 10 mins here, 30 mins there, to allow for things like glue drying time, meals etc. It will be up to you to tally and truthfully submit your time.

There are a couple of rules, the first is that you are not allowed either lathe or miller (except for use as a drill) in the build, and the second is that somewhere on the machine, you must use at least part of a round wire coathanger, the third is of course is that it must be fully operational, and tweaking time is to be included.

Anything else goes. So you are allowed to get materials together and the time starts on the first cut.

If you are interested, we will start a new thread for it. To start say some time next week and all machines to be submitted by one week later.

Judging will be done by a combination of time taken and how good it looks (but not too good), and will be done by membership poll over one week.

So drop your heavy projects and see what you can really do in a couple of hours.

John


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## Divided He ad (May 21, 2008)

John... Start a new thread on this! 

It is a good idea and should not get lost in this post! 

(thats not to say I can do it... but it's worth a blast!!  ;D )


Ralph.


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## Bogstandard (May 31, 2008)

Just an update on my previously made finger engines.

My better half was complaining that her delicate fingers got tired after ten minutes of pumping treadle (I don't know why, she has the muscles of a Russian shot putter).

Anyway to cut a long story short, last night I got back into my shop before the machinery all goes, and did a mod on the flywheel. Taking heed from what I had learned from my tree engine (get as much mass on the outside), I machined some pockets around the edge, and stuck some slugs of 1/2" brass into them, just like they use on the balance wheels of expensive clocks and watches.






This pic shows the result, the flywheel now needs re polishing, but that is only a five minute job.
Once up to speed it runs like one of my turbines. Now she is complaining it goes too fast, can't please some people.

John


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## shred (May 31, 2008)

Looks more 'nautical' now too..


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## Bogstandard (May 31, 2008)

I modded the second one this morning, still awaiting delivery to its master, who I think is still at sea.
Both now polished.

I am starting to get withdrawal symptoms now that I can't machine at will.

John


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## Divided He ad (May 31, 2008)

I wasn't sure what it reminded me of till I read Shred's comment... A ships wheel ;D 

Very apt for your mariner friend 

Look nice now they're polished John.

Patience John... Soon the new machines will keep you busy for hours in set up alone!! You'll have to find some more twigs and go whittling!! ;D



Ralph.


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## lazylathe (Aug 10, 2011)

Hi John,

Missed this thread somehow and caught up with it on the other thread where i mentioned a clutch
type mechanism.

Those have to be the sweetest finger engines i have ever seen!!! th_confused0052
I am sure the recipients are gobsmacked with them!!

Andrew


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## Blogwitch (Aug 10, 2011)

Goodness me Andrew, there has been a lot of water under the bridge since I made those, but the wife and grandson still get the one that was kept for an hours good clean fun, seeing how long they can keep it going.


John


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