# Can you shorten a scale on a DRO kit.



## rcmadness (Aug 21, 2010)

Can the scales on this DRO be shortened without damaging the kit.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-x...oice if I want a decent DRO for and X3 mill.


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## Blogwitch (Aug 21, 2010)

Sorry to disappoint you, no, they can't be shortened. 

But on the other hand, almost anything can be achieved, depends how skilled and lucky you are.

I have actually had one apart, and just looking at it, I wouldn't even think of attempting to do it.

You could just buy an extra shorter scale, as they look to be the standard electrical plug fitting, but that would all add to the cost.


Bogs


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## Jasonb (Aug 21, 2010)

> I really don't want to have to modify anything but it looks like i do not have choice if I want a decent DRO for and X3 mill.



There are plenty of other suppliers that do similar scales and readouts and you can buy whatever length scales you need. I've recently ditched the calliper type scales on my X3 and bought scales to suit the travel, 370mm and 170mm, Also gor a three axis readout and will add a z scale shortly.

The grizzley looks very similar to the ones done by DRO Pros.
http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Milling_Machine_Digital_Readout.htm#DRO_PROS_2M

Jason


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## Cedge (Aug 21, 2010)

try here.... http://cgi.ebay.com/3-axis-DRO-Axis...l-Seig-X3-/270586896852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0
 I own it and wouldn't part with it for love nor money. Fits perfectly on the X3 and SX3. No affiliation, but one very satisfied customer, as are the others on the board who use it.

Steve


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## rcmadness (Aug 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. I did some figuring and I believe I am going to buy the standard X3 and put a DROPRO 3 axis DRO on it. From what I can tell it will do exactly what I want it to. I really don't need the swivel head, tapping button or for that matter any of the little do dads they add on to the Super X3 if I have a 3 axis dro.

I the DROPRO folks even have a video of the exact set up I just listed.

Thanks Again.

By the way JasonB what length z scale are you going to use?


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## macona (Aug 22, 2010)

Yes, they can be shortened. I have done it with heidenhain and anilam scales.


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## Blogwitch (Aug 22, 2010)

Macona,

Can you give us a brief description of what to do and look out for, as I for one would like to shorten one of mine, ideally by 20mm.

When I saw that very shiny and precision glass scale staring at me, not to mention the rollers and read head, I just gently slid it back inside the case and forgot about ever trying to do it, and I am the sort of person who will give most things a go, but to lose 120 squid for a silly mistake, was not a gamble I was willing to take at that time.

Bogs


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## Jasonb (Aug 22, 2010)

rcmadness  said:
			
		

> By the way JasonB what length z scale are you going to use?



It will likely be either 570mm or 620mm I've not really had a good look to see how to mount one yet. This is quite a bit longer than the travel but the extra length will mean its easier to mount at the top & bottom of the column.

I also went for the slim scales as they are quite a bit smaller than standard as there is not as much room on an X3 as there is on the bigger machines, the covers for these scales are worth getting as its easier to mount the alloy extrusion of the cover and then just screw the scale to it. This is the UK supplier I used

http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/index.php?target=categories&category_id=3

Jason


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## JohnS (Aug 22, 2010)

Warco sell a vernier scale and remote digital read out. The vernier scale can be cut to the required length.

http://www.warco.co.uk/Digital-scale-with-attached-remote-readout-32C4E98774.aspx

John-Som


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## rcmadness (Aug 22, 2010)

*Jasonb*, I put an note on my DRO print out to get the slim line scales (thanks to you), I was wondering which i should get. Hopefully I will be ordering the DRO by the end of the week. 1. I am waiting on a check to get to me so I can pay for all this 2. I will have to make sure Grizzly has the mill.

*Macona*, you have Bogstandard on the edge of his seat. It appears you have most defiantly peaked his interest as well as mine.

*John-Som*- I have the vernier scale readouts like you are describing on my mini-mill and they work very well so far. However my wife has asked me to get whatever I want on this piece of equipment and a flashy LED readout really trips my trigger. (she has seen me show great frustration at my Mini-Mill) Yes I plan to keep her and no I wont have her talk to your wife. ;D


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## Jasonb (Aug 22, 2010)

Having just ditch the vernier type scales with remote readouts in favour of a proper DRO you will not be disappointed, the functions that the unit has make life so much easier and I've not had cause to use them all yet.

Jason


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## Blogwitch (Aug 22, 2010)

RC,

You are quite correct, I made a statement which I thought was reasonable, but I did leave a get out clause.



> But on the other hand, almost anything can be achieved, depends how skilled and lucky you are.



Knowing quite well that there was most probably someone who had taken the risk.

Now Macona has the answer somewhere, I would not only like to modify my own glass scale if there is not too much risk involved, but modify my brain cells with the correct information, so that in the future, I will be able to give an answer of YES it can be done, DO THIS ...................., BUT..............................., and don't blame me if it doesn't work afterwards.


Bogs


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## rcmadness (Aug 22, 2010)

Bogstandard- I hope you do not feel "I called you out" with my "edge of his seat" statement. I was simply trying to say you would be anxiously awaiting his method of reducing the length of a glass scale. As would I too would like to enhance my brain cell activity on the subject. I really liked the option the vernier type scales offered by simply cutting them to fit.


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## TroyO (Aug 22, 2010)

I'm not sure how glass scales work... but what about a wet saw? Or even like they snap laboratory glass tubes, score and strike sharply?


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## Blogwitch (Aug 22, 2010)

RC, 

Certainly not. You have nothing to apologise for at all.

I too am looking forwards to an answer.

I went the vernier scale route on my old mill/drill, but over the course of a couple of years trying to keep it going, I had spent more than the cost of a glass slide system, even by trying all sorts to keep the nasties away. 
But it is like everything else, not everyone has the means to lay out large wads of cash for an expensive system, and the vernier system does do a good job, within it's limitations. If the manufacturers would just look for a way to make them more swarf and moisture tolerant, then they would be absolutely great.

Troy,

The bit I was worried about was not the mechanical side of things, but actually cutting the glass scale. The surface finish looked sort of 'clean room technology', and I was scared to death that even a tiny bit of dust or a fingerprint on the laser etched surface would put it out of action for good.

Bogs


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## rcmadness (Aug 22, 2010)

Bogs, I just ran across this and you might find it enteresting.
bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthrea...utting glass scales with a diamond saw blade.


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## macona (Aug 22, 2010)

The anilam scales were very easy to cut down. Take off the end caps, pull out the rubber strips. The glass scale on these is held in with a long piece of nitrile rubber. Pull the rubber out and the glass will come out. Make note which side the engraving is on. Cut aluminum frame to length and machine end to like the old one was. Use something like a carbide scribe and score the glass and cut it. Put the glass back in its track. Stretch rubber cord and put it in its slot. When you let go it expands and holds the scale in place. Slide in seals and cut all the rubber to length. Install reader and put the end back on.

The heidenhain scale was not so easy. The scale is glued in place. But I found I could make a rather clean cut through the whole thing, glass and all, with the bandsaw. Imagine that. Blade seems OK. Still a new bandsaw blade is cheaper than buying a new shorter scale.

I would say a DRO is a must have on a lathe. It makes everything soo much faster and repeatable.


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## Blogwitch (Aug 22, 2010)

RC & Macona,

Many thanks for the info, it has given me a little more confidence to have a go at it when the time comes.

I gather there was no problem with a bit of dust or fingerprints.

I do have a glass grinding machine, so cleaning up the cut end wouldn't be a problem.



> I would say a DRO is a must have on a lathe. It makes everything soo much faster and repeatable.



I thoroughly agree, I actually have four axis on mine, both lathe and mill, and I can bang out dozens of identical bits in no time, plus it is just a matter of taking a mic measurement and feeding what I want off into the DRO and the job is done to perfection. I don't look at the feed handles any more to put a cut on.

Bogs


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## doubletop (Aug 23, 2010)

Cedge  said:
			
		

> _try here.... http://cgi.ebay.com/3-axis-DRO-Axis...l-Seig-X3-/270586896852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0
> I own it and wouldn't part with it for love nor money. Fits perfectly on the X3 and SX3. No affiliation, but one very satisfied customer, as are the others on the board who use it._



Thanks for this Steve. I was going to start a thread "which DRO kit for the X3". And also ask why you'd need 3 axis when the Super x3 has a small Z axis readout already. The link demonstrates that as well, the main Z axis is metered allowing 3D machining.

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Aug 23, 2010)

Pete,

I call mine Z1 for the main up/down, and Z2 for the quill.

I use Z1 for putting the cuts on, and Z2 only for drilling. The reason being, Z1 is more rigid than Z2.

I hope that didn't send you to sleep, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's


John


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## macona (Aug 23, 2010)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> RC & Macona,
> 
> Many thanks for the info, it has given me a little more confidence to have a go at it when the time comes.
> 
> ...



Dust and fingerprints are an issue. Anilam recommends to clean the scale with windex and lint free wipes if I remember correctly.


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## hudmut (Aug 23, 2010)

http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg203/hudmut/X3 mill Mods/?start=0

Im a bit late on picking this up but the link will show you how i did mine and i all so have a dro on the quill. 

I all so have the DRO wired in to the machine as well save a plug at the wall.


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## Blogwitch (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks for that Macona, I have both, or equivalent of.


Bogs


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## Jasonb (Aug 24, 2010)

I Hudmut not seen you about for a while, used your photos when I did my DRO

And what about your little secret, have you got rid of the Fowler?

Jason


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## hudmut (Aug 24, 2010)

Hi Jason

Iv been around i don't like to post to much as my typing lets me down to much. The Fowler is still coming along I'm on the valve at the moment. But as we speak its all sat in a few box's in the spare room but don't worry it will get done i doute ill ever use it much if at all probably end up in a box up in the room like all my other engines.

Iv just spent the last year on my CNC mill as well as helping a friend with his full size B6 (foremost). That's why i have my littel secret its a stand in until i have a full size to drive once more . I don't think a true friend should sell his engine until his new one is ready for the road do you ;D

Oh and I'm glad my DRO pic's was of some use

Stu


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## rcmadness (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok guys, if you are interested this is the response I got from DROPROS when I asked them about a special kit for the X3. I mentioned that I was considering a Grizzly DRO. So far I agree with there customer service comment, they have been great getting back to me.

From DROPROS.


First, thanks for taking the time to write. Our DRO's are ES-15's, which are 2 generations beyond what Grizzly sells (they sell the ES-8). Additionally, we have a much better inventory and we would like to think better customer service.

Yes, we know the X3 quite well. The "issue" behind the confusion of which scales to get is twofold. First, the X3 has a design flaw which "should" be fixed prior to mounting a DRO. Second, just measuring travel doesn't always guarantee a good fit. In any case, here are the scales you need:

X axis - 350
Y axis - 150
Z axis - 450

These are regular GS-10's, not SlimLine. You don't need / want SlimLine, they have 1 set of seals, not 2 protecting them like regular scales.

Let me explain the X3 issues:

1st issue: What happens is if you crank the table to the extreme left, the table will actually come off of the dove tail and will continue until the underside of the handwheel mechanism hits the base of the machine. This is not good for the machine, and you really need to affix a stop on the right rear of the table to limit the overtravel. You can see one of our customers has done this on our installation page:

http://www.dropros.com/Digital_Readout_DRO_Installation.htm

http://web5.streamhoster.com/hvp/DROPROS/AncellXStop.jpg[img] (sorry I cannot get he image to post, RC)

Note the block on the left 'hanging' down. It's meant to keep the table from coming off the dove tail. Of course, if you measure travel without it, you'll think you need a longer scale, which would lead to the confusion you mentioned in your email.

2nd issue: We recommend the 450 scale for the Z axis. The travel is much less than this scale will travel. But due to how it mounts, it's better to go with the 450.

We used to have an X3 kit, but we don't anymore. I'm attaching pictures of what it looked like. All brackets were made / modified from the 3 axis kit brackets.

If I were you, I would study the pics I send you, plus the two X3 install pics we have on our website. Between the 3 sets of pics, I'll bet you could do an install even better than any of us came up with!


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