# Cretor's engine for my Dad



## bearcar1 (Apr 10, 2010)

I was going through some old files and ran across these photos of an engine I made up for my Dad's 81st birthday. I had forgotten about this engine as after his passing I had wrapped it up and stored it on a top shelf of the cabinet in the shop. Only a small handful of folks have seen this engine as Dad was rather private about such things but I thought that all of you would enjoy a peek. This engine was built from the casting set available from Cole's Power Models and took me between eight and nine months to finish. It runs a treat on compressed air (only once) that was to test it out before the final take apart, clean, and painting. The flywheel is 7" diameter with a pressed on SS rim and the bore and stroke I believe is 1.125"x2.000" IIRC. There is a plaque screwed to the bottom of the base that denotes the occasion and the builders signature (mine). Just like the loving memory of my Dad so shall this engine live on. Enjoy.
BC1
Jim


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## putputman (Apr 10, 2010)

bearcar1, what a beautiful engine. I can only imagine how proud and happy your father was when you gave him that engine. What a great memory to have.


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## rake60 (Apr 10, 2010)

WOW!

Beautiful engine Jim!

Rick


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## Maryak (Apr 10, 2010)

Wonderful engine and a wonderful tribute to your father. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## 4156df (Apr 10, 2010)

> I had forgotten about this engine



I don't see how that would be possible! It's beautiful. No doubt that your Dad was proud of it.

Dennis


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## Quickj (Apr 10, 2010)

Beautiful engine Jim.
It belongs on the mantle for all to see, not wrapped up and put on a shelf in a cupboard.


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## gbritnell (Apr 10, 2010)

Hi Jim, that is one quality build. The finishing gold painting accents really set it off. It's nice to have something like this as remembrance.
gbritnell


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## Philjoe5 (Apr 10, 2010)

That's a beautiful engine Jim and what a great gift for your father.  :bow: 

Cheers,
Phil


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## zeeprogrammer (Apr 11, 2010)

Beautiful Jim.
I like the detail and the spokes.
What is that one valve? It looks porcelain. How was that made?


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## bearcar1 (Apr 11, 2010)

Arv, Rick, Bob, Dennis, Jim, George, Phil, and Zee', Thank you all for your complimenting words. Dad would have been proud to know that others have such an appreciation of this engine. I know that he was tickled beyond words when I presented it to him, although he never was much a man for words, I could tell it in his eyes and his actions. I should re-phrase my previous statement about having forgotten about this engine completely although that is partially true. What I intended to convey was that I had wrapped it up and placed it in a safe place out of the way to prevent it from getting damaged. There was quite a bit of life's chaos occurring in the time leading up to his passing, and I did not want to risk any harm befalling it until such time that a more fitting place of honor could be arranged. I am just now getting the fortitude to sort through all what remains of Dad's life and am again reacquainting myself with this old friend and fond memory. I am glad that you all have enjoyed it as well. I thank you all once again. :bow:

Best regards

BC1
Jim


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## bearcar1 (Apr 11, 2010)

Zeep', To address your questions, the valve is made from brass and has been painted Grampian Grey, I wanted to give some color in that area and as the rest of the engine was already RED, I explored other colors and finally settled upon that. The highlights on the flywheel (except the rim stripe) as well as all of the base trim was hand painted. Actually twice because I was not satisfied with the first attempt and stripped it off, prepped it once again, and was successful on the second go. One of the hardest parts about building the engine that I recall was bending the nameplate casting on the front of the base. It was a bit pricey and there was no room for any errors so I finally wound up making a wooden dummy blank of the curvature of the base, layed out the dimensions etc. on it and proceeded to clamp and bend the nameplate to shape. As an aside, the boss that was cast next to where it says serial number was blank and I used numbered metal stamps to stamp Dad's birth date in that location.

BC1
Jim


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## Troutsqueezer (Apr 12, 2010)

Absolutely beautiful engine Jim! Did it take that long to build because of the challenge or was it more like a free time constraint thing?

I've got several more years before retirement so I plan on stocking up on a number of casting kits while the wife still gives me an allowance. ;D I think I'll go looking for this one.

-T


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## bearcar1 (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks T', to answer your questions, it was a little of both plus a fear of messing up. At that time, I did not have my shop setup to my satisfaction and it wasn't until later did I acquire my SB lathe, so it was extremely slow going for quite some time. Then there was also the planning and scheming of the plumbing to get worked out. Then the detailing etc., the list goes on and on. Working only a few short hours here and there in the evenings when I could also added to the build duration time. Thanks for asking, BTW, as far as I know these castings and drawings are still available from Cole's Power Models but may I suggest that you call them first to check on if they actually have them in stock before placing an order for them. I also believe there to be one other vendor but do not remember the name. :-[ I remembered seeing one of these at the carnival when I was a small lad and recall the clown operating the crank that turned the peanut barrel. ;D

BC1
Jim


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## Tad Wicks (Apr 12, 2010)

Well done, I bet your dad was beaming that day. It was mentioned above,and I agree, it should be displayed, make a glass and brass case to protect it, and show it off. Nicely done; Tad Wicks


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## Deanofid (Apr 12, 2010)

What a beautiful engine. Such a fine gift.

Dean


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## skeeter (Apr 17, 2010)

That is a museum quality engine BC1 :bow: :bow: I hope you display it in your collection.I bet your dad was very proud of that. Thanks for showing it. The red and gold was the best choice.
Skeeter ;D


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## bearcar1 (Apr 18, 2010)

Thank you Tad, Dean, and Skeet'. Yes, I believe that Dad was very proud of this engine. During the course of the build there were many nights spent wondering if I would ever see it to completion in time for his b'day or if I would be able to actually finish it at all for that matter. Through perseverance and determination I was able to present it to him on time. He taught me a great deal of what I know about machine work and this was a way of showing him that I had paid attention to him. The engine in essence is a reflection of his work, attention to detail and love for steam power. One day I will build a proper display case, and I do like the brass trim idea, and yes, I can think of one or two museums that perhaps would be interested in obtaining it for display. Thank all of you for appreciating what is to me a truly priceless memory of my Dad. :bow:

BC1
Jim


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## PTsideshow (Apr 18, 2010)

Not to put a downer on this thread, but this new practice . Of Museums cleaning out storage or having an attic sale is becoming more common.
Not to dissuade you from donating, anything thing to a museum. But any more you have to be very careful, as most have statements to the effect that you give all rights to the item up. And they have the right to sell the item, with out recourse form the family.

As more and more families are finding that the collections or items of older family members are not bringing the money, or even interest that they once did. Some museums are working with certain dealers for a quick turn around for operating expenses. At a fraction of what the item is worth.

Witness the large auction that the Henry Ford had on their steam engine and collectibles they sold most of the donations and extra's including some pieces that were on display since Henry built the place.

One of the statements was, that they don't need one of every steam tractor built, just one as an example of that type. As we move further away from when people had the experience of the items. Or know somebody that had the items.

The items that interest them are related to their lives, Another statement,from a local small museum curator was what is culturally relevant to the generations is changing. 

The other thing is they have no where to store the items, and people what to buy the items, and we need the money. He said that they offer to return the item if the family doesn't want it sold.

So anybody thinking of donating should find out what the museums policy is and get it in writing, as some of the curators tend to move around quite a bit. you want the "MUSEUMS" policy in writing not the curators!

After all at the FORD museum the money makers have been the IMAX theater, Thomas the Tank engine, they are back again this year, and the traveling show on chocolate. 

So with such a fine item, hopefully somebody in the family will treasure it, for years and generations to come.

I'm adding this to the post edit: As I was thumbing thru the local fish wrapper they call a newspaper. There is a story about a classic car auction, that is happening in the area. 


			
				 Free Press said:
			
		

> Classic car auction to aid Chrysler museum



 It is next weekend, 





> Twenty of the 250 cars that will be auctioned off come from the Walter P Chrysler Museum Foundation which is selling these cars to raise money for the museum. 1904 Overland,1904 Rambler1918 Nash truck,1964 Rambler Coupe



Well don't now if Fiat raised the rent as the museum is in the head quarters building, I do know that GM sold a bunch of their concept and cars form their corporate collection last year.

www.rmauctions.com


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## bearcar1 (Apr 19, 2010)

Well now, thank you PT, for that auction flyer update. Unfortunately I doubt very seriously if I will be attending what is most likely to be a VERY  high dollar fund raising event.(although I would be interested in that 1904 Overland) I understand what it is you are conveying and I am certain that quite a few unsuspecting families as well as individuals have fallen victim to such practices, but the institutions that I have in mind are genre specific, that is they specialize and focus upon a certain interest group in their activities and displays. Also, I would never merely donate this engine to either of them but have it "on loan" to them with my legal binding ownership having been put into contractual form. Thereby I still own the piece and have the right to withdraw it from public display after written notification has been established or returned to me should the museum find it no longer requires the piece to be on display.

BC1
Jim


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## cobra428 (Apr 19, 2010)

Jim, That's Gorgeous :bow:

Tony


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## bearcar1 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you Tony. 

BC1
Jim


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## skeeter (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi, BC1. That is sad to hear about the ford museum. I have been there several times and love the place. I have been to the science and industry museum in chicago many times. They have got rid of a lot of the old displays and put in new ones. I think they ruined the place besides charging an arm and a leg to visit there. I think that instead of the current group in DC trying to fix the world and give away something for nothing. They build larger museums to display all that is in the back rooms!! . I got a back rooms tour quite by accident at the ford museum I will always remember. I bet old henry is spinning in his grave over that one.


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## shoprat (Apr 21, 2010)

hi jim that is a beautiful piece of work and a real nice thing you did for your dad.was he a machinist by trade or was it a hobby?also a question for you or anyone else,what would an engine like that have been used for in its full
scale size and what period of time did they start to dissapear from industries? thanks

shoprat

jeff


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## bearcar1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Hello Jeff, thank you for your kind words of appreciation. Yes, my father was in fact a blacksmith/machinist/welder. He lived through the transition from horse to steam and finally to electric power, the industrial revolution as a whole. Here is a link that will give a history of the Cretor's company. This engine is in fact full scale and was used in the smaller carts and wagons and most were never used for anything other than vendor cart usage, although I suppose it is possible some of them found their way into home workshops for single machine usage. 

www.wyandotpopcornmus.com/cretors_history.html

BC1
Jim


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## Maryak (Apr 21, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Having worked in our states maritime museum for 15 years before my retirement, much of what has been said here about the collections policy is correct. 

Despite any museum having a collections policy its is very much in the hands of the current curator as to how it is interpreted and actioned. Things do go missing and not just small things. In my own experience we managed to lose a whole 20ft boat   It was only when the family of the donator made enquiries as to where it was and why it was not on display that the curators realised they could not find it. I suspect it was dropped and broken during one of several storage relocations and the bits quietly binned by those responsible.

This brings me to the second point about what's on display. Most museums have on display at any one time some 10% of the collection the rest being in some other facility. This facility can range from a fully atomosphere controlled environment to an old wharf shed covered in pigeon droppings. Again what goes where is very much in the hands of the current curators and their interpretation of what is most important and what is of lesser importance.

Governments are very good at providing capital money to establish arts facilities. The kudos to ministers and senior public servants is front page news. After this they are extremely poor at providing money for the ongoing upkeep and maintenance of the facility and the artifacts it holds.

It grieves me to say this but my experience is......... if you really really value something of either historical or personal significance don't give it to a museum.   Further IMHO technology museums should not be controlled by Arts Departments they have little interest and no understanding of such collections.

Jim, I hope this helps you reach an informed decision.

Best Regards
Bob


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