# Webster Engine



## 65arboc (Jan 10, 2016)

Just finished the Webster and it won't run on it's own but first question I need answered is which way the flywheel rotates looking at the Points side, cw or ccw ? It turns free and has decent compression. My small timing gear has double set screws so I can adjust the timing.. I have had it firing very well running it with a drill in the cw direction but I think it should run ccw.

Thanks for any help.

Jim in Pa


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## 65arboc (Jan 10, 2016)

No one wants to help? Simple question.


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## GailInNM (Jan 10, 2016)

I don't have a Webster set of drawings convenient at the moment so this will be a general answer.
If you rotate the flywheel in the direction that you want the engine to run, the exhaust valve should start to open about 20 to 30° of crankshaft rotation before you reach bottom dead center. Continuing to rotate the flywheel the exhaust valve should be fully closed shortly after reaching the top dead center.
Gail in NM


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## GailInNM (Jan 10, 2016)

I pulled up my set of Webster drawings to double check my memory.

Everything is symmetrical on the Webster so it will run in either direction equally well. Your preference as to the direction of rotation. As the Webster is a low-speed engine cam timing will not be extremely critical. I checked the Webster cam drawing and the flanks are 125° of crankshaft rotation apart. For starters, I would set the cam for the exhaust opening starting at 25° before bottom dead center and an fully closed at 10° after top dead center. In practice, you won't have quite the full 125° of operation because of the necessary few degrees of tappet clearance. Just split the difference and you will be fine.

The ignition cam will also have to be set depending on your rotation preference. For starters I would just set the cam so the points start to open about 5° before top dead center on the compression stroke. Really, on a low-speed engine all you really need to do is make sure that you are slightly before top dead center and not after top dead center.

These are not optimized settings but are settings that should make the engine run okay. After you have the the engine running satisfactorily you can tweak these settings but I think you will find that you can vary quite a bit from them without making a significant difference in performance. Low-speed engines with atmospheric valves are not very demanding of the settings.

Gail in NM


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## 65arboc (Jan 11, 2016)

Gail,

  That is a great way to answer my question, very clear. I suspected it would run either direction but wasn't sure. Las night I got i firing ccw on every 4th stroke like it should but only with the drill attached. It still will not keep running on it's own. Using Coleman fuel btw. Thank you very much for your reply.

Jim


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## GailInNM (Jan 11, 2016)

Jim,
it sounds like you're getting close. At this point you can be fairly sure that both your valve and ignition timing are set close enough that the engine should run.

The most common problem, in my opinion, that beginners make with atmospheric intake valves is that the spring tension on the intake valve is too high. It is quite critical. When the tension is too high the intake valve does not open soon enough and the cylinder does not get a full charge of fuel air mixture. When this happens the power stroke is too weak to get the engine to run continuously.

I looked at the Webster drawings again and did a rough calculation of where the spring should be set. With the intake valve held in closed position and the spring retaining pin removed the top of the valve keeper should be about the top of the hole for the spring retaining pin in the valve stem or no more than 0.010 inch above it. With it set correctly you should be able to set the piston at top dead center where the exhaust valve is just closing and rotate the flywheel by hand fairly rapidly and if you're in a quiet environment hear the intake valve opening on the intake stroke. Since I'm an old man I can say this, but it should sound like an old man passing gas as the intake valve will vibrate. The valve will only move a few thousandths of an inch so only rarely will you be able to see it move.

If this doesn't cure the problem, then you probably have some compression leakage in either the piston cylinder fit or the valve seats. It's fairly easy to determine which and I will be glad to walk you through it if necessary.

Gail in NM


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## 65arboc (Jan 12, 2016)

Hi Gail,


  I really appreciate all the advice you have taken the time to help me. I played around with it last nite until I was ready to throw it in the trash. It wouldn't run. At the last moment I closed the air valve for the vapor carb and saw fuel pop out the filler tube. I think my intake valve is leaking by even tho I have decent compression. Today I am going to lap the valves again and also check the spring tension of the intake valve. I do see the intake valve working up and down as I try to start it. I will let you know if I get it started today. Thanks again for your help.

Jim


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## Swifty (Jan 12, 2016)

Jim, with a new engine, a lot of starting problems are due too leaking valves. Preserving with the drill and getting the engine to pop will often help with bedding in the valves. There are some members that actually hook up an electric motor to turn the engine for a while to help with bedding in, I have never done this, I just keep using the drill for a while.

Paul.


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## 65arboc (Jan 12, 2016)

I lapped the intake valve and seat like a mirror today and it still wont run. Picked up an O-ring for the piston today. Maybe more compression is needed. I really didn't want to ring it but I'm at wits end of why it won't run Everything seems right. Maybe I should stick to steam engines, the last 2 both run nice.


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## 65arboc (Jan 12, 2016)

Paul,

Thanks, I've lost track of how many times I've charged my drill!


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 12, 2016)

65arboc said:


> I lapped the intake valve and seat like a mirror today and it still wont run.



The mirror look is not a gauge to valve seating.:wall:
Take a pencil LEAD and mark your valve seat and and valve guide
assemble them and slowly rotate by hand " 2/3 turn is plenty.
then take your valve out and you should be able to see a nice
small CONTINUOUS LINE in the middle of your valve seat AND 
valve face. If not Keep lapping.:fan:
Or use a vacuum pump "hand one" attache it to your valve cage
put your valve in the hole and apply vacuum It SHOULD NOT LEAK.
good luck


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## Mechanicboy (Jan 12, 2016)

The lapped valve and valve seat surface will be dull, no blank. Under running-in the engine will improve fit between valve and valve seat. Rotate the valve in both ways with lapping paste applied and check the valve is in full contact with valve seat ---> use vacuum + oil to spot there is no oil sucket into between valve/valve seat.


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## 65arboc (Jan 12, 2016)

canadianhorsepower said:


> The mirror look is not a gauge to valve seating.:wall:
> Take a pencil LEAD and mark your valve seat and and valve guide
> assemble them and slowly rotate by hand " 2/3 turn is plenty.
> then take your valve out and you should be able to see a nice
> ...


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## chrispare (Jan 12, 2016)

Put regular gas in it it'll run mint I bet. 
I have a hit n miss that just will not run on Coleman fuel even if I start it with regular gas and and switch.


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## 10K Pete (Jan 12, 2016)

I seem to recall that in the process of getting a Tiny IC (Putt Putt Man?)
going that regular gas was needed instead of white gas.....

Pete


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 13, 2016)

[QUOTE I am getting combustion because the cylinder and head get real hot after running the battery down on the drill and I can smell the burned coleman fuel.:[/QUOTE]

if that's the case I would bump the timing quite a bit.
somehow if you have to much advance it will kick, so you know
you have to much. many people believe that all same model engine 
need the same timing and that's wrong.
depending of your scavenging  you might nrrd more or less advance
good luck


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 13, 2016)

I feel your pain. When you have done everything you can and the engine still won't run, it makes you kinda crazy. Been there. done that. Everyone is giving you good advice. You do need a ring on that piston. My first choice is a 1/16" cross section Viton o-ring. The groove for it in the piston should be .057" to .059" deep and .093" wide (the width of a standard parting-off tool), about 3/16" down from the top of the piston. Lap the valve with 600 grit lapping past. The contact area of the valve and seat should be very narrow----.015" to .020" is all it needs. More contact area is NOT better. The valve shouldn't be too tight in it's guide. This will let the valve move around a very very small amount to settle itself concentric with the valve seat. All mating surfaces should have a gasket. I have never been able to machine mating surfaces to such a high finish that they will seal without a gasket. The spring on the long rocker arm seldom gives the action that you hope it would. I recommend fitting a small compression spring under the end of the rocker arm closest to the cam to make certain that it really does follow the cam. If you are turning the engine clockwise, then the exhaust valve should just be starting (as in just being touched by) the rocker arm at about 1/8" before bottom dead center on the power stroke. Ignition timing, as a starting point, should be set to give a spark at exactly top dead center. You can always advance or retard it a little after the engine is actually for a while. The gas tank, at it's fullest level, should be slightly below the air-horn of the carburetor, not above it.  If none of this helps, send an email to [email protected] with your phone number and I will call and try to talk you through it.---Brian Rupnow


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## 65arboc (Jan 14, 2016)

I'd like to thank everyone for their help, especially Brian. I am going to go over everything tonight step by step and see what may be wrong. I think the spring under the exhaust valve may be the answer as the lever may be bouncing off the cam at times. That could be the reason why it fires sometimes and not sometimes. I'm also putting a ring on the piston. Maybe this thing won't end up in the trash after all


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 16, 2016)

So---We are anxiously waiting to hear your results-------Brian


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## 65arboc (Jan 17, 2016)

Sorry,

Some other things got in the way for now.


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## 65arboc (Jan 19, 2016)

Ok, I'm back at it. Had to make a new piston as I cut the ring groove too deep in the original one. I always seem to go to far with my cuts:wall:So four hours later it is done with the proper groove depth and ready to drill for the wrist pin. This is where I always have trouble getting the 3/16" reamed hole in the exact placement and true through the piston. I have a good v block and a very accurate mini drill press but I can't figure out how to drill the hole exactly 90 degrees of the milled out area inside the piston. Brian, can you explain how this is done or anybody else please.  


Thanks,

Jim


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## canadianhorsepower (Jan 19, 2016)

65arboc said:


> This is where I always have trouble getting the 3/16" reamed hole in the exact placement and true through the piston. I have a good v block and a very accurate mini drill press but I can't figure out how to drill the hole exactly 90 degrees.
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim



this should help you
good luck


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 19, 2016)

65arboc---I covered that exact thing in my ongoing thread about my 2 cylinder i.c. engine. You can start by looking there.--However, the information there is probably too late to be of any use to you now. So---the piston you currently have has a slot where the connecting rod small end fits into, right. Mill a piece of aluminum that is a "snug" fit into the slot, and make it long enough that it extends out beyond the piston skirt about 1". Now you have a "witness surface" to set your level on, at 90 degrees to the long axis of the piston.. Clamp the piston in the v-block, set the v-block on the surface of your mill or drill press, loosen the clamp off just enough to rotate the piston with your fingers until the level reads, well---level. Then retighten the clamp and drill the hole.---Brian


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## Charles Lamont (Jan 19, 2016)

65arboc said:


> I can't figure out how to drill the hole exactly 90 degrees of the milled out area inside the piston



Do it the other way round? I make the gudgeon pin hole (drilled, bored, & reamed) and the set up in the milling machine using a long pin through the hole to line it up for milling the recess. I have hastily put some photos up here:
http://www.charleslamont.me.uk/Seagull/pistons.html


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## 65arboc (Jan 19, 2016)

Brian Rupnow said:


> 65arboc---I covered that exact thing in my ongoing thread about my 2 cylinder i.c. engine. You can start by looking there.--However, the information there is probably too late to be of any use to you now. So---the piston you currently have has a slot where the connecting rod small end fits into, right. Mill a piece of aluminum that is a "snug" fit into the slot, and make it long enough that it extends out beyond the piston skirt about 1". Now you have a "witness surface" to set your level on, at 90 degrees to the long axis of the piston.. Clamp the piston in the v-block, set the v-block on the surface of your mill or drill press, loosen the clamp off just enough to rotate the piston with your fingers until the level reads, well---level. Then retighten the clamp and drill the hole.---Brian


 
Thanks Brian, my problem is I don't have clamping v-blocks but your method is excellent.


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## 65arboc (Jan 20, 2016)

I took Brian's advice and milled a piece to fit in the piston. Now I just need to get a v-block with a clamping device. I work part time at a hi end machine shop so maybe I can borrow one. I'll be back.

Jim


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## 65arboc (Jan 21, 2016)

Made a new piston and grooved it for an o-ring, put it back together and it ran first start up. After a while of running it even started with just a flip of the flywheel. I am so excited as I have been working on this for so long I almost gave up. The answer was not enough compression. It would fire with the drill running it but not on it's own. I took a video but don't know how to upload it so you guys can't say no vid, no proof. Thank you everyone who gave me encouargement to get this running. You are a great bunch. Now maybe I can get back to the Kerzel hit -miss and get it running. I suspect the problem there is also compression. I'm Stoked!!!

Jimwoohoo1woohoo1woohoo1woohoo1


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## GailInNM (Jan 21, 2016)

congratulations Jim,
Thm:Thm:Thm:
It's a great feeling on the first successful run of an engine.

Now you know what it's supposed to feel like when you turn the engine over my hand the Kerzel will go much easier. Nothing like a little experience as to how it should feel to aid the troubleshooting.

If you have troubles posting the video, I or many others will be glad to walk you through it.

Gail in NM


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## 10K Pete (Jan 21, 2016)

Jim, that's great news! I'm looking forward to doing that myself, hopefully
this year.

Great work! Looking forward to your Kerzel build log!!

th_wav

Pete


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 22, 2016)

Jim---wonderful!!! now you need to get in contact with Simister in Australia.--he has just finished a Webster, and is starting to build the Kerzel.---To post a video, go to Youtube and start a free account. They will let you upload video's and you can post the link here.---Brian


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## bmac2 (Jan 22, 2016)

Great stuff Jim ;D
Congratulations on a runner! Cant wait for the video. Thm:


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## 65arboc (Jan 23, 2016)

I can't seem to get the video on youtube. Need some help please.

Thanks


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 23, 2016)

First take a video. Download the video to a place you can find on your computer. Open Youtube and register as a user, by creating an "account" (it's free). Go to "my channel". Find the button that says "upload". When you click this button it will ask you to direct it to the video you have saved. (Thats why you must know where you stored it on your computer) Go to it and double click the icon. this will start your upload to youtube. It will also have a couple of blanks where you can type in what the video is about. Your upload can take up to 15 minutes. when it is finished uploading, the "thumbnal" photohraph will fill in and show the first image in your video. then click on "publish" This will start your video playing. While it is playing, right click on the address bar at the very top of your screen and when it turns blue, hold down the control button on your keyboard and press the letter c one time. You have now copied the link to your video.  Open the forum, go to your thread and post a message. Right click in the message you are typing and press down "control" on your keyboard and press the letter v one time. That will post the link.


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## 65arboc (Jan 23, 2016)

https://youtu.be/qZy9iycZqEQ

Thanks Brian, hope this works!


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## 65arboc (Jan 23, 2016)

yahoo, it works! What a great feeling to accomplish this! Thanks to everyone who helped.


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## 10K Pete (Jan 23, 2016)

And it runs very well! Excellent. Congratulations!! 

woohoo1

Pete


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 23, 2016)

And it's a lovely engine indeed!!! Congratulations.---Brian


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## Swifty (Jan 24, 2016)

Thought that this may help, saves opening up your link.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZy9iycZqEQ&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

Paul.


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## 65arboc (Jan 24, 2016)

Brian Rupnow said:


> And it's a lovely engine indeed!!! Congratulations.---Brian



Brian,

Thank you for your kind words but it's not as nice as I wanted it to be. I have messed with it so much that like me it has joint problems here and there but instead of stiffness it has the opposite! Also all I had for the base was a piece of scrap that someone practiced on the back with a CNC machine. Before I show it to anyone but you guys I'm going to refine it a bit. I've ordered a new base from Speedy and will probably make new side frames. About the only pieces I wont re-make are the cylinder and Head as I'm happy with them both.. I'll be back on here again after I get it all refined and "lovely" and it's joints repaired!

Jim


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## 65arboc (Jan 24, 2016)

Swifty said:


> Thought that this may help, saves opening up your link.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qZy9iycZqEQ&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Paul.



Thanks Paul but what do I do with it?


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 24, 2016)

65 Arboc--Don't worry--first engines are like first marriages. the first one is a learner, the second one is a keeper!!!


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## Swifty (Jan 24, 2016)

65arboc said:


> Thanks Paul but what do I do with it?



On my iPad it shows the actual start of the video straight away in the post instead of a link. If it's not working on everyone's like that, I will delete the post, could others let me know if they see the engine video in the post.

Paul.

Edit. I will post some screen captures later today to show you what I see.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 24, 2016)

Paul--The picture doesn't show up in Arboc's post, just the link. The picture does show up in your post.--Brian


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## Cogsy (Jan 24, 2016)

Swifty said:


> could others let me know if they see the engine video in the post.


 
Your post works for me Swifty but if there's an issue with some people it will because the link you posted has an 'm' at the front. This M denotes that it is a link to the YouTube mobile site rather than the main YouTube site. Some peoples' devices may not handle such a link.


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## Swifty (Jan 25, 2016)

Thanks Cogsy, I will check to see if it appears on my desktop. 

Paul.

EDIT. I checked on my desktop and the link worked well, however I re posted the link and there was a slight difference in the text. Should work OK now.


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## bmac2 (Jan 25, 2016)

65 now thats the happiest sound in the world, first IC running. Thm:Dont stress out about fit and finish its all part of the process, and if you have to make a new part it always goes faster than the first one. 
Where else can you have this much fun, and learn stuff at the same time? 
Thanks for posting


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## 65arboc (Jan 26, 2016)

BMAC2   Yes it's fun and I'm even into the big ones. I have restored 1 already and am working on another, a Hot Tube this time. I have learned a lot about modeling by tearing these full size engines apart! I'm thinking about buying the one in the picture.

Jim


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## bmac2 (Jan 26, 2016)

I want one! If only I had more room . . . . . I love those old stationary engines. I think thats why my Webster ended up looking the way it does.


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## 65arboc (Jan 27, 2016)

bmac2 said:


> I want one! If only I had more room . . . . . I love those old stationary engines. I think thats why my Webster ended up looking the way it does.



Looks like a cross between a Kerzel and a Webster. Any way beautiful jobth_wav. Did you make the fly wheels?


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## bmac2 (Jan 27, 2016)

Actually ya, there was a _VERY_ heavy Kerzel influence in my build. 
Flywheels had always been the bane of my existence. Other than small and solid they would wobble all over the place. I found a reference to a Philip Duclos article on manually machining curved spoke flywheels. If you want have a look see post 147 to 171 of the build (yep. 4 pages of flywheel ) (http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23224&page=15 ) Tried to get as much info down as I could but dont know if it makes any sense to anyone else. 

So. Any pick of your collection of 1:1 scale engines? Perhaps a video?


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## 65arboc (Jan 28, 2016)

bmac2 said:


> Actually ya, there was a _VERY_ heavy Kerzel influence in my build.
> Flywheels had always been the bane of my existence. Other than small and solid they would wobble all over the place. I found a reference to a Philip Duclos article on manually machining curved spoke flywheels. If you want have a look see post 147 to 171 of the build (yep. 4 pages of flywheel ) (http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23224&page=15 ) Tried to get as much info down as I could but dont know if it makes any sense to anyone else.
> 
> So. Any pick of your collection of 1:1 scale engines? Perhaps a video?



I think you'll like this. It's my first attempt at restoring old engines. This Economy was made in 1918. Cart is home made.

Jim 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPOxQ-7Vbq0[/ame]


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## 65arboc (Jan 31, 2016)

Guess no one wants to watchRestoring this Economy really helped me understand why my models wouldn't run.


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 31, 2016)

Arboc--I watched, and yes, it is a beautiful engine. I have built 3 or 4 hit and miss engines at model scale, and they are quite a fascinating concept in mechanical design. ---Brian


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## 65arboc (Jan 31, 2016)

Brian,

Thanks for the kind comment, they are amazingly simple also in 1:1. Not so simple to copy all the parts in miniature when your a novice like me. I did build the Kerzel but never got it to run because the flywheels were not heavy enough to carry the inertia. At present I am tearing down a Myrick 5 hp Hot Tube engine from 1946 and it has very heavy flywheels  Glad you liked the video.

Regards,
Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Jan 31, 2016)

Arboc--Your hot tube engine was manufactured the same year I was!!! It is difficult to build scale model hit and miss engines that truly hit and miss the way that the big ones do. It is possible, because I have seen it done, but not all applied physics scale in a linear manner. ---brian


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## 10K Pete (Jan 31, 2016)

Hot tubes have always fascinated me mostly 'cause I haven't really studied
how they work. I would be very interested in your re-build of one.

See, we do read your posts!! And your engine was made 2 years before me.

Pete


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## 65arboc (Jan 31, 2016)

Brian,

I was also born in 1946, December in fact so we are baby boomer buddies I guess!

Pete,

I'll take a few pics tonight and post them when I can. I just pulled the cylinder head off today. Almost too heavy for a 69 yo to be lifting but I find ways to do it.

I know I have a pic of when I brought it home so I'll post it also.

Jim

PS The Economy was made the year my dad was born-1918.


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## 65arboc (Jan 31, 2016)

Pete,

   Go to www.smokstak.com  There is a lot of information on hot tube engines and how they work and a lot more.

Jim


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## 10K Pete (Jan 31, 2016)

65arboc said:


> Pete,
> 
> Go to www.smokstak.com  There is a lot of information on hot tube engines and how they work and a lot more.
> 
> Jim



Great! Thanks, I'll check that out.

Pete


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## bmac2 (Jan 31, 2016)

Jim just got a chance to look at the 7 videos you have of that little beauty. I have to say if that is a first attempt it sure turned out nice. Looks great, sounds great and runs like a Swiss clock :bow:. Whenever I see videos of these small utility engines running I cant help but think of the profound effect they had on society, particularly in farming. Real portable power anywhere you needed it.


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## Coomba (Feb 2, 2016)

GailInNM said:


> I pulled up my set of Webster drawings to double check my memory.
> 
> Everything is symmetrical on the Webster so it will run in either direction equally well. Your preference as to the direction of rotation. As the Webster is a low-speed engine cam timing will not be extremely critical. I checked the Webster cam drawing and the flanks are 125° of crankshaft rotation apart. For starters, I would set the cam for the exhaust opening starting at 25° before bottom dead center and an fully closed at 10° after top dead center. In practice, you won't have quite the full 125° of operation because of the necessary few degrees of tappet clearance. Just split the difference and you will be fine.
> 
> ...


 

Hey Guys, I have been having trouble getting my Webster to run also. I think I have a lot less hair now then I did before I began. I was just about to post a help thread, then found this one. Maybe I found the answer here?
Gail in NM says the points should be opening at 5 degrees before top dead center. I have the points closing on the flat. I'm I setting them backwards?:wall:


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## GailInNM (Feb 2, 2016)

Coomba,
As you rotate the engine in the direction of normal operation the points will close significantly before you reach top dead center. This allows current to flow into the coil and energy is stored magnetically in the core of the coil. This is not where the spark occurs. As you continue to rotate the engine the points will open. This should be about 5° before top dead center. The magnetic field collapses in the core of the coil at this point and that is when the spark is generated.
Gail in NM


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## Coomba (Feb 2, 2016)

Thank you so much for that answer! I was under the ideal that the coil collapsed when the contact points closed. Is there a set value as to how wide the points need to be set open? I can't wait to give this a try. But yesterday I strained my back, so I,m a little laid up. I'm confident now that it will run. I will report back.


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 2, 2016)

A good value to use is .030" to .045" at full opening. This depends a lot on the configuration of your ignition cam. Opening more won't really hurt anything. Be sure you use a condenser with the points if you are using old style conventional ignition.


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## Coomba (Feb 8, 2016)

Today I got the chance to work on my Webster; I made the changes that were suggested. It did improve, but it still wont run.I know there must be ignition, I can hear it popping, the exhaust, cylinder and head get hot. The throttle arm is in about 25% open. When I close it down I can feel the engine kick back on the drill Im using to start it. I have adjusted the low speed mixture, and the idle screw, back and forth to their full range several times, using 1/4 turn increments. The carb. I'm using is a TRX Pro .15 . Also I did put a small amount of oil in the fuel. Suggestions please


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 9, 2016)

If you are certain of the ignition timing, and the valve timing, and you are turning it in the right direction, first try a lighter spring on the intake valve. If you have cast iron rings, or even if you are using a Viton ring, your engine probably is leaking compression at the valves. Put a pulley on your crankshaft, mount it on a bench, and drive it at about 600 rpm with a larger electric motor using a v-belt. Make sure that there is about a 2% oil mix with your fuel, turn the ignition on, open the carburetor wide open and turn on the electric motor and let it run for an hour, making sure you oil all friction points on your engine with a squirt oil can. If it fires at all, which is what you want, each time it fires will seat the valves better and better, until they begin to seal enough to boost the internal compression. If your ring or rings are cast iron, this "running in" will also help seat the rings to boost the compression. Ideally, if everything is set up correctly, your engine will begin to fire consistently right along with the electric motor eventually. If this doesn't work then you have to disassemble your engine and relap the valves. These engines simply will not start and keep running if the compression is too low due to leaky valves or piston rings.---Brian


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## Coomba (Feb 9, 2016)

Brian Rupnow said:


> If you are certain of the ignition timing, and the valve timing, and you are turning it in the right direction, first try a lighter spring on the intake valve. If you have cast iron rings, or even if you are using a Viton ring, your engine probably is leaking compression at the valves. Put a pulley on your crankshaft, mount it on a bench, and drive it at about 600 rpm with a larger electric motor using a v-belt. Make sure that there is about a 2% oil mix with your fuel, turn the ignition on, open the carburetor wide open and turn on the electric motor and let it run for an hour, making sure you oil all friction points on your engine with a squirt oil can. If it fires at all, which is what you want, each time it fires will seat the valves better and better, until they begin to seal enough to boost the internal compression. If your ring or rings are cast iron, this "running in" will also help seat the rings to boost the compression. Ideally, if everything is set up correctly, your engine will begin to fire consistently right along with the electric motor eventually. If this doesn't work then you have to disassemble your engine and relap the valves. These engines simply will not start and keep running if the compression is too low due to leaky valves or piston rings.---Brian


 
Brian 
I'll give that a try, and yes I do have cast iron rings. I'm looking at it facing the ignition cam and the points, turning in a clockwise rotation. And no at this point I'm not really sure of anything. I just have to assume that because I can hear it put, and things are getting hot, that it is timed correctly, maybe not. Would the amount of oil in the fuel be a concern? I mixed it 40-1. Is it normal to have some black liquid splash out from behind the piston? I was thinking that the compression was good because, when I was trying to start it, if I reduced the throttle setting I could feel the engine kick back.


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 9, 2016)

Your oil mix is okay.   Cast iron rings hardly ever seal enough right "out of the box". They should be "run in" using the method I described for one to two hours. If you want me to call you and discuss it, send your phone number and name to [email protected]. It doesn't cost me anything to call you.


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## 65arboc (Feb 9, 2016)

10K Pete said:


> Hot tubes have always fascinated me mostly 'cause I haven't really studied
> how they work. I would be very interested in your re-build of one.
> 
> See, we do read your posts!! And your engine was made 2 years before me.
> ...



Pete,

Some pics of the Myrick hot tube I'm restoring now. Has a 5-1/4" dia. piston!


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## 10K Pete (Feb 9, 2016)

I went off and read up on the hot tube thing. Most interesting!! Way before
spark plugs or fuels like gasoline. Natural gas and large displacements. Maintaining
the exact heat on the tube and the exact position of the heat line on the tube
was the big trick. All of which seemed to change with speed, load and fuel.
Wow, real hands on operation.

Your engine is a small one from what I was reading!! Please post pics as your
rebuild progresses.

Thanks,
Pete


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## 65arboc (Feb 10, 2016)

Pete,


First pic is cylinder head with carb, pushrod guide and governor weights all redone. I used ceramic disc brake caliper paint on the cylinder head. 

Second pic is the cylinder with governor hold up finger still attached, paint stripped.

Last pic is crankcase with original primer paint still inside case.

More later,

Jim


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## deverett (Feb 10, 2016)

Very interesting project - your Myrick rebuild.

As the subject matter has strayed away from the original Webster theme, would it be possible to put Myrick into a new thread?

No criticism intended.  Think positive - if someone wants to read about Myrick in the future, why would they look under Webster?

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## 65arboc (Feb 10, 2016)

deverett said:


> Very interesting project - your Myrick rebuild.
> 
> As the subject matter has strayed away from the original Webster theme, would it be possible to put Myrick into a new thread?
> 
> ...



I was only answering Petes request for more pics of the project. Move it to a new thread if you want. I don't know how. No criticism taken. Besides, I don't think there are many on here who ever heard of a Myrick so why would anyone type that in? I thought it may spur someone on to build a model of one but whatever.


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## deverett (Feb 11, 2016)

There is (or was) a member on this forum who went by the name of Myrickman, so I guess there are others who know about them.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## 10K Pete (Feb 11, 2016)

Ya know, having a thread for your hot tube would be a good idea, Jim. I don't
know what the title would be....
I'd love to see more posts as you work on that engine.

I'll see if I can get the attention of an Admin to set this up or move it or
whatever needs to happen..

Thanks,
Pete


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## 65arboc (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi Pete,

  This is a hot TUBE engine which is a little different than a hot bulb engine I believe. If someone wanted to build a scale model of one like I have I don't think it would be too difficult. It is a very simple design and needs no spark, mag or battery to run, just heat. I am no engineer but I would be happy to take measurements and pictures for any one who wanted to model this engine. It has a very simple governor system that holds the exhaust valve open when rpm gets too high. I may try to model it myself some day. We could call the thread: Model this Myrick?? or some thing like that.

Jim


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## 10K Pete (Feb 12, 2016)

Ooops. Yep it's a hot tube. That bulb just sneaked out of my fingers.
It might be kinda fun to build a model like that. Do you think the hot tube
concept would scale??

Pete


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 12, 2016)

I believe that Chuck Fellows tried to make a model hot tube engine and didn't have a lot of success with hot tube ignition on a small scale. I could be wrong about that, it was a while ago. He started with a horizontal "oil-field" pumping engine, which was a conversion from steam powered to gasoline powered. He eventually got it to run, but I think he ended up going with spark ignition.


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## Barnbikes (Feb 12, 2016)

My father tried to make a 3 hp Briggs into a hot air engine a couple years ago. It ran but just not consistently.


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## 65arboc (Feb 12, 2016)

Brian Rupnow said:


> I believe that Chuck Fellows tried to make a model hot tube engine and didn't have a lot of success with hot tube ignition on a small scale. I could be wrong about that, it was a while ago. He started with a horizontal "oil-field" pumping engine, which was a conversion from steam powered to gasoline powered. He eventually got it to run, but I think he ended up going with spark ignition.



Brian,

You are always looking for something different to build so here ya go. I think you could do it! There's a lot of info on Smokstak.com and I even found schematics of a couple different ones. It does involve propane to heat the tube red hot but I think with very small orifices to feed the hot tube and the engine it could be done. All it needs for the hot tube is a stainless tube capped at the top end and sealed into the cylinder head. You need a metal cylinder around the tube to protect it from drafts. The valving system is very similar to the webster. The more I talk about it the more I am tempted to try to build one! I may need more experience tho:

Jim


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## Brian Rupnow (Feb 12, 2016)

65Arboc--Go for it!!!  I'm up to my armpits in two stroke design ideas.---Brian


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