# #2 or is it #43?



## minerva (May 18, 2010)

Well guys,
after the excitement of running my first effort last week I was let down with a bump when on Friday morning last I noticed or rather felt a "crack" as I tightened the mill vise, on investigation the following revealed itself the main casting as can be seen appeared cracked







I removed the fixed jaw and this sorry state of repairs was revealed.






I got hold of Hugh at AMADEAL from whence the vise came on Saturday morning and explained the problem, he asked for a couple of photos showing the vice for onward transmission to the manufacturers and A replacement was duly dispatched. By 10.15 on Monday morning I was back in business, a brand new vice was received with no necessity to return the old unit! And object lesson in customer care/relations. Thank all at AMADEAL

onwards and upwards, in the short time I was vice-less I prepared for the start of my second build, that of Elmers #43 .
 Now I have no experience on using the mill table for clamping down workpieces (specifically plate for profiling) and wondered if this is the preferred way to go. My machine came with a fairly comprehensive clamping down set but the safety issues are obviously there and any thoughts would be welcome.

With the new vise in place #43 here I come!

The base and standard were marked out of 3/8 Aluminium plate







all holes centre drilled and drilled to the required sizes.
From here I milled the profile to both the standard and the base (using the vice) followed by the step on the standard.







All seemed fairly straightforward, finally I tapped the holes in the base of the standard and assembled it to the base for a trial fitting.







Thanks for looking


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## rake60 (May 18, 2010)

Looking good Terry!

Thanks for the mention of your experience with _*AMADEAL*_ as well.
It is always good to know who actually stands behind their products.

Rick


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## mklotz (May 18, 2010)

> Now I have no experience on using the mill table for clamping down workpieces (specifically plate for profiling) and wondered if this is the preferred way to go. My machine came with a fairly comprehensive clamping down set but the safety issues are obviously there and any thoughts would be welcome.



For smaller sized pieces, it's a matter of judgement. I only resort to the table if the part won't fit in the vise or fits but projects too far for safe or accurate machining.

Generalizing on the subject of clamping is difficult to do - every situation presents its own challenges and constraints. I started a thread as a repository for thoughts on this subject (among others)...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9318.msg101257#msg101257

You might want to glance at it for whatever wisdom you can find there and, obviously, ask questions about anything that puzzles or concerns you.


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## minerva (May 18, 2010)

Thanks Marv,
 I had already started on a reference bar as a fill in project at college but what with the vice problems it didn't get finished so it is languishing in the "to-do" box .
 I have at this point in time not developed a feel for the torque issues involved with this type of operation and hesitate to err on the side of over-tightening for fear of damaging the table. This "feel" problem also extends to using collets which I know from routing experience can be damaged from over tightening and of course the torque involved differs depending upon the "take-up" required to grip the different sized cutters within the collets range

Rick,
I am a great believer in credit where it's due. We are all to eager to criticize when things go wrong so it makes a pleasant change to be able to praise


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## Maryak (May 18, 2010)

Terry,

That broken bit looks like it would braze back together quite nicely then you will have 2 identical mill vices which can be a real advantage at times.

Best Regards
Bob


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## minerva (May 25, 2010)

Hi All
I've been away from the shop for a couple of days so apologies Bob for delay in replying.,

Bob I must admit to having similar thoughts, but I haven't found anyone locally that is willing to tackle the job, however I,m still looking

The learning curve continues!
I have made a start on the cylinder, milling a blank from an off-cut.  
The first picture shows the cylinder blank and the steam entry points milled and the inlet ports being drilled after centre drilling








I have made the conscious decision to mill the reverse lever from the solid rather than fabricate and solder as I feel it will give me a better learning experience as well as utilizing my newly completed RT. The lever was made from an off-cut of Aluminium which was blued and marked out. It was then mounted in the RT and using an 1/8 end mill the boss was milled out to a depth of 5/16
the slot for the de- tent was then milled out somewhat deeper than the boss.








 Excess material was then removed (sorry no pic) I then re blued and marked up the shape of the handle . The vice was then angled about the centre-line to achieve the required shape. At this point I realized that in order to turn the blank over I had to manufacture some sort of holding block
and the following photo shows the support blank with a hole drilled to accommodate the boss and two holes to take two short lengths of 3mm silver steel "dowels" located either end of the de-tent slot.








this next photo shows the blank duly turned over and mounted on the support block it was set in the vice and I was able to reduced the thickness to nearly finish dimensions.











 I finished the part with a judicious use of the piercing saw and file. and all that remains now is to polish and fit to the assembly this I hope to do tomorrow.
The exercise was certainly worthwhile, throwing up a requirement for modification of the RT and also a couple of improvements which I feel will be worthwhile

hopefully more on the morrow


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## SAM in LA (May 25, 2010)

Terry,

It looks like you are moving right along.

Perhaps you can try to silver solder/braze your spare vice.

SAM


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## hobby (May 25, 2010)

Nice work on your engine pieces.

I like your RT clamp, nice design for it.


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## minerva (May 25, 2010)

Hi Sam/Hobby
thanks for the comments,

Sam
I don't really have the facilities to obtain the amount of heat required to raise the mass of the vice body to the temperature that would be required. So I will take it to college on Thursday next and see if they have any ideas or more to the point the facilities to deal with it. ( I 'm not holding my breath!)
As to the RT, hobby, I can take no credit for the design it started out as a fairly simple project in MEW and a bit like "topsy" it just growed. As I alluded to above I will in the fullness of time make a couple of changes 1). To make the table action a little smoother and 2). Add stops to have some control over the angular movement of the table 

Regards 
TerryT


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## Troutsqueezer (May 25, 2010)

I like your RT clamp too. Need to make one of those.

-T


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## Deanofid (May 25, 2010)

Thanks for the new progress report, Terry. It looks like it's coming along well.
Compliments on your R/T, too. It sure appears to be nicely done.
I think I need one like yours to go along with my present unit. Looks very handy.
Again, nice work!

Dean


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## minerva (Jun 1, 2010)

Hi all,
suddenly realized that a picture of the component made in the last post didn't get posted so will add now.(sorry the focus seems a bit out)






Sad to say the project (Elmers # 43) has stalled! Not for any sensible reasons merely the availability of fixings here in the UK.
At the outset of the project I made the decision to acquire the requisite taps and dies as and when required
(to date the following are listed #3-48, #5-40, #6-32, #2-56) representing an outlay of about £30. OK a reasonable one time outlay you might say but the problem doesn't end here. Where in the UK does one obtain the relevant fixings to match the afore-mentioned sizes?
An alternate solution might be to substitute metric sizes but many of the sizes seem a little on the large side. or failing this machine all the fixings required (surely not!)
Any suggestions?

The vice problem was duly taken to college and the general consensus of opinion was that the detached piece was not large enough for a satisfactory brazed/welded solution.
I therefore opted for a mechanical solution. 
The main casting was milled back







in order that a steel insert might be bolted on. Two bolts were used an M8 into the meat of the base and an M6 at right angles into the ways. A slot for the key way was then milled into the top of the insert and the vice reassembled. Only time will tell whether the solution will be strong enough, but first impressions are good.


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## Deanofid (Jun 1, 2010)

The vise fix looks like it went well, Terry. 
There are a number of nice Brit folks here on the forum. Maybe one of them can tell you where
they find the uncommon fittings for your engine. Or, maybe you could make them from stock
material?

Dean


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## Maryak (Jun 1, 2010)

Terry,

Congratulations on the vise fix. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## minerva (Jun 1, 2010)

Hi Dean / Bob
thanks for the comments,
The vice repair seems to have worked out quite well all things considered. 
The ironic thing is if I could have gone back in time some thirty years or so my father would have welded it in his workshop at the drop of a hat! He was a consultant welder with B.O.C on of the pioneers in what was known as "Atomic welding" and plied his skills all round the world. I well remember in the early fifties almost every Sunday morning local bike enthusiasts outside his shop, clutching damaged crankcases and the like waiting for for his magic touch. He is still with us today alive and kicking at a 100 yrs. and when I mentioned it to him a couple of days ago he just laughed and said "sounds like a job for one of those computers you are always going on about". Needless to say I didn't have an answer!


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## SAM in LA (Jun 1, 2010)

Terry,

Good idea on how to fix your vice.

I'm looking forward to seeing more about your build.

SAM


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## Maryak (Jun 1, 2010)

Terry,

Really enjoyed your dad's sage comment :bow: He may be 100 but sounds like he's still batting at a full length.

Best Regards
Bob


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## minerva (Jul 16, 2010)

Hi Guys.
have been off line for a couple of weeks due to family probs but back in form again (I hope)
a couple of in progress shots the first showing my new "mezzanine" in use with the DTI clocking in the eccentric strap






the second is the eccentric strap being machined







and finally a shot of the completed engine. She runs WOOOO!
The only problem to rear its ugly head was a strange one, I had to make adjustment to the crank pin position to allow it to fully turn over implying that the con rod was too short, in spite of being particular with the measurements. now it runs I will make another for cosmetic purposes!






Sadly I still haven't the facility to provide a video but will post when I can find a cable to fit my Blackberry which I find has the capability to take videos but is without said cable!

Bob How did you know my Dad has always been a cricket fanatic?

Regards terry t


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## Deanofid (Jul 16, 2010)

Congrats on your build, Terry! It looks mighty fine.
Will be great to see the vid when you get the electronics rigged up.
Thanks for the thread!

Dean


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## ksouers (Jul 16, 2010)

Welcome back, Terry. I'd been wondering where you'd gone off to.

Looking forward to the video, as well. It looks mighty fine just sitting there.


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## arnoldb (Jul 16, 2010)

Well done Terry ! Thm:

And that's a VERY nice finish you got when boring the eccentric strap! :bow: 

Kind regards, Arnold


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## minerva (Jul 29, 2010)

Hi Guys
having finished my last build I have attempted to no avail to provide a video! My Blackberry phone takes said video (I can watch it to my hearts content on my phone) and having duly purchased a USB cable I find that RIM (who makes the Blackberry) doesn't provide synch support for Linux so back to square one. Ah well I will have to think again. I might even send myself an E mail with an attachment (who knows it might work!!).

This has left me in somewhat of a vacuum and I decided to use a ploy used on this forum,(I think by Trout) that of going over my two engine projects in order to see what could be learned from them. One of the first that had been noted after the drama of my milling vice breaking and subsequent repair, was the need I felt to provide a smaller vice for use when making smaller parts. And thus my next project was obvious. A visit to Deanofids excellent site 

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html

gave me all the info I needed and material assembled to make a start. Now I dont have access to large lumps of Aluminium as does Dean, but Steel of the correct size was readily available so I decided to go for broke and use that.
On starting the vice I realised that another piece of kit was missing - a fly cutter Sooooo.
Back to Deans site and using an off-cut of 1.1/2" steel bar an hour or so of machining 






remedied the omission as far as the holder was concerned. A further consultation of Bogs treatise on the fly-cutter grinding completed the exercise.
The first use was a revelation, a tool which didn't cost the earth and a finish that even I was satisfied with!!

I do not propose to give a blow by blow write up of the fabrication of the vice as Dean has already done a first class job here,
I will merely make a couple of comments:
Being a Metric shop (contradiction to follow) I used 6mm UNC stainless bolts that I had laying around but stuck to the basic sizes quoted on the drawing. One slight difference worked in my favour, the basic stock was somewhat thicker than Deans at just over an inch thick and rather than cut the block down to size I centred the holes in the block and merely skimmed top and bottom with my newly made fly-cutter.The knock on effect of this appears to negate the need to further relieve the pivot as it has been raised above the base of the unit. 
Instead of Making the relevant cutters to machine the button recess I used the only ball endmill I possess an Imperial 3/8" mill which is over fifty years old!! and the ball end pivot was manufacured using the ball cutter manufactured over a year ago one of the first project attempted after the purchase of my lathe.






As a "returnee" to the world of machining after some fifty odd years absence tooling up has been a slow pastime, given that I have not been in the position to throw money at the hobby this simple fact has meant that the normal work shop aids and fixtures have (where possible) been "shop-made" and I feel that the added practice has really stood me in good stead
At this moment in time I am having probs with photobucket so I will post further pics when I get over the problem

many Thanks Dean , Bogs

regards TerryT


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## Deanofid (Jul 29, 2010)

Terry, your flycutter looks like it's just the ticket, and the new vise is coming along great.
Thanks for sharing.
I'm another one who finds that many tools need to be made, instead of bought. Good things
to sharpen your skills and expand your shop fixings at the same time.

Thank you for the nice comments.

Dean


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## njl (Jul 30, 2010)

Minerva, interesting thread, your vice build is looking good.

Please can you give the link to Bogs's fly cutter grinding article, I wouldn't mind having a read of that too.

Thanks
Nick


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## minerva (Jul 30, 2010)

Hi all

Nick in answer to your request Bogs article may be found here:

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=850.msg6442#msg6442

for me it was a first time success hope you find it as useful as I did.

For some strange reason photobucket has been playing sillies with my machine, allowing me to only upload 1 photo at a time and even this on an inconsistent basis!
I have now however managed to upload the photo's that should have been attached to my last post
the first showing the milling operation on the movable jaw






and the second turning the pivot button using my ball turning tool - one of the first tools I made after purchasing my lathe.






the last pic shows the component parts of the vice ready for fitting and polishing


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## Deanofid (Jul 30, 2010)

It didn't take you long to get it finished up, Terry. Looking good!

Dean


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## njl (Jul 31, 2010)

Yep looks very nice.

Thanks for posting the link to Bogs's fly cutter grinding info.

Nick


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## arnoldb (Jul 31, 2010)

To echo - Yes it looks very good Terry Thm:

It's great to see you sharing your tool building!

Like Dean said, building one's own tooling is very rewarding - I find I use my own shop-built tools a lot, and each time there's a moment of "Darn, I'm glad I built this" ;D And the experience is invaluable; sometimes I pick up one of my earlier tools, and it now looks like an attempt by a beginner (which it was when I built it) - but the up-side is that back when I built it, it was the best I could do, so its still special to me now. Sort of adds "character" to the shop 

Kind regards, Arnold


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## minerva (Jul 31, 2010)

hi guys

thanks for looking and your comments, much appreciated.

Dean/Arnold - I spend most of my days in the shop nowadays so projects seem to move along quite quickly most of the time the progress being dictated by the availability of materials which is sometimes the limiting factor, a classic example being my little RT project which a bit like "Topsy" has "growed". I have started on a Tailstock to use with the RT as a sort of spin indexer. I have been working on it on and off for a month or so and it has proved to be quite challenge but I will get there in the end I feel sure, and when I do I will post the details. It feels kind of strange to make tools to make tools!
Tomorrow I will be assembling and polishing the vice and hopefully it will be pressed into service sometime next week

Nick
My pleasure and Bog's expertise

Regards
TerryT


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## minerva (Aug 1, 2010)

Well guys
as promised photo of one finished screw-less Vice
total cost £5 for stock from the local blacksmiths!
All I have to do now is make some fitting to attach it to the mill






I think I feel a boring bar coming on.
this is becoming addictive
Regards
Terry T


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## SAM in LA (Aug 1, 2010)

Terry,

That is one fine looking vice.

I'm thinking that I need to make one for myself.

Thanks for sharing.

SAM


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## ksouers (Aug 1, 2010)

Terry,
The vise looks great. Excellent craftsmanship, too.

Congratulations on a job well done.  :bow:


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## Deanofid (Aug 1, 2010)

First rate work, Terry!

Dean


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## joe d (Aug 1, 2010)

Terry

that's a fine bit of work. :bow: :bow: I try hard not to go to Dean's website, as it leaves me feeling guilty about all those projects I've not started..


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## minerva (Sep 11, 2010)

sam, kevin, dean, joe
may I first apologize profusely for appearing not to have acknowledged your welcome,positive comments but sad to say I have been out of action for the past month or so under the care of the medics, this has meant that I have been "off line" as it were but hopefully I should be back in the shop soon. (Monday next week if all goes well and I get my own way!).
I have spent most of the time reading but the time has really dragged. I am still in the middle of fitting up my D.R.O, the scales are fitted to both x & y axes and are working well. The next job is the manufacture of an audio electronic edge finder and some of the recent posts have been quite helpful.
however altho' the theory is fairly straightforward in practice there are a few "bugs" to iron out .
Once again many thanks to you all for your interest.
Kindest regards,
Terry


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## SAM in LA (Sep 11, 2010)

Terry,

Sorry to hear that you have been sidelined.

I wish you a speedy recovery.

SAM


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## Maryak (Sep 11, 2010)

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> Terry,
> 
> Sorry to hear that you have been sidelined.
> 
> ...



Me too.

Best Regards
Bob


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