# A two cylinder mill engine under construction



## Philjoe5 (Sep 30, 2008)

Ive built several versions of a single cylinder oscillating rotary valve steam engine to get my machining skills sharpened. Now Im building a two cylinder version of this engine. Im working off the set of plans for the one cylinder engine, making modifications as needed.

Heres a photo of one of the singles Ive built:







Through the magic of photo editing software Ive made a picture of the 2 cylinder engine Im building:






Basically Im going to take the cylinder  con rod  eccentric assemblies, duplicate them, and put them on the other side of the flywheel. The crank pins on the crankshaft will be offset by 90 degrees so the engine will self start. 

Now for my first progress report. All barstock engines start with a good lump of metal, in this case some 1144 free machining steel:






My trusty bandsaw is making 2 cylinder blocks here:






A little milling machine work and here are the blank cylinder blocks ready for some machining:






There are 2 passageways that are drilled at 30 degree angles from the cylinder bore to the valve port. I start these with an end mill to make a flat, then drill the passageway. This operation takes a light touch to keep the end mill or drill bit from wandering.






Several drilled holes and 56 tapped holes later, here are two cylinder blocks finished!






They are nearly identical. Using some cylinders from my parts box, Ive estimated theres about a 0.003 difference in bores between the 2 cylinders. Thats OK because the pistons will be machined to fit their individual bores. 

Ill try to post regularly to keep you all informed of my progress. At some point Ill need some advice so if you can help jump in.

Cheers,
Phil


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## BobWarfield (Oct 1, 2008)

This will be a fun one to follow. Off to a great start so far!

Thanks,

BW


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## ChooChooMike (Oct 1, 2008)

Yup, looking forward to seeing your build pix !!


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## Maryak (Oct 1, 2008)

Philjoe,

Great work, keep it up :bow:

Ain't castings expensive, Bar stock is the way to go ;D

Regards,

Bob


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 5, 2008)

This week I made the cylinder heads and started the crosshead guides. Ill post progress on the guides when theyre finished. If I'm posting progress in annoyingly small increments, let me know and I'll stretch 'em out.

In this pic Im using an edge finder to locate the center of the round workpiece, the cylinder head. 






Determine the radius, R of your workpiece and r, the radius of the nub of the edge finder. Then find the edge of the workpiece at about 3 oclock. Move the table of the mill a distance of R + r to the right. Then locate the edge of the workpiece at about 12 oclock by moving the table toward you. Now move the table away from you a distance of R + r. Once again find the edge at 3 o clock and so forth. The handwheel settings quickly converge to a constant and youve located the center of the workpiece. I forgot where I found this method but it works like a charm. If anyone reading this knows the correct name of this method please chime in.

Im drilling the mounting holes here. Once I find the center, a little trig gets me to each location for the next hole. A rotary table would also work here but I get consistently better results using this method.






This picture shows one cylinder head mounted and the inside view of the other one.






Nothing fancy with making these, although I have found several ways to screw them up in the past. So what youre seeing here is the result of my informal education.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Circlip (Oct 6, 2008)

Without trying to detract from your machining and setting skills Phil, newbies might find it easier to accurately drill a turned washer as a jig, to locate on the cap and trunk guide spigots and spot through on to them? If you've drilled it correctly, it gives you three less chances of making a mistake.
 Regards Ian.


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## chipstractor (Oct 6, 2008)

Phil,
 Neat project. Keep us posted.


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 6, 2008)

Good point Ian. In fact the designer of the original plans for this engine recommends that approach and it is common to see it. I use the trig approach simply because I remember sitting through the class when I was 16 years old and saying to myself "What the heck am I ever going to use this stuff for"? So with kindest regards to my former trig teacher, Mr Werner, I'd like to say, "Thanks for teaching me a very useful mathematical tool".

Cheers,
Phil


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## mklotz (Oct 6, 2008)

> Determine the radius, R of your workpiece and r, the radius of the nub of the edge finder. Then find the edge of the workpiece at about 3 oclock. Move the table of the mill a distance of R + r to the right. Then locate the edge of the workpiece at about 12 oclock by moving the table toward you. Now move the table away from you a distance of R + r. Once again find the edge at 3 o clock and so forth. The handwheel settings quickly converge to a constant and youve located the center of the workpiece. I forgot where I found this method but it works like a charm. If anyone reading this knows the correct name of this method please chime in.



It's called the "Osborne Maneuver".


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 14, 2008)

Im making the crosshead guides out of some aluminum bronze. I found a good supply of this material in 1 5/8 diameter a year ago. It machines nicely and adds a nice contrast to the steel components of the engine.

Here Im turning a section for one of the crosshead guides. Im using the dial indicator to tell me when to stop feeding to get the proper length.






Now Ive turned both crosshead guides and drilled/bored them to specs. I mounted them on the cylinder blocks to check for fit. Next I need to make access ports in the sides so I can oil the piston rod and adjust the packing gland nut if required. 






In the past Ive milled slots or drilled holes and I like the appearance of the drilled holes so Ill go with that approach here. I made a clamping device using a bar of aluminum to hold the workpiece down and the vise jaws are lightly clamped on the guide to prevent crushing the walls. Then the holes are drilled with centercutting end mills in steps up to ½.






The bores of the guides are lapped to remove any burrs from the drilling operation and to ensure they werent distorted in the vise (which would be easy to do with a wall thickness of 0.070). The crosshead guides were completed and are shown here along with the aluminum rod I used for a lap:






I made the valve port covers by taking a piece of brass turning it to the required diameter and drilling the 4 hole bolt pattern, before turning the end down that fits in the port. Then its a simple matter of turning down the stock to form the nub, slicing off the workpiece by parting off or using the bandsaw, then facing the flange side to its thickness of 0.125






The mounted valve ports are shown here. I also completed the cylinder heads, rod end for this side of the engine. These cylinder heads are also made of aluminum bronze. This photo shows both sides of the cylinder blocks with the two types of cylinder heads. It may not be clear, but the cylinder head on the rod end is tapped for ½-20 NF threads. Packing gland nuts will be made to fit.







Cheers,
Phil


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## Maryak (Oct 14, 2008)

Phil,

Your engine is coming along very nicely :bow:

Bronze on steel does give a very pleasing visual mix.

With the drilled holes for access to the gland nut etc. Do you make a special spanner to adjust the packing ???

Best Regards
Bob


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 14, 2008)

The packing gland "nut" is a turned down rod, threaded on one end to fit into the cylinder head. It has 6 holes (0.100" diameter) drilled radially at 60 degree intervals. To tighten the packing gland nut put a 0.1" diameter rod into one of the holes and tighten the nut. Heres a picture of a completed packing gland nut along with a fixture I use for the drilling operation. 






Cheers,
Phil


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## wareagle (Oct 14, 2008)

Phil, I have been watching this one unfold, and I have to say your are doing a good job! The engine is looking great. Many thanks for taking us along the journey!


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## Maryak (Oct 14, 2008)

Phil,

Now why didn't I think of that   - especially seeing as I recently made such a thing for a 1927 Chevy water pump gland :-[

Best Regards
Bob


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 20, 2008)

Ive completed both piston  piston rod  crosshead assemblies. Not without a few misadventures. I turned the first crosshead down a few thousandths too much, and that was for the crosshead guide with the smaller bore. Then while milling flats on the replacement crosshead, the workpiece shifted in the vise and buggered up the face, so that was scrap. Finally, getting back on the horse for the third and fourth times, I managed to finished them. The precision of these assemblies will directly influence the smoothness of the movement of the engine so Im as fussy as I can be.

The sequence for making these assemblies follows. First, the piston rods are cut roughly to size on the bandsaw, faced off on both ends to size.  Then each end is turned down to 0.186 for a length of about 0.4 for 10-32 threads. This is 2% less than the major diameter for this thread and has given me good results for this size. A tailstock dieholder is used to cut threads. As a result of some input from this board (Thanks Rick, Greenie) I reduced the diameter of the piston rod to the shoulder by about 0.010 past the last thread. This ensures the shoulder of the piston rod butts up against the crosshead and gives minimum runout of this assembly. When I chuck up the piston rod I get TIR < 0.003 on the piston end and < 0.006 on the crosshead end. 






The bronze pistons have 3 evenly spaced oil grooves that are 0.003 deep that are made with a 60 degree threading tool. I make each piston to fit one of the cylinder blocks since they differ in size by about 0.003. I had to make an aluminum lap for one of the cylinder blocks to get the piston to go all the way through the bore, but once lapped the piston moves smoothly through the bore. Completed assemblies shown here:






Using an old con rod I had I connected up the crosshead end of the engine with the piston attached. For both cylinder block assemblies movement is quite smooth. When I first built this engine I wondered about the function of the crosshead. If I take the piston rod assembly and run the piston back and forth through the bore I seem to get a lot of stuttering in the movement. Once the crosshead and guide are in place though, movement is slick. The function of the crosshead is to minimize tilting of the piston in the cylinder bore and it sure works.






Finally, I made the packing gland nuts. I have been leaving the packing empty on my previously built engines with no apparent ill effects. Ive only run on compressed air and perhaps that is why Ive gotten away with it. Here is a photo of the packing gland nut attached to one of the cylinder heads.






This subassembly of the engine takes all the patience I can muster, but it pays good dividends in the end. Whenever I finish work of this nature I tend to go on to a part that requires more bulk cutting like carving a flywheel or connecting rod from a chunk of steel. One of those is next.


Cheers,
Phil


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## Brass_Machine (Oct 20, 2008)

Looking good Phil!

When are you, me and Tin getting together for coffee?

Eric


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## Philjoe5 (Oct 20, 2008)

Eric,
For sure at Cabin Fever. Anything else coming up before that?

Cheers,
Phil


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## Philjoe5 (Nov 1, 2008)

This posting describes making the connecting rods. The con rods in the original plans have the big and little ends silver soldered to the rod. An admitted hack at silver soldering, Ive made the con rods one piece. This means Ill have a bit more milling to do. Time spent doing the extra milling could have been applied to a few lessons in silver soldering I suppose but I didnt want to spend the $ for a proper torch now. Heres where Im starting and also where I hope to end. The completed con rod is from a previous project.






A few hours later with most of the milling done I have two blank con rods.






Now I have some drilling and boring to do. Being a believer in fixtures BUT being frugal I try to make as few as possible. So Ive drilled and reamed the small end and drilled the big end here to fit the fixtues I have. Here Im rounding off the small end on one of the con rods using the rotary table. 






After taking the sharp edges off of the big ends on the rotary table its back to milling the angles. Im setting the milling angle in this picture. That angle block is removed before milling.






Finally theyre drilled and bored to full size of 0.700 ready for a bronze bushing. 






I use two set screws to hold the bushing in place. Are they necessary? Im not sure but theyre easier to put in now rather than later. The picture shows two cap screws inserted to emphasize the threaded holes.

Finally the bushings are made from a piece of ¾ bearing bronze turned to size, drilled, reamed and pressed in position on the con rods. Im parting one off here:






The con rods are finished.






Im nearly finished with the stuff that comes right off of the plans. Ive done some calculations for the baseplate and I think I have that figured out. In its final form it will be a plate of 3/8 aluminum but Im going to make a temporary one out of wood to check my math. I have lots of cheap wood but no cheap metal. More later. At this point if I make the bearing blocks and crankshaft I can finish out the design for the base. 

The crankshaft will have the webs pinned in place so I can remove the flywheel or eccentrics for maintenance. Ive made up a design for the webs based upon some other engines of this type Ive seen. More details to follow, but right now Im planning to pin the webs to the crankshaft with 6-32 set screws. A good idea?

I think Ill tackle the bearing blocks next.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Maryak (Nov 1, 2008)

Phil,

Looking good, I agree with you solid is better than silver soldered, or flanged ends and split bushes through bolted. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Philjoe5 (Nov 7, 2008)

Time for my weekly progress report. Bearing blocks are the topic of discussion this week.

Ive machined the bearing blocks using a two piece design. This is a modification from the plans that call for a split brass bearing attached to a steel base. The sequence of machining is: mill the steel base to dimensions, mill the brass bearing cap to dimensions, drill and tap the base, drill clearance holes in the brass cap and assemble the cap and base. Next, drill and ream the brass cap. Then mill excess off the brass cap and round it off. Pictures of each step will help you see what Im doing. Theres nothing fancy going on here but careful work ensures the crankshaft fits and rotates freely when this whole assembly is mounted on the baseplate.

A short digression here. I got into this hobby a few years ago and my immediate goal was to build some working engines, display them at some shows and meet some other folks. Initially I built some engines with fairly simple machining techniques. An example of one of my first steam engines is shown here. Note the rectangular bearing blocks. I hadnt really figured out how to round the tops according to the plans.






Now, a year later, Ive picked up a few tricks and have figured out how to do this. So while Im working on this engine, Im going to jazz up the bearing blocks on my older engine using the same fixture and machine setups as my present build.

Starting out I milled two pieces of steel and brass to dimensions. Then I tapped the steel bases on both sides. Topside for mounting the brass bearing caps, bottomside to mount the bearing blocks to the baseplate. Then I assembled caps to bases.






Next, comes the drilling operation for the crankshaft. I know there has been dialogue on this board about proper drill bit geometry for drilling brass but I dont have the means to have separate sets of drills for steel and brass. So, necessity being the mother of etc., I found I can drill a pilot hole on the mill/drill in brass using the quill feed. Then when drilling larger holes I switch to the fine feed (by handwheel). The ability of the brass to grab the drill bit is countered by the mass of the mill/drill head and the whole operation proceeds smoothly.






After reaming the ½ crankshaft hole, 





the units are assembled and a ½ piece of drill rod is set through the bearing caps to check for alignment. In my former unskilled life, I would have stopped here at these perfectly functional but unattractive bearing blocks.






Next, the caps are removed and prepared for rounding the tops. First I drill ¼ holes that define the start and stop positions for the end mill used for rounding.






Holes are drilled and excess material is milled away on the mill/drill.






Then the caps are mounted on a fixture. The fixture is mounted in the chuck on the rotary table and using a ¼ roughing end mill I find the positions of the start and stop holes I had drilled previously. I note the positions and keep them handy. While milling Im careful not to exceed either limit positions.






Here are all four brass caps milled:






The bearing blocks assembled for the new engine shown here






The bearing blocks for the old engine, shown here, installed. Nicer than before, no? Even better, the reassembled engine runs.






The next part Im working on is the crankshaft. Im using a crank web design thats fairly common. I cut the two arcs on this steel disk with a boring head. Although its an interrupted cut, it went smoothly enough. Shown here is a trial cut on a piece of steel I fished out of the recycle bin






Thats it for now. In a week I hope to show you a crankshaft.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Maryak (Nov 8, 2008)

Phil,

Really like your technique for milling the round on the top half brasses :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Brass_Machine (Nov 8, 2008)

Great idea for those caps Phil.

I should be at Cabin Fever. Don't know if I will be working a booth or not (for CNCzone)... But I should be there.

Eric


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## Philjoe5 (Nov 14, 2008)

The past week was spent making the crankshaft. My design has five major pieces  a main shaft, two crank webs and two crank pins. The webs will be attached to the main shaft and pinned in place with 1/8 steel pins. Since the flywheel and eccentrics are captive between the webs, the pins will allow for web removal when I first assemble (and disassemble) the engine to get it running. Once I get the engine working I can loctite the webs to the shaft if necessary for semi-permanence.

The crank webs are 3/8 thick steel disks that are center drilled/and reamed 0.375. A ¼  28 NF hole is tapped at a distance of 0.688 from the center hole. A ¼-28 bolt attaches a sleeve to form the crank pin for attached the connecting rod. There is a small hub on the crank web thats 5/8 diameter and 0.030 thick. This prevents the full wall of the web from contacting the bearing blocks in the assembled engine, thereby reducing friction. 

I faced the web disks on the lathe, made the hub, then center drilled/reamed the center hole. Then I clamped the lathe chuck to the mill table, centered the spindle over the web center hole. For this operation I use a piece of ½ drill rod in an end mill holder thats well secured in the chuck thats loosely clamped to the mill table. Then, the chuck is carefully clamped to the table and finally the table locks secured. 







At this point, the set screw on the end mill holder is loosened, and the mill head is raised so that the drill rod clears the end mill holder completely. Now the mill head is lowered so that the drill rod enters the end mill holder. If there is no significant contact between the end mill holder and the drill rod, Im done. Otherwise I start over with clamping. Other more tedious methods used to center the spindle over the chuck using dial indicators or edge finders never disagree with this method by more than 0.002 so if I can work to that tolerance (like here) I use this method. Now the crank web is mounted in the chuck and the table is moved 0.688 and drilled/tapped with ¼-28 NF threads. 






I was contemplating how to cut the arcs in the webs and keep everything aligned. I cant trust my eyes to align stuff so Im thinking fixture. I came up with this design. 






The center hole of the fixture is tapped 3/8-16 NC and the two ¼ locating holes are drilled. I bolted the web to the fixture, set the arc diameter on the boring head to 1.50 (a purely arbitrary setting that looked good to me). Then I adjusted the table x axis so the boring bar just kissed the edge of the workpiece. I found I could use 0.015 DOCs without making the machine or me nervous about this interrupted cut. I cut in a total of 0.625 (again arbitrary), swung the web around on the fixture and cut the other side. Here is a photo of the setup on the mill with the arc cut on one side:






then the other:






Both webs finished with the fixture used to make them






Then a piece of ½ drill rod was cut for the crankshaft. It was faced off to length, then turned down to a diameter of 0.375 on each end to fit the crank webs snugly, but not a press fit.  I have heard (cant remember the source, one of the steam loco groups I think) that one of the most common failures of a joint that is secured by loctite is a fit that is too tight, such as a press fit. So I typically try for something between close and press fit and I havent had a failure yet. The overall length of the crankshaft was calculated and has to be pretty close to actual dimensions. I made it 0.020 longer than necessary to accommodate 2 cranks webs, 2 eccentrics and a flywheel and 2 bearing blocks. This photo shows the crank webs temporarily mounted on the ends






Here, Ive mounted the crankshaft on the bearing blocks






Im in the mood for some lathe work so Ill tackle the flywheel next.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Philjoe5 (Nov 19, 2008)

Since my last post Ive made a flywheel. Nothing fancy but functional. Plans call for a 6 cast iron wheel but Ill be using some barstock I have on hand. I have some 4 diameter hot rolled steel and Ill make a flywheel out of that. I cut a slice off my stock thats about 1.5 thick. Next, I faced it off on both sides, cut a recess on both sides reamed the center hole ½. I tapped two holes with 10-32 threads for set screws. I start these holes at a 30 degree angle from the vertical using a centercutting 1/8 end mill. 






Heres the flywheel, hub side up with two cap screws in place (not the set screws Ill be using) to illustrate placement of the set screws.






Now drill some ½ holes so the spinning flywheel looks interesting






Am I done? Not quite. A little paint does wonders:






Ill call the flywheel finished. Now that Ive cut the crankshaft to length Ive pretty much determined the spacing of the two cylinder blocks. Now I can layout the cylinder blocks and the flywheel and bearing blocks on a wooden baseplate. With the cylinder blocks and bearing blocks mounted on a baseplate I can hook up the con rods to both cylinders (without any valve operation) and see how smooth movement is (or not!). 

Next up for machining are the eccentric straps and the valve rod bearings. These are fairly small pieces so I found some stock in the recycle bin and sliced off some workpieces on the bandsaw. Next, I milled them to size. Then I drilled/tapped them and finally I reamed some pivot holes. These are going to serve as pivot points on the rotary table for rounding these parts.






Rounding one of the eccentric straps






One of the eccentric straps being bored out






And the completed straps and valve rod bearings






Now Im off to visit my brother who just broke a bone in his foot falling off a ladder. 

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2008)

Philjoe--You are going to love the way that thing runs. Its a totally different world from single cylinder engines.---Brian


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## Maryak (Nov 19, 2008)

Phil,

Way to go, great cranks and flywheel. :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Philjoe5 (Nov 30, 2008)

Im working on the valve and its operating parts. Ive made the eccentric straps and valve rod bearings so now Im on to making the eccentrics. A week or two ago I started making one of the eccentrics. I was midway through when I realized, NO!, make the part thats bored out first, then turn the other part to fit. I finished turning the part to its nominal size but then when I went to separate it from the rest of the barstock I cut it 0.030 too short. It was almost like when I first realized I was making the wrong part first, it was destined to end up in the recycle bin.

So I made two eccentrics this week that differ in minor diameter by 0.001. I turned each one to fit one of the straps. I like a nice close fit here, probably closer than necessary. Ive begun to realize making this two cylinder engine that a new challenge arises in a multi cylinder engine, ie, keeping track of what pairs of interacting parts go together. Im using witness marks to keep track of mating parts. Maybe that will be my next engine  a multicylinder with completely interchangeable parts. Sounds easier than it probably would be. 

With 2 drilled/tapped holes for 10-32 set screws the eccentrics are finished.
Here, the straps are fitted onto their corresponding eccentrics. 






Next, I fished some ¼ steel scraps from the recycle bin for making two valve arms. Ive deviated from the original plans in making these. Plans call for filing a ¼ square hole in the arm and pinching it onto the valve end with a 4-40 screw. My design is all machine work which is easier to do for me. I milled a ¼ slot in the arm, then made a cap that fits over the slot to hold the valve in place. The slot is milled 0.010 undersize on the vertical dimension so the cap actually clamps the ¼ square valve end. The valve arms are pictured here clamping a piece of ¼ square steel bar to test for fit.






Valves were made from ½ brass rod. I turned them down to a diameter of 0.374 to fit the 3/8 reamed hole in the cylinder block. Then they are milled to produce two flats near the middle to act as open steam ports for each end of the cylinder, thereby producing a double acting mechanism. The completed valves are shown here:






Installed in the one of the cylinder blocks with the valve arm attached to the valve






I had one of those Aha! moments this evening. Im sure this has happened to some of you out there. Machining an engine or other mechanical device requires quite a bit of concentration at times. Ive been working on this engine for over 2 months and Ive been in the trees for so long I wasnt paying attention to the forest! By golly, I dont have that many parts to complete. Steam inlet flanges, crank pins and the baseplate and Im done. Im having déjà vu all over again because it was just about a year ago when I completed my first engine (of this design actually). 

I made two sleeves for the valve rod bearings. Learned a good lesson making them too. Wasted time is wasted, no matter how trivial the part. I turned the minor diameter of my first sleeve to a diameter of 0.249 to fit the ¼ reamed hole in the bearing. Next I center drilled it in preparation for drilling a clearance hole for a #10 screw (#9 drill). Then, since I wasnt reading the plans I put a ¼ drill in the tailstock chuck and started drilling away!. If anyone needs proof that 0.249  0.250 is a negative number, I have the proof in the chip pan under the lathe.

Heres a pic of the valve trains, one assembled, the other in parts.






My next post will be a completed engine. Im making a baseplate from wood to test out my dimensions, then later Ill use a piece of aluminum plate. Once I get the dimensions correct, Ill pin the crank webs to the crankshaft with some #8 set screws.

Cheers,
Phil


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## CrewCab (Nov 30, 2008)

Phil, this is really looking good 8) ......... please keep it coming.

CC


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## dsquire (Nov 30, 2008)

Philjoe5 

It sure looks to me like you are doing an excellent job on all the bits and pieces for your engine. I'll be watching for the finished engine when it comes.

Cheers :bow:

Don


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 30, 2008)

Philjoe---This may be kind of a dumb question, but how are you going to drive anything with your twin cylinder engine. Based on what I see of your photoshopped image at the beginning of this thread, the only way you can take off a drive from this engine is off the outer diameter of the flywheel. When I designed my twin, I considered doing it exactly as you show, but the thing that kept me from doing it that way was the inability to have an exposed driveshaft to put a pulley on.---Brian


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## Philjoe5 (Nov 30, 2008)

Brian,
Not a dumb question at all. Answer: being a mechanical newbie, I hadnt thought that far ahead ;D. No actually, I probably wont drive anything off of this engine. But correct me if Im wrong, couldnt you belt something off of the central flywheel as long as you elevated the driven pulley like in a lineshaft arrangement. Maybe even a friction drive with a rubber wheel on a small generator shaft placed against the flywheel? The engine Ive sort of modeled mine after is shown here:






It was a model engine for sale on eBay a year ago. I forgot who was selling the castings for it.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 1, 2008)

Generally speaking, the flywheel is way too large to take a drive off of. The drive pulley should be in the range of 1" to 1.75" diameter in order to give the correct mechanical advantage required to run something off your engine. As I said previously, I seriously considered building my twin the same as yours, because it makes it so much simpler, but I abandoned that idea so that I would have a crankshaft to mount pulleys on. The trouble with building an engine just to see if it will run, is that once you have established that it will run, there is nothing more that you can do with it.


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## kellswaterri (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi Brian, I would have to disagree on part of your post...

 ''The trouble with building an engine just to see if it will run, is that once you have established that it will run, there is nothing more that you can do with it''.

I and quite a number of others are working on utilising these little engines to drive Dynamoes or power minature factories...do not just build an engine and let it idle its life away by sitting on a shelf some where... put it to WORK...

Brian, if I have misunderstood your post, my apologies...
All the best for now,
              John.


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## Paula (Dec 1, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> The trouble with building an engine just to see if it will run, is that once you have established that it will run, there is nothing more that you can do with it.



Hmm... perhaps we have swerved into a philosophical issue.  I have thought about this quite a bit, and I have to admit that, _for me_, most of the fun is in the preparing to build, the building, and the finishing. After that, my engines get run occasionally, but mostly give me enjoyment just by being there. 

Would my enjoyment be enhanced if I coupled some of them to either real-life working loads (blender, condensate pump, etc.), or scaled loads? Perhaps, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort for the added pleasure it might bring. But this is just me. For me, it's all about the engine, building it, running it, and displaying it, for myself and others. If someone asks, "Yes, but what does it _*do*_?", then it just tells me that they don't "get it". :-\ (Yes, Virginia, it's a sickness... )

Paula

(PS - Phil, I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks for taking the time to document your progress for us! Nice work!)


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## b.lindsey (Dec 1, 2008)

I would like to second Paula's thoughts. For me its not how often they run, or what if anything they power while running...but rather that they do run , and will run at the lowest possible air/steam pressure which my skills will allow. After that, even sitting on the shelf, I still know what they are capable of and that alone brings satisfaction.

BTW, the twin shown in Phil's post above in PM Researche's #7BI engine and is still available. 

Phil, I am enjoying this thread also...beautiful work!!

Bill


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks for all the support and encouragement. Yes, I'm more in the Paula and 
Bill camp here. My satisfaction comes from building a piece of machinery and watching it run "at the lowest possible air/steam pressure which my skills will allow". I have some other single cylinder engines I can more easily belt up to drive something if I feel the need to do that. OTOH Brian I can easily see where you're coming from, especially since you have spent your career designing machines to do something quite useful. 

OK, enough of this blathering : on my part, I have a few more parts to make. Then, the required pics and video, and then ?

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 1, 2008)

Don't get me wrong. There is a tremendous amount of satisfaction in building an engine "just to see it run". My first 3 engines that I built were exactly like that. I was so blown away by the fact that I could actually create an engine that would run, under its own power. By the time I started to design my twin, I was confident that I could build an engine that would run. I needed a new challenge---perhaps the next stage of steamengineitis. I thought that it would be rather pointless to fill my office up with little steam engines, whether they ran well or not. My focus now, at least for a while, will be to build "things" that a steam engine will power.---Brian


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 1, 2008)

I hear ya Brian. I'm still in stage 1 of "steamengineitis". But I must say I've got your slinky machine plans and I'm watching your flyball project with great interest...so I'm preparing for stage 2 when or if it comes :big:

Cheers,
Phil


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## ChooChooMike (Dec 1, 2008)

It'll come, just wait for it , it'll sneak up on you very slowly .....


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## Cedge (Dec 1, 2008)

Move over Paula, Bill, Phil... 
I'm on the same bench. The journey is where I have the most fun. That was true even before I began building my own engines. Rescuing a forsaken family heirloom and restoring it to as good or better condition than when it was built gave me the same sort of energy jolt. Knowing it was sitting on the shelf and ready to run was enough... if you add in the knowledge that one more engine did not become scrap yard fodder. That was not nearly an uncommon fate in pre-Ebay times. 

It's one of the beauties of the hobby. I can build and or collect based on my own criteria. I like those with unique and unusual mechanical actions. My ideal collection would have one of each mechanical function ever used to build engines. Others prefer historical accuracy, a single model supplier's line, trains, boats.... and yes steam powered slinky machines. They have their place as well. 

Point being mine don't have to do anything but please me in my own needed way. That I can enjoy Brian's having to earn their keep is a nice plus for both of us.

Steve 

I read you Paula.... when I'm asked "but what does it do?"... my response is that "it gives me pleasure." If they have to ask, no amount of explanation is going to provide an adequate answer.


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## Maryak (Dec 2, 2008)

Phil,

It's really looking good and only 2 weeks off completion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








If your new at this game then you will be pretty amazing when your old at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Paula (Dec 2, 2008)

Phil, I'm sorry if I got your thread off track with my comment. It's an interesting subject that probably deserves it's own thread. Also, I hope I didn't come across as "anti-accessory", because I have seen some really NICE setups over the years -- with miniature machine shops, dynamos, etc. -- it's just that for me, it's mostly about the "prime mover". Although... I have to admit that when I see the fine work that some (like Marv, and others) have done with the PM Research mini machine tool kits, I do feel tempted. (I do wish, however that the kit makers would have used some cast iron. Something about a machine tool with aluminum ways -- even a model one -- just doesn't seem right. Still, they are endlessly fascinating (and cute!) ;D

Paula


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 2, 2008)

Paula, running accessories off of our model engines is related to our engine design so I think its completely relevant to this thread describing an engine I designed. Its a philosophical aspect to the hobby thats interesting to talk about because there are so many perspectives out there. I cant imagine anyone who makes engines to be anti-accessory because to make an engine is to be inherently fascinated by mechanical motion of any kind.

Some time ago I read a story about some wealthy guy who bought a fully loaded Harley Davidson motorcycle and put it in the living room of his 5th floor apartment in New York City probably to never see the open road. Most folks reaction to such a story is what a waste :'(. But to this guy, this motorcycle represented such a great technological achievement that its mere presence was inspiring. I can relate to both sides of this story. 

Cheers,
Phil


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## mklotz (Dec 2, 2008)

Being one of those people wont to over-introspection, I learned a long time ago that it's not a good idea to question why you're having fun while you're in the process of having fun.

If you simply must have an answer, just redefine your hobby to be the construction of intriguing mechanisms. That covers everything - model engines, model tools, workshop tools, cannons, fishing reels, etc..

On the notorious "Yabut, what does it do?" question, my usual answer is along the lines of:

It satisfies my innate desire to build objects of mechanical beauty, the artistry of which will be instantly recognized by anyone of even moderate intelligence.

Most of the cretins wander off shaking their heads while trying to decide if they've just been insulted.

Or, you can just ask them, "What is the utility of a plaster garden gnome?" which is something most of them can relate to more directly.


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## kellswaterri (Dec 2, 2008)

Hi Phil, sorry for side tracking your topic a bit, but it did raise some very interesting debate did it not ;D I do like your machining methods and where did you obtain the weird milling cutter with the grooves on the flutes...Keep her cutting Phil,
All the best for now,
             John.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 2, 2008)

Kelswaterri--You misunderstood my post. The point I was making is the same as the point that you are driving. Many people get satisfaction from building an engine "just to see if it will run". However, if there is no way to take a drive off it like the engine Philjoe is making, then you are limited to exactly that---and once you've seen it run, there is very little else that you can do with it except run it once in a while to amuse yourself, or a friend. I enjoy building an engine "just to see if I can" as much as anyone.---Its just that after I've seen it run 50 times, I want to do something else with it---i.e. power a dynamo, a sawmill, a slinky machine---whatever. And if there is no way to take a drive off it, then you are unable to do that.


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## Cedge (Dec 2, 2008)

Brian
You really need to meet up with www.crabfu.com . The same philosophy lead this young lad astray... in the extreme....LOL. His turbine tank project and a couple of others were sponsored by the company I'm working with.

Steve


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## BobWarfield (Dec 3, 2008)

A power pickup could be as simple as the little pulley driving the ball governor in the eBay photo. Whether said pulley is there or not should not require critique or philosophical debate. People seldom do build logs because they're in search of criticism or debates, hence one should be very reluctant to dole any out, or to embark on too much of a tangent lest it driver the builder to distraction. The log is, after all, the builder's opportunity to show what they're doing and not to argue about what we'd like them to do!

Phil, pray continue with your project. I'm enjoying it with or without power pickups, and I realize the beauty is in your eye as the creator who enjoys his creation. I've already seen some great tips that I've logged for my own notebooks on this sort of work, and I like the look of the engine you've conceived.

Cheers,

BW


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 3, 2008)

BW
The beauty of the barstock engine is that the builder is under no constraints in designing its various parts to suit their particular needs. As I pointed out earlier, I had not really thought that far ahead about driving anything with this engine and likely never will do so. But now that Ive taken all of 5 minutes to think about it, sounds like much ado about nothing.

Heres where my flywheel starts with a 3/8 thick hub of any diameter you wish  I make mine about 1.5 in diameter. 






You could easily make a pulley out of this hub by making it any diameter that suited the application and then putting a little v in it for a belt drive.  If you dont like a multifunction flywheel? Then make a separate pulley and bolt it to the face of the flywheel. This setup work great on the generator I built. 






Any constraints on what you can do or drive with a barstock engine appear to me to be artificially placed there. : 

Work continues on the last part, the mighty baseplate ;D

Cheers,
Phil


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## Maryak (Dec 3, 2008)

Phil,

Enjoy your build and forget the philosophy. : I reckon it's going to be a great engine :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 3, 2008)

Enough philosiphy for one thread. Philjoe, I think you are building a great engine, and I enjoy the posts you are putting up. As I said in a much earlier post, this engine is going to blow you away with how well it runs, simply because it is a twin cylinder. Tell me, are you going to offset the crank pins at 90 degrees to make this one a self starter or at 180 degrees. When I built mine with the crank throws offset 90 degrees, I wasn't sure how that would work. I thought maybe it would cause the engine to "gallop", but it doesn'tseem to have any adverse effects that I can see.---Brian


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## artrans (Dec 3, 2008)

my 2 cents worth here for me i love hit and miss engines and can watch run for hours and i enjoy it. However an old timer came by my shop one day and saw the hit and miss engines and said years ago he went to a lot of shows and he noticed that the engines that where
running things had the best attraction then say a perfect painted nice running engine just running. So I guess the point is its what one enjoys i like both so for me it does not matter.If I did shows I would run something for the attention. I would think must of us on this site it abort being a motor head so all is fair game. my wife says she like to strap a motor on her back to get more attention and I said make sure it runs something. that line cost me big time :big: :big:


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 4, 2008)

This has been an interesting few months for me but the process is nearly at an end. A few of the last pieces I made were the crosshead pins and the steam inlet flanges. The inlets are temporary so I can test the engine using a Y connection off of the compressor.

I have fabricated the baseplate out of ¾ plywood for now. I used this material as a baseplate because its cheaper than aluminum and I needed to confirm my measurements for placement of the cylinder blocks and bearing blocks. 

Here are all of the parts needed to make this engine:






I believe an engine isn't simply the sum of its parts, so I have more work to do.

At this point Ill strip to a loin cloth and climb the highest mountain in southeastern Pennsylvania ( a hill actually, about 200 ft above sea level). There I shall enter the tweak zone and assemble this engine and try for a test run. I will either return victorious or as a babbling idiot :wall: for the rest of my life. Until my return, thanks to all for your support and encouragement,

Cheers,
Phil


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## Maryak (Dec 4, 2008)

Philjoe5  said:
			
		

> I believe an engine isn't simply the sum of its parts, so I have more work to do.
> 
> At this point Ill strip to a loin cloth and climb the highest mountain in southeastern Pennsylvania ( a hill actually, about 200 ft above sea level). There I shall enter the tweak zone and assemble this engine and try for a test run. I will either return victorious or as a babbling idiot :wall: for the rest of my life. Until my return, thanks to all for your support and encouragement.



Phil please save me a place in the "Tweak Zone" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then we can have a mutual tweak off.

Best Regards
Bob


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## rake60 (Dec 4, 2008)

Philjoe5  said:
			
		

> I will either return victorious or as a babbling idiot :wall: for the rest of my life.
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil



Are you making fun me Phil? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Great looking parts! 
I'm sure your return will be victorious!
I already have the "babbling idiot" title covered.
Don't try going the Village Idiot thing either.
Already own that T Shirt here as well...





 :

Good Luck with the final assembly.
Looking forward to seeing it running!

Rick


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 7, 2008)

All metal parts have been machined and Ive made a temporary engine baseplate of plywood. The cylinder blocks were attached as well as the flywheel end of things. At this point the crank webs just slip onto the crankshaft. The dimensions of the crankshaft can be changed if needed, but I found free movement of the connecting rods on both cylinders and the crank webs could be fully rotated so alls well.

Now crankshaft is drilled/tapped 8-32, with cranks 90º out of phase.






Witness marks on the crankshaft ends and the webs ensure easy assembly and disassembly. The #8 screws go all the way through the crankshaft ends into the opposite side of the crank web. This construction seems to be quite sturdy for this application.

A quick paint job on the plywood and the cylinder block and flywheel assemblies are installed. Next the valve trains are connected. The engine is in its final form and free movement of the flywheel occurs.






What you see at this point is an engine that runs but I want to make a baseplate out of an aluminum plate. Then based upon what I learned from this build Im going to make a few improvements to some of the older models I built. Heres a video (noisy and grainy) of its first run. I have good timing on one cylinder but the other one needs some tweaking.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1hgpYfpN4c[/ame]

Once again I must acknowledge Ray HasBrouck for the design of the mill engine #3 that served as an inspiration for this engine. The only parts I had to design were the crankshaft and baseplate. 


Cheers,
Phil


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## Maryak (Dec 8, 2008)

Phil,

That's just great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I can hear the lug on one cylinder RH one I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Best Regards
Bob


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2008)

Great work Philjoe!!! Congratulations.---Brian


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## dsquire (Dec 8, 2008)

Phil

You have created another fine engine. A bit of tweaking and you will be satisfied with it. If you hadn't told us, we probably wouldn't have known about it. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

It is definitely a keeper. :bow: :bow:

Cheers

Don


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2008)

Do you find that it starts well by itself with the crank pins at 90 degrees? Mine does as long as there is good air pressure. After it starts, you can turn the regulator down quite a bit untill the engine is running really, really slow, but at the lower air pressure they don't self start very well.


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 8, 2008)

Brian,
It does self start every time. I put the cranks 90 degrees apart as you did. I've put 30 minutes on the engine and now I can get it to self start now around 15 psi, then I can set the regulator down to about 5 psi. It's a great runner. I'll shortly have two videos of it posted as I've got the timing down pretty well.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 8, 2008)

OK, got the timing issues taken care of. Ive got about 30 minutes on the engine at 40 psi and at that pressure she goes pretty fast:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKNm50TgQk4[/ame]

Next, I cut the pressure to the engine in stages down to a little over 5 psi, at which point she goes over pretty slow:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=743NksKv53U[/ame]

I guess thats the end of this thread for me. Thanks to everyone for offering support and encouragement. With you all looking over my shoulder I had to keep my coffee breaks to a minimum and so I finished up sooner than I thought. Its fun to conceptualize a machine and then go build it.

Since no one commented on it Ill mention it here. The Wrigglys Doublemint gum wrapper that I put in many of the photos was meant to remind me of that old song advertising this product. I often hummed it to myself when making two parts of the same thing:

Double your pleasure, double your fun, with doublemint, doublemint gum :big: :big: :big:

Cheers,
Phil


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## Maryak (Dec 8, 2008)

Phil,

Bloody Marvellous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








My heartfelt congratulations :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## CrewCab (Dec 8, 2008)

Philjoe5  said:
			
		

> The Wrigglys Doublemint gum wrapper that I put in many of the photos was meant to remind me of that old song ...............
> 
> Double your pleasure, double your fun, with doublemint, doublemint gum :big: :big: :big:



 : and there I was thinking what a dam good way to convey the overall size of the engine ............ never thought of singing along ........ till now .......... now I can't get the dam tune out of mi' head  ;D

Dam fine job Phil, it looks and runs very well :bow:

CC


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2008)

Philjoe--I've been looking at earlier posts, but I can't find it---What is the bore and stroke on your engine.?--Brian


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## rake60 (Dec 8, 2008)

Very Well Done Phil!

Rick


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks guys. It's been great fun.

Brian: bore x stroke is 1.00" x 1.38"

Cheers,
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2008)

Philjoe5  said:
			
		

> Thanks guys. It's been great fun.
> 
> Brian: bore x stroke is 1.00" x 1.38"
> 
> ...


That will be a very powerfull engine. Mine is only 1/2" bore x 1.25" stroke.


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## seagar (Dec 8, 2008)

Great work,thank you for sharing it with us.

Ian.


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