# Shapers large or small?



## ieezitin (Jan 16, 2011)

Fellas.
Back in my day ( Late 70ies ) our machine shop ( which serviced a paper mill ) had two full-size metal shapers which slapped and clapped in mechanical harmony all day long, I was forever using it for slotting keys, roughing out, gear teeth and it made dovetailing a doddle, it really is a very versatile machine. Now I am at the stage in my shop where I need one, well just say I desire one, but there really is a good reason to have one for it saves on expensive tooling ( end mills and all that ) .

I am in tune with the secondhand market, I attend auctions regularly ( my whole shop has been furnished this way ) and I see full size machines turn up and are sold for nearly scrap value, then there are the small amateur ones that go for silly prices. So here is my question, I know what full size machines can do but I never have had the opportunity to see what the scaled down models can do so anyone with experience I would like to know your thoughts. The information I am most interested in is are they up to snuff with being able to cope with abusive pressures it generates just by the nature of how it works, are there ranges X Y Z practical for their size and what is there feed rates like?.

Next weekend a 7 Atlas metal shaper is for sale at a local auction, its in a sweet shape and it comes with an original vice and I am thinking about buying it, so if anyone has experience with this particular model I would appreciate the heads up. I have the Atlas horizontal mill which is a remarkable little machine and I hope the shaper is just as good.

Its rare for me to machine large stuff; my largest lathe is a 12 x 36 Atlas and there has not been a job in my shop that I have not been able to accomplish so this may give you some scale for what I do

All the best  Anthony.


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## tel (Jan 16, 2011)

I know a couple of guys with the 7" Atlas's and they both have nothing but good things to say about 'em. Mine is a Douglas 10.5", a small 'full sized' machine and I wouldn't part with it for anything.


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## f350ca (Jan 16, 2011)

I picked up an 8" Logan about a year ago for the same reason. Cheap tooling for roughing out, cutting dovetails, and internal keyways. Hadn't run one since high school and was impressed at the accuracy you can easily attain. .
She's not pretty but its tight and gets the job done.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eRdqkvzPLY-yf4p_ONJgqg?feat=directlink
Here's some dovetailing I did on a QCTP I built.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F7F5O_Coj_nzkUXlxx-6kg?feat=directlink
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jnqmMgk3dzjnuN9kH6F4nA?feat=directlink
Greg


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## ieezitin (Jan 16, 2011)

Greg.

Thanks for showing the pictures. Nice work you done there. Also for those who are not familiar with shapers if you look at his pictures his vice is not so tall as to allow more room for the machining deed and stroking action it generates.

Its a shame that this machine has really been forgotten in the machine shop environment, where I done my apprenticeship ( in the paper mill I mentioned ) we all had work quotas we had to fill each week, this shop was really busy the mill had 5 paper making machines running 24-7, we all had to buy time on machines for our work loads and everyone just sucked up the milling machine slots, I was the only one who really appreciated this machines capabilities and learned its true value this gave me an edge to completing my weekly duties. I have coveted a shaper since in my own shop and now its time to satisfy my whim.

Tel.

Thanks for relaying what you have herd. You have quite a stout little brute on ya hands, its nice to know its essential in your shop and it wont be parted with. Am I correct in saying that a Douglas is an English machine? If not whats its history?

All the best.  Anthony.


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## lathe nut (Jan 16, 2011)

Anthony, I have an Atlas and SB both 7 inch, I like the Atlas better the SB is all painted and polished so he just sits there looking nice, I also bought a 36'' HD Cincinnati it was still under power played with it a little then moved it to a shop until I can get it here at home, that big boy can push, don't need it just wanted it, Lathe Nut


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## tel (Jan 16, 2011)

No Antony, the Douglas is a genuine Aussie machine, very popular at one time in smaller works, but, as you say, fallen out of grace now.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/douglasshaper/


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## Royal Viking (Jan 16, 2011)

I picked up an AMMCO 7" in boxes when I bought my Southbend. I've worked on it off an on again. I am trying to strip the paint off of it and then reassemble it. It's good to hear your opinions on the shaper. I am glad to have read it.


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## shred (Jan 16, 2011)

I heard a quote a while back: "You can make anything with a shaper, except money". Perfect for small shops then 

They rarely come up around here and I think any that were in commercial shops are long gone as it seems to be only hobby interest. They do seem to have a habit of getting snapped up, then sitting gathering dust until sold again...


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## Antman (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi Anthony (from another Anthony, 'though I've always been called Ant),

   My first machine was an Atlas 7 in quite used and abused condition, which I picked up cheap. You need have no fears of the thing not having enough push to cut through the hard stuff. I have made some tool holders from Merc Benz V8 diesel crank counter weights which is HARD, (choosing to disregard the advice given here on HMEM regarding mystery metals) chews up drill bits, but cuts with my little shaper, well, not like butter, maybe more like hard cheese, using only 8mm HSS, sharp tool, light cuts for finishing, but taking quite deep roughing cuts around 7 thou.  I thought why would counter weights need to be so hard, maybe to minimize flex ... ideal for tool holders.
   I'm still very much a newb at machining, but I found the shaper good for builing up my confidence, while I was still very wary of the lathe. I've yet to succeed with slotting and slitting but I made some ok dovetails already.
   Get the shaper, you will dig it.  Another thing they are messy, spitting chips all over the shop. I rigged up a swarf catcher around the front of my machine, on hinges for access, that catches maybe 80% of the mess.


           Cheers,
            Ant


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## ieezitin (Jan 17, 2011)

guys.

I thank you all for your opinions, I have had enough feedback that confirms these little machines up to scratch.

Ant.
Chips flying around the shop is what I remember plus the smell of cutting oil fumes. This machine that I will purchase will be a great contribution to my shop.

Anthony.


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## MachineTom (Jan 24, 2011)

Well, I too was jones'n for a shaper, found a nice SB 7, cleaned it up and made some parts. Nice finish, ran by itself, slower than an ant eating a hippo, table too small for any part mounting. Passed it on to someone else that wanted one. A Bridgeport can do in 5 minutes what that shaper did in an hour. I may again own one but it will be 12+ size.


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## Tin Falcon (Jan 24, 2011)

I have a 7" atlas a fun relaxing machine to run. 
They say you can make anything on a shaper but money. versatile but as tom said a bit slow. 
Tin


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## Dunc (Jan 27, 2011)

Lots of info here

http://neme-s.org/Shaper Books/shaper_book_page.htm


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