# Old lathe conversion



## Qweel (Jul 22, 2015)

Hello all, 

My name is Will, am in my late 30's and I have been lurking here for a while admiring the talent and openness with which you show and share. The idea is at some point to watch, learn and develop a hobby in machining.

For the time being I enjoy finding and restoring old machinery namely old early 20th century pillar drills etc. I particularly love the solidity, design and curves of the old cast iron machines, and of course the usefulness.

This leads me onto a find I have made. Its an old lineshaft lathe, date and manufacturer unknown. It has a gear cover maked MWM Ditter on it but I think this is a later addition.

















My Question is: Without re doing the whle lineshaft setup, (which i would love to do at some point), is there a way of adding an electric motor to take over the role of the pulleys. Has anyone done it or is it just not worth the effort for a machine that has surely had a long hard life and plenty of play.

Thanks for your ideas, thanks for the great website and please keep inspiring me.

Regards.

Will


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## goldstar31 (Jul 22, 2015)

I think that some also going to be surprised but kits are now available to convert vee belt  Myford lathes to- belt drives!

Ok there is no problem in going the other way and fitting vee belts. My old Pools Major was converted many years ago. What people did was to keep the belts but put vee belts on the layshaft to an electric motor. Mine was a quarter horse ex-washing machine 1440 rpm one

Does this help?


Norman


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## Hopper (Jul 22, 2015)

Sure there is a way to motorize it. The best way would be to obtain/make a matching set of flat belt pulleys and mount them on a countershaft bolted to the bench behind the lathe, with a larger V belt pully on the end of the shaft with V belt running to an electric motor slung below the benchtop, or even attached to the uprights supporting the countershaft. Using a modern poly-V belt in place of the flat belt will improve belt grip quite a bit.

The quick and dirty way is to simply bolt an electric motor to the bench behind the lathe. Run a vee belt from the motor around one of the existing flat pulleys on the lathe.  Disadvantages of this are that the belt will slip easily and you will have to move the motor accordingly when you want to change lathe speed by using a different one of the flat pulleys. 

If you Google Image search lathe countershaft there should be plenty of pics of different setups.

Your best shot to find what kind of lathe you might have is www.lathes.co.uk
It looks early 20th Century, bit British in the headstock design, but maybe American with the V-way bed?


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## Qweel (Jul 22, 2015)

Hi and thanks for the info.

Am waiting on the owner to see if there are any identifying marks on it.
Your ideas on the origin/styles are interesting, the lathe is just over the channel in France. 
It would be fascinating if it was left there after the 1st WW.

Like the idea of the countershaft, did a search and found this which seems about right.





Source: http://www.sportpilot.info/sp/Disassembling%20a%20South%20Bend%20Lathe%20for%20Moving.htm

Ideally I would like to find an old donor piece i could adapt and that fits with the age.

I presume there are people here that wouldn't be against helping make some identical flat belt pullys, for a fee?

Thanks

Will


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## ShopShoe (Jul 22, 2015)

If you have an antique engine club near you that includes swap meets, you may be able to find some flat-belt pulleys or some other bits of machines that include them.

I have also seen bits and pieces for lineshaft installations online from time to time. Sorry, not recently and I can't remember where.

--ShopShoe


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## goldstar31 (Jul 22, 2015)

I would guess that the lathe is a German Ridder- if the gear cover is anything to go by.

From my past contacts, there were plenty of very good French lathe makers. Sadly, my contacts with pre-War French Hotchkiss  and De La Haye cars are gone.

It would be interesting to find out what you have got.  Restoration of basic lathes is pretty straight forward.


Norman


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## kf2qd (Jul 22, 2015)

I have made a matching set of flat belt pulleys for a lathe like this out of oak. rough cut some 1" into disks, drilled a center hole for the mounting shaft and glued them up. The glue filled any space between the wood and the shaft and locked them on. I then mounted the shaft in pillow blocks for it to run in. Turned them in a lather and installed them. Finished the OD with several coats of shellac. I suppose you could make them from plywood, but i had the oak.


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## Qweel (Jul 23, 2015)

Nice idea doing it in wood, would be a nice solution to get the lathe up and running.

Goldstar, the gear cover is almost certainly a piece taken from an engine. Diter was a Spanish company that was well known for their engines, they were bought out by MWM a German company in the 80s which was then bought out by Deutz.

I can't believe that companies were still making flat belt metal lathes in the early 80's.

There is a great French website in the same spirit as HMEM, well worth the visit, lots of good stuff on restorations and machining, even if you don't speak French.

French: http://www.usinages.com/

Google translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=www.usinages.com&edit-text=

Will see if anyone there is able to ID it.

Will


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## goldstar31 (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks, Will! Actually, I can read French pretty well- brought up on a diet of Clochemerle and Jacques Tatti. Found Claire Chazal on TF1 more exciting!

Cheers

Norman


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## Qweel (Jul 23, 2015)

Claire Chazal, yup, I can understand that. You are one of many.

I found this on the Usinages website.

Very similar model, the bed is flat. The legs are in different places but are the same shape. He too doesn't have any ID info...

Why would anyone go to the effort to build a lathe, casting, machining etc, then not put their mark on it ???

Anyways.

http://www.usinages.com/threads/ca-y-est-la-restauration-a-commence.34059/

Will


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## goldstar31 (Jul 23, 2015)

I think the reason could be because your lathe could originally 'military'
When, I don't know. It could have come from a ship or an engineers mobile workshop in either of two World wars. You are in the right area. Maybe there is casting number or code on the bed or the legs which could give clue.

As for the absence of a brass plate, lathes often got a plate from the dealer and lathes, would you believe, often came from several manufacturers. Tubal Cain in a very old Model Engineer magazine did a write up on this. So long ago, but it was Tom Walshaw( Tubal Cain)

My memory isn't too bad, so far

Norman


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## Hopper (Jul 23, 2015)

Qweel, "the lathe is just over the channel in France. 
It would be fascinating if it was left there after the 1st WW."

Ah, well then. It could be one of many European lathes that were sometimes based on US and UK designs or a mixture thereof.  Take a look at the German IXL lathes on lathes.com.uk. I think they were based on early Seneca Falls lathes from the US, and have some similarities with yours. 

But the four speed pulleys on yours are a bit distinctive. Seems to be a French preference, where most others went with three speeds. 

And possibly no name on it because there was a lot of "badge engineering" that went on with various manufacturers supplying machines under the same name, or one supplying various retailers with the same machine under different names.

Good luck with the hunt.
And btw, the wooden pulley idea is a good 'un. You could temporarily set up the motor belted directly to the lathe spindle to turn up the wooden pulleys for its own countershaft.


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## Qweel (Jul 24, 2015)

Hi Hopper

Thanks for the link.

I like the way they have done the countershaft.




Source:Lathes.co.uk

Just another question, I have seen plenty of lathes where the saddle runs on a flat bed, whats the benefit of it running on a flat bed with triangular *(insert correct word here)*. 






Thanks for all the info guys.

Will


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## Swifty (Jul 24, 2015)

The word you are looking for is "way", on a flat bed, the sides act as guides and would have a gib strip to take out slack. With a V way, the weight of the tailstock and saddle take out any slack without the need for adjustment, so long as they have been mated correctly in the first place. Only my thoughts, others may have different ideas.

Paul.


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## Gerhardvienna (Jul 24, 2015)

Hi Paul
You are correct, I can see this on my lathe from former Eastern Germany. This has a flat way, especially when bigger differences in temperatur happen I have to set the supports new! I`m okay with it, but I still have to remember!


Regards
Gerhard


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## Sean (Jun 24, 2020)

Qweel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My name is Will, am in my late 30's and I have been lurking here for a while admiring the talent and openness with which you show and share. The idea is at some point to watch, learn and develop a hobby in machining.
> 
> ...


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## Sean (Jun 24, 2020)




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## Sean (Jun 24, 2020)

German lathe
Busy restoring.  Who can help with the make ?


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## Spider Brandt (Aug 31, 2022)

Qweel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My name is Will, am in my late 30's and I have been lurking here for a while admiring the talent and openness with which you show and share. The idea is at some point to watch, learn and develop a hobby in machining.
> 
> ...


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## Spider Brandt (Aug 31, 2022)

Qweel said:


> Hi Hopper
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> 
> ...


Mate I have exactly the same lathe Do you know what year yous is and what make ? I think it's German , I just saw your Brass Plaque , can you take a photo off it Please I don't have one that would be Awesmoe


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## SmithDoor (Aug 31, 2022)

Qweel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My name is Will, am in my late 30's and I have been lurking here for a while admiring the talent and openness with which you show and share. The idea is at some point to watch, learn and develop a hobby in machining.
> 
> ...


I like v-groves on large pulley to small diameter v-grove pulley on a DC motor for speed control.  Works great.

Dave


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## packrat (Sep 1, 2022)

Here is a photo of a old lathe with over head drive.....


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## terryd (Sep 2, 2022)

Qweel said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My name is Will, am in my late 30's and I have been lurking here for a while admiring the talent and openness with which you show and share. The idea is at some point to watch, learn and develop a hobby in machining.
> 
> ...


Hi,

If you get the chance, a read of the South bend booklet 'How to Run a Lathe' from 1934 may give you some idea as they were in a period of transition from countershaft drive to individual motor drive and offered lathes with either option with lots of illustrations and pictures on how to set up simple countershaft drives for the small shop.  There is also information on how to lace your own flat belts and you may even be able to find the correct leather (or substitute) for the belts as there are many heritage farm machinery groups and of course those machines used flat belt drive.  There is a pdf verion of the booklet of around 90 pages somewhere on the net, it just needs a search for the title.  As for the 'flat' pulleys I believe that they were very slightly domed across the flat which kept the belt centred, it doesn't need much of a doming to be effective.

As an aside, when serving my apprenticeship in mechanical engineering I worked with a guy operating an old lathe dated 1904 still with flat belt drive and he had conncocted a frame loosely hinged above and just behind the lathe which carried a large electric motor and the original countershaft cone pulley (around 4' above if I remember correctly but it was over 60 years since) and the weight of those kept the tension on the belts.

Best of luck with the project,

regards

TerryD


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## terryd (Sep 2, 2022)

Qweel said:


> Claire Chazal, yup, I can understand that. You are one of many.
> 
> I found this on the Usinages website.
> 
> ...


Hi Will, 

as I mentioned in another reply I worked with a guy who was operating an old converted belt drive lathe and the only marking in the casting was "Austin Motor Company 1904".  The Austin Factory was opened in Longbridge in the English Midlands in 1905 so I can only assume that the lathe was manufactured for installation in that factory but there was no makers name.  Could lead to confusion as Austin  never made machine tools only vehicles (except in WW2 when they helped with the war effort making air frames and engines).

Regards

TerryD


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## terryd (Sep 2, 2022)

Swifty said:


> The word you are looking for is "way", on a flat bed, the sides act as guides and would have a gib strip to take out slack. With a V way, the weight of the tailstock and saddle take out any slack without the need for adjustment, so long as they have been mated correctly in the first place. Only my thoughts, others may have different ideas.
> 
> Paul.


Hi Paul,

You are quite right in your assumption about the ways.  South Bend- at least on the small lathes and derivatives like my Engish Boxford had 3 'vee' ways and one flat, the saddle runs on two and tailstock on the other and the flat.  I have seen the 'vee' ways described as prismatic (as in triangular prism) and even trapezoidal,

Regards

TerryD


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