# South Bend 8K photos



## mikbul

Here's some test turning and facing cuts and other photos on an SB1001 with a 5" D1-3 camlock chuck. Around 600 rpms in high range with a carbide insert.


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## mikbul

Here's a brass tubing center with bearing I machined at 600 rpms with carbide insert in the SB1001 for turning 6061 aluminum tube, no more oiling the dead center. I machined in a center relief so the bearing could spin free





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## mikbul

Here are some test cuts on a 1.5" centered steel bar at .015", .020", .025", .030", .040", .050", and .060" DOC in high range with carbide insert at 425 - 525 rpms , about 200-300 rpms above idle on the brushless D/C motor. High range is 200- 2300 rpms


IMG_1392.JPG
IMG_1IMIMG_1396.JPGG_1395.JPG394.JPG


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## mikbul

The 8K out of the crate, lubed and after spindle break in is a useable machine. All controls, carriage, cross slide, and compound are smooth but rigid. 0 run out at 1" from face of spindle with a Miller test bar, .004" at twelve inches but that's without properly cleaning all surfaces. The D1-3 4" chuck is above average for a three jaw and the D1-3 5" with no adapter and reversible jaws is nothing short of incredibly precise. The only thing I find lacking with the 8K is not the lathe but the spindle adapter (4.5MT-3MT). I purchased one from Miller Machine to use with my Miller Machine test bar (3MT)


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## mikbul

Here's a series of photos of Miller spindle sleeve on Miller test bar between centers and turned by hand. 0 run out


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## mikbul

I posted these photos to see if there was any interest in the 8K which is on sale at this moment for a ridiculous price for a lathe of this caliber. If anyone has an interest I have much more info.


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## Philjoe5

Thanks for the review.  I'm sure many will find it helpful.  Looks like a very good tool, enjoy it for years to come

Cheers,
Phil


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## bazmak

How about a couple of photos of the lathe itself and details of you get
What is the rediculous low price.Here in the outback,didnt know
southbend were still making lathes.  Regards barry


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## Philjoe5

Hi Barry,

Grizzly Tools, a major importer of Asian tools, bought the South Bend name some time ago.  They market a whole line of "South Bend" branded tools, lathes, mills and accessories.

The lathe reviewed here is this model:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/SB1001

IIRC this lathe is produced in Taiwan to higher standards than the Grizzly line of machine tools.  See SB history here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Bend_Lathe

As far as "ridiculous price" goes, well that has different meanings to different folks.  It appears to be a well made machine and has the advantage in the US of good support from Grizzly.

Cheers,
Phil


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## mikbul

bazmak said:


> How about a couple of photos of the lathe itself and details of you get
> What is the rediculous low price.Here in the outback,didnt know
> southbend were still making lathes. Regards barry


 
Here are some random photos, Sale price is $1900. Spend a day with this machine or the new 10K and you'll know what quality is. The 8K comes with a two page test record signed and dated by the inspector and the director. My last lathe certainly didn't come with any such record. Reminds me of when I made high precision switches for NASA and the Armed Forces. Every step of production was signed and dated. Also the lathe was useable out of the crate! I only leveled the ways with a Starrett machinists level, lubed it and broke in the spindle. That test face on brass was perfectly flat, and the 16" aluminum turn had only .004" run out without touching the tailstock. I just don't see where you would get a lathe with hardened ways, D1-3 camlock spindle, 1-1/8" spindle bore, variable speed brushless 1.5 hp motor, digital tach and more for $1900.00 with any other lathe out there.

[/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]


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## mikbul

Here's lathe first set up with 4" D1-3 chuck, above average 3 jaw, since then I have the 5" D1-3 chuck which is exceptional and has bolt on jaws.


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## Philjoe5

The spindle bore on your lathe is 1 1/8", which is larger than the 10k SB lathe version which is a definite plus.

Cheers,
Phil


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## bazmak

Thanks for your input and photos.It looks a nice lathe


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## Swifty

Very nice lathe that you have there, looks very solid and well built.

Paul.


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## mikbul

Philjoe5 said:


> The spindle bore on your lathe is 1 1/8", which is larger than the 10k SB lathe version which is a definite plus.
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil


 
And the variable speed, my 7X16 had that and once you've had V/S it would be hard to go back, specially since I have all carbide inserts except the cutoff which is HSS. One thing to note is the 4" chuck is smaller than 1-1/8", but the 5" is slightly bigger. 1.125 SP. to 1.126 CK.


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## mikbul

Thanks from our friends in Australia!
Mikbul


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## mikbul

Philjoe5 said:


> The spindle bore on your lathe is 1 1/8", which is larger than the 10k SB lathe version which is a definite plus.
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil


 
Would this be a better picture size?


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## mikbul

Here's some photos of the crate finally in the shop and what comes inside. Nice crating job, no damage.


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## mikbul

Here's some photos of runout test on the Miller Machine adapter, 0 runout


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## mikbul

I have to say the double t-nut slotted crosslide for the compound base on the South Bend 8K is a brilliant idea. I know it's not a new idea, just the same, my last lathe didn't have it and I spent a lot of wasted time trying to get the tool in the right position.


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## Swifty

Have to agree about the double T slot, what a great idea, I wish that I had it on my lathe.

Paul.


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## mikbul

Swifty said:


> Have to agree about the double T slot, what a great idea, I wish that I had it on my lathe.
> 
> Paul.



Nice to know somebody's reading this! 
Happy turnings Swifty 
 and greetings to Australia!
 Mike


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## mikbul

When I was first looking at the SB1001 as a purchase one thing kept bothering me, the compound looked like it would flex. Since I come to realize those worries were unfounded. The compound has a short, (The key is short) stout chunk of Iron bolted with five bolts to a thick piece of steel and captured by another thick piece of Iron that's as wide as the crosslide. Just enough room for the two t-nuts that at 90 degrees are fully exposed and at 45 where I keep mine half the nut is showing, plenty to find it with a wrench. In practice I find no flex with steel or grabby brass with a cutoff tool, provided you've got that brass locked in with a center. Like my friends from Australia would say, " no worries mate"


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## JAndrew

Mikbul,

Thanks for all the pictures. That t-nut slide idea looks great but leaves me wondering how they setup the gib screws for it? Or are there gib screws at all?

The only problem I see with buting a new machine like that is knowing that it will never be that clean again! MUAHAHA!

-J.Andrew


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## mikbul

JAndrew said:


> Mikbul,
> 
> Thanks for all the pictures. That t-nut slide idea looks great but leaves me wondering how they setup the gib screws for it? Or are there gib screws at all?
> 
> The only problem I see with buting a new machine like that is knowing that it will never be that clean again! MUAHAHA!
> 
> -J.Andrew



There's gib screws on the compound and gib screws on the crosslide.
The compound base has t-slots. Go to page two post #20 and see the gib screws on the compound and the crosslide handle, there are dovetails under the crosslide like any other lathe. Page 1 post#10 shows the compound upside down and the dovetails. If you took your compound off and machined t-slots into the top of the crosslide, you would have the same thing.

Your right about being clean but it's the dings I've put in the paint that hurt.
Actually it was with the crosslide gib screws that I dinged the paint on the tailstock.

Here's some photos of the carriage, crosslide and compound. The photo in the crate the crosslide is off of the carriage and you can see the dove tails, screw and nut.


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## mikbul

Took a trial pass down a piece of 16"X2" 6061 aluminum tube tonight and much better finish than carbide. I think the ticket is to rough down with carbide then finish passes with Cermet. One thing it showed me is I need to order a SB bullnose from Grizzly.


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## Swifty

I just finished turning some aluminium for the cylinder on the twin flame licker that I'm making, 54mm dia as both bores are in the same block, and the finish with carbide was excellent. I suppose it depends on the grade of aluminium, mine was an unknown piece that I had lying around. 

Every time I see pictures of your lathe I'm envious, it's smaller than mine, but it looks very well built. Would love to have one as a second lathe.

Paul.


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## mikbul

Swifty said:


> I just finished turning some aluminium for the cylinder on the twin flame licker that I'm making, 54mm dia as both bores are in the same block, and the finish with carbide was excellent. I suppose it depends on the grade of aluminium, mine was an unknown piece that I had lying around.
> 
> Every time I see pictures of your lathe I'm envious, it's smaller than mine, but it looks very well built. Would love to have one as a second lathe.
> 
> Paul.



I've been able to get some good finishes with carbide then all of a sudden :fan: I ordered a South Bend Bull nose and I think that will give me consistent turns. I machined a brass piece that fit's into the 6061 tubing and had it drilled for a dead center. I think the problem was the brass was too soft and would loosen up if I forgot to adjust it and oil it all the time. So for the heck of it I machined a regular bearing into it and it needs a thrust bearing to make it work right. The tubing is 16" long so it has to be rigid or you get bands in the finish. 
The bull nose will take care of that.
What shape is the nose of your carbide tool?
BTW the 8K is on sale $1,000.00 off. Buy yourself a Christmas present!


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## Swifty

The carbide insert is a DNMG 432P, with a 0.8mm nose radius. Probably not made for aluminium, but works great as an all round tip. If I'm having trouble with surface finish, I will rough out with carbide and finish with HSS.

The discount on the lathe is great, trouble is I live in Australia, freight would kill me.

Paul.


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## mikbul

Swifty said:


> The carbide insert is a DNMG 432P, with a 0.8mm nose radius. Probably not made for aluminium, but works great as an all round tip. If I'm having trouble with surface finish, I will rough out with carbide and finish with HSS.
> 
> The discount on the lathe is great, trouble is I live in Australia, freight would kill me.
> 
> Paul.




 Your HSS tool is not an insert, correct? 
 I got a good finish with an HSS insert but it lasted only I turning on that 6061. I don't know why they make HSS inserts! I'm trying to get out of grinding any tools, I went through that with my sawmill and found sending the blades back to Wood Miser was faster, and they come back perfect. Price was not that much considering time saved. At that time I wanted to be at the sawmill controls, not the grinding and re-kerfing station.

 The cermet stays sharp much longer.


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## mikbul

Swifty said:


> The carbide insert is a DNMG 432P, with a 0.8mm nose radius. Probably not made for aluminium, but works great as an all round tip. If I'm having trouble with surface finish, I will rough out with carbide and finish with HSS.
> 
> The discount on the lathe is great, trouble is I live in Australia, freight would kill me.
> 
> Paul.



I looked up that insert and it's a diamond shape where all my carbide inserts are a triangle with 1/32 nose radius. 
Actually 1/32=.7938 mm so not much diff. from your .8mm
I whipped up another brass plug for the dead center and that's better but can't wait for the bullnose to get here. Also I've decided I'll use the 4" chuck for aluminum pipe only that way if I have a 16" piece in and need to do another job I can pull the chuck and pipe off and leave them connected, stick e'm under the bench and finish anytime. Also I've come to the conclusion that I'll have to order a little extra for chuck up waste instead of trying to turn the last piece around finish the turn. The first photo's of cermet dry on one side and WD40 on the other, I don't see enough difference to bother with the WD.


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## Swifty

The more I machine the piece of aluminium that I have, I'm convinced that it's a piece of hard "tooling aluminium" used for moulds. 
Some of the extruded aluminium is fairly soft and gooey to machine.

Paul.


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## mikbul

I turned two pieces of 6061, one with Cermet and the other with carbide. A good finish was achieved with carbide but with more work, a couple extra light passes to clean up the surface. That wasn't necessary with the cermet but a final light pass did improve the finish slightly. This is not a real absolute comparison because of the less than ideal tube plug for the center made of brass, wears fast, needs constant adjustment etc. etc. As soon as my South Bend Bullnose arrives I'll have a re-do.

First photo is Cermet, 2nd &3rd carbide, 4th carbide cleaned up, 5th cermet, and last both side by side. Carbide's on the right.


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## mikbul

Swifty said:


> The more I machine the piece of aluminium that I have, I'm convinced that it's a piece of hard "tooling aluminium" used for moulds.
> Some of the extruded aluminium is fairly soft and gooey to machine.
> 
> Paul.


 
 I think your right about the soft aluminum, I've machined aluminum on a bridgeport that was harder and just got small tooling lines, I actually like those. The front forks on my Ducati are like that, if you run your fingernail down them you get a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I like that!
 I've always wanted to go to Australia, tell you what, I'll grab an 8K for you and hop a freighter, kill two birds with one stone.


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## mikbul

Swifty said:


> The more I machine the piece of aluminium that I have, I'm convinced that it's a piece of hard "tooling aluminium" used for moulds.
> Some of the extruded aluminium is fairly soft and gooey to machine.
> 
> Paul.



Here's some aluminum I machined on the Bridgeport about 12 years ago, You can see I'm no machinist but the aluminum was harder and I think easier to machine. That Bridgeport was an amazing machine, wish I had one. I can still use it but I'd have to drive to Connecticut.
The dovetails on the bar came out ok but the slots are a mess.


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## Swifty

At the moment there are other priorities on new purchases, I would eventually like to have a small CNC mill. My current mill is a "King Rich", I think that it's made in Taiwan, it's an excellent machine based on the Bridgeport, but a little bit larger. 

We had several Bridgeports at work, some US built and some UK built, the build quality of my mill is equal to the genuine Bridgeports. A lot of people will not touch Taiwanese machines, but the dearer machines are very good quality.

Paul.


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## idahoan

I have also heard that Sharp machines are as good as or better than a Bridgeport

Dave


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## mikbul

idahoan said:


> I have also heard that Sharp machines are as good as or better than a Bridgeport
> 
> Dave


I've heard there pretty Sharp! Sorry, couldn't help myself and I'm no mill expert so take no offense.:hDe:


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## Swifty

I assume that Bridgeport came up with the original design, someone may be able to confirm this, but what a good design. It's been copied by so many manufactures over the years. I gave up buying Bridgeports at work when I was able to buy just as good for 2/3 of the price as a new Bridgeport.

Paul.


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## mikbul

Swifty said:


> I assume that Bridgeport came up with the original design, someone may be able to confirm this, but what a good design. It's been copied by so many manufactures over the years. I gave up buying Bridgeports at work when I was able to buy just as good for 2/3 of the price as a new Bridgeport.
> 
> Paul.


I'm just lucky to have a good friend who lives at the Yale Observatory and there's a full machine shop in the basement for when it used to be an active part of their Astronomy dept. He also teaches machining at Yale,(he actually does much more, that's a simplification) you'd be surprised at how many depts. have their own machine shop.
 Besides the Bridgeport there's a SB 10K or heavy 10, can't remember which, and loads of other nice old tools.
 He gave me a tour of the main machine shop at Yale once and it's loaded with old and new machines in a huge old bldg.


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## mikbul

Check this out Swifty, one of those guidescope mounts I machined years ago bolted right on my 8K so I can clean up and chamfer the ends of the 2" 6061 tubing I machine. It's near dead center to the chuck, what's the chances of that? The first photo is about where the carriage and rest will be with the compound angled in, with the tool angle and rotating the tool post I should be able to clear the tool tip. I'll machine some threaded delrin tips for the thumbscrews.


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## Swifty

Just goes to show, if you hang on to something long enough, you will eventually find a use for it.

Paul.


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## Wizard69

Swifty said:


> Just goes to show, if you hang on to something long enough, you will eventually find a use for it.  Paul.



I've learned the hard way not to throw things (sell, lend or similar) out too.     Seems like immediately afterwards you have a pressing need for that thing.


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## mikbul

I talked to Brian Miller of Miller Machine today and he told me the SB sleeve I sent him matches no known tapers, Morse, Jarno etc. No wonder his perfect, 0 runout sleeve he made me didn't fit the spindle right. He had me sweep the spindle and send him the numbers to crunch. Also I did the marker test on the other sleeve I had and I think it's good enough to get a taper off of. I'll send him that too. The last photo is the other sleeve.


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## mikbul

Did a quick turn flip turn test for repeatability with a short piece of steel I had left over. I got .609" at both ends with both mics. 5" D1-3 chuck, I'll do the 4" D1-3 later.


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## mikbul

Received the long awaited South Bend bull nose today (lost in warehouse for 4 days). Packaged well and looks like a nice piece. 2nd sleeve well on it's way to Brian and hopefully he can turn it around next week so I can do some tests/alignment. (Headstock, tailstock etc.)


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## mikbul

While my tractor warmed up in the shop waiting for the coming snow storm I ran some tests of the two chucks and also the spindle.


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## mikbul

First up was the four inch that comes with the lathe:

 Runout at chuck face - .0005"
 runout at three inches - .001"


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## mikbul

Next was repeatability by turn/flip/turn test of the 4". 
.590" on one end and .591" on the other. Note the red marked "Best" chuck key shaft.


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## mikbul

Next I put the 5" on: This chuck also has a "Best" chuck key shaft

Runout at chuck face - .0005"
Runout at three inches - .0005"


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## mikbul

Then the turn/flip/turn test on the 5" 

 Both ends: 609"


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## mikbul

I also checked the runout of the spindle 

Runout at spindle bore not measurable with my test dials
Runout at spindle shoulder - .0005"


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## mikbul

After six hours of shuffling snow around I tried out that bull nose, the missing key to the puzzle. As far as I'm concerned that process is sorted out so I can move on to another project. Some will be happy about that!;D
 BTW that was a fresh carbide insert, not even the Cermet!


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## mikbul

To wrap things up I rotated the cermet insert and turned from the tailstock to the red line. The other side is carbide. The last photo should have been sideways, the light plays tricks on your eyes. Just to make things equal I flipped it and put the Cermet on the bottom.


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## mikbul

Finally received my South Bend 5'/8" drill chuck. Center drilling some brass for some other prototypes I'm making. Also nice the 8K let's you slide the tool post to the other side of the stock.


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## mikbul

Got sick of putting up insulation so started on the weight prototype. The unturned part I turned a couple days ago is already getting a patina.


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## mikbul

Partially cut off weight with cut off tool then finished in the band saw...........

 Finished weight, came out exactly 2 lbs. like I calculated...(Yeah right!)


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## mikbul

Center drilled then peck drilled from both ends a piece of 3/16" brass with a 5/64" drill bit. After the bit was 1/2 way in I loosened the tailstock and slid the bit in and out to drill and clear chips, much faster than cranking the tailstock handle. Came out perfectly centered and both holes aligned at the center. This is for a mod to the spindle oiling fittings, I don't care for the ball oilers! The ball oilers are a tap in fit so I'll have to come up with the correct taper for the casting.


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## mikbul

I had to change my plan, there's not enough room for a Gitts type oiler and get the belt door closed. I pulled the fittings out and drilled out the openings until the ball & spring popped out then machined brass plugs. I use an oral syringe and auto brake bleeder hose and it works great. You don't need the syringe but I recommend the clear tubing so you know oil is getting in your bearings.


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## mikbul

I wanted to see how the 8K handled tapping so I switched the belt to low range and tapped out the solid bar prototype I'm machining. I left the tailstock loose so it would follow the tap in and out to clear chips and add fluid. The 8K has a motor and electronics that let you reverse direction without stopping, great for tapping.
Ups dropped off my Brass bar from Online Metals for popping tools out of the spindle. I'll probably shorten it a little!


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## mikbul

Due to lack of interest for some time I won't be posting to South Bend 8K Photos thread. Any interested drop ins should go to PM or CNC Zone, I have on going threads there for the SB1001.
Happy Holidays!


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## Swifty

60 replies and nearly 4000 views, is pretty good. Most postings come to a natural standstill at some stage, don't be disillusioned, that's one nice lathe that you have there. 

Now try posting a build log on the item of your choice.

Paul.


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## Philjoe5

I agree with Paul.  You've given us a lot of information on this lathe that you don't get from the manufacturer.  I've read all your posts and appreciate your efforts.  I have 2 lathes now, and probably won't be trading soon, but if and when I do you've given me a good possibility.  Especially so since I'm a few hours drive from Grizzly.

As a side note, I'm doing a Work in Progress thread here and sometimes I put up a few posts and I don't get any replies.  But when I check the views there might be a few hundred  between posts.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Wizard69

mikbul said:


> Due to lack of interest for some time I won't be posting to South Bend 8K Photos thread. Any interested drop ins should go to PM or CNC Zone, I have on going threads there for the SB1001.
> Happy Holidays!




What do you expect?   This is is a small community to start with.   It isn't that we aren't interested in new machinery, there are a bunch of tool nuts here but after the juicy details thread naturally slow up.  I just don't think a "lack of interest" is the right way to phrase the natural course of events.


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## Swifty

Mikbul, I just checked your postings, of the current total of 49 postings that you have made, all but 4 were on your "South Bend 8K Photos" topic. Perhaps if you join in a bit more on other postings, you will get a bit more from the site, I feel that you are pulling out way too early.

Even just a welcome to new members or a comment about someone else's work will make you known to other members. I liked your posts, but remember that it's a two way street.

Paul.


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## mikbul

First let me say I've enjoyed all your posts and "Lack of interest" was probably not a good choice of words. I'm not an engine machinist and just wanted to bring some info about what I thought could be a useful tool to those of you that are. I'm amazed at the machine work on this site but have no experience so that's why I don't post on any threads, but I have read some. It wasn't an emotional decision, I just don't keep track of the views and thought I was talking to myself!LOL
Anyway, thanks for the reality check
Mike

 PS Swifty your right I should join in on other postings but keeping up with three threads has been keeping me busy, Practical Machinist, CNC Zone and HMEM. I had been waiting for that adapter to finish up some tests of headstock alignment etc.


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## mikbul

I think my version #2 of the aluminum spacer prototype and he said since it's a prototype no charge! I got rid of the expensive and timely aluminum tube and brass ends for a simple solid aluminum bar drilled and threaded. It took 1/3 the time to make and to boot it may be a vibration dampener. I'm waiting for a long spiral tap with an undercut shank to finish the last 1.5" by hand on one end.


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## Tin Falcon

The pictures are great . and do not feel bad I have posts with 300 to 600 looks or readers and 0 or one response. And there are folks here that lurk for years and never or rarely post. It is part of what forums are about. 

It is sad but most not profit groups churches service groups etc 10% of the people contribute 80% of the effort. 

I encourage people to get involved but sometime folks come to get get what they want and are never heard from again . Peoples is peoples what can I say. Just do what you know to be right and do not worry to much about what others do or do not do.

And for others that like this lathe Grizzly just knocked another $300 off the price. 
Tin


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## mikbul

Another 300? That will almost buy you the 5" D1-3 chuck, that chuck is fantastic. I drilled a short 3/16" brass rod out I was going to use for an oil galley and both ends are centered, and I haven't touched the tailstock alignment, that's collet territory(almost LOL). That piece of brass looked like a toothpick in the 5" chuck! I haven't been able to verify yet but I'm starting to believe the factory test record. (for the lathe)


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## mikbul

A bit off topic but interesting and is the type of work I've done and the type of prototypes and parts I make. I just re-machined a small .965 diagonal for a guy in California, all small parts now.
I was contracted by Bridgeport CT. High School to get their Telescope back in working order, as you can see lubricant never saw theses parts. The bearings, races and shafts all cleaned up nicely. Take note of the large brass RA gear, the Dec. shaft threaded (double square) for CI weights and if you look closely fine threads to capture & adjust the setting circles and bearings. The fifth photo is re-assembly, note the small sliding counterweights, that's what the brass weight I just machined on the 8K. The last photo is re-assembled with all secondary scopes attached. The knobs that sick out are for the RA and DEC clutches, and the other is to the Tangent Arm (Slow motion, no motor in Dec)
The third photo shows worm and main gear and worm gearbox. The motor is down below on the pier and drives the gearbox through 4 or 5 universal joints.
In the 4th and 5th photos you can see the setting or degree circles, a lot of machining there. Also the 6th photo shows the large hand wheel to flip the telescope from one side of the pier to the other, perfect balance is needed. 
Last photo is brass sliding weight I just machined that would mount on a rod like photo #5.
 Sorry , realized photo was sideways


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## Philjoe5

Very cool and interesting work you're doing.  I really appreciate the ability to restore or repair a mechanical device that was not maintained.

Cheer,
Phil


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## mikbul

Philjoe5 said:


> Very cool and interesting work you're doing. I really appreciate the ability to restore or repair a mechanical device that was not maintained.
> 
> Cheer,
> Phil




 Thanks Phil, whenever I'm in CT I can use the machine shop at Yale's Bethany Observatory, with Dave's permission of course. There's a 10K, Bridgeport, vertical and horiz. band saws, drill press, big belt sander, welding equip. etc. 
Dave used to do machine work on the atom smasher at Yale and the Big telescopes down in South America and tons of other interesting projects. 
 If I remember correctly a couple parts were taken to the machine shop That I couldn't repair on site.
 Mike


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## mikbul

In the last photo there's a finder scope, a guide scope and a wide field scope all attached to the rear of the main scope. That's the reason for the five counterweights at the front of the main scope.


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## mikbul

I finally received my long 3'8" spiral taps with the cut down shanks and a long shank 5/16" drill bit. I need to tap 1.5" deeper on one end to receive a 2-3'4" stud. Now I can finish the prototype and have it powder coated.


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## Wizard69

Very interesting work on that telescope.   It is unfortunate that stuff like this gets so neglected in our schools.   It doesn't matter if it is a high school, college, private or public, if there is no one there taking a personal interest in the equipment from a mechanical standpoint it gets neglected.  Sad really!  

Glad to see that you are doing a good job resurrecting this telescope.   Science education is something we can't neglect either as it leads to a gullible populace.  

The thing here is that I've had an interest in building a telescope from the ground up but have been sidetracked by other interests, especially the interest in getting my shop built up.   There is a lot of mystery in the night sky.


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## mikbul

Wizard69 said:


> Very interesting work on that telescope. It is unfortunate that stuff like this gets so neglected in our schools. It doesn't matter if it is a high school, college, private or public, if there is no one there taking a personal interest in the equipment from a mechanical standpoint it gets neglected. Sad really!
> 
> Glad to see that you are doing a good job resurrecting this telescope. Science education is something we can't neglect either as it leads to a gullible populace.
> 
> The thing here is that I've had an interest in building a telescope from the ground up but have been sidetracked by other interests, especially the interest in getting my shop built up. There is a lot of mystery in the night sky.


 
If you ever get to that point pm me, When I was out of work and lot's of free time on my hands I built a 12" reflector that took 3rd place at the Stellafane convention. Stellafane's (On the historic landmark registry) an interesting place founded by Russel Porter, Springfield VT machinist, amateur telescope maker and Arctic explorer. As a matter of fact most of the original members also worked at Vermont Machine tool, still open after 30years. He also did all the 3-D drawings for the Palomar telescope.
The Porter Turret telescope looks like a wwI bunker with a turret and girder with two mirrors on it. You can sit inside in the cold and warmly look through the telescope!


----------



## mikbul

It was too damn cold to warm up the shop and I was itching to try out the spiral tap so coffee table will do. The tap went through the 1.5" deeper in no time holding the piece by hand and turning with a little adjustable. If this is any indication the 8K will make short work of it if I don't jam it with chips and break the tap. That's a six inch tap with 2.75" in the hole. I pre-tapped both ends with a plug tap but I might not need to do that, we'll see. Actually to be accurate I center and pilot drill both ends then run the 5/16" drill bit through so it doesn't wander.


----------



## mikbul

I was checking out changing the feed rates and the first six rates your only changing out one pulley, the C pulley. Actually for just feed rates you only change out the B&C pulleys. Loosen thumbscrew tensioner, take off nut and C pulley, put different C pulley and nut on and re-tension belt with thumbscrew. About a minute I think. Of course more involved procedure for threading but as much of that I do it's no problem.
For example:
15T/15T= .0030"/rev. 15T/16T=.0033"/rev. 15T/18T=.0037"/rev. 15T/19T=.00.0039"/rev. 15T/20T=.0041"/rev. 15T/21T=.0043"/rev etc.


----------



## mikbul

mikbul said:


> It was too damn cold to warm up the shop and I was itching to try out the spiral tap so coffee table will do. The tap went through the 1.5" deeper in no time holding the piece by hand and turning with a little adjustable. If this is any indication the 8K will make short work of it if I don't jam it with chips and break the tap. That's a six inch tap with 2.75" in the hole. I pre-tapped both ends with a plug tap but I might not need to do that, we'll see. Actually to be accurate I center and pilot drill both ends then run the 5/16" drill bit through so it doesn't wander.


 
I dilled out 1.5" of the 2.75" of thread on one end and left me 1.25" which is plenty. Also that's 1.25" less I have to tap. I think I can do all the drilling and tapping from one end. 
The first prototype is ready to go to the powder coater, I just have to figure that out since he's not open on weekends. I have more blanks made up so I'll try the new procedure out and maybe have more than one powder coated.


----------



## Philjoe5

> I was itching to try out the spiral tap



Until I used a spiral or "gun" tap I could never understand how you could use a mill or a lathe under power to tap threads.  Now I do.  The first time I used one for a 10-32 thread, I thought I'd used a larger pilot drill than I normally use for 75% threads.  Nope, it just goes right through it

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## mikbul

In between insulating and sanding my ice rink I made another part, I would say this one took half the time. Center drilled, pilot drilled, drilled oversize 1.5," ( still leaves 1.25" of thread on that end) tap drilled with a 5/16" x 6" bit, then power tapped all the way through without stopping with the tailstock loose to slide. The 8K didn't drop a rev., unlike the plug taps you could hear and see the revs drop and time to stop and clear chips. Not with the spiral, it just pushed them out the other end. These spiral taps save time and effort, for a through hole anyway. Then faced and turned that half then switched ends and only had to face, turn, & chamfer, done. A dead center was used in all turning.
I also shot safe tap through the hole until it ran out the other side, all that was needed.


----------



## bazmak

What speed did you tap at and did you use cutting fluid ?


----------



## mikbul

bazmak said:


> What speed did you tap at and did you use cutting fluid ?


 
Tapped at 75 rpms in low range with safe tap tapping fluid. The 45 rpm's in the photos it was already tapped and I let it idle through for the photos.


----------



## Philjoe5

That looks like a seriously long tap.  Length?

Oops, got it from the post before the pix.  Still long though.  Tap drilled 5/16" for a 3/8" - 16 NC?  That's pretty darn good for a small bench lathe under power.

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## mikbul

Philjoe5 said:


> That looks like a seriously long tap. Length?
> 
> Oops, got it from the post before the pix. Still long though. Tap drilled 5/16" for a 3/8" - 16 NC? That's pretty darn good for a small bench lathe under power.
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil


 
True but 1.5 H/P at low range (50-500 rpm, high is 200-2300) is still a lot of power. I think they could have made this lathe a 9" with a longer bed and had plenty of power.


----------



## Wizard69

mikbul said:


> True but 1.5 H/P at low range (50-500 rpm, high is 200-2300) is still a lot of power. I think they could have made this lathe a 9" with a longer bed and had plenty of power.




That is a big endorsement right there!


----------



## mikbul

Just some photos of how you change the feed rate by switching out pulleys and for threading   belt and pulley changes. Pretty easy to do, takes longer to think about what you're doing. The first six feed rates you change just one pulley out, the B pulley. All feed rate changes are done with B&C pulleys. There's one main adjuster for the primary belt from the spindle and the upper and middle pulleys in the back is a nut on a t-bolt to slide the pulley up or down for belt tension. The lower pulley is the leadscrew and they all pivot on the leadscrew. Pretty simple really


----------



## mikbul

I've been off the air so to speak due to spindle bearing issues. Someone at the factory fell asleep at the grease gun and greased my spindle. The SB1001 requires an ISO32 light weight oil, anything heavier will cause excessive machine wear. Hearing a noise from the bearings I pulled the pulley side bearing flange off, which is easy by the way, and found the same black grease that's in all spots that call for it. 
I can't fault the lathe for human error. Tech support has been responsive and helpful and I already have the bearings and races. The spindle was out of stock but they put in a special order for it. I'm not sure what that means but hopefully a spindle at my door sooner.


----------



## mikbul

Yesterday I did a dry run with an old race and my homemade puller/press. I still need to completely clean the seats and surrounding area so nothing gets were it's not supposed to.


----------



## mikbul

The races are in, my homemade puller worked great. A fine threaded bolt like on my other pullers would have been better but I couldn't find a fine thread in 1/2" 8" long at the hardware store. Needed a push with the old race to get the last 1/4". ( ground down the OD so it wouldn't stick.)
I did find a high spot on the shoulder on both sides where I relieved it. The piece of race I cut out would rock on the high spot, I scraped it flat.
Should anyone ever need the puller just pay for shipping both ways.


----------



## FSG

Did Grizzly tech service give you any indication if the grease in the spindle bearings was something they are seeing a lot of? It seems like the kind of thing that would have been done to every machine coming off the assembly line for that batch. I've been giving very serious consideration to one of these lathes, but I would really prefer not to have to overhaul it prior to serious use.


----------



## Wizard69

mikbul said:


> I've been off the air so to speak due to spindle bearing issues. Someone at the factory fell asleep at the grease gun and greased my spindle. The SB1001 requires an ISO32 light weight oil, anything heavier will cause excessive machine wear. Hearing a noise from the bearings I pulled the pulley side bearing flange off, which is easy by the way, and found the same black grease that's in all spots that call for it.
> I can't fault the lathe for human error. Tech support has been responsive and helpful and I already have the bearings and races. The spindle was out of stock but they put in a special order for it. I'm not sure what that means but hopefully a spindle at my door sooner.




What happened to the spindle that it needs to be replaced also?   More importantly what are your intentions for the old spindle?


----------



## mikbul

FSG said:


> Did Grizzly tech service give you any indication if the grease in the spindle bearings was something they are seeing a lot of? It seems like the kind of thing that would have been done to every machine coming off the assembly line for that batch. I've been giving very serious consideration to one of these lathes, but I would really prefer not to have to overhaul it prior to serious use.


 
No indication of a wider issue. My serial # is 1111 manufactured in 2011 almost four years ago so if there were a batch they would know by now if it were more than an isolated issue. I asked the tech at Grizzly two weeks ago the same question and his answer was no, no other grease issues.
Also I've seen photos of the factory floor and they don't do assembly line with one guy standing at the end with a grease gun!
Also the bearing can be inspected by taking three screws out of the pulley side flange or cover. Page six post 59 shows it in place.


----------



## mikbul

Wizard69 said:


> What happened to the spindle that it needs to be replaced also? More importantly what are your intentions for the old spindle?


 
If you look at the raised portions of the spindle those are the bearing seats and their spun. That was the chatter I was getting.


----------



## Swifty

mikbul said:


> No indication of a wider issue. My serial # is 1111 manufactured in 2011 almost four years ago so if there were a batch they would know by now if it were more than an isolated issue. I asked the tech at Grizzly two weeks ago the same question and his answer was no, no other grease issues.



I know that time flies when your having fun with a new lathe, even if it was manufactured in January 2011, it would only just be 3 years old.

I see that there are grease nipples above each bearing, a definite trap, perhaps they should have the spring ball oil points instead. Have you been oiling it during the time that you have had it, what are the factory recommendations ? With a variable speed motor, there are no gears spinning around to splash oil on the bearings. How do they contain the oil in the bearings, I see no sign of oil seals, any excess oil must flow out into the hollow headstock and find it's way onto your bench.

Was it the drag of the grease in the bearings that caused the spindle to rotate in the inners.

The problem may be due to a loose fit of the spindle in the bearing inners. Sorry about all the questions, it looks like a very well made lathe.

Paul.


----------



## mikbul

Swifty said:


> I know that time flies when your having fun with a new lathe, even if it was manufactured in January 2011, it would only just be 3 years old.
> 
> I see that there are grease nipples above each bearing, a definite trap, perhaps they should have the spring ball oil points instead. Have you been oiling it during the time that you have had it, what are the factory recommendations ?
> 
> 
> 
> Paul.


 
I'll forget you asked me if I've been oiling my lathe! stickpoke I read the manual online before I got it to make sure I had the correct lubricants on hand. Also I've posted more than once that the spindle takes an ISO 32 light weight oil.
Post #59 page six will answer that question for you.
Also post #68 page 11 on CNC Zone.


----------



## barnesrickw

I use to know common ISO to SEA oil conversions.  I'm sure there is a chart out there somewhere


----------



## mikbul

barnesrickw said:


> I use to know common ISO to SEA oil conversions. I'm sure there is a chart out there somewhere


 
Hydraulic fluid is ISO 32 like mobil DTE light or John Deere low viscosity Hyguard, Regular Hyguard would be ISO 68.


----------



## Swifty

mikbul said:


> I'll forget you asked me if I've been oiling my lathe! stickpoke I read the manual online before I got it to make sure I had the correct lubricants on hand. Also I've posted more than once that the spindle takes an ISO 32 light weight oil.
> Post #59 page six will answer that question for you.
> Also post #68 page 11 on CNC Zone.



Ouch, I wasn't implying that you weren't oiling it, it looks so new that I thought that you may have had it for a while before you used it, when I referred to the factory recommendations, I was meaning the oiling intervals. The oiling point for the bearing appears to be straight above the outer shell, is there a hole in the shell for the oil to make its way through? I still don't understand why the oil doesn't just flow straight out of the bearing.

I went back and read post 59, and I do recall reading it before but I did not remember it. I usually read every posting on every topic, and it's not possible to recall everything.

Paul.


----------



## mikbul

Swifty said:


> Ouch, I wasn't implying that you weren't oiling it, it looks so new that I thought that you may have had it for a while before you used it, when I referred to the factory recommendations, I was meaning the oiling intervals. The oiling point for the bearing appears to be straight above the outer shell, is there a hole in the shell for the oil to make its way through? I still don't understand why the oil doesn't just flow straight out of the bearing.
> 
> I went back and read post 59, and I do recall reading it before but I did not remember it. I usually read every posting on every topic, and it's not possible to recall everything.
> 
> Paul.


 
No worries! I couldn't remember where the posts were and actually which site there on so not remembering a post a month or two ago is normal. 
Right below the oiler is a straight down hole. Then there's a groove or oil galley machined into the bearing seat from front to back above the race. When you oil it the oil drops straight down on the race and since it can't go towards the headstock because of the shoulder it go's the other way and runs straight down into the rollers and sticks to all the bearing surfaces. Through normal use the bearing will use up the oil through friction, evaporation, etc. So you oil it every day before use and no problems, if you run it hard an extra squirt part way through the day and you're good. I believe it's called total loss oiling, which is nice because you start out every day with new oil and a little left over old. Other than the grease fittings it's a simple but effective design, a couple good squirts and off you go. If you think about it a two stroke motor's bearings run in a mist of oil and gas!
Mikbul


----------



## gambit_mb

Hi Mikbul.

I just wanted to say thank you for documenting your experience with the South Bend 8K.  It was the deciding factor for me to purchase one also.

Sorry to hear about the bearing problems you are experiencing now.  I will sure be checking mine for the grease once it arrives this week.

Good luck and hope your replacement spindle gets a rush delivery so you can start making chips again.


----------



## mikbul

I talked to tech support again today and there has been no other grease in bearing issues, he did say they take some off the truck and lube them up break them in and inspect them occasionally.
Also my spindle will be arriving on the 22nd which gives me plenty of time to make up the sleeve I need to press the chuck side bearing onto it's seat and finish the spanner I've made up for the spindle lock collar. I'll be calling online metals as soon as I measure up the spindle and bearing for the sleeve size. I like making special tools, though it would be easier with a lathe.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Hi Mikbul.
> 
> I just wanted to say thank you for documenting your experience with the South Bend 8K. It was the deciding factor for me to purchase one also.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the bearing problems you are experiencing now. I will sure be checking mine for the grease once it arrives this week.
> 
> Good luck and hope your replacement spindle gets a rush delivery so you can start making chips again.


 
Congrats on the new lathe, you're Gonna love it! Yes please do check the bearing and let me know, I don't believe you will find anything but oil in there. And thank you, you've made my day! 

BTW, if you don't mind I am making a list of serial #'s and MFG. dates just for curiosity's sake and would appreciate yours and anybody else who would like to participate.
Mine is 1111 Mfg. 11-2011. Picked up at Muncy Pa. Warehouse.


----------



## gambit_mb

Once I get here, I will post the information.


----------



## gambit_mb

Just got the lathe home and in the basement tonight.  I tell ya, I wish I was 15 years younger.  268 lbs would of been quite easy back then when I was doing a lot of physical work.  The lathe is a lot heavier than I thought it would be.

The lathe instantly covered itself in frost once in the house so I tried to clean it all of but I won't be starting it up for a while till the electronics dry out.  Have to see how to get to the electronics and put a fan on.

So my serial# is 1130 mfg date is 11/2011.  Obviously, they still aren't selling a lot at the big discount.  They are starting to move though.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Just got the lathe home and in the basement tonight. I tell ya, I wish I was 15 years younger. 268 lbs would of been quite easy back then when I was doing a lot of physical work. The lathe is a lot heavier than I thought it would be.
> 
> The lathe instantly covered itself in frost once in the house so I tried to clean it all of but I won't be starting it up for a while till the electronics dry out. Have to see how to get to the electronics and put a fan on.
> 
> So my serial# is 1130 mfg date is 11/2011. Obviously, they still aren't selling a lot at the big discount. They are starting to move though.


 
There's a fan in the electronics, but good idea, four screw on the back of the electronics tower will get you access. It is a heavy little lathe, I needed a come along to get it up on my bench. I don't think they are selling them sequentially by serial# but time will tell. Thanks again for the info, do you know which location it shipped from?

BTW any one can send me their S/N through private post.

1111 11-2011 Muncy Pa. Home is upstate NY
1130 11-2011 Muncy Pa. Home is Manitoba, Canada


----------



## mygrizzly1022

Gambit-MB 

 PM sent


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## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> There's a fan in the electronics, but good idea, four screw on the back of the electronics tower will get you access. It is a heavy little lathe, I needed a come along to get it up on my bench. I don't think they are selling them sequentially by serial# but time will tell. Thanks again for the info, do you know which location it shipped from?
> 
> BTW any one can send me their S/N through private post.
> 
> 1111 11-2011 Muncy Pa. Home is upstate NY
> 1130 11-2011 ...............Home is Manitoba, Canada



Mine also came from Muncy.


----------



## Wizard69

gambit_mb said:


> So my serial# is 1130 mfg date is 11/2011.  Obviously, they still aren't selling a lot at the big discount.  They are starting to move though.




That isn't a good sign really, it is the second month of 2014 now.   I suspect this model will not be around long, holding stock for over two years is hard in a business.   

It isn't surprising that the lathe is having sales issues as people don't want to pay for quality anymore.    It only took a few moments, in Muncy, to see that this is a far nicer lathe than my old 9x20.   Kinda Jealous even if I've had that 9x20 for a few years now.  



Sent from my iPad using Model Engines


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## mikbul

Look at the German made Wabeco D6000. Same motor, drive train, crosslide, compound, but no 3v way bed, digital tach, and way more expensive. Bigger swing (10.6") and longer bed though. When I said they could have made a bigger lathe with this motor turns out there is. $5-7,000.00 though. In the manual they have optional CNC motors that will bolt right on the 8K. I bet 95% of the drive train and electronics will fit the 8K.


----------



## gambit_mb

Mikbul,

Just wondering if there has been any progress on the adapter for the spindle taper.  And how much is it costing you to get the work done?  If the results are good I might think about getting one myself.  Not sure I really need it though.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Mikbul,
> 
> Just wondering if there has been any progress on the adapter for the spindle taper. And how much is it costing you to get the work done? If the results are good I might think about getting one myself. Not sure I really need it though.


 
I just received it in the mail Saturday. Seems to fit the spindle really well, of course I have a new spindle on the way. If you don't have an expensive test bar you don't really need it. If you are going to turn between centers with a lathe dog you won't need it. You can also buy an MT3 center with a soft tip and put you're compound at 60 degrees and get it perfect. Of course you would have to make a mark on the spindle and the center so it goes on exactly the same way each time you use it. Check you're spindle adapter first.
 Put the center in your spindle, make sure it's seated well by cleaning the spindle bore and center, then stick you're dial indicator on it. I put the cart before the horse. Dial indicate you're spindle bore first, on mine with a 030" test indicator the needle barely moved, and that could have been a minute scratch. Now test your center.

Without a test bar it would be hard to test you're adapter. I put my adapter on the test bar, stuck it between centers and turned the test bar by hand with the indicator on it.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Mikbul,
> 
> Just wondering if there has been any progress on the adapter for the spindle taper. And how much is it costing you to get the work done? If the results are good I might think about getting one myself. Not sure I really need it though.


 
Make sure you clean the chuck well. I had to get mine submerged in clear mineral spirits and keep rotating the scroll with the key, brought the repeatability down from .001-.005" to .001" every time.


----------



## gambit_mb

Mikbul,

So I had a chance to check my spindle bearings for grease.  There is grease is them.  The grease is so thin though, almost like a jelled 80 weight oil.  

What do you think I should do?  I was thinking running some WD-40 in them to clean the grease off so when I oil them, the oil will get to the metal.  And should I do this before the bearing break-in?

Did any of your change gear belts show wear from tracking to one side?  My 120 XL belt is a little worn on one side from tracking.  I haven't started it up yet so must of been from testing


Pat


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Mikbul,
> 
> So I had a chance to check my spindle bearings for grease. There is grease is them. The grease is so thin though, almost like a jelled 80 weight oil.
> 
> What do you think I should do? I was thinking running some WD-40 in them to clean the grease off so when I oil them, the oil will get to the metal. And should I do this before the bearing break-in?
> 
> Did any of your change gear belts show wear from tracking to one side? My 120 XL belt is a little worn on one side from tracking. I haven't started it up yet so must of been from testing
> 
> 
> Pat


 
Don't do the spindle breakin yet. My headstock got hot with the grease and I think that was the initial damage. They have you run it for 10 minutes each direction at 2300 rpm after all the other break in steps. They do test them at the factory. Where you able to loosen the chuck side bearing cover? If it were me I'd disconnect the belt, flush them then oil them good, until it runs out the spindle on both ends. spin it by hand for a bit , drain that oil then re-oil and run it slow for awhile. When you break in the spindle it shouldn't get hot. It will get warm, maybe 20 deg. over ambient. Just get all the grease out then all the WD.
I was sure you'd have a clean bearing, this is one I really hate to be wrong on. At least you caught it before any damage was done.
BTW take a couple photos before you clean the bearings.


----------



## mikbul

BTW I ground down an allen wrench to fit behind the spindle to loosen the three screws on the flange. You just need to loosen that cover, if you take the screws out mark the top, there's a notch that let's the oil down to the bearing so make sure it goes on the same way. The other side can't go on wrong.
Mike


----------



## mikbul

Well I haven't heard from Gambit in over 24 hours so that can't be good.
Unless I hear different from South Bend, expect to have to flush your spindle bearings out if you buy an 8K.


----------



## gambit_mb

So I removed the spindle today and there seems to be no damage done.  I clean  the grease out of the bearings today with WD-40.  After that I assembled the spindle and bearings and pumped some oil in to the bearings and turned by hand until the oil started puddling under the lathe.  Everything is back together now and is ready for the spindle break-in.  

I did't have any iso 32 oil for the spindle bearings so I checked online for a motor oil equivalent.  A 10W motor oil is what they say and for the iso 68 = 20W motor oil.  If there is a problem using motor oil on the spindle bearings, please let me know before I start breaking in the spindle please.  

I took pictures of the bearings but haven't uploaded them to the 'puter yet.  Will do when I get a chance.  It was my daughters 3rd b-day today and had alot of running around to do.  I think I will finish cleaning up the lathe with mineral spirits tonight and get my butt to bed.


Pat


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> So I removed the spindle today and there seems to be no damage done. I clean the grease out of the bearings today with WD-40. After that I assembled the spindle and bearings and pumped some oil in to the bearings and turned by hand until the oil started puddling under the lathe. Everything is back together now and is ready for the spindle break-in.
> 
> I did't have any iso 32 oil for the spindle bearings so I checked online for a motor oil equivalent. A 10W motor oil is what they say and for the iso 68 = 20W motor oil. If there is a problem using motor oil on the spindle bearings, please let me know before I start breaking in the spindle please.
> 
> I took pictures of the bearings but haven't uploaded them to the 'puter yet. Will do when I get a chance. It was my daughters 3rd b-day today and had alot of running around to do. I think I will finish cleaning up the lathe with mineral spirits tonight and get my butt to bed.
> 
> Congrats on her 3rd birthday! John Deere Hyguard low viscosity is ISO 32 if you have a dealer nearby. I'm not sure about the 10w motor oil. ISO 32 is basically hydraulic fluid. Let me see what I can find out about the 10w motor oil.
> Did you mark the spindle locking collar to get the same preload? The procedure for preload adjustment is loosen up the spindle until you feel movement by hand. Set your dial indicator on the face of the spindle and depress it .100". tighten the locking collar until the indicator needle stops moving. At that point you have no play and no preload. Tighten the collar an additional 1/16". If you run it and it gets hot back it off a hair. Even to 0 preload for breakin if it gets too hot ten add a little back in after.


----------



## gambit_mb

Thanks for the info on preload.  I had no idea.  I probably would have prematurely worn out my bearings the way i did it.  I tightened until it was very tight but the spindle could still be turned by hand.

Is that info in the manual because I didn't see it.  Or did you get that from Grizzly tech support?


Pat


----------



## gambit_mb

I am using the 10W motor oil based on the charts I found on this page at engineeringtoolbox.com

There are charts comparing all types of oils.  I am just curious if the equivalents have different additives that could cause premature wear of the bearings.  I thought I had seen something somewhere about sulfur content in motor oils being high, but can't remember if that was a bad thing.  And also most motor oils contain detergent.  Don't know if this causes any bad effects either.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Thanks for the info on preload. I had no idea. I probably would have prematurely worn out my bearings the way i did it. I tightened until it was very tight but the spindle could still be turned by hand.
> 
> Is that info in the manual because I didn't see it. Or did you get that from Grizzly tech support?
> 
> 
> Pat


 
It's not in the manual, they sent it to me. I just talked to tech support and you should report what you found and they can e-mail you a copy of the pre-load instructions, they are for a grizzly machine but the procedure is the same. He also recommended the hydraulic fluid over the motor oil. Mobil DTE Light, hyguard low viscosity, or an equivalent to the hyguard.

There should be almost no preload on those bearings because when they heat up there's no place to expand to. I forgot to mention you set the preload after warming up the spindle for twenty minutes, the lit. they sent me said at high speed to bring it to normal working temp. This is for an already broken in spindle so ignore that, I would run it at 0 preload until it warms up then set preload then go about breakin. If it gets too hot back off a little on the preload.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I am using the 10W motor oil based on the charts I found on this page at engineeringtoolbox.com
> 
> There are charts comparing all types of oils. I am just curious if the equivalents have different additives that could cause premature wear of the bearings. I thought I had seen something somewhere about sulfur content in motor oils being high, but can't remember if that was a bad thing. And also most motor oils contain detergent. Don't know if this causes any bad effects either.


 
The hydraulic fluid will actually handle the loads better than the 10w motor oil. He also said you and I are the only two cases of grease in the spindle bearings reported?


----------



## barnesrickw

When I ran heavy duty gear boxes for sludge tank mixers, etc we sometimes used a HP or high pressure oil.  It had additives like zinc.  Not sure this is the right application, but I'm sure they make an oil for any application.  The only problem is finding them in quantities under 5 gal.  


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----------



## barnesrickw

Thanks for the link by the way.  


Sent from my iPad using Model Engines


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> The hydraulic fluid will actually handle the loads better than the 10w motor oil. He also said you and I are the only two cases of grease in the spindle bearings reported?



That is probably because nobody else has bothered to look.  Once they screw their spindles, I'm sure SB - Griz will find out the same thing we did.  

I am thankful for this thread Mikbul.  You saved me the hassle of ruining my spindle.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> That is probably because nobody else has bothered to look. Once they screw their spindles, I'm sure SB - Griz will find out the same thing we did.
> 
> I am thankful for this thread Mikbul. You saved me the hassle of ruining my spindle.


Thank you,
I started this whole thing out because there was no real info out there and this is the only way to find out. Get the people who buy them to take a few minutes to look like yourself. Thanks again and keep us informed, but most of all watch that little one!
Mike


----------



## Swifty

I would definitely not use motor oil because of the detergent in it, hydraulic oil is the way to go.

Paul.


----------



## mikbul

I have a theory, and that's all it is. The other spindle failures could have been grease caused but the longer you run it and the more you oil it the more watered down the grease gets, but the damage is already done. When they take it apart it doesn't look like grease, just thick oil. Look at these two photos, one on the bench is definitely grease with an oil coating. The one on the spindle is much more watered down. One day I wondered were the oil would go if you over oiled it and black goo ran down from the swarf guard. So I thinned the grease out on the chuck side but the damage was already done.


----------



## mikbul

If you're wondering about the swarf guard SB calls it a gasket. It's the black ring that press fits behind the spindle nose. Here's some photos of it and the notch where the oil drops down into the rollers.


----------



## gambit_mb

I finally got to breaking in my spindle bearings and when I finished, the bearings were no warmer than a 5 minute old cup of coffee.  So I would assume the pre-load is perfect.  Thanks for the pre-load info Mikbul.

I seem to have a problem with the carriage rack and gear meshing.  It seems like the carriage sticks in 5-6 places.  I loosed the bolt at the chuck side of the front plate on the carriage and now it runs smooth.  Did you have a similar problem Mikbul?  I am wondering if there is something that can be adjusted or if I should just shim the plate and run like that.

Congrats.  I see your post on CNC Zone found another owner.  I found the post had some good info.  I guess the guys at SB - Griz have short memories.  He also reported greese in his bearings back in 2012.  Not surprised!  He must of been pissed after probably paying full price at $3300.


Pat.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I finally got to breaking in my spindle bearings and when I finished, the bearings were no warmer than a 5 minute old cup of coffee. So I would assume the pre-load is perfect. Thanks for the pre-load info Mikbul.
> 
> I seem to have a problem with the carriage rack and gear meshing. It seems like the carriage sticks in 5-6 places. I loosed the bolt at the chuck side of the front plate on the carriage and now it runs smooth. Did you have a similar problem Mikbul? I am wondering if there is something that can be adjusted or if I should just shim the plate and run like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would pull the rack and see if there's anything like paint keeping it from seating up under the ways. I don't think you can shim the apron because of the half nut alignment, though a very thin shim may not hurt. Relooking at the website photos the rack has alignment pins so that shouldn't be the problem. I would still pull it and carefully set it upside down on the ways to see if it is straight.
> Looking at the parts blow up I believe the half nut will compensate on it's own for a thin shim.
> 
> I deleted that list on CNC Zone because I have no way of confirming it and that's not fair to Grizzly. I just want to help out new owners but they need to report warranty issues and leave the old warranty issues to Grizzly.
> 
> That's great news about the spindle break in! I'm hoping my second time around goes ok.


----------



## mikbul

I measured the bearing seats today and came up with 1.7706" on both. Tried to measure the bearing ID but I don't have an inside mic or a bore gauge large enough. I believe .0005" per inch for an interference fit is what I remember. 
By bearing # this 45mm ID or 1.7717", something doesn't add up but what has lately?


----------



## mikbul

Well good news today one of the heads of Grizzly tech support personally called me to tell me my spindle came in air mail, six weeks sooner than the standard shipment!
Got to thank tech support for the special order and air mail.
BTW, found some 32009XP5 bearings I think I'll upgrade to from FAG from Germany, There listed on find a ball bearing.
Here's a little copy of the different grades etc. Excuse the school house drawing.


----------



## mikbul

ifyufhudhpudhuhvgf9hd9huhfudhjdfuhudhfuhdfh9uhfuhfhduhfuhuhdfuhduhsapahuhffuhudshuhuhuhfhfuhuhuhuhudhuhfuhuhdsuhhdushfuhushfuhufudshuhfhuhduhuduhdh


----------



## mikbul

mikbul said:


> ifyufhudhpudhuhvgf9hd9huhfudhjdfuhudhfuhdfh9uhfuhfhduhfuhuhdfuhduhsapahuhffuhudshuhuhuhfhfuhuhuhuhudhuhfuhuhdsuhhdushfuhushfuhufudshuhfhuhduhuduhdh


 
Oh yea, well eggewugeyguygegtfgvuyhdggyyugdeyguygfytgyuegdgyegfyuegfyegfyyegyegfeygfyegfygfygeygfyuegfyegf


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Oh yea, well eggewugeyguygegtfgvuyhdggyyugdeyguygfytgyuegdgyegfyuegfyegfyyegyegfeygfyegfygfygeygfyuegfyegf



It looks as if the time that has been taken away from you to be using your lathe has started to get to you.  Ha!Ha!Ha!

I am glad to see that you will now have your new spindle really soon.  It has been nearly 2 months already since you have been down, hasn't it?

By the way, what is the cost on the FAG bearings?


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> It looks as if the time that has been taken away from you to be using your lathe has started to get to you. Ha!Ha!Ha!
> 
> I am glad to see that you will now have your new spindle really soon. It has been nearly 2 months already since you have been down, hasn't it?
> 
> By the way, what is the cost on the FAG bearings?


 
Yea I had a crazy moment last night! Those FAG bearings are $82.00 and are supposed to be made in Germany Or Austria by FAG. I just ordered them and asked them to confirm country of manufacture when they pull them off the shelf. I'll let you know.
BTW how's the new mill and lathe?


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Yea I had a crazy moment last night! Those FAG bearings are $82.00 and are supposed to be made in Germany Or Austria by FAG. I just ordered them and asked them to confirm country of manufacture when they pull them off the shelf. I'll let you know.
> BTW how's the new mill and lathe?



I haven't been able to use them yet.  I blew my budget on the equipment so I have been collecting my pennies for some tooling.  I am going to start with the lathe and once I get enough tooling for it I will start with the mill.  I am getting so damn anxious to make some chips. 

The price of $82, is that a piece or a pair?


----------



## mikbul

I haven't been able to use them yet. I blew my budget on the equipment so I have been collecting my pennies for some tooling. I am going to start with the lathe and once I get enough tooling for it I will start with the mill. I am getting so damn anxious to make some chips. 

The price of $82, is that a piece or a pair?[/quote]

That's $82 apiece, they should be good and he has 72 of them. I've been visiting an ex GE machinist a few times and got some nice deals on good tools. He wanted me to buy all his boring bars, 75 of them! They're all sharp or been sharpened by the GE tool room. I bought a third for 20 bucks or something. He has a large coffee can full of end mills in their sleeves. I have thought about buying it for if I get a mill. If not sell them. Thing is these are older with the better steel. I'll shoot a couple pictures of some recent purchases. The Brown & Sharpe Mic is a beauty and swiss made, I don't want to tell you the price you'll cry!
He still has a bunch of B&S & Tesa inside mics and other stuff. The middle and left mics are both B&S Swiss made.


----------



## mikbul

My D1-3 Spindle is on the way and the bearings should be. Things are looking up for the 8K. Out of work sick today and that should make me feel better but it doesn't.  Been working on a setup to check bearing runout off the lathe. Just curious to know and these P5's better be better. 329009 bearings with a P5 suffix are special order with a 65 week lead time! These 72 bearings must have been a special order that never got paid for and went on the surplus block. Time will tell.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I haven't been able to use them yet. I blew my budget on the equipment so I have been collecting my pennies for some tooling. I am going to start with the lathe and once I get enough tooling for it I will start with the mill. I am getting so damn anxious to make some chips.
> 
> The price of $82, is that a piece or a pair?


 
Here's a photo of the boring bars, he has bigger. I forgot to mention about the end mills, if I get them I won't need them all if your interested in some.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Here's a photo of the boring bars, he has bigger. I forgot to mention about the end mills, if I get them I won't need them all if your interested in some.



I would be interested in some boring bars and some end mills under 3/4in.  Let me know when you get them and we can work something out.  A 2.5 - 3 in. 45 degree facemill would be nice too.  LOL......


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I would be interested in some boring bars and some end mills under 3/4in. Let me know when you get them and we can work something out. A 2.5 - 3 in. 45 degree facemill would be nice too. LOL......


 
I'll try and get ahold of him. I know he had macular surgery or whatever on his eyes so I've left him alone for a couple weeks. I see his ad's off of craigslist so that could mean he doesn't want to bother right now, he sold everything, or he's still got everything,  a phone call won't hurt.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I would be interested in some boring bars and some end mills under 3/4in. Let me know when you get them and we can work something out. A 2.5 - 3 in. 45 degree facemill would be nice too. LOL......


 
Well I just talked to George and he said "I can see" which is good news! Said he's going to the library tomorrow so I think it's been awhile since he can read. He really is a great guy and a wealth of machining knowledge! He still has the end mills and boring bars. I'm going to buy them all which made him happy, and there will be plenty to set you up. The end mills are 3/8", 1/2", and 5'8". He wasn't sure how many and there's about 50 boring bars left.
I'm going down there tomorrow morning so later on in the day I'll let you know how many/how much etc.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I would be interested in some boring bars and some end mills under 3/4in. Let me know when you get them and we can work something out. A 2.5 - 3 in. 45 degree facemill would be nice too. LOL......


 
BTW all the boring bars are Bokum made in Detroit, good stuff.


----------



## rtp_burnsville

Hi,

I just read your entire thread.....  Great job!

I have looked at this lathe for sometime, I may just have to order one.  The spindle bore is much larger than my SB9 which would be very handy.

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## Sshire

I really have to admire your restraint. If I had purchased, what I believed to be, a first-rate lathe, and had the spindle and bearing issues, I would have either returned it, or insisted that they send a tech to make it right. I understand that with most Chinese machinery, it is to be expected that it's not a finished product and some work and/ or mods will be necessary. This was the case with my Grizzly G0602. It worked fine out of the box but I've done some work to make it smoother, more rigid, etc.
With a "South Bend" ( quotes intentional) I would expect that it was a finished product. I do understand that things can go wrong, but if the issue is a factory defect ( witness grease on the bearings) , the factory ( in this case Grizzly) has to make it right without the owner doing the repair. 
Let's say we purchase a new automobile and there is a wheel bearing problem. I take it to the dealer and they repair it under warranty. They certainly don't ship me the replacement bearings and say "have at it." 
You can't just drive the lathe to Grizzly if you are a thousand miles away and even if youre close, moving a lathe out of the shop, into a truck or onto a trailer is not a trivial task. 
It seems that we are now expected, after spending thousands of dollars (or whatever you unit of currency happens to be) on a tool, to repair an in-warrenty problem. This is not acceptable. 
I don't know what the solution is. Grizzly is not a small Mom and Pop distributor. They have major resources, but it appears that these resources are directed more toward sales than toward customer service.
While anytime I had an issue with my lathe, Grizzly was very good about sending parts, this is what we should expect. That's only a part of the solution.
Suppose you have never replaced a bearing or removed a spindle. I would be quite uncomfortable tearing down a new, multi- thousand dollar lathe.
Forgive the rant and rambling and I don't have an answer.
Just saying.


----------



## wrljet

Stan,

Agreed.  But what is our alternative?
Perhaps we don't have room for a vintage machine.

Bill


----------



## mikbul

rtp_burnsville said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just read your entire thread..... Great job!
> 
> I have looked at this lathe for sometime, I may just have to order one. The spindle bore is much larger than my SB9 which would be very handy.
> 
> Thanks,
> Robert


 
I can once again say with some certainty I would recommend this lathe at this price. If you read my thread then you know what you need to do before spindle break in. GAMBIT-MB took care of his and break in temps were good. You may find no grease which would be a bonus. Keep us posted!


----------



## mikbul

Sshire said:


> I really have to admire your restraint. If I had purchased, what I believed to be, a first-rate lathe, and had the spindle and bearing issues, I would have either returned it, or insisted that they send a tech to make it right. I understand that with most Chinese machinery, it is to be expected that it's not a finished product and some work and/ or mods will be necessary. This was the case with my Grizzly G0602. It worked fine out of the box but I've done some work to make it smoother, more rigid, etc.
> With a "South Bend" ( quotes intentional) I would expect that it was a finished product. I do understand that things can go wrong, but if the issue is a factory defect ( witness grease on the bearings) , the factory ( in this case Grizzly) has to make it right without the owner doing the repair.
> Let's say we purchase a new automobile and there is a wheel bearing problem. I take it to the dealer and they repair it under warranty. They certainly don't ship me the replacement bearings and say "have at it."
> You can't just drive the lathe to Grizzly if you are a thousand miles away and even if youre close, moving a lathe out of the shop, into a truck or onto a trailer is not a trivial task.
> It seems that we are now expected, after spending thousands of dollars (or whatever you unit of currency happens to be) on a tool, to repair an in-warrenty problem. This is not acceptable.
> I don't know what the solution is. Grizzly is not a small Mom and Pop distributor. They have major resources, but it appears that these resources are directed more toward sales than toward customer service.
> While anytime I had an issue with my lathe, Grizzly was very good about sending parts, this is what we should expect. That's only a part of the solution.
> Suppose you have never replaced a bearing or removed a spindle. I would be quite uncomfortable tearing down a new, multi- thousand dollar lathe.
> Forgive the rant and rambling and I don't have an answer.
> Just saying.


 
Bearing failure is not a certainty if you take the three screws out of the bearing flange and inspect the bearing. No grease, good to go. If I had this information a few months ago I would have looked and figured it out. If you spent some time using this lathe cleaning a couple bearings would not be such an inconvenience, after all, you have to clean out everything else. BTW it's made in Taiwan in a special factory with German and Japanese machine tools along with the 10K etc. I get your drift but at this sale price I'd rather do the work myself, now I know what's in there and can take care of it. I'm working on a couple of mods to the oiling setup to put the bearings in one of the industry standard categories (more on that later). One mod is was already done months ago, pull the grease fittings, drilled out the ball & spring and made brass plugs for them, now you don't have to fight the ball & spring to get oil in there. When I get the rest worked out I'll post it, in fact it'll be a long and informative post.
Thanks Stan,


----------



## wrljet

Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread, but what is needed to put 5C collets on this lathe?
The through hole isn't quite large enough for the standard 5C drawbar, is it?

Bill


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I would be interested in some boring bars and some end mills under 3/4in. Let me know when you get them and we can work something out. A 2.5 - 3 in. 45 degree facemill would be nice too. LOL......


 
Well Gambit I haven't got to the end mills yet but here's a photo of the boring bars after a little cleanup, as I said they are all Bokum's except the giant Enco. I need to make an inventory of what I've got and figure out some pricing. If I'm not wrong some of those tiny boring bars would be perfect for model engine making, some of the cutters are so small I need cheaters to see them. Being an R/C Sailplane guy myself I've got a lot of small special tools. Not that a sailplane is an engine by no means.


----------



## Sshire

Perhaps I should have addressed this in a more general tone. I love your lathe and the newer price makes it a very good buy. 

I think where I was going with this was all home shop machinery, no matter the cost or quality, puts the burden of being the distributor's QC and warranty repair facility on the purchaser. 
Very few other mechanical devices require that of the owner. Looking around I see a generator, central heating and A/C, car, kitchen appliances, etc. These all have service guys who come to my house if they need repair. 
Just my observations on the difference between what we use to build engines and other categories. 




Sent from my iPhone using Model Engines


----------



## mikbul

wrljet said:


> Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread, but what is needed to put 5C collets on this lathe?
> The through hole isn't quite large enough for the standard 5C drawbar, is it?
> 
> Bill


I don't believe it is Bill, but, the inside of the spindle is quite rough and I believe it could be smoothed a little. Whether that would be enough I don't know. I put a 5" South Bend chuck on and like J.R with the 10k (he did a review on PM) he said "I didn't think it was possible to get repeatability like this with a chuck" That was with a turn flip turn test and with his digital Mitutoto he got 50 Millionths runout. I did the same with mine but don't have a digital mic. so my tenths mic gave me the same reading on turn flip turn.


----------



## mikbul

Sshire said:


> Perhaps I should have addressed this in a more general tone. I love your lathe and the newer price makes it a very good buy.
> 
> I think where I was going with this was all home shop machinery, no matter the cost or quality, puts the burden of being the distributor's QC and warranty repair facility on the purchaser.
> Very few other mechanical devices require that of the owner. Looking around I see a generator, central heating and A/C, car, kitchen appliances, etc. These all have service guys who come to my house if they need repair.
> Just my observations on the difference between what we use to build engines and other categories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Model Engines


 
You're right there, being a certified Generac Generator Tech I don't see too many customers pulling a new engine to change a seal! Lathes or machine tools in this price range are a world unto themselves. A 40-50-60,000 dollar machine I'm sure would see a tech if a warranty issue turned up. It may not be a tech from the company, maybe a licensed machine repair co. under contract for that part of the country.
I definitely wouldn't be hauling the lathe back to PA. or re-crate it and have it trucked, easier to fix it and it's going back together my way. But I'm a strange case anyway!


----------



## mikbul

I should have said back together my way within bounds of the warranty, as I see it preload correct and proper lubrication and spindle bearing break-in.
There are very few machines I've worked on or seen that don't have some kind of warranty issue. My Ducati being one (so far) and the perfect machine, the 200 inch Palomar Telescope. When they made that telescope they had to write the book. Conventional bearings wouldn't work because of the weight, so they float it on a thin film of pumped oil. The tube is so heavy, in the horizontal position both ends sag 3 or six inches! Thing is they found out about a French Engineer named Mark Surrier and the Surrier Truss. The way it's designed both ends sag equally and the ends naturally rotate slightly to keep the mirrors aligned! When Corning glass works finally made a good mirror it sagged under it's own weight, so they made up mechanical weights in each honeycomb to keep the mirror straight in any position. (now its done digitally)
Makes a spindle with two bearings sound kind of simple doesn't it!

BTW read the book "The Perfect Machine"


----------



## Sshire

That is fascinating.
I'll definitely read the book.
Thanks


----------



## mikbul

mikbul said:


> Well Gambit I haven't got to the end mills yet but here's a photo of the boring bars after a little cleanup, as I said they are all Bokum's except the giant Enco. I need to make an inventory of what I've got and figure out some pricing. If I'm not wrong some of those tiny boring bars would be perfect for model engine making, some of the cutters are so small I need cheaters to see them. Being an R/C Sailplane guy myself I've got a lot of small special tools. Not that a sailplane is an engine by no means.


 
Here's the end mills, woodruff key cutters, center drills, reamers etc. All the un-sleeved end mills were taped up and will be again after inspection. Some of this stuff I'll keep but the rest will be up for sale.


----------



## mikbul

Here's a few close ups I think in better focus of the end Mills.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Here's a few close ups I think in better focus of the end Mills.



That looks like a nice selection of end mills and also boring bars from the other posts.  

What is the diameter of the face mill you have sitting there?  Looks like around 2".


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> That looks like a nice selection of end mills and also boring bars from the other posts.
> 
> What is the diameter of the face mill you have sitting there? Looks like around 2".


 
The face mill with the carbide inserts is 1-3/8". The largest end mill is 7/8". I'm doing an inventory today probably since I'm home from work an I'll give you all the sizes.


----------



## mikbul

I have an Aloris A3 tool holder that will go 1/2" and smaller. I will end up putting this stuff on the classifieds but want to give you guys who visit the thread first pick.
For now I decided to keep the Boring bar holder, If I get a lantern style just for that it'll be rigid as hell.


----------



## mikbul

A picture is worth a thousand words.


----------



## mikbul

Here's the end mill Inv. before it goes to the classifieds.


----------



## mikbul

And the boring bars. $5.00 apiece with a minimum of ten of any size.


----------



## mikbul

Well the bearings came today and the spindle yesterday, how's that for timing! I haven't opened them up yet but maybe after dinner. I was working on a couple micrometers, A Tesa and a Brown & Sharpe. Their both hanging in the shop with a new coat of paint.


----------



## mikbul

I am very happy to see the word Germany and P5 on my bearings! There are 70 left on the Locate ball bearing site.


----------



## mikbul

Here's the measurements on the new and old spindle. I like these better.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> And the boring bars. $5.00 apiece with a minimum of ten of any size.



Is that $5 for boring bars and end mills?


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Is that $5 for boring bars and end mills?


 
Except for the Carbide face mill. I haven't come up with a price yet. None of these tools are made in china so it's hard finding comparative pricing. I've been thinking on the end mills, I would like some boring bars taken along with end mills. They're good quality boring bars and I need to move them. This is not written in stone but more like I'm asking. If you don't need boring bars I understand. I know you asked about the face mill before so I'll try and figure out that today. 
We should probably take this to private messaging.


----------



## mikbul

Just to clarify the boring bar sizes: 0000A is the smallest cutter head and 3 is the largest except the 7 & 9 screw on tips.
Then they jump to longer shanks but same cutters then extra long etc.


----------



## mikbul

Thanks Larry, don't think I don't notice!


----------



## Hilmar

Hi Guys,
Are those boring bars or   Internal Threading Bars ?
Hilmar


----------



## mikbul

Hilmar said:


> Hi Guys,
> Are those boring bars or Internal Threading Bars ?
> Hilmar


 
They're boring bars, or to be more specific the A's & B's are boring bars and the C's are internal threading. The C's are all sold. A new inventory will be posted shortly.
I called George (ex GE machinist) and asked him why he had so many. Turns out they are a friends collection he used at GE to mostly take on special internal threading projects in Iconel if I spelled that right. He said some of the projects had three separate threads in the same hole, stepped down hole I expect? He said if one in 15 parts turned out bad he got upset. I love digging stories out of George! Reminds me of my dad's 40 years of stories at GE you had to drag out of him.

I'm surprised no one on HMEM is interested in these, but of course they may not be what you need for small engine machine work? I'll try to find out in the future just what tools are sought after for HMEM.


----------



## mikbul

End mills are all sold. Thirty boring bars left.


----------



## mikbul

Finally getting around to clean the new spindle, if I wash it well my daughter will never know I used her plastic container!


----------



## mikbul

Here's the alcohol after. This was the second cleaning! I'll clean it one more time before assembly.


----------



## mikbul

Here's the runout measurements from the new spindle. First the swarf guard shoulder 0 run out, camlock taper .00025" run out, morse taper 0 run out.


----------



## mikbul

The pulley end run out was just over .0005".


----------



## mikbul

I was thinking about that .00025" run out in the camlock taper and decided to check the bearing shoulder I was using to run against the V- block. It's out 00025" so it's not the taper. That shoulder is a non issue as far as seating the bearing but moved the spindle in and out throwing off my measurement.


----------



## mikbul

I pulled the races back out of the headstock on the 8K yesterday and scraped any dings I made in the shoulder lip to get ready for the p5's. I still have some other prep work to do as far as the oiling goes. I want to get the races in, set a bearing in on the chuck side, bolt the flange on and see how much oil it holds before overflowing. I know the flange is even with the middle of the bottom roller on the chuck side, right on per Timkin, so oil level can get no higher before running out on the bench. On the pulley side there is no oil escape at that height so I may drill one in the flange. Also waiting for the tubing to press the bearing on the chuck side.
Today I cleaned the FAG P5'S and found no dirt, specs of metal etc. Just storage oil. These bearings are so much smoother the noise is a third of the standard bearings when you rotate them and nice straight lines of reflection in the races. Now I know where the Z comes from in ZNL.


----------



## mikbul

Finished fitting my NOS Mitutoyu (# 102-226) in an old B&S Case I got for $20.00, sure beats that crème colored plastic case! That's the kind of case it should have come with, I don't think there's too many trees to log in Japan so lumber is probably high. On the other hand B&S uses Mahogany (Swiss products) and the price shows it, good stuff though.
Could have got the felt a little tighter on the bottom but somebody glued the foam in without using it as a template!;D
I'll just run a bead of green paint around so the wood doesn't stick out like a new haircut.


----------



## mikbul

Here's some other mics. waiting for me to finish restoring. Four I got for $10.00. apiece. The Starrettt 230, JT Slocumb, Central tool, and Reed Small Tool Works. The Union Tool I've had for a long time stuck in a drawer. The Etalon was more but not much. They're all going into my collection. The Central Tool was the best $10.00 mic. I ever bought. It's just like the Starrett 230 .001" with a lever lock. I have a Starrett 230 I use but .0001" .
I almost forgot the 1941 Lufkin, needs more work, the spindle's still a little tight.
Forgot the Starrett #2


----------



## mikbul

Awe Hell I just took another picture with the Lufkin and Starrett # 2


----------



## mikbul

I still have the TESA case to poly, the mic. is done. The Swiss use hidden hinges on their cases, no screws, that's how you can tell it's Swiss. George wore the edges off the top of the case , said he really liked that mic. so it got a new top & bottom. 
Going to slip the bearing races in the 8K tomorrow so I can get going on that.


----------



## mikbul

I was just looking at the mics hanging there and realized the Central Tool is .0001". That really makes it the best $10.00 mic I ever bought!


----------



## mikbul

"It Feels like Dejavu all over again" A quote from Famous baseball legend Yogi Berra. That's how it felt pulling the races out of the 8K and pressing the new ones in. For anybody not following this thread the new standard races were junk so in goes FAG P5's.


----------



## mikbul

If you liked that Yogi quote hears a couple more, if you didn't surf to the next channel.

"I never said most of the things I said"

" Half the lies they tell about me aren't true"

"Little league baseball is a very good thing because it keeps the parents off the streets"*knuppel2*


----------



## mikbul

The swarf guard is on the new spindle, The camlocks are out of the old, The tube is cut to length to press on the outer bearing. I need to square the ends of the tubing and get a couple big honk'in washers. I also checked oil volume in the bottom of the bearing housing, about 2-2.5 ml. before it starts to run out.
The tubing is perfect, with the journals taped up the tubing centers on the journals and bearings.


----------



## SilverSanJuan

Yogi was the best for quotes. 

Nice work on all your equipment.  What would you use to remove small spots of surface rust on micrometers?

Todd


----------



## mikbul

It depends on the type of surface. Sometimes just a toothbrush and alcohol while I'm cleaning it, sometimes a toothbrush & oil. If the surface doesn't scratch with a brass wire brush & alcohol or oil, or dry. Watch out for chrome, a brass brush will scratch it, use chrome cleaner and fine steel wool or a scrubby. I'm mainly talking about the thimble & spindle. If the thimble won't clean up I paint it with black enamel. The frame is another story, If it's satin sometimes you can use the brass but test it someplace, if you make a shiny spot in the middle of your satin frame it might look worse than a rust spot. Usually on a satin frame for a rust spot, a grind mark, an etching I'll fill over it with testers silver, looks better than a grind mark. I should get some satin enamel.


----------



## mikbul

Painted frames are the easiest, I just repaint except for the Etalon. The Tesa came out ok but the thimble just won't clean, I'll probably paint it black. It's going in a display case and most people looking at it won't know the difference. It spent many years at GE with George as his favorite mic. so it deserves to be shined up in it's retirement. I even rebuilt the worn out case but not to original, Just to save it. I think the Swiss cases are worth it. Funny thing of all the Swiss cases I've got this was the only one without natural wood on top & bottom. The rest is wood with dovetailed joints. It has birch ply top and bottom now so maybe it's better than OEM?


----------



## SilverSanJuan

Thanks.  What about surface rust on the spindle?

Todd


----------



## mikbul

SilverSanJuan said:


> Thanks. What about surface rust on the spindle?
> 
> Todd


You can wire brush it with a brass brush but if it's pitted you'll have to live with it. Unless it's severe it shouldn't affect the performance.


----------



## mikbul

Here's one of my hand crafted cases, I enjoy woodworking too. Now that I'm fully unemployed these projects are gaining momentum. I have a piece of mahogany calling me along with the 8K. I need to square the ends of that tubing so it presses squarely on the bearing. I'll have to do it with an angle grinder and a Starrett square then smooth it with a file.


----------



## gambit_mb

So which project got your attention today, the piece of mahogany or the 8K? 

Wishing you the best of luck with the bearing installation. 

I saw a webpage that has a 8K cnc conversion in progress.  No detailed pics of the cnc conversion parts but there is a link at the bottom of the page with the prints they used for the stepper motor mounts.  They are trying to run a ball screw down the middle of the bed so they can still use the lead screw manually.  It should be possible but the ball nut mounting will be the difficult part.  It seems to be a project at a technical college.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> So which project got your attention today, the piece of mahogany or the 8K?
> 
> Wishing you the best of luck with the bearing installation.
> 
> I saw a webpage that has a 8K cnc conversion in progress. No detailed pics of the cnc conversion parts but there is a link at the bottom of the page with the prints they used for the stepper motor mounts. They are trying to run a ball screw down the middle of the bed so they can still use the lead screw manually. It should be possible but the ball nut mounting will be the difficult part. It seems to be a project at a technical college.


 
The 8K, I trued up the ends of the tubing the old fashioned way, by hand, a few minutes work on a lathe took quite awhile, of course I was soaking up the sun at the same time. Tomorrow I'll clean out the holes in the spindle nose one more time and see how the camlocks fit, maybe press on the outer bearing.
The mahogany I just have to cut down the middle and let it sit for awhile and release any stress before I plane it flat.
I think Wabeco's CNC conversion would fit the 8K.


----------



## mikbul

SilverSanJuan said:


> Yogi was the best for quotes.
> Todd
> 
> If you don't know Maine, it's accent or type of humor you won't get this:
> 
> A man in a fancy car from Jersey drives up to an old man sitting on a porch in a rocking chair smoking a pipe and says " Hey Buddy, how do you get to Bar Harbor?" The old man rocks and puffs for awhile and says " Welllllll, howd,ja know my name was Buddy?" The man in the fancy car says: " Where I'm from I'm considered pretty smart (laughing).
> The old man rocks and puffs for awhile longer and says: " Wellllll, if ya so smaaat, you can find you own way to Baa Haaba"!
> 
> What do you want for 4 AM!


----------



## SilverSanJuan

Hahahaha...  Yup, it's best with the Maine accent. 

Thanks for the input on the rust.  And, that's a fine looking case you've made.  Is that a telescope inside?

Todd


----------



## mikbul

SilverSanJuan said:


> Hahahaha... Yup, it's best with the Maine accent.
> 
> Thanks for the input on the rust. And, that's a fine looking case you've made. Is that a telescope inside?
> 
> Todd


 
4" long f/l refractor.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> So which project got your attention today, the piece of mahogany or the 8K?
> 
> Wishing you the best of luck with the bearing installation.
> 
> I saw a webpage that has a 8K cnc conversion in progress. No detailed pics of the cnc conversion parts but there is a link at the bottom of the page with the prints they used for the stepper motor mounts. They are trying to run a ball screw down the middle of the bed so they can still use the lead screw manually. It should be possible but the ball nut mounting will be the difficult part. It seems to be a project at a technical college.


 
Good thing I fit those camlocks in the new spindle, the holes are too small!
The holes in the old spindle are .096" and the new are .056".The camlocks are .088-89"
Called Grizzly tech again and sent more photos.
I was thinking about using the old spindle but it's way looser than the new one. The old journals are 1.771 and the bearing ID is 1.7717.
The new journals are 1.7723" outer and 1.7714" with my new Mitutoyu mic.
So both are tighter.
My other thought is CBM local machine shop to open up those holes and send Grizzly the bill if they agree. How much could it be to open them up .040"?


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Good thing I fit those camlocks in the new spindle, the holes are too small!
> The holes in the old spindle are .096" and the new are .056".The camlocks are .088-89"
> Called Grizzly tech again and sent more photos.
> I was thinking about using the old spindle but it's way looser than the new one. The old journals are 1.771 and the bearing ID is 1.7717.
> The new journals are 1.7723" outer and 1.7714" with my new Mitutoyu mic.
> So both are tighter.
> My other thought is BCM local machine shop to open up those holes and send Grizzly the bill if they agree. How much could it be to open them up .040"?



I will never wish you luck again!  It seems to just create bad luck for you....haha!

You just don't have any luck, do you?  I think it is time for you to bend over and ask somebody to drive a horse shoe up your yoohoo.  LOL! That will be the only way for you to be lucky and put this damn spindle behind you.

Hope Grizzly pays for some local machining....would be nice but not as cheap as Chinese labour.  It should be cheaper for them in the end though.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I will never wish you luck again! It seems to just create bad luck for you....haha!
> 
> You just don't have any luck, do you? I think it is time for you to bend over and ask somebody to drive a horse shoe up your yoohoo. LOL! That will be the only way for you to be lucky and put this damn spindle behind you.
> 
> Hope Grizzly pays for some local machining....would be nice but not as cheap as Chinese labour. It should be cheaper for them in the end though.


 
LOL! I needed a good laugh. BTW it's CBM manufacturing not BCM. I'll call and get an estimate.


----------



## mikbul

mikbul said:


> LOL! I needed a good laugh. BTW it's CBM manufacturing not BCM. I'll call and get an estimate.


 
Just talked to grizzly tech support and they are pulling a spindle out of a new machine with the camlocks to get it to me. He said give them a couple days to get it pulled so that's great as far as I'm concerned!


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Just talked to grizzly tech support and they are pulling a spindle out of a new machine with the camlocks to get it to me. He said give them a couple days to get it pulled so that's great as far as I'm concerned!



Do they want the one they sent you back?

If not, just get it machined at your cost and you have a spare spindle for your self or to sell to the next person with an 8K that needs it.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Do they want the one they sent you back?
> 
> If not, just get it machined at your cost and you have a spare spindle for your self or to sell to the next person with an 8K that needs it.


 
They're e-mailing a return shipping label.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Just talked to grizzly tech support and they are pulling a spindle out of a new machine with the camlocks to get it to me. He said give them a couple days to get it pulled so that's great as far as I'm concerned!




The the crappy part is that you won't have your machine running this week.  The good news is that you should have the spindle sometime next week or if they move their asses, you may be "LUCKY" and get it at the end of this week.

With your luck, I should come to your place and we should play some poker with our unemployment checks.  I know I would be coming home with yours.....HE! HE!HE!


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> The the crappy part is that you won't have your machine running this week. The good news is that you should have the spindle sometime next week or if they move their asses, you may be "LUCKY" and get it at the end of this week.
> 
> With your luck, I should come to your place and we should play some poker with our unemployment checks. I know I would be coming home with yours.....HE! HE!HE!


 
I haven't got one yet the card they gave me ( Chase direct deposit) expired so I'm waiting for a new one!


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> The the crappy part is that you won't have your machine running this week. The good news is that you should have the spindle sometime next week or if they move their asses, you may be "LUCKY" and get it at the end of this week.
> 
> With your luck, I should come to your place and we should play some poker with our unemployment checks. I know I would be coming home with yours.....HE! HE!HE!


 
Just to let you know that I don't have this kind of luck all the time. In 2003 I raced flat track for the whole season without getting hurt, that was luck, believe me. 2nd photo is me on my cousins dirt tracker 21b. 3rd is him at Dayton hotshoe. I was plain old 22.


----------



## mikbul

That's me at Lebanon valley 1/2 mile, didn't win but 2nd place in my class. The boiler plate walls were a little scary, keeps the stock cars in. I ditched the motocross garb for leathers there.


----------



## mikbul

A close up of my cousins two stroke dirt tracker, that's the one I was on at Harpursville. He rode that in the 250 class and his four stroke in the open expert. Dayton is cool, it's an old horse track like Saratoga and they still race horses there.


----------



## mikbul

After Lebanon Valley I decided I'd better ditch the motocross helmet too and get a flat track helmet. Good thing, I took a soil sample about 70, got up and finished the race. My leathers and helmet were pretty scuffed up but I didn't get hurt. I painted over all the scuffs in the helmet but not the visor. @nd photo is mid season before the get off.
Well speaking of getting off I'm off the subject and that will be the last of the flat track, I miss it though!


----------



## gambit_mb

Did you ever have any of your change gears that had an ID that was too small to fit on the brass bushings/shaft?

I seem to have a couple of the smaller gears (21T & 18T) that go on like a easy press fit.  Not the best going on but a bi#ch to get off.  The brass bushings are ok to pull altogether and hammer out but I did my first threading job last night and the 21T is stuck on the lead screw and I don't have a puller.  I will probably have to undo the lead screw so I can hammer it out.  Do you have a simple solution or will I have to tackle the lead screw?

I also find that the tail stock quill is hard to turn after drilling.  I guess the shaft turns ever so slightly and the key on the quill binds.  I wonder if I change the set screw/quill stop/quill guide ( or what ever it is called) to a brass one if that would smooth it out


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Did you ever have any of your change gears that had an ID that was too small to fit on the brass bushings/shaft?
> 
> I seem to have a couple of the smaller gears (21T & 18T) that go on like a easy press fit. Not the best going on but a bi#ch to get off. The brass bushings are ok to pull altogether and hammer out but I did my first threading job last night and the 21T is stuck on the lead screw and I don't have a puller. I will probably have to undo the lead screw so I can hammer it out. Do you have a simple solution or will I have to tackle the lead screw?
> 
> I also find that the tail stock quill is hard to turn after drilling. I guess the shaft turns ever so slightly and the key on the quill binds. I wonder if I change the set screw/quill stop/quill guide ( or what ever it is called) to a brass one if that would smooth it out


 
I would take the quill out of the tailstock and see what's going on, there's probably a burr in the keyway or something like that. I hate to say but I would get a small gear or pulley puller for that 21T, if you have to knock it out be careful of the belt guides.  I don't know if you have Harbor Freight up there but I bought a 1 ton arbor press for 30 bucks or something and it works great for stuff like that.
Once you get the tight pulleys out loosen them up a little. I'd put them in the chuck at 50 rpm's and hit the ID with some 2000 grit wet/dry & oil

Can you take the screws out of both lead screw bearing blocks, support the lead screw and take the two screws out of the apron, it'll just hang there on the half nut and drive the lead screw out of the pulley?


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Did you ever have any of your change gears that had an ID that was too small to fit on the brass bushings/shaft?
> 
> I seem to have a couple of the smaller gears (21T & 18T) that go on like a easy press fit. Not the best going on but a bi#ch to get off. The brass bushings are ok to pull altogether and hammer out but I did my first threading job last night and the 21T is stuck on the lead screw and I don't have a puller. I will probably have to undo the lead screw so I can hammer it out. Do you have a simple solution or will I have to tackle the lead screw?
> 
> I also find that the tail stock quill is hard to turn after drilling. I guess the shaft turns ever so slightly and the key on the quill binds. I wonder if I change the set screw/quill stop/quill guide ( or what ever it is called) to a brass one if that would smooth it out


 
Hey maybe lucks go-in my way and you're getting the **** sandwich!
How you mak'in out up there, do I need to take a road trip and fix your lathe?;D
My quill turns a little whenever it get's torqued on but doesn't bind. I think a little clean up of the keyway or guide pin should work.
Looking at the parts blow up that's just a set screw so maybe turn it out a 1/8th turn and see if that stops the quill from binding.

Sorry about that language moderators! And for wandering off the thread so much.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> I would take the quill out of the tailstock and see what's going on, there's probably a burr in the keyway or something like that. I hate to say but I would get a small gear or pulley puller for that 21T, if you have to knock it out be careful of the belt guides.  I don't know if you have Harbor Freight up there but I bought a 1 ton arbor press for 30 bucks or something and it works great for stuff like that.
> Once you get the tight pulleys out loosen them up a little. I'd put them in the chuck at 50 rpm's and hit the ID with some 2000 grit wet/dry & oil
> 
> Can you take the screws out of both lead screw bearing blocks, support the lead screw and take the two screws out of the apron, it'll just hang there on the half nut and drive the lead screw out of the pulley?



No Harbour Freight here although Fargo has one but it is about 4-5 hours from here.  $100 in fuel for a $15 puller, not today.  Where I live, you buy everything you need and more when you go somewhere.  I am 2 hours from any major city center and most towns around here only have populations in the hundreds.  And the price of fuel here works out to about $5.20/gal.  I will have to hammer out the lead screw.

Whenever I get the gear out, I will have to measure the ID and see if I will use some fine grit wet/dry or rid up the dremel on the lathe.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Hey maybe lucks go-in my way and you're getting the **** sandwich!
> How you mak'in out up there, do I need to take a road trip and fix your lathe?;D
> My quill turns a little whenever it get's torqued on but doesn't bind. I think a little clean up of the keyway or guide pin should work.
> Looking at the parts blow up that's just a set screw so maybe turn it out a 1/8th turn and see if that stops the quill from binding.



You are definitely due for some luck soon.  I had the quill out yesterday and cleaned up the tip of the set screw and ran some emery cloth in the keyway.  It was nice and smooth moving for 6 or 7 holes and then it tightened up again.  I'll have to pull it out again and check closer.

I get about 1-5/8 travel on the quill.  How about yours?  when I pulled the quill the rule reads to 2in.  Once I start getting tooling for the mill, I may have to cut the keyway a little more.  There is probably almost 2in. of shaft behind it.  Never really measured though.  3 in. travel would be nice.


----------



## mikbul

SB claims there's 1-3/4" of travel but I don't get that either. I think a minimum of two inches in the tailstock is needed for rigidity.


----------



## matthew-s

Sent from my iPhone using Model Engines


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> No Harbour Freight here although Fargo has one but it is about 4-5 hours from here. $100 in fuel for a $15 puller, not today. Where I live, you buy everything you need and more when you go somewhere. I am 2 hours from any major city center and most towns around here only have populations in the hundreds. And the price of fuel here works out to about $5.20/gal. I will have to hammer out the lead screw.
> 
> Whenever I get the gear out, I will have to measure the ID and see if I will use some fine grit wet/dry or rid up the dremel on the lathe.


 
Hey looking at the blow up again you just need to take the screws out of the apron and the end of the lead screw pillow block and support it then drive the lead screw out, it'll slide through the other pillow block.


----------



## mikbul

I thought while I was waiting for the spindle I'd take advantage of the nice weather and pull my Dewalt table saw and Makita planer out. I ripped a piece of mahogany in half to make some micrometer cases. Also stop at the Tool Shed and found a nice older Delta scroll saw, real quiet and I already had the stand from the drill press.
I think I'll call Grizzly and see where my spindle is (3:00 west coast)


----------



## mikbul

Awhile back I made the first mod to the not so well thought out spindle lube setup. I pulled the "ball oilers" (grease fittings) and drilled out the ball and spring and made brass plugs. Makes it way easier to get the oil in.
The second mod I started today are two oil spray overflow guards for inside the headstock. They're just flexible thick plastic paper folders cut to shape. I'll rough them and the paint inside the headstock and epoxy them in place. The inside holes are big enough to let the spindle's journals pass through with room to spare.
The third mod is a hole drilled in the pulley side bearing flange at exactly the same height as the chuck side opening bottom. This puts both drains at exactly the center of the lowest roller bearing's center, right where Timkin recommends. Oil any higher can cause churning/ friction/ heat.
Also without the pulley side hole any overfilling of that side's bearing goes in the headstock.


----------



## herrointment

Howdy folks,

This is my first post on this forum but I've been following"mikbuls" SB 1001 posts here for quite some time. I first became aware of this lathe on the Cloudy Nights astronomy forum where mikbul had a short thread about turning some counterweights.

Many months later, after lots of "research" and some second-guessing a new SB 1001 is sitting in a friends shop as I wait for my driveway to dry out after the snow melt of last week. The stand is built and clean up is down to checking the spindle for grease........today sometime and I'm not looking forward to it!

Quickly I'll say I'm pretty happy with the fit and finish on the machine. I'm a woodworker and own 3 Grizzly labeled machines...a 19 inch bandsaw...8 inch jointer and floor-model mortiser....and am familiar with the time it takes to set up and mod the machines. It is time well spent as they have been very accurate and have held their settings. These machines offer good value and perform as well as the tuning they receive. I'm expecting this metal lathe will offer up the same experience. Cleaning the lathe has removed lots of filings/junk, revealed some pretty nice details and has given me a good overview of a machine that I have not operated since 1978! So I'm a very raw beginner and am bound to ask a few stupid questions here and there...fair warning.

Mikbul, thanks for this thread. I wouldn't own the SB 1001 without some of the information presented here.
I'll post here what I find in the bearings if that's OK (?). Your oiling mods I'll try after you post some results. 
As you posted earlier in this thread and I paraphrase..."It's two bearings and a spindle. Not a big deal." That helps!

Looking forward to more from you about this lathe.

Jim


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> Howdy folks,
> 
> This is my first post on this forum but I've been following"mikbuls" SB 1001 posts here for quite some time. I first became aware of this lathe on the Cloudy Nights astronomy forum where mikbul had a short thread about turning some counterweights.
> 
> Many months later, after lots of "research" and some second-guessing a new SB 1001 is sitting in a friends shop as I wait for my driveway to dry out after the snow melt of last week. The stand is built and clean up is down to checking the spindle for grease........today sometime and I'm not looking forward to it!
> 
> Quickly I'll say I'm pretty happy with the fit and finish on the machine. I'm a woodworker and own 3 Grizzly labeled machines...a 19 inch bandsaw...8 inch jointer and floor-model mortiser....and am familiar with the time it takes to set up and mod the machines. It is time well spent as they have been very accurate and have held their settings. These machines offer good value and perform as well as the tuning they receive. I'm expecting this metal lathe will offer up the same experience. Cleaning the lathe has removed lots of filings/junk, revealed some pretty nice details and has given me a good overview of a machine that I have not operated since 1978! So I'm a very raw beginner and am bound to ask a few stupid questions here and there...fair warning.
> 
> Mikbul, thanks for this thread. I wouldn't own the SB 1001 without some of the information presented here.
> I'll post here what I find in the bearings if that's OK (?). Your oiling mods I'll try after you post some results.
> As you posted earlier in this thread and I paraphrase..."It's two bearings and a spindle. Not a big deal." That helps!
> 
> Looking forward to more from you about this lathe.
> 
> Jim


 
Nice to hear from you again, and can't wait to hear about setting up and breaking in your new lathe!
At this point I wouldn't worry about the mods, I know a few have been running fine without them. If you stick to the manual and get the oil in there no worries. 
I look forward to your posts. 
PM me if you have any questions you don't want posted.
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

Also if you could Jim I'm making a list of serial#'s, date of manufacture and where it shipped from. You can PM me that info if you want.
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

The Etalon case is done and the Tesa needs some more poly. Both these mics are going in my collection, I got them for a song from George but the cases were worn. The Etalon case bottom was twisted, hand planed it straight. Those are the mini hand planes I used from Harbor Freight, $ 10.00 for the set and they work great.


----------



## gambit_mb

herrointment said:


> Howdy folks,
> 
> This is my first post on this forum but I've been following"mikbuls" SB 1001 posts here for quite some time. I first became aware of this lathe on the Cloudy Nights astronomy forum where mikbul had a short thread about turning some counterweights.
> 
> Many months later, after lots of "research" and some second-guessing a new SB 1001 is sitting in a friends shop as I wait for my driveway to dry out after the snow melt of last week. The stand is built and clean up is down to checking the spindle for grease........today sometime and I'm not looking forward to it!
> 
> Quickly I'll say I'm pretty happy with the fit and finish on the machine. I'm a woodworker and own 3 Grizzly labeled machines...a 19 inch bandsaw...8 inch jointer and floor-model mortiser....and am familiar with the time it takes to set up and mod the machines. It is time well spent as they have been very accurate and have held their settings. These machines offer good value and perform as well as the tuning they receive. I'm expecting this metal lathe will offer up the same experience. Cleaning the lathe has removed lots of filings/junk, revealed some pretty nice details and has given me a good overview of a machine that I have not operated since 1978! So I'm a very raw beginner and am bound to ask a few stupid questions here and there...fair warning.
> 
> Mikbul, thanks for this thread. I wouldn't own the SB 1001 without some of the information presented here.
> I'll post here what I find in the bearings if that's OK (?). Your oiling mods I'll try after you post some results.
> As you posted earlier in this thread and I paraphrase..."It's two bearings and a spindle. Not a big deal." That helps!
> 
> Looking forward to more from you about this lathe.
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim!  

Welcome to the unofficial South Bend 8K owners group.  I also purchased my 8K because of the information Mike has posted in this awesome thread.  I believe this will be the holy grail of threads for this lathe.  Hope to hear about your experiences with your lathe and I am sure you will enjoy it as much as I do.


Pat


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Hey looking at the blow up again you just need to take the screws out of the apron and the end of the lead screw pillow block and support it then drive the lead screw out, it'll slide through the other pillow block.



Yes, that will be the plan.  I need to make some 3/8-16 studs for a vise on the mill and need to change that gear.  Probably do that tomorrow.

I ended finding the problem with the tail stock quill.  I guess the guide pin had rubbed and created a ridge on the edge of the key way so I just filed it down and seems to be better than new now.

For some reason I haven't received an email on this thread for updates since Wednesday.  I figured I should come check it out because you never miss a weekend post.  I was surprised to see the amount of posts I missed.


----------



## mikbul

There's a lot of torque on that pin and slot, I should pull mine apart and give it a manicure. When I was power tapping with those spiral taps and drilling those deep holes it was rotating the quill some. There's another opportunity for a mod. to make the lathe better.
I always check the two threads as a habit and I've never gotten an e-mail from PM? 27,000 views and not one e-mail! There was a guy on there I _ off for editing too much because he'd get an e-mail with something I wrote and decided to delete it and confuse him. Thing is I never got e-mails so I didn't think about it. I try not to edit as much but it's a habit.*club*


----------



## herrointment

Serial # SB 1001-1272

Date of Manufacture 03-13

Shipped from Springfield, Mo.


----------



## mikbul

Make that almost 29,000 on PM and 23,000 on HMEM. I think HMEM is catching up and will pass PM! 
Anyone with an 8K other than Gambit and Jauringer I'd appreciate your ser#, date of manufacture and shipping origin.
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> Serial # SB 1001-1272
> 
> Date of Manufacture 03-13
> 
> Shipped from Springfield, Mo.


Thank you
Mikbul


----------



## gambit_mb

herrointment said:


> Serial # SB 1001-1272
> 
> Date of Manufacture 03-13
> 
> Shipped from Springfield, Mo.



Nice!  A newer batch.  At least we know they made at least 2 batches of these lathes.  This is the first one that wasn't from 2011......am I right Mike?


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Nice! A newer batch. At least we know they made at least 2 batches of these lathes. This is the first one that wasn't from 2011......am I right Mike?


 
This is the second 2013 8K, Jauringer's was the first. What happened to 2012? I'm wondering if they jumped to sending 2013's until they figure out the scope of the problem batch, if so anyone ordering one now probably won't find black grease.


----------



## herrointment

Opened up the drive side of the spindle and man it is hard to tell what's in there. If forced to guess I'll say oil but here's a couple of inconclusive photos and any guesses are welcome.

Also, my buddy pulled apart the tailstock which was very rough and stiff to begin with. Lots of trouble simply taking it apart...handle ultra tight (after pin removal) centering plugs stuck, rough castings and bearing seats (races?) beat up. 5 hours later it is better and more fiddling with the centering plugs may improve it. I get the impression it was put together improperly and things were forced (at the factory).

The spindle cover photos....one is of an orange rag dragged across the back end.


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> Opened up the drive side of the spindle and man it is hard to tell what's in there. If forced to guess I'll say oil but here's a couple of inconclusive photos and any guesses are welcome.
> 
> Also, my buddy pulled apart the tailstock which was very rough and stiff to begin with. Lots of trouble simply taking it apart...handle ultra tight (after pin removal) centering plugs stuck, rough castings and bearing seats (races?) beat up. 5 hours later it is better and more fiddling with the centering plugs may improve it. I get the impression it was put together improperly and things were forced (at the factory).
> 
> The spindle cover photos....one is of an orange rag dragged across the back end.


 
Sounds like the spindle I just sent back. If it doesn't look like thick black grease in there I would flush the bearings by filling the chuck side until it runs out on your bench and put the same amount of oil in the pulley side. put it in low about 50 rpms for ten minutes, then flush the chuck side until it runs out again and pull the pulley side flange and let it drain. Do this a few times until you get nice clean oil out then oil it up and move on.
Mikbul


----------



## herrointment

Works for me!

Thanks for your help.

Jim


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Hey looking at the blow up again you just need to take the screws out of the apron and the end of the lead screw pillow block and support it then drive the lead screw out, it'll slide through the other pillow block.



Getting the gear off was easier than expected.  There is yet another brass bushing on the end of the lead screw that just popped of will a little pulling on the 48T gear that was closest to the bearing.  Then just hammered out the brass and found the key way was a little tight.  Just cleaned it up with a file and now it slides on better.


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> Opened up the drive side of the spindle and man it is hard to tell what's in there. If forced to guess I'll say oil but here's a couple of inconclusive photos and any guesses are welcome.
> 
> Also, my buddy pulled apart the tailstock which was very rough and stiff to begin with. Lots of trouble simply taking it apart...handle ultra tight (after pin removal) centering plugs stuck, rough castings and bearing seats (races?) beat up. 5 hours later it is better and more fiddling with the centering plugs may improve it. I get the impression it was put together improperly and things were forced (at the factory).
> 
> The spindle cover photos....one is of an orange rag dragged across the back end.


 
This what my bearing looked like when I pulled it out, I hope that helps.
Mikbul


----------



## herrointment

I just received a earlier then expected call- back to work. My ten hour days/58 hour weeks should end sometime in December.

I'm afraid hobby time is going to be hard to come by for na while.

Thanks for the help here and I'll keep following along from time to time.

PS...I haven't even gotten that blasted lathe home yet.....ARRRGGGHHH!


----------



## mikbul

I talked to tech support this morning and my spindle should ship out today.
Good news Gambit.
Bad news Herr.
Unemployment sent me a letter saying I don't have to go to the workshops but still had to look for work. I e-mailed them today and said my service van's in the driveway, they just sent me to Generac school #3 a month ago (expensive) and told me I'd be coming back in six weeks two weeks ago and they want me to look for work? We'll see where this goes.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> I talked to tech support this morning and my spindle should ship out today.
> Good news Gambit.
> Bad news Herr.
> Unemployment sent me a letter saying I don't have to go to the workshops but still had to look for work. I e-mailed them today and said my service van's in the driveway, they just sent me to Generac school #3 a month ago (expensive) and told me I'd be coming back in six weeks two weeks ago and they want me to look for work? We'll see where this goes.



That is good news.  You should see it then sometime this week.

Unemployment here will usually leave you alone if you are attending school or taking a course.  They still say that you should look for work while not attending though.  If you apply for jobs and put down that you won't be available in 4 weeks, nobody will hire you anyway so more time in the shop and you are following the rules.


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> That is good news. You should see it then sometime this week.
> 
> Unemployment here will usually leave you alone if you are attending school or taking a course. They still say that you should look for work while not attending though. If you apply for jobs and put down that you won't be available in 4 weeks, nobody will hire you anyway so more time in the shop and you are following the rules.


 
I made one call today to the and found a job but I don't start until the first of may, at my old job. Handy, I already have a van full of tools and parts right in my driveway!
I talked to my service manager and things are picking up again, I knew they would as soon as we got a warm day it wakes people up. Of course its snowing outside so they'll probably go back to sleep.


----------



## mikbul

I received the quote "New spindle" today from Grizzly and the journals look pretty good for a used spindle. What worries me is the condition of the camlock taper, the rest of the wear I can polish out or live with, but if the chuck won't seat right I won't install it. I was promised a new spindle out of a new machine and once again Grizzly didn't stand by their word. Funny thing a new spindle sander for wood showed up with it but that will be the last purchase for me from Grizzly, except spare parts of course if available and new.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> I received the quote "New spindle" today from Grizzly and the journals look pretty good for a used spindle. What worries me is the condition of the camlock taper, the rest of the wear I can polish out or live with, but if the chuck won't seat right I won't install it. I was promised a new spindle out of a new machine and once again Grizzly didn't stand by their word. Funny thing a new spindle sander for wood showed up with it but that will be the last purchase for me from Grizzly, except spare parts of course if available and new.



So did the chuck seat good?  If so, is the spindle in yet?  Pictures?


----------



## mikbul

I was a bit hot in my last post so I think it best I don't speak about it for awhile.
Best regards
Mikbul


----------



## herrointment

Hope things get straightened out spindle wise. My unit finally arrives home this afternoon.

So Mike, any second thoughts about taking the lead, internet-wise, on this lathe?


----------



## brian13b

mikbul said:


> I am very happy to see the word Germany and P5 on my bearings! There are 70 left on the Locate ball bearing site.




I went on a deployment to Germany,  we had no clue where we were going.  As we pull into this town, all I see is this huge huge company with the name FAG in big neon lights.  I had no clue what the building was,  they said that that building and a church were a few things that survived the "bombing" during the war..    Schweinfurt, Germany... it was a nice place...


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> Hope things get straightened out spindle wise. My unit finally arrives home this afternoon.
> 
> So Mike, any second thoughts about taking the lead, internet-wise, on this lathe?


 
No, no second thoughts. I'll have a solution this week. It's a great lathe, just an unfortunate warranty situation.


----------



## mikbul

brian13b said:


> I went on a deployment to Germany, we had no clue where we were going. As we pull into this town, all I see is this huge huge company with the name FAG in big neon lights. I had no clue what the building was, they said that that building and a church were a few things that survived the "bombing" during the war.. Schweinfurt, Germany... it was a nice place...


 
I and my 8K are fortunate that our aim was off! I'm sure being a ball bearing manufacturer that's what we were aiming at. Nothing rolls without ball bearings.


----------



## gambit_mb

Hey Mike,

Your thread made it in the HMEM "DIY Tool Maker's Chest".  I have never seen it before.  I wonder if this is some new newsletter they are starting or has anybody else seen this before?  Your famous now Mike......LOL!


----------



## gambit_mb

gambit_mb said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Your thread made it in the HMEM "DIY Tool Maker's Chest".  I have never seen it before.  I wonder if this is some new newsletter they are starting or has anybody else seen this before?  Your famous now Mike......LOL!



I am thinking that it is just their newsletter and the title seems to be from the first thread on the list.  My bad.  Your still famous!


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> I am thinking that it is just their newsletter and the title seems to be from the first thread on the list. My bad. Your still famous!


 
Infamous is more like it!
I got a call from tech support today from the man with the desk that everything makes it's last stop. He's ordering another new spindle from the factory and will check it over on it's arrival. I'm optimistic about that and I believe the wait will be worth it.


----------



## gambit_mb

mikbul said:


> Infamous is more like it!
> I got a call from tech support today from the man with the desk that everything makes it's last stop. He's ordering another new spindle from the factory and will check it over on it's arrival. I'm optimistic about that and I believe the wait will be worth it.



By the time you get your lathe repaired your warranty will be over....LOL!  Do they want the last one they sent you back?


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> By the time you get your lathe repaired your warranty will be over....LOL! Do they want the last one they sent you back?


 
He didn't think so but I'll know more in the future. I know this will be the last spindle they will send me because he offered me to return the lathe but I don't need it at the moment and I know what I have in the rest of the machine. Three strikes and you're out in the old ballgame!


----------



## mikbul

Here's the micrometer cases I'm making. This one's for my friend Dan and is a 0-3. In the future the back of each cutout for the thimble will be rounded. Of course the bottom of the cut-outs get padded and felted. That's Philippine 
and African Mahogany.


----------



## robcas631

Mikbul,

It certainly is a beautiful lathe.


----------



## mikbul

robcas631 said:


> Mikbul,
> 
> It certainly is a beautiful lathe.


 
I've been trying for some time now to figure out if that statement was genuine or a friendly poke since I was off subject? 
Anyway I got another call from tech support and my new spindle will be here mid May. When does my warranty run out?LOL

Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

Grizzly has hired a couple guards to watch over my spindle for the 8K when it arrives! Thoughtful folk there at Grizzly


----------



## mikbul

Here's an updated (somewhat) 8K list


----------



## mikbul

Here's a tripod head I'm making out of the scraps left over from the 8K bench. That circle is seven pieces glued together to make it large enough.


----------



## SilverSanJuan

You do some real nice woodworking, mikbul.

Todd


----------



## mikbul

gambit_mb said:


> Hi Jim!
> 
> Welcome to the unofficial South Bend 8K owners group. I also purchased my 8K because of the information Mike has posted in this awesome thread. I believe this will be the holy grail of threads for this lathe. Hope to hear about your experiences with your lathe and I am sure you will enjoy it as much as I do.
> 
> 
> Pat


 
Just reading back through some posts and found this one from Gambit. I think of the three sites this is the most friendly and would be a fitting home for the unofficial 8K owners group. Even though I've never made an engine I've been made to feel welcome here.
BTW the 8K threads collectively have generated 74,000 views with with PM at 34,000, HMEM at 28,000 and CNC Zone at 13,000. There are six 8K owners on CNC Zone that won't give me the time of day and now I remember why I bailed on that site. At this point the list will never be complete but I've gathered enough info to made a reasonable guess as to the spindle problems. You've probably already figured out looking at the list that all 2011 lathes had spindle problems, no 2012's have showed up and all 2013's, which seem to be what is shipping currently, have no issues. That's good news for someone on the fence about purchasing, I would while the sales on. 
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

Received an e-mail from Grizzly yesterday and they are sending me a new spindle out of a new lathe in Muncy, Pa. If everything goes different I'll have my lathe back soon. Just in time, I need to make an aluminum large aluminum spacer. For now I have a piece of maple hardwood for a spacer! Let's me finish the rest of the project. The aluminum spacer will be round, wider, and probably thinner.


----------



## mikbul

There she is!


----------



## herrointment

Here's hoping the new unit is up to snuff.

My tailstock is as good as I can get it with little backlash and diminished roughness. 

The three-day weekend here in the US will allow me to actually do the break-in run sometime therein.

It's a beautiful Summer weekend here and there's no shortage of tasks and commitments, but at least the job is not one of them. Blasted alarm clock did it's thing at 3:45 this morning and I can't get back to sleep so after I post this it's a trip uptown for rolls, a newspaper and some coffee.

When I get back I'll take a photo of my set-up and post it. I built a Roubo inspired bench for the lathe and it turned out well. Not too sure about the covering I used so we will see what you think of that idea.


----------



## mikbul

After cleaning out the burrs from cross milling the holes The camlocks are in, the swarf guard is on. the chuck side bearing flange is in place on the spindle and the bearing is pressed on part way. Once I get the bearing flange bolted up I can press it the rest of the way, need to cut an inch off the tube I'm using and chase the threads.


----------



## mikbul

Setting spindle pre-load and about an hour of break-in. No significant temp rise. My original spindle had the headstock hot after break-in.


----------



## Tanshanomi

Thanks for this thread! I registered on this forum just for this. I am about to become another 8K owner. My wife ordered mine yesterday, and it should arrive mid/late next week. My lathe is coming out of Springfield, so fingers crossed it's a 2013 build with no greased bearing issues.

After years of wanting a lathe, my wife surprised me with it for my 51st Birthday. I'd settled on the 8K as the "sweet spot" between something that was too small, weak and/or crude to satisfy my needs long-term, and wasting money and shop space on more lathe than I might ever use. I decided that I wanted to buy new because I wish to spend my time making parts, not restoring a worn lathe. Also, I work on motorcycles and metric thread cutting can be an issue with many old American-built machinery. We happened to stop in the Grizzly showroom when we were in Springfield this Spring, and I had the chance to look at one in the flesh. For the current price, it's a helluva good value.

I'm excited, but a little intimidated. I am a total n00b when it comes to machining my own parts, so I know NOTHING about owning, setting up or maintaining a lathe. Information like this is invaluable. (I have also gotten lots of helpful advice from guys over on the Hobby Machinist forum.)

Right now, I'm mostly thinking about all the additional stuff I now have to buy -- cutting tools, boring bars, drill chuck, micrometers, dial indicators, a heavier top for my workbench, put in a dedicated electrical circuit... >GULP!<


----------



## mikbul

Tanshanomi said:


> Thanks for this thread! I registered on this forum just for this. I am about to become another 8K owner. My wife ordered mine yesterday, and it should arrive mid/late next week. My lathe is coming out of Springfield, so fingers crossed it's a 2013 build with no greased bearing issues.
> 
> After years of wanting a lathe, my wife surprised me with it for my 51st Birthday. I'd settled on the 8K as the "sweet spot" between something that was too small, weak and/or crude to satisfy my needs long-term, and wasting money and shop space on more lathe than I might ever use. I decided that I wanted to buy new because I wish to spend my time making parts, not restoring a worn lathe. Also, I work on motorcycles and metric thread cutting can be an issue with many old American-built machinery. We happened to stop in the Grizzly showroom when we were in Springfield this Spring, and I had the chance to look at one in the flesh. For the current price, it's a helluva good value.
> 
> I'm excited, but a little intimidated. I am a total n00b when it comes to machining my own parts, so I know NOTHING about owning, setting up or maintaining a lathe. Information like this is invaluable. (I have also gotten lots of helpful advice from guys over on the Hobby Machinist forum.)
> 
> Right now, I'm mostly thinking about all the additional stuff I now have to buy -- cutting tools, boring bars, drill chuck, micrometers, dial indicators, a heavier top for my workbench, put in a dedicated electrical circuit... >GULP!<


 
Congratulations on your awesome birthday present! I'm fairly confident that you'll get a 2013. Look at the Premium Lathe package from Little Machine Shop #4116. I have that with mine and I've found it a perfect fit to the 8K. The Tormach quick change tool post bolts right on and works great. The package comes with 1/2" drill chuck, turning, boring, knurling and cut off tools and four holders. The indexable turning tools are made by AR Warner Co US. They are carbide inserts that last and are triangular so when one edge gets dull you have two more to go. The 8K has plenty of speed for the carbide tools. The parting tool is 1/2" HSS.
If you decide on that package ask them to substitute the flat parting tool holder with the angled holder (Angles blade up)
I also have a thread on Practical Machinist that has some interesting posts along with some not so interesting but worth the read, especially about the D1-3 camlock and how it works. Also RJ Rolfe is a hoot!
At this point I have a new spindle and if it's raining again tomorrow I'll do some tests with it. If it's sunny, so long I'm gone on my Ducati!
Have fun, oil those spindle bearings, 
Mikbul

Oh yeah,
I'm in the middle of selling off my micrometer collection and have some good stuff in all price ranges, mostly all 0-1" but a couple 1-2". Starrett, Brown & Sharpe (Swiss), Mitutoyo, Etalon (Swiss), Tesa (Swiss) etc. Look in the HMEM classifieds. The Brown & Sharpe #1 and the Mitutoyos are excellent . The Starrett 230 is a nice mic but no carbide or tenths.I have a Starrett 230 0-1" tenths in the shop and a Mitutoyo 1-2" tenths with carbide. The rest are Swiss made Brown and Sharpe and other Mitutoyos. Some of the collection I can't seem to part with. 
I'd snatch the Mitutoyu 102-124 (NOS)or the Starrett. Of course for $80.00 off new the B&S #1 NOS is a nice mic.


----------



## mikbul

Turning, facing and boring a piece of Aluminum for a tripod/pier mount. The aluminum is a cast motor mount for an old telescope that's been kicking around for ages.


----------



## mikbul

It started off oblong and the hole wasn't centered so I cut as much off as my dull blade in the band saw allowed and bolted it to a 2" bar of aluminum.


----------



## Tanshanomi

The new baby arrived! It's not bolted down, leveled, cleaned or set up yet, but it was delivered this morning and is out of the crate and up in its bench. It's an old 1960s console TV cabinet that is very solidly built. Stopped by the John Deere dealer for a jug of Hygard Low Vis oil and I'm having an electrician run a dedicated circuit Monday.

EDIT: S/N is 1297, 3/13 build date. I am assuming I shouldn't worry about greased bearings?


----------



## mikbul

I haven't heard of a 2013 SB1001 with a grease problem. Just clean it up, lube it and do your spindle break in. I skipped the 2300 rpm step and stopped at 1800 rpm's. 
Enjoy!
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

Here's an updated list such as it is:
Mikbul


----------



## herrointment

So I'm finally posting some photos of the bench I built for the lathe. It's a copy of my workbench in Douglas Fir rather than Southern Yellow Pine. The bench was constructed in March, in cold and dry weather. July is somehow now upon us so with the heat and humidity the bench will have moved as far as it's going to move. My workbench usually cups in length and now after a few years seems to have stabilized.

The workbench, the lathe and the new lathe bench in the background


----------



## herrointment

To check out what gives as far as movement goes I'll break out the winding sticks and a decent straightedge.


----------



## herrointment

The No. 5 jack plane and some marks showing the high spots. Always hit the high spots and never the low ones....this I have learned the hard way.


----------



## herrointment

Some cross grain work and some diagonal work yields quick results.


----------



## herrointment

One sweat-soaked shirt later and the rough work is complete.

I'll break out the secret weapon tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## herrointment

The secret weapon......a bit hard to set up but deadly accurate when done so.


----------



## herrointment

So what do you think....good enough to hold the lathe or will the seasonal movement be a deal breaker? I'm not married to the thing so let me know what you think.

And yes, someday soon I hope to actually use the lathe but I'm not there yet!


----------



## Tanshanomi

Wow, even my _bench_ sucks.


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> So what do you think....good enough to hold the lathe or will the seasonal movement be a deal breaker? I'm not married to the thing so let me know what you think.
> 
> And yes, someday soon I hope to actually use the lathe but I'm not there yet!


My bench is oak sitting in a wooden building on blocks but I don't care about that, I glued a 2.5" thick piece of oak down the middle of the oak bench and added aluminum angle. The only thing I care about is twist, as long as the lathe bed ways stay parallel your good to go. Think about it, a major customer for South Bend is the US Navy and their onboard machine shops are never level but the lathe doesn't know that.
It's been 10 months and my bed ways are still parallel. That piece of oak is sealed in poly so changes in humidity don't seem to affect it.

To answer your question more clearly I think since you laminated very thick pieces together as long as the top is sealed top and bottom its should be fairly stable. Any stresses in the wood should be held by the adjoining laminations. 
Altogether a nice job!


----------



## mikbul

Tanshanomi said:


> Wow, even my _bench_ sucks.


 
If your bench does the job that's all that matters!


----------



## herrointment

Alright then!

The secret weapon misfired as I had a bear of a time getting a good, even set on the cutter. Used a low-angle jack plane to finish up and a quick sand before I tossed on some shellac.

Used a bit of recycled HDPE for a splash guard but I'll have to use a whiteboard (marker board?) for a proper background. 

So it now sits where it's gonna sit, the best spot in my shop!

Someday I hope to build something as nice as this custom machined equatorial telescope mount, made by one Alan Bell in 1984. I saw it for sale and had to have it.....a real beauty.

Next time...no more froggin' around!

JE


----------



## mikbul

One thing I came across after my bench was done is 6061 aluminum rectangular tube in 2"x6" .25" thick wall found on "Online Metals", I think a 36" long piece would be long enough at $50.00. A length of that would be perfect to bolt the lathe to solidly and let it float of sorts on the wood top. Any wood movement would be irrelevant.
BTW I use a Starrett machinist level to level the ways, a standard level is not accurate enough. Once mounted on that tube and shimmed to eliminate any twist in the ways they should hold with only the occasional check.


----------



## mikbul

Looks nice JE!
Won't be long and chips will flyin!

That's a cool plane you have, I've got a smaller wooden one I've yet to try out. I use my old Stanley jack plane I found at a flea market in mass. My newest are a set of mini planes from Harbor Freight, They're pretty nice with brass sides and the middle is some nice looking hardwood. One is actually a scraper, one a mini bench plane and one a bull nose plane. They look so nice I bought two sets and one sets on display in the L/R!
I put them to work on a swiss micrometer wood case that was warped and they did a nice job.
Mikbul


----------



## Tanshanomi

I haven't gotten mine up and running yet, either, but plenty checked off the list. Main unit de-cosmolined and oiled, plus all the lube points greased/oiled tonight. Just switched the motor on for the first time for just a few seconds, just to say I had. Now I need to tackle the cross-slide, compound, tool holder and tail stock.


----------



## mikbul

Tanshanomi said:


> I haven't gotten mine up and running yet, either, but plenty checked off the list. Main unit de-cosmolined and oiled, plus all the lube points greased/oiled tonight. Just switched the motor on for the first time for just a few seconds, just to say I had. Now I need to tackle the cross-slide, compound, tool holder and tail stock.


 
Sounds like your doing it right and on your way! If you can submerge the chuck and keep turning the scroll, you should get a bunch of stuff on the bottom that you don't want in there. I made the mistake of not doing that and the chuck behaved poorly, not it's fault, CLEAN! LOL


----------



## Tanshanomi

mikbul said:


> Sounds like your doing it right and on your way! If you can submerge the chuck and keep turning the scroll, you should get a bunch of stuff on the bottom that you don't want in there. I made the mistake of not doing that and the chuck behaved poorly, not it's fault, CLEAN! LOL


Appreciate the advice. I'll do that.


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> One sweat-soaked shirt later and the rough work is complete.
> 
> I'll break out the secret weapon tomorrow afternoon.


 
Here's a couple photos of my bench, being oak I didn't even look at the plane and made a router sled. Still a lot of work getting the top flat.

Now my router sled is shortened and fits right over the ways to protect them when changing chucks etc.

I forgot to mention the extra vertical oak legs I added to the bench along with diagonal bracing and angle iron runners to tie them all together.


----------



## mikbul

The router sled/way cover, Stanley #4 and old wooden hand plane that came over on the Mayflower.


----------



## herrointment

I guess I better start thinking about adding some mass!

Ok, so last photo and yes, I am showin' off!

Hand planes are wonderful tools and really grow on a fella. Addictive even!

Again, thanks for the great thread, Mike. It's been beyond helpful!


----------



## mikbul

herrointment said:


> I guess I better start thinking about adding some mass!
> 
> Ok, so last photo and yes, I am showin' off!
> 
> Hand planes are wonderful tools and really grow on a fella. Addictive even!


That's an awesome collection of woodworking tools in a cool cabinet! Now I know who to ask questions about hand planes! Any thoughts about that old wood plane?
On another note you might want to look at some of the woodworking books I have advertised on Astromart non- astro book section. There's some nice books in there but you have to go back 30 days to find the ads.

The Workbench, hardcover and a beauty
Table Saw Magic
The Workshop book
Understanding wood finishing
Mastering Woodworking Machines

All are $10.00 except The Workbench which is $20.00 and shipping is cheap by media mail.


----------



## mikbul

JE you will probably appreciate this more than others except maybe Larry 1 who has been a steadfast follower of this thread.
That tripod head is finally done (you can see the added bracing under the tripod head) and ready for six days in the Adirondacks. You can see the aluminum spacer I machined out of an old Cave Astrola motor mount. (back a page or two and BTW that's the South Bend 5" camlock chuck )
My 102 f11 is in the case I made and those are solid Polaris legs. The chair I found on the side of the road! Somebody was sending it to the trash? It works great at the telescope as it screws up or down. Pretty cool lathe work on that wooden screw!
(I'll probably bring my TV 102 and try that on the new tripod.)


----------



## mikbul

This is how I found out what was causing the wiggles at the eyepiece, the oak mounts were twisting .002" each way when I pulled at the end of the tripod leg.


----------



## mikbul

Some left for sale in all price points. All have been checked out with my guage blocks.


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## Tanshanomi

I cannot express how much I hate working with wood. But I think that's because I don't have the proper experience and skill to know how to persuade it to do what I want. Being a natural product, it's reaction can be frustratingly inconsistent and unpredictable. I find wood to be much too...um...disobedient.


----------



## barnesrickw

Wood requires a bit of love. A bit fickle. 


Sent from my iPad using Model Engines


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## mikbul

Tanshanomi said:


> I cannot express how much I hate working with wood. But I think that's because I don't have the proper experience and skill to know how to persuade it to do what I want. Being a natural product, it's reaction can be frustratingly inconsistent and unpredictable. I find wood to be much too...um...disobedient.


 
That's because wood is a living breathing product unlike ALUMINUM. Did you read the post about Aluminum tubing, that would be the answer to any problems with wood moving. It's only 2" high and 6" wide but a beefy 1/4" thick! A 3' section is 50 well worth dollars.
Mikbul


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## mikbul

I had to cut short my camping trip so today I machined a couple aluminum bottom spacers of different thickness with the 8K. I should have put the 5" chuck on, the added flywheel effect makes parting smoother. I was in low range, you'll trip the over/amp cutout a lot less. Keep the parting tool protrusion as less as possible and sharpen the HSS once in awhile. I finished the part with a hacksaw because I had to pull the live center back and the stock was excessively long. I would have cut it down in my band saw but the shaft is out and needs a new seal.
The wood dowel catches the part without any fuss.
Lead screw still disconnected otherwise would have been a better finish.


----------



## Tanshanomi

Well, I'm no longer a lathe virgin; I made my first part with the 8K. It's nothing impressive or terribly precise, but it does have a real use  it's a shock mount spacer for my project bike.


----------



## mikbul

Tanshanomi said:


> Well, I'm no longer a lathe virgin; I made my first part with the 8K. It's nothing impressive or terribly precise, but it does have a real use &#8212; it's a shock mount spacer for my project bike.


 
Nice work! Project bike sounds interesting.
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

Your project bike post got me thinking about a few more mods I want to add to my bike. Here's a photo on the Dragon in street mode with the bags on, pipes lowered, and center stand on so I'm taking it easy.


----------



## Tanshanomi

Here's what the final version of my shock spacers look like on the bike. 

Sorry for the thread jack!


----------



## mikbul

No problem, I've been posting to this and another thread since October and I welcome new photos and projects big or small. Looks like a monoshock, why the raised portions, rigidity? Please keep em coming.
Mikbul


----------



## Tanshanomi

mikbul said:


> why the raised portions, rigidity?



No, they're purely aesthetic (but rigidity's a nice-sounding justification!). The swingarm is offset in the frame a bit, and I thought they made it look more as though they were intentionally different lengths, instead of "oops, the left side is longer." 

It was also great practice to accurately duplicate all the various dimensions on two matching parts.


----------



## mikbul

Great to be able to make this stuff yourself! I've thought about a milling machine but can't justify it for making one off parts for myself. Though there's a bunch of billet parts I'd like to make for the Duc that are cast now and powder coated but I'd prefer gold anodized billet. Also thought about machining an adjustable ride height link. the OEM is fixed. I can get a used one from a 996, 916, 748, or an ST4 or St3S but that's 75-95.00 on Evil Bay.


----------



## mikbul

Here's an update to the 8K list but flushed out and running quiet.


----------



## deek

Hi everyone,

new to machining.  I researched a lot before buying an SB1001.  I was really impressed with your (Mikbul) in depth analysis on this lathe.

Here's my stats for your list so far: s/n 1140 mfg date on plate - 12/2011, mfg date on inspection sheet 3/2012.

I'm not sure why I got one that manufactured nearly three years ago, but there it is.

Do you have a procedure for flushing out the spindle?  I know someone, I think it was Gambit said just run kerosene into the fitting until it flushes and then DTE.  I'm not sure where the kerosene will exit, but I guess I'll find out.  I'm also wondering whether I should just go ahead and open up the headstock and do a visual inspection.  Recommendations?

I've torn down the cross slide and tailstock for cleaning.  The apron was not clean and had some grit in the gears, so that's coming apart too.

Lead screw was fairly clean.  I'm anxious to get it back together and start learning how to use it. 

Thanks for all the information.

deek


----------



## mikbul

Hello Deek,
Unfortunately your serial # falls in the clean out zone. We've had one person try the kerosine flush which is very messy and another, Iwire had an unsuccessful flush and had to replace the bearings. I recommend pulling the spindle and cleaning it properly. (If you run it and compromise the races then your in trouble! There a #*&^%$ to replace). It's not hard to do, the only issue is the wrench I had to make for the spindle nut. on re-assembly I have the instructions from Grizzly on setting the preload, again not a hard thing to do. By design the inner bearing is a looser fit so you can yap out the spindle with a plastic hammer. I used the spindle nut to pull it back together.
Relax and take your time with it and you'll love this lathe.
Mikbul

New Stats.


----------



## deek

Thanks for the advice Mikbul.  

I'll let you know what I find so you can update the list.

I was kind of worried that I'd get the "bad" batch, but I guess if I didn't like taking stuff apart and putting it back again I wouldn't have purchased the lathe in the first place.


----------



## deek

Well, I opened up the headstock and found my bearing packed with a white grease... maybe cosmoline?

I cleaned everything up with kerosene, put a little dte on everything and buttoned it up.

I greased and oiled everything and did the preload procedure.  Interestingly, I ran the rpms up a bit and warmed everything.  There was a funny sound when I was warming it up, so I stopped and checked the spindle.  Sure enough there was a little slop left in it, so I tightened the spindle lock down until there was no play and then backed it off again.

After getting the pre-load done, I did the spindle break in.  Everything went well and nothing got hot... just barely warm.

Finished up cleaning the apron and cross slide and got them installed and adjusted.  Also put on the OXA QCTP.

Next up, I'm going to put the 4 jaw chuck on and dial the whole thing in.

I really like the fit and finish of the lathe.  It's very solid and well-engineered.

Hope I can make some chips this weekend.

deek


----------



## Cogsy

deek said:


> I greased and oiled everything and did the preload procedure. Interestingly, I ran the rpms up a bit and warmed everything. There was a funny sound when I was warming it up, so I stopped and checked the spindle. Sure enough there was a little slop left in it, so I tightened the spindle lock down until there was no play and then backed it off again.


 
I'm not familiar with this lathe or the pre-load procedure you're talking about, but if it concerns tapered roller bearings I can shed some light on your issue.

Because of the taper on the rollers, they tend to drop to the bottom of the races. When tightening them, they also act as wedges. When they start running though, they climb to the top of the races where they actually run and significantly increase the clearance within the bearing. Anytime tapered rollers are adjusted they need to be spun as they are tightened or they will end up with too much clearance.

If none of this applies then I can't help you. Sorry.


----------



## mikbul

deek said:


> Well, I opened up the headstock and found my bearing packed with a white grease... maybe cosmoline?
> 
> I cleaned everything up with kerosene, put a little dte on everything and buttoned it up.
> 
> I greased and oiled everything and did the preload procedure. Interestingly, I ran the rpms up a bit and warmed everything. There was a funny sound when I was warming it up, so I stopped and checked the spindle. Sure enough there was a little slop left in it, so I tightened the spindle lock down until there was no play and then backed it off again.
> 
> After getting the pre-load done, I did the spindle break in. Everything went well and nothing got hot... just barely warm.
> 
> Finished up cleaning the apron and cross slide and got them installed and adjusted. Also put on the OXA QCTP.
> 
> Next up, I'm going to put the 4 jaw chuck on and dial the whole thing in.
> 
> I really like the fit and finish of the lathe. It's very solid and well-engineered.
> 
> Hope I can make some chips this weekend.
> 
> deek


 
Here's the preload page from Grizzly. It's a different lathe but that doesn't matter
Mikbul 

View attachment Spindle_Bearing_Pre-Load.pdf


----------



## deek

thanks guys.  I'm going to go through it again tonight.

deek


----------



## deek

Hey Mikbul, I hope you don't mind me posting on your thread.  I'll move to a new thread if you'd like.  It seems like this is a good spot for discussing the SB1001.

In the spirit of sharing (lol)...  here's where I am.

I found a wear spot on the inboard spindle bearing race.  Not good.  Didn't notice it the first time around.  I've contacted Griz.  I'll let you guys know how it goes.

I also pointed out to them that they sent me an older manufacture machine while they have newer manufacture machines available.  I'll let you know how that goes.

I went to clean the 4 jaw South Bend chuck I ordered at the same time and found the cam plate did not mate with the chuck.  The inner ring was not machined to the proper diameter.  But hey, I've got a lathe!  So I chucked that baby up and turned down the inner ring.  Unfortunately, the surfaces of the cam plate and the chuck do not mate as they are not flat.  doh.

Then I noticed that the threads in the cam bolt holes were screwed up because of voids in the casting.  double doh.

Then I noticed that the mounting holds and their countersinks were out of round and did not align with the chuck.  Triple doh.

I've contacted Griz and... I'll let you know how it goes.

Despite the issues, I'm having a ball working through all of this.  I know a lot of guys would say I should have gotten old iron, but I really like this lathe.  In turning down the cam plate, the lathe worked great.  That motor just purrs.  If I can get these issues squared away, I'm certain I'll be like a pig in s**t.

deek


----------



## jherndon

DEEK,  I received this in Nov 2012 - on how to pre-load the SP1001 spindle.


We are sorry for the problem with your purchase of the SB1001 Lathe. I have included directions for setting preload on this lathe. The directions are assuming the spindle is fully assembled but actual preload setting is the same. Actual replacement of the bearings is begun the same as preload setting in that the pulley, spacer ring,  gear and speed sensor are removed. It will also be necessary to remove the pivot bracket and the bearing flange. A press may be required to remove the outer spindle bearing.

*To adjust the preload:*

*1. *Run the lathe for 20 minutes on high speed to bring the lathe to a normal temperature.

*2. *DISCONNECT THE LATHE FROM THE POWER SOURCE!

*3. *Remove the chuck, shift the spindle to neutral, and remove the outboard spindle cover

*4. *Place the chuck key in the cam-lock socket to keep the spindle from rotating.

*5. *Using a spanner wrench, or hammer-and punch, loosen the spanner nut
counter- clockwise and remove it.

*6.  *Remove the pulley, spacer ring, gear and speed sensor ring.

*7. *Place a wooden block over the outboard end of the spindle and hit it soundly with a small
sledge or heavy dead blow hammer  Your goal is to slide the spindle forward just enough to introduce spindle endplay that you can feel by hand.

*8. *Replace speed sensor ring, gear, spacer ring, pulley and spanner nut.

*9. *Place a dial indicator on the cross slide and move the carriage toward the headstock until the contact point of the indicator touches the spindle face.

*10. *Move the carriage an additional 0.100 toward the headstock.

*11. *Insert the chuck key into a cam socket and prevent the spindle from turning. Tighten the spanner nut until you see the motion of the needle in the dial indicator just barely stop moving. During the spanner nut tightening process, rock the spindle back
and forth slightly with the chuck key to make sure the spindle tapered roller bearings seat properly in the tapered bearing races. When the dial indicator needle stops moving,
there will be no spindle endplay and no bearing preload. It is essential that you find
this point without tightening the spanner nut too much and inadvertently preloading the
spindle bearings.

*NOTE:* Since it can take great effort to turn the spanner nut, you may find it difficult to know if you have gone past the zero endplay point or not. You may find it easiest to have someone watch the dial for you while you tighten the spanner nut. If you think you may have gone past the zero end-play point, take the time to unload the bearings as described earlier, then re-tighten the spanner nut until you know you have reached the correct setting. When you are confident that you have adjusted the spanner nut until zero spindle endplay and preload exists, you now must move the spanner inward and additional 0.001" to set the preload.

*12. *To set the preload, tighten the spanner nut an additional 0.16" along its circumference.

*13. *Re-install the outboard spindle cove.


*To confirm that the bearings are correctly preloaded:*

*1. *Make sure all safety precautions have been taken and setup steps are complete to make the lathe fully operational.

*2. *Install the chuck and tighten the jaws.

*3. *Set the spindle speed to its highest setting.

*4. *Connect the lathe to power and turn the lathe spindle *ON*.

*5. *Let the lathe run for 20 minutes.

*6. *Turn the spindle *OFF*, disconnect lathe from power, and check the temperature of the
spindle.

If the spindle nose is slightly warm to the touch, you have correct bearing preload.

If the spindle nose is hotter than you can comfortably keep your hand on, the preload
is too tight and you must repeat bearing preload adjustment procedure..


            Sincerely,
            Hayes
Technical Service​Grizzly Industrial, Inc.
EN #729 
Grizzly Industrial, Inc. Email Disclaimer
 The information contained in this email is considered accurate and reliable as of the date appearing above and is presented in good faith.  However, the information contained herein is based upon information supplied by the Recipient or others, of which Grizzly Industrial, Inc. has no way of knowing its accuracy.  And, because use conditions and applicable laws may differ from one location to another and may change with time, therefore Recipient is responsible for determining whether the information in this document is appropriate for Recipient's use.  Since Grizzly Industrial Inc. has no control over how this information may ultimately be used, all warranties, conditions, representations, guarantees, and liability, express or implied are expressly disclaimed and Grizzly Industrial, Inc. assumes no obligation.  Grizzly Industrial, Inc. or others give no warranty of merchantability, satisfaction, or fitness for a particular purpose.  Customer acknowledges and agrees that the products and services being provided are not warranted to be error-free.

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----------



## deek

thanks for the info Hayes.  It's nice to see Griz watching what's going on and responding.

And many thanks to Mikbul for his extensive writing on this subject and bringing to light excellent technical information.

I've contacted customer service to resolve the issues I've outlined.  Once that's resolved I'll check back in on this forum and let everyone know how it went.

If your post is any indication of Griz's commitment to customer service, then I'm very optimistic of a positive outcome.

deek


----------



## mikbul

deek said:


> Hey Mikbul, I hope you don't mind me posting on your thread. I'll move to a new thread if you'd like. It seems like this is a good spot for discussing the SB1001.
> 
> In the spirit of sharing (lol)... here's where I am.
> 
> I found a wear spot on the inboard spindle bearing race. Not good. Didn't notice it the first time around. I've contacted Griz. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
> 
> I also pointed out to them that they sent me an older manufacture machine while they have newer manufacture machines available. I'll let you know how that goes.
> 
> I went to clean the 4 jaw South Bend chuck I ordered at the same time and found the cam plate did not mate with the chuck. The inner ring was not machined to the proper diameter. But hey, I've got a lathe! So I chucked that baby up and turned down the inner ring. Unfortunately, the surfaces of the cam plate and the chuck do not mate as they are not flat. doh.
> 
> Then I noticed that the threads in the cam bolt holes were screwed up because of voids in the casting. double doh.
> 
> Then I noticed that the mounting holds and their countersinks were out of round and did not align with the chuck. Triple doh.
> 
> I've contacted Griz and... I'll let you know how it goes.
> 
> Despite the issues, I'm having a ball working through all of this. I know a lot of guys would say I should have gotten old iron, but I really like this lathe. In turning down the cam plate, the lathe worked great. That motor just purrs. If I can get these issues squared away, I'm certain I'll be like a pig in s**t.
> 
> deek


 
Hello Deek, No issues about posting to this thread!
Sorry to hear of your issues. That four inch chuck is not up to the quality of the rest of the lathe. I dropped the bucks for the five inch and what a difference! The five inch is a true cam-lock with no adapter and is what comes on the 10K. I still use the four inch at times though so I must have gotten a better one than you. Since you have the spindle out it's a good time to drill out the ball bearings in the spindle lube fittings and once you have it back up and running turn 2 brass plugs. Lubing the bearings is much easier.
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

In reading your post again I realized you were talking about a different chuck. I still recommend the South Bend five inch 3 jaw.
Mikbul


----------



## deek

Well, here's the update on the grizzly warranty issues.

Griz sent new bearings which I promptly installed.   After getting the old bearings out and installing the new bearings, I went through the spindle break in procedure.

The new bearings are WAY quieter, but I've still got some rattle somewhere.  It may or may not be the bearings or may be the motor.  I did some research and found there may be issues with the motor for that year build. The run out on the spindle  (something like .0001) is much improved, so I'm leaning toward the motor.

In talking to the Griz technicians, they were very helpful with sending parts.  I mentioned to the first tech that I was a little miffed to be fixing a build that has known issues and wanted to know why I wasn't sent a newer build.

After several phone calls, grizzly's position is that there are no known manufacturing issues with any of the SB1001s.  They don't really even acknowledge that there was grease in the bearings instead of oil.  I could not get anyone to answer me why I was sent an older build.  In fact, every time I raised the issue, I was either ignored or told that Grizzly stands behind its machines.

At some point, I decided I was just going to send it back and go a different route.  That's when things got interesting.  Since I initially decided to fix the problem and work on the machine, it's no longer eligible for return because it's used.  What happens now is I can box it up, have it shipped to Griz, where they will determine whether or not it's a valid return whereupon they will either fix it or send me another.  Since I've already fixed the major issue, I really don't have any confidence that they will find the return "valid."  If I hadn't tried to fix the issue, they would have taken the return.

The other fun part is that if I decide to send the machine back, they won't commit to having it done within any period of time.  They said they'd do their best, but now I'm out at least another month without the lathe.

So, I can send the lathe back and hope they validate the return, or get tapped for costs.  I might get lucky and get a new build, or I might get another 2011 build that has issues, or I might get a repaired lathe.

I told the rep that for the cost of shipping, they could make me feel better about going it alone if they'd send me a coupon for a discount on tooling for a future purchase.  But they won't do that until they have the lathe in the shop because, as far as they know, there are no manufacturing issues with that build.  I should mention that I all ready sent pictures of the damaged race.  That was good enough to send parts, but not sufficient to show issues and get a coupon. 

I get that they are trying to avoid fraudulent claims.  But I've documented the problems and have spent a lot of time fixing problems on a new machine.  They'd rather take the hit shipping the machine and me being without my machine than cut me a break on some tooling.

Topping all that off was the 4- jaw chuck that I returned. They returned my money and cancelled my order.  They didn't send a replacement that I requested, so now I have to re-order and the jaw won't be around til mid March.

Yippee.

All in all, I'd say that I haven't had the most positive experience with Grizzly.   As always - Caveat Emptor.

I rather like working on machines.  I didn't even mind doing some of the warranty work to get to know my machine.  But it seems to me that Grizzly could recognize that I'm actually saving them money by trying to make the thing work without relying on shipping back and forth.  And as for standing behind the machine, I think Griz should consider standing behind the customer as opposed to an inanimate object.

I'm going to go ahead and track down that rattle and fix the machine myself.  Then I'm going to sell it and go with company that stands behind their customers.

Sorry about the long rant guys.  I hope it wasn't too boring to get through.

peace
d


----------



## mikbul

Hi Deek,
I've had that rattle that comes and goes but stays the same ever since I've owned mine. I decided to live with it and it's been over a year so I don't pay attention to it anymore.LOL
Mikbul


----------



## dexx0008

Hi Everyone,

This seems to be the place to discuss the SB1001. I am currently deciding if this is the route I should go. I currently have a taig lathe and I am self taught. I still have a LOT to learn and this is definitely a hobby for me. I feel it's time to upgrade my lathe for something a bit larger, has a leadscrew. There have been a few things that just don't fit my little taig. I am still debating if I should sell the taig or keep it around. It's a great little lathe that is pretty accurate. 

So far I've looked at 7x 14/16's primarily. Micromark's 7x16 was what i had things narrowed down to before noticing the SB. You are spending about double but feel you are getting a lot more lathe/quality and something that should be my last lathe. The price and specs seem good especially with the discount. I don't want to get a 7x lathe and regret not going with something a bit more heavy. Anything larger than the SB is too large/heavy for me though. I have an engine hoist to help move it if need be. 

My concern is ordering one and getting an older build date and then have to spend quite a bit of time pulling the bearings or not being able to spot a defect from not being knowledgeable enough. I've just about pulled the trigger a few times. I hoping that if I do you guys would be willing to help get me up and running/give advice if need be.

Those of you that had purchased one, would you do it again or look at something else, and why?

great threat btw, certainly the most detailed of all the SB1001 threads I've read.

thanks,
Ryan

ps. @mikbul: I was just at harbor freight earlier this week and spotted those brass/wood planes. I picked myself up a set too. I then saw you have them and liked them, I agree with your assessment of them


----------



## deek

Hey Ryan, welcome to the forum.  It's a great place for information.

I've had a chance to use my lathe a bit after getting it all fixed up and it does a nice job.  The 1.5 hp motor is really powerful.  I've stalled it, but I was pushing pretty hard on steel.  The fit and finish on the SB1001 is really pretty good and it fits in my work envelope.  I made some threads and it was a bit tedious getting the gears changed, but I don't really do that many threads, so that's not a big point for me.  I faced a 6" steel round and turned down a 1/4" brass bushing and the lathe performed very well.

As happy as I am with the lathe, I'm thoroughly disappointed in Grizzly and will not buy anything from them again.  I'd rather find a vendor that takes care of its customers than save a few bucks.

If you do decide to get the SB1001, I would make my order dependent on a build no later than 2013.  Those builds apparently have no issues.  I'd make the order on the phone and insist it be put in writing.  Make sure they send you a confirmation email and if that stipulation is not on the email, ask them to resend with the stipulation.  That way, you are bargaining for a specific build and have recourse if they do not send it... keeping in mind they may decide not to sell you a lathe under that condition.  If it got to my home with the 2011 build, I'd send it right back.  (This does not constitute legal advice by the way.)

I would not buy the 4 jaw chuck or any other accessory from Grizzly.  I know Mikbul got the 5" 3-jaw chuck and is very happy with it.  I got a Burnerd 3 jaw 5" chuck and am exceedingly happy with it.  I had to turn the adapter plate, but that was just fun.  I also have a 3 jaw hardinge chuck that needs an adapter turned, but I'm not sure I'm going to keep it, so that will wait a bit.  The 3 jaw that comes with the lathe is just not very good.

Shame on Grizzly for not owning the build issue and never admitting there was a problem even though it has been documented on this and other sites.

Like with every corporate entity, take what you need and leave them behind.  Geez, I didn't realize how upset I still was until I started writing about this.:wall:

Final verdict from me: The Lathe is excellent.  The service is sub-par.

Peace and have fun.
deek


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## dexx0008

Deek,

interesing response 

From what I've gathered on various forums etc that grizzly does typically have pretty good support. It sounds like Grizzly is not publishing/publicly acknowledging what seems to be a batch problem but they are honoring warranty and haven't left anyone out to dry yet. I have mixed feelings on this and have dealt with this kind of thing. 

So I'm thinking
1. the lathe is worth it but there is a risk you'll find grease in the bearings depending on build so add a few extra steps to properly set it up
2. It's a pretty great/accurate lathe given size/price. You won't do much better without spending quite a bit more. treated properly it will last a long long time.
3. I'll need to invest in a a quality 5" chuck
4. It would be a good idea to get a nice quick change tool post, perhaps something from little machine shop? tomach or oxa?

I'm leaning more and more towards getting one but will likely wait til mid week next week before ordering since I'm headed out of town for a bit.

I'll need grizzly's lift gate service and I have access to my neighbors engine hoist to get it on my bench. the interesting part will be getting it up my driveway. It's not a long driveway but 260+ lbs is a bit to move around (for me, i'm not a big guy)

I should probably create some sort of d1-3 to 3/4-16 adapter so I can use my collet set from my taig, and my 4 jaw chuck to get me by before investing in a quality 5" 3 jaw chuck.

I'd love to hear recommendations for chucks/tooling/toolposts
sounds like mikbul likes the 5" 3 jaw southbend from grizzly
deek, you like your Burnerd chuck? 

I understand little machine shop gives good service and has decent products.

anyplace else I should look?

thanks,
Ryan


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## mikbul

I wouldn't let the bearing issue be a deciding factor, after all, the price was dropped way down and cleaning out any grease is easy, but, getting a 2013 is a better bet. I have to completely disagree about the South Bend 5" three jaw chuck, it's a work of art and is very repeatable. It's the same chuck that comes on the 10K. I agree that if you need a four jaw they don't offer a South Bend four jaw unless you put an adapter on like the three jaw. Also I have a thread on the Practical Machinist that you might like to look at. Some of the posts are similar but there's more info on there I believe, and my friend with the 10K is a hoot.
Mikbul


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## mikbul

Here's my 8K set up in the shop with a Tormach OXA quick change that bolts right on from The Little Machine Shop, works great.
Mikbul


----------



## deek

I have the tormach OXA from LMS.  It's pretty good, but needs to have the bottom of the post lapped to make it really flat.  I got a couple of extra #1 tool holders with it.

I also got the bison 5c collet chuck with an adapter plate.  It was a simple operation to get it set up. I like the bison a lot.  

I really like my Burnerd chuck. I got it used and it's beautiful.  I trust Mikbul's judgement on the southbend 5".  I was going to go that direction until I decided to boycott grizzly permanently.    I like bison, burnerd, and hardinge chucks.

I got a skoda live center off ebay.  I think ebay can be a good place to get stuff if you read carefully, examine the pictures, and contact the seller.  Having said that, there's not much warranty and occasionally I get a not so good deal.

I've been using the 3/8" insert holder tool set from AR warner.  They use the TCMT and TCGT inserts.  I'm learning my way around these tools, but so far, I'm pretty happy with the results.   I may try a 1/2" holder and see if that improves the quality of finish and whether the inserts are less expensive.

I shop at LMS, Enco, McMaster, Amazon, Ebay, and Craigs.  Just depends on how quickly I need something and who has what I need.


----------



## dexx0008

mikbul said:


> Here's my 8K set up in the shop with a Tormach OXA quick change that bolts right on from The Little Machine Shop, works great.
> Mikbul



I've read both threads  It's a nice setup you have.

I've pretty much decided if I'm going to get a new lathe I'm going to go with the 8k over micromark 7x16. I'll probably call grizzly when i order late this week/early next and see if I can ensure I can get a late model build but I'm guessing it will be luck of the draw. If it does i'll just deal with what arrives. I already have a first project in mind after break-in.

I'm still undecided on if I should keep my taig or not. It might be nice to keep for a while since i have an index plate already mounted and that might come in handy. Here's a pic of it back when i first got it (quite a while ago) after just mounting the index plate. I didn't even have a set pin for the index plate yet. This is not the bench it will be mounted to as i took that apart for more tool space.






I'll be placing it on a free waterloo bench i was given. Similar to this: mine just has two drawers on the right and left side has a shelf. I'm wondering if i should put something to cover the mdf thats on there. It is pretty solid and over 1" thick.


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## dexx0008

craigslist is an option. There are a few re-sellers in the area (Minneapolis) that seem to watch craigslist and tend to move on things quickly though. I Just have to keep watching patiently.

Any opinion on a radius cutter for the 8k?

http://www.micromark.com/radius-cutting-tool-for-85181-micro-lathe,10395.html

I'd like up to a 2" capacity for cutting shift knobs.


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## deek

I've put in quite a few hours with my 8k lathe and I have to say that it's running rather nicely.  I have decided to ditch the tormach quick post tool holder.  It really isn't rigid enough to do steel.  I noticed that I'm getting a lot of flex during turning operations.  I've tried about everything to make it work properly, but it just doesn't rigidly hold the tool.

I'm looking at an aloris now because I don't want to buy again.  I think Mikbul put on the AXA size, but aloris now has an MXA-IP tool holder that looks interesting.  If anyone has any insight on that holder, I'd love to hear about it.

But on to the tailstock.  I was drilling a center on a piece of round stock with the tailstock when the tailstock just ground to a halt.  I say "ground" because I heard a grinding noise just as it stopped advancing.

I stopped the work and disassembled the tailstock.  I had to use my wooden mallet to get the quill out as it was jammed.  When I got everything apart, the photo shows the top locking barrel nut.  As you can see in the photo, the casting is just swiss cheese crap.  This reminds me of my southbend 4 jaw chuck experience.  I mean really... when you have this thing in your hand before assembly, how do you not throw it in the trash?

Anyway, I cleaned out all the rubble and casting that was everywhere.  Unfortunately, my quill is scored as is the tailstock cylinder.  I've contacted grizzly for a waranty replacement of the tailstock.  I'll let you all know how it goes.

If I get a new tailstock, I'm going to take it apart and inspect the casting.  If I don't like it, I may just make a new nut from steel or perhaps brass.  We'll see how griz handles this.

deek


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## deek

I had informed griz of the casting, the grinding noise I heard, and the damage to the quill and tailstock barrel. 

Here's an excerpt from the response I got from Grizzly regarding the bad casting:

"Thank you for your email dated February 18, 2015

I am sorry to hear that you are having difficulties with your SB1001 South Bend Lathe.  I apologize for any confusion on our part, but the part pictured is the bottom side of the lower quill lock.  We are trying to determine how these pieces traveled up beyond the lower quill lock to be able to reach the quill and barrel of the tailstock casting.  Can you provide a picture of the quill and if possible, the damage to the barrel of the tailstock?

Regarding replacing the tailstock, this would not be the best option in all honesty.  Each tailstock is ground to the particular lathe that it is being mounted to, so some modifications might be required if the entire assembly was to be replaced.  If the issues can be polished out of the barrel of the tailstock, replacing the quill would be the best route, to maintain the same level of accuracy.

Once we have more information, we can assist you further.  You are a valued customer, and we look forward to hearing from you soon."

I've left off the name of the person that wrote the email.  No sense in making this personal.

It's amusing to me that they question how the casting got into the quill area and not that the casting looked like swiss cheese.  Their response, in other words, is to have me prove to them the damage from a clearly faulty part before they can take action.  So, they can't see from the picture that the casting is horrible and say, for example, send out a new part as well as ask for additional information?  Nope.  They need to have more facts because they can't figure out how those nasty castings could have made it to the quill.  Here's one possibility - the casting were thrown around during the 3 year wait that the machine had until it hit my doorstep and managed to get into the quill area.  Here's another - the castings worked their way up the threads since there was more than enough room in the threaded section to allow passage of the castings into the quill.  And that took me just 30 seconds to figure out.

Oh, and let's not send a new tailstock... let's have the customer polish the barrel of the tailstock and send over a new quill because otherwise it would be just too inaccurate to have a new taillstock sent over since each tailstock is matched to the machine... because the quality control is just that good.

I mean seriously, is this the way to demonstrate what a "valued" customer I am?

For the record, I tried to take a picture of the barrel of the tailstock and my camera just isn't up to it.  I can seem to get a good focus on the inside of a barrel.

Here's my suggestion for a letter to me:

"I am sorry to hear that you are having difficulties with your SB1001 South Bend Lathe.  We'll send a part out right away to replace that defective casting and get you rolling.

We'd like to spend some further time figuring out how this happened so we can avoid this kind of thing in the future.  Would you mind sending us a picture or two of your barrel and quill?  We'd also like to speak with you on the phone and get your feedback on what may have gone wrong so we can better serve you.

As to your suggestion of a new tailstock, we'd like to make you aware that each tailstock is milled to the particular lathe for accuracy.  If the current tailstock is serviceable, it may be better to polish the tailstock barrel and replace the quill. We'd like to speak with you in person to make sure you understand all the issues involved.

Thank you for your patience.  We will work to resolve this and any other issues that arise with your lathe."

That wasn't so hard was it?

Is this dialog helpful?  I'll stop posting what is going on if a significant number of readers so indicate.  I just think it's useful to know what the practices are of a company that supplies the hobbyist market.


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## mikbul

Hi Deek! 
I had a bunch of foreign material in my tailstock and had to disassemble it and soak it in cleaner. I wouldn't worry about any low spots inside the barrel, they'll catch oil and that's good. If you have any high spots a small fine brake master cylinder or wheel hone will take care of that, just keep the hone oiled well and one pass then check for high spots or burrs that would scratch the new quill.
Mikbul


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## Stieglitz

Hi Mikbul,
             Great looking lathe and what an orderly workshop,good inspiration.Do great things.
Cheers.


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## Pierkemo

Hello Mikbul,

Nice work, i learn about this pictures!
Thanks,
Pierkemo


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## mikbul

Stieglitz said:


> Hi Mikbul,
> Great looking lathe and what an orderly workshop,good inspiration.Do great things.
> Cheers.


 
Thanks,
It gets messy sometimes!
Mikbul


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## mikbul

Pierkemo said:


> Hello Mikbul,
> 
> Nice work, i learn about this pictures!
> Thanks,
> Pierkemo


I'm happy the thread is still going and is helpful.
Mikbul


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## mikbul

Just to clear up my earlier recommendation for the Tormach OXA size quick change toolholder I had left over with all the tooling from my Micromark 7X16. It bolts right on but if I didn't already have one I would go a size bigger. I use the tool holder that came with the lathe for steel and the cutoff tool otherwise it will flex. It's a Pita but hate to loose the $ I paid for the OXA. Maybe at some point someone will buy the set and I'll upgrade.
Mikbul


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## tlfamm

(My inaugural post, 5 years after joining)

I've been alternately fascinated at the resiliency and persistence of the OP, and sometimes annoyed at the uneven support provided by Grizzly to new owners of the SB1001.  The machine has caught my attention, and I've given some consideration to purchasing one, but haven't made a decision.



I've been a Grizzly customer for 5 years, generally satisfied with the in-warranty support I've had. But I did want to pass on one thing I've learned:


Grizzly, "Purveyor of Fine Machinery" has no stated "sunset policy".  When a product is withdrawn from the market, for how long will they provide support and parts to existing customers?


Five years ago I purchased a Grizzly RF45 clone (G0480).  I had some warranty issues in the first few months, but Grizzly provided the parts and I was satisfied.


Between five and eight months after my purchase, Grizzly dropped the machine from their lineup.  In an email to Grizzly support I inquired about the future availability of support and parts.  I'll summarize the answer succinctly:


The existing parts inventory for the G0480 will be allowed to self-extinguish, and there will be no future support or parts.


In hindsite, I developed a suspicion that there never had been a substantial parts inventory for that model:

1.  Grizzly told me (in veiled terms) that the relationship with the manufacturer had been unsatisfactory from the get-go, and that is why the G0480 was dropped.

2.  I had a vague suspicion that the parts provided to me were stripped from a floor model, as an apparently "as-is" G0480 appeared on an "Outlet" page on the web site, _after_ the G0480 was dropped from the product line.

3.  From memory, I think the G0480 was sold by Grizzly for less than three years - given a bad relationship with the manufacturer, how large a parts inventory could/would have been established to begin with?

===================================================================

The South Bend model SB1001 is in "closeout" status.   What kind of support and parts inventory will Grizzly be providing, and for how long?


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## Stieglitz

Hi Mikbul,
             Thanks for sharing a great looking lathe you have there.I can only drool as I look at my 1968 model Myford that is in a state of resurrection.
Cheers.


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## tlfamm

mikbul said:


> Just to clear up my earlier recommendation for the Tormach OXA size quick change toolholder I had left over with all the tooling from my Micromark 7X16. It bolts right on but if I didn't already have one I would go a size bigger. I use the tool holder that came with the lathe for steel and the cutoff tool otherwise it will flex. It's a Pita but hate to loose the $ I paid for the OXA. Maybe at some point someone will buy the set and I'll upgrade.
> Mikbul



Here's an owner who did add an axa QCTP to his SB1001:

http://kent-vandervelden.blogspot.com/2013/11/aloris-axa-on-south-bend-sb1001-lathe.html


The compound has to be milled, and it's questionable whether or not there is really enough meat on it to anchor the mounting stud.


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## deek

Well, I just got my Aloris MXA QCTP a couple of days ago.  Aloris is having a pretty good sale on a set.

I have to say the fit and finish is outstanding.  I originally purchased and OXA from LMS.  It worked, but I had trouble keeping it tightened down.  It was about 1/2 the cost of the discounted Aloris, but I have to say I'd gladly pay for the Aloris again.

The Aloris grabs the tool holder tightly.  The worm mechanism is smooth and tight.  Everything moves smoothly.  The screws for holding the tool piece are beefier than the one I had.  In fact, everything is beefier on the Aloris. 

The MXA requires either that you bore the post hole to accommodate the metric post or that you replace the post with the 3/8 variety.  I elected to bore the post hole.

Remove the post sleeve from the tool and chuck it in the lathe. Then bore and ream.  I reamed to .4009.  I measured the post at .4002.  It seems to fit nicely.

When I need to adjust the angle of the post, it tightens down nicely and stays put.

On past posts with warranty issues: Griz sent out a quill lock.  I polished the quill and quill housing, cleaned everything up, and reinstalled the quill on the tailstock.  Works fine.  I got a piece of brass.  I think I'm going to replace the cast lock with a brass one, but I've got a couple of other small projects ahead of it.

Peace


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## mikbul

I just dropped in to see what was going on and thank anyone for their response, sorry it took so long. Deek it sounds like you've got things hashed out to your liking and my SB1001 is still working nicely. 
Mikbul


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## mikbul

Here's an updated list:


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## chester179

Interesting thread and thanks for posting . My impression is that it seems like there are manafacturing issues traceable to Taiwan but overall Grizzly seem to have responded pretty well in terms of customer support , especially considering its a heavily discounted relatively low budget lathe. 
2 questions - are the roller bearings better than shell bearings or direct machined headstock type bearings.
And on page 19 you say the "standard races were junk" , do you mean they were destroyed (junked) by the lubrication failure that you suffered or that the originally fitted races are just simply junk.


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## mikbul

The replacement bearings Grizzly sent me were made in India (ZNL) and were inferior in manufacture. The OEM bearings were standard auto transmission bearings so I purchased some FAG German made bearings as an upgrade since it was apart.
Mikbul


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## mikbul

BTW you can go down to NAPA and purchase SDK replacement bearings made in Brazil which will work just fine if you don't want to spring for the FAG's.
Mikbul


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## tlfamm

mikbul said:


> The replacement bearings Grizzly sent me were made in India (ZNL) and were inferior in manufacture. The OEM bearings were standard auto transmission bearings so I purchased some FAG German made bearings as an upgrade since it was apart.
> Mikbul



If I'm interpreting your post correctly, the replacement bearings sent by Grizzly were inferior to the auto transmission bearings the machine was originally equipped with?   So the replacement bearings would be what - rickshaw bearings?

Doesn't this answer the question I posed previously:

-->The South Bend model SB1001 is in "closeout" status. What kind of support and parts inventory will Grizzly be providing, and for how long?<--


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## mikbul

Like I said in my previous post these bearings are a common # and used for hundreds of applications at $20-$30.00 a set so at the reduced price not an issue. For a home shop I wouldn't loose sleep. For production buy the 10K.


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## Bowman

Greetings, I registered because of this thread and would like to add to the pile. I was desperate for a small lathe with quickchange chuck as I go between 3 and 4-jaw in my work. Based on the first 50 or so postings this lathe seemed like a no brainer and I ordered it, without reading further 

Lathe SN# SB1001-1151, shipped out of PA.

I haven't run the lathe, or broken into the bearings quite yet, but that will obviously happen. The attached photo shows the first order of business with tech support, the spindle nose. I'll let you know how this unfolds...


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## Swifty

How could a lathe with a spindle nose like that even leave the factory, absolutely no quality control.

Paul.


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## Wizard69

That is pathetic!    

I kinda doubt Grizzly will be dealing with the company that built these lathes anymore.


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## Bowman

It was a bit of a shock unboxing it to discover this. Measuring the runout on the spindle, my measurement came out a factor of 6 off from the certificate that was included!!!! It leads me to believe that perhaps someone robbed Peter to pay Paul somewhere along the line... but that's just just speculation. The other problem that is not a surprise, now that I've worked my way through this thread, are the gear change pulleys that are too tight to fit onto the sleeves, and all the grit that had to be cleaned out of everything when it was de-greased (why is it that they can't clean and properly lubricate their parts before assembly like the rest of the world???).

If I don't get prompt attention from Grizzly to fix this, I'll have no choice but to return it. I just don't have the luxury of down time. Wish me luck.


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## Wizard69

Bowman said:


> It was a bit of a shock unboxing it to discover this. Measuring the runout on the spindle, my measurement came out a factor of 6 off from the certificate that was included!!!! It leads me to believe that perhaps someone robbed Peter to pay Paul somewhere along the line... but that's just just speculation. The other problem that is not a surprise, now that I've worked my way through this thread, are the gear change pulleys that are too tight to fit onto the sleeves, and all the grit that had to be cleaned out of everything when it was de-greased (why is it that they can't clean and properly lubricate their parts before assembly like the rest of the world???).
> 
> 
> 
> If I don't get prompt attention from Grizzly to fix this, I'll have no choice but to return it. I just don't have the luxury of down time. Wish me luck.




Hopefully thus is resolved quickly.     This is a massive shame in that the lathe is well designed and as such has great potential.   There really isn't a small lather out there right now that came close to what this one is.   Or maybe I should say could have been.  I have a feel Grizzly got promised a jewel of a lathe from a company that simply couldn't deliver.


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## tlfamm

Wizard69 said:


> ...
> I have a feel Grizzly got promised a jewel of a lathe from a company that simply couldn't deliver.




Frequently Grizzly is just acting as a big-box retailer, selling whatever products the factory chooses to produce, sometimes with small scale Grizzly-designed enhancements.  But in the case of the SB1001, Grizzly guided the whole product development from design to production, including choosing the producer.  I do think that a "jewel" was promised - at least implicitly by putting the South Bend name on it - but if you want a real jewel of a lathe, then I think Taiwan production (at substantially higher costs) is mandatory.  But, in essence, Grizzly can get whatever quality it wants and is willing to pay for.


Grizzly terminated the product because the designed-in price point was unsustainable in the market place - and this for a lathe produced in China.  Higher cost Taiwan production would only have made the problem worse.


So, was the Chinese company unable to deliver some level of quality, or did Grizzly, in abandoning the product, inform the factory to produce the last batch(es) of lathes at lowest price possible - taking whatever quality hit might ensue?

Kudos to Grizzly for investing the money, time and effort to develop the machine.  Sorry the economics didn't work.  As to whether or not Grizzly has responsibly terminated the product line, that remains to be seen.


Good luck to poster/purchaser Bowman - I hope a quick resolution is forthcoming ...


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## Wizard69

tlfamm said:


> Frequently Grizzly is just acting as a big-box retailer, selling whatever products the factory chooses to produce, sometimes with small scale Grizzly-designed enhancements.  But in the case of the SB1001, Grizzly guided the whole product development from design to production, including choosing the producer.  I do think that a "jewel" was promised - at least implicitly by putting the South Bend name on it - but if you want a real jewel of a lathe, then I think Taiwan production (at substantially higher costs) is mandatory.  But, in essence, Grizzly can get whatever quality it wants and is willing to pay for.


This is more or less Meyer understanding, the lathe was custom designed for Grizzly.   From the standpoint of design it is a really nice lathe, that of course can be completely undermined by poor manufacturing.  


> Grizzly terminated the product because the designed-in price point was unsustainable in the market place - and this for a lathe produced in China.  Higher cost Taiwan production would only have made the problem worse.


Was it really terminated due to price?    I really don't know but I was under the impression there was more to it than that.  


> So, was the Chinese company unable to deliver some level of quality, or did Grizzly, in abandoning the product, inform the factory to produce the last batch(es) of lathes at lowest price possible - taking whatever quality hit might ensue?


I suspect the factory was unable to deliver.   


> Kudos to Grizzly for investing the money, time and effort to develop the machine.  Sorry the economics didn't work.  As to whether or not Grizzly has responsibly terminated the product line, that remains to be seen.
> 
> 
> Good luck to poster/purchaser Bowman - I hope a quick resolution is forthcoming ...




This is likely one of those things where we will never know the whole story.    I was personally very impressed with the lathe in Grizzly's show room when it first came out.   If it wasn't for the 9x20 I already have I probably would have been an owner.


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## mikbul

Bowman said:


> It was a bit of a shock unboxing it to discover this. Measuring the runout on the spindle, my measurement came out a factor of 6 off from the certificate that was included!!!! It leads me to believe that perhaps someone robbed Peter to pay Paul somewhere along the line... but that's just just speculation. The other problem that is not a surprise, now that I've worked my way through this thread, are the gear change pulleys that are too tight to fit onto the sleeves, and all the grit that had to be cleaned out of everything when it was de-greased (why is it that they can't clean and properly lubricate their parts before assembly like the rest of the world???).
> 
> If I don't get prompt attention from Grizzly to fix this, I'll have no choice but to return it. I just don't have the luxury of down time. Wish me luck.


 
Hello Bowman,
From your ser# I believe that lathe was built in 2011 like mine and most of the other problem units. If I can help let me know.
Mikbul

BTW that lathe is machined in the same factory in Taiwan as the 10K with German and Japanese machinery so that spindle nose is a mystery.
Mikbul


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## Bowman

Thank you gentlemen for your support, advice and comments. 
Since last time, I've looked at 4 used lathes but none of them were serviceable, so I've opted to change out the spindle and see if I can tune this one up. Not what I wanted to do, or feel I should be doing, but I have no option now but to follow through. Grizzly says they put one in the mail for me. (by the way, I can't believe how much grit and chips I've pulled and washed out of this machine so far!)

Thank you for the offer to help Mikbul. Since you have been down this road before me, I will PM you with a few specific questions in a day or two.


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## Wizard69

mikbul said:


> Hello Bowman,
> From your ser# I believe that lathe was built in 2011 like mine and most of the other problem units. If I can help let me know.
> Mikbul
> 
> BTW that lathe is machined in the same factory in Taiwan as the 10K with German and Japanese machinery so that spindle nose is a mystery.
> Mikbul




Hmm I seem to remember reading that the lathe was produced in a separate facility.


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## mikbul

You also might want to check out my thread on Practical Machinist titled "New SB1001". 
30 pages
59,715 views
591 replies
Started 10-22-2013
mikbul


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## mikbul

Wizard69 said:


> Hmm I seem to remember reading that the lathe was produced in a separate facility.


 
Pm won't allow discussion of home shop Chinese lathes 
mikbul


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## Bowman

Ok, so I received a new spindle and it looks nicely ground compared to the gnawed one in previous post. I removed the old one and washed the bearings in kerosene to remove the grease, and found about 1/4 teaspoon of metal bits and grit in the wash. It never ends. So I ordered replacement bearings from the autoparts store as the bearings and races had been mildy scored (remember this is a new lathe that I haven't run yet, and is merely factory tested). It's new, I want to start with new bearings, not much to ask! 

I've seen the nifty press by Mikbul, but I can't figure out how he pulled the races. There are no relief points in the casting to allow a punch and the shoulder of the race is close enough to the casting that it won't hold a punch on it's own. Ideas? 

On a separate note, the quill was ground oversize so some Mt2 taper tools don't fit. They are sending a new quill. 

Customer service has been good. The lathe on the other hand has cost me more in down time than it's worth at this point, but here I am hoping the next fix get it on line.


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## mikbul

Bowman said:


> Ok, so I received a new spindle and it looks nicely ground compared to the gnawed one in previous post. I removed the old one and washed the bearings in kerosene to remove the grease, and found about 1/4 teaspoon of metal bits and grit in the wash. It never ends. So I ordered replacement bearings from the autoparts store as the bearings and races had been mildy scored (remember this is a new lathe that I haven't run yet, and is merely factory tested). It's new, I want to start with new bearings, not much to ask!
> 
> I've seen the nifty press by Mikbul, but I can't figure out how he pulled the races. There are no relief points in the casting to allow a punch and the shoulder of the race is close enough to the casting that it won't hold a punch on it's own. Ideas?
> 
> On a separate note, the quill was ground oversize so some Mt2 taper tools don't fit. They are sending a new quill.
> 
> Customer service has been good. The lathe on the other hand has cost me more in down time than it's worth at this point, but here I am hoping the next fix get it on line.


 
I relieved the casting with a dremel just enough to catch the race with a drift. Then I worked my way around with an old chisel acting like a wedge between the race and casting until it was far enough apart to get a proper drift on it. 
Mikbul


----------



## mikbul

mikbul said:


> I relieved the casting with a dremel just enough to catch the race with a drift. Then I worked my way around with an old chisel acting like a wedge between the race and casting until it was far enough apart to get a proper drift on it.
> Mikbul


 
Note: Make sure to cut one of the old races in half to slide around the seat to find any burrs you made, file them out until the half race seats properly and you're all set.

BTW. As I said somewhere back in the threads anyone who wants to use the special tools I've made just cover shipping to and back.
1. Cut race
2. ground down allen wrench
3. home-made spanner
4. race puller (pulls the races INTO place)
5. steel tube to push the OUTER bearing onto it's seat using the spindle nut (tape over the inner bearing seat while using the tube to not scratch the seat.)
6. Ground down old race to seat the new race all the way home & not get stuck. (Works with the #4 puller)

I used the spindle nut with spacers(pulley, rpm pickup, etc.) to push the INNER bearing onto it's seat.
mikbul


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## mikbul

I thought I'd bring the photos of race removal/install back up.


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## Bowman

Thank you for bringing these pictures back up, very helpful. Your suggestion to grind relief points in the casting to punch the races out worked perfectly, thank you. 

I wasn't expecting to replace the bearings until I saw how much grit was in them, so I had to jump on making the tools to replace the races and bearings, otherwise I would have taken you up on your generous offer to share your tools. (I still have to locate a steel tube to press the bearing on). 

Hopefully it will all be back together and spinning this afternoon.


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## Tanshanomi

Wow, I really should've paid closer attention to setup of my 8K before I started using it, I just lubed it and spun it in. But I got  a 3/13 build out of Springfield, so perhaps mine was in better shape? In any case, it doesn't vibrate or make any undue noise, and seems happy to do what I ask of it.


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## deek

Some of us got the 2011 build, which is likely just NOS.

I complained to Grizzly about my build, but they were unresponsive.  They did not admit any issues with the 2011 build (purchased in 2014).  If I had to guess, I'd say they cleaned up the issues on the 2011 build with the later builds, but then decided to simply sell off their old stock.  Pure and Idle speculation, but that seems to be the simplest explanation.

My lathe is now working great.  I went through all the bearing issues along with a handful of other issues.  I will say that Grizzly was quick to send out new parts, but you're on your own for the actual diagnosing and repair.

I won't buy from Grizzly again, but that's just me.  I'm sure they have some good machines out there.


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## Swifty

It's a shame that there have been so many problems with this lathe, it looks a great machine, if the spindle problems were sorted out they may have had a real winner there.

Paul.


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## Wizard69

Swifty said:


> It's a shame that there have been so many problems with this lathe, it looks a great machine, if the spindle problems were sorted out they may have had a real winner there.
> 
> Paul.




I suspect that Grizzly got screwed royally by its supplier here.  As noted the machine "looks" like a winner but was let down by the shoddy workmanship we seem to be seeing in these posts.


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## tlfamm

Wizard69 said:


> I suspect that Grizzly got screwed royally by its supplier here.  As noted the machine "looks" like a winner but was let down by the shoddy workmanship we seem to be seeing in these posts.



Grizzly is not some casual, victimized  bystander in this affair.  If indeed their chosen supplier could not/would not meet reasonable standards of quality, the solution is certainly not for Grizzly to throw up their hands in despair and abandon the product, meanwhile pushing a defective production run out to the customer base.  After 30 years in the business, one presumes that Grizzly indeed knows how to negotiate a contract, knows how to stipulate quality metrics, knows how to stipulate penalty clauses for failure to meet agreed upon requirements, and knows how to chose a reputable supplier.


Supplier problems are solvable problems, provided that sufficient will exists on the part of Grizzly, and that the product is economically viable to begin with.


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## mikbul

Way before the issue with the grease in the spindle bearings the project was doomed because of the high price and more emphasis on the 10K. It just wasn't selling at the price point they needed to keep it in production. If it did sell like P. Grizzly hoped they would have jumped on the bearing issue. When they decided to stop production they dropped the price about $1200.00. To me cleaning out a couple bearings for a $1200.00 discount was a no brainer. To get a lathe with camlock, flame hardened v-ways, variable speed, 1-1/8" spindle bore etc. I don't think you will ever see another lathe in this size of this quality for this price. My two threads, HMEM and Practical Machinist were a lot of work but got the needed info out to those who actually OWN an 8K and that was worth the time.


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## tlfamm

"It just wasn't selling at the price point they needed to keep it in production."

That's it in a nutshell.  If the lathe were selling, Grizzly would not have ended production, and would not have allowed any supplier problems to interfere with production.


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## Wizard69

tlfamm said:


> Grizzly is not some casual, victimized  bystander in this affair.


Bystander no but somebody dropped the ball when it came to quality on these machines. 


> If indeed their chosen supplier could not/would not meet reasonable standards of quality, the solution is certainly not for Grizzly to throw up their hands in despair and abandon the product, meanwhile pushing a defective production run out to the customer base.


Yet from all appearances this is exactly what has happened.  


> After 30 years in the business, one presumes that Grizzly indeed knows how to negotiate a contract, knows how to stipulate quality metrics, knows how to stipulate penalty clauses for failure to meet agreed upon requirements, and knows how to chose a reputable supplier.


I'm not even sure this is true.   I've had very mixed results with stuff I've personally have purchased from Grizzly.    

Further there quality standards seem to vary significantly with the product.   One visit to the store in PA, a few years ago, to purchase a drill press pretty much convinced me that the take whatever the manufacture sends them.  At the time I didn't really want to buy a large drill press but ultimately wasn't willing to a comet the quality in display for the smaller drill presses in their lineup.  We are talking here about sloppy quils, and sloppy spindles in the machines right on the show room floor.  That really shocked me as you see better quality in home center drill presses.  


> Supplier problems are solvable problems, provided that sufficient will exists on the part of Grizzly, and that the product is economically viable to begin with.


Maybe the sales where bad, I really don't know.   The fact that models from several years ago are shipping out of Grizzly does imply poor sales.  The economy being bad is likely partly to blame.   That combined with the expectations many had for really cheap small machines is likely a factor also in the poor sales.   The problem is the lathe was actually pretty impressive spec wise and you would have had a very hard time rebuilding a 9x20, for example, into a lathe with equivalent capability.  

As for supplier problems, as wide spread as the issues are I'm pretty sure the supplier had no intention of building to the quality level Grizzly expected.  One or two bad lathes slipping through would have been notable but here we have many cases demonstrating a lack of quality control.


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## tlfamm

tlfamm:
>>After  30 years in the business, one presumes that Grizzly indeed knows how to  negotiate a contract, knows how to stipulate quality metrics, knows how  to stipulate penalty clauses for failure to meet agreed upon  requirements, and knows how to chose a reputable supplier. 

Wizard69
>>>>I'm not even sure this is true.   I've had very  mixed results with stuff I've personally have purchased from Grizzly.


My experience as well (see my comments above on the Grizzly RF45 clone)- but recall another of my comments way back about Grizzly generally functioning as a big-box retailer (and accepting & selling whatever the factory produces), but, more rarely, acting as a machine-tool designer- which they clearly were with the mini South Bend lathe.  I'm inclined to believe that Shiraz had perfectly good intentions with  this machine (he is certainly enthusiastic about the South Bend brand) , and made his expectations clear (even contractually) to the supplier.  Shiraz knows machine tools, and is certainly a successful businessman - he has all the skills and experience necessary to get what he wants.  I cannot believe he did not want the best for the product.

Once it became clear that the machine wasn't selling (did Grizzly even recover the development costs?),  I suspect that everyone went into cut-our-losses mode and concerns about quality were discarded.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a small corporation, Grizzly can't really afford to nurture a slow-selling product indefinitely - they have no choice but  to demand a specific return on investment in a finite amount of time.   That's mandatory for any enterprise which hopes to survive - but what if Grizzly had deeper pockets and could have held out longer (say 8 years instead of 4 years), all the while insisting on the supplier meeting the high expectations that a South Bend labeled product would produce (even an Asian sourced model).

An 8-year product ramp-up cycle (combined with a lower price) might, or might not, have made a difference in terms of market penetration.   Clearly Shiraz didn't think so and didn't want to prolong the financial exposure for that length of time - and we do have to respect his business savy, while regretting that the product didn't succeed.


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## deek

hey peoples,

I just stripped one of the t-bolts that holds the compound rest in place.  The t-bolt has a thin nut and it doesn't take much to over tighten.

I've order 8m 1.25 grade 10 t-bolts from McMaster to replace along with thin nuts (grade 4) and regular nuts (grade 10).   I don't know what grade those t-bolts are in the machine, but I'm certain they are not grade 10.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Incidentally, I've got another 25 hours on the Aloris MP tool holder and love it.  Virtually no chatter and it stays put wherever I set it.

deek


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## mikbul

I've been reading the posts on Grizzly quality and right after I bought the 8K I ordered a drill press and there is no comparison in quality to the 8K. Drilling holes in steel plate the chuck kept falling out and took a lot of messing around to get it to stay. I think I'm going to put my South Bend chuck in it, I can still pop it out if I need it in the lathe. The problems with the 8K were stupidity and poor Q/C on a very good machine, but it still is much better than the drill press.
Anyway I wanted to give you 8K owners or followers first chance on some machine tools I'm selling. I will post them in the proper place after 24hrs.
Contact me personally with interest, I won't respond on this thread.

1. Miller test bar
2. Brown & Sharp # 1 (599-1-32) NOS 0-1" micrometer
3. " " (599-3-33) NOS 2-3" " "
4. Mit. 102-226 0-1" " "
5. Mit. 102-124 1-2" " "
6. South Bend Bull Nose Center MT #2

Mikbul


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## mikbul

deek said:


> hey peoples,
> 
> I just stripped one of the t-bolts that holds the compound rest in place. The t-bolt has a thin nut and it doesn't take much to over tighten.
> 
> I've order 8m 1.25 grade 10 t-bolts from McMaster to replace along with thin nuts (grade 4) and regular nuts (grade 10). I don't know what grade those t-bolts are in the machine, but I'm certain they are not grade 10.
> 
> I'll let you guys know how it goes.
> 
> Incidentally, I've got another 25 hours on the Aloris MP tool holder and love it. Virtually no chatter and it stays put wherever I set it.
> 
> deek


 
Hi Deek,
Glad to hear the good news with the Aloris. You've taken things to the next level with the 8K. I'm still using the OXA and the stock 4-way but am thinking about selling the OXA set-up with tooling.
Mikbul


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## deek

The T-bolts are installed and the larger grade 10 nuts fit perfectly.

I had to turn down part of the square shoulder of the bolt and shave a bit of the head to make it work.  I also had to shorten the bolt to fit.  Otherwise, I can put a little more oompf on the bolt and the cross slide is now solid.

Thanks always Mikbul for the encouraging words.

Hey, I'm interested in the bull nose.  What are you looking to get for it?

Thanks,
deek


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## mikbul

deek said:


> The T-bolts are installed and the larger grade 10 nuts fit perfectly.
> 
> I had to turn down part of the square shoulder of the bolt and shave a bit of the head to make it work. I also had to shorten the bolt to fit. Otherwise, I can put a little more oompf on the bolt and the cross slide is now solid.
> 
> Thanks always Mikbul for the encouraging words.
> 
> Hey, I'm interested in the bull nose. What are you looking to get for it?
> 
> Thanks,
> deek


 
$50.00 plus ship.
Mikbul


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## Tanshanomi

Just went to the Grizzly website and noticed that the 8K/SB1001 is no longer listed. I wonder if the pipeline has finally dried up.


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## deek

I'm back!

I've had the lathe nearly a year now and have a lot more time on the 8K, so I thought I'd just add to Mikbul's thread.

Overall, I'd say I'm very happy with the 8K.  I've learned how to get a decent bite on various metals.  You need to have everything tight to make a good cut.  I also got a hold of a pafana rh index tool.  It's pretty nice.  I've got the AR warner tools and they are good, but this pafana is just beefier and cuts nicely without chatter.

I've found the TCMT 21.52's are nice for aluminum. The 21.51 for brass and steel.  The 21.50 is ok for threading, but I'm going to give AR warner's combination threading tool a try. I was getting some tearing of threads with this arrangement.

Parting is no problem and finishes are pretty good.

I do have continued issues with the cross slide.  The most recent is that the t slot bent upward.  The cause looks like the terrible milling of the clamp ring.  The relief milled into the corner of the clamp ring is nearly .125 on one side and .06 on the other.  The result is that the top of the t-slot is not meeting the metal of the clamp, so the entire holding force of the compound is exerted on the hanging top of the t-slot.  Well it was anyway.  It's now damaged.  I've contacted Griz for a warranty replacement. We'll see how that goes.  I'll post a couple of pics for reference.

Other issues are that the gear changing for threads is just a pain in the neck.  The brass bushings for each of the gear axles are particular to their respective axles.  Don't switch them up as they bind.  Additionally, the gears are not all properly reamed to fit the bushing.  You must take care to assemble the gears in the proper orientation or the belt will slip.  I chewed through one belt is short order. doh.  When you go to put the belts on, you must tighten from bottom up.  There are several axles that must be tightened in order or you won't be able to get everything adjusted properly.

Spindle bearings do not seem to be an issue.  I hit them with oil before every session.

I made a new lock nut for the tailstock out of brass.  It works much better than the terrible cast one.

Paint seems to be holding up ok. There are chips and bondo exposed here and there.  Nothing too unexpected.  The powder coat on the housing is holding up well.

No other issues that I can think of.

I keep asking myself if I'd buy it again.  And I guess I would.  I like old iron as much as anyone.  I got my 626 mill for 100.00, tore it down, and brought it back.  It was fun, but I wasn't ready to do that with a lathe.  There are a lot of things I really like about this lathe - 1.5 HP DC motor; auto shut down if you crash the chuck; 1" bore spindle; hardened ways; and variable speed.  Since I am new to a lathe, it's a good size to start with - enough power to progress, but not so much that mistakes break equipment and body parts. (not to suggest you can't get physically hurt).  Old iron around here (west coast) is not easy to find and is expensive.  I constantly wish I had access to east coast machinery.  In addition, for the size, it's remarkably stable.

I'm thinking in another year or so I'll consider moving up.  But for learning and progressing, this lathe has been pretty well.


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## Stieglitz

Hi mikbul,
             I am impressed,thanks for the photos a real gem.


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## mikbul

Hello Deek,

Bummer about your cross-slide! That's the first failure I've seen?
Mikbul


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## mikbul

Stieglitz said:


> Hi mikbul,
> I am impressed,thanks for the photos a real gem.


 
Thanks, I'm still using it with no other problems. I've been doing some light gunsmithing with it. I'm converting an old Ithica .22 LR into an .22 cal. M1 Carbine. I'll need to cut the barrel from 21" to 18" and re-crown it. It's a tapered barrel so I'll have to get inventive to clamp it in the jaws. I also made some new pins for the rolling breech block on a Stevens Favorite model 1894. That gun is over 100 years old! There's a similar gun at the NRA National Firearms Museum in Va. in the Teddy Roosevelt Collection although that's a model 1915 that's looks the same be some internals are different (extractor, mainspring etc.).
Mikbul


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## deek

Hey Mikbul,

Griz sent a cross slide and clamp.  Wow.  The machining on the replacement is far superior than the original.  Now it only takes snugging up the nuts to lock the tool post up.  I wonder why they just don't do it right the first time.  

The cross slide plate is slightly thicker than the original, so I had to recalibrate the tool holders to center.

Next up, a single point threading tool.  Although I'm thinking about a die head.  Anyone got any insight?  The gears are such a pain I think it might be worth the coin to spring for a die head... emphasis on "might."


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## mikbul

Can't answer that but glad they sent new parts. Never had a problem with mine and only need to snug the tool post down. 
mikbul


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## Stieglitz

Hi Mikbul,
             Certainly something to drool over,so clean and neat.
I suspect that you may be a Surgeon.(please take no offence).
Cheers
Allen.


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## mikbul

mikbul said:


> Thanks, I'm still using it with no other problems. I've been doing some light gunsmithing with it. I'm converting an old Ithica .22 LR into an .22 cal. M1 Carbine. I'll need to cut the barrel from 21" to 18" and re-crown it. It's a tapered barrel so I'll have to get inventive to clamp it in the jaws. I also made some new pins for the rolling breech block on a Stevens Favorite model 1894. That gun is over 100 years old! There's a similar gun at the NRA National Firearms Museum in Va. in the Teddy Roosevelt Collection although that's a model 1915 that's looks the same be some internals are different (extractor, mainspring etc.).
> Mikbul


 

Here's some photos of my M1 Carbine project.


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## mikbul

Hey Larry 1, long time no see!

Here's a couple shots of the gun assembled. It needs a final sanding and then a coat of satin to look more like an M1 (Linseed oil) The gun started life as an Ithica X-15 .22 LR.

Mikbul


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## mikbul

I'm selling my South Bend 5" 3-jaw chuck seen in post #392. It's slathered with oil for winter so is much shinier when wiped down. Very tight and precise. Reverse-able jaws. $400.00 plus shipping.

I also have a spare SB1001 spindle for $50.00

Mikbul


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## gambit_mb

If it wasn't for the Canadian dollar being so lousy right now, I would be jumping on this.  I remember how accurate this chuck is.  Did you end up getting yourself an early Christmas present?

Hope you are still enjoying the 8K.


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## mikbul

Hello Gambit! As a matter of fact I did! I purchased a Ruger Mini 14 in 5.56 NATO! 

Mikbul


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## mikbul

Here's a photo of the .22/M1 finished.


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## mikbul

Before I post some machine tools to the classifieds I thought I'd give you SB1001 followers a heads up. I won't post any $ but send a personal message if you see the need for anything.
Mikbul

1. Several Brown & Sharpe micrometers:
0-1" Swiss
2-3" Swiss
4-5" US
2. Miller Test Bar 3MT
3. South Bend 5" reversible 3-jaw D1-3 Chuck. 
4. South Bend SB1001, FAG spindle bearings, all included tools & manual plus set of 3/8" insert turning tools.
More coming.


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## gambit_mb

Where did you find those micrometers?  Nice!  I am saving my cash to build some  equipment for the lathe and my mill.  It seems to be hard to do since I keep spending all my money on stocks right now since they are super cheap here on the TSX here in Canada.  

I might find enough cash to build myself an ER-40 collet chuck though.  Just going to pick up a 5" D1-3 backing plate and then get a plain back ER-40 collet chuck from the UK to mount on it.

I haven't really been doing much on my machines this past year.  Hoping to get enough tooling and such to build my first model engine.

What have you been doing on your lathe?  How are those fancy bearings of yours doing?  Why did you sell your (much more accurate than the original) chuck?


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## mikbul

Those micrometers are from my collection that I'm selling off. I still have the 5" South Bend Chuck for $400.00 and the bearings are precise and quiet. I also have a South Bend Bull Nose for sale.
Mikbul


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## Tanshanomi

Sorry if I'm hijacking the conversation, but does anybody have recommendations on a milling attachment that might be a good match for the 8K?


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## gambit_mb

I have not used one on my 8K yet.  If I was to get one, I would try this one out http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1681&category=
I believe you would still need to make an adapter for it to mount to the cross slide.

Also, you could check out these in the UK http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Lathe_Milling_Slides.html
These look like better quality and more accuracy when adding other attachments to it.

UK sources have a much larger selection of small lathe attachments and goodies.  Model engine building seems to be extremely popular in the UK which helps with the supply of these types of products.  You can find some other goodies in the UK you may have never seen before.


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## ibuildstuff4u

I see I missed the boat and Grizzly no longer sells this lathe due to the lack of sales.  I really wish I would have found a way to buy one, but funds were tight last year.  I'm really sick of messing around with my 9x20 lathe and want something better.

Thanks for posting all the picts and the wonderful review.

Dale P.


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## Wizard69

ibuildstuff4u said:


> I see I missed the boat and Grizzly no longer sells this lathe due to the lack of sales.  I really wish I would have found a way to buy one, but funds were tight last year.  I'm really sick of messing around with my 9x20 lathe and want something better.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting all the picts and the wonderful review.
> 
> 
> 
> Dale P.




I'm not sure why Griz stopped sales but right at the moment there really isn't anything on the market, that I know of, that is reasonably priced.    You would be better off rebuilding a Chinese lathe, a 9x20 maybe,  into a decent machine.


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## Tanshanomi

Wizard69 said:


> I'm not sure why Griz stopped sales but right at the moment there really isn't anything on the market, that I know of, that is reasonably priced.    You would be better off rebuilding a Chinese lathe, a 9x20 maybe,  into a decent machine.



The reason why the 8K was so much better than everything else in its price range was the same reason Grizzly discontinued it. The 8K was originally designed to retail for $3295, but it sold very poorly at that price. They sold off the remaining stock at a huge discount, and even then it took a while to run through. The price was dropped first to $2995 (sometime in 2012, IIRC) and eventually to $1965 by the fall of 2013. I am sure by then they were either losing money or at the very least not making anything. Further production wouldn't make sense at that point, because the product had proven itself unprofitable. Those of us who got one were just fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of their marketing miscalculation.


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## Wizard69

Tanshanomi said:


> There reason why the 8K was so much better than everything else in its price range was the same reason Grizzly discontinued it. The 8K was originally designed to retail for $3295, but it sold very poorly at that price. They sold off the remaining stock at a huge discount, and even then it took a while to run through. The price was dropped first to $2995 (sometime in 2012, IIRC) and eventually to $1965 by the fall of 2013. I am sure by then they were either losing money or at the very least not making anything. Further production wouldn't make sense at that point, because the product had proven itself unprofitable. Those of us who got one were just fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of their marketing miscalculation.




I was most impressed with the machine when looking it over in Muncy years ago.   Unfortunately I purchased a 9x20 a couple of years earlier.   The problem is, as I see it anyways, is that people don't want to pay for quality.   That and the economy having sucked so badly for the last 8-10 years.   Comments in the current Griz catalog leaves with the impression that things haven't gone well for them.  There actually seems to be less machinery that before in the catalog.   

In any event it is pretty sad to see the model fail, but then again my experience with Griz has been very mixed.


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## tlfamm

A significant percentage of the market for a small lathe like this(1) would be those baby-boomers who are interested in the HSM, or allied, hobbies.  As that market approaches saturation, (or shrinkage because of BB ageing and death), it  could only be sustained by younger generations stepping in.  I don't see evidence of that happening in great numbers.(2)

I don't have data for a statistical argument - just a suspicion that the market that Grizzly serves has gone "soft", and may not recover.  (In related news, has lathemaster shut down?)




(1) I'm excluding higher-cost industrial-oriented lathes.
(2) It *is* happening in my own family: my eldest son is an avid HSM'er - but we do not personally know of a single other young person so interested.


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## Tanshanomi

I think the two things that hurt the 8K were the limited swing over the bed and the lack of a quick-change gearbox. Those were notable disadvantages compared to other options buyers had at the price it was originally design to sell for.


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## mikbul

Want a better MT4.5-MT3 adapter than the piece of crap Grizzly included with your SB1001 (8K)? I have a Miller Machine precision ground adapter for $50.00 + shipping ($6.00)
Mikbul


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## tlfamm

It appears that Mikbul has put his SB 8K lathe on the market:

http://albany.craigslist.org/tls/5424751193.html


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## deek

Thought I'd post my chess set project that I did on the 8K.  I think I've got the 8K dialed in pretty well now.  I'm a big fan of pafana insert holders.  I tried one out and was very pleasantly surprised.  They are about twice what the AR Warner holders are, but they are really rigid.  I could see a big difference in the finish. 

Here are some thoughts on the lathe...  

On aluminum, a .005 cut is doable, but about at the limit for this lathe.  For steel .002 is the deepest I'd go, but the finish is not great.  I've used both HSS and carbide inserts on this lathe and I have to say I like the carbide better.  I've found on a 5/8 round, I need a live center after about 3 inches, which seems to be more a product of the material than the lathe.  There seems to be some slop in the compound that I can't seem to eliminate.  Gibs are tight.  Maybe it's just inherent flex.  On light cuts, the finish is fine with no chatter.

I got the AR Warner single point thread cutting tool.  Wow.  Works great.  I was using carbide for threading.  HSS is way better.

I'm still enjoying the machine and it seems to be running find.


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