# Approximate normal hourly wages in Australia?



## pete (Jun 26, 2010)

I just got a subscription to the Australian Model Engineering magazine and checked out a few of the advertisers web sites out of curiosity. Australias prices seem very high. One example would be for Sherline equipment and accesories $$$$. A comparison of what an Australian dollar is worth against the Canadian dollar is easily obtained using Goggle, But without having a general idea of what would be considered a average hourly pay rate it's hard to judge how bad people in this hobby are getting shafted. Obviously every job is different but a general idea of what someone makes per hr. in a blue collar industry would be helpfull. I work in the mining industry as a heavy equipment operator so anyone that does the same in Australia would be ideal for a comparison. Obviously this question is of no great importance but as I said I am curious.

Pete


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## Tin Falcon (Jun 26, 2010)

Not an ausie but will this help 
http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Heavy_Equipment_Operator/Hourly_Rate
Tin


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## pete (Jun 26, 2010)

Marv,
Sorry about posting in the questions and answers section but as I thought it was slightly on topic in regards to equipment costs it would be ok. No big deal. 

Tin, LOL, I had no idea that a website you posted a link to existed,Thanks for looking that up. Guess you really can find anything on Google. Hourly rate for my job is roughly in the same ball park to maybe a bit low until you factor in that an Australian dollar is worth .89 cents Canadian. I've always thought equipment costs in Canada were fairly high compared to prices in the U.S. but for any Australian members here, You have my deepest sympathy.

Pete


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## mklotz (Jun 26, 2010)

pete  said:
			
		

> Marv,
> Sorry about posting in the questions and answers section but as I thought it was slightly on topic in regards to equipment costs it would be ok. No big deal.



No need to apologize. It's a judgement call at best and it will be seen here just as well as it would have been in Q&A.


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## pete (Jun 26, 2010)

Marv,
I think your right.

Pete


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## Maryak (Jun 26, 2010)

Pete,

I agree with your observation about how much more we pay for our bits and pieces here compared to the US and Canada. Most of this, "extra," money ends up in the hands of the faceless middle men, (Importers and Distributors). I attempted a similar comparison between Oz and the UK and if you think we are being ripped off then our European colleagues are being gouged down to the bone.

Best Regards
Bob


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## pete (Jun 26, 2010)

Bob,
While I'd agree (and would be stupid if I didn't) About your being ripped off. I have read and have maybe been misinformed that Australia does have very high government import tariffs. This may have something to do with your high costs. Yeah, I just heard a few days ago about the U.K. increasing the VAT from "only" 17% to 20%. 

After seeing what your Sherline authorised dealer wants for this equipment and if I lived in Australia and wanted to buy this equipment then I would certainly consider trying to import it directly from Sherline. The paperwork/customs broker part is certainly a pain but who knows, The cost savings might make it well worth while. But again if the government tariffs are real high you may gain nothing.

On a side note tho, I am enjoying the 3 Aussie M.E. magazines I've recieved so far. If they continue to hold my interest then I'll certainly resubscribe.

Pete


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## HS93 (Jun 26, 2010)

I have recentley returnd from a month in Perth AUS , I was supprised at the price of RC equipment as it was one of the few things I could compare acuratley, at least +50 % compared to uk prices for equipment from the states or from hong kong, talking to a few modelers out there they get there stuff direct from the uk as its cheaper even with postage, spoke to a shop and they seemed to think it was the price they had to pay to have it shipped to Aus ,when I said it was a shorter run for a lot of the stuff to Aus than the UK they just said it's prob taxes then, I saw a few Aus made desktop steam plants (simmilar to Mamod) that are now avalable in the uk that where at a lot more expensive in Aus as well so I dont know why things are so dear there.

Peter


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## bob ward (Jun 26, 2010)

Pete, to answer your first question first, minimum wage here is around AUD15 per hour + benefits for full time employees or AUD19 for casuals, ie no benefits. A medium skilled blue collar worker, say a welder or an auto mechanic, is probably on AUD25 to 30 + benefits. Self employed tradesman such as a carpenter are charging AUD50 to 60.

As to why machine tool prices are high here compared to US/Canada/UK, I believe that is due to the relatively small size of our market, there just isn't the volume of sales and competition between suppliers to keep prices down. Low volume stuff is always more expensive than high volume. 

As an illustration of the small market and low volume, we don't have chains of Grizzlys, Encos or Harbour Freights, there is only one National machinery supplier, a company called Hare & Forbes who run 5 large warehouses to service the whole country. No one has bothered to set up in competition to them, if someone could see a dollar in it I'm sure it would have happened some time ago. 

Distribution costs tend to be high because of the distances involved, think of 22M people living around the edges of a country the size of the US.

Government taxes, mainly a 10% GST/VAT/sales tax don't play a large part in the high prices. 

We do grit our teeth at some of the prices we have to pay, but fortunately, at least on the smaller stuff that is mailable, we can buy overseas and still land it here cheaper than local prices.


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## pete (Jun 26, 2010)

Hs93 and Bob,
Thanks for the input. Yes I can fully understand the large country/small population as Canada is larger than the U.S. yet the last population figures I can remember are we have 30 million. What saves us I guess is the close proximity to the U.S. I still import the largest majority of my tooling from the U.S. and find it cheaper than buying thru Canadian machine tool suppliers.
Somebody or Everybody in Australia is making a huge profit ripping you guys off.

Pete


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## bp (Jun 26, 2010)

Its not directly relevant, but 25 or so years ago I ran a small business importing and retailing by mail order, items of interest to free flight aeromodellers. One of the lines that I brought in was also imported by a large importer/wholesaler and was sold by them, wholesale at approximately 3 (THREE) times the cost that I was making a reasonable profit on. They threatened me with a injunction if I didn't stop trading that line.
So someone somewhere is making a lot of money out of Australia's isolation. 
Theres a lot of greedy bar stewards out there.
cheers
Bill Pudney
Adelaide, Australia


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## pete (Jun 26, 2010)

BP,
In some ways I regret starting this thread as it probably doesn't help any Australian members here to be reminded yet again of the high costs they pay.

Pete


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## Maryak (Jun 26, 2010)

Pete,

A bit of research has revealed the following:

Chinese price of lathe $US 500
China transport @ 10% = $US 550 FOB
FOW Oz = $US 1100 (SWAG)
Import duty @ 5% = $US 1155
GST(VAT) @ 10% = $US 1270
Landed price to buyer = $AU 1410
Cost + 50% for retailer = $AU 2115

Retail price of similar lathe $AU 3465

Difference = $1350 which goes to the mysterious middle men.

Interesting...............................  

Best Regards
Bob


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## T70MkIII (Jun 26, 2010)

pete  said:
			
		

> After seeing what your Sherline authorised dealer wants for this equipment and if I lived in Australia and wanted to buy this equipment then I would certainly consider trying to import it directly from Sherline. The paperwork/customs broker part is certainly a pain but who knows, The cost savings might make it well worth while. But again if the government tariffs are real high you may gain nothing.



I bought my X2 mill, mini-lathe and tooling from an Australian eBay store, saving several hundered dollars. I suspect they do exactly what you suggest. The retailers may eventually feel some pressure to lower prices as more people start buying big items through ebay, or ordering on-line directly from the US.

Bob - that just blows me away!


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## pete (Jun 26, 2010)

Bob,
Holy crap that is grossly expensive. $500 US. as of 10 min. ago is $517.35 Canadian, I can take a very enjoyable 3 hr. drive down to Grizzlys head office in Bellingham Washington, Buy a $500 US lathe for that $517.35 Canadian, Cross the border and pay the about to be introduced HST of 12%.
$517.35 X 12%= $579.43 There are no dutys to be paid for machine tools or their accesories imported between the US and Canada. Even if I was driving a huge gas hog of a truck let's say that would add $200 on top of the total.
$779.43 in Canadian funds or $865.16 in Australian at yesterdays exchange rate.
At your cost of $3465 that is roughly $3121.62 Canadian.
 MY GOD, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT YOU ACTUALLY HAD TO PAY VERSES WHAT WE DO.

Pete


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## Jadecy (Jun 26, 2010)

I never saw the figures or took the time to figure it out but I always wondered why I sell so much stuff to OZ. It makes more sense now! I thought USA taxes and prices were bad sometimes but we have it very good. I guess I better watch what I complain about!


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## Maryak (Jun 26, 2010)

Pete,

The price for a basic Seig lathe in China is AFAIK around $US100.

Best Regards
Bob


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## BAH101 (Jun 26, 2010)

When I was working out of Melbourne a couple of years ago, a co-worker was going to import an old ute back to Canada. He was going to ship it in a sea container, cost $2500 CDN. It is shipped by volumne, not weight. I think the cost to ship a helicopter was $20000 one way, it was too wide for one container flat rack so it took two container spaces and was stacked on top, so it was more expensive. 
My point is, shipping is not a big expense.
Bryan


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## Maryak (Jun 27, 2010)

BAH101  said:
			
		

> It is shipped by volumne, not weight.
> Bryan



Usually the shipping charge is by whichever is the more expensive. i.e. lead would be charged by weight as you could easily fit the payload limit in a 20ft shipping container with plenty of volume left over, a car by volume, because only one would fit in a 20ft container so in both these cases, you pay for the whole box.

My associates export a lot of wine and packing all the different sized cartons into a container is an art, to maximise the volume whilst keeping the weight within the containers payload.

Best Regards
Bob


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## tmuir (Jun 27, 2010)

Big heavy stuff like my big lathe and X2 mill I had to buy locally.
But I find its usually cheaper for me to buy 'lighter' stuff from the UK or USA and pay for the postage.
I wanted a Sherline lathe to be my middle sized lathe bewteen my watchmakers and Chinese lathe and so I ened up buying one second hand from the US and paying around $200 US to get it posted to me. Even though its second hand and I need to replace a few parts it will work out I saved myself betwen $600 and $800 OZ than buying new locally.

Sooner or later the retailers in OZ are going to have to wake up to how much they are overcharging us or they will go out of business as more and more people buy from the internet overseas.


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## hopeless (Jun 27, 2010)

Pete I have no idea what you do in the mining industry but a mate of mine has his son(pump specialist) in the mining side of things with fly in /fly out and 12 hr shifts and his pay before tax is $5k per week. My nephew is a gofor (jack of all trades master of none ) and earns 100k per year after taxs same hrs. But the thing is it seems it has nix to do with price of goods. Usually explained that we are a small population and run 240vac 50hz unlike the big market that is Nth America.
I don't worry as it only hurts when you buy the gear after that its all fun and nobody goes into business with the intent to go broke (unlike governments) so I guess they need money too
Pete


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## pete (Jun 27, 2010)

BAH101,
Sorry but while volume is the shipping cost with weight as a secondary item the containers have to be loaded so that they are at or below the legal road weight allowed in the country of delivery. (at one time I worked with containers and the trucking industry) Overall you are right tho.

Hopeless,
I also work at a fly in/out mining camp working 12 hr. shifts 2 weeks on/2 weeks off shift rotation. Gross pay before taxes, subtractions for Benifits, Unemployment insurance, Canada pension is right around $3.000 per week average. Your buddys son as a pump specialist would of course be able to command a premium price for his services as I'd guess most of his work is for under ground mines.(I work open pit).

This part I tried posting before but when I hit the post button it just dissapeared.

While I know less than nothing about starting or running a business it seems to me that from what the Aussie members have said here about costs for hobbiest type equipment, That if a person had some spare cash and a dry secure area close to one of Australias major ports. Then it would be pretty easy to under cut the few machine tool dealers you have and still make a very good profit.

Your costs from the manufacturer plus shipping and import duties are X.

Your limited storage costs, overhead, plus business taxes are Y.

Your profit margin is Z.

X+Y+Z is your selling cost. The buyer pays the shipping cost no matter where they live.

Probably a very simplistic point of view but hey it could work.

Pete


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## rcfreak177 (Jun 27, 2010)

Hello Pete,

I recently finished up working on a Rio Tinto mine site in north west Australia,
After speaking to several heavy plant operators on site I found that they are earning around 120 - 130k gross AUS$ per year. the conditions are vary average, they have to put up with severe dust(which usually contains asbestos) and also the summer heat which can top 55 degrees Celsius, I worked as a breakdown fitter fixing blast hole drill rigs, Atlas Copco and Terex machines, the average income for hd fitters is 160 - 180k Gross$ per year, both roles usually incur a 2 week on 1 week off roster. The life is tuff and can have a major impact on family life especially if the employee has small children. all aside it is a way to get financially set up and there is plenty of work around and usally room for further advancement within the mining company. We here in OZ have to pay tax on wages, then tax on top of the purchased product and then 10% general sales tax on top of all that once again. Life in Oz is expensive but I must admit it is good. The average mortgage in Perth WA will set back a person around $700 per week, food bill for 2 adults and 2 young childeren around $250 per week and petrol for a car is on average $1.40 per litre.

Regards Barry


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## pete (Jun 27, 2010)

rcfreak,
I operate most of the mobile equipment that's used in a open pit except the drills. We have Pit Vipers as the blast hole drilling equipment. The 120-130K matches up well with my wages if you figure out that they are at work about 1/3rd more than I am. Your wages appear to be a fair bit higher than ours for a drill mechanic. Your on a tough exhausting shift rotation. I have seen -45c at our mine site. The company I work for, Northgate minerals own a couple of mines in Australia.
Your morgage costs are higher than ours for sure, Alltho they would be a bit low if I lived around Vancouver B.C. Our fuel right now is about $1.05 per liter. Our sales tax is 12%. Overall it seems Australia is more expensive than Canada. Your shop tools certainly are.

Pete


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## ieezitin (Jun 27, 2010)

Dont pay too much attention to me but this is my theory.

There is to my knowledge only one really wealthy country whose riches are shared and managed by all equally.

The rest of the world is shafted by there governments to which they play a global game set up and designed to suppress the middle class.

It works by empowering the rich to keep them well! rich, by feeding the poor from the middle classes pocket to gain there vote so they keep there jobs. It is all done by taxing the middle class, rigged living and working environments, markets and industry created by the system to keep in check the majority ( middle class ).

Forget fines, levies, duties, stamps, mortgages, tolls, cost of living etc they are all rolled and summed up and expressed this way Taxes!!! And Taxes = diversion every one of you is caught up in it including me.

I am a Pipe welder here in Maryland USA. I make around $120,000 a year my income taxes run around 25%, then they take 15% from gross for Federal social security (retirement Fund) Now I have to pay my State tax 6% on my gross income annually, then there is my state sales tax ( everything purchased inside this state ) which is 6%, then there is my property taxes at around 16% based on my property value which is set by the state not the market, then I pay around 20% of my gross income for a private health care program, capital gains income is 30% with no recourse to loss.

Now compare that with what you make and pay and I guarantee you it works out the same, UK, Germany, OZ, USA, and Canada. Its done by design. The dollar, pound, Frank, euro is all equally worth nothing. The UK is usually considered to be the worlds highest taxed nation of around 52% gross income with the 17% Vat. Now do your math, if you add up my tax obligations all accept the property tax it = 72% UK = 69% strange Uh!!!? Very close, an irony considering the British wholly perfected the tax system that started in 1066 then they exported it to the USA in 1570, which in turn got there asses kicked out in 1776 because of it, then the USA needed cash in 1917 the income tax was reintroduced based on the British system.

We are paying $2.63 a gallon of gas here right now, oh!! I hear you say thats cheap, well yes it is but I have been financially raped before I filled up my tank, the tax was collected elsewhere and not put on gas. 

Now saying all that, there exists a special guild where if you take the time and surround yourself with the right people and with a little help from the tax laws, you will end up in the exempt club. 

We own a 10 acre horse boarding stables which my wife works, also I work my machine and weld shop on the side which we put through our farm services business, all my machines, shops, vehicles, land, fuel, computers, clothing is written as write offs, 30% off the top. Capital equipment is amortized over 5 years giving me a tax credit every year for 5 years. I get low mortgage rates as I am agricultural. 

I will give you a classic example, diesel is $2.95 a gallon which everyone has to pay, but! Since I own a business I can claim on my taxes this, I have a farm truck, work truck both diesel, welder is diesel, and our 50hp tractor is diesel and the farm generator. Now tax law allows me 30% off the top $2.95 = $2.07 then for every gallon purchased I get $0.60 cents Federal credit bringing it down to $1.47. All legal and written in the tax code. 

The only snag is capital gains and profit margins, but there are ways around it, as in the law allows for capital drainage. 

So remember when you purchase your next little boring bar from either your own country or abroad you are all paying the same, the tax cake maybe sliced into different thick nesses but it all tastes the same.

Wealthy men dont pay taxes, its designed that way.

As too the country I stated in my first paragraph, its Norway, they own 75% of the natural gas all supplied to the European Union with a collective population of 670 million people and there reserves head into 2080. They are a socialistic nation with all needs provided for by the state funded by its wealth, with very little corruption in the government the people live well. Not bad for doing a 35 hour mandatory work week uh!.

Money is the root of all evil and he lives a Dollar bill, pound, Yen and Euro

God bless.           Anthony.


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## mklotz (Jun 27, 2010)

Gentlemen,

I have no objection to a discussion of hourly wages in Australia but let's not let the topic drift into a politics/tax/form-of-government rant. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can have such discussions.


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## Deanofid (Jun 27, 2010)

ieezitin  said:
			
		

> Money is the root of all evil and he lives a Dollar bill, pound, Yen and Euro
> 
> God bless.           Anthony.



It isn't money that's the root of all evil. It's the _LOVE_ of money that is the root of all evil.
And, God bless you too, Anthony!  ;D

Dean


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## ieezitin (Jun 27, 2010)

Dean.

Agreed! . I thank you for pointing that out.  :bow:

Anthony.


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## Artie (Jun 27, 2010)

and just a little bit back towards the topic... 

Bob Ward's summation and figures were pretty spot on in my opinion.... and example is the QCTP I just purchased... a complete unit from overseas (tool holders inc) was just over $400, at Hare and Forbes (Aus) for the same unit, over $700. Both were chinese made and I eventually got my tool post from the states at $85 landed here, sad that it travelled from China, (not far from here) to the States and back here at half the price I could buy it locally.

I put it down to over 330,000,000 people making the buying power much greater as we are 'only' just over 22,000 000.

Having said that, I wouldnt give up this lifestyle for anything. We are in the depths of winter and Ive just returned from golf (yes Monday morning) and yes I do have a full time job.... ;D


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## Artie (Jun 27, 2010)

just had a thought.... painfull... :'(....

Its really only in fairly recent years that items have become quite accessible (and comparitively cheap!!)... not that many years ago when I was involved in the Off Road racing scene we had to pay enormous money and wait weeks and weeks for performance items...

This is what bought about my entry into casting aluminium and the lathe etc... I believe New Zealand was even worse... this also created some amazing people and achievers... google up Britton Motorcycles and Burt Munro of the worlds fastest indian fame, these guys are just a few examples of what we 'have had to do'..... :

Actually Ill do it for you.... Burt... http://www.indianmotorbikes.com/features/munro/munro.htm

And John Britten.... http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2008/01/britten-v1000-greatest-motorcycle-ever.html

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM_aNwaodd4[/ame]


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## pete (Jun 27, 2010)

Artie,
I knew nothing about that guy or bike before I watched that. That is a hell of an accomplishment. Just shows that it's still possible for the little guy to compete and win against the factorys megabuck team efforts. I'd love to meet him. The prices charged over there for a Chinese QC system is astronomical. I don't know how your tool dealers can sleep at night.

Pete


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## Thad Swarfburn III (Jun 28, 2010)

pete  said:
			
		

> Artie,
> I knew nothing about that guy or bike before I watched that.
> ...
> I'd love to meet him.



Sadly, John Britten died of cancer in '95. He's a bit of a local legend round here, and some of the best machinists in the area used to work with him. Some of them still have mixed feelings about those times - he expected 110% of people, and paid somewhat less . What he achieved is still amazing.

Burt Munro was another legend, and y'all should see "The World's Fastest Indian" - Anthony Hopkins does a reasonable NZ accent. Burt would cast his own pistons and machine them on his Myford.

The world needs more of these people!

Back on topic, I can sympathise with our Aussie cousins. Stuff is expensive here. I used to work in the hobby industry, and you can buy a major brand of model airplane motor from a dealer in the US and get it landed here for less than our store was PAYING for it. Don't be so quick to blame the retailers - most operate as tight as they can margin-wise. 

I'm learning to scrounge and be patient when I want stuff.


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## doubletop (Jun 28, 2010)

Back on the subject of what stuff costs, but still on the subject of NZ, I get most of my fittings from the UK (OK I should make them myself you say). 

I'm also on the lookout for a Vertex 4" rotary table, until today when the importer got in touch with me the best price I could get was from the UK GBP109 plus GBP60 for shipping to NZ. Take off the VAT add on the GST and convert at today's rate = NZ$365. The importer has now given me a price of NZ$363 inc GST and shipping. Forget any of that green miles stuff, it was very nearly ordered from the UK.

BTW I walk past the place where the Britten bike is on show on my way to work every day and I've lost count of the times I've watched the Worlds Fasted Indian.

Another bloke in sheds.......

Pete


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## Artie (Jun 28, 2010)

I think its important to make the point that successful New Zealanders are pretty near Australian, in fact so much so that we cheerfully claim them as ours... when they 'stuff up' of course ..they revert to 'bloody kiwis'..... ;D


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## tel (Jun 28, 2010)

doubletop  said:
			
		

> I'm also on the lookout for a Vertex 4" rotary table, until today when the importer got in touch with me the best price I could get was from the UK GBP109 plus GBP60 for shipping to NZ. Take off the VAT add on the GST and convert at today's rate = NZ$365. The importer has now given me a price of NZ$363 inc GST and shipping. Forget any of that green miles stuff, it was very nearly ordered from the UK.
> 
> Pete



Sounds about right - $330.00au from Minitech (including GST)

Artie - Wal Footrot did wonders for their image.


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## pete (Jun 28, 2010)

I have watched "The Worlds Fastest Indian" A very good movie but I certainly thought the director should have spent a bit more time on the shop part but then again a lot of people would find that boring.

Sad to learn that a guy of John Britten's talent is no longer with us. For what he was trying to accomplish and suceeded at, I don't think anything less than a 110% effort would have got the job done. But if your expect and demand that, Then you better be able to pay what that talent is worth. 

Pete


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## doubletop (Jun 29, 2010)

Artie  said:
			
		

> I think its important to make the point that successful New Zealanders are pretty near Australian, in fact so much so that we cheerfully claim them as ours... when they 'stuff up' of course ..they revert to 'bloody kiwis'..... ;D



.............at this point the exchange would tend to move into the realms of debating ownership of Pavlova, Phar Lap and Russell Crowe, (although you guys are welcome to keep him). I now also hear that after our relative success at the World Cup the NZ soccer team has now come the "Australasian" soccer team. However, we do have to look after our Australian cousins, after all who's going to come to our aid since the labour government mothballed our fighter force (OK it was only six aging Skyhawks)
_
Before the moderator steps in, and for everybody else's benefit, this light hearted banter goes on all the time. But unfortunately I'm a Pom so it all goes right over my head._

P.S. I understand Phar Lap is about to make a return trip to the West Island. We'd like him back when you are done.........

Pete


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## doubletop (Jun 29, 2010)

tel  said:
			
		

> Sounds about right - $330.00au from Minitech (including GST)



Back to things engineering........

Tel

Thanks for the confirmation of the Oz price, you feel a bit more comfortable when you know you are in the right ball park The 'other' supplier in NZ wants $438 (inc GST) plus shipping, so you can see why I looked at getting it from the UK

Pete


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## tmuir (Jun 30, 2010)

doubletop  said:
			
		

> Thanks for the confirmation of the Oz price, you feel a bit more comfortable when you know you are in the right ball park The 'other' supplier in NZ wants $438 (inc GST) plus shipping, so you can see why I looked at getting it from the UK
> 
> Pete



If you ever want to know what it goes for in OZ this is the place to look.
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/

Yes there are other suppliers but this is the biggest.


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## doubletop (Jul 1, 2010)

I have come to the conclusion that Machinery House aren't as cheap as they could be. It was Machinery House NZ who are asking NZ$390 ext GST whereas the Oz price is AU$299 or NZ$370 at today's rate.

I'm OK with the NZ price I've now been offered (NZ$305) but would prefer the price in the UK which is equivalent to NZ$237

Which goes to support the point of this thread, are we being ripped off or not?

Pete


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## tel (Jul 1, 2010)

Well, the prices we have to pay have certainly been boosted, to put it politely. US prices are much better (when the exchange rate is favourable) but the postage from the US to Oz verges on the outrageous in many cases. UK prices are somewhat higher, but the postage is usually more realistic.

In either case, unless the exchange rate is very good, the bit of difference with items like these is hardly worth the bother.


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