# Tool chest materials



## kd0afk

I want to build my first Gerstner style tool chest but i don't have a planer or table saw or jointer. I do however have a router and finger joint/dovetail jig, Japanese pull saws and hand planes.
I have no way to take rough stock down to thickness but I had the idea to use finished flooring. It comes in several thicknesses and sometimes is even coated for anti-scuff. I think with the tools I have, I can make a pretty nice chest.
The question is what wood to use. I was thinking bamboo. I'ts pretty popular and very strong. The only fishing poles stronger than bamboo is carbon fiber. Any views on using it? I know this is a metal forum but I think this is relevant.


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## sssfox

kd0afk,

I built a house a couple of years ago and it has bamboo floors.
I read all about the advantages of using solid bamboo and have to say that I am disappointed with it.  It dents about as easy as pine or maybe cherry.

It may work fine for a toolbox, just don't bang it around.  I won't install it for a floor again.  Maybe some varieties are stronger than others.  I have to say for as fast as it grows, it is quite a marvel and expect to see a lot more of it.

Steve Fox


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## Walsheng

My wife had one made for me for our 30th anniversary and it is made from red oak with ash for the drawers and steel for the bottoms.  That was 9 years ago and it is holding up very well.  I also have some Gerstner oak boxes, some of them well over 50 years old, and they stand up very well.
I just realized I don't have a picture of it but do have a picture of the Solidworks model I made to design it.

John


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## Tin Falcon

KD take a look here this design uses off the shelf  boards from Lowes. oak cherry whatever.    

http://images.lowes.com/animate/ToolChest.pdf

I have been considering a build for years. and I have an old oak dresser that could donate the wood.   
I have a pre ww2 union chest a travers import chest a damark box I had to fix more than one and ended up buying a harbor freight box. the problem is if you look at the plans above and the cost of the lumber it add up fast then added finishing supplies etc. so material cost could be two or three times the cost of a HF box. ($60 USD w /coupon)  
Not saying you should not build one just count the cost before you start. 


tin


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## pgp001

My dad told me many years ago that Oak is the best wood for promoting rust in your toolbox, and never to use it for that purpose.

Looks like he was right if you read this :-

http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/corrosion_of_metals_by_wood.pdf

Phil


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## Walsheng

pgp001 said:


> My dad told me many years ago that Oak is the best wood for promoting rust in your toolbox, and never to use it for that purpose.
> 
> Looks like he was right if you read this :-
> 
> http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/corrosion_of_metals_by_wood.pdf
> 
> Phil



I didn't read through the whole thing but are they talking about unsealed wood?  Because I have 6 oak Gerstner and one custom oak tool box, all full of tools, some of them for 60+ years, and no rust problems.  They are all in different settings also. Two in the living room, two at the office, three in the cellar (in a furnace room, very dry) and have never had a rust problem.
I do however have a problem in that I have way too tools and tool boxes!
Oh crap, just remembered, one more on the unheated porch.
There has got to be a ten step program for this.

John


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## kd0afk

Walsheng said:


> I didn't read through the whole thing but are they talking about unsealed wood?  Because I have 6 oak Gerstner and one custom oak tool box, all full of tools, some of them for 60+ years, and no rust problems.  They are all in different settings also. Two in the living room, two at the office, three in the cellar (in a furnace room, very dry) and have never had a rust problem.
> I do however have a problem in that I have way too tools and tool boxes!
> Oh crap, just remembered, one more on the unheated porch.
> There has got to be a ten step program for this.
> 
> John



There is a 12 step program. First step;send me one of them. lol 
I've never heard of oak making tools rust.


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## kd0afk

Walsheng said:


> My wife had one made for me for our 30th anniversary and it is made from red oak with ash for the drawers and steel for the bottoms.  That was 9 years ago and it is holding up very well.  I also have some Gerstner oak boxes, some of them well over 50 years old, and they stand up very well.
> I just realized I don't have a picture of it but do have a picture of the Solidworks model I made to design it.
> 
> John



Do you still have the solidworks file?


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## Walsheng

kd0afk said:


> Do you still have the solidworks file?



Yes I do. I just opened it up after I don't know how many years and there are a bunch of errors. It's also a very large box, 35" long and 22" high.
If you are interested I will send you a para-solid or a step file.

John


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## kd0afk

Walsheng said:


> Yes I do. I just opened it up after I don't know how many years and there are a bunch of errors. It's also a very large box, 35" long and 22" high.
> If you are interested I will send you a para-solid or a step file.
> 
> John



I'll take it.


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## kd0afk

By the way, traditionally what is that tall thin drawer in the middle used for?


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## sssfox

Machinery's Handbook in the ones I've seen.


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## Walsheng

kd0afk said:


> I'll take it.



PM me your e-mail address and I will send it to you.

John


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## Chriske

Walsheng said:


> I didn't read through the whole thing but are they talking about unsealed wood?  Because I have 6 oak Gerstner and one custom oak tool box, all full of tools, some of them for 60+ years, and no rust problems.  They are all in different settings also. Two in the living room, two at the office, three in the cellar (in a furnace room, very dry) and have never had a rust problem.
> I do however have a problem in that I have way too tools and tool boxes!
> Oh crap, just remembered, one more on the unheated porch.
> There has got to be a ten step program for this.
> 
> John




And what's more, most of the tools we use are moderately oiled by using them.  So were is the problem...?


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## Rivergypsy

I've got one oak, and one mahogany here, with felt lined drawers, and no rusting problems in 25 years...


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## Mbusha

I like your idea for building your tool box and certainly would not let the lack of power tools discourage your build. The tools described will more than do the job. The dove tail jig is nice simply because of the number of joints required. For a simple box it's easier to layout and cut dove tails by hand. However for your project they will be blind and many. 

I have never tried building anything from bamboo flooring although I installed this as a kitchen floor a couple of years ago. It's very hard stuff and I have not experience the dents mentioned in the other post. I suspect the quality of this product might vary greatly by manufacturer. I still have the scraps from the project and might use your idea to build something. 

I do already own a Gerstner Walnut box which I have used for 30 years or so. It's for my precision tools and has always worked wonderfully. Good tools deserve a good home. 

Good luck with your project, keep us up to date.

--Mark


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## Charles Lamont

kd0afk said:


> I do however have a router and finger joint/dovetail jig, Japanese pull saws and hand planes.
> I have no way to take rough stock down to thickness but I had the idea to use finished flooring


You have got all you need (assuming you can sharpen the planes)! If you want to learn woodwork, many would say you should start by learning how to do it with hand tools and only move on to power tools when you have got the hang of hand methods. Actually you would also need a pair of 'winding sticks' to place at each end of a board to sight through to remove any twist, and a pencil so you can mark the board and find low spots.


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## MachineTom

50+ years ago, my dad brought home a bunch of oak dresser drawers. He knocked them apart and used the parts to build himself an Oak tool chest. Which is one of my favorite pieces from my Dads life, as I remember watching him make the chest. Still has his tools inside.

Felt is used to keep the tools from the acid in the oak wood, or so the story is.


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## ZipSnipe

Heres one I made few years ago, I also made another toolbox not pictured that went on top of the riser. Used what ever I could find , mostly oak. But I have a planer and that made a world of difference putting it all together. Used no plans , just looked at some Gerstner boxes , seen what I liked and copied it.


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## Omnimill

From a woodworking lesson:

_Question: Explain why European oak is not normally joined together with iron and steel fittings?

Answers: Because of it's tannic acid content it can corrode iron and steel fittings._

These of course are fittings either in, or in contact with the wood. Brass fittings are normally used instead I believe.
Must admit I've not actually seen Oak used for tool chests.


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## Mosey

Oak, white or red or the numerous other varieties have been used successfully for tool storage for hundreds of years. The base model Gerstner chest is oak and is a classic choice with no problem of rust for fine tools, mine is 50 years old. I don't know what European oak is. I personally prefer quarter-sawn white oak  for that lovely medulary-ray flaky grain, tawny color, and mellows-with age warmth. You might put some mothballs in your chest, which will gaurantee no rust.
Iron and steel fasteners for cabinets when you can use brass? Nails? Rust? Ugh. Maybe nickel-plated steel. 
Mosey


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## Omnimill

There is a very nice book called "The Toolbox Book" which has some very nice examples of machinists chests in it. Almost none of them are made of Oak surprisingly! Ok, I found one in there, but the rest are made of Cherry, Maple and even Pecan. Lots of nice pictures for inspiration. Author is Jim Tolpin if you want to have a look.


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## Mosey

Thanks for the reference.
That is because in the old school, oak is a cruder material if you will, than the fruit woods, which are preferred for casework. Oak was traditionally used for doors, floors, stairs, etc., but rust? no.
Mosey


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## Walsheng

Gerstner & Sons have been making oak tool boxes for machinists for 106 years in the US.  Maybe European oak is different than American white and red oak but absolutely no issue with American oak and rusting.

John


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## kd0afk

Omnimill said:


> There is a very nice book called "The Toolbox Book" which has some very nice examples of machinists chests in it. Almost none of them are made of Oak surprisingly! Ok, I found one in there, but the rest are made of Cherry, Maple and even Pecan. Lots of nice pictures for inspiration. Author is Jim Tolpin if you want to have a look.


I used to own that book. Built a fine rolling tool chest for my woodworking tools before they were all stolen. Remember, putting your tools on wheels means that they can roll away.


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## Tin Falcon

Like others have said . American  Machinists chests are commonly made from Oak . Gershner Union and probably some other brands as well as shop made ones. 

I can not and will not deny the fact that oak contains tanic acid , tanic acid like any other acid is corrosive. But there are other factors to consider.  for one the drawer bottoms of the chests I have seen are not oak. they may be sheet metal Masonite plywood etc. 
also the drawers are lined with felt. 

I cannot say tools in a wood box will not corrode. but in my experience any corrosion is minor not a little attention and oil will not deal with and no different from storing tools in a Kennedy tool chest. Except the wood looks soooo much nicer. 
Tin


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## Mosey

Tin says it all!
Mosey:wall:


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## Wizard69

sssfox said:


> Machinery's Handbook in the ones I've seen.



Pretty amazing that toolbox design has evolved around a book.


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## Wizard69

For you casting fans out there, has anybody attempted to cast a set of drawers for a tool box?    I know the thin walls would be a challenge and may be impossible in a home foundry for the larger drawers seen in tool boxes but the idea of a one piece cast aluminum drawer facinates me for some reason.  

The idea would be to face the front and line the drawers just like one would do with wood.   Seems like sand casting would be possible but a hard mold for a poured casting might give better results.


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## kd0afk

Just cast the drawers solid and machine out the cavity. Wood fronts of course but the drawers would be aluminum. You could even program in your tools so that they would fit perfectly. If a drawer isn't filled with tools the unfilled part would be solid and worked as you get new tools.


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## Tin Falcon

if casting was a feasible method of making a tool box it would have been done by now. 
boxes are made from blow molded plastic great for production but not for home. gingerly publications has a book on making one out of aluminum sheet. 






Tin


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## kd0afk

Wish I had a brake and a shear. I'm still on a specific mission right now and those tools aren't in the plan but as I think in the next few months I might get that three in one tool from grizzly. I mean if a person is good with a spot welder and sheet metal tools, there isn't any reason why they can't make a chest as good or better than a Kennedy. Am I right or is there something special about them?



Tin Falcon said:


> if casting was a feasible method of making a tool box it would have been done by now.
> boxes are made from blow molded plastic great for production but not for home. gingerly publications has a book on making one out of aluminum sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tin


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## Wizard69

kd0afk said:


> Wish I had a brake and a shear. I'm still on a specific mission right now and those tools aren't in the plan but as I think in the next few months I might get that three in one tool from grizzly. I mean if a person is good with a spot welder and sheet metal tools, there isn't any reason why they can't make a chest as good or better than a Kennedy. Am I right or is there something special about them?



If you have the tools and the skill you can make a far better sheet metal tool box.  The only thing special about the purchased ones is the slides or runners.    Finding something suitable to replace them might take some effort.  

There would also be some design effort involved to get everything to fit up nicely.  A toolbox like a Kennedy probably isn't a beginners task.


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## Wizard69

kd0afk said:


> Just cast the drawers solid and machine out the cavity. Wood fronts of course but the drawers would be aluminum. You could even program in your tools so that they would fit perfectly. If a drawer isn't filled with tools the unfilled part would be solid and worked as you get new tools.



That would work if I had a suitable mill.   Right now I don't (which frustrates me significantly). 

25 years or so ago I worked in the die cast industry so I have some idea of what can be archived that way.    Manually poured Aluminum is another thing though.  I've had guys say though that relatively thin walls are possible.   Its an idea I will have to put to rest for awhile.  The house needs a roof and similar things.


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## robcas631

I'd like to know if there is a poor mans way of creating boards from logs?


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## aarggh

robcas631 said:


> I'd like to know if there is a poor mans way of creating boards from logs?


 
Difficult to get a good result unless you have some experience with cutting, drying and seasoning timbers. Done properly can take some time, it's a long haul effort. You need to cut out any heart, then cut according to the grain for the desired boards, seal the ends, and stack with spacers so it gets air flow, but dries slowly to stop checking. Doable, but you need to think a couple years ahead.

cheers, Ian


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## rodw

robcas631 said:


> I'd like to know if there is a poor mans way of creating boards from logs?



Ages ago I saw a portable saw mill at a field days that did the cutting with a chainsaw. The saw was held in a jig that rolled along rails. Dunno if that gives you an idea to fab something up.


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## Tin Falcon

yes it is called a hand saw and hand plane the way it was done in years past and still done in third world counties. 
Or research the old popular mechanics and make one. 
or hit lots of yard sales My table saw cost me $25 cheaper than I could make one. 
Tin


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## rodw

Tin Falcon said:


> yes it is called a hand saw and hand plane the way it was done in years past and still done in third world counties.
> Or research the old popular mechanics and make one.
> or hit lots of yard sales My table saw cost me $25 cheaper than I could make one.
> Tin



Googling "portable chainsaw sawmill plans" returns quite a few ideas. Some sawmills might do it for you if you ask nicely.


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## hblair

There are only a few pleasures in life better than building your own Gerstner style, quarter sawn White Oak took box.  I've built several.
As far as tools rusting, NOT A PROBLEM.  White oak when dried has about 2% moisture content.   On top of that you are going to seal it with a oil finish.
If you are going to stool any tool in damp environment, such as a basement, I suggest that you invest in a good dehumidifier.


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## Walsheng

hblair:  Nice job on the toolbox but where is the Machinery Handbook drawer?

John


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## Mosey

hblair said:


> There are only a few pleasures in life better than building your own Gerstner style, quarter sawn White Oak took box.  I've built several.
> As far as tools rusting, NOT A PROBLEM.  White oak when dried has about 2% moisture content.   On top of that you are going to seal it with a oil finish.
> If you are going to stool any tool in damp environment, such as a basement, I suggest that you invest in a good dehumidifier.


I hope you can hear me clapping at your fine work.
Mosey


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## thayer

As for milling your own lumber, take a look at Mathias Wandel's web site for some inspiration. Here is the page featuring his shop-made 14-inch bandsaw designed for resawing logs. Detailed description and videos, in addition to plans you can purchase for a reasonable price.

http://woodgears.ca/bandmill/index.html

Thayer


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## hblair

This box was for my son.  He doesn't know Machinery's Handbook from Adam.
Actually, I thought about this when I was designing my first toolbox.  I broke from Gerstner's design in this regard as I wanted the space for tools.


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## Tin Falcon

but the Machieries handbook is a very important tool. just not made of metal and hard to get an accurate measurement with it.
Tin


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## Tin Falcon

> Pretty amazing that toolbox design has evolved around a book.


The tool box evolved around the tools. The MH is one tool that should be in every machinist toolbox. In the home shop a shelf nearby is an option. In a pro shop in the box is better as is deters it being borrowed if the box is locked when not in use. 
The smaller apprentice boxes the MH fits in the till. 
Tin


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## barnesrickw

rodw said:


> Ages ago I saw a portable saw mill at a field days that did the cutting with a chainsaw. The saw was held in a jig that rolled along rails. Dunno if that gives you an idea to fab something up.




There is, by splitting in to small pieces with a maul, then to boards with a froe.  But it's a lot of work.  Another way is to use a decent, large bandsaw and a sled that will hold a small log.  Again a lot of work, but you can usually find the small logs for cheap, or free.  


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## matthew-s

hblair said:


> There are only a few pleasures in life better than building your own Gerstner style, quarter sawn White Oak took box.  I've built several.
> As far as tools rusting, NOT A PROBLEM.  White oak when dried has about 2% moisture content.   On top of that you are going to seal it with a oil finish.
> If you are going to stool any tool in damp environment, such as a basement, I suggest that you invest in a good dehumidifier.



Very nice.  I starting the planning necessary to build one, but then ended up needing to move the family, so all projects have been on hold for a year.

I'm curious - did you use finger joints on the bottom?  I did a trial run at finger joints making a toybox for my son, and it was not easy - I don't think my jig was rigid enough to make everything perfectly repeatable.


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## Mosey

I believe that the moisture content of your wood cabinet or anything else you have will be determined by that of the space in which it is kept. I think someone said something here about taking his wood down to 2% moisture content. Horsepucky! I don't think so.
As for oak promoting rust? More expletive. My Gerstner is 65 years old, and full of Starrett and other steel tools, no rust whatsoever.
If you don't want any oak chests, send them over, I'll pay the freight.
Mosey


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## barnesrickw

Unfinished red oak in contact with some steels will cause rust.  When working with it in my old employer's cabinet shop, you did not want to leave soft steel like nails on the unfinished veneer.  It would leave blue streaks on the oak as it oxidized the steel.  


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## barnesrickw

In Michigan, you can get kiln dried lumber to 6%. If you live by the lake, it will be 12% in the summer, 4% in the winter.  Just have to build accordingly.  A table I built recently has shown 1/2 inch shrinkage over 32" of walnut top.  Lumber was air dried a very long ago (60 years) by my grandfather in Central Ohio.  I built it in the summer.  My mother placed it over the forced air heater vent.  Breadboard ends were flush.  1/4 inch gap each side now.  


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