# fire brick (or whatever its called)



## petertha (May 9, 2015)

When I see pictures of people silver soldering or torch heating tool steel for hardening etc, they typically do it on a whitish brick looking material to keep the heat confined & protect the bench. What exactly is that material & where would I typically find it? (Canada). Ideally Id like to buy a few blocks or tiles so I can orient them in different arrangements like the open corner box concept. I saw this (attached pic) at Home Depot but I'm not sure if its meant as cosmetic 'fire proof' material vs. what I should be using.

I just made my first cutting tool from oil hardening tool steel (woo-hoo!). It is small mass material from 0.25" rod stock & only needed the tip hardened so used my propane torch & held stock in flame with vice grips. Seemed to work well but I could tell already it was losing heat & taking longer than it should. I know one day I'm going to have to bite the bullet on an oxy-torch system of some sort. But the test part came out pretty nice so I'm all pumped up about this new found capability. Time to take it to the next level!


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## toolznthings (May 9, 2015)

Hello,

Do a search for : silica insulation  up to  2000 degrees
                            rigid ceramic insulation  2000 degrees
                            rigid calcium insulation  1200 - 1700 degrees

McMaster has it ,but not sure if they are available in your location. 

Brian


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## poway_bob (May 9, 2015)

Hi,
They're used to line fireplaces. Find a masonry contractor in your area. He'll probably give you a couple of them.

Good luck,
Bob


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## wheeltapper (May 9, 2015)

the stuff that lines fireplaces absorbs heat, you want something to reflect heat.

perlite or white building brick.


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## canadianhorsepower (May 9, 2015)

wheeltapper said:


> the stuff that lines fireplaces absorbs heat, you want something to reflect heat.
> 
> perlite or white building brick.



thats wrong information look at this page bottom

Chemical Composition of Dense Firebrick  23% Al grade
Alumina : 23%
Silica : 73%
Ferric Oxide : 1.4%
Accessory Oxides : 1.1%
Titania : 1%
Fused Frits (ceramic composition/s)
Mass densities, weights of volumes and vise-verse, for various types of heat resistant materials can be easily calculated with refractory material calculators.
Who is your fire brick or refractory supplier, do you have contact-s on them and where are you located? Have you noticed chipped or seconds fire bricks being sold for better price somewhere? Please leave your comments for others below
Names for fire bricks may vary
Fire bricks nay be called by various definitions. It depends on who works with them, names them too. Yes various entities  one more special than the other 
Out of my head right now: 
fire brick = fire-clay brick = refractory brick = chamotte brick = fireplace brick = heat resistant brick = chimney brick = dense/heavy kiln brick (for building kilns) = industrial ceramic brick (heavy).


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## tornitore45 (May 9, 2015)

Whatever you buy make sure that is the light type. If it weight like a conventional brick or more is not the type you want.
Search for places that do ceramic craft and places that sell kilns.

The heavy type is structural and while is fire proof is also conductive of heat.

The light brick are very porous, they are made with saw dust which is burned off when fired.


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## Swifty (May 9, 2015)

I use a couple of pieces of white lightweight building brick, often called Hebel bricks. Although their fairly thick, they do a great job. You will notice a big difference when heating parts on the bricks, the heat is kept in, I just use a Mapp torch and gas, no problem heat treating 16mm dia silver steel.

Paul.


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## deverett (May 9, 2015)

There was a post - I think it was on this forum but can't find it now - where a guy was heat treating small tools in a small home made oven just large enough to put the tool in.

The sides/top/bottom of the oven were made from vermiculite, which is an insulation material and available in quite thin (1" thick) pieces.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## canadianhorsepower (May 9, 2015)

deverett said:


> There was a post - I think it was on this forum but can't find it now - where a guy was heat treating small tools in a small home made oven just large enough to put the tool in.
> 
> The sides/top/bottom of the oven were made from vermiculite, which is an insulation material and available in quite thin (1" thick) pieces.
> 
> ...



Dave,
you are wright but I cant' find it

cheers
Luc


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## canadianhorsepower (May 9, 2015)

petertha said:


> 'fire proof' material vs. what I should be using.
> 
> about this new found capability. Time to take it to the next level!



This is what you want

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23743&page=2


cheers
Luc


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## portlandron (May 9, 2015)

Check out a good Pottery Supply store. I found some there used in kilns.


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## deverett (May 10, 2015)

canadianhorsepower said:


> This is what you want
> 
> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23743&page=2
> 
> ...



Like your perseverance, Luc!

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## petertha (May 10, 2015)

canadianhorsepower said:


> This is what you want
> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23743&page=2
> cheers
> Luc


 
Thanks Luc. Assume you mean these bricks (pic)? Unless I missed it, he shows them in use but doesn't specify what they are.

He talks about his refractory mix, but I think that's for pouring the slurry in the annulus of burner pot (_The refractory mix is 1 part Fire Cement to 4 parts Perlite straight off the Myfordboy blog. I&#8217;ve seen web pages swearing that Portland cement/ Perlite/Fire Clay as the way to go but I&#8217;ve also seen too many pictures of catastrophic failures of that mix...)_


The potter/kiln suggestion might be worth a try. I found this product, think there is a ceramics type supplier in my neck of the wood.
http://www.psh.ca/index.php?item_id=R23IT

The 'K23' trafedname led me to this information
http://www.traditionaloven.com/articles/81/insulating-fire-bricks
http://www.traditionaloven.com/articles/84/firebricks-heavy-dense-fire-clay-bricks


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## canadianhorsepower (May 10, 2015)

petertha said:


> Thanks Luc. Assume you mean these bricks (pic)? Unless I missed it, he shows them in use but doesn't specify what they are.
> 
> He talks about his refractory mix, but I think that's for pouring the slurry in the annulus of burner pot (_The refractory mix is 1 part Fire Cement to 4 parts Perlite straight off the Myfordboy blog. Ive seen web pages swearing that Portland cement/ Perlite/Fire Clay as the way to go but Ive also seen too many pictures of catastrophic failures of that mix...)_
> 
> ...




yes it is refractory brick check bottom of post #5 you will see many 
other names for it. It's what you find in a fire place.

It's easy to get in Canada They are fabricated at
Canadian Refractory
one hour from Ottawa Ontario

cheers
Luc


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## Dave Sohlstrom (May 10, 2015)

You are looking for insulating fire brick. Here is one possable source in Canada

http://www.stellarcanadainc.com/products-services/bnz-insulating-firebrick

http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/Bricks-Refractory-Mortar-and-Kaowool-s/352.htm

Dave


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## petertha (May 10, 2015)

Good score Dave. I'm confident there must be ceramic/pottery places like this in my area & hopefully they will carry same. Dirt cheap actually.


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## petertha (May 10, 2015)

I think half the problem is generic terminology. Thanks to links you all provided, at least now I have line of site as to what I want. 

I hadn't realized what a serious bunch the wood fired backyard flatbread & pizza oven builders guild were 
http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/brick_primer.html


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## gmac (May 11, 2015)

Peter;
I went looking for the light weight white stuff (technical term) but locally could only find this - tan colored heavier stuff (more technical terms);

http://www.homehardware.ca/en/cat/search/_/N-2pqfZ67l/Ne-67n/Ntk-All_EN?Ntt=fire+brick

Garry


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## Dave Sohlstrom (May 11, 2015)

Garry

The white light stuff is Insulating fire brick. The heavier stuff if Fire brick. Fire brick is use to build fire places in homes. Insulating fire brick is used to build kiln and high temp furnaces. If you can find a pottery supply store that sells clay and tools to potters they will have insulating fire brick or know a source for it.

Dave


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## gmac (May 11, 2015)

Thanks Dave!!

Cheers Garry


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## petertha (May 17, 2015)

I am happy to report I found what I was looking for at a local ceramics supply place. 
http://www.ceramicscanada.net/

I think what I got was the 70% alumina for ~9$/brick. They were kind of fuzzy on spec sheet, but did mention metal heads request this for making forges etc.
http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/LVA70-70-ALUMINA-STRAIGHTS-2-5-p/lva70.htm

Its very light density. Apparently you can cut the stuff with hacksaw blade, so I might try that just to see. I was thinking of making a U channel in one brick & position a plain brick on top as a roof as a simple 2-brick configuration to heat small stuff like drill rod tools. Anyway I'll give it a shot & report back. Thanks for the links & info.


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## deverett (May 18, 2015)

petertha said:


> I am happy to report I found what I was looking for at a local ceramics supply place.
> http://www.ceramicscanada.net/
> 
> I think what I got was the 70% alumina for ~9$/brick. They were kind of fuzzy on spec sheet, but did mention metal heads request this for making forges etc.
> ...



I've found that over time (several years) that these type of bricks crack and I end up with several small pieces.  Not really a problem in small quantities because the bits can be used to support the object being soldered/brazed off the hearth floor.  Another use for the bits is pack round/in the parts being brazed to reflect the heat back to the metal.  Especially useful where copper or brass is involved.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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