# Seig Mill



## barnesrickw (Dec 17, 2013)

Is there any difference between the Seig Mills sold under many names?


----------



## Shawn (Dec 17, 2013)

You bet there is, they look similar but that's where it ends. The casting may all come from one or two factories but each company pays for a certain level of quality control and specifies what parts are to be used. In my humble opinion from reading and researching these mills as well as being an owner...the harbour freight mills are at the lower end of the quality scale with the Little Machine Shop mills being at the top. My mill has a column that can be rotated which adds to its lack of rigidity, I will most certainly never use this feature so I would go with a rigid column if I were to buy one again. Any of these mills can be made to do good work it just depends on how much work you want to do on them. 

Shawn


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 17, 2013)

Rick :

This is a subject that had been knocked around a few times. 
first of all there are several models of seig mill typically nano , x1 or micro, x2 mini and x3. 

The super x2 or the high torque as LMS calls i is an improved variant. Bigger motor etc. Miro mark on the east coast also sell there premium x-2.

A far As I know SIEG is the manufacturer but machines are made to various distributor specification or no secs at all. 
The better brand names have paid qc people that work at the factory to pick out the best machines for there employer. Jet and grizzly do this others may as well. It is my understanding that Harbor freight gets what is leftover. 

The other thing you get from better brands is a warranty and parts an technical service.

Buy a mill from grizzly and others have a problem and they will likely send a part to replace a broken one while under warranty. 

Have a problem with HF and they replace the whole thing assuming you purchased extended warranty and they still offer the item for sale. 

Pay attention to the details when you shop. is the spindle R-8 or MT 3 R-8 is an actual mill taper and easier to tool. the new machines have metal gears instead of plastic ones. 

So while an x-2 is an x-2 there are variations on the thems. so buyer beware.
Tin


----------



## barnesrickw (Dec 17, 2013)

You guys are a fantastic well of information.  Thank you


----------



## Wizard69 (Dec 18, 2013)

barnesrickw said:


> You guys are a fantastic well of information.  Thank you




If you really want to know about what options are available from Seig, checkout their web site: http://www.siegind.com/.   They literally list 22 different milling machines and that is before you even consider the CNC variants. 

As to quality control, honestly it isn't that great no matter who you buy from.   The feature set might vary from vendor to vendor and frankly this is something you want to focus on.   For example prefer the machines that come with R8 tapers or other milling machine tapers.  In any event if you read the forums you will see that many suppliers in the US have had faulty machines get into the publics hands.   The key really here is going with a supplier that is known to properly support the hardware.   That doesn't mean just the big name vendors either.   

It has been awhile since I've visited Seigs web site, they have expanded their offerings significantly, especially their lathes.   I'd expect that these will soon be imported by somebody.


----------



## oxotnik (Dec 22, 2013)

I've been running a stock SU1 for about a year.  So far so good.... 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-QOagPdLhA[/ame]


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 22, 2013)

How do you like the universal mill seems limited on the  Z axis . Probably ok for milling but not good for drilling. 
Tin


----------



## oxotnik (Dec 23, 2013)

Tin Falcon said:


> How do you like the universal mill seems limited on the  Z axis . Probably ok for milling but not good for drilling.
> Tin



I love the little SU1.  Small and sturdy, weighing in at about 200lb for such a small machine; machines mild steel with ease; cuts aluminum or copper like butter.  

It mills, slits, bores, and turns. Yes it takes a 80mm or 100mm lathe chuck (same as on C2/C3) with a MT3 shank, and essentially functions as an ultra-sturdy short-way lathe with a very large array of tooling laid out on the mill table (CNC possibility is just endless).  

The odd U1 started out as a home-grown-project by an individual on a watchmaker forum.  Here is the initial appearance of the fore-runner of the U1:

















And the original thread from 2005 for additional historial refrence : http://www.watchstore.com.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardid=1&Id=1763001

SIEG then took it and made it into the U1/SU1.  

Here's my SU1 cutting 2024 aluminum alloy with a 16mm endmill: 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN3Y3Nm5jtg[/ame]

Regarding the oft-noted concern with Z-axis space, simply opt for collets for tool-holding; then it is very comfortable with rotary tables, angle vices (is that the right term?), etc, all but for the universal dividing head. 

So ... SU1 for its unique profile and versatility, compactness, sturdiness, and brushless low-end torque.  I think it's worthy of a CNC retrofit.


----------



## canadianhorsepower (Dec 23, 2013)

were can I get one of those???


----------



## Wizard69 (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks for the link ps and story background, I've always wondered where the idea for this mill came from.  It makes a little more sense if it is for the watchmaking/clockmaking world.  I've always have seen this mill as a great idea if a little on the small size.  



oxotnik said:


> I love the little SU1.  Small and sturdy, weighing in at about 200lb for such a small machine; machines mild steel with ease; cuts aluminum or copper like butter.
> 
> It mills, slits, bores, and turns. Yes it takes a 80mm or 100mm lathe chuck (same as on C2/C3) with a MT3 shank, and essentially functions as an ultra-sturdy short-way lathe with a very large array of tooling laid out on the mill table (CNC possibility is just endless).


That is interesting in that I didn't realize the nose of the spindle took lathe chucks.  


> The odd U1 started out as a home-grown-project by an individual on a watchmaker forum.  Here is the initial appearance of the fore-runner of the U1:


Thanks for the pics.  Whomever made that original machine did a very nice job!     


> And the original thread from 2005 for additional historial refrence :
> 
> SIEG then took it and made it into the U1/SU1.


I hope the guy that did the original concept got something for it.   Not that the machine is unique other than size, still the prototype certainly inspired Sieg.  


> Here's my SU1 cutting 2024 aluminum alloy with a 16mm endmill:
> 
> 
> Regarding the oft-noted concern with Z-axis space, simply opt for collets for tool-holding; then it is very comfortable with rotary tables, angle vices (is that the right term?), etc, all but for the universal dividing head.


This is what bothers me about the machine, it is very compact in axis travels and clearances.  At least in the form shown on the Grizzley site it is.  That being said a larger version would be very appealing for many home shop machinist.  





> So ... SU1 for its unique profile and versatility, compactness, sturdiness, and brushless low-end torque.  I think it's worthy of a CNC retrofit.



I guess it depends upon your intentions.   I just look at the XYZ travels and crupper over the fact that it is too compact for my interests even if it is a great idea.   I could see where watchmakers would be all over this machine though.

In any event thanks for the info.   I really didn't know the history of the machine.  We can only hope that it is successful and inspires Sieg to build a larger variant.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 23, 2013)

> were can I get one of those



Luc sold in the US by grizzly as the G0727 Mini Horizontal/Vertical Mill current price $ 850

Tin


----------



## canadianhorsepower (Dec 23, 2013)

Thans Tim 
 but im  in Canada and Busy Bee didnt know they were the only distributor in Canada


----------



## oxotnik (Dec 23, 2013)

Wizard69 said:


> ...  We can only hope that it is successful and inspires Sieg to build a larger variant...



SIEG's neighbor factory actually makes a bigger variant, the X8120 universal mill. This oddity found itself into the Chinese national registry of machinery as "model 17 universal mill", and can be found just about everywhere inside China, but seldom if ever exported.  

It weighs in at about 1300 lb; takes MT4 tooling. Second hand costs about the same as a brand new SU1.

As far as I can tell, it is "inspired by" if not an outright copy of the Swiss Schaublin 12.

The one shown in the photo below was apparently made in 1978.  I've been itching to get one to park next to the SU1.

Generally speaking, I'd always been fascinated by horizontal and universal mills.  I guess the universals really is a breed of its own; a cross between a mill and a lathe...


----------



## Tin Falcon (Dec 24, 2013)

> I guess the universals really is a breed of its own; a cross between a mill and a lathe...



Universal mills are relatively new. But not a combination mill lathe .
The three in one machines attempt to do that and not usually well. 
the first and early milling machines were horizontal mills. Atlas made a horizontal mill for the hobby market, and the gingerly series of build your own machines featured a horizontal mill. there are some advantages to the horizontal..

Once the Bridgeport was invented horizontal mills and shapers lost favor in small shops.  
So the universal mill looks to be a capable small horizontal with some vertical capability.

Tin


----------

