# Les Chenery rotary engine 1:5



## Rudirk (Nov 17, 2019)

Hallo,
a few years ago I asked for some information for this engine. I saw it on a video.
Many problems ( no time, other projekts....) had stopt it.
Now I have all informations I need an I try to build this wonderfull engine.
I have the original plan, the building history from model engineer and 100 photos from building this engine.
Today I negotiate for castings.
There are many questions an I hope someone could help me here.
First I want to build the valve guide.

The red section shows my problem. First I must finish a tool for .437 DIA. But how could I turn the section between this DIA and the .190 drilling ?

Sorry for my bad english.
I hope you could understand me.

Rudi


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## glue-itcom (Nov 17, 2019)

His engines are stunning, a number are on show at the Shuttleworth Collection, I took some pictures to share

The 14 cylinder rotary is rather special





Best regards, Nigel


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## Rudirk (Nov 17, 2019)

There are no words to describe this engines. They are perfekt.


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## ninefinger (Nov 18, 2019)

First I've never made the engine so this is just my thoughts...
Out of context its hard to say without seeing the assembly for that section.  What is the purpose of the .437 diameter? Why is it chamfered from there to the .190 diameter? Is it important or is it drawn from an "as made" point of view? Does the .437" diameter hold an o-ring or similar?  The inside angle and thickness at the tip does not have a dimension so not important?
2 choices - build it as drawn or as you think it needs to be.

My first impression is the inside angle is not important if no dimension is shown, so make the .437" with a small grooving / boring bar, and the angle shown is the land of the 118 degree tip of a drill from making the .281 opening (with detail omitted for the little bit that would not be taken by the drill being smaller than the .437" groove) - see my first image.

My second though /guess is that a custom bit is ground to finish that area. A custom tool can make it in the opening and work to make the groove and angle all in one...probably the way to go seeing as you need a very small tool for the groove anyway. (2nd and third images).





Mike


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## Chiptosser (Nov 18, 2019)

Use the .281 Drill


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## Rudirk (Nov 19, 2019)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6QkfCSsH1D-S3pMXzFOdjM5SUE

This is the link to the pictures.
Thank you for your tips. I will try it soon an show you the result.


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## xpylonracer (Nov 20, 2019)

Nice pictures of the build, thanks for sharing.


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## karlw144 (Nov 20, 2019)

Great pictures, some very nice setups that I hope to use in the future. Thanks for the post.


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## Rudirk (Nov 20, 2019)

Hallo, I have used all your tips. Here is the result.










I think, I can use this part.


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## Rudirk (Nov 21, 2019)

Here are the next parts.


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## bikr7549 (Dec 1, 2019)

Hello,
I am trying to find a set of plans for this engine, the Gnome. Stephen Wessel and Les Chenery seem to be the sources for plans but I have not been able to track down a contact or source for either. If you know where I can buy a set of these please let me know.

Bob


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## Rudirk (Dec 1, 2019)

[email protected]
Here I bought my first plan.


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## Rudirk (Dec 1, 2019)

http://modelenginenews.org/suppliers.html#chenery

[EMAIL][email protected][/EMAIL]

I hope you could get the plan by this way.


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## bikr7549 (Dec 1, 2019)

Thank you Rudrik, email sent to John.


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## Rudirk (Dec 1, 2019)

I hope you get a answer.


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## bikr7549 (Dec 1, 2019)

Almost immediately I got a very detailed email response of plans available with costing. Thanks again!


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## Rudirk (Dec 1, 2019)

That’s great.


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## Rudirk (Dec 8, 2019)

Hallo bikr7549,
if you want to have some informations please send me a email .

[email protected]


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## Rudirk (Dec 27, 2019)

Hallo, I am waiting for my castings an I have startet my 3D printer for fun. 
In January I will get first models for the engine. It is made by sand casting from a profession foundry.
Now I’m printing cylinders for the model.


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## Rudirk (Jan 1, 2020)

now are a few parts printed.


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## bikr7549 (Jan 30, 2020)

The Chenry Gnome plan set arrived and I am pretty impressed. Very well done drawings, interesting to review.

Bob


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## Rudirk (Mar 29, 2020)

There are a lot of problems to get the cast parts. So I have build the part from full alloy .
It look no so fine like casting but I think it’s ok. Now I am drawing and turning the cylinder. Material EGT


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## bikr7549 (Mar 29, 2020)

Very nice work Rudolph!


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## kitson (Mar 30, 2020)

To anyone out there a genuine builder i have a crancase casting from when i built my engine please contact me through the forum i will pass it on to a genuine builder for postage cost


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## e.picler (Mar 30, 2020)

Hi Kitson!
I have sent you PV message.

Thanks,
Edi


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## Rudirk (Apr 3, 2020)




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## Rudirk (Apr 8, 2020)




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## Technician87 (Apr 8, 2020)

Awesome machining rudrik, your very skilled!! May I ask how are the rear gears that drive the pumps and magnetos lubricated? In the drawings and videos I've seen there doesn't seem to be any form of seal in the rear section of the rear drum?? I'm scratching my head lol any enlightenment would be much appreciated!!


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## kitson (Apr 8, 2020)

Sealing the bearing is a problem i resolved this on my engine by fitting seald bearings they were slightly wider so i remade the housings also i made the front housing and propeler boss all in one as instructed by Mike Cole a prolific model engine builder


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## Technician87 (Apr 8, 2020)

kitson said:


> Sealing the bearing is a problem i resolved this on my engine by fitting seald bearings they were slightly wider so i remade the housings also i made the front housing and propeler boss all in one as instructed by Mike Cole a prolific model engine builder


Thank you for the information,as for the gears that drive the pumps and magneto,did you seal them in anyway and lubricate them or are they exposed to the elements?


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## Rudirk (Apr 8, 2020)

Oh this are problems for later. 
Is it possible to fly a light model with the engine? 
In inventor I have seen that the piston open the holes in the cylinder very small. If there is a little difference between the holes, does it run too. There are 0,5 mm Max. The drill runs a little bit up and down during boring the holes. I hope you could understand my English .


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## kitson (Apr 8, 2020)

Technician87 said:


> Thank you for the information,as for the gears that drive the pumps and magneto,did you seal them in anyway and lubricate them or are they exposed to the elements?


No i did not seal the gears left them open there is plenty of oil about when you run the engine as you will find out


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## Technician87 (Apr 8, 2020)

kitson said:


> No i did not seal the gears left them open there is plenty of oil about when you run the engine as you will find out


Haha I'm sure,thank you for your help!! I may make a few modifications!


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## kitson (Apr 8, 2020)

Rudirk said:


> Oh this are problems for later.
> Is it possible to fly a light model with the engine?
> In inventor I have seen that the piston open the holes in the cylinder very small. If there is a little difference between the holes, does it run too. There are 0,5 mm Max. The drill runs a little bit up and down during boring the holes. I hope you could understand my English .


yes i would say so, great fun was had drilling those holes i am thinking i drilled 1mm holes the same as the circle of holes in the cylinder base (fuel transfer ports)
there is a youtube video of Ray Williams flying A Vickers Gun Bus it may be a 1/4" scale engine i will check


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## Rudirk (Apr 8, 2020)

Has Someone a video from running the engine. I find only the video from Ron.
Which propeller can be used and what is the Umin from the engine.


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## kitson (Apr 8, 2020)

Rudirk said:


> Has Someone a video from running the engine. I find only the video from Ron.
> Which propeller can be used and what is the Umin from the engine.


this is my engine running i did not intend to fly it it is mounted on a Gun carriage as in a picture taken from Andrew Naham,s book, you can see additionl tank that i use fuel/oil when i run it to be removed when in Exhibition mode


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## Rudirk (Apr 8, 2020)

Thank you for this video. It looks very great. I hope my engine become ready .
There are a lot of problems . One are the key ways . There I must look for another possibility . I couldn’t produce them.


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## kitson (Apr 8, 2020)

Rudirk said:


> Thank you for this video. It looks very great. I hope my engine become ready .
> There are a lot of problems . One are the key ways . There I must look for another possibility . I couldn’t produce them.


Yes there are challenge,s it will be worth it when completed i did not attempt the woodruf keys on a taper i followed the full size method and cut straight keys


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## awake (Apr 9, 2020)

Kitson, that is really impressive - so smooth running. Well done!!!


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## kitson (Apr 9, 2020)

awake said:


> Kitson, that is really impressive - so smooth running. Well done!!!


Thank you for that What you can,t experience from the video is the smell of Castrol R oil but as with the full size total loss oil it is the messiest engine you could wish to run but great fun


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## awake (Apr 9, 2020)

Hah - I can envision standing in the wrong place and winding up coated in a fine spray of oil!


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## kitson (Apr 9, 2020)

awake said:


> Hah - I can envision standing in the wrong place and winding up coated in a fine spray of oil!


Yes i have an old  jacket i use when i run the engine


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## Rudirk (Apr 23, 2020)

This is the next step for me. I will try to make the keyways by myself and I hope that’s the right thing to do this.


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## kitson (Apr 23, 2020)

Best of luck with that perhaps post a picture of the operation


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## Rudirk (Apr 24, 2020)

Thank you, I hope it will do his job.


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## Rudirk (Apr 24, 2020)

The drawings are perfect . You don’t need a glass for details. They are coloured. Very nice.
Delivering service is good.


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## Rudirk (Apr 24, 2020)

Today I worked hard.


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## Rudirk (Apr 24, 2020)

Tomorrow I must clean the maschines.


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## kitson (Apr 24, 2020)

Looking good so far


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## Rudirk (Apr 25, 2020)

Here are the next steps. Milling and drilling.




















Next step ist drilling the wholes for the key way .


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## Rudirk (Apr 28, 2020)




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## Rudirk (Apr 29, 2020)

Today I finished some small parts and screws.


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## Rudirk (Apr 29, 2020)

Why I need this part ? Is it for stabilisation ?


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## Rudirk (May 1, 2020)

Hallo,
today I could make the first test. It works very good with aluminium .









This is my first tool, I have made for making a keyway. The HSS bar was inside the box in a little bag. 
I hope it works on steel too.


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## xpylonracer (May 1, 2020)

Looks like a good result, advantage is of course you can grind old used/broken HSS cutters to the width you need.

xpylonracer


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## Rudirk (May 1, 2020)

That’s a good idea.


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## Rudirk (May 1, 2020)

At the Gnome are a lot of key ways . I hope, I could manufacture them with this tool.


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## Rudirk (May 1, 2020)

This is steel and it works very good.


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## kitson (May 2, 2020)

A fine job you have made of that well done


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## Rudirk (May 14, 2020)

Here is my new baby. Now I have to make a few tools for grinding something.


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## awake (May 14, 2020)

Rudirk, I am so sorry to tell you, but in your photos I spotted a significant problem with the Clarkson. However, good news - if you will ship it to me, I will be happy to work on it and fix it for you, for free. It might take me some time to complete the work, but I should have it back to you within 15-20 years.

  

Which is another way of saying, I am experiencing tool envy! Looks like a nice machine, in good shape - have fun with it!


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## Rudirk (May 14, 2020)

Oh my dear...
Please tell me your address . I’m happy to find someone for repairing the grinder.
And so fast.....


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## Rudirk (May 15, 2020)

What kind of screws are that ?


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## Peter Twissell (May 15, 2020)

Ooh - nice!
Do you intend to make a cutter grinding attachment?


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## Rudirk (May 15, 2020)

With the new mashine I got a few tool parts . Now I am testing what I could do with this parts. I will grind tools for my large building the rotary engine. First I build a tool to fit SK40 tools.


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## awake (May 15, 2020)

Rudirk said:


> Oh my dear...
> Please tell me your address . I’m happy to find someone for repairing the grinder.
> And so fast.....



Oh, you fell for it? I mean, oh, good! Well, in that case, I'll even pay for the shipping. I will send you a "genuine certified cashiers check" for $10,000, which will be way more than you need. You cash the check, ship the machine, and send me the difference.* Oh, and by the way, I am not a Nigerian prince, but I have some friends who are, and I'd love to put you in contact with them as well.

*I guarantee the check will cash just fine. Of course, 30 days later the bank may ask for the money back, but hey, who worries about what will happen 30 days from now?!?


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## awake (May 15, 2020)

Rudirk said:


> View attachment 116293
> 
> What kind of screws are that ?



Hard to tell from the picture. The one on the right looks like it could just be a regular thread that has been worn/blunted from long use. The one on the left could be the same, but a bit more bunged up.

Have you tried any standard connectors in these threads (gently, of course)?


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## Rudirk (May 15, 2020)

No, I have not tried any connector because here in Germany it’s not easy to get connectors with inch.
It’s not easy to find a idea how to clamp something.








i think this is a good idea.


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## Rudirk (May 16, 2020)

This is the result from today . I machined a cylinder with a 25 mm while for the ER collet . The screws are metric now 
The milking tool is only a example and for testing 25 mm whole.


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## Rudirk (May 18, 2020)

Today I made a Adapter plate for turning the tool holder 90 degree . Now it’s better for grinding lathe tools. In this position I have only turning the Tool for grinding the other side.


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## awake (May 19, 2020)

Good progress!


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## Rudirk (May 29, 2020)

Hallo, here is the next step.





That is the material for the front and back over.


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## Rudirk (Jun 7, 2020)

Next steps are done . Everything nine times.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 8, 2020)

Rudirk said:


> View attachment 116964
> 
> View attachment 116965
> 
> ...


Looks good.  I still have a hard time believing that this type of engine actually propelled an airplane in WWI


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## Rudirk (Jun 8, 2020)

Why ?


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## Peter Twissell (Jun 8, 2020)

The rotary design allowed an air-cooled engine to be built at a lower weight and with less complexity than the conventional layout designs of the day.
People are still flying restored and reproduction aircraft with rotaries today.
The Fokker DR1 fitted with a rotary was a very capable aircraft.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 8, 2020)

Rudirk said:


> Why ?


I am assuming this is the type of engine that the engine rotated.  All that mass had to be balanced, if a piece ;was damaged and flew off, it would become immediately unbalanced.


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## Rudirk (Jun 9, 2020)

I have a problem with mashing the fins.
I it right that the find are 0.53 mm thick ?





When I saw this photo , I can’t believe this.


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## Rudirk (Jun 9, 2020)

this is the drawing.


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## Rudirk (Jun 9, 2020)

Di you think, this is a possibility to grind the tool ?


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## Saddo (Jun 10, 2020)

Would you like a copy of the manual for your Clarkson cutter grinder ?


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## Rudirk (Jun 10, 2020)

Yes, that’s great. Then I could use this mashine right.


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## Saddo (Jun 10, 2020)

We have one of these machines in our club, it took a while to understand the principles and make a few finger attachments and now it's a joy to have cutting tools that really cut. Enjoy your really lucky.
Brian.


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## Rudirk (Jun 10, 2020)

Thank you very much.


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## Rudirk (Jun 13, 2020)

I bought a new tool. A Komet holder wit a 0.9 mm tool. It’s a class of its own. It work perfekt.


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## Rudirk (Jun 13, 2020)

That’s the result from today.


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## Saddo (Jun 13, 2020)

You've been really busy, looks amazing. Just eight more to go


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## bikr7549 (Jun 13, 2020)

How are you tightening the cylinders onto the liner to make sure they are tight and always line up correctly? A wrench that uses the spark plug hole perhaps?


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## Rudirk (Jun 14, 2020)

Why I must do this ? My English isn’t so good. I put the cylinder onto the lathe and first I though the front and zero my display. Then I make 5 fins . Near the spark plug while I have an other deep of the fins . I made a drawing with fin numbers and the right deep of them. 
I hope that I have understand your question???


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## Rudirk (Jun 14, 2020)

Sorry, now I understand your question .
Before I started this, I put the cylinders complete into the crankcase. Then I mark at each cylinder the position of the plug. This tool I use for getting out the cylinder.




In the Model engineer I found this. There was a article.


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## bikr7549 (Jun 14, 2020)

Ahh, very good, thank you. Exactly what I was wondering about. Ist es leichter auf deutsch, die Frage zu antworten?


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## Peter Twissell (Jun 14, 2020)

If I read correctly, the position of each cylinder is defined by the point at which the thread becomes tight.
Is this correct?


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## Rudirk (Jun 14, 2020)

Yes, German ist easier .
Yes, you have to install all cylinders an then you can mark the line for the plug.


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## Rudirk (Jun 14, 2020)

here you can see it.At 48.


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## Richard Hed (Jun 15, 2020)

bikr7549 said:


> Ahh, very good, thank you. Exactly what I was wondering about. Ist es leichter auf deutsch, die Frage zu antworten?


Wer sprechen sie zu?


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## Rudirk (Jun 15, 2020)

Für mich ist das einfacher.




Not perfekt but ready. Now I’m looking for new problems.


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## Rudirk (Jun 18, 2020)

Could somebody tell me something about the propeller and the rmp and the total weight of the engine. I will calculate if flying a plane is possible.


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## Peter Twissell (Jun 19, 2020)

I have seen (i.e. on the internet somewhere) a model flying with a home built rotary. I believe it was a freelance design engine with accurate scale 'Gnome' external features and internals designed for added durability. IIRC the aircraft was an Avro 504.


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## xpylonracer (Jun 19, 2020)

There's a Bentley rotary flying here. 

xpylonracer


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## Rudirk (Jun 20, 2020)

The Bentley is a bigger engine with a lot of power. I have the book an plan to build it.
The gnome does not have so much power. If I the rmp and the prop size I could calculate the thrust . And the weight from the engine.


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## Peter Twissell (Jun 20, 2020)

With the correct choice of airframe, it is possible to fly with almost any engine. A slower flying aircraft with large wing area is more efficient and can carry a heavy engine with low power. The Wright Brothers had 12 HP from an 82 kg engine.


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## Rudirk (Jun 27, 2020)

Hallo,
I have a question machining the Rear ball bearing housing.





her you could read ....and TCD marked.




is this my TCD and my starting point for milling the key way and boring the 18 wholes ?


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## Rudirk (Jun 28, 2020)

I have an other question . This are the dimensions from my bearing :
5/8 x 1 3/8 x 11/32.
Is this the right bearing ?


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## Rudirk (Jun 29, 2020)

That’s the result if the last step is wrong .


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## Rudirk (Oct 4, 2020)

Now the summer is gone . Time to make further parts for my engine.


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## kitson (Oct 4, 2020)

the bearings i used were of the rubber sealed type as i found it impossible to effectivley seal the rear bearing as in the Chenery drawings it meant a slight modification to the housing i think around 1/32" deeper?


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## Rudirk (Oct 5, 2020)

Do you have a link for this bearing ?


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## kitson (Oct 5, 2020)

Yes I will check my paperwork the bearings are stock items over here the only difference is the width Od & bore the same I will be in touch with regarding this matter shortly


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