# Anybody want to guess---



## Brian Rupnow

What I'm playing at???


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## rkd

Its a Webster. I only think that because I'm studying the plans right now and I thought it looked familiar.


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## crankshafter

hi Brian.
I'm surprised if it's not a cyl. for the Webster. :
Fun to build, and a great runner 
crankshafter


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## itowbig

beer bottle cooler ha ha


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## black85vette

I was a little slower. Have the plans out on the work table and walked by and noticed the similarity. Just not the first to do so. After I am done with my current project I will start the Webster.

Brian; I recall reading that it needed extra cooling. Are you going with the stock cylinder / fin design?


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## Brian Rupnow

Well there!!! Thats enough machining foolishness for one day. Yes, its a Webster. I am not going to add any extra cooling. It will only run for 5 minutes at a time---if I was going to run it any longer than that, I'd shave the fins off and add a water jacket. I haven't been in my little shop since I built Elmers 33-Kind Of. Fortunately I've had "real work" to keep me busy for a few weeks now. Its just that on a Sunday, in the middle of February, there isn't a whole lot to do, and I am intrigued by the simplicity of the Webster. I don't plan on rushing through this engine like I have my other projects, rather it will be a "fill in empty days" kind of job. The original plans that were posted are very well done, so I won't be posting any plans of this one. Just progress posts as I go along. This will be my first internal combustion engine.---Brian Rupnow


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## Brian Rupnow

And Oh Yeah---In case I haven't mentioned it 2 or 300 times now---"DAMN---I hate using a parting off tool in steel!!!!"


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## crankshafter

hi Brian
Nice work. I build mine a couple of years ago and it was a fun project. only a few things I would have done is making the the crankshaft a Little bit longer so I could have had room for a belt setup for a generator. One more thing make it with a vertical exhaustpipe. Like the plans says it is horizontal, and it blowing the exh.gas in to the geartrain.Messy? Ask me.
I will be following your project.
crank


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## black85vette

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> And Oh Yeah---In case I haven't mentioned it 2 or 300 times now---"DAMN---I hate using a parting off tool in steel!!!!"



Me too!


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## chuck foster

brian you might want to try a rear mount tool holder for parting.
i will try to post some pictures of my rear mount tool holder if you like.

chuck


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## tel

I'll second that - wouldn't be without mine


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## Brian Rupnow

aermotor8  said:
			
		

> brian you might want to try a rear mount tool holder for parting.
> i will try to post some pictures of my rear mount tool holder if you like.
> 
> chuck



Chuck---Sounds interesting. I'm sure others would be interested as well. Why don't you start a thread about it and post pictures and a write up there.---Brian


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## CrewCab

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Fortunately I've had "real work" to keep me busy for a few weeks now.



Good to hear Brian, hopefully you can shake off the "stir crazy" feeling and just enjoy your machining as a hobby, ......... good luck feller Thm:

CC


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## Brian Rupnow

Had to drive down to Toronto this morning and call on a customer, then back home this afternoon to finish the cylinder and model up the mating part. Got 2 calls from shops in Concord and Kitchener wanting to see me about work tomorrow---and the weather guy is forecasting a blizzard!!!


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## Brian Rupnow

This evening I discovered the first "caveat" for anyone building the Webster engine. The four tapped holes that hold the cylinder to the "Cylinder Head-Frame". I used #5-40 threads instead of the #4-40 called for on the plans (only because I have a box full of #5-40 shcs). And here's the rub----If you only drill through the 1/4" mounting flange, and not through the first cooling fin, (for cosmetic purposes), then you can't get the threads all the way through with a normal tap, because, of course, the end of the tap hits the first cooling fin. So---I'm going to have to buy a #5-40 bottoming tap. Every time I build anything, I end up having to buy more tooling. I was afraid of putting in a tapered bore, as the cylinder is 2 1/2" long, so this morning while I was out, I bought a 27/32" drill and a 7/8" chucking reamer. That shot my budget to the tune of $82.00. Now I have to buy a bottoming tap. #@$%!!!


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## cfellows

Hey Brian, your fist foray into the IC Engine world. It's a whole new level of excitement! 

Chuck


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## Maryak

Brian,

IC, IC, IC. Maybe boring and a lap from (s)crap would have been cheaper. Only the tap to dance about then.

Seriously it's coming along nicely. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## chuck foster

hi brian
      instead of buying a bottoming tap you could make your own.
if you have a 5-40 tap that is dull or has the end broken off you can just grind the end flat and that should make a bottoming tap.
now you will have to take it easy using the tap but with some cutting oil and a little luck it should work just fine.

nice build and welcome to the world of i.c. engines ;D

chuck


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## Speedy

Brian, where in Toronto were you?
next time we should meet up and talk about your models, you would have to bring some along you know :bow:

I have been debating the webster for my sherline/taig lathe but not sure yet if the machine chuck is capable?
anyways I will be watching your progress


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## Brian Rupnow

Speedy---Yesterday I was in Oakville. Today I was in Burlington. Friday I may be in Concord. but---those are business trips--straight to customer, do business and straight back. If we got together to play "steam engine" it would have to be on a weekend.---Brian


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## Mosey

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> This evening I discovered the first "caveat" for anyone building the Webster engine. The four tapped holes that hold the cylinder to the "Cylinder Head-Frame". I used #5-40 threads instead of the #4-40 called for on the plans (only because I have a box full of #5-40 shcs). And here's the rub----If you only drill through the 1/4" mounting flange, and not through the first cooling fin, (for cosmetic purposes), then you can't get the threads all the way through with a normal tap, because, of course, the end of the tap hits the first cooling fin. So---I'm going to have to buy a #5-40 bottoming tap. Every time I build anything, I end up having to buy more tooling. I was afraid of putting in a tapered bore, as the cylinder is 2 1/2" long, so this morning while I was out, I bought a 27/32" drill and a 7/8" chucking reamer. That shot my budget to the tune of $82.00. Now I have to buy a bottoming tap. #@$%!!!



As I see it, every time I go to make something, I get the opportunity to buy more tooling!! Whoopee! Almost as good as getting to buy another machine.


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## Brian Rupnow

It seems I've dodged a bullet on this one.---Close examination showed that when the tap drill broke through the 1/4" mounting flange, I stopped and didn't keep on drilling deeper untill I hit the first cooling fin, because I didn't want to put a mark on it. The tap, of course, only wanted to go down to the depth I had drilled---because the tap wasn't hitting the cooling fin---it was hanging up on the side of the "land" at the bottom of the cooling fin. I popped the piece back in the lathe and turned that particular groove (between the 1/4" mounting flange and the first cooling fin) about 0.010" deeper. This gave the required side clearance for the tap and let me tap through untill the tap actually hit the cooling fin, like I thought it had yesterday. Now my bolts thread in full depth, with no trouble.


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## Brian Rupnow

In the Webster plans that I have, the designer calls up a 0.348" tap drill for an M10 x 1 sparkplug thread. My machinery Handbook calls up 8.5 to 8.6 MM which translates to 0.335" to 0.338".
does anybody know whats going on there???


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## Deanofid

Brian, the chart I have available for this size (m10 x 1) says to use a 9mm tap drill, or .354".

Here's one online that gives metric fine threads which concurs with my chart:

http://www.kramerusa.com/DrillTapChart.htm

Dean


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## Maryak

Brian,

My Machinerys Handbook, (16th edition page 1194), shows SAE standard threads for spark plugs 10mm x 1mm, Minor dia 0.345" 

11/32" is pretty close.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Brian Rupnow

M10 x 1 seems to be a bastard thread size-----might cost a fortune for a tap that size. I'll check tomorrow.


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## BigBore

Not too bad, Brian. Less than ten bucks. $5.60 at Victor.

http://www.victornet.com/report/Metric-Taps-Plug/618.html

$7.07 at Enco.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=92&PARTPG=INLMK32

Ed


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## Deanofid

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> M10 x 1 seems to be a bastard thread size-----might cost a fortune for a tap that size. I'll check tomorrow.



It's a normal metric fine thread. I have one if you'd like to borrow it. I'm in Idaho, but small parcel to Canukville shouldn't be much, if you can't fine one locally. 

Dean


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## Brian Rupnow

Boldly we plod onward!!! I've had lots of "real work" lately, so machining progress is slow.(BUT THATS OKAY-----HONEST!!!!) The fellow who made the Webster plans calls for a "Snug sliding fit" between the o.d. of the cylinder and the i.d. of the 1.00" bore in the support. Who's he trying to kid??? My fits range from "Won't go in at all" immediately to "Falls in". This time I did take extreme caution---musta turned my milling machine on and off 50 times checking for fit. When it even HINTED that the cylinder might fit into the hole I was boring, I shut the mill off, and put the cylinder back into the lathe and "snuck up on it" with emery cloth untill it actually was a "snug" fit. I'm stuck now---Don't want to machine anymore untill the #5-40 x 1" long shcs. which I ordered last week get here. Once they arrive, and I confirm that yes, indeed it does bolt together the way I intended, I'll do the rest of the machining on the cylinder. Then I'll finish off the stand and put the rest of the threaded holes in it, and buy a M10 x 1 tap for the sparkplug hole.--Thanks for the offer Deanofid, but I'll buy one locally--Got to help get the Canadian economy back on its feet----


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## Deanofid

That's a good thing, supporting your locals, Brian. The tap shouldn't be that much money. That size runs only about $8-10 here, and we're not even a medicated metricated country.

Dean


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## Lew_Merrick_PE

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> In the Webster plans that I have, the designer calls up a 0.348" tap drill for an M10 x 1 sparkplug thread. My machinery Handbook calls up 8.5 to 8.6 MM which translates to 0.335" to 0.338". does anybody know whats going on there???



Brian, The difference is what percentage of full threads are being made. If you go to http://www.scribd.com/Lew Merrick, you will find a document on _Pilot Hole Considerations_ that may give you information. Most "standard" tap drills are set to produce a nominal 75% of full thread. The paper will show you what the effects are on using less than 100% full thread on overall strength. The lower the percentage of full thread, the easier it is to tap -- and the weaker the joint will be. It's a trade-off.


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## Brian Rupnow

Bit by bit I'm working my way through the Webster----Its unbelievable how much it helps me understand whats going on if I model it in 3D as I go along---


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## Brian Rupnow

So here we are, making 3/8" plate into 5/16" plate. I have lots of scrap pieces of 3/8" aluminum plate laying around, and no 5/16", so I'll make a wee bit. Why is there one piece in the back right corner not milled?---Well, when I made the cylinder support, I had it in mind that I would use 3/8" plate for the plans, so I made the notch in the cylinder stand 3/8" deep instead of 5/16" like the plans call for. Then as I got deeper into the plans, I discovered that a lot of things would change if I went ahead and used 3/8" plate.-So----That unmilled corner will stay at 3/8" thick to act as a 1/16" spacer between the main 5/16" plate and the cylinder stand.


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## Brian Rupnow

A trip over to my bandsaw yields these two beauties----


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## Brian Rupnow

A little time on the mill cleaning up edges---And Voila'--A couple more parts for my Webster. Thats enough playing machinist for this weekend.


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## cfellows

Exciting stuff, Brian. Love to see your progress.

Chuck


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks for your interest Chuck. I know that builds are not terribly impressive in the early stages, and I've kind of gotten beyond posting every single step that I do as a build progresses. Once I get a few more pieces made, and it starts to look like an engine, I will probably get a few more comments from the rest of the crowd.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Today I actually did accomplish a few things, but for some reason I can't get logged onto Photobucket, so you may never actually get to see it!!! I stopped and picked up a piece of 5" x 1/2" aluminum for the base, and an end cut from a piece of 4 1/2" mild steel roundbar, about 1 3/4" long to make a flywheel from, for the princely sum of $12.00. On Monday I will resume my attempts to get back into Photobucket and hopefully post a bit more progress.


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## Brian Rupnow

Okay---I got Photobucket sorted out.---First pic is a repeat of previous post---material I purchased today. Other two pics are some progress shots. Nothing mind bending, but now that I am crazy busy with engineering work I have to sneak in a little "play machining" on the weekends.


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## black85vette

Brian;

Always good to see your projects post. I am not to far from starting this engine so it will be good to have the parts and pieces to check out. Looking good so far!


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## Jack B

Hi Brian: That is a nice project you have going. I am interested in watching your progress. I never had any experence at computer drawings. Yours are a work of art. Good luck with your engine and if there is anything I can share with you I will be happy to. Jack B


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## Brian Rupnow

Today I finished the baseplate---and Son of a Gun--It all bolts together!!! I didn't put the cut out in the baseplate that the plans show, because I want to mount the fuel tank in the area where the plans call to be cut away. Actually---The plans are different than the pictures of the finished engine in the post where I copied the engine plans from. I still lay out the hole positions as a "check", but I have got pretty good at dialing in all my hole positions using an edge finder and the feed dials on the X and Y axis of my mill. And in case you were wondering----Those humungous hypodermic needles in the background are a customers part that I am designing some material handling automation for. Apparently they are filled with some type of antibiotic cream that is used by veterinarians.






.


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## black85vette

Brian; I also layout my holes but then use my DRO on the x and y axis with an edge finder. Sometimes (like today) they don't match and I catch the mistake before I drill the hole. I think it is a good practice to do it both ways and force measuring twice.

Have you decided on a carb yet? I am thinking about Chucks vapor system.


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## Brian Rupnow

I'd like to add my thoughts about laying out the holes in that piece of plate. The designer (who seems to have done a very good job) layed out the holes in his drawing, looking at the side of the plate opposite to where the drilling actually takes place. This means that when I (this time the machinist) go to make that plate, I have to visualise the hole pattern in "reverse" to drill the holes correctly. It wouldn't matter if the holes were plain holes---they could then be layed out and drilled exactly as per the drawing. The fact that they are counterbored holes is the fact that makes it necessary to work from the "reverse" side of the plate. I like to drill the hole, and then immediately put in the counterbore tool without changing any of my offsets, put in the counterbore, and then move on to the next hole, and so on. This makes for a lot of changing back and forth between the drill and the counterboring tool. Probably this method would be discouraged in any kind of "production" machine shop, because of the time it takes, but for me, time is far cheaper than the hassle of drilling all the holes first, then resetting everything to put the counterbores in afterwords. I find this "reverse" layout very difficult. I know that I am guilty of the same type of thing in some of the drawings I make, and sometimes there is simply no "good" way of avoiding that.----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Black85vette---I don't have the faintest idea of what to do about a carburetor. I have never built an i.c. engine before, and I can't help but think that a small carb off of some R.C. engine would be terribly expensive. (I don't know this for a fact.) I like Chucks vapour system, but I'm not certain that he ever got it to actually work to his satisfaction.


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## NickG

Hi Brian,

Just found this thread, I will be watching this unfold - I like the webster. I am yet to get into the world of I.C.s but it is something I aspire to do next.

Good work :bow:

Nick


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## Brian Rupnow

I didn't care for the look of the rather plain crankshaft "throw" in the original plan, so I did a little creative whittling and made one which incorporates a counterbalance----


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## metalmad

nice touch with the crank
should make balancing easer
as long as mine ran I was happy when i did mine lol
cheers Pete


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## jtrout13

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> A little time on the mill cleaning up edges---And Voila'--A couple more parts for my Webster. Thats enough playing machinist for this weekend.



Sorry to quote a picture, but I wondered how you manage to round off corners like that?


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## Brian Rupnow

With my big stationary belt sander.--4" wide belt, 2 HP industrial motor.--Good eye and steady hand!!!----


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## Brian Rupnow

I'm getting very close to having a crankshaft here. All thats left is some creative silver soldering. I had to go and buy a 5/16" reamer, but thats okay.--just another one to add to my ever growing collection. Maybe on the weekend I'll have time to make the crankshaft bushings.


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## Brian Rupnow

Chuck--So whats the verdict on your adaptation of Jan Ridders "fume" carburetor? Are you 100% happy with it?-Would you recomend that I go that route for my first internal combustion engine. If there is something better, what do you think it is, and do you have any idea what they cost. I am an absolute "babe in the woods" when it comes to this small an induction system.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

This afternoon I got held up waiting for some information on my "real job", so I put the time to good use by finishing the silver soldering on the crakshaft, and making the brass "main bearings".


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## Brian Rupnow

The plans for the Webster engine call for an aluminum connecting rod with bronze or brass bushings. Is there any good reason not to just make the whole connecting rod out of brass, and not use bushings. If this was an engine being called on to do some actual work, I realize that strength could be an issue, but an engine that is only used for demonstration---??????????


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## cfellows

Brian,

The only concern I would have is the extra weight from the brass might cause a vibration problem. My hit n miss engine has an aluminum connecting rod riding directly on a steel crank and I've never had a problem. Just keep it oiled and it doesn't seem to wear much.

Chuck


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## Brian Rupnow

This is my set-up for "in-line" reaming. I have a big old angle plate that I bought when I bought the milling machine. I bolt it to the mill table, clamp the engine base to the angle plate, then use a piece of 1/4" cold rolled in the mill chuck to locate the "center" of the bushing---(thats why I reamed the bushings when I was making them.) Then I lock the table position, swap out the cold rolled for the proper size drill and drill through both bushings in one set-up, then put in the 5/16" reamer and ream both bushings in the same set-up. This may be a bit unorthodox, but I have used this method on a number of small engines now, and it works very well.


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## Brian Rupnow

And here's the crankshaft in its new home.----And thanks Chuck, for the advise about the con rod.


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## black85vette

Brian: You got me excited about this one. Yours is looking great (no surprise there). I have ordered the material for the cylinder and am getting twice as much as I need so when I screw up the first one I won't have to wait for another shipment. ;D  I did get a nice surprise when I ordered. I selected "pick up at local store" because they don't charge for shipping that way. Got an email that said they didn't have my material in stock locally but they were shipping from St Louis to my house at no extra charge. Sweet!

Like your set up for boring.  I will give that a go.  I have been drilling and boring the two sides clamped together rather than in their proper positions.

Chuck: I have the same question Brian does; are you satisfied with the fume tank / carb? Will it work for this engine?


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## Brian Rupnow

I tried to start on my flywheel this morning, but that end from a 4" diameter shaft I picked up last week for $2 is harder than the devils horn!!! Even with carbides my little lathe was squealing and smoking, so I quit. I don't want to wreck my machinery---I called down to my metal supplier and he can sell me a 4" diameter piece of brass x 1 1/2" long for $45, so I may use that instead. Since I had the rest of the day to play in my shop, I decided to make the connecting rod. Remember last week when I had to mill down a piece of 3/8" aluminum to get some 5/16" thick to build the webster bearing stands---Well the Lord must love me, because I found a left over piece of it just big enough to make my con rod. I layed out the centers, and also layed out the center of the four 1/4" holes that create the 1/8"radii where the tapered center meets the round ends of the rod. I set it up in my "Tilt a Whirl" vice, drilled all the holes, and reamed the two which will get bushings. Then, having calculated the angle of taper on the connecting rod center section, I offset my vice 1.5 degrees and milled from hole to hole. This worked out great.


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## Brian Rupnow

Then I put in a larger end mill and relieved most of the material to a depth pf .031 on each side of the center portion of the rod.


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## Brian Rupnow

I then made up a couple of round plugs with stepped diameters---the smaller diameter turned to fit in the reamed hole in the end of the rod, and the larger diameter to match the large diameter at each end of the rod.--I inserted the plugs and used them to trace around with my scriber, so that I would be able to clearly see the finished sizes when the plugs were removed.


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## Brian Rupnow

And this is the result---Nice clear lines to see---Then I trimmed away the unwanted material with my bandsaw. I try to leave about 0.030" of metal for the final step after sawing.


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## Brian Rupnow

This next step, I had never done before. Everything else I have "rounded off" was done on my big stationary belt sander, "by eye". That method wouldn't work in this situation, so I did it in the mill. I made up a small fixture block which held a pin the correct size to fit the end of the con rod over. (Two different fixtures, because two different sized holes in the con rod ends.) I must say it worked well, but I didn't like getting my fingers in that close to a revolving cutter. First I tried it bare handed, but that was too scary. Then I put on a pair of leather work gloves, all the time remembering all the horror stories about gloves being sucked into revolving machinery. To say I was being very carefull would be an UNDERSTATEMENT!!!! At any rate, the process works very well, and I still have all 10 digits.


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## Brian Rupnow

I think the results speak for themselves. I am very happy with the way this connecting rod turned out, and I guess that my next part to build will probably be the piston and some bushings for the rod ends.


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## Mosey

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> I then made up a couple of round plugs with stepped diameters---the smaller diameter turned to fit in the reamed hole in the end of the rod, and the larger diameter to match the large diameter at each end of the rod.--I inserted the plugs and used them to trace around with my scriber, so that I would be able to clearly see the finished sizes when the plugs were removed.



You might consider buying a compass to lay out those circular lines. You can get very sweet old Starretts for cheap prices on EBay. Quicker than making plugs.
Also, I suggest using hard material for those fixture blocks and pins. Less wobble than aluminum.


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## Brian Rupnow

Mosey---I'm a design engineer. I've got a whole drawer full of compasses. Hard to use though, after the holes are already drilled. ;D ;D ;D I did have the lines drawn on there, just as you suggest, but the drilling and reaming raises enough swarf that it wipes them away.


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## mklotz

> I've got a whole drawer full of compasses. Hard to use though, after the holes are already drilled.



Drill a hole in a suitably sized ball bearing and mount it to one of the compass arms.


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## Brian Rupnow

Marv---What a marvelous idea!!!! I could have cheated and just put a piece of appropriate sized stock back in the reamed holes and used a compass, but I already had a "plug" of brass with the two diameters I needed on it. The aluminum piece took me 5 minutes to turn. And Marv---Thanks for taking the time to have a look at the post, and for commenting.


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## black85vette

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Sometimes I feel a bit like I'm working in a vacuum here.



Brian; I am somewhat torn when I have nothing useful to add or no questions to ask.  Hate to just keep repeating "Looks great so far".  But I am taking notes and plan to try a couple of new techniques I have seen in this build.

So: looks great so far. Keep up the nice work. Thm:


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## ozzie46

Nope! Not working in a vacuum. 

  We're here. 

  I following so many threads if I commented on them all I wouldn't get anything else done. ;D ;D ;D


 Ron


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## vlmarshall

Looks great so far. ;D


Sorry I didn't post sooner, I was busy chasing a ball bearing around on the floor with a hand drill. 




Well, I could have been. ;D


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## Maryak

Brian,

Following along, gotta agree with B85V.

Speaking of old tricks - A wooden plug in the hole with a piece of brass nailed to the end gives a good centre for an already drilled hole.

Just another way to skin the cat.

Best Regards
Bob


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## Metal Butcher

Brian your build is coming along real well, Nice work!

If you ever decide to make the ball end caliper that Marv suggested, please post the set up and machining information. I would like to have it as a back up solution to the standard lay out procedures I use. But, I can't picture the set up for drilling a hole in a ball bearing. Every time I try to handle one it runs away on me, and I imagine its like trying to grab hold of a greased pig!

Good tip Marv, thanks.

-MB


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## zeeprogrammer

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Sometimes I feel a bit like I'm working in a vacuum here.



You're not. I always read your posts.


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks for the comments guys.---Metal Butcher--You'll laugh when you read this.---I too was wondering just how on earth do you fixture and locate the center of a ball to drill it, back a couple of years ago when I was building the fly ball governor. --You put it in a 3 jaw chuck in your lathe and drill it with a drill mounted in a tailstock chuck. Works like a charm, and once somebody pointed it out to me, it was so glareingly obvious that I felt kinda foolish!!!


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## cfellows

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Chuck--So whats the verdict on your adaptation of Jan Ridders "fume" carburetor? Are you 100% happy with it?-Would you recomend that I go that route for my first internal combustion engine. If there is something better, what do you think it is, and do you have any idea what they cost. I am an absolute "babe in the woods" when it comes to this small an induction system.---Brian



Yes and no. From a performance perspective, it's outstanding. Easy to adjust the air mixer, starts first time, every time, and never misses a lick. However... there's no throttle adjustment, so the engine takes off and runs full tilt unless you have it governed. You can adjust the speed somewhat by making the mixture run rich, but it also makes the engine run uneven. So, it needs some kind of butterfly or other adjustable restrictor between the engine and the air mixer.

Chuck


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## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Thanks for the comments guys.---Metal Butcher--You'll laugh when you read this.---I too was wondering just how on earth do you fixture and locate the center of a ball to drill it, back a couple of years ago when I was building the fly ball governor. --You put it in a 3 jaw chuck in your lathe and drill it with a drill mounted in a tailstock chuck. Works like a charm, and once somebody pointed it out to me, it was so glareingly obvious that I felt kinda foolish!!!



Thanks Brian. I know the three jaw will center (roughly) and hold it. However, It may or may not be accurate enough for the application in this case. Holding it in the two jaws of a milling vise does not appear to be an proper set up, as it likely damage the ball bearing, and/or vise jaws. 

Since a ball bearing is hardened steel vs soft brass, it makes it difficult if not impossible to drill with the HSS drills that the average hobbyist like me might have. 

After putting in a little thought I came to the conclusion that holding the ball bearing in a collet, and drilling it with a carbide drill drill bit would be the only approach I would venture to try, without annealing the ball bearing first.

-MB


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## shred

I made a flattened ball bearing for squaring rough stock a while back: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4409.0 

Easy to do in a collet block-- put the bearing in a small pocket or somewhere so it doesn't roll around, and stick an appropriately sized collet on over it and tighten up.


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## mklotz

I've used the collet with a backstop technique for drilling balls on a lathe. 

If you want a somewhat firmer grip than the collet can apply, you might consider a variant of the jig I used to drill some small brass balls for my PMR model horizontal mill...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1415.msg10262#msg10262 

For drilling spheres on a mill or drill press, two flat plates with holes and some clamp bolts will work. Here's a version in wood that I used to drill some wooden spheres for a friend...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6852.msg73678#msg73678


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I started out my Sunday by taking the cylinder off the frame and honing it. I have an old brake cylinder hone that I bought about 30 years ago, and since I never ever throw tooling away, I thought it had rested in the drawer long enough. I set the cylinder up in my vice, coated everything liberally with cutting oil, chucked the hone up in my variable speed hand drill, and had at it. I maintained a "medium speed" with the drill, and kept moving the hone from one end of the cylinder to the other as it revolved. you have to be very carefull while doing this, because if you slide it too far out either end, it gets exciting real fast. (If you have ever used one of these things, you know exactly what I'm talking about!!!) I'm not sure if the results will ultimately make any difference to the way the engine runs, but I figured it wouldn't hurt anything.


----------



## black85vette

***********OFFICIAL VACUUM FILLER*******************

Cylinder is looking good. What are your plans for the rings?


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Had to stop and watch "60 Minutes" with my good wife----Now, where was I----oh yes, what did I do the rest of the day.---Wifey and I took a drive around the area to see all the flooding that occurs every spring when we get a week of warm weather in March, then back to the machine shop.---To make the "perfect Piston"!!! Well, maybe not perfect, but it turned out nice. Thats why I wanted to hone the cylinder first, so that I could make the piston a "perfect fit", ot at least as perfect a fit as I am capable of producing. I set a piece of 1" aluminum rod up in the lathe, and "snuck up on it" untill the cylinder would just slide over the end with a little oil. Then went ahead and used pretty well all the conventional steps one would use to make a piston. Since I favour mostly #5-40 and #10-24 socket head capscrews, I changed one dimension on the Webster plans (you can see it circled up on the drawing--changed the hole spacing from 0.625 to 0.550 to let me use a pair of #5-40 shcs to retain the wrist pin). Piston rings??? Well you may ask. The original poster on this forum admitted to using a Viton o-ring in his Webster, and Chuck says that he used an o-ring of unknown origin on his Plumbing Parts engine, so thats what I am going to use. Right now their is no ring groove shown on the piston, because I don't know exactly what size to make it yet. Their is a business in Barrie called "Hercules O-ring" where I bum all my O-ring drive belts from, and they can supply me with the dimensional specifications and with the proper viton o-ring this week. I am their only customer who "buys" one o-ring every 3 or 4 months, so I generally take whatever engine I am currently building over with me, give them a little "Show and tell" demonstration and a $2 donation to their coffee fund and come away with whatever o-ring I need. : :--In the second picture down you can see the "oil tube" which supposedly aligns itself with the drip oiler in the cylinder on every stroke to supply oil to the wrist pin bearings.


----------



## arnoldb

Good going Brian ;D

I've been sitting quietly in the wings following along, like you have noticed, so I'll chirp up now-and-then!

Kind regards, Arnold


----------



## Captain Jerry

Here is a method I have used to hold a ball. Put two pieces of brass or aluminum in the vise with a piece of heavy paper between them.  With a bit of the correct diameter, drill a hole centered on the parting line to a depth of just over 1/2 the diameter of the ball. Take the paper out, insert the ball, clamp down, viola!

Jerry


----------



## Brian Rupnow

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Yes and no. From a performance perspective, it's outstanding. Easy to adjust the air mixer, starts first time, every time, and never misses a lick. However... there's no throttle adjustment, so the engine takes off and runs full tilt unless you have it governed. You can adjust the speed somewhat by making the mixture run rich, but it also makes the engine run uneven. So, it needs some kind of butterfly or other adjustable restrictor between the engine and the air mixer.
> 
> Chuck



Why couldn't you just use a common 1/4" ball valve---The kind where a turn of 90 degrees goes from "wide open" to "totally closed"??


----------



## slick95

Great fun, entertainment and learning watching your build Brian.   

Keep at it

Jeff


----------



## ariz

Brian I see that the build proceeds well, very nice job

I was thinking to buy a tool to hone the cylinders just some days ago, exactly like the one that you have showed

I don't have any cylinder to hone at present, it would be a purchase just "in case" for the future
but I don't wish that it could stay in a drawer for 30 years :big:

purchase delayed ;D


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Tomorrow I think I'm going to treat myself---to a piece of 4" diameter brass about 1 1/2" long, to make a flywheel for this Webster build. I just shipped off a disc with 120 hours of very intensive automation design for a pharmaceutical company, and a darn nice invoice with it. And tomorrow I start redesigning a machine for grinding cement core samples for laboratory inspection. I love it when the contracts come back to back like this---It takes all the guilt out of buying things that I don't really need. ;D ;D


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Ah---The best layed plans of mice and men----I went down to my metal suppliers to pick up a 2" length of 4" diameter brass to make a flywheel. Upon arriving, it was disclosed to me that 4" diameter round brass is $230 a linear foot---and they didn't have any!!!! So, Plan B was created "On the spot" and I bought a 2" length of 4" diameter aluminum instead---and a 12" length of 1/2" diameter brass--And a piece of 1" x 3/8" brass bar stock x 12" long. For the grand sum of $40.00 The plan now is to make an aluminum flywheel with 1/2" diameter brass "inserts" around the perimeter of the flywheel at every 36 degrees. The piece of bar stock is destined to become the lever which operates the intake valve.


----------



## cfellows

The price of brass is really ridiculous! Cast iron @ $65 a foot is a reasonable alternative. 12L14 @ $75 a foot is also not too bad.

If the aluminum flywheel turns out to be too light, you could always press a short length of steel tubing (or brass if you can find it) over the outer rim to add weight.

Chuck


----------



## black85vette

Brass inserts will make the flywheel real spiffy Brian.

adj. spiff·i·er, spiff·i·est. Smart in appearance or dress; stylish. tr.v. spiff·ied, spiff·y·ing, spiff·ies. To make attractive, stylish, or up-to-date


----------



## Brian Rupnow

cfellows  said:
			
		

> The price of brass is really ridiculous! Cast iron @ $65 a foot is a reasonable alternative. 12L14 @ $75 a foot is also not too bad.
> 
> If the aluminum flywheel turns out to be too light, you could always press a short length of steel tubing (or brass if you can find it) over the outer rim to add weight.
> 
> Chuck


I don't really think it will be too light. I have seen videos of the Webster running with just the plain aluminum flywheel. I think if I add 10 brass inserts as shown in the CAD model, I should be okay for weight.


----------



## radfordc

cfellows  said:
			
		

> The price of brass is really ridiculous! Cast iron @ $65 a foot is a reasonable alternative. 12L14 @ $75 a foot is also not too bad.
> 
> Chuck



You might check ebay. Sometimes you can find brass cutoffs for reasonable prices.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

We're making flywheel progress this afternoon, but my Lord, what a swarf monster!!!! The o.d. is finished, the recess in the side that shows, the 5/16" thru-hole is reamed, and the 0.500" counterbore is in for the cam gear. I swear this thing creates swarf on the ratio of 100:1. Something I have discovered here also. I always have trouble putting the recess in the sides of a flywheel---its just a miserable area to get at. A couple of months ago when I was making the "Elmers 33--Kind of" engine, I needed a cutting tool to reach into a difficult area. I had a parting off tool that was a bit too large for my lathe (I purchased a smaller one)---I ground this dreadfull daggerous point on it, and its just the cats meow for doing the flywheel recess. I turn the tool so its at 90 degrees to the flat face of the flywheel, and take a seried of plunge cuts. This works far better than any other way I have tried for this task. I have included a couple of shots of this formidable looking tool.---try it---You'll like it!!!


----------



## Shopguy

Brian
Looks like the right kind of tool for the job.
Regards
Ernie J


----------



## Brian Rupnow

All things considered, that went very well!!! I have my little shop knee deep in aluminum swarf, but I'm pleased with the way the flywheel turned out. I left an extra 1/16" of material on both sides of the main body, so that after I have drilled it and loctited the 10 brass plugs into place, I can finish turn both sides "to size" and hopefully a nice finish. I was looking at the design drawing, wondering why I didn't see any set screws in the flywheel. After reading a bit more in the instruction sheet, I see that the person who originally designed this Webster calls for the flywheel to be positioned correctly, then cross drill the flywheel and the crankshaft together for a 3/32" roll pin. I guess that must work, because he gives a link to a web page full of succesfully running Webster engines-----Its just that I feel a bit ginchy about crossdrilling the flywheel and crankshaft.--I mean, its so irrevocable!!!! If you don't get it right the first time, I guess you have to make a new crankshaft!!!!


----------



## cfellows

Did he drill the roll pin hole at an angle or did he go through the rim to get to the hub? 

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow




----------



## crankshafter

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Did he drill the roll pin hole at an angle or did he go through the rim to get to the hub?
> 
> Chuck.
> 
> Chuck.
> Next time I will be building the Webster I will make the flywheel with a taperlock. Why because I know :big:
> I had a real backfire on one of the first startups, resulting the rollpin sheared :'(
> Brian: it's not to late to make a taperlock for the flywheel methink. And it is so much easyer to set up the exh.valve timing.
> Best Regards
> CS


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This is about as good as it gets, in my shop. I didn't use a rotary table to drill these 14 holes. I sat the flywheel on top of a piece of "safrificial" aluminum plate, clamped it down to my mill table, and drilled all the holes using "ordinate" dimensions and the feed dials on my mill table---(I reamed the 10 holes in the rim). And if you have ever drilled a flywheel like this, I don't have to tell you how long it took me, or how much my back hurt from standing there untill I was finished!!! Now I'm off to cut 10 pieces of 1/2" diameter brass to loctite into the 10 holes around the rim.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

crankshafter  said:
			
		

> cfellows  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did he drill the roll pin hole at an angle or did he go through the rim to get to the hub?
> 
> Chuck.
> 
> Chuck.
> Next time I will be building the Webster I will make the flywheel with a taperlock. Why because I know :big:
> I had a real backfire on one of the first startups, resulting the rollpin sheared :'(
> Brian: it's not to late to make a taperlock for the flywheel methink. And it is so much easyer to set up the exh.valve timing.
> Best Regards
> CS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crankshafter---Thanks for having a look at my thread. The taper lock hub MAY happen yet. What did you do for a carb and a piston ring? Do you have a thread where you posted your build, with pictures?--and maybe a video???----please----
Click to expand...


----------



## Metal Butcher

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> And if you have ever drilled a flywheel like this, I don't have to tell you how long it took me, or how much my back hurt from standing there untill I was finished!!!



I know what you mean Brian! When I use the 'coordinate method' to locate and drill holes I go through some serious back pain. I have to stop after every hole and lean by back up against a nearby steel support beam, and try to massage some of it out before I can continue. I know, it sucks.

-MB


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well, thats enough playing for today. If I don't somehow manage to screw this up during the final steps, I think its going to be pretty nice. And it does add considerable weight to the flywheel.


----------



## crankshafter

Hi there Brian.
Nice work as allways.
I use a OS-carb. and Viton-ring. I buildt a carb. for my Hoglet-project and I tryed it on the Webster, I can tell you that the Webster runs better than with the OS-carb ;D
I have a project-log here at HMEM but the pics, are delited????? :'(
Here are some pics. as reqested :big:













Best Regards 
CS


----------



## crankshafter

Hi there Brian.
I forget to add. the video so here it is. Hope you enjoy. ;D





CS


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Crankshafter---That is really a beautifull engine that you have there!!! Did you record what number the Viton o-ring was, and can you tell me more about what an os carburetor is please.---Brian


----------



## black85vette

crankshafter  said:
			
		

> I use a OS-carb. and Viton-ring.



What size ring? How about the dimensions on the ring groove?

Great looking engine and box.


----------



## crankshafter

Hi again Brian.
I can't remember the sice of the O-ring, but it,s in metric. I converted the Webster to metric, you know it's easier here on this side of the pond ;D.
But I do remember I had to stretch the O-ring a little to have it fit right. After some hours runtime on it I still have the same good compression. But you have to have a near polished bore in the cyl. or else I think it will wear out the o-ring after a while me-think :shrug:
I will have a look at the OS-carb. to morrow and let you know.What I am certain of is that it is a barrel-type with a airblead port for easier adj. of the idlingspeed, I think you can use any carb. of this constructsion as long as it have the right barrel-bore, I will messure the bore to morrow. To be honest my good neighbor who is running RC-plains gave it to me so I I'm not sure what the OS parts no. is. 
             Until tomorrow......
Best regards
CS


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I will find time this week to get the info on the o-ring and the groove dimensions and post them here.---Brian


----------



## Captain Jerry

Brian

I sympathize with the back pain. I've had back problems for most of my life and the worst thing is standing in a slight bend. So all my tools are mounted for working while sitting on a chair. The only time I need to stand and bend is when actually running the lathe but I can do most of the setup while sitting. It may be an old man thing and it sounds wimpy but I can spend 8 hour days in the shop with no pain.

You have suggested this flywheel design before so I am happy to see you build it. It answers a lot of things like weight distribution, cost, and bling. Like you, I am rotab-less, so I would have to do it by the numbers. I have wondered if it would be accurate enough to maintain balance. Let us know about that after you get it finished.

Jerry


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Will do, Jerry. since I used the table dials to locate all the holes using ordinate dimensions as I moved the table, it should be very very close.


----------



## crankshafter

Hi Brian.
I've been in the cave and "hide and seek" and try to find The spare Vitonring have/had : but no luck if I had find it I cold have put it in a envelope and sent it to you, no problem.
I measured the throtlebore in the carb. barrel 4.3mm or .171" 
OS is a manufacturer of RC engines located in Japan me think.
Here is the carb. I use on my Webster. Right at my thumb you see a small control-valve on the fuel-line. I made it for to prevent blow-back in the fuel-line/ tank it works very well and I will recommend you to make one. I used a 3 mm bearring- ball.
Had a talk with the Webster to night and we agreed to have a refuel and make some noise. Well, fired at first attempt :big:  Fun? YES!




last pic. showing an other OS I have but with larger throtle-bore.




Hope it helps a little Brian.
Regards CS


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well Dang!!! I'm impressed!!!


----------



## black85vette

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Well Dang!!! I'm impressed!!!



Yeah. Me too! 

Nice fit on the inserts and they look really good.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Crankshafter---thanks for the pictures. I will find out some more about carburetors when I get that far.---Brian


----------



## Lew_Merrick_PE

crankshafter  said:
			
		

> But I do remember I had to stretch the O-ring a little to have it fit right. After some hours runtime on it I still have the same good compression. But you have to have a near polished bore in the cyl. or else I think it will wear out the o-ring after a while me-think :shrug:



If you are interested, I have a rather significant document on the design of o-ring glands (grooves) posted at http://www.scribd.com/Lew Merrick. I was on the team that wrote the "O-Ring Seal Design" section of the 1976 edition of the SAE Handbook.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Lew--Thank you very much for the link. A lot of great information there.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

After a very busy week, I finally squeezed in an afternoon of "playtime" in my little shop ---and after many strange and wonderfull set-ups----


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I coaxed a rocker arm for my Webster out of a piece of brass bar. The design is different than the original, because the original was made from steel. I wanted to use brass, so I "added" a bit of material near the center where the shoulder bolt goes through,---Also, the fact that I have a couple of 1/4" shoulder bolts left over from a previous job had a bit to do with influencing my decision---


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Like this---


----------



## mocaquita

Hi,
Looks like you're coming along on your beautiful Webster quite nicely! I was looking at your picture of the rocker arm being machined and I think I see an endmill being used in a drill chuck. Bear in mind drill chucks are designed for movement in the Z axis only. No side movements for these. If you're side milling, the chuck can work its way off the taper and fall off. A real safety issue to be aware of, no one likes a loose spinning chuck. You'll have strength and runout issues in a drill chuck also. Not trying to be a jerk here, just wanted you to be aware.

Dave


----------



## cfellows

Looks real good, Brian. I always look forward to seeing your progress!

Chuck


----------



## black85vette

Keeping an eye on the progress. Like how you use the illustrations to show your plans.


----------



## Longboy

Looking good for Webster up in Canada there Brian. You're gonna like the Viton piston ring setup. Simply it works and wears well. Model engine carbs do the job here too. For the Webster, a .10 -.15 engine size is right. I have an OS .10 carb and I have just gotten a Traxxis .15 buggy carb I wanna try from Ebay as a vender had brand new carbs on auction I got with shipping for less than $20. Tower Hobby had new OS carbs the right size around $30 plus ship. Cruise the Ebay listings for your carb needs. On my avatar photo is my "Camel" Stirling engine. The 2.25 in. dia aluminum flywheel is spoked with #10 flat slotted brass machine screws file finished flush with the flywheel outer diameter. Different purpose than your brass slug enhanced flywheel but the same contrast in materials. 8)  Dave.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

DaveB  said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Looks like you're coming along on your beautiful Webster quite nicely! I was looking at your picture of the rocker arm being machined and I think I see an endmill being used in a drill chuck. Bear in mind drill chucks are designed for movement in the Z axis only. No side movements for these. If you're side milling, the chuck can work its way off the taper and fall off. A real safety issue to be aware of, no one likes a loose spinning chuck. You'll have strength and runout issues in a drill chuck also. Not trying to be a jerk here, just wanted you to be aware.
> 
> Dave



Dave B---Thanks for your concern. I am aware of that safety issue, and when using a larger end mill in steel I mount the cutting tool in a proper sleeve and draw bar set-up. For light cuts in brass or aluminum with a small cutter, I generally just mount the cutter in the chuck. I wouldn't go so far as to recomend the practice to others, but it works for me.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Longboy---Do you have the part number for the Vitin o-ring, size information, or any info about the size of groove required in the piston?


----------



## Brian Rupnow

So here we are, with all the "Large Bits" finished and trial assembled. I haven't bought a spark-plug tap yet, and there are a couple of small oil holes missing, but for all intents and purposes, the big pieces are finished. I'm just about to start on the "fIddly bits" which are the valves and valve housings.--And I'm getting close to the time when I have to order the gears and get this piston ring business sorted out.


----------



## cfellows

Ah, yes, now you're getting to the parts that always give me the most trouble... the fiddley bits! But I'm sure you'll hammer it out much quicker than I would.

Chuck


----------



## bearcar1

I've been enjoying the journey so far Brian. That flywheel will set your Webster apart from the crowd as they say. Carry on old boy!! :big:

BC1
Jim


----------



## black85vette

Nice to see the big parts all together. Starts to give a sense of progress. Anxious to see your build of the valve assembly. I have yet to do one like that. Take lots of pics.  stickpoke


----------



## crankshafter

Hi
This is going to be a real runner when it's finish. Really nice work Brian.
I see you are using bronze- bearings at the main-shafts as per plans. I used roller-bearrings. Are you going to use point ignition? If you are, I suggest you to mount the points on a separate disc w/radial slots for easy adjustment of the ignition timing.
If I going to build( def. I will :big I will do it that way.
 If it's not clear, I will try to make a C.O Cad.
CS


----------



## Longboy

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Longboy---Do you have the part number for the Vitin o-ring, size information, or any info about the size of groove required in the piston?


........O-rings are sold by size rather than pt.# in hardware stores. This is true for metric dimensioned rings also. The cyl. bore is 7/8th (per plan) so the correct size is 7/8 outer 3/4 inner 1/16th o-ring. A P1 cutoff tool is 1/16 in width and you just need a few .000 more height. The ring has to float in the groove so the height and depth of the groove will be greater than the ring size. The test is gripping the piston and to rotate with your fingers a lubed (WD40) ring around the groove for correct groove height. For the depth cut the ring does not protrude the outer piston diameter. The test is to install the lubed ring onto the piston and insert into the bore. If it doesn't go, increase your depth cut 2-4 thousandths at a time till it moves into the cylinder . If it goes in but shudders moving piston up and down the bore your close. The ring is dragging or rolling in the bore. Another few thousandths depth cut will get you there! You may want to use a round stock slug with just a practice groove to set your dimensions with the cyl. bore then tranfer to your finished piston. Let me know how it worked out !   Dave.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I just got the following information form Hercules o-ring. For a reciprocating seal, such as you have with a piston in a cylinder, the O-ring size is dictated by the bore of the cylinder. Thus, a 0.875" bore will take a 7/8" o-ring. O-ring sizes are "Nominal"---this means that a 1/16" o-ring is actually 0.070" in cross section. I was told to make the ring groove in the piston .055" to .057" deep---this will leave the outer diameter of the o-ring sticking out past the side of the piston by 0.013 to 0.015", radially, so the actual outer diameter of the o-ring will now be 0.901" to 0.905" diameter. I was told to make the ring groove 0.095" wide, so that means there will be 0.025" total side clearance on the o-ring. I'm not sure I trust this information, as the person I spoke to didn't seem too sure himself, and I don't want to ruin the piston by machining the wrong size groove. I think I will now talk to a different o-ring mfgr. and get their opinion.


----------



## cfellows

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> I just got the following information form Hercules o-ring. For a reciprocating seal, such as you have with a piston in a cylinder, the O-ring size is dictated by the bore of the cylinder. Thus, a 0.875" bore will take a 7/8" o-ring. O-ring sizes are "Nominal"---this means that a 1/16" o-ring is actually 0.070" in cross section. I was told to make the ring groove in the piston .055" to .057" deep---this will leave the outer diameter of the o-ring sticking out past the side of the piston by 0.013 to 0.015", radially, so the actual outer diameter of the o-ring will now be 0.901" to 0.905" diameter. I was told to make the ring groove 0.095" wide, so that means there will be 0.025" total side clearance on the o-ring. I'm not sure I trust this information, as the person I spoke to didn't seem too sure himself, and I don't want to ruin the piston by machining the wrong size groove. I think I will now talk to a different o-ring mfgr. and get their opinion.



Brian, this kind of agrees with what I've heard before. I believe the width of the o-ring groove should only be .006" - .010" wider than the o-ring. And, I believe the depth of the groove should be .004" - .006" shallower than the thickness of the o-ring. That's the way I've got my Plumbing Parts engine set up and works fine. You'll likely have to chamfer the bottom of your cylinder bore slightly and use oil to get the piston w/o-ring into the cylinder. Those o-rings will shear of if there are any sharp edges.

Chuck

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Okay guys--Here is the "scoop". I went over and picked up two Viton O-rings (one for a spare), and they gave me a photocopy of the page that they based their information on. I chose a 1/16" cross section based on info posted by Longboy (Which in reality is actually 0.070"). So, based on the top line in the chart,--The groove depth should be .055" to .057" and the groove width should be 0.095". A Viton o-ring is good for temperatures up to 400 degrees F.You can see one of the o-rings I got, laying on the chart in the top right hand corner.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I also picked up a set of points and a condenser while I was out, and ordered an M10 x1 tap and an NGK CM6 sparkplug. I ordered the gears from W.M. Berg this morning.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

The points and condenser are a perfect fit on the engine, as per plans. The only thing I noticed is that a #10 screw is a very tight fit through the hole and slot "as provided" in the points----That was quickly remedied by running a 3/16" drill though the holes in the points.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Crankshafter---I understand your reasoning with putting the points on a seperate piece to enable "timining" the points, but first I will try it "as per plan".---I looked on the web link at all the other people around the word that have had success building and running the Webster as built "per plan" so I will try it that way first. If I find that point timing is an issue, I will add a seperate mounting disc later.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Progress was made in leaps and bounds today----I went over to my tooling supplier and picked up an M10 x 1 tap and a 9 mm drill, then over to Partsource to pick up the smallest sparkplug I've ever seen. (As recomended by the fellow who done the Webster plans I'm working from). Then home to make the ignition cam. That was the easy one. Then the exhaust cam---And I had absolutely no idea how to machine it. So---I made it up as I went along. First I turned a .712 diameter onto a peice of 3/4" mild steel out of my "parts" pile, then reamed a 3/8" hole in it while it was still in the lathe and then parted it off to 3/16" thick. I coated it with layout die, and after establishing a centerline on the face, I scribed a 9/32 radius and layed out the two tangent lines that lead up to the "lobe", and walked it over to my vertical belt sander and put two "flats" on it---then I was stuck!!! Thought hard for a while, then went and scrounged up an old 5/8" shoulder bolt and turned it to 9/16" diameter, with a 3/8" diameter "spigot" on the end of it, then drilled and tapped a 1/4"-20 thread in the center of it. I slid the cam disc (which now had two flats on it) over the spigot and locked it in place with a 1/4" shcs. Now that I had a "handle" of the desired diameter, I took it back over to the belt sander and "hand bombed" the cam untill it matched the diameter of the "handle' everywhere except where the lobe was supposed to be. As my old electrical engineer used to say "TEFC"---Totally Effective, Fantastically Crude----but it worked like a charm. I'm sure this method would be frowned on by a machinist with more skill than myself, but Hey---it worked.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And here's a bigger picture of my "fixture"----The easy ignition cam is on the left---The difficult exhaust cam is on the right.


----------



## cfellows

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Crankshafter---I understand your reasoning with putting the points on a seperate piece to enable "timining" the points, but first I will try it "as per plan".---I looked on the web link at all the other people around the word that have had success building and running the Webster as built "per plan" so I will try it that way first. If I find that point timing is an issue, I will add a seperate mounting disc later.



Ignition timing is accomplished by turning the points cam on the crankshaft. I timed my Henry Ford engine by rotating the crankshaft to the point where I want it to fire, then loosen the setscrew holding the points cam and rotate it in the direction the engine turns until I feel the flat contact the rubber on the points.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Chuck. I had that one figured out. After 40 years of building, racing, and driving hotrods, ignition timing doesn't hold too many mysteries for me. ;D ;D---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

The following excerpt is copied directly from the Webster instuction sheet:

SHEET 8. The EXHAUST CAM started out as a .185" thk. disk of steel .712" in diameter with a reamed
.375" hole though it. It was offset turned on the lathe as described by Hamilton Upshur in Volume 79
of Strictly I.C. magazine. There are many other methods - use whatever you are comfortable with.
The plans call for hardenening of many parts, i.e. CAMSHAFT, CAM, ROCKER ARM, etc... This not
necessary, but doing so should result in a longer wearing engine.

Can anybody shed some light on this "offset turning" that the author is talking about?


----------



## cfellows

Brian,

I think what he's talking about is this. You need to be able to fix the cam blank onto a shaft so the blank won't turn on the shaft. Let's say you use a set screw. Then you chuck the shaft into the lathe using a 4 jaw chuck so the shaft is offset from center by a designated amount. The further off center you chuck the shaft, the faster the rise time you'll have on the finished cam. As a starting point, I would say 5/8" - 3/4" off center.

Now, assuming your cam is to have a 1/8" lift, you bring the lathe bit up and make several passes to cut away a 1/8" arc from the outer edge of the spinning cam. Then, you stop the lathe, loosen the set screw, and turn the blank maybe 3 - 5 degrees. Do not loosen the chuck holding the shaft. Retighten the set screw and make another pass with your tool bit at the same setting where you left it from the first pass.

Keep doing this until you go far enough around the blank the you form a near point where the end cut meets the first cut. That becomes the lobe of your cam.

You can also use this same process using a rotary table and a boring head on a mill. To see how I did this, look at response #52,little over half way down the page, in this post: 
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6352.135

Hope this helps...
Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Chuck---It looks a bit too involved for my current capabilities. I remember looking at it when you posted it originally, and being very impressed. Are/were you a machinist by trade, or are you a self taught hobbyist?


----------



## cfellows

Brian, I'm self taught, never had any training or mentoring. But I do read a lot!

There's actually nothing very complicated about the offset turning. None of the dimensions are really very critical.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

We have a ring groove!!! Despite my greatest care and attention, the groove ended up being .059 deep instead of the .053 to .055 that the spec sheet called for, and 0.90 wide, instead of the .095 in the spec sheet. However, Its not going back into the lathe now. I did break the top sharp corners of the groove with a file while the work was still in the lathe.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Here we have the Viton o-ring in place.--It went on with very little kicking and squirming----The leading edge of my piston had a fairly sharp edge that I didn't want to remove, so I put the ring into place from the rod end. You can see in the picture that a .090" wide gap gives some room for the o-ring to flatten down into when it is compressed into the bore of the cylinder 
(I hope)!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And here we have the piston (with o-ring) inserted into the cylinder. When I made the cylinder I machined a fairly decent "lead-in" angle on the end which is opposite the spark plug end, because I anticipated a fight getting the piston with a ring in place into the cylinder. (Remember here---I've been building hotrod engines all my life, and I have fought this "piston with rings into cylinder" war before.) I coated everything---piston, and cylinder with some real nasty, slimy chain oil (for my chainsaw), said a short prayer to the engine gods, and gave a push and a wiggle---and in it went. Mind you, its stiff.---Its damn stiff--but its in there, and it moves from end to end of the cylinder. I foresee a good run-in being required to loosen things up a bit before I ever go to run this engine, but thats what the good Lord made variable speed drills for !!   ---Also, you will see that I got the cylinder head tapped and the worlds smallest spark plug installed. (I tried the tap and tap drill out on a piece of scrap aluminum before using it on my cylinder head, and tried the sparkplug for fit in the scrap piece. I just HATE having to remake parts because I was a donkey and didn't check things first.


----------



## cfellows

Coming together real nice, Brian. Shoot, you'll have it running by the end of the week! 

By the way, is that chain saw oil good for general lubrication? I'm always looking for oil that will stick and not have to be refreshed all the time.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And here we have it---happening Now---The RUN IN!!!! everything is liberaly coated with oil, the drill is wailing away at about 3/4 of its top speed. I will leave it for an hour, checking about every 10 minutes to add more oil to everything. (I never said it wasn't messy.) and yes Chuck, chainsaw oil is formulated especially to cling to the chain and bar of a chainsaw while the saw is cutting down trees. It is slimey, slippery, and sticks like $hit to a wool blanket!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Damn---I just got crotch oiled!!!! Hint---Do not stand in front of open intake port and squirt oil down sparkplug hole!!!!!


----------



## crankshafter

Brian.
Lookin' great. th_wav
I just back from the cave, had to flip the Webster. Oh, oh, how sweat it sound when its fires and run ;D Think I have to make a big brother of the engine. One day......
Brian now it's time for you to make the rest of the parts. Just all the tiny small, time consuming ones :big:
But you have the skills and guts, so no problem. 

CS


----------



## black85vette

Great progress. In the home stretch now!  woohoo1


----------



## radfordc

I hope you get that o-ring loosened up. On my engine the o-ring started out tight and never did get better. I finally had to cut the groove deeper. Now the o-ring slides up and down lik'a butta! And the compression is very good, too.

Charlie


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Oh Oh---I have my W.M. Berg catalogue out here, and I notice that the 24 tooth gear specified by the man who made the plans has a 0.25" bore, yet it has to fit on a 5/16" dia. crankshaft. I don't see it mentioned in the plans that the bore has to be opened up to 5/16", but it will have to be to fit. Did anyone else notice that?


----------



## bearcar1

I'm rooting for you Brian, this is quite interesting and to see/hear about the trials and tribulations you encounter has made the journey that much more pleasing. Now it's not that I enjoy seeing anyone fail, it is just that by paying attention to what others have done, I learn little tricks of how to do certain things and what doesn't end well. You'll be firing this one off before the weekend-ish or close thereafter. 


BC1
Jim


----------



## tmuir

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Damn---I just got crotch oiled!!!! Hint---Do not stand in front of open intake port and squirt oil down sparkplug hole!!!!!



 :big:

I did a similar thing on my watch makers lathe a while back.
Stripped it down, oiled all the bearings, put it back together and stood in front of it when I started it up.
That white T shirt went from being a 'good shirt' to a 'workshop shirt' :big:


----------



## Longboy

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Oh Oh---I have my W.M. Berg catalogue out here, and I notice that the 24 tooth gear specified by the man who made the plans has a 0.25" bore, yet it has to fit on a 5/16" dia. crankshaft. I don't see it mentioned in the plans that the bore has to be opened up to 5/16", but it will have to be to fit. Did anyone else notice that?


 Of course Brian! It was not an issue, didn't even drill the hub but used the more uncommon "radical press fit" with a lot of grunt behind the effort to get it on the axle.  I'm learning alot making these motors!   Dave.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Dave---Aint no way in Hell you pressed a hub with a 1/4" bore onto a 5/16" axle!!! RadfordC--You may very well be right. Even after running for an hour, the piston is very tight moving in the bore of the cylinder.


----------



## Longboy

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Dave---Aint no way in Hell you pressed a hub with a 1/4" bore onto a 5/16" axle!!! RadfordC--You may very well be right. Even after running for an hour, the piston is very tight moving in the bore of the cylinder.


.....Well it sounded like a cool 8) solution to just press fit........mussta came to me in a dream oh:  I did drill to 5/16th. ;D That 24T gear is probally not available with a 5/16 hole in the catalogue.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Dave---You're right. It is only available with a 1/4" bore. Ah well, no fear.--its made of stainless, not sintered metal, so I should be able to drill and ream it to 5/16".


----------



## Brian Rupnow

For this mornings offering, we have a brass valve body. These pieces are not very big, and I changed the fasteners from #2-56 to #5-40, so it gets pretty tight. You will notice that I have turned the heads on the #5 shcs down so they don't hang over the edge. ;D ;D Maybe later this weekend I will build the valve guides that install in the block.


----------



## crankshafter

Brian.
Oh isn't she nice. ;D
That clean alu/brass is just beautiful.
CS


----------



## SAM in LA

Brian,

What a clean engine.

Looks like you are getting a break from the rain/snow.

Thanks for posting, I really enjoy reading along with your builds.

SAM


----------



## Brian Rupnow

No, I don't think I'll do Cookstown again. I wanted to try it once and see how it went, but really, there wasn't that much interest shown in the little engines I have. Like many other things, I had to try attending a show and exhibiting at least one time, but I don't think I would do it again.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> Brian,
> 
> What a clean engine.
> 
> Looks like you are getting a break from the rain/snow.
> 
> Thanks for posting, I really enjoy reading along with your builds.
> 
> SAM



Sam--Its a gorgeous day here today. Snow is all gone, temp. is about 77F with beautifull sunshine. Wife and I spent 2 hours setting out on our back deck just enjoying the first real warm day we've had.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Time for a (probably dumb) question. How do I go about putting a 45 degree valve seat in the bottom of a 0.219" bore, as called for on the Webster drawings? All I can think of at the moment is to regrind a drill to a 90 degree point (and I would have to do that by eye, which is pretty 'hit or miss"---or to buy a 90 degree countersink IF I can get one small enough to fit into a 0.219" hole. I don't want to get into a whole lot of specialized tool building here, but right now I'm kind of pooched for ideas.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Belay that last question----It really was dumb!!! I was just studying the drawing of the valve, and I see the valve head is 0.25" diameter.---Doesn't fit into 0.219 dia. hole ---HUH---Looked at drawing again---45 degree angle is at surface, not down in the bottom of the hole.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything!!! Here is the perfect example, laying on an overturned tin can, basking under the glow of a heat light. The valve guide without the taper on it was done first. I started with a piece of 1/2" brass round rod, and thought---The first diameter I turn should be .312, to fit through the valve body--that way I can keep checking for fit, untill its perfect---and I did. Then I stepped it to 3/8" diameter, and was able to try it for fit also in the valve body counterbore.---untill it was a perfect fit. Then I drilled and reamed a 0.094" dia hole 1" deep in the end of the rod while it was still in the lathe. About then, The light came on, and I realized that if I but the taper on it, I wouldn't have anything to hold onto when I cut it off and flipped it around in the chuck to put in the counterbore and the 45 degree valve seat.---So I didn't put the taper on it. Then after putting in the conterbore and the valve seat, I realized I had no way to hang onto it to machine the taper on it.---So---right now its loctited to a piece of .094" cold rolled rod---Hopefully I will be able to put the rod in the chuck and finish machining the taper on the outside of the brass, then knock the rod out.-----So, why is the one with the taper there also----Well, when I machined it, I used a different process that let me do all the machining steps in their correct sequence---but I couldn't try it for fit untill I parted it off the 1/2" rod.---And when I did,--SURPRISE--The part at the end of the taper isn't .312---its .315" diameter!! So it to is loctited to a piece of .094 cold rolled so I can chuck it up and turn .003 off the diameter so it will fit where its supposed to. I'm sure that the second one was at least CLOSER to the right way!!!


----------



## Brian Rupnow

And once again, good triumphs over evil----After setting up under the heat lamp for 15 minutes, I was able to mount the .094" rod in the lathe chuck, turn the appropriate taper on the o.d. of the guide, and save the day!!! (What???-Doesn't everybody use their cut off tool for turning??)


----------



## SAM in LA

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything!!! Here is the perfect example, laying on an overturned tin can, basking under the glow of a heat light.


Brian, Your problem is obvious. Your Fruit can has a foreign language on it.

SAM
U. S. of A.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Vive Le Quebec Libre---Or something like that----


----------



## Brian Rupnow

All's well that ends well----Maybe tomorrow I'll get a piece of 1/4" stainless and make some valves. Does anybody know---Can I cut stainless with HSS tooling? I haven't done that before.


----------



## Deanofid

Brian, try some 416. 
If you can sharpen a tool well, meaning really sharp, you should do fine with HSS. 
Don't dally with stainless steels. Once you start a cut, keep it going. If you pause during a cut and let the tool rub, it will have a tendency to work harden that spot. 416 and 303 are pretty decent to cut, though, and it you follow through smoothly with your cut, it won't give you any problems.

I'm glad your brass valve bits came out well. You must be living right, stacking a couple of three jaw chucks like that and not having run out give you fits.

Dean


----------



## lathe nut

Brian, just wanted to let you know that I have been looking, copy paste and not saying anything, guess I should have, I really enjoy your work attention to detail and the drawing, that part alone is so neat, that is what I call really expressing your self, want to thank you so much for the learning experience, I hope you get done before you take off on your trip, love the ride, thanks again for your hard work, Lathe Nut


----------



## Brian Rupnow

My local supplier only has 304 stainless round stock. I think I will make the valves from mild steel I have lots of 1/4" cold rolled in stock. Anybody see a problem with that?


----------



## cfellows

Brian,

I've never used mild steel, but have used drill rod for the valves on my IC engines. I wouldn't be afraid to use mild steel. Those valves are never going to get real hot and there should be enough oil to keep things from rusting.

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Chuck---Mild steel it is!!! Pretty straightforeward turning, but 1" is a lot of "stick-out" unsupported from the chuck. Very light cuts, and going back over 5 or 6 times without changing the depth of cut to take the material out of the free end which wants to deflect away from the cutter. I set my micrometer for .094 and locked it, and just kept taking miniscule cuts untill it fitted over the valve stem. When you get that small in diameter, you can't go by the feed dials because of the deflection in the part, so you just keep advancing half a graduation at a time and then stop and measure, untill you get to where you need to be. Then swing the compound rest around to 45 degrees to do the tapered bit.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

What I really like about this is that you can then cut the shanks as long as you want, to be used as a "handle" when lapping the valve to the seat with compound. Then after lapping to an air tight seal, I can trim the valves to the correct length. I may even just use the bandsaw for that, because I don't want to mess up the valve stems by chucking them in my lathe, and no one will see the head of the valve after assembly anyways.


----------



## Kermit

If you wanted to try it. You could put a case hardened surface on those steel pieces. 



Back to lurking in the shadows, 
Kermit


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Kermit  said:
			
		

> If you wanted to try it. You could put a case hardened surface on those steel pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> Back to lurking in the shadows,
> Kermit



Kermit--Without investing in a heat treat oven and a batch of Casenite, its not likely to happen. If I thought it was necessary to have then hardened, I could have made then from 01 or A2 or M2. For a cheap little "show and tell" project that only gets run 10 minutes at a time, I don't think its worth the investment. I think I remember at one time learning that on parts as small as these valves that its very difficult to case harden them---The part is so small that the case hardening goes all the way through, without leaving an unhardened center, and as a consequence, the parts become very brittle, almost like glass.


----------



## Brian Rupnow




----------



## cfellows

Sounds like he was standing on the flywheel (and cam gear and valve assembly) side of the engine when he wrote the instructions. That's where I would have been...

Also, most videos I've seen of the Webster running show it running counter clockwise when viewed from the Flywheel side. Easier to start that way...

Chuck


----------



## Longboy

That's it Brian, the Webster runs clockwise to this illustration for the reason Chuck gave. Finger starting from top of flywheel to the rear of engine.          Dave.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Todays offering is pretty meager---a pair of "valve spring keeper plates". This is about as small a part as I ever really want to make, at 1/4" diameter x 3/32" long. And if you look at the background, you will see that even I, the Solidworks Guru will occasionally resort to Crap-O-Cad. (Although I'm not anywhere close to the talent exhibited by some of the other members on this board!!!)


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Chuck and Longboy---Thank you for your answers. Other than the carburetor adapter and the various grease cups, I'm starting to run out of pieces to make. My gears are on order, but the person I spoke to in Canada who reps for Berg said to expect a 2 to 3 week delivery. Hopefully, that will give me lots of time to finish everything else before they show up. Chuck, you're doing some marvelous work with your carburetor research. I think I will probably buy a carb when the time comes, unless you get your prototype to work out the way you are happy with it. Then I might "borrow" your design.


----------



## cfellows

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Chuck and Longboy---Thank you for your answers. Other than the carburetor adapter and the various grease cups, I'm starting to run out of pieces to make. My gears are on order, but the person I spoke to in Canada who reps for Berg said to expect a 2 to 3 week delivery. Hopefully, that will give me lots of time to finish everything else before they show up. Chuck, you're doing some marvelous work with your carburetor research. I think I will probably buy a carb when the time comes, unless you get your prototype to work out the way you are happy with it. Then I might "borrow" your design.



Brian, you and others on the board are more than welcome to my designs. I'm still thrashing about with different ideas. I'm going to try a vapor fuel tank with a larger surface area to see if I can make the mixture richer. I'm also going to try some other carb stuff, including gbritnell's design. I'm not giving up until I get that plumbing engine running like a clock!

Chuck


----------



## black85vette

Brian and Chuck;

Still following along and appreciate all the stuff you guys put into your posts. It is going to make my build much less confusing.

That is all. Carry on.


----------



## cfellows

Brian,

I bored the venturi on my carb out to 5/32" today and tried out the carb again. It's less sensitive now and seems to run pretty consistently now. I'll test it some more tomorrow and let you know how it looks.

I don't believe that I'm going to need an air bleed for the idle. Well let you know after more testing. There also doesn't seem to be any tendency for the throttle barrel to come out, even though I don't have anything holding it in. I may still look at installing some kind of idle stop. Right now the barrel is free to turn completely around.

By they way, have you identified a carburetor to buy if it comes to that? Where would you get it?

Thx...
Chuck


----------



## metalmad

Hi Brian
this may be to little to late to help but I turned the valves for mine from the bolts out of concrete fastners, u know the type with a hard bolt that pulls up into a tube.
anyway looking great Mate 
Cheers Pete.


----------



## lathe nut

Looking great Brain, getting close to the end, don't let that yellow car take you away before you finish, can't Waite to see it run, thanks again for sharing knowledge and how to's with the pictures, Lathe Nut


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Aha---Now if I only had some music wire---I went to Partsource today and bought the smallest can of fine valve grinding compound I could buy, and I expect I have enough left over to do 6000 more small engines like this!!! The "handles" left on the valves worked really great to hang onto while I was lapping the valves and seats, and it really did make a big difference in how well the valves seal (As determined by puckered lips blowing though passages while opening and closing valves before and after.) I drilled the 0.040" cross holes in the valve stems without mishap (Which kind of amazed me, because I don't think I ever drilled a hole that small in anything before.), then cut the "handles off with the bandsaw and dressed the head of the cut off valve on my 1" HockShop belt sander.---Where do you go to buy 1" of music wire???


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Chuck---I haven't got the faintest darned idea about where to buy a carb. I've been putting it off, but from what I gather, I need to start with a hobby shop that sells radio controlled airoplanes or tether cars, or model race boats. When I get some information, I will post about it here.


----------



## IronHorse

I was at Pinnacle Hobby store in Markham last week and I saw they sell all kinds of R/C carbs starting at $20. I am sure there are some R/C hobby stores up in your area.


IronHorse


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Thanks Iron Horse---I'll give them a call.---Brian


----------



## tel

> -Where do you go to buy 1" of music wire???



Your friendly local K&S stockist should have it or, oddly enough, a _*music store *_- guitar strings are made of the stuff. Don't think you will buy 1" tho'


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I just checked my invoice from this morning when I bought the 0.040" drills. At 77 cents each, think I'll just sacrifice one of them. There is enough unfluted shank to make the two pieces I need to hold the "Keepers" in place.


----------



## radfordc

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Chuck---I haven't got the faintest darned idea about where to buy a carb.



E-bay!


----------



## crankshafter

Hi Brian.
Have a look here http://www.towerhobbies.com you will find what you need and much more ;D
CS


----------



## Longboy

........then look here!  http://toys.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_n...ries&_odkw=carburetor+.10&_osacat=2562&bkBtn=      Dave.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Holy Cow!!! Information overload. Its not so much a matter of not knowing where to buy a carburetor, as not knowing what carburetor to buy. Jeez---There are a hundred different carbs available, and they are all different. I did manage to get my brass exhaust pipe finished today. I was just heading out to the garage with the exhaust pipe and the bottom valve housing in one hand, and the silver solder and flux in the other, when the engine Gods whispered to me that "Hey---the valve guide is loctited into that housing!!!" Silver soldering it would have really messed up my day, do I loctited the exhaust pipe in place too. I have the gears on order, and I have the grease and oil cups on order, so I guess I will look at the fuel tank next.


----------



## cfellows

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Holy Cow!!! Information overload. Its not so much a matter of not knowing where to buy a carburetor, as not knowing what carburetor to buy. Jeez---There are a hundred different carbs available, and they are all different. ...



You got that right, Brian. Very confusing. And most of them are designed to run on Nitro, not gasoline or Coleman Fuel. And they are designed for high speed, 2 stroke engines. Would they even work on a Webster???

Longboy, what does the .15 signify on all these carburetors? Also, any idea what the venturi bore on them would be?

Edit... I see the first Traxxas has a bore of 6mm, almost 1/4". Do you think there is anything smaller?

Chuck


----------



## radfordc

cfellows  said:
			
		

> You got that right, Brian. Very confusing. And most of them are designed to run on Nitro, not gasoline or Coleman Fuel. And they are designed for high speed, 2 stroke engines. Would they even work on a Webster???
> 
> Longboy, what does the .15 signify on all these carburetors? Also, any idea what the venturi bore on them would be?
> 
> Edit... I see the first Traxxas has a bore of 6mm, almost 1/4". Do you think there is anything smaller?
> 
> Chuck



I used an old Perry carb on my Webster. It was originally off of a .61 cubic inch engine. The .15 refers to a .15 cubic inch engine. An old OS .10 to .19 carb should work well.

Charlie


----------



## Longboy

cfellows  said:
			
		

> You got that right, Brian. Very confusing. And most of them are designed to run on Nitro, not gasoline or Coleman Fuel. And they are designed for high speed, 2 stroke engines. Would they even work on a Webster???
> 
> Longboy, what does the .15 signify on all these carburetors? Also, any idea what the venturi bore on them would be?
> 
> Edit... I see the first Traxxas has a bore of 6mm, almost 1/4". Do you think there is anything smaller?
> 
> Chuck


 Like Charlie said the fractional number of the carb refers to engine size. Its working fine on My Webster. It only uses about 1/3 of throttle travel from idle to 3000 RPM. A good experiment would be to get some Ace Hardware Denatured Alky or some methanol from the drag strip and see if this carb would needle out enough to use this fuel. As for smaller carbs the answer is a definite maby. Smaller carbs would likly be part of the crankcase casting with an intergrated needle. I wouldn't get lost on their venturi diameters but on something like your low RPM Henry Ford this 6mm Traxxis would be more ideal with greater range of throttle movement if it is a smaller size than my .15 carb. Maby ask Gbritnell for his insight!               





			
				Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> .............when the engine Gods whispered to me that "Hey---the valve guide is loctited into that housing!!!" Silver soldering it would have really messed up my day, do I loctited the exhaust pipe in place too...........


 I epoxied the exhaust pipe and valve guides to valve bock. Exhaust seal has not failed in the heated environment.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

IronHorse  said:
			
		

> I was at Pinnacle Hobby store in Markham last week and I saw they sell all kinds of R/C carbs starting at $20. I am sure there are some R/C hobby stores up in your area.
> 
> 
> IronHorse



Iron Horse---I was in Toronto today on business. I drove out to Pinacle in Markham. They do NOT stock any carburetors. They have parts for a wide array of carbs, but no complete carbs at all, and never have had. They will order them for you, if you appear in person and have your credit card with you, but will not take orders by credit card over the phone.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

According to my math, the Webster displaces 0.75 cubic inches. Thats a 7/8" bore and a 1.25" stroke. And for those of us who work in cubic centimeters, thats about 12.3cc The Traxxis .15 carb refers to the engine size this carburetor is intended to be used on. I am assuming thats .15 cubic inches, but I'm not sure. At any rate, there seems to be a large disparity between .15 and .75 cubic inch engine displacement. I tried to talk to the owner at Pinacle about my engine, but got the distinct impression that although he could order any carb matched to any specific "kit", he was even more lost than I am about a carb size for a home built engine.


----------



## cobra428

Brian,
You are correct .15ci engine. I would go to Tower recomended earlier. Whole carbs in every size. Search OS carb

Tony


----------



## cobra428

The perfect.75ci carb

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSCL0&P=7

Tony


----------



## cobra428

Another .75ci but 4 stroke and might be a little less expensive

http://www.tiger.com.tw/product/9802.html

These are 2 cyc

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWFK1&P=ML#

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFV76&P=ML
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=perry+<B>carb</B>uretors


Tony


----------



## IronHorse

That's funny about Pinnacle, I was in line waiting to pay for some brass stock and the guy behind me had a carb in his hand. I asked where he got it and he pointed to a rack on the wall. I asked the salesman about them and he said there are many available $20 and up.

Oh well
IronHorse


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Tony---Thanks. I'm not questioning your credentials in any way.-(I seen your post in the other carburetor thread.) However--If thats the perfect 0.75" carburetor, why are people like Longboy getting what appears to be really good results with a carb intended for a 0.15 cu. inch displacement engine? And why do I keep seeing references made to "small venturi" as in 0.25" diameter barrels. This is all making me moderately crazy!!! The model aeroplane engines are all running nitro/methane blends with lubricating oil in the fuel, and they are all two strokes. The webster, by comparison is a 4 stroke engine running Coleman lantern fuel (I expect Naptha.) with external lubrication, and revving at much lower speeds. Damn---So many choices----Brian


----------



## cobra428

Hi Brian,
Maybe due to the slower rpm. I left more locations of carbs. Perry carbs are good and inexpensive. 

My Coles small h/m justs has 1 bore x 1.25 stroke 4cyc. Carb is a 1/4 bore in a 5/16 hex stock needle and seat. It runs pretty good. Well at least I think. 

Good luck with your decision

Tony


----------



## Brian Rupnow

After much indecision and tooth gnashing, I went back and reread the instuctions provided by the man who designed the Webster engine. He provides plans for a simple carburetor, then tells everyone to "Not even bother" building it. He recomends a small bore carburetor for a .12 to .15 cubic inch engine, which fits right in with Longboys report of how good that carb size works on his Webster. The intake port size on the Webster valve body is only 3/16" in diameter, so I think it is reasonable to assume that any carb with a barrel larger than that is going to be somewhat redundant. So, today I will order a TRA4033 Traxxas carburetor from a local hobby shop in Barrie. They cost about $40 American. I will post and do a write up on this carb when it shows up here. Thanks to everyone who offered advice and help on this issue.---Brian


----------



## black85vette

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Thanks to everyone who offered advice and help on this issue.---Brian



...and thanks to you for doing the tooth gnashing and research for the rest of us. :bow:


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Does anybody know---Does the fuel tank outlet have to set higher than the Traxxas carb for a gravity flow to the carburetor, or will the engine vacuum draw the fuel up to the carburetor. I'm figuring out a fuel tank, and would like to know.----Brian


----------



## cobra428

Brian,
Even though that's a car carb, it's pretty much the same as an airplane one. Standard practice in unpressurized systems is to set the top of the tank level with the needle valve of the carb.

Higher = when you fill up you'll drip fuel from the carb.

Lower = hard start and inconsistent runs

This is the way it has been done since the 1920's in model aircraft.
I know this from reading my dad's model airplane magazines from that time as a kid
(sure wish I still had them to thumb throuh now and again)

Tony


----------



## bearcar1

I'm not certain if this answers your question to its fullest extent but in my experience of RC planes building, the center line of the fuel tank was placed as close as possible in-line with the carburetor spraybar (needle valve) for proper operation and as close as physically possible as well. Most of the tanks were pressurized from a tap taken from the muffler to supply a positive pressure to the system. This was not 100% pressure but merely bypass, enough to pressurize the tank during operation. If the tank were placed too low there was a good chance the venturi vacuum would not be enough to draw fuel out of the tank. If the tank were set too high, fuel would be gravity feed into the carb for the duration of time until the fuel level dropped down far enough to correct the problem. This condition would also cause erratic mixture adjustments during flight. I would recommend a tank installed either with the center of the tank in-line with the needle valve or just slightly lower Good luck Brian, and I look forward to seeing your Webster run.

BC1
Jim


----------



## Paulsv

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Does anybody know---Does the fuel tank outlet have to set higher than the Traxxas carb for a gravity flow to the carburetor, or will the engine vacuum draw the fuel up to the carburetor. I'm figuring out a fuel tank, and would like to know.----Brian



The plans (Sheet 20, under "Starting and Running") say: 

I have a 1 oz. fuel tank set so that
the fuel level when full is about 1/4" lower than the needle valve.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Thanks fellows.---Brian


----------



## cobra428

Hi Brian,
Where did you get the plans for this engine? Free? I'm getting interested. Still want to finish my V8 and radial but you can never have to many plans ;D

Tony


----------



## chuck foster

try here tony  http://home.comcast.net/~webster_engines/  bottom of the page in the left hand corner.

chuck


----------



## cobra428

Thanks Chuck,
I'll have to look when I get home. Work computer is blocked from that site.

Tony


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Today I had one of those rather disgusting days, where I accomplished absolutely nothing. For starters, I have ran out of real work. (However, I've had a good run of work ever since the year started.) Secondly, I've been sick all day. One of those nasty flue like things---dizzy head, wobbly legs, off my feed. I tried to get started on the Webster fuel tank, but immediately blew the last two fuses I have for my CT129 mill. (These mills are somewhat underpowered, and are prone to blowing fuses, but I guess thats better than stripping gears). I went on a scavenger hunt in my storage room and did unearth a beautifull 24" length of 1" o.d. electropolished brass tube with 1/16" wall. In its former life it was a halogen floor lamp, but it had quit working and went into that storage area about 6 years ago---I was going to "fix it" someday, but now it will be reincarnated as a Webster fuel tank. I called a local hobby shop and ordered my Traxxas .15 carburetor---to the tune of $45.00 including taxes. Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day!!!


----------



## cobra428

Brian, get well soon. I know how you feel, Ive been out of comish for 3 weeks with a bad back.....it stinks

Chuck, downloaded the plans from the site you gave me earlier :bow:

Tony


----------



## Longboy

.........Better days tommorrow Brian, this should cheer you up! If you had any doubts about the performance of these carbs on the Webster. "http://static.photobucket.com/playe...albums/i16/itshim1/TraxxiscarbonWebster.flv">  Dave.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Dang!!! There sure are enough parts to a simple gas tank. (at least the way I build one-------


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well, that was a whole afternoons worth of work. Now if I can solder everything together tomorrow without messing it up, I'll be happy. You will notice that the 3/8" diameter "pillar" that holds the tank up has been left extra long. I won't know the exact length to make it untill after I have my carburetor mounted.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I have never soft soldered brass. I have however, soldered many copper tube plumbing joints with Kester solder paste, wire solder, and a propane torch. I always had good luck with copper, and never had problems with leaks. Is using soft solder on brass much different?----Brian


----------



## Shopguy

Brian
Soft soldering brass is about the same as copper. You should have no problems.
Ernie J


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Shopguy  said:
			
		

> Brian
> Soft soldering brass is about the same as copper. You should have no problems.
> Ernie J



Thanks Ernie.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well Sir!!!! That got really ugly, really quickly!!! Did not act at all like copper. I used lots of solder paste, everything was clean--all newly machined brass. Solder would melt and ball up but absolutely not flow and/or bond to the brass. I know the solder is good---Its off a roll I have used many times for soldering copper sucesfully. The solder paste I use is a yellow greasy looking compound that is old as the hills, but it works on copper quite well. When I seen the solder was not flowing or sticking, I tried putting more solder paste on while everything was hot---I have on occasion had to do that on a soldered copper joint to get the solder to flow and bond, but --no dice!!! Now I wish I had silver soldered the darn thing. I'm not sure what to do now. I think I will wash everything off as well as I can with laquer thinners to get rid of any remaining solder paste and chuck everything into a jar of picle juice I have been saving for an occasion like this. I don't know whether to try again tomorrow with the soft solder, or resort to the silver solder. Any help from someone with experience soldering brass would be much appreciated.


----------



## Ed T

Brian,
  Don't know what kind of soft solder you were using, but my overall impression from your picture is "too hot". I have soldered a lot of brass with ordinary plumbing solder, but not with the newer "safe stuff". Generally, it works OK. For most of my soft soldering for this kind of thing, I use Sta-Brite silver bearing solder and its companion flux. That means it has some silver in it, but it is not silver solder and goes on at a much lower temperature. It can be had at a good R/C hobby shop or, I'm sure, online from any number of places. It's made by Harris as I recall. The solder in combo with the flux is really great and you can soft solder things like a Razor blade to a piece of steel music wire. Works great!
  One thing I have found really helpful with this kind of soldering is to arrange it so that you can cut little bits of solder and place them at the various joints and then heat things up 'til it flows out. This way, you can better control the amount of solder in the joint and avoid getting too much which still works, but looks ugly. Anyhow, I think you'll need to clean everything up nice and pretty and try again. Good luck on the second go around.


----------



## rake60

My first attempt at soft soldering brass was building the burner for my Poppin engine.

As Ed points out the new "safe" solder can be difficult to work with. I can still get the old
lead base soft solder here at a local hardware store. That is what I used to this result.






After a little cleaning up it became this.






I certainly can not claim to have any experience at it.
That was the first time I ever tried it.

Rick


----------



## Maryak

Brian,

I would use killed spirits, ( diluted hydrochloric acid), as the flux. Use a kids watercolour paint brush brush for application and do it in a well ventilated area - the fumes will give your sinuses a good work out.

Hope this helps


Best Regards
Bob


----------



## shred

Did you flux separately or just in with the solder paste?

In my experience brass likes to oxidize more, requiring more pre-cleaning and more fluxing to avoid the usual burnt mess.


----------



## cfellows

Brian, I wonder if that brass tube maybe had a coat of lacquer or other finish on it to keep it from oxidizing or tarnishing?

Chuck.


----------



## Shopguy

Brian
I'm also wondering, as Chuck is, if there might not have been some sort of a coating on the brass tube. ??? I have always used 50/50 lead tin solder for brass. Lots of plumbing fittings are brass. Maryak's sugestion of using dilute hydrochoric acid as flux works very well. Buy it locally as muriatic acid. The fumes are not the most pleasant and don't leave the bottle near your steel tools, they'll rust.
Give it another go.
Regards
Ernie J


----------



## Longboy

Soldering is such a mess and for a high visibility component like a fuel tank clear epoxy can't be beat. Can't even mess this up.


----------



## Deanofid

Brian, there appears to be some kind of soot all over your parts. If you're using something other than an air/fuel torch, like propane or butane, then I think you have the flame set to too much fuel gas.

Brass is very easy to soft solder, and you shouldn't have any mess with this at all. You're having trouble with solder/flux, or heat here. Use a known (new) flux and 50/50 or 60/40 tin/lead, or a 96/4 tin/silver. You don't need to get it very hot for these solders, either.

The suggestion of lacquer on the tube is something to look into. All that soot tells me a tale, though.

Dean


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Fellows---I have to agree with you about the laquer. (Hindsight is always 20/20!!!) However, it wasn't all the fault of the laquer. I couldn't get the solder to stick to the other machined brass bits that I had just machined earlier in the day from stock brass, which I know had no laquer on it. I think it may have been more of a compatibility issue between the Kester soldering paste and the brass. I know the Kester works on copper, but it wasn't doing anything for the brass, in terms of getting the solder to adhere to it. I did clean everything up and soak it in a jar of pickle juice mixed half/half with plain white vinegar overnight. Today I will try something else---Just not sure what yet. Does soaking stuff in the pickle juice do away with the need to use a flux?


----------



## ksouers

Brian,
I'm another one in the "too hot" camp. I did some brass a couple months ago using electronics solder. Had a hard time of it until the part started to cool off, then it stuck very well. When it was too hot the solder wouldn't stick at all, kinda like dripping water on a hot skillet, it just balled up. I also used an ancient paste flux that belonged to my Dad, don't know the name but it has to be about 50 years old.


----------



## Captain Jerry

Brian

Soft solder works at around 500 deg F so it doesn't need much heat. The problem is that brass is such a good conductor, it is hard to get the heat where it is needed and keep it there. If you need to clamp the parts, keep the contact between the clamp and the work as small as possible so the heat doesn't migrate into the clamp. I have used pointy wire spring clamps made out of bailing wire. It doesn't need much pressure. I use a small butane torch for brass.  Use the smallest diameter wire solder that you can find or beat it thin with a hammer. Apply the heat to the heavier of two parts to be joined. Watch the flux, don't let it boil. Keep the solder out of the flame. When the flux melts, touch the solder to the joint. When the solder melts, it will be pulled into the joint, just like sweating copper joints. When the solder starts to flow, remove the heat but keep it close. You might have to add a little more heat to keep the solder wet while you flow it into a large joint. If the pieces are very heavy, I use two torches to bring the heat up to the melting point.

When I was much younger, I did some time as a refrigeration mechanic. Sweated a lot of copper that had to hold refrigerant under pressure. Brass is a lot easier because you don't have to do it in somebody's attic, surrounded by loose fiberglass insulation with the air temp approaching 110 deg F!

Jerry


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I have cleaned up all the parts (Which was a far bigger pain than making the parts).I don't think that soaking the parts in a jar of pickle juice overnight did much except to make the parts sticky and smell like pickles!!! I have since washed them in a pan of plain water to get any of the pickle juice off. I am waiting for the local hobby shops to open so that I can see if they have any offerings in the line of flux and solder specifically for brass. It did take a great deal of work to make these parts, and I don't want to ruin them. I was using an oxy acetylene flame for my first attempt, and my reasoning was that since the brass ends for the tank are 5/16" thick, it would talke a lot of heat to bring them up to temperature. Next time around I will use a smaller tip size and less heat.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Don't want to get my hopes up too high but----I just resoldered 3 of the joints with a MUCH lower flame. and so far everything is acting like it should.---Good flow out and good "melding" of the solder to the brass. I couldn't wait for the hobby stores to open at 10:00. so I am using exactly the same materials that I used yesterday, only with much less heat.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Now this, boys and girls, is far closer to the results I had hoped to achieve yesterday. A combination of removing all traces of clear laquer from the recycled brass tube, and a much lower heat setting on my torch. Same solder, same solder paste. As soon as it cools down enough I will give it the old underwater bubble leak test, and then start a clean-up.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well there!!!! I'm happy with this. Perhaps not show quality, but its soldered. its shiny, and it doesn't leak. I can live with that.---Brian


----------



## SAM in LA

Brian,

Sounds like your tank meets all of the specifications.

The customer will gladly pay the invoice.

 :big:

SAM


----------



## ariz

and the knurling is perfect too


----------



## Brian Rupnow

ariz  said:
			
		

> and the knurling is perfect too




Ariz---Thats funny!!! ;D ;D---Every time I use that knurling tool, I never know what to expect. I see so many threads on here and on other machinists boards about people experiencing diificulties with knurling, and trying to calculate diameters and circumferances related to the pitch of thier knurling pattern. I just position one knurler roll above the part, one below, tighten up the squeeze nut on the arms, put the lathe into the lowest gear possible, say a short prayer to the machining Gods and turn on the lathe. If the pattern looks a bit shallow, I just tighten the nut a little more as the lathe is running. Thus far all my "knurls" have been outstanding.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Nice posts on the soldering adventure. I've not done any soldering yet and pictures are a big help. Thanks.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Zee--I'm not sure what happened there, but I think the likeliest thing is that I had a stupid attack!!! I've been soldering things for years, with at least moderate success. Yesterdays fiasco was partly the fact that I never thought of the tube from my halogen lamp as being laquer coated. and mainly because of too hot a torch setting. I should have known better. If somebody takes some good from these posts, then I am very pleased. Soldering is not a terribly difficult thing, but like all things you have to THINK a bit before you pick up the tools.----Brian


----------



## rake60

Looks good from here Brian. Thm:

Nicely done.

Rick


----------



## ksouers

Glad it worked out, Brian. It looks just fine from here.


----------



## radfordc

Brian, is pickle juice a difference way of "pickling" soldered parts? The pickle solution I've read about is citric acid.

Charlie


----------



## Brian Rupnow

radfordc  said:
			
		

> Brian, is pickle juice a difference way of "pickling" soldered parts? The pickle solution I've read about is citric acid.
> 
> Charlie



Charlie---My best answer---I don't really know. I have heard of "pickling" brass to prepare it for soldering. I have heard advocates of citric acid, acetic acid, hydrochloric acid, and other dilute acids. White vinegar is acidic. A couple of months ago my wife was about to throw out the fluid left over from a jar of pickles, and I thought "Hey---I'll take that down to the shop and try it on some brass!!!" As I said, after an overnight soak in the pickle juice, there seemed to be no change in the appearance of the brass, other than that it was sticky and smelled of pickles. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I don't think I would advise anyone else to try pickle juice. ;D  ;D


----------



## Maryak

Nice tank Brian :bow: Glad it worked out OK.

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## southall

Hi all, a query about spirits of salts, I have an old bottle of this in my workshop, I believe it was used as a flux or cleaner for soft soldering, I know it is extremely corrosive,[left open for an hour and overnight my rulers were red rust the next day!] I use Duzall for my soft soldering, would anyone have any ideas as to what else this stuff m be used for. [spirits of salts is all that is written on thwe bottle]
       cheers, southall.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Southall---I just did a very quick internet search for "Spirits of salts" and came up with the following

Hydrochloric acid was first discovered around 800 AD by the alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan (Geber) and his contemporaries, by mixing common salt with sulfuric acid ("vitriol").[1][2] Jabir and contemporaries discovered many important chemicals, and recorded his findings in over twenty books, which carried his chemical knowledge of hydrochloric acid and other basic chemicals for hundreds of years. The 14th century description by Pseudo-Geber of the gold-dissolving aqua regia, consisting of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid, was of great interest to alchemists searching for the philosopher's stone.[1][2][3]

In the Middle Ages, hydrochloric acid was known to European alchemists as spirits of salt or acidum salis (salt acid). Both names are still deployed, notably in non-English languages, such as German: Salzsäure and Dutch: Zoutzuur. Gaseous HCl was called marine acid air. The old (pre-systematic) name muriatic acid has the same origin (muriatic means "pertaining to brine or salt"), and this name is still sometimes used. Notable production was recorded by Basilius Valentinus, the alchemist-canon of the Benedictine priory Sankt Peter in Erfurt, Germany, in the fifteenth century. In the seventeenth century, Johann Rudolf Glauber from Karlstadt am Main, Germany, used sodium chloride salt and sulfuric acid for the preparation of sodium sulfate in the Mannheim process, releasing hydrogen chloride gas. Joseph Priestley of Leeds, England prepared pure hydrogen chloride in 1772, and in 1818 Humphry Davy of Penzance, England, proved that the chemical composition included hydrogen and chlorine.[1][2][3]
  Jabir ibn Hayyan, medieval manuscript drawing.During the Industrial Revolution in Europe, demand for alkaline substances increased. A new industrial process by Nicolas Leblanc (Issoundun, France) enabled cheap large-scale production of sodium carbonate (soda ash). In this Leblanc process, common salt is converted to soda ash, using sulfuric acid, limestone, and coal, releasing hydrogen chloride as a by-product. Until the British Alkali Act 1863 and similar legislation in other countries, the excess HCl was vented to air. After the passage of the act, soda ash producers were obliged to absorb the waste gas in water, producing hydrochloric acid on an industrial scale.[1][3][4]

In the twentieth century, the Leblanc process was effectively replaced by the Solvay process without a hydrochloric acid by-product. Since hydrochloric acid was already fully settled as an important chemical in numerous applications, the commercial interest initiated other production methods, some of which are still used today. After the year 2000, hydrochloric acid is mostly made by absorbing by-product hydrogen chloride from industrial organic compounds production.[3][4][5]

Since 1988, hydrochloric acid has been listed as a Table II precursor under the 1988 United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances because of its use in the production of heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine.[6]

This fits right in with Maryaks advise to use dilute hydrochloric acid as a preperation for soldering in post #247.---Brian


----------



## Captain Jerry

Thanks Brian, that's good to know.

Jerry


----------



## southall

thanks for that prompt reply Brian,
                      regards, southall.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

My gears that I had on order came in this morning, and I was able to modify them with no problem and attach them to the flywheel and the exhaust cam. One thing that is kinda trick---The large gear with the exhaust cam comes in with a 1/4" bore (which is fine---the cam shaft is 1/4" also) However, the outer diameter of the hub is 1/2", and has to be turned down to 0.375" to fit into the bore of the exhaust cam. Also, the hub is 1/4" long and has to be taken down to 3/16" long. The hub on both gears comes with a #6-32 set screw. After a bit of head scratching, I attached the large gear to the end of a round piece of 1/4" cold rolled steel, with the hub facing away from the chuck and flush with the end of the 1/4" rod. First I turned the o.d. of the hub down to 0.375"---this also removed the end of the set screw with the hex hole in it. Then I faced the hub to be 3/16" long. Then I walked the rod with the gear still attached over to the mill and cut the center of the set screw out with a plunge cut from a 1/16" end mill. I then knocked the 1/4" rod out, and used a small easy out to remove the remains of the set screw.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I'm pleased to announce that if you build the Webster frame according to the drawings, the gears are a perfect mesh when installed. I was a bit concerned about that, but they seem to be spot on.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This is a rather crummy shot of the gears installed on the Webster engine.They fit and operate perfectly. They are a bit dirty, as they have a bit of loctite in the gear teeth that has to be cleaned up the next time I have everything disassembled. There are a number of "spacers" on this engine that require some tweaking, depending on how large (or small) you're accumulated tolerances are when you get to this stage. The gears are the stainless steel ones from Berg. Now I am supposed to be getting my carb this Friday, which will let me build a carb adapter and finalize the height of the pillar supporting the gas tank. I (hopefully) am being sent a small piece of copper to make a head gasket from one of the forum members, and I'm still waiting for my grease cups to arrive. You can see the end of the brass rocker arm (with a blob of loctite on the end of it) directly below the cam on the side of the larger gear.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

SCORE!!!!---I've been wondering where to get a piece of spring steel for the "Rocker arm Spring" for my Webster. I was out today to pick up something else, and as I drove home I stopped by the lawnmower/chainsaw repair shop. They gave me enough spring steel out of an old rewind mechanism to build a hundred Websters. this stuff is only 1/4" wide instead of the specified 9/32" per plan, but I'm sure it will be fine.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Here is a bit of information that someone may find usefull.





View attachment WEBSTER ENGINE VALVE TIMING.PDF


----------



## lathe nut

Looking great, thanks for the drawing and the info. on it, Lathe Nut


----------



## Brian Rupnow

The attached drawing will explain itself---It has to do with positioning components for valve timing.









View attachment WEBSTER WITH SETTING TOOL IN PLACE.PDF


----------



## Brian Rupnow

This is a detail of the setting tool---





View attachment SETTING TOOL ASSEMBLY.PDF


----------



## crankshafter

Hi Brian
Nice little tool. Yes it will ease the drilling for the rollpin.
CS


----------



## cfellows

Brian, does that mean you'll never be able to adjust the valve timing once you've drilled the hole and placed the roll pin? If it was off, couldn't you just take off the big cam gear and advance it or retard it one or more teeth as needed? 

Sorry if I don't understand, but I can't see why pinning the flywheel in a certain position is critical or even important. ???

Chuck


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Chuck---I know it seems a bit weird, and I agree with you. However, in this case, the small gear is attached to the flywheel and this is kind of a two part deal. Webster wants the crank throw positioned so that the piston is 15 degrees before bottom dead center, and also wants the cam set in a position where the rocker arm is about to begin lifting the exhaust valve, hence the exact positioning of the flywheel in its rotation. I have thought about this, and I too thought--"But what happens if the 15 degrees specified isn't correct?--Couldn't I just advance or retard the gear mesh by one tooth and correct it?" Yes, I am sure I could. I like this because it gives me a "way out" if the 15 degrees is not right. Anyhow, I have to start somewhere to pin the flywheel to the crankshaft, and I will do it according to the instructions, knowing that if its not quite right, I haven't painted myself into a corner.---Brian


----------



## Brian Rupnow

There we go---Not very pretty, but should be functional for a one time use. I'm not even going to bother with the bolt on clamp bar. I'll just use a small c-clamp to clamp the flywheel to the "setting angle" in the appropriate position.


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Yahoo---My Traxxas Pro-15 carburetor came today!!! Now to build an adapter--


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I like it---I like it!!!! Carb adapter made, pressed into place, and loctited. Carb loctited into adapter. I'm not sure that thats right but I couldn't find any other way of getting the carb to stay in place. I had to refer to Longboys excellent video to see which was top and which was bottom of the carburetor. I would really have been singing the donkeys song if I'd loctited the carb in place upside down!!! Now that I know how high the carb sets off the base, I'll be able to go ahead and cut my gas tank column to the correct length and install the gas tank.


----------



## bearcar1

Man that is one slick looking engine Brian. :bow: And far be it for me to question your skills and ability but I think I would have soldered up a small brass boss to your adapter pipe and then drilled and tapped it to accept a small set screw to hold your new prized possession in place. I can't wait to see this baby fire off. ;D

BC1
Jim


----------



## Maryak

Nice work Brian. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## Brian Rupnow

bearcar1  said:
			
		

> Man that is one slick looking engine Brian. :bow: And far be it for me to question your skills and ability but I think I would have soldered up a small brass boss to your adapter pipe and then drilled and tapped it to accept a small set screw to hold your new prized possession in place. I can't wait to see this baby fire off. ;D
> 
> BC1
> Jim



Bearcar--You could well be right. I never thought of that. One thing about this Loctite I use, if you get desperate enough you can break the bond. The carb cost $40, and although you can buy any part for it as a replacement, I don't think they would take it back with green loctite on it or with a hole drilled in it. ;D ;D


----------



## bearcar1

Actually I had more of a grub screw arrangement in mind, one that would merely provide capture pressure to the side(s) of the carb throat, not a through hole actually into the part. Oh well. Hopefully you won't have to remove the carb for any reason. I suppose some heat would release the adhesive bond. Get her fired up man, we all want to see this jewel run!

BC1
Jim


----------



## Brian Rupnow

Well guys--After reading all the excellent suggestions (All different) on the height that the gas tank should be, I went with Websters advice---"Set the tank so that the fuel level when full is 1/4" below the needle valve." One thing about it--If the advice given by everyone is indeed correct, then the darn tank should work all right at just about any level. My thoughts were that if the top of the fuel is below the needle valve (which I assume means at about the center of the venturi throat) then I shouldn't have any problems with gravity flowing and "puddling" the fuel when the engine is setting on one of my display shelves.


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## cfellows

Brian,

I think that height will work fine for the fuel tank. I would suggest you buy pretty small fuel line tubing from a hobby shop. It's pretty stretchy material and will fit over the nipples on the tank and carb easily. On the other hand, the capillary action from the small id will tend to keep the fuel from flowing backward between intake strokes.

Chuck


----------



## lathe nut

Great looking engine, I just know that you are going to post a video of it for us, are you going to post the drawing also, thanks, Lathe Nut


----------



## Brian Rupnow

lathe nut  said:
			
		

> Great looking engine, I just know that you are going to post a video of it for us, are you going to post the drawing also, thanks, Lathe Nut



Lathe Nut--I didn't design this one. However, the complete drawing package can be found here.---Brian
http://home.comcast.net/~webster_engines/  bottom of the page in the left hand corner.


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## zeeprogrammer

Very nice. That should be a lot of fun to run.
I'm looking forward to the video too.


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## Brian Rupnow

Yesterday while I was out, I bought the longest 3/32" diameter drill I have ever seen in my life----


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## Brian Rupnow

And then this morning (while I was still feeling brave, after a nights sleep) I set everything up in the mill. With my "crankshaft and flywheel positioning fixture" in place. I put a piece of masking tape over the face of the flywheel to protect it from the drill bit (its horribly close),----and drilled my two holes throught the flywheel hub and the crankshaft. Very delicate stuff, because there isn't room to get a center drill down in there. I did a bit of very light "peck" drilling untill I seen that the drill was going to start true, then with light pressure I drilled through the hub on both sides of the flywheel. I didn't realize it untill I was drilling on the side where the timing gear is recessed into one side of the flywheel, but that drill hole passes through the hub of the gear as well as the flywheel hub and crankshaft. The operation was a success---Nothing broken, everything seems to have ended up in the correct position. I put one roll pin in place just so that I could turn the engine over with the flywheel. Now I can't go any farther untill my oil and grease cups arrive, and a piece of 2" square copper volunteered by a gentleman south of the border shows up in my mail.---Thanks for looking.---Brian


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## Mosey

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> And then this morning (while I was still feeling brave, after a nights sleep) I set everything up in the mill. With my "crankshaft and flywheel positioning fixture" in place. I put a piece of masking tape over the face of the flywheel to protect it from the drill bit (its horribly close),----and drilled my two holes throught the flywheel hub and the crankshaft. Very delicate stuff, because there isn't room to get a center drill down in there. I did a bit of very light "peck" drilling untill I seen that the drill was going to start true, then with light pressure I drilled through the hub on both sides of the flywheel. I didn't realize it untill I was drilling on the side where the timing gear is recessed into one side of the flywheel, but that drill hole passes through the hub of the gear as well as the flywheel hub and crankshaft. The operation was a success---Nothing broken, everything seems to have ended up in the correct position. I put one roll pin in place just so that I could turn the engine over with the flywheel. Now I can't go any farther untill my oil and grease cups arrive, and a piece of 2" square copper volunteered by a gentleman south of the border shows up in my mail.---Thanks for looking.---Brian



Brian,
I believe that center drills come in long lengths as well. MSC of course.


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## Brian Rupnow

Yes, Mosey--they do. Problem was, my supplier didn't have any in stock and would have had to order it in.


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## Brian Rupnow

I spent most of yesterday chasing down the reason for no compression. Engine turns over nicely, everything worked, but their was no feeling of compression when coming up to top dead center. My first logical move was to make a temporary head gasket, as the piece of copper Tin is sending me hasn't showed up yet. However, no dice!!! Compression didn't come up at all. Next move was to check and make sure that the rocker arm wasn't holding the exhaust valve open, but no, I've got 0.020" between the end of the rocker arm and the head of the exhaust valve when its not actually lifting the valve. Next thing I did was to check for leaky valves. I slipped a piece of rubber hose over the exhaust pipe and blew untill my head started to spin, but no air was getting past the exhaust valve. Then I found a slightly larger piece of rubber hose and slipped it over the carburetor intake and like the big bad wolf, I huffed, and I puffed---and the air WAS going somewhere when the intake valve was closed!!! Then I pulled the entire valve block assembly off the engine and tested some more. With my finger held firmly in place over the intake port in the cylinder head/frame, there was very definitly good compression when I went to turn the engine over. So---filled the sink with water, held one end of the rubber tube in my mouth, and submerged the entire valve block, carb, exhaust pipe and all in the sink, and huffed and puffed some more.---------And sure enough, with the intake valve firmly closed, there was still a trail of bubbles coming out of the port in the side of the valve body that would normally set against the cylinder head/frame. At that point I disassembled the 3 blocks of brass that make up the valve body, and got out my valve grinding paste and reground the intake valve. I am NOT a believer in NOT USING GASKETS so I hunted around and found a plain brown envelope like the ones that couriers use, and cut out gaskets to put between the 3 valve blocks, with a light coating of some general purpose grease, then reassembled everything. Then I cut a piece of heavier 0.025" automotive gasket to install between the valve body and the cylinder head/frame. SUCCESS!!!--Now the engine has enough compression to actually "kick back" when you try to roll the engine over using the flywheel. This is very encouraging. I can't really do any more now untill my grease cups and copper head gasket shows up, so perhaps today I wil go buy a 12 volt coil and see about getting the wiring made up. I'm getting excited to see this engine run now.----Brian


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## cfellows

Brian, I'm glad you fixed the compression problem. I've found that issues with compression typically are somewhere in the valve assembly.

I do have one question. It sounds like you blew through the carburetor opening into the valve block? I would expect air to get through the valve since that's how the engine get's fuel... When you blow through the carburetor, the valve spring should give enough to let air through. A better test, although maybe more difficult to execute, would be to blow into he port which attaches to the engine.

Anywell, all's well that ends well! Can't wait to see that devil run.

Chuck


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## Brian Rupnow

Chuck---If you read about 5 posts back, you will see that I loctited the carb into the adapter, which was loctited into the valve block. I had no choice other than to blow into a tube which just fit over the air inlet on the carb. Oddly enough, with everything underwater and the valve shut properly, there was no train of bubbles coming from the fuel inlet on the carb.


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## Brian Rupnow

IT LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!! The engine fired for the first time and ran on its own about 15 minutes ago. ;D ;D ;D ;D I built a small adapter to go on my electric drill to aid in starting the engine for the first time ---I will post a pic of the adapter. I still have to add my grease cups and I'm still waiting for the piece of copper to make a proper head gasket, but I wanted to see if it would run!!! I have one setting where it will run indefinitly, but if I try to slow it down or speed it up, it just dies. I will sort that out as I go along.---Brian


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## cobra428

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> but if I try to slow it down or speed it up, it just dies. I will sort that out as I go along.---Brian



Brian,
Those carbs have a low and high speed needle. Low speed needle adj.....when trying to accelerate engine just dies...to lean

engine speeds up then dies....to rich.

This adj happens after high speed needle is in adjustment. Lean out at full throttle till engine just dies...richen needle up 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

You need to do this a few times back and forth from high to low adjustment till it's just right

Congrats

Tony


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## crankshafter

Brian.
Congrat. th_wav
Yes, it is like magic every time lumps of steel and metal comes to life. 
great job Brian. And thanks for the writeup. :bow:
Waiting for the video ;D

Best Regards
CS


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## cfellows

Congratulations, Brian. Feels great, doesn't it? As much extra work as they are, nothing is quite as satisfying as the sound of an IC engine when it fires up. All those parts and pieces coming together to form a running engine is just neat as hell!

Chuck


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## Brian Rupnow

I seem to have gotten VERY VERY LUCKY with all of my initial settings on the engine. After playing with the hi/lo needle adjustments, I now have it to the point where it idles down quite nicely. I am running on straight Coleman lantern fuel. I don't want to run it any more now untill I have added the grease and oil cups to it, as I don't want to burn out a bearing or score the cyl. wall. That Viton o-ring seems to work just fine at the initial ring groove width and depth that I gave earlier in this thread. I will desassemble the engine tomorrow to drill and tap for the grease cups, and will probably make my own large oil cup for the cylinder as per the Webster plans. I am very stoked with the idea that I have built a running internal combustion engine from basically "scratch". I have to compliment the fellow who did the original set of plans. He did an excellent job. After I get the oil cups added, I will make a nice video and post it here.---Brian


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## SAM in LA

Brian,

Congratulations!

An IC engine build is still a ways off for me.

I'm looking forward to seeing your engine running.

SAM


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## Brian Rupnow

Two things---#1--I have discovered a whole new world of electo-shock therapy!!! The carb adjustment is too damn close to the sparkplug!!!    and #2---The valve which operates the main butterfly (I'm not sure if thats considered hi-speed or low speed)---Anyways--the one with the little lever on top---wil not stay where you set it. If I hold it in place while the engine is running, all is fine. If I let it go, it begins to slowly turn itself and open the main butterfly untill the engine races faster and faster---Untill with visions of engine parts flying all over the room I grab it and turn it back to the low speed position. I'll have to do something to remedy that.


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## cobra428

Brian,
High speed needle is the long one. I forgot to mention earlier that you need to adj the long needle 2-1/2~3 turn out from bottoming it all the way in. This is the initial starting point. Again this is my glow experience. Low needle should be a small screw with a spring around it.

Tony

High Speed needle





Low needle, smaller carb have springs to stop the screw from moving





Your carb probably don't have the ball link, just an arm with a bunch of holes
Use a piece of music wire with a Z bend into the carb arm then make a friction bracket that the wire rides in. that should stop the shock therapy

Tony Again


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## Longboy

One turn open on the fuel needle jet. Close the throttle all the way and with a toothpick add a drop of 5 minute epoxy to the barrel. Have a Q-tip available dipped in carb cleaner or other solvent. As the epoxy sets up rotate the barrel open/closed and when it seems to be getting too tight twist your dipped Q-tip on the barrel to remove some of the material. You'll know by the feel when it has enough friction to stay in position with engine running and is still easily opened and closed.     Dave.


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## Maryak

Brian,

Congratulations on another successful build. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## lathe nut

Brian,
Thanks for the link and thanks for the learning experience, it looks great and again appreciate the as you go photos, hope to get me closed in shop ready by late summer when the days are 100 degrees and start some of your designs and builds, again thanks, Lathe Nut


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## Captain Jerry

Brian

Thanks for this very interesting build. Anyone who has not built an IC engine (that includes me) should now feel that it is within their reach. Where your builds go slightly off and you make adjustments or refinements to bring it back on course is the what inspires us all to attempt more difficult projects. It may be difficult to show the goofs but everyone here should know, that's life in the shop. Congratulations on getting it running! And getting it tuned. And showing us all how it was done! th_wav

Jerry


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## putputman

Congratulations Brian!!!!!! :bow: :bow:
Hearing that first "pop" of the engine is always a thrill. From here on it's just a matter of fine tuning the timing and carb.

An idea you might consider. When I made my Webster, I made a small pulley that fit on the crankshaft. Put a small notch in one of the flanges and used a small diameter nylon rope with a wooden handle on it for a rope starter. Just tie a fair size knot in the rope that will hook in the flange and release after each pull. That way you can start your engine anywhere and don't need electricity.


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## Brian Rupnow

Just as I suspected, there is something wrong with the design of the large oiler that screws onto the cylinder barrel. There is an internal #4-40 thread inside the oiler, and a #4-40 screw filed to a point that screws into the oil cup to control the amount of oil flow. I looked at it and thought---Thats not going to work!!! The oil has to migrate past all of the screw threads before it even gets to the tapered point which interfaces with the .063 hole in the bottom of the oil cup. However, websters plans were good up to this point, so I made the oiler and control screw as per plan. And yep, I was right. Even with the screw loose, not seated, there is no oil flow. Now I have to come up with a fix for that.---------------That turned out to be an easy enough fix. I ground the threads flat on two opposing sides of the screw, almost full length, leaving enough thread engaging to still hold the screw in the barrel. Now the oil doesn't have to migrate past the threads--it can run down both sides of the screw where I ground the material away untill it gets to the area where the taper on the screw seals against the step on the inside of the barrel where the diameter of the bore drops to .062".


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## Brian Rupnow

I have worked this morning dismantling the engine, cleaning it up, and adding the appropriate oil and grease cups. I am going to make a video within the hour, but I thought I would try and take at least 3 good quality still shots of the engine before I get it all dirty running it again. I have a couple of comments about this engine. #1--If you can build a small steam/air engine with no great difficulty, then you can build this engine from Websters plans. There is no level of complexity in making any of the parts for this engine that is greater than the machining found in making any of our small steam engines.
 #2---This is not a cheap engine to build, even if you have all or most of the aluminum and brass bits laying around your shop.
Sparkplug---------------$20.00
Coil---------------------$50.00
Grease cups-------------$12.00
Carburetor--------------$45.00
Points and condenser----$16.00
Fuel line and clamps------$2.00
On/off switch and wire---$8.00
Gears--------------------$70.00
My battery was free, as its out of my boat, but you see what I mean---Thats a sum of $223.00 when you add it all up.
---Still, it is a great thrill for me to have built my first I.C. engine.------Brian


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## black85vette

Really impressive Brian. Appreciate all the thought, details and information you have put into this thread.  Looking forward to the video. :bow:


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## cobra428

Very Nice Brian,
I'm waiting on the vid too!

You kept the receipts? You never keep receipts in a hobby

You don't want to know :big:

You know that you can move that carb arm to any position you want. Loosen screw and move. You will have to hit the low or high stops then it will rotate

Tony


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## ariz

congrats Brian on your first (and very well running!) IC engine :bow:

I envy your success on this build, because my first IC engine didn't run at all

occasionally I try to change some piece or setting to do a new test, but till now all the attempts have failed :-\

yours is a great engine [EDIT] _and maybe that I adopt the idea of using a groove on the piston with an o-ring in it, hoping to solve my problems_ :


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## skeeter

Hi, Brian. That is a fine engine you made there. :bow: :bow: I was wondering how low can you go on your idle speed? I have downloaded his plans and may build this for my first IC engine. I think I would like to try the propane fuel system by howell and the hall effect ignition as well. I would like to have an idle speed that is slow if possible. Do you think this would work ?
Best Regards skeeter ;D


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## Brian Rupnow

As promised, here is the video. This will answer some of the questions about idle speeds. I had to start the engine first, then take the video, as I'm here by myself and I don't seem to have enough arms and legs to start the engine while taking the video. Hope you like it. (I have no idea where the strange alien sound effects are coming from--the batteries were a bit low in my camera.)----Brian


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## SAM in LA

Brian,

Looks and sounds good.

Thanks for posting your build.

SAM


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## zeeprogrammer

Congratulations Brian.
Gets me thinking about an IC engine too.
Thanks for posting.


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## ksouers

Congratulations Brian.
She looks and sounds great! Sounds like it has a little bit of a growl to it ;D

Thanks for taking us along.


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## Deanofid

Runs good, Brian.

Dean


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## cfellows

Nice runner, Brian. So, now that you have finished it, what are you thoughts about IC engines? Is there another one in your future?

Chuck


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## Brian Rupnow

My thoughts---Well, with this i.c. engine at least, its a heck of a lot messier than an "air " engine. Are they harder to build than an air/steam engine?---Not at all. They cost more to build, but only because of the peripheral equipment they require i.e. carb, coil, points, sparkplug, etc. I am thrilled that in the course of 3 years I have went from a non machinist to someone capable of building an actual running i.c. engine. Will I build another.---Heck, I don't have a clue.


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## rake60

Great runner Brian! Thm:

Rick


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## Longboy

NEWS FLASH: "A new WEBSTER engine is on line and has been declared "A Runner" by its fans".......... Good job Brian and your log speaks well to relative newbies, the Webster being my 1st I/C engine too. Hope you add to the You Tube collection of Websters with a good video. Can't wait to see who here is gonna jump in on this novice ability gem...............cuzz you know someone will! Thm:   Dave.


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## Tin Falcon

you need a gasket Hope Ms Tin in did not write unobtainium sheet on the customs slip LOL
Tin


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## Deanofid

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> Are they harder to build than an air/steam engine?---Not at all. They cost more to build, but only because of the peripheral equipment they require i.e. carb, coil, points, sparkplug, etc.



Well, it depends on how much of the engine you build, Brian. If you built those things, except for the coil, maybe, plus cut your own gears and made things like grease cups, it would be somewhat harder than a steam engine, but not really more expensive.

Dean


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## Paulsv

Brian-

Great looking engine, and this has been an excellent build record. Congratulations on both scores. 

I like the look of your gas tank, and how you mounted it. Very clean looking. I don't see a vent hole in your gas tank, but I see you are running it with the cap on. Did you hide the vent, or don't you have a vent hole in it? If not, wouldn't it eventually create a vacuum in the tank and cause fuel starvation?


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## kustomkb

Congratulations Brian!

Great engine and build log.

An Engineer, who can build it too, is a rare breed.

Good on ya!


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## Brian Rupnow

Paulsv  said:
			
		

> Brian-
> 
> Great looking engine, and this has been an excellent build record. Congratulations on both scores.
> 
> I like the look of your gas tank, and how you mounted it. Very clean looking. I don't see a vent hole in your gas tank, but I see you are running it with the cap on. Did you hide the vent, or don't you have a vent hole in it? If not, wouldn't it eventually create a vacuum in the tank and cause fuel starvation?



The cap screws on. I just loosen it half a turn and it lets in enough air.


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## radfordc

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> SCORE!!!!---I've been wondering where to get a piece of spring steel for the "Rocker arm Spring" for my Webster.



While reading through Brian's build I came upon this message. My first thought was, "what spring?". I had completely overlooked the spring on the plans and didn't install one in my engine.

Although my engine ran, it never performed as well as the others shown on HMEM. I installed a spring today and now my engine runs like it's supposed too!!

Charlie


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## NickG

Well done Brian. Thanks for sharing your journey, this will no doubt help me and many others when we come to build our first ic engines. I can't wait for the first time my own i.c. fires up, must be an immense feeling. 

I haven't seen the vid yet, will have a look at home.

Nick


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## Brian Rupnow

My engine runs great, but it required me to keep one hand on the carburetor throttle lever all the time it was running, because it would vibrate into an open throttle position very quickly if I didn't hold it. This morning I had some free time so I fabricated a "throttle lever" which attaches to the base with a #10-24 screw and a compression spring. There is a link made of welding wire that goes from my throttle lever over to the carburetor. The compression spring gives enough friction that the arm won't move from vibration, so now I have a "hands free" engine that I can adjust the speed setting to where I want it and then let go.


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## Brian Rupnow

Great fun this afternoon. My friend Colin who lives on the other side of town and is building Elmers#33 came over to see the Webster run, and I silver soldered a piece for his engine. We had a good visit, and "show and tell". It sure is nice to have some modelling friends close enough to come and visit!!!


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## NickG

Runs fantastically Brian, well done you must be chuffed. Like the throttle too.

 :bow:

Nick


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## lathe nut

Thanks Brian, another good looking and good running engine, you can put it on the pumping jack that you are going to build and all you have to do is get an oil well, I am around them everyday, heck I will get one to put the unit on, that would be a whole new meaning to stripper oil, learned a lot again, thanks, Lathe Nut


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## Bill Mc

Hi Brian - Your Webster Engine Build is real nice, congratulations. This engine is on my to-do list. I have the same milling machine as yours. Could you tell me where you get those mini fuses for it. Busy Bee off Mapleview where I bought my machine did not have any fuses that size the last time I was there. My mill is running with a piece of cigarette tin foil wrapped around the blown fuse right now. - Bill Mc (from Baxter)


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## Brian Rupnow

Bill---They have them at Ideal Supply in the Cedarpoint Plaza,----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow

Finally, I got around to repairing my Webster engine. About 2 months ago the silver solder which held the crank "throw" to the crankshaft let go. I have been busy with other things, but finally got some time today to take it all apart, resolder it, and then pin things in place with a 3/32" dowel pin. I haven't felt like doing much since I finished the pumpjack (Can you say BURNOUT) but I did get a bit of quality shop time in today.----Brian


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## SAM in LA

Brian,

Good to hear from you.

I was beginning to wonder if you had fallen of the face of earth.

SAM


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## Brian Rupnow

The exhaust and the carb intake pipe are both Loctited in place.


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## alli

Info wanted! An eccentric Is iet simmular to a crank?


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## Brian Rupnow

Yes Alli, an eccentric is a type of crankshaft. It is basically a crankshaft with one side left off. See post #51---Brian


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## alli

Thanx. I'm busy whith my first single action slide valve steam engine. My own desin. Now with dimesion and scale I d'nt have a clue.  May I ask for some assistance where needed from you? I like your engine. I d'nt have a lath or mill. Friend of mine helps with that part. How do I desid on length off the piston and valve stroke. Then time what the valve has to trafel from A to B?


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## Charles Lamont

alli said:


> Thanx. I'm busy whith my first single action slide valve steam engine. My own desin. Now with dimesion and scale I d'nt have a clue.  May I ask for some assistance where needed from you? I like your engine. I d'nt have a lath or mill. Friend of mine helps with that part. How do I desid on length off the piston and valve stroke. Then time what the valve has to trafel from A to B?



I suggest "Model Stationary and Marine Steam Engines" by K N Harris is the best starting point.


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## Brian Rupnow

alli said:


> Thanx. I'm busy whith my first single action slide valve steam engine. My own desin. Now with dimesion and scale I d'nt have a clue.  May I ask for some assistance where needed from you? I like your engine. I d'nt have a lath or mill. Friend of mine helps with that part. How do I desid on length off the piston and valve stroke. Then time what the valve has to trafel from A to B?


Alli---if you don't have a lathe, or a mill, or a design, and don't have a clue, then I can not help you.---Sorry.---Brian


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## Rolland

Even tho the cost was figured on prices 8 years ago I assume Canadian dollars that is about what right for the cost today in US dollars  . Of .then you would have to factor in labor and aluminum/brass costs .


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## johwen

Brian Rupnow said:


> And Oh Yeah---In case I haven't mentioned it 2 or 300 times now---"DAMN---I hate using a parting off tool in steel!!!!"


Hi johwen from under.
Being a hobby machinest for quite a long time and like everybody had trouble parting mild steel I came across the T section blade see below Works fantastic use the blade upside down and the lathe in reverse you can even use power feed... Details here...
*"T" Type Parting Off Blades
The premium quality blades we stock are sourced from the largest manufacturer of repetition lathe tooling in the USA.
The blades have a slight hollow grind along the top (bottom) cutting edge which assists in curling the chip for easier ejection from the cut. 
The industry standard height for 1/2" "T" type parting blades is actually close to 12mm.
 Please be aware that some of the cheaper "T" type blades from China and India are 12.7mm (1/2") high and will not fit the FoR inverted parting tool holder.*
Here is the website for the manufacture of the blade holder and blades High quality tooling at affordable pricing. Hope this helps
www.eccentricengineering.com.au










*


*


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## LorenOtto

johwen said:


> Hi johwen from under.
> Being a hobby machinest for quite a long time and like everybody had trouble parting mild steel I came across the T section blade see below Works fantastic use the blade upside down and the lathe in reverse you can even use power feed... Details here...
> *"T" Type Parting Off Blades
> The premium quality blades we stock are sourced from the largest manufacturer of repetition lathe tooling in the USA.
> The blades have a slight hollow grind along the top (bottom) cutting edge which assists in curling the chip for easier ejection from the cut.
> The industry standard height for 1/2" "T" type parting blades is actually close to 12mm.
> Please be aware that some of the cheaper "T" type blades from China and India are 12.7mm (1/2") high and will not fit the FoR inverted parting tool holder.*
> Here is the website for the manufacture of the blade holder and blades High quality tooling at affordable pricing. Hope this helps
> www.eccentricengineering.com.au


I have used this tools with very satisfactory results, highly recommended.


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## lennardhme

Eccentric Engineering products.....highly recommended. Innovative & extremely well made. FWIW.
Lennard.


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## SpringHollow

I like everything I have received from Eccentric Engineering.  Some are interesting projects to build.

Ken


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