# Attention! Rancid with other word hardened and unuseful grease in semi-universal dividing head BS-0, BS-1, universal dividing head BS-2.



## Mechanicboy (May 3, 2021)

Hi all people who own Chinese made semi-universal dividing head BS-0, BS-1, universal dividing head BS-2.

When I used the dividing head, I discovered that there were hard points in the bearing, the crank did not feel the same all the way. Then I noticed that the workpiece that was milled was not in the center since I use an adapter with ER-32 collet attached in dividing head.

So I measured with the dial on the cone inside the dividing head and discovered that it was a throw. Tried to adjust the thrust bearing without it helping, still slack in the spindle.

So I disassembled the dividing head and discovered the grease was rancid and hard mass.
Washed all parts clean and free of rancid grease. These bearings was checked and found to not be damaged. Note: Replace bearings if damaged or hard points in bearings. Greased with new wheel bearing grease that I have lying in my workshop room. So I adjusted the thrust bearing, but still slack. Found that the length of the shaft was a bit too long. So I put a 3 mm / 1/8" thick disc that I have turned to adjust between the adjusting nut and the thrust bearing. Then there was no slack and reduced throw in the spindle.

In other words, the Chinese grease that was used to lubricate the bearings and gears in the dividing head was of poor quality that turns rancid and hardens over time.

Encourages you to clean and lubricate with bearing grease in the chinese dividing head so the quality of dividing head will be better.

Regards Jens Eirik


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## Chiptosser (May 4, 2021)

I have found this in other tools too!   Makes you wonder what they are using.
Animal fat??


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## Mechanicboy (May 4, 2021)

Chiptosser said:


> I have found this in other tools too!   Makes you wonder what they are using.
> Animal fat??



Probably,  I'm not sure how are the grease produced in China. The Chinese oil/grease smell difference from other oil/grease.


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## BaronJ (May 4, 2021)

Hi Guys,

That was the sort of stuff that was in the spindle bearings on my mill !

I scrubbed them clean using white spirit !   I few day later when I emptied the plastic container, I found this lot caught in the bottom of it.





Just look at the amount of metal in there !  No wonder that the spindle was difficult to turn by hand and felt rough.


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## Mechanicboy (May 4, 2021)

I has Chinese milling machine, then I take a check in case the bearings is dirty and bad grease. I must be sure all is in good order.


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## dnalot (May 4, 2021)

Chinese greases and oils are made of monky spit, dead silk worms and ear wax. Sometimes a little saw dust for thickener.

Mark T


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## SmithDoor (May 4, 2021)

There oil port on dividing head. 
I have BS-0 and I  just keep oil. 

Dave



Mechanicboy said:


> Hi all people who own Chinese made semi-universal dividing head BS-0, BS-1, universal dividing head BS-2.
> 
> When I used the dividing head, I discovered that there were hard points in the bearing, the crank did not feel the same all the way. Then I noticed that the workpiece that was milled was not in the center since I use an adapter with ER-32 collet attached in dividing head.
> 
> ...


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## Mechanicboy (May 4, 2021)

SmithDoor said:


> There oil port on dividing head.
> I have BS-0 and I  just keep oil.
> 
> Dave



Dave..

The oil are to lubricate the worm shaft and brake beside the thrust bearing. Also the oil do not have access to lubricate the thrust bearing, spindle bearing and gearwheel/worm gear. Also they are lubricated by the grease. Disassembly the dividing head and find what you will see..


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## SmithDoor (May 4, 2021)

Mechanicboy said:


> Dave..
> 
> The oil are to lubricate the worm shaft and brake beside the thrust bearing. Also the oil do not have access to lubricate the thrust bearing, spindle bearing and gearwheel/worm gear. Also they are lubricated by the grease. Disassembly the dividing head and find what you will see..


I purchased mind about 35 years ago it has oilers for bearings 
I guess the Chinese are taking short cuts and sounds like China is using chuck grease


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## SmithDoor (May 4, 2021)

Here chuck grease it very sticky and stiff.









						Bison Chuck Grease - 7-799-025
					

Offering a huge selection of industrial tool sales online. Find over 100,000 metalworking products, precision measuring tools, power tools & accessories.




					www.penntoolco.com
				



I use on some part when lub is hard to do.

Dave


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## Mechanicboy (May 4, 2021)

BaronJ said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> That was the sort of stuff that was in the spindle bearings on my mill !
> 
> ...



BaronJ, after you wrote about milling machine, I did not get peace until I disassembled and washed parts.  So much impurities to find, the spindle did not go so clean on roller bearings.  The Chinese do not wash the parts properly before assembling the milling machine and also probably other machine tools manufactured in China.  Grease was quite tough and the spindle went heavy.  Have experienced electric motor broke after the fuse went off many times before I switched to new electric motor.



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## BaronJ (May 4, 2021)

Hi Jens,

Thank you for your pictures !  Your bearings don't seem to have as much debris in them as mine had.  I was quite shocked when I discovered all that metal in the plastic tray, all from just those two bearings.  I've now used lithium wheel bearing grease to re-lubricate them.  The spindle now feels smooth and is noise free, so I feel lucky that there does not appear to have been any bearing damage. Though I shall be keeping a close watch on them.


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## Mechanicboy (May 4, 2021)

BaronJ,. I has assembled the spindle after carefully cleaning, there was big difference: Less load to start up the milling machine and more smooth. I'm using Mercedes-Benz wheel bearing to lubricate the bearings and all moving parts in the milling machine head. The bearings is preloaded and checked to be warm up to 50-60 degree celsius/130-140 Fahrnheit under 15 minute running. Very satisfied. I'm using same grease to my Siec C-6 lathe, never had problem with the bearings since 2005. ☺


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## MRA (May 5, 2021)

(This reminds me of the rumours that the Russians used some kind of grease based on fish to lubricate the jacks which came with Lada cars.  Well, that's what it smelt like  I guess in Bergen one might be able to find someone elderly who knows what whale oil smells like!).


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## Mechanicboy (May 5, 2021)

MRA said:


> (This reminds me of the rumours that the Russians used some kind of grease based on fish to lubricate the jacks which came with Lada cars.  Well, that's what it smelt like  I guess in Bergen one might be able to find someone elderly who knows what whale oil smells like!).



In fact the whale oil was the best oil to lubricate the finer instruments and clock. Here is the link.. Whale oil as lubricant


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## bdolin (May 5, 2021)

I had a VERY old pipe threading set that specified the use of the “ best bear grease”


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## 57mm_M18 (May 5, 2021)

Mechanicboy said:


> In fact the whale oil was the best oil to lubricate the finer instruments and clock. Here is the link.. Whale oil as lubricant


I the instrument oil was the oil found in an organ of the sperm whale.  That oil was used by the whale to send and receive sound waves.  Correct me if I am wrong.  This oil was highly sought after and quite expensive due to the disappearing supply.  Modern oils have since replaced these lubricants.


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## abby (May 5, 2021)

"Modern oils have since replaced these lubricants."
Thank heavens for that , whale oil was also used  in lamps for indoor lighting and for quenching steel during heat treatment.
Dan.


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## SmithDoor (May 5, 2021)

I have bottle of whale oil but never used.
The synthetic oil is best it over 100 years old. 

They looking at chuck type as being rancid grease. Most Chuck grease looks rancid out new can.

Dave



abby said:


> "Modern oils have since replaced these lubricants."
> Thank heavens for that , whale oil was also used  in lamps for indoor lighting and for quenching steel during heat treatment.
> Dan.


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## SlowDave (May 5, 2021)

I restored an Martini Henry once and it was covered in what I concluded was rancid yak butter.  Seriously, many of my 100 year old machining books have all sorts of animal based recipes for cutting and lubricating compounds.  Maybe they are still being used.  Or perhaps it is something out of the Soylent Green factories


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## SmithDoor (May 5, 2021)

I hope post a few recipes.
It was to costly to use animal based.
But today it maybe cheaper to use animal based. I would not for oiling but cutting oil it would be great.

Dave



SlowDave said:


> I restored an Martini Henry once and it was covered in what I concluded was rancid yak butter.  Seriously, many of my 100 year old machining books have all sorts of animal based recipes for cutting and lubricating compounds.  Maybe they are still being used.  Or perhaps it is something out of the Soylent Green factories


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## Alec Ryals (May 6, 2021)

MRA said:


> (This reminds me of the rumours that the Russians used some kind of grease based on fish to lubricate the jacks which came with Lada cars.  Well, that's what it smelt like  I guess in Bergen one might be able to find someone elderly who knows what whale oil smells like!).


I've worked on new alfa cars that used fish grease on the wheel bearings


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## SmithDoor (May 6, 2021)

Is that today's new cars ?

Dave



Alec Ryals said:


> I've worked on new alfa cars that used fish grease on the wheel bearings


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## awake (May 6, 2021)

I have read older machinists saying that bacon grease or lard are superior lubricants for threading and parting ...


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## SmithDoor (May 6, 2021)

awake said:


> I have read older machinists saying that bacon grease or lard are superior lubricants for threading and parting ...


I read that too.
I have not try it
They would mix lard, mineral oil and sulfur then cook the mix.
The old shops did not buy cutting oil. Some would use just lard
The old time bacon is not same as today's bacon it lot of other additives

Dave


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## BaronJ (May 6, 2021)

SmithDoor said:


> I read that too.
> I have not try it
> They would mix lard, mineral oil and sulfur then cook the mix.
> The old shops did not buy cutting oil. Some would use just lard
> ...



Trefolex and similar used that basic formula !  I believe that they also used to add white lead, but I'm told that its no longer the case.


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## SmithDoor (May 6, 2021)

BaronJ said:


> Trefolex and similar used that basic formula !  I believe that they also used to add white lead, but I'm told that its no longer the case.


White lead is band for most uses today. You still buy white lead but can not use for anything. 

Have can of white lead substitute for chucks and centers 

Dave


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## SirJohn (May 7, 2021)

On the farm (65 years ago) we always head a can of lard beside the Post Drill to use when drilling in steel.  Seemed to work well then but haven't used it since moving to the city.


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## ddmckee54 (May 7, 2021)

Soylent Green???  SlowDave you're dating yoursel there, but so am I because I remember when it was released.

SirJohn, just about that long ago when I lived on the farm, we used lard for tap lube.

Don


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## SmithDoor (May 8, 2021)

It date myself 
But lot information comes from old books. 
You look at machine work in 1900 and wonder how did do that.
The data is found in old books.
Today everyone is selling carbide and new cutting oils and everyone wonders shy my lathe chather . Just go back before hss cutters and find the answer. 

Dave



ddmckee54 said:


> Soylent Green???  SlowDave you're dating yoursel there, but so am I because I remember when it was released.
> 
> SirJohn, just about that long ago when I lived on the farm, we used lard for tap lube.
> 
> Don


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## terryd (May 8, 2021)

SirJohn said:


> On the farm (65 years ago) we always head a can of lard beside the Post Drill to use when drilling in steel.  Seemed to work well then but haven't used it since moving to the city.


Hi,

When I worked with the industrial electricians as part of my apprenticeship we used tallow as a threading lubricant for use on metal conduit tubing.  It was basically a rendered animal fat traditionally beef or mutton but also pork and other animal fats were used.  It was the consistency of lard or butter but melted at the sort of temperature generated when using a die for threading.  It didn't go rancid or deteriorate if kept in airtight containers.  In those less conservationally aware days we also used whale oil as a quench for hardening and tempering in the toolroom.

Stay safe and healthy,

TerryD


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## terryd (May 8, 2021)

MRA said:


> (This reminds me of the rumours that the Russians used some kind of grease based on fish to lubricate the jacks which came with Lada cars.  Well, that's what it smelt like  I guess in Bergen one might be able to find someone elderly who knows what whale oil smells like!).


Hi mRA,

As I said in an earlier posting we used to use whale oil in a large tank as a quench when hardening and tempering in the toolroom where I worked in the '60s and '70s.  When hardening the steel was obviously red hot but there was very little smoke or smell (as far as I can remember) when quenching and the oil was long lasting did not quickly deteriorate.

Stay safe and healthy,

TerryD


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## MRA (May 9, 2021)

That's interesting Terry.  I'm in England's NW, so I'm less likely to come across some whale oil (unlike Jens maybe!) but more likely to come across a 'lump of lard'


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## skyline1 (May 9, 2021)

Hi Terry

I used tallow too for conduit threading when I was an apprentice. It has quite a pleasant smell even tasty, I wouldn't try eating eating the stuff although you probably could if it was new. It wouldn't do your arteries much good but probably wouldn't kill you immediately. Then of course we "advanced" and were using Trefolex which is foul smelling stuff even when new, I much preferred the old tallow.

Have you ever used Hellerine for putting rubber sleeves on it smells a bit like baby oil, which i think it basically is without the added perfume.

Best Regards Mark


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## BaronJ (May 9, 2021)

MRA said:


> That's interesting Terry.  I'm in England's NW, so I'm less likely to come across some whale oil (unlike Jens maybe!) but more likely to come across a 'lump of lard'



You can buy 250 gram blocks of lard in most supermarkets !


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## BaronJ (May 9, 2021)

skyline1 said:


> Hi Terry
> 
> I used tallow too for conduit threading when I was an apprentice. It has quite a pleasant smell even tasty, I wouldn't try eating eating the stuff although you probably could if it was new. It wouldn't do your arteries much good but probably wouldn't kill you immediately. Then of course we "advanced" and were using Trefolex which is foul smelling stuff even when new, I much preferred the old tallow.
> 
> ...



Hellerine is I believe a silicon oil !  It stays slippery for months after application.  A bottle of it seems to last forever.


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## MRA (May 9, 2021)

BaronJ said:


> You can buy 250 gram blocks of lard in most supermarkets !


Ah - you're not familiar with the insult / joke attached to 'lump of lard' then!   While we are talking about those rubber sleeves, the pliers used to stretch them over the connection to be protected sometimes had their name changed from 'Hellerman' to 'Honeymoon' pliers


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## goldstar31 (May 9, 2021)

You can buy 250 gram blocks of lard in most supermarkets !
[/QUOTE]

But even better, you can buy Purifird lard oil by the 5 litres


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## skyline1 (May 9, 2021)

BaronJ
Yes that's it, Wonderful stuff Hellerine, a little drop goes a long way.  It has a multitude of uses apart from it's original one of lubricating rubber sleeves. 

Like freeing stuck wedding rings and releasing an apprentice's finger from where said apprentice shouldn't have stuck it in the first place. ! ( Up the end of a conduit pipe )

Best Regards Mark


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## goldstar31 (May 9, 2021)

skyline1 said:


> BaronJ
> Yes that's it, Wonderful stuff Hellerine, a little drop goes a long way.  It has a multitude of uses apart from it's original one of lubricating rubber sleeves.
> 
> Like freeing stuck wedding rings and releasing an apprentice's finger from where said apprentice shouldn't have stuck it in the first place. ! ( Up the end of a conduit pipe )
> ...



I'm  having an eduxated guess for Hellerine and suspect that it is not far off 19 parts of castor pil to one of ethanol.
So for us oldies, it is mainly castor oil which was used in WW1 aircraft egines and gave the aces of old  'Montezuma's Revenge

Then for  old motor bikes Lord Wakefield mad Castrol oil with its unique  smalling exhaust.
So back to us who had 'Diesel' or correctly compression ignition model engines the  fuel was ofter 'cow' castor oil,  kerosene and a ether meths with a dab of amyl nitrate or nitride.

BUT_ BUT once castor oil is heated too high, it becomes 'varnish'. Actually it went in with Glycerol to male some paints. Wasn't it Pthallic Anhydride????

Norman


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## skyline1 (May 9, 2021)

Hi Norm



goldstar31 said:


> it is mainly castor oil which was used in WW1 aircraft egines and gave the aces of old 'Montezuma's Revenge



Yes Castor Oil is well known for this and I believe used medically for just this purpose.

I think you might be right The MSDS for Hellerine states vegetable oil and ethanol as it's constituents. 

I think "Castrol R" and some of it's competitors is basically castor oil that's why a scramble meet smells like a mobile chip shop.



goldstar31 said:


> So back to us who had 'Diesel' or correctly compression ignition model engines the fuel was ofter 'cow' castor oil, kerosene and a ether meths with a dab of amyl nitrate or nitride.



Sounds like that concoction would explode if you looked at it too hard, small wonder it makes those little engines go so well !

Best Regards Mark


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## goldstar31 (May 9, 2021)

I've spent the morning in a Citroen Deux Chevaux which my son is  treating as a Boys Toy.   Goes with his  Lotus Elise SE

Grandson at 11 is having his first driving less. 

Castor oill? The Mad Rich offring has just topped up the 80 Million Frenh Farmers can't be wrong  thing's suspension with medicinal and expesive stuff


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## terryd (May 9, 2021)

skyline1 said:


> Hi Terry
> 
> I used tallow too for conduit threading when I was an apprentice. It has quite a pleasant smell even tasty, I wouldn't try eating eating the stuff although you probably could if it was new. It wouldn't do your arteries much good but probably wouldn't kill you immediately. Then of course we "advanced" and were using Trefolex which is foul smelling stuff even when new, I much preferred the old tallow.
> 
> ...



Hi Mark, 
I have plenty of 'lard' these days, can't use it but would like to get rid of it    As for rubber gloves I just use Baby powder or any old talcum powder if I can get it, works like a treat and keeps me smelling nice which the wife likes so it's a win-win,  By the way I served my apprenticeship in the West Midlands at a BMC (British Motor Corp.) subsidiary.

Stay safe and healthy,

TerryD


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## terryd (May 9, 2021)

goldstar31 said:


> I've spent the morning in a Citroen Deux Chevaux which my son is  treating as a Boys Toy.   Goes with his  Lotus Elise SE
> 
> Grandson at 11 is having his first driving less.
> 
> Castor oill? The Mad Rich offring has just topped up the 80 Million Frenh Farmers can't be wrong  thing's suspension with medicinal and expesive stuff


Hi Norman,

bit of an exaggeration there.  The population of France is a bit less than the UK (65Million) and I know for a fact that they're not all farmers

Stay safe,

TerryD


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## SmithDoor (May 9, 2021)

If you mix lard and mineral oil makes a cutting oil. The adding make lard easy to use.

At one time it was cheaper to buy cutting oil . 
But I think day has changed.  

Dave



goldstar31 said:


> You can buy 250 gram blocks of lard in most supermarkets !



But even better, you can buy Purifird lard oil by the 5 litres
[/QUOTE]


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## fcheslop (May 9, 2021)

Tallow is still available








						BES.co.uk | Next Day Delivery On 15,000 + Plumbing Supplies
					

Order tallow and other lubricants online at BES.co.uk. Low Prices, Free Next Day Delivery Available, 15k Plus Products in stock. P/N: 21321




					www.bes.co.uk


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## SmithDoor (May 9, 2021)

Here chart out of How to Run a Lathe on cutting oil.

Dave


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## goldstar31 (May 9, 2021)

terryd said:


> Hi Norman,
> 
> bit of an exaggeration there.  The population of France is a bit less than the UK (65Million) and I know for a fact that they're not all farmers
> 
> ...


Jokes apart, Citren produced almost 4 MILLION  Deau Chevaux.
Despite  the last one produced( in Portugal), they in 1990 are still being 'restored and restored' with galvanised chassis and almost all spares.
My neighbour- a Syrian architect recalled that his mother had and adored hers 40 years ago. 
Today, my 11 year old grandson had his first driving lesson. At 91, I'll be handing in my driving licence. 
Not for my  sit on lawn mower or  my electric disability one


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## SmithDoor (May 9, 2021)

Here short list of cutting ingredients.
1) Paraffin  (candle/canning wax)
2) Naphthenic
3) Vegetable oil (cooking oil)
4) Mineral oil
5) BHT aka Butylated hydroxytoluene. See below for more information.
6) Sulfur

Note big names in cutting oil uses Paraffin and Vegetable oil.

The BHT is listed under several categories in catalogues and databases, such as food additive, household product ingredient, industrial additive, personal care product/cosmetic ingredient, pesticide ingredient, plastic/rubber ingredient and medical/veterinary/research.

Dave


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## goldstar31 (May 10, 2021)

My little glass jam jar which contains  lard oil to be far too small for all that lot


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## the engineer (May 27, 2021)

SlowDave said:


> I restored an Martini Henry once and it was covered in what I concluded was rancid yak butter.  Seriously, many of my 100 year old machining books have all sorts of animal based recipes for cutting and lubricating compounds.  Maybe they are still being used.  Or perhaps it is something out of the Soylent Green factories


soylent green one sick movie i were wondering if i were the only one that had seen it  but this makes two


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## mcostello (May 28, 2021)

Make it three.


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## Jojo (May 28, 2021)

mcostello said:


> Make it three.


Make that four!!


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## L98fiero (May 29, 2021)

the engineer said:


> soylent green one sick movie i were wondering if i were the only one that had seen it  but this makes two


2022 is next year!!!!


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## comstock-friend (May 30, 2021)

"It's people!"


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## L98fiero (May 30, 2021)

comstock-friend said:


> "It's people!"


 "of the people, by the people, for the people", where have I heard that before?


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