# Slide rule???



## compound driver 2 (Mar 21, 2008)

Hi
just out of interest how many of us still use a slide rule in the shop? I have to admit to never having owned an electric calculator, I still stick with a 12 inch slide rule.

Come to that how many would own up to still using one?

Cheers kevin


----------



## rake60 (Mar 21, 2008)

I have one that gets played with every now and then.
It's old and worn. Some areas are a little difficult to read because or that.

When I was 16 years old a basic 4 function calculator cost $50.
The average blue collar wage at that time was $2.35/Hr and I had
a part time job. Made enough to buy a $50 4 function calculate!  
It used 4 AA batteries that wold last 6 hours.

The slide rule still saw a lot of use at that time.
Not so much today...

Rick


----------



## mklotz (Mar 21, 2008)

I used slide rules all through college. I would have killed for a scientific calculator - especially in physical chemistry and statistics classes.

My current programmable HP35S has programs stored in it for a variety of shop tasks. Can't do that on a slip stick. In addition, it does fractional arithmetic without the need to convert to decimals first. Try adding 1 & 31/64 + 5/16 on your slip stick.

They are handy for propping open the top of the toolbox, though.


----------



## Bogstandard (Mar 21, 2008)

As far as I can remember, pocket calculators came in at the beginning of the 70's. Before that, everything I did was with a slide rule. It went into the bin years ago.

But I do know that I would still be able to use it after all these years, some things are never forgotten.

John


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 21, 2008)

I am in the beginning of the electronic generation. I do not recall using a slide rule in school. The calculator of choice in high school was the TI-55 It had a rechargeable ni-cad battery little red LEDs ,tiny keys and was"Programmable" it came in a case with a belt loop you could pick out the college prep students because they were the ones with the TI-55s hanging off there belt. I have a couple slide rules around the shop but never used one. 
I have several calculators I use the work horse is a TI 83. I have contemplated getting an older palm with machining programing but it is somehow not top priority. 
Tin


----------



## Lew Hartswick (Mar 21, 2008)

I still have the Picket model 4 vector hyperbolic log log that I bought my senior year in high school and 
used in college but dont realy use it in the shop. Most of the shop tasks anre not that trig intensive.
The HP calculators show "a few" more significant figures and carrying 4 or 5 places is good when there
are a lot of calculations to be made before rounding at the end. I could be persuaded to part with it I
suppose if the collectors are intested since I doubt I'll ever need it and I'm not a "collector" of anything 
but junk.  ps. that makes it just shy of 60 years old.
  ...lew...


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 21, 2008)

I have to say this is one of the first pieces of machinery I know nothing about. I thought it was a post about 6" scales or something. Someone post pics. I still use my antique TI-82 my dad bought me when I took Trig in 9th grade. I lost it for about 4 years and really enjoy the fact that it is one of my oldest tools(longest owned)
Tim


----------



## Lew Hartswick (Mar 21, 2008)

zeusrekning
I just sent you a couple of pix of some slide rules.
  ...lew...


----------



## Loose nut (Mar 21, 2008)

WHY?? 

A $15.00 solar powered calculator with all the bells and whistles is a far better solution.


----------



## gilessim (Mar 21, 2008)

Funnily enough, I also used a slide rule for years, 30 years in fact, I hate calculators ,but I bought one recently for inches to metric conversions ,here in Italy I'm obliged to be metric!, I always used tables for sin's, tan's etc. BTW all the plumbing tubing here is still in whitworth!, an inch is a "pollice" (pronounced polliche) in Italian, which means thumb!...

Giles


----------



## Bogstandard (Mar 21, 2008)

Loose Nut - Why?

We of the older generation didn't have the electronic gizmos that you have nowadays, and as I said, the first real calculators didn't come out until the early 70's.

So it was either longhand with pencil and paper, abacus if you could use one, or the slide rule, which was the scientific calculator of it's time. Most of the knowledgeable people chose the slide rule.


----------



## jgarrett (Mar 21, 2008)

I have a 4" round slide rule around somewhere..also have a 4 function Heathkit calculator that I paid $99 for!!!! Was a good deal back then. One of the first courses I took in the military extention classes was how to use a slide rule...they still facinate me
Julian G.


----------



## Stan (Mar 21, 2008)

I must be the antique here. About 1970 I was repairing 4 bangers made in Japan that had Nixie tube readouts with rows of boards covered with TTL chips. It sold for a measly $2200.00. Not many years after that my TI salesman showed up with a remarkable pocket calculator (4 banger with pi and square root) they called the electronic slide rule for $125.00. I stll have it and it still works well. I also have a 6" slide rule kicking around the shop somewhere.


----------



## rake60 (Mar 21, 2008)

Stan  said:
			
		

> I must be the antique here. About 1970 I was repairing 4 bangers made in Japan that had Nixie tube readouts with rows of boards covered with TTL chips.



Now that hurts! LOL
The first machine I ran that was equipped with a DRO had Nixie tube readouts.
Watching those numbers click away as the tool was approaching a hard shoulder was an 
exercise in concentration. 

I would more often than not set a dial indicator on the ways and depend on it rather then
the digitals. Now I depend on a computer to run the program I'd put in to do it all in a CNC 
and trust it completely.

When I got my first calculator I found myself checking it's answer with the slide rule.
In time I learned to trust it.


----------



## nkalbrr (Mar 22, 2008)

I had a slide rule in school. I think it got tossed. I remember in the early 70's when one of my teachers bought himself a LED watch , now they come in boxes of cereal


----------



## DICKEYBIRD (Mar 22, 2008)

Ahah! I looked around and found mine from high school in the sixties. I don't have a clue how to use it anymore. Those brain cells never made it out of the sixties alive. ;D

The thing even has a real leather case that is still in excellent condition.


----------



## SteveA (Mar 22, 2008)

Remember a buddy and I carrying slide rules around in junior high because we thought they were cool. Couldn't figure how to work them, though. Then we moved up to inexpensive scientific calclulators, first the TI-35, then the HP-15, which I still consider to be the ultimate.  Few years ago I rediscovered slide rules and now have a modest collection. Use one around here sometimes. Keep a couple in the desk at work and use one now and then. Usually when some youngster has said something about my age.  When the rediscovery happened, turned out I had no trouble figuring how to work them - with the benefit of a good technical education.

Steve


----------



## Loose nut (Mar 22, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Loose Nut - Why?
> 
> We of the older generation didn't have the electronic gizmos that you have nowadays, and as I said, the first real calculators didn't come out until the early 70's.
> 
> So it was either longhand with pencil and paper, abacus if you could use one, or the slide rule, which was the scientific calculator of it's time. Most of the knowledgeable people chose the slide rule.



I too learned how to use a slide ruler "back in the day", we did have calculators though. They covered half of the desk, punch in the numbers pull lever, punch in more numbers, pull lever, punch in function, pull lever, get answer on tape. The really fancy ones were electric. I don't miss any of them. 

Someone who was an expert with a slide rule could do wonders even by todays calculators standards but most of us were not experts, they are difficult to use and it is so easy to make a decimal point error, learning to use one properly took a long time. 

I bought my first calculator in '75, a Bomarc or some such, can't remember, to long ago for my worn out brain, it was a simple (by todays standards) 4 function with 2 memory locations, cost about $80.00 then, a week pay (military, they don't pay well) for me. 

You don't see many people (as in none) using slide rulers anymore because even the die hards learned that a $15.00 solar powered calc. will do more, is easier to learn and doesn't make as many decimal error's and as much as most of us "old farts" (yes I'm one of them too) would like to live in the "simpler" past sometimes you have to admit there are times when an update in technology is useful.


----------



## Bogstandard (Mar 23, 2008)

Ah!! Milton,

The deluxe model with a magnifier and leather cover, as sure sign of affluence. 

I couldn't afford those sorts of luxury accessories on a weekly spending salary of £1 -10 shillings ($3). I paid for mine on the drip, over I think, two months. In the days when they put it away for you until it was paid for. Unlike nowadays, where you can go out and buy whatever you want, over a squillion years.

I am sure many of us went almost blind, cramming for exams in bad lighting, trying to read the results. 

John


----------



## Rog02 (Mar 23, 2008)

This thread got me to thinking, so a quick inventory of my desk turned up the following,
Slide Rule Type Calculators:

One, POST VersaTrig 1450 Slide Rule
One, AccuMath 400 Slide Rule
Three, E-6B Flight Computers (Circular slide rules)
One, Mk 8-B Airspeed/Density Altitude Computer (Circular Slide Rule)
One, STIRLING Pocket Metric Converter (Slide Rule)
Five, Various Chip/Speed Calculators
 Electronic Calculators:

One, TI-92 Programmable Graphing Calculator
One, TI-85 Graphing Calculator
One, TI Compu-Link Cable (Connects the calculators to my Computer)
One, TI-83 Scientific Calculator
One, TI-30X-IIS Scientific Calculator (solar powered scientific)
Four, Electronic Calculator/Phonebook/Dayplanners
Five, "Advertising Freebie" Calculators

Not bragging, but rather trying to make the point that these things kind of creep into your life.

Like several of the other contributors, I was introduced to a slide rule when in junior high school (anyone else remember the BIG slide rule hanging over the chalkboard?). My math teacher was a customer on my paper route and would give me tutoring on weekends and over the summer months. At first I was taught to just operate the slip stick without understanding what made it work. When I took Electronics I in high school, the first semester was a crash course in math and the theory and use of slide rules. When I was working on my pilot license the instructors were amazed how quick I picked up on the E-6B.

I bought my first calculator shortly after after graduating high school but as it was rather restricted in functions I still found myself using the slide rule a lot. As calculators got better, I used them more and the slip stick less. 

When I finally got around to college at the advanced age of 40, I was shocked when I walked into math classes and was told that a calculator was needed. The classes consisted more of how to work a calculator than understanding the math. I even took a 2 credit hour course on TI-85 operation. While I will readily admit calculators make my life a lot easier, I am amazed at the number of people that have never been taught the basics of math. 

As I overheard an old flight instructor when his student insisted on using an electronic E-6B instead of learning to use a manual one, "What are you going to do when the batteries die?"

OK, rant off!

As Marv suggests, a programmable calculator can have the formulas we use on regular basis stored, ready for instant use. I pick up used TI-85s at garage sales for $10 or less and after downloading the desired programs from my desktop computer I scatter them around the shop.


----------



## Lew Hartswick (Mar 23, 2008)

If anyone wants to learn how to use a slide rule, I have a PDF file (about 3 meg) of a scan of a K&E 
booklet I did for a poster on RCM about a year ago. I think it's readable. (with a bit of eye strain) I havent
tried printing it out, just looked at on the monitor. If anyone want s to try a character recognition pgm.
on it youre welcome. 
  ...lew...


----------



## Loose nut (Mar 23, 2008)

Why knock the calculator. 

The fact that kids today can't do basic math, how many times have you had to wait at a cash register while a teenager working the till had to dig out a calculator to make change from a dollar sale while us older people can do it in our head, is not a reflection on the calculator or slide rule for that matter. It's because our schools don't teach children properly anymore. We had to learn the math tables, we had to be able to do math with a pencil and paper before we were taught how to use a slide rule, today kids learn how to use a calc. Something wrong there, but don't blame the gun 'cause someone pulled the trigger, calculator's are tools just like a computer or lathe or a slide rule, they don't replace basic knowledge and ability. A lathe isn't much good to someone who doesn't know how to use it and a brain isn't either. 

The next time someone says " what will you do when the batteries run down" just tell them the new solar powered calcs. can run off of a candle or even a camp fire, So after the fall of civilization kids will still be able to do math.


----------



## rake60 (Mar 24, 2008)

This thread got me to digging through the junk heaps again.

I found it! LOL

My Acumath No.150 Trig Log Log Slide Rule was made in about 1964.
It's actually in better condition than I remembered it to be.











Rick


----------



## bigsteve (Mar 25, 2008)

Loose nut  said:
			
		

> Why knock the calculator.
> 
> The fact that kids today can't do basic math, how many times have you had to wait at a cash register while a teenager working the till had to dig out a calculator to make change from a dollar sale while us older people can do it in our head, is not a reflection on the calculator or slide rule for that matter. It's because our schools don't teach children properly anymore. We had to learn the math tables, we had to be able to do math with a pencil and paper before we were taught how to use a slide rule, today kids learn how to use a calc. Something wrong there, but don't blame the gun 'cause someone pulled the trigger, calculator's are tools just like a computer or lathe or a slide rule, they don't replace basic knowledge and ability. A lathe isn't much good to someone who doesn't know how to use it and a brain isn't either.
> 
> The next time someone says " what will you do when the batteries run down" just tell them the new solar powered calcs. can run off of a candle or even a camp fire, So after the fall of civilization kids will still be able to do math.



Just to let you know - I'm from that generation, and can do math quite well, thank you very much... 

There's a reason they only get $5 an hour.

I bought a slide rule when I was in grad school and taught myself to use it. It is a billion times better for conversions from metric to imperial than a calculator (beats multiplying everything by .03937 fifty times).


----------



## Loose nut (Mar 25, 2008)

bigsteve  said:
			
		

> Just to let you know - I'm from that generation, and can do math quite well, thank you very much...



Well I guess there had to be one, 

but seriously, you probably went on to higher education because of your ability and maybe math skills, the way schools are run today I doubt that they could teach most students today how to use a slide rule.


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 25, 2008)

Allright I step in here. 

Changed my mind, I typed up some long argument but deleted it. I am 26. I was an honor student who slept through school. I'm in the south school was easy. I quit doing anything in my 11th grade chemistry class b/c of teacher and attitude problems so It was the only class I ever failed yet I still graduated with around a 3.4GPA. I wasn't good at math as a child then I got that good teacher who made it click. Since then I loved math. I think school was Bull$#!&. If you played the game right it was a cake walk. Now the schools do not make it appealing for the older more experienced people to be teachers. They want young fresh out of college teachers with all the BS theories of how to teach without having any real world knowledge to pass on.
My kids and your grandkids are being taught by children. I hate being judged b/c of my age but I believe teachers should be older more experienced individuals who can find those special ways of getting kids to understand things. You can't teach something well you don't fully understand yourself. 

If it weren't for the few knowledgeable old farts I had as teachers who knew how to teach I would not be where I am now. That is why I enjoy this forum so much. I wish I could milk all the knowledge I could out of you old fellas and hopefully pull my son away from the ps2 long enough to pass a little on myself. 
I have more but will stop ranting. 
I still have no idea how to read these slide rule things


----------



## Lew Hartswick (Mar 26, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> I still have no idea how to read these slide rule things


Well I sent you a couple of pics and offered to send anyone a K&E booklet on how to use one. If you 
want to learn. 
  ...lew...


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 26, 2008)

I got the pictures. Thanks for sending them. I may keep an eye out for one then try to learn and use it.


----------



## Brass_Machine (Mar 26, 2008)

Lew Hartswick  said:
			
		

> Well I sent you a couple of pics and offered to send anyone a K&E booklet on how to use one. If you
> want to learn.
> ...lew...



I am up for the booklet ;D

Eric


----------



## Lew Hartswick (Mar 27, 2008)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> I am up for the booklet ;D
> 
> Eric



Sent . Hope it's readable and helpfull. If I can answer any questions that are unclear in the booklet
e-mail me.
  ...lew...


----------



## bentprop (Mar 27, 2008)

> an inch is a "pollice" (pronounced polliche) in Italian, which means thumb!...


That's interesting.My father was a cabinetmaker in Holland.He always referred to nails as so many "thumb".I presume that was the same inch measurement,because Holland has been metric pretty much since it was invented.
And then there was the "Ell",used in the clothing trade.Apparently,this was the measurement from shoulder to elbow of the salesman.Tough luck if you got some short @#$sed little fat fellow,who could barely reach the countertop.I guess that's why "real" measures were standardised.

p.s.My apologies to all little short @#@[email protected] sed fat fellows,no comparison was intended :big: :big:


----------

