# Small Locomotive & Boiler (ME Northumbrian)



## doubletop (Aug 25, 2011)

Since I did my first basic boiler last year I've always fancied making a 'real' locomotive boiler. The problem is that the materials are expensive and a cock up can be painful. I then stumbled across the boiler for the Northumbrian serialised in ME in 2009.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=6974

Its small and based on 3" tube, which I had in stock. I also had material for most of the other parts so decided to give it a go. Here is progress so far.





















































Its going pretty well and had been a bit cautious about doing the bushes so have left them to last. I probably should have done them first. 

It's been parked for the past month as we had a quick trip to Blighty. I could get back to it over the weekend

Pete


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## NickG (Aug 25, 2011)

Looks really nice, are you making the rest of the loco?!


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## Jasonb (Aug 25, 2011)

Looking good, if you are going to make the rest of the loco be sure to look at all the threads about it on ME's forum, It took a lot of effort to convince the editor that the frame drawing was wrong, there should be a revised one on there somewhere.

J


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## doubletop (Aug 26, 2011)

Jason you'll recall you put me straight on the drawings fiasco over on the ME forum, so yes I'm making the rest, or that's the intention. Part of the instructions for the boiler are something like "test the size in the frames as its a tight fit" so I saw no point in making the boiler, deciding to finish the job and then realising the boiler wouldn't fit. So I've done the frames, I just happened to have enough stock for those to.
































You'll notice there is nothing that has required any purchases. I took the view that I'd wait to see how successful I was with the boiler before investing in castings.

The odds and sods of large head bolts are only temporary to hold it all together. I have small head BA bolts to replace them.

This it what it looked like originally






and what it should look like when finished






You've seen it all now, that's as far as I've got.

Pete


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## arnoldb (Aug 26, 2011)

Good going Pete :bow:

You had me puzzled with the big hole in the backhead, until I realised it's for the fire door!

Frames look great :bow:

3" boiler ? - so will the loco be for 3 1/2" gauge ? 

Regards, Arnold


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## doubletop (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks Arnold; yes its 3 1/2" gauge. I'm going to gas fire it as I'm all set up to do that for my Rob Roy.

After a 3 week lay of I'm just about to go out to the workshop and pick up where I left off. I'll also be ordering the castings from GLR over the weekend.

Pete


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## metalmad (Aug 26, 2011)

That Boiler looks Fantastic 
I love it :bow: :bow:
Pete


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## doubletop (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks Pete

 I've just had a day in the workshop and started getting the bushes installed and in between I've been working on the conrods. I'd got stuck on the workholding while doing the various profiles so put them aside and went on holiday. Came back to it today and just picked them up and finished them. I find that's always a good policy rather than pressing on and stuffing up the job

Pete


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## don-tucker (Aug 27, 2011)

Very similar to LBSC Rainhill




This was made by my brother an myself 45 years ago,takes me back a bit.
Don


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## doubletop (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks Don very nice and the picture is useful. The series is titled "a second look at Rainhill", basically its an update but its all new to me so have no idea what the original was like. Without any decent historical pictures the result is open to interpretation.

Pete


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## SBWHART (Aug 28, 2011)

Just picked this thread up. 

The loco and boiler is looking great.

Stew


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## metalmad (Aug 28, 2011)

Don
 the patina of age on that engine is simply wonderful
Pete


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## doubletop (Aug 28, 2011)

Thanks Stew

Unless I've missed it I'm looking forward to you making some more progress on yours. That's of course once you've done with articles for ME. I see you've go two on the go in the latest issue, well done.

Latest update: I got all the bushes in over the weekend, made up some blanks and give it a quick low pressure hydraulic test. From what I can see, so far, only one minor leak from one bush. I'll do a more controlled test later in the week.

Pete


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## doubletop (Aug 30, 2011)

A bit of an update. The bushes are done so I gave the boiler a bit of a cleanup and had the smokebox in the sandblaster, to give it a zap and a coat of 650degC paint.












Just to make it look the part the safety valve, start of the regulator and inner steam dome are is with some of the plugs ready for the pressure test.

I've met my original objective, so its time to call GLR and order the wheels and castings

Pete


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## doubletop (Sep 17, 2011)

It's been a few weeks so a bit of an update on this. I got to the point of a preliminary pressure test, it was really a leak test, and I had a couple of small leaks and was in two minds how to deal with them.

My local ME supplier suggested I use Harris 'Bridgit' http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Soldering/Lead-Free-Solders/Bridgit.aspx to calk the leaks. I wasn't happy about this as one of the leaks was on the foundation ring so decide to use silver solder.

The upshot of this decision is that I've been going round in circles fixing leaks and creating more and getting more and more dejected as I went. What I thought was a reasonable first effort as a proper boiler is becoming a bit of a mess. I take heart from a statement in the Martin Harris Loco boilers book, along the lines of, "the best of us get leaks". At leats it hasn't fallen apart into a pile of bits, I did make it mechanically sound rather than rely on the solder to hold it together.

The lessons learned from this are I really got to know how my gas torch works and how to get the heat where I want it and next time I'll use stepped temp ranges on the silver solder.

Pete


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## ozzie46 (Sep 17, 2011)

That's a good looking boiler.
Sorry to hear about your trials but I'm confident that you'll get it sorted.

 Ron


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## doubletop (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks Ron

Sorry about the tardy response but I think I've got it sorted now. 

I chased all the leaks down by using low pressure air from a cycle pump, with the boiler under water, puncture repair style. This wasn't pressure testing it was leak tracking with no more than 20 psi. Once I got to the point where I had no bubbles I switched to the proper pressure testing procedure by filling the boiler with water. I took it to 120psi and held it there for long enough to be satisfied that it wasn't leaking and its ready to be taken to the club inspector for the formal inspection and test. We'll see how that goes. In the meantime I've been churning out various other parts. Pictures later

Just to make the point for those who have missed this important message in previous posts , *NEVER PRESSURE TEST A BOILER WITH AIR*

Pete


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## doubletop (Oct 17, 2011)

I do need to do a bit of an update. The castings were ordered from GLR and while in transit I got on with a few odds and ends as the fancy took me

*Con rods*







*Regulator

*











*Valve linkage*







*Wheels*

The main wheels went pretty well on my little lathe but for some reason I couldn't get the set up rigid enough for the small wheels.







How I fixed that problem is over http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=16001.0












*Eccentrics*

The new lathe made these a breeze.













*Chimney, base and cap*







*Trial fit*











As for the boiler I took it to the club for pressure test. The inspector was happy with the construction but I had a couple of weeps that are best dealt with rather than hope they rectify themselves. To be frank I've got to choose the right time to attack it with the torch again. It will happen.

That's it for now. Next major step is the castings, either the eccentric straps or cylinders. I'll use my favoured decision process, the day it feels right I'll get on with it.

Pete


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## ozzie46 (Oct 18, 2011)

Looking good Pete. It's looking like a loco now.

Your new lathe looks similar to mine,do mine do A Grizzly 10 x 22.

 I know you will enjoy it as much as I do mine.

 Ron



 Edie;;  Took a closer look at the lathe pic. Yours appears to be bigger than mine and appears to have power cross feed as well. Oh well at least the "shape" of the head stock appears the same.


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## arnoldb (Oct 18, 2011)

Good going Pete Thm:

I'm glad to see you're enjoying the bigger lathe!

I'm wondering how the regulator will work; the taper on the needle end of the spindle seems to be a bit blunt/steep , so would it not be very sensitive to small regulator arm movements ?

Keep up the good work!

Kind regards, Arnold


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## blighty (Oct 18, 2011)

looking good ;D

i have a question about your boiler.

at the mo i'm starting work on a 2" burrell boiler. its about 10" long with an o/d of 4"ish (that's the boiler tube). i'm having problems with getting enough heat into it.

how did you go about welding your boiler?


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## doubletop (Oct 19, 2011)

Ron

Thanks

I pondered over what lathe to buy, but in NZ there isn't a huge choice of this type of lathe. I couldn't get much by way of reviews either, apart from a couple of Ozzies on HMEM with Hafco's. Once I'd bought it I then found that there are a lot of people out there with a lathe from this range, re-branded by the importer , Hafco, Crusader, Grizzley and no doubt many others. When I found John Bogstandard has the same model I knew there were to be no more excuses.

Arnold 

Thanks

The same thought crossed my mind, but I've built it to the drawings. I also checked the Rob Roy drawings and that's 90deg as well. I'm pressing on, its a long weekend coming up so may just start on the castings.

Blighty

Thanks

I had all those problems and had to work on getting it right, solder, flux, torches, gas, hearth and technique. (no welding involved)

This is my biggest torch 85Kw. I haven't used it this way but I understand 'normal practice' is to have a helper on the big torch keeping the job hot and then use a small torch to heat locally. I've no idea how that works with this flame thrower going. It can get very hot just holding it








Take a look at my other boiler threads to see how well they went, or not. That's why I did this boiler to learn more. Even teh technique of holding the torch at the right distance from the job was realised recently. That big torch is way hotter when 18" from the job than closer in.

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Oct 19, 2011)

Blighty,

When I assisted Stew with the boiler for his 3.5" loco, it took 10 to 15 minutes with a big torch on the outside to get enough heat into it, and that was with a burner like Pete showed.

One thing you musn't do is try to do your soldering without enough heat, once that solder begins to move, you've got to finish the job, otherwise the chemical properties of the solder changes and it takes a lot more heat to remelt it and get it to flow again.

For the larger boilers, which I reckon yours is, it is a two man job to get it done without struggling.


John


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## blighty (Oct 20, 2011)

thx for the tips gents.

i was thinking about putting it on a bad of charcoal and heating it up that way, then go in with the blowtorch.

if that don't work ill see if i can borrow i BIG torch like you have ;D


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## Florian (Oct 25, 2011)

blighty  said:
			
		

> i was thinking about putting it on a bad of charcoal and heating it up that way,



That should work quite well. But you will have to remember that the charcoal will be very hot when burning. So you will need heat protective gloves to do the soldering or you need to somehow cover the fire so there is not much heat radiation. 

Regards, Florian


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## PeteH (Nov 23, 2011)

Looking at the regulator you are intending to do the superheated version?

Pete


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## doubletop (Nov 23, 2011)

Pete

That's the plan, yet to source the stainless tube but I haven't been looking that hard, but that's a bit of a way off yet.

Current challenge is the motion and get the chassis running. I'm slowly working through the various parts and really owe an update here as I've been turning various bits out quite steadily since my last post. I want to get it on air by Christmas, which I think is doable. 

Our club is in the process of completely renewing its raised track with the grand opening scheduled for Feb 6 which is a public holiday over here. Whether I get it running for that is another question a bit of a race with one of the other members who is doing Canterbury Lamb, but he started a year ahead of me.

I may do a few more pics over this weekend. Thanks for looking in

Pete


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## doubletop (Nov 27, 2011)

I've promised a few more pictures of progress

Eccentrics, nothing out of the ordinary here, just my first set of 'real' eccentrics. I followed the instructions in the write up, more or less.








I started the water pump and struggled at first trying to work out how to turn the casting I'd been sent into the pump in the drawings. I came to the conclusion I had the wrong casting so fabricated it. 







*Water Pump parts*







*Assembled*







I had to get myself into the right frame of mind before I started on the cylinders. We had long weekend so it was time to just get on with it. After a number of sessions in the workshop it all came together.

*Cylinders, end caps & pistons*







Then it was a case of the other bits and bobs, 

*Cross heads and guides*







*Valve chest covers* 






Getting this far it was time to start the trial assembly this needed the main wheels, axles and eccentrics assembling.

*Quartering the wheels* with gauge blocks holding one drive pin horizontal







*checking the other is at right angles*






By this time the assembly bench was getting a bit untidy






But its coming together












You'll notice the valve chests are missing well I started them and then found the cavity in the castings was the wrong size. Replacement castings are on their way.






















Well that's it so far. It's coming along. Thanks for looking in

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 16, 2011)

Its that time.........

The replacement steam chests are winging there way over here from the UK but I couldn't wait so made some temporary chests from aluminiuim. A bit of fitting to get all the parts working together and some silicon gasket and I've had it running on air.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEDLqLKn7pA

Now I need to work through those bits and bobs to get it plumbed in. 

_{edit - now video appears in the link}_

Pete


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## arnoldb (Dec 16, 2011)

Good going Pete ;D - It runs like a champ Thm:

Kind regards, Arnold


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## smfr (Dec 16, 2011)

Wow, that's coming along great! And so smooth and quiet in the video!


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## doubletop (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks Guys

The timing is just an eyeball job for now but it is reasonably OK, you can just hear a bit of a knock in the background but I think that's one of the steam chest guides not quite right. That will get sorted when the new chests turn up. The left hand valve chest was leaking which contributed to the hissing noises. 

Only one problem that I realised when it was too late. There is a flat on the main axle for the water pump. I didn't pay any attention to its orientation when I quartered the wheels. The upshot being that the pump eccentric is just about in sync with the left hand valve eccentric going forward and the right hand one going in reverse. It probably won't be a problem but I'm sure would look nicer if all three were out of phase. I can always do another flat.

All in all happy with it.

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 16, 2011)

Another video

I gave it a run on my rollers for a better view of how it runs. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qE2vOQyGHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qE2vOQyGHY[/ame]

You'll see its bouncing around a bit. If you look at the right hand roller you can see its not concentric (neither is the left one). I could say I designed the rollers this way so they gave the loco a more realistic environment and ensured running in exercised all the drive train components including the axle boxes, springs, rod ends etc. The truth is I had taken some stock 19mm aluminium bar, drilled 1/8" holes in each end and Loctited some 1/8" silver steel in each ends and mounted the result in some small bearings I had. Concentricity wasn't considered. Also the springs are off the shelf DIY store items cut in half, so won't have the correct rate.

Anyway a bit more realistic example rather than ruining in free space with no real load. Most of the noise is the interaction of the wheels and rollers

Pete


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## Groomengineering (Dec 16, 2011)

Looks great Pete!!

Cheers

Jeff


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## PeteH (Dec 19, 2011)

Excellent work Peter,

Hope mine runs as well, all praise to the master  :bow:

What size wire did you use for the driving and trailing springs out of interest - 22 gauge (0.64mm?) seems pretty thick to me.


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## doubletop (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks Jeff its getting there but still plenty to stuff up yet.

Pete 

Thank you as well, I'm quite pleased with the way it runs right now. I don't think I warrant "master" I'm also new to this stuff, a good number of the operations I'm doing for the first time. That's really why I started the boiler just to give making one a try. The running chassis was sort of a logical next step.

The front springs I'm using are 22swg off the shelf items cut in half. They seem about right. The back ones are proving way to light. I'd say the quoted wire guages are correct, you'll be surprised how much they load up with everything mounted.

Pete


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## PeteH (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback Doubletop. I have a build threads of my Northumbrian on livesteambuilds.com and http://modeleng.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general if you are interested.

Pete


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## Smifffy (Dec 21, 2011)

....very nice!

Smifffy


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## doubletop (Dec 22, 2011)

Smiffy

Thanks for looking in, and very helpful that you did. I had a look over on your Royal Scott, site very nice indeed. I see you say _"what is far from a simple model - if only I had known that back when I started!"_ when the first paragraph of the fist ME article on the Royal Scott says _"This model is intended for the more experienced loco builder."_!!

Anyway; why was it useful? Yesterday I collected a second hand Simplex that I have purchased, it needs reworking, particularly in the valve gear area. Amongst other things it requires two new cross heads. And the first of your pages I looked at was making the cross heads. They are a slightly different design to the Simplex originals but being Martin Evans they are very similar. The one piece design may well be a better option than the core and side plates of the Simplex design. I may just make them the way you have done them.

Now I've got two projects on the go and I said I'd never do that.........

regards

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 22, 2011)

Smiffy - PS

And just found the video of your Royal Scott running on air with only a single cylinder. Very nice indeed.

_(others I suggest you click the link at the bottom of Smiffys post and go and take a look)_

Pete


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## Smifffy (Dec 22, 2011)

Thank you for the very kind words Pete.

I didn't get hold of Martin's articles from ME until after I had decided to go for the Royal Scot - but with hindsight, I am still very happy with my choice. It may be more difficult than some of the simpler designs to make, but the reality is, is that for a non machinist _any_ loco will be quite difficult - so difficulty is only really relative 

Good luck on the Crossheads for your Simplex - do keep us posted on how your approach them and the outcome.

Cheers

Smifffy


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## doubletop (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm trying my best to save the Simplex for the winter (summer here at the mo'). Which should give me enough time to get the Northumbrian onto steam. The materials for the last odds and sods came yesterday (turret, steam pipe union's, oiler banjo's, exhaust etc etc) and I've also ordered the fittings from Poly/Bruce Engineering. I find I can do these small parts pretty quickly in the evenings but once we get Christmas over I'm going to get a few straight days at it, so no excuses. I just need to keep away from the Simplex.

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 22, 2011)

So much for doing the odds and sods in the evenings. I got out into the workshop today and got stuck in








From the top left

1: Part 96 - Water Gauge elbow

2: Part 97 - Turret

3: Part 105 - Steam Pipe Union (x2)

4: Part 106 - Oil Union (banjo) superheated version (x2)

5: Part 89 - Exhaust Elbow (x2)

6: Part 88 - Exhaust Elbow Back Nut (x2)

7: Part 87 - Exhaust Elbow Union Nut (x2)

8: Part 85 - Exhaust Tee

9: Part 86 - Blast Pipe (see note below)

They are all in the pickle overnight for silver soldering tomorrow, not a big job.

Here's the exhaust assembly just pushed together.







The blast pipe is another example of poor drawings in ME. This is made from 1/4" hex and isn't even 1/2" long from the dimensions. The drawing width/height ratio is around 1:4 not 1:2. I've made mine to the dimensions fully expecting to have to make another one. Although having a set of different blast pipes isn't a bad thing when tuning locos.

Unless I get some time in the workshop tomorrow that's it now until the holiday is over. So seasons greetings to you all have a Happy Christmas.

Pete


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## PeteH (Dec 23, 2011)

Hi DT,

Lovely work sir, 

Did you file the curves on the exhaust elbows out of interest or do you use a rotary table?

Hope you also have a great Christmas and New Year

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 27, 2011)

Back after the holiday and managed to sneak into the workshop for brief periods.

Pete. I did the radius on the exhaust elbows in the rotary table. I used 1/2" sqr bar offset in the four jaw to turn the threaded stubs and drill the concentric hole. That was then transferred to the mill and the centered and the hole at right angles for the exhaust pipes was drilled. Then to the rotary table and secured by the threaded stub to do that radius and then onto an arbor for the exhaust pipe hole to do the other radius.

The replacement valve chests arrived from GLR on Christmas eve morning and by the end of the day the milling had been done. I left the holes for the gland nut, steam inlet and lubricator inlet until today as something bothered me so I decided to stop. I'm glad I did. Once again the drawings in Model engineer are wrong and if you are making the super heated version of this loco to magazine articles you need to be aware. It isn't helped by the fact that dimensions are spread around various drawing published in different issues. If you make the chests in part 8 by the time you get to the lubricator plumbing in part 13 you'll be doing them again or adding the lubricator pluming differently.

The steam chest drawing (item 31) in Part 8 has a number of dimensions missing 

1) thickness nears bolting face (with exhaust port) = 1/4"
2) width of cavity 9/16"
3 outside wall thickness 3/16"
4) centreline 17/32" from bolting face

Other hole locations are given in item 42 also in Part 8. 

If you are doing the superheater version you can't put the inlet port on the center line. By the time you get to Item 100 in issue 13 the lubricator banjo mount is shown to 5/16" inboard of the the inlet port. If you drill the 3mm hole for the 4BA tap it will go right through the rear inboard stud hole. See attached pdf, I've moved the inlet port and lubricator banjo 1/16" outboard. The inlet doesn't need to be in line with the valve rod as it doesn't reach that far back on the rearward stroke.

I was so close to stuffing up my third set of steam chests I was not a happy chappy _(wrong castings, temporary pair and replacements)_

Anyway here we are












Pete 

View attachment Steam Chest Northumbrian.pdf


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## doubletop (Dec 29, 2011)

Time to move on to something that isn't in the ME write up, the burner for gas firing. I've based it on the version I made for my Rob Roy but this time I've done it in stainless rather than copper (use what you've got).

I got all the parts completed today, except for the jet, that came from Polly Model Eng. 







Loose fitted, ready for a silver soldering session tomorrow.







The pipes through the middle are to improve the secondary air flow as the burner has to be made as big as possible to fit the firebox. You don't want to need to draw air through the firedoor and if you don't have enough secondary air the burner will go out. The cross bars are to support the ceramic, it can slump if not supported

There's a full writeup of this approach to burners here http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=10883.0

The ceramic I'm using, also from Poly Model Eng







Hope that's useful to somebody

Pete


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## doubletop (Dec 31, 2011)

Finished the burner today







And tried it out.








These burners don't work too well in open air and need to be enclosed and in a bit of a draw as it would in the firebox.

Installed in the frames.








You'll see a bit of the plumbing in the background, I've been doing that between work on the burner. I'll show you that next year (its only 6 hours to go for us in NZ)

Happy New Year everybody

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 1, 2012)

As promised some pictures of the plumbing. I don't have the fittings yet as they are somewhere between the UK and NZ, which means the bypass valve isn't installed just yet.

















BTW - you can see the valve gear pivots are too short on the outboard side. They were made to the dimensions in the ME writeup but are wrong. I need to remake them.










































I feel I'm on the home straight with this now with just a handful of parts to complete the loco. Then I need to start on the tender

Thanks for looking in.

Pete


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## smfr (Jan 1, 2012)

This is looking really good!


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## PeteH (Jan 1, 2012)

Great Work DT,

Hope mine is going to look at least half as good. You should be very proud of your work so far. Is it my eyes or are the cylinders missing the central bolts to the frame ?


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## doubletop (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks guys I'm feeling pretty good about where I'm at right now. Apart from making it run, which is something else, I've got past the hard bits.

Pete - Yes you are right they are missing. I put everything together just for the photos, the boiler has been in and out 5 times today. By the end it will be down to all the individual parts many more times.

I'm learning as I go that's the point of this project, this is my first loco build from scratch. One thing I am aware of at this stage is making it all go together with the foresight of the bit you haven't done yet, otherwise things just start to get in the way of each other and re-makes are on the cards. Now I've got all the major bits in place I could think about a complete strip down and painting the frames, however, I know once I get it steamed up there will be something that needs a tweak and a complete strip down again which could mess up the paint job. How do I know, this was my first foray into this stuff just 18 months ago

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9516.0

I think I had this completely in bits around 3 times before it got to a proper working state.

Keep up the good work with your projects

Pete


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## ozzie46 (Jan 1, 2012)

Pete, This is really looking nice. I know what you mean about tearing things down several times. :big: :big: :big: My Simplex and I have become very very intimate. :big: :big: :big: :big:


  Ron


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## kvom (Jan 1, 2012)

Looks nice. I'll be doing my plumbing in the next couple of months, so that'll be a learning experience.

Did you make or buy your lubricator? I was wondering why the output tube was so large compared to the steam pipes.


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## Blogwitch (Jan 1, 2012)

Pete,



> How do I know, this was my first foray into this stuff just 18 months ago



I have been following you since your first tentative steps, and I must say, now you are up with the best of them.

You have shown that you are a natural model engineer.

Well done, and keep it up, you have nothing to prove any more.

John


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## Jasonb (Jan 1, 2012)

Talking of lubricators do you have any check valves in the line as I can't see any?

Its comming along well.

J


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## doubletop (Jan 1, 2012)

*Ron*

Thanks, a Simplex is my next project, its sat in the garage right now looking a bit sad it was built in 1994 and from what I can tell hasn't been run in about 10 years. The underside is caked in oil coal dust and sand. It needs a complete strip down and can't wait to get stuck into it. One thing at a time though.

*Kvom*

The lubricator came out of my Rob Roy, its a commercial item to the LBSC design. The stroke was too long so was pumping too much oil so I replaced it with the Martin Evans design that should have been fitted. The outlet is a standard 1/4" x 40 connection hence the thicker pipe to the small manifold with thinner tube to each of the steam chests. On this I've set the stroke so it only does about 2 clicks on the ratchet.

When it comes to the plumbing one of these is a great help in getting nice bends. RECORD 210 MINIBENDER * Bending Capacity:3, 4, 6mm 1/8"/5/32"/1/4". COPPER TUBE/STEEL/STAINLESS






*John*

Thank you; praise from you is praise indeed. I've seen you as my mentor on this journey, the advice you have given me over the past 2 years has got me through on more occasions than I can remember. Thanks again.

*Jason*

The lubricator has a check valve and I realise normal practice is to have another in line, I think the ME write up acknowledges this. I'm going to see how it goes, there is an opportunity to fit one in the short line up to the manifold. Actually while writing this I have through of a way of doing it as I have a spare lubricator check valve that could probably fit into the manifold.

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 5, 2012)

A bit more progress since the last update I've made the; 


firebox door,
lid for the oil tank,
handrails
regulator lever

In addition the fittings arrived from Poly Model so I could get those installed







You'll notice that the hand rails aren't as described in the ME write up. To my mind they were a bit half arsed even though they tried to look a bit like whatever records exist of the original






However, I did like the hand rails Don and his brother did 45 years ago for their rendition of LBSC's Rainhill. So I copied them from Dons photo

_(Dons photo is on PhotoBucket so is AWOL currently)_






More












Only a handful of parts to do now, the couplings, cylinder cladding, blower pipe and the super heaters. I've now found a source of 1/4" stainless pipe for the super heaters so once I get hold of that I can make the pipework for each end. Once that's all done it will be ready for a complete strip down, clean up, paint and final assembly. Oh; and of course then there's the tender........

regards all

Pete


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## PeteH (Jan 5, 2012)

Hi DT,

I reckon the wooden handrails look a bit over scale to me - I assume you are hiding the steel frame constriction with them. I think thinner would look better but hey, it's your engine and make it to ring your bells, not mine  I went for the handrails as drawn - they are pickling at the moment after silver soldering this morning.


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## doubletop (Jan 5, 2012)

Pete

It did cross my mind, that's what I had to hand, they are only on there with double sided tape as a try out. On scale; the fittings are a bit big as well, but there isn't much by way of choice. For a loco as small as this its going to be a problem. From what I can see almost all fittings tend to be very similar and can trace their origin back to LBSC's Shop, Shed and Road.

Pete


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## PeteH (Jan 5, 2012)

Scale fittings wouldn't fit non-scaled hands :big:


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## don-tucker (Jan 5, 2012)

Looking real nice Pete and thanks for the compliment.
Don


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## firebird (Jan 5, 2012)

Hi Pete

I like that, I really like that. Can I have it please ;D ;D Thm: Thm:

Cheers

Rich


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## doubletop (Jan 6, 2012)

Rich

Thanks; and that would be a nice idea but I've got people down here who are expecting it to be theirs....

regards, and thanks for looking in

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 10, 2012)

Rich

I had meant to add; If it hadn't been for your "small boiler" thread back in 2010 this model wouldn't exist. It was finding your thread (and HMEM) that made me decide to try a boiler for myself, which set me on this journey.

Thanks

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 10, 2012)

A bit more progress made over the last few days making the couplings, cylinder cladding, blower pipe and the super heaters, and header. So its time for a strip down of the frames, a session in the sandblaster, clean up and paint. 









I'm using 3M heatproof paint so this just needs 24 hour to dry and then a session in the barbecue at 200degC to bake the paint.

Pete


----------



## PeteH (Jan 10, 2012)

Any colour as long as it's black?

I have found that there are degrees (pun intended) of heat proof paint.

650 degree Black only - usually sold for BBQs
Then there are two lower heat types - one for automotive engines in a selection of colours (300 degree) and one for calipers in a selection of colours
All available from your local automotive store. However I think my Northumbrian will be mainly 650 degree matt black like Peters


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## doubletop (Jan 10, 2012)

Not just black, any colour you like from 3M, including black, SuperCheap Auto stock it. I have "Rocket Red", but didn't think it appropriate. The benefit of using this paint is no primer is required and if its baked properly its pretty durable. However before baking its very susceptible to oil and solvents, even from your fingers, so keep your hands off it and get it baked as soon as you can.

I'm using the 650degC for the smokebox and backhead as its matt, but the frames, 300degC as its semi gloss. The temp range is not really relevant as if anything gets as hot as 300degC there's a major problem. 

Pete


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## PeteH (Jan 10, 2012)

I sit corrected ;D


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## doubletop (Jan 11, 2012)

Not corrected, informed ;D

Anyway it was baking day today, gas mark 7 or 220deg C








25 minutes in the barbeque, and job done. _I've just noticed it says "temperature indicator" so really 220degC give or take a wombat - (its from Oz)_







Time to let it cool down and then re-assembly













Now I must do something about those wheels and cylinder covers........

Pete


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## PeteH (Jan 11, 2012)

Wow - thats really nice :bow:


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## doubletop (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks Pete, it's getting there

_________________________________________________

There were just a few more bits of pipework to do to complete the super-heater header and the connecting pipes to the steam chests. They took ages to get all lined up. I'd suggest that the way the drawings have the lubricator connection inboard of the steam pipes needs to be reconsidered. I've already suggested that the the connections need to be moved, but now I'd also suggest that the lubricator unions need to be outboard of the steam pipe elbow. They just get in the way otherwise. I had no choice so had to remake the elbows longer so it would all go together.

Anyway I got it done in the end and also added all the other fittings.






So the time had come to connect it all up and see what happens

Water input and return feeds and gas pipe.







My 'micro blower' made from a computer fan. Its made this way in an attempt to stop steam going directly through the fan, 







And of course light it up.







To be honest it took some work to get it going and as the boiler isn't certified (its done the pressure test) the plan was to keep the pressure below 30psi (working pressure is 80psi)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PBPEbrN-qY[/ame]

There's a bit of a knock in there somewhere and the burner needs a bit of work to get it to burn better, but its a start. Time for a complete strip down finishing, lagging, cladding, painting etc

Pete


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## PeteH (Jan 14, 2012)

Congratulations Pete, 

progress is being made indeed. You state it took some work to get it going - was that in relation with the gas heater not performing as well as you had hoped? 

I bet you're on a bit of a high at the moment 

Well done again, and looking forward to some footage with it pulling you.
PeteH


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## Maryak (Jan 14, 2012)

That's Fantastic :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


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## doubletop (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks guys

The timing was slightly out, it was OK on air but on steam it made the difference. This model doesn't have any cylinder drain cocks (maybe it should) I'm forming the view that with the timing out the condensate was causing one stroke or the other to hydraulic lock.

The burner is burning with an orange flame which I believe is due incorrect gas/primary air mix (not enough air). The jet is as far back in the holder as I can get it right now, but the rear air holes are still partially covered. It just needs looking at. I'll also play around with the jets, I'm using a #10 jet because that's the biggest I had spare, I have a #5 and my Rob Roy uses a #15. I also haven't included the "baffle" I have in the Rob Roy. It prevents the draw of the blower/blast pipe pulling the flame off the top of the burner. 







Plenty to play with. The thing is the grate area on this is not that much smaller than the Rob Roy however the boiler is much smaller. If I get the burner running like the Rob Roy burner it will just about be flash steam, In the right conditions I can get the Rob Roy from cold to safety's blowing in about 8 mins.

So yes feeling pretty good at the moment it's always a major milestone. Its not finished by a long shot but I like to get to this point early as soon as possible to be able find out what is wrong. I take the view the sooner you find out the better and you can do something about it. No point in building it to its final state to find out a major rework is required.

Pulling me may be a long way off. Our club track is in the process of being rebuilt and it doesn't look like it will be done before the end of summer.






And the other local 3 1/2" gauge track is also out of action as the council are doing major works in the park it's in, so I couldn't run it if I wanted to.

regards

Pete


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## metalmad (Jan 14, 2012)

Well done Pete 
Fantastic run 
I loved the video
Pete


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## ozzie46 (Jan 14, 2012)

Now that's a busy backhead! Well done. :bow: :bow: :bow:
Looking forward to the video of it pulling you when the track work is done.

 Ron


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## doubletop (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks Pete/Ron

A bit of a way to go yet. I had a bit of a side bet with the club chairman as to what would be finished first, the loco or the track. As there is still some work to go before its capable of pulling a load and I haven't done the tender yet its likely to be the track.

Pete


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## firebird (Jan 14, 2012)

Oh I like it even more now th_wav

Cheers

Rich


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## PeteH (Jan 14, 2012)

It's small enough to bring to Perth mate ;D - our tracks fine :big:


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## doubletop (Jan 15, 2012)

Rich/Pete

Thanks; but its still going to have to stay in NZ and I'm afraid unlikely to get anywhere near the UK or do a quick trip to Perth. Sorry about that. In fact it's a pile of bits again as I prep for the painting.







I did make something today, the boiler bands and prepared the hardwood cladding.







The wood is just strapped to a length of the copper tube with rubber bands while the finish dries.

regards

Pete


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## SBWHART (Jan 15, 2012)

Looking very good Pete

Stew


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## doubletop (Jan 15, 2012)

Jasonb  said:
			
		

> Talking of lubricators do you have any check valves in the line as I can't see any?



After yesterdays run the lubricator was full of water, however the oil had gone. I'm assuming that the small amount of oil I'd put in had pumped through and with nothing left condensing steam came back. Either way not good with only 30 psi boiler pressure, so there's something to look into there. That second check valve may be necessary.

On the subject of pumps and valves, is it accepted practice to put pumps in series? That is; the tender pump is in the feed line to the axle pump? If it isn't I can't see how the tender hand pump and water feed/return are connected up. The ME article doesn't explain. It can't go in the bypass line as the check valve in the pump would impede the return flow.

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 15, 2012)

Thanks Stew. You're turning out a lot of stuff yourself these days, I'm barely keeping up with you.

regards 

Pete


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## arnoldb (Jan 15, 2012)

;D A belated congratulations on the first steam run Pete !

She's turning out to be a real beauty Thm:

I can't recall, are you using a mechanical lubricator or displacement type ? - if using displacement, it will get more condensate in it at 30psi than at 80, as the steam is at a lower temperature and condenses more quickly...

Kind regards, Arnold


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## steamer (Jan 15, 2012)

Looking great Pete!

The first run is always very satisfying!

Dave


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## doubletop (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks Arnold and Dave

The lubricator is mechanical the LBSC piston type, with a non return valve in the base. As Jason had the second valve may become necessary.

regards

Pete


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## doubletop (Jan 18, 2012)

I've painted the few parts that needed colour. The version in ME was green so mine had to be something else. Somebody had pointed out the original was pink (I think that came from a faded tint on one of the contemporary sketches). Well it wasn't going to be pink but a red seemed OK.







​




​
Trial assembly really but that's it for now as it needs to be ready for our club open day in a few weeks time. Then it's down to making it run.

Pete


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## steamer (Jan 18, 2012)

That's a great build Pete! The red looks great against the wood lagging...... :bow:

Dave


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## arnoldb (Jan 18, 2012)

:bow: That looks great Pete; I really like the colour scheme!

Kind regards, Arnold


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## PeteH (Jan 18, 2012)

Not pink - Lilac ;D

Seriously, at the opening of the railway there were quite a few locomotives and each loco was painted the colour to match it's tickets so that the passengers knew which train to catch!

Absolutely fabulous work Pete. th_wav  :bow: :bow:


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## don-tucker (Jan 18, 2012)

Congratulations Pete,a thing to be proud of,my brother and I have enjoyed following the build,takes us back a few years.How about the tender?
Thank you
Don


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## cfellows (Jan 18, 2012)

Superb job, Pete! Very nice looking and a really interesting steam loco.

Chuck


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## doubletop (Jan 20, 2012)

Dave, Pete, Arnold, Don, Chuck

Thanks guys, 

Pete, anyway burgundy is a bit closer to lilac than green. I would like to have the reference where you got that info as it adds to the whole story. As Arnold says the colour scheme does go together quite well, more luck than any artistic flair on my part.

Don the tender is on the to-do list in fact I plan to make two sets of frames simultaneously. When I machined my small wheels some had voids but two had major voids, one with a hole right through the flange. Pete at GLR replaced them with 6 wheels already machined, so I have 4 spare. The plan is to make the tender and a wooden open passenger wagon so I have a set for display. I'll get on to it in the next few weeks, club open day first and I need to start looking at a second hand Simplex I obtained just before Christmas. However, I have a one job at a time policy so the tender will take precedent over the Simplex.

Thanks again.

Pete

Pete


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## PeteH (Jan 20, 2012)

To ask is to recieve :big:

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=32009


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## syrtismajor (Jan 20, 2012)

She looks glorious!
Good luck with the first steaming and hope she goes as good as she looks


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## doubletop (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks for the link Pete, I remembered the post but hadn't checked it out. We haven't heard much from Chris since those early days. Hopefully the frames fiasco didn't put him off too much.

Syrtismajor; Thanks I have had a preliminary steam the other week before I finished it but it still needs a bit more time spent really getting it up to best performance. If you didn't catch it the first teaming was in this post 

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=15536.msg176654#msg176654

Pete


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## syrtismajor (Jan 20, 2012)

My apologies! I had somehow missed that post.
My original comment still applies though: glorious!


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## imagineering (Jan 28, 2012)

Definitely a contender for 'Project of the Month' February...
Looking forward to our Exhibition this weekend.

Imagineering.


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## doubletop (Jan 29, 2012)

Murray

Welcome back!!

Pete


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## doubletop (Mar 4, 2012)

Hi

Its been over a month since I posted something here. I've not been inactive, but we had a club open weekend and following that I spent some time stripping down the Simplex I'd purchased just before Christmas. I'd always said I wouldn't touch it until I'd finished this project. but I couldn't help myself.

From what I understand this hasn't been run for about 10years, but at the club open weekend we did the boiler tests and it passed, just needs one of the safeties adjusting. 

It looks quite nice here.







It was a bit grubby but lots of de-greaser soon sorted the muck. The intention is to re-furbish it over the winter.












Down to the frames.







Anyway that's a story for later, I need to start another thread 

*Back to the Northumbrian*

The next job is the tender, if I don't get on with it I never will so I'll forget the Simplex for now. Over the past few weeks I've managed to get the frames, stretchers, axle boxes, spring hangers, axles and wheels.







When I machined the small wheels, I think I may have said before, some of the castings had voids. A call to Pete H at GLR and a set of replacements were on their way to NZ, this time fully machined, by way of quality control from Pete's supplier. 

This meant that I had a second set of 4 wheels I could use for something. As the loco going to be gas fired why not and wagon for the gas tank, so that's what I'm doing.

















That's it so far. I've got to muster the materials for the tender body, I've got most, but as always its the bit you need to do next and you don't have the material available 

Pete


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## ozzie46 (Mar 4, 2012)

Pete, that's looking fabulous. Thm: Thm: Thm: Thm: Thm: Thm:

 Ron


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## zeeprogrammer (Mar 4, 2012)

Beautiful model Pete!
I'm looking forward to a video of you on the track with it.
Nice job whetting everyone's appetite for the Simplex too. ;D


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## bearcar1 (Mar 4, 2012)

Say Pete, terrific looking work and good progress being made there. How about starting a new thread about The Thistle Engine rehab? We all know you are going to be working on that one at the same time, (now don't we) ;D That way we all can have our cake and eat it too. 

BC1
Jim


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## doubletop (Mar 5, 2012)

*Ron*

Thanks; its coming together. I've just spent the evening sketching a wagon in Visio (that's all I have). I want to do a closed wagon so I can hide the gas bottle. Examples I have to work from are this 2nd class from the Didcot Railway center







Although its for 7ft gauge something in this style would be easy in MDF. 

From the National Railway Museum in York, Northumbrian's sister "Rocket" apparently had something a bit more fancy.

1st Class






Or 3rd class, but open 






So I'm working on that at the moment.

*Carl*

I heard you were back in town, welcome back. A video of it running is a bit of a way off I'm afraid, not least of which the track is work in progress at the moment. That's my excuse for now anyway, but dig back through then thread and there is a video of a static steaming.

Running will be a problem at the moment; our new club track is under construction, notice the use of a kerb laying machine that extrudes concrete, with special former for the track base.






Ready for the track to be manufactured by the project team






*Jim*

You must have your spies out. Yes, I've done a few bits, the motion has a bit of play in it, I think the technical term is "shagged". I've already remade a few pins and purchased the silver steel for others. A lot of the steel on steel bearings have worn badly. I doubt they were hardened where they should have been. I'm finding that stepping up from the original imperial size to the next up metric equivalent is going to work. I've also purchased the "Cherry Red" (Kasenite) for the hardening when I need it.

The thread will start at some point, probably with catch up. Photos are being taken otherwise how on earth am I going to get it back together again?

Regards all

Pete


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## doubletop (Mar 11, 2012)

I've had some sheet brass delivered so I was able to make a start on the tender over the weekend and made pretty good progress.

Base plate







Well Tank







Top Plate







Body







All loosely fitted together







A few more parts to make then I can start of the assembly. Apart from my boilers, sheet metalwork like this is another new thing for me, so I'm quite pleased with the way its going. The soft soldering is also going to be a nice change.

Pete


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## don-tucker (Mar 11, 2012)

Hi Pete ,That looks good,if you use Bakers soldering fluid,the solder will flow great and really penetrate,went well for me on my minnie tender.
Don


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## doubletop (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks Don 

I've got the Bakers lined up already. I'm going to hold off any soldering until I've got all the parts ready. The plan is to hold everything together with small nuts and bolts until I'm ready. Otherwise its guaranteed that something will get soldered that needs to be un-soldered to get something else done.

I went out into the workshop tonight expecting to make some more progress. The only equipment that got turned on was the TV. I fiddled with this and fiddled with that without making up my mind what to do next. I worked out a way to hold the body rigid in the mill so I can drill the holes for the mounting brackets and decide stop there. Sometimes its better to walk away than make a start on something and mess it up. You know when the time is right.

Pete


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## PeteH (Mar 13, 2012)

Nice work as always Pete. Are you going to flare the top of the tender body?

PeteH


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## doubletop (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks once again Pete. I knew somebody would ask about the flare. There isn't going to be one, I think it could only be achieved with any degree of success with copper Although I've got some 20swg copper I haven't got 21" of it and wasn't going to join sheets together. I'm using 1mm brass sheet and I'm not going to attempt to flare that. 

The write up does say various different tenders were used and the drawings on line sort of support that even though there is a degree of artistic licence

On drawings; I was rummaging through the National Railway Museum (York) online and found they had a blueprint of an original Stephenson drawing of the Northumbrian, side elevation. Its frames are made up e.g open lattice but not the Warren girder style in one of the sketches. They sent me a .tiff, as a sample but I won't post it here just in case there's any copyright restrictions. One thing is sure, we can't call this "fine scale"

Pete


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## PeteH (Mar 14, 2012)

No problems Pete, - it's your engine so press your own buttons. I have already got some 0.8mm brass sheet so will be using that when I get back into it. Would have been perfect tonight except we had the good old parent / teacher night, and I think it will start warming up again! :'(


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## doubletop (Mar 24, 2012)

I've been making a bit of progress with the tender getting all the mounting brackets, internal baffle etc. all finished, riveted and soldered up 







I've gone for an angled baffle rather than the curve in the drawing basically because it was simpler. I also skipped all the rivets and replaced with 10BA bolts. again because it was easier. I'll save rivet counting for a later project, when I've worked out how people do all those dummy rivets.

I've also done all the other unions and pipework for the well tank. 







I'm using a hand pump from Polly Model, again its easier.







I'm holding the well tank on by screws rather than solder it. If its soldered there's no way of getting back in to fix anything if you need to without making a mess. There are plenty of silicon gasket products out there to ensure it gets sealed properly.







Sitting on the frames. A bit more tidying up and that's about it before I start the painting. You'll see it's spent some time in the sand blaster so the etch primer will stick.







Better get some springs in those axle boxes.............

Pete


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## cfellows (Mar 25, 2012)

Don't know how you do it, Pete. I can't seem to get any further than building an engine. When it comes to building any kind of vehicle to put it in, I get stalled. 

Chuck


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## doubletop (Mar 26, 2012)

Chuck

Thanks for looking in. Doing this tender is just something that has to be done otherwise the rest of the effort will have been for nothing. Anyway you got me thinking about my approach 

#1 is an understanding partner who encourages me to go into the workshop. I got 16 hours in over the weekend with a regular supply of tea at appropriate intervals. ;D

#2 is one job at a time, however much you may want to do something else, just stick with it. I've got that Simplex to look forward to, with bits of it spread around the workshop, but I manage to not get distracted.

#3 is plan, well to some degree, set out the objectives for the session and stick to them as much as you can.

#4 is walk away when its starts going wrong, you are rushing, not enjoying it or just tired, put it down and come back another day. You'll be surprised how well something goes that you were struggling with the day before.

But of course all you guys have been around long enough to know all that.....................

Pete


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## PeteH (Mar 26, 2012)

doubletop  said:
			
		

> #4 is walk away when its starts going wrong, you are rushing, not enjoying it or just tired, put it down and come back another day. You'll be surprised how well something goes that you were struggling with the day before.



Have to agree with No 4  Though you do make excellent work at what seems to be approaching light speed (at least to my current progress  )

Pete


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## Captain Jerry (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi Pete

I'm a little late to pick up on this project but I have to ask about a step that you glossed over. How did that tender acquire that nice rolled top edge. One picture its flat and the next picture its round. Must be magic.

Jerry


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## kvom (Mar 26, 2012)

Most people make the rounded edge with half-round brass rod.


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## doubletop (Mar 26, 2012)

Pete

Being a fellow Brit I find its the tea that helps. Maggs has delivered said item from time to time to find me dozing in the workshop chair. The tea refreshes those parts that a beer doesn't do and its back to work.

Jerry/Kvom

Kvom has hit it on the head. I found a length of half round lurking in the back of the cupboard annealed it progressively bent it to shape clamping as I went. It only needed finger pressure to form the shapes with the occasional tap to get it into line. An hour or so in the pickle to remove 20years of muck and then I tinned the back wiping off the excess with a damp cloth. Clamped it back in place and re-heated it to melt the solder and hold it in its final place.

Well that's the ideal version; it wasn't going right and got half way round and was about to remove it all when aforementioned tea arrived so I sat down drank the tea and had another go. The last part went the way the first (pre tea) part should have gone. So I redid the the original attempt and what you see is the result.

It's all been etch primed, blemishes body puttied, where needed, and rubbed down with 1000 grit wet and dry so top coat is the plan tonight.

Pete


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## doubletop (Mar 30, 2012)

After a number of attempts at the painting of the tender I finally got it to a state that can be considered moderately OK, which was recovered from bloody awful. As people have said on here before there are rattle cans and rattle cans. I tried cans from Repco, which were Holts. They spluttered and farted and did a hopeless job after a number of rub downs with 1000 grit and retries I ran out of paint so went to Super Cheap Auto and got another brand they seemed to be marginally better but not as good as a can I had from MMP Industrial branded "Australian Export" which do a great job but didn't have the colour I wanted. Closer inspection of the SuperCheap cans they were from Holts as well. Ho hum, I persevered and here we are:

























A couple of bits of pipework to connect the tender to the loco. Next job is get the loco running properly. The burner needs some work to get it right. JasonB pointed out that the lubricator didn't have a second clack, and he was right, it needs one. I've got something in mind for the small space it needs to go into.

Pete


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## ozzie46 (Mar 30, 2012)

That's looking great Pete! Thm: Thm:

  On another note, could you take a look at post # 105 on my Simplex thread?

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8358.105#lastPost

 I am having some issues with the motion works and posted a question about it here and on another forum but no replies so far.  

 Thanks

  Ron


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## doubletop (Mar 30, 2012)

Thanks Ron

That's probably the last time it will look like that. If my Rob Roy experience is anything to go by, getting it to run properly with dis-assembly/ re-assembly, heat and oil gives it a patina unobtainable in the build process. It wasn't built to sit on a shelf and look pretty so it will get to look 'lived in' before it works well.

I've posted something over on your thread.

Pete


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## Jasonb (Mar 31, 2012)

Looks fab Pete, I bet you are itching to get it on the track. It will be interesting to see how it grips as there is not that much weight over the driven axle.

J


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## arnoldb (Mar 31, 2012)

The Northumbrian looks great with the completed tender in tow Pete :bow: :bow:

Well Done !

Kind regards, Arnold


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## doubletop (Apr 1, 2012)

Jason/ Arnold

Thanks to you both

The club raised track re-build is still work in progress so I've nowhere to run it right now. The first batch of track sections are off to be galvanized tomorrow, so its happening.

On the adhesion, there is a lump of steel under the smokebox but not a big as the lump under Dons Rainhill

_(Don's broken link to Photobucket)_







Your question about adhesion got me do do something I've been meaning to do and calculate the drawbar pull. It's a puny 10.7 lbs when running at 80 psi. I'm 200lbs so its going to struggle on even the slightest gradient. We'll see.

regards

Pete


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## don-tucker (Apr 1, 2012)

She is looking real good Pete,Ill be honest with you ,we have never had ours on the track,but did steam it once on rollers and found the blast pipe would not create enough draft,so altered that.
Don


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## PeteH (Apr 1, 2012)

Marvellous Job Pete.

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

Just wish my last weekend had been as successful 

Pete


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## doubletop (Apr 1, 2012)

Don

I've had mine on the rollers and the blower works pretty well. The problem I did have was the burner not working as well as I expected and running rich (orange flame). I played with that over the weekend I was using a #10 jet and it would flash over if I tried more gas pressure. When I put that jet in the Rob Roy burner it also ran rich and also flashed over when the pressure was increased. So I used the #15 jet from the Rob Roy which worked fine and allowed the gas pressure to be raised so the burner was running with a roar and no flash over. I've done a few different burners now and have been trying to understand the relationships between combination's of burner, jets, primary and secondary air flow, gas type and pressure and haven't managed to get it to the point of predictability. It either works or it doesn't.

Pete

Now you are out of summer time does that mean cooler over there, and more time in the workshop? Or is just a case of the difference between hot and damned hot?

Pete


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## PeteH (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi Pete,

Now that it has cooled off it means much more shed time - until it gets too risky treading the dogs 'minefield' coming back into the house (unlit back yard!) or too wet.


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## doubletop (Apr 2, 2012)

Would investment in a good torch help?


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## PeteH (Apr 3, 2012)

LOL!

I have quite a few actually  The rogaining means having a good head torch as half the course time (roughly) is night. Must admit tonight it was more because it was dark before I had finished tea and couldn't be bothered.

I am planning in having a few good sessions during the Easter break - Everyone can have some chocolate eggs on my Birthday :big:


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## doubletop (Apr 9, 2012)

I spent the Easter weekend sorting out a few things and installing fittings and ensuring everything was not leaking. 

I had some work to do on the burner and got that going fine. I'm using a #5 jet and 30 psi of gas pressure, #5 jet and 30psi is about 4.5Btu's/hour. I think #10 or #15 would be a better choice for running under load but #5 is proving reliable, even if I forget the blower, no blowouts or blowbacks. 

I think it was Jason who was questioning my lack of a second clack in the lubricator. I've managed to squeeze that in now. 

The blow down valve just doesn't fit directly into the boiler with the front footplate cross beam in place so I've put that on the rear stretcher and piped it in. Now it can be used, putting it in the boiler it would never have been accessible.





​
Its all getting a bit tight in there in a space that's barely 3" x 4", that's a 1" square lubricator. The blowdown pipework isn't that flash and will be on the re-do list once I've made myself a small pipe bender. I did say previously that once it got running it wouldn't look that pretty again.

I got it all back together and then did about 1.5 hours on air with plenty of oil to free everything up

So does it run on steam? First run with the tender in place and the axle pump working to keep it topped up. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r04HlYEFQII[/ame]​
The noise is the uneven rollers as they are just stock 19mm ally rod and have not been turned true. You can see the loco bouncing around, it does help to exercise the suspension. Later in the video I lift the wheels off the rollers and you'll see how smooth and quiet it runs.

7.5mins is the limit of my camera memory, I did three runs today, all exceeding 12 mins without any major problems. Now I just need that track finished......

Pete


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## Jasonb (Apr 9, 2012)

Thats running very sweetly, should sound even better once its working against a bit of a load.

J


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## doubletop (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks Jason

Like you, I'm not convinced its going to pull much, there's not a lot of adhesive weight there to get any grip. You'll notice a couple of cables coming off the front coupling. I had tried a 3kg weight hanging off them pulling the front down harder. It ran OK but was even noisier, bouncing around. The rollers are currently mounted on a piece of 1/2" ply which acts like a sound board. I've really just built it as a bit of a novelty and training exercise for myself.

We'll see what happens when the track is available. Radio control has crossed my mind as an option.

Pete


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## arnoldb (Apr 9, 2012)

It runs great Pete Thm:

I bet you can't wait to see it on the track - It should be very interesting to see how it copes with traction.

Kind regards, Arnold


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## kvom (Apr 9, 2012)

Get some lead sheet for boiler lagging and add some traction that way.


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## doubletop (Apr 9, 2012)

Arnold/kvom

I am considering the adhesive weight problems I do have some lead available to cast a lump to hang underneath, much like Don's. Unfortunately the scale is so small I don't think cladding in lead would be viable, of course if I were to clad the boiler in lead I could go nuclear, except NZ is a nuclear free zone. ;D.

Pete


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## PeteH (Apr 10, 2012)

Running great there Pete, How much water did you use during the run?

Pete


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## ozzie46 (Apr 10, 2012)

AAAAH, Now I've had my fix! A vid of it running!

  Very nice. Congratulations.  :bow: :bow: :bow:

  Ron


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## don-tucker (Apr 10, 2012)

doubletop  said:
			
		

> Thanks Jason
> 
> Like you, I'm not convinced its going to pull much, there's not a lot of adhesive weight there to get any grip. You'll notice a couple of cables coming off the front coupling. I had tried a 3kg weight hanging off them pulling the front down harder. It ran OK but was even noisier, bouncing around. The rollers are currently mounted on a piece of 1/2" ply which acts like a sound board. I've really just built it as a bit of a novelty and training exercise for myself.
> 
> ...


We knew someone who built a Rainhill and it managed to pull him around the track OK,so you have every chance.
Don


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## ronkh (Apr 10, 2012)

Pete,

I've followed this since the word go and have thoroughly enjoyed it and been amazed by your craftmanship. Thank you for sharing.
Just the one question for you. Can you say what speed this would/might be cabable of in both true speed and scale speed if that's possible please?

Kind regards,

Ron.


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## doubletop (Apr 10, 2012)

Many thanks everybody

*Pete*

Not much really which attests to the sort of load it didnt have. The boiler takes just over a ½ litre and the tender about ¾ litre. I would say it used about half a tender on a 12 minute run.

*Ron * 

There will be more to come. I have a length of the old club track the plan this weekend is to do some traction tests. Tether the loco, tender etc with a spring balance or pulley and weights. Well see whether it can do the theoretical 11lbs. As for adhesive weight I have some lead so may end up making a mould and casting a lump to go under the smokebox, in the meantime I may just hang some weights over the smokebox.

*Don*

This week Im in the process of building the gas tank wagon for free running, but Im building it so I can also connect my riding trolley in its place. When the club track is finished Ill be down there seeing if it really can pull me. (I may even be down there before the track is finished as the main straight should be installed by now.)

*Ron*

The club speed limit is 10km/hr or 6mph and my Rob Roy can easily exceed that in places. This free runs well enough to indicate it could do that speed as well. So scale speed of 160km/hr or 100mph yeh right! The real problem is getting the load moving, and then its just a case of providing enough power to overcome the friction, air resistance losses and the effects of gravity on any inclines.

Pete


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## doubletop (Apr 15, 2012)

An eventful weekend. During the week the first sections of the new track had been delivered after being galvanized. Saturday morning I was in a small working party installing the six sections








They look pretty smart, its only 36 meters at the moment but gives a clue what its going to look like when its all done. I can't wait to get running on it.

Also arriving during the week were some #15 jets from Polly Model Eng. This was to replace the #5 jet I had been using. The #5 allowed allowed me to raise steam but there wasn't enough heat to get to full pressure. Theoretically on propane a #5 jets at 30psi gives 4,160 BTU/hr and #15 jet at 10psi gives 7,355BTU/hr (here http://ronreil.abana.org/BTU_Calculator.xls

Using the #15 jet the safety was blowing in less than 5 mins from cold. Conclusion, the burner I presented in the previous posts with a #15 jet and propane at 10psi is adequate to run this loco. If you need more heat try a bit more gas pressure. You'll need to use an external blower although with care its possible to use a lower pressure bring it up to heat slowly get some pressure and get the loco blower going, then slowly bring up the gas pressure. An external blower is quicker.

With this now working it meant I was in a position to do the boiler accumulator test. Running hard on the safety valve and no increase in pressure. That worked fine so I arranged to meet the boiler inspector for the boiler test.






​
That went well and now I have a certified boiler!!!!

So what next.....................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYLRDaZdYwg​
Am I a happy chappy? ;D ;D ;D

Pete


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## Jasonb (Apr 15, 2012)

Looks good, I bet you ar chuffed with that. Will be interesting to see it when you have a riding trolly available to see what its capable of.

J


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## SBWHART (Apr 15, 2012)

Nice one Peter

I could hear lots of chuckles on the vid looks a lot of fun.

 :big: :big: :big: :big:

Stew


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## Blogwitch (Apr 15, 2012)

Very nice indeed Pete.

I bet your father will be real pleased when he sees what you have done. A real chip off the old block and a good model engineer in your own right.

Very well done.


John


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## doubletop (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks Jason and Stew

It was a great day. The guys were running up and down with me like school kids, most of them are retired. 

We were just about to hitch up a trolley when the seal on the regulator flange started to leak. So that was it for the day. It's in a bit of a state at the moment with all the disassembley, reassembly that goes on getting these things to run. Heat and oil everywhere it's a bit of a mess. That's why the wooden cladding is off, the boiler was in and out so many times I just gave up putting the cladding back on each time. 

I'm going to do another strip down during the week and tidy it up, touch up paint etc. 

regards

Pete


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## doubletop (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks John I really appreciate that.

Yes, Dad's been following along on the journey. Having him looking over my shoulder, his Rob Roy as a standard to compare to and this forum providing advice and also setting standards has been a powerful inspiration to do my best. 

I go so far to say that these forums are probably grossly underestimated in their influence on this hobby. When the question is asked "how do I start" the normal responses are

1) Join a club
2) Take a magazine subscription
3) Do a course (if you can)
4) Read the books

These days #1 should be "Subscribe to a forum" 

Thanks again

Pete


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## don-tucker (Apr 15, 2012)

Very well done Pete,sent a copy to my brother.
Don


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## doubletop (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks Don, hope he enjoys it.

It's a pile of bits again. If you look at the video the reverse runs are slightly uphill and you'll see the wheels spinning. So it does need that lump of lead between the front wheels. That meant the lump of steel that is part of this versions design had to come out







It now has 2 x 2ba holes 1" apart either side of the centre line. Ready to bolt a lead block onto. _(guess where I got that idea from?) _

A lump 2.875" x 1.5" x 1.25" will weigh about 2.1lbs, just under a kilogram. Which should help a bit.

Pete


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## PeteH (Apr 16, 2012)

Marvelous stuff Pete ;D

That diet must have worked wonders - the driver has faded away to nothing   

Won't be long before we'll hear you giggling as it pulls you around the track

Pete


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## kvom (Apr 16, 2012)

Kozo A3 in 3/4 scale has an optional lump of lead in the smokebox; any room in there?


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## doubletop (Apr 17, 2012)

What happened to last night's reply? I know, I was in the workshop putting it back together again.

Pete - yes the driver has shrunk and bit, I've had more than one suggestion of little people being installed. Trouble is Barbie and Ken don't really look the part, and the safety police would have something to say about all that hair and open machinery.

Kvom - I'm searching around for more places to hang lead from, but this is a very small model compared to yours. The loco is barely 12" long, if that.

On progress; the rolling chassis is all back together and all fixings now Loctite'd in place. repaint the backhead tonight ready for a barbecue session tomorrow to fuse the paint, then reassemble the boiler, Friday will be making a casing for the ballast weight. Nice weekend on the way I may even get it back to running for Sundays club session.

regards

Pete


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## doubletop (Apr 21, 2012)

If you look at the video of running at the track something had to be done about the wheelespin, especially on the slight gradient on the reverse runs

http://www.youtube.com/v/mYLRDaZdYwg&hl

The clue to the solution is in Don Tuckers 45year old version of LBSC's Rainhill. A big lump of something between the drivers.

I stripped the whole thing down and removed the lump of steel the Northumbrian drawings provide for and drill and tapped 2 x2ba holes to attach the lump to. Then put it all back together.







The weight box was fabricated out ot 20swg stainless, in the same manner at the burner, and filled with molten lead. In fact as I had silver soldered the box together it became its own crucible and I just melted the lead straight in the box.

2.875" x 1.5" x 1.25" gives weight of just over 2 lbs or 1 Kg. Not a lot but when the loco is only 6kg I'm sure it will make a difference.







A couple of holes drilled once it had cooled and it mounted straight between the frames












It can come off while the loco is looking pretty on display and go back on for track running.

While I had the boiler out time to paint the back head and give it the barbecue heat treatment. The footplate was done at the same time







Its all back together now, once the Loctite gasket has cured I'll give it a steam and then maybe go to the track in the afternoon to see if it really will pull me.

Pete


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## Blogwitch (Apr 21, 2012)

If that weight doesn't work Pete, sling a couple of largish Neo magnets on a U-bracket, just off the rails. They have a pull of many Kgs each.

In fact, put on two, one on the front and one at the back.

Instant stiction.


John


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## zeeprogrammer (Apr 21, 2012)

Wonderful wonderful Pete.
It's been a dream of mine to build a locomotive. Can't until I retire.
In the mean time, I enjoy living the dream through others like you.
Well done and thanks.


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## doubletop (Apr 21, 2012)

John

Alternative technology had crossed my mind but I'd rather see if I can get it going old school. At least I have the mounting on the front, the back may be a problem its getting very busy there. Out of shot there are a couple of neo magnets attached to the left hand driver. I was using the oscilloscope and reed switch to do some timing tests.

Carl

I understand where you are with "until I retire". I had a practice run last year, between contracts, it was extremely enjoyable but my services were required so I'm back on the treadmill.

Its a nice day here in NZ, a steam up on the rollers this morning and if that goes well I'll take my driving trolley to the track and see if it can pull me.

Pete


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## PeteH (Apr 30, 2012)

Congratulations on getting Project of the Month - very well deserved :bow:


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## doubletop (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks Pete and I said over on the PoM thread, I was a bit surprised but flattered

Ive just realised I havent reported on the riding trolley event last weekend..

Well it didnt go at all well; the loco pulled/pushed the trolley OK but when I sat my 110kg plus on it it wasnt going anywhere. So still some work required there. It could have been a disaster though, as you know the track isnt complete so I was running back and forth. On the first return run I was coming near the end of the track and just shut the regulator, as normal. The momentum of the riding trolley caused it to run off the end and clatter along the top of the raised plinth. I managed to grab it all before it dragged the tender and loco off with it. A close call.

Pete


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## Rusty1964 (Dec 30, 2012)

hi pete

where in wa are you


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## gus (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi Pete,

I bought the plans and wheels.Your thread will be very good instructional material to follow. Looks like I have to make a faceplate too.
But I planning to make a Boring Head from bar stock using Harold Hall's plans.Will faithfully follow your thread.

Gus from faraway Singapore.


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## marc55 (Nov 2, 2013)

my rainhill 5 inch


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## doubletop (Nov 4, 2013)

I see my last post to this thread was nearly two years ago. And there have been some replies I haven't acknowledged. Apologies for that.

I've been having a bit of a play with the loco and made a proper wagon for the gas bottle. after I'd chased it round the track a couple of times I then added RC to the regulator. You can just see the servo shaft coming out of the tender

[ame]http://youtu.be/x46u38rJVXE[/ame]

Apologies for the wobbly camera. RC in one hand and camera in the other doesn't work too well

Pete


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## gus (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi Pete,

Gus just cannot take it lying down any longer,got to get up and build this NorthThumbrian. Your video got me motivated and primed. 
Will build this engine after finishing the Nemetts---Lynx I.C. Engine in 2014.


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## doubletop (Nov 5, 2013)

Gus

Go for it, its real fun and only takes about 10 mins from the car to running and back again at the end of the day. The big boys were getting in my way at times.

I'm now working on the Nemet Lynx myself

Pete


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## gus (Nov 5, 2013)

doubletop said:


> Gus
> 
> Go for it, its real fun and only takes about 10 mins from the car to running and back again at the end of the day. The big boys were getting in my way at times.
> 
> ...



Hi Pete,

Thanks for the encouragement.

The Nemett Lynx will be very challenging to build. Was fortunate to have gained some good experience and help from the HMEM members while building the Webster and Brian Rupnow's H&M. Turnung the tappet valves on the lathe was quite hairy.


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## doubletop (Nov 10, 2013)

Gus

I've already done the Bobcat so I'm comfortable with what lies ahead

regards

Pete


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## doubletop (Jul 23, 2017)

Photos fixed after the Photobucket fiasco

Pete


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## marioserafica (Aug 16, 2017)

Bellissima !!!!!  wonderful job !


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## doubletop (Aug 17, 2017)

marioserafica said:


> Bellissima !!!!!  wonderful job !



Thank you Mario

Pete


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