# Newbie and the Elbow Engine



## Foozer (Dec 31, 2010)

At least gonna attempt one. After moving, still unable to find anything and really trying to avoid the "Honey Do or Else" list, figure why not add to my personal insanity by trying to build an Elbow Engine. That design looks easy but have read enough builds to know that for me it will be challenging altho far better than "YUCK" yard work.

Liked that revolver look so sketched up what I will try for, now to go and see what stock i have around buried in boxes and get to it.

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Dec 31, 2010)

Most excellent. I'm glad to see you're starting a thread.
Looking forward to it.


----------



## kjk (Dec 31, 2010)

Now if the flywheel spokes were angled, you'd have the world's first elbow fan.

Good luck with this one.


----------



## Foozer (Jan 2, 2011)

Watching the Three Stooges and wondering which one of them I most resemble. . . 
Had to do a quick and dirty lathe repair, was wondering why she was a-given fits towards a smooth finish. Didn't take long, the aft, outboard, port side, err spindle bearing on the left side was toast. Its an old AA109 which is a fussy mistress on the best of days.

As the original bearing (bronze sleeve) slips tight into a 0.750 hole in the headstock and my spindle is 0.550 in dia some ID/OD .500/.750 ball bearings were screaming ME ME ME.

This spindle I made some months back so it being solid turning down the bearing portion to 0.500 was doable. Turned down the portion that the spindle gear attaches to, too 0.375 to allow for a slip on piece that will bring the shaft back to 0.550 to attach the gear to. (2 many 2's) One spindle 2 bearings with a spacer, now to put it back together and see how well she holds up.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 3, 2011)

Machine repair done, best repair would be to lift cutting bit and install a new machine under it, if the "Bride" stops finding things to spend my allowance upon . . .

Any-who, got the flywheel blank mounted, Oh ya this is faceplate work and with this hunk of AL turning, a counter weight is in order, tomorrow task.

The blank has around the circumference three equally spaced scribe marks and is set upon a dowel pin. Another scribe mark is upon the face of the plate. Idea is to bore a segment, turn the blank to the next scribe mark and so on. The nubbing in the center (centre) of the blank is my cut to mark. Its a low and slow process coming up, that's a lot of material for this old lathe to be a spinning.

Robert


----------



## coopertje (Jan 4, 2011)

Hi Robert,

I like to see your progress on the engine and the flywheel. Seems quite a setup on the faceplate to me, curious how your machining order will be on this part. Keep the pics coming, they are appreciated!

Regards Jeroen


----------



## b.lindsey (Jan 4, 2011)

Best wishes on the build Robert. If you guys keep making these things I am gonna have to add it to the to do list which is already long enough. Still its fun to watch while otherwise occupied.

Regards,
Bill


----------



## 1hand (Jan 4, 2011)

I love that engine! Best of luck Thm:

Matt


----------



## Foozer (Jan 4, 2011)

coopertje  said:
			
		

> Hi Robert,
> 
> I like to see your progress on the engine and the flywheel. Seems quite a setup on the faceplate to me, curious how your machining order will be on this part. Keep the pics coming, they are appreciated!
> 
> Regards Jeroen



I'm curious myself. Took near 3/4 pound of counter weight to keep the faceplate somewhat stable. Used a soft jaw chuck skimmed for flatness and such to true up the flywheel blank. With the blank offset, will bore out each web in turn, are witness marks at 120 degree intervals around the blank with another on the face plate. Bore one web, rotate blank to next mark, repeat. Pop it back into the soft jaw chuck and turn the blank down to my hubs "cut to dia" Fun part will be drilling the piston holes, be some sort of jig so both pieces match up. Really counting on the use of the soft jaws to help things stayed square.

Its cold out, most everything is still in boxes from moving and I,m getting black and blue from the brides "Thwacking Stick" Turning metal into chips is just fun, if it actually comes to fruition of a functional end product thats a WHEE moment

Robert


----------



## arnoldb (Jan 5, 2011)

Nice start Robert Thm:

Just plan ahead and do things carefully.



> ...if it actually comes to fruition of a functional end product thats a WHEE moment"


Tell yourself and believe it WILL come to a successful end; then you've got a much greater chance for that WHEE moment 

Regards, Arnold


----------



## coopertje (Jan 5, 2011)

Thats so very true Arnold! 

Do I understand correctly that you will make the spokes on your lathe? If so that will be quite a challenge! 
Metal working is a perfect way to relax the mind. After a busy day at work 1 or 2 hours in the shop is enough to have a clear mind. 
I am sure you will have your WEE moment, no doubt about that. As long as you take it step by step it will be ok.

Good luck and have fun in the shop, Jeroen


----------



## Foozer (Jan 5, 2011)

coopertje  said:
			
		

> Thats so very true Arnold!
> 
> Do I understand correctly that you will make the spokes on your lathe? If so that will be quite a challenge!



Yup on the lathe which limits what I can do. If what i want to do to the piece doesn't fit within a 6 inch dia circle then its back to the drawing board. Its slow but doable.

Of course the "Bride" won out against a mill yet once again. Set of studded tires for her car or a mill, I've eaten my own cooking, her car now sports a new set of studs 

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 5, 2011)

So long as it's the car...


----------



## mklotz (Jan 5, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> So long as it's the car...



Chuckle.


----------



## Foozer (Jan 8, 2011)

You all make this look so easy, boy did i get suckered in 

Had to get a boring bar with enough reach to avoid the mounting hardware. Got one that takes inserts to ease the pain, worth the few days wait.

Starting to look like I pictured, have one more bore to do to free up the remaining spokes then its the make or break stage. Drilling some straight holes, peck and clear, peck and clear.

Hmm guess you can make a spoke type flywheel on a lathe, should be a decent SPINNER

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 8, 2011)

What are you going to make the rim out of?

And yeah...it'll be a better 'SPINNER' than mine. :big:


----------



## Foozer (Jan 8, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> What are you going to make the rim out of?
> 
> And yeah...it'll be a better 'SPINNER' than mine. :big:



Have a hunk of brass from another flywheel exercise that should work. Trying to avoid cutting up a big round just for the rim. Hmm a 5 inch dia flywheel, could put 5 such spokes into it. I cant, lathe tisnt big enough, but with a mill HMM. . . 

Lets see what mischief I can get in to today. Get that last bore done and then set-up to cut the revolver look on the hub.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 8, 2011)

With Stone Axe and Flint Knife I continue on

Bored the last hole to free up the spokes. Starting to look like something. Left that little bit of material as its still needed to reference the next op or two. Tomorrows another day and working up a drill jig for the piston holes is next.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 15, 2011)

One more piece for the "Wall Hanging of Educational Endeavours" Whee! for short

Lack of experience details on the piece of the right. The OOPs now I cant bore the inner holes very well can I. Another hunk of stock and this go round drilled and bored the inner holes first. 

All being done on a faceplate so progress is a bit slow. Could just make this motor as Elmer drew it, but what fun is that.

With all the "Way past my skill level" models on this site the ego can get a tad bruised, but then I gotta remember I am a newbie, and every "Whee" part I make just adds appreciation towards what others make look so easy.

Now to cut out the webs and see what happens . . .


Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 15, 2011)

Not to worry Robert. The 'tail of whee' will shorten.

I sure hope that's not last year's tin of sardines. ;D


----------



## Foozer (Jan 15, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I sure hope that's not last year's tin of sardines. ;D



Not sure, always restocking em and never rotate em, hows your project doing, threw up my bad, yours?


Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 15, 2011)

The flywheel is bad but usable for now.
I'm just not getting enough shop time.


----------



## Foozer (Jan 16, 2011)

Much better, seems an actual do-able. Hardest part now is getting the scribe marks lined up. Magnifier is around somewhere, it'll show up when I quit looking for it.

This pass at releasing the spokes from their hiding place is going better than the first attempt. I can still hear that one chuckling "You'll never find me!" After an hour of thumpty, thumpty, thump boring its time to relax.

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 16, 2011)

I hope you didn't jinx yourself.
If I comment (positively) on my work...things will go awry.
Well...commenting negatively too.


----------



## shred (Jan 16, 2011)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> One more piece for the "Wall Hanging of Educational Endeavours" Whee! for short
> 
> ...
> 
> With all the "Way past my skill level" models on this site the ego can get a tad bruised, but then I gotta remember I am a newbie, and every "Whee" part I make just adds appreciation towards what others make look so easy.


A while back I ran across a quote, roughly paraphrased-- 'There's two kinds of advice on the internet; "I think:..." and "I did:...". Your job is to identify them, learn the difference and when which is appropriate.'

I always try to pay careful attention to the "I did's" from the top hands here, they've made a whole lot of Whee! parts getting to that skill level.


----------



## Foozer (Jan 16, 2011)

shred  said:
			
		

> I always try to pay careful attention to the "I did's" from the top hands here, they've made a whole lot of Whee! parts getting to that skill level.



Good advice, lots of educational information on this site from which I try to develop a best practice method from. Knowing why something did not work makes one think, hopefully increasing the successful "I did's" 

Shall see what develops today, the more operations upon the part made, the more care required, a mental shift needing application at the beginning of the project.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 16, 2011)

Good slow day,

Took my time and just whittled away at it. Spokes are making their presence known. Came out better than I expected, considering the use of witness marks. The boring of the larger diameter holes evenly kissed the edges of the smaller holes.

Next up is drilling the piston and hold-down holes, then mount the rim. I begin to see why a mill with a rotary table is often spoken of fondly. Till that day arrives, its faceplate and soft jaw chuck 

Robert


----------



## wareagle (Jan 17, 2011)

Foozer, the spokes look great!

As for having all of the equipment to make a process easy... Well, part of the fun is finding solutions to problems with the resources on hand. If we had all of the gizmos that would make the current task easy, then the hobby would get boring in my opinion. Half the fun is the challenge of making the journey!


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 17, 2011)

Looks good Robert.

And a 1 for 2 start ain't bad. :big:


----------



## Foozer (Jan 17, 2011)

Wareagle, thanks, now to hurt my head coming up with a way to drill the piston holes without using the less than trustworthy tailstock.

Zee, 1 out of 2? hmm actually better than my "Bride" history, course she thinks I'm making some sort of carrot slicer 


Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 18, 2011)

Figured I'd just keep on roughing out the pieces before working the critical s. Did the cylinder, would of been nice to have done both pieces at the same time, but drilling and boring 2 inch deep holes on the AA109 just aint gonna happen.

Next up get the flywheel support piece roughed out. If I remember right this piece "*has*" to be 90 degrees to the base. Should be a curious affair.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 19, 2011)

Next up get the flywheel support piece roughed out. If I remember right this piece "has" to be 90 degrees to the base. Should be a curious affair.

It is. Took a piece of 0.375 thick stock, rough cut to size with extra to allow for hold downs upon the faceplate. Skimmed one side, flipped it and did the other. Figure if the faceplate is skimmed flat then the piece should also end up with parallel sides. Mic says its ok. To get one edge at 90 degrees to a face the "Be Careful" method of work-holding comes into play, as said in another thread, be attentive when hanging weight on a face plate, add weight to counter balance. (removed for shot)

So I have my square edge that will be needed for the jig to carve out the radius for what hopefully will be the flywheel support.


Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 21, 2011)

Got my test piece for the flywheel support looking like I sorta want. Elmer calls for 0.375 thick but it looks a tad skinny. Might try a 0.500 piece with some rounding at the base, see how brave I get and if the 109 can manage it. Just looks too plain.

Used the faceplate to bore the curves into the sides of the support and rigged up a sanding disk to round over the top. No fingers were abused working this contraption.

Robert


----------



## 1Kenny (Jan 21, 2011)

Looking good Robert.

I used 3/8" thick glass with a sheet of fine sand paper on it to true up the surfaces. 

Kenny


----------



## Foozer (Jan 23, 2011)

The one part of this build that worried me was the drilling of the air passages. Not a drill press item. No mill so, and then i 'membered why I made that little plate full of threaded holes last year (aside from being bored). Mounted it to the carriage, set down a 2 inch long piece of scrap and drilled a #30 hole thru. 

Changed the machine pulley drive to crank er up as fast as she'd go and applied the peck drilling method. Boy-O-Boy, a powered lead screw capable of incremental steps sure would be nice, beyond me to figure it out but I can dream.

Anywho, times I amaze myself for the gizmo contraption worked. The bit went in and came out near dead on to the tailstock center.

Can be done, must be a sharp drill bit, lots of cleaning the chips out and shots of WD40 dont hurt either.

Now its to make another flywheel support piece a tad more robust than the first one. Thinking I'll drill the air passages first, then do the shaping and such.

Robert


----------



## SBWHART (Jan 23, 2011)

I've bin watching this with interst Robert.

It's comming together well ;D

Those long holes can be a bit of a dog, I broke a long series drill when I dilled the supports for my elbow, scrapping the job. Nice and easy is the order of the day

Keep up the good work ;D

Cheers

Stew


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jan 23, 2011)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> The one part of this build that worried me was the drilling of the air passages.



I'm happy it's only one. :big: I'm still at the point where I worry about every one.


----------



## Foozer (Jan 23, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I'm happy it's only one. :big: I'm still at the point where I worry about every one.



Can only do one at a time, why borrow trouble. Why am I suddenly hungry?

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 23, 2011)

Let the air flow

Got the passage ways in the flywheel support drilled, no broken bits, holes met up just fine. Gave me a good idea on how to manage the piston bores. 

Time for a Corn Dog to celebrate . . . Really need to get a pair of them goggle type magnifies

Robert


----------



## SBWHART (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi Robert

I found the best way to make the cylinders was to make the two together from one bit of bar then when you've got the bores done part them off but don't forget to mark them first so you connect them up in the same orientation they were drilled in, also take care to get them concentric with the bore and evenly spaced.

Good luck

Stew


----------



## Foozer (Jan 24, 2011)

sbwhart  said:
			
		

> Hi Robert
> 
> I found the best way to make the cylinders was to make the two together from one bit of bar then when you've got the bores done part them off but don't forget to mark them first so you connect them up in the same orientation they were drilled in, also take care to get them concentric with the bore and evenly spaced.
> 
> ...



Doing the bores as a one piece then separating really would reduce the error margin. At first I knew drilling a 2 inch deep hole using my tailstock wasn't going to work for me, its got alignment issues. Had forgotten that I made little holding plate for the carriage, when I ran across it the Ah Ha! thats what i need chime dinged.

Seen that Arnold, I believe, had to do a patch up after he separated the pieces, process looks sound. My reference point that I'm using to work around are the central pivot holes, know that the error increases as one moves out from that point so care is to be taken getting that index set. Wouldn't be the first time I shot myself in the foot 

Have a little 3 inch RT if I need to, but am trying to build this thing with as few store bought toys as necessary. I've always bounced between "If its too hard make it easier and if its too easy make it harder"

Its the journey that's the adventure, once there its just another place. Bride thinks I'm nuts when I come in with the Old "Look what I made" grin, and for some reason is quick to leave the room as I begin to explain how.

Leaves just me and the remote, works every time

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jan 25, 2011)

Let me just dust off this last little bit . . . OOPS

Each piece hosed is a lesson learned.

Lesson 1: Dont trust your eye sight
Lesson 2: see lesson 1

Items to get
1: a real spotting bit
2: an optical punch
3: find that flipping DI holder for the cross slide

Things to do

Vacuum up the stairs afore the Bride gets home and, well Gee Dear, I have no idea how that chip trail got there

When I drilled the long holes into the upright, I missed one of the cross hairs by just a itty bitty bit. Ok by a mile, 0.020 or so. Of course in boring out the curvy feature it gave me the ol TSK TSK TSK. Can just make out the kiss in the photo.

Ah good thing I have more of that stock, getting easier each time I do it  Backing off on the radius might help too. 

Robert

Least I'm getting a better finish on the bore operations, all is not lost


----------



## Foozer (Jan 31, 2011)

Third time Charm? so far so good. This go around, got the deep holes drilled, Lord that's, well, in one out one, clear chips dap lube, in 2 out 2, clear chips dap lube, in 3 . . . in 36 out 36. A few dozen more of those and I might have the muscle memory down as to which way that wheel turns for Left - Right travel.

Managed to get her skinny in the waist without exposing her innards, kept the radius within 0.003 of each other. Still have to chop off the base to size but that's awaiting.

Time now to jig up something to drill the piston bores which will also have to serve as the jig to mill the slots in the upright and cylinder base to feed the pistons.

So after some 3 days with the lathe and cold metal in hand, (did I say I hate cold metal?) I ended up with this. 

Sure glad I'm retired, gives me plenty of time to nap

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 5, 2011)

After much dinking around time has come to drill the piston bores. Came up with a way to do it on the lathe, clunky but should work.

Took a block of AL and mounted it to the cross slide, used a small flycutter to square up the face, drilled and tapped a 1/4 20 hole which will hold the piece in position. Put a dead center in the spindle and dragged a scribe mark across the face of the block. This mark will be the index mark to the 3 that are upon the piece to be drilled. Ran the slide off the center by 0.350 (had to fudge so the final 0.250 reamer would clear the bolt).

Just to convince myself that things were square (loose term) I ran a piece of rod that I know spins straight real close to the side of the piece and checked the light gap. Looks good to me.

Started the process of drilling the holes. If you hear a loud "DARN" followed by hysterical laughter you'll know something went OOPS

Now Elmers Engines seem to be geared towards those with minimal equipment, right up my alley. Piece really looks bad, have to see how it cleans up after this process.

Robert


----------



## 1hand (Feb 5, 2011)

I think your flywheel is sick! Thats a good thing, so my son says. :

Matt


----------



## Foozer (Feb 5, 2011)

1hand  said:
			
		

> I think your flywheel is sick! Thats a good thing, so my son says. :
> 
> Matt



We'll see how it looks when I put the brass ring on, be something like one I tried making last year but a three spoke version.

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Feb 5, 2011)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> Why am I suddenly hungry?



It's them sardines. You gotta open the can to get at them.
See that tab? Just like a beer can. Shouldn't be a problem. ;D

Looking good Robert.


----------



## Foozer (Feb 5, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> It's them sardines. You gotta open the can to get at them.
> See that tab? Just like a beer can. Shouldn't be a problem. ;D
> 
> Looking good Robert.



Tab? Tab? what tab? AH there it is, no wonder, I been looking for key thing thinking I got a bunch of defective cans. If I drank beer I'd know. Boy is my face red  Ah little soldiers, your fate awaits, Rye and mustard seeks ya out

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 6, 2011)

Well that was interesting, Lesson, dont lose your index mark. 

Got the piston bores drilled up, did some clean up on the cylinder portion. If it warms up a bit I'll get the flywheel hub cleaned up to size.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 7, 2011)

Cleaning up what will be the flywheel hub. Bring the inner curvy features to size. Piece is located upon the faceplate via the center bolt and a scribe mark. Trick is to not skim the scribe mark off, Oh well does say newbie in the title.

Know the boring bar could of been stuffed up closer but once I got it to travel the length with hitting I wasn't going to move it without a Presidential Order to which NO! would still apply. Running about 150 rpm and 0.0025 feed. A HSS insert and a cup of coffee.

Stone axe and flint knifes. Even if I had a mill I wouldn't know how to use it 

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm thinking you're a magician with a face plate.

I noticed the box of ZEE. Somehow seems appropriate but don't know why.


----------



## Foozer (Feb 7, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I'm thinking you're a magician with a face plate.



Oh No, what you guys do with a mill is magic, I'm just stumbling round in the dark.



> I noticed the box of ZEE. Somehow seems appropriate but don't know why.



 :shrug: Me neither


Don't know if this thing will even run, That stage is a ways off yet, but it is fun trying to make it. Be a lot easier if I just stuck to the plan, but what fun is that!

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 11, 2011)

Trying a trial look and see, Just set what will be the flywheel ring against the web piece. Web piece needs a good debur but sometimes looking at a piece other than in hand gives another perspective. So in a moment Ill see and go from there. 

Could also I suppose leave it rimless. Looks like the way the elbow engine is powered it is not so dependent upon the rotating mass to keep it going.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 11, 2011)

Figure what the heck, put the rim on. But first give it a bit of clean up. Where the soft jaws come into there own. Once the dia is found and an appropriate plug put into place the jaws get a little clean up cut. Now this old lathe has sleeve bearings and its little quirk is it really likes a bit of pre-load against the spindle so the plug is long and the tailstock provides the pre-load.

One of these days I'll address the issue but for now blah

Now that the jaws are true a couple, three, four thou clean-up cut on the Id of the rim takes place. It'll get a skim cut all way round. 

Soft jaws and the use is thanks to Bogs by his post on flywheels done some time ago.

If nothing else this wheel wont be a wobblier

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 12, 2011)

So after diddling with the flywheel rim twas time to tackle the web. Finish ID of the rim came out to be 3.000 +/- .001 as best as the callipers would measure so shooting for 3.004 OD on the web. Thinking a heat on the rim and chill on the web for a good fit. Really didn't want to use up another 10 bucks worth of soft jaws so went back to the face plate. Used the live center to locate piece, small bolt to drive and cuts of 0.005.

Ended up at 3.0045 at least 2 of 3 measures say so. Ill take it. Have to make up a small bit to keep the rim and web aligned when they get put together but thats a tomorrow job.

Seeing as how this is but my 2nd built up flywheel I really have no clue.

Robert


----------



## mklotz (Feb 13, 2011)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> Ended up at 3.0045 at least 2 of 3 measures say so.



I'm puzzled by how you managed to measure the diameter of a tri-lobal structure to half a thousandth accuracy. Would you mind writing a few words about how you did that?


----------



## Foozer (Feb 13, 2011)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> I'm puzzled by how you managed to measure the diameter of a tri-lobal structure to half a thousandth accuracy. Would you mind writing a few words about how you did that?



Ouch, Very Carefully, do I actually believe the numbers? does the 0.0005 count, ah No, I hear you on the tri-lobal bit, my salvation is that the tips still go past the centerline so for all intents it is still a circle. Prior to this turning down to size the Diameter was in the 3.150 plus range if I remember so the tips were way past the center line. Took a couple of measures and used the DI on the cross slide to get me down to the target. Process should be good. Are the tools I have accurate enough to just go by the dials? No No No, not by a long shot. Its a creep up and measure measure measure. Now If the tips were above the centerline, well, I know it can be done, but that math is way beyond my ability. Then what is it, chord to dia relationship, my head hurts even thinking about it.

Chepo calipers, I measure a few times, if the numbers match I gotta take it as close. So this photo shot measure comes up as 3.004. Even this number is just infield using what I have. Proof will be in the fitting so if you hear a loud holler . . .

Robert


----------



## mklotz (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification, Robert. Good planning that, having the lobes extend past the centerline.


----------



## Foozer (Feb 13, 2011)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Thanks for the clarification, Robert. Good planning that, having the lobes extend past the centerline.



Planning? Did I forget to mention this was web number 2?  


Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 13, 2011)

So Marv got me to thinking, or at least an unanswered question that I lucked out and did not have to address. What if the tips were above center line? How to measure the dia on a piece unable to get a direct reading from.

Do not know if this is an acceptable means and I lack the tools to test it. Would seem that a known flat surface is number 1 and a round gauge block is also required. With the gauge against one of the lobes the measurement could be taken from inner hole point "A" to gauge block point "B" Take away 1/2 the dia of the center hole and the radius AB should be found.

Robert


----------



## mklotz (Feb 13, 2011)

There's no need for that cylinder on the circumference of the rotor.

Mount the rotor vertically on the surface plate and use a height gage to measure the distance from the circumference to a close-fitting gage pin inserted in the central bore.

You can do it by measuring the chord but then you have to know either the:

subtended angle
arc length
sagitta

to find the radius. The trig is easy but if it hurts your neurons you can use my program.


----------



## Foozer (Feb 14, 2011)

While waiting for the "haven't a clue but lets try the tumbler for polish" to do its thing, figured I'd actual get ready to insert the web into the rim. Now the numbers say the web has an OD of 3.004 in and the rim has an ID of 3.000. At least the web didn't just fall into the hole so. Rim has a lip on the ID for the web to stop against. I dont want to apply any pressure to the hub of the web so turned down a piece of round just a tad smaller that the ID of the rim. Bored a hole into the center of this "jig?" so only the spokes and not the hub will receive the force. Drilled and tapped a 1/4-20 into the jig center to hold web in place and hopefully the mass of the jig will hold the cold long enough for the piece to be pressed into place. Rim will be heated to about 250-300 degrees and worry about the heat tansfer causing the web to stick. Probably mountain mole hill thing but what the heck. Least this way the web has a better chance of being placed without cracking a spoke.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Feb 28, 2011)

SNAP!!!  Just the sound one dreads when tapping :

Been too cold to get into the garage much more than few minutes at a time afore the fingers give out, so figured I'd drill and tap the 2-56 holes needed cause i dont follow plans. It'll show why later. 

One hole done ok, second one and SNAP. Chilly fingers just do not have the feel, combined with cheap tap and a 0.070 hole.

Thank God for the ALUM. Twenty four hours of stewing and the tap is gone. As I have 4 more of these holes to do I'm just gonna wait for the 0.073 drills and hopefully better taps to arrive.

The ALUM was just the ol McCormick spice type, warm water, below boil, saturated solution? sorta, water temp dropped down to a level of not wanting to keep finger in for long and could see the powder coming out of solution. Close enough. Sure does leave a tad of smut on the part, small price to pay for having mud hands.

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Mar 3, 2011)

Just in case, which of course will never happen, another tap breaks. I'm a ready

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Mar 12, 2011)

Was getting bored so put the flywheel together for S&G. Kept dinking around with the pieces in the tumbler, only way to end that fun is present. Little heat to the rim and cool to the web, POOF!

Keeps me busy and away from the Honey-Do list

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Jul 22, 2011)

Seems a day or two has passed but finally got enough of the move behind me, only moved a couple of miles but what a yeehaw.

Dug out enough stuff and set up a sort of workshop so went and tackled the piston making.
First crack at bending (lower right) resulted in a crack. Others better, let the heat soak in and slow bend to 45, flipped end for end and repeated. Bend much nicer.

Hopefully wont be another 4 months for the next piece.

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jul 22, 2011)

Glad to see you're still working on this.
How much do you have done? How about a family pic of parts?
And while you're at it...pics of the shop?


----------



## Foozer (Jul 25, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Glad to see you're still working on this.
> How much do you have done?




Getting closer, still have a piece or two of dressy parts to make. Some touch up and I can call it done. Thing will actually spin over by hand if I oil it up good. Getting air to it is another story, no 220 in this place other than the dryer. Gonna have to find an empty circuit and run a line. Always something. Anywho heres a shot of it for better or worse. One thing about trying to make things, sure doesn't take long for me to figure I'm a clueless.

Robert


----------



## arnoldb (Jul 25, 2011)

;D Thm: Not far off now Robert!

 : They want quite a lot of air - and try different oil viscosities.

Regards, Arnold


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Jul 25, 2011)

Looking forward to the video Robert.


----------



## Foozer (Jul 25, 2011)

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Looking forward to the video Robert.




 :wall:  :redface2: Have to remake the valve port block, some chuckerhead drilled it for a 1/4-20 instead of for the called out 10-24. NOW I see why. Posed to be a type of shoulder bolt so that it STAYS in position. Loctite'd the pivot bolt in place and the slop in the threads sent it a tad kittywampus.

It needed something and this little goof lets me try to balance out the image, Ya Right!

Robert


----------



## Foozer (Aug 3, 2011)

Redid the valve block, this time out of brass which the look I like better. made a little dumb nut for the back side of the flywheel to carry out the brass and three spoke look.

So its a Blue and Yellow gizmo, Does it run? find out soon enough. Could be shinier, I just don't have the touch. I'm happy enough with the colour combo and it will turn over by hand. Soon as i figure out a means to charge the air tank shall see if it rolls on its own.

Was a fun project.

Robert


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Aug 3, 2011)

Foozer  said:
			
		

> Was a fun project.



'Was'? You're not done Robert. We need the video.

Looks good!


----------



## lazylathe (Aug 3, 2011)

Looks great Robert!!!

Could you explain how it works?
It looks like a very confusing engine to me...
Must be something i am missing in the design but it sure does look cool!!!!

Andrew

PS: I found a youtube solidworks animation of how this engine functions!


----------



## Foozer (Aug 3, 2011)

I'll be back. . . managed to get oil sprayed all over the place. Think new pistons are in order, just a tad on the loose side. See if a tighter fit will get it to spin up 'stead of the teasing its a doing now. Aint kidding about having everything on the nut and straight in order for that design to work.


Robert


----------



## SBWHART (Aug 4, 2011)

Robert

Elbow engine are a bit choosey as to the type of oil they like, thin 3 in 1 oil is no good, they like something thick and sticky:- outo engine oil or gear oil, I use slideways oil which is nice and sticky.

Stew


----------



## Blogwitch (Aug 4, 2011)

A lot of people get fooled into thinking that because it looks an easy build, it will be.

Nothing is further from the truth, if things aren't PERFECTLY square and in line, you will have great trouble getting it to run with any sort of reliability.

There must be more of these as non runners sitting under benches, than any other engine .

There is a secret, perseverance, patience and tweaking, then even more perseverance, patience and tweaking. 
If you have that in your bones, then you should have no troubles at all.


John


----------



## Foozer (Sep 25, 2011)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> There is a secret, perseverance, patience and tweaking, then even more perseverance, patience and tweaking.
> If you have that in your bones, then you should have no troubles at all.
> 
> John



Tis done! Gotta keep telling myself to save the fancy till after the majors are done. New flywheel and cylinder and she be a runner.

Video coming in a bit, gotta find the right type of music. And it really looked so easy. HA!

Robert


----------

