# Bogs bites the bullet, again.



## Blogwitch (Apr 29, 2010)

After vowing never to make things from castings again, because of the very bad quality that seems to be produced in the UK, I have decided to change my mind.

I was having a discussion with Stew the other day, and said that I wouldn't mind making another gas engine, as long as I could find one that could be put to use, and a very long term project, so that as to how I felt on a certain day, I could pick it up again or drop it (not literally, as I have a bad habit of doing that) depending on my whims.

I searched high and low to find one in the UK that matched my requirements. I even searched in the US, but postage and import duties put me off those, adding well over 50% to the kit price.

Eventually, I managed to find one that fitted the bill perfectly, the R&B, produced by Bruce Engineering.

This is a picture of it from their catalogue, unfortunately, whoever built it, didn't do a very good job, and I am sure I can do a little better.







For a complete description, you need to download their catalogue and find page 24.

http://www.pollymodelengineering.co.uk/sections/bruce-engineering/docs/cat_oct08a.pdf

It is well worth going thru the catalogue, as they do some very reasonably priced and unusual engines in their repertoire.

Just to give you an idea of the size, that is a 12" flywheel fitted to it. I have ordered my set to come with twin 9" ones. It uses cheap Myford change gears for the timing train, and they have already been ordered from RDG, one 30 tooth and one 60 tooth for less than 20 squid. You wouldn't want to make them yourself for that price.

They say it is a gas engine, and can run on propane or almost any gas, but they do stipulate, that by fitting a carb, it runs well on petrol, that is the direction I will be taking.

I don't think this would make a good build sequence, as it will be such a long term project, but I will give a write up about the quality of the castings etc. after I have picked it up from the Harrogate show.


Bogs


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## lathe nut (Apr 29, 2010)

That's real nice, Lathe Nut


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## fcheslop (Apr 29, 2010)

Why did you have to post this? My to build list keeps getting longer and longer I know what you mean about the quality of castings in the UK but I'm tempted are they going to have them at Harrogate? better take the card with me :big:


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## SAM in LA (Apr 29, 2010)

Bogs,

Even though this is a long term build, I know that I would learn so much by reading your build notes. Please reconsider posting your build sequence.

SAM


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## slick95 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nice engine Bogs 

Read the catalog, you going to fit the governor to the engine? I wonder if the gov is a fly ball style. No pictures or description in the catalog.

Anyway, look forward to your evaluation of the castings, etc....

Jeff


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## Blogwitch (Apr 29, 2010)

fcheslop,

I doubt very much if they take them to Harrogate, it is just too much weight for them to carry about. In fact they are not taking it to the stand, I need to pick it up from their wagon. I ordered and paid for it the other day, and to save me the 40+ squid postage, they are taking it to the show for me. It is only just over a week to go to the show, so I doubt if I paid the postage, it would get here much before that.
You should also have a look at some of their other casting sets, there are some very nice unique engines in amongst them, in fact, for the cost of it, their little flame licker looks a treat, and if they have any at the show, I will pick one of those up as well.

Jeff,

I think the governor is the flywheel type, like on most hit & miss engines, but I can't be sure. But if it can be fitted, I will put it on there.


Bogs


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## fcheslop (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi Bogs, looked at the flame licker at last years Harrogate show and liked it although the model on display didnt do it justice also liked the little gas engine but was put off when they told me they couldnt get it to run on propane/butane. Hope the visit goes well.
regards frazer


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## Blogwitch (Apr 29, 2010)

Frazer,

It really annoys me when you see a trade stand with sub standard made versions on display. That is why I made the comment on my first post about the R&B engine, hoping I could make it to a better standard.

But it is like everything else, even Elmers engines can be made to look a lot better if a bit more care is taken with the building blocks you have to work with. It takes very little extra time to take it from an ordinary or mediocre looking model to one that is good to look at. The 'WOW' factor is all dependent on how much time you are willing to spend on it.

You can usually see if castings are up to the job or not, just by looking at how it has been fettled, or if bent and misaligned, or have suspect depressions in the outer skin. Unfortunately, not having x-ray eyes, you can't see what is on the inside, you find out about that later on. 

Car body filler and paint can cover up a multitude of sins when it comes to castings.


Bogs


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## Blogwitch (Apr 30, 2010)

The timing gears that I ordered for this engine turned up today.






Methinks this is going to be a B-I-G project, literally.

Can it be classed as a model engine, or a full sized build? 

Bogs


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## cfellows (May 2, 2010)

Bogs, thanks for the link to their catalog. Some really nice and unusual engines they have.

Chuck


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## John S (May 2, 2010)

Those gears look funny John.

The 30 tooth looks OK but the 60 looks to have an odd tooth form, for a start from the pic's it deeper than the 30 but number of teeth don't matter, the depth should be constant.

????

John S.


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## Blogwitch (May 2, 2010)

Chuck,

I will be giving their castings a good dose of looking at when I go to the Harrogate show this coming weekend. Then I will know whether they are worth recommending or not. But you are quite right, and as I said, they do have a few unusual engines in their collection that you don't normally see, and the prices look to be very reasonable when compared to the likes of Stuarts and Reeves, neither of which would I recommend, purely for personal reasons.

John,

I have just checked out every tooth, and they are all the same length and they mesh just fine, but it does seem that the larger gear wheel teeth are maybe a couple of thou too long. It just might be a hoptical dillusion you are seeing.

I do actually have the cutters for making this pair, left over from when I refurbished an old Myford lathe years ago, but for less than 20 squid all in, it wasn't worth making them myself.

John


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## Blogwitch (May 9, 2010)

After whipping the pack horse a bit yesterday, Stew finally managed to get these very heavy castings into my garden. 

I am going to try to give you an unbiased appraisal of what I find on them, I have a fair bit of experience with castings from times past, both good and bad. I can't check on overall sizes, because I haven't even undone the plans yet, so this is just what I found.

This is the major casting, solid aluminium, in places about 2" thick. There has been a little bit of fettling (rough cleaning up) done, but not too much. I can see no blowholes or inclusions at all on the surface of the castings, and no depressions to give an indication of voids in the insides.






The underside, showing where the filling funnels must have been, and now cut off almost flush. I like to see this, as it shows whoever has done the fettling hasn't gone too mad doing it.






Now the inside, a nice smooth finish, and I can already see that with a little cleaning off, a touch of primer, and it will be OK for a nice finish coat of paint.






A nice pair of cast iron flywheels, again, no obvious signs of anything nasty lurking, and again also, only been lightly fettled. The spokes align perfectly from side to side, and I can see these requiring very little work to get them up to a finished product.
Also notice the large and beefy holding stud, that will make machining of these flywheels a piece of cake.






Here are the cast iron cylinder barrel and head, plus the cast aluminium piston, Yet again, perfectly fettled, and I can't find any external faults on them. I just wish I had x-ray specs, so I could see what they are like inside. 






The remainder of the castings are just like before, great quality. On here is a 4" disc of steel for the crank counterbalance weights, bronze castings for the big end and crank bearings plus the timing adjustment arm and cam follower bracket, then a pair of cast aluminium bearing caps.






And now for something completely different.
A couple of pieces of flame cut material. The one at the back, a massive piece of 1 3/8" thick material to make the crank out of, and at the front, a 1" thick con rod. I gave both of these a file test, and I don't envisage any problems with machining them. All the hard dross has been very carefully fettled off. Someone really knows how to rough cut parts like this.






These are all the bits, shown roughly in their right places.
There were a couple of bits missing, not castings, but large lumps of round cast iron bar. A quick call to Bruce Engineering should soon have those winging their way to me.







So what do I think about this casting kit?

I suppose you can already gather, I am over the moon with it. As long as the dimensions measure up, and nothing is too small (a bad practice usually found on a no name mentioned high quality supplier from the Channel Islands) I reckon it was a good buy and value for money.

And now something else completely different.

While I was at the show yesterday, I asked on the Polly Model stand if they had a certain engine I could look at. The gentleman disappeared for a while and came back toting this casting and assembly kit. Everything needed to produce a flame licker apart from the machining bit. Bronze and cast iron castings, plus all the things required to make it, including ball races and springs. Actually there was another thing missing, the burner, but they had on the plans two methods of powering this engine, either a spirit and wick burner or a rechargeable gas tank and associated burner. Full instructions for both, and because I already have a coupler of spare rechargeable tanks, I will be going for gas power.
The castings for this were just like the ones above, absolutely great. The water jacket must weigh at least a couple of pounds (1 kilo), and even though it looks very rough, the bronze flywheel is beautifully cast. I broke away a bit of the flash with my fingers, and the elliptical spokes are perfectly in line, and the cast iron base casting is of the same sort of quality.






I will be making this before starting on the large castings job, just to get me back into the swing of using castings again. Engines usually take a lot more trouble to make from castings than they do from billet material, mainly because you have no fixed datum faces to work from, you have to find and make your own.

I hope that this has given you a little insight into the castings being produced by Polly Models/Bruce Engineering. If all their model castings and parts are up to the standard of these two examples, then I would have no problem in recommending them.


Bogs


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## kellswaterri (May 9, 2010)

Wa Hey!!! Bogsy,...that lot will keep you busy for some time to come...Keeep her cutting,
                 John.


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## kvom (May 9, 2010)

Planning to finish the Halo project?


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## Blogwitch (May 9, 2010)

John,

If my health stays at its present level, I hope to see the large one finished in about 18 months, I said it is going to be a long term, no pressure project.

Kvom, 

The Halo project will be coming back on line again. I need to get the gas burner restarted after my layoff for building the covered way and the private work I am doing at the moment, which shouldn't be too long. 

Once the gas burner is finished, I have one or two small machine tooling projects I want out of the way, then I hope to carry on with the Halo build on here rather than over on Madmodder. I have too much time and effort invested in that build to have it disappear into oblivion. It will take me some time to get the posting on there cleaned up, removing all the unnecessary bits, mainly questions and replies, and transferred onto here. That first part must be kept with what is to follow.

Having just checked the plans and shipping note again, it seems that there is in fact a casting missing, so that will be reported tomorrow along with the missing bar. They said when I ordered it that some items might not be in stock, so will be sent later, so I have no concerns at this time.

And just for Jeff, it is a flyball governor, and it is all fully detailed on the plans. So this engine will definitely get one.


Bogs


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## Twmaster (May 9, 2010)

Terrific looking parts John. I'll be keeping an eye here for your progress.


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## fcheslop (May 9, 2010)

Hi John ,those castings look good hope they measure up OK and the flame liker is tempting but so are so many projects at the moment :big:
regards Frazer


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## manfred albert (May 23, 2010)

Hello Bogs,

looking forward on Your report for the R & B Gas Engine from Polly. The drawings I have on hand. The pattern I make by myself. with this business I have fun. At the time I`m busy with the Bremer & Brückmann Stirlingmotor build with my one castings. On my other post Flamelicker build by casting VW ST 60/90 this one runs by gas. You can regulate the speed very nice from 60 to 250 rpm. Next I have to due, to measure the output power.

Manfred

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8582.0


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## Blogwitch (May 23, 2010)

Manfred,

Even though it doesn't seem like it, I read every post that comes onto the site, including your great work.

I have a problem with chattering away too much when I reply to postings, and if I replied to every one, I don't think I would be able to do anything.

Anyway Manfred, regarding these castings, Rob over on Maddmodder is just making up a set of patterns for the large R&B engine, and they are a lot more detailed than the ones I have bought. He is doing a wonderful job on them.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3137.0

I honestly wish now I had got into casting many years ago when I had the chance. Unfortunately, it is too late now. So I have to drool when I see the wonders you come up with.


John


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