# Small V8



## stevehuckss396

Hello all!

I have hit a creative wall with the straight 8 so I have decided to put it aside and work on something else. This new project is something I have wanted to do for some time. I finally have the plans in good shape, well good enough to start. I like the size of the peewee V4 so i borrowed the 5/8 bore and stroke and will try to build a V8.








This V8 will be small by most standards. 5/8 bore and stroke. It will have splash oil system and have a coolant system. Unlike Peewee, It will have a more conventional head setup with valve covers. The block will be about 5 inches long with heads at 4.5 inches. I will shoot for 6:1 compression. The cam will be about the same as the peewee as far as lift and duration. Seems like a doable size for smaller equipment.

The down side is that I could only fit # 8 spark plugs in this one so I'll have to make my own. Also the distributor cap sold by Roy is too big so I will have to make my own. The ignition will need to be toned down to control spark.

It will be built using manual equipment and CNC equipment. I know that's a turn off for some but I didn't build a CNC mill so I could look at it across the garage. I'm hoping it will speed things along when making 16 rocker arms or 16 of something else.


The block is made from a 3 X 3 X 5 block of aluminum.


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## T70MkIII

I'm really looking forward to this build, Steve, as I intend to build a small gas powered V8 once I have developed the necessary skills. I have learned a lot from your WIP threads so far, and I look forward to learning plenty more.

What type of aluminium did you choose?


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## crankshafter

Hi Steve
Nice beginnig on the V8. I'll be watching this build, for sure 
I have missed the stright 8,but I'm sure you will be finnishing it when you comes down from the wall :big: 

CS


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## BenPeake

That is a monster of a project. Can't wait to see more pictures! Thanks for posting.


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## deere_x475guy

Looks like you have a good start on this Steve. Any plan to cast some of the parts?


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## stevehuckss396

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> I'm really looking forward to this build, Steve, as I intend to build a small gas powered V8 once I have developed the necessary skills. I have learned a lot from your WIP threads so far, and I look forward to learning plenty more.
> 
> What type of aluminium did you choose?



I used 6061. 6061 is good for every part of a small engine. I might use some 7075 for the pistons but everything will be 6061.


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## stevehuckss396

crankshafter  said:
			
		

> I have missed the stright 8,but I'm sure you will be finnishing it when you comes down from the wall :big:



I have made some motor mounts but have not put up pictures. I have to work out the ignition. I can make up my mind so i'll let it bake in my head for a while. I will make that thing run.


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## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Looks like you have a good start on this Steve. Any plan to cast some of the parts?



Not on this one.


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## stevehuckss396

Well we are off to a bad start. I screwed up the block so i'll have to have it welded up before i proceed. 


I thought that starting on the heads would take my mind off things. I worked on getting the blocks squared up and machining them to the correct shape. 






















While the heads were being worked on the CNC machine was chopping away at another piece of the puzzle. In the time it took to make 2 blanks for the heads, the CNC spit out the oil pan. 














Here is where i'm at. Bummer about the block.


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## stevehuckss396

First thing I did was mill the valve cover surface and create the pocket. 







The holes are drilled on the bottom and a small water passage was milled in the surface.













The exhaust port surface is prepared but will need to be drilled to the port after the valve cages are installed.








I still need to do the bottom to create the combustion chamber and I also need to do the intake surface. Hopfully tomorrow! It's starting to look like a head.


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## zeeprogrammer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Well we are off to a bad start. I screwed up the block



Apologies if this is a reminder of a boo-boo...but I don't understand what the boo-boo is. What needs to be welded up? The parts look awesome to me.


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## stevehuckss396

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Apologies if this is a reminder of a boo-boo...but I don't understand what the boo-boo is. What needs to be welded up? The parts look awesome to me.



Made a bad cut on the block after the last photo was taken. Just need to touch up 2 surfaces and redrill one hole.


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## kustomkb

Awesome work Steve!

Looking forward to this one.


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## kcmillin

Ok, you got my full attention Steve. This is turning out to be a pretty awesome engine. 

This is your design? 

Kel


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## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> This is your design?



Yes and no. I took some peewee and threw in a dash of nitro V8 and a tea spoon of big block chevy and walla.

I liked the size of the Peewee but I had to stretch the block to make the heads work. I had some plans for a nitro V8 that had a pretty good head, so i reworked it (alot) to work on the block. Then everything else I drew for this engine specifically.


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## Metal Mickey

Nice to see a new project start and especially one from you. I see Alibre features heavily and just the plans alone are a big project so well done.

I understand the comment re CNC and I go hot and cold on a mill for the future. Could you annotate any picture if its done by CNC? Take it as a compliment about telling the difference! If you want any help re camshaft design and a cutting chart them let me know....I know this chap......oh.. forgot, its you!

Looking forward to the build Steve, from design to running will be a great achievement.


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## metalmad

lookig fantastic so far
will be watching


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## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
It looks like you're making great progress on this build already. Are you going to be making an intake manifold similar to the one on your other engine? I silver soldered mine out of two pieces and it worked quite well. 
George


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## stevehuckss396

Got the intake surface done. If you are wondering why i put the 1/4 inch recess where the port goes. It helps me to locate when I cross drill to the port.

Also made the combustion chamber cuts. Next move will be to drill and ream for the valve cages.


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## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> It looks like you're making great progress on this build already. Are you going to be making an intake manifold similar to the one on your other engine? I silver soldered mine out of two pieces and it worked quite well.
> George



Going to try a one piece. If that fails . . . .. We'll talk.


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## stevehuckss396

Metal Mickey  said:
			
		

> Could you annotate any picture if its done by CNC? Take it as a compliment about telling the difference!



Great to hear from you Mickey. This whole mess was done in Alibre. As for the CNC, Look at the photo of the combustion chambers. The bottom of the head was done manually and the chambers were CNC'ed. You can tell the differance just looking at them.

Hope your health is good!!

Steve


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## kuhncw

Hi Steve,

I enjoy watching your V8 taking shape and boy are you flying along.

When you CNC'd the oil pan, did you do some roughing on the manual mill, the inside cavity for example, or did you let the CNC do all the work? If you have any photos of the fixturing and machining for the oil pan, you might post them. I'd like to see how you held the material.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


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## Metal Mickey

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> The bottom of the head was done manually and the chambers were CNC'ed. You can tell the differance just looking at them.
> 
> Steve



Thanks Steve, I see what you mean. Will follow your work with great interest including the drawing if you include it.

Great work as always.


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## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> When you CNC'd the oil pan, did you do some roughing on the manual mill, the inside cavity for example, or did you let the CNC do all the work? If you have any photos of the fixturing and machining for the oil pan, you might post them. I'd like to see how you held the material.



Sorry no pictures. 
I grabbed a block in the vise and cut the bottom from the oil plug boss all the way down to the rim where it bolts to the block. Then I just flipped it over and grabbed it in the vise again and did the top rim and inside and the blot pattern from the top. Yes I did rough the center out on the big mill. Then the CNC mill just cut the last bit out and the last .025 on the bottom.


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## stevehuckss396

Today I managed to get the pockets for the valve cages cut in. I'm hoping to get the exhaust ports drilled tomorrow and the intake ports done over the weekend. That will complete the heads as far as cutting. Then I will spend a few days threading the many holes i have made. I also have the block back from the welder so i begin to make progress on that when the heads are done.


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## cfellows

Ambitious build, Steve, but your progress so far is pretty impressive. Very nice work.

Chuck


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## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Ambitious build, Steve, but your progress so far is pretty impressive. Very nice work.
> 
> Chuck



Thanks Chuck! I have a feeling things will slow down when i start making 16 of everything. Oh buddy!


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## kcmillin

That head looks great Steve. So much in a small space. :bow: 

Kel


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## kuhncw

Steve, thanks for the comments about holding the oil pan for machining.

Looking good.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


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## stevehuckss396

Not much to report other than the exhaust ports are drilled in. I need to get a set of angle blocks so i can drill the intake ports in at exactly 21 degrees. Won't be any action until Monday. Youngest son graduates from HS tomorrow and the party is on Sunday.


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## kcmillin

Steve, I got a couple questions. 
What was your setup to cut the angles for the heads, if you currently don't have angle blocks?

And I am a little confused about the water passage in the heads, is there more than the eye can see?

Kel


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## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Steve, I got a couple questions. What was your setup to cut the angles for the heads, if you currently don't have angle blocks?
> And I am a little confused about the water passage in the heads, is there more than the eye can see?



I have a vise that swivels but the head is to long to be held long ways. The vise wont open far enough. If i get a set of blocks I can just use my normal milling vise and use the blocks to tilt the head. I'll get a picture of the head when I drill the intakes. I am being extra careful because when I drill, the intake hole will miss the pushrod hole on one side and the head bolt hole on the other side by .030.

The water passage is just there to allow the coolant to flow out of the block and into the intake manifold. The idea is to have the water flow in a "standard appearing" route. The coolant will enter the pump and flow down the odd bank of cylinders. It will flow thru a passage in the bell housing adapter and back down the even bank. From there it will exit the block and flow thru the head and intake manifold and out a thermostat housing and back to the radiator. Should look like the real deal.


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## kcmillin

Thanks for the explanation Steve. Sound like a pretty good plan to me.

Kel


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## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Steve, I got a couple questions.
> What was your setup to cut the angles for the heads, if you currently don't have angle blocks?




Hi Kel!

I snapped a few pics that will further help to understand what i did here. 


Every angle I needed to cut and drill allowed me hold the part in the angle vise like this.







The intake ports needed to be drilled where the head would need to be tilted like this
But as you can see my vise wont open far enough.








So I purchased a set of angle blocks si i could tilt the heads to exactly 21 degrees in my standard vise.
I hope this helps.


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## stevehuckss396

In the above post to Kel you can see the last pic is the intake ports being drilled. All went very well and
I have 2 heads that are very nice. Now that they are done I can get back to the block!


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## kcmillin

Thanks For the pics Steve. 

And Wow, I had a hard time designing a V4 steamer that big and you got a hole V8 4cycle head in the same space. The pic with your hand was very helpful in determining scale.

Kel


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## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> And Wow, I had a hard time designing a V4 steamer that big and you got a hole V8 4cycle head in the same space. The pic with your hand was very helpful in determining scale.



Yeah man! I think I started on them last Saturday so they were alot of work/time. I am happy with them. Everything is within a few thou and most times closer. The scary part is drilling the ports and not hitting a hole. They only miss by .035 or something like that. There is alot packed onto that little block of aluminum.


Only a year to go!!


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## gbritnell

Excellent job Steve. I ran into a similar problem when making my 302 heads. What I ended up doing was to make the port the correct size, which ran through the pushrod hole, then made the pushrod hole over sized and sleeved it back down. This gave me my port capacity while still fitting it in the small space. Is this engine going to be pressure oiled, if so I can tell you how I set mine up.
George


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## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Excellent job Steve. I ran into a similar problem when making my 302 heads. What I ended up doing was to make the port the correct size, which ran through the pushrod hole, then made the pushrod hole over sized and sleeved it back down. This gave me my port capacity while still fitting it in the small space. Is this engine going to be pressure oiled, if so I can tell you how I set mine up.
> George



I'm going to make it splash like the Peewee. The crankshaft is very small and I think drilling holes would be a bad idea. The bad part is that the valve covers will need to be taken off once in a while to lube the rockers. 

Of course it wouldn't hurt to look at what you have for future projects!!


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## deere_x475guy

DANG!!!!


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## stevehuckss396

Now that the heads are completed we are back to the block. The repaired spot looks good. 


The block now has water passages. I like using a key cutter for the jackets








The block is now cut to size top and bottom.







And the pockets are roughed in. Now I need to drill and tap the main cap holes, make the main caps, and bolt them on so i can machine the bottom.


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## Speedy

thanks for updates Steve 
I cannot wait for the next post ;D


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## m_kilde

Hi Steve

Just wanted to let you know that I also find you project adsolutely fantastic to follow


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## kvom

Those are neat fixtures for clamping the block in the vise.


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## stevehuckss396

m_kilde  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve
> 
> Just wanted to let you know that I also find you project adsolutely fantastic to follow



Thanks!


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## stevehuckss396

kvom  said:
			
		

> Those are neat fixtures for clamping the block in the vise.



They are like mini V blocks. I made them from some 1/2 inch square stock. They work good and are low profile so they seldom get in the way.


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## rockwave

Hey stevehuckss396. I was wondering if you sell digital designs??.
Amazing what you do!


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## stevehuckss396

rockwave  said:
			
		

> Hey stevehuckss396. I was wondering if you sell digital designs??.
> Amazing what you do!



What do you mean by digital designs? Do you mean plans?


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## rockwave

Yes I mean the plans ;D


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## stevehuckss396

rockwave  said:
			
		

> Yes I mean the plans ;D



No I don't. I can draw things but i do not make very good drawings. I can make things good enough for myself to go out in the garage and make parts. As far as formal drawings, they are very "not so good"


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## rockwave

Ok np
Keep up the good jod


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## hobby

Beautiful handywork, on your engine, great setups, a good learning thread. 

side Note:
I bought a tilting vice a few months ago, I see yours has the V-groove on the fixed jaw also, mine came with the groove on the fixed jaw too, and I thought someone assembled it to the wrong jaw, so the first thing I did was switch the jaw plates so the V groove was on the moveable jaw, so I can indicate the vice using the fixed jaw.

Didn't realize until now, (seeing yours) that there suppose to be on the fixed jaw. (I guess).


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## stevehuckss396

hobby  said:
			
		

> Didn't realize until now, (seeing yours) that there suppose to be on the fixed jaw. (I guess).



No big deal, just switch it back.


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## steamer

Thats looking awesome Steve!.....I'm a watching! ;D

Dave


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## Maryak

steamer  said:
			
		

> Thats looking awesome Steve!.....I'm a watching! ;D
> 
> Dave



So am I. ;D

Best Regards
Bob


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## stevehuckss396

Maryak  said:
			
		

> So am I. ;D
> 
> Best Regards
> Bob



Thanks, hoping to get back at it early next week.


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## stevehuckss396

Had a chance to get the main bearing supports done. Took a skim cut on a 1.375 inch long piece of aluminum.








Spot drilled the holes with a center drill and drilled thru. Had a wise old sage tell me to always drill the mating surface of any piece. It takes a bit longer that way but I have never had trouble with misaligned holes.








Cut the steps in the bolt surfaces. Instead of the old cut and measure I tried something different. I took half the width of the bump in the part and half the diameter of the cutter and added that together. Found the center of the piece. Moved over the calculated distance and just mowed right thru. Moved over to the other side of the part the calculated distance and mowed my way back. The part measured .0015 larger than the print. Close enough for this guy. I will be doing that again.







Drilled and tapped the block








And now the bottom is ready to complete. The main caps are .250 wide and the finished width will be .212. The caps will be cut to thickness as the pockets are completed so they match perfectly. Then they will be number punched so I cant mix them up.


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## steamer

Is that jaw stop a standard Kurt accessory?

If so I have GOT to get me one of them!

That block is very sexy Steve......awesome build as usual.!

Dave


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## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Is that jaw stop a standard Kurt accessory?



Hi Dave.

Yes it is a standard Kurt accessory. Here is a clip from KBC's catalog.

Extended length work stop assembly,
suitable to use with 4" & 6" jaw on outside.
Part No. 1-5721-WSRLE46 (Kurt's # is WSRLE46)
Our Net Price $20.00


If you don't have a fixed jaw with the groove in the top that can be had for another 38 bucks.


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## kcmillin

Wow, 4 bolt main. Thats turning out to be quite a stout little beastie.

Well Done Thm:

Kel


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## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Maybe I missed something but what about the front and rear mains?
George


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## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> Maybe I missed something but what about the front and rear mains?
> George



The front and rear mains are ball bearings. The oil pan acts as the front and rear caps. That means I need to get the pockets and oil pan bolt pattern in the bottom of the block. Then the crank and cam bores are done with the oil pan bolted on.


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## CherokeeJ

This is beyond amazing.

I need a box of tissues. I'm going to go sit in the corner and cry now. :'(


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## stevehuckss396

CherokeeJ  said:
			
		

> I'm going to go sit in the corner and cry now. :'(



Better yet you could buy some metal and make one just like it.


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## stevehuckss396

I managed to get the bolt pattern in to bolt up the oil pan. 









Then the pockets were cut to clearance the crankshaft.








Now the oil pan is on so i can bore the crankshaft and camshaft tunnels and finish all the pockets for the timing gears, basically the front and rear of the block.









Then I wanted to see what it was going to look like so i used a few small drill bits to hold the heads on


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## kuhncw

Hi Steve,

The engine is looking good. I like the hold-down clamps in the first photo.

Regards,

Chuck


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## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> I like the hold-down clamps in the first photo.



I recycled the clamps from the micro V8. Just machined the other end to work on this one.


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## zeeprogrammer

Amazing.
Looking really cool.


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## Metal Mickey

Going really well Steve, nice work as always :bow:


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## Artie

Steve, you have an issue to answer mate..... there is no way my skills are ready for this style of project... yet I WANT ONE....... so... I have to wait and bide my time.... you are to blame for this... in fact I was able to control my urges until you posted the pic of the block with the heads held in place with drill bits...... gorgeous.... 

Now im done... Ill probably make a mock up that looks ok until I develop the skills that allow me to complete such an engine....

Hell I have along list of 'to do' projects as it is.. Id better stop reading this forum.... yet how can I learn to do the job?....

Mate looks bloody beautiful.... really does... cheers, Im watching you... (here goes another song...)..watching everything you do...and I just cant help but feeling that someone.......................................

Artie...   

P.s. Ive saved a pic of the engine to my desktop..to remind me what a (talented) mongrel you are......  ;D


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## CherokeeJ

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Better yet you could buy some metal and make one just like it.



It's the scale that's got me. I spent thirty years building and machining engines very much like this. From Mopar 440's to Cummins 855's. The big difference was when I was done, they weighed in at 500+ pounds. Not grams. Excellent work. Looking forward to seeing and hearing it run. I don't suppose you've got a little mini-dyno for a run-in... :big:


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## kustomkb

Great progress Steve.

It is looking pretty sweet, and small too


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## Bob Farr

CherokeeJ  said:
			
		

> *** I don't suppose you've got a little mini-dyno for a run-in... :big:



Yea, go ahead, I dare you Steve! Cut it you sissy!  ;D

Bob


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## stevehuckss396

Artie  said:
			
		

> there is no way my skills are ready for this style of project... yet I WANT ONE.......
> Ill probably make a mock up that looks ok until I develop the skills that allow me to complete such an engine....
> yet how can I learn to do the job?....



Thanks Artie!! Don't assume you don't have the skills until you have tried a few times. I didn't know I could do it until I built the Peewee V4. I just jumped in with both feet. Don't sell yourself short. In my case I didn't have the tools. Every time I turn around I need something else. I always buy good quality cutters and bits. The rest seems to go well, but not always.

Just realized that my heads are no good. The water passage is wrong and will leak. I changed it on the drawings so the next guy is all set. I think with some epoxy, i can save the day.

Cheers!!


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## stevehuckss396

CherokeeJ  said:
			
		

> It's the scale that's got me. I don't suppose you've got a little mini-dyno for a run-in... :big:



No I don't but there was a guy at NAMES in 2009 that had a complete dyno cell for mini engines. It was in a box about 3 foot wide and 2 feet high. It was awesome. Wonder if he would let me borrow it.


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## stevehuckss396

Bob Farr  said:
			
		

> Cut it you sissy!



Thanks Bob and everybody!!

Sometimes when i set up a cut in the mill, I still think of that day. I was going to make up a sign and hang it on the wall. "CUT IT YOU SISSY". That still cracks me up!!


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## Bob Farr

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> *** I still think of that day. I was going to make up a sign and hang it on the wall. "CUT IT YOU SISSY". That still cracks me up!!



Yea, me too, but after shaving a wisker too much off my crank I wanted to hang a similar sign around my neck: "the #@%&* who cut it!" 

Your V8 is looking great!


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## stevehuckss396

Bob Farr  said:
			
		

> Yea, me too, but after shaving a wisker too much off my crank I wanted to hang a similar sign around my neck: "the #@%&* who cut it!"



I'm sure if you ask around, everybody has a box full of boo boo's. Just have to shake it off and get back at it and usually the second one is nicer and takes less time.


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## deere_x475guy

Holy crap!!!!..Man this is looking to good Steve...great job.
 :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## T70MkIII

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I changed it on the drawings so the next guy is all set.



Don't tease us, Steve!

This little engine looks like it will be a beauty. Hope you sort out the water passage issue easily.


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## deere_x475guy

H





			
				T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> Don't tease us, Steve!
> 
> This little engine looks like it will be a beauty. Hope you sort out the water passage issue easily.


knowing Steve he will have this sorted out easily.....)


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## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Hknowing Steve he will have this sorted out easily.....)



Already have a plan. 

I need to get over to the local metal shop and get some stock for the valve covers and intake manifold. I am also waiting on an adapter for my boring bar that i am getting ground in. I am "dead in the water" as they say.


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## stevehuckss396

The block, she is bored! 

First thing done was to take a skim cut off the face to match the block and oilpan surfaces perfectly. Then the two bores were drilled thru with a 7/16 drill bit.









Then the boring bar was used to bring the hole to size. The block is 4.936 long and the travel on my Z axis is only 5.020 so i bored in 4.800 and then raised the knee until the bar broke thru. Then I lowered the knee and raised the boring bar. It takes a bunch of time this way but it's all i have for now.







I wanted to see how well it worked so i poped it out of the clamps and forgot that I have another dozen or so holes to drill, DUH.


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## deere_x475guy

Just awesome steve!


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## stevehuckss396

Made a little progress today. Finished the front of the block. Just some drilling and used a boring bar to clean out the gear pockets.


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## PhillyVa

Steve,

This project is look'n like another winner...good job Thm:

Philly


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## stevehuckss396

Thank's Philly!!


Not much to report. I managed to match cut the rear of the block and drill the holes
to mount the bell housing adapter before the heat chased me back into the house.
It should cool down this weekend so I was hoping to get the block done and move 
on to something else.


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## gbritnell

Steve, this engine is looking great. Just make sure when you machine your cam that it's turning in the same direction as the crank. I'm sure you have this in mind but I just wanted to give you a reminder. 
George


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## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Steve, this engine is looking great. Just make sure when you machine your cam that it's turning in the same direction as the crank. I'm sure you have this in mind but I just wanted to give you a reminder.
> George



Thanks G! That is the one thing that I haven't spent alot of time on. I have the blank designed but have not layed out the lobes. I do know that it will have .070 lift and 280 duration. That is what i made for the V4 and it sounds pretty good. Maybe 300?


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## stevehuckss396

Got a bit more done on the block. I went down both sides of the block with a 5/8 ball nose to give the block it's final profile.







Then with the block upside down, finished the profile.












Then i knocked down the pointed edge in the valley to make it look a bit nicer.







I think for now the block is done. I still need to drill the hole for the distributor but i'm going to wait and drill thru the manifold and block at the same time. It just hit me how small this thing is.


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## zeeprogrammer

Looking fabulous.
That is great work.


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## stevehuckss396

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> Looking fabulous.
> That is great work.



Thank you Zee! So far so good. There is so much to do i dont what to do next.


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## LongRat

I think your ideas with the cam are good. Your video of the V4 running has to be one of the nicest sounding model engines ever. I am sure the V8 will sound brutal with the same cam parameters. Keep up the work Steve, really enjoying watching the build.


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## ozzie46

Marvelous absolutely marvelous.

 Ron


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## stevehuckss396

I made the timing cover today. The cover was cut using the CNC machine then the counterbores were made manually in the drill press. I now have to chuck it up in the lathe and bore the inside to recieve the front crank seal. I think the cover will be polished and buffed to a high gloss.


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## deere_x475guy

Keep it up Steve...it's coming along great...! :bow:


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## stevehuckss396

Rat, Ozzie, Deere Thank you!

Just finished the Gcode for the rear plate to adapt the bell housing. Hope to get on it tomorrow.


----------



## larry1

Steve, this is really a great build, wish I could think of more to say. Larry1


----------



## stevehuckss396

larry1  said:
			
		

> Steve, this is really a great build, wish I could think of more to say. Larry1



Not a problem Larry. I do the same thing sometimes. I look at a thread of some awesome build and nothing comes to mind or it seem others have already typed what you would type. 

Thanks for looking!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Completed the bell housing adapter plate today. There is a small channel in the back that needs to be milled for the coolant to transfer between cylinder banks.


----------



## kcmillin

WOW!!!

Thats some incredible stuff there Steve

Kel


----------



## ttrikalin

fantastic work great thread. 

keep up the good work!

tom


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thank you gents! The slot is finished on the back of the rear plate and the crank seals are installed in the front and rear plates. I am considering the intake manifold next. I need to make a run to the metal store.


----------



## Maryak

Wonderful work Steve :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
I know we touched on building the intake manifold awhile back so I hate to keep 'nosing in' about it but I have another idea. 
 In keeping with the aluminum aspect of the project why not make a conventional style intake out of 2 pieces of aluminum. Here's my idea. Machine the runners into the two halves of the material and then assemble it with screws from below (valley side) so that you don't see them. Upon final assembly put a very thin layer of sealer, I use a product called Yamabond from a Yamaha dealer, and then tighten everything together. The sealer is a soft set product that can be trimmed away once it rubberizes. It's also light gray in color so it won't be noticeable. The outside contours can then be sculpted into the manifold to give it it's finished look. 
 Just a thought.
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> In keeping with the aluminum aspect of the project why not make a conventional style intake out of 2 pieces of aluminum.



Hello G! You can nose in anytime.

The plan is to make a one piece unit. I have alloted myself 2 tries before coming up with something else. It is a simpleton version of a standard intake. If I fail to pull it off, I will be in need of a better idea.


----------



## Speedy

unbelievable :big:
I am speechless.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks Speedy!


It's not hard if you stop to think about it. Mill a few angles and drill ALOT of holes. My intent was to design something that someone with just a few years in the hobby could make. I am thinking about a set of step by step plans instead of a book of sheets that would overwelm a guy. I'm not saying it's not alot of work, but the level of skill wont need to be peak.


----------



## Speedy

I like how you think! 
step by step sounds GREAT! :bow:
you can test it with me.

looking forward to your next thread update with pics 8)



			
				stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Thanks Speedy!
> 
> 
> It's not hard if you stop to think about it. Mill a few angles and drill ALOT of holes. My intent was to design something that someone with just a few years in the hobby could make. I am thinking about a set of step by step plans instead of a book of sheets that would overwelm a guy. I'm not saying it's not alot of work, but the level of skill wont need to be peak.


----------



## T70MkIII

Ditto, Steve - a step by step guide for a small V8 would be truly be awesome, and will surely save me a lot of scrap metal on the way! 

I appreciate your take on books of sheets being potentially overwhelming for the less experienced, too. I have looked at a few V8 plans which, without lots of good photos or isometric drawings, make no sense to me at all as I don't have a drafting or engineering background. But I am keen to have a go at something complex if I can visualise and understand it.


----------



## ariz

I was far from the forum for a while but the progress on this engine is fantastic, really awesome :bow: 




			
				stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> My intent was to design something that someone with just a few years in the hobby could make. I am thinking about a set of step by step plans instead of a book of sheets that would overwelm a guy. I'm not saying it's not alot of work, but the level of skill wont need to be peak.



Steve, are you saying that you'll furnish the plans for this build when finished?
it would be great!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

ariz  said:
			
		

> Steve, are you saying that you'll furnish the plans for this build when finished?
> it would be great!!!



One way or another. If I can put together something that is easily understood, and the engineering is sound, then I would offer the plans for sale at a very modest price. 

If I cant get good drawings together I may just turn everything over to Rhemus and let him publish the plans. He makes VERY nice drawings. I could do a build article on the block and heads and most everything else should be straight forward.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Just a little mini update. I started the intake manifold by getting a block of aluminum to size and cutting the angles on the top edges. Tomorrow I will put the blank in the mill and start carving out the basic shapes on the top side.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Got a call from home today while at work. Starter died on the sons car. Thought I would spend the night replacing that but we set a speed record doing the repair. Had enough time left over to get the top of the intake profiled. Hope to do some more but work is going to stop that for the rest of the week.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

All I can do is shake my head. Awesome.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Ditto on what Carl said....WOW.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thank you Zee & Bob!

Thanks for looking.


----------



## kustomkb

th_confused0052

Super nice work Steve!

It's a real treat to watch this one grow.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Got to do some chip making today. Managed to get the pockets cut to expose the top of the bolt flange. It is really starting to look like the cad drawing, IMO.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Steve is sure looks like your home made cnc mill is doing a great job!!!...


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Steve is sure looks like your home made cnc mill is doing a great job!!!...




It is slow but I have time. I had a repair guy out to fix my Bridgeport. I wont tell you how it got broke because that will make me look like an idiot. That mill is also running like a new machine. Karma in the garage is good!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

That's it for the night. I think one more night and It should be completed.


----------



## ozzie46

Now it's really starting tp look like a V-8.  :bow: :bow:

  Ron


----------



## T70MkIII

It is looking stunning, Steve - I can't wait to hear her run.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks Richard & Ron

With the exception of a few rounded corners, the entire thing should be able to be made on a manual machine. There is still alot of internal work to be done. I need to decide on the gasket thickness for the heads before I can locate the mounting holes. I am wondering if I should make slots instead of holes so the head gaskets thickness can be changed without raising the manifold. I also plan to rub the edges down with a dremel tool and then sand blast to try to get a casting look. Just enough to blend some spots and break some of the sharp corners and edges.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve, When I first built my 302 I had some really nice high temp gasket paper that was about .02 thick. After several tear downs I used up the the paper that I had. I got the name off of the back and contacted the the supplier but he gave me the run around. I have since ordered some from Mcmaster-Carr. They carry sheet Teflon in different thicknesses and also some high temp papers that work fairly well.
 I didn't slot my manifold holes I just made them a little bit bigger in diameter. Even going up .01-.015 on gasket thickness doesn't change the hole relationship that much. I would get the material that you want to use (enough for several sets of gaskets) and make your hole accordingly.
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> I have since ordered some from Mcmaster-Carr. They carry sheet Teflon in different thicknesses and also some high temp papers that work fairly well.
> I didn't slot my manifold holes I just made them a little bit bigger in diameter. Even going up .01-.015 on gasket thickness doesn't change the hole relationship that much. I would get the material that you want to use (enough for several sets of gaskets) and make your hole accordingly.



I was just looking at the drawings. I think I need to raise the holes about .01 and drill about .01 larger on the hole. I have .01, .02, and .03 teflon on hand. I am going to go with the .020 and see what happens.

Sound about right?

Thanks G!!


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Beautiful work Steve. 
Very interesting.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Update on the Little Demon. I made some head gaskets today. I took the same approach as the bugatti and made a template. The template was made from 1/8 inch thick aluminum bar 2 inches wide. One drilled and tapped for four 4-40 screws and the other drilled for clearance. The pair are bolted together and machined into the shape needed for the gasket. The long slot is the area under the head that would be impossible to reach with a razor blade.






A slice of teflon sheet is loaded into the template. This piece is a leftover but a smaller piece would be better.












Use a razor blade to clean out the slot and the cylinder holes.







Then use a drill bit to clean out the holes for the head bolts and water jackets.







Remove the teflon from the fixture and install it on the block. Use the razor blade to trim the gaskets outside edges.

















And that is all. It took about 5 minutes each after the template is made.


----------



## ozzie46

Every time I check in here I seem to learn something new. Thm: Thm:

 Really great job Steve.

 Ron


----------



## stevehuckss396

ozzie46  said:
			
		

> Every time I check in here I seem to learn something new. Thm: Thm:
> Ron



That's what HMEM is all about. The guys who set this thing up have done us all a great service!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello everybody!

Finally managed some progress this week. I spent the weekend at the Detroit Maker Faire so today I almost finished the intake manifold. First thing i did was drill the mounting holes thru and then spotted the passages with an endmill about an eigth down.








Finished drilling the water passage and the fuel passages on both sides. The vise is tipped on a 5 degree angle.







Wasen't sure about this one but i used the new angle blocks to tip the part at 68 degrees. I was a little worried but it worked perfectly.







Then I drilled to intersect the fuel passages both forward and backward.








Bolted it on the block to be sure it fits. The only thing left is to drill the distributor hole and finish threading a few holes and it should be a keeper.


----------



## SAM in LA

Steve,

Nice work. I can't imagine making something so complex.

SAM


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks Sam!

It's alot easier than it looks. I do have to say, I have never drilled so many holes in my life.


----------



## gbritnell

Very, very nice work Steve. I was wondering how you were going to tie the inlet runners together. What type of gearing, helical, miter, are you going to use to drive the distributor? I bought two helical gears from Stock Drive Products. The gears were hardened so I reamed out the end of the cam and pressed the gear onto a stub shaft that had the front main cam bearing on it. Once if was pressed in place I put a pin through it. 
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> What type of gearing, helical, miter, are you going to use to drive the distributor?



Thanks G!

I am going to use 96 pitch, stainless steel miter gears. They allow small adjustment when you want to rotate the distributor one tooth. They are also machineable and will fit thru a .390 hole. All the gears will be SS gears.


----------



## kcmillin

I think your making Vic Edelbrock jealous :big: :big:

96 pitch gears. WOW. Thats got to be approaching watchmakers size. I thought the 48 were small. I cant wait too see those.

Incredible work. I am always pleasantly surprised when I open your new posts. 

I'm glad to hear you got the intake manifold mounting bolts all lined up. 

Kel


----------



## steamer

Hi Steve,

Damn that looks nice....Are you going to put that in a diorama like a car, or something?......like the air V8?

Dave


----------



## T70MkIII

It's always great to see your progress on this beautiful engine. Hopefully she will be running soon. Thanks for continuing to share your progress with us.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks guy's

kc, I was a bit nervous drilling the first one but it worked out OK. I made 3 of them just in case something bad happened along the way. But it didn't!!!


Dave, I don't think I will ever build an entire car. I saw a RC boat at the hobby shop that a pair of these things would look great in.







T70, thank you. I don't know about soon but progress has been good. I figured a year and I started in early June

Valve covers!!!!


----------



## ksouers

HUH???

I thought you were only building one, Steve. There's two of them??

Please tell me you photoshopped that...


----------



## stevehuckss396

ksouers  said:
			
		

> HUH???
> I thought you were only building one, Steve. There's two of them??
> Please tell me you photoshopped that...



Sorry, they are real.

2 blocks
2 oil pans
5 heads
3 intakes
2 rear covers
2 front covers

I have enough stuff to build 2 complete engines so far with a few spare parts. One of these is a bad one.









I'm about to start 6 valve covers. Like the heads i'm hoping for at least 4 good ones but i'll take 5.


----------



## SAM in LA

Steve,

It doesn't look like Henry Ford got anything over you. Mass production with interchangeable parts. The start of an industrial revolution. viva la Steve!

Now back to your regularly scheduled programs.

SAM


----------



## stevehuckss396

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> It doesn't look like Henry Ford got anything over you. Mass production with interchangeable parts. The start of an industrial revolution. viva la Steve!



The beauty of CNC. There is nothing here that I couln't do manually but why not make 6 in the time it would take to make one. And I built the CNC mill myself so it's not like I bought a CNC mill and bought some Gcode and then hired someone to make the parts for me.


----------



## SAM in LA

Steve,

I hope that you didn't think I was being critical. I was trying to be humorous.

If I have offended, please forgive me.

Highest regards,

SAM


----------



## Speedy

steve if you want one in a rc you need to send the 2nd running engine to me :bow: :big:

love the progress, keep it up.
your work is outstanding, love it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> I hope that you didn't think I was being critical.



ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!

My point was what a big help CNC can be in this situation. Some of the purests think it's cheating. 

It must be the way i write things. I am often taken the wrong way but I can assure you I appreciate your comments. Anybody that has met me knows I am a "glass is half full" kind of guy.


Right G!!! Help me out here!!


Sorry for the misunderstanding Sam!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Speedy  said:
			
		

> steve you need to send the 2nd running engine to me.



Speedy. I'm going to try to be as subtle as possible.


Haahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhahhhahahahhahhahahahha
hahhahahhahaHaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhahhhahahah
hahhahahahhahahhahahhahaHaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahah
hhahhhahahahhahhahahahhahahhahahhahaHaahahahhahhahahahha
hahahhahahahhhahhhahahahhahhahahahhahahhahahhahaHaahahah
hahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhahhhahahahhahhahahahhahahhahah
hahaHaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhahhhahahahhahhahah
ahhahahhahahhahaHaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhahhhah
ahahhahhahahahhahahhahahhahaHaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhah
ahahhhahhhahahahhahhahahahhahahhahahhahaHaahahahhahhahah
ahhahahahhahahahhhahhhahahahhahhahahahhahahhahahhahaHaah
ahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhahhhahahahhahhahahahhahahh
ahahhahaHaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhahhhahahahhahh
ahahahhahahhahahhahaHaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhhah
hhahahahhahhahahahhahahhahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Speedy

Steve
LOL that is exactly what was expected :big:
just to be clear that was a joking tehehe

except the part of keeping progress and photos rolling in :bow:


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> The beauty of CNC. There is nothing here that I couln't do manually but why not make 6 in the time it would take to make one. And I built the CNC mill myself so it's not like I bought a CNC mill and bought some Gcode and then hired someone to make the parts for me.



To those who think it cheating...remember, Steve built the CNC Mill...with a manual mill I bet..... :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Steve built the CNC Mill...with a manual mill I bet..



Actually I borrowed a set of tools from my friend Jeffs dad!


----------



## steamer

:big: :big: :big: :big: Rof}

You cracked me up on that one Steve....


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
 Anyone who is involved with CNC knows that it's definitely not cheating. There's much much more than bolting a piece of metal onto the mill and magically making parts. Personally I don't feel there's a huge time difference in making 'one off' with CNC. By the time everything is modeled, tools are loaded, parts are fixtured and cuts are made a simple shape can be produced almost as fast manually. It's when you get into curves and pockets, repetitive operations and multiple pieces that CNC comes into play. 
 In your case building your own adds a whole new dimension to the game. 
 Having worked in a shop with CNC equipment sometimes I'd give anything to have that access.
George


----------



## steamer

True to form...George speaks wisdom.

Your absolutely right on single parts, and when you need curves and splines ...CNC makes up for it.

Dave


----------



## SAM in LA

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!
> Sorry for the misunderstanding Sam!!



Steve,

I am the one who misunderstood, not you.

 :bow:

Great work. 

SAM


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> Anyone who is involved with CNC knows that it's definitely not cheating. There's much much more than bolting a piece of metal onto the mill and magically making parts.



AMEN!


----------



## deere_x475guy

Holly crap Steve...I haven't checked this lately...you are running wild here..))..great job.!!!!


----------



## Speedy

Steve. 
did you have a thread on your cnc mill?
-Michael.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Speedy  said:
			
		

> Steve.
> did you have a thread on your cnc mill?
> -Michael.



Here you go!

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6511.0


----------



## stevehuckss396

The valve corvers took forever but all went well. I put a piece of sawed off stock in the mill and drilled the mounting holes and did all the machine work for the bottom side. All was done CNC. All 6 of them.








The block was rotated around holes were drilled to create the counter bore for the screw heads.







The top of the valve cover was brought to size







Then the edges of the counterbore were rounded off with a itty bitty endmill.







Last the corner rounding endmill was used to finish off the top and create the top protrusion.








While I was waiting on the mill I was busy tapping everything that needed to be tapped.


----------



## stevehuckss396

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> I am the one who misunderstood, not you.



So you owe me a beer then?

If I am ever in LA I am huntin you down!!!


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Wow. Twin V-8s. Those look amazing.


----------



## T70MkIII

Only twins? Why 6 valve covers? I suspect triplets. Congratulations, Steve!

Zee's right - they do look amazing.


----------



## stevehuckss396

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> Only twins? Why 6 valve covers? I suspect triplets. Congratulations, Steve!



I started out with 3 blocks. One got damaged and now there are 2. I still make enough for 3 and hope for enough for 2. I guess I make a few extra incase something happens along the way.


----------



## SAM in LA

Steve,

You need to couple those two engines together like a V-16. I saw this at a tractor pull. Some zoomies and velocity stacks, perhaps a shot of NOS and caty bar the door, she's getting away from me.

 :hDe: :idea: :hDe:

SAM


----------



## deere_x475guy

Real fine work Steve...they look great!


----------



## stevehuckss396

SAM in LA  said:
			
		

> You need to couple those two engines together like a V-16. I saw this at a tractor pull. Some zoomies and velocity stacks, perhaps a shot of NOS and caty bar the door, she's getting away from me.



I'm picturing parts scattered all over the place and a small oil fire.

I thought about it but I dont have the tools to bore the cam tunnel and the crank shaft tunnel.


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Real fine work Steve...they look great!



Thanks Deere. How goes it with the anodize?


----------



## ozzie46

Steve, I'm really enjoying this. It looks great. 

  Ron


----------



## deere_x475guy

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Thanks Deere. How goes it with the anodize?



It's actually going very well. I just posted an update in the breakroom under the old thread. I think I have my black and scarlete problems cured and thanks for asking.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello all!

Managed some garage time today. Worked on the bell housing.

Started by machining the OD of the housing and establishing the back of the flange. Then I machined a small boss on the rear so there would be something to hold onto the part when it gets rotated.






I learned this one from watching the members on the HMEM site. I machined steps every .025 to the proper depth to form a .500 radius.






Then with a file and some sand paper, the steps were blended together to form the curve.






The part was then rotated and the flange was brought to size.






The inside was drilled thru and the two bores were made.






The insite corner was knocked down on a 45 degree angle to complete the inside shape.






A small step was them made to give the proper size to fit the boss on the rear plate.






Again the part was rotated and the holding boss was removed and cleaned up a little.







I still need to drill the hole pattern to mount the piece but that should be a quick deal!


----------



## Speedy

O MY GAWD they looks amazing!
must be something else to see in person!!!!!!


----------



## rake60

That can't really be called machining Steve.

That is brute _*CRAFTSMANSHIP!*_ :bow: :bow: :bow:

Rick


----------



## stevehuckss396

rake60  said:
			
		

> That can't really be called machining Steve.
> That is brute _*CRAFTSMANSHIP!*_ :bow: :bow: :bow:



To be honest, It's a product of hanging out around here. I use alot of the things I see around here and some of them even work. I don't think i would have the guts to try something like this without the support of the HMEM and NAMES people. It's nice to know if I get myself into a jam, I have a little it of help.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

That is awesome.
And it tells me I can do something I've been thinking about myself (albeit not as good).


----------



## steamer

Awesome build Steve!...What is truly amazing is how easy you make it look!.....

Can't wait for the...."WOOOOOOPA!"....sound!

Dave


----------



## ariz

steamer  said:
			
		

> Awesome build Steve!...What is truly amazing is how easy you make it look!.....
> 
> Dave



Steve is still a surprise for me 
this fellow is in this hobby from a couple of years or so, but many of us can not even aspire to his skills in 10 years :big:

BTW, great work on those engines :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

ariz  said:
			
		

> Steve is still a surprise for me
> this fellow is in this hobby from a couple of years or so, but many of us can not even aspire to his skills in 10 years :big:



Wow!! That is very kind of you to say. 

I cut my first piece of metal a bit over 4 years ago.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well that finishes the bell housings. Sorry the pics are very dark but i'm trying to learn a new camera. 
I was going to make a few cylinder liners but it is just to hot. Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## ozzie46

Steve, Words fail me!!!!! th_confused0052 th_confused0052 th_confused0052 th_confused0052 th_confused0052


  Ron


----------



## T70MkIII

Steve, I reached into my jar of superlatives but it is already empty. The twins look spectacular, and I can't wait to hear them running. It looks like they're pretty close bar fuel and ignition, and I'm looking forward to seeing how you tackle those (saw your drum carby drawing). 

I picked up some 6061 just the other day and am thinking V8ish thoughts...


----------



## stevehuckss396

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> Steve, I reached into my jar of superlatives but it is already empty. The twins look spectacular, and I can't wait to hear them running. It looks like they're pretty close bar fuel and ignition, and I'm looking forward to seeing how you tackle those (saw your drum carby drawing).
> I picked up some 6061 just the other day and am thinking V8ish thoughts...



I don't know how to break this to you but the blocks are empty. I just started this project early June. I still need to make everything. I was going to make cylinder liners today but it was too hot. I figure about 10 months to go.

The good news is, this thread will be around for quite a while.

Sorry!! ;D


----------



## T70MkIII

Sorry Steve ... I caught the bit about liners, but must must have missed that little bit about empty blocks! I guess I was thinking about some of your earlier builds, camshaft threads and the like, and getting ahead of myself. I'm happy to watch this thread for as long as it takes. Awesome work.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!


Had the chance to make some cylinder liners today. Having so many to make, I decided to predrill the centers so it won't have to be done on the lathe.









I make my liners with 3 diameters to make the liners easier to press in. The problem with that is, it makes it easier to screw up and have to scrap a piece with one more diameter to have to hit.








I turn the liner ID to .015 - .020 smaller than finished size. I like to press them in the block and binish the bore installed.








I part the liners off long so the deck of the block can be milled to match the liners. Then the part is rotated and a skim cut is taken to smooth the surface for pressing.








With the 3 step liner and the bore to match, the liner drops in more than half way making it easier to push in. I use a Q-tip to paint on some green loc-tite and send them home.







One down, one to go.


----------



## kuhncw

The engines are looking good, Steve.

How much interference fit are you using on your liners? Are you warming the block up any before pressing the liners in?

Also, I think you mentioned oil seals for the crank back some time ago. Where are you finding seals this small?

Thanks.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> How much interference fit are you using on your liners? Are you warming the block up any before pressing the liners in?
> Also, I think you mentioned oil seals for the crank back some time ago. Where are you finding seals this small?



I make the liners .0005 - .001 larger than the bore, use green loc-tite, and ram er home with no heat. The green is very thin, almost water like and creeps into very tight spaces.

WM Berg has all the hard to find small stuff.


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Steve, I have to thank you for posting the WM Berg link. They have some great stuff and appear to have better selection than SPI.

The engines looks great. I've been following the build from the beginning, it's always great to see the parts you uncover inside the raw stock.

Greg


----------



## deere_x475guy

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I make the liners .0005 - .001 larger than the bore, use green loc-tite, and ram er home with no heat. The green is very thin, almost water like and creeps into very tight spaces.
> 
> WM Berg has all the hard to find small stuff.


Steve I am amazed everytime I check your progress. I made the mistake of showing swmbo your engines....

You probably all ready know this but a shrink fit has 3 plus times the amount of resistance that a press fit has and is easy to do. Then again you are using loctite......


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> You probably all ready know this but a shrink fit has 3 plus times the amount of resistance that a press fit has and is easy to do. Then again you are using loctite......



A shrink fit is really not needed. The head will hold the sleeve in. Just need to make them water tight.


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> Steve, I have to thank you for posting the WM Berg link. They have some great stuff and appear to have better selection than SPI.



Hi Greg. Berg does have alot of stuff that others do not. There prices are higher than SDP so i purchased the distributor gears from Berg and all the other gears from SDP (Stock Drive Products)


----------



## stevehuckss396

Made 4 more liners today. 12 down, 4 to go!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Found some garage time so i sprang into action. Setup the block and indicated it in.







Took a cut across the deck surface to get the liners down to the deck height.







Then I ran a boring bar thru the cylinders to bring the holes to size. and called that done.







Then I made the 32 lifter bushings for both blocks.






Tomorrow the other block will get finished.


----------



## Jones

What a fantastic project. I'm eagerly awaiting each new installment, and learning lots just by seeing how you've made each part.

Keep it up!

Andrew


----------



## stevehuckss396

Jones  said:
			
		

> What a fantastic project. I'm eagerly awaiting each new installment, and learning lots just by seeing how you've made each part.
> 
> Keep it up!
> 
> Andrew



Trying to keep it going but work keeps getting in the way. Hoping to finish the 2nd block tonight.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Victory!

Both blocks are completed! Not sure where i'm going to go from here. I have to work 12 hour days for the next week so I will have lot's of time to figure it out!!!!!


----------



## zeeprogrammer

I can't say more than "Wow".
Those are beautiful!


----------



## kustomkb

th_confused0052 Stunning work Steve. They look fantastic!


----------



## vedoula

th_confused0052 th_confused0052 th_confused0052

you are a master, Sir. 

tom


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks guy's!!


----------



## ttrikalin

Good grief, I'll stop machining I think, I'll never be able to do that... 

Bravo, Steve...


----------



## kcmillin

The twins look Great Steve!!!

Excellent job. 

When you milled down the tops of the cylinder liners did you take any material off the top of the head?

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> The twins look Great Steve!!!
> 
> Excellent job.
> 
> When you milled down the tops of the cylinder liners did you take any material off the top of the head?
> 
> Kel



Just enough to make new machine marks. .001 - .002 at the most.


----------



## SAM in LA

Steve,

Very impressive.

I look forward to reading your posts and seeing the progress that you have made.

Regards,

SAM


----------



## Artie

Steve, thats just amazing mate, absolutely gorgeous. Even if you went no further those would look brilliant on any desk or study as they are. Simply stunning.

Loving it. Please keep on it.

Cheers Rob T


----------



## stevehuckss396

I had to order metal so i decided to work on the cam. I did some math and created the cutting table. Then just to be sure I drew the cam in Alibre and mated it with the block. I started to rotate the cam in the block and watch the lobes to see if I had the orientation correct. Something was all screwed up and nothing was working out. I went back over the table and all looked good. I checked the 3D model and that looked OK. Took about 30 minutes to realize that I had the cam mated to the block backward.

What a butt head!!

All is well now and I can get to work on the fixture.

Thanks Everyone!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Made some progress on the crankshaft today. This piece is going to be a very tough piece to make. It is very fragile.


9 inch long piece of 1 X 1 inch 1018 CRS. The centers are drilled into both ends.








The OD is turned down. Then i marked with a grooving tool where all the crank webs will be. Everything except the spots where the marker is will be cut away in some form.







Then I moved off center for the first crank arm. This took forever. Have to cut real slow and not hurry or bad things can happen.






Thats all for now!!


----------



## SAM in LA

Steve,

It looks to me that you need some sort of follower to support the back side of you cuts so the crank does not twist up like a piece of spaghetti. Perhaps a spring loaded follower? I'm just guessing and have no experience to put behind my idea.

Good luck,

SAM


----------



## Lakc

Looks like a good start, brings back memories.  I was going to start on a crankshaft today, my first time playing with 4140, and now that I remember all this I am wondering if I shouldnt just walk the dogs instead.  It does require a whole lot of patience.


----------



## don-tucker

That looks very dodgy indeed Steve,I think i would have been inclined to rough them all out first leaving about 1/8" plus,just thinking out loud.There again looking at the work you have done so far you know exatly what you are doing

Don


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
 Boy, I really hate to throw a wrench in your plans but why 1018? In my experiences with CRS, every time I take a cut it bends one way or another. I only use 1144 any more. It machines nicer than 1018 and there is no internal stresses thus the name 'stressproof'. 

 Another thing you might want to consider is doing your machining process like I did for my Holt crank. It can be found here:
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5673.0
I found that by not relieving all of the throws at one time the material was much more rigid. On top of this you don't have to spend as much time on the lathe going, kachunk, kachunk, kachunk and hoping something doesn't catch and bend.

George


----------



## stevehuckss396

don-tucker  said:
			
		

> That looks very dodgy indeed Steve,I think i would have been inclined to rough them all out first leaving about 1/8" plus,just thinking out loud.There again looking at the work you have done so far you know exatly what you are doing
> 
> Don



If you rough them all out the crank will fold up like a book. I like to cut the first arm and then put a filler piece in the finished slot made to the .0005 thou. Then go to the next arm and then fill that one and so on. Looks bad, but works great.


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> why 1018?
> 
> Another thing you might want to consider is doing your machining process like I did



I had an old timer in my metal club tell me that the stress is in the skin. Once all the skin is gone the stress should be relieved. That is why I cut the OD of the crank first. I'll have to look into this 1144.

I do mine much the same as you only I cant pre-machine much on a 90 degree crank. I have to cut an arm 100%, then fill it with a piece of filler and then pre-machine the second one on the mill and then finish that one 100% and fill it, ect!

Also I wanted to finish all the arms and then do all the center bosses in one shot.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I just scrapped the crankshaft!

Hey G! I have to start over anyway. Where can I find a 1 inch square bar of the magical 1144?


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Well I just scrapped the crankshaft!
> 
> Hey G! I have to start over anyway. Where can I find a 1 inch square bar of the magical 1144?


Mcmaster has it, but it looks like its only available in round.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Jeff is right. It only comes as round but for a V-8 crank that's what I would work with anyway. Here's a link to the best price I could find for 1.25 dia.x 1 foot.
http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-1590-8239-1-14-rd-stressproof-or-equivalent-cold-finished.aspx
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> Jeff is right. It only comes as round but for a V-8 crank that's what I would work with anyway. Here's a link to the best price I could find for 1.25 dia.x 1 foot.
> http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-1590-8239-1-14-rd-stressproof-or-equivalent-cold-finished.aspx
> George



13 bucks for a 3 foot bar and 13 bucks to ship? OUCH!!


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> 13 bucks for a 3 foot bar and 13 bucks to ship? OUCH!!



Ouch is right. Now is the time to get any more material you may need. They combine shipping on multiple orders. This will offset the cost of the shipping.

Kel


----------



## Lakc

I show $21 for a 3 foot length, after all the money I spent with them too 

Metal supermarkets in Livonia doesnt carry it, which is too bad, as its right near my house. Metalmart in Sterling Heights? might be worth a call on Tuesday, as would Meco metals on Coolidge in Oak Park. Factory steel, which is open on Sundays, doesnt seem to carry it. 

I would not recommend the 4140 route. While a fresh endmill left a beautiful finish, my lathe is not having much luck. Now I see why they offer it in leaded, dont know why I didnt buy that in the first place.


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> Jeff is right. It only comes as round but for a V-8 crank that's what I would work with anyway. Here's a link to the best price I could find for 1.25 dia.x 1 foot.
> http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-1590-8239-1-14-rd-stressproof-or-equivalent-cold-finished.aspx
> George



Did a search for metal suppliers in my area. Speedy metals is 5 miles from my house. I also have Metal Mart, Metal Express, and Industrial Metal all within 8 miles.

Phone calls will be flying tomorrow.


----------



## putputman

Steve, I think once you try 1144 you will really like it. It machines a little like cast iron. It is especially nice when using a parting tool as the swarf comes off in small chips rather than long cures.

The only negative I have heard about it is that it does not weld very well. Not a problem for model builders.


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> . Speedy metals is 5 miles from my house. I also have Metal Mart, Metal Express, and Industrial Metal all within 8 miles.



Wow, you live in a metal wonderland.

When I go the the steelyard they look at me funny when I ask, What type of steel is this? It's like they only know steel or stainless steel, I ask for leaded steel and they say what is leaded steel. Forget about brass or anything "Exotic" like bronze, but the do have a limited selection of aluminum. Horay!

Lucky, Lucky you.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

putputman  said:
			
		

> Steve, I think once you try 1144 you will really like it. It machines a little like cast iron. It is especially nice when using a parting tool as the swarf comes off in small chips rather than long cures.
> 
> The only negative I have heard about it is that it does not weld very well. Not a problem for model builders.



I have decided to put the crank on hold. There is a model engine show coming up and i think talking to some of the builders will give better methods. I think the one i was working on might have been ok but after seeing G's fixturing, i might try to come up with something along those lines.

I think I might move forward with the valve cages and valves. Or something! 

ONWARD!!


----------



## krv3000

HI I can not Waite to see them all finished brill work   
from bob


----------



## Lakc

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Wow, you live in a metal wonderland.
> 
> When I go the the steelyard they look at me funny when I ask, What type of steel is this? It's like they only know steel or stainless steel, I ask for leaded steel and they say what is leaded steel. Forget about brass or anything "Exotic" like bronze, but the do have a limited selection of aluminum. Horay!
> 
> Lucky, Lucky you.
> 
> Kel



Since the economy has tanked so bad here in Detroit, I am not sure how many will be left in a short while. :'(


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Since the economy has tanked so bad here in Detroit, I am not sure how many will be left in a short while. :'(



I just need one!! I am so sick of paying more for shipping than the material.


----------



## dsquire

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I just need one!! I am so sick of paying more for shipping than the material.



Steve

I couldn't agree with you more. It used to be you looked at the cost of the item and didn't worry about the shipping. Now you look at the cost of shipping more than the cost of the item. 

As bad as that all is, imagine if you had to ship that 3 foot bar to Australia or even Canada for that matter. You would have to take out a 2nd mortgage.

You're doing a fine job on these engines. I'm not commenting much but I am watching.

Cheers 

Don


----------



## stevehuckss396

dsquire  said:
			
		

> I couldn't agree with you more. It used to be you looked at the cost of the item and didn't worry about the shipping.
> 
> I'm not commenting much but I am watching.




Thank you Don! 


I think I may change things up a bit and consider a built up crankshaft. The idea behind this project was to come out of it with something alot of people wouldn't be afraid to build. I have designed a 4 piece crankshaft that might make things easier for everybody. With a 4 piece crank it will be possible for someone with lesser skill to still pull it off (including myself). The pieces will be indexable as a square hole will be milled into the pieces. If a mistake is made, only 25% of the shaft will have to be scrapped. The bad part is the pieces will need to be assembled, indicated in, and pinned together. I think the best thing to do would be to include the drawings for both and let the builder decide.


----------



## Artie

Like Don, im not saying much but this is the thread to watch when I log on, the rest are wonderful, this is inspirational....

My thoughts (as one who is doing a crank right now for the first time), for what they are worth, which is not much....

A v8 crank can have the same number of journals as a four cylinder crank Right? But where it differs is that four cyl crank can work on only 2 planes (can be cut from flat bar) where as a v8 needs to be on 4 planes and requires indexing during maching which can simply take this beyond the abilities of your average aspiring home machinist, or make it seem so, which is really the same thing.

Covering both build styles make very good sense to me and if I where to attempt this I would go built up crank (as I have in my current build) for exactly the reasons you mention...

In fact thinking about it further.. take a round piece of stock, drill a centre hole and then an off centre hole and then part off segments, use bar for journals and assemble...sounds easy right? :

Doing great man, I just want a cyl block to sit on my desk ...... 8)

Rob T


----------



## stevehuckss396

I just did it again. Stuck my foot in my mouth while trying to help and make things easier. I seem to have everybody upset over the project of the month.

I just want to apologise to everybody. This was not my intention and I could not feel worse. 

Sorry!

Steve


----------



## dreeves

Steve you had a great idea.No Need to apologise. This site if founded on giving your Ideas and also Questions.

Dave


----------



## mu38&Bg#

I thought most American V8's had single plane cranks up until the last decade or so? Of course, that doesn't quite sound like a dual plane crank.


----------



## Artie

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> I thought most American V8's had single plane cranks up until the last decade or so? Of course, that doesn't quite sound like a dual plane crank.



Small block chevy crank (350).


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
 I started out making steam engines, most notably Stuart engines. These came with a forged blank for the crank. I also purchased a book on how to machine the Stuart engines which explained how to machine the crank. I have done single and double throw Stuart cranks. 

 With this in mind when I started building hit & miss engines I made one piece cranks. Usually they were made from CRS. The all warped to some degree but usually with small repetitive cuts I could get them trued up. One particular crank just wouldn't cooperate so I made a segmented crank. I made the two cheeks and drilled and reamed them at the same time so the center distances would be identical. I then slid the drill rod pieces through the holes (.0005-.001 clearance) enough gap to get the silver solder to fill in. After it was soldered I cut out the center bar, mounted the crank between centers and indicated it. It was close and saveable but not perfect out of the box.

 When I made the crank for my V-8 I was initially daunted by the idea of having to turn the offset throws so I went for a built up crank. Because of the configuration I made the mains with their corresponding web pieces out of one piece of stock. When I got them turned I made up a jig so that all the throw holes would be identical. I then made up shouldered crank pins and started assembling the crank. I then made up a fixture to mount the crank into for soldering. It resembled the bottom of the block with clamps to hold the mains in place. I also used this fixture to true up the crank as I was assembling it. I would rotate the crank and indicate it, pull it out twist and tweak, put it back in and re-indicate. After much time of adjusting, twisting and indicating I got it to where I thought it should be, clamped it down and silver soldered it. When I unbolted it and re-indicated it it was close, farthest dimension was .004 as I recall. Having spent hours and hours of making the parts, assembling, indicating, adjusting and what-have-you I was bent on making this thing work so I started tweaking and bending it between centers countless times to get it true. I believe I ended up with .0015 overall. 

 At the time I only had my small lathe, 6 incher, so this was pretty much my only option. After that I got a 9 inch South Bend and remade the crank as a one piece unit. When I turned it I left a little bit of stock on the mains and throws, .002, and I made up a toolpost grinder to finish them off. That crank finished up at around .0005 overall. 

 So to get to the point of my story, I realize that everyone has different skill levels and equipment options but if I had my druthers I would make a one piece crank every time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a multi-piece crank can't work it's just that the amount of time that goes into it can far exceed the time it takes to make a solid crank. 

George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> and remade the crank as a one piece unit. When I turned it I left a little bit of stock on the mains and throws, .002, and I made up a toolpost grinder to finish them off. That crank finished up at around .0005 overall.
> 
> So to get to the point of my story, I realize that everyone has different skill levels and equipment options but if I had my druthers I would make a one piece crank every time.



I have to agree that a one piece crankshaft is best but i'm not sure I have the skills to pull it off. I think the extra time spent will give me the best chance for a useable piece. I haven't been doing this long and still struggle with some things.


----------



## cfellows

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I just need one!! I am so sick of paying more for shipping than the material.



I have learned to "batch" my orders. By adding 1 or 2 items to the cart at a time, you can see the shipping price jump when you cross a threshold. So I maximize the number of pieces I can get for a given shipping cost.

Chuck


----------



## steamer

Hi Steve,

I will vouch for 1144 too. Once you use it and machine it you won't want 1018 in your shop anymore.....I try to use it everywhere I can.

Stable, machines well and has great properties.

Metal Express is a good source....can't help with the shipping costs though....

by all accounts thus far that I have read, roughing out the crank on the mill is the way to go ( Duclos, Colonna, Britnell)

Do what makes you happy my friend...I'll be watching regardless... 

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello all!

Had the chance to start on a 4 piece crankshaft. The plan is to make 4 pieces that lock together with a square end and socket. The square will allow me to index the crank arms in 90 degree increments. The design will also allow all the main bearings to be ball bearings.

The 2 center sections and the rear section all have one of the ends the same. So i spent the day turning the same end on 9 pieces. I made enough pieces for 3 shafts hoping for enough to make 2 when I'm done. The tip of this end will be milled square.








The front piece is different so I turned the front shaft. All 3 have a real tight slip fit. I'm real happy with the fit of the bearing.







Then the front pieces were rotated around and chucked into a collet. The rear of the piece was then finished. The rear of this piece will have a square milled into it to accept the piece behind it.








This should all become a little clearer as the pieces progress.


----------



## T70MkIII

Looking forward to seeing how the crank comes together, Steve. 

While a 1 piece V8 crankshaft would be a machining holy grail for me, at this stage I would prefer to spend 3 times longer doing a 4 piece than scrapping a 1 piece 3 or more (er, many more) times.

I might try a stand-alone 1 piece out of aluminium just to help visualise the process, but will want to DRO my lathe first.


----------



## stevehuckss396

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> I would prefer to spend 3 times longer doing a 4 piece than scrapping a 1 piece 3 or more (er, many more) times.



I'm going to try both ways. I think the 4 piece will be easier but take longer because I will need to fixture some things/steps. With this 1144SP metal, the one piece seems more within my reach.


----------



## T70MkIII

1144SP sounds great. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any listed in Australia (at least on Google) or reference to a local moniker for the same material. I'll make some phonecalls during business hours to see if I can track some down.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Made a bit more progress today. Chucked up the rear pieces and started to finish them up. I used my "bat wings" (brass inserts) on the jaws so i wouldn't damage the finish. Indicated to less than .001








I turned the shaft down to about .010 over size and then got the tail shaft ready for threads.







Ran the threads on.







Finished the shaft to .0005 - .001 oversize and then i like to bring the shaft to size using some 320 sand paper. This way I can work the taper out if there is any and i can usually hit my number within a few tenths.







Then I put the taper on last.







Thats about all until I get my hands on a 5/16 collet.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Nice work Steve! I did landscaping all weekend....will it ever end..


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Nice work Steve! I did landscaping all weekend....will it ever end..



Coming off the holiday i expected a 32 hour, 4 day check. Turned into 53 hour, 4 day week. Landscaping would kill me right now.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Well the tractor and loader did most of the work and I got up at 6 this morning so I could have a couple of hours in the shop. Trying to get the Siamese twin finished.


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Well the tractor and loader did most of the work and I got up at 6 this morning so I could have a couple of hours in the shop. Trying to get the Siamese twin finished.



Just be careful you don't smash yourself up again. Don't need more surgery.

Screw the twin, want me to send over some V8 plans? Hahhahah!!

How goes the coating and anodizing? Last I saw you were getting some real nice parts.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Yea, I am still getting on an average 2 rhizotomys a year. Its been 4 months since the last one and I am still doing well.

I am now using a 20 amp 24 volt power supply I picked up cheap on Craig's list and I bought a PWM to control the out put. It works great and I bet it would work well with just a computer power supply. I didn't post anything about it yet. I wanted to give it a work out first. I will probably update the thread later this week.

I would love to see the plans.... :bow:


----------



## Lakc

Looks great Steve, but am I missing some type of follower or steady rest for the crank end pieces? With that much overhang, your either compensating ,or fighting, a bunch of deflection I would think.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Looks great Steve, but am I missing some type of follower or steady rest for the crank end pieces? With that much overhang, your either compensating ,or fighting, a bunch of deflection I would think.



That's why I finish with sand paper. I was getting about 4 - 6 tenths taper so I just polished the taper out with paper. Takes only a minute or 2 and I can typically get a short shaft like that to within 2 tenths all the way across.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> That's why I finish with sand paper. I was getting about 4 - 6 tenths taper so I just polished the taper out with paper. Takes only a minute or 2 and I can typically get a short shaft like that to within 2 tenths all the way across.


Sounds like you won that fight then. ;D


----------



## rcfreak177

Hi Steve, this method of manufacturing the crankshaft I have never seen before. It is of great interest to me. I tried to offset turn my crank on the same type of lathe that you have pictured and basically had to run for cover due to the chatter produced. I had to bite the bullet and purchase a larger machine for the rigidity. I am excited to see how you'r method works and may adapt the same technique. some time ago there was a post on here by Bogstandard relating to the performance of these smaller machines which I was at first skeptical but now totally agree. have you made any modifications to you'r lathe to enhance the performance, particularity parting off on diameter above 
1 1/4"?. I have found brass ali and cast iron are fine, it is mainly 4140 and 4340 steel to be difficult. ??? ??? ??? Very nice work by the way, I enjoy watching this post.

Regards Barry.


----------



## kustomkb

Looking good Steve,

I really enjoy following along.


----------



## LongRat

Following this great building with increasing interest Steve! I like the way you are trying the 2 crankshaft methods. I am very keen to hear how the 2 types come out, as the one-piece crankshaft has always been the part that seems the hardest in an engine like this. Particularly the fact that it will enable the use of ball bearings in the mains, I really hope the built-up crank works. I could definitely see myself going for a set of your plans. Keep up the excellent engineering and experimentation!


----------



## stevehuckss396

rcfreak177  said:
			
		

> have you made any modifications to you'r lathe to enhance the performance, particularity parting off on diameter above
> 1 1/4"?. I have found brass ali and cast iron are fine, it is mainly 4140 and 4340 steel to be difficult. ??? ??? ??? Very nice work by the way, I enjoy watching this post.



Hi Berry

The lathe is as "out of the box" except for the QC tool post. and a DRO.
I try not to have to part off large stock. If i tried to part off 4340 it would probibly tip over.


----------



## stevehuckss396

LongRat  said:
			
		

> Following this great building with increasing interest Steve! I like the way you are trying the 2 crankshaft methods. I am very keen to hear how the 2 types come out, as the one-piece crankshaft has always been the part that seems the hardest in an engine like this. Particularly the fact that it will enable the use of ball bearings in the mains, I really hope the built-up crank works. I could definitely see myself going for a set of your plans. Keep up the excellent engineering and experimentation!



Thank you LongRat. We will keep on trucking.


----------



## Joachim Steinke

Hi Steve

I am deeply interested in your version of building a multiple piece crankshaft too.

Just being in the end of the design phase for my next 2 cylinder IC engine I have to decide about my crankshaft layout soon.

And as I have to do all the turning jobs on this little living room toy lathe here (.ha ha ha.)








chatter and minor rigidity while extreme offset turning is always a serious problem to me too.

By the way, I have made very positive experience with ETG100 for all engine parts with higher strength demands, made the last crankshaft from this special steel too. But I dont know if the name ETG is common for this kind of material in England and the USA?

If you are interested please have a look at this link, its written in English:

http://www.vanleeuwenbuizen.com/media/44357/73100-180808.pdf

ETG is a sort of free cutting steel, but it is twice as strong (tensile strength 1100 N/mm2) as the normal free cutting grades. In addition it is stress relieved, so complex parts dont tend to get distortions so fast. And its most suitable for hardening with a propane flame, I made some special ore unusual milling tools from ETG over the last years and they all work fine. 

Steve, Im looking forward your ongoing report.

Achim


----------



## stevehuckss396

Finally made some progress with the crankshaft. Over the last day or two I managed to make the fixture to hold the pieces for turning. It's an ugly bugger but I did make a test piece and it works very well.


The first thing I did was to mill the square ends on the pieces that require them.












The pieces are then put into the fixture and the turning begins.












One down and eleven to go!!!






Cheers!


----------



## cfellows

If you pull this off, Steve, you are a much better machinist than I will ever be! Of course, maybe you already knew that!  :big: :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> If you pull this off, Steve, you are a much better machinist than I will ever be! Of course, maybe you already knew that! :big: :bow:



Yeah right!! I have seen some of your work. If I pull this off you should have no problem doing one.

Just for the heck of it. What part of this do you think you can't do. I'm only asking because I was hoping to make this easy enough where people with less than "master machinest" skill level could make a V8. I admit that the 4 pieces is more work but I would hope the pieces are easier than making a one piece. 

I ask this question to everyone who looks at this thread and not just Mr. Fellows.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Here's my 2 cents worth. I would say that making a multi piece crank like you're making would be easier for an average builder than making a one piece crank. That being said, the problem I see is holding the accuracy of the locator hole so that when the crank is assembled it will be concentric throughout. If the squares and pockets aren't within very close limits the crank won't be accurate and I don't know how much rigidity it will have. 
It's good that you're trying this out because it will prove out the feasibility of this type of construction. If you have good results with it (and I hope you do) then it might tempt others to build a multi cylinder engine of their own. 
Hopefully you'll have a couple of the cranks built in time for the Zanesville show. I would like to see one of them.
George


----------



## cfellows

Steve, George has voiced the concerns that I would have. I, personally, have a hard time getting close fits with round stock going into holes, let alone square pegs going into square holes. 

However, since each joint will be supported by a ball race, if you get a reasonably close fit between the square peg and square hole, rigidity shouldn't be an issue. By the way, how are you going to make the square holes? Doesn't look like you have enough room between the webs to use a broach... they're kind of long.

Chuck


----------



## Peter.

That is some very nice work Steve!

cfellows: If I were to attempt a built-up crank I'd probably machine the pegs & holes with some small clearance then machine a jig of main journals from a substantial solid to hold all the pieces concentric then silver solder the assembly in one.


----------



## Lakc

Peter.  said:
			
		

> That is some very nice work Steve!
> 
> cfellows: If I were to attempt a built-up crank I'd probably machine the pegs & holes with some small clearance then machine a jig of main journals from a substantial solid to hold all the pieces concentric then silver solder the assembly in one.



Thats how I tried the only multi-piece crank I attempted. It was an utter failure in the silver soldering aspect, but I will take the blame for that over the method itself. It did have the benefit of no offset turning at all, as the pins just fit into the throws which were conventionally turned. 

From an engineering aspect, I worry about eventual fretting and fatigue at the joined sections. I recall a German avaition engine that used sectional crankshafts, it was joined with an inner pipe type section with left/right hand threads, and a Hirth joint to absorb the torsional stresses. I am looking forward to see how this pans out, quite a worthy effort!


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> By the way, how are you going to make the square holes? Doesn't look like you have enough room between the webs to use a broach... they're kind of long.




Im going to mill the squares with a 1/16 endmill. I did the same thing on the Bugatti crank and the square pegs went good. It was the disk that recieved the arm that stunk. This design has 1/2 the pieces that the bugatti had. Now some 4 years later my skills have improved (somewhat) and I hope this one will be alot better.


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> the problem I see is holding the accuracy of the locator hole so that when the crank is assembled it will be concentric throughout. If the squares and pockets aren't within very close limits the crank won't be accurate and I don't know how much rigidity it will have.



If you notice the center is drilled. I did that to use as a center finder when milling the square. I found center and then used the DRO to move around the part in a square. Should be darn close. The same will happen for the square pockets. The vise and V block are of above average quality so i believe it held the part as "straight up" as I'll ever get it. Keeping the fingers crossed.

I think I am still going to try a one piece with this 1144 bar. I like this stuff!!


----------



## deere_x475guy

Like I have said before my friend...you never cease to amaze me....very nice!!!!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## cfellows

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Im going to mill the squares with a 1/16 endmill. I did the same thing on the Bugatti crank and the square pegs went good. It was the disk that recieved the arm that stunk. This design has 1/2 the pieces that the bugatti had. Now some 4 years later my skills have improved (somewhat) and I hope this one will be alot better.



Me thinks you've acquired a fair amount of patience as well. Gotta give something like this a go for a 3 cylinder engine I want to build.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Me thinks you've acquired a fair amount of patience as well.



That's fair. I don't seem to be in a big hurry like i used to. Also if a part needs a fair amount of setup and i'm too lazy to do it, I just go in for the night and do the work the next time i'm out there. I find that i'm not looking for that "short cut". You know, the ones that never work out. 

BTW 4 down, 8 to go!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Joachim Steinke  said:
			
		

> And as I have to do all the turning jobs on this little living room toy lathe here (.ha ha ha.)



Achim, Sir!!

I have seen samples of your work and you would have a hard time convincing me that the "living room toy" lathe is holding you back. Your work is very impressive.

This crankshaft is experimental. I may be doing all this for nothing but I need to see how hard it is to do. Who knows!!


----------



## kustomkb

That's a very impressive crank you are holding there Steve.

I hope all continues to go well!


----------



## dsquire

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> That's fair. I don't seem to be in a big hurry like i used to. Also if a part needs a fair amount of setup and i'm too lazy to do it, I just go in for the night and do the work the next time i'm out there. I find that i'm not looking for that "short cut". You know, the ones that never work out.
> 
> BTW 4 down, 8 to go!!


Steve

Your text above that I have quoted tells us all why you are so successful with the delicate machining of the small engine parts. Patience, patience, patience. It works every time. Wishing you the best of luck with the rest of the engine, I'll be watching. :bow:

Cheers 

Don


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello all!

I spent some time making chips today. I cut all the crank pieces except the front nose piece. Then using the center hole. I found the center of the piece.






I used a 1/16 end mill and cut the square in the end of one of the center sections. At .010 per pass it took me 22 laps around the square to break thru.








I pressed the center section together with the rear section and with the 2 outside bearings held down the center bearing showed a few tenths runout. I took a short video of the test results. The crank disks show almost .002 runout so the journal must be about the same but I believe the runout in the bearing is taking up some of the error.

The video is very poor. The indicator is .004 full swing both ways. The needle is moving about .0004 
 [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plfazkKtb8Q[/ame]


I think it would be worth cutting a few more squares and see what happens. If I can keep the runout to a few thou, I'm going drill and pin the crank and give it a try. Here is a picture of the next piece being pressed on. I used two, 3/8 inch tool bits and a deep socket. Not fancy but it worked very well.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

So depressing. I have a long long way to go to achieve that level of workmanship.


----------



## Lakc

I see I am not the only one who uses lathe toolbits for their squareness.


----------



## Peter.

I'd be careful doing that - I've found several of mine in the past to be less than perfectly square.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I GIVE UP!!! for now

This crankshaft is a failure. Seems when i held the pieces in the fixture, they were not aligned on axis so the crank arm axis is not parallel with the center line axis of the crankshaft. That means that the rods will wiggle in the cylinder bores and i cannot except that. I think what i'm going to do is carry on with something else and come back to the crankshaft at a later date.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> for now



You scared me.

Otherwise, I would have no worry that you'll get it.
I'll wait...anxiously...but I'll wait.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Ditto here, I thought the same thing at first...I know and understand how it goes..sometimes you just have to change focus for awhile...You will get er Steve. One thing you at least know what went wrong and can take corrective measures next time around. I am sure the rest of the gang feels as I do and really appreciate all your hard work and step by step details in the build.

Thanks again Steve!


----------



## Maryak

Steve,

Hang in there ;D

My computer failure this week combined with my mate holidaying in Canada have me in some form of burn out at the moment so I know where you are at. My concern is if I don't get back in the saddle soon the horse will go on without me.

So comes Friday it's Yippee Kayo and out with the whips and on with chips. :

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## stevehuckss396

zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> You scared me.




Hahahaa!! I'm sorry! 

I have spent this entire month with nothing to show for it. Time to move on to some valve cages or something. Need to get the energy in the shop back to positive!!

I started building one of those mini cannons that shoots BB's using flash powder. When i'm done (end of the week) I will get going again.

Zee, Deere, Maryak, I shall be back!!


----------



## kustomkb

Hey Steve, sorry the crank didn't work out. That's a lot of patient work that went into that. 

Have fun with the projectiles and show us a video!

I've got something going to distract me from the hoglet too...


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello all!

Now that the Zanesville show is behind me, I can get back to the V8. I started on some valve cages today. I made the blanks in the chuck and then switched to the collet to machine the top of the cages. I have 5 heads to trim out so I had to make 40 pieces. Yikes!


----------



## 1hand

Steve looking good. I got a question, is your lathe CNC?
40 pieces would take me all month to make!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

1hand  said:
			
		

> Steve looking good. I got a question, is your lathe CNC?
> 40 pieces would take me all month to make!!!



No it is not CNC. That was done by hand but i do have a DRO so that speeds things along.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello all!

Managed some more time so I got back to the garage.

I had to take a skim cut across the face of the cage to knock off the nub that was left when I parted off the blanks







Then the piece was center drilled and drilled thru .010 less then the diameter of the reamer.












Then the piece gets reamed to the stem size to create the valve guide.







Then the piece gets drilled to depth to create the port. I also like to cover the face of the part with a sharpie at this point. It helps me to see what is going on when i cut the seat surfaces in.







And finally the valve seat is cut in with a micro boring bar. Make sure that you use the sharpest tool you can find. The seats need as good a finish as you can get, almost mirror finish. A good finish will give the best chance of getting a good seal when the valve is installed..







One set down, 4 sets to go. There are many ways to do these things but I like to do things this way because it gives me the best chance of getting the stem hole in alignment and concentric with the seat


----------



## stevehuckss396

Cross valve cages off the list. HOLY CRAP!! there are alot of them!!


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Cross valve cages off the list. HOLY CRAP!! there are alot of them!!
> 
> 
> Ohh come on now...YOU wanted to make a V8 didn't ya! ;D
> 
> Looking Good Steve....another beauty is coming!
> 
> Dave


----------



## 1hand

If I knew what a cross valve cage was.......I say they look really good! LOL :big:

Matt


----------



## stevehuckss396

1hand  said:
			
		

> If I knew what a cross valve cage was.......I say they look really good! LOL :big:
> 
> Matt



Matt, a valve cage is a valve guide, valve seat, and runner passage all in one. The cage is pressed into the head and then the intake or exhaust port is drilled thru into the cage. The fuel flows thru the head and passes thru the valve cage and into the head as long as the valve is open. The exhaust then flows thru the cage and the head to the pipes. 

If you need more info, PM me and i'll send over some drawings that will clear it up further.


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> stevehuckss396  said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cross valve cages off the list. HOLY CRAP!! there are alot of them!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh come on now...YOU wanted to make a V8 didn't ya! ;D
> 
> Looking Good Steve....another beauty is coming!
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...


If I wanted a V8 I would have only made 16 of them!!  I WANT 2!!!


----------



## BlakeMcKee

Noooooo please don't give up, this project is sooo awesome! You're doing a fantastic job! Truly inspiring for me, a complete beginner.


----------



## stevehuckss396

BlakeMcKee  said:
			
		

> Noooooo please don't give up, this project is sooo awesome! You're doing a fantastic job! Truly inspiring for me, a complete beginner.



Don't panic Blake, I'll keep plunging forward!!


----------



## dreeves

Steve

What ever happened to your little cannon?


----------



## stevehuckss396

dreeves  said:
			
		

> What ever happened to your little cannon?



I haven't unpacked from the Zanesville show. It's in there somewhere. Tomorrow sounds like a good day for a test fire!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Spent the afternoon pressing in all the valve cages. I made a simple drive tool slightly smaller than the ID of the cage and pressed them in a drill press. I like the fact that the press fit does not need to be very tight because the cage cant be shot out by the compression of the cylinder. 

I also started to make some valves. These wont go as fast as the cages.

Stand By!


----------



## Lakc

Just how tight a press fit is that?


----------



## putputman

I'm curious as how you machine your valves. It appears that you turn all the shafts to size and later machine the valve seats. I thought everyone machined the entire valve in one setup to achieve the required concentricity. I have seen enough of your engines running to know that what ever process you use has been very successful. Could you show some photos of your setup for machining the valve seats.


----------



## LongRat

^^ Ditto on what Putputman said.
Also, can you confirm those cages are brass (or are they bronze or something else?)
How are you going to achieve exactly the same angle on the valve as you have in the seat, all questions about concentricity aside? I have seen in several places it mentioned that model engine valves are not 'ground-in' to their seats. Why not do this? Is there something that would stop it working?
Anyway beautiful work. Keep it up Steve!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Just how tight a press fit is that?



The hole was reamed to .250 and all the cages were .2503 - .2508. When I press from the top I make them .001 - .0015 over size but they press hard for such a tiny piece. These slide in much easier.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Put & LongRat

First the seats. When I cut the seats I set the compound to 45 degrees. I always make the valves after, and cut the angle on the valve having never moved the compound slide. This way I know that the angles are exactly the same. If I were to grind the valve I cant be sure the angles are exact using 2 machines.

As for concentricity. When I cut the seat I will hold the valve stam in a collet. I did not spend my money on a cheap chinese set of collets so the accuracy is better than the cheap ones. I'm confident I will be inside .0005. 

There are many ways to do it and this way works for me.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Oh sorry! Yes they are brass


----------



## dvbydt

Hi, new on this forum and have just read this fantastic thread. I probably missed it, but did you dismiss the possibility of making the crank like the Rover V8 (a Buick design) with two conrods per crank pin? It should be easier to machine especially if you have a big bore 4 jaw chuck which will accept the offsets.

Ian


----------



## stevehuckss396

dvbydt  said:
			
		

> Hi, new on this forum and have just read this fantastic thread. I probably missed it, but did you dismiss the possibility of making the crank like the Rover V8 (a Buick design) with two conrods per crank pin? It should be easier to machine especially if you have a big bore 4 jaw chuck which will accept the offsets.
> 
> Ian



Working with a 9X20 with a 3/4 bore. There are 4 crank arms (pins) with 2 per layed out 90 degrees apart. Nothing is easy but it is all I have at the moment. I still have 2 more ideas for the crank but I have tied myself up with the heads. I am going to continue with the heads until i hit a wall or finish them and then revisit the crankshaft.

Welcome to the forum Ian. There is alot of talent and wisdom here. Great bunch of people!!


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> First the seats. When I cut the seats I set the compound to 45 degrees. I always make the valves after, and cut the angle on the valve having never moved the compound slide. This way I know that the angles are exactly the same. If I were to grind the valve I cant be sure the angles are exact using 2 machines.


Full size practice is 1/2 to 1 degree of difference to get a skinny contact patch with high seat pressures. They all lap in together eventually.



			
				stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> The hole was reamed to .250 and all the cages were .2503 - .2508. When I press from the top I make them .001 - .0015 over size but they press hard for such a tiny piece. These slide in much easier.


Thanks! I never trust myself enough to design any press fits. This upcoming build of mine will be the first with cages for that matter, so this has been very informative.


----------



## LongRat

Very useful information, thanks Steve.
I have a very small high speed spindle that could be mounted on the compound (I also have a 9x20). I always fancied the idea of grinding the valves with that, with the compound still set at the angle used to make the valve seats as you did.
Do you notice the sliding fit of the valve stem in the guide changes (tighter) after the cages are pressed into the head?


----------



## stevehuckss396

LongRat  said:
			
		

> Do you notice the sliding fit of the valve stem in the guide changes (tighter) after the cages are pressed into the head?



Don't know. I make the valves after the cages are in so I dont know how they fit before.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I made 10 more blanks today so I have a total of 18 made so far. They take a few minutes because when I turn them the stem gets small and they get a bit of a taper. I just use some sand paper to polish the taper out. If I have the weekend off I might get them finished up.


----------



## jpeter

Hey, I've been following your posts about your crank follies. I too had lots of problems making a satisfactory crank of v8 length. After a few failed attempts I fell on the following procedure:
 I used round bar, 4140 I think. I centerdrilled the ends for the four throws like you did. Next I clamped the blank to the mill table laying it in a slot for alignment and support. I then used an end mill to remove most of the excess material. After completion I'd turn the blank 90 degrees and repeat the process until I had a complete crank but with square journals not to much oversize. I next placed it in the lathe and turned the throws in the four throw centers. Faced the inside of each throw at this time too. I use 5 main bearings so i knew it was very important to get the mains collinear so I turned them last. Before turning I placed spacers between the throws so I could put some squeeze on the mains with out collapsing the thing, clamped it between centers and turned the mains to size; trued up the outside too. This procedure worked so well for me I'd not change a thing. One V8 crank; about 8 hours.

My first attempts were much like yours with the square bar. The extended deep interupped cuts wrecked my lathe, tools, took vast amounts of time and was ruining my hearing from the chatter and ruined my disposition.


----------



## jpeter

Got some valves to make? Got CNC? Check this link to see how I made a few. I know I could have stylized them with reduced shanks and such but it was just a start and early on. Later on I fancied them up.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47tx15FgLQ8[/ame]


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Got some valves to make? Got CNC? Check this link to see how I made a few. I know I could have stylized them with reduced shanks and such but it was just a start and early on. Later on I fancied them up.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47tx15FgLQ8




How did you get the taper out of the stem. My stems are only .093 and .850 long so it is unavoidable unless I put a center in the tail stock. Of course that would have to be cut off and it just seems easier to polish a bit of taper out.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> How did you get the taper out of the stem. My stems are only .093 and .850 long so it is unavoidable unless I put a center in the tail stock. Of course that would have to be cut off and it just seems easier to polish a bit of taper out.


Lots of rake on a very sharp bit and tiny cuts. Otherwise, if you dont mind wasting the material, you can always make it long enough to use a center.


----------



## jpeter

Your point about the small stem is noted. My stem is 1/8 dia.. 
Regarding taper: Notice the first pass is pretty deep and the second pass is a finish cut. Notice too the cutter is working pretty nicely. I can't fool you guys, there is some taper but in the area that slides in the guide the size is less than a thou under. If you haven't yet seen my v8 its on youtube. Search for jpeterjpeter. 
There's lots of different way to install valves and the bucket idea is the current fashion but in my engines, v8 included, I generally press in brass guides reamed for the valve stem. Its a pretty light press cuz the spring holds everything together. I make the stem undersized by a thou or so. I cut seats directly in the aluminum using a home made cutter which has a guide machined on the end. I control the depth of the cutter with the mill cuz without control the seat cutter tends to hog in in spots. I lap the valves in then with baking soda, spinning them with an electric drill or Dremel on slow. I test the results by bolting the head to a plate, gasket included, and blow air, from my mouth, in the chamber through a modified sparkplug; small tube required here. A bubble every 5 seconds is my limit for leakage. 

Hey Steve, sorry for hogging up your thread. Seems I always have to pitch in my 2 cents. Your project is looking mighty fine. I see you don't live too far from me. Some day I'm gonna drop in on you and check out your stuff. Did I notice there's a club that meets out in McComb county somewhere?


----------



## dvbydt

So, I did miss something, put it down to old age. The marking on your crank blank looked like you were trying to do one journal per conrod.
Jpeter has given you a method that obviously works and I am very impressed by his skill level. Doing this between centers is not something I would find easy, even though I have been earning my living as a machinist all my working life.
Pity you are the other side of the pond, you would be welcome to use my 12 x 36. The bore on the big 4 jaw is 2 1/4 ins. and you could rough plunge each journal before moving the blank out to do the next, then finish size between centers. 
This is a brilliant project and I look forward to future posts. (Camshaft?) 

Ian


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I see you don't live too far from me. Some day I'm gonna drop in on you and check out your stuff. Did I notice there's a club that meets out in McComb county somewhere?



What city do you live in?


Yes there is. Here is a bit of info

Metro Detroit Metalworking Club
2nd Wednesday of the month
Macomb Community Collage
South Campus (12 & Hayes)
North Lobby of S Building
7:00 PM


----------



## stevehuckss396

dvbydt  said:
			
		

> This is a brilliant project and I look forward to future posts. (Camshaft?)



The cam will be alot easier than the crankshaft. .070 lift, 280/280


----------



## jpeter

Steve, I live in Kingston. Its up VanDyke a few miles north of
Marlette, then a little west. From my place its about 65 miles to Lakeside mall.

How many attend? What goes on at a meeting? Whats the cost?


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Steve, I live in Kingston. Its up VanDyke a few miles north of
> Marlette, then a little west. From my place its about 65 miles to Lakeside mall.
> 
> How many attend? What goes on at a meeting? Whats the cost?




There are about 15 regulars. the meetings are very casual. There is sometimes a program like once there was a rep from loc-tite and every fall there is a swap meet in the parking lot. September meeting a fellow came from Ohio to talk about casting aluminum. There is a guy lined up to talk about heat treating but i'm not sure when. Even when nothing is going on, It's still a good place to go to talk about all things metal but the guys are into wood, guns, model railroad, ect.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

I am now up to 32 valve blanks when I ran out of 1/4 inch drill rod. I will get a piece tomorrow after work and hopefully get the last 8 done so I can get on with cutting the slots and valve angles into the blanks.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello all!

All 40 of the valve blanks are completed. They take forever but it will someday be worth it.








To cut the slots I used my ER11 collets. I was able to put the valves in backward and slot the stem for the E-clips. I have an insert holder and a .020 slotting tool. Makes it easy to have a nice sharp tool because I stink at grinding tool bits.

















Then I made a few test pieces. I chose not to reduce the size of the stem at the head so I could hold the valve real close for rigidity. I took a light cut accross the face. I want the valves flush in the head and the hole for the valve cage is .250 so I reduced the OD of the valve down to .245.






Then I cut the valve angle into the back surface.






So now you all know what I'll be doing tomorrow!!


----------



## 1hand

Wow thats some tiny stuff your workn with there. Looks like they turned out very nice.


How many times you chase them parts across the floor..... :big:

Matt


----------



## kcmillin

I just put an ER collet chuck and collets on the Must Buy list. That would have been nice when I made my valves. But I only had to make 16, well 17 if you count the one that was eaten by the swarf pile.

They look real nice BTW, have fun lapping those puppies in. 

Kel

P.S. 

Anybody know why the spell checker doesn't like the word collet?

That IS how it's spelled, Right?


----------



## stevehuckss396

1hand  said:
			
		

> How many times you chase them parts across the floor..... :big:



None but I dropped a few into the swarf and it took a few minutes to find!! :big: :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> They look real nice BTW, have fun lapping those puppies in.



I don't lap them. I just install them and I dont mess with them unless there is a problem.


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> None but I dropped a few into the swarf and it took a few minutes to find!! :big: :big:



Ha, I wasn't so lucky. You must have good eyes, or a nice pair of glasses. :big:

No lapping huh, What method do you use to test the fit.?

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> No lapping huh, What method do you use to test the fit.?



I don't test the fit. I make the valves and the seats without moving the compound and if I get a good finish on both the valve and seat, They will work.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Finished all the valves tonight. Everything went according to plan.








Had a little extra time so I got a jump on the rocker studs.


----------



## bronson

I can't believe the amount of machining you did on the heads and block in that small of a space. I have just been reading this build over the last two nights and i am really impressed. Can't wait to see the finished product. Keep up the great work. Looks just amazing.


----------



## stevehuckss396

bronson  said:
			
		

> I can't believe the amount of machining you did on the heads and block in that small of a space. I have just been reading this build over the last two nights and i am really impressed. Can't wait to see the finished product. Keep up the great work. Looks just amazing.



Thank you!

I was hoping to get some more work done on the rocker studs but I had to work late today. After the studs I will make the valve spring retainers and then the rocker arms. Those are going to be a bugger.

Thanks for the interest.

Steve


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
It looks like the production line at the Ford plant. Great looking work. 
George


----------



## don-tucker

Marvellous stuff Steve,following every post, makes my engines look like boys work.
Don


----------



## Maryak

Steve,

I read somewhere that you had not been at this very long.

If I had your talent, just think where I'd be after 52 years give or take a bit. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## stevehuckss396

Maryak  said:
			
		

> I read somewhere that you had not been at this very long.




Well I purchased my lathe and mill in April or May of 2007 so it has been almost 5 years now. I think i'm starting to get the hang of this stuff. I wish I would have done this in May of 87.


----------



## stevehuckss396

don-tucker  said:
			
		

> Marvellous stuff Steve,following every post



Thanks Don! I am trying to keep things moving. Hard to do when there is so many things to make.


----------



## ozzie46

Looks good Steve.

 Yeah that repetitive stuff kills me. Thats why I never lasted in factory work.
 Same old thing day after day, drove me nuts *bang* *bang* *bang*.
 Went into law enforcement for almost twenty years then drove 18 wheelers for awhile till I retired. Really enjoyed Law enforcement.

Ron


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Quick update. I have finished all the rocker stud tops. Back to the collets and turning and threading the bottoms. I also reduced the diameter so when the hex is cut on the stud there will be a minimum of material.


----------



## stevehuckss396

ozzie46  said:
			
		

> Looks good Steve.
> Yeah that repetitive stuff kills me.



Thanks Ron & G!

That's why I moved on to the heads. I think 80% of the parts for a V8 is in the heads. There is 16 of everything. When the heads are done, I will over a big hump.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

I finished all the bottoms and all that is left is to mill the hex on the shaft so they can be installed. For that I just used the rotory table in the mill with a collet holder in the center of the table. 120 pieces in the last 2 weeks and now I have to make the valve spring retainers, 40 of them :'(


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

I made a few valve spring retainers this morning. 

I turned the OD on a piece of 1/4 inch brass about an inch long and faced the end.






Then spot drilled and drilled the ID about an inch deep.






Then I used an endmill to make the flat bottom pocket for the spring clip.






Then I cut a groove deep enough to create the step in the bottom that will insert into the spring.






Then just move over the length of the step and part off the piece. Then starting with the step of making the pocket with the endmill, I continued until the inch of turned material was gone. It took 4 cycles of 1 inch of rod to make 43 pieces with 2 boo boo's.











That's it for the day. I have a half dozen or so club members coming over to hang out, eat, and brain storm about getting there stuff going. Should be a great day!!


----------



## kcmillin

Great job Steve, Its kinda fun ending up with so many identical parts, it makes me feel like I am accomplishing something. When I made my retainers I kept going until I had about 12 extra, I figured they were easy and I will most likely loose one or two.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Great job Steve, Its kinda fun ending up with so many identical parts, it makes me feel like I am accomplishing something. When I made my retainers I kept going until I had about 12 extra, I figured they were easy and I will most likely loose one or two.



Loose them or shoot them accross the garage trying to install them!


----------



## Lakc

Looks good! Thats a slick grooving/parting tool you have there, I need to invest in one.


----------



## mu38&Bg#

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

>



About this grooving tool. Is it from the Enco catalog or did you splurge on the Sandvik? I was looking at Sandvik, but they cost far too much to justify. And, it's hard to find anyone who will sell you inserts individually. Last night, while browsing the Enco catalog I saw what appears to be identical tooling, US made to boot!

Greg


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> About this grooving tool.



Got mine fromk KBC tool. They will sell single inserts. They make grooving, threading, turning, and copying inserts in many sizes. I use it alot on small pieces like valves and stuff. 


NIKCOLE
MINI-SYSTEMS
Grooving and
Cut-Off System
For Grooving & Cut-Off
Under .078" Width


----------



## kuhncw

I've found the Nikcole system to be quite handy. 

AW Warner sells a line of HSS inserts that fit the Nikcole system. http://www.arwarnerco.com/

Steve, is that an endmill holder with MT shank you are using to hold the endmill in the lathe tailstock? 

Regards,


Chuck Kuhn


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Thank you for that. Steve what material did you use for the valves?

Greg


----------



## metalmad

looking too good not to coment steve 
just waiting for your next post 
pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> Steve, is that an endmill holder with MT shank you are using to hold the endmill in the lathe tailstock?



Hello Chuck!

It's just a 1/2 inch chuck that i use for just about everything.


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> Steve what material did you use for the valves?



I use 0-1 drill rod for my valves.


----------



## stevehuckss396

metalmad  said:
			
		

> looking too good not to coment steve
> just waiting for your next post
> pete



Hello Pete!

Shouldn't be too long. I am going to start cutting the rocker arms tomorrow? While the CNC machine is doing that, I am going to try to redrill some of the intake and exhaust ports.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Good day in the garage today. After pressing in my valve cages last week, I spent the day redrilling all the intake and exhaust passages. After that was done I came in the house and made some g-code and started on some rocker arms. I managed to cut the side profile and then after they were broken apart, I milled the slot in the top. I think I am going to make a fixture of some kind so I can finish about 6 at a time.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Looking at your rocker arms I get the idea that they will have a roller tip on them. It that's the case are you going to have an adjuster setup on the pushrod side?
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> Looking at your rocker arms I get the idea that they will have a roller tip on them. It that's the case are you going to have an adjuster setup on the pushrod side?
> George



Yes they will be rollers. The adjustment will be a 4-40 polylock nut with a 4-40 grub screw to lock the nut. They will be true polylocks like my chevy had. Thats if I can make everything fit!!!


----------



## Lakc

Thats looking real good. Cant wait to see this all assembled.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Started finishing the rockers today. Made a fixture out of some scrap aluminum. Wanted to do 8 at a time but the aluminum had other plans. I was able to make 6 at a time. The parts were drilled for a 2-56 screw and then the outer shape was cut. I'm not real happy with some of them so I may make a second batch. I do like the the way the fixture worked out. I may make a better fixture. No matter what I decide, I won't be doing much any time soon. Work is getting busy!


----------



## cfellows

I admire your patience with those parts, Steve. Great looking parts!

Chuck


----------



## Lakc

Things are getting busy at my work as well, kinda refreshing for around this town.

I just wouldnt have the guts to try parts that small, tip of the hat too you.! :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> I just wouldnt have the guts to try parts that small, tip of the hat too you.! :bow:



Thanks Chuck & Lakc

They are not that small. More than 1/2 inch long, they are huge!! I had big hopes for finishing this weekend but now I have to work Sunday. :'(


----------



## deere_x475guy

Nice Steve, The small parts are what kill me the most...


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Nice Steve, The small parts are what kill me the most...



Just get a small vise and some small end mills and some glasses. After building the micro HOSC wobbler engine, nothing is small.

How's things been going Bob? I miss your posts on anodizing.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Actually a small screwless vice is on my list to do this fall. What size would you recommend?

I actually have run out of stuff to anodize. I need to repair or build a new crank for it though...long story. I am going to place an order someday for the commercial dye.

Today I started a prototype part for one of my neighbors. Something to do with the guys running big electric trains.. I don't know for sure what scale they are. He is asking about a price to anodized the parts but I am a little leary about doing it on parts to be sold. I just really don't want the troubles that could come with that.

I check in a lot throughout the week but it is on my droid and I already mistype enough as it is...so I just generally keep an eye on what you and the rest are up to ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Actually a small screwless vice is on my list to do this fall. What size would you recommend?
> I am a little leary about doing it on parts to be sold.



I have a 3" vise on the CNC mill. It works for most everything.

You don't want to end up with another job do you? This stuff is suppose to be something fun to do.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Not full time, but I have brought in enough over the last 7 years to almost pay for all my equipment. So long as it happens only a couple of times a year or so it works out great. I hope to retire in 5 years and it would be nice to bring in some extra cash from the shop.

3 inch should work...thanks!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!


Well, I have designed a new fixture for the rockers. I have written the new Gcode for the fixture and the rockers. The way I would like to proceed is to use the CNC machine to cut the fixture out. This way the X and Y axis will already have reference and save alot of setup and everything will have a high probability of coming out real nice. The problem with all that is the amount of time it will take to do all that. I was hoping to do it on a weekend so I will have all day and wont be out in the garage late.

Not having a day off last weekend and this past weekend, I have gotten tired of doing nothing, waiting for rocker arm day so i decided to make some lifters. I didn't take many pictures because they are a very simple part. I managed to make a full set of 16 today so i am half done. After this photo was taken, I turned the part around and faced off the little nub and polished the bottom real good. It will be rubbing on the cam so we don't want any sharp edges.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Sounds like work has been cramping your style Steve....I hope you have some time off over the Thanksgiving holidays...

We will be in Farmington Hills all day tomorrow hanging out at my oldests daughters. Then I have the next 3 days to get some shop time in..


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Sounds like work has been cramping your style Steve....I hope you have some time off over the Thanksgiving holidays...
> 
> We will be in Farmington Hills all day tomorrow hanging out at my oldests daughters. Then I have the next 3 days to get some shop time in..



I hate you!! Hahhaahah!!
Have to work friday 7am to 3:30pm then 6pm to mid night and then go back in saturday 7am to when ever it gets done. MIGHT get sunday off.


----------



## rcfreak177

G'day stevehucks396,

The progress on you'r V8 is looking good, I can't seem to grasp where you find the time.
My little V8 has basically stopped for the moment as here in Western Australia we are leading up to the summer months. I tell ya anywhere above 32 degrees Celsius in my tin workshop is rather uncomfortable so I am enjoying watching the progress you are making for the moment. *Please! Please! Please! keep up the great work*.

Barry.


----------



## stevehuckss396

rcfreak177  said:
			
		

> I can't seem to grasp where you find the time.
> I tell ya anywhere above 32 degrees Celsius in my tin workshop is rather uncomfortable



Thanks Barry. Living in Michigan, I understand completely. When I added the shop to the back of the garage, I put in a gas furnace and put the centeral air unit on it. I don't use the air much but it is nice to have. The furnace gets used alot. Winter is the time where progress gets better.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Cross lifters off the list. Both sets are complete. I am hoping to get back to rockers this weekend.


----------



## kustomkb

Your engine is looking great Steve, Awesome work!


----------



## pat1967

Your engine is looking great!
I still can't get my head around as to how fast your build is progressing! Looking forward to seeing the heads fitted out with the rockers.

Pat


----------



## stevehuckss396

pat1967  said:
			
		

> Your engine is looking great!
> I still can't get my head around as to how fast your build is progressing! Looking forward to seeing the heads fitted out with the rockers.
> 
> Pat



Working on them right now, well, after lunch!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

I was supposed to work today but the job was postponed until next week so I woke up and spent a quiet day in the garage. I made another batch of rocker sides. I tossed all the bad ones in the melt bucket. Then I used the CNC mill to make a new fixture. After the fixture was done I started loading the rockers while the mill was still on and ran the pieces right away. The results were much better. I am alot happier with this batch.


----------



## deere_x475guy

WOW Steve...things are coming along it would appear...

 :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## Lakc

Looks great. Your definately getting use out of your cnc setup. 
Perfect 4 day weekend and I am getting nothing fun done, waiting on plaster to dry to start painting my living and dining rooms. Thats okay, if it keeps momma happy I will get guilt free shop time when its over.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Thats okay, if it keeps momma happy I will get guilt free shop time when its over.



And maybe a little special something else!!


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> And maybe a little special something else!!


I am really praying I get that DRO for Christmas.


----------



## LatheMaster

Stevehuckss396 , 

I just found this site today doing research for a cnc conversion project . I am a machinist by trade but most of my experience with cnc is lathe . I have done some home projects with cnc mill and manual mill . Im at a point where a transitions from lathe to mill would not be that difficult . I would have a learning curve though . I only have a drillpress and bandsaw in my garage at this point . I have solidworks 06' and MasterCam 9,10,x4 . Soon X5 at work . I live in a halfplex and worry about all the noise I will be making so I am trying to keep my machine size down . I have been thinking about getting an X2 and later a small lathe to convert . Many guys are trying to talk me out of the X2 but I like the size . 

I need to learn 3d programming and get more experience with mill setups . What you are doing is what I would like to work up to . I am big into rc hobbies and could start off on small 2-stroke projects at first . I was wondering what your thought on the X2 size mill would be ? It looks like you mill is about the same size . I dont get to work on small stuff anymore unless I do a homeproject so I look forward to getting my own machines . 

Also want to mention this is some awesome work your doing here and I look forward to seeing more of your project .


----------



## stevehuckss396

LatheMaster  said:
			
		

> I was wondering what your thought on the X2 size mill would be ? It looks like you mill is about the same size .



My mill is bigger than the X2. I started with one of those compound tables and built my own. I also have a full size bridgeport.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6511.0

My opinion of the X3 is that it will work well and there is alot of projects that can be done on it. BUT!! Alot of the really cool stuff is to big for the X3. Most of the V8 plans are 1/4 scale and larger with the Whittle V8 being the exception. That is the reason I designed the small V8. You could still make stuff like the Shores Hurc and Silver Bullet and The seal as well as many more small IC engines. Most, but not all X3 owners end up wishing they had a larger machine. If you think you might move into a project like a 1/4 scale V8 or a larger IC engine, maybe move up to a mill like this.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-half-horsepower-heavy-duty-milling-drilling-machine-33686.html

Still a benchtop but you can do larger projects on it. If you plan to stick to smaller projects, the X2 will do you just fine. 

Maybe your pals are afraid your mill is to small to do their projects?


----------



## steamer

It's looking great Steve.....I'm a getting a hankering for a multi!


 ;D


Toooooo Many Projects!!!!

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Well, I'm one step closer to having the rockers done. I managed to mill the slot in the nose of the rocker. I had some boo boo's along the way that I managed to fix sorta. Good thing these are hidden under valve covers!! I have three things to do still. I need to cut some clearance in the nose for the spring retainer. The rocker will pop the retainer off if i don't. Then the tail will get counterbored and threaded to accept a 2-56 screw. This will allow the pushrod to push on the screw instead of the aluminum rocker.

I am doing all this because I wanted to make some cool rockers. A much simpler rocker could be made in 1/4 the time. What the h7!! was I thinking.


----------



## gbritnell

Very nice work Steve!!!!!!!!
George


----------



## kcmillin

Them rockers look sweet Steve. :bow:

 Well worth the extra work.

Kel


----------



## ozzie46

Looking very very good Steve. 

  Ron


----------



## metalmad

my god thats great Steve
Pete


----------



## Lakc

Slick looking for sure.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks everybody!

Taking the night off, waiting for metal to come in the mail.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Decided to do something easy tonight. I made the rollers for the rockers and the pins to pin the rollers. The rollers were a case of drilling the center and then parting them off a piece of 1/8 inch droll rod. The pins were just parted off a piece of 1/16 drill rod.


----------



## Lakc

Thats some seriously small stuff. I always have a problem measuring such things on my lathe, I doubt I would get them all the same size.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Thats some seriously small stuff. I always have a problem measuring such things on my lathe, I doubt I would get them all the same size.



You wont have trouble if you get that DRO for Christmas!!


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> You wont have trouble if you get that DRO for Christmas!!


The DRO is for the Millport. I wouldnt waste a good dro on the lathe just to watch all the numbers jump around when I started a cut.  I have a pair of dial indicators that are adequate, but I need to investigate some kind of better base for the crossslide to get rid of a whole lot of unwanted flexibility. If I were to attempt to do what you just did, I would have to make a tooling setup to trim and part all in one shot.


----------



## cl350rr

Nice work on the rockers, it will all be worth it when you hear (and video) it running

Randy


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!

Made some progress in the way of the rocker pivots. They were a little trickier than i thought they would be. These things are only .156 round and .250 long. Made all the barrels first. Just used .156 drill rod and parted off the pieces and used a file to break the corners.






I was able to set the barrel down on a parallel. I had one that is just smaller than the height of the vise jaw.






I started using a center drill to spot the hole but the drill kept wandering anyway. I did'nt know this but found that if i used the center drill to drill as deep as it took to make a starter hole that was just smaller than the drill, It would follow the spotted area and worked much better.







Then Just a drill bit to get the hole in it.













I don't have the nuts done yet but I could not resist putting 8 rockers together just to see what it looks like. Of course the valves would need to be put in also. Everything looks ok so far. I have also used some JB weld to patch up the water jacket fiasco and hope to complete the heads by the end of next week?


----------



## kustomkb

They look great Steve. Nice progress!


----------



## Lakc

That looks like a million bucks! :bow:


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

Very cool your engine!

The position of the spark plug... Can do this affect the running of the engine ?

In your drawing, you put the spark plug on the side of the cylinder... it helps a lot for engines with small diameters, is that idea ?

Are you creating this engine or drawings are third-party ?

Best regards,

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

Alexandre Machado  said:
			
		

> The position of the spark plug... Can do this affect the running of the engine ?
> In your drawing, you put the spark plug on the side of the cylinder... it helps a lot for engines with small diameters, is that idea ?
> Are you creating this engine or drawings are third-party ?



I doubt the location of the plug will affect it running at this size. They are there simply to keep them looking like the american V8. Most American V8 engines (work horses)are off to the side like that. As long as the plugs are in there somewhere, It should run.

The design is my own. I did take some ideas and general measurements from other engines.


----------



## agmachado

Ok, great job!

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

I finally did it!!

I finally had some time to get the rocker arms done. I put a few together and tested the amount of actual rocking motion and of course, Not enough. I started the day re-cutting the slot by just a few thou. I might have gotten away with what I had but the pushrod length would have had to be exact so why fight it. 







Then the counterbore was done. I had a club member regrind a #2 counter bore bit so the pilot was a few thou smaller than the tap drill instead of the clearance hole. I was able to then counter bore the bottom for a caphead screw.







Then all that was left was the tapping of the holes in the tail. Thru hole with 1/16 of material, what the heck. I used the "speed tap wrench" to get the job done. 







After that I started to make the adjusting nuts but after 2 I didn't feel like doing them. I wanted to have some fun instead of the production line stuff that has been going on lately. I decided to make the air cleaner lid after looking at JPeter's V8. He has a cool air cleaner on his and I was thinking "I want one of those". So I spent the rest of the session watching the mill make me one.

Sorry about the crappy picture.


----------



## Lakc

Looking real good there!


----------



## jpeter

And a fine air cleaner it is.


----------



## kcmillin

Steve, the air cleaner looks great!! 

Them rockers are incredibly complex little parts. :bow: :bow:

How did you hold them when counter boring? It looks like they are on a drill press with no fixture or vice. Is this just an "After" picture?

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Them rockers are incredibly complex little parts. :bow: :bow:
> 
> How did you hold them when counter boring? It looks like they are on a drill press with no fixture or vice. Is this just an "After" picture?
> 
> Kel



Thanks guys!

I just held them with my fingers and drilled slow. I wasn't afraid of them getting away from me but if I drill too fast they would heat up.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Today I decided to finish the air cleaner lower pan. I found a piece of scrap large enough and faced it and turned the OD.







The air hole and mounting hole were both drilled from the bottom side.







The ID of the mount was bored with the boring bar







Then by some miracle, the part was parted off.






Then the front was cut to shape and that is where the camera battery died.







It was finished off in the CNC mill. I think it is a close replica of a 14 inch Edelbrock. Only without the Edelbrock.


----------



## agmachado

Wonderful, Steve!!!

Very, very cool !!!


----------



## stevehuckss396




----------



## kustomkb

Slick!!


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Today I decided to finish the air cleaner lower pan. I found a piece of scrap large enough and faced it and turned the OD.


You people with all this useful scrap make me jealous. ;D

Looks beautiful!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> You people with all this useful scrap make me jealous. ;D



When I first started out, If I need a foot, I would buy two. If I needed 10 screws I would buy 100. Now some 5 years later I still buy material and screws but not all that often. My strategy worked.


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> When I first started out, If I need a foot, I would buy two. If I needed 10 screws I would buy 100. Now some 5 years later I still buy material and screws but not all that often. My strategy worked.






 ;D.....oh I like the way you think bud...


----------



## Lakc

Ok, I feel better now. I refer to that as stock, not scrap. It all has to do with the acquisition price with me.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well gentlemen, all the parts for the heads are DONE!!! Over the last month or 2 I have made the 360 individual pieces that it will take to complete 5 heads. In the next few days following Christmas I am going to try to get everything assembled. I think i'll take the rest of the night off!!


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Well done. I can't wait to see what they look like assembled.
gbritnell


----------



## Lakc

Good job Steve! I am still working on one cylinder head for a single cylinder! Sounds like you earned your rest.


----------



## deere_x475guy

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Well gentlemen, all the parts for the heads are DONE!!! Over the last month or 2 I have made the 360 individual pieces that it will take to complete 5 heads. In the next few days following Christmas I am going to try to get everything assembled. I think i'll take the rest of the night off!!



Hey Steve, how is the assembly coming along?

PS..If you want anything black anodized I now have the proper sealer and dye to do it along with a PS.


----------



## stevehuckss396

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Hey Steve, how is the assembly coming along?



It's not! I got involved with TB4 so I have spent the last few days making sure my parts are done. I should have everything done tomorrow.

I have also been working on a website for the club so that is an ongoing project.

Hope to be back at it by weeks end or early next week.

Thanks for the offer Bob!


----------



## deere_x475guy

Awh yes, I seen that shortly after I posted the question. Looks like your getting that one wrapped up. Nice job on the heads and engraving.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I think its time to shelf the V8. I have 2 more scrap crankshafts in the trash can. I think I need to do something else for a while and come back to it when my skills improve.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Steve,
You have come a long ways in a short time, and everytime I look at your builds I am in awe. Sometimes it's best to do as you are right now. I know your not discoraged....your past that. Your doing what many people have to do from time to time. Relax a bit and reflect some.


----------



## steamer

Hang tough Steve...it'll still be there when the time is right.

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I tried to take a break but it was a dismal failure. I spent all week last week working on some drawings for the little V8. I have created 29 sheets already. I don't know anything about tolerances so you will be left to your own good judgement on that one. I just put down on the sheets what I did. I'm just trying to get the necessary dimensions on them so you won't be left hanging. From this point on, I will make sure I make the remaining parts from my own drawings. This way I can catch if I leave out a needed dimension. 


Then I couldn't resist making a few parts so I started on the carb. It is a simple drum type carb with adjustable air bleed. If it works out OK, I will include it in the drawings.


----------



## Lakc

Awww its an ittty bitty dominator. ;D Too cute!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Awww its an ittty bitty dominator. ;D Too cute!



Yes it is and I expect to see a little Weber on your's!!


----------



## kcmillin

Wow, this thing just gets cooler and cooler. 

That carb is awesome. 

Is the air bleed in the idle circuit? I am trying to design a carb for my Tiny 4 cylinder, and would like to incorporate an air bleed into the main circuit with perhaps an emulsifying tube, but I can only find info on large carburetors, and I am thinking I might just be adding more potential problems.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Wow, this thing just gets cooler and cooler.
> 
> That carb is awesome.
> 
> Is the air bleed in the idle circuit? I am trying to design a carb for my Tiny 4 cylinder, and would like to incorporate an air bleed into the main circuit with perhaps an emulsifying tube, but I can only find info on large carburetors, and I am thinking I might just be adding more potential problems.
> 
> Kel



The air bleed is a hole thru the body of the carb that leaks air thru the barrel when it is "almost" closed. All I did was put an adjustment screw between the hole and the barrel to make adjustments. When I did the Peewee, the carb had a tiny hole in it. The hole size is increased and test. Increase and test until it works good. Problem is, when you over shoot, there is no going back. 

If you need some help or want to see what I did, I can try to post some pics of my bleed circuit.


----------



## steamer

Looking Awesome Steve!  I like the Dominators!....

Dave


----------



## George_Race

Hi Steve:
The parts you make are absolutely a work of art!

I am curious as to what kind of tooling you use to make something like the little carburetor shown in your recent post.

2 flute, 4 flute, end mill, ball end, carbide, HSS, diameter, etc...

Also, are you hand milling everything? Do you use CNC for some? What is your milling machine?

I don't live very far from you and wonder if there would be any opportunity to visit your shop, and see first hand your work in progress?

Thanks,
George in Albion


----------



## T70MkIII

I am secretly pleased you couldn't put this project down for too long. Looking great, Steve.


----------



## LongRat

Steve, very glad you are still moving forward.
Does your design have space for a built-up crank? I mean the design with the large ball bearing mains. I wonder because there is certainly a following for them and some people might prefer to go that way, using your plans. Having read around quite a lot, I'm sold on them personally.  A lot of people will be following this thread and thinking, "damn, if HE is struggling with the crank, how the hell am I going to do it?". I know you say you are not a master machinist, but the pictures and previous builds paint a somewhat different picture ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

George_Race  said:
			
		

> I am curious as to what kind of tooling you use to make something like the little carburetor shown in your recent post.
> 
> 2 flute, 4 flute, end mill, ball end, carbide, HSS, diameter, etc...
> 
> Also, are you hand milling everything? Do you use CNC for some? What is your milling machine?
> 
> I don't live very far from you and wonder if there would be any opportunity to visit your shop, and see first hand your work in progress?



Hi George! I think I can kill 3 birds with one stone here on questions 1, 2, and 3. The top and bottom were made in a home made CNC mill using a 4 flute, 1/8 inch end mill and a few drill bits. The 4 sides were machined and drilled in a Bridgeport mill. Then the float bowls were made on the CNC mill 8 at a time. The rear bowl still needs some fuel passages drilled and milled into them so I will do them by hand in the BP. 

I sometimes have to work weekends but when I don't, you could stop in on a saturday or sunday. Those are my lazy days.


----------



## stevehuckss396

LongRat  said:
			
		

> Does your design have space for a built-up crank? I mean the design with the large ball bearing mains. I wonder because there is certainly a following for them and some people might prefer to go that way, using your plans.



I have, and will include in the plans, both a one piece and a modular crankshaft. I know I could make a modular crank. I started one but was not happy with it. I'm sure I could pull it off. My problem is I want to push myself and make a one piece crank. If I push myself, I think I will keep learning and improving my skills. I don't want to keep doing the same thing over and over.




			
				LongRat  said:
			
		

> I know you say you are not a master machinist, but the pictures and previous builds paint a somewhat different picture.



That is very kind of you to say, Thank you! The truth is I'm just like everybody else on this forum. I started machining parts about 4-1/2 years ago. I started on the Bugatti and made 80% of it. Then I realized how poor the work was so i fell back and made a few air engines including the micro V8. I made some wobblers and a radial air engine. I also made 3 Cox based engines using Cox cylinders and pistons. Then I went back to the IC engines when I built the Peewee. Peewee was my first IC engine to run. The Bugatti got new cylinder liners, pistons, rings, and water jackets last year but is still not ready to run.

Point is, I'm in the shop slugging it out just like everybody else. I read things and go out and try them. I ask advise and then try to follow it and for the most part things go pretty well. Some things are still a struggle but if i keep pushing myself, those things get easier. You will never know what you are capable of until you try something you don't think you can do. I guess I just push myself harder than most.


----------



## agmachado

Steve,

Know that kindness is you share your knowledge here, in this forum !

Your projects are fantastics !!

Of course, here in this forum there are also many other fantastics projects... but of the internal combustion engines with multiple cylinders are my favorites.

Thank you,

Alexandre


----------



## steamer

"That is very kind of you to say, Thank you! The truth is I'm just like everybody else on this forum. I started machining parts about 4-1/2 years ago. I started on the Bugatti and made 80% of it. Then I realized how poor the work was so i fell back and made a few air engines including the micro V8. I made some wobblers and a radial air engine. I also made 3 Cox based engines using Cox cylinders and pistons. Then I went back to the IC engines when I built the Peewee. Peewee was my first IC engine to run. The Bugatti got new cylinder liners, pistons, rings, and water jackets last year but is still not ready to run.

Point is, I'm in the shop slugging it out just like everybody else. I read things and go out and try them. I ask advise and then try to follow it and for the most part things go pretty well. Some things are still a struggle but if i keep pushing myself, those things get easier. You will never know what you are capable of until you try something you don't think you can do. I guess I just push myself harder than most."




Talk about understated.. ;D...your a damn site better than most seasoned vets I've met....by a long shot.

Dave


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> The air bleed is a hole thru the body of the carb that leaks air thru the barrel when it is "almost" closed. All I did was put an adjustment screw between the hole and the barrel to make adjustments. When I did the Peewee, the carb had a tiny hole in it. The hole size is increased and test. Increase and test until it works good. Problem is, when you over shoot, there is no going back.
> 
> If you need some help or want to see what I did, I can try to post some pics of my bleed circuit.



That would be awesome Steve. I need as much info as I can get when it comes to carb design. I am also interested in making an air bleed in the main circuit, due to the small size of the fuel inlet and adjusting screw, but I have not yet seen this in a model carb.

Kel


----------



## LongRat

Steve, I fully understand. I am designing my 1st engine now. I am at the point where I think I know how far I can push myself while still ending up with something that works. I do not want to invest time pushing myself TOO hard. My enjoyment comes 50-50 from building and then running in practical RC applications. I offer my thanks to you and many other people on the board for inspiration and mostly, useful technical knowledge that only experience really gives.
A thought on the 1-piece crank. What about setting up the blank vertically on the CNC mill and using a slitting saw or T-slot cutter to rough out the bearing journals? Then you could transfer over to the lathe and do the finishing accurately, having got rid of most of the pain of the offset turning and intermittent cutting. It is a method I intend to try as I think a full camshaft could be done this way too, using a vertical CNC rotary table - possibly with a 'tailstock' to support the free end of the blank at the top (a special fixture would need to be made to achieve this). Then, grinding wheel in the mill spindle to grind the cams with pure X axis movement and synchronized rotation of the rotary axis.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> That would be awesome Steve. I need as much info as I can get



Here is a pdf file with a drawing of the air bleed circuit. Very simple thing. Just need to make sure that the hole lines up with the barrel when the carb is almost closed.



View attachment Carb1.pdf


----------



## stevehuckss396

LongRat  said:
			
		

> Steve, I fully understand. I am designing my 1st engine now. I am at the point where I think I know how far I can push myself while still ending up with something that works. I do not want to invest time pushing myself TOO hard. My enjoyment comes 50-50 from building and then running in practical RC applications. I offer my thanks to you and many other people on the board for inspiration and mostly, useful technical knowledge that only experience really gives.
> A thought on the 1-piece crank. What about setting up the blank vertically on the CNC mill and using a slitting saw or T-slot cutter to rough out the bearing journals? Then you could transfer over to the lathe and do the finishing accurately, having got rid of most of the pain of the offset turning and intermittent cutting. It is a method I intend to try as I think a full camshaft could be done this way too, using a vertical CNC rotary table - possibly with a 'tailstock' to support the free end of the blank at the top (a special fixture would need to be made to achieve this). Then, grinding wheel in the mill spindle to grind the cams with pure X axis movement and synchronized rotation of the rotary axis.



I am going to hold my crank horizontal in the mill to remove as much as i can. 

As far as the cam goes, I'm going to do it the old fashioned way with a fixture in the lathe. I am going to make 3 cams so it will be worth the effort of making the fixture.


----------



## jpeter

I suggest you drill 5 centers in each end (First lay the stock in a tslot and mill a flat on each end for indexing). Next, chuck a piece of bar and turn a point on it for a live center; don't remove it from the chuck. Mount your blanked out piece from the mill between centers and rough out the mains. Then, turn the throws to final size making sure to dress the throws so you've got enough width for the rods. As a final step finish turn the mains. If your careful to not squeeze the crank to tightly you won't need to block the center spaces. Take it then back to the mill and mill away the counterbalance part of the throws. 
I shouldn't even be telling you this cuz your work is as nice as I've seen. You should be telling me how to make a crank.


----------



## kcmillin

Thank a lot Steve, I really appreciate it! 

That does indeed help out.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I suggest you drill 5 centers in each end (First lay the stock in a tslot and mill a flat on each end for indexing). Next, chuck a piece of bar and turn a point on it for a live center; don't remove it from the chuck. Mount your blanked out piece from the mill between centers and rough out the mains. Then, turn the throws to final size making sure to dress the throws so you've got enough width for the rods. As a final step finish turn the mains. If your careful to not squeeze the crank to tightly you won't need to block the center spaces. Take it then back to the mill and mill away the counterbalance part of the throws.
> I shouldn't even be telling you this cuz your work is as nice as I've seen. You should be telling me how to make a crank.



That was my plan. I am waiting for Rick to finish grinding my angle plate so i'll have something to hold the bar on end to drill the centers. I need to drop him a line.


----------



## jpeter

After I have a flat on each end I stand it up in a vise for drilling. I put the flat against the solid jaw. I'm thinking extremely accurate indexing is not really important cuz any inaccuracy in the indexing will be taken out by the turning, but maybe not.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!!

Made some pieces for the carb. The adjustment screws were done using a scrap piece of round stock that was faced and drilled and tapped. Then the screws were inserted and the heads were turned down to fit into the faux float bowl.








Then for the air bleed adjust screw, I took off the chuck and inserted the screw from the back. Then I ran the lathe in reverse and cut the angle from the back so the screw wouldn't unscrew itself from the holder.












It also worked perfect for drilling the fuel adjust screw and inserting the needle.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!!

I made the fuel fitting from brass. I found out that if things weren't done in the correct order, I would break the piece every time due to it's small size. I turned the first diameter and threaded it. Cant do this after the hole is drilled and after the .0625 diameter is cut or the piece would just tear itself apart.







Then the rest of the turning gets done.






Then the piece can be drilled thru and parted off.






I still have not decided if I will cut the hex on them. The Peewee had the same fitting and after the tubing is on, You can't see much of the hex anyway.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello All!!

I cut the fuel passages into the rear bowl today. The passages are 2 holes and a slot.











This hole intersects the first hole. It's a bit of a pain but this way allows for more thread for the fuel fitting.







Now I just need to make the drums and some kind of throttle arm.


----------



## Lakc

Good to see someone got some shop time this weekend.


----------



## kustomkb

Pretty cool carb Steve!

Nice work.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Scratch carburetor off the list. Thanks to Mr. Bob Farr I was able to get a piece of brass to make the barrels. Everything is made except the throttle lever and the gaskets. I think I'm just going to wait until everything is done and make gaskets for everything all at one time.

The screw to the right adjusts the fuel and is adjusted at full throttle. The screw in the center will adjust the air bleed to lean out at idle.


----------



## jpeter

That'll look good on top of that v-8. Gonna have to get the OS off of mine replaced with one of more natural flavor. Hey, why didn't you make two, one for me.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> That'll look good on top of that v-8. Gonna have to get the OS off of mine replaced with one of more natural flavor. Hey, why didn't you make two, one for me.



I made 4 but I buggered one up. I needed 3 so that leaves you with some stock and some free gcode if you want it.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I buggered one up.



All these Brits are a bad influence to our fine midwestern dialect.


----------



## agmachado

As always ... very cool!

:bow:

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> All these Brits are a bad influence to our fine midwestern dialect.



True but the word buggered does make ya laugh!


----------



## Lakc

I find myself using it quite a bit, and getting strange looks from my family :-\


----------



## BlakeMcKee

That carburetor is just awesome!


----------



## stevehuckss396

BlakeMcKee  said:
			
		

> That carburetor is just awesome!



Thanks Blake! I was looking to do something different.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I'm getting real close. All i need to do is part off the ends, cut a flat on the front shaft and thread the rear shaft. I'm not going to do anything fancy like counter weights. I don't want to screw it up.


----------



## jpeter

That's progress. It looks pretty good. That carb looks good too.


----------



## kcmillin

Very Nice Steve!! Those things take some patience. 

Did you use any spacers in the webs when you were machining the throws and mains?

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Did you use any spacers in the webs when you were machining the throws and mains?



No I did not. I got my hands on some real sharp tool bits and found I didn't need to hold the piece very tight at all. Took light cuts and had little to no chatter. If I can get thru tomorrow, I should have a good piece.


----------



## kuhncw

Nice looking crank, Steve. I am amazed you got by without any blocking between the throws. As to cutting out the counterweights, I'm at the same point on a Silver Bullet crank, modified to put the crank pins 180 degrees out of phase. The counter weights look nice, but are they worth a possible mistake? I may follow your lead and leave the crank throws round.

Which steel did you use for your crank?

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> Which steel did you use for your crank?




It's made from 1144 SP. George Britnell recommended it. Cuts real nice.

How is the bullet going? Is there a thread here on your build?


----------



## kuhncw

1144 is a good choice. I used it for my crank as well. This is the first time I've machined 1144 and I like it.

I've not put up a thread yet on the Bullet. I'll do that once I get a bit more done. The block is pretty well done as is the crank. 

Regards,

Chuck


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
The crank looks great. If you want to cut the counterweights it's actually quite simple. 
Make up a fixture plate that replicates the crankcase. The slot for the mains doesn't even need to be round. Make it so about .015 shallower than the diameter of the mains. Make the pockets deep enough for the radius of your counterweights. Drill and tap sets of holes at the webs and make small retainer straps to go across them. Now just bolt in your crank and cut the webs however you want them. I really don't think cutting stock away will affect the balance or centrifugal weight on something this small but it makes it look way cool.
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> If you want to cut the counterweights it's actually quite simple.



After 5 failed attempts, I think this one will stay the way it is. I don't want to screw it up now. Maybe the next one.




			
				metalmad  said:
			
		

> Id be a bit warey of parting off between centers mate



I would never do that. I was going to grab it with a 4 jaw and part off at the lowest speed possible. Done it many times and it works good and I can get it to the correct length this way.


Thanks !!


----------



## ozzie46

Looks good Steve. I just knew you'd get it.  :bow:

 Ron


----------



## stevehuckss396

ozzie46  said:
			
		

> Looks good Steve. I just knew you'd get it. :bow:
> 
> Ron



Thanks Ron!

I think the bulk of my troubles were poorly ground tools. I should build some sort of tool grinder that articulates and I might have better luck in the future.


----------



## jpeter

You use carbide lathe tools? I never had a lot of luck with carbide lathe tools. They never seemed sharp enough to me. I think carbide lathe cutters cut differently than sharp HSS tools. I think they place a much larger load on the work.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> You use carbide lathe tools? I never had a lot of luck with carbide lathe tools. They never seemed sharp enough to me. I think carbide lathe cutters cut differently than sharp HSS tools. I think they place a much larger load on the work.



It depends what i'm doing. If you are able to spin the heck out of the piece then I use carbide. If I need to turn low speed like a crankshaft flopping around offset, then HSS is what I use. Also if I have alot of material to remove then I think the speed is with carbide.


----------



## stevehuckss396

The crankshaft is safe in it's new home. I made the main bearings and installed the shaft. It is a bit snug but it will seat itself in no time. There's going to be a party tonight.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
I'll bet it's like a ton was lifted off of your shoulders. It's frustrating to have to do things twice or more to get the desired results. Although you didn't use spacers when you cut the first one, for safety sake I would recommend using them for the other 2 cranks. It just prevents any longitudinal bending from happening. 
Are you going to start on the other cranks right away or move on to some of the other parts first?
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> I'll bet it's like a ton was lifted off of your shoulders. It's frustrating to have to do things twice or more to get the desired results. Although you didn't use spacers when you cut the first one, for safety sake I would recommend using them for the other 2 cranks. It just prevents any longitudinal bending from happening.
> Are you going to start on the other cranks right away or move on to some of the other parts first?
> George



To be honest G, It didn't bother me all that much. I guess I expected it wouldn't be all that easy. I did the Peewee crank but this one is over 2 inches longer. Now I have to decide weather to make another one piece or do a 5 piece. It would be nice to include that as an option in the drawing set.

I think I'm going to keep on trucking and get one completed. I will continue to make enough parts for 2 complete engines. When the time comes that I feel like doing another crankshaft, I have 2 blanks sitting on the bench ready to go.

Thanks!!


----------



## jpeter

If it turns half way free it must be straight. Along the way I've made a few that weren't so straight. It took me a few to work out the bugs. Good job. Did you mill any of it or turn it all?


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> If it turns half way free it must be straight. Along the way I've made a few that weren't so straight. It took me a few to work out the bugs. Good job. Did you mill any of it or turn it all?




It's just a little sticky. I can turn it with the 1/4 inch shaft it just gets a little tight in one spot. 

I mill about 80% of it. I mill all the centers and rough them. then I mill and finish the throws one at a time. Then go back and finish all the centers.


----------



## steamer

Hi Steve,

Did you use "Collonna" Style bearings?..... th_wwp  ;D


Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Did you use "Collonna" Style bearings?..... th_wwp ;D



Don't know what a Colanna style bearing is.

I made bronze insert style bearings. The second and fourth bearings are just a split ring. The center bearing is a split ring with flanges on both sides to control the end play. I just put 2 pieces in a 4 jaw and made the bearing. I didn't even solder them together. Just mark them some how before you part them off so they can be reassembled the correct way.

Sorry about the lack of photo's but this crankshaft required more than the normal amount of attention.


----------



## steamer

Ron uses them on his Offy.  Their .010" thick pure silver sheet.

He didn't dream them up, but he's made them somewhat famous...... :bow:

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Ron uses them on his Offy. Their .010" thick pure silver sheet.
> 
> He didn't dream them up, but he's made them somewhat famous...... :bow:
> 
> Dave



I can't imagine what that would cost!!!

Bronze is what I used. .0625 thick (.375 ID / .500 OD)


----------



## stevehuckss396

Awesome day in the garage today. I made the flywheel which is nothing more than a big slug of steel. It is bolted onto the crankshaft with a 10-32 nut or i chose to make the optional output shaft. Never know but I might want to power a pencil sharpener or a blender to make margeritas at the next NAMES show.












Started on some pistons. Machined up the blanks and put the grooves in. Then the parts were rotated and the blank was faced to size. I also machined a boss to hold the piston until all the machine work is done. My bore is .6245 so all the blanks are between .6230 - .6235.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Made a few more parts. I couldn't find a cool looking oil drain screw so i made one. I didn't want just a plain hex head screw.







I also made a PCV valve. I'm not to sure it will do anything but what the heck. It is a stem with a cap. In the stem is a 1/8 inch ball and a spring to help seal when the crank case goes negitive.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
I have found that some type of crankcase ventilation is necessary. It's not just for the positive and negative pulses but there is always a little blow by and it helps to keep it from weeping out somewhere else. 
Something else you might consider is some way of measuring the existing oil level, either through a dipstick or a level plug. It makes it a lot easier than guessing how much oil is in the engine.
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> I have found that some type of crankcase ventilation is necessary. It's not just for the positive and negative pulses but there is always a little blow by and it helps to keep it from weeping out somewhere else.
> Something else you might consider is some way of measuring the existing oil level, either through a dipstick or a level plug. It makes it a lot easier than guessing how much oil is in the engine.
> George




I have plans for a dip stick. I have been putting it off but it must be done.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I mounted my chuck on my rotory table and ended up with .0007 runout. I have never been that close before so im trying to get everything done that requires rotation before I take it back off to do some CNC work.


Started on the distributor body. The part started out as a 1-1/5 inch round bar. Made some cuts until I ended up with this.







Then I made the slot between the body and the hold down flange.







The end was drilled thru and the bearing pocked was bored.












Went over to the mill and cut away everything that wasn't hold down clamp. Then the slot was cut for adjustment.












The piece was then put back in the lathe where the top was finished to 1 inch. The recess was bored and the top bearing pocket was formed.







All that is left now is the largest diameter needs to be milled away to form 2 holding tabs to secure the cap onto the distributor.


----------



## jpeter

Does the list of parts to be made ever end? Look'n good. Your soon gonna have spark flying everywhere.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Does the list of parts to be made ever end? Look'n good. Your soon gonna have spark flying everywhere.



Never ends!!

I have Gcode ready to finish the distributor, water pump (2 pcs), water neck, piston bottoms and fixture to cross drill them. It is going to be a fruitful week.


----------



## doc1955

It really sounds like you are having a blast! And creating some good looking parts!!
I'm working on getting a cnc knee mill I can hardly wait!


----------



## stevehuckss396

doc1955  said:
			
		

> It really sounds like you are having a blast! And creating some good looking parts!!
> I'm working on getting a cnc knee mill I can hardly wait!



When you get the mill, that will be a great day. The months after that suck because you don't know how to make it do anything. Once you figure out how to make the mill move it is super fun. It changes the way you think about this hobby. When you can take 2 of your hobbys and blend them together, it makes both even better.

Fun? Oh yeah!!


----------



## doc1955

I have about 25 years of cnc experience so the time to fun curve should be short I hope.
In the beginning of my cnc experience I wrote all the gcode long hand I'll now use Feature cam.
 Keep up the good work and don't have all the fun save some :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Did some CNC work today.

Started making my water neck that will bolt to the intake and connect a hose to the radiator.








Finished the flanges on my distributor. 







Cleaned out the bottom of my pistons.







Made the fixture to cross drill the pistons. Simple thing to keep the slot in the bottom and the wrist pin hole square to each other.


----------



## doc1955

Nice little jig to hold you pistons for drilling!


----------



## Lakc

Gotta love all the special tools. Sometimes they feel like too much of a distraction but they sure do make the job easier and more accurate.


----------



## stevehuckss396

doc1955  said:
			
		

> Nice little jig to hold you pistons for drilling!






			
				Lakc  said:
			
		

> Gotta love all the special tools. Sometimes they feel like too much of a distraction but they sure do make the job easier and more accurate.



The fixture makes the drilling very easy. I can't imagine trying to do all of the pistons any other way.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Finished making a timing pointer so I can keep tabs on where and when the ignition is sparking.












Also made the disk that will hold the magnets to trip the hall sensor.








Finished the water neck. It's hard to tell but I milled a flat and then drilled thru to the center.






Machined up the fitting that the hose will connect to.






Soldered them up from the inside.






Then cleaned out the bottom again with an endmill.


----------



## jpeter

Hey, that manifold with the carb on it looks mighty fine. Fine, so does 80 degrees in the day, 70 at night.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Hey, that manifold with the carb on it looks mighty fine. Fine, so does 80 degrees in the day, 70 at night.



It's always 70F in the garage!!


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> It's always 70F in the garage!!


Best I can do is low 60's in the basement this time of year. If I try to get it any warmer I will burn out the bearings on the gas meter. : 
Parts are looking pretty good. Are you using multiple magnets in the distributor or single magnets and a shutter?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Are you using multiple magnets in the distributor or single magnets and a shutter?



I'm using 8 magnets. Seems wierd but it is alot easier to build and it works well.


----------



## rcfreak177

G'day Steve. 

I see the V8 build is going well, I have just caught up to speed with the thread, (4 pages worth) The picture of the inlet manifold is great I especially like the tiny water inlet you have made from what looks like brass, You have some real skill to be able to make a part that small with such detail. My V8 has made no more real progress at the moment, I have been working flat out lately as the mining industry in Western Australia is going crazy, my time off is consumed making RC jet components for a guy I have bought parts off in the past. I am looking forward to the future to see and hear your V8 running, definitely an inspiration to me please keep up the great work.

Cheers Barry.


----------



## stevehuckss396

SNOW DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Finished my pistons on this fine day off. Finished the fixture by drilling the wrist pin hole. Drilled .032 larger for clearance.







Then it was spot, drill, ream, repeat.








Then the piston was parted off the little boss. Then VERY lightly they were reversed and finished to height.

















I made a few spares in case I made a boo boo. All are useable. They were made from 7075 if anybody is wondering. I had a piece so I used it but 6061 would have been fine also.








I also had time to make the motor mount posts. They are the same as the Peewee mounts. I think I detailed how they were made in that thread.


----------



## Lakc

Glad to see you were productive while the rest of us braved the ice and snow and idiots on the roads this morning.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Glad to see you were productive while the rest of us braved the ice and snow and idiots on the roads this morning.



I had no chance at all. I had 12 inches in my driveway with branches from my neighbors tree on top of that. Plow still has not gone by.


----------



## BlakeMcKee

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I had no chance at all. I had 12 inches in my driveway with branches from my neighbors tree on top of that. Plow still has not gone by.



Guess I should feel guilty for our 75-80 degree week! :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

BlakeMcKee  said:
			
		

> Guess I should feel guilty for our 75-80 degree week! :big:



I wouldn't. I never feel guilty when it's over 100F and we are at 75F. My brother inlaw called from SC laughing. I told him to call back in August.


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I wouldn't. I never feel guilty when it's over 100F and we are at 75F. My brother inlaw called from SC laughing. I told him to call back in August.



 ;D
Oh You speak wisdom my friend....same here!

Dave


----------



## agmachado

Hi Dave,

I don't have words again... better... I have.. wonderful!!!

:bow: :bow:

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Then it was spot, drill, ream, repeat.



Steve, did you change the bits three times for every piston? Would it not be possible to spot them all, then drill them all, the ream them? 

Also, what is holding the piston onto the fixture? 

Kel


----------



## Lakc

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Also, what is holding the piston onto the fixture?
> 
> Kel


I was wondering that myself. Then I thought that if he was drilling exactly on center, it might not need to be more then his left hand.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Steve, did you change the bits three times for every piston? Would it not be possible to spot them all, then drill them all, the ream them?
> 
> Also, what is holding the piston onto the fixture?
> 
> Kel



I did all 3 and then went to the next piston. Once you break thru with the drill bit the piston is captured on the fixture so may as well just ream it before wiggleing it off. Wiggling it off can get to be a little bit of a pain because it dont wiggle much if any at all.

I just slip them on, tap it a few times, and hold them on with my finger. They are snug and don't move at all.


----------



## Spurry

Steve

I have been following the thread from the beginning - absolutely brilliant.

There did not appear to be a backstop in the chuck when you machined the piston tops. Is this something that is of no consequence, or will final machining be carried out after measuring piston heights on a fully assembled engine? (Or with at least the con rod connected to crank and pistons).

Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

Spurry  said:
			
		

> Steve
> 
> I have been following the thread from the beginning - absolutely brilliant.
> 
> There did not appear to be a backstop in the chuck when you machined the piston tops. Is this something that is of no consequence, or will final machining be carried out after measuring piston heights on a fully assembled engine? (Or with at least the con rod connected to crank and pistons).
> 
> Pete



The pistons are all the correct height to the drawing as of right now. Now I will make a test rod from the drawings and check the piston height. If any adjustment needs to be made, the rod will be adjusted to set the final piston height. I'm shooting for flush with the deck height for a compression ratio of 5.335:1


----------



## Spurry

Thanks for that. My comments were based on a procedure I had read about for blueprinting racing engines.

Keep up the good work. 

Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

I decided to have some fun today and make a pattern for some thing I have been thinking of casting. 

I used some lexan that was given to me. I pinned two pieces together so I can cast in sand.

Started roughing it out with a 1/4 inch cutter.


















Then I made some horizontal passes with a 1/8 inch ball nose. Can see more detail coming out.












Then vertical passes .006 on center for a few hours.












Then to the manual mill to remove the extra off the bottom


----------



## Lakc

Here is where you CNC guys start to make us jealous. 
The likely forthcoming helix definately will. :-[


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Here is where you CNC guys start to make us jealous.
> The likely forthcoming helix definately will. :-[



Sorry to disappoint but they will be 3 lobe straight.


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Sorry to disappoint but they will be 3 lobe straight.



No disappointment here Steve.  :big: 

Kel


----------



## Artie

looks like a new manifold coming up... I was wondering a few months ago if someone would try this... I have been an avid reader of this thread since the start way back in June last year, its just stepped up a notch!

Thanks Steve. 

P.s. I am assuming this is scaled for the current build??


----------



## stevehuckss396

Artie  said:
			
		

> looks like a new manifold coming up... I was wondering a few months ago if someone would try this... I have been an avid reader of this thread since the start way back in June last year, its just stepped up a notch!
> 
> Thanks Steve.
> 
> P.s. I am assuming this is scaled for the current build??



The sad thing is I cant modify an existing intake manifold. I will be making a new one. I'm going to carry on with the carburated build. I would like to get that one running. Once the first is running, the second one will get a blower.

I must be out of my mind!!! What the heck am i thinking?


----------



## Foozer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I must be out of my mind!!! What the heck am i thinking?



Thinking what it would sound like with a 180 degree crank design

Robert


----------



## Artie

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I must be out of my mind!!! What the heck am i thinking?



Thinking? OUTSIDE the box my man, outside the box... and Im bloody glad you are.... :bow:


----------



## metalmad

Steve 
u just blew my mind ;D
If I thought I could handle the computer side Id love to go CNC :bow:
Pete


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> The sad thing is I cant modify an existing intake manifold. I will be making a new one. I'm going to carry on with the carburated build. I would like to get that one running. Once the first is running, the second one will get a blower.
> 
> I must be out of my mind!!! What the heck am i thinking?




 Rof} Rof}

OK....lets recap...we spend hours of of time wittling out an untold number of parts to build a miniature V8 engine that by all accounts no one understands what we are going to do with or why ( see the thread recently on "how do you answer the question") and you think putting a blower on it going over the top? 



Dear god man I think its b(*#* Brilliant! Can't wait to see it!

Dave


----------



## jpeter

That blower is a pretty cute idea. How come you're casting it? Seems like you've almost got it done in plastic. Had that been aluminum it'd be done. I've casted a lot of aluminum. The trouble I've had is trying to end up with aluminum that was machinable after it was cast. I always used scrap in the melt and that most likely didn't help. Seemed the casting was always soft and gummy. It didn't lend itself to machining. We used some kind of flux in the melt too to float the dross. Without the flux I just had a mess of pits and slag. And the temperature of the melt was important. I poured about 1300 F. If I got it too hot the melt was ruined, too cold and it wouldn't run. Shrink was an issue too. You need to use large gates so the cavity has a ready supply of molten metal. For sand I used Pextobond I think. It worked well but finding small quantities might be troublesome. Have fun. 
Guys that can crank out good castings one after another know what they're doing.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> That blower is a pretty cute idea. How come you're casting it? Seems like you've almost got it done in plastic. Had that been aluminum it'd be done. I've casted a lot of aluminum. The trouble I've had is trying to end up with aluminum that was machinable after it was cast. I always used scrap in the melt and that most likely didn't help. Seemed the casting was always soft and gummy. It didn't lend itself to machining. We used some kind of flux in the melt too to float the dross. Without the flux I just had a mess of pits and slag. And the temperature of the melt was important. I poured about 1300 F. If I got it too hot the melt was ruined, too cold and it wouldn't run. Shrink was an issue too. You need to use large gates so the cavity has a ready supply of molten metal. For sand I used Pextobond I think. It worked well but finding small quantities might be troublesome. Have fun.
> Guys that can crank out good castings one after another know what they're doing.




I'm casting it because it is just another hobby of mine. Other than all you say above, it should be easy. I have the sand, flux, ect, ect. I'm going to waste a few saturdays pouring them and see if I can get a few good ones. Never know if there might be another club member that builds a V8. Maybe they would like to machine one up.

Did you heat treat the aluminum after you poured it?


----------



## jpeter

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Did you heat treat the aluminum after you poured it?



No heat treat cuz I didn't know how. I had a foundry in my shop and all the students made castings. We machined a few along the way. Used mostly scrap siding for the melt. Before prices skyed people threw that stuff away or give it to me. Anyway, I got pretty good a making a casting. It was the metallurgy, shrink and things like that that I never got very good at. We had no facility for making cores either which I think would be important for something like what you are making. It'll be fun to see the results. 

I've had opportunities along the way to visit foundries and see results of work done by folks who actually know how to ram up a mold and get all the other things right. It just makes me realize how little I know about casting aluminum.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I use 6061 for the melt and after a week or so sitting around, It is hard as heck again. I'll bring the pattern to the next meeting. Will you be back by then.


----------



## jpeter

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I use 6061 for the melt and after a week or so sitting around, It is hard as heck again. I'll bring the pattern to the next meeting. Will you be back by then.


I'm back and I'll be looking forward to seeing it. It looks great. Did you cnc the curves. If not how'd you come up with the coordinates for the curves. I suppose a spread sheet would lay them or or maybe a cad program. I'm curious.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I'm back and I'll be looking forward to seeing it. It looks great. Did you cnc the curves. If not how'd you come up with the coordinates for the curves. I suppose a spread sheet would lay them or or maybe a cad program. I'm curious.



CamBam did the whole thing for me. I just opened the file, defined the stock, told it what tool and it knows where.


----------



## jpeter

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> CamBam did the whole thing for me. I just opened the file, defined the stock, told it what tool and it knows where.


Cool. Never heard of it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Scratch motor mounts off the list. 

Couldn't find any 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/8 inch aluminum angle so i had to make some.








Then the back was cut off to form the tabs.







Used a radius cutter to round over the nose of the tabs. 







Spotted, drilled, and counterbored the holes to bolt it to the motor.







Rotated the piece forward and drilled the tabs.







Again the back was milled out of it.












And we have the mount complete. I now have to match drill the oil pan and bolt them on.


----------



## steamer

Looking great Steve!  When ya going to mount it up? ;D

Great build bud, Are you going to publish this...( Sorry probably been asked...probably by me too...my brain is mush today)

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> When ya going to mount it up?
> 
> Are you going to publish this.




Thanks Steamer!! I just finished mounting them.

What do you mean by publish? Make plans available?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Not alot of progress but progress none the less. The oil pan is offically done. I drilled the holes for the motor mounts. I also added a hole with a pipe plug to allow for checking the oil level. Now both of the boys are standing proudly on there legs. I mocked one up just to get a feel for how big they will be. SMALL!!


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Thanks Steamer!! I just finished mounting them.
> 
> What do you mean by publish? Make plans available?



YES! ;D

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> YES! ;D
> 
> Dave




I will make drawings if it kills me.


----------



## metalmad

Well done Steve
Its my ambition to work up to a V8.
but Im not there yet either in skill or tools 
Pete


----------



## kuhncw

Looking good, Steve. I like your design for the engine supports.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks men. 

That is the same support system I used for the Peewee.


----------



## kd7fhg

Looking at your work, than at mine, makes me want to sale my lathe and mill for scrap..... great looking engins. 
Rex


----------



## doc1955

Beautiful!!! They look nice, nice job! :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## Dave G

Hi Steve, I've been watching your build for a while now and it's been very impressive. Something tells me it's going to be louder at the Names show this year. Keep up the good work, Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Dave G  said:
			
		

> Something tells me it's going to be louder at the Names show this year.



That would be nice but i'm not sure I will have them ready by then. Still alot to do!

Thanks Dave!


----------



## deere_x475guy

Awesome work as always Steve...I am looking forward to seeing you at N.A.M.E.S this year...and take a look at the twins.


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I will make drawings if it kills me.




Though I admire your dedication...it would kinda defeat the purpose wouldn't it?  ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Though I admire your dedication...it would kinda defeat the purpose wouldn't it? ;D



Why, I don't need them anymore! Haha!

I think what i'm going to do is break it down into 3 groups. The engine of course, the carb, and the blower.

Engine: This would be the drawings to build the complete V8 without the carb. There would be notes along the way pointing out if certian parts are carbureted version only. For instance, the intake manifold would be completely different for the blown version. 

Carb: Some might want to build the engine and use an RC carb with an adapter of there own design. I think breaking out the carb drawings would make it a few bucks cheaper. Also there may be a few who want to build this carb for an existing engine so why buy all the drawings for just the carb

Blower: These would be for the blower. This set would contain all the parts that are needed and all the modifications to the V8 parts. I am going to see about getting the castings done and sell them with the drawings. I might also supply the Gcode for cutting the 3 lobe rotors. 


This is all still subject to change. I'm still trying to figure this all out.


----------



## Lakc

I cant wait to see those rotors. I planned on working early this morning but my power is out and I cant even get a cup of coffee. Steam and lineshafts would be more dependable then DTEenergy.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I started some things today. I normally dont show alot of the CNC stuff but this was just cool. Grabbed a piece of the acrylic that was used for the blower pattern. 

1/16 drill bit







#38 drill bit.







3/32 endmill







1/8 end mill







The whole thing took less than 10 minutes.















Oh yeah, I also started on the water pump housing.


----------



## Lakc

Too cool. Whats the secret to keeping the acrylic from melting?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Whats the secret to keeping the acrylic from melting?




I have never had problems with it. Why, What did you hear?


----------



## Lakc

Must just be dull cutters then. Once we used a piece of bulletproof glass taken out of a party store and used it to make a 2 inch riser for an Edelbrock STR-12 manifold. It kept getting gummy and melting to the cutter. Same story any time I have tried to saw it too, must just be that black cloud following me around. :-[


----------



## metalmad

Wow love the dizzy
Pete ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Must just be dull cutters then. Once we used a piece of bulletproof glass taken out of a party store and used it to make a 2 inch riser for an Edelbrock STR-12 manifold. It kept getting gummy and melting to the cutter. Same story any time I have tried to saw it too, must just be that black cloud following me around. :-[




Ya got me! The only time i ever had trouble with it is when I tried to polish to a clear finish. If the RPM's are too high and the real fine sand paper loads up it tends to smear. Need to use a light touch. I usually cut it about the same feed and speed as aluminum except my cut depth is about double. I do use a sharp HSS cutter.


----------



## jpeter

Pretty nice looking cap. 
Acrylic and polycarb aren't the same stuff. I too once tried milling polycarb bullet proof glass. Got it done but the cut was pretty nasty because the cutter melted the plastic. Don't know about acrylic althought I've cut some with wood cutting tools. It seemed to cut ok but dulled the tools pretty quickly.


----------



## LongRat

Love the parts Steve. The CNC + holding tags route is how I make a lot of my parts.
On the subject of acrylic, the number one consideration is the type of acrylic material you are cutting. If it is cast material, there is a lot more crystallinity and a higher melting point. This machines very nicely. If you are machining extruded acrylic (cheaper) it is a LOT more likely to melt into a ball and clog the cutter. Visibly though the 2 plastics look the same. Cutters should be razor sharp and either 2 or 1-flutes if you can find them. Anything to get the clearance for those chips will reduce the chance of melting.


----------



## stevehuckss396

LongRat  said:
			
		

> If it is cast material, there is a lot more crystallinity and a higher melting point. This machines very nicely. If you are machining extruded acrylic (cheaper) it is a LOT more likely to melt into a ball and clog the cutter. Visibly though the 2 plastics look the same.




This must be cast because it machines very nice. The sheet is 12 X 36 X 1-1/4 thick. If I had to buy it, $$$$$$$$


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> This must be cast because it machines very nice. The sheet is 12 X 36 X 1-1/4 thick. If I had to buy it, $$$$$$$$


Yeah, thats way better results then I ever had.
Since I had mcmaster open in another window, its $144.86 and it specifies as cast. ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

Finished the caps this morning. Spending the rest of the day making drawings.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

Very, very nice again!!!

More... more pictures, please!!! th_wwp

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

Alexandre Machado  said:
			
		

> More... more pictures, please!!! th_wwp
> Alexandre




Thanks Alexandre! Right now I'm sick as a dog but when I'm feeling better I'll get out in the garage and try to do something worth photographing.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

Is something serious ? I hope that your health is reestablished soon. 

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## T70MkIII

Get well soon, Steve.


----------



## steamer

Hi Steve,

Did you get that 48 hour thing that's been going around....Damn that thing was NASTY!

Hope your feeling better....and you do feel better eventually....really. ;D

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> 
> Did you get that 48 hour thing that's been going around....Damn that thing was NASTY!
> 
> Hope your feeling better....and you do feel better eventually....really. ;D
> 
> Dave




Thanks for the well wishes!

I had a chest/throat thing going for about a week. Could not get on top of it until Wed when I went to the doc and got some anti's. Starting to get better now. Should be good to go in a few more days. Never made it into the lungs or anything.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,


I saw the water pump and I was thinking about how is the course of water through the cylinders... Could you explain how this will work ?

How to make all the water circulate for all cylinders... Is possible that water arrive warmer in the cylinders brings or this is not relevant ? 

The pump pulls water to out of the engine or push to in ?

Needs to circulate water in the cylinder head?

Thank you,

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

The pump will pull water from the bottom of the radiator and push it into the odd bank of cylinders. It will cross in the back thru the bellhousing adapter and come back thru the even bank of cylinders. Then water will be forced up thru the head, into the manifold, and out the water neck and back into the radiator.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Not much to report. I made a test rod to check my rod length. The rods are 1.350 C to C so I made a piece with the 2 holes at 1.350. Then the piece was milled to at least 1/2 way thru the holes and cleared to miss the cylinder walls. The rod was set on the crankshaft and a wrist pin was inserted into a piston. The piston was then set into the cylinder and the piston brought to top dead center.

Cyl #1 +.009 ( piston out of the bore .009)
Cyl #7 +.007
Cyl #2 +.012
Cyl #8 +.010

So with this data I can see that my decks from front to back are less than .003 out and the difference between the 2 decks are .003 out. I'll take that any day.I am going to make my rods 1.340 and if the #2 piston sticks out .002, no harm done.

Maybe this week will be spent making rods and bearings.


----------



## jpeter

Lookn' good. What compression ratio you shooting for? Gonna have it running by NAMES?


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Lookn' good. What compression ratio you shooting for? Gonna have it running by NAMES?




5.5:1 and NO!


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your informations about the water... 

Which fuel do you want to use?

To use gasoline, the ratio would be higher, right?

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

Alexandre Machado  said:
			
		

> To use gasoline, the ratio would be higher, right?



5.5:1 is plenty good for gas. I have a 1928 Model "A" in the garage with 4.22:1 and it runs just fine.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> So with this data I can see that my decks from front to back are less than .003 out and the difference between the 2 decks are .003 out. I'll take that any day.I am going to make my rods 1.340 and if the #2 piston sticks out .002, no harm done.


Thats certainly very close and tight tolerances, but dont rule out the crankpins being a little off. Thats traditionally (full size) where the largest part of the compression ratio variance comes from. Even full size, them crankshafts are hard. 
You can make each rod a custom length fit to each cylinder on those "absolutely positively gotta have every last horsepower" type of motors as well. But here I am giving away my drag racing secrets.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> rule out the crankpins being a little off.



That's why I check with a test rod. This way the actual length from the crankshaft to the deck is factored in. .003 won't affect much of anything. Peewee was .015 from the shortest to the longest so I split the differance and no way can anybody tell. I'll take .003 any day!!


----------



## jpeter

Interesting stuff. I've almost got my crank beded. I'm gonna check the crank once its in place just to see how close eact throw is. If its a long way off I keep it to myself, otherwise I'll brag about it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Still trying to get over this cold so I figured, work on something easy. My friend went to the local cabinet shop and asked about some corian counter top material. When the guy found out what it was for he gave up a piece that was cut out to install the sink. This piece was plenty big enough for me to get 2 pieces 7-1/2 X 12 for the display bases. After drilling the holes that will mount the engine, gas tank, and radiator, I used a corner rounding bit to ease the top corners. The big holes are threaded and will allow me to secure the 2 pipe stands that will pass the sensor wire and coil wire from the ignition.

I like this stuff for 2 reasons. First it resists gas and oil very well, and second, because it looks like a miniature terrazzo floor.


----------



## Lakc

Looking good! ;D


----------



## gbritnell

Outstanding Steve!!!!!
gbritnell


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Outstanding Steve!!!!!
> gbritnell



Thanks Lakc & George! After all this, hope it runs. I'm getting that nervous feeling that you get when you make it past the half way point!!


----------



## kcmillin

Very nice indeed Steve. Well done.

The "I need it for my Miniature V8" line can be quite a persuasion tool when it comes to getting what you want. :big:

Kel


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, what an excellent job you have done! :bow: :bow: :bow:

I am totally jealous at this point because I designed a very similar engine in Autodesk Inventor so time ago that I am planning to build.

Your bore and stroke dimensions are close to mine as well .... bah humbug!

I wish you well with the project and I have read all from the first post to this. It has been a very interesting journey so far and I'm just as eager as everyone else to see the completed engine up and running. I don't think you will have too many problems getting it running, if the quality of your work is any indication.

It is also encouraging to know that my own design is feasible and machinable even though I'm still collecting tooling and materials, not to mention skills, I figure, if you can do it so can I .... maybe .... lol

If you end up offering plans for this engine, please put my name on the list :big:

Looking forward to the next chapter, keep 'em coming!  :big:

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> I am totally jealous at this point because I designed a very similar engine in Autodesk Inventor so time ago that I am planning to build. Your bore and stroke dimensions are close to mine as well .
> It is also encouraging to know that my own design is feasible and machinable even though I'm still collecting tooling and materials, not to mention skills, I figure, if you can do it so can I .... maybe .... lol



I would like to see some of your models someday to see how other people think. I have another club member who has a V8 of this size running. Jim Peters "Victory V8" is almost exactly the same dimensions. It's great to see how he did some things and find myself wishing I did mine that way. Some things I like my way better. I think looking at others methods can make my future designs better. I don't mind sharing my methods if they will help make things better for someone else.

Cheers!!


----------



## jpeter

Thanks for the kind words. I'm finding tough though to work with the engine setting around the shop cuz all I do is play with it. I'm gonna have to move it to the basement or somewhere so I can get some other stuff done. I intended this post to be longer but I'm breaking it off early so I can start the v8...again.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I think looking at others methods can make my future designs better. I don't mind sharing my methods if they will help make things better for someone else.


Thats what were all here for, hopefully to give as well as take!
I found out your club meetings are the same night as my radio club, which puts me at hazel park elementary school. What time do your meetings usually wrap up?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> What time do your meetings usually wrap up?



Meetings start at 7:00PM which means 7:15 and run to 8:30ish and then we gab a little and I usually get out about 10:30 - 11:00PM. Unless it runs late.


----------



## Lakc

Sounds good, will definately have to do some planning, and hope google maps doesnt re-order the lettering on the campus.  I was afraid if I showed up and had to ask, nobody would know what the S building was.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Sounds good, will definately have to do some planning, and hope google maps doesnt re-order the lettering on the campus.  I was afraid if I showed up and had to ask, nobody would know what the S building was.




Click the "Contact Us" tab for a map. Click on the "P" to get the lot number. I park in lot 11

http://www.metrodetroitmetalworkers.com/


----------



## stevehuckss396

Finally felt good enough to get out and start some rods. I make the rods in gangs instead of one at a time. I guess it is just faster for me because I can work on 5 at a time. I made my plates for the caps and the rods from some 3/16 plate aluminum. 6061 to be exact. 








I start out by drilling the rod plate so the holes can be taped 2-56







Then I drill the cap plate with the clearance holes. The center hole is for oil to feed the bearing when the rod slaps the oil in the pan.







The plate is then flipped 180 degrees and the bottom is milled to shape to form the tail on the end of the cap.







Finally I used my 90 degree endmill to complete the shape of the tail. I'm hoping the oil will be forced thru the tail and into the rod bearing. 












Next I need to tap the holes in the rod plate and assemble the 2 plates.


----------



## jpeter

I like the dipper idea. Looks like it outta work just fine.


----------



## Lakc

Thats a tried and true method, maybe it calls for an acrylic oil pan.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> maybe it calls for an acrylic oil pan.



I am not making another oil pan. No how, No way!


----------



## stevehuckss396

I spent an hour tapping holes today. Got my plates bolted together. Drilled my holes in the plates. All I need to do is cut the rods out. I think i'm going to CNC this part. Not because I have to but because its fun!


----------



## Lakc

Slitting operations always seem to come with a pucker factor so I understand why you would CNC it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Finished the rods today. I used the CNC machine to cut the rod's profile while fixtured.


The rod plate was put on the fixture. The bushings extend thru the rod and into the fixture so the screws are not relied upon to hold the rods in place.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

Very cool !!!

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

Today was fun time in the garage. Did nothing I was supposed to do and everything I wanted to do. I made an adapter plate that will go onto the intake manifold for the blower. The stock intake manifold will not work for this so I will eventually make another one.







Then I made this. It's a long way from being done. Took 7-1/2 hours to make this from a 2-1/2 X 3 inch block.







Then I made the adapter for the duel carb. Screwed up the ears on the flange that the carb sits on. Should have been rotated 90 degrees. I originally had a single carb facing forward. When I went duel carb I forgot they only fit side saddle. Should be fixed in the plans.












That was my day!


----------



## kvom

What format did you export (assume from Alibre) into CamBam? Any editing to do in CB? What size endmill(s)?


----------



## metalmad

Hi Steve
as always your post excites me
I can not wait till you get the blown version running :bow:
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

kvom  said:
			
		

> What format did you export (assume from Alibre) into CamBam? Any editing to do in CB? What size endmill(s)?



I exported to STL and bammed it out. Nothing to do in cam bam. I had to hang a 1/8 ball mill out 1-1/2 inches so it got tore up some on the side but i'm going to sand blast the case so it should hide some of it.

I'm happy.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Today was fun time in the garage. Did nothing I was supposed to do and everything I wanted to do.


I have done a lot of that lately and now its catching up to me.  It does look like time well spent, looking real good.


----------



## rcfreak177

G'day Steve,

I like those little carby's you have made, They look very similar to the Holly 1150 Dominator's the old school drag cars run. I hear what you are saying about the 7 hours or so to machine the supercharger housings, I have done a test piece on the ones I am making which I scaled down to 25% of my finished size, They took about the same amount of time using a 1/8" ball nose cutter.
I think I might use my 4th axis indexer when I do the full sized ones. Milling the rotors will be a challenge. Have you got to that point yet?

Baz.


----------



## stevehuckss396

rcfreak177  said:
			
		

> Milling the rotors will be a challenge. Have you got to that point yet?



I have the Gcode done. I need to borrow a 4th so I can give it a try. Coded it by hand to cut at the proper z height every 1 degree. It will take a while cutting but less hand work when they are done.


----------



## awJCKDup

Neat, Neat, Neat---the craftsmanship on this site never ceases to amaze me!
I want one----I want one!
Great job Steve, keep it up.

John


----------



## rcfreak177

G'day Steve,

You are welcome to borrow my indexer if you like, but you will have to drop over to Australia and pick it up. Would be a good run for the new beemer.


----------



## stevehuckss396

rcfreak177  said:
			
		

> G'day Steve,
> 
> You are welcome to borrow my indexer if you like, but you will have to drop over to Australia and pick it up. Would be a good run for the new beemer.



I think I have one i can borrow. I am not ready for rotors yet but when I am, I'll figure out something!!


----------



## stevehuckss396




----------



## nfk

Wow. I think i could fit that very same blower on my old honda accord! (1980!)
Your engine will look amazing whit those two carbs and the blower!
Cant wait so hear it!

Norberto


----------



## Lakc

Are those 2-56 or 4-40 threaded holes for the end caps? How did you keep the bores straight? Last time I tried overlapping holes they wanted to move towards each other.


----------



## doc1955

That is a sweet looking piece you have there!
Can't wait to see it rev'en up.
Very nice!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Are those 2-56 or 4-40 threaded holes for the end caps? How did you keep the bores straight? Last time I tried overlapping holes they wanted to move towards each other.



The screws in the base are #2-56. The end caps are #0-80's

I bored it on the mill using a boring head and a very stout boring bar.


----------



## rcfreak177

I think I have one i can borrow. I am not ready for rotors yet but when I am, I'll figure out something!!



G'day Steve, my dry sense of humor is coming out, I was only having a lend of you,
Please don't be offended, according to Google maps Detroit Michigan is 25,422 km from my location and approx 55 days driving via the North Pacific ocean, Don't know about driving across that but.

Cheers Baz.


----------



## stevehuckss396

rcfreak177  said:
			
		

> G'day Steve, my dry sense of humor is coming out, I was only having a lend of you,
> Please don't be offended, according to Google maps Detroit Michigan is 25,422 km from my location and approx 55 days driving via the North Pacific ocean, Don't know about driving across that but.



Sounds good! I'll see you in 55 days then.


----------



## coopertje

Hi Steve,

Compliments for your build, its a pleasure to follow along. Very nice job done with the 3D milling on the blower housing, its clear that you have the CNC materiel in your fingers and perfectly under control!  :bow:  :bow:

Regards Jeroen


----------



## stevehuckss396

coopertje  said:
			
		

> Very nice job done with the 3D milling on the blower housing



I just learned how to do 3D toolpaths. The guys at the CamBam forum talked me thru it and gave some tips. I'm happy with it but the next one will be better. It's easier than you think.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Made a few more pieces.

Made the rear cover, front cover, and the gear case for the blower.


----------



## gbritnell

Aw c'mon Steve, you're breaking my heart. I really don't want to have to build a supercharger for any of my engines! I know it's been said by others and me but this is first rate stuff. 
On a full sized supercharger they use helical gears to keep everything tight. Being that they are labor intensive to make you might consider this option. When I did a lot of motorcycle repair I found the cam gears on a Yamaha had split teeth, about 2:1. The narrow part of the gear was loaded again the wide part of the gear with some compression springs fixed radially between the two. Once pressed into the mating gear this would virtually eliminate and lash between the teeth. Have you figured out how you're going to gear yours?
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Have you figured out how you're going to gear yours?
> George




I'm going to use spur gears. 64 pitch with lots of teeth. I doubt the blower will see much in the way of a load. My Chevy never made any boost until the throttle was wide open.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I'm going to use spur gears. 64 pitch with lots of teeth. I doubt the blower will see much in the way of a load. My Chevy never made any boost until the throttle was wide open.


More teeth on the crank pulley  Looking good there!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> More teeth on the crank pulley



I think G was talking about gearing the rotors together. The drive will be a .080 pitch belt. 40 tooth crank, 32 tooth blower just like my Chevy.


----------



## Lakc

Yes he was  I was talking about your lack of low rpm boost 
The spring loaded gears George was talking about, I have not seen used on a camshaft before. They are real common on instruments and backlash sensitive things, like ham radio variable capacitor drives, and often used in automotive for stopping things like neutral gear rattle in manual transmissions. If the spring tension was greater then the side force on the lash adjuster from the valve spring, it would work like anti backlash, otherwise, I suspect, it is mostly for noise control.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> I was talking about your lack of low rpm boost




Didn't lack boost at low RPM. Lacked boost when the throttle was closed. Made good boost for a street car @ 10.5 Lbs. Torque curve looked like a box. Over 900FtLbs from 2500 - 7200 Rpm. I suspect it was making boost at low RPM. Hahahhaa!!!


I don't see myself holding the throttle wide open on the model engine so the rotors should see minimum loading. It's mostly for looks but it would be cool if I can get it to whine, love the sound of a roots!!


----------



## Lakc

10.5/14.7=.714 equals a 70% larger engine, not shabby at all.  There are scaling factors that work against model sized compressors, although I cannot remember all the specifics at the moment. I seem to recall the Hodgson radial, although fairly large itself, the compressor section merely acts as a diffuser, not providing any excess manifold pressure above ambient. Ill put that on my list to talk to Lee about it at names, along with that tailstock for the Sherline rotary table I wanted... Now its bedtime, hopefully we dont have another icy drive to work in the AM.


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Steve, that looks great. Maybe I missed it, but how did you make the bores for the rotors? Boring head, or lathe? I hope to make it to NAMES this year to see it.

Aerodynamic compressors have problems with scale. Positive displacement types, including Roots, scale well except that gaps and clearances are impossible to scale.


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> Maybe I missed it, but how did you make the bores for the rotors? Boring head, or lathe?
> 
> Positive displacement types, including Roots, scale well except that gaps and clearances are impossible to scale.



Was bored on the mill with a boring head.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I spent today putting the final touches on the covers. I have all the gear pockets and bearing pockets cut into the rear cover and gear case. Then I had the idea to make the case look like the one I used to have so i engraved BDS in the gear case. Blower Drive Service builds some of the finest blowers available.







Then I made the drive snout.












I'm taking tomorrow off!!


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Was bored on the mill with a boring head.



Well I'm glad you weren't bored will you were boring with the boring head....

da do tish!  Thankyou I'm here all week....try the meatloaf.

Like the blower Steve!

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Was bored on the mill with a boring head.




Steamer!! I just re-read this. Sounds like i was standing in front of the mill with a head that was boring, bored out of my mind!!


----------



## metalmad

nothing Boring here


----------



## Lakc

I will resist the temptation to take this conversation into the gutter and just say, "dang that looks good"


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Steamer!! I just re-read this. Sounds like i was standing in front of the mill with a head that was boring, bored out of my mind!!




 ;D :big:

Isn't this machining thing complicated!!!

Really though....Damn fine job my friend....Looking great! can't wait to hear it!
Make sure you use suitably whiny square cut teeth on the blower drive now!
Whooooopahhh! da da dum, da da dum, da da dum.  Alright it's been a loooong day!
Dave


----------



## jpeter

Got that wow factor. Gonna be fun to see it.


----------



## bronson

The supercharger looks amazing. How many hours of machining was that?


----------



## stevehuckss396

bronson  said:
			
		

> The supercharger looks amazing. How many hours of machining was that?



About 10 so far


----------



## stevehuckss396

I had my pulley stock show up in the mail yesterday so there went my day off. The new day off is tomorrow.

I made this little fixture to hold the pulley on center. The tail section is exactly 3/4 so it can be chucked in a collet. The bore is snug as a bug. I put a 4-40 screw in the side to hold the stock from spinning. Not sure if i even needed it. I had a real wrestling match going when I tried to get the finished gear out.








After the slug of pulley was in the holder, the stock was drilled and reamed. Then the inside was bored out to diameter. Then the entire fixture was taken over to the rotary table for drilling. Then the piece was removed and deburred. Easy enough. The most important thing i think would be to hit the center of the pulley OD. I would think the belt will have a hard time staying on in the pulleys were wobbling. 






Looks mean as he!!


----------



## arnoldb

> Looks mean as he!!


Now ain't that the truth - for the entire project and not just the blower :bow:

Great job Steve Thm:


----------



## stevehuckss396

The drawings for the engine are completed. I don't know how good they are. There are 67 pages. The drawings do not cover the supercharger or any of it's components. I think i'm going to complete the blower drawings and offer them seperate. Most folks wont want to build the blower so It'll save them a few bucks.


----------



## kustomkb

That's a super nice job you have done, designing and machining your engine, Steve.

It looks awesome! Can't wait to see it finished.

Please mark me down for a set of blown drawings, thanks.


----------



## Lakc

Thats looking awesome!


----------



## Drei

Hi,

I have a question about the blower assmelby. I the blower compresses air where does the air goes; i mean i think it goes in the carborator right but the thing is, if the in the carb is building up pressure the fuel wouldnt be pushed back to the tank? Or is it an open system that means that the pressure is not all directed into the carb but can also by to atmosphere?

thanks 
Andrei


----------



## lordedmond

crabs on top of blower


it goes carbs --- blower ---- cylinder ------ bang -------p o w e r


----------



## Drei

so the blower sucks and copresses air plus fuel from the carb and keep compressing it continuesly..right

Andrei


----------



## ref1ection

Glad to hear you are making plans available for your engine. I've been watching this develop for some time and enjoyed the whole process. Have you thought of a price yet and when do you think they'd be available?

Ray


----------



## stevehuckss396

Drei  said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I have a question about the blower assmelby. I the blower compresses air where does the air goes; i mean i think it goes in the carborator right but the thing is, if the in the carb is building up pressure the fuel wouldnt be pushed back to the tank? Or is it an open system that means that the pressure is not all directed into the carb but can also by to atmosphere?
> 
> thanks
> Andrei



The air is sucked thru the carb and compressed under the blower between the blower and the valves.


----------



## Lakc

Which does bring to mind a question, do you need a blow off plate?


----------



## stevehuckss396

ref1ection  said:
			
		

> Glad to hear you are making plans available for your engine. I've been watching this develop for some time and enjoyed the whole process. Have you thought of a price yet and when do you think they'd be available?
> 
> Ray



They will be available when It fires up and I know for sure it works.

Carb only $10
Engine, carb, display base, gas tank, radiator, etc!  $50
Blower, drawings for the complete conversion     $30

Does this sound fair? I don't want to gouge anybody but i do have a ton of work into them. I don't know!! I really don't know.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Which does bring to mind a question, do you need a blow off plate?




I'm thinking no. How often will the engine see a load and open throttle. If i put it on a mini dyno, then I would say yes.


----------



## mickieb49

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> They will be available when It fires up and I know for sure it works.
> 
> Carb only $10
> Engine, carb, display base, gas tank, radiator, etc! $50
> Blower, drawings for the complete conversion    $30
> 
> Does this sound fair? I don't want to gouge anybody but i do have a ton of work into them. I don't know!! I really don't know.



 I for sure would be very interested for that price, running or not running, it wouldn't matter. Definately put me down for a set.
 Loving this thread
Mick


----------



## ref1ection

Prices sound fair to me as well. Count me in for a set.

Ray


----------



## steamer

Sounds very fair to me!




			
				stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> They will be available when It fires up and I know for sure it works.
> 
> Carb only $10
> Engine, carb, display base, gas tank, radiator, etc!  $50
> Blower, drawings for the complete conversion     $30
> 
> Does this sound fair? I don't want to gouge anybody but i do have a ton of work into them. I don't know!! I really don't know.


----------



## ruzzie

Sounds fair 

I have just started making the V4 by Jerry Howell and I think a blower sitting on it would look awesome. 
So when the blower plans are ready for sale let us know.

Will take so pics of the V4 construction and post them for all to see

Cheers 
Paul


----------



## T70MkIII

Fair in deed! I'll take a set too (probably without blower at this stage).

Awesome job, Steve, and I can't wait to hear her run.


----------



## Jim E

Steve,
Maybe you might consider another package (with an extra charge of course) that would include G-codes for the parts you used CNC on. I know everyone doesn't use the same post, but I'm sure it could be tweekable. Something to consider. Thanks for the awesome coverage of your build.

Jim E


----------



## stevehuckss396

I made some more stuff today. I made the balancer/fan belt pulley. I would have liked to make it look more real but I had to fit the clutch bearing in the piece.








Then I made a special one. The only difference is the nose is turned down to a much smaller diameter and the hole pattern is drilled into the piece to hold the crank pulley on.







Then I made the fan belt pulleys. They also recieve the fan and I will make the fancy cover like all the hot rod guy's have. The long one gets the fan out in front of the blower belt.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Jim E  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> Maybe you might consider another package (with an extra charge of course) that would include G-codes for the parts you used CNC on. I know everyone doesn't use the same post, but I'm sure it could be tweekable. Something to consider. Thanks for the awesome coverage of your build.
> 
> Jim E




Sounds like more work. I need to focus on getting these drawings up to a high standard.


----------



## deere_x475guy

Darn Steve...everytime I check you just keep making my mouth drop. Very nice work!


----------



## chrispare

DeereGuy  said:
			
		

> Darn Steve...everytime I check you just keep making my mouth drop. Very nice work!



no kiddibg what he does in a day/week would take me a month. beautiful work I must say.


----------



## stevehuckss396

MAJOR set back today. I increased the size of the rod journals to make the crankshaft stronger. Then I made the big end of the rod a little wider to fit the bigger bearing. I made a bearing and inserted the rod to see how things fit and CRASH!!! Bolts in the rod hit the block and the cylinder liner.

CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The drawings are fixed. I think i'm going to try to put button head screws in the rods but i'm not sure i can get them tight enough. I changed a few dimensions for the block, oil pan, and cylinder liner so this problem won't happen to anybody else. 

This is why I don't wan't release drawings until i'm done.

Cheers!!


----------



## kcmillin

Thats a bummer Steve. 

I just had the same thing happen today. I finally got the rotating assembly done on my inline 4, put it all together and the rod cap screws hit the oil pan. Luckily It was a tiny amount and a quick cut on the mill solved the problem. Strange we both had the same problem on the same day.

Kel


----------



## mu38&Bg#

I draw in Solidworks where I can check for interferences, but it still worries me when I build something. Don't let it slow you down.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I think i'm going to try to put button head screws in the rods but i'm not sure i can get them tight enough.


Loctite is your friend.  I have adulterated all manners of SHCS to make them fit, you can even turn them into conventional cap screws if needed. I am sure you will figure this out. :bow:


----------



## Bob Farr

Doh! But only ONCE :



			
				stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> *** Bolts in the rod hit the block and the cylinder liner.
> 
> CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ***


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> I draw in Solidworks where I can check for interferences, but it still worries me when I build something. Don't let it slow you down.




I do the same thing but once one thing gets changed, everything snowballs. Funny thing is when I went back and looked, It was hitting a little bit I just missed it.

It will be fixed tomorrow.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Strange we both had the same problem on the same day.



I wish we both fixed it on the same day. Tomorrow will be fix the block day.


----------



## jpeter

I'm traveling, otherwise I'd be in the shop. Sometimes things just don't fall into place. Monday I started a distributor base. Had it looking good then drilled it 4-40. Damn. Should have been for 2-56. So start again. Screwed up the second one too. Quit for the day.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Got all my rework done today. I opened up the pockets in the oil pan and the block. I also cut another .0625 off the bottom of the cylinder liners. All went well.

Then I decided it was time to drill the block and intake for the distributor hole. I mocked up the entire engine including gaskets for this one.

 I made up a temporary crankshaft because I didn't have the bearings to make up a temporary camshaft. They were both bored in the same setup so I'm sure they are parallel.







Then I used the shaft to find the center of the bore 







Then I found the front of the block.







Then the hole was drilled thru the manifold and block.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I figured I had time for some more today so I jumped on the water pump. I made a collet that fit the OD of the gear stock nice and snug.







I parted 5 blanks off the stock and inserted them into the collet for some facing, drilling and reaming.







Then I pressed a piece of 1/8 thru the gear.







Water pump has a minor snug spot but i suspect it will wear itself in when put in service.


----------



## Lakc

That spur gear stock sure comes in handy, looks great.


----------



## jpeter

Sure looks good. That'd be a good way for making an oil pump for putting in the crankcase.
I thought though water pumps were impeller types for the volume?


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Sure looks good. That'd be a good way for making an oil pump for putting in the crankcase.
> I thought though water pumps were impeller types for the volume?




The water pump on the Peewee is a gear pump and it moves tons of water.


----------



## doc1955

Very nice looking pump! :bow:


----------



## Lakc

That looks like 14.5 degree PA pinion stock. I used 20PA pinion stick on my oil pump, the gears are a little stronger, but I am guessing the added volume at the root probably makes a higher volume pump.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve !

As ever... very cool !!!

:bow:

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## jpeter

Does the fit have to be pretty good?


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Does the fit have to be pretty good?




No, not really. Unlike an oil pump, it doesn't need to build pressure. All it does is create a circulation.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Sorry no progress to report on the build. I did get the last of the drawings created for the blower. Again they will be available when the project is completed. 25 pages.

Cheers!!


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

You're forgiven... sharing this beautiful draw! :big:

Really very cool!

:bow:

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## nfk

no man, i refuse to follow your thread anymore...
i`m sooo green that people is starting to notice it...
Your work so far is AMAZING!


----------



## kustomkb

Nice job Steve, that blower looks freakin' awesome!

a project unto itself.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I don't know why I do this but I "cant not" do it. After making rod bearings and wrist pins I lay out the parts to be used and weigh them in grams.








Then I put the light pistons with the heavy rods and weigh everything again.








Then I put the heavy pins with the light sets and re weigh.







Now I know I'm as close as I can get to balanced. I am real happy with that.


Then came time to press the sets together. The pins slip into the pistons and press into the rods.












I put the assembly into the lathe and oiled it up real good. Let it run until everything was turning real nice. Took about 10 minutes.


----------



## petertha

Can you please elaborate on your goodies

connecting rods:
- is the wristpin end also bushed like the bottom end, or plain?
- what type of bearing material did you use? 
- on assembly, would you locktite the bottom end bolts, or normal torque is ok?

wristpins:
- material = dill rod? hardened?
- what keeps them retained in the piston


----------



## stevehuckss396

petertha  said:
			
		

> - is the wristpin end also bushed like the bottom end, or plain?
> - what type of bearing material did you use?
> - on assembly, would you locktite the bottom end bolts, or normal torque is ok?
> 
> - material = dill rod? hardened?
> - what keeps them retained in the piston



Wrist pin end is plain
I used bronze for the rod bearings
Normal torque is fine

Drill rod polished to slip fit into piston
They are pressed into the rod and float in the piston.


----------



## petertha

Thanks. And whats the trick to making accurate split bushings like that in order that the faces are tight & the OD & ID bores concentric etc? Do you make a 'sandwich' of 2 bars of bronze, chuck in the 4-jaw, bore & turn etc then split them? Ive read where some guys use Ca glue & then dissolve it in acetone to part the half rings.


----------



## stevehuckss396

All I have on hand is round so i saw it in half with a slitting saw. I just hold it close to the chuck and turn the piece. I don't solder or glue or bond in any form. Before I part off the pieces I make a witness mark on the piece so I can get the pieces back together the right way. When I part off the pieces both halves go flying and if they fly at the same time you know the split was close to center.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hi guy's!

Made some progress on a few things today. I'm trying to get everything ready so the next time the crankshaft comes out, I will have everything ready to put it back in for the last time. I made a couple more collets to hold gears for modification. I made one for the idler gears and this one to modify the crankshaft gear.








Turned the hub down to the correct thickness. This will put the correct distance between the gear and the bearing.







Then the OD was modified to work with the bearing. The bore was opened up to a press fit onto the crankshaft. This finished up the crank gear.







I also made one for the idler gears. The idler just needed the hub removed. I also made the idler mounts. Only one of the idler gears is needed but I wanted to make mine like a Pete Jackson gear drive so i'm going to run 2 idlers.












After that I made my fixture for heat treating my rings. This fixture is made the George Trimble way. I included the fixture in the drawings but it is only good for 5/8 rings. 







Turned and bored the cast iron for the rings. Finished with 180, 320, and then 600 grit paper. Real happy with the finish and hit my number inside of .0002.












Loaded 27 rings into the fixture and they are ready for some heat.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well the rings are in the furnace for 4 hours so I made a couple blanks for my camshafts. I cut the drill rod to length and center drilled the blanks. Then I couldn't figure out how I was going to turn them. Couldn't put the lathe dog on and do the piece so i turned the first OD because it was .250 and I was able to put it in the lathe using a collet.








Turned all my OD's starting at the tailstock and worked my way back to the collet.







This cam will be the same as the V4 and the blown cam will have a little more race in it.













Started on the fixture to turn the cam. Decided I was done for the weekend.


----------



## stevehuckss396

The rings have cooled. I had to boil them to remove the anti-scale powder. I made them .001 thicker than needed so I will polish them with some 600 grit before installing them onto the pistons.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
The rings look good. Once you do them and find out how easy it is you wonder why all the fuss.
George


----------



## kcmillin

Great work Steve! 

I am a little confused about the ring fixture. What is the rod for? When/how did you cut the gap.

Kel


----------



## Drei

Hi,

How did you calculated the displacment of the blower, the diameter of the two rotors etc

Drei


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> The rings look good. Once you do them and find out how easy it is you wonder why all the fuss.
> George



I hear ya!  This is the second set that I have done in the furnace. Both went well and both times the fixture took less than an hour to make.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Great work Steve!
> 
> I am a little confused about the ring fixture. What is the rod for? When/how did you cut the gap.
> 
> Kel



The rod holds the ring open but also holds it open the correct way. You would have to read the article but it stresses the ring all the way around where as a square piece would put all the stress 180 degrees from the gap.

I crack them with wire snippers. The tool that is supposed to be used has jaws exactly like snippers. Just need to snip straight across the ring.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Drei  said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> How did you calculated the displacment of the blower, the diameter of the two rotors etc
> 
> Drei




I didn't. I put the longest case with the biggest rotors I could fit.


----------



## kuhncw

Hi Steve,

The rings and cam blanks are looking good. What was the anti-scale powder you used for the rings and what was your furnace temperature?

I'm looking forward to seeing your display at NAMES.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


----------



## keith5700

Steve,
I've just registered on here as I wanted to say how much I'm enjoying reading about your build.
I came across this site as I was collecting info on building my own V8. 
My aspirations have doubled since seeing your achievements so far. I'm building it with manual machines
so may be of interest to the non CNC men.

So, very impressed with your skills, and I look forward to the rest of the build.
Cheers, Keith.


----------



## Sparticusrye

Steve, I'm really enjoying your build. Makes me want to learn more about CNC. Though I enjoy manual machining. I look forward to hearing that blower wind up.

Kieth5700, I hope to see something about your build in the future too. I plan to do a V8 eventually and would be interested how to go about some of the machining manually.


----------



## Chaffe

i would really like to see some pics of this but photobucket is down for maintainance just now!


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> What was the anti-scale powder you used for the rings and what was your furnace temperature?




The part is heated to 500 degrees. Then the powder is sifted on and it sort of melts and coats the metal. I may have my facts wrong but the coating keeps the iron from decarbing which causes scale when in contact with oxygen and above 950 degrees F. The coating keeps the oxygen at bay. 

I heated to 1100F for 4 hours.

When they came off the fixture the gap stayed and did not spring closed at all. Complete stress relief.


----------



## stevehuckss396

keith5700  said:
			
		

> I'm building it with manual machines so may be of interest to the non CNC men.




Thanks Keith. I think all will have intrest in your build including myself.


----------



## kuhncw

Steve, thanks for the information on the temperatures and the process. 

What is the name of the anti-scale powder?

Thanks.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> What is the name of the anti-scale powder?




I forgot to mention, when finished, boil in hot water to remove the crust made by the powder.


http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1122/Product/NON_SCALING_COMPOUND


----------



## jpeter

I've read that placing a small piece of paper in the retort with the rings will absorbe the oxygen and prevent scale. You heard that? That's a lotta rings.


----------



## ironman

jpeter, I heard of that. A freind of mine uses brown paper bags. Tears a couple peices, wads them up and sticks them in with the rings.

ironman (Ray)


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I've read that placing a small piece of paper in the retort with the rings will absorbe the oxygen and prevent scale. You heard that? That's a lotta rings.




It works if you can seal up the fixture air tight. Some wrap the fixture with stainless steel foil and when the paper burns, it depletes the oxygen inside the foil. For 25 bucks you can get enough powder to last the rest of your life so why screw with all that. The powder is so easy it's not worth hoping the foil is sealed air tight.


----------



## kuhncw

Steve, I hope you can put up with one more question on the anti-scale powder. I see on Brownell's site, you heat the part to 500F and then apply the powder. Did you stack the rings on your fixture, heat them, then then dust the powder on or how did you coat them?

Thanks.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> Steve, I hope you can put up with one more question on the anti-scale powder. I see on Brownell's site, you heat the part to 500F and then apply the powder. Did you stack the rings on your fixture, heat them, then then dust the powder on or how did you coat them?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chuck




Earlier in the thread you saw the pic of the rings installed in the fixture. Then I put them in the furnace @ 500F for 30 minutes. 30 Minutes just to make sure the metal was 500F. Then I took the fixture out and sprinkled the powder on. It turns black and bubbles a little. It's not hard to tell when the rings are fully coated. Then they went back in for 4 hours @ 1100F. After the 4 hours is over just turn off the oven and let the rings cool naturally in the oven. Don't even open the door of the oven for 6-8 hours. Then take them out and boil the fixture until the coating is gone (5-10 min). 

It's really that easy.


----------



## Cliff

Steve first let me say that you have a fantastic talent and words can't describe how great your build is I have been following all your builds from day one almost. I have a question about the powder you put on your rings is it the same as Case Harding or is it something different. Cliff


----------



## stevehuckss396

Cliff  said:
			
		

> Steve first let me say that you have a fantastic talent and words can't describe how great your build is I have been following all your builds from day one almost. I have a question about the powder you put on your rings is it the same as Case Harding or is it something different. Cliff




It might be i'm not sure. There is a link to the product in post #695. (about 10 posts back). Take a look and see. It is an anti-scale product. Case harding is more of a quench liquid right?


----------



## jonesie

the powder use for case hardeningis called casinite, but it is used to give a hard case on the out side and still soft on the inside.it will not help with the scale and the rings are so thin the case would go all the way through. just a piece of paper in the foil is all you need . just make sure each side has 3 folds and it will be air tight. jonesie


----------



## stevehuckss396

Sorry for the lack of updates but my photo bucket account is still down. Anybody know what the problem is?


Not missing much. Just painting the block and oil pan and a few other parts.


----------



## kcmillin

Steve, I was having problems with photobucket a few days ago, but it seems to be working fine for me now. Are you still getting the maintenance screen when going onto the photobucket site? 

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Steve, I was having problems with photobucket a few days ago, but it seems to be working fine for me now. Are you still getting the maintenance screen when going onto the photobucket site?
> 
> Kel




I sure am. I can go onto the pb site and see some stuff but not mine.


----------



## BlakeMcKee

I can't wait to here all your "babys" purr like new born kittens Steve, seems like I've been following this thread for ages but its only a few months under a year! Will you being doing any dyno testing? Like... one naturally aspirated and one with the AWESOME looking supercharger? Thanks, and keep up the good work!


----------



## stevehuckss396

BlakeMcKee  said:
			
		

> I can't wait to here all your "babys" purr like new born kittens
> Will you being doing any dyno testing?




If I get these camshafts right, there wont be much purring going on.

I won't test the output power. I really don't care about that stuff. I just want them to look, sound, and smell good!!


----------



## doc1955

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I just want them to look, sound, and smell good!!



 :big: :big: And I thing you are achieving that completely! :big: :big:
This is be an awesome model engine!!! I am totally amazed!


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> If I get these camshafts right, there wont be much purring going on.



For me, a hot cam with a rough idle IS purring :big: :big:

Kel


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

I can not see the images ... what could it be? ???

See the attachment...

Thank you,

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well photobucket is still down.

I am as far as i'm going to go until after the show next weekend. I will spend the week shining past projects and getting my air supply sorted out.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

The look is great !!!

Very cool... congratulations!!!

Take care,

Alexandre


----------



## kcmillin

Wow, It's beautiful Steve! The whole package looks incredible together. 

Kel


----------



## metalmad

Magnificent  :bow: :bow: :bow:
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

Alexandre, Kel, Pete, and everybody who has commented, Thanks for the positive comments. Won't be much going on with the thread for a few weeks. Everything is shined up and packed to take to the NAMES show. Will go down Friday to setup and spend both Sat and Sun talking to people and enjoying the show. 

Cheers!!

Steve


----------



## steamer

That's Awesome Steve....beautiful!....Can't wait to hear it run!

Dave


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Man that thing looks great! I'll be at NAMES on Saturday only, Sunday commitments. I'll stop by and have a look at the real thing. The rocker covers are outstanding.
George


----------



## T70MkIII

Stunnning job so far, Steve. Enjoy NAMES.


----------



## jpeter

After seeing your pictures I'm not bringing mine to NAMES. I'd be too embarrassed. Iv'e often said, "When you think you'er getting pretty good go to a show and look at really good work. That'll bring you back down to earth."


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> After seeing your pictures I'm not bringing mine to NAMES. I'd be too embarrassed. Iv'e often said, "When you think you'er getting pretty good go to a show and look at really good work. That'll bring you back down to earth."




You better show up. We have 6 tables to fill. And I want to see the Victory run again!!


----------



## gbritnell

Hey Jim,
There will always be someone better. Anyone who makes something with his own hands should be proud of it. At least we can look back at the time spent 'here' and say we accomplished something. 
George


----------



## lee9966

Steve, this is looking great. What an ambitious project.

When you say how long some part has taken I have to read it twice, you get things done so fast.

Lee


----------



## stevehuckss396

LeeScrounger  said:
			
		

> When you say how long some part has taken I have to read it twice, you get things done so fast.



Thanks Lee!

Doesn't seem all that fast to me. If you go back to the first page, that was 10 months ago. Hard to believe that much time has gone by. I gave myself a year but somehow I think I'm going to be a little more than that.


----------



## cfellows

Beautiful work on this engine, Steve. Can't even begin to imagine how much time you've spent on some of the small, intricate parts. You truly have a way with metal. I really like your work.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Beautiful work on this engine, Steve. Can't even begin to imagine how much time you've spent on some of the small, intricate parts. You truly have a way with metal. I really like your work.
> 
> Chuck



Thanks Chuck! Now that NAMES is over I can get back at it.


----------



## Drei

Great looking engine well done . Regarding the crack, at which rpm did you machien it and as for the tool you used hss right?

Drei


----------



## stevehuckss396

Drei  said:
			
		

> Great looking engine well done . Regarding the crack, at which rpm did you machien it and as for the tool you used hss right?
> Drei



Speed? Don't know. My lathe has low, medium, and high. I used low

High speed steel parting blade. Used the T shaped blade.


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Stevehucks396, I hope you have been able to find the time to put the finishing touches on your excellent engine.

Some time ago, you commented that you would like to see my engine design, so I have added some screen pics of my 3D model.

I hope you don't mind, but I changed my carburettor float bowls to resemble yours. That was one element of my design that I didn't like and yours looked so much better I just had to copy them. Sorry about that.

My engine is, and has always been intended to go into an RC model. Either a car or a boat, hence the inclusion of the starter motor and manual clutch.


----------



## Heatherrose

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> If you go back to the first page, that was 10 months ago. Hard to believe that much time has gone by.
> I gave myself a year but somehow I think I'm going to be a little more than that.




What does it matter? The amount of education that you have gained, from your experience, and the extensive amount
of edification that you have been able to impart, especially to those who have been watching your progress, has been priceless.​


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> I hope you don't mind, but I changed my carburettor float bowls to resemble yours. That was one element of my design that I didn't like and yours looked so much better I just had to copy them. Sorry about that.
> 
> My engine is, and has always been intended to go into an RC model. Either a car or a boat, hence the inclusion of the starter motor and manual clutch.



I don't mind at all. Looks good. Hard to get a feel for how big it is.

Cooling in an RC car would be a problem. If I redesigned the cooling system just a little, I think mine would work well in a boat. The constant supply of cool water in the boat would be the only way. 




			
				Heatherrose  said:
			
		

> What does it matter?



To me, it doesn't. It will be done when it's done. I know there are some folks out there that want drawings so i'm trying not to drag it out but i'm not rushing it either.


----------



## trumpy81

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I don't mind at all. Looks good. Hard to get a feel for how big it is.
> 
> Cooling in an RC car would be a problem. If I redesigned the cooling system just a little, I think mine would work well in a boat. The constant supply of cool water in the boat would be the only way.



GDay All,

stevehuckss396, You're right, I should have included a scale of some sort, would've been easy enough to do. Anyhow, here are the specs for this engine.

Bore & Stroke = 17.5mm (0.688 in) x 15mm (0.590 in)
Overall Length = 202mm (7.952 in) From front crank pulley to end of drive shaft
Overall Height = 139.812 mm (5.505 in) From sump plug to top of air cleaner
Block Length = 104mm (4.094 in) From gear case to rear of block
Cylinder Head = 99mm (3.898 in) x 30mm (1.181 in)
Ignition = Points + Transistor + Coil + Rimfire Micro Viper Z3 spark plugs.
Distributor = Dia. 25mm
Fuel = Methanol, 5% Nitro.
Throttle Bore = 5mm
Starter Motor = 12v - Dia. 35mm x Length 62mm.
Bell Housing = Dia. 65mm (2.559 in) x Length 48mm (1.889 in)
Clutch = Single plate.
Water Pump = Impeller, block and cylinder heads are water cooled.
Lubrication = Wet Sump, Splash feed, although I am still working on a dry sump system with external oil pumps. All oil galleries are present, including the crankshaft, but getting the oil in has proven more difficult than I first thought. There's not much space left in the block for much of anything ... lol.
I'll crack it though .... lol

I hope to start building at the end of this year, but first I need to complete my Triumph 650 Bobber.

As for your engine in an RC car, one way would be to include two or more radiators and computer type fans. It shouldn't be too much of a problem, after all the Connelly V8 doesn't have water cooled heads and it seems to do OK in RC cars.

Your engine in a car would look super cool!!, or on a scale engine stand or a mockup dyno test rig. Of course that means more work, but then, this is a hobby hey ... lol

I'm looking forward to video of the engine running, but I know you have more pressing matters to attend to first. No hurry.

And thank you for inspiring me to continue with my life long dream of building a model V8 engine.


----------



## Drei

I wanted to know how did you time the engine, for example which the firing order and thus how do you number the cwlinders. I mean do you start counting on the crank shaft or on the cylider bancks and if so after each other or crossing them? 

Then as for the cam timing, once you have determind the cylinders firing order and numbers how do you time the cam lobes for every individual cylinder? Is there any specific method? 

In short words, if i had to design and built a v8 engine how would i get the correct timing?

Thanks Drei


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Drei, the camshaft timing depends on a lot of variables, for example, it depends on the direction that the crankshaft rotates and also the throws of the crankshaft as well.

In my engine, I cheated a little because I copied a 350 Chevrolet crankshaft, so my camshaft timing and cylinder numbering are the same as a full size 350 Chevrolet engine.

You could also use a Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes Benz etc. to get the same type of timing information and layout for your crankshaft, regardless of how many cylinders the engine has.

Your local auto mechanic should be able to help you with all the information you need.

I hope that helps


----------



## Drei

Thanks for the information andy. How did you copy the Chevy crank and timing, did you use any prints and if so how did you got them:

Drei


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Drei, I didn't use any prints, only photographs. There is no need to copy all the dimensions, just the layout.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Drei  said:
			
		

> I wanted to know how did you time the engine, for example which the firing order and thus how do you number the cwlinders. I mean do you start counting on the crank shaft or on the cylider bancks and if so after each other or crossing them?
> 
> Then as for the cam timing, once you have determind the cylinders firing order and numbers how do you time the cam lobes for every individual cylinder? Is there any specific method?
> 
> In short words, if i had to design and built a v8 engine how would i get the correct timing?
> 
> Thanks Drei



Hello Drei!

I started with the most common layout for an american V8. Cylinder closest to the front of the engine is #1. I put that cylinder on the driver (left) side like a Chevy. 1,3,5,7 down the left side and 2,4,6,8 down the right side. I also copied the Chevy firing order of 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2.

I have a method for doing that. Read this article and see if you understand how to lay out the lobes. It is a bit confusing, I had to read it twice and I wrote it. Page 7 has info on laying out the lobes on the sheet. I just emailed it to you.

The hardest part is choosing a lobe shape. Once you know the lift and duration you want to use, figuring the rest is not to bad. I like 280 degrees with 60 degrees overlap for my carbed V8 and 300 diration with 80 degrees overlap for my blown engine. Simply because I like how the cam sounds. Far to many model engines are under cammed. I don't know the reasoning behind it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I finally found a minute or two today so i picked up where I left off on the cam fixture. I drilled the holes in the base that the end piece bolts onto.







Then the end piece was made and the holes were drilled and tapped.







The fixture gets bolted together and clamped so the ends can be drilled. I like to do it this way so I have a better chance of the 2 holes on different pieces being the correct distance center to center. The centers are drilled and the holes for the bushings are drilled and reamed. Then the holes are drilled for mounting the disk.







After the fixture was finished I made the 2 bushings that keep the shaft safe from the screws.












The cam gets installed into the fixture. Set the bushing so the slit is straight up. This way if they spin while machining the shaft you will notice.







The rear piece goes on and the fixture is bolted together. The disk is installed and the pointer is slipped thru the hole in the cam and curled around the shaft. Screw the set screws in that lock the cam in place. Tighten the heck out of them to create a divot in the side of the bushing. Now when you loosen the screw to turn the shaft the bushing should stay in place and not rotate the shaft. When you glue the degree wheel on the disk try to have the zero mark dead left with 90 degree straight up. This way you can start at zero. I doesn't matter where you start but it is nice to start at the beginning. Set the pointer at zero degrees and the shaft is ready for lobes.






I put the fixture in the lathe to check for clearance. Glad I did because the tool was catching the top corners of the fixture. I turned the fixture corners and rechecked again. Everything looked good and I could move the tool everywhere I need to without a crash.







As a final check i butted the tool into the cam on the front lobe and the dial stopped at 21. Then I moved to the rear lobe and did the same and the dial stopped at almost 22. This tells me the shaft is aligned to the lathe by less than .001. All my lobes should have the same lift if I stop at the same place on the dial.


Now I need to find 4-5 hours to machine me some camshaft.


----------



## BillC

Doing your V8 cam that way is quite an undertaking! I did a four cylinder cam that way a number of years ago and don't remember much about it now but there is something about it that didn't leave good memories. It was made for a reduced sized Mastiff flat four that was modified to be air cooled so the tappet angles were different so all of the 'plan' layouts were not applicable... I found that even with the four cylinder, that the cam flexed as the center lobes were nipped away and in that thinking I would place a half support at the center of your frame. 

Just a suggestion in good humor and knowing that you know what you're doing....Maybe I'm too careful.

Good going there man! We are following intently! I'm pretty lame about the number of parts involved with a V8 - I hate 'mass production'!

BillC


----------



## stevehuckss396

BillC  said:
			
		

> I'm pretty lame about the number of parts involved with a V8 - I hate 'mass production'!



Hello Bill

Try 2 V8's at the same time! 

Not to worried about the flex. The smallest part of the cam is still .300 diameter. When I cut a lobe for the first time I cut .005 at a time until I get to .070. Seems lite alot of cutting but they go quick because you can see where to stop. So zip zip zip zip for the first cut. When rotated for the second cut its about .015 to .020 on the next so they go even faster. My V4 took less than 4 hours. This one should be around 5 hours.


----------



## metalmad

Hi Steve
It looks amazing :bow:
would u please post a wider angle pic, showing the fixture in the lathe ,Im not sure I understand how it works 
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

metalmad  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve
> It looks amazing :bow:
> would u please post a pic showing the fixture in the lathe ,Im not sure I understand how it works



I planned to take alot of pics and try real hard to explain this thing. Read the first 1/3 of this article first, it will help alot. 

http://www.mikes-models.com/camarticle.html


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, I just read your article on cutting cams. Brilliant!! Well done and well put together. I'm still not sure I fully understand the process but I will re-read it, model it in 3D, until I do fully understand it.

It seems like it would be fairly easy once one gets their head around it ... :big:

Thank you oh masterful one :bow:

PS: I calculated my compression ratio and it is 9.86 : 1 with a 1mm (0.040in) thick head gasket or 13.66 : 1 with a 0.5mm (0.020in) head gasket. A little on the high side, but at least I got past a really dumb error I was making. When converting mm³ to cc's you don't just divide by 10 .... : :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

I couldn't find time to cut camshaft but I did get a few hours. I decided to start making some pieces that will be needed for the spark plugs. The plugs are #8-40 thread. Three steps are turned in the 9/32 hex bar. The first is the surface that will contact the washer. The second step is the threads and the third step, with a little luck, will be cut away and form the ground strap.








The step above the hex gets cut and the threads were made with a die holder that goes into the chuck in the tail stock.







The piece then gets drilled thru.







Then a piece of stock got drilled and tapped and the plug bases are threaded into it to bore the top where the insulator will seat.

. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Thats as far as I got. Now all that is left is to cut out the ground straps. I have no idea how i'm going to do that right now.









I was tinkering with a press to assemble the plugs. After the insulator goes onto the base the press will roll the edge of the base over the insulator. I made a test piece and am happy with the test piece.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
At one time I had made plugs the way you are showing. To cut the ground strap I made a small threaded bushing and screwed the plug in from the backside leaving the excess stock sticking out of the bushing. I then chucked it up in my dividing head and used a slitting saw to cut away all the unneeded stock. The only problem I had was when I bent the ground strap over some of them would fracture and break. I guess it depends on the type of stock you are using for the plug bodies. 
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> The only problem I had was when I bent the ground strap over some of them would fracture and break. I guess it depends on the type of stock you are using for the plug bodies.
> George




I am using 12L14 for the bodies. If I have that problem i'll try heating them red hot. This is why there are alot of extras.


----------



## techonehundred

Great work on what I am seeing right now!! :bow:


			
				gbritnell  said:
			
		

> The only problem I had was when I bent the ground strap over some of them would fracture and break. I guess it depends on the type of stock you are using for the plug bodies.
> George



So is there any reason that you could not just take an endmill the size of the through hole in the plug body and make it flat bottomed without drilling through and then mill off what is not the ground strap? If it is done this way, the ground strap is already pre-bent.


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, what material are you using for the insulators?


----------



## stevehuckss396

techonehundred  said:
			
		

> So is there any reason that you could not just take an endmill the size of the through hole in the plug body and make it flat bottomed without drilling through and then mill off what is not the ground strap? If it is done this way, the ground strap is already pre-bent.




Yes you could. If this method fails, that will be the next option.


----------



## GailInNM

Steve,
I have bent about 15 ground straps out of 12L14 with out incident. Two I bent wrong the first time and straightened out and bent again. My straps are 0.015 thick x 0.047 wide.

Your project is looking good. I follow along every step.

Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> I have bent about 15 ground straps out of 12L14 with out incident. Two I bent wrong the first time and straightened out and bent again. My straps are 0.015 thick x 0.047 wide.




Thats good to hear. Mine are .015 thick and .020 wide. I would hate to think I have 25 scrap bases. I was hoping for 20 good pieces when complete.


----------



## Fingers

Amazing work :bow: I have just found this thread a couple of days ago and I am fully up to date now ,
What can i say that has not been said before so from Ireland "Go raibh maith agat" Thank you
Jamie


----------



## stevehuckss396

OK! here goes and if you don't understand whats going on here, don't ask me because I don't either!!!

Seriously I had the blank loaded in the fixture and the pointer at zero. In the lathe it goes and looking at the chart there is an "X" when you cut and nothing when you don't. So the chart shows for zero degrees we cut lobes 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 12, 13, 16







The lobes are cut to a depth that equals the lift. In this case I cut to a depth of .070 inches. I cut the first 4 lobes at the same time in .005 steps until I reached .070. Then the lathe gets turned off and the tool is moved to the next group. I prefer to shut-er-down between moves to keep things from crashing. There is enough to keep track of with the chart so no need to increase my chances.







The lathe is again shut down and the set screws in the fixture are loosened. The blank is rotated until the pointer points to 5 degrees. Now when you go to cut, the little nibble that is taken is so small that the tool will be .055 deep before it contacts the work piece. 3 .005 steps and the lobe is done.







The same process is followed until you get to 25 degrees. At 25 degrees intake #5 needs to added so the tool will be backed out to zero again and the #5 lobe is cut down to the .055 depth and again they can be cut as a group.












Again the blank is rotated 5 degrees and cut and rotated and cut. At 45 degrees exhaust #4 gets dropped from the group so i painted it with a sharpie to remind myself not to cut it anymore.







The pointer at some point will hit the live center in the tail stock so i figure 180 degrees is as good as any to stop.







Make sure the cam is snug and cannot rotate in the fixture. The fixture is removed from the lathe. The pointer is removed from the cam blank. The disk gets unscrewed, rotated 180 degrees, and screwed back on the fixture. Then the pointer gets put back in pointing at 180 again. Now you can make another 180 degree swing without hitting the center.







Now the 5 degree process keeps going until the pointer gets to 355 degrees and if the chart is correct, and the chart was followed correctly, you got a cam shaft with some funny shaped lobes.











All the lobes will now be hand filed so they will have a nice nose radius. The entire process took me a good 5 hours.


----------



## Lakc

Looks beautiful! :bow:
I followed that procedure right out of SIC once, it does work to make beautiful cams. I tend to find myself making circles in midair while muttering to myself when making camshafts :'(


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> I tend to find myself making circles in midair while muttering to myself when making camshafts




I have done that myself. I made the cam and had to take the dog to the vet and go shopping for fencing so there were some breaks. Today I did the cam for the blown motor and worked start to finish. Took less than 4 hours. That's not bad for making a V8 cam.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I think i'm going to be ok on the plugs. For there size (.020 X .020) the ground straps are pretty strong. It took a little force to bend the little sucker. Now i need to make a little holder to turn the square pieces of corian.


----------



## steamer

I'm really loving this Steve.  That cam looks awesome....then you load me up with spark plugs.

I'm so unworthy! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Dave


----------



## Lakc

Did you spot weld those on, or are they machined remnants?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Did you spot weld those on, or are they machined remnants?



They are machined. Take a look at reply #744. There is a before picture.


----------



## Lakc

Ok, sorry I missed that amongst all this camshaft goodness. Do you think you might need to stress relieve them to keep them from moving in use?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Ok, sorry I missed that amongst all this camshaft goodness. Do you think you might need to stress relieve them to keep them from moving in use?




Don't know. Never made a plug before this one. 

Metal meeting tonight!! Loc-tite guy is coming with lots of samples!!! Hoping he has a magic potion for putting these plugs together.


----------



## kcmillin

Steve, I recently made a set of plugs using the same materials. I used locktite sleve retainer on a few to hold them together, it definitely holds tight, but two of them have a short somewhere, and won't spark. The epoxy'd ones works fine.

 Can you ask the locktite guy what the electrical properties of their product is? Maybe I did something wrong.

Kel


----------



## jpeter

Hey Steve, if you can gather me up some locktite stuff. I'm gonna have to miss the meeting. I spent a night in the hospital and the doc won't let me drive for a day or two.

Thanks,


----------



## stevehuckss396

Do you want me to pick you up on the way?


----------



## stevehuckss396

For my next problem, the solder wont stick to my wire that i'm using for the electrode. I think its nichrome. What should I try. I think I can get .020 spring wire. Or should I look at crimping the cap on?

Here is the failed prototype #1 with the cap super glued on.


----------



## Lakc

For solder to stick, you may have to tin or copper plate it first. You can copper plate with drain root killer, but thats another topic.

You could always crimp it.

That looks awesome!


----------



## jpeter

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Do you want me to pick you up on the way?


Why not, it'd only be a couple hundred miles extra for you. I get my privileges back in the morning. 

Say, fine looking sparkplugs. Fastening the cap on is gonna be fun. You outta try spot welding it. If the wire went all the way through the cap you could attach a power source of some sort to it. Touch the other polarity to the cap and you might get a weld that would be good enough. Think too about silver solder, then press the element in after the attachment is made. You'll find a way.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Why not, it'd only be a couple hundred miles extra for you. I get my privileges back in the morning.



His Eminence won't be there either. His broken thumb is worse than they thought and they are in there right now putting in some plates and screws. Rick sure has had a bad start to the summer. 

I'll see if I can double up on the goodie bags!!


----------



## GailInNM

Steve,
If you really want to use the nichrome wire for the center electrode, how about making it only go up halfway in the insulator and follow it with some music wire of the same diameter up to the terminal. As long as they are touching there should not be any problem. Even if they are near touching it should work OK except that you will read open if you measure with an ohm meter. Think spark intensifier. You will already have a much bigger gap in the system in your distributor.
Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> If you really want to use the nichrome wire for the center electrode, how about making it only go up halfway in the insulator and follow it with some music wire of the same diameter up to the terminal. As long as they are touching there should not be any problem. Even if they are near touching it should work OK except that you will read open if you measure with an ohm meter. Think spark intensifier. You will already have a much bigger gap in the system in your distributor.
> Gail in NM



Thanks Mr. Graham but I would prefer to put a single electrode in there. I am not firm on the nichrome. McMaster Carr has music wire the size I need. If it will work Ill order it right now. I just need a material that will solder to brass and i'll get it. They have 15 types of flux to so i am not sure what i need.  AAHHH!!! I got a head ache!!


----------



## GailInNM

That's good by me Steve. Just offering a possible option.

I am using music wire (1/32 dia) on my plugs. As I recall it eroded about 0.010 inch in 300 hours of operation at 2000 rpm. The ground electrode probably wore away 1/2 that amount also.

Music wire to brass solders easy. Just clean the music wire up well as most of it has oil and other crud from the drawing process on the surface. I use standard electronic flux.

FWIW, 0.020 music wire is a stock K&S item at most hobby shops that deal with RC cars or airplanes.
Gail in NM


----------



## Lakc

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Why not, it'd only be a couple hundred miles extra for you. I get my privileges back in the morning.
> 
> Say, fine looking sparkplugs. Fastening the cap on is gonna be fun. You outta try spot welding it. If the wire went all the way through the cap you could attach a power source of some sort to it. Touch the other polarity to the cap and you might get a weld that would be good enough. Think too about silver solder, then press the element in after the attachment is made. You'll find a way.


I have an almost complete spot welder, but that is yet another project I started for battery tabs. Half a dozen huge capacitors and an SCR. In terms of ease, I think plating would be a little easier, but not as much fun without the sparks flying.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Can you ask the locktite guy what the electrical properties of their product is? Maybe I did something wrong.




Sorry Kel but the guy never showed up.


----------



## kcmillin

Thanks anyway Steve. I think something else may be wrong with my plugs now. I can't quite figure it out.

Kel


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Music wire solders with regular solder well, just be sure to sand the area you want to solder to. Tinning the wire first to makes sure you've gotten it hot enough helps ensure you'll get a good joint.


----------



## Lakc

Full size plugs use a sillment seal between the insulator and shell. 
http://www.trademarkia.com/sillment-71378877.html
From what I understand its just a finely ground insulator material. I recall being able to recover some of it from old spark plugs, so it shouldnt be too hard to use the "right stuff".
High voltages can be extremely intolerant to poor insulators, so this might not be a good use for loctite.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Full size plugs use a sillment seal between the insulator and shell.
> http://www.trademarkia.com/sillment-71378877.html
> From what I understand its just a finely ground insulator material. I recall being able to recover some of it from old spark plugs, so it shouldnt be too hard to use the "right stuff".
> High voltages can be extremely intolerant to poor insulators, so this might not be a good use for loctite.




I think epoxy will be just fine. It's been used by many on the forum and works well.


----------



## gbritnell

Steve,
I have been following along on your spark plug build. The only issue you have is trying to join the cap to the center electrode wire? Why not silver solder them together and then press the whole thing into the insulator?
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> I have been following along on your spark plug build. The only issue you have is trying to join the cap to the center electrode wire? Why not silver solder them together and then press the whole thing into the insulator?
> George




I tried to solder the cap on but I had Nichrome wire in there. I ordered 1018 (music wire) from McMaster Carr and some flux that better suits the job. I think the wire may have been the problem along with the wrong flux. Should have the problem solved tomorrow.


----------



## stevehuckss396

It's been a while but I wanted to report that I recieved my misic wire and brazing flux and the cap bonded without any trouble at all.

I was making insulators and found that the corian snapped off with the slightest wrong move. My friend ron offered his sherline CNC lathe for the production. I made the prototype by hand to make sure the piece fit well and fit the bill. The last few days have been writing and testing Gcode and holy cow did we learn. We have never done anything CNC on the lathe. What a blast. With some increadibly light cutting we managed to get 100% good parts with no snap offs. We actually cut some corian down to .074 diameters with success.

After the code was written we made pieces from corian in white, black, and blue. I am going to use the black in one of the V8's. We even cut them in wood (did'nt work well) and clear acrylic. What a blast!

I have to give the lathe back so I will start making the brass caps and start soldering. Should have some plugs ready by the end of the weekend.


----------



## metalmad

Wow I love that clear plug. At the time I was happy with the plug, I made for The "Sow" but u have taken it to a whole new level.
Truly Inspiring.
Pete


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, Just what is corian? I've not heard of it before. It looks to be some sort of plastic.

Also, how do you ROLL the top of the plug body over to capture the insulator? Do you use a die and a press or .... ?

Great looking plugs BTW!


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> Just what is corian?
> 
> how do you ROLL the top of the plug body over to capture the insulator?



Corian is a Dupont product used to make fancy counter tops. A friend of mine has connections with a shop that does that type of work. We get the sink cutouts.

I roll the edge with a little tool I made that after the plug is inserted, the tool is inserted in an arbor press.


----------



## T70MkIII

If I was 30 years younger I would suggest a gap in the electrode inside the acrylic plug. Then I would say "Righteous sweet slammin' lightshow, Dawg" or somesuch.

Really nice work as always, Steve.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well it has been an exhausting week. I had some trouble with the CNC mill. The Z axis would work fine for hours and all of a sudden it would skip steps. I think I narrowed it down to the drive. I rebuilt the control panel to include 3 Gecko drives and new 570oz motors. The machine now moves around so fast it's scary.

Now I should be able to get back to building engines!!!


----------



## trumpy81

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Well it has been an exhausting week. I had some trouble with the CNC mill. The Z axis would work fine for hours and all of a sudden it would skip steps. I think I narrowed it down to the drive. I rebuilt the control panel to include 3 Gecko drives and new 570oz motors. The machine now moves around so fast it's scary.



GDay All,

Steve, it sounded like you had a heat issue in as much as some of the components were losing their tolerances enough to effect the axis. No matter though, you've solved the problem nicely.

I've heard nothing but good things about Gecko's, maybe the next time I CNC something I will consider using Gecko's also.

In the meantime, you got any pics of your mill and controller?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Just a mini update. I spent some time filing the nose radius on the lobes of the camshaft. After the shaft was looking good, the hole in the center of the distributor drive gear was rebored to fit on the shaft. 








Then with a bit of loc-tite, It gets pressed onto the camshaft.


----------



## Lakc

Tiny little teeth there, whats the DP?


----------



## jpeter

Look'n good. I took a break from engine building. Maybe next week I'll get back to it. How many inches per minute are your rapids now with your new setup? My BP maxes out about 25 in/m on x and y but z can only do maybe 9 in/m. That works but more would be better. I should have bought one of those ball screws shown at 2 club meetings ago and arranged it on the knee.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Tiny little teeth there, whats the DP?




96


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Look'n good. I took a break from engine building. Maybe next week I'll get back to it. How many inches per minute are your rapids now with your new setup? My BP maxes out about 25 in/m on x and y but z can only do maybe 9 in/m. That works but more would be better. I should have bought one of those ball screws shown at 2 club meetings ago and arranged it on the knee.




It rapids at 360ipm and I could probibly go faster.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Scratch camshaft off the list. The distributor gear has been turned to accept the bearing.







Then the bearing was pressed onto the gear







Yet another collet was made to rework the cam gear.








And the shaft is completed other than a few lobes that need just a bit more filing.


----------



## ozzie46

You got your elbow in the pic. :big: :big: :big:

 Seriously this is just awesome. :bow: :bow: :bow:



  Ron


----------



## v8power

Looking good can't wait to here it running keep up the good work


----------



## kustomkb

Nice work Steve,

It looks awesome!


----------



## stevehuckss396

The lifters and camshaft are installed.












The block got a good cleaning and then some gaskets.

I made 2 more fixtures to make gaskets. They work just like the head fixture. The teflon is sandwiched between 2 pieces of aluminum. The center is cut out of the gasket. The gasket is then sandwiched between the fixture and the actual piece that needs gasketing. The outer shape is then cut out and the piece unbolted. The front cover and water pump gaskets are done.


----------



## steamer

That looks great Steve! OOOOH Steamer wants big VROOOOOM! ;D

Dave


----------



## cfellows

Wow, Steve, you make me feel like a slug! You're really moving along with this project. Have you worked out all the remaining details or are there still some things to be decided?

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Wow, Steve, you make me feel like a slug! You're really moving along with this project. Have you worked out all the remaining details or are there still some things to be decided?
> 
> Chuck



I should be able to finish without too much trouble. Just need to get out there and make the distributor parts. After that It's all assembly of the heads, distributor, and spark plugs. Then of coures there is a fuel tank and radiator. Still alot to go and I'm coming up on my one year mark.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Went ahead and put some valves in 2 of the heads. I found that about half of the valves had the groove cut to big and the clip would not seat into the retainer. I chucked them back into the collet and cut the grooves .002 deeper and they went together like they should.







Then I decided to install the rocker studs more perminent. They had been screwed in finger tight forever.







With the heads being done I nailed down my finished push rod length. I only had enough rod to make 12 rods but that will be fixed tomorrow.







Then a set of rockers were assembled and put into place. Nothing is adjusted with the camshaft not properly timed yet. 







I need to get on the distributor soon but I have not had the drive to work in the garage lately


----------



## Fingers

Getting closer now steve, I look forward to watching your build when i log on keep it up..........
Jamie


----------



## stevehuckss396

Fingers  said:
			
		

> Getting closer now steve, I look forward to watching your build when i log on keep it up..........
> Jamie



Thanks Jamie, I still have alot of work but the vast majority is behind me.


----------



## kuhncw

Hello Steve,

The engine is looking great.

Where did you find the 96 DP mitre gears for the distributor drive?

Thanks.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> Where did you find the 96 DP mitre gears for the distributor drive?



Hang on to your hat when you get to the pricing!

http://www.wmberg.com/


----------



## metalmad

Breathtaking Steve
I can hear her Now :bow:
Pete


----------



## steamer

Awesome Build Steve!.....Damn Berg is expensive... 

I'll poke around and see if I can find anything.....

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Damn Berg is expensive...



They seem to have the little things that most don't have like 1/4 inch shaft seals and fine tooth gears.


----------



## kuhncw

Those Berg gears are pricy, but look nice and they are stainless steel.

 I found 48DP, 15 tooth, 0.313 pitch dia, brass miter gears at Stock Drive Products, for about $18 per pair.

https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=305&GroupID=271

Steve, you have over twice as many teeth on your gears, 35 vs 15 on the SDP gears. Is there an advantage to the higher number of teeth?

I'll keep Berg in mind for seals and other hard to find items.

Regards,

Chuck


----------



## steamer

Well SDP was were I was going next...then BG...who usually doesn't carry the small stuff...but you never know.

Good find kuhncw

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> Is there an advantage to the higher number of teeth?




I prefer the stainless and I like the fine adjustment when I'm trying twist the distributor one tooth. The distributor in the V8 will only turn 30 degrees before running out of adjustment. Makes it easier to setup the ignition.

I guess it's just one of those things that I feel is worth paying a little extra for.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I have just uncovered a major problem. I have drilled the distributor hole in the wrong spot. Must have had some kind of brain fart that day. Tomorrow I will have to start the long process of total disassembly of the engine. The holes will have to be plugged in the block and manifold. They will have to be redrilled and then everything reassembled. It ain't going to happen today. I'm too disgusted with myself.


----------



## vedoula

oh no!


----------



## steamer

Well that does genuinely suck now doesn't it 


Hang in buddy...You can fix it..

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

vedoula  said:
			
		

> oh no!




Not a huge problem. All I need to do is plug the block. When I made manifold(s), all 3 came out good so I can switch out to an undrilled manifold. The plug should be completely hidden by the intake. 

This kind of stuff happens to even the best of the best. I remember when George was making the transmission case came upon something unexpected. I'm sure all of the cream of the crop around here have an awe $h!t moment. Just have to get past it and keep moving forward.

I'll find out there is a problem. I'll get mad for about 10 minutes. Then I'll stand over the boo boo and figure out what you need to do to fix it. In the house for the night and the next day with a calmer and clearer head, you get the boo boo fixed.

It's all part of the hobby!


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Well that does genuinely suck now doesn't it



genuinely?   Don't know why but that made me laugh!! Thanks!


----------



## Maryak

Steve,

Sorry about the "genuine suck".............glad it's going to work out OK.

It started me thinking what a "non genuine suck" would be like and having plumbed the depths, I think I'll leave it alone. :

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## steamer

Oh no PLEASE Bob Expound PLEEEEEEESE!


 :bow:


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> genuinely?   Don't know why but that made me laugh!! Thanks!



Genuine Sucks are the Exquisite sucks....you know the ones ..When you desperately want to set your head on fire with lighter fluid and put the flames out with an ice pick kinds of Sucks.....These sucks are usually associated with spastic redecorating of shop walls with high velocity bits of NOW useless metal, colorful lanquage regarding SOMEONES Son, and a rapid spike in blood pressure often leading to convulsions and screaming at inanimate objects.


No artificial sucks need apply....when only the best SUCK will do!

 ;D

Dave


----------



## keith5700

Steve, so far I've got one plug in my block, one in the sump, and 2 in the inlet manifold, and half an M2 tap stuck in the block, which will need sparking out.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well the problem is fixed. It's not the greatest work that i have ever done but it wont be seen and will not effect the operation of the engine.

It is back together and I have the cam timing set. NOW I can get going on the distributor!!


----------



## 90LX_Notch

Steve-

Way to bounce back. This is one of my "follow it everyday" threads. Like others, I eagerly await the completion of this engine.

Bob


----------



## steamer

Good going Steve! Knew you could do it!

Dave


----------



## metalmad

good on ya Steve
keep on pluging away 
Pete


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks for the vote of confidence. No pics yet but I started the distributor.


----------



## jpeter

Gonna have it running Wednesday?


----------



## T70MkIII

Glad to hear it's back on track, Steve.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks for the positive comments and no chance of a Wednesday run.

Continuing along with the distributor the electrodes were made for the cap. They are a simple turned piece with a small hole drilled about 3/4 of the way thru.








The hole gets filled with solder about 3/4 of the way up.







I used the 10,000 volt wire that S/S sells. The wire measured about .108 so the cap got drilled .110 and the brass is .112 inches. The end got skinned about .125 long.







The solder gets heated to molten and then the wire gets stuffed into the hole.







The electrodes were made .002 larger than the hole in the cap. The wire gets threaded thru from the bottom and the brass is pressed into the cap.


----------



## metalmad

Looking soooo good 
Pete


----------



## kcmillin

I really like your method with the spark plug wires. :bow: Very Clean and neat looking. What are you using for the plug end?

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> I really like your method with the spark plug wires. :bow: Very Clean and neat looking. What are you using for the plug end?
> 
> Kel



I can best describe it as a cap with the wire soldered on the top. The inside of the cap will be .005 larger than the tip of the spark plug. I would like to find something to use as a boot but I might Have to make something.


----------



## kcmillin

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I would like to find something to use as a boot but I might Have to make something.



I am using R/C fuel tubing with heat shrink tubing over that on my TI4. It makes a nice looking boot, however the boot ends up much larger than the wire, due to the thick walled tubing, but it does hold nice and tight to the 1/8" brass plug contact. 

Is the cap you are talking about made of brass? Perhaps you could use only heat shrink tubing, but what type of friction device are you using to hold the wire to the plug?

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> I am using R/C fuel tubing with heat shrink tubing over that on my TI4. It makes a nice looking boot, however the boot ends up much larger than the wire, due to the thick walled tubing, but it does hold nice and tight to the 1/8" brass plug contact.
> 
> Is the cap you are talking about made of brass? Perhaps you could use only heat shrink tubing, but what type of friction device are you using to hold the wire to the plug?
> 
> Kel



The cap will be brass and the boot will need to be silicon rubber. The boot needs to be a 90 degree boot. The insulator is .125 and the brass plug contact is .080.


----------



## stevehuckss396

aermotor8  said:
			
		

> steve, bob shores used to make spark plug boots. i think he used a liquid rubber of some kind and he poured it in to a split mold.
> 
> just a thought, some one else might know what all is involved in this procedure.
> 
> as always you produce some very amazing work :bow: , i like following along.
> 
> chuck



I have already drawn a few molds in cad. Working on it.


----------



## jpeter

Regarding the boot mold, geeze and just when I think I've got a unique idea.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Regarding the boot mold, geeze and just when I think I've got a unique idea.



Thats the easy part. Finding the right stuff to pour into it is the hard part. One fellow at the meeting said he had enough to make all the boots we need for our engines. PINK! I don't know about you but I non't want pink boots.

Rick fell again at work and may have rebroke his thumb and possibly the screws they put in last month.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I was lazy today. Didn't do much but I did make the balance of the spark plugs with 2 extra.

I went up and got a Dremel tool and ground what sharp edges I could get to on my intake. The piece was then sand blasted. I kind of like the way it looks. I think I'm going to clear coat it and leave it alone instead of paint.


----------



## kcmillin

Steve, you might want to try silicone caulking. I use it at work, and it hardens quite nice. Plus it comes in a variety of colors. 

Kel


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Thats the easy part. Finding the right stuff to pour into it is the hard part. One fellow at the meeting said he had enough to make all the boots we need for our engines. PINK! I don't know about you but I non't want pink boots.


The proper diaelectric material can never be an affront to ones manliness. ;D

The trouble with most black things is if they used carbon for the color, thats a big no-no with ignition systems. I think good old Mopar black RTV would work, however.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> I think good old Mopar black RTV would work.



Jim tried it. Wouldn't set up in the mold. Every spark boot i have ever owned was black. Something black has gotta work


----------



## dsquire

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Jim tried it. Wouldn't set up in the mold. Every spark boot i have ever owned was black. Something black has gotta work



Steve

Here is a link to a couple of places that might be able to help. I have only read about them and not used them but they sound good.

http://www.freemansupply.com/
http://www.miapoxy.com/

Check them out and hopefully you can find something other than pink for those boots. Otherwise those engines are looking fantastic, keep up the good work.

Cheers 

Don


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Jim tried it. Wouldn't set up in the mold. Every spark boot i have ever owned was black. Something black has gotta work


The 8 year old tubes in my toolbox probably wont, but if you allow some air to reach different parts of the mold with stringers, it should. One major problem with any RTV is its crappy short shelf life. 

There is a plastics place on 8 mile that supplies granular rubber for plastic injection molds. That requires some tight temp controls, and a piston to pressurize the rubber, but its a simple process I have been meaning to try.


----------



## Catminer

Steve

I have used windshield mounting urathane to make battery cable boots, about the same consistency as RTV silicone. Sets up quick and very tough.

Peter


----------



## Lakc

Catminer  said:
			
		

> Steve
> 
> I have used windshield mounting urathane to make battery cable boots, about the same consistency as RTV silicone. Sets up quick and very tough.
> 
> Peter


That stuff is very tough, and expensive. Beware, it has a shelf life measured in weeks.


----------



## T70MkIII

Can you just spray paint over the pink? Must be something in black that would stick...


----------



## gbritnell

Steve,
I just got a sale catalog in the mail from Micro Mark. In there they have a 2 part casting urethane that is used for making model car tires. It has a shore reading for hardness but I'm not sure what it equates to. They also have pigments that can be used to color the urethane, black, red, blue, etc. I have dabbled a little with making molds for my plastic model car stuff and it should be a piece of cake to make a spark plug boot mold. 
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> I just got a sale catalog in the mail from Micro Mark.



I'm on it!!


----------



## jpeter

For RTV molds these guys seem to have all the stuff.
http://www.hobbysilicone.com/silicone.htm


----------



## cfellows

Steve, Model Engine Builder that has an article on making spark plug boots from 90 degree auto vacuum tube connectors. They look pretty good. I'll look up the issue number if you are interested.

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Steve, Model Engine Builder that has an article on making spark plug boots from 90 degree auto vacuum tube connectors. They look pretty good. I'll look up the issue number if you are interested.
> 
> Chuck



Absolutely interested. Thanks Chuck! Looking forward to hearing back.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Made a few pieces for the fuel tank. I have been in a lazy mood for some reason and wanted to do something to keep the train rolling.


Bottom Fitting








Filler neck







Gas cap. I was going to knurl the part but the tool was set to high. Gave it a go and decided I like the way it looks so it will stay this way.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Here's the links to the information I posted in the files section way back when. It has one for the boot and one for the cap.
George
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item195
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item196


----------



## cfellows

Steve, it's Model Engine Builder, volume 1, issue 4, December 2005. And I was wrong, the boot is made from a 90 degree, PEPCO 1/4" elbow for drip irrigation systems. The metal insert is made from brass tubing.

I have also had a member of our local metal working club indicate that auto stores carry vacuum tube elbows that will work as well.

Chuck


----------



## cfellows

By the way, if you are interested, here is a searchable index to Model Engine Builder:

http://www.modelenginebuilder.com/MEB_Magazine_Index2.pdf

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Steve, it's Model Engine Builder, volume 1, issue 4, December 2005. And I was wrong, the boot is made from a 90 degree, PEPCO 1/4" elbow for drip irrigation systems. The metal insert is made from brass tubing.
> 
> I have also had a member of our local metal working club indicate that auto stores carry vacuum tube elbows that will work as well.
> 
> Chuck



I have an assortment of the vacuum elbows. They are way to big for my plugs.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well as if i haven't punished myself doing this project, I have decided on a stainless exhaust system. I'm actually going to do 2, the first and the last!! This stainless is a nightmare to machine and very hard on the tooling.


----------



## Rayanth

Looks like the stainless came out good. We have to drill stainless as practice material for drilling titanium...by hand. The trick is slow and steady, as it workhardens very quickly, and starts destroying drill bits with reckless abandon.

Titanium is actually far easier to drill, but too expensive for practice projects.

Looking fantastic so far, can't wait to see it finished!

-Ryan


----------



## Lakc

I keep looking at TIG welders, and thats one of the reasons right there. Too bad Summit doesnt sell mandrel bends in 3/16. ;D


----------



## gbritnell

Steve,
Nice looking flanges. I don't know how much you have TIG welded stainless but it warps terribly. My exhausts are stainless (TIG welded) and I made a fixture to bolt everything together prior to welding. The welding went fine but when I unbolted them from the fixture, wow, did they ever spring. I rebolted 2 of the flanges back to the fixture and then heated the pipe between them and the other 2 outlets and tried to bend them back. It worked somewhat but I had to take a skim cut off of the flanges and elongate a couple of the holes. My suggestion would be to silver solder them together. With nice tight joints it wouldn't take much solder to fuse them together and it might save you a lot of grief.


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> My suggestion would be to silver solder them together. With nice tight joints it wouldn't take much solder to fuse them together and it might save you a lot of grief.




When I bought the soldering paste for the spark plugs I got some stainless flux. It's a liquidy stuff but supposed to do the trick. I still have a bunch of silver brazing rod.


Silvaloy
http://www.silvaloy.com/docs/Tech Sheets/wjt-td-Silvaloy 15.pdf

And Dynaflow
http://under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?products_id=83

From what I have read the silvaloy would be the better choice.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
I read through the specs for the Silvaloy and they don't recommend it for ferrous metals because of the higher heat needed for melting.
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> I read through the specs for the Silvaloy and they don't recommend it for ferrous metals because of the higher heat needed for melting.
> George




Then the two I have are no good, what should i get?


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
I found this.
http://www.bellmanmelcor.com/silvaloy_A-50N.htm
George


----------



## Lakc

Thats like McMaster 76965A64 at $56/oz. Is there any special reason to choose the non-cadmium version?


----------



## gbritnell

If you go to the Harris site at the following link there is a box at the top that asks what types of metal you are brazing. Put in steel or stainless to steel and it will give you there selections of silver braze materials. 
http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Brazing.aspx
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> If you go to the Harris site at the following link there is a box at the top that asks what types of metal you are brazing. Put in steel or stainless to steel and it will give you there selections of silver braze materials.
> http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Brazing.aspx
> George



Thanks G!!

I think i'm going to stop in at the local Airgas and see what they have in stock. They are supposed to stock Harris products.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Scratch water pump off the list. Instead of tapping a hole to thread a fitting in the pump, I decided to recycle the fitting in the water neck and just solder it in. I had to sand blast the paint off and the rest was easy. 







Still going to need some paint but the pump is 100%


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well Gentlemen, life has been kicking me in the pants lately. Enough has happened that I won't be able to continue with the build for at least 3-4 weeks. I know a lot of you have been waiting for drawings for a while now. I am going to release the set but I want everybody to know the situation before spending your hard earned.

First I have a secret agent who has been modeling the engine in Solidworks. He has drawn the entire engine with the exception of the intake and a few bushings. Doing this he has alerted me to a dozen or more missing dimensions and areas that needed more detail. 

I have also built my parts to my own drawings catching problems and making subtle improvements along the way. I have not built the radiator or fuel tank but they are not much different than the Peewee parts so I am sure they will work fine. That being said, there are still parts of the drawing that I am not 100% sure of because I have not built all the parts. As of right now I would not change anything about the set.

When I started this project it was with the plan to make a V8 that was less complex than the current designs out there and smaller for the folks with smaller machines than a Bridgeport and 48 inch lathe. While that was accomplished, don't be fooled into thinking this is an easy project. The block, heads, and intake are very complex. This project is not intended as a beginner project. I'm into this thing one year and still can see 3 more before completion. 

The drawings are of the engine only. They do not include the blower. There are 68 pages that include the engine, radiator, fuel tank, and display box. I have included drawings to make the cam using the offset fixture and cutting chart. I also have included drawings for the fixture to heat treat the rings if you decide to make the rings that way.

Also know that this is the first time I have ever tried anything like this. I have exhausted every effort to make them the best quality that I could possibly make them. While I think they in very good shape some might think otherwise. Please know that once I send the file there can be no refunds. 

After all that if you can't wait any longer you can send $50USD to me via Paypal. You will then receive a PDF file containing the 68 pages. The file will be sent within 24 hours. 

[email protected]

It might sound like I'm trying to talk you guys out of it but I just want to be up front and let everybody know where I'm at.


----------



## gbritnell

Steve,
 I know exactly what you're talking about. You think that you have included every dimension needed to make a part only to find out from, in my case, a buyer. I then adjust the drawing, make new copies and try and send them to everyone who has purchased a set of plans from me. My 4 cylinder OHV engine has 21 sheets so I can well understand how yours has 68. 
 When I worked on 'the drawing board' we always had checkers. When you got done with a drawing they would 'check' your work. Not to make you look bad but they realized when you were drawing something and made a mistake it was generally easier for someone else to catch it. 
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> I know exactly what you're talking about. You think that you have included every dimension needed to make a part only to find out from, in my case, a buyer. I then adjust the drawing, make new copies and try and send them to everyone who has purchased a set of plans from me.



Hey!! I just sent you an email like 2 minutes ago. 

That's why I let someone else draw them. He wanted the drawings "right now" and I needed someone to check my work so it worked out good for both sides. Sorry about the long disclaimer but being the first time doing anything like this, I'm a bit nervous. I figure if I do this paypal I will have everybody's email address. If updates are needed, everybody will get them via email almost instantly.


----------



## Dave G

Hi Steve, I'm going through the same with the Rattler. My experience is with reading prints and not drawing them and now I have a new found appreciation for genuine draftsmen. Metalmad ( Pete ) has found a few mistakes in my dwgs and I have corrected them as he progresses with his build. I agree, it is very difficult to find your own mistakes and finding someone to proof read them is necessary. I can only imagine the difficulties of drawing a V-8 engine as my engine is just a single and it was more than i had anticipated. The challenge you have taken on is enormous, first designing then building then releasing your dwgs for the rest of us to use. The amount of money spent on the same by any large automotive company would be beyond any of our imaginations I believe. So I applaud your effort and anyone who criticizes should try it themselves. Thank you for taking the time to document your engine and good luck with your endeavor, Dave


----------



## Brian Rupnow

I'm going to weigh in on this one. Even after 46 years of designing and detailing machinery, I still occasionally miss a dimension. Although I create everything in 3D solids with Solidworks, and the detail drawings are "self generating" it is me who determines what dimensions are put on the drawings. Fortunately, I am able to save my Solidworks detail drawings as .dxf and .dwg drawings, and pretty-well all of my customers have some version of Autocad, so if I do miss a dimension, it is still possible for them to "measure" it on the .dxf or .dwg file. Occasionally I get a customer without any design/drafting software, and they want their drawings saved as .pdf files.--And I do get calls from their machine shops, asking for dimensions sometimes.----Brian


----------



## stevehuckss396

Dave G  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve, I'm going through the same with the Rattler. My experience is with reading prints and not drawing them and now I have a new found appreciation for genuine draftsmen. Metalmad ( Pete ) has found a few mistakes in my dwgs and I have corrected them as he progresses with his build. I agree, it is very difficult to find your own mistakes and finding someone to proof read them is necessary. I can only imagine the difficulties of drawing a V-8 engine as my engine is just a single and it was more than i had anticipated. The challenge you have taken on is enormous, first designing then building then releasing your dwgs for the rest of us to use. The amount of money spent on the same by any large automotive company would be beyond any of our imaginations I believe. So I applaud your effort and anyone who criticizes should try it themselves. Thank you for taking the time to document your engine and good luck with your endeavor, Dave



Thanks Dave. It's a bit nerve racking when you first release them. I have been getting some great feedback. Right off the bat there was an email about a missing dimension. Heart sank a little. I looked and it was there. Thank God!


----------



## Lesmo

Hi Steve,

I have followed this build from page 1, after coming across a link on Mikes Models website back in Feb this year, when I was toying with the idea of building a model myself.
I am still staggered that anyone could undertake the design and build of something so complex as a V8, particularly given the small a scale of the components. The quality of those components reflects excellent workmanship, and certainly gives me a benchmark at which aim.

I look forward to further installments in the future, when things get back to normal for you. 

Cheers Les.  :bow:

Ps. 
I could do with a few bucket loads of your patience, if you have any to spare.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lesmo  said:
			
		

> I could do with a few bucket loads of your patience, if you have any to spare.



I have more than the average person so don't be afraid to ask anything.


----------



## steamer

Seriously NICE plans there Steve. :bow: :bow: I'll give em a once over too...

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I have had 2 people tell me they have completely modeled the engine and one more who has only a few pieces to go. They have reported the same missing dimension on the head. Other than that I think I'm out of the woods on the drawings. I don't see them changing much after this one update. The fact that it could be drawn by 3 people makes me believe there is enough info to build to completion. The plans have been updated to version 1.01. I'm going to wait a few weeks to see if anything else pops up and send out a fresh set to those who have purchased already.

Other than that i'm going to stick to the original plan of finishing the V8 project and then finishing the blower conversion. Hopefully I'll get back at it next week!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Scratch fuel tank off the list!

Work was cancelled for the day so i made the 2 end caps for the fuel tank. They are just 2 slugs of brass but if you want to increase the capacity of the tank the ends could be bored out.







After polishing the tubing the holes were drilled for the filler neck and outlet fitting. I didn't call out the holes in the drawings because I felt everybody has a personal preference as to where the fittings go. The fittings were then soldered in from the inside.







I cant remember where i saw this (may have been here) but the inside wall gets fluxed and a piece of solder is wrapped around the inside of the tank. The end cap is fluxed and installed. The prepared end is set on the table and a torch heats until the solder melts and bonds that end. 







The same process is used on the other end and then the tank gets soldered to the mount bar. I rubbed it a little on the buffer. There is alot more buffing to do but you get the idea.


----------



## kcmillin

Nice Tank Steve!

What are you using for fuel line? That nipple is awfully small. 

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Nice Tank Steve!
> 
> What are you using for fuel line? That nipple is awfully small.
> 
> Kel



1/16th tubing.


----------



## stevehuckss396

The tank is mounted. I made the mount posts using the same process as the motor mounts. I am happy with the mount. The tank is rock solid.


----------



## Lesmo

The tank's not only rock solid, but is a thing of beauty, and totally in keeping the rest of it.
I like the soldering method, another idea to tuck away.

Cheers Les.  :bow:


----------



## cfellows

Looking real nice, Steve. How can you resist the urge to try and start it? I would be cobbling things together at this point so I could try it out!

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> How can you resist the urge to try and start it? I would be cobbling things together at this point so I could try it out!



It's been 13 months so no reason to rush now. If I get the urge, I just walk over to the other bench and start the V4. I'm waiting for a friend to get the tubing bender finished. When he does the exhaust will be addressed and then I will have to figure out how to make sparkplug boots. I'm going to try to get these 2 items done soon and then make an attempt to start it. Now that the plans are released I don't feel like I need to rush anymore. I'm a bit relieved. I'm going to start working on the radiator and hope the tubing bender gets done soon.


----------



## Lakc

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Looking real nice, Steve. How can you resist the urge to try and start it? I would be cobbling things together at this point so I could try it out!
> 
> Chuck



Its nice to know I am in good company with that thought, Chuck.

Brass and buffing wheels, they go together like peanut butter and jelly. ;D Steve that looks awesome!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Its nice to know I am in good company with that thought, Chuck.
> 
> Brass and buffing wheels, they go together like peanut butter and jelly. ;D Steve that looks awesome!



I had PB&J for lunch today.

BTW

I have completed the fixtures for the radiator. I have to believe there will be a high speed run to the hobby shop for some tubing and 1/2 inch wide fin stock.


----------



## Lakc

<---- Grabs popcorn!
Never seen this done before, this is gonna be fun.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> <---- Grabs popcorn!
> Never seen this done before, this is gonna be fun.



I had popcorn last night.


----------



## T70MkIII

I've never seen a radiator buildup either. I'm watching, bourbon in hand...


----------



## T70MkIII

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> When I started this project it was with the plan to make a V8 that was less complex than the current designs out there and smaller for the folks with smaller machines than a Bridgeport and 48 inch lathe.



Steve, I have my finger poised over the PayPal "Send Money" button. Before I mash that sucker down, can I build the Demon with a Seig X2 mill and 7x12 lathe?


----------



## stevehuckss396

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> Steve, I have my finger poised over the PayPal "Send Money" button. Before I mash that sucker down, can I build the Demon with a Seig X2 mill and 7x12 lathe?




There are a few things that will be difficult. One that comes to mind would be boring the crank and cam bores. They are 1/2 and 5/8 inch bores that are 5 inches deep. Hard to do in a tiny mill but might be doable in the lathe with a boring bar between centers. If you are creative and get thru making the block the other parts should be no trouble.

The intent was to design a small V8 for the guys with smaller machines. Harder than i thought but doable. 

All that being said, I don't know! Being honest!


----------



## stevehuckss396

T70MkIII  said:
			
		

> I've never seen a radiator buildup either. I'm watching, bourbon in hand...



Had Burbon for lunch today! Kidding!!

It figures, I am one brass slat short and one piece of tubing short. I have been buying brass a little at a time in preperation for this. Go to the hobby store and clean out the last 5 pieces they have because they only stock 5 at a time. One more trip and I would have had it covered. Looks like that high speed run is on for tomorrow.


----------



## T70MkIII

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Had Burbon for lunch today! ...


Glad to hear it! *beer*

Re boring bar in the lathe - I was having similar thoughts. I know this build isn't for the inexperienced, faint of heart or terminally dense, but I'm going to order your plans anyway.


----------



## Lakc

Oddly enough, if you order the right size pieces from Mcmaster, you get K&S. Thankfully, most hardware stores have that ubiquitious rack of goodies as well.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I made the trip to the hobby store and bought the balance of the needed brass. I cut all my pieces up and prepped the end plates.







I loaded the end plates into the recess in the fixture.







Then all the fins are loaded up. I cut the fins about .100 longer than is needed. After assembly the plan is to mill the fins to size.






Then the fixture is pinched in the vise to align the fins in the fixture and tightened up.







Next the holes are drilled thru. The tubing I bought was running a bit large so I bumped up my drill size to .003 larger than the tubing. Then the step in the side is milled on both sides







Now the pieces get loaded into the other fixture. When they come out of the drilling fixture make sure they stay in a stack and do not flip them end for end. If you keep them straight the tubes will slide right thru the stack and into place. I made the tubes extra long also so I will need to mill them to size later. I placed all the fins into the slots and slid the first tube thru the stack. Then I placed the top piece of the fixture on the stack.







Then the remaining tubes are slid into the stack. I managed to soft solder the fins to the outside tubes but I cant get enough heat to finish the end plates. Seems I'll be looking for a new torch.


----------



## metalmad

looking good Steve :bow: :bow:
Pete


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
The radiator construction looks good. It looks like your setup plates are aluminum. I have tried to do similar things in the past and found that the aluminum just sucks the heat away from what you are doing. It might be well worth the time spent to make your guide plates from 12L or the like. The steel gets hot but doesn't dissipate the heat like aluminum. 
George


----------



## ttrikalin

I always wondered how you would make the radiator... very nice... This build is too good... 

tom in MA.


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> The radiator construction looks good. It looks like your setup plates are aluminum. I have tried to do similar things in the past and found that the aluminum just sucks the heat away from what you are doing. It might be well worth the time spent to make your guide plates from 12L or the like. The steel gets hot but doesn't dissipate the heat like aluminum.
> George



I was going to silver solder the end plates on. That way when I soft solder the tanks on I wont unsolder the end plates. I was worried that I would silver solder the steel to the brass.


----------



## GailInNM

Still following along, Steve.
Very nice.
Congratulations on the nice comments in editorial section of current modelenginenews.org.
Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Congratulations on the nice comments in editorial section of current modelenginenews.org.



Thanks Mr Graham! Ron has been very kind to me over the years.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Made the tanks for the radiator today. Started out by milling the pockets out in some 1/2 X 1/2 inch brass.







Then manually I milled the piece to length.







Then I milled the angles in the ends of the tanks.







Then I proceeded to drill the wrong size holes in the tank for the fittings!!! AAARRRRGGGG!!! 







I think im just going to make fittings that fit the holes rather than make new tanks. Not happy!!


----------



## kvom

You have to have an oops now and then to keep us from having too great an inferiority complex.  :

FWIW, you could fix the tubes to the fins with green loctite, which holds up to 400+ degrees.

Excellent work.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kvom  said:
			
		

> You have to have an oops now and then to keep us from having too great an inferiority complex. :
> 
> FWIW, you could fix the tubes to the fins with green loctite, which holds up to 400+ degrees.
> 
> Excellent work.



After the tubes are in I have to solder the tanks on. I might hit that temp so I really need to solder the tubes in with a hotter solder than what I will use for the tanks.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Yesterday = bad!!

I came home from work today ready to start on the fittings for the radiator. Chucked up a piece of round, looked over at the tanks, unchucked the round, walked over and tossed the tanks in the trash. I couldn't stand the sight of those giant holes in the side. 

Spent the day making 4 new tanks.












I'll do fittings maybe thursday


----------



## Fingers

Still following along here I admire your dedication to detail :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Fingers  said:
			
		

> Still following along here I admire your dedication to detail :bow:



Thank you!!

I made all my tank fittings for the radiator. Will have to wait to assemble. I bought a torch but have not had a chance to get the bottles filled.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Thank you!!
> 
> I made all my tank fittings for the radiator. Will have to wait to assemble. I bought a torch but have not had a chance to get the bottles filled.


I need my argon bottle recerted, know of any place open on Saturdays? 20 years old and only filled about 5 times, I would use it a lot more if it was a TIG...


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Awesome work. Awesome thread (and very enjoyable).


----------



## Speedy

hi Steve, I really admire your work.
I have a question on your radiator. are you soldering the fins only to the last tubes?
or is every tube soldered to each fin. 

looking forward to your response and more updates


----------



## stevehuckss396

Speedy  said:
			
		

> hi Steve, I really admire your work.
> I have a question on your radiator. are you soldering the fins only to the last tubes?
> or is every tube soldered to each fin.
> 
> looking forward to your response and more updates



I just spot them to the 2 outer most tubes. That keeps them from moving around. If you tack them to every tube there would be an increase in cooling but I doubt it would make much of a difference. 

I'm going to stop after work and see if i can get my tanks filled and maybe get the core done this week.

Thanks!!!


----------



## kuhncw

Hi Steve,

As always, I'm enjoying your build thread.

Did you make or buy valve springs for the V8s? I looked through your thread, but must have missed it.

Thanks.

Chuck Kuhn


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> 
> As always, I'm enjoying your build thread.
> 
> Did you make or buy valve springs for the V8s? I looked through your thread, but must have missed it.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chuck Kuhn



I bought them. They are cheap and I had enough to do without learning how to make springs.

Will I see you in Zanesville?


----------



## kuhncw

Hi Steve,


Buying the valve springs makes sense to me.

I should have asked in the previous post, but where did you buy the springs?

Zanesville is on my list for October. I always enjoy it.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> 
> 
> Buying the valve springs makes sense to me.
> 
> I should have asked in the previous post, but where did you buy the springs?
> 
> Zanesville is on my list for October. I always enjoy it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck Kuhn




Best price was Grainger and they are close to the house so no shipping.


----------



## steamin

Greetings, in regards to soldering your radiator. Here is a trick I have used with a complex assembly such as yours. I have a old electric hot plate that I place a thin sheet of aluminum on. I pre-flux all the joints and seams and place the assembly on the hot plate. Depending on the size of the assembly will dictate the heating time. Anyway, the idea is the hot plate brings the assembly up to an even temperature throughout. No hot spots from a torch and certainly no charred flux that may cause the solder not to adhere in those difficult to reach places. The solder I use is Eutectic 157. It is a lead base solder with a liquid flux. It works extremely well with brass and copper and soldering dissimilar metals such as brass and stainless steel. Just throwing in my two cents worth.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks Steamin, I'll look into the 157.


----------



## hobby

Clever work on your radiater.
You got a real nice build going there, with this engine.

Keep up the great work Thm:


----------



## Lakc

That actually might be a job for a heat treat oven.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hey everybody.

I found a few minutes today and worked on the radiator. The oxy/acy is alot hotter than the mapp gas. Took me a while to get used to the extra heat. I used the silver solder to install the fittings into the tanks. Then the end plates were soldered onto the tubes on both ends of the core. The fins were soldered onto the 2 outer most tubes. 







After all that the fins were evened up on the belt sander and the tubes were milled down in the mill using a 1/8 inch endmill and taking very light cuts.







If you purchased the plans you are probably wondering why the tanks have so many pockets. The second pocket is the pocket that the end plate sits in. The first pocket forms a reservoir for the solder to bead into.







The tanks are both installed the same way.







Then the top and bottom channels are made and soldered to the tanks on the ends.







Then I sand blasted the entire thing to clean it up. Now I need to make the mounting posts and clips.


----------



## mklotz

Damn, that's neat work!


----------



## crab

Beautiful radiator!Are you going to add a puke tube?
Crab


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Unbelievable. Excellent work.
I had no idea it was that small.


----------



## Mosey

I like it!

I suggest we add a new word to the model machinist language... "Hucks".
 To hucks something would be to make it incredibly well, tiny, and beautiful.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks everybody!!


I have been kicking around the idea of a "puke tube". Not sure yet.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> I suggest we add a new word to the model machinist language... "Hucks".
> To hucks something would be to make it incredibly well, tiny, and beautiful.




Is that like a Mulligan or a Munson?

How are you doing Mosey? Did'nt I send you some radiator info? Did you build one yet?


----------



## Mosey

I'm doing fine! Watching you is a real pleasure. 
You sent me some info on the water pump, and I'm closing in on it. The fan is up next.
Keep the chips flying!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> I'm doing fine! Watching you is a real pleasure.
> You sent me some info on the water pump, and I'm closing in on it. The fan is up next.
> Keep the chips flying!




I need to make a fan real soon also.


----------



## ShedBoy

Beautiful radiator thanks for sharing :bow: :bow: :bow:

Brock


----------



## Mosey

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I need to make a fan real soon also.


Well, here is a sketch of my proposed fan, turned out of Alum. What do you think?
All dimens are as per Bob Shores plans.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mine is real close to yours.


----------



## metalmad

that is soooo nice Steve :bow: :bow:
Pete


----------



## Mosey

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Mine is real close to yours.



What angle do you like for the blades? How about 7 degrees?
Mosey


----------



## stevehuckss396

i think i'm going to cnc some curves in the blades


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> What angle do you like for the blades? How about 7 degrees?
> Mosey



Mine are pitched at 30 degrees


----------



## Mosey

Curves are not fair! :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Curves are not fair! :big:



Yes they are, I called it first!! ;D


----------



## Mosey

Do i have to make a special milling cutter, or buy some kind of rounding over mill to cut convex curves? Arghh! :'( ???


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Do i have to make a special milling cutter, or buy some kind of rounding over mill to cut convex curves? Arghh! :'( ???



Without CNC I would just go with the flat blades. I made a flat fan for the Peewee and it looks and works real good. I would go with the 30 degree angle.


----------



## Mosey

Flat it is, though if it goes well, I will round the blade edges. :


----------



## kcmillin

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Do i have to make a special milling cutter, or buy some kind of rounding over mill to cut convex curves? Arghh! :'( ???



Using a shop press and a 3/8" round bar as a die, I pressed the fins curve on. You will need a "Half Hole" equal to the diameter of the Die Rod plus the thickness of the material being used for the fan to act as a female die.

That is how I did it any way.

Kelly
ND


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> i think i'm going to cnc some curves in the blades


Your giving me naughty ideas about CNC'ing, stop that! 
Think you can cnc an airfoil section on a single propeller blade?


----------



## Mosey

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Using a shop press and a 3/8" round bar as a die, I pressed the fins curve on. You will need a "Half Hole" equal to the diameter of the Die Rod plus the thickness of the material being used for the fan to act as a female die.
> 
> That is how I did it any way.
> 
> Kelly
> ND


Wow, that is clever. I shall have a look at this method.


----------



## jthulin

Mosey, you could also consider using a pliable material such as soft rubber in place of the "half hole". Makes the tooling much simpler and it is "one size fits all". We have done this at work many times when the depth of the bend is not too deep. I think the rubber we use is old conveyor belting. Just food for thought.


----------



## Mosey

Another great idea. I am bogged at my other job so I won't be back in the chips for a week or so. Then, lot's of fan blades will fly.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Your giving me naughty ideas about CNC'ing, stop that!
> Think you can cnc an airfoil section on a single propeller blade?



I have no idea what you are talking about but if you have a 3D model (stl) file and it's less than 10 inches long then yes.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well Mosey got me all fired up on the fan so that's what I did today. I did make some curved blades but i'm not fond of them. Should have gone with the straight blades.


----------



## steamer

it looks DAMN SEXY! to me!
 :bow:
Dave


----------



## trumpy81

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Well Mosey got me all fired up on the fan so that's what I did today. I did make some curved blades but i'm not fond of them. Should have gone with the straight blades.



Steve, I would simply round off the blade ends or give them an elliptical shape like the wing tips on a Spitfire. Other than that they look fantastic!! and certainly much better than my non-existent ones .... :big:

All hail Steve the great one :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> All hail Steve the great one :bow:




All but one. She laughed when she read this one.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
Here's a couple of pics of my fan. This was copied from a full sized fan. It doesn't have a curve to it but rather a twist on the blades to give it pitch. I think the new plastic fans have a curve to them.
George


----------



## jurciks71

do you know how to make the ignition because i don't could you tell me how to make it i would be very happy if you would


----------



## Mosey

Steve,
Give yourself a break. 
That's a nice fan. I might like to have more blades, like 8 or so. And do round off the tips. I give it 7 Hucks out of a possible 10.
Of course on the Britnell scale, I just don't know.
Mosey


----------



## kcmillin

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> Give yourself a break.
> That's a nice fan. I might like to have more blades, like 8 or so. And do round off the tips. I give it 7 Hucks out of a possible 10.
> Of course on the Britnell scale, I just don't know.
> Mosey



Would that be the Britnell Hardness scale :big: :big:

sorry, could't resist

Kel


----------



## Lakc

It looks good, but the most important part is if it is suitably strong, stiff, and free of defects that may lead to stress concentrations. Having almost been decapitated by a 1977 Mercury Cougar flex fan once, I have a great respect for spinny thingys.


----------



## stevehuckss396

jurciks71  said:
			
		

> do you know how to make the ignition because i don't could you tell me how to make it i would be very happy if you would



I don't make the ignition. I purchase mine fron Roy Sholl at    http://www.cncengines.com/

They are easy to us and work very well!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> I might like to have more blades, like 8 or so. And do round off the tips. I give it 7 Hucks out of a possible 10.



I didn't like the other one any way. What do you give me on this one Mosey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Would that be the Britnell Hardness scale :big: :big:



There are two Britnell scales, (1) how hard he makes it look and (2) how hard it really is.


----------



## Mosey

Steve,
11. (on a scale of 10)
I now know not to joke with the Joker!
Mosey

Seriously, nice.


----------



## steamer

That would be a "Damn,Damn Sexy" from the peanut gallery....

Dave


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, that's perfect!! 10 on the Huck scale!! No idea on the Britnell scale, but I bet it's HIGH!! :big:

 your humble servant oh masterful one :bow:


----------



## Mosey

Since we are building fans, I thought you might enjoy seeing a real fan.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Since we are building fans, I thought you might enjoy seeing a real fan.




I almost did a 9 blade fan but the endmill was getting a bit small. What is that fan on? Duelly pickup?


----------



## Mosey

All it says is that it's a GM pickup.


----------



## Mosey

I guess the gauntlet has been thrown. I will try to build a 9-blader next week when I get back to the shop. I have some tiny mills that I found in a box for circuit boards. 1/8", 1/16"?
This is fun.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> I guess the gauntlet has been thrown. I will try to build a 9-blader next week when I get back to the shop. I have some tiny mills that I found in a box for circuit boards. 1/8", 1/16"?
> This is fun.



I used a 1/16 ball nose


----------



## Mosey

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I used a 1/16 ball nose


I don't know how I can mill the angled blades in a manual mill if they are wider at the tip than the hub. I'm thinking that it might be best to cut the (9) blades out of a single thin sheet of alum, and then press each blade individually into an angle or a curved form, then bolt the 9-blade sheet onto the hub. Ideas?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> I don't know how I can mill the angled blades in a manual mill if they are wider at the tip than the hub. I'm thinking that it might be best to cut the (9) blades out of a single thin sheet of alum, and then press each blade individually into an angle or a curved form, then bolt the 9-blade sheet onto the hub. Ideas?



When I did mine manually I made a square (4 blades) block that the fan was bolted to. Then the block was held at 30 degrees in an angle vise and each blade was cut. Then the block was rotated to the next blade. To do it that way you would need to make a 9 sided block so you can index to the next blade.


----------



## Mosey

My plan is to hold the fan blank in the rotary table, tilt to 30 degrees, then mill each blade, one at a time, rotating the table for each blade (40 degrees) for 9 blades.
We shall see next week.
First project on the list to is to make some adaptor blocks to raise the drivers seat in a German car. 4 Blocks, 3 different versions, German car. One is complicated, angular mill job. German car. Fun, though.


----------



## Lakc

Note that those 9 blades are assymetrical, yet balanced. I am sure there is more then one reason for that, but it cuts down on fan noise.


----------



## Mosey

Lakc  said:
			
		

> Note that those 9 blades are assymetrical, yet balanced. I am sure there is more then one reason for that, but it cuts down on fan noise.


Curiously assymetric, aren't they? I suspect that my engine will not have a problem because of running too fast. I want fan noise! 

You see the problem that if the blades are wider at the tip than the hub, then it will be hairy to mill them unless they are flat, and then get twisted into the angle?


----------



## trumpy81

Mosey  said:
			
		

> You see the problem that if the blades are wider at the tip than the hub, then it will be hairy to mill them unless they are flat, and then get twisted into the angle?



Mosey, cutting the blades shouldn't be too difficult although you will probably have to cut both sides. Think of the cube within a cube puzzle when you map them out


----------



## stevehuckss396

Getting closer!

I broke a sparkplug so I need to make a few more then it on to the exhaust pipes.


----------



## stevehuckss396

If anybody is interested I am making the plans available for the blower conversion. They will be $25USD via Paypal to [email protected]

They are 27 pages that include the blower, intake manifold, all linkage parts, parts list, ect.


----------



## Mosey

Keep it coming! I love it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

OK here it comes!!

I have started installing the ignition system. The hall sensor is superglued in the distributor body. The magnets are pressed into the disk and loc-tite is also used. I put some temperary wires on the ignition and hooked up one of the #8-40 plugs. I gapped the plug at .022. All seems to be good so far.

FYI George, I hooked up one of the Honeywell sensors and could not tell the differance in performance. I did not use any test equipment other than my eyes and ears. (only took me a year)


I use one of Roy Sholls WYSWYG ignitions. I also use his hall sensor to trigger the board and his 10KV wire. 



http://www.cncengines.com/ic.html



Here is a short video (Poor quality) of the test. I know how you guy's like video!!!



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6GR1RBrITw[/ame]


----------



## cfellows

Heck, who needs an engine. That little assembly by itself it really slick. I could see that sitting on a bookshelf in my study, waiting for someone to come along and flick it over a few times! Pretty nice, Steve!

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Heck, who needs an engine. That little assembly by itself it really slick. I could see that sitting on a bookshelf in my study, waiting for someone to come along and flick it over a few times! Pretty nice, Steve!
> 
> Chuck




It's funny that you said that. I thought about mounting a plug and using a small RC motor to spin the distributor and fire the plug. I thought it would be cool to have on the table at NAMES. Wouldn't be all that safe so I canceled the project.


----------



## Mosey

Take a look at a couple of pictures of my fan in progress over on Silver Bullet in Progress.


----------



## lee9966

Steve, this is great. Very enjoyable to watch your progress. Thanks for taking the time to document as you go!

The fixtures for making the radiator are nice to see, I done lurned stuff here.


Lee


----------



## stevehuckss396

The fixtures for making the radiator are nice to see, I done lurned stuff here.


That's good to hear. Glad you learned and if you have ANY questions about anything in this thread, just ask!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

I'm in a bit of a lazy mood today but I did go out and make some test pieces to try to tame the ignition wires. I think I have figured out what I need so I'm going to redo the pieces and cut out a new set.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Finally got the final coats on the box over the last few days.


----------



## ozzie46

*AWESOME * just *AWESOME!!* :bow: :bow:


 Ron


----------



## stevehuckss396

ozzie46  said:
			
		

> *AWESOME * just *AWESOME!!* :bow: :bow:
> 
> 
> Ron




Thanks Ron!!


----------



## Mosey

Steve,
When will you furnish some pops? Or better, some roar.
Another 10 hucks!!
Inspirational and educational.
Mosey


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Inspirational and educational.
> Mosey




Thanks Mosey! After I get the blower motor running I think I'm going to work on the silver bullet or Hurcules.


----------



## kcmillin

It is looking real great Steve! Truly a work of art. :bow:

What do you have left to do? It seems like your real close to getting some 'Music' from her.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> What do you have left to do? It seems like your real close to getting some 'Music' from her.
> 
> Kel



Hello Kel!

Lets see, I have a half dozen gaskets to make. Still need to something about sparkplug boots. Of course exhaust pipes but I did get a oxy/acy torch so that will be good. I broke a plug so I need to make a few more sparkplugs.


----------



## gbritnell

Hi Steve,
I haven't been staying away on purpose. I've been following along like the others and admiring the progress on your engine. What can I say that hasn't been said? I even went to the online thesaurus to see if I could come up with some descriptive words that haven't been used. All I can say is :bow: :bow: :bow: woohoo1
George


----------



## LongRat

Great progress Steve.
I have a feeling this engine design will become 'the one' that people aspire to work up to, considering the size, availability of detailed info from your thread and your superb plans. And the fact that it's a fat V8. Great work, and I am itching to hear it run.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Dont worry G I know you are busy with the H&M engines.

LongRat, Thank you. The intent was a small V8 for those with small machines. I really didn't think it would be followed to this extent.

Thank you both!!


----------



## hobby

Beautiful Craftsmanship.

Great ideas in your jigs, and setups.
Keep up the excellence.


----------



## waynes world

pm inbound mr hucks.

wayne


----------



## stevehuckss396

waynes world  said:
			
		

> pm inbound mr hucks.
> 
> wayne




Wayne asked the question via PM but for those who missed it or was wondering, the plans are emailed to you after purchase in PDF format. I think going this route saves me alot of printing and postage and goes a long way to keeping the cost down.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I have made the LAST gasket. The bellhousing adapter has a water passage in it so it needs a gasket. I made the last fixture but I couldn't use the part to cut the outside shape because the gasket needs to follow the shape of the oil pan. I made the fixture duel sided with a plate in the shape of the gasket.







As always a piece of material is sandwiched between both plates.







The bolt holes are run thru with a drill bit and the big hole is cut out with a razor blade. The gasket is removed and this is what i had.







The piece is then moved to the right side of the fixture and sandwiched again.







The outer shape is cut with a razor blade and the gasket is ready to be installed.


----------



## T70MkIII

Thanks for sharing your gasket procedure - nicely done.


----------



## kcmillin

Hey Steve, have you found a solution for your spark plug boots? 

FWIW I was roaming the hardware store today and I found this

http://www.google.com/products/cata...&sa=X&ei=cd86Toa3GePjsQKHouUP&ved=0CFQQ8wIwAg

I purchased some and currently have a good size blob of it drying out to see if a large hunk will dry, it seems like it might be a good product to use for this. I will see though, one it sets up that is. Not sure what to coat the mold with though?


----------



## Lakc

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> I purchased some and currently have a good size blob of it drying out to see if a large hunk will dry, it seems like it might be a good product to use for this. I will see though, one it sets up that is. Not sure what to coat the mold with though?


That usually shrinks a good bit, but that can be dealt with. Wax coating would be my first thought.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> FWIW I was roaming the hardware store today and I found this




Keep me posted. I'm interested!!!


----------



## Lakc

Home depot, end of the electrical aisle.


----------



## kcmillin

Hey Steve,

It has been a few hours since the blob, it flattened out after a bit and got about 1/16" thick. It feels and stretches like electrical tape and did not stick to the quarter I had it on. I also made a makeshift mold from a bar of acetal. I made a pocket 1/2" wide x 3/8" deep. I filled it to the top with this stuff. The top turned into a bit of a bowl and is dry on the surface. I checked the middle and it is still liquidy. I will check again in the morning to see if it sets up. 

I also tried brushing it on like the picture, brushing it on. This indeed does work well. It is kinda hard to get a non lumpy surface with the brush, but a spat on finger works OK, implementing some kind of spatula might work too. There could be a better way. Brushing it on requires a few coats, so this might aid in the anti-lumping. 

I think in thick sections it will get a bit squishy, and not hard rubber like found on spark plug boots. 

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Hey Steve,
> 
> It has been a few hours since the blob, it flattened out after a bit and got about 1/16" thick. It feels and stretches like electrical tape and did not stick to the quarter I had it on. I also made a makeshift mold from a bar of acetal. I made a pocket 1/2" wide x 3/8" deep. I filled it to the top with this stuff. The top turned into a bit of a bowl and is dry on the surface. I checked the middle and it is still liquidy. I will check again in the morning to see if it sets up.
> 
> I also tried brushing it on like the picture, brushing it on. This indeed does work well. It is kinda hard to get a non lumpy surface with the brush, but a spat on finger works OK, implementing some kind of spatula might work too. There could be a better way. Brushing it on requires a few coats, so this might aid in the anti-lumping.
> 
> I think in thick sections it will get a bit squishy, and not hard rubber like found on spark plug boots.
> 
> Kel




It sounds worth a try to me. Im going to pick some up this weekend.


----------



## ShedBoy

Try dipping the internal shape you want in then let it dry hanging. It will form a point on the bottom which can be cut off. It should be able to be dipped repeatedly to built up in thickness. It looks and sounds similar to a product we get in OZ. I used to use it to brush onto electrcai terminals in marine application but also used it to coat some lead lugs and just cut off the excess around the eye. Seemed to work okay. I was thinking about this issue before and was considering sikaflex and a split mould. Keep us informed.
Brock


----------



## stevehuckss396

I was actually thinking about casting it. I was waiting to see if kels 1/2 X 3/8 blob sets up.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Just a mini update. The throttle lever is done and installed. I used a RC linkage kit for the ball and socket. Now the exhaust pipes are of the highest priority.


----------



## kcmillin

Steve,

I checked the blob today. It indeed shrunk quite a bit. The diameter stayed about 1/2", but it shrunk down in the mold from about 3/8" to 3/32". My brushed on try worked OK. The shrinking took out most of the lumpynes. It works very well as an insulator for the spark. I coated a brass tube and was able to touch it without shock during testing.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> 
> I checked the blob today. It indeed shrunk quite a bit. The diameter stayed about 1/2", but it shrunk down in the mold from about 3/8" to 3/32". My brushed on try worked OK. The shrinking took out most of the lumpynes. It works very well as an insulator for the spark. I coated a brass tube and was able to touch it without shock during testing.
> 
> Kel



So painted on it's ok but it connot be used in a mold. I'm still going to get some and experiment with it.

Thanks Kel!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

I have started on the sparkplug boot project. I am going to attempt to make a mold of some sort and cast rubber into the mold. I haven't decided weather to cast the boots onto the wires or make a boot to slip on the wire. I like the thought of reuseable boots but assembly would be alot easier with the wires molded in.

I have never done anything like this, Never seen anybody do it, or have any idea of how to go about it. Other than that it should be easy!

Here are a few pix of the master. From these the mold should be able to be made. I am not sure if I'm going to gate it side to side or front to back so I have not done anything with that yet.


----------



## Noitoen

There is a self vulcanizing rubber tape that electricians use. I has no glue and is activated by stretching and winding around the joint. When it reacts, its impossible to separate and the joints are waterproof. I suppose you could cut it into thin strips and build it up around a mould to create the boots.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Noitoen  said:
			
		

> There is a self vulcanizing rubber tape that electricians use. I has no glue and is activated by stretching and winding around the joint. When it reacts, its impossible to separate and the joints are waterproof. I suppose you could cut it into thin strips and build it up around a mould to create the boots.




That would be Scotch 130C. Problem would be when you pull the core out of the center the tape would collapse and you would'nt get it on the plugs. If I turn a metal core to wrap the tape on it would defeat the purpose of the boot by moving the spark further down the insulator.

I still want to play around with the paint on product that Kel found.


----------



## kcmillin

Hey Steve,

You mold master looks great.

FWIW I was doing some more experimenting with the liquid tape. I painted 5 sides of an aluminum cube with three coats. I did not do anything to the aluminum, I just grabbed it out of the scrap pile and used as is, without cleaning. Once it all set up I was able to remove it from the aluminum block in one piece. 

Using the paint on method I think your mold master would work as a mold, but you would have to re-make it to the inside dimensions.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

kcmillin  said:
			
		

> Using the paint on method I think your mold master would work as a mold, but you would have to re-make it to the inside dimensions.



That's no big deal because I need to make the core parts if I pour the rubber anyway. Almost made them today but it was too hot.

My friend Ron has made the bender and made some test bends on the stainless tubing. The tubing required being filled with cerro bend but the bends look good enough for me. There are some mods he wants to make and we will finish the headers.


----------



## trumpy81

Steve, have you considered using an automotive 'Make A Gasket' silicon for the spark plug boots. It usually hardens to a fairly firm rubber after a day or two. There would be little or no shrinkage with it. A little heat, probably less than 90F, would help during the curing process, although it probably wouldn't be necessary. 

The stuff I'm thinking off usually starts to harden the moment you open the tube, so you would want to make hundreds at a time (you could flog 'em to ya mates to cover the cost of the tube then  ), otherwise the tube will harden completely in a month or two. Well that's what happens whenever I open a tube anyhow :big:

A large syringe would help to inject the stuff into the mold and cleanup is handled with petrol (gasoline to you  ) while the stuff is still wet. After it has hardened the only way to remove it is with a blow torch :big: 

A little wax and talcum powder (baby powder) could be used to as a mold release or perhaps a little motor oil.

Anyhow, just a thought. ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

I have spoke with a few folks that say it won't setup in a mold. The stuff needs air to cure and oxy cant get to it when in a mold. Thats why the epoxy stuff is looking like what I will be using. Have you tried it?


----------



## Hllrsr

If you don't mind limited colors, the local Michaels store has a liquid casting rubber I've used before. Unfortunately, they only have it in red, and I haven't found anything that will give a decent color change to it.

Or, would something like this stuff work?

http://www.michaels.com/EasyMold-Si...=products-generalcrafts-basicsupplies&start=1

Or this from Hobby Lobby:

http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/mold-builder-liquid-latex-30452/

They also have color additives..

Love the project, unfortunately I need to get some cash flow happening before getting the plans...


Iain


----------



## stevehuckss396

That stuff looks promising.


----------



## ShedBoy

If you keep your mould and former smooth sikaflex 221 should harden up okay. May need a release agent though.

Iain, head over to the welcome section and introduce yourself. Thanks for the silicone putty advice, just need to find a supplier in my corner of the globe.

Brock


----------



## Paulsv

You might want to check out these guys:

http://www.smooth-on.com/

If they have an outlet near you, you might want to stop in and talk to them. I found them very helpful and knowledgeable when I needed to cast some replacement plastic gears.


----------



## stevehuckss396

There is a distributor less than 9 miles from here.

Thanks!


----------



## kustomkb

Hey Steve, your engine is looking great!

Check out Clarence's stuff. He is working on a scale shovel head and has cast a lot of plastic parts for his scale motorcycles, turn signals etc.

Very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful guy;

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/celias/


----------



## trumpy81

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I have spoke with a few folks that say it won't setup in a mold. The stuff needs air to cure and oxy cant get to it when in a mold. Thats why the epoxy stuff is looking like what I will be using. Have you tried it?



Steve, You do raise a good point. I haven't tried it, but I was planning to. When you mold it you would need a core or two. No reason the core/s couldn't be porous. 

Oh well, back to the drawing board :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> No reason the core/s couldn't be porous.



I was going to turn the core and polish it smooth so the material will release after it sets up.


----------



## jpeter

Steve and I have talked about different types of RTV but I said I didn't want to spend the money on the 2-part mix cuz I'd use just a little and the rest would spoil. I tried to cast hardware store gasket RTV but I couldn't get it to harden in the mold. Lots of suppliers, Micro-Mart for one, sell 2 part casting RTV that I think would be perfect for casting boots. I was hoping someone would buy some to try and report on the results. I'd do it but I'm too cheap to buy it. I've got the boot mold machined and ready to go for 1/4 - 32 plugs.


----------



## HPME

Steve, How about Plasti Dip for your plug boots?
I believe there was an article in Strictly IC about using Plasti Dip for spark plug boots, however I don't remember the issue.
Daryl


----------



## stevehuckss396

jpeter  said:
			
		

> Steve and I have talked about different types of RTV but I said I didn't want to spend the money on the 2-part mix cuz I'd use just a little and the rest would spoil. I tried to cast hardware store gasket RTV but I couldn't get it to harden in the mold. Lots of suppliers, Micro-Mart for one, sell 2 part casting RTV that I think would be perfect for casting boots. I was hoping someone would buy some to try and report on the results. I'd do it but I'm too cheap to buy it. I've got the boot mold machined and ready to go for 1/4 - 32 plugs.




You don't need a boot mold for the 1/4-32 plugs. I just get the Dorman vacuum fittings and shorten them up. They work great but they don't make them any smaller.

Are you coming to the meeting Wednesday? If so bring the mold. I would like to see it.


----------



## stevehuckss396

HPME  said:
			
		

> Steve, How about Plasti Dip for your plug boots?
> I believe there was an article in Strictly IC about using Plasti Dip for spark plug boots, however I don't remember the issue.
> Daryl



I have the entire run. I will look it up in the index!

Thanks


----------



## jpeter

> You don't need a boot mold for the 1/4-32 plugs. I just get the Dorman vacuum fittings and shorten them up. They work great but they don't make them any smaller.
> 
> Are you coming to the meeting Wednesday? If so bring the mold. I would like to see it.



Wed. might be tough. The local church has a big doings going on Wednesday. We'll see.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Heads were final torqued as well as the manifold. The last gasket was installed on the bell housing adapter and the rear section was assembled. All the rockers have been adjusted and snugged up.


----------



## awJCKDup

i gotta see the torque wrench you used----is it a beam type ? What was the head torque?


----------



## stevehuckss396

awJCKDup  said:
			
		

> i gotta see the torque wrench you used----is it a beam type ? What was the head torque?




It was an allen type 
The torque spec was "Good and snug"

All kidding aside i do torque from center working my way to the ends and the heads I tighten in 3 steps. First pass is just to set the head on the part, then snug, then good and snug. Old habit.


----------



## kcmillin

Sounds Like Your getting close. How are the headers coming along?

I was doing more experimenting with the liquid tape. I figured you might be interested. I took some pictures this time. I did not put anything on the "molds", just lathered some goop on.

Here is a Penny With Three coats. It came off real easy, and is some tough stuff.






Here is a scrap distributor I put 5 coats on. 





And here it is separated from the mold. If you look close you can see that the inside if the distributor is partially there too. 






For less than $5, I am amazed with this stuff.

Kel


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks Kel!

I am going to get some for sure.

I went to Ron's house Saturday and made all the first bends for all the pipes. Couldn't get close enough to the first bend with the second so he wanted to modify the clamp. I would imagine we will be back in biz Monday or Tuesday.

Ron wanted to make the bender because he might make custom stainless exhaust pipes for people who build the Little Demon. I figured we could make my pipes with it to test out his bender. 

There is another Ron in my club who might make 8-40 spark plugs for sale. I e-mailed Dale Detrich to see if he wanted to make them but no reply.


----------



## Mosey

What are your plans for a mount for the engine? I've seen some great engine designs set on old lamp parts for mounts. How about a gallery of engine mounts?
I would love to see that V8 on a pair of Chevy frame rails.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> What are your plans for a mount for the engine? I've seen some great engine designs set on old lamp parts for mounts. How about a gallery of engine mounts?
> I would love to see that V8 on a pair of Chevy frame rails.



If you go back to post #983 there is a picture of the engine, radiator, and fuel tank mounted. I dont know about a chevy frame but i have kicked around the idea of a ford frame. That's why i'm making T-bucket style headers.


----------



## Mosey

Those steam guys really make wonderful frames for their locos, and Ford is just fine. Give it some thought, as I think the engine would rock on a ladder frame. A chance for you to go even higher.


----------



## GailInNM

Steve,
In a past life I designed a few simple transfer molds. This afternoon I built a transfer mold to match my small spark plug. Material is Quick-Sil silicon putty. This is probably the same stuff that Ian suggested.
http://www.michaels.com/EasyMold-Si...=products-generalcrafts-basicsupplies&start=1

I have used it for 5 or more years for small molds and other purposes. I is available from many jewelery makers suppliers in packages from 3 ounces up and Micro-Mark carries in 1 pound kits as RTV Silicone Mold Putty.
The photos show the natural color, but I have colored it black with no adverse electrical or physical effects using colorant for epoxy and polyurethane resins.

I should have put the plug wire higher, but it looked ok on the drawing. I can start a new thread on making the mold and molding so as to not dilute your thread. Cycle time on the mold is about 10 to 15 minutes to mold and for the material to set up enough to demold.

Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> I can start a new thread on making the mold and molding so as to not dilute your thread. Cycle time on the mold is about 10 to 15 minutes to mold and for the material to set up enough to demold.



Mr. Graham I would be extremely interested in seeing how you do your boots. Making the mold seems to be the mystical part of the whole process. If you would write it up in a seperate thread in as much detail as you can, I'm sure it would be appreciated by a lot more than just me.


----------



## cyclerider57

I have a two part rubber that I use for carbon fibre molds. It is a slight grey color but I would imagine that adding a pigment to it that I could get it to turn black. I'll get you some more information once I get back from Wisconsin but one of you is more than welcome to have some for a test sample.
-Jordan


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks for the offer. I might just take you up on it.


----------



## ironman

Steve, I have used Smooth-On products to make molds and parts for my HO scale cars. Windshield Frames, Drivers, Exhaust pipes, Car and Truck Bodies. They might have something you can use. Here is their website.

http://www.smooth-on.com/

ironman (Ray)


----------



## GailInNM

I just got started on the how to for my method of molding boots at:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=15354.0

It will probably take a day or two to get the whole thing written.

Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks for the boot making thread. I for one learn more by seeing than I will ever learn reading about it so the more pix the better.


----------



## stevehuckss396

After reading the awesome thread on making sparkplug boots I have decided to give it a try. Tomorrow I am going to machine up the mold. I have ordered the same materials that were shown in the thread. I will post some photo's of the finished mold if all goes well tomorrow.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Got the first side of the mold made. I'm hoping to do the other half monday.


----------



## GailInNM

Steve,
Mold looks good, as your work always does.
How did you get that sharp corner in the bottom of the cavity?
Anxiously waiting to see your parts.
I suggest that you shoot a few with out coloring them to get a feel for the process.
Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> How did you get that sharp corner in the bottom of the cavity?
> 
> I suggest that you shoot a few with out coloring them to get a feel for the process.




I machined the cavity with a 1/32 ball mill. I figured a .016 radius on the corners might look good.

I was thinking the same thing about trying a few without color. Once I think I have the hang of it I was thinking about mixing up enough goop for about 10 boots. Then I can mix part A in, in single boot batches and the color should be real close thru out the run of 10.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I have broken my last 1/32 endmill due to some bad Gcode. I have ordered some more but don't see them getting here until Wed.

Stay tuned.


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Cambam breaking tools? Is it common?


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> Cambam breaking tools? Is it common?




Not at all. I went back and reposted the code and noticed a open polyline warning. I had to go back to alibre and clean up the model. After that I went back to Cambam and repost the code. This time no error so I will try it when my new endmills show up.

100% my error. I have never had a bad result with CamBam that wasn't my own fault and I have created hundreds of pieces of code. I have to say I think CamBam is the S$!t. Works great!!


----------



## ramkitty

wow, this is my grail project. I have spent the last day reading all 71 pages of this forum. : being stuck on a military course away from home is exciting.

 I started this year wanting to learn more about using my machine shop at work. I chose to go big and am starting with the kozo 040 switcher locomotive while I learn the basics and build my tool collection. I am currently using a 7x12 mini lathe with dro handles and I bought a x3 that I am almost done converting. 

I am wondering if the aerosol rtv would set in the enclosed location if it was flooded with co2 like how a casting core is set. Could make an interesting experiment despite this new method.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I don't have any of those materials on hand. 

I'm not sure How I would get the Co2 in the mold. Do you just blast it in like an air compressor?


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I'm not sure How I would get the Co2 in the mold. Do you just blast it in like an air compressor?



I had that same question come up when planning out sand cores. The troublesome but obvious answer was to head over to my favorite watering hole and bothering my friendly waitress for a co2 canister for a quick squirt. Then someone recently posted a delightfully simple solution, baking soda and vinegar...


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> I had that same question come up when planning out sand cores. The troublesome but obvious answer was to head over to my favorite watering hole and bothering my friendly waitress for a co2 canister for a quick squirt. Then someone recently posted a delightfully simple solution, baking soda and vinegar...




I think i'll stick with the 2 part rubber putty. I have new code and when the endmills hit the door i'll get back at it.

Good seeing you Wednesday!!

Steve


----------



## stevehuckss396

My endmills still have not shown up so I made a few more plugs. Now all the sparkplug holes are plugged. All the plugs are gaped. I'm going to try .025 gap and see if that works. I also made some wire holders to tame the ignition wires. I also filled the crankcase with oil.


----------



## gbritnell

Man-o-man, that sure is cool looking Steve! I like many others are getting antsy waiting for the day it makes noise.
George


----------



## kustomkb

> that sure is cool looking Steve!



No doubt!

Hurry up post man.


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Man-o-man, that sure is cool looking Steve! I like many others are getting antsy waiting for the day it makes noise.
> George



I'm right there with you. Once I get past the sparkplug boots it will be time to give it a try. The only part not made right now is the brass strip on the rotor inside the distributor.


----------



## stevehuckss396

KustomKB  said:
			
		

> Hurry up post man.



Yeah!!!!!!!


----------



## steamer

Damn Bubba...hurry up the suspense is killing me!

Dave


----------



## Lesmo

If it runs and sounds just half as good as it looks, you will be well pleased, not to mention the rest of us followers.

Les


----------



## Mosey

Ready!, Set!, ???????????????????? :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Damn Bubba...hurry up the suspense is killing me!
> 
> Dave




I hear ya guy's!! I hear ya! This is the worst part. I have to wait until tools and materials get here. Months ago it would have been no big deal. I could just work on something else. I don't have many something elses. List of parts to be completed.

Brass electrode for the rotor in the distributor.

Headers, Tubing is all bent, going to have a welding shop silver solder them together. When the owner saw what they were for he lowered his price to a 6 pack. They also have all the correct rod and flux.

Sparkplug boots. Waiting on the endmills and 2 part rubber in the mail.

Thats it!!! It's killing me too!!


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I hear ya guy's!! I hear ya! This is the worst part. I have to wait until tools and materials get here. Months ago it would have been no big deal. I could just work on something else. I don't have many something elses. List of parts to be completed.
> 
> Brass electrode for the rotor in the distributor.
> 
> Headers, Tubing is all bent, going to have a welding shop silver solder them together. When the owner saw what they were for he lowered his price to a 6 pack. They also have all the correct rod and flux.
> 
> Sparkplug boots. Waiting on the endmills and 2 part rubber in the mail.
> 
> Thats it!!! It's killing me too!!




 ;D


----------



## Lakc

I wonder if the UPS guy realizes he is about to get mugged on Steve's porch? ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> I wonder if the UPS guy realizes he is about to get mugged on Steve's porch? ;D



I'm sure he does. Even he looks forward to dropping off packages after a few garage tours.


----------



## Lakc

Yeah, I treat my UPS guy like Santa Claus.


----------



## stevehuckss396




----------



## chrispare

that pic makes me want to drive down to you shop and DROOL all over it.

Words cant even describe it.


----------



## metalmad

WOW
I gotta have one :bow: :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks!!

The rubber showed up for the boots and the cutters made it here today for the mold. Tomorrow is my 25th so I won't be in the shop but come Wednesday, look out buddy!


----------



## kcmillin

Awesome Lookin Engine There Steve. 

That header looks incredible. :bow:

Kel


----------



## Speedy

EPIC!!!!!! ;D
now how can we describe the video you will soon be posting :big: :bow:


----------



## doc1955

Steve I know I haven't posted as often as I should on this thread but I amd just awstruck. I too look forward to seeing it start purring!
Super job simply beautiful!


----------



## kvom

waiting with bated breath.  :


----------



## Mosey

It will probably go viral all over the world! Little girls in the street in Bangladesh will be listening to the V8 run!! I can't stand the wait!


----------



## cfellows

Well, Steve, this one will be a tough one to top. Absolutely georgous!

Chuck


----------



## don-tucker

This has been a pleasure to follow,I second all that has been said.
Don


----------



## pcw

the only thing wrong with that engine is that it isnt mine. :bow:
pascal


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks everybody! Sparkplug boots are still on the list but the tools and material are here finally. Then its time to install the ignition electronics and start the long debugging process.

Getting close!!


----------



## Mosey

It would be very helpful for you to share some of your debugging process with the inexperienced pollywogs out here, thanks.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> It would be very helpful for you to share some of your debugging process with the inexperienced pollywogs out here, thanks.



There really is no set process. When I start with a new build here is what I do to find a good starting place.

1. Install camshaft
2. Install entire gear train.
3. Install degree wheel on crankshaft. (cheap plastic Office Max wheel will do)

(Set the timing on the camshaft)

4. Indicate #1 piston to top dead center.
5. Set pointer to zero degrees. (I use a coat hanger for a pointer held by a magnetic indicator holder.)
6. Rotate crank CCW 109 degrees.
7. Indicate #1 exhaust lobe to top dead center. (use distributor to turn cam)
8. Tighten set screw in cam gear.

(Set the position of the conductor on the rotor)

9. Rotate crankshaft to 37 degrees BTDC
10. Enable ignition system
11. Rotate distributor CCW until ignition sparks.
12. Super glue Electrode onto rotor between center and #1 wire

This is a good starting point with the cam in time and the spark going to the right spot and ignition timing in the ball park. Then the carb tweeking starts. I unscrew the needle until i see fuel being drawn from the tank. Then unscrew slowly from there if I hear some pops. Then it's what ever comes up or what ever it seems to need.

There are many ways to get one of these running. Everybody has to find there way. Ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. This is what works for me.


----------



## petertha

Hi Steve. Way back when you made your piston rings, you mentioned 500F for coating stage, then 4 hrs @1100F for the heat set stage. May I ask what kind of oven system you use/recommend for jobs like this? Do you also use this for heat treating self made tool steel type applications as well?


----------



## stevehuckss396

petertha  said:
			
		

> Hi Steve. Way back when you made your piston rings, you mentioned 500F for coating stage, then 4 hrs @1100F for the heat set stage. May I ask what kind of oven system you use/recommend for jobs like this? Do you also use this for heat treating self made tool steel type applications as well?




This is what I use. Got it on sale online and it's made in the usa.

http://www.paragonweb.com/XPRESS-Q-11A.cfm


----------



## stevehuckss396

Yesterday I made the second half of the boot mold. After being sent home from work because of a small fire and power failure in the refinery, I made the core pins and made a test run.








I followed the Gail Graham method from his thread. I could have mixed the material better. The color is not good. I think I pressed a little harder than I should have also. The result was great. I have made 5 boots now and they look better. I tried to color one with black pigment but after 1/2 hour in the mold it was still soft. Grey will look just fine.








They look a little big but so do the plugs so it is something i will learn to accept. I don't think I want to go any smaller.


----------



## Mosey

10.0 Hucks! Great! No less than expected, Maestro.


----------



## steamer

Looks great Steve!  Papa want big Vrooooom! ;D

Dave


----------



## metalmad

They will look great once installed, Steve :bow: :bow:
you must be starting to think about kicking her over soon ?
Pete


----------



## GailInNM

Looking better all the time, Steve. 
Glad the mold bit worked out for you, but sorry about the colorant did not work. If you tell me what colorant you tried that did not work I will edit the mold thread to include that information. In this hobby knowing what does not work is often times as important as knowing what does work.
Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

metalmad  said:
			
		

> you must be starting to think about kicking her over soon ?




Soon. I dont want to do that too early. I want everything to be set so I dont burn a wire or something. Cant just pop one out and pop one in. If i screw one up its a few hours to repair it. Get in a hurry and it might take longer.


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Looking better all the time, Steve.
> Glad the mold bit worked out for you, but sorry about the colorant did not work. If you tell me what colorant you tried that did not work I will edit the mold thread to include that information. In this hobby knowing what does not work is often times as important as knowing what does work.
> Gail in NM



I used the black dye you spec'ed in your post.


----------



## GailInNM

Thanks Steve and sorry about that. I will edit that part out.

Silicon can be a bit fussy but most pigments don't have much resin in the carrier compound so will work if they work OK with epoxy and polyester. 

I know you are not worried about it now, but if you want to do black boots later I can send you some of what I use from the "no name bottle". I figure that I have enough to last my lifetime plus 30 or 40 years. 

Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Thanks Steve and sorry about that. I will edit that part out.
> 
> Silicon can be a bit fussy but most pigments don't have much resin in the carrier compound so will work if they work OK with epoxy and polyester.
> 
> I know you are not worried about it now, but if you want to do black boots later I can send you some of what I use from the "no name bottle". I figure that I have enough to last my lifetime plus 30 or 40 years.
> 
> Gail in NM




Not worried about it. The boots are also made in light gray (MSD) so the color is correct. I'm going to work on getting the wires complete and go from there.

Thanks again for the thread on making boots. HUGE help!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

I had planned to make some kind of brass cap like the peewee project. I was searching the scrap box for some 1/8 inch brass and there was a piece of tubing in the box. I tried the id on a plug and it was a pretty good fit so i parted off 8 of them. I slipped the boot over the wire (harder than it sounds) and stripped the wire and tinned the end.







Then I tinned the piece of tubing. The drill bit was necessary to keep the tubing from sticking to the tip of the soldering iron.







Then the wire was soldered to the tubing as close to center as I could eyeball.







Then I made a small tool to insert into the tubing to help coax the end into the boot as the boot was pushed back to the end of the wire.






















Tomorrow I am going to make a high speed run to radio shack for some supplies to install the ignition electronics.


----------



## awJCKDup

Looking GREAT Steve, I like everyone else, am awaiting the start-up, drooling the entire time, and wishing it was mine.

John


----------



## steamer

Steamer Want Big Vroom!

 ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Steamer Want Big Vroom!




I know Steamer, so do I. I'm getting there! When there is a big Vroom you guy's will be the first to know, I promise!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

awJCKDup  said:
			
		

> Looking GREAT Steve, I like everyone else, am awaiting the start-up, drooling the entire time, and wishing it was mine.
> 
> John



Thanks John. I will get there soon but I am doing everything i can do not to rush and cause more problems. It's been almost 15 months, a few more days seem like nothing!

Thanks for checking in.


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I know Steamer, so do I. I'm getting there! When there is a big Vroom you guy's will be the first to know, I promise!!



I know Steve...but I've already used the "Damn Bubba" line.. ;D    ...Do what you gotta do buddy.

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> I know Steve...but I've already used the "Damn Bubba" line.. ;D   ...Do what you gotta do buddy.
> 
> Dave



You can recycle the Bubba line, I like the Bubba line, cracks me up!


----------



## steamer

You got it Bubba!.......I say Damn Bubba!....I can't wait to hear that baby purr!



....hows that?

 ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> You got it Bubba!.......I say Damn Bubba!....I can't wait to hear that baby purr!
> ....hows that?



Perfect!


----------



## steamer

*beer*


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well using the method described in the earlier thread I got everything set. Installed the electronics and gave it a crank. It started to pop right away so i asked the wife to go get the video camera. 

This is the actual first run of the Little Demon. The timing has not been set. The carb is about 1.5 turns out with 1 turn out on the air bleed screw. The rings are not seated the valves are not seated. Other than that it went pretty good. I'll have better video as soon as I get it running better.

14 months, 11 days.  

WooooooooooooooooooHoooooooooooooooo!!!!


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax4cuh2UdKU[/ame]


----------



## 90LX_Notch

Steve-

Awsome! Purely awsome! This has to be one of the most eagerly awaited moments in the history of HMEM.

_bob


----------



## pcw

send it to me, ill tune it further so it will run perfect, than i will keep it so you can built a new one    

just kidding, great engine.
pascal


----------



## kcmillin

Congratulations Steve!!!! That HAS to be a good Feeling! I was quite excited to see the Vid, and it was well worth the wait. I still have a smile on my face. ;D

Love the sound too!

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

Kel


----------



## Mosey

Congratulations Steve, on this truly terrific engine!! It even sounds like a V8.


----------



## stevehuckss396

pcw  said:
			
		

> send it to me, ill tune it further so it will run perfect, than i will keep it so you can built a new one
> 
> just kidding



No problem! I have had many similar offers in the past!!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Congratulations Steve, on this truly terrific engine!! It even sounds like a V8.



Just so you no Mosey, I followed that procedure exactly and it gets you in the ball park. The only guessing game is how far to unscrew the carb needle. 

Still a ways to go but some run time and tuning will get a better runner.


----------



## crab

Great engine Steve!! And it ran on the first try!! Thm:
Crab


----------



## ozzie46

MARVELOUS!!! I had no doubt.

 Excellent work Steve. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

 Ron


----------



## Trizza

Thats fantastic, Steve - you are an inspiration :bow: :bow:


----------



## GailInNM

Congratulations, Steve.
It is a major step when the fruits of many months of labor pay off.
The journey has been long and while I know that is almost over I certainly have enjoyed it.
Gail in NM


----------



## stevehuckss396

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> The journey has been long and while I know that is almost over.



Actually it's half way over. I still want to tackle the modular crankshaft and the blower. This thread will live a little longer.


----------



## Lakc

I just love the smell of grape gas in the morning. Smells like victory. :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Lakc  said:
			
		

> I just love the smell of grape gas in the morning. Smells like victory. :bow:




You don't forget anything do you.


----------



## Lakc

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> You don't forget anything do you.



Way waay more then I care to admit.  Congrats.


----------



## kustomkb

Congratulations Steve!

It already sounds great and I know it will only get better with break in and tuning.

Thanks for documenting such a great build and for the great package of drawings and notes.


----------



## gbritnell

Steve,
What can I say my friend. phenomenal You do us all proud. What kind of timing advance are you using initially? I would think that you should be up somewhere around 25-30 degrees?
Looking forward to when you get it cleaned out. I'll bet it will wail!!!!
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

gbritnell  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> What can I say my friend. phenomenal You do us all proud. What kind of timing advance are you using initially? I would think that you should be up somewhere around 25-30 degrees?
> Looking forward to when you get it cleaned out. I'll bet it will wail!!!!
> George



Well the peewee likes 35-40 so i set the crank to 35 BTDC and then rotate the distributor until the ignition sparks. That gets me close. I don't actually know where i'm at right now but i suspect somewhere between 30 - 40. 

Don't remember if I mentioned this but this was the actual first run. When I turned on the ignition and started cranking the engine started popping so I shut it off and asked the wife to grab the camera. Then I turned the fuel screw out another 1/2 turn and wham! She lit right up.

Hey G! Can you whip up another trans real quick? I'll buy ya lunch!!


----------



## cfellows

Ahhh, the day we've all been waiting for. Congratulations! That first run had to give you a heck of an adrenalin rush! Truly a great build.

Chuck


----------



## Maxine

What a GREAT thread! I learned a lot following you along over the last 14 months. Thanks for posting it all. Congrats on getting it running. Once I get a little more confident in my building skills I'll be ordering plans. Again, congrats!


----------



## steamer

Way to go Bubba!

Gotta hijack the mss laptop that has speakers......Steamer want big Vroom Bubba! ;D


Congrats Steve, there wasn't any doubt it would fire up like that with you building it! :bow: :bow:

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Ahhh, the day we've all been waiting for. Congratulations! That first run had to give you a heck of an adrenalin rush! Truly a great build.
> 
> Chuck




Thanks Chuck. I have been working on this thing for about 2-1/2 years now. It is great to finally hear some noise.




			
				Maxine  said:
			
		

> What a GREAT thread! I learned a lot following you along over the last 14 months. Thanks for posting it all.



That makes going thru the photographing worth it. I try to share when I remember to take pix.




			
				steamer  said:
			
		

> Steamer want big Vroom Bubba!



Not yet but soon. I turned the distributor a little and it improoved so I turned it a little more. I'm getting a half decent idle and it wants to rev alot more than it wanted to initally. I'm going to hit it again tomorrow and see if I can make things even better and get you that big Vroom.


----------



## kvom

congrats!  :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

kvom  said:
			
		

> congrats! :bow:



Thank you!  When do I get a ride on the Kozo?


----------



## Leucetius

Congratulations steve - sounds great! Thanks for sharing your voyage and for the plans


----------



## awJCKDup

Just got home and logged on to see if you gave it run yet. Excellant, great concept, execution, and a mighty fine build log. Thanks so much for letting us tag along. What a great engine and runner. You certainly did yourself proud......Looking forward to the tuning, and building the blower motor. 

John


----------



## metalmad

Congrats Steve 
Well done :bow: :bow:
Im having trouble getting the vid to work for me, but will keep trying til I see it 
I dont know if its my computer or the net 
I had lots of trouble getting on the HMEM this morning too!
Again Fantastic job !!
Sounds great ,Its a goer :bow: :bow:
Pete


----------



## PhillyVa

Great Job Steve...just fine tuning left now... :bow:

Philly


----------



## kuhncw

Steve, congratulations on a fine piece of work. Thanks for all the effort that went into your build thread! Looking forward to more video when you get it smoothed out. 

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn


----------



## picks27t

Great build Steve am looking forward to see it.

Bob Columbus


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, that was one monumental moment and I enjoyed every minute of it th_wav

I'm putting in my order for plans now ;D

All hail the great one :bow:


----------



## dsquire

Steve

What everyone else has said. It is hard to add much to that. In your video you showed the engine. I bet if you would have showed your face we would have seen the worlds biggest smile. Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder Steve. :bow: :bow:

Cheers 

Don


----------



## Maryak

Steve,

YOU DA MAN. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Best Regards
Bob


----------



## waynes world

awsome, awsome engine you have done yourself proud ,look forward to hitting the tools after my relocation. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks everybody!!

There is still a ways to go but the bulk is out of the way. Still need to do something with the throttle rod so I can set the idle. I think i'm going to pop the brass tube out of the sparkplug boots and slit them and close them up a little for a tighter fit. Basically get things sorted out and get ready for Zanesville.


----------



## keith5700

Steve, that engine sounds wicked! I'll be happy if mine sounds like that.
Congrats on a great build thread. If it wasn't for your engine I wouldn't have got anywhere with mine.
Well done again. Cheers.

Keith.


----------



## Dave G

I don't think I'll be going to Zaneville this year if I have to listen to that thing all day, NOT! Just kidding Steve and I can't wait to see and hear it in the flesh. You have raised the bar a few notches and should be very proud. Very nice and an inspiration to all. Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Dave G  said:
			
		

> I don't think I'll be going to Zaneville this year if I have to listen to that thing all day, NOT! Just kidding Steve and I can't wait to see and hear it in the flesh. You have raised the bar a few notches and should be very proud. Very nice and an inspiration to all. Dave




I'll take that as a Huge! compliment as I have seen your work.



			
				keith5700  said:
			
		

> Steve, that engine sounds wicked! I'll be happy if mine sounds like that.




It's starting to get better. The smoke is starting to clear up. The engine is starting to respond to the throttle. I had to make the linkage today so I could set some kind of idle. I still need to get an Oring so i can get the water pump going and extend my run time so i can do some serious tuning.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

Congratulations!!! The look is absolutely fantastic and the sound... no words!!!

:bow:

You and your projects are a big inspiration for me and I believe that for all us!!!

Best Regards,

Alexandre


----------



## lazylathe

WOW!!!!! th_wav

I have been keeping an eye on this build but have said nothing since it is so out of my league it is not even funny!!!

It looks, sounds and is AMAZING!!!! :big:

Would love to see the video of it just purring away!!!!

Congratulations on an excellent engine Steve!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Andrew


----------



## stevehuckss396

lazylathe  said:
			
		

> Would love to see the video of it just purring away!!!!



Thanks again to all!

I will get a better video when things are sorted out. I'll get a few runs on it and loosen things up and then post some good stuff. I still owe Steamer a big Vroom!!


----------



## steamer

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Thanks again to all!
> 
> I will get a better video when things are sorted out. I'll get a few runs on it and loosen things up and then post some good stuff. I still owe Steamer a big Vroom!!




You bet your (@*#$&( YOU DO!  ;D

oOOOOOOH Goody goody goody goody!

Dave


----------



## LongRat

A pivotal moment there Steve. Well done. What fuel are you running it on in the video?


----------



## crankshafter

Hi Steve.
From the bottom of my hart Steve: THANK YOU FOR letting us follow you on this journy from bar stock to the finnished engine. th_wav

CS
One day when my skills allows...............................


----------



## stevehuckss396

LongRat  said:
			
		

> A pivotal moment there Steve. Well done. What fuel are you running it on in the video?



Unleaded gas with 10% WD40


----------



## stevehuckss396

OK Steamer, this is the biggest Vroom this Little Demon can muster. I'm getting good responce from the throttle. I think my valves have seated. Things are loosening up. It'll get better at idle after a few more runs.

SHE'S A RUNNER!!


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwVfNobk8r0[/ame]


----------



## Lakc

Thats just crying out for a dyno session. Think you can make 4 tiny butterflies and a teeny tiny vacuum diaphram? Im pretty sure I have the whole SIC dyno project in my archives.


----------



## metalmad

Really getting there now :bow: :bow:
still sounds tight, but a few runs will fix that ;D
Fantastic
Pete


----------



## ShedBoy

:bow: :bow: :bow:
Even sounds like a big one. Beautiful work.

Brock


----------



## steamer

Way to go Steve!  Thanks!  Steamer Like!
 ;D

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Way to go Steve! Thanks! Steamer Like!
> ;D
> 
> Dave



That ones for you Buddy!


----------



## steamer

Woooooopa! Woooooopa!.....followed by nice lumpy cam.....I can't stop listening to it!
 :bow: :bow: :bow:
That's what ya call a 8 cylinder orchestra Bubba!


Thanks again Steve!

Dave


----------



## rustyknife

That's incredible. You are very talented and I'm so glad you shared this with us.

Regards,
Eric


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Woooooopa! Woooooopa!.....followed by nice lumpy cam.....I can't stop listening to it!




Once the engine gets some runtime and loosens up, that cam is going to sound real cool!

Tomorrow I'm going to fill the radiator and see if the pump pumps.

I took it to the hardware store to get an o-ring/fan belt so I would'nt have to guess. Got stopped twice trying to get to the regester by shoppers. Wide eyes in that store.


----------



## stevehuckss396

rustyknife  said:
			
		

> That's incredible. You are very talented and I'm so glad you shared this with us.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric



Your welcome Eric! Thanks for following along!


----------



## waynes world

that sounds very tuff would be nice with a blower whirring away with it and the zoomies. you cant beat the sound of a v8 and hot cam combo im loving it steve

now ya need to build a t bucket for it.???


----------



## steamer

oh I like lumpy cam.....makes a statement..."Don't )#@* with me"...or at least words and music to that affect.

 ;D

Dave


----------



## rcfreak177

G'day Steve,

I just returned home from working away to catch up on the progress. I have been waiting for the day when I could hear this engine run and must say I love it A truly inspirational build thread. Maybe the sound will kick my but into gear to continue on with my engine. I must say thank you very much for the hints and tips I have picked up throughout this build. You must be proud.


Regards Baz  ;D


----------



## ewok

that is one sexc sounding motor! After i have got a few more engines under my belt i am going to built me a v8!


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Sorry I'm late to the party. Congratulations! Now, I have to decide if I'm going to make it to NAMES again net year to see it in person.


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> Sorry I'm late to the party. Congratulations! Now, I have to decide if I'm going to make it to NAMES again net year to see it in person.



I'll be in Zanesville Ohio in October. 

Mid-East Ohio Model Engineering Exposition 

http://www.deboltmachine.com/id13.html


----------



## mu38&Bg#

I wish I could make it. I'll have to wait.


----------



## Lesmo

That is one very nice piece of engineering art. Your talent is visible in all aspects of the build. Congratulations Steve.

Les


----------



## mu38&Bg#

Is the second one at a similar state of completion?

What blows me away is that this project began over a year ago and you have two engines built while I just have some drawings for engines sketched up. Boy I need to get in the shop more and compute less.


----------



## T70MkIII

I'm away from the forum for a few days and I miss the most important moment of all! Congratulations, Steve - it is so good to hear it run.


----------



## 90LX_Notch

Steve,

After the hell we've been through the last few days with the huricane (shop had 2 inches of H2O) and being cutoff, the better running video brought a smile to my face. Thank you. 

Bob


----------



## stevehuckss396

dieselpilot  said:
			
		

> Is the second one at a similar state of completion?



Not even close. There is only a finished block and heads basically. I did make 2 of alot of stuff along the way but I need to make everything in the block. It's about 35%


----------



## stevehuckss396

90LX_Notch  said:
			
		

> the better running video brought a smile to my face. Thank you.



That makes it all worth it right there!!!


----------



## jonesie

steve very impressive build, and top notch work. also thanks for the good build follow along. again great job thanks jonesie


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well the Little Demon V8 project is officially done. Now don't panic, I do plan to carry on to finish the blower motor but I need to take a few days off and relax. I will come back to this thread and post pics when progress starts.

I want to thank everyone who posted kind remarks, suggestions, questions, comments, and help of all kinds. You guy's know who you are. There are way too many to list. Getting past things like crankshafts and sparkplug boots would have been impossible without you.

Many thanks!!!

Steve Huck
AKA stevehuckss396






It took just short of 15 months.


----------



## Paulsv

That's a real jewel you have there!


----------



## ref1ection

Really nice work. Once I get a few other things competed I will definitely be ordering the plans for this.

Ray


----------



## gbritnell

Steve,
When people are awestruck by some of the work they see they comment with adjectives like, beautiful, fantastic, amazing, impressive, incredible and on and on. I wanted to use a word that hadn't been used but still described the work you have done on your engine but couldn't really come up with anything. 
Let me just say that it's a mechanical piece of art. From design to build to detailing you have done a superb job. I remember a statement that you made a long time ago, something to the effect of wanting to do work like me as you progressed. Well my friend you have (to slightly distort an old phrase) "met the competition and they are your's". 
Nice work.
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

Very Kind gentlemen, thank you.


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, very well done!

I sent an email to your hotmail address requesting plans ... no reply so far  

I hope it's because you've been flooded with orders :big:


----------



## Leucetius

I can't stop saying that: excellent work - be proud! As was said in cnc-forum: this will be a standard in IC engine building for endless years to come. I think I'll split the sound out of your video and let it run in a loop the whole day


----------



## steamer

No words left other than "Damn Bubba!"

Steve that is "A Mechanical Work Of Art"

 :bow: :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> I sent an email to your hotmail address requesting plans ... no reply so far



I'm sorry Trumpy but I have'nt recieved an email from you.

If you wish to get plans you can send money via Paypal to [email protected]

Engine is $50USD
Blower is $25USD

If that does'nt work for you because you don't use paypal send an email to the above wowway address we can figure out another way.


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Thanks Steve. You should get an email shortly ... I hope :big:

My previous email is probably drifting around the internet somewhere. It'll probably show up in a year or two ... :big:


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> GDay All,
> 
> Thanks Steve. You should get an email shortly ... I hope :big:
> 
> My previous email is probably drifting around the internet somewhere. It'll probably show up in a year or two ... :big:




Did you send it to wowway or hotmail? Don't see one from you on either. Just sent myself a test mail from the wowway link and received it immediately. Maybe your provider is slugish and i'll get them both soon.


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Sorry Steve, I was busy with some other chores. Sending it now.

Edit:
Just sent it to the wowway address.


----------



## stevehuckss396

You should have the plans in your email inbox. Any problems just email or leave me a PM

Have fun!!


----------



## kvom

Steve,

I'm thinking you could add "value" to the plans by including the DXF and CamBam files you used to make the CNC'ed parts. I'm unlikely to try to build this engine myself (not enough patience), but I'd sure want those files if I decided to do so.

Anytime you get a compliment like that from George you know you've done something special.


----------



## stevehuckss396

kvom  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> 
> I'm thinking you could add "value" to the plans by including the DXF and CamBam files you used to make the CNC'ed parts. I'm unlikely to try to build this engine myself (not enough patience), but I'd sure want those files if I decided to do so.
> 
> Anytime you get a compliment like that from George you know you've done something special.



That may be true but then I would have to create a file for each CB file explaining what tool to use when and what size piece of stock I used and how to fixture it. It's alot more work than just zipping them up.

As far as George goes, reading what he wrote was like Babe Ruth telling you "nice swing". It's like Tiger Woods telling you "nice putt". Kind words from those you look up to and want to be like, very special.


----------



## Mosey

How about a new member category like "MM", "Master Machinist", or "Master Member"? :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## Steve_Withnell

Master Machinist has a nice ring to it!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> How about a new member category like "MM", "Master Machinist", or "Master Member"? :bow: :bow: :bow:




I'm not comfortable with that one. I am a long way from master anything. If you go back thru the thread you will see the 5 tries it took to make the crankshaft. There were more than a few pieces that took a few tries. 

How about "Too stupid to know when to quit"


Thanks everybody for the positive remarks. Very much appreciated.


----------



## RonC9876

Hey Steve: I've followed your build all along without making any comments. I like to give credit to people in person and don't like to type with a passion. I just had to step in here and tell you that you are not giving yourself enough credit. Your engine is beautiful and you are as much of a "Master Machinist" as any I know. Sure you had a few do overs. But you knew what to do to remake the part right. GREAT WORK. I was saving that for the Zanesville show but who knows if I'll get there this year. My head is still hanging low over my Novi build. It's got to come apart again and I hate to think about it. Everything seems right with it, but it just won't run consistently. I'm thinking now about making a new set of heads with a different combustion chamber shape. I'm about out of ideas. I've got a lot of builds under my belt and never came across a problem I couldn't fix. This thing just doesn't make sense. Hope to see you happily showing your engine in October. Just find another scent for your fuel. Grape is not one of my favorites. Got any Cherry or Orange? Ron Colonna


----------



## stevehuckss396

RonC9876  said:
			
		

> Hey Steve: I've followed your build all along without making any comments. Ron Colonna




Hello Ron. I'll be there for sure and I will make sure to come say hello.

I have no doubt you will figure out the Novi. 


Thank you!


----------



## steamer

Steve,

Part of what makes anyone successful in any pursuit, both professionally and in the hobby sense, is persistence.

You stated that you were "too dumb to quit".....I disagree.

You were smart enough to maintain the vision and mature enough to not get dragged down by 
"negative internal talk"....You said..."Well that didn't work....OK why?....what could I do differently?

YOU followed that up with a plan of action, and execution....sometimes a you were successful right then and there...other times....no...but you asked the question of again of yourself....Why?....and again came up with a plan of action based on LOGIC and not EMOTION. 

This can not be denied....we all witnessed it.   

Emotion Displaces Logic.....its one of my mantra's that foolishly on my part took 47 years to figure out...... ;D

Being a Master, IMHO is about having Courage and confidence.

Courage to dream something and then....MAKE IT HAPPEN...  The later is always the scary part


I would agree with Ron....Don't short change your self....Being a master at anything is about understanding, but also and more importantly.....Being Persistant and having courage and confidence in your self!


To your point....being a Master is not a title....but a sustained effort....you've shown that to all of us, as have many others here....that is the bigger lesson.


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Being a Master, IMHO is about having Courage and confidence.
> 
> Courage to dream something and then....MAKE IT HAPPEN...




Thanks Steamer!! 

I have been searching for a good quote for my profile. I have had 3 in the last week down there. I think this one is the best of all of them. Hit me right where I live.


----------



## Metal Mickey

Congratulations Steve on a wonderful achievement! Its not just the machining I admire but also the design skills and use of Alibre 3D Cad. The three separate disciplines mastered to bring about an engine that springs into life!

Once again well done Steve (and thanks for the help you gave to me on the camshafts for my Seal(s)) and perhaps we need to add Teacher as well!

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## dalem9

If we sit on the couch all day and do nothing we don't do anything wrong.But if we do something and it turns out wrong at least we learn that it does not work that way. If we made no misstakes we would have no metal in the scrap box for odd pieces when we need them.Keep on keeping on. Dale


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thank you both!

Mickey, you missed a very important detail. Another successful camshaft!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Hello everybody. I was just out in the garage looking at the parts for the second engine. There are about 60% of the parts made. The block and oilpan are 100% ready so I am going to make the crankshaft and internals first. I'm going to make another run at the modular crankshaft. It sounds crazy to put that crank in the blown motor but i figure it still needs to be proven that it will work and if it will hold up in the blower motor, it will be fine for both. Things are going to start off slow but it will start to happen.


HERE WE GO AGAIN!


----------



## Mosey

Steve,
could you say a few words, when appropriate, about how you fit the crank and cam to their bearings, and what you like for clearances, ie., do you run them with an electric drill to bed in the bearings, or what?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Steve,
> could you say a few words, when appropriate, about how you fit the crank and cam to their bearings, and what you like for clearances, ie., do you run them with an electric drill to bed in the bearings, or what?



I can try to remember to do that. I typically drill and ream my bearings and then make the crank journals .001 - .002 smaller than the bearings. If its a ball bearing I try to get a slip fit .0005 - .001 smaller.

This engine I ran in for about 10 minutes in the lathe with the tail of the crank in a collet.

Tomorrow I am going to tear down the V8 and make a video of the step by step process of how i time the cam and distributor and get the brass strip on the rotor in the right place.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Here is what we are shooting for.


----------



## dsquire

Steve

You sure don't take long to rest up for the next round of fun. I'll be along for the ride as usual. Good luck with it all, looking forward to hearing that blower whine. :bow:

Cheers 

Don (94896)​


----------



## stevehuckss396

I have some inquires about how to set the timing for the cam and ignition. I made this video to show how I go about it. The video is really bad as I was having a hard time working on the engine and filming at the same time. I hope it will help some of you who asked about it.

While watching the video I noticed that when the wheel slipped out of my hand I only rotated the wheel 99 degrees and not 109. While you guy's are watching this thing I'll be out in the garage doing it all over again.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0EdqCtvhy4[/ame]


----------



## Mosey

Aplause!  woohoo1


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Aplause! woohoo1




Did that help Mosey? I thought a video rather than a bunch of text or with a bunch of text would make things more clear.


----------



## Mosey

Solid gold, Steve!
Timing them is something that rarely gets talked about, but is critically important and can drive those of us less-burdened-with-experience nuts. The video is nominated for an AA.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Mosey  said:
			
		

> Solid gold, Steve!
> Timing them is something that rarely gets talked about, but is critically important and can drive those of us less-burdened-with-experience nuts. The video is nominated for an AA.



I'm glad! It's one of those things that takes hours to explain or 20 minutes to show you. You should know also that the 109 degrees could change depending on the cam specs but that is a good number for a cam with 110 degrees lobe seperation.


----------



## stevehuckss396

I got rained out at work today so I took a few hours in the garage. I guess this would be the official kickoff of the Version 2, Small V8. It is the same engine with a roots blower. I would guess this one will go a bit faster than the first but the way work is I don't know if I'll get back in the garage this month, or next month.

My friend Ron wants to bend the tubing in his new bender for the zoomies so i made the flanges today. The last time I made them I drilled and reamed the holes for the pipes. That didn't work well in .063 thick plate so this time I milled the holes .010 smaller and then reamed them to 5/16. Still not perfect bit I am alot happier doing them this way.


----------



## Lakc

Looks slick, actually looks rule die'ed.


----------



## Chitownmachine

Super good Video Steve!! Thanks so much!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Chitownmachine  said:
			
		

> Super good Video Steve!! Thanks so much!



Hope it helps.


----------



## agmachado

Hi Steve,

Really fantastic!!! :bow:

th_wwp

Cheers,

Alexandre


----------



## stevehuckss396

I have started on the modular crankshaft. I made a few changes to the way I am making them. I turned one end of each piece and then instead of messing with the 4 jaw chuck I used collets to machine the back sides. I should comeout with less run out.

I also bought this gizmo that attaches to the spindle of the mill and holds an indicator. I'm going to try that when locating the center of the pieces to mill the squares and flats.


----------



## Lakc

Looks like a nice start, I am quite interested in seeing how this turns out. I keep mulling over a dedicated crankshaft cutting machine....


----------



## petertha

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> I have started on the modular crankshaft.



What material are you going with?


----------



## Steve_Withnell

Steve,
Have you seen this method? Snag is you do need a big chuck to hold the fixture. The reason the picture uses 180 opposed crankpins, is that I drew it up for the Whittle V8 crank.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well here we go again. The first piece is scrap. I cant seem to figure out a way to lock the piece into the fixture so it won't come loose. I need to redo my fixture so it squeezes the od of the crankshaft piece. Maybe I should just go to KBC and buy that big bore lathe that keeps calling my name every time I go in there.

I'm thinking about using a screw to hold the crank pieces in the fixture but then I would have to put threads into the pieces and it would make them weak.

I have some thinking to do. I'll do my normal "move on to something else" until something hits me.

Sorry about the false alarm.


----------



## steamer

Persistance my friend....you know what that is.

You'll get it Master Steve....I know it!

Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

steamer  said:
			
		

> Persistance my friend....you know what that is.
> 
> You'll get it Master Steve....I know it!
> 
> Dave




Who's Steve?

I'm going to revamp the fixture! Get a better bite.

Bubba! Haahhahah!!!


----------



## steamer

Oh I got nothin but faith in my Bubba!


git r done Bubba!


Dave


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well here's the deal. I decided to try to cut a recess in the fixture so only the outer most part of the largest disk would make contact with the fixture. After the cut the piece was worse rocking all over the place. I then started to re-cut all the diameter and found that one of the holes was about .006 to shallow. The shaft before the square end was bottoming out before the large disk was contacting the fixture fully. That explains why the previous attempts were fruitless. After fixing the flaws I got 3 good ones in a row.


----------



## steamer

Excellent! I've pondered doing a multi throw modular because it would give you the chance to use ball or roller bearings....I'm watching!

Dave


----------



## T Mihelich

Fantastic job Steve!
Just love these V-8 engines. :bow:


----------



## ///

Hi Steve, 
Just spent the last couple of days reading all 82 pages, awesome stuff!

I'm _nowhere_ near ready to tackle a project like this, but, maybe it is the sleep deprivation maybe it's insanity, but I've just sent thru the funds for the full set of drawings!
I reckon it will take me atleast 5x longer to build one, so I'll be posting some photo's in about 7 or 8 years 

Cheers for a great thread, and cheers for making the drawings available!
Simo


----------



## stevehuckss396

///  said:
			
		

> I've just sent thru the funds for the full set of drawings!




You've got mail!


----------



## stevehuckss396

///  said:
			
		

> I reckon it will take me atleast 5x longer to build one, so I'll be posting some photo's in about 7 or 8 years




As long you are having fun and don't get hurt.


----------



## ///

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> You've got mail!


Cheers Mate!
I snuck a good long look at the drawings at work today and realised I'm gonna be in for a fight.
I can deal with inches ok, but building to it? Dreaming!
Starting to wonder which would be easier.. building it imperial or converting it to metric... hmmm ???



> As long you are having fun and don't get hurt.


Fun yes, not getting hurt? can't guarantee that 
I measured up all the large Ali I have handy.. all too small for the block, damn it!
The closest was only 0.4mm(~1/64th) too small.. aaargh!
It's a large plate offcut that is 52mm thick... 2.064" = 52.4256mm 
Ah weell, I'll just have to make a start on the smaller stuff.

Cheers again.


----------



## chrispare

Steve, I got a question. The end of the crank that has the square machined on it ,is that a press fit in the other piece of the crank and hoe do you machine a square on the inside of the hole?
Hope that makes sence

chris


----------



## stevehuckss396

chrispare  said:
			
		

> Steve, I got a question. The end of the crank that has the square machined on it ,is that a press fit in the other piece of the crank and hoe do you machine a square on the inside of the hole?
> Hope that makes sence
> 
> chris



Yes it is a press fit. I machine the squares with a 1/16 end mill. The radius in the corner of the pocket is no big deal because the square is machined on the round shaft so the shaft end has no square corners. If both pieces are made correct there is a nice tight fit.


----------



## ///

Congrats Steve for POTM!


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Congrats Steve, I can't think of a better project than this one!

Well done oh yea master Steve :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

I was at the show in Zanesville Ohio this weekend. I was having sparkplug troubles early on but they cleared up and I had some good runs later in the day. 

I decided that I better make another run of plugs so I cut up a piece of corian. I have more than I'll use lifetime. Of all the guy's who have purchased or thinking about purchasing plans, who is going to make there own plugs?

Roy has a 10-40 plug that will fit but they are $23 X 8 = $184 a set. 

I talked to Dale Detrich and he is looking into making the 8-40's but I don't know how much they will be.

*If Dale decides not to make them * I am also thinking about making just the insulators. They are the hardest part of making them. I would turn them up and when you get them you would just need to drill the hole in the center for the electrode. I would ask about $30 for a bag of 10.

Just trying to make the hard parts a little more easier.

I also have a friend who is thinking about doing the headers and zoomies in stainless. He is thinking $150 for the zoomies and $275 for the headers like on mine. 


Let me know what you guys are thinking. I know one fellow already who would like a set of pipes. Looking for feedback good or bad to get a feel for weather or not to spend the time to make the parts.


----------



## Maxine

I'd be one who would be interested in the base turnings if you decided to do them. Also where was the link to request your plans? I poked around but for some reason I can't find it now.  Should have bookmarked it I guess.  That's a beautiful looking engine and although probably WAY WAY over my head I want to dive into it anyway. I learn best by just firing up the machines in the shop and trying stuff.

Maxi


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, I'd be interested in the plugs/insulators although I am currently awaiting a sample of Macor (Machinable Glass Ceramic) to arrive. But it would be nice to know that a backup is available.

Also, I don't know if you would have the time/inclination, but a hardware package consisting of the gears, bearings, springs and seals etc., would be a very welcome addition.

The bearings are readily available here, but I am having difficulty in obtaining the springs and more importantly, the seals. Living on the wrong side of the globe and not having a credit card (thank gawd!) is taking it's toll here ... :big:

If all else fails, I guess I could use leather for the seals?

Another question for you, the one way bearing in the balancer, I know this is for the starter, but is there an adapter or something else needed for that as well?


----------



## stevehuckss396

trumpy81  said:
			
		

> The bearings are readily available here, but I am having difficulty in obtaining the springs and more importantly, the seals. Living on the wrong side of the globe and not having a credit card (thank gawd!) is taking it's toll here ... :big:
> 
> Another question for you, the one way bearing in the balancer, I know this is for the starter, but is there an adapter or something else needed for that as well?



Without a credit card it's going to be hard to get anything by mail. If I do make this stuff available in a kit it would add cost to the items. Much better for the builder to source there own. There is a minor break for quantity but it is very minor.

All you will need to do is chuck up a hardened 1/4 inch shaft in a drill motor and spin the engine with it. I purchased an RC starter so I made an adapter with a 1/4 inch shaft.


----------



## lee9966

Steve, I haven't read hmem in almost 2 months because it was depressing with no shop time. I came back because I kept thinking about your build. It's been a fantastic journey and I thank you VERY much!

Lee


----------



## stevehuckss396

LeeScrounger  said:
			
		

> Steve, I haven't read hmem in almost 2 months because it was depressing with no shop time. I came back because I kept thinking about your build. It's been a fantastic journey and I thank you VERY much!
> 
> Lee



Thanks Lee! It was fun for me also!


----------



## ///

@ Maxine

This Link should take you directly to the ordering info. ;D


----------



## chrispare

So Steve, hows the blower v8 coming?


----------



## jpeter

Hey guys, Steve had it running at the MDMC club meeting Wednesday. I saw it raw. I mean to tell you as good as it looks in pictures it looks better in the flesh. It runs well too. Too bad folks in the adjoining room wouldn't let him run it more, it just made too much V8 rumble. I guess some folks just don't appreciate good music when they hear it. 
Good job Steve.


----------



## doc1955

jpeter  said:
			
		

> It just made too much V8 rumble. I guess some folks just don't appreciate good music when they hear it.
> Good job Steve.



 :big: :big: :big: :big: I would love to get a peak at it in real time. I really looks nice in the pics and video I have to say one more time Geat Job Steve!!! :bow: :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

chrispare  said:
			
		

> So Steve, hows the blower v8 coming?



It's not. I have not had the time to get in the shop for some 4-5 weeks now. Now i'm working overtime. Probibly won't see any action until the end of the year.


----------



## stevehuckss396

doc1955  said:
			
		

> :big: :big: :big: :big: I would love to get a peak at it in real time. I really looks nice in the pics and video I have to say one more time Geat Job Steve!!! :bow: :bow:




Thanks Jim and Doc!

It's loosening up and I'm getting a good idle now. I need to fix a few things and get the Peewee fixed. NAMES is just around the corner.


----------



## nds213

I just spent the last two days reading this thread from start to finish, this is really something to aspire to. I have only made one small steam engine (Elmer's Oscillating). Thank you for taking so many pictures and showing your methods, I am going to read the entire thread a few more times to make sure I understand the techniques. Your engine is literally the coolest thing I have ever seen.

-Nathan


----------



## pcw

jpeter  said:
			
		

> I guess some folks just don't appreciate good music when they hear it.



i drove a ducati 900SS for years. (the old bevel drive roundblock) it had open pipes and velocity stacks on carbs, and a sticker stating: my bike isnt loud, it has sound 


i do love the v8 model engines, but for now its way over my head making one.
Pascal


----------



## stevehuckss396

I finally have something to report. My friend Ron fired up the tubing bender and I made the flanges and then he came over to silver solder the pipes together. Unfortunately this will be about all for a while. Still working too much but I hear it might end after the holidays.


----------



## gbritnell

Very nice Steve. Yeah that darn work always gets in the way.
George


----------



## stevehuckss396

I'm looking for a guy named John Tober, [email protected]

I have an update for the V8 plans and blower plans and your email address in my records will not allow me to send you the updates. Minor changes but I would like everyone to have the latest copy.


----------



## chrispare

Steve I am looking at your plans (very nice job)
Right now the only question is how are the rotors made for the blower?
This is the only question I have for now, But when I start building there will be plenty. lol

Just out of quorisity how many people have bought these plans ?


----------



## stevehuckss396

chrispare  said:
			
		

> Right now the only question is how are the rotors made for the blower?
> 
> Just out of quorisity how many people have bought these plans ?



I am going to mill mine with a ball end cutter. I have a chuck on my rotory table and i will make something to support the other end. Then machine every couple degrees like making a cam on the mill while adjusting the height of the spindle/knee. I have not made the chart yet but it could be made for 120 degrees rotation and then copied 2 more times. I have my blanks ready.

I have sold a few dozen sets of drawings. I gave the plans to the 5 people who have helped me the most and help untold numbers of people who are in or trying to get into the hobby. I know of only 3 people who have actually made parts. One fellow is deep into a build at 150% size. The other 2 have threads here.


----------



## stevehuckss396

If you remember a while back, I told everybody that Dale Detrich was thinking about making spark plugs. Well he sent me a set to try. This video is the Demon running on his plugs. In my opinion it runs as well or maybe a little better than the plugs I made. There is some arcing in the cap from me being a bone head. Good thing he sent me nine. Bottom line is they work well.

If dale decides to make the 8-40 plugs available I'll let everybody know.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnbwsLysqGk[/ame]


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, any chance of uploading some closeup stills of the plugs?

I'd certainly be interested if Dale does produce them.

Also, I noticed some arcing going on in the distributor in the video, is that normal?

It doesn't appear to be affecting the performance at all though.


----------



## stevehuckss396

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> There is some arcing in the cap from me being a bone head. Good thing he sent me nine.




No it's not normal. Mostly caused by a fouled plug. Once the engine is better tuned the plugs cleared up and the arcing went away.


----------



## trumpy81

GDay All,

Steve, having the clear dizzy cap let's you see little problems like that. It also looks rather neat ;D


----------



## berretta969mm

Steve, i was searching around the net for projects like yours and happened to stumble upon this blog, 2 hrs later after reading just about every post i am very impressed with your work, truely amazing what you were able to do and to your creativity. Are you still selling plans? 

Awesome work!


----------



## stevehuckss396

berretta969mm  said:
			
		

> Steve, i was searching around the net for projects like yours and happened to stumble upon this blog, 2 hrs later after reading just about every post i am very impressed with your work, truely amazing what you were able to do and to your creativity. Are you still selling plans?
> 
> Awesome work!




Plans are still available thru Paypal. I sent you a PM with all the details.


----------



## Artie

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Plans are still available thru Paypal. I sent you a PM with all the details.



Better send me one too Steve.... ;D


----------



## stevehuckss396

Artie  said:
			
		

> Better send me one too Steve.... ;D



Email sent Artie!!


----------



## Artie

stevehuckss396  said:
			
		

> Email sent Artie!!



Got im mate, thanks.


----------



## Artie

Hi Steve, transaction complete....


----------



## Artie

Just want to say thanks to Steve for the excellent plans. Very detailed (as you would expect) and clear. 

I also liked the details provided regarding gear and valve spring providers, in fact, even though this is a project for way way into the future (time and ability), Ive ordered these components while the items are available and the contact details are current.

Thanks again mate. :bow:


----------



## stevehuckss396

Artie  said:
			
		

> Just want to say thanks Steve



Your welcome, Any questions post them here or email me directly!!


----------



## Artie

Wow, $25 worth of valve springs $75 for freight.... 8) Getting them sent to a mate in the US who will pass em on...


----------



## stevehuckss396

Artie  said:
			
		

> Wow, $25 worth of valve springs $75 for freight.... 8) Getting them sent to a mate in the US who will pass em on...



I tried to put enough info with each part so you could go else where and get stuff. Can't you source the parts a bit closer to home? $75 for shipping is just robbery.


----------



## Artie

The 75 was shipped to me direct here in Aus, its almost nothing to a US address and then a simple small parcel cost from there. So its ok.

As far as local stuff, in reality Aus is a relatively 'small' country (22 million) and while we have a large manufacturing base, odd or small run stuff just isnt as readily available as in the US as the smallish market just cant support it...

But, all sorted......


----------



## stevehuckss396

If anybody needs to get to me regarding the Demon contact me at [email protected]. My wowway address is no longer active


----------



## stevehuckss396

Just a heads up. I have changed internet providers and my email and paypal accounts have changed. If you need to contact me for the plans or questions about building the engine i can be reached at . . 

[email protected]
[email protected]


----------



## brian13b

Wow, awesome build....   I do think my wife is upset with me, bc I havent said anything to her all night.  Because this thread was too interesting...


----------



## stevehuckss396

Thanks Brian. It was a long build but now that it has been up and running for a year or so it is running good. I have learned what the engine wants as far as carb adjustment and ignition timing. I am very happy with it.

This was a few weeks ago taken on a cell phone.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdJsLShcDCg[/ame]


----------



## krakkah

very nice


----------



## barnesrickw

Could listen to that all day.  If my wife would quit elbowing me in the ribs because she is watching TV. 


Sent from my iPad using Model Engines


----------



## stevehuckss396

barnesrickw said:


> Could listen to that all day.  If my wife would quit elbowing me in the ribs because she is watching TV.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Model Engines




Hahahahahaaaa!!!


----------



## stevehuckss396




----------



## petertha

Very Cool Steve. What's your plan for the outer shell?


----------



## Cogsy

That looks awesome Steve, but it is just for display right? You're not going to risk such a valuable engine in an RC car?


----------



## stevehuckss396

petertha said:


> Very Cool Steve. What's your plan for the outer shell?



3D print a 69 Chevelle


----------



## stevehuckss396

Cogsy said:


> That looks awesome Steve, but it is just for display right? You're not going to risk such a valuable engine in an RC car?




Undecided.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

stevehuckss396 said:


> 3D print a 69 Chevelle



What are the dimension?
Is it going to be the same color yours was
awesome workThm:Thm:Thm:


----------



## stevehuckss396

canadianhorsepower said:


> What are the dimension?
> 
> awesome workThm:Thm:Thm:




The plate it is sitting on is 1 foot wide and 3 feet long if that helps.


Not sure about the body and colors yet. I think it will take me another year at least to make a rearend, transmission, and everything else.


----------



## Maxine

That's a great project to put your V8 into.  Nice work!


----------



## stevehuckss396

Just to let everybody know, the rights to the plans for the demon V8 now belong to Executive Model Design. They purchased the rights to sell plans to those who wish to build one but to also look into producing mechanics kits for those who would like to purchase the parts and assemble it themselves.

The pricing will remain the same for electronic copy's of the plans but an added cost will be in place for those who want printed copies. The added cost will cover ink, paper, and postage. The plans should be available soon on there website.

I will pass off my list to them of the people who have purchased the plans from me so replacement can be made in the event of a computer crash. Anybody who wishes to purchase plans from now forward can get them at www.minicastings.com.


----------



## canadianhorsepower

stevehuckss396 said:


> Just to let everybody know, the rights to the plans for the demon V8 now belong to Executive Model Design. They purchased the rights to sell plans to those who wish to build one but to also look into producing mechanics kits for those who would like to purchase the parts and assemble it themselves.
> 
> The pricing will remain the same for electronic copy's of the plans but an added cost will be in place for those who want printed copies. The added cost will cover ink, paper, and postage. The plans should be available soon on there website.
> 
> I will pass off my list to them of the people who have purchased the plans from me so replacement can be made in the event of a computer crash. Anybody who wishes to purchase plans from now forward can get them at www.minicastings.com.


 
 Thanks Steve for all your help and dedication about upgrade, hope they wont go to junk after this


----------



## stevehuckss396

canadianhorsepower said:


> Thanks Steve for all your help and dedication about upgrade, hope they wont go to junk after this



The plans won't change. They will be the same plans that I sold.


----------



## mbrand

Hi Steve,
 I am new to this group and was flipping through the pages when I stumbled on your fantastic Demon V8.  Its something I would like to tackle but I had a few questions I was hoping you or one of the other members could answer.  Can the model be made with a manual lathe and mill or is CNC equipment required?  Is there a casting available for the supercharger body?  Does Ministeam have all the plan updates?  Thanks for your help.

 Mike


----------



## stevehuckss396

Yes the model can be made with manual machines. There is one in Mansfield Ohio that was made on manual machines and is in running order.

No casting available for the blower. There is rumor that there may be a casting kit for the project in the future. The blower housing would be a logical part of the kit.

Yes Minicastings has the latest version of the plans.


----------



## djalal

so your engine doesn't need oil sir !!​


----------



## barnesrickw

People from Mansfield are very talented &#128512;


----------



## stevehuckss396

djalal said:


> so your engine doesn't need oil sir !!​





Yes it needs oil. There is oil in the crankcase/oil pan for splash lubrication and also WD40 in the gas to lube the cylinders.


----------



## stevehuckss396

barnesrickw said:


> People from Mansfield are very talented &#128512;




The person I know sure is.


----------



## barnesrickw

stevehuckss396 said:


> The person I know sure is.




My Uncle is the last of my family still there.


----------



## mdasseville

Hi Steve 

Great thread 

Mike


----------



## CarlosV8

It´s a perfect job, just perfect.

Did you use friction bearing? or bearing to avoid axial play crankshaft? 

What is play between sleeve and piston?

Is there pics of the cam/crankshaft angles? That must be almost impossible to build. 

Something like this 





Sorry for my english.


----------



## stevehuckss396

CarlosV8 said:


> It´s a perfect job, just perfect.
> 
> Did you use friction bearing? or bearing to avoid axial play crankshaft?
> 
> What is play between sleeve and piston?
> 
> Is there pics of the cam/crankshaft angles? That must be almost impossible to build.
> 
> 
> Sorry for my english.




There is a ball bearing pressed onto the rear of the camshaft that controls any play

There is no drawing that shows the angles. Because of the method used to make it a drawing is un-nessessary

Your english is fine,


----------



## CarlosV8

stevehuckss396 said:


> There is a ball bearing pressed onto the rear of the camshaft that controls any play
> 
> There is no drawing that shows the angles. Because of the method used to make it a drawing is un-nessessary
> 
> Your english is fine,



I could learn alot of you, you are an expert.

How is that method? CNC numbers? 

Thank you S. Huck


----------



## stevehuckss396

CarlosV8 said:


> I could learn alot of you, you are an expert.
> 
> How is that method? CNC numbers?
> 
> Thank you S. Huck



Fixture and spreadsheet. 

View attachment Offset turning the camshaft.pdf


----------



## CarlosV8

stevehuckss396 said:


> Fixture and spreadsheet.



Thank you very very much Steve.


----------



## Stieglitz

Hi Steve,
            Looks a great project I will be watching the progress.
Thanks for sharing.
Allen.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Finally had a chance to get something done. Made the wheelie bars They are an exact copy of some bars i found on the web.


----------



## michael-au

Hi Steve 
Have you had the V8 with the blower running, if so do you have any video of it

This is a fantastic project, will be good to see when its finished

Michael


----------



## stevehuckss396

michael-au said:


> Hi Steve
> Have you had the V8 with the blower running, if so do you have any video of it
> 
> This is a fantastic project, will be good to see when its finished
> 
> Michael



Not yet. Just one more thing on a long list of things that i have been wanting to get finished.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Center section is almost complete. I still need to drill and tap the drain hole for the gear lube and make a drain plug. If I can get the gear cutting nailed down I might be able to make a ring and pinion set. Next up will be the rear shocks.


----------



## Parksy

That is a work of art Steve! Just amazing.


----------



## michael-au

Fantastic work Steve and a great project

Did you find plans for the pipe work or is this you own design

Michael


----------



## stevehuckss396

michael-au said:


> Fantastic work Steve and a great project
> 
> Did you find plans for the pipe work or is this you own design
> 
> Michael



I bought Chassis plans from S&W Race cars and scaled them down to size. Then I had to design my own motor mounts and wheelie bars.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well i found myself with a day off from work so i made a pair of rear shocks. They are basically just like an RC shock except all brass instead of plastic. I couldn't find springs close enough to size so I wound a pair to the OD and length I needed. They were assembled and soldered together. I modeled them after the adjustable coil over drag racing shocks.


----------



## Colh

Have been waiting for you to get back onto this project.  Amazing work.


----------



## stevehuckss396

A little update on the car.

I couldn't make heads or tails of the gears as far as the exact placements of the cuts with the custom cutters. I fully understand the article and what is supposed to happen but the numbers didn't seem to work so i freakin winded it. I patched as much of the article together with the 3D cad and drew up the gears and eyeballed the shape of the teeth and did my own thing. After a few hours of adding a little here and taking off a little there I had a set of gears that were ready to "test". My pal was going to print the gears in ABS and pass them off to me to try. Couple days before I was ready his printer died. I really needed them printed on a "good" printer with good resolution. So I searched the web and found a place that could print ABS. Come to find out the set in ABS on a really good printer costs about 75 bucks plus shipping. After further snooping on the website i found they could 3D print in steel so I had to see what that would cost. 42 bucks in steel plus shipping so guess what I did. Well they are not that bad other than a bit of a rough finish but I figure I could run them in with a little diamond paste. They don't take kindly to drilling and threading. My mounting holes were printed into the part .005 under and I had to drill to size. Drill bit got hot real fast but it worked. Tap is still pissed at me but it did take a thread. Obviously not as nice as machined gears but cheap in my opinion. I still have an interference issue that I think some button head screws will clear up but other than that everything fit as planned.


----------



## kuhncw

Steve,

Nice work as always.  Looks great.  Interesting that the steel gears were less cost than ABS,

Chuck


----------



## stevehuckss396

kuhncw said:


> Steve,
> 
> Interesting that the steel gears were less cost than ABS,
> 
> Chuck



Yeah I was shocked. I would think that the ABS would have a better surface finish and closer tolerance on size. The steel is pretty good but you can see small spots where the metal got away a little bit. The pair run together pretty good but its hard to tell until i get some button head screws in it so I can make a full turn.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Put the final touches on the rear end. The center section was completed by cutting a clearance on the bottom so the mounting hardware could be inserted through the holes. The oil fill plug was drilled and tapped. The yoke was cross drilled so the Ujoint can be mounted. The entire thing was assembled complete for the first time. I also had a chance to make the front rims and the centers for the rear rims. I have 100 stainless screws on the way to assemble them.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Another weeks worth!

I have finished the front struts. I still need to make the mounts for the top so stay tuned on that. Started on the pieces Saturday so there is 5 days, a couple hours a day. Need to sort out the top mount and make the hub so I can get the front wheels mounted.


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well I finally have wheels on the front. I finished up the heim joints on the A arms and made the hubs. The brakes are bolted on for the first time and the tire is mounted. I am going to make a wheel spacer tomorrow to give a little more room between the rim and calipers.


----------



## michael-au

Good to see some pics of this build, you are doing an amazing job Steve

Would like to have the same skill level

Michael


----------



## stevehuckss396

Well gentlemen, here's where I'm at on the little Chevy. The show is this weekend in Zanesville Ohio. If you can get there here is what you will see. I ran out of time and could not finish the rear wheels. I still need to make the bead locks.


----------



## Jmccrack

i cannot see your photos  can you help me?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Jmccrack said:


> i cannot see your photos  can you help me?



Try to right click on the missing photo and choose " open in new window". You will be redirected to the photo bucket website where the photo will be displayed.


----------



## Jmccrack

Sorry Steve. I mean i cannot see your photos from the start of the build. I can see these last ones. any advice? i went back to the beginning f the build and right clicked on the image it did take me to photo bucket but would not load any photos. i bought the plans for the Demon and would like to start the build. Of course your photos would be a great help


----------



## Jmccrack

Steve just a note page 128 i cannot see the photo only PB saying go to some 3rd party and page 129 i can see the photos  did something change?


----------



## stevehuckss396

Jmccrack said:


> Steve just a note page 128 i cannot see the photo only PB saying go to some 3rd party and page 129 i can see the photos  did something change?



Yes, photo bucket now wants me to pay 400 a year to make my photos reappear. Thats not happening so if the right click doesnt work, i dont know of any other way to go directly to the missing photo. You can root through all the photos using this link until photo bucket decides to charge by the photo.

http://s770.photobucket.com/user/stevehuckss396/library/V8Demon


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## canadianhorsepower

Hi Steve,
If I can be of any help I have all the pictures saved in one folder
for when I build the motor

cheers


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## Jmccrack

Luc
old buddy old pal. As one Canuk to another. is there any way i might get those off you. I live on Vancouver Island . You can PM me if we could work something out
TKS  Jerry


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## Jmccrack

Steve
Tks for the link. I can see all the photos. But you were right when I go to open one PB wants me to pay. What a bunch of garbage. Tks for the link. It helps a bit. Another engine builder kept your file maybe we can work something out.

Tks Again


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## canadianhorsepower

Jmccrack said:


> Luc
> old buddy old pal. As one Canuk to another. is there any way i might get those off you. I live on Vancouver Island . You can PM me if we could work something out
> TKS  Jerry



I sent you an email with all the pictures Enjoy


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## GRAYHIL

Hi all
The following has been copied from "search for vee 8 plans"
There have been no replies. Surely some one can help?

Well I have made the camshaft to Steves chart and it "looks" fit for purpose, but I still can,t work out how the cross marks in the chart are worked out and I like to understand what I am doing.
Once again can anyone give me a pointer?
Graham


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## stevehuckss396

GRAYHIL said:


> Hi all
> The following has been copied from "search for vee 8 plans"
> There have been no replies. Surely some one can help?
> 
> Well I have made the camshaft to Steves chart and it "looks" fit for purpose, but I still can,t work out how the cross marks in the chart are worked out and I like to understand what I am doing.
> Once again can anyone give me a pointer?
> Graham




I have swapped some emails with this fellow and I think everything is good to go.


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## GRAYHIL

Hi Steve
Can you email me again and give us some clues as to where I am going wrong!
I am allowing for direction of rotation, gearing, the Vee of the cylinders.
Is there something else?
Just finishing the cam and distributor gears.(from scratch)
Graham


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## stevehuckss396

GRAYHIL said:


> Hi Steve
> Can you email me again and give us some clues as to where I am going wrong!
> I am allowing for direction of rotation, gearing, the Vee of the cylinders.
> Is there something else?
> Just finishing the cam and distributor gears.(from scratch)
> Graham



what exactly is going wrong? Is it the proceedure that is confusing? Tell me what specifically is the trouble and i will do all i can to help.


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## GRAYHIL

Hi Steve
I am trying to prove that the cam chart is right , using the 3 things I have mentioned. (and the firing order which I missed out)!!
Is there a spread sheet with formula?
As I said before I like to understand how things are arrived at.
Graham


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## stevehuckss396

Follow only the exhaust lobes on the chart in the order of fire. EX1 starts at zero degrees. Ex8 is next to fire and should lag #1 by 45 degrees. Using a clockwise degree wheel 45 degrees behind 0 is 315 degrees. Cylinder #8 is on the opposite bank so it has to lag by an additional 90 degrees so the #8 lobe needs to lag #1 by 135 degrees. That puts #8 lobe at 225 degrees.

The even cylinders need 90 degrees additional  lag to allow for the 90 degree Vee angle

#1 - 0                       zero degrees
#8 - 45 + 90             360 - 45 - 90 = 225 degrees
#4 - 90 + 90             360 - 90 - 90 = 180 degrees
#3 - 135                   360 - 135 = 225 degrees
#6 - 180 +90            360 - 180 - 90 = 90 degrees
#5 - 225                   360 - 225 - 135 degrees
#7 - 270                   360 - 270 - 90 degrees
#2 - 315 + 90           360 - 315 - 90 = -45 degrees  With a negative number go 360 - 45 = 315

Once you figure out where all the exhaust lobes should be, the intake lobes lag there exhaust lobes by 110 degrees


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## Maxine

That was helpful to me also.  Thanks Steve!  Maxi


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## GRAYHIL

Hi Steve
I am most grateful for your explanation, I can now see how to do it properly.

many thanks

Graham


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## Stieglitz

Hi Steve, I thank you also as this will be of great assistance to me in the future.
Cheers
Allen.


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## GRAYHIL

Hi all
Anyone know what the valve clearance is?
I am not ready for it yet just getting facts together.

Many thanks
Graham


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## Cogsy

I would say as long as it has some clearance then it will be fine. It's not like it's going to run for extended periods where everything gets thoroughly hot, expands and clearances reduce. If you make it to large you're reducing your cam lift and duration, which won't affect it all that much anyway - again it's not like full size where we're chasing maximum power. So I'd just set them so it has a little clearance by feel and call that good enough.


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## GRAYHIL

Thanks Al
Graham


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## GRAYHIL

Hi All
Do the valve cages sit flush with the head cylinder cut out? or are they .017 below.
Depth of recess in head .397 length of cage .38
They do not look right when .017 below and would presumably restrict gas flow as valve head would only just fit in, waiting loctiting so answer would be appreciated.
Graham


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## stevehuckss396

They should be .017 below. When the valve is installed it will be flush with the surface or real close to flush. There is plenty of lift and duration in the cam to get the cylinder filled up.


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## GRAYHIL

Steve
Thanks for your reply, you are most helpful.
Graham


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## GRAYHIL

Hi ALL
What is the clutch bearing for in the balancer at the front of the engine on the crankshaft?
Thanking you in advance
Graham


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## stevehuckss396

Hello Graham!

The clutch bearing is for starting the engine. The bearing spins like a standard roller bearing in one direction and locks up in the other. A 1/4 inch shaft can be inserted into the bearing and rotated clockwise. The bearing locks clockwise so the engine spins over in the clockwise direction. When the engine starts the crankshaft speed will exceed the starter speed so the bearing will release and spin on the starter shaft until you pull it out.


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## GRAYHIL

Hi Steve
Once again thanks for your swift response.
Many Thanks
Graham


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## GRAYHIL

Hi All
On page 108 Steve says "superglue electrode on to rotor ".
Any particular type of super glue for Delrin to brass or just standard super glue?
Graham
P.S. The parts too be made list is getting shorter!!!


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## doc1955

I just use g regular super glue it's kind of a bugger getting the little piece line up on the disk I used a scribe point to push it around then and eraser to push it down. Seemed to hold just fine.


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## GRAYHIL

Thanks for the reply doc1955.
Has anyone thought of machining a .010inch deep slot in the delrin and making the electrode .01 thicker? Would it effect anything like setting the ignition timing or electrical properties?
Graham


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## doc1955

I think that would work you would need to get it timed with the magnet correctly. I ended up having to remove redo it once because I didn't get it quite right just took an exacto blade and took it off cleaned it up and re-did it.  Plus if you have my luck I fried a couple hall sensors and upon replacing them had to move the brass strip so you could run into a problem if that happens. Anyway in theory it's a good idea but in reality it could bite you in the end.


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## stevehuckss396

Scuff both parts with scotch brite pad or steel wool. Any super glue will work but I prefer the gel type because it doesn't set instantly. You get a few seconds to get the pieces placed correctly before the glue sets.


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## GRAYHIL

Thanks for all your input.
Graham


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## GRAYHIL

Hi All
Ref the water pump,the machining drawing page 55 shows a bearing recess .25 x .24 deep on the right hand side of the flat side (although it is not delineated) and a .25 x .05 deep recess on the opposite . The side where the inlet fitting fits.
Page 56 shows the bearing fitted to the .25 x .05 deep recess?
My question before I cut metal is, is the bearing on the inner or outer side ?
My intuition is that the bearing fits in the inner side and page 56 has misled me but I thought I would check
Graham


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## stevehuckss396

I believe you are correct. The .05 deep recess is for the oring to seal the shaft. Let me check it out real good tomorrow and ill get back to you


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## stevehuckss396

I updated the water pump so the o ring would be external making it easier to replace if worn. The assembly drawing was not updated. The bearings are internal and the o ring goes on the shaft behind the fan belt pulley. Put a dab of silicone grease on the shaft before installing the oring.


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## GRAYHIL

Hi Steve
You are an inspiration to me.
Thanks Graham


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## GRAYHIL

Hi All
Has anyone found that the rocker arms tend to turn and the roller ends touch.
My solution was to fit a plate inside the rocker arm head recess with .08 inch slots and screwed down.
Can anyone see any problems?
Graham


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## GRAYHIL

Hi All
Has anyone found that the rocker arms tend to turn and the roller ends touch.
My solution was to fit a plate inside the rocker arm head recess with .08 inch slots and screwed down.
Can anyone see any problems?
Graham


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## stevehuckss396

The valve stem should go into the groove of the rocker making it impossible to turn on the stud. Also from your pictures they are installed upside down. When you get them flipped over make sure the valve stem is making contact with the roller and when it does there should be little to no sideways motion.


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## GRAYHIL

Thanks Steve
Why did I not see this as I have pictures of your build. 

Graham


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## stevehuckss396

GRAYHIL said:


> Thanks Steve
> Why did I not see this as I have pictures of your build.
> 
> Graham



No big deal, should be an easy fix. Page 32 has an assembly drawing for the rocker system. If you have any more problems post them here or contact me directly.


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## Mark Duquette

OK I give.  You skill and patience have to be admired.  I happened upon this thread a week ago and could not let it go.  I had toyed in my teens to build a model engine but never did.  Now seeing your work I have the bug again.  I have decided to make the model of one of the engines I had in a pinto bodied modified in the late 1970's.  This will be a dry sump , normally aspirated Ford Boss 351.  It will be 1/4 scale with about 7/8 bore and 3/4 inch stroke.  I am afraid that it will take me longer than it did you as I will have to finish some of my other projects to make this happen.  (finish forth axis for retrofit Bridgeport,  finish upgrading Emco compact5 to be a servo driven PcTurn) 

As you can see I have a very long way to go.


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## stevehuckss396

Mark Duquette said:


> OK I give.  You skill and patience have to be admired.  I happened upon this thread a week ago and could not let it go.  I had toyed in my teens to build a model engine but never did.  Now seeing your work I have the bug again.  I have decided to make the model of one of the engines I had in a pinto bodied modified in the late 1970's.  This will be a dry sump , normally aspirated Ford Boss 351.  It will be 1/4 scale with about 7/8 bore and 3/4 inch stroke.  I am afraid that it will take me longer than it did you as I will have to finish some of my other projects to make this happen.  (finish forth axis for retrofit Bridgeport,  finish upgrading Emco compact5 to be a servo driven PcTurn)
> 
> As you can see I have a very long way to go.



Keep going. Took me a year and some change to get the drawings to a point where I was comfortable starting the first piece. You will get there.


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## propclock

Well it took 2 mornings,  but I read the build from start to finish. Thank you
so  much for all of your shared experience. I just completed a Blown Black Widow
V8 but I didn't build the crank. Dwight Giles built the Crank, and most of the difficult
stuff. 
 I have only ruined 1 crank so far.
 So My 2nd engine is awaiting a successful crank. I really feel your pain on the crank, but you have motivated me to get back to it. You said you got sharper tooling.
Was this purchased or just better angles/honing? 
Again Thank You.  Now back to the shop.


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## stevehuckss396

I found that thinner tip and sharper tooling helped. I ground a right and left hand tool on a 3/32 wide parting tool and used it to finish the piece.


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