# Otto Langen engine 1867



## gg89220 (Aug 13, 2018)

hello
beginning of construction, the first pieces


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## natalefr (Aug 13, 2018)

Hallo Gerard always super job


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## kvom (Aug 14, 2018)

A good challenge there.


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## LorenOtto (Aug 14, 2018)

gg89220 said:


> hello
> beginning of construction, the first pieces


I will be following this with much interest.


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## gg89220 (Aug 19, 2018)

hello
following the machining


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## natalefr (Aug 19, 2018)

Awesome Gerard !


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## minh-thanh (Aug 19, 2018)

It's pretty cool !


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## Mike Henry (Aug 20, 2018)

I'll be following this thread as I've wanted to build one of these for 20 years or so.  Is yours from the Lenaz plan set?


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## gg89220 (Aug 20, 2018)

hello
plan
http://www.vapeuretmodelesavapeur.com/telechargemennts/jdw-otto-langen.pdf


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## Mike Henry (Aug 20, 2018)

Thanks for that link.  Looks like the JDW plans are based on the Lenaz plans but JDW's look better done.


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## gg89220 (Aug 26, 2018)

hello
following the project


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## johnmcc69 (Aug 26, 2018)

Nice work! Will be following along.

 John


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## minh-thanh (Aug 26, 2018)

Wow !


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## gg89220 (Sep 4, 2018)

hello
completion of the column and the ignition system


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## LorenOtto (Sep 4, 2018)

Awesome work!  Keep it up.


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## PhilL (Sep 5, 2018)

Very nice work Gerard!  
She should run like a champ!


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## gg89220 (Sep 7, 2018)

hello
he engine is assembled, need help for the setting of the drawer and the ignition. there are explosions but the rack does not go up much.
thank


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## PhilL (Sep 7, 2018)

I see you're using butane.  I've only seen these run on acetylene.  That's what I use.  I don't think butane has enough energy.  It is a pain to cart the tank around and I'm sure if butane worked, it would be used more.
Find someone with an acetylene MC tank.  That should be enough fuel to run the engine for a year straight.


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## gg89220 (Sep 7, 2018)

phil,how must be wedged the drawer the eccentric untrained


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## Cymro77 (Sep 7, 2018)

Incredible work! Congratulations.  Now I know I'm on the wrong site!  Do they have a site  Model Engineering for Dummies?   That's where I belong.


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## PhilL (Sep 7, 2018)

I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but I'll try.  

I think you're asking what causes the eccentric to catch?
The flat bar on the right side gets pushed down by the tab sticking out of the rack as it come down.
That allows the pawl to rise and catch a tooth on the rotating gear and be pulled around the eccentric.


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## PhilL (Sep 7, 2018)

I looked at your pictures and maybe I have your question backwards.
Looking at your post #11, the 5th picture...
It's hard to tell, but I think the bar I spoke of is in the raised position and catching the pawl.  However, it looks like the pawl tooth is in the path of the gear so it will catch and rotate.

If that is the case, while the bottom of the pawl is held by the latch sear on the bar, the pawl should NOT catch a tooth of the gear.  Check your dimentions on everything if they do.  They need to be spot on.  I made that bar a couple times.  Then I learned the hard way to do all the bends in the bar THEN cut that latch sear.


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## gg89220 (Sep 7, 2018)

sorry this is not my question, I would like to know what position should have the drawer in the carburetor with the eccentrics not trained
in other words, what are the adjustments to make to the admission system.


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## PhilL (Sep 7, 2018)

OK, Now I understand.  The link you posted looks to me like someone put together a few different sets of drawings.  The ones in color are the set I used to build mine.  On page 4 of that set, is the instructions to setup the valve.  I copied it here:

The setting of the Slide Valve is similar to timing the valves in a modern day engine. The valve must be set to allow fuel into the engine at the right time, trigger the ignition to fire the engine, and then allow for release of the exhaust gases. The engine should be fully assembled except for the Slide Valve and the valve cover. Lift the rack high enough to clear the levers so the pawl will unlatch from the Ratchet Wheel. This will allow the FlyWheel and the shafts to spin freely. The high point of the Slide Valve Eccentric should be in the horizontal position with the high point toward the rack. Hold the FlyWheel to prevent the rack from going down and the shafts from turning. Screw the Yoke with Slide Valve attached up or down on the Valve Rod so the exhaust hole in the Slide Valve and the Port Face are aligned. This may take a little fiddling and screwing the Valve Rod up or down in the Eccentric Valve Strap to have proper adjustment at the Yoke end of the Valve Rod. Now you can install the Valve Cover, Springs, and nuts. Tighten the nuts only enough to apply light pressure on the Slide Valve. Apply only enough pressure to prevent the Slide Valve from leaving the the Port Face when the engine is running.


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## gg89220 (Sep 8, 2018)

hello
that's the answer I wanted ok. thank you
_for ignition what is the dimension of the end of the contact with the drawer.
_you have the same candle


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## gg89220 (Sep 8, 2018)

the ignition must produce a single spark or several at each contact ?


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## gg89220 (Sep 8, 2018)

hello
I see the spring placed under the head of the ignition pin, it is a mistake, it must be above ??


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 8, 2018)

Try first with propane, then acetylene. Butane is not good enough.. See fact and compare between propane and acetylene.. 
http://www.cousesteel.com/AndysPlace/PropaneAcetylene.html


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 8, 2018)

To check spark point: After the piston is raised by eccentric to suck the gas into cylinder and the valve is closed -> give a spark on gas to shoot piston up.


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## gg89220 (Sep 8, 2018)

I added oxygen to the air intake, there are explosions at each turn and stronger, he turned a few turns alone. it would be a lack of air in the cylinder, I will try with propane


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 8, 2018)

Pure gas without air works bad. Maybe timing is not correct or passage is not correct. Remeasure all passage and hole etc to be sure all is ok before adjusting timing to get air and gas mixed into the cylinder when piston is raised up before closing and ignite the gas/air mix. Too much gas mixed in air will not works or too lean gas too..


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 8, 2018)

To Set the Slide Valve. 
The setting of the Slide Valve is similar to timing the valves in a modern day engine. The valve must be set to allow fuel into the engine at the right time, trigger the ignition to fire the engine, and then allow for release of the exhaust gases. The engine should be fully assembled except for the Slide Valve and the valve cover. Lift the rack high enough to clear the levers so the pawl will unlatch from the Ratchet Wheel. This will allow the flywheel and the shafts to spin freely. The high point of the Slide Valve Eccentric should be in the horizontal position with the high point toward the rack. Hold the flywheel to prevent the rack from going down and the shafts from turning. Screw the Yoke with Slide Valve attached up or down on the Valve Rod so the exhaust hole in the Slide Valve and the Port Face are aligned. This may take a little fiddling and screwing the Valve Rod up or down in the Eccentric Valve Strap to have proper adjustment at the Yoke end of the Valve Rod. Now you can install the Valve Cover, Springs, and nuts. Tighten the nuts only enough to apply light pressure on the Slide Valve.  Apply only enough pressure to prevent the Slide Valve from leaving the the Port Face when the engine is running.


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 8, 2018)

Exhaust valve (reed blade) works without big pressure to push valve open? Try to test valve works when you are suck the vavle via exhaust pipe and it must not be force to open the valve. With exhaust inside cylinder under suction period to get gas/air mix will not works well if the reed blade for exhaust is stiff.


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## gg89220 (Sep 24, 2018)

hello
it turns but still adding a little oxygen ?? I do not know what to do..Try with acethylene?


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## Cogsy (Sep 24, 2018)

Maybe it is freeing up a bit and won't need the oxygen once it's fully 'run in'? Or possibly your gas mixture is off a bit? It might be just me but I wouldn't like to run a model on acetylene. It's so dangerous/powerful a gas that I don't muck with it except in commercially produced cutting torches. Just in case you do, and think about building your own tank, acetylene raised to anything over 12 PSI will spontaneously explode - acetylene tanks are specially constructed with internal structures and compounds to prevent this from occurring. It will also react with many common metals and make even more explosive materials.
There is more energy in MAPP gas than propane, maybe give that a go instead?

Edit to add: It's a remarkable engine, very unique and you're done an excellent job on it!


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## Jasonb (Sep 25, 2018)

It's just those characteristics that make acetylene the easiest gas to use as it will ignite over a wide range of mixtures and pressures. Propane and even more so Butane have a very small band when they will ignite so pressure and mix proportions are very critical. This particular version is based on a copy of a copy of the Lenaz drawings, I know someone who has build an engine to these drawings and his runs on acetylene. Full size ones that still exist are run on a hydrogen based cocktail.

You are probably having to add oxygen as you have more gas than needed and the air/gas ratio does not have enough oxygen when just drawing air, cut the gas to almost no flow and run it through the smallest gas jet you can find to further restrict it. I've recently finished a hot tube ignition engine and that is critical on the gas setting only needing the valve opening a couple of degrees and that is going through a 0.15mm jet too.

When my 1/4scale Otto is finished I will get a small acetylene generator which are available from camping suppliers and at least one supplier of model engine castings.


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## Chiptosser (Sep 25, 2018)

I believe Wayne Grenning, uses a mix of gasses. Like hydrogen and another gas.
You can look up Grenning engines, to contact him or go to Smokstack forums.


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## gg89220 (Sep 30, 2018)

hello
i managet to run it without oxygen!!!


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## Cogsy (Oct 1, 2018)

That is a remarkable engine. Well done!


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## ShopShoe (Oct 1, 2018)

It is nice to see it finally running. You have done a good job. I admire your persistence.

Thank You for posting,

--ShopShoe


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## Gedeon Spilett (Oct 1, 2018)

Great success with this temperamental runner, very instructive build, thanks to share.
Kudos, Gerard !


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## Antonio (Oct 7, 2018)

salve ragazzi complimenti per quello che riesce a fare con grande impegno realizzando i capolavori di storia.
Vorrei realizzarne qualcuno anche io sapreste indicarmi dove posso trovare i piani del motore DAIMLER del 1866 in scala.
ve ne sarei molto grato in attesa cordiali saluti da ITALIA. ANTONIO


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## lkrestorer (Dec 24, 2021)

gg89220,
I realize this is a pretty old post but I'm currently working on a model of this engine and have a question (actually, many but time will straighten out most of them )
I'm making the column in three pieces like you did and have a cylinder sleeve, also. What I've started to be concerned about is how to fasten the four pieces together so they won't get easily dislodged. All of my fits are quite good but are not press fits. Will Locktite be adequate? I don't want any set screws that might show.


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## gg89220 (Dec 25, 2021)

I think I glued the bottom and top element with a cylinder sleeve.
locktite yes adequate


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## lkrestorer (Dec 25, 2021)

gg89220 said:


> think I glued the bottom and top element with a cylinder sleeve.
> locktite yes adequate


Thank you for the reply.  My concerns were about possible running heat and vibration loosening the bond. Obviously I won't be doing anything of the sort until I'm at final assembly and have made sure that it won't need to be disassembled again.


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## gg89220 (Dec 25, 2021)

it does not heat up much, no problem


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## weir-smith (Dec 27, 2021)

gg89220 said:


> it does not heat up much, no problem


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## weir-smith (Dec 27, 2021)

gg89220

I am currently building the Otto Langen engine and it is 80% complete. The build was to take place over a 12 month period however I am moving into an apartment where I will not have a workshop after 40 odd years of model engineering. As a result, the build is being done over a six week period before my machines are collected by their new owner. So that is the background.

My question is to do with the small spring located on the paw eccentric but I can't work out what its purpose is.  You can see the pivot point and the anchor point but the other end is a mystery. If you can provide some clarification it would be most appreciated. Next week I have to complete the valve assembly and with luck the engine will be complete except for the finishing and adjusting etc.

Bruce Weir-Smith
Western Australia.


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## gg89220 (Dec 27, 2021)

hello
there are 2 springs, one lifts the leg, the other rests on the pawl .


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## weir-smith (Dec 27, 2021)

gg89220 said:


> hello
> there are 2 springs, one lifts the leg, the other rests on the pawl .
> View attachment 132220
> View attachment 132221


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## weir-smith (Dec 27, 2021)

Thankyou for the photos and it is appreciated. I can now see  the spring arrangement which was not clear on the drawings.

Bruce W-S


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## lkrestorer (Mar 2, 2022)

gg89220,

I am proceeding fairly well with my version of this engine but I'm getting to some of the more technical parts.  I'm working on this with a long-distance relationship with my friend Bruce in Perth, Australia. He has posted a couple of questions, also.

I'm working on the fuel valve and the timing right now with a ways to go before I'll be done. I have two questions: What specific components did you use for the ignition (I've already made the spark plug) and what is that nice little valve you are using for the fuel inlet/regulator?


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## gg89220 (Mar 2, 2022)

hello
I use a gas lighter controlled by a switch. I added a needle screw recovered from a model carburator , the gas bottle is equipped with a pressure regulator


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## PhilL (Mar 2, 2022)

Looking good!!
One thing I've not been able to figure out is the ratchet pawl when unlatched, still clicks against the gear.  I'm trying to figure out how to get it to pull back just a bit further so it doesn't click.  Does anyone else have that problem?


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## natalefr (Mar 2, 2022)

Congratulations !


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## DKGrimm (Mar 3, 2022)

PhilL said:


> Looking good!!
> One thing I've not been able to figure out is the ratchet pawl when unlatched, still clicks against the gear.  I'm trying to figure out how to get it to pull back just a bit further so it doesn't click.  Does anyone else have that problem?


Yes.  I added a little bit of downspring pressure on the slide valve push rod.  That tends to pull on the valve eccentric a bit to hold just a little pressure against the pawl stop.  That works perfectly.

The only problem is where to put the spring.  On my engine I modified the ignition point arrangement completely.  An extension rod goes from the slide valve through the base into the cavity below, so I could put a light coil spring on that.  I Rigged up a Hall sensor on that rod to trigger the ignition, and that works well.  

I'm still running on acetylene, having given up on propane, but the idea of using MAPP gas sounds intriguing.


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