# CNC  x2 Mill



## Rndmann9

I'm finally getting around to designing and building my x2 mill!  Been kicking this can down the road for a long time.


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## Rndmann9

State it's in now.


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## Rndmann9

How it should end up if all goes as planned


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## Rndmann9

Close up of motor standoffs in first picture in design


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## GailInNM

Looks good. Keep us posted.
You may want to consider replacing the solid coupling between the motor shaft and the lead screw with a flexible coupling at some point.  It reduces any problems with shaft misalignment and keeps the motor bearing and the lead screw bearings from fighting with each other. Not that the solid won't work.  Just makes life easier and often increases available power. Easy to obtain on Ebay to suit shaft sizes. Inexpensive if you shop around.
Gail in NM


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## Blogwitch

Unfortunately Gail, the only type of coupling to give total out of line control (within reason) is the Oldham Coupling.

These couplings automatically realign themselves by offsetting the acetyl disc whilst turning and cut out any side loads onto the bearings at each end.
I have been using them for many years with no problems at all.











In the UK you can easily purchase them from here, but you might also find them on auction sites.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Oldham-Couplings

The type you have shown, will still allow side loads to the bearings even though they will allow you to connect to the two shafts, it is the deflected bend that does it, with the coupling trying to straighten itself out all the time.

If you are up to it, you can make Oldham Couplings yourself, but taking account of the time involved, it pays to cough up the cash and buy them.

BTW, if you can't get the correct sized ends for the shafts you are using, you can enlarge the centre hole, BUT ONLY BY BORING, otherwise if you just open them out with a drill, the holes can wander anywhere. 
DAMHIK

John


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## Foozer

Just two cents worth - I snapped a couple of the spring type couplers with table direction changes - Got the little spider type coupling - So far it's Me Proof . . . That, or I'm not trying hard enough to break it .


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## GailInNM

John,
You are correct.  The Oldham type coupling is far superior to the spring type that I showed.The spring type is OK for VERY MINOR misalignments and is a definite improvement over having a rigid type coupling. I showed it because it is inexpensive and very available in my world. But I agree the Oldham is a superior coupling.
Gail in NM


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## Rndmann9

It's not really solid.  I'm going to most likely buy one but designed one just in case.  Doing some more machining today but it's hot in the shop....so hopefully have some more pics up soon.


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## Rndmann9

The one I designed looks remarkably like the one in blogwitch's pic.


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## Rndmann9

I'm also not showing the thrust bearings that I will add between the mill body and motor mount block.  Haven't decided how I want that yet.  I need to get some in my hands to see so I know how I want to add them in. I have an idea but it resides in my head for now.


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## Rndmann9

What's the length of those couplings just out of curiosity ? I need it to be around an inch. This was the concept so far.


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## Blogwitch

Gail,

You are quite correct about the spring type couplings, they are much cheaper. The 1" Oldham ones cost me, in your money, about $30 for each complete one. But I always look on them as being good insurance, never need to be looked at again.

R,

If you follow the link I gave to Arc Euro, on that first page, it gives the general sizes of the component parts for each size OD.

John


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## Rndmann9

I'll check it out.  Been roughing out the part that mounts to the mill.


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## Rndmann9

I decided to thicken the stepper side a bit so I could recess the screws.


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## Rndmann9

Another milestone perhaps more important than the mechanics. Got the brains working I'll get it all tuned up once I get everything put together hopefully soon. Turns out there is a free cam generator add on with one of my drafting programs I use for work so that is an awesome thing (autodesk inventor- with hsm). I work in construction and use revit on a daily basis but inventor is part of my software suite and I use it a lot at home.  If your not familiar with it it's awesome for mechanical design. You can model stuff and then make it work before building it. What I did the above models in. ^


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## Rndmann9

Little further along. Y assembly is almost finished.  Prob start x tomorrow hopefully.


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> Little further along. Y assembly is almost finished.  Prob start x tomorrow hopefully.



Just curious - Have you decided on a thrust bearing scheme?
Robert


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## Rndmann9

Actually I'm kinda leaning towards an angular contact bearing now since it would act as a mix of thrust and roller bearing.  5201 I think is the size I'm looking at at least for the y axis.  I would just have to bore the diameter and depth in the end of the t shaped. Piece pictured above.


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> . . .  I would just have to bore the diameter and depth in the end of the t shaped. Piece pictured above.



The Y has me thinking . For the X I used a couple of thrust bearing on the right side  [might be overkill] - Bored into the existing retainer, each side leaving a web in the middle - Hand crank lock nut does the holding. Other end (stepper end) has one of the regular bearing types to keep shaft and stepper aligned. The Y . . . Only one end has bearing support and not a lot of room to work with . . . 






Something will come up . . .


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## Rndmann9

Sounds/looks like we are about in the same place in this journey.  That could be helpful.  I'm trying to keep the manual functionality of my mill since I don't want to program something quick and simple like milling a quick flat or slot on something so I am planning to mount my x motor on the left. I got my z axis motor in the mail today so I have been messing around with it and trying to figure out the cam software some more.  I have to take my table apart to measure everything so I can model it (I've only gotten the y so far ),I mostly know what I want to do but still a pain.  Especially since I still need it here and there. ( wish I had two mills).   I want a complete mill model in my inventor program so I can toy with designs and improvements without waste. Kind of a pain. Been thinking about how to do the z axis too.  I think I'm going to utilize the fine feed screw on the x2 mill.  Has a ton of backlash but I think I can compensate on the software side.  Might go into the arduino Code if I can't fix it in the firm ware or cam generator. I don't want to go to ball screws just yet.  What kind of mill are you working with.  Looks like it's a much bigger table than the x2.  Might move on to my lathe if I get this working satisfactory.


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## Rndmann9

My y is the same.  I was surprised to see it had no bearings at all.  I think the x has two thrust bearings but I might find a surprise there too?  We will find out real soon. I think both. Acme screws kind of free float after they pass through the nut on mine but my x screw is slotted on one end for a drive.  Might come in handy??


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> My y is the same.  I was surprised to see it had no bearings at all.  . . .



Yup no bearings on the shafts - - For the end user to install . .

Same kind of mess to figure out - don't want to just start hacking away at the existing structure - Gonna have to stare at it for a while and see what turns up . . . Fortunately the belt pulley is robust enough that it can be adapted to take some bearing . It's the stepper side - don't really want to load its shaft with the tension load of the belt, so will have to find room to mount a bearing shaft for that  . . .


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## Rndmann9

Well after tearing mine down....first time in about 8 years.  X has two 52100 (10mmbore26x11mm)thrust bearings but y has none. I bought a 5200 axial bearing for the y but still not sure I want to use it.  Bigger than I thought but I can always use it on something else if I don't use it for this.  Almost done modeling.


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## Foozer

Am watching to see what you come up with . . .


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## Rndmann9

Well got a little more done.  Mounted the x axis. I put a 12-24-6.35 thrust bearing on the machine side of the y mount.  Prob going to add another to the motor side tomorrow. Prob going to remake this mount but going to run with this version to see what problems I can uncover.


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## Rndmann9

Here is the boring for the machine side


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## Rndmann9

Little more to go


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## Rndmann9

And a snug fit


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## Rndmann9

Did bring it to life just to prove to myself it would work. Noticed some binding on the y so I'm going to add another bearing on the motor side. But happy to see it move.  Have a video but dot think I can post it.


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## Foozer

Now your cooking with gas . . .

One thing I am not is a designer, I like to see how others have done things and look for the best practice - - A COC of how I did the X-Axis, put the thrust bearings at the handle side and a bearing on the motor side - Idea was to have the shaft supported by itself and not by the stepper.

Still dink'n with the Y, want to keep the turn handle in place so driving it from the rear of the table is the option, an option that has a few 'Oh Darn' moments of its own going on.  Making balsa mock-ups to get an idea of the fit-up . .


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## Rndmann9

Luckily I do 3d Models for construction for a living so I have some pretty sweet software.  I added a 10 x 24 x 9 thrust bearing on the motor side of the y mount this morning which is in the gif.  The x mount is a little different.  Even though I can model this stuff I still like to improvise. Ill update the model later.  Actually I prefer to just do it then model it later but that really isnt all that efficient.  I dont like to be bound by plans in the shop or real life.  lol  The Zip file is an animated exploded view of how its put together right now....except for a couple of details on the x side. 

View attachment Axis Explode.zip


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## Rndmann9

Not sure you can see what's going on here but the x turned out pretty simple.  The lead had a slot in it so I made a 2.5 inch coupler out of steel. One side has a "blade" the fits into the slot. The other side is a female end with two set screws at 90deg to match the stepper shaft.  Works pretty smoothly.


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## Rndmann9

IN the gif the blade side looks threaded.  I was going to make a screw on sleeve to keep the two shafts together.  Turns out I didn't need it so I never threaded it.  Makes it easy to disassemble and the nature of the coupler allows them to flex and not bind if needed.


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## Rndmann9

Also got the other bearing added before I had to take my wife to the airport


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## Foozer

Like that 'Blade' type connection -  That's the avenue I am thinking to attach the Y axis drive from the rear -  So I let the X-Axis run back and forth for a couple hours, glitch to turn up was the coupling [motor side] started walking loose. Is a compression type coupling so added an 8-32 set screw to tighten down on the motor shaft - Glitch solved -

Long as your taking the bride to the airport, wanna take mine? She's smiling as she always does when she wants something done - Like pick up an Organ she found - - She can't play, she just thinks it looks nice  - - -


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## Rndmann9

Ha. I know that look!   Yea my y coupling is slipping,that shaft is much harder to turn always has been.  I'm thinking of putting a set screw in it so I can crank it down.  Also temped to jump on Amazon and see what I can find on there.  The stand offs I had made are a little short with the coupling I have.  I can A. Make new ones. Simple but I don't really want to or B. find a coupling that works in the geometry available.  It's the rubber piece in the middle that's the problem.  I should get some decent shop time in the next few days. My oldest boy and the youngest boy went to grandmas , wife is in Michigan till Tuesday and middle son is glued to the video games and leaves for soccer camp Tuesday. Want get any next week since I'll be on vacation. That is if I can stand the heat.  Not too bad after dark especially if I pop the garage door. I made a brass bushing so I could use one of the original hand wheel nuts - don't know if I need it but it's there now.  Lol. I might just cheat and make some temporary ones with aluminum tube threaded rod and some nuts until I'm motivated.   I just don't feel like turning four post drilling and tapping both ends x 4 today but I want to mess with the machine later....so torn.


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## Rndmann9

Random side note I discovered a metal supplier in town this week too.  Usually I order from online metals but I discovered the metal supermarket which opened under my nose ten months ago.  Pretty excited about it because shipping cost put a damper on my orders usually. They apparently opened on my birthday last year so it was meant to be.


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> Ha. I know that look!   Yea my y coupling is slipping . . .



That coupling is the same I got - Putting a set screw in to bite down on the D-Shaft of the stepper stopped the wandering.

Am now the proud owner of an Organ - - Happy Happy Joy Joy - - 
Plan is to downsize next year, get out of this big ol house into something small  - Haven't checked the manual but was sure that means 'Don't bring more stuff in . . . . '


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## Rndmann9

I'm trying to do the opposite bigger house much bigger yard.  Busting at the seams now. And 1/4 acre isn't very conducive to most of my hobbies ( reloading,shooting,anything out side). I hate living in the city.  We have a farm 200acres at the beach which is where I'll be all next week,  my happy place.  If work would let me work from home I'd move there.  You should return the favor. My wife " loves " this.


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## Rndmann9

Ok finally made a mount and got the z motor mounted and moving.  I have to mount some limit switches and hopefully be up and running real soon. Sorry for the upside down pic. Apple sucks.


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## Foozer

It's Alive - - 

Have my Y axis drive setup 90% [?] in order - Soon as/when/if I find the cord to grab the pic from the camera - - - The applesauce brain of mine can never 'member where it is the thing was put to be found again . . .


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## Rndmann9

Still fighting my y axis. Still binding in spots. Coupling slippage still a problem.  I ordered another coupling to maybe grip it on the 10mm part of the shaft and with luck I can use the key slot to lock it down.  I also ordered a 16mm x 300mm ball screw if option A doesn't work and I'll just make a new shaft for the y.  Didn't want to go there but it's time to get tough on it.  Other than that other two axises are moving well.


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## Rndmann9

Once I get that I have to figure out how to adjust for backlash.  Might need to modify arduino script some. It's not bad but exist.


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## Foozer

After I added the additional set screw to hit the flat on the stepper shaft, tightened down the clamp screw, then the set screw for the flat. Took it apart and where the mark was on the flat took a center punch and gave that spot a whack [I didn't say that out loud, did I] 

With a little "Tooth" to bite on, it stopped creeping back.


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## Rndmann9

Mine is grabbing on the 12mm of thread that formerly was where the two jamb nuts were.  I ordered a 8-10mm coupling to maybe grip it on the 10mm smooth section.  My problem was when it bound it would basically screw itself on or off the shaft. Was trying not to damage the threads though. I've tried three different 8-8 couplings but had similar results with each after a while.  Also having some trouble with my limit switches tripping as soon as a move starts.  Must be picking up noise somewhere so I might make some high pass filters to eliminate that.  Most of the cable is shielded but I guess the little bit that isn't is playing antenna. For now I'm just using soft limits to keep it from sacrificing itself. Aggrivated  with the y though.  Tired of messing with it so Tuesday I guess I'll be on the lathe making a new shaft from the ball screw.  Either way it's easy to reverse if need be.  Wish I had two mills now.   I'll prob get a bigger one if I ever move which is soon hopefully but I only want to move it once.  I want a new lathe too but same applies. Still trying to get a grip on the grbl program and universal g code sender.  Does some strange things with the g code sometimes- so I am still trying to figure out what it wants as far as set up and coordinates go.


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## Foozer

Ah, that's right, yours is a front drive - I went at from the rear to keep the manual turn handle in place - With enable OFF they turn as if no motor was attached - Enable On, have to overcome the steppers holding torque to turn it . .

Electronics - Blah - - Last Good to First Bad and ground everything . .


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## Rndmann9

Yea the way the column mounts prevents back option for me.  So far 8-10mm coupling is working.  I borrowed your idea and put a slight dimple in the shaft with a drill. ( if converted back to original that part of the shaft would be in the handle so the dimple is irrelevant as far as that goes).  I also machined a backup plan if my y axis keeps giving me grief.


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## Rndmann9

Never disassembled and reassembled a ball nut. Interesting but not as hard as people make it out to be.  I found it relatively easy once I figured out my method. It was a much harder task machining the screw if compared.


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## Foozer

Ball nuts? That's getting fancy - - I'm still in the age of stone ax and flint knife . . . Myself am just dink'n around seeing what I can and cannot do with the contraption. Have to remount the Y motor  - Flip it 180 - As it is, the motors just clear each other, if I put the little rear cover on [cosmetic thing] then they hit - Plus can flip the pulley's around and move the belt farther aft . .
Stuck a photo on my arduino thread

The Y, Yup with the windshield washer motor I used originally tapped the coupling to thread onto the motors existing threaded shaft,  dimpled into the threads where the set screws rested and lock tight - Never came loose, rather than come loose, the spring type coupling snapped . . .


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## Rndmann9

Well after another brief vacation and some minor ADD I got my ball screw mounted and moving.  I was having trouble getting it to fit and did a fair amount of grinding on the bottom of the saddle to create some relief.  Was going slow so I got fed up this morning and took it over to a machine shop down the road and milled out the area I needed relief.  Man I'm jeolous of the old man running the shops toys.  I think I made a new friend.  Lol.  He mounted a mill in his Bridgeport and looked at me and said ok she is all yours.  Pretty trusting if you ask me.  I don't let anyone near my tools.  Told him I might just have to become some free labor on the weekends just to learn more than I already know and maybe gain some access to some tools I can't afford  Anywho. Got a few more pieces to put back on and I will be trying to get over this learning curve again. I'm ready for the weather to cool off its hot in the shop and I'm about to get busy coaching soccer for the next three months so I'm hoping to get all the fab-ing done soon.


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> . . ..  Was going slow so I got fed up this morning and took it over to a machine shop down the road and milled out the area I needed relief.



Times when you hit a little roadblock it's better to hire the earth mover than to try and use a spoon - - - Spoon will frustrate while the earthmover is fun.

Pictures - - when you get a chance. Time now to load a hunk of stock and set up an hour or so of cutting time - Gizmo is bolted to the wall so the bass sound of it runs throughout the house, drives the bride crazy . . .

If you can't have some fun, it ain't worth doing . .


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## Rndmann9

Ha. I know how that goes.  Mine informed me I left my big compressor on and it cycled on this morning and woke her up.  That's what she gets for falling asleep on the couch. Lol. I try to get some pics up soon.


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## Rndmann9

Here is a run down of what I modified to make the ball screw work.  Biggest problem was making room so it sat level and not forced into a slight angle along the length. Red is what was either ground (on the ball nut) or milled from the bottom of the saddle to create some space.  Ill take some pics of it installed but not sure how much you can see.  Only part not shown is the aluminum slug the ball nut was screwed to that basically took the place of the brass acme nut.  It just sits in the slot of the saddle to actuate it back and forth and is held in place with a set screw.  That part is pretty generic so I am not showing it yet.  Ill put a  pic together when I get a minute to show how they fit together.  No Binding now...so far at least.  Seems to be moving smoothly.


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## Rndmann9

Well what the heck while im drawing stuff here is the missing component for clarity.


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## Foozer

You're moving right along - - -

Next advent for me is to take the timing pulleys and such down to the machine shop in town and have some little key-ways broached in. Can cut the slots into the shafts - Broaching? Ah No . .

Little pulleys have little set screws - Little set screws have a negative attitude -  Little key-ways have positive attitude - Positive Good, Negative not so much . .


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## Nick Hulme

Foozer said:


> Broaching? Ah No . .



What you need is a nice little bench-top Adept hand operated shaper ;-)


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## Rndmann9

Could prob do it with a lathe using the saddle movement and cross slide to control depth and a custom cutter to cut the groove.  I've never tried it but I have seen it done that way in a pinch.


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## Rndmann9

https://youtu.be/HR1pvQYFFck


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## Rndmann9

Finally got out to take some pictures before I put the swarf guards back on.


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## Rndmann9

And one more upside down pic where you can bairly see the ball nut.


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## Rndmann9

Also trying out a new GUI, I think I like this one better than the other one so far.


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## Rndmann9

These pics?  I have even flipped them in the editor and they still post upside down. Apple is a product I love to hate.


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## Foozer

Like that big screen - Lot better than the 20X4 LCD display I'm using - -  Found a new toy - a SNES controller, four extra buttons, now I can button in X Axis distance along with Y Axis and Jog feature.


void getButtonData()
{
  digitalWrite(nesLatch, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(nesLatch,  LOW);
  for (int x = 0; x <= 11; x++)
  {
    bitWrite(nesButtonData, x, digitalRead(nesData));
    digitalWrite(nesClock, HIGH);
    digitalWrite(nesClock,  LOW);
  }
}

My OCD is colliding with my ADD . . .

I've snapped two of those spring type couplers  - they argue and win when I turn the hand wheel while the stepper enable is on   Sticking with the little Lovejoys . . .

Hmm Etch-A-Sketch - two small steppers sitting on the shelf? I see more useless but obsessive compulsive  time coming up . .


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## Rndmann9

I'll use it till i breaks. Yea screen is my wife's old laptop.  When I got a new one she had to have a new one too.  Only fair.  She broke the switch on it so I took it apart and wired a tiny momentary contact switch that I salvaged out of something and "fixed" it.  Now it's my garage computer.  I use it for the arduinos and stuff when I'm out there.  I can't throw stuff away. I salvage and give it new life. Lol thinking of figuring out the limit switch noise this weekend.  Sorta put it on the back burner and got destracted fixing the y axis...doesn't take much to distract me.  Also been playing around trying to learn Python.  Don't know why but thought it might come in handy one day. I'm weird like that. Nickname back when I was in college was random man because I either had one or knew how to for everything.  What happens when you don't waste your childhood playing video games.  Speaking of which I was thinking of digging out my old nes controller.  I have one somewhere that I used to control a little car I made twenty years ago. Yours made me think of it and had me wondering.  Don't have a control dongle might need to change that. Also thought about using the wii controller but don't really need the accelerometers in it so prob want do that. Got to get my limit switches in place before I do any more milling but I'm itching to get it going again.  Prob will take me five minutes to fix and weeks to research to pick best option.  You know how that goes.


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## Rndmann9

Just curious are you writing functions or just one long code?  Functions make it more modular/ configurable. Easier to debug too.


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## Rndmann9

The gui is called grbl panel. Free download From get hub.  The other one I was using was universal code sender.  Both I think we're meant to use the Gshield I'm using to control my steppers which plugs into my sacrificial arduino uno.  I keep another uno with me most of the time for whatever. Told my wife it's the electronic version of a Swiss Army knife. Use it for all kinds of stuff if not just for entertainment. Here is how I entertained the 6 yr old earlier this week clicking relays and blinking lights...I admit I was entertained too.


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## Rndmann9

Duh. Void getbuttondata().  Obviously a function never mind....


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## Foozer

I have a limit switch that is acting up - Routed with shielded cable so shouldn't be picking up noise - Think I'll put a small delay in the sw read and/or change out the switch . .

Functions - That way when I break something it's just inside the function I have to look - - That's bad, I actually sorta know what i just wrote . .

 case btn_Right:     // 191 ---> Button
      RunRight();
      break;


Controller is apparently just a shift register - each button or combination of buttons spits out a unique number - looking at one of those little membrane keypads - Tie it to the guts of a standard NES controller and go from 8 pins to three on arduino.

But if it ain't broken, I'm not trying hard enough.
I just had to reroute the car wiring, really just had to - - Wasn't broken, everything worked fine . . .  You know where this is going . .

Ok off to try and cut a Bezel cover for the 20X4 display - One that actually sorta fits . . . Been put'n with it to compensate for the backlash

{ //    Three

      for (int jog = 0; jog < (stepsY * 1440); jog++) // 32 steps = 0.001"
        Stepper.CCW(stepY, dirY, 600);
      delay(150);
    }
. . . 
 { //   Five

      for (int jog = 0; jog <= (stepsY * 1453); jog++) // 32 steps = 0.001"
        Stepper.CW(stepY, dirY, 600);
      delay(150);
    }

OOPS - the bride says her A/C quit - Like I know when the vacuum pump and gauges are - - - Guess my day just got rescheduled . .


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## Rndmann9

These are about 4bucks on Amazon. Really flat and the back has a peal away adhesive.   Yea I have a water pump to change in the near future. Ordered it yesterday for the Mrs.  I'm thinking about trying a choke before I bust out the resisters and caps to make a filter.   Mine goes into alarm the second the table starts moving. I don't have an o scope anymore ( need to change that soon) to find out where the noise is coming from.  Doesn't need much dampening so maybe a ferrite choke will do?  Might have to play with the number of wraps though.  Just seems less invasive and doesn't involve anymore soldering but as always I have a back up plan.  My ac stopped working years ago in my company car - I'm do for a new one- but as long as the Windows work I'm good. I've been doing a little research on backlash comp too. The z has 1.4mm both directions. Y should be almost 0 now and x...well I'll have to remeasure because I don't remember. It's easy to add it in the Gcode in post processing but I like to do things the hard way I want to automate the adjustment.  Direction change + compensation = total movement.


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## Rndmann9

74hc595 is an ic shift reg that might let you lessen you pin footprint too.


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## Rndmann9

Scratch that this is prob a better option.  It would knock it to two pins rx tx plus power and ground using i2c protocol. 
https://www.adafruit.com/product/593

The other IC might be better for your lcd.  Not sure how you wired it parallel or serial.


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## Foozer

I just set it up to mill an inside box in some plastic and adj the steps traveled until the meeting point leaves no lip. Shars table 13 tho backlash
Have some 1/2 x 10 acme and some derlin - could  . . . . . .

Adafruit - Just got a couple of their LCD backpacks -PRODUCT ID: 292 They have jumpers so the address can be changed - Now can use two 20X4 LCD units [or more chained together] one at say 0x20 other at 0x21

Got her A/C all cold again - Has a peckerwood leak 'bout 12 oz loss over a year time - I can live with that . .

Need to actually make something  - thinking of a tool grinding rest


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## Rndmann9

I have another thread on here where I made one of those for my harbor freight grinder.  Ones that came on it were horrible.  Check it out if you need ideas. I unsoldered the direct wires on the shield and soldered an 8 pin header.  Should make experiments with filters a little easier.


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## Foozer

Ya - Played with one of those keypads using resistors as voltage drops - Too many moving parts for me. For Jog just using 
void stepXPlus1()     //  Start + Up
{
  stepsX = (stepsX + 16);         //  16 = 0.001
  if (stepsX <= 16)stepsX = 16;   // Default
  cursorOn(); // print to LCD
  delay(jogdelay);
}
void stepXPlus10()     //  Start + Right
{
  stepsX = (stepsX + 160);      //  160 = 0.010
  if (stepsX <= 16)stepsX = 16;   // Default
  cursorOn(); // Print to LCD
  delay(jogdelay);
}
Start-Left, Start-Down increment to the minus . .

With the SNES can add a times 100 choice - But then as long as I hold the button(s) down it'll increment up quick enough . .


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## Rndmann9

Ok I think I have finally worked out the limit switch issue.  Guess I'll be soldering up a more permanent solution this weekend.  I'm pretty sure I had a loose joint on one of my grounds. I clipped an alligator clip to jump it and eureka.  Loose grounds are tough to track down sometimes.  I also was probably holding my mouth wrong. Now that that's sorted out I'll solder up the low pass filters,  don't really think I need them but can't hurt either.  It's just an rc filter anyways. Resister in series and and a 45uf cap to ground.  About as simple as they get.  I almost got ugly with it and busted out some transistors to make a more discriminate filter but it didn't come to that.  need to mount the switches solidly too.  Right now they are just hot glued in place.  Works great for a semi strong hold that you can just rip off and redo at will.  I love my hot glue gun for mock up stuff.  It's been good to me for the last 18 years.  Pretty sure I got my $8 out of it.


----------



## Foozer

Last Good to First Bad and therein lays the error . . . It's always after tossing out the wild and crazy, the simplest of things that cause the most grief . . .

Still have one limit switch that triggers on it's own, changed the switch - Nada - Other one hasn't faltered at all so can eliminate the code - Sitting here telling myself, I know what it is -I ran the wires into the Arduino header pins, I didn't solder them in just in case I might of had to change the pin layout - Nickie to donuts that switch wire probably got clipped too short and is just barely making contact . . .

Like the car - changed the cam - long as the bay had room to crawl around in, rerouted the wiring - Have an oil pressure switch to relay to fuel pump - oil pressure falls fuel pump shuts off -Tapped the switch to the +side of the coil - Not working - Worked before - - Last Good First Bad, first bad? Me . .

Have a MSD ignition [cap discharge] is no +Vcc at the coil - Duh - rerouted the ignition Vcc forgetting that the relay switch power has to come from it, not from the coil . . . Now to sneak in about 6 feet of 18 gauge from the MSD ignition power, which is now tucked away up front under the fender to the oil pressure sw laying over a motor all back together . . . 

Ok  - Real Question . end mill brands that won't chip out after a few passes -  Ones that won't break the bank . .


----------



## Rndmann9

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=-1180321415&First=E&Last=E 
if your close to California.  I'm on the east coast US so everything I order takes a week to get here. 

Or harbor freight.   I think I got a set from HF a few years ago that I have been using for years.


----------



## Foozer

Got the limit switch thing fixed - - Soldered the wires to the board, let it cycle 20 times and no hiccups . . .

Have tried HF and Little Machine Shop products - All HSS, will try a harder material one and see how that works - If a 10 buck one will out last three 4 buck ones . . . Got one that I wish I knew who made it - rounded edges, it just won't give up the ghost - gives a nice [to me] finish . . .


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## Rndmann9

Got mine whipped today too.  Got to get the switches mounted permanently now. Maybe tonight once it cools off a little.  Check grizzly.  Mine from HF are titanium coated - gold colored - so far I haven't aced one and have had them a few years.   Check Amazon too. Kind of all over the place price wise.   Had one goof when fixing the switches.  Easy fix though.  My arduino is a r3 which is great if I plug the Gshield in directly, which is how I have been using it. For the fix for the limit switches I decided to use an old Proto board I had...apparently it's old enough to be an r2 which is 2 pins shorter on the power bus. So when I sandwiched all the shields together no power to the motors.  G shield has provisions to accommodate both but I had to cut a trace and solder in a jumper.  No big deal but something that wasn't part of the original plan.


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## Foozer

The end product is as I always tell the Bride - Is how I planned it to be  . . .

She just pats my head and says 'Thats a Good Boy'


----------



## Foozer

What I thought was a limit switch glitch - Wasn't - Can adjust the switch positions for X travel, hit the switch and reverse direction or set them as actual stop switches and just X travel defined distance [e.g. cutting a slot]

You know that Dir pin on the controller? Boy does the motor like to speak should that wire become loose - This way, That way, No way - - - 

Itty Bitty screws and my fat mud hands don't go along so well - thing one never whats to feel is "Hey it's getting easier to turn" So just closed my eyes, bit my tongue, gave all the screws a good twist. 

Now to spin my wheels some more and see what I can to stop the pin float should a screw come loose in the future - -


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## Blogwitch

Foozer,

I have only just got everything together for my mill conversion, and because there are so many screwed wire joints I have invested (very cheap) in some square shaped variable size crimping pliers and the correct sized ferrules for each wire diameter. This will make sure that no wire strands are weakened or cut and so causing the joints to fail, unless of course you are using single strand wire.
Over the years when I have been using screw terminals with electrical or electronic parts, invariably, some of the strands get sheared off as the screw is tightened and can cause all sorts of problems, mainly because there are not enough good strands left to carry the required amperage. When you are searching for faults, such breakages don't show up on a continuity test as it is passing electricity, but not enough to keep things stable.
I also have a tiny solder pot (again very cheap) where the ends of the wire are first dipped into fluid flux and then into the pot, this again helps prevent the broken wire syndrome.

Hope this helps

John


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## Rndmann9

Got side tracked by three different things this week - first was to do some freelance drafting for a company that makes fume hoods. Got that done in 13 hours unexpected but welcome 1500 bucks.  second I found some nice heavy duty limit switches so I delayed mounting my other ones in a perminant way. Now I need to figure out where and how to mount these.  I like them because they are adjustable.


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## Rndmann9

Then I did some gray matter crunching and figured out a way to control my g shield with a usb game controller.  Used auto hot key to remap and control many of the functions with it. Still working on it some.  It's done but now I am "improving" my program.  Direction pad controls x and y trigger left is z down trigger right is z up. "back" unlocks it after alarm or start up. " Start " homes it. "X" resets motor controller "y and b "adjust the jog distance up or down.  Left upper trigger holds. Right upper trigger resumes. Clicking right joy stick goes to g28. Clicking right joy stick zeros xyz of active wcs.   I'm thinking of making the left joy stick control my mouse and haven't decided on right. Maybe rapid transit. Enough distractions for one week.  I have to get those switches mounted even though the hot glued ones work fine for now.  I'm using a g shield so I'm not sure how it sends direction to the motor.  I'll have to dig into the code.  Also got it all mounted a little neater in a semi perm housing.


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## Rndmann9

Controller mounting.


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## Rndmann9

And one last upside down pic just because


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## Rndmann9

This mounts on the arduino. And uses grbl to control motors.  Plus side is its almost plug and play.  Down side is your only able to drive about 2A per motor.  I had to improvise for a pendant ^ it's not really designed to have one.  Game controller mimics a mouse click at specific coordinates of the gui for most of the controls.


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## Blogwitch

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New....1.JL4xJA&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,search


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## Foozer

Kid gave me one of those controllers - Way to many buttons for me this day, I'd want to use them all and would get lost in the process.

2 Amp ? flipped the switches on the driver down to 2A - motor  - A 425 inoz nema 23 was not happy. It wants 4 amp and that's what I'm giving it - powered by a 48v supply. As Bogs was saying, current matters . . .

Buttons . . . Winters coming - A what the heck project - SNES controller, some keypads - easy enough to tie the keypad to the controller innards- Rather than use 8 or 9 arduino pins, knocks it down to 3, data, clock and latch.





...

Limit Switch - Little one, big one, big one takes up some real estate, tho its robustness probably makes up for it . . . I just haven't figured out a place to mount them yet . . .


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## RonGinger

> I also have a tiny solder pot (again very cheap) where the ends of the  wire are first dipped into fluid flux and then into the pot, this again  helps prevent the broken wire syndrome.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> John



In some places this is not considered good practice. The solder can 'cold flow' under the screw and become loose, or intermittent. I marine practice this is considered bad because the wire will develop a hard spot at the end of the solder and strands will break there because of vibration.

I often do it myself because I think the control of loose wires strands is worth it. Another of those trade-offs we must deal with.


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## Rndmann9

All of my motors are rated under two amps to keep my controller happy and from overheating - Driving more than 2A would probably let out the magic smoke.  I may go to a different driver in the future but this one seems to be working fine for now.   The X and Y probably could stand to be a little larger but they seem to move the table without any problems especially since I converted the Y acme screw to a ball screw.  The power supply I have supplies 24V up to 15A of power and the motors are being driven with 24V -  Steppers tend to be less efficient if you drive them with 12V.  The new limit switches I have are from TemCo.  Much more heavy duty than the little lever limits I am currently using.  Much Bigger too so I need to figure out how I want to mount them.  I might mount them internally so they are out of sight at least for the Y axis.  I like how I can adjust  the arm length and the direction it "points".  Thinking about your loose wire situation-  Wonder if you could run it through a transistor so that if it comes loose it sends the signal to ground instead of making your motors dance.  More of a passive switch.  I used spade connectors with Heat shrink to insulate on the connections that I wanted to be able to pull apart (Limit Switches).  Only thing I have soldered was where I made a splice in the wires and then used really thin heat shrink over those to make neat.  I also soldered the low pass filters that I made for the limit switches-  I made an arduino shield for those so its sandwiched between the Arduino and the G-shield. The screw down lugs on the motor driver so far have not given me any problems.   The USB controller (Pendant),I like-  I got all the essential buttons programmed which allows me to not fumble with the touchpad on my laptop.  Now I can keep my head over the mill instead of my laptop.  I just have to remember the buttons since I just finished it yesterday I dont have them completely memorized yet. I did program them in a somewhat natural order so they are where you would think they should be on the controller.  Shouldnt take long to be second nature.  Have you looked into using a shift register to cut down on your pin usage?  Most of them you can use to send info either in Parallel or Serial- Not sure how you have yours programmed.  Amazon has been a huge source of alot of my material-  Im sure this project has really boosted someones amazon stock portfolio.  I also pinged the Inventor HSM Engineers yesterday- Thats what I am using to create my G-Code-  Same program I used for the parts pictured early in this thread.  I can kick G-Code straight out of it which is nice.  I just have to figure out how to use it right.  Sometimes when It should zig it zags so I need to figure out where I went wrong.  Im pretty sure I stumped him with my questions.  I also asked him how I could automatically compensate for any backlash on direction changes in the code -  I could alway modify part of the code for this but there should be a way to do it automatically like Mach3 does.


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## Foozer

Years ago, fudge decades ago - - -






When bored, put popcorn into the waveguide - - -

Shift register - Yup - that's the thing in the SNES controller. Read the outputs from the button presses and use those to run the functions.
e.g. 
// Free Run Table
#define btn_Up           4079//  Button Up
#define btn_Down         4063//  Button Down
#define btn_Right        3967//  Button Right
#define btn_Left         4031//  Button Left
//
//  Set X distance
#define btn_stepPlus1    4071//  Start + Up
#define btn_stepMinus1   4055//  Start + Down
#define btn_stepMinus10  3959//  Start + Right 
#define btn_stepPlus10   4023//  Start + Left

Me and component level creation never got along so well, If I can hack an existing thing [black box] to do a thing, works for me. The innards of the controller have large copper button pads suitable for attaching wires to, Wires to a keypad and Poof - Keypad control.
But muscle memory is already setting in using the SNES controller, this button does that, that button does this, those two together do another . . .

That one loose wire was a hoot and holler show. Component box is mounted to the wall, Press is tied to the wall - There were dancing in harmony - Dir signal bouncing, step not knowing what to do motor just buzzed. Though I blew a controller out at first - Advantage to making everything compartmental is simple swapping of motor leads showed the control was fine [last good] Gave the box a good whack, things went back to normal [first bad] so loose wire became the thing to look for.

If Dir flips from High to Low, motor is just going to go the other way, just the way it is. 

Now to drag myself to the car - No spark - MSD ignition worked fine before I got the bright idea of Fixing It . .


----------



## Rndmann9

Ha,  I have always said if you can't "fix it" with a hammer it isn't worth fixing. Lol.


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## Rndmann9

Vietnam huh.  Little before my time.  Ended 5 years before I was born.  Lol I'm a young whipper snapper with an old soul.


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## Rndmann9

I lied. One more distraction. Fought and so far have lost against my gas trimmer today. Will only run on full choke. So either a jets clogged or air leak right?   Nope. Tore down cleaned and reassembled carb. Replaced plug.  Fresh gas fresh oil mix. Inspected gas lines. Made sure fuel cap vent wasn't clogged,  Cleaned spark arrester ...no dice.  Only thing I have not done is replace fuel lines out right.  Guess that's on the agenda tomorrow.  Stupid things haven't ran right since California's epa hippies ruined everything with their enviro laws.  Lol. On the same subject I bought a new gas can.  The ones with the green valve mandated by epa to limit fuel spills.  So effective that gas will only come out from around the cap nothing from the spout....  It would leak less if I shot holes in it.  I had to break the mechanism just to make it work.  I think this new environmentally safe model has leaked more fuel in the short time I have had it than all the other ones I have owned combined.  No vents so if the sun warms it look out cause it's going to spray everywhere not to mention how it belches fuel in spurts which is very effective at filling a small tank and dousing everything around it.  Lol.  amazing how the gov can ruin something as simple as a gas can.  speaking of vents. I feel better already. Hahaha


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## rodw

Rndmann9 said:


> I lied. One more distraction. Fought and so far have lost against my gas trimmer today. Will only run on full choke.



Check that a welsch plug has not come adrift in the carby. They don't punch them in, just use glue. I took my son in laws not running whipper snipper home because it would not run and that was the problem. They say to use nail polish but I had none so made do with some locktite retaining compound and a gentle tap with a punch to seat the plug. I was amazed at my trouble shooting skills on that one.


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## Rndmann9

I completely took the carb apart and cleaned it.  Everything on it was as it should be.  i think I have a pin hole in a fuel line or something.  Only thing left that could starve it of fuel.   They started putting ethanol in gas here in the states - even though I by ethanol free for my mowers I wouldn't be surprised if it was there.  It distroy so gas lines in short order.  I got compression, it's getting air,  it's getting fire so fuel is the issue. Or lack of it.   Most trimmers don't even have carb adjustment screws anymore or the have some strange tamper resistant screws whee they were preset by epa mandates. Mine has no adjustments other than the throttle.


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## Foozer

Remove gas cap from trimmer
Replace trimmer
Reinstall gas cap


----------



## Rndmann9

Hahaha. That might be my back up plan.  My luck the cap wouldn't fit.  I have three one is electric.  Might have to get it out of retirement. One is just the engine since I usually can fix them.  This one is just testing me that's all.


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## Rndmann9

I was going to let my oldest son take the one that's just the engine, apart so he could learn how they tick.  When I was his age I didn't ask. I took everything apart to see what made them tick much to my moms dismay. Kids don't have that sense of curiousity anymore. I never lost it. Thank god.  My youngest shows promise if he doesn't burn the house down.  Obcessed with fire as he should be.


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## Foozer

My kids thought they were 'All That' in their younger days, Gave em two sticks and told them to make fire . . .

Had a chain saw that acted like your trimmer, wouldn't start and if it did ran like [c]rap - case had a small crack in it.

This must be Murphys small problem week. First had to road side rescue the bride, car died - - fuel pump fuse blew, easy enough but what made it go? Alt is on the same circuit, little rattle noise coming from engine bay, grab a hunk of rod so can listen to the alt, didn't have to, alt started spitting sparks out the back - Oh Dear I think I found the problem, I say
I've been telling you cars been making funny noises for a week, She says
But you did turn the radio up till the noise went away, I said
Don't need to repeat what she said - - -
Today I get to change the alt, front wheel drive, underneath in the back


----------



## Rndmann9

I have taught them to make fire from sticks but they are not patent enough.  They still try everyonce in a while since I keep a bow drill out in the garage.   Got some new fuel lines so off to changing those.  Trimmer is only in its second summer.  I think the gas turned on me while I was on vacation. Had a lot of rain here.   It worked fine before that. my wife's grand caravan is a peach to work on. Everything is hard to get to.  Just changing the plugs requires me to tap my inner contortionist.  Next up on hers is the water pump.  I think I can reach it through the passenger wheel well.  We shall see but that's for another day.  Trying to get this done because I have to fly to Nashville Tuesday return Wednesday for work.


----------



## Rndmann9

VICTORY.  She is running like a champ now.  Tore the carb down again and cleaned it for good measure.  Worked this time.  Guess I'll be doing some trimming tomorrow since I have run out of daylight.


----------



## Wizard69

Rndmann9 said:


> I lied. One more distraction. Fought and so far have lost against my gas trimmer today. Will only run on full choke. So either a jets clogged or air leak right?   Nope. Tore down cleaned and reassembled carb. Replaced plug.  Fresh gas fresh oil mix. Inspected gas lines. Made sure fuel cap vent wasn't clogged,  Cleaned spark arrester ...no dice.  Only thing I have not done is replace fuel lines out right.  Guess that's on the agenda tomorrow.  Stupid things haven't ran right since California's epa hippies ruined everything with their enviro laws.  Lol. On the same subject I bought a new gas can.  The ones with the green valve mandated by epa to limit fuel spills.  So effective that gas will only come out from around the cap nothing from the spout....  It would leak less if I shot holes in it.  I had to break the mechanism just to make it work.  I think this new environmentally safe model has leaked more fuel in the short time I have had it than all the other ones I have owned combined.  No vents so if the sun warms it look out cause it's going to spray everywhere not to mention how it belches fuel in spurts which is very effective at filling a small tank and dousing everything around it.  Lol.  amazing how the gov can ruin something as simple as a gas can.  speaking of vents. I feel better already. Hahaha




The EPA or maybe the CPSC? (The safety people) really have no idea how to make something safer.   They just mandate stupidity.    I know the gas tanks you speak of and have yet to find one that works at all.     I've give retro and use a funnel when the can is full and use care when it is empty enough.


----------



## Foozer

And I have "Spark" [bad ground] Lots of Spark [bad ground] 20 degree  crank rotation 40K worth of Spark [bad ground] Gotta love that MSD CD blue white mini jacobs ladder Spark - - Did I mention problem was a Bad Ground . .

All in all, not a bad day . . .


----------



## Rndmann9

Busy weekend... Fixed two leaf blowers someone gave me had to clean the carb on one and rebuild carb on the other along with new fuel lines and cleaning the fuel tank.  Got my limit switches permanently mounted for x and y. And finished my moon light drafting.  Throw in a soccer game and visit by mother and grandmother in law....whooo!  Now maybe I can start to learn how to work the machine...oh and somewhat cleaned my shop...well at least I can see my bench again.  Now for the other 98%.   I love a good productive weekend.


----------



## Foozer

Company? Cousin Tim from Tenn came by, well ain't my cousin and ain't from Tenn - - Been ages since seen a Dodge 3/4 ton with a slant six, a slant six that was pucking oil. If the pass side motor mount comes loose from the block [which it did] the motor mount will rock on its pivot [which it did] As it rocks it hits the bottom of the fuel pump and of course cracks it open - Oil Oil Oil - To get Cousin Tim to 'Go Home', had to fix his truck for him.

Now your gizmo is going, what ya going to stress test it on?
I got brave and tried a flycutter - Can see how that thing can go very wrong, very quickly if not very careful.


----------



## Foozer

You've been quiet lately - Bride got you on the Honey Do List?


----------



## Blogwitch

Goodness me Foozer, a flycutter mounted into a drill chuck, and by the looks of it, with a rather fast feed!!!!

You are asking for the flycutter to be embedded in your forehead. 

Drill chucks are only just about secure when drilling downwards, to put any side loads on it is asking for the taper joint between chuck and it's spindle mount to let go and the chuck and flycutter is liable to be bouncing around your shop or yourself.

Please take care.

John


----------



## Foozer

Blogwitch said:


> Goodness me Foozer, a flycutter mounted into a drill chuck, and by the looks of it, with a rather fast feed!!!!
> 
> You are asking for the flycutter to be embedded in your forehead.
> John



Tis the Great Grandfather Henry Banton in me - the tendency to at least once throw caution to the wind.
A flycutter mounted into a drill chuck - From the advise by those who know, coupled with the less than desirable racket it makes [racket that means 'Duck for cover'] I can join the univocal and say - Nope  - Something going very wrong, very fast is something very well to be avoided . .  .

You made me chuckle - Mom still wonders how I have managed all these 64 years - i tell her, without me, she'd have no one to worry about . .


----------



## DiegoVV

Blogwitch said:


> Goodness me Foozer, a flycutter mounted into a drill chuck, and by the looks of it, with a rather fast feed!!!!
> 
> You are asking for the flycutter to be embedded in your forehead.
> 
> Drill chucks are only just about secure when drilling downwards, to put any side loads on it is asking for the taper joint between chuck and it's spindle mount to let go and the chuck and flycutter is liable to be bouncing around your shop or yourself.
> 
> Please take care.
> 
> John



I have to adhere to this advice. This is in the ABC of "what no to do with a milling machine". When machining, things can turn into a disaster in fractions of a second. And damaging your equipment is not the worst that can happen to you. If you are going to walk the CNC road, your tooling should be fail-proof, so using a drill chuck is not the best idea.

Going CNC means that you know almost everything about machining and that you have spent a good momey on apporpiate tooling. CNC is not just throwing some motors to the milling machine and connecting them to a PC. I don´t know any good CNC machinist that is not a good manual machinist.

Just my two cents


----------



## Rndmann9

Haven't been on in a while.  Didn't fall off the face of the earth,  just have been crazy buisy with work so haven't had any shop time.  Hope that changes soon because the weather is turning cool at the shop is at prime comfort levels. Careful with the flys. I have ruined many a parts from the head moving unexpectedly. If that drill has a morse taper i would use some collets.  Better grip and more concentric.


----------



## Foozer

There you are - The fly went to the bottom of the Sound - Only time the taper came loose, ages ago using a forstner bit on pine. Replaced the chuck with a Jacobs No. 36 [it has holding power] and pinned the taper to the shaft.
No rings, No watches, No long hair or sleeves - Don't use a tractor to tension barb wire - It's inevitable to get a little nip here or there - Justt try to keep it 'Little'

Ah the new toy to drive the bride insane - A 23 quart pressure cooker - I like Chili, big pots of Chili - the Pss-Pss-Pss of the steam release, the Bride not so much . . .


----------



## Foozer

Farther away from the grinding wheel my knuckles are, the better I like it . .So as to entertain myself - Won't know the functionality until it's done, any resemblance to what's in the book is - Well have to start somewhere - - 





 - - -


----------



## DiegoVV

Foozer said:


> There you are - The fly went to the bottom of the Sound - Only time the taper came loose, ages ago using a forstner bit on pine. Replaced the chuck with a Jacobs No. 36 [it has holding power] and pinned the taper to the shaft.
> No rings, No watches, No long hair or sleeves - Don't use a tractor to tension barb wire - It's inevitable to get a little nip here or there - Justt try to keep it 'Little'
> 
> Ah the new toy to drive the bride insane - A 23 quart pressure cooker - I like Chili, big pots of Chili - the Pss-Pss-Pss of the steam release, the Bride not so much . . .



Of course you are free of using your machinery in the way you want, but please, don´t confuse new machinists saying that. Every experienced guy will tell you, using a drill chuck for milling is not a good practice and can be dangerous. But if you prefer investing in steppers rather than in the appropiate equipment, it´s your decission.


----------



## Foozer

Am aware of the downside, I'm just a tinkerer, I tinker - Is not meant to be a mill - Just a tinkering exercise to learn some Arduino and stepper code - Best Practice - First run after a cam change, the thing that can harm me while final tuning is done is not present


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNaIvcCH9PU&feature=youtu.be[/ame]


The Fan . . .


----------



## Rndmann9

Man, I'm having withdrawals from my shop.   I've been so busy with work I haven't had time to do anything.  Doing a 15 story hospital and a college basketball arena right now, plenty for one person,  lol.  Might have to make an executive decision and forgo work this weekend and get my priorities straight again. Lol.  Love my job but there isn't enough hours in a week to do what I need to do.  Three 55+ hrs weeks in a row is starting to grow a little tiring. Kills my motivation because in my head - if I have time to work in the shop I have time that I should be getting ahead on my jobs. Best time of the year temp wise to be in the shop but it seems I'm in a similar situation every year.  I need to get my wife a new pressure cooker, hers has a temperamental seal that you have to beat on the edges to get it to seal up, just don't want to end up on some stupid watch list for buying a cooking pot.  Lol.  Got to finish my mill.....


----------



## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> . . .  just don't want to end up on some stupid watch list for buying a cooking pot.  Lol.  Got to finish my mill.....



I change the seal every couple years - - Pressure cooker scares the tinkles out of the Bride so naturally being the kind hearted soul that I am, just had to get a bigger better one - - - 

Today is Pumpkin Pie making day - - -


----------



## Rndmann9

Well I finally got to tool around in the shop some this past week.  Good news is I got the mill all moving in the right directions now.  I'm stumped trying to figure out tool length offsets with the software side.  It should be pulling lengths from my virtual tool library and compensating in the z. So far no Bueno. I made a test part that first faces the part with a 9/16 end mill then does a contour cut around the out side with a 1/4 then bores a hole through then mills a pocket.  Part is just complicated enough to run through a few more complicated cuts than facing.  Does everything but z after the tool change isn't adjusting...?  Guess I need to keep messing with it till I get it worked out.   Hoping to do it over the weekend but had to go out of town for a funeral ( wifes grandfather).  Once that's solved I have to write some code to adjust for backlash.  Not to make it perfect, just to smooth out the enormous amount built into every x2 mill.  I think it's something like .072 on z direction changes.  Frankly just happy to finally have everything going the direction and distance it's suppose to.  Baby steps.


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## Rndmann9

Day...I don't even know anymore.  Trying to figure out this whole post processor thing.  Main thing I'm stumped on is dynamic tool offsets.  I'm using a grbl.cps post processor but I'm having to modify it to do what I want and so far it's winning the battle.  The g code to make the machine do the offset is a simple g43.1.  I want it to pull the tool length that I gad to define in cam into the post and compensate for length when I do a tool change.  Simple ...no since I'm not up to speed with JavaScript it's a little painful.  When I run the code the line that calls the tool (T7 M6 G43.1) is giving an error on the GUI on that line so something isn't jiving with grbl.  I noticed that the modal wasn't defined in GRBL.cps so I am adding that in and seeing how it goes.  I'm not sure where to place the function in the code so just trying different things hoping something sticks.  It's inter-frustrating  maybe by the time I get it working like I want I'll be an "expert".   It runs my code just will not do the offset so I can make parts especially if I run each process individually requiring setting part zero for every tool change but that's too easy. I'm a glutton for punishment.  I want it to do it all.  I have some pics of progress and failures to post when I get them together.  If anyone is a post processor guru please chime in to this CNC neophyte


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> Day...I don't even know anymore.



Oh Boy - Ordered a grbl shield to play with - As I know zero about g-code, by the sound of it, tis a big bite of the apple coming - - -


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## Rndmann9

Well I'm your man if you have questions on the grbl since that's what I am using to drive my servos and run my gcode.   You should check out fusion hsm to generate your code.  Only reason I didn't is because I already have inventor and inventor hsm is an add on so wouldn't need to figure out yet another program.  They are pretty much the same thing on the cam (hsm) side. Mine is grbl v5.  I have been digging through the arduino code to see where I can modify it and or just seeing how it ticks.  Me being me am trying to do things a little unorthodox which means steep learning curve but learn more during the process.  I picked up a power supply for about 20 bucks off amazon for the grbl servo drivers.  The board itself runs from the arduino. I did make a filter shield that sandwiches between the Gshield and the arduino though just to make my limit switches less sensitive to noise.  I'm using an uno for the arduino since I have a couple of them.  My mega is used on something else and I have a few nanos but they are too small to use the Gshield on.   I used ugcs initially and it works out of the box with the Gshield making it all pretty much plug and play.  I eventually started using grbl controller bc I like the interface better.  I also mapped a game controller to it for a makeshift dongle where I got the pleasure of learning auto hot key which is kind of neat in its on right.  The java script I'm learning now is so I can modify and read the post processor for the Gcode which essentially just customizes the code output to play nice with grbl since some Gcode isn't supported by it...yet.  On G code...I didn't know any when I started this journey. Now it's fairly easy to see what is / or is supposed to be doing.  Tons of info on the net too.


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## Foozer

Can't be . . . Granddaughters birthday was the day before thanksgiving - She's 9, gave her an Etch-a-Sketch
HMM couple small steppers, control board with a nano and perhaps with a button push a 'Circle'

G00 X3.000 Y2.000 F5 
G03 X3.000 Y2.000 I-1.000 J0.000 
G01 X3.000 Y2.000
M30

Circle can't be that easy  - Can it?


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## Rndmann9

Ha.  You sure you don't have a camera in my house.  I was just messing with one of my kids the other day and told the other one....you know, I could make this thing draw by itself.   The codes simple.  I'm trying to figure out how the post processor tracks what step/tool it's on.  I need to make it ignore the first tool since it's a touch off and is at zero already then either subtract or add the tool.bodylength from the other depending on if it's shorter or longer than the original tool.  Simple - if I can figure out how to make it know one tool from the other.  If it number d them it would be a piece of cake.  I'm still poring over the exported parameters trying to find something to use as a marker.  I modified the code so it does the offset  but now it does it on the first tool too so it's the length of the tool too high at the start and the next is shorter so it's way too high at that point.   I'm getting there though.


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> ...you know, I could make this thing draw by itself.   The codes simple.



"The codes simple" - Famous last words - -  Lets see some 99 or so G series codes and I'm on G00, G01, G02 + G03 X-Y only - After my brain explodes I'll step into Z axis

Took me long enough to find where and what to change to compensate for the 2:1 gear reduction

#define DEFAULT_X_STEPS_PER_MM (STEPS_PER_REV*MICROSTEPS/MM_PER_REV)

  #define DEFAULT_Y_STEPS_PER_MM ((STEPS_PER_REV*2)*MICROSTEPS/MM_PER_REV)  @2:1 for y

I think - - - Lets see, by time spring comes around . . . Who am I kidding  - is not easy stuff . . . I better get a couple more Etch-a-Sketches  - One or more will be given over to destructive testing


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## Rndmann9

I made an excel sheet to keep up with all the "maf". That way I can make mods to my settings and not forget what or where I am. Once I get things moving and adjusting like I want I'm going to jump back into that part to see how fast and or smooth I can make it go.  Right now I have things moving nice and slow.   Got a new toy yesterday to sink money into.  Standard m4 looks kinda cute next to it.


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> Got a new toy yesterday to sink money into.




Toys - - Last year decided to take up reloading. Have an old Krag 30-40 like to shoot once in a while and some -06 tracer rounds. As she's an old girl kept the load 'bout 10% under what the data chart called for.  Have a few others . . 






Top girl is my favorite - Had it since I was 10 - - Mossberg 142M - She'll put 3 in the same hole at 100ft. Bottom looks like the Ruger 10-22, She's a Rugar .44 mag Deer Slayer and she kicks like a mule . . .

For show and tell the black powder pistol. She's fun to make noise with. Had to hand over the AR, to easy to convert them over to Rock-n-Roll and the locals had no sense of humor - - 

Now back to beating my head against the wall - - Dug up the old laptop to use - it's a windows box and I like Ubuntu, buuut seems most software is windows based and as it is now the odds of breaking something is higher, don't want to break my goto computor . . Windows BLAH - argues with Arduino - not in sync -
Check all the drivers - you know the drill . .

I*f all else fails - - Got a stump out back and some tracer rounds - -


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## Rndmann9

The 44 is pretty awesome.  I have a 10/22 just like it that I've had since I was a kid.  I like rugers I have 5 of them. 22,380,9,45, ( built like tanks)and the new one is their new precision rifle in 308.  AR is a lowly Colt. Lol. Check the brate. It's pretty high for the g shield.  Last time one of my boards did that I had to reflash it with another board.  Easy enough but would rather not have to.  Been too distracted by everything else to do any reloading lately but it's cooling down and it's time to refill this summers brass...


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## Foozer

'membering why I don't like windows - Way to much time spent trying to get XP and the Arduino IDE to cooperate. Got a buddy runs a little computer shop - Nice big New York Cheese Cake bribe to go with 'Here, I'm too dumb to fix it, see what you can do . . . '

Couple more toys - Top one single shot 22 kids rifle - Pop got it for me when I was 8, we didn't have much back then but he scrapped it up to have the lyman peep sights put on it. 10-22 looks just like the .44 - High Standard Sport King. an H&R Sportsman [22 cal] -Always leave one chamber empty for the hammer to rest on and my carry toy - Walther PPK - Slide has nicked the top of my hand more than once.





Think I'll go do something useful today, Long as the bride is not around - take the car out, see how the new cam is and smoke the tires a bit . . .


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## Rndmann9

Gees not sure when I'm going to see my shop again.  Got a week off for Christmas then work is going to be nuts for a while.  I'm right there from finishing this little exercise too.   Might be my saving grace to get me away from my computer and not going crazy.  I hate doing hospitals, they are one complicated beast.  Well I'll get some hot lead therapy in before the craziness at least.  Got the new one a nice set of glasses finally.


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## Foozer

Been tinkering with Arduino,  NES game pad, 20x4 LCD, NEMA 17 stepper and a 3" rotary table using CFellows bit of code - -

laststep  = round(stepsDiv * lastPosition);
nextstep  = round(stepsDiv * currentPosition);
divSteps    = abs(nextstep - laststep);

In a different wrapper - Divisions and Degrees - - 

Making the adapter to mount the stepper to the little table has been a case of "Really?" Had this hunk of 2 1/4 round . . .
Lets see - one each AA109 lathe, bore a hole 3" inches deep?
Cut away all that is not needed on the outside?

Subtractive Process Defined - More of the stock goes to the trash bin than is left . . . But its Fun - -

Week or so - should be done - - Have no idea what I'll do with it - Just seemed like something to do - Run a Rotary using a NES Game pad . . .
Robert


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## Foozer

Had to quasi-assembly and check it out - And, well it works - Have 2 menu choices, one for divisions, one for degrees - Running it through its paces and so far seems not to skip a beat.  NES Controllers are dangerous, can get way to many button choices . . .
#define   btn_A         254   //  Select Divisions
#define   btn_B         253   //  Select Degrees
#define   btn_Start     247   //  Enable Stepper
#define   btn_Select    251   //  Disable Stepper
#define   btn_Up        239   //  Not used
#define   btn_Down      223   //  Not Used
#define   btn_Left      191   //  Jog Forward One Division (CW)
#define   btn_Right     127   //  Jog Back One Division (CCW)
#define   btn_A_Up      238   //  Increase Divisions (also Disables Stepper)
#define   btn_A_Down    222   //  Decrease Divisions (also Disables Stepper)
#define   btn_A_Right   126   //  Future use - Increase Divisions Step Rate
#define   btn_A_Left    190   //  Future Use - Decrease Divisions Step Rate
#define   btn_B_Up      237   //  Increase Degrees by One Degree (also Disables Stepper)
#define   btn_B_Down    221   //  Decrease Degrees by One Degree (also Disables Stepper)
#define   btn_B_Right   125   //  Future Use - Increase Degrees Step Rate
#define   btn_B_Left    189   //  Future Use - Decrease Degrees Step Rate
#define   btn_Menu      243   //  Return to main menu

Still can't get the LCD screen to show in pic - - -
Now to find a little project box and package it up
What I'll do with it? Haven't a clue . . .


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## Rndmann9

I've got a little three inch rotary table I was think of doing something with eventually.  It's so small it's hard to mount anything to it.  I made an adaptor that fits in the t slot so I could bolt things down to it.  Haven't had time to do any work in my shop other than looking for tools my 6 year old hides from me.  Lol.  Been so busy with work and fixing things for friends (tvs and washing machines lately). Mostly work.   I need to just slate a weekend to finish some stuff but hard to get motivated after a long week of the grind.  Last weekend I got a little reloading done but that's about it.  Love the new rifle.  She is quite accurate. Wife likes it so I Guess she can stay.  Lol.  Annoyed because I have one little coding thing to fix on the mill but haven't had time.  Just kicking the can....


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## Foozer

Yup, the 3" is, ah, it is what it is. When I started to wonder about having the two Arduino's (x-y and rotary) talk to each other, I stuck it on a shelf and went back to putting with the car. Still have a couple of things that worked before I took it apart that   - - - All good as long as I get er done by spring.


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## rodw

Foozer said:


> When I started to wonder about having the two Arduino's (x-y and rotary) talk to each other, I stuck it on a shelf and went back to putting with the car.



Foozer, Google "Xbee Shield" and have fun. Don't blame me now if your car is not ready in time......


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## Foozer

rodw said:


> Foozer, Google "Xbee Shield" and have fun. Don't blame me now if your car is not ready in time......





You peeked - the driver shield has the slot for XBee - 





Car, Car, Car - take drive to the Crazy Horse thing, go 'Yup big hunk of rock', then drive home . . .


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## Rndmann9

I'm baaaack!   Finally slowed down at work a bit. Spent the last two days cleaning my shop.  It was a disaster. Felt like a contestant of American ninja trying to get to anything!  Now I need to figure out where I left off.  .....to the bat cave.


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## Rndmann9

Here is the only machining I've done in a while. A rocket to entertain me and the kids a while back.


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## Foozer

Beginning to think the wolves got ya . . . When work interferes with shop time, it's time to find new work . . . Unless of course when 'She Who Must Be Obeyed' wants something, that something must be done . . .Yard Art . . .


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## Rndmann9

Ha.  I wish.  Na I like my job.  It just comes and goes in spurts as far as busyness.  A hospital is a complex beast when it comes to design.   I have to get my mill working again.  My game controller program got screwed up so I have to rewrite it.  Might be this weekends project.


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## Rndmann9

Welp. Been a while.  Got the controller program rewrote and the mill working but had binding on the x axis so naturally decided to switch it to a ball screw too.


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## Rndmann9

Ball scews are NOT fun to machine.  Super hard metal.  The first one I ordered wasn&#8217;t the right size so I decided to use it and upgrade the z since that one had too much backlash to. Should have it finished tomorrow. Here is some wood I milled to test the x. And you can see the backlash issue with the z. Also some picks of the current state.  I should have taken more pics but I was &#8220;in the zone&#8221; I


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## Rndmann9

That&#8217;s the old motor position so don&#8217;t get confused by it&#8217;s weird placement. Lol


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## Foozer

Rndmann9 said:


> Ball sc[r]ews are NOT fun to machine.  Super hard metal.



Now you tell me. Doing a goofy winter project with longer than required ball screws. If I hose em up there is always the acme with derlin nuts route . . .
Robert


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## Rndmann9

They are just case hardened.  Once you get through that armor they arnt too bad.  Scratching my head trying to figure out how I want to remount the stepper???


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## Rndmann9

Ok time to do some testing tweaking and probably shimming.


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## Rndmann9

It is worth noting, it's really hard to work on your mill without your mill.  Makes me wish I had two...   One day...


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## Rndmann9

Couple more pics.  Seems to be functioning pretty good.  Much better than before.


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## Foozer

Curious as to what weight the Z-Stepper has to move and is the Z counter balanced.
Robert


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## Blogwitch

It looks like you are taking the route most other people do for the Z axis.

I don't know if you realise that you are taking a large risk.

Because the stepper is only on one side of the head, that will try to cant over the head as it moves up and down, also called crabbing, which will eventually lead to uneaven wear on your Z axis slides and may even sieze up or knock your cutter off line..

The easiest way to cure this is to have a stepper either side running in parallel, so the head has equal pressure on either side.

I brought this problem up a while ago but my own illness and the death of a great friend caused me to abandon the project some time ago.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=24086

If you go to the last post in that link, you will find a link to one of the last articles John S did before he passed away, about the build we were working on together.

John


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## Rndmann9

Yeah I thought about that.  Mainly was trying to use the material I already had mainly the belts.  That and somewhere to mount it.  When I first made it I only changed the y axis to a ball screw.  Then changed the x.  Since I had a 12mm instead of a 16mm ball screw that was ordered inadvertently went ahead and winged it for the z.  These mills aren't the stiffest things anyways so I don't ever expect to get great precision.   I'd be somewhat satisfied with +~- .005.  I plan to get a much bigger mill in the near future ( kinda want to move first so I only move it once). It's more to learn CNC on. the whole project was sort of an impulse project...something to do with some challenge from scratch and was fun.  Now I'm giving my lathe dirty looks and temped to jump on it.


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## Rndmann9

I got tired of the backlash with no way to compensate for it which drove me to change it again.  Here is the first version.


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## Rndmann9

I noticed some loose the gas strut or torsion spring. I elected to keep the strut to maybe lesson that effect.  I figured at worse the gib will wear unevenly but I plan to replace those with brass as soon as I get some stock that's the right size.  The x still has some sticky spots due to the gib.  I actually started this in 2016 but finally got motivated and the time to fix it


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## Rndmann9

I actually toyed with mounting it centered but decided the extra trouble wouldn&#8217;t be justifiable. I also would need another mill.  Just didn&#8217;t have much space to make it happen.  All the screws are 16mm but the z.  I have a spare 16mm if this one causes trouble.  So far the 12 seems to be doing ok.


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## Rndmann9

Foozer said:


> Curious as to what weight the Z-Stepper has to move and is the Z counter balanced.
> Robert



Its prob 20~25lbs. Gas strut helps some. Motor muscles the rest.


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