# Milling Machines



## Tinkerer58 (Jun 29, 2013)

Hi all,
Been a while since I been on, I'm currently looking at replacing my RF25 round column mill. I'm looking at a MH28V variable DC motor, Dove tail column,1.1Kw motor, drill capacity 28mm, MT3, 90 deg swivel head Variable speed 100-2,500 rpm, table 730 x 214mm. Complete with stand and coolant at about AU$2,800.00

Has anyone had any experience with this unit, or any advise, would like to know your thoughts before I spend my hard earned. Unit seems quite solid at 200Kg.
Taken me a lot of talking over 6 months to get the Mrs to agree to let me have another new toy as over the last 6 months I have bought a surface grinder, wood lathe, band saw, drop saw, and other incidentals. LOL


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## n4zou (Jun 29, 2013)

Buy a Bridgeport and be done with upgrades.


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## Dave Sohlstrom (Jun 29, 2013)

Get a R8 spindle not MT

Dave


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## Sshire (Jun 29, 2013)

Agree, agree, agree on the R8. 

N4zou
Not to be confrontational, since I just replaced my Bf20 mill with a beautiful 1969 Bridgeport,  BUT...
More information is needed before the "Buy a Bridgeport" rubber stamp comes down. 
1. How much space is available?
2. What power is available? 
3. What is the availability of used machinery in the poster's area?


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## rodw (Jun 29, 2013)

Have you of a link to where you are buying it from?


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## Tinkerer58 (Jun 29, 2013)

http://www.vynckier.biz/en/handtools/drilling-milling-machines/drilling-milling-machines/mh28v 

I have quite a bit of room but only 240V supply, and already have tooling for MT3, that's why I was thinking MT3, don't want to buy new tooling R8 is available. Also have to consider machine weight as I'm not built like a gorilla if it needs moving LOL.
I have been told by someone that they have made 5mm cuts in their machine using 10mm cutter and had good results. 
Bridgeports are not cheap even secondhand and get snapped up pretty quickly.


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## jwcnc1911 (Jun 29, 2013)

I run  a 6" inserted facemill on my late 60's Bridgeport.  You can buy a collet set from enco for about $60usd.  I've had everything from tiny little table mills to a 60" Gorton manual machine running 40mm B&S collets.  The Bridgeport will most likely always be big enough for the average home user but it will rarely be to small or lack the rigidity.


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## aarggh (Jun 29, 2013)

Firstly, "buy a bridgeport" isn't an option in most of Australia, as we simply DON'T have the availability you Yanks do. Generally the only option we have is we can buy inferior equipment for more than in the States, or even the UK. The main stuff we can get here is either top end industrial like King Rich, etc, or cheaper Chinese imports.

Having said that, I have the slightly smaller mill than the Optimum your looking at, and I can tell you they are just superbly built! Very nicely engineered and well made. My BF16 performs beautifully, and is amazingly powerful and reliable. Cost me $1000 at the time, but I don't regret it one bit. In fact I'm considering selling my large mill (maybe upgrading), but I'd never sell the BF16.

Mine is MT, and to be honest, I don't see the big deal with it compared to R8. If it was NT30 or 40 that would be great and a completely different argument, but given the choice, I know we can get MT stuff from China at very good prices, but I have noticed we don't get the range/price the same in R8 generally.

cheers, Ian


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## jwcnc1911 (Jun 29, 2013)

Pretty much all of the Chinese suppliers also make or distribute a Bridgeport clone... like the ones at Grizzly or the Supra, Kent and so on.

Having said that, your absolutely right "get a Bridgeport" is not always the answer.  If it's not in the market then you can't buy it!  I thought you guys in OZ had all of those older Gorton or Kasuga mills.  Try searching for those.  Both known for making behemoths.


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## Tinkerer58 (Jun 30, 2013)

I was also looking at this Chester but the machine is about 1,000Km from me which is a long way to drive to evaluate it and then to freight it or transport it.
So that is not an option. If there was one around where I'm located I'd give it serious thought. 
The other thought was that I have a large Chinese lathe that I imported myself and have been very happy with it, well built but obviously had to make a number of adjustments but that is the nature of Chinese built machinery. If your prepared to spend some time pulling things apart and making proper adjustments it well worth the $4,000.00 dollars I saved importing it direct rather than buying from local importer. I was actually thinking of doing the same again with the mill but today there is not a big saving to be had as prices from China have increased considerably over the last 4 years. Buying local will at least give me warranty and the price difference is about $500.00, if it was half the price I would do it again.
Regarding MT spindles I have never really had an issue with them and tooling is well priced here in Oz, as you all know buying the machine is the cheap part of our hobby, I bet if you guys added up the costs of your tooling and accessories for any of your machines and then told your wife how much you've spent over the years I think we might all be standing in front of a Judge in the divorce Court LOL.

Just imagine " we could have gone overseas for 3 or 4 holidays, and you spent it all on junk!!!" You think you got it bad now because she remembers something you said to her 15 years ago, wait till she finds out how much money you got tucked away in your shed LOL.


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## aarggh (Jun 30, 2013)

They just aren't around, even when a factory finally let's go a 15 year old base model King Rich (like the entry level KR-V2000) , at auction they get $5000 on average. That's when they come up that is. A good bargain mill the size of a Bridgeport is very far and few between. The H&F HM50/HM52's are the closest we can get, but I don't believe they are as good, but still cost around $5000 without shipping. Which could be anywhere from $300-$500.

This Eumega is a good example of a decent (I'm assuming it's decent!) machine that occasionally becomes available in OZ, this machine comes with no guarantee it will even power on, or that it is complete, but still went for $3000, plus 15% commission, plus loading and delivery, and then 10% GST on top of all that!

http://www.graysonline.com/lot.aspx?lotNumber=0025-3000560

I bought my mill new from a local supplier, and it's clear it came out of the same factory as the H&F ones, although it differs very slightly as it's more capable and beefier, but it still cost me over $5000. I'd have loved a good Bridgeport, but I'm now looking at whether it's worth selling mine ( and some other bits of gear) and using the money towards a King Rich, or a Eumega. Although these are considered "Light Duty" machines for occasional industrial or home use, they are still $10,000 to $15,000!

cheers, Ian


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## aarggh (Jun 30, 2013)

What area are you in Tink?


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## Tinkerer58 (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm in Sydney, when I bought my lathe H&F wanted near $7,000, I got mine direct out of China through work Because we already import bearing etc from there and got the same machine with stand, coolant, and DRO into my shed for $2,700. Then earlier this year I contacted one of our Chinese suppliers and asked for a quick change tool post complete with 4 tool holders and he sent me complete set free, wish he could send me a free mill LOL.
H&F only do the little Siege in the DC mills, Titan Machinery do the TM20V and the HM28V I'm looking at is out of Melb. same machine next size up.
I suppose I could look at a HM45 which has AC motor but max speed is too low, just wondering what people's thoughts are on the DC machines, and I don't ever want a geared head machine using plastic gears. Using plastic on any machine to me spells "JUNK".

Hey "aarggh" there is a Eumega on Ebay for $2,000, too big for me though. It's in Melb 3 days to go and no bids. Even if freight is $600-800 that would still be a good price from the look of it.


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## aarggh (Jun 30, 2013)

I just did a search on Ebay and nothing comes up for Eumega, even "turret mill" only gives two milling books in OZ? What was the auction number that you saw, I can't afford it now anyway but would be keen to have a look. Although logistically until I decide if I am selling my current mill, I definitely don't have room for another!

The Titan machinery ones are very nice units, that was one of the other models I was looking at originally, but ended up deciding on a BF46 but when I checked them out I got talked into a much bigger beastie for not a huge amount more!

Edit: Found the machine, it's one of the largest turret mills Eumega do, and from memory when I was talking to the guy at NMW a month or so back, they are around $15,000-$20,000, so $2000 is a great deal. I dunno about the 100 hours use though, looks like it's seen some hard times. But even so, it's a good deal. It doesn't say but being 5HP it will be 3 phase most likely, which is a pain. Apart from the sheer size and weight anyway! Something like the Eumega MDV-2 or MDV-3, or the King Rich V2000 are what I'm drooling over. 

cheers, Ian


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## Tinkerer58 (Jun 30, 2013)

Yeah she's a big mother but price is keen. I was also looking at the MM50 on Ebay for $3450.00 but at 1 ton would be a pain to move and get setup. Big machines means big heavy accessories. 
 In regards to 3 phase I got a Ruberg surface grinder about 6 months ago and had to buy a Inverter to run it of 240V, haven't hooked it up yet, just doing some refurb on it before I run it.


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## aarggh (Jun 30, 2013)

My mill's almost the same as the MM50, but a little larger table and slightly heavier. You'd be surprised how maneuverable it is with some leverage and skates. Going near 1500kgs is getting just too heavy though in my book. A surface grinder would be very handy!

cheers, Ian


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## rodw (Jun 30, 2013)

Glad you guys refuted the buy a Bridgeport argument. Really, we are on the other side of the works, our population is 10% of the US scattered over a similar area and we have closer ties to Europe and Asia. We simply don't have the option to buy second hand and there is not much US equipment in the country anyway. I've recently bought a couple of bits of second hand tooling and there always seems to be something missing or a fault not disclosed. I don't think I will do this again.

In reality, there is only one dealer in the country worth dealing with and good or bad, that is Hare and Forbes. I live near them and they really have given good service to me. I looked hard at the Titan but decided to buy local and went with a Seig SX3 and so far have not been disappointed with service from H&F who are 10 minutes from home. To me, that and the service I get from them is worth the premium paid. I will admit though I have not bought stuff in the market segment you guys are looking at.


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## Tinkerer58 (Jul 1, 2013)

I have to agree with you there RodW, I think I'd rather be working on a nice project and creating something than spending all my valueable workshop time fixing someone elses' problems. Having said that though I have bought some second hand items after carefull evaluation and save mega $$$, but they have all needed some work. If I would have had to buy them new I would never have been able to justify the outlay. I think it all boils down to how much time and work you have to invest in the re-work if it's going to be a worthwhile investment. I still haven't made up my mind and keep getting side tracked on what to buy LOL. Still considering the DC motor unit, as well as a HM48 and and MM50 turret mill. the only thing about the turret mill is the weight and moving it being 900Kg+ where as the HM48 is about 400Kg. I just want to get the best bang for my buck, God knows how hard we have to work for it and I aint just going to throw it at any old machine. I wanna make sure that what ever I buy I'll be content that I made the right choice. It's like being a kid in a toy shop that can't make up his mind what he wants LOL. It's that us bloke never really grow up, it's only our toys that get bigger LOL.


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## aarggh (Jul 1, 2013)

With my mill the thing that trumped it for me was the longitudinal travel. My mill is similar to the MM50, and the travel was better than the smaller mills I was looking at. So far as weight goes, it's not that much more difficult to maneuver 900kgs as it is 400kgs. So I wouldn't let that be the limiting factor, unless you plan on moving it around occasionally, but why would you want to do that anyway? The mill i'm looking at now is around 1200kgs, compared to my 900kgs mill!

cheers, Ian


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## rodw (Jul 2, 2013)

Tinkerer58 said:


> I have to agree with you there RodW, I think I'd rather be working on a nice project and creating something than spending all my valueable workshop time fixing someone elses' problems.



Hmm, at the moment I am fixing problems on new stuff so it must be following me. I bought a DRO kit out of Hong Kong that is meant to have all of the hardware to mount to my Seig SX3 mill and a few mounting bits were left out of the box which has slowed me down a bit. Anyway, so far so good. It has been good for a noob to have a start on this project. The next one will be easy!


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## Tinkerer58 (Jul 3, 2013)

I have made a decision and ordered the HM48 with powered X and Z stand, coolant, got a good deal and I'm happy with what I got. I already have the DRO scales and they will do the job fine, just want to get a remote read out for it. After weighing it all up I couldn't justify another $800 for new DRO with scales when $150 bucks give me the remote display as I have all the other bits brand new that I never got to put on my current RF25.


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## Tinkerer58 (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey Rod, when I bought my lathe from China with the DRO I had all sorts of problems, every mm of movement registered 5mm on the DRO took me 4 days to translate the Chinglish in the manual LOL :wall:


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## rodw (Jul 3, 2013)

I had to have a peek at your new machine, it looks pretty awesome.



Tinkerer58 said:


> Hey Rod, when I bought my lathe from China with the DRO I had all sorts of problems, every mm of movement registered 5mm on the DRO took me 4 days to translate the Chinglish in the manual LOL :wall:



The DRO is quite nice I think and the manual was surprisingly well done at 68 pages. My DRO was configured the same way but I knew exactly what the problem was. It has 1 micron scales when most are 5 micron. I went and grabbed the manual and changed the setup in a couple of minutes! The hardware installation manual on the other hand must have been written by the same author who wrote yours...

Anyway, I finished the Y axis tonight (2 down, 1 to go) but I dropped a grub screw that is used to square up the Y scale which I could not find. I was at the bolt shop, I got M4's not M5's so I won't be able to square it up tonight.

The X axis should be easy so hopefully I will have it done by the weekend.


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## Tinkerer58 (Jul 3, 2013)

don't you hate that, been there many times so I always have a nice strong magnet at hand that I place near working area when working with small screws and things so if it drops, 90% of the time the magnet catches it. A trick I learnt from an old timer when I did my time with Phillips training as an electronics engineer.


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## rodw (Jul 5, 2013)

Tinkerer58 said:


> don't you hate that, been there many times so I always have a nice strong magnet at hand that I place near working area when working with small screws and things so if it drops, 90% of the time the magnet catches it. A trick I learnt from an old timer when I did my time with Phillips training as an electronics engineer.



Sounds line it is worth considering. I picked up another few grubscrews the right size and finally got the X sensor mounted on the saddle at 9:30 last night. At the moment I have too many other things competing for time and some of them have not been fun things!


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## jwcnc1911 (Jul 5, 2013)

Tinkerer58 said:


> don't you hate that, been there many times so I always have a nice strong magnet at hand that I place near working area when working with small screws and things so if it drops, 90% of the time the magnet catches it. A trick I learnt from an old timer when I did my time with Phillips training as an electronics engineer.



That's funny, me too.  I actually have a variety of magnets stuck to all of my machines.  On my mills I have a deadblow hammer, drawbar wrench, small and large brushes for sweeping chips away from vise, shaviv deburr tool, 1/2in carbide countersink in a tap handle, can of tap magic and a bottle of lay out dye.  And a shop vac close by.

The magnets probably see more use than anything else.  I also use them to grab chips out of pockets so I don't blow it all over with my air gun.


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