# Holding an end mill in the chuck, good or bad idea?



## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

Hi all,

Just a quick question about holding end mills. I was looking to buy an end mill and angleplate, plus associated clamps ECT for me to be able to mill on the lathe. 

There's something in my head that's telling me I read that holding an end mill in a 3 or 4 jaw chuck is a bad idea.

I don't have the money to spend on an MT1 collet set for my lathe, I was wondering if the above method is a no go, could a steel round be drilled and cut with 3 or 4 slits, then placed back into the lathe and bored out to the same dimentions as the end mill shaft, then when tightening the end mill will be held securely on its whole circumfrence. Plus it should be accurately on the centerline too. And run square to the crosslide

Any other ideas for a collet holder for little money or a work around appreciated


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## DJP (Jan 25, 2018)

I tried this approach and it doesn't work well. The cross slide is not rigid enough for milling, at least, in my case when adding and X-Y vice to the tool holder. 

Better to save your money and buy a mini mill to start the learning process. Eventually you will ned up with a J head Bridgeport but it takes time.

My thoughts for your consideration.


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## werowance (Jan 25, 2018)

I have done it on my lathe with no problem.  but keep in mind that the 3 jaw self centering is not dead on so the end mill will wobble a little so you are not using all the cutting teeth on the mill,  and that might be important if you are using an endmill that is almost the same size as what you are trying to cut,  might cause the cut to be a little wider than you expected.

I have a mill lathe combo machine but I prefer to use the mill in the 3 jaw on the lathe portion over using the milling feature of my combo.  its just easier for some things than taking off my compound and putting on the mill vice.    man I wish I had just got a lathe and a separate mill.


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## goldstar31 (Jan 25, 2018)

There's a lot of good model engineers who never needed a milling machine and in my particular situation, I would lose  more friends, neighbours and reduce value of my home by having a 'Bridgeport'.

So let's start again and I realize the difficulties which arise from having a little early Myford ML and not much else.
Of course, having to accept a Number ONE Morse taper in the tailstock and the spindle sort of makes things difficult-- but not impossible.

In your circumstances, I would mill in what was always the classic way and use what the lathe always came with, that is the faceplate or what Martin Cleeve used and that was a three position milling cutter using either square or round his tool bits.
The odds of a milling cutter working its way out of a three jaw chuck- without a holding ar of some sort is frighteningly high.

As for a vertical slide, there is almost always the need to have a vice to go with it. When push comes to shove, a vertical slide is only a topslide turned through an angle of 90 degrees(or as I mentor, the 4th part of a circle)

Failing that, you can always settle for a strap and a set of blocks. Again, the classic and much loved 'block of metal t'wer that size' and peppered with a variety of holes, tapped threads and whatever was what most of the ACTUAL  model designers adopted.

No body had a milling machine until perhaps 1974. Like 'Ned' Westbury and Prof Dennis Chaddock did-- I made mine.

Jon, I see an e-mail from you coming through but for others as well, that is my view

Cheers

N


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## ShopShoe (Jan 25, 2018)

I don't think using the chuck is a good idea, for the reasons already mentioned.

I did milling on my lathe before I got a mill.

You do not need a collet SET. Find out what end mills you need and find out what shank size will serve you, then get one MT collet in that size to get started (or a couple sizes.) You can make a draw bar.

Of course, you will soon decide that you need a mill. We are lucky today that we have many options for milling machines. In the early days of model engineering, the lathe was THE machine and used for most of the work.

--ShopShoe


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

Yes I understand how it could walk out of the chuck jaws, my thought was to make a sleeve in the 3 jaw bored to fit the dia of the end mill. With 2 slits nearly all the way through, and a 3rd that's cut the whole way through. This would then eliminate run out and also provide a much better support for the shaft of the end mill.


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## werowance (Jan 25, 2018)

now that's an idea,  except you would have to make sure you had the homemade collet indexed properly each time you used it so it would be nearly dead center.  ie mark where the jaws of the 3 jaw have to be each time.

now I have not had an end mill ever walk out of my 3 jaw chuck,  it holds it very well.  but I first realized the not on center thing when trying to mill a 12 mm slot in something, came out about 13 mm after just one pass,  I scratched my head then realized why.  now days I just use an er32 chuck when I need to be really carefull,  else I just hog away with one in the 3jaw.
I also have a new 3 jaw that's not so out of center as well so that helps me.


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

The problem with it is as soon as the sleeve is removed from the jaws it's no longer on center line, as you say it would have to be indexed exactly the same every time. The sleeve is a one time use, but could be bored again, for a larger dia mill.


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## fcheslop (Jan 25, 2018)

Dont forget if youre just facing a part Then a flycutter bolted onto the faceplate and the job bolted down to the cross slide would do or mount the job to the face plate and skim it
I made a simple fly cutter from a bit of 1 inch dia bar the cutter sticks out of one face and held with a grub screw tuther ends threaded about 3/8 something or other it doeasnt matter and a bolt and washer to fix it to the faceplate nowt fancy but its worked for the last 40 years


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## Charles Lamont (Jan 25, 2018)

JCSteam said:


> The problem with it is as soon as the sleeve is removed from the jaws it's no longer on center line, as you say it would have to be indexed exactly the same every time. The sleeve is a one time use, but could be bored again, for a larger dia mill.



Or you could use the 4-jaw chuck. In practice I found a good 3-jaw adequate for most jobs if I kept a sharp eye out for any tendency of the cutter to walk out. After all, you cannot take heavy cuts with a vertical slide, which was all I had for forty years.

Despite having a milling machine now, I still occasionally mill in the lathe, but normally hold the cutter in an ER32 collet chuck (which is a backplate type, for greater rigidity than a 2MT taper mounting).

On the milling machine, for light cuts, on soft material, with a small cutter, if the drill chuck is mounted, I sometimes cheat and don't bother to change it. This is much more risky in the lathe as there is no drawbar to hold the chuck in place.


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## goldstar31 (Jan 25, 2018)

Of course, one can cheat( or save) and use a drill an end mill

And for a bit more 'cheating' and this somewhat ignored reply  about using a wood router, you can use the same 43mm collar on the lathe boring table to utilise a hand power drill - so long as it also has the 43mm collar.

Suddenly, your old lathe can do more tricks-- which us oldies have done-- for time immoral  or since Pontius was a Pilate.

Old Norm


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

Hi Frazer, I was thinking along the lines of milling slots, however I do have a flycutter, or that's what I assume it is, round metal lump that is screw fitting to fit straight onto the spindle. Though it has six round "bits" in it that are held in place by bolts around it's circumfrence. One of the "bits" has snapped in half but when they are all inserted it looks much like an indexable flycutter, the bits been sharpened to around a 60° angle.


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

Norm I'm afraid I didn't understand the router idea. 
I know with a flycutter, end mill, and clamp set plus an angle plate the lathe becomes a lot more versatile and goes from just turning round bits, to skimming flat surfaces, making dovetails, and a whole host of tooling.


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## goldstar31 (Jan 25, 2018)

JCSteam said:


> Norm I'm afraid I didn't understand the router idea.
> I know with a flycutter, end mill, and clamp set plus an angle plate the lathe becomes a lot more versatile and goes from just turning round bits, to skimming flat surfaces, making dovetails, and a whole host of tooling.



Jon

With a router, you simply remove the stuff around the motor 'cartridge' and keep the collets to hold a variety of things. All very useful and easily returned to nibbling wood or even aluminum. To hold the beastie onto a saddle, one can held down with a clamp of sorts with a clamping ring of 43mm. Could be wood or all.

When you get tired of your new variation on a theme, you can swop it over and put a drill in and depending on your mood and whatever is held in the chuck, do drilling, slotting or a myriad of other things and at any angle.I have my old Bosch but several more recent oddities to enhance the King of All Tools.

Possibly, the trick is to learn to think whatYOU can do rather than read all about it.

Cheers

N


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## fcheslop (Jan 25, 2018)

The problem or at least for me is when using a multi toothed cutter all the inserts have to be set very accurately or you end up with the cut been done by one tip
My thoughts are KISS and been lazy just use one tip just cannot be bothered over sophistication for the sake of it
The little bobbin type flycutter I made does the job and still has the re purposed bit of center drill in it. Yep cheap skate rules me and money have always been strangers   so anything that can do the job for nowt is a winner
I made the Clayton lathe only with a vertical slide yep its not the most rigid but gently gently and you get it done 
Before I knew better I used to simply grip the milling cutter in the lathes chuck and never had a problem although this was way before the elf and safety brigade its youre decision
Yes a mill is nice but you know I see loads of fancy kit in shops here and other places and do the majority of them produce anything better??????????? 
I will leave that to you


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## BaronJ (Jan 25, 2018)

Hi JCSteam,

You are right, I agree that holding an end mill, or a slot drill for that matter in the lathe chuck is a bad idea.
However as has been said milling with the lathe has been done, very successfully for years.  I have done this in the past and I admit that it is quite a steep learning curve to become proficient at it.

Note that fly cutting has been mentioned here, and that should be a clue.  Using a single point to cut grooves, slots or even a dovetail works well and can produce very accurate work !  True you can't hog out material like you can on a mill, but slowly and carefully will get you there in the end.

Some where kicking about in my workshop is a dovetail slide that I made quite a few years ago, using the Myford and single point tool bits held in the four jaw.  If I can lay my hands on it I will take some pictures and post them.


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

Yeah that's my concern also, and getting them all facing the correct way for cutting. They are all numbered corresponding to the individual holes, as they are all different lengths. I assume this was set up with blanks and ground on the lathe, or something with a spindle thread and motor, so they were all exact. 

At least I've had it confirmed that there is a risk, and elf and safety is all about managing those risks, (if you look into it properly). For example a guard invade it comes loose. Though I think a sleeve would be a better option than just clamped into the jaws. 

Thanks as always for everyone's help on this&#55357;&#56832;


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## goldstar31 (Jan 25, 2018)

If I recall, Baron has one of these three position home made milling cutters.. Pelmanism you know?

However my thoughts turned back to Number 1 Morse tapers and whilst I have a set of blanks-possibly ArcEuroTrade, they don't seem to be listed now. Mine went into a Brookes t&c which I made in a fit- of something.
However, a hole made tailstock taper turning device is available from Hemingwaykits, there is one in PopularMechanics magazine.
I have an Arrand but heigh ho! The trouble with Popular Mechanics is that there are literally so many nice goodies described that one( moi) gets somewhat sidetracked.

Worth a LONG browse and a lot of printing.

N


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

Thanks Baron,

In the long term that is my wish. To make a dove tail slide, that will mount to an angle plate, and thus a vertical slide. May take a bit before im at that stage so looking for an interim measure until I have the skill set to do that. I know that it would be risky in that the length of the slide would be limited to the length of travel and rigidity of the crosslide. One day maybe.


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

I've seen the taper attachments in operation, and now understand how they work, for a MT1 taper though on my ML4 dialing in from an existing taper, would work just as well just a long winded way around. 

I also have a MT1 to MT2 adaptor which is brand new, as the Morse tapers are the same it wouldn't matter if I dialed the top slide in from this. Mounted and dialed in, in the four jaw. 

See I am listening just a little slow on the uptake


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## goldstar31 (Jan 25, 2018)

Think think, your older Myford may have dovetail slides but the beds of the newer Myfords are square.  Yer don't need to get into the realms of dovetails. Yea, I got them and  sic blether and a'that ( Rabbi Burn's Night ye ken) ye can get away with a creative thinking.

Creative thinking is that you might only need a traverse of 25MM or an inch. That's a 2 inch- yes TWO inch cutter sweep and this size will  probably have our lathe jumping out the shed and up the road.


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## fcheslop (Jan 25, 2018)

Erm , Before i become like the fufu bird roughly what size and depth of cut are you trying to do
For those that dont know the legend of the fufu bird, It ran round in ever decreasing circles until it disappeared up its own backside.
If you get a bit of heavy duty angle iron and the mentioned fly cutter or a solid block fly cut square you could mount the compound vertical that way you get a freeby if wobbly vertical slide


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## Nick Hulme (Jan 25, 2018)

Joe Pie has one answer - 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCUkJydSmdA&t=301s[/ame]

 - Nick


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## bazmak (Jan 25, 2018)

the simple answer to your original question is YES
For the home model machinist its do and make do
There are small problems most have been mentioned
However in my view,making a sleeve is a waste of time
it will not improve any runout problem,a 3 jaw chuck with min runout
would be best and i would not envisage the tool coming loose
The next best option is to make a MT2 to er collet chuck or buy
if available. The best option is to buy a mini mill then you have a lathe and a mill and not a combo. My thoughts


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## JCSteam (Jan 25, 2018)

Firstly Nick, yes Joe has an answer which is where my earlier post stems from with regards to a sleeve with three cuts bored out. 
Frazer that I've seen also, however that video is what sparked the question, an angle plate mounted to the cross slide with the top slide bolted to it giving Z axis. However a clamp of some sort would still need to be made to hold the workpiece, which would require some degree of milling a block of steel mounted to the top slide that was mounted to the angle plate ect. 
Norm I remember your lesson that the workpiece could be turned 180 in the clamps and you could machine the same length on the cross slide again, by packing. However a single pass will produce a far more accurate result if everything is true and failed in, I doubt I have the ability to reset my lathe a second time to a 0.0005" accuracy. 
Baz I can see the advantage of having separate machines, in mainly cost saving, but also by combining, some versatility of a machine is lost. Cost (with me, a missus and five kids and a fish especially) is always an important consideration. 

My thought was to be able to mill slots and internal reliefs into flat surfaces, only around 5mm at most (I think). Also to mill the webs of cranks At the desired angle.


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## kvom (Jan 25, 2018)

If you want to use the 3-jaw with no run out you'd need to bore soft jaws.


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## nautilus29 (Jan 25, 2018)

I would say go for it.  Especially if you only have a couple thousands of runout with the 3 jaw.  Just remember you lose a lot of rigidity milling on the lathe in general.

Some of the issues people are talking about with their slots being too big may not be coming from tool runout, but from rigidity issues.  Even on my bridgeports at work if I put a slot into a part the endmill will pull towards the climb side of the cutter(the smaller end mills especially).  This makes the slot slightly bigger because the end mill is walking some from being pulled in one direction.  This will only get worse with a less rigid setup.  So if you take light cuts and use a smaller end mill to at least clear out most of the stock before putting the full size cutter in you should have good results.


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## perko7 (Jan 26, 2018)

Not a good idea to hold an end mill directly in a lathe chuck as it does not grip well enough (both surfaces being so hard) plus the inaccuracy of the chuck.  I got around this by making a couple of collets out of mild steel rod/bar. Turn down the outside to about 4 to 5mm larger than the diameter of the end mill, then bore out to the exact diameter of the end mill.  Centre-pop the outside adjacent jaw No 1 so you always put it back in the same place. Remove, and using whatever means at your disposal cut three slots along the rod/bar at 120 degree spacing for the full depth of the bored-out part, making sure they are midway between the location of the chuck jaws. De-bur, and when you put it back in the chuck in the right position it should be able to grip an end mill quite well and it should run true.  Not as tight a grip as a proper collet, but adequate for the normally light cuts possible when milling in the lathe.


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## fcheslop (Jan 26, 2018)

Jon you have a few choices concerning this but all will either need a deeper pocket or time to make tooling its that simple
A simple vertical slide set up is usable yep its cruddy ,wobbly and causes loads of swearing as well as a stiff neck trying to see whats going on and as rightly mentioned slots tend to be oversize due to the total lack of rgidity
When I first started playing with these machines I spent more time making tooling than making toys its a simple fact you either make it or buy it but if you make it then you learn
Just get an old MT1 drill cut the drill off  and make a simple holder if you are that worried or do that thing Im not familiar with buy one
The crank web and many other thing including slots for simpler engines canbe done with that old fashioned tool that saves heating the workshop a file
cheers


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## xpylonracer (Jan 26, 2018)

Hi J, if you have to do milling operations on the lathe it is best to use a vertical slide attached to the crosslide, either use a vice mounted on the vert slide or by fixing parts direct to the vert sllde using the tee slots.
Vertical slides are available that allow the job to be swivelled to an angle with the lathe axis, this is certainly an advantage on some jobs but you do need to ensure the unit cannot move under cutting forces.
Using the normal 3jSC chuck to hold the milling cutters is not the best method but if you take sensible size cuts and always keep the cutters sharp all should be OK.
If you try to "climb mill" the cutter WILL move out of the chuck and spoil the work.
If you use screwed shank end mills provided there is enough length you can lock 2 nuts at the end and when fitted to the chuck bring the nut surface onto the back of the chuck jaws, this will reduce the risk of the cutter working out of the chuck.

It is best to observe the usual rule of locking slides that are not being used for making the cut, pay attention to using the best speed and feed for the material being cut.
Although milling on the lathe is not ideal if a milling machine is not available there is no choice.
Many works of art have been created that way but it will of course be a learning process perhaps with tears on occasions.

Marcus


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## werowance (Jan 26, 2018)

so for slot milling or keyway milling as well as cross drilling in the lathe I use this little tool to hold the roundstock and use the 3 jaw to hold the end mill or drill.  I think I got this idea from tubalcain videos but I couldn't find the video so maybe it was from someone else.  but it works great for quick and dirty keyways and cross drill.  
just bolt it down to the compound where my tool post bolt is already sticking out,  run it up to the face of the chuck to square it.  sinch down the bolt and then instert round stock and clamp it in the v and your off and running.  
it might not be accurate to split a hair,  but its plenty accurate for a cross hole for a tommy bar or a key way for a pully shaft or something.  quick and easy.

in the photo the v looks all chewed up,  its really just leftover glue from where I didn't have room to use clamps so I glued the part in,  I need to scrape or wirebrush all that off.


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## DJP (Jan 26, 2018)

I'm still taking the contrarian position to the responses to this original post. It's much better to have separate machines dedicated to their tasks than to constantly be setting up a combo machine. Milling especially requires that the work piece travel parallel and square to the cutter so jigs and set up are required only to tear it all down when the lathe is required.

Switching back and forth is a nuisance for me that easily justifies the cost of separate machines. When I need to mill, I step up to the mill. When I need to turn I step up to the lathe and when I need to drill the press is aways available and ready. 

Sure you can accomplish multiple tasks with only one basic machine and the creative challenge sounds like something that all of us have tried but in the end having separate machines are way better, in my opinion.


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## deverett (Jan 26, 2018)

One problem about holding a milling cutter in the 3 jaw chuck hasn't been mentioned:
Jon.  I believe you own an ML4 which is quite elderly and 'well used'.  The chucks that you received with it are probably elderly and well used and quite possibly there is some bell-mouthing to the ends of the chuck jaws, either from holding work in the end of the jaws or general wear and tear in the jaw slides.

So, although it is possible to hold the cutter directly in the jaws, your original idea of making an improvised collet will be the best and safest way.  Ensure your improvised collet is the full length of the jaws to minimise any walking out.  Another safety addition to be considered is to grind a small flat on the shank of the cutter and use a grub screw in the collet to bear on the flat.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


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## BaronJ (Jan 26, 2018)

Hi Jon, Guys,

One comment that I will make to Dave's post is if you are going to go down the road of making a collet, putting a lip on both ends will prevent the collet from walking out of the jaws.  Weldon put a flat on their cutters, so a small flat ground on the side with a securing grub screw will increase security of the cutter.

Now I did mention that I had made a dovetail slide some time ago, pre mill era, and said that if I could find it I would take some pictures of it.  Well here it is:

It was intended as a practice piece, I learnt a lot from doing this... I'm glad I bought a mill   Today I wouldn't dream of using the lathe to mill.




This first picture shows the flycut surface.  One of the first tries, at this time I think I was struggling to get the cutter ground properly.  You will notice that the surface gets progressively better as I learnt.  




That slot was cleaned up with a file and the insert done the same way.  If I remember correctly, I used super glue to hold it in place while I drilled, countersunk and threaded the hole.  2BA I think.




This picture clearly shows the brass 2BA pinch screw and the 2BA leadscrew along with the brass nut and 1mm cross drilled pin.




A horrible close up, out of focus picture.




Here you can clearly see the surface of the dovetails.







These last two pictures show how sharp the edges ended up.  The work piece was clamped to the cross slide using packings to lift things up to working hight and a small angle plate to make sure that each cut was at 90' to each other.  The cutter was clamped using the four jaw to hold square tools with the end ground to get the 45' degree edge.

I would have taken pictures of the tools that I made, but I no longer have them, probably reground to do other jobs.

Anyway I hope that helps.


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## JCSteam (Jan 26, 2018)

Well my milling question may be void soon anyway as I have been offered one of these 
http://www.lathes.co.uk/amolco/

Although it is designed for the ML7, or as a stand alone unit, the person who's offered me it has said that he will do the machining on the foot to allow it to fit my ML4 and most likely make some dovetail clamps to help lock it solid on the lathe bed. 

One very happy Jon 

Baron thanks for the photos of your efforts.


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## goldstar31 (Jan 26, 2018)

JCSteam said:


> Although it is designed for the ML7, or as a stand alone unit, the person who's offered me it has said that he will do the machining on the foot to allow it to fit my ML4 and most likely make some dovetail clamps to help lock it solid on the lathe bed.



ML7 to ML4??????   Should be an interesting saga err topic:hDe:

Cheers



N


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## JCSteam (Jan 26, 2018)

Yes I'm thinking a new foot may be required then save the one on it for when there's an upgrade. &#128512;

Though if your offered a horse you wouldn't look how long it's teeth are.just plain rude


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## DJP (Jan 26, 2018)

One more thought.... consider making this gift milling attachment a stand alone machine. The column does not look too rigid and the play in the lathe carriage will cause all sorts of milling problems if you try climb milling by mistake. Squaring a vice to the milling cutter could also be an issue. With a stand alone machine you can take the time to make it as rigid and precise as possible.

My last input for your consideration.


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## K-in-AZ (Jan 27, 2018)

Look into Military Auctions...  in the 70s I picked up a manual Bridgeport and a Moriseki lathe for $600 each that were not run out...


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## Nick Hulme (Jan 27, 2018)

My first milling work was on the Myford Super 7 using an angle plate with just less than half a Cross Slide Vice bolted to it to give a single axis slide and a drilled and tapped tooling plate bolted on the front. I held end mills in the older roughing 3 jaw chuck and the setup allowed me to make some useful parts. 
I moved on to an L. W. Staines Milling Attachment, having good X-Y in the horizontal plane made enough of a difference to make me want a vertical mill. 
The Amolco should work nicely until you feel the need for a separate mill ;-) 

 - Nick


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## bazmak (Jan 27, 2018)

Got it in a nutshell.I went thru the same process.Use what you have
graduate to a vertical slide or milling attachment.Get some use and when
you realise your limitations go on to bench mill. No brainer


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## Hopper (Jan 28, 2018)

To answer the original question: I have been holding end mill cutters in the 60-year-old three-jaw chuck on my Drummond M-type "Flagellator" lathe for all my milling work for some years. Never any problem. Cutters range from 6mm to 22mm diameter, milling up to 25mm thick steel plate. 
It works. Doubtless a good milling machine would work better, but as Bazmak says, you do what you have to.


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## goldstar31 (Jan 28, 2018)

Perhaps the original questions should now be ignored. 
Jon wrote to me last night to mention that in addition to the Amolco drilling attachment, he was getting a trio of Imperial collets which, if the research is done, will be no2Morse. Again, if the blurb is read, Jon actually is or will( watch the declension of the verb) will have a 3 in one lathe but a rather refined one with- wait for it- two motors with the new one capable of Four speeds and the Amolco spindle which will accept not only his three collets but  ALL the newer set of Myford chucks and normal drill chucks as well as things like ER25 collets and if he has done his homework, has a milling machine which can utilise one of the spindles as part of a --- dividing head.

He will have to think instead of 'horizontal mode' vertical mode some 90 degrees from what the rest of us might deem necessary.

So armed with an endless supply of studding, nuts and bolts and scrap metal, cut to size, he will be( watch the verb) in a BETTER state of tooling than most.

All that he has to do is concentrate on getting the lathe able to tackle endless things rather than delay the process by going off at a tangent and trying to make a few coins  at this time.

I'd be making something like Harold Hall's tool and cutter grinder. Not the best or anywhere near but a machine well within Jon's and the machine's capabilities.

My views- of course

Norman


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## goldstar31 (Jan 28, 2018)

I don't think that I am a member of the Practical Machinist web site but tend to dip into some of the comments in idle moments.

My last dip was to find that there is a firm mirror honing the spiral flutes on - yes, Jon----END mills. Perhaps it is worth a read too.

The mirror edge is only about a thou wide and the finish, in aluminum-- is fantastic.

It was no surprise as two old farts- George Thomas and Ian Bradley did something similar to their lathe tools.

Worth a look- well I enjoyed it

Cheers

N


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## JCSteam (Jan 28, 2018)

Hi Norm, yes I have had a couple hours looking at what I would be able to do, and buy/build for the lathe, you'll have to bear with me to catch up on all the possibilities Norm, there is as you say a 3D dimentions now been added, and it would be possible to machine quite a lot of parts, some I probably haven't thought of yet.


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## Wizard69 (Jan 31, 2018)

Wow a lot of good response here.   Im a bit busy so skipped to responding after the first page but the obvious answer here, to me anyways, is to make your own endmill holders.  They can be morse taper, retained by a draw bar or can screw onto your spindle.  The retention is key to avoid having  the end mill pull the holder out of the taper.  

Either approach is relatively easy and often a scrap box will have the required materials.  

Now all of that being said you can accomplish milling on a lathe using a screwed on chuck.  Use a four jaw and run out problems go away.   Pull out from a four jaw wont be much worse than from a collet.  That is you need to tighten properly to prevent pull out for the load you put on the end mill.


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## goldstar31 (Jan 31, 2018)

Wizard69 said:


> Wow a lot of good response here.   Im a bit busy so skipped to responding after the first page but the obvious answer here, to me anyways, is to make your own endmill holders.  They can be morse taper, retained by a draw bar or can screw onto your spindle.  The retention is key to avoid having  the end mill pull the holder out of the taper.
> 
> Either approach is relatively easy and often a scrap box will have the required materials.
> 
> Now all of that being said you can accomplish milling on a lathe using a screwed on chuck.  Use a four jaw and run out problems go away.   Pull out from a four jaw wont be much worse than from a collet.  That is you need to tighten properly to prevent pull out for the load you put on the end mill.



As it appears to be, Jon has or is getting a a set of imperial collets with his Amolco and the need is now, as you say, for a set of more Up to date MYFORD  tooling-- as his ML4 has different  threads etc and the Amolco  is No2  instead of No1 Morse Taper.


That was why I penned what I regarded as a Querulous quip :wall:

Cheers

N


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## JCSteam (Jan 31, 2018)

In a lot of respects the original question shouldn't be ignored as this brings up interesting possibilities. 
For example I want to drill two holes at 90° to each other in a square/rectangular block, with a milled recess running lengthways. 
I could do both operations without having to remove the workpiece and dial it it by just clamping to the cross slide. The piece can be milled from two directions at 90° if the end mill could be held in a four jaw chuck. 
See starting to think a little now, to add further to this both the top and side to the chuck of the lathe can be skimmed with a flycutter to give two perfectly flat surfaces with a true 90° angle. Could be handy for say a dual cylinder overhead slide valve steam engine, ensuring that the two faces remain at 90°. The front cylinder covers not been so critical in their alignment as the valve rods, and guides would be. 
Interesting possibities......


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## BaronJ (Feb 1, 2018)

Jon,

Holding a cutter in the four jaw, unless on the centre line, makes it a fly cutter.  You would alter the radius of the cut by moving the cutter away from the centre line of the chuck.  To do things like dovetails, you would need to shape the cutter to the profile that you wanted.  Things get quite delicate as they get smaller !  I recall that I broke a number of tools doing this.


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## goldstar31 (Feb 1, 2018)

Baron is right- on all counts. To 'do' dovetails, there is no reason not to use silver steel, machine for it for cutters and then file it up and then temper it.

Surprisingly, this would be the way that the old Myford would be used. I  used silver steel( drill rod) to do bore long slender holes-- and I often temper with a potato. 

On Monday, I'm at a 'do' near the Bagpipe Museum in Morpeth and I can assure you that lots of the exhibits there were turned using silver steel.

Perhaps some of us have 'lost our way'


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## JCSteam (Feb 1, 2018)

Thanks Baron, I know there's two different types of cut mentioned in my post above and sorry for any confusion. I was mearly trying to point out that the addition of a milling head doesn't necessarily mean that the original question needs ignoring in fact the possibilities of having such as described would enable multiple operations to be achieved without disturbing the work piece.


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## JCSteam (Feb 1, 2018)

goldstar31 said:


> Surprisingly, this would be the way that the old Myford would be used. I  used silver steel( drill rod) to do bore long slender holes-- and I often temper with a potato.
> 
> Perhaps some of us have 'lost our way'



Ok yes I have i have thought about it and I can't understand the potato????

Also if you haven't learned by now I'm easily side tracked. So loose my way often


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## goldstar31 (Feb 1, 2018)

JCSteam said:


> Ok yes I have i have thought about it and I can't understand the potato????
> 
> Also if you haven't learned by now I'm easily side tracked. So loose my way often



Potato- carbon- case harden:wall:

Too loose- low trek:hDe::hDe::hDe:

You need a Cunning plan- we Atkinsos get them in our jeans:thumbup:

Bean Counter


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## JCSteam (Feb 1, 2018)

Ok Google been a best friend, now understand what part the potato plays, though what the jean fumbling bean counter means????
Love the blowlamps


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## goldstar31 (Feb 1, 2018)

Good try about the humble 'Murphy' but no.
Quite a useful thing for things like Penicilliu, notatum but no again.

I was merely suggesting the casehardening  of starch by doing nothing more simple that getting a piece of silver steel almost white hot and sticking it in a spud to temper.

As for 'genes'- well, now?

N


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