# steamech marine twin



## scoop (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi all
  I recently found in a post on this site a link to a site called "Steamech".Having had a quick look I thought that the Twin marine engine plan looked like an interesting project and for a couple of quid I bought the plans.They arrived by e-mail pretty quick( a few hours) and looked well done.Having had time to look at a few parts I noticed a missing dimension.I have e-mailed the site from which the plans came and have received no replies in the last week.As the site is based in New Zealand and this is the summer down there I am assuming that the chap is on holiday and away from the computer.

 While I await his e-mail reply however I wonder if any of you fine ladies or gentlemen have these plans and can assist me with the missing size?

 the drawing concerned is sheet 3.The part I need help with is the "main bearing block".I would like to know the two thickness dimensions missing from the side view(bottom right hand side of drawing).One of these is only really cosmetic but the other one not only gives the finished thickness of the part but also the position of the crankshaft journals.I could probably work out a size from the rest of the plans but would like to know the original designed size to make sure

 There is a chance that the dimension is on another plan and that I can't see it for looking,but I don't think it is.

  I will probably get a reply from the designer in time but I would like to take a Belt and Braces stance here and try to find this information from another source.

 best regards Steve C.


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## wespe (Jan 20, 2009)

Did you check the BOM (Bill of Materials) for that drawing? Sometimes where dimensions are not critical, such as in the thickness of bearing blocks, and where stock sizes of material will be appropriate the draftsman will only give a profile, or a profile and a side view to show the depth of a bore or something along that lines. In these cases the thickness of the part will be the thickness of the stock called out in the BOM.

-Tom


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## scoop (Jan 20, 2009)

No materials list on these drawings.The part concerned would have to be machined as it is the lower half of a split main bearing and the split line is the centre line of the crankshaft journal,hence the thickness of the part is the same dimension as the distance from the base plate to the centre line of the crank shaft.
  As this is a very important dimension I think that anybody who builds this engine will need to find this information out.

  best regards  Steve C.


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## malcolmt (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi Steve

I have just bought these plans and concur with you hopefully we will get an answer soon. I am also astonished at the mixed imperial and metric dimensions ? All of that said i think they are excellently drawn and very clear plans, So i still believe its money well spent.

Kind regards

Malcolm


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## scoop (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi Malcolm
 Glad you agree I thought I was missing something.Have not got around to fully checking all parts but I reckon the rest look ok.weird dimensioning indeed, he has even used 1/2" as the cylinder bore but 12.7mm as the locating register on the bottom of the cylinder cover.Perhaps it's just to keep everybody sweet without bias to one system or another.Am not looking to building this for some time but if you get an answer before I do could you pass it on.

 good luck  

 best regards Steve C.


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## malcolmt (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi Steve

Sure will. I have e-mailed him today with that and mentioned the odd dimensioning, Not as a negative just an observation. I also told him where i got his site information from and invited him to visit us here. I think i will buy the laser cut parts as i don't have a mill, but i do want to personalise it all (different design columns, Handwheels rather than T bars on the reversing lever locking), Bits like that. Maybe I'll re-draw it and send it back to him ;D ;D ;D

Kind regards

Malcolm


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## Blogwitch (May 4, 2010)

This is an old post, but because I have the same problem, I was wondering if anyone ever got a solution from this guy.

My thing started here

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1638.0

I am just going thru all my collections of things to be made, and checking thru the plans just after I first got the parts, I found the same problem. But I have slipped up recently, and I think the last email I sent him about the problem was a couple of months ago.

After continually emailing him about the missing dimension, he seems to have gone blind or computer illiterate to replying to them, but is still not averse to selling his bits whenever he can, as his website changes from time to time.

Has anyone ever got a reply from this chap without buying stuff from him?

There seems to be no way this chap can be shamed into replying, as I have tried it all over the years to get him to give me the missing dimension, which without it, his plans and engine bits are of no use to anyone, unless you want to take a gamble and hope you can guesstimate it.


Bogs

The part plan below shows the offending bit, and as mentioned before, without the exact dimension, getting the engine to run might be a major problem.


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## radfordc (May 4, 2010)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> There seems to be no way this chap can be shamed into replying, as I have tried it all over the years to get him to give me the missing dimension, which without it, his plans and engine bits are of no use to anyone, unless you want to take a gamble and hope you can guesstimate it.



Most likely the fellow won't supply the dimension because he can't. He may be one of those guys who steals others ideas and material and sells it as his own.

Charlie


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## Dan Rowe (May 4, 2010)

Maybe I am missing the point but the missing dimensions do not seam to be a deal breaker to me.

Assuming the cylinder is mounted on the same base plate with some sort of frame, the length of the connecting rod and stroke should be known. The piston rod is either a fixed length or an adjustable length. Either way the piston has to have the same clearence at TDC and BDC.

The only other bit that is effected by the center of the crank is the valve eccentrics but the valve gear usually has a method to set it on assembly so that can not really be the issue.

Dan


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## Blogwitch (May 5, 2010)

Charlie,

A few years back, there was a Chinese company producing this engine, and I thought they had copied his design, but looking at it now, it just might have been the other way around.


Dan,

With a little work, I could most probably work it out to the nearest thou, but why should I?

This engine appeals not only to experienced people but also ones with less experience, in which case, they most probably would get stuck once they start to machine that area. If I worked it all out and put it about on here, what would happen with all the other people who don't visit this site, but have most probably tried to contact him, with no success. 

The missing dimension most probably won't be found until a fair way down the line. Much too late to do the following.

Which brings me to a way to force him to give the dimension or lose money from the sale of the plans, as that seems to be the only thing he is interested in.

Because you can use Paypal to purchase the plans, you can get your money back (up to a certain time period), by stating the item is not fit for purpose, because a critical dimension is missing. Once he has a few digitally sent plans returned, and Paypal demanding your money back, I am sure he will soon start to put the dimensions on the plans, or replying to emails sent to him, or even put the dimension on his web site, so that people can find it for themselves.

I still have three emails to send. One to Steamech with a link to this post, another to a model shop he seems to have got himself involved with somehow, and the last to Paypal, informing them that he is knowingly selling defective goods.

Leeches like this need to be got rid of, or forced to toe the line and offer a decent service, I have plenty of time on my hands at the moment, and if needs be, I have a lit cigarette poised to burn him off the skin of the internet.

I will send the first email today, then if still no reply within a week, I will send the second, and so on.


Bogs


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## scoop (May 7, 2010)

Mr Bogs
 Never did hear from this bloke about the dimension,to be honest I had forgotten all about this plan.As is has been said, it should not be too difficult to calculate the size but that does really negate the point of buying the plan in the first place as if he had just sent a blank piece of paper I could have filled in all the shapes and sizes myself from scratch,(probably wouldn'nt have worked but I hope you see the logic).

  Good luck with your quest but somehow I think the bloke is just a chancer without the knowledge to produce the information.Just another knob with an E-bay account and too much time on his hands.

 best regards  Steve c


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## doubletop (May 19, 2010)

I just looked to see if I could find a phone number but there doesn't seem to be one available on the site or in the directory. However, I did a whois on the domain name and now have name address and phone number I'll give him a call in the morning for you. I won't post the details here but anybody can go to www.nzs.com and find out for themselves.

I'll also ask at our club to see if anybody knows about him. NZ is such a small place you can always find somebody who knows someone or another. Club meeting isn't until early June though.

Bogs suggested that these plans were available from China at one time, for all we know the guy could be importing these parts and plans from China and re-branding.


Pete


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## Blogwitch (May 19, 2010)

Not the plans Pete, just the engines from China.

John


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## doubletop (May 19, 2010)

Bad news from whois I found the company name "Boost Product Design" and went to the companies register and they were struck off 19 August 2008. So the emails will be onto the "don't care" pile

However, the website is still up and I assume your emails aren't being bounced so that bill must have been paid so I'll still try to call the guy tomorrow.

Pete


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## Majorstrain (May 19, 2010)

Hi Guys,
I just purchased the plans, I'll start 3D cad-ing them when they arrive and see what we come up with.
$10AU no big deal and it looks like a nice little engine.

Could be a couple of weeks b4 I complete it.

Cheers,
Phil


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## kf2qd (May 19, 2010)

Looks to me like it is like it is either 1/4 In. or 6MM thick and 22 + 6 + 6 or 34 MM long.


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## Blogwitch (May 20, 2010)

kf2qd,

That is the problem.

The differemce between 6mm and 1/4" could cause it to lock up or not.


Bogs


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## doubletop (May 20, 2010)

Spoke to the guys wife this morning and she suggested I call back after 6:00pm. I've tried 3 times without luck so far but will keep trying. 

Pete


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## Blogwitch (May 20, 2010)

So he is still above ground then!!

Wouldn't have thought it.

Thanks for your troubles


Bogs


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## Majorstrain (May 21, 2010)

Hi Guys,
The drawings arrived the morning after I ordered them. 
I've managed to get the CAD work finished.

Here is a YouTube video of the engine in 3D and turning. 

[youtube=425,350]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YDFcuqEtJB8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YDFcuqEtJB8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

When I had completed the CAD work I noticed that the piston hit the cylinder top covers. The piston rod needed to be shortened by 2.6mm.
The error was not caused by an incorrect bearing block dimension because the valve gear operated correctly.

Here are some drawing excerpts with amended or added dimensions.

Bearing Block - dimensions added




_And corrected the erroneous 21mm dimension on my part. _

Cylinder plate _ Included the dimension for the bore holes.





Cylinder plate outer profile - just some useful dimensions.






If you need any more dimensions just yell or PM me. 
Cheers,
Phil


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## boatmadman (May 21, 2010)

Phil,

Thats great stuff, very helpful.

I have one question, on the bearing block drawing, what does the 21mm dimension refer to?

Ian


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## Blogwitch (May 21, 2010)

Thanks for that Phil.

I actually have a set of the laser cut parts, I will have to check what the dimension is for the PCD of the hold down bolts that you say are incorrect.

I will see if I can find them tomorrow and give you a bit of feedback as to what they actually are on what I have been sold.


John

NB 

I have just checked the original drawings and they are correct at a PCD (pitch circle diameter) of 18mm, you are showing the PCR (pitch circle radius) which is 9mm. 

You had me worried there, but I will still check them out.


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## ironman (May 21, 2010)

John, when did you get their laser cut parts? Are they good quality? I am thinking about the investrment. Thanks, Ray


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## Blogwitch (May 21, 2010)

Ray,

It is a bit of a long story, but I will keep it short.

A few years ago, maybe 4 or 5, I sent away to Steamech, an email, asking when the laser cut bits would be back stock. As usual, no reply.

About a year later, out of the blue, I had an email off him stating that he had very limited quantity in stock, so I bought a set, complete with the plans. 

Soon after, he went out of stock again, and haven't seen them on sale since.

The quality is absolutely great. Except for dressing off the sprue hangers, they are ready to fit (I would polish them first).

When I first got them, I measured up the con rods, machining joining link and caps, and when I worked it all out, when the links are removed, the big end hole in the the cap and rod would be an almost perfect fit dimension.







Sorry it isn't a better picture. The dull ones are from much thicker plate.

All you can really do is send the email, and hopefully wait until he deems it time to contact you, if ever.


John


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## Majorstrain (May 21, 2010)

> I have one question, on the bearing block drawing, what does the 21mm dimension refer to?



Thanks Ian,
the 21mm refers to a post-midnight brain fart by me. *club* 



> There is definitly something a bit "fishy" with the dimensioning scheme in Majorstrain's drawing of the bearing block. The radii at the ends of the bearing block are not concentric with the bolt holes. The bolt centers are at 22 mm. The 21 mm dimension is actually to the point of tangency where the 3mm radius at the ends of the part merge with the sides of the part. If you look at the original drawing that Bogs posted, the overall length is 27 mm and the overall width is 6 mm. Thus 27-6=21mm. That dimension is a "resultant" dimension, and is somewhat meaningless



Your spot-on Brian,
The sequence of events goes like this.
1- 3D the part, forgot the end radii
2- Get the computer to do the hard work drawing the part and then I dimension it putting hole centre lines in.
3- Decide it has too much clutter and remove the centre lines as well as some lower duplicated dimensions. (should have been all)
4- Just b4 posting, check the original drawing and note the radii. 
5- Nip back and fillet the part (There is the fishy bit oh
6- And lastly and unnoticed the total length dimension of 27 slides back to the radii centre mark and becomes 21mm.
Wallah, 27mm becomes 21mm. A valid dimension but not the one it was meant to be.

Good thing I'm not flying, That reads like an accident report (swiss cheese factor) scratch.gif

_Edited to show the correct sequence of events _ 



> You had me worried there, but I will still check them out.



Bogs,
I've got the wife to tattoo the meaning of PCD on my forehead. Sorry for the heart stopper, now I just need to find some glasses.

Always happy to help (and spread "Confusion and Delay")
Phil


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## Brian Rupnow (May 21, 2010)

Majorstrain--I posted, then went out and cut the lawn. As I was buzzing around on my riding mower I got thinking, "Hmmm---That answer I posted wasn't done correctly."---I come off as kind of a Dick!!!"--I came back in and removed my post. Sorry---Brian (The drawing is still a bit (Ahem)---fishy. If one looks at the original drawing, the part is dimensioned as being 27m long. What you have done is shown a part that is now 28 mm long. According to the original drawing that Bogs posted, the radii at the ends of the part are not concentric with the bolt holes. They can not be, if the part is built as per the original drawing. 27-(3+3)=21. The hole centers are at 22mm. You need to remove the top 22mm dimension and give an overall length of the part ---IF you want what you have drawn to be the same as the original drawing.


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## Majorstrain (May 21, 2010)

No worries Brian,
Your a master at CAD and I greatly appreciate your expertise. 
I'm slowly discovering cause and effect of last minute changes. The only counter measure is check the Bl--dy drawing b4 letting out into the real world. ;D


> "Hmmm---That answer I posted wasn't done correctly."---I come off as kind of a Dick!!!"


Nope, never took it that way. It was very constructive.

the shortening of the piston rod is bugging me, so I've removed it until I can confirm the issue.

Cheers all,
Phil


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## Majorstrain (May 22, 2010)

Time for some fresh eyes to scrutinize the dimensions.

The assembly drawing contains the shortened piston rod. I don't see any error that I have made that would require the rod to be shorter but that doesn't mean there isn't one.





See what you can find.

Here is the revised piston rod drawing.





The rod is 2.55mm shorter to stop it hitting the head and to set up equidistant travel between the ports.

Cheers
Phil


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## Twmaster (May 22, 2010)

What a shame that joker is selling such defective plans. Also a big shame as it's a neat looking engine I'd possibly like to make someday.

Some people's children....


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## Blogwitch (May 22, 2010)

Phil,

If you remember the original query about the thickness of the bearing block.

That thickness would have a direct relationship to the length required for the piston rod. The thicker the base, the shorter the rod would need to be, or the longer the columns would need to be, plus most probably loads of other things as well. So everything is interlinked one way or another.

That is why I wanted to get the dimension from the horse's mouth. That would prove whether they come under the 'fit for use' ruling that is in operation in most countries.

If his plans are seriously wrong, thus unfit for purpose, then people can demand their money back.

It is good you are trying to solve the problems to give us a working set of drawings, and please do carry on. 


John


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## scoop (May 22, 2010)

Hello all
 The recent activity on this thread has got me interested in these plans again after a long time in the drawer,little did I think that just asking for a simple dimension would generate so much enthusiasm for a cure.Having no ability or access to cad systems or the like means that to find out that much of the plan is suspect is dissapointing.
 However if the plan as drawn does not describe a functioning engine and is therefore "unfit for purpose",then surely this leads to a situation whereby anybody who amends the drawings creates a different engine alltogether and could therefore be fully justified in releasing a full set of corrected drawings and claiming them as his own.If someone on this site managed to create a working set of plans by use of his or her ability and made them available through this site then I would asume the original seller could not really complain too much.

 Any views on my logic?

 regards  Steve C


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## Maryak (May 22, 2010)

scoop  said:
			
		

> However if the plan as drawn does not describe a functioning engine and is therefore "unfit for purpose",then surely this leads to a situation whereby anybody who amends the drawings creates a different engine altogether and could therefore be fully justified in releasing a full set of corrected drawings and claiming them as his own.If someone on this site managed to create a working set of plans by use of his or her ability and made them available through this site then I would assume the original seller could not really complain too much.
> 
> Any views on my logic?
> 
> regards Steve C



Steve,

It's a fine line between pleasure and pain. ;D

Best Regards
Bob


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## Majorstrain (May 22, 2010)

> If you remember the original query about the thickness of the bearing block.
> 
> That thickness would have a direct relationship to the length required for the piston rod. The thicker the base, the shorter the rod would need to be, or the longer the columns would need to be, plus most probably loads of other things as well. So everything is interlinked one way or another.
> 
> That is why I wanted to get the dimension from the horse's mouth.



Too true John, the draftsman's word is defiantly the last word on the matter. Let us know what you hear.

It certainly is a critical dimension and I have made two assumptions in my working up of the virtual engine.
Assumptions being the optimum word! and that brings to mind an old saying.
*"Assumption is the mother of all stuff ups" ;D* of course it was pronounced with more colour when I heard it back in my apprenticeship.

The first assumption was a direct measurement off the drawing that was printed on A4 paper. I compared the other dimensions on the block and came up with a 2:1 scale.
The second assumption was that all the other linear dimensions were metric and it was a good chance that the missing dimension was too. The measured dimension was 6mm give or take a smidgen for line thickness. 6.35mm or 1/4" would have been a drawing a longer bow.

I'm not too worried about "unfit for purpose", It only cost me the price of a meal at Macca's (mental note: must stop eating there, I could buy some more plans for stuff I probably won't get around to building) and I've seen a lot worse plans out there.

What I would like to see on this engine is the revering levers linked or one lever to do the job. 
Is it a full size practice to have them separate and if so what advantage does it give, or was it just easier to model this way.
 *beer*
Phil


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## doubletop (May 26, 2010)

I've spoken to the guys wife again. Had a pretty long conversation but he was busy. Phone numbers were exchanged and an expectation of a return call but as that hasn't happened so I'll paraphrase the conversation with his wife. 

I explained there was a bit of interest by this forum in this engine that probably has resulted in the purchase of plans recently. I suggested he take a look at this thread and respond himself but that hasn't happened either.

These plans were drawn up by him about 10 years ago and a local (Christchurch NZ) company did the laser cut parts. So its an entirely NZ enterprise. Since then his interests have shifted from steam to RC cars so now all the parts have been sold and there is no expectation of any more parts being produced. John Bogs said that he had seen this engine available from Asia. Apparently it was a rip off of these plans but a threat of action closed that source down.

I raised the issue of disappointment to the non response to emails. But apparently he had had so many "dumb" questions he has given up responding to queries as he doesn't want to get involved in lengthy debates. It was acknowledged that yes there could be missing dimension but couldn't they be worked out? Trouble was the QA process 10 years ago and being too close to it to notice missing dimensions.

That's about it, its plans only from now on. A pity really as I would have been interested in doing this engine with the laser cut parts.With the number of people now with plans, and some with parts, a mass build off looked like a possibility.

Pete


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## Blogwitch (May 26, 2010)

Pete, many thanks for chasing it up.

At least we know the answer now, he doesn't give a rat's a**e about his customers.

So all I can say to anyone who is reading this post, don't buy anything off that site. 

I will now send details to Paypal to see if they will cancel his money trading methods, or force him to do something with his defective plans, and to reply to queries about them.

That method certainly worked with Chronos when I reported them to Paypal over bad selling methods a few months ago.


John


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## tmuir (May 27, 2010)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> That method certainly worked with Chronos when I reported them to Paypal over bad selling methods a few months ago.
> 
> John



That reminds me I need to have a go at Chronos as despite taking my money over 2 months ago for everything I ordered they didn't deliver one part and when I questioned them about it I got a curt response from them that they knew they hadn't sent me that part and I would get it when it came in.
Its time for me to demand my money back from them as it still hasn't arrived.

Also the response on Steamech no longer interested in steam explains why last year he sold off all his casting for his TEs last year.
They are fantastic brass cast wheels and a nice laser cut other parts. When I do come to built it I hope there isn't any major problems with it too.


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## Blogwitch (May 27, 2010)

Tony,

I reported Chronos for purely what you are experiencing. Still having items shown as in stock for sale when they were out of stock. If you notice now, they are very quick to get the OUT OF STOCK sticker put up. 
I know that it is difficult for them to keep everything up to date on a website such as theirs, but it is now a lot better than it used to be.

Because I had reported them, they took it upon themselves not to deal with me any more, but a quick word in someone's ear soon had that sorted.

Don't be afraid to DEMAND action, you are in the right, and as such, you should be treated fairly.

In this country, as far as I know, they are not allowed to take a payment for an item unless it is in stock and on it's way to you. So ask them for the interest back on your payment as well, you won't get it, but you will get very fast action, especially if you mention that you will be contacting the people who you made the payment thru, such as Paypal or a credit card.

There is too much of this going on nowadays, and it is up to us little people to show these companies that they are there to serve us, not the other way around.

If you don't like their methods of operation, then complain, with threats to go higher if needs be. They are in the wrong, so they have no comebacks against yourself.

Unless you stated that you would hang on until the item was in stock, they should have refunded your money straight away. It is better in your pocket than theirs.

John


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## tmuir (May 27, 2010)

I agree Bos.
Time for me to bring that recpt back inside from my workshop and send them an email.
Its only a bit over 10 pounds but it was for a 1inch die holder for my lathe which I won't know.
If I knew I would have to wait months I wouldn't of ordered it and would of just made one. I only purchased it as they had some other items that I did need and when purchasing from overseas I like to pad my orders a bit to help spread the cost of postage.

I might only place small orders from them but it has already cost them money as I saw something on ebay just last night that looked useful and for a good price, but when I saw it was Chronos selling it I decided not to buy it as I'm not giving them any money whilst they are holding my money for an item not delivered.


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## boatmadman (May 11, 2012)

Having just re found my steamech plans and components in the bottom of a drawer, I thought I would resurrect this thread and ask:

Did anyone resolve the missing dimension issue?

Ian


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## Blogwitch (May 11, 2012)

Only what you have read about.

I contacted Paypal over the issue many moons ago, but he must have squirmed his way out as he is still selling the plans, and never answers emails.


John


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## fuzzymuff (Jul 5, 2012)

Hi.
You may be able to contact the guy thru ebay.
If you go to advanced search and click on items buy seller..type in steamech and search his ebay page will come up.
The guys name is Bruce.

He is no longer in to radio control cars.....


Graham....love this web site


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## ShedBoy (Jul 6, 2012)

Steer clear of this obvious crook is my only advice. Paid for plans and never recieved.

Brock


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