# What to use for miniature drive belts???



## Brian Rupnow (Jul 13, 2008)

Yesterday when I was at the steam show in Muskoka, thre were many old steam toys that were driven by little steam engines. They all used drive belts that appeared to be about .060 to.080" diameter round fabric covered material. Does anybody know---what was it --- and where to get it---and can it be cut to size and spliced? These tiny engines don't develop a whole lot of power, so whatever this miniature belting is, it must bend very easily but still have a high enough coefficient of friction to drive things properly.


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## Florian (Jul 13, 2008)

Hi Brian

There are many different types of miniature drivebelts that can be used:

-small spring (wilesco does sell them)
-o-rings

I think i have seen that kind of belt you are looking for on ebay, if its the same, then you can easily splice it: 

-cut the ends
-heat with a lighter
-press slightly together 
-cut the overlapping material

or

-use some instant cement to glue the ends together (that one for rubber)

The same material is being used to drive watchmakers lathes. But it then has a diameter of 4mm / 0.160"


Florian


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 13, 2008)

It seems I have answered my own question!! I did a web search and came up with this---
http://www.toysteamengine.com/


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## Tin Falcon (Jul 13, 2008)

McMaster Carr has 
3/16 diameter spring beltingand connectors
 1/16 diameter endless o ring belts 
urethane belting material as small as 3/32 for solid and 3/16 for hollow core
leather belting as small as 1/8
Tin


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## mklotz (Jul 13, 2008)

PMR sells miniature (~0.25" wide) flat belting for use with their miniature belt-driven machine tools.


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## Bogstandard (Jul 13, 2008)

For the recyclers amongst you, old tape decks and walkmans usually have a few very small belts in them, belt driven record decks have very nice flat belting that can be cut to length and joined with someting as simple as sellotape or even duct tape.

John


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## lugnut (Jul 15, 2008)

You would be supprized at all the goodies that you will find in a old discarded ink jet printer. I took an old 3 in 1 ink jet apart and got all kinds of pulleys, belts, gears, shafts, motors. and screws and bolts. 8)
Mel


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## rake60 (Jul 15, 2008)

I was killing time at WalMart one day while the wife was shopping.
The dog *EXPECTS* a toy when when we come home so I was in the pet area.

I saw a cat collar that looked exactly like a miniature flat belt.
I don't know just how long I'd been standing there working out a way to
stitch that collar into a belt.
Long enough for a WalMart associate to come over and ask if I need help! :big:

Rick


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## Cedge (Jul 16, 2008)

Brian
the toy engine use what are known as "spring belts". They come in two styles. the German version screws one end of the spring into the other, while the American versions tend to have interlocking loops on each end. ( a much more secure method) The web site at www.jensensteamemgines.com has them and you can get them easily by calling 800-525-5245 and speaking with the well known Dorita. Yes... they can be cut to length or several can be connected for longer lengths.... which reminds me.... I need to get a few myself.

Steve


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## DickDastardly40 (Jul 16, 2008)

In all seriousness, I think I read online somewhere that waxed wide tape dental floss makes good media for small drive belts.

Am I going mad or just eating too much cheese? ;D

Al


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## PTsideshow (Jul 16, 2008)

Various connection devices for small belting.




The pliers for leather round belting and hook connectors




Some of the McMaster-Carr selection of belting.
They also have a great selection of chain drive parts.
The leather belting is used on the governor drive of the small working engines like Cretors etc.
Regular O-rings also will work, You can also check with the local place that sell butcher and food service equipment and that does repairs as the leather belts are still used in the equipment.
If you need a small 2mm leather drive belt they have round lace that you can use. the only thing you will have to make up your own tube and hook or hollow connector.


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## tmuir (Jul 16, 2008)

DickDastardly40  said:
			
		

> In all seriousness, I think I read online somewhere that waxed wide tape dental floss makes good media for small drive belts.
> 
> Am I going mad or just eating too much cheese? ;D
> 
> Al



I've not tried it yet but know of a number of people that have and they all have said good things about it and the best thing has to be the price. One roll of dental floss can make a lot of drive belts. :big:


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 17, 2008)

I had to go over to the south end of town today on business, and I remembered before I left the house that Hercules O-rings have a warehouse and sales outlet over there, so I took my engine with me. the man on the counter was so intrigued by the steam engine that he gave me a 3/32" diameter o-ring for a drive belt, no charge. He had to try a couple of different sizes first, but found a perfect length on the third try. It works very well, and he gave me the o-ring number in case it ever wears out!!!


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## Mcgyver (Jul 17, 2008)

your engine's become your good will embassador 

I like and have use the urethane belting but the bright pinks, oranges and yellows it comes in makes the o ring a better looking choice for a steam engine imo


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## Kludge (Aug 11, 2008)

Brian Rupnow  said:
			
		

> They all used drive belts that appeared to be about .060 to.080" diameter round fabric covered material. Does anybody know---what was it --- and where to get it---and can it be cut to size and spliced?



Can't say for sure about that but leather's always a good choice. Watchmakers have used roughly 4mm square leather lacing for belts since Noah was a cabin boy although the current trend is to baloney slice and glue rather than staple them together since it reduces the wear on the pulleys. Leather's good stuff since it grabs the pulley surfaces and is tough enough to handle a bunch of abuse. Cows seem to like it anyway.

Taking that as a lead, look around to see if there's any thin leather laying about not doing anything (that you can get away with; cutting up _someone_'s purse et al for the leather is not considered good form. Besides it's usually fake now anyway.) or take a look at a thrift store. Also, leather goods shops have lacing of several orders and round lacing, which is nice for some applications, is also available and isn't all that pricey. 

The belts from cassette decks (the better ones since some of the cheapies use what they like to refer as "direct drive"), VCRs, some older camcorders (I don't know about the newer ones.), printers of a fairly broad selection of types, and I think even scanners (most all of which have already been mentioned) are pretty cool as well. Ummm ... it would probably be a real good idea to ensure no one wants them first. Casually informing your first born that his/her printer just gave up its life so your engine driven accessories could live might not play well over dinner.

Best regards,

Kludge


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## tel (Aug 11, 2008)

I use strips slit from a spindle moulder belt. These are about 6" wide and quite thin. The one on the stamping battery shown in the pic has been in service for for over 20 years now, with quite a few 8 and 10 hour runs included in it's 'log' time


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## biometrics (Sep 3, 2008)

Depending on the size, strength and length requirements, "O"-rings are usually available at Home Depot and Lowes in the hardware department. They are usually continuous, seamless neoprene... and not very expensive.


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## vlmarshall (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok, so, it's an old topic.
Still, I thought I'd mention... a good source of spring belts is an old oil seal, especially a large-diameter axle or crankshaft seal. The rubber sealing lip is backed up by a spring that makes a great small belt, and the spring twists apart with a taper at one end, ready to be joined with others, to form a longer belt.


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## Orrin (Jul 9, 2009)

Jerry Howell suggests using mylar audio tape, spliced with cellophane tape. It would seem as though it would be too slippery, but it works for Jerry.

Audio tape looks like scaled down flat belting. O-rings and springs don't. That said, Jerry uses springs for power transmission on one of his personal models. 

Orrin


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## mklotz (Jul 9, 2009)

PMR sells miniature flat belting

http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/home.php?cat=27

I've used this on my model overhead flat-belt drive system and it works quite nicely with crowned pulleys. It joins easily with super-glue.


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## Bentwings (Jan 10, 2022)

Kludge said:


> Can't say for sure about that but leather's always a good choice. Watchmakers have used roughly 4mm square leather lacing for belts since Noah was a cabin boy although the current trend is to baloney slice and glue rather than staple them together since it reduces the wear on the pulleys. Leather's good stuff since it grabs the pulley surfaces and is tough enough to handle a bunch of abuse. Cows seem to like it anyway.
> 
> Taking that as a lead, look around to see if there's any thin leather laying about not doing anything (that you can get away with; cutting up _someone_'s purse et al for the leather is not considered good form. Besides it's usually fake now anyway.) or take a look at a thrift store. Also, leather goods shops have lacing of several orders and round lacing, which is nice for some applications, is also available and isn't all that pricey.
> 
> ...


sometimes you can go to good will and find fine lays purse dirt cheap. By using a new exacto blade in a balsa stripper toool and carefulycuttingbghr purse apart you can reclaim fine letter for belting. I till save my old TIG welding gloves as they have very soft real leather. Being well used they even have worn belt look while doing a good job. We never treat the gloves so they are naturally smoothe. They are about $15 new sometimes at harbor freight otherwise any welding supply has them.you may have to have several splices in a belt but done nicely with super glue they work ok. Easy to fix too. 
 Otherwise if you are using vee groove pulleys McMaster Carr has o ring material in a variety of hardness and materials  even automotive washer tubing might work. Have not tried it yet but it might depend on your pulley groove. The rubber will take to superglue pretty well.
im undecided on pulleys. My new engine will have both flat belt and v belt capability.. I have spring belts now but I’ll need something.
I may ve to McKee pulleys unless I can find some.

bbyron


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## Charles Lamont (Jan 11, 2022)

+1 on pigskin for flat belt for authentic old fashioned drives.

Looking for a belt drive for an engine coolant pump, and being mildly surprised to find belt and pulleys readily available, I settled on MXL pitch toothed belt.


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## Aerostar55 (Jan 11, 2022)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Yesterday when I was at the steam show in Muskoka, thre were many old steam toys that were driven by little steam engines. They all used drive belts that appeared to be about .060 to.080" diameter round fabric covered material. Does anybody know---what was it --- and where to get it---and can it be cut to size and spliced? These tiny engines don't develop a whole lot of power, so whatever this miniature belting is, it must bend very easily but still have a high enough coefficient of friction to drive things properly.


I’ve had good luck using the larger “O” rings used in home water filters they come in sizes from about 4 inches in diameter to 6 or more and with various thickness


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## SmithDoor (Jan 11, 2022)

I have used rubber bands or o-rings.
They are low cost they but have life of around 5 to 7 years. They both have good rip. 
The rubber bands need a crowned pulleys like used for flat belt. The o-ring need a groved pulley in shape of the O-rings. 

Dave 



Brian Rupnow said:


> Yesterday when I was at the steam show in Muskoka, thre were many old steam toys that were driven by little steam engines. They all used drive belts that appeared to be about .060 to.080" diameter round fabric covered material. Does anybody know---what was it --- and where to get it---and can it be cut to size and spliced? These tiny engines don't develop a whole lot of power, so whatever this miniature belting is, it must bend very easily but still have a high enough coefficient of friction to drive things properly.


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## Bentwings (Jan 11, 2022)

Aerostar55 said:


> I’ve had good luck using the larger “O” rings used in home water filters they come in sizes from about 4 inches in diameter to 6 or more and with various thickness


I too am going to use prongs for belts to start with. You can get prong material from McMaster Carr just cut clean and square and super glue ends together. I also save my old Tig welding gloves and cut flat leather strips from them again super glue them together some times you have to slice or taper the flat surface. I super sharpen exacting or plain straight razor blade with fine hone usually Arkansas stones they are usually white very hard very smooth then use leather belt for stripe to break honed edges . You can make crowned pulleys by swining coin pound on lathe then polish the point to radius. It’s a little fussy but works.  I found it’s not too critical once I got the technique steel I probably best for wear but even polished is ugly brass does wear a little aluminum is ok if you can get 7075 or 2024 material there is home anodizing kits available but I have not used them . You can lightly knurl them but it’s ugly functional yes but…… I also got spring belts from mc master Carr . My new turbine has round knurl on the pulley groove.  Sounds like another tool to make  I have some air hardening tool steel that is easy to heat treat  so I’ll look into tool making later if needed .
Byron


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## Bentwings (Jan 11, 2022)

Bentwings said:


> I too am going to use prongs for belts to start with. You can get prong material from McMaster Carr just cut clean and square and super glue ends together. I also save my old Tig welding gloves and cut flat leather strips from them again super glue them together some times you have to slice or taper the flat surface. I super sharpen exacting or plain straight razor blade with fine hone usually Arkansas stones they are usually white very hard very smooth then use leather belt for stripe to break honed edges . You can make crowned pulleys by swining coin pound on lathe then polish the point to radius. It’s a little fussy but works.  I found it’s not too critical once I got the technique steel I probably best for wear but even polished is ugly brass does wear a little aluminum is ok if you can get 7075 or 2024 material there is home anodizing kits available but I have not used them . You can lightly knurl them but it’s ugly functional yes but…… I also got spring belts from mc master Carr . My new turbine has round knurl on the pulley groove.  Sounds like another tool to make  I have some air hardening tool steel that is easy to heat treat  so I’ll look into tool making later if needed .
> Byron


What happened I meant o ring material not prong spell check is worse than I am . Sorry
Byron


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## KJE (Jan 11, 2022)

You can use the wire springs from lip type oil and grease seals. Cut them to length and screw the ends together they work slick.


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## Wheat47 (Jan 12, 2022)

Bentwings said:


> sometimes you can go to good will and find fine lays purse dirt cheap. By using a new exacto blade in a balsa stripper toool and carefulycuttingbghr purse apart you can reclaim fine letter for belting. I till save my old TIG welding gloves as they have very soft real leather. Being well used they even have worn belt look while doing a good job. We never treat the gloves so they are naturally smoothe. They are about $15 new sometimes at harbor freight otherwise any welding supply has them.you may have to have several splices in a belt but done nicely with super glue they work ok. Easy to fix too.
> Otherwise if you are using vee groove pulleys McMaster Carr has o ring material in a variety of hardness and materials  even automotive washer tubing might work. Have not tried it yet but it might depend on your pulley groove. The rubber will take to superglue pretty well.
> im undecided on pulleys. My new engine will have both flat belt and v belt capability.. I have spring belts now but I’ll need something.
> I may ve to McKee pulleys unless I can find some.
> ...


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## Rustkolector (Jan 12, 2022)

For the DIY belt makers here is an option...


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## Steamchick (Jan 13, 2022)

I have used spliced and glue o-rings for belts with V-pulleys on my little lathe successfully (2 ends cut at 45 degrees and superglued). (150W motor at 10.000rpm reduced to 300rpm at shaft).
On a boat with a steam engine, I used a bought "computer printer toothed belt and gears" - worked fine for the torque applied to the screw. I.E. 3/4" bore 3/4" stroke steam engine at 20psi, with 3:1 speed reduction from 2000rpm max. => max torque = 8.8lbs (on piston) x 0.38" (crank throw) x 3 (gear ratio)= 10.2lb.in. This applied at 1/4" radius was 40.8lbs. - if the screw stalled. But I doubt I ever realised the full torque applied from the engine. The Polyurethane belt has done all the runs I have made with this boat and shown no signs of wear. But I selected it for the speed and load against the manufacturer's tables, so that's all I expected. 
I also use vacuum cleaner and other small power tool drive belts for some generator installations with steam engines.
If you make a mill engine, with multiple grooves, you can use spliced cotton string (bind the splice with fine cotton thread seizing)  - as it nicely represents the ropes used to the various floors of the mill...
So do the sums and decide what strength of belt you need?
Cheers,
Ken


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## perko7 (Jan 14, 2022)

Shoe laces? Would be strong enough and hard-wearing, and the newer synthetic ones have a little bit of stretch in them too so would possibly make it easier to maintain tension. Not sure how you would join them. Superglue for the cotton ones, melted ends pressed together for the synthetic ones?


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## Wheat47 (Jan 15, 2022)

Someone mentioned tape decks and such.  I was reminded that I have two big ol' outdated copy
machines in the shop, under foot.  I got them for hauling them away, with the intension of 
taking them apart for the goodies inside.  This gives me new incentive to take them apart.


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## ytrose2 (Jan 16, 2022)

I have used urethane belting with success. My milling machine is driven by a 9.5mm round belt instead of a V-belt. I welded it together with my soldering iron. 

My method was to make a small plate with a tail, which is inserted into my iron after removing the normal copper tip. I fixed the iron in the vice, whilst holding the belt ends against each side of the plate. When the ends start to melt and squish out, I remove and simply press them together, and wait until the joint cools. All I then do is dress the join to remove the squished-out bit, and fit onto the machine.

The belt drives a 1HP motor, and has only broken once on the weld. For smaller diameter belts, I have made a jig from a hinge to keep the belt aligned during the heating and welding process.


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## Bentwings (Jan 20, 2022)

Steamchick said:


> I have used spliced and glue o-rings for belts with V-pulleys on my little lathe successfully (2 ends cut at 45 degrees and superglued). (150W motor at 10.000rpm reduced to 300rpm at shaft).
> On a boat with a steam engine, I used a bought "computer printer toothed belt and gears" - worked fine for the torque applied to the screw. I.E. 3/4" bore 3/4" stroke steam engine at 20psi, with 3:1 speed reduction from 2000rpm max. => max torque = 8.8lbs (on piston) x 0.38" (crank throw) x 3 (gear ratio)= 10.2lb.in. This applied at 1/4" radius was 40.8lbs. - if the screw stalled. But I doubt I ever realised the full torque applied from the engine. The Polyurethane belt has done all the runs I have made with this boat and shown no signs of wear. But I selected it for the speed and load against the manufacturer's tables, so that's all I expected.
> I also use vacuum cleaner and other small power tool drive belts for some generator installations with steam engines.
> If you make a mill engine, with multiple grooves, you can use spliced cotton string (bind the splice with fine cotton thread seizing)  - as it nicely represents the ropes used to the various floors of the mill...
> ...


I just got a micro gear belt. I got it on limited info maybe just to see if it would work  it looks pretty I have enough pulleys and belts to do a double reduction so I can test he belt strength . Somewhere I saw a spool of belt material 
Byron


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