# Longboy's "WEBSTER" I/C engine.



## Longboy

........Usualy full of hot air (Stirling), I wanted to sniff some I/C fumes this winter and selected Joe Webster's motor for my 1st build of this type. Over a 5 week period from first cuts to a running engine its now time to present to the forum. Highlights and deviation from plans are: oversize radiator, all ball bearings, fatter valve stems, 90 degree exhaust, VITON piston ring and a conventional delta shape counterweight. A carb (O/S .12) and 3 volt model engine coil obtained on EBAY. Motocraft points. A pleasure to build, I had just two setbacks in my approach with solutions at hand. I would recomend the Webster to anyone not quite sure of their abilitys as a novice.....like me! More photos and details to come!      [img[/IMG]http://
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## stevehuckss396

Very nice!

You have video of it running?


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## SAM in LA

Looks good.

Are you going to give us a build log of your work?

I enjoy reading about the journey to the running engine.

SAM


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## Longboy

Video is coming this weekend.


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## cfellows

Wow, nice engine! These scratch builts are my favorite engines. That knurled flywheel is a nice touch.

What is the model number of the points? Also, what kind of spark plug did you use? Finally, can you tell me more about the carburetor? I can't find anything on an O/C .12

I like it, a lot!

Chuck


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## gbritnell

Nice looking IC engine for a first build. The bearings should make it run much easier and you wont' be spitting oil all over the place. 
Chuck, I think what he meant to say was an OS .12 carb.
gbritnell


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## bearcar1

A fine looking engine LB. I can't wait to see the video and the pics of the build. (you did take pictures?) Also, what were the setbacks you mentioned?


BC1
Jim


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## deere_x475guy

Very nice build and can't wait to see the video...I guess this means I should get my butt in gear and finish mine...


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## Deanofid

Nice looking engine, Longboy. You did a fine job.
Will be watching for the video!

Dean


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## Longboy

......The carb is an OS brand (thanks gbritnel). Spark plug is a NKG CM-6. I do not have the pt.# for the points, acquired at an estate sale. Since most automotive points are close in size, you just need to put any points set rubbing block on the points cam with axle installed and mark the 2 screw slots onto the bearing block and drill/tap then.


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## Longboy

[youtube=425,350][/youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpxVSrYthM


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## 1hand

Nice runner. Thm: Pretty too.

Also like the vette and your wheather you have there.

Matt


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## robert1352

fantastic work!!!!!!!!!!! :bow:


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## deere_x475guy

Thanks for posting the video. It sure is a good runner and nice touch on the muffler.


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## black85vette

Very nice. Runs great. First Webster I have seen running. You may have inspired me to try this one. I was looking for my first IC engine and this looks like something that would fit the bill. Plus, I now know where to find someone that was successful. Thm:

Thanks for posting!

Edit; went back and watched the video again and I like the Vette also.


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## slick95

Nice :bow: :bow: :bow: 

Runs real smooth

Jeff


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## bearcar1

I like it! You must be located in the Southwest, I could not help but notice the yards are comprised of stones. Great runner, I especially like the knurling on the flywheel and the muffler and standpipe. Way too cool. Thm:


BC1
Jim


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## Longboy

black85vette  said:
			
		

> Very nice. Runs great. First Webster I have seen running. You may have inspired me to try this one. Thanks for posting!
> 
> Edit; went back and watched the video again and I like the Vette also.


       .......There's about 5 other Webster engines on "You Tube"! If my experiance gets others in gear I'm happy to tell the story.


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## Brian Rupnow

A very nice running engine.----Brian


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## Longboy

............I first made the valve block assembly thinking that would be the most difficult, leakage stopping me dead in my tracks. That went well so continue with the build.  The 1st problem came with the second piece attempted, the cylinder . The round on the left is a 2x3 in. of 12L14 steel. Drilled nice in the lathe however I couldn't get my Chinese special boring bar to bite. I have a 7x14 MicroLux lathe and never worked this size part in steel. In hindsight, if I had the apron centered better over the saddle, tightened a gib, maby! But since you have to use the longest of the boring bars in the set....... you have your cutting edge hagging way out in space and I believe I would of funneled the bore anyway.    Looking thru past posts on HMEM, I learned of DOM tubing for cylinder material and ordered some 1 1/8x7/8 in. The bore is smooth and ready to fit your piston outta the box.  An aluminum radiator is slip fitted over the DOM cyl. and epoxyed for a finished assembly.               
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    ........... Here is the piston/rod and cyl. after about a 40 minute run in. Had to see if the Viton O-ring was gonna live and it looks normal as does the scuffing on piston with no galls or questionable grooving (5% Marvel oil mix). The cyl. was cut down to 1 in. dia (per plan) with an narrow 1 1/8 in. dia. flange left at the point it bolts to the cyl. head. Its radiator was counterbored about .060 deeper than the length of the flange, slip fitted up to the flange and a 1x 1/16 inch plumbers O-ring drops over the flange, into the counterbore and the protruding remains of this O-ring provides the seal to the cyl head. This is Stirling engine practice and if this seal fails over time, there's always Viton to handle the heat!


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## radfordc

Longboy  said:
			
		

> .......There's about 5 other Webster engines on "You Tube"! If my experiance gets others in gear I'm happy to tell the story.



Well, you got me in gear. I finished my Webster several years ago and never could get it running. Tonight I tried again and guess what...it started and ran.


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## radfordc

Here is a fairly crappy video of it running.

http://www.youtube.com/v/fNe1Ga_Cad0&hl

Charlie


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## Longboy

.....Well Charlie, Looking good. I didn't know I had such influence on your closeted Webster........at least to the point it would just decide to start up!


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## Brian Rupnow

I find the part about the "radiator" being "epoxied " into place very interesting. A few years ago I was involved in a research project in which we were trying to draw heat away from specific areas on a die casting mold to make the molten aluminum in the mold harden in a pattern. We found that even with a hard press fit and no epoxy, that heat transfer across two different pieces of metal was very poor, as compared to heat transfer though a contiguous piece of metal.---And when we tried it using any kind of epoxy, it was even worse. We ended up getting our best thermal transfer properties when we used a special "heat transfer paste" which has a very high percentage of finely ground copper in its make up.---Brian


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## cfellows

Charlie, did you change something to get it running? Or did it just need to age for a while?  :big:

Chuck


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## cfellows

That's a real nice runner, Longboy. The OS carb really lets it idle down to a nice slow speed. Sounds just like a small Briggs!

Chuck


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## Longboy

Thanks Brian. The epoxy is applied with a Q-tip just beyond the flange and counterbore and just enough to hold the two parts together. Necessary to align the cyl. port with the radiator bolt pattern when installed to the head.  Epoxy as a fluid into the mold an easy experiment but unlikely its polymers would act as a "chill bar" as the copper metal compound would offer.


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## Longboy

Thanks Chuck, Theres a young man on "You Tube" with a Webster and he must have a 2-3 lbs. 5 inch flywheel on it..........he must have his idle down to 700!


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## rake60

Excellent build Longboy! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Congratulations on your runner as well Charlie.

Rick


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## Longboy

Thanks Rick, The story continues tommorrow!


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## radfordc

cfellows  said:
			
		

> Charlie, did you change something to get it running? Or did it just need to age for a while? :big:
> 
> Chuck



It felt like the O-ring was dragging too much. I cut the ring groove a few thousandths deeper and it felt much better. After that it was just a matter of getting the carb adjusted.

Charlie


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## Brian Rupnow

Where does one get plans for one of these "Websters"????


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## solver

Link to Webster plans: http://home.comcast.net/~webster_engines/Plans.zip

And bit of background, how the Webster was born: http://home.comcast.net/~webster_engines/


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## Brian Rupnow

Thanks---Very well done plans.---Brian


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## Longboy

Refer back to the last photo of post#19....."Why the offset on the cylinder Longboy"?  On Joe's web page describing his engine, He mentioned its needs for more cooling area, an easy solution.                         
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  .......Two ways to achieve this would be 1) cut down the Websters dog leg frame adjacent to the cylinder another 1/4 inch to clear a 2 inch dia radiator.  2) offset away from the frame .  With one of the outside jaws providing the offset to the material, I "almost" got enough clearance.                      
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




        ........after the boring with the same offset another intermediate cut of .020 had to come from the outer diameter. A notch also had to be cut into the radiators face to clear the valve block.


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## Longboy

.........It was mentioned the flywheel has been knurled. This was totally accidental and not my planning as it already existed. Here is the source!                 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




     A "spare" that was never used on a 1/8 scale model of my Willys CJ-3A done in class when I learned machine tools and welding. Already drilled 5/16, a hub had to be made for it. Drilled and not reamed 5/16th. the hub was aligned with the flywheel with a transfer punch and four #2-56 screws hold them together. There is no discernible runout.


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## cfellows

Making a tire tread with a knurling tool is a good idea!

Chuck


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## Longboy

.........In troubleshooting my engines start-up problems, I found that after TDC on the intake stroke that the rocker arm was lifting the exhaust valve a hair. I couldn't clear it with the rocker adjustment screw to my satisfaction. Filed the cam ramp at the appropriate point and then the engine responded!                
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




                Engine valves..........stainless?.......drillrod?........how 'bout a hardware grade 5 bolt!     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Starting with a 3 1/2 inch long 5/16th....."Isn't that like taking a railroad spike to make a toothpike Longboy"? Well you have 2 1/2 inches of unthreaded shank to chuck up on and to cut your stem dia. to finished length. A center in the tail stock supported the soon to be valve head. The #60 hole for the spring retainer pin was drilled before the shank turn down and the valve head wasn't faced to remove the grade marking.


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## Longboy

..........I was getting some fuel puddling hanging from the exhaust valve block segment in initial run in. Joe's notes say if the 3 blocks are square enough no gasket needed then. Ordinary Scotch tape between the segments is now the invisible seal. The black object is the original Delrin carb to valve block manifold. I had concerns that it would get too hot and changed to brass which with a brass air horn intake is more show worthy.


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## radfordc

Longboy  said:
			
		

> The black object is the original Delrin carb to valve block manifold. I had concerns that it would get too hot and changed to brass



Good thinking. My engine uses a Perry carb that has a molded plastic body. After a few minutes of running the plastic was starting to melt.

Charlie


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## Longboy

I looked back on the material data for Delrin at "Online Metals" and it said Delrin good in air maximum to 180F. A pretty close margin in engine op temps.............and brass still looks better!


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## Longboy

You get a grin completing a successful model. About 10 days now with almost a pint of fuel thru her running well and no more troubleshooting a loose flywheel on the axle. Some of the comments in this post seemed to have drawn others to considering the Webster as either a 1st build or as an addition to their collections. For all, especially those with modest skills and machinery in the shop.........I got a feeling more Websters will be born. Thanks Joe for offering up your plans on the web.Thm:      Dave.


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## serhat

Hello Longboy,

Your engine looks nice.I am about to finish mine and need your advise on the exhaust pipe you made.What is that aluminium part at the end of brass pipe? A silencer?
Can you provide the details.

Thanks


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## gbritnell

Dave, you get two feelings when you complete and engine, one is the fact that you built it and second is when it starts and runs. Great work.
gbritnell


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## Longboy

......thanks gbritnell, I feel the sentiments  and now it looks like another Webster is coming from serhat. That is a silencer over the straight pipe. Exhaust exits out of the pipe inline with a hole on top of silencer. Under the silencer there are also holes drilled in the pipe and some of the exhaust blows out and straight down exiting the underside. It is more for "eye candy" rather than a more effective way to attenuate any noise as the majority exits out the top. Would this be your first I/C engine serhat?   Dave.           
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




      underside view............the silencer is made with a brass baffle pressed and epoxied to the roof of the aluminum body. Four holes in the baffle line up with holes in pipe. The silencer drops upon but is not fastened to pipe.


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## GailInNM

Nice build Dave. Congratulations. Thm: Thm:
Gail in NM


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## rake60

Beautiful build Dave! Thm:

Rick


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## Maryak

Dave,

Congratulations on a Great Build. :bow: th_wav

Best Regards
Bob


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## cfellows

Great looking engine, Dave. Congratulations!

Chuck


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## slick95

Very Nice Build, great looking engine Dave. Congrats :bow: :bow: :bow:

Jeff


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## serhat

Thanks Dave,

Yes correct.This is my first IC engine and I am trying to apply the same exhaust system from yours. I have build several steam engines,both from castings and scrap,you may see them at 

serhatece.blogspot.com

The picture of my webster engine is attached.


Brgds


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## metalmad

my webster
Pete


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## metalmad

would u believe that is the best of three pics i took lol
one day i gotta get a better camera :-\
pete


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## Longboy

Thanks for the acolades this week! Some more "international" fans of the WEBSTER showing their stuff here too. wEc1 .....When and if you are able to, try to get videos of your engines on "You Tube" sometime.  Dave.    PS.  I got an antique digital camera from 2002 Pete. It'll have to do!


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## Longboy

Just a couple of add ons to the Webster since completion. An extension radiator surrounding the spark plug, a new Traxxis .15 carburetor, and a "gas powered flashlight" ......rather a generator powering one brite white LED lamp.        
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










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## zeeprogrammer

Nice Dave!
Very crisp clean lines. It's a beauty.


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## Brian Rupnow

How does that carburetor work, Longboy? are you happy with it? I am soon going to have to buy one for my Webster, and I realy have no idea what to buy.--Also, what are you running for an ignition coil? I was going to use a 12 volt automobile coil and a 12 volt battery out of my boat, but what you have appears to be much smaller and more portable, and appears to run off two D cell batteries?---Brian


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## gbritnell

Very nice Dave. I like the little generator and light, nice touch.
gbritnell


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## Longboy

The Traxxis carb works well as did the O/S carb I used originally. The difference being I can set the mixture on the Traxxis with thumb & forefinger where as the O/S needed a screwdriver. Not a big deal cuzz once set should be good when using the same fuel but definitely easier to optimize a running engine with a finger knob. The coil is an Aero Spark brand model engine coil from the '50's when model airplanes had point fired sparkplugs. They are 3 volt and I use a pair of "C" cell alkalines for power. The coils come up on (where else)....EBAY regularly but not in great quantities! Wilco and Modelectric are other brands I see on Ebay and battery cases available here also. Easily transportable from engine to engine or intergrated concealed or exposed on the Webster base mounting board a couple inches longer it sure beats an auto 12V coil and a motorcycle battery. A "turn key" alternative would be the S/S Machine & Engineering complete I/C engine kit for $100 or its various components for less $$$. Roy Sholl, the proprietor, will spend time with you on the phone for your needs. You can see this system on my Breisch hit miss engine at "Longboy4" on YouTube.


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