# BAZMAK-A dedicated indexing head for the Sieg mill



## bazmak (Aug 31, 2016)

My next project,still in my head and on the back of a cigarette packet
The manual RT I made works well and I use it a lot but the indexing is limited
I thought I would make some thing better and maybe have a go at cutting gears,just for experience ,nothing in particular at this moment.So its build as you go and we will see what pops out at the end.Build has just started so any input would be most welcome


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## DJP (Aug 31, 2016)

I made something similar to cut a new gear for a small machine. The chuck held a stub shaft and blank while the other end held the original worn out gear. It was a simple task to move the old gear one tooth, drop in an indexing blade and lock the shaft before cutting a new tooth in the blank. I recall it was 42 teeth at a 30% angle so you might consider another variable as not all gears with be straight cut.

The gear was for my wife's Braun kitchen machine which was 40 years old (wedding gift) and replacement gears were not available. I cut a new gear and the Braun machine runs again but to be sure I cut two more for at least 120 years of future service. This one project justified the milling machine.


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## Wizard69 (Aug 31, 2016)

Wow!   Nice start.    I might suggest a little niter all bracing in the steel tubing.   Even a relatively thin plate welded in, will make the tubing much stiffer.


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## bazmak (Sep 1, 2016)

thought about bracing amongst other things,early days yet,its suck it and see at the moment.Just started on a holding collar and the first indexing plate
Will keep you posted


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## goldstar31 (Sep 1, 2016)

My compliments and I made up something similar but using my Myford 3 jaw independent but to cut the 1" spiral vertical column on my Quorn Tool and Cutter Grinder. Perhaps my notes to James this AM suggests an alternative. 

To get twice as many 'divisions' one makes  an alternative detent to utilise the peaks and troughs in the gear teeth.
Might I add a further suggestion which may be desirable and that is a clamp to hold the work. You could knock a tooth out of a cast iron gear! 

So I look forward to an interesting post.

Regards

Norman


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## ShopShoe (Sep 1, 2016)

bazmak,

I'm following along. I'm very interested in your engineering process as you work through this.

--ShopShoe


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## RobWilson (Sep 1, 2016)

ShopShoe said:


> bazmak,
> 
> I'm following along. I'm very interested in your engineering process as you work through this.
> 
> --ShopShoe



Me to :thumbup:


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## bazmak (Sep 2, 2016)

Bit more progress.I decided against using change gears to index
and decided to make a no of division plates.I made a holding collar
keyed to the shaft and the first divisin plate from 6mm thk x 130 dia
it cleaned up in the lathe to nom 5mm thk.Using my RT already predrilled
for 60 divs I drilled and reamed 60 holes 4mm dia on nom 115 pcd
Now making a start on a sliding detent pi housing.I think I can get 3 or 4 
rows of holes.Thinking of 56,54,48 for starters.Any ad

vice ???


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## bazmak (Sep 2, 2016)

lost photos,try again


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## bazmak (Sep 3, 2016)

Finished detent housing.It works well ,need to harden the silver steel pin
at a later date,but it locates well on 60 holes at 125 pcd.I can get a max of
4 rows so have to make a few calcs for best choice.How to make an index 
with a non functioning head.Think I will have to mark out paper strips
and use my RT


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## Blogwitch (Sep 3, 2016)

Lovely piece of work Baz.

That is one of the easiest to make division plate indexers that I have seen being made.

Shame you don't live a little closer, I could have knocked out those extra holes for you in no time.

Nice one

John


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## bazmak (Sep 4, 2016)

Thanks John,i have taken the long way round and the first plate is finished
I must say even I am impressed.4 rows @ 60,56,54 and 44 it all works well
Will now turn my thoughts to the tailstock.First thoughts were to fit a housing
to accept MT2 but on second thoughts I only need a dead centre.No need for anything else (Revolving ctre,chuck etc) unless anyone tells me differently
Maybe a half dead cenre and adjustment to take up the slack.
Also I did not think it was necessary for a lock,because of the positive detent pin but some locations have a couple of thou play from the pin so a lock may be an advantage.Also don't know if I need it but someone mentioned to stiffen the tube with a gusset,i want to avoid any welding now everything is square and aligned to a couple of thou so may use bolted fixings.Any comments from others would be most appreciated.


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## DJP (Sep 4, 2016)

I would add a lock to the shaft if we are voting. My indexing was on a worn gear to cut a replica and the lock was absolutely required. After a lot of use when parts may get sloppy a lock on your shaft will ensure repeatable results, in my opinion.


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## bazmak (Sep 4, 2016)

Thank you ,decision made,a lock it shall be


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## Foozer (Sep 4, 2016)

Was looking over your past threads, you like making stuff - noticed a theme, you like triangulation and/or doing operations in line with the hold down clamps.

Box tube is stout, gussets? Naw, perhaps tho, a third hold attachment point, external left side to pick up the center rail.


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## Blogwitch (Sep 4, 2016)

All you need now is a half a hole locating pin as well as your normal one, that would effectively give you double the number of holes. the pin would need to be around half the diameter of the pin lower than the main pin and located in the correct position in another part of the slot.

I have seen it done on gearwheels, where you have the lock fit over a gear tooth, with another that fits down into the valley between two teeth, so you use the over the tooth first, then the valley one and so on, one after another, so doubling the number of indexes on a gear.

Just hope that hasn't confused you.


John


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## bazmak (Sep 4, 2016)

Have been thinking doubling the no of pitches ,blogwitch by drilling say 2 sets of
50 on different pcds alternately to get the extra no on the plate.
With the stiffening,the wall thickness is 6mm and for the work it will be doing I think will be adequate.However I will make a bolt on gusset to improve ridgitity
and also I have in mind extra holding down bolts.If I drill thru on centreline
the head can bolt down as is with the 12 sq key in the central table slot
which will give me a max dia of gear I can cut,bringing the headstock towards the operator to the front slot will increase the max dia gear I can cut by approx. 70mm.
Will post a better explanation when I check it out.Its all in my head at the moment.All design mods are not necessarily needed, but it keeps me interested in life


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## bazmak (Sep 6, 2016)

Made the lock from a piece of 16mm thk alum,screwfixed inside the headstock
to the top with a locking shaft and plastic star knob.Unobtrusive an

d works well


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## Nick Hulme (Sep 6, 2016)

Nice! I like the sliding mount for the indexing plunger. 

 - Nick


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## dennisa49 (Sep 6, 2016)

Good day Bazz,
Your work is always top quality, a prodigious talent.
Beautiful machining.
Well done. 

May I ask is your mill an X2?
Regards,
Dennis


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## bazmak (Sep 6, 2016)

Its the sx2lf Fixed column,R8 quill and larger table.Have done a no of mods under bazmak


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## bazmak (Sep 7, 2016)

Tailstock centre finished.Gussets and a few bits and pieces
before takeoff


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## bazmak (Sep 8, 2016)

Gussets fitted and trial first use.Locking knob could do with being a bit larger
and will try to improve the detent housing by removing some of the play
Few more items to make before I start cutting gears


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## Foozer (Sep 8, 2016)

That puppy is coming to life . . . Just a half-cent item - Wouldn't a stud loc-tite'd into the clamp serve better - With the mud hands I have, the repetitive loosening and tightening of a bolt into Al returns the reward of galled and/or pulled threads.

Made some T-Nuts from 7075-T6 which is tough stuff in it's own right, but having that nagging feeling of pulling threads, stuck Heli-Coil thread inserts into them . . .


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## bazmak (Sep 8, 2016)

Yes you are probably correct.Room for improvements all round
The stud is screwed in nom 30mm of thread so I am not too worried
I do need a little more ummff with a larger knob but the clamp is necessary
still have a couple of thou play in the detent housing which I will try remedy
Have a couple of tools,jigs and fixtures to make then I will try making a 
couple of gears


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## bazmak (Sep 10, 2016)

I made a 16mm dia mandrel fitted with a 4mm x 80mm lg key
Fitting a key, by that brought back memories.It was a perfect fit
on a lathe change gear,and like a fool I thought it would be the 
same fit on all the gears WRONG.Those chinese.Had a pleasant hour
fitting all the gears to my master keyed shaft.Also made a couple 
of clamping collars.Almost ready to go.I plan to make an alum blank
set up on the mandrel and finish turn in the lathe,the whole setup can then be
transferred to the index head in the mill.I plan to make a test gear in alum
using my homemade cutter. I have ordered 4 involute cutters 4,5,6, & 7
then I plan to rework the spare change gears from the old lathe to fit the SC4


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## bmac2 (Sep 12, 2016)

Hi Bazmak
Your indexing head is looking great. Ive been following along here hoping to pick up some tips on cutting gears. Summer is wrapping up here so Ill be able to get into the shop again soon and finish getting tooled up.
I have basically the same mill and in your last pic that looks like a gas strut.  If so could post a couple of pictures of it. Ive been looking at a couple of mods to replace that damnable spring.


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## bazmak (Sep 12, 2016)

Yes I did the mod.It was much easier than I thought.The struts come in pairs
300mm travl and about 150nm 15kg.Single tapped hole at the bottom and a bracket at the top.They come with the 2 ball joints.Taking okk the old spring assy made room for fitting a vernier scale to rthe z axis.I did a thread Bazmak-fitting a vernier to the Z axis.Will resurrect for your info


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## bazmak (Nov 22, 2016)

I will resurrect this thread as I have started a mod to give me the option
of direct indexing and/or worm and wheel.The idea being that removing the index plt and detent housing only involves 2 screws and I can then fit
the W/W assy.Trying to have both assembled at the same time was too complicated.The worm is be M20 as I have a tap and can buy commercial  allthread.The biggest wheel I can fit is nom 100mm dia which I can cut
with 120t,this will give me 3o per rev.Rather than plts I plan a dial divided
into say 30 to give me 0.1 degrees.Still mostly in my head.Picture tell the 
story so far. TBC


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## Nick Hulme (Nov 22, 2016)

You have just got to make a nice bronze worm, that wheel looks far too nice to run with threaded bar! 

 - Nick


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## Hopper (Nov 22, 2016)

Awesome work, mate. Looks just like a bought 'un.


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## bazmak (Nov 22, 2016)

Good idea with a bronze worm.Will get this going first then maybe
build op a brass worm on a steel shaft and single point screw cut
for the exercise.As usual its flying by the seat of pants,no drawing
just ideas that hopefully develope


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## bazmak (Nov 24, 2016)

All finished and works well.Made and fitted a graduated dial that gets me down
to 1 minute of arc,say 0.02 of 1 degree
Made and fitted a brass swivel bush to enable the worm to be swung in to the wheel,hand tight reduces backlash to virtual zero
Machined up the allthread.Made and fitted a brkt with a 10mm shouldered skate bearing.Reworked an old handwheel from the scrap bin,and made and fitted a graduated dial devided into 60.Each full rev is 3o
3 main divisions are 1o and each divided into 20 or 0.05 degrees 
Works well no backlash just need to iron out the stiffness
Remove 3 screws to take off the full assy and 2 screws to refit the dividing plate.Cant wait to try it out by cutting a gear with an oddball n

o of teeth


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## bazmak (Apr 7, 2017)

Had a PM from Steve saying he wished to make the indexer or RT or similar
Ressurected for accept to photos etc If you ask questions on this thread
you can keep it going and we can help you thru your build.Will also reopen
the RT thread and replace missing photos Regards Barry


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## h7eh7e (Apr 8, 2017)

Well done.


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## almarghi (Jun 16, 2017)

A very nice work indeed!!


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