# Another Lathe Selection Thread



## Danuzzo (Mar 10, 2020)

I must preface this by saying that I have never built a model engine; but, I am very interested in the prospect of doing so. I want a lathe to start; however, I am basically going back and forth on which to buy. I need your help. I done extensive research on this forum and others, and am still at a loss.

I do have some machine shop experience from many years past so I do kind of know how to operate a lathe. Of course, I do want a lathe capable of building "small" model engines, including  those that would require strict tolerances. The question then becomes what is a "small" model engine. Any help in identifying "small" by approx. dimensions would be helpful, particularly with regard to piston and cylinder dimensions.

I am interested in the 7x, 8x and 9x sizes. The only added interest in the 8x and 9x sizes is based on the weight differences which might possibly(??) be helpful with tighter tolerances. Heck, I am even considering a Sherline or a Taig, if those would be adequate. But, please note that I want to also be able to cut steel and cast iron on whatever I decide upon.

Help would be appreciated. Feel free to ask me anything you need to help me


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## Rod Cole (Mar 10, 2020)

I'm expecting any day now, a truck with a new Acra 14 - 40. it took a while to decide, I just got tired of old high end, partly worn out, American machines~


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## Danuzzo (Mar 10, 2020)

Rod Cole said:


> I'm expecting any day now, a truck with a new Acra 14 - 40. it took a while to decide, I just got tired of old high end, partly worn out, American machines~



Congratulations.


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## Rod Cole (Mar 10, 2020)

One thing to watch for, as the lathe gets bigger, the spindle speeds offered get slower. This forum is not about production, so we might not need all that much speed, but we do need to remember, in order to get the "feet per minute" of small diameter parts  in the range of cutting speed, we need some rpm~


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## Danuzzo (Mar 10, 2020)

Rod Cole said:


> One thing to watch for, as the lathe gets bigger, the spindle speeds offered get slower. This forum is not about production, so we might not need all that much speed, but we do need to remember, in order to get the "feet per minute" of small diameter parts  in the range of cutting speed, we need some rpm~



Thank's. I am more inclined toward the smaller lathes for mobility and space considerations. But, I still don't know.


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## Brian Hein (Mar 10, 2020)

Danuzzo said:


> Thank's. I am more inclined toward the smaller lathes for mobility and space considerations. But, I still don't know.



I'm just going to chime in with a picture of my lathe. I searched for almost a year till I decided to import this from China. I had a very tight budget so my options were very limited. This is an 8 x 16 model. I has some limitations since its only about 100 lbs. It will take a bit of work to get it usable. You're basically buying a set of castings that require alot of tuning and adjusting so its usable, however, ther is lots of info on youtube to perform the needed tasks. I've had mine for just over a year and although I still find places it needs attention, it is quite usable.
Not sure if this helps or not


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## Danuzzo (Mar 10, 2020)

Brian Hein said:


> I'm just going to chime in with a picture of my lathe. I searched for almost a year till I decided to import this from China. I had a very tight budget so my options were very limited. This is an 8 x 16 model. I has some limitations since its only about 100 lbs. It will take a bit of work to get it usable. You're basically buying a set of castings that require alot of tuning and adjusting so its usable, however, ther is lots of info on youtube to perform the needed tasks. I've had mine for just over a year and although I still find places it needs attention, it is quite usable.
> Not sure if this helps or not



Thank's. Looks like a very nice lathe. How does it do on steel or cast iron?


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## Brian Hein (Mar 10, 2020)

Danuzzo said:


> Thank's. Looks like a very nice lathe. How does it do on steel or cast iron?



I have turned cast iron with ease. I made a ER32 collet chuck for the lathe from a piece of 4140 shaft and that pushed the lathe to its limits. As long as you have the time to take small cuts (some material .25 mm at a time) it works well. I really like the variable speed control to adjust as you cut.


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## Danuzzo (Mar 10, 2020)

Thank's again, Brian.


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 11, 2020)

My suggestion is to buy anything that allows the biggest precision dimensions e.g. cylinders you have in mind, and buy a TAIG or similar for the small stuff where you need revs for the cutting speed. For the bigger stuff you may find that precision is less of an issue e.g with flywheels. Whenever this occurs you can either outsource or buy a cheap larger capacity lathe.


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## Danuzzo (Mar 11, 2020)

clockworkcheval said:


> My suggestion is to buy anything that allows the biggest precision dimensions e.g. cylinders you have in mind, and buy a TAIG or similar for the small stuff where you need revs for the cutting speed. For the bigger stuff you may find that precision is less of an issue e.g with flywheels. Whenever this occurs you can either outsource or buy a cheap larger capacity lathe.



Thank's. One of my questions would be the typical size of a "small" engine's cylinder.


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## awake (Mar 11, 2020)

I'm lucky enough to have two lathes, a 12-1/2 x 30 Cincinnati TrayTop (around 70 years old, 1800 lbs.) - well worn, but still can do a lot of work, even including some surprisingly small parts (particularly since I use HSS tooling almost exclusively).

But I also have an import 7 x 14 that I picked up for $50 - how could I say no to that? Of course, the reason it was for sale cheap was that it had been partially damaged in a fire that messed up the motor and controller and change gears, but fortunately the structure was okay, and once I repaired and fixed it up, it is capable of very precise work. I use this for some of the really tiny stuff where I need high RPM.

The cylinder for my one-and-only build to date, a Webster, is .875" ID x 1.25" OD in its largest section (most of it is 1.075" OD) - but that is just the cylinder, not counting the cooling fins. I made those out of a separate piece of aluminum, 1.75" OD. With either of these, I could have done them on the 7 x 14 ... but I'm very glad I was able to do them instead on the TrayTop!

On the 7 x 14, a major issue would be that the material could not fit down into the chuck; it would all have to "hang out" from the chuck jaws. This reduces rigidity, which in turn further reduces the DOC that is possible or wise to take with each pass, and it may lead to problems with having enough room for the tailstock with drill chuck and drill - and with that in mind, if you go with a 7 x machine, make sure it is as long as you can get, at least x 14; whatever you do, do not get a 7 x 1o, because you will have a very hard time ever drilling anything!

If you can only have one lathe, and it needs to be semi-portable / bench-top, I would suggest looking in the 9 x 20 or 10 x 22-24 range - starting to get large enough to handle the larger parts more easily, but still small enough to place on a bench top. That said, I have no personal experience with any machines in this size, so I can't comment on which ones would be most worth looking at ...


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## clockworkcheval (Mar 11, 2020)

Most models can be built with a piston dia of 25 mm/ 1", what even a TAIG or like will handle. But there is no real alternative to flipping thru models on internet, roadshows or musea, decide what you like and what you are going to build (may not be the same) and size your machinetools accordingly. Beware that tooling of a lathe or mill can equal easily the cost of the base machine. So probably the possibilities will have more impact on your choice than size. Possibilities as precision, threadcutting, bore dia of spindle, dia at headstock, possibility of copying a profile or cone, ease of conversion to CNC.


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## Rickus (Mar 11, 2020)

Just want to ask if you are located near South Louisiana.  I have a HF 9x20 Lathe, HF mini mill, and a Craftsman Atlas lathe sitting on the shelves as display items.  Each works but need a little cleaning to remove the dust and I can tell you what mechanical is needed.  Anyway, let me know if you are close.


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## bluejets (Mar 11, 2020)

What may seem perfect for turning pistons, barrels etc. is , in many instances too small to spin a casting or whatever for a crankcase.
If not on the first engine in this instance, then for any future project.
Always think ahead.
Accuracy of any lathe is not so much in the structure of the machine but rather the "nut at the wheel".


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## Danuzzo (Mar 11, 2020)

Rickus said:


> Just want to ask if you are located near South Louisiana.  I have a HF 9x20 Lathe, HF mini mill, and a Craftsman Atlas lathe sitting on the shelves as display items.  Each works but need a little cleaning to remove the dust and I can tell you what mechanical is needed.  Anyway, let me know if you are close.



Thank's, but I am nowhere near there.


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## Niels Abildgaard (Mar 12, 2020)

I have had a 7*12  lathe and with some rebuilding it is astonnishing


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## Danuzzo (Mar 12, 2020)

Niels, was that your lathe in the video? Never seen anything like that one. What was it, and what did you do to it for rebuild?

EDIT: I answered my own questions by going directly to Youtube. Nice rebuild. I checked out one of your other Youtube video on the description.


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## Niels Abildgaard (Mar 12, 2020)

There is a more detailed describtion of the rebuild here and more pictures

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=141922


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## accelo (Mar 12, 2020)

I am a fan of the Sherline.  I purchased one used on a whim.  I have found it very capable and fun to use. 
I also had one of the China imports a 7" X 12" I believe.  I hated it.  Plastic handles and handles that ran into each other.
One couldn't drill a hole it a part that was more than 2 inches long as I ran out of tail stock room.
I found if one purchases the extra length bed the Sherline was plenty long to do anything I wanted to. 
Check out Luiz Ally's YouTube channel for examples of what can be done on the Sherlines.
Rick


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## BobsModels (Mar 12, 2020)

I have been at this since the early 70’s ie over 45 years.  My first lathe was a brand new Atlas 6” loaded with accessories.  It turned out lots of parts.   You state you are just thinking about getting into model engineering.  You will have untold number of hours of fun building and when the first one runs, make sure someone captures your face with a photo.

After 45 plus years of building steam engines, live steam locomotives, etc let me give you just a little food for thought.  Currently I have a very well equipped shop.  Like me at the start I am sure your budget is limited.   You need to plan for more than just a lathe.  If you want to build a gas engine or a small steam engine (I recommend a small steam engine first, a wobbler, built from bar stock not castings).  You will likely spend an equal amount of time on a milling machine and lathe in the construction.  Yes a lathe can be equipped to do milling but with some pain.  I do not want you discouraged by what it takes to mill on a lathe.  A nice drill press will also be handy, although depending on the mill if it has a movable quill you could use it (Sherline does not, but there are ways to easily drill on it ie head horizontal).

You will spend about an equal amount of money on tooling as you spend for the mill and lathe.  So if purchasing used try and get as much tooling as possible.

You talk about holding strict tolerances; the machinist holds the strict tolerances not the machine.  http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html. 

With my Sherline I have made some really small parts to fit together.  I mean boring a .094 hole, which is actually large.  My granddaughters turned down a part for a Stirling engine on a Sherline .323 Diameter 1” long, with a .008 wall.  Just takes practice; they had been building engines for about 10 years.  You want to be able to cut steel.  One demo at NAMES on a Sherline lathe was chucking up a .750 diameter piece of steel, turning a short section down to , I think .020 or maybe .010, faster than you would think  possible and then drilling a .010 or .005  hole in the end, just not sure which OD.  Not to sell the Sherline but lots of easy setups. 

Just so you know my current high use lathe is 12” Clausing 5904 and I split time between a Bridgeport and Clausing 8530 mill.  When parts get below .100 I use a smaller lathe so I can get my nose down and see the part without a 6” or 10” chuck flying around!

One last word of advice, do not delay waiting for the perfect machine.  Find a decent one and start making chips.  Over time you will upgrade and end up with some really nice machines.

Welcome to one of the most addictive hobbies I know of.  After the first one runs you will not be able to wait for the next one.

Bob


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## Danuzzo (Mar 13, 2020)

I am certainly looking forward to getting started. I have a drill press, and am trying to decide on a lathe. I would like to make something very simple and from scrap metal (mostly steel) I have. Any suggestions on where to start?


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## awake (Mar 13, 2020)

A compressed-air wobbler engine would be my recommendation.


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## RM-MN (Mar 14, 2020)

Danuzzo said:


> I am certainly looking forward to getting started. I have a drill press, and am trying to decide on a lathe. I would like to make something very simple and from scrap metal (mostly steel) I have. Any suggestions on where to start?



I'd say start at the beginning.  What experience do you have with a lathe?  Do you have a grinder to make your own lathe bits from tool steel blanks?  Although my first though is that you want a big lathe so it can handle big parts, along with that size comes danger.  A small lathe will be limited in what it can do but starting small can be safer.  You will also by necessity learn how to sharpen your tool bits properly since the lathe won't have the power to cut with a poorly sharpened one.  I have a Harbor Freight mini lathe.  With that I had to learn about the tool bit sharpness but also learned about the parts of the lathe as it needed to be disassembled to improve the "accuracy" as it was not set up to the best possible accuracy.  Once familiar with that, moving to a bigger lathe will be in order as there is limited capability with such a small lathe.


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## Danuzzo (Mar 14, 2020)

RM-MN said:


> I'd say start at the beginning.  What experience do you have with a lathe?  Do you have a grinder to make your own lathe bits from tool steel blanks?  Although my first though is that you want a big lathe so it can handle big parts, along with that size comes danger.  A small lathe will be limited in what it can do but starting small can be safer.  You will also by necessity learn how to sharpen your tool bits properly since the lathe won't have the power to cut with a poorly sharpened one.  I have a Harbor Freight mini lathe.  With that I had to learn about the tool bit sharpness but also learned about the parts of the lathe as it needed to be disassembled to improve the "accuracy" as it was not set up to the best possible accuracy.  Once familiar with that, moving to a bigger lathe will be in order as there is limited capability with such a small lathe.



I do have some machining experience on a lathe, mill and even surface grinder from many years ago. These were the full size machines in machine shops.  I do have a couple of bench grinders with which I sharpen drills and wood lathe tools. I also have a couple of lathe tool bits left over from the day that I sharpened then. Of course, I would be extremely rusty.

Unfortunately, right now, I don't have room for a large lathe, not that I think I will ever need one. If I do get heavily involved  in the hobby, I may invest in a slightly larger  quality bench lathe.

I am looking at the Harbor Freight mini 7x12 as a prospect. Which one do you have, and do you like it?


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## RM-MN (Mar 14, 2020)

i have a 7X14 Harbor Freight lathe.  Even that length of bed is limiting with the tailstock which I use a lot.  I have mine in my basement where I have a heated space for working in the winter.  I also have an older (from about 30 years ago, bought new) 10X24 that I can use in our short summers and make repairs of farm machinery.  The 7X14 has taught me a lot about the use of the bigger lathe, mostly about sharpening the lathe bits and tightening everything that can be tightened.  For instance, the bigger lathe had lots of backlash on the cross slide when I inherited it.  Now it has very little.

One of the things I missed in school when learning about the lathe was how sharp to keep the lathe bits.  Now I keep a diamond hone handy to touch up the bits as necessary.  I also have a diamond wheel on the bench grinder in case I want to work with a carbide.


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## awake (Mar 14, 2020)

Danuzzo, I will echo RM-MN's concerns about the length of the 7 x 12 machine you are looking at. I have the Grizzly 7 x 14, and it is barely long enough to do some of the things you will want to do. You might look at Little Machine Shop to see if they have an extended-bed version, or consider an 8 x machine with more length.


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## Bill Lawson (Mar 16, 2020)

Jet makes a nice 9-19


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## Danuzzo (Mar 16, 2020)

Bill Lawson said:


> Jet makes a nice 9-19



Jet has good products. I have 2 of their wood lathes. The one you reference is a little out of my price range for my first metal lathe. Is that what you have. If so, can you tell me a little about it. Thanks.


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## awake (Mar 16, 2020)

From what I can tell, Jet seems to be at the upper end of the quality range for the smaller import lathes; Grizzly would be a close second ... Harbor Freight would be well down the list. But my sense is that you can get a lemon from any of them, and you can get a winner from any of them. And of course, there are half-a-million other "brands" selling essentially the same Sieg designs, which may or may not be made in the same factory!


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## Danuzzo (Mar 16, 2020)

Awake, what kind of tolerances can you hold with you Grizzly? How is the spindle boss/shoulder runout, if any?


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## awake (Mar 16, 2020)

With the particular Grizzly that I have, a 7 x 14, I can hold as tight a tolerance as I want, .0005" or better. I've never measured the runout, but certainly the run out of parts mounted in the chuck is near-zero - which is one reason I use this lathe for second-op, since the 3-jaw chuck on my old TrayTop is well-worn and has a fair bit of runout.


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## Bill Lawson (Mar 16, 2020)

The jet 9-19 was just over my price comfort level. However, it is a long term purchase. There are a few things that I didn’t care for. #1 is that faceplate/4jaw chuck (boat anchor). #2 no tee slot in the compound. I had to modify it to accept a wedge type QC holder.
The 9-19 is not a heavy duty industrial machine, but it is a very nice accurate machine.


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## Danuzzo (Mar 16, 2020)

Thank's, Bill.


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## mfrick (Mar 16, 2020)

Hello to all I have had my new 14 x 40 Grizzly lathe going on three months and I am very happy with it.  Its very accurate and very solid.  I would purchase again if I need to. The over all fit and finish of the machine is very good. I have done some pretty heavy work on it with  zero problems. So overall nice machine and I'm happy.

Mike


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## Shopgeezer (Mar 17, 2020)

I have a simple King 10X22 lathe and as I get in to the hobby and learn more there are a few things I really want. The main thing is electronic speed control. Changing the belts on the King is a long and frustrating job. So I just leave it on a spindle speed of 520 and do everything with that. Way too slow for aluminum and way too fast for reaming. The other thing is an over centre release on the tail stock. On mine you have to tighten a bolt on the base. Drives me to tears when drilling.

As with most smaller lathes the saddle is driven by the lead screw for power feed. Much better to have a separate drive for the power feed. There is a system in which there is s long slot in the lead screw along it’s entire length. This slot is engaged with a gear in the saddle and used to drive power feed without closing the half nuts. Clever design and saves wear on the lead screw. This is the lathe I wish I had now. It has all these features including power cross feed. 

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/lathe-10in-x22in-metal-with-digital-readout.html


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## Danuzzo (Mar 17, 2020)

Shopgeezer, the Busy Bee looks like a nice set-up.


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## Shopgeezer (Mar 17, 2020)

So nice they are sold out.


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## awake (Mar 17, 2020)

How about one of these 8.5 x 20 machines:

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1271799306


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## Danuzzo (Mar 17, 2020)

That would be a really nice one, awake.


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## Shopgeezer (Mar 17, 2020)

That one looks way better than the 7X14 lathes. Nice little lathe. No gearbox so you would have to change gears to change feed rates.


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## awake (Mar 18, 2020)

Or build an electronic lead screw - Clough42 on YouTube has a nice series on his project. 

Truthfully, I would have a hard time spending $1800 or $2400 or anything close to that for a bench-top lathe - I'm spoiled by the fact that I snagged my 12.5 x 30 Cincinnati TrayTop (all 1800 lbs of it) for a mere $500, and as I think I mentioned above, I got my 7 x 14 minilathe for an incredible $50. Of course, both machines needed work ... that is so often the trade-off. I looked recently at a lovely Clausing lathe that is missing the compound and has some issues with the crossfeed screw (needs a new nut, at least) - available for $600. Despite the problems, the bits that I could test were smooth as silk.

But of course, machines like that require space, and 3-phase power to feed them. A rotary converter is easy to make, and I have one powering my Bridgeport, but it wouldn't be big enough for the 7.5 hp Clausing - I'd have to find a bigger idler motor. And moving this sort of machine is a major consideration - you don't just pick up a 3000 lb. Clausing and plop it into the garage! Sigh ... it really hurt me to walk away from that deal, but perhaps not as much as it would have hurt me if I had brought it home to my loving wife!


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## Shopgeezer (Mar 18, 2020)

I am really interested in an electronic lead screw for my King lathe. Have to get some time and study those You tube videos.  There is a nice series on installing a variable speed motor on a lathe.  The fellow is using a Grizzly but it is identical to mine.  What a pile of work. And a lot of knowledge to program the VFD.

I guess as the walls close in with the self quarantine and the toilet paper runs out we can always swap lathe stories. Many years ago I badly wanted a metal lathe to build model engines for my RC planes.  Money was tight then. I ran in to a young fellow whose father was a machinist. He was building model turbojets. I dropped in for a visit to see their shop and met his dad. We hit it off and talked machining for hours. He had a beautiful metal lathe in the shop that he wanted to sell. They were buying a much bigger one. The one he was selling was about an 11" swing and probably 24" long in the bed. Perfect  for a hobbies. It was a British machine, a precision toolroom lathe. Can't remember the make. It was unique in that the stand and the bed were all one big casting. The whole lathe was one unit, and must have weighed a ton. He wanted $2500 for it. I said I would take it but had to do a lot of scratching around for that much cash. I was considering asking him if I could make payments each month when he phoned and said that he was at the dealer for the new lathe and a customer standing beside him heard him talk about the lathe I wanted to buy. The customer bought it on the spot. I was devastated. To this day I wish I had just gone to the bank and got a loan.  Of course I would be dead since my wife would have poisoned my oatmeal if I had loaded more debt onto the family.  Such are the sad tales of the wannabe machinist.


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## awake (Mar 18, 2020)

Indeed. My wife is remarkably patient, but there is a limit to how well she understands the importance of new machines and tools ...


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## packrat (Mar 19, 2020)

My wife also has a limit for these kind of things, and she is getting real close to that limit.{I have three lathes as of now}..


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## awake (Mar 19, 2020)

Three lathes, wow - only room for two more, huh?


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## Shopgeezer (Mar 20, 2020)

Right, three is a good start.


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## lathe nut (Mar 20, 2020)

All you have to do is make her something, like a hammer or mine's plastic rollers went out in the dish washer so I made 4 bronze one and got her ready to wash in an hour, I have 12 lathes, she is not happy with 12 but they do get over it, we were talking in the drive way the other day and she said no more lathes please, she said what I do if something happened to you, I told her sell them, Lady drive up lives close by and said I need some help, I have a lathe in the shop on a 16 foot trailer that my husband bought he stared taking it apart then admitted it to much work and not sure how it goes back together, she said if you come get it I will give it to you, "My Wife" spoke up quickly and said he will take it ???????? I followed the Lady home opened the shop there is sat on a trailer with four flat ties and it was a 21 inch South Bend with a 14 bed, ever attachment you could buy for a lathe is there, most still in the originally boxes, several chucks, I got it home it took two tractors with forks go life it, then pulled the trailer out, I am at present still taking it apart, cleaning all the pieces, prime, paint, when the bed it done back together we go, so have patience with her and she will let you play and we are out of there way.


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## packrat (Mar 21, 2020)

Quote ""My Wife" spoke up quickly and said he will take it"

Now that is a understanding Wife...


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## Danuzzo (Mar 21, 2020)

Okay, I am now looking at the Microlux 7x16. Anyone have experience with the Microlux lathes?


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## lathe nut (Mar 21, 2020)

packrat, thanks for that, that same Lady that gave the South Bend, gave a 9" Logan with a lot of tooling, helping her dispose of there estate, sold two tractors and a 14 foot plow, she come in the shop and was so pleased with the price that I got and said keep selling, she give me a good commission, the she looked at the Lathe and please that home, I thanked her and will get it here soon, I will like the others take care of them you know we really don't own them just borrowing them for the next fellow of a like mind.


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## lathe nut (Sep 30, 2022)

Rickus​you looking to possible get rid of the lathes, I am 17 miles North of Lake Charles what part of the state you in, Joe


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