# Back to Steam



## Brian Rupnow (Sep 4, 2017)

I have always been intrigued by the Stephensons Link reversing mechanism that was used on some steam engines. While searching for information about it, I was directed to "GrabCad", a site where 3D models can be downloaded free of charge. There is a complete and very detailed model of a small two cylinder steam engine, 3/4" bore x 3/4" stroke, with the reversing mechanism on it. It is quite a lovely model, and it is obvious that many of the major components are castings. This afternoon I have been playing on my CAD system to see what would be involved in making this engine from bar stock. This is what the engine looks like as downloaded.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 4, 2017)

The most complex casting is that of the cross-head and the two supporting legs which hold it in position. If I was a real fanatic about it, I might be able to carve this from one lump of metal, but it would be a very trying exercise---and there are two of them.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 4, 2017)

It appears to me that this could be fabricated from three pieces of either steel or brass, silver soldered together. It wouldn't be nearly as pretty as the casting, but should function the same, and be much, much easier to fabricate. The round portion is pretty straightforward lathe work, and the legs could be fabricated from either one or two separate pieces.  It might be tricky to turn the radius in the leg where it has to match the outside diameter of the round cross head, but that is simply a matter of fixturing.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 4, 2017)

Like I said--Not nearly as pretty, but much closer to the scope of what I feel I can fabricate from bar stock.


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## JCSteam (Sep 4, 2017)

Could you not simplify the shape. If you have Mill and lathe, you could face off a chunk of steel. Bore the centre out. Make a mandril to rechuck it the other way around. Then turn a step for the bolted feet, marking PCD for bolt holes, taper the bottom half to a cone shape then a circular shape for the top. Mount in a Mill and get rid of the excess material, to size the stands the same width as the guide. Mill out the guide hole and you have a rough shape of what your after. I don't know the engines and haven't seen the drawings so not sure if there would be any interference with the valve gear doing it this way??? It is a little wasteful on material though!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 4, 2017)

As I said, I could probably hog the whole thing out of one piece of metal, but it would be a lot more work.


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## Herbiev (Sep 4, 2017)

Looks like an interesting project Brian. I always have a lot more success with steam than IC engines.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 4, 2017)

This is going to get interesting. Although the solid models have been designed in inches, it appears that in some places the numbers used may be direct conversion from metric. Also, the bolts used are 7BA and 8BA, which I am not familiar with. I will be converting the fasteners to Imperial sizes, mostly #5-40 and #4-40.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2017)

The base casting for this engine is only 5/8" deep, and as a consequence, both the flywheel and the crankshaft extend below the bottom of the base. This makes it necessary to use a built up sub base with the engine as designed, to give clearance for the crankshaft and flywheel to rotate. I have kept all of the features of the upper surface, but extended the "skirt" another 1/2" so no sub base is required. The original base casting had sloping sides, partly for ease in casting the part and partly for "aesthetics". I have opted to make the sides vertical for ease of machining. This will have no impact on how the engine functions.


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## dnalot (Sep 5, 2017)

Hi

An engine like this was the first engine I built. 

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=21317

Will be following along on your build.

Mark T


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2017)

The only other radical departure from the "casting style" is the connecting rod. On the left you can see the original "as cast" connecting rod and rod cap. On the right is the same con rod and cap machined from solid. Now remember, I have shown the "machined" con rod with no radius on any of the sharp corners. If you wanted to, for "aesthetics", you could file  in any number of nice radii on the machined rod, but other than for "pretty" they aren't really needed.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2017)

MarkT--That is certainly a beautiful and great running engine that you built. Considerably bigger than the 3/4" bore x 3/4" stroke on the engine I am working on.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2017)

There was one more change. The original cylinders had sheet metal lagging around them (and probably insulation between the cylinder body and the lagging.)  Since I will be running this engine on compressed air instead of steam, it is much easier for me to do away with the sheet metal lagging and make the outer body of the cylinders the same shape as the lagging used to be. I have also changed out the original bolts and nuts to all #5-40 socket head capscrews. I know this last step with the bolts will have many of the purists squealing in agony, but I like the socket head capscrews much better.


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## TonyM (Sep 5, 2017)

How about a bit of T section brass for the legs.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2017)

I don't have any t section brass.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 5, 2017)

So--To build this, I can use brass, steel, or a combination of brass and steel. The round center portion can be either material with no penalties. The legs are going to be nasty to cut the half round in where they mate to the cylinder. Since brass is so much easier to machine than steel, I see the legs as definitely made from brass. The feet can be either metal, again with no penalties.  I have all of the material in stock to make it this way. I'll have to think a bit about the round part--I have the material for it in steel but not in brass.


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## bazmak (Sep 5, 2017)

Hi Brian,i too built the Stuart 10v single cylinder frrom castings
The one you are looking at is the D10 twin version with reversing
gear as optional extras.I too looked at then making the twin
from bar stock as you but got no further It is a nice little engine


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## Niels Abildgaard (Sep 6, 2017)

From an engineering standpoint a Heissler engine is simpler,lower mass and better balance.

http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/Heisler/Engine/Engine.htm


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## ShopShoe (Sep 6, 2017)

Brian,

I like your design and I am confident that you will meet the machining challenges.   I am like you in that I really don't like to machine steel as well as I like machining aluminum and brass, but I think you will get this done.

I'm looking forward to seeing the chips fly on this one.

--ShopShoe


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 6, 2017)

Okay--how are we going to do this?---Maybe--Start with a piece of 1/2" flatbar, with the overall height and width and thickness machined to match the outside of the legs.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 6, 2017)

Stick it in the mill vice with a piece of aluminum packing on both sides and drill then bore the 13/16" diameter hole as shown. The aluminum packing on both sides protects the jaws of my mill vice, and more importantly, prevents ripping at the top of the legs where they become a sharp corner.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 6, 2017)

Then we go in and hog away the center material, leaving it as shown.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 6, 2017)

I turn the cylindrical portion to the correct finish diameter and the turned down section is at finished length. The larger diameter is left about 1" longer than it will end up so I can chuck it in the lathe. I will probably make a holding fixture to hold both parts in the correct relationship to each other, and do my silver soldering at this stage.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 6, 2017)

Immediately after silver soldering the parts together and letting them cool, I will mill away the center portion of the flatbar, so that I am left with the two legs, soldered firmly (we hope) in place. I will probably then put the large diameter of the guide into the lathe chuck and take a very light cut to "true up" the ends of the legs.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 6, 2017)

At this stage, I will drill and ream the center hole to finished size in the lathe, then over to my chuck on my rotary table to machine the slot in.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 6, 2017)

And now its back into the lathe and parted off to the correct length. The feet on the bottom of the legs will be silver soldered on as separate pieces.


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## RonGinger (Sep 7, 2017)

Why not carve the feet out of the bottom of the triangular frame for the sides?


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 7, 2017)

RonGinger said:


> Why not carve the feet out of the bottom of the triangular frame for the sides?


Because the feet are considerably wider than the legs.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 7, 2017)

I paid $43 this morning on the way to my temporary "office job" for a piece of 2" x 1/2" x 6" long brass flatbar and a piece of round brass 1 1/2" diameter x 6" long. I ran out of design work at noon, so I came home and played in my shop this afternoon. I have the two pieces cut from flatbar to finished size (setting on the lathe way) and one end of the round bar turned to 1 3/8" diameter and 13/16" diameter  on one end. The finished bore of the round bar will be 5/8". I decided to drill and ream to 1/2" diameter full length of the turned section while it was still in the lathe to give good concentricity, and to #1--take away some of the mass where I will be silver soldering and #2--to give me a "sized hole" to act as a good register for an improvised fixture which will hold the pieces together in the correct relationship while I solder them.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 7, 2017)

Fixture rod to hold things in correct relationship for silver soldering.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 8, 2017)

Hang on, boys and girls--here we go---


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 8, 2017)

Okay---we are ready for silver soldering. The alignment rod is turned from a bit of scrap aluminum. My original thought was to make it from steel, but there is too much chance of soldering the alignment rod to everything else.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 8, 2017)

How do I get the guide rod out? Well, in a perfect world, I would have just pulled it out. In my world, today anyways, it refused to budge so I drilled it out. The bore in the round part was purposely left 1/8" undersize in case this happened. All in all, other than some very lumpy silver soldering, things went pretty good. I drilled out the guide rod, then drilled to 21/32" full depth, then reamed with a 5/8" reamer full length. Then I dressed the ends of the legs to make them equal---just a light .005" cut while spinning in the lathe. When I go to do the second one, I'll put a bigger tip on my acetylene torch to get a bit more heat into things.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 9, 2017)

So, here we are, with the first soldered assembly 99% finished. I still have to drill 4 holes in the top flange, and probably some counterbores in the end of the legs where they reach the foot plate so a #5 shcs can fit flush with the top side of the foot plate. I have to go over everything with a scotchbrite pad to take the filing/sanding marks out. Who can recomend a good pickling solution available in Ontario that I can soak this thing in to get rid of the black "pits" that are marginally below the surface, so can't really be sanded out.---Brian


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 9, 2017)

Brian, can you see at the pictures how the stand with guide is produced with few parts and less machining time in this link? 

http://www.usinages.com/threads/moteur-vapeur-j-l-s.70094/


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 9, 2017)

Yes Jens, I can see it. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.---Brian


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## Herbiev (Sep 9, 2017)

I have used one part hydrogen peroxide with two parts white vinegar with success some time ago. Only takes a few minutes.


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## Cogsy (Sep 9, 2017)

I have a jar of pickling solution on the shelf that is just citric acid and water in a strong mix. For the life of me I can't remember what I made it/used it for, but I carefully labelled it "Citric acid - for brass" so I assume it did the job I wanted it to...


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 10, 2017)

I asked on all 3 forums I post in, for pickling formulas. I have been advised to use sulphuric acid, also muriatic acid, and also citric acid. Sulphuric and Muriatic acid scare me a bit, whereas citric acid seems safe enough to work with, but takes longer. Up I went to the Bulk food store and bought a bottle of citric acid powder for $5. I mixed six heaping teaspoons with a pint of hot water, and dropped in the part I made yesterday. It didn't explode nor create a bunch of fizzing bubbles (I was kind of disappointed actually). I will leave the part submerged for 24 hours and then let you know what the results were.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 10, 2017)

Oh my God--It really does work!!! The part has been soaking in my citric acid solution for an hour. I couldn't see any visual changes in the dark areas. (these dark areas were below the main surface of the parts, and could not be removed by sanding nor wire brushing.) I reached down into the container with my scribing tool and scratched a little at one of the dark areas, and was immediately rewarded with the sight of  clean brass. This encouraged me to remove the part from the citric acid bath and scrub it under running water with a little brass bristled brush I have that looks almost exactly like a toothbrush. All of the black areas are gone completely. I am totally impressed!!!


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## pickleford75 (Sep 10, 2017)

I've used citric acid on all of my soldered parts with great success.... cheap to buy and very safe to use.... just need to be a bit more patient.


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## JCSteam (Sep 10, 2017)

Looking good Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 10, 2017)

Here is a question I have never asked before. I would like to do some more finish sanding on this part to clean up the last of the file marks. The part has a really odd shape. I have a roll of #280 grit carborundum  cloth x 1" wide that I use for cleaning up turnings in my lathe, but it is of course pretty floppy stuff. Ideally, I would like to buy something like a 3/8" wide strip or 1/4" round of this grit, but rigid so I can use it the way I would a file. Somebody must make a thing like that, but I have never seen it. The closest I have seen to it is way back in the day when I was a junior draftsman we had something similar, a flat wooden strip about 4" long x 1" wide with "tear off strips" of sandpaper on it for keeping a deadly point on our drafting pencils.--HOLD ON--Google is my friend. I just found something close to what I was talking about.--Come to think of it, I think my wife has something like that for doing her fingernails.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G14F41E/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 10, 2017)

HaH--Found flat sticks in Kitchener and round ones at Princess Auto. We have a Princess Auto right here in Barrie.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/det...sionid=GYV1XQaNLJH9MRh4yxL9waWV.pal-prod-com1
http://www.chippingaway.com/shop/wo...ders-power-and-hand/sanding-sticks-and-belts/


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 10, 2017)

Well Sir--I didn't even have to leave my house. I went upstairs and begged an emery board from my good wife (for filing fingernails). I hunted around in my shop and found an ignition points file, and found a new Scotchbrite pad while I was looking for it. The resulting finish is far from being show quality, but it is "good enough" for now. I will consider using a bit of filler and painting them when all is done, but that's a long way off.


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## bazmak (Sep 11, 2017)

Looks good Brian,now for the rest of it. I made the Stuart from castings
and thought about making the twin by fabricating the castings and upscaling
X 1.5 of course. Never got off the ground.My silver solder Mapp torch is waytoo small.Will have to look at oxy/acet for my steam loco


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## fcheslop (Sep 11, 2017)

Have a look on Clicksprings he shows some very nifty home made emery boards that are a bit stiffer than our lasses finger nail boards and save the matrimonial strife
https://youtu.be/uTAd1cJyqp4
cheers


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 11, 2017)

Having made one of the soldered "stands", I now have to make a second one. What did I learn from making the first one. First of all, use a bigger torch head.--I can do that, as I have a larger torch head available. Secondly, when soldering on the "feet", don't hold the bar that ultimately becomes the "feet" endwise in a vice.-As soon as the brass gets hot enough to solder, the brass bar will deform from the pressure of the vice and go all wonky. That is why one foot on the finished stand looks fine, while the other foot has a definite wedge shape to it. I think those are the only major things. These are about the most complex shapes that I have made from brass bits silver soldered together.


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## werowance (Sep 11, 2017)

sorry to jump in late on the pickle solution,  but for brass and copper I have used in a quart jar,  fill almost full with distilled vinegar, 3 tablespoons of kosher or non iodized salt (do not use table salt - USA adds iodine to it other countries probably do to)and just a good guess amount of hydrogen peroxide  maybe 1/4 cup?  just enough to fill up the quart jar to the neck

I will often microwave the solution for a couple of minutes to get it hot or warm.  then drop the brass or copper part into it.  in just a few minutes brass will turn that nice copper pink color and solder will stick like crazy.  

I got this from a jewelry making web site.  cant remember its name. but it works good for me and is cheap and easy to make


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 11, 2017)

werowance--that may be good for pickling before you silver solder. I was looking for a pickling solution to clean things up after the soldering was finished, to remove blackening which is almost impossible to get out of any pitted areas. The citric acid worked great for me.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 11, 2017)

I am really impressed with how well this citric acid works as a pickling solution for cleaning up parts that have been silver soldered together. I had tried mixtures of vinegar and hydrogen peroxide before (as recommended by somebody on one of the forums) but it didn't seem to be very effective. Now I'm wondering about something else--I see that builders of model steam engines don't seen to use flux on their parts which they are silver soldering together. Instead they soak the items being soldered in a pickling solution before they silver solder them, and don't appear to be using any flux. I have always used flux on the parts I am going to silver solder. Who can shed a bit of light on this subject?


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 11, 2017)

I am part way through the second assembly tonight. My soldered joints are still lumpy, but I did get a lot better "flow out" of the silver solder using the larger torch tip.  I would have been finished today, but helping babysit a two year old grandson and having a sore back has cut into my day quite a bit. I hope to finish the second assembly tomorrow morning.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 12, 2017)

I was warned that the citric acid pickling would leave a very definite mark on any part of the steel which was not completely submerged in the acid bath. In the interest of science I stuck a piece of steel in the bath I have, with part of it not submerged. Who-ever told me was absolutely right. It leaves a very visible demarcation line, which can not easily be sanded out.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 12, 2017)

I didn't show this set-up for slotting the stand when I posted about the first one, so I'm showing it here. The 1.5" diameter is held in the 3 jaw chuck on my rotary table. It's a bit hard to see, but I have a machinists jack under the outboard end. The legs are set to "level" with my machinists level. A hole is drilled thru to 7/16" diameter at  each center of the slot, then I plunge thru with a 1/2" endmill at each end, then plunge thru every 1/16" then take one complete pass with the endmill down full length so it is cutting the top and bottom all in one pass.  You will notice with this stand that the "feet" are equal in thickness and there is no slant on the top of either foot. That is because I found a better way to fixture the feet before I soldered them on.--Yes, an old dog can still learn new tricks. I still have to machine and file my lumpy solder joints before I part the stand off from the main 1 1/2" diameter, but I think I will save that for tomorrow.


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## Cogsy (Sep 12, 2017)

In the interests of your citric acid tests, I tested a cheap charm bracelet that was found lodged inside our washing machine (thanks to the kids). It was a 'snake' type bracelet rather than a simple chain and was likely chrome plated, but was rusted to the point it wasn't flexible anymore. 12 hours in the pickle, which did produce some light bubbling, all the rust was gone and the bracelet was nice and flexible again. I could have replated it but the catch was broken so the wife threw it out (before I thought about taking a photo). Seems like useful stuff.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 14, 2017)

No work on this project for a couple of days. I have a severe case of Sciatica and the pain in my lower back keeps me from standing at my machines. Fortunately it doesn't bother me when I'm setting down, so I can still do cad work. I did buy material for the engine base, but haven't done anything with it yet. I am anxious to get the last stand finished and move on to machining the base.


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## Twizseven (Sep 14, 2017)

Brian,

I have watched a number of your inventive builds over the last couple of years and admire the way you develop solutions to the problems/issues that arise.

I had a wander round a charity bookshop today and came across a two volume set of books which I think would keep you entertained for hours.

The books are entitled:

Ingenious Mechanisms for Designers and Inventors. Volume 1 and 11.  It is an American book copyrighted in 1930 by The Industrial Press of New York City.  The copy I have dates from 1946 (Seventh edition).

Topic titles include,

Cams and their applications
Intermittent Motions
Tripping or Stop Mechanisms
Reversing Mechanisms
Overload Relief Mechanisms 
Interlocking Devices
Reciprocating Mechanisms

and so on.

There are over 1000 pages in the two volumes.

I'm sure if you could find a copy over there you would find lots of new and interesting mechanisms you could possibly build.

Regards,

Colin


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## Ghosty (Sep 14, 2017)

I have both Vol 1 & 2 in pdf format but too large to post here, PM email if you want a copy, 

Cheers
Andrew


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 14, 2017)

Ghosty said:


> but too large to post here, PM email if you want a copy,
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



Needless to believe it's too large to post here .. 

Download all 4 volume of  ingenious mechanisms for designers and inventors. 

http://www.opensourcemachinetools.org/archive-manuals/Ingenious_Mechanisms_Vol.1_Jones_1930.pdf

http://www.opensourcemachinetools.org/archive-manuals/Ingenious_Mechanisms_Vol.2_Jones_1930.pdf

http://www.opensourcemachinetools.org/archive-manuals/Ingenious_Mechanisms_Vol.3_Jones_1930.pdf

http://www.opensourcemachinetools.org/archive-manuals/Ingenious_Mechanisms_Vol.4_Jones_1930.pdf


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 14, 2017)

I have two or three of that type of book. They are quite inspiring.---Brian


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## Twizseven (Sep 15, 2017)

Jens,

Many thanks for the link to all four volumes.  Lots of interesting reading there.

Colin


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## Mechanicboy (Sep 15, 2017)

Twizseven said:


> Jens,
> 
> Many thanks for the link to all four volumes.  Lots of interesting reading there.
> 
> Colin



Colin

Nice to hear, but these books are mostly about control, regulation, etc. via camshaft, gear, lever etc ..


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 16, 2017)

And now we have two!! The second stand turned out a bit nicer than the first one, mainly due to using a larger torch tip when soldering the joints. Although my solder joints on the second piece I built were quite lumpy, I also had enough build up of solder that when I machined/filed/sanded away the solder I didn't want, I had very few "craters" left below the finished surface. These two stands were probably the most difficult pieces to build. I'm looking forward to machining the aluminum base in the coming week so that I have something to mount these two pieces on.


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## 2tinker (Sep 16, 2017)

Hello Brian

I have lurked for some time on this forum and now you have gone and inspired me to get busy with this engine.

I have done the easy engines that most of us have started learning with and been successful with getting a runner eventually. I am going to follow along with your build as I have most of the material already for it.

Wish me luck!

Frank


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 16, 2017)

Good Luck 2Tinker. I assume you must have a set of plans?---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 18, 2017)

The base for this engine is going to be Ahhhh---Interesting. Nothing horribly complex, just a lot of milling and drilling. I am going to make a simple jig to hold the soldered "towers" in the correct position and mark thru with a transfer punch to establish the 8 tapped holes which hold the towers in place. I find it a bit strange that the pillow block bushings for the crankshaft are mounted 'upside down' to what I consider normal practice.  I still have not fully recover from the sciatica pain in my lower back, but at least I feel improved enough today to do a bit of CAD work. I was supposed to be working in my office on the other side of town today, but I phoned over and begged off for today.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 18, 2017)

This afternoon I have been well enough to dick around with 3D cad, but too sick to machine anything or go to my real job across town. The base for this engine, as originally designed had a lot of machining on it, 80% of which was purely cosmetic. Same for the crankshaft bearings. I have endeavoured to get rid of any machining which was not absolutely necessary for the function of the engine, and it makes for a tremendous difference in the amount of work. The changes shown here will not effect the operation of the engine in any way.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 18, 2017)

This is an "overview" of the engine with fabricated cross head guides and simplified base and bearings.


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## vederstein (Sep 19, 2017)

I have yet to tackle a steam engine with a reversing gear.  I'm looking forward to see how you make that part.

Thanks,

...Ved.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 19, 2017)

vederstein said:


> I have yet to tackle a steam engine with a reversing gear.  I'm looking forward to see how you make that part.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...Ved.


So am I Vederstein---I've never done one before.---Brian


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## bazmak (Sep 20, 2017)

I have that to look forward to on my Simplex


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 20, 2017)

I have split the center bushing on the crankshaft for ease of assembly.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 21, 2017)

Ordinarily, I don't use transfer punches, instead depending on my DRO's to match all the holes in different parts that have to bolt together. However, in this case I deemed it necessary, for a number of reasons. The 5/8" diameter rods you see sticking out of the top of the brass assemblies (which have reamed 5/8" thru holes) are also fitted into 5/8" reamed holes in the aluminum baseplate. I used a machinists square to align the brass assemblies "square" to the side of the aluminum baseplate, then used a transfer punch to mark thru to the baseplate. I will now put a small, discrete "match mark" on each brass assembly and on it's corresponding home position relative to the base so I don't mix them up later. There is about 0.030" clearance between the top flanges of the brass assemblies. I have a ton of machining to do on the base now, and I know that the brass assemblies will go back together with the base the way I intend them to. Each of the transfer marks will be tapped #5-40 in the base for the bolts which hold the brass assemblies in place.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 22, 2017)

YOWZAHH!!! We have the two built up brass cross-head guides mounted to a base. There is a lot of work in that base, but I like the way it turned out. I can't get over how small this thing is. I'm not sure what part I will build next, but probably the bearings and crankshaft are the most logical.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 22, 2017)

Way back at the beginning of this thread, I said that it appeared as if some of the engines dimensions looked like they might be straight conversions from metric to Imperial. Not so--it's just that they built this thing with a 9/32" diameter crankshaft. That is a really unusual size.--A quick check of my reamers shows that I do indeed have a 9/32" (0.281") straight flute reamer, but----I don't have an undersize reamer to use for making a built up crankshaft. However, all is not lost. I do have a 5/16" (0.3125") diameter reamer and an 0.3110" reamer for press fits. So--I'm going to bump the crankshaft up from 9/32" diameter to a full 5/16" (0.3125"). I have checked and there is enough room on the bearings and the connecting rods to bump the bosses up by 1/32" to accommodate the larger crankshaft diameter.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 22, 2017)

Here I am carving the outboard crankshaft bearings out of some aluminum bronze. Either my endmills are all duller than a hoe, or else this stuff is harder than the devil's horn.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 23, 2017)

I'm sure that if 100 engineers/machinists were asked "How do you turn that round bit on either side of the rectangular bearings?" you would probably get 100 different answers that all work. This is what works for me. I machine the bearing blocks to finished size on the outside, put the appropriate bolt holes in, and ream the bore to 1/32" undersize. Then I turn up a short piece of round bar that is a snug fit in the bearing block, coat the round rod with Loctite 638 and assemble as you see them. For the two outside bearings which have 1/16" oil holes in one side, I drilled 1/16" thru the bearing and thru the round rod so that I can Loctite a short piece of 1/16" crs rod thru both bearing and shaft because the cuts taken in the lathe will be interrupted cuts and I wanted the extra insurance that the bearing wouldn't break free from the round rod while I was turning them. The center bearing has an oil hole also, but when I made the two halves I drilled a clearance hole on one half and a #5 threaded hole in the other half, so it will put enough "squeeze" on the stubby shaft that I'm not concerned about it breaking free from the shaft while turning it.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 24, 2017)

So, very carefully the bushings are turned on their stub mandrels and fitted to the aluminum base. The bushings are all currently reamed to 0.281" during this first operation. A bit of experimenting shows that a 0.281" reamer will pass thru all three bushings after they are installed in the base without wanting to take any large amount of bronze of any of the three bushings, which is very encouraging. The next stunt is to take my 0.311" reamer and take a complete pass thru all of the bushings with it, watching very closely to make sure that the reamer is not being pulled "out of position" by any radically "out of alignment" holes. This seemed to go very well, so now I move up to the final size 0.3125" reamer and slowly run it thru all three bushings. Now for the big test---does a 0.3125" shaft fit thru all three bushings?  This is not guaranteed, because if any one bushing was too far out of alignment, the reamer would be quite happy to follow the out of alignment hole. Reamers will not straighten or "true up" a misaligned hole. They are more flexible than you would ever believe.  Luck was with me!! A 5/16" shaft does fit thru all three bushings.--a bit reluctantly, but only a bit, and it can be turned when in place. Before I go any farther with things now, I will mount the base to my work-bench, put an 8" v-pulley on the shaft, and after a liberal application of oil I will drive the shaft for an hour with my old half horsepower bale elevator motor. this will take any "stickiness" out of the bushings and should let a shaft rotate very freely, which is what I am aiming for.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 24, 2017)

Here we are "running in" the new bronze bushings. I bought that motor from a farmer for $10 about 10 years ago for a replacement motor on my big power hacksaw. Turned out it was only a stuck brush on the big hacksaw motor, so I have kept my red 1/2 HP motor for a "spare". The 8" pulley originally had a 3/4" bore, but I have made up a collection of split bushings so I can run it on 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", and 1/2" shafts. The pulley on the 1750 rpm motor is a 2" diameter, so the crankshaft is turning at about 440 rpm, which seems to be about right for running in bushings. Any faster and it burns them and they end up too sloppy, any slower and it takes too long to get the job done.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 24, 2017)

After the motor ran for half an hour the crankshaft bushings were much looser---but not loose enough. These little steam engines really don't like any resistance in the crankshaft bushings at all.---So--I switched out the short piece of 5/16" shaft with the pulley on it for a piece about 12" long, coated it with 600 grit carborundum paste, and using the pulley somewhat like a steering wheel I pushed the shaft thru all 3 bushings with a twisting in and out motion for a couple of minutes, making sure at all times that the shaft was engaged with all 3 bushings. (It wouldn't do much good if it was just a rotating movement--that would give annular grooves around the inside of the bushing.) Pushing the shaft in and out and turning it at the same time very quickly cut a couple of tenths off the inside of the bushings. After cleaning up everything in a varsol bath and blowing thru the bushings with compressed air, I reassembled the short shaft with a bit of lubricating oil, and it spins very freely.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 25, 2017)

Next up will be the crankshaft. In the original plans, the crankshaft and rod journals were 0.281" (9/32") diameter, but I am blowing that up to 0.3125" (5/16) because I have reamers to suit that. The original plate crank-throws were .156" thick, but I am going to use 3/16" material, because I want the added thickness to help hold the pressed together parts more securely. I don't anticipate a problem making all the individual components, but getting everything pressed together and still maintaining the alignment required may be a challenge. The cold rolled shafting I have measures at 0.3120 to 0.3125" diameter. My undersize reamer is supposed to make a hole 0.3110" diameter. Probably a .001" press fit will work okay, as these steam/air powered engines are not high revving engines and not torque monsters.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 26, 2017)

This is how I plan on going about the pressed together crankshaft. The grey 3/16" plates are the crankshaft "throws". The blue shaft is a "sliding fit" through these two plates and it's only purpose is to keep the two center holes in the plates perfectly aligned. The red round shaft will be the con-rod journal, and it will be a "hard press fit with Loctite" into the two grey plates. The green part is a temporary spacer which will be an exact fit between the two grey plates, probably held in place with some hot glue from my glue gun. The purpose of the green spacer is to prevent any movement of the grey plates relative to the red con rod throw and each other, when I press the long portion of the main crankshaft through everything--a hard press fit. once the crankshaft is fully assembled, I will heat and remove the green spacer plate, and mill away the remaining piece of the long main crankshaft from between the two sets of "throw plates"


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## bazmak (Sep 26, 2017)

I dont know if you will be able to press fit the main shaft thru everything
maybe better a slide fit and silver solder ?.I successfully turned the 
crankshaft from solid for the 8 cyinder successfully ?


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 26, 2017)

Bazmak--I kinda sorta agree with you. I really don't want to turn this from solid. I have to study on it a bit more. The pieces are small and material is cheap. I will first try my luck on a built up crankshaft. If that fails, then I may have to turn a crank from solid material.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 26, 2017)

I have to make 4 of these for my built up crankshaft. My first thought was to rough saw them out of 3/16" cold rolled plate as full circles, then use the double sided tape trick to stick them to the nose of my lathes 3 jaw chuck and turn the outside diameter to finished size. (The point on the live center in my tailstock holds them tight against the double sided tape)  Then I would tack weld all 4 together and set them up in the 3 jaw chuck on my rotary table to drill and ream the center hole and the other hole in the milling machine. Then I realized that these plates are only 1.25" diameter, while the nose of my 3 jaw chuck was 1.8" diameter when the jaws were completely closed.--That won't work!! --So--On to my next trick--perhaps I can chuck up a solid piece of 1 1/4" cold rolled steel round-stock in the 3 jaw chuck on my rotary table, drill and ream the two holes to at least 1 1/4" deep with my milling machine, (It is critical that the 0.375" center to center is held very exactly and that the reamed holes be perfectly parallel to the center axis of the round stock), and then move the material over to the lathe and part off 4 "slices" 3/16" thick. That works, but it will be an interrupted cut, and I never get a spectacular finish on the face of things I part off. Of course I can take a facing cut on the exposed side before each parting off operation, so the plates would have a good surface on at least one side. I'm still at the "thinking this through" stage. Material is cheap, and my time if free.--But I still don't want to have to make these more than once. The thought of machining this somewhat flimsy crankshaft from one solid piece of steel makes me quiver all over---


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## Cogsy (Sep 26, 2017)

Brian, if it comes to your worst fear and you need to turn one from solid, do yourself a favour and get some 1144 stressproof. It machines really well (on par with 12L14 in my opinion) and gives a nice finish. If I can do it then I'm positive you can as well.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 27, 2017)

Al--I know how lovely that is to machine. I made my last "crankshaft from solid" out of 1144---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 28, 2017)

Okay--Here we go. Crankshaft step #1. A piece of 1 1/4" cold rolled round stock in the three jaw chuck, the end faced, and the center hole drilled 1.7" deep and reamed to 0.311 diameter.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 28, 2017)

It doesn't show up really well, but this is the second step in my crankshaft build. After cutting off the 12" length of 1 1/4" cold rolled to about 3" long, I set it up vertically in the three jaw chuck on my rotary table. Then I picked up the center, and moved the mill table exactly 0.375", then drilled and reamed the second hole to 0.311" diameter. Now it has crossed my mind that if I wanted to, I could mount the rotary table on it's other face and mill the two flats on the crankshaft webs---but--I think I will have enough headache parting of slices of this round part because of the interrupted cut caused by the second off-center hole. I don't need the added interrupted cuts that would result from milling those flats now. I will get to that later in the process.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 28, 2017)

So---With much butt clenching and clackety-clackety-clackety, I successfully parted off four discs on my lathe which are destined to become crankshaft webs. I have a 3 mm wide inserted carbide parting off blade that is worth it's weight in gold. One hand on the squirt oilcan full of cutting oil, the other hand on the lever that kicks the cross-feed out of gear if anything horrible happens. I love the power cross-feed, but it terrifies me.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 28, 2017)

I have everything ready for pressing together. That web on the extreme left is just a brass "pattern" that was made up to be able to accurately scribe the cut lines on the 4 steel webs.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 28, 2017)

When you press fit a crankshaft together with Loctite, the Loctite actually acts as a lubricant--but---Ya don't have time to stop and take many measurements or adjustments. Once things start to move, you want as much as possible to keep it moving with no stops until you have reached the "home" position. Those three pieces of aluminum with the open slots in them are "spacers". Two represent the 5/16" between the web plates and one represents the space between the two sets of web plates.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 29, 2017)

All I have left to do is the final trimming and pressing and cleanup. So far, so good.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 29, 2017)

Other than a bit of cleanup work, the crankshaft is finished. It fits where it is supposed to, goes round and round without smacking into anything, and is reasonably straight. I have found that these crankshafts for double or triple cylinder engines share a lot of characteristics with a wet noodle. When everything was first pressed together, without the main crank sections being cut out, I set one end up in the three jaw chuck on my lathe, right up to the first web plate, and put a dial indicator on the extreme outboard end. It had 0.135" total runout. After the main crankshaft was cut out from between the web plates, I stuck it back in the lathe and it measured 0.060" total runout. Then it was simply a matter of light smacks on the outboard end with a soft faced hammer, and chasing the high spot around until I got it down to about 0.008" total indicated runout. I went across town today to my tool shop, and bought a 1/16" straight flute reamer and the appropriate drill to go with it. I may drill and pin the web plates to both the main crankshaft and the con-rod journals. I have to think about that one overnight. After I was finished in the lathe, I installed the crankshaft in the engine with the bearing hold down bolts loose, gave it a few spins just to be absolutely certain that it didn't hit anything when turned thru 360 degrees, then tightened down all the bearing bolts. The Loctite I used takes about 20 hours to completely "set up". I would prefer that it "sets up" with the crankshaft in the position it will occupy, rather than just setting out on the bench. I ended up using 5/16" drill rod for the crankshaft, not because it is "better" than cold rolled steel, but because cold rolled steel shafting comes in about .0005" undersize, and I wanted more interference fit than plain cold rolled would give me. Drill rod comes in "full size", and that  extra .0005" on the diameter gave me a much better press fit. I used my 2 ton manual arbor press, and had to put a 3 foot long pipe on the handle to give it enough "grunt" to press everything together.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 30, 2017)

I got up this morning and drilled/dowelled the crankshaft webs to the main crank and to the rod journals. I don't think that in a million years this engine would create enough torque to make this absolutely necessary, but it only took an hour of my time and it gives me the feeling of a bit more security. I guess the next thing up will be the connecting rods.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 30, 2017)

Hind sight being 20/20, if I was designing this engine from scratch, I would have made the base longer, in order to allow thicker crankshaft webs. I would suggest that for engines using built up crankshafts, the design should allow for web plates at least as thick as the crankshaft diameter.


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 30, 2017)

I decided to do something easy this afternoon. My flywheel is going to be a two part assembly with an aluminum center and a cast iron outer rim. I save all my short ends of stock, and keep using them until there is nothing left to hang onto with my chuck. That lump of cast iron just to the right of the crankshaft is going to become the flywheel outer rim.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 1, 2017)

I would just love to be doing some more with this project right now, but the pain in my back and right leg is just so ferocious I can't. All I can really do is lay around on my heating pad and take the Oxycodone pain pills my doctor has prescribed. I have a raging case of Sciatica that is still raging after two weeks. I have also developed something called "drop-foot" in my right foot, which is associated with the sciatica, and I'm walking a bit like "Lurch" of the Addams family. Getting old is not for sissies!!!


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## ShopShoe (Oct 2, 2017)

Brian,

Just have to wish you the best for a recovery. Take your time.

--ShopShoe


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## Herbiev (Oct 2, 2017)

Take care Brian. I had a bad case of Sciatica in my late teens and know the excruciating pain you are going through. Wishing you a speedy recovery.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 5, 2017)

I seem to have worked my way through the greatest part of the pain, with the help of physiotherapy, Oxycodone, and time. I am still feeling a bit fragile around the base of my spine, but at least I've quit hurting. I really don't know what caused this flare up of Sciatica, but it was either using a different computer chair, or standing too long at my lathe. Whatever it was, thank God it's gone. I am not going to be machining anything until at least mid October, because I want to make sure this is totally cleared up before I do anything that might cause it to come back. In the meantime I will take all of the solid models I downloaded them from Grabcad and convert them to 2D dimensioned drawings so I will have something to work from when I do start machining again.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 7, 2017)

I couldn't stand being idle any longer, so--This morning I turned the final outside diameter on that short end of cast iron that was in my lathe, faced the outer face, and bored it for a "push fit" of the aluminum center into it. Coated the outside of the aluminum center with 638 Loctite, and pushed it into place. (a "push fit" is half way between "get the hammer fit" and "Oh damn, it falls through fit").


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## bazmak (Oct 7, 2017)

Its the one fit hardest to achieve. Its either the hammer or the fall thru


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 9, 2017)

My, but there is a world of set-up work in these con rods. By the time I'm done with two of these things, I'll be qualified to start machining ear-rings for my wife!!


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## stragenmitsuko (Oct 9, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> (a "push fit" is half way between "get the hammer fit" and "Oh damn, it falls through fit").



I love it


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## bazmak (Oct 9, 2017)

With ref to these comments and the thread on micrometer readings
I normally  work to 1 thou.However i have just finished the silver steel
crankpins on the Simplex and wanted to achieve a medium press fit,whatever that is
Too tight and might crack the casting. Too loose and its a fall back to loctite
Long story short the reamed holes were oversize so checked with a carbide endmill shank which was 5 tenths down.After turning a no of samples a good
running fit was +1 thou so i first aimed for +1.5 then 2 etc. When i got what i wanted i allowed +- 5 tenths.Worked well but labour intensive


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 9, 2017)

That is why I default to reamers for my assembly fitting. They pretty well hit the tolerance limits "right on", and save me a lot of time and frustration.


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## Blogwitch (Oct 10, 2017)

bazmak said:


> Its the one fit hardest to achieve. Its either the hammer or the fall thru



Baz,
If you do get the 'fall through' don't forget your knurling head.

Just a very very light straight knurl on a part can easily make your piece part grow by 0.002", so saving having to make a new piece.
I like this method anyway as it gets the Loctite right down into the joint making it, to me, a lot more secure, having both mechanical and chemical jointing.

John


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## bazmak (Oct 10, 2017)

I have tight spots on the wheels of the simplex so lots of playing about with not a lot to show for it.A light press fit means i can easily get them off and fall
back to knurl/locktite. Wish i had lots of reamers Brian but all have is few worn
imperial, some cheap chinese metric or homemade D bits. I wish


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2017)

Bazmak--That is why I still work 3 days a week, designing machinery for a company here in town. That gives me enough "cushion" that I can go out and buy whatever tooling I need without dipping into "pension money". Well, that's part of the reason anyways. Truth be told, if I didn't have something to do besides machine my hobby projects, I'd go nuts. The work I do isn't physically demanding, and I love doing it.


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## vederstein (Oct 11, 2017)

Brian,

What size of lathe do you have?  That picture makes your con-rod look huge, but you said the engine was tiny.  I'm trying to get a sense of scale.

Thanks,

...Ved.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 11, 2017)

The full length of that con rod including the bolt on end-cap is 2.3" long. The lathe chuck is 6" diameter,


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 12, 2017)

I'm now into "second set-up" with the con-rods, machining the other side. Same fixture, but with a spacer washer of appropriate thickness between the finished big end boss and the fixture. The fixture is very handy for this kind of work. I know it doesn't look terribly different from the previous picture. After this operation is performed on both rods, then I have only to round the small ends and do a little "clean up" with my jewellers files.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 13, 2017)

Today I finished the con rods. They turned out quite well. No, it isn't your eyes, that gudgeon pin hole in one of the rods is off center a bit. It won't affect how the con rod works, and if it is hugely visible when everything is assembled, I may make a replacement. It has burned about 8 hours of my time making these two.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 14, 2017)

Okay--I have to say it--I'm stoked!!! It has been a long and busy day, but the first stage of assembly has been a great success. I completed the cross heads and "dummied up" a set of cross pins to connect the cross-heads to the connecting rods. I completed the bottom ends of the cylinders, with an integrated "guide/seal" on the underside to guide and seal the piston rod. Everything rotates and clears everything else. The engine is still a bit stiff, that is why the big V pulley is there. It lets me rotate the engine carefully and slowly by hand to check for clearance issues. The little 2" flywheel doesn't give me enough mechanical advantage to do this comfortably. Tomorrow, I will machine the pistons and piston rods, and try to get a video up showing the operation of the assembled parts so far.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 15, 2017)

Today we're going to change things up a bit from the original Stuart engine. The piston will have one 1/16" diameter Viton o-ring. The piston rod is going to increase from 0.156" dia. up to .188" diameter (because I have a ton of 3/16" cold rolled), and there will be no threads at either end. The piston rod will be fitted into reamed holes in both piston and cross head and silver soldered in place. Of course this means that the bottom cylinder cover must be finished and placed on the piston rod before the ends are soldered in place, as it can not be installed afterwards.


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## Mechanicboy (Oct 15, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> The piston rod will be fitted into reamed holes in both piston and cross head and silver soldered in place. Of course this means that the bottom cylinder cover must be finished and placed on the piston rod before the ends are soldered in place, as it can not be installed afterwards.



In my Stuart D10 the piston is fixed to piston rod while the piston rod is screwed to cross head. It will be practical to unscrew the piston rod from cross head when it is need to replace the worned O-ring with a new O-ring when the cylinder head is dismantled.

A question: No cland box gasked in the bottom cover? 

The brass/bronze (bottom cover) will expand more than the steel (piston rod) who lead to more leakage. In my Stuart D10 the cland box is packed with graphite yarn who last very long time. O-ring as gasked in gland box  works well too.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 15, 2017)

I find that I have trouble with alignment on parts assembled with small diameter short threads. A reamed hole ensures my alignment. There is no gland nut on the bottom of the cylinder plate, as this engine will be ran on compressed air, not steam. A reamed fit and a bit of oil gives all the sealing required. There will be no heat, so I'm not worried about differential expansion factors.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 15, 2017)

As I promised, here is a YouTube video of the engine to date, and a top view, showing the soldered piston to piston rod connection. I noticed after watching the video that I called the pistons --cylinders, so be forewarned.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_35ADjGqSM[/ame]


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## Herbiev (Oct 15, 2017)

Looking good Brian.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 18, 2017)

Final "running in" with all moving parts installed. Please let me know if this link works.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16cjuCpjus8[/ame]


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 18, 2017)

Today was a day for making cylinders. I made the end-caps yesterday. My back is sore and I'm going to quit for the day now. I am about half finished with the two cylinders (They are both hiding in that piece of stock in the mill vice.) For something as small as they are, they certainly have a lot of work in them.


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## Herbiev (Oct 18, 2017)

Looking good Brian. The video works fine.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 19, 2017)

Making cylinders isn't that difficult--but it's tedious. I had great plans of finishing both cylinders today, but "real work" interfered. So, after a day in my office across town, I don't have a lot of energy left. I did manage to cut the bar of 1 1/2" square brass into 3 pieces, face the cylinders to the correct length, and then I kinda run out of gas. It happens when you're 71!! And just for giggles--That piece of brass 3" long cost me $27.  $12 for the material, and $17 cutting charge. Looks like I'll be at my office again tomorrow, but Saturday should get the cylinders close to being finished.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 20, 2017)

You know, I thought after I shut my computer off last night that I might have screwed up the math in that post. Ah well, bad on me. It was $12 for the brass and $15 for the cutting charge. I haven't been posting many set-ups, because they really aren't all that exciting. Just very simple 3 jaw and 4 jaw work in the lathe and the mill vice. if I get into any set-ups I consider "special" I will take a picture of it.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 21, 2017)

People have asked for more set-up pictures, so here we go. First picture shows drilling of holes for tapping in the end of the cylinder which was not exposed until the square bar of brass was separated into three pieces.
Second picture shows the wonderful versatility of my "tilt-a-whirl" mill vice, set up to the correct angle for drilling the steam passage at 21 degrees, and the third pictures show the final set-up for a 1/4" endmill plunged .062" deep so the newly cut steam passage is uncovered to the inside of the cylinder when everything is assembled.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 21, 2017)

These are the final steps before I set the cylinders up on an arbor and finish the outside surfaces. Picture #1 shows a set-up in the milling machine where the sloping sides of the cylinders which will show are machined to final size. Picture #2 shows the corners cut away on the bandsaw. next step will be setting the cylinders up on an arbor to finish the o.d. in my milling machine.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 21, 2017)

A simple arbor made from 3/4" cold rolled (same as bore of cylinder) and a piece of scrap aluminum cross doweled to the end of it, gives me a fixture which I can mount a cylinder on, and use two of the tapped holes in one end to bolt it to my simple fixture. I then hold the end of the 3/4" cold rolled in my rotary table horizontally and use an end mill to cut the outer rounded profile of the cylinder.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 21, 2017)

And that, my friend is how we end up with this truly beautiful shape. The milling cutter is set at a fixed height. The table-stops on the front of the mill bed are set so as to prevent me running the cutter into the chuck jaws, or too far (needlessly) in the other direction. The cutter is centered  over the rotary table chuck in the x axis and locked there. So--back and forth with the mill table in the z axis what seems like a million times, advancing the rotary table 2 degrees between each pass from right to left.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 21, 2017)

Not finished yet but---You know how it is. You reach a stage where you have all these little pieces, and your just dying to see if they all fit together. Fortunately, they do. I had to speak rather harshly to the piston closest to the flywheel. Somehow, it was half a thou over 0.750 instead of half a thou under. I removed the Viton O-rings and tickled it a little with some 220 grit sanding strips, and then it decided it really would go into the cylinder anyhow. I have to "relieve" a bit of material off the two sides of the cylinders where they touch in the center, but that will be easy enough with my big stationary sanding belt. All in all, I'm very pleased so far.


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## Herbiev (Oct 21, 2017)

Love the arbor set up. Great idea cross pinning and having mounting holes in the al part.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 22, 2017)

This will be the final "run in" of the engine, to let the pistons get well acquainted with the new cylinders. There is more information in the text part of the youtube video. That scraping noise you hear in the video isn't the engine. It's the side of that rather wonky big v-pulley scraping on the side of the workbench.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCVN3yoxvV0&feature=youtu.be[/ame]


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 22, 2017)

Here we are turning the ends of a steam chest between centers. One center is held in the 3 jaw chuck, one held in the tailstock chuck with a bit of grease on the tip to keep it from getting hot or burning off. The lathe dog is a machinists clamp with a 1/4" bolt screwed into the side of one jaw to transmit torque from the 3 jaw to the steam chest.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 23, 2017)

The steam chests are still "in process". One is about 80% finished and is bolted in it's final position on the cylinder. The other steam chest is "Hot off the lathe" and I left the machinists clamp on it so you can get a better idea of how the 1/4" bolt screwed into one of the legs becomes the "drive dog" when it is set up in the lathe. The longest 5/16" diameter end will only be about 0.3" long when it is finished, but I have left it longer so I can grip it in my 3 jaw chuck on the lathe for when I go to put in the bore for the valve actuator linkage,


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 23, 2017)

Today I discovered the first error in the 3d cad model of this engine which I downloaded from GrabCad. The hole in the end of the steamchest where the rod enters is shown as being .093" diameter, instead of the .125" diameter which is necessary to get the rod thru the hole. Not a big deal, and caught before I actually put the hole in. Easy to correct. Whoever made this 3D model has done a terrific job on it. I'm wondering--If the hole in the gland nut is 0.125" diameter, should I perhaps open the hole a couple of thou. larger in the steamchest entrance? I have never had a lot of luck putting two holes in parts that thread together and expecting them to line up perfectly.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 23, 2017)

And that second steam chest marks the last of the "big" pieces. I still have a whole bunch of "little pieces" to make, but this has come together nicely and is starting to look like an engine.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 24, 2017)

I ended up reaming the .093" hole in the steam chest for the cantilevered end of the valve rod, and drilling the 1/8" hole where the rod enters. The fact that I drilled the 1/8" hole instead of reaming it gives a little "slop" which should prevent the valve rod from binding after I have added the packing nut. That valve rod is a full 1/8" diameter right up thru the valve nut, then it reduces to .093" for the last half inch or so.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 24, 2017)

Today I finished the steam chests and made eccentrics. I liked it so much, I made them twice.---Didn't plan it that way, but after I got the first two parted off I realized that I had no way to hold the friggin' things to put that groove in the center.---Big Headslap!!!
 First step was to put the material in the 3 jaw chuck on my rotary table, center it under the quill on the mill, then dial in the offsets and drill/ream the large hole and drill the 1/16" hole about 1" deep from the end. Then over to the lathe and part them off.--Then curse and repeat--only this time put that groove in before parting off.
These are the "simple" eccentrics. There are another pair, slightly more complex that I will make tomorrow.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 25, 2017)

All four eccentrics are finished. Not nearly as much drama with the second set of eccentrics--I knew what to watch out for. Normally, a steam engine has only one single eccentric per cylinder. This one has two per cylinder because of the Stephensons reversing linkage.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 25, 2017)

That's enough playing for today. Just finished the steamchest covers. I have to go talk to another old customer who has just contacted me.--And that's okay. My back is starting to bark at me anyways.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2017)

I have two really dreadful pieces of bronze left over from that 50 pound weight that found it's way to my house. It made a lot of beautiful flywheels, and now I'm using the left over scraps. These two pieces are destined to become the reversing shaft brackets which hang of the face of the steamchest covers.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2017)

The pieces are laid out and the rectangular profile I require is cut free, leaving about .031" all around the perimeter greater than the finished size   I will need.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2017)

The rectangular pieces are held in my mill vice and brought down to finished thickness, and all holes are drilled.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2017)

The rectangular pieces are sawed/filed/sanded to their final shape, and a simple fixture made up so I can mount them in the lathe to turn material away from both sides, to expose the "boss" on each side.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2017)

The fixture is mounted in the 3 jaw chuck in my lathe, and first one side is turned, then the other on both brackets, exposing the boss on each side.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 26, 2017)

And here we have the two reversing shaft brackets installed, with the reversing shaft setting in them.


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## werowance (Oct 27, 2017)

looking great Brian.  

on a side question, I have never had the pleasure of working with bronze.  do you find it cuts like brass or more like steel?  I guess I have cut through some bronze brazing but never a large chunk.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2017)

Bronze cuts a bit harder than brass, a bit easier than steel. You don't get chips like brass or steel, you get powder.--Hot powder, depending on speed and depth of cut.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2017)

The eccentric strap on the original Stuart models (shown in yellow) is very pretty, but difficult to make as it looks like it will require a lot of rotary table work on the outer perimeter. I have redesigned it so that it requires no rotary table work. It is made in two stages--first with definite corners on the left hand side, then mounted on a mandrel and the corners knocked down with a file. The end result looks fine, and requires no rotary table work at all.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2017)

I'm not really sure how this is going to turn out, but it's ,uhmmm---interesting. The shape is very definitely there. Now that the basic shape is there, it's time to transfer into the 4 jaw on my lathe to bore and ream the 5/8" hole, 2" deep.
Then if I'm lucky, I will part off four eccentric straps. I will do the tapped holes and sawcuts after all four straps are parted off.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 27, 2017)

Well--That didn't turn out to shabby!! I still have to part the four straps off from the parent stock, and add threaded holes and saw cuts. I'm happy with it. Now if I can part it off without any disasters, I'm almost ready to start sorting out linkages.--Disregard the 3D drawing it's setting on. That's a design job I'm working on for a customer.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2017)

This mornings work was to finish the eccentric straps. The long bolt represents the linkage which will extend up from the eccentric strap to the Stephensons reversing linkage. The clamp bolt at the sawcut allows tightening or loosening the fit of the strap to the eccentric itself, and the short bolt which you see extending into the bore fits into the slot in the eccentric to keep the strap from trying to fall of the eccentric as the engine runs.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 28, 2017)

This afternoon I made the gland nuts for the steamchests. I'm done for today. I had a couple of thoughts today.--#1 thought--I have this thing finished to the point where another days work could see it running without the Stephensons reversing linkage. #2thought---I think I need to tap the holes in the side of my steam chests, otherwise I have no way to attach the pressure lines to it.--May have to tap the exhaust holes in the sides of the cylinders.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2017)

Today was the day for slide valves and slide valve nuts. I had a lot of trouble with the slide valves.--You know how it is---Measure wrong, cut too deep, launch part across room, solder short end to add piece back on--Maybe my mother was right about not working on Sundays. At any rate, I persevered and finished the parts.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 29, 2017)




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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 30, 2017)

Let me be the first to point out----I'm not really good at making these small clevises. When parts get this small, (1/4" square) I have a difficult time getting them to be cosmetically correct. The reamed thru holes are correct, and the #5-40 (1/8 dia.") threads are in the right place, but the overall outer shape always leave a bit to be desired. You will notice that I have made extra of each type. This lets me pick the best ones out of the lot and discard the really bad ones.


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## bazmak (Oct 30, 2017)

Im making a 5" G and still struggling with small parts.Broke 2-2mm drills
yesterday and no chance of grinding them.Eyesight and age a terrible thing
Like what you are doing in this thread.I first made the single cyinder version
from the stuart kit and thought of scaling up the 2 cylinder and fabbing the castings as you doing.Great job Brian keep the posts coming. Your work
output is phenominal considering you are also working full time


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 31, 2017)

I'm doing a juggling act here between "real" paying design work and no pay engine building. I'm finding that I don't really want to give up any of my time for "real" work, and that's bad. I would give it up completely, but I know that 2 or 3 weeks down the road when this engine is finished, I'll be going mad for something to do.  I finished all of the clevises that this engine requires, and tapped the ports in the side of the steamchest. I have finished securing the cross pin for my con-rod, and everything clears, but man, it's a tight fit inside those cross head guides. I've decided that before I finish the Stephenson's reversing gear, I will attempt to run this as a simple non reversing engine, then if I am successful I will add the reversing gear.  All I have left to do now is make some connector links out of 1/8" diameter steel rod and to make some gaskets.


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## bazmak (Nov 1, 2017)

I have just spent a good days work making 2 links
Lots to go at.Im glad its 5"g not 3.5"g.Yes Brian that Stuart
model gets pretty small but nothing like some others make


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 1, 2017)

Sometimes---Things get pretty damned crude around here. I wasn't having any luck at all turning the end of a 1/8" rod to .093" to fit into the blind end of the steamchest. So--Out comes the faithful pneumatic die grinder, and ground it to size. It worked. a little touch up with some sanding strip and we have one steamchest linkage finished.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 1, 2017)

Here we have the ultimate in "low tech" gasketry. Print the parts the gaskets are going onto at 1:1 scale, cut them out and use a glue stick to stick them onto a piece of .030" general purpose gasket from the automotive supplier in town. When the glue is dry I use scissors to cut the outer profiles, an exacto knife for the inner surfaces, and a leather punch for all the bolt holes.


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## bazmak (Nov 1, 2017)

Rather than using paper gaskets Brian,what other options are there for
steam loco gaskets.Any/best form of liquid gasget goo that does not
set too hard


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 1, 2017)

And, if you didn't know what a leather punch looks like--this is it. The handiest gasket hole maker you could ever think of. The engine is all reassembled now, complete with gaskets but two of the control links I made this afternoon appear to be to short on one end. Will correct that tomorrow.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 1, 2017)

bazmak said:


> Rather than using paper gaskets Brian,what other options are there for
> steam loco gaskets.Any/best form of liquid gasget goo that does not
> set too hard


I don't use "gasket in a tube" because you can't control it---Soon as you tighten the bolts the damned stuff squishes out all over the place, plugging air passages and buggering up the works. Apparently there are very thin Teflon sheets you can buy that make excellent gaskets, but I have never used them.


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## bazmak (Nov 2, 2017)

Thanks for your input Brian. You mentioned 30 thou matl but that will 
cock up some dims.Ie if i use it between my cylinder it will alter the pisto/valve centres by 30 thou. Seems a lot. The model i am making was drawn and described in 1947 and very old fashion in details and tooling etc
Paper gaskets are mentioned but modern matls were not available then
I understand brown paper /oiled was an old fashion way.Just hoping maybe 
others will read this thread and add their penneth.Keep up the good work


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## pp2076 (Nov 2, 2017)

bazmak said:


> Thanks for your input Brian. You mentioned 30 thou matl but that will
> cock up some dims.Ie if i use it between my cylinder it will alter the pisto/valve centres by 30 thou. Seems a lot. The model i am making was drawn and described in 1947 and very old fashion in details and tooling etc
> Paper gaskets are mentioned but modern matls were not available then
> I understand brown paper /oiled was an old fashion way.Just hoping maybe
> others will read this thread and add their penneth.Keep up the good work


Keith Appleton, on one of his models, used plain old brown wrapping paper, no special treatment.
I suppose the seal depends on how good the mating surfaces are


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## TonyM (Nov 2, 2017)

I just used greaseproof/baking paper stolen from the kitchen drawer.:thumbup: for a head gasket on lapped head and barrel.
The other option I thought of trying is the heatproof sheets used for Tee shirt printing.


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## bouch (Nov 2, 2017)

pp2076 said:


> Keith Appleton, on one of his models, used plain old brown wrapping paper, no special treatment.
> I suppose the seal depends on how good the mating surfaces are



Add me to the list of people that uses brown paper bags.  That's all I used in several of my engines.

Only thing is that, just before installation, I coat them in light oil (3-in-one, sewing machine oil, something like that)

My Stuart Turner #1 is something like 20 years old, and the gaskets still seem to be working fine.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 2, 2017)

Yesterday, I made up all of the 1/8" threaded rods that transmit motion from the eccentric to the slide valve. On assembly, it became clear that I had made the rod attached to the eccentric strap too short. So, today another kick at the can. I'm not worried about valve timing yet. However, with the slide valve exactly at the center of it's travel in the steamchest, and the highest point on the eccentric lobe setting parallel to the engine base, that lets me measure from the top of the eccentric strap to the "eye" on the brass fitting attached to the slide valve rod. This measurement will let me determine the correct length for the rods I have to remake. The "throw" on the eccentric is only .093", so the total movement of the slide valve will only be 3/16" in total.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 3, 2017)

IT'S ALIIIIIVE---Right now I only have one cylinder hooked up and no packing in the valve glands, but the engine is up and running.--more to follow---


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 3, 2017)

As I set typing this, the engine is now running on the other cylinder. I like to run each cylinder individually before splitting the incoming air to drive both cylinders.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 3, 2017)

If this link works, you will see the first run of the vertical twin engine.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYyiChGOYzI[/ame]


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## bouch (Nov 3, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> If this link works, you will see the first run of the vertical twin engine.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYyiChGOYzI



"The video is unavailable"


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 3, 2017)

I fixed the video link.


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## Herbiev (Nov 3, 2017)

It's alive. Well done Brian. Looking forward to the Stephenson link build.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 4, 2017)

Now that things are well broken in, this is a video of my engine running at a much more sedate pace.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWqNR4U-WXc&t=3s[/ame]


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## ShopShoe (Nov 4, 2017)

Very Nice,

I like this engine. I do like the way the standards (right terminology?) turned out. I am also looking forward to the build of the valve linkages.

Keep up the good work.

--ShopShoe


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 4, 2017)

I can tell right now---there's going to be a lot of Voodoo in this 'expansion link' which seems to be the heart of the reversing mechanism--and I need two that are identical. Probably my best bet is to tack-weld two pieces of 1/8" plate together before starting to do any cutting or shaping. In fact, since I have a 3 jaw chuck mounted on my rotary table, it would probably be a good idea to attach a 3/4" round handle to the plates right at the center of the arc in the plates so that I can mount the rotary table with the central axis of the chuck vertical. The holes are not going to be a problem--I can use the DRO on the mill to locate and drill them. Cutting the arc shouldn't be a problem---in theory. The .078" radius on the ends of the arc dictates a 0.156" endmill, which I can buy locally. My rotary table has no "stops" that can be adjusted on the arc, so I see a lot of very meticulous angle watching because it will take repeated cuts all starting and stopping in exactly the same spot to cut that arc.


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## bazmak (Nov 4, 2017)

Machine a piece of 1/8 plate to the full dia just over 4" and finish of everything
you will have room to make extra in the blank and have plenty of room for clamping.


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## Rickl (Nov 5, 2017)

Going well Brian.
Rick
Sth Australia


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 5, 2017)

This is sorta/kinda what I had in mind. The green plate is 1/2" thick aluminum with a red 3/4" shaft 3" long hard press fitted to it. The red 3/4" shaft is held in the chuck jaws, The chuck is bolted to the top of my rotary table. The yellowish colored plate is 1/8" thick steel from which the finished link will be cut. Three #4-40 threads will be tapped in the 1/2" aluminum plate, and three "size on size" corresponding holes will be drilled thru the yellow coloured steel plate to hold it in place during the milling operation. The center of the red round part in the chuck is concentric to the center of the slot being cut in the link, and is centered under the mill quill. Since the rotary table will be locked until all of the holes are drilled, I can probably drill holes at the ends of the inside arc at the same time. Then when the rotary table is unlocked to begin cutting the arced slot, the drilled holes will tell me when to stop cutting at either end of the milled arc


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## Mechanicboy (Nov 5, 2017)

I would mill / drill 2 pcs drag links at the same time to get the exact size. I did with 2 pieces of the drag links for the Stuart D10 and 3 pieces drag links for stuart triple expansion when i created the drag link in same time. It save much time.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 5, 2017)

I have all the parts except the rods with 1/8" bends in them already finished. I will modify the fixture to let me set all of the eccentric strap sub-assemblies to the same length.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 5, 2017)

It's Sunday night. I hurt my back yesterday, so I'm not up for much machining (until tomorrow at least.) I've spent today thinking about reversing gear, doing a bit of layout work, and yacking with my internet friends.--When I built this engine, I put Viton O-rings on the pistons. One ring per cylinder. All of the other "steam-engines" I've built, about a dozen, never had any rings at all---Just two or three very shallow grooves around their circumference for oil retention. They all spin very freely, and I never noticed any of them having a problem with pressure "blowing by" the pistons. With this engine I just finished, I was expecting some binding as all the pieces were firmly bolted together, so my reasoning was that if I leave a little more clearance between the steel piston and the brass cylinder, there would be less chance of the piston scoring the inside of the cylinder. The Viton ring would ensure no leakage of air, even though the piston wasn't as tight a fit as on my earlier "steam engines".  A 1/16" cross section Viton ring is actually about 0.070" in cross section. I made the groove in the piston 0.060" deep, which is about .003" more than I do on my internal combustion engines. Everything works, just as I had planned. What I didn't plan, is the amount of drag that Viton ring would create. I know this engine should run easily on about 5 psi.---it doesn't. I have ran it for about 6 hours now, and it isn't going to wear in anymore than it has already. 10 psi is about as low as I can turn my air regulator without the engine stalling out. And---When the engine sets for a while, not running, the Viton takes a "set" and is a real pig to get the crankshaft rotating again. Soon as the crankshaft rotates even a little bit that "set" goes away, but it never goes totally away. I'm not going to change things now, but I just thought I would post this as information.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 6, 2017)

I got up before the chickens this morning and snuck (that is the Canadian form of sneaked) down to my shop and finished the jig for milling my reversing plates. At one end, the links can be set up and adjusted to all be exactly the same length. (the one shown doesn't have the 1/8" rod running between the brass end pieces.) The other end will come to life and hold a reversing plate later today.---And yes, after I had the plate firmly bolted to the shaft, I set it up in the lathe and took a 0.015" clean up pass on the face of the plate. This plate was a piece of repurposed scrap, so there are a few holes in it that don't mean anything.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 6, 2017)

One picture of set-up and one of main slot milled. Lots and lots of breath holding and butt clenching going on!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 6, 2017)

Second radial cut. Not as much breath holding this time, as I was able to use a 3/8" endmill. I'm running the mill at about 900 rpm, and cranking the rotary table slowly, cutting in both clockwise and counterclockwise direction. I advance the tool 0.010" each time I get to the end of a rotation. In a way part of this is climb milling, but a great deal more of the cut is endmilling.


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## bazmak (Nov 6, 2017)

before you start milling,using the same setup,its easier to chain drill holes
then swap the drill for a slightly smaller endmill.You can then lightly plunge cut
and cut the slot full depth with combination plunge and climb milling
Using the DRO then you can open up to exact size by conventional milling
and running back over a few times climb milling for a good finish
I am well on my way to making a pair for my Simplex will post when finished
A bit bigger and more involved than yours,with more setting up time than 
machining.Keep posting.I too have just snuck into my shed before i have to
take the wife shopping and put a bet on the Melbourne Cup


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 6, 2017)

This is as much as I'm going to do today. There is more that I can chew away before tearing down this set-up, but this is as far as it's going today.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 6, 2017)

In hindsight, I wish now that I had put both plates on my fixture and machined them both a once. Since I can only take about 0.010" depth of cut for fear of breaking my 0.156 endmill, it wouldn't have been a problem if I'd had both plates on there.---live and learn.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 6, 2017)

Bazmac--I've seen other people do the chain drilling thing, but here's what I find. Without chain drilling, the endmill has a fairly constant load on it thru the full arc. With chain drilling, the endmill sees highly fluctuating loads as it goes from chain drilled clearance to areas of material that haven't been chain drilled (between the chain drilled holes) and is more liable to catch on the edge of a drilled hole and snap off. This applies with small diameter endmills more-so than larger endmills.


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## bazmak (Nov 7, 2017)

I see your reasoning,but from experience i prefer to chain drill first
I dont like to use the correct size endmill as you finish up oversize
and usually a chatter finish. I usually take a cut on the convensional
milling cut and reverse back a couple of times for finish(climb milling)
I have just had a successful couple of hours and almost finished
my expansion links. Its not easy making multiple screwed connections
M2.5 thru 5 piece laminated steel,but almost there.Will post on my thread
soon. Regards barry


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 7, 2017)

This job ought really to be done with a slot drill. They tend to cut closer to size than an end mill. However, I agree with using an undersize cutter for roughing out at least, and with climb milling a finishing cut of a very few thou. Personally, I find chain drilling usually turns out to have been a waste of time.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 7, 2017)

I have reached the limit of what I can do in my milling set-up. The remainder of material to be removed will be done with bandsaw and file.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 7, 2017)

So---we have one reversing link finished. All of the holes and centers of radii are exactly where they should be. The arc is exactly where it should be. Sid was right, cutting the 0.156" wide arc with a 0.156" endmill held in a drillchuck is not accurate---The slot ended up at 0.165" wide. This does not pose a problem for me, as I am the one who makes the "follower" that runs in the slot. When I do the second link, I will hold my 0.156" endmill in a collet and see if that yields anything different.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 7, 2017)

For what it's worth---I cut the arced slot in the second part with my 0.156" four flute endmill held in a collet. The slot measures 0.161" wide. When I cut the slot in the first part with the same endmill held in a chuck, the slot came out at 0.165" wide.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 7, 2017)

And now there ate two. Not nearly as much drama with the second one.


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## bazmak (Nov 7, 2017)

Slot drills or end mills, collets or chucks the slots always come out oversize
However i would always use collets and slot drills.If you are making the
fitting part then this can be made to suit the slot.However i prefer to cut undersize and then open out for a better finish.When i use the term endmill
i refer to modern phrasiology it can be any no of flute as all can be classified as endmills or slot drills.I personally prefer 2 flute,you get easier cutting and bette
finish with 4 flute but for us home engineers 2 flute are easier to sharpen and get extended use and easier for plunge cutting.Just nipping out to the shed
to finish my linkage. By the by the wife got first in the Melbourne cup and i got 3rd.My winnings has just bought me some more endmills,and i broke an M2.5 tap


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 7, 2017)

Live and learn, Bazmak. I have always heard that any endmill will produce a somewhat larger slot than the endmill size. This may be the first time I have actually cut a slot that required some control over the finished width. As far as two flute cutting  a more "on size" slot than a four flute, I believe it to be true, but sometimes I don't have both types of cutter to choose from. I know that for side milling I prefer the four flute style because there is a lot less "clunkety-clunkety-clunk than when using a two flute.


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 7, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> So---we have one reversing link finished....    This does not pose a problem for me, as I am the one who makes the "follower" that runs in the slot.



Brian, the bit you have made is an 'expansion link' and the bit that it slides over is a 'die block'.

It is called an expansion link because you can set the gear at intermediate postions away from 'full gear' in either direction in order to give an earlier cut-off and thereby have the engine run more economically. This is very much a feature of railway practice, but traction engines can also be 'notched up' or 'linked up' to a lesser extent. I am told that it is not done in marine practice, as the engine does not have to start against much load, so the full-gear cut-off can be optimised for cruising speed. If you notch up an engine running on air you will soon find the cylinders get cold because of the expansion. Experimenting with notching-up could provide an extra dimension to 'playing with' your engine.

Do tell me if my seemingly frequent terminological corrections start to grate.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 8, 2017)

Charles--I'm not overly concerned what the pieces are called. There may have been a time when steam ruled the world, but that is long gone by. I am undertaking this exercise just to "see if I can". For my money those two links are the parts that are most critical in making the engine run in reverse, ergo "reversing links" works fine for me.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 8, 2017)

This is a very well done assembly video of the engine I am building. The reverse mechanism has a few minor differences, but the video is amazingly well done.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9r7gw-XxIc[/ame]


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 8, 2017)

Okay, it's time to ask for an opinion. I am going to require a total of four eccentric strap assemblies. Two with straight rods connecting the ends and two on which the rods have a 1/4" offset. In the normal course of affairs, I would thread everything and screw all the pieces together. Although they look huge in this picture, they are only 1.646" center to center. I have a fixture to mount everything on at the exact centers required, and it is imperative that all four center to center distances are exactly the same. I'm thinking to myself "Why not set them up one at a time in the fixture and silver solder the rods to both ends?"  The only adjustable thread required would be on the rod which passes thru the valve nut, to center the valve for timing the engine correctly, and the rotational position of the eccentrics on the crankshaft. Opinions please.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 8, 2017)

I really do try to make something each day. Some days it's not much. These little guys are destined to become drag links.


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## Mechanicboy (Nov 8, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> I'm thinking to myself "Why not set them up one at a time in the fixture and silver solder the rods to both ends?"  The only adjustable thread required would be on the rod which passes thru the valve nut, to center the valve for timing the engine correctly, and the rotational position of the eccentrics on the crankshaft. Opinions please.---Brian



Use jig to keep fixed length of rod before silver soldering the rod to both ends. Then the rod for valve must be adjustable for correct timing.

See my Stuart D10 in avatar, there are not threads on the rod to ends.


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## vederstein (Nov 8, 2017)

Brian,

When you start a project, you really get it done.  I don't know if you're obsessive or nuts?!?!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 8, 2017)

vederstein said:


> Brian,
> 
> When you start a project, you really get it done.  I don't know if you're obsessive or nuts?!?!



Probably a bit of both. When I have unfinished anything it eats at my soul until I get it finished.  I admire the guys who can leave projects unfinished for weeks at a time and not have it bother them.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 9, 2017)

Every reversing engine needs a reverse handle, and now mine has one!!


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## ShopShoe (Nov 10, 2017)

Brian,

You have solved a problem for me. I have been visualizing several projects that need control levers and every one would need a smooth handgrip and making more than one so that they all matched would probably not turn out well for me.

Your knurled handle solves that as I can make cylinders more easily than "handgrip-shaped" handles. 

Filed for Future Reference

I am enjoying this build, just like all your projects.

Thank You,

--ShopShoe


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## TonyM (Nov 10, 2017)

The only problem with jigging them individually might be a slight variation due to expansion and contraction when soldering. There might not be enough to worry about but you may want to jig them in pairs.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 10, 2017)

Glad I was able to help, Shopshoe. Those little bits of knurled brass Loctited to the shank of a handle give it a little class. and you don't have to have any fancy prep work on the end of the handle either. Just knock any corners off on the belt sander so it will fit into the hole drilled in the brass bit.
I am getting to the point where all the major links and levers for the reversing system are finished. I have a few itsy bitsy pieces to make and then I'm ready to try this reverse business out. All of the blue parts in the model are finished.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 10, 2017)

I've just had one of those days where it seems I worked awfully hard for minimal results. Most days I go like a whirling dervish and at the end of the day I have a collection of parts to show what I've been doing. Today I made three parts and figured out how to make the final three. I really hope this reversing mechanism works. It is very interesting and there seems to be a lot of small parts involved. I should know in the next two or three days.


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## Mechanicboy (Nov 11, 2017)

TonyM said:


> The only problem with jigging them individually might be a slight variation due to expansion and contraction when soldering. There might not be enough to worry about but you may want to jig them in pairs.



TonyM

No problem, i did with the rods and ends: Solder the big end first then let it cool down and solder the last small end.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 11, 2017)

This quest for a reversing engine is taking me in some strange directions. I finally have all of the pieces made, tomorrow I will silver solder up the eccentric strap sub assemblies. In the picture you will see a couple of 1/8" shafts with hex nuts soldered to the ends of them. They are destined to be sawn in half and then threaded on the cut ends to yield four hex bolts.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 11, 2017)

I have the first eccentric sub assembly fixtured and ready for silver soldering in the morning. I drilled the center out of the 5/8" fixture rod, leaving only a 1/32" wall so that it doesn't act as a big heat sink. There is a very slight air gap between the eccentric strap and the aluminum fixture plate, probably only about .005", but that will stop a lot of heat from being sucked out of the brass strap end as I solder it. The 1/8" pin which locates the small brass end can be pressed out from the far side if I need to in order to remove the sub assembly from the fixture. I have to do two sub assemblies like this and two with a .25" offset bent into the 1/8" rod. I'll let you know how I made out in the morning.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 12, 2017)

I'm very pleased with how the silver soldering went on my four eccentric strap sub assemblies. I got good flow all around the 1/8" rod at both ends, and good fusion between the steel rods and the brass ends. My "soldering fixture" worked like a charm. I have set one of the assemblies with an offset end up in the fixture for one shot, so you can see the spacer underneath the large end of the strap. I had no problem removing them from the fixture. A two hour soak in Citric acid and then some brisk scrubbing with my small brass bristled brush yields some very nice looking parts---and they are all exactly the same center to center distance.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 12, 2017)

Up until this point, I have been reasonably sure of what I was doing---as in "Okay, I've done all of this stuff before, so I'm not covering new ground here." Now I have arrived at something totally new, the timing of the two cams at each side of the engine, in relationship to each other. The solid model I have shows a separation of 120 degrees between the high point of the lobes on the two adjacent cams. The part which I have been referring to as the "reversing plate" has a total included angle of about 30 degrees. I have absolutely no idea as to whether this is correct or not. Whoever has created the 3D model I have worked from has done a sensational job, and I can proceed based on blind trust that he has modelled this relationship correctly, but I would really like to have a better understanding of how or why this works. If anyone out there can shed some light on this, I would really appreciate it.---Brian


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 13, 2017)

OK Brian, I can do that. First we need to know the dimensions of the valve and ports and the throw of the eccentric. It will be easier to understand when we have some concrete numbers to play with.


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 13, 2017)

Actually, I know how keen you are to get on, so we can do a sanity check quickly.

Take the overal distance between the outside edges of the ports, and the overal length of the valve. Half the difference between these dimensions is the 'lap', ie the amount the valve in mid position overlaps the port edge at each end.

Now draw a circle with a diameter equal to the total valve travel given by the eccentric. Draw a horzontal line positioned below the centre of the circle by the amount of lap. Draw a radius each side to the intersection of the circle and the line (to form a chevron). The angle between the radii is the angle between your eccentrics. Bob's your uncle.

The designer may well have reduced the angle a smidgen to provide a bit of 'lead' or advance opening of the valve a few degrees before top dead.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 13, 2017)

Thank you gentlemen-My knowledge of steam engine valve setting so far, extends to the eccentric position relative to the crankshaft and the slide valve relative to it's position in the steamchest. The "throw" of the eccentric should be equal to 1/4 of the "throw" on the crankshaft. My crankshaft has a "throw" of 3/8" (which gives a total stroke of 3/4"). The "throw" on my eccentric is .094" which gives the slide valve a total travel of .188" .  When the piston is at bottom dead center, the eccentric lobe should be half way thru it's highest and lowest points of travel (that is how you position the eccentric rotationally in respect to the crankshaft. Also, at this time and position, the slide valve should be exactly half way thru it's full travel (3/16") in the steamchest. This method has always worked well for me. The set up for reversing apparently follows exactly the same procedure when setting up with the straight rod directly below the valve rod vertically. When the reversing handle is rotated thru 30 degrees, this brings the offset rod into position directly below the valve rod and hopefully makes the engine run in reverse. I think I've got it, but will only know when I have everything reassembled. I'm a bit unclear what happens at the other cylinder, as the crankshaft is 90 degrees "out of phase" yet is still connected to the same reversing lever.


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## stragenmitsuko (Nov 13, 2017)

There's a guy on youtube :  Keith Appleton , and  he has several  videos
explaining in detail how to set the timing . 

Keep up the good work ,  lovely as always . 

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 13, 2017)

Here is a short video of me practicing my Canadian Newfie accent and demonstrating the working of my first stage of reversing mechanism.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2UiP4gDUKE[/ame]


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 13, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> Thank you gentlemen-My knowledge of steam engine valve setting so far, extends to the eccentric position relative to the crankshaft and the slide valve relative to it's position in the steamchest. The "throw" of the eccentric should be equal to 1/4 of the "throw" on the crankshaft.



No, Brian. These are completely independent issues.



> My crankshaft has a "throw" of 3/8" (which gives a total stroke of 3/4"). The "throw" on my eccentric is .094" which gives the slide valve a total travel of .188".


So it is a 1/4 in this case, but that is a coincidence.



> When the piston is at bottom dead center, the eccentric lobe should be half way thru it's highest and lowest points of travel (that is how you position the eccentric rotationally in respect to the crankshaft. Also, at this time and position, the slide valve should be exactly half way thru it's full travel (3/16") in the steamchest. This method has always worked well for me.


No. It would be true if the valve exactly covered the ports, with none of the 'lap' I explained earlier. In that case the eccentrics would be set 90 degrees ahead of the crank in each direction, 180 degrees apart.

If the valve has lap (as yours must have, for the design to show the eccentrics 120 degrees apart) the eccentric needs to be advanced in the direction of rotation further than 90 degrees. With the piston on dead centre the eccentric is advanced until the port is just uncovered. That was the point of the drawing I described above (which was described thinking of top dead centre, which I personally find easier).



> The set up for reversing apparently follows exactly the same procedure when setting up with the straight rod directly below the valve rod vertically. When the reversing handle is rotated thru 30 degrees, this brings the offset rod into position directly below the valve rod and hopefully makes the engine run in reverse.


Yes.



> I think I've got it, but will only know when I have everything reassembled. I'm a bit unclear what happens at the other cylinder, as the crankshaft is 90 degrees "out of phase" yet is still connected to the same reversing lever.


That will depend on whether the two pairs of eccentrics are identical or handed, but either way, if you get it wrong and it does not run, you can just swap the eccentric rod connections to the expansion link at one end.

Hope this helps.

Charles


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 13, 2017)

Alright Charles--You have shown me the error of my ways. You are indeed correct that the stroke of the steam valve is what determines the "throw" on the eccentric, and is not directly related to the "throw" of the crankshaft. I'm sure that there is some esoteric science that explains why steamchests would be longer or shorter, requiring a greater or lesser "stroke" of the steam valve, but it is a road I don't really want to go down right now.  As far as "lap" and "lead" are concerned, I have a glimmer of why this would be so, as it relates to internal combustion engines where the valves don't open and close when the piston is exactly at top or bottom dead center. I have always set my model "steam" engines up with the steam valve positioned exactly in the center of it's travel when the piston is either at top or bottom dead center, and that has always worked for me.  I will let you know how that works out with this engine.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 13, 2017)

A short video of the complete Stephensons reversing linkage on my engine.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84W3HiL-je4[/ame]


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## Herbiev (Nov 13, 2017)

Another great build Brian. Well done.


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 13, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> I have always set my model "steam" engines up with the steam valve positioned exactly in the center of it's travel when the piston is either at top or bottom dead center, and that has always worked for me.



 That does mean the piston will already be some way down its stroke and  starting to pull a vacuum before the valve opens and lets any steam (or air) in.

You asked the question about valve setting and I have taken a fair bit of trouble yesterday and today answering it for you. Evidently wasted.

Nice build, though.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 13, 2017)

Charles--Nothing you said was wasted. If you read post #224 you will see that I said I have a "glimmer" of what you mean by lap and lead. I read every answer to every one of my posts, across three different forums. Steam engines are not the main focus of my life, but a part none the less of what I do for a hobby. I get many diverse answers and explanations from people, some who have real "in depth" knowledge and some who are complete idiots. I take it all into consideration, and let it sift down through the grey matter until I can form my own consensus of what I have been told.


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 15, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> ... I get many diverse answers and explanations from people, some who have real "in depth" knowledge and some who are complete idiots. ...



I fully sympathise with that.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 15, 2017)

This thing is kicking my butt!! After adding all the little bits and pieces, now I can't get it to run at all. :cussing: :cussing: I've decided to go back to basics and completely isolate one cylinder and to get it running on one cylinder first, then isolate the running cylinder and set up the other one. This works great if I can get it running on one cylinder, which so far is eluding me. I must be getting close, because in one position that the valve was set, it oscillated. Flywheel didn't go all the way around---It sat there and went back and forth. That's something I haven't seen before. It seems that the secret is getting the steam valve into the right position, which for me has always been at the center of it's travel when the piston is at bottom dead center. Of course the problem is that with the steamchest cover plate in place, you can't see where the valve is, so you have to resort to measuring the amount of steam valve rod extending beyond the gland nut, in it's maximum and minimum positions, then decide on the "happy medium" and set the engine up to run that way.---And of course this may not be accurate either, because without being able to actually see the steam valve, I don't really know if it's centered or offset to one end or the other of where it should be in the steamchest.


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## 10K Pete (Nov 15, 2017)

Make a lucite cover plate....

Pete


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 15, 2017)

You don't need air on to set the valve. Take the steamchest cover off and do it visually.

(And I don't care what you have done in the past, do it like I tell you! 

1, set the valve spindle for equal maximum port opening top and bottom, irrespective of timing, as well as the half-turn adjustment will allow;

 2, set the eccentric to just crack the top port open at top dead. At this stage forget about the other eccentric rod that is swung out of the way.)

Have you made the eccentrics independent, or in one piece? If they are in one piece, what is the angle between them? Not that this matters while you are trying to get it to run in any direction at all.

This puppy* is going to run*.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 15, 2017)

I have thought of making a Lucite cover plate. I may yet. Okay Charles, I'll try it your way. What are you calling the "valve spindle"? The parts I have are the valve itself, the "valve nut", the rod which travels from the valve nut down to the brass end that connects to the arced plate. When I set it to mid travel, what position should the eccentric be in? The eccentric are pinned to each other at 120 degrees lobe separation. The arc in the plate has a 30 degree included angle.


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## fcheslop (Nov 15, 2017)

This may help although its exactly what has already been mentioned
cheers 

View attachment SM-Timing.pdf


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 15, 2017)

Brian Rupnow said:


> I have thought of making a Lucite cover plate. I may yet. Okay Charles, I'll try it your way. What are you calling the "valve spindle"? The parts I have are the valve itself, the "valve nut", the rod which travels from the valve nut down to the brass end that connects to the arced plate. When I set it to mid travel, what position should the eccentric be in? The eccentric are pinned to each other at 120 degrees lobe separation. The arc in the plate has a 30 degree included angle.


Valve rod/valve spindle. Don't set it to mid travel. Set it so the rotating eccentric causes the valve to open an equal amount at each end. At this stage the timing does not matter. When that is done, set piston at top dead and set the eccentrics equal either side pointing downwards so each one is 60° from vertically down. That is it.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 15, 2017)

*AWRIGHT!!!* We've-got foreword and reverse on one cylinder. Hooray Hooray---Happy Dance. Thank you Charles.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 16, 2017)

Progress report. I have everything back together but the cylinder closest to the flywheel is still acting quite wimpy. I need a break from this before I break out in hives!!! I have to go across town now and do some business, and maybe when I get home later I can try a teensy bit of adjusting on the eccentric on that underperforming side. If I'm really, really lucky, that may be all it takes. Hope--hope.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 16, 2017)

Today we had success. The engine ran on both cylinders, forward and then reverse. It's not video worthy yet, but it certainly made my old heart go pitter patter. I had a tough time getting the eccentrics set in the correct position on the second cylinder. I could get it to run, but only clockwise. then I would adjust it a little bit and it would only run counterclockwise. Finally, I played "Around the clock" and moved it in 20 degree increments until I found the sweet spot, where it would run in either direction as dictated by the reversing levers position and in concert with the first cylinder. At the end of the day I scrounged around in my shop until I found a piece of steel to make a second flywheel. I'm not sure if I actually need it or not, but even if I only use it during "set-up" procedures you can never have too many extra flywheels around.


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## Charles Lamont (Nov 16, 2017)

So did you not follow the same procedure with the second end as the first? Equal port openings as before? Then set piston at top dead and the eccentrics downward at 60° either side?

For valve setting and timing you treat it as two independent engines, that just happen to be joined together at the middle of the crankshaft.

As I said before, and as others have explained (I read MEM too) you may then end up with each end trying to go in opposite directions, in which case, at one end only, swap the connections of the eccentric rods over so that they are at the opposite ends of their expansion link.

Get it right and this engine should turn over sweetly at just above zero revs with no flywheel.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 16, 2017)

Charles, I set up the second cylinder exactly as I did the first cylinder. The second cylinder has the two eccentrics pinned together, same as the first cylinder. There was a bit of confusion because of the "opposite handedness" of the second cylinder. I'm not 100% sure that I have it totally right, but I did find a point where the engine would run both forward and reverse. I have more work to do on the engine yet, but todays results were very promising. I have a second flywheel up on the lathe as I write this, but I'm not really sure if I need it or not.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2017)

Okay kiddies--Here we go!! A running and reversing, all bar stock engine. Thank you so much to all of the forum members who stepped up and offered assistance when I was trying to figure out how to make the reversing mechanism work. Someone please give me a heads up if you can see the video alright.---Brian
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-oKiCXyFyE[/ame]


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## werowance (Nov 17, 2017)

Video plays fine.

very nicely done.  how the reversing mechanisim works just amazes me.


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## stragenmitsuko (Nov 17, 2017)

a BIG :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thx for sharing the build with  us . 


Will there by any chance a set of plans made available ? 
This seems like a perfect candidate for me to try a cored casting someday . 

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2017)

In order to cover some of my costs in building this model, I will sell a complete set of my drawings for $25 Canadian.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2017)

I see that my first post on this engine was on the 4th of September. That's two and one half months of my life that demanded work on the engine just about every day. I'm sure that many were bored to tears with my posts from almost every day, but they mostly all showed the constant development of the engine. It was fun, taught me a few things, and was a nice break from i.c. engines. I still want to develop a nice intake and exhaust set-up for this engine, but I'm relieved that it is 99% finished and that it ran. This is the first time I have downloaded a 3D model from someone I don't know and have never met, and created drawings and working components from it. Whoever created that 3D model did an excellent job. I found one very minor error, and that was all. When you consider the vast quantity of math data that goes into developing  accurate 3D models, this guy was first class. Thank you to all who commented or helped out along the way. The fat lady hasn't sang yet, there will be a few more posts showing the intake and exhaust manifolds, but we are almost thru here. It's been a great build.


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## werowance (Nov 17, 2017)

you never bore me Brian.  days where you didn't post on it I was in withdrawal.  even if it were just a 4-40 flat head screw you made I would have wanted to see it.   I have picked up a lot from you and many others on this forum,  my machine work has started to improve as well because of it,  you all take the time to explain and show things which helps me learn and adapt the techniques to other projects I make myself.  

do you by chance have a listing of the different plans you have for sale? maybe a website to browse them or a posting in the 4 sale area here?


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2017)

No, Werowance, I don't. The whole concept of selling plans for my engines is relatively new. For the first 5 or 6 years I posted the plans free. Now that I am retired, I find the cost of building these engines at $125 to $200 each is more than I like to bear, so selling the engine plans helps to defray some of my cost. My four most recent engines which I sell plans for are the steam engine featured in this article, the "Rockerblock engine (i.c.), the overhead cam engine (i.c.), and the single cylinder vertical engine (i.c.). If you do a search of this forum under my name, it will help you to locate the build threads on these engines. The overhead cam engine is one of my favourites.--Brian


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## bazmak (Nov 17, 2017)

The video is great Brian,thank you for sharing.As you say that the reversing
mechanism is very tricky to make with lots of small parts.I am glad mine
is bigger with only additional links to finish.Hope life gives me time to finish and get it running.As you say making models is an expensive business and i cant 
fault you on wanting to make a nom charge for your drawings.I too watch all your posts with interest. Mayhugh with his spitfire V12 and Buchanan with his clock are top of my list simply because they are so far ahead in their field
Your posts are friendly and interesting and are within the abilities/scope of most
of us.May you keep forever keep posting


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2017)

Thanks Bazmak--that's a very kind thing to say. I always worry a bit that I'm putting too much detail into my posts and boring the old hands here. Then I think back to seven years ago when I had just started machining as a hobby, and this is exactly the kind of detailed build that I wanted to see then.


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## bazmak (Nov 17, 2017)

The posts i find most interesting are the ones with a little light humour,a few questions and answers,and people putting their twopennoth in.And most of all the ones with someone giving a helping hand and kind word
Needless to say i follow all your posts even though most are IC which i have never got into. You mentioned you had retired from full time employment?


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## Rickl (Nov 18, 2017)

Never bore me Brian. An intriguing gear to build would the Greenly valve gear.
Rick
Sth. Australia.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2017)

Bazmac-I did retire from full employment when I was 65 .Spent a few months doing nothing but reading and watching tv and building small working engine models. This simply wasn't enough to keep me busy and challenge my mind. I found that you can't spend ALL your time building model engines or it loses it's appeal. You really do have to take a 4 to 6 or even 8 week break between them. A few of my old customers approached me and wanted me to act as a consulting design engineer for them on a part time basis, so I've been working 2 or 3 days a week for them. I find now that my life is kind of a balancing act between "real work" and  "hobby work" and some "down time".


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## Foozer (Nov 18, 2017)

I always follow along, you sound so tickled when your model runs. Like when I show the bride some silly thing I made with the 'Look what I can do' grin . . .

Robert


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2017)

Foozer said:


> I always follow along, you sound so tickled when your model runs. Like when I show the bride some silly thing I made with the 'Look what I can do' grin . . .
> 
> Robert


That's because I always am pleased (and a little surprised) when they do run!!!


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## 10K Pete (Nov 18, 2017)

I enjoy your posts, Brian, because you don't do the usual in the usual way. There's always some faffing about with engines but you seem to come up with ways to make it run. Warts and All.

Keep the dirty side down,

Pete


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2017)

I have a bunch of hexagon brass rods 7/16" across the flats which my friend gave me last year for fixing his motorcycle sprocket. I think they will make pretty cool looking intake and exhaust manifolds.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2017)

Just a little bit of Loctiting/soldering/hole plugging/polishing, and the beast will have manifolds.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2017)

I've silver soldered as much as I dare. This goes into my citric acid pickle solution now and sets overnight. Tomorrow I will "dress" the ends of the hexagon parts , clean up any remaining crud with a brass bristle brush, then Loctite things into place on the engine.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 20, 2017)

And this, gentlemen, is THE END! The manifolds turned out very nice, the engine runs in forward and reverse, the project is completely finished. Thank you to all who have tagged along for this build.---Brian


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## stragenmitsuko (Nov 20, 2017)

The hexagon looks great . 

You should engrave your name on them . 

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 21, 2017)

Yeah, I know. I said I was done with this but "Idle hands are the devil's workshop" my grandma used to say---
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGLXclJdPI0&t=13s[/ame]


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## grapegro (Nov 22, 2017)

Brian, having trouble viewing your videos. They come out as a black square. Can you explain what the problem is please, Norm


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 22, 2017)

grapegrow--sorry, I have no idea. Everyone else can see them.--Brian


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## Cogsy (Nov 22, 2017)

grapegro said:


> Brian, having trouble viewing your videos. They come out as a black square. Can you explain what the problem is please, Norm


 
It's an issue with Internet Explorer and the forum. Try a different browser and you will be able to see them.


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## Ghosty (Nov 23, 2017)

grapegro said:


> Brian, having trouble viewing your videos. They come out as a black square. Can you explain what the problem is please, Norm


 Youtube / Google want you to use there Chrome browser, That is the problem, when you log on to your youtube account you will see the strip at the top of the page suggesting to download and install Chrome.
Just right click on the black square and click properties, copy URL address and paste in your browser and watch

Cheers
Andrew


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