# A temporary solution I kind of like.



## Kludge (Sep 13, 2008)

Okay, we've seen shops stuffed into corners and all but I _think_ I can beat everyone on small.

Okay, first - the overall shop at a rather odd angle:







That lower section's about 19" wide and 2' tall, and is about 3" off the ground to allow for the rollers. The upper one is 16" wide and 10" tall. I work standing, sitting in a hyper-elevated student chair and, when I get it back, a stool.

Where the little boxes are now to the right of the upper section will be a second bench vise, with slightly wider jaws.

And now for some of the tools:






These two are on the top & bottom of the right set of drawers. None of the punches are in this shot nor are all of the bench steel (and a couple brass) staking anvils. The holding things are a bit out of the ordinary so I figured I'd include them as well. 






The upper tool drawer. These reside on the middle deck of the lower section of the bench. On the left are a portion of the pin vises, in the middle are some of the tweezers, and on the right a bunch of different small staking punches. The chrome-like container has some very, very small ones which sometimes require the services of both lenses on my clip-on loupe.

For scaling, each section is a quarter plus one on edge wide.






On the left are lubrication tools with pithwood and pegwood stock. NExt to them are my slips and then the wooden polishing sticks. To the right of them are broaches (some of which we'll see in a bit), files and burnishers. 

Side note: Pithwood is usually cut into small pieces and used for things like drying and cleaning the oilers next to them. Just stick the pin in and it's done. Peg wood has a variety of uses like having a sliver cut out for cleaning out holes in gears or pivots. 






These are the broaches which are kind of like really small reamers. I scattered a few quarters around as the common unit of measurement for them.






Bottom section: smaller grippy things and solder, both soft and silver. In between is the shellac that gets melted to hold things in place.

Middle section: two more staking anvils and the taps & die plates (screw plates) that range from .6 to 2.0mm ... and another quarter. On top are an incomplete set of drills. I still have coming a set that ranges from .3 to 2mm in .05mm steps. 






This is my K&D staking set, although I can't find this frame in any of their old catalogs. There are 90-something stakes and 20-something stumps which pretty much allows me to customize it to my needs. This helps a lot when I need to do something dead bang on while the handheld ones find use in places where I can have a little freedom in dead-bang-onishness.

So much for the tools. Let's look at bits and pieces for a moment.






Big drawer: Gears, gears and more gears. To the top left are magnets and some really thin brass washers used in watch & clock making. 

Little drawer: small bits of spokes and brass & nickel-silver lathes stock. At the top left & center are the adjustment thingies.






Big drawer: Across the front are the quartz watch innards that are going to yield up tiny electromagnets plus some tiny electromagnets that don't have a home. The top right sectioncontains relays which ... yep, more electromagnets. At this rate, it may be a while before I actually have to use any of my really small wire to turn any. 

Little drawer: More lathe stock - spokes on the left, brass in the middle and nickel-silver on the right.






Big drawer: For the most part DC and stepper motors and R/C servoes of varying sizes. The top right section has the plastic rollers out of cigarette rolling machines and next to them are a couple of bellows from cuckoo clocks.

Little drawer: The left hand three tubes have more brass (and a little nickel silver) lathe stock, the wooden one is one of the ones holding broaches but wouldn't fit anywhere else, the glass one's empty but has the same problem and the right one has a bunch of mainsprings which are useful for a great number of things.






There are four quarters in this picture. 

The smooth silvery round things in the lower right side of the picture aren't gears but rather balance wheels. They came from the factory in perfect balance so all a watch repairer had to do was add the hairspring and reinstall the balance. This feature makes using them as kind of flywheels a possibility.

The large ones next to the wooden tray are clock gears which will go into Noelle-machines with the large pocket watch gears. The smaller ones, most of which still need to be separated out, are for "bragging machines", the ones which push my ability to work small.






On the far right are hairsprings, the dark ones for watches and the brass ones for clocks. This shot also shows the balance wheels a bit better so the drilling used to balance them shows up better.

I think this qualifies as a really compact shop. 

Best regards,

Kludge


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## ksouers (Sep 13, 2008)

Gosh, mister! That's a lot of little fiddly bits!

Honestly, that's a very nice workstation. Neat and organized. Lot's of places for things.
Unfortunately I've got more things than places.

I do like the cabinetry. Did you make it?


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## tmuir (Sep 14, 2008)

From the first picture of the tools I thought that looks like watchmakers and jewellers tools and the further down the page we went the more watchmaker goodies I saw.

My grandfather and my great grandfather were both watchmakers and I have a small amount of their tools and several of their repair books with the oldest one from the 1890s.
Back then watchmakers were really WATCHMAKERS not watch repairers like now.
In my oldest book one chaper is how to turn some iron wire into a main spring by running it through succsessive draw bars and hardening and tempering the wire by heating it in charcole for a day to add carbon to it before cutting to size and winding up the main spring.

When I finally get back to trying to learn watch repairs I will keep you in mind for spare parts. :big:

My entire watch repair tool kit (excluding my watch makers lathe) fits inside a small tackle box so no where nearly as impressive as yours.


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## Kludge (Sep 14, 2008)

ksouers  said:
			
		

> Gosh, mister! That's a lot of little fiddly bits!



Yep. And I didn't show all of them. Three of the four boxes on top of the three drawer cab contain glass bottles with even more stuff in them. There are more bottles elsewhere and three multisection plastic containers of material yet to be bagged or bottled. Etc. Lots of etc. On top of that, there are cigar boxes of material (also more or less sorted and bottled or bagged) off camera. And if that weren't enough, the cabs don't go full depth so there's additional stroage in back for things like the alcohol lamps.



> Honestly, that's a very nice workstation. Neat and organized. Lot's of places for things.



Thank you. I initially set it up as a temporary solution until I get my main workbench in operation again. But I like it so much I'm going to keep it for the really small work, just swapping out the top part when I'm actually working on watches. (The other one has the special tools et al for tearing down, cleaning, lubricating and reassembling the Timex & dollar watches I like to play with.)

The lathes currently set up are at http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=20.msg25976#msg25976 if you'd like to see them.



> Unfortunately I've got more things than places.



This is where I started out. Actually, I'm still there but I'm gaining on it. 



> I do like the cabinetry. Did you make it?



Unless you count the DIY utility stand holding it all, not a stick. The top section is a watchmaker's bench topper and the wooden boxes that aren't cigar boxes were for watch repair material. The three drawer wooden unit used to hold watch crystals and the steel two drawer I think was for Bulova watch parts. The steel four drawer is of unknown heritage and the staking set's box is original. The bases for the lathes were breadboards at one time since they're a nice premade hardwood deck. 

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Kludge (Sep 14, 2008)

tmuir  said:
			
		

> From the first picture of the tools I thought that looks like watchmakers and jewellers tools and the further down the page we went the more watchmaker goodies I saw.



Yep. Nothing else is small enough to do what I like to do. 



> My grandfather and my great grandfather were both watchmakers and I have a small amount of their tools and several of their repair books with the oldest one from the 1890s.



Then you probably recognized a bunch of what I showed and would a lot of what I didn't show. I have to admit a degree of *drool* factor over the books, though. 

My other two lathes are a Derbyshire 10mm and a Lorch Geneva-type 6mm. The Derby is a Magnus short bed. I have the long bed for an Elect which I'd rather were for the Magnus. Unfortunately they aren't interchangeable.



> Back then watchmakers were really WATCHMAKERS not watch repairers like now.



Ironically, one of the requirements to graduate from the few remaining horological schools still in existance is to design and build a watch (or clock, I think) from raw materials. They train the very few real watchmakers who then go on to apprenticeship under the few experienced watchmakers left, most of whom are in Europe. The watches they create sell for five digit figures.



> In my oldest book one chaper is how to turn some iron wire into a main spring by running it through succsessive draw bars and hardening and tempering the wire by heating it in charcole for a day to add carbon to it before cutting to size and winding up the main spring.



I know of the process but have never tried it, though I may pick up some draw plates to resize some brass wire. By the way, the same process was used to create pocket watch case springs - the ones used to open the covers. Hmmm ... I wonder if Kingsford briquets would work. 



> When I finally get back to trying to learn watch repairs I will keep you in mind for spare parts. :big:



Mine aren't in any useful order except for making my mini & micro-machines. Tom Mister at Dashto (http://www.dashto.com/) has parts in far better order _and_ he can even find them 



> My entire watch repair tool kit (excluding my watch makers lathe) fits inside a small tackle box so no where nearly as impressive as yours.



I can put the actual tools used for watch repair (Timex and dollar watches) into the same space though it's all in a bench topper like the one I use for this mini work area. All I really do now is clean and oil (and hope it's enough) although my shining "victory" was to put a NOS Timex quartz movement into an 18S pocket watch case. I made wide hands like an aircraft clock and adapted a face with large numbers to work with the combination. This watch went to my daughter so she had a watch she could read. (Along with everything else, her vision is failing.) 

Along with the Timex and dollar watch movements, which are generally considered throw away movements, I have an assortment of other complete but not working movements including a few Bulovas and other "names" plus a bunch of emty cases & bands/straps. (A couple of my Timexes went into non-Timex cases just because the combinations looked good.) 

However, the big reason for all my goodies is itty bitty machines to entertain and to keep my mind (or what's left of it) and eye-hand coordination sharp.

Best regards,

Kludge


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## Stan (Sep 14, 2008)

Is your plan to build micro miniature engines?


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## malcolmt (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi Folks
Seeing all those pictures makes my eyes water, I have been in the building trades all my working life (Qualified electrician/ Plumber/ registered gas installer) unfortunately due to progressive arthritis i can no longer work in the trade. so after much thinking and soul searching i have decided to qualify as a watchmaker and clockmaker through the British Horological Institute. I have been gathering together some of the tools etc, Wow they fetch very high prices. however as the saying goes "slowly slowly catchee monkey" 

To see all that watchmaking equipment in one place does me good. What a fine collection Very nicely stowed away, thanks for showing us Kludge.

Kind regards

Malcolm


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## rickharris (Sep 14, 2008)

The quartz watches have a handy micro stepper motor in them which can do useful work if driven at a higher frequency - this can be done with a handy microprocessor. www.picaxe.com is a good place to start.

many people make micro robots from them.


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## Kludge (Sep 14, 2008)

Stan  said:
			
		

> Is your plan to build micro miniature engines?



Those will be the "bragging engines" and will take a lot more time to make. The larger ones will be for my daughter Noelle to help take her mind off her illnesses and give her something to smile about even if its just for a moment. I love my little girl (30 years old, 5'-9" ... but daughters are always Daddy's "little girl") so making the Noelle-machines is from my heart, for my heart. Besides, I get a kick out of spoiling her rotten. 

Malcolm, you may want to look about for sources of used tools & equipment. A great number of old watchmakers are dying or closing shop so estate sales and the like may be a useful source. The gentleman I buy from buys up estates and the contents of closed shops which makes it easy to get bunches of neat toys from a single source on the cheap. He also used to do watch repair ("lathe era") but now his hands shake too much so he went into busines selling tools & stuff.

Rick, a 555 timer will do it too if all one wants to do is let them free run like for a BEAM bot. One of the smallest BEAM bots made was powered by two lady's quartz movements (one for each drive wheel) driven by a common SMD 555. On the flip side, I've been thinking about picking up a Picaxe or two to play with so this may be a good excuse ... er, reason to do so. 

My approach will be slightly different. I'm going to be slicing the poles of the electromagnets down to allow me to use one pole to draw in a guided piece of steel so the combination acts as a regular solenoid of unusual form. There are actually several forms of motor that can be super-miniaturized using these coils which makes them a lot more funner to play with. 

By the way, I hope everyone appreciates that I used the HMEM Standard Unit of Measurement, a quarter, for a number of the pictures. ;D

BEst regards,

Kludge


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## tmuir (Sep 26, 2008)

Missed your reply before.
I wish there was somewhere near where I libe that still taught watch repair.
A TAFE not that far from me 5 years ago still had a sign on a room saying 'Watch Repair Class' but they stopped running it long ago. 

I've got a small collection of Elgins and Walthams waiting for the day I find the time and skill to fix them.


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## Kludge (Sep 27, 2008)

tmuir  said:
			
		

> Missed your reply before.



Nice thing about forums; replies stick around. 



> I wish there was somewhere near where I libe that still taught watch repair.



The number of schools is declining too fast for comfort. Several beginning books on watch repair exist as well as books by people like Fried that are a bit above the starting level. The starting point is a simple disassemble, clean, reassemble and lubricate which gets you familiar with the innards and comfortable with working with tiny bits.



> I've got a small collection of Elgins and Walthams waiting for the day I find the time and skill to fix them.



The largest reason for stoppage of old movements is dirt and/or loss of lubrication. (After that comes things like broken balance staffs and other yuckie stuff.) Not many tools are needed to correct this and it's a lot of fun. Check item 008.104 at Dashto (www.dashto.com) ... and, no, I have absolutely no financial interest in them; I'm just a very happy customer. The only other thing you'll need is a cheap ultrasonic jewelry cleaner (from WalMart or your local equivalent) for the cleaning part. 

Isn't this fun?

By the way, I'm looking at some odd things for walking beams - bamboo chopsticks and model ship double tapered spars. Now if I could find a place for the used wooden match sticks. ;D

BEst regards,

Kludge


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## Maryak (Sep 27, 2008)

Kludge,

You can build a whole damn boat with matchsticks! and you sure must have plenty of patience, working with all those tiny bits.

Bob :bow:


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## Kludge (Sep 27, 2008)

Maryak  said:
			
		

> You can build a whole damn boat with matchsticks!



Hmmm ... you're right. Let's see ... STARDANCER (houseboat I lived aboard for 5 years) was 42' LOA with a 13' beam. Keel to main deck was about 7'. The superstructure was a boxy 10-1/2'x30'x7-1/2'. That's a lot of match sticks. :big:



> and you sure must have plenty of patience, working with all those tiny bits.



I don't know if it's patience so much as a desire to push myself to new limits while letting my sense of humor play. But I've always enjoyed playing with little bits so I'm pretty much at home with these too.

Best regards,

Kludge


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## wareagle (Sep 28, 2008)

Kludge,

It looks like you have three lifetime's worth of options on your hands! Most I would imagine have a stock pile of steel, aluminum and brass in their coffers but the things you have displayed are unique for our typical uses. I like that because I know that there will be some interesting creations come out of your shop! Very well organized I might add!

Can't wait to see more!!!


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## Kludge (Sep 28, 2008)

wareagle  said:
			
		

> It looks like you have three lifetime's worth of options on your hands! Most I would imagine have a stock pile of steel, aluminum and brass in their coffers but the things you have displayed are unique for our typical uses. I like that because I know that there will be some interesting creations come out of your shop!



Someone (a friend) once said I march to a different drummer. Another corrected him, saying I have an entire ruddy band and what I'm doing isn't even close to marching. (Okay, "ruddy" wasn't precisely the term - actually phrase - used but it's the general idea.) 

In looking at the engines here and elsewhere, I'm seeing them through my sometimes unique prespective and sense of humor. I am a great lover of the occasionally absurd but I also see them as someone who used to make kinetic art (of a sort - it required a motor of some type as often as not.), as a science fiction writer & fan, and as someone who had to make do a lot growing up so building things from unlikely materials became second nature. All of these have contributed to the spin I put on things ... which tends to wobble a lot. 



> Very well organized I might add!



it's about the only thing organized here at the moment. I had to set this up because Murphy hasn't given my regular shop back but I like the way this turned out so I'm likely to keep this as an adjunct to it.



> Can't wait to see more!!!



Hmmm ... about that ... 

Somewhere I mentioned that the engines will be more or less steampunk (aka: Neo-Victorian) machines. But they also could be post-apocalyptic where rudimentary electricity and steam (more accurately, pressurized gas) power are all that exist. There's oil but it's crude - no refineries are in operation anymore - and it's closely guarded in some few locations controlled under some form or another of local government, mostly petty dictatorships and the like operating under a variety of names. The few remaining commercial scale hydroelectric plants are under the same sort of control which leaves the majority of the survivors of whatever calamity took place to fend for themselves. 

There's no internal combustion but at least civilization has dug itself out to the point of being able to generate electricity (windmills or waterfalls and automobile alternators) and raise steam (low pressure boilers of every sort including wooden). Two sorts of people are in high demand, those who can make or fix things (that's us) and people who can grow things. 

The lack of proper material would account for the rather odd assortment and arrangement of parts used as well as the somewhat "rustic" appearance. This is a slightly different take on steampunk, putting it into a dystopian world instead of a more romantic time like the Victorian era but it gets me around some of the sticky problems like explaining the use of wood in unusual applications like connecting rods. 

(The above description is an edit from a blog entry I'm working on.)

I do want to pick up some thin brass strip for a few bits for the Noelle-machines but I'm also using bits of tin (steel) or aluminium (Please note the British spelling. ) can where I usually would use brass strip to add to the deblinging of several of the engines. 

Doesn't all this sound like fun?

Best regards,

Kludge


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