# has the price of steam engine castings gone up with COVID



## HenryBanjo (Jan 3, 2022)

I've been looking into making an engine from castings, but ive noticed that the castings kits are quite expensive for what they are, for example the Stuart Victoria kit costs well over £300, epically once you include shipping to me out in NZ and at that price its probably almost enough to get a basic casting setup. im wondering if before covid these prices where lower (I haven't been doing model engineering since before coivd) and if i should wait for them to go back down or if thats what they always cost.


----------



## Eccentric (Jan 3, 2022)

Henry,

If I were you I would not wait until casting prices go down to get your project underway.  Yes they are expensive, but if you amoritize the cost over the time you will be building your engine you will be getting a great deal on your enjoyment.  Compare the cost to some other activities you do, trips, dinners out, going to the movies.  I think 300 will be cheap when comparing value per hour.

Selling castings is a very niche market, the volume is low and there is not much competition.  With global inflation and these market forces, I do not see the price coming down, at least not much and not soon.

I say get your project going and don't worry about the cost too much.  If cost is a concern, consider building from the solid.

Good luck


----------



## Jasonb (Jan 3, 2022)

There is a lot of the victoria that could be done without their castings, barstock and fixings. Depends how much you want to make from scratch. I worked it out a while ago for the twin Victoria and it came out about 1/3rd the price if you bought just the cylinders and flywheels.  You even get better value per hour.


----------



## abby (Jan 3, 2022)

Add to the above that energy prices have gone through the roof and casting is very energy consuming.
Dan.


----------



## sawyer massey (Jan 3, 2022)

To give you an idea ......the picture is 30lb of iron 
20$ in fuel .....40 hours in the patterns or more and 30 or better in machining ......bought castings are cheap


----------



## Richard Hed (Jan 4, 2022)

sawyer massey said:


> To give you an idea ......the picture is 30lb of iron
> 20$ in fuel .....40 hours in the patterns or more and 30 or better in machining ......bought castings are cheap


Don't forget, however, that foundry work itself is a lot of funz.


----------



## Jasonb (Jan 4, 2022)

For one offs and small runs the pattern making time will always be high, but take Stuarts for example those patterns have produced hundreds of castings so become a very small percentage of the overall cost. Thy will also pouring a lot of parts at a time with a better foundry so that is more efficient too. Machining time is irrelevant to the cost of the castings.

I build a lot of engines with a combination of cutting from solid and fabricating though they still look like they were from castings and generally cost for all materials works out about 1/3rd of what it would for the equivalent castings and barstock. I also don't need to worry about hard spots, undersize castings, poor joint lines etc.

With fuel costs going up I doubt you will ever see the cost of castings come down so buy now.


----------



## mole42 (Jan 4, 2022)

One of the factors is that in the last couple of years all imported raw material prices in the UK have risen due to Brexit and associated extra paperwork. In my business we have seen an uplift of 25% which seems to be fairly average across the board. I don't think the price of castings is going down any time soon!


----------



## stanstocker (Jan 4, 2022)

Richard Hed said:


> Don't forget, however, that foundry work itself is a lot of funz.



Yes, but don't forget that it's fun when done for fun or as part of an enjoyable hobby.  Done for a living it's hot, dirty, and sometimes dangerous work.

As in the original post, some castings and kits, particularly cast iron parts, have increased noticeably over the last two years.  I also know that many foundries have closed. Sometimes for economic reasons, sometimes for political ones.  There is at least one US based pattern maker / casting vendor on group who is known for having excellent quality castings.  Perhaps he will choose to share the impacts of lost foundries, covid, and increased material and energy costs on his business and pricing.

It seems unlikely that casting kits will come down in price.  Over the hundred plus hours you might put into a model engine, I guess if the casting cost amortizes to $3 USD or 3UKP an hour it's not so big a deal, but it certainly feels like a big hit when you make the initial purchase.  Working from stock material may make the costs more palatable, but raw stock isn't very low cost either, and you tend to accumulate left over material in weird lengths and shapes.  Useful in some cases, too expensive to toss, often just the wrong size for use in the current project stuff to store. 

Cheers,
Stan


----------



## patternmaker (Jan 4, 2022)

Tales from the patternshop ...........
We just had to raise prices on everything.... and it was very painful to do so.  Here are some of the reasons:

1. The very last Mom n Pop iron foundry in Oregon closed in September while I was on a trip to South Dakota for the Black Hills Model Engineering Show. The day after returning, I rushed down to the foundry to pick up all my patterns there and ship them off to out of state foundries. They are now 5 hours north in Washington and 12 hours south in California. ( Instead of 20 minutes away) So shipping charges have gone way up and these foundries are more expensive to have castings done. 

2. The price of bronze has gone through the roof. In less than a year, the raw cost has gone up over a dollar a pound, in a couple of weeks it went up almost half a dollar.

3. Supply chain issues and trouble keeping workers in the foundries is another issue. I have had some castings on order since October, but the foundry has been shut down on and off or working much less than a full crew with because of Covid restrictions and the weather. I have had to order and try to keep more castings in stock as i do not want to run out. Keeping more in stock costs more money. I have about 2 tons of iron castings here now.

4.  I get all all my iron castings Fully annealed to try to avoid the hard "crust" and other hard spots to make it easier for home machinists. The cost for annealing is over a dollar a pound now.

5. I have been asked why I don't have my castings made in China because it would be cheaper.. My answer: I will burn all of my patterns before I sell out to that evil empire.

Buy the way, in 1980 there were about 320 foundries in Washington State. There are now less than 30. That is counting the one man shops.
So buy them now because they may not be here tomorrow.

Gary Martin
Martin Model & Pattern


----------



## littlelocos (Jan 4, 2022)

Gary, well said.  We are seeing the same thing here in our area on the East Coast.  For us, it's on a much smaller scale than you guys and even more difficult to get things cast in small quantities.

For the few, small foundries left, they are running like mad.  The small foundry we work with is currently up to their ears in work and unable to get folks to work for them to keep up with orders.  They are running 6-7 days/week and still turning away orders.  At the same time, they have several large customers who want to buy them out so they can be dedicated to them full time.  If that happens, we're pretty much on our own.

Hope to see you at Cabin Fever next weekend.  (Jan 13-14)  Have a safe trip.

Todd.
Littlelocos Model Engineering


----------



## stanstocker (Jan 4, 2022)

I'm glad Gary and Todd chose to pass on the reality of what's been going on.  I've worked with castings from both of these folks, and both offer excellent products.  If you are on the fence about getting one or more casting sets from anyone in our little world I'd suggest doing it soon.  Doesn't matter how dedicated the folks we know are, or how good their plans, if the foundries stop pouring for them we're all out of luck.

Best to all, hope those going have a great time at Cabin Fever.  I'm leaning towards giving this year a pass sadly, guess I'm getting chicken in my retirement...
Stan


----------



## patternmaker (Jan 4, 2022)

Todd, that is a major concern with the foundries. I do have one thing going for me.  I do industrial patterns for the foundries in Washington. So they will fit me in between their big customers, but I am at the back of the line of course. I am not complaining, but it can be frustrating.

There is another issue I did not mention.  Because of the lockdowns "down under" my shipments to customers there are not being sent by the Post Office as there are not enough plane flights to carry any extra packages.  I ship all of my castings in Flat Rate Priority Mailboxes to hold down shipping costs for my customers. Ironic, they are locked at home wanting to keep busy and productive doing some machining, and I am unable to get my product to them.

 I have a booth reserved at Cabin Fever. My only concern is whether my plane flight will be cancelled or not. I have about 200-300 pounds of iron castings stored back there so come and get it! I hope to see as many of you there as possible!


----------



## Richard Hed (Jan 4, 2022)

patternmaker said:


> Tales from the patternshop ...........
> We just had to raise prices on everything.... and it was very painful to do so.  Here are some of the reasons:
> 
> 1. The very last Mom n Pop iron foundry in Oregon closed in September while I was on a trip to South Dakota for the Black Hills Model Engineering Show. The day after returning, I rushed down to the foundry to pick up all my patterns there and ship them off to out of state foundries. They are now 5 hours north in Washington and 12 hours south in California. ( Instead of 20 minutes away) So shipping charges have gone way up and these foundries are more expensive to have castings done.
> ...


I didn't have a clue there were so many foundries in the Soviet of WA, and I didn't know there were as many as 30 here now!  I do know that Moses Lake has one and he has trouble keeping labor too.  He pays minimum for very hard work--is there any wonder?  He also makes a LOT of moolah and could easily pay better.  This foundry will make anything you want but of course charges for it too.  Mostly they make those large drain covers for city streets.  I'm surprised that there aren't any near you in Oregon.  Where in the Soviet do you buy your castings?


----------



## Jasonb (Jan 4, 2022)

Although there may be local foundries not all will do the quality of work and I would not really want an engine casting that was done from the same pour as street furniture.

I've been doing a bit of pattern making over the last year or so for Graham at Alyn Foundry, more just for our own consumption than reviving the business and he has had to go through several foundries until he found one that would produce good castings to the standard he used to be able to get when fully in business.


----------



## littlelocos (Jan 4, 2022)

Gary, I've been doing smaller industrial and decorative patterns for the foundry as well.  That's one of the reasons they are still willing to work with my small orders.  Unfortunately, patternmakers are getting fewer and further between as well.  I could easily spend most of my evenings and weekends doing that rather than stuff for Littlelocos.  That's also what has gotten our little business through this crazy pandemic.

Hoping you have an easy and safe trip East.  
Todd.


----------



## patternmaker (Jan 4, 2022)

Richard Hed said:


> I didn't have a clue there were so many foundries in the Soviet of WA, and I didn't know there were as many as 30 here now!  I do know that Moses Lake has one and he has trouble keeping labor too.  He pays minimum for very hard work--is there any wonder?  He also makes a LOT of moolah and could easily pay better.  This foundry will make anything you want but of course charges for it too.  Mostly they make those large drain covers for city streets.  I'm surprised that there aren't any near you in Oregon.  Where in the Soviet do you buy your castings?



Its worse than the number 30 when you take in to account  that this includes die casting, steel foundries, mom n pops, brass and aluminum, iron, lost wax and in-house foundries.   In Oregon, in the not too distant past there was about 50 brass and aluminum foundries.  I have done work for about a dozen of them, all but 5 are closed. I send my work to 3 of them on a regular basis. There was also about 30 steel and/or iron foundries. I have done patternwork for about 10 of them.  In the past I sent my patterns to 5 of them. They are all gone now.  I do have one lost wax foundry that does my work in bronze, aluminum, iron and steel about an hour away from me. They are backed up for 3-6 months at this time.

I have done patternwork for about 10 foundries in Washington.  I have sent my own patterns for iron work to Morel Foundry, an hour north of Seattle, Travis Iron in Spokane and steel to Roemer foundry in Longview. The great foundry in your backyard in Moses Lake does ductile iron and gray iron. What you may not know, is that when they went to expand the foundry there about 10 years ago, it took 2-3 years and a quarter of a million dollars just for the permits.  Foundries do not have a huge margin like one would think.


----------



## GrahamJTaylor49 (Jan 5, 2022)

You ask if the price of castings has gone up. Yes it has, but taking into account the size of market place it doesn't surprise me. Stuart Turner used to be in London, They then moved to Jersey in the Channel Islands and were finally taken over by Bridport Foundry. I purchased a set of castings for the Major Beam Engine around 20 years ago for the princely sum of around £400. The cost of that set of castings now is £1074. Looking at the parts list for that kit there is a lot more parts in it than I got but being in a wonderful position of being able to rummage through my clients scrap bins I have an enormous stock of bar ends and sheet steel that I will never get through. EN1A, Stainless, Brass, Bronze and a large amount of "stuff" that until I try to machine it I don't know what kind of finish I will get. Still, I won't stop raking around the bins and skips. After 20 odd years I have finally got the Major Beam Engine running. I will post some pictures of the beast when I get the time. That's the trouble with having your own business, not too much time for the real pleasures in life. Model Engineering, Shooting, Motor biking, Freemasonry and, last but not least, my good lady Wife, please note the capital "W". I just hope that people like Stuart Turner keep producing the castings or our wonderful hobby will disappear for ever, and that would be a great shame.


----------



## Bentwings (Jan 5, 2022)

Jasonb said:


> For one offs and small runs the pattern making time will always be high, but take Stuarts for example those patterns have produced hundreds of castings so become a very small percentage of the overall cost. Thy will also pouring a lot of parts at a time with a better foundry so that is more efficient too. Machining time is irrelevant to the cost of the castings.
> 
> I build a lot of engines with a combination of cutting from solid and fabricating though they still look like they were from castings and generally cost for all materials works out about 1/3rd of what it would for the equivalent castings and barstock. I also don't need to worry about hard spots, undersize castings, poor joint lines etc.
> 
> With fuel costs going up I doubt you will ever see the cost of castings come down so buy now.


this whole thing has turned into just a big political power thing. Normally I’d say “game” but I surely don’t want to note my approval as a sports player.  This thing is just reficulous yesterday I heard that for practical purposes everyone will test positive at some time or other. Vaccines or not many have had 3 shots plus booster and still either get mild sick or indeed wind up in hospital . Masks or not . I hate them. The only good use I’ve found is very cold weather wind protection might as well get ice fishing balaclava.  I’ll get a chance today as winds are supposed to get to 35+ with well below 0 F wind chills . Lots of snow to shovel it looks light weight however. Plow truck just dumped 2 feet over my street entrance to my side walk. I need o go out and shovel for deliveries today  maybe more model steam stuff haha . 
buton


----------



## delalio (Jan 6, 2022)

Hey Henry,

I am not sure if you are any further along with your kit decision.
The Victoria is a beautiful engine. 
I had the privilege of living about 20 miles from the Stuart foundry upto about a year ago. Went up and viewed a bunch of their kits, and got some advice of the people there. They also have a good presence at the local shows here, and often do the kits there tax free / slightly discounted. Not that is any use to you on the other side of the world!

I'm not sure how much machining you've done, or what equipment you have access to.
I ended up building the 10V. The kit was about £100, plus about £20 of optional extras like drain cocks etc.
It took me around 400h to build, as it was my first time using a lathe in ~20years.

Apparently the Victoria is 2x that, so about 800h build time. I really want to build the Twin Victoria, which is about 1000h, as many of the setups are reusable.
I don't feel up to it yet, and don't want to scrap a load of castings, so instead I have the S50 as my next project. 

The S50 is similar to the 10V at ~300-400h work, and the kit cost me about £110.

I hope that info is of some use to you.

Best of luck in your build. Looking forward to seeing pics / video of your progress!!


Del


----------



## Charles Lamont (Jan 6, 2022)

Bentwings said:


> <<rant>>
> buton


Has this anything to do with the topic?


----------



## Iampappabear (Jan 6, 2022)

On a safety note, this guy used to hold the mold steady with his right foot, looking at his bandage, one can only guess what happened.   if you getting into casting please do so in a safe manner.

has the price of steam engine castings gone up with COVID


----------



## Bentwings (Jan 7, 2022)

delalio said:


> Hey Henry,
> 
> I am not sure if you are any further along with your kit decision.
> The Victoria is a beautiful engine.
> ...


The site I noted is

advanced innovations LLC he is in Austin Texas joe piezineski I think great guy you may have to also enter YouTube I don’t know how to post direct link. The hand wheel on his tiny lathe is about the size of a thumb nail he goes through each set up very carefully showing debuting the castings so they rest properly and don’t get wrecked. I don’t know what equipment he is using but small would be best I think unless you have Hardinge tool room lathe he uses dial indicator like his extra hand. Shows you how and why in his videos if you subscribe you can get all his tips he has a lifetime of good ones. 
byron


----------



## Shopgeezer (Jan 8, 2022)

I have watched a lot of Joe Pie videos on You Tube and he is amazing in his knowledge and the tips and tricks he shows. My only complaint is that he generally uses bigger industrial machines that have capacities the home user is not likely to have. He often shows techniques that use the quill moving against the knee for various operations on a mill but my home mill can’t do those operations. I like the Blondihacks series of You Tube videos because she uses typical hobby level machines and has all the problems I have with them. And shows good solutions.


----------



## Brian Rupnow (Jan 8, 2022)

The price of EVERYTHING has gone up with Covid.


----------



## Bentwings (Jan 8, 2022)

Shopgeezer said:


> I have watched a lot of Joe Pie videos on You Tube and he is amazing in his knowledge and the tips and tricks he shows. My only complaint is that he generally uses bigger industrial machines that have capacities the home user is not likely to have. He often shows techniques that use the quill moving against the knee for various operations on a mill but my home mill can’t do those operations. I like the Blondihacks series of You Tube videos because she uses typical hobby level machines and has all the problems I have with them. And shows good solutions.


Check his steam engine build and now his mini lathe . The tail stock handle is no bigger than thumb nail. He turns a 2-56 thread then drills a tiny hole through for an oiler.  His flywheel video is good if you want to see how he sets it up.  I love watching this. I wanted the shaper and lathe but I just don’t see well enough to do this now . It takes extreme patience  and skill . I would not have thought twice about this years ago  but just doing this boiler is tough enough. Oh yess do look at his machining of a pump scrol blade. Turbo guys need to see this. It’s fancy rotary table work. Perfect job with mini equipment . We have a digital electric rotary table coming some day , it’s still on a boat last I heard. Already paid for too.
I just got one of the turbines yesterday. I would not have bought it if I had known it’s size it is no larger in diameter than index finger the shaft is a squeak under 2mm. I’m not sure I have a drill or reamer that small I put a couple drops of air tool oil in it and just bumped a little puff of air hose air and it screams.  I don’t what I’ll use it for . I don’t even have a small slot car motor to drive it the screws that hold it together are so small I might have to break out the microscope to see them. I don’t even know how I’ll be able to take it apart. The Allen socket is tiny . A marvel of miniaturation.  I need to get back to cutting tubes for the boiler  and maybe a cad model . It will be at least 2 weeks before I get the steam engine. I’ve already made arrangements to paint the base I was going to do powder coat but I just don’t like the wait of two weeks and a hundred bucks . I’ll use a barbecue mottled gray I think. I was going to do white  but I think the oil will stain it the gray won’t show much . Textile plants had the most awfull shad of pale green ever seen . No pretty machine deserves that horrible color. It should be banned.LOL 

byron


----------



## Bentwings (Jan 8, 2022)

At least it’s warmer today. It was -22F when I went out for afternoon walk. 20 mph winds. I found good use for COVID mask plus my pull up one wrapped a nice scarf and knit pull over hat with hoody jacket. Still a cold walk . 
I may have to get small ultra quiet air compressor for temporary use. I really don’t need it and will have little use for it but it lay I can enjoy the new hobby. I’ve really jumped in big.  I’m looking at possibly making some type of dog clutch. I cold use crown pulleys I suppose
Byron


----------



## GreenTwin (Jan 8, 2022)

I have always been frustrated with the limits of the available casting kits for model steam engines.
It is not that Stuart and others don't offer some extremely nice models/casting kit selections, but I always ask "What if I want to go beyond the current commercial offerings?  Is there life outside of the current casting kit universe?".

The answer is yes, you can create your own quality engine castings in gray iron, in a backyard setting (I was pretty much universally told that this was impossible).
See this thread:





						Home Foundry
					

I built my first furnace back in 2012, and have experimented with oil and propane burners ever since.  I melted aluminum first, and that was pretty easy.  You can melt aluminum as easily as Zamak (in my opinion) using the same propane burner and just slightly more heat. Zamak has more mass to...




					www.homemodelenginemachinist.com
				




The castings you make yourself may not necessarily be the least expensive option, but the potential for creating  unique engine designs based on old engines is basically unlimited, and so you enter a whole new world of possibilities that most don't even know exists.

You can make your gray iron castings, and they can be high quality, defect-free, and with no hard spots.
The engine below was my first attempt at foundry work, first attempt to make engine castings, and my first complete engine build.
The green twin was basically a warmup, and represents a "how to make your own iron castings" tutorial of sorts.

I had little machining experience prior to this engine build, and no foundry knowledge at all.
If I can do it, then there are many who can also make their own iron engine castings.
This engine was created entirely from three photos that were posted on the Preston Services website.

I have left a very detailed paper trail about how to make gray iron engine castings, and so the trail is open for others to follow if they choose.
Made right here in America.  We need to retain our technological knowledge, and not let it slip away.
Use it or lose it as they say.


----------



## Richard Hed (Jan 8, 2022)

GreenTwin said:


> I have always been frustrated with the limits of the available casting kits for model steam engines.
> It is not that Stuart and others don't offer some extremely nice models/casting kit selections, but I always ask "What if I want to go beyond the current commercial offerings?  Is there life outside of the current casting kit universe?".
> 
> The answer is yes, you can create your own quality engine castings in gray iron, in a backyard setting (I was pretty much universally told that this was impossible).
> ...


What does this issue of LS & OR have in it?  Does it have usable drawings?


----------



## GreenTwin (Jan 9, 2022)

The Green Twin appeared in a six part series in Live Steam and Outdoor Railroading, as follows:

Part 1 - March/April 2021, Vol.55, No.2
Part 2 - May/June 2021, Vol.55, No.3
Part 3 - July/August 2021, Vol.55, No.4
Part 4 - September/October 2021, Vol.55, No.5
Part 5 - November/December 2021, Vol.55, No.6
Part 6 - January/February 2022, Vol.56, No.1

Drawings are contained in Parts 2,3,4 and 5.

.


----------



## Jasonb (Jan 9, 2022)

The other answer is you don't bother with castings and fabricate.

Here is another advert from Preston Services and my version









Or something a bit more complex ( i did use a flywheel casting on this, rest is fabricated or cut from solid





This one is all scratch built including teh flywheels (iron)






Someone earlier said that without castings the hobby would die, I think it will just move on and evolve particularly with most people now having mills and access to reasonably priced tooling compared with back in the day when the lathe would more than likely be the only machine tool in a hobby workshop in which case castings were a better option.

There are also companies selling CNC parts such as Loco wheels which could take the place of castings or the price of printed metal will come down so maybe one day you could buy a kit of printed metal parts to finish off. Even Stuarts are supplying a few items CNC cut these days rather than lost wax castings, the 10series engine valve being one of them.


----------



## GreenTwin (Jan 9, 2022)

CNC has changed a lot, as has 3D printing.

I keep trying to get JasonB to use his models as patterns, but he says "What for ?", and LOL, it is indeed a valid question when you look at his models.
But in my mind, he is making beautiful patterns.  When you have a furnace, everything looks like a pattern.

There does seem to be more interest in backyard casting these days, but as I mentioned, there is lots of interest in CNC too.
The tools for the hobby are getting better, that much is for sure, and the prices are coming down too I think, with the accuracy going up.

.


----------



## Jasonb (Jan 9, 2022)

I use my patterns as patterns   But it's only a few clicks to enlarge a part for shrinkage allowance and add on any machining allowances & draft angle


----------



## GreenTwin (Jan 9, 2022)

I guess the bottom line is that it is much easier for me to carve a pattern out of wood, or even 3D print a pattern, than to make an engine of various parts silver soldered together, or parts hogged out of large pieces of metal.

What is happening is that I am doing all the hard machining virtually in the 3D modeling program, and the only actual real machining required is just a light skim of a few mating surfaces.

I have tried both methods, and for me, it is just easier to make a pattern and then cast the part.

After attempting to make a few engine parts using the bar stock method, I basically said "There has to be a better way", and so while making castings is not for everyone, it definitely makes my model building hobby a lot easier.

With bar stock construction, I found that perhaps 1/2 or even 3/4 of any given part ended up on the floor in swarf, with a tremendous amount of wear and tear on equipment and tool bits.

To each their own, but those are the reasons I went to gray iron castings.
Good gray iron castings are a joy to machine, very little material is wasted, and very little machining is required, and tool bit wear is minimal.

With the advent of accurate and inexpensive 3D printers (or CNC), it becomes much easier to transition into making your own patterns/castings.
Even if someone else makes your castings, I think making your own patterns is a very appealing and viable option these days, as Jason illustrates so well.

Jason is starting to "go castings", LOL, (inside joke; a play on the "he's gone CNC" line I hear sometimes).

.


----------



## patternmaker (Jan 10, 2022)

Starting about 20 years ago, I have held classes in patternmaking with mostly members of the local home machinist club, I have also given seminars on patternmaking at Names and Cabin Fever expos. It has been requested of me to put on a 7-10 day patternmaking seminar at my shop.  I have also been giving some thought to "taking my show on the road" so to speak.  Could I get some feedback to doing one or both of those formats?


----------



## Richard Hed (Jan 10, 2022)

patternmaker said:


> Starting about 20 years ago, I have held classes in patternmaking with mostly members of the local home machinist club, I have also given seminars on patternmaking at Names and Cabin Fever expos. It has been requested of me to put on a 7-10 day patternmaking seminar at my shop.  I have also been giving some thought to "taking my show on the road" so to speak.  Could I get some feedback to doing one or both of those formats?


I thimpfks both are great ideas.  ONly thing is I am very jealous if I cannot attend one.  Where would you be giving these?


----------



## Bentwings (Jan 10, 2022)

Richard Hed said:


> I thimpfks both are great ideas.  ONly thing is I am very jealous if I cannot attend one.  Where would you be giving these?


I’m not sure about casting prices but the dollar against pound sterling and euro has  followed our rediculous inflation shipping cost are out of sight even Amazon seems higher.  I like fast delivery but some just seems out of line  my late son eked for a large truck company and drove long haul for a while. They had set charges for every thug then he went to more or less local delivery. The charges were even great but he said at the one companies wanted their stuff right now and didn’t care what to cost. So I’d guess we as consumers paid the price in higher cost of goods .  As with most Americans we are feeling he cost of inflation probably more than virus cost it doesent cost more to go into the gas station with a dumb mask on but the cost of gas is just crazy. I have an angry German Shepherd mask. It’s humorous when checking out. I add a little growl just for fun.  Nobody has smacked me yet but a few have jumped. It’s worth a laugh in these tough times. I’m not  “just living with it” I’m an really angry. My fixed income is taking a beating. I’ve down sized everything and shop price vs quality all the time  I eat about half what I used to and look at cost per meal just as I did cost per mile on my cars and trucks .  Eggs are expensive but there is powdered eg mix frankly I can’t tell he difference in scrambled eggs  but it’s a whole bunch cheaper so cost per meal is down . Makes a goo lunch sandwich that is filling so I don’t eat much between meals . Very few snacks. I budget a dozen jelly belly beans a day for snacks . Yeah I know I’m a cheap skat  but I have to support my hobby and my kitty.  I exercise daily to keep healthy so clinic trips are at a minimum. Also take extreme measure not to fall down or  do bodily injury. Medical costs are incredibly high. Use your insurance as best as you can . There are hidden benefits, might as well use them if you can .
Yes costs are up but it’s from other reason not in our power to control except at the voting booth . Use you blak pencil with care .
Byron


----------



## patternmaker (Jan 11, 2022)

Richard Hed said:


> I thimpfks both are great ideas.  ONly thing is I am very jealous if I cannot attend one.  Where would you be giving these?


I
I hold classes at my shop in Scappoose Oregon,  18 miles north of Portland.


----------



## Bentwings (Jan 11, 2022)

patternmaker said:


> I
> I hold classes at my shop in Scappoose Oregon,  18 miles north of Portland.


There is an extremely talented guy not to rar from me that puts on a metal working event every year. He does ca restorations mainly nut there is lots of metal working there I’ve been invited o give Tig welding seminars there several time. He has a big barbecue. 
and provides beer and soft drinks. I can’t participate anymore as eye sight is not good enough. I added white board on my late time as demonstration. But nothing beats the real thing if you were to come here I’m sure you would be well received. I did dog training or many years and many Europeans trainers gave seminars often spending week on their vacations here I went to many of hem. Then I got to go to Europe twice for 6 weeks each. I went to local dog clubs almost every evening over there. Not being multilingual was a handicap but most spoke English very well so common interest were served well. I was a tool maker when I went back to eng school so a very big edge cad and cnc were just starting and I’d like to think I saw it coming and chip making was going have big changes. That it has. 
after school I took advantage and did almost all eng on cad using machine operations to develope efficient designs. 
I disliked manual drafting something fierce. My goal was to never create a manual drawing after school . And I didn’t . It was much easier to send electron away with delete button than to roll up many pages of paper drawings.  Once paperless operations became reality things moved much faster and efficiently. Early on it was important to have good relations with the shop people. It was fun when they would call and say “ hey mr. engineer, how are we supposed to do some feature then go back and show them a new operation. As as we say in sports” it’s been a great game” so here I am deep in retirement in the middle of a big for me,giant hobby project. Eng. machinist, welder all over again. My son wants to get into casting and pattern making. So he is doing home work along that line.

anyway it’s great seeing your patterns. Technology just keeps marching along

good luck as you proceed.
Byron


----------



## Bentwings (Jan 11, 2022)

Bentwings said:


> There is an extremely talented guy not to rar from me that puts on a metal working event every year. He does ca restorations mainly nut there is lots of metal working there I’ve been invited o give Tig welding seminars there several time. He has a big barbecue.
> and provides beer and soft drinks. I can’t participate anymore as eye sight is not good enough. I added white board on my late time as demonstration. But nothing beats the real thing if you were to come here I’m sure you would be well received. I did dog training or many years and many Europeans trainers gave seminars often spending week on their vacations here I went to many of hem. Then I got to go to Europe twice for 6 weeks each. I went to local dog clubs almost every evening over there. Not being multilingual was a handicap but most spoke English very well so common interest were served well. I was a tool maker when I went back to eng school so a very big edge cad and cnc were just starting and I’d like to think I saw it coming and chip making was going have big changes. That it has.
> after school I took advantage and did almost all eng on cad using machine operations to develope efficient designs.
> I disliked manual drafting something fierce. My goal was to never create a manual drawing after school . And I didn’t . It was much easier to send electron away with delete button than to roll up many pages of paper drawings.  Once paperless operations became reality things moved much faster and efficiently. Early on it was important to have good relations with the shop people. It was fun when they would call and say “ hey mr. engineer, how are we supposed to do some feature then go back and show them a new operation. As as we say in sports” it’s been a great game” so here I am deep in retirement in the middle of a big for me,giant hobby project. Eng. machinist, welder all over again. My son wants to get into casting and pattern making. So he is doing home work along that line.
> ...


I did it again and missed some errors sorry about that. 
I got all the boiler tubes cut yesterdayso now it’s on to the boiler end caps and tube supports. I have to order a couple taps and dies. Probably from PMResearch as they are here in the states.then the boiler o rings. I’m going to order o ring material and make my own  o ring belts untill I see more of what I need I have a couple tig welding gloves to make leather flat belt too for now

byron


----------

