# Shaper... about time!



## Artie (Jun 1, 2010)

Ive been watching shapers being sold for 6 or 7 months and while I dont need one, I certainly WANT one. Problem is they dont surface too often and when they do they normally go for largish chunks of money. Sort of not too high a priority. I have a golden rule which says I wont throw money at his hobby, hence I make so much of my own stuff, thats what I enjoy....

On fleabuy a Royal shaper was listed, I got the owners number and rang him and spoke at length about the beasty. 61 years old, Owned by his brother who bought it new and he has owned it since his brother passed away. Its quite stained but he thinks it probably hasnt operated for more than 100 hours in its life, certainly bugger all in the time hes owned it. He broke a ratchet gear while moving it and that is all thats wrong with it. 

I paid... (drum roll).... $305 Aus for it ($255 US or 175 English pounds).

I pick it up Friday week... Im pretty excited!!!


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## Deanofid (Jun 2, 2010)

What a neat new thing, Artie. A great tool. Looks pretty good, too!
I'll bet you can't wait to get it and make some chips.
Congrats!

Dean


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## barney_leadhead (Jun 2, 2010)

At 175GBP - what a great deal for a machine that has only just been run-in.
With a service and a little cosmetic work she'll be good enough for years to come.
I haven't used a shaper for many years but I would love a small hand operated one to add to my collection


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## tel (Jun 2, 2010)

Congrats Artie - I was the early bidder on that 'un, not because I needed it, but I didn't want to see it go for scrap. Glad to hear it's gone to a good home. Guess I'll just have to make do with my Douglas 10.5".


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## New_Guy (Jun 2, 2010)

nice find i know what you mean about them being hard to find wish i could find one most are just scrapped, to big or to expensive  lol we have a huge old Cincinnati at work its so old it used to run on a line shaft  apparently that have used it once this last decade :big:


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## Artie (Jun 2, 2010)

Hi Dean yes indeed chips will fly...actually I made a tool holder for the new qctp last night... gee cutting dovetails with a standard cutter takes an age... im hoping this beasty will be much nicer in this department....

Barney, Im hoping it will see me out.... and im only a pup.... ;D

Tel...you bas6584d! Was that you? Actually I did notice there were 2 early bids... I thought I had it for $200 but in the last few seconds it went up twice in $50 hops. I was prepared to pay $500 for it but didnt think I had a hope as the thre I had seen in past each went for over a grand.

Just on the QCTP, Ive a large lathe and the 'sets' were damned expensive but I managed to buy the post alone for $85 inc freight. Have made one tool holder (why do these cost as much as the much more complex post?) and as indicated it was a little tedious although I did most of the bulk metal removal with the HZ mill which 'rips' metal off much faster than the Vert Mill or dovetail cutter...

bugger it Ill do a dedicated thread for the QCTP....


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## Deanofid (Jun 2, 2010)

One of the many cool things about these machines is you can set it and walk away while it chews 
at the dovetails for your tool post holders. 

I hope you'll do us a nice favor and shoot us a video of it doing it's thing. They're a fun machine
to watch. I keep an eye out for small ones. Someday, one will show up at a decent price when I 
actually have some dough. Just waiting for the planets to align!

Have fun. Show us if you can!

Dean


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## tel (Jun 2, 2010)

$500 would have been good buying, what you paid was bargain basement stuff! ;D I paid a grand for the Douglas some years back BUT at the same time H&F had 'arf a dozen of 'em they were flogging for $1500 each


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## Artie (Jun 11, 2010)

Well, after a huge day I have the shaper at home.... I also got my hands on a bag of bentonite clay thanks to our esteemed colleague from the mountainous regions of Aus... (that would be Tel for you O.S. philistines...).....

I worked on the east coast this week past and made a large curvatious detour to pick up the shaper and drop in and see Tel. We did a barter deal ... he got brass and aluminium and I got clay and way oil.... apart from that he gave me a guided tour of his marvellous workshop and I got to fondle some of his creations....

Guys..he has HEAPS of works of art hidden away... you have to pester him to show it off cause he's not one to blow... (aussie term I think... it aint rude... :).

You know that old guy in his avatar? Thats actually a photo of Tel..... its not a cartoon character at all.... ;D 

Seriously, really nice guy with loads of info in his head, and very very modest to go with it...

Now, the shaper. Im sooooo disappointed in it...... Its not even broken in yet! I would think thats seeing as I paid so much for it that they would have at least used it at some point...

I had a good chat with the owner as we loaded it, Maurice is 84 and a little infirm, so all his dangerous toys are going (quite sad really). I thought he told me on the phone that it was his brothers. Not so. His dad bought it new in 1948 and to the best of his knowledge never sliced a single piece of metal with it.

He inherited it 45 years ago and probably hasnt turned the machine on a hundred times (his best guesstimate).

Last time he used it he had to have it rewired as it had perished and was dangerous and it looks like it is new... it has cutting fluid stains buit no marks on the ways or in fact on any moving surfaces. It doesnt even need a coat of paint, th eoriginal is almost immaculate.

Ill take pics tomorrow as the sparky is coming to rewire it (again... damned time does weary them...)...

He broke two small fixtures when he was trying to move it so I have these to repair (be finished tomorrow) and away she goes....

Ill add pics tomorrow...

Cheers all

Rob


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## tel (Jun 11, 2010)

Glad to see you got 'er 'ome safely matey - that's a lovely hunk o' old iron you got there, look after 'er or I'll be around you wif a big stick!


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## Artie (Jun 11, 2010)

gday mate.. I dont believe you. Any fella that burns 22 tons of firewood a year CANT SPARE A BIG STICK! Thanky for the hospitality mate, very much appreciated. My turn next. :bow:


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## lathe nut (Jun 11, 2010)

Nice find glad that you got it and its going to have a good home, you take care of it and it can be passed on again to another who cares, I have three of them and I think that I need another one, they are fun to play on, have fun, Lathe Nut


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## Artie (Jun 12, 2010)

The beast as she was when I picked her up...




After a degrease and a bath...




The brocken ratchet pawl... and the freshly made replacement....




Sitting with her neighbours.....








A little action...... click on th epic.....







Shes clutched, 2 speed with an 8 inch stroke (I was told it was 6) with auto feeds on both axis. and mechanically brand new.The ways have the scrape marks still fresh and proud.

It has a little damage from storage but I have that under control. I thought teh paint was very good, but after degreasing it, it isnt so hot, all chalked..... but.... I think it adds to its history abd I wont be painting her...

Now to make some tool holders...... ALmsot forgot, it came with all the original tooling but sadly no vice... for the time being Ill use my large beast but will keep my eyes open...


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## d.bick (Jun 12, 2010)

Artie
Ive owned a shaper like yours (called a New England) for many years. Sadly its had a lot harder life and is a little worn. But is still very useful. Ive done key way slots with it, but found the clapper box needs to be fixed. A grub screw took care of that.
 Before I had carbide cutters for the mill the shaper was very good at removing metal from the harder castings and steels, in that you could regrind a blunt tool a lot easier than re-sharpen a burnt out HSS mill cutter.
 Iam sure you will have many happy hours using it 
        All the best Dave Bick U.K.


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## tel (Jun 12, 2010)

Sheeeesh! These blokes with acres of spare floor just to plop down their new treasure! 

I bought a new screwdriver t'other week and was 'ard pressed to shoehorn_ that_ in.

You must 'ave spent all Sat'dy on 'er did you mate?


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## Deanofid (Jun 12, 2010)

Ah, she runs nice, Artie. Sounds quiet and tight. Very good!
You have a nicely equipped shop, too! 
I see your little Ford was able to bring the new
beast home. Probably weighs 1/3 of the car!

Glad you have the new baby settled in.

Dean


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## Artie (Jun 12, 2010)

Gday Tel, mate I understand your comment... :big: Tel does amazing stuff in a rabbit warren.... I could have spent all day poking around in there had I not needed to get on the road.... kudos mate, just makes your impressive work all the more impressive.

Hi Dean, she does doesnt she?

The shop suffers from "damn, I need......" Its never well equiped enough.... the thing I find is that I want to do a small machining job... it takes 3 times as long to make the jig as it does to do the actual job! One day, just one day... a jig I have made in past will actually be used unmodified again... I live in hope.

Jeez mate, I dont know what the equivalent is over there but thats a pretty big car (over here at least). Large 6 cyl eng. It hardly knew it was on there .... although it went from around 680kms per tank to around 500 and at a $1.30 a litre that starts to tell.....

Shes itchin to cut something.. I have a few old tool holders for it somewhere ( I never throw anything out... :) so today I might commit cuttery.... ;D


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## Artie (Jun 12, 2010)

That just got me curious .. so I did some calcs.... we pay $5.02 (US) per gallon for fuel.... that'd be why there are so few Hummers over here... :


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## Deanofid (Jun 12, 2010)

> Jeez mate, I dont know what the equivalent is over there but thats a pretty big car (over here at least).



I think I'm being fooled by camera perspective, Artie. The shaper is closer, so makes the car look smaller!
They used to make a Falcon here, too, but stopped around 1970. I had two. Mine were good cars.


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## Artie (Jun 12, 2010)

We have 2 'primary' car sover here Ford Falcon and Holden (General Motors) Commodore, in fact we sell you guys our Commodore in 2 door form. I think you call it the Pontiac GTO.

Great news.... Maurice just rang me.. " Ive found the vice that belongs to the shaper... you'll have to pay postage"..... oh..... alright....... some things were meant to be.... and at 84 years, it may take a little time to remember things...... In the end I offered to make payment and he grudgingly agreed. Hell I paid $300 aus for the damn machine, he gave it to me I wont take the vice for nothing. ;D


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## Bob Farr (Jun 12, 2010)

Artie  said:
			
		

> *** Shes clutched, 2 speed with an 8 inch stroke (I was told it was 6) _*with auto feeds on both axis*_. ***



She's a beauty Artie. I have a Sweedish made machine called a "Torpex" currently undergoing a restoration which is very similar to yours. It also seems to have the two-axis auto-feed capability. Would you mind sharing some more detailed images or videos of how yours operates? 

Congratulations on the great tool find!

Bob Farr


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## Artie (Jun 12, 2010)

Hi Bob, that'll be a fine thing when youve finished. Im happy mine is in such great condition but it must feel fantastic to resurrect an ole girl like that. 

It may be the pics as I cant see the gear set at all. I hope its not all missing, but is there a set of toothed gears linking one feed shaft with teh other?

without it the machine will still auto feed cross ways but not up or down. Its common for these to strip and then possibly not refitted after thay are taken off for inspection. They strip when both feeds are engaged at the one time. Apparently the loads are far too high for the small gear section. I know all about this as Ive just discovered mine are! I looked when I picked it up but the 3 broken teeth were sitting in place and it 'looked' ok.

Ill take more picks today and post up tonight.
Rob


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## don-tucker (Jun 13, 2010)

I love shapers,well I did until one bit me,I remember using one similar to yours Artie way back in my apprenticeship days,I put my hand at the back to check if the parallel under the job was loose and she had me,I had great respect for the shaper after that.It was 54 years ago and taught me a good lesson.
I love the finish that comes with a sharp tool and plenty of top rake.
Don


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## Artie (Jun 13, 2010)

Pics of the action for Bob














The repairs needed are

Feed ratchet pawl... (already dealt with)

Hand bump wheel (broken off, shaft ok)

Motion rod adjusted split (over tightened and split teh cast iron)

Missing teeth on feed gears...

The hand wheel is cast iron and I decided to replace it rather than repair... So I chucked a lump of brass (my very first brass casting project about 10 years ago, finally!), trued it up, knurled it and then shaped it.





















One down....

The adjuster...











Can you see the replacement emrging from the lump of steel?


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## Artie (Jun 13, 2010)

And thats as far is I got today apart from making the brass height adjuster nuts for the qctp tool holders (6 of em)... been a busy afternoon in the workshop.... ;D


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## Artie (Jun 13, 2010)

don-tucker  said:
			
		

> I love shapers,well I did until one bit me,I remember using one similar to yours Artie way back in my apprenticeship days,I put my hand at the back to check if the parallel under the job was loose and she had me,I had great respect for the shaper after that.It was 54 years ago and taught me a good lesson.
> I love the finish that comes with a sharp tool and plenty of top rake.
> Don



 I hope it didnt bite you too badly Don.... all things mechanical deserve our respect.... Ive got the scars to prove that theory.... ;D


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## Bob Farr (Jun 13, 2010)

Artie  said:
			
		

> Hi Bob, that'll be a fine thing when youve finished. Im happy mine is in such great condition but it must feel fantastic to resurrect an ole girl like that.
> 
> It may be the pics as I cant see the gear set at all. I hope its not all missing, but is there a set of toothed gears linking one feed shaft with teh other?
> 
> ***



Artie, 

Thanks for the detailed pictured of your ratcheting feed pawl castings. They are very helpful, as was your video. Your repairs are made to a high standard and I'm sure the previous owner would be happy to know his machine is in capable hands. 

My machine only came with one such device for the horizontal feed. The cast gear teeth were stripped , so I suspect it originally also had a second one for the vertical feed that was tossed out after it was damaged. My small parts are burried in a storage box at a moment, but here's a picture from another Torpex with stripped table gears. It looks like a common problem: 






My shaper was literally a barn find, including free straw and chicken poop. I was surprised that it disassembled so easily. It seemed a bit top heavy and tipsey, so I'm making a wider thick oak base to give the column a little more stability: 






Other than that it's just a matter of stripping, repairing some minor damage, and putting her back to work. I suspect this machine may be a copy of an early Elliott or Alba design that was exported under many different brand names.


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## dsquire (Jun 13, 2010)

Bob Farr  said:
			
		

> Artie,
> .......
> My shaper was literally a barn find, including free straw and chicken poop. I was surprised that it disassembled so easily. It seemed a bit top heavy and tipsey, so I'm making a wider thick oak base to give the column a little more stability:
> ........
> Other than that it's just a matter of stripping, repairing some minor damage, and putting her back to work. I suspect this machine may be a copy of an early Elliott or Alba design that was exported under many different brand names.




Bob
Here is a link that may help you with rust removal on your shaper.

http://www.madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1651.0

Cheers 

Don


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## hopeless (Jun 14, 2010)

and now in ebay (Oz) another 1 surfaced. Looks like the same model as Artie has but now $500. Might just watch it though freight might hurt me.
Pete


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## Artie (Jun 14, 2010)

Well the resurrection is about done for now....

Wanna see some smokin chips? Watch tonights vids! I had to make a tool holder as I couldnt find the ones I had... theyre here somewhere.... but hell yeah....

The motion link aduster worked out well, I still need to find a roll pin for the ratchet pawl and get rid of the split pin temporarily in use and the final suspect bit is the stripped gears. I was able to adjust the rod link to a minimum fine feed and re time the gears so the damaged teeth arent in play.. not ideal but enough to get by until I can remake them...











Click on the pics to start the vids. In the first one the noise is the power hacksaw cutting the stock for the tool holder, noisy but pretty good old machine ..(like the older stuff ;D)


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## don-tucker (Jun 14, 2010)

With the broken teeth on the feed gears,we used to drill a row of holes along the tooth push MS pegs in then braze over,turn the od and file the gear profile.Used to last for years.
Don


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## Deanofid (Jun 14, 2010)

Smokin' chips! 
Thanks for the vid, Artie. That's great.

Dean


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## Bob Farr (Jun 14, 2010)

Impressive work Artie, well done! 

Bob


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## Artie (Jun 15, 2010)

My machine only came with one such device for the horizontal feed. The cast gear teeth were stripped , so I suspect it originally also had a second one for the vertical feed that was tossed out after it was damaged. My small parts are burried in a storage box at a moment, but here's a picture from another Torpex with stripped table gears. It looks like a common problem:  

Bob, the good news is that yours look like they can be (relatively) easily replaced, particularly once you have the machine up and running... in essence, she can repair herself. If you have one of the gear set its not too dificult to use it as the register to help you make the other set.

When I get round to actually doing mine Ill post pics, might be a while though as the 'bodg' seems to work well. Last night we cut lots of metal just getting a feel for the ole girl, seeing what depths of cuts can be used etc. Havent even started experimenting with the various tool shapes yet...

One thing I hadnt counted on is...its bloody messy! Throws hot chips everywhere... might make a small drop in place curtain to contain the chips in the immediate vicinity of the machine.....

Rob T


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## Artie (Jun 24, 2010)

Found some interesting stuff re: Royal Shaper, well I found it interesting anyway.... A description of the Royal...

"Royal Shaper



An especially well-made shaper, the 10.5-inch stroke, 4-speed "Royal" was ideal for use in the smaller professional workshops and training establishments. It's only drawback - though common to similar sized machines from several other makers at the time - was the lack (on early models only) of a support bar under the front edge of the box to stiffen the structure under heavier cuts.
Manufactured by Realm Engineering of Croydon, Surry (not to be confused with the Relm lathe makers) the machine stayed in production until the 1960s - a decade that was the last to see the installation of such machines in schools and colleges. 
Fitted with a clutch as standard, the machine had square ram guides with the stroke rate controlled by a combination of a 2-speed gearbox and 2-step V-belt drive. Both automatic vertical and well as horizontal power feeds appear to have been fitted - though the vertical may well have been an extra-cost option.
With a box table 10.125" long, 6.875" wide and 7.375" tall the Royal could tackle work up to 10.75 inches wide and accommodate a job up to 8 inches high. The tool slide had around 2.5 inches of travel (it accepted tools up to 5/8" square) and the ram stroke could be set at, 43, 58, 88 or 118 per minute.."

And the sales advert.... although a later model than mine with a different pedestal and a support bar. If you think about exchange rates.... I paid 'new' price for mine :


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## ieezitin (Jun 24, 2010)

I would pay 159 pound now and a 159 pound shipping if the offer was still available.


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