# Round Ram Bridgeport



## Hopsteiner (Jul 17, 2018)

This is a project I've been working on for awhile, affectionately known as the "boat anchor."  When I bought it, all I heard was Bridgeport. Had I known more, I would have walked away but I'm too far down the road now. I'm putting in new screws and nuts and bearings where needed. At present I'm scraping new gibs flat. I now know the difference between an M Head and a J Head. I caution all to read and get as much information before you make an expensive purchase. I have foregone scraping the ways. I have the knowledge but the expenditure in precision measuring tools would be prohibitive. This mill will be a hugh upgrade in my milling capabilities. At present, I have an upright milling vise on my Atlas Mill. I would be interested in anyone else undertaking a similar "folly."


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## ShopShoe (Jul 17, 2018)

"Had I known more, I would have walked away but I'm too far down the road now."

I think most of us have been too far down the road at one time or another.

Your Bridgeport will be great when it's done, and you will have a better idea of what to do in the future. You may be tired of it, or you may decide to revisit parts of it in the future: I find that few of my projects are ever "done" done, but then I favor the process of working on things more than the objects that result from the process.

Keep working and let us see how things go.

Thank You for posting,

--ShopShoe


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## DJP (Jul 17, 2018)

There is a positive side to this story as your Bridgeport now sits in your basement workshop. My J Head was delivered on a flatbed truck using a fort lift so it ended up close to where it was dropped off in my garage/shop. Luckily it didn't need rebuilding and the professional movers didn't disturb the tram alignment of the head.

A coat of paint would help improve the appearance but as stated, making things and getting accustomed to the new capabilities have taken priority. 

Once you are operational the time spent rebuilding will be forgotten.


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## MRA (Jul 19, 2018)

'Had I known more, I would have walked away but I'm too far down the road now...I would be interested in anyone else undertaking a similar "folly..."'

Well, we celebrated our wedding anniversary quite recently...oh, hang on...


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## rlukens (Jul 19, 2018)

Looks like a great project... carry on. 
At "our" age, projects are a blessing if not a must. Whether it's metal, wood, dirt, or whatever, they keep us above ground.


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## Wizard69 (Jul 21, 2018)

Rebuilding a machine tool is never folly if there is any life left in it.   Some of the classic machines will be around for several centuries and still be completely useful.  So taking care of old iron isnt folly.   

Frankly the Bridgeport Mill is a classic as far as machine tools go.  The need for that sort of functionality doesn't go away. They may not be front and center in modern machine shops but there will be a few around and probably will be there in the 2200's.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 24, 2019)

I would like to update my posts on the rebuilding of my 1946 M head Bridgeport. I’m getting close as you will see from the following pictures. The table is mounted and moves smoothly. I had the 42 inch table precision ground. I have since found that the table is three low from end to end. Not happy about this but at this point, I just want to get this mill operational. I feel when it was surface ground, a too heavy a cut may have been taken causing the table to flex in the middle. I’m working on small details which are functional but in some cases, cosmetic. I almost feel like the guy working on the sailboat that enjoys rebuilding the sailboat and not the sailing. Since my machine will be in an unheated garage, I have taken to making all of the handles which were missing out of 303 stainless steel. In the future, I plan on installing a DRO. The cost of an XYZ unit seem to be all over the place. Most or all of these units are made in China. Does anyone have any suggestions as to a reasonably priced unit with reliability?


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 18, 2020)

I‘ve been working on this M head mill for a long time. There has been no urgency to finish, but there it sits reminding me I’ve got to get it done. I‘ve had been thinking of building a tubing carriage to be able to move the mill, but then how often do you need to move your mill? In the first picture, you see a cushioned leveler made by Sunnex. I took some measurements and think I can get these to work. There is a casting rib inside the base of this mill that runs around the perimeter of the base. These mounts have about a 1/2 inch adjustment for leveling. My thought is to take some 1 inch stainless rod, drill a clearance hole to fit over the threaded rod. These pieces will be about two inches in height. As the mill sits on all four of these levelers, you can use a small socket to raise and adjust each corner. They cost about $25 each, but tubing and welding a carriage would have cost far more. The 4th photo shows the mill be lifted off the portable cart, a U haul castoff. The hoist is by Harbor Freight with a 6 foot strap. I’m a savenger, always got my eye out. The last two photos show the 3 phase converter mounted on a board. I’ve got a variable frequency drive but I decided the fastest way to get this running was this method.


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## ShopShoe (Jul 18, 2020)

I have used leveling pads for some things in my shop and they work OK, but I don't have any large machines like a Bridgeport. I have also seen at least one Bridgeport mounted on casters on a YouTube video (but I can't remember who has it.) A big machine on casters scares me so I would not do it myself.

Keith Rucker on YouTube has attached risers underneath machines and built tables with structure a few inches above the floor so he can use a pallet jack to move them. I like this approach. I have my tabletop mill-drill mounted on a table that takes the same approach and I use my hydraulic lift-table at about 1/2 inch lift to do the same thing.

Did you ever get a DRO?

--ShopShoe


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 18, 2020)

Shop shoe, I like the Keith Rucker videos. I’d kill for the space and shop he’s got. This guy can’t be married. The carriage you’re talking about had wheels but when you got it where you wanted it, you adjusted 4 screws one on each corner. This lifted the machine off the floor, leveling the machine. I don’t have a DRO, maybe later. I did buy a X axis power feed which needs repair. I’ve just got to get it running.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 18, 2020)

This is my problem, I have a breaker box in the garage. I just have to run power to it. I have a 100 amp service. It’s a “rats nest” and should be upgraded to 150 or 200. I can do it myself, however I don’t know if I can take the heat for interruption of power, internet, etc. aA mask will not help, maybe earplugs?


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 18, 2020)

Have you ever tried to bend number 2 cable? It’s like trying to break an arm. I‘ve got the spot for a 60 amp double pole, but all of that romex has to move. Ive got a project in mind so ive got to get that mill up and running.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 18, 2020)

Wizard69 said:


> Rebuilding a machine tool is never folly if there is any life left in it.   Some of the classic machines will be around for several centuries and still be completely useful.  So taking care of old iron isnt folly.
> 
> Frankly the Bridgeport Mill is a classic as far as machine tools go.  The need for that sort of functionality doesn't go away. They may not be front and center in modern machine shops but there will be a few around and probably will be there in the 2200's.


As I’m new to this type of format, and not terribly computer literate. I’m sorry I didn’t reply sooner. Thank you for your thoughts. Regards


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## Richard Hed (Jul 19, 2020)

Hopsteiner said:


> Have you ever tried to bend number 2 cable? It’s like trying to break an arm. I‘ve got the spot for a 60 amp double pole, but all of that romex has to move. Ive got a project in mind so ive got to get that mill up and running.


I doesn't know if it is legal or recommended but can you, instead of replacing the service, just put a second one dedicated solely to your shop next to the original?


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## packrat (Jul 19, 2020)

I have been reading your post about the round ram Bridgeport, I have been looking for one that is close to my shop that I can afford, there seems to be more on the east cost ?, but shipping is a killer..Please keep posting updates, very informative... thanks


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 19, 2020)

Thank you, when I first started posting, I didn’t know if anyone would be interested. If you do buy one, look it over closely. As I mentioned, all I heard was Bridgeport. Home Shop Machinist is doing a series which just started this month on an M head rebuild. This should be pretty informative. If you’re not a subscriber,  go to their web site. They will send you a sample current issue. Good luck finding one. I don’t know if you would consider a “road trip” under the current virus situation. You should be able to pick one up for $1000-$1500. I’ve seen them on EBay in that range. Most guys are looking for J head machines which have power down feed. Again, good luck and I will post more pictures.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 19, 2020)

Richard Hed said:


> I doesn't know if it is legal or recommended but can you, instead of replacing the service, just put a second one dedicated solely to your shop next to the original?


What I will probably do is “clean up” everything that’s just crammed in that box. The previous owner put an addition on and just used piggy back breakers instead of upgrading. I have put a dedicatEd box in the garage, but I’ve used really heavy wire to feed it. Overkill actually, but I had all these items laying around. Eventually, i will have to bite the bullet and upgrade.


Hopsteiner said:


> Thank you, when I first started posting, I didn’t know if anyone would be interested. If you do buy one, look it over closely. As I mentioned, all I heard was Bridgeport. Home Shop Machinist is doing a series which just started this month on an M head rebuild. This should be pretty informative. If you’re not a subscriber,  go to their web site. They will send you a sample current issue. Good luck finding one. I don’t know if you would consider a “road trip” under the current virus situation. You should be able to pick one up for $1000-$1500. I’ve seen them on EBay in that range. Most guys are looking for J head machines which have power down feed. Again, good luck and I will post more pictures.


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## packrat (Jul 19, 2020)

One is for sale about 40 miles from me right now, but he wants $4000.00 for it..?? That is out of my reach $$ wise and moving it 40 miles on the freeway 
with rented trailer has me concerned.....https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/60168066


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 19, 2020)

That’s nuts. Maybe if everything has been scraped true. The table has been flaked, it has a one lube system installed. Digital read out, been repainted and aluminum polished. Way too much. Look for a community college tech school that might be upgrading. Then $4000 might be a good buy.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 19, 2020)

Where do you live, if I may ask? Grand Rapids Community College is putting an addition on their Tech Center. They have numerous J head slightly used Bridgeport’s which might come up for sale. However, a high school machine shop would be a better bet. An M head weighs about 1500 pounds, a J a little more. one of the open aluminum Trailers with a wood floor from u haul could handle that. I bought a 2 ton hoist from Harbor Freight with a short 6000 pound strap. After it’s out of the trailer, 3/4 inch black pipe, 4 pieces should help you move it in place. As with anything, common sense and fore thought come into play. If you don’t feel comfortable doing any of this, hire it. Regards, Bill


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## packrat (Jul 19, 2020)

Thanks Bill, I live out west in Utah.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 19, 2020)

In this series of photos, I’m rebuilding the screw on my Bridgeport vise. It seemed to be an odd thread, somewhere between 6 and 7 threads per inch. Since I was also going to be remaking the bronze nut, it didn’t matter. I settled on 6. In the first photo,you can see the old vise screw. In the second, I’m cutting the screw out of stainless. It’s a left hand screw so I’m cutting towards the tailstock. In the third, I’m squaring off the end of the handle. Doing this helped me use a crescent wrench as I continued to”chase” the internal Acme thread. I picked up a chunk of hard bronze for the nut. I was surprised it didn’t cut all that bad. In the fifth photo, I’ve cut the internal thread in the bronze nut and I’m chasing the internal thread to fit the external thread. In the 7th, this is the ground Acme thread.


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## comstock-friend (Jul 20, 2020)

I fiddled with a 1941 M Head s/n BH-663 for years, cleaned up the rust and grease but never did operate. When a nice late 1950's BP J head came up for sale with a equally nice South Bend 13", both very well tooled for $5K, SWMBO OK'd the purchase. Professional machinery movers got them safely up my steep driveway and into my garage in SoCal. A fellow came from Arizona to fetch my M head, his problem now. Other than adding a thing or two on them for more capability, they have been making chips since day one. Photos show the old M head in the condition I got rid of her, the pickup from Arizona and the 'new' J Head and South Bend arriving...

John


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 20, 2020)

I well understand. There was no shedding of tears as that M head departed. The J would be a big upgrade as well as the SB.


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## awake (Jul 20, 2020)

Hopsteiner said:


> That’s nuts. Maybe if everything has been scraped true. The table has been flaked, it has a one lube system installed. Digital read out, been repainted and aluminum polished. Way too much. Look for a community college tech school that might be upgrading. Then $4000 might be a good buy.



Agreed! For comparison, I bought a decent condition 2J head (variable speed) with DRO and power X-feed for $1500 - yes, that was a very good deal, made even better by the fact that the seller volunteered to deliver it and set it in place in my garage (!!!) - but I had been looking for a long, long time to find that deal. Had I been willing to spend $2500 or so, I would have secured a similar machine much, much sooner.

Note that mine is certainly not in freshly scraped condition, but it is more than good enough for my needs - and worlds better than the old mill-drill which now serves only as a shelf ...


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## packrat (Jul 20, 2020)

Quote by Hopsteiner  "I well understand. There was no shedding of tears as that M head departed. The J would be a big upgrade"

May I ask what are the problems with a Bridgeport M Head Milling Machine, there is a M head on eBay right now for $1725.00


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 20, 2020)

packrat said:


> Quote by Hopsteiner  "I well understand. There was no shedding of tears as that M head departed. The J would be a big upgrade"
> 
> May I ask what are the problems with a Bridgeport M Head Milling Machine, there is a M head on eBay right now for $1725.00


I’m no expert as mine is not up and running as of yet. The fact that it has either a morse taper, Brown and Sharp or another taper which escapes me. R8 is the standard taper which is in basic use. The M head is limited to perhaps a 3/4 inch mill. I will push this limit. Mine has a 1/2 HP motor. It is round ram and not dovetailed ram which is going to be more ridgid. And in milling Ridgitiy is tandamount. Also, it does not have power down feed. if you can live with all of this and one appears at the right price. It’s a well made machine. In my case, an Atlas vertical milling attachment on my lathe.


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## packrat (Jul 20, 2020)

Thanks for the information on the spindle taper, sounds like the old South Bend Mill with that 30MM spindle nose, I could live with that even
if I found a South Bend Mill that had some organelle tooling that came with the machine..??


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## comstock-friend (Jul 20, 2020)

Odd spindle tapers can be worked with. I also have a 1951 Index 55 vertical mill that originally had a B&S #9 taper, Available but certainly not falling out of trees like R8! Wells-Index took my quill with spindle, checked out that the bearings were in good shape and ground an R8 into it. It will now hold R8's as well as the original B&S #9! (I have two horizontal mills with B&S #9 spindles, so have a fair amount of tooling, even a B&S #9 to #7 adapter and a range of #7 collets!)

John


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 20, 2020)

packrat said:


> Thanks for the information on the spindle taper, sounds like the old South Bend Mill with that 30MM spindle nose, I could live with that even
> if I found a South Bend Mill that had some organelle tooling that came with the machine..??


As I’ve said before, I’m no expert. I’ve never seen a South Bend Mill. 


comstock-friend said:


> Odd spindle tapers can be worked with. I also have a 1951 Index 55 vertical mill that originally had a B&S #9 taper, Available but certainly not falling out of trees like R8! Wells-Index took my quill with spindle, checked out that the bearings were in good shape and ground an R8 into it. It will now hold R8's as well as the original B&S #9! (I have two horizontal mills with B&S #9 spindles, so have a fair amount of tooling, even a B&S #9 to #7 adapter and a range of #7 collets!)
> 
> John


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 20, 2020)

Must have had enough” meat” in there to grind it to an R8. Like I said earlier, all I heard was Bridgeport, when I bought mine. The guy at work was probably happy to get rid of it for the $900, he was asking. As I’ve gotten further into this mill, the table is 42 inches. The center 20 inches has been milled out and a steel Plate dropped in. T slots cut, until I had the table ground and broken out areas welded, you couldn’t tell. I was a “babe in the woods” when I bought this mill. This table must have been really butchered.These pictures were taken at the local Community College. I was taking a CNC class. They had some Bridgeports and the instructor let me bring the table in to clean it up one of the mills. Not the most accurate method which I later realized. I wound up taking it to a large machine shop with a large surface grinder. They cleaned it up, the welded areas, etc. The ironic thing is, I had the chance to buy what appeared to be a NOS 42 inch table for about $600 on eBay. I could have driven the 300 miles to Cleveland to pick it up. I tried to “lowball” the guy and lost out.


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## packrat (Jul 21, 2020)

Interesting how the table was fixed...


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 21, 2020)

The guy I bought it from was a machinist/diemaker. User beware.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 22, 2020)

This particular piece attaches to the motor and then the drum switch attaches to it. As you can see, it’s been through the “wars.”  And I‘m to blame. I was moving the machine and the head pivoted down, with the cast iron piece breaking. Well, I brazed it up and repainted it. All done right? Well, the casting base had warped. Cast iron does not bend, it is brittle. I cracked an ear off. Back to the torch to braze the ear on. This time I “spotted“ in the base with a grinder and a flat surface. Haste makes waste.


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## Hopsteiner (Jul 22, 2020)

packrat said:


> Thanks Bill, I live out west in Utah.


There’s an M head up on Ebay right now, item number 303591800572, which has been professionally rebuilt. About $2100 or offer. It’s in western Pennsylvania. I know that’s a jaunt for you but better then $4000. Make an offer, figure out the gas, one way trailer rental from Uhaul. Make a ”fun” road trip out of it. A few ratchet straps will hold it in place. It’s about 1500 pounds. Drop the knee, swing the head down, lowering the center of gravity. With gas and motels, maybe $2500 total. Again, maybe you can talk him down. Also, just thought Of this, there’s an app called Uship. Google it. You arrange and negotiate with private individuals to pick up and bring the machine to you. Sounds like this machine was a display, they want to get rid off. M heads aren’t in real high demand as J heads have more bells and whistles. You may have some leverage. Looks like a nice machine. Collets and vise, included.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 6, 2021)

Well, I finally got 220 out to the garage. Wired 110V and 220V outlets to all my tools that have sat idle for so long. Thinking my problems were over and I’d soon be making chips. Not so fast mister, the machine “gods” had other ideas. Working in a garage in cold weather presents many problems. Stiff bearings, etc. The static phase converter I have is very old. Thinking I could just plug my mill in and start making chips was the height of nativity. my mill would just sit there and “hum”, occasionally start to turn. After reading just about every post on the internet, i found that if you got any movement you probably had wired things properly. I replaced the capacitors in the SPC, both start and run. I also replaced the contacts in my drum switch, which were burnt. By this time, it was warmer. With a little hand turning, the spindle would power up to full speed. If am using the mill, and it has warmed up, it runs at full speed right away. I’m thinking it might need a little more oomph, another starter cap. in parallel. I’ve  included pictures of my adventures. Pardon the messy shop, its still a work in progress. As i like to say, its 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag. in one of the photos, you can see the vise, I’ve pretty much rebuilt with a new acme screw and nut. I also made the jaw inserts. In one of the photos you can see a project I’m working on.


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## awake (Apr 6, 2021)

You've got it looking good! Yes, does sound like there is a mismatch between  your static starter and the 3-phase motor. You might want to keep an eye out for an inexpensive or free 3-phase motor that you could turn into a rotary phase converter - you might could even use the static starter to start the RPC, but it is also easy to build an RPC using free materials from the discard pile of an HVAC shop - lots of still-good contactors and capacitors that otherwise go to waste!

I had lost track of this thread earlier, and as I was catching up I saw the discussion about the taper. I'm pretty sure the standard taper in an M-head is a Morse 2 taper. Not as common as R8, but last I checked it was still relatively easy to find a set of M2 collets without breaking the bank. M2 to JT-of-whatever-size-needed for a drill chuck are (or at least were) easy enough to find as well, but less so for one that is drilled and tapped for the draw bar. What will be much harder to find is a shank for tooling such as a boring head or a carbide facing tool ... but then again, not sure an M-head has the power or rigidity for the latter. For the boring head, you may be able to find one with a straight shank of suitable size ... or make your own, which is what I wound up doing when I had only a mill-drill with an M2 spindle.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 7, 2021)

Awake, thanks for the input. 1/2 HP isn’t much power, but it‘s an upgrade from using my Atlas mill attachment In the lathe. Where to find a usable capacitor, an HVAC shop is a good idea. As an aside on the mill, I bought new feed dials for the mill. Fitted them for clearance. Working on my project, touched off on the surface to spot a hole. Only to realize, I fitted the knee dial to the X-Y axis, and vice versa. Couldn’t figure out what was going on. Putting an indicator on the X-Y and comparing the two readings cleared things up. I‘ve got an extra drill chuck laying around. I’m thinking of cutting off the tang and drilling and tapping the taper 3/8-16. Not sure about holding the body in a 3-jaw to do the job though. I was getting so fed up with three phase, I almost bought a 3/4 hp 110/220V single phase. An adapter plate was looking very good, at that time. Found one on ebay across town. Was going to buy, but seller still wanted $40 shipping for me to pick it up.


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## packrat (Apr 7, 2021)

Quote " Was going to buy, but seller still wanted $40 shipping for me to pick it up."

Seller was out of line to try and get shipping out of you, I have bought items off eBay that were local, seller was happy to get the cash and I was on my way.


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## awake (Apr 7, 2021)

Hopsteiner, keep in mind that on a static phase converter, you only get about 2/3 of the rated power, so your 1/2 HP is even less - only about 1/3 HP. That may also be a factor in how it spins up, especially at higher spindle speeds.

And I agree - charge for shipping when there is no shipping? That suggests to me the person is scamming eBay by trying to make money on the shipping, not on the sale price.


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## Richard Hed (Apr 7, 2021)

packrat said:


> Quote " Was going to buy, but seller still wanted $40 shipping for me to pick it up."
> 
> Seller was out of line to try and get shipping out of you, I have bought items off eBay that were local, seller was happy to get the cash and I was on my way.


People who are selling stuff on ebay to get rid of unwanted stuff is one thing, but there are MANY, in fact, MOST people are not of that sort, MOST are actually businesses, permanently selling on ebay.  Those sort often charge outlandish prices for "shipping".  I have seen shipping from the same region for the same item from 4$ to 40$.  It's an insidious way to steal a few extra $$ from the customer.  I try to check the shipping prices before I buy but most often, shipping is the last item before one presses the "submit" button.  Sometimes, honest people have more than one method of shipping so you can choose but usually it's a fixt price.  You have to be really careful of these theives.


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## L98fiero (Apr 8, 2021)

deleted


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 8, 2021)

packrat said:


> Quote " Was going to buy, but seller still wanted $40 shipping for me to pick it up."
> 
> Seller was out of line to try and get shipping out of you, I have bought items off eBay that were local, seller was happy to get the cash and I was on my way.


My feelings exactly, saves them packing it up,etc. The curious thing was, I continued to watch this motor. It didn’t sell and they dropped the price. Contacted them to see if I could pick up. Shipping price went up to make the motor price, the same as it was before the discount. Lol, it‘s a motor repair shop. Won’t do any business there. I realize I’m only getting about a 1/3 HP with the SPC but this mill has been sitting so long, I’m just happy to be using it. 110/220V single is probably in my future. Regards.


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## Gordon (Apr 8, 2021)

Another thing I have found on ebay shipping is the price of the item is low but shipping is high. f there is a problem the seller will refund the item price but not the shipping. I just got a collet holder which was supposed to be EM20 but they shipped EM32. I can get a refund for the item price but I am out the shipping and have to send it back on my dime.


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## Richard Hed (Apr 8, 2021)

Hopsteiner said:


> My feelings exactly, saves them packing it up,etc. The curious thing was, I continued to watch this motor. It didn’t sell and they dropped the price. Contacted them to see if I could pick up. Shipping price went up to make the motor price, the same as it was before the discount. Lol, it‘s a motor repair shop. Won’t do any business there. I realize I’m only getting about a 1/3 HP with the SPC but this mill has been sitting so long, I’m just happy to be using it. 110/220V single is probably in my future. Regards.


There are auctions that you can generally get a motor or motors for good prices.  The auctions are now all online mostly.


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## awake (Apr 8, 2021)

Something to keep in mind is that it will likely be _much_ easier (and cheaper) to secure a 3-phase motor that could be turned into an RPC than it will be to find a motor with the proper mount for the Bridgeport. Of course, some sort of adapter could be made, but that may or may not be easy ...

Should you decide to explore the RPC route, keep in mind that your needs are very modest at this point. To run the 1/2 HP motor on your M-head, you'd probably want a 1 HP idler, and might could get by with less. The good news is, motors in this size range get scrapped out all the time. I've got two or three sitting in my garage, acquired as free scrap, and if you happen to be headed to NC sometime soon, I'd be happy to fix you up - but you can certainly find options up your way as well.

Since an HVAC shop is a great source for free / scrap contactors and capacitors, you might see if such a shop has any scrap 3-phase motors as well. The HVAC shop from which I got all the contactors and capacitors needed to build my RPC only dealt in home installations, so didn't have any 3-phase - but I could have had all the single-phase motors I ever wanted, all for free. The 3-phase motors I _have_ acquired have come either from the scrap bin at a nearby university (fortunate to have the necessary connections to be given permission to scavenge) or from a friend who used to do repair work on commercial office equipment, some of which was 3-phase. I'd guess I've picked up half a dozen 3-phase motors at one time or another, mostly 1HP or less, probably about half of them in working order. I missed out on a 10-HP motor that was scrapped out - I saw it and went to get help moving it, but someone else beat me to it.  But I did manage to snag a 3 HP 3-phase motor that had a broken end bell - I brazed it up and it is now the heart of my RPC that runs my 2HP J-head Bridgeport.


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## Sprocket (Apr 8, 2021)

I've been using a Variable Frequency Drive  on my Bridgeport. Takes 120 v. single phase and gives 220 v. 3 phase. (You can also get 220 v. single phase in, 220 v. 3 phase out) It also gives  variable speeds within the belt changes. It's a TECO Westinghouse and came from Wolf Automation. Easy to wire up, easy to use. It's actually the second one I've had for this mill, the first lost all its magic smoke after 11 or 12 years of working well. No connection to the company, but the VFD's worked for me.



( It's actually wired into the breaker box. the plugs are lights)

Doug


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 9, 2021)

awake said:


> Something to keep in mind is that it will likely be _much_ easier (and cheaper) to secure a 3-phase motor that could be turned into an RPC than it will be to find a motor with the proper mount for the Bridgeport. Of course, some sort of adapter could be made, but that may or may not be easy ...
> 
> Should you decide to explore the RPC route, keep in mind that your needs are very modest at this point. To run the 1/2 HP motor on your M-head, you'd probably want a 1 HP idler, and might could get by with less. The good news is, motors in this size range get scrapped out all the time. I've got two or three sitting in my garage, acquired as free scrap, and if you happen to be headed to NC sometime soon, I'd be happy to fix you up - but you can certainly find options up your way as well.
> 
> Since an HVAC shop is a great source for free / scrap contactors and capacitors, you might see if such a shop has any scrap 3-phase motors as well. The HVAC shop from which I got all the contactors and capacitors needed to build my RPC only dealt in home installations, so didn't have any 3-phase - but I could have had all the single-phase motors I ever wanted, all for free. The 3-phase motors I _have_ acquired have come either from the scrap bin at a nearby university (fortunate to have the necessary connections to be given permission to scavenge) or from a friend who used to do repair work on commercial office equipment, some of which was 3-phase. I'd guess I've picked up half a dozen 3-phase motors at one time or another, mostly 1HP or less, probably about half of them in working order. I missed out on a 10-HP motor that was scrapped out - I saw it and went to get help moving it, but someone else beat me to it.  But I did manage to snag a 3 HP 3-phase motor that had a broken end bell - I brazed it up and it is now the heart of my RPC that runs my 2HP J-head Bridgeport.


As a fellow scavenger, I envy your university connection. A couple of years ago, I took a Master Cam course at the local Jr. College. The things they throw out, maple work benches, etc. You name it, out with the barely used, in with the new. On that note, a friend of my son works at a local die shop. He rescued this: a 6 inch Kurt vise, which I bought reasonably.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 9, 2021)

Sprocket said:


> I've been using a Variable Frequency Drive  on my Bridgeport. Takes 120 v. single phase and gives 220 v. 3 phase. (You can also get 220 v. single phase in, 220 v. 3 phase out) It also gives  variable speeds within the belt changes. It's a TECO Westinghouse and came from Wolf Automation. Easy to wire up, easy to use. It's actually the second one I've had for this mill, the first lost all its magic smoke after 11 or 12 years of working well. No connection to the company, but the VFD's worked for me.
> View attachment 124269
> 
> ( It's actually wired into the breaker box. the plugs are lights)
> ...


It’s always interesting to see what other guys are up to in their shops. Awhile back, I was looking for a small shaper. Don’t ask me why, just a guy thing. I was on my way to the N.A.M.E. Show in southern Michigan. The shaper, I was going to buy was in northern Indiana. It was certainly meant to be. Bought the shaper for $850, an Atlas. While we were loading it into my truck, the guy said, do you need one of these? It was a VFD. What the hell, you don‘t look a gift horse in the mouth. So I actually have one on the shelf. But I have been so invested in getting the static to work, I stubbornly pushed on. I’m including pictures of the shaper and the VFD. Thanks for the reply. The shaper is sitting on a metal frame, I welded up. The drawers are from a trashed roll top desk. Funny at the show, there was an Atlas shaper for sale, little better condition, for $800. $50 less than I had just paid. If you ever get up to Michigan go to the North American Model show in Wyandotte in late April. The engines these guys make, unbelievable.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 9, 2021)

awake said:


> Something to keep in mind is that it will likely be _much_ easier (and cheaper) to secure a 3-phase motor that could be turned into an RPC than it will be to find a motor with the proper mount for the Bridgeport. Of course, some sort of adapter could be made, but that may or may not be easy ...
> 
> Should you decide to explore the RPC route, keep in mind that your needs are very modest at this point. To run the 1/2 HP motor on your M-head, you'd probably want a 1 HP idler, and might could get by with less. The good news is, motors in this size range get scrapped out all the time. I've got two or three sitting in my garage, acquired as free scrap, and if you happen to be headed to NC sometime soon, I'd be happy to fix you up - but you can certainly find options up your way as well.
> 
> Since an HVAC shop is a great source for free / scrap contactors and capacitors, you might see if such a shop has any scrap 3-phase motors as well. The HVAC shop from which I got all the contactors and capacitors needed to build my RPC only dealt in home installations, so didn't have any 3-phase - but I could have had all the single-phase motors I ever wanted, all for free. The 3-phase motors I _have_ acquired have come either from the scrap bin at a nearby university (fortunate to have the necessary connections to be given permission to scavenge) or from a friend who used to do repair work on commercial office equipment, some of which was 3-phase. I'd guess I've picked up half a dozen 3-phase motors at one time or another, mostly 1HP or less, probably about half of them in working order. I missed out on a 10-HP motor that was scrapped out - I saw it and went to get help moving it, but someone else beat me to it.  But I did manage to snag a 3 HP 3-phase motor that had a broken end bell - I brazed it up and it is now the heart of my RPC that runs my 2HP J-head Bridgeport.


Andy, I neglected to say, thanks for the hospitality. Regards, Bill


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## bdrmachine (Apr 9, 2021)

I have a 10 HP Phaseamatic converter I've meant to throw on Craigslist but haven't yet if anyone is interested.


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## awake (Apr 9, 2021)

Hopsteiner said:


> Awhile back, I was looking for a small shaper. Don’t ask me why, just a guy thing.



I have a 7" Southbend shaper, and use it all the time - it is very convenient to have it working on squaring some material while I'm doing other things on the lathe or mill. And I love the price of tooling and the satin finish ...


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 10, 2021)

awake said:


> I have a 7" Southbend shaper, and use it all the time - it is very convenient to have it working on squaring some material while I'm doing other things on the lathe or mill. And I love the price of tooling and the satin finish ...


Andy, I agree about the great finish you can get with the properly ground cutter. What’s nice is you can walk away and go work on another machine. Don’t know if you’re aware of this web site: Kay Fisher on Shapers. A lot of great information.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 10, 2021)

Got a general question about putting a DRO on my mill. The prices are all over the place. Any suggestion?


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## Sprocket (Apr 10, 2021)

I got a 4 axis DRO from tpactools last summer. Installation of the x,y,z axes was pretty straight forward, but the K (quill) axis required making mount parts.
I wasn't sure if I'd use the quill axis, but I find I use it a lot instead of the z.
It's all glass scales, you have to calibrate after installation, but the .0002" it says it's measuring is way more accurate than the sloppy screws ever were.
Amazon says "currently unavailable" probably in a container somewhere.
It was $600.00 plus tax, shipped from Illinois if I remember right.
Instructions were kind of funny, also fairly minimal. The seller seems to think you'll be able to figure it out.
I have some pics, but they aren't on this computer.
I am overall very pleased with the unit, but it is also the only DRO I've been exposed to.
Hope that is of help. I'll find those pictures.
Doug

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K52K8A0/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## L98fiero (Apr 10, 2021)

Hopsteiner said:


> Got a general question about putting a DRO on my mill. The prices are all over the place. Any suggestion?


I just installed this one, large clear letters, everything works as it's supposed to and it came complete with guards for the linear scales. How long it will last is another question but I have another Chinese DRO on my lathe that I installed about 15 years ago, the display died and with a bit of minor repair it hasn't caused any issues for the past three years. 112.2US $ 15% OFF|Complete Set 3 Axis LCD Digital Readout DRO with 3 Pieces 0 1000mm Glass Linear Scale Encoder Sensor For Milling Lathe YH800 3|Level Measuring Instruments|   - AliExpress


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 10, 2021)

Thanks, for the input. Sometimes,I feel like the guy building the sailboat who’s never sailed but enjoys building the boat.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 10, 2021)

Sprocket said:


> I got a 4 axis DRO from tpactools last summer. Installation of the x,y,z axes was pretty straight forward, but the K (quill) axis required making mount parts.
> I wasn't sure if I'd use the quill axis, but I find I use it a lot instead of the z.
> It's all glass scales, you have to calibrate after installation, but the .0002" it says it's measuring is way more accurate than the sloppy screws ever were.
> Amazon says "currently unavailable" probably in a container somewhere.
> ...


4 axis for about $6 sounds about right.


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## Richard Hed (Apr 11, 2021)

Sprocket said:


> I got a 4 axis DRO from tpactools last summer. Installation of the x,y,z axes was pretty straight forward, but the K (quill) axis required making mount parts.
> I wasn't sure if I'd use the quill axis, but I find I use it a lot instead of the z.
> It's all glass scales, you have to calibrate after installation, but the .0002" it says it's measuring is way more accurate than the sloppy screws ever were.
> Amazon says "currently unavailable" probably in a container somewhere.
> ...


Hey Sprocket, What is that little engine in your icon?  Do you have more?  can you show photos?


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 11, 2021)

Richard Hed said:


> Hey Sprocket, What is that little engine in your icon?  Do you have more?  can you show photos?





Richard Hed said:


> Hey Sprocket, What is that little engine in your icon?  Do you have more?  can you show photos?


Doug, went to their web site. Seems to be out of stock at present. You bought the 4 axis? If you did, was the quill mount difficult. Could you show some pictures of all the axis. Would appreciate seeing how you did it. Regards, Bill


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## ignator (Apr 11, 2021)

Hopsteiner: I have a Mitutoyo DRO on my Wells-Index mill. It is only a 2 axis for the X-Y table. I use a separate Mitutoyo quill, and I consider that an absolute requirement for proper depth down feed. I used that yesterday to make a controlled counter bore on a hole so they all matched up.
I did just purchase this off eBay for my surface grinder, and it has not shown up yet.








						5um /1um Linear Scale Precision Digital Readout DRO Display for Bench Lathe Mill  | eBay
					

2AXIS DRO 3AXIS DRO 2AXIS DRO LCD SCREEN 3AXIS DRO LCD SCREEN. Min resolution of DRO angle :0.0001/pulse. 1PC DRO OR 1pc Linear Scale (100/150/200/250.2000MM). Readout only allows TTL square wave signal input.



					www.ebay.com
				




These low cost DROs were not available when I put them on my Mill and lathe, hence the Mitutoyo brand, which were affordable at the time. So we shall see if this low cost China DRO is any good, it is a "TOAUTO" brand, which I found on Amazon to have good reviews. So we shall see.

On a side note, an earlier photo of your electrical panel with the 2AWG wire pulled, you don't have a bushing where you pulled the wire through the rear knockout. You need to put in some material that prevents that steel box edge from contacting the wire going through it. If there is any spring force of the copper wire pushing on the raw steel edge, it will over time cold flow the insulation of the wire, and then a major short of the grounded panel to the copper wire occurs. I would just install some chunk of the largest rubber grommet  where the wire is in contact to the steel edge. But that assumes no one messing with the wires behind that panel in the future.

If you have a VFD, you really should try that to power your 3phase motor. It does have to be a 200volt class, as they make them for 480volt and they are not compatible with the 240volt you have (400 volt class). I had a RPC, and am happy it is gone, it was a noise generator, and another power burner, that had to be started before I could use my mill. And the VFD is absolutely the best thing ever, as I leave the belts set to their mid point setting, and use the VFD to control the SFM cutter speed. As the motor is 4 pole on my machine, I enable the VFD to run 120Hz max output to give me the wide speed range. Also my VFD is what is called an sensorless vector type, which allows very low HZ with high torque of motor output.


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## ignator (Apr 11, 2021)

Gordon said:


> Another thing I have found on ebay shipping is the price of the item is low but shipping is high. f there is a problem the seller will refund the item price but not the shipping. I just got a collet holder which was supposed to be EM20 but they shipped EM32. I can get a refund for the item price but I am out the shipping and have to send it back on my dime.


You have to make sure when you start the return process to click on the hidden "not as described" or wrong item sent. It's hidden as it's not an option on the screen, as there is a 'more' button or some other pull down click needed to see these other options. But doing this, the seller has to refund the original shipping, as well provide a shipping return label at their cost. I made that mistake last year, and once filed, I could not correct it, but a call to eBay's support (which is really hard to get too) they corrected the issue, and then the seller provided the shipping label, and I got the full refund.


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## Gordon (Apr 11, 2021)

ignator said:


> You have to make sure when you start the return process to click on the hidden "not as described" or wrong item sent. It's hidden as it's not an option on the screen, as there is a 'more' button or some other pull down click needed to see these other options. But doing this, the seller has to refund the original shipping, as well provide a shipping return label at their cost. I made that mistake last year, and once filed, I could not correct it, but a call to eBay's support (which is really hard to get too) they corrected the issue, and then the seller provided the shipping label, and I got the full refund.


Just went back to ebay and the seller had not responded so they refunded the entire amount. I guess that it was a cheap lesson. The entire sale was only $16 so it was not a big deal but it was not my fault that the seller shipped the wrong item. Lesson learned. Watch price AND shipping and look at more options on return. Actually I came out ahead because I can keep the item for free except that is not too helpful since it does not fit but maybe I can give it to a friend or I may have a use for it in the future.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 11, 2021)

ignator said:


> Hopsteiner: I have a Mitutoyo DRO on my Wells-Index mill. It is only a 2 axis for the X-Y table. I use a separate Mitutoyo quill, and I consider that an absolute requirement for proper depth down feed. I used that yesterday to make a controlled counter bore on a hole so they all matched up.
> I did just purchase this off eBay for my surface grinder, and it has not shown up yet.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up on the sub panel. You’re absolutely right, that would be a very dangerous situation. I plan on replacing my service entrance panel which is only 100 amps. Went back and looked at my pictures. Not good.


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## Sprocket (Apr 11, 2021)

Richard,
That is  my version of the Zero-Six from Model Engine Builder. There were a couple of things that either didn't look right to me or the author said he'd do differently. Mechanically, it is as designed, but I made it look like I thought it should. A few pictures follow.




 Hope I'm not disturbing this thread, but there you are Richard.

Doug


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## Richard Hed (Apr 11, 2021)

Sprocket said:


> Richard,
> That is  my version of the Zero-Six from Model Engine Builder. There were a couple of things that either didn't look right to me or the author said he'd do differently. Mechanically, it is as designed, but I made it look like I thought it should. A few pictures follow.
> View attachment 124353
> View attachment 124354
> ...


Thanx for showing.  It's an ICE, I thot it might have been steam.  do you have others?  Do you have photos of this running?


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## ignator (Apr 11, 2021)

Hopsteiner said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the sub panel. You’re absolutely right, that would be a very dangerous situation. I plan on replacing my service entrance panel which is only 100 amps. Went back and looked at my pictures. Not good.


I had gotten beaten up by the local inspector here 5 years ago, it was on the main meter panel, which I replaced with a new one that had 4 circuit breaker slots for feeding power to different subpanels. I had fed wire back into the house's original service through a conduit fitting out the bottom of the panel that attached to the outside of the house. I had the original threaded 2" conduit fitting that had gone to the meter panel (1956 era). I cut the conduit shorter, and fed in the same wires plus a new ground sized to the same gauge as the L1/L2 power feeds, as the code changed to require that to be the same amperage capability. Anyway, there was a requirement for a grounding bushing that threaded onto the exposed threads of the conduit fitting. The inspector was good in that he suggested a split type bushing so I did not need to remove the wires to install the threaded on type. Even though the wires were not rubbing on the edge of the conduit fitting, he said I had to install that strain relief bushing. He said you never know when some electrician will pull on the wires in the future. Of all the inspectors I had, this guy was friendly, and not an *ss about a home owner doing their own construction. I had to pull a plumbing permit as well for the addition, and the county required I had a drawing of the plumbing I was performing. As it was, I replaced every drain pipe in the house, as they never drained properly. None of them had the required 1/4" per foot slope. And were in threaded steel pipe and cast iron main pipe to the septic system. This was all originally installed when there were no building codes. A cheap built home by amateurs. Same job I have with buying old used tools that need to be repaired.


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## awake (Apr 12, 2021)

Ignator, your story illustrates both the need for and the frustration of permits and regulations. Why do we have to get permits? Why is it sometimes so difficult for "non-professionals" to get permission to do the work? Because there are so many examples of bad work, and the county / city is trying to prevent future problems. Sometimes that bad work was done by a "professional," and sometimes an "amateur" can do the work far better and more carefully - but how can the county know which is which? Hence the permits, and inspections, and red tape.


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## Sprocket (Apr 12, 2021)

Hopsteiner,
I will take some pictures of the X,Y,Z mounting, but they were pretty easy. the only problem I found with those was there is a coolant door on the left side so I mounted both the Y and Z on the right. Lost a little travel because there is a huge old power crossfeed on the right end of the table too, but not much. I made the mount parts for the quill scale, there were no instructions, so I made it up.
 I needed to attach the reader to this, so made a clamp that fit around 3/4 of the way and mounted to the hole 


These bolted to the front of the quill





this rail came with the scale 




and I modified the angle to mount the reader on.
You make everything square and parallel, and it looks like this: 




as I said, I kind of made this up ,hope it helps.

Doug

Just an added thought, probably the most difficult part of the whole job was accurately placing, drilling with a hand drill, and tapping the holes.
I think I hit some webs in the lower castings, felt like some parts were thicker than others, broke a couple of drills in the process.


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## ignator (Apr 12, 2021)

awake said:


> Ignator, your story illustrates both the need for and the frustration of permits and regulations. Why do we have to get permits? Why is it sometimes so difficult for "non-professionals" to get permission to do the work? Because there are so many examples of bad work, and the county / city is trying to prevent future problems. Sometimes that bad work was done by a "professional," and sometimes an "amateur" can do the work far better and more carefully - but how can the county know which is which? Hence the permits, and inspections, and red tape.


If the electrical task was not connected to a major addition and putting a 2nd floor on the existing home, I would never have gotten a permit. 
That said, I did attend a trade school for 2 years for Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Technology. That was back in 1974, when refrigeration technicians also did the electrical installations (in some municipalities), so part of my training was commercial and residential wiring practices. And I had a course in National Electric Code studies per 1972? book. This has been the handiest education I could have ever received in  my life. As after working as a lab technician for The Trane Co. I went back and got an EE degree. Worked for Collins Radio for 29 years. I'm not an RF sort, but was pretty good at fixing EMI emissions, and susceptibility, during product conformance testing. I designed and validated the products I had cognizance.
I do feel myself qualified to do electrician work, at least at these low voltages.
The one thing I notice is fire hazards. Loose connections being the biggest cause. My house addition required the use of Arc Fault Circuit Breakers. I have not had any false triggering issues, but I understand that after the fact on new construction, they are swapped out with the old style, from trip annoyance (once the inspection was completed). But I see them as a good thing for fire protection. If some appliance is causing false trip, replace the appliance. I've never had that, but typically it's universal motors with brushes arching that are an issue. And if you search for tripping of these, I've found several articles where there was a nail shot through the wiring in the wall, and resulting in a low current arc.
The bigger irritation is the child resistant outlets, as it's a bastard addon to a design that was never intended to have little doorways to inhibit children messing with the contacts. And they make plug insertion a PITA. But it's now code to use them in residential installations. Even there, the inspector reminded me of this during the rough in inspection (note they are not required for outbuildings and garage/shops). I did argue with him about outlets adjacent to stairs, as I said they were a trip hazard, so should not be installed there, that was a dumb thought on my part, as plugging in the vacuum cleaner is now a pain, as I have to run a long cord to reach. They should be installed at the top and bottom, and halfway as long as that's less then the 12 foot code standard spacing.

To put this post back on topic about the BP round ram machine, 
Hopsteiner:  what makes the VFD so useful, is you can (in all I've used) have the LED display on the panel, display your spindle RPM. This is done by programing in the motor to spindle ratio in a program parameter, and having the display convert the Hz setting, using that conversion factor to display spindle RPM. I use this on my lathes, mills, and drill presses. It makes staying below 100SFM of steel with any cutter a simple math problem of computing that for the cutter diameter. I'm about to do this on my 4x6 bandsaw (replace the 1phase with a 3phase and power with the VFD), and have the display in SFM. Then I can dial in the speed of brass, aluminum or steel.
Install of a VFD is fairly easy, the only real rule is to never put a switch between the VFD and motor, hard wire this. This is because a sudden open on a motor winding can result in an induced high voltage that can damage the output transistors of the VFD. Control is done with the discrete inputs of the VFD, and done at low voltages provided by the VFD.


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## Sprocket (Apr 12, 2021)

If your Bridgeport has a back gear, it may run in reverse in back gear, at least mine does. The VFD allows me to reverse motor direction with a couple of button pushes.
Doug


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## Richard Hed (Apr 13, 2021)

awake said:


> Ignator, your story illustrates both the need for and the frustration of permits and regulations. Why do we have to get permits? Why is it sometimes so difficult for "non-professionals" to get permission to do the work? Because there are so many examples of bad work, and the county / city is trying to prevent future problems. Sometimes that bad work was done by a "professional," and sometimes an "amateur" can do the work far better and more carefully - but how can the county know which is which? Hence the permits, and inspections, and red tape.


It's true, The permitting has to pay for the inspector and who knows what else, but it really is a good thing.  People who build something that others may buy or inherit are dangerous if they don't know what they are doing.  However, I put in a 220V line for my lathe a couple months ago with dedicated breakers and the required metal part where the wire goes into the breaker box.  It didn't cost all that much -- much less than insurance, and it was easy to install -- BECAUSE I knew what I was doing.  It's not that difficult, but then I know what I am doing and I know what is required.  I didn't get a permit but then, it was only one line and plug.  If everyone knew everything, then we most likely would not need inspectors, but who, in the modern ages, can know how to do everything?  Not many, just myself and a few others. (LOL< yeah, right!)  I say all this and yet I am one of those people who REALLY hate government and governmental interference.  Just remember that it is government which builds water piping, sewers, roads and electric lines.  WE are the government (in the so-called democracies), we unite to build things that we ALL benefit from.  None of us could build a road by ourselves nor water lines nor sewer lines nor electric lines by ourselves.


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## ignator (Apr 13, 2021)

Richard Hed said:


> It's true, The permitting has to pay for the inspector and who knows what else, but it really is a good thing.  People who build something that others may buy or inherit are dangerous if they don't know what they are doing.  However, I put in a 220V line for my lathe a couple months ago with dedicated breakers and the required metal part where the wire goes into the breaker box.  It didn't cost all that much -- much less than insurance, and it was easy to install -- BECAUSE I knew what I was doing.  It's not that difficult, but then I know what I am doing and I know what is required.  I didn't get a permit but then, it was only one line and plug.  If everyone knew everything, then we most likely would not need inspectors, but who, in the modern ages, can know how to do everything?  Not many, just myself and a few others. (LOL< yeah, right!)  I say all this and yet I am one of those people who REALLY hate government and governmental interference.  Just remember that it is government which builds water piping, sewers, roads and electric lines.  WE are the government (in the so-called democracies), we unite to build things that we ALL benefit from.  None of us could build a road by ourselves nor water lines nor sewer lines nor electric lines by ourselves.


I'm with you Richard, but not everyone knows how to do electrical installation. The worst thing I see, is the county (building department, and issuer of the permit) typically in my experience has inspectors that are jerks with  homeowners doing any construction work. I think because they have to get off their butts and do inspection. There are so many examples of work done by licensed contractors that is subpar to extremely unsafe, but the inspector never looks at their work. But I've seen issues where the police are called when the inspector shows up, and is assaulted by an irate DIY sort that gets offended for having their shoddy work critiqued.
What I've seen here, the developers and construction trades and contractors give campaign donations (bribes) to the county and city officials, and have the codes written to make it extremely difficult for DIY. I'd rather see, if additional inspections are required because they are finding unsafe workmandship, then added fees to cover their time may be needed. I just wish they didn't have a 'big chip on their shoulder'.


Back to the Bridgeport post;

I had the ToAuto DRO delivered today. DHL was the carrier ordered it March 31, the seller didn't ship till April 11, but it's here on the 13th.
I plugged it in out in the shop to see if the 2 axis display would power up. It was dead. I started at the power plug, and the ohm meter shows an open on all three lines, hot neutral and ground. So they didn't test it with the cord thrown in the box. The cord end that plugs into the back of the machine is an EIA type test equipment plug. I took one from my bench and the display powered up. I didn't like they way the shipped the display. They put in the manual and folded the thick plastic keyboard cover, then inserted the extrusion arm that the display can be mounted cantilevered from the users selected surface. This put a kink in that plastic cover. I'll see if a hot air gun will smooth that out. That plastic is important to keep the display clean from greasy fingers. 
The scales are 1 micrometer resolution. And the seller pre programed the display to show this resolution. So now to install it on the surface grinder. 
This cost $275USD, shipping was included. 
I attached the manual for this, reads like poorly translated quality.


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## Poppy Ott (Apr 13, 2021)

I installed a 3-axis DRO from Toauto on my mill and a 2-axis on the Enco lathe a couple weeks ago.  Still have not looked at the manual ( if it’s anything like the manual that came the VFD’s I have on my three lathes it probably is not worth the effort).  Instead, I went to YouTube to see how to set up the DRO’s.  Were you able to get a set of scales that fit without cutting?  Between the two machines I had to cut four out of the five scales.


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## ignator (Apr 13, 2021)

Poppy Ott said:


> Were you able to get a set of scales that fit without cutting?  Between the two machines I had to cut four out of the five scales.


I'll start install tomorrow. But I got 2, 12inch scales. My mill and two lathes have a DRO, currently. I assume install is the same. I should have gotten magnetic scales, for the grinding dust, but they wanted much more for them, and we shall see if this is a problem.


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## Hopsteiner (Apr 13, 2021)

Sprocket said:


> Hopsteiner,
> I will take some pictures of the X,Y,Z mounting, but they were pretty easy. the only problem I found with those was there is a coolant door on the left side so I mounted both the Y and Z on the right. Lost a little travel because there is a huge old power crossfeed on the right end of the table too, but not much. I made the mount parts for the quill scale, there were no instructions, so I made it up.View attachment 124366
> I needed to attach the reader to this, so made a clamp that fit around 3/4 of the way and mounted to the hole View attachment 124367
> View attachment 124375
> ...


Doug, thank you very much. Looking to buy a 4 axis unit from Tpac tools at the end of the week. The pictures are great.


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## ignator (Apr 13, 2021)

Hopsteiner said:


> Doug, thank you very much. Looking to buy a 4 axis unit from Tpac tools at the end of the week. The pictures are great.


I hope that kit comes with the mounting plates or bars that mount to the machine, and then the scales to those. The ToAuto didn't even come with installation instructions. So I have to make all those parts. I know what has to be done, but the other three I've installed had all the required mounting hardware, and quality instructions. The main task is to sweep along the faces of the scale and ensure they are parallel to the machine. You're trying to prevent any rubbing of the glass scale by the reader. But it was cheap........


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## Sprocket (Apr 13, 2021)

It actually came with the rails, angles, nuts and bolts, shims, pretty much everything for the x,y,z and only the mounting rail for the quill. I used the metric hardware for most of it, but got some 1/4-20 carriage head bolts where slotted parts fit together. Except for the quill, there were plenty of parts. And he said he wasn’t even going to try for the quill. “All different “
Doug


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## Richard Hed (Apr 14, 2021)

ignator said:


> I'm with you Richard, but not everyone knows how to do electrical installation. The worst thing I see, is the county (building department, and issuer of the permit) typically in my experience has inspectors that are jerks with  homeowners doing any construction work. I think because they have to get off their butts and do inspection. There are so many examples of work done by licensed contractors that is subpar to extremely unsafe, but the inspector never looks at their work. But I've seen issues where the police are called when the inspector shows up, and is assaulted by an irate DIY sort that gets offended for having their shoddy work critiqued.
> What I've seen here, the developers and construction trades and contractors give campaign donations (bribes) to the county and city officials, and have the codes written to make it extremely difficult for DIY. I'd rather see, if additional inspections are required because they are finding unsafe workmandship, then added fees to cover their time may be needed. I just wish they didn't have a 'big chip on their shoulder'.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, that's all true--little men with too much power, or at least they thimk they have the power (much more so with police.)  I could write an encyclopedia about this.


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## L98fiero (Apr 14, 2021)

Richard Hed said:


> It's true, The permitting has to pay for the inspector and who knows what else, but it really is a good thing.  People who build something that others may buy or inherit are dangerous if they don't know what they are doing.


Another example of people not knowing what they are doing, when we moved into our present home there was 43volts on the neutral, I found that out when I installed an led light fixture and wondered why it was lighting at about 10% with the switch off


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## Richard Hed (Apr 14, 2021)

L98fiero said:


> Another example of people not knowing what they are doing, when we moved into our present home there was 43volts on the neutral, I found that out when I installed an led light fixture and wondered why it was lighting at about 10% with the switch off


What the hell?  Did you get it squared away?  What caused 43V?  Was it some kind of transformer?  Something else?  That's not good at all especially if it had high amperage capability.  Jesu kristo.


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## L98fiero (Apr 14, 2021)

Richard Hed said:


> What the hell?  Did you get it squared away?  What caused 43V?  Was it some kind of transformer?  Something else?  That's not good at all especially if it had high amperage capability.  Jesu kristo.


Took a lot of searching and rewiring but it was because the PO didn't obviously know the difference between a hot and a neutral wire or that there was a difference.


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## Richard Hed (Apr 14, 2021)

L98fiero said:


> Took a lot of searching and rewiring but it was because the PO didn't obviously know the difference between a hot and a neutral wire or that there was a difference.


43 V is so unusual -- it must have been routed thru a lot of resistance somewhere.  Yeah, I bet it did take a lot of searching.  finding something like that is a day-mare!


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## Hopsteiner (May 24, 2021)

Hopsteiner said:


> As a fellow scavenger, I envy your university connection. A couple of years ago, I took a Master Cam course at the local Jr. College. The things they throw out, maple work benches, etc. You name it, out with the barely used, in with the new. On that note, a friend of my son works at a local die shop. He rescued this: a 6 inch Kurt vise, which I bought reasonably.


To anyone rebuilding a Kurt vise, be careful to not lose the little half moon piece that keeps the moveable jaw from rising. I soaked my recent purchase in a 5 gal. Bucket of rust remover. Losing this little piece in the “soup”. Cleaned and repainted and back together, looked forward to using this accurate,  strong vise. The moveable jaw lifted, no matter what I did. Adjustment screw made no difference. After investigating and looking at rebuild kits for this Kurt vise, I noticed this little piece. Which was missing. It rides on the end of the screw and fits in a round pocket on the moveable jaw. This keeps it from rising. What the hell. Where was mine. I almost bought one for $6 on Ebay, until I noticed this small half moon piece of metal laying on my shop floor. Problem solved.


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