# Team build



## Brass_Machine (Mar 8, 2008)

I think that is a great idea Giles.

Some others that have discussed:

1) Team design - a weekend engine maybe?

2) Team build - an engine is picked, people build 1 piece and send it a designated 'builder', assembled. Then maybe sell it on Ebay and donate proceeds either to a charity or to the running of this site.

Eric


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## rickharris (Mar 8, 2008)

The idea of a team built engine is attractive - working accurately to drawings without the luxury of being able to fit the parts together - Almost like Industry -

Design in UK (OK I am British), Manufacture in India, eastern Europe and China, Sell in USA.

But who would own it after? Donate to a museum?


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## Bogstandard (Mar 8, 2008)

Rick,
The team built idea is a non starter if there is no interaction between the fitting of parts between members, unless the components can be made to zero tolerances. 
Imagine a cylinder being made with 0.002" +- tolerance, and a piston being made to the same tolerances by someone else. High on one, low on another could mean a 0.004" interferance or the opposite dimension could result in a very sloppy fit.
Many parts have to be made for interaction with a close fitting other part.

Giles,

How many to be made in a weekend?

John


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## gilessim (Mar 8, 2008)

John, I didn't say that it had to be done in a weekend, no time limit! and I agree with you about the team build thing, that could be problematic , we would only need someone who wouldn't participate ,to make up a list of materials and off we go!

Giles


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## BobWarfield (Mar 8, 2008)

Rick and John, a couple of principles of the team build:

- First, each person builds enough copies of their parts so that everyone winds up with all the parts needed to assemble their own engine. We wouldn't just build enough for one engine. I have seen cases where additional engines got built too and then auctioned off to provide funds for charity or the club to use.

- RE precision, you have three choices: 

  - Keep parts that must fit precisely together (i.e. cylinder and piston) are made by the same guy.

  - Build to sufficient tolerance. John, it's never zero tolerance, but it may be less than a thousandth sometimes. Or maybe not. 

  - Build to less than sufficient tolerance and then fine tune immediately before assembly with an additional step.

Making this all work out is part of the fun of a team build! Having to make more than one part means you can get good at your part, or even build some special purpose fixturing to increase your standards and productivity.

Note that lots of things could be built this way. For example, if everyone suddenly wanted a KMG clone 2" x 72" belt grinder, or a Quorn Cutter. Probably best to try it on something simpler to start though!

Another thought is that different folks will have different strengths and weaknesses that ought to be factored into their assignments. This is based on their skills, interests, and available machinery. Someone with a CNC mill or lathe can do things others can't. Someone may have an anodizing rig, so that everyone need not have one.

I'd love to see us do a team build of something fun. Count me in! Someone with a good design ought to coordinate. Lots of guys here with plans. We need a volunteer.

Cheers,

BW


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## Bernd (Mar 9, 2008)

Great idea Bob. 

You said "Build to less than sufficient tolerance and then fine tune immediately before assembly with an additional step."

At work we called this "fit in assmenly" The tolerances that Bogs mentioned wouldn't be a problem to work to. For example a piston would be made to a size of .500" +.005 -.000. The cylinder bore would be made to .500" +/-.002. When the piston arrives at the assmebly point it would be trimmed to fit the bore.

I'd love to be included in this but have that major build to finish: "The House". And the wife isn't letting me forget about it. 

Regards,
Bernd


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## tattoomike68 (Mar 9, 2008)

This idea is great, I would be willing to make any part thats all turning. My mill is less than wonderful.


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## BobWarfield (Mar 9, 2008)

Hmmm. That was very jarring. Did we really need to split the thread?

Whatever.

BW


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 9, 2008)

If we are going to do this, and I think we should, a new forum maybe called "Group Builds" or "Board Projects". "Board Projects" is probably better that way it can include other things such as Giles idea of a challenge.

Eric


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## Powder keg (Mar 9, 2008)

I'm in. If the engine needs a cast base let me know) What kind of engine do we want to build? I think the first one should be fairly simple?

Wes


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 9, 2008)

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> I'm in. If the engine needs a cast base let me know) What kind of engine do we want to build? I think the first one should be fairly simple?
> 
> Wes



Absolutely simple at first. I am thinking maybe a steamer? That way we are not dealing with carbs and ignition at first. Maybe one of Elmers?

Eric


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## tattoomike68 (Mar 9, 2008)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> If we are going to do this, and I think we should, a new forum maybe called "Group Builds" or "Board Projects". "Board Projects" is probably better that way it can include other things such as Giles idea of a challenge.
> 
> Eric



Eric if we do what we say we are going to do and build a running engine at that point I will be happy to add a board, till then a sticky thread or two in the "A Work In Progress" will work. :0

I think we have things covered and dont want to add too many boards , if two board serve the same porpose we will just merge the boards later. 

See what Rake60 and the others think of that but thanks for the idea. I will keep it in mind.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 9, 2008)

As far as plans how about Elmers Scottythere are about a dozen parts and it is two pages one of the plans and one describing the build. The smallest fastener is 2-56. the bore is 3/8. IMHO I would not want to see smaller than this for a team build.The engine is fairly small and would not take a lot of material.
It is a little more interesting that a wobbler but do not think too complex. The fly wheel is spokeless but could be dressed up if desired. 
As far as a new sub- forum I agree with Mike lets see if this Idea can be put together and we can get 'er flying before we build a hangar. 
Bob :
Did not mean to startle you but believe the team build and the design challenge are both good viable ideas. They are also different enough that each deserves individual attention. Having both tangled together in the same thread IMHO would get confusing. 


Tin


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## Jadecy (Mar 9, 2008)

I'd like to be included as a "part maker". I will try to keep an eye on the thread.


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## Powder keg (Mar 9, 2008)

I like the poppin) Maybe double sized?

Poppin plans


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 9, 2008)

Hmmm. That one is pretty neat too.

So, should we set this up? Pick a few engines and vote on it? Get a list of builders?

Eric


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## dave e (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi guys,

If you haven't heard about this one, there's already an ambitous team build underway. Here's the link:

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/HowellV4.htm

I didn't participate in the last one, I picked some "easy" parts to do so I'm not really sure how they deal with tolerances.

Dave


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 10, 2008)

Ok. So who is in? I would like to put together a list of people who would like to be involved in this. After that, then we need to determine a few things. Some of those things:

1) choose an engine.
2) decide if we only build 1 engine, then sell/donate for a charity OR make enough parts for everyone to have their own.
3) materials/skills etc...


so YOU in???

Eric


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## zeusrekning (Mar 10, 2008)

I'm in. I would suggest after the team build putting the engine in custody of one of the senior members who frequents model or model engine shows. Let this member display the engine as free advertising for HMEM. Just an idea to build upon. But I'm up for any CNC millied parts.
Tim


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## gilessim (Mar 10, 2008)

I'm in too, but maybe for the more artistic bits ,like a base or other display stuff, my machining is pretty good but I don't have the experience of most of you guys!, I'm in from this side of the pond anyway!

Giles


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 10, 2008)

Ok so far we have 6 members that have actually said count me in. That would be Bob ,Mike, Jaydacey, Wes, Tim , and Giles. And I would say it looks like Eric is interested. And I may as well throw some parts in the hat. So that looks like 8
So I would say there is enough interest to do this. 
My thought is since this team build is new let's keep it simple.

Tim I like your Idea of show exposure. So what about this Idea??
Each team member machines multiple copies of his assigned part. And an extra. The team leader or assigned member would assemble the extra engine that would be displayed and raffled off at a Show such as Cabin fever. Proceeds to benefit the board. So each member of the team would end up with there own Team build engine and the board would get attention/advertising and benefit. 
We need more Ideas for plans. IMHO it should be a simple but interesting air steam engine . and I for one think making a dozen or so copies of the same part is about the limit. I do not think any of us want to feel like we are having to run production quantity parts in our shop. 
So if you want to participate answer the poll also lets see a fe more options for plans.

Tin


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## BobWarfield (Mar 10, 2008)

I'm in. Elmer's engines are all good. If it was me choosing, I have a special like for the Hula Hula, just 'cause its different. It looks very easy to make one. There's a movie of J. King's Hula here:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=892.0

If we had "too many" who wanted to participate, can always hand out the cylinders to more than one person.

Cheers,

BW


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 10, 2008)

I am in. HOWEVER... I will be off line for the next couple of days (well off and on) My wife is at the hospital and the baby is coming ;D ;D ;D

Eric


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## shred (Mar 10, 2008)

With something like the hula hula, if one person made both a piston and cylinder, some of the fit issues would be lessened.


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## Powder keg (Mar 10, 2008)

There seems to be a bit of interest in those solenoid engines? How about one of those? They look fairly easy to build and there aren't to many tolerances that need to be held close. That and I'd like one)

Later, Wes


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 11, 2008)

Elmers Open column with reverse is another possibility
as is the  Wobble plate
Guys if suggesting an engine plan please post a link so we can all see the plans. I think we are close to posting a poll to try to make a selection. 
Tin


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 12, 2008)

Ok guys: 
   Looking at the poll results it looks like we are going for a multiple build here. 
  I will add that my engines do get displayed and it is my intent that my copy of a team build engine would be included in my display and due credit given to the HMEM board and participating builders. So I think we have the bases covered in that department. 
  So in order to move forward I will post a poll to select a design and another for time frame of completion. I am keeping nominations for a design open at this time but if there are anymore Ideas get them in soon. 
  Here is the loose criteria . Something fairly simple but interesting. Plans available for free download so we all have access for evaluation and build info. IMHO a range of 3/8 to 3/4 bore is reasonable . Too small and we run into tight tolerance issues as well as tiny is harder to build in general. Too large and we eliminate the folks with small machines. Also the amount and therefore cost of materials and shipping parts to each other rises rapidly. All nominations must have a link so we can all see the plans. 
A plan set with all the parts on one page and consisting of a dozen or so parts is good since it looks like the team will have 8-10 members.
I am including Poppin the flame licker in the poll .Even though the part count is around 24 many of the parts are simple. Some Team members may have multiple easy or small parts to make if that one is chosen.
It was my intent to leave the first poll open however it appears that the forum software allows for one poll per thread . So in that light I am closing the how many engines do we build poll and going on to select a design. I regret any inconvenience to anyone that did not get to vote on the first poll ,it appears we have a majority decision of building an engine for each member plus one for auction or raffle. 57% of the vote with 9 people voting.
  I am suggesting a 3 month build time so engine parts would be completed by the end of June 2008 but we can discuss that later. 

Regards
Tin


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## joe d (Mar 12, 2008)

If not too late, I'd like to throw my name in the hat for the build team as well. Especially if there are small machine friendly parts... (even better if they are the ones with the +/- .5" tolerance :big:!). I'm voting for the open column, just 'cause I've wanted to build one one day anyway.

Cheers, 
Joe


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 12, 2008)

Joe your name is now in the Hat. So that brings the current team count to 9 . I will go back and make sure i am not missing someone. So far we have Bob , Mike , Jadecy, Wes, Tim, Giles , Jim, Eric and now Joe. If you said you wanted in and your name is not on this list let us know so it can be added.
IMHO we need to limit to each member building a dozen of each part. 
Regards 
Tin Falcon 
AKA jim


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 12, 2008)

Guy's if there is room I would like to be included as a builder also. ;D


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 12, 2008)

Deer_x475 you are in #10
BTW what is your real name? first name only needed. 
Tin Falcon
Aka Jim


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## BobWarfield (Mar 12, 2008)

Another thought:

It would be really cool if those who sign up post pix of how they go about making their particular part. This way others can participate vicariously, or even follow in our footsteps at a later date. I bet it makes for one heck of a neat thread if everyone was posting their pics to the same thread to show progress.

Best,

BW


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## rake60 (Mar 12, 2008)

I have to say, I'm LOVING this thread! ;D

Sadly, prior responsibilities would not allow the time for me to participate.

When this crazy idea of building a model machining community first started, 
I wasn't sure it would even be recognized.

Now, watching something like this come together just BLOWS ME AWAY!

If any of you team builders have any difficulty in finding the stock to make your
specific part, please email me. I'll do what I can to see that you get it in a timely
manner.

Rick


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 12, 2008)

Yea Rick this board has made me smile more that you will ever know. Thank again!


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 12, 2008)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> Another thought:
> 
> It would be really cool if those who sign up post pix of how they go about making their particular part. This way others can participate vicariously, or even follow in our footsteps at a later date. I bet it makes for one heck of a neat thread if everyone was posting their pics to the same thread to show progress.
> 
> ...



Bob I intend to do a pictorial of what ever I build....I better get busy and get this Webster finished..))


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 12, 2008)

Ok great progress.
It has been decided to do a multiple build. 
Hear is the team :
Bob Warfield/ BW
TatooMike/ Mike
Powder Keg / Wes
Jaydece
Zeustrekning / Tim
GilesM/ Giles
Brass_Machine / Eric
Tin Falcon / Jim
Joe_D / Joe
deere_475guy / Bob A
So Ten team members
It looks like we will have a plan set chosen soon.
Regards 
Jim
PS I like the photo documentation and progress post idea.


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## zeusrekning (Mar 12, 2008)

I thinks the photo documentaion is one of the most important parts of this project. If each person documents most of the build we will wind up with a very complete step by step guide. It would also be easier than one person trying document as much by themselves. 
Tim


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## DickDastardly40 (Mar 13, 2008)

Sorry to be thick, but where is the best place to see the proposed team build engines so as to make an informed decision as which to vote for?

I think it's a great idea, Good luck!

Al


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 13, 2008)

Dick:
Are you saying you whant to be part of the team? We can sqeeze in one more!!
The links to the engine prints are posted amonnst the discusion.
Tin


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## DickDastardly40 (Mar 13, 2008)

Tin,

Include me out for this one please, too much going on as it is and possibly difficult logistically as I'm in the UK.

I (perhaps mistakenly) thought that what you are going to build was for the entire group to vote on rather than just the builders.

If it works well I'll perhaps be interested next time.

As I said good luck!


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## gilessim (Mar 13, 2008)

I was just looking again at the open column plans (if we decide on that design) and was wondering if we should double up the size? or is the fact that it's small make it more interesting and challenging?.

Giles


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## Mcgyver (Mar 13, 2008)

neat idea, too much on the go for me right now, but good luck with it and I look forward to progress reports and photos. what engine did you decide on or did you yet?


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## joe d (Mar 13, 2008)

gilessim  said:
			
		

> was wondering if we should double up the size?
> 
> Giles



Somebody with way more experience than me can/should chime in here (Bogstandard, where are you?) but wouldn't an increase in cylinder size require re-engineering the sizes of the steam passages/valves? IIRC this is not a simple question of double cylinder size = double supply tubing size, but that there is some complex and arcane maths involved here. That said, if somebody can do the maths, it would be pretty cool to increase the size of the project. On the other hand, it would exponentially increase postage costs sending the various bits around the country/continent/world ;D. 

Joe


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## Bogstandard (Mar 13, 2008)

Very sorry Joe,

I would just love to get involved with this, just up my street.

But planned projects and customers bits and bobs preclude me from taking part.

There are only so many hours in a day, and I'm not getting enough sleep as it is.

It must be the members who are doing it that makes the decisions, otherwise the whole exercise is pointless. How else are they going to get that little extra bit of experience if they don't work it out for themselves and come to a joint decision.
There is different between when someone asks for help, and when you want to work it out for yourself.

Good luck on your project lads.

John


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 13, 2008)

The latest update
The hands down winner of which engine to build is Elmer's Open Column w/ reverse 60% of the vote Scotty received three votes an Poppin one since there are 10 team Members it appears all votes are in. 
I will now be posting poll on time frame. Please team members only voting. IMHO Three month build time would be good but please vote.
Joe as far a scaling up doubling the size exponentially increases the amount of material needed. So it would increase the amount of stock and therefore the cost by 8 times.(2 cubed) and yes increase mailing costs as well. 
Also we will need to pick a team captain soon so keep that in mind.
I would also like to have work assignments figured out by the first of April. 
Tin


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 13, 2008)

Tim where do we vote on the build time? There is an icon at the top but it shows locked.

LOL forget it, shows ok now..


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 13, 2008)

Bob A a whoops on my part sorry. Now fixed!!!
Tin


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## defarijf (Mar 13, 2008)

Sorry i didn't see where member of the team could only vote. I would liked to be on the team but I don't have the equipment to build one , some day. Looking forward to the progress of the team build. 
Joe


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 13, 2008)

Joe:
It was not actually written anywhere stating only team members could vote. But it could create a bit of mayhem if a bunch of other folks decided what and how the team is to build. 
Tin Falcon 
Aka Jim


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 13, 2008)

Team members 
If you have not already done so I suggest you download and print a set of the plans for Elmer's Open column w/reverse read the instructions and look over the prints closely. 
Tin Falcon


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## zeusrekning (Mar 13, 2008)

I don't think a vote for Team Captain is necessary. I think you've already stepped up to that challenge (Tin).
Tim


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 13, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> I don't think a vote for Team Captain is necessary. I think you've already stepped up to that challenge (Tin).
> Tim



I had planned to run with this idea for awhile. I thought I would have had a little more time before my son came (was supposed to be induced this weekend) to work on this project. I am VERY GRATEFUL Tin stepped up and did what needed to be done. 

I do have an idea about this tho... for future team builds (I see this becoming popular), we rotate in captains for each build. Only have 1 build going at a time.

thoughts??

Eric


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 14, 2008)

Eric:
 If this concept is to continue it is imperative that more folks get involved both as builders and as leadership. It would be great for this to be an ongoing activity. If not on a continuous thing at least a couple builds a year would be nice. Summers can be filled with house and garden projects and the November/December holiday season can be busy family times. 
That being said let us endeavor to make this first , April-June 2008 build a success and pave the way for future team builds. 

BTW the votes are in as far as build time 9 out of ten people agree with the Three month build time with one vote for six months. 

The original thread and idea for the team build was was the work of Brass_Machine aka Eric. It was never my intent to push him aside and make myself the leader. Eric has expressed appreciation of me stepping in and keeping the ball rolling as he has had the joyful responsibility of being there with his family as his son was born. 
That being said we will proceed with the next poll. 
Tin Falcon


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 14, 2008)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Eric:
> If this concept is to continue it is imperative that more folks get involved both as builders and as leadership. It would be great for this to be an ongoing activity. If not on a continuous thing at least a couple builds a year would be nice. Summers can be filled with house and garden projects and the November/December holiday season can be busy family times.
> That being said let us endeavor to make this first , April-June 2008 build a success and pave the way for future team builds.
> 
> ...



That 6 month vote was me... I clicked the wrong one.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 14, 2008)

Looking over the plans I notice that it is fairly common practice that Elmer Versberg uses some less than common thread sizes on his engines. 
So we will need to decide if we are going to stick with that plans or make changes as needed to use common sizes readily available or already on hand. In my experience in most cases there are no major effects of going up or down one size. Going up a size can look a little out of scale and going down will reduce strength some. but this is not a work horse engine so i do not see a major problem there.We must however be careful of any changes that effect fit of mating parts and all stay on the same page.
Tin


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 14, 2008)

Tin... I voted for you as captain ;D I would be more than willing to share with you, but you have done a lot of footwork already. I can take the next one 

Eric


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 14, 2008)

Eric thanks for the vote of confidence. 


For those of you not participating in this team build I have been having a few thoughts. 
1) Eric has already expressed a desire to head up the next one. That would begin build as early as the beginning of June. Maybe we can do one a quarter. 
2)To the experience members of the boards your suggestions are welcome. 
To the newbies please read and ask questions of the team members as this build proceeds.
To all:At an appropriate time probably in three months sign up for the next team build. 
And again please only team members voting on the polls.
Tin


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## BobWarfield (Mar 15, 2008)

Once we get past all the procedural stuff and we have assigned everyone their part (I'll be interested to see that, I'm hoping to be the flywheel man! LOL), it would be nice to start a new thread that is entirely focused on the build. That way people won't have to read all this managerial overhead if they just want to see an engine get built. We can then refer back to this thread if we have procedural discussion to do. 

Does that make sense to kind of have 2 threads, one for managing and one for the show and tell action shots?

Cheers,

BW


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## gilessim (Mar 15, 2008)

I thought that I would like to make some nice wooden bases for the engines from some rosewood that I have aswell as any parts that are assigned to me, also maybe for the display version , if someone has a CNC mil and could cut out the letters HMEM like the logo, from some brass sheet I can inlay them into the wood base and maybe some little brass plaques for everyone else?...just a thought.

Giles


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 15, 2008)

Bob: 
  makes perfect sense to start a new, separate, build thread. 
One with lots of pictures 8)
Yes a nice base and plaque would be good. My through was a CNC'd engraved plaque w the HMEM letters and the name or moniker of the team members with the build dates. I would like to see the plaque size the same size or smaller that the engine base so it does not detract. There may not be room for all the names we will see.


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## Jadecy (Mar 15, 2008)

sounds like things are going to start moving real soon. Are there any better prints of the plans? I was looking over the pdf I got from the web and it is really hard to make out some of the dimensions.

Ob boy this is going to be fun! ;D ;D ;D


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## zeusrekning (Mar 15, 2008)

I started modeling the engine last night. I have found a few questionable or missing dimensions. The first one is View "CC" of the bearing, does anyone know what the height is supposed to be? I have it in as 1-1/4". If everyone (mostly me) can be patient, I hope to have it finished this weekend. I also agree with the two threads. 
Tim 
P.S. I had no Idea how small this engine was till I started modeling.


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## mklotz (Mar 15, 2008)

I checked Elmer's book and it is indeed 1-1/4".


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 15, 2008)

For those of you that have not seen it, here is the link Rick's Build of Elmers open column.
Tin


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## rake60 (Mar 15, 2008)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> For those of you that have not seen it, here is the link Rick's Build of Elmers open column.
> Tin



Thanks for the plug Tin.

Mine ended up looking like this.





The shifter knob is actually a .177 air gun BB drill to fit the shifter rod.

Marv also did an impressive build of the Open Column with Reverse.




I feel I'm safe is saying either one of us will be more than happy to answer any questions
that may arise along the way.

Rick


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## b.lindsey (Mar 16, 2008)

I think this is a good choice for the team build and look forward to following the posts and pictures. Here are a few pics of my version of it.


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## zeusrekning (Mar 16, 2008)

Two questions? I drew the cylinder up @ 1-1/16" dia. with two turned down sections at 1/2" dia. It doesn't look correct. Also, on the crankshaft, is 1/2" stroke correct? It shows 1/4" from center to the #3-48 hole but it looks closer to the edge. Thanks for the help. 
Tim


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## rake60 (Mar 16, 2008)

Tim

The major OD of the cylinder should be 11/16" (.687")

The stroke of the crank is 1/2" 

Rick


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## zeusrekning (Mar 16, 2008)

Makes since now. Thanks Rick.


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## zeusrekning (Mar 16, 2008)

Got it modeled.


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## BobWarfield (Mar 16, 2008)

Zuesrekning, cool!

Is that Solidworks? Can you export it to Rhino3D? I'd love to have that model.

This is a fine looking little engine. I think the group has chosen well for a first project.

I'm getting well ahead of myself, but at some point we should do a set of "steam accessories". We'll need a boiler, of course, but perhaps a few lineshaft miniature machine tools or a dynamo would be cool too.

Wouldn't that be a kick?

Cheers,

BW


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## zeusrekning (Mar 16, 2008)

BW, What extensions can you open with Rhino?


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 16, 2008)

Zuesrekning, nice job on the modeing. I wish I knew how to do that. I have down loaded some demo programs but I never really get time to really learn anything before it expires.


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 16, 2008)

deere_x475guy  said:
			
		

> Zuesrekning, nice job on the modeing. I wish I knew how to do that. I have down loaded some demo programs but I never really get time to really learn anything before it expires.



Bob... give Alibre Express a try. The basic version is free. And for basic, it does a lot. It is also very very easy to learn.

Eric


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## BobWarfield (Mar 17, 2008)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Bob... give Alibre Express a try. The basic version is free. And for basic, it does a lot. It is also very very easy to learn.
> 
> Eric



Got it. Hated it. I made myself use it for about a month before giving up on it. I found Alibre extremely cumbersome and prefer Rhino3D by far.

zuesrekning, Rhino uses 3dm. It will also do IGES. There's a bunch of others, but it's probably easier for me to just draw it myself if you don't have either of those.

Best,

BW


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 17, 2008)

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> Got it. Hated it. I made myself use it for about a month before giving up on it. I found Alibre extremely cumbersome and prefer Rhino3D by far.
> 
> zuesrekning, Rhino uses 3dm. It will also do IGES. There's a bunch of others, but it's probably easier for me to just draw it myself if you don't have either of those.
> 
> ...



Wrong Bob, that message was for deere_x475guy...  I remember reading on your blog about your adventures with Alibre (I was going to send you an email about your cylinder's being faceted... 2 second fix). I have Rhino as well, I like Alibre much better. It was easier for me to learn. But, as with a lot of things in the machining world... there is more than one way to do something. What works well for one, may not work for someone else. ;D

Eric


----------



## deere_x475guy (Mar 17, 2008)

Ok Eric I am downloading the express version right now and will give it a try. Plan on me bugging you if I have questions..))))) J/K.


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 17, 2008)

Allright guys... Where are we at? Am I supposed to be building something?


----------



## joe d (Mar 17, 2008)

Two things.... 1. As mentioned a couple of pages ago, maybe change the 3-48 threaded bits to 4-40? (Got a fair number of 4-40 taps that I haven't broken yet) and 2, I agree with zeusrekning, shouldn't I be building something? ;D

Joe


----------



## Brass_Machine (Mar 17, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> Allright guys... Where are we at? Am I supposed to be building something?



Waiting on Tin...

But we have decided the engine, we have decided the time frame... now we need to hand out part assignments. So to give Tin a hand, I believe we should be vocal and volunteer or make a requests for the part we feel comfortable with.

So? Team... what part do you want to build? 

Eric


----------



## tattoomike68 (Mar 17, 2008)

I would like to make the flywheels, I can make those easy, maybe the piping and flange parts too.


----------



## BobWarfield (Mar 17, 2008)

tattoomike68  said:
			
		

> I would like to make the flywheels, I can make those easy, maybe the piping and flange parts too.



Way back in post #58 I volunteered for the flywheels.

BW


----------



## tattoomike68 (Mar 17, 2008)

I will make whatever but My mill sucks, I could use my brothers if I have to though.


----------



## Bernd (Mar 18, 2008)

Build member's,

I PMed Tin about the plans. I scanned the book and put the prints on my web site, but not in public view. You'll need the url to find them. I'm awaiting for word from Tin on weather he wants to use them. I read were somebody said that the pdf version were hard to read so I thought I'd help out with better scans of the plans. I don't know if this is breaking a copy right law or not.

Regards,
Bernd


----------



## tattoomike68 (Mar 18, 2008)

Sounds good Bernd , I dont care for the .pdf format myself. I dont think there will be any copyright issues, we are not selling them it sould be fine as long as they are public domain.

Let one of us know where to get the scans and we can e-mail copies to all the team.


----------



## BobWarfield (Mar 18, 2008)

FYI, I drew up a preliminary parts list:







Since Mike and I were both approaching the parts from the standpoint of wanting a lathe part, I have note what machines would be required for each part. I've also grouped some parts, e.g. cylinder and piston, so that they can be made by the same person.

We should probably try to close on what the parts list is pretty soon.

I've also started a page on my web site to document my progress:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCRevOpenCol.htm

Not much there yet.

Best,

BW


----------



## Jadecy (Mar 18, 2008)

Personally I'd like to be assigned a part. If someone gets a part they don't feel comfortable making we can do some trading amongst the group. I'll leave it to Tin to make the call.

Meanwhile I will sit here patiently and wait for the word. ;D


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 18, 2008)

I will make sure eveyone gets the link to the scanned files. 
I figure folks can pick there part(S)in order of sign up. 
That would be 
Brass_Machine
Bob_Warfield
Tattoo_Mike
Powder Keg
Jadecy
Zeusrekenining
Gilesm
Tin Falcon
Joe D 
Deer-x475guy

Here is the list of parts

We will need 12 ea of most parts*
Base 
Bearing (6)
Bearing  (6)
Piston /Cylinder/flange/Wrist pin (6)
piston /Cyninder flange/Wristpin (6)
Reversing valve ASSY
con rod
crank disk 
Crank shaft
Column 4 per engine(WE may want to make thhs a female 4-40 from 3/16)
Fly wheel 
Piping w flange
steam connector /screw
Notice I did put the bearing and the cylinder assembly twice that was on purpose.
Also Brass_machine is officialy co-captain.
Sorry I drug my feet a little have been a little under the weaterand busy . doing this post on lunch break @work.

BTW we have 10 builders so if we do 12 sets* of parts we will have one for show/musseum one for auction/raffle and one per team member
Tin
Bob Thanks for the list. I thought of a random drwing but i know some guys prefer mill work and others lathe. Also the reversing valve is a mill /lathe part.
Any questions comments let me know.


----------



## Powder keg (Mar 18, 2008)

I am excited on how things are coming here. I've been down with the flue for the last few days. I'd like to do the columns if possible. I think a internal would be better, but it makes no difference to me. Let me know)

Wes


----------



## Brass_Machine (Mar 18, 2008)

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> I am excited on how things are coming here. I've been down with the flue for the last few days. I'd like to do the columns if possible. I think a internal would be better, but it makes no difference to me. Let me know)
> 
> Wes



I think there are a couple of changes that shout be made in addition. Some of the thread sizes (as previously mentioned) and maybe the bearing blocks?? Making them out of brass is going to get expensive for whoever makes them. Maybe change the design to make them out of aluminum and bore the holes to take bronze bearings?

Thoughts?

Eric


----------



## tattoomike68 (Mar 18, 2008)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> I think there are a couple of changes that shout be made in addition. Some of the thread sizes (as previously mentioned) and maybe the bearing blocks?? Making them out of brass is going to get expensive for whoever makes them. Maybe change the design to make them out of aluminum and bore the holes to take bronze bearings?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Eric



Darn right, no need to go broke building them.

From what I have seen of the plans I would be better off building the...

con rod
crank disk 
Crank shaft

And assemble them.


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## gilessim (Mar 18, 2008)

Well, over here in Italy I do happen to have 3-48 taps and dies but they're the biggest ones I have, otherwise I need to get them sent over as I have BA or metric, as I said before I'd like to make the metal base and a wooden base but whatever my designated part is, I'd still like to make wooden bases, one as I mentioned to be inlaid with the HMEM logo in brass or wood!

Giles


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## Bernd (Mar 18, 2008)

tattoomike68  said:
			
		

> Let one of us know where to get the scans and we can e-mail copies to all the team.



I PMed you with the url's. I left them large. Three pages.

Bernd


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## Jadecy (Mar 18, 2008)

I checked speedy metals and enough brass for 6 bearings would be approx $45. I need to look at the drawings a little closer but I think I'd like to make 6 of the bearing blocks.


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## Powder keg (Mar 18, 2008)

If I get to build the columns what do you guys think of Bling? I could dress them up and polish them so they don't look so plain. I'm thinking of a taper from each end to the middle with a decoration turned there also? I think we should have a little freedom here? As long as it doesn't mess with critical tolerances. 

Later, Wes


----------



## tattoomike68 (Mar 18, 2008)

Jadecy  said:
			
		

> I checked speedy metals and enough brass for 6 bearings would be approx $45. I need to look at the drawings a little closer but I think I'd like to make 6 of the bearing blocks.



Dont blow your cash till we decide on aluminum or brass. No need to go hungry now. ;D
That thing looks like a tricky little devil, no doubt there is some work in that one.







			
				Powder keg  said:
			
		

> If I get to build the columns what do you guys think of Bling? I could dress them up and polish them so they don't look so plain. I'm thinking of a taper from each end to the middle with a decoration turned there also? I think we should have a little freedom here? As long as it doesn't mess with critical tolerances.
> 
> Later, Wes



yes make them look nice.


----------



## BobWarfield (Mar 18, 2008)

FWIW, I think I already have enough brass in stock to do the flywheels in brass if that's what we want. Let's make sure we get the right pieces to contrast well with one another.

Cheers,

BW


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## gilessim (Mar 18, 2008)

Wes, I agree with the blinging 'cause I want do do some too!

everyone else, it does look like the bearing block is the most complicated piece!, is it maybe asking too much for one person to make all 12?, I have a 1m x 3 x 2cm length of brass that I could send over if needed, but it's not quite wide enough, maybe the bearing could be made in 3 pieces?, silver soldered or bolted, anyway tomorrow I'll ask my metal guy here if he has some brass nearer size.

Giles


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## joe d (Mar 18, 2008)

I've got enough brass on hand to do 3 of the bearings, happy to use it up for this! Will do the valves too if nobody else wants them.

Joe


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## joe d (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi again, went in the shop and pulled the piece of brass out and measured it, I've actually got enough on hand for SIX. Dang, guess I just volunteered?

Joe


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## tattoomike68 (Mar 18, 2008)

gilessim  said:
			
		

> Wes, I agree with the blinging 'cause I want do do some too!
> 
> everyone else, it does look like the bearing block is the most complicated piece!, is it maybe asking too much for one person to make all 12?, I have a 1m x 3 x 2cm length of brass that I could send over if needed, but it's not quite wide enough, maybe the bearing could be made in 3 pieces?, silver soldered or bolted, anyway tomorrow I'll ask my metal guy here if he has some brass nearer size.
> 
> Giles



That part is a tricky devil and will cost more for the metal. I can see about making a couple. I would have to use my brothers mill. Its a 3hp 10"x50" Komet. I dont want to see one or Two members stuck with all the cost and work.

I will run by my brothers shop here in a few minutes and see about the price of some metal.


----------



## deere_x475guy (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok gang just let me know what is left to build. ;D


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 18, 2008)

Wow lots of info flying here,
The price of brass is abit scary can you imagine if we scaled this up?? a one ft piece of 1 1/4 x 3/8 bar from Mcmaster Carr is about $30 . I see two problems with aluminum though the block needs to be made in two pieces. do not think ali can be soldered very well . also not much room for a sleeve. Giles if you look at the list I have Two people making bearing blocks you are right we do not want one person making all twelve. Do you guys think the bearing blocks need to be divided three ways so three guys make 4 each. 

Here is what I see so far
Brass_Machine-Batting clean -up
Bob_Warfield  - Brass fly wheels
Tattoo_Mike
Powder Keg - Columns 4-40 internal thread w/ bling
Jadecy Bearing blocks??
Zeusrekenining - 6 cylinder/ piston/ cylinder support
Gilesm - bases- plus wood sub base make column holes for 4-40 CS
Tin Falcon -reversing valve
Joe D - 6 bearing blocks
Deer-x475guy


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 18, 2008)

I agree on the bling. I thought about doing bearing blocks if no one else wanted to. I could run them on the CNC. My only concern is the small tapped holes. That will be new to me. I've never tapped below a #10. How about I volunteer for piston / cylinder assembiles?
Tim


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## Powder keg (Mar 18, 2008)

The CNC mill I run at work is to old to tap parts on. But I do drill all the holes. It's no big deal to run a tap through them after all the mill work is done. Just a thought?

Wes


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 18, 2008)

I will wait until everyone has selected their parts and take what is left over ;D so I am up for anything.

Eric


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 18, 2008)

I thought about batting clean-up . But if we all wait and see ??? dibs on the reversing valve. 
Tin


----------



## Jadecy (Mar 18, 2008)

Tin,

I can do six of the bearings in brass. I don't see any reason to make them in two pieces. If someone else would really like to do them I'm flexible. Just tell me what to make and that is what I will make.


----------



## joe d (Mar 18, 2008)

Tin:

My brass stock is .5" so the bearings I'm doing will be one piece as well. One question: could somebody post the key to the lettered call-outs on the plans? I don't have a copy of the book (yet) so I've no idea what's what.

Thanks, Joe


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 18, 2008)

I can do the cylinder support...

Eric


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 19, 2008)

Joe D & jadecy :
  making in one piece would be fine. I kept looking at the print thinking the dog leg in the block would be a problem but one piece should be fine. Also it looks like mike or wes would be willing to help w the bbs if you guys want to split them 3 ways and do 4 each. Wre all want this to be fun and burden no one. 
Thank you gents for taking on the bearing blocks. 

The legend can be found  here 
Eric :
My original thought was include the support in the cylinder assembly cylinder/ piston/ cylinder supports. but you are co- captain and I am flexible. Do you feel up to doing six sets of the cylinder assembly??
 Let me know. 
Tin


----------



## Brass_Machine (Mar 19, 2008)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> ...
> Eric :
> My original thought was include the support in the cylinder assembly cylinder/ piston/ cylinder supports. but you are co- captain and I am flexible. Do you feel up to doing six sets of the cylinder assembly??
> Let me know.
> Tin



Good idea. Not sure my skills are up to it... I was thinking of the crankshaft/crank disk. I know Mike wanted to do something that was lathe heavy... maybe the piston/cylinder would be better suited for him?

Eric


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## Paolo (Mar 19, 2008)

:bow: :bow: :bow: TY Tin..it is precious...


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## Jadecy (Mar 19, 2008)

Has a new thread been started? I remember something about a seperate thread somewhere earlier. I just don't want to miss anything.

It looks like we've posted quite a bit for our captains to digest. I think I'll just observe for a while and wait for direction. ;D


Ok, I admit it. I totally missed the team build section. Disregard this message :big:


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## gilessim (Mar 19, 2008)

I wanted to say, does anyone have any preferences for metal for the base? ie. brass or aluminum?, I have both but my brass is 6mm ,0.35mm under 1/4", I can always get some more brass from a friend (probably free!)but it would be 7 or 8 mm ,personally I think brass would be better and I have no problems taking it down to 1/4", any thoughts??, considering that there is going to be a wooden sub-base,

Giles


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 19, 2008)

Giles as long as you put the holes in the right place and the holes are not too close to the edge a little flexibility is in order. IMHO either 6 or 7 mm would work fine . I do not think anyone will complain about a brass base if that is what you want to do. It looks like we are ending up with an all brass or nearly all brass engine. 
Convention dictates tolerance on fractional measurements to be +- 1/64 or approx +- .015. . but I have made engine parts 1/4" to 1/2 " inch big on non critical dimensions with no adverse effects. 
Also note I changed the holes marked to tap 3-48 to be 4-40 through holes countersunk on the bottom of the base. 
Tin


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## tattoomike68 (Mar 19, 2008)

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Good idea. Not sure my skills are up to it... I was thinking of the crankshaft/crank disk. I know Mike wanted to do something that was lathe heavy... maybe the piston/cylinder would be better suited for him?
> 
> Eric



Anything round is cool with me. At my brothers shop they are getting busy but im sure they will let me use a mill after hours


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 19, 2008)

Mike I have the work assignments and a list of unassigned parts in a sticky post titled TB assignments. Let me know what you want to do and I will add it to/update the list. 

here is a list of the unassigned parts:
Piston /Cylinder/flange/Wrist pin (6)

con rod
crank disk
Crank shaft


Piping w flange
steam connector /screws
Stud for reversing valve. Print shows 3-48

We have three builders not commited to parts 
You(TatooMike68)
Brass_Machine
Deerx475 guy


Respectfully 
tin


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## tattoomike68 (Mar 19, 2008)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Mike I have the work assignments and a list of unassigned parts in a sticky post titled TB assignments. Let me know what you want to do and I will add it to/update the list.
> 
> here is a list of the unassigned parts:
> Piston /Cylinder/flange/Wrist pin (6)
> ...



I would like to do 

crank disk
Crank shaft

and assembly of the crank.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 19, 2008)

Mike you got it
Tin


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## zeusrekning (Mar 19, 2008)

Who is going to handle assembly or will we assemble our own?
Tim


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 19, 2008)

Each member will assemble there own the show engine and auction /raffle engine will be assembled by someone on the team probably team captains. 
Tin


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 19, 2008)

Jim I can do the steam connector /screws, and also help with any clean up there might be.


----------



## Jadecy (Mar 19, 2008)

I will order the brass for the bearings I'm making tomorrow. It should be here by mid next week at the latest. At that point I will start making parts. I'll try to take pictures each step of the way.


----------



## tattoomike68 (Mar 19, 2008)

Ok here are the parts I will make.












Are you guys sure you want that crank screw made from brass?


----------



## joe d (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi

Question: are we changing the reversing valve stud to 4-40 also, or staying with the 3-48? (I've got exactly one 3-48 tap, so I'm pretty well guaranteed to bust it, life's like that!)

Joe


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 20, 2008)

tattoomike68  said:
			
		

> I would like to do
> 
> crank disk
> Crank shaft
> ...


Mike
This was posted on the part assignment thread. 

Also I have deere_x475 guy down for the cranks screws

 I would do a later design of it and make it from 12L14 hex stock this eliminates the need to machine the slot. 

Joe 
Lets change the stud to 4-40

Tin


----------



## Jadecy (Mar 20, 2008)

Tin,

Can you please add the reversing valve stud change to your "changes" post is that is what we want. 

Thanks!

As I read the current changes that will be the only change to the bearing thread sizes.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 21, 2008)

looks like thing are coming together pretty well. there are still a few leftover parts to divy up. 
Bob W
 do you think you could handle the con rods? The fly wheels are pretty straight forward. 

we need to finalize changes . So if you see any needed or wanted changes that are not posted let me know. 
Tin


----------



## BobWarfield (Mar 21, 2008)

Sure, put me down for the con rods. They'll be a little more interesting than the flywheels. I should about have gotten them right by the time I've made 12, so the second 12 really would be right, LOL!

Best,

BW


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 21, 2008)

Tin and or Eric,

I was checking to see who else was building cylinders and noticed wrist pins weren't beside my name. I am supposed to do these also ,correct? 



Brass_Machine- 6 sets Piston /Cylinder/flange/Wrist pin (6)
Zeusrekenining - 6 cylinder/ piston/ cylinder support

Tim


----------



## Brass_Machine (Mar 21, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> Tin and or Eric,
> 
> I was checking to see who else was building cylinders and noticed wrist pins weren't beside my name. I am supposed to do these also ,correct?
> 
> ...



Hey Tim,

Wrist pins are yours too. I will fix that.

Eric


----------



## tattoomike68 (Mar 21, 2008)

tattoomike68  said:
			
		

> Ok here are the parts I will make.



here I put the right pictures up now.

I will do the whole crank and screw.


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 21, 2008)

Bob W: Thanks for taking on the con rods as well as the flywheels I will note the change on the master list. 

Tim: good catch on the wrist pin omittion.

Mike: we already assigned the screws to deere_x475guy but I have a pm out to him asking if he is willing to do the piping and flange instead. 

It looks like we are just about all on the same page and building can start by next weekend. 
Tin Falcon


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 21, 2008)

Who is making the piping? 

I just came from the hobby shop and noticed the have a really good selection of small copper and brass tube. They did have 1/8" od copper tube. I have 1/4" x 1" copper bar. If the person making the piping would like to use copper I can send a piece of copper. That offer goes to anyone else also. If you are willing to whittle your part out of 1/4"x1" I think mixing up the colors of material will be nice. PM me if interested.
Tim


----------



## Powder keg (Mar 21, 2008)

I think that different color metals look nice also. I have the column material coming. I'm also going to supply te fasteners for the top of the column's. I found some 4-40 stainless hex head bolts that will look nice. Should I get some washers? The local hardware store had some little bronze lock washers that would look great here. I'll see if they still have any. 

Later, Wes


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 21, 2008)

Are we using flat head screws for bolting the cylinder support to the columns? If so can someone pm me the actual head diameter.
Tim


----------



## Powder keg (Mar 21, 2008)

I found some stainless hex head screws Here I thought they might look better? The head is 3/16" across the flats. Let me know and I'll supply these)

Wes


----------



## deere_x475guy (Mar 21, 2008)

I will be building these parts:
















Jim, what size hex do you think I should order from McMaster Carr for the steam connector? I will need to order the 1/8" copper piping and material for the flange also.


----------



## deere_x475guy (Mar 21, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> Who is making the piping?
> 
> I just came from the hobby shop and noticed the have a really good selection of small copper and brass tube. They did have 1/8" od copper tube. I have 1/4" x 1" copper bar. If the person making the piping would like to use copper I can send a piece of copper. That offer goes to anyone else also. If you are willing to whittle your part out of 1/4"x1" I think mixing up the colors of material will be nice. PM me if interested.
> Tim



I didn't see you post when I replied. Do you have enough to make all 12? Let me know how much and I can send a check off. PM me or email. (Tim were you having a problem getting something through my email?). Tim if you have a problem getting email to me let me know via a pm here.

Bob


----------



## joe d (Mar 21, 2008)

I've got some 2-56 x 3/8 stainless hex heads (0.123" across the flats) from micro fasteners that would do just fine for fastening the pipe flange to the bearing... more than willing to supply enough for all of them. Easy enough to trim them a little shorter if required.

Joe


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 21, 2008)

Mike : go ahead and make the c/s screws.

Tim: Bob Abbot is doing the Piping.

Wes: sounds Good!!

Tim: Wes will be supplying s/s hex head bolts for that. 

Bob A: You got it with the pics looks good.Thanks for taking on the pipe and flange.
Joe d sounds good. 



> Jim, what size hex do you think I should order from McMaster Carr for the steam connector?


1/4 hex would probably look better but IIRC 3/16 is about $6 for 6 ft and 1/4 is $10 here is the kind of fitting I make.this is a 1/4 barb fitting made from 1/4 hex stock. I will let you decide what size to buy either will work. 





So it looks like the only part left is the Reversing valve stud. I can take care of that. I ill also pick up a dozen 4-40 thumb nuts to hold the reversing valve on . I have a 10 -32 thumb nut pictured just for reference. 

Bob A: 
If you want you can order 3/16 round and use Elmers design or follow the photo and make something that looks like mine with a 3/16 barb and a 4-40 thread. 

Thank you all who are pitching in with the nuts and bolts. 
Tin Falcon


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 21, 2008)

I asked Eric what he thought about a more cosmetic cylinder since he and I are both doing cylinders. He said post my idea and we could vote. I think the original is a little to plain. If anyone has any ideas for something better let me know and I'll draw it. 
Also notice the cylinder support, I changed it also. It want hurt my feelings one bit if we stay with the original design so be honest. I'm an IC engine guy so I really like fins  My wife said she like the original better till she found out the finned one was mine. :'(

Tim


----------



## joe d (Mar 21, 2008)

I like fins... especially since it's not me cutting them! (Never tried that yet). Is there someplace we can stick a rhinestone for Marv? :big:


----------



## Powder keg (Mar 21, 2008)

I like the fins and the support) looks really classy.

Wes


----------



## gilessim (Mar 22, 2008)

Tim and everyone, I like the fins also and wondered about extending the base a little all round, just enough to put a stepped 1/4 round bead?(I have little 3mm r. cutter for it), also is brass ok? or do we want a contrast with ali, I have both.

Giles


----------



## Tin Falcon (Mar 22, 2008)

giles: The bead molding effect would be nice. A brass engine with a little copper and steel accents looks very rick it almost sound like we are going for a bit of a Victorian feel. 

Tim I like the clean look of the cylinder as is but either way works. If the majority of the team wants fins and you and Eric want to cut all those grooves go for it. Seems like all those fins adds a lot of work . One thing that I do not want to see here is someone starting a real fancy part and then deciding that making twelve like that is too much work. In all fairness plain or fancy the parts you make need to be the same. I know we all want to do our best work and make this look great but lets not get dreamy to the point of biting off more than we can chew. I want this to be a fun for all project. 
TF


----------



## zeusrekning (Mar 24, 2008)

So who has started building? I will start hopefully start next weekend (going camping this weekend :big. I have the material I need other than 1/16" dia drill rod. I still have to learn to silver solder. Good luck everyone! 
P.S. 
Make sure to take pics.


----------



## Powder keg (Mar 24, 2008)

I have the brass ordered. I'm going to get one of those tap guide tingies. I have like 96, 4-40 holes to tap. 

Later, Wes


----------



## Jadecy (Mar 24, 2008)

According to the tracking info I should have my brass tomorrow an my taps on wednesday. I hope to get some done this week but I have a car to piece back together first...that will take at least one of my evenings.


----------



## deere_x475guy (Mar 25, 2008)

I am at the McMaster Carr site right now looking to order the 1/16" plate for the tubing. will this stuff work?

Alloy 260


----------



## deere_x475guy (Mar 26, 2008)

Update, I just finished my McMaster-Carr order.

Alloy 360 Free-machining Brass Rectangle 1/8" Thick, 1/4" Width, 6 Length
Copper Tubing 1/8" Od, .061" Id, .032" Wall, 6 Length
Alloy 360 Free-machining Brass Hexagonal Bar 1/4" Hex Size, 6 Length

Tin I am going to give your method a go for the steam connector.)


----------



## joe d (Mar 26, 2008)

Progress report:

Got 6 blanks cut out for bearings. Will start some actual machining this week-end.
As the kids say, WAHOO!

Jadecy: PM me your mailing address sometime, and I will send you the SS hex head screws for the pipe flanges, then you can stick 'em in their spots before sending your parts off to their respective new homes... I'm going to cut them down to 1/4", drill & tap accordingly.

Joe


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## gilessim (Mar 28, 2008)

Well I've got the brass bases cut to length (a start!),I have to go away for work for a week or so but I'll be on the case as soon as I get back, BTW should I send one big package to one of you from here in Italy? as the post is not so reliable, I don't mind paying the postage to whoever has to send the bits on from there over the pond, anyway I'll check with TNT or DHL there are both near me, you can PM me with addresses etc.

Giles


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 28, 2008)

gilessim  said:
			
		

> Well I've got the brass bases cut to length (a start!),I have to go away for work for a week or so but I'll be on the case as soon as I get back, BTW should I send one big package to one of you from here in Italy? as the post is not so reliable, I don't mind paying the postage to whoever has to send the bits on from there over the pond, anyway I'll check with TNT or DHL there are both near me, you can PM me with addresses etc.
> 
> Giles



I was actually thinking the same thing Giles. You can either send it to me or Tin... then we can ship from there. OFC, I think the same will work the other way... I (or Tin) can compile your share and send it all in one package to you.

Eric


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## Jadecy (Mar 28, 2008)

TattooMike68 - 

According to the build list you are making the crank. What are you using as stock? Are you starting with a piece of drill rod or already sized stock or are you turning down from a larger diameter stock?

I'm making 6 of the bearing blocks and according to the plans a good fit is needed for the crank bore. I'm going to use a reamer and get it as close as possible to what you are making. If you are using something pre-sized like drill rod I should be able to get really close.

Thanks!


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## tattoomike68 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jadecy  said:
			
		

> TattooMike68 -
> 
> According to the build list you are making the crank. What are you using as stock? Are you starting with a piece of drill rod or already sized stock or are you turning down from a larger diameter stock?
> 
> ...



the stock I have is .1870 just .0005 under 3/16" I will double cheak that in a little bit, I left the stock in the back seat of the car and the woman is at the store. . I thought it was 4140 tgp but its 1018 cr.


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 28, 2008)

My McMaster-Carr order arrived today but I will be working from home for our parent company in the UK so I probably won't get started this weekend.

Looks like the project is progressing...))


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 28, 2008)

Bob:
the steam fittings should look great made from 1/4 hex stock . If you need any help or pointers on how to set up the or steps on the fittings let me know. I can give a quick run down. 

Tin Falcon


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 28, 2008)

Tim, thanks I will probably bug you once I get to those. I just got a phone call and the company I work for is pretty sure they are shipping me off to the UK for at least a week. Regardless I will still have time in the 3 months to get my parts done.


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## Jadecy (Mar 28, 2008)

tattoomike68  said:
			
		

> the stock I have is .1870 just .0005 under 3/16" I will double cheak that in a little bit, I left the stock in the back seat of the car and the woman is at the store. . I thought it was 4140 tgp but its 1018 cr.



Sounds good. Please mic it and give me the diameter when you get a chance.


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## Jadecy (Mar 28, 2008)

I made 6 brass blocks tonight ;D. Hopefully I'll get to do some more this weekend. Are we going to have a seperate progress picture thread? I took a few pictures and will try to keep a record of each step.


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 28, 2008)

Jadecy  said:
			
		

> I made 6 brass blocks tonight ;D. Hopefully I'll get to do some more this weekend. Are we going to have a seperate progress picture thread? I took a few pictures and will try to keep a record of each step.



Jadecy... go ahead and start a new thread on your progress.

Eric


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## tattoomike68 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jadecy  said:
			
		

> Sounds good. Please mic it and give me the diameter when you get a chance.



Its in the .1870" - .1865" range I brought my Mitatoyo mics inside for the winter and cant find them  I do have a cheapy thats OK but hard to trust after using the good stuff.


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 30, 2008)

Tin I have the pipe plates completed and am going to make the bending die and follow plate so I can bend the pipe. I think it's best if I bend the pipe and cut it long for both ends and the builder does the soldering for final fit up. The plans say to do this and what I am concerned about is not getting a perfect length and have it to short on both ends. What do you and everyone else think about doing it this way?


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 30, 2008)

Bob:
It makes a little more work for assembly but it is IMHO the best way to go. I would not want you to go to all that work and have them all too short. good thinking!!(I know you just want to get out of the silver soldering LOL) 
Tin 
AKA 
Jim


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 30, 2008)

HAHA...I knew I couldn't fool you..


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## Powder keg (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm still waiting for my material
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hopefully it'll be here soon, 

Wes


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## Jadecy (Mar 31, 2008)

I got a good start on my six bearing blocks. I will try to post some pictures tonight. The base mount holes are drilled and tapped, the crank hole is drilled and reamed, and all the front holes are drilled and the center hole is tapped for the valve post.

I got to use my DRO SDM (Subdatum) feature again. I love that feature now that I learned how to use it.

I was hoping to get more done tonight but several items I ordered are back ordered (they didn't tell me last week ) so I went ahead and ordered them from McMaster Carr (ie. #4-40 bottoming tap, #2-56 tap, and some good drill bits for the tap holes). I should have thos tomorrow. McMaster Carr usually takes 1 day to get stuff to me.

I had another bad experience with my TiN coated bits from Horrible Freight! I was drilling a test hole in a scrap piece of brass when the 1/16" bit shattered into several pieces. I wasn't forcing the bit or anything extraordinary. I've had this happen with several of the other bits in this set before. I grabbed my el-cheapo HSS 1/16 bit and drilled the 1/16" holes in the test piece and the bearing blocks with no problem. You think I would learn from my experience with another bit from the same set on a different project! :


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## Powder keg (Mar 31, 2008)

Yahoo!!! My metal arrived) Now I can start makin chips)

Wes


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## deere_x475guy (Mar 31, 2008)

Jadecy  said:
			
		

> I got to use my DRO SDM (Subdatum) feature again. I love that feature now that I learned how to use it.



I use that feature quit a bit and it sure is a time saver both in lessening mistakes and eliminating having to repeatidly reentering coordinates.

This evening I made another tangential form tool for the 1/8" die I need to bend the pipe. If all goes well I will have the pipe all bent and cut.))....making progress ;D


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## joe d (Mar 31, 2008)

Decided to do the easy but boring bit first: just finished cutting down 28 2-56 machine screws from 3/8" ... Jadecy: am putting 14 in the mail to you tomorrow morning, this leaves you with 2 to lose on the shop floor! (I'll probably lose 2, so you should too... ;D)

Cheers, Joe


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## Brass_Machine (Mar 31, 2008)

Jadecy  said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> I got to use my DRO SDM (Subdatum) feature again. I love that feature now that I learned how to use it.
> ...



Could you start another thread telling me what this is and how to use it??

Eric


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## deere_x475guy (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi Eric, I won't be in the shop this evening to take pics but I think I can explain why it's used and how to use it on my DRO. Many Dros' have this feature and some of them call it "presets" instead of "SDM". After I get some dinner I will create a post in Tip and Tricks area.


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## Powder keg (Apr 1, 2008)

I have the pillars redrawn to make them pretty. I'll make a form tool and a couple other things so I can make them fairly easy. An older gentleman gave me some good tips on these. I think his ideas will work great! I'll post the info on my form tool for sure)

Later, Wes


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## deere_x475guy (Apr 1, 2008)

Hey Wes looking forward to the pics. And I just wonder who that "older gentleman" could be.)


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## Powder keg (Apr 1, 2008)

I'll print the drawing and scan it into my puter. The old guy is a guy that works for me. He's about to retire again. (third time)

Wes


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## zeusrekning (Apr 1, 2008)

I ordered my drill rod for the wrist pins today. It is .0625" I also ordered a .0635 reamer for the wrist pin hole in the piston. Should this be okay?
Tim


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## BobWarfield (Apr 1, 2008)

I got looking at how small these parts really are and decided it was time to quit procrastinating: I need to get my 5C collet chuck mounted on the lathe before I go any further. 

Yes, I could make the flywheels easily without it, but that connecting rod needs a little better workholding than my grungy 3-jaw that came with the lathe. I suspect it'll be handy since I already have the 5c collet fixtures for the mill anyway.

So, I'm going to get that baby mounted first. Will post a small thread on the process when I get 'er done.

Best,

BW


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## Jadecy (Apr 2, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> I ordered my drill rod for the wrist pins today. It is .0625" I also ordered a .0635 reamer for the wrist pin hole in the piston. Should this be okay?
> Tim



You'll have to do a test hole to see how the fit turns out. When using a chucking reamer i typically use one that is .001 undersize. It is probably because my reamers are cheap and they have a little runout but the hole usually comes out right on the money. A hand reamer is a different story so depending on which you are doing and the quality of the reamer it may be fine. No way to tell for sure until you try it. I would grab a piece of scrap and do a test.


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## Jadecy (Apr 2, 2008)

I drilled and tapped the hole in the back of six bearing blocks last night. I just have to do the holes in the top and do the finish machining to finish them. If this go as planned I should have them done by mid next week. I'll get to try out my new buffing wheel too so I can make the brass nice and shiny 

I got some black oxide drill bits and good taps including bottoming taps from McMaster Carr for this project and I can't believe what a difference they make. I had been scraping by on my cheap HF drill bits but after using these I feel I now need ;D a full set of good drill bits and taps. The difference is night and day!


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## zeusrekning (Apr 2, 2008)

Who is making up the inspection documentation sheets? Do we need to provide material certs. and a Manufacturing Process Plan?


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## rake60 (Apr 2, 2008)

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> Who is making up the inspection documentation sheets? Do we need to provide material certs. and a Manufacturing Process Plan?



Oh YES!
Please keep in mind:

*"A2. ISO 9001:2000, MIL-I-45208, AS9100, or Equivalent as applicable. 

The supplier on this order must have an Quality System, conforming to 
ISO 9001:2000, MIL-I-45208, AS9100 or Equivalent. All quality 
documents must be maintained for a period of 10 years and be available 
for review within one business day."*

...OK I'll go play somewhere else now...  

I am *totally* enjoying watching this whole thing come together!

*Great Team Work Guys!!!*

Rick


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## Powder keg (Apr 2, 2008)

Started on one of my tools tonight) I'll start a new topic and post a couple pictures.

Wes


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## Tin Falcon (Apr 5, 2008)

Fellow team members I am very pleased and impresses with what i am seeing so far keep up the good work!!!
Tin


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## Powder keg (Apr 6, 2008)

I second what Tin said! Great work guys! These will be fun little engines. 

Wes


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