# Ignore this topic



## Jack

In the past I have built a couple of Jerry Howell's Sterling Engines and a small upright steam engine, now the Poppin is going to be my next project. Yes these small engines are addictive. Is there a substitute for cast iron for the clyinder? I don't know where to get a small piece of cast that isn't so hard that it can machined. This is the last engine that I have finished recently







Oh, I have a 9x20 lathe and a 6x26 knee mill

Jack in St. Louis


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## Tin Falcon

Hmm the thought of making spares has never occurred  to me. we have had to make a couple of replacements for parts that broke. I have made extras a couple of times for future engines in other words make several fly wheels or crank disks while the set up and material are there. then when making a similar engine you have a couple fewer parts to make. 
Tin


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## Jack

I built this last year, it was a challenge to make but watching it run while sitting on cup of hot coffee makes it all worthwhile. These little projects are
cerainly addictive.


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## Jack

I am a retired printer who started building things a few years ago when I was given an old lathe (1885 Barnes) if I knew then what I know now I would passed and ran away fast, but NO i took it home and now I have a Harbour Frieght, 9x20 lathe, 6x26 Grizzly knee mill, 4x6 crappy saw and a bunch of tooling, enough to make several model sterlings, a couple of steam engines, yes, it's an addiction not a hobby. I recently received a new Grizzly mill and for Father's Day my kids got me a 3 axis DRO. I just love the bolt hole pattern feature.






That's my latest steam engine sitting on the mill table, the Coke can is for size reference only, I would never leave a soda can on the mill while working.
Jack in St. Louis


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## lugnut

Jack are you aware of Enco's free shipping on orders of $50.00 or more and under 85 lbs.  You can use the July free shipping code WBJY7 on your order and get free shipping.   I use it all the time and saves a bunch!  They change the code each month.
Mel


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## gt2ride

Just joined the group.  I have been making model for 1 1/2 years. I have completed nine so far.  I am working on the mine eng. that is showen on this web site.  I have been a woodworker for 40 years and was looking for a new past time when I found eng making.


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## Jack

I just placed an order with ENCO and I did use the Free Shipping Code that you gave me, Thanks for the Heads Up by saving on the shipping I was able to buy a few more goodies, We can't have enough tooling Can We?  :lol: 

Thanks;

Jack in St. Louis


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## Jack

I have the red version from Horrible freight, I have had it for about 3 years now so I have most of the bugs out of it by now.

I have been able to make some prety nice little engines and things, plus a whole of chips with it.






Jack in St. Louis


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## Jack

I started the other day with some scraps from under the bench, ordered some cast iron from Enco last night after several hours of turning big pieces of metal in to little pieces, I have this:
















I think we should all build one of these as a homework assignment and post them here.

I'm having fun making a mess on the floor. Don't worry about the four little holes, I put in the radius unstead of diameter on the DRO bolt hole circle thingy. :lol:


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## lugnut

Wareagle, I had to chuckle a little when I read your post on shop lighting.  You are correct about having equipment and lighting on separate breakers.  What I thought was funny is that if it's dark outside---- I'm normally in bed .  But then youre probably a lot younger for sure more dedicated to your hobby.
The thing that almost got me in my shop was my drill press.  12" piece of flat bar, drilling a 1/2 hole about inch from the end, not secured in a vise, caught and took out the front of my shirt, big scrap on the big end of my belly!  I looked down hoping not to see my guts spilling out.   Now I use a vise for all drilling.   
Mel


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## Jack

This is "Miser" Sterling I purchased the plans from Jerry Howell in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

http://www.jerry-howell.com/

This should take you to his website, his plans are very clear, well drawn and very easy to follow. They are very reasonably priced, I have built 2 of his engines and get a lot of compliments on his designs.


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## Jack

This is another one of my small Sterlings that I recently finished, it took me about 4 months to make but I took my time and I am very happy with the final results.


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## lugnut

Mr. Rhoades, that is just what I've been looking for.  I done a little research and came up with a artical that I think is the same engine @ this web site. http://www.geocities.com/~rrice2/my_engines/farmengn/hayseed.htm
It shows a lot of how it runs.  Is it the same engine? I think I also found the place to order the back issues of the magazine with the plans.  The magazine is out of business except for selling back issues.  Are the plans detailed enough for a low skilled person like me to work from?
Thanks for any info you might be willing to share.
Mel


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## Philjoe5

I'm using a Grizzly 9x20 lathe with a modified 4 bolt compound clamp.  I was able to measure the taper as roughly 0.0005" over the cylinder length of 2.625".  I estimated it by making a 2 pistons that would just fit in either end.  I think the gibs are adjusted properly, but for this amount of taper maybe they need to be really snugged up?


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## Philjoe5

I did mean five ten thousandths of an inch, 0.0005".  I drill up to 0.75", then switch to an indexable boring bar to finish at 1.125".  

I agree about the capabilities of this bench lathe.  I just finished J. Early's version of the 4 bolt compound clamp described on the yahoo 9x20 forum and it made a huge difference in reducing chatter when parting and taking heavy cuts.  My next modification will be to the toolpost holder.


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## lugnut

Chuck, its obvious that you are way ahead of me and probably most of the rest of us, Please share some of your knowledge with us.  Any little trick and short cut will be welcomed.  We  need  encouragement, wisdom, and drawings, oh and did  I mention  HELP
Mel


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## Jack

I made my living as a printer for about 38 years and I always have been fixing and building things. I have restored player pianos, flew RC planes, and restored antique cars mostly model T's and model A FORD's. When I retired a few years ago I wanted something to do so I fixed up and old lathe so that I would have something to play with. Well, it lead to a 9x20 lathe, mini-mill, 4x6 band saw, a mig welder, A/O torch oufit and I started playing in the basement. About 18 months ago my wife came down with Lou Gehrigs Disease so I had to stop playing and take care of her, well she lost her battle with the disease this past February so in order to keep busy I pretty much spend most days and nights in my little shop which now has grown to half of the basement. I just bought a new Grizzly 6x26 knee mill with DRO and I love it. I will probaly replace the H-F 9x20 lathe with something bigger but I don't know which lathe yet. I love showing off my work to anybody that will look at it, watching a sterling running on top of a cup of coffee makes one feel good.


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## jagwinn

The practice you just mentioned is useful to cut an oval hammer handle, and was featured in a book "Things to Make in Your Home Shop", 1924.
Thinking outside the box. I like it.


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## lugnut

I made a fixture like your talking about to cut worm gears.  I've been looking for the article that I used for the plans and can't find it.  I will look some more tomorrow.  any ways I'm posting some photos the parts and pieces and a action shot. I used a 1/2 ' X 12 tap to start the cutting process and then used the Hob I made to finish the gear,  The hob is made from 1/2X 12 pitch acme rod. I never got around to harden it, only used it on aluminum. It works real well.
Mel


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## lugnut

Here is the artical on making the worm gear cuttiing fixture and how its can be done.
Have fun
Mel
http://www.bedair.org/Worm/Worm4.html


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## Jack

After a few more days of work it's starting to look like an engine.


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## Jack

Yes!  Those are 2-56 Hex Head Bolts. I think that they look a lot better than socket head cap screws or God Forbid, Philps head screws I hate those but thats all that hardware stores around here have.

I bought a pckage of 100 2-56 stainless steel hex head (1/8") 1 inch long (I can always cut a little off) for $7.50 and 50 4-40 stainless steel hex head (3/16") 1 inch long for $5.80 from

http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/MSCHBS.cfm

They are in New Jersy but they mailed them to me in about 4 days, They are a very easy company to deal with and they have other stuff as well.   :roll:


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## Hal

ED 

I have just taken ownership of a FEXAC milling machine made in Spain.

It was cheap, local and delivered. 

One of the reason it was cheap was that one of the power feed wasn't working. The story was that a cone shaped clutch was worn out.

When I got to looking at the parts the cone shaped clutch didn't seem worn, nor was the metal cone discolored from heat.

But the thrust bearing was stuck. I cleaned it up and it freed up but is still very rough and looked like it has a spot or two that has set in a water based coolant for a extended period of time.

The thrust bearing(looks similar to a throwout clutch bearing on a manual transmission) is of the enclosed, cage, ball bearing type.

I.D. is 1.377 -1.378
O.D. is 2.110 - 2.118 (the shield is not truly round)
Thickness is .500 - .512 "                                   "

Ed do you know of a source for the bearing I need?

Of coarse there are no #'s  :evil: 

Hal


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## Tin Falcon

I noticed if I sign in and browse then try to post I have to sign in a second time. If i just browse then try to post it will ask for a sign in then I just sign in once.
Tin


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## Canyonman

Well, where to start?

I was one of those "take everything apart" type kids. During High School I became interested in Ham Radio, Cars, and those good old .049 Cox engined planes.

I enlisted in the Air Force in 1976 and served my first tour as a Medic. Being the classic over-achiever I earned ER and ICU special duty assignments.

When it came time to re-enlist, I signed back up as a Armorer/Instructor. And again I soaked up all I could find. Well this strange combination of experience found me in Special Ops, where I "Ate it Up" for 12 years.

I got hurt in a Helo Jump and could no longer "keep up" so they sent me to England to shut down RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge.

I returned to the States and ran a small Range for awhile, then retired.

I then hired on making explosive mixtures for Aerial Display Fireworks. While it is fun to "shoot a show" it gets old fast. If people knew the work and regulations involved, they would understand why a 4th of July show costs so much.

So I used my VA Benefits and got my A & P license. Went back to the AF as a Civilian Contractor Crew Chief. Being Union we have the lowest wages of any Aircraft Mech. around. So if I wanted a new gun, I followed Johny Cash and built it "one piece at a time." Which lead me to the Lathes, Mills, Shapers etc.

I can run the machines but I actually enjoy restoring the Machines more! Reviving an old machine has a satisfaction of it's own. I do tire at times of hunting down parts, making the parts, making do with what I have. 

I ran across this site, and I do enjoy these little engines, although I do have a Fairbanks-Morse 52. I wanted a Hit & Miss engine, and that's what I thought I had, but it is a throttle governed engine. Oh well.

The current project is a 13" South Bend with a 7 foot bed. Then I believe an engine is going to sneak up the "List" and bump one of the machines out. Just for some relaxation.

Glad to meet you all.


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## Jack

I've been busy in the shop today, here are some more parts for the latest little project of mine.






Tomorrow I will try to make some of the little parts.


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## Jack

I have made more parts to the flame Licker but my camera  battery is dead, so the photos will have to wait for a day or so.

But I do have a couple questions....

Does the spring hold the valve open and does the cam follower close it? or is the other way around?

Can the cam follower be a small ball bearing or is that over kill?

Does the cylinder head have the counter sunk 1/4" hole have the countersunk on the outside or inside?

Does anyone have plans that haven't been copied a zillion times, I have trouble reading some of the deminsions, or is the PDF version the best there is?

I used a .002 feeler gauge strip for the valve, does that sound right?


I still have to make the connecting rod and the little arm that hooks on the valve rod and cam follower. It  should take me another week or so.

You have to remember that I am all alone here and I don't punch a clock. Sometimes I work until 2 am and sometimes I don't work in the shop at all.


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## Tin Falcon

Alex: 
    the simplest way to build a model that is dimensioned in inches is to make it about 20 percent larger. Just for the sake of argument make 1 inch = 32 mm. so half inch will be 16mm etc. this is not a true conversion but it is an easy way to convert a print to metric for a small model you are just building for fun.  I am not sure if I answered your question but this is the easiest way I know of to make a print fit metric standards. 
Hope this helps you. 
Tin


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## lugnut

We had a little tree frog that lived in our house all winter.  We would go out and find ants and He loved small earth worms, would jump into your hand to get them.   After we let him go, we found little frog pop behind one of the pictures in the room where he stayed.  He like to hang out in our Rubber tree plant.  His name was Fred and we miss him.
Mel


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## lugnut

Thanks Ralph.  That site is not the friendliest one Ive looked at.  They do have a lot of stuff.  But I got the impression that they would rather deal with bigger accounts.  Then it might be my lack of savvy.  
Thanks 
Mel


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## Jack

My day isn't complete unless I break at least one tap or center drill. Why don't I quit 15 seconds before I break something after spending hours of set-up or metal removal, NO!!!! I keep working until I snap off a 2-56  or 4-40 tap. I think that I could screw up a 1/2-13 tap if I machined a stick of butter to look like a model engine part. :cry:   :cry:


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## lugnut

Thanks guys. I ordered some small gears from http://www.smallparts.com/
They have a pretty good selection of gears.
Mel


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## Jack

If I where needing Taps and Dies in the small sizes I wouldn't buy a set. You will never use most of them. If you live in a good size city I would find a tool or machine shop supply dealer and buy a good 2-56 tap and die or what ever size the plans call for on whatever your building, in fact I buy the taps 2 at a time (they do break). Don't waste your money on cheap poorly made tooling like these little items, find a tool dealer go there, tell them what your doing. Tapping in a through hole in steel takes a different tap then aluminum in a blind hole. In st. louis the dealer that I go to is just as cheap as ENCO or any other so unless your out in the middle of nowhere find a local dealer and go there and ask a lot of questions and show them what you make. I do  Most dealers know what they sell and are only too happy to help and then sell you what you need, and they want you to come back.  :lol:


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## jagwinn

1980 Master Packaging repairman for the Pillsbury Mills Co., Springfield, Illinois
1988 Household department Machine Repairman, Sterling Drug - Lehn & Fink plant, Lincoln, Illinois
1989 Specialised Air, Airframe journyman, Hulcher Airport, Virden, Illinois
(While still working at Sterling) Licensed pilot.
1990 AutoCAD Draftsman, American College of Technology, Bloomington, Illinois
1993 Associate, Mitsubishi Motor Manufacturing, Normal, Illinois
2004 AutoCAD draftsman, Dynamic Controls, Peoria, Illinois
2006 to present (back to machine repair) DEL Laboratories, Rocky Point, North Carolina.
Sears Craftsman 12" lathe.


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## Tin Falcon

Guys: Not exactly shop related but is certainly applied to safety when alone. 
I will offer a quote from a friend of the family. A young lady college student doing summer intern work in Jamaica.
" You have not lived, until you have experienced fire ants in your toilet paper!!"

Always think safety
Tin


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## lugnut

My second most favorite hobby next to my little shop is going to Garage or Yard sales I picked up a cigar box full of taps and dies last week for $5.  All made in the USA and in good shape.  Smallest tap was 2-56 largest was 3/8 24. I counted 123 taps and dies.  Even had a couple of small t-handle tap wrenches in there.  Ive acquired a big portion of my tools that way. Only buying brand names and getting great quality tools. But if you only but one item at a time, buy the best quality you can afford.  
Mel


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## tattoomike68

lugnut said:
			
		

> My second most favorite hobby next to my little shop is going to Garage or Yard sales I picked up a cigar box full of taps and dies last week for $5.  All made in the USA and in good shape.  Smallest tap was 2-56 largest was 3/8 24. I counted 123 taps and dies.  Even had a couple of small t-handle tap wrenches in there.  Ive acquired a big portion of my tools that way. Only buying brand names and getting great quality tools. But if you only but one item at a time, buy the best quality you can afford.
> Mel



Now thats a score, thats what I will do is keep an eye out for a deal like that.


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## lugnut

Doesnt it make you feel good when the little puffers actually run
 Mel


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## tattoomike68

lugnut said:
			
		

> Doesnt it make you feel good when the little puffers actually run
> Mel



Yes , I was thrilled. its ugly here is the pictures.











You can see the hot roll bar and the shear mark from the mill, its crude but it was a ton of fun, all I can think is *next.*

It was fun, I will make many more and from here they will be more complex.


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## Tin Falcon

Alex:
  The steel against plastic does not seem to be a problem.  Keep clean and use a little mineral oil. like I said Lucy is my first born. She has logged something over 70 hours of tun time and still going strong. A funny thing with a steel to plastic fit. I repaired a vacuum cleaner a while back, gets lots of use. the steel shaft was actually more worn than the plastic wheel the reason ? Grit got into it and the wheel acted as a lap and wore down the steel. 
So to answer your question unless it is run a lot or at high rpms for hours on end .  Should last for Years. PS I have used Corian for engines as  well as the clear plastics. Clear hard plastics have a tendency to chip if not careful use a zero rake  or slightly dull drill bit. also cool the bit with soapy water. The best way I have found to polish plastic is wet sand 320.400.600 then follow medium grade auto polish then a good plastic polish. Mothers plastic polish here in the states works well but a good grade from the auto supply store should work.  The cheap stuff is a waste of time and money. With a little practice plastics are great to work with. I continually get comments about the see through engines at the shows . people love to see how the engines work  while watching them run. 

Tin


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## Tin Falcon

Alex et al: 
 A few real basic rules for scaling. Linear measurement is directly proportional. Areas are proportional to the square and volume is cubed.   So as an example if you start with an engine of 1/2" bore the new diameter of the bore is 1" . But the same amount of air or steam pressure exerts 4 times the force on the piston. It will produce 8 times the power and consume 8 times the air or steam and use 8 times the material by volume therefore mass or weight. Potentially it could be 8 times the material cost. 

Now if we go the other direction and make it half size  the bore becomes 1/4"
the force exerted on the piston is 1/4 of the the original engine . the power air /steam consumption volume and weight will be one 1 /8 th of the original. 
Also keep in mind that the smaller the engine the more important fit and finish between moving parts. This become a concern. A higher percentage of the power is used to overcome friction and there is less usable power left over. 
For a first engine 1/2" to 3/4" is a good size it is more likely to run the first time without a lot of run in. 
Yes my first engine completed was 1/4 bore  the second 3/8 bore that is before I knew better.

Scaling can be helpful in converting metric to English, Like I mentioned above to increase the size of an engine by making  1 " = 32 MM instead of 24.5 conversely making an engine approx 3/4 scale makes it easy to go from metric to English measure make 1mm = 1/32 of an inch .     1 mm is really 1/25.4  or if you want to scale it up make 1 mm =1/16. by scaling up approx 1-1/2 times   So this type of scaling makes the numbers come out even 
Tin


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## lugnut

I tried something today on the cylinder for the little engine Im building.  I used a brake cylinder hone to clean up the tool marks.  It worked real well and left a nice, smooth, cross-hatched finish.
Hope it works  
Mel


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## hitandmissman

I would leave it the way it is.  Just my thoughts.  Gotta make that one myself.  Looks good.


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## lugnut

Kenny here is a link to great site showing the engine.
http://www.geocities.com/~rrice2/my_engines/farmengn/hayseed.htm
Mel


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## loggerhogger

Cole's Power Models has one. www.colespowermodels.com


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## Jack

I think thats neat or as the kids say now a days "It's the Bomb" 

I'm going to start on one in the next few days. so be prepared for some questions, I'm sure that I'll get stumped somewhere along the way.


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## lugnut

This evening is the first time that I have seen this section.  I'm assuming that its only visible to the moderators.   Looks like a great idea, now all I have to do is find something of value to write here.
Mel :roll:


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## Tin Falcon

Rick :
   A good point. I used to think it was silly getting MSDS sheets with drill bits.
I have very seldom seen a machinist using  dust mask to sharpen tooling. Even in the US Air force shops the land of safety double eye protection is stressed for grinding but not respiratory protection.  
As for using a shop vac a great Idea. I have a clean stream  hepa  filter in mine. they cost about $25 but will last over 5 years with proper care. 

Proper ventilation in the shop is important. I have to deal with breathing issues. My allergists advise was this. Set up an exhaust fan! " Dilution is the solution to pollution."


Tin


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## the engineer

hi guys and gals i appreciate what you say i have cerable palsey and as i have got older the falls are more frequent and hurt a lot more it seems  :cry:  but i have made a deal with the wife that i will only go to the workshop when she is home  so she can check if im ok we have an intercom setup that she can hear me pottering around and can check up or come out and see if all goes quiet  or a large soft thud is heard followed by a groan or [email protected]#$%  its hard when she now works sat and i work normal work days but i get out when i can or if im just cleaning small parts etc they come inside where im with the family 
the boss at work worries all the time which irks me a bit  as im the only one in seven years  not to hurt my self at work 
 but i still love my work and life   cheers hope i get to know you al better in the comming days


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## lugnut

A sign at the entrance of the large machine shop:  Warning to young ladies: If you wear loose clothes, beware of the machinery. If you wear tight clothes, beware of the machinist. :roll:


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## compound driver

Hi
also worth remembering carbide end mills can shatter. yup had one do it. It hurts more pulling the splinters out than when they go in!

Cheers Kevin


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## compound driver

HI John
The twisted brass on a showmans engine are called Olivers short for oliver twist.
Most if not all are hollow with a steel stud all the way through. My mates engine Respite has the same I know this as we replaced the rods a few months ago.
The brass olivers were some times cast but mostly twisted after annealing.

Cheers Kevin


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## dparker

John:  You might take a look on the Home Shop Machinist and Machinist's Workshop BBS and look at Evan's posts of a few months ago.  He did some twisting of metal for some porch railings and gates that looked pretty nice and may be of some help or ideas for you.  That "threading that you did really looks nice, I can only imagine it would be quite a stress riser to machine.  Good work!                    Don


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## ronm

When I first got my lathe, 12" Craftsman, I had a Chicom cutoff tool holder & the lantern toolpost...Parting off was almost impossible...the Atlas is not the most rigid thing ever built anyway, & it was an ordeal that made me grab the hacksaw whenever I could. I took to leaving the belts loose so they would slip instead of buggering up the whole setup when the tool dug in; not if but when. Finally, I got a Yuasa quick-change tool holder set, it included the parting tool holder. What a difference! It's so much more rigid, there's no comparison...parting off is still not my favorite operation, but at least it's not a wreck waiting to happen.


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## ed miles

This problem faces those of us who work alone in our shops, and we are not as fast as we used to be reacting to a hazardous situation. Dropped a rotary table on ones foot, tripped on the edge of a fatigue mat and fell or worse. The MRO magazine this month has a battery operated alarm unit that is worn by the person. If the person stops moving the unit gives a loud audio alarm and then sends a signal back to the base unit up to a half mile. If the base is manned, the active response is initiated by the base person. It can also be connected to a auto dial phone system for remote response by other safety or for us retirees a family member. No price stated but I have sent for more information and will post it as soon as it arrives.

Ed


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## peteski

Not only can end mills bite while in a milling machine but they can do alot of harm sitting on your bench. When you get milling cutter resharpened they come back with a plastic coating on them to protect the cutting edges. I seen a guy grab the coating with one hand and the end mill with the other hand and pull. The sharp edges cut through the coating and his hand, 35 or so stiches later he came back to work. I might have been a newbie and at my first machine shop job but even I knew better than that. That was 30 years ago and I have all ten fingers and they all work. Must have been awake in class when they talked about safety. Use a 6"metal scale or even a nail to remove the coating, save the hands and fingers for model building.   Peteski


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## Jack

The plans are available right here on this site, in the PLANS section. Just follow the link to the plans they are a PDF so that you can print them out on any printer, there is even a link to video of the engine running along with hints from other builders.
Today I made the ignition cam and installed the points and condensor, tommorow I am going to attempt the exhaust cam if I can figure it out. Photos at eleven


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## Seanol

I was working on a motor that was running mechanical fuel injection. I was dependent on O2 sensors on the Dyno for accurate air/fuel ratio. When you use race fuel with O2 sensors (leaded fuel) they degrade quickly. 

One way to tell if they are working is to use propane in the exhaust (open headers) to see if the reading goes rich. You do not light the torch, just use the gas. Well, I could not get a reading. This torch had a bad igniter on it so I placed it up against my palm and pulled the trigger to see if I could feel the gas pressure. 

Yep,the one time the igniter decides to work! I had a 2nd degree burn on my palm about the size of a Susan B. Anthony coin for about 2 weeks. 

On the plus side, if you ever have a burn, Spenco makes great bandages that help heal and prevent scarring. No financial
 interest, just a satisfied customer.

Regards,
Sean


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## bob ward

Have a word to the guys or trawl the archives at www.backyardmetalcasting.com 
There is a wealth of experience and information there.


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## lugnut

I bought two buzz coils (Model "T" FORD) on eBay a while back and have had a ball playing with them. By setting up the test stand shown on that web page I was able to produce a 3/4" spark that I sure wouldn't want to touch. The Ford model T had 4 of these, one for each cylinder.
Mel


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## bob ward

This was a standard 14" abrasive cut off saw, originally mounted on a small pressed metal base. A few years ago I got tired of kneeling on the floor to cut up RHS, so I dispensed with the pressed metal base and made up this trolley for the saw.

There is a drop down handle at the left hand end so I can wheel the trolley around wheelbarrow fashion.

While I was at it I made the back guide about 2' long and fitted 2 screw clamps, this helps keep long lengths of material square to the saw. Plus a tray underneath to hold small offcuts


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## Tin Falcon

Guys I pruned this off the challenge thread. I think this is a great discussion but it was not part of the challenge thread. 
1)I think this is a great Idea but i do see some things to overcome.
2)Someone would need to coordinate and work out the logistics. 
3)Work would have to be decided as fairly as possible so one person is not contributing a huge amount of time or material.
4)In the spirit of the board it should be an engine NOT a tool.
5) Built should be from bar stock.
6)Size should be such that the guys with small machines such as the 7x10 lathe and the companion mini mill are included. 
7) a time frame deadline to finish parts must be included. 
8) The complexity of the engine may be determined by the size of the team. 
Tin

So as to not let this idea die on the vine 

a) do we have a volunteer or nomination for Team Captain/ coordinator
b) Do we have a volunteer/nomination as a second backup or assistant Coordinator
c) Who whants to be included in the team
d) lets see some suggestions for published/available blueprints of an engine to build. 
Once a team and list of possibilities for the project are collected the team members can vote on the project and the team leader if needed. Also a reasonable deadline for completion can be set. 
Once a team, leaders and project is selected then part /work assignments can be made.


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## zeusrekning

And they're off!! Keep us informed on the progress.


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## Bogstandard

Waiting in anticipation.

Another string to our bow.

John


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## shred

What speed do you run that blade in the Taig? I've got one in the parts box all waiting for me to make an arbor.


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## joe d

Shred

I've been running at 880 rpm, it probably would do OK one range higher, I just haven't had the nerve to try yet! In both ali and brass, I've found that it runs a little quieter and leaves a smoother finish if I squirt on a bit of WD 40, the downside to this is that I have a couple of shirts with nice horizontal oil level indicators ;D

Joe


----------



## Bernd

Joe,

What dia. is that saw blade? Want to try something like that on my Grizzly mini-mill.

Bernd


----------



## joe d

hi Bernd

It's 85mm / 24 tooth (just a bit over 3.25"). Picked it up at the local Canadian Tire for somewhere around $10 (don't recall exactly). Turned a boss on a blank arbour to a tight fit in the hole in the blade and that was that. Someday I might do the math to figure out the speed of a tooth at that dia at rpm "X" = what cutting speed, at the moment just going by what seems comfortable.

Joe


----------



## SmoggyTurnip

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> Here I'll Document the pillars that I'm building for the team build.
> 
> Tomorrow I'll heat treat the end and grind the relief n the top of it.Wes



How will you grind relief in the top without destroying the beautiful form shape ?


----------



## Powder keg

Trade Secret)


----------



## BobWarfield

Go Wes!

Best,

BW

PS I'm a bit slow, just noticed the little saying in your signature. Almost sprayed my big monitor with Starbucks! LOL


----------



## BobWarfield

Joe, that's a wicked looking saw blade in that mill!

I love the idea of being able to cut so close and save on the milling time. I may have to be on the lookout for one. I like the diameter too. I have a bunch of slitting/slotting blades I got off eBay that I use, but they're small diameter. Maybe 3" diameter on the biggest. The hub hangs down so that if you're cutting very far the hub hits too soon. This blade would cure that problem.

Thanks for sharing it!

Best,

BW


----------



## deere_x475guy

Just another member saying what a great idea!!...I will be trying it also.


----------



## Powder keg

Hey Gang, I managed to get a little more done today. I heated the end of the tool steel blank up red hot and held it for a min or so. Then I quenched it in oil. This made a black finish on the tool. I took some emery paper and shined the end up a bit and very slowly warmed the end up till it started to turn straw color. Then I quenched it again. After that I set it at about 4 degrees in a vice on a surface grinder and just cleaned up the top. I only went back about 3/16 of an inch because that is all that was needed. Here is a picture of the result. You can still see the straw color on the top. 





If any need further description please ask)

Have a great day, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

Your off to a great start Joe. Keep up the great work! I like the saw idea. I might have to try that someday. 

Wes


----------



## Bernd

Nice looking tool you made there Wes. Excellent heat treating to.

Bernd

P.S. What Bob said, only I had water. 8)


----------



## joe d

One thing I've learned with this: it lets you know RIGHT AWAY if you're out of tram ;D

Joe


----------



## Powder keg

Started on the second tool. I have it turned down. My tool was a bit dull, but a quick hit with a file and some emery polished right up. Here is a picture of it before I cut it off with my band saw. 






I'll bore it tomorrow. Can you guess what It is going to be?

Wes


----------



## rake60

That is one hungry looking cutter Joe.

Be SAFE!

Rick


----------



## Bogstandard

wonderful job there wes.

suspect the new tool will be a plunge cut ball form tool 

john


----------



## Powder keg

Thanks for the compliments Bog. Your guess is wrong)

Try again, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

Here's not much of a hint. I've been a full time machinist for 13 years and I've never *needed* one of these till now)


----------



## BobWarfield

Wes, darn you, I can't quit thinking of the possibillities for making tools using CNC now that you've shown that gorgeous form tool. 

Sorry for the OT, I'll go away on this, but I just wanted to share this recurring crazy idea I keep having. Everyone knows the Deckel Single Lip Tool Grinder? They sell for anywhere from say $1000 to like $4000 if newer. People try to build more versatile (or sometimes less versatile) grinders like the Qorns et al. 

For the kind of money that Deckel costs, it sure seems like you could build a CNC tool grinder. I'm picturing a little mill, say Sieg sized, with a 4th axis and a tool post grinder for a spindle. Sure seems like you could make some cool stuff quick and easy with a rig like that. End mill sharpening would be trivial. Custom tool shapes would be very doable. I guess an HSM'er would never go to the trouble, but if I ever found my self with a small mill like that I'd be tempted!

Back to the regularly scheduled and totalling awesome Wes tooling and pillar show now!

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Powder keg

Thanks Bob, I did make a mistake on my tool. I just thought of it a few min. ago. I can work around it though. I'll explain when I start cutting)

Wes


----------



## Powder keg

Here is the other end of that tool I was working on. I bored out the fat end of it. 







I also cut all the pieces to legnth on my bandsaw. The distance from the blade to the vise is to great to cut stuff this small. To make it work I just backed up the brass with a piece of keystock that went almost to the blade. Here is a picture. 





To be continued....


----------



## Tin Falcon

> Everything else was straight forward. I was polishing the tit of my extra part (part #13)when it hit me that I was only supposed to make six sets. Huh?


sound like time to play lets make a deal with Brass_Machine LOL
Man the finish on that bore looks fantastic. 
Tin


----------



## Brass_Machine

Tim... Sent ya a PM


----------



## zeusrekning

Finsih was a Ra 16micron. I really didn't think the finish would come out like that. Steve must have brought me some luck.


----------



## Powder keg

Those look Great!!! How is the fit with the piston? Did it come out pretty good?

Wes


----------



## zeusrekning

The fit felt good to me. The piston , when pushed into the cylinder, would not fall out. I have not drilled the inlet port yet so a vacum was created.
I had to blow air into the bottom of the cylinder to and the piston would rise up. 
Tim


----------



## Powder keg

I'll post some pictures later, but. I pressed a small bearing into the cup that I bored out. Then I made a sleeve that was a snug fit into the inside of the bearing. It was drilled 5/32 so the pillars are a slip fit into it. This will be held in a drill chuck in my tail stock. Now when I use my new profile tool, I can slide this over the outboard end to support the shaft good. I think a center drilled in the end of a shaft this small would be a wast of time. Remember the profile tool will be taking a cut that is .750" wide.

I'll be gone till Monday evening, Wes


----------



## deere_x475guy

Tim those look great! What do you think contributed to the nice finish? Grinding the flutes down perhaps?


----------



## zeusrekning

Bob I wish I could tell you? The only thing I can tell you is mabey the chips loading up in the flutes burnished the hole??? I had to eyeball the twist of the endmill to get it on center so I assumed it was off some? I am slightly worried that I may have messed something else up. It seems like when something falls into place as well as that bore did then there is something I have missed elsewhere. But... I'll keep them fingers crossed.
Tim


----------



## deere_x475guy

Well I wouldn't worry about Tim they look fine. Not sure how much I am going to get done today. The arthritis in my hands is pretty bad this weekend and nothing seems to be helping.


----------



## BobWarfield

What they call those steady rests that are just a single bearing on axis? Cat heads? This will be like a cat head that mounts in the tailstock, eh? 

That's a cool idea for really small parts. In my continuing quest to over engineer everything, I'm wondering if there would be some way to make one that accepts collets or sleeves to hold different sizes? It's a wonder Hardinge didn't make something like that. Perhaps they did. Of course then you'd have to buy 2 expensive 5C collets in the sizes desired, but it sure would be slick.

Neat idea, Wes!

Best,

BW


----------



## Bogstandard

Bob,

You can buy chuck backplates that have a rotating morse taper at the back, so you can mount a standard lathe chuck in your tailstock for just such a problem.

http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/info_9234233.html

John


----------



## Cedge

I doubt there is much to sweat with Tim's work. He's pretty meticulous and he plays that CNC machine like a bloody piano. This young guy was punching buttons like an accountant with a last minute tax return...(grin). Little cylinders soon started piling up like popcorn. Being a manual only guy, the chance to see him run the CNC was a treat. I sort of had a hard time with the idea that we were cutting up a number of parts after he'd made them, but cut them up we did, as the photos he posted show. 

All the while, he patiently and graciously fielded questions from an ignorant, but quite curious old fart. At least one of us had a real good time and Tim didn't hesitate to invite me back to annoy him again. He even loaded me up with all sorts of inserts and some much needed metal to play with. Thanks Tim... I had a ball.

Steve 

PS... that aluminum is going to work perfectly for the new engine base. I can get the whole thing out of the larger piece, with very little cutting required. Already half way into making the new ball cutter heads, for the carbide inserts. The boring bars will come next.


----------



## Powder keg

I had thought of getting something like that. The only problem is on my little South Bend there isn't room. So this is what I came up with)

Wes


----------



## Bogstandard

Wes, that was aimed at Bob.

I was going to buy one of those 2" chucks and make one up out of an old MT drill and a couple of ball races. It would be perfect for holding tubes and things.

John


----------



## zeusrekning

I had a great time also Steve. What I didn't tell you was next time I'm going to have you running a machine.  It does go to show how fun this hobby can be when you're having so much fun you can't stop making parts. I'm looking foward to seeing what you come up with to hold those little inserts. Well I have to go continue my fight with Altell wish me luck.
Tim


----------



## BobWarfield

John, I should have guessed it had been done before. I do like the idea of a 5C collet chuck that is concentric on the tailstock for really fine work. I also know you can get ER collet chucks on MT tapers. Perhaps the slick accessory would be a taper in a ball bearing so you can put whatever you'd like in it.

Best,

BW


----------



## zeusrekning

Here are the rest of the pics. Steve took this with his camera. I can see things with his camera I couldn't see in person.


----------



## rake60

Tim 
You HAVE to do a thread detailing that machine!
My tool envy just went up 69% 

Rick


----------



## zeusrekning

Rick, It is nothing special. I have 3 Hawacheon Lathes at work and 3 fadal mills. This is the small Hi-eco 10 lathe. Ask any questions you may have. It is just a single spindle single turret lathe. No C axis or live tooling. But if nothing else, these little lathes are super ridgid.


----------



## BobWarfield

No wonder those cylinders were done so well so fast, LOL!

I am curious. Hwacheon made Mori Seiki manual lathes under license and they were supposed to be very good lathes. Is your Hwacheon a Mori Seiki CNC clone, or a completely unrelated machine? Either way, it's very cool!

Give us the dope on how you generated the g-code. Did you write it? Mastercam? Show some Solidworks, Mastercam or other screenshots. I wish we could see a video of it making one, but you're all done.

Cool stuff!

Best,

BW


----------



## greener

Ok, Ok

Looks like the team build has a ringer...I figured most would be using a hobby lathe and mill and maybe some homebuilt cnc along the way. No way did I figure that a pro-shop lathe be used.

I'm with BobW details, we must have more details.

Looks like the project is off to a fantastic start, great work Tim.

Brian


----------



## zeusrekning

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> I am curious. Hwacheon made Mori Seiki manual lathes under license and they were supposed to be very good lathes. Is your Hwacheon a Mori Seiki CNC clone, or a completely unrelated machine? Either way, it's very cool!
> 
> Give us the dope on how you generated the g-code. Did you write it? Mastercam? Show some Solidworks, Mastercam or other screenshots. I wish we could see a video of it making one, but you're all done.



I have heard that the Hwacheon is basically an earlier model Seikis guts. But I haven't used a Seiki to compare. I entered all the G-code by hand at the machine on this part. If the part is more complex I may sit down and write a program at the desktop. We don't use any CAM software for the lathes. Me have Geopath for the mills, it can generate code for the lathes also but we don't. CAM software for lathes is a little quirky. Unless you are doing a lot of complex machining software is not necessary. I will occasionally draw something up on CAD and plot points of the tool travel if I have an awkward profile to cut.

Brian, Yeah I new I was going to get that. I am getting a lathe at the house in the near future but don't have one yet. I only live two miles from work so I do what I have to. I don't have any serious plans for a mill at home yet so all my mill work will be done at work. 
Thanks for the kind words guys,
Tim


----------



## 13AL

I understand making tooling is half the fun but being a rookie most of my tooling needs to be store bought, so in this case if I am understanding this correctly a "live" drill chuck in the tail stock would do the trick?? just saw them at LMS.

????
Kurt


----------



## Powder keg

Kurt, That "live chuck" would work fine for what I'm doing. But, I may never need it again so before I buy a tool I ask myself. Self, do you really need that? Or can you figure something out) I'll get the pictures of the tool I made up today. It was made from scrap. It didn't cost me anything accept about a half hour to build. New machinists should have this kind of attitude when first starting out especially. If not they will have tools in their box that in ten years they'll only have used once and they'll sell'em on Ebay to another new guy)

Have a great day, Wes


----------



## deere_x475guy

I agree with PowderKeg, that's the way I started out. The very first tool I made a was a spring loaded tap guide. Works great and I use it all the time and smile when I pick it up..


----------



## Powder keg

I'm doing pretty good) Thanks for asking) I'm going out right now to work on my pillars. The bushing I made for my live tail stock support is a bit loose. Turns out I used the wrong drill bit for the center hole. Duh! I have to make a stop for my collet chuck so they all will be the same length.


----------



## deere_x475guy

I'm in the shop right now and thought I would try John suggestion of trying a round collet for this 1/4" hex...however I don't have collets in 32nds. So I either wait till I order a hex on Monday or try the 3 jaw....or just be lazy today...:_)


----------



## BobWarfield

I've been working on mounting my 5C collet chuck. The other thing I did was to experiment with polishing the brass for the flywheels, and with "bumping the tool" to keep it's diameter accurate along a long piece of brass. Lastly, now that the collet chuck is more or less working, I've been trying it out on the flywheels and thinking of various "mass production" techniques. Frankly, I could just make them all as one offs, but I wanted to fool around with it a bit more.

Since this is my first experience with 5C collets on the lathe, I am learning some things, not all of them helpful, but all things I need to be aware of to succeed. The chuck is extremely accurate, and I love the ability to take a part out for measurement and put it back quickly and accurately. Very cool! On the negative front, while collets are supposed to be non-marring, they aren't. After a little research I discovered you can get nylong 5C's that would be. The other one that's been vexing me is that the workpiece moves in length as you tighten the collet. This makes it hard to use work stops as effectively as I had hoped. 

I did one quick flywheel, start to finish including the reamed hub and it looks good. I may just get going doing them individually without further "mass production" experiments. The con rod will be harder. Been thinking about it a lot. I'll probably use collets for it too.

Best,

BW


----------



## deere_x475guy

Bob the collets do tend to pull the work piece back into the collet. I use a collet stop to keep that at bay.


----------



## Brass_Machine

I have my cylinders done (Thanks Tim! ;D) Just waiting for them to get here so I can make the pistons and 12 cylinder plates (I am gonna make Tims)

Eric


----------



## zeusrekning

I still need to drill the cross holes in the pistons and cylinders. I don't think I will be able to get to it this weekend. 
Tim


----------



## deere_x475guy

Awh...great progress it would appear.)). I just finished the first Steam/Air connector. Will post in another thread.


----------



## Powder keg

Today, I drilled out a brass collet and made a collet stop for it. I chucked up the brass pieces and trued up one end of the 50 that I had cut with my band saw. Next I'll face them to length. Then I can see if my form tool will work. 

The weather was so nice today about 100 motorcycler's rode by. I couldn't resist working on my bike so I tacked together a fairing bracket. A buddy of mine gave me a 30 year old Vetter fairing to mount on my bike) I just have to tweak it a bit and then weld it up and I'll be in business)

Hope everyone had a great day!

Wes


----------



## Jadecy

Done with my six bearings. Pictures have been posted in my progress thread in the team builds section

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1730.0


----------



## gilessim

Will hopefully get the bases done this week, I'm having a few problems with work and at home but my friend said I could use his mill.

I wanted to ask, what about the little slot on one end of the base, do we need that?, or is a countersunk hole ok ,since I'm putting a little 1/4 bead around them, the slot would spoil the lines!

Also ,does someone want to make some (cnc) little brass plaques?, if so then I'll make the wooden sub-bases wider on one side so there's a place for them, if not , I'll just make them symetrical.

Giles


----------



## joe d

finished drilling the holes in the face for steam ports this morning. Still have to drill and tap the holes in the top and rear, cut out & mill the clearance for the flywheel, drill the oiler, polish the things.... practically done!

Joe


----------



## BobWarfield

Just to let you all know, work is progressing on the flywheels. I've played around with various things (a backplate so I could use a collet chuck, learning the ins and outs of collets, and a simple DRO for my compound slide) when I could've just banged them out quick, but they are nearly complete:







I've been experimenting with various ways and tooling to optimize the "manufacturing process". There is one more thing I want to try on the final flywheels and then I'll put together a thread that shows with pics what my best practices were.

FWIW, I will polish the rim but not the sides. I like the contrast, similar to the way a lot of castings machine the rim but leave the spokes as cast or sometimes one sand blasts for a matte finish.

After the flywheels are taken care of, I will move on to the con rods. I need to make a button head/v-block fixture for it, but shouldn't need much other exotic tooling.

I will post on the compound DRO elsewhere.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## joe d

gilessim  said:
			
		

> I wanted to ask, what about the little slot on one end of the base, do we need that?, or is a countersunk hole ok ,since I'm putting a little 1/4 bead around them, the slot would spoil the lines!
> 
> 
> 
> Giles



Giles:

I don't know about everybody else, but I like the hole in lieu of the slot.

Joe


----------



## Powder keg

Today I worked on my pillars, among other things. I made a collet stop last weekend. It had to be small enough to reach in the small hole of the collet. It worked pretty good. I have 25 faced to length and they are all within .0015 of each other. I have been checking every one with a mic. Every once in a while, One comes out about .002 long? If I reinsert it and take a cut, It comes out to the right length. My south Bend needs the spindle tightened up. I have about .003" up and down movement in the bushings and a couple in and out. I'm sure this is where the discrepancy is. 

I should be working my form tool on Friday)

Wes


----------



## joe d

Progress report.....

Just finished tapping all six, in all the spots required, WITHOUT BREAKING A TAP! Huzzah! Next up, milling to final dimension in respect to thickness. 

Joe


----------



## BobWarfield

Wes, I've been having similar 0.001" (and every once in a while, 2 or 3 thou) too long results with my collet facing operations on the flywheels. That's why I built the compound DRO. It helped, but did not eliminate the problem. I'll figure out what it's doing eventually, but it is annoying!

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Bogstandard

You will find that an integral collet stop on 5c collets is dependent on the pressure applied when tightening the collet. Too slack and you will cut short, too tight and it will cut long. I always use a marker to mark the position of the chuck key, and this gives fairly repeatable results. This is all dependent on the pieces having exactly the same O.D.

The only positive way of getting a totally repeatable collet backstop is to make a spindle backstop and extend it thru the collet chuck and collet. But of course this will only work if the spindle is free of endfloat, unlike Wes, who has a bit of work to do to get his sorted.

The easiest way of doing the small quantities that you are doing, is face each end, measure to find amount to remove, with the saddle locked and by using the compound, touch on with the facing tool, and wack it off. A lot more accurate and easier than playing about with stops.

John


----------



## gilessim

Just to say, that the hole , instead of the slot, means that the engine will have to be mounted to the wooden base before the cylinder assembly is mounted, otherwise one would have to use a cranked screwdriver of some kind, that seems to be the only reason for the slot. But with the pillars now having internal threads, that shouldn't be a problem!

Giles


----------



## joe d

Giles:

Maybe blind holes from underneath?

Joe


----------



## Jadecy

Sounds like you are doing quite well. I'm just glad we are using brass and not 1018 steel or something like that. I get nervice with those little taps!

There are a lot more holes in that bearing than I realized. When you take all the holes plus tapping multiplied by 6 it is quite a job!


----------



## alan2525

If you can saw most of the surplus stock straight off that's a real time saver!

Is the Carbide tipped blade just one of those small ones used for small desktop tablesaws? It looks very fearsome! I'd be worried about something catching and pulling into the blade prior to parts being launched into orbit? And just gripped in the tiny standard Taig Vice too?

No problems to report yet?


----------



## shred

I think the little blades are designed for small cordless circular saws; http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=2468


----------



## Tin Falcon

Well guys guess I better jump in her with my $.02.
I have been quiet, but watching the board like a hawk er I mean Falcon. As you know I am doing the reversing valve etc. I have brass on hand . I used the project as an excuse to pick up a pot chuck to hold the parts so I can get a nice finish on both sides. I have end mills on order should be here tomorrow. I will be ordering the thumb nuts and springs. I plan on getting some 1/16 stainless for the levers . So your fearless leader has not actually made any chips yet. Seems like every time I do a project it is two or three at once and having to order stuff from 3-4 different places. 
I did some math and a sketch. I plan on an interesting setup on the lathe for the milling so will keep you posted with picks of the setup. 
A minor set back is a twisted ankle about a week and a half ago. So by the time I am done work I just want to rest the foot. You know the deal life always seems to get in the way of the hobbies. 

Team members please PM or email your shipping address so I can start getting the logistics for parts distribution organized. 

Tin


----------



## joe d

Alan

Shred got it in one. I've got the Canadian Tire house brand blade, I've been using them for years in my wood working table saw with perfectly acceptable results, and this one has functioned well so far in the mill. The nice thing about the rubber-band drive belt on the Taig is that it lets the cutter stall if you dig in too deep or catch something. This was a very handy thing when I was experimenting with feed-rates. I have to admit, having all those teeth zipping around in the horizontal plane right in front of yourself can be intimidating. Next time I trip over a little left-over lexan I'll be building a see-through shield that I'll attach on some of those handy t-slots on the front of the spindle. And yes, still using the standard taig vise for most things. I'll upgrade someday.....

Joe


----------



## BobWarfield

A pot chuck is in my future, but not yet you lucky sod!

Careful of that ankle. I fell off a bus in Mexico one time, nearly broke an ankle, sprained both of them, and broke 8 of 10 toes.

Did I mention I can sometimes be clumsy?

Never would've guess one could be hurt that badly having fallen from so low a height.

Cheers,

BW

PS I'm getting a lot of inspiration from you guys. Sitting here tonight after a long work day. Got up 6am, left 7am, got home 7:30pm. Not that atypical, but hard to drum up the energy to go to the shop on these kind of days. Nice to curl up and read of other's progress at times like this!


----------



## zeusrekning

Finally finished!!! I hope...
I drilled the piping holes in the cylinders, the wrist pin holes in the pistons, and made the wrist pins today. No real in process pics , everything was just straight foward drilling. The wrist pins seem simple but they were a major PITA. They are 1/16" diameter and about .365" long. I just ground them to length on the bench grinder so it was "do a handfull to get a couple". 
The only other problem was drilling the hole in the cylinders. I turned the OD and bored the ID of the Cylinders in the same operation. So when I drilled through it pushed a burr into the cylinder. Cedge recommended boring the center after drilling as to remove the burr while boring. The only problem with this method was the CNC lathe I used. It has a hydralic chuck on it that would crush these parts. Even turned all the way down it would have 
deformed the bore. So what I did was make a plug that was tight to the bore, then insert it in during the drilling op. This would alow no burr from the drill breaking through the cylinder wall. 
Here is the plug beside a cylinder.




Here is the plug in the cylinder waiting to be drilled.




Here is an unpolished next to a polished cylinder.




Tim


----------



## zeusrekning

I have my pistons, cylinders, and wrist pins complete (-) polishing. 
Eric I will be sending you the extra cylinders and some 1/16" drill rod shortly, all I need to do is polish.
Tim


----------



## Brass_Machine

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> I have my pistons, cylinders, and wrist pins complete (-) polishing.
> Eric I will be sending you the extra cylinders and some 1/16" drill rod shortly, all I need to do is polish.
> Tim



Coolio I will be waiting ;D


----------



## joe d

A productive evening in the shop tonight:

Finished milling the face down to size





Did some sawing with the carbide blade in the mill





and then knocked out the excess bits





Not too much left now, a little finish milling in the flywheel opening, drill the oil hole, and polish, polish, polish....

Joe


----------



## BobWarfield

Not much comment, eh? 

It's just as well. I decided to go the route of making a Button V-Block. Here's my drawing for the con rod sitting on the block. It's at a 45 degree angle because I needed to calculate the X and Z motions to line up my end mill to cut the v-slot.






In practice, I can place the con rod blank into the groove, clamp from above (clamp not shown, but similar to a v-block), insert the assembly into a collet, and make the flats at either end with facing operation on the lathe. From there I can carry the works over to a collet block set up on the mill and ream the 2 holes.

Hopefully I'll get done with it today or tomorrow and can actually try it on a sample con rod. That'll depend on how much undisturbed shop time I can steal!

Once I get the little fixture made I'll describe how it was made in a separate thread.

Best,

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

I'm in! 

This current one has been a lot of fun. I can't wait to see the finished engines.

I see the Team Build format as letting one "build" more engines that they'd otherwise have time to tackle. It's also a great opportunity to learn some new tricks, not the least of which is some of the skills required for "production" work. In my prior projects, if a part wasn't quite right, it was often an option to modify the parts it was fit to, and thereby avoid scraping. That's not really an option for a Team Build.

As to desired future builds, let's do something a little more complex, and a little more unusual. I mentioned the Hula Hula before. It isn't hard to build, it is ideal for the "production line" process that is a Team Build, and it is unusual. Doubtless there are many similar possibilities.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## JMe

Hi Eric
I am candidate to make some parts for you here in Belgium. 
Many thanks in advance to accept me in your team
Jacques


----------



## bretk

Eric,

 I know I am new to this sort of thing, but I would love to be part of the next team build!

Thanks,

Bret


----------



## Divided He ad

Hello BW,

I read this thread earlier in the week and spent some time trying to track down a version of the V block you described ... even the name Ed Dubosky didn't help me too much! (spent only bout half an hour looking, it was late!) 
Now that I see you cad rendering I get the whole plan. It looks to me like you chose the simpler option for a production run... less machine swaps sounds like quicker and less hassle to me!
Just wondering, since I found no pics of the button V, how do you hold the workpiece into the V? 
I thought a screwed down plate over the centre of the work piece? Or is it more elaborate than that? 

I know I'm not on the team build ... or even in the hall of accomplished builders! But I do take an interest in the wonderfull descriptions of how everyone does their work... Fascinating ;D


Ralph.


----------



## BobWarfield

Got 'er done!

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

In the original article Dubosky had 2 screw down plates that were round and on either side of a center hole. My V-block is already so small I hate to think of that! I'll be using one screw down plate held by two bolts. Progress was had before lunch:







Need to do the clamp next. I'll write up the whole thing when it's done so you can see what it is and how to make one. 

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Cedge

Bob
The Hula Hula would be a nice project for the build. Fascinating engine to watch sa it is running. It almost looks alive with all the wiggling going. Have you seen mine after I managed to get all the oil slinging under control? *http://www.cedesign.net/steam/radial.htm *

Steve


----------



## Brass_Machine

I like the hula. Wouldn't mind doing a radial either. But what about something else?? Maybe a Sterling? A Sterling fan even?? A flame licker? Maybe on of Jan's engines?Or should we keep it simple for awhile?

Eric


----------



## BobWarfield

Wow, that's some kinda hot rod Hula Hula you got there Cedge!

Love the paint job!

You can see how with so many duplicate parts for the cylinder assemblies there would be opportunities to split things up in interesting ways for a Team Build.

The only thing about the Stirlings is I'm under the impression they have to be done pretty precisely or they won't run. With that said, I'm good for about anything the group wants.

BW


----------



## Bogstandard

For something slightly different, why not try Elmers 'Kimble'.

If you have any cnc lads in the group, they would be the ideal ones for the cylinder and side plates.

The rest could be made by people of varying degrees of skill.

John


----------



## BobWarfield

All right, I'm stuck waiting on Loctite, so I may as well get started showing how to make the Button V-block.






Face, turn, deburr, radius, drill, and whatever else to create your cylindrical blank. The center hole makes the block more flexible because it let's you position a larger radius on the part there as well as at either end. Make the center hole as large as possible while still leaving enough beef to support parts in the "V" and to get your clamp bolts in there. Keep in mind that little guy is about 3/4" in diameter, so it's smallish.






This is how I'm holding the part at a 45 degree angle so I can use a regular end mill to cut the "V". These little import angle blocks have been handy on lots of jobs. I use them more than any other angle-related device in my shop.






I'm using an edge finder to zero the mill's axis over the high point. There's a lot of eyeballing going on here, so it isn't super accurate, but it will do on this job...






I zeroed my DRO and then cranked the Z-offset specified by my CAD drawing. Then I used my X-axis handwheel to get that offset taken care of. Remember the end mill's diameter!

<continued>


----------



## te_gui

The guys in the current team build seem to be having lots of fun, so I would like to join in this one. I have kind of lurked thus far, chimed in on a few threads. I spent plenty of time working in machine shops while I went to engineering school. I have lots of cool toys at work since my R&D lab shares the same building as the jug and fixture department (lots of access to free scrap bits as well).

Brian


----------



## BobWarfield

did a little "witness track" to see that my initial cut lined up with the bottom of the center hole. The witness track just barely grazed the part and looked like a line, not a groove. That center hole really helps to visually judge whether things are right. I want the V to wind up same width as the hole's diameter, though it need not be perfect either. 

This picture shows the result after several passes. I'm feeding carefully with the Y-axis and setting depth of cut with the X. I take 0.020" passes initially, but remember, every pass cuts more material as you move deeper into the V. After a couple 0.020", I went to 0.015", then eventually 0.010". For the last little bit I was doing 0.005" and then passes of a couple thousandths until I was lined up just right on the hole. You saw the result after this operation up above with the con rod blank laying in the "V".






Next, I stuck the part in a collet block and used my square to line up the "V" with the block sides. It's just an eyeball job, but it'll be close enough. If I'd used the collet block to hold while cutting the "V", I wouldn't have to do this!






There is a lot going on here! First, the collet block has a big handle sticking out the back. To get clearance, I clamped the collet block into my grinding vise, then lay the grinding vise on its side in the Kurt vise. The 1-2-3 block and jack provide a modicum of rigidity. I don't need a lot--not hogging, just drilling and tapping 2 small holes. Next, I positioned the clamp blank atop the V-block. I want to drill through both so the holes are located the same. To hold them together, I'm using some Loctite as "glue". It releases when heated so I can get them apart again. To position the two parts according to their proper relationship, I used a trick I learned from Frank Ford. Frank uses it to align his tailstock after set over. He claims that by feel you can get it to within 0.001" or less. In other words, by feeling until the two round pieces are matched up. I don't know if it is that accurate, but it'll be plenty good enough for this job!

Now I have to wait for the Loctite to set up before I can drill and tap...

Back in a bit!

BW


----------



## zeusrekning

I would say to wait and see how the current build goes together at assembly and if the were no quality and fit issues then kick it up a notch. I think the sterling fan would be a great one myself. I also like the Hoglet but I am an IC fellow. It looks to me like the current build is going well and I'm expecting no problems. I did forget to fill out my inspection documentation though. :
Tim


----------



## zeusrekning

dun did dun'it
Tim


----------



## joe d

Sent my address a while ago, did it get to you?

Joe


----------



## Philjoe5

Bob,
Thanks for sharing this stuff. Although I'm not on the team build project I appreciate making fixtures and jigs. It seems like every time I'm faced with what appears to be an impossible machining task, a jig or fixture makes the whole thing come out right. I'm filing what I see here because you've got me thinking out of the box and that often seems to be just what's needed for success ;D.

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## Brass_Machine

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> I would say to wait and see how the current build goes together at assembly and if the were no quality and fit issues then kick it up a notch. I think the sterling fan would be a great one myself. I also like the Hoglet but I am an IC fellow. It looks to me like the current build is going well and I'm expecting no problems. I did forget to fill out my inspection documentation though. :
> Tim



I agree. maybe a few more simple builds to work out the kinks, then start to increase the difficulty. 

Would love to do the Hoglet. Love the V twin engines.

Maybe one of the steamers that looks like an IC engine. Perhaps Liney would give us a discount on the plans for his Engines

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

joe d  said:
			
		

> Sent my address a while ago, did it get to you?
> 
> Joe



I believe some have already sent their addys to Tin. If you did, don't worry about it... you are ahead of the game!

Eric


----------



## BobWarfield

Grrrrr!  :-[

Broke a tap at the very end of tapping the last hole. Isn't that always the way? Murphy's Law: Whatever you screw up will be the most catastrophic screw up at the point where you've invested the most work in the project and it is the most expensive to fix!

What a classic way to screw up too. The wife invited friends for dinner. I'm happily puttering away when she comes screaming down the stairs wanting me to come help fix dinner. Just a few minutes and I'll be done honey, be up shortly. So then I put the hurry on and Craaaaack! Tap snapped off because I was in too much hurry to get done and run back upstairs.

It's a little 4-40 too. 

I think I read TattooMike say somewhere that a lefthand twist drill is the ticket to get a tap out. I don't have any left handers, let alone one this tiny size. But I do have a crazy idea. I'm thinking I can make a D-bit, which ought to run either direction. I can then set it up and run the spindle backwards. I've still got some small diameter broken solid carbide end mills. One of those could be pressed into service as a D-bit with a little grinder work.

We'll see if I can't salvage it. If not, I'll just make another one doggone it!  ;D

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Tin Falcon

Yes joe have it 
Tin


----------



## kustomkb

It's always the last hole or operation. Try that caustic soda or something that was mentioned here. 
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=270.0


----------



## Tin Falcon

Guys:
   I am going to opt out on build two. Am letting BM take the helm on this one solo. May set up for one in the fall. Hope to get some house projects done this summer. 
Tin


----------



## bretk

As far as liney goes, maybe he would let us model his prototype single cylinder cam actuated steam engine Here is the you tube of it. It is definately a different engine with a ic flavor and sound to it.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGIe3h1bKcU[/ame]


-Bret


----------



## Powder keg

Finally got some time for pictures) Here is what I have so far. 





There was a small bit of chatter. But, if I let the tool rest for about 3 seconds at the end of the cut, It would clear up. 




Here is what 50 of them look like) I still need to drill and tap the ends. It should go fairly fast. 





Have a great day everyone) Wes


----------



## joe d

looking good, Wes. 

Joe

PS Wasn't there any way you could have cast them?( ;D)


----------



## Bogstandard

Lovely work Wes.

John


----------



## Alphawolf45

I am real impressed with the results of the use of the homebrew form tool..Thats a high heap of parts too...Well done :bow:


----------



## Alphawolf45

If in the future a group builds an internal combustion engine of any sort I want in on it.. I aspire to doing such a build but I rather not build every single part myself..I am especially enamored by the single cylinder water cooled 2 stroke marine engines and want to build fullscale version to actually power a small boat...There are 750 members here, anybody else care to eventually build fullscale IC engine?


----------



## zeusrekning

Alpha, that is actually my ultimate goal. I have a 318cc Rotax I have been playing with. It is about the simplest engine I have ever torn apart. It is rated @ 18HP but what I want to do is actually build an in-line two cylinder based on its design. But after coming across this board I have been sidetracked. I don't know if it is peer pressure or what but I keep seeing these little engines I want very much and I'm using the excuse of " lessons learned building these small models will help when going full scale". I'm also interested in unique valve techniques as far as full scale engines go.

So





			
				Alphawolf45  said:
			
		

> There are 750 members here, anybody else care to eventually build fullscale IC engine?



Most definitely. 
Tim


----------



## zeusrekning

Wes it seems you are doing a really good job with those pillars. How are you liking the production work? I think these will add a good touch to the engine. 
Tim


----------



## Divided He ad

Been waiting to see what that tool was going to do  ;D 

That's a really good looking finish too... Very impressed.... I would have been faffing about trying to make them individually!!! Don't think that would have ever worked! 


Top job Wes :bow: 



Ralph.


----------



## Bogstandard

I am just trying to negotiate with Lance from Liney to do an article on building his 5 cylinder 'Halo' radial. But manually, rather than CNC as the original is built. Every thread on the engine is 2-56, but he can supply some super quality taps.

I have seen the plans for the single, and it would not be worth your while making as a second team build. Very small component count. But the person who got the head to make would be onto a hiding.

John


----------



## Alphawolf45

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> It is rated @ 18HP but what I want to do is actually build an in-line two cylinder based on its design. But after coming across this board I have been sidetracked.
> 
> So
> Most definitely.
> Tim


.
 Tim, Me too, I come at this from ambition to build gas engine but am presently building steam engine to learn some basics... I currently building two steam engines ,one for a home brew steam launch and thinking I might use second one to power my greensand muller..My old eyes dont enjoy tiny work, holler if you start up a group build of a reasonably large IC engine...It'd be a hoot to build one big enough to power a lawnmower or something rather bragworthy..
.
.Or I might buy an engine and try to reverse engineer it..Or there is a book available that has the plans for a gas single cylinder launch engine like particulary excites me.


----------



## te_gui

I am interested in doing some larger I.C. engine as well. I collect the single cylinder, hit and miss engines and have completed several restorations where I have had to reproduce parts from borrowed originals. The engine I am considering building is the Parcel and Weed engine detailed in a book available from Lindsay Publications. http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks3/parsell/index.html If you haven't discovered Lindsay yet, request their free catalog and there should be enough in there to keep you busy for a long time. The book on the engine details all the pattern making and machining necessary to make the engine. It will take a lot of time and effort making the various pieces, but would definitely give one a true sense of accomplishment when completed. If anyone else has contemplated this or completed it, I would love to talk to you.

Brian


----------



## Powder keg

Sign me up) I'm having a ball doing this. I'll vote on a stirling fan for the next build. I think We could pull it off)

Later, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

I'm glad veryone likes them. I was a little worried that they would be to far from the plans. But they do look nice. 

zuesrekning, The shop I work at builds a lot of parts. But, If we build more that 10 of something, It's a production job. It's not to bad though. I'm going to set up a stop for drilling. it should go really fast?

Wes


----------



## rake60

That's some impressive form tool making Wes!

I would have never thought it could cut that well
with so much surface contact. 

Great work!

Rick


----------



## Powder keg

It would have worked better on a bigger machine. I did this on my 9" South Bend. I had to tighten the gibs on the cross slide, lock the gibs on the compound, Locktite the bushing into the bearing. I messed up 4 toying around to get it to cut good. These are *Alot smaller* than the parts I generally work on.

Here is the end of a shaft that was brought in a while back. The big diameter is 6" and the broke part is about 4.375". I think they hit a VW burried in the snow LOL)





Later, Wes


----------



## zeusrekning

I seen the pic before reading the post and thought "man it's hard to tell how small the parts in the pics are". I assumed you were going to say it was a 1/4" part even though it looked 6" . I can't imagine the force it would take to do that. What was the shaft off of?
Tim


----------



## Powder keg

It goes into a reducing gearbox that we put in our snowblowers. This box weighs about 4400 pounds dry) The bull gear is 24" in diameter and 6" thick. The teeth are straight cut and the pitch is about 1.5".

Wes


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## Bernd

Tim, Alpha,

I'm also interested in IC engines. That's why I got a subscription to Engine Model Builder.

Now if Rick can avoid throwing something hard and heavy at me ;D may I say that according to the name of this forum it says and I quote "Home Model Engine Machinist". I take it that you can build any engine you desire and show it off here.  (Running to doan my fire resistant suit)

Bernd


----------



## Brass_Machine

We are *DEFINITELY* going to do an IC engine. I want one bad. I would like to progress the degree of the team builds to do that. I think with the talent (and the guys with CNC) we can pull it off. I for onee would like to see a team designed and built engine.

What do you guys think of that? Team design and Team built?

Eric


----------



## Cedge

Wes
That little trick was just filed for future use...(grin). It's going to add quite a nice flourish to the little project engines. (Marv Klotz memorial BLING filtering device is activated)....LOL

Steve


----------



## bretk

Having never built one, how hard is the odds and ends hit and miss to build? I just ordered the book from village press friday after seeing the recent posts on it. I have never tackled anything remotely that complicated ???, but I guess thats what the team build concept is all about. 

-Bret


----------



## Brass_Machine

How about something like the Hoglet or Jerry Howell's v-twin for the 3rd or 4th build?







Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

Holy crap Wes! those are fantastic. I received the extra cylinders from Tim and they are awesome as well. I think we are going to get some nice engines out of this! I am really glad we decided to do the team builds.

Eric


----------



## Bernd

That sounds pretty good Eric. I would think that would be an "over the winter project". Like maybe from October to March time frame. Not much to do during the winter months.........though I still have the house to finish on the inside..ah well.

Bernd


----------



## BobWarfield

Sweet!

You really get a sense of scale seeing the shot with the 5C collet. And boy, there's a lot of them too!

Best,

BW


----------



## gilessim

Yes they really look nice! ,they should go well with the bases ( no-one made any comment, I hope I didn't p**s you all off with the lack of photos but I'm just going through my 2nd divorce as of a couple of weeks ago, so things are a bit fraught at the moment!)

Giles


----------



## Brass_Machine

Giles.... Those look really nice!. Can't believe I missed this thread. Again, everyone is doing amazing work!

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

gilessim  said:
			
		

> Yes they really look nice! ,they should go well with the bases ( no-one made any comment, I hope I didn't p**s you all off with the lack of photos but I'm just going through my 2nd divorce as of a couple of weeks ago, so things are a bit fraught at the moment!)
> 
> Giles



I missed the thread Giles. My past couple of weeks have been pretty rough as well. I was laid off unexpectedly and have been trying to come up with ways to make an income. The IT job market isn't very good right now.

Hope things go better for you!

Eric


----------



## zeusrekning

Giles, Those look great. I think they will look good contrasting with the wood. 
Tim


----------



## joe d

Would the Upshur farm engine be perhaps a little less intimidating for a first go at IC? (certainly seems like it to me... :big

Joe


----------



## JimHs

I'd love to join a team build, but have to finish the house addition first. 

I am part way through building Jerry Howell's V-Twin. It's definitely not a beginners engine. Don't get me wrong, the plans are top notch. It just has a lot of parts, some of which are very time consuming. It also takes some larger chunks of cast iron and aluminum, so the cost goes up. 
Jim


----------



## BobWarfield

Back in the saddle again!  ;D

I spent two hours the other day, breaking 4 1/16" endmills and 1 twist drill trying to get the tap out. Probably should have tried the caustic soda. I never did get it out. Somewhere I read that if a part is easily remade, don't even try to remove a broken tap. Amen!

Now onward! I managed to scrape together 3 hours to work in the shop today. I completely remade the button v-block in that time and tried it out. This time around I made sure the tapping came as early in the project as possible. I turned the blank and immediately drilled and tapped the holes without even parting off the top. Success!

Now, connecting rod fans, let me show you what it's good for. After turning appropriate diameters for the big end, small end, and middle of the con rod, insert it in the button v-block and install on the lathe:






A simple turning operation and voila, you got flats:






Surface finish is pretty decent, and no sign of chatter:






To flip over and do the other side, I use my Helios Planer Gage:






If you're going to make these dad-gum little bitty parts, you need one of these!


----------



## BobWarfield

That now makes 4 pieces of tooling made. Did I need to do that? Probably not. But I now see why Marv has a drawer full of little depth gages and other gadgetry! :big:

I've taken to wearing my head loupe to work on this stuff too. You can set it at a perfect height so I can look through the loupe for magnification, and below it for normal vision.

Okay, now I have all the tooling, my reamers arrived from Enco, I need to figure out my "mass production" routine and grind 'em out.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

Onward!

The first step in the production line is to part the raw stock to useful lengths. For this purpose, I'm doing something that's common practice but new to me. Specifically, I am using a technique that is the manual equivalent of the automated "bar pullers" used by CNC lathes. Follow along with my photos to see how this works:






First thing I did was to cut my original long brass round stock to length. What length? I'm going to be inserting these pieces inside my lathe spindle, so I cut them so that no more than an inch would hang out the back end. That's about 18" for my Lathemaster 9x30 lathe...






Like I said: not too much hanging out the back end. A big long piece hanging out the back unsupported can be very dangerous. Think about the gyroscopic effects: as it spins it wants to throw out away from the axis, but the further it throws, the faster it is moving, making it want to bend even further. Very dangerous! So let's keep it inside ths spindle for the most part. I tested carefully once I had it in there even so to be sure it wouldn't have any tendencies to whip around. Sometimes it is advisable to make up a spindle liner or sleeve to help support the piece inside the spindle...






Next I set up the tailstock with my live center to act as a work stop. To begin, loosen the collet, grab the workpiee, and pull it out until it contacts the stop (live center)...






Tighten the collet, start the spindle, part it off, and do it again. As each part is finished there is a satisfying Klonk! as it drops into the tray below. Not quite as good as "Cha Ching", but it is a happy sound nonetheless...


----------



## BobWarfield

In a very short time, 15 or 20 seconds per piece, you'll have a stack of nearly equal length blanks ready to go. The stub from the first 18" piece is at the bottom, and the remainder of the 2nd piece is at the top. Although I am making 12 connecting rods, I cut 15 blanks just in case some have to be scrapped.

That was a fun process! I've read accounts of CNC lathes printing money doing not a heck of a lot more than that while making simple bushings and such.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Divided He ad

Nice work on the V block BW. I've got to say I have never even considered measuring stock that way... I certainly will in future ;D
I like that planer gauge ugimibob too, looks very useful 

I really want to see these engines, everyones work looks so good ;D 


Ralph.


----------



## SmoggyTurnip

I thought it was a no-no to part off with the end suported?


----------



## DickDastardly40

SmoggyTurnip  said:
			
		

> I thought it was a no-no to part off with the end suported?



I reckon that there may be some conflicting views on this however, I always (and was taught to) use the tailstock with a live centre as puch as possible to support the work; this includes for parting. 

If you are parting a largish diameter unsupported, as the diameter cut by the tool reduces, the free end will start to 'wobble' which can cause the tool to dig in the side of the job, either buggering the tool, marring the finish or adjusting your length ever so slightly. Eventually the wobble will increase to an extent that the job will shear away leaving a big pip on both the job and left-over bar. Supporting with a centre, if possible, allows the cut to continue evenly until the tool either breaks through or the weight of the job overcomes the strength of the diameter left and it drops leaving a much smaller pip.

Being a conservative type, I part by feeding manually at about 200 RPM with loads of coolant. The part always drops and I've never had an issue with anything getting caught on the tailstock. 

This is what works for me, maybe a thread in the tips and tricks section for others to share their wisdom would be timely.

Bob, good work on your conrods and a nice fixture, will have to remember that!

Al


----------



## Divided He ad

Ha ha ha What a muppet I am!! :big:

I spent the best part of an hour looking on the interweb for the button V block and the Ed Dubosky name and I have had a book with his plans and a talk trough written by the man himself on how to use said V block to it's full potential for the best part of 6 months !!! : Found it by accident looking something else up  

I have got to start reading more!! ;D

Ralph.


----------



## BobWarfield

Peeps go both ways on the tailstock issue--there are those who fear the part will jam with the tailstock there and eventually cause a real problem. Accounts certainly exist of this on PM and other places. In the end of the day, it works either way. I prefer to support it if I expect chatter, but there was none here. Also, the exact length need not be very close, nor the finish. Hence this was fast and easy.

BTW, most CNC lathes don't even have a tailstock. Parting without one is common practice, so try it sometime. Just don't do anything too crazy (envisioning a 1" shaft stuck 12" out of the chuck and parted at the chuck: Bad Idea!). See the safety post about "whipping" with stock extending through the spindle--the same could happen here if you let too much stock go unsupported. 

Okay, I have a couple honey-do's and then I'm going to try to get back to the shop and make more progress. 

Cheers,

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

Folks, if you thought it was a no-no to part off without tailstock, wait until you see this next crazy stunt. We're going to turn with the parting off blade!

The con rod has three diameters to be turned:

- "Big End" is 0.250"

- "Little End" is 0.188"

- "Skinny Middle" is 0.125"

The challenge is to do all three diameters with crisp shoulders and in the right places quickly and easily.







One thing I found early on is that there basically is not enough room to use the tailstock. Even sticking the tool way out of the holder, switching from my 1/2" to 3/8" shank holders, and angling the holder, I couldn't get all the way there without running into the live center. Scratch the tailstock!






The good news is I don't have much material to remove, and so hogging isn't required. I can take 0.020" with a < 0.010" finish pass and life is good with my CCMT turning tool and a sharp CCGT insert...






So the first phase was turning to the big diameter: 0.250". The button on the end is from the portion of the original blank held in the collet. We'll flip it around and get that too!






Okay, all the parts have had their big diameter turned, flipped around to finish the big diameter, and then the small end diameter (0.188") was turned. I used a collet stop and turned to the end of the collet. They're not exactly the same length, but we can true that up later...


----------



## BobWarfield

Next up is the hard part: the skinny section between the big end and small end of the connecting rod. I'm going to use a parting blade to do the job. Before I got going with the parting blade, I tuned it up for the purpose. This involved a radius cut on the grinder to get some positive rake (not needed for brass, but I had done it earlier, and it didn't seem to hurt, so I went ahead and listed it here), honing with a diamond hone, and then using the hone to slightly radius the cutting side. You can read full details with diagrams of how I "dressed" the blade on my Parting and Cutoff page here:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/MTLathePartingCutoff.htm






There you can see the parting blade. Note the "hook". You don't really need that positive rake for brass, but I put it on there before this project and it has served me well in other materials. What I'm doing in that photo is touching off on the "Big End" shoulder the side of the blade. I zero my compound DRO, and then turn the crank to measure off the length of the skinny section, allowing for the width of the parting blade:






Next I plunge the blade to cutting depth for the first pass:






Take it easy on the plunge! Very gentle or you'll dig in and wreak havoc. With this parting blade I can easily cut 0.010" and get a fine finish. Trying 0.020" broke the part in half. Your first clue is you can see material building up at the cutting site. In this case, a few 0.010" passes and a finish pass were easy. Power feed worked great. I was wearing a 4x magnification head loupe and disengaging the feed by hand. The magnification really helps on parts of this small size. Accuracy on the rhs shoulder was fine, a few thousandths.

To retract to the right hand shoulder I just used my DTI on a mag base against the tailstock:






Since each part is not situated in the collet exactly the same, and since the collet moves when tightened, you have to rezero the DTI on each part. That's real easy to do since the tailstock ram is on a screw.


----------



## BobWarfield

The result is a con rod blank with nice square shoulders for a minimum of effort. I've still got a few more to do this afternoon!

Next step will be to use the Button V-Block fixture to cut the flats on these. 

Getting close!

Cheers,

BW


----------



## joe d

Almost done:

Had a week off while I waited for a new end mill, it finally showed up on Friday so I got back to work:





All finished machining, one polished up, and (on the right) proof that it's important to count all the turns of the hand wheel if you don't have a DRO: four steam ports in perfect radial alignment to the tapped centre hole that is 50 thou out..... DANG. Sure is going to look pretty in the re-cycle bin!

Joe


----------



## BobWarfield

Joe, I know what you mean on that handwheel business. Several times I'll get in the middle of a complex job, get distracted with something that seems out of whack, and when I go back I've forgotten which turn I'm on. I started writing more stuff down on my note pads as a result!

They say memory is the second or third thing to go, I can't remember which!  :big:

Cheers,

BW


----------



## gilessim

They're looking really good there Bob!, great explanation and I love the trick with the DTI, I've never thought of using it like that!

Giles


----------



## joe d

All Done!





Joe


----------



## Brass_Machine

Hey Joe,

Those look fantastic! The quality of work from the team is AMAZING! to say the least. Bravo!



			
				BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> ...
> They say memory is the second or third thing to go, I can't remember which!  :big:
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BW



Hey Bob.... aren't you on the fifth or sixth to go?? ?? :big: Just kidding ofc!! My memory is going as well... along with my stomach... going out that is  I am sure my eyesight is next 

Eric


----------



## Bernd

The way you guys are polishing those engines we'll have to wear sunglasses to look at them. :big: :big: 

Nice work so far guys. :bow: :bow: Can't wait to see an assembled engine.

Bernd


----------



## Brass_Machine

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> I keep begging for the Duclos Halo on a Team Build. This one seems just as nice, though I can't make out much from the pictures on his gallery. I'm going to keep drawing that Duclos engine's plans in Rhino3D and plan to have it be one of my first projects after I get my mill CNC'd. It'll be fun to watch this build and see the differences.
> 
> Radials are cool!
> 
> Best,
> 
> BW



I love radials. I did a modified Elmer's in Alibre - its in the gallery. Do you mean a Hula Hula engine?

Eric


----------



## BobWarfield

Yep, the Hula Hula. 

Actually, as I look at the Liney engine, it occurs that one way to approach Team Design (something else some have said we ought to explore) would be to start with a proven design and propose enhancements to it. Some might be largely cosmetic, but others could be more significant.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## zeusrekning

Do we have a proposed ship date set?
Tim


----------



## BobWarfield

Very close on my parts. I've got the last couple of con rods to drill, ream, and round over.

I have some polisher media on order. Was going to give 'em a dip in the vibratory.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## zeusrekning

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Speak up and tell us where you are at with your parts.



I'm sitting in my garage ,in upstate SC, just outside of Greenville. :big: :big: Wife says I can be a smart @$$ :

But really , my components are complete other than a final wipe down to get the garage rain off of them.
Tim


----------



## joe d

Tim: You stole my line.... :big:

My engine parts are ready to go, all I need is the address to send them to!

Joe


----------



## Brass_Machine

joe d  said:
			
		

> Tim: You stole my line.... :big:
> 
> My engine parts are ready to go, all I need is the address to send them to!
> 
> Joe



You are in Tim's garage in upstate SC? Tim do you know this?? :big: :big: :big:

Eric


----------



## joe d

Shhhhhhh don't tell him, but that's why theres always extra swarf on the floor in the morning....

joe


----------



## zeusrekning

Joe, If you don't mind put the tools back where you found them when you're done. I knew there was a reason nothing is ever where I thought I left it. I thought it was me just getting forgetfull. ;D
Tim


----------



## BobWarfield

I need to round over the con rods, and then do final polish on con rods and flywheels. Should be ready pretty shortly.

Best,

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

Time for the next installment. Recall we used the button v-block to turn the con rod flats on the lathe with a facing operation. Details are on my web site:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCRevOpenCol2.htm

or here is a pic:







Having done all 12 rods on both sides, our next operation is to drill and ream the large and small ends of the rods. We can once again use our button v-block as a handy fixture, though we shall be moving over to the mill to finish off these rods.

Start by aligning the slot in the v-block with the collet block:






We have to align on 2 dimensions. For the second, I just drop my height gage down on the flat with the v-block loose and tighten it:






Then we install the block in the Kurt vise:






I'm using my Starrett edge finder in that photo to detect the edge in the Y direction.

<continued>


----------



## BobWarfield

We use the edgefinder in X as well:






You can see the edgefinder "kick" in that photo. With the spindle on slowest speed, I advance until the edgefinder kicks. At that point I know it has just kissed the part. Given the diameter of the edgefinder (3/8"), I can now precisely locate the axis of the spindle where I want to drill that hole in the big end.






After writing down the handwheel coordinates, I insert the proper twist drill in the chuck and have at it.






That hole was undersize by design, so we finish off with a reamer. I run my reamers at about 1/3 the speed of the twist drill. 

<continued>


----------



## BobWarfield

10 revolutions of my handwheel, and I am positioned 1.000" down the rod for the small end. Drill:






and ream:






And now, a timesaver. Having eyeballed the hole location and been satisfied, I installed the Kurt vise stop I made:






Now I can remove the collet block, install a new rod blank, and get the whole thing back exactly in the right spot to continue drilling and reaming the remaining 11 con rods. 

If you don't have a vise stop, they're darned handy. I made mine as a fun project to learn how to make split cotters:

http://www.thewarfields.com/cnccookbook/MTMillKurtViseStop.htm

<continued>


----------



## BobWarfield

Next stop is rounding over the small ends. I discussed how I did this with an old drill chuck on another thread:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2094.msg16973;topicseen#new

Stop in over there for the scoop. Here is the batch of con rods:






They could still use a little TLC with my needle files and perhaps some polish, but they're not bad. Here is the rig I use for filing:






Getting pretty darned close to the finish line here!

Cheers,

BW


----------



## bretk

Everybody,


 I was talking to Chuck Fellows re his horizontal single and it struck me, why not consider it for our next team build? It is an IC style engine, with a similar cam actuated valving, nice size and great sound, he is making up drawings from an existing working model, and there are plenty of parts to go around, yet nothing too insanely difficult. It might be a nice warm up for an IC project. I asked him if he would mind if we used it for a team build and he said that would be fine. 

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2088.msg16917#msg16917

Thoughts?????

-Bret


----------



## Jadecy

My 6 bearing blocks are complete. I've got a little anxiety about how well everything will fit together! 

I've checked my parts about a hundred times!!! ;D


----------



## Tin Falcon

Addresses have been sent via e-mail any questions let me know
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon

sent the addresses and distribution info out today via emailI just need wes's and mikes to compete the list. 
Tin


----------



## joe d

Tin:

5 bearing blocks went in the mail this morning. Given the fact that Canada Post was the organization that coined the term "snail mail" you should see them in a week to ten days......

Joe


----------



## Tin Falcon

Thanks Joe will be looking forward to them. 
Tin


----------



## kvom

Having just read all of the threads in this section, I can only say "bravo!"

I found this site from a link at the HSM website. I will be taking a machining course at a local tech college this summer (lathe to begin with, mill in the fall, with others to follow). I'm about to begin building an attached garage/shop, and hope to have it finished by September. I don't have either a mill or a lathe at present, but a good friend has both.

At some point I would be very interested in being part of a team, once I have some more experience as well as the equipment. I became interested in machining as a means to produce parts for automotive uses, but these model engines are fascinating (the small size of the parts is pretty intimidating as well).

Keep up the good work, as I will be "avidly lurking".


----------



## Jadecy

4 bearing blocks went out this morning. Need one more address to send out 5th. I know Tin is waiting on this address so it will go out when he gets the address.


----------



## BobWarfield

Fellas, I'm mostly done on the con rod and flywheels. I need to polish the flywheels, and inspect everything one last time before sending them on. I've got a new job that's keeping me very busy, so it'll likely be a couple weeks yet. Will keep you posted. I assume that since we need to make cranks and so on I'm not holding anyone up too badly.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Brass_Machine

BobWarfield  said:
			
		

> Fellas, I'm mostly done on the con rod and flywheels. I need to polish the flywheels, and inspect everything one last time before sending them on. I've got a new job that's keeping me very busy, so it'll likely be a couple weeks yet. Will keep you posted. I assume that since we need to make cranks and so on I'm not holding anyone up too badly.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BW



I don't think we are holding up yet. I won't be done til next week either.

Eric


----------



## gilessim

I'm done , just need to finish the wooden bases, next week I can mail everything, if anyone knows of some dome head brass wood screws about 1/2" long to fix the engine to the wood base, please let me know, as they're like hens teeth here, I have a few, but not enough for everyone, I'll keep looking ,anyway I'm sure we can get over that!

Giles


----------



## Tin Falcon

Update here:
 Mike is feeling a little better as he is posting some but I received a pm from him a couple days ago that he is still not ready /able to do much shop stuff so will not be making parts for the TB. We do have someone stepping up to make the parts.
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon

Guys seems like things are moving along almost as planned. 
JoeD received the package yesterday.
as far as the cranks GailinNM will be pinch hitting for mike.
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon

Guys looks like things are falling into place set all an e-mail this AM


----------



## Tin Falcon

sent an e-mail today to all team members I think I have all address except Mikes.
Tin


----------



## GailInNM

First off I want to express by best wishes to Mike and wish him a speedy recovery so he can get back to building toys. We all owe a debt to Mike for his efforts in making this site work the way it does. For anyone who does not know it, Mike is the technical expert that keeps this site running and, when practical, upgrades it according to any suggestions or wants that we have. I was most happy to be able to help Mike out in my own small way. 

The crankshaft parts are packed and ready to go out in the morning mail.

I went back to the 3-48 threads on the crank disk and mating crank pins to give a little more bearing surface between the 1/8 diameter on the crank pin and the crank disk. I was concerned about the pins staying perpendicular to the crank disk. Since I was making both parts I figured that no one would care. 

As they might be hard for some to find, I included a 2-56 set screw and the mating 0.035 hex wrench with each set of parts. The set screw is installed in the crank disc as it is so small it might be easy to get lost.

Mentioned in the text, but not included on the plans are spacers for the crank shaft to center it up if necessary. I included 4ea 3/8 x 3/16 x 0.010 PTFE washers as they were easy for me to make. 

The text describes the crankshaft as though it does not have a flat on it for the crank disc set screw to bear on so the crank disc can be rotated to make a fine adjustment on the valve timing. The drawing shows a flat. I put the flat on as shown in the drawing. If anyone wants to adjust the timing, rotate the crank shaft 180 degrees so the set screw is opposite the flat. Doing this will reverse the direction of the engine rotation with respect to the reversing valve position,

Gail in NM,USA


----------



## Tin Falcon

Mike I need your address !! You are still part of the TEAM and will get an engine !!!
the one originally slated for Auction will be yours and will come to you assembled. 
Eric and I kind of made a command decision on this but do not think anyone would have a problem with the Idea. 

As a follow up to this I was wondering I think most of us are doing overruns to insure enough good parts . I was thinking that there could be enough parts kicking around for engine 13 that could be auctioned. Are there enough spares out there?? Or maybe very close just a thought if you have "extra parts" let myself or Eric know
Tin


----------



## Speedy

I despritly want a IC engine, and more so to be part of the team build process. wont be for a while still :'(
have you guys thought of websters 4 stroke? it seems like a nice engine to get a understanding for bigger IC's.
plans are free 8) and im sure he would love to put it up on his site also.

http://home.comcast.net/~webster_engines/

its a messy runner, but it has endless possibility's for modification.
just wanted to throw it out there. 

or even his ngez engine?


----------



## gilessim

Here's a pic of one of the wooden sub-bases, I'll be sending them in the next couple of days, I've been really busy with other stuff, I've had a job to find real brass screws here but I'll send what I've managed to find, I couldn't find dome headed ones. If you decide to use them, you'll need to countersink a bit and also drill the wood (which is VERY hard!) you all may have your own fixings, but I'm sending a few extras for everyone because it's easy to mess up the slots on the screws (and shear them!), just use one or two to make the seat and then put new ones in.






Giles


----------



## joe d

Giles;

Wow, those are looking good. I really like the way you proportioned the round over on the base to that on the wood. Query: what sort of wood is it?

Cheers, Joe


----------



## zeusrekning

Man, These thing are going to be sweet. I think everyones work looks top notch. I think we may prove the nay sayers wrong. I am begining to question the quality of my cylinder now ;D
Tim


----------



## Brass_Machine

I second that.

Amazing work!

Eric


----------



## zeusrekning

I just went out and installed the crank into the bearing block (another beautiful part). It wouldn't slide through easily :-[ I put the crank into the drill press with a little lapping coumpound and after a couple minutes it spins perfectly. The fit couldn't of been better with out being provided together. As I have said before, this is my first model engine so I had no idea what to expect. If I wasn't hooked already I am now.
Tim


----------



## Jadecy

I third that. Beautiful parts Gail! 

I sent your bearing block out yesterday via DHL. I think the bearing blocks I did came out pretty good but I need to work on my polishing skills. From the looks of the other parts I definitely have a lot of room to grow! :bow:


----------



## GailInNM

Thank your for your kind comments gentlemen.

All the packages were mailed Monday, so everyone who is receiving theirs direct should see it by Saturday. Powder Keg, you are the exception. The post office decided that yours should be a First class package and not first class mail. They returned it for additional postage. I think the parts stacked up on each other and made it too thick. It was re-mailed this morning,Thursday, so you will probably get it next Monday. 

I feel bad because I had the easy parts. I never polish except enough to remove the machine marks, and only then if it shows. My parts are mostly hidden so they only got a hint of polishing. I am not good at it so I think that my engines look better with a clean satin finish rather than a poor polish job. This engine surely will be the best polished one in my display case. When the team build was first discussed I would have expected the parts to be machined and only rough polished, not the quality of work that everyone is displaying. 

Tim, I made the crankshaft at 0.1868 diameter nominal. That would leave 0.0007 inch clearance if the bearing holes were spot on, but of course they never are. I normally like to have about 0.0010 to 0.0015 clearance on plain bearings unless they are hardened and lapped, so I set them a little tighter in case the reamer used on the bearings ran a little bit over. Most reamers in brass cut a few tenths over. I figured that if they were a little tight because the reamer was cutting the right size or a little bit under then everyone would do just as you did and polish one or the other until they fit.

The team build is interesting as it compares to what happens in the commercial world where there may be 10 parts being made by 10 different vendors. However, in the commercial world the drawings would have tolerances for all the dimensions, and if the parts are made to print then the parts will fit. Hobby drawings rarely have tolerances and only a nominal size is dimensioned. The hobby machinist is expected to adjust the sizes to make the parts fit on an individual basis. I think hat we can expect to make a few adjustments as we assemble the engines. Most of this will be due to the nature of the drawings. I doubt that there will be ANY problems due to workmanship. 

Congratulations to everyone involved as this all comes together. In particular congratulations to Brass Machine and Tin Falcon for doing the administrative work necessary for this to happen. And finally as we are each doing our individual assembling, keep Mike in mind. I am only here to to help Mike out, not to replace him. After all, nobody can replace Mike.

Am I correct in my thinking that everyone will post photos of their finished engines here? I hope so.

Gail in NM, USA
The later it gets the more long winded I become. Sorry.


----------



## Brass_Machine

Those are good Ideas speedy. I have really been considering Chucks Horizontal Single as well. 

Why can't you be involved in the next build?

Eric


----------



## JMe

Hi
i agree with your choice
ready to start

regards
Jacques


----------



## gilessim

Glad you like them!, the wood is Madagascar rosewood, I made a chess table for someone years ago and this was a piece left over from that.

Giles


----------



## ksouers

Can I play too?

I think the engine choice is great.


----------



## joe d

I'd like to play too! 

Chuck's single works for me, it was added to my "want to build" list as soon as I saw his thread about it.

Joe


----------



## Tin Falcon

My hat is also off to Gail.
He was enlisted as part of the team last minute ,so so speak to pinch hit for Mike then told to sit on the bench again then told he was up to bat. Looks like a home run Gail. I have not opened the package but I am sure everything is in order. 
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon

Giles the bases look great. I am realy looking forward to seeing what these engines look like when assembled. the beading on the edge of the meta l is great. 
Tin


----------



## GailInNM

Giles, The bases are beautiful. You are obviously the right man for the job. A very good match. A good mix between skill and artistic ability. 

Gail in NM, USA


----------



## Brass_Machine

Adding Joe D and ksouers to the list!


----------



## zeusrekning

Jadecy  said:
			
		

> I third that. Beautiful parts Gail!
> 
> I sent your bearing block out yesterday via DHL. I think the bearing blocks I did came out pretty good but I need to work on my polishing skills. From the looks of the other parts I definitely have a lot of room to grow! :bow:



I think the polishing came out fine. If anything there may be some drool marks on it.


----------



## Speedy

Hi Eric. 
still on the hunt for machines 8)
and need to build up some skill


----------



## NickG

Hello, I am new to the forum and just spotted this team build section. The Chuck single looks like a nice engine and makes a nice sound more like an i.c. engine!

Is this team build just to build 1 engine or 1 for each member of the team? What sort of time scales are you thinking of?

Finally, have many people successfully built the Chuck single before?

Thanks,

Nick

North East
England


----------



## Tin Falcon

Nick:
 i co-captained Build 1 now wrapping in build 1 we had 10 members and built 12 engines the extras being for auction and museum/show display.We did a 3 month build time.
I plan on sitting this one out. 
cant answer Q 3
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon

Well what is the status folks. 
I believe all the bearing blocks have been sent out. 
the bases are done. the crank parts are shipped and received. 
I am still making parts life keeps happening here. 
I would like to see all parts shipped by the end of June if possible 
I understand that many of us are "Old farts " with health issues and or day jobs I have both to deal with as well as an active family. Alls I as as we do our best. 
Tin


----------



## GailInNM

The crank parts were all shipped, but not all were received. 

Because of the last change in postal regulations, which not even the PO clerks fully understand, the jiffy pack envelopes are now in a new class of mail. It now costs $1.17 to send instead of the $0.49 of a couple of years ago. I allowed for the increase in rate, but not the new classification so 2 of them were returned for more postage. But most of them got through OK. 

Powder Keg's and Deer-x-475guy's were returned, but have both been resent and should be received about the middle of the week. 

Keep the faith guys. It will all come together soon.

Gail in NM, USA


----------



## Tin Falcon

All the addresses are in Yeah!!!!
Tin


----------



## rake60

I'm loving this thread!

I've been a computer geek since long before the term was coined.
The language was binary. Two possible answers, yes or no designated
by a number 1 for yes and 0 for no. 
X and Y were the input values. 

There were 4 possible answers to any input.
AND, OR, NAND or NOR.
The code for input to output looked like this:

_*x y AND OR NAND NOR
0 0  0  0  1   1 
0 1  0  1  1   0 
1 0  0  1  1   0 
1 1  1  1  0   0  * _ 

I also remember my very first internet communication.
It was one charactor at a time popping up on a black CRT screen
in neon green letters. 100 charactors a minute was FLYING! LOL

Funny thing is a computer can still only give the same yes or no answer
but it can make those choices so quickly that it appears to be a seamless
view of color, sound and image.

I'm sure 20 years from now they will be laughing at what we believe is 
high technology today. I'll be too old by then to argue the point... 

Rick


----------



## bretk

Tin,

 Nice bit of Imagineering 8) Are you sure you don't want to be part of the next build? ;D

I've always wanted to play around with using a pot chuck, Is that a 3C? and if so, where did you get your blank, and how did you go about machining it as I have never used one I was wondering how deep, and are there pre-made spacers that you remove after machining, and do you turn to the exact size you are gripping or how much oversize?

-Bret


----------



## Tin Falcon

Bret:
it is a 3" 3C from a regular e-bay seller Bridgeport 92 or something like that. I inserted small aluminum squares in the three slots then tightened down the chuck. the slots measures .110 so used .100 aluminum. I plan on setting these aside for future use. Because I knew the hole would open up I just went to size. IIRC I went .200 deep and machined a .010 deep groove. I started with a shop made boring bar made of drill rod and finished with my warner co insert HSS boring bar. 
This is my first adventure with a pot chuck also. 
Tin


----------



## GailInNM

Today I received a bearing block from Jadecy. You spent way too much time polishing!! The block looks great. 
Thanks,
Gail In NM,USA


----------



## Tin Falcon

Bret now that i am awake the pot chuck came from Tools4cheap

my 3c hex collets came for the other guy
Tin


----------



## Powder keg

Hey Those are nice looking parts Gail!!! I haven't taken them out of the baggy yet, but I'm positive they will work super!

Better get back out to the shop, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

I'm out drilling holes now) I wont be the guy holding everyone up) I just work better cornered like a rat. 

Wes


----------



## Brass_Machine

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> I'm out drilling holes now) I wont be the guy holding everyone up) I just work better cornered like a rat.
> 
> Wes



OMG!!! He is ALIVE!

j/k... It will probably be me holding everyone up. I hope to ship everything in the next day or two. I have to polish up the cylinder bases and finish the pistons.

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

His parts (and everyone elses) are very nicely done. I only hope mine hold up in comparison.

Eric


----------



## bretk

Thanks Tin!

I am going to order one to play around with 

-Bret


----------



## Powder keg

I am alive Tim)LOL Just been busy. It's getting better though. I took a quick video of the drilling. I have 30 drilled now I'm going to try and finish drilling tonight. It takes longer to take the part out and put a new one in than it does to drill the hole. But, it is still taking a while. I have 100 holes to drill and tap. I hope the video is good? I set up a indicator and used it to drill to depth. The drill chuck is a crappy one that wasn't good for much. It had a straight shank and I had to grind it down to fit into the tool holder. Feed is by hand. I think Bob wanted to see this? Here you go)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azt3kMrXypo[/ame]

Back to the shop, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

Looks good, How did they turn out?

Wes


----------



## BobWarfield

Nice!

Wes, how do you set up the chuck on centerline?

One method I understand is to put a dowel pin in the lathe chuck and align the chuck to that.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

Got mine today. Very professionally done!

Best,

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

Finished the flywheels and con rods this weekend. I need to go get some mailers, but they should go out this weekend or early next week.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## BobWarfield

As mentioned elsewhere, I finished the flywheels and con rods last weekend. I need to get some mailers, and then they'll go out either this weekend or early next week.

Best,

BW


----------



## Tin Falcon

Wes:
 They are turning out nice
finished cutting the slots tonight the first few are a few thousands asymmetrical and the bottoms show some milling marks the slots will not show.I will do some photos tomorrow. Still need to install he handles and make the studs. I made 16 blanks and so for only one is trashed so should not be a problem getting a dozen good ones. 
Tin


----------



## Tin Falcon

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> I'm out drilling holes now) I wont be the guy holding everyone up) I just work better cornered like a rat.
> 
> Wes


*The chips are flying now!!* do not feel bad I am furiously working on the disks still need to do studs and make or scrounge springs. maybe I should look for a dozen click pens @ the dollar store and steel the springs from them. 
Tin


----------



## Brass_Machine

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> *The chips are flying now!!* do not feel bad I am furiously working on the disks still need to do studs and make or scrounge springs. maybe I should look for a dozen click pens @ the dollar store and steel the springs from them.
> Tin



Bah! Go into a commerce bank and grab a bunch of free pens. They have 2 different sized springs in them!

Eric


----------



## Powder keg

All the holes are drilled. I'll tap them this week and when the 4-40 hex screws that I just ordered get here I'll be mailing my stuff off. Tapping will be quick. Then I need to polish them to match the bearings. 

Cheers, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

I knew the deadline was coming but I ended up stalling till the end. I always do that. But it looks like things are coming together pretty nice. I can't wait till the next build)

Wes


----------



## Brass_Machine

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> .... I can't wait till the next build)
> 
> Wes



Dude! What are we going to build for the next one? Check yer PMs... sending you one.


----------



## Brass_Machine

I have another suggestion for the next engine.







This one seems a little simpler to build then Chuck's single. I would like to do Chuck's Single, but I think we should wait a couple of builds for it. 

You can find the plans for the twin HERE. It appears that this engine can be increased in size as a build log HERE States. More details of the valve for the twin HERE in the single cylinder version. The picture is of the larger version.

What does everyone think?

Eric


----------



## Bogstandard

Hi Eric,

Don't want to be involved with the build, but can give you an insight into this little engine you are proposing.

It is not such an easy proposition as you think. A certain chappie I know has tried to build this one to double size (and it really does need to be, as it is too small in its original form). Failure ensued. So unless you have exact drawings for all the dimensions for the larger version, I think the members might struggle with it to get it to run.

The main problem is getting the ball bearing lift at the right time. A few thou out and the piston won't go over TDC or gets blown back the way it came. 

It will also require a fairly high pressure to run, because it has to have the force to open the valves as it comes to TDC against the air being compressed in the cylinder. It is almost a 'set it to run at high speed and leave it'.

It is really an engine for someone who has experience in tweaking to get it to run. Mutiply that by a dozen or so, and you could find yourself in trouble.

Just a suggestion.

John


----------



## te_gui

I likes the look of the little twin myself. It's a few less parts as well. Cylinders looks like a great job for someone with a CNC, I may have some bronze to contribute.

Just my .02

Brian


----------



## kustomkb

I would like to get in on the action, if that is ok.
I am still setting up my home shop but I could still crack off a few pieces.
-Kevin.


----------



## Brass_Machine

kustomkb  said:
			
		

> I would like to get in on the action, if that is ok.
> I am still setting up my home shop but I could still crack off a few pieces.
> -Kevin.



Kevin... You have been added ;D

Anyone else?? Please check the list in the first post to make sure you are there!

BTW... PowderKeg has agreed to Co-Captain this one with me. Lets hear it for Wes!

Eric


----------



## GailInNM

Eric,
I agree with you that Chucks engine needs to mature a little bit more before being used for a team build.

I also agree with Bogstandard that the twin cylinder Kerzel engine in it's plan form is probably too small. Although there are team members that would not have a problem with the 0-80 tapping and the 0.020 holes, there are some that would probably struggle with small parts. I have build a couple of "Bash valve" engines and they do take a bit of playing with to make run properly. And properly does not include slow running. Even the double size engine would take some playing with. 

Sign me up for this coming team build. That is if you will still have me after the above comments. If the list gets too large for the coming project, you can bump me if desired. I always have enough projects going to keep me busy and my feelings won't get hurt. 

Gail in NM, USA


----------



## Brass_Machine

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Eric,
> 
> Sign me up for this coming team build. That is if you will still have me after the above comments. If the list gets too large for the coming project, you can bump me if desired. I always have enough projects going to keep me busy and my feelings won't get hurt.
> 
> Gail in NM, USA



Consider yourself signed up ;D You are a welcome addition (as is everyone) ;D.

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

A couple of suggestions from me...

Elmer's Radial (#11)
Elmer's open column twin (#44)
Bog's open column twin
One of Jan Ridders Flame Lickers. I like the vertical!

Suggestions are wanted and needed. 

Eric


----------



## kustomkb

Thanks !! ;D


----------



## Powder keg

I like the Poppin. I think it would be fun If built twice as big. That would make it about the size of my other fire eater. 

Wes


----------



## ksouers

I'm a bit more partial to steam engines, but open to all designs.

Either of the Elmer's would be good, I'm leaning towards the radial.


----------



## Brass_Machine

ksouers  said:
			
		

> ... I'm leaning towards the radial.



Me too!  would love to have me a radial.


----------



## rake60

Flame lickers are a tough road to go guys.

I've built just almost every engine in Elmer's book and they've all run.

I've built 6 flame lickers.
One runs and one tries to run every now and then.
As for the other 4, they're still works in progress.... 3 years and counting....

Rick


----------



## Tin Falcon

OK here is quick photo. I scrounged through the enco spring assortment pile and looks like I hit pay dirt . I also put a couple of the thumb nuts in the photo. bought a pack of 25 so there are plenty for every one to get one and I have leftovers for other projects. Still need to make the studs.
Tin


----------



## Powder keg

Rick is right about the flame lickers. 

How about this one? I alwayse thought it would be fun. The cam would be a breeze on a CNC.

Wes


----------



## Powder keg

Lookin good!

Wes


----------



## GailInNM

I built a Comber (Elmer #46) engine a number of years ago, about 20 I think. It's one everyone wants to see run. It runs well and there is enough mass is the rotating cylinder that it does not really care if there is a flywheel or not. I helped a friend program his CNC tocut the cam rings for two more. With parametric programing it's only about a dozen or so lines of code. Mine is kind of a "plain Jane" type and building another one, maybe slightly dressed up would be fun.
Gail in NM


----------



## GailInNM

Looks nice Tin. I made a QCTP mount for my Proxxon IB/E rotary tool. Once you have it you find all sorts of ways of using it.
Gail in NM


----------



## bretk

I would also rather go steam, and being about 2/3 thru the Chuck's Horizontal Single, agree it might be a little much for our 2nd build. :-\ 
 I like the steam rotary (Comber) idea, as the oddball steam engines are always fun to watch, Elmer also has # 5 the geared steam engine that is pretty cool, it is fascinating to watch run. 
 I would just want to make sure there were enough non-cnc parts for those of us manual operators to do our fair share. ;D

Just my $0.02 

-Bret


----------



## GailInNM

Bret,
All of Elmer's engines can be built without CNC. Probably most parts are as easy to do manual as CNC. The Comber cam ring is one of the few exceptions. While it can be built on manual machines, as Elmer did, it would certainly be easier on CNC.
Gail In NM


----------



## zeusrekning

Hey guys if we could build a GM 3400 for a '96 Lumina APV I would be more than happy to recieve the extra engine. :big: :big: :big:
Motor blew in my van :'( :'(
Tim


----------



## Brass_Machine

zeusrekning  said:
			
		

> ...
> Motor blew in my van :'( :'(
> Tim



Ouch! Sorry to hear that Tim.


----------



## Brass_Machine

Nice Tin!

Looking good. I am getting very excited about this engine!


On a side note to Gail... Your signature, I try to live up to the expectations of 2 dogs and 1 cat :big:

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

I do like the comber (#46). Do we have someone with CNC to cut the cams? Or is anyone good enough to do it manually? I know I am not 

Eric


----------



## GailInNM

I can cut the cams if desired. 
Gail


----------



## Powder keg

Hey Bob, I just start by Eyeballing it. Then move it back and forth and up and down until it start cutting good. Quick and dirty) It took me longer to type this than to center my drill. 

I set my mill up so i could tap these holes. This picture is fairly self explanatory. I'm holding a tiny vice in my 4" milling vice. The small one has some tiny V guouves that are handy. I used the center in the chuck to locate the hole. I dipped the tap into the oil before each hole. Then cleaned the chips off the tap before the next tap. 





I like these spiral flute taps because the chips come up out of the hole. here is a great picture of what I'm talking about. I have 20 of them tapped now. I'll try to finish them after work tomorrow. Lots of tapping going on here) Tap, tap, tap.





Better get to bed, Work starts at 5 am. 

Later, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

I think the Comber should be it. There is almost no info on it on the internet. This would be a great unusual engine for us. A video would be neat.

Wes


----------



## Brass_Machine

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> I think the Comber should be it. There is almost no info on it on the internet. This would be a great unusual engine for us. A video would be neat.
> 
> Wes



I am in agreement. All else?

Eric


----------



## zeusrekning

Sign me up guys!
Tim


----------



## kustomkb

I like it too, I couldn't find any video or much else either. Maybe we will be the first.
I can do the cnc work or any manual work. 
-Kevin.


----------



## joe d

Works for me. I'd never seen this one before, now that I have, I like it! (last time that happened, I married her :big

Joe


----------



## GailInNM

I have attacked a photo of the engine I built 20 years ago. I oiled it up and ran it on air last night. I was running it without a flywheel. It runs fine down to about 5 PSI and fairly well screams at 35 PSI. It does rattle and clank a little bit as the roller cam followers have too much end play in them, about 0.020. It should be about 0.005 so there is a little knocking. I will fix that before I put it away this time. I have never posted a video, so I really don't know how. I did check out my camera a few years ago to see if it really could make a video and it seemed to work OK, so maybe I can try it with a little hand holding from someone.
Gail in NM,USA

Edit: Couldn't polish then, can't polish now.


----------



## bretk

Gail,

 I see you made the piston/rod as abuilt up assembly as opposed to one pc. I like that idea, 8) it seems like alot of brass to waste doing it the original elmer way. Is your engine sized per the dwg or scaled up? 

-Bret

Vids are just as easy to upload via you tube, I reccomend 30 fpsand 320 image size settings on your camera, that will give a nice 10 sec video.

Let me know if you have any probs


----------



## GailInNM

Bret,
My engine is to print as far as sizes go. 

Yes, I did build up the crankshaft/cylinder assembly. I can't remember right now for sure, but I think that I did three pieces. A 5/8 square brass for the cylinder, a 1/2 inch diameter brass for the valve, and a 3/16 diameter 12L14 shaft. Drilled and reamed the brass parts 3/16 and then fluxed everything and slid them on the well cleaned steel shaft and soft soldered them all together. I would have to pull it partway down to make sure. It's been 20+ years and I can't even remember what I had for breakfast any more. 

While the built up assembly saves a lot of brass, it also saves a lot of time and reduces some of the more awkward turning of doing it Elmer's way. I made a few other changes which I will detail out for the group approval if we decide to go ahead with this engine for the team build, or will put in another thread if a different engine is chosen and "inquiring minds want to know." They are all minor and would not require any redrawing of any parts. There is also one change that I want to incorporate on my existing engine and would outline. Probably only about 15 minutes work to make the part from starting drawing to having the engine running again. 

I created a YouTube account this afternoon and will play with video over the next day or so and if successful I will post here. Thanks for the offer for help Bret. But, I figure that if my grandson can do it, then I should be able to learn how in not more than ten times the time it took him. 

By the way, for those of you looking for more details on the Comber engine on the internet, the actual name was Coomber. Notice the second "o" in the name. Still not a lot of information there. 

Two links are:
http://cedesign.net/steam/coomber.htm
http://www.keveney.com/coomber.html

The second one is an animation of the engine so you can see how it works. 

Gail in NM,USA


----------



## bretk

Gail,

I like the adjustable rollers on Cedges engine (your first link) maybe we need to think about a scale up of this engine?? ??? That is a mighty Bling Rich Rotary 

-Bret


----------



## GailInNM

Bret,
There are lots of bling opportunities even if the engine is kept the same size and none of the operational dimensions are changed.  I too like the adjustable rollers as shown on the first link (Cedges). To do them on Elemer's size engine would require that the cam ring be made larger to allow room for the adjustable portion and the piston rod also increased in length. One minor problem is that the piston rod would need to be threaded right hand on one end and left handed on the other so it would work like a turnbuckle. Otherwise your adjustment would be in 1/2 turn increments of the thread pitch used. Also, on Elmer's version, the roller forks guide the piston to keep the rollers centered on the ring, so the forks can not be rotated. This could be changed, but then there is the additional requirement to keep the cylinder centered on the cam ring. All this is possible, but each change means another place that error can creep into the build. If you make many functional changes, then you are starting over with a new design. I don't think that is a good idea for a team build. Certainly minor changes and bling should be a given however. 

Bret, are you doing your version of Chuck's Horizontal in CAD so that it might be considered for a team build later. You are a little ahead of me in your version, but I am catching up - maybe. The more I build and look at it the more tinkering I think will be required to make it run well over a wide variety of input pressures. This might not make it a good team project. Still it is a fun project. I am documenting my changes in CAD, but only as working files and not finished drawings.

Gail in NM,USA


----------



## Cedge

Just for general information, My Coomber has a small flaw in the design. Apparently the builder miscalculated the main shaft support spacing by a small amount, causing a misalignment of the rotary valve where the shaft end play moves things away from it's proper seat. I've got it on my list of engines needing repair, but haven't gotten to it just yet. 

Elmer's design also appears to be a bit more like the original Coomber design than mine.

Steve


----------



## Powder keg

I would like to see this double sized) I think it would make it look even better. Plus it would have more power. The adjustable rollers would be great also.


----------



## bretk

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> Bret, are you doing your version of Chuck's Horizontal in CAD so that it might be considered for a team build later. You are a little ahead of me in your version, but I am catching up - maybe. The more I build and look at it the more tinkering I think will be required to make it run well over a wide variety of input pressures. This might not make it a good team project. Still it is a fun project. I am documenting my changes in CAD, but only as working files and not finished drawings.



Gail,

I am keeping track of my changes, but not in cad, I am waiting for a licensed version of Autocad 14 from a friend who is changing cad software ;D but until then, I am back to the stone ages of pencil and paper. I ordered a 12 pack of springs in 2 different wire ga. for the internal exhaust valve from McMaster, so if you need some p.m. me your address and I will send you out some. 

-Bret


----------



## Bogstandard

If I may, I will make a suggestion to all the people who want to make things bigger.

Just doubling up makes the build almost impossibly expensive. Just take the flywheel, rather than being 2" diameter, all of a sudden it becomes 4". Just price up the difference in cost of 2" and 4" material. I think you will find it isn't just double. Another example is the main ring, rather than being say 5" overall it becomes 10" and twice as thick. No only the cost issue raises it's head, whoever has to make them has to be able to hold such a size on their machinery.

It is easy to say double up, until you start to calculate how much it will cost you, not only in money but in resources.

John


----------



## Powder keg

Well, I have ten more done tonight. Sure goes slow? Maybe it just seams that way? So far that's 60 holes tapped. 

Wes


----------



## zeusrekning

I am a "build it bigger" guy but John is right. Just for comparison a 2" dia 1" long piece of steel is .9lbs versus a 4" dia 2" long piece is 3.6lbs. 
But all that said , I'm still up for a larger version.
Tim


----------



## Powder keg

I think I have enough bronze to donate for the flywheels. I'll look tonight) I'd rather have a bigger version also. 

Wes


----------



## GailInNM

I am opposed to changing the scale of the build project. I think that the team build concept should be to build a known working design essentially as it was published. Minor changes are fine as long as one of criteria can be met.

First, the change will not affect the making of any other part so everything will fit even if all the other parts are made to print. 

Second, the change can be made with universal agreement without changing the overall function of the parts or design. As an example, on the first team build the change was made to use 4-40 fasteners as they are far more common than the 3-48s shown on the print. even a change as simple as this requires that someone check the print to make sure that head sizes have enough clearance and there is enough "meat" around clearance and tapped holes.

This will give the best chance for success for everyone involved in the build project. If the overall scale is changed, then EVERY dimension on every part will change and introduce a risk for errors when all the parts come together for final assembly. 

If a larger model is desired, I think that a different design should be selected that meets the criteria of size to begin with.

Perhaps in the future a second group, a team design group, could be formed within the team build section. There a design could be scaled, or even a new design generated. That design could then be considered for a team build project. I do think that at least one sample should be built to prove and refine a design before the design would considered for a team build. 

Maybe we need to examine the philosophy of the team build concept a little bit further and maybe even define it more formally. 

Gail in NM,USA

PS: I reserve the right to edit/revise the above after the second pot of coffee this morning.


----------



## ksouers

Well said, Gail. I'm in complete agreement. 

I'm not comfortable at all with re-scaling a design, up or down. With so many parts to be made by different builders there are just too many opportunities for error. I suspect I would be the worst offender.


----------



## Alphawolf45

Initially I was under the impression that a team build would be of an engine that was larger and more complex than an average working guy would want to tackle in his own limited spare time..but Thats not right at all is it?.......But dont'cha think That engine is just too simple?
.


----------



## kustomkb

I was just playing with the coomber (thanks Gail) cam in CAD and got a distance across of 2.5425 and the given height of 2.625
does this sound about right?


----------



## Powder keg

I think this engine is simple enough that between ten guys Scaling it up won't be a problem. We can change the plans and have everyone redline them. I'm positive we can do it. 

Wes


----------



## zeusrekning

Alphawolf45  said:
			
		

> Initially I was under the impression that a team build would be of an engine that was larger and more complex than an average working guy would want to tackle in his own limited spare time..but Thats not right at all is it?.......But dont'cha think That engine is just too simple?
> .



Smaller to me is more complex. My prefrance is the medium sized engine. I would like this one in a larger version. I think it is a unique design. I should be able to scale it up in solidworks if no one else wants to do it. But I am also fine with doing it as is if that is the decided way. I was not very impressed with the Elmers Open Column enigne idea originally but as the build progressed and as I started recieving parts I really started to have a new opinion of it.
Tim


----------



## Brass_Machine

GailInNM  said:
			
		

> ...
> Perhaps in the future a second group, a team design group, could be formed within the team build section. There a design could be scaled, or even a new design generated. That design could then be considered for a team build project. I do think that at least one sample should be built to prove and refine a design before the design would considered for a team build.
> 
> Maybe we need to examine the philosophy of the team build concept a little bit further and maybe even define it more formally.
> 
> ...



Gail,

That idea has been in the works for me since I have had the idea for the team builds. Team Design is next on the plate for me (With Rick's approval). That is something I want to see happen as well. I mentioned the idea a long time ago. I want to see the team build idea work out all of the kinks first. Then get the team design moving along.

I would like to see the team design do things from upscaling builds to designing from scratch builds.

The philosophy of the team build was originally my idea. I wanted people to get involved with one another that goes beyond the board. I wanted people who are new to machining to be able to jump in and learn. I figured it was a good way for newbs and masters to work together and learn new things. Nothing improves your work like making the same piece 10 times in a row.

My opinion is this. The team build works on proven builds with only minor modifications (like the Elmer's OC). We allow for artistic creativity (with the team's approval).

Once the team is comfortable we can move on to larger projects. The smaller engines as well helps control the costs involved.

If anyone has different opinions... lets hear them. 

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

Alphawolf45  said:
			
		

> Initially I was under the impression that a team build would be of an engine that was larger and more complex than an average working guy would want to tackle in his own limited spare time..but Thats not right at all is it?.......But dont'cha think That engine is just too simple?
> .



Please read my reply above.


----------



## Brass_Machine

Another option is too find a larger engine to build. Or even a more complex one. That is why I am asking for suggestions for the build.

I wouldn't mind doing something like one Hamilton Upshur's engines. Or Dulcos or whomever... But as a team member, be prepared because some designs we may have to each buy the plans.

There are some good free ones out there. Jan Ridders has the Linford 2 Stroke Which I would love to build.

Would a more complex IC motor be our speed? I am more than willing to try.

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

What about Jans Atkinson 4 stroke

Eric


----------



## kustomkb

I prefer a stand alone engine that doesn't need a compressor and haven't tried building a boiler for lack of soldering experience. I would love to build an IC. My hoglet has been on hold for a while.


> But as a team member, be prepared because some designs we may have to each buy the plans.


I was wondering about this, are Elmers engines not copyright since Modeltec went under? Are his books still available.


----------



## Brass_Machine

kustomkb  said:
			
		

> ... was wondering about this, are Elmers engines not copyright since Modeltec went under? Are his books still available.



The copyright owner has created several Yahoo groups dedicated to Elmer's engines. I don't have the links handy, but when you join the group (it is free) you have access to download the plans. So while they are still copyrighted, the owner is giving back to the model community by offering them for free.

Eric


----------



## Brass_Machine

BTW... I have changed the poll. 

One of the great things about the team build is the input from the team.


----------



## Bogstandard

> The philosophy of the team build was originally my idea. I wanted people to get involved with one another that goes beyond the board. I wanted people who are new to machining to be able to jump in and learn. I figured it was a good way for newbs and masters to work together and learn new things. Nothing improves your work like making the same piece 10 times in a row.
> 
> My opinion is this. The team build works on proven builds with only minor modifications (like the Elmer's OC). We allow for artistic creativity (with the team's approval).



Eric, that is the way to do a team build.
A team should consist of people of all capabilities, going at the pace of the slowest and least experienced of the team. Not let it turn into a team of elitists and 'I wants'.

This is a site for learning , friendliness and help, not a challenge to all except the experienced.

BTW, the suggestion of using my plans would be of no use for a team build, as the build relies upon making things to fit, before going onto the next bit. It is designed to be built by a beginner, but allowing for a lot to go wrong along the way, and by a bit of dodging and fiddling, almost guaranteed to have a complicated looking, running engine at the end of it.

John


----------



## GailInNM

Eric,
I agree with your team build philosophy as outlined in reply #35. 

I am up for almost anything the team would like to build, simple or complex. About the only limitations I would like is that the project not be so complex that it will take more than 6 or 8 months to finish and that there be parts involved such that all skill levels can participate.

All of us have personal situations that change. For some, interests change also and they might not want to continue or be tied down with a very long project. 

Remember, this is all for fun. When it quits being fun then it's time to quit doing it. 

Gail in NM,USA


----------



## bretk

Eric,

I really like that Linford 2 stroke!  ;D I have never built an IC engine, and always wanted one, like a Duclos Odds and Ends. I would be willing to try. And with this list's braintrust, I am sure we could accomplish most anything. 

I would also be happy with our original choice, so either way count me in 

Whatever we do, it sure would be neat to have a display of our team builds at next year's NAMES show!

-Bret


----------



## kvom

A few newbie thoughts:

It seems to me that the complexity issue is irrelevant as long as there are enough "simple" parts for us beginners and that there are enough experts to do the hard bits.

That said, if there are too many parts then the odds of one or more not fitting are increased, as is the chance that the engine may not operate when assembled. Certainly the experienced guys could make it work, but any post-assembly tinkering may be beyond the capabilities of newbies.

The current build means everyone received all the parts and assembles the engine. An idea might be to have one or two of the experienced people receive parts first, put them together, and ensure that either the engine works, or some parts need rework, or at least what assembly tinkering might be needed.

I would really love to participate in the next build, but since I start my lathe class in 2 weeks I doubt my skill level will be up to par. I am looking forward to build # 3 though.


----------



## Brass_Machine

I emailed Jan for copies of the plans. As soon as I have them we can decide.

Is anyone going to drop out if we do an IC engine?


----------



## Powder keg

I think there is room for you Kvom. We can find something thats easy for you to do. The best way to learn is to start turnin handles. If you run into troubles, many here, will come to your rescue) Don't be afraid to try.

My feelings are we should get a couple simpler engines under our belt before we start doing complex engines. I know they are just pieces. But we shouldn't get the wagon in front of the horses. 

I am noticing that this engine will be way better than if I had built it myself. The bearing blocks are so polished that I'm going to have to spend extra time polishing my pillars. I don't want to be outdone, so my pieces are going to be better than anyone elses, seems to be how this is going. I think the engines will reflect it also.

I looked, I have enough bronze shaft to build the flywheels double sized if we want to do the coomber engine) I'll donate it to the cause if we decide to go that way. 


Hope you decide to join us kvom, Wes


----------



## ksouers

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> I emailed Jan for copies of the plans. As soon as I have them we can decide.
> 
> Is anyone going to drop out if we do an IC engine?



I'm still in no matter what we build. A multi-cylinder inline steam or Hodgson Radial, I'm in till the end.


----------



## joe d

I'm in too, no matter which way we go, I've enjoyed the first build, learnt a lot.

Joe


----------



## Powder keg

Well, All 50 pieces are drilled and tapped. All I have left is to polish them up. (to match the bearing blocks) then wait for the bolts. They should be here this week though. These have been fun parts. I got to try out some things that I've been rolling around in my head. It's always good when your plans work out, mine don't all the time.


----------



## Brass_Machine

Soooo... we build the coomber for a 3 month build and then build on of Jan's IC's?

I think that is a good solution.

Eric


----------



## Powder keg

Are we voting? I'll be happy to do whatever the group wants)

Wes


----------



## joe d

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Soooo... we build the coomber for a 3 month build and then build on of Jan's IC's?
> 
> I think that is a good solution.
> 
> Eric



Eric, you're a genius! Reset the vote machines....

Joe


----------



## GailInNM

You think it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks? Try teaching old men. 
This is my first attempt at posting a video EVER.
It is the Coomber engine that I posted a photo of back a few pages in this thread. Some people had asked for a video back then.
Turn down your sound as the shop was not very quiet.

[youtube=425,350]f_KaGygrND0[/youtube]


----------



## te_gui

I am also one of those folks up in the air as far as size. I have full size machinery available so size is not an issue. We are a large fabricated products company (forklift attachments) so scraps and off cuts are easy to come by, once we decide on a direction, then the scrounging can start. If I had my druthers I wouldn't build anything that used any smaller then a 1/4-20 bolt. I can power tap those all day long. I also have CNC mills and surface grinding equipment so lots of options here. I kind of like the IC idea as well, no air/steam supply required.

Brian


----------



## NickG

I agree with John also, why does the engine need 35 psi to run? That is an incredible amount for a small engine and suggests that if something is slightly out, it won't run at all. Can I ask what was built as the first team build? 

I think for this one it would still need to be something with a proven track record, something that we know is going to work, even if there are some small errors. I would suggest something like a simple slide or piston valve steam engine or are the members of the build wanting something more challenging this time?

Nick


----------



## NickG

I think Jan ridders pressure controlled two stroke might be the best bet for a first i.c. engine. The only thing requiring a cam & timing is for the ignition.

By the time you are on to this, I may have had a crack at this engine myself and would know some of the ins and outs of it.

Nick


----------



## Brass_Machine

Gail,

That video is rather neat. I like the action of that engine.

Posting youtube videos is easy. In the url for the video, copy everything after the "=". In your case, it is f_KaGygrND0 that you are copying. 



		Code:
	

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_KaGygrND0


Click the youtube button. It is in the row right above the smilies, second from the left. When you do that, you will get the folling code:



		Code:
	

[youtube=425,350][/youtube]


At that point, paste what you copied in:



		Code:
	

f_KaGygrND0


Then you are done ;D

Eric


----------



## kvom

I guess I will volunteer for something really easy, esp. if the build period is pretty long. I will ask the instructor if I could use one of the school lathes out of school, or even as a learning project in the class.

I also have a friend with a 12" Sheldon and lots of tooling, plus a Bridgeport, and I'm sure I could use his gear if needbe.


----------



## kvom

Sign me up for a dead simple part


----------



## GailInNM

Eric,
Thanks for the video assistance, and for cleaning up my post for me. Maybe next time I can do it on my own. 

It's hard to believe that I have become such an appliance operator of computers. In the early 70's I designed and built a PC before there were any around. An 8008 based machine with a clock rate of 350 kiloHertz. Then wrote an assembler for it which the was used to write a Basic compiler of sorts called GOSUB. That stood for Gail' Own Screwed Up Basic. Things have progressed from there, but I still dislike Windows so much that I avoid learning any more about it than necessary. The computer I use for most of my design work is a purpose built machine running DOS 6 in native mode with a 2.3 GHz AMD chip running Autocad 12. You would not believe the performance as compared to running Windows based ACAD 14 and 2000 on my Windows based machine. Any how, wrong thread for this kind of nonsense.

Glad you enjoyed the video. I will do more now that I know how. Thanks again.
Gail in NM


----------



## Brass_Machine

I was talking to Powderkeg today... He has the bronze to donate to the flywheel cause if we decide to double up the engine. I am sure that either myself or Zeuzrekning can do the drawing and model it in 3D for us.

So double it up and make it a larger piece?

Eric


----------



## Powder keg

Glad you decided to jon us Kvom! I think you'll do fine. If you have any problems just ask)

Wes


----------



## zeusrekning

Double it. If we run in to any issues drawing it up I'm sure we can get help from the guys here.
Tim


----------



## CrewCab

I'm watching this thread with interest gang and really looking forward to seeing what you go for,

Just a thought from a newbie, "doubling up" ......... are you likely to run into some issues with bolt sizes and clearances etc , do 3mm bolts really need to be 6mm  ............. and .......... 

...... for instance, if you double up a a 1/2" bore cylinder with a 1/8" wall do you need a 1" bore cylinder with a 1/4" wall ....... I would have thought the wall thickness would only need to increase a little ??? 

 just a couple of thoughts, please feel free to ignore me if this is a load of crap 


anyway, main point, can you take care of this at the drawing stage or would "doubling up" be better going to a design team first, then built a bit later, once any snags are ironed out.

CC


----------



## Brass_Machine

Engine for this team build will be the coombers. After we finish this one, we will do a longer build over fall/winter for an IC.

Now... do we double it up?

Eric


----------



## Powder keg

Remember, I'm donating the bronze for those 4" flywheels) I might even have some aluminum plate for the cam ring) I put in my vote...... Make her big!!!!  Even though it's still won't be that big of an engine, with a 3/4" bore. 

Later, Wes


----------



## zeusrekning

CrewCab  said:
			
		

> anyway, main point, can you take care of this at the drawing stage or would "doubling up" be better going to a design team first, then built a bit later, once any snags are ironed out.
> 
> CC



This is what I would like to do. Have it scaled up and make fresh , mabey even toleranced , drawings. That may be a little wishful but I would not want or expect everyone to try and scale up the parts individually.
Tim


----------



## Powder keg

Of coarse, Tim. They need to be re dimensioned and sent to everyone to be redlined and have all the foreseeable trouble spots fixed. I think we need to incorporate adjustable rollers into the design also. This is such a simple engine that I don't see many problems. 

Wes


----------



## zeusrekning

Powder keg  said:
			
		

> Of coarse, Tim. They need to be re dimensioned and sent to everyone to be redlined and have all the foreseeable trouble spots fixed. I think we need to incorporate adjustable rollers into the design also. This is such a simple engine that I don't see many problems.
> 
> Wes



Keeping in mind there are so many newbies in the build including me with steam, it may be nice to have some input from other members of the board. But I just remember Gail has built one of these before
so that will be a big help.
Tim


----------



## bretk

If we double it up it gives us a lot more possibilities for adjustment and fine tuning, like adjustable rollers as opposed to having wedge them and solder them in place during final fit up. It seems like a much more elegant solution. Looking at the photos of how the first team build is coming, this engine would be a real showpiece at 2x scale! ;D 

-Bret


----------



## GailInNM

OK, time to see if I can irritate Eric again. I tried a couple of times, but he is too good natured. The votes seem to be split about half and half with the majority abstaining. 

How about we build a Big Coomers AND a Small Coomers. The Coomers as shown by Elmer only has a a dozen different parts if built to print and 16 the way I built it. Most of them are simple and would easily fit on the smaller machines. It could be a shorter term project primarily for a small group of beginners with none to a few engines under their belt. Of course more experienced builders would be welcome to join in if they wanted.

None of the parts require CNC. The cam ring can be made quicker on CNC, but I have a much easier way than Elmers to make it on a manual machine if someone wanted to. There are only a few changes that I would like to see made to the design, and mostly they are to make machining easier. Even if no changes are made, the engine will run fine. 

I would be glad to head up the Small Coomers group, under Eric's guidance and supervision of course, if it were desired. Of course there would be no reason that people could not participate in both groups if they wanted. My guess is that the Small Coomers group would be finished before much metal was cut on the Large Coomers. I would probably like to participate in both groups, but mostly I don't want to see any beginners left out.

Let me know what you think. Of course Eric has veto power if he does not want to see the group split, and that is as it should be. After all, the team build all started with him and we should thank him for doing so.

Gail in NM, USA


----------



## te_gui

I'm in for doubling as well, seem like there would still be smaller pieces with the glands and things that folks with smaller equipment could contribute. I haven't really sat down and studied the plans with an eye for scaling but looks fairly straight forward

Brian


----------



## Powder keg

Yesterday I started polishing. These take some time to do. That form tool was top quality. I honed the edge with a stone so it would leave as few tool marks as possible. But it still left some. Mainly on the concave portion. To prepare it for polishing I had to first emery the marks out. Then I hit it with some scotchbrite. The stuff you clean your pots and pans with. Then I used some Mothers polish on a disposable shop rag. This made a mirror finish on these little parts) I'll post some pictures later)

Wes


----------



## Powder keg

Those are great!!! I'm excieted about this engine! i think it will be the nicest one that i have. That wood looks nice also.

Thanks, Wes


----------



## Powder keg

Great show Bob!


----------



## Twinsquirrel

I'm in awe, you make it look easy. Great pics and narrative too


----------



## BobWarfield

Squirrel, I wish I could say it felt easy. Took me way longer than I would have liked, but I learned a lot of new tricks, so I regard that as valuable.

Cheers,

BW


----------



## Dick L.

Good morning, I'd like to get in on the build if there is still room. I'm new here but I have some experience in model building (simple ones)  . I have a lathe and a mill.
       Dick


----------



## Brass_Machine

Added you to the rollcall, Dick.

Eric


Edited due to lack of sleep! :big:


----------



## zeusrekning

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Squeezed you in Dick.
> 
> Eric



Now come on? I know you had to of read that :big: :-X
Tim


----------



## Brass_Machine

Man...

I was going on 36 hours with no sleep...

Now I know where your mind is. :big:

Eric


----------



## CrewCab

Brass_Machine  said:
			
		

> Edited due to lack of sleep! :big:



 :big: ;D :big: ;D :big:

 CC


----------



## Dick L.

OK I just want to stay involved now that I'm in. ;D I read this entire thread and the Combers sounds great. I'll go with doubling and if the consensus is for both that is fine too. When do we start? Who going to distribute the parts/prints to the participants? When done do we ship one to each person or all to one location? Now your getting the questions! ;D 
               Dick


----------



## Brass_Machine

Dick L.  said:
			
		

> OK I just want to stay involved now that I'm in. ;D I read this entire thread and the Coomers sounds great. I'll go with doubling and if the consensus is for both that is fine too. When do we start? Who going to distribute the parts/prints to the participants? When done do we ship one to each person or all to one location? Now your getting the questions! ;D
> Dick



We will be doing the parts assignments this week. Depending on your location will depend on shipping. We have set up a system for shipping with people who are not in the US.

I will explain more later 

Eric


----------



## Powder keg

The only reservation I have with 2 teams is I don't want anyone building parts that they aren't comfortable with. Other than that, It would probably be OK. I just want everyone to have fun)

Wes


----------



## Dick L.

Waiting patiently ! ;D
        Dick


----------



## Brass_Machine

I don't want 2 teams for basically the same reasons Wes pointed out. If it comes down to it, we will just build a to scale version and not mess with up scaling it.

Eric


----------



## te_gui

Could we get a recap of who all is participating in this build. I think I was in way at the beginning, basically too lazy to sort back through the thread. I am looking forward to the ride.

Brian


----------



## Tin Falcon

Hey guys: 
Started to put the parts together that I have. I will say I am very impressed. I did have to clean a little metal polish out of the block and the holes in the metal base need the countersinking deepened a little and pilot holes need to be drilled in the wood base. The fit and finish on these parts are awesome you guys rock. 
The crankshaft to block fit is perfect as is the piston cylinder fit. This engine is going to be a great runner as well as eye candy. 
I still need to finish the reversing valve parts and and we are still waiting on columns and fittings. 
















Cant wait till we can get all the parts together and put some air to it. 
Tin


----------



## chuck foster

i for one would be real happy to have a connecting rod that looked like that  8) ;D

are they going to be cnc'd ?

chuck


----------



## ksouers

Well, I finally got a chance to start on the cylinders today. Work has really been interfering with my real life lately.

Anyway, material arrived a couple weeks ago. I started cutting some blocks and facing them off to square corners and parallel sides.

I started facing them in the 4-jaw on the lathe but the first one came out slightly crooked so I just chucked them up on the mill. It still had plenty of meat on it, so no scrap yet.





8 little bundles of brass. These things sure are tiny! I'll have to get a close up with something for reference.





The nice thing about these cylinders is they are nice and symmetrical. Once you get set up, drill one hole then flip it to drill the other.





That's it for now. More tomorrow.


----------



## Dick L.

I was figuring out the remaining steps I have to do on the bearings and when I got to the oil cup holes I realized that on the large one that houses the valve spool I will short circuit the flow if I drill thru for the oil cup. I can maybe do a blind hole bottom tapped with a thread or two. The other way around would be to move one or the other off center. (oil cups or valve cuts and ports) Any thoughts on this?
            Dick


----------



## ksouers

Finally got to spend a bit of time in the shop yesterday morning. The weather here was absolutely beautiful, so before getting the yard in order I stole about an hour to get things moving along on the project. It's not much, just drilled some more holes.

This hole is at a 15 degree angle so I used the angle block I made earlier to set it up. The entry point is at the edge of the cylinder. Once that was located I used a 1/16 inch end mill to make a flat spot for the drill then poked a hole in the brass. This hole needs to meet up with the hole in the face so it was a bit fiddly to find it, but once found I could set the depth stop. Then it was simply a matter of turning the block over to drill the other side. With the vise stop and angle block each piece was easy to drill.


----------



## kf2qd

Hard dives (& CD drives) use a brushless motor. Same basic idea as those nice brushless servo motors we all wish we could have a set of. A brushless motor would make a nice spindle drive motor, and in fact, modern cnc machines use brushless motors for axis and spindle drives. Machine at the new job has a 12,000 RPM direct drive spindle. Most of teh others are slower speed...

Brushless motors and contollers have excellent speed and position control with good torque characteristics from low speed to high speed. 0 - 5000 RPM in a relatively inexpensive package.


----------



## Kludge

kf2qd  said:
			
		

> Hard dives (& CD drives) use a brushless motor.



Hmmm ... for a really small lathe spindle, one that spins up to 7200 rpm (fairly common these days) geared/belted down to around 1800-2400 rpm (easy numbers - 4:1 & 3:1) although I've seen some for model airplanes that can spin a really wicked prop that would probably have oodles (Doncha just love highly technical terms? ) of torque.



> Brushless motors and contollers have excellent speed and position control with good torque characteristics from low speed to high speed. 0 - 5000 RPM in a relatively inexpensive package.



Okay, so brushless motors in a neat closed loop with the spindle seems like the winner here.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Kludge (WH7HG, ex-K3MXO)


----------



## kf2qd

Got the tools so what are you gonna build?


----------



## Brass_Machine

I need the addresses of the following two members:

te_gui
bretk

Guys, I need your addresses and for you to confirm you are still involved.

Thanks!

Eric


----------



## Davyboy

Why would anybody call this a Swedish Endmill?









Because the other ones are Finnish!


----------



## moconnor

Hello Shred:

If you go to: http://www.wentztech.com/metalworking/DieFiler/DieFiler.html you will find a manual for your die filer scanned in PDF format.

I also recently bought one of these machines and found this information on the PM Board in the Manuals Section. If you go to the Practical Machinist website you can find this there in addition there is a thread with some more information on these die filers referenced there. Hope this helps.

I think you will be glad you brought it home as they are a beautifully made die filer.

Regards,
Mike


----------



## Tin Falcon

Well in case you have not figured it out by now this has turned into a build blog.
I realized I need some more wire etc to build this to my liking and rely want to push forward. So decided to do a temp wire up to get things going. For now am just concentrating on getting the x-y axis going with the factory lead screws. will probaly order the ball screws in the next week or two. 
Not sure if I am being lazy or wise but plan on getting the cnc going to finish the main Z axis mounting plate. 
so today's progress:
power supply wired
gecko wired 
e-stop box drilled e-stop button wired
x-axis motor wired 

I kept the face plate of the old XT power supply so plan on using the input power plug the switch and the fan but will hook them up later. I am glad I have had to solder up a few DB9 connectors at work in the past few months the practice has come in handy. 
Tin


----------



## potman

Another question that came to my mind was "Why was steam power so prevalent for so long?".

My answer: Every historic successful engine that I know of uses a pressure difference to create mechanical motion. It is very simple to build moderately high sustained pressures just by boiling water. All one needs is a closed container and a fire. Maybe later the thermodynamic advantages of steam over air became important but in the beginning I think it was just because it was so simple to develop pressure with steam.

Or do I have it all wrong?

earl...


----------



## bob ward

Dig through this site - backyardmetalcasting.com . There is a lot of good info available, and many of the guys seem to achieve good results with little expenditure.


----------



## bob ward

If I'm doing a machining operation for the first time, or its a 'one chance only', I usually do a dummy run on pieces of scrap.

I'm not playing, I'm experimenting. ;D


----------



## kf2qd

I believe that you want to use the fine thread drywall screws and a decent cordless drill with the torque set right.


----------



## JackF

Phelonius,
  Most if not all machine tool retailers give them out for free. Check with the one nearest you. The Marshalls store near me has them and they always have a lot of stuff on their bargain table. 

Jack.


----------



## Richard1

I've got it home now and checked it more carefully. The wheel is 7.242 inches or 184mm so using the formula Mod = OD /(N+2)
it seems that it is 2 Module gear. I presume the formula for the pitch of the worm is Mod * pi which gives 6.283mm pitch. How can I set this up on an imperial Myford Super 7 with QC box? 4.043 TPI


----------



## djc

Richard1  said:
			
		

> ...it seems that it is 2 Module gear. I presume the formula for the pitch of the worm is Mod * pi which gives 6.283mm pitch. How can I set this up on an imperial Myford Super 7 with QC box? 4.043 TPI?



Buy a proper lathe that uses change wheels instead of a gearbox? 

Because the pitch you are cutting is greater than that of the leadscrew, you may have to (back) drive the spindle via the leadscrew instead of the more normal spindle-drives-leadscrew arrangement.

Not much help for a gearbox model, but at http://metal.duncanamps.com/software.php you can find software that will give you change gear combinations for any pitch.

Alternatively, set the gearbox for 4tpi and use change gears that give you a ratio of 4.043/4.000 . http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/cfCALC.html will give you 94/93 as a good approximation.

----------

Added 24h later: Also, if you buy Martin Cleeve's superb book, 'Screwcutting in the lathe' ISBN 0852428383, pages 56-57 will provide every bit of information you will ever need. Drop me a PM and we can arrange some method by which you will receive the pages cited...


----------



## bob ward

While not wanting to detract from the single pointing focus of this thread.

If you are having trouble getting a die to start straight, you need one of these chuck held die holders. This one uses 32mm hex that I had on hand, the body is 60mm long and is bored to a depth of 50mm. Spindle is 16mm.

Leave the chuck just loose enough that you can turn the holder by hand or spanner. 





edit. Added first line. Where's my manners!


----------



## kd7fhg

Hello all! 
I have been a silent member for awhile,
Been machining for about 4 years, specilizing in turning good metal into scrap.
Just thought I would say Hi!
KD7FHG


----------



## Maryak

KD7FHG

Welcome to our forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Best Regards
Bob


----------



## rake60

At the end of a shift one of the older machinists was at odds with an inspector.

Machinist:
*You know I saw a job posting where you could really excel.
That big grocery wholesaler is looking for someone capable of
sorting the fly s#!t out of the black pepper.*

Inspector:
*Well they I hear they are also looking for certified butchers.
With the years of documentation I have you'd be a shoe in!*

At that point I decided to wait until I got home to wash up and exited the
locker room.
 Rof}

Rick


----------



## kf2qd

Before you get rid of it i would love to see some pictures of a pegboard lathe. Never heard of one before so it would fill in one of those places in my memory that just needs to have some info/knowledge of questionable value stuffed in it. (otherwise known as curiosity)


----------



## kf2qd

For its size it has to run extremely fast to get that kind of power output. And how do you tie onto that engine to use the power without twisting the housing off.


----------



## kf2qd

Interresting. I think I can figure out some of the logic to the pegboard from the picture. An interresting solution to an automatic machine. Did it have adjustable stops on the ram like a turret lathe?


----------



## kvom

I put together a new workbench for one side of the garage nearest the mill. The frame is held together with Simpson metal ties and about 100 screws. I have built a workbench and some shelving before with these brackets, and they work well.

The top is 9' x 26" by 5". I got it from a cabinet maker locally who had built it for a bankrupt homebuilder. The front, back, and sides are maple, with the top and bottom being 1" thick MDF. I'd estimate it weighs about 120 pounds. My other workbench has a butcherblock top with the vise and arbor press bolted to it. This one will be used for lighter duty work.

I followed Marv's specification as to the height, which is 42", for comfort when standing. I will add a half-depth shelf underneath for extra storage. Total cost was about $130.


----------



## Kermit

http://www.freewebs.com/indianarog/allotherengines.htm


Scroll through this site for awhile, Get comfortable; you might be looking for a long time! Beautiful examples of kit engine builds and restorations

Kermit


----------



## rake60

Welcome to HMEM

Rick


----------



## Kermit

So I got a disk from Aussieland ;D AND it doesn't work :-[

TurboCad is not to be. Jack if you read this: The disc looks like someone spit on it and wiped it with their shirt before putting it in the mailer...  The computer simply does not recognize that a disc is even present in the drive.


SO I never unloaded TigerCAD and have been playing with it for several weeks now. and I'm really starting to like it. maybe its because I've never used a CAD program before. ???

Just some things my brain made me type,
Kermit 

Edit: I'm adding the latest experimental stage of my drawings for the vertical Osc build. This was done with CutePDF(another free program), and it's in Arch D scale so Zoom in on it for detail. 


View attachment Vert Osc 1 Cyl_REVB.pdf


----------



## rake60

We need to be careful with our shop dogs.
Some breeds are listed as being dangerous.
Our new boxer is a breed on that list along with rottweilers 
and the MOST dangerous the pit bull terrior.

Small children should NEVER be left alone with these dogs.
One irresponsible dog owner did exactly that!
The results were horrific!

Please don't allow this to happen to YOUR home or shop!







Rick


----------



## Majorstrain

> Get??? Make you mean - they are a pleasant little exercise and you can make what you want, not what some factory thinks you want.



I'm with Tel, I bought an R8 shank slitting saw arbor that had spring loaded center sleeves to take varying saw hole sizes. The two issues I had were that with the small saws (2 1/2 dia) the holder reduces the possible depth of cut too much and the sleeves are not the correct size for imperial saws (OK for metric). That means the saw wont sit on center and gives an interrupted cut.

I'll be making some dedicated straight shank arbors for the 3 blades I have.

Cheers 
Phil


----------



## deere_x475guy

Ok I have the cam completed. I had to change it up a bit so that I had a short 1/2" shaft to one side so I could press it into the gear I had made several years ago when I was playing around making gears.
Here is the gear:




Here is the cam on the mill:




I have the gear and the cam on my arbor press and will press the cam into the gear:




Now pressing the bearing into the cam (both sides)





That's it for now. I thought I had taken a pic of the bearings pressed into the cam but I guess not. I will take one and update later.

Next is to finish up the flat plate work.


----------



## radfordc

I finished all the machining of parts and assembled the engine. Now I need to get it running.

Charlie


----------



## cobra428

Hi Guys
I'm trying to post my first vid. It's an Mpeg, but photobucket won't take it. Where do I go and or what do I do???? Create a URL some place else for vids??
Tony


Never mind, I think I've got it. PBuckets help is pretty good!


----------



## kf2qd

All you have to do to get rid of the heat is turn the reflector so the sun isn't hitting it and the heat source (most of it anyway...) is no longer a problem. Have you ever cooked over a campfire or used a propane torch? same kind of danger, just took a bit longer getting fro solar to heat...

Starting to sound like those paranoid safety freaks that take everything away that might injure someone. (or maybe a lawyer) Have us all living in rubber rooms and then wonder why we all die from stress.


----------



## steamer

Geez George...been working on my boat and just saw this!


Damn!!

Beautiful!!!!!


Dave


----------



## kf2qd

Don't get too stressed out about those finishes. YOu can get a GOOD SMOOTH finish by polishing with some 400 grit emery paper. You are looking for a SMOOTH surface that will not wear out the bearing and that can have a nice film of oil cling to it. 

It just wants to be smooth and shiny.


----------



## kf2qd

One that I have used is PDF Creator. Will at least print to 8.5 x 11 and 11 x 17. Installs as a printer and lets you change the file name.

http://www.pdfforge.org/


----------



## kf2qd

All I have ever used is center drills...


----------



## Majorstrain

Here's the info off the Aussie_9x20_owners yahoo group. (used with permission)

*The Group meets on the third Sunday each month (this month Sunday 21st JUNE,
2009) - at:

McDonalds McCafe
Corner Canning Highway and Berwick Street
Victoria Park
Western Australia

at about 7.00 pm

Turning, milling, welding, CNC, EDM, laser cutting, casting, electroplating,
anodising, group projects, bring show-and-tell, suggest group projects, etc

BYO (buy your own) coffee & cakes.

Phone me on 0412 768 348 if you need more info

All welcome
Jack*

Hope to see some of you Perth guys there, I'll bring my QCTP project.
Cheers
Phil


----------



## kf2qd

The one shop I worked in that machined Magnesium had a bucket hung on a post next to the machine with a compound they called Purple K. Was only for magnesium fires.


----------



## zeeprogrammer

Crap crap and crap. Beet! That is just so wrong and disappointing.
Oh please Mr Moderator correct that or tell me how.
Bummer.

Glad you enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun.

Ah the words of the great bard come to mind...

"Methinks you protest too much."

[EDIT: Well I did mention the experiments. How can anyone expect me to type under these conditions?]


----------



## the engineer

hi hope this works top one image shack bottom one u tube cheers L side flywheel retapered since due to wobble
http://img531.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copyofvideotsla5.flv
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWGalK2Q1IQ[/ame]


----------



## deere_x475guy

I decided it was time to move the air conditioner to a wall. I had one wall yet that didn't have wall covering on it, just house wrap on the one side and plastic on the other with insulating in between. I used metal studs for the interior walls and I never did care for them. I decided to buy a couple of 2x4x10 studs and replace the metal studs with these where the air conditioner was to go. Well one thing led to another and the next thing I knew I had all the house wrap remove, plastic, and the insulation pulled out and I replaced all the metal studs. Next I went and bought paint and wall covering and I am now putting on the last coat of paint. I have more staining left to do on the cabin so I will get up very early tomorrow and have the last coat of paint on the walls before I have to start staining again.

Here are some shots of the shop in transition. Once I get all the paint on and things back where they belong I will take the finished pictures.


















Well the wall is finished, all walls have 2 coats of paint and I have run a pipe through the wall for shop air:)

Here it is ready for the electrical.





This is what it looks like now. I moved the lathe which is to the left of the desk back against the wall and it opened the room up just a bit. I also swapped the desk with the work bench so I wasn't backing my chair into the grinder handle.





This wall was only partially painted before and there was no trim around the doors. I still need to paint the trim.....someday..





I really like having the white board behind the mill like this. It comes in very handy when making notes of dimensions or sketching a part out.





I found a metal bracket in the other part of the shop and hung my tool post holder on it. I also moved the collect rack. I think I am going to like this set up much better.


----------



## Majorstrain

Here's my parting tool holder,
It seems that I have the ability to complicate a simple design so that it blows out to a big job. :toilet:
I should have stuck to your design Gail. :wall:

The design is similar to one I saw in a catalogue but is incorporated into the holder and not just held by it.





Just got to find a couple of more M4 cap screws.


I started by cutting a shallow dovetail near the bottom of the holder. The parting off blade is 2.5mm thick so I made the dovetail 2.6mm deep.
The parting blade has a V shape both top and bottom.






The next operation was to remove the excess material from the holder. 12.5mm deep and to below the height of the parting blade.











From there I set the holder up at 45° in a V block to mill a sloped register that will pull the blade hard into the holder.
















With the holder done, It was time to cut some flat bar for the blade top cap.





That was as far as I got before I needed a cup of tea.

When I finally got through that, I squared and cut the stock to length.
There is a small piece of flat bar at the other end of the vice jaws to keep the vice jaws square.






I then cut another 60° dovetail 2.6mm deep (sorry no pic) but you can see it is this set-up.

With the dovetail cut, I set the cap at 45° and milled the mating register.











Again the excess metal was cut milled away.






That's where the progress pictures stop. The camera was in use for baby snaps.

To complete the job, 
I needed to trim the horizontal top surface of the holder so that the 45° register pulled the blade in just before the top cap bedded down on that horizontal surface. I also had to adjust the dovetail that clamps the blade down so that it clamped the blade just before the cap beds down as well.
So are the issues of making the holder before putting pen to paper. ;D






Then I drilled and tapped four M4 holes that seat in the middle line of the top cap.
The cap clamps on the blade and the register while leaving a small clearance on the horizontal surface.

A quick test run confirmed the all works well. When I get my but into gear, I'll post a drawing.

Cheers
Phil


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## Flopearedmule

Here is the post of Rob's Lathe Slotting Attachment.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5012.0


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## Tin Falcon

A couple years ago I set up a lathe for a buddy a NOS Edestall lathe. no tooling no motor I found a tread mill along the side of the road that had a USA made 1hp DC motor and controller power supply. Made a couple of back plates from a chunk of cast iron from mcmaster carr and installed a 4 jaw chuck from the local harbor freight. then added a surplus Bodine 60 :1 geared motor to power feed the longitudinal feed. Then threw in a set of electronic calipers becase the lathe was metric. I also modified the pulleys to take a pair of gates belts as i literally ate o -ring belts in a matter of 10-15 minutes. 
not the best angle but you should get the idea. 













the full scoop here for you history buffs lol.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=19156&highlight=tin+Falcon
Tin


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## reggie98

Forgive what seems to be the most basic of questions. I've used Sjogren and the Jacobs rubber-flex type chucks on large (>13") lathes. Yes, their are convenient. Why would I want a collet chuck instead of a spindle nose adapter and drawtube? It seems that the latter would be easier to make. What is the advantage of the collet chuck, when you have to remove the lathe chuck to use it?


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## shred

reggie98  said:
			
		

> Forgive what seems to be the most basic of questions. I've used Sjogren and the Jacobs rubber-flex type chucks on large (>13") lathes. Yes, their are convenient. Why would I want a collet chuck instead of a spindle nose adapter and drawtube? It seems that the latter would be easier to make. What is the advantage of the collet chuck, when you have to remove the lathe chuck to use it?


Often there's not room in the spindle for the collet-- typical on the 7x, 8x, 9x and 10x lathes when dealing with 5C. Also you can move the collet chuck and work to another machine without losing the part. Btw, I use a drawtube on my 12x..


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## hedgehog

all gone thanks


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## JMI

A test run on hot air. Still have a lot of clean up work/rework to do.



 

Musical accompaniment courtesy of an unknowing niece in another room .

Jim


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## David Morrow

So, just what kind of lathe is it that you have, anyway ???


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## dmartine1

Here it is , the water pump . The original design is from the Model Engine Builder magazine from a few months ago.

I scaled it down to get a proper size. The bolts are 0-80 and the impeller is brass, 1 in dia.

As in any small things, sealing is a problem! For the fromt cover, I used a large O-ring that did the trick. Same for the intake hub, it is mounted on two small O-rings so that it can be adjusted in any direction.

As to the main (power) shaft, that is a different story. I made a very small "kind of" cup shaped seal from delrin which seals okay when circulating water but if I presurize the pump, it leaks through the bearings.






Here are a few shots of the complete engine.






From the back side





A crankshaft close-up





The little burner from salvages medical gases manifolds ... 





A couple weeks ago, I ran the engine with water for about an hour and it ran just fine. 
Unfortunately, I made a HUGE MISTAKE when I stoped it. Knowing that I would put it aside for a while, I wanted to make sure to drain water completely from the system so I blew into the tube. Error, I then pressurized the pump, which made water to make its way through the bearings without noticing. A few days later, when I wanted to spin the pump, the bearings had seized 

After turning it a few times by hand, I got it to move ut not as free as it used to be. Not free enough to be turned with a Stirling. I'll most likely have to replace the bearings.

If you guys have ideas on making a good seal around a .187 in shaft without too much drrag, feel free advise.


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## Tin Falcon

LL:
You may as well delete this post;
The latest version of Mach 3 is available as a free download from their web site. As for the license it is my understanding it is non transferable. 
Sharing copies of Licensed software is considered piracy, is illegal and not allowed here. 
Tin


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## HYTECH

One thing I need to practice with is turning a shaft to size. most of the time I over shoot and go undersized. I did this on the crank mains. and the bearings fit loose so I ordered some bearings from Granger that were undersized and made to be pressfit onto a 0.500" shaft and they fit nicely. I also need to work on finish passes but I think that is mostly my tooling. (cheap carbide 38 piece kit for $20.00) I just ordered HSS blanks from Enco and am going to try to cut my own. I think this will work better. And Man I need a DRO.


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## ksouers

test


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## ksouers

EVERYONE PLEASE BEAR WITH ME.

I JUST HOSED UP THE DATABASE!


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## ksouers

I needed a place to put things till I can get them sorted out.


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## ksouers

kls


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