# Protecting brass finishes.



## b.lindsey (Jan 28, 2009)

gilessim mentioned something in his post on the first team build engine (which looks great by the way) on giving the engine a lacquer finish. I would welcome thoughts/experiences/ideas from others as to what you do to protect the finish of brass especially. Typically I do nothing other than a bit of polishing and tarnish removel using Flitz when i feel like it but that isn't a permanent solution. I have heard of using lacquer, tung oil and other similar finishes and wonder how well that works and if it will truly keep brass clean and shiney over the years. If so, are there any drawbacks to doing that. Having stripped the lacquer or whatever off of doorknobs to make alchohol burners I know it isn't easy to do always and I don't want to have to do that with engine parts if the finish doesn't protect well or scratches easily. Is there a good long lasting solution to the problem. I feel sure others here have some beneficial advice on this.

Bill


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## Stan (Jan 28, 2009)

Clear lacquer, from a spray can, on clean shiny brass lasts for years. Lacquer is a reversible process. It is a solid dissolved in thinner. Put the coated object into lacquer thinner and the coating dissolves and can be wiped off.


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## itowbig (Jan 28, 2009)

Stan  said:
			
		

> Clear lacquer, from a spray can, on clean shiny brass lasts for years. Lacquer is a reversible process. It is a solid dissolved in thinner. Put the coated object into lacquer thinner and the coating dissolves and can be wiped off.



wow i did not know that . everyday a new thing for my brain


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## steamer (Jan 28, 2009)

Stan  said:
			
		

> Clear lacquer, from a spray can, on clean shiny brass lasts for years. Lacquer is a reversible process. It is a solid dissolved in thinner. Put the coated object into lacquer thinner and the coating dissolves and can be wiped off.




Stan's right....Clockmakers do this all the time by dipping and slinging instead of spray, but the result is the same


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## b.lindsey (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks Stan, I'll give it a try on a flywheel or two or the recently finished sterling fan blades. 

Bill


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## rleete (Jan 28, 2009)

Here's a hint for better finishes in clear laquer. Before spraying, heat the part slightly. Think body heat, not oven hot. You want it just warm enough that the laquer flows easily, but not hot enough that the solvent flashes off immediately when spraying. If it's too hot to handle, it's too hot to spray. It helps eliminate bubbles and streaks in the finish.


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## Paolo (Jan 28, 2009)

Hello All...
Never tried before with metals but I was used to dipping and slinging the plastic clear canopy and others painted kit parts onto Future!!!
Cheers..
Paolo


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## Stan (Jan 28, 2009)

The length of time the lacquer will lass is dependent on no penetration to allow air to get under it. If you have bubbles in the finish it will quickly deteriorate.

 In the marketplaces of North Africa, craftsmen sit at a stump making brass trays with hammer, chisels and punches.. I brought a couple of these back in the 70s and sprayed them, and they have not tarnished. So lets say, a good spray job will last thirty years, maybe longer.


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## Metal Mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Be careful with which laquer you use as I made a brass and aluminum chess set and to protect both I used a bottle liquid laquer and 12 months on the brass pieces look rubbish and as I made the set as a retirement present it irks about the finish. I have asked if I can have the set back and try something else. But I am interested if the spray system works...because the liquid I used, didn't!


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## bentprop (Jan 28, 2009)

I used to work on tramcar restoration,and their brass parts were always professionally polished,then lacquered.These items get polished frequently in use,so the lacquer must stand up to that.
So I believe it will be more than good enough for model engines that surely get handled much less.
Preparation is the most important step in the whole process.There must be no wax or polish left on the brass before lacquering.I'm sure the suppliers will be able to tell you what type of lacquer is best for brass.


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## firebird (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi

This topic is of great interest to me as I have just stripped my boiler to polish up all the parts. In my case though I intend to run the boiler, i.e meths burner and steam. Will lacquer stand up to heat???

Cheers

Rich


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## Rustkolector (Jan 28, 2009)

My experience with lacquered brass has been mixed. I have a model IC engine with considerable brass tubing manifolds and coolant piping. They look great when first polished. I polished, degreased, and lacquered the tubing manifolds TWICE with no luck. Each time they looked great for awhile, but began to tarnish after running the engine at shows. It didn't take much in the way of heat and oil to tarnish them. In frustration I purchased an electroless nickel plating kit and now they look great and stay that way. However, if you don't expose your creations to heat, oil, and solvents, lacquer would probably last for quite a few years. 
Jeff


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## b.lindsey (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks to all for the very useful suggestions!!

Bill


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## Paula (Jan 29, 2009)

firebird  said:
			
		

> In my case though I intend to run the boiler, i.e meths burner and steam. Will lacquer stand up to heat???



Hi Rich,

I wouldn't think that lacquer would tolerate that kind of heat. 

Someone mentioned nickel plating -- I wonder how that would work with the heat? I used to have a Jensen steam engine/boiler set, and the brass boiler was plated with nickel(?) and/or chrome(?) Whatever it was, it held up pretty well, though it did darken slightly where the (alcohol tablet) flames came up around the sides. Still looked good after many years.

Paula


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## artrans (Jan 29, 2009)

found this on a web site some good ideas .Brass is a combination of two primary metals - copper and zinc. When brass is cast or forged it has the beautiful golden luster that we find appealing. The brass, however, is very unstable and unhappy. The brass grabs oxygen (oxidizes) or any other compatible ion from the air or rain in a rush to stabilize. This chemical reaction creates the tarnished appearance. The dull tarnish on brass is actually a defense mechanism that slows the corrosion process.

To protect brass from oxidation or tarnish manufacturers apply clear coatings at the factory. Lacquers, urethanes and other clear finishes can vary in film thickness and quality. Some may break down rapidly when exposed to the sun's ultraviolet (UV) rays. Acid rain and other air-borne contaminants can erode and eat through the coatings. The exposed brass then begins to tarnish. The uneven rate of tarnishing of your fixtures is most likely caused by different levels of quality in the coatings and the application process. 

If you want brass hardware that doesn't tarnish, it is now available. Several manufacturers offer a lifetime tarnish-free warranty on their products. The brass is coated with different metals such as zirconium, nickel and palladium. The coatings are sometimes applied in a vacuum. They are usually only several molecules thick! This is why you can still see through to the brass.


Those of us who have older brass hardware have to restore and periodically re-coat it to maintain its brilliant luster. The restoration of decorative hardware usually begins with the removal of the old, worn clear coating. This can be accomplished easily with paint strippers. Follow the directions provided by the stripper manufacturer. Try to work in a shady, well ventilated area.

Once the old finish is removed, clean the brass hardware with soap and water to remove any residual stripper. The brass must be perfectly clean or the chemicals may corrode and discolor the brass. Wash and rinse several times if you feel it's necessary. 

If the brass is severely tarnished you may have to use special chemical kits to restore the brass. These kits contain a special caustic solvent which chemically removes the oxidation. A neutralizing agent must then be applied. The neutralizer is then washed off with soap and water.

After the brass is dried, it can be buffed or polished to a mirror-like brilliance. Brass which is only slightly tarnished can be polished successfully with many of the off the shelf cleaners and compounds you commonly see at a grocery or department store. Lemon juice and salt mixed together also will do a great job. Once again, after the brass is shiny, be sure to wash it with soap and water. Buff it with a soft cloth to make it shine.

Once you have polished the brass, coat it with 3 or 4 coats of a UV resistant clear lacquer or high gloss urethane. Buff between coats with a soft cotton cloth. To maintain the shine of the brass, re-coat it with the lacquer or urethane at least once a year.


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## shred (Jan 29, 2009)

One of the local live steamers uses a clear coat of some sort to keep bare brass (and bare Alu) shiny and it seems to work well. I don't know the coating used and IIRC it wasn't inexpensive, but it does seem to work well. I'll see if I can dig up more info.


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## Cedge (Jan 29, 2009)

After trying a number of different coatings, I learned that all it took as a tiny bit of tarnish trapped under the surface to start the build up growing. After a few times stripping the coating to repolish, it just wasn't worth the effort anymore...(sigh) Now I just give things a good polishing when they get dull or tarnished. It's just part of the normal care and feeding for a steam engine.

Steve


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## Kermit (Jan 29, 2009)

I have used Paste Wax on many a piece of furniture and all the electronics get a coat over their painted surfaces. It dries HARD and buffs out beautiful with just a cotton tshirt and a tiny bit of elbow grease. 

I don't see why something like that couldn't be used, re-apply with every cleaning and it should keep a shine going forever. No build up either, or not enough to notice. 

Since it can be reapplied with out stripping the old coat it would be better than a varnish or urethane.


It isn't solvent resistant though! Alcohol and petroleum liquors would remove it.


Just a thought,
Kermit


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## ksouers (Jan 29, 2009)

I've used paste floor wax on tools. Seems to work pretty well.

We get really nasty humidity here, 3 major rivers converging within 5 miles of each other makes for lots of humidity.

Kevin


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## Dhow Nunda wallah (Jan 30, 2009)

Clear powder coat may be an option.
Lasts many years on bath taps, door furniture etc.
Dunno about heat resistance.
There are high-temp powders, but whether they are available in clear is a question for the pros.


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## gilessim (Jan 30, 2009)

I mentioned this before in another post but I can't remember where right now but there is a firm near me who polish belt buckles and stuff like that for Prada, Gucci ,D and G etc.,after polishing, all of the stuff is dipped in dry cleaning fluid (tetrachloroethelene) then given a coat of acrylic lacquer ,the same sort of stuff you can get in cans from auto parts places, I've made a few guitar bridges and used that technique on them and they really have to stand up to a lot of wear from your hand, one I put on one of my guitars a couple of years ago and despite the sweat and everything it still looks good as new!

Giles


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