# Model Sawmill Dreaming---



## Brian Rupnow (Nov 13, 2012)

Now that I have finished the Atkinson engine, its time to start thinking about another machining project. I don't think I want to build another engine of any type, as I am somewhat over-ran with engines now. I have 10 different steam engines and 3 internal combustion engines. The steam engines, which I run off my air compressor are fun to look at, but rather gutless in terms of power when compared to the i.c. engines. My favourite i.c. engine is the Kerzel hit and miss that I built a couple of years ago. Even it would probably not have sufficient power to run a circular saw blade, but I am thinking in terms of the old mills which were water powered and had a vertical blade that moved up and down like a jig-saw. These sawmills didn't require a lot of power to drive them. The log wasn't fed into the saw by a cable driven carriage, but there was a ratchet and paul device that would move the log into the sawblade during the downstroke (which was the cutting stroke) and "pause" the log during the sawblades upstroke so as not to put pressure on the blade when it was lifting. I have to do some more research on this, but it might make an interesting project. A fine toothed sabre saw blade would probably be close to the right size, and the "logs" to be sawed would be peices of 1" diameter wooden dowel.----Brian


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## Beachside_Hank (Nov 13, 2012)

I observed a vertical blade sawmill at Old Sturbridge Village in Massachusetts that was water wheel powered, the stroke speed and feed were unbelievably fast. You&#8217;d think being water powered it&#8217;s take long, slow, labored licks, but it was just as fast as an electrical powered head mill. There was no upstroke compensation mechanism, just a simple method whereby the blade, instead of being pure vertical as it enters the cut, was pitched forward a few degrees so that on the return upstroke it effectively moved away from the work just enough to disengage tooth contact. Simple and brilliant I thought.


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## Jasonb (Nov 14, 2012)

Sounds an interesting project Brian.

I wonder if a sabre saw blade may be a bit thick and the amount of wood removed would put more load on the machine due to the wide kerf. Maybe a section of bandsaw blade particularly if you can get the narrow meat & fish type blades which are only 0.020-0.025".

J


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## bret4 (Nov 14, 2012)

Try using a coping saw blade. 

Haven't been to Sturbridge village in years. Brings back good memories. Great place to see how things were many years ago.


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## Generatorgus (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi Brian, I have some experience on this subject.
Quite a few years ago I got a whim to power a small Wilesco (I think) generator with a water wheel.

I decided to build a 2 story 1/12th scale model of a mill and put the generator in it, running a light or two.
My dream was somewhat dampened when I got it all done and the 16" wheel didn't have enough output to run the genny, it would hardly turn it.

I'm not sure how big a wheel I would have needed to run it. Sawing even a small tiny piece of wood would not be possible with my set up.

Happy ending is I decided to scrap the generator thing and run some other toy stuff. I installed antique toy line shaft setups and built a lot of model stuff to outfit it. 

I've took the mill to Cabin Fever a few years back and it drew a lot of attention.

Not trying to steal your post, just wanting to give you a heads up on the power issue, I guess physics has a lot to do with it.

Just can't resist showing it off a little.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 14, 2012)

Great models GeneratorGus---However, as I said in my first post, I will be using an internal combustion engine for power.----Brian


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## Jasonb (Nov 14, 2012)

Brian have you thought of a drag saw, that would be more in keeping with a small hit & miss engine

[ame]http://youtu.be/7XtxBUqJ3Xw[/ame]

I've just got castings for a 1/3 scale Galloway and may make a cross cut saw rig for that bit it will have a bit more power than your smaller engines.

J


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 14, 2012)

Jason--Thats very interesting. I had never seen a drag saw before. I don't think thats the type I would build, but its an interesting video.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 14, 2012)

Thinking about this some more. It will be no problem to run the sawblade up and down. All that requires is an offset, a connecting rod, and a pair of guides to make the blade run true. However, advancing the log intermitantly will be a challenge. Obviously the log will have to be secured to a carriage, which will run on a pair of inverted V tracks to guide it. Now on a circular blade sawmill, there is a winch drum which winds an endless cable to pull the carriage and log thru the saw in one continuous movement. Then the winch drum is reversed to return the carriage to the other end and the log is "dogged over" for another pass thru the circular saw. On the type I am proposing, the carriage will only advance while the saw blade is being pulled down thru the cut, but must stop while the sawblade is pushed back up to the top. This intermittant advancing of the carriage is accomplished by a ratchet and paul mechanism that is geared to the movement of the sawblade.The amount of carriage advance with each downstroke of the blade will be very small, probably only .030" or so. Since it is geared to the sawblade mechanism, if the saw speeds up, the carriage advancement speeds up with it, but still only advances the same distance with each downstroke. ----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 14, 2012)

Here is a great video showing the ratchet and paul device which moves the mill carriage along!!! It doesn't show it clearly, but it appears that the bottom of the carriage has a long gear rack attached to it, and the very large ratchet wheel turns a shaft with a small pinion on it that engages the rack and moves the carriage foreward. I have no idea of how they backed the carriage up to saw another board, but it MAY have been done manually.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQVv-DInqSY[/ame]


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## kutzdibutz (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi Brian,

Hmm- why not go for this design? This slices multiple boards in one go...
The feed is done with this nasty shaped rolls, but a ratchet drive would make completely sense I think. I saw a model of this type at a fare but didnt take any photos. But it looked sweet anyhow.





Good luck with your project and the selection!

Cheers, Karsten


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 14, 2012)

Kutzdibutz---I worked for a few years designing high production sawmill equipment for use in Ontario, Canada. The machine you show was called a "Bull Edger" and by adjusting the spacers between the saw blades you could get it to produce many different thicknesses of boards.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 14, 2012)

Here is another video---The first half is still shots, then it shows a schematic plan of the overall mechanism, then it goes into actual video mode----And right at the end it shows the carriage advance mechanism working.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fG6L2sx_-fk


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## gbritnell (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi Brian,
I too am not trying to hijack your thread but want to let you know my experience with sawing wood with a miniature engine. I have a 1" scale Case steam traction engine and have several accessories for it not the least of which is a 1" Russell sawmill. I know it's a circular saw type but I think you will run into the same problems I have. First off it takes much more power to drag a saw blade through wood than you can imagine. Even with your proposed type the blade will have loading on each tooth and this equates to a heck of a lot of drag. Probably the only way you could accomplish this is to gear the engine way down so you have as much torque at the blade as possible. 
With my sawmill I ended up powering it with a 2 cylinder steam engine with a bore and stroke of .750. It's double acting and when running at about 1500 rpm it will go through a slab of .375 Cedar fairly well. I once tried a small dried out branch from a tree but I couldn't slow my infeed down enough and it would stall the blade. It seems like the power from little engines is reduced by the square or cube root or something. 
Anyway here's a couple of shots of my 1" Russell saw mill. 
gbritnell


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## f350ca (Nov 14, 2012)

My grandfather had a water powered mill with a stroke saw on the Madawaska river. Uncle Charlie claimed you could start the log into the saw and go for lunch, that video pretty much confirms it.


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## mygrizzly1022 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi Brian



 I don&#8217;t know if you havecome across this document or not. It may be of some help.



Regards &#8230;.bert

http://www.mcmillanlibrary.org/rosholt/wi-logging-book/wilogging/images/00000031.pdf


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 15, 2012)

GBritnell---What a superb peice of engineering!!! Simply beautifull.    f350ca---I know parts of the Madawaska. I grew up in Bancroft. In fact, when I went to high school there, the schoolbus brought boys and girls down from the village of Madawaska to high school in Bancroft. I had a good friend, Bob Lavalee from Madawaska, who lost a leg in a snowmobile accident when he was a young man.   mygrizzly1022---Thanks for the information.--Lots of good reading there.----Brian


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## f350ca (Nov 15, 2012)

Brian,
I'm further down stream in Calabogie, grandpa's mill was at Camel Chute, now under water after they built the Mountain Chute dam. All these places were so named for the log chute there that diverted the logs around rapids or falls.
Would be a drive but apparently Upper Canada Village has an operating stroke saw.
Greg


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 15, 2012)

f350ca---There is a mill like that at OHaras Mill just north of Madoc. I have seen it operating.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 15, 2012)

From what I can tell, the saw and reciprocating mechanism would be a peice of cake.---Very straightforeward. The more problematic side of what I have in mind would be the carriage advance mechanism. I do have a set of 24DP gearcutters, so I could probably machine a gear large enough to act as the ratchet wheel. Might be a problem though, finding a "model size" rack and pinion for the carriage. If I sawed 6" long x 1" diameter "logs" then I would need a rack about 8" long, with a #24 pitch. I MIGHT be able to machine one.


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## Jasonb (Nov 16, 2012)

Brian you don't need a gear cutter to do ratchet wheels, a standard end mill will do the job, just set it so the edge of the cutter is on centre line or the ratchet wheel. Or for a better undercut a simple singel point tool can be made like a fly cutter.

I have done a few for the tarchet lubricators on traction engines, each stroke of the valve rod gives about 1/40 to 1/60 of a turn to teh pump ram.

A #1 cutter in any DP will cut the correct profile for a straight rack, you may have to make it in sections if you don't have  ahorz. mill.

J


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## Noitoen (Nov 16, 2012)

To back the carriage, they may use the flat part of the ratchet wheel. It's difficult to see if there's a flat belt or not.


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## Jasonb (Nov 16, 2012)

I would say the four handled spider in front of the ratchet wheel is used to manulally bring the log upto the start of the cut and then wind it back for the next cut. Lift the wooden handle that you can see moving up & down to disengage the ratchet

J


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## johnmcc69 (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi Brian,
You may want to check out the SDP Stirling instruments
Catalog web site, I see they have a nice selection of
Racks in lengths up to 18". You may be able to find
something in a suitable scale. They also have CAD
models available.

Looking forward to your design & build on this!

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm still tossing this sawmill idea around in my head. After prowling around on a dozen "Muley" type sawmill videos, I have a pretty good idea of what I will design. One thing of note, is that these sawmills which cut with intermittant strokes generally incorporated a good sized flywheel somewhere in the system.The kinetic energy "stored" in the rotating flywheel during the "non cutting" part of the cycle would be released during the "cutting stroke" and help keep the waterwheel from bogging down. ----And if it worked for waterwheels, the same technology will work with small hit and miss engines. A number of people who have actually built similar model sawmills have told me that the small engines bog down badly during the cutting stroke combined with the foreward movement of the carriage and log. I have an idea of how I might address the issue. Since the foreward motion of the carriage is initiated by an eccentric which drives the ratchet and paul, it would probably be a really good idea to have an adjustable eccentric. This would allow you to "dial in" the amount of carriage advance during the cutting stroke of the sawblade. My next idea, and it may be a good one, is why use a ratchet and paul if there is something better. The "something better" in this case would be a "one way bearing" ---see attached link. If the outer race of the bearing was Loctited into a peice of round stock, and the inner race atached to the pinion shaft which drives the rack on the carriage, then the arm from the eccentric could just rock the roundstock back and forth and the bearing would only transmit rotary motion to the pinion shaft in one direction. The "arm" could be a quick disconnect from the roundstock to enable returning the carriage to its home position after a cut was made.
http://www.onewaybearings.com/


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2012)

Well, I guess I have to start somewhere!! For my sawblade I have settled on a good old garden variety hacksaw blade. They are available in many different tooth configurations and only have about a .055 kerf. I can cut them to whatever length I want.--For a sense of scale, it measures 4 1/2" between the vertical arms on each side. I have only guessed at the length right now. You will see I have placed 1/8" wide "wheels" in the vertical uprights to cut down on friction with the guides when the log is being fed into the saw.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2012)

Enough of this foolishness this morning!!! Its a beautifull day out and I'm not going to set inside for the rest of the day designing.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2012)

Something like this---


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## Jasonb (Nov 17, 2012)

The con rod looks quite short, a slightly longer one would put less sideways load onto the frame and give a smoother running saw.

J


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2012)

Good Lord!!! What have I gotten myself into here???


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 17, 2012)

Well, with the exception of the incrementing drive parts for the carriage, there it is, mostly designed. I will probably shorten up the carriage a bit, and consequently the overall length will come down about 1 1/2". In theory, it will work. Its almost impossible to know how much power it will take to drive it. I will finish up the incrementing drive tomorrow.


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## starnovice (Nov 18, 2012)

Brian,
I have just finished reading all of your threads.  I feel like I have known you for about 4 years.  You have done some really great work and have taught me a lot.  I can't wait to see this sawmill completed.

th_wav

Pat


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## Herbiev (Nov 18, 2012)

Looking great Brian. Cant wait to follow the build.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks guys, I appreciate your comments. When I do this sort of thing everyday, all day, it doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. I always get such a big thrill when I know that others are watching and commenting as I go along. I will be posting the plans as I go through this, as I usually do.----Brian


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## bret4 (Nov 18, 2012)

Looks like a fun project. I know when I made my first engine a long time back a young person said "so what does it do?" This looks like something that the younger generation would find more interesting to watch when run by a steam engine.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 18, 2012)

Well Brian what can I say. It seems like within a few hours you go from a dream and pondering to a near complete set of plans. I guess that is what happens when you have 20 plus years experience as a designer. I can draw parts fairly well on alibre but still having a time assembling stuff. practice practice I guess. 
thank for sharing. 

I have seen a few model saw mills , drag saws etc at cabin fever but do not recall seeing one like this good work.
Tin


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

This is a view of the sawmill with the adjustable eccentric, linkage, and one way bearing which will advance the carriage and log into the saw blade. Also a blow up of the adjustable eccentric area. I still have to design a method for "quickly unlatching" the linkage to allow the carriage to return to the other end once the log has been sawed.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

Tin---Try 47 years plus!!! I started this foolishness (designing machinery) in July of 1965.--And that is all I've worked at my whole life.---Brian


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## johnmcc69 (Nov 18, 2012)

Looking good Brian. Which of your
engines will be powering this?

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

johnmcc69 said:


> Looking good Brian. Which of your
> engines will be powering this?
> 
> John


 Right now I'm thinking the Kerzel hit and miss.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

I may very well have out-thought myself with the one way bearing. Although it will work perfectly when driving the carriage into the saw, there is absolutely no good, practical way to disengage it after the log has been fully sawn so that the carriage can be returned to the other end. I may go back to the ratchet and paul, simply because it is so easy to disengage the paul from the ratchet and return the carriage. Due to the small size of the machinery, I can't depend on gravity to do too much. As a consequence, the lever or"paul" which engages the ratchet wheel would have a light tension spring to keep it engaged. By simply swinging the lever away from the ratchet wheel by hand, the carriage can be backed up by hand with no problem. Since there is a very distinct relationship between the stroke of the saw and the advance of the carriage, and the carriage stops but the saw doesn't, I'm not sure how you re-engage the "paul" at the correct notch on the ratchet wheel to maintain this relationship.


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## Tin Falcon (Nov 18, 2012)

> Tin---Try 47 years plus!!!


sorry  been long enough it is second nature like scratching the head for most of us.
Tin


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

I may have just found an excellent source for a steel ratchet wheel. My lathe came with a ton of change gears, none of which I use because I don't use my lathe for threading. The gear are only .280" wide and I seem to have an almost infinite number of different diameters.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

After much thinking about this ratchet and paul/carriage advance business occuring in the correct sequence with the blade stroke-----I've had an epiphany!!! Since the eccentric is on the same shaft as the "crank throw", it will always rotate "in synch" with the blade stroke. Basically, it can't get "out of synchronization" no matter when you choose to engage the paul. It will only advance the carriage when the blade is stroking down. It has no choice. When the blade is stroking up, the eccentric will be lifting the paul away from the rack. So---If I lift the paul from the rack and back the carriage up by hand, it doesn't matter where things are in the rotation of the "crankshaft" which drives the sawblade. It can ONLY advance the carriage when the sawblade is moving downward on its cutting stroke. If I release the paul while the sawblade is on an upstroke, the paul will be retracting. It won't start to move the carriage untill the blade starts to come down. This makes life a lot simpler!!! If I want to back the carriage up fully and pause it there, for instance when the log needs to be repositioned for another cut but the saw is still running, I can have an indent pin to keep the paul disengaged while I do this.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 18, 2012)

So here we have it with a 4" dia. 100 tooth change gear acting as the ratchet wheel.


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## metal89 (Nov 19, 2012)

Hi Brian,
some links that could be useful. they are in French but with Google translation it's readable.
In France they are called :  Scie de Haut fer (something like Overtype Saw).
http://hautfer.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/mecanisme.jpg
http://www.usinages.com/modelisme/recherche-plan-doc-sur-haut-fer-t759-30.html
and the excellent serie of engraving by Armengaud 
http://gallica.bnf.fr/Search?ArianeWireIndex=index&p=1&lang=FR&q=armengaud+planches
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k61771w/f1.image.r=armengaud planches.langEN
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k617727/f1.image.r=armengaud planches.langEN

Enjoy,
Patrick


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2012)

Thank You METAL89---Some good information there.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm not really sure I want to build this, but Damn, there are just so many neat mechanical motions going on, its hard to resist!!!


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## johnmcc69 (Nov 19, 2012)

Wow Brian, coming along very nicely.
Will you be animating all the motions in SolidWorks?

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2012)

johnmcc69 said:


> Wow Brian, coming along very nicely.
> Will you be animating all the motions in SolidWorks?
> 
> John


No, animations are something that I don't do well nor often.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 20, 2012)

Well, I guess I'm committed to this project. I just ordered the gear rack (24" long) and 2 spur gears to drive the carriage. I could have made the gears myself, as they are 24 dp., but I can't make the rack with my vertical mill so I figured I might as well buy both gears and rack at one time.There are just too many nifty mechanical things happening with this model to not build it. I'm thinking I will use 3/4 inch square oak for the carriage, dowelled and glued together.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 20, 2012)

GBritnell---I really like the way you built the lever and ratchet system for "dogging the log over" to cut another board. I haven't really planned anything in that area on mine yet, but if everything else works, I may "borrow" your design and add it to my model.---Brian


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## ronkh (Nov 20, 2012)

"I'm not really sure I want to build this, but" 

Sorry Brian mate but there is no way that are you not building this! 
I have followed, for the past couple of years, your threads and listened to your commentary on videos and have found them so bl**dy good and to hear your voice is one of the pleasures I take from this site.
I may not of said anything before but, I have followed you.
Please carry on.

Kind regards,

Ron.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 20, 2012)

Ronkh---Thanks for the vote of confidence!!! Stick around---I think this will be a fun build.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 20, 2012)




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## starnovice (Nov 20, 2012)

ronkh said:


> "I'm not really sure I want to build this, but"
> 
> Sorry Brian mate but there is no way that are you not building this!
> I have followed, for the past couple of years, your threads and listened to your commentary on videos and have found them so bl**dy good and to hear your voice is one of the pleasures I take from this site.
> ...



DITTO

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 20, 2012)

Check this video out!!! The commentator gets a bit fumble mouthed a couple of times, but it does give an excellent video of the operation of the saw and carriage advance mechanism on this type of a mill. It also shows (and I hadn't thought of this) that the ratchet/paul mechanism can be used to back the carriage up. Now I have to watch that reverse action a couple more times, because it only shows it for about a second. EDIT--No, I had that wrong.--There is a counter rotating friction wheel engaged by a lever that backs the carriage up. I don't know why there isn't any sound on the video. There is on the original which I copied and pasted the link from.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRK0aD6-OhY&feature=relmfu[/ame]


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## starnovice (Nov 20, 2012)

nice video good quality.  BTW I got sound.


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## Tarheel (Nov 21, 2012)

Brian,
Here is a link to a Gang Saw built by John Aschauer and displayed at the American Precision Museum, Windsor, Vermont.

http://www.americanprecision.org/2011the-miniatures-of-john-aschauer-master-craftman

I am following this build with much interest as I have your previous ones. I am currently building your Popcorn Engine. 

Larry Hoke


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 21, 2012)

So here we have it, boys and girls. Enough aluminum to build everything I have detailed so far, plus 24" of rack and two spur gears, for the grand sum of $136.00----The rack and two gears cost $90.00, which included shipping and tax. The aluminum cost $46.00.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 22, 2012)

So, this morning things took a giant leap. Went from dreaming about the sawmill to actually making it. One part down---


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 22, 2012)

And another one bites the dust!! 2 more peices and I'll have a saw frame!!!


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## Lance (Nov 22, 2012)

Brian, your ability to take an idea and put it on paper is nothing short of amazing. I always watch your builds and have learned a LOT. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 22, 2012)

HELP!!!--I've been framed!!!


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## starnovice (Nov 22, 2012)

Brian, I was going to say you were having a busy Thanksgiving, but then I remembered i was a month late. 

The parts are looking good as usual.

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 22, 2012)

Well, its been a long hard day at the Rupnow Sawmill Works, but the crew is happy. We have the sawframe ready to rock and roll, all except for a blade.  This is the first full day I've had off from my "real job" so I figured to "Make hay while the sun shines".  The little brass wheels inset into the sideframes are intended to eliminate some of the friction between the sawframe and the two towers that it rides in as the log is forced into the sawblade by the carriage.


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## bret4 (Nov 23, 2012)

Good work! That video was interesting showing the reverse feed. I wonder how they stepped the log over for the next cut?


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

Bret--that is one of the things I have never been able to figure out from any of the videos. In fact, it appears as though the logs are TIED onto the carriage, which I simply can not believe. There must have been some kind of machanical linkage, similar to the one shown earlier in this thread as designed by GBritnell, but I haven't seen one anywhere.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

This morning we will do something a bit different for a change. My 100 tooth change gear has a bore of 20mm. I have to build a hub for it that will go onto a 1/4" shaft. I don't want to destroy the change gear in any way, so I will build a hub from a crusty old 3/4" fine thread bolt (which has already been modified at some point in its past, note the round head).   20mm is 0.787". That means I will have to build a spacer with a wall thickness of .018" and an i.d. of 0.75". I'm not sure this is possible, but I dug up a 3/4" bronze bushing and loctited it to a peice of 3/4" shaft so I can turn down the outer diameter to 0.787".


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

. 
Well, that part went very well. Now to file the keyway into the bronze insert--


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

A 3/16" hole drilled 1/3 of the way thru the bolt, just under the head becomes a nest for a peice of 3/16" cold rolled shaft, which will become the "key" to fit in the keyway of the change gear.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

With the spacer and "key" in place, all is assembled, the nut is tightened, and then, holding the head in the vice, the nut is turned to be round and dressed up a little. Then the threads are turned off the bolt. Next, the assembly is flipped over and the end (which previously had threads is gripped in the chuck. The head of the bolt is turned away to a round stub about 0.150 thick, and the 1/4" hole thru the center is drilled and reamed. Thena #10-24 thread is ran in thru one side for a set screw. There---Its finished!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

KOOL!!!!There's my cariage drive!!!---Well actually, thats a dummy shaft. The real shaft will be longer.


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## bret4 (Nov 23, 2012)

I guess they could have rolled the log onto the flat side after the first cut then slide it over after the next cuts against some kind of stops. This would be a simple way to get the same size board with each cut. 

Being that this kind of saw may not have cut that fast it may not have seemed to be a big time waster to move the log by hand. Even if it was no faster than two men pulling on the saw it wouldn't get tired so it still got more work done.


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## bret4 (Nov 23, 2012)

I did a search on google to see how the logs were held when cutting. Found this public video taken at old Sturbridge village.

http://flic.kr/p/8djh5e

Still looking for how they position them.


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## bret4 (Nov 23, 2012)

Just found this video that shows a guy moving the log with a bar. Then he pounds spikes into it to hold it in place.

[ame]http://youtu.be/pCGBUgv1RvM[/ame]


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## bret4 (Nov 23, 2012)

This video shows stops that are being used to get the board size. It also shows how the blade is tensioned on this saw at the top with adjustable screws. Much the same way a hacksaw blade is tensioned.

[ame]http://youtu.be/CcbeAFpt6bU[/ame]


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

Good Grief, its been a long afternoon in my little shop. My bandsaw blade is dull, and I had to cut close to 60" of 3/4" aluminum to make the two outer frame towers shown here. Then after they were sawed out, I milled all the sawcuts----which is quite fine, considering that the towers are 13" tall, and the maximum table movement on my milll is 11 1/2". However, there was nothing else very exciting going on in my life, and my wife was busy doing things in her office upstairs. I have learned #1--Not to drag things up to show her for approval. All shop artifacts look the same to her. #2---If I am going to do something real stinky (as in burning cutting oil) to open the window in my little shop even if its 40 below zero, so the smells don't make it upstairs to where she is working.  I expect that tomorrow I may actually finish these two towers. If so, I will have to go downtown before noon and buy a peice of 6 x 3/4" aluminum plate x 18" long for a baseplate to mount them to. I called a custom trim and molding company today, and they do sell finished 3/4" square oak for 54 cents a foot, so that is probably what I will build my carriage from.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 23, 2012)

For some reason, I can't get sound on these youtube videos. My speakers are turned on, nothing is muted, but I'm not getting sound. Anybody got a suggestion?


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## johnmcc69 (Nov 23, 2012)

All I hear is: Brian!! KEEP IT DOWN! STOP MAKING SO MUCH NOISE!!
FEED THE GARBAGE..TAKE OUT THE CAT!! I MEAN..FEED THE CAT..

& finally, "YES DEAR.".


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

johnmcc69---My wife is one of those super women that I was fortunate enough to find 25 years ago. (I had 15 years with the OTHER kind of woman, so I know what I am talking about). My wife is a professional in the human resource and career path counseling field. We both work from home offices, and yes, it can get a little crazy around here by times. She professes to know (or want to know) very little about the world of engineering and fabrication and machining. I know even less about human resources and career path counseling.---And yet, somehow, we make it work very well.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

I need to know something. I have read a number of conflicting opinions related to carriage advance and sawstroke timing. My plan all along has been to have the carriage advance while the saw is moving down in its cutting stroke, and to "pause" while the saw is moving up on its non cutting stroke. Last night I read the exact opposite on a website. This isn't a big problem for me to change, as the eccentric wheel is only attached to the main "crankshaft" with a setscrew and can easily be rotated 180 degrees out of phase.  On another website, I read that the two main columns which the saw frame slides up and down in are tilted in the direction of carriage travel towards the sawblade at the top, by a number of degrees. The theory here is that as the saw is travelling up on the non cutting stroke, the angle of the support columns/guides causes the log to move away from the cut, and that the carriage advances during this upward travel of the saw. Then when the saw travels down on its cutting stroke, the carriage pauses and the saw cuts into the log on its downstroke due to the angle of the support columns.----This is something which I can not easily change "after the fact", without tilting the main columns and having things look a bit goofy. (If I was going to use this last approach, I would leave the columns vertical and cut the internal guide slot on an angle). Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as I hope to finish those columns today.----Brian


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## johnmcc69 (Nov 24, 2012)

Brian, I  apologize for that, I didn't intend  for that
To sound like I was judging anything. It just sounded
Funny at the time. I'm sorry.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

johnmcc69 said:


> Brian, I  apologize for that, I didn't intend  for that
> To sound like I was judging anything. It just sounded
> Funny at the time. I'm sorry.
> 
> John


John---Don't be sorry----It was funny!!!


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## f350ca (Nov 24, 2012)

Brian,
Advancing the carriage on the non cutting stroke would leave the blade loaded as it tried to move on the cutting stoke. I'd expect the blade would wonder under those conditions. 
With the eccentric advancing the log, as you have it, the blade starts down under no load, the eccentric accelerates the log forward to the middle of the stroke then decelerates for the remainder giving the teeth time to remove the cuttings.
Angling the blade changes the cutting action to a point. At the extreme if the blade was parallel to the log you'd be ripping the fibres and get log stringy cuttings, rather than shearing them. 
I tried ripping cedar blocks with a bandsaw blade to make shingles, the cuttings were unmanageable and the added surface in contact with the blade made it slower to advance. I settled with conventional cross cutting and poorer surface finish.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

Someone just told me that its "Ratchet and Pawl"----Not "Ratchet and Paul'".---My apologies to all the Pauls out there!!!   Damn, I knew that too.


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## bret4 (Nov 24, 2012)

I may be wrong, but in the videos I posted it looks like it is advancing as the blade on the up stroke. On an old machine made of wood there may be enough give in all the moving parts that this would work fine. 

Then I have to wonder if the aggressive blade they are using tends to pull itself into the log on the down stroke cutting so deep that they needed to time the advance on the up stroke so the blade would give them a full cut on the next down stroke.

Anyway you look at it I think it would be a good idea to be able to adjust when the advance happens because a small precisely made model may not react the same as the real thing.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

The slots in these outer frame columns are 5/8" wide x 3/8" deep x 10 5/16" long. When you don't have any power feeds on your mill, Damn, thats a lot of cranking. I can only take a .030" depth of cut or the mill doesn't like it much.


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## starnovice (Nov 24, 2012)

"...Damn, thats a lot of cranking..."

I know what you mean Brian.  I don't have power feed either because I thought they were too expensive.  I am starting to re-think that.  At least it builds up your biceps, or in the case of arthritis it builds up your pain threshold level. 

Pat


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## Cliff (Nov 24, 2012)

Hey Brian
     As usual your work is top notch. You was saying that your Mill doesn't have a power feed why don't you build one here a while back I read a post where Ozzie 46 built one so why don't you. Always following a long. Cliff


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

Cliff---Thanks for following. I really don't want a power feed. It is very rare for me to mill things this large/long. It would just be one more thing to worry about crashing.----Brian


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## aonemarine (Nov 24, 2012)

spring load carriage to the blade???


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

aonemarine said:


> spring load carriage to the blade???


What are you talking about??


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## aonemarine (Nov 24, 2012)

Yea im terrible at explaining things...  put springs on the carriage that holds the log to keep pressure against the blade and then not let the carriage advance until the log is sawn thru to remove the pressure then allow the carriage to advance.  I was thinking this until i saw where you wernt looking for a power feed on the carriage.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

aonemarine---Go back and read the whole thread. There is a power feed on the carriage. Thats what the ratchet and paul and rack and pinion are about. I do NOT have a power return on the carriage. Although it is possible to have a power return, as shown in one of the videos I linked to, I don't think I am going to bother with one.


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## johnmcc69 (Nov 24, 2012)

Brian, you are a madman.
I can't believee how quick you take your ideas
from "paper" to finished part.
I don't know how you do it.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 24, 2012)

johnmcc69--You're right. I am a madman. And I've been this way most of my life.


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## aonemarine (Nov 24, 2012)

OK re read, Got mixed up looking at the line for the no power feed on the mill, guess thats what i get for just scanning the pictures LOL.
 Hopefully you under stood me with what I was talking about on the power feed not being able to move forward until the load is off the blade, probably by holding up the paw somehow until the load is off the blade. I probably should just keep my mouth shut and go back to lurking.....


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## Jasonb (Nov 25, 2012)

What about if just the blade were tilted or actually tapered, think of it like a keyway broach.

Talking full size if the blade were 3/8 narrower at the bottom then by the time it reached the bottom of the stroke it would have cut 3/8" into the wood. As soon as the blade starts to rise the cutting edge will move away from the sawn timber allowing the log to be advanced by not more than 3/8" ready for the next stroke, just like putting a shim into the broaching bush.

The easiest way to do this on the model would be to just offset the top and bottom mountings by your "taper length" either the actual blocks or the holes in the blade


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## bret4 (Nov 25, 2012)

I think your on to something jasonb. I just found this video that shows the blade motion like you mentioned.

http://www.steinkjer-kommune.net/eggevandring/egge/index.php?meny=23


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## Cogsy (Nov 25, 2012)

bret4 said:


> I just found this video that shows the blade motion like you mentioned.
> 
> http://www.steinkjer-kommune.net/eggevandring/egge/index.php?meny=23


 
What an awesome piece of machinery. The reversing procedure, even pulling up the next log, simple, economical and ingenious design.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 25, 2012)

Thanks--Great video. I see what you mean about shaping the saw like a broach.---brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 25, 2012)

So there we have it. The inner and outer frames are completed except for some cosmetic work. The inner saw frame slides up and down quite nicely between the two outer columns. (Thats not a saw blade in there---its my 6" machinists ruler----It just fits!!!)


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## Bastelmike (Nov 25, 2012)

Hello Brian,

excellent CAD-work ! And perfect 2D-drawings, You are really a professional ! 

One concern I have is using a standard gear profile for the ratchet. All ratchet drives have a special non-symmetric profile for the teeth to prevent the ratchet from slipping out to early (during the forward movement), hope the picture will clarify this.
But the rounded profile of the gears will make this possible, depending on the angles of force during the stroke.

Mike


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## bret4 (Nov 25, 2012)

Cogsy said:


> What an awesome piece of machinery. The reversing procedure, even pulling up the next log, simple, economical and ingenious design.



That second water wheel for reverse is a great idea. Someone put a lot of thought into getting the most out of water power on that one.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 25, 2012)

Bastelmike---It all depends on the angle of the dangle!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 25, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2012)

Here is the "eccentric shaft" made from 4 built up peices. Everything is positioned correctly, with a 3/8" square spacer between the "webs" and all joints drilled and reamed for .093" cold rolled "pins", cut from.093 cold rolled rod. After silver soldering, I will cut the longest shaft out between the webs, thus giving a "true" shaft with the correct offset to the "throw" journal. This is the way I build most crankshafts for model engines.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2012)

And here we have the finished eccentric shaft---All silver soldered, cut out, and ready to rock and roll!!! The con rod journal hasn't been polished, but since none of the siilver solder migrated onto it, thats okay. I will polish it later.


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## aonemarine (Nov 26, 2012)

How far will the log advance per crankshaft revolution??


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't know. That is why I have an adjustable eccentric . By dialing in the adjustable eccentric , I can set how much the log advances with each downstroke of the saw. The carriage sets still and doesn't advance at all when the saw is on the upstroke.It only advances on the downstroke of the sawblade and I am the guy that determines how much. Obviously, too much and it will stall the engine I have driving it. I would LIKE to think I could advance it about .030" each stroke, but I really don't know.


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## aonemarine (Nov 26, 2012)

.030 sounds like alot per stroke IMHO. If it doesnt cut the full depth for the amount of advance it could get ugly. Maybe try the blade out in a coping saw to get a feel for the blade pressure and the depth of cut?


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, now I know why I've been feeling so CRANKY all day.-----Groan----


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## aonemarine (Nov 26, 2012)

Looks great!!!   Would also make for a good interrogation device.  I'll leave it up to everyone's imagination as to what parts of the body could be feed into it for best results lol


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## skyline1 (Nov 27, 2012)

Hi Brian

You must live in your workshop mate. Yet another Rupnow creation takes shape before we mere mortals could even do the drawings. Amazing!

Regards Mark


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 27, 2012)

I had to go across town today and spend 8 hours working with a small company that gives me paying work from time to time. Then I came home, ate supper, and squeezed another few hours out of the day to whittle out this connecting rod. I got a bit excited and drilled the clearance holes in the rod cap, so had to thread the end of the con rod itself. Directly opposite of my drawings, but it works just the same. Everything goes round and round and up and down just like I had intended it to. I am almost at the point where I will have to buy material for the baseplate that everything gets mounted to.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 28, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 28, 2012)

There are a lot of things that I am unsure of regarding this sawmill. I have only ever seen one, and that was many years ago. I don't know if any of the engines I have are going to be powerful enough to drive it. I have studied as many videos as I can find on youtube, and sussed out how the ratchet and pawl /rack and pinion carriage drive worked. I have only seen ONE video that showed how the carriage was returned, and that was by a friction wheel engaging the ratchet wheel, and it was powered by a totally seperate water wheel. I was not aware that the saw was stopped while the carriage was returned, and consequently I have made no provision for that. I know that MY saw isn't going to stop---ever---unless I shut the engine off. I think that I will only provide enough length of rack under the carriage to saw my 6" long log, and then the drive pinion (which also never stops unless I disengage the pawl) will run out of rack teeth to engage, otherwise the carriage is going to hit the endstop and stall everything out. I haven't fully thought that one out yet.---Maybe I can imagineer something that rides on the carriage and lifts the pawl at the end of carriage travel. It would have to lift the pawl into a "detent" that keeps it disengaged while I either manually "crank" the carriage back to its home position, or devise a way to power return the carriage.---Brian


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## johnmcc69 (Nov 28, 2012)

Thinking out loud..
What about a disenganing clutch on the saws drive pulley?
maybe disengaging the pulley would drive a gear that would
return the carriage. A "Cone" drive?

John


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## aonemarine (Nov 28, 2012)

Add in a reverse gear that is flat belt driven with a hand lever to tension the belt to engage it and disengaged the paw?


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 28, 2012)

All good suggestions guys.The only limitation on mechanical wizardry is how much energy I am willing to put into the project. The first thing to be determined of course, is "Do I have an engine powerfull enough to run the saw and actually cut a 1" diameter log."---If the answer is yes, then we will move on from pushing the carriage by finger power into the saw, to adding some kind of ratchet/pawl/pinion/rack/whatever. If the answer is no, then I probably won't invest a lot more time or energy. Right now, I can finish almost everything except the carriage drive mechanism with very little more work. Yes, it would be nice to power the rack both ways, stop the saw during the carriage return, etcetera. I hadn't planned on that degree of sophistication when I started this project, but if a project garners enough interested people, sometimes it takes on a life of its own. I am quite confident that after 47 years in the mechanical engineering business, I can design damn near anything. Whether I can muster enough interest and energy to build what I am capable of designing is a whole 'nuther story.


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## lathe nut (Nov 28, 2012)

skyline1, not only does he live in the shop, he must not sleep, for sure his brain does not and on top of all of that he has a full time job, I would love just to have the drafting skills, love his post, thanks Brain, don't ever go away, now get some sleep, Lathe Nut


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## aonemarine (Nov 28, 2012)

Brian, I know exactly what you mean. For us following the build its easy to say you can add this or do that, but its the builder who has to put in the time.  Hand feeding it in sounds like a good idea for now, power feed and return can come later if desired.


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## Cogsy (Nov 28, 2012)

Admittedly it would be very slow, but I assume you could just flip the pawl around to the other side of the ratchet wheel to reverse the log.

Great build by the way!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 29, 2012)

My dad worked as a logger in the Bancroft area where I grew up, from the end of world war 2 untill the mid 1960's when logging had began to die out locally. All of my uncles were loggers as well, except one uncle who was a trapper. My father was always away in the logging camps all winter, and one of the loggers who worked with him did a lot of blacksmithing on a part time basis. A few years after my dads last camp shut down because of a bad accident in the bush, the logger/blacksmith showed up at our house with a quart of Canadian Club rye, and these logging tools for my dad. The cant hook is about 11" long, overall. The all metal item is a set of skidding tongs and I can't remember what the name of the other wooden item is. I know where it went, behind a single horse, and the logging chain hooked to the center of it, but Damned if I can remember its name. I want to call it a whipple tree, but that doesn't feel quite right. I had these miniature logging tools around my place for the longest time, setting in a cardboard box in a closet, until last year my wife took them to a professional frame shop and had them done up in the nice display case you see here. I thought that since this is a thread about sawmills, this would be a good place to show these little treasures.


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 29, 2012)

Tonight I made the 4" diameter flywheel from hotrolled steel.--At least I got a darn good start on it!!! The kid running the saw where I bought the round peice of hotrolled steel thought he would do me a favour and add an extra 1/2" of material to what I asked for. I had already asked for 1/4" longer than what I needed.--As a consequence, I have spent the evening turning 3/4" of 4" diameter material into swarf. I really don't like working with steel very much. I much prefer to machine aluminum or brass. However aluminum is too light and brass is far too expensive, so steel is what I used. This flywheel will have at least two grooves in the outer diameter to accept my 0.100" rubber o-ring drive belts.


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## ShopShoe (Nov 29, 2012)

Brian,

It's a single-tree.  There are also double-trees for two-horse hitches.

Can't wait for the sawmill to be on video.

--ShopShoe


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## lathe nut (Nov 29, 2012)

Brian thanks for the story, life was hard years ago what would he think of us today, down here in Louisiana there is a saw mill town that is now closed but still call by that name Bancroft, interesting the old timers say it was some fellow that came from way up north that move in to saw lumber.

Shoeshop, giving you age away, I remember hooking up to both the single and double tree, with mules that we use by the community.


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## skyline1 (Nov 30, 2012)

Hi Brian

That's an impressive bucket o' swarf, and judging from the colour of it you weren't hanging about. I agree with you, the "whistle" of a tool scything it's way through brass is is very relaxing.

Regards Mark


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 30, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 1, 2012)

Every day, I try to make at least one or two parts. Thats the only way I can chew my way through these projects. It's starting to come together. I got this far today, then realized that I don't have any of the correct bolts to attach the outer frames to the baseplate. However, the baseplate is finished, with all the holes drilled and tapped, and the ratchet wheel, pinions, shaft, and bearings are all mounted. Don't be alarmed if my parts don't exactly match the posted drawings. (For example the lack of grooves in the outer diameter of the flywheel.) I do a lot of "Test assembly" as I make these parts. They will get finished as per the drawings as things progress.


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## johnmcc69 (Dec 1, 2012)

Thats looking GREAT Brian. Any thoughts on the finish?
Will you be painting it? Can't wait to see it belted up to
an engine & making saw dust!

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 1, 2012)

John--I don't generally put any kind of finish on these things. There is always a lot of lubricating oil around, and the finish will just lift eventually. I leave everything in its natural state. Brass and aluminum won't rust, and the steel generally has enough oil on it that it won't rust either. I will probably use some kind of stain on the oak I use to make the carriage.


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## johnmcc69 (Dec 1, 2012)

Good point.
It looks fantastic the way it is.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah!!!! We got our first sawmill video.---


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 1, 2012)

Well NUTS!!! I thought I was going to be smart and show it cutting some wood. I managed to carbide a hole thru a brand new 18 TPI hacksaw blade, then put it into the vice to shorten it up---and as soon as I tightened the vice the blade broke in half. Not at the new hole, but about an inch away from it on the wrong side. Thats it!! I'm done for the day.


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## aonemarine (Dec 1, 2012)

brian, i cant see your videos.... sucks having to imagine its motion....


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 2, 2012)

aonemarine said:


> brian, i cant see your videos.... sucks having to imagine its motion....


There has to be something wrong with your computer settings. Everybody else in the world can see them. Maybe someone with more computer savvy than I can chime in and help you.----Brian


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## starnovice (Dec 2, 2012)

Great progress Brian.  Sorry about the saw blade, that is frustrating.

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 2, 2012)

I got up this morning and machined the adjustable eccentric wheel and the steel insert that bolts into it.  I have to check stock and see if I have any material to make the pawl from. This is getting exciting. The saw carriage is totally free now from being "ran in" on the lathe. I may have to add a counterbalance to the flywheel to offset the weight of the saw carriage, as I notice quite a difference in the torque required when lifting the saw frame as opposed to when it is going down with gravity assisting it.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 2, 2012)




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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 2, 2012)

This carriage advance system works unbelieveably slick!!! By adjusting the offset of the eccentric from the center of the mainshaft, I can make the pawl engage anywhere from 1 to 5 teeth on the ratchet wheel each time the mainshaft revolves once. I have to buy a shoulder bolt tomorrow for the connection at the top, but it works very good (but a bit wobbly) with just a standard #10 bolt in it.  I may have to add a second pawl to keep the log from backing away from the saw when the primary pawl is not engaged, but I have to "try it and see" first.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 3, 2012)

Tonight I made the end stands which will support the carriage mechanism. I haven't trimmed the angles to the finished height yet, because when I created the 3D model I didn't yet have the racks, so consequently didn't know the backing dimension on the racks. This backing dimension will determine the actual height of the carriage support beams and these end support angles. I have to do a bit of experimentation tomorrow, so that I will know at what distance between the drive pinions and the back of the rack things run the smoothest. Then I can establish the finished height of everything. I am going to be at the point where I have to start working with wood VERY SOON!!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 4, 2012)

I am closing in on the completed carriage support frame. I have made a few simple changes this morning to make fabrication a bit easier, but nothing I have posted so far will change.


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## bret4 (Dec 4, 2012)

Looking great! You sure work fast.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 4, 2012)

Well Dang!!!~ I'm impressed. The carriage support structure is all finished and assembled. In one of the pictures you can see the pinion gears that are going to engage with the rack which attaches to the underside of the carriage. The two long horizontal beams have .125 wide x 0.100 deep slots milled full length on the outsides. The carriage will ride on top of these beams, and  1/8" diameter brass pins thru the wooden structure of the carriage will ride in these slots and prevent the carriage from lifting up away from the support beams. You can see the rack laying beside the "sawmill". and what MIGHT become a set of reversing gears for the carriage. Its been a long day!!!


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## Swifty (Dec 4, 2012)

aonemarine said:


> brian, i cant see your videos.... sucks having to imagine its motion....



When photo bucket opens up there is an options button, press this and choose download. It will open a new page and you should have the video. I was having problems for a while, not being able to see videos, but pictures were ok.

Paul.


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## aonemarine (Dec 4, 2012)

Swifty said:


> When photo bucket opens up there is an options button, press this and choose download. It will open a new page and you should have the video. I was having problems for a while, not being able to see videos, but pictures were ok.
> 
> Paul.



Thanks Paul, ill try it out when I get home.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 4, 2012)

bret4 said:


> Looking great! You sure work fast.


 Thanks Bret4!!! Yes, I do work fast, especially on something that interests me. Its not so much a matter of working fast as it is puting in a LOT of hours. I am "semi-retired" which means that there are days where I don't have any 'paying' engineering work. Those days, its not unusual for me to put in a solid 8 or 9 hours in my machine shop. As someone else pointed out "I must be some kinda maniac!!!". After days like today, I have to agree with them.-----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 5, 2012)

Well, we have a blade, and it does cut!!! I went to Home Depot this morning and bought a 10/14 sawzall blade. I had to cut it to the correct length and carbide a couple of new holes in it. I looked at a 10TPI blade which was labeled for wood only, but it just looked too aggresive. This blade was marked for wood or metal. It seems to cut just fine. I didn't post a video of me making the cut, because all the Safety Natzi's would have had a field day roasting me. Suffice it to say that it does cut, and cuts very well, under hand pressure pushing the log into the reciprocating blade. Now the exciting part will be to see what happens with my carriage feed.


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## johnmcc69 (Dec 5, 2012)

Awesome Brian! Almost time to belt up the hit-n-miss.

John


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## bret4 (Dec 5, 2012)

Are you setting the blade at an angle so it pulls back from the cut on the up stroke or is it just strait up and down?

It is so cool to see this project come to life. This is something that will be fun to demonstrate for family and friends. I'd like to run one of these on a steam engine. Wonder how big the engine will have to be?


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 5, 2012)

Here is a picture of the sawmill being driven by the Atkinson engine. Look quick---I can't get any of my engines to run the way I want them to this afternoon!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 5, 2012)

And here we have the sawmill driven by my Webster. Of course, my dilemna is that both the Webster and the Atkinson are air cooled, and consequently I don't want to run them too long, because they will overheat. On the other hand, my Kerzel hit and miss (Which I can't get started right now) is watercooled, and could conceivably set there and "chuff" away all day without overheating. These small engines should be taken off the shelf and ran at least once every three months. If you don't, they become like recalcitrant children, and don't want to perform on demand. They get gummed up with dust and crud that sticks in the oil and it doesn't take much to throw these little guys off. Anyway, enough foolioshness for now. My supper is calling me!!!


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## starnovice (Dec 5, 2012)

Some days you eat the bear and some days he eats you 

Still great progress and thank you for sharing it.

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 5, 2012)

Bret--Right now the blade is just straight up and down. However, I can easily change it over to an angle if that works better. I am fumbling my way along here, with no prior knowledge of this type of mill. I seen one once, must have been 30 years ago, and I don't think it was operating. Any knowledge I have currently has been gleaned from Youtube videos.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 5, 2012)

I went back thru my engine files, and I was mistaken about bore size. The Kerzel hit and miss is the smallest, at 0.75" bore. The Webster is larger, at .875" bore, and the Atkinson is the largest, at 1" bore. For the (very brief) time that I had the Atkinson engine running the sawmill this afternoon, it was really wailing away with no apparent strain on the engine. The Webster seemed to be working fairly hard. Now that I know that my Kerzel hit and miss engine is the smallest bore of the lot, I may have to rethink  which engine I will run the sawmill with. The Atkinson is just a funky enough engine that it would have great eye appeal when set up to run the sawmill, and no lack of power either. Since both the cylinder and the piston on the Atkinson are made of grey cast iron, I don't know if the threat of overheating is real or not. The other thing is, I don't plan on going into the sawmilling business, so to start the engine and run it for 15 to 20 minutes at a stretch to saw a log may not be that big an issue.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 6, 2012)

Nothing accomplished today---I'm sick!!! Grand daughter brought home something really nasty from kindergarden. Both her parents are sick. Her other grandmas sick. My wife's sick. Now I'm sick. Of course granddaughter is better now. Shivering, shaking, upset guts. Damn I hate being sick!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 6, 2012)

Too sick to work.---Not too sick to CAD!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2012)

This morning I bought the material to build my carriage. Total cost was about $3.00 at a local trim and molding supply house. then I went to BusyBee tools and bought some drill/countersink combinations to work with #6 woodscrews. I have realized that by screwing from the underside, all of the woodscrew heads will be hidden after the carriage is mounted in place. I will glue all of the joints as well, with Elmers wood glue, but I have always had a basic mistrust of glue, based on the fact that everything I ever glued together with no other mechanical fasteners eventually fell apart. Big John--I will go back and look at the video again.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2012)

I have been criticized (lightly) by someone on another forum because my model doesn't exactly match their vision of what this type of mill really looked like.I just went back and looked at the file of pictures someone posted of an old mill. I see what they mean about the end members on the carriage having sawcuts "Just deep enough". I have seen other videos where the carriage set-up is very similar to what I have designed. The models I build are not true "scale" models. They are representative of old machinery, and I do take some "license" with the design, either to make it easier to manufacture or to the design I would have made if I had been the engineer at the time. Please don't take offence if what I model is not exactly what you may have seen. I post all of my design drawings, and if someone else wants to use them to build a working model and change any of the drawings to a design that pleases them better, then that is perfectly acceptable to me.---Brian


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## starnovice (Dec 8, 2012)

Considering you never claimed to be making a "reproduction"  I think your work is fantastic.  Anybody, with enough patience, can copy a design, it takes a genius to derive a design.

Thank you Brian for all of your derivations, I find them very educational.

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2012)

And here we have a carriage.--At least here we have it with all peices sawn out and mocked up into an approximation of what it will look like when all screwed and glued together. The two crossmembers closest to the center will be left solid untill they are actually cut by the saw in the sawmill. Now for a bunch of glueing and screwing. I have to say, at this point, that the accuracy of my $25 yard sale tablesaw leaves a great deal to be desired!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2012)

Nasty, tricky damn stuff, that wood is!!! I couldn't figure out how to hold everything square, drill it and screw it together all at the same time.So---I used half a cord of wood scraps to build a jig to hold everything in the correct relationship while I did it.  Now, if I have lived right, (cough! cough!) in the morning when I dismantle the jig from around the carriage, it should all be perfectomundo. I really hope that none of the 16 screws come thru the top side of the jig. (They're not supposed to). I know that some of the heads are a bit proud, but I will either mill or grind them down flush to the surface of the wood after everything has set up. I didn't want to tighten them so much that I split any of the hardwood.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 8, 2012)

Now I get to wear my dunce cap. I was just looking for something in my shop and I see a note on the wall that I had written to myself at some time in the past. It says"Atkinson-counterclockwise-----Webster-counterclockwise-----Kerzel hit and miss--CLOCKWISE!!! I couldn't get the Kerzel to start earlier this week. Now you know why. I was turning the friggin thing the wrong way!!!


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## Herbiev (Dec 9, 2012)

Dont feel too bad Brian. At least your engines turn


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 9, 2012)

The carriage turned out splendid!! None of the 1" x #6 woodscrews came thru the top, and the squareness tolerances came out well within "Rupnow Limits". Up until about an hour ago I had no firm plan in place for attaching the steel racks to the underside of the carriage. A quick root thru my cupboards unveiled some very small nails, with a diameter of .050"  x 0.875" long with a head .079" diameter. I found a dia. 0.056 drill to drill thru the racks at the root of the teeth 5 places on the underside of each rack and then found a 2mm (0.080") dia two flute endmill to act as a counterbore and allow the head of the nail to be down below the surface of the root of the gear rack. Last but not least I scrounged up a dia 0.045 drill to pre bore the hardwood of the carriage before nailing the racks in place. As a security measure, I will spread a thin coat of 5 minute epoxy between the rack and the hardwood before setting the nails.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 9, 2012)

There comes a time in every project like this, where you have to do something that you are not absolutely sure how it was done originally. Or perhaps you do know, and either you don't like it or consider it too much work to exactly replicate. I am at that stage now. I have to hold the "log" to the carriage securely while it is cut, but I still have to be able to advance whatever mechanism is holding the log in even incrememts so that I can saw boards from it. My "boards" will be 0.150" thick, a number I have arbitrarily picked.The grey colored mechanism which actually holds the log will be made of aluminum, purely because I have lots of it. The "log" will be pre-drilled to accept 2 "pins" (the blue colored ones) which pass thru the log holding mechanism and thru the log as well. they will be made from cold rolled steel, and the shank will be 0.030" diameter--They are not hammered into place---just a good fit.. That looks after securing the log. You can see that the grey log holding mechanism fits into slots in the carriage beams. This log holding mechanism has a series of holes in each end, drilled 0.150" apart. the light brownish pink colored pins pass thru a clearance hole in the carriage beams and thru the appropriate hole in the log holding mechanism. This is what allows me to "set the log over" in 0.150" increments to cut boards. Will it work?--Yes of course it will. Is it an authentic reproduction of anything?--No, of course it isn't.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 9, 2012)

And here is a little video that shows how I just spent a large share of my day---


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## starnovice (Dec 9, 2012)

Wow! That is really looking good Brian!

th_wav


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## idahoan (Dec 9, 2012)

Lookin good Brian,

It's going to be a treat seeing it run by one of your engines sawing away!

Thaks,
Dave


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## Shopguy (Dec 9, 2012)

Brian,
Your approach to your models is to be commended. True they aren't exact replicas but work very well and are an inspiration to the rest of us. Keep up the good work sir. And thanks for sharing
Ernie J


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## gbritnell (Dec 10, 2012)

Hi Brian,
I can't say I ever saw a mill like the type you are building in action but with the circular types the first couple of cuts were made on the log to produce a flat surface. The log was then rolled onto that surface to clean up the next side and so forth and so on until a squared up log was made. The actual board making process was then started. I would have to think that even with this earlier design a similar process would have been used otherwise the edges of the sawn boards would need to be run through this or another saw to square up the edges. 
I'm assuming with what you have proposed to hold your 'log' down that you aren't concerned with squared edges but rather just cutting boards from the log. 
I understand your mill is not prototypical but rather a very nice working facsimile but why not for the sake of operation just start with a squared up 'log'. That way it would be more stable and you could use a more simplified hold down mechanism. 
Your mill is coming along great and I for one can't wait to see some boards produced. 
gbritnell


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## Jasonb (Dec 10, 2012)

Looking good Brian

Through and through sawing as we know it is where the log is not turned is quite common so no problem with teh way you have done things. The resulting boards are known as "waney edge"


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 11, 2012)

As my friend Shania once said, "This don't impress me much!!! When you get down to the scale I'm working at, there are a very limited number of ways to hold onto a 1" diameter log and still have enough log left to saw. I am going to try this, knowing that it may work just fine, then again, it may not work worth a poop. Its not costing money anyways, just a bit of time. I haven't got much done this past week, because of the stomach flue from Hell and a couple of days of real work, however, we will forge on boldly.---By the way, I made a mistake in the previous post. Those "pins" that hold the log in place will be 1/16" diameter, not 1/32" as originally posted.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 12, 2012)

So this morning, I took my chainsaw and went down to the long swamp and cut down a "Barkless Beech". They only grow around Barrie. I skidded it up out of the swamp with my team of trained field mice until I could hook onto it with the winch cable of my Steam Donkey, and winched it up to the mill. I didn't have any 3/16" aluminum plate to make the log holder from, but I did have a nice chunk of brass left over from another job. Everything fits quite well, and the log seems to be quite solid in its holder.


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## Cogsy (Dec 13, 2012)

Looking very good, can't wait to see the sawdust fly!

A bit off topic, but I've looked at this thread so often, Google has started serving me ads for portable sawmills from just $3997...


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 13, 2012)

Since I seem to be going the "Whole Mile" in terms of posting engineering drawings for this project, I thought I might as well post up the ratchet wheel and its handle. This morning I did a "final fitment" on all the components and then took the carriage off, cleaned it up and sanded it, and applied a coat of stain. It looks quite fancy!!


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## skyline1 (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi Brian

Almost finished now, Can't wait to see the sawdust.

You must have needed a 3 mouse team to haul that monster log up, and I might know what your next project could be, miniature chainsaw to match. You've gotta keep the sawmill "fed" (and your "shire mice").

Regards Mark


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## sssfox (Dec 13, 2012)

Are you taking orders for tiny lumber?
I could use some.

Very nice, you did a great job!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 14, 2012)

Betya I've got the classiest carriage in Barrie!!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm down to the point where I have only 2 small parts left to make. Since I don't have unlimited room to stop the carriage by lifting the pawl away from the ratchet wheel at the end of a cut, I decided something automatic would be best. The blue bent rod is silver soldered to the pawl. The purple block is screwed to the side of the carriage frame. When the carriage has reached the point at which the log is fully sawed through, the purple block will lift the pawl away from the ratchet wheel and the carriage won't feed any farther.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 15, 2012)

By the end of today we will be ready to rock and roll!!! Of course this means that I either have to A--Use my variable speed drill as a power unit, or B-Try and figure out just why my Atkinson engine quit right in the middle of a video the last time I used it.


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## johnmcc69 (Dec 15, 2012)

Wow Brian, that is a spectacular piece of workmanship
& model engineering. I love the simplicity of all the mechanisms.
I really hope you get the Atkinson running, that will be one COOL
little video.

Just awesome...

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 15, 2012)

Well kids, its done like dinner!!! Today I added on an automatic pawl disengaging mechanism to stop the carriage after the log has passed completely thru the saw, and made up some knurled head pins to hold the log in the log holder and to position the log holder on the carriage for cutting succesive board thicknesses. In this view the carriage has fully reached its end of travel, and the pawl disengagement mechanism has stopped the carriage. The next post SHOULD be a video of the mill in operation. I have no idea right now how rapidly I can advance the carriage into the log (it is an adjustable feed), so I don't know how long the video will be.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, we're not quite there yet, but the results are encouraging. In the video you will hear me miss speak and say "lever" when I meant to say "trigger" when I was talking about the electric drill. I have to add a second pawl, but other than that things seem to be working the way I intended.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2012)

My idea of adding a second pawl worked like a charm!! The ratchet wheel doesn't back up at all now during the power feed. Only problem is, now the carriage feed is too aggresive, even on its lowest "one tooth advance" setting. The saw wants to cut, but my single 0-ring drive belt begins to slip. I will make a two groove pulley for the drill and try with twin drive belts next. I actually did see on one of the sets of plans I have looked at on youtube, that they have added a gear between the pawl and the main ratchet wheel to slow the ratchet wheel advance down by 50%.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2012)

Final Video----For now!!!


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## Herbiev (Dec 16, 2012)

Great video Brian. The scale and speed seem perfect. Regarding the slippage, would chain and sprockets be the answer?


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2012)

Herbiev--I'm kind of at a loss right now, not sure which direction I'm going next. The only way I can slow down the rate of carriage travel is by adding a small gear between the pawl and the 4" diameter ratchet gear which would drive the carriage at half its current rate of travel per blade stroke.---Or, as you said, a more positive drive that won't slip. Before I do anything, I'm going to try sawing a piece of 1" balsa. If that works, I'll consider the job done without making any modifications.


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## f350ca (Dec 16, 2012)

Nice work Brian. If you have access to a wood cutting bandsaw blades, a section of one might cut easier, They'd be a little thiner, hence less drag, and the larger teeth and hook angle give more room for the cuttings.

Greg


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## kcmillin (Dec 16, 2012)

Awesome Job Brian,

I have been following along since the beginning and I find your design skill and problem solving is truly top notch. Thank you for sharing the drawings of all your conceived contraptions with us. I am sure they will get built many times over.

Kel


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks Guys!!! Its nice to know people have a look and take interest in the "contraptions". Of course, I like it a lot better when everything works right first time out, but Hey---We'll get there!!!---Brian


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## rodw (Dec 16, 2012)

Brian, as a noob, I have been fascinated by this project of yours, and it was interesting to see it finally running. 

I must say I wondered how your pawl system was going to work initially and now I see you added a second smaller dog.

A similar drive existed on a uniquely Australian invention found in almost any shearing shed in the country; the Warrego woolpress which I used quite a lot in my younger days before hydraulic rams took over. You can see the drive wheel in this picture and the 1 man power lever that drove it! I think it was the only two drive pawl system I have seen and used until now.






The wool press consisted of a top box and a bottom box hinged on one side so they could stand side by side and a winch pole at the back let you wind a handle to winch the top box over.






So you started with both boxes side by side, lined the bottom box with a hessian wool bale, fill both boxes with wool, tramped it down with your feet to warm up before the main event. Then winch the top box over, attach the steel cables to the plate at the top of the tower and grabbing the handle pump away with a nice click clack sound from the pawls (dogs we called them) until the bale was formed. As the bale got down a bit, the click clacks got slower as the operator moved up the handle from a one handed action to two handed using every last inch of the lever. If the wool presser had been overly ambitious, he'd be calling on a mate to get the last few clicks down! Once down, you drive some pins through to hold the wool down and then fasten the bale with sharp hooked wire bale fasteners before removing the pins and opening the front door to let the freshly formed bale spring out. Maximum weight was 450 lb and there were handling penalties applied to overweight bales when they got to market.

I figured I was pretty safe showing you this without giving you an idea for a new model because it lacked an engine to drive it


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## bret4 (Dec 17, 2012)

f350ca said:


> Nice work Brian. If you have access to a wood cutting bandsaw blades, a section of one might cut easier, They'd be a little thiner, hence less drag, and the larger teeth and hook angle give more room for the cuttings.
> 
> Greg



I agree, a wood cutting bandsaw blade with less teeth on it would be a bit more aggressive and cut more freely.


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## Jasonb (Dec 17, 2012)

Brian as I said early on in this thread its very easy to cut a ratchet wheel either using the edge of an endmill or a small fly cutter. You could easily cut a 4" diameter 200tooth gear which would slow your feed rate right down.

J


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 17, 2012)

Jasonb said:


> Brian as I said early on in this thread its very easy to cut a ratchet wheel either using the edge of an endmill or a small fly cutter. You could easily cut a 4" diameter 200tooth gear which would slow your feed rate right down.
> 
> J


Jason--Your definition of "very easy" may be a bit different than mine, but you're right. Probably less work in that than any alternative hocus pocus.---Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 17, 2012)

Here is a download link to the drawings of this mill as .pdf files. Choose the "slow download" option. Its free and its not all that slow.---Brian
http://www.filefactory.com/file/6st1me5pmy5z/


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## aonemarine (Dec 17, 2012)

What if the paw that rotates the gear was spring loaded so that it would not advance the carrige would not advance unless there was very little pressure on the blade?    I got a thing for springs lol.....


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 19, 2012)

I haven't put this one to bed yet. Its just that my "real work" as design engineer has suddenly got very busy, and I'm working like mad every day to round out my year end. I have found it impossible to buy 1" round balsa in Canada---the only place I could find was a source in Colorado and they want $5 for a 24" length of 1" dia. balsa and $32 to ship it to me.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 21, 2012)

HOT DIGGITY POOP!!!! I'm a Sawyer!!! All it took was a double drive belt and a softer log. This is so NEAT!!!--Video to follow.-----Brian Rupnow .saw


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 21, 2012)

Video---As promised. Thanks ever so much to all who followed my build. I may get around to running it with my Atkinson, I may not. Its been a great project, it works, and I'm ready to move on. I really am interested in building a small clutch, and that will probably be my next project.


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## Cogsy (Dec 21, 2012)

Beautiful work as usual, but I really want to see it running with model engine power!


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## Tarheel (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks Brian - another great project !


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## starnovice (Dec 23, 2012)

Now you can sell small boards that can be used for lagging on small steam engines 

Great job again!

th_wav

Pat


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## IronHorse (Dec 23, 2012)

Nice Job! It's great when you can see a model doing work.


IronHorse


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 29, 2012)

Someone emailed me and wanted a better look at the sawn boards.  Here you go Uute. I used some of the boards to build a doll crib for one of my grand daughters, but these three boards are pretty well representative of the sawn boards. If I was going to use them to make fine furniture, I would have to design and build a mini planing mill.


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## Brian Rupnow (Dec 29, 2012)

It seems I have been terribly remiss and not posted all of the information about the rack and pinion drive used on the carriage. A few people who have downloaded the plans and want to build this sawmill have been asking where I got them. So---Here is all the information.----Brian


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## starnovice (Dec 29, 2012)

Brian Rupnow said:


> ... If I was going to use them to make fine furniture, I would have to design and build a mini planing mill.



Hmmmm, another project 

Pat


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## StarRocker (Jan 22, 2013)

Wow! I really enjoy the 'Saw Mill' chatter!!  I have an album 'Steam Traction Engine' that has a couple photos of a saw mill that I ran in my classroom as part of a unit in Jr High science class on the historical development of energy.  The saw mill was run by a water wheel set-up and or a steam engine.  I am new at this site so I don't know it very well!! Thank you.


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 20, 2013)

Now that the Odds and ends engine is mostly finished, I am going to revisit this thread. The sawmill took more power to drive it than I thought it would when I first designed it. This is not so much because of the power required to drive the saw, as it is the rate at which the carriage advances the saw into the log. I had used a variable pitch pawl to adjust this speed, but the lowest amount I could advance was one gear tooth at a time. Couldn't adjust to go any slower than that. I have thought about this problem, and the only way to reduce the speed of the carriage advance was to make a gear with a finer pitch, put in a smaller gear just above the existing gear so that I had an actual gear reduction, or go to a larger gear than the one I am currently using. Tonight I dug thru the change gears for my lathe and found a 125 tooth gear, which would give the carriage a 25% reduction in advance speed over the 100 tooth gear it is currently using. Since a lot of what I done on the sawmill was shear "guesswork", I have to try any changes and "see what happens" rather than calculate an outcome. The addition of a larger gear is by far the easiest thing to do, since the larger gear has the same center hole as the current 100 tooth gear, and will fit the existing arbor with no changes. Ultimately, I would like to use one of my i.c. engines, driving thru the cone clutch I designed and built to power the sawmill. Both the Odds and Ends and the Atkinson have 1" diameter pistons, and roughly equal strokes, so the power output should be the same from both of them. The only real difference is that the Atkinson is a throttled engine and is air cooled which limits its running time, while the Odds and ends is a non throttled engine and is water cooled. I will keep you informed of what happens.


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## starnovice (Mar 20, 2013)

Never a dull moment with you Brian.  Again I am on the edge of my seat!

Pat


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 23, 2013)

Having decided to get serious about this sawmill being run by one of my gasoline engines, I decided to replace the rubber o-ring drive belts with a #35 roller chain and sprockets between the clutch and the main "headshaft". They are amazingly inexpensive at Princess Auto, and they don't suck up nearly as much power as the rubber o-rings do, nor do they slip.


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## seagar (Mar 23, 2013)

I just love watching your projects Brian,I wish you were my next door neighbour.

Regards, Ian (seagar)


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 23, 2013)

Seagar---I assume NSW is New South Wales, right? I kinda wish we were next door neighbours too.----Brian


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 24, 2013)

So--a bit of design time in early this morning before goodwife gets up, and I think I've found a good position to mount the clutch and the sprockets and chain.


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 24, 2013)

Yowzah!!! That went pretty easy, all things considered. I wanted to get the clutch mounted to the sawmill frame. That way I can move it as a unit and run it with whatever engine I want. I haven't changed the pawl gear yet, but I'll do it this weekend.


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 24, 2013)

This turned out to be almost a full days thrash!!! I thought things seemed a bit stiff after everything was assembled, so out to the big garage where its about 2 degrees above freezing I went.I pulled off the adjustable pawl wheel from the non sprocket end of the mainshaft and put an 8" v-pulley on it. I disconnected the connecting rod that drives the sawframe up and down, and hooked the sawmill up to a 1/2 HP electric motor that I have as a spare bandsaw motor. I was going to let it run for an hour and "free things up". It ran for about 15 minutes and the clutch seized up. Smoke show from the v-belt. Damn!!! Pulled the clutch off and took it all apart, fully expecting a seized up bearing. It wasn't a seized bearing. The rotating shaft had "picked up" from the front aluminum housing bore and galled bad enough to stop all rotation. After a lot of head scratching and nasty words and big hammer and press work, I got the clutch apart, cleaned up the shaft, cleaned up the aluminum housing bore, greased everything and put it all back together. Then decided "In for a dime, in for a dollar" and changed out the 100 tooth sprag wheel for a 125 tooth sprag wheel (They are change gears out of my lathe). Now I have to go begging at the o-ring supplier and get a pair of .150 cross section o-rings to use as primary drive belts between the Odds and Ends engine and the clutch. I also have to mount my new fuel tank on the Odds and Ends hit and miss engine. Hopefully the weather will start to co-operate soon and the big garage warms up enough for me to set everything up and take a video of sawing a "log" under hit and miss engine power.


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## aonemarine (Mar 24, 2013)

I'll be looking forward to that video.


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## jixxerbill (Mar 24, 2013)

I can't wait to see the video Brian.


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 29, 2013)

Hopefully, this is where I'm going next. I need some warm weather now to get this set up out into my big garage and get it out of my office. Once I get it set up and running, then I can play around with a different blade and maybe different blade angles. I will probably "borrow" some version of Jim Dunmyers Pawl lockout lever. This picture shows the 125 tooth "ragwheel" gear, which was previously 100 tooth. This is to slow the carriage advance down and consequently take some of the load off the engine.


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## johnmcc69 (Mar 29, 2013)

Looking good Brian. Can't wait to see the chips fly.
Great design on the saw. Should be a nice sound when running.

John


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## Brian Rupnow (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm setting here rather perplexed at the moment. The Odds and Ends engine, with its 1" bore, doesn't seem to have sufficient power to run the mill. I have the feeling that the clutch mechanism is still binding when under power, as the smaller engines I have ran the mill quite capably with a direct belt drive to the sawmill.  I really had hi hopes for a sawing video this afternoon, but it looks like that isn't going to happen.  I know that Jim Dunmyer is building one of these clutches right now from my plans, and I'm sure he won't have a problem with it because his engine is much larger than mine, so even if there is a bit of binding in the clutch a bigger engine will very quickly "wear it in". I have tried to run the mill by getting my engine running, then popping the o-ring drive belts onto it, but when I do it just dies down and gives up on me. I will get to the bottom of this, and I will have a video---just not as soon as I had hoped.


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## Brian Rupnow (May 9, 2013)

Success is so sweet!!! Sometimes it just takes a while. Here is the video I have been promising for the last 3 months, of the Odds and Ends hit and miss engine I built this past winter, driving the sawmill I designed and built last year, thru the clutch I designed this winter. It is running a new sawblade that Jim Dunmyer sent me. He has built this sawmill and exhibited it at a show in Florida, and done some experimenting to see what blade would cut with the least amount of drag on the engine. The sawmill works like a charm. The new design of clutch seems to work perfectly with no drag at all on the engine, when engaged or disengaged. I will be posting all the details for this clutch on my thread "Clutch---Again". The Odds and Ends engine seems to be working very well. Right at the very end of the video, where it quits going into "miss" mode, the engine had warmed up and was running a bit rich. After I was finished the video I turned the needle in about 1/4 turn, and the engine speeded up at the leaner setting and went back into its hit and miss cycle. I am so happy to have been able to finally post a video showing all these components working so well together. Thanks for all the interest that has been displayed over the winter, as I've fought my way through all this.----Brian


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## aonemarine (May 9, 2013)

That went really well. I'm surprised at the speed that it went, thought it would be much slower. Nice work Brian!


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## FannBlade (May 10, 2013)

Very cool!


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## Brian Rupnow (May 14, 2013)

I cut my first REAL board today!!! Up until now, I have been cutting balsa wood, thinking that my small engines just weren't powerful enough to saw anything tougher. Today I ran out of engineering work about 10:00 A.M. so I decided to turn a piece of spruce to a 1" diameter "log", which my log holder on the sawmill fits. It made one Hell of a mess of my lathe, but the good news is that the sawmill went through it without any hesitation!!! Jim Dunmyer---If you see this take heed. Using a gear reduction and clutch like I show in the previous video, I'm sure even your smaller engines could run your sawmill with no trouble.---Brian


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## aonemarine (May 14, 2013)

Hmm, wonder if it will cut aluminum???


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## larry1 (May 15, 2013)

Brian,    Great work,  Great pictures, thank you for posting pictures.      larry


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## NEL957 (Jul 7, 2013)

Brian 
I would like to make a larger scaled machine. Could I get some drawing of your take on the sawmill? I've watched for a while in anticipation of your progress. I just loved your design.
Nelson Collar


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## Brian Rupnow (Jul 8, 2013)

Nel957--The sawmill does indeed work very well. A gentleman from Maine or Minnesota has built a version of it and is running demonstrations of it cutting boards all over USA. Send me your real address to [email protected] and I will send you the pdf files for it.---Brian Rupnow


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