# Lathe accident, Tool organizer, bad idea.



## Scota4570 (May 22, 2011)

A good friend hurt himself very badly. He has many many years of experience as a machinist and gunsmith. He has a wonderfull shop. 

The machine is a big Lablond, 15x56 or there abouts. He has a phase changer in the shop to run it. 

He made a magnetic system to hold his lathe tool holders. It was located behind the lathe and above. He was making a cut and reached over the spindle to put a tool away. The work was rough enough to grab his sleeve. The work wound his arm up around it several times. It pulled his head down to the chuck and cut off part of his ear. Just then the circut breaker kicked off. If he had been running faster the inerta would have killed him. If running slower the torque would have killed him. 

Finding himself alone and wrapped up in the machine he was able to kick the clutch petal and unwind himself. He was able to call 911 and get help. 

He had several compound fractures of the bones in his arm and his hand was mangled. This thumb is ruined. The arm healed up pretty well. Modern medicine amazes me. He is still getting around and making lots of great projects and having fun. 

Gads, It makes me queasy to write this.


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## steamer (May 22, 2011)

NO long sleeve shirts,rings, or loose clothing......WORD!


Check out a thread called "Safety is an attitude" as it talks about this situation....and lets not go into the glove discussion....they don't belong anywhere near a lathe.


Dave


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## Swede (May 25, 2011)

I HATE reading about accidents like this, because we can all see it in our minds.

I don't allow cloth wipes, towels, anything near my machine tools. I use paper towels, toilet paper is good for wiping oil and such. Anything that is frail enough to tear and shred before pulling a part of you into a machine is fine.

And of course, gloves... I actually do occasionally use them - but they are the purple nitrile gloves you see the airport and medical people wear. They too will fall apart before any damage is done.


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## mklotz (May 25, 2011)

I'm very sorry about what happened to this fellow but, nevertheless, I have to make one comment.

A tool rack behind the lathe such that he has to lean across the spinning work to reach the rack? Give me a break.

If you're interested in safety, you'll immediately see how bad an idea this has to be. Installing that rack wasn't a spur of the moment thing. He had plenty of time to reflect on its eventual use and the potential for danger it represented.


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## Cbowler (May 25, 2011)

Thank you for bringing this accident to the groups attention. I have seen many photos of tooling shelves installed behind lathes and had that arrangement myself. I will be moving shop in the coming months and had planned on installing a similar arrangment but will defintley not, having read your post.
I hope your friend is OK.
Colin


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## mu38&Bg# (May 25, 2011)

I decided against a shelf over the lathe and put everything at the tailstock end of the lathe. Reading that made me quiver.


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## Foozer (May 25, 2011)

Left is Death and Life is Right. 

Everything for my little lathe is out by the tail stock end. It only takes a moment of distraction for an injury to occur, as age creeps up these moments seem to occur more often. Developing habits that keep the body parts away from rotating objects should one of them senior moments occur, should keep all them fingers right where they belong.

Robert

Edit: Think I'll add a land line phone near the tools. just in case.


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## kvom (May 25, 2011)

Another reason I try to use my collet chuck whenever possible. Much safer than chucks with jaws.


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## Troutsqueezer (May 25, 2011)

Another reason why I'm sticking with my HF mini lathe. It can hurt you but probably won't break your arm or kill you.


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## steamer (May 25, 2011)

I have a "Big" lathe...though it's small compared to some ( 12") ...Yes it could kill you...

But after having it, I wouldn't want to trade it down.  I need to respect it what it can do and behave appropriately.  Life is full of risks..but I think I'm safer running my 12 x 39 Logan than during my commute to work every day.
 :

Dave


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## Captain Jerry (May 25, 2011)

When I see a post title like this, I cringe but I force myself to read it. I don't fear my tools but I am aware of the need to be aware of what can happen. Here is a potential problem that I am trying to deal with. 

We don't talk much about automatic actions. On my 9x20 lathe, there are three things that I do with my left hand. 

  1. Turn the Start/Stop switch.

  2. Pull the belt tension lever to change speed.

  3. Grab the chuck key ( suspended by a counterweight above and left of the headstock).

With enough repetition, these things become automatic. When my left hand gets an alert to do something, it sometimes gets the message garbled. I have become aware of this and know that I must check to be sure it's doing the right thing. The biggest danger that I see is that if I want to change the belt, my right hand is probably headed for the chuck to roll the spindle a bit to assist the belt change. If my left hand decides to go for the start switch instead, I could be in a world of hurt. Hasn't happened yet and WON'T!!

Be careful out there.

Jerry


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## Tin Falcon (May 26, 2011)

sounds like several safety rules were violated. that is often the case when someone gets hurt. while thew smaller machines are well smaller . they are still designed to cut metal/ Flesh and bone is a bit softer material . and while a 7x may not break an arm i would not want to wear a 80lb lathe because it caught a piece of loose clothing. 
Unfortunately it is usually the journeymen that get careless. The new guy still has a healthy dose of fear and respect for the machines. and the master has been around long enough to know that no one is immune to an accident and we all need to remember 
be ever vigilant.
Tin


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## Scota4570 (Jun 4, 2011)

kvom  said:
			
		

> Another reason I try to use my collet chuck whenever possible. Much safer than chucks with jaws.



It was not the chuck that grabbed him, it was the surface of the work. It was rough enough to grab his sweathshirt, like velcro would. It was a cold morning. He was wearing a sweatshirt. I know I do not wait for shirtsleeve weather to work in my shop. It was a freak accident that, in hindsite, was preventable. He has over 50-years experience. My point in posting it was about having a neat organized tool rack on the splash guard behind the machine is a poor idea. 

Everyone, think ahead, don't rush, and stay safe.


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## Krutch (Dec 8, 2012)

I know this post is old and I'm new to this site. 
But this reminds me of the guy in the auto shop next to where I worked as a machinist some years ago. He was the owner of the auto repair shop and was in there alone refinishing a crankshaft. He got caught in the machine and it wound his arm up. He was able to stop the machine but had to cut himself away from it to call for help. We, at the shop next door, were not aware of his predicument until the ambulance showed up. I bearly knew the guy only from seeing him in around the area. It stuck with me thinking of him cutting his arm off to free himself. My understanding was there was not much left to cut to get free. It was said he used a pair of side cutter pliers to do it.
I try to be aware anytime I work at the lathe. But I do catch myself taking chances from time to time. Could happen at the mill too!


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## dman (Dec 8, 2012)

in the airforce safety briefings are a big thing. and you also hear stories from other shops since in the military we tend to move around. it seems two relatively common accidents are getting a sleeve caught in a machine (not so common in the military since we must be in short sleeves and wear safety glasses but we do see civilian accidents in the safety briefings) and files driving through forearms because they have no handle. i have seen a photo that circulated around to put the fear of death into us about safety of a guy runnign a lathe in many layers of clothing and everything from his left arm to his neck and much of his clothing was wrapped up in the wokpiece before the spindle stopped. very disturbing. 

the file in the forearm i have heard both from witnesses and in safety briefings similar stories. the results are usually similar where a 8" or 10" file gets caught in the jaws and the end drives into the forearm near the wrist and either breaks a bone or lands between the two bones. the entry hole is small and the skin stretches, the file gets completely engulfed in the forearm and it ends up looking like a small wound and the arm is very swollen as if broken. the person usually passes out from pain or shock and is found by coworkers in a pool of blood who are unaware of the nature of the accident. just looks like a cut and a broken arm x-rays at the hospital reveal a file deep in the arm which is when they finally put the pieces together of what happened....


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## starnovice (Dec 8, 2012)

I have a friend that insists on reaching over the head stock to file on the lathe.  I called him on it and he insisted he has never had any problems do it that way.  I replied, well I guess you will stop doing it that way when you do have a problem with it.

Pat


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## gus (Dec 8, 2012)

No matter how we stressed safe practice, there will some stubborn guys who imagine themselves to be accident free. I have seen Power Brushing wrapping up one worker's jeans.Lucky for him same machine stalled and further damage. Other than minor bruises,he was  OK. He was told not to carry a switched on power brush to next job on the line. After this incident he was my best safety champion.
I have seen cut-off disc shattered to pieces at my sub-contractor's shop.Told him,he has to clean up all his unsafe practices and audited before re-instatement to our supplier list as I would not risk my QA men in his shop.
Chuck keys stuck into a stationary lathe is another accident waiting to happen.


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## Dirtfan1981 (Dec 8, 2012)

Yeah a lathe or mill can be pretty dangerous no matter how much experience.  Honestly i would never put lathe or mill tool holders any where you would have to reach over or around the spindles or chucks.  even at work we have carts and a rack for chuck keys and stuff off to the side.  nothing gets set on head stock just because we had a employee was running a lathe and a drill rolled off and hit the chuck and threw it across the shop.  missed him by inches.  Doesnt pertain to home shops but at where i work if you left the chuck key in the chuck and walk off when your done it is a automatic write up.


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## dman (Dec 9, 2012)

first thing i learned in tech school was * nothing goes on the headstock * and yeah a chuck key in the spindle was a write up. related to that my supervisor told me of when he was an airman he switched on the shops 16" standard modern lathe with the chuck key in and knocked himself in the chest. i bet that was a surprise.


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## mwilkes (Dec 9, 2012)

I appreciate the "Chuck Key Never Leaves Your Hand" rule. Left a chuck key in a drill press chuck. Switched it on. Managed not to kill anybody. Amazing how frightening an otherwise friendly and familiar machine can suddenly become...


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## gus (Dec 9, 2012)

Scota4570 said:


> A good friend hurt himself very badly. He has many many years of experience as a machinist and gunsmith. He has a wonderfull shop.
> 
> The machine is a big Lablond, 15x56 or there abouts. He has a phase changer in the shop to run it.
> 
> ...



LeBlonde Lathes.

I bought two LeBlonde Precision Lathes for the Singapore compressor plant.Proud to say were made in Singapore by LeBlonde Singapore. Leblonde Singapore Plant was later sold to Makino,Japan.They make CNC Machine Centres. FMS n FMC etc.
These were the best lathe I ever had. Will take very light cuts and gives good finishing basis the right cutter and feed rate and rpm.


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## gus (Dec 9, 2012)

Way back in 1961,a school mate and later work mate had his index finger chopped while holding on  to the chuck key while starting up the lathe. The trade school had a hard time convincing his parents and the Ministries for Education and Labour of no foul play or neglect etc.

Was a very painful accident.


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## dawidk (Dec 27, 2012)

I am a newbie as far as machining goes. I am a IT guy with extensive volunteer emergency service experience. Getting older every year like all the members on the site. Age is a risk factor, you do not get away with what you used to 20 years ago. When you look at burns in elderly female patients especially they early morning cooking fire or night elderly ladies are not  fast enough to pullout a burning petty coat especially with buttons rather use snaps. Males, you don't see young guys getting burned refueling a running lawn mower they can get their pants of fast enough.. Another member said safety is a continuous effort I have to agree with him 100%. Most people don't think it will happen to them That's you without the $20 fire extinguisher and no shop first aid kit.

Accidents happen in an instant and for everyone looking back it was a stupid idea does not imply that they are...


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## tmostad (Jan 19, 2013)

I am new to machining but not new to being injured doing stuff less than the best possible way. I have been lucky more times than I can count. I have developed a theory hat has led me to a practice that has served me well. I believe that prior to most accidents that there was a warning, however small, something akin to a near miss. I now pay lose attention to ANYTHING that doesn't go quite the way I thought it would and step back, take a break and rethink the situation. I ask myself, am I tired? Do I have the right tool? (etc. , etc.) And if the near miss is serious, I walk away and leave it for another day. Yes, things need to get done but I have a "no hospital trips" policy these days and I find I even get fewer minor injuries using this approach.


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## jack620 (Jan 19, 2013)

Captain Jerry said:


> ...Grab the chuck key ( suspended by a counterweight above and left of the headstock).



I love this idea.  I'm going to do it.


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## robcas631 (Jan 19, 2013)

Wow! I am very sorry to hear about your friend!  When when I got my lathe I heeded the advice enclosed in the directions. Then I watched a few lathe videos regarding safety. I went so far as to remove my wedding ring and watch. I established good working habits. I may have a mini lathe but I respect it!


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## kf2qd (Jan 19, 2013)

One rule for a lathe is don't be reaching over a moving chuck. I have worked with chicks with just the corner of a jaw hanging out. I know what they feel like when the chuck is not moving, I can only imagine waht they feel like when the chuck is moving...


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## jack620 (Jan 19, 2013)

kf2qd said:


> I have worked with chicks with just the corner of a jaw hanging out.



Yeah, we have some strange looking women where I work too.


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## metalmudler (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks Scota4570, 
Stories like that make my guts churn,but they do help reinforce safety,and so,should be told.One thing i recently overlooked was eye protection while grinding.I didnt know at the time,but i recieved a small fragment of mild steel in the eye,that was gritty feeling and i thought would just go away,it got worse and started rusting.So i had a weeping eye for about a month and several sessions at the eye specialist to get it ground out with a micro die grinder and a bit called an alger burr.I was lucky as it missed my pupil only just.It felt very uncomfortable..Remember to protect them eyes everyone.I have always wore prescription glasses,but got into a bad habit of looking over the top of the frames when working close.Now i have 'safety' glasses stationed at every piece of machinery in the shop.
I only started my mini lathe once when it was new with the chuck key still in the chuck.Now every chuck key in the shop has bright red tape wrapped all over them.It helps identify them on the bench or in the chuck.Since then i have never started the lathe with the key still in.


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## rpervin (Jan 22, 2013)

A real good friend of mine decided to go into work early to get ahead of his day at the machine shop.  Experienced guy, he was in his early 40s then, and he had been machining since he was in high school.  Long sleeve shirt, wrapped up in the chuck of a BIG engine lathe.  He wrapped his arm around the work three times before he could hit the safety stop.  I have no idea how he got his arm out, I don't see how it was possible.  Good news is that he survived, but man that arm was a mess, and it still is, but they saved it.  I would love to meet the surgeon, but not on a professional basis.  Use common sense with any of this stuff.  I run a lathe that can swing a two foot part in the gap of the bed, and I stay respectful of it.  I think about my buddy a lot when I run my lathe.


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## bazmak (Jan 22, 2013)

As an apprentice many years ago same thing happened to a lad on the next machine.Single point screw cutting very slow speed
his sleeve caught on the faceplt drive dog.I have never heard a scream like it.Fortunately someone hit the safety switch quickly
but not before his arm went round 3 or 4 times,many broken bones and machine phobia afterwards.Its always there in my mind 50 yrs 
later when reaching over a moving chuck BAZMAK


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## gus (Jan 22, 2013)

bazmak said:


> As an apprentice many years ago same thing happened to a lad on the next machine.Single point screw cutting very slow speed
> his sleeve caught on the faceplt drive dog.I have never heard a scream like it.Fortunately someone hit the safety switch quickly
> but not before his arm went round 3 or 4 times,many broken bones and machine phobia afterwards.Its always there in my mind 50 yrs
> later when reaching over a moving chuck BAZMAK



Hi Bazmak,
I am with you. 
Here is my Preventive Measures.
See foto.
As of day one since 2004 when I started working on the home machineshop lathe,I made it a point all tools are placed nearby and not on the "reach over rack" where I store spray cans,'O' rings and springs.
The hot weather here is 'pro safety',I wear no long sleeve,I work topless,no tee shirt.No gloves. Tool holders are kept in the tray on the lathe gear box.All other essentials are racked in front of me within easy reach. I have seen finger chopped off.Another incident nearly chopped off. All these are bitter pills.
Same reason why I bought a Bandsaw instead of rotary saw.Both will cut my fingers but a bandsaw with very small teeth may not cut like lightning but a circular saw will cut my fingers like lightning.
Have no desire to depart with less than 10 fingers.

Take care. We machine for fun,no rush = = =no accidents.

Regards,

Gus


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## narrowgauger (Jan 23, 2013)

Hey Gus

I can see about 10 serious safety problems in your photographs, including:

- container with toolholders on headstock:  this tray can vibrate off at any moment distracting you whilst the machine is running;
- the work area is far too crowded for safe operation;
- power board in your work area; appliance socket could become partially dislodged from socket and swarf shorting / fire risk
- shelf above lathe; too many boxes stacked above each other; risk of falling whilst lathe in operation - distraction risk etc.

have fun
Bernard (certified OH&S officer)


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## robcas631 (Jan 24, 2013)

We are creatures of habit.  As with any machine.... such as a car ect.....used unwisely = scared, hurt or worse. Thus we should design our shops accordingly.


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## robcas631 (Jan 24, 2013)

Rushing.....is not worth it! If you work like me, hours go by like minutes. Always stay caffinated! Despite the mundane stay focused.


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## gus (Jan 24, 2013)

narrowgauger said:


> Hey Gus
> 
> I can see about 10 serious safety problems in your photographs, including:
> 
> ...



Hi Bernard,

Great to hear from a certified OSHA Officer. Nowadays all building construction sites in Singapore must have Certified Safety Officers to cut number of fatal injuries.All power tools must be inspected and signed off by a Licensed Electrician. Fine for every violation is S$100. Repeat offenders are banned from entering job site.
 As for factories,it is in-house Safety Committee's job. Accident rate is very low.Sat in this committee and had a lot of fun.Usually over done or under done.New committee members are so "GungHo". Vets are so easy going.
I have 100 ton power presses running and no committee member had enough safety know-how.No worry.We use two hand operations with guard. For so many years to hand of finger injuries.

However I did have some "smart ideas" how to operate the lathes safely.

I have banned Sub-Contractors working in my Plant. So safety shoes,no safety goggles and safety belt. Tried using my abrasive cut-off saw w/o permission.
No worries.
1. Small machine,no heavy load no vibrations.
2.The power sockets power only one tool at any time.No overload. Metal 
   chips is a potential problem. Now being addressed.Thanks for spotting 
   this.
3.You are right the shelf has too many boxes. Housekeeping is about to be 
   done .Collected to many.
Gus is happily laid off 2001 with generous compensation.

Best Regards,

Gus.

Nice and hot today.:fan::fan::fan:


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## rodw (Jan 24, 2013)

This thread has got me thinking. I also have a shelf over my lathe that predates the lathe purchase. Now I am upgrading to a bigger lathe, I thought I might tack a strip of timber along the front of the shelf to form a lip to stop stuff falling off into a spinning lathe. (that is if people don't mind me talking about woodwork on this forum!)

I had an experience where I stupidly tried to file a chamfer one handed and the chuck grabbed the file and broke it in half, flinging the pieces accross the shop. I was very pleased to be standing to the side of the chuck. I file with two hands now. The new machine has a safety cover over the chuck which will stay in place.....

I never realised how dangerous this stuff could be until reading this.


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## jack620 (Jan 24, 2013)

Rod,
I had a similar experience.  After that I bought a proper Pferd brand lathe file.  The teeth on the file are at a sharper angle and run in the opposite direction to a normal file.  As a result the file wants to push away from the chuck.  There are no teeth on the edges, so if it does contact the chuck it is less likely to grab.  And it is 300mm long which keeps your hands further from the chuck.  I highly recommend buying one.

http://www.pferdusa.com/products/201a/201a02/201a0207P.html

Chris


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## rodw (Jan 25, 2013)

jack620 said:


> Rod,
> I had a similar experience.  After that I bought a proper Pferd brand lathe file.  The teeth on the file are at a sharper angle and run in the opposite direction to a normal file.  As a result the file wants to push away from the chuck.  There are no teeth on the edges, so if it does contact the chuck it is less likely to grab.  And it is 300mm long which keeps your hands further from the chuck.  I highly recommend buying one.
> 
> http://www.pferdusa.com/products/201a/201a02/201a0207P.html
> ...



Thanks Chris, I'll keep it in mind.


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## Lawijt (Jan 27, 2013)

Some years ago , I was working with a Dremel & a drill from 0.3mm. At one moment the drill was broken,so I take a other one.
After some hours my finger hurts a lot. In the hospital,the medic found the broken drill. Check the foto....


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## RonP (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi Guys, yes working on machinery can be fraught with injury situations. One idea I learnt from a friend is to make a foot operated switch that controls the lathe. I have found this to be very convenient and in no way inhibits what I am doing on the lathe. I mounted a micro switch on a wooden plate then with a piece of ply hinged so it makes contact with the switch. Only when I apply foot pressure to the ply does the lathe operate. It is simple and convenient.


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## bootie (Feb 2, 2013)

The problem with a land line phone is that it has to be set loud for you to hear it over machine noise but then it can make you jump when it rings, perhaps at a critical moment.
Also, it can cause a sudden loss of concentration if it rings whilst you are, say, counting divisions on a dividing head or cutting a gear wheel.
Best if you can have it near the lathe or mill, but set on the quietest ring and  don't intend to answer it.


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## bootie (Feb 2, 2013)

I guess that many of us will help a small pedestal drill chuck to come to a stop by gently gripping it.
I heard of a young lad gripping a two inch (50mm) milling cutter in a large mill, to stop it.
I was told that in the 1970s - the days of males wearing very long hair - my friend saw a man scalped when it caught in a srill chuck.


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## gus (Feb 3, 2013)

RonP said:


> Hi Guys, yes working on machinery can be fraught with injury situations. One idea I learnt from a friend is to make a foot operated switch that controls the lathe. I have found this to be very convenient and in no way inhibits what I am doing on the lathe. I mounted a micro switch on a wooden plate then with a piece of ply hinged so it makes contact with the switch. Only when I apply foot pressure to the ply does the lathe operate. It is simple and convenient.



Hi Ron
I am with you on emergency stopping a lathe. Thinking of a waist height horizontal bar to activate a micro switch to stop lathe.In the event of hands getting caught by chuck or job piece,we have spare hands. A body bump on to this bar will stop lathe.

Loose Tee Shirt of clothing.
My engineering trainee days at Metal Box(Continental Can)
I was helping a female production operator to pick up a scrap can behind the can body making machine and my tee shirt got caught and was stripped topless. Had the tee shirt not given way,the chain cog wheel would have cut open my abdomen.


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## Tciplumber (Feb 10, 2013)

I try to work as safely as possible.  After reading some of these posts, I realized that placing tools etc behind a lathe was a really risky move!  Although I had never put any storage behind the lathe, the thought did cross my mind.  Now it is a "banned" area.  To keep myself safe, I modified this little push cart to hold all my commonly used lathe tooling.  Wood pieces help keep the centers from damage and rolling off the cart.  The top shelf I covered with short nap carpet so that tooling and measuring tools are protected.  The bottom shelves I lined with underlayment plywood.  The cart makes it easy to roll the tools out of the way for clean up or re-positioning. The only other improvement to make yet is putting the chuck key on a counterweighted "dog leash".  I love that idea!


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## robcas631 (Feb 10, 2013)

Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!


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## robcas631 (Feb 10, 2013)

We should all realize that we are creatures of habit, and form safe habits from the get go. And, stick with them no matter what. Carelessness creates catastrophe.


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## Hopefuldave (Mar 7, 2013)

RonP said:
			
		

> Hi Guys, yes working on machinery can be fraught with injury situations. One idea I learnt from a friend is to make a foot operated switch that controls the lathe. I have found this to be very convenient and in no way inhibits what I am doing on the lathe. I mounted a micro switch on a wooden plate then with a piece of ply hinged so it makes contact with the switch. Only when I apply foot pressure to the ply does the lathe operate. It is simple and convenient.



Ron, I'd be much happier if your stomp switch *stopped* the lathe - this is pretty much standard practice in industry and education.
Imagine the chuck's pulling you in, your foot's on the go-pedal. You try to pull away and push down harder with your forward foot...

It's pretty simple to turn the go-pedal into an emergency stop, particularly if the machine has a no-volt-release power switch (with start and stop buttons - also compulsory in industry and education), just find the wire to the solenoid and bring it out to a normally-closed microswitch, and while you're at it wire in a couple of Big Red Switches around the shop so your significant other won't have to climb over your corpse and dodge the flailing arm to turn the lathe off 

It's a worthwhile safety feature and will cost less than a few carbide inserts, I did it on my 1950s (pre health and safety) lathe with parts from the junk box in an afternoon, including making the stomp bar and hinges! I now have an emergency stop by the entry door, too 

Just my safety ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)


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## Paul_C (Mar 23, 2013)

I can't imagine an emergency stomp switch would be very useful and I'm surprised no one has commented on it yet. Better than nothing I suppose but I would be more likely looking for the motor switch. Reason being your not use to using it and thinking about using it in a dire situation is unlikely. Many of the machinery and equipment like bucket trucks I operate use a dead man's foot petal. You need to keep the petal down to operate and as soon as you yank your foot out it stops. You get use to yanking your foot out at the first sign of trouble. And if it happens too fast your foot will be yanked out for you. I recall once operating an old large lathe that had had a foot brake the length of the machine. You had to lift your leg up a foot to get on the bar. A half press would release the drive and further press would brake. Once released it would not reengage. Most operators including myself would use the foot bar as a foot rest so there was a bit of safety with it.


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## Hopefuldave (Mar 23, 2013)

Well, they're useful enough that they're compulsory on industrial machines and those in schools over here...

The "dead man's pedal" you describe was tried by British Rail for electric loco's, and found wanting - they went for a handle that had to be lifted, on the principle that a heart attack would leave the driver slumped forward... If a "go" pedal was fitted, it'd be better to make it lift to go, then you wouldn't be able to hold it on when trying to pull away from the machine...

Dave H. (the other one)


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## Mbusha (Mar 23, 2013)

I am really glad to see this thread pop back to the top. I read every word of every post , then scrapped my latest lathe shelf idea and ordered a proper lathe file and handle (thanks for heads up on that Chris).

I also have noticed, and heed, that little voice that tells me something is not quite right with what I am about to do. For me it's a hobby, not production. Work slow, stop for cocktails and read HMEM when tired.


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## wildun (Mar 23, 2013)

In my days as a tradesman working on lathes and milling machines, I saw a guy put a 1" S/S round bar ( intending to chamfer one end using a relatively slow turning speed). The bar was protruding about 3' - 4' out of the back end of the headstock spindle. 
He switched on the lathe but hadn't checked which gear it was in and it started up at high speed, the bar immediately bent at right angles, smacked the concrete, lifted the lathe off its mountings and continued to spin with the lathe doing a dance across the floor, I dived in from the tailstock end and managed to get the thing switched off with the red emergency stop button (which on hindsight was not a real wise thing to do in this case!) but miraculously no one got hurt.
Moral of the story, don't ever put a long protruding bar in the lathe without some type of steady to support it, and check that you are using a low gear!


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 24, 2013)

Good point wildun;
I did the same thing on my mini lathe with a piece of brass. it damaged my antique oak tool chest and wounded my pride felt really stupid. but thankfully no injuries. 
Tin


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## wildun (Mar 25, 2013)

Yes, I would say that most of us have made mistakes, being careful operators or not and I would hate to see the guy who hasn't made a silly mistake proudly telling people that because one day!....................

I was close to a couple of years from retirement age and was proudly thinking to myself that I still had all my digits intact after using machine tools carefully most of my life, then I lost half of my left thumb! 
This did not happen on a machine tool as you'd expect, it happened with a large (12") butterfly valve which I was helping a salesman prepare for a customer, it was air operated and I was trying to mount it in a vice - he couldn't wait to try the air on it, then it slammed shut .... on my thumb! - the rest is history.


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## mikbul (Feb 9, 2014)

My lathe tools go back to the tool box on the right when I'm done with them and hammers, files, etc. are in the drawers beneath the lathe. That can of cutter is even gone now replaced with insulation.


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## Walltoddj (Feb 9, 2014)

I just finished reading all these post and would like to say the gentleman with the mini lathe is worst off a Dc motor just keeps turning until something breaks. I've seen a man loose a finger in a punch press, I've seen a man cleaning an inline production drill get wound up in the drill and if his shirt had not been torn for his neck he would have been killed this was a multi drill head for a V6 engine at very high speed. What my biggest pet peeve is gloves I don't care what you are doing any time you are near a moving piece of machinery gloves are a NO NO. Had a guy ground he's hand very nicely in a belt sander glove caught suck his hand right in. I have cabinets above my lathe for tools, but I work of a roll around and if I do reach for a tool my chuck is passed the end of the cabinets. 

Todd


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## Walltoddj (Feb 10, 2014)

I've was thinking more on this subject and I have to ask what do you use to keep chips away when making cuts? How many have learn that if something is rolling to let it go don't grab it?
I was taught and always have used a brush to move chips, I've eaten up a lot of brushes but never my hands. Any kind of brush will do and if it gets caught let it go they will make more.
I also learned to let things fall it's a natural instinct to reach to catch say a pencil rolling off a desk. As I learned and was taught don't ever reach because you see one thing and your mind see another. It takes a long time and concentration to be able to let it fall. Now at times I still catch things but I've trained myself not to around machines and I'm proud to say I still have 10 Toes and 10 Fingers. 
How many wear steel toed boot? I still wear them in my home shop I dropped 580# of steel on my foot when a slide broke the stops and fell on my foot. The on damage was it drove my foot down so I broke the second joint to my big toe, the shoe was intact and it never bent the steel toe.

Todd


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## pkastagehand (Feb 10, 2014)

wildun said:


> Yes, I would say that most of us have made mistakes, being careful operators or not and I would hate to see the guy who hasn't made a silly mistake proudly telling people that because one day!....................



I did some flying in years past and this reminds me of an old pilots adage: There are two types of people who fly aircraft with retractable landing gear.  Those who have landed with the gear up and those who have not yet landed with the gear up.

I have not YET done the long-bar-out-of-the-back-of-the-headstock dance.

Paul


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## lennardhme (Feb 10, 2014)

Todd, I thought that was what old toothbrushes were for - short bristles that dont get caught or wrap around moving parts, & cheap. Good for applying cutting fluid too !
leonard


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## Walltoddj (Feb 10, 2014)

Anything that works but not a rag and not your hand!!!

Todd

I use acid brushes for cutting oil toothbrushes are busy cleaning my parts.


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## gus (Feb 10, 2014)

I have too many used/new tothbrushes lying around. Been using mini brushed to apply cutting oil when parting. Brushes do eaten up when using it to clear chip build up. Will try out toothbrushes.

Chips.
In 1961,we had open day at Singapore Polytechnic and Gus was one of those students demonstrating his
(limited)turning skills. A rather long swirl was generated and curling out nicely and Gus was playing with it. An elderly gentleman gave me good advice. "Never never play with those swirls,you can loose your fingers/hand/arm and life." Took his advice seriously.
30 years later,Gus gave same advice to an apprentice turner and only to get a sharp rebuke. Days later he lost a finger while turning stainless steel.

Wearing gloves when working on a drill press is also another potential finger losing event. My left thumb got dislocated and hand scarred. Scar is still there but very faint.


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## valentin (Mar 4, 2014)

Well, it is said that "safety culture is all that we do when our boss is not watching us".


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## Walltoddj (Mar 4, 2014)

gus said:


> I have too many used/new tothbrushes lying around. Been using mini brushed to apply cutting oil when parting. Brushes do eaten up when using it to clear chip build up. Will try out toothbrushes.
> 
> Chips.
> In 1961,we had open day at Singapore Polytechnic and Gus was one of those students demonstrating his
> ...



As far as I'm concerned glove don't belong around any machines I've seen to many stupid things done with gloves on. A Pipefitter ground his hand up nicely because a glove got caught in the sanding belt. Glove just are not a good thing in this kind of work!

Todd


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## barnesrickw (Mar 4, 2014)

When I logged and used a chainsaw in winter (Michigan) I seldom used gloves.  I prefer to feel the machine in my hand.  I know that's not the recommended way, but it makes me feel safer. 


Sent from my iPad using Model Engines


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## robcas631 (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm moving my tool shelf before I go near my lathe. TY for indicating how dangerous such a set up can be. I hope your friend gets better!


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## robcas631 (Mar 6, 2014)

steamer said:


> NO long sleeve shirts,rings, or loose clothing......WORD!
> 
> 
> Check out a thread called "Safety is an attitude" as it talks about this situation....and lets not go into the glove discussion....they don't belong anywhere near a lathe.
> ...


 

I never wear gloves, long sleeve shirts or my wedding ring. Yet if there is a remote chance I'll not take it!


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## Omnimill (Mar 7, 2014)

Troutsqueezer said:


> Another reason why I'm sticking with my HF mini lathe. It can hurt you but probably won't break your arm or kill you.



Agreed, the belt slips on mine as well if the load gets too high.
I guess sometimes bigger isn't better for what we do.


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## Wizard69 (Mar 7, 2014)

Paul_C said:


> I can't imagine an emergency stomp switch would be very useful and I'm surprised no one has commented on it yet. Better than nothing I suppose but I would be more likely looking for the motor switch. Reason being your not use to using it and thinking about using it in a dire situation is unlikely. Many of the machinery and equipment like bucket trucks I operate use a dead man's foot petal. You need to keep the petal down to operate and as soon as you yank your foot out it stops. You get use to yanking your foot out at the first sign of trouble. And if it happens too fast your foot will be yanked out for you. I recall once operating an old large lathe that had had a foot brake the length of the machine. You had to lift your leg up a foot to get on the bar. A half press would release the drive and further press would brake. Once released it would not reengage. Most operators including myself would use the foot bar as a foot rest so there was a bit of safety with it.




In my mind E-Stops are very important, especially if you work in an environment with many different machines.   First E-Stops by design are very recognizable and easy to hit.   Second, properly implemented they kill everything from motors to air power apparatus.  Sometimes hitting the E-Stop causes more problems than you would like, but it is the consistent way to respond to an emergency.   


Sent from my iPad using Model Engines


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## Hopper (Mar 8, 2014)

I think our resident OSHA types would take a dim view of my set up with tools on a shadowboard behind my old Drummond 3.5" lathe. 





But I note that the OP referred to a LeBlond 15" x 56" lathe, a full sized  toolroom type lathe.
Leaning over that huge chunk of machinery to reach the wall does seem like a death-defying act. 
Whole different thing from a small model-making lathe be it mini-lathe or Myford size. I can stand were I usually work at the lathe and reach over and pic tools off the wall without bending over or getting anywhere near the chuck etc. I am tall and lanky, so that helps. 

But as you can see, I have everything away from the moving parts, and a small shelf with a 2" high lip around it for putting bits and pieces of the current job in. This is also designed to catch any tools in the unlikely event they fall off their hooks. 
Under that, right down at the tailstock end, is a small set of plastic drawers for tool bits etc.

The business end (no belt guards at all, yet) I keep away from. I keep the change gears there on the wall as you only get them off and on the wall when the lathe is stopped and you are fitting the gears. Skirted shelf at the bottom there holds motorcycle chainlube for the gears (doesnt fling off). Nothing is stored on the wall directly behind the chuck because, a) it is the danger area and b) it gets sprayed with oil and grease etc off the chuck. 

Been doing it this way since I was a boy (this is my Dad's old lathe) and no problems. I rarely have need to reach over the lathe while it is running, and if I do, it is well to the tailstock end away from danger. 

So I think it is possible to make good use of most of the space behind the small lathe without danger if you have limited space like I do. If it is done thoughtfully.



Now, I have made some concessions to modernity and done away with the bronze bush countershaft bearings that required oiling while in use by leaning over the business end with an oil can. Replaced them with a pair of ball bearing plummer blocks ($22 each including shipping from Hong Kong - cant beat it).
But I still have to oil the headstock bearings with an oil can while in use. Pair of brass lubricators is next on the list.





One other thing in the picture I am quite pleased with is the old wine  bottle rack to the right, used to store lengths of bar stock etc.  Handiest thing I ever scrounged up.


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## Tin Falcon (Mar 15, 2014)

In an attempt to keep things on subject the post on motorcycle crashes/war stories were moved to a new thread in the break room . Thank you for your understanding. 
Tin


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## Walltoddj (Mar 15, 2014)

I have to disagree with you Tin Falcon it all the same Safety the bottom line is try to pay attention and don't get distracted but until you've been there you won't know!!

Todd


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## Fabrickator (Mar 25, 2014)

I don't keep anything behind the business end of my lathe.  I do have a chuck & live center rack beyond the tail stock though.  I'm always thinking about what I'm doing with my hands.  I always run my belt on the "loose" side so it slips before it breaks anything.  Belts are cheap.  I never wear gloves, sleeves, apron or hats.  I even use a retaining band for my eyeglasses in case they fell off.  I never place anything like mic, calipers, allen wrenches or chuck key on top of the lathe gearbox.

My biggest temptation is to reach in and grab swarf.  I consistently have to remind myself to leave it alone, no matter how it may effect my finish cut.  I have one of the spring steel, long grabber things they sell, but I think that these are for fools who could still get it caught up or feel invulnerable to an accident if they use it.  I've vowed to let it fall where it may, clean it out when the machine is off and not be too lazy to sweep often, before I have a serious accident.

I also have a habit I stick to when I have to change belts, the chuck or set-ups.  USE THE BIG RED BUTTON!  Don't be too lazy to have to reset the machine (ESO-reset-start).

I often think about what would happen if I got hurt.  I keep my cell phone handy in the event I'm hurt or incapacitated.  I keep my garage door open so I could yell to a neighbor and I keep my 8' fence/gate partially open so EMS or anyone that hears me can get into my back yard garage.

Grizzly G0602

Rick


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## besser (Aug 3, 2014)

I had the unfortunate experience to cause a machine accident simply by asking what happened. The guy who saw the accident reinacted it exactly for me. It involved a rolling machine that had neatly removed the fingernails of a previous employee. So this guy explains what happened and what went wrong. He simply didn't realise that the first accident was not someone being stupid or clumsy but someone not giving the machine respect. He waved his fingers near the rollers then did a very real jerking his hand out the way impression, his face went white and the machine didn't miss a beat. He fainted and several of us picked him up to find 3 fingernails missing and the tips crushed. Unfortunately the business didn't use the experience to teach a valuable lesson, they decommissioned the machine. 

I realised you can't calculate and understand the risks, you have to take action to prevent the unexpected. I wear safety shoes, glasses ear plugs, gloves with hand tools only and plan each step before I do it. It's probably the planning the protects me against the unknown the most.


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## SixSixSevenSeven (Aug 3, 2014)

http://www.appaltree.net/aba/Safety.htm

Seems pretty simply, no gloves and the safety shields on equipment are there for a reason (I have actually seen an angle grinder disc shatter although in this case the safety shield was fitted and nobody was harmed at all)


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## Wizard69 (Aug 5, 2014)

besser said:


> I had the unfortunate experience to cause a machine accident simply by asking what happened. The guy who saw the accident reinacted it exactly for me. It involved a rolling machine that had neatly removed the fingernails of a previous employee. So this guy explains what happened and what went wrong. He simply didn't realise that the first accident was not someone being stupid or clumsy but someone not giving the machine respect. He waved his fingers near the rollers then did a very real jerking his hand out the way impression, his face went white and the machine didn't miss a beat. He fainted and several of us picked him up to find 3 fingernails missing and the tips crushed. Unfortunately the business didn't use the experience to teach a valuable lesson, they decommissioned the machine.
> 
> I realised you can't calculate and understand the risks, you have to take action to prevent the unexpected. I wear safety shoes, glasses ear plugs, gloves with hand tools only and plan each step before I do it. It's probably the planning the protects me against the unknown the most.




I've heard of a similar thing happening at another plant across town.  This was years ago but something similar in that somebody asked a supervisor / group leader what happened and that person proceeded to demonstrate completely what happened.    Including the bodily injury.  At least that is what we where told being a different company I can't say how accurate the second hand reports where.  

The moral of the story here is to not ask questions like that.  I've seen or heard of some really gruesome "accidents" in my lifetime which tends to make one think before jumping.  I basically started out in plant maintenance / machinery rebuild, in a die cast foundry.    Every single machine or device in that plant had the potential to do grave harm.   I was actually happy to leave that place for tamer environs. 

The best action to take is to try to avoid getting caught up in the moment.  I think this injures more guys that just about anything else.    Forgetting to think can be fatal, sometimes causing everyone to slow down is the right thing to do.


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## gus (Aug 6, 2014)

Reverse Engineer Built this 6' x 5/16'' Pyramid Roll in 1993 to roll air receiver shells.
The Bending Roll can pull and roll in from finger/hand and entire human body. This is one industrial accident Gus have no desire to happen.
With this in mind, safety practice training were done and only trained authorised operator/s can operate B.Roll. Toggle Controls located safely away from rolls. A kick activated dead man switch
installed at the ''C'' frame, front and back plus Emergency Push Lock Stop Button at Console.
Same machine rolled out thousands of air receeiver shells w/o any minor or major accidents.

Treat every machine tool with utmost respect.


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## jj-smith (Nov 11, 2014)

Howdy folks,

It's good to have read this thread,

It reminds me that no matter how smart you are, or however much you may think that things are under control..., they are not!
All it takes is one moment of distraction, or a move automatically made from many times of repeating the same thing and bingo, you're missing a finger or worse.

Just a few days ago I noticed that I would reach for the on-off switch automatically with the left hand while my right hand is busy moving a work piece or inserting the chuck key!
Especially when clamping a piece to center it and having to re-do that a couple of times, and worse....some times for no reason at all!
I caught myself just ready to insert the key after having turned on the switch.

We take too many things for granted way too much. I am sure it's not just me either.

In the same habit of auto movements without thinking later on, I turned on the switch while having just cleared the chuck by a millisecond, and put the chuck key in the proper place on the cabinet top next to the lathe on the right past the tail stock.
The lathe is now running with me not paying attention to the chuck end as a second mistake, and my left hand was just a bit away from the revolving chuck, turning at some 300 plus rpm.
This should not have happened till I was ready to pay attention to work the piece!

I had made a mental note to do something to stop that nonsense, but it gets forgotten about with the daily burdens and distractions taking our minds and thoughts elsewhere.

I find myself reading here and kicking my not so royal sorry arse for being so slack and careless.
I will find a way of changing that habit of auto movements, through training myself to work in steps and blocks that will preclude adding power in a tool or work piece moving op.

I am a rational person and know that repetitive training will form habits that can mitigate mistakes like that.

The reading here of things that happen to folks is a damn good reminder to get  "with it" and do something about it so I may last a bit longer with all supplied parts attached!

The shelves and placing tools, boring bars and reamers in the shelf area behind the chuck is another issue I'll have to deal with and change, all it took was some reading here to realize how unsafe that really is, and what possible consequences that could create.

One does not always think ahead. In this case my setup came with the lathe years ago when I bought it and the area it resides in as part of it, So somewhere along bringing it all home, the safety factor never rung a bell and fate was just waiting for me to screw up.

This is (as I have to admit to myself) the reason why safety programs are becoming more stringent and better enforced daily, and for good reasons.

Just thought I'd re-enforce my own resolve to get smart with the home rules.

Regards, J.


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## gus (Nov 11, 2014)

*Fatal Injury *
A friend posted a very disturbing foto on my FaceBook. I will not post it in on this forum. 
The turner had his arm torned off and head smashed on the lathe. Foto shows him wearing long sleeves.
I can only imagine he was reaching over the job and it caught his sleeve.
Now looking for "Push Lock Stop Button Switches for left and right sides of lathe table.
Gus spent  53 years working off/on on machine tools. Would like my life,hands,fingers,arms and eyes intact when I depart. 
Take Care.


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## jj-smith (Nov 11, 2014)

Sofar, with the "newer" lathe, I'm happy to say that the cumbersome push-lock MAIN power switch is a good idea, as it requires one extra move to get the lathe to operating mode.

I have started to use that feature EVERY time I shut the lathe down to make a move.
When the next move comes to turn on the lathe to work a piece, I have to turn on the main, and then the on-off switch, which puts a second motion in place by which I have more time to think and do the right thing.
It'a PITA to learn to do, but eventually it will become a learned behaviour action and save a dumb move of some kind by which to lose a finger or get hurt in some way.

I've looked into a similar method to switch the Atlas on and off with, because THAT was the lathe that I messed up with, that one only having one main on-off switch.
I will also move the main switch away from the headstock area on this lahe to ensure that I will never be able to switch on to readily, plus I will install a primary power switch to turn on before the lathe can be turned on.
I know it seems like a cumbersome way to do things, but my fingers are important to me, they keep my nose clean!
And it is not like I'm holding up production in any way, I like to enjoy my machines, not to become too worried about them because I can be scatterbrained at times.


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## Hopper (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm with Gus on this. I too am looking for a couple of big red stop buttons to put at each end of my lathe. 
I had a little near miss the other night, when tired. I was knurling a piece of steel and as has long been my habit, was feeling the knurled surface with my finger while the job was rotating to feel how pointed the knurls were getting.
But as I was knurling just a narrow band about 6mm wide, my finger just brushed near the rotating knurling wheel and I felt the skin on my fingertip just start to get pinched between the rotating work and the harndened steel teeth of the knurling wheel. Luckily it just brushed and I pulled my finger away quick smart.

So next run, I was dabbing a little cutting oil on the knurling wheel  with a half-inch wide pig bristle paintbrush. Out of idle curiosity I let the tip of the brush get down between the knurling wheel and the rotating job. Holy Moley!!! Sucked that brush right in there and chewed the bristles up and spat them out the other side, eventually. No way I could pull it out of there without stopping the lathe. (Was in backgear, so maximum torque at low gearing.) The ultimate meat grinder.

Been using lathes at home and at work for 40 years or more and never even really thought about knurling tools quite that way. 
But it did make me think about, well what if my finger had got sucked in between the knurl tool and the rotating job?


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## ShopShoe (Nov 12, 2014)

It may seem redundant to mention this, but I have a practice of making sure I know what BOTH of my hands are doing. I have borrowed this from electronics back when lethal voltages were running around tube circuits. Whenever doing something, make sure that your OTHER hand is away from the work, even if you put it in a pocket. 

I generally don't allow casual watchers in my shop, but in the few times one of the grandsons wanted to watch, I made him hold onto things like table legs so I knew his hands were not going near anything else.

--ShopShoe


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## jj-smith (Nov 12, 2014)

It's good to do those things with people who can't be kept under a close eye, and if you've learned to keep your hands where your brain thinks they are, then hats off to you.
I know for myself that I can do the odd stupid thing without thinking, and haven't learned, and may never learn to be 100% safe!
As idiotic as that may sound, it is the truth and I know myself too well to ever want to say I've arrived.
Safety is a journey in self preservation and the best you can do is a conscious, determined and dogged persuing of ways to make that happen.

I believe I may have taken your original thread and stepped on it Scota.
I apologise and do feel bad for your friend's serious mishap.
But it can be a sure wakeup call to others too, and as I read this thing, I was reminded to DO something about my own situation, so I thank you for posting it.

Regards, J.


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## gus (Nov 12, 2014)

jj-smith said:


> It's good to do those things with people who can't be kept under a close eye, and if you've learned to keep your hands where your brain thinks they are, then hats off to you.
> I know for myself that I can do the odd stupid thing without thinking, and haven't learned, and may never learn to be 100% safe!
> As idiotic as that may sound, it is the truth and I know myself too well to ever want to say I've arrived.
> Safety is a journey in self preservation and the best you can do is a conscious, determined and dogged persuing of ways to make that happen.
> ...



Hi JJ.

No problem and no worries. Feel free to contribute.
The plant I ran for 20 years had ''Zero'' accidents. Gus was known to be rough and tough on offenders.
A mate of mine at Continental Can,removed safety brake device from a can top lid power press and had his right thumb chopped off on the stamping die.
Safety device was removed 10 years before this accident.


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## gus (Nov 12, 2014)

ShopShoe said:


> It may seem redundant to mention this, but I have a practice of making sure I know what BOTH of my hands are doing. I have borrowed this from electronics back when lethal voltages were running around tube circuits. Whenever doing something, make sure that your OTHER hand is away from the work, even if you put it in a pocket.
> 
> I generally don't allow casual watchers in my shop, but in the few times one of the grandsons wanted to watch, I made him hold onto things like table legs so I knew his hands were not going near anything else.
> 
> --ShopShoe



Hi ShopShoe,

For same reason I gave up electronics,radio/amplifier/TV repair hobby when my baby daughter and son came in 1974/1976. By the time they were old enough in 1990, Gus was left far behind same hobby. Friends would drop by with their vacuum tube radios for repairs and turned away as I had given away all tools and equipment. 
Superhet Radios were fun to build,repair and IF tuned. My first crystal radio kept me up listening to local stations.The Regenerative Radio gave me better reception. Spent weeks trying to tune IF transformers and finally tuned in very first reception and audio thru speaker.
Gus now have too many hobbies. I survived my fair share of electric shocks.
Went into installation of High Tension (6.6kv)Motors and starters.I am still alive. Never never touch a dead HT cable.It may still have a nasty shock.230v DC can be deadly. Gus survived.
Take care.


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## gus (Nov 13, 2014)

The 100 ton China Power Press which I bought to stamp motor slide rails and misc parts was always on my ''safety first mind''. The Drop Shield installed to satisfy the Ministry of Labour was not entirely useful. When longer than usual parts are stamped same shield cannot be lowered.
Power press was done with two hand operations. That is press operator would require two hands to operate press. Since operation no hand injury from day one.
Plant closed and all machine tools sold 2001. Gus laid off with a very generous hand shake by Ingersoll-Rand.th_wav
Next chapter of my life. Balcony machineshop activities,fishing and travelling.


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## Nick Hulme (Sep 21, 2015)

I use all the wall space in my workshop, a rack with 40+ quick change tool holders is located behind one lathe headstock. 
More racking with chucks, and other tooling fills the wall to the right of the tool holders. 
I could see this as a safety issue for someone who might consider reaching over a lathe whilst it's turning. 
What I can't see is why anyone would consider reaching over or through running machinery when it takes just a second to disengage the clutch. 
If I'm making a batch of parts and need several tools I will often bring them to the front of the lathe but this is for speed, not safety, I don't change tools with the work turning. 

 - Nick


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## spoonerandforker (Jul 28, 2016)

It is gratifying to see this thread so long and well followed.  Most accidents involve more than one contributing factor.  Tool rack behind the lathe, rough stock, long clothing, working alone, especially either early or late when we may not be at peak attentiveness, time pressure to get it done now, and a long list of potential contributing factors lead to accidents.  Safety involves eliminating as many of these weak links as possible, not just one.  So I remember the words of my father, "Belt AND suspenders".  Multiple redundant safety measures represent strength not weakness in a shop.


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## Blogwitch (Jul 28, 2016)

As mentioned by me in another post a few days ago, accidents don't happen, they are caused.

Also another thing not mentioned much is common sense, if you haven't got it, you shouldn't be out anywhere by yourself, especially in a workshop.

John


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## mikelkie (Jul 28, 2016)

A m6 tap went into my upper left arm after dropping it on a spinning chuck
since then, i made myself a rack behind me which can be hoisted up to the roof and out the way when finished. (machines has no brain, use your own!)


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## hrefab (Aug 16, 2016)

mklotz said:


> I'm very sorry about what happened to this fellow but, nevertheless, I have to make one comment.
> 
> A tool rack behind the lathe such that he has to lean across the spinning work to reach the rack? Give me a break.
> 
> If you're interested in safety, you'll immediately see how bad an idea this has to be. Installing that rack wasn't a spur of the moment thing. He had plenty of time to reflect on its eventual use and the potential for danger it represented.



I don't want to be the insensitive lout in the group, but I have to agree with Mklotz... WHAT WAS HE THINKING? This is a self inflicted wound... Kind of like killing your parents and then asking for mercy because you're an orphan.

I just cannot for the life of me visualize ANYONE with a lick of sense putting tooling in a position where you'd have to reach over running equipment to get to it..

This screams out "DARWIN AWARD"... Unfortunately, this fellow is going to spend the rest of his life reflecting on a very poor and thoughtless choice.


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## Nick Hulme (Aug 22, 2016)

hrefab said:


> I just cannot for the life of me visualize ANYONE with a lick of sense putting tooling in a position where you'd have to reach over running equipment to get to it..



No one ever has to reach over running equipment to reach the wall behind it, worst case scenario one can take the tools for each job and transfer them to a safely positioned tool tray, swapping tool sets between jobs, unless, of course, you change your work-piece with the machine running too. ;-) 

Another popular option (and I really like this one!) is to stop the work spinning by means of a clutch or off switch, if you're in the good habit of stopping the machine to change tools then all the better, your work will always be still when accessing any tool rack, whatever it's position. 

I just cannot for the life of me visualise anyone with a lick of sense thinking that the danger in this scenario is the positioning of the tools when it is clearly the behaviour of the operator. 

Anyone without the sense to deal safely with this scenario should never be allowed to operate machinery, they'll find a way to hurt themselves, or worse, someone else, whatever you do to try to deal with their slipshod approach to operating machinery. 

 - Nick


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## hrefab (Aug 23, 2016)

Troutsqueezer said:


> Another reason why I'm sticking with my HF mini lathe. It can hurt you but probably won't break your arm or kill you.



Don't take that for granted. You would be surprised (and not pleasantly) how much damage a small lathe can do


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## oilmac (Aug 25, 2016)

Scota4570 said:


> A good friend hurt himself very badly. He has many many years of experience as a machinist and gunsmith. He has a wonderfull shop.
> 
> The machine is a big Lablond, 15x56 or there abouts. He has a phase changer in the shop to run it.
> 
> ...



  Nick,
  The ghastly accident which happened to your friend does not bear thinking about,   He was obviously comfortable operating his big lathe for many years, but a combination of a badly placed tool rack, & most likely  fatigue or a moments forgetfulness was all it took for misfortune to strike.
 Over here in the U.K. about 25 years ago a turner was horribly mangled and lost his life  by the instance of a loose rag on his sleeve being caught on his work piece  and dragging him over the work piece to his death, no one would want to witness the aftermath of such a horror, thankfully more modern work practices and safety awareness has given us a safer work environment.

 My one worry in today's " Ultra safety and aware world" , Is i believe the scenario where future generations will have any natural self preservation and the natural in built  sense of danger negated from their psyche  by being mollycoddled, I think in many instances we are rearing future generations who will not be able to think for themselves in a work environment.
So saying to be safety conscious  is a far better and happier world than say 150 years ago in which nobody cared  two hoots regarding workers welfare.

Leaving the industrial scene aside , where the home shop worker is concerned, I think the safety record seems to be pretty good , or else we just do not hear of the disasters that have befallen the careless, stupid , or inexperienced , or  arrogant home shop operative,  Recently in a small way I have been attempting to mentor one guy, he is well educated to a high degree , But he has a totally unteachable spirit , and is therefore a danger to himself and everyone else in his vicinity
 The average glory hole in which Home Shop lurkers reside range from a cupboard or closet in the house to very fine establishments  which would put many commercial concerns to shame. 
 In my small shop at home, which like Lucy "Has just Growed " over the decades has space at a great premium,therefore behind the lathe & shaper I have  tools and equipment hanging or on racks, This lack of space has meant over about forty years I have had to instill into my methodology  "Strictly no leaning over any machine whilst it is working"  so therefore we have another very valuable by product, No one else operates my machinery or works in my shop , Therefore me and only me is responsible for my own actions.
 I also have another shop with larger machine tools, in which I have no racks everything comes from a cupboard and goes back to a cupboard
 The premise guys is work safely , wisely and be happy And always guard against the unforeseen occurrence.


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## Nick Hulme (Mar 23, 2017)

oilmac said:


> I have had to instill into my methodology  "Strictly no leaning over any machine whilst it is working".



I'm struggling to think of a circumstance where leaning over a machine with exposed moving parts/tools/work would be a sane option. 

Tool rack positioning is only unsafe if the tools or rack are positioned such that they can injure the user. If a running machine between the user and tool rack poses a danger then the actual cause is that which resides in or is absent from the space between the user's ears, not the position of the rack.


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## bootie (May 16, 2017)

It is so obviously unsafe to have to reach over to the back of a lathe or even a mill, especially when one is working alone, yet we can see it repeatedly in photos and videos.


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## editor123 (May 16, 2017)

To the extreme disgust of an author, I refused to review a book on beginning machining because he advocated wearing long sleeves to protect his arms from hot chips. His entire attitude was one of a casual approach to machining.

I'm guessing he won't be advertising in my magazine.

I clearly remember the ugly pictures shown to the machine technology class I attended at the local Jr. College. Ugly, ugly. And even a grinder accident where the person's long hair got caught. Fortunately for him, he was scalped therefore before the grinder pulled him much past the guard window which he did break with his forehead.


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## billmck (May 16, 2017)

Not even nitrile gloves! Recently, an experienced machinist in our company put on nitrile gloves to remove a finished part from a manual lathe (like the ones many of us have at home).  He decided it needed a lick with a file and proceeded to do so without taking off his gloves. He accidentally touched the work with his glove while filing.  The glove had enough grip and strength to pull him into the machine and separate his hand from his arm. The first aid team got him and his hand to the hospital where he underwent reattachment surgery - I don't know what level of success he has had.  At home this could easily have been fatal.
No sleeves, loose clothes, jewelry, apron ties, long hair and no gloves of any kind, not once, not ever.


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## GrahamJTaylor49 (May 17, 2017)

Always remember the old axiom, familiarity breeds contempt.
Many years ago i was setting up a Herbert 2D capstan lathe for company I was working for. It had a collet chuck and a bar feed at the rear end of the head stock. Having set the machine up using a piece of scrap stock I opened the collet chuck and the bar feed pushed the scrap stock up to the capstan end but didn't fall out. Me, knowing what I was doing, knocked the scrap stock out of the way with my right hand. The bar feed then fed the length of steel, complete with the burr through the collet chuck and, still running at 500 rpm, trapped my hand between the bar and the capstan tail stock. I couldn't reach the off switch and on the older machines there was no emergency off button or brake. Luckily for me there were a number of other people in the workshop at the time. One swithced the machine off and another took me to Lymington hospital to get my hand put back together. I now have a Colchester Bantam 2000 lathe and a Bridgport mill in my garage / hobbies room. I have never put anything at the back of the lathe and all the tooling for the mill is to the side. Don't ever forget, a machine has an awfull lot of power and will do a soft body a great deal of damage. I was lucky and have full use of my hand again and all my power tools have emergency cut outs and brakes. Engoy your hobbies but please be carefull, machines can kill.


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## Hopper (May 17, 2017)

Editor123


> To the extreme disgust of an author, I refused to review a book on  beginning machining because he advocated wearing long sleeves to protect  his arms from hot chips. His entire attitude was one of a casual  approach to machining.



How do you think anything ever gets done in machine shops in cold climates? I've never seen one yet where the boss will spend the money to heat a machine shop to short-sleeved temperatures in winter.  Long sleeves are widely used around moving machinery all over the world. Flapping, unbuttoned sleeves, well that's a different matter. But overalls with the wrist snaps done up are just fine.


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## Nick Hulme (May 18, 2017)

GrahamJTaylor49 said:


> I have never put anything at the back of the lathe and all the tooling for the mill is to the side.



An admirable approach for the forgetful, unwary and careless and to be highly recommended to anyone not able to infer the correct use of clutches and off switches in rendering machinery stationary and safe. 

A logical extension of this approach is to also never use sharp or rotating work or tooling as this cannot be easily placed "to one side" of the machine. :thumbup:

I am reminded of an apocryphal tale about a remote IT support worker who's closing gambit was to ask if the utterly clueless customer had the original packaging and documentation for their product and on receiving an affirmative response suggested they pack up and return their PC as the were obviously not fit to own one.  :hDe:


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## Hopper (May 18, 2017)

I think I posted a pic earlier in this thread of my tool rack behind my small Drummond lathe, at the tailstock end, away from the moving parts, which works just fine for me. No leaning over required on small lathe like this. HOWEVER, even I would draw the line at mounting the stop/start switch exactly behind the chuck as in this below pic from eBay. Puts your watchband and cuff of your long sleeve right on the chuck at every start and stop. This would have to be the absolute worst location possible, I reckon.


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## editor123 (May 19, 2017)

Hopper said:


> Editor123
> 
> 
> How do you think anything ever gets done in machine shops in cold climates? I've never seen one yet where the boss will spend the money to heat a machine shop to short-sleeved temperatures in winter.  Long sleeves are widely used around moving machinery all over the world. Flapping, unbuttoned sleeves, well that's a different matter. But overalls with the wrist snaps done up are just fine.



Whether people do it or not, it is stupid to do so. And on top of that, if the machine shop is that cold, it must be difficult to maintain accuracy given that dimensions and measuring tools are set up for a 68 degree environment.


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## goldstar31 (May 20, 2017)

editor123 said:


> Whether people do it or not, it is stupid to do so. And on top of that, if the machine shop is that cold, it must be difficult to maintain accuracy given that dimensions and measuring tools are set up for a 68 degree environment.


 
Here, this bright and bonny morning is 10C or 50F in old money!
Again it is 19C indoors with a semblance of heating on.
For the rest of the unhappy world, it is struggling with  an average debt of £13000 excluding mortgages.  This is the UK, arguably one of the so called rich countries.

From what can be deduced over more years than enough, the average reader here has a lathe which either dates from being secundo mano' which is rather more than second hand or something that came from the bargain basement of some factory where people are managing on perhaps rather more than a bowl of imported rice. Whatever the outcome of today's factory, it seems that there is no way that one can achieve National Physical Laboratory standards or Georg Schleisinger ( Sp)

Sorry, but this is a world of people who are not far removed from their old shed in the garden or the back of the kitchen bench where the old ML or Drummond was probably pedalled.  And then came washing machines and one could cannibalise them for 1/4HP 1440 rpm motors. 

Wow!!!!!!! That Miracle from the East promised long ago materialised. 

Whatever happened the with a borrowed 0-1" mike or a cheap Chinese one now, it does not approach  these ethereal aspirations.

As for safety or whatever, most of us have no option but to conduct our affairs with caution. 

We know the dangers- but real life itself is one of far more danger.

Sorry, I have stolen the post but feel that reality is something that is actually REAL.

Norman


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## Hopper (May 20, 2017)

> Whether people do it or not, it is stupid to do so. And on top of that,  if the machine shop is that cold, it must be difficult to maintain  accuracy given that dimensions and measuring tools are set up for a 68  degree environment.


Oh! Were the world such a perfect place!

Ever tried turning your office thermostat down to 68 degrees and seen how comfortable you feel in short sleeves?

Not sure which side of the pond you edit your honorable publication on, but OSHA (USA) guidelines for lathe operators call for tight fitting clothing, no mention of short sleeves required. Simply and absolutely not practical to wear short sleeves in most commercial machine shops in the winter. Nor home shops.


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## editor123 (May 21, 2017)

In the two biggest training schools here in Silicon Valley, the clothing rules are:
Short close-fitting sleeves ending above the elbow
Clothing of cotton fiber because synthetics melt and stick to your skin.
Leather shoes preferrably with steel toes. No synthetic materials because they will melt and stick to your skin.

An office at 68 degrees F is a bit cool but a shop at 68 is OK if you know how to dress for the temperature. Yup, a T-shirt is probably a bit light unless it is of good heavy cotton.

Most cal labs are kept very close to 68 degrees and the one very large machine shop I've been in at Lawrence Livermore Labs is kept at 68 degrees as they are looking for ultimate dimensional control. In fact, the lathe for making the laser mirrors is bathed in oil. 

So take your choice, risk your body or not. But I won't promote anything that increases the danger of an already dangerous job or hobby. To do otherwise is not really right because too many hobby machinists don't know their way around machines in the first place.

Sorry if some of you disagree but that's the way I see it.


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## Hopper (May 22, 2017)

Methinks winter in sunny California is not the same as winter in the UK, or even in most of north America (having spent more than one in Montana myself). And Silicon Valley labs are not exactly typical machine shops. But if that is the target audience of your publication, it's all horses for courses I guess.


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## editor123 (May 23, 2017)

The magazine is delivered to amateur machinists all over the world. Mainly focused on building operating scale model engines, gas, steam and Stirling.

Many of the readers are beginning machinists and have no access to formal training so we try to provide some of that.


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## abby (May 24, 2017)

Perhaps the post named "a DIY bandsaw for the shop" should be renamed as "a DIY bandage"


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