# Parksy's v4



## Parksy (Aug 7, 2016)

Hi all

I've started another project, this one being a v4. There aren't any plans as I'm designing it on the fly as I did with my last engine. 
So far I've drilled and bored the crankshaft/camshaft tunnels and cylinder bores. The cylinder bores will be sleeved with cast iron liners.
I've just (almost) completed the crankshaft which is one piece 4140. Usually I find eccentric turning on the lathe to be a stressful event(especially on the mini lathe) but this time round everything just worked smoothly.
I haven't made provisions for a bearing in the centre of the crankshaft, I plan on running two large ball bearings on the outside and the fact that it is a single piece of 4140 thought it would be plenty strong enough.
Anyway, here are some progress pics.



















Cheers and thanks for viewing

Andy


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## oldboy (Aug 7, 2016)

Love what you are doing.  Will be following with interest the build progress.

Barry.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 7, 2016)

Good luck Parksy. I will follow your build.--Brian


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## stevehuckss396 (Aug 7, 2016)

Me too!

Nice so far.


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## Parksy (Aug 13, 2016)

Thanks all.

Not much to report on at the moment. The crankshaft journals are slightly oversized and I'll polish them later on.
I've milled some sections from inside the block to give clearance for the con rods. I need to work out how to minimise the size of the bigends while still making them removable. If anyone has tips or pictures, I'd appreciate this.
Was going to make bronze bearings for the big ends, what sort of thickness should I aim for? Previously I made them a whopping 1mm thick as size wasn't an issue.


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## Parksy (Aug 19, 2016)

Cylinder liners are under way. Cast iron is the material used.


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## michael-au (Aug 19, 2016)

Interesting build, good work


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## Parksy (Aug 20, 2016)

All liners have been completed. I bought a new boring bar and the finish I'm achieving is excellent, so a light hone and I'm finished.
Also started on milling some cooling fins. Slow process.


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## ZebDog (Aug 20, 2016)

Nice work add me to the list of followers


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## Parksy (Aug 20, 2016)

Thanks Zebdog.
Cooling fins are completed. The 4mm end mill doesn't like to get loaded up too much so had to take many light passes to get the depth. But now it looks engine like...


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## Parksy (Aug 21, 2016)

Made some covers to retain the crankshaft and camshaft bearings.


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## Parksy (Aug 21, 2016)

The number of components is growing quickly.


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## Parksy (Aug 22, 2016)

My intent is to make an oil sump and have the bottom end splash lubed. What sort of oil should I use and to what level should I aim for? 
I've never pulled apart a splash lubed 4 stroke engine before so I'm not familiar with its design. 

Cheers


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## stevehuckss396 (Aug 22, 2016)

Parksy said:


> My intent is to make an oil sump and have the bottom end splash lubed. What sort of oil should I use and to what level should I aim for?
> I've never pulled apart a splash lubed 4 stroke engine before so I'm not familiar with its design.
> 
> Cheers



I use 10-W40 and just have the bottom 1/16 - 1/8 inch of the rod contact the oil. Thats what I do.


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## Parksy (Aug 23, 2016)

Thanks Steve. 

I'm assuming when the engine is running, the splash created is enough to reach the bores and small ends also?


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 23, 2016)

Parksy said:


> Thanks Steve.
> 
> I'm assuming when the engine is running, the splash created is enough to reach the bores and small ends also?


That's right, it does. If you have too much splash, it gets more oil on the cylinder walls than the rings can handle, and the engine will smoke bad from oil getting past the rings.---Brian


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## Parksy (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks Brian.

That would be almost entertaining to watch I think.


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## Parksy (Aug 24, 2016)

Started on the sump. It is basically a cover which will be hollowed out as the crank sits higher on this engine compared to a standard v configured engine, so oil capacity will be adequate enough.


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## Parksy (Aug 25, 2016)

Sump is attached. Next will be a frame to support the engine.


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## Brian Rupnow (Aug 25, 2016)

Parksy--One of the things that I found difficult in engines with such a shallow oil sump, is how do you check the level of the oil? There is such a small difference between a full sump and a "not full" sump, that I never did come up with a good answer. You can't really tell with a dipstick, because the oil will "creep up" the stick and give a false reading. You can't see into the enclosed crankcase to tell how much oil is in there. The closest I got to an answer was to put a drain in the side of the crankcase with the bottom of the drain hole at the desired level of fluid. The filler cap was higher up on the block, and I would take the plug out of the drain and add oil from the top until it started to flow out of the drain. At that point I would know there was a sufficient level of oil and put the plug back into the drain and the filler cap and run the engine.  I was never real happy with that, but couldn't come up with a better way.---Brian


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## Parksy (Aug 25, 2016)

Gday Brian, thanks for the suggestion. This is something that I've been thinking about. I've thought about using clear tube as a sight gauge as it gives me a chance to monitor the level. But then it's not something I'm 100% on at this stage.


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## Jyman (Aug 26, 2016)

Couldn't you take a small round piece of glass and make a hole to fit the glass into and seal it with silicone or some other type of sealant.

Or would that have to great of a chance of leaking?


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## Parksy (Aug 26, 2016)

Gday Jyman, not a bad idea. My concern is that I need the oil level to be higher than the sumps highest level, so the gauge would need to transition between the sump and the block.


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## Parksy (Aug 27, 2016)

Cut some stock and milled to size and attachment holes drilled to create the heads. This isn't the final shape of the heads and I'm thinking of somehow having the rocker gear recessed into the heads slightly.


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## Parksy (Aug 28, 2016)

Knocked up what will eventually be one of the camshafts. Material is silver steel. I still haven't worked out a firing order yet, so will be a little while until I work on this again.


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## Parksy (Aug 31, 2016)

Started on a frame to support the engine. Need to counter bore the mounting holes and possibly chamfer the edges. Not sure if I'm happy with the height or if I should lower the vertical posts by a little. It's made from 304 stainless so it has some mass to it. Hopefully absorb some vibrations if this thing runs.


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## IceFyre13th (Aug 31, 2016)

Parksy said:


> I still haven't worked out a firing order yet, so will be a little while until I work on this again.



1 4 3 2 would be standard firing order


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## Cogsy (Sep 1, 2016)

More conventional for a V4 would be 1-3-2-4 like the Ford V4's used.


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## IceFyre13th (Sep 1, 2016)

Why did Ford fire left bank right bank, just about every other V4 fires as I stated.......Front left, rear right, rear left rear right, it made balancing the engine easier.

Fords Essex V4's have to be externally balanced (via a balance shaft) to achieve that firing order and they were 60 degree blocks. "The engines were infamous for their rough running characteristics and  reliability problems such as the tendency for these engines to have head  gasket leaks." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Essex_V4_engine)

90 degree blocks are the smoothest running design and do not require external balancing.

The answer to my question at the top......."Ford has a better idea" (sarcasm implied...lol)


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## Cogsy (Sep 1, 2016)

Maybe just for that funky sound...


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## Parksy (Sep 3, 2016)

Thanks for the information guys, keep it up. More info the better!

Anyway, I chamfered the edges on the frame. Also made the con rods. Material is 7075 aluminium. I wasn't sure how well this material performs so I made the con rods beefy. Probably over kill but the weight is still very low so hopefully all good and doesn't introduce any excessive vibrations.
Small end bearings will be bronze and pressed in, big ends will be split bronze bushes.


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## Longboy (Sep 3, 2016)

...those con rods are about right for a model top fuel drag car engine.


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## Parksy (Sep 3, 2016)

Haha cheers longboy.

Testing to see that the rods fit and spin freely within the block. Had to file small sections within the block where I was getting interference but all is good now.


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## Parksy (Sep 4, 2016)

Big end bearings are done. LG2 bronze. Pistons have also been started. I've machined the Pistons 0.02mm under bore size. Is this gap too small?
The pic shows it freshly parted off. No finger prints on it yet...



















I just bought myself a small sand blasting cabinet and some glass bead media. Is this the preferred material to use for aluminium? If anyone has tips to share id appreciate this.


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## Parksy (Sep 6, 2016)

Pistons are done. Next will be small end bearings and some gudgen pins and hopefully assemble it and make sure all spins well. Then will make some piston rings.


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## Jyman (Sep 7, 2016)

It's coming together nicely, those connecting rods sure are beefy!!! I'm sure you could drop some weight on them if you needed to.  I can't wait to see this thing run


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## Parksy (Sep 8, 2016)

Thanks Jyman. The more I work on this build the more confident I feel about it. I have purchased the ignition components required and will utilise a Hall effect ignition system with a wasted spark. This way I can get away without using a distributor.

The gudgen pins and small end bearings are complete and pressed into the con rods.


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## Parksy (Sep 9, 2016)

Tested out the new sand blast cabinet and I love it. Sand blasted the bottom end and cylinder heat sinks and it has given it a uniform appearance. 
I've pressed in one side of the crank bearings, this allows me to still insert and remove the crankshaft for testing purposes. Installed all pistons and connecting rods and ran it on the lathe. The big end bearings are tight and I've never had luck with them just working, they always require running in first. The crank journals are 0.02mm under (9.98mm) and the big ends are reamed to 10mm. Is this too tight? 
The current setup will work once it's run in, then I'll make the piston rings and bed them in. Progress is good!


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## Cogsy (Sep 9, 2016)

I'm not sure you should 'bed in' the piston rings - not if you plan on using cast iron rings. In theory (at least in full size operation) it's much better to run the rings under operating conditions rather than light load - or in this case no load. Otherwise you risk 'glazing' the bore and end up with worse sealing than if you'd left them alone to run in under operation. I've built a couple of I.C. engines with homemade cast iron rings and I haven't run them in at all before starting the engine. The compression increase once they've run awhile is huge - some of that is the valves sealing better after seating properly but some is surely due to the rings bedding themselves in to a true running fit under compression forces. Just my 0.02c (and probably not worth that much).


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## mayhugh1 (Sep 9, 2016)

I agree with Cogsy. I 'motor' mine in for a short while just to verify the oil and coolant pumps are doing their job reliably. I realize this may be a religious topic with some, and so consider it only an opinion. - Terry


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 9, 2016)

I've seen a variety of opinions on "running in" cast iron rings, from "no run in at all" to "run in for 4 to 6 hours". I'm not qualified to speak from personal experience, because I have never been that successful at making and running cast iron rings on my model engines. However, to support Cogsy's opinion, I was involved in building many automotive engines for both street and drag cars, and none of those engines were "run in". Many of the "drag car" engines didn't even have the courtesy of being "worn in gradually" with the engine running.---and they all worked well to hold compression---and the compression did improve after the engines had ran for a while.


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## Parksy (Sep 9, 2016)

Thanks for the advice guys. When I think back to when I got my last engine going, there was a noticeable difference in compression after running the engine (on petrol) a couple of times. But in saying this, I did initially run it on the lathe and this did give a little extra bounce. I don't really have an expert opinion on this as I'm still learning, but this time round I might try and give minimal running with the rings installed until I'm ready to fuel it.

Cheers


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 9, 2016)

I run almost all of my engines in for half an hour before firing them, but not for the rings. (I use Viton rings, which don't require any run in as they are a high temperature elastomeric compound.) Most times, due to build up of tolerances, the crankshaft or camshaft will "bind" a bit in the bushings. A good coating of oil and a half hour run in will get rid of minor binding and let the crankshaft spin freely. On my most recent engine build, the Rupnow Vertical engine, the crankshaft bearings were ball bearings, so didn't require any "run in", however I had minor binding between the crankshaft and camshaft gears, so the "run in" was more to free the gears up from any minor interference.


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## Parksy (Sep 10, 2016)

I gave the rotating assembly another run on the lathe and it spins a lot better now. I used generic additive free oil and dripped it onto the rotating parts to keep it lubed. One thing I've wondered is the oil turns black. I'm assuming this is minute amounts of metal particles. If things are bed in perfectly, does the oil stop turning black? Or at least to a lesser extent?


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## Brian Rupnow (Sep 10, 2016)

I think the right answer is "To a lesser extent".


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## Parksy (Sep 12, 2016)

2nd camshaft is started. Waiting for some steel gears to arrive from China which I'll use to drive the cams. I plan to have one disk mounted on each cam which will have two magnets each to run two hall sensors. This way I don't need a distributor.


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## Parksy (Sep 13, 2016)

I got lucky with my eBay gear purchase. They fit! They are fairly thick so I'll turn them down and add a provision to fasten them to the shaft.


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## Parksy (Sep 16, 2016)

More work done on the heads today. I miss read my drawings and accidentally drilled the valve holes in the wrong spot. Fortunately, because of the size of the cylinders, they still fit and I can use this setup. I have more room now for the spark plug. 
Got a bit of chatter on the mini mill when cutting out the combustion chambers in the head, but the second attempt achieved a better finish by slowing the mill to almost a crawl.


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## Parksy (Sep 17, 2016)

Making an engine on the fly without designs isn't that difficult a task, but making it aesthetically pleasing is difficult. Doing more work on the heads and trying to visualise how it is going to look once finished. Certainly takes a lot of thinking.
Thinking of using a ball nose mill and adding some shallow cooling grooves.


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## Parksy (Sep 18, 2016)

Used a wood router bit to put a chamfer on the top edge of the heads. Works very well. I was going to mill the outer side of the heads where the exhaust manifold would go, just to change the angle as it's flat from the block all the way up, but the shape is growing on me.
Mounted the rotary table to the mill to create 'spokes' on the cam gears also.


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## Parksy (Sep 25, 2016)

Progress is slow at this stage. Up until now everything went smoothly. I made 8 valve cages and destroyed four while pressing them into the head. Removing the cages wasn't a problem, but now I need to make another four. I successfully installed the other four.
Reason for destroying the other four was relying on a cheap set of verniers and not using a micrometer. They were far too over sized for a press fit and ended up crushing under force. Lesson learnt. I also disassembled the engine to remove the crankshaft and cut a key way.


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## bigrigbri (Sep 25, 2016)

Nice job. Will this engine have a low cr to enable smooth low speed show operation.


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## Parksy (Sep 26, 2016)

Gday bigrigbri 

I haven't yet measured the head combustion chamber, but if it is 1cc (good chance that it's less than this), then the engine will have a compression ratio of about 8.5:1. But it's easier to lower the ratio than raise it so all is good.

Cheers


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## Parksy (Sep 27, 2016)

Valve cages are completed. This time around the evolution went very smoothly. Next I'll drill the nessessary ports and spark plug holes. Will be using 1/4 32 thread spark plugs that are used in RC aircraft.
I'm looking forwards to making the exhaust for this thing. I have some stainless tube that has 1mm wall thickness but bends relatively easy by hand. Is silver soldier the choice material for brazing? Will it hold up to the temperature? Previously I used nickel/silver rods but this needed a much much higher temp to melt, so looking for an easier option.


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## mayhugh1 (Sep 27, 2016)

Parksy,
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't notice any mention of a plan to liquid cool the engine. I'm wondering about the current lack of even cooling fins on the heads which is where the heat will really be generated. A multi-cylinder engine is going to create more heat than a single cylinder, and it will be much more difficult to get that heat out. And so, expect the temperature to rise very quickly - within tens of seconds. You'll at least have to consider this in the selection of your engine's clearances as well as your method to insulate the carb and induction system. So far, it looks like your exhaust will be the major escape route for the heat, and that may not be enough even with an external fan blowing over the engine. Have you seen any running examples of an air-cooled V-4?
 I certainly admire someone who can make up their design as they go. It's never been something I've been able to do. My scrap pile would already have contained more parts than the engine. Best of luck. - Terry


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## Parksy (Sep 27, 2016)

Thanks for the post Terry. You are correct about the lack of liquid cooling as i haven't added provisions for this. Once I've finished all the necessary ports and rocker mounts I will be working out how and where I can mill some cooling fins into the heads. I really should have given more thought to this, and it is something I'll be monitoring if it decides to fire up.


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## Parksy (Oct 1, 2016)

I remember when I first tried making valves(almost a year ago), I thought it was the most frustrating evolution ever. I couldn't get it right and had issues getting the stems parallel due to being so long and small in diameter. But now I find it a satisfying evolution and can produce consistent valves that I'm happy with, thanks to the advise given by members on this site. Thank you!
These are made from 303 stainless. I'm used to 304 or 316, but 303 is just wonderful stuff. So easy to machine.


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## Parksy (Oct 2, 2016)

I have completed the valves. I used a HSS parting tool that I ground down to about 0.7mm width and parted a small groove to use e-clips to retain the valve springs. So simple and easy to do.


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## ZebDog (Oct 2, 2016)

Nice work on the valves 
I used e-clips on my Webster works a treat


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## Parksy (Oct 3, 2016)

Drilled, counter bored and tapped the spark plug holes. Ports drilled within the heads. This part seems to always make me nervous but went well without drilling into any 'vacant' spots within the head.
The entire build I've been looking forwards to making some headers, and a couple hours of work and it's almost done. Still need to braze it together and clean up the ends.


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## Cogsy (Oct 4, 2016)

Pipes look good. What did you use to bend them and are they the cheap SS drinking straws off eBay? (I'm hoping so cos I've got a heap of them in stock for the same purpose - just hoping they work).


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## Parksy (Oct 4, 2016)

Cheers Al.

I purchased the stainless tubes from Hong Kong off ebay. It's 8mm Diameter with 1mm wall and bends nicely. I just used a cheap pipe bender off eBay.
I also have some of those stainless drinking draws but I haven't tried doing anything with them.

Do a search for "capillary stainless tube" on eBay, this is the stuff I used.


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## gbritnell (Oct 4, 2016)

The engine is really beginning to take shape Parksy. The exhaust pipes came out nice. 
gbritnell


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## Parksy (Oct 5, 2016)

Thanks Gbritnell.

I've brazed the tubes on using nickel silver rods. Wondering what everyone uses to remove the black marks?


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## Longboy (Oct 5, 2016)

You can look up "jewelers pickle" on the web. This might be a pain as the black may not be only on the surface but penetrates the flange and tube (maybe) and the chemical pool involved. I would coat the flange with aluminum paint as a cover up for an aesthetic look/ see then. Some home formulas for the pickle to play with too.

http://www.natashalh.com/tutorial-thursday-recipe-to-make-your-own-natural-jewelers-pickle/


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## Blogwitch (Oct 5, 2016)

Parksy,

The blackening on the pipes can usually be removed with a rotary wire brush, I use my large buffing centre with a 5" wheel, but the small Dremel type might work. Try brass first then if that is too slow, revert to steel. If you use steel and it still isn't coming off, then it is most probably too embedded in the surface of the pipe. Then I think the only way is to polish through it as I don't think anything chemical will achieve what you need.
If the brushes work, you might have to repolish afterwards as there might be fine scratched left on the job.

John


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## Parksy (Oct 6, 2016)

Thanks guys, I'll use both the home made Pickeling paste and wire brush. 

I milled the cam lobes this arvo. It's been something that's been worrying me but after doing it and being able to see it visually, I had realised that my initial angles were wrong and quickly rectified before I made any permanent mistakes. I'm happy with how they turned out, I just need to cut the ends off and sort the gear end.








Edit: if anyone is looking at the lobes and wondering what's going on, the two inside lobes on each cams are the intake lobes. Outer lobes are exhaust.


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## mayhugh1 (Oct 6, 2016)

Parksy,
I may be in the midst of a senior moment, but don't your two cams need to be machined as mirror images to one another since they rotate in opposite directions? - Terry


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## Parksy (Oct 6, 2016)

mayhugh1 said:


> Parksy,
> I may be in the midst of a senior moment, but don't your two cams need to be machined as mirror images to one another since they rotate in opposite directions? - Terry



The cams will both run in the same direction. But maybe I'm also having a moment myself, so I'm happy to be corrected... please do so if I've made an error.

What happens on the left bank also occurs on the right bank (at a different interval ofcourse).


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## mayhugh1 (Oct 6, 2016)

Ah, yes. It wasn't a senior thing after all. It was my dyslexia. - Terry


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## Parksy (Oct 9, 2016)

The cam gears I originally purchased from China, then dressed them up to how I wanted them to look. Unfortunately, despite being advertised with a 6mm bore, this was more like 6.5mm and would wobble a lot on the shaft. So I chucked the gear on the lathe and ran an 8mm end mill down the guts and made a bush for it to sit on. No more wobble.
I also nickel plated them for corrosion protection.

For the majority of the build, I had concerns with clearance inside the block. The cam lobes and con rods do touch as certain positions, and by touch I mean they lock the engine up. So I timed the cams to the crankshaft, gave it a spun and all is good! No contact! I discovered this issue when making the cam blanks and wondered why I couldn't install them into the block. So I was hoping that when I finally machined the lobes,(ie removed material from the cams) that this would eleviate this problem. Feeling relieved! Fluked it!




Currently working on some rocker supports on the head.


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## Parksy (Oct 12, 2016)

I've made a start on the rocker gear. Next will be the rockers. I've only ever used mild steel bar to make the rockers. I'll case harden the contact point and probably the rocker pivot bore also. Does anyone have anything against the use of this material in this application?


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 12, 2016)

Mild steel will work fine for that application.


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## Parksy (Oct 15, 2016)

I made the lifters recently but out of an unknown material. I soon found out that it was stainless. So these were scrapped. I made another set out of drill rod and oil quenched them. They are file hard and slide nicely against the cam lobes. 

I've almost completed the rocker arms also. I used the angle grinder and cut individual strips  and machined them individually. Time consuming but they are 90% complete. I will case harden them and nickel plate them for corrosion protection and to look nice.


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## Parksy (Oct 15, 2016)

Nickel plated the rockers. They came out really nice. And easy to do at home with only basic equipment.


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## Parksy (Oct 16, 2016)

Made spacers to locate the rockers to their respective positions.




I'm really pleased with how this engine is turning out, but I'm not sure what I want to do with the carby setup, whether I should have a single one in the middle or two seperate carbs. Open to suggestions.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 16, 2016)

I would opt for a single carb in the middle.


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## Parksy (Oct 22, 2016)

Decided to go the single carb for simplicity. I've made the intake manifold and mounted an RC aircraft carby on top. I've also replaced the head attaching hardware with studs.
Im starting to feel nervous about this build now. It won't be far from attempting a start, last major components are piston rings, pushrods,  flywheel and the ignition components. That feeling of whether it will start or not is unsettling, but we shall see...


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## Ghosty (Oct 22, 2016)

Parksy, looks great, Looking to start an engine, but have to order all the materials to start with, I have a supply of alloy plate and brass/bronze bush material but not the alloy blocks or steel bar stock.

Cheers


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## Parksy (Oct 22, 2016)

Cheers Ghosty,

Most of the materials I use I purchase online. There are some good sellers on eBay for aluminium bar where you can choose what size you like. 

I am fortunate with where I am as there is a steel supplier, but only stainless and mild steel. 

I regularly buy from this seller as they sell fine grain cast iron, bronze, 4140, etc
http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/offcuts.galore?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2754


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## Ghosty (Oct 22, 2016)

Parksy said:


> Cheers Ghosty,
> 
> Most of the materials I use I purchase online. There are some good sellers on eBay for aluminium bar where you can choose what size you like.
> 
> ...


I use the same bloke, very quick postage.

Cheers


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## petertha (Oct 22, 2016)

Parksy, looking good, you're a fast builder. 
You really have that nickel plating down pat, parts look nice.

When you were talking about oil sump & ignition & such I assumed this to be a gasoline engine. But now I'm eyeing methanol carb & threaded plug holes, but hard to judge scale. What's your plan?


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## Parksy (Oct 23, 2016)

Thanks Petertha. 

It will be spark ignition and I have some 1/4" 32tpi spark plugs ready to install. The carb is a methanol carb, and I will try to start the engine on this type of fuel. My other engine starts really easily on methanol fuel, plus apparently it runs cooler than petrol? Or so I've been told. But at the end of the day I haven't made it to run on any particular fuel, the carb was just available to use.

I've sand blasted the heads and intake manifold so it doesn't look so mismatched. I also managed to remove the black stuff from the exhaust manifolds post brazing. I'm happy with how it's turned out. I also had a play with another camera to try and take nicer photos.


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## gbritnell (Oct 23, 2016)

Parksy,
If I might make a suggestion. Make some insulator blocks for the ends of the intake manifold. These can be made from Corian, Teflon or some similar material. What will happen when you get the engine running is the heat from the heads will heat up the manifold and then the carb. Once the carb gets warm enough it will boil the fuel out of it (vapor lock) and the engine will stall and won't be able to be restarted until it cools. 
I had to do this on my V-twin engine. 
gbritnell


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## Parksy (Oct 23, 2016)

Good idea Gbritnell. I didn't even think about this, but shouldn't have any problems with fitting some insulators.


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## Parksy (Oct 25, 2016)

Pushrods are completed. There's nothing to them, they are just 1/8" stainless rods with the ends rounded. One end fits into the lifter and the other into a hollowed out hex screw that I use for adjusting valve clearance.
The pushrod on the very left was the first one I made and is slightly too small as the screw is unwound far too much. Easy fix.
Can see in the pic a flywheel that I started ages ago. It started off as flat bar I've turned it down but still need to hollow out the inside section. I'd like to make a flywheel with straight spokes, and I've got a basic idea on how to do it, drilling out the corners of the spokes then using an end mill to remove the bulk. I've never tried it before so I'm keen to learn a new trick.


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## Gordo (Oct 26, 2016)

Great looking build, can't wait to see the videos of it running.
Keep up the good work.
Gordo


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## Parksy (Oct 28, 2016)

Cheers Gordo. Appreciate the kind words.

The engine is ringed now. Picture only shows four piston rings but I've installed two rings per piston. 
One issue I always come across when making rings, is what depth I need to put into the piston itself. I made the rings 1mm thick and put a 1.1mm depth on the Pistons. But despite this additional clearance, I found myself having to increase the depth on the Pistons slightly and spinning the ring in its groove with wd40, to wear it in so to speak before it fit would fit in the cylinder. What depth on the piston should I aim for if I make 1mm thick rings?




The rings add a little extra resistance and I'm tempted to run them in on the lathe. But from the advice given on here, I should avoid this until I want to start it.


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## Ghosty (Oct 28, 2016)

Parksy, will have to see if I can find my old Kent's Mechanical Engineers Book, it will have it in it, been a while since I have done piston and ring sets. Love the build, following along.

Cheers


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## mayhugh1 (Oct 28, 2016)

Parksy,
I use about five thousandths clearance between the back of my rings and the piston. If your ring isn't going down in the groove completely your grooving tool may not have had sharp enough corners for the edges of the rings, or there could be a burr left on the ring. - Terry


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## Ghosty (Oct 28, 2016)

Parksy, Looked in the book, generic setup 6thou/inch bore back of ring to ring grove base (Refer OEM spec's) Ring grove would be 12thou less that the inner ring dia as fitted in the cylinder. Due to the small size of these engines a lot of these settings may be too much clearance. Hope this helps

Cheers


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## Ghosty (Oct 29, 2016)

Parksy,
I was doing some engine work this arvo, measured some rings and piston sizes on a 39mm piston, ring thickness 1mm, width 1.7mm, ring grove depth, 2mm, gives a clearance of .3mm(11thou), this is on a 38cc F/S spark ign petrol burner. 
Just for you info.

Cheers


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## Parksy (Oct 31, 2016)

Thanks for the info guys. This gives me a good idea on what I should be aiming for.


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## Parksy (Nov 1, 2016)

Borrowed a flywheel from my last engine. The engine has been assembled for the final time and sealed accordingly where applicable. I've started working on the ignition side of things, really not far to go.


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## Parksy (Nov 3, 2016)

Needed a way to drive the engine for start up, so came up with a very basic tool that fits into the chuck on a battery powered drill and drives the flywheel end of the engine.


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## Parksy (Nov 5, 2016)

I have mounted some hall sensors to the engine and made some discs out of aluminium that contain two magnets each. The ignition system I chose has a red LED which is handy to test that I've installed the magnets the correct way around and also for timing purposes.

If things go to plan, I may attempt a start tomorrow.


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## 10K Pete (Nov 5, 2016)

Watchin' and Waitin' and Waitin' and Watchin'!!! Just itching to see it run!!:thumbup:

Pete


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## Parksy (Nov 6, 2016)

Attempted a start today, but no success. I suspect I may not have enough compression to make it self sustaining as it appears to run ok while driven by the drill. But I'm one step closer to the end result. I've made a quick video to show what happens when trying to start. I've got it hooked up to a rudimentary vapour carb but the results are fairly similar when using a regular carb. I just wanted to see if I got a different result.
https://youtu.be/qgs4-WdlHmI


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## Parksy (Nov 8, 2016)

Well the more I try to run the engine the better the compression gets, so I don't think this is the problem. I think it could actually be a breathing problem, but with the crankcase. I drained the oil and spun the engine by hand and saw bubbles emerge  from the drain hole. I'll make a breather when I get the chance. Thinking of utilising the oil filler screw for the breather tube.


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## Parksy (Nov 9, 2016)

Well I tried running it without the oil fill plug. There was pulses of air shooting out of the port and the engine spun better. But still no start.

My suspicion is now with the wasted spark setup I've got. One cylinder has the wasted spark while exhausting, but the other cylinder has the wasted spark while it's beginning its intake stroke. This could explain the puffs of fuel I'm getting from the carburettor.  
I just need to find a cylinder combination where I can have the wasted spark at a satisfactory timing, but with a 90 degree block and a crankshaft with two throws 180 degrees apart, I'm not sure if this is possible. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it very much!


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## gbritnell (Nov 9, 2016)

Hi Parksy,
Earlier on I had mentioned that my V-twin engine is a 90 degree configuration and has a wasted spark ignition. Like yours on one cycle the spark occurs on the intake stroke but being as there is no compression it doesn't ignite the fuel mixture. I have never had a problem running it this way. I have a crankcase breather on my engine and the only time I get anything out of it is when I really rev the engine. Other than that the breather stays dry. 
The puffs of fuel coming from the carb would seem more like the intake valve isn't sealing like it should.
gbritnell


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## Parksy (Nov 9, 2016)

gbritnell said:


> Hi Parksy,
> Earlier on I had mentioned that my V-twin engine is a 90 degree configuration and has a wasted spark ignition. Like yours on one cycle the spark occurs on the intake stroke but being as there is no compression it doesn't ignite the fuel mixture. I have never had a problem running it this way. I have a crankcase breather on my engine and the only time I get anything out of it is when I really rev the engine. Other than that the breather stays dry.
> The puffs of fuel coming from the carb would seem more like the intake valve isn't sealing like it should.
> gbritnell



You did mention this, I forgot all about it. I apologise.

Was your hall sensor a cam mounted sensor? And how many degrees are seperate from the first cylinder to the second? I seem to remember it having not rotating magnets, but a disc with slots. I imagine this wouldn't be any different to having a disc with magnets. Mine is set to fire, then the cam rotates 225 degrees and fires on the opposite cylinder. Then back to the first cylinder 135 degrees later. (When viewed as a v-twin).
If your setup is the same as this, then I'll remove the heads and work the valves some more.


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## gbritnell (Nov 9, 2016)

Parksy,
My magnet is stationary and I have a timing disc with 2 windows but the configuration would make no difference. 
Lets say you're looking at my engine and the #1 cylinder is to the right and #2 is to the left. Crank is rotating clockwise. While #1 is firing (TDC) #2 is 90 degrees from BDC and on it's intake stroke while it's plug fires. Now the crank rotates (relative to #1) 270 degrees and #2 fires while #1 has gone though it's expansion cycle and has started exhausting by 90 degrees from it's BDC while it's plug is firing. Now the crank has to rotate 450 degrees (360 + 90) to get back to #1 TDC. I have never had any issues with the #2 plug igniting the incoming fuel charge. 
gbritnell


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## Parksy (Nov 10, 2016)

Thanks Gbritnell.

I think I've had some success this evening. I've found out that one of my coils isn't working, why im not sure. I've only ever operated them using a 6v lantern battery and have never had the HT leads disconnected, so I'm a bit upset by this.
But anyway, I tried running the engine using just two cylinders(and two spark plugs removed on the unused cylinders) and I was able to get the engine running slightly. I swapped the ignition components over to the other two cylinders and was able to replicate this. If only the other ignition coil worked, then it may actually run continuously on all four cylinders.

The coils I'm using are the dual output coils from minimag. If anyone has any experience with these then I'd appreciate this a lot.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clqwffx-vwE[/ame]


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## gbritnell (Nov 10, 2016)

Hi Parksy,
The coil I'm using is a very old one that Jerry Howell used to sell. It has a dual output and I suspect it's the same or similar to the one Minimag sells. I have been using mine for close to 10 years now and it has never given me any problems.
gbritnell


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## Parksy (Nov 11, 2016)

Thanks gbritnell.

This morning has been an interesting morning and it's fair to say that 100% of my starting problems are electrical. I can say this with absolute confidence now.
I was in the process of making a test stand to house the four spark plugs, so I could physically see them spark and whether I was getting any arcing over the non firing plugs. As I was clearing my work bench to allow for this I noticed some brand new glow plugs hiding under some things and curiosity got the better of me. I couldn't remember what type of thread the glow plugs were, so I tried installing it onto my test stand and sure enough it's the same thread. 
I managed to find a glow driver with a tiny bit of charge left, installed the single plug into one of the cylinders and voila...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59oQjogZKC0[/ame]


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## petertha (Nov 11, 2016)

Voila! Glow to the rescue! At least for de-bugging purposes. Careful to examine the element now & again, it might not be well suited to long term running on your fuel. But you are off to the races now!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 11, 2016)

Congratulations---I guess. I have something screwy going on with videos on this forum only, and all I can see is your text and a black rectangle.---brian
EDIT--EDIT--EDIT---
I can see it now. I had to change my browser from Internet Explorer to Chrome, and that has made all the videos visible. Great job. I'm proud of ya.---Brian


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## Parksy (Nov 11, 2016)

Thanks guys. Brian, does that mean you can't view any videos? Have you tried a different browser?

I impatiently waited for the glow charger to charge slightly then gave it a go with all four plugs installed...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlcLH9MJAjo[/ame]

I suspect that all four plugs aren't running in this video as I gave it another go while I waited for this video to upload and it certainly sounded louder the second time round. 

I'm absolutely stoked!!


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 11, 2016)

I can't view any videos on this forum only. I can see them fine on the other two forums I post on. This forum, I only see a big black rectangle plus the text, even in videos which I post myself. This is something relatively new, in the last two weeks. EDIT--EDIT---I have my system fixed and I can see the videos now. Congratulations on a runner.


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## Cogsy (Nov 11, 2016)

Congrats Parksy. Hope you sort your electrical Gremlins out soon.


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## Ghosty (Nov 12, 2016)

Congrats on a runner
Parksy, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasted_spark, may help with the spark problem

Cheers


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## stragenmitsuko (Nov 12, 2016)

I don't know if this is any help , but back in the day's when I was converting 
car engines from carburettors to electronic fuel injection , I have used ford edis wasted spark coils 
on multiple occasions . 
Edis stands for electronic distributorless ignition system .
They are vitually indestructible and very easy to drive .  
The coils may not be up to scale for a model engine , but for debugging purposes maybe it's exactly what you need . 

Most ford dealers will have a box of them on a shelf gathering dust , and otherwise they'll cost only a couple of $ at the wreckers .  

Pat


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## Parksy (Nov 12, 2016)

Thanks guys and thanks for the suggestion Pat. I will sus the spark side of things out. While it's nice that it works with the glow plugs, I can't let it idle for too long otherwise the plugs cool down too much and the engine stalls.


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## Parksy (Nov 19, 2016)

I managed to get the engine going with the spark ignition, but my ignition leads were arcing on the heads and I zapped myself a few too many times before I decided to stick with the glow plugs. They almost feel like cheating, but the engine starts and runs very well on them. 
The more I run it the better it runs. I tried checking the revs with a rev counter but it was showing over 9000rpm when I opened the throttle up?? Surely this can't be correct.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAd-PQh1ZmY&feature=share[/ame]

I found my YouTube videos on our smart tv and the aspect ratio was very odd. Do my videos appear normal to everyone?


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## Brian Rupnow (Nov 19, 2016)

It sounds great to me. The video takes up a narrow strip in the center with very large black margins on both sides. does not display like a regular youtube video.---Brian


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## fuzzymuff (Nov 19, 2016)

Excellent project and great videos. Thanks for sharing your build.


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## Cogsy (Nov 19, 2016)

Sounds very nice to me too. Your aspect ratio looks fine to me, but as Brian said you've filmed it with your phone in a vertical orientation so we only see a narrow strip. Your TV is probably stretching it horizontally and causing the distortion. I try to only shoot video with my phone in 'landscape' or horizontal orientation so it fills YouTube viewing window but it's a very common error.


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## Parksy (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks guys. Cogsy, I didn't realise it was fixed that easily. Next time I'll film holding the phone horizontally.


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## ZebDog (Nov 20, 2016)

Congrats on a fine looking engine. Throttle response is very sharp. &#8220;I like&#8221;


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## Cogsy (Nov 20, 2016)

Parksy said:


> Thanks guys. Cogsy, I didn't realise it was fixed that easily. Next time I'll film holding the phone horizontally.


 
It certainly is that easy *except* there is an 'up' and a 'down' side of your phone you've got to be careful of. If you hold it the wrong way all your pics and videos end up upside down. For an iPhone your home button should be to the right for correct orientation (I'm guessing it's probably the same for other phones).


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## Parksy (Nov 20, 2016)

Cogsy said:


> It certainly is that easy *except* there is an 'up' and a 'down' side of your phone you've got to be careful of. If you hold it the wrong way all your pics and videos end up upside down. For an iPhone your home button should be to the right for correct orientation (I'm guessing it's probably the same for other phones).



Haha, glad you mentioned that. Would have saved some frustration later.

Cheers zebdog. I'm really pleased with how it runs. I've definitely got the hang of making IC engines. I need a bigger lathe and mill now so I can make something with more cylinders.


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## Parksy (Dec 2, 2016)

Held the phone to the side and it works perfectly. Thanks cogsy.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUQmDddL_Fs&feature=share[/ame]


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## Fluffy (Dec 2, 2016)

G'Day Parksy,
Just fabulous & sounds soooo good mate. I have followed your posts intermittently & you should be very pleased with the result. Congrats on a great build.
Regards,
Don.


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## rubyfocus (Oct 10, 2017)

Does anybody know why I can't see any of Parksy's posted photographs?  All I can see is some Photobucket notice.  Thanks.


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## stevehuckss396 (Oct 10, 2017)

rubyfocus said:


> Does anybody know why I can't see any of Parksy's posted photographs?  All I can see is some Photobucket notice.  Thanks.



Photobucket wants us all to pay 400 bucks a year to make our photos show up again. That means we have to pony up the money or move our photos to a new site and relink them to the posts so folks like yourself can see them again. I have thousands of photos posted online so mine will remain that way until there is an automated solution.


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## Brian Rupnow (Oct 10, 2017)

Photobucket has changed all it's rules, and want people to pay $400 a year to host their photo's. Anybody who doesn't agree to pay, has their pictures blacked out. Apparently there are ways of getting around this and being able to view the pictures anyways, but I am not familiar with how to do this.


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## rubyfocus (Nov 6, 2017)

Is Parksy still around?  I'm curious to know a little more about the firing order and valve timing on this V4.


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## Parksy (Nov 7, 2017)

Hi rubyfocus, yes still around. Life has been hectic the last year and haven&#8217;t been on here as much as I&#8217;d like. I&#8217;m fairly certain the firing order information is in this thread somewhere. Valve timing wise, both camshafts are made identical, and I&#8217;m also sure the specs are on here. Please let me know if you have issues finding it.


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## rubyfocus (Nov 24, 2017)

Here is what I've gathered so far (I think):

Cylinder numbering is (left to right and left to right) 1,2 and 3,4 the two pairs sharing two crank journals 180 opposed, where the firing order is 1-3-2-4.

 #1 fires first (I'll assume that  to be 0 degrees), then #3 at 180, #2 at 270, then #4 180 degrees later,  which is 450 degrees, then 90 degrees later, back to #1, which is a  total of 540 degrees, which falls short of two crank rotations, which is  720 degrees. 

If all of this is correct, then I am missing something....

I would have figured  that everything is evenly divided by 180 degrees, with 720/4 = 180. But then again, I'm certain that #1 and #4 don't fire simultaneously as would be the case if there was a spark at every 180 degrees. Knowing this then, means that the valve timing is uneven throughout 2 complete crank rotations.

But then of course I'm not even sure if I should be working with two rotations of the crank or one.

So I'm stumped.  And from what I could tell there is little discussion in this thread that has been able to definitively solve the mystery.  Can anybody offer up some explanation?


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## Cogsy (Nov 24, 2017)

It's definitely not every 180 degrees. Using your numbering system, #1 at 0 (left bank, front cylinder), #3 at 180 *(left bank, rear), #4 at 270 (right bank, rear cylinder), #2 at 450 (right bank, front) - all as you suggest so far I think - then back to #1 270 degrees later at 720. This makes for the unusual 'beat' of a V4 (and the reason they sound so cool in my opinion).

I think where you made the mistake is assuming there's only 90 degrees of crank rotation between both banks. Going one way there is 90 degrees but going back the other there is 270 degrees because of the direction of crank spin.


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