# X2 mill power feed



## black85vette (Dec 13, 2009)

Just getting started on this project. Websterz was kind enough to send me a surplus drill motor that he got off eBay. I like these because of the clutch and gear reduction in them.  I managed to get the chuck off after a short battle with it.  Hard to remove something stuck when you can't get a good hold on the shaft it is threaded on to.

Did some exploring also. Took the trigger from a DeWalt screw driver apart to see what was in it. Very interesting.  Looks like a small PWM circuit built into the trigger assembly. (see pic below) Makes sense. This indicates that the current required is pretty small because the heat sink is not very big. I put my bench supply on the motor and spun it up and confirmed that at full speed with 12 volts the current was well under 1 amp. That is the other nice thing about choosing this kind of motor. 12 volt power supplies are throw away items and I have 3 or 4 of them in a box.

Next thing I need is a Pulse Width Modulator for a speed control.  I have started looking online and have some ideas but if anyone knows where to find one of these surplus or used please post.  I could make my own and have done so with a 555 timer chip but just don't have the time right now.

I have a couple ideas on the coupler, mounting the motor and a cover for it.  I will work on those while looking for the PWM.


----------



## bentprop (Dec 13, 2009)

At least you got the chuck off without major drama,BV.
I had to hacksaw the shaft off a B&D one,only to find the thread was a left handed one .
I use a windscreen wiper motor myself on my slightly larger mill-drill,but the principle is the same.I used an old computer power supply,they're dirt cheap,and can supply a good 5 amps or more on the 12v rail.
For the PWM control,have a look at various electronic stores,they should have a fairly simple kit for such a beastie.However,if you use these,you WILL need to fit limit switches,cuz they don't like being stalled.It lets all the magic smoke out .
On the other hand,you simply replace the 2(or4)diodes,and you're good to go again.
Something like this:
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/ck1400.htm
I must get off my butt,and fit the Honda sliding roof motor I've got onto my Y axis.
Hans.


----------



## websterz (Dec 13, 2009)

bentprop  said:
			
		

> At least you got the chuck off without major drama,BV.
> I had to hacksaw the shaft off a B&D one,only to find the thread was a left handed one .
> I use a windscreen wiper motor myself on my slightly larger mill-drill,but the principle is the same.I used an old computer power supply,they're dirt cheap,and can supply a good 5 amps or more on the 12v rail.
> For the PWM control,have a look at various electronic stores,they should have a fairly simple kit for such a beastie.However,if you use these,you WILL need to fit limit switches,cuz they don't like being stalled.It lets all the magic smoke out .
> ...



This is the one I use:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WYAN92/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Traces are already beefed up. 

I'm looking forward to seeing how your build turns out Rick. based on your past posts I predict a winner! :bow:


----------



## black85vette (Dec 15, 2009)

Got the next bit figured out. Went to the metal store and browsed the aluminum tubing. I wanted a thinner wall but settled for the closest fit. Plan is to house the motor inside the aluminum tube while leaving the clutch adjustment outside at the front next to the table. I cut away about .5" from the bezel that adjusts the clutch tension. This will make the mounting easier. I found some aluminum that is almost exactly the ID that the bezel will fit inside. Just some minor turning on the inside and it will be perfect. The motor will fit without a problem. Then I just need to fabricate some spacers that will go between the motor and the tubing.  I am thinking Delrin since I have a bunch of it in odd end cuts that I got on eBay.

Next up is the mount to the mill and then the coupling. Still not finalized on the PWM controller


----------



## black85vette (Dec 16, 2009)

Took a shot at mounting the motor.  First pic shows the plate that holds everything together with 4 screws. The back side of this plate is also the surface that a bearing runs on allowing the clutch bezel to turn. Next pic shows the bezel cut back behind the round plate to give some clearance. Then finally I took some scrap .125" steel plate and cut it to fit the end of the mill table and low enough to mount the motor. Drilled some holes for the screws and the shaft of the motor.


----------



## black85vette (Dec 16, 2009)

Motor mounted nicely and had plenty of clearance for the clutch bezel. Put it on the table and checked the fit. OK so far.

Still no decision on the PWM control.


----------



## websterz (Dec 16, 2009)

Looking good!! I may have to rebuild mine. ;D


----------



## black85vette (Dec 20, 2009)

Task for today was to make a coupling from the motor to the end of the lead screw. The lead screw has a slot cut in the end of it so I decided to put a roll pin through the coupling and have it ride in the slot. Because the slot is so long I was able to use that to have the coupling slide back away from the motor and disengage the power feed.

In the pics are the parts. I drilled and tapped a piece of aluminum to fit the threads on the motor where the chuck mounted. On the other end I counterbored space for the left handed screw and then cross drilled holes for another roll pin.

The coupling was drilled out to slide over the lead screw and the end of the motor shaft. I milled some slots to engage the pin on the motor shaft.  Then I drilled and inserted a roll pin to ride in the slot of the lead screw.


----------



## black85vette (Dec 20, 2009)

In these shots you can see how the coupling can be retracted for manual operation or slid over the pin in the motor shaft to engage the power feed.  I tried it a couple of times and was able to just reach under and do it without having to bend down and see it to work the coupling.

Hooked up 12 volts and it operates both directions just fine at the lowest clutch setting.  It is just too fast right now. Have some parts on order for the speed control and will work that part out next


----------



## black85vette (Dec 23, 2009)

Have the power feed working now. Have tried a couple of home brew PWM solutions that were not what I wanted. I was getting pretty good results running off a DC supply so that is where I leave it for now. Plenty of torque at 5 volts from the supply. Made some test cuts in aluminum with a .5 inch end mill cutting 10 thou deep. Here is a video:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evoQ9OAKbcU[/ame]

Also attached some pictures. Mounted the control switch on the front of the spindle assembly. Double pole, double throw with center off. Seemed to be a good place to mount because it is up and away from the moving parts plus the main reasons: 1. there were two existing holes and screws used to mount the shield (which I don't have) and I could make use of them without more drilling and tapping.  2. I had a small Radio Shack project box that was the perfect size for this location and the switch I bought. 

I am using a variable power supply from my test bench because I can set the voltage anywhere I want and can also switch over and see how much current is being used. I will switch to something else later.

The best part is the cost. So far I am out $5 in postage, $5 for the aluminum pipe, $3 for the switch. So not counting bits that were surplus, already on hand, or donated the project total is a whopping $13. woohoo1


----------



## Diy89 (Dec 23, 2009)

Sweet. But whats the open end wrench for under the Z adj wheel?


----------



## black85vette (Dec 23, 2009)

Diy89  said:
			
		

> Sweet. But whats the open end wrench for under the Z adj wheel?



There is a round magnet there and I keep the wrench for the draw bar right where it is needed so I don't have to look for it! ;D


----------



## Troutsqueezer (Dec 23, 2009)

Very nice. I think that's the cleanest version I've seen yet. How much current does it draw under load?

-T


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Dec 23, 2009)

Nice. Only two problems with it....

1) Now I need one.
2) Remembering which way to throw the switch. Eh? Hm? Know what I mean?

Great job.


----------



## oldguy (Dec 24, 2009)

Nice job, but I have a question.

What brand of drill is that motor assembly from? The few dead drills I've taken apart have used the case as the motor housing and weren't nearly as clean and neat as the one you've used.

I've played with using a windshield wiper motor or a window winder motor, but they must draw some big amps as they shut down an 8 amp rated power supply. You could probably even gear this one down a bit more and end up with more torque.

Glenn


----------



## Artie (Dec 24, 2009)

I hear what you are saying Zee. It looks a great conversion, and its something I would never be without again, sort of like power steering, auto and airco in your car. Switch direction is never an issue, or at least never has been for me. Does it have limit switches Vette or are you relying on the drill clutch?

I rarely run onto mine but think they are a great safety item.

Well done mate.


----------



## lathe nut (Dec 24, 2009)

black85vette ,that is very impressive, gosh the projects are piling up between you and Brian I would be able to get any rest for several hundred years, I have an older drill 110 Volt with the forward Reverse variable speed, might give that a try, thanks for the information that you have shared, great video, Lathe Nut


----------



## zeeprogrammer (Dec 24, 2009)

Artie,

I was just having a friendly poke at B85V...I noticed the table start in one direction and then suddenly change direction. ;D Like someone toggled the switch the wrong way. ;D It would be something I would do but I wouldn't be so quick to correct...I'd still be saying 'what?'.


----------



## black85vette (Dec 24, 2009)

Troutsqueezer  said:
			
		

> How much current does it draw under load? -T



It draws about 2.1 amps at 5 volts




			
				oldguy  said:
			
		

> What brand of drill is that motor assembly from? The few dead drills I've taken apart have used the case as the motor housing and weren't nearly as clean and neat as the one you've used.
> 
> You could probably even gear this one down a bit more and end up with more torque. Glenn



Glenn, I am not 100% sure what brand it was. Websterz donated the motor and it was already out of the case. But based on how it compares to my 2 DeWalts it looks to be the same. Gearing down would be a lot more difficult than lowering the motor speed. You just don't want to go so low that it does not have enough torque. 

What would be ideal is the motor in my larger cordless DeWalt drill. It has a high/low range and the low range would be absolutely perfect for this.

Yes, compared to a windshield wiper motor the drills use a lot less current because of battery life.




			
				Artie  said:
			
		

> Does it have limit switches Vette or are you relying on the drill clutch?



No limit switches. In using my cordless drills I set the clutch and run the motor until the clutch releases all the time without an issue. Great way to not over tighten screws.




			
				lathe nut  said:
			
		

> I have an older drill 110 Volt with the forward Reverse variable speed, might give that a try,  Lathe Nut



Speed control on 110v is different and the motor may not be round. But that is the fun in projects like this. Use what you have, adapt and innovate.  It is fun to me to take parts and think through a solution and sometimes take it the next step and make it simple and even another to make it clean.




			
				zeeprogrammer  said:
			
		

> I noticed the table start in one direction and then suddenly change direction. ;D Like someone toggled the switch the wrong way. ;D It would be something I would do but I wouldn't be so quick to correct



At least you didn't poke me about turning the Y axis wheel the wrong way. I did that too! Don't know how the math works out but when you have two options you have a 50% chance of getting it right, then why is it that 90% of the time I get it wrong???? 




Thanks for all the nice comments guys!  Merry Christmas to all.


----------



## websterz (Dec 24, 2009)

The motor is from a 14.4 volt Craftsman cordless drill.


----------



## black85vette (Dec 24, 2009)

Little bit of clean up on the wires. I wanted a quick disconnect at the motor so I could both remove the motor easily and disconnect the wires going to the motor if it not being used. I use Anderson Powerpole products for all of my Ham radio and portable equipment so I always have some on hand. 

If you are not familiar with them check out the web sites below. They have become the standard in Ham radio so that we can move and install equipment quickly without having to use every radio manufacturer's power connector. They are genderless (no male/female connector) each is symetrical and plugs into the other. You can connect them side by side with built in dovetails or mount them on a panel. They come in many colors and sizes so you can connect just about anything. They make them big enough to supply power to battery run fork lifts.

Hope you find this useful.

http://www.powerwerx.com/

http://home.comcast.net/~buck0/app.htm

Edit; the tapered dove tails on each side allow you to link them together to make a multi pin connector of whatever size you want quickly.


----------



## prof65 (Dec 25, 2009)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> Don't know how the math works out but when you have two options you have a 50% chance of getting it right, then why is it that 90% of the time I get it wrong????



Don't you know the Murphy's laws? :big: :big: :big:

www.murphys-laws.com

Nice work on your mill.

Merry Christmas.


----------



## Noitoen (Dec 25, 2009)

Now you can tell everybody that you use a cordless drill to make all sorts of parts :big:


----------



## black85vette (Dec 25, 2009)

Noitoen  said:
			
		

> Now you can tell everybody that you use a cordless drill to make all sorts of parts :big:



Thats funny! and useful.


----------



## black85vette (Dec 31, 2009)

Another step towards completion. I have been running the power feed from my bench power supply. A bit of overkill. I dug around and found a power supply from one of my obsolete and retired pieces of electronics and on the back of it said one output was +5 volts at 3 amps.  I need about 2 amps so we are good to go. Hooked it up and it runs like a champ. This means without having to buy a power supply or speed control my cost is staying at $13 total.

I have now made several parts and can report that the power feed works great on this size of mill. Since the mill is limited in the amount of metal it can remove you end up making numerous passes to make wide or deep cuts. That makes for a lot of cranking.  I may yet put a speed control on this but it is working to my satisfaction for now.


----------



## BillH (Jan 13, 2010)

black85vette  said:
			
		

> Little bit of clean up on the wires. I wanted a quick disconnect at the motor so I could both remove the motor easily and disconnect the wires going to the motor if it not being used. I use Anderson Powerpole products for all of my Ham radio and portable equipment so I always have some on hand.
> 
> If you are not familiar with them check out the web sites below. They have become the standard in Ham radio so that we can move and install equipment quickly without having to use every radio manufacturer's power connector. They are genderless (no male/female connector) each is symetrical and plugs into the other. You can connect them side by side with built in dovetails or mount them on a panel. They come in many colors and sizes so you can connect just about anything. They make them big enough to supply power to battery run fork lifts.
> 
> ...



Anderson Power Poles, Sermos, what ever you call them. I used them a lot in the R/C airplane hobby with electrics. I used to work with a company called West Mountain Radio. Most of us are R/C pilots, and obviously hams. Well we came out with the Rig Runner... I guess that is how the power poles became standard in Ham Radio. Just a little bit of history and some "it's a small world" stuff for you.


----------



## chucketn (Jan 24, 2010)

I have 2 cordless drills saved up for such a project. One is a "Speedway" brand, 14v; the other a Black and Decker Firestorm, 18v. The Firestorm is much heavier built in both the motor and the clutch area. I got playing around with them after a electrical problem with my service wires knocked out the chargers.
I had replaced the Firestorm batteries and charger once after a lightning strike, actually bought 2 batteries and 2 chargers, only to have them destroyed when the service wire on the house shorted to ground. That little spark cost $1500 in destroyed electronics. TV's, phones and answering machines, oven controller, and 2 microwaves. 
Two problems. Both motor/clutch units, when removed from the housings, separate into 2 pieces with nothing to hold them together.
Also, I have not been able to remove the chuck from the B&D. Parts list online says it's held on by a left hand threadedTorx screw, but I have nothing to fit it, and can't strong arm it to break the screw.
Any ideas on either of these problems?
Both have high/Low speed clutch switches that I would like to incorperate in my design. 
black85vette, I see from your pictures you mounted your unit to the plate using the 4 screws on the front of the clutch bezel. Did you have to use longer screws?
I have a dc motor controller from a treadmill, would that work to power these motors if I limit the uper voltage out?


----------



## black85vette (Jan 24, 2010)

chucketn  said:
			
		

> Also, I have not been able to remove the chuck from the B&D. Parts list online says it's held on by a left hand threadedTorx screw, but I have nothing to fit it, and can't strong arm it to break the screw.



The chucks can be a struggle. You are going to need to get the LH screw out even if you have to drill off the head. After that the chuck may be on really tight and not want to come loose. I ended up cutting mine apart in pieces on the band saw and then slitting the last part with a cutoff wheel on the Dremel being careful not to damage the threads.



> black85vette, I see from your pictures you mounted your unit to the plate using the 4 screws on the front of the clutch bezel. Did you have to use longer screws?



No I felt like the screws were long enough. This is a fairly low torque application and I was not worried about them.



> I have a dc motor controller from a treadmill, would that work to power these motors if I limit the uper voltage out?



I don't think so. The treadmill controller does not have an easy way to limit the DC output. It pretty much just uses the line voltage without a step down transformer. You are much better off with a controller designed for 24 volts.



Post a picture of the motor / clutch assemblies.  How where they held in the drill? Did the case provide part of the mounting?


----------



## chucketn (Jan 24, 2010)

Finally got some pic's posted of one of my drills. Check here: http://s571.photobucket.com/albums/... Power Feed/?action=view&current=DSCF0921.jpg
I will work on getting pics of the Firestorm, but looks like I'm going to have to destroy the chuck to get it off. Tried drilling out the screw, no go. The chuck on the Firestorm is a lot lighter and flimsier than the one from the Speedway, so no great loss. Plus the jaws don't line up properly when it's closed.
By the way, the Speedway drill has only 2 screws going into the clutch housing, where the one you used had 4.

Chuck in E TN


----------



## black85vette (Jan 24, 2010)

chucketn  said:
			
		

> , but looks like I'm going to have to destroy the chuck to get it off.



Wish there was a better way but you put the reduction gears at risk if you apply too much force.  My old Sears variable speed drill had a hole just behind the chuck and you could put the handle park of the chuck key in it to lock the shaft and remove the chuck. Now that seems like a really cool idea.

Looked at the pics. Since you have to make some sort of cover for it anyway, it looks like you will have to incorporate a mounting system for the two pieces.


----------



## Noitoen (Jan 25, 2010)

If nothing else works, destroy the chuck with a cutting disk. The heat should loosen it enough to remove the rest of the threaded part.


----------



## GOOFY063 (Jan 25, 2010)

CHUCKETN
I'm working on the same project and my Coleman drill looks about the same as yours ill try and get pics tonight as to how I'm holding mine together


----------



## Hilmar (Jan 25, 2010)

Just some Photos of my Power Feed
Hilmar












PS:All is well Paolo


----------



## Paolo (Jan 25, 2010)

Nice idea Hilmar to have a clutch connector...I have the original power feed by SIEG and I'm studying how Tu use it on my Bf20 mill...Nice to ear you again!!
Best regards
Paolo


----------



## black85vette (Jan 25, 2010)

Looks good. Nice clutch mechanism.


----------



## winklmj (Jan 25, 2010)

Hmmmm, HF has these for $17us with a coupon.






Might be worth hacking one up to see what's inside and how it would work.


----------



## chucketn (Jan 26, 2010)

That HF drill looks exactly like my Speedway, except the case is black.

Chuck in E. TN


----------



## websterz (Jan 26, 2010)

This seller is where I got the drill motors 'vette and I used for our power feeds.

http://stores.ebay.com/DonkeyWorkk_Other_W0QQ_fsubZ1QQ_sidZ148802938QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322


----------



## GOOFY063 (Jan 26, 2010)

I used a piece of alum, pipe to hold my motor together, left it short enough so the fan motor can pull air, and turned down what was left of the chuck that i cut off to use as a coupler,


----------

