# european team build?



## pcw (Aug 22, 2011)

hi all. I see quite some european builders on here. wouldnt it be nice idea building a european team built up? shipping things to, and from the USA can get quite expensive. if we europeans could do a teambuild, it would get alot cheaper and easier to do cause there would be no need to recalculate drawings from, or to metric.
just i idea. let us all know what you think of it, maybe we can work something out 
Pascal


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## ChrisB (Aug 26, 2011)

Good idea in my book.

Still setting up the new workshop but would be up for something when it is done. I'm open to any ideas really, obviously I am still of limited experience, but what a great way to learn and get involved with this great forum.

Happy to work metric or imperial, though all of my tooling is metric so that's easier for me.

Cheers Pascal


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## pcw (Aug 26, 2011)

dont worry, im beginner too. had mechanical classes when i was in school. left school 21 years ago ;D only machine i got atm is a small lathe and old drillpress. i do have tons of files though  and loads of patience.
i aint aiming for complicated build. just something fun and easy to get a build going.
ill be happy joining a team build on the forum, but shipping can get kinda expensive like mentioned before. was hoping on just small bit more reactions so we can work something out. would be fun way to start again in "machining" for me and maybe few others here on board.
comon europeans, sign up so we can built some nice engines 
Pascal


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## dsquire (Aug 26, 2011)

Pascal and ChrisB

I wish you lots pf luck at organizing a European team build. It would be nice if both of you could put your location either in your profile or in your tag line so that others such as myself might know where in the world you take up residence, If you need help with this I will be glad to help you. 

Cheers 

Don


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## Omnimill (Aug 27, 2011)

dsquire  said:
			
		

> Pascal and ChrisB
> 
> I wish you lots pf luck at organizing a European team build. It would be nice if both of you could put your location either in your profile or in your tag line so that others such as myself might know where in the world you take up residence, If you need help with this I will be glad to help you.
> 
> ...



+ 1 It's helpful to know where folks are!

Vic.


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 27, 2011)

Guys the team build is not an quick easy process. Very possible but requires perseverance and patience. out of the 5 team builds started here #one and four were completed. #five I expect will be soon. 
I will assist if needed but think an European team captain appropriate. 
1)assemble a team
2) select a plan set
3) assign parts 
4)exchange snail mail addresses
5) make part assigned
6)mail parts to other team members 
7) assemble the engine(s) 
it is that easy well in theory, life is what happens when planning something else. 
Tin


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## robwilk (Aug 27, 2011)

What happens to the finished team build projects ???

Rob.....


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## Noitoen (Aug 27, 2011)

I have a "broken up" workshop at the moment but could give some serious thought, after all, I live in Europe


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## Tin Falcon (Aug 27, 2011)

there was talk of making a single engine and auction it off the proceeds going to a selected charity. 

TB 1 we made 12 engines one guy had to quit due to health(he still got an engine) someone had to pinch hit so one engine extra for charity (I need to assemble it and get it to auction) 
what has happened is each member builds multiple parts one for each team member and one or two extra. each member gets a full set of parts and is able to assemble an engine TB1 was 10 people on the team TB2 was five. Read over the TB posts for details. 
Even though making 5 or ten copies of a part is more work there is more incentive as each team member gets and engine. 
Tin


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## pcw (Aug 27, 2011)

Tin Falcon  said:
			
		

> Guys the team build is not an quick easy process. Very possible but requires perseverance and patience. out of the 5 team builds started here #one and four were completed. #five I expect will be soon.
> I will assist if needed but think an European team captain appropriate.
> 1)assemble a team
> 2) select a plan set
> ...



yeah i know it is quite some work involved, would be fun though. for now i only can make very simple and basic parts. i dont have possibilities at home to mill/turn complicated stuff. could ask friend who makes motorbike parts, but i know he has his machine time fully booked.
im living in Netherlands btw. so anyone in europe, lets give it a try (show the USA members we can do it too  ) 
Pascal


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## ChrisB (Sep 1, 2011)

More than happy to help out with arranging / organising. Workshop should be ready to start doing some real work next month, just waiting for some repairs on the lathe to be completed and the electrics to be finished.

I should be able to cope with pretty much any size parts really and do have reasonable milling capabilities. I have two completed builds under my belt, EZ Engine and EJS Wobbler, both still need posting unfortunately.

Don - I have a location in my profile in the "Location" box but it seems not to want to display, must be doing something wrong. For info though I am in Jersey in the Channel Islands. Edit - sorted it.


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## dsquire (Sep 1, 2011)

Pascal and ChrisB

Thanks very much guys for adding your locations to your profiles. It makes it very easy for other members to tell at a glance where you are from. A karma point for each of you. :bow:

Cheers 

Don


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## Richard1 (Sep 2, 2011)

I'd like to be part of European team build. Do we have any ideas for what engine to build yet?

Richard


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## pcw (Sep 4, 2011)

no not realy yet. i am checking if there is enough interest for it. going in right direction slowly 
i am open for ideas for which engine to build 
pascal


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## Tin Falcon (Sep 4, 2011)

http://m_kilde.skysite.dk/?side=49582
Here is at least one option the plan sets are $ 5.00 us each but 20 pages and well done.
Tin


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## Richard1 (Sep 5, 2011)

I've wondered about the Cygnet Royal which is a design by Edgar T Westbury for a 3 cylinder single acting radial with a single orbital valve. Nice engine, you can get the plans or kits from Hemingway 
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/The_Cygnet_Royal___Edgar_T_Westbury.html#aCygnet. 
They use castings for the crankcase where it was originally designed as hex bar. I have the original model engineer articles and I think I have this engine fully drawn up in CAD. Away from home now so can't check but will in the next week or so when I get home.

Richard


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## Blogwitch (Sep 5, 2011)

Have a look at Stews offering, basically the same as the Cygnet, but without the castings or the plans mistakes.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2317.0


John


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## Richard1 (Sep 6, 2011)

I like it. 

I don't remember any mistakes in the plans for the Cygnet Royal and I am pretty sure I put it on CAD. I might have just fixed them and not remembered or maybe the original Model Engineer plans I worked on are different to the ones currently available. In any case Stews offering is a beautiful piece of work.

Richard


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## Blogwitch (Sep 6, 2011)

Richard,

I made the Cygnet from castings and original plans a while back, in fact the one shown on the Hemingways site is the actual one I built.

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/The_Cygnet_Royal___Edgar_T_Westbury.html

The green one at the top. But that doesn't show the special fwds/rev valve that I made for it. The engine is only designed to run in one direction, but it will run in reverse by switching over the ports, but not quite as smooth or powerful as forwards. Picture at the bottom.

There were problems around the crank and con rod areas.

When made correctly they really are a very nice engine to run.


John


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## Richard1 (Sep 6, 2011)

I'll have a good look at this when I get home. I am 10,000 miles from my computer and CAD files at present. Do you remember what the problem was?

Your model looks very nice. I must build one of these either as a team build or by my self. It just looks so nice.

Richard


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## Blogwitch (Sep 7, 2011)

Richard,

I don't want to hijack the post any more, but it is a little difficult to remember the exact details, but I am sure it was to do with where all the rod ends meet on the crank pin.

Stew's version, makes everything a lot easier to make and is correct.


John


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## Richard1 (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks, will have a look at it and another look at Stew's. One day I am going to build that. I won't make it reversible like yours though.


Richard


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## ChrisB (Sep 7, 2011)

Great to have you back Bogs, hope everything is OK with you.

Perhaps a good way to Start would be to find and list interested parties with equipment available and experience, this gives us a better idea of what the group would be able & willing to build before we get carried away with something too complex / big.

Might be an idea to edit the first post with details so we have an easy way to see what is going on?

So to start:
Interested: Yes
Experience: Limited - but willing to give anything a good go. You don't learn by hiding from it!
Equipment: Large lathe and Mill, small rotab plus the usual tooling etc.

I will not be online much for the next couple of weeks, but am interested in seeing if this can get off the ground so will check in as and when I can.

Cheers


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## SBWHART (Sep 7, 2011)

If you do decide to build the radial, the guys over the pond are doing a team build on it as well:- bin shaking down the drawings with them one or two anomalies, but I can pass these along to you guys.

And I would be pleased to help but not take part in the actual build itselve.

Stew


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## pcw (Sep 7, 2011)

i already partucipate in the radial team build. 

for this one i was thinking a simpler engine. in the other one im stuck to making wooden bases and brass plates and screws. i only have small lathe, not completetly done with the overhaul of it and thus limited in what i can fabricate atm.

love the ideas you guys put up, but that will be over my head for now fabrication wise. maybe a wobler? :-[ :-[
Pascal


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## Blogwitch (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks for the welcome back Chris. The answer is no, but just about coping, hence lack of major posting.

Just as a bit of interest about this engine (and I expect Stews version will be exactly the same). 

If you wanted to make a pair, that run in the opposite directions to each other, it is only a slight modification to one very small component that makes the engine reverse, just a slight change when you set the part up in the 4 jaw. DAMHIK.

BTW, mine ran great on 30 psi of live steam, but it does take a while for the engine to warm up. It eventually ended up in a live steam model boat after I passed it on.


John


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## Richard1 (Sep 8, 2011)

I'd be happy with a simple wobbler if that is what others want to build. I have a reasonably equipped workshop so can cope with most things.

Richard


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## ChrisB (Sep 26, 2011)

Right,

Back from the hols so ready to get back on track again, lathe being repaired this week so should be ready to start doing some work soon ;D

Wobble is fine with me, does anyone have any preferences as to what wobbler? As this is a european build I am assuming we are looking for metric plans. Or at least converted plans.

I have just completed the EJS Wobbler, thats nice and easy to build.


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## pcw (Sep 26, 2011)

my mini lathe is still not in working order. the main shaft isnt straight  friend of mine is will be making a new one for me, but since he is busy with his own shop it can take a bit. he already made me some new trapezium thread rods and nuts to get rid of most of the backlash. (cnc conversion is in planning) 
pascal


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## diegolopez (Sep 28, 2011)

Hello from Spain.

In this moment i am setting up the workshop but i am interested to be part of the European Team.


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## Thegsey (Aug 6, 2012)

Hello,

Has this project got off the ground yet? I would be very keen to join in. I have milling and lathe capabilities all ready to go and just about know what to do with them. I'd be interested in whatever project really but I would have thought keeping it simple will be the best way to get a result.

Cheers,

Mike


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## skyline1 (Aug 6, 2012)

Hi Chaps 

I'm Mark and I'm in the south of England 

I would love to join the team. 
In my little workshop I have and elderly but usable Myford ML7 lathe, A reasonably accurate pillar drill and all the usual hand tools and measuring gear
I also have silver soldering and brazing gear, A forge and I was running my own little foundry which could be recommisioned if the need arose so I could
make simple castings for us.

I am A fairly experienced Model Engineer with a passion for steam turbines in particular. I have also built two or three Oscillating engines, wobblers as they tend to be called here. I tend to build my models using jigs and fixtures a lot so mass producing several of the same component would be no problem in fact I've just done so. The new switchboard on my steam turbo generator needed about 15 indentical copper switch components so I made jigs and just production lined them.

Regards Mark


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## Bastelmike (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi All in Europe,
I am Mike from Germany and pretty new to this site. A lot of interesting stuff here, worth to read and look at. Especially the download section with its dozens of designs!

The idea of an European team built is attractive, I must admit that. Though I don't think I am yet ready to join one. Just because there are for me still a lot of issues with it.

1. Size of engine to built
I am not really a model builder yet, because my projects have been 1:1 scale mostly until today. So my shop isn't really suitable for miniature parts; with second-hand industrial machinery. Making a large team built would be very expensive for raw material and freight rates to ship parts. Doing it in a small scale would be cheaper; but I'm not well equipped for tiny parts.

2. Engine design to choose
There are several nice looking engines in th downloads. But here too, several problems are obvious for me.
The quality standard of the drawings isn't always up to industrial standards, enhancing the difficulties in parts manufacturing. Taking a closer look to a few designs I also discovered several errors in drawing sets leading to spoiled parts.
Most designs are imperial. I think my homeshop is well equipped with drill bits, reamers, taps etc., but I wouldn't have the tools to do these imperial designs. And buying imperial tools in Germany is usually very expensive because there aren't many suppliers with imperial stuff. Same applies for raw materials in imperial sizes. Therefore I wouldn't want to build an imperial design

3. Number of builders in a team
IMO that the number shouldn't be very large. While a larger number would make it possible to build a more elaborated design, it would also mean that everyone has to produce a large number of identical parts. As very few home shop owners have automatic (CNC) machines for large production runs, doing more than 8 or 10 identical parts is something where the fun ends and it becomes simply a unbeloved work to be done.
Thats a reason why I would hesitate to join a team built with 10 or more members, resulting in the need to do a dozen or more of the same parts. 

4. Sharing of costs for Materials
To my understanding, everyone in the team has to buy the materials needed for his parts himself. This approach isn't always fair. :wall:
People, who supply large parts or parts from expensive materials like, let's say gunmetal or bronze, are at a severe disadvantage.
So Job allocation has to take both material and labor requirements into account.

Think much depends on choosing a competent team captain for a build !
So these are just my personals reasons why I don't want to join now - my attitude might change in the future

Mike


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## rsendys (Sep 12, 2012)

Good idea, I'm willing to join the European team
Robert


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