# First IC engine suggestions



## weez (Dec 1, 2013)

As I am getting close to finishing my sixth steam engine, I am thinking my next engine will be an internal combustion engine.  I am thinking of building either the Webster or Jan Ridders Simple 2-Stroke.  I am leaning towards the 2-stroke figuring that it may be easier as there are no valves.  Any suggestions on the best first IC engine, one of these two or any others?


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## Philjoe5 (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi Weez,
I've been watching your Elmer's Geared #5 build and I'm sure you would have no problems making valves or any other parts of an IC engine.

The Webster, Upshur and a number of other IC engines have bores less than 1".  I am told, the smaller the bore the bigger the challenge.  For that reason I went with an Australian design, the Bonzer, for my first IC engine since it has a bore near 1 1/4".  Plans are available from AussieJimG, a member here.  Only caveat, plans are metric but I haven't found that to be a problem.

Good luck with whatever you choose and I hope you'll post progress

Cheers,
Phil


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## Cogsy (Dec 2, 2013)

As a first I.C. and only my second ever engine (first was a Jan Ridders flamelicker), I went with an Upshur farm engine. It wasn't a difficult build, even with my limited abilities, and I'd recommend it to anyone. 

I'm also currently building Brian Rupnow's hit and miss engine. It's a bit more difficult than the Upshur and has forced me to learn some new techniques, but I'd still recommend it as a first I.C. for someone with your machining abilities and I'm sure you'd have no trouble with it at all.

Soon I plan on making my very first functioning steam engine...


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## weez (Dec 3, 2013)

Philjoe, thanks for the suggestion of the Bonzer but it looks like it may be too large for my machines.

Cogsy, I have checked out a few Upshur builds on the forum and am thinking that I may go with the farm engine.  I saw the video of yours running and it seems to run very well.  Did you get it running on hit and miss yet?  What steam engine are you planning to build?


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## cwelkie (Dec 3, 2013)

If I can do it - you can do it ... a Webster that is.  Any number of them have been built (close to) the drawings and they seem to be straightforward to get running.  It's a get one for being built out of "odds 'n' sods".
Which ever way you go - have fun!
Charlie


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## stevehuckss396 (Dec 3, 2013)

Hello Weez!

Have you looked at the Rupnow engine. It's a single cylinder and the whole build was done on the forum so there is a good resource if you have questions.


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## Cogsy (Dec 4, 2013)

weez said:


> Did you get it running on hit and miss yet? What steam engine are you planning to build?


 
I haven't got it in hit and miss mode yet, I've completely abandoned it until I finish the Rupnow engine. I did try to manually operate it in hit and miss but I think it needs a fuel check valve to keep the fuel at the carby. Fortunately, Brian's design for his Rupnow engine works beautifully and I'll make one up for the Upshur as well eventually.

As for the steam engine, I want to build the little mini 'tea-light' wobbler but with a alchohol burner instead of the candle. I love the idea of a self contained desk top engine that can be running from cold in 60 seconds or so and doesn't need a compressor.


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## weez (Jan 11, 2014)

I think I have my choices down to either an Upshur Farm Engine or the Kerzel Hit and Miss.  I have looked over the Kerzel plans and they look pretty good.  I have not purchased the Upshur plans so I cannot compare the two.  I am wondering if anyone has any insight on either of these two engines.  Is it worth buying the Upshur plans or should I just go with the Kerzel?  Any input on either engine would be much appreciated.


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## stevehuckss396 (Jan 11, 2014)

weez said:


> I think I have my choices down to either an Upshur Farm Engine or the Kerzel Hit and Miss.  I have looked over the Kerzel plans and they look pretty good.  I have not purchased the Upshur plans so I cannot compare the two.  I am wondering if anyone has any insight on either of these two engines.  Is it worth buying the Upshur plans or should I just go with the Kerzel?  Any input on either engine would be much appreciated.



If you decide on the Kerzel engine there is a build thread by Brian Rupnow. He did a great job documenting the build so you will have a reference to go to if you get stuck.


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## Ogaryd (Jan 11, 2014)

Hi Weez, My first IC engine was the Kerzel and still one of my favorite engines. The prints are great. I also learned to cut my first gears, spoke flywheel and sparkplug. The motor runs cool without coolant for hours, starts first flick of the flywheel. Gary


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## weez (Jan 12, 2014)

stevehuckss396 said:


> If you decide on the Kerzel engine there is a build thread by Brian Rupnow. He did a great job documenting the build so you will have a reference to go to if you get stuck.



Thanks Steve.  I have already read all of Brian's Kerzel thread.  It is where I learned of the Kerzel.  I agree that he did a great job documenting the build, as usual for Brian.


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## weez (Jan 12, 2014)

Ogaryd said:


> Hi Weez, My first IC engine was the Kerzel and still one of my favorite engines. The prints are great. I also learned to cut my first gears, spoke flywheel and sparkplug. The motor runs cool without coolant for hours, starts first flick of the flywheel. Gary



Ogaryd,

Glad to here that your Kerel turned out well.  Do you have any pictures or video of it?  The only one I have been able to find here is Brian Rupnow's.

Did you make cast iron piston rings, or did you use an o-ring?

This engine build will also contain many firsts for me, hopefully ending in my first running IC engine.


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## Ogaryd (Jan 13, 2014)

Weez, The cylinder was sleeved with CI lapped to glass smooth finish, piston aluminum with 1 Oring made of silicone. I found quite a difference in Oring materials. From my experience the Oring works best if it barely touches the cylinder, Always remember to reduce friction anywhere you can when building model engines without sacrificing fit. I'm sure the Kerzel would run fine with rings or hand lapped iron piston to iron cylinder. I will try to post some pictures in the next few days, Posting pictures is definitely not my expertise, My avatar on the other engine site is the Kerzel. Good luck with your new project. Gary


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## weez (Jan 13, 2014)

Ogaryd, Thanks for the info.


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