# Power Feed.



## gus (Nov 30, 2014)

*DIY SANDER*
Sander done with a few instrument casing done and sander fine tuned.Gus now not too bad a carpenter with mitred corner joints.

*POWER FEED FOR MINI MILL*

Been drooling at a ''Made in Taiwan'' Power Feed for years but nobody makes one of these small enough to fit my Sakai Mini Mills. Power feed cost $300 from Sieg and $600 from Vertex. ''71'' young man not too happy to hand crank feed to mill long pieces.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 1, 2014)

Greetings Gus! I'm in the same difficulty as you about this particular machine. Frankly, there has been so much in the way of bad reports and requests for repair information that I am keeping away from wasting my money. Probably the cheapest way to twiddle nobs is by usuing a scrap windscreen or rear screen wipe motor with a rheostat.

Again, there is a lot of write up on using a scrap battery drill motor- where the battery has failed. 

Clearly, these are my conclusions but others may differ. If I knew more about stepper motors- and boy oh, boy do these people wander off topic- may be the way to go. 




My thoughts but they do come from extensive reading up.


Cheers

Norman


----------



## bazmak (Dec 1, 2014)

I am also looking at power feed.Only one i can find local to fit the 400lg table
for the sieg,can you let me have any info you have regards spec,price,supplier etc.Regards barry


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 1, 2014)

For info, I Googled Align Power Feed problems.  Enough to put my wallet spanner back into the safe deposit.

Cheers

N


----------



## gus (Dec 1, 2014)

No worries. Will be as simple as the Sander. The DIY Power Feed will some how look nearly like the M,I,T. step brother. Some months back bought the 60 rpm step down d.c. motor and electronic speed controller. Will be fun.
Been surfing the threads on DIY Mill Table Power Feed. Mine will deviate from the trend. The Control Panel will have speed control and forward/off/reverse functions. Plan to make a test model with on/clutch so as to retain manual cranking before moving on to maul/wreck the expensive Japanese Sakai Mini Mill.


----------



## bazmak (Dec 1, 2014)

All too complicated for me Gus i would rather spend money and buy off the shelf.Too many other projects Regards Barry


----------



## SmithDoor (Dec 1, 2014)

I saw post some where using a cordless drill motor and a belt drive it look good and simple to make and better very low cost. I have one on bench mill but it cost more than the mill did. 

 Dave



bazmak said:


> All too complicated for me Gus i would rather spend money and buy off the shelf.Too many other projects Regards Barry


----------



## RonGinger (Dec 1, 2014)

I just completed a power feed for the Z axis of my Grizzly G0704 mill. I decided to use a stepper motor and an arduino to run it. One neat feature is that I have electronic limit switches- I can run the Z down to a point, press the limit button and the control will remember that point. If I go back up, to change a tool, or clear chips, I can just press the down button and it will stop at the limit position.

I have a pot to set the speed so I can use it in a feed rate move, or a rapid move.

I have not posted anything about it because I was going to write it up as an article for DIGITAL MACHINIST magazine. I want to make a PC board for the buttons, as an arduino shield, but I have been unable to get any of the PCB software to work for me. If anyone is good with one of the PCB programs that would like to help me maybe we could make up a PCB and get a batch built. Send me a PM if you would like to help.


----------



## Lathejack (Dec 1, 2014)

Hello. 

I am surprised that there appears to be plenty of problems with the Align type power feed units, I will have to google it myself and take a look.

I bought and fitted a new 'Vertex Align Super Power' unit over twelve years ago, Taiwanese made I think, and it is mounted on my Taiwanese made VMC mill. Most of the ones on offer since then appear to be made in China.

It has been totally trouble free, although it is used in my home workshop and not in an industrial environment.

At work we have a Bridgeport mill and this was originally fitted with the genuine Bridgeport feed unit from which the Align type units are copied. This original power feed packed up four or five years ago and was replaced with one of the Far Eastern copies identical to the one pictured in the above post. 

This one is used in an industrial environment and has also given trouble free service with regular change of direction and rapid feed use.

One of the machine shop men did make a complete mess of fitting it initially however, getting lots of swarf in the bevel gears. He must have tipped the well packaged and spotlessly clean components on the floor to get them in such a mess, luckily I spotted what he had done straightaway and it was all corrected.

The two units that I have fitted were extremely well made, and they come with a spare Zytel main helical gear in the bottom cover.

As well as cleanliness during assembly it is also important to first eliminate any end float of the feedscrew relative to the table, often overlooked. If this is not done then, because of the way they are mounted, the carefully adjusted meshing of the bronze and steel bevel drive gears constantly alters as the table direction changes from left to right, which can lead to too tight and too slack meshing. All required shims for this adjustment of the gears, and for the adjustment of the handwheel dial are included.

I wonder if most of the problems are electrical, I better take a look. Anyway, I quite like em.


----------



## gus (Dec 2, 2014)

Way back in the 90s, my BridgePort came fitted with Power Feed,Heidenhahn DRO and worked very well. Just cannot recall the Make. Bridgeport, 2 Leblondes, 1 OkaMoto Grinder etc gone to the rag and bone man when plant closed 2001.
Time to moved on.
Work starts tomorrow on DIY Power Feed. Will use a Lever Drag Clutch to engage feed travel.
Thanks for contributing to my thread.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 2, 2014)

Very sensible Gus! Planning for power and still manual feeds makes for sound  practice.

Look forward to your work and success

Norman


----------



## Brian40 (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi  Gus.
 You may find something useful info in a PDF on my web site ( Power feed for a mini mill) in the mill mods page. see link at bottom of page.
  feel free to down load it  Brian.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 2, 2014)

Brian,
          I hope Gus will forgive me but perhaps I can add something to your sine bar  idea.
Morse tapers have always bugged most of us.  One of my white water kayak and sailing mates( in the days of yore)sent me a mod that he and his son had fabricated to attach to the Myford ML7 which he- kept under the bed.

It was utilising a 10" bar as the sine and if he disconnected the saddle feed screw to slide on the round bar and set it off by 1/4" one got( near as dammit) a No2 MT. 

OK, Gus? 

Norman


----------



## gus (Dec 3, 2014)

Been working.  Surprisingly, done a pretty lot of work today.
DIY Worm Wheel, adapter shaft and mounting bracket done. Will figure out the rest tomorrow. No drawings. Just some comic sketches.
Did not count the number of teeth on the worm wheel. Reckon I get away speeding up D.C. motor to get the desired feed.
Other than the purchased 60 rpm d.c. motor and speed control,the rest came from scrap bin. Gus's cheap/expensive labour not costed in.


----------



## gus (Dec 5, 2014)

Gear box done except for the cover up. Using Shimano Fishing Reel Technology for engaging/dis-engaging power feed with Star-Drag Clutch. Powered dry spin proved system works.Will be next week to install and test power feed on mill.Suspect feed will be bit slow but for now will do. Gear Box size seems just good for mini mill.
Its weekend fissssssshing.


----------



## chucketn (Dec 5, 2014)

Good luck fishing, Gus.
When you get back, how about more detail on the Shimano Star Drag, please?

Chuck


----------



## gus (Dec 8, 2014)

Power Feed Gear Box done. Will drill and tap into mill table to mount Power Feed and hopefully a trial run with the Electronic Speed Controller tomorrow. Control Box housing has yet to imagined and dream of. Will play by ear. Forward--Off----Advance control will be put in.
Will try to cover up the ugly wires stick out from d.c. motor. For now its 100 rpm good for very slow table travel for fly-cutting on mini mill. Now looking at 200/300 rpm motor for faster feed. 
Power Feed is about ideal size to match Mini Mill and Table.


----------



## SmithDoor (Dec 8, 2014)

Looks great
 Like how you made the worm gear

 Dave

 th_wav





gus said:


> Power Feed Gear Box done. Will drill and tap into mill table to mount Power Feed and hopefully a trial run with the Electronic Speed Controller tomorrow. Control Box housing has yet to imagined and dream of. Will play by ear. Forward--Off----Advance control will be put in.
> Will try to cover up the ugly wires stick out from d.c. motor. For now its 100 rpm good for very slow table travel for fly-cutting on mini mill. Now looking at 200/300 rpm motor for faster feed.
> Power Feed is about ideal size to match Mini Mill and Table.


----------



## gus (Dec 8, 2014)

No big deal or trade secret. The worm thread was cut with M12 x 1.5 Die but it went slightly of centre but still usable. If it gets to be irritating, will make replacement. Wheel and worm was bit too close meshing.Ran in and lap with 800 grit compound. Now very smooth and easy to turn worm.
Today will drill and mount Power Feed and run table feed and take a mill cut too.


----------



## chucketn (Dec 8, 2014)

gus said:


> Using Shimano Fishing Reel Technology for engaging/dis-engaging power feed with Star-Drag Clutch.


 
I hope you will post some details of the Shimano Technology and how you will apply it.

Chuck


----------



## gus (Dec 9, 2014)

chucketn said:


> I hope you will post some details of the Shimano Technology and how you will apply it.
> 
> Chuck



Gus is still trying to get TurboCad going but to no avail.
Here is my hand drawn sketch.
The worm wheel drives the shaft when the Knob is tightened. When loose the worm wheel spins free. The thrust bearing helps keep friction low when clutch not engaged. Bit of Shimano Drag Grease helps improve clutch drive power.

Power Feed mounted on,fit and adjustment,alignment done and with clutch off, hand feed had no added resistance. Energised d.c. motor and travel was quite smooth. Will DIY Control Box and wire up.

With 100 rpm D.C. motor, the feed is just good for fly-cutting which is done at very low feed speed for good finish. Just placed order for 300 rpm motor to speed up power feed for 4-----12 mm End Milling. Material and parts cost adds up to $50 which is 1/4 of Sieg Power Feed  price. Will be another week or two of tinkering before completion.


----------



## chucketn (Dec 9, 2014)

Thanks, Gus.

Chuck


----------



## Swifty (Dec 9, 2014)

Gus, I see that you are using oiled cardboard for the clutch, have you thought of using cork instead. It's readily available as cork floor tiles that are not very thick.

Paul.


----------



## gus (Dec 10, 2014)

Swifty said:


> Gus, I see that you are using oiled cardboard for the clutch, have you thought of using cork instead. It's readily available as cork floor tiles that are not very thick.
> 
> Paul.




Hi Paul ,
Cork sheet is best as clutch medium but hard to find. Recalled this was used with the Matchless/Norton,Triumph,BSA Army surplus motorbikes just after WW-ll. The folder file cardboard with the Shimano Drag Grease should work hopefully.

Drag Clutch Knob done. Control Box done. Drill the 1mm thick panel was a bit dicy. Had it firmly clamped and step drills used avoid grabbing/snatching.Holes dead centre and no tear.Step drills came from Bunnings,Thornleigh,Sydney.

Will wire up tomorrow and live run milling aluminium. My DIY Fly-Cutter has gone AWOL.
For now the Power Feed location seems ideal as Gus does take a seat when using slow feed for finishing. Will decide tomorrow.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 10, 2014)

Can I step in and intrude, please?

Cork? Well, there is cork and cork. Trust me, I made a rather lot of pennies from 'Cork' and its accesories. Long time ago but not forgotten.

Your first source is the classic stopper from a bottle. OK, the wine industry is now using all sorts of compounds but the Champagne industry in Reims in France still uses vast quantities. Nice grand piano shop next door to one cork manufacturer. Was there in September- I get around!
The next obvious choice is good old Armstrong Cork Co, 9th Avenue, TVTE Gateshead, next to the family castle- which fell down. American firm, I did the accoustic tile thing and rubber grinding thing but they used to make vinyl flooring. Half of Germany is floored with Accotile and Accoflex!
Of course cork is from the cork oak and the swarf( well?) is recyled as sheets and ends up as sheet again. For a few pennies, every child's paper blackboard thing with drawing pins  is chewed up cork.

And then there are Whisky corks- used to be Metal Box co. Made them in Newcastle. I used to do research in negative torroidal seams in tin plate. 
So there you are. Solder 'horses' and all sorts of things. All very simple- no money in it but- interesting. Still got my slide rule

Norman


----------



## gus (Dec 10, 2014)

Hi Norman,

I spent 3 1/2 years operating & set up slitting machines and the can body makers in Metal Box,Singapore. My left ear is half deaf. 
On a very hot day,I had 360 cans per minute flying in front of me but no beer. 7Up and CocaCola cans too.PineApple Cans and Milk Cans too. 
That was 1965-----1968. Gus was doing his HND Engineering Part Time.

Crown Cork bought Metal Box in Singapore 30 years ago.


----------



## goldstar31 (Dec 10, 2014)

Gus

Small world! Apart from anything else I did HNC Business Studies, A Levels in Heaven knows what and City and Guilds Motor Vehicle Restoration, Accountancy and -well, a lot. Sailing instructor, boat builder, canoed and skied for Good Old Great Britain. 

Metal Box- that was Baker Street in London. Was down at Acton and agree with the NOISE! Bill Thompson or William Desmond Thompson RNVR was buyer at Newcastle and we used to canoe camp and whatever. Bill went to India with TMB- probably dead now. Was in the Royal Navy during the War.

Newcastle factory is no longer there- went to Carlisle. I go past it on the way to the Mason's. Oriental Lodge and Chapter. I get about. 

Cheers


Norman


----------



## gus (Dec 10, 2014)

Hi Norman,

In those days,it was high tech. Never mind about bringing over ancient Troyer & Fox Canbody Making Machine. Metal Box,Singapore was creaming the market. Canners had to cough up 50% downpayment with order and balance C.O.D. days before delivery basis Cheque did not bounce. 

The food canners had to put up with MB. Then a German Can Making Expert arrived in Singapore and sold some can making lines. The Germans make very good and advance and stable machines. The MB machines were prone to breakdown. Quite a few of my mates went over with higher pay. It is history now.

Metal Box paid for my HND part time study course.However after getting my HND there was no job offer . Ingersoll-Rand took poor Gus off the street.


----------



## gb16714 (Dec 10, 2014)

possibly a detent clutch mech. on the motor shaft adjustable for torque output to stop crash?


----------



## gus (Dec 11, 2014)

The Shimano Star Drag has three carbon washers to enable 1/4 ----2/3 line tension power so as to permit fish to spool some lines with fish still hooked on. The non-reversible bearing prevent shaft from spinning forward.
Reel/spool will only release line when line tension exceeds tension setting.

I used the drag clutch to drive worm wheel and power take off. See my sketch. Star Drag Clutch System performed to expectation today.Just found a source for corksheet.

The Fishing Members of HMEM will have a good idea of the Star Drag. See foto of my Shimano Cardiff BaitCaster.


----------



## gus (Dec 11, 2014)

Disaster. One terminal lug broke off. Lesson learnt. Use lighter cable.

Happy Ending but expensive replacement and the motor output speed at 250 rpm gave the mill table good feed rate. Brand new robotic d.c. geared motor c/w rotary encoder cost me S$55.00. Looks like live trial end milling will happen tomorrow by 10am. Feed rate will be good for fly-cutting and end milling.

Labelling the ''Forward----Off-----Reverse'' for same selector switch and ''Low---High'' for Speed Control will be another chore and challenge.Free Hand letter stamping is not preferred so some form of jig required so that stamped letter will not look like Jingle Bell. Labels will be brass strip polished and lacquered.


----------



## gus (Dec 11, 2014)

Plain/Smooth Clutch Knob w/o knurling is very slippery and hard to get hand hold. Plan to use round nose mill to cut shallow grooves to improve grip. My humble apologies for the felt pen sketch. New resolution for 2015 will be competency with TurboCad or CAD.


----------



## ShopShoe (Dec 11, 2014)

Gus,

No need for apology for pen sketches. We can understand what you mean and that's all we need. CAD is great, but the knowledge is the important part.

I have been wondering if in your climate and on your balcony you need to take extra steps to protect your electronics from corrosion and high humidity. I don't have the same concerns in my location, but when machines are cold and air is damp in fall and spring then I am worrying about rust all the time, and corrosion of electrics in old cars not being driven. Needless to say, I buy WD40 in bulk.

--ShopShoe


----------



## gus (Dec 12, 2014)

Hi ShopShoe.
Fortunately  not too much rust. The only electronics I have are  the the Digital Calipers and Mikes. The DRO is DIYed with Digital Caliper. The balcony have a large roof covering 5 ft beyond and keeps out the bigger rain drops. A bit of fine mist gets in but not damaging.


----------



## gus (Dec 12, 2014)

Had to do something about the exposed terminal connections on the d.c. motor.Recycled the front end of a scrap motor and it works fine. 
Did a live trial test. Slide table feed screw gets 5 turns per min. Fine for finishing cuts. The 250 rpm D.C. Motor came from a Robotics PArts Shop and the power was more than sufficient. With Tapmatic Cutting Fluid applied, a very fine finishing appeared.
Will take my sweet time next week to finish up Power Feed and call it a day.


----------



## Philjoe5 (Dec 13, 2014)

Nice work Gus.  Thanks for posting

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## Niels Abildgaard (Dec 13, 2014)

Hello Gus

Dont You think Your lathe will be a better machine with electric feed ?


----------



## Swifty (Dec 13, 2014)

Gus, I saw the video on facebook, works great.

Paul.


----------



## MCRIPPPer (Dec 14, 2014)

good luck on your power feed. i spent many hours building one for my X2 mill. much more enjoyable to use! 

i used a dog clutch mechanism to engage and disengage the gearbox so i dont have to fight the gears when manual feeding. your clutch system is brilliant. reminds me of old lathes with power feed knob. i wish mine was able to do smooth engagement. 

for wiring you can buy flexible conduit to run the electrical. i bought some from littlemachineshop that matches the x2 mill.


----------



## gus (Dec 14, 2014)

Niels Abildgaard said:


> Hello Gus
> 
> Dont You think Your lathe will be a better machine with electric feed ?



Been thinking about it. Will be very fine and smooth feed finish.


----------



## MCRIPPPer (Dec 14, 2014)

how about "electronic leadscrew".


----------



## Niels Abildgaard (Dec 15, 2014)

MCRIPPPer said:


> how about "electronic leadscrew".


I have problems enough using my mobile phone,so an electronic leadscrew will bring no joy.
It is not a big job done often to manage the geartrain for screwcutting .
The possibility to change  feed rate and revs during cut will be loading my simultaneous capacity  and be nice to listen to with fresh batteries in hearing aid.


----------



## gus (Dec 15, 2014)

Labelling the Forward/Reverse Switch and Speed Pot. was quite fun. Dymo Label not preferred as they get smudged. Went to letter stamping on aluminium strips.After 4 days I managed to get some respectable labels stuck on. Nailing on not good looking and hard to align. Contact Glue is messy. Went over to double sided tape. Foto 1 not happy. Foto 2 OK for now.
DIY cutting aluminium blanks was another exercise done umptheen times to get best looking blank. A permanent stop/guide had to be made for the DIY Makita BandSaw to get very parallel strips to cut blanks. Blanks had to be hand finished so that stamped labels looked good.:wall:

Will take a lot of practice to make good labels.


----------

