# Layout Work



## Bernd (Jan 25, 2008)

Here's an easy way to do layout work on small pieces. I'm no expert by any means. I hope to give the newbie an idea of how it's done. Comments welcome both constructive  and destructive.  

Here is some of the tooling required:
An angle plate
A block to raise the part up for easier marking. I'm using a 1-2-3 block
6 inch scale
A scriber (I don't know what the technical term for this tool is)







Next place the part your going to mark on the block along with the scale and set the sharp pointer to the correct setting. In this case it's 0.500" inch.






Next draw the sharp point across part to scribe the line.






Here are the two bases for Elmer Verburg's Wobbler almost all marked.






Here's an alternative to not having an angle plate. Since 1-2-3 blocks come in sets, you can use the two to create your own angle block.






Once all the intersections of the holes are marked it's time to "center" punch the holes. In the picture below are three punches. The top is an automatic prick punch, next is one you need to tap with a hammer, and the third is a home made "center" punch. The difference between a "prick" punch and a "center" punch is in the point. The "prick" punch has a very sharp point so you can feel the point "drop" into the cross lines you have scribed. A "center" punch, which has 60 degree point, is then used in the "prick" punch hole to enlarge the dimple formed by the "prick" punch making it easier to center drill. In other words the large punched dimple will keep the center drill from wandering off the scribed line.






In the next picture I'm using the automatic prick punch to mark all the cross scribed location. Then I'll use the center punch to enlarge the dimples. The automatic punch works by pressing down on the top. When pressed down a spring is compressed to a certain point. The spring then pushes a plunger down hitting the top of the tip and a dimple is formed. It's kind of hard to explain it's action so think of it as having a hammer in side the hits the punch for you when you press down on it.






And here is what it'll look like. Not very impressive it's it? ??? But you get the drift? (pun) :-\






Tat Da. The finished base plates all center punched ready to be center drilled and drilled. ;D






Hope this will help a beginner who is a bit complexed as to how one can layout a small part as accurate as possible with some simple tools. The same will work for larger pieces. You'll only need some bigger tools.

Bernd


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## Kactiguy (Jan 25, 2008)

This is super helpful. Simple thing, but it is something I've never been taught. Thanks for the tip.


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## mklotz (Jan 25, 2008)

Bernd,

A very nice tutorial, indeed.

For future reference, the "scriber" is known as a surface gage. 

You might want to say a few words about the need for a flat surface on which to do the marking out. Normally, a machinist would use a surface plate - a large chunk of granite with a dead flat surface. It's not something the newcomer will have nor does he need to buy one until deeper into the hobby. A flat plate of glass, properly supported, works well. Even better is the table of a table saw or the milling machine table.

Marking out is an important skill to learn because there will always be jobs that demand that you do it this way. However, if you have a DRO on your mill, it's easier and more accurate to do this job via the DRO.


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## rake60 (Jan 25, 2008)

Very good information Bernd.

I layout everything I make at home.
I don't have DRO on my home machines, and sometimes I get a little
too far ahead of myself with the indicator readings.
I've missed a mark by .100" a time or two.
If it's marked, you'll see it before you make another unneeded paperweight.

Rick


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## BobWarfield (Jan 25, 2008)

mklotz  said:
			
		

> Bernd,
> 
> A very nice tutorial, indeed.
> 
> ...



I've got a DRO, and I love it, but I still mark things out. It's a double check on not getting confused and screwing things up. I prefer a digital height gage to the surface gage:






As you can see, I also write on everything: the workpiece, my hand, the Kurt Vise, my steno pads, you name it. LOL

With the digital gage, it is super fast to get things marked out or measured. If you needed even more precision, it is easy to replace the scribe with a DTI on the height gage.

Here's another cool trick if you have a DRO: You can use it in conjunction with you edge finder as a coordinate measuring machine. This is useful to reverse engineer things. For example, I have a part that I got somewhere and need to make a bracket to mount the part to. How do I pick up the hole centers and so on? Real easy with a DRO. Saw Widgitmaster do that when he built a turret for his lathe and loved the idea.

Cheers,

BW


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## mklotz (Jan 25, 2008)

I think that newcomers to the hobby should buy a height gage as soon as they can afford one. I have three (two dial and one digital) in my shop and use all three on a regular basis.

If you don't have the money for one right now, it's dead easy to make a base for an inexpensive HF digital calipers and use that as an improvised height gage. Here's an example of what I'm talking about from Norm, one of our club members.

http://www.schsm.com/html/norm_wells_5.html


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## Powder keg (Jan 25, 2008)

Some other helpful layout tools are a small set of dividers, a pair of inside and outside calipers and a set of hermorphidite (Spelling?) calipers are very useful. Here are my small ones. 





I also use a small Tap handle, for my model work. 

Wes


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## Bernd (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks guys. Just trying to do my part in teachin' the youg'uns what we know before we go to that great home machine shop in the sky. 

Marv,

Not to take away from the DRO, you have to remember that the beginner might not have the money to purchase on of those after buying a lathe or mill. ;D Also you need to start somewhere. All the years I've worked in a machine shop I don't own one of those, YET. :-\ I couldn't remember the name of the "surface gage" when I was posting this. Can you believe that. :

As far as my surface plate I've got some nice ones. It's just that one I'm showing in the picture was purchased many many years ago when I took a vacation trip to Vermont. I purchased that piece of marble with the intent of using it as a surface plate. Unfortunately it's a bit to soft, but serves the purpose for now. Also I don't have room for my other surface plate right now.

Below is a picture of the surface gages I own. The small claims to be a No. 454. That's all that's on it. I believe it's a Chinese rip off. The second tallest one is a genuine Starrett 454 gage. I did notice for the first time today that the smaller one is backwards from the real one. The taller one I acquired when I bought my Logan lathe. The guy throw it in for the price of the lathe. It's Chinese but a very nice piece of equipment. Just a bit to large for the small work I'm doing right now.






Here's my 14.5" X 18" cast iron surface plate. I got that from the place I used to work. They were going to throw it out. The wife snagged for me and I went and got it. It's all nice and scrapped level. ;D It's residing in the dark part of the basement right now.






Here's how I cut my aluminum and brass plate stock. I never cutting anything under .0625" thick. It's my Grizzley 10" cabinet saw with a rip blade. I use a ripping blade because it has chisel teeth instead of the alternate side cutting teeth a cross cut saw has. I know the teeth on this look aggressive but it does work fine. Why do I use a table saw? The cut is smoother for one thing and the cross cut sled I made helps cut the parts a lot squarer then on a bandsaw, which I also have two of. One for wood cutting and one for bar stock cutting. The piece of wood with the nails sticking out is a guard that I put over the top to keep the chicks from flying and hitting me. They hurt when they come flying. I used to wear a full face shield and a flannel shirt buttoned up all they way and gloves before using this guard. Now I only wear safety glasses. That's a piece of 1/4" thick stock I getting ready to cut into 1" wide by 2 1/4" long.





And here are the pieces on the right ready to go to the mill and be milled to the correct dimensions. The pieces here are for the frame of the Wobbler engine.






Now I need to get busy for the next bit of fun. Drilling all the holes in the parts I've cut out so far. I'll continue in the build section of the forum for that part of the engine build.

Regards,
Bernd


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