# Next Project



## mayhugh1 (Jun 12, 2022)

I'm looking for plans for a next build that would be comparable in complexity to the Inline Six, 270 Offy, Knucklehead, Merlin, and radials I've built, but I'm not having much luck. I own a set of castings and the documentation that came with them for the Black Widow V8, but I'd rather build an engine from billet.  I've spent the last month or so working on SolidWorks models for the components of a 1/3 scale Ford Hi-PO 289 V-8, but all I have to work from are undimensioned photos from old shop manuals and 60's era hotrod books. Although I'm making progress, its a tough slog, and I can see my enthusiasm dulling before I get to the point where I can actually start making chips. I have access to the German 'visible -V8' plastic model of the Ford V-8 sold by Amazon, but it's turned out to be a disappointment and only useful for top level sanity checks. Does anyone have any suggestions? - Terry


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## napoleonb (Jun 13, 2022)

Loving your work, this suggestion is not quite what you're asking for but in the larger scheme of things perhaps this type of IC engine is the one you're missing to complete all the other types of operating principles.


			OS-Graupner Wankel 29
		


I have a file on my pc with parts/drawings in 2d, 3d and photo's of a similair engine from a source I can't remember.


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## ShopShoe (Jun 13, 2022)

What engines are famous? How many were made for how many years?

What documentation is available?

Ford Flathead? Build a running metal model AND a "visible" model?

Other Modern Ford V-8s, as you've said?

Otherwise, search for obscure engines that are less well documented and not as popular. I'd like to see you build someting that's more than the engine alone, such as engine and transmission, or industrial engine running pump or generator? I say this with the realization that you have to keep up enthusiasm and momentum as you progress, so probably not your thing.

--ShopShoe


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## dnalot (Jun 13, 2022)

How about the Curtis V8


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## Vietti (Jun 13, 2022)

Buy a junker 289/302, measure, discard, sell??  Should be lots of em out there.

Amazingly over-square with a 4" bore!


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## Scott_M (Jun 13, 2022)

I have always wanted to see a Chrysler 426 Hemi done. I have seen a few people start but have not seen one finished.
Maybe with the crossram manifold.




My buddy has a couple of them if you needed any dimensions.

Scott


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## petertha (Jun 13, 2022)

How about a Liberty V12? American lineage (if that's a desirable). Historically significant, used in aviation, marine, tanks, post-war retrofits.... Maybe a bit more  domestic reference documentation available. Somewhat different valve train & CS assembly to what you've already mastered. One of the (many) challenges would be replicating what I assume were cast cylinder jackets for water cooling, but maybe could be functionally replicated with turned sleeves? I'm 99% sure I have the Amazon book sitting on shelf which I'd be happy to send you.





						History of the Liberty Engine: Neal, Robert J.: 9781580071499: Books - Amazon.ca
					

History of the Liberty Engine: Neal, Robert J.: 9781580071499: Books - Amazon.ca



					www.amazon.ca
				












						Liberty L-12 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





			Liberty Notes
		






						AAM - Engines - Liberty L-12
					






					www.wy2.org
				











						Liberty 12 Model A, V-12 Engine
					

Type: Reciprocating, 12 cylinders, V-type, Liquid-cooledPower rating: 298 kW (400 hp) at 1,800 rpmDisplacement: 27.0 L (1,648.92 cu in)Bore and Stroke: 127 mm (5 in.) x 178 mm (7 in.)Weight: 383 kg (844 lb)The Liberty engine was America's most important contribution to aeronautic




					airandspace.si.edu
				








						Free CAD Designs, Files & 3D Models | The GrabCAD Community Library
					

The GrabCAD Library offers millions of free CAD designs, CAD files, and 3D models. Join the GrabCAD Community today to gain access and download!




					grabcad.com
				








						THE LIBERTY AIRCRAFT ENGINE on JSTOR
					

J G Vincent, THE LIBERTY AIRCRAFT ENGINE, SAE Transactions, Vol. 14, PART I (1919), pp. 385-432




					www.jstor.org


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## Charles Lamont (Jun 14, 2022)

How about something steam powered?


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## propclock (Jun 14, 2022)

Just a personal favorite , a Jag DOHC 6 with 3 SU carbs, But Not much of a challenge for you. For a challenge how about a Wankel  I know I have seen someone attempt one but I have never seen  one run, But I may be wrong.
Another favorite is a Ducati with bevel drive you could even go desmo
if you are a in for a real challenge. Whatever it is I will follow.
I always enjoy following your builds Thank You very much!


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## Vietti (Jun 14, 2022)

Second the vote for a desmo Ducati, and it is Italian!  Single or twin.


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## danallen (Jun 14, 2022)

Probably not much of a challenge for you but how about a 4 or 6 cylinder horizontal opposed aircraft engine?


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## Eccentric (Jun 14, 2022)

If you are looking at V8s, how about one of George Britnell's, I don't know if he has plans available for both his Ford Flathead V-8 in 1/3 Scale and  the 1/3 scale Ford 302 V-8.   If you would like to make a 289, you might be able to use George's 302 plans if they exist.  The 302 was basically a stroked 289.


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## Basil (Jun 15, 2022)

There’s always the Napier Deltic.


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## rpf (Jun 16, 2022)

BRM V16 1500cc supercharged race car engine, half size would be OK, its almost a model anyway!!!


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## minh-thanh (Jun 16, 2022)

Maybe...a new challenge ....build a injector diesel engine .


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## Peter Twissell (Jun 17, 2022)

Perhaps, if you fancy something small from billet, I could suggest the Whittle Aero V8?
I have a drawings and materials kit from Hemingway, not yet started. I have modelled the engine in CAD and I'd be happy to share the data with anyone who has bought the drawings (not wanting to infringe on copyright).


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## vederstein (Jun 17, 2022)

Mayhugh:

With your skill, this suggestion would be cake, but perhaps IC engines are becoming to easy/common for you.  May I suggest a model of one of Watt's condensing steam engines, one with the sun-planet gearing.

The joy would be knowing that this engine works entirely based on the condensation of steam and not the pressure of steam.  It's actually an atmospheric engine.  The smaller the scale, the more precise the fits must be.

Another suggestion:  A multiple cylinder, high pressure, stirling engine not unlike Ford was experimenting with in the early 90's.

...Ved.


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## Drawfiler (Jun 18, 2022)

The Wankel engine had several problems, particularly with high oil consumption and sealing the piston with the chamber, most solutions involved high seal wear. These engines are made in small numbers in small sizes for military use.
Another project to consider is the Bentley 6 cylinder car engine, possibly supercharged, a beautiful design, I too am a fan of the Jag XK engine with all that Ali on show, I have a full sized car with one and it always attracts crowds at shows.
if steam is ok look at a water pumping engine, some of these are fascinating designs, I know of one in the uk where the pump shares the crank journals with the engine, 3 cylinder set up I think
Failing all those try a marine diesel?

peter


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## Basil (Jun 18, 2022)

Peter Twissell said:


> Perhaps, if you fancy something small from billet, I could suggest the Whittle Aero V8?
> I have a drawings and materials kit from Hemingway, not yet started. I have modelled the engine in CAD and I'd be happy to share the data with anyone who has bought the drawings (not wanting to infringe on copyright).


 That is a engine I am contemplating for my next project. Gorgeous little engine!


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## ranger (Jun 25, 2022)

Honda‘s 6 cylinder race motorcycle engine from the 60’s? 250cc or 297cc (for the 350cc class)


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## stevehuckss396 (Jun 25, 2022)

I was just curious with all the posts with suggestions, if anything has struck a nerve. Are you considering any of the suggestions? Is there something you have thought of on your own?

Not sure if it would be your cup of tea but I have for many years thought about the GM twin six. Gm made a 351 inch v6. For the fire engines and big trucks they made a v12 version. The block was cast as a 12 and then the v6 parts put on it. 4 v6 heads, valve covers, exhaust manifolds,  etc. Very unique. If I ever finish the 500 projects I have started I would like to do one in 1/5 scale.


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## Jan Dressler (Jun 26, 2022)

Interesting thread...

My spontaneous suggestions in the "British section" were mentioned already, the Napier Deltic and BRM V16. The "boat anchor" BRM H16 maybe...

Italy: Ducati Desmo, I didn't think of that, but very interesting... My ideas would have been the Alfa Romeo Tipo B straight 8, and of course the Ferrari Colombo V12.

Germany (of course, I come from there): The Auto Union V16 with its single cam, and horizontal pushrods to drive the exhaust valves (and, also very interesting, the triple overhead cam twin-supercharged V12) of the silver arrow era (I have a few drawings for these), and if Desmo is wanted, but a twin is too simple: 1954 Mercedes M196, straight 8, Desmo valvetrain, central camshaft drive and power takeoff, mechanical direct injection... 
Or a 1967 Porsche 771 8-cylinder boxer engine? Air cooled, 4 shaft driven (yes, by 4 individual shafts) overhead camshafts...

France: Since the Bugatti twin camshaft engines have already been beautifully made and presented here, the single camshaft, 3-valve Type 35 engine, a work of art. Again straight 8, N/A or supercharged. I work on this, but it has been in the works for the last ten years, and might take another few... So I could share some of my CAD data, based on original works drawings, for an 1:3 version (20 mm bore), if this data comes into "good hands".

USA: The Ardun hemi overhead valve conversion of the Ford flathead V8. 

Japan: Since Wankel engines were already mentioned, the ultimate screamer, the 4 rotor engine with variable length intake of the LeMans winning Mazda 787B. Or Hondas 1965 1500cc V12 engine for their Formula 1 car back then.


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## Peter Twissell (Jun 27, 2022)

How about the Moto Guzzi V8?
At 500cc and 44 x 41mm, it's almost a model engine in full size!
At half scale, the dimensions would be quite reasonable for modelling.


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## Eccentric (Jun 27, 2022)

Not a V8, but certainly would be a challenge:







I saw a full size replica running at Oshkosh Air Venture a few years back, pretty amazing.  The crank is stationary and the cylinders spin with the prop.


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## mayhugh1 (Jun 27, 2022)

stevehuckss396 said:


> I was just curious with all the posts with suggestions, if anything has struck a nerve. Are you considering any of the suggestions? Is there something you have thought of on your own?
> 
> Not sure if it would be your cup of tea but I have for many years thought about the GM twin six. Gm made a 351 inch v6. For the fire engines and big trucks they made a v12 version. The block was cast as a 12 and then the v6 parts put on it. 4 v6 heads, valve covers, exhaust manifolds,  etc. Very unique. If I ever finish the 500 projects I have started I would like to do one in 1/5 scale.


Thanks to all for your suggestions.

I'm currently working on the CAD for a 1/3 scale 289 Ford HiPo V8. The crank and camshaft are essentially completed, and block is probably 60% finished. The complex detail at the front of the block has been a struggle using the source material I had available. George graciously sent me a full size SW model of the Ford 302 which has become invaluable in my effort.

I discovered a SW command that would allow me to scale George's model, and I considered just using it in its entirety. The problem is that a number of changes must be made to it in order to use practical size cutters on my Tormach. My goal is to let the machine do all the complex filleting and smoothing since I'm sure that, unlike George, I'd screw the thing up while attempting it with a Dremel tool.

In addition, early on, I made my block slightly longer than scale in order to increase the spacing between cylinders for a more robust head gasket. Although I could modify George's model for those same changes by modifying the full-size and re-scaling, it blew up with every change I tried to make. So, I've decided to continue with my original model and use George's model as my reference instead of those nearly useless book and Google photos I was trying to replicate. I'm still enthusiastic about the project and work on it each day. When the block is finished, I'll likely start making chips and launch a build thread although going back and modifying George's model isn't completely off the table yet.

I thought about including the CAD I've been working on as part of the thread similar to what Eccentric did, but my frustrating process has been so scattered and wacky that it wouldn't make sense nor be of much interest to others. - Terry


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## ShopShoe (Jun 28, 2022)

Good Choice.

I'll be waiting for the thread to start. As far as including the CAD: EVERYTHING you do is interesting.

--ShopShoe


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## ragnarok (Jun 28, 2022)

Late to the party, but here's my thought: Duesenberg straight 8, 420 ci, DOHC, 4 valves/cylinder, 265HP in 192-f***ing-8. If that's not enough challenge, it was supercharged in 1932 to 320HP. And if you're feeling masochistic, in 1935 tuned to almost 400HP with a custom dual carb "ram's horn" air intake setup. 

While I'm here I'd also add another vote for the desmo Ducati, and the reassurance that the CAD files would be fascinating, yes. Remember who your audience is.


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## vederstein (Jul 5, 2022)

I recently saw a video on YouTube about the Napier Deltic engine.  Fascinating.


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## animal12 (Jul 5, 2022)

I have a 1966 GMC dump truck with that 351 V6 & I was amazed when it I first drove it with 21,000 lbs  gross vehicle weight . I had  12,000 + lbs of gravel & it pulled it with no problem . I did use all 5 speed's & split the rear end  few times , but it didn't let me down .
animal


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## DiegoVV (Jul 11, 2022)

I agree with some folks that knowing your builds level, a good contendant would be a Napier Deltic, an amazing engine for an amazing builder....and a joy for the rest of the community.


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## Steamchick (Jul 12, 2022)

The Deltic class railway locos used on the East Coast main line in the UK were wonderful beasts! 
www.thedps.co.uk/deltic-history






						Deltic class locos - Bing video
					






					www.bing.com
				




What a sound as the engines roared when they went to full generation when pulling away with a dozen coaches behind...  I never saw them in action on boats. (What they were originally built for).

Another complex engine would be the Napier Sabre IIa and IIB engines: H-configuration, with sleeve valves. 








						Development of the Napier Sabre engine
					

Napier D. Napier and Son Limited was a British engineering company best known for their work on engines initially for road vehicles and later for aircraft. Napier and First World War aero engines N…




					engineersatwar.ww2.imeche.org
				




Enjoy!
K2


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## ranger (Jul 13, 2022)

Rolls Royce “Vulture”  ‘X’ configuration, 24 cylinders based on two RR  Peregrine engines using a common crankcase and shaft. Used on the Avro Manchester, later to become the Lancaster. Rare, only around 500 odd engines produced.


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## Steamchick (Jul 13, 2022)

How about a 250cc Honda 6 cylinder engine from 1960s?
In half scale, that would be around 57ccs!
K2


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## brotherbear (Jul 14, 2022)

Steamchick said:


> How about a 250cc Honda 6 cylinder engine from 1960s?
> In half scale, that would be around 57ccs!
> K2


Oh, thanks! Now I sit here imagining just what that would sound like. Aaughh


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## Steamchick (Jul 14, 2022)

Sounded pretty exciting in full size on the Isle of Man in the 60s - from the pre-hi-fi recordings I have heard! Much nicer than the Yamahas 2-strokes of the 1970s. Nearest road bike to the Honda 250cc six was a Kawasaki 250cc six - I think? Only went to 18000rpm though... Wonder what a half scale engine could rev at? - for piston speed limitations I reckon only double the road bike, so maybe 36,000rpm max?

K2


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## abby (Jul 15, 2022)

Mallory park circuit 1967, I was lucky to see and hear that bike in the race of the year , it was ridden by Mike Hailwood and he beat his old team MV Agusta with Giacomo Agostini riding the 500, It was a day to remember as sadly world champion sidecar rider Fritz Scheidegger was killed earlier that day at the same meeting.
Dan.


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## animal12 (Jul 16, 2022)

I had one of the posters of Mike Hailwood on the 6 cylinder Honda racer in my room when I was growing up . That bike was so impressive to a 9 year old !
animal


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## Steamchick (Jul 16, 2022)

Lucky you! Sad for Fred Scheidegger though... RIP.








						Fritz Scheidegger - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




K2


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## kf2qd (Jul 16, 2022)

a scaled Honda CBX engine.


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## Steamchick (Jul 16, 2022)

Back to the Honda 6...





						Hoinda racing 250cc six-cylinder - Bing video
					






					www.bing.com
				









						Hoinda racing 250cc six-cylinder - Bing video
					






					www.bing.com


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## animal12 (Jul 16, 2022)

Thanks for those , brought back some old memories . It's ironic that he died the way he did . but that has been the case for many other racers .
thanks
animal


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## Steamchick (Jul 17, 2022)

Perhaps another interesting engine would be a Ricardo Dolphin engine?
K2


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## gbritnell (Jul 17, 2022)

While attending shows where I exhibit some of my engines I am always asked about building a particular type of engine. When attempting to construct a somewhat accurate replica of anything the problem is having accurate dimensions to work to. Spending (in my case, non CNC) thousands of hours building an engine that has a generic appearance when a few more hours would produce a more accurate and recognizable shape requires having an original to work from or drawings that have already been completed by someone else. With several of my projects I accumulated many hours in disassembly of an engine or transmission, measuring,  sketching, converting the sketches into CAD drawings and then modifying those drawings into a workable creation that could be both functional and accurate. With Terry's project I was able to provide accurate dimensions from the drawings I had available from when I built my 302 engine.


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## Steamchick (Jul 17, 2022)

Do you post your drawings for others to make the models, perhaps for a small remuneration?
I believe that that output of anyone's work is as important as the model they show. Knowledge is the most precious legacy we can leave when we are gone, and all your drawing work is knowledge.
Keep up the excellent work.
K2


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## gbritnell (Jul 17, 2022)

I sell my drawings for what I consider a reasonable fee given the hours spent creating them. You also have to realize that my drawings are quite complex so the average machinist might have difficulty building a model from them.


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## Steamchick (Jul 18, 2022)

I'm glad! K2


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## Bentwings (Sep 1, 2022)

mayhugh1 said:


> Ok how about a 1/4 scale supercharged nitro burning model  top fuel 1967 era hemi engine   Operating 14-71 supercharger  more commonly called a “blower. “ no plans available.  Since these are “ dry block” no water passages needed. But probably could use a couple water passages for bench running  about 30$ a gallon for nitro  but it could run on alcohol  I YHINK there may be a plastic model available if you look far enough  my son has a real one so basic measurements would be available if necessary as well as pictures  if you really wanted a challenge he has a full 3 disc  centrifugal clutch and suitable bell housing  with Lenco 2 speed transmission. The engine  has complete “ bird catcher fuel injection
> I'm looking for plans for a next build that would be comparable in complexity to the Inline Six, 270 Offy, Knucklehead, Merlin, and radials I've built, but I'm not having much luck. I own a set of castings and the documentation that came with them for the Black Widow V8, but I'd rather build an engine from billet.  I've spent the last month or so working on SolidWorks models for the components of a 1/3 scale Ford Hi-PO 289 V-8, but all I have to work from are undimensioned photos from old shop manuals and 60's era hotrod books. Although I'm making progress, its a tough slog, and I can see my enthusiasm dulling before I get to the point where I can actually start making chips. I have access to the German 'visible -V8' plastic model of the Ford V-8 sold by Amazon, but it's turned out to be a disappointment and only useful for top level sanity checks. Does anyone have any suggestions? - Terry


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## Basil (Sep 1, 2022)

Terry, How about a big block chevy? I have never seen an accurate model of one yet.
I have many of them around and would be more than happy to help with measurements.


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## peterl95124 (Sep 3, 2022)

may I suggest a Duesenberg Straight 8 !,  I contacted Lou Chenot and he sent me all his CDs of original factory drawings that had been scanned by some students in a drafting and engineering class, I asked him if I should keep them private and he said heck no they should be public domain.

if you start googling duesenberg engine you'll probably fall in love with it like I did, not only is it beautiful, it was the first 4-valves-per-cylinder, dual overhead cam, engine in america, which  IIUC correctly didn't happen again for half a century, way ahead of its time, so I consider it to be historically significant on top of beautiful.

somehow I wasn't in the mood for 32 valves, etc, so I'm currently working on a "Duesenberg Straight 4", probably a mistake, but I've already machined the case and head so will finish it anyway.  BTW I finally chose 1:4 scale after much thought about valve size and squeezing them into a head, Chenot choose 1:6, but everything's so small its a non-starter for me.


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## Wikiwiki1 (Oct 20, 2022)

mayhugh1 said:


> I'm looking for plans for a next build that would be comparable in complexity to the Inline Six, 270 Offy, Knucklehead, Merlin, and radials I've built, but I'm not having much luck. I own a set of castings and the documentation that came with them for the Black Widow V8, but I'd rather build an engine from billet.  I've spent the last month or so working on SolidWorks models for the components of a 1/3 scale Ford Hi-PO 289 V-8, but all I have to work from are undimensioned photos from old shop manuals and 60's era hotrod books. Although I'm making progress, its a tough slog, and I can see my enthusiasm dulling before I get to the point where I can actually start making chips. I have access to the German 'visible -V8' plastic model of the Ford V-8 sold by Amazon, but it's turned out to be a disappointment and only useful for top level sanity checks. Does anyone have any suggestions? - Terry


Hey Terry, This might be a little late but there is a book called "Ford Small Block Engine Parts Interchange" The last few pages are dimensioned drawings of the Ford small block, heads, crank.
I used them when I modified two Ford 289's into a V12 configuration (full size)..... (Yes it runs)

Brent


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## stevehuckss396 (Oct 21, 2022)

Wikiwiki1 said:


> I used them when I modified two Ford 289's into a V12 configuration (full size)..... (Yes it runs)
> 
> Brent




PICTURES?


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## Wikiwiki1 (Oct 21, 2022)

stevehuckss396 said:


> PICTURES?



Here's some  youtube vid's showing it.  I tried to build a little demon but I guess I don't have the skills to make all those little parts. I had several ford v8's around so I used as many ford parts as possible so I gave this a shot. 3 year build.  Maybe I'll dust off that little demon and see where it goes. It might be fun to build a scale engine of this v12. Hmmm?





Sorry, Don't mean to hijack the thread.

Brent


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## a41capt (Oct 22, 2022)

Wikiwiki1 said:


> Here's some  youtube vid's showing it.  I tried to build a little demon but I guess I don't have the skills to make all those little parts. I had several ford v8's around so I used as many ford parts as possible so I gave this a shot. 3 year build.  Maybe I'll dust off that little demon and see where it goes. It might be fun to build a scale engine of this v12. Hmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, wow, wow, and WOW! Amazing bit of work, and I’ll bet the crankshaft and camshaft were no joy to produce either!  Biggest damn model engine I think I’ve ever seen!!!!

Thanks for sharing,
John W


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## oldengineguy (Oct 23, 2022)

That is AMAZING. Wow wow wow!


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