# Toronto Team build



## xs4all (Mar 30, 2015)

i'm up for anything.

would love to build a couple 1" scale traction engines if anyone is interested (1" minnie perhaps).

i'm currently building vertical crosstube boilers and various engines (steam). my skill level is now at the point where i can do something of this quality and scale.

any suggestions?

gas engines? steam? beam engines?

lets' do it


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## TorontoBuilder (Mar 30, 2015)

I'd be open to a Toronto Team Build... 

I've less machining experience so hopefully nothing too complex for me.

I think something that is not too complex to build yet is visually very appealing so we cud perhaps show the results at a few events and try to attract more ppl from Toronto to model engineering and this site.


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## barnesrickw (Mar 30, 2015)

I have equipment, and a little bit of skill, but no idea what to build.  I would like to try some of the simple parts.  West Michigan is not too far from Toronto.


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## Jasonb (Mar 31, 2015)

Biggest problem with something like a traction engine is that a lot of parts need to be made to fit another, no problem if building it all yourself but if several people are all makeing bits then the likely hood of it all going together is low.

Also difficult to manage such a sizeable team build, past builds on here of simple wobblers have been hard enough to get all parts completed let alone a TE with its hundreads of parts and 1200hrs plus of work.

J


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## TorontoBuilder (Mar 31, 2015)

My brother and I are each building SandyC's 3" vertical boiler so a small steam engine to run with that would be a nice choice in my opinion. 

Or a Tiny IC engine...


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## TorontoBuilder (Mar 31, 2015)

barnesrickw said:


> I have equipment, and a little bit of skill, but no idea what to build.  I would like to try some of the simple parts.  West Michigan is not too far from Toronto.



At 43.2342° N, Muskegon is almost the same latitude as Toronto which is 43.7000° and you're on a Great Lake... so how could we turn you down?


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## charlesfitton (Mar 31, 2015)

If that member map worked, you could direct this at the local membership


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## barnesrickw (Apr 2, 2015)

Turn the clock back and Michigan is Canada. On the build by many people thing,  it's what I and most who have worked in a factory do.  Keep within the tolerances and all should be fine. Interchangeable parts and all that


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## barnesrickw (Apr 2, 2015)

Oh, and four out of five Great Lakes prefer Michigan.


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## Jasonb (Apr 2, 2015)

All very well saying work within tolerances but very few model engineering drawings have any tolerances shown. Also as a lot of beginners seem to be drawn towards team builds and they may not be able to hold those tolerances if they existed.

The problem I raised about the minnie is that it's all assembled on a copper boiler that will move and distort to some extent when its made so parts need to be fitted acordingly, the drawings also contain "check on assembly" against quite a few items so they could only be made by someone with all the relevant parts, same goes for other traction engines that I have made. An allowance will also need to be made for when the engine is running as the boiler (chassis) will stretch so again comes down to the art of fitting not assembly.

J


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 2, 2015)

barnesrickw said:


> Turn the clock back and Michigan is Canada. On the build by many people thing,  it's what I and most who have worked in a factory do.  Keep within the tolerances and all should be fine. Interchangeable parts and all that



My Mom's family was from France, they settled a land grant in an area of New France that is now in the US, but back then was all part of French Territory right back to Quebec City and beyond. They all spoke French up until my grandfather wouldn't teach his kids french during the McCarthy Era.

ahem, dont start anything over whats the most preferred Great Lake  at least we can agree its not Erie eh?


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## barnesrickw (Apr 2, 2015)

Size considered, Erie and Ontario could be considered pretty good lakes.  Great is a stretch.  &#128521;.   On the build, if it were organized that the same people do critical fit parts, i.e. Piston and cyliner.  Wrist pin connecting rod and crank by another, success may be easier.


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 2, 2015)

barnesrickw said:


> Size considered, Erie and Ontario could be considered pretty good lakes.  Great is a stretch.



Ahem, Ontario is 3rd deepest at 802 ft... which beat Huron's 750 and Erie's minuscule 210ft.

We may not get many members so multiple parts it will likely be...


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## barnesrickw (Apr 3, 2015)

If the parts are divided by critical fits, I think it could work.  As far as tolerances, we could figure out what is required and pencil them in.  Suffice it to say, I'm game.


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I'd be open to a Toronto Team Build...
> 
> I've less machining experience so hopefully nothing too complex for me.
> 
> I think something that is not too complex to build yet is visually very appealing so we cud perhaps show the results at a few events and try to attract more ppl from Toronto to model engineering and this site.




ok.

what sort of equipment to you currently have?

we'll take it from there. i have all kinds of plans. i don't mind doing the  complex stuff on my end


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I'd be open to a Toronto Team Build...
> 
> I've less machining experience so hopefully nothing too complex for me.
> 
> I think something that is not too complex to build yet is visually very appealing so we cud perhaps show the results at a few events and try to attract more ppl from Toronto to model engineering and this site.



ps. sorry for the delayed response. i'm not currently getting any emailed updates.


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

Jasonb said:


> Biggest problem with something like a traction engine is that a lot of parts need to be made to fit another, no problem if building it all yourself but if several people are all makeing bits then the likely hood of it all going together is low.
> 
> Also difficult to manage such a sizeable team build, past builds on here of simple wobblers have been hard enough to get all parts completed let alone a TE with its hundreads of parts and 1200hrs plus of work.
> 
> J



if properly organized and w/ the right builders, it's very doable indeed. difficult of course, but that's part of the fun.

for instance, i have no trouble building the traction boilers and that is a big part of it, etc. i realize what you're saying, but i enjoy the challenge.


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 10, 2015)

xs4all said:


> ok.
> 
> what sort of equipment to you currently have?
> 
> we'll take it from there. i have all kinds of plans. i don't mind doing the  complex stuff on my end



I have a CT041 12 x 37 lathe, and a CT129N mill... plus typical shop tools. I dont yet have my rotary table up and running for gear cutting tho... 

I too have some plans kicking around. 

p.s. my brother is happy to act as a team member on his own, so we can fill two spots


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 10, 2015)

xs4all said:


> if properly organized and w/ the right builders, it's very doable indeed. difficult of course, but that's part of the fun.
> 
> for instance, i have no trouble building the traction boilers and that is a big part of it, etc. i realize what you're saying, but i enjoy the challenge.



The hardest part of the traction engine is likely paying for the boiler metal! I'm trying to buy 3" copper pipe in Type L or type K but they want me to buy 12' length! Works out to about $450 plus tax...


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 10, 2015)

These do look very awesome... esp with these colour schemes


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I'd be open to a Toronto Team Build...
> 
> I've less machining experience so hopefully nothing too complex for me.
> 
> I think something that is not too complex to build yet is visually very appealing so we cud perhaps show the results at a few events and try to attract more ppl from Toronto to model engineering and this site.



well, perhaps you have something in mind....?  i don't want to necessarily drive this bus, i'm quite willing to to my part on any project. 

are you thinking stock build or casting sets?


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 10, 2015)

xs4all said:


> well, perhaps you have something in mind....?  i don't want to necessarily drive this bus, i'm quite willing to to my part on any project.
> 
> are you thinking stock build or casting sets?



Im pretty open, but we have few takers so far. Stock build might attract more interest. But we have a castings supplier in Ontario... and I've wanted to try IC engine build. 

Toss out ideas, see what sticks? 

Tiny IC
Howell V2
Grasshopper steam engine
Perkins
Morse Fairbanks 

or even a boiler build... with all the accoutrements


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

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here are two i've built recently


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

be glad  to show you what I've learned


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 10, 2015)

xs4all said:


> be glad  to show you what I've learned


We'd be very interested in that. I had so wanted to go to cabin fever this weekend... 

I need to find ME club in Toronto or surrounding area.


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1428693893.090131.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1428693955.050965.jpg


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> We'd be very interested in that. I had so wanted to go to cabin fever this weekend...
> 
> 
> 
> I need to find ME club in Toronto or surrounding area.




me too. there are a few clubs around, perhaps we could check them out.

where are you located?


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 10, 2015)

xs4all said:


> me too. there are a few clubs around, perhaps we could check them out.
> 
> where are you located?



Scarborough, near border with Pickering. How about you? 

I'm always up for promoting ME hobby


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> The hardest part of the traction engine is likely paying for the boiler metal! I'm trying to buy 3" copper pipe in Type L or type K but they want me to buy 12' length! Works out to about $450 plus tax...




noble trade, right? 

forget that place and go to ponte plumping. he'll sell you much smaller cuts.


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## xs4all (Apr 10, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Scarborough, near border with Pickering. How about you?
> 
> I'm always up for promoting ME hobby



indeed.

i live at christie & st. clair.


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 10, 2015)

xs4all said:


> noble trade, right?
> 
> forget that place and go to ponte plumping. he'll sell you much smaller cuts.


I've done work for Noble trade, Im not a fan. I usually use Fulford supply, but everywhere now seems to not want to sell cut pipe. Thanks for the heads up on Ponte... that will be special trip terrible location to get to for me.


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## xs4all (Apr 11, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I've done work for Noble trade, Im not a fan. I usually use Fulford supply, but everywhere now seems to not want to sell cut pipe. Thanks for the heads up on Ponte... that will be special trip terrible location to get to for me.



i believe i paid $10 a foot for a six foot piece he just happened to have handy. 

for other metal supplies, i use onlinemetals.com.


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## tms6401 (Apr 11, 2015)

Toronto Builder, you might give these folks a call if you haven't already. They seem to be quite reasonable on other metal, and they have often cut me a foot or two or three with no extra charge.   http://www.metalsplus.ca/

Just a happy customer of theirs.

Tom


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## tms6401 (Apr 11, 2015)

There is a club in Toronto ... https://sites.google.com/site/tsmeweb/

I have been to a couple of meetings, but I am a bit farther away in Lindsay and don't drive at night.

Tom


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 11, 2015)

tms6401 said:


> Toronto Builder, you might give these folks a call if you haven't already. They seem to be quite reasonable on other metal, and they have often cut me a foot or two or three with no extra charge.   http://www.metalsplus.ca/
> 
> Just a happy customer of theirs.
> 
> Tom



Great thx for the tip. Its nice to have many alternatives. I live about 10 -15 minutes from a metal supermarket store, but they lack copper and grey iron... whitby isnt too far and its on the way to my fav cigar store.. so I'll check them out soon.


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 11, 2015)

tms6401 said:


> There is a club in Toronto ... https://sites.google.com/site/tsmeweb/
> 
> I have been to a couple of meetings, but I am a bit farther away in Lindsay and don't drive at night.
> 
> Tom



Thanks again Tom! I recall seeing this site but never made it out to a meeting. I'll have to soon. 

ps are you going to get in on the Toronto (and area) team build?


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## tms6401 (Apr 11, 2015)

I will likely have to pass on a project for the time being as I have some medical stuff coming up that will keep me out of the shop for a while.

Also, I have a 3 1/2" Britannia Locomotive on the go at the moment.

Tom


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 11, 2015)

tms6401 said:


> I will likely have to pass on a project for the time being as I have some medical stuff coming up that will keep me out of the shop for a while.
> 
> Also, I have a 3 1/2" Britannia Locomotive on the go at the moment.
> 
> Tom



Nice my brother Tom and I got interested in model engineering due to live steam locos like the Britannia.


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## xs4all (Apr 13, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I have a CT041 12 x 37 lathe, and a CT129N mill... plus typical shop tools. I dont yet have my rotary table up and running for gear cutting tho...
> 
> I too have some plans kicking around.
> 
> p.s. my brother is happy to act as a team member on his own, so we can fill two spots



rotary table is a must have for sure, but don't forget the indexing head for gear cutting if you're interested in that end of things.

i have cut gears and look for any excuse to do so, but not many of my current projects requires any gearing 

i have casting equipment as well.

what sort of things have you built ?


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## xs4all (Apr 13, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> My brother and I are each building SandyC's 3" vertical boiler so a small steam engine to run with that would be a nice choice in my opinion.
> 
> Or a Tiny IC engine...



let's have a look at this sandy boiler. perhaps i could help. i guess you'll need a steam engine to run if you're building a boiler.

perhaps a steam engine would be a could project?


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 13, 2015)

xs4all said:


> let's have a look at this sandy boiler. perhaps i could help. i guess you'll need a steam engine to run if you're building a boiler.
> 
> perhaps a steam engine would be a could project?



Yep... a steam engine wud be good. Im pretty open to engines but wud prefer slide valve rather than an oscillating engine


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## xs4all (Apr 14, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Yep... a steam engine wud be good. Im pretty open to engines but wud prefer slide valve rather than an oscillating engine



if we went w/ castings, we could build for ourselves and sell one to cover the costs. this is what i believe to be a good way to go about it. if there's 3 of us, buy 4 kits and sell one to pay for the kits (or at least offset the cost by a bit).

i'd like to build a Stuart 10D or a Stuart Beam engine this time 'round. if you're thinking bar stock build, perhaps we could go w/ one of the many rudy kouhoupt models.

what say you? perhaps you have something in mind....?


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 14, 2015)

The Stuart 10D will nicely power a model launch... I'd be up for that..


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## steamboatmodel (Apr 14, 2015)

Anyone interested in model enginnering is more than welcome to come out to any of the Toronto Society of Model Enginers. 
Regards,
Gerald.


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 15, 2015)

steamboatmodel said:


> Anyone interested in model enginnering is more than welcome to come out to any of the Toronto Society of Model Enginers.
> Regards,
> Gerald.



I was so mad to realize it was mentioned on here just after the April 10th meeting 

So into my calendar with these dates. 

May 8 
June 12 
September 11 
October 9 
November 13 
December 11

Meetings are held at 7:30 pm. in the DON MILLS LIBRARY at 888 Lawrence Ave. East, Toronto, M3C 1P6


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## steamboatmodel (Apr 15, 2015)

xs4all said:


> if we went w/ castings, we could build for ourselves and sell one to cover the costs. this is what i believe to be a good way to go about it. if there's 3 of us, buy 4 kits and sell one to pay for the kits (or at least offset the cost by a bit).
> 
> i'd like to build a Stuart 10D or a Stuart Beam engine this time 'round. if you're thinking bar stock build, perhaps we could go w/ one of the many rudy kouhoupt models.
> 
> what say you? perhaps you have something in mind....?



The 10D is a nice engine and one of the  TSME  members has some for sale, but a launch and boiler would be on the big side. What about the the Paddleducks engine it is 1/2 inch bore I think (I can post a link from my main computer if wanted I am on a tablet right now).
Reegards,
Gerald.


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 16, 2015)

steamboatmodel said:


> The 10D is a nice engine and one of the  TSME  members has some for sale, but a launch and boiler would be on the big side. What about the the Paddleducks engine it is 1/2 inch bore I think (I can post a link from my main computer if wanted I am on a tablet right now).
> Reegards,
> Gerald.



Id still like to make a Stuart 10D (model tug instead of launch  ) although the paddleduck is on my TDL. 

Do you have contact info for the TSME member's contact info?


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## xs4all (Apr 16, 2015)

steamboatmodel said:


> Anyone interested in model enginnering is more than welcome to come out to any of the Toronto Society of Model Enginers.
> Regards,
> Gerald.



i'll be there next meeting


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## xs4all (Apr 16, 2015)

steamboatmodel said:


> The 10D is a nice engine and one of the  TSME  members has some for sale, but a launch and boiler would be on the big side. What about the the Paddleducks engine it is 1/2 inch bore I think (I can post a link from my main computer if wanted I am on a tablet right now).
> Reegards,
> Gerald.



i don't recall mentioning anything about using a 10D for a launch. i don't think ppl use stuarts (other than the sirius) for this sort of thing....at least i wouldn't.

much better options out there for sure.

i am looking for a hull 36" or better for a project. i have boilers and engines, so i really just need a hull. perhaps you know of one?

i ask because your name suggests you may know a thing or two about this sort of thing.


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## xs4all (Apr 16, 2015)

TorontoBuilder said:


> The Stuart 10D will nicely power a model launch... I'd be up for that..




i wasn't aware you were putting together a steam launch. i wouldn't recommend the stuart 10's for that sort of thing.


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## Jasonb (Apr 16, 2015)

There is a well known design for a launch that uses the D10 but at 51" long may be a bit big as steamboatmodel says, its called teh "Wide Awake" steam launch. Ex member from here Ramon is making a very nice one at the moment. The stuart 10 range of engines have been used in many model marine applications over the years as have their larger engines in both model and full size.


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## TorontoBuilder (Apr 16, 2015)

xs4all said:


> i don't recall mentioning anything about using a 10D for a launch. i don't think ppl use stuarts (other than the sirius) for this sort of thing....at least i wouldn't.
> 
> much better options out there for sure.
> 
> ...



It was me who said 10D for a launch... but really I meant tug. Would you be interested in scratch building? If so there are many plans you can use depending on type you want to build.


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## Howder1951 (Sep 17, 2015)

Hello.
I am interested in diving into a build for the very first time. I am amateur with 12x36 Asian lathe, 3.5" Taig and Craftex round column mill drill. Could soeone on the string let me know if there is an opportunity to get involve with a build?
Thanks
Howie in MB


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## xs4all (Jun 9, 2016)

got a bit side tracked the last year. perhaps we could resume this thread and build something collectively?

i have yet to build anything IC, so i'd love to start there. i have so many plans, let me have a look and post a few of them.


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## chrispare (Jun 9, 2016)

Good idea on the ic. I would be interested.


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## steamboatmodel (Jun 10, 2016)

For those in the Toronto area the Toronto Society of Model Engineers meeting is tonight.
https://sites.google.com/site/tsmeweb/home
Regards,
Gerald.


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## xs4all (Jun 14, 2016)

hmmmm, not much interest here. i move on


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## xs4all (Jun 14, 2016)

chrispare said:


> Good idea on the ic. I would be interested.



hello.


where are you located? i'm in toronto


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## chrispare (Jun 15, 2016)

I am south of Hamilton ( almost Lake Erie)


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## Iampappabear (Apr 1, 2022)

Toronto builder John, do you know who built the middle Minnie?  having a completed my Minnie (really just painting to complete) I would very interested in how to procure a similar set of rubber tires.

Thanks in advance.

Colin


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## swarf (Jul 27, 2022)

I live in Niagara, unfortunately I don't use the handle "swarf" for nothing. That's probably what the end product would wind up as.


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