# Indian milling machines (and machine tools in general) - A possible alternative?



## Kaleb (Feb 16, 2016)

Although I have long been wanting to buy a milling machine at some stage, and have been keeping a look out to get an idea of what's on the market, I've recently been pondering an option that I had previously disregarded or overlooked. Could an Indian made machine possibly be a viable option? Part of this thought came from me recalling some such machines giving a first impression of being somewhat more robust and workmanlike than their Chinese or Taiwanese counterparts upon seeing pictures of them. 

Anyway, I decided to look into this, and found dozens of manufacturers going by listings on IndiaMART alone. Despite this, very few of then seem to list a sale price, quite possibly because they are advertising on a B2B market, but I did find at least a couple of list prices, which give me a rough ball park.

The first really useful results I found came from a company called Technomech based in the city of Rajkot in Gujarat. http://www.bandbmachines.in/milling-machines.html#vertical-milling-machines

The offering here that got my interest was their 0A horizontal mill which they quote at 80000 Rupee which converts to about AU$1630-1650 or so, which seems very reasonable given the specs they provide. Their No.2, No.3 and No.4 vertical mills seem to be fully fledged industrial machines and seem to be selling in the AU$4000 range. Again, this sounds quite reasonable for something this size. 

The only downsides that I can see from the info provided are that the top end spindle speeds seem a bit low, and that the horizontal ones use a Morse Taper spindle which can be hard to find decent tooling for at times, and I believe can slip under heavy load due to the lack of a positive lock.

http://www.indiamart.com/opsudyog/milling-machine.html#drilling-cum-milling-machine
Then there's a fairly sturdy looking mill drill from this company in Batala, Punjab. The quoted price of 50000 Rupee (AU$1020) again seems quite reasonable.

A lot of the other manufacturers I found seem to produce machines similar to these. So, the question is, are these Indian machines likely to be a viable option for the hobbyist? The larger ones are definitely a problem in terms of cost and the logistics of both transport and workshop space, but that is the case for any large industrial-scale machine tool.


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## Wizard69 (Feb 16, 2016)

I have no experience here at all with Indian made machinery.   Given that if you avoid the extreme low end Taiwanese machinery can be very good.   In the end you get what you pay for.   

The problem I see with Indian made hardware is the lack of established importers.  At least here in the USA, that is a problem as I simply wouldn't have the time to deal with the manufacture directly along with everything required to import something like this.   This is why I believe Chinese hardware is so popular even with questionable quality, there are many middle men that make buying easy.  

Given that I would suggest giving it a try if your bank account can take a hit from the unknown.   Just like business anywhere, when you deal with a new business there are always risks.   Take an approach that minimizes your risks.  

It is interesting to realize though that India has become sole supplier of some types of equipment.   For example fly presses and some old Diesel engine designs.


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## Hopper (Feb 17, 2016)

Pig in a poke, really. I know one guy who has an Indian-made New Enterprise lathe and it is as good as any lathe you will find in the average toolroom or machine shop.
But I have seen other guys receive rotary tables etc from India, and motorcycle petrol tanks, that are so poor in quality they sent them back - at considerable expense to themselves.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.


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## Sackett (May 6, 2016)

For what it's worth,I have two of the afore mentioned diesels. At best , hardly more than kits. The Indians seem in my opinion to be worse than chinese at machining and fitting.Both engines full of casting sand, metal swarf,,,nothing fits quite right. It seems to me if they can get most of the parts kinda bolted on, its good to go.Buyer beware applies here


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## kvom (May 6, 2016)

Aussies seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to acquiring machinery.  We feel for you.


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## mikelkie (May 6, 2016)

Take more time, save more and buy a used brand name, Colchester, DSG,
Bridgeport, Heron, Tos, Southbend,Weiler, Schaublin etc etc. Worth rebuilding too if need be


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## Blogwitch (May 6, 2016)

Not seen any Indian machinery here in the UK yet, but Arc Euro do stock their chucks and they are getting a good reputation for themselves for being accurate and well made, but about 50% more expensive than Chinese or Eastern European offerings.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...Chucks---Indian-Origin-Manufactured-by-Zither


John


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## Mechanicboy (May 7, 2016)

Blogwitch said:


> Not seen any Indian machinery here in the UK yet, but Arc Euro do stock their chucks and they are getting a good reputation for themselves for being accurate and well made, but about 50% more expensive than Chinese or Eastern European offerings.
> 
> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...Chucks---Indian-Origin-Manufactured-by-Zither
> 
> ...



John, you will find the Soba products from India in Arc Euro. I has Soba rotary indexing table. Not a bad product in my opinion.


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## Blogwitch (May 7, 2016)

You are quite correct Jens.

I have a 2" Soba tilt swivel vice which I bought about 12 years ago, and it is very accurate indeed, I use it mainly for precision grinding on my surface grinder.

I just mentioned the chucks because they don't seem to be stocked by any other model engineering UK suppliers, and they are getting a very good reputation for accuracy. Plus all the self centring ones have easily and cheaply availability of soft jaws, the easiest and cheapest way of obtaining super accuracy on a lathe, and if they were available when I was restocking up on chucks, they would have been the way I would have gone.

John


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## Nick Hulme (May 7, 2016)

I have 5" 3 & 4 jaw Zither chucks for my 30.5mm bore Super 7 and can't fault the quality for the price. 

 - Nick


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## jmshep (May 11, 2016)

Beware!
I clicked on the 'pictures' link on the first post and a pop-up came up demanding money and there was a countdown type ticking sound. I switched off straight away so didn't get all the details. Fortunately all ok on a restart. 

John S


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## Philipintexas (May 11, 2016)

Over the years I've come across lots of machine tools & components made in India. Based on that my rule now is DO NOT buy anything made in India....
The closest description I can come up with is "hand-made" by the village idiot.


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## Nick Hulme (May 12, 2016)

Philipintexas said:


> The closest description I can come up with is "hand-made" by the village idiot.



Ah, so you've only encountered the "Premium Brands! 


 - Nick


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## 1dbweldor (May 12, 2016)

A few years back I was in the market for a new mill. I went to the local DGI supplier for inserts, while I was waiting for things to be gathered up I was looking at the new equipment for sale. They had a nice looking mill trying to get my attention. Salesman came over and offered to sell at a reasonable price(so I thought). I ask "Where is it made", no response. He keeps trying to sell me on it. Several more times asking "Where is it made"?, then finally it came out INDIA. No thanks, He asks why not, I tell him there is no metal in the ways. He wants to argue, so I told him to get a screwdriver and scratch the ways and tell me how much metal he sees. Needless to say I did not buy this equipment from them.
 Be careful with the foreign stuff, looks can be deceiving.


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## Nick Hulme (May 14, 2016)

1dbweldor said:


> I tell him there is no metal in the ways.



So I tell him it's a nice ramble but there's no clarity of detail in his post ;-) 
So it was "nice looking" but was made of sawdust, wood shavings and epoxy, or what? 
Give us a clue 

 - Nick


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## 1dbweldor (May 15, 2016)

Nick 
The paint looked good, but with a lot of filler underneath, The metal ways were shiny, The controls were clean, The handles were nice and smooth. But in my experience with metals from around the world, when the name INDIA came up the game was over. Some countries have excellent metallurgists and metals. Other countries, not so much. India is a not so much country.
 The OP would be better off saving a little more money and buying from a sound reputable company.


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## goldstar31 (May 15, 2016)

Au Contraire! Actually if a little more research was conducted, it would be found that 'India' in the shape of Tata Steel is causing great grief to English and Welsh Steel making. Obviously, we are not able to finance our own basic industries without help from what were our colonies. We Limeys, can't produce machine tools to compete with those from elsewhere. Probably, the good old US of A is not much better. 

Perhaps the short sighted view on life is marred but it would be interesting to learn why one, whether one is 'American' or 'British' has to consider buying outside one's own little plot- and then carp about it.

Me- Goldstar? that's the 'Star of India'  and 31 that' is older that the Royal Air Force. Norman is the inherited name from Indian sources.
All our yesterdays but today? Well, my in box is full of tempting investments from 'Far Eastern sources', my tempting investments nearer home are yielding what can only be described as a negative return.- on a working life now past.

OK, it is political and probably regarded as offensive to write but as far as 'my intelligence' suggests  good British and America servicemen and women are being killed or maimed by weapons which are being made 'in back street' machine shops. It obviously is good enough machinery and workmanship to achieve such horrendous results.

Don't always fall for the propaganda that is being fed to you.

Have a nice day!


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## goldstar31 (May 18, 2016)

Heady stuff- if you read today's commercial news.
First, the US has increased the flat steel taxes on Chinese imports. This is the stuff that makes cars and white goods like fridges and a lot of household items. That is 522%

However, read on- it never rains but it pours!. What is going to happen is an increase in interest rates- or so the hint suggests.

What does the US- or Little England do with Indian stuff? Bangs the price up.

Might I add-- understandably.

Norman


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