# Bench Top Surface Grinder



## Bernd (Feb 27, 2008)

Several years ago I aquired a small, what I would consider, bench top grinder with base cabinet. A friend of mine worked at a place that threw it in the dumpster. He rescued it, took it home and cleaned it up. After a few months he gave it to me since he didn't have a use for it. Now it has resided in my basement shop for a few years. It works OK but the spindle leaves wavy marks in the metal. I believe the spindle needs new bearings. Now comes the question. I've been trying to identify who made it. I know approximatley the where. All I have to identify it is 3 iniatals "TML". The where is New Britain, Conneticut. Below are a couple of pictures.











Anybody have any idea what company used the letters TML? 

TIA

Regards,
Bernd


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## Alphawolf45 (Feb 27, 2008)

Have you dressed the grinding wheel, an un-dressed wheel or a glazed wheel will certainly leave wavy grind marks.....? Good looking unit..I'd check them bearings every way I could imagine before I would change the bearings..And is the motor vibrating- is it original to the grinder..Get a dial indicator on it and push around on it.....You prolly know all this already,I just practicing my typing.....I dont have clue who manufactured it..You made out like a bandit..Hope it works out well for you..


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## BobWarfield (Feb 27, 2008)

Google "TML Surface Grinder" and a bunch of the hits refer to a "Harig/TML" grinder.

BW


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## Bernd (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks Bob. I did google but didn't use the paramaters "surface grinder". :-[ Don't know why. ??? Must be I had a senior moment.  ;D

Bernd

P.S. Just did a google and went to look what was there. Mostly forsale items. Nothing about the TML Company. That's what I'm interested in. A bit of history about the grinder. I know also why I didn't get any hits when I typed in "TML surface grinder". I didn't use capital letters on surface and grinder. Again thanks Bob.


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## Don Huseman (Feb 29, 2008)

I have the same grinder and the guy I bought it form didn't know anything about it.
I am grinding down tap shanks to heat shrink on 3ft drill rod. I need 3 ft long taps for my keel repair work. well if you have anymore than a .0002" difference you can crack the outer drill rod. I need to be able to read out to .00005. The dial on the down feed only reads out in .001. I mounted a cdco dro on it but again it only reads out in .001". Should I get a more accurate dro for the down feed. 
The next problem is that I am grinding a shank form .600 about to .4000+- .0001. what kind of stone should I use. I have water soluble oil cooling it but the mist coming off it is bad and the grit seems to get all over the ways. I am thinking of using a wet and dry shop vac to collect the mist and then put it back into the sump.
I am using a centerless punch grinder that I have to turn by hand. It take about 1.5 hr to grind down the shank. What can you tell me on how to grind the tap shank faster and more accurately.
 Don


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## Powder keg (Feb 29, 2008)

On those taps. Couldnt you grind them dwn for a light press fit and have them plug welded? I've done this for drill bits I've had to legnthen. It worked really good. Just a thought?

Have a great day, Wes


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## Alphawolf45 (Feb 29, 2008)

I need to be able to read out to .00005. The dial on the down feed only reads out in .001. I mounted a cdco dro on it but again it only reads out in .001". Should I get a more accurate dro for the down feed. 

.
 You can do your work using a dial indicator graduated to .0001 .


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## Don Huseman (Feb 29, 2008)

I don't know of any that read that fine and have any length of travel. Mybe .030" max. I gues I could get it down close and then use the indicator. I only have indicators the read to .0001 . they don't read finer which I think I need. I have mircomiter heads that read directly to .0001 I wounder if I could use that better. They have 1" travel.


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## Alphawolf45 (Mar 1, 2008)

I 'spect you considered getting a slip fit and silver soldering the tap to the drill rod..The tolerances that youre going for are tighter than I would be able to manage using my hand turned punch former under the wheel of my old surface grinder..Interesting, tell us how you finally accomplish the work.


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## Bernd (Mar 1, 2008)

Alphawolf45  said:
			
		

> Have you dressed the grinding wheel, an un-dressed wheel or a glazed wheel will certainly leave wavy grind marks.....? Good looking unit..I'd check them bearings every way I could imagine before I would change the bearings..And is the motor vibrating- is it original to the grinder..Get a dial indicator on it and push around on it.....You prolly know all this already,I just practicing my typing.....I dont have clue who manufactured it..You made out like a bandit..Hope it works out well for you..



I've tried a few of your suggestions. Right now the grinder is not a high priority. One of these days I'll take it apart. I do believe it's the bearings because when I shut it down I get sort of a rumbling noise like one would with worn bearings. That's also why it has a wavy finish I believe.

Thanks for all the suggestions though. 

Regards,
Bernd


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## Don Huseman (Mar 4, 2008)

I have made four taps. I have heat shrunk the taps on and then use a little braze about .06 wide between the tap and the drill rod. I have had one tap break lose when I drilled the tap hole about .010 undersize and relay put the power to it. I had a Friend of mine who is a engineer figure out how much torque I could put on it but I couldn't figure out what he was saying and was two embarrassed to ask for a simple explanation. 
I have tapped over a 100 3/4" holes with only one failure.


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## howiesatwork (Mar 22, 2008)

Don, 
If you made them an interference fit as you said, the brazing would be just cosmetic, wouldn't it? 
There has to be space for the braze to flow into. 
Not much, but a little space for capillary action to draw the liquid into the joint, istead of sitting on the junction outside.


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## Mcgyver (Mar 23, 2008)

Bernd. is that an oil cup on the spindle? there's a thread now on PM about drip feed grinding spindles, but if its a cup maybe not the same thing, except you might get some ideas on what oil should be used...ie the right viscosity might have a big effect

i agree with Alpha, try everything before messing with the bearings... for your pocket books sake! if its the bearings it might be cheaper to pull the chuck off and look for another grinder . Good point on the motor, afaik they put well balance motors on surface grinders so if its not original, try mounting it so its isolated from the machine, ie only connected by the belt??

might even the wrong wheel....when going from a wheel that works well on hardened steel to grinding mild steel i find it tougher to keep marks out of the work for example. 

lastly, balance the wheel. the smaller the grinder, the more this is important. 

you may be right about the bearings, but i hope not.


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## Bogstandard (Mar 23, 2008)

I think a few are getting to carried away with this bench top surface grinder thing. I noticed in earlier posts about accuracy on these machines.

They were designed for BASIC surface grinding, and that reflects in the build quality, ie, scales in 0.001". 

On mine, it is the same. If I take it very gently I can, by splitting the scale, get to within 0.0002". If you fart anywhere near it when taking cuts like that you will lose it.

If you need to get tighter grinding (and I don't see where, on the things we do) then you have to go up in the world and spend your pocket money on a machine that was designed to work in the ranges you are trying to achieve. There are limitations on all machines.

It is nice trying to achieve it, but don't get carried away with the almost impossible.

I have got my old lathe almost to perfection, but it has taken time, not money, to achieve. Nearly twenty years of tweaking. But there are still parts that need to be looked at, because wear is now coming into the equation.

Be happy with what you have, but don't go wasting a lot of time and effort (and usually a lot of cash), trying to make a machine do what it can never achieve.

Experience is what gets the better results, learn to use what you have to your best ability.

A surface grinder is nice to have, but not essential.

John


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## Bernd (Mar 23, 2008)

Mcgyver  said:
			
		

> Bernd. is that an oil cup on the spindle?



Yes it is. I used spindle oil from were I used to work. It made no difference.



> i agree with Alpha, try everything before messing with the bearings... for your pocket books sake! if its the bearings it might be cheaper to pull the chuck off and look for another grinder . Good point on the motor, afaik they put well balance motors on surface grinders so if its not original, try mounting it so its isolated from the machine, ie only connected by the belt??



I took a quick look at the motor mounting today. The guy I got it from mounted the motor on a piece of homasote. I don't think homasote is very good at damping vibration. Perhaps one of those new link belts may improve proformance. The motor looks to be an ordinary motor. I could pull it off and run it by itself and see if there is any vibration. I've tried pretty much all of the suggestions made in this thread to no avail.



> might even the wrong wheel....when going from a wheel that works well on hardened steel to grinding mild steel i find it tougher to keep marks out of the work for example.
> 
> lastly, balance the wheel. the smaller the grinder, the more this is important.
> 
> you may be right about the bearings, but i hope not.



I've also tried the diiferent wheels that I got with it and it didn't make a difference. But balancing the wheel is one thing I haven't tried yet.

Thanks for all the suggestions guy's. I do think it's in the bearings. Other than what ails it now it's ok to used for the occasional grind.

Regards,
Bernd


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## Bernd (Mar 23, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> I think a few are getting to carried away with this bench top surface grinder thing. I noticed in earlier posts about accuracy on these machines.



Your right John, they are getting carried away, but I did get some ideas that I hadn't thought of trying.



> They were designed for BASIC surface grinding, and that reflects in the build quality, ie, scales in 0.001".
> 
> On mine, it is the same. If I take it very gently I can, by splitting the scale, get to within 0.0002". If you fart anywhere near it when taking cuts like that you will lose it.



The height adjustment on this grinder is in .0005" inch. So, as you said above in the quote.



> If you need to get tighter grinding (and I don't see where, on the things we do) then you have to go up in the world and spend your pocket money on a machine that was designed to work in the ranges you are trying to achieve. There are limitations on all machines.
> 
> It is nice trying to achieve it, but don't get carried away with the almost impossible.
> 
> ...



As you said above John, I'm using the grinder to the best of my ability. I use it to grind cutters for the lathe and such. I really don't need .0001" accuracy for what I do. My main concern was that noise it made when coming to a stop. I'll figure it out one of these days when I get a "round-to-it".

Regards,
Bernd


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## Bogstandard (Mar 23, 2008)

Bernd,
Sorry if it sounded as though I was getting at you, I wasn't.
In fact it wasn't directed towards you at all, but at other members searching for elusive realms of accuracy, that IMHO they haven't a hope in hells chance of achieving.

To get back to your original problem with the 'bounce marks'. I went thru all what you are going thru, and I do sympathise with you.
I reset everything, checked out the bearings, preloaded them to the best of my ability without having a manual, even re motored it. All to no avail.
Eventually it dawned on me. Before this machine had come into my possession, it had stood idle for about ten years. The main drive belt had during this time taken on a 'set', even though it looked brand new, it had a couple of undetectable 'lumps' in it where it had sat around the pulleys. Once it had been changed for a new linked belt, the problems miraculously disappeared. I am not saying that this is your source of the problem, but it might be an area to look at.

John


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## Bernd (Mar 24, 2008)

Bogstandard  said:
			
		

> Bernd,
> Sorry if it sounded as though I was getting at you, I wasn't.
> In fact it wasn't directed towards you at all, but at other members searching for elusive realms of accuracy, that IMHO they haven't a hope in hells chance of achieving.



You weren't getting at me at all. It wasn't taken like that at all. I value your input very much. I guess I just didn't type the words properly.



> The main drive belt had during this time taken on a 'set', even though it looked brand new, it had a couple of undetectable 'lumps' in it where it had sat around the pulleys.
> John



You've just given me another cheap thing to do. I'll change the belt to one of those link belts and see if that makes a difference. But I still think it's the bearings to some extent. It's hard to describe exactly when the nosie happens and what it sounds like without going into great detail. I kind of like problem solving like this because once it's fixed it'll give a great feeling of satisfaction, if I can't find a solution ,at least I'll be able to say I tried. Thanks John.

Regards,
Bernd


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## Seanie (Mar 29, 2008)

They threw _that _ in the skip??

I've gotten an arc welder & a motorcycle from the tip, it's amazing what people will throw away....


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## Bernd (Mar 31, 2008)

Seanie  said:
			
		

> They threw _that _ in the skip??
> 
> I've gotten an arc welder & a motorcycle from the tip, it's amazing what people will throw away....



Yes, that they did. probably cheaper for them than to fix it. Glad my buddy dug it out, cleaned it up and then gave it to me. Great way to get machines.

Bernd


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## nkalbrr (Apr 24, 2008)

So what's the status of the grinder?.I have never found anything of value in a dumpster


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## Bernd (Apr 24, 2008)

nkalbrr  said:
			
		

> So what's the status of the grinder?.I have never found anything of value in a dumpster



It grinds. ;D I use it for grinding tools. Works OK for that. I still think the bearings need to be replaced. Unfortunatly the grinder is way on the bottom of the list of things to get done. If ever I get to it I'll be posting the info.

Bernd


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